# Buying in Spain to spend most of the year there



## jamie192 (3 mo ago)

Hi all,

Just spent the last couple of hours reading people's posts and the information pinned on the forum. Especially reading people's experiences in gaining what I want to achieve.

So little background, I am from the UK, just turned 36, am single, no family left but have two labradors. Sorry, this is not meant to be like a dating profile! I was a commercial pilot until about 7 years ago when I moved into property development and management. I own my own 4-bed house outright in the Lake District. I also have a restaurant that I let out, a 2-bed flat and a 2-bedroom house (all in the UK).

Almost two years to this day I suddenly had Compartment Syndrome in my right leg and underwent an emergency operation called a Fasciotomy to save my leg. Don't google the operation if you're squeamish! I ended up staying in the hospital till Christmas Eve as I needed more operations so it was over two months and no visitors because of Covid at the time. Fast forward two years and I have something called foot drop and cannot move/feel anything below my knee which makes walking a tad difficult at times but I have learnt to live with it. Because of this, I decided to stop working full-time as a property developer and have pretty much retired (I do still do some part-time stuff but will explain about that later). I decided a few months ago that I am very bored here and instead of being in the UK I could live somewhere warm, by the sea, own pool and relaxed which is why I am here today!

I have looked at various visa/entry options and I do want to keep my mini portfolio of properties here but I would sell my main home and use the funds from that to purchase a property in the Andalusia region as I used to work in Malaga many years ago as a pilot. 

I was hoping for the Golden Visa once I found it but my house and savings are just under the requirement and I do not want to sell them due to the very good income they bring me so that's out of the question.

I couldn't find out that much information on the entrepreneur's Visa as that could be possible. I do some very part-time work doing Home Automation installs (not like Alexa etc but £15K+ for a 4-bed house) which I see as a viable business in Spain that I could do. I am not able to do property development anymore personally due to my leg but by forming a Spanish company and employing a Spanish electrician or two I could do what I do here in Spain.

The other option is for me to simply apply for the non-lucrative residency and go from there as I meet the criteria for it. If I was to go down that route would I be able to apply for the entrepreneur's Visa after? I would be looking to purchase a property straight away as I would be selling my main home.

So my questions are related to both the non-lucrative residency and entrepreneurs Visa but not at the same time. I would be quite happy not doing anything for the first year. 

How do I show my proof of future income, could it be my tenancy agreements? My commercial one is a 9-year lease and that alone covers the minimum financial requirements.

If I was to apply for the entrepreneur Visa how would I show it as a viable option? Could I show that I'm certified in the Home Automation business I want to do in Spain? It's not something you can just do, you need to be a registered dealer/installer for the equipment I sell. Would that be enough along with a business plan and capital to invest?

Can I apply for one of the above while I'm in the UK now? If so and it's granted for either I then can stay in the country for up to 5 years. Is that correct? I would not want to sell my house here before knowing I could move etc for at least 5 years.

I will probably have more questions but that's enough for now and I'm sorry for rambling on a little!

Thanks in advance

J


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

I would be better if you could make your point a little sooner, I was skipping over your post trying to find your question. 

Steve


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Sorry I know nothing about visas having moved here before Brexit, but I hope you get a more helpful reply soon.

Have you considered buying or renting somewhere and spending shorter periods (less than 6 months a year) in Spain so you wouldn't have to worry about visas or having to become tax resident here?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> Sorry I know nothing about visas having moved here before Brexit, but I hope you get a more helpful reply soon.
> 
> Have you considered buying or renting somewhere and spending shorter periods (less than 6 months a year) in Spain so you wouldn't have to worry about visas or having to become tax resident here?


It would have to be less than 3 months or they would need to register as resident


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## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

snikpoh said:


> It would have to be less than 3 months or they would need to register as resident


They would have to stay less than 3 months at a time due to the 90 of 180 rule. However, I believe Alcalaina was suggesting two 90 of 180 stays during the year. This would result in staying just under 6 months per year.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jamie192 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just spent the last couple of hours reading people's posts and the information pinned on the forum. Especially reading people's experiences in gaining what I want to achieve.
> 
> ...


A NLV must be applied for in your country of usual residence, so in your case, the UK. Once you have the visa you can move to Spain & register for a TIE (Tarjeta de Indentidad de Extranjero). At the end of years 1 & 3 you have to apply for an extension, then after 5 years you are considered to be a 'permanent' resident.

Some people do have the extensions refused.

After the first year it is possible to apply for the conditions to be changed from NLV to self-employed or an entrepreneur/business visa. You would have to show a business plan.

It's also possible to apply to change to a 'golden visa' based upon property ownership of over 500.000€. No business plan is needed & this visa & the business visa afford more freedom.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

To be honest I wouldn't bother with the visa options seeing as you have had a major medical incident. 
For the NLV visa's you will need healthcare with no exclusions.

Id try to see if anyone will cover you first before going any further.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Did you didn't really expect people NOT to look up Compartment Syndrome/Fasciotomy?

Not nice at all.


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

MataMata said:


> Did you didn't really expect people NOT to look up Compartment Syndrome/Fasciotomy?
> 
> Not nice at all.


 I didn't, thankfully?

O/P seems to have a number of options but I can't understand why he wants to work as he doesn't appear need to.

I would be tempted to apply for the NLV and carry on a watchful eye on investments in the UK. I would consult a good tax professional to see if there's any wiggle room with his UK investments. 

If not, then the 90/180 day rule isn't the end of the world. There are some lovely places in Cyprus, Malta, Croatia, Eire and Turkey, to name a few, that would be happy to host the other 90 days if he didn't want to return to the UK.


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## jamie192 (3 mo ago)

Alcalaina said:


> Sorry I know nothing about visas having moved here before Brexit, but I hope you get a more helpful reply soon.
> 
> Have you considered buying or renting somewhere and spending shorter periods (less than 6 months a year) in Spain so you wouldn't have to worry about visas or having to become tax resident here?


Hello Alcalaina, thank you for your reply.


timwip said:


> They would have to stay less than 3 months at a time due to the 90 of 180 rule. However, I believe Alcalaina was suggesting two 90 of 180 stays during the year. This would result in staying just under 6 months per year.


Do you have any more info on that?


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## jamie192 (3 mo ago)

trotter58 said:


> I didn't, thankfully?
> 
> O/P seems to have a number of options but I can't understand why he wants to work as he doesn't appear need to.
> 
> ...


I dont want to work really but I like to keep semi busy. I will still run my UK business remotely which is a mix of commercial/residential Properties and what I would like to being over is the Home Automation Installing I do in the UK. I would like to branch out to Spain as its quite a niche business but I would be hiring Spanish Locals.


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## jamie192 (3 mo ago)

Barriej said:


> To be honest I wouldn't bother with the visa options seeing as you have had a major medical incident.
> For the NLV visa's you will need healthcare with no exclusions.
> 
> I'd try to see if anyone will cover you first before going any further.


Im 2 years post-op, can walk, run, drive, etc no problems. I have just had a lot on over the last 7 starting with redundancy as a Commercial Pilot due to cuts. Then I put my savings into the property business and built up a portfolio. The bad things are that I lost my Grandfather, Aunty, Mother and Grandpa at this time so I just wanted to get away for a few years. Oh, and then I was in the hospital for 2 months with my leg, physio, etc.

I don't have to see my vascular surgeon anymore, nor orthopaedic or Plastic surgeon and my GP will write a full letter. of clean health etc,


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## jamie192 (3 mo ago)

xabiaxica said:


> A NLV must be applied for in your country of usual residence, so in your case, the UK. Once you have the visa you can move to Spain & register for a TIE (Tarjeta de Indentidad de Extranjero). At the end of years 1 & 3 you have to apply for an extension, then after 5 years you are considered to be a 'permanent' resident.
> 
> Some people do have the extensions refused.
> 
> ...


That's perfect news. I wouldn't want to start the first year + anyhow as my income from the UK (which I currently pay tax for) is £65K+ with no mortgages or dependants etc. I have my own house which I selling anyway and buying a smaller property in the UK and ideally one or two in Spain. I then have my commercial properties which I will leave alone as they give me a nice steady income.

I looked into the golden Visa and that is possible now but I would lose the income from one of my commercial properties or I move to Spain without a 'Base' in the UK which would be a two/three bedroom house.

Cheers


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## jamie192 (3 mo ago)

timwip said:


> They would have to stay less than 3 months at a time due to the 90 of 180 rule. However, I believe Alcalaina was suggesting two 90 of 180 stays during the year. This would result in staying just under 6 months per year.


Where can I find more info on this please?


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

You can only do 90 days in any 180 so 90 in Spain then 90 outside the Schengen area then another 90 in Spain and so on. That is two stays of 90 days per year.

There is no way to spend over 90 days without becoming tax resident.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

MataMata said:


> You can only do 90 days in any 180 so 90 in Spain then 90 outside the Schengen area then another 90 in Spain and so on. That is two stays of 90 days per year.
> 
> There is no way to spend over 90 days without becoming tax resident.


Or 90 in a rolling 180. 

One week in Spain, one back in the UK, back to Spain for two weeks, then UK for two weeks for example.


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## timwip (Feb 27, 2017)

jamie192 said:


> Where can I find more info on this please?


Ministerio del Interior | Entrada: requisitos y condiciones


jamie192 said:


> Where can I find more info on this please?


Look at tab Autoricización de Entrada

RESTRICCIÓN TEMPORAL AL INGRESO DE VIAJEROS EN ESPAÑA (exteriores.gob.es)


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jamie192 said:


> Where can I find more info on this please?











Schengen Calculator - Calculate Your Legal Short-Stay in Europe


Schengen Calculator for Visa-Free visitors and holders of multiple entry visas valid for six months and with 90 days of permitted duration of stay.




www.schengenvisainfo.com


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## stevie.whitts (12 mo ago)

> There is no way to spend over 90 days without becoming tax resident.


Just to clarify this, I understood that after 3 months of being in a country you need to become a resident but only after 6 months of living are you then classed as a tax resident??


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

stevie.whitts said:


> Just to clarify this, I understood that after 3 months of being in a country you need to become a resident but only after 6 months of living are you then classed as a tax resident??


Basically yes. However, you could be classified as a tax resident as soon as you become a resident. All I know is that when I was investigated bt the tax man all the wanted to know was when I became a resident ( which was after 90 days in my case but at the start of January)


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## stevie.whitts (12 mo ago)

kaipa said:


> Basically yes. However, you could be classified as a tax resident as soon as you become a resident. All I know is that when I was investigated bt the tax man all the wanted to know was when I became a resident ( which was after 90 days in my case but at the start of January)


hmmm, so rule of thumb is resident after 3 months, tax resident after 6 months, but also as and when the Spanish authorities see fit. My plan is to be there for 4 or so months during the winter and then return to my current country of residence and work 6+ months there. Maintaining a tax status in my current country.

_apologies for hijacking the original post_


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

stevie.whitts said:


> hmmm, so rule of thumb is resident after 3 months, tax resident after 6 months, but also as and when the Spanish authorities see fit. My plan is to be there for 4 or so months during the winter and then return to my current country of residence and work 6+ months there. Maintaining a tax status in my current country.
> 
> _apologies for hijacking the original post_


If you register as a resident in Spain then that is your country of residence not the one you want to live longer in. Technically you can't be resident in 2 countries. In your situation you would submit tax declarations in both countries but use a double taxation agreement to reduce the amount.


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## stevie.whitts (12 mo ago)

kaipa said:


> If you register as a resident in Spain then that is your country of residence not the one you want to live longer in. Technically you can't be resident in 2 countries. In your situation you would submit tax declarations in both countries but use a double taxation agreement to reduce the amount.


Alrighty. I have residency in Finland. And at least my understanding from this article is that it is possible to have residency in 2 EU countries. Especially under the section of Long Term Residency








Already in the EU?


On these pages you can find general information on what rules apply if you are a non-EU citizen already in an EU country.




immigration-portal.ec.europa.eu





Have lived in Finland for 25 years, but have only recently applied for citizenship, with an application process of 1- 2 years.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

If you want to live in Spain permanently you will need to apply for residency within the first 3 months. After you have lived here for 183 days you automatically become a tax resident and are expected to pay taxes here in Spain. 

Steve


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## stevie.whitts (12 mo ago)

tebo53 said:


> If you want to live in Spain permanently you will need to apply for residency within the first 3 months. After you have lived here for 183 days you automatically become a tax resident and are expected to pay taxes here in Spain.
> 
> Steve


Yep. No plans to live permanently in Spain. Just winters there and then back to Finland in the Spring to run my restaurant and then return late Autumn / early winter. So typically 7- 8 months in Finland and 4-5 months in spain


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

stevie.whitts said:


> Yep. No plans to live permanently in Spain. Just winters there and then back to Finland in the Spring to run my restaurant and then return late Autumn / early winter. So typically 7- 8 months in Finland and 4-5 months in spain


You can not spend 4-5 months in Spain and say you are not permanently resident. After 3 months you must leave or register.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

If you do register in Spain then that is your tax base as far as Spain is concerned as it would be your centre of financial interest


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

kaipa said:


> You can not spend 4-5 months in Spain and say you are not permanently resident. After 3 months you must leave or register.


actually, if you read the article above, it states that you can - for the purposes of work etc.

The issue of where to pay tax is more interesting and I suspect Spain will win as that is where the money is earned.


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

kaipa said:


> You can not spend 4-5 months in Spain and say you are not permanently resident. After 3 months you must leave or register.


I think that the OP might mean that the 3 - 4 months in Spain is spread over the year and not in one lump.....

Steve


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

tebo53 said:


> I think that the OP might mean that the 3 - 4 months in Spain is spread over the year and not in one lump.....
> 
> Steve


I meant 4 - 5 months. (I don't know why you can't edit posts any more!!)

Steve


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

tebo53 said:


> I meant 4 - 5 months. (I don't know why you can't edit posts any more!!)
> 
> Steve


I've flagged the editing issue to the techies.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

If the person is an EU national then it is easy to stay in spain for more than 90 days without any hassle. The problem is you can't apply for residency then say Spain isn't your home. Firstly you will be expected to make a tax declaration secondly residency gives you different tax levels. If you are not a resident then you inform your bank who will apply a different account to you. Thirdly I know that some Swedes try and do this so they can lower taxes on their Spanish properties whilst also using the residency to make renting out those properties cheaper( resident reductions etc). There are other benefits to having residency which is why you can't claim ot if you don't use Spain as your home.


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