# separation advice.



## expatlady44 (Oct 18, 2009)

Hi, i'm looking for a bit of advise and i cant find any info on the internet. I am leaving my husband, and returning to the uk, but he has told me that he will not let me take our daughter with me. There is no way our marriage can be saved so i just want to make a new start, we have all been very unhappy for a long period of time.
Does anyone know if he can actually stop me from taking her back to the UK, she was born here but is british as are both me and my husband. I cant stay here in spain as there is no way for me to support us all which is why i need to return to the uk.
I hope someone can give me a spot of advise as to whether he can actually stop me, or give me a link to look into it. Thanks.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

expatlady44 said:


> Hi, i'm looking for a bit of advise and i cant find any info on the internet. I am leaving my husband, and returning to the uk, but he has told me that he will not let me take our daughter with me. There is no way our marriage can be saved so i just want to make a new start, we have all been very unhappy for a long period of time.
> Does anyone know if he can actually stop me from taking her back to the UK, she was born here but is british as are both me and my husband. I cant stay here in spain as there is no way for me to support us all which is why i need to return to the uk.
> I hope someone can give me a spot of advise as to whether he can actually stop me, or give me a link to look into it. Thanks.



wow, what a potential nightmare for you! I think you're gonna need legal advise. 

My thoughts on the subject would be, if your child has a spanish passport, then she's spanish, I dont know how old she is, but what does she want to do? does she want to leave Spain????
Are you entitled to maintenance from your husband to enable you to stay here??
I'm not sure you will be able to take her back easily and I think your husband has the right to insist she stays here as she's a spanish citizen, but I dont know??


If you go back to the UK, I assume you have family there who will support you so I guess thats why you want to return - we all have the need to run for home in a crisis???

See if anyone else can help you on here, eitherway, you must get some legal advise. Let us know

Jo xxx


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## expatlady44 (Oct 18, 2009)

Thanks for the reply jojo.
She's only a baby so hasnt got an opinion in it lol, she isnt a spanish citizen, she has a british passport, and both me and my husband are british, but she was born here in spain. I need to make a desicion pretty quickley as i am scared that he will snatch her, which i know is basically what i want to do but it really isnt possible for me to stay here in spain with her as i have no means of supporting us here.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

expatlady44 said:


> Thanks for the reply jojo.
> She's only a baby so hasnt got an opinion in it lol, she isnt a spanish citizen, she has a british passport, and both me and my husband are british, but she was born here in spain. I need to make a desicion pretty quickley as i am scared that he will snatch her, which i know is basically what i want to do but it really isnt possible for me to stay here in spain with her as i have no means of supporting us here.



Niether of you have the right to "snatch" your daughter, whichever one does that will be tracked down and lose everything, the EU is a small place and has reciprical rules governing this sort of thing! So it must be done correctly and legally


I'm not an expert, my only advise is gonna be useless to you at the moment and that is to try to come to some amicable arrangment with your OH, it would be cheaper, easier and less disruptive, but having "been there, dun it.." I know thats not gonna be possible, but you'll see what I mean in the fullness of time (my ex and I cringe at the ammount of money and heart ache our divorce cost us and now, we're really good friends, altho I still think his new wife is a silly cow lol).

There are a couple of people on here who may help with advise better than me, so hang on and see what they have to say!

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expatlady44 said:


> Thanks for the reply jojo.
> She's only a baby so hasnt got an opinion in it lol, she isnt a spanish citizen, she has a british passport, and both me and my husband are british, but she was born here in spain. I need to make a desicion pretty quickley as i am scared that he will snatch her, which i know is basically what i want to do but it really isnt possible for me to stay here in spain with her as i have no means of supporting us here.


what a horrible & difficult situation!


I'm not an expert either, but I'm sure you can't take her out her country of 'habitual residency' without permission from her father


you really need to see an abogado


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

My thoughts are with you - been there got the T-shirt and yes the blood does wash out! 
This sounds a horrible mess with a potential piggy-in-the middle situation. You need a specialist expat divorce lawyer - there is only one I know who is au fait with BOTH Spanish and UK law. Wooleys 

Andrew has a lady lawyer who I have been told is excellent in just such situations. 

All the best!


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

expatlady44 said:


> Hi, i'm looking for a bit of advise and i cant find any info on the internet. I am leaving my husband, and returning to the uk, but he has told me that he will not let me take our daughter with me. There is no way our marriage can be saved so i just want to make a new start, we have all been very unhappy for a long period of time.
> Does anyone know if he can actually stop me from taking her back to the UK, she was born here but is british as are both me and my husband. I cant stay here in spain as there is no way for me to support us all which is why i need to return to the uk.
> I hope someone can give me a spot of advise as to whether he can actually stop me, or give me a link to look into it. Thanks.


Hi Expatlady44,
Sorry to hear you're all in this situation. Must be hell to be going through this having moved away for a "bright new life".

Why don’t you approach the British Embassy in Madrid and simply reverse the scenario?

State that your marriage is at an end and that you and your husband are sure of this.

You are concerned that any day you might wake up and find your husband gone back to the UK with your daughter. Can he do this?

Conversely, if he gets “unreasonable” to the point of real concern in your opinion…. Could you simply take your daughter and go elsewhere – including back to the UK?

I know the question seems a little odd given your first concern (him taking her) but as the mother, do you have any more rights?

At least then you’ll get an answer regarding the legal stance.

I seem to recall a mother leaving the UK to go and live in Australia. The father was left devastated but there was nothing he could do. BUT, they were divorced and she had custody. Way down the process road for you it seems.

Good luck getting an answer but don’t do anything hasty. Europe is small and any knee jerk reaction now could cost you dearly during any formal process later.

Xose


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## expatlady44 (Oct 18, 2009)

Thanks everyone for all the replies.for now i'm going to try speaking to him again tomorrow, and explain why i cant stay here in spain. I think he knows this already, but he also knows there is no way i could leave my daughter here, but then by wanting her to be with me is doing to him what i dont want him to do to me if you see what i mean. I dont want to take her away from him, he is her dad and has done nothing wrong, he loves her and she loves him, but i havent even got any money to see a solicitor so the only option available is for us to come to an amicable agreement, so please wish me luck, it feels like the end of the world at the moment but i guess it would feel like that wherever i was, but its hard being here with no family or friends to turn to, i just need to get over this problem, and at the moment its just so raw for both of us.
thanks.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

If you wish I will ensure that you get at the very least the first consulation/advice at no cost. 

If you email me through my site I will find a way of them to contact you before you agree anything with your husband. An amicable agreement is always the best of course but you cannot make decisions without professional advice. I wish you well.

I am so sorry it has come to this.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

expatlady44 said:


> Thanks everyone for all the replies.for now i'm going to try speaking to him again tomorrow, and explain why i cant stay here in spain. I think he knows this already, but he also knows there is no way i could leave my daughter here, but then by wanting her to be with me is doing to him what i dont want him to do to me if you see what i mean. I dont want to take her away from him, he is her dad and has done nothing wrong, he loves her and she loves him, but i havent even got any money to see a solicitor so the only option available is for us to come to an amicable agreement, so please wish me luck, it feels like the end of the world at the moment but i guess it would feel like that wherever i was, but its hard being here with no family or friends to turn to, i just need to get over this problem, and at the moment its just so raw for both of us.
> thanks.


I haven't got any more information for you, but I have read through the posts and just wanted to wish you luck. What you said about not wanting to take your daughter away from him is a very important admission and leads onto the idea of an amicable agreement being the obvious way forward. I hope your husband will have reached the same conclusion


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## expatlady44 (Oct 18, 2009)

Gosh, thank you all so much, i expected a much harsher reaction from everyone to be honest, thanks for all being so understanding! I will let you know how it goes and if it doesnt go well then i will email you steve if thats ok about the abogado.
thanks again everyone, i feel a lot more positive now, and i know i have to do whats best for everyone in the long run instead of just panicking and doing something rash, i will let you know the outcome.


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

expatlady44 said:


> Hi, i'm looking for a bit of advise and i cant find any info on the internet. I am leaving my husband, and returning to the uk, but he has told me that he will not let me take our daughter with me. There is no way our marriage can be saved so i just want to make a new start, we have all been very unhappy for a long period of time.
> Does anyone know if he can actually stop me from taking her back to the UK, she was born here but is british as are both me and my husband. I cant stay here in spain as there is no way for me to support us all which is why i need to return to the uk.
> I hope someone can give me a spot of advise as to whether he can actually stop me, or give me a link to look into it. Thanks.


Hi there,
I really feel for you and hope you can resolve this. I totally understand having been in a similar situation.
Re the legal advice, if you can afford to get an initial consultation with a good lawyer that will help to begin with and give you more of an idea about what to do. Shop around, but many charge about 50E for that. Secondly, you can actually get legal aid, if you are on a low income or have no income. You need to go to your local Colegio de Abogados office which is in the local court (Juzgado). However, if you dont speak Spanish you will need someone to translate for you.
It does require you provide them with a mountain of paperwork, 6 months bank statements, proof of earnings and mortgage or rent receipts plus usual ID, passport, NIE, residencia, empadronamiento, certificate Catastral (from Town Hall). And all this does take time, but in something like this its worth doing. 

From searching the internet on the same subject, I discovered the European Comission website for civil justice, which is great. EJN - European Judicial Network in Civil and Commercial Matters
You can click on the Spanish flag and find out some good information in English about this situation. 

From all the lawyers I have seen, and there have been quite a few!, I understand that you cannot normally take a child out of the country that they are habitually resident in without the permission of the other parent. This is down to the Hague Convention (try to Google it for more info).

Personally, I know how difficult it is in situations like this when emotions are running high, but if it is at all possible (and I really didnt think it would be in mine), try to resolve it without it getting to the point where you feel you have to run. It took me 2 years to get an amicable agreement with my ex, but we did it, despite some very difficult feelings between us, and things are much much calmer now. Initially, it is difficult but if you can get to some sort of civil communication, it will make a world of difference in the long term.

We got our agreement ratified in court earlier this year, and if we hadnt been able to agree it, our case would have been contentious, which of course means that the judge decides, which is not always a good thing necessarily, which is another reason why its often better to get something you are both happy with.

Please feel free to PM me about this if you want.
Best of luck,
Caz


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