# Owe The IRS? Bill Would Suspend Passport Rights For Delinquent Taxpayers



## Organic D (Apr 3, 2012)

My wife has an old tax lien. As I read Senate Bill 1813 passed in mid March and the current FM3 renewal requirements she will not be able to renew the FM3 and will be forced to return to the USA. Any thoughts on this?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Organic D said:


> My wife has an old tax lien. As I read Senate Bill 1813 passed in mid March and the current FM3 renewal requirements she will not be able to renew the FM3 and will be forced to return to the USA. Any thoughts on this?


I'm confused. How would a tax lien in the US affect your wife's ability to renew her FM3?


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## makaloco (Mar 26, 2009)

Organic D only has four posts and can't include a link. I saw this one yesterday:
Owe The IRS? Bill Would Suspend Passport Rights For Delinquent Taxpayers « CBS Los Angeles
Apparently the bill hasn't yet passed in the House, but it would allow the US government to revoke or restrict the passports of those with large tax liens. Without a passport, one can't renew an FM3. The obvious solution is to resolve the tax lien.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

makaloco said:


> Without a passport, one can't renew an FM3. The obvious solution is to resolve the tax lien.


But you need to have a passport to get an FM3 type visa, so you should still have it when you renew. Unless, the passport expired before the renewal.


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## sag42 (Mar 22, 2012)

joaquinx said:


> But you need to have a passport to get an FM3 type visa, so you should still have it when you renew. Unless, the passport expired before the renewal.


Exactly. That's why it would behoove someone who is anticipating tax problems to renew their passport NOW.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

sag42 said:


> Exactly. That's why it would behoove someone who is anticipating tax problems to renew their passport NOW.


However, even if someone with tax problems has a current passport, if a House version of Senate Bill 1813 is eventually passed, then the passport could be revoked or restricted, making it difficult or impossible to use it to renew an FM3 or FM2 or whatever the latest reincarnation will be called.


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## Organic D (Apr 3, 2012)

joaquinx said:


> But you need to have a passport to get an FM3 type visa, so you should still have it when you renew. Unless, the passport expired before the renewal.


If it becomes law anyone with a tax lien will have their passport revoked so your first clue that you cannot renew your visa will be when the clerks tells you your passport is no longer valid. At that point returning home appears to be the only option. Unfortunately it will take a couple of years for my wife to work through the tax lien issue to finally get it removed (it is large).


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> However, even if someone with tax problems has a current passport, if a House version of Senate Bill 1813 is eventually passed, then the passport could be revoked or restricted, making it difficult or impossible to use it to renew an FM3 or FM2 or whatever the latest reincarnation will be called.


Who at Migration would check on this? What would be worse is to have the IRS place restrictions on your bank account or retirement fund. No fun being with a good passport and no money. Time to change banks to an off-shore one.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

joaquinx said:


> Who at Migration would check on this? What would be worse is to have the IRS place restrictions on your bank account or retirement fund. No fun being with a good passport and no money. Time to change banks to an off-shore one.


How old is this tax lien?

They do have a statute of limitations, you know.

I've never had one, but know people who have.


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## sag42 (Mar 22, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> However, even if someone with tax problems has a current passport, if a House version of Senate Bill 1813 is eventually passed, then the passport could be revoked or restricted, making it difficult or impossible to use it to renew an FM3 or FM2 or whatever the latest reincarnation will be called.


I doubt if the immigration clerks check that closely. Only the name and expiration date. Especially if you have had multiple renewals. They're not that concerned. That's what I love about Mexico.


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## makaloco (Mar 26, 2009)

joaquinx said:


> Who at Migration would check on this? What would be worse is to have the IRS place restrictions on your bank account or retirement fund. No fun being with a good passport and no money. Time to change banks to an off-shore one.


Sure, assuming the offshore bank would give you an account, in light of recent US crackdowns and reporting requirements. While you're at it, maybe plan on becoming a dual national and not paying any visits to US territory. What would keep the US authorities from confiscating passports at entry points? Since the bill hasn't passed yet, it's hard to speculate on enforcement, but I'd be concerned if I weren't in good standing with the IRS.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

If income is being garnished by the IRS I assume they won't make an issue of it. If she has no income and can't pay then I would worry


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## sag42 (Mar 22, 2012)

makaloco said:


> Sure, assuming the offshore bank would give you an account, in light of recent US crackdowns and reporting requirements. While you're at it, maybe plan on becoming a dual national and not paying any visits to US territory. What would keep the US authorities from confiscating passports at entry points? Since the bill hasn't passed yet, it's hard to speculate on enforcement, but I'd be concerned if I weren't in good standing with the IRS.


US authorities would confiscate passports at all US entry points. The best option is to stay in good standing with Uncle Sam and pay your taxes.


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## Uecker_seats (Jan 26, 2012)

Why not just pay the tax lein and try not to fanagle out of it?


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

You may have mistaken this forum for a political one.

It's a forum for people who live in/are interested in living in MX, to talk about the ins and outs of getting there and being there.


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## Uecker_seats (Jan 26, 2012)

IMHO, I say don't take the easy way or excuse, don't be a deadbeat. Pay your tax bill! Sounds like to me your going to see people coming up with $$$ real quick to get back to the USA when this kicks in. Good incentive!


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## JoParsons (Jun 25, 2011)

Yoohoo! I finally got my FM-3 Visa and am moving to Nayarit Sunday. Life is way good. Now, IRS may cancel my passport. I think they are sitting there, all day, just thinking of how to f**k with me. Oh well, I'm going to enjoy what I got while I got it.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

JoParsons said:


> Yoohoo! I finally got my FM-3 Visa and am moving to Nayarit Sunday. Life is way good. Now, IRS may cancel my passport. I think they are sitting there, all day, just thinking of how to f**k with me. Oh well, I'm going to enjoy what I got while I got it.


Congratulations on getting your FM3! Why would the IRS cancel your passport?


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## JoParsons (Jun 25, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> Congratulations on getting your FM3! Why would the IRS cancel your passport?


See above.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

You'll need it to renew your visa to stay in Mexico.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

You know, I've been thinking about this topic, off and on, and really, canceling passports is really an efficient and reasonable response to dealing with tax liens.

If someone owes, say, $5K in back taxes, the gov't will not, usually bother with a tax lien. But if they owe $50K or more, they will; the cost to benefit is much greater.

Having gone to the trouble of filing for and receiving that lien, it makes sense that they would not want the person who owes that money leaving the country till it's paid. And canceling their passport is a quick and inexpensive way to assure that.

I've never had an issue with paying my taxes; I'd rather have good roads, adequate police protection and education for kids, than not. 

Just thought it was only fair to point out my bias. That said, the fact that taxes will be owing on income is not a well kept secret.


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## Uecker_seats (Jan 26, 2012)

JoParsons said:


> Yoohoo! I finally got my FM-3 Visa and am moving to Nayarit Sunday. Life is way good. Now, IRS may cancel my passport. I think they are sitting there, all day, just thinking of how to f**k with me. Oh well, I'm going to enjoy what I got while I got it.


GAWD ***PAY YOUR TAX BILL, DEADBEAT!*** Sorry folks, but it pisses me off when someons slips off into paradise, while tax payers here at home have to bare the brut of your burdon. A bit IRONIC you don't want to pay Uncle Sam, but think you are entitled for all the benefits of a USA passport? Your screwed up, man! I hope a border agent nabs your ass when you try and come back.......And believe me, you not the only ex pat in PV there that exploits the benefits of their USA passport, this is just one example. Apply for a Cuban passport and move there~~ PLEASE


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

mickisue1 said:


> I've never had an issue with paying my taxes; I'd rather have good roads, adequate police protection and education for kids, than not.


Someone isn't because the US highway system is in disrepair, we're laying off police, and the schools are crap.


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## johnmex (Nov 30, 2010)

But what about the case of someone who lives and earns money outside the USA, with no US income? Why should they need to pay the IRS? Hell, why should they even need to file? Also, a passport isn't free, you pay to get it renewed.


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

johnmex said:


> But what about the case of someone who lives and earns money outside the USA, with no US income? Why should they need to pay the IRS? Hell, why should they even need to file? Also, a passport isn't free, you pay to get it renewed.


If I am not mistaken that is not what is being discussed here. It is a case of a person who owes IRS and is living in Mexico and is concerned about renewing their visa, at which time they might lose their passport. So the issue is really about their passport.

The deeper issue that seems to have attracted comments on this thread is that the person has not payed their tax lien which is a burden carried by other individuals that remain in the US while this party enjoys Mexico.

Whether the tax lien is warranted or not is another issue.


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## pappabee (Jun 22, 2010)

*Dreck happens*

I'd like to tell you all a true story about the very efficient US government. In 2004 while both my wife and I were working full time I received a direct deposit into my bank account of over $13000.00 from the SS (I was receiving my partial retirement benefits at that time). When I saw it I called my local SS office and asked them what was going on. I spoke to a "Mary" (the only ID that they have to give) and was told that it was due to an understatement of earnings in 2002 and I was due it. Not to worry just enjoy it..

So I did, paid of one car and caught up on all my bills. I even closed out two credit cards. Everything was fine until 2008 when the bottom dropped out of the housing market. My wife was a loan officer and I was running a day labor service.
We both lost our jobs within one year. We decided to move to Mexico and made the actual move in May 2010. I September 2010 I get a notice from SS that the $13000. was a mistake and I had to repay it within 60 days or they would take my retirement check until it was paid. 

To make the rest of this short, I did everything possible to try to make them understand that I was told by "Mary" that I could use that money. The response was, too bad so sad you owe, you pay. "Mary" was wrong. I said if I can't trust the word of a SS employee then who do I trust. I was told that there was nothing that they were going to do about it. I finally got them to accept $300 a month from my check until it's paid.

THE GOVERNMENT CAN DO NO WRONG, UNLESS YOU CAN CATCH THEM AT IT.

I don't mind paying my due but when the government makes a mistake you would think that they should accept some of the blame. Not the US (or most other countries either).


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

pappabee said:


> I'd like to tell you all a true story about the very efficient US government. In 2004 while both my wife and I were working full time I received a direct deposit into my bank account of over $13000.00 from the SS (I was receiving my partial retirement benefits at that time). When I saw it I called my local SS office and asked them what was going on. I spoke to a "Mary" (the only ID that they have to give) and was told that it was due to an understatement of earnings in 2002 and I was due it. Not to worry just enjoy it..
> 
> So I did, paid of one car and caught up on all my bills. I even closed out two credit cards. Everything was fine until 2008 when the bottom dropped out of the housing market. My wife was a loan officer and I was running a day labor service.
> We both lost our jobs within one year. We decided to move to Mexico and made the actual move in May 2010. I September 2010 I get a notice from SS that the $13000. was a mistake and I had to repay it within 60 days or they would take my retirement check until it was paid.
> ...


I totally agree with what you say Pappabee. I have experienced numerous episodes with Canadian government ineptitude over the years. A few of them involved myself and others involved my in-laws. Fortunately they were all resolved but not without difficulty.

They never want to admit their mistakes or culpability. I found that the supervisors higher up would support the decisions of those lower down and completely blow me off.

Through contacts I learned to go very high up the ladder and use that as a lever. I remember one instance when I was talking to a Director of Health Services who had several times backed up a lower echelon supervisor. She had blown off my letters and my calls. The last time I called she did the same again and I then said: "Well, then I guess I will take this up with ..... "(I then mentioned two individuals high up in the government ministry. She smugly replied that I would never be able to talk to them. I replied that through contacts I had reached out to them and both of them had promised to phone me within the next hour. At that she paused and then asked what it would take to satisfy me. I replied that she would have to cut me a cheque for the exact amount that was due my father-in-law (I had POA). She paused again and then asked if she did that would I drop the matter. I told her that if she promised to cut the cheque I would not take the two calls when they came in. She immediately agreed and I received the cheque shortly thereafter.

Lesson: Crap runs down hill and whereas this Director would support those lower on the ladder she was not sure what would happen when those extremely high up reviewed her dealings which could not reasonably be supported.

That is also why I ended my previous post with the thought that whether the lien was warranted or not was a different subject. Some times the government stance is not warranted!


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## terrybahena (Oct 3, 2011)

Uecker_seats said:


> GAWD ***PAY YOUR TAX BILL, DEADBEAT!*** Sorry folks, but it pisses me off when someons slips off into paradise, while tax payers here at home have to bare the brut of your burdon. A bit IRONIC you don't want to pay Uncle Sam, but think you are entitled for all the benefits of a USA passport? Your screwed up, man! I hope a border agent nabs your ass when you try and come back.......And believe me, you not the only ex pat in PV there that exploits the benefits of their USA passport, this is just one example. Apply for a Cuban passport and move there~~ PLEASE


Pretty harsh coming from someone without all the facts. Ever heard of the glass house?


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## makaloco (Mar 26, 2009)

johnmex said:


> But what about the case of someone who lives and earns money outside the USA, with no US income? Why should they need to pay the IRS? Hell, why should they even need to file? Also, a passport isn't free, you pay to get it renewed.


US citizens working abroad can legally exempt a certain amount of earned income if they meet certain criteria. Unearned income is generally taxable.

I'd never heard of a tax lien, but it's explained pretty clearly on the IRS website:
Understanding a Federal Tax Lien


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

makaloco said:


> US citizens working abroad can legally exempt a certain amount of earned income if they meet certain criteria. Unearned income is generally taxable.


You have to earn a lot of money while living overseas to have to pay taxes. This year I believe you can earn up to $90,000 before the IRS get its cut.


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## JoParsons (Jun 25, 2011)

The amount is disputed. They say I did it wrong. I've since taken early retirement and am trying to work out payments. I was tongue in cheek when I said I'd lose my passport. So, calm down and take a breath.


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## Uecker_seats (Jan 26, 2012)

terrybahena said:


> Pretty harsh coming from someone without all the facts. Ever heard of the glass house?


WTH did JoParsons post that for? Smoke and mirrors? Get a clue.....


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## tepetapan (Sep 30, 2010)

b


Organic D said:


> My wife has an old tax lien. As I read Senate Bill 1813 passed in mid March and the current FM3 renewal requirements she will not be able to renew the FM3 and will be forced to return to the USA. Any thoughts on this?


 I doubt there is much concern about this matter. How will the Congressmen, inside traders of Wall Street, lobbyists, CEO and owners of businesses and all the other cheats in the USA system of Multi million and billionares have any faith of going on vacation?
Sure, the computer program is to ignore the mega rich but what if..by a computer error,
some big dog gets his passport denied. Would you like to guess how many tax liens a guy like Donald Trump has at any one time?


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## tepetapan (Sep 30, 2010)

tepetapan said:


> b
> I doubt there is much concern about this matter. How will the Congressmen, inside traders of Wall Street, lobbyists, CEO and owners of businesses and all the other cheats in the USA system of Multi million and billionares have any faith of going on vacation?
> Sure, the computer program is to ignore the mega rich but what if..by a computer error,
> some big dog gets his passport denied. Would you like to guess how many tax liens a guy like Donald Trump has at any one time?


California tax authorities Anderson included in his list of the largest state tax evaders: the former star of "Baywatch" to $ 524,241 in state taxes.

Moreover, the website E! Online reported (Lionel Richie Owes IRS $1.1 Million in Unpaid Taxes - E! Online) Richie, a musical legend, should the federal government $ 1.1 million, and has been warned that there would be a lien on their property if not paid in time...translated.by.google


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## edub (Apr 10, 2012)

I love paying taxes! Especially when I know that my hard earned money goes to support people who choose not to work, make $1,000 per day selling crack and trade their food stamps for $0.50 on the dollar to the party store owners who turn around and use the money to build $5M lake front mansions, drive around in $100K cars and act like the most obnoxious @$$holes on the planet.

What's not to love?


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