# Coming to live in Spain



## pnwheels (Mar 3, 2013)

Hi guys we have been browsing the forum for several months and have decided to relocate to sunny Spain! Once we sell our UK business, we are coming. We intend to rent a property for a few months whilst looking to buy a place outright. We would then have an income of £800/month from rental of a house in the UK. Does this sound reasonable/ feasible? Be gentle with me- first post on this site!!


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

pnwheels said:


> Hi guys we have been browsing the forum for several months and have decided to relocate to sunny Spain! Once we sell our UK business, we are coming. We intend to rent a property for a few months whilst looking to buy a place outright. We would then have an income of £800/month from rental of a house in the UK. Does this sound reasonable/ feasible? Be gentle with me- first post on this site!!


Hi

welcome, you will find this site very informative, even if sometimes you hear something you do not want to hear!

We, like you, are moving at the end of this year. As you have been on the site I presume you are aware of the residency rules in Spain.

Proof of income - we were quoted 1000 euros per month for a couple 
Healthcare - If under state pension age that's an SI from Newcastle for 2 years and then private health care until retirement age.

Plus
You will - if here more than 90 days - become tax resident.

Having said all that as to how much you need is a bit like how long is a piece of string

Also I suppose like the UK it depends where you live - Others who already live there will be able to give you better advice.

Where are you thinking of moving to>


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

cambio said:


> Hi
> 
> welcome, you will find this site very informative, even if sometimes you hear something you do not want to hear!
> 
> ...


I think you have to sign on the foreign resident list after 90 days and you'll be a tax resident if you spend 183 days or more, consecutive or not, in Spain


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## pnwheels (Mar 3, 2013)

cambio said:


> Hi
> 
> welcome, you will find this site very informative, even if sometimes you hear something you do not want to hear!
> 
> ...


 Thanks for a prompt reply. Our daughter lives in Algorfa so we were thinking somewhere in that area. As the rental money will be our only income, I'm guessing we shouldn't pay any tax?? Who quoted you the 1000 euro figure?


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

We became residents in March of this year & were required to show, as a couple, 6000 euros of savings plus an income of 1200.00 euros - monthly paid into a spanish bank.

We registered in Fuengirola, Malaga district. 

Apparently, the amounts requested vary from region to region !!!


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

pnwheels said:


> Hi guys we have been browsing the forum for several months and have decided to relocate to sunny Spain! Once we sell our UK business, we are coming. We intend to rent a property for a few months whilst looking to buy a place outright. We would then have an income of £800/month from rental of a house in the UK. Does this sound reasonable/ feasible? Be gentle with me- first post on this site!!


When we first moved to Madrid about 10 years ago we survived on about €1000/month for about a year while making down payments for a property. We had no central heating and no air conditioning so we cut down on bills, but it wasn't fun. Of course we didn't run a car, didn't have internet and survived on Spanish terrestial TV (good for learning Spanish, but that's about it). Being able to cook helped, and we went out once a week. We got lucky in that we were given a second hand washing machine and it didn't break down. Even then we occasionaly had to dip into savings for those unexpected costs. It's not really something I want to go back to.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I think you have to sign on the foreign resident list after 90 days and *you'll be a tax resident if you spend 183 days or more, consecutive or not, in Spain*


in a calendar year, 1st Jan to 31st December


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

pnwheels said:


> Thanks for a prompt reply. Our daughter lives in Algorfa so we were thinking somewhere in that area. As the rental money will be our only income, I'm guessing we shouldn't pay any tax?? *Who quoted you the 1000 euro figure*?


that would be the foreigners office .....it varies a bit from area to area - the local foreigners office will give you the exact requirements when you go to register - our local one wants 625€ pp/pm paid into a Spanish bank or +/- 6000€ balance pp

you would have to do a tax declaration, but because of tax treaties with the UK, you usually wouldn't pay tax here, if you've already paid in the UK (there are some exceptions, due to slightly different tax requirements)


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I think you have to sign on the foreign resident list after 90 days and you'll be a tax resident if you spend 183 days or more, consecutive or not, in Spain



:juggle: Thats why I should not post after a Glass of Vino - Yep stand correcte



pnwheels said:


> Thanks for a prompt reply. Our daughter lives in Algorfa so we were thinking somewhere in that area. As the rental money will be our only income, I'm guessing we shouldn't pay any tax?? Who quoted you the 1000 euro figure?



That figure was quoted by a Lawyer dealing in tax residency, however from what I have read it really does depend on where you are. 

We are comfortable with the figures that we have and are will err on the side of caution with back up funds in the bank. I think, like a lot of things spanish, it is something you will not know untill you get here.


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## pnwheels (Mar 3, 2013)

Thanks for the various tips. Can anyone suggest the best Spanish bank to use? I have a UK Santander account but not sure if there is a better option?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

You could not survive in this área on 1000€ a month. Rent for a decent two bed piso will set you back at least €500 before utilties of at least €200 pcm.
When deciding on a reasonable monthly amount on which to live, you have to take into account insurances, repairs and so on. 
This month, in addition to our usual outgoings, we had our LandRover serviced - new brake pads needed- and it had its ITV. Cost: €510. Tax due this month another €100.
So no, that sum is not enough to live around here...but it may well be elsewhere.


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## JoCatalunya (Mar 16, 2011)

Not enough to live on here either.

If you want to live by the coast the rents tend to start around 600 euros and rising depending on how luxurious you want your home to be. 
Inland rental properties can start as low as 400 euros a month, but they are not brilliant and tend to be less than stellar when it comes to how well maintained they are. 

Basically think 500 euros plus and you are thinking on the right lines. 

If you are wanting to rent a finca, in the campo then yes, these tend to be cheaper. Especially if they are not connected to mains services.
However, you need think on that whilst it may be cheaper to rent in the first instance, it may work out just as expensive in the long run.
For one thing you will have to have a car. Now it may be that you were planning on having one anyhow, brilliant. However, is it just a family saloon? Are you bringing yours over? If so within 6 months (I think this is the case) you have to register it as a Spanish car, which can set you back quite a few hundred euros if you cannot do it yourself.
Second hand cars here are stupidly expensive and tend to be sheds from what I have seen. So most folk if they can buy new and hope it will serve them for whilever they are driving around, car insurance is slightly cheaper than the UK but depending on the car etc can still sting.

Where you live can determine what kind of car you have. Some places do have roads right up to the front door, some do have electric, water, sewage (mains) but these tend to be more expensive to rent. So if you go for the off grid properties you may end up needing a 4x4, which are more expensive to buy/run etc.

Whilst I live off grid, which basically means I do not have any electricity bills to pay I do have to buy in diesel for a generator which is there to run my washing machine and back up the power on less than sunny days. Yeah, we do get them. Despite what 'a place in the sun' shows. 
In our case we also have to truck in water. Sewage goes into a tank.

Now on average I spend 100 euros a month on water. 50 euros (minimum) on fuel for my generator. 
Then there is the added cost of getting into town for my shopping. 

In our village we have 2 buses a day. The first one is at stupid o'clock in the morning the second is at about 5 in the afternoon which basically means you are stuck in town all day and that is that. 
Add to this in our case the bus stop is over 2 kilometres from my house it means shopping is not fun at all. 

Once here you will need money for health insurance as your E111 will not cover you. 

Food in our region has gone up by 40%, fuel has sky rocketed, a bottle of gas costs 18.50 and is due to go up again at the end of this month to 20 euros a bottle. 

Taxes from the ajuntament can vary, but I have just had to fork out 120 euros on car tax, taken out as a lump sum.
Household insurance. Most of the insurers here look at you strange if you want more than 6000 euros contents insurance but who can insure their things for that. Not many folk I would say which means they start adding on the euros to your premium, again paid out in a lump sum once a year as is your buildings insurance.
Car insurance follows suit, one lump sum. (no monthly payments here spank you very much).

Personally we have less than 1000 euros to live on each month, granted there are 3 of us, but we struggle but then you may find it isn't a problem.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

I think the op was talking about selling their business and buying a place in Spain outright, so rental costs shouldn't be an issue. The other costs might be though. In fact many Spaniards do live off €1000/month, but it usually involves extended families living together under the same roof and pooling their resources. The problems come when trying to support an entire household on €1000/month. It can just about be done in towns/cities where you don't need to run a car. But if you aren't working and just sit at home in a boiling hot/freezing cold flat just counting the centimos, you have to ask yourself what's the point? Also if the pound crashes further you could find yourself having to live off even less.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Chopera said:


> I think the op was talking about selling their business and buying a place in Spain outright, so rental costs shouldn't be an issue. The other costs might be though. In fact many Spaniards do live off €1000/month, but it usually involves extended families living together under the same roof and pooling their resources. The problems come when trying to support an entire household on €1000/month. It can just about be done in towns/cities where you don't need to run a car. But if you aren't working and just sit at home in a boiling hot/freezing cold flat just counting the centimos, you have to ask yourself what's the point? Also if the pound crashes further you could find yourself having to live off even less.


Very sound advice. 
When deciding whether or not you can afford to live in Spain, do your calculations on a hypothetical exchange rate of parity. So £1=€1. Your £800 then becomes €800.

That should withstand currency fluctuations.

We did that when planning our move nearly five years ago when the rate was £1=€1.22.


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## pnwheels (Mar 3, 2013)

Thanks again for the wise words. Our intention is to rent for a few months, then buy a property outright (budget approx. 100000 euro). We were thinking of buying a Spanish registered car in the UK before moving, so our monthly budget is just for utility bills, running a small car which I can service myself, and groceries. We do not live extravagantly.


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## Guest (May 20, 2013)

pnwheels said:


> Thanks for the various tips. Can anyone suggest the best Spanish bank to use? I have a UK Santander account but not sure if there is a better option?


I usually put my hard won Spanish doubloon's whoops, I mean Euro's in Banco 
Sabadell. With their current account, so long as they see at least 700 Euro's
a month being credited into your current account. They waive the usual
administration charges. Whats more they might even pay 3 per cent cashback on
any utility bills you pay. Which I think makes them jolly decent, fine upstanding
chaps for a Spanish bank.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

pnwheels said:


> Thanks again for the wise words. Our intention is to rent for a few months, then buy a property outright (budget approx. 100000 euro). We were thinking of buying a Spanish registered car in the UK before moving, so our monthly budget is just for utility bills, running a small car which I can service myself, and groceries. We do not live extravagantly.


About buying a Spanish plated car in the UK...cuidado, mucho cuidado!
I bought such a car but from an established, reputable dealer who supplied all the required documentation to enable an easy transfer into your ownership.
You also need to check that there are no outstanding fines on the vehicle as you will be liable for them.

If you would like the details of this dealer, who is located in Hampshire but delivers vehicles Europe-wide - mine was delivered to Prague - pm me.


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## pnwheels (Mar 3, 2013)

Thanks MRypg9 but I don't have enough posts yet to p.m. I just thought it easier to buy the car here as I don't have NIE number yet, or will I still need this to buy one in the UK?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

pnwheels said:


> , running a small car which I can service myself,


Warning, new plans unveiled last week by the DGT (Spain's DVLA), if made law, would mean that motor vehicles would have to be maintained by an authorised mechanic and the service book stamped, otherwise the vehicle will not pass the ITV, equivalent of the MOT. 
Home mechanics are frowned upon by Spanish authorities.


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## pnwheels (Mar 3, 2013)

Overandout said:


> Warning, new plans unveiled last week by the DGT (Spain's DVLA), if made law, would mean that motor vehicles would have to be maintained by an authorised mechanic and the service book stamped, otherwise the vehicle will not pass the ITV, equivalent of the MOT.
> Home mechanics are frowned upon by Spanish authorities.


And I thought the EU imposed daft rules like this on the UK!!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Overandout said:


> Warning, new plans unveiled last week by the DGT (Spain's DVLA), if made law, would mean that motor vehicles would have to be maintained by an authorised mechanic and the service book stamped, otherwise the vehicle will not pass the ITV, equivalent of the MOT.
> Home mechanics are frowned upon by Spanish authorities.


And a good thing too.
A motor vehicle is like a loaded gun: dangerous when not properly maintained. We owned repairing garages in the UK and many many times had to put right botched jobs done by 'home mechanics', at the customer's expense, of course. Our mechanics were all qualified, experienced and well-paid and had access to the equipment required to do what are often complicated jobs properly.

We saw a lot of 'home mechanic' jobs when we lived in the Czech Republic. As most new and newish cars these days come with years of service agreements included in the sale price the kind of cars fixed by 'home mechanics' are usually older vehicles - precisely the ones that need professional maintenance. A bank clerk, teacher, bricklayer etc. is not a 'home mechanic'. He is an amateur who may or may not have sufficient knowledge to maintain a vehicle in safe condition. 

It is in the interests of public safety that ALL vehicles on the road are properly maintained by qualified people in properly equipped premises. If you can't afford a proper repair, you can't afford a car. I don't want to risk my or anyone's safety by driving a car which may be in poor condition.

As for a stamped service book....would anyone choose a car without an up-to-date stamped service book over one without one

So it's not a 'daft' idea, as far as I know this will be a rule applied all over the EU - I believe it already is in Germany.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

pnwheels said:


> And I thought the EU imposed daft rules like this on the UK!!


This is just one of several changes proposed in an attempt to reduce the average age of privately owned vehicles in Spain from the current 10 years to a target of 6 years.

The announced reasoning is to increase road safety and reduce pollution, the cynical amongst us think it has more to do with forceably stimulating the auto industry...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

pnwheels said:


> And I thought the EU imposed daft rules like this on the UK!!


For the reasons I have explained above , far from being a 'daft' rule, it is an eminently sensible one.

In reply to your question: no, you don't need a NIE to buy a Spanish plated car in the UK. AS I said, I bought mine when I was living in Prague, some months before I drove it to Spain.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> And a good thing too.
> A motor vehicle is like a loaded gun: dangerous when not properly maintained. We owned repairing garages in the UK and many many times had to put right botched jobs done by 'home mechanics', at the customer's expense, of course. Our mechanics were all qualified, experienced and well-paid and had access to the equipment required to do what are often complicated jobs properly.
> 
> We saw a lot of 'home mechanic' jobs when we lived in the Czech Republic. As most new and newish cars these days come with years of service agreements included in the sale price the kind of cars fixed by 'home mechanics' are usually older vehicles - precisely the ones that need professional maintenance. A bank clerk, teacher, bricklayer etc. is not a 'home mechanic'. He is an amateur who may or may not have sufficient knowledge to maintain a vehicle in safe condition.
> ...


This is not the thread to discuss this issue but I am in total disagreement with this.

I have had my motorcycle in Spain for 10 years and it has never set a wheel in a Spanish workshop, and it never will as I am far more capable of maintaining it than most pseudo-mechanics pretending to service vehicles whilst charging the earth.

I also have a 26 year old car in perfect condition which I have maintained perfectly since 2006 and now the government will force me to scrap it because the service book is not stamped? Over my dead body. I WILL drive it illegally if it come to it.

Each year both of my vehicles pass the ITV becasue they are in perfect condition to be driven. This measure has NOTHING to do with road safety and all to do with money.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Overandout said:


> This is not the thread to discuss this issue but I am in total disagreement with this.
> 
> I have had my motorcycle in Spain for 10 years and it has never set a wheel in a Spanish workshop, and it never will as I am far more capable of maintaining it than most pseudo-mechanics pretending to service vehicles whilst charging the earth.
> 
> ...


The latter is your opinion. You may well be an exception in that you seem to know what you are doing. But because you are an exception, that does not mean that everyone else is qualified to maintain a vehicle.

As for 'pseudo-mechanics' - that is the correct term for most amateurs. We did not employ anyone without the recognised qualifications.

As for your intention to drive illegally: you obviously want to make your own rules as well as maintain your own vehicles. Do you think that should apply to everyone? Can we all drive any vehicle we think roadworthy?

Most people have more consideration for the safety of other road users.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> And a good thing too.
> A motor vehicle is like a loaded gun: dangerous when not properly maintained. We owned repairing garages in the UK and many many times had to put right botched jobs done by 'home mechanics', at the customer's expense, of course. Our mechanics were all qualified, experienced and well-paid and had access to the equipment required to do what are often complicated jobs properly.
> 
> We saw a lot of 'home mechanic' jobs when we lived in the Czech Republic. As most new and newish cars these days come with years of service agreements included in the sale price the kind of cars fixed by 'home mechanics' are usually older vehicles - precisely the ones that need professional maintenance. A bank clerk, teacher, bricklayer etc. is not a 'home mechanic'. He is an amateur who may or may not have sufficient knowledge to maintain a vehicle in safe condition.
> ...


I don't think a missed service several years ago is likely to affect the safety of a car that has subsequently been regularly serviced and has just past its ITV. After all it is the ITV that is meant to identify dangerous problems, not the service history. There might now be cases of people who bought second hand cars, had them serviced regularly by a qualified mechanic, but now find themselves owning a worthless lump because a previous owner missed a service.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Overandout said:


> This is just one of several changes proposed in an attempt to reduce the average age of privately owned vehicles in Spain from the current 10 years to a target of 6 years.
> 
> The announced reasoning is to increase road safety and reduce pollution, the cynical amongst us think it has more to do with forceably stimulating the auto industry...


Again, that's your opinion. I'd like to see evidence supporting both viewpoints before I decide who is correct.
I hope this law will be applied with as little delay as possible to EU states such as the Czech Republic where the majority of vehicles on the road are ancient, not just old, and very many are used cars imported from Belgium, for some reason. It is commonplace for people to weld two halves of cars together...there are numerous breakers yards where you can buy the front or rear half of a car.
Very many people maintain their cars at home to save money. We saw the results every day - we had a wide splay frontage to our house and broken-down vehicles were constantly blocking our gates.

And even if it were about stimulating the auto industry...in the current crisis, wouldn't that be a good thing? After all, most people say that growth is the only way out of the crisis and reviving the car industry would certainly help employment.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Chopera said:


> There might now be cases of people who bought second hand cars, had them serviced regularly by a qualified mechanic, but now find themselves owning a worthless lump because a previous owner missed a service.


If this legislation goes through I would think it would be on a As From Now basis and not retroactive, and so you wouldn't "find yourself now owning a worthless lump because a previous owner missed a service."


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> The latter is your opinion. You may well be an exception in that you seem to know what you are doing. But because you are an exception, that does not mean that everyone else is qualified to maintain a vehicle.
> 
> As for 'pseudo-mechanics' - that is the correct term for most amateurs. We did not employ anyone without the recognised qualifications.
> 
> ...


You've misinterpreted almost all of my post.

I did't say that your mechanics were pseudo-mechanics, I said that most mechanics in Spain appear to be and believe me I've seen some downright dangerous bodge jobs and mistakes from garages that I would not have made.

Aswell as my "classic" car and my bike I also have a modern 5 series BMW which is maintained by these "mechanics", after one of the last trips to a garage I thought it was dripping oil so I looked underneath and saw that the front anti-roll bar had not been reconnected to the front wishbones! This is a schoolboy error for any competent home mechanic even.

Also the fact that my vehicles are perfectly maintained is not my opinion, the ITV is there to make sure that my vehicles are safe and they pass becuase they are. ITV operator opinion, not mine.

To say that I have no regard for other road users is verging on insulting to someone who takes more pride in their vehicles than most other drivers and even automotive professionals take in their work.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Chopera said:


> I don't think a missed service several years ago is likely to affect the safety of a car that has subsequently been regularly serviced and has just past its ITV. After all it is the ITV that is meant to identify dangerous problems, not the service history. There might now be cases of people who bought second hand cars, had them serviced regularly by a qualified mechanic, but now find themselves owning a worthless lump because a previous owner missed a service.


I agree. But we're not talking about one missed service. 

The MOT/ITV does not of course examine all possible defects on a vehicle. One of our repairing garages was an MOT testing station so I know its limitations. A responsible tester will point out and note any problems he feels could well manifest themselves in the near future but there is no way of compelling a person to rectify them.

I bought my newly-serviced LandRover Discovery five years ago, drove it to Spain...and forgot all about having it serviced! Result: new fuel injector needed!
It had its ITV and first service for five years last week and I found that the rear brake pads were almost non-existent! Gross stupidity on my part.

The fact is that cars can be loaded weapons if badly driven and poorly maintained. Overandout may well know what he's doing, I don't dispute that, but people like him are few and far between and you can't legislate for exceptions, sadly.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> If this legislation goes through I would think it would be on a As From Now basis and not retroactive, and so you wouldn't "find yourself now owning a worthless lump because a previous owner missed a service."


I hope so.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Overandout said:


> You've misinterpreted almost all of my post.
> 
> I did't say that your mechanics were pseudo-mechanics, I said that most mechanics in Spain appear to be and believe me I've seen some downright dangerous bodge jobs and mistakes from garages that I would not have made.
> 
> ...



I don't really know about Spanish mechanics but from what I have heard I would agree with your opinion of them. I have used Spanish garages in the past but now use an English LandRover specialist. I was told my LandRover needed work to the tune of 400 euros but didn't understand what was wrong and what was needed - although we owned garages I don't even know how to open the bonnet of my car. I had anything needed done for me.

You don't seem to appreciate that you are exceptional. I don't dispute that you know what you are doing. You obviously do. But surely you can see my point that there are many many more who haven't really got a clue and who shouldn't be allowed to service a bike let alone a car.

As I read your post I remembered that one of our best mechanics was the one, an older man, who had no paper qualifications. So yes, you are right,there are people capable of maintaining vehicles properly. But I'll say again, they are exceptions.

My point about disregarding people's safety was a general one and certainly not directed at you. But if this new law comes in and you drive your car....won't you have problems with tax and insurance?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> My point about disregarding people's safety was a general one and certainly not directed at you. But if this new law comes in and you drive your car....won't you have problems with tax and insurance?


OK, you are right and yes I probably would have trouble, but considering that seeing Local Police cars around Madrid with defective lights, even NO BRAKE LIGHTS is common, there is a limit to what the ordinary consumer should put up with before making a stand.

The ITV laws were reinforced a few years ago to stop unapproved home modifiactions, the so-called anti tuning law, and the principles of that law I agreed with because as you say there are too many morons putting V8s in old cars without a clue. But this is a step too far. 
If the ITV isn't sufficient to detect dangerous cars, do not put the onus on the general public to rectify that situation by spending more money. Fix the issue with the inadequate test procedures or put more police on the roads to catch the offenders who drive without ITV, that too would help employment and have a real effect on road safety!

The proposals that I have read are that it would indeed be retrospective, that's the point, they want old cars off the road to force people to buy new!

Oh, and I think I should say sorry to the OP for totally deviating from the topic with this converation, as interesting as it may be!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Overandout said:


> OK, you are right and yes I probably would have trouble, but considering that seeing Local Police cars around Madrid with defective lights, even NO BRAKE LIGHTS is common, there is a limit to what the ordinary consumer should put up with before making a stand.
> 
> The ITV laws were reinforced a few years ago to stop unapproved home modifiactions, the so-called anti tuning law, and the principles of that law I agreed with because as you say there are too many morons putting V8s in old cars without a clue. But this is a step too far.
> If the ITV isn't sufficient to detect dangerous cars, do not put the onus on the general public to rectify that situation by spending more money. Fix the issue with the inadequate test procedures or put more police on the roads to catch the offenders who drive without ITV, that too would help employment and have a real effect on road safety!
> ...


No, I think these are the nitty-gritty things people need to know.
I agree with you about the ITV test. Of course, as with the MOT, the test is as good as the tester...We once had an unannounced visit from an MOT Inspector, incognito, who asked for an MOT test on his car. The mechanic who did it clearly had an 'off' day as when the test was finished the Inspector 'revealed' himself and said the test had been unacceptable. We of course fired the tester but we had points on our testing licence.

I was not impressed with my ITV two years ago as after passing I noted the handbrake was as loose as before....

I wonder what you would have made of the car situation in Prague. There it is legal to tow a car on a rope. Once I narrowly averted a head-on collision on a steep winding road with a car being towed like that. I've seen cars driven with the windscreen totally smashed, hardly any visibility. At least half, possibly more, are old rust buckets. There are still Wartburgs and Trabants ion the road...

Statistics show that British drivers in the CR can expect to be involved in at least one bad accident in three years'driving on Czech roads. We were lucky, although a woman drove round a sharp bend straight into the bull bars of my 4x4. Her Skoda crumpled. I had flakes of paint on the bull bars, otherwise no damage.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Overandout said:


> Warning, new plans unveiled last week by the DGT (Spain's DVLA), if made law, would mean that motor vehicles would have to be maintained by an authorised mechanic and the service book stamped, otherwise the vehicle will not pass the ITV, equivalent of the MOT.
> Home mechanics are frowned upon by Spanish authorities.





Overandout said:


> If the ITV isn't sufficient to detect dangerous cars, do not put the onus on the general public to rectify that situation by spending more money. Fix the issue with the inadequate test procedures or put more police on the roads to catch the offenders who drive without ITV, that too would help employment and have a real effect on road safety!
> 
> The proposals that I have read are that it would indeed be retrospective, that's the point, they want old cars off the road to force people to buy new!
> 
> Oh, and I think I should say sorry to the OP for totally deviating from the topic with this converation, as interesting as it may be!


Yes, sorry to the OP.
A kindly Mod will probably make this another thread at some point...

So I still don't understand how it can be retrospective. How can they check if your car was serviced in the past or not? 

As far as the ITV goes, I agree, the ITV should be good enough to detect potentially dangerous cars, but the ITV as it stands, is pretty skimpy, isn't it?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> And a good thing too.
> A motor vehicle is like a loaded gun: dangerous when not properly maintained. We owned repairing garages in the UK and many many times had to put right botched jobs done by 'home mechanics', at the customer's expense, of course. Our mechanics were all qualified, experienced and well-paid and had access to the equipment required to do what are often complicated jobs properly.
> 
> We saw a lot of 'home mechanic' jobs when we lived in the Czech Republic. As most new and newish cars these days come with years of service agreements included in the sale price the kind of cars fixed by 'home mechanics' are usually older vehicles - precisely the ones that need professional maintenance. A bank clerk, teacher, bricklayer etc. is not a 'home mechanic'. He is an amateur who may or may not have sufficient knowledge to maintain a vehicle in safe condition.
> ...


In Spain what is a Service Book??

WE had our car serviced a couple of times by a garage in Alcaudete. We now go to the Citroen dealer and we are happier with the quality of service we get but still don't have a service record book but everything is on the computer at Citroen.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> In Spain what is a Service Book??
> 
> WE had our car serviced a couple of times by a garage in Alcaudete. We now go to the Citroen dealer and we are happier with the quality of service we get but still don't have a service record book but everything is on the computer at Citroen.


They will print off for you a record of all work done should you wish to sell the car. We used to do that if a customer requested it.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

:focus:

Getting back to the original topic!

pnwheel, you will have to give your finances some consideration.

It has allready been stated that you will need to be able to prove a certain amount of income/ savings, or the authorities will not allow you to register as resident.

As has also been stated the exact requirements do seem to vary a bit, but it seems pretty safe to assume that £800 per month will probably not be enough for two people. Presumably you'll have the money from the sale of your business still intact which will satisfy the savings part. Maybe you will have to channel some of it into your income fund to boost your monthly income requirement.

When calculating your monthly outgoings, don't forget to factor in additional costs for your UK house - insurance, management fees, ocassional trips to the UK to deal with any issues, etc - not to mention the possibility of their being periods when your UK home has no tenants.

Will you have sufficient savings to cover these eventualities? I think it all revolves around how much savings you have, as 800/ month is quite a low amount even if you don't have an extravagent lifestyle. Can you live on that amount in the UK, because it isn't really much cheaper to live in Spain - and the price of many things is increasing quickly.


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## pnwheels (Mar 3, 2013)

brocher said:


> :focus:
> Can you live on that amount in the UK, because it isn't really much cheaper to live in Spain - and the price of many things is increasing quickly.


Really? Uk council tax STARTS at around £1000, and here in the UK most folks spend 3/4 of the year indoors with the heating on. Fuel poverty is getting quite common here!


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## chris&vicky (Feb 6, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> our local one wants 625€ pp/pm paid into a Spanish bank or +/- 6000€ balance pp


Can this 625 euro be paid from anywhere? I was hoping to just fund a Spanish bank account from my UK account savings account. Also once you have proved an income for the residence certificate do you have to renew each year to prove income and healthcare?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

chris&vicky said:


> Can this 625 euro be paid from anywhere? I was hoping to just fund a Spanish bank account from my UK account savings account. Also once you have proved an income for the residence certificate do you have to renew each year to prove income and healthcare?


yes, as long as it's a regular transfer they don't care where it comes from

this ruling hasn't been in operation for a year yet, but afaik you don't have to renew on an annual (or any other) basis - certainly I haven't heard that the resident certs have any kind of expiry date


shhhhh - don't go giving them any ideas 

really the idea is to make sure that when you register you are financially self-sufficient

if at a later date you can't support yourself there's no state help anyway - so it's probably a moot point as to whether you can, as far as the govt is concerned


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

pnwheels said:


> Really? Uk council tax STARTS at around £1000, and here in the UK most folks spend 3/4 of the year indoors with the heating on. Fuel poverty is getting quite common here!


Yes,really! 

Certainly there's no council tax, but if you buy a house, you still have pay some similar taxes for water, rubbish collection, etc though they are usually a good bit less than our council tax.

You don't have to tell me how cold it is in the UK, I'm in the north of Scotland and right now seem to spend all my time indoors with the heating on! The thing is though, it gets quite cold in Spain in the winter and the houses are not designed for it, so you still need a lot of heating, and in the summer it costs just as much to try to keep the place cool with fans/air con!

Most folks seem to find some things a bit cheaper, some more expensive so that overall the cost of living isn't that much different to the UK.


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## Liz Stott (Apr 15, 2013)

Hi 

We moved over permanently in January this year, we bank with Santander and they have been extremely helpful with all the hoo ha involved with residency etc.,

At Fuengirola to get our Residencia we just had to provide a letter from our Spanish Bank stating that we received funds regularly from the UK or had a balance of at least 10,000 euros - you will also need an NIE number and your E111cards - although heaven knows why as once you are resident they are of no use - we had to phone DWP to request an S1 form which you then have to take to the local Social Security office in Spain- they then send it back to the UK for approval but this can take months - I would advise you to get the S1 form before you come over to put you one jump ahead.


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## Nikkinoo (May 19, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> yes, as long as it's a regular transfer they don't care where it comes from
> 
> this ruling hasn't been in operation for a year yet, but afaik you don't have to renew on an annual (or any other) basis - certainly I haven't heard that the resident certs have any kind of expiry date
> 
> ...


With the money pp pm does this include children??


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

brocher said:


> Yes,really!
> 
> Certainly there's no council tax, but if you buy a house, you still have pay some similar taxes for water, rubbish collection, etc though they are usually a good bit less than our council tax.
> 
> ...


BUT *there is* a Council Tax it is called IBI (Impuestos sobre los beines inmobilarios) and is a percentage of the property's catastral value. this year ours was €183 for the year, on top of which there is the quarterly charge for water, sewage and rubbish collection (all of which, for us, is much lower here for a five bedroomed house than it was for a Band B one-bedroomed flat in UK).


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## chris&vicky (Feb 6, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> yes, as long as it's a regular transfer they don't care where it comes from
> 
> this ruling hasn't been in operation for a year yet, but afaik you don't have to renew on an annual (or any other) basis - certainly I haven't heard that the resident certs have any kind of expiry date
> 
> ...


My query about renewal was really relating to healthcare. I am not at UK pension age so will not get any from Spain but will qualify for the 2 years through the S1 form. What puzzles me is if you do not have to renew then 2 years on from when your S1 form is no longer valid how would they know if you have healthcare?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

chris&vicky said:


> My query about renewal was really relating to healthcare. I am not at UK pension age so will not get any from Spain but will qualify for the 2 years through the S1 form. What puzzles me is if you do not have to renew then 2 years on from when your S1 form is no longer valid how would they know if you have healthcare?


well they wouldn't - although when your S1 expires, so does your access to state healthcare - you would only be issued a temporary health card in the first place

& 'they' probably aren't bothered if at a later date you can't look after yourself - 'they' won't be helping you........


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Nikkinoo said:


> With the money pp pm does this include children??


that probably varies as well - I do know someone who had to show 625€ each for herself & her teenager


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## chris&vicky (Feb 6, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> & 'they' probably aren't bothered if at a later date you can't look after yourself - 'they' won't be helping you........


Very true so I am not really sure why they ask in the first place then.


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## chris&vicky (Feb 6, 2013)

Allie-P;117344Malaga became residents in March of this year & were required to show said:


> I also registered in Malaga and what surprised me is for proof of health cover they were not interested in my S1 form, or any private health care, all they wanted was my EHIC card which is just a free card you get for emergency cover when on holiday. It appears in Malaga they are really not bothered if you have health cover, yet I thought that was a condition. They were also not interested in any regular income just 6000 euro in a bank account. It all seems a bit of a nonsense really especially as I had to queue for 2 hours having to put up with regular shouting and screaming in front as people regularly pushed in the front of the queue.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Yes that happened to us but when we registered at our local clinic. Not interested in anything but the EHIC card. BUT when you try going to the doctor there is a very good chance they will simply reject the card even if it is an emergency. Some hospitals near us are refusing to treat anyone who isn't Spanish unless they can prove they have the means to pay for treatment. Lots of coverage in the local English speaking papers about it, plus the eurocrats are also up in arms about it threatening Spain with all sorts of dreadful things, probably over lunch....


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## chris&vicky (Feb 6, 2013)

thrax said:


> Yes that happened to us but when we registered at our local clinic. Not interested in anything but the EHIC card. BUT when you try going to the doctor there is a very good chance they will simply reject the card even if it is an emergency. Some hospitals near us are refusing to treat anyone who isn't Spanish unless they can prove they have the means to pay for treatment. Lots of coverage in the local English speaking papers about it, plus the eurocrats are also up in arms about it threatening Spain with all sorts of dreadful things, probably over lunch....


I was not planning on trying to use my EHIC card I did not think it was valid anyway now I am resident. I have cover by way of S1 form. I was just surprised that the authorities in Spain want to see a card that is no longer valid for you. I do not see how any hospital can refuse you if you have cover from an S1 form as it gives you the same cover that any Spanish person gets.


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

chris&vicky said:


> I also registered in Malaga and what surprised me is for proof of health cover they were not interested in my S1 form, or any private health care, all they wanted was my EHIC card which is just a free card you get for emergency cover when on holiday. It appears in Malaga they are really not bothered if you have health cover, yet I thought that was a condition. They were also not interested in any regular income just 6000 euro in a bank account. It all seems a bit of a nonsense really especially as I had to queue for 2 hours having to put up with regular shouting and screaming in front as people regularly pushed in the front of the queue.




Strange, it not only seems to vary from region to region - but from person to person !!

They didn't mention our EHIC cards & were very interested in our SI's & even more interested in the amount of photo copies provided 

Thank goodness, it is all behind us !.......

I am, also, now in proud possession of a Spanish senior bus pass....


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

We are registered at a clinic, everything correctly in place but when we visit the clinic they still insist on seeing our EHIC cards even though we have all the correct paperwork etc...


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

thrax said:


> We are registered at a clinic, everything correctly in place but when we visit the clinic they still insist on seeing our EHIC cards even though we have all the correct paperwork etc...


Just tell them that as it's not legal to use your EHIC cards any more, you simply threw them away! 

That should focus their attention to using the correct paperwork.

It may also prevent you from getting bills in the future when they find out what you've been doing (not that it was your fault though).


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Just tell them that as it's not legal to use your EHIC cards any more, you simply threw them away!
> 
> That should focus their attention to using the correct paperwork.
> 
> It may also prevent you from getting bills in the future when they find out what you've been doing (not that it was your fault though).


But as they sometimes don't know the correct procedure, they might refuse to see you if you do that!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Just tell them that as it's not legal to use your EHIC cards any more, you simply threw them away!
> 
> That should focus their attention to using the correct paperwork.
> 
> *It may also prevent you from getting bills in the future* when they find out what you've been doing (not that it was your fault though).


_very _good point - people are being refused treatment with EHIC cards who are using them perfectly legitimately



Pesky Wesky said:


> But as they sometimes don't know the correct procedure, they might refuse to see you if you do that!



good point - maybe say the EHIC has expired (it will anyway) or that you've lost it - before it actually happens, to see how they deal with it




thrax said:


> We are registered at a clinic, everything correctly in place but when we visit the clinic they still insist on seeing our EHIC cards even though we have all the correct paperwork etc...



surely you have Spanish _tarjetas sanitarias, _thrax? they can't refuse to see you with those - & you ought to get Spanish TSE (EHIC) cards for any trips out of Spain, too

you really do need to get this sorted out if you don't have Spanish _tarjetas sanitarias_ - it could cause all sorts of problems down the line, through no fault of yours - just like the thousands who were told 'not to bother' submitting a tax return


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> good point - maybe say the EHIC has expired (it will anyway) or that you've lost it - before it actually happens, to see how they deal with it


I see this as a better solution, especially as you say, to do it before it actually happens, or before you really need to see the doctor in the hope that it gets sorted before you really need it.


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