# Refused visa



## shane147 (Oct 16, 2012)

Hi could you help . my wife was refused entry to the uk last Wednesday here are a few grounds why

Why didnt the officer believe my employment after providing 1 years bankstatements showing my employer paid in to my bank every wednesday and 1 years payslips + my P60 + employment letter + my employment contract .

Q3.
why the officer didnt believe the inherantince i recieved for my father after he passed away in 2011 of £31.035.10p in my savings account was not mine after o provided 1 years saving bankstatements and my fathers will and probate i cant see how else i can prove its mine ?.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

shane147 said:


> Hi could you help . my wife was refused entry to the uk last Wednesday here are a few grounds why
> 
> Why didnt the officer believe my employment after providing 1 years bankstatements showing my employer paid in to my bank every wednesday and 1 years payslips + my P60 + employment letter + my employment contract .
> 
> ...


Are you saying that your wife was refused a visa for the UK? If so it would be very helpful if you typed out the exact wording of your refusal letter. This will enable us to see exactly where the problem lies.


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## shane147 (Oct 16, 2012)

Ok I will do that thank you


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## shane147 (Oct 16, 2012)

Financial Requirements:
ECO Reasons for Refusal

"Your sponsor is not exempt from the financial requirement as defined by paragraph E-ECP.3.3. I am not able to take into account any potential employment you have available to you in the UK or any offers of financial support from third parties. In order to meet the financial requirements of the Rules your sponsor needs a gross income of at least 18,600K per annum. 

You have indicated on form Appendix 2 (Section 3.3)that you sponsor meets the financial requirements of these Rules under Part 3A category B.(salaried employment for 12 months prior to the application) and Part 3F category D(cash savings).

You have provided a letter dated 11March 2013 from your sponsor's employer, Mercom harrd ware which indicates that your sponsor's gross earings between 2 Feb.2012 and 31January 2013 were 11,804K. Under these Rules there is therefore a shortfall of 6,796 and that cash saving of 32,984(held for six months) would be required to meet the Rules.

I note that you have provided Lloyds TSB bank statements for your sponsor which indicates that he has had saving of not less than 30,766 K for six months up to 20 Feb. 2013. However, there is no actual evidence as to the source of these funds although I note that you have provided copies of Probate court proceeding in favour of your sponsor(dated 6 December 2011) but that this does not make any specific mention of funds to be paid to him if any. This fact fails to satisfy me that these funs are genuinely your sponsors to be used as he wishes or therefore that they meet financial requirements of these Rules.


Furthermore, I note that you state that you have 3000 in a HSBC Saving account. However, I note that the account balance was under 1600 on the 24 August 2012 and that you have therefore not held these funs for a minim of 6 months prior to the date of your application nor was the previous balance in this account sufficient to meet the requirements of these Rules.

In view of all of the above, I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of Appendix FM of the Immigration Rules.(E-ECP.3.1)

I note that your proposed accommdation in the UK with your sponsor is also occupied by four other adults and that all facilities are shared. I am therefore not satisfied that there will be adequately accommodation without recourse to public funds which you and your partner will own or occupy exclusively. I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of Appendix FM of the immigration Rules.(E-ECP.3.1) 

I hope this helps as I found it hard to understand thanks for helping


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

shane147 said:


> Financial Requirements:
> ECO Reasons for Refusal
> 
> "Your sponsor is not exempt from the financial requirement as defined by paragraph E-ECP.3.3. I am not able to take into account any potential employment you have available to you in the UK or any offers of financial support from third parties. In order to meet the financial requirements of the Rules your sponsor needs a gross income of at least 18,600K per annum.
> ...


Yes that helps a lot thank you. 

So the major problem here is that in fact you do not have enough savings. In order for savings to count they need to be held for a minimum of 6 months. Your ECO has stated that the first set of savings you needed had was £30,766 (most likely the lowest point in the past 6 months) and your second savings was £1,600 (the lowest point - August 24th), which means you only have a total savings of £32,366 and you required a savings of £32,984 due to your income shortfall of £6,796. I know it seems petty to get a refusal for a difference of £618, but UKBA enforce the financial requirements with absolutely no leeway in regards to discretion. 

Second issue is that the ECO doesn't appear convinced that the funds are yours to use. Hopefully someone else can chime in regarding what you can do about that seeing as I'm not very knowledgeable on inheritance and how to prove ownership. 

Last it looks as though the ECO is concerned about overcrowding. They say you and your partner will be living with 4 other people? How many bedrooms are there in the flat? There is a specific formula that UKBA uses to determine how many adults can stay in a flat without overcrowding. I'll see if I can find it. But unless your flat has 4+ bedrooms, I doubt you will be able to convince them otherwise. 

So the biggest issue is the savings. UKBA counts savings at their LOWEST point in the past 6 months before application, so that's where you went wrong. Unfortunately if those figures are correct then UKBA made the correct decision and as such, you have no basis for appeal. Your best bet is to wait until your savings show a more consistent or higher balance over the past 6 months, and reconsider you accommodation situation before re-applying. It looks as though you shouldn't have to wait long, as August 24th (your lowest point for your smaller savings is outside the 6 month mark now if the balance increased shortly after that. I'm sorry it wasn't better news.

Edit: Reading the ECO letter again it looks as though they state that there is nothing in your father's will that indicates that the money is left to you, can you confirm that?


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

Here are the rules for overcrowding:

Taken from: UK Border Agency | Maintenance and accommodation (MAA)

*A house is considered to be overcrowded if 2 persons aged 10 years or more of opposite sexes, who are not living together as husband and wife, must sleep in the same room. The Act also details the maximum number of people allowed for a given number of rooms or a given room floor area.

Account is taken only of rooms with a floor area larger than 50 square feet and rooms of a type used either as a living room or bedroom.

Rooms such as kitchens or bathrooms are excluded.

Under the Housing Act, the number of people sleeping in accommodation must not exceed the following:

Number of rooms	Maximum number of people allowed
1................................................................2
2................................................................3
3................................................................5
4................................................................7.5
5................................................................10
Each additional room in excess of 5........... An additional 2 people
*
If you had 4 other people in your house plus you and your partner, you'd need a house with at least 4 full bedrooms. More depending on the genders of your housemates.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

shane147 said:


> Financial Requirements:
> ECO Reasons for Refusal
> 
> "Your sponsor is not exempt from the financial requirement as defined by paragraph E-ECP.3.3. I am not able to take into account any potential employment you have available to you in the UK or any offers of financial support from third parties. In order to meet the financial requirements of the Rules your sponsor needs a gross income of at least 18,600K per annum.
> ...


Fair enough... you are aware that you need to show savings.



> I note that you have provided Lloyds TSB bank statements for your sponsor which indicates that he has had saving of not less than 30,766 K for six months up to 20 Feb. 2013. However, there is no actual evidence as to the source of these funds although I note that you have provided copies of Probate court proceeding in favour of your sponsor(dated 6 December 2011) but that this does not make any specific mention of funds to be paid to him if any. This fact fails to satisfy me that these funs are genuinely your sponsors to be used as he wishes or therefore that they meet financial requirements of these Rules.


Was there _any_ mention in your Father's will stating how much of a monetary legacy you were to receive from his estate? If so, are you able to provide a copy of the original will? Probate court is all well and good, but if you were able to/had provided a copy of the will, that would have been better.



> Furthermore, I note that you state that you have 3000 in a HSBC Saving account. However, I note that the account balance was under 1600 on the 24 August 2012 and that you have therefore not held these funs for a minim of 6 months prior to the date of your application nor was the previous balance in this account sufficient to meet the requirements of these Rules.


This one's the killer... the UKBA will only consider the _lowest balance in the 6 month period_ to be the balance on hand for the entire period. You may have started out at £3k at the beginning and at the end of the time being considered, but since it dropped down to "... under 1600 on the 24 August 2012..." the ECO will only consider the amount "under 1600" as the balance in the account for the entire 6 month period.

Has the balance gone back up to the £3k that you've been claiming? If so, the 6 month clock re-starts on the day that it reached that £3k balance and you can count 6 months from that day as a £3k balance, provided you don't let the balance go below that at any time.



> I note that your proposed accommdation in the UK with your sponsor is also occupied by four other adults and that all facilities are shared. I am therefore not satisfied that there will be adequately accommodation without recourse to public funds which you and your partner will own or occupy exclusively. I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of Appendix FM of the immigration Rules.(E-ECP.3.1)
> 
> I hope this helps as I found it hard to understand thanks for helping


This is also another killer one. How big is the place that you'll be living in? If there's 3 bedrooms and a bath and kitchen, I can see that the ECO has judged this fairly against you, as the space may be somewhat cramped without a reception room. You'll have to come up with some other living arrangements in order to satisfy the housing requirements. Are you able to move to another flat with fewer people or more space?


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## shane147 (Oct 16, 2012)

It's a house with 4 bedrooms and 3 people live there but the land lords son is at uni and visits on the holiday breaks but I think the savayor added him to which would mean 4 people plus me 5 . 

And as for the account that has £1600 in the lawyer wrote down the wrong account number there my wife's other account had £3600 in 

Thank you


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## shane147 (Oct 16, 2012)

It does look like I would have to find another property just to make sure


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

shane147 said:


> It's a house with 4 bedrooms and 3 people live there but the land lords son is at uni and visits on the holiday breaks but I think the savayor added him to which would mean 4 people plus me 5 .
> 
> *And as for the account that has £1600 in the lawyer wrote down the wrong account number there my wife's other account had £3600 in *
> 
> Thank you


Was the balance of that account £3600 for the entire duration of the 6 month period of time she's claiming for? If so, did she supply any bank statements to show that the balance was at £3600 for the 6 months claimed? If the statements _were_ supplied for the £3000 balance account and not the account with £3600 and the balance did indeed drop down to the £1600 that the ECO is claiming on the date that they are claiming then, unfortunately, the £3000 balance account decision stands and it's not likely that the £3600 balance account can be introduced on appeal.


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## shane147 (Oct 16, 2012)

We supplied 2 of my wife's statements 1 had £1600 and the other had £3600 the latter has been that amount for over 6 months


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

shane147 said:


> We supplied 2 of my wife's statements 1 had £1600 and the other had £3600 the latter has been that amount for over 6 months


So you're saying there are two accounts with different balances? If that's the case, did you supply 6 months worth of statements for each account? The ECO may have been confused if you didn't differentiate between the accounts.


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## shane147 (Oct 16, 2012)

Yes we did that why we are a bit confused and my employment I don't understand what else I can do to prove to them I've been employed by the same company for 10 years


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

shane147 said:


> Yes we did that why we are a bit confused and my employment I don't understand what else I can do to prove to them I've been employed by the same company for 10 years


There was nothing in the letter saying that the ECO doubted your employment. It was all about savings, accommodation, and proof of your savings.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

The biggest issue appears to be with the legacy that your Father left you in his will. 

If you had supplied a copy of the will or some official document specifying something along the lines of "I, Father_of_Shane147 hereby bequeath Shane147 a sum of £31000.00 and my collection of Ashes Cricket memorabilia..." (not that the cricket stuff is important to your case, but you get the idea) then at least that would help identify the source of the money that you're claiming (i.e. a legacy begat from a legal document) and prove that the funds are indeed yours and not some ill gotten spoils.


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## shane147 (Oct 16, 2012)

I've got to work now thanks for your help . 

Just one more thing what do you think is my step by step thing to do to sort this out as I miss my wife so much ?


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

shane147 said:


> I've got to work now thanks for your help .
> 
> Just one more thing what do you think is my step by step thing to do to sort this out as I miss my wife so much ?


If the ECO's math was correct in regards to your savings, you cannot appeal and you will have to re-apply. 

If you doubt the ECOs math and/or can prove that there will be no overcrowding *and* you can prove the legitimacy of the money your father left you, you may have a basis for appeal. Though appeals can take time. 2-3 months at least.


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## shane147 (Oct 16, 2012)

The trouble with that is my older sister a brother where executors to the will and that all the proof I have do you think they can write me a letter our get the solicitor to write one ?


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## shane147 (Oct 16, 2012)

I've got to work now thanks for your help 

I would like to talk to you again 
Thanks


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

I am not an expert but I doubt the UKBA would take a letter written by your brother and sister seriously. You need a copy of the will.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

shane147 said:


> The trouble with that is my older sister a brother where executors to the will and that all the proof I have do you think they can write me a letter our get the solicitor to write one ?


I should think that the solicitor may have a copy of the will in the records of your Father's file. I'd say contact the solicitor first to see what your options are. Explain to him/her what the situation is (i.e. proving the source of your legacy). They'd have a better idea as to what to do.


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## shane147 (Oct 16, 2012)

I already provided my dads will and probate but they was not satisfied


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

shane147 said:


> I've got to work now thanks for your help
> 
> I would like to talk to you again
> Thanks


Yep we will all still be around later, so if you think of more questions just pop back after work.


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## shane147 (Oct 16, 2012)

Right so my first job is to prove my money is mine it's a joke really


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

The UKBA don't know you and they get a lot of people who are lying, cheating, and trying to finagle their way into the UK, so of course you have to prove your money is yours. You have to prove you can support a spouse in the UK. 

Don't take it so personally. Think about it from their perspective. Just try to gather every bit of evidence you can, be professional and mature about it, and you should have no problems.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

shane147 said:


> Right so my first job is to prove my money is mine it's a joke really


I understand how frustrating it can be especially right after a visa refusal. As AmyD said, try not to take it personally, and instead think of some ways to do that. Examples could be showing the original source of the deposit, highlighting the sections in your father's will regarding the money, etc.


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## shane147 (Oct 16, 2012)

Yes it's frustrating I have spent 8-9 months preparing the documents but how else can I prove the money is mine if they won't except my fathers will and probate ?


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

shane147 said:


> Yes it's frustrating I have spent 8-9 months preparing the documents but how else can I prove the money is mine if they won't except my fathers will and probate ?


Is there a specific part in your father's will that specifically mentions the sum of the money and designates you as the recipient?


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## shane147 (Oct 16, 2012)

It just says the x amount of money is to be split equally between 4 of us


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## mark_T (Nov 28, 2012)

Hi guys (and especially Shane147), 
sorry to butt in on this thread, but I've got a question re your point below WCCG


WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> This one's the killer... the UKBA will only consider the _lowest balance in the 6 month period_ to be the balance on hand for the entire period. You may have started out at £3k at the beginning and at the end of the time being considered, but since it dropped down to "... under 1600 on the 24 August 2012..." the ECO will only consider the amount "under 1600" as the balance in the account for the entire 6 month period.
> 
> Has the balance gone back up to the £3k that you've been claiming? If so, the 6 month clock re-starts on the day that it reached that £3k balance and you can count 6 months from that day as a £3k balance, provided you don't let the balance go below that at any time.


I've been working for a company for more than 6 years, and recently they merged with another company. The 2 companies pay their employees at different times - my one at middle of the month, and the new one at the end of the month.
It was decided that all employees will be paid at the end of the month. 

So now this is my situation (I'm not sure of my wording, but hope you understand):
In mid Jan I was paid my usual wages, which is an "advance" from the new company. Then for the following 3 months (Jan, Feb and March), I'm only getting paid 3/4 of my usual wages at the end of this month.
From April, I will get back to receiving my normal wages.

If I was to re-apply for my wife's visa, what would the UKBA accept as my usual wages? the lowest amount made to me in jan, feb, march? 

I wasn't sure what would happen, so I've asked for a (headed) letter from the company explaining the difference in my 3 monthly wages, which they have given me. would this have any use?

mark


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

shane147 said:


> It just says the x amount of money is to be split equally between 4 of us


Hmm. In my mind that should have been sufficient if you showed the total sum / 4 = the exact sum that was deposited into your account. Did you include the bank statement that showed the original deposit?

Wait and see if another forum member comes along with advice regarding this. I was under the impression that perhaps the will did not specify a monetary amount.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

mark_T said:


> Hi guys (and especially Shane147),
> sorry to butt in on this thread, but I've got a question re your point below WCCG
> 
> 
> ...


Your ECO could very well take your wages at their lowest point, disregarding any company letter stating otherwise. They can take your wages at face value, which can be a downside to using Category A. If it is easier, you can apply using Category B and supply instead 12 months of payslips & bank statement. The ECO then takes your gross income from each payslip over the past 12 months at face value, which gives you a more accurate annual income, rather than the "Taking the lowest payslip of the last 6 months and multiply it by 12" system that Category A uses.


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## shane147 (Oct 16, 2012)

I want to go to china to visit my wife it feels like forever since I saw her I miss her do you think it's a good idea or should I wait ?


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

shane147 said:


> I want to go to china to visit my wife it feels like forever since I saw her I miss her do you think it's a good idea or should I wait ?


If you want to leave the UK and visit your wife, I don't see anything wrong with that. Then you can return home and have your wife re-apply for a visa. Generally we don't recommend the non-UK partner to attempt to visit the UK, as it generally leads to immigration refusing them entry because they can see a refusal on their record, but you should have no problems leaving and re-entering the UK.


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## mark_T (Nov 28, 2012)

Leanna said:


> Your ECO could very well take your wages at their lowest point, disregarding any company letter stating otherwise. They can take your wages at face value, which can be a downside to using Category A. If it is easier, you can apply using Category B and supply instead 12 months of payslips & bank statement. The ECO then takes your gross income from each payslip over the past 12 months at face value, which gives you a more accurate annual income, rather than the "Taking the lowest payslip of the last 6 months and multiply it by 12" system that Category A uses.


Thanks Leanna.
I've applied for a settlement visa, so i'm not sure what the Cat A/B are.
Seems a bit unfair, but hey thats typical ukba i guess!


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## mark_T (Nov 28, 2012)

Leanna said:


> If you want to leave the UK and visit your wife, I don't see anything wrong with that. Then you can return home and have your wife re-apply for a visa. Generally we don't recommend the non-UK partner to attempt to visit the UK, as it generally leads to immigration refusing them entry because they can see a refusal on their record, but you should have no problems leaving and re-entering the UK.


agree with what leanna says.
I've gone back twice now and will be going again soon. only downside (for me anyway) is the extra costs involved - flight ticket, extra spending money when overseas etc.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

mark_T said:


> Thanks Leanna.
> I've applied for a settlement visa, so i'm not sure what the Cat A/B are.
> Seems a bit unfair, but hey thats typical ukba i guess!


For Settlement there are two ways to show that you meet the financial requirement of £18,600. Category A means you supply 6 months of payslips & bank statements. UKBA then takes your income at its lowest point in the past 6 months and multiplies it by 12 to get your annual salary - that's why you need at least £1550 gross each month. Category B is designed for people who have multiple jobs or fluctuating income, as it requires 12 months of payslips & bank statements. Category B is more forgiving as UKBA adds up your actual gross income over the past 12 months, which is more accurate. 

You will see the choice between Category A or B in the relevant appendix for your application.


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## shane147 (Oct 16, 2012)

If I can not prove my £31000 is mine I will have no choice but to look for another job . 

Could you tell me how long I would need to be in my new job for and what I would need to provide 

Thank you


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

shane147 said:


> If I can not prove my £31000 is mine I will have no choice but to look for another job .
> 
> Could you tell me how long I would need to be in my new job for and what I would need to provide
> 
> Thank you


If for some reason you cannot prove it is yours (and hopefully someone will come along with more advice regarding this matter), you would have to work a second job until, over the past 12 months, you had earned £18,600. 

By you original post it appears that you have a shortfall of £6,796. So, depending on what type of job you secured, pay, hours, etc, you would have to wait until you made up that shortfall, which could be several months. 

I really do feel that you will be able to demonstrate that that inheritance is yours. I imagine more forum members will come around this evening and someone should have some advice. Could be as simple as getting a letter from a lawyer, I don't know.


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## shane147 (Oct 16, 2012)

I hope so as I don't want to leave this job at the moment as i earn only £14000 a year but I thought I could leave my current job and re-apply. After I had worked in my new job which earns £18600 a year after 6 months ?


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

shane147 said:


> I hope so as I don't want to leave this job at the moment as i earn only £14000 a year but I thought I could leave my current job and re-apply. After I had worked in my new job which earns £18600 a year after 6 months ?


Ah, you meant leaving your current job for one that pays more. My mistake, I thought you meant taking on a second job. Yes, if you found a new job that paid over £18,600 then you would only have to wait until you had 6 months of payslips before applying.


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## shane147 (Oct 16, 2012)

Oh brill but what about a p60 and stuff like that ?


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