# Advice for young girl expat in egypt



## NatalieLevi

Im Natalie, Im 19 and I got offered a couple of jobs in sharm last year, I was a bit dubious at the time but upon visiting sharm this year and my friends out there I have decided it is finally time to go. Ive been applying for animation jobs and got offered a job whilst over there as a dancer which I am always wary of...

Jobs aside, I would like to meet other english expats and hear about their experiences to help me along my way

thank you for any help its much appreciated x


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## NatalieLevi

anyone lol?


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## marenostrum

NatalieLevi said:


> Im Natalie, Im 19 and I got offered a couple of jobs in sharm last year, I was a bit dubious at the time but upon visiting sharm this year and my friends out there I have decided it is finally time to go. Ive been applying for animation jobs and got offered a job whilst over there as a dancer which I am always wary of...
> 
> Jobs aside, I would like to meet other english expats and hear about their experiences to help me along my way
> 
> thank you for any help its much appreciated x


Darling,

If you work there as a dancer you are going to have loads of egyptian men after you. These guys fancy 85 year old grannies no matter how they look, I can just imagine how they would fancy a dancer.

If you don't mind the attention and have a strong personality and know when to put people in their place you won't have a problem. But at times you will get harassed.


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## NatalieLevi

marenostrum said:


> Darling,
> 
> If you work there as a dancer you are going to have loads of egyptian men after you. These guys fancy 85 year old grannies no matter how they look, I can just imagine how they would fancy a dancer.
> 
> If you don't mind the attention and have a strong personality and know when to put people in their place you won't have a problem. But at times you will get harassed.


I know this is why I am a bit dubious, everytime we are over there we are always on the stages in pacha and last time we participated in a bikini modelling show on viva beach which also grabbed alot of male attention as you can imagine. I do know what the men can be like, but I am strong minded girl and not gullable in the slightest. I have arabic and english friends over in sharm which is also a plus.
Im just finding the accomdation and job hunting quite difficult of late

thank you for your advice its much appreciated


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## marenostrum

NatalieLevi said:


> I know this is why I am a bit dubious, everytime we are over there we are always on the stages in pacha and last time we participated in a bikini modelling show on viva beach which also grabbed alot of male attention as you can imagine. I do know what the men can be like, but I am strong minded girl and not gullable in the slightest. I have arabic and english friends over in sharm which is also a plus.
> Im just finding the accomdation and job hunting quite difficult of late
> 
> thank you for your advice its much appreciated


There is a guy here on the forum called Horus who lives in Sharm. He is pretty much into the social scene there so he will be able to give some advice.


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## Lindyloo1

I moved to Sharm 2 months ago and can only speak of my own personal experience.

Work is hard to find as there are no work permits unless you can get a job in a hotel and they obtain it on your behalf, whether they do or not I dont know - they are spot checking now here and somebody was caught the other day and were fined and given a 1st strike, if they are caught again without a permit they will be sent packing.. so be careful!

Im living in what I think is one of the nicest areas in Sharm over in Nabq and the small town itself is very nice... BUT... it has been for me a massive culture shock in the way of constant harassment from Egyptian men.

I am 40 years old and married here, I dress conservative but also allow for the heat - to be fair it would not matter if you were top to toe or wearing a bikini the harassment is the same - I am continually harassed by taxis and have been propositioned on a few occasions.. i have had a couple of stand up rows with microbuses as I was being verbally abused.. its not even ok to walk to the supermarket as for some reason it seems to entice them and they feel its ok to say or should i say murmur obscene comments... last week a guy walking towards me waited til he was close enough and asked if i wanted a f**K - luckily a young egyptian guy heard him and came to my defence but there are not many that will.

I am trained in self defence and travelled in my job to some of the most awful countries on earth and all i can say is brace yourself as I have truly never felt so sexually threatened as I do here.. a lot of the women in Sharm are either carrying or looking to purchase pepper spray!!! i was told to carry a corkscrew and if i was under assault to use it

Im not trying to put you off in anyway but if i had known how bad the harassment was going to be i may have been better prepared - these guys claim to be muslim.. men of god... they are animals who should have been allowed to leave their farms.

Sorry to you if I come across as harsh but my advice here is be very careful,be prepared for it and if you can take a self defence class prior to coming then do so!!!

Good luck


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## Widget

Hi, I also moved to Sharm just over two months ago......



Lindyloo1 said:


> Work is hard to find


because of the political unrest since the end of January and and damage caused to tourism as a result of it and the shark attacks which preceeded the revolution. It's also the responsibility of the employer to sort out the work permit not the employee.

I live in Naama Bay and yes I do experience daily whistling and cat calling as I walk past certain areas of town, and there are always comments from work vans as they drive past, and yes taxis do beep as they go by - they're looking for business - and occasionally will slow down and try and get you to go in their car by offering the journey for free (do not fall for that one please!), but you know what if you're firm and polite with taxi drivers you shouldn't get verbally abused when you tell them "no thanks I don't need a taxi"



Lindyloo1 said:


> I am 40 years old and married here, I dress conservative but also allow for the heat


not much difference here, I'm the wrong side of 35 but married to an Egyptian (does that make a difference, I doubt it because most of the time I'm out he is hard at work so subsequently I am alone), now I'm no dog in the looks department but personally I don't believe myself to be some stunning beauty either, but I if you want a relatively hassle free time is to appear confident (but not too confident) and when passing males (of any nationality) whilst on your own, do not look at them. I don't mean you should walk with your head hanging everywhere you go, but just look the other way, making eye contact is a sure fire way to encourage them.



Lindyloo1 said:


> its not even ok to walk to the supermarket as for some reason it seems to entice them and they feel its ok to say or should i say murmur obscene comments


I think maybe you're shopping in the wrong places, I do almost all of our shopping alone, I go to the same two supermarkets regularly, the staff know me and are perfectly polite, they may well be talking about me in arabic but you know what? I don't care, afterall they don't know what I'm thinking about them in my head do they!?



Lindyloo1 said:


> all i can say is brace yourself as I have truly never felt so sexually threatened as I do here..


I have only ever felt sexually threatened here twice, both times were during my first visit and were partly through the own stupidity of me and the friend I was travelling with.

Sorry Lindyloo1 I'm not trying to contradict everything you say, merely giving another viewpoint, but you are right in what you say: be careful, don't walk in unlit areas at night, don't get yourself into any situations you can't get out of, a self defence class would be useful but then that could be applied to women anywhere in the world.

I'm lucky I have managed to find myself a job, and I hope you can too. Workwise, animation is probably your best bet, you get accomodation and food with the job, on the adverse side though you get one day off a week and that apparently is spent sleeping, and when you are working your time is never your own (I met one of my friends here in sharm when she was working as animation in the hotel I was staying at).


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## MaidenScotland

Firm and polite works only on occasions


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## Widget

MaidenScotland said:


> Firm and polite works only on occasions


True, true.


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## marenostrum

Widget said:


> True, true.


I think Widget's assessment is a balanced one.

Also to put things into perspective slightly, currently you get a lot of hassle from certain foreign males in any uk and other european big cities. A lot of these have just landed and have no respect for females in general and they behave towards them as they would in their home countries with lewd remarks, pervy stares and other stuff. It is a cultural issue unfortunately.

This is probably a politically incorrect post but imho it states a fact.


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## MaidenScotland

marenostrum said:


> I think Widget's assessment is a balanced one.
> 
> Also to put things into perspective slightly, currently you get a lot of hassle from certain foreign males in any uk and other european big cities. A lot of these have just landed and have no respect for females in general and they behave towards them as they would in their home countries with lewd remarks, pervy stares and other stuff. It is a cultural issue unfortunately.
> 
> This is probably a politically incorrect post but imho it states a fact.


Harassment is a world wide problem but I have never been harassed the way I have been in Egypt plus of cour/e if you report harassment or assault the police in the. Uk are no going to ask you what is in your knickers that man wants to touch


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## marenostrum

MaidenScotland said:


> Harassment is a world wide problem but I have never been harassed the way I have been in Egypt plus of cour/e if you report harassment or assault the police in the. Uk are no going to ask you what is in your knickers that man wants to touch


Chris I know what you are saying and i am in no way saying that things are as bad as they are in Egypt but over the last few years I have noticed bad behaviour from many foreign men whilst living in Europe and at the cost of being branded a racist these folk looked like they were from africa middle east or ex commonwealth countries.
They are not going to change beahviour overnight once they land in Europe. 

But yes the problem here is still ten times worse.


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## Beatle

marenostrum said:


> Chris I know what you are saying and i am in no way saying that things are as bad as they are in Egypt but over the last few years I have noticed bad behaviour from many foreign men whilst living in Europe and at the cost of being branded a racist these folk looked like they were from africa middle east or ex commonwealth countries.
> They are not going to change beahviour overnight once they land in Europe.


Funny you should say that because the men that would try to rub themselves against me on buses and would try and grope me on trains when I lived in Italy were Italians....sexual harassment in Europe is not a problem that has arisen due to immigration.

Although I have encountered harassment in Egypt, I've adopted Widget's approach of not making eye contact and they tend to go away. On the occasions I've been followed and I've wanted to get rid of them, I've walked up to security guards or police who have always scared the guys off. However what's scares me about Egypt now is that the situation is so volatile, it wouldn't take much to inflame to groups of young men in Cairo at the moment. What happened after Eid prayers in Cairo several years ago was horrific and what happened to the American journalist recently was equally horrific. It's very rare to encounter this type of mob violence directed towards females in Europe.


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## marenostrum

Beatle said:


> Funny you should say that because the men that would try to rub themselves against me on buses and would try and grope me on trains when I lived in Italy were Italians....sexual harassment in Europe is not a problem that has arisen due to immigration.
> 
> Although I have encountered harassment in Egypt, I've adopted Widget's approach of not making eye contact and they tend to go away. On the occasions I've been followed and I've wanted to get rid of them, I've walked up to security guards or police who have always scared the guys off. However what's scares me about Egypt now is that the situation is so volatile, it wouldn't take much to inflame to groups of young men in Cairo at the moment. What happened after Eid prayers in Cairo several years ago was horrific and what happened to the American journalist recently was equally horrific. It's very rare to encounter this type of mob violence directed towards females in Europe.


I thought you'd be the first one to reply to my latest post


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## Horus

marenostrum said:


> There is a guy here on the forum called Horus who lives in Sharm. He is pretty much into the social scene there so he will be able to give some advice.


Sweetheart I have some honest advice for you

1. Work permits for unskilled work are currently stopped 

2. Average wage per month £300 - £400

3. Cheapest rent (basic) £200 - £300 p/m

4. Expenses (frugal living) £300 - £400 per month

5. Egypt is full of sex starved Egyptians before you know it you will have an Egyptian boyfriend who will break your heart and feed you the usual crap stories

6. Sharm is quiet jobs are rare those which are offered through a back door again are low paid

You are only 19 and I think you should explore all the options and if you do come make sure you do not burn any bridges in the UK however I feel you will have many challenges, try getting a job in the travel industry first and delay your plans


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## Lindyloo1

@ widget, ty for your comments and yes its good to have another view.

I am married to an Egyptian myself and when I have told him of the problems I can see the shame he feels regards his fellow countryman - I dont generally tell him now as for a couple of weeks it was a daily occurence when I was walking to supermarket, I ended up jumping on bus and now travel to rageb from Nabq to shop as have not yet had a problem.

I generally do look away as I dont want eye contact to be considered a come on but I will not hang my head.. on a few occasions i have challenged the remarks but really dont care too much for what they are murmuring on most occasions but everyone has a limit!!

I think for a 19 year old girl it may be different and that should not be taken as patronising but if my 19 year old sister was asking me this question I would tell her to stay at home, travel Europe, do anything else but do not come here to take a dancing job

I must be a very lucky girl as can safely say in the UK or anywhere else for that matter I have never been called a ***** or a **** or offered sex from a taxi driver or had a bus stop and the guys shout abuse or been offered a f**k from a man in a galebaya or jeans and a t shirt for that matter lol

As for telling the police or a security guy in 2 months I am yet to see one... when I told the guys on the bus I would report them they all laughed - so thats not much use really.

I think the young lady looking to come should be aware of what she will be up against as armed with some facts will make her keep her eyes open - knowledge is power

If she decides to come I hope she remains safe, and above all vigilant and responsible for her own safety - rely on nobody else for your safety


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## RPC

Beatle said:


> Funny you should say that because the men that would try to rub themselves against me on buses and would try and grope me on trains when I lived in Italy were Italians....sexual harassment in Europe is not a problem that has arisen due to immigration.
> 
> Although I have encountered harassment in Egypt, I've adopted Widget's approach of not making eye contact and they tend to go away. On the occasions I've been followed and I've wanted to get rid of them, I've walked up to security guards or police who have always scared the guys off. However what's scares me about Egypt now is that the situation is so volatile, it wouldn't take much to inflame to groups of young men in Cairo at the moment. What happened after Eid prayers in Cairo several years ago was horrific and what happened to the American journalist recently was equally horrific. It's very rare to encounter this type of mob violence directed towards females in Europe.


Beatle, yes, also Italian can harass ladies on the bus unfortunately :-(( and according to national figures distributed by ISTAT (the National statistics office) only 10% of rape case are committed in Italy by foreigners. 

However, I have a wife and a couple of teenage daughters living in Cairo which allows me to say to please don't even dare comparing the huge woman harassment issue existing in Egypt (Sharm is worst then Cairo) with what happens normally in Italy. 

My advise to Natalie, especially if engaged in the entertainment industry in Sharm simply .... don't take the job!! lane:


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## Sam

My advise to OP is that she is young, she has no ties and that she should get and enjoy herself and explore the world, but don't think of this as her long term goal. There are so many that wish they had done "that kind of thing" before having kids of physical ties, and as long as she doesn't have anything to lose, then why not. 

As for harassment... hmmmm... I'm 26 and I can safely say I have not ever felt sexually threatened in this country in the (almost) 5 years I have lived here. I have experienced the usual mumbled comment here and there "beautiful lady" or whatever else, when they say stuff in Arabic I take it as a compliment since it wasn't meant for me to understand, but have never had groping or indecent proposals or anything that I would consider a serious offence. That's not to say it doesn't happen, I don't deny that, I'm just saying it's never happened to me.


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## RPC

RPC said:


> Beatle, yes, also Italian can harass ladies on the bus unfortunately :-(( and according to national figures distributed by ISTAT (the National statistics office) only 10% of rape case are committed in Italy by foreigners.
> 
> However, I have a wife and a couple of teenage daughters living in Cairo which allows me to say to please don't even dare comparing the huge woman harassment issue existing in Egypt (Sharm is worst then Cairo) with what happens normally in Italy.
> 
> My advise to Natalie, especially if engaged in the entertainment industry in Sharm simply .... don't take the job!! lane:



... if you need numbers: A survey in 2008 by the Egyptian Center for Women’s Rights claimed that 98% of foreign women and 83% of Egyptian women in the country had been sexually harassed. (from Sexual Harassment from Muslim Men, Common In Egypt Knight's Christian Commentaries and Worldwide News)

....also from BBC Cairo.... Egypt's sexual harassment 'cancer' (18/07/2008)

By Magdi Abdelhadi 
BBC News, Cairo


Noha Ostath's ordeal became a subject for discussion in the national press

Sexual harassment of women in Egypt is on the increase and observing Islamic dress code is no deterrent, according to a survey published this week.
The Egyptian Centre for Women's Rights (ECWR) describes the problem as a social cancer and calls on the government to introduce legislation to curb it.
The findings contradict the widely held belief in Egypt that unveiled women are more likely to suffer harassment than veiled ones.

SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN EGYPT
Experienced by 98% of foreign women visitors
Experienced by 83% of Egyptian women
62% of Egyptian men admitted harassing women
53% of Egyptian men blame women for 'bringing it on'
Source: Egyptian Centre for Women's Rights
Participants in the survey were shown pictures of women wearing different kinds of dress - from the mini skirt to the niqab (full face veil) and asked which were more likely to be harassed.
More than 60% - including female respondents - suggested the scantily clad woman was most at risk. But in reality the study concluded the majority of the victims of harassment were modestly dressed women wearing Islamic headscarves.
ECWR head Nihad Abu El-Qoumsan said that even veiled women who were victims of harassment blamed themselves.
Western women who took part in the study demonstrated a strong belief in their entitlement to personal safety and freedom of movement, she says, but this was totally absent among Egyptian respondents.
No-one spoke about freedom of choice, freedom of movement or the right to legal protection. No-one showed any awareness that the harasser was a criminal, regardless of what clothes the victim was wearing.


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## marenostrum

Lindyloo1 said:


> or been offered a f**k from a man in a galebaya or jeans and a t shirt for that matter lol


what has happened to the old romance ehi?

In my days you had to take out a lady for dinner / S with s in bold and caps lock before even contemplating to approach what the man with a galebaya was thinking of....

You have to hand it to these guys, they cut straight to the chase lol...

Seriously though, why do these men see western women as whores. Is it the television, the internet or what. Some of the top egyptian actresses and politicians are well know for sleeping around and stuff like that so its not as if their own tv stars or politicians are more "moral" than ours (ok leave Berlusconi and his bunga bunga out of this please even if I am sure Gamal got up to worse in his days ).

Where does this egyptian mentality come from? I have been to jordan and syria and did not notice any of this crap that goes on here. My time there was a fair few years back so things may be different now but you don't seem to read so much about harassment in these other countries.


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## Lindyloo1

Well I asked a few normal well mannered Egyptians and the response I got was fairly similar, they blame the the lack of education of the Egyptian man and also what they see on television - but mainly they blame it on the women they see in the tourist areas and how they see them behave .. they see the European women as "up for it"

I was told that the way women of certain nationalities behave is worse than others and that the man in the street cannot identify them unless they approach them and try to strike up a conversation so sadly we are simply all tarred with the same brush!

I think in England guys would call it the numbers game - if you approach enough one may relent, I think they are so stupid they believe any attention is better than no attention..like a naughty child lol

@ sam - I think you just a very lucky lady, I have just met a female guest from my husbands hotel in the street and she said she felt safer and less harassed in Naama bay as opposed to Nabq!

I just think its a great shame as it could be a nice place to live and like anywhere in the world it has its faults but as above figures clearly show the sexual harassment of women is commonplace but for me totally unacceptable - I said it before, I am positive people will holiday in Egypt but I dont think many will return again if something is not done and quickly


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## MaidenScotland

Lindyloo1 said:


> Well I asked a few normal well mannered Egyptians and the response I got was fairly similar, they blame the the lack of education of the Egyptian man and also what they see on television - but mainly they blame it on the women they see in the tourist areas and how they see them behave .. they see the European women as "up for it"
> 
> I was told that the way women of certain nationalities behave is worse than others and that the man in the street cannot identify them unless they approach them and try to strike up a conversation so sadly we are simply all tarred with the same brush!
> 
> I think in England guys would call it the numbers game - if you approach enough one may relent, I think they are so stupid they believe any attention is better than no attention..like a naughty child lol
> 
> @ sam - I think you just a very lucky lady, I have just met a female guest from my husbands hotel in the street and she said she felt safer and less harassed in Naama bay as opposed to Nabq!
> 
> I just think its a great shame as it could be a nice place to live and like anywhere in the world it has its faults but as above figures clearly show the sexual harassment of women is commonplace but for me totally unacceptable - I said it before, I am positive people will holiday in Egypt but I dont think many will return again if something is not done and quickly




typical response.. blame it on the women. Egyptian women are also subjected to harassment on a daily basis does this mean they too are up for it?

The sad fact is generally men in the middle east have very little respect for women other than their mother/sister.


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## aykalam

Lindyloo1 said:


> Well I asked a few normal well mannered Egyptians and the response I got was fairly similar, they blame the the lack of education of the Egyptian man and also what they see on television - but mainly they blame it on the women they see in the tourist areas and how they see them behave .. they see the European women as "up for it"
> 
> I was told that the way women of certain nationalities behave is worse than others and that the man in the street cannot identify them unless they approach them and try to strike up a conversation so sadly we are simply all tarred with the same brush!
> 
> I think in England guys would call it the numbers game - if you approach enough one may relent, I think they are so stupid they believe any attention is better than no attention..like a naughty child lol
> 
> @ sam - I think you just a very lucky lady, I have just met a female guest from my husbands hotel in the street and she said she felt safer and less harassed in Naama bay as opposed to Nabq!
> 
> I just think its a great shame as it could be a nice place to live and like anywhere in the world it has its faults but as above figures clearly show the sexual harassment of women is commonplace but for me totally unacceptable - I said it before, I am positive people will holiday in Egypt but I dont think many will return again if something is not done and quickly


It's funny how these "normal" people put the onus on the women, when muslim women wearing the niqab also get harassed in the streets. Take it from us, it's not you, it's them. It makes absolutely no difference what you wear or how you behave. If you go out you will be harassed.


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## NatalieLevi

Lindyloo1 said:


> I moved to Sharm 2 months ago and can only speak of my own personal experience.
> 
> Work is hard to find as there are no work permits unless you can get a job in a hotel and they obtain it on your behalf, whether they do or not I dont know - they are spot checking now here and somebody was caught the other day and were fined and given a 1st strike, if they are caught again without a permit they will be sent packing.. so be careful!
> 
> Im living in what I think is one of the nicest areas in Sharm over in Nabq and the small town itself is very nice... BUT... it has been for me a massive culture shock in the way of constant harassment from Egyptian men.
> 
> I am 40 years old and married here, I dress conservative but also allow for the heat - to be fair it would not matter if you were top to toe or wearing a bikini the harassment is the same - I am continually harassed by taxis and have been propositioned on a few occasions.. i have had a couple of stand up rows with microbuses as I was being verbally abused.. its not even ok to walk to the supermarket as for some reason it seems to entice them and they feel its ok to say or should i say murmur obscene comments... last week a guy walking towards me waited til he was close enough and asked if i wanted a f**K - luckily a young egyptian guy heard him and came to my defence but there are not many that will.
> 
> I am trained in self defence and travelled in my job to some of the most awful countries on earth and all i can say is brace yourself as I have truly never felt so sexually threatened as I do here.. a lot of the women in Sharm are either carrying or looking to purchase pepper spray!!! i was told to carry a corkscrew and if i was under assault to use it
> 
> Im not trying to put you off in anyway but if i had known how bad the harassment was going to be i may have been better prepared - these guys claim to be muslim.. men of god... they are animals who should have been allowed to leave their farms.
> 
> Sorry to you if I come across as harsh but my advice here is be very careful,be prepared for it and if you can take a self defence class prior to coming then do so!!!
> 
> Good luck



Hi sorry for the late reply, I am very aware of what egyptian men can be like, being a young blonde you can imagine what my last visit was like, lots of obscene comments and forward people following us about. I appreciate your advice and I will be 100% as careful as possible and stick by people I know etc when travelling out.

A friend has asked to join me so at least I wont be travelling alone


thanks again for the advice


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## NatalieLevi

Horus said:


> Sweetheart I have some honest advice for you
> 
> 1. Work permits for unskilled work are currently stopped
> 
> 2. Average wage per month £300 - £400
> 
> 3. Cheapest rent (basic) £200 - £300 p/m
> 
> 4. Expenses (frugal living) £300 - £400 per month
> 
> 5. Egypt is full of sex starved Egyptians before you know it you will have an Egyptian boyfriend who will break your heart and feed you the usual crap stories
> 
> 6. Sharm is quiet jobs are rare those which are offered through a back door again are low paid
> 
> You are only 19 and I think you should explore all the options and if you do come make sure you do not burn any bridges in the UK however I feel you will have many challenges, try getting a job in the travel industry first and delay your plans


I am already aware of the wages and rent as I have egyptian and english friends living in sharm... you are right is alot to think about at the moment and every little detail will be taken into consideration before I make a final decision, on the other hand being young its my time to do something Ive been wanting to do for a couple of years, I never want it to get too late and be kicking myself for not getting out there and doing something I want to do... I apply for jobs here in the uk and asked friends over there about there companies etc. 

I am not naive or gullable enough to believe what most people ie. ''egyptian boyfriends'' have got to say, its not based on men in anyway. I genuinley love the place itself.

Thank you for your advice its much appreciate it and I assure you its all being taken into consideration before I make any drastic descisions

x


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## NatalieLevi

Lindyloo1 said:


> @ widget, ty for your comments and yes its good to have another view.
> 
> I am married to an Egyptian myself and when I have told him of the problems I can see the shame he feels regards his fellow countryman - I dont generally tell him now as for a couple of weeks it was a daily occurence when I was walking to supermarket, I ended up jumping on bus and now travel to rageb from Nabq to shop as have not yet had a problem.
> 
> I generally do look away as I dont want eye contact to be considered a come on but I will not hang my head.. on a few occasions i have challenged the remarks but really dont care too much for what they are murmuring on most occasions but everyone has a limit!!
> 
> I think for a 19 year old girl it may be different and that should not be taken as patronising but if my 19 year old sister was asking me this question I would tell her to stay at home, travel Europe, do anything else but do not come here to take a dancing job
> 
> I must be a very lucky girl as can safely say in the UK or anywhere else for that matter I have never been called a ***** or a **** or offered sex from a taxi driver or had a bus stop and the guys shout abuse or been offered a f**k from a man in a galebaya or jeans and a t shirt for that matter lol
> 
> As for telling the police or a security guy in 2 months I am yet to see one... when I told the guys on the bus I would report them they all laughed - so thats not much use really.
> 
> I think the young lady looking to come should be aware of what she will be up against as armed with some facts will make her keep her eyes open - knowledge is power
> 
> If she decides to come I hope she remains safe, and above all vigilant and responsible for her own safety - rely on nobody else for your safety




Thank you for this advice, I know exactly where you are coming from believe me... I found that with a stern NO or ''la shukran'' they walk away, or plainly just ignoring them and carrying on walking without eye contact as you said. 

I am quite strong minded even being young and I know what I want, and what I dont. I had a panic attack the first time we visited egypt from the amount of men crowding round and the heat and all the shouting and pestering all at once as we walked through naama bay... but since then its never really bothered me even when messing about dancing on stages in pacha they ask you for photos every 5 seconds but non of them have yet grabbed touched insinuated or propositioned anything they just think its fun


I appeciate the advice from other expats in egypt and it will definatley be information that I remember and consider on my move..

thank you


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## NatalieLevi

Widget said:


> Hi, I also moved to Sharm just over two months ago......
> 
> 
> because of the political unrest since the end of January and and damage caused to tourism as a result of it and the shark attacks which preceeded the revolution. It's also the responsibility of the employer to sort out the work permit not the employee.
> 
> I live in Naama Bay and yes I do experience daily whistling and cat calling as I walk past certain areas of town, and there are always comments from work vans as they drive past, and yes taxis do beep as they go by - they're looking for business - and occasionally will slow down and try and get you to go in their car by offering the journey for free (do not fall for that one please!), but you know what if you're firm and polite with taxi drivers you shouldn't get verbally abused when you tell them "no thanks I don't need a taxi"
> 
> 
> not much difference here, I'm the wrong side of 35 but married to an Egyptian (does that make a difference, I doubt it because most of the time I'm out he is hard at work so subsequently I am alone), now I'm no dog in the looks department but personally I don't believe myself to be some stunning beauty either, but I if you want a relatively hassle free time is to appear confident (but not too confident) and when passing males (of any nationality) whilst on your own, do not look at them. I don't mean you should walk with your head hanging everywhere you go, but just look the other way, making eye contact is a sure fire way to encourage them.
> 
> 
> I think maybe you're shopping in the wrong places, I do almost all of our shopping alone, I go to the same two supermarkets regularly, the staff know me and are perfectly polite, they may well be talking about me in arabic but you know what? I don't care, afterall they don't know what I'm thinking about them in my head do they!?
> 
> 
> I have only ever felt sexually threatened here twice, both times were during my first visit and were partly through the own stupidity of me and the friend I was travelling with.
> 
> Sorry Lindyloo1 I'm not trying to contradict everything you say, merely giving another viewpoint, but you are right in what you say: be careful, don't walk in unlit areas at night, don't get yourself into any situations you can't get out of, a self defence class would be useful but then that could be applied to women anywhere in the world.
> 
> I'm lucky I have managed to find myself a job, and I hope you can too. Workwise, animation is probably your best bet, you get accomodation and food with the job, on the adverse side though you get one day off a week and that apparently is spent sleeping, and when you are working your time is never your own (I met one of my friends here in sharm when she was working as animation in the hotel I was staying at).



I can relate to what you are saying here aswell, the taxi drivers beep alll the way up the strip towards naama bay but you just ignore them or say no thankyou and they go away, as for the males they are pretty easy to handle if you dont make eye contact...

I have been offered a couple of jobs over in sharm and one animation team has shown interest and asked when I can start, I have two friends who work in animation and I will be asking them about the company if I should need the advice.

Thanks for your advice


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## marenostrum

NatalieLevi said:


> Thank you for this advice, I know exactly where you are coming from believe me... I found that with a stern NO or ''la shukran'' they walk away, or plainly just ignoring them and carrying on walking without eye contact as you said.
> 
> I am quite strong minded even being young and I know what I want, and what I dont. I had a panic attack the first time we visited egypt from the amount of men crowding round and the heat and all the shouting and pestering all at once as we walked through naama bay... but since then its never really bothered me even when messing about dancing on stages in pacha they ask you for photos every 5 seconds but non of them have yet grabbed touched insinuated or propositioned anything they just think its fun
> 
> 
> I appeciate the advice from other expats in egypt and it will definatley be information that I remember and consider on my move..
> 
> thank you


First of all I would like to thank the user who complained about my signature. 

I look forward to people complaining about the posts on the UK forum from people who are asking for illegal ways of getting into Europe. I bet those don't get reported to the moderation or indeed they don't get any complaints at all....

I know who has complained my post, I wish you said it to me directly or even on here but I know what people of your ilk are like, its a lost cause.

anyway rant over :ranger:

For Natalie, Nat have you thought of going to the Far East. There is a lot of work there in entertainment in coastal locations, the pay is better and the hassle from males would be a lot less. Bali, Malaysia, Thailand come to mind.

Nearer home have you thought of Cyprus.


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## NatalieLevi

marenostrum said:


> First of all I would like to thank the user who complained about my signature. I
> 
> I look forward to people complaining about the posts on the UK forum from people who are asking for illegal ways of getting into Europe. I bet those don't get reported to the moderation or indeed they don't get any complaints at all....
> 
> I know who has complained my post, I wish you said it to me directly or even on here but I know what people of your ilk are like, its a lost cause.
> 
> anyway rant over :ranger:
> 
> For Natalie, Nat have you thought of going to the Far East. There is a lot of work there in entertainment in coastal locations, the pay is better and the hassle from males would be a lot less. Bali, Malaysia, Thailand come to mind.
> 
> Nearer home have you thought of Cyprus.



I have thought of other countries for sure, I am visiting a friend of the family in italy if I hear nothing of this move in the near future ie. getting a job etc. just for a taste of another country (mothers advice lol)

But its just one of those countries that instantly clicked with me... My grandparents are the same with tenerife and my dad with france, but I have been to other countries before and none have gave me that feeling like egypt did. 

Maybe in time I will try these places but at the moment my heart is set on sharm... weather its going to happen or it ends up falling apart Im sure whatevers meant to happen will do

thank you


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## Sam

Lindyloo1 said:


> Well I asked a few normal well mannered Egyptians and the response I got was fairly similar, they blame the the lack of education of the Egyptian man and also what they see on television - but mainly they blame it on the women they see in the tourist areas and how they see them behave .. they see the European women as "up for it"
> 
> I was told that the way women of certain nationalities behave is worse than others and that the man in the street cannot identify them unless they approach them and try to strike up a conversation so sadly we are simply all tarred with the same brush!
> 
> I think in England guys would call it the numbers game - if you approach enough one may relent, I think they are so stupid they believe any attention is better than no attention..like a naughty child lol
> 
> @ sam - I think you just a very lucky lady, I have just met a female guest from my husbands hotel in the street and she said she felt safer and less harassed in Naama bay as opposed to Nabq!
> 
> I just think its a great shame as it could be a nice place to live and like anywhere in the world it has its faults but as above figures clearly show the sexual harassment of women is commonplace but for me totally unacceptable - I said it before, I am positive people will holiday in Egypt but I dont think many will return again if something is not done and quickly



Oh, that is the typical "Egyptian Man" answer, it's the women's fault! All women tarred with the same brush or not, the behaviour of the women do not mean that all these men in the street think we're "up for it". 

The reason is little to no education and sexual repression. The "decent men" of Egypt see the same "badly behaved" girls, yet they don't approach every girl in the street, or any girl in the street for that matter. And whilst it is us "foreigners" that are here complaining on this forum, I know for a fact that Egyptian girls are harassed too.

@lindyloo - a genuine question. You or the female guest you have met, which places do you especially feel threatened in and why, in Nabq more specifically. Aside from the standard "oooh beautiful, I should be lucky to marry one like you" type of comments, I've never had anything rude or invasive. But if there are problem areas I would genuinely love to know who and where to perhaps try and do something about it. If it's a cafe or shop, usually the owners don't know, etc.


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## Lindyloo1

@sam - again you are lucky as I dont get the oooohh beautiful lol

The first few days was outside the hotel Amraj by taxi driver so i crossed over.. the same problem occurs with a particular taxi driver and my husband has told me to take the taxi number as he will report him, the bus had a number on it but i was so enraged i didnt get the number.

I get the odd noises from the guys who have simply abandoned a huge pile of clothes on the outside of white knight and try to sell them, i thought they were just sleeping on them but they are selling them apparently, there was also for a time some construction guys who looked as though they were sleeping on the grass outside of sierra before union jack but i have not seen them for a bit

I noticed now a lot of taxis here dont have the car number on them anymore, I dont know if this is a new thing but now i dont get in unless there is a number and i dont ever let the taxi take me to the exact location I live but instead get dropped off at front and walk the rest

Some guys (not stall owners) sit outside where the straw huts are and make comments but I fired on one so fast the other day he near jumped - he was saying sharmoota or some crap and when i turned back and asked him what he said he told me it meant hello in Russian - i said shall i call my husband down here and maybe he can help you to translate correctly, at this he backed down

Now Sam I generally get the bus there and back, I have given up with my evening stroll as it was just hassle i dont need and im not of the right temperament to tolerate.

As i said if time permits i jump on the bus and go to rageb as prefer the bus ride there as opposed to the hassle of getting to metro, im sure a few people have seen me enough times now to work out i am resident but i dread going now so much the damage is sort of done

I think its often clear who are the educated men and who are the farmers...my husband told me very early on stay far from the stupid people


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## Sam

Lindyloo1 said:


> @sam - again you are lucky as I dont get the oooohh beautiful lol
> 
> The first few days was outside the hotel Amraj by taxi driver so i crossed over.. the same problem occurs with a particular taxi driver and my husband has told me to take the taxi number as he will report him, the bus had a number on it but i was so enraged i didnt get the number.
> 
> I get the odd noises from the guys who have simply abandoned a huge pile of clothes on the outside of white knight and try to sell them, i thought they were just sleeping on them but they are selling them apparently, there was also for a time some construction guys who looked as though they were sleeping on the grass outside of sierra before union jack but i have not seen them for a bit
> 
> I noticed now a lot of taxis here dont have the car number on them anymore, I dont know if this is a new thing but now i dont get in unless there is a number and i dont ever let the taxi take me to the exact location I live but instead get dropped off at front and walk the rest
> 
> Some guys (not stall owners) sit outside where the straw huts are and make comments but I fired on one so fast the other day he near jumped - he was saying sharmoota or some crap and when i turned back and asked him what he said he told me it meant hello in Russian - i said shall i call my husband down here and maybe he can help you to translate correctly, at this he backed down
> 
> Now Sam I generally get the bus there and back, I have given up with my evening stroll as it was just hassle i dont need and im not of the right temperament to tolerate.
> 
> As i said if time permits i jump on the bus and go to rageb as prefer the bus ride there as opposed to the hassle of getting to metro, im sure a few people have seen me enough times now to work out i am resident but i dread going now so much the damage is sort of done
> 
> I think its often clear who are the educated men and who are the farmers...my husband told me very early on stay far from the stupid people


"Stay far from the stupid people" lol. I love that!! We are completely in the wrong place! Haha

It's been a loooooong time since I took a taxi, I haven't noticed they stopped displaying numbers. I thought it was a legal requirement?! 

Once I have more time on my hands lets take a walk up to La Strada, you should not feel threatened in and around the place you live. I know you say the damage is done, but if this is your home you should feel safe to go places. The most dangerous thing along that path are the idiots riding their motorbikes on the pavements, you should really not worry about the people.


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## gerhardme1954

The harresment of foreign woman in Egypt, whether Sharm El Sheikh or in Cairo is very real! It is the one thing which makes me both very uncomfrotable about the place, and really angry because of the way my wife has been stalked. She is 56, yet 19 year olds stalks her! It happens when she is alone, of cause, but I am waiting for the day I am close by...not sure where it will go, but somebody is going to bleed, a lot...There will be no discussion, or debate.


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## MaidenScotland

gerhardme1954 said:


> The harresment of foreign woman in Egypt, whether Sharm El Sheikh or in Cairo is very real! It is the one thing which makes me both very uncomfrotable about the place, and really angry because of the way my wife has been stalked. She is 56, yet 19 year olds stalks her! It happens when she is alone, of cause, but I am waiting for the day I am close by...not sure where it will go, but somebody is going to bleed, a lot...There will be no discussion, or debate.


Of course it is real... Unless you are talking to the authorities who vehemently deny it


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