# family planning a move from US



## smanm2016 (Jul 29, 2015)

Hello everyone,


I'm new to all of this. We are planning to move in one year overseas(leaning towards Spain) Our daughters will be 2 and 4 at the time of the move. Is there anyone out there who has moved to Spain or anyplace else with children who can give advice as to what your experience has been, what you have learned, what we need to know etc. 

I have not had a lot of luck finding information. We have posted on many forums and have had very little response so far. We are in the early stages of research and this is part of our research, learning from people who have done it. 

We have the income handles, will not need to work there and are coming form NYC so assume the cost of living in Spain will be less than we are used to but that's another aspect we would like some light shed on as we have heard varying opinions. Since we have small children, safety and health care are of course top priorities. The main reason for the move is for a change of environment, better weather, new experiences and easier ability to travel to places we haven't been while our girls are still young. We are leaning towards a Spanish speaking country because we want our girls to learn Spanish. 

Thank you in advance for any information.

Stephen, Marie, Ava and Emma


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

smanm2016 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> 
> I'm new to all of this. We are planning to move in one year overseas(leaning towards Spain) Our daughters will be 2 and 4 at the time of the move. Is there anyone out there who has moved to Spain or anyplace else with children who can give advice as to what your experience has been, what you have learned, what we need to know etc.
> ...


If Spanish is high on the list you might want to look at this linguistic map of Spain








Your children, and you, could be exposed to two new languages which can be good or bad, depending on how you look at it


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

smanm2016 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> 
> I'm new to all of this. We are planning to move in one year overseas(leaning towards Spain) Our daughters will be 2 and 4 at the time of the move. Is there anyone out there who has moved to Spain or anyplace else with children who can give advice as to what your experience has been, what you have learned, what we need to know etc.
> ...


:welcome:

if you haven't already done so, the first thing you need to do is get in touch with your nearest Spanish Consulate to discuss visa options


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## smanm2016 (Jul 29, 2015)

Thank you for the reply. I have heard this but don't really know what it means. I've heard that Catalan in Barcelona in very different from Spanish but the others are more like the difference between British and US English. Can you shed light.

Anything else to add? Do you live there? with kids?

Thanks


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## smanm2016 (Jul 29, 2015)

xabiachica said:


> :welcome:
> 
> if you haven't already done so, the first thing you need to do is get in touch with your nearest Spanish Consulate to discuss visa options



Thank you. I have had trouble actually contacting them them but have found info on how to obtain. Since we wont need to work there we can show sufficient income and get one that way or enroll in a language school and get a student visa that way. Our daughter will also be enrolled in pre K there.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

This is general advice that applies to most EU countries, not only Spain.

If you are planning on working remotely at a US-based job, you may have difficulty obtaining a visa for a one-year stay. Though you are obviously not "taking jobs away from the locals" it still counts as working in Spain, which technically requires a work permit, and paying into the tax and social-security system, and so forth. Not straightforward.

One alternative is to show enough savings (and/or passive income) to apply for a "non-lucrative" visa so that you can spend a year living in Spain, effectively on a long vacation, with no suggestion of employment. Another alternative is to apply for language programs and obtain a student visa (which would also require proof of savings). In both cases you would need to carry your own health insurance. If either job is in any way related to academia you might have possibilities calling it a sabbatical exchange.

If you continue working remotely, keep it your affair, as it's basically undetectable. A number of folks on this forum will point out that doing so is illegal and immoral and all that. (Last word I'll say on the subject.) But it is certainly doable.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

On the subject of hauling kids over for a change of scene, it's a cool idea that I hugely support.

We took our daughter to Germany almost every summer from age three, for stays of six weeks to six months. Early on we put her in day care for language immersion, enrolled her for half a year in regular schools at grades 4 and 8, and also summer camps. Her German is quite good now.

At a young age your kids will develop the language very quickly if they are in regular child care. Be prepared for some fatigue and stress (ergo tantrums) early on, but soon they'll be chattering happily. The language will also disappear if not refreshed regularly, so don't assume that spending one year abroad at age four is going to leave them fluent for life.

As to how much travel you can usefully accomplish, that depends on you and the kids. Don't overestimate their maturity, but don't underestimate it either. 

I know nothing about child care and education in Spain, will leave that for others to answer. You may have issues with eligibility for public pre-school if you are only visitors on a non-lucrative visa. In Germany we had no trouble enrolling our daughter in public schools while visiting on sabbatical, but for basic day care at younger ages we arranged to pay privately as we weren't staying long enough to be registered with the local bureaucracy.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

w.r.t. language:

The map shown in an earlier post is only a guide since you will even find local variations within a province. One thing you will need to consider is whether you want the children to have city life, town life or village life - there can be quite a difference and a huge difference from NYC.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

smanm2016 said:


> Thank you for the reply. I have heard this but don't really know what it means. I've heard that Catalan in Barcelona in very different from Spanish but the others are more like the difference between British and US English. Can you shed light.
> 
> Anything else to add? Do you live there? with kids?
> 
> Thanks


I live in the Valencia region

I speak Castellano my children went through school studying in both Castellano & Valenciano

Valenciano & Castellano are two _totally different_ languages - as are all the other languages shown on the map. They are separate & different to Castellano

However, Valenciano & Catalán are indeed very similar to each other, in the same way that British & US English are


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## xolo (May 25, 2014)

I don't know if OP is still around. You don't need to worry about regional languages - almost everyone will speak to you in Spanish or English. If you are a beginner in Spanish I wouldn't think what variety of Spanish you are immersed in will matter much, either. 

Except, as Xabiachica has noted, the language used in the school of your children might be of concern.

There's two unlabeled languages on the map - I believe they are Asturian and Aragonese - but don't worry, you won't hear them. They're endangered. Just like a lot of other languages in the world.


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## smanm2016 (Jul 29, 2015)

Thank you for this....yes, that's what it is, passive income. I had forgotten what type of the visa was called, that's it. I do add new products and promotions, however the "organic" sales would be enough to support our expenses. 

the language course could be an option as well, as we do want to learn anyway.

Is what I described doing considered "working remotely" and "illegal and immoral"?....I may be missing something.

Thank you again....really appreciate it



Nononymous said:


> This is general advice that applies to most EU countries, not only Spain.
> 
> If you are planning on working remotely at a US-based job, you may have difficulty obtaining a visa for a one-year stay. Though you are obviously not "taking jobs away from the locals" it still counts as working in Spain, which technically requires a work permit, and paying into the tax and social-security system, and so forth. Not straightforward.
> 
> ...


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## smanm2016 (Jul 29, 2015)

Thank you again...all extremely useful information to consider. 

I know this is a huge undertaking, which is partially why we are doing it.



Nononymous said:


> On the subject of hauling kids over for a change of scene, it's a cool idea that I hugely support.
> 
> We took our daughter to Germany almost every summer from age three, for stays of six weeks to six months. Early on we put her in day care for language immersion, enrolled her for half a year in regular schools at grades 4 and 8, and also summer camps. Her German is quite good now.
> 
> ...


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## smanm2016 (Jul 29, 2015)

so all the other languages on the map are totally different from each other? How do they relate to Spanish in other countries. Like If someone learned Spanish in Peru or Mexico, they wouldn't understand Spanish in Spain?



xabiachica said:


> I live in the Valencia region
> 
> I speak Castellano my children went through school studying in both Castellano & Valenciano
> 
> ...


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## smanm2016 (Jul 29, 2015)

Thank you...what do you mean when you say " the language used in the school of your children might be of concern."?



más chueco que la fayuca said:


> I don't know if OP is still around. You don't need to worry about regional languages - almost everyone will speak to you in Spanish or English. If you are a beginner in Spanish I wouldn't think what variety of Spanish you are immersed in will matter much, either.
> 
> Except, as Xabiachica has noted, the language used in the school of your children might be of concern.
> 
> There's two unlabeled languages on the map - I believe they are Asturian and Aragonese - but don't worry, you won't hear them. They're endangered. Just like a lot of other languages in the world.


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## smanm2016 (Jul 29, 2015)

Anyone out there who made the move to Spain with children?

Thanks


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

smanm2016 said:


> so all the other languages on the map are totally different from each other? How do they relate to Spanish in other countries. Like If someone learned Spanish in Peru or Mexico, they wouldn't understand Spanish in Spain?


In some cases the Spanish of certain 'New world' countries is purer than the Spanish of Spain. For example the Spanish of Colombia (I'm not over-familiar with that of others) still uses the formal and familiar forms seriously, whereas, in Spain it is to large extent, only the elderly who will use 'usted'. You will also encounter the differences between how the letters 'c' and 'z' are pronounced.


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

I learned Spanish mostly in Texas, the gateway to Mexico. I also taught some ESL classes to Mexican adults. I have also travelled in South America. There are differences in dialects but all are well understood worldwide with nuances. ,Basque however, is a world in itself. I came here thinking I could speak Spanish but was surprised that I could barely get by. That was because colloquial use of Spanish is so different from that of the classroom. After three years of advanced classes here, I can understand most of what is said to me, can communicate effectively and can understand most newspapers.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

smanm2016 said:


> Thank you for the reply. I have heard this but don't really know what it means. I've heard that Catalan in Barcelona in very different from Spanish but the others are more like the difference between British and US English. Can you shed light.
> 
> Anything else to add? Do you live there? with kids?
> 
> Thanks



The comment about British and US English is usually made when comparing European Spanish and South American Spanish, so there are differences in vocabulary and pronounciation mainly (some small grammatical differences like the ones pointed out by Baldilocks), but communication is fairly easy.
In Spain some of the languages are fairly similar, some are not spoken widely, but there are different languages. Here is an example sentence that gives you an idea 
I live in the east of the country
Spanish/ Castellano - Vivo en el este del país
Catalan - Jo visc a l'est del país
Valenciano - Viu en l'est del país
Galician - Eu vivo no leste do país 
Basque - Bizi naiz, herrialdearen ekialdean
So, you can see all are different to Castellano, especially the Basque. Is that going to make any difference to you coming here short term? I would say that it may effect the children greatly as the greatest push with these languages is with children's education. 
Children officially start school at the age of 6, but where I am for example I don't know of one single child who started at that age. Most start the year they are 3. Reasons may be to assure the place at the school the parents want, working parents need their children in "free" facilities, getting children started in education. That means there are few nursery/ preschool places available for "older" children.
In the Basque country for example there are supposeed to be schools that teach the majority in Spanish, half and half and the majority in Basque. In reality it's very difficult to find a school other than the last option above.
In Catalonia the majority of people speak Spanish, but Catalan is the language spoken most widely and after living there for a while some people expect you to start speaking Catalan. That was my and others experience anyway. 
You may find more children's activities like theatre, library activities, sports etc offered in a local language than in Spanish.
I'm not trying to put you off, just to make you aware. Either way, living abroad for a year with young children will be an enriching experience and lots of fun, but if you want the children to learn Spanish you might want to take that into consideration when choosing where to live.

However, as other have mentioned first on the list are visas and work situation.

Yes, I live here (just look at the top of each post. It gives a little info about the poster.) I have one daughter who was born here, and she is Spanish as is her father. A lot of people have come here with their children, but I don't know if any of them have posted on here yet.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

smanm2016 said:


> Anyone out there who made the move to Spain with children?
> 
> Thanks


me 

As PeskyWesky says, the regional languages are very different from each other & also very different from Castellano

When we arrived, none of us spoke any Spanish. I learned Castellano (Spanish) & my children learned both Castellano & Valenciano, as I posted earlier

They were young enough to just get on with it - for me it was harder. Many parents never learn Castellano, let alone Valenciano, so I wouldn't be overly concerned about it tbh

I'm now in the position (12 years later) where I'm reasonably fluent in Castellano ( I studied hard) & understand just about all written & most spoken Valenciano (without studying, which I now intend to do) 

The locals here all speak to each other in Valenciano - but can, apart from a few older people, also speak Castellano


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

> [B said:
> 
> 
> > xabiachica;7929713[/B]
> ...


Yes, just to be clear, if I was coming here* to live *with young children I don't know if I'd be concerned about Valenciano/ Castellano, but the difference is when someone's coming short term with the idea of their children learning some Spanish.
Also short term for the parents being exposed to 2 languages is not the easiest of situations


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## MalagaBob (Apr 14, 2015)

Hi just to address some of your concerns and questions.

I moved to Spain 8 years ago from the UK with my wife.

Bit daunting at the thought of leaving loved ones, family, friends, job, house etc... but looking back its the best thing I ever did.

Im sure a lot of people reflecting on making the same move would say its not as big a challenge as first expected.

Fair enough UK is less than 3 hours away by plane. But we moved for lifestyle reasons and a new stimulus to life.

We started a family here in Spain and there has been challenges but like all challenges in life you deal with them and move on.

We are living in Andalucia and love it. The people, climate and friends we have made help us easily overcome the obstacles that life throws in your path.

If you learn South American Spanish or know some you will be clearly understood in Andalucia region.

Like a previous poster mentioned English and Spanish are understood all over Spain to some degree there are a plethre of expat regions throughout Spain.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

smanm2016 said:


> Thank you for this....yes, that's what it is, passive income. I had forgotten what type of the visa was called, that's it. I do add new products and promotions, however the "organic" sales would be enough to support our expenses.
> 
> the language course could be an option as well, as we do want to learn anyway.
> 
> Is what I described doing considered "working remotely" and "illegal and immoral"?....I may be missing something.


Ultimately it's up to the consulate to decide. Until then it's all a bit theoretical. I'm not sure which approach is better, non-lucrative or student visa. Do whatever works - presumably you'd not be prevented from attending language school if you were on the non-lucrative visa.

"Illegal and immoral" was a reference to some debates we've had here in the past. There are lots of people in the digital world who can work anywhere with an internet connection, and want to know how they can set up on a Spanish beach or Greek island for a few years to enjoy a change of scene. Since most governments haven't really caught up to this possibility, it's not easy to get a work permit and pay local taxes and all that - to do it fully legally. So then you go to workarounds - hopping in and out of Schengen every 90 days, or signing up for a student or non-lucrative visa - and keep your financial affairs to yourself. This seems to offend a certain percentage of the audience.


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## xolo (May 25, 2014)

smanm2016 said:


> Thank you...what do you mean when you say " the language used in the school of your children might be of concern."?


I was just seconding Xabiachica's comment that you might want to think about whether or not you want your children taught in a regional language, depending on whether you want them to learn Spanish or a regional language. (BTW, a factor in measuring the health of a language, so some regional languages are quite healthy)

I also second Baldi's excellent comment about the "new world" (Nice quotes Baldi because it wasn't _new _and it wasn't a _conquest_). The neutral core of the Spanish language is not in Burgos, it is in the Americas, be that Mexico, Peru (locations of the vice-roayalties) or Columbia. So I wouldn't obsess on whether they speak with _seseo _or _differenciación_ (ie, the variety of Spanish)


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## smanm2016 (Jul 29, 2015)

Thank you all for the info. It's much appreciated


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

One other obvious thing to consider - if you yourselves don't have much Spanish, you will need to look for pre-school or child care setup where at least someone on staff speaks enough English for minimal communication with parents.


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## smanm2016 (Jul 29, 2015)

makes sense also and would go same for doctors, etc.

Thanks again



Nononymous said:


> One other obvious thing to consider - if you yourselves don't have much Spanish, you will need to look for pre-school or child care setup where at least someone on staff speaks enough English for minimal communication with parents.


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## GUAPACHICA (Jun 30, 2012)

Nononymous said:


> Ultimately it's up to the consulate to decide. Until then it's all a bit theoretical. I'm not sure which approach is better, non-lucrative or student visa. Do whatever works - presumably you'd not be prevented from attending language school if you were on the non-lucrative visa.
> 
> "Illegal and immoral" was a reference to some debates we've had here in the past. There are lots of people in the digital world who can work anywhere with an internet connection, and want to know how they can set up on a Spanish beach or Greek island for a few years to enjoy a change of scene. Since most governments haven't really caught up to this possibility, it's not easy to get a work permit and pay local taxes and all that - to do it fully legally. So then you go to workarounds - hopping in and out of Schengen every 90 days, or signing up for a student or non-lucrative visa - and keep your financial affairs to yourself. This seems to offend a certain percentage of the audience.


Hi - Well, it might be considered 'offensive' for either a Canadian or US citizen to bring their family to Spain for a year, claiming to be taking a 'sabbatical' from work, in order to be eligible for a visa, whilst, actually, earning income, albeit 'digitally, without paying any taxes!

For instance; wouldn't the family concerned wish to use any of the Public Services which are funded out of taxes paid by Spanish people, legal expats. and migrants..? Would the family expect to be able to call the Police or the Fire Brigade, in case of emergency? Would they want to have their household rubbish collected? Would they plan to drive on Spanish roads - or to use Spanish Public transport systems? What about their wish to enroll their child in a Spanish Public school - who would be funding the teachers and all resources? 

Do you really think that it would be appropriate for a US family to take advantage of Spanish hospitality and generosity, by lying and cheating the Spanish people - who are still grappling with the horrendous economic crisis and its terrible effects - unemployment; homelessness; extreme poverty etc? 

I am well aware that the OP has not suggested that she/he and the family would consider behaving in such a way - but had simply requested advice and answers to his/her questions!. My response is to your own cynical and derogatory attitude towards Spain and its people.

I doubt that either Canada or the US would welcome Europeans cheating their way into those countries, families in tow, to take advantage of a generous visa arrangement, to stay for a year, using all Public services freely - whilst hiding their incomes and paying no taxes into the system! 

If you knew any Spaniards, you would know that, in the main, they are incredibly hospitable, welcoming and very kind towards us - the foreigners, here - despite the appalling hardships they've been suffering, as I've mentioned.

The tone of your comment on the likelihood of 'offence' being caused, within this forum, by your suggestions re. the OP's visa requirements, leads me to conclude that you have failed to appreciate the nature of the great benefits which would accrue to that family, from spending a wonderful year, living openly and honestly, in the company of Spanish people, in their country - rather than their coming here from the US, making friends with local people and accepting their hospitality, whilst knowing that the info. given in the original visa application, giving access to all those wonderful experiences, had not been entirely honest!

Saludos
GC.


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## smanm2016 (Jul 29, 2015)

Thank you. This is very helpful. Would it be ok if I PM you at some point?



MalagaBob said:


> Hi just to address some of your concerns and questions.
> 
> I moved to Spain 8 years ago from the UK with my wife.
> 
> ...


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## Leanne7011 (Jan 4, 2013)

smanm2016 said:


> Anyone out there who made the move to Spain with children?
> 
> Thanks


Hi! 

My situation was a bit different but I moved from Ireland with my son who was 1 and a half for a year. We lived in Alicante as I spent the year studying. The only thing I worried about was nursery and accomodation which was all sorted pretty quick. He was covered under private healthcare but I still registered him locally which took 5 minutes with our passport. I only needed to open a student bank account which wasn't difficult either but in your case it could be different. overall we had a great year and intend on returning next year. Please ask any questions, I'm not sure if I can be much help though


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## marcia burrell (Aug 14, 2015)

Hi 

Check out Lisa Sadleir on facebook she has a website with a whole host of useful and practical information for families moving to Spain. Called Family life in Spain.

Hope it helps


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

GUAPACHICA said:


> Hi - Well, it might be considered 'offensive' for either a Canadian or US citizen to bring their family to Spain for a year, claiming to be taking a 'sabbatical' from work, in order to be eligible for a visa, whilst, actually, earning income, albeit 'digitally, without paying any taxes!


I swore I wouldn’t get into this again, but it’s a quiet lazy Friday and there’s still an hour before the Bundesliga kicks off, so here goes.

It would be ideal if there was some sort of “digital visa” whereby you could live in a country for a few years, pay your taxes there, but work remotely for a job located somewhere else. I’d be all for it. What a wonderful way for depressed economies in pleasant places (e.g. Spain, Portugal, Greece) to bring in money. But there isn’t, yet, so if one wants to do that sort of thing, one needs to find a workaround.

Remote work is not new, by the way - journalists, writers and others have done this for centuries. But current technology makes it far easier, and available to greater numbers. There are some pretty interesting “digital nomads” out there now, often in Southeast Asia and South and Central America. In its most extreme form they move on every three to six months, from one tourist visa to the next, with no fixed tax abode.

Regarding use of infrastructure, I don’t really see how camping out and working for a year or two differs from ordinary tourism. Legally a US or Canadian citizen can spend 50 percent of their time in Schengen (90 days in, 90 days out) and repeat this year after year, without having any form of local tax obligation. Over ten years that’s five years’ usage of roads, bridges, airports, train stations, fire departments, etc. (I could share an apartment in Berlin with a like-minded foreigner and live half my life there without paying the German government a dime - entirely legally.) Now if Spain or France gives you a non-lucrative visa, that’s only one year of using infrastructure without any contribution. 

How does it differ if the person on this visa supports themselves not with savings but passive income from investments or an online business (such as revenue from app sales) or even from working a regular shift as a programmer? From the host country's perspective, I can’t see the distinction. Those visas are quite legal, available for the modestly well-heeled visitor who wants to relocate for a year.

There’s no suggestion of using the health care system, since visitors need to provide their own private health insurance. Schools are a trickier issue, which I’ll discuss later.

Canada, incidentally, lets visitors from abroad stay up to six months as tourists, and they can renew to continue visiting the country provided they make a case that can support themselves and plan to leave again. It’s also relatively easy to obtain a study permit to come and learn English. Once here I don’t see that it makes one bit of difference whether this visit is financed by savings, passive income or working remotely for a job in, say, Denmark.

What I’ve found odd about this debate is the argument that a visitor to a country earning income outside it is somehow doing damage. It’s really not that different from tourism. They are still making an economic contribution, by renting and shopping and eating out and paying VAT. It’s not their fault the host country can’t figure out how to tax them on income. The argument that they have an unfair advantage over the locals by not paying the same taxes doesn’t really fly; they are temporary visitors, and frankly the playing field is never going to be close to level - if for example they have an IT job they might be making ten times the local median income. Either you want those folks spending money in your town (year-round, not just in tourist season) or you don’t.

This reminds me of the trailing spouse issue. Depending on the country and situation, one half of a couple may not be entitled to a work permit, so cannot work locally. But if they have opportunity to work remotely for an offshore job, under the table as it were, what should they do? The alternatives are (i) sit at home all day doing nothing and making no money; (ii) sit at home all day working and making money that you then spend in the local economy. Which is more beneficial for the host country, assuming it can’t figure out a way to tax this work?

As an aside, note that even if such a “digital visa” did exist, tax revenues would depend on the honesty of the taxpayer. The host nation has no easy way to verify offshore income. It would be an honour system. Via the French forum I’ve heard of cases where people working remotely while visiting for a year (either on the non-lucrative visa or as trailing spouses) have attempted to file tax returns but were told not to bother as it was just too confusing to deal with.

School is the one area that’s a bit trickier. Typically if you are legally resident somewhere, you are obliged to send your children to school, and entitled to use public education. However, living somewhere for a couple of years, using the schools, and not paying taxes does present an ethical problem. Even for me! 

In Canada, our schools charge a considerable amount of money (about 1000 euro/month) for foreign students if they are not part of a direct exchange, which is understandable given the demand for learning English in Europe and Asia. If a family came here for six or twelve months as visitors, I expect they would not be allowed to enrol their children in a local school for free; I'm not sure about the children of foreign university students here on a study permit.

Our experience in Germany isn’t much of a guide. For both half-year sabbaticals (which as academic exchanges gave us residence permits without work permits, and no obligation to pay taxes) we could enrol our daughter in the local public school, free of charge. We paid our karmic debt by negotiating a “retroactive exchange” visit for one of her friends, who otherwise could not have afforded to attend school in Canada. On shorter visits when she was younger, we paid cash for pre-school - there was no point trying to navigate the bureaucracy so the facilities simply charged us the maximum rate for the highest income category; I’m sure money went into an off-the-books account but was put to good use. 

Upshot is, I’m not sure how it would work out putting children into public school or pre-school in Spain while on a one-year non-lucrative visa. Probably it’s without charge and no problem at all, if only due to the fact that this would be the bureaucratically simplest solution to an untypical situation. If it troubles your conscience to be getting this service for free when you’re not paying taxes, make a charitable donation to the school or find some other way to help.


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## smanm2016 (Jul 29, 2015)

Thank you ....I will



marcia burrell said:


> Hi
> 
> Check out Lisa Sadleir on facebook she has a website with a whole host of useful and practical information for families moving to Spain. Called Family life in Spain.
> 
> Hope it helps


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## kdsb (May 3, 2015)

We are planning a similar move next summer and have found these blogs very helpful. Both people with school aged kids who moved to Spain on non-lucrative visas and enrolled kids in public schools.

Bucking the Trend - A Personal Finance site morphing into a Family Expat travel blog
Family Travel Site Wagoners Abroad | An American Family Travel Blog – Sharing Adventure, Experiences, Mishaps, Expert Travel Tips and Inspiration


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

kdsb said:


> We are planning a similar move next summer and have found these blogs very helpful. Both people with school aged kids who moved to Spain on non-lucrative visas and enrolled kids in public schools.
> 
> Bucking the Trend - A Personal Finance site morphing into a Family Expat travel blog
> Family Travel Site Wagoners Abroad | An American Family Travel Blog – Sharing Adventure, Experiences, Mishaps, Expert Travel Tips and Inspiration


Well there you go. All that debate for nothing. Based on the first example, you can request a non-lucrative visa based on income from not working in Spain, as opposed to savings. 

I'd dig a little deeper but I imagine that they have no Spanish tax obligations (as one is essentially an extended visitor not a long-term resident) but apparently they've still been able to put their kids into public school. Pretty good deal. (Even better deal if one stays for a year and can use the FEIE to reduce or eliminate US taxes.)


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

Taxes in the U.S. Are never eliminated.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

Elyles said:


> Taxes in the U.S. Are never eliminated.


You can take the FEIE against the first $100k of income if you live outside the US, even if that income is US-based, apparently.


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## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

kdsb said:


> We are planning a similar move next summer and have found these blogs very helpful. Both people with school aged kids who moved to Spain on non-lucrative visas and enrolled kids in public schools.
> 
> Bucking the Trend - A Personal Finance site morphing into a Family Expat travel blog
> Family Travel Site Wagoners Abroad | An American Family Travel Blog – Sharing Adventure, Experiences, Mishaps, Expert Travel Tips and Inspiration


I spent some time reading the first one, looked a bit at the second. 

The first family managed to apply for a year based on savings rather than income and it looks like at least one of them isn't working. But what emerged from the others' experiences in the comments section is that the consulates in the US seem more concerned with their "not taking a job away from a Spaniard" rather than where the money is coming from, as long as there is a sufficient mix of savings and steady income, be it of the passive or active (i.e. telecommuting) variety. 

Not clear from either blog what the tax situation is, there's very little mention of it, which suggests that a family coming over on a non-lucrative visa stays outside the Spanish income tax system. This may change if they renew the visas for another one to four years, which apparently they're entitled to do.


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