# Calgary vs Vancouver vs Victoria for a Software Engineer



## Sylhos (Mar 17, 2011)

Hello everyone.
I am a Software Engineer when Software development and IT project management experience. I have worked with international companies all my professional life, so I expect to quickly understand the so called "Canadian business culture and experience".
I am hispanic, 34, with a 3y/o girl and wife. Our family was approved as PR and we "checked-in" through Calgary, but we didn't stay long due to family issues we had to come back and attend.
Now I am considering to go back but never had the chance to really estimate expenses or evaluate the market. We are looking for a city with the following conditions:
- Good weather: We prefer central and west of Canada for that reason. We can stand cold, but do not like annual cold fronts frequencies in other cities.
- Family oriented and clean: Our country of origin has come short in terms of open areas (parks, etc) and has filled almost every spot with buildings.
- Affordable for an average lifestyle: We are not europeans. Our taste for dining or clothing is not of brands but primarily quality (gap for example), but we like to eat out on the weekends and occasionally watch a hockey game, a rock concert or go to the movies. Again, pretty average I believe.
We like to do short family trips and love the parks for bike riding, skating, tennis playing, hockey. Good air and safety to enjoy those activities is a very good plus for us.

In terms of professional growth, I understand you can't get to where you want to be immediately, but I want to be able to provide for my family the best I can. My wife is a dentist, but her english needs some refreshment, plus her activity is regulated, so it may take her some time to help me with the family income. Still, she has very good experience managing personnel, working on HR and is very willing to continue her professional growth.

Here are the concrete questions:
1. Which of these cities you think best meet the mentioned needs, considering my profession and our lifestyle.
2. What would be a good salary to make a living? We live in a 1900sqft apartment (that truly feels like 1700 due to wasted space architecture) and intend to look for a place near the 1600sqft in Canada, since we have extra space here to host visitors. Oh, I don't know how hard is to get a house loan, so we will start by renting.

I seriously appreciate all the information you can provide us, as it determines the amount of effort I will spend looking for a job and housing in the particular city.

Thank you for sharing!

Vic


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

Sylhos said:


> Hello everyone.
> I am a Software Engineer when Software development and IT project management experience. I have worked with international companies all my professional life, so I expect to quickly understand the so called "Canadian business culture and experience".
> I am hispanic, 34, with a 3y/o girl and wife. Our family was approved as PR and we "checked-in" through Calgary, but we didn't stay long due to family issues we had to come back and attend.
> Now I am considering to go back but never had the chance to really estimate expenses or evaluate the market. We are looking for a city with the following conditions:
> ...


As far as weather goes, the Vancouver and Victoria areas are almost identical all year, usually mild winters with a very small % of days below freezing (unlike Calgary) also most winters will get little or no snow, (also unlike Calgary) and when (if) it does snow, it usually melts within a day or two. Mid march average temps in Calgary are 5c, but here they are 10, our winters start later and end sooner, and are not as harsh as Calgary. Van and Vic are also on the water, Calgary is about 500 miles inland. As far as IT tech jobs, the Vancouver area being alot larger would obviously be better than Victoria. Knowing people who live in/near all 3 cities, I think you will find rent to be about the same overall, the closer to downtown, the more expensive, but then it all depends on nieghbourhoods, age and ammenaties of building etc, although living just outside Van, can still be expensive when compared to living just outside Victoria. I think a 1600sq ft apartment or condo in any city will be hard to find, at least at a decent price. Just remember, you get what you pay for.


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## Sylhos (Mar 17, 2011)

gringotim said:


> As far as weather goes, the Vancouver and Victoria areas are almost identical all year, usually mild winters with a very small % of days below freezing (unlike Calgary) also most winters will get little or no snow, (also unlike Calgary) and when (if) it does snow, it usually melts within a day or two. Mid march average temps in Calgary are 5c, but here they are 10, our winters start later and end sooner, and are not as harsh as Calgary. Van and Vic are also on the water, Calgary is about 500 miles inland. As far as IT tech jobs, the Vancouver area being alot larger would obviously be better than Victoria. Knowing people who live in/near all 3 cities, I think you will find rent to be about the same overall, the closer to downtown, the more expensive, but then it all depends on nieghbourhoods, age and ammenaties of building etc, although living just outside Van, can still be expensive when compared to living just outside Victoria. I think a 1600sq ft apartment or condo in any city will be hard to find, at least at a decent price. Just remember, you get what you pay for.


Assuming I go for Vancouver, would you help me guestimating a favorable or acceptable income according to the cost of living and my family size and lifestyle.? anyone has an idea?


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

Sylhos said:


> Assuming I go for Vancouver, would you help me guestimating a favorable or acceptable income according to the cost of living and my family size and lifestyle.? anyone has an idea?


Thats almost impossible to answer with any accuracy, for example, just choosing one grocery store over another could save you $1000 a year or more, some people might get by on $40,000 a year where as others might need $60,000 or more. But I would suggest a household income for 2 adults/1 child, of at least $60,000 if not $70,000 or more. I know people who bring in $90,000 and live pay check to pay check, but other people who only bring in $40,000 and still have money left over.


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## Sylhos (Mar 17, 2011)

Thank you. That is gold info. I know it is a very subjective matter, but I wanted a "safe zone" to be base on.
All the best!


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## kimo (Feb 12, 2011)

Sylhos said:


> Assuming I go for Vancouver, would you help me guestimating a favorable or acceptable income according to the cost of living and my family size and lifestyle.? anyone has an idea?


If you are looking to rent something around 1600sq ft, you should also consider looking at basement suites, you might get more bang for your buck.. For example, we live on Vancouver Island, about an hour north of Victoria so rents here are cheaper than Vancouver/Victoria, but as an example, we have a basement suite that is 1500 sq ft , 2 bdrms, liv, dine, kitchen, 4pc bath, laundry and a storage room that we rent out for $900 incl utilities, its a nice neighbour hood, houses are under 20 years old and most lots are 1/2 to 3/4 acre. whereas a comparible size apt in town or house (old with small yard) will rent for at least $1000(apt) or $1200-$1400 plus utilities(house). So before renting an apt in Vancouver, you should check out basenment suites. Just FYI, a large percentage of people that work in Vancouver, probably don't live in Vancouver, because of the cost of housing, they live outside of the city and commute. Another thing you need to look at for cost of living is will you be using public transport, or driving your own car, because gas, insurance, parking in the city etc can really add up. :car:


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## born_expat (Mar 18, 2011)

Sylhos said:


> Hello everyone.
> I am a Software Engineer when Software development and IT project management experience. I have worked with international companies all my professional life, so I expect to quickly understand the so called "Canadian business culture and experience".
> I am hispanic, 34, with a 3y/o girl and wife. Our family was approved as PR and we "checked-in" through Calgary, but we didn't stay long due to family issues we had to come back and attend.
> Now I am considering to go back but never had the chance to really estimate expenses or evaluate the market. We are looking for a city with the following conditions:
> ...


Hi Vic

Sorry to be hogging your thread, but I see you have a very similar professional profile to me (I was IT consultant for years implementing long software projects, and then I became IT project manager, managing the same projects). I was under the impression that one could not enter Canada and apply for work without a firm offer of employment, and that even then, the employer had to prove that they had exhausted Canadian possibilities to fill that post. 

Question 1: How did you get around that hurdle? 

Question 2: Also, as you've had a stay in Canada before, how did you find looking for work once you were there? Are there real structural barriers to foreigners applying for jobs, or is the legislation (to give priorities to Canadians) not that much of a hurdle?


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## born_expat (Mar 18, 2011)

born_expat said:


> Hi Vic
> 
> Sorry to be hogging your thread, but I see you have a very similar professional profile to me (I was IT consultant for years implementing long software projects, and then I became IT project manager, managing the same projects). I was under the impression that one could not enter Canada and apply for work without a firm offer of employment, and that even then, the employer had to prove that they had exhausted Canadian possibilities to fill that post.
> 
> ...


I need to elaborate on question 2, as it sounds like question 1 but it isn't. What I want to ask is: as a foreigner, entering the country with job a, and then wanting to change job, is the job market really difficult for foreigners because of that legislation? So with question 2, I am not talking about your entry job.


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## Sylhos (Mar 17, 2011)

I actually have a permanent resident status. It took me about a year and a half by means of the skilled worker immigration package.
What I am trying to say is that I did not look for a sponsor when applying.
when I finally landed, i talked to a couple of recruiters but left too soon to participate in any interview. Still, the people I met in Calgary was nothing but friendly and great hosts. Including the government staff!
The major obstacle I perceived, though, in my case, was that my competency and international experience was in doubt due to the lack of recognizable certificates or local (canadian) experience.
It did bug me as I have worked with banks in Panama and the US and other very demanding customers, but at times a three month certificate seems to get you farther.


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## born_expat (Mar 18, 2011)

Sylhos said:


> I actually have a permanent resident status. It took me about a year and a half by means of the skilled worker immigration package.
> What I am trying to say is that I did not look for a sponsor when applying.
> when I finally landed, i talked to a couple of recruiters but left too soon to participate in any interview. Still, the people I met in Calgary was nothing but friendly and great hosts. Including the government staff!
> The major obstacle I perceived, though, in my case, was that my competency and international experience was in doubt due to the lack of recognizable certificates or local (canadian) experience.
> It did bug me as I have worked with banks in Panama and the US and other very demanding customers, but at times a three month certificate seems to get you farther.


Oh, interesting, thank you so much. 

I checked the jobs listed under skilled workers and, at least yesterday, mine was nowhere near. It was more dentists (your wife would put you in great steads there), psychologists and other care providers, and some scientific positions. So project manager (or software developer, in your case?) was the position on the skilled workers list at the time? Good to hear it's possible for some IT jobs at time (husband is a web developer/programmer). 

You got a permanent residence? Way to go! I thought you waited for years for these things! Good on you!

Mmmmh, I'll have to check if PRINCE2 (project management training) and the likes are transferable. 

Local experience: I think I'll ask to do a project or two in Canada first. Am sure that'll help my case. Thanks for warning me of the demand for local experience. 

Thanks for the reassuring words about how welcome you felt. That is certainly the impression I got on my very short stay too. 

Good luck!


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## dreama (Nov 24, 2010)

If given the choice between Vancouver and Victoria - I would choose Victoria. It is gorgeous here, the weather is awesome most of the year. It does have a rainy winter, but snow is hardly existent, and the grass is green, and there are flowers year round. One of the nicknames Victoria has acquired is "home of the newlyweds and nearly deads" because of the abundance of retirees who prefer the climate, and the abundance of young families with children. Spring, summer, and fall are gorgeous here, with little rain in the summer. Last summer I think we had 3 days all summer where it rained. The rest of the time it was sunny and warm. You don't have to go far out of Victoria to enjoy the gorgeous wilderness and beautiful ocean. Housing prices are expensive in Victoria, but if you plan to rent, there are plenty of options. 

As for your career prospects, I'm afraid I don't know much about that.

Good luck!


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