# Safe to Drive Hwys?



## chulor (Aug 19, 2013)

From the Lake Chapala area, is it safe to drive to:

Guadalajara?
Puerto Vallarta?
Areas between Lake Chapala and the US?

And (hate to have to ask) can you always (mostly) trust the Police?

c


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

I do not think your gonna get jacked by bandits but other drivers think there in the Indy 500...


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

chulor said:


> From the Lake Chapala area, is it safe to drive to:
> 
> Guadalajara? *Yes*
> Puerto Vallarta? *Yes*
> ...


There are no guarantees in life. The above answers are based on my experience. Mostly I take buses, but I have driven around as well, often on back roads, sometimes at night. I frequently hitchhike in rural areas. I have never had a problem. My only experience with the police was in a tiny town (Guadalupe y Calvo) near the Zacatecas-Chihuahua-Durango intersection. We were trying to find a mountain and the local police got in their truck and led us to the base of it.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> There are no guarantees in life. The above answers are based on my experience. Mostly I take buses, but I have driven around as well, often on back roads, sometimes at night. I frequently hitchhike in rural areas. I have never had a problem. My only experience with the police was in a tiny town (Guadalupe y Calvo) near the Zacatecas-Chihuahua-Durango intersection. We were trying to find a mountain and the local police got in their truck and led us to the base of it.


Would you recommend that a woman on her own drive on back roads at night or hitchhike in rural areas?


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

We drive ole Bessie between Lake Chapala and San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas, a distance at its shortest, of some 1,500 kilometers. Sometimes we go through Veracruz State from Puebla to Minatitlan to Tuxtla GUtierrez and sometimes we go through Puebla to Oaxaca City and Tehuatepec and on to Arriaga and home to San Cristóbal and then sometimes we head through the primitive Costa Chica up through Guererro through Acapulco and then on to such places as Taxco and then on to the lake and, By God, we are still here. Watch out for Taxco, however, if you start rolling down a hill in that town you may end up drowning in the Pacific. That is one steep town. I once dropped some eyeglasses there and picked them up in Cuenevaca impeccably polished by pine needles. Some fartblossom tried to sell them to me but he did not succeed.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> Would you recommend that a woman on her own drive on back roads at night or hitchhike in rural areas?


Yes. Most of the rides I get when I hitchhike are in the back of pickups. Usually, it is a couple in the front. Driving at night, the biggest danger is hitting a tope (speed bump).

But everybody's tolerance for risk is different. People have to do what they are comfortable with. I don't hitchhike in the US.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> Would you recommend that a woman on her own drive on back roads at night or hitchhike in rural areas?


I would definitely not recommend it


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> Yes. Most of the rides I get when I hitchhike are in the back of pickups. Usually, it is a couple in the front. Driving at night, the biggest danger is hitting a tope (speed bump).
> 
> But everybody's tolerance for risk is different. People have to do what they are comfortable with. I don't hitchhike in the US.


Speaking as a woman of "a certain age", I wouldn't be comfortable hitching a ride in Mexico City, much less on a lonely country road.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


TundraGreen said:



Yes. Most of the rides I get when I hitchhike are in the back of pickups. Usually, it is a couple in the front. Driving at night, the biggest danger is hitting a tope (speed bump).

But everybody's tolerance for risk is different. People have to do what they are comfortable with. I don't hitchhike in the US.

Click to expand...

_Between San Cristóbal de Las Casasa nd Pelenque, Chiapas, a distance of maybe 350 kilometers at most . there are at least 280 topes, many unmarked and quite dangerous. Most are under the jurisdiction of indigenous villagers who do not give a damn what you think about their traffic control procedures. I suggest you respect their prerogetives . It´s an oterwise nice drive if a bit hampered by road obstructions placed here and there at random by people disinclined to seek you opniion.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> Speaking as a woman of "a certain age", I wouldn't be comfortable hitching a ride in Mexico City, much less on a lonely country road.


In my opinion, hitchhiking in Mexico City would be far, far more hazardous than hitchhiking in some rural area. I never hitchhike in large cities. Not to mention that no one would pick you up even if you tried. 

But I appreciate that the world is a different place for women than it is for men.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> In my opinion, hitchhiking in Mexico City would be far, far more hazardous than hitchhiking in some rural area. I never hitchhike in large cities. Not to mention that no one would pick you up even if you tried.
> 
> But I appreciate that the world is a different place for women than it is for men.


It certainly is!


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I have hitch rides in rural Chiapas but always with a man. It is common there to hitch rides where there is no public transportation available and it is also the custom to offer money for the ride. You usually get picked up on the back of a pick up but not always.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

I suggest you approach the "are the police honest" types of questions from the starting point that most police in Mexico are your enemy ... not to be confused with "we serve and protect" (persons other than the criminal element) and honesty. "Topes" are oftentimes the greatest risk one facts on some of the nation's (non-toll) roadways. If you're not accustomed to them, it'll be quite an experience.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I would say that in driving at night ther are more dangers than topes, animals potholes and the risk of breaking down leaving you stranded on the side of the rod. During the day most of the time someone will stop to help you but I would not want to be at the mercy of the first person who stops at night. We were stranded once for many hours during the day because a metal piece on the road slahed out tires and damaged the underside of the car. We were in the middle of nowhere in Vera Cruz state and altough it was bad because of the beating sun , I sure was happy it was not dark. Another time my husband broke down going to SL Potosi , it was dark and raining by the time someone helped him and it is not a good situation to find oneself in.
Another time my husband flipped the car at night on a mountain road and the municipal cops who got him out lifted his wallet. I demanded to get the Federal cops on the site and told them the municipal cops had robbed him and they told me they believed me but that was not their job to do anything about it. By the time all this ended (it started at 8pm) we found ourselves in the jungle on a mountain road at 2am, the Federales took us to the hotel and extorted money out of me...If someone ask me if the cops can be trusted, I would say sometimes but you are better off not having any dealings with them without any witnesses.


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## cj007 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Agreed*



TundraGreen said:


> There are no guarantees in life. The above answers are based on my experience. Mostly I take buses, but I have driven around as well, often on back roads, sometimes at night. I frequently hitchhike in rural areas. I have never had a problem. My only experience with the police was in a tiny town (Guadalupe y Calvo) near the Zacatecas-Chihuahua-Durango intersection. We were trying to find a mountain and the local police got in their truck and led us to the base of it.


Agreed. People are kinder and the world is a safer place then some would have you believe in general. But as always use your head and have your wits about you. And a a lil hidden cash in your socks never killed anyone.

:fingerscrossed:


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

citlali said:


> I would say that in driving at night ther are more dangers than topes, animals potholes and the risk of breaking down leaving you stranded on the side of the rod. During the day most of the time someone will stop to help you but I would not want to be at the mercy of the first person who stops at night. We were stranded once for many hours during the day because a metal piece on the road slahed out tires and damaged the underside of the car. We were in the middle of nowhere in Vera Cruz state and altough it was bad because of the beating sun , I sure was happy it was not dark. Another time my husband broke down going to SL Potosi , it was dark and raining by the time someone helped him and it is not a good situation to find oneself in.
> Another time my husband flipped the car at night on a mountain road and the municipal cops who got him out lifted his wallet. I demanded to get the Federal cops on the site and told them the municipal cops had robbed him and they told me they believed me but that was not their job to do anything about it. By the time all this ended (it started at 8pm) we found ourselves in the jungle on a mountain road at 2am, the Federales took us to the hotel and extorted money out of me...If someone ask me if the cops can be trusted, I would say sometimes but you are better off not having any dealings with them without any witnesses.


Ask Rodney King


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


GARYJ65 said:



Ask Rodney King

Click to expand...

_
Rodnry King s dead. Citlali´s husband is still allive partly thanks to having paid off the local cops and federal cops on the border of Mexico and Guatemala on the desolate slopes of the Tacaná Volcano in the middle of the morning in the pitch black darkness about 50 kilometers outside of Tapachula. Everyone was crooked. The local and federal constabularies, the local city and county functionaries, the newspaper people, the toilet paper replenishers, everybody. If you want to survive in the Mexican outback when there you are start and kissing ass as if there were no tomorrow, take out the wallet and hope you have bus fare to home once they drrain it. Same is true in Kenya and Mozambique and Chicago and Ouagadougou. Travel abroad at your own risk.

Is it safe to drive in Mexico? That´s according to what crooked cop of errant gangster you happen to pass along the way. Same as in the piney woods of Alabama or redwood forests of Northern California. Hold on to your shorts.


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

chulor said:


> And (hate to have to ask) can you always (mostly) trust the Police?


No. Do not trust the police. Keep about thirty dollars in your wallet and no more, or the equivalent in pesos. It's enough of a mordita that most cops will accept it and go on their way. Fold your real money, and keep the bills under your instep, inside of the socks, because, no matter if you are doing anything wrong or not, the police will empty your pockets and pat you down. They will look through your wallet, of course. They will even pat your ankles. Keep at least $100 with you, in your shoe, at all times in case they accuse you of doing something really serious. $100 bucks, at the scene, with only one or two cops to bribe, will get you on your way no matter what's going on. The further it goes, the more people that get involved, the harder the matter becomes to settle. 

No doubt, I'll be accused of making some kind of broad, sweeping, unfair generalization here, but I'll stand by it. Police corruption in Mexico is no joke, and you do not want to go to jail. This can all come about simply because you turned the wrong way on a one way street or missed a stop sign totally obscured from view by a low hanging branch of a tree. Once I was accused of possessing drugs because I had some medicine for my cat in a little bag that still contained the receipt from the pharmacy. It's not about justice. It's not about whether something will "hold up" in court. It's about right now. They want some money. You have some money they want. 

That said, I don't even strongly dislike Mexican cops. They work for $45 a week so turn to morditas to supplement their income. Like it or lump it, that's just the way it is. You can rail and complain all you wish, but the best strategy is to understand the game they are playing with you and be prepared to pay when you have to pay. Besides, it doesn't happen that often...


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

ElPaso2012 said:


> That said, I don't even strongly dislike Mexican cops. They work for $45 a week so turn to morditas to supplement their income.


The worst sort of rationale, IMO. They're poorly paid so it's okay that they cheat, rob, steal and extort money from others to enrich themselves? The ability to abuse people is why so many take the job. They're low-lifes, scum ... and their families know what they're doing and condone it and are equally responsible for the abuse. That's part of the damaged national DNA I refer to. The USA saw some of this same perverted behavior during the Prohibition Era. But the nation eventually had enough. It'll only stop in Mexico when people have had enough. Sad to say, I doubt that'll happen in my lifetime.


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## tepetapan (Sep 30, 2010)

ElPaso2012 said:


> That said, I don't even strongly dislike Mexican cops. They work for $45 a week so turn to morditas to supplement their income. Like it or lump it, that's just the way it is....


 I don't know where you live but in my area you can't find a high school kid to rake leaves for $45 a week. Where do you come up this number?


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Longford live full time in Chicago .......


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## tepetapan (Sep 30, 2010)

Longford said:


> The worst sort of rationale, IMO. They're poorly paid so it's okay that they cheat, rob, steal and extort money from others to enrich themselves? The ability to abuse people is why so many take the job. They're low-lifes, scum ... and their families know what they're doing and condone it and are equally responsible for the abuse. That's part of the damaged national DNA I refer to. The USA saw some of this same perverted behavior during the Prohibition Era. But the nation eventually had enough. It'll only stop in Mexico when people have had enough. Sad to say, I doubt that'll happen in my lifetime.


 A ridiculous post but I am sure it is good therapy to get you feelings out into the open about how you feel about Mexican Law enforcement....again.
I'm sure there is a story behind your deep seated hatred, why not tells us a bit about the problem.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=ElPaso2012;1714881]No. Do not trust the police. Keep about thirty dollars in your wallet and no more, or the equivalent in pesos. It's enough of a mordita that most cops will accept it and go on their way. Fold your real money, and keep the bills under your instep, inside of the socks, because, no matter if you are doing anything wrong or not, the police will empty your pockets and pat you down. They will look through your wallet, of course. They will even pat your ankles. Keep at least $100 with you, in your shoe, at all times in case they accuse you of doing something really serious. $100 bucks, at the scene, with only one or two cops to bribe, will get you on your way no matter what's going on. The further it goes, the more people that get involved, the harder the matter becomes to settle. 

No doubt, I'll be accused of making some kind of broad, sweeping, unfair generalization here, but I'll stand by it. Police corruption in Mexico is no joke, and you do not want to go to jail. This can all come about simply because you turned the wrong way on a one way street or missed a stop sign totally obscured from view by a low hanging branch of a tree. Once I was accused of possessing drugs because I had some medicine for my cat in a little bag that still contained the receipt from the pharmacy. It's not about justice. It's not about whether something will "hold up" in court. It's about right now. They want some money. You have some money they want. 

That said, I don't even strongly dislike Mexican cops. They work for $45 a week so turn to morditas to supplement their income. Like it or lump it, that's just the way it is. You can rail and complain all you wish, but the best strategy is to understand the game they are playing with you and be prepared to pay when you have to pay. Besides, it doesn't happen that often...[/QUOTE]_

Well said, El Paso. the beginning of wisdom in learning how to survive in Mexico - whereever you are - is when you learn when the "Little Bite" is appropriate and whether or not negotiation or outright defiance is a tactic with some promise. A miscalculation can end up with your having been incarcerated in a very unpleasant place maybe confined with some very unpleasant and dangerous people and, perhaps, to be at the mercy of more crooked people than you had ever hoped to meet much less upon whom to be dependent. This is not just an experience of foreigners. The indigenous people in Southern Mexico are especially victimized by all sorts of crooked scams and pertptrated by cops, lawyers, judges, municipal and state functionaries and you name it.

Of course, I remember back in Alabama in the 1950s when the last thing you wanted to be was a black guy with his family driving a Lincoln Continental with Michigan plates through my home town before the advent of the interstate highway system. Most of these guys were locals from my home town who had moved up to Detroit of Chicacg to find factory jobs at wages unfathomable in Alabama in those days and they drove those (often employee discounted) Lincolns back home to demonstrate their success to family members left behind - just lke in places like Mexico and Easten Europe today. The local corrupt governments had a great scheme. The speed limit on the open highway would drop from 60MPH to 10MPH at the local "police jurisdiction" border out somewher in the middle of nowhere and, of course the "police jurisdiction" sign and altered speed limit was usually impossible to spot out there on the open road behind a Magnolia Tree. If that Michigan family wished to proceed on to Florida or whereever they were going , there was a justice of the peace always on duty 24/7 to take a bribe. 

Now, this corruption was not limited to African Americans driving back down from Michigan. If you were a white boy with out-of-county license plates you were also a pigeon to be plucked unless, of course your family had influence in the community. If your family, whether white of black, had local influence, you would be admonished and allowed to drive home to "momma and daddy" for parental guidance even if you were drunk out of your mind.

The moe things change the more they remain the same.


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

I'm not going to defend what I said above. If you want some practical advice about how to deal with the police, then take it. If not, do it your way and see how it works out...


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

http://www.secretariadoejecutivo.go...s/Salarios_de_Policias_2010_y_2011_210911.pdf

Longford´s "guess" is about 1/5 the weekly salary for State Police about on average more or less $200 US actually and for TJ police and Mexicali municipal police the same but many municipal police get about as low as $105 US. Chipas has some of the lowest paid municipal police among other non industrialized areas. State Police in Aguascaliente get about $341.00 US weekly, a far cry from $45.00 US. 8X more than his "guess".


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=tepetapan;1715377]I don't know where you live but in my area you can't find a high school kid to rake leaves for $45 a week. Where do you come up this number?[/QUOTE]_

Of course in tepetapan´s infamously poverty-stricken, dead-end town, most of the high school kids have thumbed over to Chiapas and taken the "train of death" north for U.S. job opportunities because there is no work in rustic Catemaco except pehaps draining septic storage tanks in the RVs that pass through there seeking cheap places to park for a night or two on their way to Belize . That´s why you can´t find a local kid to sweep leaves for the equivalent of $45USD a week unless you want to pay their bus fare back from Sacramento. 

I could easily find a kid to rake my lawns in either Jalisco or Chiapas for the equivalent of $45USD a week based upon the time devoted and the challenge of the garden. The comparisons are meaningles unless the size of the task is measuarble in time and effort.

I should point that I pay my gardener at Lake Capala the equivalent of about $130USD a week but he works five days a week for six hours a day and does a hell of a lot more than rake leaves on a 1/3rd acre garden and this is expensive Ajijic. I would pay a hell of a lot less than that in Chiapas and I pay well comparitively speaking.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

AlanMexicali said:


> Longford´s "guess" is about 1/5 the weekly salary for State Police about on average more or less $200 US actually and for TJ police and Mexicali municipal police the same but many municipal police get about as low as $105 US.


Where did I offer that "guess"?


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

Longford said:


> Where did I offer that "guess"?


It was in my post and was not even intended to be taken literally.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Longford said:


> Where did I offer that "guess"?


Sorry it was ElPaso2012´s guess not your guess.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=tepetapan;1715417]A ridiculous post but I am sure it is good therapy to get you feelings out into the open about how you feel about Mexican Law enforcement....again.
I'm sure there is a story behind your deep seated hatred, why not tells us a bit about the problem.[/QUOTE]_

Well, tepetapan; since you have ridiculed Longford´s assessement of what everybody knows is the massive corruption in Mexican law enforcement all the way up the hill from the thuggish and absolutely corrupt and dangerous street cop to the highest authority bought off by mordida or corrupt thugs and politicians, and, as we all have been informed ad nauseum, that you live in Catemaco, the answer to the hillbillies who roam the back streets of the Tennessee Hills, tell us about your experience with Mexican law there in infamously corrupt Veracruz within which you live in exurbia and then tell us the area encompassed by a geographical region stretching from Boca del Rio to Alvarado to San Andres Tuxtla to Catemaco is not totally corrupted by gang violence and corrupt or ineffectual law enforcement.

I, uñlike many who read here, know the corruption that makes your region in generarl undesirable. Catemaco is probably too poor to be a part of the mix but don´t fart higher than your anal pore.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

I've enjoyed my extensive travels in Veracruz state. In particular, to the south of the port city of Veracruz I've enjoyed Alvarado and Tlacotalpan ... both of which I've visited many times over the years. I've also enjoyed visiting Catemaco. The 'Los Tuxtlas' communities are interesting, as well. I don't find Veracruz more or less corrupt or unplesant than I've found Chiapas to be. Both are worthwhile destinations. I'd probably opt to live somewhere within the state of Veracruz than I would in Chiapas, however. To each ... his/her own preferences. That's what makes this an interesting forum ... and World in which we live. Regarding the "RV" comments: I've spent a lot of time researching the possible purchase of a motorhome, travel trailer or truck camper so that I could move about Mexico and live for extended periods of times in different parts of the country. Doing that would give me the freedom to experince more and more of the country ... when I retire. If/when I'd tire of it I could head back north to do the same in Canada and/or the USA or just sell the rig. There are some full-timer RVers in Mexico who have online blogs I read and I often admire their adventures. So, not all of us can have and/or afford, or want, two or more homes in Mexico. One on wheels might work best for some of us.


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## tepetapan (Sep 30, 2010)

Hound Dog said:


> [_QUOTE=tepetapan;1715377]I don't know where you live but in my area you can't find a high school kid to rake leaves for $45 a week. Where do you come up this number?_






I could easily find a kid to rake my lawns in either Jalisco or Chiapas for the equivalent of $45USD a week based upon the time devoted and the challenge of the garden. The comparisons are meaningles unless the size of the task is measuarble in time and effort.

I should point that I pay my gardener at Lake Capala the equivalent of about $130USD a week but he works five days a week for six hours a day and does a hell of a lot more than rake leaves on a 1/3rd acre garden and this is expensive Ajijic. I would pay a hell of a lot less than that in Chiapas and I pay well comparitively speaking.[/QUOTE]
.
It is a good thing you are paying 3 times what you need to pay, but that just goes along with your great personality. 
1/3 of an acre is not bad for a transient from Alabama. Keep up the normal, low brow work.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

"... There are some full-timer RVers in Mexico who have online blogs I read and I often admire their adventures. So, not all of us can have and/or afford, or want, two or more homes in Mexico. One on wheels might work best for some of us.[/QUOTE]"

Well, Longford, you just might fit in in Catemaco, a place blighted by ticky-tacky housing as far as the eye can see with the Levitown boredom only broken by RV parks, 24 hour OXXO stores selling Corona Beer and pork rinds. Back in the Alabama of my youth in the 1950s, the beaches were disgraced by Wisconsonites and Quebecois in their RVs who brought their own really bad cheese and sausages to accompany their beer brought down in coolers and they never spent any money they could hoard in those Alabama and Florida beach communities except to burden the community sewage systems every 15 miles or so. No commitment to the communities they passed,; just a place to leave their waste products before moving on to the next beach town in which they had no interest but for the flushing commodes and splendid beaches which were great repositories for their left-over Butterfinger wrappers and beer cans thrown from car windows at random.

Here, some 60 years later, I remember the desecration of the beaches at Dauphin Island. Maybe the Mexicans have similar memories.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

[/QUOTE] Well, Longford, you just might fit in in Catemaco, a place blighted by ticky-tacky housing as far as the eye can see with the Levitown boredom only broken by RV parks, 24 hour OXXO stores selling Corona Beer and pork rinds. [/QUOTE]

I grew up in Levittown, PA, and have been doing my best to get away from it, and any place resembling it, even faintly, ever since I graduated from high school. Thanks for the warning about Catemaco - I definitely won't put it on my must-visit list.


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## tepetapan (Sep 30, 2010)

Well, Longford, you just might fit in in Catemaco, a place blighted by ticky-tacky housing as far as the eye can see with the Levitown boredom only broken by RV parks, 24 hour OXXO stores selling Corona Beer and pork rinds. [/QUOTE]

I grew up in Levittown, PA, and have been doing my best to get away from it, and any place resembling it, even faintly, ever since I graduated from high school. Thanks for the warning about Catemaco - I definitely won't put it on my must-visit list.[/QUOTE]
Actually, everything listed is a lie. You should be more careful who you join up with in posts. Believing anything coming out of a dog's mouth makes you look like a fool.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

tepetapan said:


> Well, Longford, you just might fit in in Catemaco, a place blighted by ticky-tacky housing as far as the eye can see with the Levitown boredom only broken by RV parks, 24 hour OXXO stores selling Corona Beer and pork rinds.





> I grew up in Levittown, PA, and have been doing my best to get away from it, and any place resembling it, even faintly, ever since I graduated from high school. Thanks for the warning about Catemaco - I definitely won't put it on my must-visit list.





> Actually, everything listed is a lie. You should be more careful who you join up with in posts. Believing anything coming out of a dog's mouth makes you look like a fool.


It's never a wise move to insinuate that a MOD is a fool.


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## dongringo (Dec 13, 2010)

tepetapan said:


> A ridiculous post but I am sure it is good therapy to get you feelings out into the open about how you feel about Mexican Law enforcement....again.
> I'm sure there is a story behind your deep seated hatred, why not tells us a bit about the problem.


That is not a ridiculous quote, it is a genuine asessment of the state of federal and state law enforcement on Mexican roads. 
The so-called highway police is unbelievably corrupt, which will be in your favor if you have the dollars to pay for their favors, if not you will go to jail!


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_[QUOTE=Longford;1716105]I've enjoyed my extensive travels in Veracruz state. In particular, to the south of the port city of Veracruz I've enjoyed Alvarado and Tlacotalpan ... both of which I've visited many times over the years. I've also enjoyed visiting Catemaco. The 'Los Tuxtlas' communities are interesting, as well. I don't find Veracruz more or less corrupt or unplesant than I've found Chiapas to be. Both are worthwhile destinations. I'd probably opt to live somewhere within the state of Veracruz than I would in Chiapas, however. To each ... his/her own preferences. 

We are very much in agreement of your above comment, Longford. Veracruz is a beautiful state and we have driven and visited it from north to south a number of times while driving from Lake Chapala to Chiapas counting among our favorite towns places as diverse as Orizaba, Xalapa, Coatepec, Boca Del Rio, Tlacotalpan The Tuxtlas area and slopes of the San Martin Volcano and even Lake Catemaco - just not the town of Catemaco itself although, as you say, to each his own and those of you who have yet to visit the lake should give it a try. At one time a few years ago we thought of leaving Laka Chapala and moving to, perhaps the Orizaba area or the Xalapa/Coatepec area but finally settled on San Cristóbal de Las Casas for various personal reasons but that is not to disparage the Veracruz towns we considered at the time.

As for crime and corruption, Chiapas is a far more violent and corrupt place than one would think by reading the foreign of Mexican national press, especially in rural, isolated areas along and near the border with Guatemala and the same is true of many areas in Oaxaca and Guerrero States. However, we have found it possible to live in the Chiapas Highlands and travel extensively throughout the region on both main highways and back roads experiencing very few probems at any time. It was not my intention to discourage travel in the region whether one chooses the RV route or prefers auto travel and hotels for stays in various towns and, by the way, we have had no problem finding very nice hotels at reasonable prices in towns throughout Southern Mexico - even some who have no problems taking in our mutts.

Speaking of traveling through Veracruz, last year we decided to drive from Lake Chapala through Puebla City and up the mountain to Cuetzalan, Puebla then into Northern Veracruz State to Papantla and down the Gulf Coast from there to Veracruz City and then back to the inland cuota to Chiapas. The drive was fascinating in the mountainius parts of Puebla State and Northern Veracruz State but I must say, the beach road from Papantla to Playa Chachalacas just north of Veracruz City, where we spent the night seemed, a bit of a bore to us - especially in comparison with other beach runs we have undertaken in other parts of Mexico._


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=tepetapan;1715417]A ridiculous post but I am sure it is good therapy to get you feelings out into the open about how you feel about Mexican Law enforcement....again.
I'm sure there is a story behind your deep seated hatred, why not tells us a bit about the problem.[/QUOTE]_

Actually, tepetapan, nobody likes the Mexican Law Enforcement Goons more than I. The The law enforcement agency I truly hate is the scrupulously honest and uncorruptable California Highway Patrol who will throw your ass in jail even at the suggestion of a bribe. French highway patrolmen are the same mean-spirited by-the-book cheeserabbits driving about the freeways and relishing catching lawbreakers in the act. I love those unquestionnably corrupt and maleable Mexican highway cops, whether local, state or federal who will take a modest sum of money to keep you out of the tank. In Mexico you are never guilty of anything unless you are poor, unknown and without recourse - then God help you. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs a large pillow under which to hide permanently. You may be among those.


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## buzzbar (Feb 9, 2013)

If a reader here held any thoughts that Mexican Law Enforcement and their 'well connected' stooges might not be as bad as Hound Dog or others made out, I think you've now removed any doubt. You should be ashamed of yourself.


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

buzzbar said:


> If a reader here held any thoughts that Mexican Law Enforcement and their 'well connected' stooges might not be as bad as Hound Dog or others made out, I think you've now removed any doubt. You should be ashamed of yourself.


Which post are you referring to here?


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Tepetapan had his telling post deleted. He was threatening Hound dog and was bragging about his family members being Federales and State police and having them going after Hound dog,
I think he realized how ridiculous his post was and had it deleted. It was the perfect liustration of what Hound dog was talking about..


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=ElPaso2012;1731346]Which post are you referring to here?[/QUOTE]_

Just so this personal threat to me will not be lost in time, as we drive through Veracruz State _at least _four times a year on our way from or to Lake Chapala from or to Chiapas. Allow me to paraphrase as best I remember, this person´s posted comment that he/she was well connected with the local, state and federal police in different parts of Veracruz State and that if I drove through that state again, in my words but his inference, I should watch my ass. 

This sort of influence peddling and bald-faced intimidation claimed by the poster whose post has been deleted, is exactly the corruption of the legal system of which I was writing. This is the milieu in which I was raised in the U.S. Deep South in the 1950s so I recognized this threat in a nonosecond. That threat does not intimidate me and, actually, empty threats are amusing in a way, but just in case I end up in some Veracruz shantytown lockup because one of the poster´s cousins stopped me along the way through the Veracruz on my way to Chiapas - remember, you first read it here. 

Back in Alabama in the 50s, here is the way the arrest would go:

"Where yáll from and where you be goin´ boy?"
" I be headin´ to Panama City Beach from Birmingham, officer. Please don´t hit me!"
" Well, mah cousin Ralph Bob tells me you are a miscreant fleeing the Jefferson Count Seff´s department so ah thank we had better introduce you to the local justice of the peace for a consultation."

You take it from there.

I grew up with this stuff. It´s like one of those _LONG HOT SUMMER _movies of the 50s with Paul Newman and Burl Ives but just in case, next time, I think I´ll drive south through Oaxaca.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

People making personal threats on internet forums tell us much about themselves.
Enuf said about that one.
Safe journeys, Hound Dog.


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

citlali said:


> Tepetapan had his telling post deleted. He was threatening Hound dog and was bragging about his family members being Federales and State police and having them going after Hound dog,
> I think he realized how ridiculous his post was and had it deleted. It was the perfect liustration of what Hound dog was talking about..


That is exactly what I thought and who I remembered having posted the threat. Yet when I followed the "Permalink" numbering system, there did not seem to be a skip, so I wanted corroboration. 

The question now is this: Why is that person still actively posting on this forum? 

The threat was not very subtle and contained a phrase something akin to "you are a marked man and no one will miss you". That's a clear violation of the Terms and Conditions of this forum, so which moderator deleted the post but allowed the poster to remain active on the forum? It's easy not to take such things seriously, but having had a forum I can assure you that it's not unheard of for bad feelings to spill over into the real world from the "virtual" world. 

Forum posters tend to eventually have spats and disagreements and make disparaging remarks about the intelligence of those they disagree with, but direct personal attacks and threats of physical violence should be the red line that we all demand be enforced, immediately and with no apologies. 

Is this the kind of forum where such things are just swept under the rug?


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

By the list of auto accidents reported by his wife it appears that HD will kill himself on a back road in Chaipas.


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## ElPaso2012 (Dec 16, 2012)

lagoloo said:


> People making personal threats on internet forums tell us much about themselves.
> Enuf said about that one.
> Safe journeys, Hound Dog.


Indeed, we'll see if anything is done about it. After all, that post threatened murder.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Exactly Chicois we do not need some goon to go after us we can get into trouble all by ourselves. Threatening people of having them done in is not funny.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

I believe the threat was made in jest. Clearly, many have not taken it that way. It is time to end this discussion.


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