# Tourist´s bodies found in burned van in Sinaloa.



## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

*Tourists´ bodies found in burned van in Sinaloa.*

https://translate.google.com/transl....com/Noticia.aspx?ID=19036&edit-text=&act=url

Two surfers from Australia dissapeared last week in their van after taking the La Paz, Baja Sur ferry to the mainland.


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## cscscs007 (Jan 8, 2011)

This is so sad and heartbreaking to see. My heart goes out to their families, as words fail miserably for me expressing my feelings.

It is saddening to me that the news of this tragedy will air on all of the news outlets and highlight a lawless savage Mexico, when in actuality I feel more safe anywhere I go in Mexico than in going to the Chicago's South Side day or night.

It is a sad thing to have to admit in the beautiful country of Mexico there are those few simply do not care about the well being of others and view life as nothing.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

You may feel more safe but lots of nasty things happen here. I know many families who have lost a member to crime, feeling safe is one thing , being safe is another.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

citlali said:


> You may feel more safe but lots of nasty things happen here. I know many families who have lost a member to crime, feeling safe is one thing , being safe is another.


I can second that, Citlali, from many experiences from family members here. Mexico is a LOT different than it seems to many tourists and newcomers, and people who never venture into those questionable areas.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

There is a theory that the improvided kitchen may have exploded..hopefully the expert will figure it out but meanwhile I saw another crime on the same road, a man was found shot as well...


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

citlali said:


> There is a theory that the improvided kitchen may have exploded..hopefully the expert will figure it out but meanwhile I saw another crime on the same road, a man was found shot as well...


I guess AlanMexicali's original link isn't working for me. I see nothing about the La Paz ferry or a kitchen.......just the usual almost-incomprehensible translation that they'd found a burned-out van with two passengers on a dirt road in the Navolato/San Blas area.

We took that same ferry in late October, at least the La Paz/Topolobampo route. How can I link to the rest of the story?


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

'Everything points to' bodies in van in Mexico belonging to WA surfers, girlfriend says | Australia news | The Guardian

Grave fears for two Australian surfers missing in Mexico | World news | The Guardian


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

HolyMole said:


> I guess AlanMexicali's original link isn't working for me. I see nothing about the La Paz ferry or a kitchen.......just the usual almost-incomprehensible translation that they'd found a burned-out van with two passengers on a dirt road in the Navolato/San Blas area.
> 
> We took that same ferry in late October, at least the La Paz/Topolobampo route. How can I link to the rest of the story?


Here"s an article in English with more information. 

'Everything points to' bodies in van in Mexico belonging to surfers, girlfriend says | Australia news | The Guardian


And a link to Global News Edmonton with a video news report:

http://globalnews.ca/news/2369123/authorities-in-mexico-search-for-2-missing-australian-men-amid-report-mens-van-found/

(Whoops! I see I cross-posted with Alan. Sorry about the duplication.)


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I read the "kitchen" story in one of the Spanish paper. We will see what the forensic experst say, it is too early to tell what happened to them except for the fact that it is a chevy van so same van as the ones they were travelling in so the odds are not good.


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## dichosalocura (Oct 31, 2013)

I think this is a very sad occurrence, my heart goes out to the families. But putting that aside, I recognize that a lot of crazy _mierda_ happens in Mexico just as it happens everywhere. It just unquestionably always seems scarier to us gringos when it happens in Mexico and especially when it happens to expats or tourists regardless of the continuous body count that we read about daily in the US press national news. I think the same day this incident was announced on the news I also saw a similar story of a body of a man being discovered in an abandoned car somewhere in the US, I forget where exactly. I'm not saying that Mexico doesn't have its share of organized crime and high murder rate, all I'm saying is that when I read the daily news I see lots and lots of headlines reporting ghastly murders in the USA but when it occurs in Mexico the media sensationalizes it and makes a bigger deal about it than if the same thing occurred in a small town in Texas or in Tennessee. When it happens in Mexico it just _seems_ scarier.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

cancelled post


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Sorry but I do not understand why you have to defend Mexico on this one or compare it to the US.
If these 2 men were murdered ,Mexico should ge a bad wrap and it will be well deserved.

I love Mexico and travel a lot here but I am also very aware that bad things can happen and would not be travlling on a lonely road at night in Sinaloa. It is people who are in denial of that fact who get in trouble.

The Mexican government should warn tourists getting off the boat not to travel at night in that área. I remember traveling in the Golden triangle in 1980 and the Thai government was warning tourists not to go wandering out at night because of assaults.

Last week I was supposed to attend a small festival in an iffy área in Chiapas the weather was bad my companions could not go because of some illness, they advise me not to go with my car and to take public transportation as the área is known for assaults. I just cancelled and will go next year via a longer but safer way. 
I think that when living in Mexico you need to have your ears to the ground when traveliing in áreas that are known to be unsafe...especially at night.

This said I feel very sorry for these 2 men and their friends and families, it just did not have to happen. 

Mexico has a well deserved reputation like it or not. A few people are doing the damaged but the reputation is there like it or not.


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## dichosalocura (Oct 31, 2013)

Yes I agree that Mexico has earned the reputation that it maintains abroad. That there are quite a few iffy areas that one should not venture out in and especially at night. I guess what really bothers me is that many Us citizens that live in the USA are terrified to go down into Mexico on vacation or consider to move down there due to the perception that crime is so rampant and that they are _sooo much safer _ in the USA when everybody that follows the news can verify that terrible things occur daily there too. Right now as I am typing there was another shoot out that just occurred out in California in San Bernardino with at least 20 injured, they are saying. But people wouldn't think twice about driving over to visit California where you never know when the next shoot out might take place. The negative perception people have of Mexico is what really bothers me I guess.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Not only does it seem scarier, but it seems closer to home, where we live. We do not live in the US, so what happens there does not justify what happens here. That is called "deflection".


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

dichosalocura said:


> Yes I agree that Mexico has earned the reputation that it maintains abroad. That there are quite a few iffy areas that one should not venture out in and especially at night. I guess what really bothers me is that many Us citizens that live in the USA are terrified to go down into Mexico on vacation or consider to move down there due to the perception that crime is so rampant and that they are _sooo much safer _ in the USA when everybody that follows the news can verify that terrible things occur daily there too.  Right now as I am typing there was another shoot out that just occurred out in California in San Bernardino with at least 20 injured, they are saying. But people wouldn't think twice about driving over to visit California where you never know when the next shoot out might take place. The negative perception people have of Mexico is what really bothers me I guess.


In San Bernardino today at least 14 people were killed! http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/03/u...ab-top-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

dichosalocura said:


> Yes I agree that Mexico has earned the reputation that it maintains abroad. That there are quite a few iffy areas that one should not venture out in and especially at night. I guess what really bothers me is that many Us citizens that live in the USA are terrified to go down into Mexico on vacation or consider to move down there due to the perception that crime is so rampant and that they are _sooo much safer _ in the USA when everybody that follows the news can verify that terrible things occur daily there too. The negative perception people have of Mexico is what really bothers me I guess.


As you say, Mexico has earned that "negative" perception. What confuses me is why are you concerned by what people NOB think of Mexico, unless you are earning your living from them coming to Mexico. I will venture a guess that our own Gary couldn't care less what the people NOB think about Mexico, so why should you?


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Isla Verde said:


> In San Bernardino today at least 14 people were killed! http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/03/u...ab-top-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news


A real tragedy. And, in another country, too. Still doesn't justify the killings here in Mexico, does it?


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## dichosalocura (Oct 31, 2013)

No I don't think I would have to be earning an income from US tourists or expats to be concerned and upset about the ignorance and gullibility of many US citizens and their views on out beautiful country of Mexico. It just seems that when you read the news and then later read the comments below an article, many of the commentators are trolls espousing their hatred of all things Mexico. But at the end of the day they are just simply bigoted trolls I guess. So, Isla you say that now it is 14 killed and not just the 20 injured they were reporting earlier. It just goes to show that bad things can happen anywhere you live. And the US is far from immune to crime and murder.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

dichosalocura said:


> It just goes to show that bad things can happen anywhere you live. And the US is far from immune to crime and murder.


I seriously doubt there is anyone that reads these posts that has not been aware of that fact for a long time. Seems redundant to me, but that is just my opinion. No matter, still is not justification for what happens here, nor does it make it any less serious when it happens here. Just can't sweep those things under the rug here, unless you are military, police, or government.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

The US does have the reputation of a violent and crazy country where every idiot has access to a gun so i do not see why people from the US would feel safer in the US than in Mexico. I guess you are safer driving around just do not go near a school or church or shopping center or get caught in road rage.. and now in Europe people are nervous about public transportation or being in a crowd..there is not safe place and things happen anywhere but that does not take away from the fact that Mexico is not safe either and since I live in Mexico I concentrate on what is happening here


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Today: 14 dead, 14 more wounded in a three-man attack on a facility in San Bernadino, CA, USA.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

citlali said:


> Sorry but I do not understand why you have to defend Mexico on this one or compare it to the US.
> If these 2 men were murdered ,Mexico should ge a bad wrap and it will be well deserved.
> 
> I love Mexico and travel a lot here but I am also very aware that bad things can happen and would not be travlling on a lonely road at night in Sinaloa. *It is people who are in denial of that fact who get in trouble.*
> ...


Mostly, I agree with your post. The only thing that I would add is that I think there is a lot of luck, good or bad involved. It is not only people in denial who get in trouble. You can follow all the rules and still end up in the wrong place at the wrong time. You can also break all the rules and get away with it almost all the time.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

yes and thank God we moved to Mexico when we retired and did not stay in a safe place like California or Paris!


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

I'm with you, I concentrate on Mexico, too, and don't waste my time referencing bad things NOB. 
And, thankfully you did not move to Guerrero, or San Fernando, et alii.


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## LMtortugas (Aug 23, 2013)

citlali said:


> Sorry but I do not understand why you have to defend Mexico on this one or compare it to the US.
> If these 2 men were murdered ,Mexico should ge a bad wrap and it will be well deserved.
> 
> I love Mexico and travel a lot here but I am also very aware that bad things can happen and would not be travlling on a lonely road at night in Sinaloa. It is people who are in denial of that fact who get in trouble.
> ...


Good insightful comments. I spend a lot of time in Sinaloa, this area has a well earned reputation for a territory to be avoided. Driving late at night… purportedly diverted off Federal Hwy 15 … one wonders why seasoned travelers apparently very familiar with Mexico would not heed very clear caution & warning.

I was in Ciudad Juarez last weekend, downtown Chicago a few weeks prior; both are wonderful communities, but less than wholly safe & secure. No substitutive for good judgment and common sense.


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## buzzbar (Feb 9, 2013)

Spare a thought for how the surfers' fellow Ozzies now regard Mexico, that far away country that many are totally ignorant about. As one Australian told me when I returned there for a holiday a few years back: "I never read anything about the country in the papers, and the only time I see stuff about Mexico is when I watch the Zeta beheading videos on YouTube." That'd sure give him an accurate picture of the country!

Today ABC in Australia ran a story about someone who had once been robbed in Puerto Escondido! By a man with a gun! In 2008!

It's fine for us to talk about unsafe areas, the dangers of traveling at night and specific roads that should be avoided etc, but I don't think that's how the outside world is seeing this. For Australia's national news organization to highlight one man, who seven years ago got mugged in a tourist town more than a thousand miles from the scene of these latest deaths, shows me that the message being given by the media, and received by the people, is that Mexico is a nasty, dangerous country that you should stay well clear of if you value your life. Which I think is as sad as it is wrong.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

It is difficult to explain to people how a country where stranger as a rule are nice and helpful especially if you are in need, where people are friendly and polite and looks relaxed is also a country where terrible violence happens . How do you put that together? How do you explain it.. 
It is not an easy thing to understand and you cannot expect the press to put it into words or the outsiders to believe it.
I remember seeing Miss Bala in Paris and the reaction of people was that it was just a movie, thiese things do not happen. It is easier to dismiss it than to believe it.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

buzzbar said:


> Spare a thought for how the surfers' fellow Ozzies now regard Mexico, that far away country that many are totally ignorant about. As one Australian told me when I returned there for a holiday a few years back: "I never read anything about the country in the papers, and the only time I see stuff about Mexico is when I watch the Zeta beheading videos on YouTube." That'd sure give him an accurate picture of the country!
> 
> Today ABC in Australia ran a story about someone who had once been robbed in Puerto Escondido! By a man with a gun! In 2008!
> 
> It's fine for us to talk about unsafe areas, the dangers of traveling at night and specific roads that should be avoided etc, but I don't think that's how the outside world is seeing this. For Australia's national news organization to highlight one man, who seven years ago got mugged in a tourist town more than a thousand miles from the scene of these latest deaths, shows me that the message being given by the media, and received by the people, is that Mexico is a nasty, dangerous country that you should stay well clear of if you value your life. Which I think is as sad as it is wrong.


Coincidentally, I was in Sinaloa last weekend and met an Australian. He was riding a motorcycle (1984 BMW R80G/S, maybe the first year they made a GS style bike) from San Diego to Guatemala. I think he took the ferry from La Paz to Topolobampo/Los Mochis and was spending a few days in Mazatlan where I ran into him.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Violence makes headlines. Look at today's news about the massacre in San Bernardino, CA


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Reminds me of people thinking about a trip to Mexico and reading a Forum (such as this) and some posters that have lived and traveled in Mexico extensively say " we have gone anywhere we want and at any time, day or night, and never had any problems in Mexico. Mexico is the safest place I have ever lived. Come on down and enjoy yourself." So these newcomers come on down and enjoy themselves and go anywhere they want, day and night, and end up dead. People do not have equal amounts of common sense, and, since postings are anonymous, no one feels any responsibility for what they post.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Sounds like that Australian will have plenty of oportunity to get himself in trouble on the Michoacan and Guerrero coast during his trip not to mention Guatemala...If he is lucky he will have no problems but not everyone is lucky.


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## JoanneR2 (Apr 18, 2012)

citlali said:


> The US does have the reputation of a violent and crazy country where every idiot has access to a gun so i do not see why people from the US would feel safer in the US than in Mexico. I guess you are safer driving around just do not go near a school or church or shopping center or get caught in road rage.. and now in Europe people are nervous about public transportation or being in a crowd..there is not safe place and things happen anywhere but that does not take away from the fact that Mexico is not safe either and since I live in Mexico I concentrate on what is happening here


I am about to leave Mexico after 4 years here in Mexico City and am off to Paris. My Mexican friends are worried about the situation in Europe and my European friends have always been concerned about the situation in Mexico. Ho hum.... Seems like the world is a dangerous place but hasn't it always been like that?


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Yes unfortunately there is nothing new..To tell you the truth my family lives in Paris and they are more concerned about going to crowded places right now than coming to Mexico.Actually they are coming to Mexico in a few weeks.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

JoanneR2 said:


> Seems like the world is a dangerous place but hasn't it always been like that?


No it hasn't. Certainly nothing like it is now and it is getting worse all the time. Maybe in England, but not in the US where I have lived and grew up. YMMD.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

coondawg said:


> No it hasn't. Certainly nothing like it is now and it is getting worse all the time. Maybe in England, but not in the US where I have lived and grew up. YMMD.


Before moving permanently to Mexico in 2007, I spent many longer and shorter periods of time here for a number of years, beginning in the summer of 1966. Mexico definitely feels more dangerous to me now than it ever has, though I haven't personally been affected by the steep rise in crime and insecurity in the country.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

It was that way in France during Algeria war. I remember my satchel being search when I would leave it downstairs from our apartment on my way back from school. There were lots of plastic explosions. The CRS were killed with little arrows with curare point and that were coming out of blow guns. They were perfect, quiet and deadly then later the terrorists tried to blow up the subway tube that goes under the Seine at St Michel to flood the whole system. I think that one was in the 80´s, People were blown up but thank God the tube did not leak and there was no flooding of the system. I was just talking with my mother about it who was laughing when she heard some repoters say that it had never happened in Paris. We had martial law in those days too. That was under De Gaulle. Nothing new for us that is for sure.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Those of us who have spent most of our lives NOB have only recently become aware of terrorist threats at home and mass killings. These are all new experiences that I have never heard of where I grew up. Actually, where we live NOB part time, we still have not experienced anything much different in crime than in the past.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

coondawg said:


> Those of us who have spent most of our lives NOB have only recently become aware of terrorist threats at home and mass killings. These are all new experiences that I have never heard of where I grew up. Actually, where we live NOB part time, we still have not experienced anything much different in crime than in the past.


355 mass shooting so far in 2015 and 19 were in Texas. Many were wounded and many were killed.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/heres-a-map-of-all-the-mass-shootings-in-2015/


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

AlanMexicali said:


> 355 mass shooting so far in 2015 and 19 were in Texas. Many were wounded and many were killed.
> 
> Here's a map of all the mass shootings in 2015 | PBS NewsHour


I missed your point. None of these evidently were anywhere near me, as they did not impact our lives in any manner, nor was I aware of them doing so. The only one I can think of was at a military base, and I have never been near there , nor have any reason to be. Maybe they affect your lives. Sorry, if that is the case. 

In Chapala, when we hit the floor with bullets coming into our cochera, and the firefight in the street outside, and the grenade going off 2 blocks away, the police chief being gunned down in the main street 4 blocks from our house, the running gunfight in the next block over from us, when the prisoner escaped from the police station, etc.; now THAT affected our lives. NEVER have I, nor anyone I know NOB had any experiences like that NOB. So, Alan, FYI, many of us have lived perfectly safe lives NOB all of our 70 years here. That may not be your situation, but that is your problem, not mine. In reality, Chapala, Jalisco, Mexico, where I lived for about 13 years, was the most dangerous place that I have ever experienced in my entire life.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

And, Alan, my wife, from Leon, Guanajuato, Mexico, is so relieved when we cross the Border from Mexico to Texas, that she always makes a point of telling me how much safer she feels in Texas than in Mexico; she has lived her whole life, until recently, in Mexico.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

coondawg said:


> And, Alan, my wife, from Leon, Guanajuato, Mexico, is so relieved when we cross the Border from Mexico to Texas, that she always makes a point of telling me how much safer she feels in Texas than in Mexico; she has lived her whole life, until recently, in Mexico.


Relieved?
Really?
Does she feel threatened in México?


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

JoanneR2 said:


> I am about to leave Mexico after 4 years here in Mexico City and am off to Paris. My Mexican friends are worried about the situation in Europe and my European friends have always been concerned about the situation in Mexico. Ho hum.... Seems like the world is a dangerous place but hasn't it always been like that?


I agree with you, the world has always been dangerous, in fact, I think it was much more dangerous before, when Countries would conquer territories and impose their colonies and religions, when huge wars took place when you could not cross a wood without being mugged or killed. 
Today we have safer roads, safer laws, safer medicine, safer...everything
I am not saying that our safety is perfect, but safer than before


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

coondawg said:


> In Chapala, when we hit the floor with bullets coming into our cochera, and the firefight in the street outside, and the grenade going off 2 blocks away, the police chief being gunned down in the main street 4 blocks from our house, the running gunfight in the next block over from us, when the prisoner escaped from the police station, etc.; now THAT affected our lives. NEVER have I, nor anyone I know NOB had any experiences like that NOB. So, Alan, FYI, many of us have lived perfectly safe lives NOB all of our 70 years here. That may not be your situation, but that is your problem, not mine. In reality, Chapala, Jalisco, Mexico, where I lived for about 13 years, was the most dangerous place that I have ever experienced in my entire life.


All of our experiences are different. When I lived in Philadelphia in the 1980s, I was mugged/robbed on three different occasions. Nothing like that has ever happened to me in Mexico, so I feel much safer here than I did in the City of Brotherly Love.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

GARYJ65 said:


> I agree with you, the world has always been dangerous, in fact, I think it was much more dangerous before, when Countries would conquer territories and impose their colonies and religions, when huge wars took place when you could not cross a wood without being mugged or killed.
> Today we have safer roads, safer laws, safer medicine, safer...everything
> I am not saying that our safety is perfect, but safer than before


You wouldn't feel that way if you lived in the parts of the Middle East where war is raging!


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

GARYJ65 said:


> Relieved?
> Really?
> Does she feel threatened in México?


She has felt unsafe and fearful all her life in Mexico, having to always go in groups, never venture out at night alone, not look people in the eye, not respond to the vulgar remarks by guys in the street, be careful where she went and with whom she went, and ask who would be at the event, etc. Life, Gary, in Mexico, is much different for a man and a woman, as you should know. She knows the Mexicans get revenge on people who report bad activities to authorities. There was a time when she was young, that many men on the streets she lived were marijuana users and she was always scared of their behavior toward people.

Gary, you can't imagine how many times we have been stopped by police/military while traveling in Mexico and hassled by several(they seem to want her to tell details about our life together). NEVER, after crossing into Texas and passing the Border checkpoints have we been stopped for anything, never does she see armed military/check points, etc. As she tells me, Gary, the US (at least in Texas) is a country where people really are free and safe, not like in Mexico.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> You wouldn't feel that way if you lived in the parts of the Middle East where war is raging!


Gary is right if you are comparing today to the middle ages when diseases killed people, accidental injuries often resulted in fatal infections and robbers made travel dangerous. Wars seem to be a constant.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Isla Verde said:


> All of our experiences are different. When I lived in Philadelphia in the 1980s, I was mugged/robbed on three different occasions. Nothing like that has ever happened to me in Mexico, so I feel much safer here than I did in the City of Brotherly Love.


Exactly. Those who have lived in places that I would not live have different experiences. I have been fortunate all my life to be free and safe, until my experiences in Mexico, and at specific places in Mexico. Whenever you experience unsafe and you change to a safer place, you will then feel safer.
Actually, our home in Leon has been much safer for us (so far) than when in Chapala the last few years. Of course, we do not leave our cars out over night with keys in it, nor our house unlocked when we go shopping, like NOB. And, here in Mexico, we have our walls and our alarm system, etc., that we do not have NOB. Everything being a trade off, no? All has its good, and its bad; it's what toots your horn that is important, no?


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

TundraGreen said:


> Gary is right if you are comparing today to the middle ages when diseases killed people, accidental injuries often resulted in fatal infections and robbers made travel dangerous. Wars seem to be a constant.


and Mexico has always had incidents like the "43", et alii, no?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

coondawg said:


> Of course, we do not leave our cars out over night with keys in it, nor our house unlocked when we go shopping, like NOB. And, here in Mexico, we have our walls and our alarm system, etc., that we do not have NOB. Everything being a trade off, no?


I've never lived anywhere in the world where I would have left my car with the keys in it overnight or not locked the house when going shopping. You must have lived in very safe places in the States. Here in Mexico I live in a small apartment building with no doorman or alarm system and feel as safe (or safer) than I did living in many places in the US: Philly, NYC and Boston, to name a few. I don't see any of this as a "trade off".


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

coondawg said:


> She has felt unsafe and fearful all her life in Mexico, having to always go in groups, never venture out at night alone, not look people in the eye, not respond to the vulgar remarks by guys in the street, be careful where she went and with whom she went, and ask who would be at the event, etc.


I have several Mexican female friends in the DF, young professional women in their thirties and early forties. The way you describe your wife's life has no relation to the way I know that they live their lives. Maybe it's a generational difference.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> You wouldn't feel that way if you lived in the parts of the Middle East where war is raging!


I know, not now, but what about 1910 in México?
1521?
Guerra de los cristeros?
IT happens everywhere, all the time, but we are safer now than before

Safer meaning safer than before...again, not SAFE as in 100% Safe


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

coondawg said:


> She has felt unsafe and fearful all her life in Mexico, having to always go in groups, never venture out at night alone, not look people in the eye, not respond to the vulgar remarks by guys in the street, be careful where she went and with whom she went, and ask who would be at the event, etc. Life, Gary, in Mexico, is much different for a man and a woman, as you should know. She knows the Mexicans get revenge on people who report bad activities to authorities. There was a time when she was young, that many men on the streets she lived were marijuana users and she was always scared of their behavior toward people.
> 
> Gary, you can't imagine how many times we have been stopped by pes yoe/military while traveling in Mexico and hassled by several(they seem to want her to tell details about our life together). NEVER, after crossing into Texas and passing the Border checkpoints have we been stopped for anything, never does she see armed military/check points, etc. As she tells me, Gary, the US (at least in Texas) is a country where people really are free and safe, not like in Mexico.


I can understand that is different, I am a 50 yo, 1.8 m, 200 lb guy and life seems safe for me almost everywhere, but I have a 70 yo Mother and a 23 yo daughter and they don's seem to feel unsafe here, if that was the case, I would pack up and leave.
Is the US safer? I don't know about that and I will not start with the subject of terrorism, serial killers, crazy people shooting others, etc.
Yes, you get stopped, so what, I have never been threatened by those guys.
Some places in the US, if you "look" Mexican or latino, they would also demand you to stop and show papers...
I saw in the news that they have a new phone app for people to take pictures or report any unusual situation they may run into. In the US
Texas is Texas...They still carry a load of violence there too, I have witnessed that as well
Again, not saying that México is one of the safest Countries


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Isla Verde said:


> I have several Mexican female friends in the DF, young professional women in their thirties and early forties. The way you describe your wife's life has no relation to the way I know that they live their lives. Maybe it's a generational difference.


Or, maybe it's a location difference, like NYC is to small town Texas. 
We have always been able to not worry about our house or car NOB, where we lived. However, I certainly would not recommend that to anyone new coming to that area. That would not be responsible of me, nor caring. That is something that they would decide, on their own, after much time in the area, or not. I realize, as the US takes in more people from other places and the population grows, "safe havens" will become more rare than now. I also realize that with each passing day, maybe I should lock up more often. I just hate losing the safe and secure feeling that I have had all my life. So, for me, and others like me, the world has become a much more dangerous place than it was 50 years ago, or 10 years ago. 

The trade off was in reference to things like weather. In Mexico where we live, the weather in Winter is nicer than in Texas, and also in Summer. But, Fall and Spring are better in Texas.  INHO.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

coondawg said:


> Or, maybe it's a location difference, like NYC is to small town Texas.


Where in Mexico did your wife grow up?


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

GARYJ65 said:


> I can understand that is different, I am a 50 yo, 1.8 m, 200 lb guy and life seems safe for me almost everywhere, but I have a 70 yo Mother and a 23 yo daughter and they don's seem to feel unsafe here, if that was the case, I would pack up and leave.
> Is the US safer? I don't know about that and I will not start with the subject of terrorism, serial killers, crazy people shooting others, etc.
> Yes, you get stopped, so what, I have never been threatened by those guys.
> Some places in the US, if you "look" Mexican or latino, they would also demand you to stop and show papers...
> ...


All I can tell you, Gary, is that where we live in Texas, is safer than where we have lived in Mexico. I can not speak for all of Mexico, just as you cannot speak for all of the US. In our travels NOB, we have never been stopped. We don't have the same problem or need for retenes as Mexico does.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

coondawg said:


> The trade off was in reference to things like weather. In Mexico where we live, the weather in Winter is nicer than in Texas, and also in Summer. But, Fall and Spring are better in Texas.  INHO.


One of the main reasons I like living in Mexico is the great weather we have all year round, no more freezing winters or hot-and-humid summers for me!


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

The more the US meddles in the Middle East and the least secure it wil be so get used to it because I do not see the meddling coming to an end anytime soon.

I am 5 foot tall travel alone in a lot of places in Mexico and have never been bothered by retenes or the army. They have always been polite. I have met lots of crooked cops but nothing one cannot handle. 
Last week I got stopped coming out of an indigenous village and the indigenous do get harassed , we did not have time to cook and were going to town to pick up some food. The police was polite to me and then they started asking a zillion questions from my friends who were obviously from 1 km down the road as they were all in traditional trajes. I told the police,that we are going to pick up some food and go back were we come from, nothing to get panicky about , they said ok and let us through.
I have seen many indigenous get hassled and the police tried to rob one of them in front of me so I know bad things happen but I am a woman and I have not been hassled in this country more than in anyother country. A lot of the hassle comes from your behaviour.. If you look at someone right in the eyes and tell them to back off most will..playing the woman looking at the ground in fear does not take you anywhere. I know that is what we were told to do when I was a kid but I found out a long time ago that it wakes up all the prey instect in guys rather than make them give up so be assertive and that will take care of them. Look at animals and learn from them they know.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

My guess these guys were too trusting, inexperienced w/Mexico and maybe made "friends" with the wrong people.

I made a back-back roads trip in Michoacan that looking back on I was quite lucky to not have run into trouble


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

citlali said:


> The more the US meddles in the Middle East and the least secure it wil be so get used to it because I do not see the meddling coming to an end anytime soon.
> 
> I am 5 foot tall travel alone in a lot of places in Mexico and have never been bothered by retenes or the army. They have always been polite. I have met lots of crooked cops but nothing one cannot handle.
> Last week I got stopped coming out of an indigenous village and the indigenous do get harassed , we did not have time to cook and were going to town to pick up some food. The police was polite to me and then they started asking a zillion questions from my friends who were obviously from 1 km down the road as they were all in traditional trajes. I told the police,that we are going to pick up some food and go back were we come from, nothing to get panicky about , they said ok and let us through.
> I have seen many indigenous get hassled and the police tried to rob one of them in front of me so I know bad things happen but I am a woman and I have not been hassled in this country more than in another country. A lot of the hassle comes from your behavior.. If you look at someone right in the eyes and tell them to back off most will..playing the woman looking at the ground in fear does not take you anywhere. I know that is what we were told to do when I was a kid but I found out a long time ago that it wakes up all the prey instinct in guys rather than make them give up so be assertive and that will take care of them. Look at animals and learn from them they know.


With animals, different strategies are required depending on the animal. With bears, you want to look small and be submissive. With mountain lions and other cats, you want to look as big as possible and be aggressive. The difference probably is that bears are not looking at you as a potential meal, but are concerned that you might be a threat. Cats look at anything vulnerable as a meal. 

I suspect the same kind of psychology applies in dealing with humans (police, military, bullies). If you are armed or 6'6" and 200 pounds or could otherwise be perceived as a threat, you would want to make it clear you are not a threat. But if it is obvious you are not a threat, then you want to make it clear you are not a victim either.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I learned from my cats and dogs and it helped me a lot in the corporate life and never needed guns to attack or defend myself. If someone wants to kill you and that person has a gun you probably will be dead soon..I know that much-


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

So it appears it was not cartel related but was a highway robbery gone wrong.. They were on the toll road when this happened so so much for the safety of the toll roads.

Three arrested in Mexico over suspected killing of two Australian tourists | World news | The Guardian


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

coondawg said:


> and Mexico has always had incidents like the "43", et alii, no?


México has had incidents like the 43's and worse, 1968 as well as Paris, and many others, US has had it's toll too; huge racial riots, people killing others because of their color, race, beliefs...


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

GARYJ65 said:


> people killing others because of their color, race, beliefs...


I'm glad those things don't happen in Mexico, too.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

coondawg said:


> I'm glad those things don't happen in Mexico, too.


When was the last time you saw a sign that reads "no ******, mexicans, dogs"
When did we have the last crucification and burned anyone here? And what about wearing silly white gowns and defending the white supremacy? Or anything like it
As near as when I was born, nasty things and killings were going on in the US about race, many more deaths than 43
México has a "war" against drugs, and many thousands of people have died and many more will, but not because they are dark


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

If you say so, Gary.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

coondawg said:


> If you say so, Gary.


 I was just asking, are people dying in México for being morenos? Nah


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

GARYJ65 said:


> I was just asking, are people dying in México for being morenos? Nah


If you say so, Gary.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

coondawg said:


> If you say so, Gary.


Did you run out of arguments?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

I think it is time to close this thread, so I am.


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