# Prepare yourselves - Winter of Discontent coming



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

On another thread people were discussing Prime Minister Heath's Winter of Discontent. I predict that it's coming to Spain this winter, hopefully for one season only, but it's very possible that Rajoy (destined to be our new Leader) will sponsor an extension.

We're talking about cuts in education, health and in town hall services. This means redundancies, unemployment, closures (of health centres) strikes, demonstrations. Discontent - Big Time

Madrid, Galicia, Castilla la Mancha and Navarra will all suffer education cuts this year resulting in huge number of unemployed teachers and support staff. Last year they had salary cuts and this year their timetable will include 2 extra hours. 
2 more hours I hear you say. No problem! It's not the best thing, but times are hard, we have to tighten our belts and other sage clichés.
Well, in Madrid those 2 hours translate into *1000* permanent contract teachers not getting work and _*3000*_ temporary contract teachers on top of that. Plus of course, the teachers that are left having to work more, for less money, and in much worse conditions (bigger classes, no "extras" like workshops for the kids, trips, photocopies, equipment not maintained...)
All this in a country whose_ Fracaso Escolar_ (literally school failure, referring to those who leave school with no qualifications) is a legendary _*30%!! *_
Great idea to cut education!!

Let this man explain it better

(This is a translation from El País. Full article here El significado de dos horas lectivas · ELPAÍS.com)
If you're not a doctor you can't operate "

Jose Luis Diez, director of an institute of vocational training. Jose Luis's accounts don't add up. This course there will be 60 teachers at his center, the institute San Blas, which is Formación Professional(A Training College, +16 education). The adjustment following the increase of hours means that they will be catering for 900 students with 10 teachers less than last year. In his case, moreover, the problem is that they aren't even interchangeable. A high school teacher of Physics, for example, can give Mathematics if you have not completed their schedule. Diez says that does not seem right, but understands that it happens. What is not possible, he continues, "is to allocate a specialist in electronics to give the wood workshops, car mechanics and socio-cultural animation." He sent a letter to the Directorate of Territorial Area (LEA) to complain, but has not yet received a response. "It's like putting someone who is not a doctor in to operate, crazy," the complaint continues. The letter sent by President Aguirre to all the teachers said, among other things, that they should work more. "We are not afraid to work whatever it takes, but we need more teachers."

I realise this is a bit of a rant, but perhaps the reason behind it all is that OH is one of those 3000 . President Aguirre is a nasty piece of work, only interested in her own advancement.
I also think it's important to understand what's behind the things that are happening around the country ATM


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> On another thread people were discussing Prime Minister Heath's Winter of Discontent. I predict that it's coming to Spain this winter, hopefully for one season only, but it's very possible that Rajoy (destined to be our new Leader) will sponsor an extension.
> 
> We're talking about cuts in education, health and in town hall services. This means redundancies, unemployment, closures (of health centres) strikes, demonstrations. Discontent - Big Time
> 
> ...


that is really scary on the larger scale of things - & really horrible for you on a personal level


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

So...why will people vote for a Party which will do all this?
Because it seems they will.
And, if as I fear, PP will get a clear majority and be able to form a Government.....if that's what people want, then that's democracy.
We've been discussing extra-Parliamentary action on another thread and the consensus seems to be that the electorate must decide.
I'm still waiting for constructive suggestions as to how the power of the financial institutions can be controlled by elected governments.
Plenty of justifiable griping but no feasible policies.
If a government can't borrow because it's bond yields are too high due to the markets worries about growth prospects, it can't pay pensions, wages and all the other government obligations. That's a fact that can't be ignored and calls for default and other such measures simply aren't a realistic possibility.
As I see it the only way out would be to get Europe and hopefully global agreement on regulation of financial institutions, controls over ratings agencies and redistributive measures such as the Tobin/Robin Hood tax. Slow progress is being made in this respect in the major economies but the emerging giants -Brazil, China etc. are less inclined to follow this path for obvious reasons.
I can't vote in November's elections but as a card-carrying PSOE member I shall try my hardest in the campaign to help formulate a practical response to the deep-seated economic problems not only of Spain but the whole of Europe and North America.
PSOE must not go the way of the French left...they are dinosaurs rooted in the thinking of the '70s who can never deliver on the extravagant pre-election policies they propose because of practical constraints of the world as it is.
I hope the PSOE campaign will be more progressive in the true sense of the word.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Lately I'm only hearing about cuts in health and education. Not sure I want to vote for Rajoy any more, but also I'm absolutely sure I'm not voting PSOE. 

What a mess

Im really sorry, Pesky.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Sonrisa said:


> Lately I'm only hearing about cuts in health and education. Not sure I want to vote for Rajoy any more, but also I'm absolutely sure I'm not voting PSOE.
> 
> What a mess
> 
> Im really sorry, Pesky.



Whoever is in charge will be forced to implement drastic austerity measures, that's for sure.
Investment in health and education, properly targeted to eliminate wasteful spending, is vital for economic growth.
But whatever we may wish to see, the awkward fact is that until we can implement measures that allow elected governments and not the markets to form economic and social policies, we shall be merely wringing our hands in vain.
And that is not cynicism or defeatism. It's facing up to how things are, not as we'd like them to be.
It's the same in the UK....the Coalition's cuts programme is too drastic.It risks plunging us into a double-dip recession. As in Spain, education and health services are due for cuts.
Sheer folly.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> > So...why will people vote for a Party which will do all this?
> > Because it seems they will.
> 
> 
> ...


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> On another thread people were discussing Prime Minister Heath's Winter of Discontent.


For the sake of accuracy, Callaghan was PM in the winter of discontent - not Heath.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> mrypg9 said:
> 
> 
> > Easy - I can answer that! Because in Spain, as in many countries, there are only 2 "real" alternatives for the voters to choose from. We've already "done" PSOE, and nobody can deny it's been done to death. The only other alternative for now is PP. Well that or revolution - people boicott the elections, new parties are constituted, throw out the financial system as we know it, give teachers, doctors, fire fighters and cleaners the salaries they deserve and free ice cream to kids. I don't think it's going to happen, so for now, it's PP. As they tell us on the inflight safety drill BRACE, BRACE!!
> ...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jimenato said:


> For the sake of accuracy, Callaghan was PM in the winter of discontent - not Heath.


OOPs!
However, I think people were pretty discontent with Heath and the three day week too...
Can I get away with that? 

Any more comments on the thread Jimenato?


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Any more comments on the thread Jimenato?


No, sorry - it's all way beyond me. I don't know why it all went wrong and I don't know how to put it right. I will make the observation that strikes/militant demonstrations rarely seem to do much good in our western democracies and generally just piss people off while they're having no effect - but beyond that:noidea:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jimenato said:


> No, sorry - it's all way beyond me. I don't know why it all went wrong and I don't know how to put it right. I will make the observation that strikes/militant demonstrations rarely seem to do much good in our western democracies and generally just piss people off while they're having no effect - but beyond that:noidea:



Look at it this way:

some people might say we are looking for something that just doesn't exist and can never be created, i.e. a perfect, harmonious society where there are no inequalities, no amassed wealth, generous social provision and a happy, peaceful existence with no nasty conflicts or economic disasters.
Socialists, neo-cons, humanists all believe that we can achieve such a society. They see history as an upward path where social and moral progress will match scientific and technological progress. This is a uniquely western concept.
Other cultures and philosophies take a different view and see history as a cyclical process where our flawed natures doom us to repeat our mistakes.
These cultures tend to be accepting, fatalistic if you prefer. 
The better our lives become, the more difficult for us to deal with hardship.
Since the beginning of recorded historyhuman life has been a story of good and bad times. The 'perfect' political and social system has yet to be invented (it won't be, ever).
We live, thankfully, in a pluralist society. That means we must accommodate a variety of ideas as to what constitutes the 'good' society.
For some it's an egalitarian world where wealth and privilege have no place. Others might view that as a vision of hell.
The art of politics is the skill of compromise.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2011)

PW - I just had a thought. Is he fluent in English? Could he get in contact with the Consejería and ask if they need anyone to fill in gaps from _Auxiliares de Conversación_ who have dropped out? It's not even close to the same thing, but it may be worth a try.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

More anti-immigrant graffiti on walls around here.
I read somewhere that Spain has restricted immigration from Romania.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> More anti-immigrant graffiti on walls around here.
> I read somewhere that Spain has restricted immigration from Romania.


It could've been here
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...ain/86930-romanians-required-work-permit.html

My post on it


> _Romania and Bulgaria joined the European Union in 2007, and Spain allowed their workers access to its labor market two years later. However, Spain has now gone back on that pledge by invoking a special safeguard rule to deal with exceptional circumstances, which was approved by the bloc’s executive, the European Commission, on Thursday. _
> 
> Full article here
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/12/wo...t-union12.htm


l


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

halydia said:


> PW - I just had a thought. Is he fluent in English? Could he get in contact with the Consejería and ask if they need anyone to fill in gaps from _Auxiliares de Conversación_ who have dropped out? It's not even close to the same thing, but it may be worth a try.


Thankfully we're not that desperate yet.

I don't think he would feel comfortable at inflicting his English on the innocent children of Spain anyway!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jimenato said:


> No, sorry - it's all way beyond me. I don't know why it all went wrong and I don't know how to put it right. I will make the observation that strikes/militant demonstrations rarely seem to do much good in our western democracies and generally just piss people off while they're having no effect - but beyond that:noidea:


Hahaha.
Don't worry, I wasn't asking you to come up with a solution to the problem!

You, and Mary, are probably right, demonstrations don't have much effect, as in changing the govenments course of action, but they do provide a focus for those affected and that's important too. I think something like a meeting or demonstration informs, binds and gives an important lift to people. Hundreds of people chanting the same thing can make you feel very much part of the group (After the train bombings in Madrid, or No a la Guerra!) or can scare the **** out of you (Pro ETA marches every Christmas in Bilbao)
On the other hand, if there are no public showings of dissatifaction the group is criticised as being inactive, passive and as having no right to complain after the government executs the cuts or goes to war or whatever.

With the health cuts and education cuts I do think it's important to demonstrate against them


Because people need to know what's happening to such important areas that effect *everyone*
Because for however much it pisses people off they're going to be much more pissed off when the cuts actually take place*.*
By the way, I do realise and take on board that cuts need to take place, but across the board and by cutting the superfluous, not the essential


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Thankfully we're not that desperate yet.
> 
> I don't think he would feel comfortable at inflicting his English on the innocent children of Spain anyway!!


I imagined not, but figured I'd suggest anyhow since I heard from one of the Education big wigs last night they're *still* looking for folks! (Hint hint to all of you out there who are interested in a teaching assistantship.)


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hahaha.
> Don't worry, I wasn't asking you to come up with a solution to the problem!
> 
> You, and Mary, are probably right, demonstrations don't have much effect, as in changing the govenments course of action, but they do provide a focus for those affected and that's important too. I think something like a meeting or demonstration informs, binds and gives an important lift to people. Hundreds of people chanting the same thing can make you feel very much part of the group (After the train bombings in Madrid, or No a la Guerra!) or can scare the **** out of you (Pro ETA marches every Christmas in Bilbao)
> ...






Don't get me wrong, I'm not against demos, I just don't think they can -or even should -change Government policy.
I said somewhere else that the gatherings in Madrid after the train bombings and in Oslo recently were very moving and totally necessary.
I would certainly join a march to express my opposition to health and education cuts. 
We really are in one hell of a mess...on our way to hell in a handcart, as my Nan used to say.
Sometimes the lure of a remote island away from the world and its problems with a few good friends and books and music seems very appealing..


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

halydia said:


> I imagined not, but figured I'd suggest anyhow since I heard from one of the Education big wigs last night they're *still* looking for folks! (Hint hint to all of you out there who are interested in a teaching assistantship.)


Well, he did get a grade B on the CAE this summer!!!!!!!!!!

But speaking was his worst part. I don't know why, I'm always speaking to him in English - or is that *at *him...

PS Can't _believe _they are still looking for people!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Don't get me wrong, I'm not against demos, I just don't think they can -or even should -change Government policy.
> I said somewhere else that the gatherings in Madrid after the train bombings and in Oslo recently were very moving and totally necessary.





Yes, again, you're probably right, they shouldn't change government policy, but it should make politicians at least reflect on their actions.

And yes, that's the right word - sometimes I really think a march or demo is just _necessary_.
When Miguel Angel Blanco was assassinated by ETA in 1997 the mayor of the town organised a march from one place to another, basically as a way to get people moving and to disperse negative energy that was building up. It was a smart move.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, he did get a grade B on the CAE this summer!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> But speaking was his worst part. I don't know why, I'm always speaking to him in English - or is that *at *him...
> 
> PS Can't _believe _they are still looking for people!


Hurray for him! That's quite the achievement. OH is on a big push to do the Trinity this year. Problem is, I think he'd be at about a ISE 0 level when he wants to be at a ISE II for work. 

I'm going to start speaking *at* him.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

OK, just to echar más leña al fuego as they say (put more wood on the fire)...
Ladies and Gentlemen - here are the latest unemployment figures!
Unemployment has risen by 51.185 people, that's 1,25%!!

And that, I think, is without the teachers who have been made redundant that I talked about in the first post because most of them are employed at least for the first week of September, sometimes first 2 weeks, so that the re sit exams are covered.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> OK, just to echar más leña al fuego as they say (put more wood on the fire)...
> Ladies and Gentlemen - here are the latest unemployment figures!
> Unemployment has risen by 51.185 people, that's 1,25%!!
> 
> And that, I think, is without the teachers who have been made redundant that I talked about in the first post because most of them are employed at least for the first week of September, sometimes first 2 weeks, so that the re sit exams are covered.


Normally an unemployment percentage of 21% and rising would lead to civil war. It says a great deal about the fortitude and forbearance of Spanish people that there have been no major disturbances. Maybe it's fatalism....
Spain needs growth. For growth you need educated, healthy people.
Any Government that cuts deeply in these areas is cutting its own throat.
I think concerted European action via the EU to put in place meaningful curbs on speculative financial transactions such as the Tobin Tax is of prime importance.
The people need to know about this redistributive tax and the huge boost it would give to public finances.
In the UK there is huge public support for it. My Union is involved in the Robin Hood Tax campaign (as it's known in the UK) and has helped finance and produce educational material. Merkel and Sarkozy are among powerful European leaders pledging lukewarm support.
But to be effective it must be applied globally and Europe is a good place to start.
So why the hesitation??
Has this tax been talked about by Spanish politicians, do you know?
It should be in the PSOE Manifesto at least.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

> Mrypg9 The people need to know about this redistributive tax and the huge boost it would give to public finances.
> In the UK there is huge public support for it. My Union is involved in the Robin Hood Tax campaign (as it's known in the UK) and has helped finance and produce educational material. Merkel and Sarkozy are among powerful European leaders pledging lukewarm support.
> But to be effective it must be applied globally and Europe is a good place to start.
> So why the hesitation??
> ...


They have been, and are, talking about taxes and "the rich", but I don't know if they are talking about increasing or decreasing the rate, and I don't know how the rate compares to other countries of europe. There's a paragraph about it in this article. Make sure you publish your findings!
El impuesto a los ricos se hace esperar · ELPAÍS.com


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

halydia said:


> Hurray for him! That's quite the achievement. OH is on a big push to do the Trinity this year. Problem is, I think he'd be at about a ISE 0 level when he wants to be at a ISE II for work.
> 
> I'm going to start speaking *at* him.


Is suppose he's doing it to get more points on the opposiciones, like my man, is he? Not for love of the in laws...


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Is suppose he's doing it to get more points on the opposiciones, like my man, is he? Not for love of the in laws...


Of course. He actually has learned to communicate quite well with the _suegros_. The problem is, his writing skills and grammar are not that great.

If the Trinity were based upon ability to speak with a scary father in law about WWII airplanes, he'd get the highest score possible. Who can I write to to ask for a test change?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Pesky Wesky said:
> 
> 
> > But local councils depend on central government for finance in Spain as in the UK, don't they?
> ...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

halydia said:


> Of course. He actually has learned to communicate quite well with the _suegros_. The problem is, his writing skills and grammar are not that great.
> 
> If the Trinity were based upon ability to speak with a scary father in law about WWII airplanes, he'd get the highest score possible. Who can I write to to ask for a test change?


Yes, OH would have done considerably better in the speaking if he'd been able to down half a gallon of Rioja before going in. The examining boards are not very student friendly I feel...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> [
> 
> Not really. Each autonomous community and municipality raises its own taxes and sets its own budgets. That's why the ACs vary so much in policy and why some cities are literally going bankrupt and can't pay their employees.
> 
> You may have heard that in Castilla-La Mancha the farmacias went on strike last week because they haven't been paid by the AC for the drugs they have been dispensing to patients.


But these Councils receive bloc grants from central government too, don't they?

So...if the farmacias were on strike....how did people obtain drugs which may have been essential for their health and well-being?


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> But these Councils receive bloc grants from central government too, don't they?
> 
> So...if the farmacias were on strike....how did people obtain drugs which may have been essential for their health and well-being?


I'm sure that ayuntamientos get central grants - it's why we're always being encouraged to register on the padron isn't it - so they get all they are entitled to?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jimenato said:


> I'm sure that ayuntamientos get central grants - it's why we're always being encouraged to register on the padron isn't it - so they get all they are entitled to?


TBH I'm not sure how it works. I would imagine the comunidades get most, if not all the money for education from central government. 
However what I can tell you is that each comunidad can do what it likes about education, no matter what part it's from.
Esperanza Aguirre is president of the comunidad and Alberto Gallardon is the mayor in Madrid. They are both from the PP and both have been in power for years. Aguirre is the one behind the education cuts that I started the thread about, not Zappo, not central gov.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> But these Councils receive bloc grants from central government too, don't they?
> 
> So...if the farmacias were on strike....how did people obtain drugs which may have been essential for their health and well-being?


The farmacias were only on strike for one day (advertised well in advance) and of course they made provision for emergencies. The purpose was to draw public attention to the fact that they haven't been paid - some are likely to close altogether if they don't get the money soon as pharmacists are having to borrow money to buy stock.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> TBH I'm not sure how it works. I would imagine the comunidades get most, if not all the money for education from central government.
> However what I can tell you is that each comunidad can do what it likes about education, no matter what part it's from.
> Esperanza Aguirre is president of the comunidad and Alberto Gallardon is the mayor in Madrid. They are both from the PP and both have been in power for years. Aguirre is the one behind the education cuts that I started the thread about, not Zappo, not central gov.


I suspect the set-up is much the same as in the UK and other EU states.
Central Government passes on money to county and district councils who then have some discretion as to how its spent.
In the UK, the business rate (Non Domestic Rate) is collected centrally and disbursed to local authorities.
Spanish regions have of course much more autonomy than in the UK.
Grinan in Andalucia has opposed cuts in the education budget but I guess he will last only until the next regional election if the results of May's elections are anything to go by.
Talk about turkeys voting for Christmas....
But the will of the people....
And as I often say we live in a pluralist society. People are entitled to make what you or I might see as grievous misjudgments at the ballot box.
Others aka the majority differ.
When the Tories were in power from 1979 to 1997 I spent nearly every waking hour trying to get our people elected at all levels of government. We had more failures than successes in spite of all our efforts - we couldn't convince people.
If you believe in parliamentary democracy which as thrax' signature says isn't perfect but is the best way we've found of expressing the wishes of the majority you accept defeat, get into the system you want to change and organise and agitate.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Carles Francino on La Ser (radio station) did a bit about the various cuts that are being put into operation around Spain. All have something to do with the recession one way or another. For example the problem with street lighting in Jerez is because the company that is contracted to change the bulbs and general maintenance hasn't been paid by the ayuntamiento...
Examples 
Jerez - 19 areas of the city have no street lighting
Valencia - Rubbish hasn't been collected for 6 days
Hospitalet - Nurseries run with public money have put their fees up by 20€ a month.
Barcelona - 4 bus lines are being closed
Murcia - Health workers (I think it was health workers) don't know what timetable they're going to be working nor when they'll get paid
Santander - Teka (well known brand of cookers etc) is going to close down
  
Link to this part of programme here
El mapa de los recortes en 'Hoy por Hoy' (12/01/2012) | Sonido | Cadena SER


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## Guest (Jan 14, 2012)

Teka is sending operations to Turkey. It's been tough to read the articles in the local papers. They're saying 198 jobs (half of all employees) will be cut, and there's a tradition in the factory of whole families being employed there (father-son, brothers, etc.) 

Here's an article where the company justifies the layoffs saying they lost 8 million last year: Teka alega unas prdidas de casi 8 millones para justificar el despido de 198 trabajadores. eldiariomontanes.es


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The downgrading of nine Eurozone states whilst not fatal - see example of US -will have the effect of making borrowing even more costly. It will also deter some important investment companies from buying bonds rated as less than Triple A as they are barred by their rules...these are companies which handle no-risk accounts such as pension funds etc.
At last heads of these institutions are calling for growth coupled with the necessary measures to cut the deficits. 'Too much austerity is leading to recession', they warn.
Well, well....some of us, less in thrall to failed neo-con economic theory have been pointing that out for quite a while.
Under Gordon Brown's leadership, the world united to save the global financial system from collapsing by mobilising funds for bail-outs. This was vessential...no economy can function without liquidity and no liquidity without functioning and stable financial institutions.
So...why is there no scheme underway to mount a similar operation to raise a 'Growth Bail-Out'?
People who scoff at Brown's management of the UK economy...and I'm no fan of GB, imo he made several bad mistakes.....have to give him credit, however grudgingly, for his leadership in 2007 -2008.
Where is the leader now? Merkel will rein in any printing of money to fund a ECB bailout fund for understandable fears of hyperinflation rooted in German history of the last century.
The very idea of Cameron or Osborne as a world leader is risible.
Sarkozy is a clown likely to be forced out of the circus very soon.
Obama has problems of his own, although the economy is beginning to show some improvement.
Unless there is money available to kickstart the economies of the EU -not just the peripheral ones or those in the Eurozone - the world will be dragged into recession.
Recessions breed tensions. Tensions lead to discontent both within nations and internationally. Resources are scarce.
I cannot believe the shortsightedness and lack of understanding of those elected to lead and govern the world's nations.
All these highly educated, hugely experienced, influential 'movers and shakers'.....all seemingly impotent before the growing crisis.
I'm not a doom-monger - crises are endemic to capitalism. They come and go, as Kondratiev's wave-theory illustrates (well worth googling if you don't know it).
We'll be out of this eventually but the whole process is being prolonged and unnecessary human suffering and damage to social cohesion will be inevitable unless someone takes the controls of this runaway train.


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