# True or False



## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Have heard that if you Laminate your small Green Tarjeta de Residencia it invalidates it. Anyone know if this is true or false?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Why would you want to do that? It is literally laminated in that it is in a plastic cover.


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

kaipa said:


> Why would you want to do that? It is literally laminated in that it is in a plastic cover.


Seems many have and are concerned they have invalidated their documentation by doing so, in answer to "why you would want to do that" reading comments elsewhere many were even told to do so and given directions where to get it done. Just curious as to if in fact they have invalidated them or not. I assume you don't know the answer.


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

Love Karma said:


> Have heard that if you Laminate your small Green Tarjeta de Residencia it invalidates it. Anyone know if this is true or false?


I don´t believe it invalidates it, but I´m sure I read somewhere that it is forbidden to do so. Keep the original safe and laminate a photocopy to carry around with you.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Love Karma said:


> Seems many have and are concerned they have invalidated their documentation by doing so, in answer to "why you would want to do that" reading comments elsewhere many were even told to do so and given directions where to get it done. Just curious as to if in fact they have invalidated them or not. I assume you don't know the answer.


 Just to be clear, I don't know the answer. I don't even have a card as I still have the A4 certificate.
I don't know why anyone would laminate the card as it's something you keep at home, not on your person. It's unlikely to wear out. I have only used mine a handful of times to go on and off self employment and once or twice in a bank.
I use my Spanish driving licence for ID most times and the certificate of residence card can't be used for ID anyway. If something more official is needed then it's the original of the passport.

I think what people might have got plastified is a photocopy, but as I say, it's not needed anyway.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I keep mine in a plastic cover (it looks like it is laminated) because I do carry ot all the time, and when I went this week to change my address, the policeman in extranjería took it and said "you're not allowed to laminate it!" in a stern voice.
I pointed out that it was a cover and could be removed and he calmed down and apologised, but the message was clear. 
However, given that it is a certificate of registering, the fact that it may be laminated, folded, burned or defaced won't change the fact that you have registered, so to say that it "invalidates" it seems to be stretching it a bit, although I am sure there would be funcionarios who would refuse to accept it. They are trained to look for ways to avoid completing applications and procedures!


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Also curious to know if after 29th March if we have exited the EU and are under NON EU Rules whether we will need to show it with our passports at the NON EU entry point at Spanish airports?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Love Karma said:


> Also curious to know if after 29th March if we have exited the EU and are under NON EU Rules whether we will need to show it with our passports at the NON EU entry point at Spanish airports?


No, you don't have to be a registered resident in a country in order to enter it


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Love Karma said:


> Also curious to know if after 29th March if we have exited the EU and are under NON EU Rules whether we will need to show it with our passports at the NON EU entry point at Spanish airports?


According to the Moncloa website information to British people in Spain, the certificate will logically cease to be valid as we will no longer be citizens of the EU.
The Spanish government is currently planning to issue us with either a temporary document to replace it (possibly a TIE) or a permanent replacement, again, probably a "special" TIE.

It seems unlikely that this will happen on 29th March however because either there will be an agreement with a transition period (during which the green cert will still apply as it does today), or the Article 50 will be postponed to avoid a no deal exit.

But yes, eventually we will not be going through the EU line at passport control and we will need the TIE (or whatever it will be called) to enter Spain, and whatever visa requirements will apply to enter any other EU country where we are not residents.

That's my take on it all anyway.


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Pesky Wesky said:


> No, you don't have to be a registered resident in a country in order to enter it


No indeed, but as a non EU citizen after 29th March would you not need to show you are resident rather than a tourist so you would not fall foul of any 90 day rule etc and leave yourself open to all sorts of problems


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Overandout said:


> It seems unlikely that this will happen on 29th March however because either there will be an agreement with a transition period (during which the green cert will still apply as it does today), or the Article 50 will be postponed to avoid a no deal exit.
> .
> 
> That's my take on it all anyway.


So if travelling soon after the 29th March we will need to carry the original A4 Residencia Doc or the card to show we are resident when entering Spain?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

If there is a transition period as per the proposed agreement, the full freedom of movement applies throughout, so there will be no distinction between tourists and residents, same as today.

So, I don't think we will need the green cert to enter Spain.


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Overandout said:


> If there is a transition period as per the proposed agreement, the full freedom of movement applies throughout, so there will be no distinction between tourists and residents, same as today.
> 
> So, I don't think we will need the green cert to enter Spain.


That is very good to know and reassuring. As I could foresee all sorts of problems if after March 29th we had to enter via the NON EU Channels.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Overandout said:


> If there is a transition period as per the proposed agreement, the full freedom of movement applies throughout, so there will be no distinction between tourists and residents, same as today.
> 
> So, I don't think we will need the green cert to enter Spain.


I agree - unless the worst happens & the UK crashes out with no deal

Eventually of course, whatever happens, we'll have to have TIEs, which we *will *have to carry.


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

xabiaxica said:


> I agree - unless the worst happens & the UK crashes out with no deal
> 
> Eventually of course, whatever happens, we'll have to have TIEs, which we *will *have to carry.


So if we do crash out with no deal I can't see travel to and from the U.K being a straight forward procedure in the short term.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Love Karma said:


> So if we do crash out with no deal I can't see travel to and from the U.K being a straight forward procedure in the short term.


This will depend on the speed with which the Spanish authorities can react.... not entirely confidence inspiring I admit, but at least they have got a plan in place (more than can be said for the UK!)

The biggest danger "could" come from the almost certain change in the Spanish government after recent events, but I am hoping that a right wing government in Spain would concentrate on other issues rather than breaking up plans to deal with Brexit. :fingerscrossed:


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

No it won't be quite so straightforward I would imagine. The UK will no doubt place all EU nationals into non UK nationals lanes. So anyone not carrying UK passports will be subject to more rigourous checks etc. The Spanish government have made clear that everything needs to reciprocal so can't see them just ushering us Brits through as they do now. And as it is any non EU persons with Spanish residency still have to enter through non EU lanes. So I don't think having residency will make much difference unless the UK agrees to do that EU nationals with UK residency which they can't as Settled status individuals don't carry ID cards.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiaxica said:


> I agree - unless the worst happens & the UK crashes out with no deal
> 
> Eventually of course, whatever happens, we'll have to have TIEs, which we *will *have to carry.


And so we'll have gone full circle, back to the times when we all have card sized photo ID !


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Overandout said:


> This will depend on the speed with which the Spanish authorities can react.... not entirely confidence inspiring I admit
> :


I would have ZERO confidence of anything being up and running at Spanish entry points any time soon if we crash out, in any eventuality tbh.
Have the Spanish authorities got systems in place to replace our green residencias with the TIE's? And in what time frame? I would seriously doubt it.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Other problem might be if we need to provide documentation beyond simply showing we already have residency.


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

kaipa said:


> Other problem might be if we need to provide documentation beyond simply showing we already have residency.


Yes there is that also, not sure but I think the income and bank figures are much higher for the third country non euro people


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

kaipa said:


> Other problem might be if we need to provide documentation beyond simply showing we already have residency.


The "Moncloa" website says clearly that the green cert is the document which will give us the right to automatically transition to the TIE. Although it does also say that the exact process is still being finalized...


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I'm not suggesting that you will be required to have non EU requirements that would negate the whole idea of having residency before Brexit wouldn't it? No what is likely is that you might need to provide padron, address, employment contract and ( only a rumour) tax and model 720s ( or proof that you don't need these


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

kaipa said:


> I'm not suggesting that you will be required to have non EU requirements that would negate the whole idea of having residency before Brexit wouldn't it? No what is likely is that you might need to provide padron, address, employment contract and ( only a rumour) tax and model 720s ( or proof that you don't need these


So not really an "automatic transition" to the TIE then if extra documentation may be required then.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Well I don't think you just give them your card and that's it. They will obviously will require more than just an ID check. EU nationals have to provide lots of documents and fill out online forms before they will receive settled status


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

kaipa said:


> Well I don't think you just give them your card and that's it. They will obviously will require more than just an ID check. EU nationals have to provide lots of documents and fill out online forms before they will receive settled status


Exactly, so not in any way an "automatic transition" as suggested then


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Well not automatic in the sense that I suppose they could just inform everyone by letter. You will have to apply to get it but you won't be expected to show requirements of anyone new arriving


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

kaipa said:


> Well I don't think you just give them your card and that's it. They will obviously will require more than just an ID check. EU nationals have to provide lots of documents and fill out online forms before they will receive settled status





Love Karma said:


> Exactly, so not in any way an "automatic transition" as suggested then


You think or you know?

Subtle difference. 


I fail to see how discussions around what if, it might or they’re all going to come around in a greenvan and deport us adds to the debate. 


This is why I don’t post on here much these days. People post official links to the government websites of both the U.K. and Spain and others just seem to invest time and energy into speculation.


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Megsmum said:


> You think or you know?
> 
> Subtle difference.
> 
> ...


My initial question was quite straight forward.
_"Have heard that if you Laminate your small Green Tarjeta de Residencia it invalidates it. Anyone know if this is true or false?"_
However no straight forward answers were forthcoming instead it has got many interesting replies on the subject. Was not intended as a debate in any way. I don't "think or know" which is why I posed the question.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

The printing on the original card (or so I'm told) tends to rub off, so many people carry laminated copies round with them, or slip a copy underneath the transparent back cover of their mobile phones.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Regarding whether you'll need to prove you're a resident on re-entering Spain immediately after Brexit, the recent online advice from the British ambassador was to take your residencia with you "just in case".


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Alcalaina said:


> Regarding whether you'll need to prove you're a resident on re-entering Spain immediately after Brexit, the recent online advice from the British ambassador was to take your residencia with you "just in case".


Thank you.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

I copied my green cert and laminated that. The original is stored carefully at home. It is almost imposible to read the date on it The laminated copy is still good as new 

About carrying it. Yes one is obliged to carry the original green card but then we are also obliged to carry our original British passport which in law is our only Legal ID. Most of us ignore that and at he best carry a credit card sized, laminated copy passport, without to many problems 

If we become non EU after Brexit then we will almost certainly be in the same position as non EU nationals are now. So we will need a RESIDENCIA again. That be an official ID and laminated so most may be happy to comply with the law they we must carry it


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

PS. The police say a laminated green card must be replaced as laminating it is strictly prohibited 

But as always most ignore what they do not like


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

From information forthcoming from here and other forums it does seem that if you possess the small card format residencia and have had it laminated it is now Invalid and should be replaced.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Juan C said:


> About carrying it. Yes one is obliged to carry the original green card but then we are also obliged to carry our original British passport which in law is our only Legal ID. Most of us ignore that and at he best carry a credit card sized, laminated copy passport, without to many problems


 I have never heard that there is an obligation to carry the green certificate or card. As it doesn't serve as ID it seems unlikely. Is there a link to further info?
A copy of a GB passport will never be accepted in an official capacity (and much less if it's reduced and plasticized) for example in tourist accommodation, in a bank, social security offices, tax offices, by traffic police, guardia civil, the post office... It may be accepted by Pepe at the local bar/ garage, but then why would Pepe want it?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

On a FB group someone stated it was law that you had to carry your residencia (meaning green card) around with you.

I asked for a source and, of course, none was forthcoming.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

There is absolutely no point carrying an EU resident cert or card around.

There's nothing on it proving that it belongs to whoever is carrying it. 


I've searched for official proof that you have to carry it but can't even find anything 'unofficial' beyond forum discussions.

If anyone does have an official link stating the requirement, please post it.

It IS a requirement to carry official photo ID, however. 

If stopped by the police they can ask to see your ID. You can tell them your NIE & they can check by computer (even from the¡r car) that the number is yours.


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

xabiaxica said:


> There is absolutely no point carrying an EU resident cert or card around.
> 
> .


Maybe we may need to carry it in original form after March 29th when travelling back to Spain from U.K if we have to enter through Non EU entry channel to prove one is resident and not a tourist. But who knows, interesting times ahead.


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## Brangus (May 1, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> No, you don't have to be a registered resident in a country in order to enter it


True, but ultimately the immigration officer decides. If you try to enter without proof of residence and don't have a return ticket or other paperwork (see link), they can deny entrance.

This Spanish government website details the documents required of non-EU travellers:
Entrada: requisitos y condiciones - Ministerio del Interior

As the website states, a letter of invitation and other paperwork might be requested even of those travelling to Spain on holiday.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Brangus said:


> True, but ultimately the immigration officer decides. If you try to enter without proof of residence and don't have a return ticket or other paperwork (see link), they can deny entrance.
> 
> This Spanish government website details the documents required of non-EU travellers:
> Entrada: requisitos y condiciones - Ministerio del Interior
> ...


 Yes it might/ will probably change, but as far as I understand, up until now "the green card" is something you have had to have as a member of the EU residing in Spain, but you have NOT had to carry it with you. I also understand that until further notice it will carry on being that way as it serves no ID purpose, not having a photo. And, further to that, it has been stated (can't say exactly by whom) that there will be an extended transition period in order for people to be issued with whatever legal ID is deemed necessary for British people who have the status of permanent resident in Spain.
When I next go out of the country at Easter, I will do my upmost to remember to take the document with me, but in all honesty I can't imagine having to show it. If I do, so be it. I'll also be crossing my fingers hoping that they'll let me back in to carry on sharing my life with my husband and daughter!


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes it might/ will probably change, but as far as I understand, up until now "the green card" is something you have had to have as a member of the EU residing in Spain, but you have NOT had to carry it with you. I also understand that until further notice it will carry on being that way as it serves no ID purpose, not having a photo. And, further to that, it has been stated (can't say exactly by whom) that there will be an extended transition period in order for people to be issued with whatever legal ID is deemed necessary for British people who have the status of permanent resident in Spain.
> When I next go out of the country at Easter, I will do my upmost to remember to take the document with me, but in all honesty I can't imagine having to show it. If I do, so be it. I'll also be crossing my fingers hoping that they'll let me back in to carry on sharing my life with my husband and daughter!


Be very interesting to know which immigration Channel you are told to use and the ease of passage or not as the case maybe.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I have never heard that there is an obligation to carry the green certificate or card. As it doesn't serve as ID it seems unlikely. Is there a link to further info?
> A copy of a GB passport will never be accepted in an official capacity (and much less if it's reduced and plasticized) for example in tourist accommodation, in a bank, social security offices, tax offices, by traffic police, guardia civil, the post office... It may be accepted by Pepe at the local bar/ garage, but then why would Pepe want it?


The only times I've ever had to show my green certificate was at the bank a few years ago when they were digitising ID documents, and recently when I got a new mobile phone from Yoigo, which surprised me somewhat as I've had a contract with them for eight years. (I had to drive home and get it!)

For accommodation bookings etc I have often just been asked to email a scan of my passport. All they need is the number.

I haven't been asked for ID in a supermarket for ten years at least. 

I have to recite my NIE when accepting deliveries from SEUR, Correos etc but I've never had to show a paper copy.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> The only times I've ever had to show my green certificate was at the bank a few years ago when they were digitising ID documents, and recently when I got a new mobile phone from Yoigo, which surprised me somewhat as I've had a contract with them for eight years. (I had to drive home and get it!)
> 
> For accommodation bookings etc I have often just been asked to email a scan of my passport. All they need is the number.
> 
> ...


I have to confess that I have made up my NIE number a couple of times. Once our baggage was lost flying from Madrid to Malaga. It was delivered 24 hours later and there was paperwork to fill in including NIE. Didn't know where it was, thought it may be in UK. Ran in the house and picked up the yellow pages and found one ad giving their no so I copied it.

Not come across it booking accommodation...yet


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