# Towns above 1000 meters besides Segovia?



## dancebert (Jun 4, 2015)

Other than Segovia, are there towns at or above 1000m elevation with population 25k or more? Ideally any such town would be within a 3 hour public transit ride from a town of 250k population or more. Any comments about air pollution from your first hand experience would be welcome.

My research turned up villages, towns under 5k population and one place filled with tourists and second homes - San Lorenzo de El Escorial.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

dancebert said:


> Other than Segovia, are there towns at or above 1000m elevation with population 25k or more? Ideally any such town would be within a 3 hour public transit ride from a town of 250k population or more. Any comments about air pollution from your first hand experience would be welcome.
> 
> My research turned up villages, towns under 5k population and one place filled with tourists and second homes - San Lorenzo de El Escorial.


That's a funny description of San Lorenzo 
It certainly does receive a large number of tourists, and there are second homes there, but there is a stalwart indigenous population, I can assure you!
I was there last Friday for an amazing short walk in the hills named Abantos. There was a fire there about 10 years ago, but it was repopulated with native plants in an award winning programme and it was bursting with flowering retamar, cantueso and so on.

I think you'll be hard pushed to find what you're looking for in Spain, let alone Segovia and surroundings. Here's a link to places to be found in Spain at over 1000m. The numbers of the population are not in 1000's, so when it says 60 people live there for example, it means 60.

Pueblos más altos de España

PS make sure you know your visa options before making any plans to come!


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## dancebert (Jun 4, 2015)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I think you'll be hard pushed to find what you're looking for in Spain, let alone Segovia and surroundings.


I don't understand this, what am I missing? Segovia meets both the elevation and population criteria in my question.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

dancebert said:


> I don't understand this, what am I missing? Segovia meets both the elevation and population criteria in my question.


Well_*, I think *_there's Segovia and little else in that area, at that height, with that population. I may be wrong. You can look at the link.
Reading your post again it seems I misread and thought you were talking about the area around Segovia, but still, most high up towns, and over 1000m is thought of as high here, tend to be on the smaller side rather than the bigger.
See what others who know different areas of Spain better than I do have to say!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

dancebert said:


> I don't understand this, what am I missing? Segovia meets both the elevation and population criteria in my question.



I thought your post sounded as if you'd discounted Segovia :confused2:

you ask about air pollution - is it especially altitude you want or clean air?

you don't necessarily have to go high to get clean air


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

I don't do hills. (Even when I drive)


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## dancebert (Jun 4, 2015)

xabiachica said:


> I thought your post sounded as if you'd discounted Segovia :confused2:
> 
> you ask about air pollution - is it especially altitude you want or clean air?


Seems to me my mention of Segovia showed I already knew about it, so was seeking additional towns.

I can see how my wording about air pollution could be clearer. If there are towns that meet my elevation and size criteria, then I welcome any info about air pollution.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

In most of Spian, the air quality is considered satisfactory, and air pollution poses little or no risk whatsoever. 

I live 12 meters above sea levels and air is very good here. I would think that other than the centre of Madrid and Barcelona, the rest of Spain is 'safe'...

Air Pollution in Spain: Real-time Air Quality Index Visual Map


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Lolito said:


> In most of Spian, the air quality is considered satisfactory, and air pollution poses little or no risk whatsoever.
> 
> I live 12 meters above sea levels and air is very good here. I would think that other than the centre of Madrid and Barcelona, the rest of Spain is 'safe'...
> 
> Air Pollution in Spain: Real-time Air Quality Index Visual Map


that's why I was asking - I live AT sea level & we have incredibly clean air


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## Brangus (May 1, 2010)

Cuenca's old town, up on the cliffs with the famous "hanging houses." It's 1 hour by fast train to Madrid.

Also look at Ávila.



dancebert said:


> Other than Segovia, are there towns at or above 1000m elevation with population 25k or more? Ideally any such town would be within a 3 hour public transit ride from a town of 250k population or more.


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Avila, Soria y Segovia are the only 3 cities in Spain that are over 1000 meters high. (Segovia being 1002...!)

Ranking de las capitales de provincia m?s altas de Espa?a - Classora Knowledge Base

After those three, we have Cuenca, Burgos, Teruel, Leon, Salamanca, Palencia, Valladolid, Albacete and Guadalajara.


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## dancebert (Jun 4, 2015)

Brangus said:


> Cuenca's old town, up on the cliffs with the famous "hanging houses." It's 1 hour by fast train to Madrid.
> 
> Also look at Ávila.


Thanks. I'd never heard of either place.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Never been to Soria, but I could quite happily imagine myself spending any remote chance I might have of retirement in Avila or Segovia...

All that roasted kid goat in winter!!!

Nice plan.


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## ccm47 (Oct 15, 2013)

Personally I'd give Teruel a miss.
We use the motorway that runs round it quite frequently.
The motorway at that point is always much cooler than the road leading to and fro by several degrees, not nice in winter.
We did deviate into the town on one occasion, and found nothing that warranted mention or even looking at. 
Will gladly stop again if somebody on here can contradict me.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Dancebert, I notice that you are in Thailand, as I am.

If I can be of any help to you (I lived for 9 years in Madrid, so know Spain quite well), just let me know.


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## Brangus (May 1, 2010)

One advantage that Cuenca has is that it's really well-connected by high-speed rail to large cities. Besides Madrid, which I mentioned earlier, Cuenca is about 1 hour to Valencia, 1.5 hours to Alicante, 2 hours to Cordoba and 3 hours to Sevilla.



dancebert said:


> Ideally any such town would be within a 3 hour public transit ride from a town of 250k population or more.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Brangus said:


> One advantage that Cuenca has is that it's really well-connected by high-speed rail to large cities. Besides Madrid, which I mentioned earlier, Cuenca is about 1 hour to Valencia, 1.5 hours to Alicante, 2 hours to Cordoba and 3 hours to Sevilla.


But it is actually below 1000m...

Soria is a beautiful area, it's a small town and it is pretty cold in the winter. We found a bar that had a large pipe running along the length of the bar as a form of central heating. I think we went there three times in one afternoon the Easter we were visiting, just to warm up. Oh, they did have delicious torrijas too!
Torrija - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Lolito said:


> Avila, Soria y Segovia are the only 3 cities in Spain that are over 1000 meters high. (Segovia being 1002...!)
> 
> Ranking de las capitales de provincia m?s altas de Espa?a - Classora Knowledge Base
> 
> After those three, we have Cuenca, Burgos, Teruel, Leon, Salamanca, Palencia, Valladolid, Albacete and Guadalajara.


All characterised by being absolutely bl**dy freezing winter. Especially Avila which is right next to the mountains


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Chopera said:


> All characterised by being absolutely bl**dy freezing winter. Especially Avila which is right next to the mountains


Living in Thailand, I can fully appreciate why being "bl**dy freezing" in winter would be quite an attractive proposition for the OP!

On my last trip to Europe (Berlin in February), I was outside in the street smoking in just a shirt on my upper body. A colleague asked me "aren't you cold?" and I replied "yes! and I'm loving it, I have to enjoy it while I can!"


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

ccm47 said:


> Personally I'd give Teruel a miss.
> We use the motorway that runs round it quite frequently.
> The motorway at that point is always much cooler than the road leading to and fro by several degrees, not nice in winter.
> We did deviate into the town on one occasion, and found nothing that warranted mention or even looking at.
> Will gladly stop again if somebody on here can contradict me.


Centre of Teruel contains some of the best Mudéjar architecture in Spain, as well as some interesting Modernista examples. Admittedly the centre is not that big and can definitely be "done" in a day, but it's definitely worth stopping off at.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

dancebert said:


> Other than Segovia, are there towns at or above 1000m elevation with population 25k or more? Ideally any such town would be within a 3 hour public transit ride from a town of 250k population or more. Any comments about air pollution from your first hand experience would be welcome.


I think that one of the problems we are having is "Why"? 

As you have seen, we can come up with a number of places that fit the height but not population criterion and vice versa. If you explained more, we might be able to help you more. For example, where I live is a long way from any real industry so we don't have industrial pollution and we are at 723m with a population of about 5,000. 12 km away is a town pop. 22k at 908m and again no industrial pollution. However, we are surrounded by millions (literally - maybe even billions) of olive trees so, if you are allergic to olive pollen, this is not the place for you. At certain times of the year there is a lot of wood-smoke in the air where they burn the prunings from the trees (essential to prevent the spread of pests and diseases), which is not unpleasant. We have a log-burner (heats the house) which produces very little visible smoke because it burns at high temperature and the smoke particulates get thoroughly burnt.


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## Brangus (May 1, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> But it is actually below 1000m...


Yes, you caught me cheating. Cuenca's average altitude between the upper and lower parts is below 1000m, but the walled old town is above 1000m. Being a big nerd, I did specify the old town in my first post.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Brangus said:


> Yes, you caught me cheating. Cuenca's average altitude between the upper and lower parts is below 1000m, but the walled old town is above 1000m. Being a big nerd, I did specify the old town in my first post.


Now you see, I didn't know that, not having ever been there.
Maybe this summer for a day visit or overnight...


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

Why the fixation with 1000m? I live at just over 900m on the other side of the mountains - the Sierra de Guadarrama - to Segovia, and there are many towns in the area, as well as El Escorial, that might suit you. 40km north of Madrid, with all the commerce and culture you could wish for, an excellent road network, yet in the countryside with stunning views and proper seasons. Maybe change your search criteria a few metres?



> ...repopulated with native plants in an award winning programme and it was bursting with flowering retamar, cantueso and so on.


Pesky, I've been noticing the hills glowing yellow in the last week or two, stunning.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Cuenca is one of the places on the bucket list along with Toledo, Salamanca and Santander.


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## dancebert (Jun 4, 2015)

Chopera said:


> All characterised by being absolutely bl**dy freezing winter.


 Born and raised in a Southern California beach town, I went to grad school in Illinois for 3 years. First year there was the coldest in 100 years. It was no big deal because I brought my mountaineering outerwear. Stylish? No. Warm? Yes. 

IMHO bl**dy freezing doesn't start until 0 degrees F (-17 C). Segovia's average low temps are just above 0 C, Cuenca's lowest average low is -3 C, according to one source.


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## dancebert (Jun 4, 2015)

Madliz said:


> Why the fixation with 1000m?


Because if I said 1000m, people would reply with towns at 900m+. Thanks for the info about Sierra de Guadarrama.

Decades ago I learned I was allergic to dust mites. Last year I learned they don't live above 1500m. At around 1000m plus dry air, dust mite incidence is between very low to half that of their preferred low altitude, humid air environment. I've always been more susceptible than most to upper respiratory infections. I'm looking into places where I could live with fewer to no dust mites.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

dancebert said:


> Because if I said 1000m, people would reply with towns at 900m+. Thanks for the info about Sierra de Guadarrama.
> 
> Decades ago I learned I was allergic to dust mites. Last year I learned they don't live above 1500m. At around 1000m plus dry air, dust mite incidence is between very low to half that of their preferred low altitude, humid air environment. I've always been more susceptible than most to upper respiratory infections. I'm looking into places where I could live with fewer to no dust mites.


Now that is much more informative. You do realise that American dust mites (Dermatophagoides farinae) and European dust mites (Dermatophagoides pteronyssinus) are two different species. Both survive in all climates even at high altitudes.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

dancebert said:


> Born and raised in a Southern California beach town, I went to grad school in Illinois for 3 years. First year there was the coldest in 100 years. It was no big deal because I brought my mountaineering outerwear. Stylish? No. Warm? Yes.
> 
> IMHO bl**dy freezing doesn't start until 0 degrees F (-17 C). Segovia's average low temps are just above 0 C, Cuenca's lowest average low is -3 C, according to one source.


Yes a friend of mine once told me that there's no such thing as bad weather - it's just people being badly prepared for the weather. But even so, I've been in a dry -20ºc in Canada and a wet -5ºc in central Spain with a stiff breeze blowing in off the mountains and I know which felt colder.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Chopera said:


> Yes a friend of mine once told me that there's no such thing as bad weather - it's just people being badly prepared for the weather. But even so, I've been in a dry -20ºc in Canada and a wet -5ºc in central Spain with a stiff breeze blowing in off the mountains and I know which felt colder.


This is very true. I am from New England and -3 in northern Spain is worse than -20 back home!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

> Originally Posted by *dancebert*
> _Born and raised in a Southern California beach town, I went to grad school in Illinois for 3 years. First year there was the coldest in 100 years. It was no big deal because I brought my mountaineering outerwear. Stylish? No. Warm? Yes.
> 
> IMHO bl**dy freezing doesn't start until 0 degrees F (-17 C). Segovia's average low temps are just above 0 C, Cuenca's lowest average low is -3 C, according to one source._





Chopera said:


> Yes a friend of mine once told me that there's no such thing as bad weather - it's just people being badly prepared for the weather. But even so, I've been in a dry -20ºc in Canada and a wet -5ºc in central Spain with a stiff breeze blowing in off the mountains and I know which felt colder.





elenetxu said:


> This is very true. I am from New England and -3 in northern Spain is worse than -20 back home!


I thought the OP might say something like this, but I agree with Chopera and elenetxu. You have to count in the humididty and wind chill factor.
Likewise, 25º in the UK feels very hot to me whereas in Madrid I'm quite happy to go around my daily routine in up to 35º.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

I've only ever had frostbite twice in my life. First was in UK in 1963 when the temperature never went above freezing from Boxing Day (26.12.62) right through to 13th March 1963. The second time was here, in Spain, January 2009.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> I've only ever had frostbite twice in my life. First was in UK in 1963 when the temperature never went above freezing from Boxing Day (26.12.62) right through to 13th March 1963. The second time was here, in Spain, January 2009.


I've heard about "The winter of '63", apparently my brother built an igloo in the garden, but I didn't realise it was that bad!!!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I've heard about "The winter of '63", apparently my brother built an igloo in the garden, but I didn't realise it was that bad!!!


Yes and we lived in Essex not the north of Scotland. 1947 was pretty bad as well (12 foot snow drifts) but didn't last as long.

Take a look on Youtube and put in the search line "winter of 1963"


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Yes and we lived in Essex not the north of Scotland. 1947 was pretty bad as well (12 foot snow drifts) but didn't last as long.
> 
> Take a look on Youtube and put in the search line "winter of 1963"


Will do!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Will do!


The only plus as far as I was concerned about 1947 was I didn't have to go to school for a few days. I can still picture in my mind Claude Rayner (an engine driver who not only couldn't get to work but couldn't have driven any trains because the line was blocked) trudging off in the snow towards the village (we lived in an aldea about a half mile from the village edge) to get bread for everyone in the aldea. Such was the nature of people who lived in villages in those days, so I was delighted to find similar here in Spain.


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## dancebert (Jun 4, 2015)

baldilocks said:


> Now that is much more informative.


None of it useful to y'all.



baldilocks said:


> You do realise that American dust mites (Dermatophagoides farinae) and European dust mites (Dermatophagoides pteronyssinus) are two different species. Both survive in all climates even at high altitudes.


Do you realize the species (there are 3) doesn't matter to me? Or that when the incidence of dust mites drops low enough there is no noticeable reaction? 



Pesky Wesky said:


> I thought the OP might say something like this, but I agree with Chopera and elenetxu. You have to count in the humididty and wind chill factor.


One would have to be some combination of unobservant, inexperienced, ignorant, or never taken a physics class not to know the about the effects of wind chill or humidity on staying warm in the cold. On expat forums your type of comment is standard fare, but if you told me that in person I'd consider it a personal attack.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

> *dancebert* One would have to be some combination of unobservant, inexperienced, ignorant, or never taken a physics class not to know the about the effects of wind chill or humidity on staying warm in the cold. On expat forums your type of comment is standard fare, but if you told me that in person I'd consider it a personal attack.


I suppose you also realise then how rude and ungrateful you've been since you started this thread. I'm glad I live at only 880m so I probably won't be meeting you!
Nevertheless I wish you good luck in finding what you want out of Spain. As I said before, make sure you've got your visa worked out.
Goodbye


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I suppose you also realise then how rude and ungrateful you've been since you started this thread. I'm glad I live at only 880m so I probably won't be meeting you!
> Nevertheless I wish you good luck in finding what you want out of Spain. As I said before, make sure you've got your visa worked out.
> Goodbye


I agree with every word of this post.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

In view of his attitude, I guess he won't be coming to Spain. I think that Kathmandu might meet his criteria and suggest he transfers his posts to a forum covering that part of the world.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

dancebert said:


> Do you realize the species (there are 3) doesn't matter to me? Or that when the incidence of dust mites drops low enough there is no noticeable reaction?


It doesn't matter how many species there are, I was merely pointing out that between the US and Europe there is a difference and your allergy might only be to the American species. However, since you are the expert on all things relating to dust mites, why do you ask us for information that you could quite easily get from the internet?




dancebert said:


> One would have to be some combination of unobservant, inexperienced, ignorant, or never taken a physics class not to know the about the effects of wind chill or humidity on staying warm in the cold. On expat forums your type of comment is standard fare, but if you told me that in person I'd consider it a personal attack.


The average American knows very little about what "wind chill" really is, being told that the "Wind-chill is xx degrees" when what they are being given is the apparent temperature after taking into account, the "wind chill factor", something totally different.

Your behavior is that which is typically displayed by an "internet troll".


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## dancebert (Jun 4, 2015)

brocher said:


> I agree with every word of this post.


Both on and off the net it is so predictable that those who make personal attacks respond to being called on their behavior by doubling down with more personal attacks.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I suppose you also realise then how rude and ungrateful you've been since you started this thread. I'm glad I live at only 880m so I probably won't be meeting you!
> Nevertheless I wish you good luck in finding what you want out of Spain. As I said before, make sure you've got your visa worked out.
> Goodbye


If he's so clever it's a wonder he can't find what he wants without resorting to asking an internet forum for help. I'd suggest an uninhabited speck of an island somewhere but he could probably start a row in an empty room.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

dancebert said:


> Both on and off the net it is so predictable that those who make personal attacks respond to being called on their behavior by doubling down with more personal attacks.


Nobody, other than you, has made any personal attacks. You come across as a rude ignorant person. Now if that does not describe you, then there is something wrong with how you address other people and the attitude you project. I have better things to do so I'm quitting this thread since it is time it was closed.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

dancebert said:


> Both on and off the net it is so predictable that those who make personal attacks respond to being called on their behavior by doubling down with more personal attacks.


Ermm, excuse me, when did I attack you initially, to allow me to have "doubled down" with another personal attack?


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