# Language visa



## worldofecofin

How does visa extension by taking up a language course at the Volkshochschule work? And how much time does it take? My current student visa is about to expire and I´m trying very hard to learn German and find a job here. As such, I think it´s best to take up a language course, and at the same time get to stay in the country, learn the language and also seek employment. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!


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## ALKB

worldofecofin said:


> How does visa extension by taking up a language course at the Volkshochschule work? And how much time does it take? My current student visa is about to expire and I´m trying very hard to learn German and find a job here. As such, I think it´s best to take up a language course, and at the same time get to stay in the country, learn the language and also seek employment. Any advice would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


What's your current student visa for?

University? If so, have you completed a degree in Germany?

For a residence permit, a language course has to be full time = daily lessons, at least 18 hours per week. Volkshochschule does offer these kinds of courses but I am not sure whether a VHS course qualifies for a permit.

Many VHS require a personal interview/placement test for intensive language courses. The people there might be able to help you/have experience with the local Ausländerbehörde.

You need sufficient funds to finance the duration of your stay, a health insurance and are not allowed to work on a language course permit.

https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/324289/en/


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## worldofecofin

ALKB said:


> What's your current student visa for?
> 
> University? If so, have you completed a degree in Germany?
> 
> For a residence permit, a language course has to be full time = daily lessons, at least 18 hours per week. Volkshochschule does offer these kinds of courses but I am not sure whether a VHS course qualifies for a permit.
> 
> Many VHS require a personal interview/placement test for intensive language courses. The people there might be able to help you/have experience with the local Ausländerbehörde.
> 
> You need sufficient funds to finance the duration of your stay, a health insurance and are not allowed to work on a language course permit.



Hey, thanks a lot for your reply.

I just came here for a semester abroad. I haven´t completed a degree in Germany, but from another EU country. 

I read somewhere else that the language course should be at least 20 hours per week. You just mentioned 18. Is there an official site, where I could confirm the requirements? 

My dilemma with regards to the time per week is that VHS courses have courses with an option of 5 times a day for 3 hours each. That makes it 15. I don´t know if breaks are included to make the figure 18-20 hours. You mentioned that VHS does offer such kind of courses that meet the no. of hours requirement. Could you please shed some light on that? 

I visited the VHS yesterday and also did a placement test and interview. However, during the interview I did not want them to feel that I'm enrolling for a course just to extend my visa, which isn´t the case. I really wish to improve my German and find employment here. The extended visa and the language course will just help me get there and I see that as my best option right now. Please let me know what you think.

Thanks again!


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## ALKB

worldofecofin said:


> Hey, thanks a lot for your reply.
> 
> I just came here for a semester abroad. I haven´t completed a degree in Germany, but from another EU country.
> 
> I read somewhere else that the language course should be at least 20 hours per week. You just mentioned 18. Is there an official site, where I could confirm the requirements?
> 
> My dilemma with regards to the time per week is that VHS courses have courses with an option of 5 times a day for 3 hours each. That makes it 15. I don´t know if breaks are included to make the figure 18-20 hours. You mentioned that VHS does offer such kind of courses that meet the no. of hours requirement. Could you please shed some light on that?
> 
> I visited the VHS yesterday and also did a placement test and interview. However, during the interview I did not want them to feel that I'm enrolling for a course just to extend my visa, which isn´t the case. I really wish to improve my German and find employment here. The extended visa and the language course will just help me get there and I see that as my best option right now. Please let me know what you think.
> 
> Thanks again!



The link in my first post is an official link to the Ausländerbehörde of Berlin. Requirements should be the same across Germany.

I know that VHS Berlin offers intensive language courses with 18 hours or more (at least they did last year) but as I said before, I do not know whether VHS courses in general are recognised for visa purposes, as they are heavily subsidised by the state. I can't speak for all of the VHS as demand varies greatly by region and that is reflected in what the VHS offer.

You might have to look into private language schools.

Good luck!


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## worldofecofin

ALKB said:


> The link in my first post is an official link to the Ausländerbehörde of Berlin. Requirements should be the same across Germany.
> 
> I know that VHS Berlin offers intensive language courses with 18 hours or more (at least they did last year) but as I said before, I do not know whether VHS courses in general are recognised for visa purposes, as they are heavily subsidised by the state. I can't speak for all of the VHS as demand varies greatly by region and that is reflected in what the VHS offer.
> 
> You might have to look into private language schools.
> 
> Good luck!


Thanks a lot again for the useful information. I missed the link in your previous message, but went through it now. 

Yes, I know they are subsidized, but the course fees is not so different as compared to private school. It´s 294 euros per month in Frankfurt, and most private schools are just around 300 to 320. In fact, private schools offer heavy discounts for advance payments of 3 months or more. I wonder why the cost at the VHS is not much lower. Any idea if I could enrol myself as a jobseeker with the some government entity, to get a letter of unemployment and then get the 50% discount that VHS offers for unemployed jobseekers? Or, does this only apply to German residents and nationals?

If I take a course for just 2 months, would this mean that I would get a visa extension for only 2 months or would I get it for the one year that is mentioned in the link that you posted above? Ideally, I would like to take advanced courses a few months later, after taking intermediate German courses and practising the language over a few months by living in the country. However, the VHS doesn´t offer courses registration for courses beyond a few months (definitely less than 6 months). As such, there is no way to register for courses up until a year, if I wish to get a visa for a year.

Also, if I indicate that I wish to study here after my language courses, would that make a difference to the time period of the visa or the nature of the visa? 

A final question regarding proof of sufficient funds. For my student visa, I had a German resident submit a letter of sponsorship, because I didn´t want to block 7000 euros in a blocked account. Would the same work in this case as well? Because, the link that you posted doesn´t clearly state sponsorship by a German resident, which was the case for the student visa. It just mentions third party in passing. Just wondering if you have any idea on this. Also, in case the letter works, do I have to create a new letter (less than three months?) or would the one dating back to Nov 2013 hold?

I understand those are many questions, and I highly appreciate your advice and help. I wouldn't have much questions after this post. Thanks again.


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## ALKB

worldofecofin said:


> Thanks a lot again for the useful information. I missed the link in your previous message, but went through it now.
> 
> Yes, I know they are subsidized, but the course fees is not so different as compared to private school. It´s 294 euros per month in Frankfurt, and most private schools are just around 300 to 320. In fact, private schools offer heavy discounts for advance payments of 3 months or more. I wonder why the cost at the VHS is not much lower. Any idea if I could enrol myself as a jobseeker with the some government entity, to get a letter of unemployment and then get the 50% discount that VHS offers for unemployed jobseekers? Or, does this only apply to German residents and nationals?
> 
> If I take a course for just 2 months, would this mean that I would get a visa extension for only 2 months or would I get it for the one year that is mentioned in the link that you posted above? Ideally, I would like to take advanced courses a few months later, after taking intermediate German courses and practising the language over a few months by living in the country. However, the VHS doesn´t offer courses registration for courses beyond a few months (definitely less than 6 months). As such, there is no way to register for courses up until a year, if I wish to get a visa for a year.
> 
> Also, if I indicate that I wish to study here after my language courses, would that make a difference to the time period of the visa or the nature of the visa?
> 
> A final question regarding proof of sufficient funds. For my student visa, I had a German resident submit a letter of sponsorship, because I didn´t want to block 7000 euros in a blocked account. Would the same work in this case as well? Because, the link that you posted doesn´t clearly state sponsorship by a German resident, which was the case for the student visa. It just mentions third party in passing. Just wondering if you have any idea on this. Also, in case the letter works, do I have to create a new letter (less than three months?) or would the one dating back to Nov 2013 hold?
> 
> I understand those are many questions, and I highly appreciate your advice and help. I wouldn't have much questions after this post. Thanks again.


Sorry about the late reply - life is hectic at the moment.

Wow, VHS in Frankfurt is more expensive than in Berlin it seems.

Anyhow, if private language schools offer the same at a comparable price I would go with the private language school to be on the safe side.

You can't register as unemployed because you are not a resident (with an unrestricted work permit) and as such not available to the general job market - you are on a student visa, a student is not unemployed. 

The language course permit is not for preparing to enter university studies. It specifically says so. I am not sure which category this would fall into - Studienkolleg counts as university and participants get a student visa.

If you have a specific course in mind I'd go to the student advisory of that university.

The turn of phrase "up to a maximum of one year" suggests that language course permits are only granted for the duration of the (paid) course.

A Verpflichtungserklärung should work fine instead of a blocked account but it can only be used once - when the visa you used it for expires you will need a new one. Do you still have the one from November 2013? Usually the Embassy/the authorities retain the original in your file.


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## worldofecofin

ALKB said:


> Sorry about the late reply - life is hectic at the moment.
> 
> No worries about the delay, and sincere thanks for your reply again.
> 
> Wow, VHS in Frankfurt is more expensive than in Berlin it seems.
> 
> Anyhow, if private language schools offer the same at a comparable price I would go with the private language school to be on the safe side.
> 
> You can't register as unemployed because you are not a resident (with an unrestricted work permit) and as such not available to the general job market - you are on a student visa, a student is not unemployed.
> 
> The language course permit is not for preparing to enter university studies. It specifically says so. I am not sure which category this would fall into - Studienkolleg counts as university and participants get a student visa.
> 
> If you have a specific course in mind I'd go to the student advisory of that university.
> 
> The turn of phrase "up to a maximum of one year" suggests that language course permits are only granted for the duration of the (paid) course.
> 
> A Verpflichtungserklärung should work fine instead of a blocked account but it can only be used once - when the visa you used it for expires you will need a new one. Do you still have the one from November 2013? Usually the Embassy/the authorities retain the original in your file.


What´s the cost at the VHS in Berlin? Also, do you have any recommendations for private language schools in Frankfurt?

Yes, I still have the original sponsorship letter. They wanted duplicates of everything. 

I know someone who just mentioned that he wanted to study here after 2 years, and received a visa for 9 months after paying the fees for the language course for just 3 months. Do you have any idea how he would have done that?


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## worldofecofin

As a sidenote, I´ve looked up Studienkollegs. It´s meant for people who have are seeking University Enrollment, but still don't have a comparable Abitur level. I have completed my Master, and I´m not looking to work and simultaneously complete my PhD.


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## ALKB

worldofecofin said:


> What´s the cost at the VHS in Berlin? Also, do you have any recommendations for private language schools in Frankfurt?
> 
> Yes, I still have the original sponsorship letter. They wanted duplicates of everything.
> 
> I know someone who just mentioned that he wanted to study here after 2 years, and received a visa for 9 months after paying the fees for the language course for just 3 months. Do you have any idea how he would have done that?


Late last year it was something like € 150 for six weeks.

Sorry, I have no idea what he might or might not have done. Could be anything including a sympathetic case worker.


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## ALKB

worldofecofin said:


> As a sidenote, I´ve looked up Studienkollegs. It´s meant for people who have are seeking University Enrollment, but still don't have a comparable Abitur level. I have completed my Master, and I´m not looking to work and simultaneously complete my PhD.


This was just an example as Studienkollegs also provide intensive language training in course-specific language.

So, if you have completed your Master and are not looking for a PhD, what's the language course permit for?

You can't work on that permit and will probably struggle to find a sponsor.

It's a complicated situation but just a thought: you have completed a degree in another EU country, you said. How about returning to that country and applying for a jobseeker visa from there? I don't think it can be done in-country...


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## worldofecofin

ALKB said:


> Late last year it was something like € 150 for six weeks.
> 
> Sorry, I have no idea what he might or might not have done. Could be anything including a sympathetic case worker.


150 for six weeks is dirt cheap. 

What's a sympathetic case worker? I don't get it. He applied for the visa in his country (third world country), stating that he will first go there and learn German for 2 years and then apply to universities. He had a rejection from a German university as proof that he didn't meet the language skills.


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## worldofecofin

ALKB said:


> This was just an example as Studienkollegs also provide intensive language training in course-specific language.
> 
> So, if you have completed your Master and are not looking for a PhD, what's the language course permit for?
> 
> You can't work on that permit and will probably struggle to find a sponsor.
> 
> It's a complicated situation but just a thought: you have completed a degree in another EU country, you said. How about returning to that country and applying for a jobseeker visa from there? I don't think it can be done in-country...


Well, I am first of all looking for a job, and given the high emphasis on PhDs here in Germany, I'm deciding to get a PhD simultaneously too. The language course permit is to help me stay here, learn the language and then also find a job and check with universities regarding their PhD programs. 

I don't intend to work on the language visa and will not. However, I do not understand why you mentioned that I will struggle to find a sponsor? Do you mean I will struggle to find someone who is willing to hire me full-time and sponsor my work permit?


The EU country in which I completed my degree is one of the worst-performing economies right now. They don't offer a job seeker visa, and they do not have any permit extension for students who completed a degree. So, I had to leave after I completed my degree. 


Could it possible for me to get a jobseeker visa for Germany from the Ausländebehörde here in Frankfurt or do I have to return to my home country to get that done? Even if I can get this done, it´s great. 6 months is sufficient time for me to learn the language and decide my future plans.


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## ALKB

worldofecofin said:


> 150 for six weeks is dirt cheap.
> 
> What's a sympathetic case worker? I don't get it. He applied for the visa in his country (third world country), stating that he will first go there and learn German for 2 years and then apply to universities. He had a rejection from a German university as proof that he didn't meet the language skills.


I can hardly comment on a case I know nothing about. Until now I didn't know he applied from his home country. If he applied at his local German Embassy, he should not have received a 9-month visa at all. He should have received a 90-day visa which would then be converted into a residence permit at his local Ausländerbehörde.


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## worldofecofin

ALKB said:


> I can hardly comment on a case I know nothing about. Until now I didn't know he applied from his home country. If he applied at his local German Embassy, he should not have received a 9-month visa at all. He should have received a 90-day visa which would then be converted into a residence permit at his local Ausländerbehörde.



Yes, that´s the case...everyone gets a 3 month visa, just like he did. Then, he came here, enrolled for a language course and received a visa extension of 9 months. (That could be 6 months in addition to the initial 3 months, or 9 months addition to the 3 months, making it a year. In either case, I know that he did not pay tuition fee for 6-9 months. That brings me to my earlier question. How did he get an extension for more than the duration of the course, and is it even possible. If yes, how?

this whole visa thing is such a pain. I hope to just get over it as soon as I can and focus on my career and the real deal, not all this paper work.


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## ALKB

worldofecofin said:


> Yes, that´s the case...everyone gets a 3 month visa, just like he did. Then, he came here, enrolled for a language course and received a visa extension of 9 months. (That could be 6 months in addition to the initial 3 months, or 9 months addition to the 3 months, making it a year. In either case, I know that he did not pay tuition fee for 6-9 months. That brings me to my earlier question. How did he get an extension for more than the duration of the course, and is it even possible. If yes, how?
> 
> this whole visa thing is such a pain. I hope to just get over it as soon as I can and focus on my career and the real deal, not all this paper work.


I think you should ask him! Have you actually seen his permit?

Maybe he enrolled in a pathway to university course?

Those get student permits, too, not language course permits. but they are usually 30 lessons/week and more expensive.


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## worldofecofin

ALKB said:


> I think you should ask him! Have you actually seen his permit?
> 
> Maybe he enrolled in a pathway to university course?
> 
> Those get student permits, too, not language course permits. but they are usually 30 lessons/week and more expensive.



What´s a pathway to a university course? Similar to StudienKollegs? 

I didn't ask to see his permit, because I don't know him that well. However, he did confirm that he is allowed to work 120 full days a year, which is what a student visa allows.


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## worldofecofin

worldofecofin said:


> Well, I am first of all looking for a job, and given the high emphasis on PhDs here in Germany, I'm deciding to get a PhD simultaneously too. The language course permit is to help me stay here, learn the language and then also find a job and check with universities regarding their PhD programs.
> 
> I don't intend to work on the language visa and will not. However, I do not understand why you mentioned that I will struggle to find a sponsor? Do you mean I will struggle to find someone who is willing to hire me full-time and sponsor my work permit?
> 
> 
> The EU country in which I completed my degree is one of the worst-performing economies right now. They don't offer a job seeker visa, and they do not have any permit extension for students who completed a degree. So, I had to leave after I completed my degree.
> 
> 
> Could it possible for me to get a jobseeker visa for Germany from the Ausländebehörde here in Frankfurt or do I have to return to my home country to get that done? Even if I can get this done, it´s great. 6 months is sufficient time for me to learn the language and decide my future plans.


I think you missed one of my post. I'd like to request your thoughts on this.


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## ALKB

worldofecofin said:


> What´s a pathway to a university course? Similar to StudienKollegs?
> 
> I didn't ask to see his permit, because I don't know him that well. However, he did confirm that he is allowed to work 120 full days a year, which is what a student visa allows.


These are two examples of these courses:

TestDaF in Berlin - TestDaF courses and exams in Berlin - Goethe exams in Berlin

University Pathway courses - EURASIA Institute Berlin

It sounds like your friend has a student permit, not a language course permit.


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## ALKB

worldofecofin said:


> Well, I am first of all looking for a job, and given the high emphasis on PhDs here in Germany, I'm deciding to get a PhD simultaneously too. The language course permit is to help me stay here, learn the language and then also find a job and check with universities regarding their PhD programs.
> 
> I don't intend to work on the language visa and will not. However, I do not understand why you mentioned that I will struggle to find a sponsor? Do you mean I will struggle to find someone who is willing to hire me full-time and sponsor my work permit?
> 
> 
> The EU country in which I completed my degree is one of the worst-performing economies right now. They don't offer a job seeker visa, and they do not have any permit extension for students who completed a degree. So, I had to leave after I completed my degree.
> 
> 
> Could it possible for me to get a jobseeker visa for Germany from the Ausländebehörde here in Frankfurt or do I have to return to my home country to get that done? Even if I can get this done, it´s great. 6 months is sufficient time for me to learn the language and decide my future plans.



Sponsoring a non-EEA national for a work permit is a major headache and takes time, often months. Few employers want to get involved in that.

I didn't suggest to apply for a jobseeker visa for that other EU country but FROM the other EU country, assuming you still have a valid permit there.

At least one forum member completed his degree in the UK and applied from there for his German jobsseker visa, which is basically a pre-approval to make switching to a work permit within Germany easy and painless. 

You could of course also return to your home country and apply from there - but note that jobseeker visa seem to be geared towards IT and engineering. Would that apply to you?


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## worldofecofin

ALKB said:


> These are two examples of these courses:
> 
> TestDaF in Berlin - TestDaF courses and exams in Berlin - Goethe exams in Berlin
> 
> University Pathway courses - EURASIA Institute Berlin
> 
> It sounds like your friend has a student permit, not a language course permit.


Thanks for the links. They are helpful. I will go through them today.

Yes, I guess he does. And he told me quite the contrary --- that you can get a student visa too if you tell them that you plan to study in Germany at a university after the language course, because language visas cannot be converted to student visas as a rule (I´ve seen this written on many German embassy pages). In my case, I do plan to study here (do a PhD), so I was wondering whether this approach would apply to me.


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## worldofecofin

ALKB said:


> Sponsoring a non-EEA national for a work permit is a major headache and takes time, often months. Few employers want to get involved in that.
> 
> I didn't suggest to apply for a jobseeker visa for that other EU country but FROM the other EU country, assuming you still have a valid permit there.
> 
> At least one forum member completed his degree in the UK and applied from there for his German jobsseker visa, which is basically a pre-approval to make switching to a work permit within Germany easy and painless.
> 
> You could of course also return to your home country and apply from there - but note that jobseeker visa seem to be geared towards IT and engineering. Would that apply to you?


How long does it take between the application for a work permit and the final approval, assuming I receive an offer letter of employment and meet all the requirements?

I don't have a work permit for the other EU country any more. My last semester was here in Germany and I´m currently on a student visa here. The problem is if I return to my home country and reapply for a new visa, that would take another 2-3 months. My German student visa for one semester took that much time. As a result, I would just waste this much time being unemployed. Also, I don't need that much time to reach a fluent German level (until end of this year I mean). 

Background: I'm not into engineering. I´m into investments and I have a good experience of 1.5 years, with good educational qualifications. I believe that employers here would be interested in me, provided I can speak German. This is why i wish to stay here and learn German in the first place.


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## ALKB

worldofecofin said:


> How long does it take between the application for a work permit and the final approval, assuming I receive an offer letter of employment and meet all the requirements?
> 
> I don't have a work permit for the other EU country any more. My last semester was here in Germany and I´m currently on a student visa here. The problem is if I return to my home country and reapply for a new visa, that would take another 2-3 months. My German student visa for one semester took that much time. As a result, I would just waste this much time being unemployed. Also, I don't need that much time to reach a fluent German level (until end of this year I mean).
> 
> Background: I'm not into engineering. I´m into investments and I have a good experience of 1.5 years, with good educational qualifications. I believe that employers here would be interested in me, provided I can speak German. This is why i wish to stay here and learn German in the first place.


I don't know.

Finance is not on the shortage list.

Your prospective employer would have to do a resident labour market test, that takes 6 weeks and determines whether you can even start the work permit process.


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## worldofecofin

ALKB said:


> I don't know.
> 
> Finance is not on the shortage list.
> 
> Your prospective employer would have to do a resident labour market test, that takes 6 weeks and determines whether you can even start the work permit process.


This is not so great news. And, what about students who complete a degree in Germany? Do they still have to pass this sort of test?


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## ALKB

worldofecofin said:


> This is not so great news. And, what about students who complete a degree in Germany? Do they still have to pass this sort of test?


No, students who complete a degree in Germany can apply for a post study work permit (max. 18 months) and if they find a qualified job during this time, it can be converted into a regular work permit.


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## worldofecofin

ALKB said:


> No, students who complete a degree in Germany can apply for a post study work permit (max. 18 months) and if they find a qualified job during this time, it can be converted into a regular work permit.


So, then, a PhD route sounds like a good option, isn't it? I would end up with a degree sometime in the future, and thus be able to work. 

Do you have any idea on scholarships (apart from DAAD), application deadlines, etc. for PhD programs?


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## ALKB

worldofecofin said:


> So, then, a PhD route sounds like a good option, isn't it? I would end up with a degree sometime in the future, and thus be able to work.
> 
> Do you have any idea on scholarships (apart from DAAD), application deadlines, etc. for PhD programs?


Sorry, no idea. 

Germany is not big on scholarships, as most programmes are tuition-free and BaFög is not available to international students (or PhD students in general, as far as I know).

Application deadlines you should find on the DAAD web site in the individual programme information.


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## worldofecofin

ALKB said:


> Sorry, no idea.
> 
> Germany is not big on scholarships, as most programmes are tuition-free and BaFög is not available to international students (or PhD students in general, as far as I know).
> 
> Application deadlines you should find on the DAAD web site in the individual programme information.


Great. Thank you so much for your help.


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