# What is your opinion about bull fight?



## patsy (May 8, 2009)

The tradition, as it is practiced today, involves professional toreros (toureiros in Portuguese; also referred to as toreadors in English), who execute various formal moves in order to subdue the bull itself. Such maneuvers are performed at close range, and have in some cases resulted in injury or even death of the performer. The bullfight usually concludes with the death of the bull by a sword thrust. In Portugal the finale consists of a tradition called the pega, where men (forcados) try to grab and hold the bull by its horns when it runs at them. Forcados are dressed in a traditional costume of damask or velvet, with long knit hats as worn by the campinos (bull headers) from Ribatejo.


----------



## ofilha (Mar 22, 2009)

patsy said:


> The tradition, as it is practiced today, involves professional toreros (toureiros in Portuguese; also referred to as toreadors in English), who execute various formal moves in order to subdue the bull itself. Such maneuvers are performed at close range, and have in some cases resulted in injury or even death of the performer. The bullfight usually concludes with the death of the bull by a sword thrust. In Portugal the finale consists of a tradition called the pega, where men (forcados) try to grab and hold the bull by its horns when it runs at them. Forcados are dressed in a traditional costume of damask or velvet, with long knit hats as worn by the campinos (bull headers) from Ribatejo.


I was born in Portugal and left when i was seventeen. I always considered bull fighting torture to the animals. In addition, just because something is traditional does not make it right. I think it's a primitive tradition that shows nothing about bravery but lots about cruelty. If they did not torture the animal, before and during the bullfight, then i might support it. But as is, it is a horrendous practice for a "civilized" country. You asked!


----------



## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

I have no sympathy for the bullfighters who get injured or killed. 
They chose to be in the ring with a bull who unlike them was not given the option to say no thanks I dont want to get slaughtered for the entertainment of blood thirsty people.


----------



## ofilha (Mar 22, 2009)

Veronica said:


> I have no sympathy for the bullfighters who get injured or killed.
> They chose to be in the ring with a bull who unlike them was not given the option to say no thanks I dont want to get slaughtered for the entertainment of blood thirsty people.


Right on Veronica. To bullfight lovers, how would you like to be stabbed before you go to the ring, so you cannot fight as well, then get stabbed some more before someone sticks a sword in you. It is the most backward tradition that compares to Rome's gladiators. And for a civilized country to push that kind of atrocity on an animal is outrageous. I am surprised the EU has not done something about bull fighting.


----------



## mitz (Oct 21, 2008)

I don't like it either.
They don't actually kill the bull in the arena though do they, I assumed that after being tortured and exhausted, it was led away to be killed properly.


----------



## paramonte (Sep 9, 2007)

Bullfight=torture to the bull, horrendous should be forbidden, would not allow my son (7 yo) to see it, or I had a lot to explain him, and I am Portuguese

For the toureiros: leave the bull alone and get a decent life.


----------



## John999 (Jul 6, 2009)

*bull fight*

I don´t agree with your opinions. It is tradition and I can´t see how EU could ever get involved in matters like that. It is part of their culture and telling to the people of a foreign country, who receives us with open arms, that they are barbarians is a bit… One of the main rules of EU is to respect the individuality of each Country and their culture. Our opinion doesn´t matter, in the end of the day we are gests. The bullfight is above all about the demonstration of style, technique and courage by its participants. While there is usually no doubt about the outcome, the bull is not viewed as a sacrificial victim, it is instead seen by the audience as a worthy adversary, deserving of respect in its own right. Bulls learn fast and their capacity to do so should never be underestimated. Indeed, a bullfight may be viewed as a race against time for the matador, who must display his bullfighting skills before the animal learns what is going on and begins to thrust its horns at something other than the cape. A hapless matador may find himself being pelted with seat cushions as he makes his exit. Bullfighting is criticized by many people, including but not limited to activists, referring to it as a cruel or barbaric blood sport, in which the bull suffers severe stress and a slow, torturous death. A number of animal rights or animal welfare activist groups undertake anti-bullfighting actions in Spain and other countries. In Spanish, opposition to bullfighting is referred to as “antitaurina”. However, some commentators have called into question how much worse the welfare of the bull is across its life as compared to the lives and death of meat cattle in commercial farming. I can understand the love for the animal if you are vegetarian. 
John999


----------



## ofilha (Mar 22, 2009)

John999 said:


> I don´t agree with your opinions. It is tradition and I can´t see how EU could ever get involved in matters like that. It is part of their culture and telling to the people of a foreign country, who receives us with open arms, that they are barbarians is a bit… One of the main rules of EU is to respect the individuality of each Country and their culture. Our opinion doesn´t matter, in the end of the day we are gests. The bullfight is above all about the demonstration of style, technique and courage by its participants. While there is usually no doubt about the outcome, the bull is not viewed as a sacrificial victim, it is instead seen by the audience as a worthy adversary, deserving of respect in its own right. Bulls learn fast and their capacity to do so should never be underestimated. Indeed, a bullfight may be viewed as a race against time for the matador, who must display his bullfighting skills before the animal learns what is going on and begins to thrust its horns at something other than the cape. A hapless matador may find himself being pelted with seat cushions as he makes his exit. Bullfighting is criticized by many people, including but not limited to activists, referring to it as a cruel or barbaric blood sport, in which the bull suffers severe stress and a slow, torturous death. A number of animal rights or animal welfare activist groups undertake anti-bullfighting actions in Spain and other countries. In Spanish, opposition to bullfighting is referred to as “antitaurina”. However, some commentators have called into question how much worse the welfare of the bull is across its life as compared to the lives and death of meat cattle in commercial farming. I can understand the love for the animal if you are vegetarian.
> John999


My last post on this matter since the original post was a question and i don't want to berate people just becaus i disagree with them or they with me. But as i said, it used to be tradition to have slaves or kill babies at the altar. All the arguments posing as intellectual justifications of a bad tradition are just apologetics. And no matter how one cuts it, the bull is not better off on some farm, etc... I really would like to have the proponents put themselves in the bulls shoes and have some empathy for a sentient being. In Spain they love bullfighting but it does not make it right, in my opinion it makes it very bad. It's not art, it's not courange because after beating up the bull before it even gets to the arena the animal's real strenght is sapped from him and now all he wants is to be left alone. Spain and Portugal should abandon such an archaic and primitive "tradition".


----------



## John999 (Jul 6, 2009)

*bull fight*



ofilha said:


> My last post on this matter since the original post was a question and i don't want to berate people just becaus i disagree with them or they with me. But as i said, it used to be tradition to have slaves or kill babies at the altar. All the arguments posing as intellectual justifications of a bad tradition are just apologetics. And no matter how one cuts it, the bull is not better off on some farm, etc... I really would like to have the proponents put themselves in the bulls shoes and have some empathy for a sentient being. In Spain they love bullfighting but it does not make it right, in my opinion it makes it very bad. It's not art, it's not courange because after beating up the bull before it even gets to the arena the animal's real strenght is sapped from him and now all he wants is to be left alone. Spain and Portugal should abandon such an archaic and primitive "tradition".


What about France? South America? They do it to. I will never compare a human with another animal. I reserve the right to my opinion, but, I don’t condemn other cultures for what they believe. Will you tell an Arabian, Muslim leader to practice monogamy, in his country? Tell a Russian to stop drinking vodka? Tell the Chinese people to change their Christmas and New Year to the same of the rest of the “civilized World”? What about the Mormons? America, always at war somewhere, is causing worldwide recession. Dead penalty.
John999


----------



## Diane1 (May 26, 2009)

*bull fight*



John999 said:


> What about France? South America? They do it to. I will never compare a human with another animal. I reserve the right to my opinion, but, I don’t condemn other cultures for what they believe. Will you tell an Arabian, Muslim leader to practice monogamy, in his country? Tell a Russian to stop drinking vodka? Tell the Chinese people to change their Christmas and New Year to the same of the rest of the “civilized World”? What about the Mormons? America, always at war somewhere, is causing worldwide recession. Dead penalty.
> John999


Are Spanish or Portuguese john?


----------



## Diane1 (May 26, 2009)

*bull fight*



Diane1 said:


> Are Spanish or Portuguese john?


 I meant, are you Spanish or Portuguese john?


----------



## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

John999 said:


> I don´t agree with your opinions. It is tradition and I can´t see how EU could ever get involved in matters like that. It is part of their culture and telling to the people of a foreign country, who receives us with open arms, that they are barbarians is a bit… One of the main rules of EU is to respect the individuality of each Country and their culture. Our opinion doesn´t matter, in the end of the day we are gests. The bullfight is above all about the demonstration of style, technique and courage by its participants. While there is usually no doubt about the outcome, the bull is not viewed as a sacrificial victim, it is instead seen by the audience as a worthy adversary, deserving of respect in its own right. Bulls learn fast and their capacity to do so should never be underestimated. Indeed, a bullfight may be viewed as a race against time for the matador, who must display his bullfighting skills before the animal learns what is going on and begins to thrust its horns at something other than the cape. A hapless matador may find himself being pelted with seat cushions as he makes his exit. Bullfighting is criticized by many people, including but not limited to activists, referring to it as a cruel or barbaric blood sport, in which the bull suffers severe stress and a slow, torturous death. A number of animal rights or animal welfare activist groups undertake anti-bullfighting actions in Spain and other countries. In Spanish, opposition to bullfighting is referred to as “antitaurina”. However, some commentators have called into question how much worse the welfare of the bull is across its life as compared to the lives and death of meat cattle in commercial farming. I can understand the love for the animal if you are vegetarian.
> John999


It is tradition in certain Far Eastern countries to chop the top off a monkeys head while it is still alive and eat its brains while still raw raw and warm. Does that make it right?
Many countries have such "traditions" but that does not mean that the rest of the world has to turn a blind eye while our fellow humans maim and torture innocent creatures.


----------



## John999 (Jul 6, 2009)

*bull fight*



Veronica said:


> It is tradition in certain Far Eastern countries to chop the top off a monkeys head while it is still alive and eat its brains while still raw raw and warm. Does that make it right?
> Many countries have such "traditions" but that does not mean that the rest of the world has to turn a blind eye while our fellow humans maim and torture innocent creatures.


I have seen that in one of “INDIANA JONES” films. And I agree that is a bit… But when you say “the rest of the world”, sorry I have to laugh. The rest of the world fallowed the last Olympic games where they eat dogs, and the restaurants around the Olympic village was asked, by their own government, to avoid cooking and selling dog meat during the Olympics, around the areas where the games was going on. I have not seen the rest of the world saying, or you stop eating dogs or our country teams will not attend. Have you?? It seems that the rest of the world agrees with respecting the individual culture
John999


----------



## Jamesie (Sep 17, 2009)

I agree with John 999 on this one.
Although I disagree with the principle of bullfighting along with many other "cruel" sports or pastimes I respect the choice of cultures different from ours to indulge in a tradition which has gone on for many years.
My partner is Portuguese and loves to see bullfighting and we can never agree on this one so in the interest of domestic harmony we stay away from the subject !!

Lets try an easy one we can all agree on :
Who likes fox hunting ??


----------



## John999 (Jul 6, 2009)

Jamesie said:


> I agree with John 999 on this one.
> Although I disagree with the principle of bullfighting along with many other "cruel" sports or pastimes I respect the choice of cultures different from ours to indulge in a tradition which has gone on for many years.
> My partner is Portuguese and loves to see bullfighting and we can never agree on this one so in the interest of domestic harmony we stay away from the subject !!
> 
> ...


I never gave my opinion about the subject; I have only made a reminding about “local culture”. Fox hunting? 100 dogs, 1 fox! Hum. Royalty. I believe is finish, if you believe the media.
John999


----------



## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Any form of blood "sport"is totally abhorent to me. The animals suffer terror followed in many cases by agony in the name of "sport".
These monsters who partake in such activities are a disgrace to humankind.


----------



## John999 (Jul 6, 2009)

I have a new idea for a blood sport. Lets start hunting PM´S when they don´t fulfill their promises!! 
John999


----------



## Jamesie (Sep 17, 2009)

Hi John999
Like you (I think) I was just trying to make the point that we have to look deeper into these thing instead of just dismissing them as "cruel". They are part of a nations culture. I once was asked to go deer stalking in Scotland and was appalled at the idea of shooting a deer as I believed it was just a way of the rich venting their blood lust or getting their "kicks". It was not until I spoke to a gamekeeper that I understood that :
1, Deer are a big problem in the highlands that needs to be dealt with because they are breeding at such a rate that the species is killing itself through inbreeding and competition for food.
and
2. Stalking is the most humane way of dealing with the problem. The government introduced poisoning some years ago only to find they almost wiped out the red squirrel. The gamekeepers only shoot 7 year old bucks just before their 8th winter when they would die of starvation due to old age. This in turn meant only the younger bucks breed and make for stronger and fitter young. They never shoot young does or does with young.
Rightly or wrongly it gave me a whole new perspective of the process.
I don't say it's right but we need to look deeper into things that have gone on for centuries.

Enough of my waffle. Just grateful to be included in the conversation.


----------



## John999 (Jul 6, 2009)

That is exactly my point. We can´t see thing`s black and white. There are more gray areas than we think. Respecting other cultures gives us the right to be respected 
John999


----------



## Jamesie (Sep 17, 2009)

Spot on !!!


----------

