# Hoping to move to Spain with my partner and elderly parents



## dowellndoubtnot (Apr 6, 2013)

Hi everyone! New here, and have a bunch of questions, and any help would be very appreciated!!

For a few years now, my partner and I (mid 30s gay couple), have been thinking about moving to Spain with my elderly parents (69/70) from the US. Covid kind of put a halt to our serious planning just as it got started in early 2020, but we are now ready to start moving forward.

We have spent a good amount of time in Spain over the years, and are very strongly leaning towards Valencia, though still open to changing that. 

I'll give a little more about the details of our situation, along with questions along the way (i'll enumerate the questions so that hopefully it makes them easier to answer for anyone who would want to!)

-My partner

My partner, is an American citizen, but from what we understand, is technically also a German citizen (his mother who has passed was a German citizen that immigrated to the US, where my partner was born), but he has never acquired a German passport. There is a German consulate where we live, but they are not currently accepting first time passport applications due to Covid.

1) Once he obtains his German passport, is he able to move to Spain without any visa? And stay there as long as he wants?

2) Is he technically already considered a German citizen, and allowed to live in Spain already even without the German passport? If so, how could he go about doing that?

3) How would healthcare work for a German citizen living in Spain?

-Me

I am an American citizen. I would be applying for a visa for family members of an EU citizen (my partner). We are not married, but have been together for 9 years, and are happy to get married if its the only way/easiest way for me to get the visa and be able to stay in Spain.

From what I understand, that visa has several options that could work for me...a) spouse, b) couple registered in a public register established in an EU member state, or c) common law partner

4) Would us getting married before moving to spain/applying for my visa make the whole process significantly easier for me to acquire this visa?

5) I have read that civil unions/partnerships are quite common and useful for individuals in my position...that I can enter Spain as a tourist, register my civil partnership/union with my German citizen partner in a Spanish city, and acquire residency in Spain that way. Is this accurate?

6) How would healthcare work for the civil partner/spouse of a German citizen residing in Spain? Would there be any difference in this regard between a marriage/civil partnership?

-My parents

My parents are american citizens. They both have very healthy pensions, and would be applying for a retirement visa. 

7) If the applicants for a retirement visa meet the pension requirements (my parents easily do), is the retirement visa basically guaranteed to be approved?

8) Approximately how long does the process of applying for a retirement visa take?

9) How would healthcare work for US citizen senior citizens living in Spain on a retirement visa?

Thank you all so much for any information you could provide!! It would all be very appreciated!! And...

10) If there is anything that is commonly overlooked about any of our situations, or anything that you think might make more sense, or that we might be missing, or just any comment or helpful thought you may have for us, please share that as well!!!

Thanks so much!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Just a brief comment:
Your partner
I think he could only have acquired German citizenship if at the time of his birth his mother still had retained German citizenship. In the past Germany was quite strict about not allowing dual citizenship, and if she was naturalised as US citizen, she could have lost/surrendered German citizenship. 
A German as EU citizen has freedom of movement throughout EU including Spain.
To prove his German citizenship, he will require a valid German passport.
EU citizen doesn't automatically acquire state healthcare. He needs to be working and pay social security contributions, gets private medical insurance, or after a year, he can contribute to state healthcare by paying 60 euro/month (convenio especial).

You
If your partner is a German citizen (see above), you don't need a visa but can come over as short-term visitor and register as family member of EU citizen.
You will require either marriage or pareja de hecho (civil partnership) before starting your residency application. You should conclude either in the US, as two non-residents can neither marry nor enter into civil partnership in Spain. Your certificate must be translated and legalised, through the State Department with Hague Apostille.
Your healthcare is as above.

Your parents
If your partner can get German passport and you either marry or enter civil partnership, your parents can live in Spain as family members of EU citizen. They or either of you need to show sufficient financial means for your parents not to become burden on the state. The amount required is around 12,400 euro/year for your parents.


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## dowellndoubtnot (Apr 6, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Just a brief comment:
> Your partner
> I think he could only have acquired German citizenship if at the time of his birth his mother still had retained German citizenship. In the past Germany was quite strict about not allowing dual citizenship, and if she was naturalised as US citizen, she could have lost/surrendered German citizenship.
> A German as EU citizen has freedom of movement throughout EU including Spain.
> ...


Thanks so much! This is incredibly helpful!

Yes, my partners mother was indeed still a german citizen at the time of his birth, and in fact he has been told by the german consulate in the past that he qualifies, just has never gotten his passport before.

To clarify one of your answers, so it is not possible for me to travel to spain as a tourist and register a civil partnership with my german citizen partner, because he is not a spanish resident, correct? Would that mean that if/when my partner is considered a spanish resident I would be able to do it that way? And if that is the case, at what point exactly is an EU citizen from another country considered a spanish resident? 

And a couple follow up questions if you'd be so kind! 

Would I and my parents be able to work in Spain as family members of EU citizens?
Is there a minimum amount required to work/make and pay into social security contributions to be eligible for spanish government healthcare?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

It won't take long for your partner to register as resident in Spain. He will need an address, such as rental, and minimum income which is around 6,000 euro/year, but this will vary according to regions. Best to contact a local gestor (administrator) to facilitate application. Under Covid, allow a few weeks. While marrying/entering civil partnership in Spain is possible, everything will be done in Spanish so you will need interpreter/local help.
Once you get your residency certificates, you will be allowed to work, and if in work, your employer will make social security payment which entitles you to healthcare. Just be aware that unemployment is high, esp post-Covid, and it won't be at all easy to find legal work, especially if you don't speak fluent Spanish.


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## dowellndoubtnot (Apr 6, 2013)

Joppa said:


> It won't take long for your partner to register as resident in Spain. He will need an address, such as rental, and minimum income which is around 6,000 euro/year, but this will vary according to regions. Best to contact a local gestor (administrator) to facilitate application. Under Covid, allow a few weeks. While marrying/entering civil partnership in Spain is possible, everything will be done in Spanish so you will need interpreter/local help.
> Once you get your residency certificates, you will be allowed to work, and if in work, your employer will make social security payment which entitles you to healthcare. Just be aware that unemployment is high, esp post-Covid, and it won't be at all easy to find legal work, especially if you don't speak fluent Spanish.



I really appreciate all your help! Myself and my parents all speak fluent spanish, so that will help i hope! 

If we are self-employed, how would that work in terms of paying into social security? And is there a minimum amount you must make in that case to be entitled to healthcare?

Thank you again!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You need to set up as an autónomo and there is minimum social security payment to the government regardless of how much profit you make. It's set at around 286 euro/month. So if you want state healthcare, set aside that amount each month. Self-employment income tax is on top of that.


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Not sure in which part of America you are living but take a look at Common Questions and Issues


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

If you wanted to marry in spain, keep in mind this can take time too. For us it was 11 months from application to marriage. Above all that was because we wanted to marry in the ayuntamiento and that was the waiting time for the ceremony. The actual permission to marry, the application done at the registry, that took around 4 or 5 months from submission to the town hall receiving the marriage license.

To marry youll also need various documents including new copies of birth certificates (translated and apostilled) and certificates of non impediment. My husband didn't need any of that as hes spanish but i had to get it being foreign. The certificate of non impediment was applied for and issued by rhr British embassy in Madrid but check the process for the German and American authorities!

Also, be prepared for interviews to prove why you're getting married. This was not requested of me, probably due to the number of years living here and the fact i had been on the padron with my partner for years before marrying. I was also (at the time) from an EU country no clearly was not marrying for residency rights etc. 

But if you just arrive in Spain, and especially from outside the eu they may well require it, i know people who have been interviewed to prove they are really partners! Obviously thats no biggy but will probably be in Spanish!


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## dowellndoubtnot (Apr 6, 2013)

xicoalc said:


> If you wanted to marry in spain, keep in mind this can take time too. For us it was 11 months from application to marriage. Above all that was because we wanted to marry in the ayuntamiento and that was the waiting time for the ceremony. The actual permission to marry, the application done at the registry, that took around 4 or 5 months from submission to the town hall receiving the marriage license.
> 
> To marry youll also need various documents including new copies of birth certificates (translated and apostilled) and certificates of non impediment. My husband didn't need any of that as hes spanish but i had to get it being foreign. The certificate of non impediment was applied for and issued by rhr British embassy in Madrid but check the process for the German and American authorities!
> 
> ...



Thanks so much! This is definitely good to know. I had read some similar stories, which is why i've been learning towards a civil partnership, from the research I have done, it seems to be a simpler process!


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## dowellndoubtnot (Apr 6, 2013)

Hello! 

I have read lots of information about the amount which Spaniards pay on prescription drugs being capped to a certain amount per month based on their specific situation (age/income/chronic conditions/etc).

I am curious if these caps also apply to non-citizens residing in Spain that are using private insurance?

Thanks!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

No, but some private policies contribute towards medicines. Percentage differs.


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## dowellndoubtnot (Apr 6, 2013)

Joppa said:


> No, but some private policies contribute towards medicines. Percentage differs.


So is there no cap on the amount that a non citizen might have to pay on prescription medications? Or is there a cap on that in the private insurance policies themselves? (i understand some contribute different percentages, but i am curious if there is a cap)

Thanks!!


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## dowellndoubtnot (Apr 6, 2013)

Joppa said:


> No, but some private policies contribute towards medicines. Percentage differs.


And is this the case even if they are senior citizens/pensioners, but with a US pension? thanks!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

dowellndoubtnot said:


> And is this the case even if they are senior citizens/pensioners, but with a US pension? thanks!


Yes, it is. The subsidies towards the cost of prescription medicines only apply to those who have coverage under the Spanish public health system. Even if people pay into the public health system by way of the Convenio Especial, that doesn't include the cost of medications or give eligibility for the subsidies.


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## dowellndoubtnot (Apr 6, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> Yes, it is. The subsidies towards the cost of prescription medicines only apply to those who have coverage under the Spanish public health system. Even if people pay into the public health system by way of the Convenio Especial, that doesn't include the cost of medications or give eligibility for the subsidies.


Thanks. Would you happen to know if there are private insurance options that cap the cost of prescription drugs?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

dowellndoubtnot said:


> Thanks. Would you happen to know if there are private insurance options that cap the cost of prescription drugs?


I'm not aware of any, and when you think of how much some of them can cost (just within the last few days someone enquired here about an arthritis treatment which costs €600 per injection, and no insurance company is going to subsidise the cost of things like that) it is hardly surprising. I did see Sanitas advertising a policy recently that reimburses 50% of the cost of prescription medicines up to a maximum cost of €400 in one year (ie a policyholder would get up to €200 back from them) but that wouldn't help much if a very expensive treatment was needed.


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## dowellndoubtnot (Apr 6, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> I'm not aware of any, and when you think of how much some of them can cost (just within the last few days someone enquired here about an arthritis treatment which costs €600 per injection, and no insurance company is going to subsidise the cost of things like that) it is hardly surprising. I did see Sanitas advertising a policy recently that reimburses 50% of the cost of prescription medicines up to a maximum cost of €400 in one year (ie a policyholder would get up to €200 back from them) but that wouldn't help much if a very expensive treatment was needed.


Yes, thats what i am worried about!

One other question I do have is...from what I understand is pensions are taxed in Spain as general income correct? So if someone's US pension is taxed in spain, that still wouldn't count as 'paying in' to the system so that they could get public healthcare?


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

dowellndoubtnot said:


> Yes, thats what i am worried about!
> 
> One other question I do have is...from what I understand is pensions are taxed in Spain as general income correct? So if someone's US pension is taxed in spain, that still wouldn't count as 'paying in' to the system so that they could get public healthcare?


Might be wrong but tax is just tax. Doesn't give you any direct benefit at all.

To get healthcare in Spain, you need either 

To be working (your employer will then pay your contribution)
To be self employed (autonomo) and then you pay 
To have full private healthcare with no copay or exceptions (when applying for residency) you pay
To pay voluntary contributions into the Convenio Especial which gives you healthcare from the public system. Again you pay.

May be wrong but someone will come along in a minute an correct me if I am.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

dowellndoubtnot said:


> Yes, thats what i am worried about!
> 
> One other question I do have is...from what I understand is pensions are taxed in Spain as general income correct? So if someone's US pension is taxed in spain, that still wouldn't count as 'paying in' to the system so that they could get public healthcare?


Paying social security contributions in Spain is what entitles people to public healthcare coverage (or, as in the case of UK pensioners who were resident in Spain before 31 December 2020, having the UK Government fund their healthcare, or paying into the system via the Convenio Especial). Paying income tax on pensions would not, I am afraid, give that entitlement.

If your parents are taking prescription medicines, presumably that means they have pre-existing health conditions which would need to be declared to any Spanish health insurance company? If so, you would need to check carefully if a company would be prepared to cover those conditions or would exclude them.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

If there is a pre existing condition, I doubt any private insurer would take it on. They may offer cover but with an exclusión. They certainly wouldn't take on a guaranteed bill for medication if the condition is pre existing. 

Any insurer that covers drugs will hav a strict limit which will be a small percentage of abual premium. They are businesses after all. 

The only way to get a cap on what you spend or a guaranteed ongoing percentage covered is through the social security but as you say, that comes from ss contribuciones, not from income tax.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

xicoalc said:


> If there is a pre existing condition, I doubt any private insurer would take it on. They may offer cover but with an exclusión. They certainly wouldn't take on a guaranteed bill for medication if the condition is pre existing.
> 
> Any insurer that covers drugs will hav a strict limit which will be a small percentage of abual premium. They are businesses after all.
> 
> The only way to get a cap on what you spend or a guaranteed ongoing percentage covered is through the social security but as you say, that comes from ss contribuciones, not from income tax.


Will second the above. My healthcare policy only covers drugs when prescribed at or during any hospital stay. On going medication is not covered. 
I can have an 'excess' placed on the policy which was going to add somewhere around €800 to the policy and it would not cover any cancer or long term illness (just stuff to help recover after an accident or minor surgery)


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## dowellndoubtnot (Apr 6, 2013)

Thanks everyone!

Hm, ok. That presents a bit of a problem in terms of my parents, but maybe there is ways around it. If one of them were to be self-employed, and pay into spanish social security, would that then allow both of them (they are married) to use the Spanish public heatlh system? Or only one?


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

That won't work as to come to Spain and work they will need a work visa, they can't come on a non lucrative visa then decide to become autonomo.

I'm sorry but I think you're going to have to face up to the reality that there is no practical way for aged non economically active non EU citizens to come to Spain and avoid paying for their own healthcare and medicines.


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## dowellndoubtnot (Apr 6, 2013)

MataMata said:


> That won't work as to come to Spain and work they will need a work visa, they can't come on a non lucrative visa then decide to become autonomo.
> 
> I'm sorry but I think you're going to have to face up to the reality that there is no practical way for aged non economically active non EU citizens to come to Spain and avoid paying for their own healthcare and medicines.


From what I understand, they won't need a non-lucrative visa, because they can become as family members of an EU citizen?


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## dowellndoubtnot (Apr 6, 2013)

Joppa said:


> You need to set up as an autónomo and there is minimum social security payment to the government regardless of how much profit you make. It's set at around 286 euro/month. So if you want state healthcare, set aside that amount each month. Self-employment income tax is on top of that.


Thanks! Would this provide access to the state healthcare for only the individual that is an autonomo and paying the social security payment, or their spouse as well?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

dowellndoubtnot said:


> From what I understand, they won't need a non-lucrative visa, because they can become as family members of an EU citizen?


Who is the EU citizen in this case? US citizen isn't a EU citizen and UK citizen, since 1st January 2021 is no longer.


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## dowellndoubtnot (Apr 6, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Who is the EU citizen in this case? US citizen isn't a EU citizen and UK citizen, since 1st January 2021 is no longer.


My partner or 9 years, who will be either my husband or civil partner at the time that my parents would become residents in Spain.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

dowellndoubtnot said:


> Thanks! Would this provide access to the state healthcare for only the individual that is an autonomo and paying the social security payment, or their spouse as well?


Family members can be included, provided you submit evidence of familial link, such as marriage certificate (translated and apostilled), birth certificate (for a child) etc.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes I remember from your previous posts.


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## dowellndoubtnot (Apr 6, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Family members can be included, provided you submit evidence of familial link, such as marriage certificate (translated and apostilled), birth certificate (for a child) etc.


Thank you! You are a great help, i really appreciate it!

So if I register as an autonomo (which is the plan anyway, as i do freelance work and would continue doing so in Spain), and pay the monthly social security payment, both I and my spouse would be able to access the public healthcare system? Would my parents also be able to do so through me?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Your parents will count as extended family members under the EU rules and you need to show that they are dependent on you - either physically (e.g. they are disabled and require your help daily) and/or financially (usually you have been supporting them up to 50% of their living costs for a few years, with evidence). Otherwise they need their own visa, such as non-lucrative and private medical insurance.


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## dowellndoubtnot (Apr 6, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Your parents will count as extended family members under the EU rules and you need to show that they are dependent on you - either physically (e.g. they are disabled and require your help daily) and/or financially (usually you have been supporting them up to 50% of their living costs for a few years, with evidence). Otherwise they need their own visa, such as non-lucrative and private medical insurance.


thank you!


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## dowellndoubtnot (Apr 6, 2013)

I am also curious if anyone might have experience of what the non-subsidized price of certain medications might be? For example olmesartan, simvastatin, and levothyroxine? 

I have read that medications can be much much cheaper in Spain, so perhaps not having a cap on the price of prescription medications on private insurance is not as big a deal as i am currently thinking?

Thanks


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

dowellndoubtnot said:


> I am also curious if anyone might have experience of what the non-subsidized price of certain medications might be? For example olmesartan, simvastatin, and levothyroxine?
> 
> I have read that medications can be much much cheaper in Spain, so perhaps not having a cap on the price of prescription medications on private insurance is not as big a deal as i am currently thinking?
> 
> Thanks


Just Google "precio de xxxxxx españa" and look for the PVP price for whatever dosage is required. The price of medicines is regulated in Spain so they won't vary by supplier or area.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

dowellndoubtnot said:


> My partner or 9 years, who will be either my husband or civil partner at the time that my parents would become residents in Spain.


I'm not at all sure that your parents count as immediate family to your partner, even were you to marry (which is the simplest way for *you* to get here).

You would have to prove that they are completely dependent on you & your partner, financially & otherwise, in order for them to come as family of an EU citizen exercising treaty rights.

As you suggested, one of them could apply for a self-employment visa, & then the other would be covered for healthcare. It isn't the easiest visa to secure though, & after the initial period, monthly autónomo payments are in excess of 300€ a month + income tax, regardless of income.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

xabiaxica said:


> I'm not at all sure that your parents count as immediate family to your partner, even were you to marry (which is the simplest way for *you* to get here).
> 
> You would have to prove that they are completely dependent on you & your partner, financially & otherwise, in order for them to come as family of an EU citizen exercising treaty rights.
> 
> As you suggested, one of them could apply for a self-employment visa, & then the other would be covered for healthcare. It isn't the easiest visa to secure though, & after the initial period, monthly autónomo payments are in excess of 300€ a month + income tax, regardless of income.


Certainly this immigration law firm's website says it is the "father or mother of the EU citizen" who qualifies as a family member, not the father or mother of the EU citizen's spouse.









Residence Card for Family Member of a European Union Citizen


Do you have a relative with a residence permit in Spain? Then, good news, because you can also get your visa pretty easily! Learn how here.




www.immigrationspain.es


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> Certainly this immigration law firm's website says it is the "father or mother of the EU citizen" who qualifies as a family member, not the father or mother of the EU citizen's spouse.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think EU citizen's spouse's parents (i.e. in-laws) are regarded as extended family members under EU law, for whom further requirements apply, usually to do with established care (i.e. the in-laws require regular personal care provided by the spouse, usually living with them) and financial (up to 50% of living costs covered by the spouse).


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