# Why do you want to migrate?



## bangalg (Apr 22, 2009)

Hi all,
It's only a matter of time before I get my Australian PR. I remember exactly 2 years back I had received my Canadian PR; but I was filled with doubts in my mind as to how I would fare as an immigrant, I let the visa expire. I regretted later and applied for my Australian PR. This is my last chance in life to migrate (I am 41). And this time I will go ahead. But still the very thought gives me the heebeejeebies. Let me list out what I hope to achieve my migrating:

a. Better quality of life for my kid (4 yrs.). I want him to become a citizen of a developed country so that he has more options in life. By quality I mean clean air, water, better roads....

b. I love India but I think it is creaking at its seams in terms of basic infrastructure. It is the highly moneyed that get away with murder. Power, pelf, influence rule. There is no feeling of justice. If you want to be happy, you need to cut yourself off from the injustices and mayhem around you

c. At work, nobody gives a damn about individual rights, there is super high pressure, outsourcing is the buzz word and we are merely becoming drones that fit into an outsourced world. Innovation is a term you use to prove that you are smart. But there cannot be any innovation here

d. Education is good in the convent schools. But just because you score well doesn't mean you are good. Cram cram cram. Poor kids lose that coveted seat in a college by a mere 0.5%. Competition is intense. We churn out really smart, intelligent, articulate individuals who are stifled by lack of opportunities

The list goes on. But surely making money is not the prime reason to migrate. I already make around USD 55K sitting in India. Also, being fairly well travelled, a foreign land offers limited novelty value to me.

Would you like to add to the above list? Let me understand why people want to migrate so that I can relate to this painful process better.


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

I can totally relate to all this bangalg

you have to see the way people work here, it is 9 to 5, no one works beyond that, i wont say no one but very few work after hours. if the timing is 9 to 5 30 or 8 30 to 5 you get about an hour's break and during that time, no one works, everyone is out of office is doing some or the other thing except for work.. people are so nice, courteous, this is one thing everyone has mentioned, people coming from US, UK, INdia, Pk etc, everyone appreciates the way people here in Australia are..


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## flossymacd (Jun 1, 2012)

bangalg said:


> Hi all,
> It's only a matter of time before I get my Australian PR. I remember exactly 2 years back I had received my Canadian PR; but I was filled with doubts in my mind as to how I would fare as an immigrant, I let the visa expire. I regretted later and applied for my Australian PR. This is my last chance in life to migrate (I am 41). And this time I will go ahead. But still the very thought gives me the heebeejeebies. Let me list out what I hope to achieve my migrating:
> 
> a. Better quality of life for my kid (4 yrs.). I want him to become a citizen of a developed country so that he has more options in life. By quality I mean clean air, water, better roads....
> ...


Well, Ive been living in the same "safe" place for 20+ years, and if I dont move now I will never move and become resentfull of myself, and thus be unhappy. Im leaving behind my children (young adults) and am going to have adventures, meet new people, experience new cultures, be totally out of my comfort zone, and basically get living.


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## SGAus (Mar 20, 2012)

Yes the work culture(Timings) in AUS and UK is good. LIke just 9 to 5 and anj told.....If there are any family circumstances you can negotiate with timings and companies are even happy to accept those until their work is finished. 
But I felt that the enjoyment in working is in US(depends on company even).....Like there are no restrictions for timings at all....you may come at any time and finish of your work...they just see the completion in work in IT....They wont care of timings......But in AUS they will check timings...but after 5 they wont.....like people sitting at the seat wont get up at all ..if they get up they will just for 2 or 3 breaks and lunch...no chitchatting(like in India).....I worked in 3 countries US, AUS and India...so I can compare.....
Timings wise AUS is good but you have to adapt to that work culture if you are already enjoying in Indian company working for US client


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## bangalg (Apr 22, 2009)

SGAus said:


> Yes the work culture(Timings) in AUS and UK is good. LIke just 9 to 5 and anj told.....If there are any family circumstances you can negotiate with timings and companies are even happy to accept those until their work is finished.
> But I felt that the enjoyment in working is in US(depends on company even).....Like there are no restrictions for timings at all....you may come at any time and finish of your work...they just see the completion in work in IT....They wont care of timings......But in AUS they will check timings...but after 5 they wont.....like people sitting at the seat wont get up at all ..if they get up they will just for 2 or 3 breaks and lunch...no chitchatting(like in India).....I worked in 3 countries US, AUS and India...so I can compare.....
> Timings wise AUS is good but you have to adapt to that work culture if you are already enjoying in Indian company working for US client


Ok Sgaus- so in effect, you are telling me that it is a more relaxed atmosphere working for an Indian IT company than working for an Aussie company in Australia. Is that correct?

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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

here they are very flexible with work timings, if you tell them you want to start at 7 am and finish at 3 30, no one wil say a thing, as long as you are working fr the hours that everyone works, no one will complain. i know people who start at 6 30 and finish at 3 and those who start at 9 30 and work till 6 30.


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## rafay (Jul 16, 2011)

well the main reason people like in south east asia migrating to australia or developed country is social insecurity. As most of them (skilled workers) have no financial problems like bangalb is earning handsomely in india but eager to move to developed country is because our society culture or environment is not secure. Delayed or no justice, negative mentality, social pressure and other qualitative issues like water, education, health and so on are some examples of social insecurities. working off hours is also a component of injustice companies doing in under developed countries to its employees which australia people adhere to. In a nutshell, it is social evils in our society which drag us to more secure enviornment.


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## Labeeb Ahmed (Oct 16, 2011)

Nice discussion Bangalg & Anj. For me its about my children who have potential to learn and research. Me too in a comfort zone here but that would not help me giving my children any good support to explore the world even if i become CEO of my institution. Social indicators are negative and hope for recovery is lean.


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## timus17 (Jan 11, 2012)

Wonderful thread... 

Everybody has a mixed feeling while they are planning for migration...

I too have... 

I just want to have better quality of living.... Yet to get married, 

However truly speaking i am frustrated from the level of corruption is there in India...

I just want to stay away.. 

To be very frank i still do not have an idea what benefits i would be getting as a PR, but still i just want to be in australia due to standard of leaving and for betterment of my future generation...

I am often confused that should i work there for 5-8 years and come back or should i take citizenship... i am more inclined towards the latter option..


One question for everyone here.. Here in India we get medical insurance from employer, back in australia do we get same kind of insurance and what is the difference between the medical benefits provided by government and by employer. 


1. Do we pay for both ? i mean is the insurance amount deducted from salary and we have to give the another amount for govt medical benefits.. 

2. The whole idea is to understand what are the benefits we get in Australia as a PR when we are paying the taxes.. What returns we get from out taxes ... 

3. Generally what components are deducted from the salary.


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## Labeeb Ahmed (Oct 16, 2011)

Taxation is heavy but pays you in return. Companies do pay for Medical if they have policy, mostly through insurance.


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## timus17 (Jan 11, 2012)

Labeeb Ahmed said:


> Taxation is heavy but pays you in return. Companies do pay for Medical if they have policy, mostly through insurance.


Thanks Labeeb.

So the medical benefits which a PR gets from government is just like a return on taxes paid. We donot need to pay extra premium apart fro income tax to purchase medical benefits ?


I was confused if the percentage of salary deducted as taxes gets you government benefits or the percentage of salary deducted by employer like PF, and other fund gives you these benefits.. or apart from these two deduction you need to pay more to get these benefits from government ?


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## zyoxizol (Apr 10, 2012)

Yes, there are many benefits by immigrating to developed country. Change in lifestyle, weather, people around you, friends, welfare system, security, better education, better infrastructure etc. I can buy most things on-line and get better customer service and I can stay in my home’s comfort and enjoy all the luxury, commuting is easy, laid-back culture. Get respected by everyone around, no one try to bully you or harass you for no reason. You can't expect many of these things in a developing country. In India, if you commute by public transport for work, reaching back home by bus or a local train could be a project in its own. 

To me life is never easy. When I was in India, I enjoyed my work and made good money but quest for exploration and world class universities brought me to the UK and once I have that, now I am looking for sunshine and beaches and better future for kids, so I am heading for Australia. May be after few years no matter how bad your country is one would start thinking of going back to the place you came from. I certainly will. 

To me it all depends on your current situation and what you want to achieve in short and long term. Good luck with your plans.


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## Xayla77 (Apr 4, 2012)

I really like this thread . Its thought provoking in the sense that why are we doing what we are doing  I can relate to the post by zyoxizol. I have been out of my home country( India) since years , live in a developed country.

Do I like it ? Yes and No
There are things I have given up very close to my heart to be here and there are things I have gained because I have been here.

Things that I have gained here are tangible so its feels easier to justify that it probably is better. The intangibles that I have lost out on are things I feel every day of my life so they occupy a fair share of my mind 

Hubby's job requires me to move to Ausland that Hubby is very excited about. What this move means for me is moving to a english speaking country ( which I am comfortable with), probably employment ( which I dont have right now) and better weather ( which I am praying for) .

So in the needs hierarchy Safe and sound goes out and comes in better weather 

I guess eventually I will want to go back to India after giving my son the choice to decide where he wants to settle . That's the only reason I realised I migrated for


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## OzWay (Mar 1, 2012)

Excellent thought provoking thread !

As Bangalg rightly indicated, making money is no more a strong factor at least for people who are earning handsomely in their respective countries. This is in contrast to those days where people used to migrate for becoming rich.

Personally, it is the hope for better standard of life and a corruption free society that motivates me to take this rather risky plunge. 

I hate to say this but here in India, nothing works unless we bribe. Also, in so-called metro cities, people are becoming intolerant because every one is so frustrated with hectic life, traffic woes, politics.. etc. and often involve in fights over silly issues. I am really fed up with this day-to-day harassment and decided that my kids should lead a better life, least affected by dirty politics and corruption.


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## Labeeb Ahmed (Oct 16, 2011)

The situation is same here in Pakistan what few friends have stated about India, add polarization.


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## bangalg (Apr 22, 2009)

OzWay said:


> Excellent thought provoking thread !
> 
> As Bangalg rightly indicated, making money is no more a strong factor at least for people who are earning handsomely in their respective countries. This is in contrast to those days where people used to migrate for becoming rich.
> 
> ...


My thoughts as well are similar. People ask me why I wish to migrate when India is the "happening" country and one can make so much money here. That often sets me thinking. But it only takes me one car ride on the roads to clear any doubts I have. The rich here decide to "block out" all the poverty, apathy and the problems by living in swanky gated apartments, hopping into a big car with all glasses rolled up and sending their kids to international schools. The situation is bearable in Bangalore. But by my own standards, in Delhi there is anarchy. People are deluding themselves by thinking there is law and order, complete rule of law and that democracy exists. I can go on and on about this.... We all know how elections are "won" here. 1 vote equals Rs.1,000. You can buy them. You can fix elections (take the case of dimple yadav getting elected unopposed in UP) by colluding with other parties. You can take a BMW car and run over 10 people and still be the most popular movie star, you can run a scam of $ 10 billion and still come out of prison in 1 year, you can use your position as the police chief, molest a 14 year old, drive her to suicide, destroy their family and still be walking free and respected.
Sorry.... All these thoughts drive me crazy and make me flee this country...

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## rafay (Jul 16, 2011)

:boxing:


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

Bangalg, in one year i have forgotten what Indian news can be like, I was watching NDTV two days back and I could not watch it beyond 5 mins, i think 5 mins is also too much, i changed the channel in 2mins, i was so disgusted by the crime news, The big news here in Mlbourne a few days back was, a truck full of sheep toppled over and two sheep went down the flyway and landed on two cars.. that was a topic of discussion everywehre.. now you can compare the two countries. I am not disgusted by Indian as a country but the people who are taking the country to the dogs.. what are they thinking, veryone is trying to make the best of now, gather money, do as they please.. plus all the terror alerts and threats are beyond me.. i wanted to give my daughter a clean life, air she can breathe in, food she can eat, water she can drink without having to run it through ROs three times, pathway she can walk on and parks she can play in without being worried about being raped or kidnapped or all those sickening things that come on a parent's mind when a child is out playing in a park


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## rafay (Jul 16, 2011)

All that matters is social insecurity as i have mentioned in my earlier post. In countries like ours i.e. India, Pakistan we are running from our countries due to social indicators. the people of other developed countries like UK are moving due to financial reasons, better luxuries and environment (beaches etc) and better climate.


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## Labeeb Ahmed (Oct 16, 2011)

Enough for my motivation


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## qwerty_asdf (Apr 9, 2012)

Gr8 thread and lively discussion.

Everyone needs a motive to migrate. I'm 30 and single, people keep bugging me when am I going to get married, its getting late etc. So one fine day decided its going to get harder as I have no plans to get married in near future. I like the more mind your business nature of western world. I know it sounds trivial when compared to a refugee story, but its still a motive.


Now coming back to the most repeated motive on this thread, a better life for your kids. I am just back from a trip to Sydney, and was invited home by an Indian couple I met there. They have two lovely kids who are doing well academically. But once I had a conversation for few hours with the family, I wasn't sure how the kids are coping with the whole thing.

The father is pining for his life back in India, they were mostly watching Indian TV channels. He even said in front of the kids that they can never be Australians as they were black and Australians are white(his words), though both the kids born in Australia and citizens by birth and parents citizens by naturalization. The kids were talking in English among themselves and in mother tongue with parents. So, I am not sure if giving a better material world to your Kids, while confusing them about their roots is such a great option. I am not saying every family goes through this, but I now understand where the term ABCD(Americn born confused Desi) comes from. 

And someone else commented about chitchatting in Indian offices. Sorry bro, We officially work for 9 hours a day excluding lunch and many more unbilled hours. I found people bringing their lunch to desk, so they can just stay 7.5 hours in office bizzarre. We might chitchat, but when we work, we do non-stop, but in Australia the whole day seemed like chitchatting, I had to ****n my ipod to not get disturbed. This might just be the office I visted. But I also I watched a show on Aus TV about a survey which shows that Australians waste 1/3rd of their work hours. Frankly I was a little worried about this whole time thing, Australia already has the most no of holidays in world, is it sustainable. Just look at france.


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## bangalg (Apr 22, 2009)

Very well written, qwerty. I will keep going back to what you have said. I think grass is greener on the other side, as always. No perfect world but you have written something to ponder over.

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## timus17 (Jan 11, 2012)

bangalg said:


> My thoughts as well are similar. People ask me why I wish to migrate when India is the "happening" country and one can make so much money here. That often sets me thinking. But it only takes me one car ride on the roads to clear any doubts I have. The rich here decide to "block out" all the poverty, apathy and the problems by living in swanky gated apartments, hopping into a big car with all glasses rolled up and sending their kids to international schools. The situation is bearable in Bangalore. But by my own standards, in Delhi there is anarchy. People are deluding themselves by thinking there is law and order, complete rule of law and that democracy exists. I can go on and on about this.... We all know how elections are "won" here. 1 vote equals Rs.1,000. You can buy them. You can fix elections (take the case of dimple yadav getting elected unopposed in UP) by colluding with other parties. You can take a BMW car and run over 10 people and still be the most popular movie star, you can run a scam of $ 10 billion and still come out of prison in 1 year, you can use your position as the police chief, molest a 14 year old, drive her to suicide, destroy their family and still be walking free and respected.
> Sorry.... All these thoughts drive me crazy and make me flee this country...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum



I agree... 100%.... I feel the same kind of frustration see all this happening around....

and that's the reason i want to move out ...


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## kb1983 (Sep 2, 2011)

qwerty_asdf said:


> Gr8 thread and lively discussion.
> 
> Everyone needs a motive to migrate. I'm 30 and single, people keep bugging me when am I going to get married, its getting late etc. So one fine day decided its going to get harder as I have no plans to get married in near future. I like the more mind your business nature of western world. I know it sounds trivial when compared to a refugee story, but its still a motive.
> 
> ...


I think the confusion would be anywhere. I moved inside my country from a small village in Bihar to Bangalore like metro for 10 years and now in Mumbai. I dont know my kids will speak native language of Bihar or the local version of Hindi or English. I think that's immaterial. *You cannot escape missing some part of your native, wherver you go and how succesful you become there.* Let the children enjoy their new native. They would be thankful to you if you give them a better place to live, I suppose. By this forum, I feel that even some Brits also miss their native culture.

Regarding the chitchatting I have seen at other countries too, like in Germany, which is too industrious. Indian work for 9 hours but it matters what kind of work they do. Manual testing/documentation or the kind of work which is outsourced here can not be called a productive job in other countries until not done methodically.

I am not also totally gungho about Australian work culture. I sense that IT is market oriented there much (e.g. mostly in banking and finance). Haven't come across much about Australian R&D in IT or the part of industry which works for R&D in IT. I think that would be mostly driven by universities there, which compensates for that. But I know that there are many Nobel lauraets from OZ. I have yet to experience the environment first hand there, so my comments should be excused, if some one finds incorrect.

But yes, I like open places, beaches, cities like Sydney, Melb, sports culture and good roads etc....which are enough reasons for migration.

Kind regards,
kb1983


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## OzWay (Mar 1, 2012)

anj1976 said:


> Bangalg, in one year i have forgotten what Indian news can be like, I was watching NDTV two days back and I could not watch it beyond 5 mins, i think 5 mins is also too much, i changed the channel in 2mins, i was so disgusted by the crime news, The big news here in Mlbourne a few days back was, a truck full of sheep toppled over and two sheep went down the flyway and landed on two cars.. that was a topic of discussion everywehre.. now you can compare the two countries. I am not disgusted by Indian as a country but the people who are taking the country to the dogs.. what are they thinking, veryone is trying to make the best of now, gather money, do as they please.. plus all the terror alerts and threats are beyond me.. i wanted to give my daughter a clean life, air she can breathe in, food she can eat, water she can drink without having to run it through ROs three times, pathway she can walk on and parks she can play in without being worried about being raped or kidnapped or all those sickening things that come on a parent's mind when a child is out playing in a park


Yeah, all indian breaking news are "shocking news" for most of the world. In bangalore, these days, there are at least 3 murders and numerous suicides every day on page-3 of TOI main edition. I am not even mentioning other crimes like rape, kidnap, accidents, scandals, violent agitations..etc,

That reminds me of the time when I lived in Canada for about an year and the most frightful/shocking/worrisome news during that period was that "a toddler had frost-bite outside their house due to her mother's negligence of not locking the door while they were sleeping". At that time, for me, the news itself was not shocking but the fact that it was considered a major news was indeed was shocking (after spending 30 years in India).


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## gillofrompk (Apr 2, 2012)

Its nice thread to know the motivation behind the move to OZ

For everyone leaving their native country is not easy...specially when ur single coz u have friendz and family back there and despite what happens to you, u know they are their for u (in most cases). Yet their are benefits associated with the move.

For me their were alot of factors that influenced me to decide to Immigrate.
1. To be honest with u guyz i have been earning not too much and not to low. Good enough for me to manage but yet i desire for better life specially after i get married and have kids. OZ is good opportunity to enhance ur way of living, have better quality life and u can work in a relaxed environment.

2. The current scenario of corruption in South Asia (PAK, India , Srilanka and Bangladesh) has annoyed many people including myself. I hate the current Democratic system of my country( This doesnt implies that i hate my country). The way things go around here. Like if i have to get a electricity connection i have to goto 5 different offices and in each office i may encounter 2 or more clerks who can drive me crazy all day. Developed countries like OZ have actually developed their systems. I mean come on yar how hard it is in reality.


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## oz_sg10 (Aug 31, 2010)

qwerty_asdf said:


> Gr8 thread and lively discussion.
> 
> Everyone needs a motive to migrate. I'm 30 and single, people keep bugging me when am I going to get married, its getting late etc. So one fine day decided its going to get harder as I have no plans to get married in near future. I like the more mind your business nature of western world. I know it sounds trivial when compared to a refugee story, but its still a motive.
> 
> ...



Australia has the most public holidays in the world? That is new information to me.. as far as I know, we have just 11 public holidays in Victoria, and 20 days annual leave in most companies. In addition, there is personal/sick leave depending on company policy(we get 10 days, and some more circumstance based leaves like compassionate leave, paternity leave etc
). This varies depending on the company, but it is more or less the same throughout. I think it is almost similar to the situation in India, isnt it?

Regarding the working hours, I have noticed that people here make more use of the time they are in office, and then leave on time. This is what I have observed in my company and this is the general opinion, that I get from my friends, relatives etc working in other companies. I do not disagree that there may be exceptions. 

In India, I have worked with 4-5 companies including the so called top IT service companies as well as product/non-IT companies. I have seen that a vast majority of people come just for time pass but there are a lot of people as you said, who work their a**es off and spend late hours. Others simply sit in office just to complete 9 hours and sit late to show they are working or to do somemore chitchatting lol, and to be honest the majority that I have come across is the latter. These opinions probably vary from person to person and probably there is no right or wrong. 

Regarding kids, I agree that they get clean air and all that stuff, but once they are teenagers, it is better for their future to go back to India for a better future as I find the teenagers are a bit wild here .. atleast to the subcontinent standards. They can probably come back after say a graduation or so and then proceed with higher studies and then live in Australia. This is just my opinion aga


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## qwerty_asdf (Apr 9, 2012)

oz_sg10 said:


> Australia has the most public holidays in the world? That is new information to me.. as far as I know, we have just 11 public holidays in Victoria, and 20 days annual leave in most companies. In addition, there is personal/sick leave depending on company policy(we get 10 days, and some more circumstance based leaves like compassionate leave, paternity leave etc
> ). This varies depending on the company, but it is more or less the same throughout. I think it is almost similar to the situation in India, isnt it?
> 
> Regarding the working hours, I have noticed that people here make more use of the time they are in office, and then leave on time. This is what I have observed in my company and this is the general opinion, that I get from my friends, relatives etc working in other companies. I do not disagree that there may be exceptions.
> ...


Regarding the no of holidays I might be wrong, but I do work in HR Module and they do have lot of leave types, Long Service Leave(LSL) for one is new to me. I might have been mislead by an article I read about average travel days spent by people from different countries, Australians were leading by far in that list.

You are also right about the time-passers in Indian offices, but I was reacting to singling out Indian IT guys as chitchatters. I was working 14 hours a day when in Sydney, and had a hard time dealing with people leaving at 4PM. I work with Americans a lot and they tend to stay late when there is a deadline looming.

As for dealing with kids, it might not be a gr8 idea to remove kids at teenage from the environment they grew up in, teenage still is a formative stage. But I do agree they can be sent to India to find their roots during college age. I think that's one of the reason why we have NRI quotas in our colleges.

I am single, but if I do have Kids, I would prefer to raise them in India. Inspite of all the issues plaguing India, its going through a tremendous change(Inspite of the govt  ) and growing up in a fast changing world is a great experience to any kid. I was born in 80s and consider myself lucky to see all the change that India went through in the past 20 years. I live in Bangalore and can tell from firsthand experience its possible to live a first world life in India if you earn enough(The only thing I found in Australia that I didn't find in India are wide roads  and better public transport and am sure Will be better at all public amenities ). 

Finally, I know that I am comparing the best in India with the everyday/regular things in Australia. Its just that I don't want people who have goodlifes in India to move just for a few better public amenities, by missing all that they have in India.


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## coolmohsin4u (Oct 9, 2010)

Hello Everyone...

It was really pleasant to know why people would like to migrate...and yess...even I share the same feelings as many of you...But recently...i got to read an article...which somewhat shaked me up...but nevertheless didn't change my decision to migrate....just ponder over below para...

A typical conversation with a visiting NRI….. 

Self: Hi! Home for a holiday? Are you going back…..or…? 

NRI: Yes…yes…I am going back as soon as possible. 

Self: But…your parents are here. There are also many new malls now where you can get everything you want. Its even cheaper than in the US, Europe or Canada or Australia. 

NRI: Yes…..things are real cheap here in India….products are very good……the malls are also very good…..restaurants are excellent. But….the roads and the traffic are so terrible….I can’t wait to get back. 

Self: Yes…I agree….but….that’s only one relatively small factor….surely you can adjust and put up with that. The situation would improve once the Metro is operational. 

NRI: No…No. Why should I put up with the traffic and the crowds and the garbage? Why should I adjust? Its impossible. 

Self: OK….lets change the subject. How are your parents? I heard your mother had some health problem. Is she ok now? 

NRI: Oh… yeah…she’s ok! Doctors have given her some medicines. Dad is there to take care of her. 

Self: But he is old ……how will he manage? Besides, both will be missing all of you so much. Loneliness is terrible. That itself can lead to so many diseases. 

NRI: He’ll manage. He has to adjust, I guess. 

Self: OK…..how is life in America? What do you eat at home?. The usual Idlis, Dosas Upma etc. that you like so much? Indian food, particularly South Indian food is considered the healthiest! It contains all essential nutrients in a very balanced way. 

NRI: Well…no…not really. We normally eat cereals for breakfast….straight from boxes. I carry sandwiches for lunch or eat some salad at the cafeteria (everything is so expensive). For dinner we take out some food stored in the freezer and heat it in the microwave….and that’s it. Its difficult to cook every day, you know….so we cook once a week and store it in the freezer. 

Self: But that’s not healthy. Also, eating packaged & processed food every day could lead to many diseases. We read about this every day. 

NRI: Oh…. no problem. We adjust. We sometimes eat meat to make up for the proteins. 

Self: But you are traditionally a vegetarian, I thought. Vegetarianism is considered a better option for general health, animal rights and for spiritual reasons….. and many westerners are now becoming vegetarians. So…why have you switched to non-veg? 

NRI: Well…its no big deal really. One has to adjust. 

Self: It must be cold where you live…..you have lived all your life in warm South India. 

NRI: Yes…its terribly cold out there with months of snow….but we have central heating. We don’t go out much….but its...ok. We learn to adjust. 

Self: How is your wife? Does she also work? What about the children? 

NRI: Of course…! She has to work! We can’t manage with one person working. We have mortgages to pay. We both leave our home at 8 am and are back at 6 pm. We have only one child who comes from school and stays alone till we come home. He watches TV and eats something from the freezer. Some of our friends are even opting not to have any children….so that they could save all the trouble. God!…..Children are such a responsibility! 

Self: Yes…that they certainly are. 

NRI: Children are also very expensive. Their clothes, food, eating out, vacations….buying new stuff every few months just to keep up with their peers in school….its terrible! 

Self: So how do you manage? What about the culture? The sexual freedom and so on? Aren’t you worried about these adverse influences on your children? 

NRI: No one bothers about all that. Its part of life. If my son adopts that lifestyle…that’s ok with me. We need to adjust and get on with life. 

Self: I understand that due to the recession and its aftermath there is a subtle antagonism towards foreigners and immigrants. Is that true? 

NRI: Well….yeah…sometimes you do sense a mild discrimination and bigotry. Recently in fact, someone shouted out an abuse at my wife when she was out shopping. Someone at school called out ‘Paki go home’ to my son. But these things are rare…. because…. by and large, we keep to ourselves. We rarely interact with the whites or the other immigrants. Even they prefer to keep to themselves. We have our own small Indian groups with whom we socialize. So…such racist incidents are kept to the minimum. We adjust and learn to manage. 

Self : What about entertainment? Do you get Indian TV channels and programs? Do you eat out often? 

NRI: Indian channels are usually pay channels and very expensive. So…we don’t have them. We manage with the local english programs. We do see Indian movies sometimes. They are expensive and you need to drive for an hour to get to the cinema hall. So….we don’t do it very often. Eating out is very expensive. Indian food is even more expensive. 

Self: Where do you live in the US and do you own a house? 

NRI: We live in a locality with lot of Hispanics, Koreans and Chinese. We have bought a house on mortgage recently. Its not very big actually. Just a two bedroom twin home of about 1000 sq ft. Unfortunately prices have dropped recently. But we like it. 

Self: But you have a fairly big home in India……... 

NRI: Yes……but…..what have I got in India? Nothing! 

Self: What do you do if one of you is ill? Do any neighbors help? 

NRI: Actually….one of my neighbors is a Korean man who lives with his girlfriend. On the other side are two….er…..too. We have to help ourselves most of the time. Our Indian friends live some distance away…..and no one will help if we are ill. Everyone is so busy with their own work. 

Self: What sort of work do you do in the US? Is it some highly specialized cutting edge work……. for which you cannot get a job in India? 

NRI: Actually…..I am a software engineer. I had a good job till recently, but I got laid off and had a terrible three months. I have recently been called for an interview for a temporary contract position. I may get it. Things are looking good…yeah…..I am ok! 

Self: But you would be able to get a very good…highly paying job in India. India’s booming with a very high rate of growth! 

NRI: Yes…I know. I’ll probably get a much better salary than what I get in the US…. and maybe I’ll be able to save much more too…. but…it’s so difficult to adjust to the traffic and the crowds in India…you know. Its impossible to come back. 

Self: OK then….. goodbye and good luck! 

(I think to myself as I say goodbye)……Yeah.. right! You can adjust to packaged food and poor health, small dark wooden home, heavy mortgages, terrible weather conditions, lack of family, lonely parents, bad cultural environment, racial abuse, loss of dignity & self respect, job insecurity and even your basic principles……but you can’t adjust to simple traffic conditions in India! How incongruous can you get!


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## Labeeb Ahmed (Oct 16, 2011)

Not impressed with the tale above, its not Australian NRI probably and situation is not same for every body.


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## qwerty_asdf (Apr 9, 2012)

Labeeb Ahmed said:


> Not impressed with the tale above, its not Australian NRI probably and situation is not same for every body.


Hi Labeeb, you are right. Its just one guys story, but unless people try to integrate into their new adopted home, they are going to be lonely.


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

I Beg to differ coolmohsin4u

i have a 19 month old, i worked for sometime but then i left and took up a course which meant I was out all day anyways, i manage cooking all meals and fresh meals, we have a bit of frozen but only when i am in no mood to cook, but then i try and use frozen veggies and make the preps fresh. I am studying which means i am not working and we are managing well in one income. here you can get big houses with just one person working, all you have to do is spend sensibly. and no it isn't just bad roads in India, it is the bureaucrats, roads, traffic, crime, terror, racial abuse (exits more in India than here, i have been here for a year now and am yet to be discriminated). Job security is not there any where but here if they lay you off, they give you enough compensation, about 2 months salary which is tax free, comes out to be 2 and half month's salary, one can find work easily, need not be just your line, people study here as and when, irrespective of their age, does not happen in India

those who have an option move out, those who don't, stay back and live with the traffic and everything else mentioned above and i can bet my life on this, 95% of those who have an option to move out do, only 5% think otherwise

i could never think of letting my kid walk on the road by herself, here I can. it is expensive here but life is good, i can travel by busses and train but in India i never travelled by bus after i left school.


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## hello420 (Apr 13, 2012)

My reasons for moving out of India are similar.
The level of corruption we are seeing in India is simply unbelievable. 
If you are a businessman in India.....ENJOY.
If you are a bureaucrat in india.........ENJOY.
If you are a Politician in India............SUPER ENJOY.

Poor never had much to be truthful.

But heavens forbid if you are a regular middle class man in India.

1. Govt will take its share of loot (read taxes) from you salary even before you get it in your account.

2. But still you need to pay tolls on the well maintained roads. Err.....But I paid taxes....right?
Wrong....Taxes are there so that Politicians and Businessmen can do scams and enjoy the crores.

3. You pay a hefty donation to get you kid in school. And then every year pay a hefty annual fees. Is it not responsibility of govt to ensure good educational system? Never mind.

4. Pray to god everyday and exercise everyday. Because if something goes wrong then you are looking at a bill of 1 lakh plus. If you only get just a small infection, doctors will make you undergo all the tests coz they get a cut from the labs.

5. If you have to deal with Police then keep muttering prayers that everything goes all right.
If it does then rejoice.

6. If you get into a legal tangle then enjoy for 15 years. Yes that is the usual time it takes for a judgement. 

For all who are saying that India and China are now the happening place, well I can't comment on China. But in India the development is taking place because market is yet to saturate unlike US and Europe. Not because of strong fundamentals.

And I do not see any hope in future also.

Why?

The origin of India's mess can be traced to the time when we got independence.

The British when they were here created three important things:
1. Judiciary
2. Civil Services.
3. Police

These three were created in such a way that they were in no way answerable to common man. For obvious reasons. After all British were not in India for charity.

When India became independent, then the biggest con was done. 

The brown sahibs decided that they will make *NO CHANGES* in this system. So that they can enjoy. That con which was played on Indians still plagues the country today. No govt ever will bring any radical changes which will cut off the money making channels. no govt.

I simply do not want my kid to undergo the same things I went through. Hence the PR.
I hope I will get better worth of Taxes I pay there.


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

This is becoming a venting thread for people, including me .. but I love my country and i am what I am because I was born in the country and i have values taught by its people..


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## qwerty_asdf (Apr 9, 2012)

Actually this thread is more like a typical conversation b/w a NRI returning to India after a longtime and the Locals. I myself engaged in conversations where the topic starts with corruption etc and moves on to Hygiene standards etc.........as a Resident Indian I always defended India. But I also made a point to myself, when I return to India as an NRI I'll keep my opinions to myself or be subtle about my observations. Otherwise it doesn't take long for Resident Indians to think of NRIs as showoffs etc.


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## Sanjukta (Mar 9, 2012)

coolmohsin4u said:


> (I think to myself as I say goodbye)……Yeah.. right! You can adjust to packaged food and poor health, small dark wooden home, heavy mortgages, terrible weather conditions, lack of family, lonely parents, bad cultural environment, racial abuse, loss of dignity & self respect, job insecurity and even your basic principles……but you can’t adjust to simple traffic conditions in India! How incongruous can you get!


The way you have put this whole conversation is a bit biased. While you may have got some of the facts right but you did not accurately convey the emotions that were attached to these facts.

To begin with the packaged food part- yes people in USA are somewhat dependent on packaged food but one needs to see the crowd on any day of the week in the Indian grocery markets, they are packed with families trying to get their hands on fresh vegetables, spices etc. This only goes to show that people cook at home fresh food. Now cooking may not be a regular part and that could be a choice for some people. I for example don't like cooking everyday as the free time I get after office I like to go to gym, or go for run by the lake. I am able to do this only because of the awesome subway and bus service and less traffic.

Small dark wooden home- homes here are made of wood for a reason I hope you know that? Let's face it houses in metros are not that big either as the cost is increasing so there are very few who can afford a 5 BHK in a city like Blore or Mumbai. Any family is attached to a mortgage or a home loan unless they are inheriting the house from their parents. 

Racial discrimination and bad culture - I in my 5 years stay in USA is yet to see racial discrimination. People here always greet and smile no matter if they are complete strangers. If by bad culture you mean that kids here sexually mature at an earlier age then I suggest you look again as India is not far behind....need I remind you of the DPS MMS clip that circulated 6 years ago. 

I could go on and on about all the points but the fact is there are pros and cons for every place and to get something you need to sacrifice few things....I personally don't mind the few sacrifices that I make to live in this world where I am not affected by corruption, bribe, pollution and others poking into my business. For me its worth it.


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## coolmohsin4u (Oct 9, 2010)

Sanjukta said:


> The way you have put this whole conversation is a bit biased. While you may have got some of the facts right but you did not accurately convey the emotions that were attached to these facts


Dear Sanjukta and all my dear friends,

I would like to clarify that the conversation posted by me are not my personnel views...it was just a forward email on my mailbox.....I definitely agree with most of the reasons given by the people here for migrating and I definitely support their views.......

Everything which we do has both sides good and Bad, advantages & disadvantages....and let us all go ahead with the advantages and try to reduce the disadvantages by proper thinking and taking the right action at the right time...

Wish you all great success in ur life...

Cheers...:clap2:


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## bangalg (Apr 22, 2009)

I suppose one can't help that this thread is becoming sub-continent-centric. Indians form the biggest chunk of immigrants annually (around 17%) after the British. China is next but quite behind in numbers. 

Followers of Indian news would surely know about the recent outrage that people showed on an issue of 'Cartoons' in textbooks. We had the 'backwards' feeling humiliated that their great leader was being shown in a poor light. The politicians were so so efficient in purging the offending cartoon from the textbooks. I am sure there would have been a ridiculous memo sent to the school teachers asking them to pretend that partciluar page does not exist while reading the textbook out to the Students. And the Students can be sure to get a big zero if they refer to the cartoon, even if absolutely relevant, in any of their answers. You will have tuition teachers telling students that "Whatever you write or not write, please do not make any reference to THE cartoon"...

Whew! We are getting so intolerant that the only cartoons we will see in newspapers will be those of mickey and donald. The way we are going, even those may be at risk if Mickey mouse wears a cloth with a hint of Saffron (The Hindu priests will be offended and cry that Hinduism is being trivialised) or if Donald rides on a pig (The Mullahs will be offended). There will be unending debates about this in parliament and they will ban that as well.

I was wondering how 'liberal' Australia is. I am sure, in the USA, if there is a cartoon exaggerating something about Abraham Lincoln, they will will all have a good laugh. We know that a section of current Australian residents are descendants of convicts banished from England. We also know that Australia had a 'whites only' immigration policy until the 60s. Also the discrimination against aborigines is not something that Australians would be proud of. So just like every country has some gory past, even Australia is no exception. 

If there is a cartoon that shows any of these aspects of Australia's past, how is the reaction? Do they laugh it off or is there an 'ostrich in the sand' attitude and nobody talks about such things let alone depict them in the form of cartoons?


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## perfect stranger (Jun 8, 2012)

Hi

Nice thread to know our opinions. I guess probably most of us from Asia are moving towards Australia due to lack of justice and ample corruption in our countries. However I was surprised to say that even people from UK / US / Canada are also moving to Australia.

Now this fact baffles me much as US has a strong economy with pure justice system. What could be the reason for people moving from there. Perhaps, it could be a sense of adventure or trying a new country for a change, but I would definitely opt for USA on H1-B or Canadian immigration because these are the top countries in the world, economy wise and justice wise. Of course my third choice would be UK.

But as USA and Canada have virtually closed their doors, so Australia seems a good option.


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## rafay (Jul 16, 2011)

Every country or place has its own pros and cons as already discussed. It depends on individual's priority what they expect from the country one emigrated. As thread name suggests "why do you want to want emigrate" or simply we may say that why do you want to leave your home country. I think its more painful for a person to leave it homeland and near & dear than to settle in a strange land. Then its an open question to all of you that why you have take this painful step to leave your country and settle in a strange country? is it like:

i. Injustice or unaccountability
ii. poor education system for your kids
iii. poor health system
iv. Poor infrastructure (broken Roads, traffic congestion, untidy street and so on)
vi. Over population
viii. corruption (both bureaucratic and political)
ix. Intolerant & aggressive societal behaviour
x. Others 

please share your feedback.


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## VmX (Jun 11, 2012)

Well, I feel everyone goes through this thought process when considering moving to another country..

I have a lot of friends based in US and a few in Australia. I've also had the chance to interact with some expats in South East Asia. I feel your choice to move has a lot to do with your personal taste (read priorities) as well as your temperament. For some, it is easy to live away from family and 'roots'. For some, life is all about their family and town.

After interacting with my friends and observing a few things I have a few concerns..mostly with the social aspects, which may not seem so important in the initial fw years , but do seem to play their part over time.


1. Most of the people tend to socialize with people from their own country or at most Asians or fellow expats. Eg. All kids' birthdays and other celebrations are celebrated with say 90% home crowd.. Would you agree?

2. Some (mostly in US) want to come back, because they do not want their kids expermenting with drugs in school or risk their kids being shot at - and want their kids to learn the "Indian Values" and get Indian education at least at school level. Ok..the shooting bit is probably a bit exaggerated..

3. A thought came to me when looking at the point about giving the kids a better life. I feel the western culture is more indiviualistic. When the kids grow up, the norm is to be independent and on your own. One must be prepared for that - Unlike the Indan expectation that even after growing up, kids look out for ageing parents and when in need. I got to know of an ageing couple in Melbourne. Both now retired, cannot afford to keep a permanent domestic help (its pretty expensive out there - a fortnightly visit to vacuum a 4-5 bhk house + cleaning toilets would be a $100 per visit). Even when they're in 70s, they'll need to do most of the chores on their own. I feel such things are very affordable in India - I feel this is also helpful to note when u're going their with younger kids who are not yet in school and need constant care. 

4. From personal experience, I feel that after 4-5 yrs (earlier for some) , one gets too used to the things one has in the country he/she's moved to and it stops sounding as a 'blessing'. Being oblivious of that, he/she ends up comparing the social factor (family life, freedom of being a natural citizen etc) and thats when the pain starts. I also know people who spent 10 yrs in US, came back due to emotional sentiments and couldnt cope with the work culture and are considering going back..

5. Another case is of those parents (say you fast fowrard your own case 20 yrs) who migrated 20-30 yrs ago, raised their kids abroad and now wish to live retired life in India. I feel its totally unfair to expect the kids to adjust with that.. Would you be prepared for that? 


I guess I've not listed out the pros and just the cons.. most of the pros have already been covered in earlier threads.. and that's why we're here in the first place! These are just a few concerns..


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## Xayla77 (Apr 4, 2012)

Hi VMX ,

My Two Cents are attached. I am an Indian by descent but live in Germany for many years. My take on this from being here 



VmX said:


> Well, I feel everyone goes through this thought process when considering moving to another country..
> 
> I.
> 
> ...


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## qwerty_asdf (Apr 9, 2012)

Xayla77 said:


> Hi VMX ,
> 
> My Two Cents are attached. I am an Indian by descent but live in Germany for many years. My take on this from being here
> 
> ...


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## adsghosh (Dec 14, 2011)

qwerty_asdf said:


> Xayla77 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi VMX ,
> ...


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## Sanjukta (Mar 9, 2012)

I came across this very interesting factual article by Fareed Zakaria which deals with immigration norms of various countries. I was particualary very happy to read the following lines:

"Australia, which only 15 years ago had strong strains of nativism and xenophobia dominating its political culture, now has more than a quarter of its population as foreign born – double America’s share – and is thriving because of the economic growth and cultural diversity."

Immigration lessons for the U.S. from around the world – Global Public Square - CNN.com Blogs

The article is a little off the topic of the thread but nonetheless very informative. Bangalg hope you dont mind me posting it in the thread.


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## bangalg (Apr 22, 2009)

Sanjukta said:


> I came across this very interesting factual article by Fareed Zakaria which deals with immigration norms of various countries. I was particualary very happy to read the following lines:
> 
> "Australia, which only 15 years ago had strong strains of nativism and xenophobia dominating its political culture, now has more than a quarter of its population as foreign born – double America’s share – and is thriving because of the economic growth and cultural diversity."
> 
> ...


Oh- There is no reason to mind 
It's a nice blog. But as you say, it's a little off topic as it looks at immigration from the destination country's point of view. The answers I, personally, am seeking are more from the immigrating individual's point of view.

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## Bbay2Oz (May 10, 2010)

We've been expats for the past 22+ years having lived in HK, NY, Dubai and finally settled down in Melbourne around 4 years ago. 

TBH right until 2005 we were in two minds whether or not to eventually settle down in India. We even let our Aussie PR lapse in 2005 (Thank God we had the good sense to apply again and fortunate enough to get it again!).

The thing is during our vacations in India we enjoy ourselves there immensely. Early 2000's used to be great for shopping and spending $$ and thinking wow, everything is so inexpensive and life is good in India. When we're on holiday and meeting our loved ones everything always appears so rosy. You don't worry about school admissions, gas connection, petrol price, power cuts, weather, mosquitoes etc. It was surreal. 

Reality hits only when you actually plan to live there permanently, well thankfully it hit us anyway. How the hell could our kids (educated in a different curriculum through out never having lived in India) cope with the daily grind in school, property prices went through the roof and things started getting really expensive. I don't find India inexpensive any more, things are just so expensive. For a far lower outgoing our quality of life in Melbourne is incomparable. 


I still love India and am extremely defensive about my birth country!. I don't think these feelings will ever go away no matter how ever long I live in Australia. Unfortunately at this point in time, this is not enough for us to consider returning permanently.


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## mpp (Jul 12, 2010)

Bbay2Oz said:


> We've been expats for the past 22+ years having lived in HK, NY, Dubai and finally settled down in Melbourne around 4 years ago.
> 
> TBH right until 2005 we were in two minds whether or not to eventually settle down in India. We even let our Aussie PR lapse in 2005 (Thank God we had the good sense to apply again and fortunate enough to get it again!).
> 
> ...


Really nice thread, stoked by the discussion , getting some really nice perspectives.
I completely agree with what you said, i have been out of india for 4 years now and husband for almost 10 years and every few weeks we have this discussion as to whether we want to go back to India or settle outside. As you said India is becoming day by day expensive and the quality of life is just not worth that money.To give an example I am from Mumbai, and the property prices are atrocious a matchbox size 2BHK in the suburb of Andheri will cost around 1.50 crore+ and the moment I step out of the building there will be slums along the footpath or a garbage dumpster.
Also this feb when I was in Mumbai i just realized people in general have become so intolerant, angry , frustrated or plain ignorant. Like I went for a exhibition in Bandra with my parents and when coming back we were trying to get a cab back home. There were 2 empty cabs and both of them flatly refused and i had my 4 year old nephew and 9 month old niece with me and my parents but still the taxi drivers were not ready. I argued with him how can he say no, if you are not busy you have to take us even then he was not ready to budge. i even told him will call the traffic police who was standing near the signal, but still he was not bothered. And guess what when we were having this argument rest of the people were just mere spectators no one came forward to stand by us or help us (with 2 small kids and elderly parents).No one bothered to find another taxi or something i was running around like mad in the evening rush trying to find a taxi, finally i went to the traffic policeman, he was initially not interested as the traffic signal was broken and he was busy routing the traffic but when i literally begged him and told him i had kids and elderly parents did he bother to help.
This incident really shook me and got me face to face with stark ground reality, this may be a small thing but the very fact that this can happen on a day to day basis was enough deterrent to me for not wanting to move back to India.


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## qwerty_asdf (Apr 9, 2012)

mpp said:


> Really nice thread, stoked by the discussion , getting some really nice perspectives.
> I completely agree with what you said, i have been out of india for 4 years now and husband for almost 10 years and every few weeks we have this discussion as to whether we want to go back to India or settle outside. As you said India is becoming day by day expensive and the quality of life is just not worth that money.To give an example I am from Mumbai, and the property prices are atrocious a matchbox size 2BHK in the suburb of Andheri will cost around 1.50 crore+ and the moment I step out of the building there will be slums along the footpath or a garbage dumpster.
> Also this feb when I was in Mumbai i just realized people in general have become so intolerant, angry , frustrated or plain ignorant. Like I went for a exhibition in Bandra with my parents and when coming back we were trying to get a cab back home. There were 2 empty cabs and both of them flatly refused and i had my 4 year old nephew and 9 month old niece with me and my parents but still the taxi drivers were not ready. I argued with him how can he say no, if you are not busy you have to take us even then he was not ready to budge. i even told him will call the traffic police who was standing near the signal, but still he was not bothered. And guess what when we were having this argument rest of the people were just mere spectators no one came forward to stand by us or help us (with 2 small kids and elderly parents).No one bothered to find another taxi or something i was running around like mad in the evening rush trying to find a taxi, finally i went to the traffic policeman, he was initially not interested as the traffic signal was broken and he was busy routing the traffic but when i literally begged him and told him i had kids and elderly parents did he bother to help.
> This incident really shook me and got me face to face with stark ground reality, this may be a small thing but the very fact that this can happen on a day to day basis was enough deterrent to me for not wanting to move back to India.


The point u mentioned is not a small thing, it touches our national psyche of going out of way to help people u know, but total apathy to strangers. The root of all the nepotism plaguing our country. For me this is a bigger reason to leave rather than the standard of living thing.


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## hello420 (Apr 13, 2012)

I am amused at the idea of Indian parents fear that the kids will grow up with Australian values and hence won't look after them when they are old.

If that is the important thing then better not to have kids. Invest the money in Systematic Investment Plan or buy property and so on.

A child once born is like an arrow launched from the Bow. It has its own destiny. You cannot and should not mess with its life to suit your needs.

And Indian values?
If we were so proud of them then I don't think we would be here. Discussing the way out of the country. 
Or is it that once we are out of the country then practicing the Indian values gives more kick?


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## Bbay2Oz (May 10, 2010)

I'd love my kids to imbibe the best of Indian and Australian Values. Generally good values tend to be universal.


Gosh, don't even get me started on auto and taxi drivers, I was driven (no pun intended!) to almost wringing their necks with my bare hands......lazy #&$%**#*. 

I have a place in Khar and the road is unrecognisable. So crowded you can't even cross the road without risking your life - it is that busy.


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## OzWay (Mar 1, 2012)

hello420 said:


> I am amused at the idea of Indian parents fear that the kids will grow up with Australian values and hence won't look after them when they are old.
> 
> If that is the important thing then better not to have kids. Invest the money in Systematic Investment Plan or buy property and so on.


Well, isn't that a bit too sarcastic 

Accept it or not, due to the unique family system that we have, we Indians do expect love/care from children. Please do not translate that "love/care" as just money and material benefits. It has more to do with the closeness, belonging, etc.
SIP and property investments might give you money to buy 'professional care' from some profit making organization but cannot buy children who love you unconditionally for who you are.

These are my personal views and I am sure majority of the Indians agree with me. Basically, I do not want my children to leave home at 13, tour countries 10 months an year living with someone I never get to know, show me their face once in a year or two, and talk to me on skype when I am nearing my end. 
I might sound selfish but I am proud of my Indian roots and wish to pass them on my kids as well. 

Let me narrate an incident I encountered when I was in canada. I happened to stumble upon a 14-yr old girl sitting outside a gas station looking for 'anyone' to pick her up to downtown and take care of her for that night. She has been kicked out of her BF's house by his mother and was hitch-hiking since then. She doesn't want to go back to her parents b'coz she fears that they will scold. When I discussed this with my colleague, he was not very mused and told me that this is quite common.

This may be off-topic but what I wanted to emphasize is that children are not arrows to be aimed once and released. I am sure none of us want to see our daughters in the above situation. Children need to be under parents' care until they are mature enough and parents ought to be under childrens' care during their last stages of life. They definitely deserve the care.


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## Labeeb Ahmed (Oct 16, 2011)

These cruel incidents happen in South Asia as well. There are sections of society everywhere and the educated class is different from ordinary nuts whether it is West or East. I think that the economic pressures have brought our setup to the same situation we talk about west. 
Do u think your children will serve you when you will grow old? I doubt. If my children r not with me in my old age, its ok if i am in Australia, but extremely difficult if i am here in Pak/India.


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## rafay (Jul 16, 2011)

So far the matter of offspring serving their parents is concerned, i think is totally depends on the way the children being grown up and values they are taught by their parents. it has nothing to do with country. i have seen children molesting their parents in our country and children respecting their peers having grown up abroad.


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## hello420 (Apr 13, 2012)

OzWay said:


> Well, isn't that a bit too sarcastic
> 
> Accept it or not, due to the unique family system that we have, we Indians do expect love/care from children. Please do not translate that "love/care" as just money and material benefits. It has more to do with the closeness, belonging, etc.
> SIP and property investments might give you money to buy 'professional care' from some profit making organization but cannot buy children who love you unconditionally for who you are.
> ...


Ok poetry is not my strong point. But that bow and arrow thing was my crude attempt to summarize Gibran: 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your children are not your children.

They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.

They come through you but not from you,

And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts.

For they have their own thoughts.

You may house their bodies but not their souls,

For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.

For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.

Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;

For even as he loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

And I do not mean that you or me are not going to care for our kids.
But expecting them to care for you?

*That's wrong.*


And if this is one of the reason a parent feels he should not move abroad and deny his offspring a good life. Just so that he can have a better life and care when he grows old?
That is even worse. 

Not saying that I am not currently taking care of my parents but I have no expectations from my kids.

That is why I said that someone of that mentality is better off making investments rather than kids.

And lets be realistic. There is a dark underbelly of so called happy closely knit Indian family. Dreams are crushed. Kids are forced to be and Engineer or Doctor only. The kids with different talents are labelled losers. In the name of family and tradition I still see many young adults forced into unhappy marriages. I know old people who ask me if I know any good old-age center cause they are not getting treated right in the house by their own kids.

That's why I have issues with our great values. And I do not expect that majority of Indians will ever agree with me.


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## auzee_bujji (Jan 25, 2012)

My 2 cents on why to migrate to Australia

Apart all other standard reasons like good financial settlement, life style, etc.

1. Buy one take one free 
We like this right? I like the fact that Newzealand work and living rights that we indirectly get thru Australian PR/citizenship. though we use it or not that is one of the feel good factor and one more coin in your wallet either you use or don't.

2. Path to USA (Secondary Security)
In future if we see any issues in Australian job market or economy, once you become citizen of Australia, you have path to USA to work there thru E3 Visa. Unlike H1b visa, this is not limited based on Quota and also it allows spouse to work. Good thing for IT professionals is that as IT jobs are always in great demand(more openings) in US (compared to Australia)

3. Visa free travel
With Australian passport there are mega list of countries where you can travel without visa (i.e visa on arrival). This is cool thing if you are interested in touring and visiting several countries.

4. Entrepreneur Opportunities
If you have Entrepreneur in you, developed countries like Auzee is good to explore your business ideas, with good support from government and well controlled/no threat environment. 

I support entrepreneurship with a famous saying "If you don't build your dream, some body will hire you to build their dream"

For now my dream is to build someone's dream


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## lalu (Mar 5, 2012)

*cricket*

Apart from obvious reason one of the other reason I have chosen Aus is I can play cricket there and also see lot of live matches


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## bangalg (Apr 22, 2009)

auzee_bujji said:


> My 2 cents on why to migrate to Australia
> 
> Apart all other standard reasons like good financial settlement, life style, etc.
> 
> ...


Hey auzeebujji,
I can related all your points. I was not aware of E3. Always thought as far as being allowed to work in the US is concerned, Australians are as good as Indians. Let me google and see what E3 is about.

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## bangalg (Apr 22, 2009)

Hey auzeebujji,
I can relate to all your points. I was not aware of E3. Always thought as far as being allowed to work in the US is concerned, Australians

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## SGAus (Mar 20, 2012)

E3 visa is a good thing to US which even we studied in 2009. But once you settle in AUS it is again difficult to move to places or to move to countries. Upon aging everyone wants to settle at one place with family.


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## auzee_bujji (Jan 25, 2012)

bangalg said:


> Hey auzeebujji,
> I can relate to all your points. I was not aware of E3. Always thought as far as being allowed to work in the US is concerned, Australians
> 
> Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


Only limitation of E3 is you cannot go for Green card


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## bangalg (Apr 22, 2009)

Oh I see. So one can wove there for work but one has to move back once work is over.


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## cy71_shyam (Jun 8, 2012)

Migration for me has been a long cherished dream.I am a Well paid SAP consultant in india, i love my country but have been coming across all sorts of issues in my country offlate thanks to corruption,inflation and the whole RAT RACE which exists for everything.

I am not migrating for the money but the only hope that australia might give me and my currently 3 month baby a better tomo where i wont have to stand in a rat race.

BTW, i need a PR to study further in the most prestigious B schools there and then find a job without having to wait for a work permit.

PS: My wife is a also a SAP consultant and hence professionally serves us right to be there now...


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## hamster (Jul 2, 2012)

Wonderful thread, good to know thoughts of people.

I am so sick of things falling apart here in India, I just want to run away. By the time one finishes a day and reaches home, he is so frustrated with basic things which can be set right, but nobody wants to go down that road. No driving sense, bad roads, no respect for human life or rights, corruption are some things which are driving us away from our beloved country. Its a dog race.

I am going to be a father soon, my wife is expecting in October. I definitely want my kid to grow in a developed, cultured country where basic rights aren't ignored and above all human life is valued.

I know its not going to be a easy journey but hopefully it will be fruitful.


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## oz_sg10 (Aug 31, 2010)

hamster said:


> Wonderful thread, good to know thoughts of people.
> 
> I am so sick of things falling apart here in India, I just want to run away. By the time one finishes a day and reaches home, he is so frustrated with basic things which can be set right, but nobody wants to go down that road. No driving sense, bad roads, no respect for human life or rights, corruption are some things which are driving us away from our beloved country. Its a dog race.
> 
> ...


Life here is pretty challenging, especially for a new migrant with no credit history etc to start from scratch. But the difference here is that there is a system in place for everything and you can stand up for yourself even though you are a migrant unlike in India where you are screwed if you want to do something like govt matters etc and if you don't know the local language you are done . Traffic is not even worth comparison - roads are obviously awesome and the road culture is really good and accommodating. You also end up driving better cars which you normally would not buy in india, in most cases.


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## spprivate (Aug 22, 2012)

lalu said:


> Apart from obvious reason one of the other reason I have chosen Aus is I can play cricket there and also see lot of live matches


Same with me.My kid is also into cricket and where is the better place in earth than Australia for that. OZ here I come LOL


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## Steve_SAP (Jun 6, 2013)

It was really interesting to read all your views on this topic . 
In most of the replies few things were common (quality of life, future of kids, ect). I agree with these points…. 
As per the theory of evolution all living things (including Humans) in this world are trying to adapt to change in environment or looking for new environment where their offspring can live a good life. For animals it can be a new hunting grounds, whichever species fail to do so will become extinct. 
We are also trying to do the same, in India people who are very rich are living good life (survival of the fittest). They can get anything done with the money. But the problem is to a common middle class man like you and me, we are neither here nor there. Neither, we are not able to adapt to all nonsense happening around our life, nor we have money to make things happen. So our daily life will become hassle…. 
Think about the deficiencies we are going through: water, motor fuel, cooking gas, electricity, ect. Cost of living is going up every month, but salary will increase only once a year that to 2 or 3%. I can’t really think what will be the situation 15 years down the line  can you pay Rs 400 per KG of tomatoes? 
As a homosapien my survival instinct says move out to safer and better place. Sooner or latter I am moving


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