# Lawyer Silver Coast



## Foz

We are coming to the Silver Coast in September to look for a property to buy. I would be very grateful if anyone can recommend a good english speaking Solicitor/Lawyer in the area.


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## omostra06

wait until you know what area you are going to buy in, then get a local lawyer. (before you sign anything)


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## Foz

Thanks for your reply. We will be buying somewhere between Lourinha and Nazare, so ideally a Lawyer around the Caldas da Rainha area would be ideal. 
We would really like to establish a relationship with a Lawyer before we arrive in PT otherwise we are worried that will end up having to take the recommendation of the estate agent that we are buying through, which may not be in our best interest.


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## silvers

This guy comes highly recommended.
mobile 91 345 32 60
work 262 180 232
work fax 262 180 233

home [email protected]

home Rua Frei Fortunato, No 31, 1st
2460-085 Alcobaca
Portugal


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## Foz

Silvers
Thanks very much for the recommendation we will contact him.

If anyone else has any suggestions please let me know as it would be good to have two or three lawyers to compare prices and services etc.

Thanks Foz


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## bart n caz

I can tell you one to keep away from  Will not name and shame on a public forum but will send you a pm.

Have heard good reports from the guy Silvers recommends, please remember though you do get what you pay for so cheap may not always be the best! 
(we found that out at our cost ...)

Good luck with move


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## PETERFC

*Hi Foz*

Hi Foz

As i am not in your area or have anything to really help you but please read the post from the link below. If you read all the post it may help you avoid future problems. I am sure my friend Mr Blueskies will not mind me listing his post much of what you need to avoid is mentioned their. Good luck

Peter the 666 man

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/po...s-living-portugal/27188-promessa-deposit.html


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## siobhanwf

Hi Foz have sent you a PM


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## John999

*lawyer*

You will find plenty of good lawyers/solicitors on Silver coast, you will also find some dodgy ones, I think the best for now is, when you come, have a good look around, and, when you find the property you want, than look for a decent lawyer/solicitor, as near as possible to the area where you will be buying. Distance and time travelling will increase bills. There is so many expats on Silver coast and I am sure that, it will be easier to get 2 or 3 different advices to give you the chance to pick your best deal
John999


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## Mr.Blueskies

Hi Foz,

I have been put through the ringer recently, after a house purchase went bad. I had a lawyer and an agent (both Caldas based) who were supposed to be looking after my best interests but both let me down badly and I ended up in a right mess. What you need to realise Foz, is that even if you engage a lawyer and agent seperately, if they are both based in Caldas they most definately will already be known to one another and will very likely have already done business before. I can name two in Caldas that you DEFINATELY should not use. lol

In fact, you do not need to use a lawyer at all. They are all a complete waste of money in my opinion and they ALL do absolutely nothing that a GOOD and COMPETENT estate agent cannot himself do. I eventually bought a new house through a different agent (again Caldas based) but the big differance was that he had a PROVEN track record and he had done a very good job of work for people who are now personally known to me. He is still happily helping them with day to day stuff two years after they have purchased and for no charge.

When I came here 15 months ago I knew no one. I hooked up with an agent through a pt forum. These people are all UNKNOWN QUANTITIES. My advice now would be to only use an agent who had done a good job of work for people who are personally known to you.


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## omostra06

Just to add to the post above, although it is not a legal requirement to use the services of a Lawyer when purchasing a property in Portugal. I would strongly advice that you do. for the sake of approx 500 euros a good Lawyer can save you a mountain of problems.

It is best to choose an inci registered agent to help find the right property for you, there are a lot of people that are working unlicensed and illegaly here in Portugal, avoid using these people and stick to well recomended agents, that are established and have a good reputation, that way you should avoid the problems that some people experiance here.

Try visiting the region you are interested in and speaking to the locals and expats, you will soon learn the good agents from the bad ones.


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## siobhanwf

Hi Mr. Blueskies
Friends of mine bought recently and dealt directly with the builder...house found.. bought...moved in in 3 days.


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## omostra06

Buying a new build can be a very quick process, as the paperwork should all be upto date and ready to go, you can also go straight to completion without doing a promessa contract, this speeds things up and keeps the Lawyers cost down too,


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## Mr.Blueskies

"That was me Siobhan, P&C lol



Hugs and kisses. xxxxxxx
:eyebrows:


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## siobhanwf

and to you too!!!!


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## siobhanwf

omostra06 said:


> Buying a new build can be a very quick process, as the paperwork should all be upto date and ready to go, you can also go straight to completion without doing a promessa contract, this speeds things up and keeps the Lawyers cost down too,



Wish I'd know this when we bought. Our original lawyer, suggested by the estate agent was C**P


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## Mr.Blueskies

Buying a new build is definately the way to go. There are no sitting tenants, chains,
family disputes, or massive debt on the place that you are not told about. Also all new builds are structurally guaranteed and there will be paperwork for everything so you have assurances that everything is up to specifications and top notch. A very good deal can also be had if the builder is being squeezed by the bank. Such a builder will definately be prepared to negotiate. But only consider a fully completed property and try to ensure that the builder is well established with a good local reputation and not a fly by night who is likely to disappear.

I wasted 6 months and a considerable sum of money on a used property, because the vendor was up to his neck in debt and could not meet his financial obligations or honour the agreement (verbal) that he had made with me. Used houses (depending on age) usually have no insulation, terrible electrics, diabolical plumbing and are not on mains sewage ie (septic tanks) lots of these septic tanks are way too close to the dwelling also.

We are very happy with our new house and I feel that we had a very lucky escape. I often drive past that old place and shudder at what might have been. It would have been a nightmare to put right.
Happy days now.


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## omostra06

buying from a builder has just the same risk of debt on the property as from a private owner (possibly even more risk) regardless of new or old property, builder or private seller, there are checks that need to be done before you sign to buy anything to ensure there is no debt,this is very straight forward process to make these checks.


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## siobhanwf

I agree about the debt on the part of a builder. 
The builder we bought from has in the past few months lost 5 of the properties he has built to debtors. One totally to the bank and three to the people who installed the windows /doors etc in all the properties. 
He has now lost his own personal house to the financas (non payment of IRS and Social Security) 
He has one house left to sell. Friends are renting it at the moment as they have agreed to buy once their house is sold in UK or a mortgage can be arranged. This agreement is set in stone. But then the bank could repossess or the financas step in. 
One other thing of course is that the 5 year warranty is now of no good whatsoever!!!


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## Mr.Blueskies

"Yes Derek, there are checks that need to be done ! The problem is, that 
some lawyers and agents after doing these checks (supposedly on your behalf)
do not feel the need to inform you of their findings.


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## John999

*lawyer*

At the end of the day an estate agent it is the same as a car dealer. They need to sell to get their commission. Some are more honest than others, but it all come down to commission and the need to cash in. If an agent wasn´t honest with you, you can always report him, the same can be done to any dodgy lawyer. The problem is, in general people don´t do it, because if they did, some of them would already been shut. Saying this, there is no need to alarm, if you do your homework right, ask loads of questions, get as many references you can, find your own lawyer/solicitor and make sure whatever document you sign you have a sign translation from them, you will be alright. Don´t just take other expats word for it, in the area where you want to move in, ask the locals, (appliance store, butchers, chemist, local trade), they will be glad to help you and at the end of the day if you move in “town” and you are satisfied, you will be another customer, they will do their best to help. 
john999


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## omostra06

Mr.Blueskies said:


> "Yes Derek, there are checks that need to be done ! The problem is, that
> some lawyers and agents after doing these checks (supposedly on your behalf)
> do not feel the need to inform you of their findings.


thats why forums like these are great, people share information so that hopefully people are aware of what to ask thier agent and lawyers, 

some unproffessional agents, lawyers and owners choose to keep info to themselves that they feel may harm a sale, if the buyer is not aware of what to ask then they could experiance problems, so its good to research all about buying a property on the net, so that you are aware of what to ask, if they are not forthcoming with the info, you can ask them.


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## Mr.Blueskies

To Derek:

Ordinary people who come here and taking into account the language issue and the different system that applies, cannot honestly be expected to be portuguese property gurus and know all of the right questions to ask. Agents and lawyers who conspire to deliberately conceal vital information from their client who not only has engaged them, but also has placed full trust in them because they selfishly think that this information may harm the sale (this information should most certainly harm the sale) if these A/Holes were doing their jobs and not just leading people up the garden path and into a pile of ****e just solely so that they can get their full fee and commission, these are very sad despicable creatures and you Derek know who I am refering to very well.

I also see that this same used house is now back on the market again and this time with "a different agency" and with an asking price of €15,000 more than last time.

To John 999.
Who can I report this agent to John ? Despite claiming to be a registered agent and quoting his registered no. with all of his posts on another pt forum, it turned out that he was not registered at all. Neither was his name going to appear on the deed (this was to ensure that he could not be linked to the sale when everything went pear shaped) plus he had no insurance cover.


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## silvers

Hi Setanta,
Firstly this is not a dig at you, don't hunt me down! I am not a wabbit!!!
Some people come here and leave their brains back in the UK. They do stupid things, that they would never dream of doing back home, so why do it here? They buy houses paying cash, without surveys, signing bits of paper in languages they do not understand. In general, they trust a stranger wayyyyyyy toooooooo much. That's why my Portuguese wife and I have offered to help so many people off forums like this one. We have never charged anybody anything for this.
I feel that the potential buyer needs someone to pull in the reins a little, that's what we do.
If you wish to report the bogus agent, go to a respectable agency, and ask there. They will be only too happy to get an unregistered agent off the radar.


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## omostra06

Mr.Blueskies said:


> To Derek:
> 
> Ordinary people who come here and taking into account the language issue and the different system that applies, cannot honestly be expected to be portuguese property gurus and know all of the right questions to ask. Agents and lawyers who conspire to deliberately conceal vital information from their client who not only has engaged them, but also has placed full trust in them because they selfishly think that this information may harm the sale (this information should most certainly harm the sale) if these A/Holes were doing their jobs and not just leading people up the garden path and into a pile of ****e just solely so that they can get their full fee and commission, these are very sad despicable creatures and you Derek know who I am refering to very well.
> 
> I also see that this same used house is now back on the market again and this time with "a different agency" and with an asking price of €15,000 more than last time.


I do indeed know who you are talking about because you have told me who you bought through and which Lawyer you used during our many pm messages where you were asking for advice on the matter. 
Some people do experiance problems when buying, I know in your case you told me that you had lots of problems with the person you employed, that led to the sale not going through, You did do things a bit different from a normal purchase, you found an individual and asked him to help you buy a house that you had found yourself. (not that this should have caused any problems!) the normal more common way of buying a house is to find an agency and then let them help you find a suitable property.

Inci registered agents have strict rules to follow and should offer a good service leading to a purchase going smoothly. individual sales people/agents not working for a inci registered company have no one to answer to, not inci or thier employers. 
if they have someone controling thier sale, like a manager or agency owner, which is normally what happens, it is very unlikely that things will be allowed to go wrong, or things will be not explained. 
if some individaual was to try to not do a good job, or not give important info to the buyer, his/her manager would spot it and resolve any issue. thats how it works with larger agencies that employ lots of individual sales people, they are controled and closely watched to insure that all the inci rules are followed. 

As an example,
We have in the past had several new employees that i have had to "let go" due to them still trying to work to the lower standards they picked up at previous agencies they worked for. we do monitor all our people to ensure they do a good honest job and maintain the standard we set, if they dont meet them they are out. 

The person you employed to help buy your house was either at the time working for an agency that didnt control the standard of his work, or at the time he was operating on his own and not working for an agency.

it comes right back to us always saying to people use an agency with a good reputation, one that is inci registered, ask around the locals, the forums etc and see who gets good reports.

My point about the forums being a good way of people learning what to ask, is a valid one. when people first think about moving to Portugal or any other place. they probably know very little about the laws relating to property/purchase and the purchasing process, forums like these are a great way of learning info, tips, things to do, things to avoid. anyone reading through the info on here and available elsewhere on the web, will pick up a lot of info,

even if they dont become property gurus, they will be more informed and more confident to tackle the buying a propery process armed with the info they have learned, than if they just went blindly in. so the forums are very helpful to buyers.


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## Mr.Blueskies

Hi Silvers,

"You might be very surprised if I was to tell you who this unregistered agent is now working for !

:confused2:


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## silvers

Who is that? I would like to know for my own dabblings.


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## PETERFC

*Reply*

Hi All

Name and shame is one thing but if that person is now with a well respected agent would it not create a problem the good agent does not deserve to have to deal with. 

Peter


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## Jamesie

Foz said:


> We are coming to the Silver Coast in September to look for a property to buy. I would be very grateful if anyone can recommend a good english speaking Solicitor/Lawyer in the area.


Hi,
We know a few lawyers in the area who we use and can recommend.
They are located in :
Figueira da Foz
Lousa
Miranda do Corvo.

Regards,


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## Mr.Blueskies

Hi Peter,

Surely this must depend on how one looks at things ? Well respected agents can be duped by chancers and rogues just like the rest of us and no one
should or really could hold that against them. But it would surely be a different matter would it not, if a well respected agent was to still employ such an individual AFTER having been made fully aware of the facts and about this individuals modus operandi ?

Surely this would be enough to cause alarm bells to ring and red lights
(Peter) to flash ?

:confused2:


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## Mr.Blueskies

"I trust that this has answered your question James ! You are a clever guy.


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## silvers

I now know who you are talking about. Hmmmmmmm.


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## PETERFC

*Reply*

Hi Mr.Blueskies

I can understand if what has happened to you had happened to me i would want revenge. But at the cost to an agent who has worked hard his good name could be spoilt and does he deserve that. You know some of what has happened to me and i would be very vengeful. I would want revenge. 

Something during my working life i have believed is that hurt me and you have to take what comes. 

It's your call.

Peter


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## omostra06

Michael Agostinho has worked for us for about one year now, we as his current employer have no reason to sack Michael, (even though you strongly feel we should) he has done nothing wrong while working for us, if he does then we will deal with it, as applies to all our employees, he has many happy clients. I know because i talk to them. until such times as i have a problem with any of our staff not working to the very high standard we insist on, i will not take action because of something that happend with a previous company and customer. you are not a customer of our company, the agent you asked to help you was not connected to our comapany. I do not know all the facts relating to your problems around this purchase, it is not~my business, please dont try to force it onto me it has nothing to do with me.

but what we are really saying here is,
if someone is working for a company and a customer is not happy with the service they recieve from him. he then leaves that company and later starts working for another totally seperate company, who are much more proffessional and keep all thier employees in check, this new company is responsible for something that happend in the past between the person and a customer before he even worked for them

as an example of how this thinking doesnt work...
Iam glad i didnt throw all my newspapers away when i was a paperboy, otherwise every company i worked for over the next 30 years would be held responsible for my actions back then......doesnt make sence.

I have said to you before many times, if you have a problem with an agent you should complain to inci and his employer, at the time. not try to make suggestions that a company that he now works for one year later has in some way done something wrong.

we can all clearly see that you are upset and angry at this whole episode, but please direct that anger where it belongs, not at a company that have done nothing wrong, who have an excellent reputation, work very hard indeed to look after thier customers, and have nothing to do with what happend to you in the past.


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## Mr.Blueskies

"All very pot and kettleish in my opinion !!!!


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## John999

*lawyer*



Mr.Blueskies said:


> To Derek:
> 
> Ordinary people who come here and taking into account the language issue and the different system that applies, cannot honestly be expected to be portuguese property gurus and know all of the right questions to ask. Agents and lawyers who conspire to deliberately conceal vital information from their client who not only has engaged them, but also has placed full trust in them because they selfishly think that this information may harm the sale (this information should most certainly harm the sale) if these A/Holes were doing their jobs and not just leading people up the garden path and into a pile of ****e just solely so that they can get their full fee and commission, these are very sad despicable creatures and you Derek know who I am refering to very well.
> 
> I also see that this same used house is now back on the market again and this time with "a different agency" and with an asking price of €15,000 more than last time.
> 
> To John 999.
> Who can I report this agent to John ? Despite claiming to be a registered agent and quoting his registered no. with all of his posts on another pt forum, it turned out that he was not registered at all. Neither was his name going to appear on the deed (this was to ensure that he could not be linked to the sale when everything went pear shaped) plus he had no insurance cover.


Hi Mr. Blueskies
In first place let me tell you that is a current situation when you by a property trough an estate agent, that you will get a document of that agency with the deposit you put down and sign by you and the seller, but when you go for completion, (Escritura), the majority of the agencies don´t come named on that completion, in general there is a clause in the “Escritoire” saying that no middle person was involved in the sale. That saves a lot of money to the agent regarding the tax man. Where to complain? Go to the agency where the agent was working for and ask for the complains book, and make a written complain about the agency, then with your copy of the complain, (1st of the pages), You get the address from the cover of the complaints book, and send a copy of your complain with an attached letter where you will develop your complain to the maximum extend, put everything down. If the agency says that they have no complains book, do as a friend of mine did. Go to the nearest Police, or GNR station, and put a complaint regarding the agency which has refused the complaints book. After you made that complain ask them to go with you to the agency and I guaranty that the book will turn up. Join a copy of the Police complaint to your complaint. Remember that the agency is responsible for whatever work their staff does. If you don´t know what agency that agent was working to, but you have is details and know is whereabouts, report him to INCI and let them deal with the situation. You must have some sort of paper/document regarding that deal. The INCI address is: 
INCI
Av.Júlio Dinis, nº11
1069-010 Lisboa 
Hope this helps you
John999


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## omostra06

Mr.Blueskies said:


> "All very pot and kettleish in my opinion !!!!


I have no idea what you mean by that statement, i have explained to you my position on this, its nothing to do with my company!

further to think that before i knew who you were buying from i was offering you advice and help in this matter (as well as right up until a few weeks ago) as i dont want to see anyone having problems. i offered this help and advice to you free of charge as i do to many others.

To now think that the thanks you are giving me for this advice is to in some way try to tarnish my reputation and try to damage the reputation of my company over something that has nothing what so ever to do with me is in fact insulting.

I see what you are trying to do, you think by making these types of statements you are applying pressure for me to sack an employee, because this is what you want me to do is it not?

well if its ok with you i will run my business they way i want to run my business, and employ, or sack who i choose without pressure from strangers!
i advice you keep your business to yourself too.

take the advice i have offered you many times and others have offered you many times, make a complaint to the relavant people. dont just lash out at however you think may help your cause. doing this may get you in more trouble, portugal does have strict slander laws!


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## John999

*lawyer*

Hi do agree with Derek, Blueskies. It is nothing to do with him. There are always 2 sides for a story. It is up to you to clean your “mess”. Involving third parts who have nothing to do with the situation, can backfire at you
John999


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## Mr.Blueskies

"Nowhere on this thread have I said that your agency Derek had any involvement in this sale! In fact I have named no one at any time. However, I do have every right to speak about my experience on an open forum and what has happened to me in the hope that others may be able to learn from it.

The fact that this guy now works for your agency is neither here nor there. Like you say, it is your agency and business Derek so do run it as you see fit.


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## Mr.Blueskies

"Also, I have never told you to sack anyone ! I only gave you this agents name by pm after you had asked me for it, on the off chance that you knew him.


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## omostra06

You were trying to insinuate the person you did business with in the past, was in some way unprofessional and by tarring everyone with the same brush you were trying to imply my company must be just as bad, as he is now in our employ. 

This is what I take issue with. Your use of statements like 'pots and kettles' and 'red lights and alarm bells' show this is exactly how you felt and this is the impression you wanted to give, obviously to get some reaction.

This of course is your opinion and you are entitled to voice it and I encourage people to voice their opinions and share their experiences good or bad, as you are very well aware as I am known to you from various forums over several years.

I appreciate you have finally acknowledged my company has nothing to do with the problems you experienced when trying to buy a house. As you know I tried my best to offer you advice and help on this matter as I do with many others on this forum and other forums. 

Dont forget I have now heard both sides of this story and I still chose to stay impartial. We still have Michael in our employment as we have no issue what so ever with the standard of his work while working for us and I still offer you impartial advice. 

As you well know I have often suggested if you feel unhappy make a complaint to the relevant people. I also offered you various suggestions on how to help resolve your problems without any loss of money. 

You see I am able to take both parties at face value and give both the benefit of the doubt, not tarring everyone with the same brush.

Its a pity you are unable to do the same.


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## Mr.Blueskies

I have never said at any point that your company was in any way involved with the problems that I experienced, simply because it was not. However, if one looks at the link posted by Peter, which shows the advice that you gave to me previously and when this situation was unfolding you said, [ In my experience if everyone, lawyer,estate agent etc want 50% at the promessa which is not normal, they might know something that you don't about the property or the owner...] [This way if/when it all goes wrong they have all been paid, even if the sale does not complete] [Normally the lawyer and agent will wait until after completion to get paid, this sounds like they were not expecting this sale to go through] These are all your own words Derek and this is how it happened.

So this I would suggest does point to the people who I did business with in the past, being unprofessional. It is not like I have just made it all up to cause trouble. I have every right to be annoyed about what happened. It is unfortunate that as the present employer and by association that you and your agency were indirectly also drawn into this.

Obviously, this comes with the territory and is part and parcel of being in the estate agency business.


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## omostra06

Mr.Blueskies said:


> [ In my experience if everyone, lawyer,estate agent etc want 50% at the promessa which is not normal, they might know something that you don't about the property or the owner...] [This way if/when it all goes wrong they have all been paid, even if the sale does not complete] [Normally the lawyer and agent will wait until after completion to get paid, this sounds like they were not expecting this sale to go through] These are all your own words Derek and this is how it happend.


Here are some more of my own words as a post note to the above advice I offered you in the quote...

"they might know something that you don't about the property or the owner.." 
I would like to add to this statement....."or the buyer!"

perhaps your actions led them to think you would pull out of the sale, perhaps they guessed at the start that you would never complete the purchase...oh and that did happen didnt it! it was you that pulled out was it not?

see there are always two sides to everything!!

I dont intend to waste any more of my time on this subject, 
I am happy to offer help or advice to anyone that wants it....but iam not going to waste any more time talking to you about your problem.


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## Mr.Blueskies

"Grasping at straws, now Derek!

The buyer was a cash buyer. The lawyer requested and received half of her fee at the promessa, which she said was normal procedure. "Have receipt for this ! She also requested that I send all of the fees connected with the purchase weeks before the signing, which I did. "Have receipts for that also !
Hardly the actions of a timewaster and someone who was not serious about buying the place ?

My daughter had also now been enrolled at the school nearest to this house. The vendor next gave me a signing date for early July because he knew I was working to a time scale and really needed to get the inside and outside work done so that I could move in with all work completed by the end of August when I was due to vacate the rented house which was 30km from the school. 

Now with a definate signing date, wifes brother (structural engineer) now comes from Dubai to oversee this project and ensure that the work is done properly and for a fair price after the rip off prices that I had been quoted. The vendor next cancells the signing date and my brother in law can now do nothing.
Lawyer now suggests that I should just go ahead and do all of the work anyway before the signing.  I do not. Brother in law returns to Dudai after eight weeks, nothing done. Work crew that had been assembled and ready to go after the signing are now all gone to do other things.

What good was this used house now going to be with my project manager gone and the work crew also ? School now due to commence in 10 days time. 

But then, I have already told you all of this haven't I. ?


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## omostra06

Mr.Blueskies said:


> "Grasping at straws, now Derek!
> 
> The buyer was a cash buyer. The lawyer requested and received half of her fee at the promessa, which she said was normal procedure. "Have receipt for this ! She also requested that I send all of the fees connected with the purchase weeks before the signing, which I did. "Have receipts for that also !
> Hardly the actions of a timewaster and someone who was not serious about buying the place ?
> 
> My daughter had also now been enrolled at the school nearest to this house. The vendor next gave me a signing date for early July because he knew I was working to a time scale and really needed to get the inside and outside work done so that I could move in with all work completed by the end of August when I was due to vacate the rented house which was 30km from the school.
> 
> Now with a definate signing date, wifes brother (structural engineer) now comes from Dubai to oversee this project and ensure that the work is done properly and for a fair price after the rip off prices that I had been quoted. The vendor next cancells the signing date and my brother in law can now do nothing.
> Lawyer now suggests that I should just go ahead and do all of the work anyway before the signing.  I do not. Brother in law returns to Dudai after eight weeks, nothing done. Work crew that had been assembled and ready to go after the signing are now all gone to do other things.
> 
> What good was this used house now going to be with my project manager gone and the work crew also ? School now due to commence in 10 days time.
> 
> But then, I have already told you all of this haven't I. ?




Exactly. 

Your personal circumstances with your build team leaving led you to change your mind about buying the house. You say it yourself above. 

So you made the decision to pull out and not buy this house. It was your choice, you were fully aware it would lead to you losing your deposit. 

I advised you not to do this at the time. I even explained to you there was a way that you would get your deposit back and still not have to buy the house. You chose to ignore this and just pull out of the sale.

This is of course your choice. You can buy or not buy. Lose your deposit or not lose your deposit. But when your choice leads you to lose money, leaving you feeling bitter and angry, then don't blame everyone and anyone around you as it was your decision which has lead to the situation you are in.

We can all see how you are dealing with this, you are blaming the agent, blaming the lawyer and even recently blaming a totally separate agent, everyone else but you, whom made the decision.

We can of course go back and forward for weeks like this, but I don't intend on wasting any more time on you. I would suggest you do the same and look forward and get on with your new life in Portugal.


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Oh,
So do you feel then that all of this is perfectly acceptable behaviour and treatment and A ok ? Is this the sort of thing that lots of people can expect to experience when buying here ? 

Perhaps others may also like to share their experiences with us ? "Come on guys don't be shy ! This information will be of value to others. Surely this is the most important point.


----------



## robc

I am not often motivated to put pen to paper but this ongoing dialogue has finally prompted me to do so.

We have a parcel of Land on the Silver Coast that we intend to build a house on (time, exchange rates and credit crunch permitting). But just because you are in a foreign country does not mean you leave your brain behind. 
I cannot think of any circumstance where if I was working to a deadline I would not want the whole thing very clearly mapped out.

Mr Blueskies, without wishing to prompt a tirade in response, can I just ask a couple of questions......

Did you not stop and think that maybe given the time deadline you were working to it would be sensible to purchase a property that was ready for immediate occupancy?

Any property that requires work will generally need the intervention of 3rd parties, this will inevitably mean delays.........this is true of Portugal, UK, Middle East, pretty much anywhere and everywhere in the world. 

Why did you think this was going to be different?

I wish you well on your travails in Portugal but it seems to me that perhaps you ought to take a long hard look in the mirror first, then if you like what you see maybe you can start blaming others.

Regards

Rob

p.s. Yes we are having horrendous problems with our plans but that is another story


----------



## PETERFC

*Hi Rob*

Hi Rob 

You said that "Yes we are having horrendous problems with our plans but that is another story"

I am in the Uk and am looking to buy in Central Portugal. I am sorry to hear that you have problems. Many people looking to move to Portugal can learn a lot from people like yourself. 

Could you start a post about your experiences that would allow people like me not to make the mistakes of yourself and of others.

I mean no offense suggesting this if i have i am sorry.

Peter


----------



## robc

PETERFC said:


> Hi Rob
> 
> You said that "Yes we are having horrendous problems with our plans but that is another story"
> 
> I am in the Uk and am looking to buy in Central Portugal. I am sorry to hear that you have problems. Many people looking to move to Portugal can learn a lot from people like yourself.
> 
> Could you start a post about your experiences that would allow people like me not to make the mistakes of yourself and of others.
> 
> I mean no offense suggesting this if i have i am sorry.
> 
> Peter


Peter 

I know that no offense was intended. I am not entirely sure that opening a thread on that issue would prove to be all that valuable to others looking to move to Portugal.

My issue is with the fact that to get anything done in Portugal seems to take ages, we were ready for planning delays at the Municipality,however, the complete lack of understanding of the need for deliverable timescales by all the Portuguese people who are involved in my project is simply staggering. 
For example, I am waiting for some paperwork now, it is ready, I have been told that, all it needs is to be scanned in and emailed to me. This has so far taken a month, and it still has not happened. 

I, and I stress this is only my opinion, feel that until such time as rogue agents/lawyers/builders are "named and shamed" then things are not likely to improve. (as should be the case in the UK)

HTH

Rob


----------



## PETERFC

*Reply*

Hi Rob

I wish to keep away from the present debate but to learn from the experience of others.

I do understand your comments and thanks for the reply. I will start a post in the hope that others who have been dogged with problems will pass on there advice so that we still looking to move can gain from others stories.

Rob thanks mate.

Peter


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Hi Robc,
Your question is a valid one. The vendor had assured me at the promessa, that although I had asked for a six month promessa (this was because I had not yet sold my house) that if I sold early, which is what I fully expected to do, that I could complete as soon as I had the money to do so. I was here 24/7 at this time and was renting a house for one year. 

I next had the money to complete in mid June and now advised him of this. This still gave me three months to get everything done, which was more than adequate. The vendor now moved the goal posts and now started to just tell me lies and to string me along for months. He also gave me definate signing dates which he later cancelled.

Don't honestly see how I could have foreseen this to be honest.
As I have said already, I had the project manager and work crew ready to go, so no delays on that score. Sorry to hear about your own situation and problems and I hope that you can resolve them soon. People sometimes ask " why do people not just complain and get these rogue lawyers and agents shut down !
For one, they are very well protected and people all come here in the hope of finding a quiet life. I also think that one must take into consideration the big picture and the combined upheaval and stress that people have gone through before arriving here. 

Leaving ones country of origin, family and friends is a big life changing experience. Couple that with selling one house and now trying to buy another. The combined effect of all three, can knock the stuffing out of you. Next, a legal battle with crooks, cowboys and rogues who are already well established here and who can speak the language, I would say puts you at a very distinct disadvantage.


----------



## John999

*lawyer*

Hi Blueskies
It is obvious that you started with the wrong foot, I don´t know the whole story but it sounds that you was stubborn enough do don´t take valid advice from people who was trying to help you. Arrogance can be expensive and for what I am reading, you are the only person to blame regarding your lost. I do agree that this matter is going a bit too much… Get on with your life and hopefully you have learnt something for the future. Share your experience with others, so they don´t make the same mistakes you did
John999


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Hi John999,

I agree that I did start on the wrong foot. By trusting and using an agent who turned out not to be inci registered and who had no insurance or agency backing was a very big mistake. This left my ass unprotected and blowing in the wind.

But how can this be, when one is misled by another (now be my own fault and a sign of arrogance on my part) I just cannot understand how you can possibly come to that conclusion ?


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Derek himself has stated in black and white, that when agents and lawyers want paying at the promessa stage that this is both shifty and suspect.
People who claim to be inci registered when they are not, thats perfectly ok John
with you also, if would seem. I am to blame for all of this am I John ?


Your not an estate agent by any chance ?


----------



## John999

*lawyer*



Mr.Blueskies said:


> Hi John999,
> 
> I agree that I did start on the wrong foot. By trusting and using an agent who turned out not to be inci registered and who had no insurance or agency backing was a very big mistake. This left my ass unprotected and blowing in the wind.
> 
> But how can this be, when one is misled by another (now be my own fault and a sign of arrogance on my part) I just cannot understand how you can possibly come to that conclusion ?


Reading omostra06 post today at 08:34am to you shows that you had options to resolve your situation which you decided to ignore and just pulled out of the business, losing everything you had already paid for. Like I said I don´t know the all story, but reading the exchange messages between you and Derek, on this thread, it looks to me that you made some bad decisions, and the last one, (pulling out), has cost you some money. Why did you ignore the advices of someone you apparently respect, and obviously knows a lot more about that matter than yourself? To me that was your biggest mistake. Been took for a ride is one thing, but let them get away with murder, and giving up on what was yours , it looks to me that it was a choice you made
John999


----------



## John999

*lawyer*



Mr.Blueskies said:


> Derek himself has stated in black and white, that when agents and lawyers want paying at the promessa stage that this is both shifty and suspect.
> People who claim to be inci registered when they are not, thats perfectly ok John
> with you also, if would seem. I am to blame for all of this am I John ?
> 
> 
> Your not an estate agent by any chance ?


No I am not, but I know a few, if you are interested


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

"Are they i.n.c.i. registered ?


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Hi Peter,

Just saw something that may be of interest to you ? Just take a look at John 999s profile page. If you look at visitor messages, you will see that he has been talking to a Veronica about someone named Chris. Click on conversation and you can read what he said.

Not saying that this is your Chris in spain (The timber frame guy) but perhaps you need to investigate further ? Not wise to trust anyone here.

Paul.


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Thought this was going as a pm. Oops.


----------



## John999

Mr.Blueskies said:


> "Are they i.n.c.i. registered ?


I suppose so, never really bothered with that until I started coming on this forum. Did some research and I found that there is “thousands” of INCI registered State Agents in this country. It is pretty simple, and only costs a few Euros to become one. The other thing I have learn is that doesn´t give you any guaranties that you don´t get reaped off. The Courts and the legal system in this country take so long to take action that they can stay in business years before you can make them pay. That doesn´t mean that you should give up of any claim or charges against anyone who reaps you off. World wild it is a buyer’s market, I think if I say that there is 20 properties for sale for every actual buyer, I wouldn´t be far from the reality, that puts a lot more pressure on the agent to make the sale. The 5/6% commission basis the agent gets, generally, for every sale, the actual credit crunch and the need to stay in business, probably will make some of doe’s agents to be less careful to certain details. I don´t know, I am just guessing here. A close friend of us bough is house, trough an INCI state agent, from a local builder. House finished, “escritoire” done after all the checks made, (electric, gas, phone, water, habitation license from the local council, the whole nine yards). He has a few problems with certain details of the materials used, and the problems started some time ago. The property is still under the 5 years guaranty, so before they expire he took some actions. He has just received a letter from the INCI saying that this builder doesn´t have a builder’s license, (alvara). We are talking about a builder who have done work all around Silver Coast and has his properties for sale at different agencies. This builder has also had a big interview with one of the most popular property magazines in the country, with a big article in 2008. We are talking about, “Casas de Portugal” magazine. My friend is waiting for the council to explain, how they produced a habitation license to his property under these circumstances, I will let you know the outcome
John999


----------



## PETERFC

*Reply*

Ha Ha 

I did that last week, i used my daughters account on expats to send a PM to someone in Gois and sent as a post.

Guess who got banned again by simon. My daughter's fault for letting me use her laptop while she was away i was updating her system.

Must be a full time job watching for me. Pity he does not know my Dongle IP address 

Have to stop signing as Peter

Peter


----------



## PETERFC

*Reply*

Hi John

You say "I suppose so, never really bothered with that until I started coming on this forum. Did some research and I found that there is “thousands” of INCI registered State Agents in this country. It is pretty simple, and only costs a few Euros to become one. The other thing I have learn is that doesn´t give you any guaranties that you don´t get reaped off"

I have friends who are INCI registered and i do know from experience how hard it is to get registered. First they have to study and take exams all in Portuguese. My friend and her work partner had to learn Portuguese to pass the exams. You also say "that doesn´t give you any guaranties that you don´t get reaped off" i think you need to do some research and then come back and say you are sorry for what you said that is incorrect. I am sure Derek will have something to say.

Peter


----------



## PETERFC

*Reply*

Hi Mr Blueskies

First to the Moderators there is no mention of links in the below text or any company name.

So it's now time to have a go at Chris

Chris is a Timber Frame manufacturer in the UK & Portugal. Chris runs a very successful company and is committed to using the best of today's technology below is a little information from his site. There are no links as it is not my intention to advertise. There is a link to a trade association to prove the information is accurate.

John i would ask could we please keep to topic instead of making claims that are not correct/ accurate.

Peter 

List of Members - UK Timber Frame Association

The Hybrid Home
(A TRULY AFFORDABLE ALL YEAR ROUND COMFORTABLE HOME)

This is an affordable and unique opportunity to own a home unlike anything else on the market today. The Hybrid Home is manufactured to exactly the same specification as a quality engineered Timber Frame building, costing considerably more. This is not a Wooden House or a Log Cabin it is a house based on traditional building regulations yet incorporates 21st century engineered finishes.

Timber Frame buildings include: Hotels - Schools - Apartment Blocks - Offices - Nursing Homes In fact any building can be of a Timber Frame Construction.


THE BENEFITS OF THE HYBRID HOUSE

* Can be installed in inaccessible areas where other types of building can't be.
* Can be installed on poor ground conditions.
* Very low cost compared to other systems.
* Permanent housing or Leisure building.
* Fully insulated with Cavity Walls.
* Traditional roof superstructure and fully Insulated.
* Floors insulated.
* Modular dimensions allow choice of size and easily extendable.
* Supply only or Supply and Erect.
* Can be delivered within 21 days of placing order.
* Not imported from Eastern Europe therefore quality is guaranteed.
* All timbers are treated against insect attack and fungal decay.
* In many cases, no concrete raft is required.
* Choice of internal layout.
* You choose window and door locations for the best location views.
* Windows/Door sizes and styles can be added to base kit.
* Damp Courses and Membranes built in as standard.
* Warm in Winter and Cool in Summer.
* No condensation or internal damp.
* Perfect as holiday camping rentals or occupy all year round.
* As secure as a traditional house.
* Low heat loss and little sound travel.
* Extra components are available to base kit.
* Made in Portugal or UK factory.
* External wall can be finished in Stone, Brick, Render or Cladding .


We supply bespoke Timber Frame buildings and Timber Engineered components throughout Europe. We can supply and erect any type of building up to 7 floors high from single houses to apartment blocks and hotels to schools. All the components manufactured and supplied by us meet and often beat the standards laid down throughout the EU. We have bases in UK – Portugal – Spain – Gibraltar and France and can supply and erect in other countries within the EU. Timber Frame is perfect for multi-unit sites, the self-builder and any commercial or industrial application. Just look at some of the benefits of choosing the Timber Frame building route

* Very fast erecting time – leading to early occupation.
* Financial saving over other methods.
* Engineered products mean no site errors.
* Meets the demand of Eurocode 5 EN 1995.
* Can achieve zero carbon emission status.
* High insulation levels mean lower fuel costs.
* Accepted modern method of construction worldwide.
* 70% of all low-rise buildings in the developed world are timber frame constructed.
* All wood used is purchased from sustainable and renewable sources.
* All buildings supplied have clear air cavity, DPC and engineered floor systems.
* No drying out time delays, cracking or shrinkage.
* Structural calculations issued on each individual project.
* Engineered floor joists allow services to be installed in 1 day
* Engineered Roof Trusses allow a room in roof option at little extra cost.
* Ideal on poor ground conditions where weight is a problem.
* Build progress is not weather dependent.


----------



## John999

*lawyer*

Well Peter, I am sorry to say but you are wrong. A friend of mine, made a website to advertise local properties, in general, from builders who have sold several properties on Silver Coast, and his solicitor have arranged to sort that out, and as far as I know it has been a straight foreword process. I might forget to say that he is Portuguese. Also that friend was approached by one of your friends in Gois, someone you still “advertise” as an expert on timber frame, and guess what he is a fraud!! I believe you know who I am talking about. I have helped this person to “dig” CT background and we only found, (it is true that he knows about the subject), that he has left a trail behind of dodgy business. I am sure you will have a look now and again to be website, and some of the products he was advertising have disappear, still under construction pages, because he was trying to sell products that never belong to him and worst than that he was calling “thieves” to the real manufactures. Not long ago I saw you advertising something about Gois been Timber Frame friendly, guess what?? They never eared about the factory your friend was supposed to have built in that piece of land he advertised. I could carry on and on, but I believe it isn´t necessary. I am sure I proved my point already. You might need to start be more careful to the people you call “friend”. Some of the information about him was passed by me to some of the moderators on this forum, months ago. It is funny he hasn´t post a single post since then
John999


----------



## John999

*lawyer*

Just to finish this subject Peter, you say:
“Chris is a Timber Frame manufacturer in the UK & Portugal. Chris runs a very successful company and is committed to using the best of today's technology below is a little information from his site. There are no links as it is not my intention to advertise. There is a link to a trade association to prove the information is accurate.
John I would ask could we please keep to topic instead of making claims that are not correct/ accurate.”

Your friend company only exists since April 2009, at the time he was already living in Portugal, after leaving Spain in a “rush”, I don´t understand how or where do you get the “successful company”. Anyway if anyone is considering doing business with this company and wants to know who they really are, if my friend allows me to, I will be able to pass some of the information and where to confirm it, not only in the UK but also in Spain. That will have to be done on a PM base because this is the last time I will touch this subject on this forum
John999


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

"Have I just opened another big can of worms ? 

"Is there anyone here on the level ? 

"Only trying to help ! 


:boxing:


----------



## PETERFC

*Reply*

Hi Mr blueskies

Maybe a good idea to start a post " If you want to Crucify someone Post here " gloves off no holds barred.

Maybe then a normal post can be run as such,

?????

Peter


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

"Think I would prefer to take my chances and just tiptoe through a 
minefield !

Time now for my cocoa and away to bed. 

"Sweet dreams all !
ZZZZZzzzzzz


----------



## John999

*lawyer*

There may be trouble ahead!


----------



## jellybean

silvers said:


> This guy comes highly recommended.
> mobile 91 345 32 60
> work 262 180 232
> work fax 262 180 233
> 
> home [email protected]
> 
> home Rua Frei Fortunato, No 31, 1st
> 2460-085 Alcobaca
> Portugal


Gosh! I haven't visited this forum for a while and it seems I've been missing all the fun! Poor Foz must be having second thoughts about the whole thing! 

But don't Foz, it really is wonderful here and I can also recommend the lawyer Rafael who goes the extra mile on your behalf. He also has an office in Caldas. Buying a house here isn't straight forward so it is best to use a lawyer in my opinion and as we took the chance and didn't rent here first, I gave Rafael full powers of attorney to sign papers etc. on my behalf and everything has been fine. Infact Rafael is now helping my to get my car registered here in Portugal and we have just received our tax exemption notice from customs! YIPPEE!!!:clap2:

Also, buying a new build might be easier but they don't appeal to everyone. I love my old creaky typically portuguese cottage with it's blue and white tiles around the windows and garden full of mature fruit trees. Tis wonderful 

Good luck with your move Foz


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

"Wots happened to Foz ? 

"I'm reviewing the situation ! "Think I better, think it out again !


:eyebrows:


----------



## HappyasLarry

robc said:


> I am not often motivated to put pen to paper but this ongoing dialogue has finally prompted me to do so.
> 
> We have a parcel of Land on the Silver Coast that we intend to build a house on (time, exchange rates and credit crunch permitting). But just because you are in a foreign country does not mean you leave your brain behind.
> I cannot think of any circumstance where if I was working to a deadline I would not want the whole thing very clearly mapped out.
> 
> Mr Blueskies, without wishing to prompt a tirade in response, can I just ask a couple of questions......
> 
> Did you not stop and think that maybe given the time deadline you were working to it would be sensible to purchase a property that was ready for immediate occupancy?
> 
> Any property that requires work will generally need the intervention of 3rd parties, this will inevitably mean delays.........this is true of Portugal, UK, Middle East, pretty much anywhere and everywhere in the world.
> 
> Why did you think this was going to be different?
> 
> I wish you well on your travails in Portugal but it seems to me that perhaps you ought to take a long hard look in the mirror first, then if you like what you see maybe you can start blaming others.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Rob
> 
> p.s. Yes we are having horrendous problems with our plans but that is another story


For someone who doesn't like to get involved Rob you seem to like stirring things!


----------



## robc

HappyasLarry said:


> For someone who doesn't like to get involved Rob you seem to like stirring things!


Ooooooo are you sure 

I would liken myself to a caped crusader looking to right the wrongs 

I may be wrong of course...................

Rob


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

A caped crusader.  Is your name Zorro ?


----------



## robc

Mr.Blueskies said:


> A caped crusader.  Is your name Zorro ?


Well sort of 

It is one of my aliases

Rob (Zorro)


----------



## HappyasLarry

who was in the original Zorro films? I used to love watching those old movies..was it tryone power?


----------



## robc

HappyasLarry said:


> who was in the original Zorro films? I used to love watching those old movies..was it tryone power?


I think it was.................I cannot be sure though ..............sort of swash buckling role that would have suited Errol Flynn too.


----------



## HappyasLarry

robc said:


> I think it was.................I cannot be sure though ..............sort of swash buckling role that would have suited Errol Flynn too.


just for you RobC and if you look like Antonio Banderes I will be right round for my night night cocoa and a back rub with a broken bottle as they say in Lancy!!


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Basil Rathbone was always lurking in the shadows, about to back stab someone !


----------



## HappyasLarry

Mr.Blueskies said:


> Basil Rathbone was always lurking in the shadows, about to back stab someone !


Was he the one from the Sherlock Holmes films or was it John Holmes ?? another great actor!


----------



## robc

HappyasLarry said:


> just for you RobC and if you look like Antonio Banderes I will be right round for my night night cocoa and a back rub with a broken bottle as they say in Lancy!!
> 
> YouTube - The Mask of Zorro


I think I probably look more like Reg Banderas, his older fatter balding brother 

Oh well, one can dream.


----------



## PETERFC

HappyasLarry said:


> who was in the original Zorro films? I used to love watching those old movies..was it tryone power?


Sorry Guys a bit before my Time

Tyrone Power, Errol Flynn, Basil Rathbone, ??????????

Peterfc 666? a super hero


----------



## HappyasLarry

PETERFC said:


> Sorry Guys a bit before my Time
> 
> Tyrone Power, Errol Flynn, Basil Rathbone, ??????????
> 
> Peterfc 666? a super hero


Hello super hero, i think you look like a very distinguished Peter Ustinov do you know who he is??


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Hi happy Lar,

That's right. Basil Rathbone was also cast as Sherlock Holmes in a few movies. He was a better villian though and a thoroughly believable and convincing scumbag. 


Peter, are you having a laff ? They were a bit before my time ?  You were around in the Rudolf Valentino era.


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Hi Robc,

Has your new build been completed yet ?


:eyebrows:


----------



## robc

Mr.Blueskies said:


> Hi Robc,
> 
> Has your new build been completed yet ?
> 
> 
> :eyebrows:


Hi MrB..........errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr nope.

Still at present exchange rates...............is there a rush??? nope.


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Lar, Peter Ustinov is brown bread.


----------



## PETERFC

*reply*



Mr.Blueskies said:


> Lar, Peter Ustinov is brown bread.


Mr Blueskies

Peter who?

Peterfc 666? super hero ?????


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Please do tell us mere mortals Pete about the sort of super hero feats that you do. Just wondering how you compare against Robc ??? Do you also wear a cape and do you have a bat mobile ????


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Not a chick magnet, but a genuine old bat mobile. The sort that attracts old bats. lol


----------



## PETERFC

*Reply*



Mr.Blueskies said:


> Not a chick magnet, but a genuine old bat mobile. The sort that attracts old bats. lol


Hi All

A clue i where my undies on the outside and where a Benny hat.

Peterfc 666? a super hero ?????


----------



## bloakey

omostra06 said:


> <snip>
> .


Hmmm, 

I think that you are totally out of order posting about a named person in an open fora even though what you say is in defense of the said individual.


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Your not by any chance Ernie ? The fastest milkman in the west ?


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Rob, don't go to the cabbage festival. He might turnip there.


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Hmmmm undies on the outside. Baby face Finlayson, the cutest bandit in the west ? yuk yuk yuk.


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Do you wear a bib and suck a dummy ?


----------



## bloakey

Mr.Blueskies said:


> Rob, don't go to the cabbage festival. He might turnip there.


Do not forget the cruibeen festival at Coimbra, if you trot along there you will have something to go with the praties and cabaisce.


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Go raibh maith agat.

:spit:


----------



## bloakey

Mr.Blueskies said:


> Go raibh maith agat.
> 
> :spit:


An bhfeadfá labhairt níos moille, le do thoil, ni thuigm.


----------



## PETERFC

*Reply*

:confused2::confused2::confused2:

Peterfc 666? a super hero ??????


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Just a bit of irish Peter. Bloakey is irish also.


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Ba mhaith liom tu a labhairt nios moille ? Deanfamid fhail docha rabhadh seo chugainn chun caint i nGaeilgen Ni bheidh an brits cheadu sin.  Ta bron orm ghell ar an gramdach lochtach. Uimh fadas ar an riomhaire gluine.


----------



## silvers

Dear Croakey and Blueflies,
we, the English have not been taking care of you for all these years for you lot to start going all Oirish on us. Either use YOUR Queen's English on here or go plant some potatos.


----------



## siobhanwf

NOW NOW Mr Blueskies... all that has to be done is use Google translate and everyone knows what you´re saying


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Sure that would not be a problem at all Siobhan. What I have said is completely harmless.


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Taking care of us, are you Silvers ? With those prices ???


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

We the irish have no queen, unless you mean Danny La Rue ?


:eyebrows:


----------



## silvers

Mr.Blueskies said:


> Taking care of us, are you Silvers ? With those prices ???


My prices are very reasonable, I even accept payment in Euros, just for you lot.


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Do you deliver ?


----------



## silvers

Mr.Blueskies said:


> Do you deliver ?


We do pork and beef and chicken, but we don't do liver. Sorry.


----------



## Mr.Blueskies

Ooh, what about cow heel and tripe then ?


----------



## PETERFC

*Reply*

Hi Mr.Blueskies

Now i understand when i have visited Ireland they all speak English. 



Mr.Blueskies said:


> Ba mhaith liom tu a labhairt nios moille ? Deanfamid fhail docha rabhadh seo chugainn chun caint i nGaeilgen Ni bheidh an brits cheadu sin.  Ta bron orm ghell ar an gramdach lochtach. Uimh fadas ar an riomhaire gluine.




Peterfc 666? a super hero ??????


----------



## silvers

Plenty of tripe available.


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## Mr.Blueskies

Your sure that it's old tripe silvers ? Because I don't want no mutton, dressed up as lamb.


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## Mr.Blueskies

That's just to appear polite and civillized Peter.


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## silvers

At your age you should be glad to get anything.


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## Mr.Blueskies

Speak for yourself grandad. I am much younger than you.


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## pilib

*Lawyers*



omostra06 said:


> Buying a new build can be a very quick process, as the paperwork should all be upto date and ready to go, you can also go straight to completion without doing a promessa contract, this speeds things up and keeps the Lawyers cost down too,


Can the following message from my potential vendor be, going on what you say above, considering I´m still searching on the internet for a lawyer around Lousa, Mirando do Corvo, Penela, the property i_sn`t new_ and we haven`t negociated a price?

Email…

Hi Pilib

We don't actually need an avogado for the contract. We hold our own escritura and would give a copy of this to your lawyer who will then draw up the contract.

As soon as you have a lawyer let me know and we would be happy to provide them with the paperwork so we can move forward as soon as you are ready.


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## canoeman

If paperwork is all in order then a sale can take place in hours, the seller doesn't require a Solicitor/Lawyer, he only has to supply the required paperwork for your Solicitor/ Lawyer to complete the checks, seller or sellers agent generally draws up Promissory Note and Escritura and books Notary, Casa Pronto for Escritura.

First I'd have thought is to negotiate a price, if you can't agree on this then you might not need a solicitor


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## pilib

Jamesie said:


> Hi,
> We know a few lawyers in the area who we use and can recommend.
> They are located in :
> Figueira da Foz
> Lousa
> Miranda do Corvo.
> 
> Regards,


Hi Jamesie
I have been searching for a lawyer (without sucess) to check the final documents for the escritorio stage for a house I would like to buy in Podentes in early March 2013.

Can you give me any clues?

Thank you

Pilib


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## siobhanwf

pilib said:


> Hi Jamesie
> I have been searching for a lawyer (without sucess) to check the final documents for the escritorio stage for a house I would like to buy in Podentes in early March 2013.
> 
> Can you give me any clues?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Pilib






One avogado I would highly recommend is 
Rafael Crespo da Fonseca H&F Avogados 
mobile 91 345 32 60 work 262 180 232 work fax 262 180 233 
[email protected]

just drop him an email. He speaks excellent English 

Getting the correct professional advice is so important.


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## pilib

Thank you kindly Siobhan --- Philip


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