# UK/Spanish house swap?



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

How easy/difficult would this be??? We're renting in Spain at the mo. We have a house in the UK and we have some friends selling their house in Spain to go back to the UK, they like the look of our UK house and we like their spanish house. They're both of similar value - give or take cos of the exchange rate. Although I have no intention of doing anything illegal, should we decide to do this, is there any way we could all pay less stamp duty, spanish gains tax, etc etc...! The Spanish house is mortgage free and has all the correct paper work, the UK house has a mortgage which we will need to transfer

Any thoughts????

Jo


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jojo said:


> How easy/difficult would this be??? We're renting in Spain at the mo. We have a house in the UK and we have some friends selling their house in Spain to go back to the UK, they like the look of our UK house and we like their spanish house. They're both of similar value - give or take cos of the exchange rate. Although I have no intention of doing anything illegal, should we decide to do this, is there any way we could all pay less stamp duty, spanish gains tax, etc etc...! The Spanish house is mortgage free and has all the correct paper work, the UK house has a mortgage which we will need to transfer
> 
> Any thoughts????
> 
> Jo


You'll need to re register the Spanish House, and you'll need to pay capital gains tax on it. I think you'll have to treat the two totally separately


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## Big Pete (Aug 7, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> You'll need to re register the Spanish House, and you'll need to pay capital gains tax on it. I think you'll have to treat the two totally separately


Just a thought to overcome capital gains taxation 

If the 2 are both written well down in value like say if there worth 200k now then call them both 125k 

No Capital gains tax at all .. just an idea ..


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Big Pete said:


> Just a thought to overcome capital gains taxation
> 
> If the 2 are both written well down in value like say if there worth 200k now then call them both 125k
> 
> No Capital gains tax at all .. just an idea ..


Now thats a possibility, although we're gonna have to move the mortgage over and that may make the property in Spain less attractive to the mortgage lender maybe?? - plus, if we want to sell in the future, we'd have an even bigger capital gains tax to pay (...... assuming the property does gain??????) However, that would also solve the stamp duty problem at the english end. Hhhhhmm!??!!! I dont mind bending the rules a little, but I dont want to do anything illegal

If we do this, I think we'll need some very "clued up" lawyers both ends. any reccomendations????


Also, am I right in thinking that it isnt the norm to have a surveyor look over Spanish properties as is done in the UK??

Jo


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jojo said:


> Now thats a possibility, although we're gonna have to move the mortgage over and that may make the property in Spain less attractive to the mortgage lender maybe?? - plus, if we want to sell in the future, we'd have an even bigger capital gains tax to pay (...... assuming the property does gain??????) However, that would also solve the stamp duty problem at the english end. Hhhhhmm!??!!! I dont mind bending the rules a little, but I dont want to do anything illegal
> 
> If we do this, I think we'll need some very "clued up" lawyers both ends. any reccomendations????
> 
> ...


I may be wrong, but I think that you might find questions would be asked on the property value in Spain. They are in to finding black money payments at the moment ..... anyway i thought you didn't want to do anything illegal


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## Big Pete (Aug 7, 2007)

jojo said:


> Now thats a possibility, although we're gonna have to move the mortgage over and that may make the property in Spain less attractive to the mortgage lender maybe?? - plus, if we want to sell in the future, we'd have an even bigger capital gains tax to pay (...... assuming the property does gain??????) However, that would also solve the stamp duty problem at the english end. Hhhhhmm!??!!! I dont mind bending the rules a little, but I dont want to do anything illegal
> 
> If we do this, I think we'll need some very "clued up" lawyers both ends. any reccomendations????
> 
> ...


Yep could have a problem when you sell it with Cap Gains good point hmmmmm 
I dont think its illegal its your property sell it for what you like . specially at the moment it will be ok to be lower as the current market , is iffy isnt it ..

Yep surveyors will look to ensure mortgage is covered but they dont really give a stuff being honest, as long as there moneys covered ..


I shall put me thinking cap on it for you Jo and if i can think of solution will advise


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

What you have to appreciate Pete is that the Spanish authorities don't care about the UK part of the transaction, it means nothing to them. They will be interested in the documentary values of the property. Every house has a documented value, and this will be noted at the time of sale.

The whole thing about black money means that many houses seemed to be under declared in value to save taxes, and thats why this will look iffy to them as they have been trying to clamp down on it.


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## Big Pete (Aug 7, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> What you have to appreciate Pete is that the Spanish authorities don't care about the UK part of the transaction, it means nothing to them. They will be interested in the documentary values of the property. Every house has a documented value, and this will be noted at the time of sale.
> 
> The whole thing about black money means that many houses seemed to be under declared in value to save taxes, and thats why this will look iffy to them as they have been trying to clamp down on it.


yep i know what you mean , it was all to common a while ago this black money thingy , and i know they are hot on stopping that . yep thinking cap job for sure , 

Think you could get away with a small drop due to the market decline at the moment , without alarm bells ringing though.

i shall sleep on it , well not on it literaly, but will give it some thought before i go of to Petes World in me sleep


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

thanks guys, I appreciate your time and knowledge, its all way above my head at the mo, but I'm learning! All I know is that our house in the UK is dropping in value, the house in Spain is dropping in value and the exchange rate is "pants"!!

When we first decided to move to Spain last September, we put our UK house on the market and looked in Spain at houses of roughly the same kinda value. The UK house wouldnt sell eventhough we dropped it significantly and we're now seeing the same properties we were looking at to buy in September still on the market and they are at least 50,000 - 100,000+ euros cheaper!!

If we were to sell our UK house on the open market, it would take months to sell and I'm not sure we'd get a good deal as the market seems to be in mid crash The same seems to be the case in Spain. These friends have had their property on the market since September too, they've reduce the price and are now getting desperate (they have family issues in the UK). Anyway, my point is that I'm not sure anyone knows how to decide what the true value of either property is right now!?! I think I'm safe in saying that niether property is gonna go up!


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## Big Pete (Aug 7, 2007)

jojo said:


> thanks guys, I appreciate your time and knowledge, its all way above my head at the mo, but I'm learning! All I know is that our house in the UK is dropping in value, the house in Spain is dropping in value and the exchange rate is "pants"!!
> 
> When we first decided to move to Spain last September, we put our UK house on the market and looked in Spain at houses of roughly the same kinda value. The UK house wouldnt sell eventhough we dropped it significantly and we're now seeing the same properties we were looking at to buy in September still on the market and they are at least 50,000 - 100,000+ euros cheaper!!
> 
> If we were to sell our UK house on the open market, it would take months to sell and I'm not sure we'd get a good deal as the market seems to be in mid crash The same seems to be the case in Spain. These friends have had their property on the market since September too, they've reduce the price and are now getting desperate (they have family issues in the UK). Anyway, my point is that I'm not sure anyone knows how to decide what the true value of either property is right now!?! I think I'm safe in saying that niether property is gonna go up!


jojo you are right and i think that doing a deal together is superb for you , NO agents fees etc etc , 1 good solicitor to do the whole thing = half the costs . NO chains and hassles .

all in all a spot on situation , i would go with it , if your happy with the place then you have it cracked . i would lower the valuations slightly for transaction purposes and go ahead .

My opinion anyway 

ps; dont use todays Euro as the set rate , thats unfair on you go for a average say 1.42 ish ..


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Big Pete said:


> jojo you are right and i think that doing a deal together is superb for you , NO agents fees etc etc , 1 good solicitor to do the whole thing = half the costs . NO chains and hassles .
> 
> all in all a spot on situation , i would go with it , if your happy with the place then you have it cracked . i would lower the valuations slightly for transaction purposes and go ahead .
> 
> ...


Thanks for that Big Pete!! Thats how I feel about it all .......... I think???!!!!

Jo


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Big Pete said:


> 1 good solicitor to do the whole thing = half the costs


  Err ..


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## Big Pete (Aug 7, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> Err ..


why the err ? 1 should be ok a neutral one , they all sit round the table maybe have a coffee while they discuss the deal with the independant solicitor .

get all the legal paperwork sorted etc etc.

Meet up on completion date have another coffee round the table whilst signing all relevant paperwork , before exchanging and handing keys over to each other .

1 bill rather than 2 solicitors trying to stretch it out so they can whack the costs up , and you can bet your life 2 would make a heck of a mountain out of it ..
be the classic well i will write to there solicitor and ask for this and ask for that then i will write to you and let you know , and on it goes ..

Quicker and easier i dont know why people make such a major thing about buying houses  Its not technical or rocket science you swap money for deeds to a property , check the obvious legalitys ensure clean titles and stuff etc etc .. a doddle job solicitors pass it to there juniors in the Uk .. and no doubt they do in Spain also ..

One thing i would never ever in a zillion years is buy offplan thats when things get technical , but a proper house with deeds and registered and actually having a roof and 4 walls is easy ..


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Big Pete said:


> why the err ? 1 should be ok a neutral one , they all sit round the table maybe have a coffee while they discuss the deal with the independant solicitor .
> 
> get all the legal paperwork sorted etc etc.
> 
> ...


The err was because if you think a solicitor is going to charge you for one conveyance when he is doing two then I'd be very suprised. They'll still do all the searches and the work, so they will charge twice. Been there, done that


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## overtherainbow (Aug 28, 2008)

Hi jo jo im in a similar situation i need to sell my cottage in order to live in spain but need to find someone in spain who wants to come back to the uk and Who will be in a position to take on a mortgage.
If i was in your situation i would bite there arm off....forget the value! what you have to ask your self is is it worth living in? and what brings me closer to my purpose and what take me away from it? Sleep on it and there is your answer.
Love and light good luck.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

overtherainbow said:


> Hi jo jo im in a similar situation i need to sell my cottage in order to live in spain but need to find someone in spain who wants to come back to the uk and Who will be in a position to take on a mortgage.
> If i was in your situation i would bite there arm off....forget the value! what you have to ask your self is is it worth living in? and what brings me closer to my purpose and what take me away from it? Sleep on it and there is your answer.
> Love and light good luck.



Rightly or wrongly, we decided not to follow the house swap path - partly due to cost, partly due to the fact we were selling a second house in the UK and it fell through and partly due to my OHs fear of owning in Spain at this uncertain time. 

Interestingly, the owners of the spanish house have had several reasonable offers since and have (more or less) sold their house at the asking price. I think our UK house would have lost value since then, so maybe we should have done it. 

But we're renting a lovely place here and its not too expensive. We're working on the theory that house prices will drop here by more than our years rent???? As for the value of our UK house??????????????????????????????????????????????!

Jo


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## gucci (Sep 11, 2008)

Overtherainbow are u still looking for a swap?


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