# Social Security numbers and privacy



## gercan (Feb 10, 2008)

Hi all.

My husband & I are new US greencard holders and we just receieved our social security cards. We are concerned about the number of companies that ask for our social security number. We were asked for it just to buy a cell phone. Who do we have to give this number to and what is the best way to protect our privacy going forward. (we didn't buy the cell phone)

Best.

Gercan


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

gercan said:


> Hi all.
> 
> My husband & I are new US greencard holders and we just receieved our social security cards. We are concerned about the number of companies that ask for our social security number. We were asked for it just to buy a cell phone. Who do we have to give this number to and what is the best way to protect our privacy going forward. (we didn't buy the cell phone)
> 
> ...


In theory you don't have to give it to anyone but governmental bodies -- they'll always state under which law they require it. Example: state MVD, IRS, etc.

Some businesses will need it for governmental purposes, e.g. banks to comply with the Paranoid Act.

Other don't need it but won't offer you their services without it (e.g. cell phone company, insurance company). So it really depends on whether you want their "service".

Others are just trying their luck -- e.g. HOA, car dealer. Tell them politely (or rudely as your mood takes you) to stick it.

Remember that every time someone runs your credit for a new account, your score goes down. 

What are you doing to build your credit, BTW?


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Charming today?

Did try to actually purchase a phone or phone and service?

I am nosy - where is your husband from?


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## gercan (Feb 10, 2008)

Thanks for your replies. My husband is originally from Germany and became a landed immigrant in Canada in 2000 so he already went through all the credit stuff coming from Europe. We have both have a firmly established credit score here in Canada. The Canadian credit rating agency called "equifax" had a security breach a few years back and along with everyone in our postal code area our personal information was stolen. We were advised by the police a year afterwards that someone was trying to use that information to steal the title to our property. Needless to say we have all the fraud alerts in place and want to be very careful with our new US social security numbers and personal information. We are quite happy to pay our way with cash as is the European way. We were surprised to hear that even if we wanted to pay cash for the cell phone they still wanted our SS #'s 

Best.

Gercan


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

gercan said:


> We were surprised to hear that even if we wanted to pay cash for the cell phone they still wanted our SS #'s


That strategy is going to be expensive here since insurance companies use your credit score to determine risk. Weird I know....but there you go.

You should be starting to build a credit history asap. If you've got a Canadian AMEX, transfer it. If not (or as well), get a secured card for the minimum amount (usually around $500), spend around 20% of the limit every month (gas once or twice), then pay off in full after the end of the month -- there are no bonus points for paying interest! Play this game for seven or eight months and then convert or apply for a real card. Then (I assume you own your property), take a credit line on it and just leave it sitting dormant.

Result will be cheaper insurance and no problems with utilities, cell phone companies, etc.

Sooner you start, sooner you'll have the benefits. Three or four lines of credit are fine.


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## gercan (Feb 10, 2008)

Very sound advice! I assume you are talking about home insurance? 

Yes we do own property...we are in total transition between both countries still selling here in Canada so we haven't bought anything yet in America. We are still trying to decide where the best place to plant ourselves is. 

Best regards.

Gercan


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

gercan said:


> Very sound advice! I assume you are talking about home insurance?
> 
> Yes we do own property...we are in total transition between both countries still selling here in Canada so we haven't bought anything yet in America. We are still trying to decide where the best place to plant ourselves is.
> 
> ...


Home insurance, life insurance, auto insurance....many companies will run your credit to calculate your premium.


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## gercan (Feb 10, 2008)

Fatbrit said:


> Home insurance, life insurance, auto insurance....many companies will run your credit to calculate your premium.


Wow that is great information to have. We had no idea that the credit rating system has spread that far. 

Thanks Fatbrit.


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## Tiffani (Dec 4, 2007)

the credit rating system has spread RIDICULOUSLY far. One of the bugbears of anyone living in the US, immigrant or otherwise.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

Tiffani said:


> the credit rating system has spread RIDICULOUSLY far. One of the bugbears of anyone living in the US, immigrant or otherwise.


It's difficult to know who'll be first against the wall when the balloon finally goes up, but the credit bureaus and any who use their "information " must be in the top part of the extensive list.


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## gercan (Feb 10, 2008)

Based on what we experienced in Canada with our personal information stolen from Equifax, I don't think governments or business are placing very much importance on the issue of protecting personal information. I think the whole credit issue is out of control and no one can stop it. A complete collapse of the system as we know it is the only thing that will cause any significant changes. 

I never thought some one could steel my house by having my social security number, but they almost got away with it.

Best regards.

Gercanus


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## Tiffani (Dec 4, 2007)

well the problem is that the SS number is the only one in the US that is a nationally-recognised, completely unique number. So no matter where you go in the US, you can always be identified (at least electronically) by your SS card/number. So companies have decided that's a convenient way to make sure that they can find out if you decided to skip out on a financial commitment in the past. It makes sense from their standpoint but it's gotten out of hand and identity theft is too commonplace now. 

The system will eventually have to change, but Americans are very averse to anything resembling a national ID card and even if the individuals accepted it, the states would squawk about state's rights until congress killed it.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

gercan said:


> Based on what we experienced in Canada with our personal information stolen from Equifax, I don't think governments or business are placing very much importance on the issue of protecting personal information.


They'll let you pay to monitor to see if the information they collected but didn't protect has been stolen. It's almost funny.....in a sort of way.


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## Tiffani (Dec 4, 2007)

lazy and broken, more than funny...


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

Tiffani said:


> lazy and broken, more than funny...


Some of us still have to live here. I'd rather laugh than cry.


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## Tiffani (Dec 4, 2007)

Fatbrit said:


> Some of us still have to live here. I'd rather laugh than cry.


fair enough... I have some money (no way am I moving my dollars out of the US when they're worth so little) and student debts still back there so I feel your pain.


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## gercan (Feb 10, 2008)

So back to my original question. I recognize that in order to participate in society as it stands one needs to follow the rules, but if the rules are not in your best interest how do you protect yourself and your privacy? 

We have already been through an extensive security check just to get our green card but if we go all cash...there are concerns with that small international transfer limit we could get pegged as a bad sort. We are law abiding new immigrants and just want to keep our personal information private.

Best to you all
gercan


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## Tiffani (Dec 4, 2007)

Hi Gercan,

You're sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place in this situation. Yes, you have every right to protect yourself from identity theft, but companies that you may want to work with also have every right to refuse you service if you don't comply with their own requirements. It's something that everyone living in the US grapples with. What I ended up doing was just to be choosy about how got my SS number. I didn't hand it out willy-nilly to everyone who asked for it (obviously) but if I approached a company and wanted to do business with them, I was willing to provide it. 

Organisations to whom you MUST provide an SSN: government agencies such as the IRS and banks that you want to do business with.

Everyone else is up for debate. Unfortunately, as it stands the law does not force companies to NOT ask for an SSN when doing business with them, and until that happens, you may just have to do it. However, most people that you work with will be very understanding about your sensitivity regarding this issue especially since you've already been a victim of ID theft. If you just explain the situation to them and ask them to help out, you'll likely get one of two responses. Best case scenario: they waive the SSN requirement. This isn't very likely though. Probable scenario: the company rep will explain what steps they take to protect your identity (don't be afraid to ask for their privacy policy in writing, either, although most legit businesses will provide it up front). 

I also ask companies if they can "flag" my account as private in order to ensure that my information is not sold to any third party; in some cases this is possible. In cases where it's not and the company is not very transparent in its promises NOT to sell your information on, it may not be worth dealing with them. There's more than one cable company out there to choose from!


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## gercan (Feb 10, 2008)

Tiffani said:


> Hi Gercan,
> 
> You're sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place in this situation. Yes, you have every right to protect yourself from identity theft, but companies that you may want to work with also have every right to refuse you service if you don't comply with their own requirements. It's something that everyone living in the US grapples with. What I ended up doing was just to be choosy about how got my SS number. I didn't hand it out willy-nilly to everyone who asked for it (obviously) but if I approached a company and wanted to do business with them, I was willing to provide it.
> 
> ...



That is what we love about the USA...competition! Ultimately we are not beholden to one company. Choice is what drives consumerism and we are happy to participate within certain guidelines. Thanks for that great informative reply Tiffany 

Have a great evening.

Gercan


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

gercan said:


> So back to my original question. I recognize that in order to participate in society as it stands one needs to follow the rules, but if the rules are not in your best interest how do you protect yourself and your privacy?
> 
> We have already been through an extensive security check just to get our green card but if we go all cash...there are concerns with that small international transfer limit we could get pegged as a bad sort. We are law abiding new immigrants and just want to keep our personal information private.
> 
> ...



It's silly not to get a credit score -- but that doesn't mean you have to expose yourself that much. Get a couple of credit cards and use them sparingly, i.e. the same store where you get your groceries or gas station. Less places you use them, less chance of problems. Or just use them for regular bill pays provided you aren't charged extra. Regardless, never go above 20% of your max.

For cell phones, it depends how you use them. If you're like me and use them sparingly, I'd just pick up an anonymous one at Target or wherever. A $40 card lasts me 3 or 4 months. You're not going to get a contract one without a ssn, and you're not going to escape a hefty deposit without a credit score!

For most other folks, just say no. With some of them, you may need to be more forceful. 

You can get a copy of your credit report from each of the three agencies for free once a year, courtesy of the feds. Grab one every four months and check it for suspicious activity.

Get a shredder and shred all the crap.

Opt out of mailings.

Don't worry about the over 10k reporting on currency transactions -- it's an archaic system to find drug dealers and money launderers that doesn't even work. Though if you go down the car delaers and attempt to pay in cash, they should file a report.


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## Tiffani (Dec 4, 2007)

gercan said:


> That is what we love about the USA...competition! Ultimately we are not beholden to one company. Choice is what drives consumerism and we are happy to participate within certain guidelines. Thanks for that great informative reply Tiffany
> 
> Have a great evening.
> 
> Gercan


You're the first person who I've ever heard make a complimentary comment about American consumerism  

But you have a point. Freedom of choice is one that we Americans take for granted until we go abroad and realise that we can't always go to a huge box store and choose from 80 different kinds of spatula! (sometimes I really miss Bed, Bath, and Beyond *sigh*)


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## gercan (Feb 10, 2008)

Tiffani said:


> You're the first person who I've ever heard make a complimentary comment about American consumerism
> 
> But you have a point. Freedom of choice is one that we Americans take for granted until we go abroad and realise that we can't always go to a huge box store and choose from 80 different kinds of spatula! (sometimes I really miss Bed, Bath, and Beyond *sigh*)


That made me laugh out loud. I see you have moved to the land down under. Now I understand why you are missing Bed Bath and Beyond  I have very good friends from there who can't wait to go shopping here when I let them out of our self contained compound. Life is too short I say. If in doubt go shopping, preferably with cash.


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## Tiffani (Dec 4, 2007)

I remember last August (we were still living in the US) we had a friend visiting from Italy for three weeks because she wanted somewhere quiet to finish her PhD dissertation. Anyway, one of my favourite shows to watch was America's Test Kitchen on PBS, and one of the segments has them testing different kitchen product brands to see which one was preferred by the panel... they tell you the best overall, best value for money, and the worst. My friend was totally bemused by this (the episode she watched involved fish slice spatulas) and said "in Italy, you go to the shop and you buy the one they have. You would never have a show devoted to which spatula is best"  

I have been abroad plenty of times but that had never occurred to me before. I guess a market of 300 million gives you a lot more choice than a market of 50 million does


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Fatbrit said:


> Don't worry about the over 10k reporting on currency transactions -- it's an archaic system to find drug dealers and money launderers that doesn't even work. Though if you go down the car delaers and attempt to pay in cash, they should file a report.


Brit - BSA and MLA are not compliance regulations for the car dealer at the corner (who by the way video tapes each sale) but banking regulations stricktly enforces after 09/11.

What is this SS# paranoia? You do not want Jack 'n Jill to have it. OK. Keep track of your credit card purchases. Pay them off when the bill comes in. Use their dispute service to handle issues with merchants. 

Your credit score is a combination of credit outstanding be it open-ended such as credit cards or lines of credit, closed such as regular loans/mortgages and contracts such as phone/utilities/rent and how you repay the contract you have entered into.

I have seen scores over 800 recently with just two/three cards and a mortgage. Reports creditors receive have basically the same information but formatted and anlyzed differently.

After someone helped him/herself to my Christmas spree money I have not had but a few dollars cash on me. Credit card disappears - depending on the card you are out 50$ max. Most do not charge fees anymore. 

For your amusement - I won a dare on the beach in FL and wanted to buy the champagne two hours later in GA. Our card locked the purchase as the time between locations seemed like potential fraud. My Better Half wanted to surprise me but a call from the credit card company to verify the unusual purchase was faster.

Oh yes - I am very familiar with the German way of doing business. It does not always work here. I have actually come across stores not accepting cash as general policy. Deposit fees and cash handling are expensive and cumbersome.


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## gercan (Feb 10, 2008)

Thanks for all of your your contributions. We have some great information to move forward now. I will call Amex Canada and have a US card opened. We are not worried about establishing our credit as that part will be easy. We already have our debit visa cards set up for our personal bank account.

FYI...typically I have called my credit card company to tell them when we are travelling so we won't get any difficult situations. This is particularly important because we had to have all of our accounts flagged with the fraud alert. 

Best regards

Gercan


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

gercan said:


> Thanks for all of your your contributions. We have some great information to move forward now. I will call Amex Canada and have a US card opened. We are not worried about establishing our credit as that part will be easy. We already have our debit visa cards set up for our personal bank account.


It's a bit of an art getting good credit, and it takes some time. Would suggest a little reading up on the tricks of the game will pay dividends. Your visa debit cards do not count for a conventional credit score.


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