# Working in the US, in reverse



## Sebastian (Jul 10, 2008)

Hi Guys,

In the long term I'm thinking planning on re-location to the US, but I'm still are the very early stage of the whole process, but I have a question I've not seen answered anywhere else.

I'm going to be spending a few weeks out in California in September, I'm currently employed by a UK company and I've been asked if I could work remotely from the US for a couple of days. I work from home mostly, with the (very) rare trip to my company's head office.

My boss seemed quite open to the idea of me possibly carrying on in that fashion longer term (i.e. a few months if I wanted to).

I was wondering if I would need a visa since I'm technically "working" ?

Thanks,
Sebastian


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

Sebastian said:


> I was wondering if I would need a visa since I'm technically "working" ?


I could see a thousand immigration arguing for a thousand days about the answer to this one -- and still with no consensus. Be subtle would be my advice.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Technically, if you're on a "business trip" you can still enter the US on the visa waiver program - as long as you have no intention to overstay your visit and you can "prove" that you're going to return to your home country. On the visa waiver, you're limited to 90 days (and practically speaking, to whatever period of time you tell the nice agent you're staying for - last minute changes tend to make them nervous).

If you intend to stick around longer term, get a visa that reflects your intentions.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Sebastian (Jul 10, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> Technically, if you're on a "business trip" you can still enter the US on the visa waiver program - as long as you have no intention to overstay your visit and you can "prove" that you're going to return to your home country.


Thanks for the Bev, I was just talking to a friend on line and now I'm wondering, if I was to be working for a US company would it be the same?


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

Sebastian said:


> Thanks for the Bev, I was just talking to a friend on line and now I'm wondering, if I was to be working for a US company would it be the same?


Now you're playing with fire.


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## Sebastian (Jul 10, 2008)

Fatbrit said:


> Now you're playing with fire.


Just to be clear, It a hypothetical question really. I wondered because there was quite a lot of talk sometime ago that my company was going to be "acquired" by an American company.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

Sebastian said:


> Just to be clear, It a hypothetical question really. I wondered because there was quite a lot of talk sometime ago that my company was going to be "acquired" by an American company.


L1a followed by green card and then you're permanently in if that happens.

But if you muck up beforehand, you could find yourself permanently out. Your first suggestion (doing a bit of work for your UK company while you're on vacation) was okay -- don't bring reams and reams of documents and your desk with you, though. Your second suggestion was entering the no-no zone.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Fatbrit said:


> Now you're playing with fire.


You are on the BBQ:>)

The definition of business trip does not mean working from home in another country. Your center of life would be in the US - this includes taxes, ..... visa.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Sebastian said:


> Thanks for the Bev, I was just talking to a friend on line and now I'm wondering, if I was to be working for a US company would it be the same?


It really doesn't matter where the company is based or where its headquarters are. To live and work in the US, you need a visa.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Sebastian (Jul 10, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> It really doesn't matter where the company is based or where its headquarters are. To live and work in the US, you need a visa.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Just in case anyone has the wrong idea about my 2nd question, I was more thinking along them lines that if I work for an American Owned Company, but I worked in the UK, was paid in the UK, paid Taxes in the UK, etc. And then was asked to do some remote work while in the US.

I know the simple answer is don't do anything that could be contrived as work to avoid any problems.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

It does not matter which way you try to skin this cat - work for compensation in the US requires a visa.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Sebastian said:


> Just in case anyone has the wrong idea about my 2nd question, I was more thinking along them lines that if I work for an American Owned Company, but I worked in the UK, was paid in the UK, paid Taxes in the UK, etc. And then was asked to do some remote work while in the US.
> 
> I know the simple answer is don't do anything that could be contrived as work to avoid any problems.


OK - actually you're right in this situation. Assuming you work in the UK and live in the UK (where you're paid isn't really the issue), and you're coming over to the US for a holiday on a tourist visa or the visa waiver program... there is technically no problem if you do a little remote work during the time you're here. In fact, if you said that your employer had sent you to the US for the trip (on a visa waiver - for 90 days or less) you could honestly say you're in the US on business and there's no problem. But if asked, you would have to show that you live in the UK and intend to return there when your trip is over.

It's like in the old days (before the Internet) where someone from Europe would be sent to the US for a week of business meetings at US headquarters, or to talk with US customers - and then tack on a week or two of holiday to "see the US." On entry, it's best to admit that you're here for both business and personal reasons.
Cheers,
Bev


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Bev this is very grey area. Is the employer skirting a visa issue or is it really a short trip with ball-and-chain called laptop to meet face-to-face with the US team? Personally I would want the company's legal department involved.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

twostep said:


> Bev this is very grey area. Is the employer skirting a visa issue or is it really a short trip with ball-and-chain called laptop to meet face-to-face with the US team? Personally I would want the company's legal department involved.


As far as I know, it's still possible to send folks over to the US from Europe (any visa waiver country) to a business meeting or to visit the US site for a limited period of time, not exceeding the 90 day period covered by the waiver. 

On entry, you say you're on business - they usually ask about any products or samples you are carrying. (I used to be an auditor, so never carried anything but paperwork with me.) Main concern is that you're not bringing in anything you intend to leave and that you will indeed be going back "home" in the time period allotted. Now, the longer you say you are staying, the more questions, usually but maybe things have changed in the last few years.
Cheers,
Bev


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

If you are in the US for other reasons, and need to do some work while you are here, you probably won't have any legal difficulties if it is short term. After all, if a business person comes to the US for a month's vacation, and ends up getting a lot of phone calls from the home office in Canada, we don't require a special visa, even though that person is 'working' while in the US. Nor would we require a work visa for a novelist who wants to spend a couple of months on the beach in Florida writing. You are talking about a few months, not about setting up shop permanently.

Certainly there is no problem for a few days, and I don't think a month or two would make a difference. That would be more like a business trip.


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## MichelleAlison (Aug 25, 2007)

synthia said:


> If you are in the US for other reasons, and need to do some work while you are here, you probably won't have any legal difficulties if it is short term. After all, if a business person comes to the US for a month's vacation, and ends up getting a lot of phone calls from the home office in Canada, we don't require a special visa, even though that person is 'working' while in the US. Nor would we require a work visa for a novelist who wants to spend a couple of months on the beach in Florida writing. You are talking about a few months, not about setting up shop permanently.
> 
> Certainly there is no problem for a few days, and I don't think a month or two would make a difference. That would be more like a business trip.



I can't see any problem as long as it's short term. There must be thousands of people who take their laptops on holiday wherever they go and continue working by the swimming pool, on the beach etc. I have met many people who do just that and I am sure all these people are on tourist visas.

Michelle


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

MichelleAlison said:


> I can't see any problem as long as it's short term. There must be thousands of people who take their laptops on holiday wherever they go and continue working by the swimming pool, on the beach etc. I have met many people who do just that and I am sure all these people are on tourist visas.


You raise an interesting issue here - laptops. There has been a big to-do in some of the US newspapers lately because the Homeland Security people now assert their "right" to search any and all files you bring into the country with you on a laptop - or even on a PDA or smart phone.

Hard to tell from the articles if this is just media hype or if it really has become commonplace - but apparently they have impounded computers and PDAs from arriving business people. (Some say primarily "Muslim looking" individuals or other "suspicious" groups.)

Thought I'd mention it, just in case anyone gets asked about the contents of their laptop on entry to the US. I would suspect you are somewhat more likely to be searched if you are coming to the US "on business." (Hint: Clean the porn or other "questionable" material off your machine before you travel - and don't forget to clean out those cookies if you've been surfing to "questionable" websites.)

"Resistance is futile." 
Cheers,
Bev


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> You raise an interesting issue here - laptops. There has been a big to-do in some of the US newspapers lately because the Homeland Security people now assert their "right" to search any and all files you bring into the country with you on a laptop - or even on a PDA or smart phone.
> 
> Hard to tell from the articles if this is just media hype or if it really has become commonplace - but apparently they have impounded computers and PDAs from arriving business people. (Some say primarily "Muslim looking" individuals or other "suspicious" groups.)
> 
> ...


You are really standing on Gitmo in the no-man's land of the US border.

There was a case last year where a port of entry officers beat up a Mexican national at a Texas border crossing. In a surprising judgment for the fifth circuit, they actually overruled DHS's claim that the victim had no standing to sue for the serious damages inflicted. Wonders will never cease, eh?

If you're a US citizen, you're okay. If you are or claim to be a permanent resident, you have access to judicial review. Everyone else is at the whim of the uniformed drones.


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