# Impact of Special Immi Access for HK Citizens



## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

Maybe all people here are not aware of these imminent plans to enable urgent pathways for HK citizens to Australia. I think together with Corona impact it give grim picture to other visa applicants at the moment.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/aus...harvest-in-recent-memory-20200706-p559fp.html


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## safe for better life (Nov 23, 2019)

I'm sure that they will take the PR quota against those hardworking people day and night. I've been think what they can contribute to the development of Australia business and community? BTW, I am not a racist, those guys don't need to learn and try their best to realize their dreams in Australia, they just need to walk on the street and vandalise the public property, then they can grant the visa,what a ridiculous "freedom".


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## JennyWang (Jan 9, 2018)

I think the initial step is to grant safety haven visas for Hong Kong ppl who are already on-shore. The approx number is 20,000 (in another news article I read).


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## joshyakovlev (Jun 14, 2017)

safe for better life said:


> I'm sure that they will take the PR quota against those hardworking people day and night. I've been think what they can contribute to the development of Australia business and community? BTW, I am not a racist, those guys don't need to learn and try their best to realize their dreams in Australia, they just need to walk on the street and vandalise the public property, then they can grant the visa,what a ridiculous "freedom".


What a load of tripe. Those who decide to settle in Australia from Hong Kong have an enormous amount to offer. Many Hong Kong companies are very active in the Australian market, their English is superb and they many are able to offer skills and experience that are vacant in our workforce. Your attitude is deplorable, resentful and lacks any contextual understanding of the Australian economy and it’s requirements.


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

joshyakovlev said:


> What a load of tripe. Those who decide to settle in Australia from Hong Kong have an enormous amount to offer. Many Hong Kong companies are very active in the Australian market, *their English is superb* and they many are able to offer skills and experience that are vacant in our workforce. Your attitude is deplorable, resentful and lacks any contextual understanding of the Australian economy and it’s requirements.


There are tens of thousands of people with Superior English level already proven through Australian government approved tests waiting in the immigration queues...why are you favoring HK people then? 

What skills can HK people offer that all these other waiting invitations patiently, with all the paperwork and tests done cant? Which areas are vacant that you are talking about? There are 700 thousand students in Australia...where do they fit in to this scheme now? 

No need to hide the fact that Australia is after wealthy HK people to move their wealth here, it has nothing to do with humanitarian reasons and their language or work skills.


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## nacalen (Sep 30, 2019)

safe for better life said:


> I'm sure that they will take the PR quota against those hardworking people day and night. I've been think what they can contribute to the development of Australia business and community? BTW, *I am not a racist*, those guys don't need to learn and try their best to realize their dreams in Australia, *they just need to walk on the street and vandalise the public property, then they can grant the visa,what a ridiculous "freedom"*


Right, not racist at all...


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## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

Neb Ulozny said:


> There are tens of thousands of people with Superior English level already proven through Australian government approved tests waiting in the immigration queues...why are you favoring HK people then?
> 
> What skills can HK people offer that all these other waiting invitations patiently, with all the paperwork and tests done cant? Which areas are vacant that you are talking about? There are 700 thousand students in Australia...where do they fit in to this scheme now?
> 
> No need to hide the fact that Australia is after wealthy HK people to move their wealth here, it has nothing to do with humanitarian reasons and their language or work skills.


You do realise these provisions are for people fleeing prosecution from CCP??


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## safe for better life (Nov 23, 2019)

Mates:
I am sorry that it is not intend to trigger an argument on the political issue, Focus on the immigration only!
If you would like to support those political campaigns, please go to HK , the boarder of India and china or join in the protest nearby etc.Leave this forum just for immigration discussion, we shall show our respect to each other who are trying our best to bring our families to the best furture.


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

mustafa01 said:


> You do realise these provisions are for people fleeing prosecution from CCP??


Not at all, 3 million people would be eligible for these fast tracked immigration options...not only to Australia of course, but you realise how this could affect people overseas already in the queues and those already on shore?

So many people on this forum are going through tough times with the Corona effect on the immigration, this adds another blow to possible numbers if they really go ahead with mass influx of people from HK.


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## joshyakovlev (Jun 14, 2017)

It’s a difficult situation. Could admittance of some people from HK have an impact on other streams? Possibly so. 

That being said, the Australian government can make any decisions it likes towards immigration within its given mandate. 

As difficult as it sounds, having spent money on tests and assessments to support an EOI does not give you a right over others, it only gives you the right to compete for an invitation to apply. 

Whilst the issues around immigration are very complex, perhaps more so now than ever, the flavours of entitlement and resentment are very sad.


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## nacalen (Sep 30, 2019)

Neb Ulozny said:


> Not at all, 3 million people would be eligible for these fast tracked immigration options...not only to Australia of course, but you realise how this could affect people overseas already in the queues and those already on shore?
> 
> So many people on this forum are going through tough times with the Corona effect on the immigration, this adds another blow to possible numbers if they really go ahead with mass influx of people from HK.


The only people who decide if that will have an impact on any other visa is the government and DHA. If they decide to take some sort of amount of visas from the 189 quote, it's them, not the HK people.


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## JennyWang (Jan 9, 2018)

joshyakovlev said:


> It’s a difficult situation. Could admittance of some people from HK have an impact on other streams? Possibly so.
> 
> That being said, the Australian government can make any decisions it likes towards immigration within its given mandate.
> 
> ...


Second that. 

As much as I feel the pain of this slow/paused immigration queue moving started from early last year, the pain from watching Hong Kong ppl fighting for their freedom is much worse and deeper, for me personally.

I'm glad that Australia is willing to take them, at least some of them. This is a political move to show what Australia stands for. Also for me that means I picked the right country that shares the same values. 

I know this is immigration forum and we better not to discuss too much about politics but sadly politics is around EVERYONE right now. 

No one on this forum likes the fact that immigration number is cut. But who is to blame? Please, not Hong Kong people.


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## dybydx (Jul 23, 2019)

I think these visas will be taken out from humanitarian category (which I think it doesn't meet quota every year, most of the applicants under this category will be from the Middle East or other countries where there is a severe war)

But, in my opinion, I'm not a racist too, and I'm not a HKer, if I'm an Australian, I would be happy for the government to take these number from Skilled Migrant category for HKers as well.

These HKers are global citizens, they tend to adapt to Western culture as well as good English, it's might not be perfect but I'm sure that they are better than many Asian populations, some Europeans as well. 

Many global companies are established both in HK and Aus which will be easier for them to settle their life and have freedom of speech here. They are skilled, ready, well-prepared for the labour market here and make a huge contribution to the Aus economy.

Again, in my view, if I'm Australian, I would be happy to accept more HKers who are ready to contribute to skilled jobs rather than majority of people in pool of Skilled Migration who obtain the highest points through scam stuff, then driving an Uber or do labour-intensive jobs when they got a PR.

In terms of humanitarian and refugee visa as well, who should Aus accept between a group who ready in all aspects but they just want a freedom and another group that they will need to prepare everything from the start, including English.


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## sawtinnmaung (Jan 21, 2016)

Neb Ulozny said:


> There are tens of thousands of people with Superior English level already proven through Australian government approved tests waiting in the immigration queues...why are you favoring HK people then?
> 
> What skills can HK people offer that all these other waiting invitations patiently, with all the paperwork and tests done cant? Which areas are vacant that you are talking about? There are 700 thousand students in Australia...where do they fit in to this scheme now?
> 
> No need to hide the fact that Australia is after wealthy HK people to move their wealth here, it has nothing to do with humanitarian reasons and their language or work skills.


Mate,

You need to realize that AU has humanitarian program to help refugees from all over the world. This is one of the Australian value too.

If you think about only one side that you are sitting on, AU is not the place for you. 

In page 52 of Common Bond, it states that "Australia as a global citizen
Australia is proud of its role as a good international citizen. We show this by helping those less fortunate than ourselves around the world." 

How are you expecting to get your skilled PR or employer sponsorship without having Australian's values in your mind?

If you think about yourself only, AU is not the country for you and you are not welcome. I am sorry to say that.


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## sawtinnmaung (Jan 21, 2016)

JennyWang said:


> Second that.
> 
> As much as I feel the pain of this slow/paused immigration queue moving started from early last year, the pain from watching Hong Kong ppl fighting for their freedom is much worse and deeper, for me personally.
> 
> ...


I also do support on this.


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

sawtinnmaung said:


> Mate,
> 
> You need to realize that AU has humanitarian program to help refugees from all over the world. This is one of the Australian value too.
> 
> ...


Oh common, don't take it with that angle...I'm not against refugee intake. I was pointing out that someone mentioned how they speak perfect English and offer skills needed here, like that has anything to do with a humanitarian eligibility? Is this a skilled migration or help for refugees?

Also, article suggest vetting these refugees to allow only wealthy people in...I don't see this as a promotion of Australian values or any other noble values ever. It's simply getting hold of capital that is trying to get out of the claws of an oppressive regime.

So, you either allow 3 million people to come in as refugees and claim the noble values (fair enough with me, country can do whatever it wishes)...or single out wealthy individuals and leave the noble stuff out of the story.

My initial post was to show people here who are desperately waiting for any news of immigration moving on that this might affect it as well.


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## joshyakovlev (Jun 14, 2017)

Neb Ulozny said:


> sawtinnmaung said:
> 
> 
> > Mate,
> ...


Is it skilled migration or humanitarian? It’s all political and kills two birds with one stone. Australia remains united with the West in its action against the CCP over Hong Kong and can access some talent at the same time. Sounds like a win win.


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## sawtinnmaung (Jan 21, 2016)

Neb Ulozny said:


> Oh common, don't take it with that angle...I'm not against refugee intake. I was pointing out that someone mentioned how they speak perfect English and offer skills needed here, like that has anything to do with a humanitarian eligibility? Is this a skilled migration or help for refugees?
> 
> Also, article suggest vetting these refugees to allow only wealthy people in...I don't see this as a promotion of Australian values or any other noble values ever. It's simply getting hold of capital that is trying to get out of the claws of an oppressive regime.
> 
> So, you either allow 3 million people to come in as refugees and claim the noble values (fair enough with me, country can do whatever it wishes)...or single out wealthy individuals and leave the noble stuff out of the story.


Well! The only problem is fake refugee. I met with one Syrian lady who said the only rich people from Syria have access to this refugee program. In other words, rich people in middle east buy tokens from genuine refugees. I totally against those fake ones. Other than that, I strongly support humanitarian program.

Back to Skilled program, I have been watching this game since 2007 when my cousin tried to immigrate to AU. It has been changing a lot over times.

NZ 189 stream can also be considered one significant impact to the original 189 stream so there are some questions for you to ask yourself.

- Do NZs think they can speak English better than other non-speaking nations?
- Do NZs think if it is fair to share the quota with other nations because they are native English speakers and they come from very close background with AU?
- Do you think all PTE 90 can speak superior English?
- Do you think all skilled people are contributing their skills to AU?

A few more questions are here.

- Who is forcing people to apply skilled visa? 
- Who is lobbying people about skilled visa? AU authorities or Agents?
- Why are people thinking PR as a right after studying in AU or working in AU? 
- People are here to study or work for the sake of their advantages. Why does AU have to grant PR for those who poured their money to those tests to increase their points though they know about the bad situation in world economy? 

Most of the people tend to blame others easily instead of reflecting or reviewing themselves. If they can, they also want to ask their God, "Why did you create me like this while other people can get things done easily?


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

sawtinnmaung said:


> Well! The only problem is fake refugee. I met with one Syrian lady who said the only rich people from Syria have access to this refugee program. In other words, rich people in middle east buy tokens from genuine refugees. I totally against those fake ones. Other than that, I strongly support humanitarian program.
> 
> Back to Skilled program, I have been watching this game since 2007 when my cousin tried to immigrate to AU. It has been changing a lot over times.
> 
> ...


OK so...long reply ahead. We agree on the fake refugees, no point discussing that and even the point of humanitarian help. It's a given thing and something that first world countries like Australia should be proud of.

NZ cannot be compared to HK situation...ANZAC is a true and deep connection between these two nations, and really I cannot say anything against Aus preference to have NZ migrants here and vice versa. This is another given thing really.

I am actually against 189 stream completely...may sound like a radical opinion on this forum, but here it comes. When I first heard about it I thought it must be some email scam...why in the world would a country let in someone based on some points score and give that person almost 99% of a citizen status when they set their foot first time there? This simply doesn't sound right if the country has work visa available at the time. So, some people work and pay tax from day one and get nothing, not even access to Medicare...meanwhile someone collected points overseas and has all public service for free from day one! And, especially in case of Australia, where employers value local experience over anything else in your resume...people who got job offer and came here to work are the true skilled migration. NZ has the whole thing right, yes you can come in but have 2 yrs to find job in your profession...not anything that comes along and call it skilled immigration.

190 stream, same thing...I'll give you example of my friend who got 190 in SA knowingly planning that he will move to Vic. So got the points for skills required in SA...wrote a heartbreaking letter after few months in Adelaide and was allowed to move to Melbourne as he may find a job there. And again was looking for work 1.5 years working menial jobs...is this a skilled migration we talking here? In my opinion,his case should be a cancellation of visa kind of consequence here...but nothing. And I told him this, his actions have taken a spot of someone honest and hard working who is legitimately claiming points.How many people have tricked the system like this? Who knows.

Nobody can convince me that all these points give a true picture of someone's skills and future contribution to the country. It doesn't take in to account the most important thing to any employer here...quality of your CV. Employers couldn't care less about your PTE score (which are laughable game we play) if you don't know your job...and it's a true disappointment that scoring system equalizes someone with 8 yrs experience in a no-name company with someone holding 20 yrs of experience in a major brand name company at top of his game.

Australian immigration system has become so tricky with hundreds of pathways... it's becoming impossible to navigate all the options, it's ridiculous we have to go through forums like these and try to find tips and previous experience of other people. I shouldn't be here really...and most of other people actually, it's insane. 

Do you know how immigration works in most countries in the world? You first get a job...and work there for 4-5 or more years and then simply apply for PR and get it assuming you received salary over certain threshold and have no criminal record. No points, no silly competitions, no hidden tricks (like deducting points), no begging employers to sponsor you and endless tests and fees to pay, you have proved your value and continue to do so with permanent residence. That's it really. Even NZ has this option...they will happily fast track your application if your salary is over certain value.

To summarize, if you call this a skilled immigration then make it about true skills, not ''trick the points system'' skills. And really, Australia owes me nothing, I expected reasonable system that values a true contribution to the country...found something totally opposite. Who cares, it's my problem not Australia's. Always other options to move to.

Only true winners here are MARA agents.


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## LordD (Jun 19, 2019)

Here is the problem with the timing of this; the subset of onshore PR applicants that have been in Australia for years already working or contributing to Australia’s economy (over $275k personally and awaiting PR for a substantial amount more to be spent in the housing market) have been completely stalled out on grants due to the “virus”. These people have not only contributed to the economy, but to the tax base for social welfare programs that they themselves have not been privied to receive during the pandemic economic business planning phase. 

PR grants have not been issued to this subset intentionally to keep as many people off the welfare system as possible and now the country is contradicting it’s reasoning by fast tracking citizenship for tens of thousands of “wealthy refugees” expecting them to bolster the economy. Who is to say the the CCP won’t put an asset freeze on anyone looking to escape? Who is to say that the majority of these “refugees” will be financially self sufficient and not rely on the very same social welfare system that onshore applicants have been paying into for years without any benefit or any forward progress from immigration? 

This is also happening at a time that Australia has been very political about decreasing skilled immigration due to the lack of proper infrastructure, affordable housing and lack of jobs for Australians, even before the jobs downturn due to the pandemic. How will a massive influx of fast tracked citizenship for “wealthy, skilled refugees” help with that narrative? It begins to sound a bit like discrimination when a gov’t wants to pick and choice its wealthy and skilled "refugees" over the very people that have already proven themselves as worthy citizens who have had their very own lives completely stalled out!

I’m all for helping HK to the best of anyone’s ability, the CCP is pure diabolical, but when gov’t uses the narrative for their own gain or for their own politics it feels fishy. If Australia wants to open its borders for wealthy and skilled “refugees” then they should not discriminate and begin to process grants to those, at the very least, that are currently contributing to the system and to truly displaced refugees so that these people may too move their lives forward!


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## joshyakovlev (Jun 14, 2017)

LordD said:


> Here is the problem with the timing of this; the subset of onshore PR applicants that have been in Australia for years already working or contributing to Australia’s economy (over $275k personally and awaiting PR for a substantial amount more to be spent in the housing market) have been completely stalled out on grants due to the “virus”. These people have not only contributed to the economy, but to the tax base for social welfare programs that they themselves have not been privied to receive during the pandemic economic business planning phase.
> 
> PR grants have not been issued to this subset intentionally to keep as many people off the welfare system as possible and now the country is contradicting it’s reasoning by fast tracking citizenship for tens of thousands of “wealthy refugees” expecting them to bolster the economy. Who is to say the the CCP won’t put an asset freeze on anyone looking to escape? Who is to say that the majority of these “refugees” will be financially self sufficient and not rely on the very same social welfare system that onshore applicants have been paying into for years without any benefit or any forward progress from immigration?
> 
> ...


A very interesting and valuable contribution to this thread. I think the main challenge is that immigration is discriminatory by its very nature and it is to be expected that Australia acts in its own interests both politically and economically.


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## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

Neb Ulozny said:


> There are tens of thousands of people with Superior English level already proven through Australian government approved tests waiting in the immigration queues...why are you favoring HK people then?
> 
> What skills can HK people offer that all these other waiting invitations patiently, with all the paperwork and tests done cant? Which areas are vacant that you are talking about? There are 700 thousand students in Australia...where do they fit in to this scheme now?
> 
> No need to hide the fact that Australia is after wealthy HK people to move their wealth here, it has nothing to do with humanitarian reasons and their language or work skills.


First off, I think you are way off from the actual topic as you still struggling to understand the ground reality with these *SAFE HAVEN* visas. 
Secondly, you are clearly mistaken if you think onshore immigrants who have done all the tests and what not have more to offer than offshore. This is a very divisive nature and encourages hatred towards other communities and immigrants.




Neb Ulozny said:


> Not at all, 3 million people would be eligible for these fast tracked immigration options...not only to Australia of course, but you realise how this could affect people overseas already in the queues and those already on shore?
> 
> So many people on this forum are going through tough times with the Corona effect on the immigration, this adds another blow to possible numbers if they really go ahead with mass influx of people from HK.


Your analogy is blowing my mind. How could it possibly impact GSM when the government has clearly indicated it would be a safe haven visa for HK citizens. Have any asylum or protection visa had any impact on GSM allocations or processing? No.

It is an obligation on everyone to help anyone in times of crisis if their life or basic freedom is under threat.


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## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

LordD said:


> Here is the problem with the timing of this; the subset of onshore PR applicants that have been in Australia for years already working or contributing to Australia’s economy (over $275k personally and awaiting PR for a substantial amount more to be spent in the housing market) have been completely stalled out on grants due to the “virus”. These people have not only contributed to the economy, but to the tax base for social welfare programs that they themselves have not been privied to receive during the pandemic economic business planning phase.


I don't understand what timing is right to flee prosecution which threatens your life and basic freedom. For rest of the other things regarding onshore people, I agree with your here. 




> PR grants have not been issued to this subset intentionally to keep as many people off the welfare system as possible and now the country is contradicting it’s reasoning by fast tracking citizenship for tens of thousands of “wealthy refugees” expecting them to bolster the economy. Who is to say the the CCP won’t put an asset freeze on anyone looking to escape? Who is to say that the majority of these “refugees” will be financially self sufficient and not rely on the very same social welfare system that onshore applicants have been paying into for years without any benefit or any forward progress from immigration?


The Commonwealth Government can decide that.




> This is also happening at a time that Australia has been very political about decreasing skilled immigration due to the lack of proper infrastructure, affordable housing and lack of jobs for Australians, even before the jobs downturn due to the pandemic. How will a massive influx of fast tracked citizenship for “wealthy, skilled refugees” help with that narrative? It begins to sound a bit like discrimination when a gov’t wants to pick and choice its wealthy and skilled "refugees" over the very people that have already proven themselves as worthy citizens who have had their very own lives completely stalled out!


Thank god you used the word "refugees" here. They would not impact GSM quota. If Australian Government decreases GSM quota this FY, it would be because of unemployment and covid issues but not because of asylum seekers.



> I’m all for helping HK to the best of anyone’s ability, the CCP is pure diabolical, but when gov’t uses the narrative for their own gain or for their own politics it feels fishy. If Australia wants to open its borders for wealthy and skilled “refugees” then they should not discriminate and begin to process grants to those, at the very least, that are currently contributing to the system and to truly displaced refugees so that these people may too move their lives forward!


So you say you want to help HKers to the best of anyone's ability and yet you also feel that they are not genuine or truly displaced refugees. You pretty much summed up everything here about what you think about HK citizens.


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

mustafa01 said:


> First off, I think you are way off from the actual topic as you still struggling to understand the ground reality with these SAFE HAVEN visas.
> *Secondly, you are clearly mistaken if you think onshore immigrants who have done all the tests and what not have more to offer than offshore.* This is a very divisive nature and encourages hatred towards other communities and immigrants.


That is the whole point I'm talking about, someone working for years in his profession in the country has contributed more to the economy than someone who just collected points offshore and paid a visa fee. And these taxes paid by workers on temp visa are a 100% contribution...we get nothing back, not even public school access nor Medicare. We have to pay extra for this. And a guy stepping his foot for the first time in this country gets all this for free...how crazy is that?

Now please explain me how is this OK in your opinion? What makes someone with 95 points more special than someone already working and integrating in to society? What is a true measure of your value to the country? Is it a number of generic points or the fact that you are employed and working in your profession?

There is nothing special about PR points, I am not special either and not claiming that at all...we are not talking about special talent visa where you can say "hey these people are really top level talents in their fields, they should get priority over me" so what's all the fuss about my opinion then? It's not divisive, it is common sense. Besides that, if one is such true talent and bearer of skills...it shouldn't be a problem to get a job offer here from overseas and come on temp visa right? Nah, easier to collect generic points of course. That is the difference. Gov looks at number of year of exp, but employer looks at what you actually did...this is a massive difference I am talking about and reason this immigration system is so unfair to truly skilled people.

Only divisive things here is that onshore applicants must do these tests again and again, even after working here for years...there is nothing more bizarre than me checking a young Aussie engineer graduate report and correcting spelling mistakes, then going to a PTE test same day to prove something again and again. I've explained how this works to few of my Aussie colleagues and they were all stunned by it and the bizarre nature of this points scoring, most of them have no idea how immigration works here.


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## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

Neb Ulozny said:


> That is the whole point I'm talking about, someone working for years in his profession in the country has contributed more to the economy than someone who just collected points offshore and paid a visa fee. And these taxes paid by workers on temp visa are a 100% contribution...we get nothing back, not even public school access nor Medicare. We have to pay extra for this. And a guy stepping his foot for the first time in this country gets all this for free...how crazy is that?


I just have one question for you. What has stopped onshore applicants from applying from overseas? If you feel that offshore migrants gets the gold nugget without any handwork then what has stopped onshore migrants in the first place to apply from offshore. It is vice versa. 
Temp workers/students choose Australia for work (before PR) because most people want to earn more money than they were earning and get more skilled(qualification and employment) so in turn it could contribute towards their visa application. The AU government did not pat anyone on the back and promised PR if they first came in as student or temp workers.



> Now please explain me how is this OK in your opinion? What makes someone with 95 points more special than someone already working and integrating in to society? What is a true measure of your value to the country? Is it a number of generic points or the fact that you are employed and working in your profession?


That is how this system as been working since 2007. I acknowledge everyone is frustrated because of suspended invites and grants but the rules for migration have been like this forever. The more points you can get, the better chance you have at PR. Why are you making it sound like the rules for point system were introduced like a week ago.



> There is nothing special about PR points, I am not special either and not claiming that at all...we are not talking about special talent visa where you can say "hey these people are really top level talents in their fields, they should get priority over me" so what's all the fuss about my opinion then? It's not divisive, it is common sense. Besides that, if one is such true talent and bearer of skills...it shouldn't be a problem to get a job offer here from overseas and come on temp visa right? Nah, easier to collect generic points of course. That is the difference. Gov looks at number of year of exp, but employer looks at what you actually did...this is a massive difference I am talking about and reason this immigration system is so unfair to truly skilled people.


You are free to express your opinion but I feel it triggers divisiveness. Regarding jobs, the government never advice private companies to hire only PR or citizens but its usually the companies who prefer PR or citizens over temp workers because of this very issue. They are temp workers and would have to eventually leave country if their PR did not go through. Even with many government jobs like in Services Australia, you need to be a AU citizen and a PR holder is not eligible for those jobs. 



> Only divisive things here is that onshore applicants must do these tests again and again, even after working here for years...there is nothing more bizarre than me checking a young Aussie engineer graduate report and correcting spelling mistakes, then going to a PTE test same day to prove something again and again. I've explained how this works to few of my Aussie colleagues and they were all stunned by it and the bizarre nature of this points scoring, most of them have no idea how immigration works here.


Even offshore have to do PTE, NAATI Online etc to get more points. The rules remain same.


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

mustafa01 said:


> I just have one question for you. What has stopped onshore applicants from applying from overseas? If you feel that offshore migrants gets the gold nugget without any handwork then what has stopped onshore migrants in the first place to apply from offshore. It is vice versa.


I guess we'll agree to disagree here.

Why would someone go through PR application if it has a job offer from Australia? You get the visa and go to work, spend few years there and get PR. At least that's how it works in most countries in the world. I get that Australia is different and that's what I'm trying to point out so hard here. 

If you're already employed here...you are skilled...period. Why go all the lengths to prove it again and again if the whole thing is about employer and you. Not the government or PTE, or NAATI or whatever else test they come up with. Yes, there is employer sponsored PR but that opens whole new can of worms and dependence on sponsorship again.

This whole mantra how temp workers "are only temporary here" is what distorts the whole PR vs work visa system. We are sort of expendable and PR applicants are special, but we can also become special if we earn all these points while working on shore...which is what PR applicants aspire to do anyways. It's just madness when you think about it.

Besides that, system has obviously failed, try any Uber ride in Sydney and ask the driver is he on PR and what is his true profession. I guarantee you in 6 out of 10 cases it will be an engineer, accountant or some other highly educated profession...and these poor people can't find job for years in their profession. So what's the point of all these points then?

It's very simple case of tying PR with employment in the actual profession you are claiming PR for...and that is it, look at NZ immigration system and let me know if you agree with it.


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## GandalfandBilbo (Sep 17, 2019)

Neb Ulozny said:


> This simply doesn't sound right if the country has work visa available at the time. *So, some people work and pay tax from day one and get nothing, not even access to Medicare...meanwhile someone collected points overseas and has all public service for free from day one!*


Been a while since I have posted here, reading from the shadows, Decided to speak as misinformation is being spread. Yes, you pay tax and don't get access to medicare, but like most international students, and temp workers you are oblivious and don't have the correct information. Thus this post

If you pay tax and do not have access to medicare you can apply for Medicare Exemption. 

https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Medicare-levy/Medicare-levy-exemption/

This service is for those people who have pay tax but do not use medicare. 
What the above link says is that if while filing a tax return if you did not have medicare for that FY you can claim the tax which goes towards medicare and you will be refunded the full amount.

Example: A temp person earning $60k AUD pays tax of $11066 out of which the medicare tax is $1200 if you apply for Medicare exemption you will get that $1200 back in tax returns

The fact that you work here as a temp worker and just type whatever comes to your mind without research simply shows that you don't really add any value to this forum but just write stuff out of anger. 

The only reason I made this post is to inform other readers that don't believe everything you read here. 

For people who missed out on previous FY's as International Students and Temp workers who did not have access to Medicare but only had Private Health Insurance fill out the form for that FY and then you can amend your previous tax returns and claim those unused Medicare $$ back, if it sounds too confusing, feel free to drop me a message, or better speak to an accountant.


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

GandalfandBilbo said:


> Been a while since I have posted here, reading from the shadows, Decided to speak as misinformation is being spread. Yes, you pay tax and don't get access to medicare, but like most international students, and temp workers you are oblivious and don't have the correct information. Thus this post
> 
> If you pay tax and do not have access to medicare you can apply for Medicare Exemption.
> 
> ...


You get some money back (not all by the way) but you still pay full Private Health Insurance fee, which go up 9% every year. 

The bigger problem here is what do you get with PHI versus Medicare...basically a US healthcare system. My family has gone through some issues with PHI and I can tell you...it is scary how they treat you here when you don't have Medicare card. I spent years in Middle East with PHI and didn't had as single issue...it was all done with PHI card and minimum 20$ excess payments. Over here, we are expected to pay up front in most clinics and then claim back and pray you get at least 60-70% of money back...or not.

So, again, how can you compare getting Medicare for free vs this PHI only system that basically means bankruptcy in any case of serious illness.

Anyways, I seem to be a black sheep on this forum, so might as well stop writing stuff that doesn't align with people's ideas. I did try to help with what I could, spent lot of time going through EOI data when it was available and posting here...but yeah, I guess my views are radical here in terms of immigration process.


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## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

Neb Ulozny said:


> I guess we'll agree to disagree here.
> 
> Why would someone go through PR application if it has a job offer from Australia? You get the visa and go to work, spend few years there and get PR. At least that's how it works in most countries in the world. I get that Australia is different and that's what I'm trying to point out so hard here.


When someone comes on a Work Visa, it has an end date. It is well known that there are public services offered at a cost and no medical cover. Isn't that clear before moving in on a temp visa? Pathway to PR is *"an option" not a "right"*. Many US H1B holders complain in the same tone when they have issues with renewal, because they have a house, children at school etc etc. Didn't they know that H1B is a temp visa and pathway to Green Card is long and arduous? Why make such risky investment and then whinge about it?

In such a case, why did you or anyone here even come on work visa when you could apply for PR directly? Who is to blame? In hindsight, if you had applied PR 3 years ago, you would've been saved from all the agony. 

Having said that, I agree on the medicare part, and I'm aware UK provides NHS for Work Visa holders and it can be real painful for someone who needs constant medical care and support.



Neb Ulozny said:


> If you're already employed here...you are skilled...period. Why go all the lengths to prove it again and again if the whole thing is about employer and you. Not the government or PTE, or NAATI or whatever else test they come up with. Yes, there is employer sponsored PR but that opens whole new can of worms and dependence on sponsorship again.
> 
> This whole mantra how temp workers "are only temporary here" is what distorts the whole PR vs work visa system. We are sort of expendable and PR applicants are special, but we can also become special if we earn all these points while working on shore...which is what PR applicants aspire to do anyways. It's just madness when you think about it.


Agree on how the system has been mis-used by migrants and it is bound to happen when competition increases. Competition shot up when Trump started applying brakes on US migration programme. Folks who had plans of settling in the US, starting to look down under and you could see a sudden spurt of applicants eyeing the top spot. Points (atleast in ICT) shot up from max of 70 to 90+. I know some who are applying to Australia with a hope of being Citizen one day and travelling back to US on a E3 visa. Foolish thing to even assume that the terms around E3 will stay the same for next 6 or 7 years and I would never make such plans. Now, this is another mis-use too, so how can Oz govt stop this?



Neb Ulozny said:


> Besides that, system has obviously failed, try any Uber ride in Sydney and ask the driver is he on PR and what is his true profession. I guarantee you in 6 out of 10 cases it will be an engineer, accountant or some other highly educated profession...and these poor people can't find job for years in their profession. So what's the point of all these points then?
> 
> It's very simple case of tying PR with employment in the actual profession you are claiming PR for...and that is it, look at NZ immigration system and let me know if you agree with it.


189/190 was setup to invite more skilled workers long back to spruce up the economy and fill the vacant slots with some skilled labour. This was done long back and definitely needs an overhaul. Govt. works on data and for sure have more parameters than we have debating here. 

One final point... *This downturn is NOT caused by Covid alone. Downturn started when Royal Commission was setup for banks and insurance firms and came out with it's findings. Easy credit became a thing of the past and cash-flow in Oz economy slowed down. If one did not see it coming then, I'm sorry, in hindsight, you should've bought a crystal ball.*. Immigration rules hardly favours a migrant, especially during these times. 

To tell you about myself, I was working for 3 years in the UK and had plans to settle using HSMP programme. Right when I had all documents ready, the programme was scrapped and replaced with Tier-I. I knew clearly that the rules around it will make it harder for me to settle permanently and I had to make a choice. I bit the bullet, resigned my job and moved back. This in-spite of me making significant investments just 8 months ago and also being offered a permanent job. Whatever be the case, I realised that new Tier-I will hamper my permanent settlement plans and I had to make other plans. I have no ill feeling about UK or what they did, because Govt is free to act what works best for their country. Like I said, Immigration is an option, not a right..!


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## Moulard (Feb 3, 2017)

JennyWang said:


> I think the initial step is to grant safety haven visas for Hong Kong ppl who are already on-shore. The approx number is 20,000 (in another news article I read).


There is precedence for that with Hawke's decision in June 1989.

Except of course, his announcement was made without consulting cabinet.


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

fugitive_4u said:


> To tell you about myself, I was working for 3 years in the UK and had plans to settle using HSMP programme. Right when I had all documents ready, the programme was scrapped and replaced with Tier-I. I knew clearly that the rules around it will make it harder for me to settle permanently and I had to make a choice. I bit the bullet, resigned my job and moved back. This in-spite of me making significant investments just 8 months ago and also being offered a permanent job. Whatever be the case, I realised that new Tier-I will hamper my permanent settlement plans and I had to make other plans. I have no ill feeling about UK or what they did, because Govt is free to act what works best for their country. Like I said, Immigration is an option, not a right..!


I'll just quote last part to not clutter thread too much with repeated parts.

I mean it's easy to say why didn't someone apply 3 or 4 or 10 yrs ago...that's not how life works right. I myself wasn't even thinking about Australia 3 yrs ago, I got a very good job offer and thought ok why not try that. You can't base your decision to settle somewhere just on the internet information and forums, you have to live there for a while...which is what I'm doing. I myself couldn't find information about medical insurance and how it really works anywhere, apart from their brochures where it's all fantastic and from people already here one would think it's all perfect. Once I got in and my wife did first insurance claim...then we realised how it's nothing like we thought it will be. For example I have a friend who's wife just couldn't settle here, she was under constant anxiety and stress, wanted to go back home to be near family...and they went back. What if he had PR...that would be one spot wasted for someone who is committed to stay. 

Temp visa is just a start of course, for most people, some go somewhere else or back home...who knows what will life bring to you. That visa can also be renewed so it's not like that date hovers over your head every day. 

And I don't understand why is it such a problem if my opinion is that getting a PR after few years of work in a country should not be such a hassle...for example look at the UK. Would you go through same ordeal of all these additional tests and points for PR if you remained in the UK? Of course not, it's a given thing you'll get it for most people. Again, not a right by exact meaning but also not something that people have constant stress about like here in Australia. And there is now a 2 year 482 visa which doesn't have pathway to PR...that is a true temp visa. Others are simply pathway to PR, like everywhere else in the world.

I'll give you example of another friend in Germany who worked for 2 yrs and to papers to work anywhere in EU...no points, no additional tests were required really. It's just normal procedure, no need for additional competitions. I understand anyone who got PR earlier are now defending that system day and night, but in reality it was used to bring people in to a country that was desperate for immigration...those days are over.

Australia can tomorrow decide to kick us all out of the country or change the rules to favor certain categories, who knows and it's the right they have. That's not debatable, but also it's ok to point out obvious flaws in the immigration system. No system is perfect.

I think it's also important for people who arrived here on PR to understand that life with PR and temp visa in Australia is completely different. We live in two different worlds in terms of job security or availability, public services, healthcare...and so on. And now in times of Corona pandemic...it's 100 times more difficult knowing if you loose your job how will you even get back to your country. It's hard to understand frustration of someone who worked many years here that now struggles to get PR (not talking about me).


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## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

I totally understand the context, however, let me clarify some small points.



Neb Ulozny said:


> Temp visa is just a start of course, for most people, some go somewhere else or back home...who knows what will life bring to you. That visa can also be renewed so it's not like that date hovers over your head every day.


Temp visa renewals are not guaranteed. So to assume that you can renew it indefinitely if your employer agrees to extend it is plain wrong. If it was, there would've been auto renewals.



Neb Ulozny said:


> And I don't understand why is it such a problem if my opinion is that getting a PR after few years of work in a country should not be such a hassle...


Perfectly alright for you to think so. Nobody is disputing that. But unfortunately the system doesn't weigh in your local experience or contribution at all. I agree there should've been some category or separate pathway for such applicants.



Neb Ulozny said:


> Would you go through same ordeal of all these additional tests and points for PR if you remained in the UK? Of course not,


Yes, I would, if rules stipulated the same. Rules set in by authorities who are at the helm of affairs. Call me a conformist or whatever..!



Neb Ulozny said:


> Others are simply pathway to PR, like everywhere else in the world.


Pathways are not guaranteed. It is an option, should you choose.



Neb Ulozny said:


> I understand anyone who got PR earlier are now defending that system day and night


I'm at least not defending the system. But the system is in place, so everyone needs to suck up the bitter pill and deal with it. Like I said, system did not favour me when I wanted a PR in another country. I just made my own plans, rather than whinge about it all day. 

I'm just lucky that I happened to be an applicant during shiny days and it's pure luck. If the system hadn't favoured me when I applied here, I would've made other plans. Thats about it..!

Now, lets get back to HongKong, shall we


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

fugitive_4u said:


> Now, lets get back to HongKong, shall we


Just to summarise, nothing is guaranteed in immigration of course, my views are based on imaginary person working in a country without criminal record and integrating into society. Absolutely no reason for that person to not get PR in the normal circumstances. If you loose your job or immigration policy changes in the mean time, it's tough luck but no way out of it really. Anyways, my visa say I may be eligible for PR...this "may be" is a very broad term.

And I agree with you, enough of my views of the immigration world.


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## Himadri (Jun 12, 2017)

sawtinnmaung said:


> Mate,
> 
> You need to realize that AU has humanitarian program to help refugees from all over the world. This is one of the Australian value too.
> 
> ...



100% right on money mate! People need to think Australia as a responsible global citizen.

If one can’t digest the free world and just think individually rather for communities then they need to think are they in right queues.

Australia stands for freedom and that’s what make it unique.


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## Himadri (Jun 12, 2017)

Neb Ulozny said:


> You get some money back (not all by the way) but you still pay full Private Health Insurance fee, which go up 9% every year.
> 
> The bigger problem here is what do you get with PHI versus Medicare...basically a US healthcare system. My family has gone through some issues with PHI and I can tell you...it is scary how they treat you here when you don't have Medicare card. I spent years in Middle East with PHI and didn't had as single issue...it was all done with PHI card and minimum 20$ excess payments. Over here, we are expected to pay up front in most clinics and then claim back and pray you get at least 60-70% of money back...or not.
> 
> ...



I have started enjoying this guy , keep flowing! 


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## ozlife (Jun 4, 2019)

Neb Ulozny said:


> person working in a country without criminal record and integrating into society. Absolutely no reason for that person to not get PR in the normal circumstances.


Why make an assumption of getting PR? Did the temporary visa conditions of your imaginary person stipulate they will be getting PR if they are without a criminal record and if they integrate into society by the time their visa comes to an end? 

Also, was 'integrating into society' clearly defined in the temporary visa grant letter?

If the answer to my questions is yes and yes, then your imaginary person has a strong case to take to the court. If not, then all I have to say is "tough luck".


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## dybydx (Jul 23, 2019)

As this is about the category of visa, let me describe some issues about some visa categories

-WHV: European slackers who don't want to have their stable life back home, flocking to Down Under and make many troubles here (Party, Drug, etc.). There were cases of Bondi Beach and Cairns where these slackers abandon state caution then made a cluster of COVID-19. This is a primary group who is stealing jobs from Australian. Anyway, cannot blame it as Aussies are lazy and do not do these kinds of jobs.

-Student Visa: For a third-world country citizen to let them get into Australia and do a labour job. An ATM machine for the Australian government. Majority of low-skilled labour resources. I'm a victim of this visa from low-quality education here. They are relying on only one "you-know-who" group who aren't competent enough which bring the overall quality of the course lower. No diversity in the university.

-485 Visa: Time buying option for the ex-student visa holder. Again, an ATM machine for the Australian Government through visa fees and the scam PY course.

-189/190/491 Visa: Uber driver visa, Point hunting game for Australian Citizen/Passport. Many of them are not skilled enough to be in the professional industry. That's why they are keeping driving Uber. Also, an indirect ATM machine (again) for the Australian Government to let international students trapped into low-quality education here. Make a false hope to aspirants.

-Protection Visa (Humanitarian visa): Time buying option again, but this might go out of the trend soon.

-GTI Visa: I'm afraid of the future of this visa. It's going to be the fastest pathway for an Uber driver visa for one who has a PhD.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

dybydx said:


> As this is about the category of visa, let me describe some issues about some visa categories
> 
> -WHV: European slackers who don't want to have their stable life back home, flocking to Down Under and make many troubles here (Party, Drug, etc.). There were cases of Bondi Beach and Cairns where these slackers abandon state caution then made a cluster of COVID-19. This is a primary group who is stealing jobs from Australian. Anyway, cannot blame it as Aussies are lazy and do not do these kinds of jobs.
> 
> ...


Looks like someone is Binge watching Breaking bad episodes

Cheers


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## Himadri (Jun 12, 2017)

A latest on this as announced just now-

Hong Kong citizens offered extended visas as Australia suspends extradition agreement

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-09/australia-moves-on-china-extradition-and-visa-issues/12433332


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

ozlife said:


> Why make an assumption of getting PR? Did the temporary visa conditions of your imaginary person stipulate they will be getting PR if they are without a criminal record and if they integrate into society by the time their visa comes to an end?
> 
> Also, was 'integrating into society' clearly defined in the temporary visa grant letter?
> 
> If the answer to my questions is yes and yes, then your imaginary person has a strong case to take to the court. If not, then all I have to say is "tough luck".


I'm not describing current Australia immi system...I am talking about majority of other countries...UK as well. It's perfectly normal to expect a PR after certain number of years spent in one country on eligible visas, without additional points games to be played or begging your employer for sponsorship. 

Citizenship is another story, some countries may take 5 and in some 10 yrs to get it, but permanent residence is nothing more than a check box exercise to enable you piece of mind which doesn't cost an arm and a leg like here.

Bear in mind that everywhere else (except Middle East I presume) you are given access to public healthcare system and schooling on work visa...unlike Australia where they have incentive to keep people off PR to save money and subsidise vulture private health care funds. 

So for most countries, PR is just a long term visa really that's not tied to an employer and a step to citizenship. In Australia it literally means moving from insecure student like life to a normal life again, which I see most people fail to understand here.


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## Himadri (Jun 12, 2017)

NB said:


> Looks like someone is Binge watching Breaking bad episodes
> 
> Cheers



Nah it’s a mix of Narcos, Queen of South and Sacred Games


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## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

Just watched ScoMo's live press conference.

Nothing significant except the following (as per my interpretation)

- Temp work & graduate visa's extended for additional 5 years for around 600 HK'ers who are already here
- Expedited processing for any Temp visas for HK'ers
- Humanitarian visa's will be available as usual
- Business Visa's will be processed on priority

Govt expects this to affect only in hundreds..!

Pathway to PR remains an option as usual


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## Himadri (Jun 12, 2017)

fugitive_4u said:


> Just watched ScoMo's live press conference.
> 
> Nothing significant except the following (as per my interpretation)
> 
> ...



And also the Extradition treaty with Hong Kong being made void.


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## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

Himadri said:


> And also the Extradition treaty with Hong Kong being made void.


Sorry, I didn't bother coz no one here would be interested on emigration options


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## Himadri (Jun 12, 2017)

fugitive_4u said:


> Sorry, I didn't bother coz no one here would be interested on emigration options



I was worried about myself! I won’t even fly through HK anymore- you never know what might happen in those lands.

At least they can’t extradite now for some Facebook posts


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Well, as An Australian (now resident in Europe), I generally don't approve of the LNP government's immigration approach to asylum seekers, refugees, New Zealanders, overseas students, temporary visas, or PR, because I think they are variously inappropriately harsh and for example: 


do not meet Australia's international obligations re asylum seekers and refugees;
don't give fair rights to Kiwis raised in Australia and don't match NZ's approach to Aussies; 
are a total con at extremely high cost to students for often poor or non-existent education, reduce access to uni places for Australians and have been shown to increase the cost of tertiary education for Australians (remember most PR seekers are hoping to one day become Australian citizens); 
the whole temp visa thing blew up around 2008-2013 (can't remember exactly when) at which time and largely as a result of the global financial crisis, arguably a majority of temp visa holders lost their jobs and had no option but to leave at short notice, and of course access to health care is totally inappropriate for these visa holders;
PR, whilst I don't agree that it should necessarily be a right for those who arrive on temp visas (think about it - the requirements for temp visas are not the same as those for PR); I believe is based on highly dubious data and skills categories leading to many such migrants arriving in Australia expecting to find jobs that either aren't available for their specific skills and/or the areas where they are required to settle

As for HongKong, I am absolutely in agreement with Penny Wong, I support the governments decision but I believe it does not go far enough (far from it).


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

EverHopeful said:


> Well, as An Australian (now resident in Europe), I generally don't approve of the LNP government's immigration approach to asylum seekers, refugees, New Zealanders, overseas students, temporary visas, or PR, because I think they are variously inappropriately harsh and for example:
> 
> 
> do not meet Australia's international obligations re asylum seekers and refugees;
> ...


But why, temp visa holder is vetted by the employer who has the biggest interest in to bringing a genuine employee and don't care about fake tests like NAATI or generic points for experience. They care about your real experience...I had 3 interviews with employer here to be even considered for the position and the final technical one was very thorough. English test is on the spot, if you can't talk through the interview then what use of your max PTE points? They checked my degrees as well...the only thing that was different is that they don't care about your age either.

It is totally different than just collecting letters from companies and tax returns to prove experience for PR...employers are investing their money in you and want to get the investment back. Plus you are employed from the day one you land here.

We all know points competition for PR now is just for the sake of competition, no use for it in the real world. Besides, states invite people with 65 points so really...artificial competition that has nothing to do with ones employment or true skills. Immigration is about bringing skilled people in who can contribute to the economy...I see no difference in this between PR and temp visa holders. If nothing, getting a job from overseas is extremely tough in this market...you really must be at top of your game to get an offer here.


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## LordD (Jun 19, 2019)

mustafa01 said:


> I don't understand what timing is right to flee prosecution which threatens your life and basic freedom. For rest of the other things regarding onshore people, I agree with your here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, you took all that REALLY personally! By timing I mean we have two unprecedented events merging at the same "time" in Australian immigration causing much undue stress to all parties involved! Yep the commonwealth can do as they please and again, the collision of the two events causes stress for all parities involved! When the commonwealth is making these decisions on the fly no one can say with complete certainty what they may decide for GSM if their objective is to pick and choose which refugees they think are "worthy" due to their "skills and wealth", especially at a time when they have cut GSM due to the very reasons that according to the article provided would add 10s of thousands causing the same pressures on the system.

It is the Australian gov't that is using this situation in HK to their favor, not me! I find the politics behind their methods deplorable, either people are refugees and need asylum or they are not regardless of their wealth or skills! It is now being reported that they are now talking hundreds and not 10s of thousands so what is that really all about as there would certainly be more than a few hundred that would need to seek asylum? Does Australia really see them as refugees?

Now I would greatly appreciate it if you would check your attitude and not try to assume you know how I feel with regards to HK. From what I've been seeing many are continuing to take a stand and with the international community behind them I think that is very commendable and I am most hopeful they are able to gain traction so no one has to leave the land where they want to stay! Now should that deteriorate at a rapid rate where people are persecuted and have no choice but to leave then absolutely the international community needs to take a stand and welcome as many as possible without regard to their means and skills!


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

You all need to understand that the Australian Government's decision in relation to people fro Hong Kong does not impact you - or perhaps those of you who think it does should actually read it.

Fortunately there are those on this thread who clearly do understand that - but unfortunately the message is not getting through to others.

If you want to worry about something, IMHO it should be the impacts of the Covid-19 and associated economic crisis because that is a real threat to everybody in Australia, those hoping or trying to return, and those trying to immigrate.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

And think about this

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-16/unemployment-jobs-coronavirus-june-2020-abs/12460890

Think too about the large numbers of people being permanently laid off from secure jobs that they have held for years.

No need to worry about the minor concessions made to Hong Kong citizens currently in Australia. :faint:


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## TheEndofDays (Apr 13, 2011)

Australia's skilled visa allocation to Hongkongers has more than doubled since China's crackdown


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