# Interested on moving to the Netherlands or Denmark, which one should I choose?



## adri95 (Oct 17, 2019)

Hi everyone,

I'm currently interested on moving to the Netherlands or Denmark... I like both countries. However, the Netherlands seem more modern to me but I'm still confused of which one should I choose. 

I'm European (from Spain) and I can afford to move to both.

I consider very important these things:
- Low in racism.
- LGBT+ friendly (yes, I'm LGBT).
- Safety.
- Able to get an IT job without speaking Dutch or Danish (English is not my native language but I have a pretty good level on English).
- With no hurry to learn the local language (I'll learn it eventually, but learning a new language can take many years!)
- Good public transport system (I don't like driving nor taking a bike)

Thank you in advance


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## adri95 (Oct 17, 2019)

Sorry for replying but I can't find the option to edit my main post. I forgot to say that I would prefer to live in a large city such as Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Rotterdam instead of a town.


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## expat16 (Jun 11, 2016)

Hi there,

As much as I dislike The Netherlands (after living there nearly 6 years), I have to say that in my view it is likely the better of the two.

They are very similar countries but from what I know and have heard Denmark is more insular and may be more hostile to foreigners.

NL has the 30% tax ruling for highly skilled migrants, so if you qualify be sure to apply as soon as you get a job (you have to apply for it within the first 4 months). Also, in order to qualify you must have moved to NL for the job, so in your case, I would wait to get a job offer before moving there.

I worked in tech sector and everything was in English, definitely no need to know Dutch.

I don't like to cycle either (at least not in the city) so I relied on the tram when I lived in Amsterdam. Honestly, it was very frustrating because something is always under construction so the tram route was changed frequently, or if there is an accident or electrical issue, the trams are stuck. 

So, what I recommend is finding a place where you can walk to work. Oh, and then there is the horrendous weather: wind, rain, grey clouds (which makes walking not so enjoyable).

I also lived in The Hague and preferred it over Amsterdam. Amsterdam is like a circus with the tourism, The Hague is more beautiful in my opinion, more livable, and you have the beach nearby.


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## Mforster (Mar 27, 2019)

Agree with Expat16 where dislike is concerned! I have lived and worked in NL for around 30 years..... in the Randstad area (Leiden). I'm British, speak Dutch fluently but have never felt that it was my home country. My partner is South African. We met in NL, he has Dutch parents who emigrated to SA. He has also lived in NL for about 15 years but never felt it was his home country. I have never lived in Denmark but have heard that it's even more expensive! than NL. I would recommend you get yourself connected with other Spanish speaking expats (South Americans/Spanish) ASAP. NL is very organised, lots of Dutchies speak English. Leiden or The Hague are both much nicer than Amsterdam in my opinion. LGBT tolerance is generally pretty good in most places in NL as far as I'm aware. However, NL is very very calvanistic....it's hard to explain but you if you live there for a while you will start to notice/question things. Don't get me wrong.... it's not a bad country but it's not your culture either and probably never will be.... wait until you get an invite to a circle party (birthday party...)! Anyway, whatever you choose to do, Buena suerte! It will be a good experience one way or another.


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## adri95 (Oct 17, 2019)

Thanks to you both for sharing your experiences... Well, after seeing that Denmark is much less welcoming and being a foreigner seems to be harder there, I'll go for the Netherlands. And I have been thinking about living in Leiden as after doing some research, it seems to be a safe city with a low muslim population compared to Amsterdam, Rotterdam and even Utrecht (I don't have anything against muslims but... I know that many of them are anti-LGBT due to their religion and their countries).

I have a question though. Do you know if there are special tickets for using the dutch public transport? If so, for what kind of public transport? 

For instance, here where I live, I take the bus every day and I have a card that can have up to 10 travels, so once I go by bus 10 times, I have to charge it each time. Even I could choose to pay a certain amount of money (I don't remember) and having unlimited travels during a month.

Is there something similar in the Netherlands in order to around Leiden by tram or even if I have to go to Amsterdam in case I get a job in there? I'll try to find a job in Leiden though, but in case I can't find anything, I'll try in Amsterdam as it only takes 30 minutes by train from what I've seen.


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## Mforster (Mar 27, 2019)

adri95 said:


> Is there something similar in the Netherlands in order to around Leiden by tram or even if I have to go to Amsterdam in case I get a job in there? I'll try to find a job in Leiden though, but in case I can't find anything, I'll try in Amsterdam as it only takes 30 minutes by train from what I've seen.


The card used in NL for public transport (train, bus and tram) is the OVC (Openbaar Vervoer chipcard). Very similar to the oyster card in London UK. You check in/check out by scanning the card. BTW, Leiden doesn't have trams, only buses and trains. It is indeed a good place for getting to lots of places by train (Amsterdam, The Hague, Rotterdam and Utrecht) all within an hours' travel. If, of course, the trains are not delayed....
Another place you might want to consider for living is Haarlem. Similar to Leiden and also good for commuting to work.
You should also have a look at Hoofddorp for jobs (not to live). Just 10 minutes from Schiphol airport. Lots of companies there.


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## expat16 (Jun 11, 2016)

Yes, as the poster above says there is the OV chipkaart.

However, if you want to get one before you move (or maybe even for the first few weeks you are there) you will have get an anonymous one. 

I think this is because a personal OV chipkaart has to be linked to your bank account (?) (which, at least when I was there, had to be a Dutch bank account), so first you need to open a bank account etc.

Once you have a personal OV chipkaart you can set up automatic recharge. Also, with the personal one you can get better deals, like you can pay 50 eur/yr to get discounted daluren (off peak hours). And also someone can ride with you with a discount.

Also, be aware that to check in for the trains you need to have at least 20 eur in your card. This is also the amount they will charge if you forget to check out (might be more now though). 

If you don't have a (personal or anonymous) chipkaart you can buy train tickets online as ns.nl (they are cheaper than at the station machines). No need to print them.

I don't remember all very well so take all this with a grain of salt!


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## Mforster (Mar 27, 2019)

Don't know when you were in NL last but what you describe is still the present situation as far as I'm aware. Although, I didn't use public transport unless I had to. I preferred to cycle or drive (and stand in traffic jams on the A4 motorway.....):


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## b0ll0cks-to-brexit (Oct 25, 2019)

Having been in NL and DK, I'll have to agree to above post, as NL would be more preferred place to live. NL has more inclusive culture than DK.


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