# What keeps Quer�taro safe?



## elsonador

*What keeps Querétaro safe?*

Hello all,

Long time since I have posted, I have been keeping to reading posts and exploring.

Anyway odd timing with the recent pick up in posts about Querétaro, as I too am exploring the city as a possible option.

Whenever anyone asks an expat how the crime/safety is in the city, everyone seems to say there is little to no crime. This is interesting to me, because the city has a population slightly over one million I believe. I have heard it is not in the route or way or territory that the cartels use/want, but with one million people living there I'd assume it would attract some attention. 

Does the crime really consistent of only petty theft and random crimes? Is this a safe, fun, place to raise a family?

Looking forward to hearing from anybody living in, or knowledgeable of Querétaro.

Gracias a todos,
elsonador


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## Ken Wood

I live in Querétaro, near the Plaza de Toros.  The neighborhood is not gated and I know of no other expats in the area.  In other words, it is a typical Mexican neighborhood.  I have been spending considerable time here for the last 10 years, mother-in-law is here, and have lived here full time since mid 2011, my retirement date.  I agree that the city does have a reputation of having very few problems associated with big crime.  I cannot provide any personal experiences that would counter this perspective.  Obviously, if you leave your toolbox out overnight on the front lawn, it will quite likely " take legs" before dawn, but, that is the case anywhere.  

I attribute some of this tranquility to the high visibility of police and army both in the city and on all the major arteries into and out of the city. Maybe, because of the enormous industrial base in the city, there are a few more tax pesos to spend in the area of peace officers. To pass through the city of Querétaro with the intent of taking any contraband to the US, one would have to first pass through, or at least very close to DF, and I believe that, though DF has had a few problems recently, the smart crooks still avoid it at all costs.


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## Longford

Queretaro has largely been spared the upward spike in crime and violence because, I believe, it's geographical position makes it almost insignificant to the drug cartels which dominate so many parts of Mexico. I think, too, the strong international business presence in Queretaro, and it's industrial atmosphere contribute to the lessened levels of crime and violence. Mexico doesn't maintain a credible database of crimes and crimes which do occur aren't universally classified throughout the country and it's not always easy or possible to make comparisons between cities when it comes to crimes other than the ones involving horrific cartel-induced violence. I have expat and Mexican friends who live in Queretaro and I've visited on occassion but, other than for the historic center of the city ... it's not an enviornment/city I would consider moving to. Each of us, obviously, has our own likes/dislikes/needs/wants. Best wishes with your research of places which you may retire/relocate to.


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## TundraGreen

What I find different about Queretaro (and I lived there for 3 months) is not the level of crime, but the level of cleanliness. Qro seems to have more money than other cities and uses some of it to keep the historic center clean. There are ladies in orange coats out sweeping the streets all the time.

Regarding crime, I don't know what the statistics are. I had one friend, a young female, who was assaulted and groped on the street in Qro. The worst that I have heard about in Guadalajara are friends who had their cell phone stolen out of their hands.


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## Guategringo

I researched the city through Mexicans that live there. My wife has family who live in Chetumal and they have very good friends in Queretaro that have lived there their entire lives and would not live anywhere else in the country. They say that for them, there is no other place as safe, clean or secure as Queretaro. They also claim the universities have the best faculties and get this - all of the churches in the city help protect them against bad vibes entering the city.... I am beginning to believe that. 

We also spoke to the law firm that my wife will work with and possibly become a partner in and three of the partners are from other countries in Latin America and spoke so highly of the city, the schools, both high schools and universitie,s and of the safety... 

Cannot wait to get there!!!!


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## Hound Dog

Interesting points made by the last three contributors. It´s really hard to gauge the crime in any city in Mexico. The authorities in Queretaro, a very attractive and economically vibrant metropolis, have a stake in protecting the city´s image but then, so did the authorities in the wealthy and industrially vibrant city of Monterrey which I used to transit often with a feeling of security back in the early 2000s on my way to San Antonio on brief business trips. Then, a couple of years ago, due to the city´s strategic geographical importance, things went to hell virtuallly overnight. But, it turns out Metro Guadalajara has experienced some gruesome crime lately and I can assure the reader that, while we on the shores of Lake Chapala used to concern ourselves primarily with home security compromised by local punks (every place inhabited by a few thousand humans has local punks), the crime scene here at the lake has recently become far more complex. 

So, the issue is not what town in which one may choose to reside at any given point in time but how one gauges the complex issue of one´s security while living in that town so chosen and whether or not that sense of security or insecurity will be maintained over time until one expires. I was a commercial banker in Downtown Oakland, California for years - a crime ridden hellhole but with a few damn good restaurants and a fine port. In the eight years or so before I transferred to a job in the San Francisco Financial District across the bay, I suffered several violent criminal acts in the streets of Downtown Oakland and in the bank facility itself. The only redeeming factor was that my boss, who was headquatered in San Francisco, was afraid to take the BART train across the bay and walk the several blocks from the BART station to my branch so he rarely showed up to discover that I was either at the gym or toasting important bank clients with countless rounds of martinis starting at about noon. I used to tell him that walking around Downtown Oakland was not so dangerous as hehad surmised. I suggested he simply take a $20 Bill (this was the 1980s - today I´d suggest a $100 Bill) and dangle it out of his back pocket so any thieves hanging about on the street could just take the dinero and not have to whap him side the head.

Now, today (2013), Dawg lives at Lake Chapala but also San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas. San Cristóbal and Chiapas in general are reputed to be safe and have a low crime rate. This is a local joke. The reason the forests on Chiapas, at least in the rainy zone in the east, are so green and fecund is because of all the bodies buried that at 3:00AM. Get serious. The keys to staying safe in Mexico, as in Oakland are:
* Get home before dark normally speaking.
* Never stare at any street ruffian directly in the eyes. Don´t even glance at him/her.
* Bear in mind that if a neighborhood you are walking or driving through looks dangerous; it is.
* Never stroll around midtown Tijuana or Oakland at 2:00AM answering in the affirmative if some hot chick in in butt-hugging hotpants asks you if want a date. You do not want this date unless you are Hugh Grant and then only with black chicks on Sunset Blvd. 
* Yeah, I know you used to score drugs back in Dubuque from Ole John Bob but resist the urge to buy from some guy with whom you didn´t attend high school in the 1970s.

Lession concluded for now but remember to watch yo butt.


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## Isla Verde

Guategringo said:


> My wife has family who live in Chetumal and they have very good friends in Queretaro that have lived there their entire lives and would not live anywhere else in the country.. .


No matter where they are from, most Mexicans would say that about the city they were born in, and probably still live in, whether or not it has all the charms that Querétaro indeed does enjoy.


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## Guategringo

Isla Verde said:


> No matter where they are from, most Mexicans would say that about the city they were born in, and probably still live in, whether or not it has all the charms that Querétaro indeed does enjoy.


I hate to say this to such a nice lady, but Isla I disagree. Many people who live in the same place their entire lives is because they are just plain STUCK there. Often times they willl be even more negative about the city they live in if it is changing around them and they cannot get out... 

All I can say it that hearing postive remarks from other people from Latin America was heartening..


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## Guategringo

Lession concluded for now but remember to watch yo butt.[/QUOTE]

Talk about going off on a tangent!!! WOW dawg we went from Queretaro to Monterrey, to Tijuana and up to the Bay Area!!! 

I also disagree. If you have to be at home before dark than your life is limited no matter where you live. I have walked the streets of Guatemala City, San Salvador, NYC, Chicago and even Rio after midnight without worrying about my security.. of course if could have been the fifth of Glenfiddich inside me that helped!!! 

I believe Queretaro to be one of the safer places I have looked into in Mexico and I am headed there in 29 days!!!


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## Isla Verde

Guategringo said:


> I hate to say this to such a nice lady, but Isla I disagree. Many people who live in the same place their entire lives is because they are just plain STUCK there. Often times they willl be even more negative about the city they live in if it is changing around them and they cannot get out...
> 
> All I can say it that hearing postive remarks from other people from Latin America was heartening..


In my considerable experience living in Mexico, I have learned that the vast majority of Mexicans end up living in the city or town they were born in, because they want to be near their families. This seems to be true even for those who have studied or even worked abroad or in other cities in Mexico.

It's fine to disagree, in a civilized way, of course, with nice people like me!


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## Hound Dog

_


Guategringo said:



Lession concluded for now but remember to watch yo butt.

Click to expand...





Talk about going off on a tangent!!! WOW dawg we went from Queretaro to Monterrey, to Tijuana and up to the Bay Area!!! 

I also disagree. If you have to be at home before dark than your life is limited no matter where you live. I have walked the streets of Guatemala City, San Salvador, NYC, Chicago and even Rio after midnight without worrying about my security.. of course if could have been the fifth of Glenfiddich inside me that helped!!! 

I believe Queretaro to be one of the safer places I have looked into in Mexico and I am headed there in 29 days!!!

Click to expand...

_OK, Guategringo, I take back that comment about getting home before dark but I do understand the Glenfiddich toot to make one feel invincible only in my case that would be Herradura Blanco Tequila. We don´t go out in Ajijic much at night mainly because we are old as sin and I am just turning 71 years of age and don't like to be in a room full of people who, when they sit down, are unsure as to whether they will shortly arise without calling Cruz Roja. I clearly continue to appear to be 35 while all the other old farts in Ajijic are tragically fragile looking. 

In San Cristóbal de Las Casas the evening crowd is more diversified so we go out after dark often. 

You seem like a amusing fellow to me. Good luck in Queretaro, three fabulous mid -town plazas but, otherwise, full of coprorate types who may bore your socks off. I can´t wait to hear from someone who moved from fabulous but funky Guatemala to sterile Queretaro. I´ll go out on a limb and bet $100Pesos you only last in Queretaro two years and then would be on the first train to Guatemala City if there were any passenger trains to Guatemala City from Queretaro.


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## redraidermty

I commented this with a couple of people at work and they gave me the same answer. 
Rumor has it that all the immediate family of a lot of drug cartels live in Qro and there's some kind of truce in the city. This is just a rumor but I think is worth considering it.


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## TundraGreen

redraidermty said:


> I commented this with a couple of people at work and they gave me the same answer.
> Rumor has it that all the immediate family of a lot of drug cartels live in Qro and there's some kind of truce in the city. This is just a rumor but I think is worth considering it.


A lot of the families of drug lords live in Guadalajara too, especially in some of the more expensive neighborhoods. All that has meant lately is that some of the drug violence occurs in some nice neighborhoods.


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## elsonador

Thanks for all the input. Interesting, I will be traveling to Querétaro next month. I'll have to see for myself what it has to offer.


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## mickisue1

Keep in mind that there are gangs, gang violence and random violence in the US, as well. Even in places you would consider to be "safe".

An article in today's paper talked about a local "crazy man", the kind who threatened to shoot kids who trespassed, in a small town in AL. He forced his way onto the school bus yesterday, demanded that the driver give him two little boys, and when he refused, shot him four times and grabbed an 8 year old.

They--the crazy and the child--are now in a bunker on the man's property.

If you are looking for a place with NO violence, then build your own bunker, and sit there and meditate. If you want to live a rich and rewarding life, then learn what you can about the particular dangers in wherever you find yourself, and move to avoid them. Never assume that you are in danger, and never assume that you are not, is the best way that I've learned to deal with things.


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## conklinwh

Guategringo said:


> Lession concluded for now but remember to watch yo butt.


Talk about going off on a tangent!!! WOW dawg we went from Queretaro to Monterrey, to Tijuana and up to the Bay Area!!! 

I also disagree. If you have to be at home before dark than your life is limited no matter where you live. I have walked the streets of Guatemala City, San Salvador, NYC, Chicago and even Rio after midnight without worrying about my security.. of course if could have been the fifth of Glenfiddich inside me that helped!!! 

I believe Queretaro to be one of the safer places I have looked into in Mexico and I am headed there in 29 days!!![/QUOTE]

Some of what dawn says is true, but that basically everywhere. Qro is a city of some million people and with that there is crime. Best way to avoid it is to look at areas where you might want to live. Walk around a little and see how you feel. One thing that we really like about Qro is how many people are out at night in centro. I don't like to drive the 45min back to Pozos at night for a lot of reasons, so we tend to stay overnight in Qro, have a great dinner and then just enjoy the activities. If you are really into night time activities, there is a "ghost" tour about 2AM.
What we have yet to hear about in Qro is any serious drug related violence.


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## mickisue1

conklinwh said:


> Talk about going off on a tangent!!! WOW dawg we went from Queretaro to Monterrey, to Tijuana and up to the Bay Area!!!
> 
> I also disagree. If you have to be at home before dark than your life is limited no matter where you live. I have walked the streets of Guatemala City, San Salvador, NYC, Chicago and even Rio after midnight without worrying about my security.. of course if could have been the fifth of Glenfiddich inside me that helped!!!
> 
> I believe Queretaro to be one of the safer places I have looked into in Mexico and I am headed there in 29 days!!!
> 
> Some of what dawn says is true, but that basically everywhere. Qro is a city of some million people and with that there is crime. Best way to avoid it is to look at areas where you might want to live. Walk around a little and see how you feel. One thing that we really like about Qro is how many people are out at night in centro. I don't like to drive the 45min back to Pozos at night for a lot of reasons, so we tend to stay overnight in Qro, have a great dinner and then just enjoy the activities. If you are really into night time activities, there is a "ghost" tour about 2AM.
> What we have yet to hear about in Qro is any serious drug related violence.


...And, with one glass of wine in me, I walked the streets of downtown Chicago, alone. Got accosted by people wanting me to buy overpriced "newspapers" but said, "No, thanks," and kept walking. 

Really, it was that, or eat in what passed for a restaurant at HoJo's just off the Magnificent Mile.


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## Guategringo

> Some of what dawn says is true, but that basically everywhere. Qro is a city of some million people and with that there is crime. Best way to avoid it is to look at areas where you might want to live. Walk around a little and see how you feel. One thing that we really like about Qro is how many people are out at night in centro. I don't like to drive the 45min back to Pozos at night for a lot of reasons, so we tend to stay overnight in Qro, have a great dinner and then just enjoy the activities. If you are really into night time activities, there is a "ghost" tour about 2AM.
> What we have yet to hear about in Qro is any serious drug related violence.


We will be in the centro most Saturday's I am sure. Sunday is family day with our two boys. I was raised in a very Italian family and no one could leave the house on Sunday until after dinner was served at 2 pm on the dot. So Saturday will be with the wife and kids if they want to head downtown and we will be withing walking distance from the centro in the house I rented... I do not worry about violence. If it happens it happens. I have been to so many that are HORRIBLE some on my own free will and others with friends, so as long as I feel I am safe, I know my wife will be safe... of course standing 6foot9 helps!!!!


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## jade919

Hi,
We live in San Miguel de Allende, a 45 minute drive from Queretaro, where we go frequently. 
It is a very safe city, as is San Miguel. In fact, it is so safe in general that it is rumored the drug kingpins keep homes there for their families, since it is away from the crime scenes, and they seem to make sure it stays that way. Of course I don't know that as a fact, but it seems right. Why else would Queretaro and this historical area be safe? Something is helping to protect it beside highway routes. And since the highways are so good, there is no reason illegal transportation wouldn't occur there as in other places; all routes north go to the USA, the biggest consumer of drugs in the world. But for some reason, there doesn't seem to be this kind of trafficking.

Another good reason for Queretaro: it is a growing metropolis and was completely void of the negative consequences of the economic downturn in the past 5 years. It kept growing as did its economy. There are many, many multi-national companies there and moving in more. Construction is everywhere for these clean industries. So, you know you would be in a relatively safe economy as well as safe from the other dangers. Just wanted to mention this as something for you to think about.

Last observation: the city grew dramatically after the major earthquake some years back in Mexico City. The big companies did not want to take the chance to build on a location that is open to this kind of natural danger. You are high up--6000 ft, so no water catastrophes are possible, and earthquakes are not likely there either. I mean as the general wisdom and science of this area goes. There are many, many dormant volcano funnels, but no activity of any sort. The most danger you may have to face, as in any big city, is the air polution and traffic. But no escaping that anywhere.

WE go to Queretaro frequently for shopping at the big American box stores, like Walmart, Cosco, Sam's Club, Sanborns, Home Depot and similar, large furniture and department stores. I have never witnessed any kind of event occuring in the 2.5 years we have been in this area. 

I think it is "safe" to think that moving to Queretaro is a good option.

We are moving from here, but only because we bought a house on the Sea of Cortes and are trading an incredible art and cultural scene for the water; otherwise we would have stayed here forever. We would have liked to have residences in both places, but we can't afford it, at least not now. We live 45 minutes from Queretaro, on the highway to Queretaro, 9.5 km just outside of San Miguel. We enjoy the country life style while still being so close to the culture of San Miguel and a big , equally cultural city the size of Queretaro. Let me know if this kind of location might suit you and I can put you in contact with our landlord. We are moving in 2-3 months.
Best of luck, Jade


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## trpt2345

mickisue1 said:


> Keep in mind that there are gangs, gang violence and random violence in the US, as well. Even in places you would consider to be "safe".
> 
> If you are looking for a place with NO violence, then build your own bunker, and sit there and meditate. If you want to live a rich and rewarding life, then learn what you can about the particular dangers in wherever you find yourself, and move to avoid them. Never assume that you are in danger, and never assume that you are not, is the best way that I've learned to deal with things.


Very true. Someone on my old block in Chicago in a "safe" neighborhood was shot and killed last week on the street. There is a drug war in the US too that kills thousands a year but no one wants to talk about it.

We have been in Morelia for two years now and have never felt unsafe at any time. We live in La Loma, and a waggish friend said it's a very safe neighborhood, your neighbors only rob the country and not your house (lots of politicos). By and large people don't have guns here either.


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## elsonador

jade919 said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> Another good reason for Queretaro: it is a growing metropolis and was completely void of the negative consequences of the economic downturn in the past 5 years. It kept growing as did its economy. There are many, many multi-national companies there and moving in more. Construction is everywhere for these clean industries. So, you know you would be in a relatively safe economy as well as safe from the other dangers. Just wanted to mention this as something for you to think about.
> 
> Last observation: the city grew dramatically after the major earthquake some years back in Mexico City. The big companies did not want to take the chance to build on a location that is open to this kind of natural danger. You are high up--6000 ft, so no water catastrophes are possible, and earthquakes are not likely there either. I mean as the general wisdom and science of this area goes. There are many, many dormant volcano funnels, but no activity of any sort. The most danger you may have to face, as in any big city, is the air polution and traffic. But no escaping that anywhere.
> 
> WE go to Queretaro frequently for shopping at the big American box stores, like Walmart, Cosco, Sam's Club, Sanborns, Home Depot and similar, large furniture and department stores. I have never witnessed any kind of event occuring in the 2.5 years we have been in this area.
> 
> I think it is "safe" to think that moving to Queretaro is a good option.
> 
> Best of luck, Jade


Thanks for the surplus of information on Queretaro, I am actually going to check out a property in the near future. Everything you have said has further confirmed my thoughts of Queretaro being a good choice, but we are unsure if we want to be in a bigger city or in a small town closer to the coast. Things to think about.

Thanks again for the input!


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## jade919

Hi,
We live in San Miguel de Allende, a 45 minute drive from Queretaro, where we go frequently. 
It is a very safe city, as is San Miguel. In fact, it is so safe in general that it is rumored the drug kingpins keep homes there for their families, since it is away from the crime scenes, and they seem to make sure it stays that way. Of course I don't know that as a fact, but it seems right. Why else would Queretaro and this historical area be safe? Something is helping to protect it beside highway routes. And since the highways are so good, there is no reason illegal transportation wouldn't occur there as in other places; all routes north go to the USA, the biggest consumer of drugs in the world. But for some reason, there doesn't seem to be this kind of trafficking.

Another good reason for Queretaro: it is a growing metropolis and was completely void of the negative consequences of the economic downturn in the past 5 years. It kept growing as did its economy. There are many, many multi-national companies there and moving in more. Construction is everywhere for these clean industries. So, you know you would be in a relatively safe economy as well as safe from the other dangers. Just wanted to mention this as something for you to think about.

Last observation: the city grew dramatically after the major earthquake some years back in Mexico City. The big companies did not want to take the chance to build on a location that is open to this kind of natural danger. You are high up--6000 ft, so no water catastrophes are possible, and earthquakes are not likely there either. I mean as the general wisdom and science of this area goes. There are many, many dormant volcano funnels, but no activity of any sort. The most danger you may have to face, as in any big city, is the air polution and traffic. But no escaping that anywhere.

WE go to Queretaro frequently for shopping at the big American box stores, like Walmart, Cosco, Sam's Club, Sanborns, Home Depot and similar, large furniture and department stores. I have never witnessed any kind of event occuring in the 2.5 years we have been in this area. 

I think it is "safe" to think that moving to Queretaro is a good option.

We are moving from here, but only because we bought a house on the Sea of Cortes and are trading an incredible art and cultural scene for the water; otherwise we would have stayed here forever. We would have liked to have residences in both places, but we can't afford it, at least not now. We live 45 minutes from Queretaro, on the highway to Queretaro, 9.5 km just outside of San Miguel. We enjoy the country life style while still being so close to the culture of San Miguel and a big , equally cultural city the size of Queretaro. Let me know if this kind of location might suit you and I can put you in contact with our landlord. We are moving in 2-3 months.
Best of luck, Jade


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## PabloSa

jade919 said:


> WE go to Queretaro frequently for shopping at the big American box stores, like Walmart, Cosco, Sam's Club, Sanborns, Home Depot and similar, large furniture and department stores. I have never witnessed any kind of event occuring in the 2.5 years we have been in this area.


Sanborn's is a Mexican company 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupo_Sanborns

I am Mexican, and I joined this forum so I may be able to help my dear gringos (I use it with no insult implied, I really do like Americans) understand and learn a bit about this city.

I've lived in Querétaro since 1990. I was born in Mexico City in 1981, and when my dad convinced the company he works for to move R&D headquarters to Querétaro, we moved here (he wanted to raise his family in a smaller city).

As other posters have already said, Querétaro is safer than most cities in México, though it does have its crime as all places do.

I want to give you the pros and cons I personally think Querétaro has.

Pros:
- Clean (in Mexican standards. You may find it just as clean as any other civilized city, no more, no less)
- Beautiful Historical Center (kept clean, many parking lots, regional small commerce encouraged, lots of churches and several museums to explore and visit)
- Many Universities (ITESM campus [my alma mater], UVM campus, UAQ, ITQ, UTEQ, UNAM campus, Cuahtémoc Medical U., Politécnico campus, and several others)
- A LOT of places to eat, from your typical American place (Burger King, McDonald's, IHOP...), to international restaurants (Italian, French, Indian, Japanese, Chinese, Argentinian, Brazilian), and obviously Mexican food (not your hard tortilla taco's, and not only genuine tacos, but real gourmet Mexican food).
- Expected Big City amenities (hospitals, cinemas, shopping centers [the largest shopping center in Latin America is being built next to Jurica], veterinarians, parks, gyms, etc.)
- Relatively safe (compared to other cities in México/the world, though Mérida is safer according to many Mexicans. Even with its "safe city" reputation, I try not to walk alone in dark places, always lock my house and chose to live in a gated neighbourhood).

Cons:
- Vertical development is almost null. The city grows horizontally, which means longer distances to move from place to place, with more traffic along the way, and more pollution from cars having to move a longer distance, especially public transportation ("microbuses"). This happens because, many years ago, it was forbidden to build higher than the domes of the churches. However, after the government issued new regulations, some places have recently been granted permission to build high raise buildings, but most of the city is layed out in a horizontal way.
- Public transportation sucks. There is no subway, no light train, and buses are not there to give a service to people, but to race each other to the death (literally sometimes).
- Immigration from other Mexican places sometimes brings also their bad costums: they seem to ignore trash cans, drive as if in a race circuit, honk their car horns to hurry you to get out of the way, etc.
- Water supply is rationed (Querétaro is in a semi-desert location), so you should look for a house that has a cistern/reservoir; and water in Querétaro is very "hard" (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water), so you should pay attention to your tubing system and make sure it doesn't get clogged after some years.

All in all, Querétaro is a great place to live, but like all great places, it is attracting more and more people, some contributing to make it a great city, some contributing to worsen it.

Anyhow, if you choose to live here, welcome!


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## PabloSa

Hound Dog said:


> ...sterile Queretaro.


_Sterile_  Querétaro? Please elaborate...


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## elsonador

PabloSa,

Thanks so much for the input. I like the mention of it being more of a "horizontal" city and thus more pollution due to traffic. Great to know!


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## jade919

To add one more comment. When there is good employment, stable economies and a growing industry, there is proportional level of DECREASED crime. 

Many people in Mexico, during the past five years, have had to resort to petty crime to survive and feed their kids. With unemployment, crime increased everywhere; with good economies and jobs, people do not resort to crime, nor do they tend TO TOLERATE CRIME, and let that opinion be known to politicians. 

And yes, I agree with the issue of very visible security. It works. We drive through the San Miguel de Allende-Queretaro highway all the time, and there are checkpoints and a military presence that tell us we are being protected as much as possilbe. I don't mind the occassional five minute inspection if that helps deter any kind of illegal trafficking.


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## PabloSa

elsonador said:


> PabloSa,
> 
> Thanks so much for the input. I like the mention of it being more of a "horizontal" city and thus more pollution due to traffic. Great to know!


De nada


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## cuylers5746

*GDL Crime*

Really;

We stayed downtown this last Sunday in GDL. I know it's quieter that all the "Bloqueadoras" last summer, but a young man was gunned down (permanent like) within a block from our Hotel - within 2 blocks of the main Plaza. I'd go with Queretaro over GDL for being safer.


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## MitaMs

They also have a great futbol team.


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## MitaMs

That happens more and more in GDL these days, unfortunately. Try the coast of Nayarit, safe and pretty.


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## mickisue1

GDL is a very big city. With very big cities go very big crimes. It's not the location, but the reasons for the crimes that matter.

"Drug deal gone bad", for example, translates in any language, any city and any country to quick and careless murder.


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## TundraGreen

mickisue1 said:


> GDL is a very big city. With very big cities go very big crimes. It's not the location, but the reasons for the crimes that matter.
> 
> "Drug deal gone bad", for example, translates in any language, any city and any country to quick and careless murder.


There is an element of luck or bad luck in being in the wrong place at the wrong time whereever you are.

There is no statistical significance to this but…
I lived in Qro for three months and had a friend who was sexually assaulted. I have been in Gdl for almost 6 years and have several friends who have lost cell phones.


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## MJB5293

i have live here for 4 years full time no problems no crime i have seen. when i ask my wife why she says cause this is where the family's of the drug king pins live. i do not know if it is true but that may account for all the large large homes in this city.


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## conklinwh

MJB5293 said:


> i have live here for 4 years full time no problems no crime i have seen. when i ask my wife why she says cause this is where the family's of the drug king pins live. i do not know if it is true but that may account for all the large large homes in this city.


I grew up in Bergen County NJ that was purported to have low crime because all the mafia bosses lived there. Never knew whether true or not but think low crime also because of higher standard of living and opportunities.

I expect that similar with Queretaro. I also think that a lot of the big houses not owned by the Torres-Landes family are 2nd homes for chilangos.


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## GARYJ65

Queretaro has very efficient security services: police, state police and military
I´ve been here for 15 years and it feels much secure than other places (San Luis Potosi, Monterrey, Tamaulipas, etc)


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## MJB5293

i guess that explains why over 150000 have moved to Queretaro over the last 3 years i see cars from all states in Mexico and construction of new homes is booming


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## Tiffanyguera

*work*

Hello, I am planning on moving to Queretaro with my fiance who is from there next year. I am worried about work there. I have been in banking for a long time. I am interested in teaching english, but have no degree other than an assoicates. I am fluent in both languages. How hard will it be for me to find a job?


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## GARYJ65

Tiffanyguera said:


> Hello, I am planning on moving to Queretaro with my fiance who is from there next year. I am worried about work there. I have been in banking for a long time. I am interested in teaching english, but have no degree other than an assoicates. I am fluent in both languages. How hard will it be for me to find a job?


You are asking a very difficult question here! You could of course be a freelance teacher, some language schools would hire you and then "prepare" you with a crash course on their systems, but if you are thinking about teaching in a university they would be asking for some sort of degree.


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> You are asking a very difficult question here! You could of course be a freelance teacher, some language schools would hire you and then "prepare" you with a crash course on their systems, but if you are thinking about teaching in a university they would be asking for some sort of degree.


Even universities don't pay English teachers very well since they are usually hired on a part-time basis. The best jobs are found at private schools for the children of the well-off. However, they would require a minimum of a Bachelor's degree with an appropriate major and some experience. Language schools might hire you, but the pay would not be great.


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## mrland

I lived in Oakland back in the '80 and graduated from Far West High School, a science/vocational school. FW was located about a mile from Broadway and 14th streets; hoodlums stood at that corner 24 hours a day! I now reside in Ciudad Juarez which lately appears calm at least compared to just 18 months ago. By the way, I've been in Juarez for about 10 years and have only seen a gun pulled once (thank God) ... by a motorcycle vialidad. I also do business close to Qro and in the San Miguel area. In my business experiences no one in Qro nor SM seemed to have had an urgency to get their hands on my pesos( or dollars) right away as I've expereinced in say, Juarez. Yes, they want to do business but they are very patient, not in a hurry for "un deposito," or "otro pago." Perhaps there's a correlation between their customs and the much lower amount and severity of crimes there and perhaps there's more truth to the adage "money is the root of all evil," than we'd like to believe.


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## hjaimeo

I am now living in Queretaro. I have lived in more than 30 places around Mexico and, so far, Queretaro has worked perfectly for me. I'm going to repost some information including some statistics. 

Something that surprised me when visiting Queretaro (before moving here) is that the Centro was filled with people at 11:00 pm! I seemed like it was 7 or 8 pm, there were even families with kids walking around (when I was a kid I wasn't allowed to be awake after 9:30 or 10 pm, I must admit that I was kind of jealous).

To have the "big picture" I think we should take a look at the numbers: in the last 14 years the city of Queretaro reported a murder rate of 3.2 homicides per 100K people, this is low when compared to the current 6.43 homicides per 100K people of Dallas, which is a city with a similar population and that has achieved 7 straight years of crime rate drops (I came across this data after my relatives living in the states expressed their concerns that I would die in one of the shootings that occurred everyday “throughout Mexico”).

Why is that? I don't really know, but my guess is that it is related to an educated population (most of my friends that moved here have, at least, a bachelor degree and moved once they were hired.. yes, that includes me) + the availability of good paying jobs + a reliable law enforcement. I have heard the argument of the druglords havind their families here but I don't give it much credit since I have heard that from half of the places that I have lived in; in addition, most of Queretaro's money comes from the companies that have stablished here (you can see a welld eveloped industrial economy scattered through all the city exits and this matches its GDP), unlike some other places where its whealth is hardly explained by the local industry.


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## starkweather

Qro sounds good overall. I am trying to compare with Guanajuato, Puebla and Oaxaca. Starkweather


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## alfaetrin

Having spent a fair bit of time in several different Mexican cities, I have to say that, for me, Queretaro seems to be perhaps the most pleasant I have stayed in. It is reasonably clean, prosperous and nice looking, with a pleasant climate. It is well located, only three hours from Mexico City, with good links to nearby places. It does not seem to suffer from some of the problems of other cities, such as poor or unreliable water, high altitude, air pollution, hurricanes, extreme heat or high crime rates.
Our friends have just moved to a house in a new estate above the city, and the living there seems to be great! Of course, no city is perfect, but if and when we move to Mexico semi-permanently, I think that Queretaro would be one of my first choices. (As my wife is from Mexico City, however, she may disagree, though!)


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## Isla Verde

alfaetrin said:


> Our friends have just moved to a house in a new estate above the city, and the living there seems to be great!


What do you mean by "estate"?


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## citlali

I bet you life is nice in jut about any city when living in "an estate" overlooking the city-


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## GARYJ65

alfaetrin said:


> Having spent a fair bit of time in several different Mexican cities, I have to say that, for me, Queretaro seems to be perhaps the most pleasant I have stayed in. It is reasonably clean, prosperous and nice looking, with a pleasant climate. It is well located, only three hours from Mexico City, with good links to nearby places. It does not seem to suffer from some of the problems of other cities, such as poor or unreliable water, high altitude, air pollution, hurricanes, extreme heat or high crime rates.
> Our friends have just moved to a house in a new estate above the city, and the living there seems to be great! Of course, no city is perfect, but if and when we move to Mexico semi-permanently, I think that Queretaro would be one of my first choices. (As my wife is from Mexico City, however, she may disagree, though!)


Queretaro is only about 2 hrs from Mexico city
Then again, depending of traffic conditions


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## Longford

In some countries, such as Ireland with which I have some familiarity ... "estate" usually means, simply, a subdivision of homes. Not knowing differently, I'm thinking in Scotland it means the same thing. In the United States, and probably in Canada, as well, the word conjures a different image.


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## alfaetrin

Hi folks, my post yesterday was my first visit to expatforum, so I was pleased to see that there were already some replies and comments. This looks like a good forum to be part of!
Isla Verde, by "estate" I just meant an area which contains a group of (newly-built) houses with an entrance booth and a safe and friendly atmosphere on the streets. There are small parks, people walking their dogs and chatting, children playing and vacant plots of land awaiting the construction of new properties. It is very pleasant, and seems especially nice to me, as the lovely weather is definitely a plus point for a Scotsman used to living with wild and windy weather eight months of the year!
GaryJ65, after driving for around an hour from near the centre of Mexico City, I was still sitting a slow-moving traffic jam in Ecatepec and, after escaping this bottleneck, I was content to drive at the speed limit of 110kph. I suppose with emptier roads and a faster speed I could have got there quicker, but I also enjoy taking in the scenery as I travel around Mexico, so I wasn't in a hurry that day (not that the traffic jam in Ecatepec was much fun!)


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## TundraGreen

alfaetrin said:


> …It is very pleasant, and seems especially nice to me, as the lovely weather is definitely a plus point for a Scotsman used to living with wild and windy weather eight months of the year!…


Lovely weather is relative. Queretaro can be cool in the winter. In general, houses are neither insulated, nor sealed, nor centrally heated. Winter temperatures are elevation dependent. Queretaro is at 1800 m (6000 ft).


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## MJB5293

well it is really 3700 feet about sea level and a good block home belt well will be comfortable and it is still nicer the then the cold of the north h the snow and rand and the heating bills oh my


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## TundraGreen

MJB5293 said:


> well it is really 3700 feet about sea level and a good block home belt well will be comfortable and it is still nicer the then the cold of the north h the snow and rand and the heating bills oh my


3700 feet? Are we talking about the municipality of Queretaro, or some other place in the state of Queretaro. The city is much higher than 3700 feet.


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> 3700 feet? Are we talking about the municipality of Queretaro, or some other place in the state of Queretaro. The city is much higher than 3700 feet.


According to one online source: Elevation -- Querétaro sits at 1,818m (*5,963 ft.*).

Read more: Fast Facts in Santiago de Queretaro at Frommer's


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## jahac vjetra

we all agree it's nice to disagree.


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## MJB5293

TundraGreen said:


> 3700 feet? Are we talking about the municipality of Queretaro, or some other place in the state of Queretaro. The city is much higher than 3700 feet.


the highest point in the state is 11000 feet the city is at 3700 feet


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## Isla Verde

MJB5293 said:


> the highest point in the state is 11000 feet the city is at 3700 feet


Really? All of the sources I've found on the internet disagree with you. Please post a reliable source of information.


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## Isla Verde

jahac vjetra said:


> we all agree it's nice to disagree.


It's fine to disagree about opinions, not about verifiable facts.


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## jahac vjetra

and who decides whose verifiable facts are accurate


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## MJB5293

Isla Verde said:


> According to one online source: Elevation -- Querétaro sits at 1,818m (*5,963 ft.*).
> 
> Read more: Fast Facts in Santiago de Queretaro at Frommer's


I stand corrected


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## Isla Verde

MJB5293 said:


> I stand corrected


Thanks!


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## jahac vjetra

Elevation 1,820 m (5,970 ft) ... the Santiago de Querétaro became the capital of the state of Querétaro in 1823


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## TundraGreen

jahac vjetra said:


> and who decides whose verifiable facts are accurate


Wikipedia is usually a good start, but in this case there are lots of sources.


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## JoanneR2

citlali said:


> I bet you life is nice in jut about any city when living in "an estate" overlooking the city-


Interesting what people understand from the same word. To me an estate, in this context, is an area with houses all built in a similar style and normally at around the same time, a 'housing estate'.


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## Isla Verde

JoanneR2 said:


> Interesting what people understand from the same word. To me an estate, in this context, is an area with houses all built in a similar style and normally at around the same time, a 'housing estate'.


In American English that would be a "housing development". In Mexico it is a "fraccionamiento". To me, an estate is a large area of land in the countryside owned by a wealthy family.


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## jahac vjetra

bravo isla-pedia.


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## trpt2345

From what I have heard Queretaro has little crime. We have spent some time there and have really enjoyed it. Again, crime is a relative thing. I lived in Chicago for more than thirty years. More or less 500 to 800 murders a year. Guadalajara which is more or less the same size had 50 murders last years, INCLUDING the so called drug war. Guns are illegal in Mexico and it makes a huge difference. I knew a cop in Chicago. When he mentioned the shibboleth that "if guns are criminalized only criminals would have guns" his reply was, hey, great, then I know if I see a gun it belongs to a criminal and I could just shoot 'em. A certain logic there.


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## GARYJ65

trpt2345 said:


> From what I have heard Queretaro has little crime. We have spent some time there and have really enjoyed it. Again, crime is a relative thing. I lived in Chicago for more than thirty years. More or less 500 to 800 murders a year. Guadalajara which is more or less the same size had 50 murders last years, INCLUDING the so called drug war. Guns are illegal in Mexico and it makes a huge difference. I knew a cop in Chicago. When he mentioned the shibboleth that "if guns are criminalized only criminals would have guns" his reply was, hey, great, then I know if I see a gun it belongs to a criminal and I could just shoot 'em. A certain logic there.


Some input here
Guns are not illegal in Mexico, there is a law for them (LEY DE ARMAS DE FUEGO Y EXPLOSIVOS) and they are legal according to the Constitution. Mexico has different gun laws than in different Countries but they are not banned.
When comparing to the US, Mexico has significantly less firearms.
Chicago's cop thinking, maybe he should go back to kindergarten if he did ment what he said, very childish opinion isn't it?
Or maybe he was trying to be funny, not a very good joke though

Most firearms in Mexico come from the US, the rest from Germany, Spain, Russia, etc. Mexico do not manufacture firearms
Importing them is also allowed by law


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## alfaetrin

Wow!
Joanne, I think that your definition of an estate is the closest one to what I would think of with this description. I guess that our American cousins would use different terminology, but I like Isla Verde’s “fraccionamiento” which, I guess, is how the average Mexican would label a group of houses in the same style. “Estate” seems to mean something very different in the United States! 
Isla Verde and MJB5293: for me, the important point about the altitude of a city is not how many meters above sea level an internet source records it to be but rather, the way I personally I felt earlier this month, at the age of 54 when, for example, I reached the top of steep staircases in Mexico City and in Queretaro.
In Mexico City I found myself drawing deep breaths at the top of the staircase, and requiring a moment or two to steady myself and continue my path. In Queretaro on the other hand, I found no such problem and, as I no longer play football (soccer?), I am sure that living in this lovely city would cause me no medical problems at all. Mexico City, however, has already given me cause for concern this year and, although it is my wife’s home city, I would be reluctant to settle there permanently, for this reason as well as other well documented reasons too.
I have to confess that after spending a couple of days in Queretaro in early August, I am sorely tempted to put this city at spot number one in my table of favourite cities in Mexico. Queretaro seems to tick a large number of important boxes for me, and I would be struggling to think of a better place to locate to in Mexico. 
By the way, as I am sure many of you know, there is already a healthy expat community in Queretaro, with Scots, Welsh, English and Americans getting together regularly for a beer and a chat. My liver is still recovering!
As autumn and winter approach here in Scotland, I think I would rather be sitting outside one of Queretaro's fine family restaurants than turning up the central heating here in Glasgow...


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## MJB5293

I guess the only time the average person has a estate is when he dies in the matter of the estate of -----------


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## alfaetrin

MJB5293 said:


> I guess the only time the average person has a estate is when he dies in the matter of the estate of -----------


Sir, I think that the word "estate" should be retired from this thread, as we seem to have very different understandings of the word on each side of the Atlantic...


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## MJB5293

agree


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## JoanneR2

alfaetrin said:


> Wow!
> Joanne, I think that your definition of an estate is the closest one to what I would think of with this description. I guess that our American cousins would use different terminology, but I like Isla Verde&#146;s &#147;fraccionamiento&#148; which, I guess, is how the average Mexican would label a group of houses in the same style. &#147;Estate&#148; seems to mean something very different in the United States!
> Isla Verde and MJB5293: for me, the important point about the altitude of a city is not how many meters above sea level an internet source records it to be but rather, the way I personally I felt earlier this month, at the age of 54 when, for example, I reached the top of steep staircases in Mexico City and in Queretaro.
> In Mexico City I found myself drawing deep breaths at the top of the staircase, and requiring a moment or two to steady myself and continue my path. In Queretaro on the other hand, I found no such problem and, as I no longer play football (soccer?), I am sure that living in this lovely city would cause me no medical problems at all. Mexico City, however, has already given me cause for concern this year and, although it is my wife&#146;s home city, I would be reluctant to settle there permanently, for this reason as well as other well documented reasons too.
> I have to confess that after spending a couple of days in Queretaro in early August, I am sorely tempted to put this city at spot number one in my table of favourite cities in Mexico. Queretaro seems to tick a large number of important boxes for me, and I would be struggling to think of a better place to locate to in Mexico.
> By the way, as I am sure many of you know, there is already a healthy expat community in Queretaro, with Scots, Welsh, English and Americans getting together regularly for a beer and a chat. My liver is still recovering!
> As autumn and winter approach here in Scotland, I think I would rather be sitting outside one of Queretaro's fine family restaurants than turning up the central heating here in Glasgow...


Just one thing to consider... When I arrived in Mexico City last January I too found climbing stairs and physical activity difficult. However, you soon get used to the altitude and I haven't had any problems for a long time. That said, Queretaro would be high on my list of places to live if I didn't work in the city. Best of luck


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## Longford

starkweather said:


> Qro sounds good overall. I am trying to compare with Guanajuato, Puebla and Oaxaca. Starkweather


The historic center of Queretaro has been and continues to be improved and it's nice and enjoyable - but most people who live in that large city don't live or spend all that much time in the center. There are drab and industrial areas which many people find unattractive/unappealing. Overall, I don't think the city is more attractive, liveable than many other places in Mexico. A principal reason so many international companies have manufacturing plants there and why so many people have moved there (Mexicans) is that it's relatively close to Mexico City.


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## TundraGreen

Longford said:


> The historic center of Queretaro has been and continues to be improved and it's nice and enjoyable - but most people who live in that large city don't live or spend all that much time in the center. There are drab and industrial areas which many people find unattractive/unappealing. Overall, I don't think the city is more attractive, liveable than many other places in Mexico. A principal reason so many international companies have manufacturing plants there and why so many people have moved there (Mexicans) is that it's relatively close to Mexico City.


The historic center of Querétaro would be much more appealing if they would close it to traffic, particularly on weekend evenings. It is jammed with traffic, which is not able to get anywhere anyway. The presence of the cars confines the pedestrians to the narrow sidewalks, and they have difficulty getting anywhere. In my humble opinion, both would be better off if they banned the cars. Unfortunately, Querétaro has not asked for my opinion.


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