# It's Game On!



## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Hang on to your hats boys and girls. Looks like China just might get it clock cleaned for it and we will have a front row seat right in our own back yard. Lets just hope those ****** don't make the mistake of trying to launch an attack against the Philippines.

Read The Article HERE
(source: FOX News)


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

Jet Lag said:


> Hang on to your hats boys and girls. Looks like China just might get it clock cleaned for it and we will have a front row seat right in our own back yard. Lets just hope those ****** don't make the mistake of trying to launch an attack against the Philippines.
> 
> Read The Article HERE
> (source: FOX News)


Not happy to hear this. My family is there alone.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Hmmm..., could be, now's the time to do something before all these Chinese bases are completed but I thought we were waiting for diplomatic measures to take effect or play themselves out. I don't see us making a show of force either, it'll hurt US/China relations, what will end up happening is another zone we'll have to avoid and warn others to avoid.


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

mcalleyboy said:


> Hmmm..., could be, now's the time to do something before all these Chinese bases are completed but I thought we were waiting for diplomatic measures to take effect or play themselves out. I don't see us making a show of force either, it'll hurt US/China relations, what will end up happening is another zone we'll have to avoid and warn others to avoid.


Same crap again


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

*Kerry's Visit To China-Results?*

China's relationship with the US is "stable" despite tensions in the South China Sea, President Xi Jinping told top American diplomat John Kerry Sunday, adding that the...

Read More Here
(source: Rappler)


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

Jet Lag said:


> China's relationship with the US is "stable" despite tensions in the South China Sea, President Xi Jinping told top American diplomat John Kerry Sunday, adding that the...
> 
> Read More Here
> (source: Rappler)


Stupidist thing i ever heard.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

I've been working on several paragraphs of how bad the political dynasties and activist are and I quit, erased it, and all I want to know is where's the HR office I want to apply for a job, open up Subic Bay.


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

mcalleyboy said:


> I've been working on several paragraphs of how bad the political dynasties and activist are and I quit, erased it, and all I want to know is where's the HR office I want to apply for a job, open up Subic Bay.


Lol m


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

lefties43332 said:


> Lol m


M,,skype to ya old boy


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Kinda like back in 1941 when the US politicians where crying that we should trust the words of the Japanese when they knew full well what we would likely would be in for.
They say that history can repeat itself. Now, I'm starting to see why.


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

Jet Lag said:


> Kinda like back in 1941 when the US politicians where crying that we should trust the words of the Japanese when they knew full well what we would likely would be in for.
> They say that history can repeat itself. Now, I'm starting to see why.


Yes


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Jet Lag said:


> Kinda like back in 1941 when the US politicians where crying that we should trust the words of the Japanese when they knew full well what we would likely would be in for.
> They say that history can repeat itself. Now, I'm starting to see why.


I had a long post fully agreeing with this, but then deleted it to not be so controversial. I find it very disturbing as to the direction we seem to be going.

Fred


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

fmartin_gila said:


> I had a long post fully agreeing with this, but then deleted it to not be so controversial. I find it very disturbing as to the direction we seem to be going.
> 
> Fred


Fred, As long as it seems to you to be within forum rules, go ahead and post it. I can always edit or even delete it if needed--but I think we would all like to know your thoughts.


Jet


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Quote of someone much smarter than I "Some things are better left unsaid". I think I had better let the sleeping dog be unless something further develops. I have been around this world for quite some time (76 years) and I have learned to be a bit cautious, if possible. My daughter worked for the State Dept for quite a few years and I found, and fully understand, that they do have a long reach.

Fred


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

fmartin_gila said:


> Quote of someone much smarter than I "Some things are better left unsaid". I think I had better let the sleeping dog be unless something further develops. I have been around this world for quite some time (76 years) and I have learned to be a bit cautious, if possible. My daughter worked for the State Dept for quite a few years and I found, and fully understand, that they do have a long reach.
> 
> Fred


Good thinking Fred. I thought your post would be in a different direction but yea, Uncle Sam has a surprisingly long reach.


Have a good one,

Jet..


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

*China Warns U.S. Surveillance Plane*

Looks like China is going to start becoming vocal.

Follow The Story
{source CNN News}


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Chinese Navy Base*



Jet Lag said:


> Looks like China is going to start becoming vocal.
> 
> Follow The Story
> {source CNN News}


Looks like the air above will be Chinese also, maybe our military aircraft should say I thought this was a resort island? That was the Chinese response a couple of years ago, they mentioned they were building resorts.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

mcalleyboy said:


> Looks like the air above will be Chinese also, maybe our military aircraft should say I thought this was a resort island? That was the Chinese response a couple of years ago, they mentioned they were building resorts.


Yea just land a few of those C-5's full of our boys ready for some R&R. Hope the Chinese plant some girls there or their soldiers and navy personal might have a problem . Is there a proctologist in the house :laugh:?


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## EuroBob (Feb 23, 2015)

Here is a post of mine from 4 March on another cite…

I am not an expert on the matter, but I presume China is mainly motivated by their oil-security policy and then the fish and shipping rights are just secondary bonuses. 
I believe it serves China’s interests to always try to deal with countries on a one-to-one basis and avoid dealing with blocks of countries or groups of countries, like ASEAN. This approach is China’s current policy.
Nobody wants a war over this issue and that works in China’s favour for the long game.
It might be clever for China to increase the number of citizens that they have in the area, as well as expanding islands. More Chinese citizens in the area aids China in saying that they must “protect their citizens”. I believe they used their citizens in this way in Tibet in 1950-51. 

What is to stop China?
The U.S. Navy is unmatched, but still how could they stop China, without starting a war?
The U.S. Navy will not bump a Chinese vessel and tell it to leave because it is in an ally’s waters.
By what legal precedent could the U.S. do anything to stop the expansion of territory which is not the U.S.’s territory?
The U.S. does participate in joint military exercises with other nations in the region. Perhaps a multi-national force, some members of which claim a certain island, could announce and practice an amphibious landing on the disputed island. It might be clever to include Taiwan in the multi-national force. THAT would bring the matter to a head.
But, as much as China would complain to the media, it will always insist on not having the matter taken up by a multi-nation organisation like ASEAN or UN, because they believe they need to always be the largest and most powerful force in a disagreement/conflict (ref. Sun Tzu’s “The Art of War”).

I presume that China will increase its control in the region over the years. At some point, China will then more strongly enforce their claim to the area by demanding that ships or planes seek their permission to enter the area. They have already done this in the past, but in the future they will send up jets to threaten airlines and use their navy to impound ships. 
When this starts happening on a wide enough level and to several different countries, the world will start to unite and before conflict erupts, China will strike a free passage agreement, which includes acknowledgements that the territory is China’s. 
Free passage through water ways and airways are the U.S.’s only real interest in the area, because the U.S. does not have territory in the area.
China’s offer of free passage while maintaining the rights to the territory and its resources (fish & hydrocarbons) will diffuse the tension (with the U.S.) and strengthen China’s claim to the area.
The world may protest. The world may go so far as sanctions, but the world does not see the benefit of a war with big powers.


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## UltraFJ40 (May 20, 2014)

Here's a recent event reported by Rueters: U.S. Navy spy plane in tense radio exchange with Chinese navy over South China Sea | Video | Reuters.com


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

As Chinese military order civilian airliners and a US Navy aircraft out of the Spratly Islands yesterday, The US government restated it's commitment to use international air-space and waters as per law and responded by stating:

“Nobody in their right mind is going to try to stop the US Navy from operating. That would not be a good step."

There is more to this quickly developing situation and can be read HERE.
{source: Philippine Daily Inquirer}

Side note:

So, as expats living here full time, what's the plan? Do we leave until any conflict is settled? If so, what is a good time to leave without cutting the time too short? How do we know when it's time to leave?
If we stay and the if the Philippines is directly attacked, what happens to our direct deposits of Social Security and other pensions? Will they be stopped or continue as normal? How to we get this and other needed information?

*Two good, current videos of the overfly can bee seen below:










*


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Another note what about those that have accounts in the "China Banking Corp" Something to think about in the long run.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

mcalleyboy said:


> Another note what about those that have accounts in the "China Banking Corp" Something to think about in the long run.


I thought about that too and did some looking around. Far as I can tell it's simply a name and is a Philippine owned bank..


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

*United States Responds*

The Los Angeles Times is reporting a direct response to the over-fly China issued to a US Military aircraft that was operating in the area.

Read The Story Here
{source: Los Angeles Times}


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

Jet Lag said:


> As Chinese military order civilian airliners and a US Navy aircraft out of the Spratly Islands yesterday, The US government restated it's commitment to use international air-space and waters as per law and responded by stating:
> 
> “Nobody in their right mind is going to try to stop the US Navy from operating. That would not be a good step."
> 
> ...


Maybe u.s. embassy if u trust their judgement.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Long overdue showing more detail of these man-made islands, they're huge. Wonder why we can't get down even closer and lets see some building's in high-resolution.


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

mcalleyboy said:


> Long overdue showing more detail of these man-made islands, they're huge. Wonder why we can't get down even closer and lets see some building's in high-resolution.


Ur right m,long overdue


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

mcalleyboy said:


> Long overdue showing more detail of these man-made islands, they're huge. Wonder why we can't get down even closer and lets see some building's in high-resolution.


I think those will come in the not too distant future. Don't forget, we have high rez satellite capability. These flights are more for show and to kida let the Chinese know that with no doubt we are here to stay; as well as low level targeting data for any battle plan. In the past, the US Navy has been very open on ship movement and locations around the world. That has stopped now as far as I can tell. So there is little doubt our guys aren't far away at any given time.


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

Jet Lag said:


> I think those will come in the not too distant future. Don't forget, we have high rez satellite capability. These flights are more for show and to kida let the Chinese know that with no doubt we are here to stay; as well as low level targeting data for any battle plan. In the past, the US Navy has been very open on ship movement and locations around the world. That has stopped now as far as I can tell. So there is little doubt our guys aren't far away at any given time.


It may get wet. Just like u wondering when time to leave,im wondering when time to come back. Or can i? My family is there.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

lefties43332 said:


> It may get wet. Just like u wondering when time to leave,im wondering when time to come back. Or can i? My family is there.


I know what you mean. My family is here too so no way will I leave. I guess though, many that are not married are the ones to answer that question. It's doubtful China would try a sneak attack on the PI as did the Japanese; but action here seems a possibility if only as a deversion by the Chinese if they feel they are on the loosing end during a confrontation.


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## UltraFJ40 (May 20, 2014)

Another article from Reuters (US Marine ops in Hawaii)
U.S. Marines eye China with Hawaii drills | Video | Reuters.com


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

Jet Lag said:


> I know what you mean. My family is here too so no way will I leave. I guess though, many that are not married are the ones to answer that question. It's doubtful China would try a sneak attack on the PI as did the Japanese; but action here seems a possibility if only as a deversion by the Chinese if they feel they are on the loosing end during a confrontation.


Its the side effects,the accidental mishaps that concern me most. Im very well confident that my family has competent americans there protecting them.


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

UltraFJ40 said:


> Another article from Reuters (US Marine ops in Hawaii)
> U.S. Marines eye China with Hawaii drills | Video | Reuters.com


3 ppl message me from pinas the last hr. 2 filipinos and one 27 yr career marine and needless to say....the filipinos know nothing of whats going on. And as usual, very LITTLE direct help or intercedence from other countries except united states.


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## UltraFJ40 (May 20, 2014)

lefties43332 said:


> 3 ppl message me from pinas the last hr. 2 filipinos and one 27 yr career marine and needless to say....the filipinos know nothing of whats going on. And as usual, very LITTLE direct help or intercedence from other countries except united states.


I wouldn't mind seeing a coalition (committee) of all the countries involved work together, at the minimum a round table of sorts to deter any further build up but that ain't happening. They're all scared, scared of not getting the loans, scared of not getting the "lagay" for their support of Chinese business interests in their countries, scared of having their milk "tit" taken away.

Personally I think that mindset also affects American politicians too. 

In a nutshell, nothing going to happen besides posturing. China will do as they please and we'll (all nations involved) will stand by kicking and screaming but won't "nut up" to make real changes in their policy.


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

UltraFJ40 said:


> I wouldn't mind seeing a coalition (committee) of all the countries involved work together, at the minimum a round table of sorts to deter any further build up but that ain't happening. They're all scared, scared of not getting the loans, scared of not getting the "lagay" for their support of Chinese business interests in their countries, scared of having their milk "tit" taken away.
> 
> Personally I think that mindset also affects American politicians too.
> 
> In a nutshell, nothing going to happen besides posturing. China will do as they please and we'll (all nations involved) will stand by kicking and screaming but won't "nut up" to make real changes in their policy.


Im with u on a coalition,its what needs to be done. Problem is where u say only thing being done is posturing.....it only takes 1 idiot and 1 mistake to start it. Time and time again throughout history we have seen it.


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## UltraFJ40 (May 20, 2014)

lefties43332 said:


> Im with u on a coalition,its what needs to be done. Problem is where u say only thing being done is posturing.....it only takes 1 idiot and 1 mistake to start it. Time and time again throughout history we have seen it.


I agree, I think the only way to impact China's activities is to collectively start increasing the imports duties on goods they provide us with. A global coalition that would hurt them even more should they choose to continue pillaging and ransacking the area. They are already scrambling when it comes to their budget shortfalls. A rise on import duties and higher taxes on non-national businesses like manufacturing would decrease the goods being purchased and create an even larger disparity in their budget. Sure it is going to hurt every economy involved but right now we're giving away the farm in my opinion.

To act or react militarily would be foolish on all accounts.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

*US Affirms ‘Ironclad’ Promise To Defend Philippines*

US vows to defend the Philippines if needed. A comforting thought for all of us expats that live here. Just hope it doesn't become necessary to do so.


Read The Story Here
(source: GMA News)


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## pakawala (Sep 10, 2014)

ASEANs Role???? 

The Philippines on Sunday challenged fellow Asean members to “finally stand up” to Beijing and demand an end to reclamation works.

Article:
Chinese island-building in South China Sea 'may undermine peace', says Asean | World news | The Guardian


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## UltraFJ40 (May 20, 2014)

The Aussies have joined in too; Officials signal Australia will join US provocation in South China Sea - World Socialist Web Site


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## EuroBob (Feb 23, 2015)

The U.S. is after maintaining free movement in the seas and air in the region and does not really have a stake in the disputed land or resources. 
However, I am not sure the abrupt nature of "straight talk" works constructively with China.

Here is a link to a BBC article which mentions that the U.S. Secretary of Defence will discuss the matter with China. US-China tensions rise over Beijing's 'Great Wall of Sand' - BBC News


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## EuroBob (Feb 23, 2015)

UltraFJ40 said:


> The Aussies have joined in too; Officials signal Australia will join US provocation in South China Sea - World Socialist Web Site


That article was a strange source, but except for its typical references to the Imperialists and workers it was interesting and informative. Thanks.


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## UltraFJ40 (May 20, 2014)

Chinese weapons already established? US surveillance shows Chinese artillery on artificial islands, officials say | Fox News


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

UltraFJ40 said:


> Chinese weapons already established? US surveillance shows Chinese artillery on artificial islands, officials say | Fox News


This is yahoo news....i think somebody is stirring the pot daily......sounds like the phils


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## UltraFJ40 (May 20, 2014)

lefties43332 said:


> This is yahoo news....i think somebody is stirring the pot daily......sounds like the phils


I wouldn't doubt it, Vietnam has also been pretty vocal in their opposition to the Chinese though.

From our friends, I'm getting a feeling of anti-Chinese sentiment from the Vietnamese. It's kind of like the little brother getting tired of being slapped around (in my opinion).


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

lefties43332 said:


> This is yahoo news....i think somebody is stirring the pot daily......sounds like the phils


A bit more credible than Yahoo News; the story was first posted on Military Times. This is a repost of several days ago but still headlines as of today..


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

*USS Topeka Arrives in Guam Homeport*

The Los Angeles-class submarine USS Topeka (SSN 754) arrived at its new homeport of U.S. Naval Base Guam May 29.
Commodore Capt. Jeffrey Grimes said. “She brings a new level of sophistication and fire power that we need in the Pacific.”

Read The Story Here
{source: US Pacific Command}


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

lefties43332 said:


> Its the side effects,the accidental mishaps that concern me most. Im very well confident that my family has competent americans there protecting them.


At first u had me concerned with this topic,now im not. I think its just chest beating.


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## pakawala (Sep 10, 2014)

ASEAN ASEAN
To promote regional peace and stability through abiding respect for justice and the rule of law in the relationship among countries of the region and adherence to the principles of the United Nations Charter;










One would think that ASEAN would be more vocal. China's reclamation impacts virtually every ASEAN member, whether it be that several ASEAN Nations also claim The Spratly's or that China is now claiming most of their their 200 NM exclusive economic zone


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

pakawala said:


> ASEAN ASEAN
> To promote regional peace and stability through abiding respect for justice and the rule of law in the relationship among countries of the region and adherence to the principles of the United Nations Charter;
> 
> One would think that ASEAN would be more vocal. China's reclamation impacts virtually every ASEAN member, whether it be that several ASEAN Nations also claim The Spratly's or that China is now claiming most of their their 200 NM exclusive economic zone


Yup,you would think.


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Kind of like a tinder box that each is afraid to set off. China wishes to deal with each by themselves as it is easier to "bully" them. Eurobob had some very good points in his post on 21 May that I agree with. I kind of get the impression that the others, knowing that the US & ROP have a good agreement (along with Japan), are more or less waiting on the sidelines to see if Japan and ROP will initiate, depending on how far they think they can go with US backing. For the moment, it is a lot of blowing and blustering, but there are things going on behind the scene that may determine what happens (note the recent addition in Quam). 

As I have said in the past, we can only deal with the fallout at our level if & when the SHTF. Just try to be prepared and listen to what is going on.

Fred


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## jon1 (Mar 18, 2012)

And now Japan has voiced the same position and stance

Japan says China, others must behave responsibly on S. China Sea- Nikkei Asian Review


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

jon1 said:


> And now Japan has voiced the same position and stance
> 
> Japan says China, others must behave responsibly on S. China Sea- Nikkei Asian Review


That's just about the best article I've read on this issue so far. Japan has some good ideas there and with some planning and development of mutual military coordination could have a profound effect for the good on peace in the region.
Thanks for posting.


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## jon1 (Mar 18, 2012)

Some more insight into the future plans... 

Philippines, US to set up South China Sea defense line | Inquirer Global Nation


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## EuroBob (Feb 23, 2015)

jon1 said:


> Some more insight into the future plans...
> 
> Philippines, US to set up South China Sea defense line | Inquirer Global Nation


In this link's article Jose Custodio makes the claim as follows, but keep in mind that Jose makes his living in a way that his demand/business would increase if his words were believed:

“The Americans know they are the ultimate goal here. Once the Chinese consolidate in the Spratlys and they punch through, then they’ll go to the second island chain: Guam,” Jose Custodio, a consultant of the Philippine military and a former adviser to a US defense company working for the US Pacific Command, told The Straits Times."

I strongly doubt China will try to claim Guam and have not yet read people saying things like Jose Custodio.


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## lefties43332 (Oct 21, 2012)

EuroBob said:


> In this link's article Jose Custodio makes the claim as follows, but keep in mind that Jose makes his living in a way that his demand/business would increase if his words were believed:
> 
> &#147;The Americans know they are the ultimate goal here. Once the Chinese consolidate in the Spratlys and they punch through, then they&#146;ll go to the second island chain: Guam,&#148; Jose Custodio, a consultant of the Philippine military and a former adviser to a US defense company working for the US Pacific Command, told The Straits Times."
> 
> I strongly doubt China will try to claim Guam and have not yet read people saying things like Jose Custodio.


Yup,very far fetched...


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Seems to be heating up a bit more. India has dispatched 4 Subs to the area and Russia is going to do war games here too. We do need to pay attention to what is going on.

Fred


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## UltraFJ40 (May 20, 2014)

Just caught this on a separate site, The story is from CNN though.

Philippines fortifies sea claim with 300-year-old map - CNN Philippines


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## simonsays (Feb 11, 2009)

UltraFJ40 said:


> Just caught this on a separate site, The story is from CNN though.
> 
> Philippines fortifies sea claim with 300-year-old map - CNN Philippines


if my post somewhere in the past wasn't redacted, and you have extensive work experience with Chinese, the Chinese wont' give a hoot about 300 year old map or not

They want it, they take it.

Read up the Indo-Chinese war- of 1962

Some reading on the Chinese Psyche.

Events leading to the Sino-Indian War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## galactic (Dec 2, 2014)

IMO, wanting and taking is different from saying the disputed islands has been their territory since time immemorial.

It gives the Philippine claim a moral high ground as far as proof is concerned not unless they produce much older maps stating otherwise.


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## UltraFJ40 (May 20, 2014)

galactic said:


> IMO, wanting and taking is different from saying the disputed islands has been their territory since time immemorial.
> 
> It gives the Philippine claim a moral high ground as far as proof is concerned not unless they produce much older maps stating otherwise.


Give them a week, I'm sure they'll be able to produce "authentic" 2,000 year old maps showing it rightly belongs to them.


Just like the Cherry automobile and the expired 1st gen Runners and others that the Great Wall Motor Vehicle's has stolen due to expired(?) patents.


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## simonsays (Feb 11, 2009)

UltraFJ40 said:


> Give them a week, I'm sure they'll be able to produce "authentic" 2,000 year old maps showing it rightly belongs to them.
> 
> 
> Just like the Cherry automobile and the expired 1st gen Runners and others that the Great Wall Motor Vehicle's has stolen due to expired(?) patents.


well, when China reproduced the MD 80s, from the left over jigs from the assembly lines of MD, they proudly claimed that the product is the outcome of innovative and excellent Chinese Engineering and expertise - no points for the plane looking like an MD 80, and the Engines form West.

But, there are 2 billion souls who declares war on anybody who dare to belittle them, and insist it is 100% China Made, and all MD (and now Boeing) do was, to see if they can collaborate with the clone maker and make some money in the process.. And Boeing knows they can't make China stop the cloning. (Asian Regional Jet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_ARJ21)

When China Copied the BMW and made it BYD, and likewise, when they cloned the Vitara, Polo .. what could the original makers do ? they tucked their tails in asked China to 'partner' .. 

Back to the islands, it's not about Moral High Ground. it's about the Elephant in the room, an elephant which does what it likes, and gets away with it. 

Agreed, Philippines has the Moral high ground, and so does Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei .... but .. if China doesn't give a hoot about Philippines, so do they give not a hoot about the rest.

If they did have some worry, how would they go all out on the deployment of so many dredgers and nearly completing more than a few islands ? And back long ago, like more than 20 years ago, they have planted enough concrete in some other islands, with a small garrison, nothing less than a war will evict them.


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## UltraFJ40 (May 20, 2014)

Very well stated Simon.


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