# Marriage And Property Woes



## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Shadowman said:


> haha, yeah but if the best a foreigner can do in the Philippines is live with someone elses wife, that's already pretty sad.


 It can depend of they can't divorse in Phils, and many Filipinos can't afford geting annulment. 

An additional reason to look up in such situations - Many haven't even made a legal separation, which mean the Filipino husband will get right to half the assets at the separation, so extra unwice  to put things in such Filipinas name* As many foreigners do, which is bad even when the Filipina isn't married to someone else. 

*An ok exception can be concerning land if married with the foreigner and put the foreigner as "co-owner" or what iit's called. Then the Filipina has the control normaly but the foreigner has to sign too to make a selling legal, so the foreigner has "veto" so he can stop a selling. I don't know if the foreigner has veto against using it as collateral too.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Lunkan said:


> *An ok exception can be concerning land if married with the foreigner and put the foreigner as "co-owner" or what iit's called. Then the Filipina has the control normaly but the foreigner has to sign too to make a selling legal, so the foreigner has "veto" so he can stop a selling. I don't know if the foreigner has veto against using it as collateral too.


In that case the foreigner has no choice, his name can't be on the title anyway. The only reason he has any claim to the land there is _because _they're married, making it communal property.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Shadowman said:


> In that case the foreigner has no choice, his name can't be on the title anyway. The only reason he has any claim to the land there is _because _they're married, making it communal property.


 The foreigner would be in a SUB-position* to the Filipino owner, BUT he CAN be noted at the title. 
A friend of mine has it like that. The Filipina wife left both him and their kids and is very greedy, but I guess it's because of my friend is at the title too and has to sign it too if selling, the greedy wife hasn't tried to sell it  I haven't read law about that, but both my friend said it and got mensioned by lawyer/law student in a law forum.

*I have forgot the word for that legal position.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Lunkan said:


> my friend is at the title too


You may be thinking of on the sales contract, or on the house title, but his name isn't on the property title. The land is entirely hers, but she can't just sell it is because under the marriage it's also part of their communal property. Same reason if she dies, he has a right to sell it and collect the proceeds.


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## ragbone13 (Jun 17, 2015)

With all due respect to the always helpful members of this forum, their free advice is worth exactly what you are paying, i.e. nothing. IMO, the only advice worth following is the member that advised you seek professional legal representation. There are too many rabbit holes to fall into, otherwise. Good luck.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Shadowman said:


> You may be thinking of on the sales contract, or on the house title, but his name isn't on the property title. The land is entirely hers, but she can't just sell it is because under the marriage it's also part of their communal property. Same reason if she dies, he has a right to sell it and collect the proceeds.


 "House title" ??? Never heared of  Land with houseor without house can have titlle. I suppouse a house at leased land CAN'T have title.,
Anyway - that friend from elementary school say he is noted at the land title too as "co-owner" (or what the legal term is.)


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

ragbone13 said:


> the only advice worth following is the member that advised you seek professional legal representation. There are too many rabbit holes to fall into, otherwise.


 It's common Phil lawyers SCREW UP 
For instance:
/One lawyer got paid to make solutiuon where the Filipina own the tiny land and the foreigner lease it and own the house. When the relation got problem by the foreigner was alcoholic and hit the Filipina so the planned marriage got canceled,, I told the Filipina to read the documents. Then she noticed all were in HER name. She wanted to let the foreigner get it anyway, but the foreigner wanted to sell it for fsame as he had paidm so they din't get any buyer. It became big problem by all were in her name all bills went to her, and she couldn't pay them, and tre foreigner didn't want to pay them...

/Several Phil lawyers make "solution" with Dummies to get around "The Anti-ummy law" !!! Of course ILLEGAL and no chance it can manage a proper check...
Better ask me how it can be solved rather good lLEGAL  
(But it's some complicated and CAN'T function just to solve living space for the foreigner, it has to be a business NEEDING land to something more than lease to the foreigner home.)


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

ragbone13 said:


> With all due respect to the always helpful members of this forum, their free advice is worth exactly what you are paying, i.e. nothing. IMO, the only advice worth following is the member that advised you seek professional legal representation. There are too many rabbit holes to fall into, otherwise. Good luck.


And the rabbit holes are many and easy to break an ankle or leg. The more astute have been there and offer advice from their personal experiences,,,,,, paid the attorney many times to achieve a legal outcome misinterpreted oft times by many/most.
Security in a property that you can't own but can lease legally needs an encumbered title, banks and lenders do this every day, the likes of me had to fight for those rights but achieved. My name is on the title as the lessee of the land and the buildings and improvements are titled. As a married couple or proven de facto it ain't going to happen.

At the end of the day I'm sure the courts will look more favourably on my Pinoy partners claims than mine but in the mean/most times he knows little difference, protecting ones derriere and then some. 
As always said in all expat forums "only put in, invest what you are prepared to lose".

I am comfortable with our situation and my free advice is from experience and the 3+ years to achieve it and only 9 years learning here.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Lunkan said:


> It's common Phil lawyers SCREW UP
> ...
> Better ask me how it can be solved rather good lLEGAL


 I mean IF wanting some more control than owning the house at leased land.

An other example is the assigned lawyer SCAMMED the buyer at half of the land...
The lawyer made the documents correct for a beach property, EXCEPT he made it only at half of the land to the buyer and took the other half for HIMSELF for FREE somehow. (I don't know how the lawyer did it to get half in his name with documents, I just know the buyer got only around half of the land the seller sold and the buyer paid for whole.)


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Stupid is as stupid does. Hypotheticals rarely, rarely ever count in a court room, more fool the gullible and as ragbone 13 suggests? Some live and do/succeed while others hypothesise.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Lunkan said:


> that friend from elementary school say he is noted at the land title too as "co-owner" (or what the legal term is.)


Unless he figured out a legal loophole that no other foreigner in the PH else has ever heard of (in which case please share it) he's mistaken. Foreigners can only have their name on the sales contract for the property, or as owner of the _house only_, (but not lease, you can't lease from your wife).


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## Tukaram (Dec 18, 2014)

A husband and wife are one legal, and financial, entity. What one owns, they own together. No contract will change that. Listing as a 'co owner' does nothing. Also, you cannot lease from your wife - it would be the same as leasing to herself. 

You may get something on paper... but it will not hold up in court. 

We are one legal entity... but the Filipina will always have preferential treatment in court. Do not buy anything you are not willing to walk away from.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Pre-nups are legal here. The default is that everything is joint. However you can opt for a different regime of property.

Like pre-nups everywhere, you need to sign them in advance of marriage and in anticipation of marriage.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Tukaram said:


> A husband and wife are one legal, and financial, entity. What one owns, they own together.


Not true, there are four exceptions, take special note of the last one:

*Art. 148. The following shall be the exclusive property of each spouse:
(1) That which is brought to the marriage as his or her own;
(2) That which each acquires, during the marriage, by lucrative title;
(3) That which is acquired by right of redemption or by exchange with other property belonging to only one of the spouses;
(4) That which is purchased with exclusive money of the wife or of the husband.*


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Shadowman said:


> Unless he figured out a legal loophole that no other foreigner in the PH else has ever heard of (in which case please share it) he's mistaken. Foreigners can only have their name on the sales contract for the property, or as owner of the _house only_,


 I have found "loopholes" concerning OTHER things  (As e g foreigners CAN own part of land, and big tax advantage if fullfilling the demands.)
BUT concerning this I HAVEN'T found any. (I haven't searched because I found how foreigners can own part of land 

I have just noted:
/what my friend from Elementary school say he has is name noted at the title too as what I call "co-owner" and his greedy wife haven't manage to sell it by he say he has to sign, which he hasn't, too to make a legal sale.
/And a foireigner, who seem to have studied Phil laws by what he tell about several things. He say: "Regarding Filipino wife and foreign spouse's names* on TCT title* as owner to the lot - The safest way to have any rights as a foreigner is to make sure the *new TCT* or the bill of sale read “Sue Doe, married to John Doe a foreigner”. "


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Shadowman said:


> Not true, there are four exceptions, take special note of the last one:
> 
> *Art. 148. The following shall be the exclusive property of each spouse:
> (1) That which is brought to the marriage as his or her own;
> ...


Don't forget it only applies to citizens as a foreign spouse cannot own land, so can't by land except for his spouse.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

bigpearl said:


> Stupid is as stupid does. Hypotheticals rarely, rarely ever count in a court room, more fool the gullible and *as ragbone* 13 suggests? Some live and do/succeed while others hypothesise.


Nagbone said 


ragbone13 said:


> the only advice worth following is the member that advised you seek professional legal representation. There are too many rabbit holes to fall into, otherwise.


so you, bigpearl, talk against yourself because why pay a lawyer if lose in court anyway...? 

I think it's better to make legal documents for protecttion anyway, because then would the court need to BREAK the law to let the Filipino winn...



bigpearl said:


> *Stupid is as stupid does.* Hypotheticals rarely, rarely ever count in a court room, more fool the gullible and as ragbone 13 suggests? *Some live and do/succeed while others hypothesise. *


I suppouse that was to me, because my post was just above and you didn't adress it to someone else. So you continue your stupid BS... (You have allready proven in other topics by your BS you are good at making stupid conclusions...  
Earlier you claimed my new business is hypothetical, although business deal is negotiated and signed and *business is started*. Actualy *today* my business partner has been at two misstreated businesses for sale cheap and started inventoring, and we think of buying one or both of them and solve the misstreating to earn rather much.

And by your last sentence you show your idiotic conclusion capacity again...
Beside I have done to much elite sports, geting a serious knee injury, I have succeeded in "everytthing" in very different types (because I like challenges many others find "impossiblle"). 
/Got a planning boss employment in one of the bigest PR production corporations allready *as 19 yo*. 
/At elite level in several different sports as *active* (e g soccer and tracking field). Including some as playing coach.
/Succeeded with *own business* allready as 24 yo with "impossible" low start capital, managed to grow it to 115 employees anyway...
/One of my challenge goals was geting a book approved by publisher. Done.
/Developed two sport clubs from bottom to Swedish elite as *leader.*
/All "experts" said it was impossible to start a "flat" organisation in Russia, but I managed to do it anyway...  for a client. (A software production.)
/Trading in stocks and such. During 1980-ties I were very short of time but earned around 33 % per year anyway. During this millenium I have more time by I have sold my 70-115 empoyees business. My best year I earned 174 %, by finding bargains and when "everything" else *fell *autumn 2008 my shares went up 50 % in 5 months.
/Have wonn 100 % of *court cases *for clients when the opponents have been private companies. Wonn around half when the opponents have been officials. Rather recently Swedish "BIR" scared my client by saying he wasn¨t allowed to make as he had done concerning taxes, but then I made so he got around a half million net less tax than he had paid  and he has got that back.
/B*usiness consultant*. Normaly I just charge a percentage of the *improved results *clients have got by my changes and it has allways become good pay per hour to me. An exception from percent charging was when I got a longer assignment to solve a crisis made by big mess done by the earlier region boss for a national distribution corporation. Allready after 6 months the headquarter said it had become their best region and they started using it for tests for hesitating presumtive national customers! Then I found and tought a new region boss before I left. 

And now I plan to succeed with new business in Phils...


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Gary D said:


> a foreign spouse cannot own land, so can't by land except for his spouse.


Half true, a foreigner can't purchase land in his name, but he can jointly own land purchased after the marriage in his wife's name, that's the whole point of the community property law. 

But land is the only exception; anything else a spouse purchases with their own money (condo etc) is their own.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Shadowman said:


> Half true, a foreigner can't purchase land in his name, but he can jointly own land purchased after the marriage in his wife's name, that's the whole point of the community property law.
> 
> But land is the only exception; anything else a spouse purchases with their own money (condo etc) is their own.


Not quite that simple, it's all about control. Foreigners are not allowed any control over land, even part ownership implies a degree of control which is prevented in law.


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Gary D said:


> Foreigners are not allowed any control over land, even part ownership implies a degree of control which is prevented in law.


Part ownership _is _the law, and has been recognized as such in court proceedings. 

See Article 116: . All property acquired during the marriage,* whether the acquisition appears to have been made, contracted or registered in the name of one or both spouses*, is presumed to be conjugal


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Shadowman said:


> Part ownership _is _the law, and has been recognized as such in court proceedings.
> 
> See Article 116: . All property acquired during the marriage,* whether the acquisition appears to have been made, contracted or registered in the name of one or both spouses*, is presumed to be conjugal


Ordinarily, all properties acquired during marriage are conjugal properties under Philippine law. ... Instead, the real properties acquired during the marriage will belong to the Filipino spouse alone, and the foreign spouse cannot get any share from it.








ATTY ROGELIO KARAGDAG JR | DO FOREIGNERS HAVE RIGHTS OVER LANDS REGISTERED TO THEIR FILIPINO SPOUSES?


ASIAN JOURNAL | November 7 2014 Edition




asianjournalusa.com


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## Shadowman (Apr 20, 2020)

Gary D said:


> Ordinarily, all properties acquired during marriage are conjugal properties under Philippine law. ... Instead, the real properties acquired during the marriage will belong to the Filipino spouse alone, and the foreign spouse cannot get any share from it.


That case you quoted was from 2006, there were many like that but more recently there's a shift in the court where it recognized the inherent unfairness allowing the wife to take advantage of such a situation. So it was decided that the property was to be sold and the proceeds split. I can't find the case through searching, it may have been linked in a forum.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Gary D said:


> Not quite that simple, it's all about control. Foreigners are not allowed any control over land, even part ownership implies a degree of control which is prevented in law.


 Well. That's not correct. 
Foreigners* can't* have* majority* control over land, and are *not* allowed to have Dummy Filipinos giving control to foreigner - as secveral incompetent/scammer lawyers do,
*but* it *can* be foreigners at two of five board positions as well as 40 % of the shares can be foreigner owned in a corporation, which own land for business use. 
(So it's enough one of the tree Filipinos in the board is clever enough to vote as the foreiners vote  but without being Dummy.)


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Gary D said:


> Don't forget it only applies to citizens as a foreign spouse cannot own land, so can't by land except for his spouse.


Property does not only refer to real property, ie land, but can be other assets, chattel or financial property ie movable items, cars, businesses, investments, bank accounts etc.


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