# Where do I stand in this position?



## Deb Douglas (Mar 25, 2015)

Hi

I've only just joined, so hello to you all and thanks in advance for any advice on my question.

I work in a restaurant in Malága and have been on a 10 hour per week, indefinido contract, for the past seven years. 

Recently, the road outside the restaurant has been closed off and dug up, resulting in a considerable drop in trade. As the work is likely to take some months, my employers have told me that they can no longer afford to pay me my wages, or make my monthly social security payment.

I appreciate their situation - it is difficult, I know - but do I have any rights in this situation? Surely my contract must count for something, even if it is only for 10 hours per week. Incidentally, in the seven years I have worked for my employers, they have never paid holiday pay. Again, I don't know if I am not eligible for this as I only have a 10 hour per week contract.

The thing is, if they really don't have the money to pay me, what can I do about it, if anything?

Any advice will be gratefully received.

Thanks so much,

Deb


----------



## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

There is a form of unemployment benefit in Spain but it is subject to certain conditions, such as hours worked etc, and I am not certain about those but for sure someone on here will know. If you qualify I think it is paid for 6 months and amounts to around €600 a month. You could discuss this with your employer as they should know the rules.


----------



## Deb Douglas (Mar 25, 2015)

Thank you thrax. 

I know very little about unemployment benefit in Spain, except that it's incredibly hard to claim! I will have to investigate though.

Actually, my employers have suggested that I go down that route, as in their words, the fact that they don't have the money to pay me makes my contract with them "null and void." 

Whilst I don't believe that, as I said before, if they don't have the money to pay me my wages or my social, I don't suppose there's a lot I can do, which is really why I posted on here in the first place, ie; to try and find out the position.

Anyway, thrax - thanks again. The advice is much appreciated.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Deb Douglas said:


> Thank you thrax.
> 
> I know very little about unemployment benefit in Spain, except that it's incredibly hard to claim! I will have to investigate though.
> 
> ...


If you were a member of a Union, UGT or CCOO, you could get free advice and support.
My advice would be to join asap....well worth the membership fees.

Just a thought.....I don't see how the fact that they say they can't afford to pay you makes your contract null and void.


----------



## Deb Douglas (Mar 25, 2015)

mrypg9 said:


> If you were a member of a Union, UGT or CCOO, you could get free advice and support.
> My advice would be to join asap....well worth the membership fees.
> 
> Just a thought.....I don't see how the fact that they say they can't afford to pay you makes your contract null and void.


Thanks for the advice mrypg9 - I'm not a member of any union, so will look into that.

No, I don't see how that would make my contract null and void either - I think they're just saying that because they haven't got the money to pay me (or are saying they haven't got the money), and are hoping that by telling me that my contract is null and void, I'll just accept that and leave of my own accord, which would make things a lot easier for them.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Deb Douglas said:


> Thanks for the advice mrypg9 - I'm not a member of any union, so will look into that.
> 
> No, I don't see how that would make my contract null and void either - I think they're just saying that because they haven't got the money to pay me (or are saying they haven't got the money), and are hoping that by telling me that my contract is null and void, I'll just accept that and leave of my own accord, which would make things a lot easier for them.


As I'm sure you know, the last thing you should do is leave this company voluntarily. If they want to get rid of you they must either sack you, for which they need proof of gross industrial misconduct of some kind or they must make you redundant, in which case they may have to give some form of severance pay.
But I'm not sure what rights you have within the terms of your contract.
You really do need expert advice.


----------



## Deb Douglas (Mar 25, 2015)

Thanks again mrypg9 - and no, I certainly wouldn't leave voluntarily! I'm pretty sure that's what they're hoping I'll do though. 

As you suggest, I'm definitely going to have to get some expert advice - whilst everything was ticking along nicely, I never gave a thought to what I'd do in a situation like this, so I've never had reason to consider it. Think I'd better start making enquiries now!

Thanks again.


----------



## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

Hi! 

I am sure you can get your unemployment benefit, it would be 2 years as you have worked for 7 years. It will be pro-rata according to your salary. 

You need to go to the Unemployment Office within 15 days of the date you stopped working. Otherwise you will lose your entitlement. 

You need to ask your employer for the 'Certificado de Empresa' and the TC2, where it says how long you have worked and how much money you were paid.

Together with your DNI or NIE, last payslip, and some other papers (all photocopied twice apparently). 

As you are now officially unemployed you need to register with the Unemployment Centre as 'unemployed' and you have to do that first before you ask for the 'dole', but both can be done on the same day. 

I don't know how good your spanish is, but if not good enough for this, take someone with you and you can explain to them the thingy about the 'void and null' that sounds a bit odd to me. 

Good luck!


----------



## Deb Douglas (Mar 25, 2015)

Hi Lolito,

This is fantastic information! Thank you 

I'm not actually unemployed yet, as I haven't left - and I have no intention of leaving either. 

Even though they've said they can't pay me, I'm not leaving, as if I do so voluntarily, I guess I will lose all my rights and any entitlements which may apply under the terms of my contract. I'm sure they would prefer me to leave of my own accord, but I'm not going to.

Thanks again for the advice - it is much appreciated


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Deb Douglas said:


> Hi
> 
> I've only just joined, so hello to you all and thanks in advance for any advice on my question.
> 
> ...


Go to your local SEPE office (Servicio Público de Empleo Estatal - old INEM) and ask there
Servicio PÃºblico de Empleo Estatal - Direcciones y telÃ©fonos


----------



## Deb Douglas (Mar 25, 2015)

Thank you Pesky Wesky - didn't know such a place existed, but will check it out.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Deb Douglas said:


> Thank you Pesky Wesky - didn't know such a place existed, but will check it out.


But...still join a trades union! Then you will have not only advice but someone to back you up, in court if necessary.
I worked in education for most of my life, joined my Union on Day One and although retired I'm still a member. In fact, I'm off to our Annual Conference in Wales next week.
Depending on your relationship with your employers, you could have a 'full and frank' discussion with them to make them aware that you have no intention of leaving voluntarily.


----------



## Deb Douglas (Mar 25, 2015)

Thanks mrypg9 - I'm looking into everything. I have the details of the UGT and am going to ask a friend if she'd be so kind as to call them tomorrow on my behalf. My Spanish is fine as far as day to day conversations go, but I'm not confident it would stretch to this - too much technical vocabulary and unfamiliar words on the phone have a tendency to leave me somewhat flummoxed!

Anyway, I have a feeling that a sit down with my employers is not too far away - they are doing all they can to avoid discussing the subject with me, but I really don't see how they can for much longer. When it happens though, I will tell them that I have no intention of leaving and that I am taking legal advice. 

I would much prefer not to have the conversation at all, but I don't see how it can be avoided. 

Thanks again for all the advice.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Deb Douglas said:


> Thanks mrypg9 - I'm looking into everything. I have the details of the UGT and am going to ask a friend if she'd be so kind as to call them tomorrow on my behalf. My Spanish is fine as far as day to day conversations go, but I'm not confident it would stretch to this - too much technical vocabulary and unfamiliar words on the phone have a tendency to leave me somewhat flummoxed!
> 
> Anyway, I have a feeling that a sit down with my employers is not too far away - they are doing all they can to avoid discussing the subject with me, but I really don't see how they can for much longer. When it happens though, I will tell them that I have no intention of leaving and that I am taking legal advice.
> 
> ...


It's a pleasure. I used to deal with problems like yours as a 'shop steward' then later after I retired I did unpaid work as an advisor on Equality legislation. But my partner ran a medium-sized company so I saw both sides, as it were.


If your employers really can't afford to keep you on it's unlikely they'll be able to pay any redundancy due. But you may be able to sort out something between you on an amicable basis.


----------



## Deb Douglas (Mar 25, 2015)

The thing is, mrypg9 - and this is what I find so galling - I know that their personal finances are extremely buoyant and that if they were to dip into them, they could afford to pay wages or severance pay without even noticing. It's the business finances that are suffering because of the lack of trade. 

I'm aware that I'm beginning to sound a little bitter, but the more I think about it, the crosser I become! During the seven years I've worked for them, I've never been paid holiday or sick pay, even when the business was doing a roaring trade (which, until recently, was always the case). 

I must start thinking positive thoughts!

Anyway, thanks again and have fun in Wales 

PS - In fairness, I should point out that the onus for allowing the holiday/sick pay situation to have continued without challenging it is on me.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Deb Douglas said:


> The thing is, mrypg9 - and this is what I find so galling - I know that their personal finances are extremely buoyant and that if they were to dip into them, they could afford to pay wages or severance pay without even noticing. It's the business finances that are suffering because of the lack of trade.
> 
> I'm aware that I'm beginning to sound a little bitter, but the more I think about it, the crosser I become! During the seven years I've worked for them, I've never been paid holiday or sick pay, even when the business was doing a roaring trade (which, until recently, was always the case).
> 
> ...



Fair enough...but don't let yourself be exploited again!!  Get that union card, sister!!
Keep us posted as to how you get on,

Mary


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Hi Deb.

My advice for what it is worth, is to go in at your normal time ready for work. If they then say, "What are you doing here, we can't afford to pay you, go away." or words to that effect, then you can claim constructive dismissal so haven't left voluntarily. You should then be able to get your paro.


----------



## Deb Douglas (Mar 25, 2015)

Mary - no, I won't and yes, I will! I really appreciate all your advice 

baldilocks, thanks for that - good idea  I've no idea what's going to happen when I next go in to work - which will be tomorrow - but I'm sure I'll find out pretty quickly.

Thanks again to everyone for your help.


----------



## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

On some threads we have proved conclusively that we are a collective mine of useless information, but sometimes, Deb, like this thread, we can be very useful....


----------



## Deb Douglas (Mar 25, 2015)

lol thrax! 

As I am a first-timer on this forum, I can't comment on past threads, but based on my experience, I will certainly post here again for advice - everyone has been so helpful - and hopefully, I'll be able to help someone one day too.

What a great bunch you are!


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Hi Deb.
> 
> My advice for what it is worth, is to go in at your normal time ready for work. If they then say, "What are you doing here, we can't afford to pay you, go away." or words to that effect, then you can claim constructive dismissal so haven't left voluntarily. You should then be able to get your paro.


I wouldn't advise that, Baldy. That might not be construed as constructive dismissal but breach of contract unless given as a written instruction in which case it's not constructive dismissal but would be construed as redundancy.

I'm not sure what constitutes 'constructive dismissal' in Spain but in the UK it has to be argued as it's often a case of he said/she said.

The best course is to seek advice, join a union and when the employer makes any kind of approach regarding her employment status to sit down and discuss it, all cards on the table.


----------

