# Any Americans in this forum?



## MisTBlu

I've been exploring this great site but the vast majority of the information seems to be useful primarily for expat Brits. Yanks like me who are thinking of retiring in Spain have a number of different issues to consider and I would like to connect with those who have made the move across the pond. Thanks!


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## xabiaxica

MisTBlu said:


> I've been exploring this great site but the vast majority of the information seems to be useful primarily for expat Brits. Yanks like me who are thinking of retiring in Spain have a number of different issues to consider and I would like to connect with those who have made the move across the pond. Thanks!


:welcome:

I'm a Brit.... but we have quite a few 'Yanks' here - some who have even managed to obtain a retirement visa!!

take a look at this http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-living-spain/2725-faqs-lots-useful-info.html

there's a section about visas with links to consulates & discussions about getting a retirement visa, among others


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## Guest

MisTBlu said:


> I've been exploring this great site but the vast majority of the information seems to be useful primarily for expat Brits. Yanks like me who are thinking of retiring in Spain have a number of different issues to consider and I would like to connect with those who have made the move across the pond. Thanks!


If I can be of any assistance just let me know. There are a couple of us "americans" who frequent this forum. Although my way of becoming a resident was by marriage to a spanish citizen and I came to reside here via the "reuniting a family" process, there might be other things that interest you that we could talk about.


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## baldilocks

My m-i-l is a Texan by birth but has spent most of her life outside the country including 45 years in Colombia so has no pensions, etc nor other entitlements (other than a passport) from the US. She lives with us here in Spain and was one of the reasons we moved here (cost of living and property is cheaper so we can manage quite comfortably on just my old-age-pension).

All in all we are an international dwelling - apart from the m-i-l, my wife is Colombian and I am English. We have two rescue dogs who were Spanish-born (and abandoned). Linguistically, m-i-l speaks Spanish and English, my wife is trilingual Spanish, English and French, I speak English and some French and Spanish with a smattering of Dutch and Portuguese. As for the dogs, they are trilingual (they understand English and Spanish but speak canine).

As far as the forum is concerned, we are non discriminatory and welcome all nationalities because, after all, we are all foreigners here in Spain (well 99% of us are) and most of what affects one nationality is applicable to others. We have both expats and immigrants, so whichever category you are proposing to fit in, you will be welcome.


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## A1sauce

I am a US citizen contemplating the move. Been lurking here for awhile, absorbing a lot info. I find that there is really good insight that is very applicable to us, so stay tuned. Many nice people that want to help. GL


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## 213979

Hello! I'm an American who is here because my husband is Spanish. Welcome to the forum!


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## elisa31bcn

I guess I'll chime in as one of the Americans here. The most challenging part is being able to get residency. I'm like the others, got my residency through marriage... happy to be living and working here, no regrets about leaving...


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## kalohi

Yet another American here in Spain thanks to my marriage to a Spaniard. I'm afraid I can't be of much help about retiring to Spain, but maybe I can help out with other things.

Welcome to the forum!


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## MisTBlu

*Thank you!*

Thank you xabiachica, mysticsmick, baldilocks, A1sauce, elenetxu, and elisa31bcn for your prompt, kind, hopeful, helpful messages. Baldilocks your response was such a treat to read.

I will check out the resources and bug you -- hopefully not too much as more specific questions arise.

One question I have for anyone who cares to respond: do you recall what things, if any, you wish you'd known before you made the leap? Is there information or resources that would have made your experience less painful, more enjoyable, less expensive?

Muchicimas gracias.


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## 213979

Don't waste precious suitcase space on stupid things like bar deodorant or contact lens solution like people advised me to do. You can very definitely find substitutes OR the very product you want if you are very brand loyal. 

This even goes for ranch dressing. Lidl's ranch isn't that bad. 

Also, throw your notions about efficiency and the way of running things out the window. Now. Forget them. You're not in the US anymore. Yes, your visa or residency process is going to take a good number of trips to the office, probably because you forgot one paper or something silly like that. Take it in stride. Don't get angry. Play the game better than the government employees do (I bring a HUGE binder with ALL my documents AND photocopies to government appointments. Very rarely do I have to make two trips.) Always bring a good book with you or your tablet/smartphone to kill time reading.


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## tobyo

memememememememe!!!!!!! although I haven't been here in a while. I am another American hoping/planning to retire to Spain. hopefully 2020......a ver lo que pasa.


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## MisTBlu

Great suggestion about keeping all papers in one place! 

The brand loyalty thing hits me right where I live, which is at Trader Joe's. I was out of the country for almost a year and hardly a day went by when I didn't long for a TJs. Though I would rule-out retiring in any US city without a TJs, I think I can manage just fine in Spain (if I can get one of my brothers to ship me a Trader Joe's care package now and then


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## skip o

We haven't made the move yet as Spains latest tax policies have given us pause. I read posts every day though.


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## tobyo

MisTBlu said:


> Great suggestion about keeping all papers in one place!
> 
> The brand loyalty thing hits me right where I live, which is at Trader Joe's. I was out of the country for almost a year and hardly a day went by when I didn't long for a TJs. Though I would rule-out retiring in any US city without a TJs, I think I can manage just fine in Spain (if I can get one of my brothers to ship me a Trader Joe's care package now and then


just noticed you're from CA. I grew up there. when are you planning to make your move? I have been spending the last year plus looking for a job and then finally got one so that's been taking up my time such that I haven't been coming to this forum much. I've done a bit of research and have a "retirement" page on my blog. check it out if you like. happy to make your acquaintance


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## elisa31bcn

I also am an ex-Californian who lived at Trader Joe's and had a list of things that I always said I could never live without. But life takes some strange turns...and it's funny how priorities change. I happily give up those things for the great intangibles, like never having to fight traffic on the 405 freeway, being able to walk alone at night in safety, etc. 
You never know until you try....


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## Pesky Wesky

tobyo said:


> memememememememe!!!!!!! although I haven't been here in a while. I am another American hoping/planning to retire to Spain. hopefully 2020......a ver lo que pasa.


Nice to hear from you again. I thought you'd given up the ghost!
I really like your blog


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## Guest

MisTBlu said:


> Great suggestion about keeping all papers in one place!
> 
> The brand loyalty thing hits me right where I live, which is at Trader Joe's. I was out of the country for almost a year and hardly a day went by when I didn't long for a TJs. Though I would rule-out retiring in any US city without a TJs, I think I can manage just fine in Spain (if I can get one of my brothers to ship me a Trader Joe's care package now and then


As a fellow Californian and recovered Trader Joe's addict, I can say -depending on where you will be settling - your recovery will happen rapidly... just wait until you enter your first Carrefour supermarket...


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## Pesky Wesky

MisTBlu said:


> Great suggestion about keeping all papers in one place!
> 
> The brand loyalty thing hits me right where I live, which is at Trader Joe's. I was out of the country for almost a year and hardly a day went by when I didn't long for a TJs. Though I would rule-out retiring in any US city without a TJs, I think I can manage just fine in Spain (if I can get one of my brothers to ship me a Trader Joe's care package now and then


Living out of the country for a year is one thing. If you're in another country to stay most people end up substituting, changing or forgetting about products from their country of origin. There'll always be something that you "miss", in my case tea, but in the end those care packages become smaller and less important. That's been my experience anyway.


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## baldilocks

MisTBlu said:


> Great suggestion about keeping all papers in one place!
> 
> The brand loyalty thing hits me right where I live, which is at Trader Joe's. I was out of the country for almost a year and hardly a day went by when I didn't long for a TJs. Though I would rule-out retiring in any US city without a TJs, I think I can manage just fine in Spain (if I can get one of my brothers to ship me a Trader Joe's care package now and then


1. ALWAYS make copies of every bit of paper, (official and otherwise) and offer that to officials who require them and keep tight hold of the originals. It is surprising how often documents get lost (such as the official when taking a photocopy leaves it in the copier or drops it en route between the copier and the desk). If they then query the fact that you have only offered a copy, you have the original in the folder in your *other* hand to back it up. Often with the quality of the copies you can get, they can't tell the difference (neither can you, so mark which is the original!)

2. As for brand loyalty (foods, clothes, household goods, etc), forget it unless there is a particular reason for having something (e.g. very low fat, allergic to certain ingredients). Often you will find that the quality and flavour/taste of what you can get in Spain is far superior to what you were able to get before without the hassle of importing stuff several thousand miles. Remember that sizes of things are different here (for a start things are in metric rather than Imperial measures) and there are different standards. Paper for example is in 'A' sizes and each successive size is either double or half the previous one - normal letter and general use paper is A4 (297mm x 210mm 11 5/8 x 7 7/8) and is a little larger than 'letter' but shorter than 'legal' and it's just not worth importing US sizes, etc. However, there are some pills and potions that are available in the US that you can't get here or only at a much higher cost (e.g. flaxseed oil capsules - Vitamin World) which it pays to import. If you are thinking of buying beds here, then mattress/sheet sizes are different so ask yourself whether it is worth bringing bedding (s.g. fitted sheets) that you might only use as dust-sheets. MOST IMPORTANT the voltage here is 220v 50Hz not 110v 60Hz!


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## 213979

Pesky Wesky said:


> Living out of the country for a year is one thing. If you're in another country to stay most people end up substituting, changing or forgetting about products from their country of origin. There'll always be something that you "miss", in my case tea, but in the end those care packages become smaller and less important. That's been my experience anyway.


After five years here I've found substitutes, ways to make what I want, or have learned to live without really stupid little cravings that I used to have. 

That being said, I recently was looking for a BBQ. I absolutely did not want the traditional Spanish one. I was giving up hope until I walked into MediaMarkt one day. Just after the entrance was a beautiful Weber grill at half it's usual price. 

The ONE thing I really wanted from home ended up being half off here because every local I have spoken to tells me that gas grills are cheating. 

I spent a lot of time on forums for other people who had my job before I came to Spain. I stocked my suitcase full of stupid stuff from the US that the others on the forum said doesn't exist here. Lies, all lies! Also, now that amazon.es exists, things are even easier to find.


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## tobyo

Pesky Wesky said:


> Nice to hear from you again. I thought you'd given up the ghost!
> I really like your blog


awe shucks, thanks so much!! I'll try to come 'round more often. this new job has been kinda stressful. I don't recommend starting a new job in yer 50s  Heh, but it's been good!! sooooooooooo much better than the last version 

can't I PLEASE just retire to Spain already!?!?!?!


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## tobyo

elisa31bcn said:


> I also am an ex-Californian who lived at Trader Joe's and had a list of things that I always said I could never live without. But life takes some strange turns...and it's funny how priorities change. I happily give up those things for the great intangibles, like never having to fight traffic on the 405 freeway, being able to walk alone at night in safety, etc.
> You never know until you try....


omg, the 405!!! funny thing...I grew up driving that freeway and every time I go back "home" that (and others) freeway scares the bejeebers out of me!! it's like 200% more crowded and there seem to be several more lanes now....

but, you're right, there are things that hubby and I think of that we won't have in Spain and yep, I am ready to give all of them up!! one thing I'm looking forward to is NOT having a car. omg....talk about the black hole of money!!


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## tobyo

mysticsmick said:


> As a fellow Californian and recovered Trader Joe's addict, I can say -depending on where you will be settling - your recovery will happen rapidly... just wait until you enter your first Carrefour supermarket...


I really liked the Mercadona that was right across the street from our hotel in Barcelona. oh. my. gawd. Talk about culture shock!! there were NO supermarkets like that when I lived in Madrid decades ago....


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## elisa31bcn

The not having to have a car was and is a totally exhilarating experience. Only possible because of living in a well-connected city, Barcelona..I lived the LA nightmare for 25 years, and it feels so wonderful to live life this way instead.


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## A1sauce

I have to drive to LA 3-4 times a week, 75 miles each way in traffic...no way to live. The American way of life is all based upon consumerism, which makes you into an indentured servant. Can't wait to move to Spain.


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## 213979

A1sauce said:


> I have to drive to LA 3-4 times a week, 75 miles each way in traffic...no way to live. *The American way of life is all based upon consumerism, which makes you into an indentured servant.* Can't wait to move to Spain.


hehehe, wait until you see Christmas here. 

My experience where I am is that, while you don't "buy everything", you certainly buy the best! Cell phones, tablets, cars, brand name clothes... I simply don't care, but I know I've been criticized about it. I had a conniption when I heard a friend being criticized for wearing flip flops to a wedding. 

I find more pressure here than I did back in my tiny New England home town.


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## MisTBlu

Wow, tobyo, you have built a truly AMAZING resource there -- the fruits of hours of excellent and focused research. I salute you and shall make full use of this with much gratitude in my heart.

My plans at this very moment are so in flux that in some ways it borders on the absurd to be at this site. Current work issues unresolved (+ or -), family health issues not resolved, house not sold, etc. etc. etc. But for a move of this magnitude I don't think it's too early to start considering and planning for all of the issues involved.


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## MisTBlu

elisa31bcn said:


> I also am an ex-Californian who lived at Trader Joe's and had a list of things that I always said I could never live without. But life takes some strange turns...and it's funny how priorities change. I happily give up those things for the great intangibles, like never having to fight traffic on the 405 freeway, being able to walk alone at night in safety, etc.
> You never know until you try....


So true. There are so many things I love about LA (going tonight to the fabulous Hollywood Bowl!) but when I think about the short time I spent living in a friend's flat in Barcelona and think about how human scale that city is in comparison, it becomes clearer that what I want is a life that is less in every way except quality of life.


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## MisTBlu

Thanks for the encouragement!


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## tobyo

MisTBlu said:


> Wow, tobyo, you have built a truly AMAZING resource there -- the fruits of hours of excellent and focused research. I salute you and shall make full use of this with much gratitude in my heart.
> 
> My plans at this very moment are so in flux that in some ways it borders on the absurd to be at this site. Current work issues unresolved (+ or -), family health issues not resolved, house not sold, etc. etc. etc. But for a move of this magnitude I don't think it's too early to start considering and planning for all of the issues involved.


thanks so much!! the research was done over many months and I thought it would be more useful to me and hopefully others if I put it all in one spot. and I'm sure it will have adjustments as the retirement date comes closer. for now I've had to concentrate on getting a job and now learning that new job. needless to say it's been stressful and doesn't leave me time for much else at the moment. but, with time, I will master this job too and then can re-focus on gathering more information for our retirement to Spain. 

I know what you mean about coming to this site. I came here shortly after hubby and I started discussing retiring to Spain and I wanted to start gathering information. Even tho it's years away. I think one really needs to be prepared for a move like this and it's never too early!! best of luck with all that you're dealing with and maybe I'll see you in Spain


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## mary_espana

*American in MAdrid*

Hey all!
I moved here from Minnesota last January and I am having a helluva hard time meeting people since I am still learning the language and it is SLOW MOVING! Jaja.

I am married to a Spanish man and life is good...mostly! It's just that I am starting to have the age-old culture shock where I kinda hate everything here and want to move home! ) It'll subside, I'm sure. But in the meantime, it would be great to share harrowing tales of fun and sorrow. 

So hello! Nice to meet you all!
Mary


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## 213979

mary_espana said:


> Hey all!
> I moved here from Minnesota last January and I am having a helluva hard time meeting people since I am still learning the language and it is SLOW MOVING! Jaja.
> 
> I am married to a Spanish man and life is good...mostly! It's just that I am starting to have the age-old culture shock where I kinda hate everything here and want to move home! ) It'll subside, I'm sure. But in the meantime, it would be great to share harrowing tales of fun and sorrow.
> 
> So hello! Nice to meet you all!
> Mary


Mary, great to meet you and welcome to Spain! I understand the culture shock... I still have my days! It's normal though. If you are in a bad spot and want me to send you info about CS, let me know.

Where are you? How was the wedding? Where was it? 

Welcome!


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## baldilocks

mary_espana said:


> Hey all!
> I moved here from Minnesota last January and I am having a helluva hard time meeting people since I am still learning the language and it is SLOW MOVING! Jaja.
> 
> I am married to a Spanish man and life is good...mostly! It's just that I am starting to have the age-old culture shock where I kinda hate everything here and want to move home! ) It'll subside, I'm sure. But in the meantime, it would be great to share harrowing tales of fun and sorrow.
> 
> So hello! Nice to meet you all!
> Mary


Hi Mary

I came here initially from the UK, it is s fairly big culture shock for most Brits unless they are on the costas. To be fair I had already got over my culture shock when I came to Spain because my first culture shock was probably greater than yours, in South America - Colombia.

You say Madrid in your profile, now, is that right in the city, on the outskirts, out in the Province or where? The way you are going to have to approach the subject of meeting people depends on just where you are. If you are away from the centre, you may well find people are more relaxed, friendly and open to being greeted by strangers. 

As Spaniards get acquainted, you will find that your American notions of "personal space" will have to go in the trash. They kiss you on both cheeks, frequently air-kiss to start with moving on to real kiss as they get to know you better (beware - men are frequently bristly!) Many will be more touchy-feely than you are used to. There is only one way to deal with that - get used to it! it is their way

Many Spaniards are warm and friendly and, as you get to know them, they will become your best-friends and from my experience, they will be true friends not fair-weather ones. Another question do you live in a house in a normal street/ gated community or a block of apartments? Do you have neighbours? Are they young/old/middle-aged, single, married with/without kids, etc.....


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## Pesky Wesky

mary_espana said:


> Hey all!
> I moved here from Minnesota last January and I am having a helluva hard time meeting people since I am still learning the language and it is SLOW MOVING! Jaja.
> 
> I am married to a Spanish man and life is good...mostly! It's just that I am starting to have the age-old culture shock where I kinda hate everything here and want to move home! ) It'll subside, I'm sure. But in the meantime, it would be great to share harrowing tales of fun and sorrow.
> 
> So hello! Nice to meet you all!
> Mary


Making friends/ acquaintances in a new city normally takes time, even in your own country, so it stands to reason that it'll take even more time in a country where you don't speak the language.
Don't give up. Spain's a great country that is worth getting to know, despite its huge problems!


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## elisa31bcn

Why don't you try meeting people through an organization like meetup? There's one in Madrid, and they have all kinds of activities for expats, like movies, excursions, etc. Until your Spanish improves, it's a way to connect with others who are have had to face similar challenges.


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## snorkeler

Mary, I am working on my Spanish too. I live on the coast.
I posted a sign in the library to exchange English for Spanish gratis and tons of people came out of the woodwork. There also is a group that does intercambio 2 days a week I go to. It takes time to make friends but it gets better. The American Embassy is in Madrid and they have events. 
Checkout couchsurfing.org. They do get togethers. 
I can relate to the hard days. Luckily the good ones outweigh the bad. Right now I am in pursuit of how to get reasonably priced vitamins which I can't seem to find here.


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## snorkeler

MisTBlu said:


> Great suggestion about keeping all papers in one place!
> 
> The brand loyalty thing hits me right where I live, which is at Trader Joe's. I was out of the country for almost a year and hardly a day went by when I didn't long for a TJs. Though I would rule-out retiring in any US city without a TJs, I think I can manage just fine in Spain (if I can get one of my brothers to ship me a Trader Joe's care package now and then


Aldis which either owns or is own by Trader Joes is here and sometimes I see Trader Joe
items mostly trail mixes.


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## Guest

MisTBlu said:


> Yanks like me who are thinking of retiring in Spain have a number of different issues to consider and I would like to connect with those who have made the move across the pond. Thanks!


I've been thinking about elenetxu's comment about what to leave behind. I would have left most of my clothes behind. I am usually spotted as a Brit (Irish/Scotch/Welsh ancestry gives me my Anglo-Saxon physical appearance), but mostly because there are so few americans up here in the North. That said... we've been remodeling our old farmhouse and I've been hanging out with the builders. They all say the same thing: you don't dress like a spaniard, and once I say that I am a native Californian who lived most of my life around San Francisco, they say "that explains it then". I can't say that I am enamored with spanish men's fashion styles, but then integration into another cultural does invite change.

The other thought that comes to mind is language. Yes, it behoves you to have a basic grasp of the Spanish language, yet where you settle will also modify what you know. Here in Asturias there is most definitely an accent that I've not heard in other parts of Spain (and I traveled about expensively from Madrid northwards and from west to east coasts for about 10 years before moving here and seeking residency). Up this neck of the woods 10% of the population speak Asturianu (also known as Bable), and although everyone speaks Spanish there are some different words: _a meadow_= _un prado_ in spanish, but here it's _un prau_. They also add ina/ine/ino to a lot of words: _un momentine_ for example. So be ready to be surprised wherever you come to land.


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## 213979

Just a bit to your east, the o is also often substituted for a u while eating up the last consonant. 
I have to make a bit more of an effort when we go to the tiny towns in the area!


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## Guest

baldilocks said:


> As Spaniards get acquainted, you will find that your American notions of "personal space" will have to go in the trash. They kiss you on both cheeks, frequently air-kiss to start with moving on to real kiss as they get to know you better (beware - men are frequently bristly!) Many will be more touchy-feely than you are used to. There is only one way to deal with that - get used to it! it is their way


An exception here: up here in Asturias you won't see much cheek kissing... well, okay guys will do it with women & women with women, but between guys it's a handshake and maybe a hug when you reallyyyyy get to know each other well. Just to say a bit more reserved here.



baldilocks said:


> Many Spaniards are warm and friendly and, as you get to know them, they will become your best-friends and from my experience, they will be true friends not fair-weather ones


This is true... no fair-weather friends... they are or aren't your friends... and even if they aren't your friends they are often very generous.


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## baldilocks

mysticsmick said:


> An exception here: up here in Asturias you won't see much cheek kissing... well, okay guys will do it with women & women with women, but between guys it's a handshake and maybe a hug when you reallyyyyy get to know each other well. Just to say a bit more reserved here.


I didn't mean guys with guys, as you well know - was replying to a female, although there are a few guys who are into guys, around. Guys who are just good friends and hug you, often scour your cheek lightly with a yard broom. I bet you don't get many kisses from the nuns either!


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## 213979

baldilocks said:


> I didn't mean guys with guys, as you well know - was replying to a female, although there are a few guys who are into guys, around. Guys who are just good friends and hug you, often scour your cheek lightly with a yard broom. *I bet you don't get many kisses from the nuns either!*


I do! I do! 

I'm even a dirty protestant!


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## baldilocks

elenetxu said:


> I do! I do!
> 
> I'm even a dirty protestant!


Me, too, on both counts!


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## staceystump

Hello all, 

I'm an American. Getting ready to retire from the military and researching into retiring to Spain, in the future n


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## Guest

staceystump said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I'm an American. Getting ready to retire from the military and researching into retiring to Spain, in the future n


Hello Stacey - welcome aboard!

Make sure you introduce yourself in La Tasca.

So, what are your thoughts about this move you're researching? Have any ideas of the environment you want to live in (weather, city/countryside, etc.)? Do you speak Spanish?

Let us know a bit more about yourself. It will help us a lot.


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## staceystump

*Americans Living in Spain*

hello;

I am considering the southern area of Spain. I will be retired military so initially I would like to live near the Naval base, Rota. There is a hospital/clinic there so I will have no problems with medical/prescription coverage. 

I have researched living in southern Spain, the euro/dollar conversion, and the housing market. I have lived in japan for 3 years and I know it takes a while to adjust, missing the TV shows in the states and the shopping. I plan on vacationing there spring break, April 2014.


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## baldilocks

staceystump said:


> hello;
> 
> I am considering the southern area of Spain. I will be retired military so initially I would like to live near the Naval base, Rota. There is a hospital/clinic there so I will have no problems with medical/prescription coverage.
> 
> I have researched living in southern Spain, the euro/dollar conversion, and the housing market. I have lived in japan for 3 years and I know it takes a while to adjust, missing the TV shows in the states and the shopping. I plan on vacationing there spring break, April 2014.


You will need to show documentary proof that you have medical coverage so you may have to have insurance.


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## xabiaxica

baldilocks said:


> You will need to show documentary proof that you have medical coverage so you may have to have insurance.


yep - that will all come into it when the visa is applied for


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## staceystump

yes, I know but I will have proof. Since I am retired military I am covered medically forever. One of the perks by retiring military.


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## tobyo

so....in April I took a job with an international company and unbeknownst to me before I started there....they are in Spain!! so my dreamer mind goes down this path....what if?? thinking, wondering if I could possibly TRANSFER within my own company?? yea, probably just a pipe dream but worth checking into perhaps! what are the chances? hmmmm........kidlet will go off to college in 5 years then I could start looking?


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## tobyo

staceystump said:


> hello;
> 
> I am considering the southern area of Spain. I will be retired military so initially I would like to live near the Naval base, Rota. There is a hospital/clinic there so I will have no problems with medical/prescription coverage.
> 
> I have researched living in southern Spain, the euro/dollar conversion, and the housing market. I have lived in japan for 3 years and I know it takes a while to adjust, missing the TV shows in the states and the shopping. I plan on vacationing there spring break, April 2014.


Hi Stacey and welcome! I want to retire to Malaga myself. we could be neighbors  good luck with your move and I hope you enjoy your spring vacation.


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## MisTBlu

mysticsmick said:


> I've been thinking about elenetxu's comment about what to leave behind. I would have left most of my clothes behind. I am usually spotted as a Brit (Irish/Scotch/Welsh ancestry gives me my Anglo-Saxon physical appearance), but mostly because there are so few americans up here in the North. That said... we've been remodeling our old farmhouse and I've been hanging out with the builders. They all say the same thing: you don't dress like a spaniard, and once I say that I am a native Californian who lived most of my life around San Francisco, they say "that explains it then". I can't say that I am enamored with spanish men's fashion styles, but then integration into another cultural does invite change.
> 
> The other thought that comes to mind is language. Yes, it behoves you to have a basic grasp of the Spanish language, yet where you settle will also modify what you know. Here in Asturias there is most definitely an accent that I've not heard in other parts of Spain (and I traveled about expensively from Madrid northwards and from west to east coasts for about 10 years before moving here and seeking residency). Up this neck of the woods 10% of the population speak Asturianu (also known as Bable), and although everyone speaks Spanish there are some different words: _a meadow_= _un prado_ in spanish, but here it's _un prau_. They also add ina/ine/ino to a lot of words: _un momentine_ for example. So be ready to be surprised wherever you come to land.


Clothes is a hard one for me as I am currently obese and didn't see anything that I could wear in any of the stores I visited. Shoes are also an issue as I have a wide foot and the only shoes I could find in Europe that fit me were in the men's section. Other than than, I love that different areas have their own "styles." Keeps things interesting.


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## MisTBlu

*Don't ya hate it when....*

someone starts a thread and then disappears?

Things are starting to settle. Learned on Monday that I will definitely be out of a job on December 31. Always thought I would work until they carry me out in a box but things in my field have changed so much that I must now get serious about retirement.

I want to live in an urban environment with good public transportation. As much as I adore Barcelona, I'm not certain I want to invest effort to learn Catalan. I speak and read Spanish (but write it like a first grader  so am thinking of someplace like Bilbao. Any expats here with knowledge of that region?

Thanks!


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## baldilocks

MisTBlu said:


> someone starts a thread and then disappears?
> 
> Things are starting to settle. Learned on Monday that I will definitely be out of a job on December 31. Always thought I would work until they carry me out in a box but things in my field have changed so much that I must now get serious about retirement.
> 
> I want to live in an urban environment with good public transportation. As much as I adore Barcelona, I'm not certain I want to invest effort to learn Catalan. I speak and read Spanish (but write it like a first grader  so am thinking of someplace like Bilbao. Any expats here with knowledge of that region?
> 
> Thanks!


Bilbao????? You don't want Barcelona because you don't want to learn Catalan. 

Guess what they speak in Bilbao??? 
Basque which is ten times worse than Catalan, it has no known connection with any other language! At least Catalan is pretty much a blend of Spanish and French. 

You'll be going for Galicia next where they speak Gallego a mixture of Portuguese and Spanish.


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## elisa31bcn

Just want to let you know it's very possible to live and work happily in Barcelona and not speak Catalan. I have lived 10 years in Barcelona, and my fluent Spanish has always been adequate. If you go in villages outside Barcelona, it is possible you will find less willing Spanish speakers, but you will survive...


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## baldilocks

elisa31bcn said:


> Just want to let you know it's very possible to live and work happily in Barcelona and not speak Catalan. I have lived 10 years in Barcelona, and my fluent Spanish has always been adequate. If you go in villages outside Barcelona, it is possible you will find less willing Spanish speakers, but you will survive...


 Or die in the attempt


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## MisTBlu

*Holy moly!*



baldilocks said:


> Bilbao????? You don't want Barcelona because you don't want to learn Catalan.
> 
> Guess what they speak in Bilbao???
> Basque which is ten times worse than Catalan, it has no known connection with any other language! At least Catalan is pretty much a blend of Spanish and French.
> 
> You'll be going for Galicia next where they speak Gallego a mixture of Portuguese and Spanish.


Obviously I didn't do my homework, or more precisely, I didn't do enough of it! Thanks, baldilocks, for disabusing me of THAT particular fantasy. On to Plan C.


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## tobyo

MisTBlue - you don't need to speak Catalan in Barcelona(as another poster pointed out), my Spanish worked beautifully when I was there. It's also about as urban as you get, unless you go to Madrid. I think it's an excellent choice to retire to. Hubby and I have tossed it around too. that's where my company is that I'm dreaming of getting a transfer to  a ver.....

you could think of it as an opportunity to learn a new language: Catalan. it's not all that different from Spanish from my limited knowledge of signs when I was there 3 years ago. good luck!


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## MisTBlu

elisa31bcn said:


> Just want to let you know it's very possible to live and work happily in Barcelona and not speak Catalan. I have lived 10 years in Barcelona, and my fluent Spanish has always been adequate. If you go in villages outside Barcelona, it is possible you will find less willing Spanish speakers, but you will survive...


Thank you for the encouragement. I got along fine with my Spanish when I was there (much better than in Madrid years earlier) but I also know from my time in South America, where I had nothing in Quechua or Aymara, that I my experience wasn't as deep as it would have been had I had even a rudimentary knowledge of either of the local languages.


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## MisTBlu

tobyo said:


> MisTBlue - you don't need to speak Catalan in Barcelona(as another poster pointed out), my Spanish worked beautifully when I was there. It's also about as urban as you get, unless you go to Madrid. I think it's an excellent choice to retire to. Hubby and I have tossed it around too. that's where my company is that I'm dreaming of getting a transfer to  a ver.....
> 
> you could think of it as an opportunity to learn a new language: Catalan. it's not all that different from Spanish from my limited knowledge of signs when I was there 3 years ago. good luck!



tobyo, I really hope the opportunity to transfer to Spain works for you as it will get you in the county with an income long before you are ready to retire.

I agree that Catalan isn't mandatory. I just know that it would be much easier.

A ver...


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## Guest

*My experience*



MisTBlu said:


> someone starts a thread and then disappears?
> 
> Things are starting to settle. Learned on Monday that I will definitely be out of a job on December 31. Always thought I would work until they carry me out in a box but things in my field have changed so much that I must now get serious about retirement.
> 
> I want to live in an urban environment with good public transportation. As much as I adore Barcelona, I'm not certain I want to invest effort to learn Catalan. I speak and read Spanish (but write it like a first grader  so am thinking of someplace like Bilbao. Any expats here with knowledge of that region?
> 
> Thanks!


In Catalunya there are some people who will tell you that you have to learn Catalan in order to reside there. That isn't true in País Vasco. Both provinces want their independence from Spain, but for various different reasons and both have their own ways of expressing their individuation from Spain.

The reality is that one will encounter street signs with both spanish and local language names/spellings... here in Asturias we have _Calle_ and _Cai_ before the street names. I was told by one catalan that I would have to learn Catalan within one year of moving to Barcelona, but no one even mentioned learning Euskari in País Vasco.

I would never recommend Bilbao as a place to live... nothing really against it - just never felt comfortable there. On the other hand I would and do recommend Vitoria-Gasteiz (the provincial capital of Alava - one of the 7 provinces that make up the Autonomous Community of País Vasco - one hour South of Bilbao, the capital of the province of Vizcaya). 

Vitoria has everything: a well preserved "case viejo" - the medieval center of the city sitting a top a small hill surrounded by more recent buildings on the flats, a modern transportation system transportation system of buses, trams, and communal bicycles... it's a great place if you like biking. With a population of just under 240,000 it has been Europe's Green Capital for 2 years in a row. Very tech oriented, excellent music schools that fill Vitoria's main pedestrian walks with musicians playing every instrument and type of music that you can name (okay, no grand pianos). Lots of festivals, movie theatres, a good climate, good folk, museums... you name it and Vitoria has it.

In a 10 minute drive from the center of the city you're in the countryside... mountains, valleys, rivers, small pueblos... really breathtaking.

And to end this bit of my love affair with Vitoria: you will find people from every country in the world in there. In that sense it has something in common with Barcelona.

Here's a link to a Wiki article of Vitoria-Gasteiz:

Vitoria-Gasteiz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## baldilocks

mysticsmick said:


> In Catalunya there are some people who will tell you that you have to learn Catalan in order to reside there. That isn't true in País Vasco. Both provinces want their independence from Spain, but for various different reasons and both have their own ways of expressing their individuation from Spain.
> 
> The reality is that one will encounter street signs with both spanish and local language names/spellings... here in Asturias we have _Calle_ and _Cai_ before the street names. I was told by one catalan that I would have to learn Catalan within one year of moving to Barcelona, but no one even mentioned learning Euskari in País Vasco.
> 
> I would never recommend Bilbao as a place to live... nothing really against it - just never felt comfortable there. On the other hand I would and do recommend Vitoria-Gasteiz (the provincial capital of Alava - one of the 7 provinces that make up the Autonomous Community of País Vasco - one hour South of Bilbao, the capital of the province of Vizcaya).
> 
> Vitoria has everything: a well preserved "case viejo" - the medieval center of the city sitting a top a small hill surrounded by more recent buildings on the flats, a modern transportation system transportation system of buses, trams, and communal bicycles... it's a great place if you like biking. With a population of just under 240,000 it has been Europe's Green Capital for 2 years in a row. Very tech oriented, excellent music schools that fill Vitoria's main pedestrian walks with musicians playing every instrument and type of music that you can name (okay, no grand pianos). Lots of festivals, movie theatres, a good climate, good folk, museums... you name it and Vitoria has it.
> 
> In a 10 minute drive from the center of the city you're in the countryside... mountains, valleys, rivers, small pueblos... really breathtaking.
> 
> Here's a link to a Wiki article of Vitoria-Gasteiz:
> 
> Vitoria-Gasteiz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I've only ever been round Vittoria en route from UK to where we live in Spain or vice versa. I found the aspects of both Bilbo and Donostia depressing and the road (the old E05) through the canyon dark and threatening. Much prefer Andalucía. Here they speak Andalu' although in this village they speak more Castillero.


----------



## MisTBlu

mysticsmick said:


> In Catalunya there are some people who will tell you that you have to learn Catalan in order to reside there. That isn't true in País Vasco. Both provinces want their independence from Spain, but for various different reasons and both have their own ways of expressing their individuation from Spain.
> 
> The reality is that one will encounter street signs with both spanish and local language names/spellings... here in Asturias we have _Calle_ and _Cai_ before the street names. I was told by one catalan that I would have to learn Catalan within one year of moving to Barcelona, but no one even mentioned learning Euskari in País Vasco.
> 
> I would never recommend Bilbao as a place to live... nothing really against it - just never felt comfortable there. On the other hand I would and do recommend Vitoria-Gasteiz (the provincial capital of Alava - one of the 7 provinces that make up the Autonomous Community of País Vasco - one hour South of Bilbao, the capital of the province of Vizcaya).
> 
> Vitoria has everything: a well preserved "case viejo" - the medieval center of the city sitting a top a small hill surrounded by more recent buildings on the flats, a modern transportation system transportation system of buses, trams, and communal bicycles... it's a great place if you like biking. With a population of just under 240,000 it has been Europe's Green Capital for 2 years in a row. Very tech oriented, excellent music schools that fill Vitoria's main pedestrian walks with musicians playing every instrument and type of music that you can name (okay, no grand pianos). Lots of festivals, movie theatres, a good climate, good folk, museums... you name it and Vitoria has it.
> 
> In a 10 minute drive from the center of the city you're in the countryside... mountains, valleys, rivers, small pueblos... really breathtaking.
> 
> And to end this bit of my love affair with Vitoria: you will find people from every country in the world in there. In that sense it has something in common with Barcelona.
> 
> Here's a link to a Wiki article of Vitoria-Gasteiz:
> 
> Vitoria-Gasteiz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Thanks for the information, mysticsmick. Certainly worth a visit!

(If only some kind person with knowledge of the intersection between the local language and English would kindly edit that Wikipedia page, all would be well with the world.)


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## Pesky Wesky

baldilocks said:


> Bilbao????? You don't want Barcelona because you don't want to learn Catalan.
> 
> Guess what they speak in Bilbao???
> Basque which is ten times worse than Catalan, it has no known connection with any other language! At least Catalan is pretty much a blend of Spanish and French.
> 
> You'll be going for Galicia next where they speak Gallego a mixture of Portuguese and Spanish.


Bilbao is in the Basque country.
In the Basque country they speak Basque (Euskera)
But, not exclusively. Most people are more fluent in Spanish (Castellano) than they are in Basque, although education in now Bi/ tri lingual with Basque and English which has led to some kids being trilingual and other being very mixed up!!

As is usual, in smaller places the native language is more deeply rooted, but I can assure you that you'll have no problem learning or speaking in Spanish in Bilbao

(Written from the public library in La Diputación, just off Gran Via, Bilbao)


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## Pesky Wesky

baldilocks said:


> I've only ever been round Vittoria en route from UK to where we live in Spain or vice versa. I found the aspects of both Bilbo and Donostia depressing and the road (the old E05) through the canyon dark and threatening. Much prefer Andalucía. Here they speak Andalu' although in this village they speak more Castillero.


That's the problem of never stopping off to visit the places we pass through.
I wouldn't say that Bilbao nor San Seb are the picture of beauty, but they do have their attractive areas - and the pintxos are world famous!!


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## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> That's the problem of never stopping off to visit the places we pass through.
> I wouldn't say that Bilbao nor San Seb are the picture of beauty, but they do have their attractive areas - and the pintxos are world famous!!


Most occasions it has been winter time and either raining or snowing, driving a RHD lwb Renault Master or a sluggish Berlingo, or on long tiring hops none of which are conducive to admiring scenery.


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## Pesky Wesky

baldilocks said:


> Most occasions it has been winter time and either raining or snowing, driving a RHD lwb Renault Master or a sluggish Berlingo, or on long tiring hops none of which are conducive to admiring scenery.


OK.

I'll let you off :tongue:


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## 213979

baldilocks said:


> Bilbao????? You don't want Barcelona because you don't want to learn Catalan.
> 
> Guess what they speak in Bilbao???
> Basque which is ten times worse than Catalan, it has no known connection with any other language! At least Catalan is pretty much a blend of Spanish and French.
> 
> You'll be going for Galicia next where they speak Gallego a mixture of Portuguese and Spanish.



Basque is only an issue if you want to go to some of the seriously rural towns outside of the city. If you're going to live in the Bilbao metro area, you can very easily get by with Castellano. *EDIT: It's also an issue if you want to work in certain fields like education. (That's why my husband and I got out.)

I love, love, love northern Spain. Bilbao is my favorite city because it's got a gritty side. (When I go out, I want to hear rock. That doesn't happen much in Santander.) There are plenty of great cities/towns connected to Bilbao by metro. I wouldn't limit yourself to living in Bilbao centro! 

I lived just outside Bilbao for two years and my husband is from the area. Let me know if you need any help!


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## mickbcn

MisTBlu said:


> someone starts a thread and then disappears?
> 
> Things are starting to settle. Learned on Monday that I will definitely be out of a job on December 31. Always thought I would work until they carry me out in a box but things in my field have changed so much that I must now get serious about retirement.
> 
> I want to live in an urban environment with good public transportation. As much as I adore Barcelona, I'm not certain I want to invest effort to learn Catalan. I speak and read Spanish (but write it like a first grader  so am thinking of someplace like Bilbao. Any expats here with knowledge of that region?
> 
> Thanks!


You dont need to learn catalan to live here if you don't want.. but you will be more welcome here if you try to learn a little bit. is not difficult..then will be more easy for you understand french.italian and portuguesse.


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## Olivia16

Yes, I've lived here for over 2 years, going into my 2nd year of university.


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## aletadetiburon

Hey! Just belatedly chiming in as another American expat here in Spain. Just moved here in April, gained residency through marriage to an EU citizen (though he's German, not Spanish).


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## MisTBlu

aletadetiburon said:


> Hey! Just belatedly chiming in as another American expat here in Spain. Just moved here in April, gained residency through marriage to an EU citizen (though he's German, not Spanish).


How's it going so far, altadetiburon?


----------



## aletadetiburon

*Life is good!*



MisTBlu said:


> How's it going so far, altadetiburon?


Pretty well! 

We've bypassed most of the hurdles of getting our residency paperwork in order and getting our stuff moved in. We're now pretty familiar with our neighborhood (though we're in Ciutat Vella so there's always something new to discover in a corner where you never looked previously) and got the hang of navigating the city via public transit. We've even mastered Ikea shopping trips without a vehicle! 

Now the hubs and I are focused on establishing our own daily schedules, building our social networks, improving our language skills, and getting to know the rhythm of the seasons, both re: holidays and weather (our flat has no a/c so summer has been challenging - and many of our favorite shops are closed for the month!). These things will take some time, as well as getting to know the different brands over here and what we like/don't like, how to find substitutes for this & that, etc.

We're still unpacking boxes (we brought a whole shipping container's worth) and slowly acquiring the furniture we need to be fully settled into our flat, but it's starting to feel like home!

I'm missing Amazon.com though; Amazon.es doesn't have a very good selection, very few items have reviews, shipping is slow, and delivery to our flat is not very dependable.

However, it's a worthwhile sacrifice in exchange for better health care! Today I went to the doctor for the first time using our private insurance (Sanitas) and it was an incredibly pleasant experience. The insurance is cheap, the visit cost NOTHING and the prescription (antibiotic) cost less than 5€ !

Overall, life is good!


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## crookesey

Completely off topic, but what the hell?

I read a quote many years ago, it went something like this:-

'There are two types of Americans, those that never leave US borders, and those that do'. I have Ernest Hemingway or Bill Bryson in mind but can't find anything similar accredited to either of them, any ideas you Colonials?

I have never visited the USA so only have experience of meeting the latter, I must say that I have never had any bad experiences and find Americans in Europe to be very interested in everything European, mainly I suppose because it is where most of their forefathers originated from.


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## aletadetiburon

MisTBlu said:


> One question I have for anyone who cares to respond: do you recall what things, if any, you wish you'd known before you made the leap? Is there information or resources that would have made your experience less painful, more enjoyable, less expensive?
> 
> Muchicimas gracias.


Bring as little as possible, or else hire a moving company that takes care of all of your residency paperwork and shipping (if you have the budget for that)! We were on a moderate budget and chose to bring a whole 20' shipping container that we loaded & unloaded ourselves to save money. The container paperwork was a huge pain for us, and it required us to expediently get all of our other residency paperwork in a row before the container could even go through customs... including empadronamiento paperwork from the US (which does not exist!). You find my posts about that whole ordeal, not fun. We also had to pay another 1,000 € to hire a moving company on this end because our tiny street is inaccessible by a truck large enough to deliver the container to our door... which meant getting bids from moving companies and working with them while our language skills were still very fledgeling. 

One thing about language - I was surprised to discover how different the Spanish is here than what's taught in U.S. classrooms and spoken in Latin America (there's also a lot of variation amongst Latin American countries!) I had studied Spanish for several years in high school and college, and studied abroad for a semester in Ecuador... but I'm still finding it rather difficult because of the regional differences. There is a funny video on YouTube about this! That being said, I'm finding that I'm picking up Catalan pretty easily - it's so similar to Spanish, and often signs/menus/etc will have side-by-side with Spanish translation, and sometimes English as well. When it varies from Spanish, it's often more similar to Italian and French.

Spaniard bureaucrats LOVE official documents, and they must be the originals, on paper, and often they'll expect you to bring photocopies for them to keep! No e-documents allowed. Gather more than you think you'll need - residency documents if you've lived in any other countries, recent leases, tax returns, old passports, etc. You might need this stuff before you leave for the visa application anyway. Get any important legal documents like birth certificates, marriage & divorce certificates, etc. apostilled in your home state before you leave - it can only be done in the state capital, which is a pain if you don't live close to there anymore, but it's much more of a hassle to do it after you arrive! And then make sure to bring all of the documents you've gathered in your luggage, NOT in the shipping container, because you may need them to get the shipping container through customs.

Someone else said in a previous comment to not bother bringing spares of your favorite brand of deodorant, etc. I would actually disagree with that, it really depends on how much space you have (we had extra space in our shipping container) and what your requirements are (why you like the brands you do). I am allergic to many fragrances and petroleum products in beauty care products, so there were a limited number of products in the U.S. that I could use - I've searched for them here and haven't found those brands or anything comparable, so I brought extras, and when I run out I plan to have friends and family ship them to me occasionally, or stock up when I travel to the U.S.

Feel free to ask more questions! I'm happy to help in any way I can.


----------



## MisTBlu

crookesey said:


> Completely off topic, but what the hell?
> 
> I read a quote many years ago, it went something like this:-
> 
> 'There are two types of Americans, those that never leave US borders, and those that do'. I have Ernest Hemingway or Bill Bryson in mind but can't find anything similar accredited to either of them, any ideas you Colonials?
> 
> I have never visited the USA so only have experience of meeting the latter, I must say that I have never had any bad experiences and find Americans in Europe to be very interested in everything European, mainly I suppose because it is where most of their forefathers originated from.


Seems like something Bryson would say. 

I used to think it odd that so few Americans had a passport. Up until the late 1990s it was about 15%. (The rules were changed then and one is now needed to vsit Canada and Mexico.) But someone pointed out to me that because of its size and diversity, one could spend ones life just traveling in the US and still not see everything. Of course this means not experiencing fully different cultures, languages, food, ways of being but not everyone has that need -- not even a lot of Europeans! And in a lot of American cities one can experience a shadow of those things because of the large expat communities from around the world.

What I find more disturbing than those who never leave the US is those who never go far from where they were born and raised. I know of people who have never been more than 50 miles away from home!


----------



## MisTBlu

aletadetiburon said:


> Bring as little as possible, or else hire a moving company that takes care of all of your residency paperwork and shipping (if you have the budget for that)! We were on a moderate budget and chose to bring a whole 20' shipping container that we loaded & unloaded ourselves to save money. The container paperwork was a huge pain for us, and it required us to expediently get all of our other residency paperwork in a row before the container could even go through customs... including empadronamiento paperwork from the US (which does not exist!). You find my posts about that whole ordeal, not fun. We also had to pay another 1,000 € to hire a moving company on this end because our tiny street is inaccessible by a truck large enough to deliver the container to our door... which meant getting bids from moving companies and working with them while our language skills were still very fledgeling.
> 
> One thing about language - I was surprised to discover how different the Spanish is here than what's taught in U.S. classrooms and spoken in Latin America (there's also a lot of variation amongst Latin American countries!) I had studied Spanish for several years in high school and college, and studied abroad for a semester in Ecuador... but I'm still finding it rather difficult because of the regional differences. There is a funny video on YouTube about this! That being said, I'm finding that I'm picking up Catalan pretty easily - it's so similar to Spanish, and often signs/menus/etc will have side-by-side with Spanish translation, and sometimes English as well. When it varies from Spanish, it's often more similar to Italian and French.
> 
> Spaniard bureaucrats LOVE official documents, and they must be the originals, on paper, and often they'll expect you to bring photocopies for them to keep! No e-documents allowed. Gather more than you think you'll need - residency documents if you've lived in any other countries, recent leases, tax returns, old passports, etc. You might need this stuff before you leave for the visa application anyway. Get any important legal documents like birth certificates, marriage & divorce certificates, etc. apostilled in your home state before you leave - it can only be done in the state capital, which is a pain if you don't live close to there anymore, but it's much more of a hassle to do it after you arrive! And then make sure to bring all of the documents you've gathered in your luggage, NOT in the shipping container, because you may need them to get the shipping container through customs.
> 
> Someone else said in a previous comment to not bother bringing spares of your favorite brand of deodorant, etc. I would actually disagree with that, it really depends on how much space you have (we had extra space in our shipping container) and what your requirements are (why you like the brands you do). I am allergic to many fragrances and petroleum products in beauty care products, so there were a limited number of products in the U.S. that I could use - I've searched for them here and haven't found those brands or anything comparable, so I brought extras, and when I run out I plan to have friends and family ship them to me occasionally, or stock up when I travel to the U.S.
> 
> Feel free to ask more questions! I'm happy to help in any way I can.


Thank you SO much for taking the time to provide an overview of your experience. I'm afraid I will have to go the more expensive route as I am a single woman with very bad knees and a back that wants to give out every other second. But at least that option is available! (Just as an aside, I've been using Crystal Stick deodorant for a long time. One tube last for years. The one in my travel bag is from July 2007 and it is still going strong. It has no perfumes or other allergy provoking elements.) 

I did fine with my Latin-American flavored Spanish when I was in Spain. To me the differences are very much like the English spoken in the US and that in the UK. One of my colleagues, a Brit, is constantly delighting/confounding me with never before heard usages of what I thought was our common language  I think it's the same with Castillano and the Spanish spoken in Latin America. There are significant differences too between Mexico, Central and South America and all the countries within because of the same issue as in Spain -- they are all influenced by the aboriginal languages. However, despite the subtleties they can at least understand one another, something I cannot always say about English speakers ;-)

It's really funny about language. I am relatively fluent in Spanish, can get by in French and even do okay with Portuguese but Italian flummoxes me! I don't find that many cognates in Catalan. I get the e-newsletter from the Barcelona Symphony Orchestra and when I try to read it without translation I constantly get it wrong. It looks an undeciferable as Croatian or Czech!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

MisTBlu said:


> Thank you SO much for taking the time to provide an overview of your experience. I'm afraid I will have to go the more expensive route as I am a single woman with very bad knees and a back that wants to give out every other second. But at least that option is available! (Just as an aside, I've been using Crystal Stick deodorant for a long time. One tube last for years. The one in my travel bag is from July 2007 and it is still going strong. It has no perfumes or other allergy provoking elements.)
> 
> I did fine with my Latin-American flavored Spanish when I was in Spain. To me the differences are very much like the English spoken in the US and that in the UK. One of my colleagues, a Brit, is constantly delighting/confounding me with never before heard usages of what I thought was our common language  I think it's the same with Castillano and the Spanish spoken in Latin America. There are significant differences too between Mexico, Central and South America and all the countries within because of the same issue as in Spain -- they are all influenced by the aboriginal languages. However, despite the subtleties they can at least understand one another, something I cannot always say about English speakers ;-)
> 
> It's really funny about language. I am relatively fluent in Spanish, can get by in French and even do okay with Portuguese but Italian flummoxes me! I don't find that many cognates in Catalan. I get the e-newsletter from the Barcelona Symphony Orchestra and when I try to read it without translation I constantly get it wrong. It looks an undeciferable as Croatian or Czech!


Crystal type deodorant is available in Spain in larger healthfood kind of shops.
And, I agree about South American and Castillian Spanish - similar to UK and US English


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## baldilocks

MisTBlu said:


> Thank you SO much for taking the time to provide an overview of your experience. I'm afraid I will have to go the more expensive route as I am a single woman with very bad knees and a back that wants to give out every other second. But at least that option is available! (Just as an aside, I've been using Crystal Stick deodorant for a long time. One tube last for years. The one in my travel bag is from July 2007 and it is still going strong. It has no perfumes or other allergy provoking elements.)
> 
> I did fine with my Latin-American flavored Spanish when I was in Spain. To me the differences are very much like the English spoken in the US and that in the UK. One of my colleagues, a Brit, is constantly delighting/confounding me with never before heard usages of what I thought was our common language  I think it's the same with Castillano and the Spanish spoken in Latin America. There are significant differences too between Mexico, Central and South America and all the countries within because of the same issue as in Spain -- they are all influenced by the aboriginal languages. However, despite the subtleties they can at least understand one another, something I cannot always say about English speakers ;-)
> 
> It's really funny about language. I am relatively fluent in Spanish, can get by in French and even do okay with Portuguese but Italian flummoxes me! I don't find that many cognates in Catalan. I get the e-newsletter from the Barcelona Symphony Orchestra and when I try to read it without translation I constantly get it wrong. It looks an undeciferable as Croatian or Czech!


I started learning my Spanish in Colombia so have had to adapt to the local version which is pretty much Andalu' but with local differences - we call it Castillero.


----------



## aletadetiburon

Re: deodorants - Indeed crystal deodorant is available here! Unfortunately it doesn't work for me. There is a modest selection in larger health food shops, but even many of those often contain things I'm sensitive to. Oh well, that's my deal - thankfully most people don't have this issue. I just found another store today with a decent selection, including a few brands I've never seen before! I'll keep trying, it's just frustrating having to start my search all over here in Spain.

Re: languages - you're in a good place if you don't have much trouble understanding the local Spanish! Indeed, the Castellano spoken here is clearly influenced by Catalan. 

The trick to reading Catalan is that the X's often take the place of the ch in Spanish - for ex. I've seen "horchata" written in Catalan as "orxata". _chocolate_ = _xocolata_ (very important to know!) Also you'll see rr instead of the Spanish l or ll - so _peluqueria_ becomes _perruqueria_; _calle_ becomes _carrer_. The other key thing to know is that amb = _with_ (not _and_, even though it looks like it should be, but similar in meaning). As you are immersed in it, you'll just pick up those parallels and soon enough you'll be able to read it! Speaking it is another thing though - at some point I'll probably take Catalan classes to learn the grammar, pronunciation, etc.


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## baldilocks

> calle becomes carrer


Are you sure that it isn't "carrera"?


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## aletadetiburon

baldilocks said:


> Are you sure that it isn't "carrera"?


Definitely _carrer_; just look at a street map of Barcelona or any town in Catalonia and you'll see half the street names start with the word _carrer_.


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## baldilocks

aletadetiburon said:


> Definitely _carrer_; just look at a street map of Barcelona or any town in Catalonia and you'll see half the street names start with the word _carrer_.


but if you do the same away from Cataluña you will find that there are Calles and Carreras sometime both in the same street name, e.g. I live in Calle de la Carrera de Jesús.


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## 213979

baldilocks said:


> but if you do the same away from Cataluña you will find that there are Calles and Carreras sometime both in the same street name, e.g. I live in *Calle de la Carrera de Jesús.*


You sure 'Chus isn't racing someone down your street? 


...I'll see myself out.


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## MisTBlu

aletadetiburon said:


> Re: deodorants - Indeed crystal deodorant is available here! Unfortunately it doesn't work for me. There is a modest selection in larger health food shops, but even many of those often contain things I'm sensitive to. Oh well, that's my deal - thankfully most people don't have this issue. I just found another store today with a decent selection, including a few brands I've never seen before! I'll keep trying, it's just frustrating having to start my search all over here in Spain.
> 
> Re: languages - you're in a good place if you don't have much trouble understanding the local Spanish! Indeed, the Castellano spoken here is clearly influenced by Catalan.
> 
> The trick to reading Catalan is that the X's often take the place of the ch in Spanish - for ex. I've seen "horchata" written in Catalan as "orxata". _chocolate_ = _xocolata_ (very important to know!) Also you'll see rr instead of the Spanish l or ll - so _peluqueria_ becomes _perruqueria_; _calle_ becomes _carrer_. The other key thing to know is that amb = _with_ (not _and_, even though it looks like it should be, but similar in meaning). As you are immersed in it, you'll just pick up those parallels and soon enough you'll be able to read it! Speaking it is another thing though - at some point I'll probably take Catalan classes to learn the grammar, pronunciation, etc.


Well done you for recognizing the differences so early in your adventure! Gives me hope.


----------



## Turco1

tobyo said:


> so....in April I took a job with an international company and unbeknownst to me before I started there....they are in Spain!! so my dreamer mind goes down this path....what if?? thinking, wondering if I could possibly TRANSFER within my own company?? yea, probably just a pipe dream but worth checking into perhaps! what are the chances? hmmmm........kidlet will go off to college in 5 years then I could start looking?


Hi Tobyo,

Just to clarify, you were in America and landed a job with an international company that has an office in Spain?


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## Melissa58275

*Another American...*

Wow...not sure how I missed this thread for the past few months! I, too, am an American in the process of evaluating a move to Spain. My situation in brief: I'll retire at the end of this year and have plans to spend a minimum of 5 months starting in Feb. in various parts of Europe. (Yes, I know about the Schengen visa 90-day rule and worked out ...I think...a way to manage the longer stay.)

I'll start with 6 weeks in Germany, where I have friends and where I expect to take a course to become certified as an English language teacher. I don't need or expect to make a living at this...just want the certification as a "back up" plan, to take me elsewhere in the world should I want to go and to give me the confidence to offer my services on a part-time basis wherever I land, if that works out.

But because I'm pretty sure Germany is way too cold for me full time, I'm determined to explore Spain and southern France as a possible full-time, permanent expat location. So, I've booked an apt. in Valencia for the month of March and one in Montpellier, France for 6 weeks after that. The hope is that this will be long enough for me to decide A) if the expat life really does appeal to me and B) if either Spain or France is a likely good fit for me. If the answer to both is yes, I'll move on to phase II of my retirement plan, coming back to the states to dispose of my house here (rent it longer term or sell) and apply for a residency visa there. Then I'll give it a try for 6-months or a year or two or forever. 

Never been to either France or Spain before, don't speak either language, but I'm willing...nay, determined...to learn whichever is needed, depending on where I land. I've been reading this and other forums for most of a year's time now and have a strong suspicion that I'm going to feel more at home in Spain than France (I love that folks say Spaniards are loud and friendly. Living there may offer me the first time in my life when I'm NOT the loudest person in the room!). 

Very much enjoying the discussions on this thread about language and the appeal of various parts of Spain. For me, Valencia seemed a good place to start...a vibrant, fairly large, cosmopolitan city, but less expensive than Barcelona. Warm-to-hot climate, the sea nearby, good transit connections to Germany (Ryan Air!) and the US and train connections to the rest of Spain. Plus...there's apparently a knitting group! ( Knitters world wide unite!)


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## xabiaxica

aletadetiburon said:


> Definitely _carrer_; just look at a street map of Barcelona or any town in Catalonia and you'll see half the street names start with the word _carrer_.


same in Valencia - _carrer_


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## baldilocks

elenetxu said:


> You sure 'Chus isn't racing someone down your street?
> 
> 
> ...I'll see myself out.


Sure? - Yes because that's where I live.


----------



## LILTRBO

I'll be there someday soon! My husband and I are looking to relocate to Spain. Well, let me clarify- he is a dual citizen (UK/US) and he and his mother has lived in Spain for most of his life. He came to the US for a few years, but we have decided we want to move over there. I'm one of those Americans that never had a passport, has only seen the western part of the US (with a brief 5 day trip to NYC), but always dreamed of traveling. 

Funny, the two conveniences I imagine I will miss the most have been addressed here; Trader Joes and Amazon. 

My main concerns at this point are:

1. How to properly handle my finances (my main income will be working for an American company, but my husband and I are in social media and internet-based marketing, so we can be anywhere). I'm worried especially about getting double taxed, as my income will not be much to start with, yikes!

2. How to go about getting health insurance. I'm not about to pay for this awful American healthcare, and if I'm still a citizen its my understanding that not only will I be taxed here, but I will be required to have healthcare or pay the fine.

3. If it will be difficult to make quality friends.  My husband assures me it won't be difficult. It was VERY difficult in Las Vegas for the first few years, but that's mostly because I don't live the same way most people my age do here; Vegas is weird. I just made some amazing friends this last year, and it will be hard to leave them behind.

4. How good the internet/wifi is there. Due to my job, I absolutely have to have a strong, consistent connection, at all times.

Wow, sorry for the rambling! Hi everyone!


----------



## Melissa58275

LILTRBO said:


> 2. How to go about getting health insurance. I'm not about to pay for this awful American healthcare, and if I'm still a citizen its my understanding that not only will I be taxed here, but I will be required to have healthcare or pay the fine.


LILTRBO: Just a clarification for you here: If you become a bona fide expat, living outside of the US for 330 days out of the year, you will not be subject to pay the fine or be covered by US health insurance. The law says you are considered to be compliant. The problem arises for those of us who wish to spend more than the allowed 90-day gap without insurance (and without paying fine) out of the country but will not meet the qualifications of a bona fide expatriate. We must have US health insurance (or pay the tax penalty) AND presumably have acceptable insurance in Spain (or Germany or France or wherever) in order to qualify for a long-term visa from those countries. 

On another note, I too worry a bit about finding friends. I will be spending the month of March in Valencia, getting to know the city and maybe a bit more of Spain and figuring out how I like being an expat. I don't, of course, expect to make friends in that short time, but I do hope to get some idea of how easy or difficult it might be to do so, when (and if) I come back full-time.


----------



## kalohi

LILTRBO said:


> My main concerns at this point are:
> 
> 1. How to properly handle my finances (my main income will be working for an American company, but my husband and I are in social media and internet-based marketing, so we can be anywhere). I'm worried especially about getting double taxed, as my income will not be much to start with, yikes!


It can get tricky, but in a nutshell, there is a tax agreement between the US and Spain so you won't be double taxed. But you will have to file a tax return in both countries and pay the difference between the higher and the lower return. 



LILTRBO said:


> 2. How to go about getting health insurance. I'm not about to pay for this awful American healthcare, and if I'm still a citizen its my understanding that not only will I be taxed here, but I will be required to have healthcare or pay the fine.


The Affordable Care Act stipulates that bona fide non-residents of the United States aren't required to hold US health insurance. How you are to prove that you are a bona fide non-resident remains to be seen. I was just at the US consulate in Seville this morning and asked this question, and they couldn't tell me. 



LILTRBO said:


> 3. If it will be difficult to make quality friends.  My husband assures me it won't be difficult. It was VERY difficult in Las Vegas for the first few years, but that's mostly because I don't live the same way most people my age do here; Vegas is weird. I just made some amazing friends this last year, and it will be hard to leave them behind.


This, of course, depends on you. Be open minded, get out there, and try to find your niche. And yes, it's always hard to leave friends behind. :-( 



LILTRBO said:


> 4. How good the internet/wifi is there. Due to my job, I absolutely have to have a strong, consistent connection, at all times.


This might be your biggest hurdle. Unless you live in a major city you won't find FIOS, and even then you won't find it in all neighborhoods. I live only 6 km outside of Seville and I feel very lucky to be able to contract "up to" 20 Mb of DSL. What I actually get is about 5 Mb on average with speeds swinging up and down between about 8 Mb and 2 Mb depending on the time of day. We inexplicably have no internet at all for several hours about once a month. That's about as good as it gets around here. 

Good luck with your move!


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## LILTRBO

Thank you all, SO much for your information. I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge!

I was checking out Sanitas last night for healthcare, and I was blown away at how reasonable it was for the coverage. 

In regards to internet/wifi situation, can it be improved by having a phone plan with cellular data? Here in the US I can practically work from my phone nearly all the time. I can also use my phone's data as wifi for my laptop easily. As long as I have some sort of backup to check emails during those blackouts I should be ok.

I'm nervous about this because when I FaceTime with my mother in law in Benalmadena, it seems her internet connection is not that great, but I don't know if it's something that can be improved with a better modem and router, or if that's just how it is.


----------



## LILTRBO

Melissa58275 said:


> LILTRBO;6067433
> 2. How to go about getting health insurance. I'm not about to pay for this awful American healthcare said:
> 
> 
> 
> LILTRBO: Just a clarification for you here: If you become a bona fide expat, living outside of the US for 330 days out of the year, you will not be subject to pay the fine or be covered by US health insurance. The law says you are considered to be compliant. The problem arises for those of us who wish to spend more than the allowed 90-day gap without insurance (and without paying fine) out of the country but will not meet the qualifications of a bona fide expatriate. We must have US health insurance (or pay the tax penalty) AND presumably have acceptable insurance in Spain (or Germany or France or wherever) in order to qualify for a long-term visa from those countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hm, ok. So lets say if I spent more than 35 days in the US over the course of the year, I would not qualify for insurance in Spain? My husband will be going over first, and I will be handling the rental or sale of our house in the US and I don't know how long it will take. I will also be spending some time in the US during August and February for work, probably 30 days in total in just those trips alone.
Click to expand...


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## kalohi

LILTRBO said:


> Thank you all, SO much for your information. I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge!
> 
> I was checking out Sanitas last night for healthcare, and I was blown away at how reasonable it was for the coverage.
> 
> In regards to internet/wifi situation, can it be improved by having a phone plan with cellular data? Here in the US I can practically work from my phone nearly all the time. I can also use my phone's data as wifi for my laptop easily. As long as I have some sort of backup to check emails during those blackouts I should be ok.
> 
> I'm nervous about this because when I FaceTime with my mother in law in Benalmadena, it seems her internet connection is not that great, but I don't know if it's something that can be improved with a better modem and router, or if that's just how it is.


The problem with using mobile data is that 4g speed is not widely available. Plus it is much more expensive than in the States. If it is your backup plan then you should be ok, but I wouldn't want to count on it all the for work.


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## Melissa58275

Liltrbo. No it doesn't have anything to do with qualifying for insurance on Spain. I believe that you will have to show that you have insurance in Spain to get a visa to live there. That's just a matter of paying for private insurance. But you may have to be insured in the US as well. As I and someone else said of you are a bona fide expat then you are off the hook for US insurance under the affordable care act. But if you don't qualify as a bona fide expat you will have to buy it whether or not you are in the U.S. For most of the year or not. You will owe the tax penalty otherwise. So what qualifies you as a bona fide expat? Either you love outside the U.S. For 330 days of the year. Or you meet a complicated other standard which involves an assessment of your business, family, residential and other connections. I don't have access to that language right now but will find it and post it


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## mickbcn

No, is carrer =STREET:


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## Gupi

It's good to see some other Americans on here.

This IRS web site describes how your residency is defined. It will also tell you about the foreign earned income exclusion, which can dramatically reduce the income taxes you pay. The physical presence test is simplest -- you must be outside the US for 330 days in a 12-month period. This isn't a calendar year, so you can start the 330 days in any month.

I have an online business and have spent two months in Madrid, where I've had no trouble with the internet. I just tested the connection to a server in Washington state and I'm getting 10 mbps.

I also think the health insurance in Spain is a great deal compared to what we're used to paying the US. One complication: For the insurance I wanted (DKV) and probably for any company that uses reimbursements, I had to have a Spanish bank account. When I tried to get an account, many banks said I needed to be a resident. I ended up getting a fee-laden account at Sabadell because it was the only bank I visited that was willing to give me an account without a residency card, just my passport. 

I left the US before the health insurance law was passed, so I don't know how that might affect things for you. I do know that the health insurance offered here (and in Mexico, where I used to live) is light years more extensive than what I had in the US and significantly cheaper. 

Regarding friends: If you're considering a biggish city, check meetup.com. I'm only familiar with Madrid, but there are several groups here. In Barcelona, eatwith.com is worth checking out. If you speak Spanish, you might also look for sites like Amigos Madrid. Hiking groups, dance classes, and other regularly scheduled events are a great way to meet people.

I speak (Mexican) Spanish, and so far it has been relatively easy for me to meet interesting people. Even strangers in parks can be willing to chat, and that's how I got my first friend here. The main challenge is that social circles can seem more closed -- Spaniards hang out with their families and the friends they've had all their lives, but there are still people interested in meeting new friends; you just have to find them.


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## Frank bcn

American here, living in Barcelona. I am from California. Married a local woman and now have residency. I agree with many of the messages of advice here. It's a huge step. I would add that make sure you try to adjust to the lifestyle here. 

I am getting used to all the local social codes. Some things I miss about back home. I miss the large portions of food and drinks. I miss driving my car. I miss the open spaces and I miss seeing houses with front yards. Living in Barcelona forces me to give up a lot of that personal space that I was used to. 

Sure, I can see many of this stuff outside the city. I guess the big change for me was moving from the suburbs to inside a metropolitan city. I love it here, however. Even though I miss my car, I enjoy walking around the city. The metro system is reliable. 

If I had known what I know now, I would have brought over more Levi's jeans. They're about 100 euro over here. I would also brought over more of my New Balance shoes. Who knew that NBs would be so popular (at least with the young hipsters).

Sometimes, I long to be back in California driving my car along the Pacific Coast Highway with the windows down and catch the ocean breeze of the Pacific while listening to my tunes, eating my carne asada burrito or burgers from In-n-Out. But, that's what summer trips back home are for 

Oh yeah, and I am still getting used to saying good-bye to strangers if we share an elevator. What is that? Just because we shared space for a couple of seconds, now you want to be Facebook friends and meet once a month to reminisce about the good times we had between floors 2 and 5? Jk of course. People are more considerate over here, for sure.


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## LILTRBO

On one hand I find the strangers on the elevator thing so charming, but on the other hand its also slightly terrifying. 

As an American, I've been taught that typical paranoia, and that people are only nice if they want something from you (horrible, I know, but true in some places, especially Las Vegas). I have always enjoyed my personal space, and sometimes I'm alarmed at the kissing each cheek thing. It's another thing I'll need to get used to, for sure. It's such a warm and friendly thing, which I've always felt like I am, but I'm also very awkward, haha. I look forward to the experience outside of my comfort zone!


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## 213979

Frank bcn said:


> Oh yeah, and I am still getting used to saying good-bye to strangers if we share an elevator. What is that? Just because we shared space for a couple of seconds, now you want to be Facebook friends and meet once a month to reminisce about the good times we had between floors 2 and 5? Jk of course. People are more considerate over here, for sure.


I made fun of my husband for greeting and saying goodbye to folks in the elevator in New York. It made them uncomfortable!


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## Frank bcn

elenetxu said:


> I made fun of my husband for greeting and saying goodbye to folks in the elevator in New York. It made them uncomfortable!


I can imagine a New Yorker's reaction to that. Haha! Would have loved to have seen that.


----------



## TheRealJessica

Hello! 

American here, from Chicago but living in Gijón, Asturias on a tourist visa until I can get my work visa. I'll be going back at the end of May to get it, ::crosses fingers:: giving potential employers time to get me that invaluable contracted work permit (super hard as a teacher…!). 

Like I said in my introduction in La Tasca, I've been an observer for some time before joining in January. I know some time has passed since this thread has been active but I still wanted to chime in


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## tobyo

Turco1 said:


> Hi Tobyo,
> 
> Just to clarify, you were in America and landed a job with an international company that has an office in Spain?


Hi Turco1 - yes, that was correct. However, I'm no longer employed with that company so transferring to Spain isn't an option any longer. sorry it took me so long to reply. I'm not terribly active here but do pop in every few months or so, like now


----------



## Tall Traveler

Melissa58275 said:


> Liltrbo. No it doesn't have anything to do with qualifying for insurance on Spain. I believe that you will have to show that you have insurance in Spain to get a visa to live there. That's just a matter of paying for private insurance. But you may have to be insured in the US as well. As I and someone else said of you are a bona fide expat then you are off the hook for US insurance under the affordable care act. But if you don't qualify as a bona fide expat you will have to buy it whether or not you are in the U.S. For most of the year or not. You will owe the tax penalty otherwise. So what qualifies you as a bona fide expat? Either you love outside the U.S. For 330 days of the year. Or you meet a complicated other standard which involves an assessment of your business, family, residential and other connections. I don't have access to that language right now but will find it and post it


I think Bona Fide Residence test deals with the length you are in another country (majority of the year), your intentions and purpose...confirm with your tax expert. You can then be exempted from the US Unaffordable Health Plan requirements and fines. 

I've thought about making my Spanish duplex my residence (maybe staying 8 months there and 4 months in the USA) to qualify for the Bona Fide Residence test and use Spanish insurance at a cost savings of over $1000/mo over the super expensive and I don't think necessarily US plan. We (wife and I) would also likely save another couple thousand per month to live in Marbella versus staying in my house near Seattle. 

The one problem with this plan is what to do with the 4 months I would be in USA...guess I need ot see if they will cover me while in USA as well.


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## raisondart

My husband and I are both American and live near Girona.


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## paperdetective

I'm a multilingual US citizen with dual nationality (also have European passport), who recently moved to Galicia and went through the motions here. Working now on getting my Russian girlfriend here.

If you have any questions just shoot.

Four simple suggestions before you move here:
1) Learn Spanish and the culture as well,
2) Prepare as much as possible the paper work abroad, not here.
3) Be prepared to wait for weeks before you really exist here, as you can only open a bank account here by being present and providing lots of papers here to make it happen. Make sure you know ahead of time what those papers are and that you have them. Without them nothing much happens here. You need a local bank account.
4) Unless you are in the few major cities, count on needing a car. 

Pete


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## toddamparo

Hi there! American here married to a Spanish woman. What did you mean about the "reunification de familia" as a means to coming to Spain? Thanks


----------



## toddamparo

mysticsmick said:


> If I can be of any assistance just let me know. There are a couple of us "americans" who frequent this forum. Although my way of becoming a resident was by marriage to a spanish citizen and I came to reside here via the "reuniting a family" process, there might be other things that interest you that we could talk about.


Hi there! American here married to a Spanish woman. What did you mean about the "reunification de familia" as to coming to Spain? Thanks


----------



## baldilocks

toddamparo said:


> Hi there! American here married to a Spanish woman. What did you mean about the "reunification de familia" as to coming to Spain? Thanks


Regrettably "Mystic Mick" is no longer on the forum.


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## toddamparo

Oops...ok. does anyone know what he was referring to?


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## paperdetective

I am an American (also a EU citizen so dual) and I live in Spain>
This may be what you are looking for:
http://extranjeros.empleo.gob.es/es...chivos/triptico_reagrupacion_familiar_eng.pdf
If not, just ask.

Peter


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## baldilocks

toddamparo said:


> Oops...ok. does anyone know what he was referring to?


You have a Private Message


----------



## paperdetective

baldilocks said:


> You have a Private Message


Did you see my link in my posting. That may explain it.


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## baldilocks

paperdetective said:


> Did you see my link in my posting. That may explain it.


You may well be right but, since it doesn't apply to me I haven't been through the process so I don't know.


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## paperdetective

baldilocks said:


> You may well be right but, since it doesn't apply to me I haven't been through the process so I don't know.


Right we lack context to know what he meant.


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## baldilocks

paperdetective said:


> Right we lack context to know what he meant.


Working on it


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## toddamparo

It appears that that document was referring to working in spain. I have no aspiration to work aside from perhaps teaching english a little. I was working with the Inlingua language school before.


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## toddamparo

Frank bcn said:


> I can imagine a New Yorker's reaction to that. Haha! Would have loved to have seen that.


Ha ha ! That got me about all the different interesting and often challenging aspects of the "beautiful chaos" of Spanish culture. I'll start with "viva yo"! Amazing how that plays itself out in daily spanish life! Also, the idea of "un enchufe" to get things done.....amazing how true it is. It's my Spanish wife who is most frustrated when going back to visit. However when I go I just shrug my shoulders and say, "well this is spain sweetie"


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## paperdetective

toddamparo said:


> Ha ha ! That got me about all the different interesting and often challenging aspects of the "beautiful chaos" of Spanish culture. I'll start with "viva yo"! Amazing how that plays itself out in daily spanish life! Also, the idea of "un enchufe" to get things done.....amazing how true it is. It's my Spanish wife who is most frustrated when going back to visit. However when I go I just shrug my shoulders and say, "well this is spain sweetie"


Accurate description of Spain and practical attitude. ;-)


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## toddamparo

paperdetective said:


> Accurate description of Spain and practical attitude. ;-)


Oh yes! And of of course add to that the experience of driving in Spain! All those roundabouts and all of the semi aggressive driving that you have to develop in order to survive on the streets while driving in Spain. I'm always amazed that there aren't more accidents! I don't know whether it's the fact of being an American that allows me to go with the flow so to speak but my wife is entirely frustrated often with the lack of efficiencies in Spanish life! We live in the Pacific Northwest surrounded by wonderful greenery and mild temperatures. She is from Valencia and I don't think I will ever get her back to living in a high-rise flat in the midst of the dusty noisy city!.


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## paperdetective

toddamparo said:


> Oh yes! And of of course add to that the experience of driving in Spain! All those roundabouts and all of the semi aggressive driving that you have to develop in order to survive on the streets while driving in Spain. I'm always amazed that there aren't more accidents! I don't know whether it's the fact of being an American that allows me to go with the flow so to speak but my wife is entirely frustrated often with the lack of efficiencies in Spanish life! We live in the Pacific Northwest surrounded by wonderful greenery and mild temperatures. She is from Valencia and I don't think I will ever get her back to living in a high-rise flat in the midst of the dusty noisy city!.


She may one day miss the inefficient chaotic almost anarchistic Spain as opposed to overregulated efficient America that eventually will feel like a straightjacket,


----------



## toddamparo

paperdetective said:


> She may one day miss the inefficient chaotic almost anarchistic Spain as opposed to overregulated efficient America that eventually will feel like a straightjacket,


Well perhaps. But after 39 yrs married she hasn't mentioned anything yet!


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## toddamparo

elenetxu said:


> I made fun of my husband for greeting and saying goodbye to folks in the elevator in New York. It made them uncomfortable!


Oh yes and how about the custom of always offering something of the food if you happen to be sitting and eating next to someone who doesn't have something to eat!


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