# Health Care



## DH1875 (Feb 21, 2009)

Hi all, sorry to be a pest Again but looking for some advice regarding health care.

As we are coming over for a 6 month trial period please could you all let us know the best route to go down.

Would the EHIC be enough to cover us for emergencies? 
I believe if we apply for residency we can switch over to the Spanish health service for a year, the thing is we aren't sure about applying for it until we know we are staying or not.

If I am working in Spain would my contributions in to the Spanish system be enough to cover me, my wife and the children or does my wife have to work as well.

How do urgencies work? Can anyone use them?

Thanks.


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

DH1875 said:


> Hi all, sorry to be a pest Again but looking for some advice regarding health care.
> 
> As we are coming over for a 6 month trial period please could you all let us know the best route to go down.
> 
> ...


Hi,

Your post actually requires more clarity. 

For a chance of answering correctly, you need to specify several things for us.

Your work - contracted in Spain to a Spanish company? Working in Spain for an English company? Working in Spain self-employed?

Your six months stated - is that the term you will be working in Spain for said company or self-employed, or is it a term you have in your heads, but to all officialdom, you are here as long as you are here?

If you're coming to work as a permanent employee for a Spanish company, then empadronamiento, certificates of residency and alta in the Seguridad Social will shortly follow and ALL your family will be covered with your contributions via your employer.

Same for you doing an "autonomo" role as you will be paying the autonomo fees and the SS contributions.

If you're coming to work for six months for a UK company, I think the NHS will cover your costs and you will declare in the UK foreign earnings etc. This area is far better covered by the HR Dept of said UK company with DHS.

As you can see, your position in this move needs clarification as it impacts all manner of things to enable a reply to your questions.

If you're coming over for a look-see, the EHIC (E111 of old???) covers what would in fact be long holidays, even if you do unofficial odd jobs here and there. But the 183 days MAX before registering is supposed to be respected. Unfortunately, this can be a bit of a pay and reclaim health cover set up and not really for normal health care cover. 

Also, on the good side, any emergencies as you mention should be treated within the EC regardless of your current status within any particular country within the EU. Basically, if you turn up in hospital with appendicitis about to burst, for example, you will be treated under emergency cover in any case.

Regards,
Tallulah.


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## DH1875 (Feb 21, 2009)

Hi Tallulah,

Thank you so much for your reply.
We are coming over for a look see for 6 months. Thought that I had a job lined up but unfortunately it has fallen through. My wife and I have other interviews lined up for when we are over. These are with Spanish companies contracted in Spain. If we are lucky enough to get them then we will apply for residency. If only one of us gets a job, will we all be covered by their contributions? if so then we would apply for residency.

The problem is what we should do if neither of us find work. As Jo has said so many times "don't burn bridges?". We have enough in the bank to live comfortably for 6 months and pay for doctors if need be. As we will be able to use urginces in an emergency do you think we should wait the 183 days or not?

Thanks Again,

DH.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

DH1875 said:


> Hi Tallulah,
> 
> Thank you so much for your reply.
> We are coming over for a look see for 6 months. Thought that I had a job lined up but unfortunately it has fallen through. My wife and I have other interviews lined up for when we are over. These are with Spanish companies contracted in Spain. If we are lucky enough to get them then we will apply for residency. If only one of us gets a job, will we all be covered by their contributions? if so then we would apply for residency.
> ...


Tallulah will know the answer, but you can use your E111 for emergencies if you have a crisis if you're only here for a "long term" holiday

Jo xxx


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

DH1875 said:


> Hi Tallulah,
> 
> Thank you so much for your reply.
> We are coming over for a look see for 6 months. Thought that I had a job lined up but unfortunately it has fallen through. My wife and I have other interviews lined up for when we are over. These are with Spanish companies contracted in Spain. If we are lucky enough to get them then we will apply for residency. If only one of us gets a job, will we all be covered by their contributions? if so then we would apply for residency.
> ...


Don't think about it like that then. Treat it as a long holiday - you'll be covered under the E111. It's then on day 184 that you'll have to decide and become resident or not. As for cover if you do get work, either of you will cover the whole family. One assumes that residency option will become automatic when you're employed - else it brings all sorts of problems re. tax, etc. 

If and when you do get work, don't be tempted to go for the payment into a UK bank account or somesuch. The trick to a peaceful life is to keep it simple and let's face it, unless there's thousands or indeed, tens of thousands, at play, it really isn't worth the slightest risk even if it's deemed (legal). I say this, becuase some people have posted in the past here that they're working, but paying into accounts outside of Spain, do they need to declare, etc etc. The company you work for should NOT be entertaining this in any case, but in case they do, you shouldn't, for the sake of a peaceful life.

Treat it as you would in the UK logic wise. If you're working for Scottish Power, for example, you wouldn't ask them to pay your monthly salary into an account in some other EU country... would you??

Tallulah.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Tallulah said:


> Don't think about it like that then. Treat it as a long holiday - you'll be covered under the E111. It's then on day 184 that you'll have to decide and become resident or not. As for cover if you do get work, either of you will cover the whole family. One assumes that residency option will become automatic when you're employed - else it brings all sorts of problems re. tax, etc.
> 
> If and when you do get work, don't be tempted to go for the payment into a UK bank account or somesuch. The trick to a peaceful life is to keep it simple and let's face it, unless there's thousands or indeed, tens of thousands, at play, it really isn't worth the slightest risk even if it's deemed (legal). I say this, becuase some people have posted in the past here that they're working, but paying into accounts outside of Spain, do they need to declare, etc etc. The company you work for should NOT be entertaining this in any case, but in case they do, you shouldn't, for the sake of a peaceful life.
> 
> ...


Tallulah, you blow me away with your wise words LOL


Jo xxx


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

jojo said:


> Tallulah, you blow me away with your wise words LOL
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


Make the most of it while it lasts!!
xxx


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## DH1875 (Feb 21, 2009)

Hi Tallulah,

The plan is to do everything correct and above board. If one or both of us find work then residency isn't going to be a problem. We are going to open a Spanish bank account when we come over to help pay the bills, rent etc.. so we can get any wages paid into that. 
I take it that because we are on "holiday" for 183 days we would not have to declare any income we would have from the UK.

Thanks.


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

DH1875 said:


> Hi Tallulah,
> 
> The plan is to do everything correct and above board. If one or both of us find work then residency isn't going to be a problem. We are going to open a Spanish bank account when we come over to help pay the bills, rent etc.. so we can get any wages paid into that.
> I take it that because we are on "holiday" for 183 days we would not have to declare any income we would have from the UK.
> ...


As you're on a long holiday, until you're registered here you don't have to declare in Spain until a full fiscal year has passed. Obviously UK responsibilities during that 183 days still apply. 

Tallulah.

ps - the above is not relevant if you earn the money in Spain. At this point, you should be declared "declarado en alta" which in effect means you're in the Spanish system.


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

DH1875 said:


> Hi Tallulah,
> 
> The plan is to do everything correct and above board. If one or both of us find work then residency isn't going to be a problem. We are going to open a Spanish bank account when we come over to help pay the bills, rent etc.. so we can get any wages paid into that.
> I take it that because we are on "holiday" for 183 days we would not have to declare any income we would have from the UK.
> ...


Hi DH1875, glad to hear you plan to do everything by the book. You know it makes sense 

Just an addition to Tallulah's very valid points. Be aware that the Tax year in Spain goes from Jan 1st to Dec 31st inclusive. Therefore, if you arrive on July 2009 - for example, you go through that year. Then you go through 2010 - still no declaring. Then, by 30th June 2011, you have to declare earnings for Jan to Dec 2010. So, the actual act of declaration is almost 2 years away from the July in which you arrive. Lots of time to save the 40-60€ up for a Gestoria or Assesoria to do the first one for you.

So, the Tax Declaration break can be almost two years after you arrive. Good eh?!

Obviously only one and a half years if you arrive in, say, Dec of 2009.

Best of luck.

Xose


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

This might help.

online travel insurance


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## DH1875 (Feb 21, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your words of wisdom.
One of our reasons for coming over is to have a less stressful more peaceful way of life so the idea of messing around either tax system does not really appeal.

Hi Xose, that does sound good but if we do stay and take up residency will we have to worry about the tax man if tax is automatically deducted from our wages.

Thanks for the link crookesey, we were not planning on taking out any health insurance as we are all young and healthy and have our EHIC cards for emergencies. Was told that if one of the kids have to go to the docs with earache or something it is around €50 which seems fair enough. 
Are we being daft? Do you all think we should take out insurance for the 6 months or should we wait and see if we get into the system.

Thanks,

DH.


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

DH1875 said:


> Thanks everyone for your words of wisdom.
> One of our reasons for coming over is to have a less stressful more peaceful way of life so the idea of messing around either tax system does not really appeal.
> 
> Hi Xose, that does sound good but if we do stay and take up residency will we have to worry about the tax man if tax is automatically deducted from our wages.
> ...


OK. You're on holiday for six months - up to you if you take additional holiday cover in the UK, as I only know about taking a couple of weeks, I would imagine 6 months would be quite expensive. Especially as the EHIC covers you for any unforseens and you can simply claim that money back should you be asked to pay. Unfortunately, in the unlikely event that something really serious were to happen that didn't require immediate surgery, you might be looking at going back for it (from your "holiday") rather than just going into a hospital as though you were in the system here.

Once you're in employment, you are fully covered. All of you. Your child will be appointed a paediatrician to age 14 or 16, I believe. We have taken our's with both aches and pains and for periodic check ups as they have here for children. I'm sorry, but I have no idea where this 50 euros comes from. We have never had to pay this. 

The above allows you to check it and see and if you're employed, end of issues and if you're not employed, you go back. The, shall we say, more normal emigration route is where one leaves the UK, fills in their P85, and gets their tax rebate for that year, etc, brings with them their E301 (NHS contribution records) and their E106. This latter document covers you for up to two years (actually we got 2 years/4 months cover) of full Spanish medical cover and the bill, should anything occur, is picked up by the NHS. What has never been discussed to my knowledge or remembrance in this forum, is what happens when having done the emigration, you actually then leave Spain and return to the UK. One assumes as a British Citizen you don't encounter any issues regarding going back and re-registering on the health system, etc. Unfortunately, I think that people erroneously think of this as burning all UK bridges, selling homes, etc etc. Which is unfortunate, becuase leaving to live in another country doesn't mean one has to sell all UK assets prior to leaving, but does mean that by not doing so, they do not get the benefits of the E106 as they have not officially left the UK.

Regarding your tax question, we need to keep it simple and assume you're working for company X, earning 22k euros per year or less, have no other employment or salary from any other source and have no complicated foreign investments "like a house rented in the UK", for example. In this case, you are like the millions of people in Spain and indeed in the UK where earning below a certain amount means you do not have to do a tax return. Apologies for equating it to the UK on the tax issue, but I know this as my husband had to do a tax return every year, even though employed persons in the UK are on PAYE. If they earn over a certain amount, they have to do one regardless. Therefore, this is in fact, a very similar system in Spain where the vast majority do not do yearly tax returns. It's worth noting, however, that unlike the UK, an awful lot of people who don't have to do this submit one in any case, as returnables in Spain are much more frequent than in the UK, given the system of "withholding a fixed percentage", so that people with kids, mortgages, mortgage account bank charges, often do a return to reclaim monies even though they're well below the 22k euros threshold.

Hope this helps.

Tallulah.


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

The wife and I have annual travel insurance at a cost of under £100.00 for the pair of us, and we are in our 60's. Ours has a 60 days stay clause but for a little more cost 6 months stay cover is available.


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## DH1875 (Feb 21, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> OK. You're on holiday for six months - up to you if you take additional holiday cover in the UK, as I only know about taking a couple of weeks, I would imagine 6 months would be quite expensive. Especially as the EHIC covers you for any unforseens and you can simply claim that money back should you be asked to pay. Unfortunately, in the unlikely event that something really serious were to happen that didn't require immediate surgery, you might be looking at going back for it (from your "holiday") rather than just going into a hospital as though you were in the system here.
> 
> Once you're in employment, you are fully covered. All of you. Your child will be appointed a paediatrician to age 14 or 16, I believe. We have taken our's with both aches and pains and for periodic check ups as they have here for children. I'm sorry, but I have no idea where this 50 euros comes from. We have never had to pay this.
> 
> ...



Thanks Tallulah,

You really are a star. That has really helped. Dont think we have to worry as I don't think either of us will be making over €22K in Spain. The wages seem to be a lot lower than in the UK but I suppose you have to compromise some where.

The €50 thing is how much we have been told to expect to pay to the the local doctor if we are not entitled to Spanish health care.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

DH1875 said:


> Thanks Tallulah,
> 
> You really are a star. That has really helped. Dont think we have to worry as I don't think either of us will be making over €22K in Spain. The wages seem to be a lot lower than in the UK but I suppose you have to compromise some where.
> 
> The €50 thing is how much we have been told to expect to pay to the the local doctor if we are not entitled to Spanish health care.


€50 - €60 is what I paid before we were sorted. I had a complete full medical with all blood tests, body scans etc and that was just over €300


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