# Solar Energy



## smudges (May 2, 2013)

I am thinking of installing solar power in any property I eventually buy. This would be the primary source of power, using the mains supply as back up. There would no doubt be excess generated. Is this all feasible and does PT have the scheme to sell power into the grid? Any info on this greatly appreciated. Also, a ballpark idea of costs - I don't think I need batteries - or do I??!! TIA


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

Hi Smudges

Why not try a search in the facility provided. Just above the thread there is a "button" SEARCH . Click on it and go to ADVANCED. Enter the subject you wish to read abot and choose the country PORTUGAL.

You will be amazed at the info that pops up


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

smudges said:


> I am thinking of installing solar power in any property I eventually buy. This would be the primary source of power, using the mains supply as back up. There would no doubt be excess generated. Is this all feasible and does PT have the scheme to sell power into the grid? Any info on this greatly appreciated. Also, a ballpark idea of costs - I don't think I need batteries - or do I??!! TIA


Yes you need batteries, to sell back you can only install approved systems installed by approved company, payments must be declared on yearly IRS and +5000€ are taxable, tax break for purchasing approved system max value 30% 777€.

System price I think your looking around 15-18000€ to qualify for payback scheme, this is EDP Universal details, you need to enable translator to view
Microprodução

A large investment for little return, on my current usage and cost that's 17 years of electricity without maintainance costed in

You'd save more money by installing Solar for hot water and bought wisely evacuated tubes cheaper in UK than here


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## smudges (May 2, 2013)

Thank you to both of you. I'm looking at this as a small income earner plus I have an eye to future soaring energy costs.
If anyone has any suggestions to websites for solar power, solar hot water and heating syatems (radiators) run from a log burner or any other system (not gas or oil and I believe solar to be impractical) that is viable. I would appreciate suggestions....I don't know quite where to start!!


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

As far as heating & hot water goes, probably the most cost efficient running costs are with a wood pellet burning boiler etc. 

Boilers vary a lot on price and quality but for what it's worth, mine costs €3 per 16 hour burn and (currently) heats 8 radiators and that will go up to about 15 radiators when our build is finished.... running costs will obviously increase when we turn the extra radiators on but my guess is it'll only go up to something in the region of €5 per 16 hour burn. 

I should add that running costs will obviously vary depending on how well the house is insulated & quaity of double glazing etc.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Forget electricity as a small income earner it's just not viable, it's a balance between cost of installation v possible income and figures just don't stack up, plenty of info here but whatever you decide on think of a total integrated system or planned in such a way as to make so, rather than piecemeal approach.

You need to have some idea of the m2/m3 involved and construction of property, as an example theres a new stand alone pellet fire that would do rads or underfloor & H/W but only for a max m2, TM's uses a stand alone unit that will power far greater areas


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## smudges (May 2, 2013)

Mucho pondering, I think, coming on!!


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## BodgieMcBodge (Mar 8, 2013)

smudges said:


> I am thinking of installing solar power in any property I eventually buy. This would be the primary source of power, using the mains supply as back up. There would no doubt be excess generated. Is this all feasible and does PT have the scheme to sell power into the grid? Any info on this greatly appreciated. Also, a ballpark idea of costs - I don't think I need batteries - or do I??!! TIA




You need a lot more information before considering any solar PV (or other) energy system. Start with... 

How much solar energy is available per square meter of your proposed installation site? this varies depending on time of day and time of year. There are various websites, which I am not permitted to mention, which let you put in co-ordinates/direction/angle to estimate this.

and how big is your proposed installation site? How much electrical energy will you consume ? PV Panels are of the order 15% efficient but degrade with time so what you produce on day one will not be the same 5 years later), this basic information will let you calculate the total panel area you will need and give you an idea if you are wasting your time or not then you can get prices based on what you need. There is a "holy grail" point which panel manufactures and aiming for re: price (in US dollars) per kW which revolves around the conversion efficiency and hardware production costs so the longer you wait the cheaper per kW the equipment becomes. Beware of buying a second hand system which may look cheap compared to a current system as their efficiency will be lower.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

canoeman said:


> Forget electricity as a small income earner it's just not viable, it's a balance between cost of installation v possible income and figures just don't stack up, plenty of info here but whatever you decide on think of a total integrated system or planned in such a way as to make so, rather than piecemeal approach.
> 
> You need to have some idea of the m2/m3 involved and construction of property, as an example theres a new stand alone pellet fire that would do rads or underfloor & H/W but only for a max m2, *TM's uses a stand alone unit that will power far greater areas*


I do indeed & the new barn has very high ceilings but I would assume a smaller/lower output boiler would have lower running costs.

I've gotta say, I love the wood pellet concept. I can buy the pellets in a variety of places including supermarkets & it takes about 10 minutes every 3 or 4 days to clean the boiler........ Other than that, there's nothing I need to do to it.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

So do I like pellets and would whip out our wood fired back boiler in a flash if I coulde find a pellet stove to replace, but for our output not possible, any boiler of any fuel source needs to be of correct output for use and area as BodgieMcBodge is also pointing out, don't think anything stopping you recommending a site to help estimate useage, it's more not advertising yourself if I've got it right


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I'm surprised you can't find a unit of a suitable output. I found everything from about 5 kw to hundreds of kw & manufacturers from all over Europe & beyond & even Amazon have a good selection of reasonably priced (Polish) units.

As for working out what output is needed, I'd say it's better to take your measurements & then ask the suppliers and/or installers what they recommend. 

We asked several & all came up with a similar figure of about 24/25 kw & we played it slightly safe by opting for a 30 kw (PT made) unit.

Incidentally, when I looked at the Polish made units on Amazon, their delivery charge was just UKP12!


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## BodgieMcBodge (Mar 8, 2013)

canoeman said:


> So do I like pellets and would whip out our wood fired back boiler in a flash if I coulde find a pellet stove to replace, but for our output not possible, any boiler of any fuel source needs to be of correct output for use and area as BodgieMcBodge is also pointing out, don't think anything stopping you recommending a site to help estimate useage, it's more not advertising yourself if I've got it right


Not according to the Mods using Rule 10.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Units not a problem but we don't wan't a out house type boiler in the lounge what I can't find is a pellet fire of sufficient output to replace back boiler in lounge and do C/H-H/W, we already have a converted diesel to pellet boiler in basement

think Rule 10 is a little more flexible than that, I would have thought the information you wanted to post would have been in explanation of working out sums


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Have you looked on Amazon.co.uk


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Nope far better and cheaper suppliers, especially now free delivery not an option, the problem is the aesthetics, none of the pellet combi fires have sufficient output for our property m2/m3, we might just replace back boiler with a pellet fire but as everything is linked seems a shame to take out a major heat source component which the only drawback is logs, delivery, stacking bringing in, cleaning which has reminded me why we want to replace another search due


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## smudges (May 2, 2013)

I hope you find one and let us know!!


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## MrBife (Jul 26, 2009)

The feed in tarrif (what EDP are prepared to buy your electricity for) has dropped significantly over the years and is so low now that the payback time just doesn't really justify the investment bearing in mind if you want to sell then the installation has to be done by an approved (expensive) installer etc

However the cost of the equipment itself has also come down so significantly that it is becoming worth doing a DIY installation and just using the power yourself assuming you are able to use the power (permanent resident through the summer, maybe working from home and needing air conditioning etc). Its the batteries that cost a lot and if you use the power during the day you don't need them

With costs dropping closer to 50cents per watt for panels (if you shop around) its starting to look interesting enough to put in 5kw worth if you have the roof or garden space. Spare power could also be used to heat a big well insulated storage tank of water (underfloor heating for colder nights).

One thing that is for sure is that EDP won't be putting the cost of power down any time soon


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Very true, we found when looking at this early in year that same/similar equipment was cheaper in Spain and UK and that OLX was a fairly good source in Portugal http://www.olx.pt/ ebay type site and also Spains Ebay site Electronics, Cars, Fashion, Collectibles, Coupons and More | eBay


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I looked at it about a year ago because we have plenty of roof space & a couple of fields but the payback wasn't anywhere near worth the expenditure.


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## smudges (May 2, 2013)

MrBife said:


> The feed in tarrif (what EDP are prepared to buy your electricity for) has dropped significantly over the years and is so low now that the payback time just doesn't really justify the investment bearing in mind if you want to sell then the installation has to be done by an approved (expensive) installer etc
> 
> However the cost of the equipment itself has also come down so significantly that it is becoming worth doing a DIY installation and just using the power yourself assuming you are able to use the power (permanent resident through the summer, maybe working from home and needing air conditioning etc). Its the batteries that cost a lot and if you use the power during the day you don't need them
> 
> ...


Yes, this is a good option, I think. I am certain that power costs will only keep spiralling up, so having your own supply with EDF if necessary will probably make good sense in the coming years. If it is impractical to sell it back, then that's fine. I was primarily looking at a supply for myself with a bit of pocket money coming in from the extra. 
Many thanks again to all. BTW, is there a book I can get that anyone can recommend on installing your own system? Or, alternatively, are there people there who would be able to do it for me (probably the safer option!!!!!). TIA


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