# HIV Positive Tourist Thrown out of his Hotel



## Hudswell (May 14, 2010)

HIV-positive UK tourist told to leave hotel in Cyprus after management discovered his condition | Daily Mail Online

If this story is true then I find it almost unbelievable a so called civilised country can behave in this way....In some areas Cyprus is still very much a third world country I am afraid..


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## hiatusxenia (May 6, 2013)

Welcome to Cyprus 1515.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Hudswell said:


> HIV-positive UK tourist told to leave hotel in Cyprus after management discovered his condition | Daily Mail Online
> 
> If this story is true then I find it almost unbelievable a so called civilised country can behave in this way....In some areas Cyprus is still very much a third world country I am afraid..


This is a dreadful incident and was expressed as such by the authorities and others in the article and investigations are to be carried out.

It is clearly not a reflection of the attitude of Cyprus as a whole particularly when the Stella Michaelidou, the head of the board of the HIV/AIDS Support Centre, KYFA, a non-government organisation is quoted: "She said the incident was unprecedented in Cyprus. 'I've been working at KYFA as a volunteer since 1994 and this is the first time I've come across such a thing.'".

To suggest that "Cyprus" acted in this way when the problem is clearly due to 1 or 2 ignorant and prejudiced individuals is just as ignorant.

Some ex-pats really ought to think a little more before they voice their prejudices.

Pete


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## Hudswell (May 14, 2010)

I would suggest that if there is any prejudice being displayed here it is not by "some expats" but by the hoteliers and Medical personnel involved in this mans plight. I did state in my original post "If true" and I do suspect whilst the underlying story is truthful there may be a degree of sensationalism being whipped up, but that does not excuse the actions of a few that will inevitably reflect on those of the the many (take the case of Billy the Dog). Cyprus, who's lifeblood depends on the tourist industry cannot afford one case like this and yes it is shameful.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Hudswell said:


> I would suggest that if there is any prejudice being displayed here it is not by "some expats" but by the hoteliers and Medical personnel involved in this mans plight. I did state in my original post "If true" and I do suspect whilst the underlying story is truthful there may be a degree of sensationalism being whipped up, but that does not excuse the actions of a few that will inevitably reflect on those of the the many (take the case of Billy the Dog). Cyprus, who's lifeblood depends on the tourist industry cannot afford one case like this and yes it is shameful.


I have no doubt the story is true regardless of how it is reported as it has now appeared in the Daily Mail and the Cyprus Mail.

However the original post stated "I find it almost unbelievable a so called civilised country can behave in this way". My reaction was to point out that it is not the country behaving in this way. I remain critical of this post.

The second post is changing stance completely from this and and this is a good thing that justifies my comment indicating that it is best to think both before and after putting fingertips to keyboard.

Pete


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## debs21 (Mar 13, 2013)

The medical professionals concerned breached patient confidentiality, this is the main issue here and that should not have happened.


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## Hudswell (May 14, 2010)

Please remain as critical as you like, but I would suggest that whilst Cyprus is becoming more progressive in its attitudes there is still a significant number of its citizens that remain entrenched in the past, and this incident only serves to illustrate that. Rightly or wrongly HIV is associated strongly with the Gay community, which despite recent reporting, attitudes (including the Church) have changed little and this is reflected in its society as an whole. And trust me, unlike some, I always engage brain before letting loose my fingers on a keyboard....


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## debs21 (Mar 13, 2013)

Hudswell said:


> Please remain as critical as you like, but I would suggest that whilst Cyprus is becoming more progressive in its attitudes there is still a significant number of its citizens that remain entrenched in the past, and this incident only serves to illustrate that. Rightly or wrongly HIV is associated strongly with the Gay community, which despite recent reporting, attitudes (including the Church) have changed little and this is reflected in its society as an whole. And trust me, unlike some, I always engage brain before letting loose my fingers on a keyboard....


I am not being critical, stating a fact about confidentiality.


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## Hudswell (May 14, 2010)

Sorry debs your post got in before mine....it was a reply to Pete, and yes you are absolutely right, a totally unacceptable breach of patient confidentiality..which supports my point about attitudes in this country...when they thought it was...aceeptable that is.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

I think we all agree about this awful case and the failings that have occurred.

The important point to me regarding this thread is the use of the "they" generalisation. Because 1 person has acted incorrectly we read posts describing "they" and thus branding all Cypriots this way. This is exactly what the previous reply from Hudswell has done as did the original post.

If 1 attitude is wrong in Cyprus it does not make all attitudes wrong. Or let's think about it another way. If the rule is true for Cyprus it should be true for everywhere:

UK: Harold Shipman killed patients. Therefore they (doctors) all kill patients.
Germany: VW has cheated it's customers, therefore they (all German car manufacturers) cheat their customers.
Spain: Some Spanish enjoy bullfighting, therefore they (all Spaniards) enjoy killing bulls.
USA: 1 idiot Yank illegally shot a lion, therefore they (Americans) shoot lions at will.

Clearly this is illogical, incorrect and daft which is exactly how I see the "they" applied in this case to Cyprus particularly when it is emphasised as a country characteristic. This would not be so bad if there were evidence of truth in the insult but as noted in the original article quoted previously, this HIV incident is unprecedented.

Pete


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## Hudswell (May 14, 2010)

The "They Attitude" is indicative as the Country as a whole, and yes I do believe that in general there would be be an adverse reaction to this chap with HIV, it is unprecedented because this is the first time it has happened or indeed reported.,, the poor lad needed medical help and probably declared he was HIV positive...unfortunately the prejudices of a number of people were then exposed...and escalated. The examples you give are extreme and not representative of any culture or organisation...and in this case it is not 1 person but it seems a number of persons across the spectrum..Doctors who felt it was appropriate to "warn" the hotel in question....I am sorry but that doesn't sit right with me...I enjoy living in Cyprus, but I do reserve the right to critique the approach it has to Social equality, welfare and animal rights...


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## Hudswell (May 14, 2010)

‘Hotel was within its rights’ - Cyprus Mail Cyprus Mail


And opinions like this only lend weight to the opinion of the stereotypes...and again reflects badly on the opinions of the country as a whole.


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

debs21 said:


> The medical professionals concerned breached patient confidentiality, this is the main issue here and that should not have happened.


Totally agree. 

This should be the initial focus for the authorities. In my opinion, the doctor concerned should be struck off, not just for breaching patient confidentiality, but also for not understanding that HIV cannot be transmitted through bedsheets and towels. If the medical profession are so uninformed, what hope is there for the hotel staff who were following what they though was professional advice?


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

I would think that under EU law the tourist is in his rights to sue the doctor in question. I hope he does, maybe it will make idiots like him stop and think beofre before taking such actions in future.


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## Hudswell (May 14, 2010)

Debs and David are absolutely correct, this doctor has acted totally unprofessionally and appropriate action must now be taken against him. But what he did triggered related actions that exposed a mentality that again is endemic in Cypriot Society. Of course not every Cypriot is Homophobic or HIV phobic ( there is probably a proper word for it). Education is probably key and I think the younger generation are more tolerant than the older. I found the original article alarming, the fact that the Hoteliers position is supported by the Unions I find incredulous and will only serve to support the bad press this incident has generated. I am afraid ignorance is not an excuse these days, and more must be done and more importantly seen to be done to ensure these "incidents" do not happen again.


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## debs21 (Mar 13, 2013)

I also believe that (as someone mentioned earlier) this situation has not happened before, well maybe not but it undoubtedly will again as will similar 'firsts' here. What the authorities seem to lack is the way to handle such situations. Do hospitals and other organisations have a 'press dept' to handle these kind of situations like there in in the uk and many other countries? Surely these departments would save individuals running to spread these kind of things that are actually confidential! Sorry for the rant!


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Hudswell said:


> Debs and David are absolutely correct, this doctor has acted totally unprofessionally and appropriate action must now be taken against him. But what he did triggered related actions that exposed a mentality that again is endemic in Cypriot Society. Of course not every Cypriot is Homophobic or HIV phobic ( there is probably a proper word for it). Education is probably key and I think the younger generation are more tolerant than the older. I found the original article alarming, the fact that the Hoteliers position is supported by the Unions I find incredulous and will only serve to support the bad press this incident has generated. I am afraid ignorance is not an excuse these days, and more must be done and more importantly seen to be done to ensure these "incidents" do not happen again.


Good to see that you have modified your stance with a much more reasoned approach away from the bigotry of the opening post in this thread.

I must say however that I have found no evidence of "a mentality that is endemic in Cypriot Society" since I've been here but there again I've not been seeking it I so perhaps it does exist. I wonder if anyone else has been aware of it?

Pete


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## southcoastlady (Apr 18, 2015)

debs21 said:


> I also believe that (as someone mentioned earlier) this situation has not happened before, well maybe not but it undoubtedly will again as will similar 'firsts' here. What the authorities seem to lack is the way to handle such situations. Do hospitals and other organisations have a 'press dept' to handle these kind of situations like there in in the uk and many other countries? Surely these departments would save individuals running to spread these kind of things that are actually confidential! Sorry for the rant!


I have found this thread interesting having worked in the HIV/AIDS sector as a volunteer in England.

However, confidentiality breaking does happen in Cyprus … I am aware that a local doctor has broken patient confidentiality on at least two occasions. Once by discussing one family's details with another patient and once by discussing a VERY sensitive matter with a friend of a patient.

I do not believe any action was taken but a lot of people have said they will not see the doctor in question because of this.

Although we have found the health care we have received to be first class - this particular behaviour stinks (in my opinion). I hope something is done as some small recompense for the man in question of this thread.


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## Hudswell (May 14, 2010)

Deleted by myself...because actually I got a little annoyed at Pete...but there we go...


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

southcoastlady said:


> I have found this thread interesting having worked in the HIV/AIDS sector as a volunteer in England.
> 
> However, confidentiality breaking does happen in Cyprus … I am aware that a local doctor has broken patient confidentiality on at least two occasions. Once by discussing one family's details with another patient and once by discussing a VERY sensitive matter with a friend of a patient.
> 
> ...


As long as the appointment system here is as it is, where doctors are appointed from a list they were put on when they graduated, and not by qualifications, it will not change.

And teachers are the same btw


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## Talagirl (Feb 24, 2013)

An update from the Cyprus Mail -Sunday 26 September:

The Paphos private hospital at the centre of controversy over an alleged violation of an HIV patient’s privacy, said on Saturday the doctor who had treated the British tourist had a duty and responsibility to inform the hotel of the man’s condition to protect the staff, and the public health.


Doctor had ‘ethical duty’ to notify hotel about HIV guest, Paphos clinic says - Cyprus Mail Cyprus Mail


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

Talagirl said:


> An update from the Cyprus Mail -Sunday 26 September:
> 
> The Paphos private hospital at the centre of controversy over an alleged violation of an HIV patient’s privacy, said on Saturday the doctor who had treated the British tourist had a duty and responsibility to inform the hotel of the man’s condition to protect the staff, and the public health.
> 
> ...


THAT is ofc catastrophic if that is the case and by the law


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## debs21 (Mar 13, 2013)

Based on a rule made in the 1960.s no doubt!


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

debs21 said:


> Based on a rule made in the 1960.s no doubt!


When Cyprus was still a colony you mean....


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## southcoastlady (Apr 18, 2015)

Baywatch said:


> When Cyprus was still a colony you mean....


I am not sure why you even live in Cyprus because you don't have anything good to say about it. 

Why not take a positive pill one morning and try a little harder.


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

southcoastlady said:


> I am not sure why you even live in Cyprus because you don't have anything good to say about it.
> 
> Why not take a positive pill one morning and try a little harder.


What did I say now? Someone say that this is a rule from the sixties and I make a comment about that was when Cyprus belonged to UK.

Or the problem is that you think the doctor were right to tell the hotel?

I live in Cyprus because I love the country and the people here, at least most of them. But I will everytime have an opinion if I think something is wrong. If you like it or not


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## southcoastlady (Apr 18, 2015)

Baywatch said:


> Or the problem is that you think the doctor were right to tell the hotel?
> 
> I absolutely did not say that. Do not try and turn this around on me thank you.


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Lets not have a fall out please folks.


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## Sarchy (Feb 14, 2011)

Cyprus gained independence in 1960 so it was not a colony during the 1960's


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

Sarchy said:


> Cyprus gained independence in 1960 so it was not a colony during the 1960's


But it hardly went from colony to independent over night. It still hasn't in some respects. But it does not matter in this case, homophobia exist in many countries


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## hiatusxenia (May 6, 2013)

Baywatch said:


> But it hardly went from colony to independent over night. It still hasn't in some respects. But it does not matter in this case, homophobia exist in many countries


I agree with Baywatch. He only meant that Cyprus has probably not updated some laws since 1960. We know they do not yet uphold all EU directives either.


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

hiatusxenia said:


> I agree with Baywatch. He only meant that Cyprus has probably not updated some laws since 1960. We know they do not yet uphold all EU directives either.


But they are much better on EU directives now. But the recycling one is catastrophic


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

:focus:

This gets worse all the time. 

Talagirls' link to the Cyprus Mail revealed the following important paragraph, which attempts to justify the doctors' actions by hiding behind 'the law' now being discussed:

_*"Subsequent investigations were launched by the health ministry and the medical association. Hoteliers said they were within their rights to deny service to the tourist under hotel regulations citing a provision under a law dating from the sixties relating to contagious diseases, though they said it was because the man in question was drunk and disorderly, another provision."*_

This law - whichever country introduced it - actually makes sense. Clearly, the reference to exclusion for being drunk and disorderly in this particular case is a distraction as if that were the case, it would not justify a breach of medical confidentiality regarding the mans' HIV status. However, I would certainly expect the government to protect me, by statute, against unnecessarily contracting a contagious disease in a public place. I'm thinking Bird Flu, Cholera, Ebola, Meningits etc. 

Now I'm not a medical professional, *BUT* as far as I am aware, HIV is neither a contagious disease nor is it even a 'notifiable' disease. A Google search seems to support my assertion. There was actually no compulsion for this individual to reveal that he had HIV. His treatment after voluntarily revealing this information will no doubt ensure that in future, HIV positive individuals will be reluctant to reveal their status (and there is no requirement for them to do so). Will that make hotel staff more at risk? I suspect not...


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Baywatch said:


> But they are much better on EU directives now. But the recycling one is *catastrophic*


Wiki: _A catastrophic failure is a sudden and total failure from which recovery is impossible._

I've told you a million times not to exaggerate!

Pete


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

PeteandSylv said:


> Wiki: _A catastrophic failure is a sudden and total failure from which recovery is impossible._
> 
> I've told you a million times not to exaggerate!
> 
> Pete


If you try to teach me English Pete, don't bother. And especially not by using Wiki as a source

extremely unfortunate or unsuccessful.
"catastrophic mismanagement of the economy"
synonyms:	disastrous, calamitous, cataclysmic, ruinous, tragic, fatal, dire, awful, terrible, dreadful, black, woeful, grievous, lamentable, miserable, unfortunate; literary direful

Whatever reputable dictionary you look in you get the above copied meaning. Wiki is wiki, created without any source criticism or quality control. I am sure you know that.


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Baywatch said:


> If you try to teach me English Pete, don't bother. And especially not by using Wiki as a source
> 
> extremely unfortunate or unsuccessful.
> "catastrophic mismanagement of the economy"
> ...


Oh dear Anders,

Try to muster up a tiny bit of a sense of humour and read my post again.

Pete


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

PeteandSylv said:


> Oh dear Anders,
> 
> Try to muster up a tiny bit of a sense of humour and read my post again.
> 
> Pete


Pete, I realized long ting ago that our sense of humor differ a lot.

I have read your post again but I can't understand it in another way than first time I read it.

Some of your posts I find blunt, and even rude, but I don't bother, I have been around too long.


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## MacManiac (Jan 25, 2012)

Hyperbole is somewhat confusing for non-native English speakers to understand. It uses exaggeration for emphasis or effect.

"Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life."

"I contend that we are the first race in the world, and that the more of the world we inhabit the better it is for the human race ... If there be a God, I think that what he would like me to do is paint as much of the map of Africa British Red as possible ..."

So much for British imperialism, according to Cecil Rhodes


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Baywatch said:


> Pete, I realized long ting ago that our sense of humor differ a lot.
> 
> I have read your post again but I can't understand it in another way than first time I read it.
> 
> Some of your posts I find blunt, and even rude, but I don't bother, I have been around too long.


I am sorry that your lack of command of English does not allow you to see that the second sentence of the post (the one with the exclamation mark which was of course a clue) uses exaggeration to accuse someone of exaggeration.

This is, to many, amusing but requires a sense of humour to understand.

Pete


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

PeteandSylv said:


> I am sorry that your lack of command of English does not allow you to see that the second sentence of the post (the one with the exclamation mark which was of course a clue) uses exaggeration to accuse someone of exaggeration.
> 
> This is, to many, amusing but requires a sense of humour to understand.
> 
> Pete


You have to try to remember that this forum is called Cyprus Expat Forum for Expats Living in Cyprus , not Brits in Cyprus


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## Baywatch (Mar 30, 2014)

MacManiac said:


> Hyperbole is somewhat confusing for non-native English speakers to understand. It uses exaggeration for emphasis or effect.
> 
> "Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life."
> 
> ...


Luckily that times are long gone, even if not all have realized it


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