# Can we now claim points for work experience deducted by ACS?



## rajeev3001 (Jan 22, 2020)

Hi,

I saw somewhere (unofficial source on internet) that although ACS deducts 2 years from the work experience, applicants will be allowed to claim points for those 2 years as long as it's after the qualification date.

Can someone please confirm if there's any truth in this news? I'm not able to find any official sources on this.

Thanks


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## EAU2452 (Jun 2, 2016)

This is a vital mistake. There is no way to claim points on deducted years of work experience by ACS.


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## rajeev3001 (Jan 22, 2020)

EAU2452 said:


> This is a vital mistake. There is no way to claim points on deducted years of work experience by ACS.


I was anyway skeptical about this news but later after some searching, I found this on multiple agents' sites.

Are these credible sources at all?
https://www.iscah.com/important-change-work-experience-points/

https://www.australiavisa.com/immigration-news/skilled-employment-points-deeming-date/


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

rajeev3001 said:


> I was anyway skeptical about this news but later after some searching, I found this on multiple agents' sites.
> 
> Are these credible sources at all?
> https://www.iscah.com/important-change-work-experience-points/
> ...


Both these agencies are smaller ones when compared to overall agencies sizes

None of the big migration agencies are advocating this on public platforms 

Cheers


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## Welshtone (Mar 16, 2017)

Hi


Here is Immigration's Policy before and after the change - if it is not clear enough, then maybe you can never be convinced ?

*PAM up to 17th October 2019:*



Employment must be skilled
When can employment be considered skilled
For employment to be awarded points under Schedule 6D, it should meet the following standards:

· had been undertaken at the required standard after the applicant met the entry level requirements as set by the relevant assessing authority for that occupation (that is, completed a sufficient level of study and or amount of on-the-job training and or post-qualification work experience and or registration requirement) and

· involve duties at the level of depth and complexity expected in Australia.

If the relevant assessing authority has not provided an opinion on skilled employment and there are no standards set by the relevant assessing authority available in the public domain, decision makers should refer to guidance in the Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations (ANZSCO) when assessing the applicants’ skilled employment claims.

When is an applicant skilled
An applicant is considered skilled for the purpose of obtaining skilled employment points from the date the relevant assessing authority assessed them as suitable in their nominated skilled occupation:

· If a skills assessment provides a date at which the assessing authority is of the view that the applicant became suitably skilled for awarding employment points, the department will consider only employment undertaken from that date as meeting the skilled employment experience criteria in Schedule 6D. For example, if an applicant has obtained a skilled employment opinion from Australian Computing Society (ACS), they should record in SkillSelect the periods of employment the ACS has determined are at the skilled level and eligible for being awarded points.

· The date on which an applicant becomes suitably skilled for employment experience points may be different from the date on which a relevant assessing authority assesses the person as suitable. For example, a relevant assessing authority may issue a suitable skills assessment on the basis of attainment of a tertiary qualification but may require a period of post qualification work experience before considering an applicant as suitably skilled for the purpose of employment points.

· If the applicant has made claims of skilled employment periods that are not considered by the assessing authority on the skills assessment, the department may refer to publicly available information set by the relevant assessing authority or ANZSCO in order to make a full assessment of the claims. This situation might arise if an applicant is claiming skills over a ten year period but the skills assessment states that it only assesses claims of work experience undertaken in the 5 years immediately prior to skills assessment.



*PAM from 18th October 2019*



10.4 Employment must be skilled

10.4.1 Assessing periods of skilled employment

When assessing periods of skilled employment for the purpose of awarding points, the following must be taken into account:

· the opinion of the relevant skills assessing authority on the period of skilled employment including the date on which they deemed the applicant skilled; and

· the Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations (ANZSCO) including any pre-requisite qualifications/work experience relevant to the claimed skilled employment; and

· any other relevant information (such as employment records and references).

If the skills assessing authority’s opinion would result in the applicant being awarded less points than the applicant claimed in their EOI, then decision makers should consider the information in ANZSCO and apply the more beneficial outcome in determining when the applicant was working at a skilled level.

While having regard to the opinion provided by skills assessing authorities, decision makers also need to be satisfied with the bona fides of the supporting documents presented in making their decision to award points.

The regulations require only that an applicant is employed in a nominated skilled occupation for a particular period of time. The provision does not require the applicant to have skills of a particular standard during that period of employment. The decision maker can consider whether the applicant is undertaking at least some of the duties prescribed for the position in ANZSCO, for example, if a client is claiming employment as a carpenter, the tasks they are undertaking are those of a carpenter.

Regards

Tony


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## rajeev3001 (Jan 22, 2020)

Thanks Tony. So this seems real then.


Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Welshtone said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> Here is Immigration's Policy before and after the change - if it is not clear enough, then maybe you can never be convinced ?
> ...


The problem is that circular puts the decision in the hands of the CO who is not an expert in the field
Menial jobs like carpenter our electrician Wheter they are relevant or not can be decided accurately to a great extent by most people
But when it comes to technical descriptions especially in ICT, the CO may take a wrong decision
So it’s like playing Russian roulette
Not for the faint hearted 

If the department is serious about giving the extra experience, they can always instruct the assessing agencies to apply the new standards
This is a classical case of running with the hares and hunting with the hounds 

Cheers


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## Welshtone (Mar 16, 2017)

NB said:


> The problem is that circular puts the decision in the hands of the CO who is not an expert in the field
> Menial jobs like carpenter our electrician Wheter they are relevant or not can be decided accurately to a great extent by most people
> But when it comes to technical descriptions especially in ICT, the CO may take a wrong decision
> So it’s like playing Russian roulette
> ...


Hi NB

Nothing has changed - Immigration receive "advice" from the assessing bodies in relation to "skilled experience" but they would rarely go against ACS advice unless they were not satisfied with the evidence of the experience - so I agree that ACS are better placed to assess what is Professional ICT experience, than an Immigration case officer. But you need to read into the ACS assessment - the 2 year deduction is an arbitrary deduction and the ACS are clearly recognising the deducted experience as Skilled.

Also, deducted experience and deemed skilled experience are often exactly the same position and duties. 

ACS are overstepping their mark by deciding/stating that their extra experience requirement, to meet the ACS suitability criteria, cannot be counted for experience points. In ACS Guidelines they state that all experience must be "at a professional ICT level and relevant to the nominated occupation to be assessed as suitable for migration skills assessment."

So the case officer, like me, does not need to be a technical ICT guru to work out that when ACS deduct 2 years of experience or whatever, the ACS themselves are stating that it is professional ICT experience that they are deducting. It is logical to assume that the deducted years are skilled experience, as assessed by the ACS and no technical knowledge is required by the case officer.

Regards

Tony


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## Jelly11 (May 23, 2019)

This is very complicated, and potentially very important. 5 extra points can change somebody's life.


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## shashkaps (Dec 10, 2018)

Welshtone said:


> Hi NB
> 
> Nothing has changed - Immigration receive "advice" from the assessing bodies in relation to "skilled experience" but they would rarely go against ACS advice unless they were not satisfied with the evidence of the experience - so I agree that ACS are better placed to assess what is Professional ICT experience, than an Immigration case officer. But you need to read into the ACS assessment - the 2 year deduction is an arbitrary deduction and the ACS are clearly recognising the deducted experience as Skilled.
> 
> ...



Hi Tony,

Have been following your replies over this subject, quite a while now-- Please advise-- I have been working in same industry for 9.5 years (Software Engg- 261313)-- 8 Years Offshore and 1.5 years onshore. ACS deducted 4 years from my Offshore experience-- Bachelor in Electronics (ICT Major but not closely related i believe). But i have all related documents to justify like payslips, annual promotion letters, bank statements -
"The regulations require only that an applicant is employed in a nominated skilled occupation for a particular period of time. The provision does not require the applicant to have skills of a particular standard during that period of employment. The decision maker can consider whether the applicant is undertaking at least some of the duties prescribed for the position in ANZSCO, for example, if a client is claiming employment as a carpenter, the tasks they are undertaking are those of a carpenter."
Currently sitting on 85 (189) and 90(SS - Age 30, PTE-20, Naati-5, Spouse 5, Education 15, SS-5) NSW ( with all additional criteria being met).
Chances for 189 seem distant- so as per your advise can i update my EOI for 189 and keep 190 as it is and have 90 for 189 to have some realistic chance.


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## Welshtone (Mar 16, 2017)

shashkaps said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> Have been following your replies over this subject, quite a while now-- Please advise-- I have been working in same industry for 9.5 years (Software Engg- 261313)-- 8 Years Offshore and 1.5 years onshore. ACS deducted 4 years from my Offshore experience-- Bachelor in Electronics (ICT Major but not closely related i believe). But i have all related documents to justify like payslips, annual promotion letters, bank statements -
> "The regulations require only that an applicant is employed in a nominated skilled occupation for a particular period of time. The provision does not require the applicant to have skills of a particular standard during that period of employment. The decision maker can consider whether the applicant is undertaking at least some of the duties prescribed for the position in ANZSCO, for example, if a client is claiming employment as a carpenter, the tasks they are undertaking are those of a carpenter."
> ...


Hi

Yours has a bit more risk as ACS are saying that your Qualification, with ICT Major, is not closely related to your Nominated Occupation. So the ANZSCO argument is weaker. Nevertheless, ACS are stating that your earlier 4 years of experience is closely related to your Nominated Occupation and is Professional ICT experience. If you have 8 years experience offshore, in the last 10 years, you have potential to claim 15 points for overseas experience and 5 for Australian experience - I will assume that you have just under 8 years and so are looking at increasing claimed 5 points to 10 points. 

I would also be hopeful of a 190 NSW invitation at 85 + 5 as you have been living and working in Sydney for over 12 months, so you should keep an 85 + 5 190 NSW EOI and an 85 point 189 EOI on the system, in case Immigration do not award you the extra 5 experience points claimed. I would look at putting a new separate 190 NSW 90 + 5 EOI and a 189 90 point EOI on the system. Stronger argument can be put where the identical "deducted" experience is "recognised" as skilled cor points by ACS.

As more and more come to the realisation that they have been underclaiming their points for the last 3 months, an 85 point 189 invitation will become an even more distant dream. The winners will be mainly offshore applicants as the majority of onshore ICT applicants do not have overseas experience, unlike you. 

so if you can afford to risk $4,045 application fee, I would be going for it and be expecting an invite in the next 2 to 4 months at 90 points

Regards

Tony


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## veer.sheoran (Sep 10, 2019)

shashkaps said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> Have been following your replies over this subject, quite a while now-- Please advise-- I have been working in same industry for 9.5 years (Software Engg- 261313)-- 8 Years Offshore and 1.5 years onshore. ACS deducted 4 years from my Offshore experience-- Bachelor in Electronics (ICT Major but not closely related i believe). But i have all related documents to justify like payslips, annual promotion letters, bank statements -
> "The regulations require only that an applicant is employed in a nominated skilled occupation for a particular period of time. The provision does not require the applicant to have skills of a particular standard during that period of employment. The decision maker can consider whether the applicant is undertaking at least some of the duties prescribed for the position in ANZSCO, for example, if a client is claiming employment as a carpenter, the tasks they are undertaking are those of a carpenter."
> ...



Thank you for your reply Tony, it has given me some hope to clutch on to. Shall i contact SkillSelect or Immi Dept to validate this interpretation of the regulation? This is to avoid rejection of my visa application once my EoI is selected on the grounds of giving false information.


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## veer.sheoran (Sep 10, 2019)

Welshtone said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> Here is Immigration's Policy before and after the change - if it is not clear enough, then maybe you can never be convinced ?
> ...


Thank you for your reply Tony, it has given me some hope to clutch on to. Shall i contact SkillSelect or Immi Dept to validate this interpretation of the regulation? This is to avoid rejection of my visa application once my EoI is selected on the grounds of giving false information.

I finished by degree in Computer science in June 2011 and started working as Programmer Developer in August 2011. However ACS stated that my employment after July 2013 is considered to equate work at appropriately skilled level to Developer Programmer of the ANZSCO Code. i Completed 8 years in Jan 2020.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

veer.sheoran said:


> Thank you for your reply Tony, it has given me some hope to clutch on to. Shall i contact SkillSelect or Immi Dept to validate this interpretation of the regulation? This is to avoid rejection of my visa application once my EoI is selected on the grounds of giving false information.
> 
> I finished by degree in Computer science in June 2011 and started working as Programmer Developer in August 2011. However ACS stated that my employment after July 2013 is considered to equate work at appropriately skilled level to Developer Programmer of the ANZSCO Code. i Completed 8 years in Jan 2020.


Skillselect has nothing to do with what you claim
DHA will ask you to read their rules
They will not interpret it for you
They will ask you go through a Mara agent if you have doubts

Cheers


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## veer.sheoran (Sep 10, 2019)

NB said:


> Skillselect has nothing to do with what you claim
> DHA will ask you to read their rules
> They will not interpret it for you
> They will ask you go through a Mara agent if you have doubts
> ...


Thanks for your reply NB. Much appreciated!


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## PRDreamer25 (Apr 15, 2020)

Hi all,

I am in similar position with 85 points and ACS deducted 4 years. But as per PAM, my agent is updating it to 90 points. Will it cause any problem in my visa applications. If it got refused due to this 5 points, when can I reapply for 189. 

I am in serious confusion on this, can anyone please help.


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## kunsal (Jul 11, 2018)

PRDreamer25 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am in similar position with 85 points and ACS deducted 4 years. But as per PAM, my agent is updating it to 90 points. Will it cause any problem in my visa applications. If it got refused due to this 5 points, when can I reapply for 189.
> 
> I am in serious confusion on this, can anyone please help.


Firstly, only ISCAH is advocating that deducted experience can be claimed for points. 

Secondly, according to them, you can claim points only if ACS deducts 2 years and your skills are assessed as an ICT Major. 

Since ACS has deducted 4 years, you cannot claim points for any of those for years.


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## Alex patrick (Oct 22, 2017)

NB said:


> Skillselect has nothing to do with what you claim
> DHA will ask you to read their rules
> They will not interpret it for you
> They will ask you go through a Mara agent if you have doubts
> ...


Hello NB, just wanted to check if there is any confirmation on the point deduction?

ACS has deducted two years from my experience.. I have overall 6 years of experience. given that the current situation even 5 points is very important to me. I believe, they have reduced the cutoff points to 65 and the draw happen once in every quarter next in Jan 2021.

I come under the skillset - 261311 Analyst Programmer. ACS gave me the letter stating that - 
*The following employment after 21 March 2017 is considered to equate to work at an appropriately skilled
level and relevant to ANZSCO Code 261311 (Analyst Programmer).

Please advice*


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Alex patrick said:


> Hello NB, just wanted to check if there is any confirmation on the point deduction?
> 
> ACS has deducted two years from my experience.. I have overall 6 years of experience. given that the current situation even 5 points is very important to me. I believe, they have reduced the cutoff points to 65 and the draw happen once in every quarter next in Jan 2021.
> 
> ...


You are safer jumping from a plane without a parachute then claiming points for experience prior to 21 March 2017
Nothing more to add
There is no change to the minimum points requirements in recent times
Cheers


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## j04091983 (Jan 3, 2019)

Hi All, I need some advice regarding ACS. Can some suggest how ACS will work on my case. I am confused as people said ACS will consider only last 10 year from our total experience. Is it true? Below mentioned is the experience and educational information

11 years Overseas skilled employment experience
2.9 years of  Australian skilled employment.

I have completed my bachelor degree in computer science and all my work experience are relevant to Software development.


I am planning to apply for Developer Programmer - ANZSCO 261312.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

j04091983 said:


> Hi All, I need some advice regarding ACS. Can some suggest how ACS will work on my case. I am confused as people said ACS will consider only last 10 year from our total experience. Is it true? Below mentioned is the experience and educational information
> 
> 11 years Overseas skilled employment experience
> 2.9 years of Australian skilled employment.
> ...


2 years from the last 10 years or 4 years from all experience, which ever gives earlier date to claim points
So you have 11+2.9 or overall 11 years ?
Cheers


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## j04091983 (Jan 3, 2019)

NB said:


> 2 years from the last 10 years or 4 years from all experience, which ever gives earlier date to claim points
> So you have 11+2.9 or overall 11 years ?
> Cheers


Thanks for the response. In total i have 13.9 years of experience. So in my case ACS will consider 10.4 years and they deduct 2 years as well right..


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

j04091983 said:


> Thanks for the response. In total i have 13.9 years of experience. So in my case ACS will consider 10.4 years and they deduct 2 years as well right..


They will deduct 4 years and consider 9.9
Cheers


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## Nitish mehta (Jan 15, 2021)

I have a question, i live in QLD. I am completing my PY this 31st of july and I am also completing my one year employment on 20th of july. I am afraid that if I wait for completion certificate of PY it will take 2 to 4 weeks after 31st july. One of migration agent told me thay we can lodge your application for 190 if you lodge the Assement based on employment which will be completed on 20th july. I have heard from one of my friend that if we use employment in degree assessment then we cannot use that experience in claiming extra 5 points for pr. So first question is is this true ? 
Second is what is a good option to get my degree assessed, should I go with experience and lodge my file after 20th july or wait for completion certificate of PY after 31st of july ? 
Any help will appreciate a lot.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Nitish mehta said:


> I have a question, i live in QLD. I am completing my PY this 31st of july and I am also completing my one year employment on 20th of july. I am afraid that if I wait for completion certificate of PY it will take 2 to 4 weeks after 31st july. One of migration agent told me thay we can lodge your application for 190 if you lodge the Assement based on employment which will be completed on 20th july. I have heard from one of my friend that if we use employment in degree assessment then we cannot use that experience in claiming extra 5 points for pr. So first question is is this true ?
> Second is what is a good option to get my degree assessed, should I go with experience and lodge my file after 20th july or wait for completion certificate of PY after 31st of july ?
> Any help will appreciate a lot.


Which Anzsco code ?
Cheers


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## Nitish mehta (Jan 15, 2021)

NB said:


> Which Anzsco code ?
> Cheers


I am planning to apply for Developer Programmer - ANZSCO 261312


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## Nitish mehta (Jan 15, 2021)

Nitish mehta said:


> I have a question, i live in QLD. I am completing my PY this 31st of july and I am also completing my one year employment on 20th of july. I am afraid that if I wait for completion certificate of PY it will take 2 to 4 weeks after 31st july. One of migration agent told me thay we can lodge your application for 190 if you lodge the Assement based on employment which will be completed on 20th july. I have heard from one of my friend that if we use employment in degree assessment then we cannot use that experience in claiming extra 5 points for pr. So first question is is this true ?
> Second is what is a good option to get my degree assessed, should I go with experience and lodge my file after 20th july or wait for completion certificate of PY after 31st of july ?
> Any help will appreciate a lot.


Could anyone guide please ? Anzco code is Developer Programmer - ANZSCO 261312


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## Acinom93 (Jan 5, 2022)

Welshtone said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> Here is Immigration's Policy before and after the change - if it is not clear enough, then maybe you can never be convinced ?
> ...


Hi Tony, 
Thank you for the explanation. 5 Points will indeed make a huge difference to me.
But how can I claim the deducted 2year experience?
The EOI form has "skills met date" and any experience before that automatically is not counted in the EOI points...

Please could you advise ?
TA


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## beckham9921 (Mar 10, 2021)

Hi Team, Was anyone appoved after claiming the points that were deducted by ACS? Relevant qualification/Relevant experience.


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## beckham9921 (Mar 10, 2021)

Hi Team, 

Was anyone appoved after claiming the points that were deducted by ACS?
Relevant qualification/Relevant experience.


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## youme2011 (Dec 5, 2018)

beckham9921 said:


> Hi Team,
> 
> Was anyone appoved after claiming the points that were deducted by ACS?
> Relevant qualification/Relevant experience.


Hi, just to update. My friends (3 of them) got 189 after claiming deducted points. They received grants in November 22


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## youme2011 (Dec 5, 2018)

youme2011 said:


> Hi, just to update. My friends (3 of them) got 189 after claiming deducted points. They received grants in November 22


They were all software engineer 261313 ANZSCO


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## Sheetal23 (15 d ago)

ACS has deducted 8 years out of 10 years work experience, leaving only 2 years to claim since the deemed date .. The reason for deducting 8 years is due to my graduation being commerce but I am claiming experience for ICT. Can someone please let me know if I should claim 2 years or 10 years in 189, 190 and 491 EOI


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## youme2011 (Dec 5, 2018)

Sheetal23 said:


> ACS has deducted 8 years out of 10 years work experience, leaving only 2 years to claim since the deemed date .. The reason for deducting 8 years is due to my graduation being commerce but I am claiming experience for ICT. Can someone please let me know if I should claim 2 years or 10 years in 189, 190 and 491 EOI


It's possible to claim only when the deduction is two years indicating that it's a closely related occupation since ACS deducts two years as training period. I'm not a MARA agent so you shouldn't take my advice as final but I'd rather not claim those points.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Sheetal23 said:


> ACS has deducted 8 years out of 10 years work experience, leaving only 2 years to claim since the deemed date .. The reason for deducting 8 years is due to my graduation being commerce but I am claiming experience for ICT. Can someone please let me know if I should claim 2 years or 10 years in 189, 190 and 491 EOI


You can’t claim 10 years by any stretch of imagination 
Your application will be rejected probably even without giving you an opportunity for explanation 
Cheers


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