# Health Care



## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Hi all,
Just going through some Health Insurance quotes as we are preparing for move next May to the Mijas area.
Any one know what this line of text means....

"Not including>::: "Pharmaceutical products or treatment".

Previsionmedica quoted both of us 65/58 yrs old a total of 170 Euros a month.
I am aware we need this for the first year we live in Spain, then we can apply for Convenio Especial at
60 euros (if you´re under 65 years old) or 157 euros (over 65 years old).
I will the be 66 yrs old and will have to keep paying into because of Bleedy Brexit!
Any ideas of a more economical way through this?
Regards
Keith


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Keithtoon said:


> Hi all,
> Just going through some Health Insurance quotes as we are preparing for move next May to the Mijas area.
> Any one know what this line of text means....
> 
> ...


It means that any medications you may need are not covered by the policy (except, normally, those which may be prescribed for use during a hospital stay). That is pretty much standard for private health insurance, there are a few insurers who will reimburse up to 50% of the cost of medication but, of course, the premiums would be correspondingly higher. The Convenio Especial doesn't include the cost of medications either.

My husband and I have been insured with Prevision Medica for the past 12 years, we currently pay €150 per month for the two of us, now aged 70 and 64. Yours will be more expensive because you are a 65 year old taking out a new policy. Prevision Medica are unusual in that they don't increase premiums for existing policyholders when they turn 65.

Any more economical ways to cover health care post Brexit? Not that I'm aware of, sorry.


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Lynn R, thank you so much for that valuable information!
Brexit...GRrrrrrrrrrrrrr


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

TBH for insurance which fully covers preexisting conditions without co-payment or excess - as it must - what you're paying is phenomenally cheap, too cheap to be true in fact so I'd scrutinise the T&C's VERY carefully.

Such a policy effectively means an insurer is signing a blank cheque.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

MataMata said:


> TBH for insurance which fully covers preexisting conditions without co-payment or excess - as it must - what you're paying is phenomenally cheap, too cheap to be true in fact so I'd scrutinise the T&C's VERY carefully.
> 
> Such a policy effectively means an insurer is signing a blank cheque.


My policy, with the same company as Keithtoon has a quote from, has no co-payments or excess. I'm sure, in common with other companies, they would not cover pre-existing conditions but neither of us had any when we took out the policy 12 years ago. They paid for my open heart surgery in 2018 without any problems (including 8 days in intensive care after the operation plus another 3 nights in a standard room), all the cardiology monitoring after my faulty mitral valve was discovered by a routine checkup - which the policy provides for annually - until surgery became necessary, and all the tests and consultations leading up to the operation. They also paid for a lumpectomy operation for me a few years earlier, again no problems at all.


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Hi,MataMata 

Spent a few hours this morning reviewing quotes. 
What more can one do?


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

It looks like they don't insure your declared conditions? Then if you didn't have full cover you wouldn't qualify for residency, Is that correct?


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Yes, and that's really my point.

By definition a true 'fully inclusive' policy can have no exclusions.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

I don't want to sound controversial but I think what was deleted was very informative , even if it was copy and paste.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

X2, what's the problem?

Not wishing to pry or question the op's homework but you do realise that after Dec 31st. the income requirements for a couple will rise to around €36,000/pa, if that can't be demonstrated by regular income then at least that amount will need showing as savings.

From 2021 retiring to a life in the sun will be an option for the moderately wealthy only.


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Hi ,
Big Brother:::Why was it deleted?
Also talking about minimum earnings.. If I buy the property , no mortgage. Does the minimum amount you have quoted still stand?


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Does the income £36,000 count if you buy the property outright? I will be 66 and retired?
TIA


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

We bought ours outright 3 years ago but we still have to meet the financial requirements in our area. Hopefully this year.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Assuming that British citizens arriving in Spain after the implementation period will be subject to the same requirements as other non-EU citizens (i.e. there is no more favourable agreement reached with EU or Spain), you will need to meet the requirements for a non-lucrative visa, which you must apply at a Spanish consulate before arrival. While there are official regulations laid down by the Spanish government, it's the peculiarity of Spanish bureaucracy that each consulate, or even each consular officer (in your case) may interpret them differently so I suggest you go with an experienced immigration lawyer who is familiar with the peculiarity of a specific consulate. While this doesn't guarantee success, it increases your chances. 
As for property ownership in Spain, it may increase your chances somewhat but you are still expected to show non-working income such as pension or investment sufficient to meet the requirement, or substantial assets which can produce adequate income.


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Hi Joppa,
~~~As for property ownership in Spain, it may increase your chances somewhat but you are still expected to show non-working income such as pension or investment sufficient to meet the requirement, or substantial assets which can produce adequate income~~~~~~

Yes I will have a pension approx £400 a week plus savings £15,000 approx also buying the property outright so fingers crossed.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Plus you need private healthcare with no co-payment (excess).


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Hi Joppa,
Thank you for you answers. Most quotes I look at alway have an option of Excess.
ie...
What is an excess? The wording below, is this what you mean? TIA Keith
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An excess is the amount you’ll have to pay when you make a claim on your health insurance policy.

Having an excess means that you have to pay part of your treatment costs up to the amount of your excess. For example, if you have treatment that costs £3000 and you have agreed an excess of £500, you’ll pay £500 and your insurer will pay the remaining £2500.

The amount of your excess is chosen by you and/or your insurer when you take your policy out, depending on the type of excess.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Keithtoon said:


> Hi Joppa,
> Thank you for you answers. Most quotes I look at alway have an option of Excess.
> ie...
> What is an excess? The wording below, is this what you mean? TIA Keith
> ...


We have healthcare with Aegon and its got no copay (excess) and is Ok for residency even though it doesn't cover existing conditions (not that I have any, but the wife does but they are simple ones)

From what our solicitor has said ANY policy with any copay will not get you residency, but existing conditions won't in many cases stop you. It all depends on what it is (my wife has asthma and a skin condition and both the inhaler and cream is available in Spain over the counter) 

If you have a bad heart condition or something similar and require constant treatment and medicines it would be easier to stay in the Uk or just to visit for 90 days. (although I'm not sure if you would be refused treatment in an emergency in Spain)

We are due to move in mid August this year (in fact if not for cover we would already have arrived as the first ferry was booked for the 3rd July)


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Keithtoon said:


> Hi Joppa,
> Thank you for you answers. Most quotes I look at alway have an option of Excess.
> ie...
> What is an excess? The wording below, is this what you mean? TIA Keith
> ...


Keith, just to clarify - the Previsión Medica Salud policy which my husband and I have does not involve any co-payments or excess. I have never paid a centimo towards the cost of any treatment I have received under the policy, not even my heart surgery and intensive care stay, which must have cost many thousands - but I have no idea how much because the bills go direct to the company. All I have to do is make sure the company has approved the treatment or hospital admission - in fact the hospital or clinic would not admit me unless they have that authorisation.

Of course I did not have a heart condition (or any other pre-existing condition) when I took the cover out in 2008.


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

hi all,
Thank you Lynn R... Now getting a clearer view...

MAS SALUD
(no excess)
Monthly	
€228.80
Only Mas Salud No Excess is suitable for the residency application,


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Keithtoon said:


> hi all,
> Thank you Lynn R... Now getting a clearer view...
> 
> MAS SALUD
> ...


Nope thats wrong Mas Salud are just one of many companies and as long you can get the paperwork, certificate etc in Spanish ANY healthcare policy with no excess or copay is suitable. 
I checked the suitability of ours with our solicitor before taking out the policy. They have had others use the one we have and get residency with no issues.

We have ours with Aegon through the bank, its about 55euros a month (Health complete policy) It has no co pay or excess.


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Hi Barrie,
Thank you for the info!!!
Wow this is confusing !!!!!! "Told one thing then another other!!!
We are just looking for quotes as we hope to be out there next year to retire so just prepping, as you do. 
Also what proof did you provide for funds? We just read £600 a month would be OK but MataMata on this post, has quoted yearly earnings of £36000 !!! 
I have never earned that in my life!!!
We are Brits , 65 and 57 old when hopefully we get to live in Spain!
TIA guys...


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Keithtoon said:


> Hi Barrie,
> Thank you for the info!!!
> Wow this is confusing !!!!!! "Told one thing then another other!!!
> We are just looking for quotes as we hope to be out there next year to retire so just prepping, as you do.
> ...


Never heard of anyone apart from non EU needing that much. We arrived seven years ago it was €7000 pppa last year when getting our permanent residency it was €12000pppa

This is obviously all dependent on arrival pre end of this year after that yes, it’s upwards of €36k

Edited Mata Mata clearly stated after the end of this year so yes as of January 2021 you will have to show income of €36000 approx as non EU citizen.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Keithtoon said:


> Hi Barrie,
> Thank you for the info!!!
> Wow this is confusing !!!!!! "Told one thing then another other!!!
> We are just looking for quotes as we hope to be out there next year to retire so just prepping, as you do.
> ...


We haven't moved yet (was supposed to be on a ferry a couple of days ago) but now its mid august.

The actual amount varies according to the region you end up in.
For us in Xirles (polop a town inland of Benidorm and Albir) we have to show either approx 7000 euros in a Spanish account Or an income of around 650 a month each (as we are going as individuals).
Health care obviously 
We have the property mortgage free but thats not something they look at
We also have our NIE 

But with the new system God knows what they will want (thats why Im paying someone to do it all)

After the end of the year, I would base my figures on whatever a 3rd country citizen needs. 
So if you look at what a US or Canadian citizen has to provide you won't be too far out.
Although I think (but could be wrong) that whatever you show to get the original residency you will have to show at the end of the 5 years to extend it. (again i could be wrong here)

Good luck with your plans.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Barriej said:


> After the end of the year, I would base my figures on whatever a 3rd country citizen needs.
> So if you look at what a US or Canadian citizen has to provide you won't be too far out.
> Although I think (but could be wrong) that whatever you show to get the original residency you will have to show at the end of the 5 years to extend it. (again i could be wrong here)


The current figures for third country nationals (including US and Canadian citizens) applying for a non lucrative visa (ie people who will not be working in Spain) are €25,861 per year for a single person and €6,454 for each additional family member, so almost €32,500 for a couple. It is based on multiples of the Spanish minimum income, so goes up in line with increases to that, those are this year's figures so it could be higher next year.


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Lynn R said:


> The current figures for third country nationals (including US and Canadian citizens) applying for a non lucrative visa (ie people who will not be working in Spain) are €25,861 per year for a single person and €6,454 for each additional family member, so almost €32,500 for a couple. It is based on multiples of the Spanish minimum income, so goes up in line with increases to that, those are this year's figures so it could be higher next year.


Mmmm...
So when we are 66,67,68 etc we have to earn these amounts every year till death!

Pointless moving to Spain then


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Keithtoon said:


> Mmmm...
> So when we are 66,67,68 etc we have to earn these amounts every year till death!
> 
> Pointless moving to Spain then


Unless you have very good occupational pension together with state pension, or investment that generates a good return.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Keithtoon said:


> Mmmm...
> So when we are 66,67,68 etc we have to earn these amounts every year till death!
> 
> Pointless moving to Spain then


You do not have to prove that amount annually, as far as I know, but yes €32K per year on average for a couple with no children. Plus health insurance 

As has been stated moving to Spain or probably anywhere else in the EU will now be out of reach for many individuals planning such a move. 

One suspects the tone of this and many moving to Spain forums will change considerably after January 1st 2021. All our experiences of moving under the old system will become null and void as it will not apply to anyone coming after that date. We will still have a wealth of knowledge on how to go about things once here, but getting here will be a different ball game.

As an aside, with Brexit being almost three years since the result these potential incomes have been about for a long time. By moving next year you were always going to be treated as an non EU citizen etc


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> You do not have to prove that amount annually, as far as I know, but yes €32K per year on average for a couple with no children. Plus health insurance


The first visa is usually issued for a year, then 2 years then I think 5. At each renewal, income & healthcare have to be proved again. 


A Canadian couple I teach are renewing their visa & having trouble with health insurance. I'm not sure if requirements have changed, or if they decided to shop around a bit, but they've just been refused due to the insurance. 

They spent most of yesterday trying to sort out new insurance so that they could get their appeal in.


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Hi,
I have been doing a lot of research on this website..
Will post name but might end up in the village square having mouldy fruit thrown at me .... here goes!
www.healthplanspain.com


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Keithtoon said:


> Hi,
> I have been doing a lot of research on this website..
> Will post name but might end up in the village square having mouldy fruit thrown at me .... here goes!
> www.healthplanspain.com


Not sure what this is apart from a application for insurance.

Can you not make your move this year?

It's a pity people are being punished penalised over brex**** but you never know, there might be an agreement yet. In fact nobody on here knows exactly what the outcome will be.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Roy C said:


> Not sure what this is apart from a application for insurance.
> 
> Can you not make your move this year?
> 
> It's a pity people are being punished penalised over brex**** but you never know, there might be an agreement yet. In fact nobody on here knows exactly what the outcome will be.


I thought it had all be agreed and decided? Withdrawal agreement etc etc or am I missing something?


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Megsmum said:


> I thought it had all be agreed and decided? Withdrawal agreement etc etc or am I missing something?


I thought the withdrawal agreement yes but I think there are still deals to be done but not for the first time I could be completely wrong, which wouldn't surprise me as I usually am 😁🙄


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Hi xabiaxica....
I have been doing a lot of research on this website..
Will post name but might end up in the village square having mouldy fruit thrown at me .... here goes!
www.healthplanspain.com


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Sorry,
the site I mentioned was for xabiaxica.


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Can you not make your move this year?

It's a pity people are being punished penalised over brex**** but you never know, there might be an agreement yet. In fact nobody on here knows exactly what the outcome will be.[/QUOTE]

Have been thinking of renting Nov to Jan 2021, while over there applying for residency? Return to UK to sell house before May. Will have approx £350000 to purchase house after spending may be renting again to find that "Perfect Abode"
Will have Gov pension by then also Private pension.Of course I will have savings.
Is this a canny idea?
Regards
Keith.:fingerscrossed:


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Keithtoon said:


> Can you not make your move this year?
> 
> It's a pity people are being punished penalised over brex**** but you never know, there might be an agreement yet. In fact nobody on here knows exactly what the outcome will be.


Have been thinking of renting Nov to Jan 2021, while over there applying for residency? Return to UK to sell house before May. Will have approx £350000 to purchase house after spending may be renting again to find that "Perfect Abode"
Will have Gov pension by then also Private pension.Of course I will have savings.
Is this a canny idea?
Regards
Keith.:fingerscrossed:[/QUOTE]

Getting over and applying for residency this year would be the best thing but I’m not sure you’ll find a rental contract, which you will need, for that short length of time although you may get a winter let. You will need income now thought to show not future income if that makes sense


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Roy C said:


> Not sure what this is apart from a application for insurance.
> 
> Can you not make your move this year?
> 
> It's a pity people are being punished penalised over brex**** but you never know, *there might be an agreement yet*. In fact nobody on here knows exactly what the outcome will be.


Nope, that possibility no longer exists because the deadline for that has passed.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

EverHopeful said:


> Nope, that possibility no longer exists because the deadline for that has passed.


Yes that’s what I thought.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Megsmum said:


> Yes that’s what I thought.


It is absolutely the case and has been announced by the EU (Barnier) - with regret of course. Sorry, but I can't be bothered looking for the link, which was provided somewhere on the France Forum, but has also been reported in the media in various countries. Perhaps check https://www.euronews.com/


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Megsmum said:


> Have been thinking of renting Nov to Jan 2021, while over there applying for residency? Return to UK to sell house before May. Will have approx £350000 to purchase house after spending may be renting again to find that "Perfect Abode"
> Will have Gov pension by then also Private pension.Of course I will have savings.
> Is this a canny idea?
> Regards
> Keith.:fingerscrossed:


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At the moment this the 2020 Requirement, or is it?
I can only try..................

"Getting over and applying for residency this year would be the best thing but I’m not sure you’ll find a rental contract, which you will need, for that short length of time although you may get a winter let. You will need income now thought to show not future income if that makes sense[/QUOTE]

If you are not retired or not EU worker
If you are not re*tired or you are not work*ing in the EU you will need:

health insurance policy with FULL cover
Proof that you have 8,000€ per person in a Spanish bank account
Photograph Passport size
Passport
Padron less than 3 months old"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

I would look into tax implications of selling a house just before moving to Spain.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

EverHopeful said:


> It is absolutely the case and has been announced by the EU (Barnier) - with regret of course. Sorry, but I can't be bothered looking for the link, which was provided somewhere on the France Forum, but has also been reported in the media in various countries. Perhaps check https://www.euronews.com/


Well, at least I was right about something, that I was wrong 😂

Just wishing for a little hope for others.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Keithtoon said:


> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> At the moment this the 2020 Requirement, or is it?
> I can only try..................
> 
> "Getting over and applying for residency this year would be the best thing but I’m not sure you’ll find a rental contract, which you will need, for that short length of time although you may get a winter let. You will need income now thought to show not future income if that makes sense


If you are not retired or not EU worker
If you are not re*tired or you are not work*ing in the EU you will need:

health insurance policy with FULL cover
Proof that you have 8,000€ per person in a Spanish bank account
Photograph Passport size
Passport
Padron less than 3 months old"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/QUOTE]

You will need a rental contract, afaik...not a temporary address.

The €8000pp varies from region to region, Office to office, person to person. I live in one of the poorer region of Spain and for us, when applying for our five year permanent residency card last year, had to show €12000 pppa, a rise of 6K from our original application. Others have not had to prove any income when applying for a permanent card!. 
If you become resident this year and sell your U.K. house next year you will be liable , again afaik, for capital gains tax in Spain. Your tax liability starts here January 2021 if you move before the end of this year.

I really want to say yes your plan works but I’m afraid when you overcome one hurdle another, like capital gains tax, will crop up.

I do not know you or your financial, work and health situation etc only you know if these things make it possible. Sometimes it’s like putting a square peg in a round hole.
If we had not made the move seven years ago we would not have come post Brexit vote as the withdrawal agreement took too long to get settled, even those of us already living here only really knew what was happening to us earlier this year, it was only last week the Spanish government set out details of how we gain our TIE cards.

I, like Roy, wish we could just give you some hope, but that ship has sailed. 

Good luck in whatever you decide


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Keithtoon said:


> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> At the moment this the 2020 Requirement, or is it?
> I can only try..................
> 
> "Getting over and applying for residency this year would be the best thing but I’m not sure you’ll find a rental contract, which you will need, for that short length of time although you may get a winter let. You will need income now thought to show not future income if that makes sense


If you are not retired or not EU worker
If you are not re*tired or you are not work*ing in the EU you will need:

health insurance policy with FULL cover
Proof that you have 8,000€ per person in a Spanish bank account
Photograph Passport size
Passport
Padron less than 3 months old"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/QUOTE]
That info isn't quite correct.


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Megsmum said:


> If you are not retired or not EU worker
> If you are not re*tired or you are not work*ing in the EU you will need:
> 
> health insurance policy with FULL cover
> ...


You will need a rental contract, afaik...not a temporary address.

The €8000pp varies from region to region, Office to office, person to person. I live in one of the poorer region of Spain and for us, when applying for our five year permanent residency card last year, had to show €12000 pppa, a rise of 6K from our original application. Others have not had to prove any income when applying for a permanent card!. 
If you become resident this year and sell your U.K. house next year you will be liable , again afaik, for capital gains tax in Spain. Your tax liability starts here January 2021 if you move before the end of this year.

I really want to say yes your plan works but I’m afraid when you overcome one hurdle another, like capital gains tax, will crop up.

I do not know you or your financial, work and health situation etc only you know if these things make it possible. Sometimes it’s like putting a square peg in a round hole.
If we had not made the move seven years ago we would not have come post Brexit vote as the withdrawal agreement took too long to get settled, even those of us already living here only really knew what was happening to us earlier this year, it was only last week the Spanish government set out details of how we gain our TIE cards.

I, like Roy, wish we could just give you some hope, but that ship has sailed. 

Good luck in whatever you decide[/QUOTE]

Wow! Thank you....
Selling the house and using all the capital to purchase in Spain was OK, I thought. No CGT
Rental:3 month contract will be ok or even 6 months, whatever it takes.
The region Mijas Costa.
The input to this thread is brilliant!
Thank you all.
Keith


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Re what was being said earlier in the thread about it not yet being known what rules would apply to UK citizens wishing to move to Spain after 31 December 2021. It appears that it is now confirmed that they will be subject to the immigration rules applying to third country nationals (which include the minimum income figures detailed elsewhere in the thread). This is from an official European Commission communication:-


"As of 1 January 2021, free movement between the European Union and the United Kingdom
ends. This will have repercussions on the ease of mobility for all EU citizens who are not
beneficiaries of the Withdrawal Agreement and wish to stay in the United Kingdom for
longer periods, be they students, workers, retired people or their family members. All their
movements to the United Kingdom will be governed by UK immigration laws. UK companies
wanting to recruit EU citizens will have to follow UK rules that do not apply today under the
Union regime. All movements to the EU of UK nationals who are not beneficiaries of the
Withdrawal Agreement will be governed by Union and Member States’ migration rules. EU
companies wanting to recruit UK nationals will have to follow the relevant rules for thirdcountry nationals of the Union and their respective Member States."

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/inf...ommunication_from_commission_to_inst_en_0.pdf


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> Re what was being said earlier in the thread about it not yet being known what rules would apply to UK citizens wishing to move to Spain after 31 December 2021. It appears that it is now confirmed that they will be subject to the immigration rules applying to third country nationals (which include the minimum income figures detailed elsewhere in the thread). This is from an official European Commission communication:-
> 
> 
> "As of 1 January 2021, free movement between the European Union and the United Kingdom
> ...



I suppose with this coming in, people travelling with a UK passport to Spain (even though resident) will have to go through the non EU gate?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Roy C said:


> I suppose with this coming in, people travelling with a UK passport to Spain (even though resident) will have to go through the non EU gate?


Yes, if you read the document in full it actually confirms that. Also that UK passport holders entering the Schengen area will be subject to "thorough checks". Which presumably will mean that people will find it difficult to get around the 90 days in every 180 rule.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> Yes, if you read the document in full it actually confirms that. Also that UK passport holders entering the Schengen area will be subject to "thorough checks". Which presumably will mean that people will find it difficult to get around the 90 days in every 180 rule.


I skimmed through it but it sounds a bit of a pain for those with the residency and a UK passport returning to Spain , also then for travel around the EU they will be subject to the same rules as the rest of the UK citizens. .


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Roy C said:


> I skimmed through it but it sounds a bit of a pain for those with the residency and a UK passport returning to Spain , also then for travel around the EU they will be subject to the same rules as the rest of the UK citizens. .


Maybe so, but we'll know who to blame (and it won't be the Spanish Government nor the EU).


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Totally agree with that and nearly half of the voters in 2016.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

In other words, Britons who are beneficiary of the withdrawal agreement, resident in Spain, can only exercise their rights under the WA within Spain. As soon as they step outside in the rest of Schengen area, they are subject to the same rules as other UK citizens, i.e. 90-in-180 days, no right to work etc, with the exception of healthcare. Those who are registered under the Spanish healthcare scheme (SNS) can get EHIC (TSE) from social security office, or those who have S1 from UK can get EHIC from Newcastle (request by phone).


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> Re what was being said earlier in the thread about it not yet being known what rules would apply to UK citizens wishing to move to Spain after 31 December 2021. It appears that it is now confirmed that they will be subject to the immigration rules applying to third country nationals (which include the minimum income figures detailed elsewhere in the thread). This is from an official European Commission communication:-
> 
> 
> "As of 1 January 2021, free movement between the European Union and the United Kingdom
> ...


Thanks for posting that, I was going to do so.

Note that Section II applies regardless of continuing negotiations on the future relationship. This of course affects both EU citizens who are not British, and British citizens who are not otherwise EU cirizens. Also there is something in the document about reciprocity that is worth noting.


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## Mark s (Jun 6, 2019)

I watched a live FB q&a session from the uk consulate in Madrid yesterday and they categorically stated that expat residents in Spain can travel freely within the Shengen area after 31/12/20 as our rights as eu citizens have been protected by the withdrawal agreement.
If anyone one who wishes to apply for residency this year, as we do, and other things obviously, it is a very informative FB group ( as this group is) called ‘brits in Spain’.

Here’s the link to the q&a session video for residency applications.

https://www.facebook.com/BritsInSpain/videos/3207793459277696/


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

So this means that all uk passport holders will need to proceed through the non EU lines at airports etc. Documentation will be looked at by officers and passports stamped. There will be no preference to those with spanish residency cards. Informacion will be collected and used to establish time spent in spain. It will also no doubt mean long queues. Not good for frequent flyers. Another thing is that we wont be able to move to any other EU country as are free movement has been lost


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Roy C said:


> I skimmed through it but it sounds a bit of a pain for those with the residency and a UK passport returning to Spain , also then for travel around the EU they will be subject to the same rules as the rest of the UK citizens. .


Thank god for my dual citizenship U.K./Irish.... I know which passport I’ll be using !


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Megsmum said:


> Thank god for my dual citizenship U.K./Irish.... I know which passport I’ll be using !


Me too 🇮🇪


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

For Spanish residents, it will only impact on journeys between UK and a Schengen country. As they are already in Schengen, there are no immigration formalities when moving around Schengen and back to Spain, which encompasses most of Western Europe plus a few other countries.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

True. I have flown from Amsterdam to Malaga and there is no passport control.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

We are not allowed to work in other EU countries though?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

kaipa said:


> We are not allowed to work in other EU countries though?


The WA protects the British citizen's rights to work and reside as per existing EU Directives only in the EU state where they legally reside on 31st December 2020.

But each country will have its own rules about how non-EU residents can live and work there, so there is no single answer that applies to every EU country.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Overandout said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> > We are not allowed to work in other EU countries though?
> ...


I was under the opinion that we cant, for example ,live in Spain and apply for a job in say France or Germany or for that matter carry on working in one EU country and reside in another.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

kaipa said:


> I was under the opinion that we cant, for example ,live in Spain and apply for a job in say France or Germany or for that matter carry on working in one EU country and reside in another.


WA does protect the right of existing cross-border workers, so if you currently live in Spain but work in France you can continue to do so, provided you return home every day (or once a week - I'm not sure), so only feasible if you live and work near the border. What it doesn't say is about someone who resides in Spain but travels throughout EU for work, such as service engineer. This is subject to further agreement between UK and EU, but I wouldn't be holding my breath.


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## Pipeman (Apr 1, 2016)

Dragging the subject back on topic...

If residence requires a heathcare policy with no copay AND no exclusions but you have pre-existing conditions which aren't covered... how do you get round this?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Well you don't have to declare your pre-existing conditions when getting residency. Functionario is only interested in what kind of medical insurance you have, not your medical history.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Joppa said:


> Well you don't have to declare your pre-existing conditions when getting residency. Functionario is only interested in what kind of medical insurance you have, not your medical history.


No, the funcionario doesn't ask. Hoever the insurance company does... & the policy is supposed to be no co-pay no exclusions


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

xabiaxica said:


> No, the funcionario doesn't ask. Hoever the insurance company does... & the policy is supposed to be no co-pay no exclusions


Yes, there is that, a medical/health problem. But this shouldn't impinge on residency?


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

xabiaxica said:


> No, the funcionario doesn't ask. Hoever the insurance company does... & the policy is supposed to be no co-pay no exclusions


And if you don’t declare and you need the medication or worse you won’t be covered. Too much of a risk for me I’m afraid



> Yes, there is that, a medical/health problem. But this shouldn't impinge on residency?


But if you require healthcare because you have issues why would you risk buying a policy that does not cover you, bearing in mind policies are for a full year to start with, a whole year not covered for a pre existing condition


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Megsmum said:


> And if you don’t declare and you need the medication or worse you won’t be covered. Too much of a risk for me I’m afraid
> 
> 
> 
> But if you require healthcare because you have issues why would you risk buying a policy that does not cover you, bearing in mind policies are for a full year to start with, a whole year not covered for a pre existing condition


To some extent, you have to buy the policy for the full year without being covered for all of it anyway, because of the waiting periods imposed by all the insurance companies for most kinds of treatment (usually GP visits and emergency treatment is covered but there is a waiting period for everything else, which can vary from 3 months up to 9 months).

I just checked out Sanitas as an example (one of the best known companies and certainly not the cheapest). Their highest level of cover policy has a waiting period of TEN months for hospitalisation, including day surgery.

https://www.sanitasexpat.com/mas-salud-cover/


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Joppa said:


> Yes, there is that, a medical/health problem. But this shouldn't impinge on residency?


The point is that the applicant must be covered for everything, with no need of recourse to the public health service. 

If say, you've had a heart problem, & don't declare it - & have a relapse which, because you hadn't declared it wasn't covered by the policy. 

Who pays for the care? (Apart from the issue of having made a false declaration)


As I understand it, having a pre-existing condition doesn't mean that you can't get insurance, simply that it will cost more for any pre-existing condition to be included.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> To some extent, you have to buy the policy for the full year without being covered for all of it anyway, because of the waiting periods imposed by all the insurance companies for most kinds of treatment (usually GP visits and emergency treatment is covered but there is a waiting period for everything else, which can vary from 3 months up to 9 months).
> 
> I just checked out Sanitas as an example (one of the best known companies and certainly not the cheapest). Their highest level of cover policy has a waiting period of TEN months for hospitalisation, including day surgery.
> 
> https://www.sanitasexpat.com/mas-salud-cover/


I take it the reason for the exclusion zone, is to ensure (neatrly a pun) you haven't got a pre existing condition?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Roy C said:


> I take it the reason for the exclusion zone, is to ensure (neatrly a pun) you haven't got a pre existing condition?


Yes, absolutely. The insurance companies are wise to people claiming they didn't know they had some kind of pre-existing condition and trying to claim for it a couple of months into the policy.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

xabiaxica said:


> The point is that the applicant must be covered for everything, with no need of recourse to the public health service.
> 
> If say, you've had a heart problem, & don't declare it - & have a relapse which, because you hadn't declared it wasn't covered by the policy.
> 
> ...


It depends on the severity of the condition, insurance companies will often refuse to cover certain conditions at all, not just quote a higher premium to cover them. If you've had cancer (even if it has been successfully treated) you might as well have leprosy as far as insurance companies are concerned.

Same with travel insurance - I tried to get quotes at the beginning of this year and could only get cover that specifically excluded the heart condition or the cancer I'd had surgery for (and neither of which require any further treatment), because I'd had hospital treatment within the last 2 years for both.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> It depends on the severity of the condition, insurance companies will often refuse to cover certain conditions at all, not just quote a higher premium to cover them. If you've had cancer (even if it has been successfully treated) you might as well have leprosy as far as insurance companies are concerned.
> 
> Same with travel insurance - I tried to get quotes at the beginning of this year and could only get cover that specifically excluded the heart condition or the cancer I'd had surgery for (and neither of which require any further treatment), because I'd had hospital treatment within the last 2 years for both.


That certainly makes things difficult for those wanting to move to Spain, though I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise really.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

xabiaxica said:


> Lynn R said:
> 
> 
> > It depends on the severity of the condition, insurance companies will often refuse to cover certain conditions at all, not just quote a higher premium to cover them. If you've had cancer (even if it has been successfully treated) you might as well have leprosy as far as insurance companies are concerned.
> ...



So does this mean that anyone coming after Dec 31st who maybe has health issues will need to have quite expensive insurance or will they automatically be able to use the S1s ?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kaipa said:


> So does this mean that anyone coming after Dec 31st who maybe has health issues will need to have quite expensive insurance or will they automatically be able to use the S1s ?


Anyone coming after Dec 31st won't be able to get an S1. They will only be issued to those of us already legally resident before that date, when we reach retirement age.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

kaipa said:


> So does this mean that anyone coming after Dec 31st who maybe has health issues will need to have quite expensive insurance or will they automatically be able to use the S1s ?


As things stand at the moment anyone newly moving to Spain from 1 January 2021 will not be able to get an S1 form, whether they are a UK state pensioner/in receipt of disability benefits or not. Only those who are already resident in Spain by 31 December 2020 retain the S1 coverage they already have, and if they are not yet of state pension age they can obtain an S1 from the UK once they do start to receive their state pension. Those rights are protected under the Withdrawal Agreement.

The only thing which could change this is if some kind of new agreement is reached between the UK and Spain and I have seen no reports of any such thing being in the pipeline, has anyone else?

People wanting to move to Spain after 1 January who have pre-existing conditions may not be able to get health insurance to cover those conditions at all (depending on what the conditions are), it's not just a question of the cover being expensive.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

In 2014, the Affordable Care Act in the USA prohibited insurance companies from excluding pre-existing conditions, but I am pretty sure this does not apply in Spain (or the UK).

There is some useful information here about how insurance companies treat pre-existing conditions (it's about the UK but the situation is pretty much the same here in Spain).

https://www.money.co.uk/health-insu...policy does not,conditions after a set period.


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## Token (Jul 9, 2020)

Hi. Is anyone able to advise on the lowest priced health insurance cover I can get that is eligible for residency.

Secondly, is it true that no matter what health cover i get I will still not be eligible for the '10% prescription' price which you could get pre-Brexit as a UK (EU) citizen through the EHIC card? (i.e. - pre-brexit you could go to a doctor as a temporary patient and get a prescription for something and pay the same price as a Spaniard - which was often 10% of the extortionate walk-in pharmacy prices).?


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## Token (Jul 9, 2020)

Mark s said:


> Here’s the link to the q&a session video for residency applications.
> 
> facebook.com/BritsInSpain/videos/3207793459277696/


Thanks for that. I've recently watched it.

Whereby i understand the lady in the video (bottom right) can't give specific tax advise I was a little disappointed with her lack of knowledge re the

*'You can get residency without being tax resident' *thing that she mentions early on in the video. As that's confused me somewhat.

As I understood that to be resident you have to spend more than 6 months in Spain, and I thought that spending more than 6 months in Spain automatically made you tax resident there (as even just 1 day over 6 months is classed as the majority of the year)?

Can anyone else shed any light on this? Or are you as confused as I am.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> The only thing which could change this is if some kind of new agreement is reached between the UK and Spain and I have seen no reports of any such thing being in the pipeline, has anyone else?


Only thing I can find is in UK's draft social security co-ordination agreement, which effectively extends the validity of EHIC beyond 2020 and healthcare needs of cross-border workers.
See p 16ff in https://assets.publishing.service.g...FT_Social_Security_Coordination_Agreement.pdf


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Token said:


> Mark s said:
> 
> 
> > Here’s the link to the q&a session video for residency applications.
> ...


This is continuously being raised on this forum. As some people are wanting to register as residents but effectively still wish to work in uk ,they want to take advantage of the EU law prior to UK leaving in December and then transfer to Spain at a later date. Now many are arguing that if you live in uk for over 6 months but have Spanish residency then you will not need to pay tax in uk. It really depends on how you interpret the law but at the end of the day your residency application will automatically assume that you declare in Spain meaning you can not declare as a non-resident, as many do at the moment for various non resident taxes. You will be contacted ( mostly by your lawyer) to complete a Spanish declaration in which you will require to provide your permanent address and other information. You will have also needed to declare all your foreign assests. Eventually if you persist in not declaring using the 6 month law you will be at least be questioned about your affairs. The Spanish tax authority was in the past seen as fairly ineffective but in recent years they have become much more serious about this.Having said that you will get many people here arguing I'm wrong and many saying they have done it and nothing happened.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Token said:


> Hi. Is anyone able to advise on the lowest priced health insurance cover I can get that is eligible for residency.
> 
> Secondly, is it true that no matter what health cover i get I will still not be eligible for the '10% prescription' price which you could get pre-Brexit as a UK (EU) citizen through the EHIC card? (i.e. - pre-brexit you could go to a doctor as a temporary patient and get a prescription for something and pay the same price as a Spaniard - which was often 10% of the extortionate walk-in pharmacy prices).?


Paying 10% of the actual cost of the medication is not paying the same price as a Spaniard - only pensioners are eligible to pay 10% (and the cost is capped at €8 per month for those whose income is below €18k per year and €18 per month for incomes between €18k and €100k. People of working age have to pay at least 40%, or 60% for those on higher incomes.

Few private health insurance policies will pay for medications (only a few offer reimbursement of up to 50% but the premiums for those will be at the higher end of the range anyway). The convenio especial (although that's not relevant to you because you have to have been officially registered as a resident for at least one year to be eligible for it) does not cover the cost of medications either.

I would not call the price of medications (which are controlled by the Government) extortionate at all. Many of them are considerably cheaper than the NHS prescription charge (asthma inhalers, for example, my family and friends have often bought those OTC here to take home).

Look back at the beginning of this thread to see some information about a reasonably priced insurance option in the Málaga area (but they only cover that area).


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

In parallel to the topic of health insurance for residency it's worth pointing out that post Dec 31st. and now deprived of the comfort blanket of an EHIC, the travel insurance visitors will need will be subject to similar exclusions for pre-existing conditions meaning that those who choose to travel anyway could be placing themselves at risk of potentially bankrupting medical bills.

Those who voted for Brex****e will of course have carefully considered not only that but also fully researched and informed themselves on the plethora of other negative consequences of leaving, many of which are only now percolating out of the morass of confusion, before putting their 'x' in the leave box.

I wish I was that clever!


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

Yes...I recently bought some asthma inhalers over the counter in Spain for a friend back home.
2.50 euros each. Not bad at all.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

As I understand it, Spain has yet to determine the requirements for Brits moving after 31 December, though you can expect it to include some form of health cover. At this time, you would probably be best to look at the visa requirements for other third country nationals (Americans, Canadians, Australians) to see what cover they require.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

kaipa said:


> This is continuously being raised on this forum. As some people are wanting to register as residents but effectively still wish to work in uk ,they want to take advantage of the EU law prior to UK leaving in December and then transfer to Spain at a later date. Now many are arguing that if you live in uk for over 6 months but have Spanish residency then you will not need to pay tax in uk. It really depends on how you interpret the law but at the end of the day your residency application will automatically assume that you declare in Spain meaning you can not declare as a non-resident, as many do at the moment for various non resident taxes. You will be contacted ( mostly by your lawyer) to complete a Spanish declaration in which you will require to provide your permanent address and other information. You will have also needed to declare all your foreign assests. Eventually if you persist in not declaring using the 6 month law you will be at least be questioned about your affairs. The Spanish tax authority was in the past seen as fairly ineffective but in recent years they have become much more serious about this.Having said that you will get many people here arguing I'm wrong and many saying they have done it and nothing happened.


The Spanish and UK tax authorities, nowadays, talk to each other so you can no longer play one off against the other.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> The Spanish and UK tax authorities, nowadays, talk to each other so you can no longer play one off against the other.


I wonder how that will fare in a no deal exit?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

MataMata said:


> I wonder how that will fare in a no deal exit?


The automatic exchange of financial information is an OECD thing, nothing to do with EU membership, so in theory it shouldn't make any difference.

https://www.oecd.org/tax/automaticexchange.htm


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

MataMata said:


> In parallel to the topic of health insurance for residency it's worth pointing out that post Dec 31st. and now deprived of the comfort blanket of an EHIC, the travel insurance visitors will need will be subject to similar exclusions for pre-existing conditions meaning that those who choose to travel anyway could be placing themselves at risk of potentially bankrupting medical bills.


When applying for travel insurance you have to put where you are travelling to.
All I can see happening is that travel insurance to the EU after Dec will become the same as every where else.

Ive travelled for fun and work to something like 40 plus countries and I have world wide travel insurance. None come with "potentially bankrupting medical bills" and Im pretty sure I would have seen that term. 

I think last year the difference in cost from an Eu travel policy to the world wide one was something like £30 for the year.


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

They have?
£32.000 per year income
Full Health Insurance (no Copay)
I Was hoping to get over there this October to apply for residency via renting.
I am 65! still all above applies after 31/Dec/20.


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Keithtoon said:


> Hi,
> I have been doing a lot of research on this website..
> Will post name but might end up in the village square having mouldy fruit thrown at me .... here goes!
> www.healthplanspain.com


That's the one we're looking at but it's a bit pricey. 
We're 65 & 62 and it's quoting €255 for both of us per month, with no pre-existing. (Mas Salud Family).

Anybody know of any cheaper which would be acceptable for residencia applications in Alicante province?


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

trotter58 said:


> That's the one we're looking at but it's a bit pricey.
> We're 65 & 62 and it's quoting €255 for both of us per month, with no pre-existing. (Mas Salud Family).
> 
> Anybody know of any cheaper which would be acceptable for residencia applications in Alicante province?


Look at Aegon.es they have healthcare that is Ok (we have it and our solicitor has had other clients use it for residency) The only issue is that everything is in Spanish only, so unless you translate the pages (or you can read Spanish) you need someone to translate.

They are a little hard work to get the certificate and the cards (we are still waiting) but they have a good network (you can use the medical centre in Benidorm for treatment) Not sure what they are like to actually use as we aren't resident yet (was supposed to be but not going till next month now)

We arranged it through Santander as its attached to our bank accounts. It was €620 for the year each. 

Otherwise the next cheapest we found was with Sanitas at €190 a month for the 2 of us.

Once we have been resident for the year we will sign on the Convenio Especial which is 60 a month for under 65s then 157 a month after (and when we get to 67 we will get our S1)


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Barriej said:


> Look at Aegon.es they have healthcare that is Ok (we have it and our solicitor has had other clients use it for residency) The only issue is that everything is in Spanish only, so unless you translate the pages (or you can read Spanish) you need someone to translate.
> 
> They are a little hard work to get the certificate and the cards (we are still waiting) but they have a good network (you can use the medical centre in Benidorm for treatment) Not sure what they are like to actually use as we aren't resident yet (was supposed to be but not going till next month now)
> 
> ...


I did a Google search 'private health insurance for spain visa' with a view to finding other possible plans. It brought up lots of results that could be used as a comparison.


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

trotter58 said:


> That's the one we're looking at but it's a bit pricey.
> We're 65 & 62 and it's quoting €255 for both of us per month, with no pre-existing. (Mas Salud Family).
> 
> Anybody know of any cheaper which would be acceptable for residencia applications in Alicante province?


Take a look at Salus: SALUS Seguros de Salud. Seguros médicos de calidad
My wife and I are in our mid/late sixties and pay in total €200 a month although we were originally with El Perpetuo Socorro which was taken over by Salus a few years ago, so that might make a difference. We have to pay a €2 fee each time we see a doctor or have medical treatment which I don't think applies to new Salus clients.


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Joppa said:


> For Spanish residents, it will only impact on journeys between UK and a Schengen country. As they are already in Schengen, there are no immigration formalities when moving around Schengen and back to Spain, which encompasses most of Western Europe plus a few other countries.


I'm sorry but I'm a bit confused here.....So if a British passport holder, with Spanish residency, visits the UK then, as British passport holders, are they subject to Schengen rules on their return? and would this mean they only stay in Spain for 90 days out of 180 days?

AFAIK They won't need a Schengen visa waiver for their trip to the UK but will require one for their return to Spain. What would happen if they made another return trip 91 days later? Surely that would go against the Schengen rules......My head hurts!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

trotter58 said:


> I'm sorry but I'm a bit confused here.....So if a British passport holder, with Spanish residency, visits the UK then, as British passport holders, are they subject to Schengen rules on their return? and would this mean they only stay in Spain for 90 days out of 180 days?
> 
> AFAIK They won't need a Schengen visa waiver for their trip to the UK but will require one for their return to Spain. What would happen if they made another return trip 91 days later? Surely that would go against the Schengen rules......My head hurts!


With Spanish residency, they are subject to Schengen rule of 90-in-180 days anywhere in Schengen area *except *in Spain. If they fly direct to Spain from UK, they will probably get Schengen entry stamp (with arrow facing inwards) but their TIE/registration certificate exempts them from Schengen rule. So from January, make sure you show your passport and residence document at the border.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Joppa said:


> trotter58 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry but I'm a bit confused here.....So if a British passport holder, with Spanish residency, visits the UK then, as British passport holders, are they subject to Schengen rules on their return? and would this mean they only stay in Spain for 90 days out of 180 days?
> ...


But we will still be entering through non EU line I think ,so I am not sure the registration will be asked for


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Barriej said:


> .......
> 
> 
> Otherwise the next cheapest we found was with Sanitas at €190 a month for the 2 of us.


Thanks Barrie, I think that Healthplanspain and Sanitas are the same company. Then again maybe not because that's a great price.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

kaipa said:


> But we will still be entering through non EU line I think ,so I am not sure the registration will be asked for


Even if they don't ask for it, show it to them 

You know, when I travel in and out of Schengen I often show 2 passports (or a passport and an ID card), one EU - Schengen as it happens, but it was previusly my UK passport) and the other relevant to the country I have travelled from - I have never had a complaint from passport control. So for you, your UK passport and your Spain registration 

But you know, those of us who have multiple nationality know that you need to enter and leave each country with appropriate documentation for that country.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

As far as I have read you wont be asked for any more documentation than a passport. There is nothing about needing registration documents that I can see. The TIE or green card are not ID documents


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

EverHopeful said:


> But you know, those of us who have multiple nationality know that you need to enter and leave each country with appropriate documentation for that country.


I have two nationalities and often travel using both providing the API is correct. I have used my Irish passport to leave and return but have very often Shown my U.K. Passport at border control at LHR\LGW. 

I always, even now, have my residency green card to hand to show at border control on spain should the need arise, not really difficult. 

I count my self fortunate to have dual citizenship. It allows me to travel around Europe and should we ever desire to live elsewhere, although that’s not a thought.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kaipa said:


> As far as I have read you wont be asked for any more documentation than a passport. There is nothing about needing registration documents that I can see. The TIE or green card are not ID documents


The TIE can be used as ID in most cases as it has a photo. The green card or certificate cannot because there is no photo. This is one reason why it's beneficial to have it.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> > As far as I have read you wont be asked for any more documentation than a passport. There is nothing about needing registration documents that I can see. The TIE or green card are not ID documents
> ...


Are you sure the UK TIE is an official identification document in Spain? I was told only the Spanish card with NIF is official


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kaipa said:


> Are you sure the UK TIE is an official identification document in Spain? I was told only the Spanish card with NIF is official


 What is a UK TIE? TIE for me is a* Tarjeta de Identificacion Extranjero*, a Spanish document. What do you mean by "the Spanish card with NIF"?
Yes, it is used for ID



> Dicha Tarjeta *acredita la permanencia legal de los extranjeros en España*, * su identificación* y que se ha concedido, de acuerdo con la normativa vigente, la autorización o reconocido el derecho para permanecer en territorio español por un tiempo superior a seis meses.


From the Ministerio del Interior website Tarjeta de identidad de extranjero - Ministerio del Interior


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

What I meant was , I THINK the TIE we get will specify that we have existing EU rights prior to Dec 31st. If not how will employers differentiate between those who retain the rights to work from those with TIEs ,for example Russians have, which if under 2 years prevents them from working?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

By NIF , I meant the identity cards Spanish nationals carry. I know they aren't called NIF but the point I was making is that both cards looks similar but I thought that only thr Spanish one was official ID card. However, I stand corrected


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kaipa said:


> What I meant was , I THINK the TIE we get will specify that we have existing EU rights prior to Dec 31st. If not how will employers differentiate between those who retain the rights to work from those with TIEs ,for example Russians have, which if under 2 years prevents them from working?


 I _think_ they say on it _residencia y trabajo_ and if it's only for residence, well it only says _residencia._
The cards Spaniards carry is their DNI, and the number on it is their _numero de identificacion _(my computer seems to have given up putting accents for some reason...)


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> > What I meant was , I THINK the TIE we get will specify that we have existing EU rights prior to Dec 31st. If not how will employers differentiate between those who retain the rights to work from those with TIEs ,for example Russians have, which if under 2 years prevents them from working?
> ...


Yes that's what I meant DNI.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

kaipa said:


> What I meant was , I THINK the TIE we get will specify that we have existing EU rights prior to Dec 31st. If not how will employers differentiate between those who retain the rights to work from those with TIEs ,for example Russians have, which if under 2 years prevents them from working?


TIE given to Britons who are beneficiary of the Withdrawal Agreement will say on the front that it's issued in accordance with Article 50 of the Treaty on the European Union (Brexit), and under Observations, it mentions Article 18.4 of the WA, which talks about the issuance of residence document. It's possible that there may be a visual distinction from TIE issued to third-country nationals, such as a different colour background. For example, TIE to non-EU citizens has a green background, while TIE given to family member of EU citizen has a pink background.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

I think the (new) TIE will be in accordance with the common card agreed by the EU (provided that in Spain you apply for the new card) 
https://www.politico.eu/article/brits-in-the-eu-common-residence-card-biometric-residence-documen/


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## ThinkingaboutSpain (Sep 6, 2020)

If you are a Canadian Citizen, for example, and your spouse, who is also Canadian, has gone and obtained their EU Citizenship and you move to Europe, is it that in the first five years you have to either obtain private health care or pay into the Spanish health care system and that after 5 years you can become a permanent resident and, at that point, you automatically qualify for Spanish Healthcare?

Also, what should a couple expect to pay for private health care in general? Around 2500 euro annually?


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

ThinkingaboutSpain said:


> If you are a Canadian Citizen, for example, and your spouse, who is also Canadian, has gone and obtained their EU Citizenship and you move to Europe, is it that in the first five years you have to either obtain private health care or pay into the Spanish health care system and that after 5 years you can become a permanent resident and, at that point, you automatically qualify for Spanish Healthcare?
> 
> Also, what should a couple expect to pay for private health care in general? Around 2500 euro annually?


You will need comprehensive health insurance in order to obtain residency. It can be private, or public (which you get if you work in Spain). After one year of residency you can pay into the Spanish healthcare system. 

You don't qualify for Spanish Healthcare once you're a permanent resident. You only qualify if you pay into the system, either as a worker or through the convenio especial (the pay-in scheme). Dependents of workers also qualify for Spanish healthcare.

The average cost of private health care depends on your age and your general health. If you're under age 65 and have no pre-existing conditions it can be as cheap as 50€/month/person.


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

kalohi said:


> You will need comprehensive health insurance in order to obtain residency. It can be private, or public (which you get if you work in Spain). After one year of residency you can pay into the Spanish healthcare system.
> 
> You don't qualify for Spanish Healthcare once you're a permanent resident. You only qualify if you pay into the system, either as a worker or through the convenio especial (the pay-in scheme). Dependents of workers also qualify for Spanish healthcare.
> 
> The average cost of private health care depends on your age and your general health. If you're under age 65 and have no pre-existing conditions it can be as cheap as 50€/month/person.


Yes. Agree with this. Becoming a permanent resident does not qualify you for free Spanish healthcare per se.
You need to be working, or have an S1 certificate from the UK or are a dependent of a Spanish worker.
There is also the Convenio Especial which I think you can pay into after you have been a resident for a year and have no other healthcare.


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

Joppa said:


> TIE given to Britons who are beneficiary of the Withdrawal Agreement will say on the front that it's issued in accordance with Article 50 of the Treaty on the European Union (Brexit), and under Observations, it mentions Article 18.4 of the WA, which talks about the issuance of residence document. It's possible that there may be a visual distinction from TIE issued to third-country nationals, such as a different colour background. For example, TIE to non-EU citizens has a green background, while TIE given to family member of EU citizen has a pink background.



I have my new TIE card in front of me..

On the front of the card it says (in my case) Tarjeta de Residencia Permanente.

Type of permit: Permanente. Articulo 50 TUE

On the reverse it says: Emitido Bajo Art 18.4 Acuerdo Retirada...in English "issued under article 18.4 of the withdrawal agreement"

The card is what I would describe as a predominantly bluish colour.

I was trying to upload it so you can see....but it doesn´t seem to work.


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## ThinkingaboutSpain (Sep 6, 2020)

Thank you so much for your clarification. Cheers.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

I was told by my insurance broker we had to both pay for repatriation as an add on as this is required for my wife's TIE and if one on the policy has it all on the policy have to have it. Anybody else told they need this?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Roy C said:


> I was told by my insurance broker we had to both pay for repatriation as an add on as this is required for my wife's TIE and if one on the policy has it all on the policy have to have it. Anybody else told they need this?


What if you don't want to be repatriated?


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

Catalunya22 said:


> Yes. Agree with this. Becoming a permanent resident does not qualify you for free Spanish healthcare per se.
> You need to be working, or have an S1 certificate from the UK or are a dependent of a Spanish worker.
> There is also the Convenio Especial which I think you can pay into after you have been a resident for a year and have no other healthcare.


Not sure if this is correct. According to these links you can get Spanish healthcare once you are a permanent resident in Spain......

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthca...0INSS office.

"_If you’re a permanent resident

If you’ve been a resident in Spain for 5 years or more, you can apply for permanent residency. This will give you access to state healthcare on the same basis as a Spanish citizen.

Once you’re a permanent resident, you need to register for healthcare at your local INSS office. They will give you a document which you need to take to your local health centre.

If the UK pays for your healthcare, for example through an S1 form, you cannot register for healthcare as a permanent resident._"

https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp...intPageId=4791

"_Be employed or self-employed and be affiliated and a contributor to the Spanish Social Security System. You can also be assured if you are a pensioner, a beneficiary of any regular social security benefit or unemployed, having exhausted the unemployment benefits or allowances, and reside in Spain.

*If you are a legally permanent resident (irrespective of your nationality), you can also be insured if you do not have other health coverage*._"

Do you have any links that indicate that you cannot access Spanish healthcare once you are a permanent resident. I think that this is more of an EU requirement than a Spanish one.


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

Roy C said:


> I was told by my insurance broker we had to both pay for repatriation as an add on as this is required for my wife's TIE and if one on the policy has it all on the policy have to have it. Anybody else told they need this?




I think your broker is pulling a fast one to get more commission.
Repatriation is not a requirement as part of health insurance for a TIE.
You can be buried/cremated in Spain.


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

trotter58 said:


> Not sure if this is correct. According to these links you can get Spanish healthcare once you are a permanent resident in Spain......
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthca...0INSS office.
> 
> ...



I don´t have a link. I´ve seen it somewhere but can´t remember where.
As part of the TIE process you have to prove medical insurance so that you are not a burden on the Spanish system. That´s why I don´t think you will get free Spanish healthcare whether you have a 5 year TIE or a permanent ten year TIE.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

trotter58 said:


> Not sure if this is correct. According to these links you can get Spanish healthcare once you are a permanent resident in Spain......
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthca...0INSS office.
> 
> ...



The Spanish government doesn't seem to agree that 5 years residency gives free access to healthcare. 

The UK Consulate has been saying it for ages, as has the EC one - but it just doesn't work that way in Spain! 

I'm in touch with many admins of many groups & pressure groups. Not one of us has ever come across anyone who actually has free healthcare simply for being a permanent resident. 

Some comunidades do offer healthcare to all residents - but few. Access to healthcare is controlled at comunidad level.


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

Xabiaxica should know. He knows most things.
As he says, things don´t work like that in Spain and a Permanent Resident card won´t give you free healthcare.
Fortunately I don´t have to worry about that as I am covered under the Spanish Healthcare system by the fact i am married to a Spaniard and covered as a dependent of them.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Xabiaxica is a she (xica = chica = girl).


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

Joppa said:


> Xabiaxica is a she (xica = chica = girl).


OK. Thanks for letting me know


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## Keithtoon (May 7, 2015)

Hi all,
Thank you for your input.
We will just have to wait till BREXIT is done and then see what the future holds. As i have said we can not move to Spain until May 2021. Any plans we make now will have to be in 2021. No one knows what the answers will be till then. # Stay 90 days, free Health Care, increase in UK Gov pension etc etc....


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

xabiaxica said:


> The Spanish government doesn't seem to agree that 5 years residency gives free access to healthcare.
> 
> The UK Consulate has been saying it for ages, as has the EC one - but it just doesn't work that way in Spain!
> 
> ...


I suppose that's true.... 
In our area we have non residents who have signed on the padron and make use of temporary sipp cards, using benefits that they are not entitled to. This may change after 31st December, then again, maybe not.

There are plenty of local gestors that advertise that they can assist with the application for a permanent sipp.....https://advisorscostablanca.com/sip-card-spain/#:~:text=What is a temporary SIP,need to pay for it.

I would be surprised if Spain, as a member of the EU, wouldn't offer healthcare to permanent, tax paying residents. I've yet to see any evidence that they have refused anyone.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I think this is like the debate a few years ago about Universal Health care. Despite lots of people arguing about the law the end result was that Brits still didn't get it free ( andulacia apparently cancelled convenio- bit I think there were reinstated). There was an American póster on here who did a lot of research into it ( contacting various departments) but concluded it was not actually available for him. So I guess that was a case of someone with more than 5 years residency but still able to get free healthcare


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kaipa said:


> I think this is like the debate a few years ago about Universal Health care. Despite lots of people arguing about the law the end result was that Brits still didn't get it free ( andulacia apparently cancelled convenio- bit I think there were reinstated). There was an American póster on here who did a lot of research into it ( contacting various departments) but concluded it was not actually available for him. So I guess that was a case of someone with more than 5 years residency but still able to get free healthcare


Do you mean 'unable to get free healthcare'?

I remember his posts. He never did get it.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

xabiaxica said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> > I think this is like the debate a few years ago about Universal Health care. Despite lots of people arguing about the law the end result was that Brits still didn't get it free ( andulacia apparently cancelled convenio- bit I think there were reinstated). There was an American póster on here who did a lot of research into it ( contacting various departments) but concluded it was not actually available for him. So I guess that was a case of someone with more than 5 years residency but still able to get free healthcare
> ...


Yes. My typing


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

The uk.gov website states that if you have been a resident for more than 5 years in Spain then you qualify for free healthcare.
This is INCORRECT information....where do they get that from?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Catalunya22 said:


> The uk.gov website states that if you have been a resident for more than 5 years in Spain then you qualify for free healthcare.
> This is INCORRECT information....where do they get that from?


_In theory_ there is universal free healthcare in Spain. Central government passed this law in 2018.

https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/gobierno/news/Paginas/2018/20180906universalhealthca.aspx

BUT because healthcare is devolved to the regions, they can tweak the details to suit their own policies. Nonetheless, nobody can be refused emergency treatment because they don't have insurance or whatever, no matter how long they've lived here.


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

Alcalaina said:


> _In theory_ there is universal free healthcare in Spain. Central government passed this law in 2018.
> 
> https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/gobierno/news/Paginas/2018/20180906universalhealthca.aspx
> 
> BUT because healthcare is devolved to the regions, they can tweak the details to suit their own policies.



Like everything here...they make it up as they go along.

In relation to applying for a TIE, some places will do it without a Padron certificate...and other places (like Barcelona) refuse you without a Padron certificate.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Catalunya22 said:


> Like everything here...they make it up as they go along.
> 
> In relation to applying for a TIE, some places will do it without a Padron certificate...and other places (like Barcelona) refuse you without a Padron certificate.


 They make it suit their region according to what they think is right and they are able to do that, and do it legally.
It's not what British people are used to, nor Americans nor many other countries, but it's what it is.


Personally, I wonder if there will be moves towards a centralised "book of rules" in some areas of health care in light of problems that have come up related to the pandemic.
If there are moves in this direction it will be hotly debated and will move slowly, so no big changes for at least 10 years I would think.


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

Pesky Wesky said:


> They make it suit their region according to what they think is right and they are able to do that, and do it legally.
> It's not what British people are used to, nor Americans nor many other countries, but it's what it is.
> 
> 
> ...



Yes. I guess I haven´t got used to the fact that each country does things differently. I need to change my mind-set and stop comparing everything to the UK.
As you say, I need to accept the fact that it is what it is.


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## Catalunya22 (Apr 25, 2020)

Catalunya22 said:


> Yes. I guess I haven´t got used to the fact that each country does things differently. I need to change my mind-set and stop comparing everything to the UK.
> As you say, I need to accept the fact that it is what it is.


I don´t know.
Not that I´m a supporter of PSOE or Podemos, but I think any rule changes on health are more likely to come from a left of centre Government.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Catalunya22 said:


> Yes. I guess I haven´t got used to the fact that each country does things differently. I need to change my mind-set and stop comparing everything to the UK.
> As you say, I need to accept the fact that it is what it is.


Think of the Spanish regions as equivalent to England, N. Ireland, Scotland and Wales in the UK. They have a certain degree of autonomy over things like health and social care but still have to follow laws made centrally at Westminster.


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