# what made you choose location in Canada?



## Clogs (May 11, 2010)

Hi all, this is my first time posting, so apologies for any questions that might have been answered already! 

I have a 1 year working holiday visa and intend travelling to Canada in early 2011. I cannot decide between locations - Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal - so I have a couple of questions: 

1. For people who didn't already have a job lined up, and perhaps didn't have contacts in Canada, what ultimately made you decide where to travel? My main criteria - for now - are climate, landscape and job opps. From what I've read, Vancouver wins for the first two (personally) but the third, possibly not so much. (My background is in writing/editing for over 10 years, so not a particular professional or 'skilled worker'.)

2. If any of you originally came to Canada on working holiday visas (from Ireland), did you wait until you arrived in Canada to seriously look for jobs? I take it that's more realistic from the perspective of interviews, being contactable and so on? Or is it better to at least have made initial contact before you travel? I've started reading a book on emigrating to Canada and intend looking up the recruitment agency sites it has listed, but maybe that's not enough... 

It's all a bit confusing - whether to seriously suss out job opps and then decide where to go or pick a location and make the most of it?!  I did the round the world thing nearly 10 years ago, but this feels like a whole different ball game after working in same job for over 6 years!

I fancy a complete change from where I am now and fear that if I go by job opps alone, I'll end up in regular 'big city' without feeling like I'm getting fully different experience...

Looking forward to any replies. I just discovered this forum last week and have already found it really useful! 

Thanks!


----------



## DXB971 (Sep 8, 2009)

What kind of job r u looking for? What type of city/experiene r u into? Montreal has a European flavour but Toronto is more like a mini-New York


----------



## Clogs (May 11, 2010)

DXB971 said:


> What kind of job r u looking for? What type of city/experiene r u into? Montreal has a European flavour but Toronto is more like a mini-New York


Job-wise, I'm kind of open - well, communications/publications work ideally to start with rather than bar/restaurant work - but don't mind a bit of a change from what I've been doing, as I'm thinking of changing careers over the next few years (studying to work in psychology). 

I'm looking for a city that's near amazing scenery, doesn't get too humid (or completely off the charts freezing for months and months), has a pretty good transport system and plenty of stuff going on - gigs, exhibitions, cool markets, bars and so on. Too much to ask?! Have (rusty) French, so not ruling out Montreal completely, and have heard it's lovely, but coming from Europe I'd perhaps like something a bit different...


----------



## DXB971 (Sep 8, 2009)

I've only visited Vancouver for a short time so I can't give you an informed opinion about it. I highly recommend Toronto though, especially the downtown/midtown area. but it has sub-zero temperature in the winter + snow so I don't know how you feel about that... 



Clogs said:


> Job-wise, I'm kind of open - well, communications/publications work ideally to start with rather than bar/restaurant work - but don't mind a bit of a change from what I've been doing, as I'm thinking of changing careers over the next few years (studying to work in psychology).
> 
> I'm looking for a city that's near amazing scenery, doesn't get too humid (or completely off the charts freezing for months and months), has a pretty good transport system and plenty of stuff going on - gigs, exhibitions, cool markets, bars and so on. Too much to ask?! Have (rusty) French, so not ruling out Montreal completely, and have heard it's lovely, but coming from Europe I'd perhaps like something a bit different...


----------



## scharlack (Nov 21, 2008)

Clogs said:


> Job-wise, I'm kind of open - well, communications/publications work ideally to start with rather than bar/restaurant work - but don't mind a bit of a change from what I've been doing, as I'm thinking of changing careers over the next few years (studying to work in psychology).
> 
> I'm looking for a city that's near amazing scenery, doesn't get too humid (or completely off the charts freezing for months and months), has a pretty good transport system and plenty of stuff going on - gigs, exhibitions, cool markets, bars and so on. Too much to ask?! Have (rusty) French, so not ruling out Montreal completely, and have heard it's lovely, but coming from Europe I'd perhaps like something a bit different...


Hey,

I moved to Toronto because my wife and I work with IT and Toronto is great for IT business. Am I going to stay here forever? Don't know!

If I were you I would look around the Canadian job ad sites (Workopolis and Monster Canada, for example) and see if you can get an idea on where you could possibly get a job/interview... 

You can always move from one city to another if you don't like the place you live.

Vancouver is rainy and humid but the winter is somewhat mild compared to Toronto.

Public transportation here is not bad, but far from European standards.

Cheers


----------



## the drifter (May 21, 2010)

Clogs said:


> Job-wise, I'm kind of open - well, communications/publications work ideally to start with rather than bar/restaurant work - but don't mind a bit of a change from what I've been doing, as I'm thinking of changing careers over the next few years (studying to work in psychology).
> 
> *I'm looking for a city that's near amazing scenery, doesn't get too humid (or completely off the charts freezing for months and months), has a pretty good transport system and plenty of stuff going on - gigs, exhibitions, cool markets, bars and so on.* Too much to ask?! Have (rusty) French, so not ruling out Montreal completely, and have heard it's lovely, but coming from Europe I'd perhaps like something a bit different...


Hi there Clogs,

Essentially, what you are describing in the bold font above is....Vancouver!! I've never actually been to Canada but I am going soon and if you don't want freezing cold for months and months then you are pretty much ruling out the entire nation of Canada apart from the west coast  

I hear really great things about Vancouver. Chilled out, modern, beautiful scenery, highest standard of living in the world - constantly rated as such year after year in the world rankings - no.1 this year again in the UN index I think. Lots of culture and oceans of things to do - especially outdoors since they actually get summers!

What would only slightly put me off Toronto is the weather - humid in summer apparently and freezing in winter. Plus I want to be on the Pacific coast  I also want to be able to travel easily down to places like Seattle, and cities in California 

Montreal could def be a good option though - supposed to be like a European city in North America, plenty of culture too. 

There's a site called paddysaway. com where you will get more tips - a community of expats dedicated to Canada and Australia is starting up there too on the forum so you could post on there with questions or to look for opinions.


----------



## Samzar (Jun 24, 2008)

Toronto. 

The only reason I picked this was a friend of my brother lived here and he offered a corner in the room for a month to help a newcomer. 

And God, was it a good decision or a good decision. Loved the city entirely. What a melting pot. Beautiful cultures, beautiful people from all around the world, and educated as well. Plus, loads of opportunities for I.T. and Business professionals (can't say about other professions). 

Been 10 years now, and can't think about living anywhere else in Canada than GTA (Greater Toronto Area). Go Leafs Go!


----------



## watatatow (Mar 26, 2010)

Well, I'm originally from Montreal but now living in... Dublin.

To start things off, I've never been to the Canadian West Coast (sadly; it's a really huge country), so I can't answer too much regarding Vancouver.

Regarding your criteria, you seem to have many criteria. Climate, landscape, jobs, good public transit, and lots of civic life aka bars 7 markets & live music. Getting it all is really hard!

However, I can help narrow it down regarding Montreal, compared to Dublin (which according to the header is where you live currently).

1. The language issue. It is a misconception that you need French in Montreal. Yes, it does make life easier, yes there are language laws, but honestly there are many people that live there and do not speak French. Others that do not speak English. Others speak both as if it were their native language with no accent. It's a bilingual city. One of the four major newspapers is English (Montreal Gazette). Two of the four universities are English (20,000+ student body each). At Montreal Canadiens hockey games the announcements (and even the Canadian anthem) are in both languages.

Read the following column from a Montreal Gazette journalist on the etiquette of language in Montreal
www DOT joshfreed DOT ca/columns/quebecbilingualism.html

I mean, do learn the language, but do it for its own sake, you don't *need* to learn French.

2. Regarding scenery and wildlife, honestly, while I've only heard rave reviews of Vancouver, Toronto or Montreal are basically islands of civilisation surrounded by wilderness. The scenery is probably more extreme there, but you'll find different things in, say rural Quebec. You'll find something new and amazing in every part of North America particularly as most of it has been left wild. In Ireland, forests are extremely rare, but you'll find forests inside all Canadian cities. So while the overwhelming vote is that BC scenery is breathtaking, don't think that it's the only game in town.

3. Regarding climate, Montreal is probably the coldest and snowiest of the three, with very cold winters and hot and humid summers. Toronto has less snow, milder winters, and warmer summers. Vancouver doesn't have much snow (lots of rain though), and its weather is more maritime with less of the extremes of continental weather. All of them will have significantly more rain than Dublin (about 30% more) on a volume basis, except that contrary to Ireland when it rains it pours. 100mm of rain falling within an hour can happen. But all will be warmer and more humid than Ireland in summer, and colder & snowier than Ireland in winter (and the bus will be expected to work on schedule when it snows )

4. Job-wise, it is really difficult to evaluate the job market right now as things are changing fast due to the recession. Basically, it's still better than Ireland as the recession didn't hit as hard in Canada. Traditionally, Toronto is where the jobs are. Vancouver and Montreal are perhaps more difficult job-wise. My best friend happens to be a writer & editor (he's bilingual, but he prefers English to French from a writing standpoint), and had a miserable time finding work in Montreal. Another friend of his never bothered to learn French and this handicapped her search. In the end he moved to Ottawa to work for the government, hated it, and found himself a job back in Montreal working for a bank. He started three weeks ago.  My point is, there are jobs, but persistence is key. Bilingualism is a bonus, but not an end-all.

5. Regarding public transit, this depends strongly on where you live in the city. All three have subway systems (or a skytrain in Vancouver). They're all superior to Dublin's, and they work until about 1AM, but nowhere near to what you'd find in a typical European city. Montreal has suburban trains but other than rush-hour these are very infrequent (like once every 4 hours). Toronto's suburban trains are far superior in service frequency. Then again, if I were to live in Montreal / Vancouver / Toronto I'd live in the city in the urban neighbourhoods, not in the suburbs, as a lifestyle decision (and based on your next criteria of bars / markets I think this might suit you better as well, so suburban trains are rather secondary in that regard).

6. Nightlife and civic life. Toronto has a reputation for being a cold business town. Montreal has a reputation for being less productive and where people just want to have a good time. The stereotype of Toronto being boring by comparison is probably not as bad as that label suggests, but that's what many people say and I would tend to agree to a certain extent. So the next couple of paragraphs will give my impression of life in Montreal (and let others will you in regarding Toronto and Vancouver)

Me personally I'm biased, but I would say that specifically nightlife and civic life in Montreal is probably among the best in North America if not the world. It's that one thing that made living there so special and what I miss most here in Dublin. There are about 40 cinemas in the city, in both languages, many of which are open to 2AM, 4 of which are repertory cinemas. There are two major markets (Marché Atwater and Marché Jean-Talon); they're kind of like the English Market, only about 5-10 times bigger (and open on Sundays  ). Restaurant-wise, every city neighbourhood will have its own vibe and its own restaurants and its own minorities, and compared to Dublin will have much more variety of cuisines (though that's probably true of both Vancouver and Toronto as well, as immigrants are in all those cities). One thing about Montreal is that, as opposed to Toronto or Vancouver, it also has many foodstuffs and dishes that are distinctive to the city or province and that you just won't find anywhere else. People eat out a lot, and because it's cheap you can afford doing so 2 times a week (in Dublin I can only afford it once or twice a month).

Montreal has a reputation of being the sin city of Northeastern America. Drinking age is 18 (lowest in Canada), bars and clubs close at 3AM and are concentrated along several "party streets" with numerous live acts, jazz bars, etc. Lots of strip joints too that are unashamed in their neon billboard advertising, and they are everywhere especially on the main commercial street, and cater both to male and female perverted urges of all orientations  . I write this as it's a distinctive feature of the city, especially compared to Dublin where all of this is not in the open, to give an idea of the attitudes.

Also, during the summer festivals, it's basically three months of one major festival after another, with numerous free concerts and shows and even more pay concerts. The free shows are nothing to sneeze at either: last year's Jazz Fest featured Stevie Wonder just days after his good friend Michael Jackson died, in front of 200,000 people, for free, in the city centre (and no scumbags ruining it for everyone else, they don't really exist in Canada). 

There's also something like 400 km of bike paths criss-crossing the city, completely separated from sidewalks or roads. It's one of the most bike-friendly cities in the world. Next to useless in winter though!

# # # # #

So, basically, if considering life in Montreal, I'd worry about finding work, there just aren't as many jobs as in Toronto. Don't know as much about Vancouver. Montreal's also a really cold place in winter. I don't think any of these cities would be a bad choice, but they are indeed very different. I hope this cleared a few things up.


PS: one negative about living in Toronto is that you'll have to cheer for the Maple Leafs, which can be a depressing experience over the long run


----------



## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Personally the main thing you gain on the west coast is the Rockies. The mountains in Quebec are much lower and compared to the rockies are hills.


You need to decide what sort of landscape you want. From both Toronto and montreal you can get to large national parks that the average European country would get lost in. 


Weather? You'll be inside most of the winter in the eastern cities. 

Under the holiday visa aren't you only working six monts and traveling six? If so I'd work in Toronto spring/fall and then travel.

Quebec girls are great.

You can cheer the habs in TO. might be more hab fans in Toronto .

Don't think travelling is like Europe. Dublin to Rome isn't much of a trip in European terms. Distances are much further in North America.


----------



## the drifter (May 21, 2010)

watatatow said:


> Well, I'm originally from Montreal but now living in... Dublin.
> 
> To start things off, I've never been to the Canadian West Coast (sadly; it's a really huge country), so I can't answer too much regarding Vancouver.
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks for the fantastic post! I'm planning on a move to Vancouver but you've nearly sold me on Montreal now!! Maybe I'll have to do both....

In Dublin now ay - must be a bit of a let-down for you compared to Canada


----------



## jenns027 (May 31, 2010)

I live in Vancouver 

Be careful, the job market here is tough. Sorry if you've already said what job you're looking for or if you have a job already, but in case you're coming to look for a job, people here are struggling to secure work. It might pick up in the next 2-3 years as the economy improves.

It is beautiful here. The scenery is awesome, there are tons of day trips you can do, it's very easy to dip down to the states to do some shopping and stuff too.

Vancouver's living expenses are the highest of Canadian cities. But I suspect that's quoted from living directly in Vancouver, the suburbs surrounding it aren't that bad.

Nightlife here SUCKS. It just does. Everything closes early and transit shuts down even earlier, making going out to a club one night kinda a hassle because you then have to make your way home on the milk run known as the night bus...

I have to say, think about Montreal! My friend moved there recently and she LOVES it. She did still have a hard time breaking into the job market, but I think that's a given anywhere in Canada. But she says there is way more festivals, night life, her facebook is filled with awesome pictures of things she's done there (many of which are free!).

Not to knock Vancouver, there is still stuff to do here, it just seems like much more in Montreal.


----------



## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

I am very familiar with Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal. Vancouver wins hands down according to your criteria. It is by far the most scenic of the 3 and the climate is not nearly as extreme. However, it does rain a lot which can get pretty depressing.


----------



## Clogs (May 11, 2010)

Hi,

Thanks so much to everyone who chipped in replies to my question, especially watatow - that detailed answer was impressive  Brave decision coming to Dublin - although it's my home city, I'm keen for a change. 

I settled on Toronto in the end - flying out at the end of January, so know I'm heading at the coldest time. Figured I'd try it out and can move elsewhere if I need to - the jobs and multicultural thing swung it for me, but still open to possibility of Montreal and will, I hope, get to see Vancouver at some stage. I spent seven months in Australia as part of my travels nearly 10 years ago, so know what long distances are like and don't have any major 'road trip' notions  Getting excited now that I've made up my mind, but I may be back with more questions over the next while!


----------



## watatatow (Mar 26, 2010)

Hi Clogs,

Again, Toronto, not a bad decision. I mean, most of Canada makes fun of it for one reason or another (especially its hockey team) but you won't be bored there, especially compared to Dublin. BTW, when picking where to live, don't lose sight of the fact that it is indeed quite a large city in terms of area. The downtown area alone is larger than Dublin 1 through 8.

BTW, I wasn't trying to sell you on Montreal, I was just writing what came to mind on a topic that I know... it's only later I found out how long the whole thing was 

One tip though, find yourself a few Paddies to go on sessions with. Canadians do drink, but the pub is not the centre of community life like it is in Dublin, so it might be hard to adjust if you don't have friends that you an go wild with every now and then (if you're into drinking; I'm not trying to pander to stereotype, just to give an example the biggest concern my coworkers had when I started here in Dublin was knowing whether I drank alcohol or not)

So enjoy your time, and good luck!


----------



## the drifter (May 21, 2010)

Clogs said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks so much to everyone who chipped in replies to my question, especially watatow - that detailed answer was impressive  Brave decision coming to Dublin - although it's my home city, I'm keen for a change.
> 
> I settled on Toronto in the end - flying out at the end of January, so know I'm heading at the coldest time. Figured I'd try it out and can move elsewhere if I need to - the jobs and multicultural thing swung it for me, but still open to possibility of Montreal and will, I hope, get to see Vancouver at some stage. I spent seven months in Australia as part of my travels nearly 10 years ago, so know what long distances are like and don't have any major 'road trip' notions  Getting excited now that I've made up my mind, but I may be back with more questions over the next while!


Cool, Toronto should be a good bet for you, and as you said you can always move around. Wrap up warm in January though!

Let us know how your plans for the move are going throughout the year.


----------



## telcoman (Feb 11, 2010)

Vancouver for me wins hands down. Where else can you ski & sail in the same day? Scenery is spectacular, now it has has 3 rapid transit lines, transportation is good. Jobs are good depending on economic conditions. Alberta is probably a lot better, but Vancouver is large enough to have pretty much everything. Night life is better in Toronto & Montreal. I have lived in Toronto. Never happy there, always felt like it was too hard to get out of the urban jungle and it does not have the laid back atmosphere you find in Vancouver..

Vancouver is rainy Nov through March, but you seldom have to shovel it.


----------



## louiseg (Nov 17, 2007)

Interesting thread with lots of great info. I think this topic covers one of the agonizing decisions we all have to make. Where do you start in such a huge country with such a diverse climate, cultural and set of opportunities.
We came on vacation to one area, really liked it and stayed whilst I love it here I don't think its the ideal way to do it. Here's my 5 step plan for finding to ideal location:

1. Brainstorm and write down all the things you want from your new location, and why they are important. 

2. Split up the list into categories, lifestyle, financially, activities, shelter, whatever works for you.

3. Prioritize by must haves, nice to have and not really required.

4. Be realistic - make such you calculate what finances you are going to need, what work opportunities you must be close to etc.

5. Now with a targeted list of requirements you can start researching locations that fit you criteria. 

You can then make more use of the forums by asking specific questions. Its much easier for posters to answer questions like: does x have good hiking and biking trails?, or whats the average price 3 bed single family home in x? you also then are basing decisions on your criteria rather than other peoples personal views about their own locations. Nothing wrong with opinions but they are just that based on what they like not what you like.

Cheers Louise


----------



## JohnSoCal (Sep 2, 2007)

louiseg said:


> Interesting thread with lots of great info. I think this topic covers one of the agonizing decisions we all have to make. Where do you start in such a huge country with such a diverse climate, cultural and set of opportunities.
> We came on vacation to one area, really liked it and stayed whilst I love it here I don't think its the ideal way to do it. Here's my 5 step plan for finding to ideal location:
> 
> 1. Brainstorm and write down all the things you want from your new location, and why they are important.
> ...


You are absolutely correct. That is what we did when researching where we wanted to retire.


----------

