# Voting Rights



## Shee (Feb 5, 2009)

Hi
New to the forum so be gentle with me!
My husband has got a job in Spain so we are moving out in April this yer - very excited!
My question relates to voting rights - if we both become Spanish residents do we both lose the right to vote in UK elections? Do we gain the right to vote in Spanish general elections?
We were thinking about keeping one of us resident in UK and one resident in Spain so that we still have voting etc. rights in UK - has anyone else done this?

Thanks for any help
Shee


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Shee said:


> Hi
> New to the forum so be gentle with me!
> My husband has got a job in Spain so we are moving out in April this yer - very excited!
> My question relates to voting rights - if we both become Spanish residents do we both lose the right to vote in UK elections? Do we gain the right to vote in Spanish general elections?
> ...


Hi!

Hope you enjoy using and being a member of the forum.

You can vote in local and European elections in Spain, and I think you can vote in the UK too. Look at this link from the FCO which has info from both countries.

Voting in Spain

PS Why do a lot of new members say "be gentle with me" or similar? What do they think we're going to do with them???!!!


----------



## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Shee said:


> Hi
> New to the forum so be gentle with me!
> My husband has got a job in Spain so we are moving out in April this yer - very excited!
> My question relates to voting rights - if we both become Spanish residents do we both lose the right to vote in UK elections? Do we gain the right to vote in Spanish general elections?
> ...


Hi, Shee & welcome. You retain the right to vote in UK general elections for 15 years after leaving. If you become a Spanish resident you will receive a form from the local council asking if you want to register for EC voting rights. If you do you cannot then vote in EC elections in the UK. You can't vote in Spanish general elections unless you become a Spanish citizen. Hope you enjoy it when you arrive.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

To keep the right to vote in UK elections you need to apply for inclusion on the Electoral Register in the Constituency where you were last enrolled. If I remember correctly, we wrote for the appropriate form to the Returning Officer of the District Council where we last lived in the UK. 
You then have to get your completed application signed by a UK Passport holding resident of the country to which you have relocated.


----------



## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Im not sure where the "IF" comes into it.

If you move to Spain then you have absolutely no choice but to register as a resident here, its the law here. By not doing so, you will be at risk.

And of course by registering here you are no longer a UK resident and lose your entitlement to UK health care and most benefits

You will no longer be allowed to vote in local elections in the UK, although you will be allowed to vote in General elections much as Gus says

Keeping one of you as a resident in the UK I am afraid is not a legal option in your circumstances.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> Im not sure where the "IF" comes into it.
> 
> If you move to Spain then you have absolutely no choice but to register as a resident here, its the law here. By not doing so, you will be at risk.
> 
> ...


What if you are resident in Spain for part of the year, have Residencia but also have a UK address and are on the UK electoral register?
I'm not sure but I think my son and daughter-in-law are in that situation, apart from being on the padron, which I thought was where your voting entitlement comes from. They have property here, spend a lot of time here but are mainly UK based.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> What if you are resident in Spain for part of the year, have Residencia but also have a UK address and are on the UK electoral register?
> I'm not sure but I think my son and daughter-in-law are in that situation, apart from being on the padron, which I thought was where your voting entitlement comes from. They have property here, spend a lot of time here but are mainly UK based.



Actually, I'm the same. I rarely go back to the UK, but nonetheless I have a house there 

Jo xxx


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> Actually, I'm the same. I rarely go back to the UK, but nonetheless I have a house there
> 
> Jo xxx


But are you on your local electoral register?


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> But are you on your local electoral register?


In England??? I guess so. I dont know if they've sent the new form thingy out, but if they havent yet then yes!????? and if they do, I might as well put my name on it?? Or is that illegal if I'm residencia in Spain


Jo xxx


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> In England??? I guess so. I dont know if they've sent the new form thingy out, but if they havent yet then yes!????? and if they do, I might as well put my name on it?? Or is that illegal if I'm residencia in Spain
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


That's what I was wondering. If it's illegal, what would the crime be?

Vote-stealing????

or

Improperly influencing the outcome of a democratic process???
That sounds posher..........


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> That's what I was wondering. If it's illegal, what would the crime be?
> 
> Vote-stealing????
> 
> ...


I'm sure that its allowed, afterall like it or not, we're still UK citizens with UK passports etc. In fact given the choice I think its more important to vote in the UK since thats where my income comes from - altho I'm not sure there's anyone worth voting for - they're all just varying shades of grey!!!!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> I'm sure that its allowed, afterall like it or not, we're still UK citizens with UK passports etc. In fact given the choice I think its more important to vote in the UK since thats where my income comes from - altho I'm not sure there's anyone worth voting for - they're all just varying shades of grey!!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


I don't see how anyone could check if you voted in two places anyway. 
Like you, I couldn't be bothered to vote and didn't reapply for an overseas vote. 
After being intensely politically involved for most of my life since Uni I am now interested only in a remote, objective kind of way.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> I'm sure that its allowed, afterall like it or not, we're still UK citizens with UK passports etc. In fact given the choice I think its more important to vote in the UK since thats where my income comes from - altho I'm not sure there's anyone worth voting for - they're all just varying shades of grey!!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


I see your point, but I do find it a bit wierd that you can have been living abroad for ages, yet can still vote in the UK. If I was living the UK I would be outraged that someone like me could vote there.
However I would like to be able to vote here and that's one of the reasons that I'll be trying to get Spanish nationality this year. Then I won't be able to come on here cos I won't be British anymore!!


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I see your point, but I do find it a bit wierd that you can have been living abroad for ages, yet can still vote in the UK. If I was living the UK I would be outraged that someone like me could vote there.
> However I would like to be able to vote here and that's one of the reasons that I'll be trying to get Spanish nationality this year. Then I won't be able to come on here cos I won't be British anymore!!


yes, we'd have to ban you immediately PW!!!!!!! (as if  lol) I know what you're saying and its right for you. Whether I'm right or wrong tho, my income comes from the UK, I won a house there, I have children who are British - so in many ways we're inextricably linked to the UK and I still like to have some say. Maybe once we get more established here, I wont care what happens over there so much

Jo xxxx


----------



## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

This whole voting thing is interesting and would actually be of serious concern if just a few votes very often made any difference. 

But on principal I have a problem with close to full time residents in Spain voting in national and local UK elections. If not on democratic grounds then because the issues are discussed locally and a non resident cannot be uptodate with or view local issues as a resident. Further they are more likely to vote for short term disruption and long term gain.

But I have a bigger problem when the candidate doesn't live in the constituency 

As for Europe if I voted in Spain I might be tempted to vote for the worst economic policies that might lead to the devaluation of the Euro. Just at the moment I'd be spoilt for choice - bit like the UK and the pound


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> yes, we'd have to ban you immediately PW!!!!!!! (as if  lol) I know what you're saying and its right for you. Whether I'm right or wrong tho, *my income comes from the UK, I won a house there, I have children who are British - so in many ways we're inextricably linked to the UK and I still like to have some say*. Maybe once we get more established here, I wont care what happens over there so much
> 
> Jo xxxx


Oh yes, I agree with you Jo, but I think you know what I mean too. But I also think people have to know when to say enough is enough. 
BTW - *won* a house!???


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

nigele2 said:


> This whole voting thing is interesting and would actually be of serious concern if just a few votes very often made any difference.
> 
> But on principal I have a problem with close to full time residents in Spain voting in national and local UK elections. If not on democratic grounds then because the issues are discussed locally and a non resident cannot be uptodate with or view local issues as a resident. Further they are more likely to vote for short term disruption and long term gain.
> 
> ...


But what if you are resident here but pay a substantial amount of UK tax on earned and investment income? Surely you should have some influence over how your money is spent?
In a time where the actions of any Government are dictated largely by the global market, voting is a farce anyway.
Like you, I'd vote for lower taxes, a stronger £ and incredibly high interest rates.
I'm sick of subsidising the debts of those who took out loans and mortgages beyond their means.
When an investment of £100k returns you around £800 p.a. before tax at the current rate, what's the point in saving?


----------



## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> What if you are resident in Spain for part of the year, have Residencia but also have a UK address and are on the UK electoral register?
> I'm not sure but I think my son and daughter-in-law are in that situation, apart from being on the padron, which I thought was where your voting entitlement comes from. They have property here, spend a lot of time here but are mainly UK based.



You're not a British resident any more though. I have a UK home as well, but I'm a Spanish resident. therefore I cant vote in local elections there.

Your son, I'm not sure how long they live here for though.


----------



## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> But what if you are resident here but pay a substantial amount of UK tax on earned and investment income? Surely you should have some influence over how your money is spent?


You shouldnt be paying tax on investment income in the UK if you are a Spanish resident.

This is the whole point. You should be paying your tax here in Spain!


----------



## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> You will no longer be allowed to vote in local elections in the UK, although you will be allowed to vote in General elections much as Gus says


Voting in UK general elections stops after fifteen years. I lost my right to do so......some years back! 

Also, the only practical method is to vote by proxy -- the paperwork will reach you after the election if you try to vote by mail.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> You shouldnt be paying tax on investment income in the UK if you are a Spanish resident.
> 
> This is the whole point. You should be paying your tax here in Spain!


That depends on the type of investment and under which jurisdiction it is invested and taxed. 
Double Taxation Agreements apply more widely than people think.
A good accountant will advise you where you are best placed to avoid swingeing tax. 
As I posted in another thread, staying within the law to avoid high tax rates is sensible. Dodging tax is imo immoral.
We pay taxes on such investments as we have in Spain. AS for the rest, the necessary paperwork can be produced.
That's why accountants/fund managers insist on such exorbitant fees, I guess.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Fatbrit said:


> Voting in UK general elections stops after fifteen years. I lost my right to do so......some years back!
> 
> Also, the only practical method is to vote by proxy -- the paperwork will reach you after the election if you try to vote by mail.


Aren't proxy votes only available for invalids and people on holiday?


----------



## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Aren't proxy votes only available for invalids and people on holiday?


I'm not certain, but I'm sure it's reciprocal throughout the EU? Whilst living in the UK for the best part of his life, my OH (Spanish national) received the paperwork to vote in Spanish general elections and also had the right to vote in the UK local elections. Assuming it's the same all over the EU then, a UK national resident in Spain will receive similar paperwork from the British consulate or whatever necessary authority?? One has to bear in mind obviously that where one is resident and one's status is has to be clear to all parties though. Clearly, if the consulate/embassy don't have you registered here, then what are they sending to where and to whom?? As an aside, the issue of registering with your local consulate general going from OH's experience again, is very important for many reasons. Apart from births and deaths issues, everything becomes much clearer, including issues of returning to your country of birth. I say this because it's not just a voting issue, it's an "everything" issue!!


----------



## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> I'm not certain, but I'm sure it's reciprocal throughout the EU? Whilst living in the UK for the best part of his life, my OH (Spanish national) received the paperwork to vote in Spanish general elections and also had the right to vote in the UK local elections. Assuming it's the same all over the EU then, a UK national resident in Spain will receive similar paperwork from the British consulate or whatever necessary authority?? One has to bear in mind obviously that where one is resident and one's status is has to be clear to all parties though. Clearly, if the consulate/embassy don't have you registered here, then what are they sending to where and to whom?? As an aside, the issue of registering with your local consulate general going from OH's experience again, is very important for many reasons. Apart from births and deaths issues, everything becomes much clearer, including issues of returning to your country of birth. I say this because it's not just a voting issue, it's an "everything" issue!!


Interesting. I dont know about UK local elections, and to be honest, after living here over 6 years and having no ties in the UK anymore, in terms of property and finances, I wouldnt feel right about voting in local elections there, where would my local constituency be anyway? The last area I lived in I suppose?

Last year, when we had the European elections I was sent a letter six months before, saying I was entitled to vote either in the UK or Spain, but couldnt vote in both. So I had to choose one (or ignore it altogether) and I chose Spain. I think it was in Spanish and English and I assume I received it because i was registered with the Town Hall here (and had voted here before in the local elections). 

Mind you, I never received a polling card for last year's elections but went out of my way to go to the town hall to check I was on the electoral roll, and they said I was and could do so without a card. 

Dont remember ever receiving anything about voting in the local elections in the UK since I have been here. Havent registered with the British consulate here but have been meaning to do so, just in case of an emergency.

Caz.I


----------



## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> Interesting. I dont know about UK local elections, and to be honest, after living here over 6 years and having no ties in the UK anymore, in terms of property and finances, I wouldnt feel right about voting in local elections there, where would my local constituency be anyway? The last area I lived in I suppose?
> 
> Last year, when we had the European elections I was sent a letter six months before, saying I was entitled to vote either in the UK or Spain, but couldnt vote in both. So I had to choose one (or ignore it altogether) and I chose Spain. I think it was in Spanish and English and I assume I received it because i was registered with the Town Hall here (and had voted here before in the local elections).
> 
> ...


Yes that's right. He only ever got the papers from Spain to vote in Spanish general elections. He had the right to vote in UK local elections and of course EU elections. Same for me here - I have the right to vote in Spanish local elections but not general elections and of course the right to vote in EU elections. I should register myself with the UK embassy in Madrid (on my to do list!) which amongst other things would trigger, I assume, my UK general election voting papers. I guess it's something I should bother about as how the UK is governed will impact the value of the pound and that will impact me - quite apart from the fact that I will always care how the UK fits into the world and clearly the government has everything to do with that.


----------



## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> Aren't proxy votes only available for invalids and people on holiday?


Nope. You can vote by proxy if resident abroad.


Added - example form here: http://www.richmond.gov.uk/combined_overseas_registration_postal_and_proxy_forms.pdf


----------



## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

I may put the cat among the pigeons here but c'est la vie. 

You should get a vote because some country or other has an impact on one or two aspects of your life or because you are living there? 

I mean if the US economy collapses, if the Chinese reduce global cooperation, if Israel acts in an aggressive manner, then my life will be impacted. Should I therefore have a vote in each of these three countries?

This reminds me of the old Scottish independence referendum quandary. Who should vote? People living in Scotland, people who are Scottish, or all Brits


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

nigele2 said:


> I may put the cat among the pigeons here but c'est la vie.
> 
> You should get a vote because some country or other has an impact on one or two aspects of your life or because you are living there?
> 
> ...


Who was it who said 'No taxation without representation?'


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Fatbrit said:


> Nope. You can vote by proxy if resident abroad.
> 
> 
> Added - example form here: http://www.richmond.gov.uk/combined_overseas_registration_postal_and_proxy_forms.pdf


Why then would anyone choose a postal vote, I wonder...


----------



## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Who was it who said 'No taxation without representation?'


Ken Dodd?  Lester Piggott?


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

nigele2 said:


> Ken Dodd?  Lester Piggott?


 Lord Ashcroft?? It was one of those revolting Americans, I think.....
If I had a vote I wouldn't use it if you know what I mean) but as we pay UK tax on part of our income we deserve at least to be able top write something rude on the ballot paper...


----------



## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> Why then would anyone choose a postal vote, I wonder...


Because they think their mother might be a secret NF supporter?


----------



## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Who was it who said 'No taxation without representation?'


It was one of those annoying Americans.  But the US doesn't exactly play by those rules anymore. (More complicated than you probably want to know.)

But let me assure you, voting rights are NOT reciprocal amongst the EU members. I'm surprised to hear fatbrit say that UK voting rights from abroad run out after 15 years - I recall an article in the Economist (oh, about 15 years ago) saying that the UK was reducing that to 5 or 10 years for overseas residents. At the time, I don't think voting by mail was allowed at all, though maybe I mis-remember the article.

In France, we can vote by proxy if we're not going to be around on election day. But overseas residents who are French citizens have to go to the nearest consulate to cast their votes should they choose to do so. EU nationals residing in France can vote in the EU elections, and there has been talk of allowing foreigners to vote in local elections only (like town council and mayor) but it isn't a terribly popular idea.

Getting the right to vote has always been the overwhelming rationale for taking local nationality.
Cheers,
Bev


----------



## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Lord Ashcroft??


I'm a life long hornet (Watford supporter) so I will hear no bad words said about Lord A. He just saved us from Administration :clap2:

mrypg9 this seems suitable at this time "_Don't vote, it only encourages them_." ~Author Unknown


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Fatbrit said:


> Because they think their mother might be a secret NF supporter?


True. I would act very undemocratically and eat the ballot paper if my mother or son voted BNP and I were in charge of the vote.  My mother did (rather guiltily) admit to voting LibDem once. Only once.
I just wondered as someone pointed out that postal votes often arrived too late to be counted.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

nigele2 said:


> I'm a life long hornet (Watford supporter) so I will hear no bad words said about Lord A. He just saved us from Administration :clap2:
> 
> mrypg9 this seems suitable at this time "_Don't vote, it only encourages them_." ~Author Unknown


I've seen it written on walls all over the place -even translated into Czech!!
As I said, I wouldn't vote now which I ought to be ashamed about as I have not missed a single election since I was eighteen and I have myself been a (minor) elected politician.
My grandmother once came back early from visiting her daughter, my Aunt, in Canada because she wanted to make sure she could register her vote. She was then eighty and old enough to have been denied the vote when young because of her gender. She would never tell us how she voted but we all knew. It was her habit to be driven to the polling station by any Conservative canvasser who offered her a lift in a nice car.
You can guess how she cast her vote.
The last time I went to vote in the UK was for a local Council by-election. I wrote something on the paper as I knew all the candidates and thought they were all half-witted. A mere 12% of the electorate bothered to turn out for that election.
Probably the same percentage as bothered when my Gran came all the way from Canada to use the vote she was denied until she was thirty.


----------

