# Architect or engineer



## SusieandGlenn (Nov 29, 2010)

Hi everyone 
we have just bought some land near Obidos with a property on it,the property needs rebuilding as the walls aren't in great condition,the land is classed as rural for the house and the rest is rustic 

my question is this 
do we need architect and if so is it good practise to let them submit the plans to the Camara,we have been told so many different things that architects will submit the plans and come back saying the plans have been approved when it is not the case
We have also been told that we may not need an architect and that just to employ a builder to do the plans and apply for permission to build

also i know in the uk that a building inspector from the local authority would come round at certain stages to check the work,how does this work in portugal and who would be doing the inspecting

we are very confused and would appreciate any help 


thanks all 

glenn and susie


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## omostra06 (Sep 11, 2007)

Hi glenn and susie

The deeds for the property should have a urban part, where the house is if there is a house it cant be rural! are you sure the ruin is a house? what does it say on your deeds? the type and size of the land will determine what you can build, how big it can be, location or if its possible to build at all!

Did anyone check the status of the property and land when you were buying, to make sure that it is possible to rebuild?

If the building is in poor condition and needs to be rebuilt you will need full planning permission, in this case you must use an Architect and Engineer and a registered builder to carry out the work. only an Architect can submit your project to the council, not a builder.

What you need to work out is, does it need a full planning project or is it still habitable and can be rebuilt just with a license for the repairs.

Does the property have electricity attached?
is there a roof?
are you going to change the size and height of the building?

If it needs planning you are looking at around 2 months for the architect to come up with the drawings, then around one year to get the planning approved by the council, its quite rare for plans to be passed on the first submission, they normally need ajusting and resubmitting. all costs time and money.

Once you have a letter from the council stating that your application has been approved then you can go along with your registered builder to buy the license to build, (Licença de Obras)costs anywhere between 300 euros & 20,000 depending on your plans and how long you will take to build.

you can then have the builder rebuild the house, after its finished you need everyone to sign off the work, engineer, architect, electricain, plumber, acoustic engineer, gas etc etc, and then the council will issue a a Habitation licence (Licença de Habitação) allow at least 6 months to one year for the council to do this after the house is finished.

I have built 2 properties here going through the full planning process as well as helping several clients get through planning and remain sane! its not an easy route to follow, quite stressful and very time consuming, I now feel that buying a large old property that does not require planning (electricity connected) is a much quicker easier and cheaper way to rebuild property here. as you can make all the internal changes without planning permission, and as long as the building is big enough you are just changing the layout internally, to make the property work, much easier, often the fees alone to the architects, engineers and the council would cover the cost to renovate a property!

I do have some indepth guides covering all the subjects around planning and building here in Portugal, send message if you would like a copy.

This link on the forum might also be helpful
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/po...s-living-portugal/17054-tips-home-buyers.html

Hope this helps
Derek


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## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

I can only really re-iterate what Derek has said in his long and informative post.
We purchased a plot of land close to Alcobaca, we have engaged the services of a local Architect, it has taken approximately 23 months to get the full planning approved. Do not underestimate how long it will take to get especialidades (specialities......a.k.a Building Regs in UK)approved. This took longer than the actual planning approval.

My understanding having had a look at some "ruins" with our Architect is that they can be more trouble than a building plot !!!!!!

Regards

Rob


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## SusieandGlenn (Nov 29, 2010)

Thank you both, that is very helpful!!!!!


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