# Staying in Australia even after PR Expires? RRV?



## sanjlish (Aug 5, 2015)

Staying in Australia even after PR Expires without an RRV? - Not a good idea....


OK I know this topic has been discussed a zillion times, but everywhere in this forum, it is mentioned that lets say your visa expires in Jan 2017...even if you enter a few days before the actual expiry date..you can continue staying in Aus indefinitely, Only the travel part expires..that is if you exit Aus after the PR expiry date, you then need an RRV to re-enter Aus. So suppose I entered Aus and after 1 year my visa expired..I continue staying in aus (even though PR has expired) and do not leave the country. I now have completed staying 4 years in aus, and ideally I should be eligible for citizenship, right? Well..wrong..

What I have read on the AUS immigration site is that, inorder to apply for citizenship- you must have a valid visa at all times...

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Citi/Lear/Law-and-policy/res-req-changes

Read section: What should I do If I am planning to travel..

It says...
Permanent residents must *maintain their permanent resident status at all times to remain eligible to apply for citizenship. *This means ensuring that you have a current Resident Return Visa at all times when you are outside Australia or a permanent visa that is valid for entry to Australia.



The above piece of information clearly indicates that in order to apply for Australian citizenship, your permanent resident status must be valid. So that means, if the PR expires, one should renew it with the RRV.

Now RRV is a whole different ball game..You can get an RV for 5 years if you show you have stayed 2 years of the 5 years of stay in AUS or else you get an RRV for 3 months. 

I wanted to share this info as I came across few people who wanted to migrate on the last year of PR expiry and then continue staying in AUS (after Pr expires- without leaving the country and without applying RRV) and then ultimately apply for citizenship. This wont be possible as at the time of applying for citizenship, you need to have a valid visa (either PR or RRV).

Hope this helps someone out there...
Cheers!
Sanjlish


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

sanjlish said:


> Staying in Australia even after PR Expires without an RRV? - Not a good idea....
> 
> 
> OK I know this topic has been discussed a zillion times, but everywhere in this forum, it is mentioned that lets say your visa expires in Jan 2017...even if you enter a few days before the actual expiry date..you can continue staying in Aus indefinitely, Only the travel part expires..that is if you exit Aus after the PR expiry date, you then need an RRV to re-enter Aus. So suppose I entered Aus and after 1 year my visa expired..I continue staying in aus (even though PR has expired) and do not leave the country. I now have completed staying 4 years in aus, and ideally I should be eligible for citizenship, right? Well..wrong..
> ...


PR does not expire. Your entry right expires, but the visa is valid, and for citizenship purposes it is valid.

Assuming you move to Australia 4 years after your grant (after doing first entry before the deadline of course), you can stay for 3 years then apply for citizenship. Assume the last 2 of those 3 years were without RRV, that won't make a difference.

Your visa is still valid, you are still a lawful non-citizen, can work and stay. 

You only need an RRV if you need to depart and return.


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## sanjlish (Aug 5, 2015)

TheExpatriate said:


> PR does not expire. Your entry right expires, but the visa is valid, and for citizenship purposes it is valid.


If that was the case- why does it mention on the site *that one must maintain permanent resident status at all times?* How can one maintain a PR status and live legally when the visa they came on , in the first place has expired?? Is there any government link which explicitly explains what you have outlined?


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## sanjlish (Aug 5, 2015)

Can any of the mods, senior forum members share some light to this please?


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

sanjlish said:


> If that was the case- why does it mention on the site *that one must maintain permanent resident status at all times?* How can one maintain a PR status and live legally when the visa they came on , in the first place has expired?? Is there any government link which explicitly explains what you have outlined?


Apparently in your scare you missed to read what I have written. 

If you are IN Australia, and the five years end, the visa does NOT expire. The entry right does though, but the visa does not expire, and you ARE still a permanent resident.




sanjlish said:


> Can any of the mods, senior forum members share some light to this please?


I don't know if I meet your definition of a "senior member" or not, given my # of posts and join date, plus my profession, but trust me, whatever I told you is 100% right. Relax, take a deep breath. 

The only problem after the 5 years without the RRV is that you can't leave and return ! You won't lose any status or any time for citizenship


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## sanjlish (Aug 5, 2015)

Thank you "The Expatriate" for sharing light into this.


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## aussieland (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi,
I wanted some more info on this topic:
Does ones needs to complete exactly 2 years(total 730 days) within 5 years timelines to be eligible for another 5 year extension?
Or
They look for approx 2 years timelines within 5 years?


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

aussieland said:


> Hi,
> I wanted some more info on this topic:
> Does ones needs to complete exactly 2 years(total 730 days) within 5 years timelines to be eligible for another 5 year extension?
> Or
> They look for approx 2 years timelines within 5 years?


there is no such thing as extend the PR

You can move to Australia on the last day of the five years and live happily ever after in Australia .... 

The 2 years requirement applies to RRV

more importantly: 1- you do NOT need an RRV to live in Australia, 2- You can get a 155 RRV if you live 2 years in the last 5 (does not necessarily have to be the five years entry validity)


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## sanjlish (Aug 5, 2015)

TheExpatriate said:


> there is no such thing as extend the PR
> 
> You can move to Australia on the last day of the five years and live happily ever after in Australia ....
> 
> - You can get a 155 RRV if you live 2 years in the last 5 (does not necessarily have to be the five years entry validity)


So what you are trying to say is that- suppose one enters australia on the last day of the five years..and continues to live happily for 2 years in aus (without exiting the country)..

So he has continued staying in aus for 2 years after PR validity, but has not exited..So now after these 2 years, he can apply for RRV 155 and most likely it will be granted? (as he has stayed in Aus for 2 years)?

Or what I am trying to ask is suppose- PR validity expires 10 Jan 2016. One enters Aus on 09 Jan 2016. He/she continues to stay for 2 years till 10 Jan 2018 (without leaving AUS). so on 11 Jan 2018, can I submit RRV 155 and it will be approved for 5 years?

Regards
Sanjlish


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## rrnarayan (Dec 10, 2011)

subscribing...as I am too looking for more information around the RRV/AUS citizenship


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## ThunderDownUnder (Jun 10, 2015)

TheExpatriate said:


> there is no such thing as extend the PR
> 
> You can move to Australia on the last day of the five years and live happily ever after in Australia ....
> 
> ...


Can you please elaborate on spending 2 years in australia?
should these 2 years be at a stretch or can be in trances on some months spread across the 5 years ?
Do they exactly check for 730 days spent in australia? how do they check that?

Also having spent 2 years in australia will guarantee an RRV for 5 years?


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

sanjlish said:


> So what you are trying to say is that- suppose one enters australia on the last day of the five years..and continues to live happily for 2 years in aus (without exiting the country)..
> 
> So he has continued staying in aus for 2 years after PR validity, but has not exited..So now after these 2 years, he can apply for RRV 155 and most likely it will be granted? (as he has stayed in Aus for 2 years)?


Yes, actually, unless they had criminal history, then DEFINITELY it will be granted. It takes one working day from within Australia to have an RRV if you have stayed 2 years in the last 5 years (again, 2 in the last 5, not 2 during the visa's 5 year entry validity) 





sanjlish said:


> Or what I am trying to ask is suppose- PR validity expires 10 Jan 2016. One enters Aus on 09 Jan 2016. He/she continues to stay for 2 years till 10 Jan 2018 (without leaving AUS). so on 11 Jan 2018, can I submit RRV 155 and it will be approved for 5 years?
> 
> Regards
> Sanjlish



yes ... 100%


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

ThunderDownUnder said:


> Can you please elaborate on spending 2 years in australia?
> should these 2 years be at a stretch or can be in trances on some months spread across the 5 years ?



730 days in the five years immediately before submitting the RRV application. Whether it's 2 years in one go or few days here and few weeks there




ThunderDownUnder said:


> Do they exactly check for 730 days spent in australia? how do they check that?


Yes they do, using your movement records (entry/exit records) in the department systems 





ThunderDownUnder said:


> Also having spent 2 years in australia will guarantee an RRV for 5 years?


Yes, unless you have criminal history


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Actually if you have spent less than 2 years in Australia + have settled in (e.g.: rented a house, got a job, kids in school ...etc.) + have a compelling reason to travel (e.g. family issue, business trip) you may be able to secure a 3 months RRV (but not guaranteed)


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## sanjlish (Aug 5, 2015)

Thank you "the Expatriate"..I think you answers are very precise and clear enough. Personally for me, I would like to migrate in the 3rd year of my 5 year validity..thus showing that 2 years I stayed and immediately after Pr expiry- can apply for RRV- the only sole reason being- if there was an emergency with family in India or anywhere in the world, I dont have to worry about re-entering the country..So your answers have been really helpful. Thank you once again.


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## funnybond4u (Sep 10, 2013)

Wonderful explanation with great clarity.


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## singhk.2013 (Sep 4, 2013)

Nicely explained! !!! Thanks for the information.


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## Jerrytan (Feb 29, 2016)

With regards to this RRV, i current have an expired RRV. I wish to return but my RRV was refused.

Some background
i was granted PR in 2008 and expired in 2014. Apply a RRV and was granted 1 year. I have spent about 20 over day in Australia during the RRV and between 2008 to 2014 is about 40 day. I renew the RRV in 2015 but was refused. Base on the reply, it was refused because the case officer are not satisfied with my case claiming that i did not fulfill my undertaking in my previous RRV. I am now left with no alternative of returning. I have been writing to apply for job but none of them reply. I am willing to pump in money (of up to AUD $150k) to set up business but as i have no way of retuning, i could not do any.

I like to seek anyone here who can advise me. Do PM me if you feel you wish to contact me seperately


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## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

Jerrytan said:


> With regards to this RRV, i current have an expired RRV. I wish to return but my RRV was refused.
> 
> Some background
> i was granted PR in 2008 and expired in 2014. Apply a RRV and was granted 1 year. I have spent about 20 over day in Australia during the RRV and between 2008 to 2014 is about 40 day. I renew the RRV in 2015 but was refused. Base on the reply, it was refused because the case officer are not satisfied with my case claiming that i did not fulfill my undertaking in my previous RRV. I am now left with no alternative of returning. I have been writing to apply for job but none of them reply. I am willing to pump in money (of up to AUD $150k) to set up business but as i have no way of retuning, i could not do any.
> ...


Whatever you are willing to pump in money to set up a business is irrelevant. Obviously, you have not been able to show substantial ties to Australia; which I think is the main reason why your 2nd RRV application was refused. 

Your record isn't very ideal. So essentially, out of 6 years, you spent less than 100 days in Australia itself, correct? That really defeats the purpose of permanent residency. Unless you can show substantial ties to Australia, it is unlikely you will get a second RRV. 

You need to speak to a good migration agent.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Jerrytan said:


> With regards to this RRV, i current have an expired RRV. I wish to return but my RRV was refused.
> 
> Some background
> i was granted PR in 2008 and expired in 2014. Apply a RRV and was granted 1 year. I have spent about 20 over day in Australia during the RRV and between 2008 to 2014 is about 40 day. I renew the RRV in 2015 but was refused. Base on the reply, it was refused because the case officer are not satisfied with my case claiming that i did not fulfill my undertaking in my previous RRV. I am now left with no alternative of returning. I have been writing to apply for job but none of them reply. I am willing to pump in money (of up to AUD $150k) to set up business but as i have no way of retuning, i could not do any.
> ...


I don't think your case holds any merit to another RRV. If you can re-apply for a new PR visa, go ahead ...


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## Thoma2014 (May 30, 2014)

Hi,

I would like to know that do we need to apply for PCC if we are eligible only for subclass 157 visa which is only for 3 months. And will this be also issued in 1 day provided I have a compelling reason to travel ( need to bring my wife and kid from India). Is this reason strong enough to get the RRV for 3 months?


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Thoma2014 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I would like to know that do we need to apply for PCC if we are eligible only for subclass 157 visa which is only for 3 months. And will this be also issued in 1 day provided I have a compelling reason to travel ( need to bring my wife and kid from India). Is this reason strong enough to get the RRV for 3 months?


No PCC required. 

157 may take longer than 1 day


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## Thoma2014 (May 30, 2014)

Thank you for your reply. Regarding subclass 155, what proof will be required with respect to personal ties. I do not have my immediate family members like brother or sister in Australia. I have relatives but are like my fathers brothers daughter or grandmothers brothers daughter, my brother in laws brother etc. Do these count as personal ties? Do first cousins count?


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Thoma2014 said:


> Thank you for your reply. Regarding subclass 155, what proof will be required with respect to personal ties. I do not have my immediate family members like brother or sister in Australia. I have relatives but are like my fathers brothers daughter or grandmothers brothers daughter, my brother in laws brother etc. Do these count as personal ties? Do first cousins count?


How long have you stayed in Australia in the last 5 years?


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## Thoma2014 (May 30, 2014)

TheExpatriate said:


> How long have you stayed in Australia in the last 5 years?


I have been living in Australia for 2 months only. Do we need to apply for PCC for Subclass 155?

Does casual work count for employment ties?


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Thoma2014 said:


> I have been living in Australia for 2 months only. Do we need to apply for PCC for Subclass 155?
> 
> Does casual work count for employment ties?


no and no 

You will need to do 157. You are not eligible for 155 based on 2 months stay


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## Thoma2014 (May 30, 2014)

TheExpatriate said:


> no and no
> 
> You will need to do 157. You are not eligible for 155 based on 2 months stay


So what is the minimum stay to apply for 157. What I understood from the DIBP website is that if we have not spend 2 year in the last five years, then we need to show ties to Australia either business, cultural, employment or personal.

Could you clarify regarding my query about close family members.

Also if I currently do not have a compelling or compassionate reason to leave Australia, cant I apply for 157 RRV?


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## Thoma2014 (May 30, 2014)

I meant " What is the minimum stay to apply for subclass 155."


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## amitambika (Jul 6, 2011)

I needed to ask a question. If you are staying in Australia and have got a job and PR has expired. Is it is a good reason to apply for RRV if you have stayed for less than 2 years in last 5 years. Is job a good enough tie to Australia or it will still depend on discretion of assessing officer. In such a scenario if RRV is granted it will it be for 2 years, 1 year or 3 months.


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## ausmsc (Jun 2, 2012)

Thoma2014 said:


> Thank you for your reply. Regarding subclass 155, what proof will be required with respect to personal ties. I do not have my immediate family members like brother or sister in Australia. I have relatives but are like my fathers brothers daughter or grandmothers brothers daughter, my brother in laws brother etc. Do these count as personal ties? Do first cousins count?



Hello,

I have same query.

does real sister can consider as Personal ties?


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## ausmsc (Jun 2, 2012)

*RRV Australia*



Thoma2014 said:


> Thank you for your reply. Regarding subclass 155, what proof will be required with respect to personal ties. I do not have my immediate family members like brother or sister in Australia. I have relatives but are like my fathers brothers daughter or grandmothers brothers daughter, my brother in laws brother etc. Do these count as personal ties? Do first cousins count?



Hello,

I have same query.

does real sister can consider as Personal ties?


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## Sierraaustralia (Jan 15, 2017)

I am planning to buy a property in Australia.Will not be shifting as I don't have job there and not ready to leave current high yield job.Need your advice that is if you own a property in Australia a proof enough to get RRV, if I plan to settle in the year when my visa expires? Kindly advice.


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## derek2016 (Feb 24, 2016)

Sierraaustralia said:


> I am planning to buy a property in Australia.Will not be shifting as I don't have job there and not ready to leave current high yield job.Need your advice that is if you own a property in Australia a proof enough to get RRV, if I plan to settle in the year when my visa expires? Kindly advice.


Did you find out anything in the end? I am planning to buy a property too with same situation. Any advice?


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## bnkamal (Jan 31, 2015)

derek2016 said:


> Did you find out anything in the end? I am planning to buy a property too with same situation. Any advice?


Did u guys get the answer for this... pls share the response.


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## vn143 (Aug 30, 2012)

Hello
My 189 VISA will expire on 27 Feb 2018. I went to australia in Oct 2013 for 20 days , after that i came back to India. Now, I am working with software company on a project of australian company. I am planning to go to australia next month. If i apply file Subclass 155 from there , what will be chances of getting VISA 155.

Pl suggest.


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## rajeshva002 (Aug 20, 2017)

Hi,

I am new to this forum. Please can somebody advise me on this.

My PR (190) will expire on Sep 2018. My daughter’s (2 years old) PR will expire on Nov 2020 (applied for her PR after she was born). Could not make our final move to Australia so far because of my daughter’s health issues. Travelled to Australia twice for visa validation. So do not fulfill the 2 years stay for a 5 years RRV. Am I eligible for a 1 year RRV on ground that my daughter’s PR is still valid? And when should I apply for RRV in case I am unable to move before Sep 2018?

Thanks in advance.
RV


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

vn143 said:


> Hello
> My 189 VISA will expire on 27 Feb 2018. I went to australia in Oct 2013 for 20 days , after that i came back to India. Now, I am working with software company on a project of australian company. I am planning to go to australia next month. If i apply file Subclass 155 from there , what will be chances of getting VISA 155.
> 
> Pl suggest.


You may get a 3 month 157

The chances of 155 are negligible unless you can prove substantial ties with Australia like property purchases, investments business etc. even then you will get only 1 year 155

Cheers


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## andreyx108b (Mar 15, 2015)

vn143 said:


> Hello
> My 189 VISA will expire on 27 Feb 2018. I went to australia in Oct 2013 for 20 days , after that i came back to India. Now, I am working with software company on a project of australian company. I am planning to go to australia next month. If i apply file Subclass 155 from there , what will be chances of getting VISA 155.
> 
> Pl suggest.


you need more substantial ties than 20 days... 2 years will do. Otherwise, better to come before 28th of Feb.


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## rajeshva002 (Aug 20, 2017)

rajeshva002 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am new to this forum. Please can somebody advise me on this.
> 
> ...


Please can anybody help me on this.

Regards
RV


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

rajeshva002 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am new to this forum. Please can somebody advise me on this.
> 
> ...


If you want extension on medical grounds, then best to consult a MARA agent
They have a wide database to refer to and cite similar cases

I doubt you can get an extension on th basis of your daughters PR, as each PR holder is independent, once it is issued 

Cheers


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## andreyx108b (Mar 15, 2015)

ausmsc said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have same query.
> 
> does real sister can consider as Personal ties?


In such situation it makes sense to talk to agent, but from high level, no.


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## friction (Jun 24, 2010)

rajeshva002 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am new to this forum. Please can somebody advise me on this.
> 
> ...


I have a similar issue. My PR will expire 2019 Jan. I have only stayed for 3 months. I can not move until 2019 June due to work commitments. We have bought a house in Melbourne which is currently being rented out. How to get a 1 year RRV? Any recommendations for immigration consultants?


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## Shahirah (May 31, 2018)

Hi. The travel facility on my Australian PR (190) is expiring on 5/7/2018. I applied for RRV on 21/4/2018, and still have not heard back from them. I have been in residency status in Australia for the past four years and working. If I go on holiday in June 2018 and come back on 2/7/2018, will I still be allowed back in, even though the travel facility is about to expire?


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## ubabar85 (Dec 9, 2014)

Subscribing ....


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