# rough cost of monthly outgoings



## mindxb (Jul 10, 2011)

Hi,

My family and I are thinking of moving to Spain in a couple of years... we are long-term expats in Dubai, so know the drill.

We are trying to calculate what our outgoings would be roughly for a 2 bed close to Marbella, + bills, food (shopping), hire car etc.

Thanks in advance


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mindxb said:


> Hi,
> 
> My family and I are thinking of moving to Spain in a couple of years... we are long-term expats in Dubai, so know the drill.
> 
> ...


Depends on how many there are of you, and your standards!! I would say as a rule of thumb, in Marbella, it would be about the same as it would be in the UK - however, if you're in Dubai, you dont know what that is??!! 


Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Check out the Cost of Living thread if you haven't already.

My partner and I have no kids, no swimming pool, no aircon, no dogs, and own our house and car outright. We don't have health insurance as we are covered by the state system. We don't go out much but we eat well at home and buy lots of books. Our average outgoings are about €1500 a month, including about €100 a month on petrol as we live out in the sticks.

Take that as a base and add on your variables! Rent, schooling, private health insurance, car hire, trips abroad, eating out ...


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## mindxb (Jul 10, 2011)

jojo said:


> Depends on how many there are of you, and your standards!! I would say as a rule of thumb, in Marbella, it would be about the same as it would be in the UK - however, if you're in Dubai, you dont know what that is??!!
> 
> 
> Jo xxx



Yes, 10 years in Dubai now so not really up-to-date on prices at home... but it can't be higher than here!

We have a 5 year old, and will of course add school fees to any base figure


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## mindxb (Jul 10, 2011)

Alcalaina said:


> Check out the Cost of Living thread if you haven't already.
> 
> My partner and I have no kids, no swimming pool, no aircon, no dogs, and own our house and car outright. We don't have health insurance as we are covered by the state system. We don't go out much but we eat well at home and buy lots of books. Our average outgoings are about €1500 a month, including about €100 a month on petrol as we live out in the sticks.
> 
> Take that as a base and add on your variables! Rent, schooling, private health insurance, car hire, trips abroad, eating out ...


Thanks for that... we do have 1 child and will add school fees accordingly. We wouldn't be out that much with a little one - I too am happy to spend most of my money on books

Do you have any idea of the price of a decent 2 bed within a complex in nice part of costa del sol? (my family owned a place in Fuengirola for 10 years... but that was a in the 80's, so have no idea what it's like these days) - and perhaps car hire?

Thanks


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mindxb said:


> Yes, 10 years in Dubai now so not really up-to-date on prices at home... but it can't be higher than here!
> 
> We have a 5 year old, and will of course add school fees to any base figure


actually for a 5 year old I'd wholeheartedly recommend state school - you have to pay for books & incidentals, but otherwise it's free - & very good in most schools

have a read of http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/62551-education-spain.html


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## mindxb (Jul 10, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> actually for a 5 year old I'd wholeheartedly recommend state school - you have to pay for books & incidentals, but otherwise it's free - & very good in most schools
> 
> have a read of http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/62551-education-spain.html


I just don't feel comfortable putting him into a Spanish only speaking school... the transition will be enough change I think. I'm not really looking for him to become Spanish (don't mean that to sound arrogant) I'm most interested in a good education within the British system, so one day he will go off to a good university somewhere.

Having been an expat for quite a while, I'm not sure if Spain will be our last stop either


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mindxb said:


> I just don't feel comfortable putting him into a Spanish only speaking school... the transition will be enough change I think. I'm not really looking for him to become Spanish (don't mean that to sound arrogant) I'm most interested in a good education within the British system, so one day he will go off to a good university somewhere.
> 
> Having been an expat for quite a while, I'm not sure if Spain will be our last stop either


I always recommend you choose a school from a recognized organisation, such as NABSS Welcome to Nabss | Nabss Sadly, they dont put prices on, but most schools on the costa del sol/west are around 500€ ish for primary

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mindxb said:


> I just don't feel comfortable putting him into a Spanish only speaking school... the transition will be enough change I think. I'm not really looking for him to become Spanish (don't mean that to sound arrogant) I'm most interested in a good education within the British system, so one day he will go off to a good university somewhere.
> 
> Having been an expat for quite a while, I'm not sure if Spain will be our last stop either


yes, we felt the same when we first came & wasted 10,000€ on a supposedly good British curriculum school

some are very good, of course, but it has to be remembered that you will often be paying for at best the equivalent of a mediocre UK state education

there are however some very good private bilingual schools around

the state education here is at least as good as the UK one - better IMO - the curriculum isn't so very different either


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> yes, we felt the same when we first came & wasted 10,000€ on a supposedly good British curriculum school
> 
> some are very good, of course, but it has to be remembered that you will often be paying for at best the equivalent of a mediocre UK state education
> 
> ...


I think that at the age of 5, it wouldnt do any harm going to a state school, most have a sprinkling of British kids and have bilingual lessons. But its all down to choice and finances. Alot of the International schools now have more than their fair share of Spanish/other kids too, so your son would still pick up Spanish, but they do tend to teach according to the british curriculum

Jo xxx


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## mindxb (Jul 10, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> yes, we felt the same when we first came & wasted 10,000€ on a supposedly good British curriculum school
> 
> some are very good, of course, but it has to be remembered that you will often be paying for at best the equivalent of a mediocre UK state education
> 
> ...


Sorry to sound thick... but how does a biligual school work? I'm thinking that may be a little confusing - excelling in some classes and struggling in others. Would be curious to know more


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## mindxb (Jul 10, 2011)

jojo said:


> I think that at the age of 5, it wouldnt do any harm going to a state school, most have a sprinkling of British kids and have bilingual lessons. But its all down to choice and finances. Alot of the International schools now have more than their fair share of Spanish/other kids too, so your son would still pick up Spanish, but they do tend to teach according to the british curriculum
> 
> Jo xxx


As I've just replied to Xabiachica... I'm really not sure what a bilingual school is and how it works? I have a seriously bright child... which also means stubborn. I'm concerned that some seemingly easy lessons, followed by some difficult to comprehend ones, but be a little confusing.

The standard of British schools here in Dubai is good, having looked at the brochures for places like St George's and Sunny View, I was kind of expecting the same...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mindxb said:


> As I've just replied to Xabiachica... I'm really not sure what a bilingual school is and how it works? I have a seriously bright child... which also means stubborn. I'm concerned that some seemingly easy lessons, followed by some difficult to comprehend ones, but be a little confusing.
> 
> The standard of British schools here in Dubai is good, having looked at the brochures for places like St George's and Sunny View, I was kind of expecting the same...


Yes St Georges and Sunnyview are good - as is "The British College" Benalmadena. The one known locally for being the best is http://www.nabss.org/test/schoolsen.php?school=aloCollege!!! Sadly, its prices reflect its reputation!!

The Bilingual thing is really meant for the Spanish children, so that they grow up with a good grasp of English - the main language of business (for now???!)Some lessons, usually geography, history, humanity type lessons and of course English are taught in English with some spanish back up. Plus there are English lessons everyday. Gradually as the children get older, other subjects are taught in english

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mindxb said:


> Sorry to sound thick... but how does a biligual school work? I'm thinking that may be a little confusing - excelling in some classes and struggling in others. Would be curious to know more


they study some subjects in Spanish & some in English usually - I know some spanish kids who go to a bilingual school in valencia & their english is excellent

at my kids state schools they study some subjects in spanish & some in the local language, valenciano - so my kids are trilingual, because obviously they speak english too!

my 15 year old also studies german, and will be taking latin next year

in fact, they are apparently going to be trying to introduce _trilingual _teaching at the secondary school they go to - so one or two subjects will be taught in english

that's still at trial stages, so I'm not sure how successful it will be with kids who thus far don't speak fluent english - but it obviously won't be a problem for my two girls


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## mindxb (Jul 10, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> they study some subjects in Spanish & some in English usually - I know some spanish kids who go to a bilingual school in valencia & their english is excellent
> 
> at my kids state schools they study some subjects in spanish & some in the local language, valenciano - so my kids are trilingual, because obviously they speak english too!
> 
> ...


Clever girls... we should know Italian as daddy is... but haven't got very far as yet (shame on us!) So just English for now I guess


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## mindxb (Jul 10, 2011)

jojo said:


> Yes St Georges and Sunnyview are good - as is "The British College" Benalmadena. The one known locally for being the best is http://www.nabss.org/test/schoolsen.php?school=aloCollege!!! Sadly, its prices reflect its reputation!!
> 
> The Bilingual thing is really meant for the Spanish children, so that they grow up with a good grasp of English - the main language of business (for now???!)Some lessons, usually geography, history, humanity type lessons and of course English are taught in English with some spanish back up. Plus there are English lessons everyday. Gradually as the children get older, other subjects are taught in english
> 
> Jo xxx


Thanks for that! I presume for the prices, that the private international schools offer at least 'decent' Spanish tuition? My son starts having the prerequisite Arabic lessons from September... I wish I could swap them for Spanish - haha!


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## mindxb (Jul 10, 2011)

mindxb said:


> Thanks for that! I presume for the prices, that the private international schools offer at least 'decent' Spanish tuition? My son starts having the prerequisite Arabic lessons from September... I wish I could swap them for Spanish - haha!


By the way... any idea how I swap the Spanish expat flag (for now) by my name to a UAE one?

Thanks a lot


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mindxb said:


> By the way... any idea how I swap the Spanish expat flag (for now) by my name to a UAE one?
> 
> Thanks a lot


go into UserCP at the top of the page, then 'edit your details' then change 'expat to' to UAE


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## nandnjudge2 (Oct 5, 2008)

That makes very interesting you say Euros 1,500 per month
We can manage on approx Euros 1,000 per month and we have 2 dogs, three cats, 5 ducks and two Smart Cars. We are almost self sufficient with very little spent other than Meat, Fish and dairy produce.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

nandnjudge2 said:


> That makes very interesting you say Euros 1,500 per month
> We can manage on approx Euros 1,000 per month and we have 2 dogs, three cats, 5 ducks and two Smart Cars. We are almost self sufficient with very little spent other than Meat, Fish and dairy produce.


Maybe Portugal is cheaper than Spain then!? We could certainly manage on less if we had to, but as yet (touch wood) we don't have to.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jojo said:


> I think that at the age of 5, it wouldnt do any harm going to a state school, most have a sprinkling of British kids and have bilingual lessons. But its all down to choice and finances. Alot of the International schools now have more than their fair share of Spanish/other kids too, so your son would still pick up Spanish, but they do tend to teach according to the british curriculum
> 
> Jo xxx


Unfortunately they use the so-called OUP text books that are absolute rubbish.

As an English speaker you will recognise the difference between "I want" and "I would like" or that teaching a child "I'm" and "you're" before "I am" and "you are" is 'bass-ackwards' - the ones that make you cringe are what the OUP texts teach!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Check out the Cost of Living thread if you haven't already.
> 
> My partner and I have no kids, no swimming pool, no aircon, no dogs, and own our house and car outright. We don't have health insurance as we are covered by the state system. We don't go out much but we eat well at home and buy lots of books. Our average outgoings are about €1500 a month, including about €100 a month on petrol as we live out in the sticks.
> 
> Take that as a base and add on your variables! Rent, schooling, private health insurance, car hire, trips abroad, eating out ...


Claire- you are seriously wealthy if you manage to get through €1500 pm. 

My pensions amount to €900 and we (Better half, mother-in-law and self + 1 dog) manage to save about 200-300€ out of that. We own our own house (5BR, 2Ba, 2 Kit) outright, have a sensible and economical vehicle for our needs and small enough to get around the small villages yet still big enough to be able to carry our entire kitchen flatpack. We are still having work done to get the house the way we want it (patio is next, then the attic) and these things plus holidays (Avila and Galicia in September) use up some of the savings and the small amount that the better half earns from teaching a few hours a week in a local academy (this is mainly to pay pension contributions here in Spain) any surplus goes into the "what if?" fund (enabled us to completely capa-fina the back of the house after the 2009-10 winter rains.

Much depends on where you live, too. If you choose to live on or near the CdS (also known as 'Little Britain' or 'cloud cuckoo land' by some) then you may well pay twice as much as we do for a similar standard of living and even more if you want to spend all your time in bars.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> Claire- you are seriously wealthy if you manage to get through €1500 pm.


Seriously wealthy? I think not! That was based on what we spent last year, divided by 12. It included two trips to the UK (we have to stay in B&Bs as our families' homes are too small), a new laptop, some maintenance work on the house, €1200 worth of dental work, €500 worth of spectacles (two pairs each), lots of art materials and woodworking tools so we can make our own frames. I spend very little on cosmetics, hairdressers or clothes, and have never been to a beauty parlour in my life (that _would_ be money down the drain! )

We go out one or two evenings a week but it is difficult to spend more than €10 or €12 here as drinks are €1 each and all the musical events are free. We have lunch out about twice a month, average price €30 for two. We don't skimp on food and drink at home, we always buy good quality meats, cheese and wine, and OH treats himself to a bottle of good brandy now and then. 

A comfortable life but certainly not lavish. If the three of you plus your lovely dog can live on €600 a month perhaps you could give us all some tips!


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

We've just finished "setting up" and I must say I found some things very expensive. I thought some groceries looked expensive when we were over in April so I've been paying extra attention since then. Although prices are rising quickly in the UK, it still seemed more expensive for many things we had to buy in Spain.

I could not find printer paper for much less than 5 euros - easily half that price in UK.

Cheapest shredder I could find was 40 euros, the exact same one is around £20 in Argos - it'll be going out in the next suitcase!

Cleaning products, washing powder, etc were more expensive, too, even looking for "own brands."

A brioche was 3.25 - Tesco sell the exact same one for about £1.00.

Tried to buy some household bits and pieces locally, but had to give in and make a trip to the dreaded Ikea.... 4 euros for a bog standard ice cube tray - no way!

Pyrex dishes were also about twice UK prices - and why is it so hard to find a casserole dish with a lid?!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

brocher said:


> We've just finished "setting up" and I must say I found some things very expensive. I thought some groceries looked expensive when we were over in April so I've been paying extra attention since then. Although prices are rising quickly in the UK, it still seemed more expensive for many things we had to buy in Spain.
> 
> I could not find printer paper for much less than 5 euros - easily half that price in UK.
> 
> ...


Where are you shopping? what brands are you buying? If you trying to get the same stuff here that you bought in UK - forget it! Fresh fruit and veg here is much cheaper because it will not look so picture perfect. Most other foodstuffs are cheaper too - flour in Spain is about 0.73€ per kg and will cost you £2.50 in UK, biscuits are cheaper. Cheddar cheese is more expensive but many Spanish cheeses are as good as, if not better, for flavour

An expensive printer paper is not so easy to find - try Carrefour. Carrefour also for laundry liquid and conditioner. Don't forget Lidl, they had a shredder recently for about 15€, depends how expensive you want. Mercadona usually offers good value too! Why would you want to buy a brioche anyway, surely you need to be setting up a house in France, if that is the sort of stuff you expect to buy.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

baldilocks said:


> Where are you shopping? what brands are you buying? If you trying to get the same stuff here that you bought in UK - forget it! Fresh fruit and veg here is much cheaper because it will not look so picture perfect. Most other foodstuffs are cheaper too - flour in Spain is about 0.73€ per kg and will cost you £2.50 in UK, biscuits are cheaper. Cheddar cheese is more expensive but many Spanish cheeses are as good as, if not better, for flavour
> 
> An expensive printer paper is not so easy to find - try Carrefour. Carrefour also for laundry liquid and conditioner. Don't forget Lidl, they had a shredder recently for about 15€, depends how expensive you want. Mercadona usually offers good value too! Why would you want to buy a brioche anyway, surely you need to be setting up a house in France, if that is the sort of stuff you expect to buy.


We were shopping in the huge hypermarket , Al Campo, in Marbella (which is supposed to be as cheap as Mercadona) and Chinese Bazaars. There's no Carrefour locally.

Hopefully you are right about the fresh food - we didn't really buy much this trip - it was all the cleaning products, tissues, toilet and store cupboard stuff.


Brioche - we only bought it for a quick breakfast when we were getting up early to queue for NI number!!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

brocher said:


> We were shopping in the huge hypermarket , Al Campo, in Marbella (which is supposed to be as cheap as Mercadona) and Chinese Bazaars. There's no Carrefour locally.
> 
> Hopefully you are right about the fresh food - we didn't really buy much this trip - it was all the cleaning products, tissues, toilet and store cupboard stuff.
> 
> ...


ok - off topic, but no-one has answered me on the NIE thread

it's years since we did our residents thingy EX16 - we're about to do my dad's

any chance you can answer my Q on the NIE thread?

and did you actually need padrón?


pretty please


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> ok - off topic, but no-one has answered me on the NIE thread
> 
> it's years since we did our residents thingy EX16 - we're about to do my dad's
> 
> ...



If she ever gets off the phone, I'll ask my daughter if ahe can remember what she did - we weren't sure either! I'll post answer in the NIE thread!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

brocher said:


> We've just finished "setting up" and I must say I found some things very expensive. I thought some groceries looked expensive when we were over in April so I've been paying extra attention since then. Although prices are rising quickly in the UK, it still seemed more expensive for many things we had to buy in Spain.
> 
> I could not find printer paper for much less than 5 euros - easily half that price in UK.
> 
> ...


Funny coincidence, I bought some ice cube trays on Saturday - three for 2 euros in the local bazaar.

Spanish cooking methods are different, they use the top of the stove for stews etc rather than the oven and pressure cookers are very common. So Pyrex dishes with a lid probably count as exotic imports - like brioche!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Funny coincidence, I bought some ice cube trays on Saturday - three for 2 euros in the local bazaar.
> 
> Spanish cooking methods are different, they use the top of the stove for stews etc rather than the oven and pressure cookers are very common. So Pyrex dishes with a lid probably count as exotic imports - like brioche!


you're right....& I really must buy a pressure cooker before the kids go back to school - they'll both be home for lunch just after 2 & I'll be working til at least 1 - so that would make life so much easier

I buy the ice bags that you fill up with water & put in the freezer - they come on a roll & are easier than trays

I have to admit I really miss my big american fridge-freezer with icemaker that I had in the UK!!

my kitchen here just isn't big enough


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

brocher said:


> We were shopping in the huge hypermarket , Al Campo, in Marbella (which is supposed to be as cheap as Mercadona) and Chinese Bazaars. There's no Carrefour locally.
> 
> Hopefully you are right about the fresh food - we didn't really buy much this trip - it was all the cleaning products, tissues, toilet and store cupboard stuff.
> 
> ...


Al Campo can be cheaper for some things but in some cases so is the quality, in particular their own brand laundry liquid (while you are opening the container to smell the contents have a look at the size of the measuring cup - larger cup means you need more of the liquid to get the same cleaning power). There are a couple of Carrefours in Málaga + Torremolinos, Estepona, etc. go to carrefour.es for branches. Carrefour 32 value toilet rolls offer much better value than, say the offer pack (32 rolls+16[free!]) of Scotties on sale in Al Campo which are much looser rolled, smaller and shorter. Carrefour roll lasts 2-3 days, Scottie barely 1 day. 

One thing you will find difficult to obtain is baking margarine (block type) which you may want for pastry. '3/4' tub isn't bad (but contains a lot of water) but the best you can get in Spain is Holland which comes in larger tubs (I think 1kg). My nearest Carrefour/Al Campo are about 70km away so they are only used when we happen to be going that way, otherwise we use Lidl or Mercadona in Alcalá La Real. We probably have an advantage regarding fresh fruit and veg in that our neighbours give them to us and in return, we cook cakes, biscuits, etc that they can't cook themselves because their gas ovens aren't thermostatically controlled and ours is.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

Right enough we did see a lot of enamel dishes but we wanted something to go in the microwave so she could make some quick stuff - no oven at all in the flat! I've never had a pressure cooker - so she wouldn't know what to do with that!

If pyrex is for "exotic" dishes she's gad it - a bit of chilli is about her stretch!

Mind you we did buy a grill plate thing which - because we thought they looked a good idea with no oven, and easier to clean than grilling in the microwave - it cooked pork steaks beautifully.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

brocher said:


> Right enough we did see a lot of enamel dishes but we wanted something to go in the microwave so she could make some quick stuff - no oven at all in the flat! I've never had a pressure cooker - so she wouldn't know what to do with that!
> 
> If pyrex is for "exotic" dishes she's gad it - a bit of chilli is about her stretch!
> 
> Mind you we did buy a grill plate thing which - because we thought they looked a good idea with no oven, and easier to clean than grilling in the microwave - it cooked pork steaks beautifully.


You will probably have found that pork steaks here are the "flash-fry" type, i.e. about 5mm thick. If you want something a little more succulent, buy _cinta de lomo_ which is the pork loin without the bones and usually comes in various lengths (I usually by a complete one _(cinta entera)_ which is between 24 and 30 inches long and cut my pork steaks to about 2cm thick, after I have taken off a couple of roasting joints (won't apply if you don't have an oven although, you could probably use a microwave with grill) which I then spiral cut and the better half rolls them stuffed with dried fruits (our own sun drying) - peaches, plums, figs, raisins, apples.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

brocher said:


> Mind you we did buy a grill plate thing which - because we thought they looked a good idea with no oven, and easier to clean than grilling in the microwave - it cooked pork steaks beautifully.


A _plancha_ - great for meat, prawns, drop scones and eggs & bacon!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pyrex type casserole dish. Lidl have these on sale at the moment - rectangular and oval.


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