# Letter to Comment Recieved (Adverse Information)



## panesarkaran (Nov 14, 2012)

Hello Seniors/Fellow Expats,

I have been searching through the various threads trying to search to some answers related to my query, but I am not able to get some concrete results. That's why I am posting a new thread for the same. If its some how related to some other thread, then please merge it with that thread, but please your valuable insight into this case.

My niece has received a letter to comment from her CO stating that they have received some adverse information related to her previous employer with whom she was employed since 2006 till Aug, 2013.

CO has raised around 5 points in his letter after the people from Embassy had visited her previous employer for the purpose of verification.

From the points mentioned in the letter, it seems that investigating officers were not convinced of her job with her previous employer or it may also be possible that her previous employer intentionally did not testified about the actual facts due to the reason that she had left them in just 4 days. She resigned on 20th Aug & asked to be relieved by 24th Aug. Since then, she has been working at some other company after going through proper interview.

Her previous employer was a small time firm which never gave her any sort of proper documentation. She was only able to get an experience letter mentioning her job roles & responsibilities only after several requests. As far as salary was concerned, she was getting it in cash & that too after 2-3 months in one go.

I am looking forward in getting ways to prove to her CO about her previous job experience of over 6 years.

Any help would be much appreciated.


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## happybuddha (Sep 28, 2012)

panesarkaran said:


> From the points mentioned in the letter, it seems that investigating officers were not convinced of her job with her previous employer or it may also be possible that *her previous employer intentionally did not testified about the actual facts due to the reason that she had left them in just 4 days*. She resigned on 20th Aug & asked to be relieved by 24th Aug. Since then, she has been working at some other company after going through proper interview.
> 
> *Her previous employer was a small time firm which never gave her any sort of proper documentation*. She was only able to get an experience letter mentioning her job roles & responsibilities only after several requests. As far as salary was concerned, *she was getting it in cash & that too after 2-3 months* in one go.
> 
> I am looking forward in getting ways to prove to her CO about her *previous job experience of over 6 years.*


To me, this is confusing. You are saying that there were issues in verifying the experience of 4 days ? She worked only for 4 days with her previous employer and then you say she was paid once in 2 - 3 months. What is the actual story here ?


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## Guest (Nov 27, 2013)

Also says she was there 2006-2013 si something's not right


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## ahmed84 (Apr 3, 2013)

I think the poster means the applicant worked in that company from 2006-2013 and she left the company in very short notice (4 days) on 20th Aug which made the employer angry and as revenge didn't give the required information to the investigating case officer. 

I believe there is no way you work in a place for that long without getting any sort of documentation. She should look for any letters, notices, memos or emails related to her work and present it to the case officer. There must be some sort of documents. If she can't produce anything, then she can ask some of her colleagues to write statutory declaration that she worked with them.


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## panesarkaran (Nov 14, 2012)

ahmed84 .. you got the picture very clearly.
I am sorry If I may have confused others..... Here is the complete picture.

She was working in sales team which was comprising of only 2 persons & they were reporting to a manager .... who was ultimately reporting to the owner. So, there were only 3 employees & the owner.

Company was involved in real estate services like selling, renting, purchasing & leasing of commercial & residential properties. Its a small time firm.

1.) They never gave her any sort of documentation (like offer letter, appointment letter, promotion letter, increment letters, etc.).

2.) The salary was given in cash as the largest amount she was receiving was only around 14k & that only in 2013. Before than that she received only around 10k.

3.) They never gave her any sort of Form-16, as there was no tax deducted out of her salary at any time.

4.) She was able to get a Letter of experience & some salary slips & that too after a lot of requests to the manager & owner. These were the only documents that she was able to get hold off.

5.) One would say that there was no need of her to work for such an employer, but everybody has their own circumstances. She lives in a small city... so not much of employment opportunities were available for her. She was not in a position to move out of her city due to some personal reasons.

6.) Finally, she gave resign as she had got an good offer from a good real estate company & they hired her for the role of a Manager with a good salary package. She grabbed the opportunity on the spot. But I think, this played against her & her previous employer got angry & frustrated with her. They ultimately refused about all the facts related to her employment.

7.) Its very frustrating for her now, she worked for so long with them & now they are simply denying her employment period. They told the investigating officer that she was employed with them only from 2011 till 2013.

8.) Don't know what else they may have lied to the investigating officer. Now, her co-worker & manager are also refusing to give any sort of written document (like any sort of affidavit or any other document) that could show that she was employed with them.

It's getting very hard to prove her actual employment with that employer. Is there any way to prove her actual employment that was in real.

People get away with showing their fake documents & still end up securing VISA, but she was all real & now she is still on the verge of getting her VISA refused... great irony.


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi panesarkaran, 



> People get away with showing their fake documents & still end up securing VISA, but she was all real & now she is still on the verge of getting her VISA refused... great irony.


That's why DIBP performs employment verification - to flush out the non-genuine applicants who try to abuse the system. Since she only has very _limited documentation_ to support her employment claim it comes down to a _matter of credibility_ (= hers and her employer's). She really should have made sure to get an offer letter and relieving certificate . In other countries it is easier because employment records for individuals on a national or state level are more readily available and prev. employers cannot backpedal and say "Oh, but she never really worked for us." 

You have to admit that the overall picture looks slightly dodgy. As I see it there are two options and ideally she should pursue both:

a) *Look through all documentation*, bank account records etc. at home to see what other supporting documentation she can produce. How did she communicate with her employer about getting the reference letters? Is there a record of the communication? Are there _other employees at the company_ (accountant, former colleagues) that would be willing to sign a _statutory declaration_ to support her? 

b) *Talk to her previous employer* again in a civilized manner and ask additional supporting documents. She is understandably angry with her former boss but she has to put that aside if she wants another statement from him, for example a document listing her salary and work hours over the entire work period. It will not look very credible in any case because he lied to the inspectors once already. However, another third party has to confirm her employment period or I don't see much chance of succeeding.


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## tara.jatt (May 15, 2012)

There should be something... Something to prove the employment. In those 7 years there must be any office outing, project celebration or any other social aspect of your relation with colleagues. pictures of that? Just to prove you were part of that group. Also, any email correspondence, any Access card, badge, any client side identification in case you worked for employer at a client location? Any training you attended as part of job which employer paid, etc. etc. Any colleague who can testify that you worked there for 7 years. These kinds of proof are not direct employment proofs but can be used to support your claim and to show your employer is lying.

Still, I can not believe that someone spent 7 years at a job and still don't have any kind of proof.


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## panesarkaran (Nov 14, 2012)

Thank you very much espresso for the suggestions.

I am really in favor of wrong people not being allotted a VISA based on fake claims, bogus documents. India is already a High Risk country on their list, not sure what would be the next status for India on their list. 

Anyways, she had tried to talk to her co-worker & manager in order to secure their affidavits stating that she was working with them, but they are simply denying to sign on any sort of documentation. But they are willing to testify if they are contacted over the phone.

She had also tried to meet the owner (who had verified her details to investigating officer) but he was very furious with her. The owner told her that the investigating officers were having a very thick file of documentation containing all sort of information about their firm & other projects in which he was involved. He told that it was not good for him as they were having documentation from his wrong deeds as well (By Wrong deeds.. I mean to say that the investigating officer had managed to obtained some documentation from government office about the owner like the land deeds, his record with the government, his bank details, etc. There are a lot of scams in India involving land deeds, people buy the land at some rate & then sale it at some other rate & try to go away by not filling proper tax returns, etc.)
The owner also told her the investigating officer had threatened him to take strict actions against him if he gives any more documentation to my niece. I think either the Owner is now scared or he does not want to help her. He had also influenced her co-workers as well, as they are also not ready to sign on any sort of document.

As far as salary is concerned, she was getting it in cash, it was neither credited into her account nor any sort of check was given to her at any time.

Now, I have a concern here, I think the CO will give weight age to the report submitted by the investigating officer in any case against any sort of documentation submitted by her. I am not sure If she manages to get hold of some more documentation from the Owner, even then CO would be convinced or not. 

1.) What are the chances that CO would try to get the documentation verified again. I mean, we don't have any objection on getting the documentation verified, but not sure how the owner would handle it. He had already messed up the things in a big way.

2.) She had never filed the Income Tax Returns till now. What if she files her returns now for the previous years & provide those returns from previous years as supporting document to her claims, is it possible to get the decision in her favor.

3.) I think we can dig deeper & try to get hold off any previous employee & try to get an affidavit from him/her. Not sure, if the CO would admit it or not. There are still very good chances that the owner may dupe his claims as well, if the Co goes for anymore verification of the new documents submitted.

4.) What are the possibilities if she gives in an notarized affidavit (SD) on her behalf stating all the claims about her employment till now?

5.) She had managed to secure a good job at a good organization based on the total knowledge & experience obtained with her previous employer, Can we use this point in the reply to the CO.

6.) Her agent is trying to convince her to withdraw her application in order to get away from the 3 year ban that could be implemented on her & her family. But her Job Code is not anymore available in the Occupation List & she had invested all her life savings into & there seems to be no point in going back from here. She is trying to provide as much information as possible & hope for the good.


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## panesarkaran (Nov 14, 2012)

tara.jatt said:


> There should be something... Something to prove the employment. In those 7 years there must be any office outing, project celebration or any other social aspect of your relation with colleagues. pictures of that? Just to prove you were part of that group. Also, any email correspondence, any Access card, badge, any client side identification in case you worked for employer at a client location? Any training you attended as part of job which employer paid, etc. etc. Any colleague who can testify that you worked there for 7 years. These kinds of proof are not direct employment proofs but can be used to support your claim and to show your employer is lying.
> 
> Still, I can not believe that someone spent 7 years at a job and still don't have any kind of proof.


Even I cannot believe it, but I think everything is possible in India & that too in small cities, specially with the people who are complacent enough.

Anyways, I am just trying to gather as much information as possible in order pass it onto my niece.


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi panesarkaran,



> Anyways, she had tried to talk to her co-worker & manager in order to secure their affidavits stating that she was working with them, but they are simply denying to sign on any sort of documentation. But they are *willing to testify if they are contacted over the phone*.


Your niece should forward the contact details of the colleagues/managers to the CO and tell him/her that they have agreed to testify on her behalf but are afraid to sign anything because they may lose their jobs. Your niece should also mention that she is aware that the business dealings of her former employer were dodgy at best and that they did not part on good terms. 

1.) Sending out the investigating officers again would not solve anything. They have already established that your niece's former employer is a dodgy business person - possibly the kind of person who may agree to "pretend" that somebody worked at their company in exchange for money. The lack of documentation is not on her side. She either needs _credible references or documentation_ to back her case. 

2+3.) Self-declarations or tax returns filed now won't help - it looks to opportunistic and not credible.

5.) If she is on good terms with her current employer and if s/he knows about her current situation and is sympathetic, s/he may only serve as a character reference. 

Overall her chances are not good, if she does not produce substantive new evidence.


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## tara.jatt (May 15, 2012)

You can try to get some ex-employees to sign it, preferably from someone having a reliable job at a reputed company, so that atleast the credentials of person looks good. 



panesarkaran said:


> Anyways, she had tried to talk to her co-worker & manager in order to secure their affidavits stating that she was working with them, but they are simply denying to sign on any sort of documentation. But they are willing to testify if they are contacted over the phone.


This can not be true. The Visa officers of some other country are not supposed to investigate any wrong deeds of a person they are not even concerned about, and that too in person's home country. COs already have lot of work in hands. This simply can not be true. 



panesarkaran said:


> He told that it was not good for him as they were having documentation from his wrong deeds as well (By Wrong deeds.. I mean to say that the investigating officer had managed to obtained some documentation from government office about the owner like the land deeds, his record with the government, his bank details, etc. There are a lot of scams in India involving land deeds, people buy the land at some rate & then sale it at some other rate & try to go away by not filling proper tax returns, etc.)


Again, This can not be true, it is the CO who wants to get as many proofs as he can to verify your niece's claim. How will asking the owner not to give any document helps his cause?


panesarkaran said:


> The owner also told her the investigating officer had threatened him to take strict actions against him if he gives any more documentation to my niece.


There is no doubt about it. 


panesarkaran said:


> Now, I have a concern here, I think the CO will give weight age to the report submitted by the investigating officer.


You can safely assume 100% chances of going thru the same as they have every possible reason to investigate due to the whole suspicious situation.


panesarkaran said:


> 1.) What are the chances that CO would try to get the documentation verified again.



Simply doing this wont help your case, there are lot more questions for you to answer. Although this can be a good step but with a possible question about intentions. Ex. If you did not follow rules of your home country (Filing tax on time) how are you suppose to make CO believe that you will follow their country's rule?


panesarkaran said:


> 2.) She had never filed the Income Tax Returns till now. What if she files her returns now for the previous years & provide those returns from previous years as supporting document to her claims, is it possible to get the decision in her favor.


This seems to be a good advise, provided the situation of your case.


panesarkaran said:


> 6.) Her agent is trying to convince her to withdraw her application in order to get away from the 3 year ban that could be implemented on her & her family.



I want to believe your story but at every step something sounds phony about the job. When you say anything is possible in India and about all the wrong doings, how can you convince the CO to get to believe to a person on phone who claims to be your niece's colleague when the guy CO met in person refused to testify about the job? Just put yourself in CO shoes and think if you can not prove the job documents, how can you prove the documents you provided are not fake? Your niece's situation looks like very risky and I would highly recommend you to talk to a MARA registered agent and not a local desi agent shops.


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## panesarkaran (Nov 14, 2012)

tara.jatt said:


> I want to believe your story but at every step something sounds phony about the job. When you say anything is possible in India and about all the wrong doings, how can you convince the CO to get to believe to a person on phone who claims to be your niece's colleague when the guy CO met in person refused to testify about the job? Just put yourself in CO shoes and think if you can not prove the job documents, how can you prove the documents you provided are not fake? Your niece's situation looks like very risky and I would highly recommend you to talk to a MARA registered agent and not a local desi agent shops.


That's true, there is no proper assurance of the fact about the person who is verifying about anybody else over the phone, as one cannot see that persons face. Its becomes more difficult if its for some purpose like this.

India is already a High Risk country on their list and it is so because of some wrong people getting away with their wrong deeds, not sure what would be the next status for India on their list.

I had also suggested my niece to withdraw her application as it looks very difficult to prove her employment without the help of her previous employer. But then, that is also a very big decision for her. Forgetting about all the investment she had done till now.

She never filed for any Tax Returns till now because she was not eligible for tax deductions as her salary was very less.

The saddest part is that a person is not able to prove his real time employment due to his/her own complacency (she stuck with that same doggy employer for so long) & now it is playing against his/herself.

And there seems to be no good option to help this poor lady.


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## Sunlight11 (Apr 27, 2013)

She may also take declarations from her previous clients and current management (that they hired her based on her extensive previous experience at company XYZ).


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## panesarkaran (Nov 14, 2012)

Sunlight11 said:


> She may also take declarations from her previous clients and current management (that they hired her based on her extensive previous experience at company XYZ).


She had already provided the offer & appointment letter for the new employer to the Co, but investigating officer only visited her older employer. They never visited or called her new employer.

Moreover, the HR at new employer told my niece that its against company policies to issue any sort of reference letter.


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## Sunlight11 (Apr 27, 2013)

panesarkaran said:


> She had already provided the offer & appointment letter for the new employer to the Co, but investigating officer only visited her older employer. They never visited or called her new employer.
> 
> Moreover, the HR at new employer told my niece that its against company policies to issue any sort of reference letter.


Declarations on stamp paper can be given if Reference Letter is not available. Look the only way I see out is as many declarations as possible from various other sources, so she has to manage those, without all these the Visa Officer will be in extremely tight situation to issue the Visa. 

As she didn't submit proper documentation at the beginning anyway, she has to avail to whatever she can and provide as much as possible.

Ask her to request extensively to get the declarations if that's whats required.


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## panesarkaran (Nov 14, 2012)

Thank you very much to all the helpful persons... I have already suggested my niece to withdraw her application if she is not able to prove her employment (which was already genuine) due to lack of supporting documents.


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## jpadda001 (Jan 15, 2012)

on 10th of July i have received Invitation to comment on information for a skilled regional sponsored 489 visa. I have applied under Library Technician.

Adverse information received.

Question 1. You have no formal training in the field of Library Technician?

answer1. It is admitted that I possess no formal training in the field of Library Technician. But at the same time, it is also a true fact that I am on this job for the last over five years and have been performing all my duties as a library technician to the full satisfaction of school management.
I had applied my case for skill assessment to vetassess on the basis of two graduate degrees in science and education, which were rated as being at the required level, and over three years ‘as a library technician. On the basis of these qualifications, my skill assessment was adjudged positive by vetassess (Copy attached). Afterwards on the basis of same qualification I was granted state sponsorship By Northern Territory Government (Copy of sponsorship attached).
ANZSCO 399312 prescribes the following qualifications for the post of Library Technician
AQF Associate Degree, Advanced Diploma, Diploma.
At least three years of relevant experience may substitute for the formal qualifications.
So I fully meet the qualifications prescribed for the post


Question 2. The library where you claim to work is a very basic library and does not use any library software and all record is hand written?

Answer 2. Mohindra Public School, Dialpur, where I am employed as a Library Technician is well equipped with the latest state-of-the-art teaching aids like Smart Class system and other audio visual aids. A well equipped computer lab is also in place. So it would be gross injustice to rate this infrastructure as primitive.
So far as the immigration officer’s assessment of the school library as being of a small scale is concerned, let me bring it to your kind notice that as per prescribed by Punjab School Education Board (The highest department dealing with education which grants affiliation to privately run schools in the state), state that before applying for affiliation, an institution shall acquire books for its library worth Rs 40,000/-and a room of size 15’X25’ (Copy of relevant portion attached).
Affiliation was granted to my school since my school library is well stocked with books and met the criterion prescribed by state education department.(Copy attached). Moreover keeping in view the strength of students numbering about 700, it cannot be termed as a small scale library.
Further the immigration officer was also informed that the school library is equipped with computer, scanner, printer, photocopier and wi-fi system from where I operate and control the smart class system and audio visual devices .Also the relevant latest information available on the net is downloaded and provided to the teachers, if needed.




Question 3. The duties mention in reference letter do not actually reflect the actual duties performed by yourself in the Library?

answer 3. The duties that I informed the immigration officer as being performed by me as a Library Technician as the same as were being performed by me when I applied my case for skill assessment to vatassess. The same information was provided to the vatassess authorities when I was interviewed on the phone. Afterwards on the basis of same qualification I was granted state sponsorship By Northern Territory Government. So I can’t tell what made immigration officer conclude that the duties mentioned in the reference letter do not accurately reflect the duties performed by me in the library.


i have made some strong answers on that questions to defend myself.

If CO think that i am not eligible for Library Technician then how come my assessment was positive and also state sponsor?

one more thing i want to tell you that the phone interview was conduct fully in Punjabi. call was from Delhi embassy and the lady she was speaking purely Punjabi. The CO from Australia sent this letter and she said our case officer in Delhi raise this adverse information.

kindly reply your views on this

thanks.


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## panesarkaran (Nov 14, 2012)

jpadda001 said:


> on 10th of July i have received Invitation to comment on information for a skilled regional sponsored 489 visa. I have applied under Library Technician.
> 
> Adverse information received.
> 
> ...




Brother..... I would suggest to be a little soft while replying to them, they are only doing their duty & they are just trying to follow the rules.

As per my knowledge till now, If some adverse information has been found in any case, then the CO would always favor the report submitted by their counter part in Delhi Embassy (not only because they are from the same bigger team, but also because the CO in Oz believes about the findings of the team in India to be true & they also expect the India team to work truly to their abilities.

Now about your case...... There are 2 things that you can do in this case: -

1.) Either withdraw the case right now & be safe from any sort of restrictions for future.

2.) Or go ahead with strong supportive documents that prove the adverse report to be false & keep your fingers crossed. Hopefully everything would be Ok.



In my opinion (which I am thinking of as a CO, not just me): -

1.) A library with books worth Rs. 40k is not well equipped for serving students of around 700.
2.) What if out of these 700 students in the school, mostly are junior wing students who may not be using all these books & thus there may be no need to maintain a proper library for the school.
3..) A smart Class equipment, computer, printer & scanner cannot only be termed as a full fledged library. There has to be more than that like proper software in order to manage all the status of the books. Also, a proper online record has to be maintained for the same like which book is assigned to whom for how much time. Also, when a book was issued to some one & when it was returned. I have seen special kind of software being used in Libraries across Chandigarh & UK.
4.) If all this is being managed manually in hard copy, then there is a very good chance that this library is not a proper full fledged library which the candidate has claimed to be.


You also mentioned that the lady from Delhi Embassy was talking in Punjabi about the same. Then, there is a very good chance that she may be well known to the school or the area where the school is situated.

Moreover, I have not come across any case in which the team from Delhi may have not visited the premises for inspection & verification at the employer's door steps. In most of the cases, people from Delhi first call the candidate & then around 3 months later they visit the employer's office for the same.

There is a very good chance that they may have visited the school may be in your absence.

In the end, I would suggest to ONLY go ahead with the same IF you would be able to prove your claims supported with proper documentation, not just with speculations & claims without any documentation. Focus on the points raised by the CO & try to procure proper documentation from all the available sources (including the school as well).

DIBP always reserves the right to investigate/verify any of the claims even if they were duly approved by the assessing authority or State itself because final saying is always from DIBP.

Keep your fingers crossed buddy & don't take anything said from myself in wrong way. I am just trying to help (although my wording may be harsh but it may be true).


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## boxofchoc (Jul 2, 2015)

This is really sad, best of luck


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## jpadda001 (Jan 15, 2012)

panesarkaran said:


> Brother..... I would suggest to be a little soft while replying to them, they are only doing their duty & they are just trying to follow the rules.
> 
> As per my knowledge till now, If some adverse information has been found in any case, then the CO would always favor the report submitted by their counter part in Delhi Embassy (not only because they are from the same bigger team, but also because the CO in Oz believes about the findings of the team in India to be true & they also expect the India team to work truly to their abilities.
> 
> ...


thanks you sir,

currently i am collecting supportive documents from school and from myself. I think i have some strong evidence to defend my self. i will not loose the hope and will fight till end.


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## vicky26 (Mar 13, 2015)

HI JPADDA001,

Have you recieved your grant?? iam also in the same situation. please reply ASAP...

Thanks/Vignesh


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## samage (Jul 9, 2015)

vicky26 said:


> HI JPADDA001,
> 
> Have you recieved your grant?? iam also in the same situation. please reply ASAP...
> 
> Thanks/Vignesh


I received this letter on 22-Dec (Emp could not verified as DIBP Made several attempts but could not connect with my employer) and i sent response on 13-January by explain possible reason not to connect and given 10 more additional proofs. Till date no update.

Any body got visa after this letter ??


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