# Is this legal?



## Guest (Jul 19, 2010)

I did rent an apartment in May 2009. We did meet in the apartment in order to sign the contract, I did pay the deposit and the first month of rent. It was only after a while that I did notice that the man who did sign the apartment was not the owner! He is also nowhere in the contract mentioned as the representative of the owner. The owner is a woman. Her name does not seem to be related to the man who did sign, but since in 
Spain names are something special... she still could be his wife. I am just wondering if this is not another trick to do things in a "regular..." way and eventually put the renter in a difficult position.
Thanks for answering, if you can, Eva33


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Eva33 said:


> I did rent an apartment in May 2009. We did meet in the apartment in order to sign the contract, I did pay the deposit and the first month of rent. It was only after a while that I did notice that the man who did sign the apartment was not the owner! He is also nowhere in the contract mentioned as the representative of the owner. The owner is a woman. Her name does not seem to be related to the man who did sign, but since in
> Spain names are something special... she still could be his wife. I am just wondering if this is not another trick to do things in a "regular..." way and eventually put the renter in a difficult position.
> Thanks for answering, if you can, Eva33


Usually a rental contract will say that it is between the two people who sign it, (or renter & rental company) - or legal representative of one of them (or of the company), and that representative will be named

your case definitely sounds a bit odd


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> Usually a rental contract will say that it is between the two people who sign it, (or renter & rental company) - or legal representative of one of them (or of the company), and that representative will be named
> 
> your case definitely sounds a bit odd


However, you have been there for more than a year. Any problems so far? Are you anticipating any?:noidea:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jimenato said:


> However, you have been there for more than a year. Any problems so far? Are you anticipating any?:noidea:


that was my next question


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

When we first came here we stayed in my son's house and were so keen to move out and find a larger garden for our dog that we agreed to rent a ground-floor piso with enclosed garden rather too hastily. We saw the advert in Sur from an agent and responded. 
The contract was in the owner's name -no address -but the 'agent' -a Latina woman with a Morroccan partner -signed it.
We began to suspect that the owner was unaware that we were occupying his property after several odd things happened -demands for 300 euros for repairs that should have cost around 30 and so on. We were told to pay the rent into a French bank account....
We paid two months deposit of 1800 euros and as soon as we realised the agent could be a crook we stopped paying rent and stayed there for two months until our deposit had been used up.
One morning after we had told her what we thought of her we found a rear window of our LandRover had been smashed. It was the only car in the garage to have been damaged and the 'agent' had a key...
I wanted to throw a Molotov cocktail over their yard wall but my partner who is wiser and more moderate restrained me.
If anyone wants to know more about this evil woman and her equally thieving partner feel free to pm me. She is still advertising.


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> that was my next question


No, we actually had no problems and we are moving out in one week, after respecting our side of the contract and giving more as the one month notice. So I hope there will be no problems and maybe (there are no damages made by us) even get our deposit back...


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> When we first came here we stayed in my son's house and were so keen to move out and find a larger garden for our dog that we agreed to rent a ground-floor piso with enclosed garden rather too hastily. We saw the advert in Sur from an agent and responded.
> The contract was in the owner's name -no address -but the 'agent' -a Latina woman with a Morroccan partner -signed it.
> We began to suspect that the owner was unaware that we were occupying his property after several odd things happened -demands for 300 euros for repairs that should have cost around 30 and so on. We were told to pay the rent into a French bank account....
> We paid two months deposit of 1800 euros and as soon as we realised the agent could be a crook we stopped paying rent and stayed there for two months until our deposit had been used up.
> ...


The lady mentioned in our contract is the owner of the place. She even came by when we had a problem with the washing machine and was actually very nice and helpful. The only thing which I found strange and a little suspect is that she did not sign the contract herself, which was between her-as the owner- and me- as the renter-. I know only the first name of the man who came to sign the contract and I am not sure how he is exactly related to the owner. I mean if they want/could sell the property before the 5 years, this could be a good trick to make it possible. But maybe I am getting a little paranoid after all the things happen to me in Spain...Maybe the best thing is take a gestor or a lawyer with you when signing a contract.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Eva33 said:


> The lady mentioned in our contract is the owner of the place. She even came by when we had a problem with the washing machine and was actually very nice and helpful. The only thing which I found strange and a little suspect is that she did not sign the contract herself, which was between her-as the owner- and me- as the renter-. I know only the first name of the man who came to sign the contract and I am not sure how he is exactly related to the owner. I mean if they want/could sell the property before the 5 years, this could be a good trick to make it possible. But maybe I am getting a little paranoid after all the things happen to me in Spain...Maybe the best thing is take a gestor or a lawyer with you when signing a contract.


I don't think you need to go that far if you are dealing with a bona fide agent and you have a properly drawn up legally binding contract.
Long-term rentalcontracts are normally for eleven months so if you have a five-year contract I would think that you will be 'safe' for five years.
If they want to sell the property surely they would be entitled to anyway?


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I don't think you need to go that far if you are dealing with a bona fide agent and you have a properly drawn up legally binding contract.
> Long-term rentalcontracts are normally for eleven months so if you have a five-year contract I would think that you will be 'safe' for five years.
> If they want to sell the property surely they would be entitled to anyway?


Long term rentals in Spain are for one year and have to be extended by the owner up to five years. Ley de arrendamientos urbanos The renter is free to leave after the first year by giving one month of notice in advance. Of course one is free to make other special agreements between the owner and renter, but the LAU law is the standard. Also the owner is only entitled to sell the property if the buyer (new owner) takes over the rental contract. In other words: They cannot put you out before the five years are fulfilled.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Eva33 said:


> Long term rentals in Spain are for one year and have to be extended by the owner up to five years. Ley de arrendamientos urbanos The renter is free to leave after the first year by giving one month of notice in advance. Of course one is free to make other special agreements between the owner and renter, but the LAU law is the standard. Also the owner is only entitled to sell the property if the buyer (new owner) takes over the rental contract. In other words: They cannot put you out before the five years are fulfilled.


Are they for one year or eleven months? And is the owner obliged to renew for five years?
There is a distinction between a contrato vivienda and a contrato temporada - the latter can be extended up to a year (eleven months seems the norm for some reason) but the tenant has no right of renewal. Most 'long term' rentals seem to be temporada.


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

This is an extract from the LAU:

1. La duración del arrendamiento será libremente pactada por las partes. The duration of the lease will be freely agreed between the parties. Si ésta fuera inferior a cinco años, llegado el día del vencimiento del contrato, éste se prorrogará obligatoriamente por plazos anuales hasta que el arrendamiento alcance una duración mínima de cinco años, salvo que el arrendatario manifieste al arrendador con treinta días de antelación como mínimo a la fecha de terminación del contrato o de cualquiera de las prórrogas, su voluntad de no renovarlo. If it is less than five years, when the day the contract expires, it will be extended by mandatory annual installments until the lease reaches a minimum term of five years, unless the tenant to the landlord stating thirty days in advance at least the date of termination of the contract or any extensions, their intention not to renew it.

El plazo comenzará a contarse desde la fecha del contrato o desde la puesta del inmueble a disposición del arrendatario si ésta fuere posterior. This time limit begins to run from the date of the agreement or put the property available to the tenant if it is later. " Corresponderá al arrendatario la prueba de la fecha de la puesta a disposición. Tenant is for the proof of the date of the provision.

2. 2. Se entenderán celebrados por un año los arrendamientos para los que no se haya estipulado plazo de duración o éste sea indeterminado, sin perjuicio del derecho de prórroga anual para el arrendatario, en los términos resultantes del apartado anterior. Shall be deemed concluded for one year leases for which no deadline has been specified or it is indeterminate duration, subject to annual renewal right for the tenant, resulting in the terms above.

HTH


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Calas felices said:


> This is an extract from the LAU:
> 
> 1. La duración del arrendamiento será libremente pactada por las partes. The duration of the lease will be freely agreed between the parties. Si ésta fuera inferior a cinco años, llegado el día del vencimiento del contrato, éste se prorrogará obligatoriamente por plazos anuales hasta que el arrendamiento alcance una duración mínima de cinco años, salvo que el arrendatario manifieste al arrendador con treinta días de antelación como mínimo a la fecha de terminación del contrato o de cualquiera de las prórrogas, su voluntad de no renovarlo. If it is less than five years, when the day the contract expires, it will be extended by mandatory annual installments until the lease reaches a minimum term of five years, unless the tenant to the landlord stating thirty days in advance at least the date of termination of the contract or any extensions, their intention not to renew it.
> 
> ...


All of which applies solely to contratos viviendas.
Not to contratos temporadas.

*'A contract under 12 months is not necessarily of short term duration. Under Spanish law rental contract terms (for accommodation purposes) are to be freely agreed between the parties but if the tenant can prove that this property has become his habitual home (not a too difficult task) he will be entitled to extend the term up to 5 years.* '

Most landlords on the Costas seem to prefer a contrato temporada as it gives them more flexibility but will happily extend on a yearly basis, all things being equal.
Our contract is temporada -this is clearly stated at the heading of the document -but our landlord is happy to extend annually. We had to provide an address as our 'permanent' home and this appears on the contract.


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2010)

Calas felices said:


> This is an extract from the LAU:
> 
> 1. La duración del arrendamiento será libremente pactada por las partes. The duration of the lease will be freely agreed between the parties. Si ésta fuera inferior a cinco años, llegado el día del vencimiento del contrato, éste se prorrogará obligatoriamente por plazos anuales hasta que el arrendamiento alcance una duración mínima de cinco años, salvo que el arrendatario manifieste al arrendador con treinta días de antelación como mínimo a la fecha de terminación del contrato o de cualquiera de las prórrogas, su voluntad de no renovarlo. If it is less than five years, when the day the contract expires, it will be extended by mandatory annual installments until the lease reaches a minimum term of five years, unless the tenant to the landlord stating thirty days in advance at least the date of termination of the contract or any extensions, their intention not to renew it.
> 
> ...


Since this passage citations are out of context, they can be a little confusing and subject to miss- interpretation. 11 month contracts are not long term, they are temporary contracts ( contrato de temporada) and the owner has NO obligation to extend them to the 5 years period. This is the big the difference one has to be aware of while renting. If you have have a 11 month contract, you have no rights to stay longer, if you have 1 year, you can stay until 5 years.


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> All of which applies solely to contratos viviendas.
> Not to contratos temporadas.
> 
> *'A contract under 12 months is not necessarily of short term duration. Under Spanish law rental contract terms (for accommodation purposes) are to be freely agreed between the parties but if the tenant can prove that this property has become his habitual home (not a too difficult task) he will be entitled to extend the term up to 5 years.* '
> ...


Yes, I am sure your landlord is happy to extend your contract, but he does NOT have to. If you would have a 1 year contract (long term) he would have to extend your contract up to 5 years, and you could still go, by giving 30 days notice in advance, after the one year is achieved.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Eva33 said:


> Yes, I am sure your landlord is happy to extend your contract, but he does NOT have to. If you would have a 1 year contract (long term) he would have to extend your contract up to 5 years, and you could still go, by giving 30 days notice in advance, after the one year is achieved.



Quite. That is the point I was trying to make to calas felices.


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