# Temporary or first residence



## Crosscountry (Oct 28, 2016)

Hi all searching for detsils but cant seem to find anything regarding amounts needed . one just says you need to sign an affidávit saying you have sufficient to live on / support yourself . 
I found a figure of just ovef s 1000 a month but seemed to aplly to permanent residrnce application .
Also is the language still needed when applying for permanent residenxe ? i ensiked SEF but they replied to contact consulate in country of residence .


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## proud.to.be.EUROPEAN (Feb 14, 2020)

Can you please put some effort in asking clear and specific questions.

First explain what nationality you are, what are you looking to achieve and when.


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

Crosscountry said:


> Hi all searching for detsils but cant seem to find anything regarding amounts needed . one just says you need to sign an affidávit saying you have sufficient to live on / support yourself .
> I found a figure of just ovef s 1000 a month but seemed to aplly to permanent residrnce application .
> Also is the language still needed when applying for permanent residenxe ? i ensiked SEF but they replied to contact consulate in country of residence .


The simple answer is that it depends where you will be applying as no two offices will ever give you the same answer. I am a UK citizen if that makes any difference and was not asked for any proof. I understand that if asked, it is generally accepted to be the minimum wage in the country. I think that at the moment that is €700 p.m.

As far as language is concerned, as has previously been said, that all depends on your nationality and type of entry that you will be applying for.


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## Crosscountry (Oct 28, 2016)

Thought the title made what i am asking self evident . I am asking what level of income is required for residency . I sm uk born but living in Spain , here in Spain the levels are stated even for temporary residence after three months snd then sgsun when you apply for permanent residence after 5 years . 
I have searched on google and been redirected to SEF but still no concrete figures . We are considering moving before the end of the transition period but if stated income required us ief 1200 a month per person then we could not meet this income .


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## Pgmills (Jan 19, 2015)

If you are a Brit then you need no income proof whatsoever. The WA states that all the old rules apply until 31/12/2020. 
French flag is confusing if you are currently living in Spain!


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## Crosscountry (Oct 28, 2016)

Pgmills said:


> If you are a Brit then you need no income proof whatsoever. The WA states that all the old rules apply until 31/12/2020.
> French flag is confusing if you are currently living in Spain!


Thank you for the reply . I still thought i had read that once you had completed your 5 years and applying for residency you had to prove sufficient income . What i may think sufficient and the authorities do are two different things 

No idea why the french flag .


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## Pgmills (Jan 19, 2015)

You might have read it but it ain’t true....


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## Strontium (Sep 16, 2015)

You'll get a dose of Portuguese "variable application of rules" when you go into some office here and pedantically demand they comply with the "rules" - as you see them ie. from selected internet quotes. They'll probably ask you to wait outside then go to lunch and/or long weekend and forget about you so Good luck with that.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

I didn't have to prove what resources I had, but here is what the Withdrawal Agreement says:

Withdrawal Agreement
ARTICLE 18
Issuance of residence documents 
1.	The host State may require Union citizens or United Kingdom nationals, their respective family members and other persons, who reside in its territory in accordance with the conditions set out in this Title, to apply for a new residence status which confers the rights under this Title and a document evidencing such status which may be in a digital form. Applying for such a residence status shall be subject to the following conditions:
[…]
(k) the host State may only require Union citizens and United Kingdom nationals to present, in addition to the identity documents referred to in point (i) of this paragraph, the following supporting documents as referred to in Article 8(3) of Directive 2004/38/EC:
(i) where they reside in the host State in accordance with point (a) of Article 7(1) of Directive 2004/38/EC as workers or self-employed, a confirmation of engagement from the employer or a certificate of employment, or proof that they are self-employed; 
(ii) where they reside in the host State in accordance with point (b) of Article 7(1) of Directive 2004/38/EC as economically inactive persons, evidence that they have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host State during their period of residence and that they have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host State; or 
(iii) where they reside in the host State in accordance with point (c) of Article 7(1) of Directive 2004/38/EC as students, proof of enrolment at an establishment accredited or financed by the host State on the basis of its legislation or administrative practice, proof of comprehensive sickness insurance cover, and a declaration or equivalent means of proof, that they have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host State during their period of residence. The host State may not require such declarations to refer to any specific amount of resources. 

With regard to the condition of sufficient resources, Article 8(4) of Directive 2004/38/EC shall apply.

... and Article 8.4 refers to the social assistance threshold, which I believe is 658.2 euros/person/month in Portugal, though I stand to be corrected on that.


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## Pgmills (Jan 19, 2015)

vianina said:


> I didn't have to prove what resources I had, but here is what the Withdrawal Agreement says:
> 
> Withdrawal Agreement
> ARTICLE 18
> ...



Absolutely correct but the OP was asking about an application being made in the current year and thus IMHO the withdrawal agreement wording will not apply to his application.


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## Crosscountry (Oct 28, 2016)

Viannia 

What i sm trying to establish is if i come this year it would be under the WA and do still classed as EU . 
However , going by how it was in Spain , i needed to prove resources after three months but when i changed to permanent residence after 5 years no . Reading online Portugal serms to not require any proof initially but after 5 years when applying for permanent residence . 

People in Spain even if they arrive now once they apply for even temporary residence after three months they need to prove they have health care , income etc . After 5 years same sgain for permanent residence but on Eu income levels not Third Country Nationals . 

Thats interesting as in Spain they have said people already with a permanent residence will be able to just swap , no documents unless they choose to do a criminal check . 

I


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

You're spot on there, Pgmills. But the current directive also allows the receiving state to ask for proof of resources:

3. For the registration certificate to be issued, Member States may only require that

—

Union citizens to whom point (a) of Article 7(1) applies present a valid identity card or passport, a confirmation of engagement from the employer or a certificate of employment, or proof that they are self-employed persons;

Union citizens to whom point (b) of Article 7(1) applies present a valid identity card or passport and provide proof that they satisfy the conditions laid down therein;


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## Crosscountry (Oct 28, 2016)

Anyone thanks everyone . I guess will just stick where we are as we know what is what lol have permanent residence etc . 

Just kept reading that Portugal was bring more flexible re Brexit . Still looking at properties even inland , needing renovating and still not cheap . Plus back to the minefield of making sure its legal , can be renovated and licences obtained et pc


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

Crosscountry, this year you would be coming under Directive 2004/38/EC. Tevihe Camara Municipal can, but might not, ask you for proof of resources. If they do, I believe you will be OK with 1200 euros/person, since that is double the social assistance threshold. 

My experience is recent, and in the north of Portugal. I was asked for the NIF, evidence that I had arrived in the country three months prior, my apartment purchase deed, and my passport.


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

Crosscountry you would be less confused if you stopped trying to compare Portugal with Spain. Portugal operates its own version of the rules. Not only that, but every Câmara/SEF will work to its own interpretation of those rules and, more often than not, people within the same office will also have differing versions. It's just the same with driving licences at IMT and any other bureaucratic process. 

I've been through the temporary and permanent residency processes in Coimbra and not once have I been asked about income or health care. Not only that, but neither process was completed within the timescales that are laid down as I've never been sure whether I would be staying or not.


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## Crosscountry (Oct 28, 2016)

JohnBoy said:


> Crosscountry you would be less confused if you stopped trying to compare Portugal with Spain. Portugal operates its own version of the rules. Not only that, but every Câmara/SEF will work to its own interpretation of those rules and, more often than not, people within the same office will also have differing versions. It's just the same with driving licences at IMT and any other bureaucratic process.
> 
> I've been through the temporary and permanent residency processes in Coimbra and not once have I been asked about income or health care. Not only that, but neither process was completed within the timescales that are laid down as I've never been sure whether I would be staying or not.


Yes i understand that but presumably the directives under the WA apply equally to all EU countries .


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

Things are not uniform over the EU, or within countries for that matter. The WA, or alternatively the directive now in force, 2004/38/EC, set out the rights and responsibilities of member states. Not all member states will invoke the right to demand proof of income. Portugal mostly doesn't. However, different town halls read the rules differently.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

JohnBoy, may I ask what you had to provide for permanent residency and how long it took to be granted after you applied?


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## JohnBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

vianina said:


> JohnBoy, may I ask what you had to provide for permanent residency and how long it took to be granted after you applied?


From (poor!) memory:

My temporary residency certificate

Two passport style photos

Passport + two photocopies

€15

I had to return to SEF a week later to pick up my card.


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## vianina (Feb 25, 2020)

Thank you!


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