# Hoping for Italian Citizenship by Ancestry



## Webmommy (Nov 1, 2016)

Hello and thank you for taking the time to read my question. I am a US Citizen, 49 year old woman. My father was born in the US in 1935 to my grandparents.

His Dad - born here, parents born in Italy
My dad -born in boston
His Mom - born in Italy, parents born in Italy 

My dad was born in 1935 and I was born in 1967.

Am I on the right track? No one renounced their Italian citizenship at any time. 
Both my parents are deceased. 

Any advice would be most appreciated.

Also, would my children be eligible?


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

The key point is to prove that your father's paternal grandfather (born in Italy, correct? Or am I one generation off?) was still an Italian citizen at the time your father's father was born.

In this case, there is little to be gained by worrying about the female line; prior to the modern Italian constitution (January 1, 1949), Italian citizenship was passed only through the male line. There have been numerous successful court cases challenging this rule, but most of them have involved "relatively recent" births (not too much prior to 1949), and that doesn't seem to be the case here. On the other hand, not to be ruled out entirely if it is the only option left open to you.

So, anyway, you need to prove an unbroken chain of male lineage beginning with the most recent certifiable Italian and progressing up through your father. Depending on the timeframe, this can be difficult. 

When did your great-grandfather emigrate to the US?

In what year was your grandfather born?

Do you know exactly where your great-grandfather was born?


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## Webmommy (Nov 1, 2016)

My dad was born in Boston, his dad born here, but the grandparents, my dad's grandparents were born in Italy. I was born in 1967. My great grandfather emigrated here in the very early 1900s. I have "some" documents based on the packet of my grandmother's citizenship papers. She was born in Italy and emigrated here with her mother in 1906.

My great grandfather came here first to get a job, set up a home and prepare for my great grandmother and my grandmother. They arrived at Ellis Island and made their way to Boston. I'm quite excited about the prospect of this, especially for my children as well. The ancestry and heritage is wonderful.

My great grandfather was born in Augustus, Sicily as well as my great grandmother and grandmother. The year I'm not too sure, but one of the documents is in Italian. I know the year is important there from what I can figure out. Also I need to research the year of my grandfather's birth as well. Wait, I found his death certificate, my grandfather died in 1963 and was 65 at the time of his death, so 1898 (wow).


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

Okay, so here's the upshot: this is probably not impossible but it could be difficult.

Ideally, your great-grandfather eventually became a naturalized US citizen; of course, *after* your grandfather was born. I say "ideally" because it is far easier to prove that something (naturalization) happened than to prove that it did not. All of this is made worse if your grandfather arrived in the US prior to 1906. For naturalizations that occurred after September, 1906, the USCIS (and, often, the National Archives) has excellent records; prior to that date, naturalizations were handled exclusively by state and local jurisdictions - even small town justices of the peace - and there is no single source for record searches.

There is a lot of work to be done, but two of the most important pieces are figuring out exactly what town in Italy your great-grandfather came from and obtaining his birth certificate from that town. And, secondly, proving that your great-grandfather naturalized *after* your grandfather was born or that he never naturalized at all.

I suggest you go to Italian Dual Citizenship Help - Italian citizenship message board and forum where you will find a number of people who can offer more complete guidance regarding the process and, if you need help with genealogical research, you won't find a better site than Italian Genealogy Forum.


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## panama rick (Oct 15, 2014)

Hi Webmommy, just another piece of info. My wife is currently going through the citizenship process. She had to go through her grandmother (born 1890's) as we couldn't find a marriage cert. Two weeks ago our attorney notified her that the courts approved her request. I mention this as an alternative as it is a more expensive process. The paternal side is much easier. Best of luck. Rick


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

panama rick said:


> Hi Webmommy, just another piece of info. My wife is currently going through the citizenship process. She had to go through her grandmother (born 1890's) as we couldn't find a marriage cert. Two weeks ago our attorney notified her that the courts approved her request. I mention this as an alternative as it is a more expensive process. The paternal side is much easier. Best of luck. Rick


That is great news, Rick. Is your attorney the usual guy (Luigi Paiano) or someone else?


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## Webmommy (Nov 1, 2016)

I already have a copy of my grandfather's birth certificate (my dad's dad), then I also have my grandparent's marriage certificate (my dad's mom and dad), the death certificate of my dad's dad, as well as a copy of an Italian passport all in Italian that I *think* is my dad's grandfather, but I cannot be absolutely sure because, well, it's in Italian!  

I have these papers that are all attached to a letter my grandmother (dad's mom) wrote on the day of her citizenship party when she became a US citizen. I just happened upon them when I bought my parent's house and found the documents. Not bad I think for a start!


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

That is a good start.

Just so you are aware, all of the required documents will have to be (more than likely) replaced with new copies which are (definitely) certified by the issuing agency. Also, depending on exactly where you submit your application for recognition, you may need all documents for both sides of the line (father/mother, grandfather/grandmother, great-grandfather/great-grandfather) or for only the people in the direct line (father, grandfather, great-grandfather).

Where will you be applying? If not directly in Italy, then you must apply at the Italian consulate which serves the location where you are legally resident. Each consulate is different; some require more documentation than others.

As to an earlier question, if you are recognized as an Italian citizen, then your minor children are immediately recognized as well. Adult children would have to apply after your case is complete, but that is a simple matter.


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## panama rick (Oct 15, 2014)

It is Luigi Paiano. He's been great. It's also taken less time than he estimated. We started in March and were notified a month ago. We now wait for the administrative process to run it's course.


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## Webmommy (Nov 1, 2016)

panama rick said:


> It is Luigi Paiano. He's been great. It's also taken less time than he estimated. We started in March and were notified a month ago. We now wait for the administrative process to run it's course.


Thank you for the name. When you hire his services, does he do the acquisition of the paperwork and all other issues or do you provide him with the information and he processes the application and such? Thank you.


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

panama rick said:


> It is Luigi Paiano. He's been great. It's also taken less time than he estimated. We started in March and were notified a month ago. We now wait for the administrative process to run it's course.


That's awesome. Sig. Paiano has been having great success with these cases.


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## panama rick (Oct 15, 2014)

It's the applicant's responsibility to gather all necessary documents. USCIS will provide you any documents regarding naturalization. You'll need to locate birth certificates, marriage certificates etc. Also, if you have family members who might want to join the process that will help to lower your costs as he charges less for subsequent applicants as some documentation is redundant. I hope this helps. Feel free to ask more questions, I will try to answer them as best I can. Rick


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

panama rick said:


> It's the applicant's responsibility to gather all necessary documents. USCIS will provide you any documents regarding naturalization. You'll need to locate birth certificates, marriage certificates etc. Also, if you have family members who might want to join the process that will help to lower your costs as he charges less for subsequent applicants as some documentation is redundant. I hope this helps. Feel free to ask more questions, I will try to answer them as best I can. Rick


Sadly, WebMommy may find rough road ahead.

Her grandfather was born in the US in 1898, thus her great-grandparents obviously arrived prior to that date; arrival records from that period are notoriously bad. On the other hand, naturalization was quick and easy prior to 1906 and could be handled even by a local justice of the peace. Proving that great-grandfather *did not* naturalize prior to grandfather's birth will be virtually impossible with the sole exception being if he *did* naturalize sometime after 1906 when USCIS record keeping begins.

And then, there is another small issue: if great-grandfather naturalized before 1913 (actually, some date in 1912 but I forget the exact date), then the "1912 rule" kicks in and may void grandfather's inherited citizenship anyway. So, again the ideal situation would be to find proof that great-grandfather became a naturalized US citizen sometime after 1/1/1913. That would solve both of the above problems.

Webmommy, I suggest you go to https://www.uscis.gov/genealogy and request an Index Search (click the "Order Search/Record Here" button on the left). That will be as good a place to start as any.


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## Italia-Mx (Jan 14, 2009)

You will have to acquire all the documents yourself that you will then provide to the attorney.


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

Italia-Mx said:


> You will have to acquire all the documents yourself that you will then provide to the attorney.


For extra fee, Luigi Paiano (and, I am sure, any attorney) will assist with locating and acquiring documents - especially on the Italian side.


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