# Fiancee visa under new rules rejected by UKBA Manila - timeline and help needed



## KuyaMarco (Nov 14, 2012)

Hi everybody,
here I am as well as you all.

Thanks for the help you give to everybody writing to this forum, I checked it every now and again for information too and it is very useful.

Here the timeline of my unfortunate experience with manila hub for the fiancee visa of my beloved one (when I think how bad she feels now my eyes still get wet in tears)

Date biometric taken in Manila: 14/09/2012
Date we had the email of application sent back (which means rejected): 14/11/2012

To make a long story short, I meet all requirements without even a doubt so I can't even think of what they invented to reject it (we are waiting for the paper to get back, so at least I can have a laugh).

My question is: how many appeals get turned over at the end of the day? 80%? 90%? Are those numbers anywhere? Because if a very high number of that happens it means there is a huge waste of public money right? 

That's actually what upsets me the most: it's 6 years I work in London (I am originally from Italy) and last year I paid in taxes more or less what they need as minimum gross salary to sponsor my fiancee. Never asked any benefit, never had one pence from the government back ( I have been twice to NHS doctor, that is my weight on the society in UK). But when I ask a service to allow my fiancee to live here with me and start a new family together they say they don't want her.
I am genuinely re-thinking the reasons why I am here and honestly considering relocating elsewhere if this story don't end well in a reasonable time. Well done UKBA, let's get ride of the people who pays taxes and work in name of closing down immigration! 

But despite being highly disappointed of all this story, I am going to try and fight back in any way possible. I already have a couple of MP email addresses I will write, but I would like also to write to managers of the authorities that have competence about the decision. I am thinking to write to the press too in the hope that some journalist that deserves that qualification still exists. I am not disappointed for myself only, but for everybody that are hit by this unfair, obscure and stressful procedure. It looks like it's done in purpose to transform the applicants' life in hell, so they eventually stop trying. Next step I will hire an immigration lawyer. 

Is there anyone here thinking that there must be space for a class action against this procedure? I am thinking to pay a good lawyer and sue the UKBA, do anyone have tried that already? I believe if we get together in a few people we have enough material to get some newspaper interested... 

Can someone of you send me privately or here some email address that in the past had some success? Or at least some attention?


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## mehemlynn (Nov 16, 2011)

I'm sorry you haven't received your visa. 

Before you decide what you are going to do, you really need to wait for the paperwork. They will tell you why they didn't accept the visa application (often it is because some of the paperwork isn't original or isn't for the right length of time - as to your question most appeals that are successful are because the person didn't provide the paperwork needed in the application). If your visa was refused because of missing (or not original) paperwork, that is one issue; if it is because they think you don't have a relationship that is another; if it is because you were short of the minimum salary for a month that is another again. Once you know why you were refused you can deal with your next steps. 

Don't forget that the folks from UKBA don't know you from anyone else. They are just doing their jobs and following the rules they are given. I know you are blowing off steam here, but make sure it doesn't come through as frustration that the UKBA aren't doing their job properly (most people don't like someone to tell them they don't know how to do their job, but are willing to work with people who made an honest mistake).

M


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## benthomas010 (Jun 5, 2012)

How do you know it's a rejection? I didn't think the e'mail stated successor failure? 

I agree the process is terrible, the time it takes is ludicrous especially given the cost - I would love to take an action against UKbA, however I have neither the money nor the will to risk my wife's visa. 

I doubt the media will care tbh - they love giving the impression it's easy to get in so this would go against their stance.'


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Just a thought, OP...

You mention that you are originally from Italy. Do you hold a passport from either Italy or other member country of the EU/EEA? 

If so, are you and your fiancee able to get married in the Philippines? If so you'd be able to bring her into the UK by exercising your EU Treaty Rights... easier to do than the fiance(e) visa process.


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## KuyaMarco (Nov 14, 2012)

benthomas010 said:


> How do you know it's a rejection? I didn't think the e'mail stated successor failure?
> 
> I agree the process is terrible, the time it takes is ludicrous especially given the cost - I would love to take an action against UKbA, however I have neither the money nor the will to risk my wife's visa.
> 
> I doubt the media will care tbh - they love giving the impression it's easy to get in so this would go against their stance.'


Thanks for your comment. 
I know it's a rejection because the email state "processed visa application xxxx will be endorsed to courier yyyy", if visa was successful it would say "your visa will be endorsed to xxxx".

Many times little things makes the difference!


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## KuyaMarco (Nov 14, 2012)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> Just a thought, OP...
> 
> You mention that you are originally from Italy. Do you hold a passport from either Italy or other member country of the EU/EEA?
> 
> If so, are you and your fiancee able to get married in the Philippines? If so you'd be able to bring her into the UK by exercising your easier to do than the fiance(e) visa process.


Yes, I do hold an Italian passport. That's a way I didn't consider, but how hard is it to get married in the Philippines? 
Consider I have a job, so even if I have enough money to go there every two months - I have just 20 days of holidays in a year.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

KuyaMarco said:


> Yes, I do hold an Italian passport. That's a way I didn't consider, but how hard is it to get married in the Philippines?
> Consider I have a job, so even if I have enough money to go there every two months - I have just 20 days of holidays in a year.


You could have just got married, and your wife could have applied for EEA family permit with a minimum of fuss, and joined you in UK as your family member. 
In the past, applying for a fiancé(e) visa followed by FLR meant you could achieve settlement in 2 years instead of 5 for those under EU rules, and for this reason some long-term (minimum 5 Years) resident EEA citizens brought their spouse or partner via UK immigration rules. But since the change in rules making it 5 years to attain settlement, there is no real advantage in going through UK law and people just apply under EU rules to bring non-EEA family members.


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## KuyaMarco (Nov 14, 2012)

mehemlynn said:


> I'm sorry you haven't received your visa.
> 
> Before you decide what you are going to do, you really need to wait for the paperwork. They will tell you why they didn't accept the visa application (often it is because some of the paperwork isn't original or isn't for the right length of time - as to your question most appeals that are successful are because the person didn't provide the paperwork needed in the application). If your visa was refused because of missing (or not original) paperwork, that is one issue; if it is because they think you don't have a relationship that is another; if it is because you were short of the minimum salary for a month that is another again. Once you know why you were refused you can deal with your next steps.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply.

Unfortunately I see it from a different point of view and think that the folks at UKBA are wasting the taxpayer money. Which is evident if you see the facts, reading this forum and looking at the reality out there. (I am not talking about the low-level people obviously, which I know they follow orders and do all the manual job- god knows how miserable their work days have to be)
I believe this is a system where people in the right places is making money behind the scene somehow, while the overall accountancy is just a waste of resources in order to obtain just a big mess. It is so bad that I can hardly believe it was made in a good spirit. It was made by somebody with the IQ of a chimp or either by somebody which just wanted to make it hard, painful, not deterministic and flexible (so they can use different measures, of course)
I come from Italy, I know all the tricks. I thought this place was better, but I am realizing year after year that you are becoming like Italy and Italy is becoming like North-Africa....

My poor dad always told me "Clear rules for a long lasting partnership!". 

Anyway the point is not the UKBA not doing their job, but the UKBA at all!! That is a useless office that shouldn't even exist!!! And visas must be processed by the Foreign Office, not by the Home Office if they want to really have an understanding of WHO is asking the visa!!! 

There must be a list of DOCUMENTS that will GRANT a visa, without decisions to make. The only process must be checking the documents, NOT MAKING DECISIONS. And so people would know what is needed, not like now that it seems like the black market of informations about what to include..... this is a joke, not a serious system.


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## KuyaMarco (Nov 14, 2012)

Joppa said:


> You could have just got married, and your wife could have applied for EEA family permit with a minimum of fuss, and joined you in UK as your family member.
> In the past, applying for a fiancé(e) visa followed by FLR meant you could achieve settlement in 2 years instead of 5 for those under EU rules, and for this reason some long-term (minimum 5 Years) resident EEA citizens brought their spouse or partner via UK immigration rules. But since the change in rules making it 5 years to attain settlement, there is no real advantage in going through UK law and people just apply under EU rules to bring non-EEA family members.


Very interesting. And despite that they had the face to reject it....

Anyone knows how long I have to stay in the Philippines to get married?

Can I do that if this whole charade is gonna take too long, or am I doomed to move to Singapore to live the next 10 years?


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## Kuya (Mar 28, 2012)

KuyaMarco said:


> Very interesting. And despite that they had the face to reject it....
> 
> Anyone knows how long I have to stay in the Philippines to get married?
> 
> Can I do that if this whole charade is gonna take too long, or am I doomed to move to Singapore to live the next 10 years?


I got married in the Philippines, though I did stay there for 59 days. That said, I know people who got married within 3 weeks. If you choose to marry in the Philippines, you need to:

1] Obtain Certificate of No Impediment (CNI) here in the UK. You need to give your local registrar 3 weeks notice before they issue this. It remains valid for 3 months so don't get it too early!

2] At least 2 weeks before you fly to Manila, book an appointment with the British Embassy. Then exchange CNI for local CNI (called a CENOMAR or Certificate of No Marriage) at the embassy in Manila. Your fiancée needs to be with you at the embassy and show her CNI as well.

3] Go to the local town or city hall where you intend to marry. Then apply for a marriage licence which takes (I think) 21 days. During this 21 days you may need to attend local counselling sessions or whatever local custom there is (I had to plant trees). Then get married on the day or after your licence is issued.

The bad news is that it takes 3 months before you get your marriage certificate, but the good news is that the EEA permit currently sits at 15 days processing time from date of application.


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## KuyaMarco (Nov 14, 2012)

Kuya said:


> I got married in the Philippines, though I did stay there for 59 days. That said, I know people who got married within 3 weeks. If you choose to marry in the Philippines, you need to:
> 
> 1] Obtain Certificate of No Impediment (CNI) here in the UK. You need to give your local registrar 3 weeks notice before they issue this. It remains valid for 3 months so don't get it too early!
> 
> ...


Thank you for your replay Kuya!
In effect I realized now why I didn't follow that path.... I need time to spend there! Which unfortunately I don't have since I have a job... 
I wish I could ask 2 months off for the sake of that... 
Is it there a sort of Las Vegas place in asia where we can do the same in less time?
No matter the price, just pay show the documents and get it done? 
And is my current application interfering in any way with something like that? 
I mean, are they forced to give us visa if we get married anywhere under EEU laws or do they have still a way to stop it?
I just feel discriminated and I honestly think they are just trying to reject the most they can, as easy as that....


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## chad1017 (Nov 22, 2011)

How long are u both in a relationship?

How many times or how often u met your fiancee face to face? 

When did the relationship started and where did u first met her? 

Did u submitted supporting letters to both sides of her and ur family/close friends stating that they recognize the relationship? (Atleast 2 each side)

Pictures (like giving sweet kisses to each other or shots not just seating next to her like friends if u know what i mean bcos that is the strongest pic to submit in my opinion), or like together with her family?

If u are apart from her, how much communication evidences did you submitted?

I applied for a fiancee visa last april 16, 2012when my partner's last trip in the philippines and he arrived april 15th. We are both gays and my visa was granted on may 25, 2012. We have been in a long distance relationship since 2009 and hes living in the usa all his life but a brit citizen too and we first met the following year and been together for a month. He then went back again the following year and stayed a month again and back again on before xmas for 3 weeks. Then this year was his last trip and since april til now wer nver been apart already. 
There might be a reason why they turned down ur application, if they granted us "same sex" relationship, what more to a heterosexual relationship? We did hire a solicitor and she is good and upfront to us and wants everything complete and a strong application case. Dont lose hope, keep on trying make a new application and make sure ALL is complete and sufficient and follow there rules. Im sure like mine it will went smooth and unexpected. Actuallu i was surprised and my time frame before is after te olympics since it was too busy back then. Have faith mate. Gudluck and cheers!


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## KuyaMarco (Nov 14, 2012)

chad1017 said:


> How long are u both in a relationship?
> 
> How many times or how often u met your fiancee face to face?
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply. 
I have been in the Philippines to meet her the first time in October 2011, then we met again on November 2011 when I went to see her family the first time. Then we met december/january 2012 when we went together to Palawan. Again we met in March and we went to see her relatives in Vigan City. Last time we met in June this year, just when she was studying for her IELTS. Then we applied for visa in september, including like 50 pictures of us together (many with me and her mum and the family) and all our cebu pacific tickets with our names together. We included the receipts of Western Union of the pocket money I send her to help and of the big amounts that we needed to pay the fees of all the procedure.
We are in touch all the time using smart phone app Whatsapp (highly recommended to everybody that needs a lot of international sms): we are in touch at every hour of the day and night. She knows when I wake up and when I go to sleep, as I know about her. 
I don't know how many pages of yahoo messenger logs we sent down, probably more then how they wanted to read. No we didn't have a letter of consensus from my side, but I honestly think if that is the base of refusal it's pretty weak right?
Now I am really considering to move to Singapore and the CEO of my company might write a support letter in my appeal stating how a big problem that would be for them. Do you think that might help?


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## benthomas010 (Jun 5, 2012)

Did u include the proof of accommodation stuff? 
A letter from yourself? 
A letter from herself? 

All that kind of guff?


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## KuyaMarco (Nov 14, 2012)

benthomas010 said:


> Did u include the proof of accommodation stuff?
> A letter from yourself?
> A letter from herself?
> 
> All that kind of guff?


I sent down even the original tenancy agreement with her name on it, since I had to renew the contract in july and the house manager agreed to put her name in it. Of course my council tax bill with 20% discount for single occupancy (1 bedroom flat with garden, absolutely fine for two people)

My letter was obviously very long and detailed, explaining really well everything I am explaining here. No letter from her.

I booked the notice of marriage in my council as well (included the confirmation email from the council with all the details) which I already had to reschedule once cause of the long waiting. (Here again waste of time and booking slots for the Council, but who cares right?)

I honestly don't know what they can invent for their reasons. I really hope it's a failure of the system that send emails, cause I am beginning to think the problem are not the documents or the evidence, but the origin of my passport.


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## benthomas010 (Jun 5, 2012)

Good Morning...

Did you receive the letter yet detailing the actual reasons for refusal?


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Just had a thought in regards to how to get around the marriage delay... go to USA and get married by Elvis in Las Vegas!

I am completely serious here... it is easy to get a marriage license in Las Vegas (takes 1 day to get license) and the UK government _will_ recognise marriages in Las Vegas as it is a _legal_ marriage in the state of Nevada and the UK government recognises _legal_ weddings that have taken place in the USA.

Is your fiancee able to apply for a B-2 Visitor's Visa to the USA? It costs USD 160$ and she will need to appear at the US Embassy in Manilla.

If she is able to get a visa and you apply for a US Entry Visa under the ESTA Visa Waiver Program (Italian citizens are eligible and the visa is good for multiple trips to the USA for 2 years), you then just need to book a trip to Las Vegas. 

Your fiancee *should not* tell the US Embassy that she intends to get married in the USA or else they may refuse her visitor's visa. She need only say that she is going to Las Vegas for pleasure and will be touring around, with perhaps a visit to the Grand Canyon. This is the truth, as she will be going to Las Vegas for a short vacation (my Filipino friends <3 to go to the casino and they also like to go to Las Vegas).

Once you are there, you just need to go and get a license to get married and find a place to perform the marriage ceremony... the "Elvis" link I provided earlier has details on what you have to do to get a license. No special visa is needed for non-USA citizens to marry... I know people who have gone to Las Vegas for a mini-vacation and decided to get married while they were down there.

After your wedding, leave the USA before her visa expires and proceed with your plans to bring your wife to the UK.

Good luck to you both, have fun in Las Vegas and CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR WEDDING!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Before doing what WCCG suggests, check with the Philippino authorities that 'Elvis' marriage or other 'quickie' Las Vegas-style marriage will be recognised as valid in the country. One of the conditions of applying for a spouse visa for UK is that marriage is recognised as valid in the country of application. 
I have just googled, and yes, Philippino citizens who marry abroad must register their marriage in the Philippines through embassy/consulate:
Embassy of the Philippines - Consular & Other Services
Also, under the circumstances, UKBA may demand a Philippino marriage certificate (following registration) instead of Nevada State one. This may take time.

In any case, proceed very carefully with regard to official things like marriage and registration, as there are often pitfalls for the unwary.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Before doing what WCCG suggests, check with the Philippino authorities that 'Elvis' marriage or other 'quickie' Las Vegas-style marriage will be recognised as valid in the country. One of the conditions of applying for a spouse visa for UK is that marriage is recognised as valid in the country of application.
> I have just googled, and yes, Philippino citizens who marry abroad must register their marriage in the Philippines through embassy/consulate:
> Embassy of the Philippines - Consular & Other Services
> Also, under the circumstances, UKBA may demand a Philippino marriage certificate (following registration) instead of Nevada State one.
> ...


As an EEA citizen bringing his family member (wife) into the UK, wouldn't OP be exempt from the need to have a spousal visa?

All he's looking for is a way to get her into the UK with the least amount of resistance. 

Once she's in the UK, they could theoretically have a registry wedding to satisfy the Philippine government's regulations. I know that he would likely have to do this second "wedding" if he wanted to get his wife an Italian passport... my brother and his Italian wife were married in a civil ceremony the Cayman Islands, yet the Italian government doesn't recognise the marriage, so she'd have to wade through a ton of red tape to get it recognised... have suggested to her that perhaps going to (Toronto) city hall to get married again might be the easiest and least expensive way to get my brother a passport.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I haven't read through previous posts to update myself on OP's situation.
In any case, even under the EU rule, marriage must be regarded as valid in the country where a person is citizen of.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Joppa said:


> I haven't read through previous posts to update myself on OP's situation.
> In any case, even under the EU rule, marriage must be regarded as valid in the country where a person is citizen of.


Ah. I see... from what I've seen on the internet, I would imagine that OP's fiancee would have to get the Nevada marriage filed in the Philippines once she returned home after her trip so that the government has record of the marriage ... this seems like an easier thing to do than for them to try to get married in the Philippines within the duration of his annual leave.

I'm sure that his fiancee could investigate this avenue while they're considering their next course of action.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I think she has to file her marriage details while still in the US, through their embassy or consulate.


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## KuyaMarco (Nov 14, 2012)

benthomas010 said:


> Good Morning...
> 
> Did you receive the letter yet detailing the actual reasons for refusal?


No, haven't yet received the letter. Tomorrow is going to be the 4th working day after the email notification and I begin to be quite scared. If it has been lost it would be a tragedy.... I put so many original documents that having the identity stolen will be almost sure. (6 months bank statements, 6 months original payslips, original council tax, original tenancy agreement... only thinking about that gives me the creeps... it will be worse then the rejection... and I will sue them for sure in that case)


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## benthomas010 (Jun 5, 2012)

What's so difficult to get married in Philippines - it's worth looking into, I got married in Indonesia and the law there is you must file intent to marry 10'days prior to the wedding. 

I don't believe anyone has given a timeline, one person was there for 59 days - but not because he had to be. Just because he happened to be.


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## KuyaMarco (Nov 14, 2012)

Thanks for everybody's suggestions and interest about my case.
I like the idea about Vegas and my question is if they are gonna give her visa in USA? They already denied us a visitor visa in UK with the excuse they didn't trust she would go back in march last year. (Consider she comes from a very small village in Leyte island, so despite she helps in her sari sari shop and those kind of things, she is legally unemployed in the Philippines.)

And, since now I already have this application done, I think that appealing is the most intelligent thing to do. (How can I do anything else after I already paid all that money to get it rejected???) 
There is no doubt I have all the requirements I need to get this visa. They are just playing "hard to get" cause I am italian or for some reason independent from my papers. So what I will do now is having a consultancy with an immigration lawyer after I see the motivation, add some documents in case and file my appeal together with writing a few letters full of drama and tears in order to move a Member of Parliament or somebody like that to have some pity, pick up the phone and end this nightmare.

Unless anyone think I shouldn't try that?


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## benthomas010 (Jun 5, 2012)

I agree you definitely SHOULD appeal. Not sure about the MP bit - will hold little ground unless they personally know you. If u have everything in order then there's no reason why an appeal shouldn't be successful. Once you get your reasoning letter - maybe explain on here and someone can offer further advice - until then It's difficult for even the experts to offer any suggestions. 

Good luck. Best of luck. Hope it's sorted soon for you.


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## KuyaMarco (Nov 14, 2012)

*Unbelievable - visa arrived!!!!*

Hi everybody,

just letting you know about the end of this nightmare!!!!


Today, 4 days after receiving the email that is sent for rejected applications my fiance received the package from UKBA.
She was expecting to find the motivation letter, but there was none.

She open her passport and she couldn't believe to her eyes: VISA WAS THERE!!!

It is valid from november 13th, so it was ready from well more then 7 days.... God knows what happened there, but we are too overwhelmed of joy for caring anymore. We just thanks God that we don't have to deal with them again for a while!!!

And thanks to everybody of you here as well!

Goodluck to everyone, you definitely need it!!!


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## benthomas010 (Jun 5, 2012)

Brillaint news mate, brilliant news. Happy for you - and a lesson to all others. Dont make assumptions based on vague wording of an e-mail. 

How long until you are re-united in the uk then?


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## cc9 (Oct 29, 2012)

Aaaah it's so nice to hear good news, gives everyone who has still to submit their application hope   congratulations


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## KuyaMarco (Nov 14, 2012)

benthomas010 said:


> Brillaint news mate, brilliant news. Happy for you - and a lesson to all others. Dont make assumptions based on vague wording of an e-mail.
> 
> How long until you are re-united in the uk then?


This week she goes to CFO for her sticker and I have just booked her flight on sunday..... of course monday I will be off work!!!! lane: hehehehe :eyebrows:


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU BOTH!!!

Am so very pleased to hear of this POSITIVE outcome!


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

KuyaMarco said:


> Thanks for your comment.
> I know it's a rejection because the email state "processed visa application xxxx will be endorsed to courier yyyy", if visa was successful it would say "your visa will be endorsed to xxxx".
> 
> Many times little things makes the difference!


Now that I re-read this thread, it is true that many times little things DO really make the difference... I see that NONE of us clued into the wording of the email that your fiancee received.

If the application had been refused, the email would clearly have stated REFUSED... there was a poster here earlier this year who applied for herself and her daughter to come to the UK. She was approved for her visa and received a "your visa is APPROVED" letter then the next day she received a letter saying "your visa is REFUSED." She was confused by this and didn't understand if she really was approved or not. When her and her daughter's passports came back, her passport had a visa while her daughter's did not.

Anyway, I'll bet that you won't be sleeping much between now and next Monday!

Congratulations again, and happy wedding planning!


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## KuyaMarco (Nov 14, 2012)

hahahaha, thanks.
Sorry to disappoint you, but I am going to sleep well now instead.... I have already lost enough sleep in the last two months!!!! 
[But the house needs a huge cleaning session!!!]

Yes that post gave me a little glimpse of hope, but really I think they got the message wrong. I believe that every hub has his own message system and Manila's seems to send an email with "your visa is dispatched" in positive case, which we have not had. Nothing in our message mentioned the word "visa", but only "visa application" which is not the same thing (at least from what I see on the forums online, here and there). 

The lesson to learn here is that the process is too much flaky, obscure and uncertain to ever trust any information. The only thing you can trust is when you actually see your documents with your eyes!!!

Thanks again to everyone, good luck to everybody still processing and remember that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger!!!


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## Kuya (Mar 28, 2012)

Congrats!! You applied a month before my wife and I, and like you I'm losing sleep and the flat is a bit of a mess  Manila seems to be averaging at 2 months for applications so I guess I have another few weeks or so to go..


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## charles913 (Jul 12, 2013)

What type of IELTS module did she took? What was the target score?



KuyaMarco said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> I have been in the Philippines to meet her the first time in October 2011, then we met again on November 2011 when I went to see her family the first time. Then we met december/january 2012 when we went together to Palawan. Again we met in March and we went to see her relatives in Vigan City. Last time we met in June this year, just when she was studying for her IELTS. Then we applied for visa in september, including like 50 pictures of us together (many with me and her mum and the family) and all our cebu pacific tickets with our names together. We included the receipts of Western Union of the pocket money I send her to help and of the big amounts that we needed to pay the fees of all the procedure.
> We are in touch all the time using smart phone app Whatsapp (highly recommended to everybody that needs a lot of international sms): we are in touch at every hour of the day and night. She knows when I wake up and when I go to sleep, as I know about her.
> I don't know how many pages of yahoo messenger logs we sent down, probably more then how they wanted to read. No we didn't have a letter of consensus from my side, but I honestly think if that is the base of refusal it's pretty weak right?
> Now I am really considering to move to Singapore and the CEO of my company might write a support letter in my appeal stating how a big problem that would be for them. Do you think that might help?


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