# How to be distinctive and the wrong approach



## mardini

I have to make 4 posts before I can reply to any post, otherwise I would have replied to some posts on this forum rather than starting a new thread, in which I would argue the negative attitude towards any country by its own citizens.

This post is not intended to be offensive in any way, and if some one believed he/she was spoken to in this thread and then felt offended, please reply with your concerns.

I have read few posts written by western expats in Egypt sharing their experiences when interacting with the locals, or sharing situations they were in where things didn't go according to what seems to be common sense elsewhere in the world. Then I continued to read replies to these posts and always noticed local/citizen participants attribute the negativeness to a nation-wide degrading morals, sometimes they would make arguments that the nation in its entire is no more than what you experienced, and continue to curse the fact they were citizens of this country in a implicit fashion.

I can understand when foreigners share experiences and feelings where some of them seem negative because they come from societies who live by different sets of rules, in these societies the social and public behavior is not apart from the law practiced within their society, things there make sense because the public behavior is in harmony with the laws established and practiced not as an option but as a way of life. I understand their approach because when they arrive into Egypt they experience a different social behavior that might lure us to believe that the only rule in practice is the absence of rules.

Therefore, when foreigners share their experiences it can be understood that when a certain practice should have been different because it would have been more logical, I take it that may be there is something I should learn from this: Either something actually was done wrong based on the experience I read; or I argue that it was done perfectly right because there are established social practices that allow for this experience to happen the way it did or may be the law allow for it. If the first then I would abide by what makes sense and entertain the common sense practice among those I interact with on daily basis, if the latter then I would reply with my understanding of the social behavior or the law and clarify the experience. In both cases, I would have shown positive attitude.

Now, I know negative practices exist everywhere on earth, that's why we have laws. I lived in the U.S., in France, and been to many Arab states, I can comfortably say that wrong-doing existed in the places I've been to. Of course the extent and severity of wrong-doing varied, and the scale of how massive or narrow it was always had to do with how abiding the society was with the established laws. How is all this related to what I want to deliver in this post?

Simply put, societies are made of individuals who shape its behavior, and therefore if the Egyptian society is at large - as entertained by locals/citizens contributing to this forum - messed up and seems unrepairable, then the question would be, how much are you or have you - locals/citizens contributing to this forum - contributing or contributed to this unacceptable behavior? Or is your criticism and frustration due to the fact that you are so different from the society in which you live.

Admit it or don't; you are part of this society and are contributing to the continuous wrong-doing either by personally being part of the wrong-doing or by not taking action to correct the wrong-doing when possible, and if you have had successful stories where you were able to correct things, then please share with the rest so we can give you credit and neutrally evaluate your contributions to this forum about "your" country and society.

It is easier to not do anything than to take action, but then this what differentiate good people from just people.

When I read the posts I referred to earlier, I noticed that the wrong-doing is attributed to people not abiding by the law. My personal experiences in Cairo also strengthen this conclusion.

Egyptians might argue that everyone else is not abiding by the law and the whole thing is just a mess, but... two wrong things don't make one right. Here is a hint: why don't you start by respecting the established laws, lets say start by adhering to the established traffic laws, I know they exist because I read them, then may be the next step would be to refrain from throwing left-overs on the street, and use the trash cans, if they don't exist where you live or walk or drive then keep it with you till you find one. Then ultimately move on to the peak of it; show courtesy to your fellow citizens, allow them to cross roads safely for example, as it doesn't mean you were cheated when pausing for few seconds to allow an old lady, an old man, a child, or an animal to cross the road safely. Don't push people around as you walk, and if you accidentally did, then apologize, it is so polite to do so. Don't honk your horn in the same instance the green light flashes, allow for few seconds for the traffic to move as the 100 cars ahead of you takes a few while to move, given of course that you actually stopped for the red light, oh and by the way, stop for the red light, it will save your life, or mine.
Wear the safety belt and enforce it on people who ride with you, and if your car generates lots of led-smoke don't drive it, fix it first, and if you don't have the resources to fix it, then park it and use an alternative mean of transportation until you have raised enough to fix it, you definitely will save my and other people's lives. If you are driving a car, stay on your lane, don't drive on the white lines as this misleads other drivers, keep at least one car distance between you and the car ahead of you, it is safer, remember if you can't see the rear tires of the car ahead of you, then you are dangerously too close. It is not too crowded out there, just too disorganized. Use the signal lights when shifting lanes, speak to me, your flash light is your language when you and I are driving, and use your rear mirror and side mirrors, don't keep them bent-in when you ride in your car and move. If the street is divided to 3 lanes only don't form a 7th lane, better late than dead, don't overtake my right at the U turn, don't come from the far right and stop your car in front of me, you blind my view and it is rude. If I am talking to the help desk anywhere after I have waited in line, don't jump in front of me and talk to the front desk the same time I am talking, take time; stand in the line and be polite, your time is not more precious than mine. Of course this is not everything but the things I could think of momentarily.

My friend; of course I am not saying that you are doing all or any of that, not at all, but I encourage you to entertain the positive attitude culture among others who are not.

To sum up: Don't criticize what you are part of, for if it is still in practice then you haven't done enough to stop it by the time you criticized it. To rephrase: if you are criticizing then you are not helping. 

Hope you are having a similar wonderful morning, TGIF.

Cheers...

Ibrahim


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## MaidenScotland

Hi and Welcome to the forum

You can reply to any post ... you cannot send a private message until you have posted 5 times.


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## mardini

MaidenScotland said:


> Hi and Welcome to the forum
> 
> You can reply to any post ... you cannot send a private message until you have posted 5 times.


Thank you MaidenSchotland, I thought I tried to post a reply to few posts but always received a message that I needed to make 4 posts, but then again, I could have done something wrong...

I tried to reply to your post about the "clock-change" in Cairo, since I heard it on the news last night, glad you got the answer.

Hope this day brings lots of smiles for you..

Ibrahim


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## DeadGuy

ialhabbal said:


> ......................................
> 
> Then I continued to read replies to these posts and always noticed local/citizen participants attribute the negativeness to a nation-wide degrading morals, sometimes they would make arguments that the nation in its entire is no more than what you experienced, and continue to curse the fact they were citizens of this country in a implicit fashion.
> 
> ......................................
> 
> My friend; of course I am not saying that you are doing all or any of that, not at all, but I encourage you to entertain the positive attitude culture among others who are not.
> 
> ......................................
> 
> 
> Cheers...
> 
> Ibrahim


Hi there,

First of all sorry for editing your original post, but it was a bit long to be fully quoted.

But correct me if I'm wrong, but this "local/citizen participants ....................." is meant to be myself? lol

Sorry if I was wrong, but just lemme know if it was me.

Have a nice time man


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## mardini

DeadGuy said:


> Hi there,
> 
> correct me if I'm wrong, but this "local/citizen participants ....................." is meant to be myself?
> 
> Have a nice time man



Hello my forum friend and hopefully soon a real-life friend,

My response would be in the following fashion:

What does my post make you want/hope to do? If it was:

1- Meant for someone else other than you.
2- Meant for you.

I look forward to knowing what you think..

Cheers,

Ibrahim


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## DeadGuy

ialhabbal said:


> Hello my forum friend and hopefully soon a real-life friend,
> 
> My response would be in the following fashion:
> 
> What does my post make you want/hope to do? If it was:
> 
> 1- Meant for someone else other than you.
> 2- Meant for you.
> 
> I look forward to knowing what you think..
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ibrahim


Jeeeez! It was just a question, but answered by a another question lol

Nothing "makes" me want/hope to do anything by the way, I just try to do the right thing whatever the reasons are!

If you don't wanna answer my question if it was me then it's up to you, but the questions answering questions thing..........not my way to have a conversation, sorry, nothing personal!

Good luck dude, enjoy it in Egypt, if you can anyway


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## mardini

DeadGuy said:


> Good luck ****, enjoy it in Egypt, ** *** *** ******



Thanks, I will continue to enjoy it...

Cheers,

Ibrahim


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## DeadGuy

ialhabbal said:


> Thanks, I will continue to enjoy it...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ibrahim


Thought asterisks are mainly used to replace the rude words :confused2: "Dude" is a Rude one now? :confused2:

Hope you do enjoy it, good luck


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## Sam

Hello Ibrahim,

Welcome to the forum.

As a "citizen" in Egypt, but that I mean I live here and am not on this forum dreaming to live here, then I would like to respond.

I abide by all the laws of Egypt, and encourage my daughter to do the same. I throw my rubbish in bins, or take it home when there are no bins. When my daughter throws rubbish on the floor I make her pick it up and do the same (even when she throws it into a pile of rubbish and at two-years old can't understand why that is wrong).

I drive wearing my seat-belt, with my lights on at night, overtake on the left side (where possible), drive within the lines (where possible) and sometimes drive within the speed limit . I hold a valid visa, a valid driving license and pay dues (including buying Masry El Youm from the guy selling in the street even though I don't read it, I like it that they try hard and work rather that beg in the street).

So... when I have been defrauded and robbed, and the man in question is doing things totally illegally but is "protected" by "connections" and the policeman's exact words to me were "the police don't help the foolish" then I think I can safely say I have done my part to improve society to no avail.

Welcome to Egypt


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## DeadGuy

Sam said:


> Hello Ibrahim,
> 
> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> As a "citizen" in Egypt, but that I mean I live here and am not on this forum dreaming to live here, then I would like to respond.
> 
> I abide by all the laws of Egypt, and encourage my daughter to do the same. I throw my rubbish in bins, or take it home when there are no bins. When my daughter throws rubbish on the floor I make her pick it up and do the same (even when she throws it into a pile of rubbish and at two-years old can't understand why that is wrong).
> 
> I drive wearing my seat-belt, with my lights on at night, overtake on the left side (where possible), drive within the lines (where possible) and sometimes drive within the speed limit . I hold a valid visa, a valid driving license and pay dues (including buying Masry El Youm from the guy selling in the street even though I don't read it, I like it that they try hard and work rather that beg in the street).
> 
> So... when I have been defrauded and robbed, and the man in question is doing things totally illegally but is "protected" by "connections" and the policeman's exact words to me were "the police don't help the foolish" then I think I can safely say I have done my part to improve society to no avail.
> 
> Welcome to Egypt


Hi there Sam,

"Al kanoon la yahmy al moghaffaleen" = "Law does not protect idiots" => How things go in here, that's the easiest way out for any officer or any person in charge in here, specially when a person who is NOT an idiot claims for something (Usually claiming for their own rights that they're entitled to have!).

EVERYONE buckles up now in Egypt, not cause they're worried about their own safety, but cause they're worried about the 50 EGP fine in the newly applied law (Applied since August 2008 if I can remember correctly), speed limit isn't a big issue in this law as long as you didn't get caught by one of the radars, those radars are usually as old as my dead grandpa, adding an extra 10 km/h to your actual speed, and I mean it, cause they need the money (1200 EGP for over speeding) How ever this law does not punish idiots using the right lane for taking over (Taking UK as an ideal example may be?? :lol.

The piles of trash in the streets, I've seen people who were fighting others who throw their rubbish bags in front of their houses, in the mean while, those same people take their own rubbish bags and throw it in the middle of the street but in another area, not in front of their homes! May be they think it's "ok" as long as it's not near them??!

If you get defrauded in here all you can do is to learn from it and warn others from dealing with the con who robbed you, there are other things to be done, but don't think it's an option since you're not an Egyptian, not to mention that you are a lady :lol:

Enjoy it in here 

How's your unfortunate situation going by the way?? Been like 4 weeks so far I think, hope it's all ended now and went well??


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## Sam

DeadGuy said:


> Hi there Sam,
> 
> "Al kanoon la yahmy al moghaffaleen" = "Law does not protect idiots" => How things go in here, that's the easiest way out for any officer or any person in charge in here, specially when a person who is NOT an idiot claims for something (Usually claiming for their own rights that they're entitled to have!).
> 
> EVERYONE buckles up now in Egypt, not cause they're worried about their own safety, but cause they're worried about the 50 EGP fine in the newly applied law (Applied since August 2008 if I can remember correctly), speed limit isn't a big issue in this law as long as you didn't get caught by one of the radars, those radars are usually as old as my dead grandpa, adding an extra 10 km/h to your actual speed, and I mean it, cause they need the money (1200 EGP for over speeding) How ever this law does not punish idiots using the right lane for taking over (Taking UK as an ideal example may be?? :lol.
> 
> The piles of trash in the streets, I've seen people who were fighting others who throw their rubbish bags in front of their houses, in the mean while, those same people take their own rubbish bags and throw it in the middle of the street but in another area, not in front of their homes! May be they think it's "ok" as long as it's not near them??!
> 
> If you get defrauded in here all you can do is to learn from it and warn others from dealing with the con who robbed you, there are other things to be done, but don't think it's an option since you're not an Egyptian, not to mention that you are a lady :lol:
> 
> Enjoy it in here
> 
> How's your unfortunate situation going by the way?? Been like 4 weeks so far I think, hope it's all ended now and went well??



Hi Deadguy,

Yep, been over a month now. Situation still not ended and I don't see it anytime soon. As you have said, all I can do is warn others not to deal with the con that defrauded me. And I am not the first he owes money to, and I've not been the last. Some much more than he owes me even, but anyway, there is a certain someone now that is owed money and standing in a VERY good position to do something about it, and he's promised if it's not paid very shortly then something will be hitting the fan very soon, if you know what I mean.

In the mean time, whilst I thank you for your very polite comment of me being a "lady" and I may not be Egyptian, but I still have some ideas in my head. 

Anyway, hope things are going okay with you


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## DeadGuy

Sam said:


> Hi Deadguy,
> 
> Yep, been over a month now. Situation still not ended and I don't see it anytime soon. As you have said, all I can do is warn others not to deal with the con that defrauded me. And I am not the first he owes money to, and I've not been the last. Some much more than he owes me even, but anyway, there is a certain someone now that is owed money and standing in a VERY good position to do something about it, and he's promised if it's not paid very shortly then something will be hitting the fan very soon, if you know what I mean.
> 
> In the mean time, whilst I thank you for your very polite comment of me being a "lady" and I may not be Egyptian, but I still have some ideas in my head.
> 
> Anyway, hope things are going okay with you


Sorry to hear that, I thought it'd be fixed by now to be honest :s

Don't mean to be pessimistic, but if that "someone" who promised to help is an Egyptian then don't expect much, people in here are mostly selfish to a certain point.

Got many ideas that I think could be helpful, but dunno about the moral side though, but I'd go for them if it was me, the whole situation is crappy, so if they get low I will get low as well, not something to be proud of, but that's how things go in here 

I'm doing ok so far, not bad enough, still "alive" :lol:

Lemme know if you wanna know any of the low ideas I got lol

Take care


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## mardini

Sam said:


> Hello Ibrahim,
> 
> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> As a "citizen" in Egypt, but that I mean I live here and am not on this forum dreaming to live here, then I would like to respond.
> 
> I abide by all the laws of Egypt, and encourage my daughter to do the same. I throw my rubbish in bins, or take it home when there are no bins. When my daughter throws rubbish on the floor I make her pick it up and do the same (even when she throws it into a pile of rubbish and at two-years old can't understand why that is wrong).
> 
> I drive wearing my seat-belt, with my lights on at night, overtake on the left side (where possible), drive within the lines (where possible) and sometimes drive within the speed limit . I hold a valid visa, a valid driving license and pay dues (including buying Masry El Youm from the guy selling in the street even though I don't read it, I like it that they try hard and work rather that beg in the street).
> 
> So... when I have been defrauded and robbed, and the man in question is doing things totally illegally but is "protected" by "connections" and the policeman's exact words to me were "the police don't help the foolish" then I think I can safely say I have done my part to improve society to no avail.
> 
> Welcome to Egypt



Hello Sam,

Thank you for your nice words, I liked it when you said you consider yourself to be a citizen of Egypt, I think I will do the same.


I feel for you about the situation you've been through with this person and it upsets me, I remember I was told the same exact thing that you were told by the Egyptian policeman, only I was told that by a French policeman for a situation involving another man and had I known the process then like my opponent did, I would have saved my pocket 500 euros.


Oh well, what can I say, I can't hold a grudge against France, but I still don't like that man and won't rent from him again or recommend him to people I know.


On the happy side though, I can also tell you a story or two where I corrected situations that were wrong in Egypt with the Electricity company and the phone company, when I approached them with the right paperwork, they were cooperative and helped me. I know you have many successful stories too.


All the right things you do and partly mentioned above are part of who you are. But let me tell you; I know if I was to throw something on the street and saw your young daughter not doing that, I will definitely not do that. May be someone else or more than one have learned a good thing by noticing your child, who knows?


By the way; next time I see a car flashing signals as it shifts lanes, I'll remember you 


I wish you a good night...


Top of the Day...


Ibrahim


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## GM1

DeadGuy said:


> speed limit isn't a big issue in this law as long as you didn't get caught by one of the radars, those radars are usually as old as my dead grandpa, adding an extra 10 km/h to your actual speed, and I mean it, cause they need the money (1200 EGP for over speeding)


I drive regularly between Cairo and Hurghada and for a long stretch the speed limit is 110km/h. On this stretch I always drive 109 km/h (new car, cruise control and digital display). I have been stopped at radar controls but never received a fine (when I drove the correct speed). The police around Ras Ghareb is quite active, also in the night, sometimes 2 radar controls on the same stretch!
Also if you are speeding the fine is LE150 to be paid directly or they take the license of the car. It doesn't matter how fast you are speeding, the fine is the same for speeding just 5km over the limit or 50km over the limit! Egyptian logic 

You can get a high fine (LE1500 and a month jail) if you are caught driving a street the wrong way! Again Egyptian logic, much more dangerous  ! Although I find this behaviour quite annoying! 
Sometimes you only will know you have received the fine by renewing your car license!


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## mardini

GM1 said:


> I drive regularly between Cairo and Hurghada and for a long stretch the speed limit is 110km/h. On this stretch I always drive 109 km/h (new car, cruise control and digital display). I have been stopped at radar controls but never received a fine (when I drove the correct speed). The police around Ras Ghareb is quite active, also in the night, sometimes 2 radar controls on the same stretch!
> Also if you are speeding the fine is LE150 to be paid directly or they take the license of the car. It doesn't matter how fast you are speeding, the fine is the same for speeding just 5km over the limit or 50km over the limit! Egyptian logic
> 
> You can get a high fine (LE1500 and a month jail) if you are caught driving a street the wrong way! Again Egyptian logic, much more dangerous  ! Although I find this behaviour quite annoying!
> Sometimes you only will know you have received the fine by renewing your car license!



Usually, speed control radars are programmed to allow for a percentage of over speeding, they flash when a vehicle speed exceeds this percentage, I noticed that also elsewhere. However, speed control police check points do not allow for that. What is different here is that as you said the fine is the same regardless of the over speeding, elsewhere the fine increases as the over speeding increases, since the level of threat increases.


I agree with you, wrong-way driving is very annoying and extremely dangerous.

Also, sometimes it does help to personally discuss the matter with the officer rather than the policeman. I did that once and the officer agreed with my point of view over the policeman's.


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## DeadGuy

GM1 said:


> I drive regularly between Cairo and Hurghada and for a long stretch the speed limit is 110km/h. On this stretch I always drive 109 km/h (new car, cruise control and digital display). I have been stopped at radar controls but never received a fine (when I drove the correct speed). The police around Ras Ghareb is quite active, also in the night, sometimes 2 radar controls on the same stretch!
> Also if you are speeding the fine is LE150 to be paid directly or they take the license of the car. It doesn't matter how fast you are speeding, the fine is the same for speeding just 5km over the limit or 50km over the limit! Egyptian logic
> 
> You can get a high fine (LE1500 and a month jail) if you are caught driving a street the wrong way! Again Egyptian logic, much more dangerous  ! Although I find this behaviour quite annoying!
> Sometimes you only will know you have received the fine by renewing your car license!


Hi there,

The key words are “Cairo and Hurghada” in your situations, add Sharm el Sheikh to them and you get a heavy tourism traffic, which leads to:

*Newer radars (Active 24/7 not like other parts of Egypt, where I live, there are about 5 or 6 radars that do have faults and keeps moving all over the province, which is not a small one, and the location where the check point is gonna be is always chosen by the mood of the officer in charge, usually during the day where he could sit in shade and let the “smaller” guys do the job).

*There are also newer cars for the police force for chasing (Chasing is not allowed in Egypt without permission from higher authorities, the only case allowing chasing without permission is when shots are fired on the police force).

*Dunno how to say this one, but in those areas there are better, educated, more civilized officers? If you know what I mean?

Also the 110 km/h speed limit is only in the Red Sea area, heard it was also applied for the Cairo/Alexandria freeway and Cairo/Ismaielia freeway, other parts of Egypt goes by 90 km/h as a speed limit for personal vehicles, dunno what's the reason for that, but I can only imagine it :lol:

I got couple friends who can actually take driving in here without needing hospital for their BP or so, I been with both of them in their cars, usually they don’t worry about the speed limit thing unless the cars coming from the opposite direction flashes their head lights (That’s how “we” Egyptians know that there’s a road block) Usually if there’s no road block the speed goes between 120-170 km/h depending on the traffic and the area where we’re driving , and no one knows about it! It is dangerous and it shouldn’t be reaching “that” speed, specially considering how messed up the roads are in here, not to mention how narrow the roads are in here, specially if you’re overtaking a truck! But as I said, it’s “ok” in here as long as you don’t get caught! We all buckle up though, use signals when changing lanes or making a turn, turn lights on as long as we can’t see sun on the horizon, even if that was happening at 1 PM, park when there’s a phone call, etc, and we do that long time before the law was actually applied, it’s just what we were taught when we started driving.

As for the fines in here, it’s not really about what the law says, more of what the officer tells the smaller guys in the road block, you never actually get to see the office, so you can’t talk to him :lol:

One other thing about it, one of my friends got a “VIP” dad, so he never gets stopped by any road blocks! He just moves like he owns the place cause no one will ever dare to ask him what he’s doing! I don’t usually travel with him, but I’ve seen him on the road once when I was in a bus, dunno what his actual speed was, but the bus was running at 160km/h and he overtook it and disappeared in couple seconds! So I think he wasn’t driving anywhere less than 180-200 km/h!

The problem in here considering the traffic laws is what I said earlier, people flash their lights and they know if there’s a road block, ones driving with no license or got any trouble in their vehicle just park for a while or even turn back and find another road, but the rest of the people do risk crossing there, and trust me, I’ve seen some crazy stuff in the road blocks! Policemen making reasons up for putting fines! But usually a 10 EGP bill rolled and stuck between the driver license and the vehicle license decides for the policeman, and of course his decision goes like (Ma’a al salama ya basha!) no matter how many fines that “basha” should’ve been charged! (NEVER try that with an officer, just the smaller policemen :lol

Welcome to Egypt!


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## Docmaurice

*Egypt is Broken*

Hi Guys and Girls reading this thread,

Sadly, and for reasons which most of us are aware of, Egypt is broken. Egyptians are, generally, nice, kind-hearted, generous, friendly, hospitable people. Sadly, because of the aforementioned reasons, society, respect for the rights, safety and comfort of others, and the PROPER rule of sensible law, does not seem to work anymore. 

So we have the stupid traffic police who cause more accidents and problems then they solve. We have the interminable problems with garbage in the street. We have the petty corruption (and the huge corruption) and the byzantine, unfathomable, back-hander driven, bureaucracy which stifles any semblance of free enterprise without "INFLUENCE" We have a Minister of Communications who's main job at the moment seems to be stifling competition and communication by issuing various decrees, eg banning Skype on the mobile networks, and also making the bureaucracy more tedious and ponderous for Egyptians buying new mobile phone lines etc etc etc

On the positive side, the sun shines all the time, and the standard of living of expats here is MUCH higher than we could afford in our own countries and taxes are much lower. And of course, no-one is forcing us to live here! 

So positive thinking is a pre-requisite for anyone who wants to be an expat in Egypt. if you can manage that then it is a great country to live in 



DeadGuy said:


> Hi there Sam,
> 
> "Al kanoon la yahmy al moghaffaleen" = "Law does not protect idiots" => How things go in here, that's the easiest way out for any officer or any person in charge in here, specially when a person who is NOT an idiot claims for something (Usually claiming for their own rights that they're entitled to have!).
> 
> EVERYONE buckles up now in Egypt, not cause they're worried about their own safety, but cause they're worried about the 50 EGP fine in the newly applied law (Applied since August 2008 if I can remember correctly), speed limit isn't a big issue in this law as long as you didn't get caught by one of the radars, those radars are usually as old as my dead grandpa, adding an extra 10 km/h to your actual speed, and I mean it, cause they need the money (1200 EGP for over speeding) How ever this law does not punish idiots using the right lane for taking over (Taking UK as an ideal example may be?? :lol.
> 
> The piles of trash in the streets, I've seen people who were fighting others who throw their rubbish bags in front of their houses, in the mean while, those same people take their own rubbish bags and throw it in the middle of the street but in another area, not in front of their homes! May be they think it's "ok" as long as it's not near them??!
> 
> If you get defrauded in here all you can do is to learn from it and warn others from dealing with the con who robbed you, there are other things to be done, but don't think it's an option since you're not an Egyptian, not to mention that you are a lady :lol:
> 
> Enjoy it in here
> 
> How's your unfortunate situation going by the way?? Been like 4 weeks so far I think, hope it's all ended now and went well??


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## GM1

regarding the road Cairo-Hurghada: on the Ain Sokhna highway (between Cairo and Ain Sokhna) the speed limit is 120km/h. And for the radar controls in the wide area around Ras Ghareb: police there is getting smarter, they are checking your speed where the drivers from the other side can't see you, and there are no other roads.

For your information: between Cairo-Ain Sokhna 120km/h, 
between Ain Sokhna-Zafaraana (no highway and a lot of dangerous curves) 90km/h, (but here it is possible the other side will flash when there is a radar) 
then from Zafaraana-checkpoint near El Gouna (highway) 100km/h 
and between checkpoint near El Gouna- Hurghada (highway) 90km/h.


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## Sofia Cooper

mardini said:


> I have to make 4 posts before I can reply to any post, otherwise I would have replied to some posts on this forum rather than starting a new thread, in which I would argue the negative attitude towards any country by its own citizens.
> 
> This post is not intended to be offensive in any way, and if some one believed he/she was spoken to in this thread and then felt offended, please reply with your concerns.
> 
> I have read few posts written by western expats in Egypt sharing their experiences when interacting with the locals, or sharing situations they were in where things didn't go according to what seems to be common sense elsewhere in the world. Then I continued to read replies to these posts and always noticed local/citizen participants attribute the negativeness to a nation-wide degrading morals, sometimes they would make arguments that the nation in its entire is no more than what you experienced, and continue to curse the fact they were citizens of this country in a implicit fashion.
> 
> I can understand when foreigners share experiences and feelings where some of them seem negative because they come from societies who live by different sets of rules, in these societies the social and public behavior is not apart from the law practiced within their society, things there make sense because the public behavior is in harmony with the laws established and practiced not as an option but as a way of life. I understand their approach because when they arrive into Egypt they experience a different social behavior that might lure us to believe that the only rule in practice is the absence of rules.
> 
> Therefore, when foreigners share their experiences it can be understood that when a certain practice should have been different because it would have been more logical, I take it that may be there is something I should learn from this: Either something actually was done wrong based on the experience I read; or I argue that it was done perfectly right because there are established social practices that allow for this experience to happen the way it did or may be the law allow for it. If the first then I would abide by what makes sense and entertain the common sense practice among those I interact with on daily basis, if the latter then I would reply with my understanding of the social behavior or the law and clarify the experience. In both cases, I would have shown positive attitude.
> 
> Now, I know negative practices exist everywhere on earth, that's why we have laws. I lived in the U.S., in France, and been to many Arab states, I can comfortably say that wrong-doing existed in the places I've been to. Of course the extent and severity of wrong-doing varied, and the scale of how massive or narrow it was always had to do with how abiding the society was with the established laws. How is all this related to what I want to deliver in this post?
> 
> Simply put, societies are made of individuals who shape its behavior, and therefore if the Egyptian society is at large - as entertained by locals/citizens contributing to this forum - messed up and seems unrepairable, then the question would be, how much are you or have you - locals/citizens contributing to this forum - contributing or contributed to this unacceptable behavior? Or is your criticism and frustration due to the fact that you are so different from the society in which you live.
> 
> Admit it or don't; you are part of this society and are contributing to the continuous wrong-doing either by personally being part of the wrong-doing or by not taking action to correct the wrong-doing when possible, and if you have had successful stories where you were able to correct things, then please share with the rest so we can give you credit and neutrally evaluate your contributions to this forum about "your" country and society.
> 
> It is easier to not do anything than to take action, but then this what differentiate good people from just people.
> 
> When I read the posts I referred to earlier, I noticed that the wrong-doing is attributed to people not abiding by the law. My personal experiences in Cairo also strengthen this conclusion.
> 
> Egyptians might argue that everyone else is not abiding by the law and the whole thing is just a mess, but... two wrong things don't make one right. Here is a hint: why don't you start by respecting the established laws, lets say start by adhering to the established traffic laws, I know they exist because I read them, then may be the next step would be to refrain from throwing left-overs on the street, and use the trash cans, if they don't exist where you live or walk or drive then keep it with you till you find one. Then ultimately move on to the peak of it; show courtesy to your fellow citizens, allow them to cross roads safely for example, as it doesn't mean you were cheated when pausing for few seconds to allow an old lady, an old man, a child, or an animal to cross the road safely. Don't push people around as you walk, and if you accidentally did, then apologize, it is so polite to do so. Don't honk your horn in the same instance the green light flashes, allow for few seconds for the traffic to move as the 100 cars ahead of you takes a few while to move, given of course that you actually stopped for the red light, oh and by the way, stop for the red light, it will save your life, or mine.
> Wear the safety belt and enforce it on people who ride with you, and if your car generates lots of led-smoke don't drive it, fix it first, and if you don't have the resources to fix it, then park it and use an alternative mean of transportation until you have raised enough to fix it, you definitely will save my and other people's lives. If you are driving a car, stay on your lane, don't drive on the white lines as this misleads other drivers, keep at least one car distance between you and the car ahead of you, it is safer, remember if you can't see the rear tires of the car ahead of you, then you are dangerously too close. It is not too crowded out there, just too disorganized. Use the signal lights when shifting lanes, speak to me, your flash light is your language when you and I are driving, and use your rear mirror and side mirrors, don't keep them bent-in when you ride in your car and move. If the street is divided to 3 lanes only don't form a 7th lane, better late than dead, don't overtake my right at the U turn, don't come from the far right and stop your car in front of me, you blind my view and it is rude. If I am talking to the help desk anywhere after I have waited in line, don't jump in front of me and talk to the front desk the same time I am talking, take time; stand in the line and be polite, your time is not more precious than mine. Of course this is not everything but the things I could think of momentarily.
> 
> My friend; of course I am not saying that you are doing all or any of that, not at all, but I encourage you to entertain the positive attitude culture among others who are not.
> 
> To sum up: Don't criticize what you are part of, for if it is still in practice then you haven't done enough to stop it by the time you criticized it. To rephrase: if you are criticizing then you are not helping.
> 
> Hope you are having a similar wonderful morning, TGIF.::clap2:
> 
> Cheers...
> 
> Ibrahim


 Just came accross this Ibrahim and wow wow wow ......all very true,, this was an insight to the perfect world ... and i iwsh it was so .....but sadly there is too many selfish, uncaring , hypocrtical people in the big wide world .....but if we all made a little differnence in our attitude we may all notice a big differnace ....and may like what we see , we may all end up being better people in the end ...i may even end up liking Deadguy :eyebrows: (joke)


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## MaidenScotland

Sofia Cooper said:


> Just came accross this Ibrahim and wow wow wow ......all very true,, this was an insight to the perfect world ... and i iwsh it was so .....but sadly there is too many selfish, uncaring , hypocrtical people in the big wide world .....but if we all made a little differnence in our attitude we may all notice a big differnace ....and may like what we see , we may all end up being better people in the end ...i may even end up liking Deadguy :eyebrows: (joke)




Yes it is a good post, but sadly it is in the wrong forum it should be in an Egyptian forum. I never throw rubbish in the street or in the Nile, nor does any other expat I know, god I even recycle so it is nice for them to root through my rubbish, expats generally follow traffic rules.. until they get here and realise there are none and you have to go with the flow. Generally expats who come here on an expat package tend to be law abiding citizens in their own country of origin and it comes naturally to them to continue obeying the laws of the land.
Egypt has to clean up it's own mess and not expect visitors to the country to do it for them, cos that will never happen.


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## mardini

Sofia Cooper said:


> but if we all made a little differnence in our attitude we may all notice a big differnace ....and may like what we see , we may all end up being better people in the end.


Amen to that Sofia, we sure can't fix the world, but we can try, and also continue to positively influence,  you know some people just don't like happy thoughts.

Cheers.


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## mardini

MaidenScotland said:


> Yes it is a good post, but sadly it is in the wrong forum it should be in an Egyptian forum. I never throw rubbish in the street or in the Nile, nor does any other expat I know, god I even recycle so it is nice for them to root through my rubbish, expats generally follow traffic rules.. until they get here and realise there are none and you have to go with the flow. Generally expats who come here on an expat package tend to be law abiding citizens in their own country of origin and it comes naturally to them to continue obeying the laws of the land.
> Egypt has to clean up it's own mess and not expect visitors to the country to do it for them, cos that will never happen.


MaidenScotland, if you don't fit the paradigm, then trust me, my post wasn't meant for you 

Cheers..


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## Sofia Cooper

mardini said:


> Amen to that Sofia, we sure can't fix the world, but we can try, and also continue to positively influence,  you know some people just don't like happy thoughts.
> 
> Cheers.


LOL welcome back from where ever , yes i like that thread , a real good read , just came accross it, i like positivity , i also like "happy" lol but some people think iam just crazy ...hope you had a good weekend in sunny EG


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## mardini

Sofia Cooper said:


> i like positivity , i also like "happy" lol but some people think iam just crazy


ah don't worry about them, I know someone who didn't care for certain people, and he is doing ok now... Bill Gates!

The weather is just perfect "for me" compared to where I came from, notice where I put quotes, some people would have jumped on me for saying that 

I was around, researching, gathering ideas and stuff, just not too much activity on the forum, how are you doing there?


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## Sofia Cooper

mardini said:


> ah don't worry about them, I know someone who didn't care for certain people, and he is doing ok now... Bill Gates!
> 
> The weather is just perfect "for me" compared to where I came from, notice where I put quotes, some people would have jumped on me for saying that
> 
> I was around, researching, gathering ideas and stuff, just not too much activity on the forum, how are you doing there?


Lol how am i doing ...well ive been enjoying the forum and adding a few threads myself lol ...in between working shifts ,, ...and managed to use the forum lounge and raise a few eyebrows :eyebrows:
But yeah im good and happy and chilled ,,, just one thing miissing ...my plane ticket to Cairo ..looking at booking it this week 
So the weather has been good , ?


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## mardini

Sofia Cooper said:


> Lol how am i doing ...well ive been enjoying the forum and adding a few threads myself lol ...in between working shifts ,, ...and managed to use the forum lounge and raise a few eyebrows :eyebrows:
> But yeah im good and happy and chilled ,,, just one thing miissing ...my plane ticket to Cairo ..looking at booking it this week
> So the weather has been good , ?


I wish you a nice flight, I know you will enjoy it here. 

The weather has been perfect so far, with an exception of just few days in the past two month, it went up to 106F, and was uncomfortable. I came from a good 122F so I feel good regardless, and at night it gets better, cooler with a nice breeze.

And yes, I also find forums to be challenging, it took me awhile to learn how to send a private message even with detailed instructions from a good man from the forum.


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## Sofia Cooper

mardini said:


> I wish you a nice flight, I know you will enjoy it here.
> 
> The weather has been perfect so far, with an exception of just few days in the past two month, it went up to 106F, and was uncomfortable. I came from a good 122F so I feel good regardless, and at night it gets better, cooler with a nice breeze.
> 
> And yes, I also find forums to be challenging, it took me awhile to learn how to send a private message even with detailed instructions from a good man from the forum.


I am going to Cuba 1st , before i can come to Egypt, and then it is to see the situation on living there ..so i hope to arrive in the nxt four weeks ...
106F is high let alone 122F, thats jst to hot !!!! 
Well this is the 1st time using a forum so it was a challenge, but now got thehang of it....the only thing close to a forum is Mikey on facebook lol and that wasnt that good ....
Now sending messages i havent tried as yet .....but iam sure the rate of how much i have been using th forum , i will soon learn wel actaully i have but they have been only replies . i havnt tried to compose one ..


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## jojo2005

Hear, hear!! Some great words of wisdom. We can only, each and every one of us do our best. And when I get home to good old blighty and find myself clearing up the rubbish where the foxes have ripped open the black backs and spread the contents up and down the street...and its raining....and grey....I'm so happy to have a bolt hole in the sun to go back to


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## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> Yes it is a good post, but sadly it is in the wrong forum it should*n't* be in an Egyptian forum. ...............
> 
> 
> Egypt has to clean up it's own mess and not expect visitors to the country to do it for them, cos that will never happen.


Seven thousand years of HISTORY......Who needs to clean up anything after that? :lol:


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## Sofia Cooper

DeadGuy said:


> Seven thousand years of HISTORY......Who needs to clean up anything after that? :lol:


History is history ....... it's what the future holds that makes the differance


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## MaidenScotland

jojo2005 said:


> Hear, hear!! Some great words of wisdom. We can only, each and every one of us do our best. And when I get home to good old blighty and find myself clearing up the rubbish where the foxes have ripped open the black backs and spread the contents up and down the street...and its raining....and grey....I'm so happy to have a bolt hole in the sun to go back to




Yes but at least it is the foxes!!! There is a huge green wheelie bin right outside the police station next to me and when it is full and the police want to use it they just tip it out into the street and wheel the bin away to fill it up with their rubbish..

Egyptians are very proud of the culture and history and rightly so but I wish they were as proud of their immediate surroundings and didn't drop everything at their arse as we say in Scotland.


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## jojo2005

I agree with you just looking on the bright side 
I visited Sharm in 1984 while I was backpacking and staying in a Beduoin hut on the beach in Dahab. My husband and I did lots of walking in the mountains from Dahab and it was absolutely beautiful. 2 years ago I revisited with my 20 year old son (his father having been dead for 18 years) to show him one of the places that his father and I loved so much. We took a taxi out into the desert and I was horrified by the amount of rubbish blowing here there and everywhere - the plastic bags and bottles that you just couldn't escape from and it is very very sad.


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## MaidenScotland

jojo2005 said:


> I agree with you just looking on the bright side
> I visited Sharm in 1984 while I was backpacking and staying in a Beduoin hut on the beach in Dahab. My husband and I did lots of walking in the mountains from Dahab and it was absolutely beautiful. 2 years ago I revisited with my 20 year old son (his father having been dead for 18 years) to show him one of the places that his father and I loved so much. We took a taxi out into the desert and I was horrified by the amount of rubbish blowing here there and everywhere - the plastic bags and bottles that you just couldn't escape from and it is very very sad.


It is sad Jojo about the rubbish, it also amazes me that when we see programmes about famine etc and they say the logistics is the problem and they can't get the corn etc out to the village, they then show you a journey to a village and lo and behold you see adverts for Coca Cola and the little red huts that sell the drink are everywhere.. off on a tangent there but I am sure you know what I am getting at.
Maiden


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## jojo2005

Yes Maiden I know exactly what you are getting at. We all have to do our little bit to protect our beautiful planet and there really is no excuse for hunger, yet!


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## mardini

DeadGuy said:


> Seven thousand years of HISTORY......Who needs to clean up anything after that? :lol:


Wait, watch, and learn....


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## mardini

MaidenScotland said:


> Yes but at least it is the foxes!!! There is a huge green wheelie bin right outside the police station next to me and when it is full and the police want to use it they just tip it out into the street and wheel the bin away to fill it up with their rubbish..
> 
> Egyptians are very proud of the culture and history and rightly so but I wish they were as proud of their immediate surroundings and didn't drop everything at their arse as we say in Scotland.


MaidenScotland, you are right, I share the same feeling.  but apparently their a*ses are simply closer than the bins.

You know, their is what is called the "big picture" and there is the immediate things that we really care for. 

The big picture, will take many life times to figure out and change, but day to day is more important at this point.

You seem to live in an area where there is a lot of trash on the streets. I have chosen to live elsewhere, it is very clean here, people are also really clean, there are dedicated cleaners provided by the government and by individual landlords to clean the area. So things are fine and not blood pressure igniting.

I also never visit the dirty areas, I just go to the clean places, much more relaxing.

I remember one time my commander and I ended up in one of the ghetto neighborhoods in Washington D.C. as we were driving from Dulles to our hotel, believe me, it was more dirty than a lot of places here. Not mentioning that my commander was blond, so his life was at risk, he freaked out.

I don't know Scotland or Britain, may be they don't have that.

If I were you I would avoid all dirty places in Cairo when you can. That should take care of some pain.

Egyptians who live in those area; if they are content, then hey, I am happy too. Let them be. This is a huge city that has everything. 

I can go on for ages on this  but I will retire now.... 

Cheer up..



Top of the day.


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## DeadGuy

MaidenScotland said:


> It is sad Jojo about the rubbish, it also amazes me that when we see programmes about famine etc and they say the logistics is the problem and they can't get the corn etc out to the village, they then show you a journey to a village and lo and behold you see adverts for Coca Cola and the little red huts that sell the drink are everywhere.. off on a tangent there but I am sure you know what I am getting at.
> Maiden


Those lil red huts pump money back into someone's pockets and bank accounts :lol: so it will always be there!

But cleaning the place would cost this someone some of "his/her" money, so....... :lol:

I prefer PEPSI by the way 

Enjoy the little things


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## DeadGuy

mardini said:


> Wait, watch, and learn....


Ok..........

Just take it easy dude, I can still see the default font size you know! I'm dead, not blind!!!!

But though it's in a really large font ..... I still don't know what you're talking about?!

Wait for??? Mummies to wake up and clean the place or something?!


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## MaidenScotland

mardini said:


> MaidenScotland, you are right, I share the same feeling.  but apparently their a*ses are simply closer than the bins.
> 
> You know, their is what is called the "big picture" and there is the immediate things that we really care for.
> 
> The big picture, will take many life times to figure out and change, but day to day is more important at this point.
> 
> You seem to live in an area where there is a lot of trash on the streets. I have chosen to live elsewhere, it is very clean here, people are also really clean, there are dedicated cleaners provided by the government and by individual landlords to clean the area. So things are fine and not blood pressure igniting.
> 
> I also never visit the dirty areas, I just go to the clean places, much more relaxing.
> 
> I remember one time my commander and I ended up in one of the ghetto neighborhoods in Washington D.C. as we were driving from Dulles to our hotel, believe me, it was more dirty than a lot of places here. Not mentioning that my commander was blond, so his life was at risk, he freaked out.
> 
> I don't know Scotland or Britain, may be they don't have that.
> 
> If I were you I would avoid all dirty places in Cairo when you can. That should take care of some pain.
> 
> Egyptians who live in those area; if they are content, then hey, I am happy too. Let them be. This is a huge city that has everything.
> 
> I can go on for ages on this  but I will retire now....
> 
> Cheer up..
> 
> 
> 
> Top of the day.


I have no choice in where I live... if I want to avoid all the dirty places then I cannot go out the door, I am going to take some photos of the street behind me and post them and maybe even send them to the government.. perhaps they are like our queen.. she thinks the whole world smells of new paint:clap2:

Maiden


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## Beatle

mardini said:


> I also never visit the dirty areas, I just go to the clean places, much more relaxing..


Mardini

I have never been into "Egypt bashing" but even I have to ask how you travel around Cairo without visiting the dirty areas?!!!


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## mardini

Beatle said:


> Mardini
> 
> I have never been into "Egypt bashing" but even I have to ask how you travel around Cairo without visiting the dirty areas?!!!


Generally, I use the highways for the places I know, and I use Google Earth a night before I go anywhere I don't know and map my path. I always check with people I know weather or not the road is still running as shown on Google Earth, and I ask if it is a trouble road, like if it is jammed or pass through ghetto-like areas, its that simple.

I did end up few times in places that I did not intend to be, because I missed an exit here or there.

See, I don't live in Cairo, I live in 6th of October and I rarely go to the Cairo areas that are referred to here, for example, I have never been to places like agooza, or bolaa, or shobra, and similar areas, I have no business there and I know these areas are less fortunate than other places. When I go to Maadi, I use the highway, and all the way is good way. I find it bit less easy when I go to Garden City though.

I have chosen to go down town few times, merely because I wanted to see mass of people around me for a change.

C'est ca.


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## Sofia Cooper

mardini said:


> Wait, watch, and learn....


 loooooooooool


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## MaidenScotland

mardini said:


> Generally, I use the highways for the places I know, and I use Google Earth a night before I go anywhere I don't know and map my path. I always check with people I know weather or not the road is still running as shown on Google Earth, and I ask if it is a trouble road, like if it is jammed or pass through ghetto-like areas, its that simple.
> 
> I did end up few times in places that I did not intend to be, because I missed an exit here or there.
> 
> See, I don't live in Cairo, I live in 6th of October and I rarely go to the Cairo areas that are referred to here, for example, I have never been to places like agooza, or bolaa, or shobra, and similar areas, I have no business there and I know these areas are less fortunate than other places. When I go to Maadi, I use the highway, and all the way is good way. I find it bit less easy when I go to Garden City though.
> 
> I have chosen to go down town few times, merely because I wanted to see mass of people around me for a change.
> 
> C'est ca.



That is the difference we all can't pick and choose where we have to go and Mohandiseen and Dokki and parts of Zamalak are as litter strewn as anywhere else. I like to walk and walking shows up the litter a lot more than driving past in a car.
A funny little story.. a friend was eating on the terrace in the Marriot when a rat came out of the bushes and sat under their table eating spillage, my friend and company stamped their feet, shooed etc and the rat sat there, they called the waiter over who in turn got the line manager who told them, "What do you expect you are in the garden" my friends retort was "at the prices I am paying I don't expect to share it with a rat"...we just cracked up with memories of Manuel


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## Beatle

mardini said:


> See, I don't live in Cairo, I live in 6th of October and I rarely go to the Cairo areas that are referred to here, for example, I have never been to places like agooza, or bolaa, or shobra, and similar areas, I have no business there and I know these areas are less fortunate than other places. When I go to Maadi, I use the highway, and all the way is good way. I find it bit less easy when I go to Garden City though.
> 
> I have chosen to go down town few times, merely because I wanted to see mass of people around me for a change.
> 
> C'est ca.


Ahhh you are talking about those places. Yes I avoid them too - I was just thinking that places like downtown and Khan El Khanilli are also quite dirty. To be honest, walking in quite a few places in Cairo can prove challenging, even when they are considered to be cleaner - I have nearly disappeared down potholes in Zamalek "covered" with drain covers on more than one occasion!


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## jojo2005

DeadGuy said:


> Ok..........
> 
> Just take it easy dude, I can still see the default font size you know! I'm dead, not blind!!!!
> 
> But though it's in a really large font ..... I still don't know what you're talking about?!
> 
> Wait for??? Mummies to wake up and clean the place or something?!


Classic (why isn't there a smiley laughing their socks off) but each of us has watched, what are we waiting for what have we learnt about plastic? :confused2::focus:.....if only it were that simple. Me? I'll just be happy to get back to the warm.


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## mardini

MaidenScotland said:


> I have no choice in where I live... if I want to avoid all the dirty places then I cannot go out the door, I am going to take some photos of the street behind me and post them and maybe even send them to the government.. perhaps they are like our queen.. she thinks the whole world smells of new paint:clap2:
> 
> Maiden


mmmm, I feel you, so you are bound by the lodging provided, not good. I have an apartment overlooking the Pyramids in Haram street, I can actually see the Pyramids from my balcony, great view huh? Believe me I haven't been to it for over 8 months, because I find Haram street too annoying.

Some companies provide lodging reimbursement for their employees so they can lease the place they want in the area they want, your situation is obviously different.

Just too bad, is it too noisy there too?


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## Beatle

mardini said:


> mmmm, I feel you, so you are bound by the lodging provided, not good. I have an apartment overlooking the Pyramids in Haram street, I can actually see the Pyramids from my balcony, great view huh? Believe me I haven't been to it for over 8 months, because I find Haram street too annoying.
> 
> Some companies provide lodging reimbursement for their employees so they can lease the place they want in the area they want, your situation is obviously different.
> 
> Just too bad, is it too noisy there too?


Around Haram St isn't very clean though, is it?!

Last time I went out to the pyramids with my mother and aunt, people kept trying to stop the taxi to tell me that the road to the pyramids was closed to taxis and I would have to do the rest of my journey by horse and cart!


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## mardini

Beatle said:


> Last time I went out to the pyramids with my mother and aunt, people kept trying to stop the taxi to tell me that the road to the pyramids was closed to taxis and I would have to do the rest of my journey by horse and cart!


I drive my car all the way up right till before the check point at the Pyramids, I am not sure about Taxis but I am inclined to believe it is a scam.

Haram street is way too crowded and noisy, and belly dancing there is not genuine either.

I personally like the Khan but on certain days of the year, two to be exact; a day every 6 months. Go there, enjoy the crowd, have a cup of tea, sometimes do shisha and talk to the little sales kids there and listen to their jokes, and there is an excellent restaurant there managed by the Oberoi Hotel Group, it is called Naguib Mahfouz restaurant, I love the food and it is the second cleanest restaurant I trust to eat in.


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## MaidenScotland

mardini said:


> I drive my car all the way up right till before the check point at the Pyramids, I am not sure about Taxis but I am inclined to believe it is a scam.
> 
> Haram street is way too crowded and noisy, and belly dancing there is not genuine either.
> 
> I personally like the Khan but on certain days of the year, two to be exact; a day every 6 months. Go there, enjoy the crowd, have a cup of tea, sometimes do shisha and talk to the little sales kids there and listen to their jokes, and there is an excellent restaurant there managed by the Oberoi Hotel Group, it is called Naguib Mahfouz restaurant, I love the food and it is the second cleanest restaurant I trust to eat in.


Lol I was in the khan today and it was cleaner than any other time I have been there but saying that in all the years I have been here I have visited the Khan no more than 5 times 
Yes I have eaten in in the restaurant but it closes very early.


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## mardini

MaidenScotland said:


> That is the difference we all can't pick and choose where we have to go and Mohandiseen and Dokki and parts of Zamalak are as litter strewn as anywhere else. I like to walk and walking shows up the litter a lot more than driving past in a car.
> 
> I agree.
> 
> 
> A funny little story.. a friend was eating on the terrace in the Marriot when a rat came out of the bushes and sat under their table eating spillage, my friend and company stamped their feet, shooed etc and the rat sat there, they called the waiter over who in turn got the line manager who told them, "What do you expect you are in the garden" my friends retort was "at the prices I am paying I don't expect to share it with a rat"...we just cracked up with memories of Manuel


The rate also paid the premium price, do you think his fellow rats allowed him to wonder about a 5 star garden for free? What a joke  that's a story to tell.


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## MaidenScotland

mardini said:


> mmmm, I feel you, so you are bound by the lodging provided, not good. I have an apartment overlooking the Pyramids in Haram street, I can actually see the Pyramids from my balcony, great view huh? Believe me I haven't been to it for over 8 months, because I find Haram street too annoying.
> 
> Some companies provide lodging reimbursement for their employees so they can lease the place they want in the area they want, your situation is obviously different.
> 
> Just too bad, is it too noisy there too?




I live in a beautiful building.. yes even here in Agouza we have beautiful buildings.
I overlook the river and the island. 
Agouza is not an area you would avoid as there is nothing to bring you here to start with. It must be the smallest district in Cairo.. It takes 7 minutes to walk the length of Nile St that is in Agouza


----------



## Beatle

mardini said:


> I drive my car all the way up right till before the check point at the Pyramids, I am not sure about Taxis but I am inclined to believe it is a scam.
> 
> Haram street is way too crowded and noisy, and belly dancing there is not genuine either.
> 
> I personally like the Khan but on certain days of the year, two to be exact; a day every 6 months. Go there, enjoy the crowd, have a cup of tea, sometimes do shisha and talk to the little sales kids there and listen to their jokes, and there is an excellent restaurant there managed by the Oberoi Hotel Group, it is called Naguib Mahfouz restaurant, I love the food and it is the second cleanest restaurant I trust to eat in.


No it is a scam - they got a bit of a shock when I spoke to them in Arabic (as rubbish as my language skills are!)

I have not tried that restaurant - I had heard it was quite expensive. We will usually have a drink in Feshawi. Where is the cleanest restaurant in your opinion?!


----------



## mardini

Beatle said:


> No it is a scam - they got a bit of a shock when I spoke to them in Arabic (as rubbish as my language skills are!)
> 
> I have not tried that restaurant - I had heard it was quite expensive. We will usually have a drink in Feshawi. Where is the cleanest restaurant in your opinion?!


I don't know the name of the restaurant, it is at the Grand Hyatt hotel, closer to the nile bank but indoors. It is also clean but the food is not close to as good as it is at the Naguib Mahfooz restaurant at least for my taste.


----------



## Beatle

mardini said:


> I don't know the name of the restaurant, it is at the Grand Hyatt hotel, closer to the nile bank but indoors. It is also clean but the food is not close to as good as it is at the Naguib Mahfooz restaurant at least for my taste.


I have eaten at the food court there a couple of times before going to the cinema. The food in the hotel and food court is good


----------



## Mario

*Totally agree with you...BUT*

Admit it or don't; you are part of this society and are contributing to the continuous wrong-doing either by personally being part of the wrong-doing or by not taking action to correct the wrong-doing when possible, and if you have had successful stories where you were able to correct things, then please share with the rest so we can give you credit and neutrally evaluate your contributions to this forum about "your" country and society.

It is easier to not do anything than to take action, but then this what differentiate good people from just people.

Ibrahim[/QUOTE]


Well said! and makes and absolute sense Ibrahim!
BUT......

Allow me to quote and comment on some paragraph of yours please!yes, any citizens have a responsibility to towards their well-being and the wrong-doing deed's prevention(as you said above"when possible"), and to make it POSSIBLE, it has to be done through the local authorities, BUT without the local authorities implementing such laws into the societies either via schools educational programmes, penalty fares, prosecution....etc...the nation shall not be following the right deed (you called earlier as common sense).Because might be common sense for someone, might not be for another!!...

having said that,this doesn't mean that I don't agree with you still...it's just the fact that sometimes they are expected to act and follow the traffic rules correctly/properly so we say that they do respect the existing law! but I say that the law maybe there, whether it's been implemented FAIRLY and CORRECTLY or not..this would be the BIG question? 

All I am trying to say that one certainly can not only blame and criticise a nation for their wrong-doings, like the motoring traffic issues, because simply road users don't even realise that it is wrong. the most blame should be thrown on the government 's shoulders, rules and regulations should be implemented and displayed clearly for road users to read and react upon,and most importantly is educational schemes should take place for obtaining a driver licence for example, so locals can realise and differentiate between the should dos or don'ts as you mentioned previously. 
So whenever they breach it they get punished, like some other EU countries but if the speeding camera is hidden so what is the God damn point of it except catching out drivers when it's too late where damage might have occurred already. 

good example, as this is where I currently live in ...In london, some minorities tend to break the law if they get a chance to, either by traffic offences or scam or others, but the only difference is you complain about it and surely something is got to be done about it because if not, complainers voice tend to go up high to the top rank, while in Egypt as they say (you complain to anyone apart from God, then you're only casing yourself nothing except humiliation)...

I used to live in Egypt more than half of my life and not once I've been convinced with how daily life operates out there,but however anti-wrong-doing actions you take..wouldn't certainly be enough to improve a whole society unless it comes from the law executor(government) 

No offence please (As if it's a shepherd and his responsibility is to make sure his herd live together in harmony)
As half Egyptian, I love Egypt and always will...if only government cares and country's internal issues are being focussed on and addressed!!!!

I believe in (however long it takes to get things right, as along as you're trying hard you will get there eventually... )

Good Day everyone!


----------



## Mario

well, tolerant thoughts towards the local Egyptians rather than the can't-be-asked government...which I do support 100%

My country is falling apart


----------



## Mario

*Totally agree with you...BUT*



mardini said:


> I have to make 4 posts before I can reply to any post, otherwise I would have replied to some posts on this forum rather than starting a new thread, in which I would argue the negative attitude towards any country by its own citizens.
> 
> This post is not intended to be offensive in any way, and if some one believed he/she was spoken to in this thread and then felt offended, please reply with your concerns.
> 
> I have read few posts written by western expats in Egypt sharing their experiences when interacting with the locals, or sharing situations they were in where things didn't go according to what seems to be common sense elsewhere in the world. Then I continued to read replies to these posts and always noticed local/citizen participants attribute the negativeness to a nation-wide degrading morals, sometimes they would make arguments that the nation in its entire is no more than what you experienced, and continue to curse the fact they were citizens of this country in a implicit fashion.
> 
> I can understand when foreigners share experiences and feelings where some of them seem negative because they come from societies who live by different sets of rules, in these societies the social and public behavior is not apart from the law practiced within their society, things there make sense because the public behavior is in harmony with the laws established and practiced not as an option but as a way of life. I understand their approach because when they arrive into Egypt they experience a different social behavior that might lure us to believe that the only rule in practice is the absence of rules.
> 
> Therefore, when foreigners share their experiences it can be understood that when a certain practice should have been different because it would have been more logical, I take it that may be there is something I should learn from this: Either something actually was done wrong based on the experience I read; or I argue that it was done perfectly right because there are established social practices that allow for this experience to happen the way it did or may be the law allow for it. If the first then I would abide by what makes sense and entertain the common sense practice among those I interact with on daily basis, if the latter then I would reply with my understanding of the social behavior or the law and clarify the experience. In both cases, I would have shown positive attitude.
> 
> Now, I know negative practices exist everywhere on earth, that's why we have laws. I lived in the U.S., in France, and been to many Arab states, I can comfortably say that wrong-doing existed in the places I've been to. Of course the extent and severity of wrong-doing varied, and the scale of how massive or narrow it was always had to do with how abiding the society was with the established laws. How is all this related to what I want to deliver in this post?
> 
> Simply put, societies are made of individuals who shape its behavior, and therefore if the Egyptian society is at large - as entertained by locals/citizens contributing to this forum - messed up and seems unrepairable, then the question would be, how much are you or have you - locals/citizens contributing to this forum - contributing or contributed to this unacceptable behavior? Or is your criticism and frustration due to the fact that you are so different from the society in which you live.
> 
> Admit it or don't; you are part of this society and are contributing to the continuous wrong-doing either by personally being part of the wrong-doing or by not taking action to correct the wrong-doing when possible, and if you have had successful stories where you were able to correct things, then please share with the rest so we can give you credit and neutrally evaluate your contributions to this forum about "your" country and society.
> 
> It is easier to not do anything than to take action, but then this what differentiate good people from just people.
> 
> When I read the posts I referred to earlier, I noticed that the wrong-doing is attributed to people not abiding by the law. My personal experiences in Cairo also strengthen this conclusion.
> 
> Egyptians might argue that everyone else is not abiding by the law and the whole thing is just a mess, but... two wrong things don't make one right. Here is a hint: why don't you start by respecting the established laws, lets say start by adhering to the established traffic laws, I know they exist because I read them, then may be the next step would be to refrain from throwing left-overs on the street, and use the trash cans, if they don't exist where you live or walk or drive then keep it with you till you find one. Then ultimately move on to the peak of it; show courtesy to your fellow citizens, allow them to cross roads safely for example, as it doesn't mean you were cheated when pausing for few seconds to allow an old lady, an old man, a child, or an animal to cross the road safely. Don't push people around as you walk, and if you accidentally did, then apologize, it is so polite to do so. Don't honk your horn in the same instance the green light flashes, allow for few seconds for the traffic to move as the 100 cars ahead of you takes a few while to move, given of course that you actually stopped for the red light, oh and by the way, stop for the red light, it will save your life, or mine.
> Wear the safety belt and enforce it on people who ride with you, and if your car generates lots of led-smoke don't drive it, fix it first, and if you don't have the resources to fix it, then park it and use an alternative mean of transportation until you have raised enough to fix it, you definitely will save my and other people's lives. If you are driving a car, stay on your lane, don't drive on the white lines as this misleads other drivers, keep at least one car distance between you and the car ahead of you, it is safer, remember if you can't see the rear tires of the car ahead of you, then you are dangerously too close. It is not too crowded out there, just too disorganized. Use the signal lights when shifting lanes, speak to me, your flash light is your language when you and I are driving, and use your rear mirror and side mirrors, don't keep them bent-in when you ride in your car and move. If the street is divided to 3 lanes only don't form a 7th lane, better late than dead, don't overtake my right at the U turn, don't come from the far right and stop your car in front of me, you blind my view and it is rude. If I am talking to the help desk anywhere after I have waited in line, don't jump in front of me and talk to the front desk the same time I am talking, take time; stand in the line and be polite, your time is not more precious than mine. Of course this is not everything but the things I could think of momentarily.
> 
> 
> Well said! and makes an absolute sense Ibrahim!
> BUT......
> 
> Allow me to quote and comment on some paragraph of yours please!yes, any citizens have a responsibility to towards their well-being and the wrong-doing deed's prevention(as you said above"when possible"), and to make it POSSIBLE, it has to be done through the local authorities, BUT without the local authorities implementing such laws into the societies either via schools educational programmes, penalty fares, prosecution....etc...the nation shall not be following the right deed (you called earlier as common sense).Because might be common sense for someone, might not be for another!!...
> 
> having said that,this doesn't mean that I don't agree with you still...it's just the fact that sometimes they are expected to act and follow the traffic rules correctly/properly so we say that they do respect the existing law! but I say that the law maybe there, whether it's been implemented FAIRLY and CORRECTLY or not..this would be the BIG question?
> 
> All I am trying to say that one certainly can not only blame and criticise a nation for their wrong-doings, like the motoring traffic issues, because simply road users don't even realise that it is wrong. the most blame should be thrown on the government 's shoulders, rules and regulations should be implemented and displayed clearly for road users to read and react upon,and most importantly is educational schemes should take place for obtaining a driver licence for example, so locals can realise and differentiate between the should dos or don'ts as you mentioned previously.
> So whenever they breach it they get punished, like some other EU countries but if the speeding camera is hidden so what is the God damn point of it except catching out drivers when it's too late where damage might have occurred already.
> 
> good example, as this is where I currently live in ...In london, some minorities tend to break the law if they get a chance to, either by traffic offences or scam or others, but the only difference is you complain about it and surely something is got to be done about it because if not, complainers voice tend to go up high to the top rank, while in Egypt as they say (you complain to anyone apart from God, then you're only casing yourself nothing except humiliation)...
> 
> I used to live in Egypt more than half of my life and not once I've been convinced with how daily life operates out there,but however anti-wrong-doing actions you take..wouldn't certainly be enough to improve a whole society unless it comes from the law executor(government)
> 
> No offence please (As if it's a shepherd and his responsibility is to make sure his herd live together in harmony)
> As half Egyptian, I love Egypt and always will...if only government cares and country's internal issues are being focussed on and addressed!!!!
> 
> I believe in (however long it takes to get things right, as along as you're trying hard you will get there eventually... )
> 
> Good Day everyone!


----------



## Sofia Cooper

Mario said:


> Admit it or don't; you are part of this society and are contributing to the continuous wrong-doing either by personally being part of the wrong-doing or by not taking action to correct the wrong-doing when possible, and if you have had successful stories where you were able to correct things, then please share with the rest so we can give you credit and neutrally evaluate your contributions to this forum about "your" country and society.
> 
> It is easier to not do anything than to take action, but then this what differentiate good people from just people.
> 
> Ibrahim



Well said! and makes and absolute sense Ibrahim!
BUT......

Allow me to quote and comment on some paragraph of yours please!yes, any citizens have a responsibility to towards their well-being and the wrong-doing deed's prevention(as you said above"when possible"), and to make it POSSIBLE, it has to be done through the local authorities, BUT without the local authorities implementing such laws into the societies either via schools educational programmes, penalty fares, prosecution....etc...the nation shall not be following the right deed (you called earlier as common sense).Because might be common sense for someone, might not be for another!!...

having said that,this doesn't mean that I don't agree with you still...it's just the fact that sometimes they are expected to act and follow the traffic rules correctly/properly so we say that they do respect the existing law! but I say that the law maybe there, whether it's been implemented FAIRLY and CORRECTLY or not..this would be the BIG question? 

All I am trying to say that one certainly can not only blame and criticise a nation for their wrong-doings, like the motoring traffic issues, because simply road users don't even realise that it is wrong. the most blame should be thrown on the government 's shoulders, rules and regulations should be implemented and displayed clearly for road users to read and react upon,and most importantly is educational schemes should take place for obtaining a driver licence for example, so locals can realise and differentiate between the should dos or don'ts as you mentioned previously. 
So whenever they breach it they get punished, like some other EU countries but if the speeding camera is hidden so what is the God damn point of it except catching out drivers when it's too late where damage might have occurred already. 

good example, as this is where I currently live in ...In london, some minorities tend to break the law if they get a chance to, either by traffic offences or scam or others, but the only difference is you complain about it and surely something is got to be done about it because if not, complainers voice tend to go up high to the top rank, while in Egypt as they say (you complain to anyone apart from God, then you're only casing yourself nothing except humiliation)...

I used to live in Egypt more than half of my life and not once I've been convinced with how daily life operates out there,but however anti-wrong-doing actions you take..wouldn't certainly be enough to improve a whole society unless it comes from the law executor(government) 

No offence please (As if it's a shepherd and his responsibility is to make sure his herd live together in harmony)
As half Egyptian, I love Egypt and always will...if only government cares and country's internal issues are being focussed on and addressed!!!!

I believe in (however long it takes to get things right, as along as you're trying hard you will get there eventually... )

Good Day everyone![/QUOTE]
Hi Mario ....maybe now in the uk we may see a differance , maybe a fall in crime levels now there is a new goverment in ....but i doubt it , as everyone of them have promised us better policeing , and our crime rate in the uk has risen . 
They say is has dropped but it hasnt ..and this has been going on for many years and many goverments have been in power 
Enjoy your stay in the uk & keep safe


----------



## DeadGuy

Mario said:


> well, tolerant thoughts towards the local Egyptians rather than the can't-be-asked government...which I do support 100%
> 
> My country is falling apart



Hi there,

I can't quote your first post for some reason........But anyway,

Rules do exist in here, well, if you can call them rules anyway!


"Rules" in here are usually made for a bunch of reasons, but the main reason for most of the rules made is MONEY! How to charge a fine for this and that! Take the traffic rules as an example that you've mentioned, hidden cameras! What's the point of hiding them if they're worried about people's safety?? Or am I getting it wrong by thinking that the point of having those traffic rules and regulations is people's safety??!!!!


It's really annoying when you see a police officer in a road block saying "Hi" to some hot shot that was over speeding and wishing him a safe trip while the driver of the vehicle right behind that hot shot gets nagged about EVERY small detail about his vehicle, just cause he's a taxi driver or cause he's a guy that owns an old car that helps him doing his job! And if there's NOTHING wrong with his car, then there will be something wrong with him! He MUST pay something just to leave the road block and continue doing whatever he was in the middle of!


But the problem is, and as one wise man once said, a rule that doesn't get applied for everyone isn't a rule to be followed!! There's no point if you obey some rule that someone else won't follow for whatever reason! Cause the rule is being broken anyway!


However, it's just pointless to talk about anything, everything in here is "totally fine" and "under control" somehow!! And people in here just gave up, and that's much more worse than having no rules or having rules that's not being followed!

Just enjoy being away from here dude 

Have a nice time!


----------



## Mario

DeadGuy said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I can't quote your first post for some reason........But anyway,
> 
> Rules do exist in here, well, if you can call them rules anyway!
> 
> 
> "Rules" in here are usually made for a bunch of reasons, but the main reason for most of the rules made is MONEY! How to charge a fine for this and that! Take the traffic rules as an example that you've mentioned, hidden cameras! What's the point of hiding them if they're worried about people's safety?? Or am I getting it wrong by thinking that the point of having those traffic rules and regulations is people's safety??!!!!
> 
> 
> It's really annoying when you see a police officer in a road block saying "Hi" to some hot shot that was over speeding and wishing him a safe trip while the driver of the vehicle right behind that hot shot gets nagged about EVERY small detail about his vehicle, just cause he's a taxi driver or cause he's a guy that owns an old car that helps him doing his job! And if there's NOTHING wrong with his car, then there will be something wrong with him! He MUST pay something just to leave the road block and continue doing whatever he was in the middle of!
> 
> 
> But the problem is, and as one wise man once said, a rule that doesn't get applied for everyone isn't a rule to be followed!! There's no point if you obey some rule that someone else won't follow for whatever reason! Cause the rule is being broken anyway!
> 
> 
> However, it's just pointless to talk about anything, everything in here is "totally fine" and "under control" somehow!! And people in here just gave up, and that's much more worse than having no rules or having rules that's not being followed!
> 
> Just enjoy being away from here dude
> 
> Have a nice time!



Hi deadGuy,

Although I doubt that you're dead, as here you are talking to me!)

yes, I agree with your Thread word by word..

Take care mate


----------



## Mario

*well let's see*

Good Day everyone![/QUOTE]
Hi Mario ....maybe now in the uk we may see a differance , maybe a fall in crime levels now there is a new goverment in ....but i doubt it , as everyone of them have promised us better policeing , and our crime rate in the uk has risen . 
They say is has dropped but it hasnt ..and this has been going on for many years and many goverments have been in power 
Enjoy your stay in the uk & keep safe[/QUOTE]

Hi Sofia,

Thanks for your wishes...let's see what this new government is going to achieve for the public general interest!
same warm wishes to you in Egypt as well.

enjoy your stay in the country and good luck in life!

Mario


----------



## MaidenScotland

In the UK and I am using the UK as an example because I am British, we admit we have social problems and we hope that the government in power will do something about it, to me the biggest problem Egypt has is denial ( so who will do the de nile joke).

Maiden.


----------



## Sofia Cooper

Mario said:


> Good Day everyone!


Hi Mario ....maybe now in the uk we may see a differance , maybe a fall in crime levels now there is a new goverment in ....but i doubt it , as everyone of them have promised us better policeing , and our crime rate in the uk has risen . 
They say is has dropped but it hasnt ..and this has been going on for many years and many goverments have been in power 
Enjoy your stay in the uk & keep safe[/QUOTE]

Hi Sofia,

Thanks for your wishes...let's see what this new government is going to achieve for the public general interest!
same warm wishes to you in Egypt as well.

enjoy your stay in the country and good luck in life!

Mario[/QUOTE]I am still experiencing the downfalls of the uk goverment as i havent moved to EG yet ...i also live in a city full of crime that seems to be getting out of control ,,, Birmingham ....


----------



## Mario

MaidenScotland said:


> In the UK and I am using the UK as an example because I am British, we admit we have social problems and we hope that the government in power will do something about it, to me the biggest problem Egypt has is denial ( so who will do the de nile joke).
> 
> Maiden.


Sooner or later they will manage to tackle any kind of issues in the UK or generally in any own-nation-caring country and that is because they are simply trying to improve things! if they fail then some other governmental body will take over and try till they get things right...but as you said and Deadguy did as well... Egyptian nation have given up trying...you know why!

because it's an Egyptian Monarchy, ironically with a president


----------



## Mario

Sofia Cooper said:


> Hi Mario ....maybe now in the uk we may see a differance , maybe a fall in crime levels now there is a new goverment in ....but i doubt it , as everyone of them have promised us better policeing , and our crime rate in the uk has risen .
> They say is has dropped but it hasnt ..and this has been going on for many years and many goverments have been in power
> Enjoy your stay in the uk & keep safe


Hi Sofia,

Thanks for your wishes...let's see what this new government is going to achieve for the public general interest!
same warm wishes to you in Egypt as well.

enjoy your stay in the country and good luck in life!

Mario[/QUOTE]I am still experiencing the downfalls of the uk goverment as i havent moved to EG yet ...i also live in a city full of crime that seems to be getting out of control ,,, Birmingham ....[/QUOTE]

opps! good luck..I guess you need it up there more than in Egypt


----------



## DeadGuy

Mario said:


> Sooner or later they will manage to tackle any kind of issues in the UK or generally in any own-nation-caring country and that is because they are simply trying to improve things! if they fail then some other governmental body will take over and try till they get things right...but as you said and Deadguy did as well... Egyptian nation have given up trying...you know why!
> 
> because it's an Egyptian Monarchy, ironically with a president




Shhhhhhh :lol: Wanna spend the night home man, it's too hot for any "trips" in here, and I got things to do tomorrow morning!


----------



## Mario

DeadGuy said:


> Shhhhhhh :lol: Wanna spend the night home man, it's too hot for any "trips" in here, and I got things to do tomorrow morning!


:clap2:

that what i thought...but then..remember! you'r a dead guy already...so


----------



## DeadGuy

Mario said:


> :clap2:
> 
> that what i thought...but then..remember! you'r a dead guy already...so


Nope, a dead FREE guy.....So far anyway :lol:

You know it doesn't bother me to have one of those "trips" with the free "accommodation" and the "nice hospitality" and so on......But it's just that it won't change a single thing..... So.....

God bless the democracy!


----------



## mardini

Mario, I completely agree with you, I feel though that my post has been missed for the real point intended inside it, I also see the negatives that everyone else see. If I criticize then I can be pardoned because I am not an Egyptian and am not and have not participated in the making of the negative aspects of the society, I also understand when foreigners criticize for the same reason. In my post I intended to point out the silly irony of someone criticizing his own community while he is an active participant in its making. 

Let me introduce the following imaginary dialogue that I hope will illustrate what I mean.

This is a dialogue between me and an Egyptian guy who continuously curse his own country and people.

==============

I am driving slowly approaching a person that I thought I knew by looking at his back..

Me: Guy!! Guy, is that you?

Guy: (lowering a sandwich from his still full mouth) Hey dude!

I turn on the hazard flasher and park next to him, still talking to him from the opened car window

Me: Good to see you buddy, aaah walking by the sea, nice.. romantic I can also say  you must be finally getting peace in your mind.

Guy: Ok

Me: hmm, maybe not…

Me: Hey hub in, let me drive you..

Guy gets in the car, still holding the half eaten sandwich.

Me: where were you headed to?

Guy: going home, I had enough for one day..

Me: ok, we’ll get to that in juuuuust a second, but first, please fasten your seat belt.

Guy: I don’t like to wear it.

Me: hahaha, I know buddy, but you know me, you have to.

Guy: why do you always insist on this, I keep telling you there are no police check points anywhere here.

Me: Oh guy, if it was about a check point, I probably would have not put it on myself.

Guy: yeah yeah, your crap you always say.

Me: have you wondered before about how much money invested in the research and development of this technology? It has been scientifically proven to be a life-saver, need I say more? It is not about the police or the law, it is about my life, and now that you are in “my” car, it is also about your life and my responsibility towards you. Just put it on buddy.. We’ll argue all day and at the end you will put it on anyway. Or….. you know what it is like to catch a taxi here 

Guy: people that I know will laugh at me if they saw me wearing it, you want to make fun of me..

Me: Oh these people will also laugh right after they come back from your funeral.

Guy - as always - gives in and fastens the seat belt

Me: atta a boy, now we can move..

Guy: please change this stupid music

Me: Stupid? Now hold on there Guy, these are the BeeGees, have you got no heart?

Guy: you are old

Me: I am yes… But I liked them as much when I was younger too.

Guy: duh

Guy: you used to wear the tight cloth pants and the tight shirt with long collar then too?

Me: oh yes, and the big heel shoe, grew my hair tall, the whole nine yards.

Few moments of silence go by and I am enjoying the “Don’t throw it all away” 
song… I can see Guy still munching on his sandwich, we get to a red light, and then…………….

Me: Guy???? What the hell did you just do?

Guy: (looking at me in total confusion) what?

Me: you just threw your sandwich left over from the window!

Guy: (still confused) you lost me, what do you mean?

Me: Guy, there is a trash bag hanged right on the arm-rest, right under your elbow, the bag you always mock about!! This is exactly what it is intended for! Man, I can’t believe you did that… I just, I just… amazing, just amazing, in the very instance the song says: Don’t through it all away, I don’t believe you. People around us must be cursing me for that….

Guy: no, you don’t know Egyptian people like I do, I am an Egyptian not you, they are all dirty and stupid, the whole country is “messed” up (I chose a different word than the one Guy used for censorship reasons)..

Me: Guy...... the look on my face now? Is the same dull look you gave me a minute ago, I am totally confused, Egyptians are all stupid and dirty? The whole country is messed up?

Guy: yes, and the government is not doing anything about it, they just want money, they will do anything to take our money

Me: (totally confused now) and this is a different path of discussion, but to start with, what has the government got to do with what you just did?

Guy: they are stupid and dirty, the Egyptian people are all stupid and dirty and the whole country is messed up

Me: ya ahaaa, you said that a minute ago, which led me to ask you a question, and you just answered with the same words that made me ask you? Wha..........

Guy: honk your horn to this stupid driver in front of you, he is not moving

Me: unbelievable! 

Guy: what? You want to stay here all day?

Me: the light “just” turned green, there are a dozen cars ahead of him, do you want me to send a honk by email to all of them??????

Guy: honk to the one in front of you, and he will honk to the one in front of him, then they will move

Me: You think they are having a picnic at the signal light?

Guy: you don’t know Egyptian people, they are all stupid and dirty, and the whole country is messed up

Me: Did you just miss something?

Guy: what?

Me: Government? Want to add something?

Guy: (shaking his head in dissatisfaction) they are dirty and stupid and thieves, they want only to take our money.

Me: you must have been on Wiki lately, you added “thieves” to your vocabulary.

Me: see guy? The traffic moved, can you believe it? And I didn’t have to honk at the driver in front of me, and it only took a couple of minutes.

Guy: you are lucky, it is not like that all the time, believe me, you don’t know the Egyptian people like me.

Me: enough with that crap will ya…. Besides, you are an Egyptian for god’s sake!!!

Guy: I wish I wasn’t, and you know? Lots of people tell me that I talk as if wasn't an Egyptian, and I feel flattered about that..

Me: and that makes you non-Egyptian? Because you just wished you were not Egyptian, you are now Finnish? And Finland would want you? 

Guy: you hurt me.. that cuts

Me: Ok Barzini! ok, let me.. let me take a second to try to figure you out

Me: I mean…… you are even unaware of what you just did! And you are cursing Egyptians, and you are an Egyptian! Are we connecting here?

Guy: I am not like all the Egyptians, you don’t know Egyptians like I do, they are ……….

Me: Oh lord.

Guy: hey, where are you going, you just missed my building.

I signal to the right, and park.

Guy: what are you going to do next Thursday?

Me: not sure yet, too early in the week, it is Sunday still.

Guy: I will call you, we can go out.

Me: I am going back to Cairo tomorrow, so we’ll see.

Guy: ok… if you are coming here again this week call me.

Me: will do..

Guy: bye..

Me: bye now.
.
.
.
.
.
.
. 
Me: what a dork!

Guy from far: I heard thaaaaaat…….

=======================================

This is the mentality I am referring to in my post. The Government is not all to blame, there is not enough policemen to police. The Government is definitely to blame for many things, but personal hygiene? What can the government do about it? When people throw trash to the streets, it is because this is how they are at home, what can the Government do about that?

I say again: one criticizing is not helping.

P.S.: The characters (except for me) and events in the dialogue above are fictional. Any relevance to actual people and events is coincidental.


----------



## Jole

Yes, we all have a choice, but how free our we to exercise these choices? 

When I visited Egypt, on a couple of occasions I saw grown men urinate in the streets, I saw people dangling dangerously out of bus doors holding on by the skin of their teeth and yes, I saw people throw trash on the road.

Here in Finland there are trash cans everywhere, there are clean public lavatories in town centres and reliable public transport where you seldom need to stand up .. so it's a lot easier for me to act ''responsibly'' than the average Egyptian.


----------



## mardini

Jole said:


> Yes, we all have a choice, but how free our we to exercise these choices?
> 
> When I visited Egypt, on a couple of occasions I saw grown men urinate in the streets, I saw people dangling dangerously out of bus doors holding on by the skin of their teeth and yes, I saw people throw trash on the road.
> 
> Here in Finland there are trash cans everywhere, there are clean public lavatories in town centres and reliable public transport where you seldom need to stand up .. so it's a lot easier for me to act ''responsibly'' than the average Egyptian.


My believe is that we are free to exercise our choices so long we don't invade some one else right, and as long we are not in conflict with the established laws and approved social practices.

The comparison between Finland and Egypt is not fair for either party. The size of the two countries, the mass and distribution of population, the distribution of national income, and the level of institutional corruption vary greatly. Therefore, for Egyptians they have an existing problem, it is a fact, it is a living fact. Identifying the problem is the first step to recovery they say, and the problem was identified a very long time ago, at least two generations ago. How did this help Egyptians heal?

Again, the Egyptians now find themselves in the midst of the problem, they are not anticipating it, it is not about to happen.. It is a living fact. They say in one voice: The problem in Egypt is the Government. So be it. I won't argue that, they know better.

I can understand and feel for the less fortunate who have to take the poor transportation means every day to get by, and sincerely feel sorry for them, I wish they were provided something better. I can understand and feel for all those who can't afford to buy a small place to live in, and still suffer from monthly leases, I can of course understand the frustration and pain they feel as their monthly salary goes south the first week of the month and may be sooner. Of course, there are a lot of poor people and definitely the Government is to blame. I am an economist and I can comfortably say that Egypt has the strongest economy in the middle east, but the poor distribution of wealth is due to government corruption no doubt, as with all other Arab countries including the gulf nanny oil states, institutional corruption is present.

I understand all that, I speak to many Egyptians and they tell me and I understand.

But,

What I don't understand is the following:

1- Trashing where they live, this has nothing to do with the government. During the Iraqi occupation to Kuwait, we used to burn the trash and never left it to pile up, we were under military occupation, there was no government present, no rules or regulations, nothing, day to day living or dying, but we preserved our hygienic standards.

2- Not abiding by the laws on the basis that no one else does, this is the weirdest thing, one of the people who contributed to this post quoted who he said a "wise man": the law that is not applied to every one is not a law to be followed, or something to this effect. Here is my take: 

a. I read of so many murders happen every day in Egypt, then, no law applied here obviously since other people are committing murder continuously, so I am better off carrying a gun and start shooting people. 

b. I read of so many rape crimes happening, so I go on and start invading females, since lots of people are doing it, then I do it too...

c. I read and hear about the many many theft operations going on in Egypt, so I raid a bank.

d. Everyone accept bribes so I do too.

e. I witness the crazy drivers on the streets, so I remove the rear and side mirrors and drive in a haphazard fashion. 

It doesn't work that way, two wrongs don't make one right. When Egyptians say: Our problem is the government, the implicit indication is: we are simply lazy. We don't want to work, we don't want to clean. Their top parliament representative said that, and I agree with him.

As I said, there are not enough policemen to police, the people should grow awareness, it is on TV if they can't find it in the books. 

Did you visit the Pyramids area? Did you deal with the rudest people on earth? Those who attempt very aggressively to rip you off? Is that because of the government or simply greed?

Pointing to the problem is the easy part, taking action to correct is the hard part. Cursing the government and other Egyptians help no one in their society. Every Egyptian should start by him/herself and start to influence the closer circle and gradually expand.

Surprisingly, they all curse the dirty streets right after they throw their trash bags on that street. Some will argue; the government did not provide trash bins, OK, gather the trash and burn it, don't leave it to the stray dogs and cats to spread it around.

Governments alone won't make the big difference, let alone the government here. It is for the people to deal with their existing problem rather than continue to point fingers at it.


----------



## MaidenScotland

I must admit one of my biggest shocks here was the" it's not my job " culture with those in employment, now is this laziness? or it is a" union" culture? or is a" class" personally I go for the laziness. The is not my job culture person throws trash on the ground with the view of it's not my job to clear it upsnip, the class person thinks they are too good to be carrying their trash home and there are people beneath them to clean up their mess and of course the lazy person doesn't give a hoot what their surroundings are like.
I shop at a local corner shop for everyday supplies, bread, milk and have done so for years so the proprietor knows who I am and one day he said to me..."Madame why do you always say please when you ask for something and then thank you when I give you your shopping and change?"
I explained that I was brought up and indeed it was taught in school that it is mannerly to say please and thank you, his response to me was "but why would you say please and thank you for a service that you have paid for?" Says it all really.

Maiden


----------



## Sofia Cooper

MaidenScotland said:


> I must admit one of my biggest shocks here was the" it's not my job " culture with those in employment, now is this laziness? or it is a" union" culture? or is a" class" personally I go for the laziness. The is not my job culture person throws trash on the ground with the view of it's not my job to clear it upsnip, the class person thinks they are too good to be carrying their trash home and there are people beneath them to clean up their mess and of course the lazy person doesn't give a hoot what their surroundings are like.
> I shop at a local corner shop for everyday supplies, bread, milk and have done so for years so the proprietor knows who I am and one day he said to me..."Madame why do you always say please when you ask for something and then thank you when I give you your shopping and change?"
> I explained that I was brought up and indeed it was taught in school that it is mannerly to say please and thank you, his response to me was "but why would you say please and thank you for a service that you have paid for?" Says it all really.
> 
> Maiden


MaidenScotland ... yes we seem to say yes "please and thankyou" for no reason in the uk lol ......i have been told this so many times myslef ...its a habit .....but moreso we are known back in the uk as polite people ,, and another thing when i was in Egypt they commented on me apologising ? ....for no reason , i didnt even know i was saying it , as its habit lol


----------



## Beatle

Sofia Cooper said:


> MaidenScotland ... yes we seem to say yes "please and thankyou" for no reason in the uk lol ......i have been told this so many times myslef ...its a habit .....but moreso we are known back in the uk as polite people ,, and another thing when i was in Egypt they commented on me apologising ? ....for no reason , i didnt even know i was saying it , as its habit lol


I think it is a very British habit as quite a few of my friends from other European countries comment on how the British say please and thank you and apologise so frequently


----------



## Sofia Cooper

Beatle said:


> I think it is a very British habit as quite a few of my friends from other European countries comment on how the British say please and thank you and apologise so frequently


i had it in Egypt and when i lived in Germany , i was used to saying thankyou and yes please ,
In Germany and i was out with my German friends they made a bet on who could guess the closest to to how many times i said these words lol .....i say it without realsiing it ,


----------



## Mario

*after all, you've been using the wrong forum to point out concerns!*



mardini said:


> My believe is that we are free to exercise our choices so long we don't invade some one else right, and as long we are not in conflict with the established laws and approved social practices.
> 
> The comparison between Finland and Egypt is not fair for either party. The size of the two countries, the mass and distribution of population, the distribution of national income, and the level of institutional corruption vary greatly. Therefore, for Egyptians they have an existing problem, it is a fact, it is a living fact. Identifying the problem is the first step to recovery they say, and the problem was identified a very long time ago, at least two generations ago. How did this help Egyptians heal?
> 
> Again, the Egyptians now find themselves in the midst of the problem, they are not anticipating it, it is not about to happen.. It is a living fact. They say in one voice: The problem in Egypt is the Government. So be it. I won't argue that, they know better.
> 
> I can understand and feel for the less fortunate who have to take the poor transportation means every day to get by, and sincerely feel sorry for them, I wish they were provided something better. I can understand and feel for all those who can't afford to buy a small place to live in, and still suffer from monthly leases, I can of course understand the frustration and pain they feel as their monthly salary goes south the first week of the month and may be sooner. Of course, there are a lot of poor people and definitely the Government is to blame. I am an economist and I can comfortably say that Egypt has the strongest economy in the middle east, but the poor distribution of wealth is due to government corruption no doubt, as with all other Arab countries including the gulf nanny oil states, institutional corruption is present.
> 
> I understand all that, I speak to many Egyptians and they tell me and I understand.
> 
> But,
> 
> What I don't understand is the following:
> 
> 1- Trashing where they live, this has nothing to do with the government. During the Iraqi occupation to Kuwait, we used to burn the trash and never left it to pile up, we were under military occupation, there was no government present, no rules or regulations, nothing, day to day living or dying, but we preserved our hygienic standards.
> 
> 2- Not abiding by the laws on the basis that no one else does, this is the weirdest thing, one of the people who contributed to this post quoted who he said a "wise man": the law that is not applied to every one is not a law to be followed, or something to this effect. Here is my take:
> 
> a. I read of so many murders happen every day in Egypt, then, no law applied here obviously since other people are committing murder continuously, so I am better off carrying a gun and start shooting people.
> 
> b. I read of so many rape crimes happening, so I go on and start invading females, since lots of people are doing it, then I do it too...
> 
> c. I read and hear about the many many theft operations going on in Egypt, so I raid a bank.
> 
> d. Everyone accept bribes so I do too.
> 
> e. I witness the crazy drivers on the streets, so I remove the rear and side mirrors and drive in a haphazard fashion.
> 
> It doesn't work that way, two wrongs don't make one right. When Egyptians say: Our problem is the government, the implicit indication is: we are simply lazy. We don't want to work, we don't want to clean. Their top parliament representative said that, and I agree with him.
> 
> As I said, there are not enough policemen to police, the people should grow awareness, it is on TV if they can't find it in the books.
> 
> Did you visit the Pyramids area? Did you deal with the rudest people on earth? Those who attempt very aggressively to rip you off? Is that because of the government or simply greed?
> 
> Pointing to the problem is the easy part, taking action to correct is the hard part. Cursing the government and other Egyptians help no one in their society. Every Egyptian should start by him/herself and start to influence the closer circle and gradually expand.
> 
> Surprisingly, they all curse the dirty streets right after they throw their trash bags on that street. Some will argue; the government did not provide trash bins, OK, gather the trash and burn it, don't leave it to the stray dogs and cats to spread it around.
> 
> Governments alone won't make the big difference, let alone the government here. It is for the people to deal with their existing problem rather than continue to point fingers at it.


:clap2:

mardini! 

(with what you have mentioned above) let's assume your good intentions of trying to educate the Egyptians and make them aware of the on-going daily joke they have been living in,so that they will be able to reform their own country!


Don't you think by any chance that this has been the wrong forum to deliver the message across to the Egyptians?(as far as I know it's called expatiates in Egypt)

Secondly, let's start with ourselves first... proudly to say...during the 20 years I have lived in Egypt I have never thrown any rubbish on the floor! And that's not because I have learned that in any other country! simply, it's because my family were bothered to teach me so!
So, if you see me for example cursing others, particularly Egyptians for preforming uncivilised action,e.g throwing litter on the floor or the way how they drive...
You would then accuse me with the above...(Egyptians curse one another and they even do it themselves!) I would say never ASSUME!

I agree with you for the second time about the pyramids bit and that the rudest people on earth have actually gathered there! but then forgive me if I am mistaken...but in Syria the same rudest bunch are there! don't know whether they are all related to one another or just a coincident! 


Laziness
Finally, yes I raise my hand for that...I have encountered so many who said "it's not my job", but they seemed that they have managed to get away with it with their boss..so what should we expect then???

Allow me to use the UK as a similar example...and that's because this is where I have been living and working in! Believe it or not..on many occasions. I've heard the same phrase over here as well...but the only vital difference is that unlike Egypt, some might lose their jobs over this negative attitude

After all....yes if I have been a responsible citizen who refused to live the animals life by throwing litter and driving manically like so many others, and, and, and .....you name it!

Then *YES* I have to blame the law executors......

Good day all!


----------



## Sofia Cooper

Mario said:


> :clap2:
> 
> mardini!
> 
> (with what you have mentioned above) let's assume your good intentions of trying to educate the Egyptians and make them aware of the on-going daily joke they have been living in,so that they will be able to reform their own country!
> 
> 
> Don't you think by any chance that this has been the wrong forum to deliver the message across to the Egyptians?(as far as I know it's called expatiates in Egypt)
> 
> Secondly, let's start with ourselves first... proudly to say...during the 20 years I have lived in Egypt I have never thrown any rubbish on the floor! And that's not because I have learned that in any other country! simply, it's because my family were bothered to teach me so!
> So, if you see me for example cursing others, particularly Egyptians for preforming uncivilised action,e.g throwing litter on the floor or the way how they drive...
> You would then accuse me with the above...(Egyptians curse one another and they even do it themselves!) I would say never ASSUME!
> 
> I agree with you for the second time about the pyramids bit and that the rudest people on earth have actually gathered there! but then forgive me if I am mistaken...but in Syria the same rudest bunch are there! don't know whether they are all related to one another or just a coincident!
> 
> 
> Laziness
> Finally, yes I raise my hand for that...I have encountered so many who said "it's not my job", but they seemed that they have managed to get away with it with their boss..so what should we expect then???
> 
> Allow me to use the UK as a similar example...and that's because this is where I have been living and working in! Believe it or not..on many occasions. I've heard the same phrase over here as well...but the only vital difference is that unlike Egypt, some might lose their jobs over this negative attitude
> 
> After all....yes if I have been a responsible citizen who refused to live the animals life by throwing litter and driving manically like so many others, and, and, and .....you name it!
> 
> Then *YES* I have to blame the law executors......
> 
> Good day all!


The problem in the uk is we do have laziness, people not wanting to work because they are using the taxpayers money to live , yes us who work hard and pay very high taxes are the ones whoe end up paying ...
We do blame our goverment, for putting our taxes up ,,,when single mother can live in a 4 bedroomed house in lets say a nice area , she may have 8 kids ....and a nice car ......she can live comfortable while those who work struggle , 
I dont blame the woman as its easy for her to do ....i blame the goverment for giving funds so easliy ..
She kwows like so many , she will be ok because the taxpayer will pay ..us who work 12 hours shifts and and sometimes 2 jobs to makes ends meet .. 
So like Egypt in alot of ways the goverment is to blame


----------



## Mario

Sofia Cooper said:


> The problem in the uk is we do have laziness, people not wanting to work because they are using the taxpayers money to live , yes us who work hard and pay very high taxes are the ones whoe end up paying ...
> We do blame our goverment, for putting our taxes up ,,,when single mother can live in a 4 bedroomed house in lets say a nice area , she may have 8 kids ....and a nice car ......she can live comfortable while those who work struggle ,
> I dont blame the woman as its easy for her to do ....i blame the goverment for giving funds so easliy ..
> She kwows like so many , she will be ok because the taxpayer will pay ..us who work 12 hours shifts and and sometimes 2 jobs to makes ends meet ..
> So like Egypt in alot of ways the goverment is to blame



Sofia,

I know exactly what you are talking about!!


----------



## DeadGuy

Sofia Cooper said:


> The problem in the uk is we do have laziness, people not wanting to work because they are using the taxpayers money to live , yes us who work hard and pay very high taxes are the ones whoe end up paying ...
> We do blame our goverment, for putting our taxes up ,,,when single mother can live in a 4 bedroomed house in lets say a nice area , she may have 8 kids ....and a nice car ......she can live comfortable while those who work struggle ,
> I dont blame the woman as its easy for her to do ....i blame the goverment for giving funds so easliy ..
> She kwows like so many , she will be ok because the taxpayer will pay ..us who work 12 hours shifts and and sometimes 2 jobs to makes ends meet ..
> So like Egypt in alot of ways the goverment is to blame



People still HAVE to pay a tax in here as well........Just like in the UK!

But unlike UK, there are no "women" who get any of the "taxpayers" money! Unless someone was working on getting a better image for himself/herself, then decides to "give" some of the taxpayers' money as if it was his/her own money!!! And guess what those "women" get??? A lovely useful 150 EGP.!!! WoW! That's A LOT!

But of course.......That's not anyone's fault LOL!!!


----------



## Mario

*miracal!*



DeadGuy said:


> People still HAVE to pay a tax in here as well........Just like in the UK!
> 
> But unlike UK, there are no "women" who get any of the "taxpayers" money! Unless someone was working on getting a better image for himself/herself, then decides to "give" some of the taxpayers' money as if it was his/her own money!!! And guess what those "women" get??? A lovely useful 150 EGP.!!! WoW! That's A LOT!
> 
> But of course.......That's not anyone's fault LOL!!!




DeadGuy...did you manage to spend last night at home after all?without any unpleasant trips anywhere??

good to hear that you're still about


----------



## DeadGuy

Mario said:


> DeadGuy...did you manage to spend last night at home after all?without any unpleasant trips anywhere??
> 
> good to hear that you're still about


No no, not those "trips", not yet anyway, just the one that I was planning for 

Just stay away from the "untouchables" and everything will be "ok" :lol:


----------



## Sofia Cooper

DeadGuy said:


> People still HAVE to pay a tax in here as well........Just like in the UK!
> 
> But unlike UK, there are no "women" who get any of the "taxpayers" money! Unless someone was working on getting a better image for himself/herself, then decides to "give" some of the taxpayers' money as if it was his/her own money!!! And guess what those "women" get??? A lovely useful 150 EGP.!!! WoW! That's A LOT!
> 
> But of course.......That's not anyone's fault LOL!!!


Well in the uk woman have many children without a husband or partner to support her or the children ,,,,we have a serious problem with one parent families and it cost the taxpayers alot of money .....the goverment try and educate about pregnancies but they still havnt got the message across, thus alot of one parent familes needing support thru benifits ... and yes of course Egypt have taxes like everywhere ,, but we have high taxes ...extremely high ...the cost of living in the uk is frightening


----------



## DeadGuy

Sofia Cooper said:


> Well in the uk woman have many children without a husband or partner to support her or the children ,,,,we have a serious problem with one parent families and it cost the taxpayers alot of money .....the goverment try and educate about pregnancies but they still havnt got the message across, thus alot of one parent familes needing support thru benifits ... and yes of course Egypt have taxes like everywhere ,, but we have high taxes ...extremely high ...the cost of living in the uk is frightening


I know what you're talking about, and my post was about that, it's the same in UK and in here, those needing "women" do exist in both countries, and the taxpayers do exist in both countries, but in UK, someone's bothered and trying to educate about something! But in here?! It's not even their money but they act like they're doing those women a BIG favor by giving them some of it!!!! Actually I got it wrong, they don't just "give" it, those women have to FIGHT for it!!!! And it's a really HUGE sum of money as well!! A 150 EGP per month!!!! What a joke!


----------



## Sofia Cooper

DeadGuy said:


> I know what you're talking about, and my post was about that, it's the same in UK and in here, those needing "women" do exist in both countries, and the taxpayers do exist in both countries, but in UK, someone's bothered and trying to educate about something! But in here?! It's not even their money but they act like they're doing those women a BIG favor by giving them some of it!!!! Actually I got it wrong, they don't just "give" it, those women have to FIGHT for it!!!! And it's a really HUGE sum of money as well!! A 150 EGP per month!!!! What a joke!


What a differance .....what a shame for the woman there .....and having to fight for it ......here girls as young as 16 getting pregnant by their boyfriends, and end up living at home ...still entitiled to some benifits ...then they get their own flat , they cant go to work as their boyfriend has done a runner ...then we who work foot the bill .
Alot of single mums here are young ...and its society of today.....they come from broken homes , parents divorced , and mother trying to work to bring in extra money ......so the teenagers a doing whatever they want and thus teenage pregnancies are high , and it goes on and on 
All this costing the goverment money.... and as you know taxes go to the goverment . so no wonder the likes of the uk is in bad way and has been for years


----------



## DeadGuy

Sofia Cooper said:


> What a differance .....what a shame for the woman there .....and having to fight for it ......here girls as young as 16 getting pregnant by their boyfriends, and end up living at home ...still entitiled to some benifits ...then they get their own flat , they cant go to work as their boyfriend has done a runner ...then we who work foot the bill .
> Alot of single mums here are young ...and its society of today.....they come from broken homes , parents divorced , and mother trying to work to bring in extra money ......so the teenagers a doing whatever they want and thus teenage pregnancies are high , and it goes on and on
> All this costing the goverment money.... and as you know taxes go to the goverment . so no wonder the likes of the uk is in bad way and has been for years



A pregnant unmarried teen in here would probably get shot if not in Cairo or in Alex, not get help.......

The kinda "women" that need help in here are mainly widows, unlucky wives of junkies, wives of a hard working man that had an accident and can't do his job anymore etc. And they're only fighting for money to buy food and meds! Essential basics, Not for an apartment or a car!

May be the new UK government should consider sending those teens to Egypt to spend some time, I'm sure that will be an effective way for educating them about how "Dangerous" it is to be a pregnant unmarried teen :lol:


----------



## Sofia Cooper

DeadGuy said:


> A pregnant unmarried teen in here would probably get shot if not in Cairo or in Alex, not get help.......
> 
> The kinda "women" that need help in here are mainly widows, unlucky wives of junkies, wives of a hard working man that had an accident and can't do his job anymore etc. And they're only fighting for money to buy food and meds! Essential basics, Not for an apartment or a car!
> 
> May be the new UK government should consider sending those teens to Egypt to spend some time, I'm sure that will be an effective way for educating them about how "Dangerous" it is to be a pregnant unmarried teen :lol:


Yes what a dfiferance in teens here than there ..i think the western world have so much to answer for ....and alot of media is to blame ....girls growing up to fast ...wanting to look 18 ...etc ...dressed up like ..i wont say it ....many times on morning tv ..chat shows on young girls wanting to be mothers ...
What a shame woman have to fight to survive in Egypt ....like you say essential basics ....things that people take for granted .. the younsters of today in the western world dont know what its like to have to fight for bascis ....their to worried about what phone they are going to get... and all expecting .......and some with their hand open wating for their next goverment handout ... and i am paying for alot of this ...and its not just the single mothers ...its those who just bum off the goverment because they know they can .......but again i blame the goverment for not having a tighter control 
And the new goverment wont make an ounce of differance ....they are all the same ....and have been over the years .....people are fed up with the same all talk .....this new goverment wont make an ounce of differance


----------



## DeadGuy

Sofia Cooper said:


> Yes what a dfiferance in teens here than there ..i think the western world have so much to answer for ....and alot of media is to blame ....girls growing up to fast ...wanting to look 18 ...etc ...dressed up like ..i wont say it ....many times on morning tv ..chat shows on young girls wanting to be mothers ...
> What a shame woman have to fight to survive in Egypt ....like you say essential basics ....things that people take for granted .. the younsters of today in the western world dont know what its like to have to fight for bascis ....their to worried about what phone they are going to get... and all expecting .......and some with their hand open wating for their next goverment handout ... and i am paying for alot of this ...and its not just the single mothers ...its those who just bum off the goverment because they know they can .......but again i blame the goverment for not having a tighter control
> And the new goverment wont make an ounce of differance ....they are all the same ....and have been over the years .....people are fed up with the same all talk .....this new goverment wont make an ounce of differance



Teen girls in here are almost the same as in there, but in here, they know how serious it is to be an unmarried pregnant one, so they manage to control that :lol:

And the new government thing..........Let's just hope they do something..........

Good luck!


----------



## mardini

Mario said:


> :clap2:
> 
> mardini!
> 
> (with what you have mentioned above) let's assume your good intentions of trying to educate the Egyptians and make them aware of the on-going daily joke they have been living in,so that they will be able to reform their own country!
> 
> 
> Don't you think by any chance that this has been the wrong forum to deliver the message across to the Egyptians?(as far as I know it's called expatiates in Egypt)
> 
> Secondly, let's start with ourselves first... proudly to say...during the 20 years I have lived in Egypt I have never thrown any rubbish on the floor! And that's not because I have learned that in any other country! simply, it's because my family were bothered to teach me so!
> So, if you see me for example cursing others, particularly Egyptians for preforming uncivilised action,e.g throwing litter on the floor or the way how they drive...
> You would then accuse me with the above...(Egyptians curse one another and they even do it themselves!) I would say never ASSUME!
> 
> I agree with you for the second time about the pyramids bit and that the rudest people on earth have actually gathered there! but then forgive me if I am mistaken...but in Syria the same rudest bunch are there! don't know whether they are all related to one another or just a coincident!
> 
> 
> Laziness
> Finally, yes I raise my hand for that...I have encountered so many who said "it's not my job", but they seemed that they have managed to get away with it with their boss..so what should we expect then???
> 
> Allow me to use the UK as a similar example...and that's because this is where I have been living and working in! Believe it or not..on many occasions. I've heard the same phrase over here as well...but the only vital difference is that unlike Egypt, some might lose their jobs over this negative attitude
> 
> After all....yes if I have been a responsible citizen who refused to live the animals life by throwing litter and driving manically like so many others, and, and, and .....you name it!
> 
> Then *YES* I have to blame the law executors......
> 
> Good day all!


Mario, I never generalize, if you don't fit the description, it wasn't meant for you. I can assure you there are rude people in Syria and around the world, no exception.

Also, the post is in the right place, I am not giving advises to the Egyptian population in general, I am responding and discussing an issue of one in specific with other expats.


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## Sofia Cooper

DeadGuy said:


> Teen girls in here are almost the same as in there, but in here, they know how serious it is to be an unmarried pregnant one, so they manage to control that :lol:
> 
> And the new government thing..........Let's just hope they do something..........
> 
> Good luck!


 Yes we know how lol ....and the gov wont make a differnance ....ever :spit:


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