# The Curse of the Roma!



## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

The Roma/Romani people in Spain are generally known as Gitanos. 

Estimates of the Spanish Gitano population fluctuate between 600,000 and 1,500,000, with the Spanish government estimating a number between 650,000 and 700,000.

And a large percentage of these are spread across Andalucia!

I don't think it's any secret how the Spanish feel...... but what's your view of these people?

Lost souls doomed to walk the earth looking for a home? Or dirty, filthy, thieving gippos?

I'd be interested in your opinions....._or_ what you may have heard.

The floor is yours!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I don't know one single gypsy. 
The only thing I know about them is that they are held in very low regard by the Spanish.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Why dont the spanish like them??

Jo xx


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

XTreme said:


> The Roma/Romani people in Spain are generally known as Gitanos.
> 
> Estimates of the Spanish Gitano population fluctuate between 600,000 and 1,500,000, with the Spanish government estimating a number between 650,000 and 700,000.
> 
> ...




Pili was a little girl in my daughter's class at school. She was from a gitano family here. The family was well known and shunned. Looked upon as filthy creatures and shunned by ignorant idiots. Pili had the same treatment at school. She was continuously bullied by the other children, but there was a small group who cared for her. My daughter was one of them. I have never been more proud of my children knowing that whatever people they come across, whatever walk of life and family they are born into, they have always seen them exactly as what they are - children just like them. My daughter took her under her wing. Whenever there was a trend at school - be it collecting stickers or those silly little mini animals that you buy in the kioskos, she made sure that Pili was never left out. She took in goodies at play time for her. She sewed little pieces of cloth into beds for their toys and decorated cards for her. Pili became a true friend. My daughter never cared about what the others said about her. She stuck up for her when she was picked on. The teacher often commented how wonderful it was that Pili was shown such kindness. Call it Christian values, a sense of decency, whatever. But Pili deserved everything that everyone else had.

She died suddenly last year. She was morbidly obese and had health problems. We received a phone call during the summer holidays from the head master. As a family we went to the funeral. The gitano families turned out in full force. Not dressed as one would expect to a typical funeral. They came in what they had and what you would see them dressed in at any other time. We sat on one side and marvelled at the fact that although those other school families at the time professed sadness - only two other mothers turned up. 

Pili's coffin was carried into the church. The children of the gitanos raced around the pews and the mother screamed and cried throughout. The other school mothers sat there and tutted. As if there is a certain way to behave when a child is lost. As a family we cried along with them and held our three close. The teachers and the headmaster cried as well. A life was lost - a young life - and that was all that mattered.

The next day I went to the garden with our three children and we planted a tree for Pili. They each read out something they had written - memories, giving thanks and a small prayer and stood around in silence afterwards. And we cried again.

We've just passed the anniversary of her death. On the school runs, I still saw her mother at the bus stop with her remaining children and yet another baby in arms. Not dressed in funereal black anymore. She's back in her garish colours again and the children are moving on slowly. At the end of term, when they had their end of year party - they all had a moment of silence to remember.

We don't ask to be born into the families we end up with. It's the luck of the draw. It could have been anyone of our's. I've been in this world long enough to know that race, colour, class doesn't mean a thing and there's plenty of good and bad to be found everywhere. So far as we're concerned, it's the individual that counts and not the rest that so many small minded people pay heed to.

RIP Pili. Thank you for being my daughter's friend. She misses you still.

Tally.xxx


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Very sad story Tally.....and I have to say that that was the first positive post to the Roma that I've ever seen on an Expat Forum.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't know one single gypsy.
> The only thing I know about them is that they are held in very low regard by the Spanish.


There are huge Gypsy settlements in that area so I'm surprised, given your many years in Spain, that you don't know any.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

XTreme said:


> There are huge Gypsy settlements in that area so I'm surprised, given your many years in Spain, that you don't know any.


As I say, I don't know any, I know OF them
My daughter probably does from school, but we don't hear anything from her about them either way.
There aren't any settlements in our area
La Cañada in some area in Madrid is the famous one


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> As I say, I don't know any, I know OF them


You probably do PW.....but you don't know it. There is a lot of them "in the closet" so to speak.


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

XTreme said:


> There are huge Gypsy settlements in that area so I'm surprised, given your many years in Spain, that you don't know any.


Gitanos have given Spain a huge amount, not the least of which is their music and massive entertainment facilities at all the fiestas I've been in. They do have a dodgy rep., and that's not helped by the young guys who are clearly fighting for an identity but all the cranially challenged can see is gangs of puerto rican look alikes from the film West Side Story. I see a massive family bond where all help all and to be truthfull, all for one and one for all applies to them more than any other group I've come accross in life.

One question though. Why's everyone appearing to be pointing the finguer at how much the Spanish don't like them? 

I've been here and there, the UK also (big time, they even make films that take the mick!), aren't you being a little hard on the individualising of Spain as a "don't like gypsies" country?

Tallulah, dry your tears nena. Those who weren't there don't count for much anyway.

Xose


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Xose said:


> aren't you being a little hard on the individualising of Spain as a "don't like gypsies" country?


Well we're talking about Spain rather than any other country.....the reality is no country particularly wants them at all.

Wherever they are they're always seen as the enemy within.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

XTreme said:


> You probably do PW.....but you don't know it. There is a lot of them "in the closet" so to speak.


Perhaps you don't understand me.
I don't know any gypsies. I mean I can identify a few people who I pass regularly in the street and who live in my area as being gypsies, but I don't know them to speak to. I have never had a conversation with these people who I know to be a member of this group. This is not for any reason. It's the same as I know that Mrs. Elorriaga is from the Basque country, but I don't know her to speak to.
There are no gypsy settlements in the areas surrounding my town.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Xose said:


> Gitanos have given Spain a huge amount, not the least of which is their music and massive entertainment facilities at all the fiestas I've been in. They do have a dodgy rep., and that's not helped by the young guys who are clearly fighting for an identity but all the cranially challenged can see is gangs of puerto rican look alikes from the film West Side Story. I see a massive family bond where all help all and to be truthfull, all for one and one for all applies to them more than any other group I've come accross in life.
> 
> One question though. Why's everyone appearing to be pointing the finguer at how much the Spanish don't like them?
> 
> ...



I do so wish you didnt flip so easily sometimes Xose, generalisations are a verbal symbolisation and simplification of known quanities, dont you think

Jo xxx


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

jojo said:


> I do so wish you didnt flip so easily sometimes Xose, generalisations are a verbal symbolisation and simplification of known quanities, dont you think
> 
> Jo xxx


I think we've done this one Jo, as I said then, I'm totally coolio. Believe me.

I was simply interested in the irony, that's all 

Xose


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Xose said:


> I think we've done this one Jo, as I said then, I'm totally coolio. Believe me.
> 
> I was simply interested in the irony, that's all
> 
> Xose


I'll let you off Xose, cos you're lovely really, Tally told me!!!!!!!!


Jo xxx


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Perhaps you don't understand me.
> I don't know any gypsies. I mean I can identify a few people who I pass regularly in the street and who live in my area as being gypsies, but I don't know them to speak to. I have never had a conversation with these people who I know to be a member of this group. This is not for any reason. It's the same as I know that Mrs. Elorriaga is from the Basque country, but I don't know her to speak to.
> There are no gypsy settlements in the areas surrounding my town.


I do get what you're saying PW....but what I'm trying to explain is not all gypsies live in settlements. Not all gypsies are dark and swarthy. Not all gypsies are living in poverty.

There are many who have crossed over into the mainstream (through moving into the cities), and have decent jobs etc. Essentially, the truth that they are in fact Gypsies, is a closely guarded secret.

I know Gypsies who work the bars in Mallorca every Summer.....because they're light enough skinned to get away with passing as Spanish. And that happens everywhere.....except in their home areas where they're known to be Roma.

So what I'm saying is people you know or do business with, could in fact be Gypsies. And you'd never know.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

XTreme said:


> So what I'm saying is people you know or do business with, could in fact be Gypsies. And you'd never know.


Then what does it matter??

jo xx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

XTreme said:


> I do get what you're saying PW....but what I'm trying to explain is not all gypsies live in settlements. Not all gypsies are dark and swarthy. Not all gypsies are living in poverty.
> 
> There are many who have crossed over into the mainstream (through moving into the cities), and have decent jobs etc. Essentially, the truth that they are in fact Gypsies, is a closely guarded secret.
> 
> ...


I know that, believe me I know that.
One of my best friends is Algerian, and guess what, he's not a terrorist


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## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

jojo said:


> I'll let you off Xose, cos you're lovely really, Tally told me!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


She's a VERY perceptive lady. The Matrix doesn't daunt her at all, apparantly

Xose


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

No input from Steve on this?

Where is the old fogey.....not overdone it with that ****ter malarkey has he?


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

No real experience in Spain to be honest. I'd treat them one by one - I am sure there are good and bad and they themselves would admit it.


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## Hurricane (Aug 12, 2007)

Pete you know what I think of the Roma mate, I had a very close friend who was one and she was one of the finest people I have ever known, yet she had lived through more horror in her life than you would wish on your worse enemy!


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## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

Race, colour or creed doesn't matter to me, if they're a decent person then they're welcome......... if they're a git then they can **** off.






Doggy


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

I have not much experience with meeting Gypsies. The only real memory I have was sadly a negative one:

I was about 10 years old. As some of you might remember I'm german. There are of course Roma families in Germany just like in other countries. They are not as prominent though. That partly has to do with the way the local governments treat settlements and the rules they apply, like very confined and restricted areas etc.

So back to little Seb's negative experience. At this time I was home alone all day during school holidays - both my parents were working. For some weeks/months (dont nail me on the exact time) we had a Roma settlement nearby. The Problem was they were going around in groups, ringing the door bells and begging for money. So now it was our turn. A group of two women and 3 or 4 children were ringing. As a good behaved child I wasnt allowed to open the door, but they must have seen me at the window. So they kept ringing, knocking, throwing stones against the windows, rattling at the mailbox. That went on for twenty minutes until I was so terrified that I phoned my parents who called the police. Five minutes later they arrived and my besiegers fled. It's still stuck in my head even after all those years.

I do know these were individiuals and I would never blame a whole race or class or come to that family for the shortcommings of a few. That's something you especially learn being german (weird but understandable  ).

So now to the point. Since then I had no contact what so ever with gypsies, bar seeing some families from a distance in the UK. I havent met any in spain yet either - so I have no opinion about Roma in general or their lifestyle (the obvious ones not the "in the closet" ones) - not in spain or in any other country. Plus I prefer to form my own opinion on individuals - I'm not a fan of generalization.

But I know that they are not in good standing with a lot of people and I don't think it's worse in some countries than it is in others. People fear the unknown or have bad experiences and pass these feelings on over generations. They have a bad reputation in all countries. I heard people ranting about the "dirty and thieving gypsies" in Germany and the UK - so I'm not surprised it's the same in Spain.

*It is indeed a curse - but it's not limited to Roma - it affects most minorities.*


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Might be of interest to some of you....a couple of minutes of a Gitano mass communion from May of last year!


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

No observations on the vid? If you look closely you'll see the scruffiest and most uncouth person on there is me!


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2009)

On canalsur (I believe) in Andalucia on Friday nights there is a program called Callajeros (about 10pm) - often it is focused on Gitanos living in basic conditions in Las Barranquillas and Las Canadas - lots of drugs and young mothers with multiple children. I am sure they highlight the worst and there are plenty of good ones out there (although probably outnumbered by those who are not so good) but I think they tend to keep to their own communities. The program is worth watching for a bit of an insight into lives of a community which is hidden from view. I for one would be more cautious when dealing with them than if dealing with a Spaniard.


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

xtreme said:


> might be of interest to some of you....a couple of minutes of a gitano mass communion from may of last year!
> 
> youtube - communion


extreme they will always be classed as what they put in to life
f***k all sorry to sound blunt but i dont see it any other way.

And u can paint any picture u want it's still the same old painting !


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

jkchawner said:


> extreme they will always be classed as what they put in to life
> f***k all sorry to sound blunt but i dont see it any other way.
> 
> And u can paint any picture u want it's still the same old painting !


While its unfair to generalise,I do understand jks point.
From what I have seen personally its mostly a case of taking as much as possible and giving little or nothing back to the outside World and society in general.

I accept the fact that they are not all bad eggs and there surely must be many decent ppl.amongst them,......however I get the impression that the hardliners in their numbers,(mostly take and little give),almost always hold sway.


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

jkchawner said:


> extreme they will always be classed as what they put in to life
> f***k all sorry to sound blunt but i dont see it any other way.
> 
> And u can paint any picture u want it's still the same old painting !


I think you have to be careful here JK .... generalising is sometimes ok, but blanket statements about an entire race of people is not. I think I mentioned in previous posts that often our opinion are based on our own personal experiences ... maybe yours have all beed bad ones on this subject ? or maybe they are based on what you read or have heard from others ... ?
My own experience was in the UK where I was involved with a "traveller" community from an educational point of view .. and I have to say the make-up of the community was as diverse as any other Ive seen ... good, bad, funny, scarey, educated, illiterate, welcoming, wary.... etc etc etc.

Unfortunately I also listen to similar negative feelings on Moroccans, Turks amongst others....whereas again my own experience of people from both these Counties has only been positive - I have friends / colleagues from both and to me they are just nice people who I always enjoy spending time with ... it matters not a jot to me where they are from - like it matters not a jot to me that some of my friends are from London / Sheffield / Malaga / Rhonda / Dubai / Bulgaria ...they are individuals and dont represent an entire community, Country or race.

Sue


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## scharlack (Nov 21, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> I think you have to be careful here JK .... generalising is sometimes ok, but blanket statements about an entire race of people is not. I think I mentioned in previous posts that often our opinion are based on our own personal experiences ... maybe yours have all beed bad ones on this subject ? or maybe they are based on what you read or have heard from others ... ?
> My own experience was in the UK where I was involved with a "traveller" community from an educational point of view .. and I have to say the make-up of the community was as diverse as any other Ive seen ... good, bad, funny, scarey, educated, illiterate, welcoming, wary.... etc etc etc.
> 
> Unfortunately I also listen to similar negative feelings on Moroccans, Turks amongst others....whereas again my own experience of people from both these Counties has only been positive - I have friends / colleagues from both and to me they are just nice people who I always enjoy spending time with ... it matters not a jot to me where they are from - like it matters not a jot to me that some of my friends are from London / Sheffield / Malaga / Rhonda / Dubai / Bulgaria ...they are individuals and dont represent an entire community, Country or race.
> ...


Sue, I agree 100% with your comment. And I would like to add that if everyone carried life with your philosophy then we would have much less misjudging/racism or whatever one wants to name it. 

Bottom line is what you said: "they are individuals and dont represent an entire community, country or race."

Cheers!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jkchawner said:


> extreme they will always be classed as what they put in to life
> f***k all sorry to sound blunt but i dont see it any other way.
> 
> And u can paint any picture u want it's still the same old painting !


I have to say thats one of the most appalling generalisations to make! Maybe we could say that because a number of British holidaymakers go to Benidorm, get drunk and throw up in the street, that all British are drunkards!


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> I think you have to be careful here JK .... generalising is sometimes ok, but blanket statements about an entire race of people is not. I think I mentioned in previous posts that often our opinion are based on our own personal experiences ... maybe yours have all beed bad ones on this subject ? or maybe they are based on what you read or have heard from others ... ?
> My own experience was in the UK where I was involved with a "traveller" community from an educational point of view .. and I have to say the make-up of the community was as diverse as any other Ive seen ... good, bad, funny, scarey, educated, illiterate, welcoming, wary.... etc etc etc.
> 
> Unfortunately I also listen to similar negative feelings on Moroccans, Turks amongst others....whereas again my own experience of people from both these Counties has only been positive - I have friends / colleagues from both and to me they are just nice people who I always enjoy spending time with ... it matters not a jot to me where they are from - like it matters not a jot to me that some of my friends are from London / Sheffield / Malaga / Rhonda / Dubai / Bulgaria ...they are individuals and dont represent an entire community, Country or race.
> ...


well were do i start sorry but im not backing down on that statment yes i aggree there will be some good but i have never met one and also dont no anybody who has either for that matter.
and yes i have been bit more than once. i have a unit in the countryside beautifull location next to a fishing lake and two country pub's surround by 1 mill pound plus houses etc last time and there have been many they made camp they were not happy with just making a mess and harresing all sorts of people and business's etc they decide to break in to 3 of them mine inc and caused thousends of pounds worth of damage by stealing and even isolating the 3 phase cables and nicking them as well ! and for good measure they even poisened the lake with bleach killing over 30ks worth of fish before they left. if there is a next time we are not going to listen to the police etc and do it the legal way we will just sort it out areselfs with forklifts see how long they want to stay when the first caravan hits the bottom of the lake.
lovely people 
and yes extreme i bet there are some good ones in spain but i can also say with 100% certainty there are more bad for every good one. sorry thats my point of view on it like it or not. 
as for benidorm strav do you really think im like that when i go away ?
shows that u dont no me then i can drink for england mate but i always always respect those around me and the country im in.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jkchawner said:


> as for benidorm strav do you really think im like that when i go away ?
> shows that u dont no me then i can drink for england mate but i always always respect those around me and the country im in.


Errrr .... I think you completely missed my point there. I wasnt referring to you, I was referring to tarring everyone with the same brush.


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> Errrr .... I think you completely missed my point there. I wasnt referring to you, I was referring to tarring everyone with the same brush.


thats ok mate i dont even drink much on holiday to be honest beach all day shopping in the evening bingo  lots of bingo  then nice meal in a nice restraunt then a nightcap maybe. i can drink in england as much as i want so why go mad just because your in another country ?


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## Hurricane (Aug 12, 2007)

jkchawner said:


> extreme they will always be classed as what they put in to life
> f***k all sorry to sound blunt but i dont see it any other way.
> 
> And u can paint any picture u want it's still the same old painting !


Award for the most bigoted reply to a thread for sure!


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

Hurricane said:


> Award for the most bigoted reply to a thread for sure!


thats not said in jest its from factual encounters with more than a few of them in the uk. yes there are good but i haven't met 1 out of lots i have met yet fact. i have no other opinion on them due to there own making is that my fault ?


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jkchawner said:


> thats not said in jest its from factual encounters with more than a few of them in the uk. yes there are good but i haven't met 1 out of lots i have met yet fact. i have no other opinion on them due to there own making is that my fault ?


Yeah but what you are doing is writing them all off for the experience you have had of a few in the UK who, by the sounds of it, camped near your warehouse.

In Huescar for instance .... believe it or not .... they live in real houses, and have jobs, and go to the toilet in real bathrooms!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> In Huescar for instance .... believe it or not .... they live in real houses, and have jobs, and go to the toilet in real bathrooms!!



So what makes them "different" from everyone else?? How come they still get the tag "Roma" ???

Jo xxx


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## scharlack (Nov 21, 2008)

jkchawner said:


> well were do i start sorry but im not backing down on that statment yes i aggree there will be some good but i have never met one and also dont no anybody who has either for that matter.
> and yes i have been bit more than once. i have a unit in the countryside beautifull location next to a fishing lake and two country pub's surround by 1 mill pound plus houses etc last time and there have been many they made camp they were not happy with just making a mess and harresing all sorts of people and business's etc they decide to break in to 3 of them mine inc and caused thousends of pounds worth of damage by stealing and even isolating the 3 phase cables and nicking them as well ! and for good measure they even poisened the lake with bleach killing over 30ks worth of fish before they left. if there is a next time we are not going to listen to the police etc and do it the legal way we will just sort it out areselfs with forklifts see how long they want to stay when the first caravan hits the bottom of the lake.
> lovely people
> and yes extreme i bet there are some good ones in spain but i can also say with 100% certainty there are more bad for every good one. sorry thats my point of view on it like it or not.
> ...


I understand your frustration from previous experiences, but your comments have been racist...

These people are around a lot of places in the world and they are not all the same.


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

scharlack said:


> I understand your frustration from previous experiences, but your comments have been racist...
> 
> These people are around a lot of places in the world and they are not all the same.


yes your right. because im deff not racist but bad experiance's can cloud over and make things a lot worse i suppose. but me racist never been and never will be so sorry if anyone thought that i was im deff not  but once bit twice shy for me on my uk roma's


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## jkchawner (Dec 21, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> Yeah but what you are doing is writing them all off for the experience you have had of a few in the UK who, by the sounds of it, camped near your warehouse.
> 
> In Huescar for instance .... believe it or not .... they live in real houses, and have jobs, and go to the toilet in real bathrooms!!


well i have to say im wrong then but my uk experiance's are real bad as are a lot of other business folk's i no and deal with on a day to day. but as you all rightly say there are good and bad in all so slap accepted on that one  and no offense intended but im sure you can all see my point as well :focus:


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

jkchawner said:


> well i have to say im wrong then but my uk experiance's are real bad as are a lot of other business folk's i no and deal with on a day to day. but as you all rightly say there are good and bad in all so slap accepted on that one  and no offense intended but im sure you can all see my point as well :focus:



Its interesting when travelling thru various EU countries to listen to opinions from all walks of life, incl.local authorities and police.
Its also interesting to note that opinions regarding the origins of people who cause the most problems, tend to vary very little country by country.
Pure co-incidence?...... I doubt it.


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

littleredrooster said:


> Its interesting when travelling thru various EU countries to listen to opinions from all walks of life, incl.local authorities and police.
> Its also interesting to note that opinions regarding the origins of people who cause the most problems, tend to vary very little country by country.
> 
> 
> ...


Probably not .... but one of the points made earlier was not to generalise and take the "bad" as being a complete picture of an entire race or culture. In the same way I suppose that if you asked many europeans, including police, hotel/bar owners etc what they thought of British holidaymakers - you may get a pretty negative answer (based on previous post and newspapers articles we have seen of late) but wouldnt it be awful, frustrating and wrong if that then gave you, me and the majority of pretty decent people on here the same label ??

Sue lane:


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> Probably not .... but one of the points made earlier was not to generalise and take the "bad" as being a complete picture of an entire race or culture. In the same way I suppose that if you asked many europeans, including police, hotel/bar owners etc what they thought of British holidaymakers - you may get a pretty negative answer (based on previous post and newspapers articles we have seen of late) but wouldnt it be awful, frustrating and wrong if that then gave you, me and the majority of pretty decent people on here the same label ??
> 
> Sue lane:


I dont think my post does generalise.
However its quite likely that if there were accurate statistics available,regarding who from where done what,....its a fair bet that the results would be much the same and thats not generalising either.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

During our three years' stay in the Czech Republic we experienced five instances of attempted (but unsuccessful due to our vicious response!!) thefts. All carried out by Roma. We also saw areas of Roma housing which were filthy, run-down, loads of dirty, wild-seeming children, idle unshaven men etc etc....Our highly educated Czech friends were prone to making casually racist comments about these people. Teachers complain about the problems they have with Roma children and parents. Czechs complain that they are workshy and drink away their welfare benefits. The Czech Government has been criticised for its alleged discrimination against Roma children in education.
There is undoubtedly a problem with Roma not only in the Czech Republic or Spain but in all European countries where there are large numbers of them. The plain fact is that their way of life does not fit in with the lifestyle of the majority of working Europeands and their families.
I hesitate to use the word'culture' in this context as I saw very little that constituted a distinct Roma 'culture', in the CR anyway.
I honestly don't know what the solution is except education, in the long term anyway.
My own feelings are like most posters here - I judge on character, not race or ethnic origin. I certainly wouldn't like to live in some of the Roma areas I saw around Prague.
But then I wouldn't like to live in some of the rough council estates I've seen in the UK.


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

littleredrooster said:


> I dont think my post does generalise.
> However its quite likely that if there were accurate statistics available,regarding who from where done what,....its a fair bet that the results would be much the same and thats not generalising either.


Hi LR

I wasnt suggesting you were generalising - and wasnt critising  difficult to "speak" on here when no one can here the tone of your voice! I was just saying that there is a high probability that a lot of people in different Countries have similar opinions of certain people - BUT that I and others had mentioned before that it didnt necessarily mean that everyone belonging to a particular group / race / culture were the same and therefore treated as such ..... I will accept stats on crime levels committed by certain groups for example - but it wouldnt then cause me to assume that everyone in that group was a criminal ...... I wuold rather judge every individual as that ... an individual ... and my own experience of certain cultures and groups has been positive not negative ..... I have plenty of negative experiences of British people and Spanish people - but that doesnt stop me liking and wanting to be friends with other Brits and Spaniards .... so my moroccan friends for example are just that, my friends ...Sue


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Rereading my previous post I think I've sounded a bit too 'anti Roma'. I'm not, I met hardworking Roma with jobs and their own businesses so I don't want to characterise them all as idle etc. 
But there is a problem and in the CR at least steps have to be taken on both sides.
Don't know much about the situation in Spain, here in the Marbella/Estepona area most dark-skinned people seem to be Moroccans.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

jkchawner said:


> well i have to say im wrong then but my uk experiance's are real bad as are a lot of other business folk's i no and deal with on a day to day. but as you all rightly say there are good and bad in all so slap accepted on that one  and no offense intended but im sure you can all see my point as well :focus:


I wasnt slapping you 
I see your point from your personal experiences.
I hear a lot from Xtreme about his experiences as well, and he tells a different story.

The Spaniards hate them with a vengance, its always been the case from what I have read. All I say is that we cant tar them all with the same brush, for as you say there are good and bad in all walks of life.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Interesting observations here!

Well the jury has returned.....and the verdict is unanimous!

The Roma are without doubt not to be trusted.

Be particularly wary of the Roma property scams on illegal builds, Roma corruption in local government, organised gangs of Roma gassing people in their villas, Roma carjacking, Roma email scammers, Roma terrorists, Roma rapists on the Costas, Roma beating up Brit tourists, Roma smuggling boatloads of illegals into the country, illegal Roma Estate Agents and Builders.....the list is endless.

And you lot were worried about Zionist conspiracies? Get with the program!


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## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

XTreme said:


> Interesting observations here!
> 
> Well the jury has returned.....and the verdict is unanimous!
> 
> ...


I am surprised EX at this post!! I thought you would surmize the opposite or at least have positive things to say about them as I know you have friends that are roma's?!?! Otherwise you would not be a guest at the christening (or was it wedding. Quite a while since I watched the video. Nothing to do with age...lol)would you?? You live amongst them and would have a good idea of what they are really like, in your area anyway?! Do you really mean what you say above?? I don't think so!:confused2:


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Maggie....it was a parody on the fact that none of those crimes (that are probably going on now) were actually perpetrated by Roma. Yet they're viewed as a plague that infests countries.
Those situations were all down to other nationalities/ethnic groups.....yet you never see mass condemnation of them.....particularly if they're black.
If you get petty pilfering they may be in the frame for it.....but serious multi-million euro crime or organised, violent crime.....NO!


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