# Fiscal number



## grandwazoo

Can anyone enlighten me on how to get one of these?
I'm British, renting an apartment in the Algarve for a year; the estate agent drew up a contract using my passport number and happily gave me the keys, so I have an address, but I'd like to open a bank a/c so i can more easily transfer money from the UK and pay bills. All the banks I've asked - including 2 with which i have accounts in the UK - say I need a fiscal number to do this.
I tried the Financas offices in both Lagos and Portimao, and have been told variously (by different people on the same day!) that:
* I need a friend who speaks (or is) Portuguese to be a fiscal representative
* I need a lawyer
* I need a company to act on my behalf
* I need a residency permit from the Camara Municipal
* I need a valid address in Portugal - my current address is invalid because I don't have a fiscal number (!!!!) so the contract is invalid.

Should I just give up and carry on using cash & my UK credit cards? Bear in mind I'm retired so don't work, and own no property in Portugal.

Terry


----------



## canoeman

grandwazoo said:


> Can anyone enlighten me on how to get one of these?
> I'm British, renting an apartment in the Algarve for a year; the estate agent drew up a contract using my passport number and happily gave me the keys, so I have an address, but I'd like to open a bank a/c so i can more easily transfer money from the UK and pay bills. All the banks I've asked - including 2 with which i have accounts in the UK - say I need a fiscal number to do this.
> I tried the Financas offices in both Lagos and Portimao, and have been told variously (by different people on the same day!) that:
> * I need a friend who speaks (or is) Portuguese to be a fiscal representative
> * I need a lawyer
> * I need a company to act on my behalf
> * I need a residency permit from the Camara Municipal
> * I need a valid address in Portugal - my current address is invalid because I don't have a fiscal number (!!!!) so the contract is invalid.
> 
> Should I just give up and carry on using cash & my UK credit cards? Bear in mind I'm retired so don't work, and own no property in Portugal.
> 
> Terry


Yes you need a fiscal number, the *only requirement* at Financas is your Passport, UK address and €7, you only require a Fiscal Representitve if you are a NON Resident owner of property.
It is* not*necassery to have any of the things you mention.

Maybe they misunderstand your question, just go in an ask for a Fiscal Number because you intend to buy a property and open a Bank A/c, useing your Passport and UK address.
With Fiscal number you can then open a Bank A/c with your UK address, then get contract altered, then you alter your address at Financas and Bank.
Depending on how long you've been here then you will also need to register here, but that is a seperate issue and has no bearing on obtaining a Fiscal Number.


----------



## siobhanwf

*Obtaining a fiscal number in Portugal*

Número de Indentificação Fiscal (NIF) - Fiscal Number*
Anyone moving to Portugal must apply for the Número de Indentificação Fiscal. An NIF number is required for a number of actions: to buy a house or car; when receiving income from work or business.

Applications for an NIF number can be made by tourists or residents at the local Tax Office (finanças), on presentation of a valid passport. A temporary fiscal number will be given until the permanent card (Cartão de Contribueinte) is issued which can take anything from a few months to over a year. The tax number will be used for all business transactions, buying and selling property and will appear on all tax returns.

Since the introduction of the Citizen's Card which incorporates the tax number, Portuguese nationals no longer receive a Cartão de Contribueinte. However foreigners are still issued with the Cartão de Contribueinte.


----------



## siobhanwf

*Authorisation for Residence and Residence Permits*

Residency Permits (Autorização de Residência)
The Portuguese Immigration Service (Serviço de Estrangeiros e Fronteiras, SEF) is the administrative body responsible for issuing residence permits.*

It provides comprehensive information in English on entering the country and taking up residency: Click here
An FAQ (frequently asked questions) section deals with all relevant topics: Click here
Authorisation for Residence and Residence Permits
The residence card (Autorização de Residência) is necessary for anyone who moves to Portugal, or for anyone who is planning to stay for longer than six months. This includes those who work, the self-employed, students, those intending to live off savings, retired people and family members of any of the above.

Applications for a residency permit should be made at the regional directorate or the Delegation of the SEF in the area of residence.

SEF Head Office
At: Rua Conselheiro José Silvestre Ribeiro 4, 1649-007 Lisbon
Tel: 217 115 000 
Fax: 217 161 595
To find a local SEF office: 
Necessary Documents
When applying for a residency permit the following documents must be supplied:

Application Form
Valid passport plus one photocopy
Two identical recent, colour passport photos
Proof of income / financial independence
Proof of accommodation

Portal SEF


----------



## canoeman

The application for Residence has changed, yes it is still regulated by SEF, but you no longer need to apply for a Residence Card, but you do have to Register your Residence here.

It should be done within 30 days of being in Portugal for 3 months.
The process is very simplified and is handled by your local Camra, requires Passport and proof of address, normally an ASTESTADO from your local Junta costs appox €7

You might be required to make a statement and possibly prove that you are financialy independent, unless working and that you are in Portuguese NHS or have medical Insurance.
Although part of the Regulations this is very depentant on Camra.

The A4 paper Registration is valid for I think 5 years, or the expirey date of your passport if that is sooner.
If you have lived here for 5 years legally, then you can get a Permanent Residence Card from SEF, require Passport, 2 photos, proof of 5 years Residence and €15


----------



## grandwazoo

Thanks guys, that's brilliant.
So my first step is back to the Financas office... my only worry is, if its so straightforward, why did 2 different offices refuse me a number in the first place? Still, I can but try


----------



## canoeman

grandwazoo said:


> Thanks guys, that's brilliant.
> So my first step is back to the Financas office... my only worry is, if its so straightforward, why did 2 different offices refuse me a number in the first place? Still, I can but try


Maybe they just misunderstood what you required, but it is a basic neccesity in Portugal and normally extremley easy to obtain.
Re Plastic Card with name and Fiscal Number printed, I don't think they are issued anymore, it's far better to photocopy the original A4 sheet with your number and details and carry photocpy that with you at all times, it soon gets tatty.


----------



## Algarve

Just a little note: Canoeman has the best suggestion, but in Portugal , the law states all photo copies of documents that are being presented for ID must only be in Grey/or Back/white, it is illegal to copy a document in colour if presenting for any use as id, for any reason. you can get a copy of your passport from a post office , normally €17 for 2 years then it expires, as does your fiscal if you look at the top right hand side it has a date then tells you the expire date, I have mine renewed when I tax my car at the tax office. you do not need to. but I have been ask to get and uptodate copy twice in 6 years


----------



## canoeman

You must have different Fiscal No forms in the Algarve, none of ours bear an expirey date.
The only dates on A4 Fiscal No Registration are D.O.B the date of application or date when we have moved Financas districts.

The no longer issued Green Card shows joining date, and date when we moved districts and a new card issued, the form also had this information printed at top.

The reverse is actually true with Financas, you have to tell them if you are leaving Portugal permantley, otherwise they presume your here, you also don't need it offically copied, as it is information not ID.

Your local Junta can also supply a Notarised copy of documents, generally cheaper than the Post Office or the Notaries Offices who can only Notarise Portuguese documents.


----------



## grandwazoo

Just thought I'd best add a tidy-up message to say how I got on.
I eventually gave up on Financas offices in the Algarve and drove to Odemira in the Alentejo. The Tax office there gave me a fiscal number without any difficulties.
I guess that's Portugal for you.


----------



## canoeman

grandwazoo said:


> Just thought I'd best add a tidy-up message to say how I got on.
> I eventually gave up on Financas offices in the Algarve and drove to Odemira in the Alentejo. The Tax office there gave me a fiscal number without any difficulties.
> I guess that's Portugal for you.


Great news for you, Bank Account now. 
Unfortunately often the case here you come up against this brick wall, so unnecessary


----------



## bhbloom

grandwazoo said:


> Just thought I'd best add a tidy-up message to say how I got on.
> I eventually gave up on Financas offices in the Algarve and drove to Odemira in the Alentejo. The Tax office there gave me a fiscal number without any difficulties.
> I guess that's Portugal for you.


I gave up trying to do it myself and got my portuguese solicitor to get mine.


----------



## Ash Jez

*2016 Update*

I know this is an old post which may in fact help others here with the same question and or problem with gaining a Fiscal number. I, in person went to the local finance office in Miranda Do Corvo, Coimbra district. I did this without an appointment. I'm pleased to say that I was seen within 10 minutes and received my fiscal number withing about another 10 minutes. I'm a UK citizen with a UK passport visiting Portugal.

I have no fixed address at this time. I was asked to produce my passport and nothing else. With the help of a friend to translate I informed the clerk I was just visiting and required the fiscal number to perform financial transactions. There was no problem and I was gone with a fiscal number as I said, in 10 minutes.

I was a little worried that I may have problem, but none what-so-ever.


----------



## Strontium

When I lived in UK, on advice from an agent, I just popped to London to the Millenium BCP office and they did the necessary (and gave me decent coffee) so got the fiscal number and Portuguese bank account before looking for property in Portugal. When I knew the exact area I wanted to live and with a decent PT lawyer I bought the first place without seeing it via the agent I trusted.


----------



## dkw

Ash Jez said:


> I know this is an old post which may in fact help others here with the same question and or problem with gaining a Fiscal number. I, in person went to the local finance office in Miranda Do Corvo, Coimbra district. I did this without an appointment. I'm pleased to say that I was seen within 10 minutes and received my fiscal number withing about another 10 minutes. I'm a UK citizen with a UK passport visiting Portugal.
> 
> I have no fixed address at this time. I was asked to produce my passport and nothing else. With the help of a friend to translate I informed the clerk I was just visiting and required the fiscal number to perform financial transactions. There was no problem and I was gone with a fiscal number as I said, in 10 minutes.
> 
> I was a little worried that I may have problem, but none what-so-ever.


Hello – I have a few questions for you. Do you think it was due to the office location that you were able to get the fiscal number so quickly? I will be using the local Porto office unless it is easier to go into a less populated area. Also, is it a temporary or permanent fiscal number? Lastly, did you have to have your passport translated into Portuguese?


----------



## Ash Jez

Hi DKW. I updated my details when I moved to a new location the the update took less than 5 minutes. I would say that the time taken will depend on what office you attend, the number of people in a queue if any. Your ability to make yourself understood and how fast the member of staff is. As said in the first place, perhaps 10 to 20 minutes for the initial application including wait and 5 for the update. Don't forget your docs. I used the address I was staying at for the initial month in Pt.


----------



## dkw

Ash Jez said:


> Hi DKW. I updated my details when I moved to a new location the the update took less than 5 minutes. I would say that the time taken will depend on what office you attend, the number of people in a queue if any. Your ability to make yourself understood and how fast the member of staff is. As said in the first place, perhaps 10 to 20 minutes for the initial application including wait and 5 for the update. Don't forget your docs. I used the address I was staying at for the initial month in Pt.


Thank you for the information. Regarding your passport - did you have to have it translated? We appreciate your help.


----------



## Naaling

dkw said:


> Thank you for the information. Regarding your passport - did you have to have it translated? We appreciate your help.


Given the often variable nature of Portuguese bureaucracy, it can be difficult to make a definitive statement about anything. 
However, I can say this. In just over a year of dealing with a number of Portuguese government departments, I have never been required to have an English language document translated into Portuguese.


----------



## dkw

Naaling said:


> Given the often variable nature of Portuguese bureaucracy, it can be difficult to make a definitive statement about anything.
> However, I can say this. In just over a year of dealing with a number of Portuguese government departments, I have never been required to have an English language document translated into Portuguese.


Thank you for the information, that is really good to know. Our son has lived in multiple countries and has always had to have his documents translated... We really appreciate your help.


----------

