# Patzcuaro



## Dmexx

I have lived in Mexico about ten years, mostly around Guadalajara. But am considering a change.

Patzcuaro is noted for its charm and has wonderful homes listed for sale on the Internet.

So I am wondering how it stacks up by someone who actually lives full time there.

Is it too remote, too rustic, or just about right?

What is the good and the bad?


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## RVGRINGO

We like visiting there, but it is too high for my ailing lungs and too cold, especially in winter without central heating.


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## conklinwh

We visit often and have a good friend with hotel there. Also, one of our friends here, Mineral de Pozos, is seriously looking at buying a house there as prices have really dropped.
We think that a great place to visit but really don't like the weather much, especially the dampness in summer. It is very quaint, surrounded by wonderful craft villages. As i said, prices are very reasonable right now and seems like a lot to do.


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## ptrichmondmike

Hello, I'm new to the forum. I'm retiring in three years and have been focusing on the Cuenca, Ecuador region. But I also love Mexico and Mexicans and have visited many times, mostly northern Baja but also DF, Puebla, and Oaxaca. I can speak broken Spanish from years of study and occasional usage, and plan to upgrade before I make my move.

I must say that Patzcuaro looks very, very inviting. I've wondered for a long time about towns like Patzcuaro and Taxco, but never visited them. The Patzcuaro climate looks perfect for me. The fact that it doesn't attract many ****** tourists is a plus. How well could a single guy live on SS income of $1,400/month? I have a pretty simple, low-consumer lifestyle, but would like a nice apartment or little house. What kinds of rentals are available? Can you live without a car?

Thanks in advance for any comments.


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## RVGRINGO

See posting #2 on Patcuaro; cold winters & summer rains. Your income would be fine and you could certainly live without a car, but might prefer one. Patzcuaro has buses, taxis and colectivos.


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## Guest

I know a retiree from the U.S. who has been living on $800/mo Social Security income. That must be pretty tight, but he seems to be active and enjoy things. 
Fresh vegetables and fruit cost less than in the U.S. and are available every day at the market in the center of town. You can get around by "combi" (collective van transportation) quite cheaply, including to outlying pueblos. Meats at the market are also affordable. Take buses to other cities.

You can apply for a "senior" gente grande card even though you are not a citizen and this gives you many discounts.

Appliances, electronics and manufactured items cost more than in the U.S. and seem to be of lower quality.

Dentists and physicians are far more affordable.

There is a lot to do and see, and most of these activities are free.

Not only is Mexico less expensive than the U.S., but Patzcuaro is less expensive than larger cities and towns here.

I am a Patzcuaro fan. 

Good luck. T.


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## ptrichmondmike

Thanks, Tracy, for the helpful reply. I'm wondering about rental housing, as I have no desire to suffer the hassles of property ownership. May I assume that the rental situation in Patzcuaro is similar to other Mexican cities that aren't tourist traps? By which I mean, a furnished two BR apartment or house for 
$350/month, or less?

As I said, I'm really interested in Ecuador, which also offers resident seniors plenty of discounts, is as cheap or even cheaper than Mexico, and has my ideal weather in the highlands. But -- and it's a big but -- I doubt if I'll get many visits from friends or family. The proximity of Mexico ("so far from God, so near to the United States") is a huge plus from that standpoint. And the infrastructure of Mexico is clearly superior to that of Ecuador. Not to mention the food.


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## moisheh

Patzcuarao is one of our favorite places. But I would never choose to live there. Far too cold. Presently the entire state is suffering from the cartel violence. Some of the cities and towns in the area have been taken over by criminals. There has been problems in some areas with the army. It takes a special person to live in an area with very few foreigners. We speak neough Spanish and do have friends in 2 villages in that area. But I would imagine it being very hard to make acquaintances. Transportation is very easy in both the city and surrounding areas.


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## Guest

*Patzcuaro is tranquilo*

Patzcuaro is quite tranquil. One can walk everywhere comfortably during the day; I use discretion at night everywhere. Very easy to make acquaintances/friends. One cannot walk to the Centro without seeing someone one knows--and stop for a coffee. Just enough expats but not to0 many. Not too cold--but that is a matter of personal preference.


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## sparks

There's actually quite a few gringos in Patzcuaro and the area. Try a search in Yahoo groups for 'Michoacan_net' to talk to some locals. I attended 2 sessions of a month each in a very good Spanish school (CELEP), one in winter and one in summer. Getting up early in February to see the Monarchs in eastern Michoacan there was frost on the car windows. The summer session seemed like constant rain and thunder storms .... but it wasn't really. Really amazing artisans thru the whole area.

I prefer less extreme weather but definitely worth checking out


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## ptrichmondmike

moisheh said:


> Patzcuarao is one of our favorite places. But I would never choose to live there. Far too cold. Presently the entire state is suffering from the cartel violence. Some of the cities and towns in the area have been taken over by criminals. There has been problems in some areas with the army. It takes a special person to live in an area with very few foreigners. We speak neough Spanish and do have friends in 2 villages in that area. But I would imagine it being very hard to make acquaintances. Transportation is very easy in both the city and surrounding areas.


Thanks for your perspective, moisheh...some people like cool weather more than others, and I'm one of them. I've lived in New York City (13 years), Chicago (4 years) and Taos, N.M. (5 years). All of them had brutal winters, which I hated...although Taos is so beautiful in the winter that it didn't matter -- and you could drive a mile in any direction, strap on your X-country skis, and glide through a national forest for hours. I don't think a little frost will bother me too much. Cuenca, Ecuador is more or less 75 during the day/55 at night throughout the year. That sounds like heaven to me, but sometimes an invigorating chill is welcome, in small bites. In Ecuador you just go higher to get colder, and I think Patzcuaro sounds pretty ideal.

As for the violence, yes, I do think about that -- but I'm an astrology enthusiast and don't see a violent end to my journey. I also live in one of America's most violent cities and work in another with even worse violence (Richmond and Oakland, CA), so in some ways I'm already inured to it. And I am under the impression that expats are rarely exposed to cartel violence.

I've been waiting to move to a place "with very few foreigners" like Cuenca or Patzcuaro for half my life. Trying to hold onto sanity and humanity in the U.S. is getting harder for me every year. So much of our culture depresses me that sometimes it gets hard to breathe.

Lol...enough about that...thanks again!



sparks said:


> There's actually quite a few gringos in Patzcuaro and the area. Try a search in Yahoo groups for 'Michoacan_net' to talk to some locals. I attended 2 sessions of a month each in a very good Spanish school (CELEP), one in winter and one in summer. Getting up early in February to see the Monarchs in eastern Michoacan there was frost on the car windows. The summer session seemed like constant rain and thunder storms .... but it wasn't really. Really amazing artisans thru the whole area.
> 
> I prefer less extreme weather but definitely worth checking out


Thank you for the blog tip -- I'll check it out right away.

Personally, I love rain and thunderstorms, so that's a big plus!



Tracy Online said:


> Patzcuaro is quite tranquil. One can walk everywhere comfortably during the day; I use discretion at night everywhere. Very easy to make acquaintances/friends. One cannot walk to the Centro without seeing someone one knows--and stop for a coffee. Just enough expats but not to0 many. Not too cold--but that is a matter of personal preference.


Thanks. You are making a very good case for Patzcuaro. I think I understand that Patzcuaro, at its most wintry "extreme," is not too cold for me. It's just a tad below balmy, and requires the cashmere scarf now and then. 

I think I just might love this place a whole lot!


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## conklinwh

Given your interest in Patzcuaro and your question on NGO's, maybe Tracy or others can give you leads on possibilities there. I'm sure that there are some but might be more in Morelia as state capital and much larger but that 45min or so away.
Given your background, there might be possibilities in supporting or otherwise supporting the Purepecha population however only things that I have seen are small facilities at some of the ruins, especially Tzintzuntzan.


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## ptrichmondmike

conklinwh said:


> Given your interest in Patzcuaro and your question on NGO's, maybe Tracy or others can give you leads on possibilities there. I'm sure that there are some but might be more in Morelia as state capital and much larger but that 45min or so away.
> Given your background, there might be possibilities in supporting or otherwise supporting the Purepecha population however only things that I have seen are small facilities at some of the ruins, especially Tzintzuntzan.


Thanks -- it probably would be best to settle in to whatever my final choice is and see what kind of volunteer opps are available. I don't really think I'll need any extra income, but volunteering would seem a good way to establish some credibility and a social network with Mexican citizens, as well as being fun (hopefully) and rewarding in itself.

Curiously, the only professor who ever gave me an A+ in an undergraduate course was the anthropologist who wrote the classic study of the village of Tzintzuntzan during the 1940s and 1950s, George Foster. It would be strange, or maybe not, if I ended up living in the neighborhood.


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## Guest

*Night of the Dead in Patzcuaro*

The celebration of Day of the Dead in Mexico has evolved from a synchretism of the Catholic faith and indigenous traditions and beliefs. Even more remarkable is the observance of Night of the Dead in the Lake Patzcuaro region. This draws visitors from all over Mexico because of customs unique even within Mexico. The visitors to the area are approximately 95% mexicanos and 5% extranjeros. For information, photos and videos try googling Night of the Dead. There is also a photo set on flickr. Search: night of the dead - lake patzcuaro. Hasta más.


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## Guest

conklinwh said:


> Given your interest in Patzcuaro and your question on NGO's, maybe Tracy or others can give you leads on possibilities there...


Belatedly: From my sparse experience with NGOs in Mexico, there is not much chance of you finding work here if you do not have Mexican citizenship, and even then it would be very difficult. I believe you should find an NGO in the U.S. for whom you could do some work in this region. With broadband internet access available, you can easily submit any written work in timely fashion.


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## sparks

I would contact CELEP (www.celep.com.mx/). They are a language school and Eco tours. "Dedicated to fostering cross-cultural understanding of the Purhépecha people, culture and homelands with sustainable tourism". Very nice people and would probably know about most volunteer positions. Might also help with their English classes while taking some Spanish. They have a nice new website


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## Guest

sparks said:


> I would contact CELEP (CELEP). They are a language school and Eco tours. "Dedicated to fostering cross-cultural understanding of the Purhépecha people, culture and homelands with sustainable tourism". Very nice people and would probably know about most volunteer positions. Might also help with their English classes while taking some Spanish. They have a nice new website


Oops. I thought I recalled a question about supplementing income. Not only was I tardy but out of the loop. Thank you, Sparks, for the good info.


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## telcoman

Love the place, but it sure gets cold at night in the winter.


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