# Buying Property



## johnbear1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Has anyone purchased an apartment in Spain got a survey, paid all fees etc and everything was good FIRST time.
What happens if it's bad and has "do not buy"all over it. ??


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## raynard (Nov 26, 2014)

fourth time lucky for me.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

This seems like a better question for the Spain forum so I've moved it for you.


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

Then don't buy it. We had no problems with our purchase but we thoroughly researched those we worked with first and already had a relationship with our very trustworthy real estate broker first from our rentals with him. Just use common sense'


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Nope, not here.

It took at least 3 official bites of the cherry and a couple more thrown in for good measure before we even took it to solicitors.

First house was amazing but too small and we would of had to extend it but parts of it were built too close(not all that close really) to a tram line and ultimately the tram company would have final say if parts needed to be torn down and on any new building too.
We decided in the end that we didn't want to be held hostage by the tram company and backed out.
Shame too, last I saw the house is still for sale.

2nd house after months of stalling with the regularisation by their agent the agent thought we had signed the pre-contract and then sent us the paperwork we had asked for months earlier except it said the was an embargo on the property, thankfully we hadn't sent the contract yet and told them to shove it.

Finally the 3rd time we did get a fully legal property but it wasn't without a lot of mess and unnecessary run around and this was mainly due to the representative hired by the sellers who was hopeless and her inability to do her job meant it took 4 months just to complete. Couple that with the death of one of the sellers too but that really wasn't the hold up at all.

In amongst all this we had sellers who would accept your offer only to then back out when you won't pay 50grand off the record.

One agent accepted our offer on a house that wasn't on the market anymore.

One we backed out of because the sellers idea of passing the inspection for the habitation certificate was to brick up the door ways so they can't see the illegally built 200msq under build.

Another was accepted but then the son who just flew in from Oz decided he wasn't going to sell because he didn't like the family friend who we went through and under no circumstance was he going to sell it to anybody he found.

Plus there were others that simply were not prepared to pay for legalizing their property before selling.

I'm sure there was more but it's in the past and we have a home now so no point dwelling on it.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

21 years ago and still here! Only trying to sell now to move somewhere else within Spain. No survey done, they are most unusual in Spain. No trouble and no regrets!


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## johnbear1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Elyles said:


> Then don't buy it. We had no problems with our purchase but we thoroughly researched those we worked with first and already had a relationship with our very trustworthy real estate broker first from our rentals with him. Just use common sense'


So is it wise to pay for solicitors first to get the info, then get a survey ?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

johnbear1 said:


> Has anyone purchased an apartment in Spain got a survey, paid all fees etc and everything was good FIRST time.
> What happens if it's bad and has "do not buy"all over it. ??


Well, I bought a house rather than an apartment, and I didn't have a survey done, but yes, everything was and is fine with it, 12 years on and counting. Not buying a property built on rustic land cuts down the risk a lot, then you need a lawyer to check out that no unregistered extensions or alterations have been made to the house, or if they have, the vendors will bear the cost of having them "regularised" rather than you having to do it after you buy. 

If it has "do not buy" all over it, then don't buy it, simple as that.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

johnbear1 said:


> What happens if it's bad and has "do not buy"all over it. ??



Well you should obviously buy it..............


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## johnbear1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Rabbitcat said:


> Well you should obviously buy it..............


What I wanted to know was if "bad" was it needs work doing who would pay or if it had "bad" debts again who would pay...


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

I hate to say it but when I would have a client who came to me saying something like "My arm hurts when I hold it like this". I would always respond with "Well, don't hold it like that'"


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## johnbear1 (Apr 6, 2015)

OK Not what I meant so I take it back and will start over with the right words...
What if after paying for the survey and or solicitor fees its "bad" news like it needs repair or has bad debts or this or that.in England I would have the vendor pay for any faults or reduce the price further does it work that way in Spain ? or is running away and starting over on another property and maybe another property viable ?


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

If it has any debts or legal issues then it is entirely the vendors responsibility, you can of course come to some arrangement if you really want to but for my money the house is not fit for sale like that.

If there are any repairs needed then really it's a case of buy it in the condition it is in for the agreed price, you can't force a vendor to fix the plumbing or anything. Again there is always room for negotiation.


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## johnbear1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Thanks


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## marcia burrell (Aug 14, 2015)

I have been buying and selling properties for the past 20 years in Spain personally, and have not had any problems.

Just use common sense and ask all the relevant questions.

Best advice do not sign anything not even a reservation contract until all due diligence has been completed and you will have no problems!


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## johnbear1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Thank you for the information much appreciated I want to do everything through "A place in the Sun" I mean they have to be trustworthy right ???


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## marcia burrell (Aug 14, 2015)

" A place in the Sun" is a real estate platform for agents to market properties, so you are not actually going through them.

Having said that who every you decide to use make sure you are comfortable with them.

Trust no one only yourself ! due diligence is the key to buying safely in Spain.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

marcia burrell said:


> " A place in the Sun" is a real estate platform for agents to market properties, so you are not actually going through them.
> 
> Having said that who every you decide to use make sure you are comfortable with them.
> 
> Trust no one only yourself ! due diligence is the key to buying safely in Spain.


there was me thinking 'A place in the sun' was a TV programme....


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## jcarlos165 (Aug 15, 2015)

You have to check 3 things by yourself:
1) you need to ask fo "nota simple" in the "registro de la propiedad": you get the current debt, mortgage...
2) go to the president of the comunity and ask for the current status of the property
3) ask the seller for the last receipt of the council tax (IBI)
Cheers


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## johnbear1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Excellent just what I wanted.Thanx


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## jcarlos165 (Aug 15, 2015)

Cheers


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## rubytwo (Jun 22, 2015)

We've only recently started searching for properties, mainly in North Spain. We still finding our way around the Spainish market. In Spain is the asking price usually a reasonable indication of the expected final purchase price?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

rubytwo said:


> We've only recently started searching for properties, mainly in North Spain. We still finding our way around the Spainish market. In Spain is the asking price usually a reasonable indication of the expected final purchase price?


Generally, no - it's a buyers market.

However, (and this is one of my biggest bug-bears) a property is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. So, if the property is what you want and you can afford it, why try and screw the seller? One does not buy as an investment in Spain (well, generally not) - it is a life time purchase. 

So, if it's what you want at a price you can afford - buy it!


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

I totally agree. Long before I was a psychologist, I was a real estate broker in a family company. Everything is negotiable. However, it is not wise to insult a seller with a low-ball offer. You will find more deals in the overbuilt southern coastal areas than up north. Where we live, Jaca, in the North, it was only slightly hit by the crisis. We are a second home market! Anyway, when we bought a couple of years ago we paid 125k of a140k asking price.


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## rubytwo (Jun 22, 2015)

snikpoh said:


> Generally, no - it's a buyers market.
> 
> 
> 
> So, if the property is what you want and you can afford it, why try and screw the seller? ...........So, if it's what you want at a price you can afford - buy it!



Can I say that I'm not trying to " screw" anyone. However, on a limited budget I think that it's reasonable to know how much padding is usually built into the asking price. Every market is different. In some places the asking price comes with an expectation that you will come in with an offer.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

Where up North are you looking? It is also good to establish a relationship with a local real estate agent. They will more than likely give you solid advice.


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## rubytwo (Jun 22, 2015)

Elyles said:


> Where up North are you looking? It is also good to establish a relationship with a local real estate agent. They will more than likely give you solid advice.



We're looking in Cantabria, Asturias and parts of Galica. Yes I get the sense that the relationship with your agent is very different to what we're used to in Australia.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

Actual ly, we rentes from our agent for two years befo re we had him help us locate a property


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## johnbear1 (Apr 6, 2015)

No the fees are on top about 10-15%


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

Yeah, the fees are a bit on the ridiculous side


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Elyles said:


> Yeah, the fees are a bit on the ridiculous side


Really, why? We pay stamp duty in UK - don't you have a similar property tax in USA?

The rest is made up of solicitor charges, registration fees etc.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

rubytwo said:


> Can I say that I'm not trying to " screw" anyone. However, on a limited budget I think that it's reasonable to know how much padding is usually built into the asking price. Every market is different. In some places the asking price comes with an expectation that you will come in with an offer.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I certainly don't interpret your approach as trying to screw anyone! I think it's fair to enter into a property transaction with the aim of paying only as much as you need to in order to secure the purchase.

Given the state of the market in Spain over the last few years I think buyers and sellers are equally unsure about the value of a property. 

There are plenty of tales about people who were offered say, 200k for their property which was on the market for 250k. They turned down the offer only to eventually sell more than a year later (or more) for 150k.

Some insult the 200k offer turned out to be.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

snikpoh said:


> Really, why? We pay stamp duty in UK - don't you have a similar property tax in USA?
> 
> The rest is made up of solicitor charges, registration fees etc.


Most people pay between 2 and 5% in the UK. 

In the UK, on less than 125k GBO (172k Euros) you'll pay nothing and a solicitor will do the necessaries for less than 1k.

Up to 344k Euros you'd pay 2% plus 1k fees.

I won't do the sums for a Spanish property at the top end of that band, because even without doing so it's obvious that, for want of a better phrase, "the fees are a bit on the ridiculous side".


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## samthemainman (Aug 15, 2012)

I've posted before on this topic. I don't want to insult the professional Spanish estate agents who act with integrity and provide value for money for their clients.

Sadly in my house hunt in Valencia I saw some 20+ properties through as many estate agents, all of whom charged 2-3% commission (from the buyer as well as the seller, unless it was a bank property where it was usually zero commission) and frankly they just weren't worth it. They typically were under-prepared, didn't have answers to basic questions (why they were selling, monthly community charges, etc), and at most would just tell us what we already read on the website. 

The other purchase costs are also very high vs the UK for instance - capital gains charges being so high it fuels the national addiction to 'Dinero B'/Black Money and under-declaring the value on the deeds when they sell; you need to factor in the notary and mortgage costs too (both of which are considerably higher than the UK). All of this means that buying for investment in Spain currently is hard work - i.e. with all the costs involved you have to sell the property for at least 20% more than you bought it for to even break even. Of course this is all irrelevant if you're just buying a place to live in for a long time - but the purchase costs are MUCH higher for a modestly priced property. Purchase costs are typically 10-15% depending on a) which area of Spain you're in and b) whether you're paying an agent commission or not.

For me buying a property in Spain has been a real learning curve. Buying privately is a bit awkward (meeting the sellers on a few occasions, doing the running around with paperwork and banks) and it was difficult to get a seller to commit to a sale without any under the table money - but we got there. I resented giving an estate agent a 2-3% commission for just opening the door to a property, smoking out of the window while I looked round, encouraging me to partake in Dinero B to secure the sale, blah blah blah. Not for me. But I know there are many reputable agents out there who are professional to the core. 

In Valencia I just found the joint commission structure a conflict of interest and the rest of them frustrating and stereotypical - even if they were charming... maybe I'm just a cynic!


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

What sort of % below asking price were you inclined to offer?

Thanks


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