# Border of California - Mexico has new problems from Michoacan criminal organizations



## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

"TIJUANA, BC, March 13, 2014 - Residents of Mexicali are calling for they say is the first "Self Defense Groups" in Baja California, that will be made up of a little more than 15,000 inhabitants of different colonias in the city of Mexicali, after pointing out the existence of police elements who are in collusion with criminal groups dedicated to extortion and kidnapping.

With the cry, "I am fed up with thieves and bad police!" these citizens are demanding more security and warn the Mexicali police chief he has one month, which is a result of the increase in the level of crimes they are suffering from.

In an interview via telephone, Manuel Valenzuela, 46 years old said he is the owner of dental offices in the area, and said that along with his neighbors, for the last two months he has been the victim of armed assaults as well as kidnapping threats, on repeated occasions. He said he has files complaints with the Municipal Police, however the ignore him.

Valenzuela said that for this reason he is motivated to create a self defense group, not only due to the crimes of criminals, but also because they are weary of the same municipal policemen who claim supposed infractions to extort them for money.

"The municipal police, instead of protecting the neighborhoods, only come in to extort drivers for infractions which were not committed, for 500 or 600 pesos (US$40 or US$50), and if one does not have money, they go with you to your home so they can get paid. Here and in China, this is called kidnapping," said the citizen.

In the same manner, he says this could be happening due to the implementation of the New Criminal Justice System, "with this system when somebody is arrested even though they can not prove anything, you are set free to taunt them."

The interviewed man said the self defense groups are organized -- according to what he said -- by the residents of the colonias Carvajal, Lázaro Cárdenas, Ejido Coahuila and Maestros Federales. They are passing out flyers and spreading information through the social networks since yesterday to get adherents."

Surgen "Autodefensas" en Mexicali


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

AlanMexicali said:


> "TIJUANA, BC, March 13, 2014 - Residents of Mexicali are calling for they say is the first "Self Defense Groups" in Baja California, that will be made up of a little more than 15,000 inhabitants of different colonias in the city of Mexicali, after pointing out the existence of police elements who are in collusion with criminal groups dedicated to extortion and kidnapping.
> 
> With the cry, "I am fed up with thieves and bad police!" these citizens are demanding more security and warn the Mexicali police chief he has one month, which is a result of the increase in the level of crimes they are suffering from.
> 
> ...


That is sad to hear. I can understand local communities frustration and the attraction of "self defense" groups, but it seems to me to be a really poor substitute for law and order administered by a government agency. Where is the due process when it is local vigilant groups administering "justice". And, frequently, the local groups get a taste of power and turn out to be as bad or worse than the problem they formed to solve.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

PS: What does the mention of Michoacan in the title of this thread have to do with the story? Did I miss something?


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

TundraGreen said:


> PS: What does the mention of Michoacan in the title of this thread have to do with the story? Did I miss something?


Agree the title was very misleading ...... but worrying about what the *Self Defense Groups* might become while the criminals run wild right now is a little unrealistic


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> PS: What does the mention of Michoacan in the title of this thread have to do with the story? Did I miss something?


"SAN QUINTÍN.- A band of heavily armed subjects with AK-47 assault rifles, called "goat horns," apparently from Michoacán, had a gun battle yesterday afternoon near colonia La Candelaria, in the Camalú district, against ministerial police agents. After the gunfight, where it was necessary to call the municipal police, ministerial police and Mexican Army, they managed to stop the suspects. It appears there were six of them who could be linked to the last murders in this part of the city.

Unofficially, it is known that the gun battle between the police and the armed men in colonia La Candelaria, in the Camalú district, happened at approximately 5PM, in a ministerial police operation headed by commander José Luis Mena Jaloma. When the suspects were told to stop as they appeared suspicious, they accelerated instead, and when they were some distance away they started to shoot at the police.

The police called for help from the municipal police in the Camalú, Vicente Guerrero and San Quintín districts, and the night was painted with the sounds of police sirens. In the beginning, it was reported that kilometers up the road, with the help of all the police groups, they managed to arrest seven suspects.

Unofficially it is known that they seized AK-47's and a pistol from the armed men. Based on the actions of those arrested, an investigation was started immediately by the same public minister agent, and he was surrounded by patrol vehicles and Army all terrain vehicles to prevent any type of reprisals.

Hours later, almost as this edition was closing, it turned out that those arrested said they were originally from Michoacán and they were in the San Quintín valley to "clean-up" for the territory so they could take over the area. In addition, it was learned that the men confessed to having participated in two murders, although the authorities have said nothing regarding that. "


2014-03-14 - Balacera contra michoacanos

I read the 2 stories today and got a bit mixed up.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

sparks said:


> Agree the title was very misleading ...... but worrying about what the *Self Defense Groups* might become while the criminals run wild right now is a little unrealistic


Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I see the Self Defense groups as not much different from the lynch mobs that developed in the western US when there was no law and order. The motive is good, but the method is flawed. It is not unlike the idea propounded by some gun advocates that mass shootings will be prevented if everyone in the theater|school is armed. It doesn't solve the problem it just creates chaos and completely obscures who are the good guys and who the bad.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

AlanMexicali said:


> 2014-03-14 - Balacera contra michoacanos
> 
> I read the 2 stories today and got a bit mixed up.


That clarifies it.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Vigilante groups have been around for a very long time in Mexico, and oftentimes execute innocent persons. What's happening in Guerrero, Michoacán and other parts of the country are clear indications of how the federal and other governments have lost control of so much territory in Mexico. Such vigilante groups are obvious signs of fear and loss of power and of a total lack of confidence in the Mexican law enforcement and judicial systems. Pretty clear indications have been that less than 5% of crimes are reported and of those reported maybe 10% result in the arrest of someone. And an even smaller percentage of the arrests result in conviction. Such an environment is one of the situations expats need to consider before relocating to Mexico. In particular, where to relocate to.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Vigilantism is quite commonplace in poverty-stricken Chiapas, especially in rural áreas and among the indigenous population from the Lacandon Jungle to the rural highlands but also in urban ghettos among indigenous religious refugees in hillside slums the Brazilians would deem "favelas" that surround cities such as San Cristóbal de Las Casas. Violent vigilante action often takes place in rural áreas over land and wáter rights which are complex and nebulous issues virtually impossible to discern by outsiders not directly involved in the community disputes often leading to extreme violence perpetrated by one group against another. 

This vigilantism is a carry-over from ancient times long before the Spanish colonialists arrived but in its modern manifestation, it continues as there is no alternative way to arbitrate disputes in a civil manner in many communities, especially many indigenous communities in conflict with each other, as there is no solid and reliable civil authority willing or able to intervene whose decrees will then be respected by the various antagonists. What happens, eventually, when vigilantism becomes the imposing law-of-the-land is that the parties in power use violence to assert their rights whether deserved or not deserved in equity. After a while, when vigilantism prevails as a tool of law-and-order, it is impossible to determine what resulting gruesome and extreme violence is justified to maintain order in the community and and which is self-serving violence carried out by competing factions acting with criminal intent. This is typical of places around the globe where civil authority is non-existent or blatantly corrupt. It is also typical of what one sees in times of civil war whereever that may occur.

One of the problems with rule-of-law imposed by vigilante groups is that, over time, the vigilantes themselves inevitably become corrupted by power and begin to impose their own rules-of-law as defined by unknown arbiters of what should be community moral vales as defined by them. Who knows who these vigilantes really are and what they truly represent but the average citizen eventually learns to shrink in fear at the very notion of challenging these groups because of the uncertain harm that could then come to them and/or their loved ones. Community leaders also shrink in fear because sooner or later these goons may come into some control of the community pursestrings and can make or break citizens´ ability to survive economically within the community

As a native of South Alabama having been raised there in the 1940s and 50s during a time of severe racial turmoil and periodic lynchings, I learned how even the most decent citizens and proponents of racial fairness and general civility can be cowed by both low-life, violent Kluxer gangs and non-violent but assertive racist "civilized" pressure groups such as the then prominent and middle class White Citizens´ Council which was, perhaps, even more insidious in its methods which I will not go into at present except to say that the pressure that organization asserted was primarily financial and social in nature. My experience from those days tells me that eventually vigilante justice becomes as evil as the "evil" it fights and, within time, lynchings are observed by no one valuing his or her economic well being or even life itself. 

There are far too many incidents of violence occurring in Chiapas all the time carried out by one faction for me to begin to cover even a fraction of them here but here is one example. In one hillside slum of many surrounding San Cristóbal, some kid native to and raised in the "favela" had a habit of stealing bicycles repeatedly which may not seem a serious crime to the reader but is a very serious civil affront in a steep hillside slum where bicycles are the only way to commute to work in the city for so many desperately poor people so the "vigilantes", or "citizens´ committee" confronted the kid and warned him that if he stole one more bike, swift retribution was assured but this kid was apparently incorrigible so a short time later he *allegedly* stole another bike and, shortly thereafter, this citizens´ committee or a faction of that committee, identities unknown to this date by anyone willing to talk, poured gasoline over the kid and burned him alive. This is the path upon which we have embarked with "vigilantism". Good luck


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

TundraGreen said:


> Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I see the Self Defense groups as not much different from the lynch mobs that developed in the western US when there was no law and order. The motive is good, but the method is flawed. It is not unlike the idea propounded by some gun advocates that mass shootings will be prevented if everyone in the theater|school is armed. It doesn't solve the problem it just creates chaos and completely obscures who are the good guys and who the bad.


I guess you just wait until you are in the same situation and rape and extortion surrounds you. When Ghost Busters is the only option when they ask ..... "who ya gonna call" ..... you can deicde then


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

vigilentism is scarry.
A few weeks ago there was a rumor in Zinacantan. The rumor was that a girl was missing so the whole town started looking for her and they found her in the company of 2 strangers who also had a knife.
The two people were lucky because half of the men in town wanted to kill them but the other half wanted to put them in jail. The two people were lucky or they would have been dead.
I asked one of the men why this fast justice and the answer was "because we cannot trust the authority to arrest these people or if they arrest them the judges wil let them go so we make sure they do not come back". Sounds good but it is very scary if you are a stranger who is suddenly accused of something. 
The governement was publishing in every paper the fact that the rumors about kidnapping of children was not true.
I do not know if the government was telling the truth but a few weeks ago there was some hysteria going in indigenous villages and that was pretty scary.


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## TooColdTooOften (Feb 27, 2014)

There may be times when "extrajudicial law and order" become necessary evils. If I felt my child was in danger of being kidnapped on his way to school, or if his or my personal safety was at risk, I would embrace vigilantism. The problem seems so very complex. When does this supposed necessary evil become more evil than the evil it was meant to prevent? All I can say is I find it heartbreaking to believe that some communities may benefit from an armed citizenry willing and somewhat able to fight off the bad guys, keeping their people safe from indisputably dangerous foes.

The point about teachers being armed in some U.S. schools is a salient one. I would probably pull my kid out of that school.

[edit] Of course the accused kidnappers should be tried, and not be summarily executed. But as a non-indigenous person I would also not be hanging out with little indigenous girls, regardless of intent. At any rate, I agree, vigilantism can be scary.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

You are absolutely right, do not hang out alone with indigenous kids wether you are indigenous or not, alway make sure a parent or relative knows what you are up to.

About a month ago I felt sick in my stomach when I heard about the cab driver and someone else who was in the taxi because the cab ran into a boy and broke his leg. The passenger and driver were from the same municiaplity and spoke Tseltal so there was no language problem, were beaten up and burnt alive...how sick can it get.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Ignorance is often at the root of such fearful reactions, IMO. Wherever such behavior is exhibited.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Yes ignorance has a lot to do with it and also the fear of the authority to mess around usage and customs but at least in the last case The Cancuc authorities arested a bunch of people. Wether something will happen to them or not is another question. All these killings are tolerated and that is pretty bad.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> Yes ignorance has a lot to do with it and also the fear of the authority to mess around usage and customs but at least in the last case The Cancuc authorities arested a bunch of people. Wether something will happen to them or not is another question. All these killings are tolerated and that is pretty bad.


Does "usos y costmbres" include lynch-mob murder?


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

No it does not but the authorities are staying away from just about any nasty thing going on in indigenous municipalities because the indigenous will take no time turning against the authorities and claiming all kinds of human rights violaions. I think the authorities try not to be invoved but there has been 6 lynching in the last 8 months and they do need to be involved. These lynching are awful. 

Many people in the villages beside being ignorant are also fed up with a system that is dysfunctional so it doesl not take much for a village to turn around and take the side of the lynch mob.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> No it does not but the authorities are staying away from just about any nasty thing going on in indigenous municipalities because the indigenous will take no time turning against the authorities and claiming all kinds of human rights violaions. I think the authorities try not to be invoved but there has been 6 lynching in the last 8 months and they do need to be involved. These lynching are awful.
> 
> Many people in the villages beside being ignorant are also fed up with a system that is dysfunctional so it doesl not take much for a village to turn around and take the side of the lynch mob.


The situation you describe is very depressing. I wonder where the solution lies, if there is one that could change attitudes and behavior.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

yes it is depressing. As far as changing who knows aslong none of the parties listen to each other or trust each other I do not see much change happening.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

2014-03-16 - Surgen Autodefensas en Mexicali, detuvieron a 6 ladrones

"MEXICALI. - Tired of the crime in which the city has sunken into, a group of at least 2,000 families in colonias Lázaro Cárdenas, Carbajal, ex Ejido Coahuila and Maestros Federales formalized a "Civil Self Defense" movement, headed by social activist Juan Manuel Valenzuela.

In their first day of "operations", they reported the arrest of six presumed criminals.

In these áreas they also placed signs in which the elements of the Municipal Public Security Directorate ( DSPM ) and offenders who are not welcome in these areas are cautioned .

"You 're not welcome here police if you come to blackmail motorists , and if you do take the consequences (sic ) " is reporting for municipal agents.

"You are not welcome here thieves and can not steal , and if you do take the consequences " , another message is dedicated to the thieves , both signed by the Civil Movement for Peace and Security of BC , whose logo is a black ribbon surrounded by olive branches.

In an interview with EL MEXICANO , the leader of the movement said that this group of self-defense does not seek to equate emerged in other entities, derived from struggles between groups involved in drug trafficking.

" This is about the society of Mexicali are very tired and hurt by all the security uncertainty there because not only have to fight against thieves or ' Tecolines ' and now we have to fight against bad municipal police we have in the city "he said . [Tecolin: Cachanilla [people of Mexicali] popular term awarded to those drug addicts who steal or beg for money to get their dose of drug.)

Reported that several elements of the group have been diverted from their main functions to safeguard the integrity of good citizens ."


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

The house I had owned in Mexicali for 30 years [ sold in Nov.] is in the colonia "Maestros Estatales" connected to the colonia "Maestros Federales" [mentioned in the above article] , virtually the same neighborhood and is middle class and upper middle class and has many large homes and upscale jewelry, clothing and shoe stores. The neighbors I had were not that average and many have political and financial interests. It has many retired school teachers, retired school directors, retired gov´t. administrators, retired politicians, Dentists, Dr.s, Lawyers, Profesors, etc.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

This is why I cannot see the end of this and why it is depressing. People get together, grab the criminals , turn them over to the justice system and they are let go. The justice system is dysunctional and or crooked so people who start out protecting themselves and their families and have no intentions of becoming goons, get frustrated and then they beat up the criminal and then they kill them. 
As one of the Zinacantan man, I know was telling me," no matter how many times we turn the criminals over to the authorities they are let go so now we kill them, at least they do not come back".
The paper is speaking of a middle class and upper middle class area so maybe the people there will be luckier or will manage to get the criminals put under key for a while but this is how it all starts. Frustrations build up from the lack of support and action from the authorities and then hell breaks loose.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Low levels of education and high rates of corruption/dishonesty ... are two of the circumstances which foster the environments in which the vigilantes feel comfortable/compelled to do what they do. They're two things for Mexico to be ashamed of. 

We see instances of vigilanteism in many parts of the country. The state of Mexico near the D.F. is one such area. 150 years ago vigilanteism was commonplace in the USA, and I don't doubt other nations experienced similar behaviors through the years. 

I don't know at what point a society says it's had enough and behaves differently, but I suspect Mexico is many years away from turning that corner. 

On travel-in-Mexico websites I often caution newbies not to wander about unaccompanied by a local resident in remote areas they're unfamiliar with, because doing so can present risks they're unaware of. Yet, there is always some "expert" (whose actually not traveled much in Mexico, or who assumes everyone is as "expert" as they are) who, IMO, foolishly adopts the "all is well", "you'll be okay as long as you're not selling/buying/using drugs" rhetorical line.

I'm suspicious of the state and Federal government crackdowns on "autodefensa" (self defense) groups right now. Yes, in ways ... their behavior resembles vigilante groups. Seems to me the governments are paying a bit too much attention to the self defense groups that they are the narco terrorists and that the response towards the autodefensa groups isn't proportional. I think that it's when an expat situates him/herself in an area to live where the breakdown of law and order is so complete that this issue needs to rise to the top of the list of things to be concerned about. Folks who stick to the popular-with-expat communities likely have little to concern themselves with (regarding the self defense group issue).

A general response of mine has been that we should avoid contact with Police in Mexico, because rather than operating with a pledge to "serve and protect" they more often than not serve and protect themselves as they abuse the citizenry/residents. I don't think I know of one Mexican with whom I'm familiar who would ever consider calling the police if victimized. Why? They've told me over and over they fear that whatever the criminals hadn't done to them .. the police would once they responded to the call for help (particularly true with comments about home burglaries). But I know that feeling that we have to avoid the Police only adds to the fear and insecurity and the "want" to take the law into our own hands.

Anyhow, this is an important current events topic throughout much of Mexico - the self defense/autodefensa and vigilante groups. Important, too, for expats to discuss.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Well said, Longford.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Longford said:


> A general response of mine has been that we should avoid contact with Police in Mexico, because rather than operating with a pledge to "serve and protect" they more often than not serve and protect themselves as they abuse the citizenry/residents. I don't think I know of one Mexican with whom I'm familiar who would ever consider calling the police if victimized. Why? They've told me over and over they fear that whatever the criminals hadn't done to them .. the police would once they responded to the call for help (particularly true with comments about home burglaries). But I know that feeling that we have to avoid the Police only adds to the fear and insecurity and the "want" to take the law into our own hands.


Well said. I would only add that I, and many others, have the same attitude towards police in the United States. It may not always be justified, but it is an ingrained response. In fact, the answer to the question: Does the presence of a police officer/car make you feel safer or more threatened? tells you something about a person's experience in life.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> Well said. I would only add that I, and many others, have the same attitude towards police in the United States. It may not always be justified, but it is an ingrained response. In fact, the answer to the question: Does the presence of a police officer/car make you feel safer or more threatened? tells you something about a person's experience in life.


The only probelm I see with not having the pólice out is your insurance carrier needs a pólice report # to process your claim as is the same here. 

As far as pólice presence I feel nothing special. It is not a real issue in the US when they are doing things or here except when they are all over the place here on private property, example shopping malls, and stopping people and questioning them for weeks at a time. This bugged me a bit. Otherwise carry on and find the bad guys you have photos of.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

I once had a nice encounter with a couple of young cops in my neighborhood. They stopped me when I was coming back from the supermarket and inquired if they could ask me a couple of questions. They seemed nice enough, so I agreed. They wanted to know if I felt safe in my neighborhood and if I'd had any problems with break-ins or robberies. I told them that I felt quite safe in my barrio and had never had any problems. They thanked me for my time and gave me a card with contact information in case I needed to call the local police station if something bad did happen. They even gave me the name and direct phone number of their boss. I think this was part of a local campaign to beef up security in my area.


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## JoanneR2 (Apr 18, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> I once had a nice encounter with a couple of young cops in my neighborhood. They stopped me when I was coming back from the supermarket and inquired if they could ask me a couple of questions. They seemed nice enough, so I agreed. They wanted to know if I felt safe in my neighborhood and if I'd had any problems with break-ins or robberies. I told them that I felt quite safe in my barrio and had never had any problems. They thanked me for my time and gave me a card with contact information in case I needed to call the local police station if something bad did happen. They even gave me the name and direct phone number of their boss. I think this was part of a local campaign to beef up security in my area.


I've had that happen to me recently in Condesa. I think they might be on a charm offensive. Still wouldn't turn to the police in a time of crisis though. All mu Mexican friends tell me to avoid them if at all possible....


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> I once had a nice encounter with a couple of young cops in my neighborhood. They stopped me when I was coming back from the supermarket and inquired if they could ask me a couple of questions. They seemed nice enough, so I agreed. They wanted to know if I felt safe in my neighborhood and if I'd had any problems with break-ins or robberies. I told them that I felt quite safe in my barrio and had never had any problems. They thanked me for my time and gave me a card with contact information in case I needed to call the local police station if something bad did happen. They even gave me the name and direct phone number of their boss. I think this was part of a local campaign to beef up security in my area.


The neighborhood association in my neighborhood has occasional meetings that the police attend. The police listen to complaints and encourage people to call them when something happens.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> I once had a nice encounter with a couple of young cops in my neighborhood. They stopped me when I was coming back from the supermarket and inquired if they could ask me a couple of questions. They seemed nice enough, so I agreed. They wanted to know if I felt safe in my neighborhood and if I'd had any problems with break-ins or robberies. I told them that I felt quite safe in my barrio and had never had any problems. They thanked me for my time and gave me a card with contact information in case I needed to call the local police station if something bad did happen. They even gave me the name and direct phone number of their boss. I think this was part of a local campaign to beef up security in my area.


Interesting. 

I was out late at night with my friends near our hotel in the área by the Monumento when there in DF 2 weeks ago looking for a hambuger. We asked around and someone pointed us to a corner where the hambuger lady has her street cart setup.

It was close to our hotel but on a dark side street surrounded by closed for the night office buildings. As I waited there I noticed a sign on a pole that said: "In case of an emergency push this button". I looked up and there was a video camera housing and an antenae. The camera was pointing down to where you would be standing while pushing the button. I have never seen anything like that elsewhere. Are they common there?


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