# wrongly refused visa



## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

*fiancé visa very urgent*

Fiancé visa has been refused on the grounds that I do not meet the financial requirement. It takes notice of my savings (30k +) which are combined with my pay slips (over a thousand each month) but it says I haven't provided evidence of any earnings even though my pay slips are there. I will appeal. Does it cost anything to appeal. Please help. Thank you.


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

It states that I have only provided bank statement and a letter of employment but no pay slips but I DID. How much is the cosy of appeal? Surely I shouldn't need to appeal for someone's careless mistake? Are there any numbers I can call to actually talk to a person about this? Please help. Thanks.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Make a complaint under https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/uk-visas-and-immigration/about/complaints-procedure
If you did provide the required number of payslips in the correct format, then they may reverse their decision quickly. Your complaint is passed to the visa office that processed your application for comment/action.
I suggest also you enter an appeal (£80 fee) in case you don't hear about your complaint within 28 days allowed for lodging an appeal. If you get satisfaction, you can then withdraw your appeal.


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

Di you know approximately how long the appeal will take? The application was said to be around 3 months but took just over a month for us. Is there any time period for how long appeals take? I imagine it will be quite straightforward in our circumstances seeing they just missed the pay slips even though they were there.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

If it's overturned at ECM review stage, it can be a month or two. If it's reversed after a complaint, it can be a matter of weeks. A full appeal going to the tribunal in UK can take a year or more, as there is a backlog.


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

Sorry, what is an ECM review stage? Also, the complaint I gave didn't have our exact information in it so I don't think they could know who it was exactly. Do I need to complain again but give all of our information including names, visa processing location etc or will they get back to me to ask for all of this? And as for the appeal which takes a year, is that the appeal which is referred to in the refusal letter (where they say the application was refused, but we have the choice to appeal against the decision). Thanks.


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

Also, in my complaint I said about how the payslips were actually there, when they said they were not. I have been reading through my decision letter more carefully and they said that neither the pay slips or the bank statements showing the money going into my account were there. They both were (they even sent it all back to us, I am so frustrated with the carelessness of the individual who made the decision of our visa) so I am thinking, do I need to send another email to complain which says that both were there and give a more detailed explanation of our case? Or will they get back to me for more info. Thanks.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

When you complain, you must give your full details such as application reference, date, which VAC, full name, type of application etc. If you haven't, send another. If it was a genuine mistake, they will correct it without delay. 
ECM review is when senior visa officer goes over your application and the original decision - the first stage of appeal process. Tribunal means the actual meeting presided by a judge in UK to decide on your appeal, which can take a year.


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

Okay I will write a better complaint. I am planning on including picture attachments of the payslips and statements which they missed. All of the statements and pay slips are returned but some of the statements returned are original, some are the photocopies. The photocopies have no back to them to show transactions of money going in or out. Will they still have those originals which they did not return in the application centre in manilla? Thanks.


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

I would also like to ask for your opinion on whether it is best for me to send the pictures in with the email or just explain? (now that they have returned the payslips they'll have no idea if my income amount). And also whether they will have my original bank statement which haven't been returned with them still. Thanks.


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

So sorry to keep posting but my fiancé has sent me photographic evidence of the payslips and statements showing the pay going into my account and I always see that they all look like originals as they all show the pay going in every month (which is what matters) so, that's one less thing to worry about. All my question would be now is should I send these pictures in my email. Thanks.


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## HatakeSage (Feb 4, 2015)

Hm? You're sending off photos of it, and not the original? They're trained to spot fakes, so be careful with that. You should have evidence from the bank, and stamped.

If I read incorrectly, you can ignore this.


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

I have posted on this forum explaining that my fiancé's visa was refused because they said we didn't give payslips and bank statements showing the money going in whenever fact we did. I emailed the complaints department and received an email back basically repeating themselves saying that he didn't give them but he did! I am so frustrated! I emailed them back saying that he did include themand we clearly shouldn't be expected to pay for someone else's mistake and now it seems like we're going round in circles. I really don't think we should have to rely on the appeal and we're only considering it as a last resort but this isn't our fault! any help???


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

Update: they replied to my email with the exact same message as their first email. Please help!


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

In one of your earlier postings you said that the bank statements were going to be out of date taking into consideration the time taken to send your documents to Singapore.

Did the refusal letter actually say the statements and payslips were not there, or that they were not acceptable for the application.

Maybe you could attach a copy of the refusal letter.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

I've merged your threads. Please don't open new threads on the same topic. It will be easier for people to help you if they can follow your full story.


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

When we thought our statements were out of date we postponed applying until we had recent statements which were then sent. They say we didn't send them at all even though we did. They even returned them to us! I seriously cannot believe this is happening.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

pigeonfox said:


> When we thought our statements were out of date we postponed applying until we had recent statements which were then sent. They say we didn't send them at all even though we did. They even returned them to us! I seriously cannot believe this is happening.


...... and you have sent your complaint to the address and the name of the ECO on the refusal letter?


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

Yep I have sent all the info with all the dates and reference numbers and names. I keep getting the same response. I could never have imagined that after all our hard work something like this would happen. It's not even our fault. :/


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

pigeonfox said:


> Yep I have sent all the info with all the dates and reference numbers and names. I keep getting the same response. I could never have imagined that after all our hard work something like this would happen. It's not even our fault. :/


Could you possibly scan in the refusal letter?


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

Really all it says is that I did not provided evidence that I meet the income threshold ( payslips and bank statements showing salary payments being made into the account) then the email I received after complaining said the exact same thing like they aren't even listening. I did provide then but somehow the entry clearance officer missed them. I can't belive how much stress this has caused us and all because of their careless mistake.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Have you appealed as I've advised you to in addition to complaining? There is a time limit of 28 days. It now requires ECM review with all the evidence available, the first stage of appeal procedure. You can appeal online (details in the refusal letter) and you can send evidence in support by email attachment or fax (don't send originals). Here you can send scanned copies of payslips and bank statement, stressing that they have been sent with original application and have been returned. With luck, they will reverse the decision but there is no guarantee. It comes down to your word against ECO who originally processed your application. You may wait a month or so for response. If ECM refuses to override, then the case goes to tribunal and a year's wait is probable.


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## OldPro (Feb 18, 2015)

If you earn 1000 GBP per month as you state and have 30k GBP in savings, then my first question would be is that enough or do you not meet the requirement?

According to the calculator here: uk spouse visa financial requirement | My CMS , with an income of only 1k per month you need savings of 60k to meet the requirement. 

The 'income threshold' is 18.6K (which you don't earn) or if you earn 12k (which you do), the 'income threshold' would be 12k salary plus 60k savings.

So as far as I can see, you do NOT in fact meet the requirements. It has nothing to do with bank statements or pay slips, it's your savings that aren't high enough.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

OP needs £32,500 in savings (18600 - 12000 multiplied by 2.5 plus 16000).


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

It states in the financial requirement info that, with 33k (I have just over 33k) i need to earn at least 11,800 a year. I earn more than a thousand a month so regardless I will meet the requirements. Thanks for confirming Joppa, I'd have been doubting myself and worrying otherwise.


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## OldPro (Feb 18, 2015)

Yes, my mistake, the calculator I linked wants you to input your annual salary, I took it as monthly salary and inputed 1k. So with 12k annual you need 32,500 savings to meet the income threshold. 

Interestingly, looking for a phone number in Manila to call, I came across the following.
https://britishembassymanila.clickbook.net/sub/britishembassymanila

It's for making appointments but does list a phone number at the top of the page. I always try to actually speak to a person when I have a problem and looked to see if there is a number than can be called.

What's interesting is the statement: "IMPORTANT: The Consular Section is unable to answer visa-related queries."

So that then raises the question, who are you e-mailing to and who is answering you? Do you know if you have had any actual contact with the ECO in Manila? Or are you e-mailing the FCO in the UK and they are sending you their standard boiler plate responses based on the ECO in Manila having denied your application?


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

I'm emailing from the complaints link that Joppa posted on here. I tried speaking to the embassy in manilla and they said that I can't speak to an entry clearance officer only email. it must be the correct email if Joppa posted it. They don't seem to be returning my emails either now so I guess no more waiting but will have to appeal. It's so unfair and I never could have imagined that they would make such an error :/


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

We won't wait any longer and will appeal asap, just wondering about the 28 day limit, if you are appealing online (which we will do) is it OK as long as you have applied online before the 28 says are up? Just checking if there's anything we'll need to actually send off (documents) Which would take time to post. Thanks.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Just online application. You can email scanned documents or fax later to Leicester where the tribunal is based.


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

Thanks. Will it provide the email address we send them to when we do the online appeal?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

OldPro said:


> So that then raises the question, who are you e-mailing to and who is answering you? Do you know if you have had any actual contact with the ECO in Manila? Or are you e-mailing the FCO in the UK and they are sending you their standard boiler plate responses based on the ECO in Manila having denied your application?


If you want to know, email complaint sent under the complaint section first goes to London, and if they think it merits a response, it's redirected to the decision making centre (in this case Manila) that processed your application. While it may not be answered by the actual ECO that handled your case, it will be dealt with by the management so there is a good chance of being upheld if you have a valid case. But you can only send complaint for some basic mistakes or oversight, such as spelling errors or wrong dates on the visa (or dispute over whether a particular document has been submitted or not), and not about interpretation of evidence submitted.


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

Hmm. They replied to me just repeating themselves that he hadn't given the payslips and bank statements when I complained. I then replied again saying that they don't seem to be understanding wheat I have clearly stated - that he did give them and it's been a mistake that they've been missed. They didn't reply to that email. not sure if they're ignoring it or wha. Also, we don't have a scanner so I don't know how to scan in the documents. Will photos that clearly show the info do?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Maybe, but most photos are too small and get blurred when you use magnification (software manipulation).


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

We managed to scan the documents now I'm completing the appeal, just wondering where do I attach the scanned documents? Or is emailing them separate? I feel hesitant to click 'finish ' as I haven't attached them anywhere unless it's separate or happens afterwards, not sure how to email them to Leicester.


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

I completed the appeal and now it wants me to send evidence to Leicester in the post. It doesn't give an email alternative?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Use this link to appeal online: https://immigrationappealsonline.justice.gov.uk/IACFees


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

That's the site I used and have completed the appeal and payment but at the end it asks for the supporting documents to be mailed to Leicester and doesn't give an email Only postal address. Do you know the email we could use instead?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

No, or you can fax. Send from UK to save on charges. Procedure on how to appeal changed late last year.


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

The documents are with my fiancé in Singapore. Do you have to send originals? If so that's going to be quite a rush.


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

Also I don't know what sending a fax is let alone how to do it! Are my scanned documents good to use? Not sure how to go about sending them.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

No originals should be sent - this can delay your appeal. I suggest your fiancé email you the scanned documents, which you print out and post to FTT in Leicester.


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

Ah brilliant, thanks so much for the advise, I don't know how I'd cope without this site!


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

It states after you appeal that the notice of decision and all other evidence needs to be sent. What's the notice of decision? the only thing I can think of it being is the refusal letter my fiancé received in Singapore. If that's the case then he has it and I won't be able to send it from UK.


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

Or will he need to scan his refusal letter as well? I'm not sure if that's what it means by notice of decision. Anyhow much of it? Every page? I wish they'd make it more clear :/


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

Hi, after I complained I had an email from an entry clearance manager who said they will exceptionally allow me to send scanned versions of the payslips and bank statements and they will take a second look. I still haven't heard anything back since I sent the email containing the documents. I'm guessing they don't work weekends and by Monday it will be exactly a month since I sent the email. I'm starting to worry what if they have forgotten, or missed my email somehow, or something along those as it seems like an awfully long time to do something that should take only a few minutes? I am thinking should I email them again and ask for them to confirm they are definitely reviewing the documents? Or is this a normal time frame for this sort of thing? Thanks.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

A month is nothing. They can legitimately take 6 weeks or so before reaching a decision. You can certainly query about the progress, but be polite.


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

Thanks so much for the advice Joppa


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

The decision was finally overturned!!!  My fiancé has already given in his passport to the visa application centre in Singapore for them to send to Manila today. Any idea how long it usually takes to be returned? Thanks


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## pigeonfox (Apr 13, 2015)

Hi, I just have a question now that the spouse visa will be our next task. Once my fiancé returns to uk on a fiancé visa and we get married, can we apply for the spouse visa straight away after we get married? For example, if we got married within the first month, can we also then afterwards apply for spouse visa within the first month as long as we are married. Thanks.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes. Remember you still need to produce evidence that you meet the financial and accommodation requirement, as well as your marriage certificate.


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