# Is this a real thing or an early April Fool?



## Tricky Dicky

_attestation d'accueil_


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## LesFroggitts

It's a real thing - but the contentious part is when/where/who/how it is needed.


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## Crabtree

Attestation d'accueil


Vous souhaitez héberger un étranger non européen pour un séjour touristique de moins de 3 mois ? Vous devez demander une attestation d'accueil auprès de votre mairie. L'attestation est délivrée si vous remplissez certaines conditions. L'attestation doit obligatoirement être validée par la mairie...




www.service-public.fr





It is a "requirement" for non EU nationals entering France and some other EU countries(I know Italy has a similar system where the passport details of the guest has to be passed to the police) to prove where they will be staying eg produce a hotel/campsite booking or if they are staying at a private house to have an attestation As is usual in France it is down to the individual border officer to enforce it ie they may or may not want to see a bit of paper 
Probably Greece has something similar but no one really bothers about it


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## Tricky Dicky

So how would a border check distinguish between a bog standard tourist or a family member? It’s all a bit intrusive.


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## LesFroggitts

Tricky Dicky said:


> So how would a border check distinguish between a bog standard tourist or a family member? It’s all a bit intrusive.


There is no real difference - visa (or visa exemption) rules would apply in both cases.


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## Tricky Dicky

Tourists on their 2 week holiday need a visa now?


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## boilerman

Tricky Dicky said:


> So how would a border check distinguish between a bog standard tourist or a family member? I*t’s all a bit intrusive*.


*Its all a bit post brexit *I'm afraid, just hoops we have to jump through


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## LesFroggitts

Tricky Dicky said:


> Tourists on their 2 week holiday need a visa now?


No-one has said that. Presuming you're talking about UK passport holders then 2 weeks would come under the exemption rules of 90/180 days (aka Schengen).


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## Tricky Dicky

I still don’t understand the perceived difference between someone visiting for a holiday or someone visiting family/friends. Everyone is allowed to stay for 3 months regardless, surely.


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## Clic Clac

boilerman said:


> *Its all a bit post brexit *I'm afraid, just hoops we have to jump through


Sunlit Uplands, mate. Sunlit Uplands.


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## EuroTrash

Tricky Dicky said:


> I still don’t understand the perceived difference between someone visiting for a holiday or someone visiting family/friends. Everyone is allowed to stay for 3 months regardless, surely.


You are making it far more complicated than it is.
In terms of border control/immigration rules there is no difference between visiting and staying with friends and visiting but not staying with friends. You are subject to exactly the same rules.As you say, as a Brit you can stay in Schengen for up to 90 days in 180 without a visa. However because you have not applied for a visa you have not given France an address where you can be contacted while you are in France. Therefore France has this attestation on its statute books, so that if a person entering France is flagged up at the border as a potential overstayer, or a potential threat of some kind, it has legal grounds for asking for their attestation. Or it may decide to do spot checks from time to time. Basically it is so that it can keep tabs on visitors when it wants to. 
I think it's called "controlling the borders". Most if not all countries do it to a greater or lesser extent. In fact that one of the reasons for Brexit wasn't it?


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## Tricky Dicky

boilerman said:


> *Its all a bit post brexit *I'm afraid, just hoops we have to jump through


Just googled it and apparently it’s been in place for donkey’s years - way before Brexit or even the EEC!


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## LesFroggitts

Tricky Dicky said:


> Just googled it and apparently it’s been in place for donkey’s years - way before Brexit or even the EEC!


For non-EU nationals, yes it was always in place, but the UK passport holders were then EU members - seems they are no longer deemed to be so


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## boilerman

Clic Clac said:


> Sunlit Uplands, mate. Sunlit Uplands.


I'm sure I tried that once, but I had work the next day


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## Bevdeforges

The Service Public site spells out who is subject to this:


> L'attestation d'accueil concerne *tout étranger* souhaitant séjourner moins de 3 mois en France, dans le cadre d'une visite privée ou familiale.


Normally, when arriving from outside the EU as a tourist, you can be asked for where you will be staying - which for most tourists is a hotel, campsite or other "commercial" tourist accommodation. It doesn't mean that you will always be asked for this information (though those coming in by air certainly used to be asked - on that little yellow card you had to fill out). Just that the border people have every right to ask you to provide the information on entry. For those staying with friends or family, this is what they expect to see when they ask.


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## EuroTrash

Tricky Dicky said:


> Just googled it and apparently it’s been in place for donkey’s years - way before Brexit or even the EEC!


Yes but it is only since Brexit that it started (re)applying to Brits.
I remember it from when I was a kid. We used to get the Newhaven Dieppe ferry and there were announcements telling all British and other non French citizens to go to the purser's office to complete what IIRC they called a "landing slip" which I think meant writing the dates and address of your stay. I think you had to hand this in at passport control.
The word "purser" must have entered the vocabulary of all kids of my generation who travelled on ferries, at a far earlier age than it probably did in the EU days! I used to hear it a lot on those ferries and don't think I've ever heard it used since...


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## Bevdeforges

Oh, looky what I just found online








This is the UK's landing card for non-UK nationals. It specifically asks for your "Address in the UK" which is the same thing. 
I did find the old French landing card:








But it has always been ambiguous what they really wanted in the "Domicile" line. I think they actually wanted where you would be domiciled in France, not your home address.


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## Tricky Dicky

Seems France is more paranoid about its borders than the UK! The only reason I brought it up is that another forum people are being charged up to €60 per person for the privilege.


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## Bevdeforges

Though you're right in that this is an OLD requirement. I remember when I first arrived here, there was quite some concern about the requirement that foreign guests in private homes had to be "registered" with the local mairie. At that time, the problem was that the requirement was there, but there was no agreed upon procedure for carrying out the required "registration."


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## BackinFrance

Tricky Dicky said:


> Just googled it and apparently it’s been in place for donkey’s years - way before Brexit or even the EEC!


All the information is in the link provided earlier (in French but you can use a translation tool). The purpose is to ensure people don't arrive and live on the street and to ensure that health care costs don't fall on the French state, among other things. Ordinary tourists would have hotel bookings, funds or credit cards to cover their stay etc. The content of the link was verified by the government early last year. 

As mentioned by someone else, you may in practice not be asked to show your attestation when entering France, but you might be. The French authorities including the police could also ask you to show it during your stay. 

Rest assured that it complies with French law and checking that would have been part of last year's verification process.

It has nothing to do with Brexit etc.


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## Crabtree

Basically no one has an automatic right to enter another country unless certain conditions apply eg EU member or seeking asylum etc.Most countries however recognise that citizens from some countries are likely to want to enter their borders for short periods of time for holidays or to visit family-hence the 90 day waiver-but one of the conditions is satisfying the border police that you are not going to disappear or there is some other motive such as crime or people trafficking hence the need to have ready a confirmation of a destination or as in Italy your arrival has to be reported along with copies of passports etc
Remember that since Brexit the UK is subject to the same rules as every other non EU country


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## Barriej

Tricky Dicky said:


> Seems France is more paranoid about its borders than the UK! The only reason I brought it up is that another forum people are being charged up to €60 per person for the privilege.


Just jumping in from the Spanish part of the forum.
There were all sorts of questions about this last year in our bit.
The Spanish Police decided that you had to get a form validated with the 'visitors' names, passport etc and it was being priced at around €60. You then got a visitors cert that 'allowed' them to enter.

At the end it was decided that this was something they could ask for but were not going to do. However this has been on the books for years but it was up to each individual EU member country to apply or not (even to other EU citizens). Its not a Brexit thing just something that has been added to the long list of encumbrances that Uk passport holders have to suffer with.

If you want all you have to do is draft a letter of invitation with all of the details of the family members, your address and ID number (for us in Spain its either TIE or NIE). If asked at the border you hand this over.

And its been in operation for years, I used to work for a Uk company with its head quarters in Italy and even in 2015 had to hand my passport over at reception in the hotel, also did the same thing in Turkey in 2019 when I went there for a job. Been doing it for years in Africa, the US and Canada.
And from memory when the Italian used to come to the Uk to help on installs, all the Hotels we stayed at asked to see passports etc. 
Supposedly if you run a B&B in Spain (and Im assuming elsewhere) you are supposed to have a register which details all of your guests info. Just like in the old days before internet.


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## ALKB

Tricky Dicky said:


> Seems France is more paranoid about its borders than the UK! The only reason I brought it up is that another forum people are being charged up to €60 per person for the privilege.


When my husband was still a non-EEA national, he certainly had to fill in landing cards when travelling to the UK, we were asked where we would be staying by border control and our friends' home address was noted on the card.

Similar to what one has to do when travelling to the USA. Or Australia. Or New Zealand. Or just about any country I have visited outside the EU.


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## ALKB

Barriej said:


> Just jumping in from the Spanish part of the forum.
> There were all sorts of questions about this last year in our bit.
> The Spanish Police decided that you had to get a form validated with the 'visitors' names, passport etc and it was being priced at around €60. You then got a visitors cert that 'allowed' them to enter.
> 
> At the end it was decided that this was something they could ask for but were not going to do. However this has been on the books for years but it was up to each individual EU member country to apply or not (even to other EU citizens). Its not a Brexit thing just something that has been added to the long list of encumbrances that Uk passport holders have to suffer with.
> 
> If you want all you have to do is draft a letter of invitation with all of the details of the family members, your address and ID number (for us in Spain its either TIE or NIE). If asked at the border you hand this over.
> 
> And its been in operation for years, I used to work for a Uk company with its head quarters in Italy and even in 2015 had to hand my passport over at reception in the hotel, also did the same thing in Turkey in 2019 when I went there for a job. Been doing it for years in Africa, the US and Canada.
> And from memory when the Italian used to come to the Uk to help on installs, all the Hotels we stayed at asked to see passports etc.
> Supposedly if you run a B&B in Spain (and Im assuming elsewhere) you are supposed to have a register which details all of your guests info. Just like in the old days before internet.


When I was working for a Swiss hotel chain in Geneva, police came personally round every single night (!) to collect the 'foreigners' registration forms' and we got a stern talking to or a pointed phone call if details were not complete or hand writing was too messy.

At two memorable occasions, police came back, more or less stormed a specific hotel room and arrested the guests.

Also, one time a person reported as missing was found.


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## dextcorp

ALKB said:


> Similar to what one has to do when travelling to the USA. Or Australia. Or New Zealand. Or just about any country I have visited outside the EU.


Actually some of these countries are moving in the direction of removing this requirement (well, now with Covid it's the opposite, with an additional form/declaration to be filled out usually). Austr and NZ got rid of "departure form" quite some time ago. Arrival card will be reduced to Customs Declaration soon (less fields to complete)


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