# moving to greece



## debar (Oct 30, 2011)

Hi
I'm new to this and I'm just looking for some advice. We are think of selling up and moving to Greece. We want to rent a 2 bed property.
Can anyone give me details about cost of living and opening bank account in Greece.

Thanks


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

Hi debar, welcome to the forum!

Cost of living varies rather dramatically based on two main factors: geographic location, and age of the property. 

The cheapest areas are those in the "eparchia", i.e., not Attica or Thessaloniki and surrounding area. Islands are more expensive than the mainland, even the ones with low rent, because of the cost of fuel and food.

There are many places in Greece where you can find a newish apartment for around €150/month. However, if you want to live in a "nicer" area like central Athens, Thessaloniki, or one of the "luxury" islands, you might find yourself paying closer to €700/month. 

On the same block, two apartments that are the same size could go for €350/month (1980 building) to €480 (2008 building).

Gasoline is around €1.67/liter in the majority of the country, a little less in the big cities, closer to €1.80 on the islands.

A kilo of flour is €0.57 at the cheapest I've seen recently for a private label, around €1.10 for a recognized brand name. A kilo of potatoes is around €0.45. A kilo of beef is around €8.50-10.00, depending on the cut.

A meal in a "standard" sit-down taverna restaurant for two is around €18 for a party of two in most of Greece. Closer to €25 in big cities or on islands.

A ticket on the Athens metro is €1.40 (I think). 

A month of internet and telephone service is around €30-40 depending on extras.

A newspaper is around €1.50.

Most people find that they can scrape by on an income of around €1000 to support a two-person family. Not easy, but most of us seem to be doing it. If you have €1500, you'll be a lot more comfortable. There are plenty of our neighbors getting by on less than €1000/month as well.

Do you have any idea where in Greece you're interested in moving? The traditionally "ex-pat" communities are the most expensive, FYI.


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## osteopam (Oct 31, 2011)

Hiya,

I'm new to the forum but not to Greece. I do agree with WKA's post except to say that the tax, equivalent to VAT, on the islands and rural areas is cheaper than in Athens or the cities so there are some savings to be made living out in the wilds.

xx


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

Osteopam, from my experience living on a small island for 2 years, there is no savings whatsoever for the smaller islands. For Lesvos, since it is a very large island, it is good to hear that the savings is real. 

On smaller islands, the ONLY thing that is (marginally) cheaper is medicine, but all food, gasoline, and consumer goods were significantly more expensive (sometimes by several times over) on the island than they are on the mainland. Example: I paid €1.85 for gasoline when it was €1.60 on the mainland. I paid €0.45 last year for a kilo of flour in Athens where the cheapest bulk flour (out of a big open bag, not even packaged) was €1.20 on the island. 

The ONLY place where the lower VAT will help you is on fixed price goods like medicine. Sorry to say it, but I stand by it.

Also if you use less common products, like whole grain rice, you will pay a HUGE premium on smaller islands. Whole grain rice wasn't sold on my island but whole wheat pasta, for example, was twice the price that it was on the mainland, and was only available in one store in one variety. The cheapest box of cereal was around €4.90.

To make it worse, small islands have no chain supermarkets, so there are no sales, no store brands (private labels), and no "cash back" cards or deals. You pay full price every time and there is no choice to buy a cheaper brand. My island had three mini markets, no supermarket, and one butcher/green grocer. They didn't run sales EVER. We spent hundreds on groceries when we had a chance to get off the island, but transporting stuff and obviously refrigeration is a huge problem. 

To me the cost of living is the major drawback of the smaller islands. I have never lived on one of the larger islands so it's good to hear that it really is quite different. I would expect prices in Crete to be the same as the mainland (except gasoline, which is more expensive), but didn't know about Lesvos.


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## debar (Oct 30, 2011)

Hi
Thanks for replying, the costs are what I was expecting which is good news. We are thinking of the main land probadly around Kalalmata, we have been to this area on numerous ocasions.We have been looking on-line at rental properties - do you think we would find cheaper with a real estate office? 





wka said:


> Hi debar, welcome to the forum!
> 
> Cost of living varies rather dramatically based on two main factors: geographic location, and age of the property.
> 
> ...


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

I think you're making a great choice. Kalamata, since it's on the mainland and is a medium city, has a relatively low cost of living. In addition to that, it has warm winters, which will reduce your expenses even further. 

In my experience and in the experience of pretty much everyone I know, you get much better results from looking "on the ground" in the area you're interested in, working with a local real estate agent but also just asking around. Since you're renting and not buying, you have the luxury of moving on if the property isn't what you wanted. Most people in your position rent a place for a month or two and use that time to search for a more permanent place. 

I have found good rental properties that ended in me signing a lease using a real estate agent, word of mouth via friends, and just walking around looking for ads on telephone poles! Our current home is in the latter category in fact. 

Except in Athens and Thessaloniki, forget about newspaper ads. Landlords just simply don't put ads in the paper (including online "newspapers") for other cities and areas. It's not worth your time. Especially avoid any websites that are directed at expats - here you will overpay by a LOT, maybe 2x or 3x more than what you should pay.

For a 2 bedroom, 80-85 sq meter apartment in Kalamata, while I've never lived there, off the top of my head I'd estimate you should be able to find a good place for around €280-320. It will depend on a lot of things: age of building, location in the city, whether it has individual or building controlled heating, etc.


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## debar (Oct 30, 2011)

Thanks so much for all the info It really helps, except I should be working not check for info  It good to know we are looking in the right area's and the money we are looking at is about right


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## osteopam (Oct 31, 2011)

I'm sure you're right about the smaller islands; things are dear enough here, especially petrol. We are lucky enough to have a Lidl and a couple of other decent sized supermarkets with cash back cards etc. I wouldn't say they're cheap but at least better than the local minimarkets. 
I think our savings are really in the cost of electricity and water. Rents outside the tourist spots are very cheap too. 

Very wise to rent I think. We have a lot of folk come here and fall in love with the place and buy straight away and it rarely works. I rented for a year before I bought.


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## wka (Sep 18, 2009)

Osteopam, all good points. We ended up overpaying severely for electricity on our little island because the poor quality of the housing and the fact that there was no other heating option aside from running a space heater, meant we burned a TON of electricity just to stay not-freezing during the winter months. We even had one of those tiny mini-fridges and a mini-oven but it didn't matter - we were paying hundreds and hundreds in electricity because the cold north wind just blew right into our junky Cycladic house. This is another thing that a renter should pay attention to, so I'm glad it came up. Quality of construction plays a HUGE role in your energy costs. Also it may be worth looking harder to find a place with a solar hot water heater, or at least a boiler. Most landlords don't put solar hot water heaters in rental properties but you can find them sometimes if the landlord used or intends to use the property for his own use at some point.


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## PVA (Nov 20, 2011)

debar said:


> Thanks so much for all the info It really helps, except I should be working not check for info  It good to know we are looking in the right area's and the money we are looking at is about right


Hi Debar

I think that you have a wealth of advice from other EPAT forum colleagues already, but just to add a little more, we moved to the beautiful island of Kefalonia in the summer and a two bed detached bungalow costs around 400 euros a month to rent with water costing next to nothing and electricity bills and heating oil costs in line with the UK. As other members say, general shopping is quite expensive with tha absence of supermarket offers except Lidl. If I offer one piece of advice it is most definately to rent a property while you settle into your new country giving you time to get to know local areas and their dynamics well before making major purchase commitments. In the current climate it also protects you from new property taxes being levied on property owners. If you require any assistance with removal to mainland Greece then I have contacts that may be useful to you - don't hesitate to ask. I have absolutely no regrets about the move and renting for the forseeable future and love the island in which I now live.
Kind Regards
PVA


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