# Pls. advice me about working in singapore.



## arnoldpaquingan

Hello everyone!


I am from Philippines and I'm planning to find a job in Singapore as a Computer Technician. I already had an experience for 2yrs here in the Philippines on that field. I already have my passport, and I'm planning to go there on my own.


Could anyone help me on what else I must do? Or what other documents I have to secure before going there?



Thanks!


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## oz_sg10

The best option is to be offered a job and the employer should be willing to sponsor your work pass from overseas



arnoldpaquingan said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> 
> I am from Philippines and I'm planning to find a job in Singapore as a Computer Technician. I already had an experience for 2yrs here in the Philippines on that field. I already have my passport, and I'm planning to go there on my own.
> 
> 
> Could anyone help me on what else I must do? Or what other documents I have to secure before going there?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!


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## simonsays

oz_sg10:

in Singapore, EMPLOYERS ARE THE ONES WHO ARE ALLOWED TO APPLY FOR WORK PASS .. read up on Ministry of Manpower Singapore

As with the current political climate and tightening of rules, it is tough to get a lower paying job, unless the person has a degree. .. or the pay must be higher enough .. and the experience must count .. 

Good luck


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## oz_sg10

ecureilx said:


> oz_sg10:
> 
> in Singapore, EMPLOYERS ARE THE ONES WHO ARE ALLOWED TO APPLY FOR WORK PASS .. read up on Ministry of Manpower Singapore
> 
> As with the current political climate and tightening of rules, it is tough to get a lower paying job, unless the person has a degree. .. or the pay must be higher enough .. and the experience must count ..
> 
> Good luck


but is it not what I said? that the employer should be offering him a job and willing to sponsor his work pass


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## simonsays

ok, Now, this is where Aussies get is mixed up .. Singapore has NO SPONSORSHIP .. EMPLOYERS GIVES YOU A JOB AND GETS YOU THE PASS .. and that is a far call from "SPONSORSHIP" which exists in other countries .. 

If you are sure both mean the same .. good .. 

Cheers


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## oz_sg10

ecureilx said:


> ok, Now, this is where Aussies get is mixed up .. Singapore has NO SPONSORSHIP .. EMPLOYERS GIVES YOU A JOB AND GETS YOU THE PASS .. and that is a far call from "SPONSORSHIP" which exists in other countries ..
> 
> If you are sure both mean the same .. good ..
> 
> Cheers


well, I was a work pass holder in Singapore till a few months back. When I said "sponsor", it means that the work pass has to be FILED by the employer or whatever word that you may use instead of it. Its not mixing up dude.


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## simonsays

yes, dude .. I know .. but, the word "SPONSOR" means different, in a lot of countries .. so for the less informed, it can confuse. Like the sponsorship of visa, sponsorship of residency .. etc. etc.

Hence, the simple "EMPLOYER WILL APPLY AND OBTAIN THE PASS FOR YOU .. "

Anyway, if both mean the same for you .. good .. 

BTW, were you on Work pass or E Pass ????


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## oz_sg10

ecureilx said:


> yes, dude .. I know .. but, the word "SPONSOR" means different, in a lot of countries .. so for the less informed, it can confuse. Like the sponsorship of visa, sponsorship of residency .. etc. etc.
> 
> Hence, the simple "EMPLOYER WILL APPLY AND OBTAIN THE PASS FOR YOU .. "
> 
> Anyway, if both mean the same for you .. good ..
> 
> BTW, were you on Work pass or E Pass ????


The word SPONSOR means pretty much the same as far as I know. In US, and employer sponsors say an H1b visa (which can be compared to singapore e pass), in UK a work permit is again sponsored by the employer. Is it not the same in Singapore?

In Australia, sponsorship is done by employers, state governments and even relatives. It merely means that someone is filing a visa for you - its not an independent visa. 

all I intended was to convey to him that a company should hire him, and be willing to apply for his work visa. By saying work pass, I meant a generic term like a work permit or whatever you may call it, and not specifically an s pass, q1 , p1 or p2 passes. Hope you get me.

I was on an e pass.


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## simonsays

chief, my beef is simple .. 

In sponsored visa, the rules are lax, like in US .. in Singapore, you are totally tied only to your employer, in essence, you are his/her slave (not in a bad way .. but you get the drift I guess) and engaging in anything other than what is quoted to MOM is an offense, even internet trading/MLM .. and the whole works .. 

Hence my intention to clarify not to confuse 'sponsor' with 'pass application' in Singapore context .. 

A lot of people get the impression a-la US/UK and expect employers here to sponsor, so they can work, not only at the place of the sponsor .. 

Of course, that's the reason MOM introduced PEP, to simplify life, where the pass is tied to YOU, not the employer, and you need to only notify MOM that you are working for x employer or y employer, and only for the notified employer are you allowed to work for.

I was going to add on "A COMPANY *must* hire him/her" instead of 'should'. maybe for you such words mean less, but many a foreigner has got the wrong impression, even for EPEC / LTVP and get mixed up with the poor choice of words .. 

Anyway, let's not drag this on ..


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## oz_sg10

I do not intend to drag this on, but just want to make a point that its the same in US, UK and here in Australia as well that if an employer SPONSORS your visa, you cannot work anywhere else other than with the employer. That is the same in Singapore as well, right? You are entitled to work for another employer only if your H1b(US) or 457(Australia) or the Singapore pass(S pass, P1 or P2) is transffered from one employer to another. So in this aspect, I would disagree that to say a visa is SPONSORED by an employer is not a poor choice of words. 





ecureilx said:


> chief, my beef is simple ..
> 
> In sponsored visa, the rules are lax, like in US .. in Singapore, you are totally tied only to your employer, in essence, you are his/her slave (not in a bad way .. but you get the drift I guess) and engaging in anything other than what is quoted to MOM is an offense, even internet trading/MLM .. and the whole works ..
> 
> Hence my intention to clarify not to confuse 'sponsor' with 'pass application' in Singapore context ..
> 
> A lot of people get the impression a-la US/UK and expect employers here to sponsor, so they can work, not only at the place of the sponsor ..
> 
> Of course, that's the reason MOM introduced PEP, to simplify life, where the pass is tied to YOU, not the employer, and you need to only notify MOM that you are working for x employer or y employer, and only for the notified employer are you allowed to work for.
> 
> I was going to add on "A COMPANY *must* hire him/her" instead of 'should'. maybe for you such words mean less, but many a foreigner has got the wrong impression, even for EPEC / LTVP and get mixed up with the poor choice of words ..
> 
> Anyway, let's not drag this on ..


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## simonsays

correction: PASSES IN SINGAPORE ARE NOT TRANSFERRED. YOU CANCEL IT, AND OBTAIN A NEW PASS .. your FIN Number carrying on means nothing .. for MOM, your previous pass has to be cancelled, for them to issue a new pass for your new employer .. if you tell me passes are 'transferred' that's a new one for me .. extremely new one .. I been here for more than a decade, and have switched jobs 8 times .. and at no instance was the pass transferred .. 

And stat off in US, enough of visas are sponsored by 'agents' who place them in customer sites .. which, for a start, is NOT allowed strictly in Singapore .. and I could go on .. lest I end up annoying you .. 

And a tickling question: are you doing immigration consultancy ?? 

never mind anyway .. 

cheers


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## oz_sg10

ecureilx said:


> correction: PASSES IN SINGAPORE ARE NOT TRANSFERRED. YOU CANCEL IT, AND OBTAIN A NEW PASS .. your FIN Number carrying on means nothing .. for MOM, your previous pass has to be cancelled, for them to issue a new pass for your new employer .. if you tell me passes are 'transferred' that's a new one for me .. extremely new one .. I been here for more than a decade, and have switched jobs 8 times .. and at no instance was the pass transferred ..
> 
> And stat off in US, enough of visas are sponsored by 'agents' who place them in customer sites .. which, for a start, is NOT allowed strictly in Singapore .. and I could go on .. lest I end up annoying you ..
> 
> And a tickling question: are you doing immigration consultancy ??
> 
> never mind anyway ..
> 
> cheers


mate, I dont want to argue on if it is transferring the pass or cancelling and getting a new one - the point is that you are not allowed to hold 2 passes at the same point of time. Effectively isnt your FIN being transffered to the other company? Are you getting a new FIN in each company? You seem to be picking on the finer details only for the sake of argument. 

As for US, its not just agents but there are core companies too which sponsor h1bs and get employees to work in their premises - even the big banks and core product companies sponsor h1bs for people to work in their offices in US. 

And talking of being in customer sites, even companies/agencies are there in Singapore, who have employees on their rolls, get them to work on customer sites and then move them to different customer sites when that project is over. Though they remain as an employee of the parent company, they end up working in different customer sites for differnt projects. In fact this is what many consulting companies do. 

I am not doing immigration consultancy, but I do not wish to confuse people here onthe forum and that is the reason why I gave that 1 liner answer in the first place. The OP can find out or ask more details if he wants to know more..ok la


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## simonsays

Your FIN # sticks with you, even if you disappear and come back 10 years later, you get the same fin, and if it is 'transfer' .. no comments .. 

No, I am not out to confuse you or pick you apart, as I said, I been here long, and except in one place, in all my jobs, I had to do all the paperwork, as the companies were small, and I had to do for my colleagues as well .. so, yes, I am still smitten by your understanding   



> And talking of being in customer sites, even companies/agencies are there in Singapore, who have employees on their rolls, get them to work on customer sites and then move them to different customer sites when that project is over. Though they remain as an employee of the parent company, they end up working in different customer sites for differnt projects. In fact this is what many consulting companies do.


Above is totally illegal, though a lot of Indian companies are quitely doing it .. and doesn't mean it is right .. ah, yes again, don't compare with US, this is Singapore .. 

When I was attached to a large SI, when I was posted at Jurong Island, our HR asked MOM, and MOM made it clear that my employer be changed to the place I was posted to, and our HR had to 'cancel' my pass, resubmit through the new employer, and reverse it back, when the contact ended .. 

If you still demand an apology for confusing everybody by trying to differntiate the differences between WP/EP and sponsoring, then ... a million apologies in advance ..


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## oz_sg10

Friend, I do not demand apology nor do I accuse you. Maybe giving all the information at one shot is also right.

There are several Singaporean companies too - not just Indian ones, who post their employees at different customer sites for different projects. I appreciate the fact that you have been there for long, but I sincerely hope you get some of your facts right too . Also, I have seen people at customer sites for projects as less as a few days. Are you saying that all of them need new EPs?? , Consulting companies are all about projects with clients and being posted at a customer site is unavoidable in several cases.







ecureilx said:


> Your FIN # sticks with you, even if you disappear and come back 10 years later, you get the same fin, and if it is 'transfer' .. no comments ..
> 
> No, I am not out to confuse you or pick you apart, as I said, I been here long, and except in one place, in all my jobs, I had to do all the paperwork, as the companies were small, and I had to do for my colleagues as well .. so, yes, I am still smitten by your understanding
> 
> 
> 
> Above is totally illegal, though a lot of Indian companies are quitely doing it .. and doesn't mean it is right .. ah, yes again, don't compare with US, this is Singapore ..
> 
> When I was attached to a large SI, when I was posted at Jurong Island, our HR asked MOM, and MOM made it clear that my employer be changed to the place I was posted to, and our HR had to 'cancel' my pass, resubmit through the new employer, and reverse it back, when the contact ended ..
> 
> If you still demand an apology for confusing everybody by trying to differntiate the differences between WP/EP and sponsoring, then ... a million apologies in advance ..


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## simonsays

Now ... let me clear this .. I got my facts right .. then again, I am wrong .. so, yes I am wrong .. 

Consulting, companies, are known to abuse the system .. and MOM is doing a lot to stop such body-shopping ... and sad to say, it is primarily companies of some nationalities who are getting the heat .... 

as per MOM Law, there are a lot of companies violating the law, and depriving locals of job, by doing such "short term jobs" bringing in people on Social Visit pass and then quitely shipping them to Malaysia, and returning them back for another 30 days.. it is ILLEGAL .. and just that a few are doing it doesnt' make it right .. The right procedure is to obtain proper passes, so MOM is able to track and also need to be able to justify why a Singaporean can't do the job, instead of shipping in cheap labour .. 

Executing projects, like implementation, is not the same. you work for employer A, and Employer A has placed you for the implementation at Employer B's site, and once completed, you back to your Employer A .. and not continue to warm the seat in Employer B .. and get caught when a native finds out that you are not legally allowed to do seat-warming at the site, once the project finished, and you should have handed over and walked back to your Employer A .. 

My beef with those, who are employed by 'consultants' paid low salary, and shopped to other companies, to do jobs, which are not under the radar of MOM, and walk the fine grey area .. and more than blatantly claim that it is right .. 

Unless the employee is a Singaporean, or PR, any change of work place MUST BE NOTIFIED TO MOM, and MOM HAS THE RIGHT TO REQUEST TRANSFER OF EMPLOYER .. 

And Unless, the employer has, in the pass application, defined that he is employed by Company A, but will be attached to Company B, and only Company B .. not like you are implying .. .. And, as an example, last month, my current place of work applied for 5 EP for engineers, for an outsourced data center, and at each application, MOM was informed that our company was applying for the pass, and the engineer will be placed in X Location, attached to company X .. now why would our hare brained HR do that, if it is not needed ?? 

Anyway, I am not gonna drag myself down, since you are harping on 'your experience' vs with my very limited and miniscule exposure and handling HR matters .... And if you still claim I am feeding wrong info .. have a great day .. You won .. (And I believe people of certain nationalities are loathe to loosing .. no, nothing against your brethren, just, I just have only so just enough idea to know when to wind my neck in back to my rabbit hole .. )










PS: after the last election, did you ever wonder why consulting companies are having a tougher time getting EP/WP for such 'consulting' projects ??? MOM has wisened up to such antics ..


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## oz_sg10

I am not here to prejudice against any nationality, as I believe each nationality has both good and bad. I do not believe any nationality is worth calling themselves supreme or comprising of only the good people either. 

You have now dragged the topic from work pass to sponsorship definition to posting in customer sites and now illegal working of social visit passes.I do not wish to take this topic further and waste my time and you seem to be coming with more and more of your nationality prejudice and stuff. 

Good day 



ecureilx said:


> Now ... let me clear this .. I got my facts right .. then again, I am wrong .. so, yes I am wrong ..
> 
> Consulting, companies, are known to abuse the system .. and MOM is doing a lot to stop such body-shopping ... and sad to say, it is primarily companies of some nationalities who are getting the heat ....
> 
> as per MOM Law, there are a lot of companies violating the law, and depriving locals of job, by doing such "short term jobs" bringing in people on Social Visit pass and then quitely shipping them to Malaysia, and returning them back for another 30 days.. it is ILLEGAL .. and just that a few are doing it doesnt' make it right .. The right procedure is to obtain proper passes, so MOM is able to track and also need to be able to justify why a Singaporean can't do the job, instead of shipping in cheap labour ..
> 
> Executing projects, like implementation, is not the same. you work for employer A, and Employer A has placed you for the implementation at Employer B's site, and once completed, you back to your Employer A .. and not continue to warm the seat in Employer B .. and get caught when a native finds out that you are not legally allowed to do seat-warming at the site, once the project finished, and you should have handed over and walked back to your Employer A ..
> 
> My beef with those, who are employed by 'consultants' paid low salary, and shopped to other companies, to do jobs, which are not under the radar of MOM, and walk the fine grey area .. and more than blatantly claim that it is right ..
> 
> Unless the employee is a Singaporean, or PR, any change of work place MUST BE NOTIFIED TO MOM, and MOM HAS THE RIGHT TO REQUEST TRANSFER OF EMPLOYER ..
> 
> And Unless, the employer has, in the pass application, defined that he is employed by Company A, but will be attached to Company B, and only Company B .. not like you are implying .. .. And, as an example, last month, my current place of work applied for 5 EP for engineers, for an outsourced data center, and at each application, MOM was informed that our company was applying for the pass, and the engineer will be placed in X Location, attached to company X .. now why would our hare brained HR do that, if it is not needed ??
> 
> Anyway, I am not gonna drag myself down, since you are harping on 'your experience' vs with my very limited and miniscule exposure and handling HR matters .... And if you still claim I am feeding wrong info .. have a great day .. You won .. (And I believe people of certain nationalities are loathe to loosing .. no, nothing against your brethren, just, I just have only so just enough idea to know when to wind my neck in back to my rabbit hole .. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: after the last election, did you ever wonder why consulting companies are having a tougher time getting EP/WP for such 'consulting' projects ??? MOM has wisened up to such antics ..


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## simonsays

And still you decided to have the last word .. I added to your reputation .. if that matters ..   

I rest my case ..   

have a wonderful day ...

And I prefer to be open about what I feel .. than hide and beat around the bush .. knowingly violating the law and then wondering what happened and pleading ignorance is not funny .. at all ..


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## oz_sg10

It was actually good to have the discussion with you,except for the nationality thingy . I still miss Singapore a lot, and have a lot of respect for Singaporeans. 

Your profile says you are originally from Singapore - and you say you had 8 EPs in the last decade - im confused again 

reputation - thanks a lot - I am unaware if it makes any difference though



ecureilx said:


> And still you decided to have the last word .. I added to your reputation .. if that matters ..
> 
> I rest my case ..
> 
> have a wonderful day ...


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## oz_sg10

haha read the thread and you know who beats around the bush and starts nationality attacks and stuff .. you were the one who started giving lectures for just the one liner answer I gave



oz_sg10 said:


> It was actually good to have the discussion with you,except for the nationality thingy . I still miss Singapore a lot, and have a lot of respect for Singaporeans.
> 
> Your profile says you are originally from Singapore - and you say you had 8 EPs in the last decade - im confused again
> 
> reputation - thanks a lot - I am unaware if it makes any difference though


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## simonsays

I am not a Singaporean, and let's leave it at that ... 

You should be here, to see the current sentiments of the natives .. and a lot of 'EP abuse', 'PR Abuse' and a lot more negative sentiments .. and that diatribe of mine was not to offend anybody, but to be fair and square ...


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## oz_sg10

I also probably need to think of hiding nationality to be prevented against stereotypes and nationality "DIATRIBES" LOL



ecureilx said:


> I am not a Singaporean, and let's leave it at that ...
> 
> You should be here, to see the current sentiments of the natives .. and a lot of 'EP abuse', 'PR Abuse' and a lot more negative sentiments .. and that diatribe of mine was not to offend anybody, but to be fair and square ...


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## simonsays

ok keyboard warrior .. I told you that you have won :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

And if you ever find out my country of origin, you would stop painting me as a bigot .. and a racist, and an anti-x-y-z-nationality too (that's implied a lot I guess) 

I know I am not winning favours .. by speaking up to what is right .. 

:focus: :focus:

So, yes, you can get pass under company A, and company A can put you under Company B .. 100% legal .. as per your winning argument .. 

And sponsoring is the same per-se, in Singapore, compared to US, UK, Australia .. and .. yes, you can 'transfer' the pass ... :clap2::clap2:




Not to by funny, when objective answers get overridden by sudden insinuation of racism and anti - certain nationalities, it shows that somebody has lost steam .. 

And no, I don't mix racism per-se with anti foreigner/or being against certain nationalities)


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## oz_sg10

I am not painting you as anything, you yourself started your criticism on the nationality thing. It is not right is what I felt, and if you still feel you are right I have nothing to say. And regarding the discussion - all you have done is just argue on some finer points which I never even intended to make an argument on. And your reply definitely shows who has lost steam . 

Anyway, good day dude



ecureilx said:


> ok keyboard warrior .. I told you that you have won :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:
> 
> And if you ever find out my country of origin, you would stop painting me as a bigot .. and a racist, and an anti-x-y-z-nationality too (that's implied a lot I guess)
> 
> I know I am not winning favours .. by speaking up to what is right ..
> 
> :focus: :focus:
> 
> So, yes, you can get pass under company A, and company A can put you under Company B .. 100% legal .. as per your winning argument ..
> 
> And sponsoring is the same per-se, in Singapore, compared to US, UK, Australia .. and .. yes, you can 'transfer' the pass ... :clap2::clap2:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to by funny, when objective answers get overridden by sudden insinuation of racism and anti - certain nationalities, it shows that somebody has lost steam ..
> 
> And no, I don't mix racism per-se with anti foreigner/or being against certain nationalities)


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