# citizenship practicality



## kirikara (Jan 21, 2009)

Hi,
So my husband is a us citizen and i have been a permanent resident for almost 4 years. I discovered yesterday that I could have applied earlier this year for citizenship (i thought the 5 years rule applied, but apparently not for US spouse)

Anyway, we have recently decided that we will be moving back to france within a year maybe 2. I am not adjusting as well as we thought to the US life and we would like to give a try to french life and see how that goes.

I am considering applying for citizenship for several reasons some of them (not the main ones) would be: it will makeon travelling back and forth easier, possibly coming back to live in the US and for other reasons such as a certain commitment to my husband and his country (he will be moving, I will be taking on citizenship, somewhat of a give-take...) 
I think it also will ease my family in law since we will be announcing both at once (good new! I am becoming a citizen, bad news! we are moving accross the ocean...)

I know that I will be required to file US taxes for life regardless of where we live,
I would like to know if in fact it ends up costing anything when living in france (I am imagining taxes paid there would cover what I would owe to the Us gov).

I also would like to know anything else that comes with US citizenship that I might not be aware of, and might not be obvious.
Is it better once we will have kids?
Is it bad for other reasons?

Thanks!


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

As far as I can tell, the main thing is the taxes for the rest of your life. But you can exclude any salary you earn while resident overseas (using the overseas earned income exclusion). It also will allow you to file jointly with your husband, which has certain advantages if he has certain types of retirement funds or is eligible for US social security when he retires. 

There is also the inheritance tax advantage - only a US citizen spouse can inherit tax free from the spouse.

The only cost I've run across while living in France is that of renewing the passport every 10 years. If you want to travel anywhere that Americans aren't allowed to go (say, Cuba) you just use your French passport. (Not a bad idea for DH to go for one of those once he is eligible.)

Your kids are eligible for US nationality whether you have it or not, based on their father's citizenship (with all the pluses and minuses). It will be convenient if you can take them into the consulate to get them set up with their first passport.

Can't think of any serious down sides to taking US citizenship before going to live in France.
Cheers,
Bev


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## kirikara (Jan 21, 2009)

Bevdeforges said:


> As far as I can tell, the main thing is the taxes for the rest of your life. But you can exclude any salary you earn while resident overseas (using the overseas earned income exclusion). It also will allow you to file jointly with your husband, which has certain advantages if he has certain types of retirement funds or is eligible for US social security when he retires.
> 
> There is also the inheritance tax advantage - only a US citizen spouse can inherit tax free from the spouse.
> 
> ...


Thanks bev! I was hoping you would replied since we are in a very similar situation. and you know your stuff, tax wise.
I am right away going to uscis website... It is big step. It is exciting.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

kirikara said:


> Thanks bev! I was hoping you would replied since we are in a very similar situation. and you know your stuff, tax wise.
> I am right away going to uscis website... It is big step. It is exciting.


The main con against naturalization is the tax. But it's more paperwork exercise and sensible planning than having to pay out. Also, there are distinct tax advantages if your USC spouse should die before you if you hold joint US assets at that time. 

The other one is you no longer get out of jury service by ticking the "Not a Citizen" box.

Some folks have dual citizenship issues with their home country. I have no idea about France. The US perspective is comprehensively covered at Dual Citizenship FAQ. As a dual UK/US citizen, I have no particular problems.

Enjoy filling out your N400. The question about whether you have ever committed any offense for which you have not been charged is a chance to recap your life! Watch out for the "Ever detained or arrested" one -- the conventional wisdom is to include traffic tickets -- though they now specifically exclude minor ones in the instructions. Probably best to list them if you've had any and get an MVD record to show you've cleared them as soom adjudicators will still ask about them. Shout if you need any other hints for the form.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Fatbrit said:


> The other one is you no longer get out of jury service by ticking the "Not a Citizen" box.
> 
> Some folks have dual citizenship issues with their home country. I have no idea about France. The US perspective is comprehensively covered at Dual Citizenship FAQ. As a dual UK/US citizen, I have no particular problems.


France is the original "don't ask - don't tell" state as far as dual nationality is concerned. Even back before 1990, when the US decided to drop most objections to dual nationality (though not officially), I knew several people who had retained their French nationality after taking US citizenship and vice versa.

The jury duty thing goes away once you expatriate yourself (so does the obligation to pay state income tax provided you have no sources of income within the state in which you no longer reside). And, you still get to vote for Federal offices in the district in which you last resided prior to leaving the US.
Cheers,
Bev


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## kirikara (Jan 21, 2009)

wow, thanks for the info. I had no idea it could be a problem with french citizenship/. So once overthere I should basically just act like I am still "just"french?

As far as the form, I filled it all in. I did have issues with certains stuff and I will probably research on people's experience.
as an example I am not sure am too big in the bearing arms thing...

I have no traffic ticket whatsoever (i dont drive much).. I have never been stopped by the police, so I can't think of anything to say on there. I just said no to everything.

I do need lots of info about the test and the interview. these questions are making me very nervous. what if I forget something? and the whole process...Google search here i come. I am sure there are plenty of ressources for that and now the 100 questions are online. I remember taking the test online 6 months ago just to see...


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

kirikara said:


> wow, thanks for the info. I had no idea it could be a problem with french citizenship/. So once overthere I should basically just act like I am still "just"french?


Um, no. There really is no problem these days holding dual citizenship between France and the US. Once back in France, you just need to keep filing those tax returns. To vote or not to vote is up to you, and just remember to always use your US passport for visits back to the US.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

kirikara said:


> As far as the form, I filled it all in. I did have issues with certains stuff and I will probably research on people's experience.
> as an example I am not sure am too big in the bearing arms thing...
> 
> I have no traffic ticket whatsoever (i dont drive much).. I have never been stopped by the police, so I can't think of anything to say on there. I just said no to everything.
> ...


The bearing of arms thing is an American oddity. It ain't going to go away, and I'd hate to see the consequences of trying to make it go away. It's not like it's an absolute right anyway -- the Supremes have diluted it considerably. The only thing I know you're allowed to drop from the oath is the God part.

Make sure you find the right test questions -- they changed some of them a way back. On the USCIS site, it's referred to as the "new test". You need to get 6/10 right. For those with poor English skills, it's probably quite a hurdle. But I see no evidence that you'll have a problem. Learn them as you would a Latin declination and it shouldn't require more than a couple of hours of memorization. The answers given are those expected -- you don't need to elaborate. The pass mark is a lowly 6/10, and they'll stop asking you the questions as soon as you've got 6 right. The test of English is equally innocuous: read and write a simple sentence.

By the time you get to naturalization, USCIS actually seem to want to get you off their books. It's almost as if they've had enough of you!


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