# Rent v. Buy



## dmret (Mar 12, 2013)

Good morning all
It would be interesting to know the views of others regarding the benefits or otherwise of renting as against buying a home in Spain. Our position is to rent permanently.Thus giving flexibility and avoiding, what appears to be, the pitfalls of purchasing or am I missing something.
Thanks.


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## cherrytpaul (Mar 19, 2015)

We lived there for 4 years and loved every minute but would never buy we also want to return to long term let do you have any contacts there as we want to go to spain for 2 months to find a new home Cherry and Paul


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

It depends on your circumstances. I preferred to rent, especially as the market has been plummeting and has now possibly hit the bottom??? 

But if you want a permanent home and are confident of the area, the surroundings and the process of housebuying in Spain, then why not??!

I always recommend that new people to the country rent first, to give them a feel for everything, to see if they like it, if they want different things once the novelty has worn off, if they miss the UK and to learn how property purchasing works in Spain.

Jo xxx


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

dmret said:


> Good morning all
> It would be interesting to know the views of others regarding the benefits or otherwise of renting as against buying a home in Spain. Our position is to rent permanently.Thus giving flexibility and avoiding, what appears to be, the pitfalls of purchasing or am I missing something.
> Thanks.


From a purely financial view you're not missing anything...

My rule of thumb is that buying only starts to become a viable alternative to renting if you are sure that you'll own that property for more than 10 years. On many properties I've seen, the purchase and selling costs alone can be more than what you'd expect to pay for renting a similar property for over 5 years! When you take into account other issues like mortgage interest, potential inheritance tax, maintenance, other potential taxes if the property isn't your main residence, etc, etc you need to live there a long time to recuperate those overheads.

Of course many will say that there are other benefits to owning your own place, but those benefits usually boil down to personal taste and a desire to own somewhere and maybe do it up, rather than financial reasons.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Personally I preferred to buy, which I did 12 years ago. You do have to be really sure of both what you WANT in a property and an area, and what is really SUITABLE FOR YOUR NEEDS (and that means long term needs not just your immediate situation), and make sure the two match up. And of course, check out a prospective area very carefully. We bought in an area we were already pretty familiar with from holidays over many years, at diffferent times of the year including the winter so we had a good idea what to expect.

There are two main reasons why I preferred to buy rather than rent. The first is that I value the security of knowing the roof over my head is mine, and I can make changes to it if I want to (subject to official permissions, of course) and I can't be given notice by a landlord who wants to sell the property or take it back for his own use. I value that over flexibility or the freedom of responsibility for repairs. etc. The second is that if I had paid rent for these 12 years, I would get no money back at all if I decided to move on from this house. If I sold it, however, even if the price had fallen from what I paid for it (which I don't believe it has as we bought before the property boom was at its height) I would still get at least some of my investment back.

The pool of properties available for long term rental in my particular area is far, far smaller than the number which are for sale, and therefore a purchaser would have a greater likelihood of finding something that suits their invidividual needs than choosing a rental from a pool only 10% the size of the "se vende" market, or if they couldn't find the perfect property they could find one they could change to suit them.

This is only my personal view, and many other people will take the opposite one for reasons which are just as valid to them.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Hi dmret. Leper had a thread on this discussion recently that you may find helpful:

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...13209-case-against-buying-property-spain.html


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

My reasons for why we rented were this;

When we first moved to Spain, we rented simply because we couldnt sell our UK house. The plan was that the landlord would sell us the house we were renting once we had sold the UK place. The house was perfect, in a perfect area, a perfect size, we viewed it a couple of times and were totally "in love" with it.

However, once we were in and had been there for a few weeks, we realised that there was a big quarry at the top of the road and when they blasted it every few days, the dust was horrendous (even the sky went dark). There were of course huge lorries driving past servicing said quarry. The next door neighbour kept chicken, which we thought was lovely - but then we realised he would (not quietly) kill some every sunday morning when a lorry would turn up to take them.... to wherever. The Spanish couple opposite used to fight and argue and have drunken brawls with other neighbours in the street............... the house was infact too big for us and for us, not very "user friendly" 

So we were very glad we hadnt bought it - not to mention that at present time values, its worth only about half what we were prepared to pay for it 6 years ago. I'm also glad because our plans didnt work out, so we moved back easily to our UK house that we never did sell

All that said. Buying is a way of feeling secure and I agree with all the things Lynn has said.

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> Personally I preferred to buy, which I did 12 years ago. You do have to be really sure of both what you WANT in a property and an area, and what is really SUITABLE FOR YOUR NEEDS (and that means long term needs not just your immediate situation), and make sure the two match up. And of course, check out a prospective area very carefully. We bought in an area we were already pretty familiar with from holidays over many years, at diffferent times of the year including the winter so we had a good idea what to expect.
> 
> There are two main reasons why I preferred to buy rather than rent. The first is that I value the security of knowing the roof over my head is mine, and I can make changes to it if I want to (subject to official permissions, of course) and I can't be given notice by a landlord who wants to sell the property or take it back for his own use. I value that over flexibility or the freedom of responsibility for repairs. etc. The second is that if I had paid rent for these 12 years, I would get no money back at all if I decided to move on from this house. If I sold it, however, even if the price had fallen from what I paid for it (which I don't believe it has as we bought before the property boom was at its height) I would still get at least some of my investment back.
> 
> ...


I'm with you, Lynn, on all you have said. 

It is a case of fully researching what you want, what you don't want and finding the place and the property that meet your specifications so that you can buy with confidence. Personally I think it is sheer madness to be paying out 6.000 € year after year just to line somebody else's pocket while not being able to make the place your own. There are one or two people most of us can mention who have found their perfect place as a rental and it suits them but would not suit us. We get those who come onto the forum and say "We are moving to Spain next week/month, can you tell us where we should go and whether to buy or rent" - the mind boggles, even more so when they also say they have a number of children of various ages.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jojo said:


> My reasons for why we rented were this;
> 
> When we first moved to Spain, we rented simply because we couldnt sell our UK house. The plan was that the landlord would sell us the house we were renting once we had sold the UK place. The house was perfect, in a perfect area, a perfect size, we viewed it a couple of times and were totally "in love" with it.
> 
> ...


You have just reinforced my point about doing proper research. Much of that which you didn't like, you would have seen without having to live there and you would not have bought that place.


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## dmret (Mar 12, 2013)

*Rent/buy*

Thanks for the replies.
From a personal position, we will rent, we will have sold our house, renting it out is a non starter. By the time you have factored in the increased mortgage payment required by the lender (if there is one in place), house insurance, possible agency fees and tax obligations, for us it's not worth it. Better to bank the equity and add to pensions.
We think flexibility is the name of the game. This must have happened to others, but, we know of one pensioner who owned his own home whose wife sadly died. He would dearly like to return to the UK and be with his family but can't as he has no prospect of selling his spanish house in the current financial market so he is stuck on his own in a small village.
It seems that house ownership is a peculiar British trait, I fully understand the need for younger people to buy but see no point in people of a certain age doing the same.
For what it's worth.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> You have just reinforced my point about doing proper research. Much of that which you didn't like, you would have seen without having to live there and you would not have bought that place.



I think when you have a family, work and commitments, its not easy to do proper research - and that is exactly why I think people in our position should rent first, then they get the real everyday picture of what life and living in Spain is like and that, IMO requires you actually living there and experiencing unforeseen difficulties and issues. 

On a financial level, due to the recession etc, we actually saved ourselves a fortune. We rented our UK house which negated the cost of the rent in Spain. and as I said, the value of the Spanish house dropped significantly. 

Jo xxx


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

dmret said:


> It seems that house ownership is a peculiar British trait, I fully understand the need for younger people to buy but see no point in people of a certain age doing the same.
> For what it's worth.


You ignore the fact that most Spaniards own their own houses and often more than one (inherited from family members) plus a piece of land on which to grow foodstuffs (huertas). Ownership of property figures very high in the minds of Spaniards. Prior to the Civil War, many were in a position of serfdom - they didn't own their own homes, they had to rent from the rich land-owner who also (if he felt like it) would offer them employment. They were totally subservient to the landlord. Even if they were offered work today, they might not be offered anything the following day (they were employed on a day-to-day basis - called journaledos and if the landlord became aware that he could get workers cheaper from a neighbouring village/town, then they would be brought in instead of those living on his land). If they were lucky, the landlord might allow them to have a small patch of land to grow food for themselves, but, if what was growing looked good, the landlord's private army of thugs would seize those foodstuffs for the landlord. You have a nice looking daughter, she may well be taken to 'keep the landlord's bed warm'. Many were the brides who were taken away following their wedding so that the landlord could have the privilege of deflowering them, etc. 

Spaniards are very keen to avoid a recurrence of that situation.


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## dmret (Mar 12, 2013)

I didn't ignore the fact. I didn't know it. However, I don't see how that relates to my overall comments re renting or buying.
Thanks anyway.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Depends on your situation but we are opting to buy but only after we rented first and settled in. To be honest we have been renting longer than we wanted to and that's down mainly to how difficult it can be in finding the right *Legal* property.
For us with a mortgage we will be better off aside from the initial deposit and 20%ish and if in a worse case scenario we look at things the same way as if we were renting and consider the repayments like rent money(ie gone) then it's rather much easier to recover our initial investment.
Not the plan mind you.

We will also be saving a substantial amount on the repayments that are about half of what we pay in rent now and will have much smaller utility bills than we do now as well.
Plus there are all the added general benefits of being in your own home.

All this however will be dependent on getting to the notary finally, maybe this time. Things are looking good for once.
If not then it will be time for a total rethink about Spain.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> You ignore the fact that most Spaniards own their own houses and often more than one (inherited from family members) plus a piece of land on which to grow foodstuffs (huertas). Ownership of property figures very high in the minds of Spaniards. Prior to the Civil War, many were in a position of serfdom - they didn't own their own homes, they had to rent from the rich land-owner who also (if he felt like it) would offer them employment. They were totally subservient to the landlord. Even if they were offered work today, they might not be offered anything the following day (they were employed on a day-to-day basis - called journaledos and if the landlord became aware that he could get workers cheaper from a neighbouring village/town, then they would be brought in instead of those living on his land). If they were lucky, the landlord might allow them to have a small patch of land to grow food for themselves, but, if what was growing looked good, the landlord's private army of thugs would seize those foodstuffs for the landlord. You have a nice looking daughter, she may well be taken to 'keep the landlord's bed warm'. Many were the brides who were taken away following their wedding so that the landlord could have the privilege of deflowering them, etc.
> 
> Spaniards are very keen to avoid a recurrence of that situation.


I agree. As I pointed out in another thread, the rate of home ownership in Spain is much higher than it is in the UK, at over 80%. The other week we met a young Spanish couple in the street who we hadn't seen for a while, who had been renting a house (rather a run down one) up the hill from us. We asked them if they'd moved and they said yes, they'd bought a house a bit further away. It's only small, said the husband, but it will be ours. Renting is too expensive. That's from a young Spanish couple with 3 children and I suspect not very much money.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

List of countries by home ownership rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pazcat said:


> List of countries by home ownership rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






Lynn R said:


> I agree. As I pointed out in another thread, the rate of home ownership in Spain is much higher than it is in the UK, at over 80%. The other week we met a young Spanish couple in the street who we hadn't seen for a while, who had been renting a house (rather a run down one) up the hill from us. We asked them if they'd moved and they said yes, they'd bought a house a bit further away. It's only small, said the husband, but it will be ours. Renting is too expensive. That's from a young Spanish couple with 3 children and I suspect not very much money.


exactly

Spain at number 18 with 78.9% owning their own home 

The UK at number 33 with 66.7% 

it's an oft-quoted misconception that more rent here in Spain than in the UK


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## angkag (Oct 29, 2013)

I see many comments about paying rent as "lining someone else's pockets ".

The economics don't quite work like that as capital not used to buy property can be employed in other investments that generate income, so that alternative income is lost if committing to a home.

Plus the frictional costs of buying in Spain are anywhere between 12-15% of the purchase price, then the owner faces tax on the rental income received, often having to pay a fee to a letting agent, community fees, insurance, repairs etc. Let alone periods where renters cannot be found.

Meantime the renter has flexibility to up and change location any time they like, and is immune to the sort of property crash we saw in Spain.

I'm not sure how many owners who have rented property out in Spain view their pockets as having been lined ! So why some renters see it this way ?

If the property market was going up 10% a year, then maybe, but it hasn't, and won't be for at least a few years.

Among other things some predict the Euro to fall another 25% or so over the next two years (Goldman Sachs, Deutsche, others), so if that were to come even close to true, assuming the market stays flat in that time (probably a good assumption), you could get the same property in 2 years time at much less depending what currencies you hold.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

dmret said:


> I didn't ignore the fact. I didn't know it. However, I don't see how that relates to my overall comments re renting or buying.
> Thanks anyway.


Re your comments on renting or buying, you seem to know exactly what your point of view is and it seems very firm. I don't know what your motivation was for asking the original question.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

It's also a misconception that owning a home is a "particular British trait". I don't know why people hang on to such when Google will quickly help them to establish the facts.



xabiachica said:


> exactly
> 
> Spain at number 18 with 78.9% owning their own home
> 
> ...


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

The rent vs. buy position depends a lot on personal circumstances. For the youngish working person, it's a good idea to buy the place you live in while living in it (paying a mortgage), thereby avoiding rent money that you never see again.

Then, when you stop working and have a reduced income, you own the roof and don't have to continue renting.

But that's one sector of the population. You're in a different position.




dmret said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> From a personal position, we will rent, we will have sold our house, renting it out is a non starter. By the time you have factored in the increased mortgage payment required by the lender (if there is one in place), house insurance, possible agency fees and tax obligations, for us it's not worth it. Better to bank the equity and add to pensions.
> We think flexibility is the name of the game. This must have happened to others, but, we know of one pensioner who owned his own home whose wife sadly died. He would dearly like to return to the UK and be with his family but can't as he has no prospect of selling his spanish house in the current financial market so he is stuck on his own in a small village.
> It seems that house ownership is a peculiar British trait, I fully understand the need for younger people to buy but see no point in people of a certain age doing the same.
> For what it's worth.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jojo said:


> *I think when you have a family*, work and commitments, its not easy to do proper research - and that is exactly why I think people in our position should rent first, then they get the real everyday picture of what life and living in Spain is like and that, IMO requires you actually living there and experiencing unforeseen difficulties and issues.
> 
> On a financial level, due to the recession etc, we actually saved ourselves a fortune. We rented our UK house which negated the cost of the rent in Spain. and as I said, the value of the Spanish house dropped significantly.
> 
> Jo xxx


"*I think when you have a family*" that is the very reason you should do proper research no matter whether you eventually buy or rent. It is even more important when you have children to consider. Nowadays, with computers and the internet, it is so much easier to find out what is in various places, what schools are nearby and with the aid of forums plus programs like Google Earth, you can virtually visit from the comfort of your home in UK.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

baldilocks said:


> "*I think when you have a family*" that is the very reason you should do proper research no matter whether you eventually buy or rent. It is even more important when you have children to consider. Nowadays, with computers and the internet, it is so much easier to find out what is in various places, what schools are nearby and with the aid of forums plus programs like Google Earth, you can virtually visit from the comfort of your home in UK.


... and indeed we did. My husband made several trips over, he had a business contact in Marbella who he was going into business with. I joined him on a fair few visits too. But nothing can prepare you for unforeseen issues (neighbours slaughtering chicken early on a Sunday morning for one lol). Its just an option to find out more before burning your bridges - if you dont need to buy and you can budget for renting, then renting is great for a trial period.

In retrospect, I'm so glad we didnt buy - the recession spoilt my husbands business plans, my daughter hated Spain, there was no chance of employment for my son, the exchange rate plummeted and had we have bought that house, we'd have lost half the cost of it - and thats if we could have sold it

Jo xxx


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

jojo said:


> The next door neighbour kept chicken, which we thought was lovely
> 
> Jo xxx


Isn't it funny how we all see things differently? When we were looking for a house we were taken to see one where chickens were being kept at the house next door. Nooooo! I thought, think of the noise, the smell (especially in summer) and the fact that rats and mice would be attracted to the food put down for the chickens.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Lynn R said:


> Isn't it funny how we all see things differently? When we were looking for a house we were taken to see one where chickens were being kept at the house next door. Nooooo! I thought, think of the noise, the smell (especially in summer) and the fact that rats and mice would be attracted to the food put down for the chickens.



He wasnt right next door.... hard to explain, but we liked the "country" feel and the sound of roosters in the morning........

Actually it was the neighbours the other side of us (who were British) that we should have worried about. They had a big, fancy house, several BMWs... all the trappings of luxury. Their children became friendly with mine and they told me that daddy was a pool cleaner...???

A year or so ago, it was on the news that the police had raided his house and he was a wanted drug baron lol!!!!

Jo xxx


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## angkag (Oct 29, 2013)

'pool cleaner might have meant a cleaner hailing form Liverpool ??

cleaner
A specialized person who removes incriminating evidence from a crimescene (usually one involving murder) in order to make the legal consequences of the crime go away.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

When we viewed this house, we were taken down to the lowest level, there were the chickens, a duck and a pig, living in what is now our patio, logstore and workshop!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Deciding whether to rent or buy isn't just limited to factors relating to Spain. There are other UK-related factors to consider as well as your personal circumstances.

We have always owned properties in the UK, for living in and renting out. But when we decided to leave the UK we sold all our properties.

Reasons:

*Personal and UK -related Factors in our decision*

We knew it would be highly unlikely that we would return to the UK and if we did we would be happy to rent.
By selling up we had a considerable amount of cash to spend and invest.
We have no need to leave anything to our heir, my son. He and his wife are very well off and in any case already have a property in Spain. They would not want the hassle of dealing with another as inheritance.
We had had enough of owning property. We wanted someone else to pay the maintenance costs.

*Spain-related Factors*.

Buying the kind of property we had lived in in the UK in the area we chose to live in would have taken a huge chunk out of our cash or have been unaffordable.
We could however afford to rent that kind of property.
When we are decrepit and no longer want to live away from a larger town or in a large house we simply have to call up a removal firm and not worry about selling.
If unpleasant neighbours move next door we'd look for another rental. 
The landlord maintains the house. We have a good landlord so no problems there.
We don't mind paying money for someone else's property. It suits us.
Any problems of any kind and we move. We will always find another suitable house to rent, thanks to our decision to turn our UK bricks and mortar into cash.

Those were our reasons. Some may apply to the OP, others not. But there is no hard and fast rule as to whether to rent or buy. It's down to you as an individual.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Horlics said:


> It's also a misconception that owning a home is a "particular British trait". I don't know why people hang on to such when Google will quickly help them to establish the facts.


Out of interest, do you know what the figure was pre the construction and cheap loans boom?
We shouldn't forget the huge number of evictions in recent years either.
A nation of owners or owers...that's the crucial question.
Whether in the UK or Spain , until that last mortgage payment, your home is bought on hire purchase...


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

I'll have a look a bit later, one of the sites I saw had a lot of historic information so it might be there.

On the question of owners or owers, it was in the news last month that for the first time the number of houses owned outright exceeded those on which there is a mortgage.



mrypg9 said:


> Out of interest, do you know what the figure was pre the construction and cheap loans boom?
> We shouldn't forget the huge number of evictions in recent years either.
> A nation of owners or owers...that's the crucial question.
> Whether in the UK or Spain , until that last mortgage payment, your home is bought on hire purchase...


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## tonymar (Jan 29, 2015)

I would buy , I dont think there has been a better time than now , for quite a while !

Strong pound, extra cheap property !!

Wish I was buying right now instead of 12 years ago when prices were sky high !!and going up on a weekly basis 

Tony Agost Alicante


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

I guess it does boil down to circumstances , I can see both sides of the argument. If you are not sure of the area and type of property , then to rent makes sense but if you have done your homework know what it is like to live in your chosen area at different times of the year then given the current prices and euro value for me buying is the way to go. We were in a financial position to so with no mortgage and no reliance on Spain for an income , we knew our chosen area well and have certainly bought at the right time. I prefer knowing the property is mine , I wont be moved on and I can change it as I please within the legal requirements. For me there couldn't be a better time to buy in Spain if it fits with your personal circumstances. No doubt the debate will continue...........


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jojo said:


> He wasnt right next door.... hard to explain, but we liked the "country" feel and the sound of roosters in the morning........
> 
> Actually it was the neighbours the other side of us (who were British) that we should have worried about. They had a big, fancy house, several BMWs... all the trappings of luxury. Their children became friendly with mine and they told me that daddy was a pool cleaner...???
> 
> ...


Our "pool cleaning" neighbour lol

Fugitive Mark Lilley found NAKED in a panic room at luxury Spanish villa - Mirror Online

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

maureen47 said:


> I guess it does boil down to circumstances , I can see both sides of the argument. If you are not sure of the area and type of property , then to rent makes sense but if you have done your homework know what it is like to live in your chosen area at different times of the year then given the current prices and euro value for me buying is the way to go. We were in a financial position to so with no mortgage and no reliance on Spain for an income , we knew our chosen area well and have certainly bought at the right time. I prefer knowing the property is mine , I wont be moved on and I can change it as I please within the legal requirements. For me there couldn't be a better time to buy in Spain if it fits with your personal circumstances. No doubt the debate will continue...........


Our landlord lets us do as we please in our house. Mind you, we haven't wanted to make structural changes.
We said we would paint the house and out of courtesy asked if we should stick to white or similarly inoffensive colour. Do as you please , said he. 
I suggested we might paint the bedroom black with mirrored ceiling and frescoes of cavorting nudes.
No problem, said he..
We had everywhere painted white.

One thing that happened in the UK....we lived in our ancient cottage in a quiet street for years. We knew our neighbours, everything in the garden was literally rosy.
Then a neighbour living in a small terraced cottage very near to our house sold and the new owner bought to let. The house was rented by a young woman who completely changed the neighbourhood. She had loud parties where guests spilled onto the streets, threw bottles in gardens, peed everywhere, smashed windows...the police were called regularly. After a year of hell she was evicted but after we sold and moved out the house was rented to noisy Eastern Europeans. The ambience completely changed.
You never know what could change for the worse.
Some property owners living in urbanisations in Estepona have had their cadastral values changed because of road and sewerage improvements and many have been given huge bills, one woman having to pay over 50k euros.
Loads of info about Estepona Golf and Valle Romano in the British press.


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> Our landlord lets us do as we please in our house. Mind you, we haven't wanted to make structural changes.
> We said we would paint the house and out of courtesy asked if we should stick to white or similarly inoffensive colour. Do as you please , said he.
> I suggested we might paint the bedroom black with mirrored ceiling and frescoes of cavorting nudes.
> No problem, said he..
> ...



That's exactly why we bought on the outskirts of a small village with no direct neighbours and enough land between not to be bothered, you need to do as much homework as possible to make an investment like this , I am sure there will still be things that crop up but we can live with that. It wouldn't be for everyone but for us it is just right


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

There is one thing certain to keep the post count ticking over and that is if one should buy or rent debate. Everybody's circumstances are different. If we had money dripping from us and wanted our offspring to inherit property then buy property. You will be tied down and nailed to the location.

But, by renting (€550 per month for two bedroom accommodation in a decent location in a good resort) you are not super-glued into any situation. You can up-sticks and move elsewhere or even go back to the UK anytime. You have flexibility in renting and you are risking little or nothing. 

You've worked hard to get where you are, why cock it up and be tied into a property trap in which you have no way of knowing wither it will prosper or lose.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Leper said:


> There is one thing certain to keep the post count ticking over and that is if one should buy or rent debate. Everybody's circumstances are different. If we had money dripping from us and wanted our offspring to inherit property then buy property. You will be tied down and nailed to the location.
> 
> But, by renting (€550 per month for two bedroom accommodation in a decent location in a good resort) you are not super-glued into any situation. You can up-sticks and move elsewhere or even go back to the UK anytime. You have flexibility in renting and you are risking little or nothing.
> 
> You've worked hard to get where you are, why cock it up and be tied into a property trap in which you have no way of knowing wither it will prosper or lose.


each to his own as they say. Alot depends on the property market. As you say, if you decide you want to move, its not easy if you have to sell a property first - at the present time, it can take more than months to sell, then you have to pay all of the extras, which is a significant amount, and then again if you buy....then theres the stress involved....

But I also understand the need for security and owning your own home.

So, its got to be a personal choice. There's no right or wrong. Altho those who are thinking of buying as an investment............ it might be good in the long term, but risky???

Jo xxx


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Jojo is right inasmuch as buying or renting is a personal thing. Let's say you are retiring and have your lump sum and savings and you plough the lot into a property in Spain. Add in the fact that now is the best time to pick up bargains. Sounds good, if that is what you wish. 

But, you are now nailed to whatever property you bought, hundreds of miles from your base, a target for sunseekers who have to buy nothing other than suncream who are on holidays and suddenly you're their host every year.

Let's compromise here:- If you are hell bent on buying, move to whatever area you intend to live and rent off season for at least three months. By the end of this you will know if buying is right for you. Always remember Napoleon and Hitler were far from their base tackling Russia and despite their resources they became a cropper. Don't let this happen to you.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

We were in the position that we had sold up in UK and now have no ties other than my OAP. As I have said before, we could manage easily (when we arrived) on 600€ per month, having bought the house outright, paying rent (or mortgage) for a similar sized property would have doubled our outgoings = unsustainable. As it is, we can afford to take a couple of holidays a year and we can afford to do quite major works on the house (e.g. replace the roof) without wondering where the money is going to come from. To start with, SWMBO wasn't working but now does a few hours per week for a local academy so it was important for us to be able to manage on my OAP, just as should she be unable to work now, we will still be able to manage without too much penny-pinching.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Each to their own.

I think renting currently is the way to go. I have seen properties for sale at 200k but available for rent at 600 per month. Selling up and putting cash in bank- even at pathetic rate will pay over half the rent each month.

Laying out about 3000 a year in rent- but not having any of the outlay owners must pay- whilst still having lump sum, appeals to me


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Rabbitcat said:


> Each to their own.
> 
> I think renting currently is the way to go. I have seen properties for sale at 200k but available for rent at 600 per month. Selling up and putting cash in bank- even at pathetic rate will pay over half the rent each month.
> 
> Laying out about 3000 a year in rent- but not having any of the outlay owners must pay- whilst still having lump sum, appeals to me


Buying and selling in Spain isnt cheap either

Jo xxx


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Very true.

It is a decision which will be very much down to each individual. I just feel that currently I prefer to keep lump sum intact and for the sake of a few grand each year I can leave, move - whatever as and when I wish without the trauma/ difficulties of selling.

If I rent somewhere I like for a few years and decide that's the place for me maybe then I would take the plunge, cut the rental expense and buy.

However until then it just doesn't add up for me


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

For us we are buying a home not an investment , who knows what it will be worth in 5yrs or 10 yrs but its a risk we were willing to take, the prices are the best they have been for many yrs as is the euro rate, having done our homework and I guess most importantly looked at the financial pros and cons our best option was to buy. We want to settle in our chosen area of Spain and can travel from there if we please, the house was chosen to suit our needs not that of potential visitors but we can accommodate them in the casita that comes with the house. We are in rural Spain but a 40 min drive from the coast should we want a day out by the sea, for us its the best of both worlds , a beautiful peaceful place to live and choices of how we spend our time. I guess it all boils down to how much budget you have and optimise that to get the scenario that works for you. We all want different things from a life in a new country so I guess this will be something that folks will never agree on as its a personal choice to suit an individual lifestyle and circumstances. I worked abroad many yrs ago and rented as it was an experience of living a completely different life and as I didn't know how long it would work, renting was perfect , if you are sure of destination and plan to be there for a number of years then buying becomes an option if your situation allows you to do so with minimal risk. It took us almost 2yrs of homework to find the right house , the area we had chosen from experiencing it in a house sitting situation at different times of the year which allowed us to 'live' as we would in the area, our house choices and requirements changed a great deal in that time. The house we ended up with suits our needs perfectly but would not have been one we would have looked at in the early days of our search. I am so glad we didn't end up with some of the houses we thought as 'idyllic ' in the early days of the search as they would have been so wrong. The time spent searching has been worthwhile to end up in the right place with the right house for us. We could maybe have moved and rented and carried out this search then but we were not in a position to do that so made various trips so that when the time was right we had found our perfect house. I am sure we will have missed something but feel we have done enough to understand how it will be living in the area and house of our choice. 5 months and counting until our permanent move , We cant wait !


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## Tammydog (Mar 7, 2015)

We're in the situation of having sold our house in the UK of coming over to Spain to rent with the idea of Purchasing if we feel it is right. We are in our Mid 60s and get our UK Pensions. But same here not sure wether just to stay in rentals and invest our capital or buy outright in Spain. We do have some health issues so need to feel quite secure as do not wish to keep moving. We are aware that possibly having to return at some point in the distant future back to UK. But then we could rent a private warden run flat or maybe time for that Nursing home?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Tammydog said:


> We're in the situation of having sold our house in the UK of coming over to Spain to rent with the idea of Purchasing if we feel it is right. We are in our Mid 60s and get our UK Pensions. But same here not sure wether just to stay in rentals and invest our capital or buy outright in Spain. We do have some health issues so need to feel quite secure as do not wish to keep moving. We are aware that possibly having to return at some point in the distant future back to UK. But then we could rent a private warden run flat or maybe time for that Nursing home?


IMO, you should rent, at least until you feel its right to buy. Renting does give you much more freedom and versatility. 

We all have different needs and criteria at different times in our lives I guess

Jo xxx


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Rabbitcat said:


> I have seen properties for sale at 200k but available for rent at 600 per month.


I've seen properties at less than 200k that are rented out for 6 weeks in the summer for over 1000 a week. Then there's the rest of the year to make a bit more.

If you buy the right flat in the right place for the right amount of money, you can make a better return on part-time rental in Spain than you can renting something out all year in the UK.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Horlics said:


> I've seen properties at less than 200k that are rented out for 6 weeks in the summer for over 1000 a week. Then there's the rest of the year to make a bit more.
> 
> If you buy the right flat in the right place for the right amount of money, you can make a better return on part-time rental in Spain than you can renting something out all year in the UK.


True, altho tax, insurance and key holder/cleaners add to that cost, as does the uncertainty. I have friends who have places in Spain and they cant afford to rent them out. One couple were burgled a few months ago. Admittedly, if they had tenants it probably wouldnt have happened, but they are now having trouble getting the insurance company to pay up

Jo xxx


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Horlics said:


> I've seen properties at less than 200k that are rented out for 6 weeks in the summer for over 1000 a week. Then there's the rest of the year to make a bit more.
> 
> If you buy the right flat in the right place for the right amount of money, you can make a better return on part-time rental in Spain than you can renting something out all year in the UK.




True but I still feel,its a renters market currently.

From my own point of view I couldn't/wouldn't sink 200k into a place in Spain, but keep my money in the bank and then rent the same place out for about 3000 a year after my lump sum interest. Its a no brainer

I get to live in a top place, my lump sums still intact plus I have none of the " owning" expenses. 

Luvly jubbly


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

You missed the point. Where I live, a 200k apartment will make 6k in 6 weeks. You cannot rent the "same place" for 3000 + interest on 200k a year.

Can you rent a decent place cheaply in Spain, yes. Is it a "renters market", well, given that you can rent a decent place cheaply, yes.

Is renting the right choice for everybody, no.



Rabbitcat said:


> True but I still feel,its a renters market currently.
> 
> From my own point of view I couldn't/wouldn't sink 200k into a place in Spain, but keep my money in the bank and then rent the same place out for about 3000 a year after my lump sum interest. Its a no brainer
> 
> ...


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Rabbitcat said:


> Each to their own.
> 
> I think renting currently is the way to go. I have seen properties for sale at 200k but available for rent at 600 per month. Selling up and putting cash in bank- even at pathetic rate will pay over half the rent each month.
> 
> Laying out about 3000 a year in rent- but not having any of the outlay owners must pay- whilst still having lump sum, appeals to me


1. Why pay out 200k? There are many excellent properties (quite often better) more realistically priced.

2. I'd love to know what school you went to or is that "New Maths"? 600 per month = 7200 per year not 3000.

As you say each to her/his own.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> 1. Why pay out 200k? There are many excellent properties (quite often better) more realistically priced.
> 
> 2. I'd love to know what school you went to or is that "New Maths"? 600 per month = 7200 per year not 3000.
> 
> As you say each to her/his own.


Exactly. I didn't sink all my money into a house in Spain - I'd never sink all of my money into a house anywhere.

The only properties I see to rent around here for €250 per month are grotty little 1-bed apartments in really old and rundown blocks, or tiny townhouses in a bad state of repair. There are a few campo houses which look like concrete boxes to rent for around €350 per month. Anything most people would want to live in is €500 per month upwards.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> 1. Why pay out 200k? There are many excellent properties (quite often better) more realistically priced.
> 
> 2. I'd love to know what school you went to or is that "New Maths"? 600 per month = 7200 per year not 3000.
> 
> As you say each to her/his own.



Hate to do this to you Baldilocks but its your own schooling which should be questioned, particularly your reading ability!!!

Read the posts again, SLOWLY......spotted the bit yet re interest on lump sum!!!

Doh!!!!!


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> Exactly. I didn't sink all my money into a house in Spain - I'd never sink all of my money into a house anywhere.
> 
> The only properties I see to rent around here for €250 per month are grotty little 1-bed apartments in really old and rundown blocks, or tiny townhouses in a bad state of repair. There are a few campo houses which look like concrete boxes to rent for around €350 per month. Anything most people would want to live in is €500 per month upwards.



Yip they are the figures which work well

Some very nice places at €600 a month. A £250k lump sum pays interest covering about half that. Sweet.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

baldilocks said:


> 1. Why pay out 200k? There are many excellent properties (quite often better) more realistically priced.


Surely you mean cheaper, not more realistically. 200k for a 6 bedroom villa in prime position is not realistic. It ain't cheap either.

An apartment at 100k can be realistic, so can one at 300k.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Rabbitcat said:


> Hate to do this to you Baldilocks but its your own schooling which should be questioned, particularly your reading ability!!!
> 
> Read the posts again, SLOWLY......spotted the bit yet re interest on lump sum!!!
> 
> Doh!!!!!


It's your putting the second statement into a new paragraph that dissociated it with the statement about the interest and I am now assuming that you feel assured of getting over 2% interest *after* tax in UK and Spain.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Lol

Yip that old trick of writing two separate paragraphs in same post can be confusing!!!!

Now we have sorted your reading lets have your maths lesson......

£250k lump sum at 2% before tax gives around £3800 after tax. That equates to around €5200, which is well over half of the €7200 rent on a € 600 a month rental

Feel free to ask for any further "3 Rs" help!!!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Rabbitcat said:


> Lol
> 
> Yip that old trick of writing two separate paragraphs in same post can be confusing!!!!
> 
> ...


so you have now upped your 200k to 250k, that's some capital appreciation you have there.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

250 as per previous post but 200 also pays the half rent I referred too earlier. 

It's all good


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Rabbitcat said:


> Yip they are the figures which work well
> 
> Some very nice places at €600 a month. A £250k lump sum pays interest covering about half that. Sweet.


With an apartment costing 200k, I can make that in 8 weeks rental. Any additional weeks are cash in the bank. 

Sweeter.


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