# EEA family permit dual nationality



## boydepaname (Mar 26, 2012)

Hi, 

I am hoping someone can offer some insight into my situation. I have searched the forum but can't find anything that quite resembles my situation! 

I am dual French/British and plan to get married to my partner, a US citizen, currently here studying a Masters. I was born in, and have spent most of my life in the UK, with the exception of a couple of years spent studying/internship within the EU. I do not, and have never held a British passport, and have always travelled on a French one, and intend to use my French nationality for marriage. I currently work full time in a large accountancy firm. 

My question is whether my wife to be would be entitled to an EEA family permit on the basis of my french nationality? 
I understand there is a case currently (McCarthy) but I think my situation differs in that I am in full time employment, and I am of a different EU nationality (not sure if Ireland is a seperate case or not). 

I apologise in advance if there is a similar thread already...I did search and couldn't find one! 

Any insight/help would be most appreciated. 

Thanks


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

boydepaname said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am hoping someone can offer some insight into my situation. I have searched the forum but can't find anything that quite resembles my situation!
> 
> ...


I cannot see why your future wife can't get EEA family permit. You are clearly exercising your treaty rights in UK as a French national and the fact you are entitled to British passport is neither here or there. McCarthy case isn't relevant as it deals with British/Irish citizenship of someone born in Northern Ireland (if I recall correctly).


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## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

Joppa said:


> I cannot see why your future wife can't get EEA family permit. You are clearly exercising your treaty rights in UK as a French national and the fact you are entitled to British passport is neither here or there. McCarthy case isn't relevant as it deals with British/Irish citizenship of someone born in Northern Ireland (if I recall correctly).



Hi,
I have dual nationality Irish(Republic of Ireland)/British and I successfully applied for an EEA family permit for my Australian husband based on my Irish nationality. So you shouldn't have any problem applying on your French nationality.


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## boydepaname (Mar 26, 2012)

Sorry to re-start this thread, but from reading elsewhere, it seems that my situation may be changing, and would appreciate any opinions!

I came across this document, which states that EEA national will now not be applied if the person is also a British National.

egislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/1547/made]The Immigration (European Economic Area) (Amendment) Regulations 2012
Does this mean my fiance (wife by the point we apply) will have to apply with me as a British National? I believe I fulfill the new criteria, I just want to avoid the £800 if I can!

Thanks


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

boydepaname said:


> Sorry to re-start this thread, but from reading elsewhere, it seems that my situation may be changing, and would appreciate any opinions!
> 
> I came across this document, which states that EEA national will now not be applied if the person is also a British National.
> 
> ...


Where did you find that document (I've heard they were going to do this, but haven't seen anything official)-UKBA or Home Office site? I've tried to get a copy using the info you posted (I've bolded in your quote) but can't find anything. 

Can you point me at it?


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## boydepaname (Mar 26, 2012)

AnAmericanInScotland said:


> Where did you find that document (I've heard they were going to do this, but haven't seen anything official)-UKBA or Home Office site? I've tried to get a copy using the info you posted (I've bolded in your quote) but can't find anything.
> 
> Can you point me at it?


It wouldn't let me post the full link as I'm a newbie, so to get the full url, just add a 'w w w.l' on to the front!


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## ghaleb (Jun 27, 2012)

AnAmericanInScotland said:


> Where did you find that document (I've heard they were going to do this, but haven't seen anything official)-UKBA or Home Office site? I've tried to get a copy using the info you posted (I've bolded in your quote) but can't find anything.
> 
> Can you point me at it?


I am not allowed to post URLs, so please put www before the following link to see the intended changes.

legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/1547/made


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

ghaleb said:


> I am not allowed to post URLs, so please put www before the following link to see the intended changes.
> 
> legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/1547/made


Thanks! Came up perfectly, and now my eyeballs are twisting at how long that is! Here is a link to the document for the faster readers:

The Immigration (European Economic Area) (Amendment) Regulations 2012

I really don't read onscreen that well so it's going to take me some time to find the section you are talking about. Meanwhile hopefully someone like Jrge, Nyclon, or Joppa will be around to have a look as well.

I had heard that the thinking was that a dual UK-whichever citizen would henceforth be considered to be 'home' if living and working in the UK and therefore unable to obtain EEA FP or EEA2 for family members, but I hadn't seen anything official.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

Oh. I found it. At the very bottom, and yes, it does appear that this legislation is being done to:



> ...make it clear that a person will not be regarded as an EEA national where they are also a United Kingdom national.
> 
> This amendment of the definition of an EEA national reflects the ECJ’s judgment in the case of C-434/09 Shirley McCarthy v Secretary of State for the Home Department. Schedule 3 to these Regulations makes transitional provisions to address the position of persons who have acted in reliance on the previous definition


I need to go back and dig through that doc to find out when this comes into force, but I think it's safe to think that you and your fiancee will be applying for either a fiancee or a spouse (depending on when you apply, pre or post wedding) visa.

Erm, if you do it before the 9th, your fiancee would be under the pre-9 July rules for her immigration path, two year probationary period and then the ILR application.


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## Stressed1111 (Jun 14, 2012)

me 2 im struggling with your q too, ut have been told by the mods

that if u are british and lets say irish or french also and living in the UK , u can still apply using a EEA family permit

i didnt know that previously so have ended up paying the fee.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

Stressed1111 said:


> me 2 im struggling with your q too, ut have been told by the mods
> 
> that if u are british and lets say irish or french also and living in the UK , u can still apply using a EEA family permit
> 
> i didnt know that previously so have ended up paying the fee.


According to the legislation at the link provided, that is going to be changing, and British citizens in the UK will no longer be able to claim EEA over UKC for purposes of bringing in spouse and/or family. 

Read the link. All of, with particular attention to the first few bits and then the very last. Makes it pretty clear-a UKC will no longer be able to bring in a spouse and/or family on an EEA FP.

ETA: link

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/1547/made


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

boydepaname said:


> Sorry to re-start this thread, but from reading elsewhere, it seems that my situation may be changing, and would appreciate any opinions!
> 
> I came across this document, which states that EEA national will now not be applied if the person is also a British National.
> 
> ...


Hi, 

Unless you get married in the incoming days, and submit an application for an EEA-FP before July 16th (Take the time to read *Schedule 3* here: The Immigration (European Economic Area) (Amendment) Regulations 2012), you would be subject to the McCarthy judgment. InfoCuria

However, should you relocate to another EU State, then the *Surinder Singh Ruling* Casefinal would allow you to enjoy the Freedom of Movement. 

Animo
(Cheers)


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## ghaleb (Jun 27, 2012)

AnAmericanInScotland said:


> Oh. I found it. At the very bottom, and yes, it does appear that this legislation is being done to:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do not see any changes to the law here other than clarifying the definition of an EU national. The EU court judgement made it clear that an EU national should exercise his right of movement in order to be seen as EU resident. but if you stay in your country you are a resident of that county and the local law applies on you.... 

No changes in the law, only clarifying it.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

ghaleb said:


> I do not see any changes to the law here other than clarifying the definition of an EU national. The EU court judgement made it clear that an EU national should exercise his right of movement in order to be seen as EU resident. but if you stay in your country you are a resident of that county and the local law applies on you....
> 
> No changes in the law, only clarifying it.


I think there's more to it than that, although reading on the UKBA EEA pages would seem to indicate it has always been the rule.

Thing is, the dual citizenship thing-that apparently people have been using to circumvent UKBA fees, lol, and now, those new financial requirements.

I'm on my way to read the link to the McCarthy judgment that Jrge has posted, more info there, I'm sure.


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## Stressed1111 (Jun 14, 2012)

so after july 16th if u are a uk citizen and a citizen of another eu country but living in the uk , u will not be able to exercise your treaty rights...

wow so it sounds like europeans have more rights that the british in the UK.

why dont they just put the same fee on for the europeans and give them the same standards - major inequality


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## boydepaname (Mar 26, 2012)

Ugh, looks like I'm just gonna have to suck it up and pay the £800 or whatever...starts adding up when you add the £600 for the fiancee visa!

All this seems to do is penalise UK dual citizens...if it keeps going this way I might just have to renounce my UK citizenship!


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## mehemlynn (Nov 16, 2011)

boydepaname said:


> Ugh, looks like I'm just gonna have to suck it up and pay the £800 or whatever...starts adding up when you add the £600 for the fiancee visa!
> 
> All this seems to do is penalise UK dual citizens...if it keeps going this way I might just have to renounce my UK citizenship!


It isn't penalising UK dual citizens, although it is discriminatory against UK citizens in general.

In any citizenship paperwork I've ever seen it always says if you are living and working in a country you are a national of, then don't expect help from the other country that you are a national of (that's the gist at least). I'm actually surprised they let people get away with this at any point.


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## boydepaname (Mar 26, 2012)

mehemlynn said:


> It isn't penalising UK dual citizens, although it is discriminatory against UK citizens in general.
> 
> In any citizenship paperwork I've ever seen it always says if you are living and working in a country you are a national of, then don't expect help from the other country that you are a national of (that's the gist at least). I'm actually surprised they let people get away with this at any point.


I don't really want to get too bogged down in this, but I suppose it's the fact that I have never previously relied on my UK citizenship (I don't even hold a UK passport). So when people from other EU countries are able to apply for EEA permits and I have to fork out over £800, I guess I do feel slightly hard done by.


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## mehemlynn (Nov 16, 2011)

boydepaname said:


> I don't really want to get too bogged down in this, but I suppose it's the fact that I have never previously relied on my UK citizenship (I don't even hold a UK passport). So when people from other EU countries are able to apply for EEA permits and I have to fork out over £800, I guess I do feel slightly hard done by.


Joppa knows much more than I do about the EEA permits, check out the reply in this thread. http://www.expatforum.com/expats/br...onomic-area-amendment-regulations-2012-a.html


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## Jess22 (Dec 29, 2012)

SAMie said:


> Hi,
> I have dual nationality Irish(Republic of Ireland)/British and I successfully applied for an EEA family permit for my Australian husband based on my Irish nationality. So you shouldn't have any problem applying on your French nationality.


Hi Samie how ru? Have the rules changes about irish Brit dual nationality and eea? I applied for my partner and was refused in April due to them believing I'm British not irish!! Wish I'd appealed it? I'm hearing things about a McCarthy case which I don't know much about but I believe my case different? Im dual and most definitely irish I work and really want to start our life here!! Any advice would be great or I can give u my email and u could give me a hand of what to include? Xx


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## Jess22 (Dec 29, 2012)

boydepaname said:


> Ugh, looks like I'm just gonna have to suck it up and pay the £800 or whatever...starts adding up when you add the £600 for the fiancee visa!
> 
> All this seems to do is penalise UK dual citizens...if it keeps going this way I might just have to renounce my UK citizenship!


Does anyone know any info on renouncing Brit citizenship? I've been told to do it by lawyer and keep irish but don't know x


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## SAMie (Mar 22, 2012)

Hi Jess,
We got an EEA family permit for my husband in October 2011 and another one in April 2012 without any issue but I was travelling on an Irish passport, not a British one. I do believe that the rules have changed now but I'm not up to speed on it because my husband & I have now left the UK and returned to Australia. 

Perhaps it depends on how you obtained your dual nationality. I was born and lived in Ireland for most of my life and only have British citizenship through my mother. 

There is some information on the UK Border Agency about family members of British citizens being able to apply for EEA permit if they are working or residing in another EEA member state - I don't know if that would be an option for your and your partner but perhaps worth a read - UK Border Agency | EUN02 - EEA Family permits

Sorry I couldn't offer more help. 
Sam


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## Brighty (Jan 2, 2013)

Hi jess we are having the very same problem i was speaking to an advisor today and she seems to think the good friday agreement can back up our case if refused did you find you any more info?


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