# Mystic Meg/Financial guru required!



## KG5 (Mar 21, 2016)

Afternoon all

Absolutely no idea how to progress with our financial matters so looking for anyone on here who feels they can provide advice or even have an opinion

- Family moved to Spain in the summer, 2 kids now in primary school here
- I am paid in the UK but travel a lot
- Have our home plus a small holiday property in UK, both let out
- Considering staying here permanently
- Have NIE, padron etc

Questions that keep me awake of a night!

- Should we sell up in the UK?
- Should we buy here? If so we would need to sell our main home as I don't have any real savings. FYI - we feel as a family that it is worth the additional costs ie purchase costs/taxes etc versus renting to have a home of our own
- My employer is prepared to pay me in Spain - and go through the various paperwork in order to do so (I know I need to do something on this)
- Is there a good time to do all this? (considering Brexit, Catalan referendum's potential impact on whole Spanish economy, and other financial considerations like interest rates, property market prospects etc).

Shoot...please!!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

If in doubt, it's usually best to leave things as they are...


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

You say your family moved to spain.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Opps. As you are living in Spain, kids in school, then you are tax resident now in Spain and normally that means you must declare your worldwide income here. Also you should be completing Form 720 to inform Hacienda of your assets, house, in UK


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Perhaps the OP feels more comfortable sitting on the fence ( should I finally settle for Spain or return to the UK ? )
until he or she knows for sure what the final impact will be come Final Brexit on the 29th March 2019.

I reckon there's been an awful lot of people sitting on fences waiting for the British & EU Politicians to sort out
what Brexit really means for British Expats in the EU.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Juan C said:


> Opps. As you are living in Spain, kids in school, then you are tax resident now in Spain and normally that means you must declare your worldwide income here. Also you should be completing Form 720 to inform Hacienda of your assets, house, in UK


Plus they must all sign on the list of foreigners and get their residency certificates.


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## KG5 (Mar 21, 2016)

I think the difference in the first two responses highlights the reason I am struggling to get my head around this.

Thanks for the responses everyone

(and we have our NIE and padron as originally stated but that's it so far)


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

KG5 said:


> I think the difference in the first two responses highlights the reason I am struggling to get my head around this.
> 
> Thanks for the responses everyone
> 
> (and we have our NIE and padron as originally stated but that's it so far)


So you need to get the tax situation sorted out because if not it will sort you out!


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## KG5 (Mar 21, 2016)

Pesky Wesky said:


> So you need to get the tax situation sorted out because if not it will sort you out!


Yes, officially, but the more I find out the more I realise many people have kept this set up for years.

This includes expats but even Spanish people who went to work in the UK, have returned but still work remotely.

I know the rules but as I am paying tax in the UK and travelling a lot, rightly or wrongly, I don't feel quite as concerned. I know some of you will suggest I should though!


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

The main thing for you to consider is what would make you and your family happy, living here in Spain or returning to UK. Wherever you live you will have to abide by the rules and pay your dues. That is putting it very simply but, IMHO quality of life is very important.

A few facts for you. There are several criteria for becoming resident in Spain. 

The first milestone is 90 days. After 90 days you are obliged to sign on the aliens register, extranjeros, this is called getting residecia by most people. The criteria for entry on this register is enough income or savings so as not to be a burden on the state and independent health care policy.

The next milestone is 183 days, not necessarily continuous, in any one fiscal year, Jan-Dec, to become tax resident. This is automatic and not within your control. Also another test for tax residency is your centre of economic activity, so if your wife and children live here and your children are in school here then is is pretty much an open and shut case.

When you are tax resident in Spain you need to declare all your worldwide income which would be your salary and UK property rental income. In the first instance your UK property rental income is taxed in UK, that is UK law. However you also need to declare it in Spain and any tax due is reduced by the amount of tax already paid in UK and also Spain does not include 100% of such income for tax purposes. As to your salary, there are Spanish tax allowances that reduce your tax burden but they are not as generous as UK. As someone has also mentioned, you must declare any assets that have a value of 50,000€ or more in 3 different areas, property, savings and investments, failure to do so can result in heavy penalties. You are not taxed on these assets, at the moment, it is only for information and anyway the UK and Spain tell each other about such assets.

Having said all that and although you will probably end up paying slightly more tax than you are paying at the moment, the benefits of living in Spain far outweigh the negatives IMHO. You also need to keep in mind that through these taxes you are aiding your new adopted country.

If you do nothing, you will probably not get a knock on your door anytime soon, unless someone dobbs you in, but the clock is ticking and you need to get all your ducks lined up.

Anyway that is my fivepenn´th and good luck with your life here in Spain, there are lots of folks on this forum who will offer you sound advice and encouragement to guide you through the red tape here.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

KG5 said:


> Yes, officially, but the more I find out the more I realise many people have kept this set up for years.
> 
> This includes expats but even Spanish people who went to work in the UK, have returned but still work remotely.
> 
> I know the rules but as I am paying tax in the UK and travelling a lot, rightly or wrongly, I don't feel quite as concerned. I know some of you will suggest I should though!


Nobody's perfect and it's hard to do things legally when you know others don't, BUT if you want to be part of Spain on a permanent basis and want to make things as easy as possible for your family then my advice is to do what you should do legally. Besides which if you use facilities (lights, roads, public gardens and spaces...) here what's the problem in paying for them?
Nobody knows what will happen when Brexit hits for sure. How can we when the politicians themselves who led us here don't know? However, the tighter you are legally the better position you will be in to fight your corner. Spain is very bureaucratic so if you leave a paper trail, all the better for you.

Besides which this is a public moderated forum and posts that tell you that you can get away with XYZ will probably, and should be deleted


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## KG5 (Mar 21, 2016)

*Thanks*

Some sound advice everyone - thanks sincerely


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

stevesainty said:


> The main thing for you to consider is what would make you and your family happy, living here in Spain or returning to UK. Wherever you live you will have to abide by the rules and pay your dues. That is putting it very simply but, IMHO quality of life is very important.
> 
> A few facts for you. There are several criteria for becoming resident in Spain.
> 
> ...


Just as a side note and while tut, tutting such behaviour myself. One of my compatriots in Spain; who
kept his UK licensed plate car under the radar; by doing the odd ferry trips back to the UK for MOT etc.
His excuse being 'well I'm only here temporary' as I consider myself temp not permanent in Spain'.
Recently returned to the UK to take up a new job there and treated himself to a brand new car
( along the lines of new job, new car ) into the bargain.
Consequently he went down to his Toyota UK dealership and ( thanks to the new scrappage scheme
recently introduced in the UK this month ) was given £3,500 for his 11 year old
Voltswagen Golf with 170,000 miles on the clock, not to mention the number of dents.
Against a brand new Toyota Auris !!!

Apparently if he had changed his VW Golf to Spanish plates, he would be lucky if Toyota would give him
a £100 for his old car and even then they might have quibbled about him having to put it back onto
UK plates first.

Suffice to say that - as I was never slow in saying - you really should get your car onto Spanish plates !!

He's been taking the Mickey on Whatsapp, ever since - saying lucky I never followed your advice 
and how much will Spain give you for your old car ??


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## KG5 (Mar 21, 2016)

Williams2 said:


> Just as a side note and while tut, tutting such behaviour myself. One of my compatriots in Spain; who
> kept his UK licensed plate car under the radar; by doing the odd ferry trips back to the UK for MOT etc.
> His excuse being 'well I'm only here temporary' as I consider myself temp not permanent in Spain'.
> Recently returned to the UK to take up a new job there and treated himself to a
> ...


We have run the gauntlet with Trafico and eventually bought a Spanish car after 3 trips there.

I was stopped twice in the first month here and whilst they looked threatening initially, the local guard were friendly, explained we couldn't stay here on English plates and said we had 3 months. the next time they stopped us they realised it was us again just wave us on, but it was enough to make us go to the time and expense of getting a second hand car here.


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