# Help: Birthright (Jure Sanguinis)



## Urago (May 20, 2009)

I was born & live in England.
_I only have a current British passport_

My father was born & lives in England.
_His British passport expired in 2011 and he has not renewed it_
_His Italian passport expired in 1985 (or so) and he has not renewed it_

My grandfather was born in Italy and lives in England.
_My grandfather is alive, and only has a current Italian passport_
My grandmother was born in Italy and died in England.
_My grandmother is dead, and only had an Italian passport_

Do I have a claim for jure sanguinis before I start to investigate how to claim birth certificates from Italy etc.?

Yes, I want to acquire an Italian passport due to Brexit. 

Thank you very much for any help.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Appears so.

No need for you to worry about grandparents.

Do you know if your father was ever registered with the consulate? I'm assuming his Italian passport was issued by an UK consulate. They should have his file. You might already be on it. 

If not all you really need is your birth certificate and maybe proof your father didn't give up his citizenship before you were born.


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## ilario (Jun 30, 2016)

You can read this:

http://www.esteri.it/mae/en/italiani_nel_mondo/serviziconsolari/cittadinanza.html


Riconoscimento della cittadinanza italiana jure sanguinis â€” Comune di Piacenza


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

As background, before 1983 the United Kingdom had true "birthright citizenship" with very few exceptions (children of diplomats, for example). Back in the 1980s Italian passports lasted 5 years (for adults at least) as I understand it, so if your father's most recent Italian passport expired in 1985 then clearly he was born before 1983. So that's how he acquired U.K. citizenship -- and retained his Italian citizenship, passed to him from his parents when he was born.

Your father can renew his Italian passport, of course. As NickZ suggests, depending on when you were born your father might have already registered your birth. Of course you can ask him. If he did, then you can obtain a copy of your Italian birth certificate and make a passport (or _carta d'identità_ -- it costs less) appointment at your local Italian consulate. If not, then to get your birth registered -- assuming you're now 18 years or older (too old for your father to do it for you) -- you would need to make a citizenship recognition appointment with your local consulate. It'll cost 300 euro, but you'll have very little documentation to submit. Just an official, long form copy of your U.K. birth certificate, really. If you are (or were) married, or have children, or both, then you'll need some extra paperwork to submit to document those life events. Also, your father will probably need to sign a form at the consulate stating that he never acquired a foreign citizenship (except the U.K. citizenship he was born with). But that's it, really -- it's pretty simple since your father, at least, is a reasonably well documented Italian citizen already.


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## Urago (May 20, 2009)

NickZ said:


> Appears so.
> 
> No need for you to worry about grandparents.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply.

I'm looking at his passport in front of me.

His passport was issued by "CONSOLATO GENERALE D'ITALIA - LONDRA"

I asked if he registered my birth at an Italian consulate he said he never did.

May I ask, how does one prove that he didn't give up his citizenship before I was born?
Would he have to accompany me to an Italian consulate and sign a declaration?



ilario said:


> You can read this:


Thanks for links.



BBCWatcher said:


> As background, before 1983 the United Kingdom had true "birthright citizenship" with very few exceptions (children of diplomats, for example). Back in the 1980s Italian passports lasted 5 years (for adults at least) as I understand it, so if your father's most recent Italian passport expired in 1985 then clearly he was born before 1983. So that's how he acquired U.K. citizenship -- and retained his Italian citizenship, passed to him from his parents when he was born.
> 
> Your father can renew his Italian passport, of course. As NickZ suggests, depending on when you were born your father might have already registered your birth. Of course you can ask him. If he did, then you can obtain a copy of your Italian birth certificate and make a passport (or _carta d'identità_ -- it costs less) appointment at your local Italian consulate. If not, then to get your birth registered -- assuming you're now 18 years or older (too old for your father to do it for you) -- you would need to make a citizenship recognition appointment with your local consulate. It'll cost 300 euro, but you'll have very little documentation to submit. Just an official, long form copy of your U.K. birth certificate, really. If you are (or were) married, or have children, or both, then you'll need some extra paperwork to submit to document those life events. Also, your father will probably need to sign a form at the consulate stating that he never acquired a foreign citizenship (except the U.K. citizenship he was born with). But that's it, really -- it's pretty simple since your father, at least, is a reasonably well documented Italian citizen already.


Thanks for the detailed reply. You've put my mind at ease and seem to make this process seem easier than I first thought.

I have got a "certified copy of an entry" from the "General Register Office" of my long birth certificate. Would this do? Would I need to have it translated into Italian and apostille (legalised?) ? 

Am single, no children so no extra paperwork.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Urago said:


> I have got a "certified copy of an entry" from the "General Register Office" of my long birth certificate. Would this do?


Yes, it should, but see below to make sure the translation matches whatever birth record you have. If neither translation template matches what you have, then try to get a new, official copy of your birth record that does.



> Would I need to have it translated into Italian and apostille (legalised?) ?


Yes, but the Italian consulate in London offers some help here. They provide a translation template ("modello traduzione in Italiano Certificato di Nascita") in two versions: old type of birth certificate ("vecchio tipo") and new type ("nuovo tipo"). Choose the translation template that matches your birth certificate's format, complete the translation on your own (fill in your name, etc.), _triple_ check everything (and ideally have somebody else check to make sure you didn't misspell your own name, for example), and you're all set. You shouldn't have to hire a translator, and you don't have to translate the apostille.

To answer your other question, yes, just drag your father along to your citizenship recognition appointment so that he can attest (under penalty of perjury, under Italian law) that he didn't acquire another, foreign citizenship before August 15, 1992. He'll probably sign a form to that effect, and that's that. Done and dusted.

To make an appointment for citizenship recognition at the consulate in London click here ("PrenotaOnline"). I'm assuming you reside in that consulate's jurisdiction. (There's also an Italian consulate in Edinburgh that serves residents of Scotland and Northern Ireland.)


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

When where you born? Before or after the the issue of the passport?


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## Urago (May 20, 2009)

BBCWatcher said:


> Yes, it should, but see below to make sure the translation matches whatever birth record you have. If neither translation template matches what you have, then try to get a new, official copy of your birth record that does.
> 
> 
> Yes, but the Italian consulate in London offers some help here. They provide a translation template ("modello traduzione in Italiano Certificato di Nascita") in two versions: old type of birth certificate ("vecchio tipo") and new type ("nuovo tipo"). Choose the translation template that matches your birth certificate's format, complete the translation on your own (fill in your name, etc.), _triple_ check everything (and ideally have somebody else check to make sure you didn't misspell your own name, for example), and you're all set. You shouldn't have to hire a translator, and you don't have to translate the apostille.
> ...


Thanks you very much for the links. The birth certificate I have is the same layout.

I signed up for the PrenotaOnline system without success. Never got a confirmation email. If I don't receive one next week (after emailing them) I will create a new email address and try again that way.



NickZ said:


> When where you born? Before or after the the issue of the passport?


I was born after the issue of the passport.


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## Urago (May 20, 2009)

OK. I need some help, please.

I have got all the documents I need:
* My birth certificate
* Father's birth certificate
* Parent's marriage certificate
* Statement from National Archives that my grandfather never naturalised
* Statement from the UK Home Office that my grandfather never naturalised

I am having them translated. When they are returned to me, would I need to see a notary to have them legalised and then further apostilled?

I am reading conflicting information:

On the main web page it just says having it translated into Italian - nothing about legalisation.

"The translation of British documents will be certified by this citizenship office."

But then if you go to the translation web page under stage 3 it mentions:

"have the documents translated by professional UK translators, and then legalised by a British notary public and by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office who will subsequently apostil it."

So can anyone help me whether or not you need to have the documents further legalised by a British notary public and the FCO or would the translation be just enough. I am having it translated by a company.


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## Italia-Mx (Jan 14, 2009)

It has been my experience that documents which were created outside of Italy need only be legalized by the consulate having jurisdiction of the place where the record was created if you are applying in Italy. If you're applying at an Italian consulate anywhere in the world, your documents need only to be translated into Italian and apostilled.


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

Urago said:


> ...
> 
> Yes, I want to acquire an Italian passport due to Brexit.
> 
> Thank you very much for any help.


The not-so-funny thing about this is that there is looming in the future the distinct possibility that Italy could also withdraw from the EU.

Okay, maybe less than 20% likelihood within 5 years, but still, a chance.


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## Urago (May 20, 2009)

Italia-Mx said:


> It has been my experience that documents which were created outside of Italy need only be legalized by the consulate having jurisdiction of the place where the record was created if you are applying in Italy. If you're applying at an Italian consulate anywhere in the world, your documents need only to be translated into Italian and apostilled.


You are correct! Thank you for your help.

The Consulate officer accepted my application and said my documents will be sent to Italy to be processed. Could not give me a specific time frame. Interestingly enough it was mentioned there was a recent high demand. 

Quick mention of welcome to the Italian community and we will update your status from "foreign" to "Italian" on our records.

Said I would receive an email 'sometime' next year of what the next steps are.



accbgb said:


> The not-so-funny thing about this is that there is looming in the future the distinct possibility that Italy could also withdraw from the EU.
> 
> Okay, maybe less than 20% likelihood within 5 years, but still, a chance.


How ironic that would be!


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