# Spouse Visa, refusal letter



## philemon_bodiba (Oct 14, 2014)

Hi 

My wife and child visa applications were refused. I think they were refused only because a p60 was not included with the application but everything else was there. I'm very frustrated that a p60 could be a reason for refusal. And I would like someone to *strongly state* that a missing p60 can't lead refusal.

Here's a refusal letter below:

Your Sponsor is not exempt from financial requirements as defined by paragraph E-ECP 3.3. I am not able to take into account any potential employment you have avaiable to you in the UK or any offer of financial support from third parties. Your sponsor was also employed by Citi Group from 31/08/2012 to 23/01/2014 earning £xxxxx (This is above the minimum requirement). In order to meet the financial requirements of the Rules your sponsor needs a gross income of at least £22,400 per annum. 

You say in Appendix 2 that your sponsor is employed with SAV Credit Limited since 13/02/2014 and earn gross salary of £xxxxx (way above the minimum requirement) per annum. In respect of salaried employment in the UK, all the following evidence (original documents) must be provided: 

- The p60 for the relevant period or period (if issued) 
- The wage Slips covering: 
a) a period ofg 6 months prior to the date of application if the applicant has been employed by their employer for at least 6 months; or 
b) A period of 12 months prior to the date of the application if the applicant has been employed by their current employer for less than 6 months 
- A letter from the employer confirming: 
a) The person's employment and gross annual salary 
b) the length of their employment 
c) the period over which they have been or were paid the level of salary relied upon in the application and 
d) the type of employment (permanent,fixed-term contract or agency) 

- A signed copy of employment 
- Monthly Personal bank statements corresponding to the same period as the wage slips, showing that the salary has been paid into an account in the name of the person or in the name of the person and their partner jointly. 

These documents are specified in Immigration Rules in Appendix FM-SE and must be provided. You have not submitted all of the required documentation to demostrate your spouse's income is as claimed, 

I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of Appendix FM of the Immigration Rules (E-ECP.3.1)


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

What documents DID you provide? 

Was you P60 issued to you when you applied for the visa?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

They don't state it was just P60 that wasn't submitted. Are you sure you had all the required documents for the dates and in the format specified, other than your P60?


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## philemon_bodiba (Oct 14, 2014)

These are the documents I've submitted:

Six months payslips with bank statements corresponding the period,
Contract of employment, 
Letter from my employer (containing all the information required)

N.B. The bank statements and the payslips we less than 28 days including the employer's letter..


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## philemon_bodiba (Oct 14, 2014)

_shel said:


> What documents DID you provide?
> 
> Was you P60 issued to you when you applied for the visa?



I've applied in September and was of the notion that the 2013-2014 (April) p60 would not be relevant.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Not having read through all your supporting documents, it's impossible to pinpoint why you were denied. Take them to a professional advisor and let them have a good look. Please don't show scans of them here.


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## philemon_bodiba (Oct 14, 2014)

Thanks, Joppa

But, lastly, in your blatantly honest opinion, would a missing p60 alone lead to a visa refusal even though my letter of employment states that I earn in the region of £24,000 per annum?

Thanks...


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Under which category did you apply?


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Yes it can if you had it available and didnt send it. P60 is further evidence of expected income if you are in the same job.


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## philemon_bodiba (Oct 14, 2014)

Crawford said:


> Under which category did you apply?


I've applied under Category A.


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## philemon_bodiba (Oct 14, 2014)

_shel said:


> Yes it can if you had it available and didnt send it. P60 is further evidence of expected income if you are in the same job.


But a p60 is not a mandatory requirement.
Would you still say had he applied under Category B and provided payslips for 12 months he could still be refused?


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## andrie (Jun 19, 2014)

You are the second person this week who applied in South Africa and been refused due to a P60. I wonder why.


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

andrie said:


> You are the second person this week who applied in South Africa and been refused due to a P60. I wonder why.


They do like their P60s but I think overall the situation is more and more becoming such that they are refusing people for a single document, and sometimes people end up being refused just because some vital part of their application has been overlooked. With appeals taking so long and complaints not necessarily getting a response, most people choose to reapply.

That being said, it's quite harsh, being refused over a single document. However, I am not sure trying to complain would work in this case as the document was indeed missing.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

ashkevron said:


> They do like their P60s but I think overall the situation is more and more becoming such that they are refusing people for a single document, and sometimes people end up being refused just because some vital part of their application has been overlooked. With appeals taking so long and complaints not necessarily getting a response, most people choose to reapply.
> 
> That being said, it's quite harsh, being refused over a single document. However, I am not sure trying to complain would work in this case as the document was indeed missing.



The OP was not refused over a single document.


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

nyclon said:


> The OP was not refused over a single document.


Oh, apologies if I misunderstood, I thought the OP said the only thing they failed to provide was P60.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

ashkevron said:


> Oh, apologies if I misunderstood, I thought the OP said the only thing they failed to provide was P60.


The OP made that assumption.


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

But I don't understand, why do you think it's an assumption? Isn't it very likely that they were indeed refused just because of P60? After all, the OP also stated they submitted everything else and even gave a list of the documents submitted?:confused2: 

I may be tired, am I missing some vital part of the post here...


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## philemon_bodiba (Oct 14, 2014)

I wonder if some the ECO's outside the UK are British nationals and understand the English language properly because it's been stated that:

'2A. (i) In respect of salaried employment in the UK (paragraph 2 of this Appendix), statutory or contractual maternity, paternity, adoption or sick pay in the UK (paragraph 5 or 6 of this Appendix), or a director's salary paid to a self-employed person (paragraph 9 of this Appendix),* the applicant may, in addition to the payslips and personal bank statements required under that paragraph, submit the P60 for the relevant period(s) of employment relied upon (if issued). If they do not, the Entry Clearance Officer or Secretary of State may grant the application if otherwise satisfied that the requirements of this Appendix relating to that employment are met.* The Entry Clearance Officer or Secretary of State may request that the applicant submit the document(s) in accordance with paragraph D of this Appendix.'


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

The notable words there are........
_
if otherwise satisfied that the requirements of this Appendix relating to that employment are met_


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

philemon_bodiba said:


> I wonder if some the ECO's outside the UK are British nationals and understand the English language properly because it's been stated that:
> 
> '2A. (i) In respect of salaried employment in the UK (paragraph 2 of this Appendix), statutory or contractual maternity, paternity, adoption or sick pay in the UK (paragraph 5 or 6 of this Appendix), or a director's salary paid to a self-employed person (paragraph 9 of this Appendix),* the applicant may, in addition to the payslips and personal bank statements required under that paragraph, submit the P60 for the relevant period(s) of employment relied upon (if issued). If they do not, the Entry Clearance Officer or Secretary of State may grant the application if otherwise satisfied that the requirements of this Appendix relating to that employment are met.* The Entry Clearance Officer or Secretary of State may request that the applicant submit the document(s) in accordance with paragraph D of this Appendix.'


I don't think they are all British at all, they certainly weren't all British 10 years ago when one applied directly in the embassy and I don't see why that would have changed now but I don't think that's the problem. ECOs are heavily overworked, they go through god knows how many applications a day and they are after all only human. So it's a bit unreasonable to expect them to go through 50-100 documents in 10-15 minutes they have to make their decision and never make a mistake. The problem is that there is no quick complaints/appeals procedure and that it takes a long time. Ideally, since most of the money collected through visa application fees is pure profit, more people should be hired to go through the applications and they should be given more time in which to consider a single application. There should also be an easy and speedy way to review cases where the applicants believe they were rejected incorrectly, even if there was an additional charge for this service. I could be wrong but that's what I think...


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

I agree with most of that but as for visa application fees being profit not so, the department runs at a loss. One ECO will be on a salary of £16-£30k regardless where they work in the world, double that for actual employment costs taking into account employers NI and pensions etc. Plus buildings, utilities, equipment, contracting services etc. It certainly isn't making a profit. 

Though they are definitely overworked. I know someone who works in the Liverpool office, he told us horror stories last year of the workload and empty posts that cant be filled due to a blockage on hiring due to the cuts. So he is doing his own cases and as many more as he can manage from unallocated cases. 

That said though depending on the quality, verifiability and if the other documents where actually included and in the required format means the statement I highlighted above may come into play. 

Personally I dont think them being British or not has any bearing on it. If they were unable to fulfil the requirements of the job ie speak english they wouldn't be hired.


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

There was something about it I've read in the newspapers a couple of years ago but I can't find the link now, it may not exist any more. All I could find was this

http://s9.postimg.org/v9gh5tedb/Clip.jpg

I clipped the image a bit but the document seems genuine. Don't know how things look when other types of visa applications from outside the UK add up but they don't seem to be losing much money if this is anything to go by... I've provided them with a 440% profit on my ILR application in October last year


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Australia charge around £2,000 for skilled migrant visa.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Australia has just increased spouse visa fees, it is now £3930 half that again for each child.

I paid almost £2k in 2009  they are rapidly increasing all their fees.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Makes UK fees quite reasonable in comparison, but isn't it the case that Australian fees include all future applications up to permanent residency?


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Australia charge around £2,000 for skilled migrant visa.


Well yes, but they have to find the funding somewhere to pay the people who are chasing crocodiles out of the shallows so beaches are safe and £2,000 is hardly enough to train a skilled crocodile hunter 

... I'm losing it, this 10 hour work session seems to be taking its toll...

Seriously though, as my ex-boyfriend used to say, let's try and look up to the people, countries and rules which try to make things and life better, not worse.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Yes for spouses. Not so for some skilled visas but that fee for spouses covers the second application to ensure the relationship is ongoing. Forgot that had to be paid again in the UK, soneti more than one more time if the applicant doesnt have enough time in the UK. 

Expensive stuff this migration lark. The fees in themselves should be a sort of pre payment for health & welfare!


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

> Expensive stuff this migration lark. The fees in themselves should be a sort of pre payment for health & welfare!


 We need an animated smiley for someone enthusiastically nodding their head!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Temporary partner visa (subclass 309) first, then permanent partner visa (subclass 100) 2 years later in Australia. Total cost A$4,630 (around £2,513). This is applying outside Australia. In-country application costs more, $6,865 (£3,733). 
Naturalisation fee is modest, only $260 (£141).


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