# Boats, outboards and trailers?



## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I'm told the maximum sized outboard motor one is allowed (for inland lakes/rivers) to have without a licence is 4 hp....... firstly, is this correct and is there a limit on boat size and/or type as well please?

Also, what requirements are there here for a trailer to pull said boat please?


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## Waterdog (Oct 24, 2011)

*Wrong Place*



travelling-man said:


> I'm told the maximum sized outboard motor one is allowed (for inland lakes/rivers) to have without a licence is 4 hp....... firstly, is this correct and is there a limit on boat size and/or type as well please?
> 
> Also, what requirements are there here for a trailer to pull said boat please?


As you don't appear to be getting much advice here have you thought of launching this thread on the Yachting & Boating World (YBW) Liveaboard Forum where they have specific threads on boating activities in Portugal - hope this helps.

Woof


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Thanks. I'm slowly getting info from elsewhere on this but will look into the forum you suggest if I need to.


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## Janina k (Nov 30, 2011)

*Reply*

Hello

A friend has recently found a house and as it's close to a dam he wanted to know about fishing from a boat. We found at the camara at Pampilhosa da Serra that he could use his boat only with an electric motor due to issues of pollution. This information is correct for fishing from a boat in the Pampilhosa da Serra area what others may camara's do i can't comment on. 

Fred


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I want to be able to fish waters such as the Zezere & Cabril etc and having spent a large part of today speaking to GNR (who were very helpful indeed), boaters and dealers, it appears I'm limited to a maximum boat length of 6 metres (which is more than enough and an outboard of 6 hp and 4 stroke only.

However, both boat and motor need to be registered with some Government authority or other but I don't yet know who or where and/or at what cost. 

I was also told the trailer doesn't have to be insured but the boat does and that rather surprises me because I seem to remember someone posting here that trailers need to be insured.

I'll keep plugging away at it though!


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Try your Regional Sports Fishing Association Federação Portuguesa de Pesca Desportiva :: providing your driving licence covers trailer, weight etc then regs are the same as UK so easier to look up, difference here the trailer is registered at the Conservatoria but only needs separate licence plate and yearly IPO if +3500kg.
Inland and reservoirs definatly no 2 stroke some reservoirs electric

Trailer, motor at Conservatoria, it's the tow bar (which musdt be approved model) you need to notify insurance company might increase premium a bit


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

OK. I'm slowly getting to the bottom of all this so thought I'd give you an update on what I've been told.

If you don't have and/or don't want to do the training and exam, you're limited to a boat length of no more than 5 metres, an outboard of not more than 6 hp and it appears the boat should be registered, have papers and be inspected once every 5 years. 

The trailer does not need to be inspected but the car towing the trailer should be insured for towing and the boat should also be insured. 

The boat needs to be equipped with the following: 

- Lifejackets,
- Knive with rounded tip,
- Mirror/ Signal,
- Horn,
- First Aid Kit
- Anchor
- 30m anchor cable
- Fire extinguisher 1kg by the engine,
- Paddle/oars or second engine,
- Waterproof Flashlight with spare batteries and 1 spare bulb,
- Bailer,
- Compass.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Think majority of those items are for the sea and coastal waters not inland


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

canoeman said:


> Think majority of those items are for the sea and coastal waters not inland


I've had the same info from four separate sources now so I'd guess it's accurate. 

I'm also told that those who want to use larger outboards can go to the UK and do an International Certificate of Competence which a fairly easy one-day course / test and also do an additional multiple-choice test (I assume you can do it at the same time as the practical one) on the "road signs" etc used on canals and rivers. This adds another line to your certificate called the "CEVNI Endorsement".


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## Waterdog (Oct 24, 2011)

*Boat Safety Equipment*



travelling-man said:


> OK. I'm slowly getting to the bottom of all this so thought I'd give you an update on what I've been told.
> 
> If you don't have and/or don't want to do the training and exam, you're limited to a boat length of no more than 5 metres, an outboard of not more than 6 hp and it appears the boat should be registered, have papers and be inspected once every 5 years.
> 
> ...


Know nothing about trailers.

Re boats, have a look at Lagos Navigators Home Page. They have loads of info on boat regulations & safety equipment.

Their primary interests are off-shore but they do venture into the rivers & into the rias.

Point to bear in mind, much of what is on a boat is governed by its flag of registration & understand that the RYA has just (surprisingly) established with the Portuguese Government that foreign flagged vessels spending less than 6 months in Portuguese Waters do not have to conform to Portuguese Maritime safety regulations or taxes but must pay light dues (€2 for 6 months or €11.5 a whole year), if they intend to venture off shore or use the rivers & rias.

Rather, in the case of UK flagged vessels, they should observe UK Maritime regulations.

The rub is that there are no regulations for small, pleasure UK flagged vessel.

Nevertheless, common sense would suggest that it could be a good idea to carry some safety items (extinguishers etc.).

UK flagged small (under 13mtrs) pleasure craft are not subject to inspection in either the UK or Portugal. 

Re qualifications - the UK ICC is fully recognised in Portugal as the only qualification required.

Again - help this helps with your quest - suspect many tourists (including the Lagos Navigators) will be interested in your final findings.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

The law on maritime boats and registration has been in place for ages and mirror images cars i.e. a non Resident visiting Portugal can keep boat or car in Portugal for a max of 6 months, although in the case of EU Citizens they personally can only stay 3 months, like cars unless you want problems when registering they also require a EU CE.

Inland craft appear to come under Cat 5 but all published information I have or can see applies to proficiency tests and safety equipment for coastal and offshore, waiting to hear back from a friend who keeps a boat here


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

The more I look at it, the more I think I'll just take the easy way out and just stick to smaller than 5 metres and 6 hp and make sure the boat is equipped as required....... I only want a small boat to do a bit of fishing and don't plan to ever use it for anything more complicated than that so it's not really worth going to a lot of trouble. 

The biggest nuisance is having to take it to Figueira da Foz once every 5 years but even that isn't too much of a schlep.

One thing I do notice is my part of the Zezere seems to have more unregistered (small) boats than registered and that makes me suspect the situation isn't particularly well policed but I'll try to stick to the rules anyway.

I know that both boat trailer and boat need to registered and insured but does anyone know if the trailer need any kind of an annual test or inspection please?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Do check on regulations for fishing from a boat, these regulated areas can be a minefield here


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I guess that'll be detailed o my fishing licence but will check it..... thanks.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I also notice a fair number of floats in my area that I assume are for crayfish traps...... does anyone know if these have to licenced or can one simply drop a trap overboard at the beginning of the fishing day and collect it at the end?

An occasional crayfish salad is a delight!


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## Waterdog (Oct 24, 2011)

canoeman said:


> The law on maritime boats and registration has been in place for ages and mirror images cars i.e. a non Resident visiting Portugal can keep boat or car in Portugal for a max of 6 months, although in the case of EU Citizens they personally can only stay 3 months, like cars unless you want problems when registering they also require a EU CE.
> 
> Inland craft appear to come under Cat 5 but all published information I have or can see applies to proficiency tests and safety equipment for coastal and offshore, waiting to hear back from a friend who keeps a boat here


Believe foreign plated cars are required to matriculate after 6 months but foreign flagged boat doesn't have to change their flag of registration or pay matriculation irrespective of their time in Portuguese Waters.

A foreign flagged vessel is required to pay circulation tax after 183 days contiguous in Portuguese Waters in a calendar year - Portuguese flagged boats do not enjoy this concession.

Unlike cars there is no mandatory insurance required for a boat unless they wish to enter a marinas but they do require ships papers, issued by their flagged country.

Re boats - many of the rules revolve around the flag of registration. The residency of the owner/skipper (who may have no other asset in Portugal) doesn't seem to enter into the equation.

I currently have a boat in the UK & am not, nor have ever been, a Portuguese resident. Although at one time I did think of relocating to Portugal. I did have a British Flagged off shore cruiser (under 13m) in Portugal for a some time (over a year) so unless things have changed, I am reasonably sure of my facts.

Travelling man - just seen your latest - during my time, policing of maritime regulations for foreign flagged vessel was non-existent but again this may have changed.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Don't believe Portuguese eat crayfish because of pollution, they'd far rather eat dubois eastern prawns more likely to be Lamprey traps? 

*Foreign visitors* can keep their boats in Portugal for up to 6 months but they must register with Port Authority and Customs they might also be liable to a tax similar to Road Tax, unlike cars even a 1 day stopover at another countries Marina resets the 183 days, I believe though like cars the same does not apply if you are a Resident , latest information from various schools say rules and regulations are enforced even to the necessity of carrying passport


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

canoeman said:


> Don't believe Portuguese eat crayfish because of pollution,


I'm surprised the Zezere and Cabril are polluted to that degree as they both hold trout but you could be right...... I'll pull up a trap or two and see what's in them.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Wouldn't even think of lifting someone else's trap never know who can see you, my comments on pollution was a general attitude that Portuguese have to crayfish and the reason I was given why they don't make use of the resource


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I wouldn't usually life someone else's trap but can't think of any other way to find out if that's what they are....... I'd obviously never touch the contents though....... I guess the other thing I could do is just make a single crayfish trap of my own and give it a try to see what it catches.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Langoustine/crayfish are listed as a min size of 8 cm, they cannot be sold outside of the county their caught in, white footed crayfish no mention trapping fishing allowed from 1 June to 31 August only, the invasive vermelhoda-Louisiana, American crayfish all year round by any method traps specifically mentioned, but whether you need extra permissions to lay traps? why not contact the water bailiffs their the ones that enforce regulations


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Thanks..... will do.


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## Waterdog (Oct 24, 2011)

canoeman said:


> Don't believe Portuguese eat crayfish because of pollution, they'd far rather eat dubois eastern prawns more likely to be Lamprey traps?
> 
> *Foreign visitors* can keep their boats in Portugal for up to 6 months but they must register with Port Authority and Customs they might also be liable to a tax similar to Road Tax, unlike cars even a 1 day stopover at another countries Marina resets the 183 days, I believe though like cars the same does not apply if you are a Resident , latest information from various schools say rules and regulations are enforced even to the necessity of carrying passport


When a foreign flagged off-shore vessel books into a Portuguese (or Spanish) marina it & its crew's documents were inspected & the relevant authorities given the information they require.

If the vessel went direct into an anchorage (Alvor, Culatra etc.) there was no formal booking-in procedure but it might have been visited by an official vessel (this never seemed to happen but possibly things may have changed).

Once in, provided they paid circulation tax (if applicable) there was no time limit on a foreign flagged vessels stay in Portuguese Waters but they were subject to Portuguese Light dues & a point of continuing contention, Portuguese safety equipment regulations; hence, the recent guidelines.

Car road tax - we were never asked for any extra tax.

As there is no where else to lodge them, the crews off shore vessels will always carry their passport.

Sorry if this appears a bit pedantic but many would be visitors look to transit & possibly stop over for a while (possibly years) in Portuguese Waters & would hate them to be deterred by a misunderstanding of current regulations

As said before, the Lagos Navigators appear to have very comprehensive advice on this area.

As always would be useful if more up-to-date advice is available.

Hope you enjoy your time afloat in Portugal.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I've had (motor) boats on and off for the last 40 years or so and this will be the smallest I've had since about the 1970s but it'll serve my purposes here so I'm rather looking forward to it. 

I've just been back to look at the outboard and it's a 2 stroke Evinrude so no use to me...... I have however made him a lower offer for the boat & trailer etc without the motor and will then try to buy a 5 or 6 hp 4 stroke somewhere. 

I've looked at new ones here and they're going for something like E1500 so will now look to see if I can find a used one somewhere....... if not, I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and go for new if I have to.

I have however never even set foot on a sail boat of any kind!


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

http://www.olx.pt/barcos-lanchas-cat-376

KuantoKusta – Comparador de preços e guia de compras online


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

That olx link doesn't show any outboards..... am I missing something? 

I did look on olx this morning and found 2 Yamaha outboards and have asked if they're long or short shaft and 2 or 4 stroke but haven't had any answers yet.

The other link doesn't show me any outboards either so I'd guess I'm somehow missing else there?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Just posted links as a possibility, Portuguese not great a replying to e-mails prefer a phone call. the other is a comparision site so thought possibly might have outboards

What about Centro Náutico do Zêzere - Passeios de Jangada - Castelo de Bode, although i see boats around on the rivers and reservoirs rarely see chandlery type shops, might be a Honda, Yamaha dealer type of thing?


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

OK Thanks.

I've found a chandlers in Avelar and another in Fig Da Foz but neither have any used outboards and both have quoted me similar prices for new ones but I'll contact the site you mention as well. 

The other thing I might do is buy the boat and then before I buy the outboard, borrow one from my friend and fellow forum member tony C for a trial run to see how his (smaller) motor works on this boat........ if I have to buy new, smaller is a whole lot cheaper!


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

UK? some ebay sellers will ship


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I thought about as well but am not sure how the registration process would work with an engine from outside of Portugal....... I'm sure it's not impossible but am not sure it's worth the ******ation factor. LOL!


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Providing IVA been paid which wouldn't apply to 2nd hand should be just a matter of producing documents at Conservatoria, afraid no information on site for registering boats or engines, personal visit


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## Waterdog (Oct 24, 2011)

travelling-man said:


> I've had (motor) boats on and off for the last 40 years or so and this will be the smallest I've had since about the 1970s but it'll serve my purposes here so I'm rather looking forward to it.
> 
> I've just been back to look at the outboard and it's a 2 stroke Evinrude so no use to me...... I have however made him a lower offer for the boat & trailer etc without the motor and will then try to buy a 5 or 6 hp 4 stroke somewhere.
> 
> ...


Re Engine.

Searched on Google & got a new 4HP 4stroke Honda shipped to Portugal from UK for about £800 & this included insurance & post & packing.

There are other well known brands that come considerably cheaper.

Tracked it all the way across Europe & it arrived 4 working days after placing the order.

Excellent


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## Waterdog (Oct 24, 2011)

*Engine from Compass24?*



travelling-man said:


> I thought about as well but am not sure how the registration process would work with an engine from outside of Portugal....... I'm sure it's not impossible but am not sure it's worth the ******ation factor. LOL!


In my case the short shaft Honda was for the dinghy but as we were 7 foreign flagged vessel, there was no problem with registration. 

Could you re-register your prospective boat outside of Portugal? If you want a UK registration you have to have a UK address.

VAT was paid in the UK & customs presented no problems.

At present Compass 24 are cutting some good deals & believe they send items for main land Europe from their depot in Germany, which reduces costs & delivery time.

Just got a new life raft from them & am well impressed.

Hope this helps.

xx xx


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

It helps a lot.... thanks very much indeed.

I'll look them up right now.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I don't think it's worth the hassle of registering it in the UK but have now emailed Compass 24 & we'll see what they can offer me.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

You wouldn't as such register type of boat your buying in UK, you might have local registration but it certainly wouldn't be "flagged"


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

It's already PT registered so I'm not about to change it but I will look into buying the motor elsewhere etc.


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## Waterdog (Oct 24, 2011)

*Engines*



travelling-man said:


> It's already PT registered so I'm not about to change it but I will look into buying the motor elsewhere etc.


In your case not relevant, but in principle, flagging & national registration is the same thing. It all depends on who holds the register (List 1 = Lloyd's, other lists DVLC).

Your situation raises the interesting rather academic point, does an outboard have to have the same registration as the boat & if you have more than one outboard do they both (all) have to have the same registration? Point being boat taxation is a function of engine size (bigger=more) so could you register just one outboard engine & so minimise tax?

Not an issue for you but could be very significant for a big fishing rib etc.

Back to reality, would be interested where you get you engine?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Most of the internet information relates to coastal, seagoing and visiting boats, so all needs to be checked against local regulations for inland river and reservoir


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I think every petrol engine has to be registered but don't know if it's registered to the owner or the boat or both...... AFAIK, electric outboards don't need to be registered but am not 110% sure of that. 

I've now heard back from a couple of UK suppliers and their new price for a 5 hp four stroke is around UKP1200 plus a very reasonable shipping fee of about UKP50....... That does give me a saving but not really a significant saving and maybe not worth the hassle of registering it..... Used ones however are considerably cheaper and may well be worth considering...... the problem with a used one of course is that one never knows if it's been used in the salt and if it has, if it's been washed out properly afterwards..... but I will look into it.

What's really annoying is the boat actually has a 6 hp with it but it's a 2 stroke Evinrude and strokers are banned on the Zezere/Cabril. 

So now we're negotiating on a sale minus the Evinrude.

Canoeman is dead right about the need to check local regs and fortunately and largely due to this forum, I've been able to make some tip top contacts who know all the local rules. 

I do still get the impression that a lot of those rules are ignored by the Portuguese but of course we won't be able to get away with half of what they do. LOL! 

Which is why the seller has a 2 stroke outboard available!


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## Waterdog (Oct 24, 2011)

*Rules If Possible Get It In Writing*



canoeman said:


> Most of the internet information relates to coastal, seagoing and visiting boats, so all needs to be checked against local regulations for inland river and reservoir


Agree absolutely.

Moreover, if possible get it all in writing (Portugues & English?) & signed off so when the next official comes along you have some proof of the agreed situation.

From bitter experience, in these parts of the world (Portugal, Spain, Cyprus & latterly Malta), unlike the UK, Rules, Regulations & Reality often have little in common!

Do I feel a new Thread/discussion coming on?:boxing:


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I certainly agree that Rules, Regulations & Reality often have little in common here. 

The more I look at small craft on the Zezere the more I realise that the majority aren't registered and don't comply with the rules but I seriously doubt us incomers could get away with even half of what a local does....... but no-one ever told me life was fair! LOL!


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

If there not registered they wouldn't be able to own or sell, and even locals won't run that risk they just don't make it apparent, but yes where far easier targets


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## Waterdog (Oct 24, 2011)

canoeman said:


> If there not registered they wouldn't be able to own or sell, and even locals won't run that risk they just don't make it apparent, but yes where far easier targets


If the owner doesn't own an unregistered boat - who does & why couldn't the boat in question be sold?

Certainly during my time in Portugal there were a lot of bandit small boat owners, who were not registered, paid no taxes. They kept their boats in garages/barns & launched & recovered direct from beaches & not all were locals. Bit like the foreign plated/owned cars.

Not advocating you should break the law - always stupid & short termism in my view but certainly happened (Rules & Reality?).

Possibly times are changing.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Would you buy an unregistered boat or an unregistered car, if current laws say it must be? I wouldn't, the boat version of road tax is a new re-introduction, maybe when you where here it wasn't a requirement


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## Waterdog (Oct 24, 2011)

*A Boat Version Of Road Tax*



canoeman said:


> Would you buy an unregistered boat or an unregistered car, if current laws say it must be? I wouldn't, the boat version of road tax is a new re-introduction, maybe when you where here it wasn't a requirement


Does this new version of road tax extend to foreign flagged off shore vessels?

If so that should empty the marinas at a stroke!

How long has it been around?

Haven't seen anything about it in the boating press.


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## Waterdog (Oct 24, 2011)

*Fred Drift*



Waterdog said:


> Does this new version of road tax extend to foreign flagged off shore vessels?
> 
> If so that should empty the marinas at a stroke!
> 
> ...


Second thought. Possible into Fred Drift & this latest post would be more appropriate on a boatie forum.lane::focus:


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

It's reported in the sites you recommend and applies to any visitor who stays +183 days but as I posted earlier can be avoided


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