# M.Sc in EE degree - Assessment through ACS or through Engineers Australia ?!?



## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

Dear potential Australian immigrants and Australian visa holders,

I have an Master of Science in _Electrical Engineering_ degree from Stockholm, Sweden, with extensive coursework related to _Computer Science_ during my studies, and I also had my "Master Thesis" in computer science related to programming artificial robots playing soccer at Simon Fraser university in Canada. Last year I also finished 2 university courses learning more about _Databases_ related to my current job.

After I finished this degree I worked mainly as an Electrical Engineer/Sales Engineer for approximately 2 years. 

BUT...

Later I changed careers into IT:
First I worked as a Mobile Solutions IT-advisor for 1 year (related to the 263111 - Computer Network & Systems Engineer, but also 261111 - ICT Business Analyst and 261112 System Analyst ), 
and today I work as a Senior Business Intelligence IT-consultant (related to 261111 - ICT Business Analyst, but also 261112 System Analyst, 263111 Computer Network & Systems Engineer and 261111 Software Engineer).

What I need a better understanding of at this point is the following: 
My education can be both related to electrical engineering as well as related to computer science (more then 50% of all my coursework is related to computer science). 

I am a little confused at this time how to get my skills assessed and I really need your help with this.

QUESTION:
Should I focus on ACS skill assessment as a computer science engineer (M.Sc in EE) together with my last 3 years of IT-related work experience...
..*OR*.. 
should I get my skills assessed as an electrical engineer with Engineers Australia?
Maybe I can send to both assessment organizations (ACS and Engineers Australia) and see where I can get a positive skill assessment?

Please share your thoughts and opinion!
Big thanks to anyone that could help me with this one!!

/Dan


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

*Engineers Australia - 233311 Electrical Egineer*

Hello,

Question 1:
If I have finished a non-Australian 4,5 year undergraduate studies that leads to a Master of Science in Electrical Engineering (yes, without the Bachelor degree, European system), does anyone know under which accreditation system category I should apply?
I believe this is considered to be the Professional Engineer category but not sure about the accreditation (Sydney, Washington, etc..).

Question 2:
How many years of relevant work experience do I need to get my skills assessed for the 232211 Electrical Engineering (ANZSCO code) job description?
Or is it enough with the 4,5 year degree in Electrical Engineering?


Big thanks!


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

*Electrical Engineer assessed by Engineers Australia with IT-related work experience*

I am applying for a skilled independent (189) visa.
I have a Master degree in Electrical Engineering, but have lately worked mainly with IT-related jobs.

Question 1:
Can I get my skill assessment as an 261313 Electrical Engineer and get my IT-related work assessed for skilled employment or will I only get my skill assessment based on my degree in Electrical Engineering?

Question 2:
If I get my skilled independent (189) visa using the 261313 Electrical Engineering nomination, can I work with IT-related work or do I have to work with the nominated job position?


Thank you!


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi Warciosu, 

you can get assessed in multiple ANZSCO codes, even from the same assessing authority. Many people have a certain overlap between two or more codes due to career changes or natural progression within a company's hierarchy (e.g. people who start as software tester, move on to development and finally managements). Ideally, your nominated job code matches both your education and work experience . 

*ACS*
Note that ACS will "deduct" at least two years of your work experience post-graduation, more if your bachelor/master degree is assessed as a _minor_ in ICT only. Refer to the ACS Summary of Criteria and the ACS Skills Assessment Guidelines (esp. page 9) for details. 

*EA*
EA also provides a helpful EA Migration Skills Assessment Booklet. They will only consider work experience within the same unit group as the nominated occupation to be closely related. So they won't consider your experience in IT. 

Do the maths and see what gives you the better outcome. Unlike in the employer sponsored visa subgroups (457, 186) you don't need to work in your nominated occupation once you have the 189 (or 190) grant - it's only required to get the visa.


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi Warciosu, 

please don't start a new thread every time you come up with a question related to your skills assessment. Having all information in one place makes it much easier to answer your questions . 

It won't be a problem that you completed an "integrated" study program, that combines bachelor and master into one study program. In fact, a 4.5 year program may be advantageous because Australia has 4-year bachelor programs and the typical European (Bologna-style) bachelor is only three years. According to ACS/EA/DIBP you only need a bachelor degree to become "skilled", everything else is sugar on top. You won't get additional education points for a master degree either, the next education level is a PhD. 

If you go for EA assessment, make sure that you request "Points Test Advice" for your work experience as well. They usually only assess your education. 

Cheers, 
Monika


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

Dear Monika,

I wanted to be more visible in the forum (did not get any replies the first time I posted in the forum), before you where so kind enough and gave me those so important answers for a new applicant. I am very grateful for those, just so you know.

Ok, I understand that my education will be assessed and will give me 15 points, and counted as Professional Engineer at EA. BUT you are saying that ACS/EA/DIBP only need a bachelor degree to become "skilled", but in ACS's case you also need 2 year of relevant work experience connected to the education and nomination job class (not only the education), correct?

Right now I understand that there is no advantage going with ACS if I only have 2 years of relevant IT-work experience, I may as well go with EA where I do not need any work experience, is that correct?

If getting assessed as "skilled" with EA only requires my degree, then will there be any advantage sending papers for all my IT-related work? Also, do I need to send in papers for my "electrical engineering" work if the "certification of employment" does not fully correspond to the requirements set by EA? The duties are missing, there is only the "title" on paper.

I mean, if I get my 60 points, then I don't want to waste to much time on preparing so much other papers that unfortunately can take a lot of time. How important is it to get some extra points for work for the entire application processing time to get my skilled independent 189 visa?

Monika, do you know which accreditation method I should follow:
Do I have non-recognised Engineering qualifications 
..or..
Do I have accredited Engineering qualifications ?


Wish you all the best and thank you for your answers!

/Dan


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi Dan, 



> BUT you are saying that ACS/EA/DIBP only need a bachelor degree to become "skilled", but in ACS's case you also need 2 year of relevant work experience connected to the education and nomination job class (not only the education), correct?


Yes, I was only speaking from an education point of view. ICT/Engineering codes require an "ANZSCO Skill Level 1", which is a bachelor degree. Sufficient work experience can _substitute_ for a lack of formal qualification. However, every assessing authority can impose additional constraints/requirements. ACS requires you to have at least 2 years of work experience if you have an overseas bachelor degree. 



> Right now I understand that there is no advantage going with ACS if I only have 2 years of relevant IT-work experience, I may as well go with EA where I do not need any work experience, is that correct?


Yes, you are correct. One point you may wish to consider are the "dates of effect" for the different occupations. Most engineering/ICT occupation were put under _pro-rata_ arrangements (see SkillSelect Reports), which means they have their own wait queues for 189 EOIs, so you may need a higher points score than 60 points to have a chance to get an invite this year. 

*Example:* Last invitation round from 10 February 2014: 
In unit group 2611xx (ICT Business and Systems Analysts) you needed at least *70 points* to get an invite. In unit group 2613xx (Software and Applications Programmers) and 2334xx (Electronics Engineers) you needed at least *65 point*s. Now, the interesting thing is that 2631xx (Computer and Networks Professionals) is not under pro-rata arrangements, so they are in the general queue, where you can get an invite within a month with 60 points. Awesome, right? It may be worth studying the assessment requirements in detail and "tweaking" your application for the correct ANZSCO code for that reason. Many people have some overlap between two or more codes, so pick the one that is most advantageous for you.


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## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

Warciosu said:


> Also, do I need to send in papers for my "electrical engineering" work if the "certification of employment" does not fully correspond to the requirements set by EA? The duties are missing, there is only the "title" on paper.


In my case, my service letter only mentioned that I worked as an Engineer. No job description was available. This was not a problem for me to get a possitive skills assessment from EA.

However, I think assessments are done on a case by case basis. Good luck.


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## VincentDo (Nov 12, 2013)

Warciosu said:


> Dear Monika, I wanted to be more visible in the forum (did not get any replies the first time I posted in the forum), before you where so kind enough and gave me those so important answers for a new applicant. I am very grateful for those, just so you know. Ok, I understand that my education will be assessed and will give me 15 points, and counted as Professional Engineer at EA. BUT you are saying that ACS/EA/DIBP only need a bachelor degree to become "skilled", but in ACS's case you also need 2 year of relevant work experience connected to the education and nomination job class (not only the education), correct? Right now I understand that there is no advantage going with ACS if I only have 2 years of relevant IT-work experience, I may as well go with EA where I do not need any work experience, is that correct? If getting assessed as "skilled" with EA only requires my degree, then will there be any advantage sending papers for all my IT-related work? Also, do I need to send in papers for my "electrical engineering" work if the "certification of employment" does not fully correspond to the requirements set by EA? The duties are missing, there is only the "title" on paper. I mean, if I get my 60 points, then I don't want to waste to much time on preparing so much other papers that unfortunately can take a lot of time. How important is it to get some extra points for work for the entire application processing time to get my skilled independent 189 visa? Monika, do you know which accreditation method I should follow: Do I have non-recognised Engineering qualifications ..or.. Do I have accredited Engineering qualifications ? Wish you all the best and thank you for your answers! /Dan


I think going for electrical eng is the best choice( in both SOL&CSOL, so good for both 189,190s with 60 points, no work exp deduction, high ceiling...)
I think you need a CDR with 3 career episodes as your degree is non- recognised


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

Hi Monika,



espresso said:


> Yes, you are correct. One point you may wish to consider are the "dates of effect" for the different occupations. Most engineering/ICT occupation were put under _pro-rata_ arrangements (see SkillSelect Reports), which means they have their own wait queues for 189 EOIs, so you may need a higher points score than 60 points to have a chance to get an invite this year.
> 
> *Example:* Last invitation round from 10 February 2014:
> In unit group 2611xx (ICT Business and Systems Analysts) you needed at least *70 points* to get an invite. In unit group 2613xx (Software and Applications Programmers) and 2334xx (Electronics Engineers) you needed at least *65 point*s. Now, the interesting thing is that 2631xx (Computer and Networks Professionals) is not under pro-rata arrangements, so they are in the general queue, where you can get an invite within a month with 60 points. Awesome, right? It may be worth studying the assessment requirements in detail and "tweaking" your application for the correct ANZSCO code for that reason. Many people have some overlap between two or more codes, so pick the one that is most advantageous for you.


In my case I think I would be nominated under the 233311 Electrical Engineer ANZSCO code and not as 2334xx Electronics Engineer. 
But I understand your point with the prioritization of job codes, very good point, I will consider that.

I just need to understand the accreditation now if I choose to go with EA.


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

AncientGlory said:


> In my case, my service letter only mentioned that I worked as an Engineer. No job description was available. This was not a problem for me to get a possitive skills assessment from EA.
> 
> However, I think assessments are done on a case by case basis. Good luck.


Hi AncientGlory,

That is interesting, I think I will send in my "employment certificates" as they are and see what happens. Only thing missing is the duties description, otherwise they company, and job title tells you need to be an Electrical Engineer to even be able to work there. Will be interesting to see how they assess it. Also I see that there are 2 different fees at EA, one for "standard accord assessment" and one for "relevant skilled employment". 

I see you have an impressive application process by looking at your signature:
263312 - 189 (75 points) | IELTS (9,9,8,8) | EA +Ve - 20/12/2013 | EOI lodged - 07/01/2014 | Invitation - 13/01/2014 | VISA lodged - 22/01/2014 | CO - 17/02/2014 | Grant 25/02/2014 |

May I ask if your 233312 job code was also put under pro-rata arrangement as the 2334xx Electronics Engineer? Do you know the difference between these two categories?
What does EA +Ve mean?


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## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

Warciosu said:


> May I ask if your 233312 job code was also put under pro-rata arrangement as the 2334xx Electronics Engineer?


My job code was actually 2633 (Telecommunications Engineering Professionals). And yes, it was under pro-rata arrangement. 



Warciosu said:


> Do you know the difference between these two categories?


Basically, 2633 is for Telecommunications Engineers while 2334 is for Electronics Egineers. If you refer to the job description, you will see what the differences are. Note that these two occupations do overlap a bit. Telecommunications Engineer job was added to the SOL couple of years ago and before that most Telecommunications Engineers used to get assessed as Electronics Engineers.



Warciosu said:


> What does EA +Ve mean?


Means that I got a possitve skills assessment from Engineers Australia on this date.


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

Dear Monika(espresso), VincentDo and AncientGlory



VincentDo said:


> I think going for electrical eng is the best choice( in both SOL&CSOL, so good for both 189,190s with 60 points, no work exp deduction, high ceiling...)
> I think you need a CDR with 3 career episodes as your degree is non- recognised


Vincent:
Yes, I start to see that as well, that going with EA and 233311 Electrical Engineer is the best thing to do. But even if I have a M.Sc in Electrical Engineering I have not worked as a 233311 Electrical Engineer. Can I still get this skilled assessment?!?
Please look lower for my questions (question number 1) since I am still not clear what to do.



AncientGlory said:


> My job code was actually 2633 (Telecommunications Engineering Professionals). And yes, it was under pro-rata arrangement.
> 
> Basically, 2633 is for Telecommunications Engineers while 2334 is for Electronics Egineers. If you refer to the job description, you will see what the differences are. Note that these two occupations do overlap a bit. Telecommunications Engineer job was added to the SOL couple of years ago and before that most Telecommunications Engineers used to get assessed as Electronics Engineers.
> 
> Means that I got a possitve skills assessment from Engineers Australia on this date.


AncientGlory:
I believe that after looking at job descriptions for 233311 Electrical and 233411 Electronics, my work experience and skills match the 233411 Electronics Engineer category more. But I am not sure I have enough of relevant work experience, since I worked mostly as a Sales Engineer (shortly after university), but with a company where you need to be a qualified Electrical Engineer to even understand the products and be able to work there.




espresso said:


> Hi Dan,
> 
> Yes, you are correct. One point you may wish to consider are the "dates of effect" for the different occupations. Most engineering/ICT occupation were put under _pro-rata_ arrangements (see SkillSelect Reports), which means they have their own wait queues for 189 EOIs, so you may need a higher points score than 60 points to have a chance to get an invite this year.
> 
> ...


Monika,

I am still not sure what this means:
"Invitation process and cut offs
For clients who have equal points scores, the time at which they reached their points score for that subclass (referred to as the visa date of effect) determines their order of invitation. Expressions Of Interest with earlier dates of effect are invited before later dates."

Does this mean that if the cut-of date is 13/1/2014 2.27 pm for 2334 Electronics Engineers, then all applicants that had 2334 as their selected nomination and filed after 13/01/2014 with a score of 65 where *NOT* selected?




My skill assessment dilemma:
I see that my M.Sc in EE could be related to both 233311 Electrical Engineer, which is not under pro-rate agreement, where I need only 60p, and 233411 Electronics Engineer that is under pro-rata agreement where I need 65p. My relevant work experience could be related to 233411 Electronics Engineer job description. So now I would need 65p in order to get my skills assessed as a 233411 Electronics Engineer and have a chance to get an invitation.
But I am not sure they will count my Sales Engineer positions (in a highly electrical engineering dominated company) towards that 233411 Electronics Engineer job code.

Option 1:
If I go with EA and 233411 Electronics Engineer, I need my education plus at least 1 year of relevant work experience, which I am not sure about, to be able to have 65p to get an invitation.

Option 2:
If I go with EA an 233311 Electrical Engineer, I can only provide my education without any relevant work experience. And even that I am not sure that my M.Sc in EE courses cover all the necessary Electrical Engineer job description. Here I could get 60p, but I am not 100% sure.

Option 3:
If I go with ACS and 2611xx Business or Systems Analyst I need 70p (pro-rata requirements) but where I only have 1,5 year of work experience, so not sure I would even get 60p or get a positive assessment. I would need at least 6 months more work experience in order to get 60p and a positive assessment.

Option 4:
If I go with ACS and 263111 Computer Network & Systems Engineer I would have only 1 year of relevant work experience, and not sure my other IT-related (from option 3) work experience would count towards the 2631xx job code. I need 1 more year of work experience which I don't have, unless all my IT-related work experience can be accounted under one and the same job code.



Almost seems I am ending up in a dead-end, however I think. What do you guys think?



My general questions:
Question 1:
If I have a M.Sc in Electrical Engineering degree (finished 2005) but no relevant work experience working as a 233311 Electrical Engineer. Can I still get my degree and and skills assessed and get a visa with only 60p based on my education only without the work experience in the 233311 Electrical Engineer job code nomination?

Question 2: 
I also think I need to do my CDR with 3 career episodes, since my swedish electrical engineering degree is not accredited. Vincent, did you have to do a CDR? 

Question 3:
The EA migration skill process require you to attach a CDP (Continuing Professional Development) together with the CDR and I have only practiced Electrical Engineering at home and not at my work.
Since I have been working with IT-related things the last 3 years, how would this get my 233311 Electrical Engineering or 233411 Electronics Engineer approved?

Question 4:
Is this where I find all the pro-rata arrangement job codes after selecting *REPORTS ->Occupation Ceilings*:
SkillSelect – SkillSelect ?

Question 5:
Do I need to have my IELTS score already taken *BEFORE *I send in my application for assessment with EA?

Question 6:
Does anyone that have gotten a positive EA assessment have an example of their CDR that I can take a brief look at so I make no mistakes? You can delete things you dont want me to see, just want an layout and descriptive example of a version that was accepted.


Thank you for the support guys, I spent my entire weekend researching this!!

/Dan


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi Dan, 



> Does this mean that if the cut-of date is 13/1/2014 2.27 pm for 2334 Electronics Engineers, then all applicants that had 2334 as their selected nomination and filed after 13/01/2014 with a score of 65 where NOT selected?


Correct, although they may receive an invite in subsequent rounds. Think of it as a queue for each point score. If somebody submits an EOI with a higher score (e.g. 65) they immediately jump ahead in the queue (e.g. in front of everyone with 60 points), everybody else has to line up behind people in their points group who submitted earlier. If you look at the reports, some of the 60-points queues are moving very slowly or not all all. Best to be aware of these things...

*Options*
Option 3 and 4 are out - with less than two yours of work experience you just don't qualify for positive ACS assessment. 
Option 1: Do you have work experience in Australia? Otherwise I don't see how you can get any points for 1 year of work experience. For overseas experience you need at least 3 years to get points. I still think this is the most viable option. You may have to aim for a higher IELTS score to get the required 65 points. 
Option 2: Check your curriculum.

*Questions*
I got assessed by ACS, so somebody with first-hand EA assessment experience can probably provide more insight. However, a few notes: 
Question 1: You don't need any work experience for positive EA assessment. Student projects can be used as career episodes. 
Question 4: Correct. At the top of the page you find links to detailed reports for every invitation round. I'd suggest to get a better understanding of the queues and how fast (or rather: slow) they are moving along. 
Question 5: According to the EA FAQs you must submit an IELTS result to EA (minimum 6 in all bands). Please note: _"Applicants must arrange for the IELTS result to be sent directly to Engineers Australia from the test centre."_


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## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

Monica already answered most of your questions. Here are my two cents.



Warciosu said:


> My skill assessment dilemma:
> I see that my M.Sc in EE could be related to both 233311 Electrical Engineer, which is not under pro-rate agreement, where I need only 60p, and 233411 Electronics Engineer that is under pro-rata agreement where I need 65p. My relevant work experience could be related to 233411 Electronics Engineer job description. So now I would need 65p in order to get my skills assessed as a 233411 Electronics Engineer and have a chance to get an invitation.
> But I am not sure they will count my Sales Engineer positions (in a highly electrical engineering dominated company) towards that 233411 Electronics Engineer job code.


I'm quite sure that if you are using your Electrical Engineering knowledge in your Sales Engineering job then you can get a positive assessment as an Electrical Engineer. At this point, the fact that your degree is more relevant to Electronics Engineer is not relevant. I know couple of similar cases.

My opinion is that most viable option for you is Electrical Engineer.



Warciosu said:


> Option 2:
> If I go with EA an 233311 Electrical Engineer, I can only provide my education without any relevant work experience. And even that I am not sure that my M.Sc in EE courses cover all the necessary Electrical Engineer job description. Here I could get 60p, but I am not 100% sure.


Why do you say without any work experience? Didn't your sales engineering job require Electrical Engineering knowledge?



Warciosu said:


> Option 3:
> If I go with ACS and 2611xx Business or Systems Analyst I need 70p (pro-rata requirements) but where I only have 1,5 year of work experience, so not sure I would even get 60p or get a positive assessment. I would need at least 6 months more work experience in order to get 60p and a positive assessment.
> 
> Option 4:
> ...


You need at least 2 years of relevant work experience to get a possitive assessment from ACS. That is if you have an bachelors with an ICT Major. In your case it could be at least 4 years. I don't think ACS is a feasible path for you. Just my opinion.



Warciosu said:


> My general questions:
> Question 1:
> If I have a M.Sc in Electrical Engineering degree (finished 2005) but no relevant work experience working as a 233311 Electrical Engineer. Can I still get my degree and and skills assessed and get a visa with only 60p based on my education only without the work experience in the 233311 Electrical Engineer job code nomination?


I think you should be able to. However, there is a part called Continuing Professional Development where you need show EA how you continued in the carrier path. But the bottom line is if you have a degree in EE, how can anyone say that you are not an Electrical Engineer? I think this is a worthy path to explore.



Warciosu said:


> Question 2:
> I also think I need to do my CDR with 3 career episodes, since my swedish electrical engineering degree is not accredited. Vincent, did you have to do a CDR?


You need to write 3 CDRs.



Warciosu said:


> Question 3:
> The EA migration skill process require you to attach a CDP (Continuing Professional Development) together with the CDR and I have only practiced Electrical Engineering at home and not at my work.
> Since I have been working with IT-related things the last 3 years, how would this get my 233311 Electrical Engineering or 233411 Electronics Engineer approved?


This is hard to say since I haven't seen any such cases. However, My opinion is that you should be able to get a possitive assessment.



Warciosu said:


> Question 6:
> Does anyone that have gotten a positive EA assessment have an example of their CDR that I can take a brief look at so I make no mistakes? You can delete things you dont want me to see, just want an layout and descriptive example of a version that was accepted.


I can give you one of my Career Episodes if it helps. The other two contain sensitive unpublished research work, that I cannot just send out randomly.


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

Monika,

Great answers!! Very grateful! Let us meet up and celebrate when I get my visa. I will invite all of you that gave me advice on this very important topic.



espresso said:


> Hi Dan,
> 
> If you look at the reports, some of the 60-points queues are moving very slowly or not all all. Best to be aware of these things...


Where do you see the cut-off dates for the 60-point queues? I can only see the cut-of dates for the 6 pro-rata job codes that need more then 60 points.



espresso said:


> *Options*
> Option 1: Do you have work experience in Australia? Otherwise I don't see how you can get any points for 1 year of work experience. For overseas experience you need at least 3 years to get points. I still think this is the most viable option. You may have to aim for a higher IELTS score to get the required 65 points.





No, I do not have any work experience from Australia, but thats what I want, and that is why I am trying to get this visa. 

BUT... I also had an Electrical Engineering company where I where selling electrical measurement equipment on the swedish market. Can I use this work experience somehow?
All my Electrical Engineering work fall under the 233411 Electronics Engineer category.

And I am already aiming for 20p in my english IETL score 

My points in short: 
Age: 25p, 
English 20p (I hope), 
Education: 15p (even if I have another Master degree, MBA in general economics, not sure I can get additional points for 2 master degrees), 
Skilled employment, maybe 5p if they accept my previous work as a 233431 Electronics Engineer. That is 60p, or 65 with the skilled employment. 

Unless I get a state sponsorship, then I get additional 5points. Not sure how this visa work when it comes to the cut-off dates and points.



espresso said:


> [*]Question 5: According to the EA FAQs you must submit an IELTS result to EA (minimum 6 in all bands). Please note: _"Applicants must arrange for the IELTS result to be sent directly to Engineers Australia from the test centre."_



Yes, this I understand, but do I have to do my IELTS *BEFORE* I send in my application to EA?
Some things in the immigration process works in a systematic order, maybe its not so important in this case and I can send in my application and do my IELTS at earliest convenient time. I guess they will start processing it, once they receive the results.


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

Big thanks AncientGlory for your input!!



AncientGlory said:


> I'm quite sure that if you are using your Electrical Engineering knowledge in your Sales Engineering job then you can get a positive assessment as an Electrical Engineer. At this point, the fact that your degree is more relevant to Electronics Engineer is not relevant. I know couple of similar cases.
> 
> My opinion is that most viable option for you is Electrical Engineer.


I am a little confused about this. The education is one assessment and then my work experience, correct? 
And perhaps I should first send the application for education assessment and then send it it for my work assessment. Maybe this is even better since I want to get assessed as a Electrical Engineer and not as a Electronics Engineer in my degree assessment.
My work is mostly related to Electronics Engineering (233411) and not Electrical Engineering (233311).
I am worried that they could see my education same way and assess it as Electronics Engineer and not Electrical Engineer. What defines if I will be assessed purely with my degree as a 233411 Electronics Engineer or 233311 Electrical Engineer?




AncientGlory said:


> Why do you say without any work experience? Didn't your sales engineering job require Electrical Engineering knowledge?


About option 2: My sales engineering experience required Electronics Engineer knowledge, i.e. if I am following the job code descriptions by ANZSCO. So even if I carry a M.Sc in EE degree, my education and work experience is more related to the job category 233411 Electronics Engineer and not 233311 Electrical Engineer.



AncientGlory said:


> I think you should be able to. However, there is a part called Continuing Professional Development where you need show EA how you continued in the carrier path. But the bottom line is if you have a degree in EE, how can anyone say that you are not an Electrical Engineer? I think this is a worthy path to explore.


Yes, I will go for EA education assessment. I am very glad that I know which way to go now thanks to you guys. The path is more clearer now, despite that I am still researching everything and not sure how my education will be assessed.
Will it be assessed as 233311 Electrical Engineering or 233411 Electronics Engineer.
What governs how they will assess my education, do you know that?
When it comes to my work I think they will assess it under the code 233411 Electronics Engineer.



AncientGlory said:


> You need to write 3 CDRs.
> I can give you one of my Career Episodes if it helps. The other two contain sensitive unpublished research work, that I cannot just send out randomly.


I would really appreciate if you could send me one of your career episodes


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## VincentDo (Nov 12, 2013)

Warciosu said:


> Monika,
> 
> Great answers!! Very grateful! Let us meet up and celebrate when I get my visa. I will invite all of you that gave me advice on this very important topic.
> 
> ...


Pls see answers highlighted


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## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

Warciosu said:


> Big thanks AncientGlory for your input!!
> I am a little confused about this. The education is one assessment and then my work experience, correct?


Yes and No. EA says that they basically assess your skills against your bachelors degree. However, I think that if you have already worked in the industry, that comes under CPD and they consider that also while giving an assessment. Take the following two cases as examples.

(1) My bachelors degree is in Computer Engineering and it is my understanding that the subjects covered in this degree is not sufficient to get an assessment as a Telecommunications Egnineer. However, after I finished my degree, I worked 10 months as a Telecommunications Engineer and then completed a PhD in Telecommunications Engineering. I firmly believe my CPD was considered when giving me the assessment.

(2) My mate finished his bachelors in Australia in "Electrical and Electronics Engineering". Immediately after that he requested for an assessment as an Electrical Engineer and EA refused this saying he doesn't have enough Electrical subjects. They gave him Electronics Engineer. He worked 10 months as an Electrical Engineer and asked for another assessment and this time, he was given an assessment as an Electrical Engineer.

You should note that to claim points for your work experience you don't need to get it assessed by EA. EA only gives a recommendation regarding your work experience. DIBP decides whether you can claim points for the work experience or not.



Warciosu said:


> Will it be assessed as 233311 Electrical Engineering or 233411 Electronics Engineer.
> What governs how they will assess my education, do you know that?
> When it comes to my work I think they will assess it under the code 233411 Electronics Engineer.


You should nominate the occupation that you want to be assessed against. EA says that they only assess you against the occupation that you nominate. However, when overlapping occupations are concerened I have seen them recommending occupations. In my case for example, I nominated Telecommunications Engineer, but they suggested Telecommunications Network Engineer. Later I went through the job description and realised Telecommunications Network Engineer is more suitable for me.



Warciosu said:


> I would really appreciate if you could send me one of your career episodes


Done .


----------



## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

Thanks Vincent!


VincentDo said:


> Pls see answers highlighted





VincentDo said:


> -> if you have no AU work experience, then you need at least 3 year overseas work exp to claim points. If you have less than 3 yrs in electrical eng(or the related), then forget about claiming points. (I had 2.5 yrs overseas work exp at the time of application, I did not claim pts or get it assessed coz it helps to simplify the process)


I have Electronics Engineer related experience in 3 episodes:
First job from 5th dec 2005 - 31st dec 2016 = 13 months
Second job same company, jan 8th - june 27th = 6 months
Third job, 1st nov - 16th march = 5 months, but I am not sure they will count this as 5 months?
That would be totally 24 months in the best case, 2 years.
Then I had my company for 2 years.

All of these jobs could be related to Electronics Engineer, not Electrical Engineering.



VincentDo said:


> -> If the work is related or even closely related to Electrical eng, it counts. It's demonstrated thru CDR with 3 career episodes. It does not depend much on your job title, but on what you have done and skills you have had. (you do not have to match all of the duties specified by the job description of electrical eng, just a few of them are sufficient )


This is a perfect idea for one of my CDR project descriptions. But I will show you what EA replied to me regarding my degree lower down.



VincentDo said:


> ->Each state has their own requirements, I hope you know what the differences between 189s and 190s.


I believe that if the state has a nominated job that I have the assessment for, then I can get extra 5 points for the state nomination and get a state nominated worker visa 190, where I have to work 2 years in that very same state. Correct?

BUT...

Unfortunately I am not sure I can get assessed as an Electrical Engineer, this is the reply I got from EA:

From the information you have provided, it seem that your degree
has very little content in Electrical Engineering, but is rather focused
on Electronics Engineering. Please note that in a lot of country, there
is no difference in title for both Electrical and Electronics
Engineering. For a degree to be suitable for an assessment as an
Electrical Engineer, we would require to see content in High Voltage
Engineering, power transmission, power generation, Electrical Machine,
relays and switches, etc, which are not present in your degree. It is
highly unlikely that you would obtain an assessment outcome as an
Electrical Engineer, no matter how much work experience you have. You
are more likely to be assessed as an Electronics Engineer.

Please refer to the ANZSCO dictionary definition. The ANZSCO
dictionary is downloadable from Australian Bureau of Statistics. Whilst we would expect
an Electrical Engineer to deal with High Voltage, power generation,
power distribution and power protection, an Electronics Engineer would
be handling lower voltage, deal with Electronics component, and or
network. Electronics Engineer sometimes specialise in networks or
telecommunications engineering. From the information you provided, it
seems that the occupation 233411 Electronics Engineer is more
appropriate.


----------



## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

Very good examples AncientGlory!



AncientGlory said:


> (1) My bachelors degree is in Computer Engineering and it is my understanding that the subjects covered in this degree is not sufficient to get an assessment as a Telecommunications Egnineer. However, after I finished my degree, I worked 10 months as a Telecommunications Engineer and then completed a PhD in Telecommunications Engineering. I firmly believe my CPD was considered when giving me the assessment.


I think they probably looked at your PhD in Telecommunications since it was your highest degree.



AncientGlory said:


> (2) My mate finished his bachelors in Australia in "Electrical and Electronics Engineering". Immediately after that he requested for an assessment as an Electrical Engineer and EA refused this saying he doesn't have enough Electrical subjects. They gave him Electronics Engineer. He worked 10 months as an Electrical Engineer and asked for another assessment and this time, he was given an assessment as an Electrical Engineer.


That is interesting. So his education was assessed as a skilled Electronics Engineer and then he got 5 points for work experience or they suddenly just changed his assessment?



AncientGlory said:


> You should nominate the occupation that you want to be assessed against. EA says that they only assess you against the occupation that you nominate. However, when overlapping occupations are concerened I have seen them recommending occupations. In my case for example, I nominated Telecommunications Engineer, but they suggested Telecommunications Network Engineer. Later I went through the job description and realised Telecommunications Network Engineer is more suitable for me.


Yes, but I am not sure I can do it in my case, look in my previous post what the just replied to me. It looks highly unlikely that they would assess me as an Electrical Engineer.
Not sure how to move on with my application process right now.

Do I choose which ANZSCO nomination category I want my education to be nominated or is it something EA will decide after the process my degree together with my CDRs?

Maybe I need to go for Electronics Engineer. Get my degree assessed and hopefully try to get my work experience assessed as 3 years all together in order to get those extra 5 points?!? But this would be a real hassle since my "certification of employment" for these 3 jobs I mentioned above only includes the titles, and no duties. Titles are: Sales Engineer, Applications Engineer and Sales Engineer again. All related to Electronics Engineer technology.




AncientGlory said:


> Done .


Big thanks, that was a very extensive CDR, impressed


----------



## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

Warciosu said:


> I think they probably looked at your PhD in Telecommunications since it was your highest degree.


Well EA clearly mentions that they only assess your bachelors degree, not post graduate degrees. I thin PhD comes under CPD. 



Warciosu said:


> That is interesting. So his education was assessed as a skilled Electronics Engineer and then he got 5 points for work experience or they suddenly just changed his assessment?


Skills assessment is given for your educations with the consideration of CPD. He was first assessed as an Electronics Engineer, then later as an Electrical Engineer upon his request. I'm only talking about skills assessment. Like I mentioned before, work experience assessment is something else, and no one I know has ever done that so I can't comment on that. Work experience assessment is not mandotory to claim points for work experience.



Warciosu said:


> Yes, but I am not sure I can do it in my case, look in my previous post what the just replied to me. It looks highly unlikely that they would assess me as an Electrical Engineer.
> Not sure how to move on with my application process right now.
> 
> Do I choose which ANZSCO nomination category I want my education to be nominated or is it something EA will decide after the process my degree together with my CDRs?


I never knew EA gives out recommendations like this. That's nice of them. Normally, you need to nominate the occupation.



Warciosu said:


> Maybe I need to go for Electronics Engineer. Get my degree assessed and hopefully try to get my work experience assessed as 3 years all together in order to get those extra 5 points?!? But this would be a real hassle since my "certification of employment" for these 3 jobs I mentioned above only includes the titles, and no duties. Titles are: Sales Engineer, Applications Engineer and Sales Engineer again. All related to Electronics Engineer technology.


Yes, this sounds like a safe and smart plan. May I also suggest that you try and get 8 for IELTS? Your English seems good enough for this. If you get 8 for IELTS that gives you 20 points.



Warciosu said:


> Big thanks, that was a very extensive CDR, impressed


You are quite welcome mate and thanks.


----------



## VincentDo (Nov 12, 2013)

Warciosu said:


> I have Electronics Engineer related experience in 3 episodes:
> First job from 5th dec 2005 - 31st dec 2016 = 13 months
> Second job same company, jan 8th - june 27th = 6 months
> Third job, 1st nov - 16th march = 5 months, but I am not sure they will count this as 5 months?
> ...


Wow, You get no additional points for visa with 2 yrs work exp, it however can support in writing your CDR for electronics Eng assessment application




Warciosu said:


> I believe that if the state has a nominated job that I have the assessment for, then I can get extra 5 points for the state nomination and get a state nominated worker visa 190, where I have to work 2 years in that very same state. Correct?


Correct! but I believe with Electronic Eng, you have very limited choice for 190s, check website from each state to find details.




Warciosu said:


> BUT...
> 
> Unfortunately I am not sure I can get assessed as an Electrical Engineer, this is the reply I got from EA:
> 
> ...


The letter from EA has made it clear to you that you are suggested to go for Electronics Eng. If you try to nominate Electrical Eng, EA will not reject your application immediately, but later suggest you choose Electronics Eng and ask you to re-write 3 episodes for Electronics Eng (you are just wasting time here). 

The key point is that your academic transcript does not show you have enough electrical components and your work exp is highly unrelated to Electrical Eng, thus it is now strongly recommended you go for Electronics Eng


----------



## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

AncientGlory said:


> Skills assessment is given for your educations with the consideration of CPD. He was first assessed as an Electronics Engineer, then later as an Electrical Engineer upon his request. I'm only talking about skills assessment. Like I mentioned before, work experience assessment is something else, and no one I know has ever done that so I can't comment on that. Work experience assessment is not mandotory to claim points for work experience.


Yes I understand. So work experience will basically be assessed later by the immigrations office once they receive my application I guess?
But my "certificates of employment" cover only 2 years. I have also been running an eletronics engineering company for 2 years, so I hope they will at least account 1 year of work experience for that as well. Then I could get my 5 points for work experience.

Btw, do you know how they count the months? 
How many years would this accounr for:
First job from 5th dec 2005 - 31st dec 2016 = 13 months
Second job same company, jan 8th - june 27th = 6 months
Third job, 1st nov - 16th march = 5 months, but I am not sure they will count this as 5 months?



AncientGlory said:


> I never knew EA gives out recommendations like this. That's nice of them. Normally, you need to nominate the occupation.


Yes, I wrote them an extensive email, so I got a good reply. But this means I should be aiming for the Electronics Engineer, instead of trying to apply for Electrical Engineering. 



AncientGlory said:


> Yes, this sounds like a safe and smart plan. May I also suggest that you try and get 8 for IELTS? Your English seems good enough for this. If you get 8 for IELTS that gives you 20 points.


I already account for 20 points here  Have my test next week. Preparing now.


You are quite welcome mate and thanks.[/QUOTE]
Big thanks! Appreciate you guys can mentor me on this rather extensive application process.


----------



## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

VincentDo said:


> Wow, You get no additional points for visa with 2 yrs work exp..


Vincent, but does this really account for 24 months of work experience?
I have also been running my own company related to Electronics Engineering for 2 years, so I really hope they would account this for an additional 1 year. That way I have a chance getting 5 extra points for the work experience, IF they account my employee experience to 24 months. What do you think?



VincentDo said:


> , it however can support in writing your CDR for electronics Eng assessment application


Really? Can I use my work experience in Electronics engineering for my CDR?
What if I later also want to claim points for work experience?




VincentDo said:


> Correct! but I believe with Electronic Eng, you have very limited choice for 190s, check website from each state to find details.


Yes you are right, they have maybe enough Electronics Eng for now. Checked the states I was interested in, didnt find.




VincentDo said:


> The letter from EA has made it clear to you that you are suggested to go for Electronics Eng. If you try to nominate Electrical Eng, EA will not reject your application immediately, but later suggest you choose Electronics Eng and ask you to re-write 3 episodes for Electronics Eng (you are just wasting time here).
> 
> The key point is that your academic transcript does not show you have enough electrical components and your work exp is highly unrelated to Electrical Eng, thus it is now strongly recommended you go for Electronics Eng


Yes, after all research and thank to you guys here in this forum, this is my only and best chance. Getting my skils assessed as an Electronics Engineer, and together with top english score I will get 60points. If I manage to get my work experienced for 3 years of related work experience in Electrincs Eng, then I am up in 65p. And then I have a big chance getting invited for visa.

I dont see any other ways at this moment.


----------



## VincentDo (Nov 12, 2013)

Warciosu said:


> Vincent, but does this really account for 24 months of work experience?
> I have also been running my own company related to Electronics Engineering for 2 years, so I really hope they would account this for an additional 1 year. That way I have a chance getting 5 extra points for the work experience, IF they account my employee experience to 24 months. What do you think?


Seem that you have not gone through details on their booklet which is crucial for you to write up CDRs and prepare your skill assessment application. Indeed, everything is in there. 
In fact, skilled employment includes self-employment. You can be an employer. However, bear in mind that they are going to assess your SKILLs, so it is the individual duties performed that matter, Not your position/title. Therefore, of course every employment (post-qualification) counts.




Warciosu said:


> Really? Can I use my work experience in Electronics engineering for my CDR?
> What if I later also want to claim points for work experience?


Whether you are claiming your work experiences or not, CDR with 3 career episodes is a must. And as expected from EA, 3 career episodes are not only based on your qualification, but your whole career. 
Unlike fresh graduates who have no work experience to show and thus have to write their CDRs solely based on their projects at school, you are suggested to choose 1 project from school and 2 projects from your work (even more convincing if three projects are from work). From this point of view, everything is to prove you are skilled with respect to the nominated occupation.
Now, EA has been authorised by DIBP to give an opinion on your skilled employment (without this, it is far too hard to claim points from work exp). 
Finally, in term of skilled employment, of course it is demonstrated thru CDR. Try to make use of 3 career episodes to prove what you did was closely related to the nominated occupation. 
In short, there are only 3 career episodes required for both standard skill assessment and skilled employment



Warciosu said:


> Yes you are right, they have maybe enough Electronics Eng for now. Checked the states I was interested in, didnt find.


stick to 189 then



Warciosu said:


> Yes, after all research and thank to you guys here in this forum, this is my only and best chance. Getting my skils assessed as an Electronics Engineer, and together with top english score I will get 60points. If I manage to get my work experienced for 3 years of related work experience in Electrincs Eng, then I am up in 65p. And then I have a big chance getting invited for visa.
> 
> I dont see any other ways at this moment.


G'luck to your application


----------



## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

VincentDo said:


> Seem that you have not gone through details on their booklet which is crucial for you to write up CDRs and prepare your skill assessment application. Indeed, everything is in there.
> In fact, skilled employment includes self-employment. You can be an employer. However, bear in mind that they are going to assess your SKILLs, so it is the individual duties performed that matter, Not your position/title. Therefore, of course every employment (post-qualification) counts.


Vincent, I have. I just want to listen you guys out and clarify what is best to do. 
Do you have an example of a CDR that you have written, that you are willing to share with me?




VincentDo said:


> Whether you are claiming your work experiences or not, CDR with 3 career episodes is a must.
> 
> Unlike fresh graduates who have no work experience to show and thus have to write their CDRs solely based on their projects at school, you are suggested to choose 1 project from school and 2 projects from your work (even more convincing if three projects are from work).


Ok, then I will include episodes from my work experience and studies.
I am just worried about the CDP, where I dont have to much to show that I did in order to keep myself updated with my knowledge. Especially last 3 years where I am working with IT, also finished an MBA degree, etc… these are skills that are not related to Electrical Engineering 



VincentDo said:


> Now, EA has been authorised by DIBP to give an opinion on your skilled employment (without this, it is far too hard to claim points from work exp).


This was a very good point you just told me!! Since I was planning to just send in my assessment to EA for skilled employement, and later only send my work experience certificates to the DIBP. 



VincentDo said:


> Finally, in term of skilled employment, of course it is demonstrated thru CDR. Try to make use of 3 career episodes to prove what you did was closely related to the nominated occupation.
> In short, there are only 3 career episodes required for both standard skill assessment and skilled employment


Ok, so you what you are saying I should focus preliminary on my related work experience in order to provide good CDRs and also present my work experience through my certificates in order to claim 3 years and get 5 points for them?

What I am worried about is how they will assess my company that I had for 2 years. I only need 1 year work experience from this career episode. I was mostly seling high-tech electronics engineering equipment, but it requires Electronics Eng knowledge, otherwiese impossible to sell anything.

And I ask you before, do you really think they will assess my employee career episodes togheter as 24 months, or less?

BIG THANKS AGAIN!!


----------



## VincentDo (Nov 12, 2013)

Warciosu said:


> Thanks Vincent!
> I have Electronics Engineer related experience in 3 episodes:
> First job from 5th dec 2005 - 31st dec 2016 = 13 months
> Second job same company, jan 8th - june 27th = 6 months
> ...


work exp should be calculated accurately (this will be verified again by DIBP)

First job from 5th dec 2005 - 31st dec 2016 = 12 months + 26 days
Second job same company, jan 8th - june 27th = 5 months + 19 days
Third job, 1st nov - 16th march = 4 months + 15 days

total= 21 months + 60 days = 23 months


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## VincentDo (Nov 12, 2013)

Warciosu said:


> Vincent, I have. I just want to listen you guys out and clarify what is best to do.
> Do you have an example of a CDR that you have written, that you are willing to share with me?


No, I did not keep one



Warciosu said:


> Ok, then I will include episodes from my work experience and studies.
> I am just worried about the CDP, where I dont have to much to show that I did in order to keep myself updated with my knowledge. Especially last 3 years where I am working with IT, also finished an MBA degree, etc… these are skills that are not related to Electrical Engineering


CDP is like the employment section of your CV (1 page). The purpose is to list out (and show EA) what you have been doing since graduation. It is the fact so nothing you can do differently. 



Warciosu said:


> Ok, so you what you are saying I should focus preliminary on my related work experience in order to provide good CDRs and also present my work experience through my certificates in order to claim 3 years and get 5 points for them?
> 
> What I am worried about is how they will assess my company that I had for 2 years. I only need 1 year work experience from this career episode. I was mostly seling high-tech electronics engineering equipment, but it requires Electronics Eng knowledge, otherwiese impossible to sell anything.


Do both skill assessment and skilled employment in one shot to save time. As you imagine, if you choose projects from work, they help to support your claim of work exp. It is your task to prove that your skills you had when running your company were related to electronics eng.
Make sure you provide all the supporting document required on the checklist. 



Warciosu said:


> And I ask you before, do you really think they will assess my employee career episodes togheter as 24 months, or less?


I have answered this in separate reply.


----------



## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

Warciosu said:


> Yes I understand. So work experience will basically be assessed later by the immigrations office once they receive my application I guess?
> But my "certificates of employment" cover only 2 years. I have also been running an eletronics engineering company for 2 years, so I hope they will at least account 1 year of work experience for that as well. Then I could get my 5 points for work experience.
> 
> Btw, do you know how they count the months?
> ...


VincentDu has already answered your questions here I think.




Warciosu said:


> Ok, then I will include episodes from my work experience and studies.
> I am just worried about the CDP, where I dont have to much to show that I did in order to keep myself updated with my knowledge. Especially last 3 years where I am working with IT, also finished an MBA degree, etc… these are skills that are not related to Electrical Engineering


I'm quite sure your MBA could also be counted for CPD. The things I included mine were my postgraduate studies, training programs, Conferences and certifications. This is not a big thing. Just put anything that you think is relevant.


----------



## AusEng (Mar 9, 2014)

Hello every one,

I'm a newbie in this forum. The forum is really very helpful for people who want to migrate to Australia like me. I have a lot of questions about migrating process but most have been clarified by reading your questions and answers in this forum. Thanks a lot for your Q&A.
However, I still have some questions that I'm still unsure, which are somehow similar to the content of this thread so I would like to raise my questions hereafter instead of opening a new thread. 
Can you please take a look at my case? I hope to you can give me some advices.

I'm planning to submit skill & work experience assessment to EA but my problem is somehow like Dan's. I finished MSc of Chemical Engineering in Europe 10 years ago, which was a 5-year program without Bachelor degree, but I've been working relating to Petroleum Engineering for 9 years, so I would apply for 233612 Petroleum Engineer.
My concern is if I can get 15 points for qualification and 5 points for work experience.
(My point scheme is:
Age: 25
IELTS: 10 (not achieved yet but will try again and again)
Partner skill: 5 (my wife is accountant and she can get IELTS 6 all band)
So I still need 20 points to achieve 60 point target.)


I'm thinking of 3 options for getting 20 points as below. Can you please advise if any of them is practical?

Option 1: I will submit now hoping to get 15 points for positive qualification assessment, and at least 5 points for 3 years of experience. 
My major in MSc of Chemical Engineering was Oil & Gas processing in refineries, which in my view is a little bit relating to Petroleum Engineering, which is about Oil & Gas production in oil/gas fields. 
During my 9 years of working relating to oil/gas fields, actually only the last 3 years were purely Petroleum Engineer, the previous 6 years I think were half Petroleum Engineer (233612) half Production & Plant Engineer (233513) because I did things like a plant engineer in an oil field.
This is just my thinking. In case EA (and DIBP) sees no relation between my MSc major and my current job, do you think they will give me 20 points? 
I have taken several 1-week training courses on Petroleum Engineering during the 9 working years so it's easy for me to write CPD. I can write CDR for 3 career periods as well.
However, I just read EA's answer to Dan that:
"It is highly unlikely that you would obtain an assessment outcome as an Electrical Engineer, no matter how much work experience you have. You are more likely to be assessed as an Electronics Engineer."
Why did they say "no matter how much work experience you have"? If I have good experience and CPD process then I should be able to be assessed for both qualification and experience although they are different disciplines, is this right?

Option 2: I've been doing distance learning of MSc Petroleum Engineering from a European university for 2 years but I need soonest 1 more year to get the MSc certificate. Is it better to wait until I get this certificate to submit assessment to EA? Will they be more ready to grant me 20 points or it's just the same like Option 1?
Also, if I go with Option 1, should I mention this distance learning in my CPD?

Option 3: In case the 2 options above fail, I would finish my MSc Petroleum Engineering first and then submit to EA this qualification with my working experience, both qualification and experience are in line then. 
However, I read from this forum that they just accept experience post graduation, this means I need to work for 3 more years after finishing my MSc Petroleum Engineering to claim 5 points of experience. But by that time I will be exactly 39 years old. Will I be able to get a visa then? I mean I will submit EOI when I'm exactly 39, being able to claim 5 points for experience as just by that time I will have enough 3 years working post graduation, but the visa process will take further time, then I will be over 39 when they review my case, will they still grant me visa then?


I think I should try Option 1 first, then Option 2 if the first fails, and then Option 3 if the second also fails. But I would like to get your ideas on how far I can succeed with these options. 
Please give me some ideas before I can go ahead with the submission. Appreciate your support.


Thanks a lot,
Viet


----------



## VincentDo (Nov 12, 2013)

AusEng said:


> Hello every one,
> I'm planning to submit skill & work experience assessment to EA but my problem is somehow like Dan's. I finished MSc of Chemical Engineering in Europe 10 years ago, which was a 5-year program without Bachelor degree, but I've been working relating to Petroleum Engineering for 9 years, so I would apply for 233612 Petroleum Engineer.
> My concern is if I can get 15 points for qualification and 5 points for work experience.
> (My point scheme is:
> ...


I think you can aim for 15 points (qualification) and 15 points (for >8 yrs overseas work exp).
To claim partner pts, your partner also needs to obtain a positive skill assessment. 



AusEng said:


> Option 2: I've been doing distance learning of MSc Petroleum Engineering from a European university for 2 years but I need soonest 1 more year to get the MSc certificate. Is it better to wait until I get this certificate to submit assessment to EA? Will they be more ready to grant me 20 points or it's just the same like Option 1?
> Also, if I go with Option 1, should I mention this distance learning in my CPD?


Go for option 1 and list out any trainings and courses up-to-date in your CPD



AusEng said:


> Option 3: In case the 2 options above fail, I would finish my MSc Petroleum Engineering first and then submit to EA this qualification with my working experience, both qualification and experience are in line then.
> However, I read from this forum that they just accept experience post graduation, this means I need to work for 3 more years after finishing my MSc Petroleum Engineering to claim 5 points of experience. But by that time I will be exactly 39 years old. Will I be able to get a visa then? I mean I will submit EOI when I'm exactly 39, being able to claim 5 points for experience as just by that time I will have enough 3 years working post graduation, but the visa process will take further time, then I will be over 39 when they review my case, will they still grant me visa then?


You are eligible for skilled visas as long as you are <50 yrs old, but you loose points when you turn 40.



AusEng said:


> I think I should try Option 1 first, then Option 2 if the first fails, and then Option 3 if the second also fails. But I would like to get your ideas on how far I can succeed with these options.
> Please give me some ideas before I can go ahead with the submission. Appreciate your support.
> Thanks a lot,
> Viet


Option 1 is feasible


----------



## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

AusEng said:


> In case EA (and DIBP) sees no relation between my MSc major and my current job, do you think they will give me 20 points?


Just to clarify something here. I haven't seen anywhere, where it is mentioned that your bacholors degree has to be related to the nominated occupation to get 15 points for that. In fact I think it can be in a completly unrelated field.

Relevancy of your education to your job comes when you want to get the skills assessment.


----------



## AusEng (Mar 9, 2014)

VincentDo said:


> I think you can aim for 15 points (qualification) and 15 points (for >8 yrs overseas work exp).
> To claim partner pts, your partner also needs to obtain a positive skill assessment.


Hi VincentDo, 
Thanks a lot for your review and advice to all my questions, really appreciated. 
I will definitely go for this option then, it's so good if I can get 15 points for >8 yrs work exp, then my wife doesn't need to submit for skill assessment to help me with 5 more points. I will try and see. 
Hope to continue getting your advice during my long way ahead for a 189 visa.




AncientGlory said:


> Just to clarify something here. I haven't seen anywhere, where it is mentioned that your bacholors degree has to be related to the nominated occupation to get 15 points for that. In fact I think it can be in a completly unrelated field.
> Relevancy of your education to your job comes when you want to get the skills assessment.


Hi AncientGlory,
Thanks a lot for your clarification. I'm glad to hear that 15 points of bachelor degree can be unrelated to nominated occupation. 
However, as I need at least 20 points more, so beside the 15 points of bachelor degree, I still need at least 5 points for experience, i.e. at least 3 years of relevant working exp.

The reason I'm anxious about this 5-point experience is the way ACS assesses experience with non-relevant bachelor degree that I read from this forum. Sorry I can't attach the thread links here as I'm not active member yet, but I understand from reading these threads that ACS will require to submit RPL in this case and deduct 6 years of experience. 
So if EA does the same (which I don't know as there is fewer info about EA than ACS thru these threads, and no such info either from EA website), I need to do RPL and have only 3 years left from my total 9 years of experience, and if they don't assess all my 9 years as Petroleum Engineer (my nominated occupation), then I will have even less than 3 years left and can't get 5 points for experience at all.

That was my worry. I will be very happy if it is a silly assumption. So does EA do differently from ACS and can I be confident that I can get at least 3 yrs exp from skill assessment?

I did read thru your CPD info and wish to get a positive skill assessment like you, but your Computer Engineering degree should be related to your nominated Telecommunications Engineering, and you also have a PhD on this nominated occupation, so my case is less favorable than yours.

Although you and VincentDo have just provided positive advice on my individual case, can I make a brief on the jargons and rules of the 2 assessments with ACS and EA as below, just for my clearer understanding?

1) Qualification assessment = Education assessment = Bachelor degree
2) Work experience = Skilled employment = Skill assessment

For ACS, 1) can be assessed independently, irrespective what 2) is, but 2) cannot be assessed without 1), 2) will be impacted heavily if 1) and 2) are not relevant. 
DIAC will assess the same as ACS if ACS is the assessing authority.

For EA, both 1) and 2) are assessed independently, one can have positive result irrespective what the other is.
And DIAC will assess the same as EA if EA is the assessing authority.

Sorry if I'm describing so complicated, but I find these assessment rules are really complicated. It took me very long time studying the info but I'm still not 100% clear so far.

Thanks all again for your help.

Cheers,
Viet


----------



## VincentDo (Nov 12, 2013)

AusEng said:


> Hi VincentDo,
> 
> 1) Qualification assessment = Education assessment = Bachelor degree
> 2) Work experience = Skilled employment = Skill assessment
> ...


1. First of all, why are you mentioning about ACS, both petri eng and chemical eng belong to EA. 
2. Comparing between ACS and EA (only for those who have Eng and IT related skills ), EA is always a better choice coz EA never deducts any work exp. 
3. In fact, the process is very simple and straightforward:

(i) points for qualification or education assessment (15 pts for bachelor or ms), you need to get your "overseas" degree assessed as equivalent to at least an Australian Bachelor. It can be done by a different assessing authority if you have a degree unrelated to the nominated occupation. 
Here is the quote from DIBP website:
"The relevant assessing authority for your nominated occupation can usually determine whether your qualifications are of a standard that is comparable to a relevant Australian qualification.
If the relevant assessing authority that conducts your skills assessment cannot give you an opinion about your qualifications, contact Vocational Education Training and Assessment Services."

(ii) skill assessment (a must)+ skilled employment(optional service): work exp must be related or closely related (same ANZSCO unit group) to your nominated occupation. Thus, these two should be assessed by one assessing authority. 

In short, in your case, (i) & (ii) can be included in one application and EA will give opinions on both. Thus, if your application for petro eng is successful, you may be able to get the maximum of 30 points here (15 qualification+ 15 work exp). Hope this has made clear to you.


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## AusEng (Mar 9, 2014)

VincentDo said:


> 1. First of all, why are you mentioning about ACS, both petri eng and chemical eng belong to EA.
> 2. Comparing between ACS and EA (only for those who have Eng and IT related skills ), EA is always a better choice coz EA never deducts any work exp.
> 3. In fact, the process is very simple and straightforward:
> (i)
> ...


Hi VincentDo,
Many thanks for your clarification. I was searching a lot on how EA deducts work exp yrs and your advice "EA is always a better choice coz EA never deducts any work exp" now makes me feel very very happy. 
From reading a lot about ACS rules on deducting work exp yrs in this forum, I just automatically thought that all assessing authorities will do the same, just to make it fair for all skilled migrants, although I can't find clear info about this both in the forum and in EA webpage. Sorry for my silly thinking.
But now your advice makes it very clear to me. So EA and ACS do differently, it seems very unfavorable for those who need to assess with ACS but don't have relevant education.
I aimed for only 20 points as a successful application but it's really great that I can get 30 points with it. Again thank you very much for your detailed info and advice.


I just have 1 unclear thing left from your answer and AncientGlory's below. I think it's not affecting my submission process if I understand it wrongly but please explain to me for my clearer understanding if you don't mind.



VincentDo said:


> (ii) skill assessment (a must)+ skilled employment(optional service): work exp must be related or closely related (same ANZSCO unit group) to your nominated occupation. Thus, these two should be assessed by one assessing authority.





AncientGlory said:


> Relevancy of your education to your job comes when you want to get the skills assessment.


So skill assessment,which is a must, is different from skilled employment, which is optional?
From EA Migration Skills Assessment Booklet, I see only 2 assessments:
1) Qualification, including CDR with 3 Career Episodes. This is a must.
2) Skilled employment for work exp yr count, which is optional.

Now you say "skill assessment (a must)+ skilled employment(optional)" and AncientGlory says "Relevancy of education to job" when doing "skills assessment", then I try to understand differently, please advise if it's correct:
1) Qualification assessment, which is for oversea degree recognition, no need to relate to work exp.
2) CDR with 3 Career Episodes is the skill assessment, this is a must. Can be added with skilled employment for work exp yr count, but this is optional.

The relevancy of education to job lies in the CDR, where we need to talk about our development progress from education to job. Is this right?

Thanks,
Viet


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## VincentDo (Nov 12, 2013)

AusEng said:


> Hi VincentDo,
> 
> I just have 1 unclear thing left from your answer and AncientGlory's below. I think it's not affecting my submission process if I understand it wrongly but please explain to me for my clearer understanding if you don't mind.
> 
> ...


Occupations are all different in nature, so assessing authorities have set different eligibility criteria. It is hard to say "fair or unfair"

Don't be confused between points for qualifications and those for skilled employment. 
1. To claim 15 points for qualifications, you just need to have a degree equivalent to at least AU bachelor degree (it can be in any occupations even those which are not in SOL/CSOL)
2. To claim points for work exp, you are required to have work exp related /closely related to your nominated occupation. That's why work exp is normally associated with skill assessment. Of course, there must be a relevant education (normally in tertiary level) that has led to these work experiences. 

e.g. Let's imagine, if you have a 2-year diploma of eng with 3 years of work exp and a fresh bachelor of commerce without any work exp. You may wish to use the bachelor to just claim 15 points for qualification (assessed by a different party), and the diploma for skill assessment (can be assessed by EA as Engineering Associate/Draftsperson including specialisations) and at the same time claim 5 points for the work exp associated with the diploma.

Let me know if anything is unclear/


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## AusEng (Mar 9, 2014)

VincentDo said:


> e.g. Let's imagine, if you have a 2-year diploma of eng with 3 years of work exp and a fresh bachelor of commerce without any work exp. You may wish to use the bachelor to just claim 15 points for qualification (assessed by a different party), and the diploma for skill assessment (can be assessed by EA as Engineering Associate/Draftsperson including specialisations) and at the same time claim 5 points for the work exp associated with the diploma.
> 
> Let me know if anything is unclear/


Hi VincentDo, 
Your explanation and example are great, I can clearly understand the difference between qualification, skill assessment, and skilled employment now.
I just can't make it clear by reading EA and DIAC papers. But you have helped make it clear to me now. 
Thanks a lot for many of your valuable advice so far. Hope to continue receiving support from all of you later.

Cheers,
Viet


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## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

AusEng said:


> The reason I'm anxious about this 5-point experience is the way ACS assesses experience with non-relevant bachelor degree that I read from this forum. Sorry I can't attach the thread links here as I'm not active member yet, but I understand from reading these threads that ACS will require to submit RPL in this case and deduct 6 years of experience.
> So if EA does the same (which I don't know as there is fewer info about EA than ACS thru these threads, and no such info either from EA website), I need to do RPL and have only 3 years left from my total 9 years of experience, and if they don't assess all my 9 years as Petroleum Engineer (my nominated occupation), then I will have even less than 3 years left and can't get 5 points for experience at all.


Just to add something to the discussion, there's no such thing equivalent to ACS RPL path with EA. It seems that to get a positive assessment, you need to have some sort of educational qualification.


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

VincentDo said:


> work exp should be calculated accurately (this will be verified again by DIBP)
> 
> First job from 5th dec 2005 - 31st dec 2016 = 12 months + 26 days
> Second job same company, jan 8th - june 27th = 5 months + 19 days
> ...


Here it was my mistake, the second job was actually 8 months, and not only 5 



VincentDo said:


> In fact, skilled employment includes self-employment. You can be an employer. However, bear in mind that they are going to assess your SKILLs, so it is the individual duties performed that matter, Not your position/title. Therefore, of course every employment (post-qualification) counts.





AncientGlory said:


> I'm quite sure your MBA could also be counted for CPD. The things I included mine were my postgraduate studies, training programs, Conferences and certifications. This is not a big thing. Just put anything that you think is relevant.


AncientGlory and Vincent,
What do you think about this:
I have read the EA booklet and the only document that they accept for self-employment or in my case the company I had direclty related to my previous work experience is:
"For periods of self-employment, the following certified copies or original documents may be acceptable:
1 - commissions that are signed by each of the clients for each project;
2 - proof of formal Registration (including duration) as an engineer in the home country;
3 - receipts issued for projects;
4 - third party confirmation of the period of self- employment, the position held and the individual duties performed.
"
1 - Dont have these!
2 - I dont have to be registered as an engineer in Sweden.
3 - I have PDF invoices from my previous deals. Not sure how they will accept them.
4 - This is probably the only real documentation I have gathered, which is indication of me as an owner of my previous company from the Swedish company registry and a document from the tax authorities in Sweden. of my registration and taxes I paid, since I was the owner.

Question:
Do you think that my documents in point 4 is enough to get my work experience assessed and counted for the time I was running my electronics engineering company?




VincentDo said:


> Now, EA has been authorised by DIBP to give an opinion on your skilled employment (without this, it is far too hard to claim points from work exp).
> Finally, in term of skilled employment, of course it is demonstrated thru CDR. Try to make use of 3 career episodes to prove what you did was closely related to the nominated occupation.
> In short, there are only 3 career episodes required for both standard skill assessment and skilled employment


I understand! So I have prepared everything and will send all the papers for both education and work experience assessment to EA. Just not sure about my self-employment/company I was running.

Verified copies:
Do you know if I need to provide 2 verified copies of each "certificate of employment", since one set of copies will go towards the skill assessment and one set towards the work experience assessment?

And also, do I need to prepare another set of verified copies of all my documents again for the DIBP after I receive my invitation for visa application??




VincentDo said:


> Do both skill assessment and skilled employment in one shot to save time. As you imagine, if you choose projects from work, they help to support your claim of work exp. It is your task to prove that your skills you had when running your company were related to electronics eng.
> Make sure you provide all the supporting document required on the checklist.


This is my plan, but not sure about the documents I need to prove my company. I really hope that the documents from the registries in Sweden is enough.



VincentDo said:


> G'luck to your application


Big thanks Vincent and AncientGlory! I really look forward to finally send all my documents and papers. It is a rather big application process.

One more important question:
I am preparing all this in order to get the Skilled Immigration 189 visa as soon as possible.
But can I still apply for this VISA, if I am enrolled in job interviews and a company want to get me a 457 temporary work VISA. Will I still be able to apply for a skilled immigration 189 visa, or are there any limitations if I get a 457 VISA first ??

Thank you for your answers!!


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

AncientGlory said:


> Just to clarify something here. I haven't seen anywhere, where it is mentioned that your bacholors degree has to be related to the nominated occupation to get 15 points for that. In fact I think it can be in a completly unrelated field.
> 
> Relevancy of your education to your job comes when you want to get the skills assessment.


But AncientGlory, I thought the entire EA assessment is to get your education validated so you can aaccount for these points. In other words, you need to provide everything that is neccessary to EA to be able to get 15 points for your masters degree.
The work experience is just so they can give you their opinion if your work experience is related and valid towards a nomination category for a job position that Australia needs.

So what is the EA assessment for, if you mean it does not have to be related to the nominated occupation??


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## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

Warciosu said:


> AncientGlory and Vincent,
> What do you think about this:
> I have read the EA booklet and the only document that they accept for self-employment or in my case the company I had direclty related to my previous work experience is:
> "For periods of self-employment, the following certified copies or original documents may be acceptable:
> ...


My opinion is that these would be sufficient for EA. 



Warciosu said:


> Big thanks Vincent and AncientGlory! I really look forward to finally send all my documents and papers. It is a rather big application process.
> 
> One more important question:
> I am preparing all this in order to get the Skilled Immigration 189 visa as soon as possible.
> ...


There are no such limitations for the 457 visa to the best of my knowledge. If a particular visa has a "no further stay" condition, you cannot apply for another visa while you are in Australia. 457 has no such restrictions.

You are quite welcome. Good luck with your application mate.


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## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

Warciosu said:


> But AncientGlory, I thought the entire EA assessment is to get your education validated so you can aaccount for these points. In other words, you need to provide everything that is neccessary to EA to be able to get 15 points for your masters degree.
> The work experience is just so they can give you their opinion if your work experience is related and valid towards a nomination category for a job position that Australia needs.
> 
> So what is the EA assessment for, if you mean it does not have to be related to the nominated occupation??


There is a basic requirement for the eligibility of general skilled migration that says you should have a skilled occupation. Assessment is to verify that you are skilled. If you have the basic requirements (Age, Skills, English) then you can see how many points you have. You can get 10 - 25 points for your education. Consider following scenarios and you will understand.

(1) ACS (Australian Computer Society) will assess you as skilled even without a diploma if you have enough experience (around 8 years or more). 

(2) Say you are an Electrical Engineer with a PhD in Economics. 
- You will get your assessment as an Electrical Engineer - Basic requirement
- You can claim 20 points for your PhD in Economics. In this case your PhD is not relevant to the nominated occupation.

Assessement is a basic requirement. Claiming points for education is optional. To claim points for your education, you don't necessarily need an assessment. For an example, my PhD was not assessed by EA. My assessment letter specifically says my bachelors degree was assessed. PhD is not mentioned anywhere. But I claimed 25 points for it.


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

AncientGlory said:


> There is a basic requirement for the eligibility of general skilled migration that says you should have a skilled occupation. Assessment is to verify that you are skilled. If you have the basic requirements (Age, Skills, English) then you can see how many points you have. You can get 10 - 25 points for your education. Consider following scenarios and you will understand.
> 
> (1) ACS (Australian Computer Society) will assess you as skilled even without a diploma if you have enough experience (around 8 years or more).
> 
> ...


Not sure I fully understand. You got your general assessmend, as you mention, it is a general requirement. Then you claimed points for age, english, education and work experience. And you mean you got 25 points for PhD at the immigrations?

In my case:
Age: 25p
English: 20p
Edcuation: 15p (even if I have 2 Master programs under my belt)
Work experience: only 5p ?!?
Work experience: trying to get 5p here for relevant work experience related to my general skilled assessment. But I have worked more then 7 years. You mean I can only get points for work experience if it is related to my skilled assessment nomination code, correct?
So if I have only 3 years of work experience as an electrical engineer, then I can only get 5 points? No extra points for other work experience I gained afterwards?
Did I understand this correctly?


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## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

Warciosu said:


> Not sure I fully understand. You got your general assessmend, as you mention, it is a general requirement. Then you claimed points for age, english, education and work experience. And you mean you got 25 points for PhD at the immigrations?


That is correct. I claimed 25 points for my education from DIBP. And I did not claim any points for work experience.



Warciosu said:


> In my case:
> Age: 25p
> English: 20p
> Edcuation: 15p (even if I have 2 Master programs under my belt)
> ...


Yes that is correct. You can claim points for only *relevant* work experience. This means that your work experience should be related to the nominated occupation. Note that no such cluase is given for your education. DIBP says you can claim upto 25 points for your education. However, it is not mentioned anywhere that the education should be related to the nominated occupation.


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

espresso said:


> AncientGlory said:
> 
> 
> > VincentDo said:
> ...


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## VincentDo (Nov 12, 2013)

1. Your ielts looks awesome, but unfortunately it only gives you 10 points. I think you can try to retake until you get 8s. It's worth getting 20 points since you are capable of achieving it.

2. All the documents should be certified and translate (if not written in English). Files will not be returned thus don't submit the original ones.

3. Regarding points for qualification from earlier posts. I'd like to add that though a degree does not necessarily need to be relevant to your nominated occupation to get points for qualification, it is said to be AU standard or recognised. A non-AU qualification is not automatically recognised, thus need to be assessed by an assessing authority. 
For point scale, i believe 25 points include max 20 points of PhD + 5 points for AU study requirement (those who obtained a degree in AU for more than 2 years studies)


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## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

Warciosu said:


> AncientGlory,Espresso, VincentDo….
> 
> I just received my IELTS score, and it was:
> 9, 8, 7.5 & 8.5
> ...


If you have time and money, and if you think you can do better you should give it another go and try to improve the 7.5 to an 8. Don't just try out luck. Try to improve on what you are lacking and do the exam.



Warciosu said:


> I thought that the maximim point for education was 20points for doctarate degree. How did you get 25?





VincentDo said:


> For point scale, i believe 25 points include max 20 points of PhD + 5 points for AU study requirement (those who obtained a degree in AU for more than 2 years studies)


This is correct. I did my PhD in Australia.


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## AusEng (Mar 9, 2014)

AncientGlory said:


> Just to add something to the discussion, there's no such thing equivalent to ACS RPL path with EA. It seems that to get a positive assessment, you need to have some sort of educational qualification.


Thank you for your clarification AncientGlory. Yes previously I did search the RPL info in EA website but didn't find any RPL for migration purpose but just for EA membership. However, as consulted by VincentDo then I don't need to care about this anymore 
Thanks a lot.
Viet


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## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

AusEng said:


> Thank you for your clarification AncientGlory. Yes previously I did search the RPL info in EA website but didn't find any RPL for migration purpose but just for EA membership. However, as consulted by VincentDo then I don't need to care about this anymore
> Thanks a lot.
> Viet


No worries mate. You are welcome. Good luck with your application.


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

VincentDo said:


> 1. Your ielts looks awesome, but unfortunately it only gives you 10 points. I think you can try to retake until you get 8s. It's worth getting 20 points since you are capable of achieving it.


Thank you, I will retry once I get a positive skills nomination first.



VincentDo said:


> 2. All the documents should be certified and translate (if not written in English). Files will not be returned thus don't submit the original ones.


Ok, but what happens after I get my skill nomination and EA keeps all the documents? Do I really need to send new certified certificates of employment, etc.. to the immigrations office after I get an invitation?
Or are these documents only needed once when I send them to EA? I also want EA to assess my employment so I can get those 5points for work experience. Will they keep these certifcates of employment?


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## VincentDo (Nov 12, 2013)

Warciosu said:


> Ok, but what happens after I get my skill nomination and EA keeps all the documents? Do I really need to send new certified certificates of employment, etc.. to the immigrations office after I get an invitation?
> Or are these documents only needed once when I send them to EA? I also want EA to assess my employment so I can get those 5points for work experience. Will they keep these certifcates of employment?


EA and DIBP are different bodies. Thus, you need to deal with them separately. While EA requires hardcopies to assess your application, DIBP facilitates you with online application (after you are invited, you just need to submit soft copies of certified documents to prove the claim in your EOI - check their booklet for details of who can do the certification)
The key note here is just that you never want to send your original documents as (i) they will never be returned, and you will lose them forever (ii) in some cases, you may be required to show your original docs for verification purpose. 
With original documents, you can easily reproduce certified copies of those documents whenever required.


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

VincentDo said:


> EA and DIBP are different bodies. Thus, you need to deal with them separately. While EA requires hardcopies to assess your application, DIBP facilitates you with online application (after you are invited, you just need to submit soft copies of certified documents to prove the claim in your EOI - check their booklet for details of who can do the certification)
> The key note here is just that you never want to send your original documents as (i) they will never be returned, and you will lose them forever (ii) in some cases, you may be required to show your original docs for verification purpose.
> With original documents, you can easily reproduce certified copies of those documents whenever required.


Great information Vincent, thanks a lot!
Good to hear that DIBS is so much easier. Can you provide soft original copies to DIBS? 
I have a "certificate of employment" from a different country and my local notarius publicus could NOT sign the "certificete of employment" from Sweden. This perticular certificte I will send as an original to EA since I received 3 originals with stamps and signatures.

Sponsorship 457 visa:
I was just informed by a potential employer that with a 457 visa there are new rules that allow me to apply for a premanent residency after 2 years. Is this true?


----------



## VincentDo (Nov 12, 2013)

Warciosu said:


> Great information Vincent, thanks a lot!
> Good to hear that DIBS is so much easier. Can you provide soft original copies to DIBS?
> I have a "certificate of employment" from a different country and my local notarius publicus could NOT sign the "certificete of employment" from Sweden. This perticular certificte I will send as an original to EA since I received 3 originals with stamps and signatures.


I once saw in this forum someone who was able to submit a "color" scanned version of their original docs. But don't assume it will be accepted for all types of docs and at all times. For instance, it might be okay to use soft original copies if they are originally in color. However, some original docs like job contracts or reference letter are sometimes in black and white (except signatures) which is easy to make fraudulent copies. That's why we need certification.

check this booklet (page 35) about the requirement
http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/booklets/1119.pdf

You may be required to submit the certified copies at later stage, so why not do it now.
I don't understand the part "....my local notarius publicus could NOT sign the "certificete of employment" from Sweden..", their job is to just certify the true copy of original docs.
if they really can't, you pay someone else then.




Warciosu said:


> Sponsorship 457 visa:
> I was just informed by a potential employer that with a 457 visa there are new rules that allow me to apply for a premanent residency after 2 years. Is this true?


Yes, that's the current rule. 
457 holders can go for 186-Temporary Residence Transition stream should they fulfill all other requirements for that visa.


----------



## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

Warciosu said:


> Great information Vincent, thanks a lot!
> Good to hear that DIBS is so much easier. Can you provide soft original copies to DIBS?
> I have a "certificate of employment" from a different country and my local notarius publicus could NOT sign the "certificete of employment" from Sweden. This perticular certificte I will send as an original to EA since I received 3 originals with stamps and signatures.


I have seen cases where users uploading color scanned non-certified copies of documents and getting their grant. I have also seen cases where COs have requested for certified copies. I think this depends on your CO.

While DIBP website and skilled migration booklet advices you to upload certified copies, gsm teams sometimes give you different advice it seems. Following is an extract from an email I got from my CO while requesting additional documents.



> GSM Adelaide accepts scanned copies. If possible, please provide colour scanned copiesof original documents. If you are unable to colour scan documents, please ensure that thedocuments you scan are certified copies.


----------



## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

VincentDo said:


> You may be required to submit the certified copies at later stage, so why not do it now.
> I don't understand the part "....my local notarius publicus could NOT sign the "certificete of employment" from Sweden..", their job is to just certify the true copy of original docs.
> if they really can't, you pay someone else then.


The problem is that according to swedish law, a swedish notarius publicus is NOT allowed to verify a document from outside of Sweden, if the person is not there physically, or something like that. So I didnt get my original certificate from abroad certified. I will go with the color scan version. 



VincentDo said:


> Yes, that's the current rule.
> 457 holders can go for 186-Temporary Residence Transition stream should they fulfill all other requirements for that visa.


Ok, I will read into this as well.

One more important question:
I am currently engaged in a sponsorship situation and the recruiter also told me that it is very easy to transfer a 457 temp work visa from one employer to another employer if needed. That means, that if I would be headhunted after 6-12 months, then it is eeasy for the new employer to just somehow "transfer" this visa, so I dont have to leave Australia, if something happens with the first employer. Is this the case?


----------



## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

AncientGlory said:


> I have seen cases where users uploading color scanned non-certified copies of documents and getting their grant. I have also seen cases where COs have requested for certified copies. I think this depends on your CO.
> 
> While DIBP website and skilled migration booklet advices you to upload certified copies, gsm teams sometimes give you different advice it seems. Following is an extract from an email I got from my CO while requesting additional documents.


I will use the scanned color option for my certificate from abroad. Otherwise it would jsut be to complicated to go abroad, just to go to a notarius publicus in order to get a certified copy.

AncientGlory, what is your take on the sponsorship question?

I am currently engaged in a sponsorship situation and the recruiter also told me that it is very easy to transfer a 457 temp work visa from one employer(the one I am talking to right now) to another employer if needed in the future. That means, that if I would be headhunted after 6-12 months, then it is eeasy for the new employer to just somehow "transfer" this visa, so I dont have to leave Australia, if something happens with the first employer. Is this the case?


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

Any answer guys?

Happy Easter btw!


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

Could anyone send me examples of:
1) one or two career episode examples
2) a summary statement of evidence for the competency elements
and also
3) Continuing Professional Development document.


Appreciate your help guys!!!!


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## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

Warciosu said:


> I will use the scanned color option for my certificate from abroad. Otherwise it would jsut be to complicated to go abroad, just to go to a notarius publicus in order to get a certified copy.
> 
> AncientGlory, what is your take on the sponsorship question?
> 
> I am currently engaged in a sponsorship situation and the recruiter also told me that it is very easy to transfer a 457 temp work visa from one employer(the one I am talking to right now) to another employer if needed in the future. That means, that if I would be headhunted after 6-12 months, then it is eeasy for the new employer to just somehow "transfer" this visa, so I dont have to leave Australia, if something happens with the first employer. Is this the case?


Yeah, you can transfer the visa, however, your new employee must be eligible to sponsor you. Also, if you loose your current job and if you can't find a new job within a short period of time ( Can't remember exactly, around 2 months maybe) you have to leave.

It is a good option for temparary stay, and quick visa processing I think. However, you should go for PR for the long run.


----------



## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

AncientGlory said:


> Yeah, you can transfer the visa, however, your new employee must be eligible to sponsor you. Also, if you loose your current job and if you can't find a new job within a short period of time ( Can't remember exactly, around 2 months maybe) you have to leave.
> 
> It is a good option for temparary stay, and quick visa processing I think. However, you should go for PR for the long run.


Ancient, what does it mean exaclty that the employer has to be eligible to sponsor me? Is this not an easy thign to obtain for a potential employer?

Thanks!

Also:
Do you care to share with some of your: 
1) one or two career episode examples
2) a summary statement of evidence for the competency elements
and also
3) Continuing Professional Development document.

I have so much things to do so I never end up doing this huge EA application. I have prepared everything, just have these reports and episodes to do, and it seems to be quite a job while working on so much else right now.

Thank you AncientGlory!


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## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

Warciosu said:


> Ancient, what does it mean exaclty that the employer has to be eligible to sponsor me? Is this not an easy thign to obtain for a potential employer?
> 
> Thanks!


Please go to the following link and go to the "Sponsors" tab. You will find that there are certain eligibility requirements for an employer to sponsor someone for a 457 visa. If any company is given the chance to sponsor people, then I can also form a company and start sponsoring employees right?

Temporary Work (Skilled) visa (subclass 457)




Warciosu said:


> Also:
> Do you care to share with some of your:
> 1) one or two career episode examples
> 2) a summary statement of evidence for the competency elements
> ...


If I remember correctly, I already gave you one of my career episodes? I will take a look for summary statement and CPD. What is your email?


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

VincentDo said:


> espresso said:
> 
> 
> > AncientGlory said:
> ...


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

VincentDo said:


> espresso said:
> 
> 
> > AncientGlory said:
> ...


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## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

Warciosu said:


> VincentDo said:
> 
> 
> > espresso said:
> ...


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

AncientGlory said:


> Warciosu said:
> 
> 
> > VincentDo said:
> ...


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## AncientGlory (Aug 23, 2012)

Warciosu said:


> Thank you for your reply! Big thanks!
> 
> 1.
> About these health examinations: I basically just need to create the eMedical referral letter with my HAP ID number, and then just do my 3 required examiniations at a certified clinic. Thats it?
> ...


(1) Yeah. Just tell them you need to do the medical for the Australian PR visa. They will know what it is.

(2) That's correct. But better get color copies of your documents and get them attessed. Then get a scan of the attessed copy.

(3) You'll find them in the DIBP website.

(4) Correct. However, you need to make sure that you can claim all the points by the day you submit your EOI. For an example, if you claim you have 8 for IELTS and claim 20 points, you need to have already completed your IELTS. You cannot do IELTS a later day and add those results.


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## AusEng (Mar 9, 2014)

AusEng said:


> Thank you for your clarification AncientGlory. Yes previously I did search the RPL info in EA website but didn't find any RPL for migration purpose but just for EA membership. However, as consulted by VincentDo then I don't need to care about this anymore
> Thanks a lot.
> Viet





AncientGlory said:


> No worries mate. You are welcome. Good luck with your application.


Hello AncientGlory and everybody,

I would like to inform the result of my EA assessment and would like to have some further questions as well.

I sent all the assessment papers to EA in May, they received on 12-May-2014, and I just received an email reply on the first time on 23-July-2014. 
The CO didn't assess me as Petroleum Engineer as I wanted but he granted me the Chemical Engineer skill based on my degree. The email is as below:

"Dear 

Having read your application for assessment, I find that I cannot assess you as a Petroleum Engineer, as your degree does not support this finding. I am able to Assess you as a Chemical Engineer as Chemical is the basis of your degree. Much of your work, as outlined in your Career Episodes, is based on chemistry and the use of chemistry in the processes that you work on.

I will finalise your assessment as a Professional Chemical Engineer and a letter of assessment will now be prepared.

Regards"

So I assume that he will give me 9 years of experience as Chemical Engineer, which will give me 15 points, just exactly what you and VincentDo have advised?

But I still don't feel very comfortable with the Chemical Engineer. I still think the CO is very subjective in his decision just because of my degree, as I've been really working as a Petroleum Engineer, and in my 3 Career Episodes I've tried to write purely about Petroleum Engineering. The letter from my current boss also stated that my current position is Petroleum Engineer.

Anyway, it's actually not important to be Petroleum or Chemical Engineer as long as he gives me 9 year experience, but the only reason I'm not comfortable with Chemical Engineer is that I recall I have seen somewhere that Chemical Engineer was at lower demand than Petroleum Engineer, or even excluded from the SOL. 
But I've gone through the internet and can't find out something like that now. The webpage of DIBP seems to change as well and all my old links kept in Favorites are now invalid.

In summary, I would like to ask some more questions below, I hope you can help me again to clarify them and advise me what to do.

1. Do you know how to check the demand of Chemical Engineer (233111) and Petroleum Engineer (233612)? 
As in the current SOL both are still there. 
I've checked the latest Occupations Ceilings in SkillSelect and the Ceiling Value for Chemical & Material Engineer is 1000 and Actual Result is 21, while that for Mining Engineer (including Petroleum Engineer) are 1000 and 5. 
Then I understand that there not much difference between the 2 jobs, am I right?
But even in case Chemical Engineer is very bad, I still can't persuade him to change his mind, can I?

2. Should I reply to his email and ask him how many years of experience he grants, or does it obviously mean that he will grant as many as I claimed in the assessment application?

3. If I don't need to ask him question 2 above then I think I should still reply his email and say thank you. And that's all, I don't need to do any thing else but just wait for the letter?

Can you please advise for my questions? Thanks again for your help.

Thanks,
Viet


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

Dear Ancientglory and other Expatforum members,

I sent my application to EA in may and they received it in early june. I have still not heard from them. 

Do they give you a final decision over email or just normal post mail?

I have waiting over 2 months now, and still not heard anything from them. I prepared everything perfectly, so everything should be fine.


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## AusEng (Mar 9, 2014)

Hi Warciosu,

You can see in my case it took 2 months 10 days for them to inform the result via email. During this time I didn't receive anything at all.
So I guess you've got their email reply by now.

However, on the date they received the document, they deducted the assessment fee immediately from my credit card account and they did send the receipt via postal the next day. So once they took your money, I'm sure they will review and reply to your application.

Regards,
Viet


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## Warciosu (Feb 27, 2014)

AusEng said:


> Hi Warciosu,
> 
> You can see in my case it took 2 months 10 days for them to inform the result via email. During this time I didn't receive anything at all.
> So I guess you've got their email reply by now.
> ...


OK guys, I have recently received a possitive assessement as an Electronics Engineer and before that I also got a top score on my IELTS, 9, 8.5, 9, and 8.5. I am very happy and I have sent my EOI the other day. I did not get more then 1,5 years of relevant work experience, I was hoping for more then that. This means I am up to 60 points in total right now.
I hope I will get the invitation rather quickly, so I can finally apply for the visa.

Thank you for all your help so far, you have been of great help.


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## nabajitsaikia (Apr 17, 2012)

*Confusion on relevant work experience..please need your help*



espresso said:


> Hi Dan,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Espresso,
I have been going through your forum and it responses over the last one year and every time when i get confused , at first i go into your forum's various threads and started to reading all the answered you have made.To be honest its not only helping me a lots but also for the people who are willing to know about the Engineers Australia's Migration Assessment process. Today, I have one confusion for my fiancee's EA CDR. Actually, we have submitted CDR on 9th April 2015 and also aware that it takes time to finalized the outcome even though it's now in online submission. Anyhow, we did not apply for her 3+ years experience, what we did only CDR as i thought those part (assessing work experience) will be decided by the Australian Department of Immigration as long as by providing relevant payslips, bank statements and all to proof the 3+ years experience. That's why i am a bit worried now whether we did right or wrong. Secondly, If it's mandatory to assess her 'Relevant Work Experience' by paying additional fee then it is possible to do it now or now it's too late? How do Engineers Australia counts overseas work experience? Do they deducted one years experience out of total work experience. Your responses is highly appreciated mate.

Your's faithfully,
Nabajit


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## uqmraza2 (Jan 10, 2016)

Hi ALL,

I find this thread going well and everyone give such wonderful information.

I am wondering about my skill assessment from.

1. I did my BS in Electronics Engineering from Department of Electrical Engg.
2. Master degree which is MS in Electrical and Electronics Engineering (power engg.)
3. PhD in Information Technology and Electrical Engineering (power engg.)

after my BS studied, i did my job closely related to electrical engineering (233311).I am interested to assess my degree and working experience from EA. I am wondering that, can i assess my degree and work experience as a electrical engineer?


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## niga1107 (Dec 17, 2015)

AncientGlory said:


> There is a basic requirement for the eligibility of general skilled migration that says you should have a skilled occupation. Assessment is to verify that you are skilled. If you have the basic requirements (Age, Skills, English) then you can see how many points you have. You can get 10 - 25 points for your education. Consider following scenarios and you will understand.
> 
> (1) ACS (Australian Computer Society) will assess you as skilled even without a diploma if you have enough experience (around 8 years or more).
> 
> ...


Hi AncientGlory,
My case is very similar to your example # 2. I am an electronics engineer (bachelors plus masters (with thesis) in electronics engineering) with a PhD in management. 

How do I go about my assessment? I will be needed to get assessment by Engineers Australia. How do I gather PhD points?

Do I need to get my PhD assessed too from EA or Vetassess? 

Please help. I need major help in assessment process.

If you have samples or CPD, career episodes and summary statements, please share so that I can get some idea. I have already gone through the EA booklet but am so low on confidence.

If anyone can help me, it will give me some confidence to do this.....most of my friends who did assessment are from IT or software engineering, so unable to help me.

Thank you so much!!!!


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## adilmehmoodbutt (Aug 10, 2018)

I have MS Electrical engineering, Btech hons in electronics. But my whole experience in INformation technology, what will be the case for me through ACs or RBL ?


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