# Paying tax in spain for offshore worker



## markbrin1984 (Feb 5, 2013)

Hello

Could someone please shed some light on paying tax in spain, i currently live in the uk and look after my own tax affairs, Basically i work Offshore more then 186 days and therefore dont pay any tax, Do the same rules apply in spain.

Thanks

Mark


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

markbrin1984 said:


> Hello
> 
> Could someone please shed some light on paying tax in spain, i currently live in the uk and look after my own tax affairs, Basically i work Offshore more then 186 days and therefore dont pay any tax, Do the same rules apply in spain.
> 
> ...


it's not quite the same

there is the '183 day rule' - there's an active thread about this atm - whereby if you are not in Spain for more than 182 days a year you aren't considered tax resident, so donp't have to do a tax return/pay tax here

however - I understand your wife & child will be resident here?

in that case as far as Spain is concerned YOU are tax resident too, because you are financially supporting them, so you would have to submit a tax return & pay tax on your worldwide income


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## markbrin1984 (Feb 5, 2013)

Thanks for that,

How would the tax return work. Could I claim back expenses?


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Not unless you were self-employed .


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## markbrin1984 (Feb 5, 2013)

gus-lopez said:


> Not unless you were self-employed .


Thanks

That's the thing I am self employed, I believe you can pay 250 euros per month to the Spanish government if your a resident.?


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Yes if you register as 'autonomo' . Then you will be into iva (vat ), tax .etc. There is no 100k vat limit . If you are self-employed you have to register for vat.
I can't see why if you don't pay tax in the UK you would want to come here & hand over a huge chunk of money to the Spanish government ? 
They do not have the same '183+ days out the country & you don't pay' Or exempted occupations, seamen , offshore workers etc. They have the American system whereby even if you do not live here but are a Spanish national you have to declare for tax & , if necessary , pay.

P.S We have actually had people on here before asking the same question who have decided against it when they have realised that they would actually have to pay tax.


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## markbrin1984 (Feb 5, 2013)

Ok so everyone who is self employed in Spain pays a big chunk of tax.? 
I will still have a property in the uk when we leave for Spain so I will probably get round it that way


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## markbrin1984 (Feb 5, 2013)

Yes but my job does not guarantee 186 per year, some years are better then others, surely there is some way around the tax, obviously we all have to pay some tax. Say if I got 150 days one year how much tax would I be liable for, ? And would I be able to claim expenses ?


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

markbrin1984 said:


> Yes but my job does not guarantee 186 per year, some years are better then others, surely there is some way around the tax, obviously we all have to pay some tax. Say if I got 150 days one year how much tax would I be liable for, ? And would I be able to claim expenses ?


I don't think how many days you work has much relevance - it depends on how much you earn. This might give you some idea - Spanish Tax Rates 2012 Financial Advisers in Spain

Out of interest is there a secific clause exempting offshore workers from paying UK tax because I'm not sure how just being out of the country for more than 183 days covers it. You usually have to satisfy more conditions than just that i.e.time in the UK must not exceed 91 days per year over a four year period.

HM Revenue & Customs: Non-residents: frequently asked questions


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## markbrin1984 (Feb 5, 2013)

I work offshore in Dubai on a construction vessel, and we have a discharge book which gets stamped by the vessels captain, and at the end of each tax year we fill in a return and if we have 186 days out of the uk and past the uk 12 miles coastal limit we can claim back all tax that as been paid. I along with 1'000s of others have been doing this for years.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

markbrin1984 said:


> I work offshore in Dubai on a construction vessel, and we have a discharge book which gets stamped by the vessels captain, and at the end of each tax year we fill in a return and if we have 186 days out of the uk and past the uk 12 miles coastal limit we can claim back all tax that as been paid. I along with 1'000s of others have been doing this for years.


Yes, I know they have but I just wonder how that would play out if the HMRC had to look at your affairs again, if you complicate matters by moving to Spain? The rules do also state that you have to be in the UK for no more than 90 days per yr over 4 yrs. 

There's a bit in those HMRC rules somehere that states you are not free to decide yourself which country you pay tax in, it will be decided for you. In that case, I would think it would be in Spain you'd have to pay, because that's where your centre of interest i.e. your family, etc would be.

If you are resident in Spain,, you do have to complete a tax return for worldwide income.

The 250e you mentioned earlier would be the equivalent of N.I. contributions.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

markbrin1984 said:


> Ok so everyone who is self employed in Spain pays a big chunk of tax.?
> I will still have a property in the uk when we leave for Spain so I will probably get round it that way


no - that makes no difference

the only way to not pay income tax in Spain is for your family to not move here


the 250€ is the equivalent of NI - you pay income tax on top of that


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## markbrin1984 (Feb 5, 2013)

Ok I understand that you pay income tax, but my point is, been self employed. Not owning my own business, when I fill in a tax return can I claim back expense's, fuel, etc. 
Surely you must be able to! Other wise why wod they have a self emotes system.


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## markbrin1984 (Feb 5, 2013)

Quotes by a fellow expat..?


After many hours speaking to different tax people. Finally came up with the answers. just a note for everyone else in the same position as myself. Basically if you are out the country Spain for the ecommended 183 days a year and you dont break the half day rule your salary will be tax free. (as we are seafarers) You will need to complete a spanish tax form t declare tha you are working out the country and have proof eg discharge book etc. If you are working and geting paid through a UK company you may be liable to get taxed then you would need to claim this back at end of tax year on the same basis. although mot UK companies pay you through channel islands so thats mainly covered aswell. The majority of EU contries have the same SED rule as the UK.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

markbrin1984 said:


> Quotes by a fellow expat..?
> 
> After many hours speaking to different tax people. Finally came up with the answers. just a note for everyone else in the same position as myself. Basically if you are out the country Spain for the ecommended 183 days a year and you dont break the half day rule your salary will be tax free. (as we are seafarers) You will need to complete a spanish tax form t declare tha you are working out the country and have proof eg discharge book etc. If you are working and geting paid through a UK company you may be liable to get taxed then you would need to claim this back at end of tax year on the same basis. although mot UK companies pay you through channel islands so thats mainly covered aswell. The majority of EU contries have the same SED rule as the UK.


I really think you need to seek professional advice. Whilst this may be right for a single person, because essentially you're not a tax resident of Spain, because you don't spend more than 183 days here. However, if your family are living here ( which I think they may be, based on other posts), then the 183 day rule doesn't apply.


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## markbrin1984 (Feb 5, 2013)

So even if my wife works I have to pay tax for her when I'm not in the country for more than 183 days


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

markbrin1984 said:


> So even if my wife works I have to pay tax for her when I'm not in the country for more than 183 days


As said, get professional advice from a tax gestor. Different things for different circumstances


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

markbrin1984 said:


> So even if my wife works I have to pay tax for her when I'm not in the country for more than 183 days


No, even if she didn't work but just lived here it would be regarded as your 'centre of family life' & you would be liable to pay tax.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

markbrin1984 said:


> So even if my wife works I have to pay tax for her when I'm not in the country for more than 183 days


You're not paying tax for her - you have to pay tax on YOUR income because your family resides in Spain (and they presumably benefit from your income somehow).


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