# Need your help! ACS assessment without Bachelor degree



## AnthonyCooper (May 23, 2013)

Dear expats,

Need your help/suggestion!

I'm struggling whether I shall submit my ACS application, for I'm not sure if my experience and qualification fulfill ACS's "Summary of Criteria" (not able to copy the link here but it can be found on ACS website).

Below is my background:
I studied Computer Science in a top 20 university in China. Unfortunately, I failed in a couple of important subjects and wasn't awarded Bachelor degree  (I have my graduation certification though which proves that I have completed 4-year study). I'm not sure what it is like in your countries, but basically, it will be considered as a Diploma only in China if I completed 4-year study and lost my degree.

After that, I studied abroad in a low ranking university in UK (around 30 to 40 ranking within UK) and got my Master degree (also in IT related major) with DISTINCTION. I know you may doubt how I can get Master degree without a Bachelor degree. But that is the case. However, this Master degree is NOT accredited in UK.

Then I shifted back China and worked in an IT consulting company for 3 years and 10 months. 

Now here is my question: With what is written in the "Summary of Criteria",

I need 2 years' work experience in case I have my Bachelor or Master degree with ICT Major.
Or
I need 5 years' work experience in case I have only Diploma with ICT Major.

I think it's all depending on whether ACS recognise my Master degree. If they do recognise it, my nearly 4 years' work experience certainly fulfills the requirement. Otherwise, my work experience is one year less than the 5-year criteria. 

Has anyone here had similar experience or at least you have heard cases like my one? Really appreciate if you can provide me with any suggestion! Looking forward to hearing from you guys! Thanks!

Best Regards,
Anthony


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi Anthony, 

ACS will not accept education without a formal degree. If you fulfilled all criteria to get the official degree you would have a chance. To quote from the ACS Skills Assessment Guidelines: 



> *Qualification Completed but Graduate Certificate not awarded*
> In cases where the degree, diploma or certificate has not been awarded, you are required to provide an official academic transcript which clearly states the date you met all of the course requirements and eligible to be awarded the qualification.


Do you have any certificate from the university that you were formally awarded a *diploma*? If ACS recognizes your diploma with a major in ICT, you'll need 5 years of work experience, mind. 

One more thing: If you want to claim education points for your master, you will run into a problem. To quote from the 189 SkillSelect page - section on *Points*, subsection on *Educational Qualification*: 



> To receive points for a Masters degree, you must also have a Bachelor degree, or the Masters degree must be considered as at least comparable to Bachelor level at Australian standards.


Sorry I could not give a more encouraging opinion, 
Monika


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## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

Hi Anthony
Not sure if the certification that you had got is Certificate of Completion结业证书 or Certificate of Graduation毕业证书? If it is the latter one then ACS might accept it as ICT major Graduate Diploma as mentioned in Summary of Ceriteria..Besides that, ACS might accept your master degree as AQF qualification if they recognize it.

According to the new ACS guideline, they will mention in the result letter after the date which is 2 years from your working starting date as the starter of 'skilled employment' and relevant to ANZCODE.

DIAC consider employment as skilled only after relevant education as per ANZCO guidelines. Hence they will count your experience for points only after your master degree.

However, as mentioned by Monika, you might have issues in claiming points for Education Background. Furthermore, DIAC need recognize your master degree then they possible consider all 4 years working experiences. IF they dont, then you need at least five years of relevant experience may substitute for the formal qualification.


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## AnthonyCooper (May 23, 2013)

Thanks for your reply espresso!


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## AnthonyCooper (May 23, 2013)

Hi Harish,

Thanks for your reply as well! It's really helpful!



Harish2013 said:


> Not sure if the certification that you had got is Certificate of Completion结业证书 or Certificate of Graduation毕业证书? If it is the latter one then ACS might accept it as ICT major Graduate Diploma as mentioned in Summary of Ceriteria..Besides that, ACS might accept your master degree as AQF qualification if they recognize it.


I have Certificate of Graduation (BTW, you can speak Chinese? Amazing!).



Harish2013 said:


> According to the new ACS guideline, they will mention in the result letter after the date which is 2 years from your working starting date as the starter of 'skilled employment' and relevant to ANZCODE.


As to the ANZCODE, my understanding is: if ACS recognizes my Master degree, then it would be like what you stated "2 years from your working starting date as the starter of 'skilled employment'". Otherwise, if ACS recognizes only my Diploma, this would be 5 years being deducted from my whole working experience. And I will end up with 0 experience on their result letter??!!

Is my understanding correct?



Harish2013 said:


> DIAC consider employment as skilled only after relevant education as per ANZCO guidelines. Hence they will count your experience for points only after your master degree.


This is fine because all my working experience is after my Master degree.



Harish2013 said:


> However, as mentioned by Monika, you might have issues in claiming points for Education Background.


May I ask why? Even if my Master degree isn't recognized, I have at least my Certificate of Graduation which in turn should be considered as Diploma, isn't it? I can then claim 10 points for Education. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks in advance for your further advice!

Anthony


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi Anthony, 

*Variant A:* 
If you are lucky ACS will recognize your master degree as *equivalent to a bachelor degree*. This may seem like a down-grade but in fact it is better. DIAC will not give you points for a master degree if you don't have a bachelor degree as well (see my last post). And you get the same amount of points for bachelor and master anyway. ACS will *deduct 2 years of work experience* post-degree, so you would have worked at a "skilled" level (according to ACS) for 1year and 10 months. 

Note that there is currently a debate whether you can claim your full work experience post-degree (all 3yrs, 10 mths) or whether DIAC will follow the ACS definition of skilled. They changed that recently and nobody with a new assessment letter has been through the entire visa process yet. But you will get *either 0 or 5 points*. See also: http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...acs-new-rules-assessment-work-experience.html

*Variant B: *
If your Certificate of Graduation is accepted as equivalent to an Australian (Advanced) *Diploma* with a major in ICT, then you need *at least 5 years of relevant work experience* post-degree for positive assessment. In that case you need to work at least another year plus two months before you can get positive assessment . 

*Considerations: *
How long was your master program? 1 year, 2 years, 3 years? Did they recognize your previous education? Do you have a letter that confirms that? If the program was longer and if you had to pass "bridge" modules to make up for the lack of a formal bachelor degree you chances rise that ACS will accept the master as equivalent to a bachelor degree. Your chances are not that great but if you don't mind investing the money, you could just submit everything for assessment to ACS and wait for their opinion. 

All the best, 
Monika


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## AnthonyCooper (May 23, 2013)

Hi Monika,



espresso said:


> ACS will *deduct 2 years of work experience* post-degree, so you would have worked at a "skilled" level (according to ACS) for 1year and 10 months.


Only 2 years will be deducted regardless the qualification?
My understanding is: For Bachelor or Master degree, 2 years will be deducted. For diploma, 5 years will be deducted. It could very much be wrong. Please correct me in that case.




espresso said:


> Note that there is currently a debate whether you can claim your full work experience post-degree (all 3yrs, 10 mths) or whether DIAC will follow the ACS definition of skilled. They changed that recently and nobody with a new assessment letter has been through the entire visa process yet. But you will get *either 0 or 5 points*


Is it possible to have 0 point for work experience and get the visa (if the overall points are 60 or above)?
I suppose 189/190 is PR visa for skilled workers. Does DIAC accept such applicants who have very less work experience if not entirely zero experience?



espresso said:


> How long was your master program? 1 year, 2 years, 3 years? Did they recognize your previous education? Do you have a letter that confirms that? If the program was longer and if you had to pass "bridge" modules to make up for the lack of a formal bachelor degree you chances rise that ACS will accept the master as equivalent to a bachelor degree. Your chances are not that great but if you don't mind investing the money, you could just submit everything for assessment to ACS and wait for their opinion.


It's an 1 year 2 months program with a dissertation. When I enrolled, they accepted students with no Bachelor degree. That's why I have my Master without Bachelor degree. Not sure what is the situation now.

Neither do I see a good chance to get the positive feedback from ACS. But I will probably have a try. Anyway thanks for your analysis and advice. I will post my assessment result here. Hope it will help people having same background like me.


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi Anthony, 


> Only 2 years will be deducted regardless the qualification?


No, only if your master degree is recognized as equivalent to a bachelor degree two years will be enough. You need five years with a diploma. See my previous post. You understood it correctly . 



> Does DIAC accept such applicants who have very less work experience if not entirely zero experience?


Sure, you only need to meet the pass mark of 60 points. 



> It's an 1 year 2 months program with a dissertation.


That's probably too short for positive assessment, sorry . You could try to get in via a temporary 457 visa (if you can find a company sponsor) and get some Australian work experience. In two yours your employer _can_ (but does not have to) sponsor you for PR (for example via the ENS visa). In two years you will also have enough work experience to get positive assessment with a diploma + 5 years of work experience. And you will get additional points for Australian work experience. So you _may_ qualify for a PR in your own right. Visa rules change all the time, though, so you should think about what you plan to do if you have to return home. 

All the best, 
Monika


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## jack777 (Sep 26, 2013)

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but a recent thread lead me to be concerned with my Masters degree.

My degree is a 5 year integrated MSc(IT) and it qualified for AQF Masters by ACS. Could i consider this for 15 points or could the CO just give 10 points since I don't have a bachelors degree?


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## thebatman123 (May 16, 2018)

*ACS skill migration*

I have completed my Bsc with Electronics in 2009 and i have completed MCA in 2012. I had total 5 years and 8 months experience when i applied for my ACS migration.My Bachelor degree is not relevant to the current work i am doing but my masters degree is relevant to my work.

Do you think will be impact on my acs skill migration points?How many years of experience i can lose?


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