# Guadalajara still pleasant?



## RY4 (Dec 14, 2012)

Hello all,

Joined the forum in the hope that one or two of you may be kind enough to give me some insights into the expat life in Guadalajara.

My Mexican partner is really desperate to move back to Mexico after having lived with me in Europe for almost 10 years (she has been "desperate" to move back for most of that 10 years but is now "really desperate").

I have been to Mexico many times and love much of the country including Guadalajara. To be honest my preferred destination would be somewhere like Cancun or PV - but they are no good career wise for my partner (IT programmer). And her family are there so Guad is the best choice for her.

I have a small internet based job that I can bring with me that should provide enough to live on. So not really too worried about money side of things really just the isolation and safety issues that are concerning me and holding me back. 

My Spanish is quite poor - I can get around but would probably find it difficult to make any Spanish speaking mates for a while. Is there much of an expat English speaking community in Guad? I'm not thinking that I would like to spend all my time with English speakers or anything but would be great to know if there was an expat group around or something? I don't even mind if its just made up of just Americans or Canadians 

Also, many of my partners friends are telling her that Guadalajara is not very safe at night anymore and they hardly ever go out after dark. I've read some of the horror stories but in the past I have always felt pretty safe wandering around in the centre at night (worst issue I ever came across was a policeman claiming that I had to pay a "fine" because I was drunk (I told him he was out of luck because I'd spent all my money on beer! We had a friendly chat and he drove off!)). That was over 10 years ago though. Do the expats living in Guadalajara still find it OK to wander around at night or have things really taken a turn for the worse out there?

Any help would be much appreciated. I think its really easy to get the wrong impression by listening to one group of people and just reading around the news.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

RY4 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Joined the forum in the hope that one or two of you may be kind enough to give me some insights into the expat life in Guadalajara.
> 
> ...


I have lived in Gdl for 5 years. I often walk home alone from movies late at night. I live in an old Mexican neighborhood in Centro about a kilometer from the Cathedral and center of the city. I see lots of single women walking alone late at night as well (not "working" women, just people on their way home). I conclude from this that the locals must feel it is safe as well. There are neighborhoods in Gdl where I would be a little more careful at night, but really there is no place that would scare me as much at night as some of the neighborhoods in big cities in the US.

There is a group of ex-pats, called the American Society of Jalisco. I don't ever go to their events, but if you are interested in meeting other English speakers, it is a source.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

RY4 said:


> Hello allMy Mexican partner is really desperate to move back to Mexico after having lived with me in Europe for almost 10 years (she has been "desperate" to move back for most of that 10 years but is now "really desperate").


GLD's changed a lot in a decade.



> I have a small internet based job that I can bring with me that should provide enough to live on. So not really too worried about money side of things really just the isolation and safety issues that are concerning me and holding me back.


The new Mexican immigration regulations may be too stsringent for you to qualify to receive a visa which will allow you to live in Mexico. The first thing you should be doing is researching that issue. There's a discussion elsehwere on this forum about this, and even more, and better, information on other Mexican/Expat specific webforums.



> My Spanish is quite poor - I can get around but would probably find it difficult to make any Spanish speaking mates for a while. Is there much of an expat English speaking community in Guad? I'm not thinking that I would like to spend all my time with English speakers or anything but would be great to know if there was an expat group around or something? I don't even mind if its just made up of just Americans or Canadians


You'll do fine and you'll have the benefit of your significant other, her family and people you meet. Lots of opportunities to speak English in the area, nearby, if you get the itch to do so.



> Also, many of my partners friends are telling her that Guadalajara is not very safe at night anymore and they hardly ever go out after dark. I've read some of the horror stories but in the past I have always felt pretty safe wandering around in the centre at night (worst issue I ever came across was a policeman claiming that I had to pay a "fine" because I was drunk (I told him he was out of luck because I'd spent all my money on beer! We had a friendly chat and he drove off!)). That was over 10 years ago though. Do the expats living in Guadalajara still find it OK to wander around at night or have things really taken a turn for the worse out there?


There's a war. There's terrorism. But when you look closely at these issues and how they impact GDL, it's relatively minimal for most people. There are parts of the area, the metropolitan area, and state, where risks are higher. Zapopan probably gets more negative press for things happening there than other parts of the GDL metro area. The situation can change overnight, though. You'll be fortunate to have your significant other's family there and if I were in your shoes I'd listen to their cautions and act accordingly.

But, really ... study the new immigration regs because they might present a hurdle you can't overcome.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

Agree with Longford that a minimal Internet job may not meet the new $1900us a month requirements for a resident visa. You'll also have to apply for that Visa in a Mexican consulate in your home country as you can no longer upgrade from a Tourist in Mexico


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## RY4 (Dec 14, 2012)

Thanks all for the helpful comments. 

Yes, I've checked the new immigration rules and there are no problems there. There are a couple of categories that I would likely be able to apply for. Besides I would need to travel to the states and to Europe every few months so could probably get by with a tourist visa for a while.

Do you know if they get funny about re-issuing tourist visas? I'd probably leave for a week at a time and then try to re-enter.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

No ... you just turn one in when you leave and get another on the return


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

sparks said:


> Agree with Longford that a minimal Internet job may not meet the new $1900us a month requirements for a resident visa. You'll also have to apply for that Visa in a Mexican consulate in your home country as you can no longer upgrade from a Tourist in Mexico


Remember it is an *EITHER/OR* requirement, as I've been told.
*EITHER* a minimum of $US 1900/month (although for a retiree like me I was told $US 2500/month total pension incl Social Security) *OR* investment assets for the last 12 months of $US190,000.

Either way it is steep and I can only tell you what I was told as a retiree.

(My wife - needs to have *EITHER* $US 550/month pension income *OR *investment assets for the last 6 months of $US 1,600 and a marriage certificate to me.)

Just had this all verified for me by the Mexican Consulate in Washington DC.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

FHBOY said:


> Remember it is an *EITHER/OR* requirement, as I've been told.
> *EITHER* a minimum of $US 1900/month (although for a retiree like me I was told $US 2500/month total pension incl Social Security) *OR* investment assets for the last 12 months of $US190,000.


I can't argue with what they tell you .... but they are wrong. It is clearly stated that Residente Temporal is around $1900 and Residente Permanente is around $2500. It has nothing to do with the fact you are retired. If they are offering a permanent visa and you qualify .... grab it. Much easier in the long run

The percentage of people moving here with $200k in the bank is probably pretty small


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

sparks said:


> … The percentage of people moving here with $200k in the bank is probably pretty small


Really. I would guess that quite a few people might have sold a house in the US with that much equity especially if they are of retirement age.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

RY4 said:


> Thanks all for the helpful comments.
> 
> Yes, I've checked the new immigration rules and there are no problems there. There are a couple of categories that I would likely be able to apply for. Besides I would need to travel to the states and to Europe every few months so could probably get by with a tourist visa for a while.
> 
> Do you know if they get funny about re-issuing tourist visas? I'd probably leave for a week at a time and then try to re-enter.


If you're going to live in Mexico, than doing so on a tourist card makes you an illegal alien. Respect the country, its people and its laws .... or, IMO, look elsewhere to live.

The peso equivalent of US$1,900 must be verified as new incoming money for a certain amount of months. If you can verify that income than apply for the proper visa before you depart for Mexico.

Best wishes for a successful, and legal move.


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## kazslo (Jun 7, 2010)

Longford said:


> If you're going to live in Mexico, than doing so on a tourist card makes you an illegal alien. Respect the country, its people and its laws .... or, IMO, look elsewhere to live.



Longford forgot the disclaimer that what he said is only his opinion and not supported by law or practice. If you overstay your tourist card, you are illegal. If you are in the country during the period that your tourist card authorizes, you are legal.

If you are going to be constantly in and out, traveling to other countries, a tourist visa might not be such a bad plan.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

kazslo said:


> Longford forgot the disclaimer that what he said is only his opinion and not supported by law or practice. If you overstay your tourist card, you are illegal. If you are in the country during the period that your tourist card authorizes, you are legal.
> 
> If you are going to be constantly in and out, traveling to other countries, a tourist visa might not be such a bad plan.


Actually, Longford included "IMO", which means "In My Opinion", so he did include that disclaimer.

Longford has made it clear several times how he/she interprets the intended use of a tourist visa. Others have expressed other opinions. What matters is the interpretation of the officer for Instituto Nacional de Migración (INM) that you meet when you enter the country.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

Longford said:


> If you're going to live in Mexico, than doing so on a tourist card makes you an illegal alien. Respect the country, its people and its laws .... or, IMO, look elsewhere to live.


I've never heard that there is a limit to the number of times in a year you can enter Mexico using a tourist card. Seems to me that is an individual choice and not illegal. If immigration gets tired of seeing their face I'm sure they'll let them know


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Longford said:


> If you're going to live in Mexico, than doing so on a tourist card makes you an illegal alien. …


The problem I have with this statement is one of definition. I met a couple from Canada in Mazatlan a couple of weeks ago. They come to Mexico for two weeks twice a year. Clearly they are tourists. I assume Mexico has no problems with tourists who visit often. Tourist dollars are a big source of income for Mexico and they run advertising campaigns encouraging tourists. Suppose someone comes for a month or two twice a year. Are they still a tourist? Or what if they come for 6 months twice a year? At what point do they stop being eligible for a tourist permit. From the point of view of Mexico, one tourist dollar would seem to be as good as another. As long as you leave the country before your tourist permit expires, you are obeying the law and Mexico has the option to decide if they want you back again. I don't see the problem. 

I had a similar situation occur in the other direction. I had a student from England working with me in the US. He came in on a tourist permit. The US would not allow him to convert to a student visa, but they were perfectly happy for him to make a trip to the Mexican or Canadian border, get a new tourist permit and continue in the US. This was quite a few years ago. Things may have changed.


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## RY4 (Dec 14, 2012)

Thanks all for your comments.

Longford, I don't think that I would be breaking any laws by entering the country on a Visitante Visa. This visa also covers "business visitors" provided that you are not actually taking money from the Mexican economy - which I wouldn't be as all my money would come from the EU.

Can you explain your interpretation of how you think I would be breaking the law? It would be good to know this as if you think there is a clear case of me breaking the law then immigration may also have the same idea. Any help would be much appreciated.


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## Ken Wood (Oct 22, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> I had a similar situation occur in the other direction. I had a student from England working with me in the US. He came in on a tourist permit. The US would not allow him to convert to a student visa, but they were perfectly happy for him to make a trip to the Mexican or Canadian border, get a new tourist permit and continue in the US. This was quite a few years ago. Things may have changed.


We had a similar experience to the one TG mentions here, but I can't use the term "perfectly happy" to describe the disposition of the US agent. We were in Anchorage and my wife was already a US citizen. Her daughter came for an Alaskan visit, and had such a good time that they, she and my wife, did a short Mexican trip for the purpose of renewing the daughter's tourist permit. On their return through LAX, the immigration officer pulled the daughter aside, they interviewed her for a half hour or so, made sure she understood the purpose and the limitations of a visitor's permit, then let her proceed to Anchorage. I suspect that, to a great extent, it might be, like we have said here many times, that the person behind the desk has a great deal of latitude in such situations, whether one is going north or south.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

sparks said:


> The percentage of people moving here with $200k in the bank is probably pretty small


Many of the old timers (from the USA) who'd probably considered a retirement move to Mexico aren't likely to have monthly Social Security deposits which will get them to the US$1,900 or US$2,500 monthly (or whatever similar) threshold to qualify for a residency visa. And though I'm uncertain what the combined amount will be for two persons living together, a married/partnered couple, the threshold for them both makes it tough for many to comply as well.

I suppose there is no database of this sort of information, or why there would be one maintained in Mexico, but I believe there are many people who've moved to Mexico who worked for an extended period of time and who have retirement accounts and/or investment accounts, 401K, IRA, etc., the combined balances of which exceed US$200,000. Many more of the 'baby boomers' will meet the requirements, IMO.

Though nobody's done a demographic survey of the expats in Mexico that I'm aware of (not that doing so would be realistsic or easy to accomplish), I further believe that the expats already in-country who are most concerned and/or vocal about the new income thresholds represent a small minority of the group as a whole. Many of that group are in Mexico solely because of what appear to have been lax immigration requirements and enforcement - not because they have an affinity for Mexico, Mexicans and the culture and/or way of life. I believe they've probably overestimated, exaggerated their value or contribution to the nation as a whole.

I suppose that if I didn't now or think I wouldn't in the future meet these new requirements I'd offer a different viewpoint. Don't know about that. I can only comment on the here and now.


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

If an individual believes that s/he can meet the threshold, then they won't complain on their own behalf, of course.

But the threshold is still low enough that it would be very difficult, especially if one is single, to live on that in the US.

For starters, a link I provided in another thread yesterday, from the Medicare administrators, show that the average cost for premiums for Medicare parts A, B, C and D is going to be in the neighborhood of $500/month. That takes those just at threshold down to $1400 for everything else.

If you own a home, your utilities in the US are going, most likely to be about $150 or more a month--if you're lucky. Add at least $60/person/week for food, so for a single person that's another $240+.

Very few people, even retirees, own their homes outright, so there will be either house payments or rent. And if you do own outright, there's property taxes. MN has fairly low taxes, and we still pay about $430/month for property taxes. Lets say, conservatively, $800/month for rent or a house payment. That leaves a negative amount for medication, copays for doctors, any recreation at all. Forget about travel or buying new clothes, as well.

Think about what that $1900/month will buy in MX, even the most expensive areas.

Toss in, for many parts of the country, pleasant year round weather, lovely scenery and wherever you go, the opportunity to meet new people from a new culture, and keep yourself emotionally and intellectually alive. Pretty sweet!


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