# La Liga closing in on its finals...



## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

I think it's justified enough to have a La Liga topic here. I notice we got enough football fans here but no topic to discuss the best league in the world?  (sorry England but apart from Rooney and Torres all world class players are playing in the Spanish league nowadays)



So after the Clasico of last week (which was quite historical: Pep Guardiola is the first Barca coach to win 4 Clasico's in a row, which is impressive especially since Real had won all previous home games) Barça is leading with 3 points ahead of the arch rivals.

A look at the program remaining show us that Barcelona have a rather easy home schedule but a terribly tough away schedule left:
- home the only true challenge should be tonight vs Deportivo. The other 3 remaining home games are against the bottom 3 Xerez, Tenerife and Valladolid which in theory should be 3 easy games for Barça.
- the away program however... First there is the city derby with Espanyol (who may not have anything left to play for but they will not want to lose their first city derby in their new stadium!) and then there are two tough away games to Villarreal and Sevilla who both struggle for European spots.


Real Madrid's program looks slightly easier although an away game at Mallorca who have an impressive home record is a tough nut to crack.


One other thing to keep in mind is the number of games. Barça has an average of 2 games a week coming up thanks to 2 mid-week La Liga games + 2 midweek European duties in the Champions League semi-finals. Real has the slight advantage they can focus only on the Liga.


On the other hand, the pressure on Real must be incredible. They spent an amazing sum of money on new signings but risk to be left without any trophy in the end. To add to the nightmare their arch rivals from Barcelona may very well win the Champions League right at the Bernabeu soil, while city rivals Atletico Madrid are in the running for the Europa League and Copa del Rey trophies. Imagine the humiliation if Real would see their two worst rivals take the trophies after spending all that money on Benzema, Ronaldo, Kaka, etc


Valencia is more or less sure of 3rd place and Champions League slot.


For the 4th and last CL ticket it seems to be a tough race between Mallorca, Sevilla and very likely Villarreal and Athletic Bilbao are also still believing in their chances.

Personally Mallorca is my favourite Spanish club (in the title race I prefer Barça over Madrid but Mallorca are my favourites) and while I strongly believe they'll get at least a Europa League ticket it's waiting if UEFA will grant them a license for Europe given the current financial situation in Real Mallorca. Athletic Bilbao has apparently already indicated they consider going to court if Mallorca would get the UEFA license and take away the European slot. 


At bottom Xerez look doomed, Tenerife and Valladolid have revived their chances of survival somewhat with their wins last weekend.


So place your bets on the La Liga :clap2:


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Not sure why the press all over the world talks about Barcelona being unlucky in the derby, I saw the entire game and thought Espanyol deserved the win to be honest. Barca had more posession the second half but Kameni didn't have any tricky balls to stop, while Espanyol were very unlucky not to score just before half time. It was remarkable that, while most teams choose to defend against Barca, Espanyol was really trying to attack. I guess this was their "match of the year", the city derby for the first time in the new stadium...

Real closing in to 1 point now but still I don't see Barça give this out of hands. They do have a tricky away calendar (including Villarreal coming up next I believe) but then their remaining home games (bottom three teams visiting Camp Nou) should be an easy one.

Mallorca should be sure of European football now (= top 6 finish) so I'm very happy, although having 4th spot so close before the end it'd be disappointing to miss the Champions League slot and play "only" Europa League. Especially because Mallorca is in need of money it'd be great to qualify for the CL now. The home game against Real is what I fear most, but I do think the European ticket (be it CL or Europa League) should be in the pocket now. Nice win against Osasuna yesterday


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## El Tonto (Mar 13, 2010)

SteveHall said:


> A draw was a fair result I thought and with that Barcelona's bubble is now burst. 1000 miles by coach this week gives them the excuse they need to implode and hand the title back to its rightful owners. Real Madrid win all their remaining matches to be crowned worthy champions. End of.


Just returned from Madrid after attending Real Madrid game on Sunday. Real Madrid were in total control from the beginning and defended high up the pitch. David Villa was ineffective because they could not get the ball to him. Valencia were very physical which made it a stop/ start game and prevented a passing game. All in all it was a good game Real deserved the win. Don't rule out Real Madrid just yet.


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## El Tonto (Mar 13, 2010)

SteveHall said:


> ¡¡Hala Madrid¡¡


I second that. What will the effect on Barcelona's defeat have on La Liga race now!!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

oh good (NOT), a football thread! didnt realise form the title. I'll not come in here again lol!!!

Jo xxx


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> Why, Jojo? We would value your input into the likely destination of the title and on Barcelona's tactics to overcome a two goal deficit.


Going to be an interesting second leg.
Barca maybe had a bit of a rough deal both from the ref and the travelling,but have to give credit to Inter and especially THE SPECIAL ONE who had obviously figured out Barca's weakness from the start.
The fact that Inter were caught offside 5 times before they even scored should have given Barca a clue what they were up to, and were indeed eventually caught out repeatedly with through balls into the empty space behind their hi-line.

As for the Barca /Real tussle,difficult one to call now, with so much pressure on Barca,but without doubt the two classicos clearly demonstrated which side was best of the two by far.
Recent classicos must have been quite an embarrasment for Real,especially in view of the cash they have dished out.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

I didn't clearly see if the third Inter goal was offside or not, but clearly Milito had a great scoring opportunity already in the first half where an offside call was made by the ref whereas it clearly wasn't offside. Barca are now complaining about the ref but I didn't feel that the ref made the difference. 

Noticed how Guardiola brought in extra defensive power near the end while Mourinho put extra attacking force in with Ballotelli? Does that show some sign of Guardiola being afraid of a 4th goal?  Usually Barca is the team that always looks for scoring more goals rather than focussing on preventing a goal from the other side. Quite an ironical twist if you remember Guardiola saying in a local Catalan paper that he gave his team three tasks in the Classico: "attack, attack, attack".

They have the excuse of a coach drive to Italy which I can imagine must be uncomfortable. And I guess they can also complain about a rather full calendar with plenty of mid-week games and an average of 2 games a week in the end of the season. However, a self-proclaimed world class team should be able to overcome that and not use excuses. It'll be interesting to see how Barça deals with that pressure. They now got a relatively easy home game to regain some confidence prior to the clash with Inter.

They can still win the CL and Liga (and then Supercopa, European Super Cup etc) and almost repeat the glory of last year. But they can also lose the Liga and CL and end up with no trophy at all this year ... The pressure must be quite intense, but again a self-proclaimed best of the world team (scarves with that line are sold here in tourist shops ) should be able to cope with such situations.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Not to take anything away from Inter's performance and smart tactics,but viewing the game as a whole,probably a draw would have been a fairer result.
Their were numerous desperate scrambles in the Inter goalmouth,the third goal was offside and Barca clearly should have had a penalty when Danny was fouled from behind only to get a yellow card.
While it is common practise to dive in the box,it is not common practise to do so when in sight of goal, with the ball under control and the defender left behind.
The ref was either very naive or very biased and the replay clearly showed contact.
I thought the yellows dished out to Barca were somewhat petty too, considering quite a few naughty ones from Inter were overlooked.
Some refs are obvious homers,some are pretty fair,luck of the draw I suppose.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

I don't think he should have started with Ibrahimovic. I thought the 3rd was offside. Did anyone else notice , at the begining the camera man was showing the crowd, managers ,players heads when play was going on ? ( On La 1 , not sky ) It was nearly as bad as watching a game from Germany !


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

gus-lopez said:


> I don't think he should have started with Ibrahimovic. I thought the 3rd was offside. Did anyone else notice , at the begining the camera man was showing the crowd, managers ,players heads when play was going on ? ( On La 1 , not sky ) It was nearly as bad as watching a game from Germany !


Just watched a game from Germany and must admit the camera work was not too clever.
Bayern1,Lyon 0,courtesy of a strange Robbins goal with the keeper unsighted or caught out by a deflection.
Ribery rightly sent of for a vicious foul, and a Lyon player also,...but he was a bit unfortunate.
Should be an interesting second leg in France.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Yes, unfortunately I watched it too ! You were hard pushed to know in the first half that Lyon had a man advantage.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Actually Lloris (the Lyon goalie) is not to blame for that goal. Look at the repeated version of the goal with zoom-in camera and you can clearly see the ball changes direction ; I wouldn't call it a deflection though because the Bayern player deliberately touched the ball to make it change direction. It was quite a good goal and definitely very tricky for a goalie to stop that. Lloris is one of Europe's better goalies IMO, no blame on him for that goal.

I wonder if the Van Gaal-Robben incident (Robben having an argument with the coach when being replaced) will have any consequences, although as stubborn as he may be, I just can't see Van Gaal put Robben on the bench in his current form.

Lyon played disappointing IMO, especially compared to their previous games. For example their second half in the Bernabeu was very good. In Muninch they were nowhere.




This weekend we got Barcelona-Xerez and right after that Zaragoza-Real. In theory this should be a walk in the park for Barça and a good chance to win with a high score to boost their confidence ahead of the European game mid-week. Chances that Barça drops points against the bottom-placed team is close to 0% so the pressure will be on Real to close the gap back to 1 point. Winning in Zaragoza? In theory I'd say yes, although it may be somewhat tricky.

Hope to catch the Mallorca game on TV somewhere although often the local pubs where I watch football only broadcast Barça, Real, Valencia, Sevilla and Atletico Madrid. Even Espanyol (which is a local team as much as Barça is) is rarely live on TV in the pubs, let alone any other team not traditionally amongst the top. Time to found a Real Mallorca Penya here in Catalunya!


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

No comments after the Barca-Inter game? 

Well, what to say... They didn't break any rules, what they did was very legal in football terms, but it was a pain for the eyes to see Inter play. This was catenaccio in an extreme extent. I think Inter crossed the half line only a few times the second half and Victor Valdes was standing in the mid circle (!) for part of the second half. Inter just put 9 players in front of their own goal, Messi was constantly surrounded by several Italians which made it hardly possible to move, and if Inter had the ball they just kicked it as far as possible away from the goal while returning backwards to stand in front of their own goal waiting for the next Barca attack. I mean, this was a human wall.

Fair enough, the red card was a bit harsh, and I guess you cannot blame Mourinho for using a tactic that works. I however very much wonder how Inter will possibly beat Bayern in the final if they play like this... In Barcelona they took a lucky 3-1 lead and could afford to just defend. Against Bayern, they'll have to leave their own penalty area somehow ...



As for the Liga: Madrid following well on Barca but this wednesday my prefered Real Mallorca will help the Blaugrana a bit and meanwhile secure its own 4th spot in the Liga.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Just saying the city may be on fire tonight after Barca brings home the well-deserved title from Sevilla  A win in Sevilla and Real dropping points to Athletic Bilbao and the trophy's in the pocket. 

(and the less confident side of me: even a draw in Sevilla could be insufficient if Real wins its last game. Wouldn't it be injustice to a huge extent to get 97 points in a season, lose just one game, and still not win La Liga?? Fingers crossed for Barca but Sevilla is about the toughest away game possible at such a crucial moment)

I finally found a penya for Real Mallorca here and while I do wish Barca well, my prefered team has a lot at stake as well (4th place and CL entry) so I will watch Depor-Mallorca tonight with the other Mallorca fans while keeping the radio close to stay updated about what's happening in Sevilla. Fingers crossed for a Barca win in Sevilla and a Mallorca win in La Coruña (which would then make it 4th place ahead of Sevilla again) and that's double celebration!


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

gerrit said:


> Just saying the city may be on fire tonight after Barca brings home the well-deserved title from Sevilla  A win in Sevilla and Real dropping points to Athletic Bilbao and the trophy's in the pocket.
> 
> (and the less confident side of me: even a draw in Sevilla could be insufficient if Real wins its last game. Wouldn't it be injustice to a huge extent to get 97 points in a season, lose just one game, and still not win La Liga?? Fingers crossed for Barca but Sevilla is about the toughest away game possible at such a crucial moment)
> 
> I finally found a penya for Real Mallorca here and while I do wish Barca well, my prefered team has a lot at stake as well (4th place and CL entry) so I will watch Depor-Mallorca tonight with the other Mallorca fans while keeping the radio close to stay updated about what's happening in Sevilla. Fingers crossed for a Barca win in Sevilla and a *Mallorca win in La Coruña *(which would then make it 4th place ahead of Sevilla again) and that's double celebration!


Now you and I are gonna have words Gerrit!! :boxing:


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

In exactly 5 minutes I am leaving for the Mallorquista penya for the game. 10 Mallorca fans in front of TV celebrating a win (hopefully) and hoping Barca helps us a hand by leaving Sevilla pointless... VAMOS MALLORCA :clap2:

PS: Deportivo treated our goalie, Dudu Aouate, with no respect at all... But well, their loss, he's in Mallorca now and he's absolutely amazing. One of the most underrated goalkeepers in Europe :clap2:


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Looks like Barca have it in the bag after beating Seville.
Strange game,..they looked in total control at three nil up against ten men yet nearly chucked a wobbler towards the end.
Could well have blown it as Seville had a fair penalty shout late on,..but against that Barca had a stone cold cert turned down in the first half.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Just goes to show that money isn't everything.
Real couldn't even buy a trophy, yet their poor relations across the city have just won the Europa league.
Credit to little Fulham also for reaching the final after beating such as German champions Wolfsburg and the mighty Juventus on a shoestring budget.
I notice that even the multi-talented Barca only have a handful of players that cost serious money.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Yes a bit of a shame that Zamora wasn't 100% but it was a good game, just need old Al Fayed to put in some of the money from the sale of Harrods now ! :lol:


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Credit to Atletico. In the beginning of the season there was panic within the club, crisis and protesting fans dominated sports newspapers. They came back very well and played a good second half of the season both domestically (Copa del Rey final, being the only team to beat Barcelona in the entire Liga season) and in Europe. 

I did hear some people complain that Atletico won the Europa League with hardly having won any games in Europe: via the back door escaping into the Europa League after a very poor Champions League campaign, then a few times qualified for the next stage luckily (eg two draws and qualifying on away goal rule) ... In the end though, they got the cup and surely yesterday they were the better team. I somewhat feel sorry for the Fulham defender though who made ball slightly deflect ; it was like a sort of own goal, which is very unlucky so close to penalty series (slight consolidation may be that the goal has been credited to Forlan in statistics)

Real in all honesty did have a good season, let's not forget 98 points broke the record. They're a bit unlucky that Barca can collect an even more unreal total of 99. It disappoints somewhat to see the likes of Valencia and Sevilla so far behind, hopefully it's a one year exception as few people benefit from two runaway teams every year like it happens in Scotland.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Gutted. Devastated. Disbelief. That was the sentiment in the penya mallorquista yesterday.

Basically Mallorca could have grabbed 4th spot and Champions League football given a win at home versus Espanyol and meanwhile Sevilla had to not win in Almeira. The home win against Espanyol came in very easily so the last 15 minutes we basically paid more attention to what was happening in Andalucia. 2-2 scoreline so Mallorca virtually in the top-4. While we were already singing and dancing out of join, Sevilla scored the 2-3 winner in the last 30 seconds of injury time of the last game of the season  4th place gone for Mallorca, the season literally lasted 30 seconds too long. 30 seconds made the difference between total euphoria and total disbelief. The celebration atmosphere was gone instantly and everyone left home in silence and disbelief. 

May sound strange but knowing this, I wish Mallorca hadn't won against Espanyol, because then we only had ourselves to blame. Now the Champions League was so close, if Almeira had kept the 2-2 for a little 30 seconds longer it was Mallorca and not Sevilla playing the Champions League qualifier. Prior to the season I would have been extraordinary happy with a 5th place and Europa League football, but coming that close to the CL and missing it in this way is just cruel.

*sigh* Congrats to Sevilla I guess 

Hopefully Barcelona can finish it off against Valladolid tonight. Not that it compensates that much for what happened yesterday, but still... at least I'd close the football weekend with seeing people celebrating.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Real fans seem very quiet tonight.

They''ll just have to dig deep in their big fat wallets once more and probably replace the coach as well,....but even then I wouldn't bet on them for next season.

My moneys on Barca again.


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## Guest (May 16, 2010)

WOOHOO! RACING ISN'T GOING TO SEGUNDA! :clap2::clap2::clap2:arty:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

gerrit said:


> Gutted. Devastated. Disbelief. That was the sentiment in the penya mallorquista yesterday.
> 
> Basically Mallorca could have grabbed 4th spot and Champions League football given a win at home versus Espanyol and meanwhile Sevilla had to not win in Almeira. The home win against Espanyol came in very easily so the last 15 minutes we basically paid more attention to what was happening in Andalucia. 2-2 scoreline so Mallorca virtually in the top-4. While we were already singing and dancing out of join, Sevilla scored the 2-3 winner in the last 30 seconds of injury time of the last game of the season  4th place gone for Mallorca, the season literally lasted 30 seconds too long. 30 seconds made the difference between total euphoria and total disbelief. The celebration atmosphere was gone instantly and everyone left home in silence and disbelief.
> 
> ...


Try watching the tennis is my advice.
Rafa won - again!!


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

I think if Real sack Pelligrini the president is out of his mind. Real reached 96 points in a season. That is insanely good. The only issue is that they are in the same league as the only team even better than them. But imagine Real play in any other league with competitors excluding Barca and they'd have been breakaway champions with a 96 points on the tally. To blame Pelligrini would not be right, and by the way their president said he'd take full responsibility, not blame anyone of the staff.


Barca apparently are close to signing Villa, and show interest in Torres as well. With Messi being unmissable, Pedro becoming better every week, and Bojan Krkic being one of the new rising stars ; they already have such a fantastic frontline. If either Villa or Torres comes as well, could this be that Ibrahimovic is gonna leave Barcelona already?


BTW, I went to Plaza Catalunya to catch the atmosphere afterwards. Left after less than half an hour. People went drunk, drug dealers and pick pockets were lurking, ... Not my type of celebrations. Next day I read in the paper that over 100 people got arrested. So guess I did the right thing by heading home after a short while.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

gerrit said:


> I think if Real sack Pelligrini the president is out of his mind. Real reached 96 points in a season. That is insanely good. The only issue is that they are in the same league as the only team even better than them. But imagine Real play in any other league with competitors excluding Barca and they'd have been breakaway champions with a 96 points on the tally. To blame Pelligrini would not be right, and by the way their president said he'd take full responsibility, not blame anyone of the staff.
> 
> 
> Barca apparently are close to signing Villa, and show interest in Torres as well. With Messi being unmissable, Pedro becoming better every week, and Bojan Krkic being one of the new rising stars ; they already have such a fantastic frontline. If either Villa or Torres comes as well, could this be that Ibrahimovic is gonna leave Barcelona already?
> ...


It depends if they have some one better than Pelligrini already lined up.
For instance the Special One,who would virtually guarantee them success.
Although they were close to Barca in the league,they were totally outclassed by them on the pitch.
Barca are still far ahead in skill, teamwork and workrate and can always turn up the heat when they need to.
Real are still just a shadow of the side they were quite a few years ago and I wonder....are the expensive superstars hungry enough,...are some of the others over the hill?
The fact they gained so many points I think was partly due to the complete lack of challenge and form from other teams like Valencia,Seville and other usual contenders, none of which showed any consistency at all or the will to mount a serious challenge.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

So the Copa del Rey goes to Seville after a hard fought battle in a great atmosphere at the Noucamp.
Nice to see the various honours well spread around this year.
Only the Champions League to decide before the World Cup of course.
Difficult one to call,.I think Inter will be slight favourites, but certainly wouldn't write of Bayern, espacially with Ribery in top form.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Sevilla are surely specialists in last minute goals  which cost Mallorca a CL slot and now they did it again in the Copa final. That said, nice final indeed and a good atmosphere. I had a day off yesterday and was hanging around town, the fans of both teams were everywhere. I saw Atletico shirts and flags everywhere, while the university district was crowded with Andalucians.


For the CL final I'd say Robben is the man to keep an eye on. I think the chances are 50-50 ; if Inter scores first Bayern will have to play the game that Inter likes most : allowing them to counter. If Bayern scores first though, then I doubt how Inter is gonna strike back.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

While not strictly La Liga... The national coach has announced his definitive selection of 23 players that will travel to South Africa. 

Note that Victor Valdes and Pedro got into La Seleccion, while also Torres has been selected despite struggling with an injury and maybe having to miss the first 1 or 2 games...



Goalkeepers: 
Iker Casillas (Real Madrid), Pepe Reina (Liverpool), Victor Valdes (Barcelona).

Defenders: 
Raul Albiol (Real Madrid), Alvaro Arbeloa (Real Madrid), Joan Capdevila (Villarreal), Carlos Marchena (Valencia), Gerard Pique (Barcelona), Carles Puyol (Barcelona), Sergio Ramos (Real Madrid).

Midfield: 
Xabi Alonso (Real Madrid), Sergio Busquets (Barcelona), Cesc Fabregas (Arsenal), Andres Iniesta (Barcelona), Javi Martinez (Athletic Bilbao), David Silva (Valencia), Xavi (Barcelona).

Attack: 
Jesus Navas (Sevilla), Juan Mata (Valencia), Pedro (Barcelona), Fernando Llorente (Athletic Bilbao), Fernando Torres (Liverpool), David Villa (Valencia).



Imagine this line-up:

Casillas
Albiol – Pique – Puyol – S. Ramos
Xabi Alonso – Sergio Busquets – Iniesta or Xavi
Pedro – Torres – Villa



If any European team can win the world cup (historically, European teams never win when the tournament is played outside of Europe) it's Spain for sure. England depends too much on Rooney, France relies too much on Ribery, Germany suffers from Ballack missing, Italy is getting a bit old, and Holland somehow always messes up in some way ... Can't see any other European team compete for the trophy but Spain.

Also note that for every single position on the field they have some very good back-ups, an injury is no drama because the bench has strong players on every single position. A rarity compared to most other teams in the WC.

Given the progress he made throughout the season and his current form, I'm surprised Bojan Krkic isn't selected. The selection is very dominated by Barca and Real but I guess when having seen their run this season that's only normal. The fact that a lot of players are used to play together from the time at their clubs, is another benefit for Spain.



When are the other favourites and outsiders releasing their 23 names? (thinking of Brazil, Italy, Germany, England, ...)


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

gerrit said:


> While not strictly La Liga... The national coach has announced his definitive selection of 23 players that will travel to South Africa.
> 
> Note that Victor Valdes and Pedro got into La Seleccion, while also Torres has been selected despite struggling with an injury and maybe having to miss the first 1 or 2 games...
> 
> ...


Yes,got to fancy Spain,looking at their squad and superb performance in the Euro cup also.
Agree with you regarding Bojan,..Villa is a Barca player now by the way.
He can be a match winner or sometimes a pain in the ass with his childish tantrums.
Don't know if Brazil or Germany are anything special this time,though they usually do come good on the day.
I don't think Ballack will be a big miss,...just surprised he kept his place at Chelsea,..never done anything special at all there,..but the Germans usually have a good selection of Poles,..which is why Poland are no longer a force.
The Italians were very lucky last time,...should have been out in the early rounds.
However Lady Luck and dodgy refs always play a big part,.. so who knows,...just wish they'd show their hand for England once,..but wouldn't rely on it and I doubt if they're quite good enough to go all the way.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Relying too much on Rooney IMO. Gerrard is overrated, the only other player of the English team -aside from Rooney- I'd really fear is Lampard who played outstanding this season.

Just checked the Brazilian selection and nothing too special IMO. Not bad obviously, but I rate Argentina a lot higher. The question of course is the lack of experience of Maradona with tournaments such as this. Examples enough how a coach can either lift a team above their usual level, or mess things up totally. But let's give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

I don't expect much from Italy. Germany always gets far even when not playing well, but I don't see them grab the trophy. Holland dito. Portugal could be one of the negative surprises I fear ; there's Cristiano Ronaldo but the rest of the team is far from convincing IMO.


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

littleredrooster said:


> ,..which is why Poland are no longer a force.


????
When were they EVER a force? If you suffer from insomnia just watch a Polish league match (watching grass grow is a lot more interesting) and you will be sound asleep within 5 minutes.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

JBODEN said:


> ????
> When were they EVER a force? If you suffer from insomnia just watch a Polish league match (watching grass grow is a lot more interesting) and you will be sound asleep within 5 minutes.


Well they put England out of the World cup on one occasion and gave them major problems on others,when but for helpful other results they would have been out at the qualifying stages again, in the Euro at least.
Since then of course the Germans have been cradle snatching or finding long lost forgotten relatives out of the blue.
I think it was the last World cup where all but one of the squad of German forwards had Polish connections and could have played for Poland at one stage before being offered a life of luxury for themselves and families by the Germans,..so that probably speaks for itself.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Maybe my memory is blurred but I can only think of Klose and Podolski. Not sure of Klose but Podolski was 2 years old when he moved to Germany with his family and probably hardly even remembers anything of those 2 years in Poland. Germany's been his home for all of his life... Also, even when a player acquires another citizenship during adult life (eg Deco, Mehmet Aurelio, plenty of other examples) it's their choice to choose which national shirt they wish to be wearing.

If we would criticize all national teams who have several foreign-born players or second generation immigrants in their team... The current Belgian team has about 5 or 6 such players, the French team has always been very multicultural, the Dutch team had some of their best players "imported" from former colony Surinam, Australian and US teams are full of second generation immigrants, ...

I don't see the issue. By the way, when was Poland a force in football?  They qualified for a few tournaments but then were eliminated in the first stage of those tournaments without standing a single chance. I wouldn't go as far as saying Polish league games are boring though ; their fans have a reputation to cause some "off the pitch" action if you know what i mean...




Anyways, Internazionale Milan 2 - Bayern München 0

The Special One does it again. Guess he will surely leave Inter now as he reached whatever possible he could reach in Italian football. He proved again to be a tactical genius. Bayern had the most possession of the ball, but did virtually nothing with it, Julio Cesar (the Inter goalie, FYI ) had exactly 1 or 2 saves to make in the entire game. The Inter defense was very well organised, and they switched to counter attacking very rapidly whenever they had a chance. Milito and Sneijder were playing amazing. Well deserved win. Bayern had the ball possession but did nothing with it, Inter played it perfectly when it comes to tactics and had more attempts on goal as well.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

So the Special One has pulled it off. Maybe with Ribery available it could have gone Bayerns way, as Robbins did what he could, but lacked the right type of support.
Jose is expected to be anounced as the new Real boss within the next few days.
It will be interesting to see how the fans take to his style of football as somehow I can't see Ronaldo spending to much of his time defending.
I would expect quite a few changes during his first season,..presuming of course he signs on the dotted line.
Probably all depends if they can outshine and do the double over Barca, and that could be a real tough task.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Well, let's not jump to early conclusions. Mourinho said he'd like to coach a big Spanish team sometime and named Real explicitly, but he didn't put a timeframe to it and also said he didn't rule out an extra season in Milan (although I guess, having achieved the maximum he could in Italy, he may not find another season in Milan challenging enough)

Also, I remember the Real president saying that this time he'd take full responsibility for whatever results would be achieved and would not blame it on the coach. So would he dare to stick to that promise and let Pelligrini have a second go next season? 

Also, let's not rule out the option of Mourinho returning to England, as he repeatedly stated how much he enjoys the Premiership.



One thing is sure: best coach of the last decade. He won the UEFA Cup and Champions League with Porto while having a budget that was very tiny for CL standards. He brought trophies to Chelsea while previous coaches failed to achieve success despite having spent a lot of money on players as well. He won back-to-back titles with Inter and delivered them their biggest European achievement since the sixties when they won the European Cup I (as it was called back then). Love or hate his character, but Mourinho is tactically a genius.

I also doubt he'd choose the same defensive tactics if signing at Real. Mourinho isn't a preacher of defending per se, he however knows which tactics suit the players he has in his selection best. With Inter, the players he had were leaning well to an organisation-based tactics. Give Mourinho a different set of players and he will probably figure out the right tactic as well to get the most out of the material he's offered. That is what I mean with him being the best coach in the last decade: whatever club he coached, whatever players he was managing, he got the results he was hired for.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

I'm not criticising any team for using foreign born players as long as its within the rules.
I 'm simply giving an example of one team thats done it to good advantage at the expense to another.
Obviously its almost always down to money at the end of the day, and yes Poland always used to give England a tough game years ago, incl dumping them out of the World cup,..but maybe England were just rubbish at that time.
Interesting that Inter did not have a single Italian player in their starting line up and only three of them were actually born in Europe,but thats the nature of the game these days for better or for worse.
I believe Celtic had an all Scottish line up when they beat a star studded Inter in the final many moons ago and around the same time such as Liverpool only had British players in the European Cup.
Maybe it was better that way, but its all history now and unfortunately its money that does almost all the talking.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

gerrit said:


> Well, let's not jump to early conclusions. Mourinho said he'd like to coach a big Spanish team sometime and named Real explicitly, but he didn't put a timeframe to it and also said he didn't rule out an extra season in Milan (although I guess, having achieved the maximum he could in Italy, he may not find another season in Milan challenging enough)
> 
> Also, I remember the Real president saying that this time he'd take full responsibility for whatever results would be achieved and would not blame it on the coach. So would he dare to stick to that promise and let Pelligrini have a second go next season?
> 
> ...


Well I'd say theres only one top English club in need of a manager right now and thats Liverpool,..but whether Jose would fancy it, or whether they would fancy him is another question, in view of their recent history with his last English love,Chelski.


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

littleredrooster said:


> Well they put England out of the World cup on one occasion and gave them major problems on others ..QUOTE]
> Memories of 1972-1974. In that case we might as well resurrected 1966


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

gerrit said:


> A. By the way, when was Poland a force in football?
> B. I wouldn't go as far as saying Polish league games are boring though ; their fans have a reputation to cause some "off the pitch" action if you know what i mean...


A. 1972-1974
B. Very true. These clashes are generally pre-arranged by the pseudo-fans. But it proves my point  the on-pitch action is so excrutiatingly boring that they arrange street battles to liven things up.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Anyone remember "The Clown", who made England pay dearly?

Jan Tomaszewski - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Glanville later commented it was no disgrace to go out to so fine a side as Poland.
They did in fact go on to claim third place.
Back then the commie govt.didn't take too kindly to their stars doing a runner to play elsewhere.
Be surprised if theres any half decent players left in their country now, so I have no great desire to watch either their football or their pitch battles.

Yes,we may possibly have to continue resurrecting 66,barring a miracle, or some very generous refs,which in Englands case are about as rare as hens teeth.


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

littleredrooster said:


> Back then the commie govt.didn't take too kindly to their stars doing a runner to play elsewhere./QUOTE]
> 
> Kazimierz Deyna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> They thought that he was past it so they let him go ( or maybe the Govt needed some hard currency)
> ...


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Went to a 6th division game today (= Catalan regional leagues, 2nd division) and must say that while the level was quite low obviously and while crowd was 200 maximum, I still enjoyed it (typical "equipos de barrios" where almost all guys live in the area and know the crowd personally) and was surprised by the accomodation. In my native Belgium, a 6th division ground would typically be a grass pitch with a building next to it that serves as dressing room and canteen, and mostly a small roof where people can shelter from the rain. The ground I saw today isn't exactly Camp Nou, but it had electrical scoreboard, floodlights, a nice terrace that was very well maintained and could host a very decent number of people, the cleanest toilets I saw in football in years, and a board room full of nice memorabilia and even a small fan shop.

Another team in the 6th division whose ground I visited without a game even had a small stand with seats. 

I was surprised to hear though that a lot of clubs in these leagues don't want to promote from the regional league to the Tercera Division, instead seeing the highest regional division as target. Apparently the costs involved to get accepted in the Tercera are high enough that a lot of local barrio clubs don't even want to promote out of the regional leagues... 

Can those regional league clubs enter the Copa del Rey at all, or is that only for clubs playing at least in Tercera Division or Segunda B?


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## scharlack (Nov 21, 2008)

gerrit said:


> While not strictly La Liga... The national coach has announced his definitive selection of 23 players that will travel to South Africa.
> 
> Note that Victor Valdes and Pedro got into La Seleccion, while also Torres has been selected despite struggling with an injury and maybe having to miss the first 1 or 2 games...
> 
> ...


I love watching La Roja play. It's a great team. The only weaknesses I see on that team are the full backs/wings (Ramos, Capdevilla, Marchena, etc). I don't trust them.

As far as my native Brazil goes... I am very disappointed with the list... hate to see players such as Felipe Mello, Gilberto Silva, Kleberson, Julio Baptista, Grafite making it to a World Cup ... We shall see what happens.

Cheers


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

scharlack said:


> I love watching La Roja play. It's a great team. The only weaknesses I see on that team are the full backs/wings (Ramos, Capdevilla, Marchena, etc). I don't trust them.


after one success we shouldn't forget that Spain have been relentless in delivering dissappointment 



scharlack said:


> As far as my native Brazil goes... I am very disappointed with the list... hate to see players such as Felipe Mello, Gilberto Silva, Kleberson, Julio Baptista, Grafite making it to a World Cup ... We shall see what happens.
> 
> Cheers


But when the Samba rhythm hits town Brazil transform into a magical dance troop. Can't wait to see them. And South Africa should suit them well I think. 

But who will be the unexpected dark horses. There is always one? I reckon Nigeria might perform better than expected. It would be great to see an African nation do well in Africa


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Dark horses? Well, I'd say watch out for Ghana and Ivory Coast, and also I'd expect the US to get quite far (they are developping rapidly, soccer is growing more and more popular and the sport is taken quite seriously finally in the States)

As for Brazil, don't forget they haven't been doing the samba for a while. Remember the world cup in USA in 1994. Brazil won it, but played football based on organisation rather than on amazing technical skills and attacking football. It was Brazil adopting a style that the likes of Germany were notorious for. I haven't seen many "samba football" from the Brazilian team for quite a long while now. As I said, I expect more from Argentina when it comes to the South American teams.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Well I won't be holding my breath for a miracle from England after tonights shocking display.
The only good thing was the result,which they say is all that matters, but most of the time it was embarrassing the way Mexico not only controlled the game, but did so mostly in Englands half.
OK there were some reserves on and they switched around a bit, but Capello was rightly pulling his hair out for most of the game and must have aged ten years in ninety minutes.
I mean when England went 3-1 up early in the second half they might have been expected to take full control and stroke the ball around a bit, but as always in those situations,unlike most quality teams, they had absolutely no control at all and on the rare occasion they got the ball they gave it straight back to the Mexicans and ended up under pressure.
Anyway looking forward to seeing Spain have a good run and likewise hopefully one or two of the African teams.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

At least you won. You know the cliche saying: "the teams who also manage to win their bad games, are the ones winning the trophies". Also, keep in mind you chose a quite tough sparring partner, Mexico is one of those teams that can upset even the best teams in a good day.

I'd be more worried about this:

Portugal - Cape Verde Islands 0-0 
USA - Czech Republic 2-4  (the same CZ who played terribly bad in the qualifiers and failed to reach South Africa)

Also, a recent result: Germany - Malta 3-0
Not very impressing neither despite choosing a quite weak opponent ...



The type of friendly games against weak opposition tend to not be useful for the players at all, so you're better off struggling against Mexico (and winning in the end) than the illusions caused by a 5-0 trashing of Armenia.

Tonight Holland-Mexico should be very interesting as preparation for the cup. I'll watch out for Spain-Saudi Arabia also, but as Saudi's team is a lot weaker than the team that won the Asian Cup and qualified for several world cups, I think the Spanish could have chosen a better sparring partner. I doubt this game has any advantages other than triggering the self-confidence of the players.


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

gerrit said:


> ... than the illusions caused by a 5-0 trashing of Armenia.


Didn't you mean a 5-0 trashing *by *Armenia
I think these friendlies are a way of bolstering their ailing coffers


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

gerrit said:


> At least you won. ................
> 
> Tonight Holland-Mexico should be very interesting ......


and a great barometer of the England performance. I think you're spot on that Mexico are no push over. Wish I could see that game but ....


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Should be on TV in several sports bars. Mexico have often been a dark horse, I remember in the Copa America (where they have been guest team several times) they've had some amazing results even against the likes of Brazil, Colombia, etc. So it's not an easy sparring partner, but then that's the type of games you learn most from as a player. Indicates how far you really are.

I mean, Germany played a friendly against Malta, Portugal invited Cape Verde Islands. Very nice, but even if you win 5-0, what does it indicate? You can just as well invite Guam and win 20-0, that still says nothing.

PS: Portugal only drew 0-0 with Cape Verde, that says something allright  I don't see them pass the group stage knowing they face Brazil and Ivory Coast (which IMO is the strongest of the African teams and could get quite far in the tournament)


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

PS: what channel will show Spain-Saudi Arabia? Where is the game being played? If it's in Barcelona I'd be keen on going to the stadium (but it'd surprise me as usually the Spanish team avoids games hosted in "separatist Cataluña"). Guess I'll witness it on giant screen in a tapas bar...


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

gerrit said:


> Should be on TV in several sports bars. Mexico have often been a dark horse, I remember in the Copa America (where they have been guest team several times) they've had some amazing results even against the likes of Brazil, Colombia, etc. So it's not an easy sparring partner, but then that's the type of games you learn most from as a player. Indicates how far you really are.
> 
> I mean, Germany played a friendly against Malta, Portugal invited Cape Verde Islands. Very nice, but even if you win 5-0, what does it indicate? You can just as well invite Guam and win 20-0, that still says nothing.
> 
> PS: Portugal only drew 0-0 with Cape Verde, that says something allright  I don't see them pass the group stage knowing they face Brazil and Ivory Coast (which IMO is the strongest of the African teams and could get quite far in the tournament)


So 20-0 means nothhing.
What about 24-0...then?
Yes,.. that was the score by Germany a couple of days back against a local amateur team!
Not sure whats the best formula for warm up games.
Playing a quality side and possibly struggling,
or having a 24-0 confidence booster agaist a team of nobodies, who had probably been ordered not to make a single serious tackle.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

But if you only play the likes of Malta, Faroe Islands, Liechtenstein etc you don't know by any means how far your team stands and if the players are prepared to enter the tournament and face the likes of Brazil, Argentina, Italy, ... The most educative games are against those that offer at least a bit of opposition.



That said, just watched Spain - Saudi. Let's just say Del Bosque should be worried. 3-2 against a team that was going downhill for years, and then the winner was an injury time header after the Saudi Arabian goalie made a bad mistake on a corner. The most worrying thing was that, while Spain played with most regular players, Saudi had posession quite often and never really got into a lot of problems. Aside from the 3 goals (of which 1 was a bad error by the Saudi goalie) and a header against the post, Spain rarely threatened the opponent and the Saudi's didn't have too much hassle to keep Spain under control. Also, the first Saudi goal was a terrible error by Iker Casillas like I rarely saw him make errors. One of the first things a goalie learns in youth football: "never leave your goal on a cross or corner, unless you are sure to have the ball". Iker just jumped for the ball and completely missed it.

OK, Spain won, but the way they were playing was worrying. Little pressing, rarely creating chances, ... It almost seemed they weren't even motivated to play.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

gerrit said:


> But if you only play the likes of Malta, Faroe Islands, Liechtenstein etc you don't know by any means how far your team stands and if the players are prepared to enter the tournament and face the likes of Brazil, Argentina, Italy, ... The most educative games are against those that offer at least a bit of opposition.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Much the same regarding Englands latest dismal performance against Japan which they won by way of two very fortunate own goals.
Can only think that,
1,They don't want to risk injury to key players.
2,They don't want to give away any secrets.
3,They hope to lure the opposition into a false sense of security
4,Or Lord forbid, they're every bit as bad as they look.

However I'm only just old enough to vaguely remember the run up to the 66 World cup, when Ramseys wingless wonders got all sorts of stick before the competition began.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Has Brazil done any friendlies already recently? I keep an eye on livescore.com all the time but rarely see them show up. 

Argentina is in good shape and scoring with eyes closed, but when the opponents are named Haiti and Canada I am hesitant to draw any conclusions from those big wins. 

Holland-Mexico was 2-1 so that is somewhat excusing England from struggling against the Mexicans ; it's an opponent that usually causes trouble to many good teams. 

I believe Spain got 2 friendlies left before they travel to South Africa. Curious to see if Del Bosque will make any changes to the team. The performance against Saudi Arabia was quite poor, I'm curious to see weither for example Victor Valdes will get a chance to prove himself in goal, and weither Pedro will get some more playing minutes.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Ibrahimovic' manager dropping a bomb in a local Catalan newspaper ... He said Ibra gets not enough playing minutes and literally said that if Guardiola first spended so much on getting him then to bench him so often, that he should be sent to a mental hospital ... In all honesty, especially with Villa coming over from Valencia, I doubt Ibra's future lies with Barça, apparently Inter Milan are keen on getting him back. All rumours of course but Ibra's manager, despite saying it in a quite blunt way, has a point: Guardiola seems to have dropped Ibra in the picking order (despite the huge expense to get him transfered to Barcelona) and if he is not playing all the time then the situation needs to be reviewed. Must say in the beginning of the season Ibra was often making decisive goals so I can understand the manager somewhat ; he suddenly got less playing minutes gradually despite having scored the goals they wanted him for.

Also wonder if Bojan won't be benched too much for his own sake when David Villa would be a regular starter. In the long haul I wouldn't be surprised Bojan leaving as well.


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## gerrit (Jul 15, 2008)

Well, if you were worried about England after the Mexico game...

Holland-Mexico 2-1
Italy-Mexico 1-2

Mexico seems to be a really tough nut to crack, so the fact that England won against a tricky opponent should give some confidence.

I was again not very impressed with Spain even if they did win the game against South Korea. But it again was a narrow win and without dominating the opponent. They'll have to improve if they want to stand a chance against the likes of Brazil or Argentina ... It's quite strange really because if we purely look at player to player, Spain has nothing but world class players in their squad. Somehow they however fail to impress lately ; I know friendlies don't say a lot but still, the performances against South Korea and Saudi Arabia were far from good.


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