# 75K before tax enough for London Family of 3?



## fishnchips (Mar 19, 2010)

Hi,

Still considering a move the London, and wanted to know if 75k for a family of 3 before tax is doable. Also any deductions for expats (housing, etc)?

Thank you!!

Fishnchips


----------



## BabsM (May 24, 2008)

A lot of people in England live on a lot less than that! But being sensible, its all down to your lifestyle and the area of London that you move to.


----------



## fishnchips (Mar 19, 2010)

*Appreciate the reply!*



BabsM said:


> A lot of people in England live on a lot less than that! But being sensible, its all down to your lifestyle and the area of London that you move to.


Thank you for your reply! Taking into account a decent 2-3 bedroom in North London, would we have a meaningful amount left after tax bite and living expenses (like food, utilites, council)? What should I expect for housing and living expenses (living like a local?)? 

Thank you

Fishnchips


----------



## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

fishnchips said:


> Hi,
> 
> Still considering a move the London, and wanted to know if 75k for a family of 3 before tax is doable. Also any deductions for expats (housing, etc)?
> 
> ...


As a US citizen, you also have to figure in the US tax obligations. Depending on the exchange rate for the pound, you're going to have some "leftover" salary after taking the overseas earned income exclusion. And then there is any additional income from "passive" sources (investments, rents, etc.) that isn't subject to the exclusion.

Then again, if you've been living overseas, you already know about this.
Cheers,
Bev


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

£75,000 gross equates to £50,561 a year or £4,213 a month net. A modest 2-bedroom flat in reasonable but not too expenisve area of Outer North London (such as Golders Green, Finchley, Hendon etc) would be around £900 to £1000 a month. Council tax around £100 to £120 a month, utilities around £100 a month and telephone/broadband around £30. Food bills, including modest amount of take-aways and eating out, around £1000. Add commuting, car, holidays etc. So I would say it's certainly doable, with some margin to spare, but no luxuries.


----------



## fishnchips (Mar 19, 2010)

*Thanks!*

Hi,

Thank you everyone for your kind advice. I am very much leaning towards making the move. Any areas I should avoid? I have heard I should stick with North London. Also, will I need a car? I would like to be well enough in the city to avoid that expense. Lastly, schools. I want to stick with state schools, any good sites that can give me the lowdown on areas with decent state schools?

Thanks again,

Fishnchips


----------



## fishnchips (Mar 19, 2010)

*Also...*

Another biggie,

I have been reading about salary sacrifice programs. Is it possible to have my company provide rent (in lieu of some salary) to shield me from higher tax brackets? That would stretch my potential pay farther.

Thanks!

Fishnchips


----------



## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

fishnchips said:


> Thank you everyone for your kind advice. I am very much leaning towards making the move. Any areas I should avoid? I have heard I should stick with North London. Also, will I need a car? I would like to be well enough in the city to avoid that expense. Lastly, schools. I want to stick with state schools, any good sites that can give me the lowdown on areas with decent state schools?


You may want to try getting in touch with one of the FAWCO groups in the London area. (There are 4 or 5 of them.) Member Clubs

FAWCO is the Federation of American Women's Clubs Overseas, and many of the member clubs publish guides to the area they are in, including information on schools, neighborhoods, etc. The groups are also a handy resource once you get to your new home.
Cheers,
Bev


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

fishnchips said:


> Another biggie,
> 
> I have been reading about salary sacrifice programs. Is it possible to have my company provide rent (in lieu of some salary) to shield me from higher tax brackets? That would stretch my potential pay farther.
> 
> ...


This won't save you any tax, as you will be taxed on the cash value of your perk (fringe benefit). Only certain items can be shielded from tax, such as pension contributions (within limit), or if the perk itself is tax-deductible, such as if you have to live in a tied house as a caretaker, minister of religion etc or for reasons of personal security.


----------



## Dannysigma (Feb 22, 2009)

It is very, very easy to live without a car in London - the tube and bus service is excellent (though not cheap - figure £130 a month per adult) and car insurance will be pricy (and traffic can be a nightmare).
North London is (very generally speaking) better than South (though most South Londoners I know would disagree vehemently), but it really comes down to individual areas. For lower rents (assuming you want to avoid the less salubrious areas) you either need to look at areas some way out of the city or you need to look at areas with no tube coverage (or, in some cases both)
In North London, try Finchley, Barnet (though that's quite a way out), Southgate/Palmer's Green/Arnos Grove, possibly Stroud Green and parts of Finsbury Park (though that can be a bit hit and miss) and Crouch End. East London I don't know well, but there are quite a lot of suburbs through Essex on the Central and District Lines. West London - there may be some nice parts that aren't expensive, but I can't think of any (the area around Hammersmith springs to mind, but I think that it went right up in price about 10 years ago). South London - lots of possibilities in that the tube network is less extensive. Try Plumstead, Lee, Charlton in South East London (avoid Abbey Wood and Thamesmead!) and Barnes and its surrounding area in South West London. There are sure to be many more that other posters can pinpoint through personal experience.
One other thing - on real estate websites, a lot of the apartment blocks look fantastic - brick-built 1930s mansion blocks. It still depends on area though - some (though not many) are gangland nightmares, so be sure to check! Try House Prices, Property, Crime - Local Neighbourhood | UpMyStreet as a starting point.
I lived in London for a long time before leaving the UK, so any questions, feel free to PM me.
And it really is a great city!


----------



## fishnchips (Mar 19, 2010)

*Great Info!*



Dannysigma said:


> It is very, very easy to live without a car in London - the tube and bus service is excellent (though not cheap - figure £130 a month per adult) and car insurance will be pricy (and traffic can be a nightmare).
> North London is (very generally speaking) better than South (though most South Londoners I know would disagree vehemently), but it really comes down to individual areas. For lower rents (assuming you want to avoid the less salubrious areas) you either need to look at areas some way out of the city or you need to look at areas with no tube coverage (or, in some cases both)
> In North London, try Finchley, Barnet (though that's quite a way out), Southgate/Palmer's Green/Arnos Grove, possibly Stroud Green and parts of Finsbury Park (though that can be a bit hit and miss) and Crouch End. East London I don't know well, but there are quite a lot of suburbs through Essex on the Central and District Lines. West London - there may be some nice parts that aren't expensive, but I can't think of any (the area around Hammersmith springs to mind, but I think that it went right up in price about 10 years ago). South London - lots of possibilities in that the tube network is less extensive. Try Plumstead, Lee, Charlton in South East London (avoid Abbey Wood and Thamesmead!) and Barnes and its surrounding area in South West London. There are sure to be many more that other posters can pinpoint through personal experience.
> One other thing - on real estate websites, a lot of the apartment blocks look fantastic - brick-built 1930s mansion blocks. It still depends on area though - some (though not many) are gangland nightmares, so be sure to check! Try House Prices, Property, Crime - Local Neighbourhood | UpMyStreet as a starting point.
> ...


Joppa,

Thanks! Too bad about the salary sacrifice thing. Do you know of any other tax saving opportunities (or point me in the right direction)?

Dannysigma,

Thanks for the detailed reply! Will add some of those areas to my search. What do you think of these locations:

Agate Close:

Agate Close, London, 2 bedroom flat - 2873599 - Zoopla!

St. Williams Court:

2 bed flat to rent in London N1 - Find a Property

Hyde Park (TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE??)

2 bed flat to rent in London W2 - Find a Property

Also, what are your thoughts on Islington and Highbury? I would like to be 30 mins from Central London tops. Also, I have a small toy poodle. Will that pose a problem for landlords? 

Thank you everyone!

Fishnchips


----------



## temporary (Apr 5, 2010)

Id look into school fees if your children are school aged as well


----------



## Dannysigma (Feb 22, 2009)

fishnchips said:


> Joppa,
> 
> Thanks! Too bad about the salary sacrifice thing. Do you know of any other tax saving opportunities (or point me in the right direction)?
> 
> ...



If it looks to good to be true in London in almost certainly is.

Islington and Highbury are very nice indeed (I lived between Islington and Camden up until 7 months ago) but expensive, unless you are looking at the Caledonian Road area which can be very rough indeed (at least on the estates). Holloway and Finsbury Park are a little further out than there (only a couple of stops) and are much more reasonable.

Of the three links you posted, forget Agate Close - Hangar Lane and Park Royal is one of the most depressing areas of London - all concrete and railway lines and dual-carriageways.

Unfortunately I can't seem to open the other two links. If St. WIlliams Court is the one on Gifford Street near King's Cross then it could be OK. People will tell you that Kings Cross is terrible, but it is currently undergoing gentrification (personally I really like it - our flat was a 10 minute walk up York Way) so there may be one or two bargains to be had, relatively speaking of course.

Without being able to see the Hyde Park flat I can't say much, other than there are a lot of sink estates not far north of Hyde Park (an estate agent may well get away with calling them Hyde Park but most people would say Maida Hill or Harrow Road or Edgware Road), so I'd be very careful.

The rule is pretty much that if you want to live within easy access of the city centre and don't want to be in an horrendous estate, you have to pay!
I'm not sure about pets - I suspect it will pretty much be up to the landlord.

Also, check for service charges (some apartment blocks charge many thousands of pounds a year service charges which isn't always included in rent) and council tax as some areas are more than double others.

One other thing: it may be worth checking out Jobs, Cars, Property, Free Classifieds and More - Gumtree.com as very often private landlords don't bother going through estate agents and advertise here instead. That was where we found our flat where we lived very happily for years!

Best of luck!


----------



## gazinchina (Apr 7, 2010)

an average salary is about 25k for a person living in london. I think that 75k is a good salary and you should have no problem living happily off it!


----------



## crys (Feb 20, 2009)

just to add my two pence worth, i think its a decent amount to live on, stick to north london, a lot prettier, agree that islington is mostly a nice area (i lived in camden all my life)and you will find most schools around finchley, islington for primary aged kids (under 11) pretty decent, however secondary schools can be a bit rough. trust me, i went to one!it is certainly do-able on your salary and i wouldnt bother with a car but choose your area carefully as with everything, there are nice parts and rough parts. if you do move to islington, make sure you take your kids to see arsenal play at the emirates if only once as islington being home to Arsenal, you either have to embrace the football scene or grin and bear it and its much more fun to get involved lol!


----------



## Dannysigma (Feb 22, 2009)

crys said:


> just to add my two pence worth, i think its a decent amount to live on, stick to north london, a lot prettier, agree that islington is mostly a nice area (i lived in camden all my life)and you will find most schools around finchley, islington for primary aged kids (under 11) pretty decent, however secondary schools can be a bit rough. trust me, i went to one!it is certainly do-able on your salary and i wouldnt bother with a car but choose your area carefully as with everything, there are nice parts and rough parts. if you do move to islington, make sure you take your kids to see arsenal play at the emirates if only once as islington being home to Arsenal, you either have to embrace the football scene or grin and bear it and its much more fun to get involved lol!


Can be hard to get tickets to Arsenal - except for (usually Carling) cup matches - we managed to get tickets for a tenner each last season (or perhaps the season before), which was pretty good, though it was mostly the youth team playing (they destroyed Sheff Utd 6-0)


----------



## terf (Apr 21, 2010)

75k?? Uh, yeah its doable!

Personally i'd say look at west london - around portobello road is great.


----------

