# The Cost of Living Thread



## Stravinsky

As time goes on I will add costs of stuff in Spain here for info, so you can build some kind of idea of the cost of living here in Spain. Bear in mind I am in a rural area, 6 kms from the sea in Northern Costa Blanca. CDS, and the cities will be more costly.

Hope this helps


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## Stravinsky

Groceries:

12 large eggs €1.07
Sardines in tomato, 4 x €1.56
8 lit bottle mineral water €1.84
Muesli 750 gm €2.09
6 x 1 ltr skimmed milk - €6.30
Tinned tuna 400 gms €3.75
Flora marg 600 gms €2.30
Gammon steak 340 gms €3.75
4 x Bifodus 0% fat yoghurts €0.95
Coffee beans 500 gms €2.20
Bunch of bananas €1.11
6 big apples €2.53
1 whole pineapple €2.10
Crianza Rioja Red wine €3.95
300 gms mushrooms €1.00
Bottle brandy 1 lit €7.45
750 gms sugar €1.60
I litre orange juice €1.19
24 cans Mahou beer €9.66
Oven Chips €1.85





Car:
Fuel: €1.05 diesel
10 w 40 Motor oil - 5 lit - €29.88


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## Guest

Well now you can add around 30% to the price of diesel (and petrol) since January.

And if that is not bad enough, the price of Gin in Carrefour has rocketed to nearly 5 euros a bottle over the last year. What is a man to do?


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## cosmokramer

*Prices have rocketed*

I have lived in Spain for the last 7 years, and i can agree, that prices of food and other household groceries has risen massively in that time.
The price of fuel is the obvious reason for this. Lots of people who live in the UK, including some of my friends, think that living here is really cheap, but its not now.
The only things i still see that are cheap are Beer and Cigarettes, i dont mind the beer being cheap, but i dont smoke, so cigarette prices dont mean anything to me.
Here's to hoping that fuel prices level out and hopefully drop soon.

Lee.


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## Goldberg

3 course menu del dia, Menu of the day.
On the coast in the Port of Javea. 
Huge amount of food.
Torpedo Roll, Garlic, Ali Oli
Salad, Soup Starter
Main Course, Fish, Chicken, Pork
Dessert, Fruit Salad
Wine, or Drink

Good quality food. 8 euros 50.

Always packed full of retirement people and spanish white collar workers

Where can you get this in the UK? Would be 3 times the price.
10m to the sea.

Fantastic.

Cant do it too often, as there is too much food. 

The Menu Del Dia (the menu of the day) seems to be a spanish quirk, where most people eat a sound days food at lunch time.

The prices range on the coast from 7 to 10 euros and it stops you from needing to cook and cater for the day. Very good.


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## Big Pete

El Capitan said:


> Well now you can add around 30% to the price of diesel (and petrol) since January.
> 
> And if that is not bad enough, the price of Gin in Carrefour has rocketed to nearly 5 euros a bottle over the last year. What is a man to do?


stop drinking and take up smoking


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## Guest

Big Pete said:


> stop drinking and take up smoking


Good god man, no way. Could never get away from the reek.


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## Guest

cosmokramer said:


> ..... Here's to hoping that fuel prices level out and hopefully drop soon.
> 
> Lee.


No sign of that yet Lee but I did note a few true words on Top Gear last week that driving style makes a huge difference to your effective cost per kilometre. I can get anywhere between 45 and 65 mpg equivalent by being heavy or light footed and even at 1.40 euros a litre the financial incentive is not there to pussyfoot around all the time, sometimes one just has to show the young @sshole in the flash job just how fast a diesel goes these days.


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## dizzy

Where abouts are you stravinsky? I am very interested as we are looking at Catalonia and a small area just inland from the costa brava called Aiguafreda.


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## Stravinsky

dizzy said:


> Where abouts are you stravinsky? I am very interested as we are looking at Catalonia and a small area just inland from the costa brava called Aiguafreda.


Between Gandia & Denia on the Costa Blanca North on the border of the Costa Del Azahar


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## lamha

Hello everyone

I have a job offer for Malaga. That's why I'm assessing the cost of living of this area.

Would approx 1900 Euros a month be enough for a young lad's decent life AND generating some savings? After my first enquiries I highly doubt it. What you you think about it?


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## rjnpenang

!900 is a good wage for down here on the coast, I know married Spanish earning 1200/1300, I am always very doubtful when promised a high salary- whats the job?. BTW, a "menu del dia", off the paseo maritimo is now 7 Euros to 7-50.


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## lamha

rjnpenang said:


> !900 is a good wage for down here on the coast, I know married Spanish earning 1200/1300, I am always very doubtful when promised a high salary- whats the job?. BTW, a "menu del dia", off the paseo maritimo is now 7 Euros to 7-50.


The employer is a worldwide IT-company, which is establishing a new office down there.

Coming from Switzerland I could earn here approx 4000 euros. So it's hard for me to believe, that life in Malaga would be half as expensive as in Switzerland, but it seems, that I could be wrong?


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## rjnpenang

My son was a student in Montreux for 3 years, I found Switzerland very expensive, especialy eating out, Come down here for a weekend and find out for yourself, (A 2/3 course menu of the day includes wine & bread. 7-50 Euros!)
I can take you to a place on the front line,overlooking the Med. where you can buy a beer (30cl) or a freshly made coffee or a mineral water, price?, 1 Euro, glass of wine 1-60€.


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## Barry Davys

*Cost of Living*

Hi Dizzy,

If you are coming to the Costa Brava you can add quite a bit to the cost of living given here. There are also summer and winter prices. 

Aiguafreda is beautiful. You haven't just bought the 5 Million € house have you? 

I live in Begur. The newspapers are reporting that 6 million car journeys will be taken this weekend. I think about one million of those have headed to Begur.

If you need some local information let me just ask.

Cheers

Barry


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## SunnySpain

Hi there,

Like everyone says depends on where you live.

The Costas and Major cities are expensive, but rural towns and villages are very cheap compared to the UK

As the saying goes, you get what you paid for !

You makes your choices, you pay the price - lol


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## Danny6776

Stravinsky said:


> As time goes on I will add costs of stuff in Spain here for info, so you can build some kind of idea of the cost of living here in Spain. Bear in mind I am in a rural area, 6 kms from the sea in Northern Costa Blanca. CDS, and the cities will be more costly.
> 
> Hope this helps


Hi there,
my wife and i are comeing out on an inspection trip on the 21st august 08.

We are thinkink about moveing out lock stock and barrel to Northern Spain (javea/ Denia area) can you tell us about the weather, the local people, way of liveing and also cost. This would be great if you could shed some light on this.
Kind regards
Danny


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## Pasanada

Stravinsky said:


> Between Gandia & Denia on the Costa Blanca North on the border of the Costa Del Azahar


I didn't know we're almost neighbours, Stravinsky!  I'm on the Southern Costa Blanca, bordering the Costa Calida and between San Miguel de Salinas and Pilar de la Horadada.


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## Basar

Hmmm reading your responses about the young lady who has asked whether $1,900 would be enough or not, I am getting worried about the offer I received.

I am offered €2,050/mo. after all taxes in Madrid. I suppose there's no way I am going to be able to afford living alone comfortably in a 1 bedroom apartment after being used to earning $4,850/mo. in Washington DC which appears to be cheaper than Madrid.

I am 24, male, drink a lot of wine (  ), social smoker...

Also, does anyone have an idea how much pool memberships cost?


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## Stravinsky

Flora €2.90
Calcium Milk €0.90 - 1.25 lit
Skimmed milk €0.84 lit
Coriander €1.15
Orange juice €1.19 lit
Peach juice €1.65 lit
Yoghurts 0% €0.80
Onions €0.59 kg
Pasta (Tricolour) €2.00 kg
Coca cola €0.45 per can
Spaghetti €1.05 kg
Tinned Sardines €0.74 
Mineral water €1.94 8 lit
Oven chips €1.20
Coffee Beans €7.84 kg
Mixed fresh salad €1.94 300g
Pistaco nuts €3.00 500 g
Toilet rolls €6.50 (24)
Mayonaisse €0.92 450 g
Eggs €1.15 (12)
Gin (Larios) €10.45 lit
Mahou beer €9.66 (24 cans)
Sugar €0.85
Aluminium Foil 50m €2.35
Clingfilm (50m) €4.35

Mixture from Carrefour, Mercadona & Eroski


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## Guest

lamha said:


> The employer is a worldwide IT-company, which is establishing a new office down there.
> 
> Coming from Switzerland I could earn here approx 4000 euros. So it's hard for me to believe, that life in Malaga would be half as expensive as in Switzerland, but it seems, that I could be wrong?


I am a Swiss living in Spain (Alicante). I am traveling to Switzerland on a regular basis, because part of my family lives there. The big difference in costs is about the fix costs. In Switzerland Rent, health insurance and Taxes will -at least for us as a family of three- be about half as much as in Spain. We rent an apartment for 900 Euros, which would be about at least 1500 - 1800 Euros in Switzerland. Taxes are, as far as I know, - I am retired- normally already deducted and, if you work, health insurance is free. So up to you to make the math. Going out to eat is also quite cheaper in Spain. I did notice that food prices are about the same (except fruits), or maybe sometime even cheaper (Migros) in Switzerland. Overall, I would estimate cost of living about 30% cheaper in Spain. But of course is does also depends on your life style. If you live very low key, then you can live in Spain on very little money (for Swiss standard). I mean many Spaniards have to live with an amount of money which would not even be sufficient to pay the rent in Switzerland.


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## dizzy

Update 4 November 2008 

Rent - 3 bed 2 balcony piso in Aiguafreda (50k north Barca) 500EU per month + tax. + 40% of outgoings

Carrefour Shopping List
Weetabix 2.65
Dozen eggs 1.29
Gin Old Thames 700ml 4.25
Nescafe coffee 200gr x 2 9.65
Peach Juice 1lt 0.53
Ketchup 560gr 0.92
Tuna 260gr 2.40
Honey 1kg 3.79
Margarine 500gr 0.75
Bacon Rashers 700g 5.00
Sangre de Torro Wine 4.00
Bread 1kg Toasting 1.24
Cupasoup 4pack 1.10
Cornflour 285gr 0.48
Iceberg Lettuce 0.69
Tissues pack 100 0.89
Fresh Bread 1kg 2.29
Milk Full Cream UHT 1.5lt 1.49
Spaghetti 700gr 0.75
Tonic Water 6 x 200ml (to go with the gin) 1.14
Dijon Mustard 200ml 2.30
Tomato Paste Tetra Brick 390gr 0.38
Yoghurt 16pack individual danone brand 2.99

Local Supermarket

Bag crossants 1.00
Apples x 5 Royal Gala 2.65kg
Blood Plums x 5 2.95kg

some things are cheap - others are not. It all comes out in the wash. My fortnightly shop for 4 people has been around 120EU - but i do get free mushrooms from the mountains, chestnuts too, and the occassional wholesale meat order from work.


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## CKSMadrid

Quadruple these prices at least to get an idea on the cost of Madrid.....
I suppose it is a good job that land on the outskirts is still relatively cheap and you can get a decent park home or build a house for a reasonable price still!


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## dosprompt

*Costs*

So how are people managing now ( Pension wise) with the downturn of the Euro/Pound, 

BBC today tried to make a massive issue on Pensioners running for the UK hills as they can no longer afford to live out there. typical news media.


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## jojo

dosprompt said:


> So how are people managing now ( Pension wise) with the downturn of the Euro/Pound,
> 
> BBC today tried to make a massive issue on Pensioners running for the UK hills as they can no longer afford to live out there. typical news media.


I think the BBC were on this forum a week or so ago looking for people who were struggling to make ends meet here and wanting to go back - that in itself tell me that the conclusion and the story was decided by the media and not by the reality. They could have asked for people who were doing well out here and they'd have got responses and made their programme about that - but all the british media ever do is "doom and gloom" - I hate them, they're biased and they make what they report happen!

I KNOW there are alot of folk who are finding the euro/pound thing a pain, me included but the media seem to enjoy "bigging" it up and making it worse. I dont believe running back to the UK would be a cheaper option tho!

Jo


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## dosprompt

jojo said:


> I think the BBC were on this forum a week or so ago looking for people who were struggling to make ends meet here and wanting to go back - that in itself tell me that the conclusion and the story was decided by the media and not by the reality. They could have asked for people who were doing well out here and they'd have got responses and made their programme about that - but all the british media ever do is "doom and gloom" - I hate them, they're biased and they make what they report happen!
> 
> I KNOW there are alot of folk who are finding the euro/pound thing a pain, me included but the media seem to enjoy "bigging" it up and making it worse. I dont believe running back to the UK would be a cheaper option tho!
> 
> Jo


I have to agree with you Jo, I too hate the way the Media will create a problem ( Mountains and Molehills come to mind) to up the ratings, its nothing to do with empathy, its just pure rating grabbing, we are all feeling the pinch in Europe, but the Media (TV and Papers) seem to get a kick out of Glorifying our problems, I hate newspapers and dislike TV issues such as prearranged "Public interest" documentaries,I had better get of my soap box and get back to reading the Exchange and Mart.


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## chris(madrid)

CKSMadrid said:


> Quadruple these prices at least to get an idea on the cost of Madrid.....


If you don't shop where normal locals do. Look for Mercadona & LIDL. Even Carrefour is suffering out nr us now.


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## SteveHall

Just to give you an idea of how inexpensive transport is - Fuengirola - Málaga by train 45 minutes just 2,60 euros (By bus it's 50 minutes and just 1,70) 

Barajas to the centre of Madrid - just 1,60 (?) (Compare that with the Heathrow/Gatwick/Stansted Express)


Another GREAT offer that is overlooked and NOT promoted well is the www.alsa.es "tarifa plana" for one week/fortnight/month. For just 99 euros you can get UNLIMTED travel on their buses/coaches. When you consider that Málaga - Barcelona is 135 euros return you can see what fantastic value it is - this week I am doing Málaga-Murcia-Torrevieja-Valencia-Barcelona-Torrevieja-Alicante-Málaga .....all for 99 euros!!


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## SteveHall

I read a friend's paper today Daily Express 50p whereas I pay 1,10 euro for my daily here. Almost exacttly twice as much in Spain, 

I thought about a new laptop for Christmas and they are wayyyyyyyyyyyyy cheaper in the UK. 

So, lower salaries but two more examples of products that are cheaper in the UK. 

Don't get me started on internet charges here!


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## jkchawner

god u eat some crap lol


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## mycal44

*buying a pre paid cell phone*

Hello we are staying in Spain for the month of feb arriving from Canada and would like to know if the grocery costs you posted are todays prices and is it possible to buy a very inexpensive pre paid cell phone any info would be gratefull, we are staying near the town of Mijas. regards Michael.


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## SteveHall

You can get an pre-paid cellphone from dozens (+) of outlets in the Fuengirola/ Mijas area. Alternatively get yours unblocked in Canada and just get a SIM here. 

Enjoy your stay - if you fancy a coffee whilst you are here just PM me


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## mycal44

*cost of living etc*

Thank you Steve for your very quick responce i have been told that the weather in Feb is quite mild approx 18c so i plan to play a bit of golf while i am in Spain much to my wifes objection so i am planning to take my clubs with me and as all prices have gone crazy its difficult to know how to budjet for the month we are going to be staying, so my question to you is what is a round of golf going to set me back beer included ,also the basic cost of gas ( petrol) Once again kind regards Michael


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## SteveHall

If you check on Expat portal, living in Spain, retiring in Spain. | thisisspain.info you will get a lot of info re golf. If you check Surinenglish.com, the site for Southern Spain. Latest News you will get this week's edition with all the special offers - just about every course has VERY special offers at the moment! 

Super 95 Super 98 Gasóleo A Gasóleo A nuevo 
Average price per liter 0,89 € 1,00 € 0,92 € 0,98 €


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## cuevadame

*Diesel*



SteveHall said:


> Super 95 Super 98 Gasóleo A Gasóleo A nuevo
> Average price per liter 0,89 € 1,00 € 0,92 € 0,98 €


Hi, how much is diesel currently?
Thanks.....Happy New Year!


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## chris(madrid)

cuevadame said:


> Hi, how much is diesel currently?
> Thanks.....Happy New Year!


Think you'll find Steve posted that info on DECEMBER 27th 2008. 

GASOLEO is DIESEL - Gasoleo A is AUTOMOTIVE diesel. 

The new (eco)diesel costs more BUT supposedly gives better mileage (KM-age). imo gives poor torque so is near to no benefit as you have to thrash the engine more to accelerate. Useless imo unless you do a lot of M-Way work and the engine is FAIRLY modern. My Discovery runs BEST on cheepo Supermarket diesel. The Citrôen is fine with both but for the use we give it - the normal Diesel is better.


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## jojo

cuevadame said:


> Hi, how much is diesel currently?
> Thanks.....Happy New Year!



I bought normal diesel last night at 82. something cents a litre, but it varies like in the UK. I filled my citroen picasso up for 40 euros from almost empty


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## cuevadame

Thanks for your replies - in Rip off Britain, it's still around £1 per litre - a lot more than petrol!


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## monstaboi

Does anyone know the car insurance prices for say, an Audi A6 built in 2000? Rough estimates are okay.


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## chris(madrid)

monstaboi said:


> Does anyone know the car insurance prices for say, an Audi A6 built in 2000? Rough estimates are okay.


Well for start you'll almost certainly find that ALL you'll be offered is THIRD PARTY ONLY, because it's over five years old. 

You may be offered Fire/Theft/Glass - but comp very very unlikely - and if it is will have a HUGE excess or be silly expensive. 

The price will depend where you are located - and can vary HUGELY. For this reason many Spaniards keep a rustic address as their primary one rather than where they actually live - it affects insurance/tax. Also which engine? - Insurance is cc dependant - NCD? - some companies will honour them - others will not!. Also your age and sex.

My recent experience of insurance here is that it is COMMON for one company to "suddenly" have an offer for one marque or even model - where the price drops by 50-60%. 10 years ago it was NOT the case - prices were more or less the same across the board. I halved teh insurance on one of the bikes this year.

Tends NOT to apply to old cars though. This often in cahoots with a manufacturer. And as they desperately want to sell new cars due to the recent 50% drop in sales - I think we'll see more of this.

At a guess we'd be looking at 350-450Euros TPFT for a car like that. But we're in Madrid which is NOT a cheap area. Spanish built cars are generally MUCH cheaper to ensure. Take into account that here they generally insure the CAR not the Driver. So a car is not only insured for you but generally also so are others.


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## mycal44

*more food info*

Hello Again with our dollar shrinking and the euro soaring i would like to know if the food list below is current to this months (Jan 09) prices. kind regards Michael.

12 large eggs €1.07
Sardines in tomato, 4 x €1.56
8 lit bottle mineral water €1.84
Muesli 750 gm €2.09
6 x 1 ltr skimmed milk - €6.30
Tinned tuna 400 gms €3.75
Flora marg 600 gms €2.30
Gammon steak 340 gms €3.75
4 x Bifodus 0% fat yoghurts €0.95
Coffee beans 500 gms €2.20
Bunch of bananas €1.11
6 big apples €2.53
1 whole pineapple €2.10
Crianza Rioja Red wine €3.95
300 gms mushrooms €1.00
Bottle brandy 1 lit €7.45
750 gms sugar €1.60
I litre orange juice €1.19
24 cans Mahou beer €9.66
Oven Chips €1.85





Car:
Fuel: €1.05 diesel
10 w 40 Motor oil - 5 lit - €29.88[/QUOTE]


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## jojo

mycal44 said:


> Hello Again with our dollar shrinking and the euro soaring i would like to know if the food list below is current to this months (Jan 09) prices. kind regards Michael.
> 
> 12 large eggs €1.07
> Sardines in tomato, 4 x €1.56
> 8 lit bottle mineral water €1.84
> Muesli 750 gm €2.09
> 6 x 1 ltr skimmed milk - €6.30
> Tinned tuna 400 gms €3.75
> Flora marg 600 gms €2.30
> Gammon steak 340 gms €3.75
> 4 x Bifodus 0% fat yoghurts €0.95
> Coffee beans 500 gms €2.20
> Bunch of bananas €1.11
> 6 big apples €2.53
> 1 whole pineapple €2.10
> Crianza Rioja Red wine €3.95
> 300 gms mushrooms €1.00
> Bottle brandy 1 lit €7.45
> 750 gms sugar €1.60
> I litre orange juice €1.19
> 24 cans Mahou beer €9.66
> Oven Chips €1.85
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Car:
> Fuel: €1.05 diesel
> 10 w 40 Motor oil - 5 lit - €29.88


Diesel around here is 83 cents a litre at the moment, but seems to change daily, but the trend is downwards. 


Dunno about anything else on your list, cos I havent I dont buy the same things

Jo


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## SteveHall

Just seen that the Sun in the UK is now just 30p per day (31 cts) whereas my Spanish daily is 1, 10 euro

I would also note that Málaga - Barcelona can be as little as 25 euros by rail - I hate to think what a 14 hour journey in the UK would be!


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## monstaboi

chris(madrid) said:


> Well for start you'll almost certainly find that ALL you'll be offered is THIRD PARTY ONLY, because it's over five years old.
> 
> You may be offered Fire/Theft/Glass - but comp very very unlikely - and if it is will have a HUGE excess or be silly expensive.
> 
> The price will depend where you are located - and can vary HUGELY. For this reason many Spaniards keep a rustic address as their primary one rather than where they actually live - it affects insurance/tax. Also which engine? - Insurance is cc dependant - NCD? - some companies will honour them - others will not!. Also your age and sex.
> 
> My recent experience of insurance here is that it is COMMON for one company to "suddenly" have an offer for one marque or even model - where the price drops by 50-60%. 10 years ago it was NOT the case - prices were more or less the same across the board. I halved teh insurance on one of the bikes this year.
> 
> Tends NOT to apply to old cars though. This often in cahoots with a manufacturer. And as they desperately want to sell new cars due to the recent 50% drop in sales - I think we'll see more of this.
> 
> At a guess we'd be looking at 350-450Euros TPFT for a car like that. But we're in Madrid which is NOT a cheap area. Spanish built cars are generally MUCH cheaper to ensure. Take into account that here they generally insure the CAR not the Driver. So a car is not only insured for you but generally also so are others.


Thanks for your quick and informative reply. I don't really need an all-risk insurance, just one for liability - i'm not really used to anything else; i'm Dutch, 23 years old, which means a simple liability insurance is about 800 a year here in The Netherlands.

The car that I want (I didn't buy it yet though) is an Audi A6 with a 2.4 liter petrol engine. But I might go for a Rover 75 (probably 2.0 CDT diesel) instead because of all the options and luxury. I'm thinking that it'll be hard to find a garage to fix the Rover though, in case something breaks down - this might not be the right thread to ask but anyone know more about this?

I'm pretty reluctant to buy a Seat Ibiza or something Spanish built because of the 13-in-a-dozen factor and the lack of luxury - i'll be driving a lot for work, and will go back to NL once a month. I will be situated in or near Benidorm (Altea, Albir, Alfaz del Pi) so that should probably be a little cheaper than Madrid.

Is your guess of 350-450 per month, quarter or year?


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## mycal44

jojo said:


> Diesel around here is 83 cents a litre at the moment, but seems to change daily, but the trend is downwards.
> 
> 
> Dunno about anything else on your list, cos I havent I dont buy the same things
> 
> Jo


Hello Joe, thanks for your response the food list was already in the forum i was just using it as a guide-also as we shall be staying in Mijas for a month this Feb we would like to know what kind of clothing necessary for the evenings coats jackets etc as we are traveling from Canada and we have weight restrictions with the airline we are using we do not want to take unnecessary items. Regards Michael.


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## SteveHall

Mijas in February? Coats


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## Burriana Babs

I would not bring a big heavy coat but in the evenings yes it gets a bit cool in the moutains down here. When the sun goes down it can get chilly. But people on the beach during the day when sunny.


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## SteveHall

Babs - have you ever been to Míjas in February after dark? I have. 

I remember February 2002 when it rained every single day!


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## jojo

Coats and warm jumpers for the evenings. It gets really cold when the sun goes down. I'm not that far away from Mijas. We went out this evening and I wore a thick polo neck jumper, combat trousers, ski boots, a bomber jacket and scarf and I was still cold. And as Steve pointed out, February does seem to have its fair share of rain - we moved out here last Feb and it tipped down nearly everyday for three weeks, I spent my life huddled over an oil heater. I so nearly went back to England!!!!!

Jo


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## Burriana Babs

Yes I have been to Mijas and compared to the UK it was rather chilly but nothing like the UK. I am in the campo in Nerja where it is even colder than Mijas and still not wearing a HEAVY coat. Jumper yes coat no.


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## chris(madrid)

monstaboi said:


> Thanks for your quick and informative reply. I don't really need an all-risk insurance, just one for liability - i'm not really used to anything else; i'm Dutch, 23 years old, which means a simple liability insurance is about 800 a year here in The Netherlands.
> 
> The car that I want (I didn't buy it yet though) is an Audi A6 with a 2.4 liter petrol engine. But I might go for a Rover 75 (probably 2.0 CDT diesel) instead because of all the options and luxury. I'm thinking that it'll be hard to find a garage to fix the Rover though, in case something breaks down - this might not be the right thread to ask but anyone know more about this?
> 
> I'm pretty reluctant to buy a Seat Ibiza or something Spanish built because of the 13-in-a-dozen factor and the lack of luxury - i'll be driving a lot for work, and will go back to NL once a month. I will be situated in or near Benidorm (Altea, Albir, Alfaz del Pi) so that should probably be a little cheaper than Madrid.
> 
> Is your guess of 350-450 per month, quarter or year?


Right well at 23 - yup you'll probably pay more than 450/yr. I am 49 - considered LOW risk. 

Buy Diesel. Spanish built includes masses of europes Citroen and Peugeot plus Ford. And from experience as a high mileage driver I'd drive a Peugeot 406 in preference to an A6 any day. As for SEAT - well they are basically Volkswagens. 

If you'll be doing HIGH mileages - look at what Spanish taxi drivers use. 

As for Benidorm being cheaper - I would not bank on it. There are a lot of thumps due to all sorts of reasons in tourist areas - will not surprise me if it's more than Madrid.


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## lshilleto

Hi there,just been nosing at your link & it says that you live near Denia,we are looking to move into this area & was just wondering if you could let us know how you find living there,cheers,Lee.


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## Stravinsky

lshilleto said:


> Hi there,just been nosing at your link & it says that you live near Denia,we are looking to move into this area & was just wondering if you could let us know how you find living there,cheers,Lee.


Who are you talking to? 
Maybe start a new thread, as this is the cost of living sticky


----------



## lshilleto

Stravinsky said:


> Who are you talking to?
> Maybe start a new thread, as this is the cost of living sticky


Sorry,have'nt been on here for a while,getting a bit mudddled!


----------



## EllieC

I have just moved back to the US having spent the last 6 years in Spain and although I must agree with you that during that time prices went up dramatically (although don't you think food and staples seemed to stay about the same for 4-5yrs) but......I am suffering some severe sticker shock here! Wine prices are a shocker after spain, cheese, milk, bread....$4 for a loaf of como pan rustica!! Ouch! Spain is still pretty cheap. You can't get a 3 course meal here for 8euros!





cosmokramer said:


> I have lived in Spain for the last 7 years, and i can agree, that prices of food and other household groceries has risen massively in that time.
> The price of fuel is the obvious reason for this. Lots of people who live in the UK, including some of my friends, think that living here is really cheap, but its not now.
> The only things i still see that are cheap are Beer and Cigarettes, i dont mind the beer being cheap, but i dont smoke, so cigarette prices dont mean anything to me.
> Here's to hoping that fuel prices level out and hopefully drop soon.
> 
> Lee.


----------



## the owl

Stravinsky said:


> As time goes on I will add costs of stuff in Spain here for info, so you can build some kind of idea of the cost of living here in Spain. Bear in mind I am in a rural area, 6 kms from the sea in Northern Costa Blanca. CDS, and the cities will be more costly.
> 
> Hope this helps


I live in a small inland village in Murcia. I have lived in spain for over three years, i run my own busniess based with the spanish. I am shocked how much prices are rising, and believe that living in Spain is no longer cheap! I am also encountering problems ( i speak good Spanish), where before i always found them friendly, they seem to have closed ranks. (SNIP)


----------



## vaternish

*cost of living*



Stravinsky said:


> As time goes on I will add costs of stuff in Spain here for info, so you can build some kind of idea of the cost of living here in Spain. Bear in mind I am in a rural area, 6 kms from the sea in Northern Costa Blanca. CDS, and the cities will be more costly.
> 
> Hope this helps


Can you tell us if these prices are from large supermarkets or the local produce shop and markets as where we go in Andalusia ( we are not there permanently yet ) in a small town between Sevilla and Cordoba the cost of living does not appear to be so high for some of the items. Obviously petrol is up....still cheaper than uk. though but then that wouldn't be difficult!!!
Thanks


----------



## Stravinsky

That was a while ago, from large supermarkets generally, not always the cheapest way!

Recently

Aldi

White sugar €0.86
Carrots (big bunch) €0.65
Large Eggs (12) €1.19
Pasta tubes 500gm €0.39
Skimmed milk €0.53
Digestive biscuits 400gm €0.69
Mango (half kilo) €1.11
Sausages (8) €2.29
Tray of Beef Mince €1.65
Mushrooms €1.89
Kiwi fruit 0.87 kilo €1.47
Bananas 1,37 kgs €1.58
Loaf white bread €1.25
Large Prawns 0.80 kg €3.45 

Mercadona

6 beef burgers (yummy) 3.00
6 apples Royal 1.39
1 Calbaza (pumpkin) 1.84
Digestive biccies 2 pack 1.49
Boiled ham 125 gm 1.36
4 burger buns 0.85
a bloody nice cake 1.35
8 tomatoes 1.45
8 yoghurts 1.70
big bag crisps 0.79
Baked bleeding beans (Heinz) 0.89
Vino tinto litre 1.99
12 large eggs 1.24 

Times is tough 
We now go to Aldi & Lidl first to buy what we know is reasonable value and then go to Mercadonna for choice, and veg and fruit usually from the local market


----------



## chris(madrid)

Stravinsky said:


> Times is tough
> We now go to Aldi & Lidl first to buy what we know is reasonable value and then go to Mercadonna for choice, and veg and fruit usually from the local market


 I just use Mercadona weekly and LIDL monthly (generally only non perishables). Find it's a good overall average. 

For really cheap fruit/veg cant beat our local Moroccan shop. Their produce however is really sold to be used that day - they deliberately buy short shelf life produce. Cheaper but means you have to shop daily. Generally don't have the time though.


----------



## ibz1492

*Ibiza Expat Living*

[Most Menus del Dia here on Ibiza are 15 Euros, give or take. Of course there are a couple for 6 Euros and some for 37 Euros... but........ Better choice is to know your local restaurants and get a good meal not full of bad calories and enjoy for 3 hours over a nice bottle of wine with friends. 
Petrol here is still way more than I am used to in USA, but lots less than it was 6 months ago. Housing here is ridiculously high even with the economic downturn..... 
A one bedroom house on the sea sold here last year for 21 MILLION Euros; yes it had lots of land with it but none of it could be built upon..... One bedroom condo in a typical area, is now about 150,000 to 250,000 without going into the next level of luxury.
Hope this explains a bit of Ibiza pricing. W


----------



## VipersWrath

*Cost of living/ housing property renting ect.*

I am a teacher here in the US and I was considering moving out to Spain to teach English. I was needing to see if anyone could help me find out prices on cost of living out there: housing (renting, buying, property), food, and transportation (fuel vs public trasnportation).

Thank you and I hope to hear from you soon.


----------



## SteveHall

I think if you search this forum that you will find most of those questions answered. The one thing that you might not find is employment. Are you a US citizen? If so you are going to find it difficult to get a VISA. Even if you could get a visa, how much and how well paid work will you get? Precious little I fear. I know of three language schools that have closed recently and I know of another 2 that are desperately trying to find a buyer.


----------



## VipersWrath

Thank you so much for the information!

c


----------



## SteveHall

VipersWrath said:


> Thank you so much for the information!
> 
> c


Pleasure - probably not what you wanted to hear but these are the FACTS. Another FACT is that Spain has the highest unemployment in Western Europe and that the government are paying to repatriate legal immigrants and making life very tough for sin papeles. 

I wish you luck


----------



## jojo

VipersWrath said:


> I am a teacher here in the US and I was considering moving out to Spain to teach English. I was needing to see if anyone could help me find out prices on cost of living out there: housing (renting, buying, property), food, and transportation (fuel vs public trasnportation).
> 
> Thank you and I hope to hear from you soon.


It very much depends on which part of Spain you were thinking of. Inland is a little cheaper than the coast, you also have expensive areas such as Marbella, Puerto Banos, Barçelona... All vary. Also what sort of accomodation were you looking at, apartments, villas, town houses, with gardens swimming pools....

The cost of living in Spain as a whole used to be much cheaper than the UK, but nowadays it isnt, theres little difference in it

As steve says, have a look through the forum and see what you turn up. There are references to estate agents which may give you some clues as to prices and areas.


Jo


----------



## VipersWrath

Thank you both so much! I will take a look around in the forums and see what happens!

Muchas Gracias y suerte a ustedes!


----------



## blues

*thinking off moving over*



Stravinsky said:


> As time goes on I will add costs of stuff in Spain here for info, so you can build some kind of idea of the cost of living here in Spain. Bear in mind I am in a rural area, 6 kms from the sea in Northern Costa Blanca. CDS, and the cities will be more costly.
> 
> Hope this helps


what are the jobs like over there are thay easy to get one


----------



## jojo

blues said:


> what are the jobs like over there are thay easy to get one



Absolutely appalling. The unemployment in Spain is far worse than in the UK and getting worse by the day. Last count I think one in six were unemployed. The car industry, construction industry and the tourist industry seem to be the hardest hit for now

Jo


----------



## SteveHall

Yes , more than 4 million unemployed and 17% of the workforce. That figure is likely to rise to over 20% before it gets better.


----------



## jimm1909

cosmokramer said:


> Here's to hoping that fuel prices level out and hopefully drop soon.
> 
> Lee.


Amen to that my friend!


----------



## Ivor

*Upside to smoking*



El Capitan said:


> Good god man, no way. Could never get away from the reek.


The more you smoke, the less you smell it, the cheaper it becomes. There is an upside


----------



## JBODEN

How can one attach an COLI excel file to this post?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

*European quality of life index*

This has info about almost everything, petrol prices, food, hours of sunshine... Compares european countries. Top countries France and Spain:clap2::clap2:.
Bottom countries UK and Ireland 

Please note

This year’s index does not reveal the full impact of the recession – this can be expected to show next year.


I still think it's worth looking at!!


----------



## JBODEN

PW That is certainly interesting. 
I noticed that cigaretes in PL are GBP 1.08 - that is the price of cigaretes with the worst quality tobacco. 'Normal' cigies are GBP 2 minimum. 
The alcohol figure I just can't understand. Is it a weekly monthly or annual figure? 
% spending on education & health is wrong (... I think, but I'll check again) ... and the net household income after tax ... *Ha*! A crazy figure. The average wage is approx. PLN 3000 per month [EDIT: gross!] which is the equivalent of GBP 8000 p.a. , so x 1.33 = GBP 10,500 [EDIT: Net of taxes and NIC = GBP 7000]. They have a figure of GBP 21,331 which is ridiculous.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

JBODEN said:


> PW That is certainly interesting. I noticed that cigaretes in PL are GBP 1.08 - that is the price of cigaretes with the worst quality tobacco. 'Normal' cigies are GBP 2 mininmum. Alcohol is wrong as well as % spending on education & health. And the net household income after tax ... *Ha*! A crazy figure. The average wage is approx. PLN 3000 per month which is the equivalent of GBP 8000 p.a. , so x 1.33 = GBP 10,500 (they have a figure of GBP 21,331 which is ridiculous).


I know you hate averages JB, but "I still think it's worth looking at!"


----------



## JBODEN

Pesky Wesky said:


> I know you hate averages JB, but "I still think it's worth looking at!"


Not true! I don't hate averages. Call me Mister Average!
I am interested in the figures but when I see 3 or 4 stats that are obviously wrong I become concerned about all the stats. 
In the case of cigies - if the cheapest are GBP 1.08 then how can the average be 1.08. That would mean that 100% of the population is smoke the cheapest. That is patently untrue because, if it were true there wouldn't be any of the better brands on the market.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

JBODEN said:


> Not true! I don't hate averages. Call me Mister Average!
> I am interested in the figures but when I see 3 or 4 stats that are obviously wrong I become concerned about all the stats.
> In the case of cigies - if the cheapest are GBP 1.08 then how can the average be 1.08. That would mean that 100% of the population is smoke the cheapest. That is patently untrue because, if it were true there wouldn't be any of the better brands on the market.


OK Mr. Average  (Is your name Joe as in Joe Public??!)

I got interested because I thought it had so much data compared and contrasted which would be really useful to the forum members. Perhaps I should analyse what I'm reading !!?? 

If it's a load of cr*p perhaps we should just get rid of it...


----------



## Xose

Pesky Wesky said:


> OK Mr. Average  (Is your name Joe as in Joe Public??!)
> 
> I got interested because I thought it had so much data compared and contrasted which would be really useful to the forum members. Perhaps I should analyse what I'm reading !!??
> 
> If it's a load of cr*p perhaps we should just get rid of it...


Hi PW,
I have several of those countries (not Poland mind) as reference and they look fine to me. Please don't delete it. It'll be goog to compare aginst the next one when the crisis movements do get factored in.

Thanks,
Xose


----------



## JBODEN

Pesky Wesky said:


> ... perhaps we should just get rid of it...


No way! It's a usefull starting point. I'll try and contact the authors and ask them where they got their source data. Maybe they have a weird x-rate? Who knows.
Hopefully other Countries will be more accurate. 
Do you accept the average wage for Spain?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

JBODEN said:


> No way! It's a usefull starting point. I'll try and contact the authors and ask them where they got their source data. Maybe they have a weird x-rate? Who knows.
> Hopefully other Countries will be more accurate.
> Do you accept the average wage for Spain?


A bit low, isn't it? Says it's for one 100% salary plus another at 33%...


----------



## samiragz

hi,
i'm a Nigerian currently living in Nigeria but hope to move to Spain soon can anyone please tell me how i can go about getting job in Spain and in what city or village i can start from i'm an agriculturist with an IT background so i want something in that area
thanks Grace


----------



## jojo

samiragz said:


> hi,
> i'm a Nigerian currently living in Nigeria but hope to move to Spain soon can anyone please tell me how i can go about getting job in Spain and in what city or village i can start from i'm an agriculturist with an IT background so i want something in that area
> thanks Grace


Spain has mass unemployment 18% of the workforce is unemployed and desperately looking for work. Would you need a visa to work here, cos that would make it even even harder for you to find someone to enploy you here

Jo xx


----------



## Maddalena

*current costs*

Hello: We travel to Spain as often as possible..just addicted as I tell my friends. We were there last March (2009). We were in La Carihuela area (between Benalmadena and Torremo). It was a bit depressing as many bars and restaurants (and other businesses) were closed, gone, boarded up, etc. I was wondering about the area now, and also, if possible, typical costs for cafe meals, _jarras_ of sangria, etc. Thanks!


----------



## melbatoast

Moderator--out Stravinsky, in JoJo?-- can you do an updated post of the items in front of this sticky--showing 2008 date-- much appreciated as we weigh our options!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

I've just remember the OCU magazine which is a bit like *Which?* in the UK. They have a yearly report on supermarkets and which ones the cheapest. They talk about 4 different shopping baskets which are:

Cesta tipo = well known brand names like *Leche Pascual*
Cesta Económica = The cheapest product of it’s type like the cheapest carton of milk
Cesta envasado = packaged goods
Cesta productos frescos = fresh goods 

The links are on this page
http://www.ocu.org/compras-de-productos/ahorrar-en-la-cesta-de-la-compra-s466864.htm

It doesn't tell you how much the products are though...


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Video on the subject from 2009


----------



## melbatoast

very good--
Pesky thanks for posting!


----------



## Bexnshim

*Lanzarote Living*

Double the cost of living in Spain and then you will have the prices for Lanzarote, On the good side some big supermarkets coming so prices should come crashing down!


----------



## Stravinsky

melbatoast said:


> Moderator--out Stravinsky, in JoJo?-- can you do an updated post of the items in front of this sticky--showing 2008 date-- much appreciated as we weigh our options!



I'm out????? :boxing:


----------



## melbatoast

Stravinsky, when I surveyed your most current posts on this thread, I thought maybe you'd left for a long symphony. Hey, I'm just the drunk at the piano, what do I know?


----------



## laulah

I think it's not only dependent on where do you live but also where do you shop.. at least here in Barcelona in the beginning I spent so much money for little expensive supermercados when I could have gone to bigger chains immediately.

Also sometimes it's a mystery why price of a same product varies enormously in different supermarkets.

But after some investigations you'll find the right places


----------



## jvmills

English language newspapers are always more expensive abroad though.


----------



## gabriele

In 2001, I lived in the Denia, Javea, Alicante triangle in Spain. I don't remember food and drink prices. However, they have gone up everywhere with the Euro. A friend of mine from Tenerife Island tells me that mainland Spain, such as Valencia is cheaper than the Canary Islands. However, petrol, cigarettes, liquor as well as some other stuff only cost a fraction in Tenerife. And you seldom need heating, winter clothes, nor expensive entertainment for children. The sun shines most of the year and beaches are for free. 

The beauty about living in Spain in general, is that going out for buying a coffee, a drink, ice creme, pizza or a total meal is still very much affordable. This is due to a century old culture of socializing outside. Forget about a birthday bash in a good restaurant in London or in any other big European city. It's too expensive. 

(SNIP)


----------



## jmthomas

I was suprised to hear from a staff member at Alcampo that the cost of products varies depending on the store you are at. On the coast here it is more expensive than up in Granada. With the petrol it would take to get there it is not worth going to check but I had always assumed it would be the same.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

jmthomas said:


> I was suprised to hear from a staff member at Alcampo that the cost of products varies depending on the store you are at. On the coast here it is more expensive than up in Granada. With the petrol it would take to get there it is not worth going to check but I had always assumed it would be the same.


Yes, I was surprised when I found out that shops in the same chain can change their prices according to their location. I think it's illegal in the UK??? It might not be worth going out of your way for the weekly shopping, but if you're buying a computer or tv or smth it might be a good idea to look around.


----------



## Stravinsky

I doesnt suprise me, as for some time I have been saying that the cost of living in CDS must be higher than here. People keep commenting from CDS that its as expensive there as the UK. Its clearly still cheaper here in CB North than the UK, so there must be a great variance throughout the country


----------



## xabiaxica

no big surprise to me either

we have 2 Mercadonas here - one in the pueblo & one between the port & the Arenal 

the second is the one most likely to be used by holidaymakers & the prices do go up in summer (they tell us they put them down in winter - but we know better)

3 MasyMas stores in the town too - all with different prices


----------



## gabriele

*Spain Mercadona Supermercados prices*



xabiachica said:


> no big surprise to me either
> 
> we have 2 Mercadonas here - one in the pueblo & one between the port & the Arenal
> 
> the second is the one most likely to be used by holidaymakers & the prices do go up in summer (they tell us they put them down in winter - but we know better)
> 
> 3 MasyMas stores in the town too - all with different prices



I am suprised to hear that mainland Spain's Mercadona Supermercados have different prices. Now, I will watch out for this on Tenerife Island. May be fruit and vegetable may vary which would make sense in Los Realejos, for instance. Why? 
It has its own market and cultivates much in nearby farms which may affect delivery prices, perhaps. Should they gather all produce in one single wholesale market on the island like in Santa Cruz, then this would change the prize situation. You know, like with the post office system which is so pathetic, as some think.


----------



## fourgotospain

> 3 MasyMas stores in the town too - all with different prices


Mas y Mas I believe is a franchise rather than a chain and therefore able to set their own prices maybe?

As a small shopkeeper I can tell you that suppliers prices vary HUGELY for the smae item - I spend hours comparing them all, and if you don't use the spanish suppliers then you'll def. pay more.


----------



## xabiaxica

fourgotospain said:


> Mas y Mas I believe is a franchise rather than a chain and therefore able to set their own prices maybe?
> 
> As a small shopkeeper I can tell you that suppliers prices vary HUGELY for the smae item - I spend hours comparing them all, and if you don't use the spanish suppliers then you'll def. pay more.


are you sure??

their website says it is a family owned company:confused2:


----------



## Guest

Stravinsky said:


> People keep commenting from CDS that its as expensive there as the UK.


That's because most people down here still shop at Spainsburys or Supersol so get charged as tourists! I certainly don't think it's more expensive here, the only thing that makes the UK appear cheaper is all the BOGOF and 3-for-2 type deals. If you buy what you went in for and not tempted to fill your cupboard with excess then it's definitely no more expensive here - cheaper when you compare the quality of what you're buying and the equivalent UK products


----------



## xabiaxica

ShinyAndy said:


> That's because most people down here still shop at Spainsburys or Supersol so get charged as tourists! I certainly don't think it's more expensive here, the only thing that makes the UK appear cheaper is all the BOGOF and 3-for-2 type deals. If you buy what you went in for and not tempted to fill your cupboard with excess then it's definitely no more expensive here - cheaper when you compare the quality of what you're buying and the equivalent UK products


you're right

recently in the UK I discovered that you could shop VERY cheaply in the supermarkets

but to buy the equivalent fresh produce that I buy here would have cost at least as much - & probably more!!


----------



## jojo

ShinyAndy said:


> That's because most people down here still shop at Spainsburys or Supersol so get charged as tourists! I certainly don't think it's more expensive here, the only thing that makes the UK appear cheaper is all the BOGOF and 3-for-2 type deals. If you buy what you went in for and not tempted to fill your cupboard with excess then it's definitely no more expensive here - cheaper when you compare the quality of what you're buying and the equivalent UK products


I dont shop in spainsburys or Supersol! I shop in mercadona, some of the little supermarkets and the street market in the main (ok, occasionally I go to Iceland for lenor lol) Yes, if you compare the prices its a little better than the UK, however, the BOGOFs etc do give the UK an edge. Altho with the better exchange rate I'm noticing a difference

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> you're right
> 
> recently in the UK I discovered that you could shop VERY cheaply in the supermarkets
> 
> but to buy the equivalent fresh produce that I buy here would have cost at least as much - & probably more!!


OK, huge generalisation here, but at the moment I think many Spanish just shop in a totally different way. There are still loads of fresh produce markets, un packaged goods and many Spanish cook a lot more than their British counter parts. A lot more packaged goods and ready meals are sold in the UK.
It's changing though, as supermarkets and hipermarkets dominate more and more, but there's still a difference at the moment


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> OK, huge generalisation here, but at the moment I think many Spanish just shop in a totally different way. There are still loads of fresh produce markets, un packaged goods and many Spanish cook a lot more than their British counter parts. A lot more packaged goods and ready meals are sold in the UK.
> It's changing though, as supermarkets and hipermarkets dominate more and more, but there's still a difference at the moment


oy!!!


I'm British & I buy unpackaged stuff & cook from scratch

my brother on the other hand has taken Aussie nationality & complained that he couldn't get the range of ready-prepared/stick-it-in-oven/microwave stuff in the UK that he's used to in OZ















I've said that before haven't I


----------



## Pesky Wesky

xabiachica said:


> oy!!!
> 
> 
> I'm British & I buy unpackaged stuff & cook from scratch
> 
> my brother on the other hand has taken Aussie nationality & complained that he couldn't get the range of ready-prepared/stick-it-in-oven/microwave stuff in the UK that he's used to in OZ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've said that before haven't I


 I meant people *living* in the UK, but I knew that one was going to come bouncing back at me . In my defence I did say it was a generalisation. 
On the other hand it is a *fact* that far more convenience foods are bought in the UK than in Spain and the other fact is that consumption is rising rapidly here in Spain.


----------



## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> I meant people *living* in the UK, but I knew that one was going to come bouncing back at me . In my defence I did say it was a generalisation.
> On the other hand it is a *fact* that far more convenience foods are bought in the UK than in Spain and the other fact is that consumption is rising rapidly here in Spain.


I know what you mean PW!!! I use convenience foods occasionally, mainly for my son who's a fussy eater, but not often! They really dont have the same range or quantities here. I wondered if its to do with the heat and the freezers as most ready meals/convenience food is frozen??? The choice is definitely not there tho and the stuff that is, isnt up to much. My son cant stand mercadonas chicken nuggets lol!!!! 

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> I know what you mean PW!!! I use convenience foods occasionally, mainly for my son who's a fussy eater, but not often! They really dont have the same range or quantities here. I wondered if its to do with the heat and the freezers as most ready meals/convenience food is frozen??? The choice is definitely not there tho and the stuff that is, isnt up to much. My son cant stand mercadonas chicken nuggets lol!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


I think in the past there wasn't that much demand for it 'cos i think the Spanish just think that cooking from fresh is the way to do it. Well, I think we all appreciate it's the healthier option, but life sometimes gets in the way of healthy options. Also, you're right, the ready meal stuff often isn't very good and I think that has influenced people's choice. 
But things are changing and many 20 - 30 smthings, like their British counterparts just don't know how to cook. I believe the convenience food market will swamp us, with all it's pros and cons, soon.


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> I think in the past there wasn't that much demand for it 'cos i think the Spanish just think that cooking from fresh is the way to do it. Well, I think we all appreciate it's the healthier option, but life sometimes gets in the way of healthy options. Also, you're right, the ready meal stuff often isn't very good and I think that has influenced people's choice.
> But things are changing and many 20 - 30 smthings, like their British counterparts just don't know how to cook. I believe the convenience food market will swamp us, with all it's pros and cons, soon.


has anyone tried Mercadona's ready prepared paellas & casserole type things from the chiller cabinet?

they were doing tastings in my local store a while ago & the ones I tried were actually very good

I don't buy them - the portions are very small for the price ( a bit like those ready made 'diet' meals which only have less calories/fats/whatever cos the portions are _tiny_) - you can still make the same from scratch for less euros


----------



## Weesy72

I am gluten intolerant so have to buy food that is "Sin Gluten" that sky rockets our food bills as the prices are high for bread €2.30 a loaf, cereal cornflakes €1.89 , pasta €2.39 for 500 g etc, saying that i think mercadona are beginning to realise the prices are high and our local shop has recently changed the provider of cereal which has knocked about 60 cents of a pack of cornflakes.
Most other stuff I have to go to a health food shop for and the prices are high.
I have written an article on living on a gluten free diet that is on "Barterpoint Murcia & Southern Spain" (google it)


----------



## gabriele

Hi, 

I can also buy Gluten free bread in the Longuera of Realejos Tenerife where I stay. It is called Dinkel Bread. Loaves similar shaped to French loaves or broad baguettes cost 80 Cents or so and a big square loaf which can be cut up for freezing costs euros 2,50. The latter seems to be more economical but less attractive, of course. We can also purchase Dinkel at the health shops in the same road to bake your own Gluten free Bread. Look out for that where you are...Also highly interesting is Kamut for your own baking and cooking without Gluten.


----------



## Jewel003

Do you have prices that are from this year 2010 ? Also, any thoughts on the prices of utility bills in the Costa blanca region, above Alicante ?

Would be a HUGE help !:clap2:

thx 





Stravinsky said:


> Groceries:
> 
> 12 large eggs €1.07
> Sardines in tomato, 4 x €1.56
> 8 lit bottle mineral water €1.84
> Muesli 750 gm €2.09
> 6 x 1 ltr skimmed milk - €6.30
> Tinned tuna 400 gms €3.75
> Flora marg 600 gms €2.30
> Gammon steak 340 gms €3.75
> 4 x Bifodus 0% fat yoghurts €0.95
> Coffee beans 500 gms €2.20
> Bunch of bananas €1.11
> 6 big apples €2.53
> 1 whole pineapple €2.10
> Crianza Rioja Red wine €3.95
> 300 gms mushrooms €1.00
> Bottle brandy 1 lit €7.45
> 750 gms sugar €1.60
> I litre orange juice €1.19
> 24 cans Mahou beer €9.66
> Oven Chips €1.85
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Car:
> Fuel: €1.05 diesel
> 10 w 40 Motor oil - 5 lit - €29.88


----------



## Guest

Jewel003 said:


> Do you have prices that are from this year 2010 ? Also, any thoughts on the prices of utility bills in the Costa blanca region, above Alicante ?
> 
> Would be a HUGE help !:clap2:
> 
> thx


We live at the Costa Blanca, north of Alicante. Your question is very difficult to answer! It depends so much where and what quality of products you will buy. Prices can vary quite a bit depending if you buy in Carrefour, Mercadona, Liddl, or at local markets. The price list from Stravinsky is from 2008, so in any case you should add the change in IVA, which did take place the 1. of July 2010. Otherwise I am not sure if there is so much change, since inflation rate was nearly negative in 2009 and there is not much in 2010. Also, in general, due to the crisis, people have no money, so if the shops want to sell something, they have to go down with the prices. There are many “offertas” such as buy two get the third one for free, etc.
I think a more reasonable way of looking at things would be asking: How much is the minimum you will more or less need for groceries, for a family of so and so much people, in a month. I mean upwards there is no limit, if you eat filet steak and lobster every day…. We are privileged in this sense and do not have to count this kind of things so exactly, but I have a couple friends, with no children, who told me they can get by with about 50-60 Euros a week for only groceries.
Concerning utilities it is the same problem. Will you live I a small flat with no central heating, or in a villa with all the high standard comfort and maybe even a swimming pool. For a three-bedroom apartment, I would count about 50 Euros a month of Electricity. If you have air condition and heating you can easily multiply this amount by three, depending on how careful you are with the use of this amenities. Water price is not in all towns the same, but (also for a three bedroom/ 3 people) I would count about between 40-50 Euros for a three month period. Gas is in most places with bottles, which are now about 12 Euros for one unit. If you use gas only for cooking and warm water one bottle should last for about 6 weeks. 
Hope this gives you a rough idea, Eva33


----------



## gabriele

*Cost of living in Spain is very individual*



Eva33 said:


> We live at the Costa Blanca, north of Alicante. Your question is very difficult to answer! It depends so much where and what quality of products you will buy. Prices can vary quite a bit depending if you buy in Carrefour, Mercadona, Liddl, or at local markets. The price list from Stravinsky is from 2008, so in any case you should add the change in IVA, which did take place the 1. of July 2010. Otherwise I am not sure if there is so much change, since inflation rate was nearly negative in 2009 and there is not much in 2010. Also, in general, due to the crisis, people have no money, so if the shops want to sell something, they have to go down with the prices. There are many “offertas” such as buy two get the third one for free, etc.
> I think a more reasonable way of looking at things would be asking: How much is the minimum you will more or less need for groceries, for a family of so and so much people, in a month. I mean upwards there is no limit, if you eat filet steak and lobster every day…. We are privileged in this sense and do not have to count this kind of things so exactly, but I have a couple friends, with no children, who told me they can get by with about 50-60 Euros a week for only groceries.
> Concerning utilities it is the same problem. Will you live I a small flat with no central heating, or in a villa with all the high standard comfort and maybe even a swimming pool. For a three-bedroom apartment, I would count about 50 Euros a month of Electricity. If you have air condition and heating you can easily multiply this amount by three, depending on how careful you are with the use of this amenities. Water price is not in all towns the same, but (also for a three bedroom/ 3 people) I would count about between 40-50 Euros for a three month period. Gas is in most places with bottles, which are now about 12 Euros for one unit. If you use gas only for cooking and warm water one bottle should last for about 6 weeks.
> Hope this gives you a rough idea, Eva33


Everything said is true. Cost of living depends more on more on individual life styles. Whereever you live in the world, by the way... 

There was a time, not even long ago, when I could get by with 35 Euros per month for groceries, vegetables and fruit. A change of diet was needed, all of a sudden. Hence, this pushed up the food bills of mine. 

By the way, we have a saying in German which is: Probieren geht ueber Studieren. This means translated that trying out something practically is worth much more than studying and researching the same topic.


----------



## Jewel003

Thanks Eva33,

I appreciate the info  





Eva33 said:


> We live at the Costa Blanca, north of Alicante. Your question is very difficult to answer! It depends so much where and what quality of products you will buy. Prices can vary quite a bit depending if you buy in Carrefour, Mercadona, Liddl, or at local markets. The price list from Stravinsky is from 2008, so in any case you should add the change in IVA, which did take place the 1. of July 2010. Otherwise I am not sure if there is so much change, since inflation rate was nearly negative in 2009 and there is not much in 2010. Also, in general, due to the crisis, people have no money, so if the shops want to sell something, they have to go down with the prices. There are many “offertas” such as buy two get the third one for free, etc.
> I think a more reasonable way of looking at things would be asking: How much is the minimum you will more or less need for groceries, for a family of so and so much people, in a month. I mean upwards there is no limit, if you eat filet steak and lobster every day…. We are privileged in this sense and do not have to count this kind of things so exactly, but I have a couple friends, with no children, who told me they can get by with about 50-60 Euros a week for only groceries.
> Concerning utilities it is the same problem. Will you live I a small flat with no central heating, or in a villa with all the high standard comfort and maybe even a swimming pool. For a three-bedroom apartment, I would count about 50 Euros a month of Electricity. If you have air condition and heating you can easily multiply this amount by three, depending on how careful you are with the use of this amenities. Water price is not in all towns the same, but (also for a three bedroom/ 3 people) I would count about between 40-50 Euros for a three month period. Gas is in most places with bottles, which are now about 12 Euros for one unit. If you use gas only for cooking and warm water one bottle should last for about 6 weeks.
> Hope this gives you a rough idea, Eva33


----------



## *Olivier*

Where I live in Asturias, most of the people can live well with 800 euro per month, The renting fee and the food are very cheap... but with that salary, I don't think they are able to save money...


----------



## Jordansmum

Wow this is a great and very long thread :clap2:

When over in Javea we always use the mercadona and iceland for little odd bits, markets i think are great for fruit and veg.
I think it is swings and roundabouts with shops in spain as is the same in the uk.

oh god can you get campbells meat balls in spain as my 6 year old eats nothing else:doh:

hugs Donna x


----------



## gabriele

*Campbells meat balls*



Jordansmum said:


> Wow this is a great and very long thread :clap2:
> 
> When over in Javea we always use the mercadona and iceland for little odd bits, markets i think are great for fruit and veg.
> I think it is swings and roundabouts with shops in spain as is the same in the uk.
> 
> oh god can you get campbells meat balls in spain as my 6 year old eats nothing else:doh:
> 
> hugs Donna x


Hi Donna, 

after having lived in beautiful Javea for a while in 2001, I don't remember having seen 
the Campbells meat balls. But, that is almost 10 years ago. What about making them yourself ? Good luck, dear...


----------



## gabriele

Hi Donna, 

here is the address for a manufacturer of such meatballs. Perhaps you can order them online...
Campbell's Welcome - SpaghettiO's®


----------



## Jordansmum

gabriele said:


> Hi Donna,
> 
> after having lived in beautiful Javea for a while in 2001, I don't remember having seen
> the Campbells meat balls. But, that is almost 10 years ago. What about making them yourself ? Good luck, dear...



Hi Gabriele mmmm i think i will have to try. if not i will have to write to iceland and make sure they start to stock them for me 
Donna x


----------



## xabiaxica

Jordansmum said:


> Hi Gabriele mmmm i think i will have to try. if not i will have to write to iceland and make sure they start to stock them for me
> Donna x


I can't say I've seen them!! 

the manager of Iceland has been known to get lines in when asked though!

we had a similar problem when we first moved here - my younger dd was 4 & would only eat English sausages - which were hard to come by & ridiculously pricey if you could find them at all!!

one day she tried some bread with alloli - loved it!!

from then on we just smothered everything in alloli & she ate it!!

she'll eat almost anything now - even some Spanish foods I just can't bring myself to eat!


----------



## gabriele

Hi Donna, 

I am puzzled about Iceland or is it Niceland? Is it a franchise? A week ago, I discovered a new (tiny) typically British shop by that name in Puerto de la Cruz opposite the British bookshop. I saw Lime juice there for a little over €1 and some English pudding. Sandra, the owner told me that she will try to import anything for her UK customers. But she is on Tenerife Island and sometimes the price for groceries may not warrant the effort.


----------



## jojo

gabriele said:


> Hi Donna,
> 
> I am puzzled about Iceland or is it Niceland? Is it a franchise? A week ago, I discovered a new (tiny) typically British shop by that name in Puerto de la Cruz opposite the British bookshop. I saw Lime juice there for a little over €1 and some English pudding. Sandra, the owner told me that she will try to import anything for her UK customers. But she is on Tenerife Island and sometimes the price for groceries may not warrant the effort.


There are several Icelands across the costas I believe. I think they're franchises but they sell all UK, Iceland and Waitrose products! Not too dear either

jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

gabriele said:


> Hi Donna,
> 
> I am puzzled about Iceland or is it Niceland? Is it a franchise? A week ago, I discovered a new (tiny) typically British shop by that name in Puerto de la Cruz opposite the British bookshop. I saw Lime juice there for a little over €1 and some English pudding. Sandra, the owner told me that she will try to import anything for her UK customers. But she is on Tenerife Island and sometimes the price for groceries may not warrant the effort.


the Iceland near us is run by Overseas foods - here's their website

OVERSEAS.ES

not a franchise of the UK Iceland apparently - more what the MD calls a 'working partnership'

apparently they do have stores on Tenerife but neither of them look tiny!


----------



## Alcalaina

*Costa coffee?*

I do love the fact that you can get a decent cup of _cafe con leche_ anywhere in Spain and it will always be the same - small, hot and strong [urge to make comparison with young Spanish males successfully resisted, NB] - even on railway and bus stations! So different to the cardboard bucket of brown liquid I paid £2.80 for at Victoria coach station recently.

In our village in southwest Andalucia, in the local bars and cafes, everything is a euro:- coffee, a _caña_ of beer,_ tinto verano_, can of Coke, bottle of agua con gas, fino sherry ... Spirits are more of course, and if you drink the good Rioja that can cost up to 2 euros (!) On the Costa de la Luz the seafront bars charge more, but only 1.20 usually.

What do these things cost in the rest of Spain? Am I just particularly lucky? A friend reported paying 8 euros for two beers and a coke in Salamanca last year.


----------



## jojo

Alcalaina said:


> I do love the fact that you can get a decent cup of _cafe con leche_ anywhere in Spain and it will always be the same - small, hot and strong [urge to make comparison with young Spanish males successfully resisted, NB] - even on railway and bus stations! So different to the cardboard bucket of brown liquid I paid £2.80 for at Victoria coach station recently.
> 
> In our village in southwest Andalucia, in the local bars and cafes, everything is a euro:- coffee, a _caña_ of beer,_ tinto verano_, can of Coke, bottle of agua con gas, fino sherry ... Spirits are more of course, and if you drink the good Rioja that can cost up to 2 euros (!) On the Costa de la Luz the seafront bars charge more, but only 1.20 usually.
> 
> What do these things cost in the rest of Spain? Am I just particularly lucky? A friend reported paying 8 euros for two beers and a coke in Salamanca last year.



The cost is about the same where I am, 1€ - 1,50€ for coffees and soft drinks. Moe expensive on the costas, but I guess thats to be expected!!??

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> I do love the fact that you can get a decent cup of _cafe con leche_ anywhere in Spain and it will always be the same - small, hot and strong [urge to make comparison with young Spanish males successfully resisted, NB] - even on railway and bus stations! So different to the cardboard bucket of brown liquid I paid £2.80 for at Victoria coach station recently.
> 
> In our village in southwest Andalucia, in the local bars and cafes, everything is a euro:- coffee, a _caña_ of beer,_ tinto verano_, can of Coke, bottle of agua con gas, fino sherry ... Spirits are more of course, and if you drink the good Rioja that can cost up to 2 euros (!) On the Costa de la Luz the seafront bars charge more, but only 1.20 usually.
> 
> What do these things cost in the rest of Spain? Am I just particularly lucky? A friend reported paying 8 euros for two beers and a coke in Salamanca last year.


I'm not sure, but I will commit myself to doing a survey over the next week!!

Last night I went out , (see my post in the Spanish sentence thread about estar de Rodriguez) but didn't work out how much each item cost.

I have just come back from my "beloved" WSM and was disgusted by the coffee. I usually just stick to tea when I'm over there, but I suddenly wanted coffee. You can only get latte, mocha, capuccino etc etc yuck yuck yuck until, in a pub, someone offered "regular coffee" which turned out to be what was known years ago as filter coffee. That did the trick!


----------



## oakisland

*Cost of living inquiry*

We're doing lots of research on Spain living since we're planning to retire there,
from what we've read, a retire couple can live very well on a rented apt. fully furnished in a very nice complex w/a pool and amenities such as a/c & heating for about 450. to 500. euros @ mo. plus utilities, adding all other expenses & some entertaiment as eating out a few times @ wk. on the "menu del dia" menu, medical supplement, maybe a small car rental for short trips to town, on a coastal area but a bit away off the beaten path, for about 2,000.00 euros @ months?
My Husband is Italian born & I'm Spanish both USA citizens. so that's a plus, we've been to Spain many times...love it!
And what about the different areas such as costa blanca; costa calida, I like the Murcia area, torrevieja. 

Can anyone give me some insight to the above? Thank you!


----------



## Guest

oakisland said:


> We're doing lots of research on Spain living since we're planning to retire there,
> from what we've read, a retire couple can live very well on a rented apt. fully furnished in a very nice complex w/a pool and amenities such as a/c & heating for about 450. to 500. euros @ mo. plus utilities, adding all other expenses & some entertaiment as eating out a few times @ wk. on the "menu del dia" menu, medical supplement, maybe a small car rental for short trips to town, on a coastal area but a bit away off the beaten path, for about 2,000.00 euros @ months?
> My Husband is Italian born & I'm Spanish both USA citizens. so that's a plus, we've been to Spain many times...love it!
> And what about the different areas such as costa blanca; costa calida, I like the Murcia area, torrevieja.
> 
> 
> Can anyone give me some insight to the above? Thank you!



I live in the Costa Blanca, north of Benidorm. To me 450 to 500 euros @ month seems a little short for what you are describing (fully furnished in a very nice complex w/a pool and amenities such as a/c & heating). Also if you plan to eat out a few times a week in decent restaurants it can become more expensive. But if you choose a more modest apartment you should be able to live on 2000 Euros a month over here. Many have to do with less. But do not expect a luxury life for this amount of money.


----------



## xabiaxica

Eva33 said:


> I live in the Costa Blanca, north of Benidorm. To me 450 to 500 euros @ month seems a little short for what you are describing (fully furnished in a very nice complex w/a pool and amenities such as a/c & heating). Also if you plan to eat out a few times a week in decent restaurants it can become more expensive. But if you choose a more modest apartment you should be able to live on 2000 Euros a month over here. Many have to do with less. But do not expect a luxury life for this amount of money.


agree - where I live you might get a studio in a block with no pool for that money


you'll get a bit more if you go to Oliva for example - but that still probably wouldn't get a pool


however, as you say, 2000 euros a month for 2 people in more modest accom should be quite easily doable


----------



## Alcalaina

I too think you're being a bit optimistic. We live comfortably in the Sierra de Cadiz on about 1800 a month but we own our house outright, don't have a pool, aircon or health insurance, and only eat out once or twice a month.


----------



## oakisland

*cost of living*

Hi Alcalaina:

Thank you for the reply, I don't mean a luxury complex but a nice one, I went by the long-term rentals I see online, most of them are fully furnished w/pool & a/c, I also realize that the eating out it's a a few times a wk. that will add to the expenses.

Thanks again,
oakisland


----------



## xchaotic

Eva33 said:


> I live in the Costa Blanca, north of Benidorm. To me 450 to 500 euros @ month seems a little short for what you are describing (fully furnished in a very nice complex w/a pool and amenities such as a/c & heating). Also if you plan to eat out a few times a week in decent restaurants it can become more expensive. But if you choose a more modest apartment you should be able to live on 2000 Euros a month over here. Many have to do with less. But do not expect a luxury life for this amount of money.


Seeing that you're pretty familiar with utility prices...

How much can the gas or electricity be in the winter months?
We're moving with a toddler, so we'd rather keep him warm...

When renting, how much more are the bills going to be when choosing a house over a flat?
It seems that in such a warm climate, getting a house is a no brainer?


----------



## xabiaxica

xchaotic said:


> Seeing that you're pretty familiar with utility prices...
> 
> How much can the gas or electricity be in the winter months?
> We're moving with a toddler, so we'd rather keep him warm...
> 
> When renting, how much more are the bills going to be when choosing a house over a flat?
> It seems that in such a warm climate, getting a house is a no brainer?


you'd think so wouldn't you?

we've rented houses before - a villa in the sticks & a townhouse (3 storey terraced), both with central heating/aircon- but eventually moved into an apartment for various reasons

our utility bills are tremendously lower in the apartment - central heating & aircon here too - so direct comparison is possible

I would mostly put it down to the insulation from all sides - it's cooler in the summer & warmer in the winter

it's a modern building too & not damp - I think more due to being south facing that anything else - the townhouse was also very modern but not south facing & freezing in the winter & dreadfully damp - impossible to keep heated but cool in the summer


----------



## xchaotic

xabiachica said:


> our utility bills are tremendously lower in the apartment


What I've seen so far confirms what you're saying - the apartments are usually very new.
The only house I've looked at so far had central heating installed, I guess I know why, but it was very cool inside without AC even in the middle of the summer...

On the other hand none of the flats that I have looked at had any sort of heating - they were clearly aimed at the summer tourist.
I know I could just put a gas or electric heater in the middle of the roo, but as an afterthought it wouldn't look too nice, be bulky, in the way and possibly dangerous to my toddler...

So I'm still torn about this, especially since, like I said - what would have spent on heating the house in the winter, I could recoup by not using or using less AC in the summer...

In your particular case were the differences a €100 per month or more like 200?
Are there any other bills I should consider? I noticed there's a rubbish collection bill too...


----------



## xabiaxica

xchaotic said:


> What I've seen so far confirms what you're saying - the apartments are usually very new.
> The only house I've looked at so far had central heating installed, I guess I know why, but it was very cool inside without AC even in the middle of the summer...
> 
> On the other hand none of the flats that I have looked at had any sort of heating - they were clearly aimed at the summer tourist.
> I know I could just put a gas or electric heater in the middle of the roo, but as an afterthought it wouldn't look too nice, be bulky, in the way and possibly dangerous to my toddler...
> 
> So I'm still torn about this, especially since, like I said - what would have spent on heating the house in the winter, I could recoup by not using or using less AC in the summer...
> 
> In your particular case were the differences a €100 per month or more like 200?
> Are there any other bills I should consider? I noticed there's a rubbish collection bill too...


if you're renting rubbish collection will usually be up to the owner to pay - or hidden/included in the monthly rental

when we first came we rented an apartment which wasn't hearted & bought a gas heater - it really wasn't that big or ugly & actually did manage to heat the entire apartment

tbh - in many areas & properties you'll need both heating & aircon/fans

it can get VERY hot in summer & VERY cold/damp in winter

comparing bills from the townhouse & the apartment I reckon we save around 100-150 a month spread throughout the year


can't remember in the house - but we were never cool enough in summer nor warm enough in winter!


----------



## Alcalaina

xabiachica said:


> can't remember in the house - but we were never cool enough in summer nor warm enough in winter!


We have a 3-bed detached house in Cadiz, where the average daytime temperature in winter is about 14 degrees C, with afternoon temperatures up to 20, and at night it rarely drops below 5.

The house built 25 years ago and although the walls are thick it does get _very_ cold in winter. 

Our electricity bills over the winter average about 150 euros a month and we buy a propane bottle for the gas fire (10 euros) about once a fortnight during December, January and February.

The rest of the year we average about 60 euros a month for electricity, but we don't have aircon. We get a new gas bottle every six weeks or so for cooking and hot water.

Our rubbish charge is about 6 euros a month but that depends on your locality.


----------



## xchaotic

Thanks for such a detailed breakdown. It doesn't look that bad actually. I guess it depends on the individual house.


----------



## jojo

xchaotic said:


> Thanks for such a detailed breakdown. It doesn't look that bad actually. I guess it depends on the individual house.


As a rule of thumb (not including rent) I would say that the utility costs for running a house are about the same as you would pay in the UK!

Jo xxx


----------



## Pip84

Hi, as my wife is on a secondment from the UK we get a Cost of Living adjustment and when we first came 4 years ago it was not much at all, just a few hundred quid, the last update we had (it's adjusted every 6 months) was in excess of £8000 in our favour, in other words according to the 'basket of goods' they use to measure the difference in cost of living between UK and Spain indicated that it is in excess of £8k per year more expensive to live in Spain! That is a massive increase in a short period of time.

My first caveat to this comment is that I don't know what goes into the 'basket of good', I am sure it's noted somewhere as the 'basket of goods' used for the Retail Price Index is in the UK, but if cars for example are included then it's no wonder the scaler tip against Spain, cars are very expensive here.

Secondly, as I am sure most people feel this way, if you really try and fit in with the local way of life then you can find the best places to shop and get the best deals you can. For example if you go to the local hypermarkets and only shop in the 'British goods' aisles, then of course it's gonna cost you more, but supporting and frequenting some of the smaller local (well used Spanish) shops then your shopping bills will be less.

Long and the sort of it though these days is that it is nowhere near as cheap as before and you can't afford to be too blazee about what you're spending just because it's different money and not worth the same - keep your eye on the exchange rate!


----------



## dream on

*Cost of living!*



Alcalaina said:


> I too think you're being a bit optimistic. We live comfortably in the Sierra de Cadiz on about 1800 a month but we own our house outright, don't have a pool, aircon or health insurance, and only eat out once or twice a month.


Excuse my interrupting, but as I have to survive on less than £600 a month in the U.K. (my house is paid for, but we do eat out now and then tho' very cheaply) can I take it that my chances of moving somewhere warmer to finish my days (I retired this year) is even more of a dream than I imagined?!!


----------



## Alcalaina

dream on said:


> Excuse my interrupting, but as I have to survive on less than £600 a month in the U.K. (my house is paid for, but we do eat out now and then tho' very cheaply) can I take it that my chances of moving somewhere warmer to finish my days (I retired this year) is even more of a dream than I imagined?!!


Not impossible, after all millions of Spanish old-age pensioners do it! You are a bit vulnerable to exchange rate fluctuations though, unless you can convert a lump sum into euros before you arrive.


----------



## dream on

Alcalaina said:


> Not impossible, after all millions of Spanish old-age pensioners do it! You are a bit vulnerable to exchange rate fluctuations though, unless you can convert a lump sum into euros before you arrive.


Thanks for that! I won't give up hope altogether yet then!


----------



## Alcalaina

dream on said:


> Thanks for that! I won't give up hope altogether yet then!


No, don't! We could actually live happily on less, but we spend far too much money on books, and a lot on petrol because we are 50 km from the coast and the nearest big shops.


----------



## Guest

Living costs in Spain have risen dramatically this last ten years. For people on a fixed income, such as pensioners, it has been very difficult. I can remember when we got 1.60 Euros to the pound and then it went down to approx even. 1 to 1. We lost one third of our income. Many found it difficult and returned to the UK only to find that despite paying NI and Income Tax for fifity years ( as in my case) they were not entitled to free health or any benefits until they has served a habitaion period. There are places in Spain where pensioners can get help. I believe all avenues must be checked before the cost and troubles of returning to a country that still has the reasons you left there in the first place A country that believes in giving pensioners a pension that they admit is on the poverty line. The only way a pensioner can exist in the UK is by accepting benefits galore. I, for one, will manage without demeaning myself in asking for handouts.


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## Pesky Wesky

*Colt;376351]Living costs in Spain have risen dramatically this last ten years. For people on a fixed income, such as pensioners, it has been very difficult. I can remember when we got 1.60 Euros to the pound and then it went down to approx even. 1 to 1.* 

Ah the good ol' days! I too remember 1.60, I think even 1.65. Actually, not such good days 'cos my income's in Euros!!

BTW I did do coffee price research and found coffee at prices from 1.20 (served with mini croissants!!) to 1.40 (served without a smile!!) 4 bars with not more than 5 mins between them.
Went to Madrid the other day and got charged 2.40!!! It's a pretty well known place though, and we were there for 1hr 45 mins (bookclub).


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## Guest

Theres a place in Javea Port that charges one euro for everything, a coffee, a beer, a brandy, a tostado. By the dolphin roundabout.


----------



## Alcalaina

*Cost of fruit and veg*

Having purchased four carrier bags full of lovely fresh fruit and veg at my local greengrocer this morning for a total cost of €11.92, I did a quick check on Sainsburys Online to see comparative costs in the UK now. I took the cheapest option, e.g. loose carrots rather than pre-packed or organic. 

The total cost was £13.34 - compared to the equivalent of about £10 in Spain; around 27% higher! 

Sainsburys prices, for info:

Large bunch of Swiss chard £1.50
500g carrots £0.40
250g mushrooms £0.62
500g plum tomatoes £1.49
3 medium leeks (500g) £1.30
2 enormous red peppers	£1.44
5 heads of garlic £1.50
2 large nectarines	£1.00
2 oranges £0.80
500g pears £1.00
4 limes £1.20
1 large avocado £0.99


----------



## Guest

dream on said:


> Excuse my interrupting, but as I have to survive on less than £600 a month in the U.K. (my house is paid for, but we do eat out now and then tho' very cheaply) can I take it that my chances of moving somewhere warmer to finish my days (I retired this year) is even more of a dream than I imagined?!!


My wife amd I have a combined income of (at the present rate of exchage) on about 1400 Euros a month. We have a pool but are on the Spanish NI system.
We eat out rarely but enjoy a reasonable life style although we do have to take care. Our TV is on cable for which we pay about 23 euros a month. I am hoping for some decent royalties for my book but as they pay three months in arreas and only twice a year it won't amount to much this Oct. (unless of course you all buy a book) A Time for Living by Colt --- I need the money for a haircut !!!


----------



## jojo

Colt said:


> My wife amd I have a combined income of (at the present rate of exchage) on about 1400 Euros a month. We have a pool but are on the Spanish NI system.
> We eat out rarely but enjoy a reasonable life style although we do have to take care. Our TV is on cable for which we pay about 23 euros a month. I am hoping for some decent royalties for my book but as they pay three months in arreas and only twice a year it won't amount to much this Oct. (unless of course you all buy a book) A Time for Living by Colt --- I need the money for a haircut !!!


I'll let you off this once, but you cant advertise on the forum, if you do it again, I'll have to send the boys round LOL 

Jo xx


----------



## Alcalaina

jojo said:


> I'll let you off this once, but you cant advertise on the forum, if you do it again, I'll have to send the boys round LOL
> 
> Jo xx


Aw come on Jo, have a heart - this isn't really advertising, just useful information!

The book looks great and if I had any spare pocket money I would buy it, but I have to ration myself these days.


----------



## xabiaxica

Alcalaina said:


> Aw come on Jo, have a heart - this isn't really advertising, just useful information!
> 
> The book looks great and if I had any spare pocket money I would buy it, but I have to ration myself these days.


ah but if we let one..............................


----------



## Guest

I stand rebuked. Well you really can't blame me can you??? Reading back it was definitely a plug and I have been a naughty boy. It will not happen again.

This morning I had my usual coffee and brandy down the Port and then along to Benitachell to the swimming baths there. Beautiful warm water. a pleasant atmosphere, (I worked on my lap top whilst my wife swam.) At 2,70 a time it's goof value. 20 for a month for as much as you like.


Colt


----------



## dream on

Colt said:


> Living costs in Spain have risen dramatically this last ten years. For people on a fixed income, such as pensioners, it has been very difficult. I can remember when we got 1.60 Euros to the pound and then it went down to approx even. 1 to 1. We lost one third of our income. Many found it difficult and returned to the UK only to find that despite paying NI and Income Tax for fifity years ( as in my case) they were not entitled to free health or any benefits until they has served a habitaion period. There are places in Spain where pensioners can get help. I believe all avenues must be checked before the cost and troubles of returning to a country that still has the reasons you left there in the first place A country that believes in giving pensioners a pension that they admit is on the poverty line. The only way a pensioner can exist in the UK is by accepting benefits galore. I, for one, will manage without demeaning myself in asking for handouts.


This country taxes me on a paltry income of £140 a week in pensions! We have central heating we can't afford to turn on, and it's cold nine months of the year here. The older you get the more you feel the cold, hence wanting to move somewhere warmer where it's acceptable to live simpler.


----------



## Alcalaina

dream on said:


> This country taxes me on a paltry income of £140 a week in pensions! We have central heating we can't afford to turn on, and it's cold nine months of the year here. The older you get the more you feel the cold, hence wanting to move somewhere warmer where it's acceptable to live simpler.


Come on over then, before the English winter sets in!

It's 26 degrees here today in Cadiz and the skies are blue ...


----------



## Guest

SteveHall said:


> Colt. Hi. The next Mario Vargas Llosa? Interesting choice for the Nobel Prize and much "discussion" in the culture pages here today.


I don'y think we can go as far as that Steve, but thanks for the thought. Interesting site !!!


Colt

url removed


----------



## Stravinsky

*This is the cost of living sticky. *


----------



## Alcalaina

Stravinsky said:


> *This is the cost of living sticky. *


Isn´t the cost of books in Spain outrageous? €22,50 for a paperback edition of La Tia Julia y el Escribador by that wonderful Nobel Prizewinning author Mario Vargas Llosa ...

I read it in English years ago and now want to read it the original - but I guess I´ll have to get it out of the library.

It´s cheaper to buy English books on Amazon and have them shipped than it is to buy Spanish books in Spain.


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## Pesky Wesky

*supermarket price comparison*

Another place to look at up to date price comparisons.
Observatorio de Precios - Presentacion
I've translated the basics, but the rest is up to you!!!

p { margin-bottom: 0.21cm; } ESTE OBSERVATORIO SE BASA EXCLUSIVAMENTE EN EL ESTUDIO DE LA COMPARACIÓN DE PRECIOS SIN VALORAR OTRAS VARIABLES COMO PUEDEN SER: ATENCIÓN AL CLIENTE, SITUACIÓN, VARIEDAD DE LA OFERTA, ETC.


This survey is based exclusively on price comparison and does not take in to account other variables such as customer service, location, product range etc


Los índices de precios son sobre base 100,
por tanto el más bajo es 100.
Por ejemplo: un índice 105 significa un 5% más caro.


The price index has been made on a base of 100, so the lowest price is 100, and 105 for example, means 5% more expensive.


General info about the site

If you click on the circle you get to a map showing the location of the supermarkets


The red arrow shows the most expensive place and the green arrow the cheapest.


If you click where it says _*resultados*_ it gives all the establishments included in the study for a given area in a list


----------



## Guest

*Bargains*

This morning I went to Eroski in Ondara. I bought the following

Packet of Corn Flakes 69 cents
One pair of winter trousers 1 Euro
One cardigan 1 Euro
One sleveless winter coat 1 Euro
One pullover 1 Euro
One packet yogurt 60 cents

Not bad for a mornings shopping

Colt


----------



## papaco95

*Moving to Rota (Retired from the US)*

Hi I want to thank you for your up to date notes and Spain food/ groceries prices. My husband and I are moving to Rota although my husband is from Spain we are retiring there this dec. What do you think? Bad move or a hassle? Boy I miss the exchange being in our favor hahha. But its all good. 
Grateful


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## Alcalaina

papaco95 said:


> Hi I want to thank you for your up to date notes and Spain food/ groceries prices. My husband and I are moving to Rota although my husband is from Spain we are retiring there this dec. What do you think? Bad move or a hassle? Boy I miss the exchange being in our favor hahha. But its all good.
> Grateful


All good! It´s a beautiful area, I live not to far from Rota.

How about you start a new thread about your move? This one is meant to be about the cost of things generally, and I´m sure we are going to go off track.


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## mazlester

Stravinsky said:


> Groceries:
> 
> 12 large eggs €1.07
> Sardines in tomato, 4 x €1.56
> 8 lit bottle mineral water €1.84
> Muesli 750 gm €2.09
> 6 x 1 ltr skimmed milk - €6.30
> Tinned tuna 400 gms €3.75
> Flora marg 600 gms €2.30
> Gammon steak 340 gms €3.75
> 4 x Bifodus 0% fat yoghurts €0.95
> Coffee beans 500 gms €2.20
> Bunch of bananas €1.11
> 6 big apples €2.53
> 1 whole pineapple €2.10
> Crianza Rioja Red wine €3.95
> 300 gms mushrooms €1.00
> Bottle brandy 1 lit €7.45
> 750 gms sugar €1.60
> I litre orange juice €1.19
> 24 cans Mahou beer €9.66
> Oven Chips €1.85
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Car:
> Fuel: €1.05 diesel
> 10 w 40 Motor oil - 5 lit - €29.88


What about LPG please?


----------



## gus-lopez

mazlester said:


> What about LPG please?


For a car ? You'll have to hunt around for that. 
The Butane gas cylinders, 12kgs are 12,79€ . This price is regulated & set by the government.
35kg are 52,30€ This price is unregulated.


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## Pesky Wesky

mazlester said:


> What about LPG please?


AArrrgggh.
The dreaded text speak!!
What is LPG? Litres per Gallon??!!


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> AArrrgggh.
> The dreaded text speak!!
> What is LPG? Litres per Gallon??!!


Liquid petroleum gas. It´s not text speak, it´s a bona fide acronym!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Liquid petroleum gas. It´s not text speak, it´s a bona fide acronym!


Beg your pardon. It's not a term I'm familiar with and as there have been a couple of threads about netspeak, nettiquette, texting etc...


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## mazlester

Alcalaina said:


> Liquid petroleum gas. It´s not text speak, it´s a bona fide acronym!


Yep you're quite ringht Alcaina, it does and they actually sell it in Spain and wha's even better news is that there's a Garage in Murcia! I've managed to find out on 'AutoGas map of Spain' on Google. We're considering of getting our LHD car converted to LPG as it's usually half the price of petrol.

Maria


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## mazlester

mazlester said:


> Yep you're quite ringht Alcaina, it does and they actually sell it in Spain and wha's even better news is that there's a Garage in Murcia! I've managed to find out on 'AutoGas map of Spain' on Google. We're considering of getting our LHD car converted to LPG as it's usually half the price of petrol.
> 
> Maria


Sorry spelling mistake - Al Calaina!!! Do apologise!


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## Alcalaina

mazlester said:


> Sorry spelling mistake - Al Calaina!!! So apologise!


No worries - I live in a little town called Alcalá, and female residents are known as Alcalainas.


----------



## Guest

It's always best to shop round a little to get the best bargains in food. Strange as it may sound you can get some really good ones from shops like Supercor, which is recognised normally as an expensive shop.When they have bargains , they are bargains. Other places are good too. This morning
12 cans of beer 3 Euros
Cornflakes 1,05
Oranges 1 Euro per kilo
Apples 99 cents a kilo
Bananas 79 cents a Kilo
Strawberries 2,50 a kilo.
and the list goes on.

Colt the Author


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## xchaotic

Colt said:


> 12 cans of beer 3 Euros
> Cornflakes 1,05
> Oranges 1 Euro per kilo
> Apples 99 cents a kilo
> Bananas 79 cents a Kilo
> Strawberries 2,50 a kilo.


Sounds like a decent diet 
Other than beer of course, I'd get them on the market.
Same price or less but better vibe.


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## Mendel

Spain is one of the best places to leave compared to other places,however the area of Spain that you decide to live in will determine what price you pay for rent, electric, telephone bills, and gas. If you decide on a rural area the prices will be less than a city. The cost of living is not as cheap as it was in the 1970s and 1980s.


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## Stravinsky

Mendel said:


> Spain is one of the best places to leave compared to other places,however the area of Spain that you decide to live in will determine what price you pay for rent, electric, telephone bills, and gas. If you decide on a rural area the prices will be less than a city. The cost of living is not as cheap as it was in the 1970s and 1980s.


How do you know Mendel, you dont live here


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## anski

I relocated to Tenerife from Cyprus 2 months ago. During the year I lived in Cyprus I kept a detailed account of expenses & was surprised to see my annual heating bill was no different in Cyprus with (solar & water & central heating provided free from the rays of the sun + oil central heating ) to what it cost to heat to 22c EVERY room in my house in New Zealand & provide me with unlimited hot water = €1,300 a year. So much for free solar energy!
However in Tenerife the climate is better I live in the Orotava Valley which is sheltered not sure about the inside temperature of where you live right now but her in my house it is 24c without any form of heating & I am sitting in a sleeveless top. We lived in Malaga in 2000 & found the summers extremely hot & the winters freezing. Not the case here.
As for food costs much cheaper here than Cyprus as far as groceries & eating out. Nescafe coffee in Cyprus was €3-€4 great coffee here €1, had 3 course menu for €7.95 Tuna salad, Steak chip & salad, Ice Cream, coffee & 500ml vino tinto plus bread at lovely restaurant just off Plaza de Charco last week.
Filled car up today 84cents litre used to pay €1.18 in Cyprus

Happy in Tenerife


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## jojo

anski said:


> I relocated to Tenerife from Cyprus 2 months ago. During the year I lived in Cyprus I kept a detailed account of expenses & was surprised to see my annual heating bill was no different in Cyprus with (solar & water & central heating provided free from the rays of the sun + oil central heating ) to what it cost to heat to 22c EVERY room in my house in New Zealand & provide me with unlimited hot water = €1,300 a year. So much for free solar energy!
> However in Tenerife the climate is better I live in the Orotava Valley which is sheltered not sure about the inside temperature of where you live right now but her in my house it is 24c without any form of heating & I am sitting in a sleeveless top. We lived in Malaga in 2000 & found the summers extremely hot & the winters freezing. Not the case here.
> As for food costs much cheaper here than Cyprus as far as groceries & eating out. Nescafe coffee in Cyprus was €3-€4 great coffee here €1, had 3 course menu for €7.95 Tuna salad, Steak chip & salad, Ice Cream, coffee & 500ml vino tinto plus bread at lovely restaurant just off Plaza de Charco last week.
> Filled car up today 84cents litre used to pay €1.18 in Cyprus
> 
> Happy in Tenerife



I'm jealous, the mainland of Spain is more expensive and it seems requires more heasting in winter and cooling in summer!!!!

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina

jojo said:


> I'm jealous, the mainland of Spain is more expensive and it seems requires more heasting in winter and cooling in summer!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Petrol on the mainland is about 1.19 a litre! Why is it so much cheaper in Las Canarias? Is it because of the lower IVA?


----------



## jojo

Alcalaina said:


> Petrol on the mainland is about 1.19 a litre! Why is it so much cheaper in Las Canarias? Is it because of the lower IVA?


...... and rising sharply at the moment?

Jo xxx


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## thrax

It's 1.25 a litre here in Nerja although cheaper at Eroski. We are still quite fresh from the UK so we can remember the prices we had to pay back there and where we are in Spain food is a lot cheaper than the UK. And alcohol is far cheaper, which is worrying my liver.


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## gabriele

Iva is IGIC in the Canary Islands and it is less. 

But what is really different is that certain things don't carry luxury tax. That's what makes holidays in Tenerife a real proposition when you send such stuff home by post... Ha! Without guaranty that it always slips through custom in the UK. Mind liquor could break.

Petrol is produced or lets say refined right at the doorsteps of the capital Santa Cruz which may be another reason for cheaper cost.


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## anski

Gabrielle, Thanks for answering the question about why petrol costs less here.
Went to Malaga & Seville recently & was horrified at how expensive it was compared to here. Taxi at Malaga airport to our hotel & one closest to the airport we were charged €20 because "the driver said "minimum charge Saturday night"
Also in Malaga parked near Picasso museum on road & as had been the case when we lived there in 2000 a man ran up to us I offered him €1 to which he said "no it now costs €4, needless to say I only had €20 note which he whipped out of my hand with the words "I will bring the change back" Like hell he did I was taken by surprise & we spent 15 minutes looking for him, if found I think my husband would have beaten it out of him!
Taxi drivers here in the north are honest we often walk into town & get the taxi back 2km uphill, never more than €3 & one even sang to us.
As for heating although we have an open fireplace house inside at night is pleasant 20-22c without any heating. It will be a cheap winter!
Would have preferred to live on mainland (for various reasons) but the extreme heat of summers & cold of winter put us off. We used to live in Canillas de Albaida (Malaga) & got extremes but I know other places are worse.
Eating out was more expensive in Spain than here also.


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## gabriele

*Petrol prices in Spain and Tenerife and more differences*

It's scary to notice what is happening in Spain or anywhere in Europe nowadays. 
You think that you are watching something unreal or far fetched on TV and feel like you should be waking up or just should change channels. 
Contrasts are so big. There is the good, the bad and the ugly like in the Clint Eastwood movie, almost. In the end life goes on.















anski said:


> Gabrielle, Thanks for answering the question about why petrol costs less here.
> Went to Malaga & Seville recently & was horrified at how expensive it was compared to here. Taxi at Malaga airport to our hotel & one closest to the airport we were charged €20 because "the driver said "minimum charge Saturday night"
> Also in Malaga parked near Picasso museum on road & as had been the case when we lived there in 2000 a man ran up to us I offered him €1 to which he said "no it now costs €4, needless to say I only had €20 note which he whipped out of my hand with the words "I will bring the change back" Like hell he did I was taken by surprise & we spent 15 minutes looking for him, if found I think my husband would have beaten it out of him!
> Taxi drivers here in the north are honest we often walk into town & get the taxi back 2km uphill, never more than €3 & one even sang to us.
> As for heating although we have an open fireplace house inside at night is pleasant 20-22c without any heating. It will be a cheap winter!
> Would have preferred to live on mainland (for various reasons) but the extreme heat of summers & cold of winter put us off. We used to live in Canillas de Albaida (Malaga) & got extremes but I know other places are worse.
> Eating out was more expensive in Spain than here also.


----------



## bob_bob

I took early pension due to medical problems (Arthritis) and have become a regular on the easyjet and ryanair web sites booking cheap as chip flights and going here and there in Spain, Cyprus and Gran Canaria. My original plan was to rent a place long term and rent out my place in the UK but I'm having second thoughts now.

There is no doubt that prices have shot up in Europe as a whole due to inflation and of course the strength of the pound has cut down our buying power with such a poor exchange rate  Looking at food prices in Spain it seems they are a lot higher than the UK but dependant on what food you buy. Cook like a local and the prices are OK, eat like a brit with brit branded food and you pay through the nose.

I really am confused now; my best option would perhaps be to rent somewhere for three or four months of the year?


----------



## gabriele

Knowing bone problems like arthritis I would opt for a warmer climate over the 3 or 4 of the coldest winter months. It also depends if you live by yourself or with spouse or partner. It is a little easier to shop for one person. (Exceptions granted)
Anyway, it is better to eat simple food like fiber rich vegetables, beans, potatoes with skin and of course fruit which are cheaper in Tenerife, I find. Ufortunately, the locals in Spain are eating much rubbish, nowadays. There wouldn't be so many overweight people around, otherwise. Above all such young people seem to become the norm. 

One the other hand, we shouldn't forget that one cannot easily put a price tag to quality of life. I don't have a regular medical aid but only a private Spanish one which is rising very much the older I get. Sometimes I wonder if it wasn't better to go back to my home country which offers a better medical solution for me. On the other hand, I am still holding on to a good climate place, while confident that I will be able to make enough money with one or more websites. My first is not doing bad at all. So that is an incentive to work a bit harder and to try a different topic approach. But there are days, when I am most probably just as confused as you are.


----------



## Alcalaina

bob_bob said:


> Cook like a local and the prices are OK, eat like a brit with brit branded food and you pay through the nose.


Very true! And so much healthier too.

I've just heard on the radio about German "liquid egg product" used to make supermarket quiche containing toxic levels of dioxins - yuck!


----------



## MaidenScotland

It is easy to live cheaply when you don't have children.. 3 children take a lot of feeding and then of course there is always the days when they have friends over, Yes they do get some treats in the form of sweets etc but they do not have processed food my son in law cooks everything from scratch but I was astonished the weekly shopping bill for my daughter.


----------



## bob_bob

My children have flown the nest and I'm divorced so in real terms the cost of food is not that great really. I'm (all modesty aside) a good cook, don't do junk food. In truth and being honest with myself I suspect I'm just not ready to sell my home and move full time abroad and will stick to the option of living in rented accommodation abroad for a few months of the year in different locations.

Today I got a return flight to Faro in Portugal (only going for a long weekend) for about £12 more than the cost of a Cardiff to London Train ticket, its a crazy world we live in.


----------



## jojo

bob_bob said:


> My children have flown the nest and I'm divorced so in real terms the cost of food is not that great really. I'm (all modesty aside) a good cook, don't do junk food. In truth and being honest with myself I suspect I'm just not ready to sell my home and move full time abroad and will stick to the option of living in rented accommodation abroad for a few months of the year in different locations.
> 
> Today I got a return flight to Faro in Portugal (only going for a long weekend) for about £12 more than the cost of a Cardiff to London Train ticket, its a crazy world we live in.



That sounds a good plan to me!! 

As for the price of your flight - indeed a crazy world. It costs my husband more to park his car in the airport carpark than to commute to Spain once a fortnight!!! 

Jo xxx


----------



## christykelly

Hey myself and my girlfriend are looking to move over to benidorm region at the end of feb, we are looking to go over to find a job and stay as cheap as possible, we are not fussy but dont want to stay in a hell hole, she`s spanish and i like spanish food so thats not a problem, we are looking to spend 1500 a month on everything. 
Is this possible?


----------



## jojo

christykelly said:


> Hey myself and my girlfriend are looking to move over to benidorm region at the end of feb, we are looking to go over to find a job and stay as cheap as possible, we are not fussy but dont want to stay in a hell hole, she`s spanish and i like spanish food so thats not a problem, we are looking to spend 1500 a month on everything.
> Is this possible?



If its just the two of you then yes its possible and do-able. 

Jo xxx


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## MaidenScotland

I found cleaning materials, soap powder, toiletries very expensive in Spain... I think the lack of bogof's makes this more expensive.. in the UK I would stock up on bogof's


----------



## jojo

MaidenScotland said:


> I found cleaning materials, soap powder, toiletries very expensive in Spain... I think the lack of bogof's makes this more expensive.. in the UK I would stock up on bogof's


Electrical goods here are expensive too. At the weekend I needed to get my son a specific type of calculator, it was ridiculously expensive €24,99 so I didnt get it. I asked OH in England to have a look and he bought the exact same one in Argos for ELEVEN POUNDS! Its the same with white goods, tvs etc

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina

MaidenScotland said:


> I found cleaning materials, soap powder, toiletries very expensive in Spain... I think the lack of bogof's makes this more expensive.. in the UK I would stock up on bogof's


I find the cleaning materials are much more effective here though, they probably have more active ingredients that are banned in the UK? For example I have some kitchen grease remover that does actually remove grease, and drain cleaner that really does unblock drains! And the cold-water detergent is brilliant.

Carrefour and Dia do buy-three-get-one-free but I can't be bothered, their own brands are cheap enough.


----------



## christykelly

jojo said:


> If its just the two of you then yes its possible and do-able.
> 
> Jo xxx


cheers for answering so fast, well hopefully it will work out, is there anything price wise that people have to carefull when going over


----------



## Alcalaina

christykelly said:


> cheers for answering so fast, well hopefully it will work out, is there anything price wise that people have to carefull when going over


Well, as you've probably gathered if you've looked round the forum, there is very little chance of finding work in Spain just now. Unemployment is over 20% (four million people) and many bars and restaurants in the Benidorm area are closing through lack of trade. Have you got something lined up already? Do you speak fluent Spanish?

Your money will soon go if you eat out a lot or buy British-type food in supermarkets. If you can cook like the Spanish do, with lots of dried beans and fresh vegetables and only small amounts of meat or fish, you can live quite cheaply. 

Also it can get very cold and damp here in winter and electricity is very expensive, you can spend 50€ a week just keeping the flat warm. Better to just pile on more clothes.


----------



## christykelly

Alcalaina said:


> Well, as you've probably gathered if you've looked round the forum, there is very little chance of finding work in Spain just now. Unemployment is over 20% (four million people) and many bars and restaurants in the Benidorm area are closing through lack of trade. Have you got something lined up already? Do you speak fluent Spanish?
> 
> Your money will soon go if you eat out a lot or buy British-type food in supermarkets. If you can cook like the Spanish do, with lots of dried beans and fresh vegetables and only small amounts of meat or fish, you can live quite cheaply.
> 
> Also it can get very cold and damp here in winter and electricity is very expensive, you can spend 50€ a week just keeping the flat warm. Better to just pile on more clothes.


well in ireland iv been unemployed for a while, done a diploma in teachin english, noting lined up but appling for lots of jobs and will be going to acadamys in person when i get there, been studin spanish for a while but not great, the girlfriend is spanish she will help out a little, cold? heard its around 26 but comin from ireland i dont think il be affected much.

well thanks for the post i will be keepin all your sugg on board


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## Alcalaina

christykelly said:


> well in ireland iv been unemployed for a while, done a diploma in teachin english, noting lined up but appling for lots of jobs and will be going to acadamys in person when i get there, been studin spanish for a while but not great, the girlfriend is spanish she will help out a little, cold? heard its around 26 but comin from ireland i dont think il be affected much.
> 
> well thanks for the post i will be keepin all your sugg on board


26 ??? Dream on ... that's on a nice sunny afternoon if you're lucky, it's a bloody sight colder at night and the houses aren't insulated!

Good luck to you anyway!


----------



## christykelly

Alcalaina said:


> 26 ??? Dream on ... that's on a nice sunny afternoon if you're lucky, it's a bloody sight colder at night and the houses aren't insulated!
> 
> Good luck to you anyway!




id be happy with half that, thanks again


----------



## xabiaxica

christykelly said:


> well in ireland iv been unemployed for a while, done a diploma in teachin english, noting lined up but appling for lots of jobs and will be going to acadamys in person when i get there, been studin spanish for a while but not great, the girlfriend is spanish she will help out a little, cold? heard its around 26 but comin from ireland i dont think il be affected much.
> 
> well thanks for the post i will be keepin all your sugg on board


26º???

I'm about half an hour from Benidorm & I think it crept up to13º today!!! The heating is on, & I'm wrapped up in my snuggly!!!

don't come unless you have a job lined up - or you have enough money to last you for several months

unless of course your girlfriend's family can help out - in Spain it's often more a case of _who_ you know than _what_ you know

but Jojo's right too - if you have 1500€ a month and aren't too fussy about accommodation it's do-able


----------



## macdonner

*Furniture*

Can anyone advise the cost of furniture/goods at the moment, the likes of single beds, double beds, mattresses and sofas? Is it best to go second hand for furniture? Does the price really depend on whereabouts you are in Spain? Any info would be very handy!

:confused2:


----------



## jojo

macdonner said:


> Can anyone advise the cost of furniture/goods at the moment, the likes of single beds, double beds, mattresses and sofas? Is it best to go second hand for furniture? Does the price really depend on whereabouts you are in Spain? Any info would be very handy!
> 
> :confused2:


I think that in general furniture is a tad more expensive here. Have a look at the Ikea website and campare the spanish page prices to the UK prices and see what you think. Also its worth looking in the free ads etc for second hand stuff cos when people return to england they very often dont take their furniture

Jo xxx


----------



## MacRov

Don't give her ideas to look in Ikea, it'll be my bank card she's using


----------



## Alcalaina

MacRov said:


> Don't give her ideas to look in Ikea, it'll be my bank card she's using


But Ikea is definitely the best place for beds and bedding, especially if you want a longer length (Spanish "king size" is wider but not longer!)

If you are bringing pillows from the UK bring plenty of pillowcases because they are hard to find here in that size.


----------



## gabriele

Wow, I do envie you for being able to hop over anywhere. And wow, Faro it's now. I used to adore the Algarve. But everything looked, smelled and behaved differently when we were young. 







bob_bob said:


> My children have flown the nest and I'm divorced so in real terms the cost of food is not that great really. I'm (all modesty aside) a good cook, don't do junk food. In truth and being honest with myself I suspect I'm just not ready to sell my home and move full time abroad and will stick to the option of living in rented accommodation abroad for a few months of the year in different locations.
> 
> Today I got a return flight to Faro in Portugal (only going for a long weekend) for about £12 more than the cost of a Cardiff to London Train ticket, its a crazy world we live in.


----------



## macdonner

jojo said:


> I think that in general furniture is a tad more expensive here. Have a look at the Ikea website and campare the spanish page prices to the UK prices and see what you think. Also its worth looking in the free ads etc for second hand stuff cos when people return to england they very often dont take their furniture
> 
> Jo xxx


You really are a fountain of knowledge, thanks jojo! I had a look at Ikea and they are not too bad price-wise, a little bit more for some, less for some but its the same anywhere isn't it!


----------



## macdonner

MacRov said:


> Don't give her ideas to look in Ikea, it'll be my bank card she's using


:dance::rofl:


----------



## jojo

MacRov said:


> Don't give her ideas to look in Ikea, it'll be my bank card she's using



I'm sure its worth it for a little peace of mind lol!!!! 

Jo xxx


----------



## gabriele

macdonner said:


> You really are a fountain of knowledge, thanks jojo! I had a look at Ikea and they are not too bad price-wise, a little bit more for some, less for some but its the same anywhere isn't it!


Just mind that the quality by Ikea is not always so hot. I have a friend, who checked out other places in the end, as with most you must assemble yourself anyway and not everything fits all the time. With all of them there may be errors in fabrication to start with. Compare different furniture houses and offers...


----------



## xabiaxica

Stravinsky said:


> Groceries:
> 
> 12 large eggs €1.07
> Sardines in tomato, 4 x €1.56
> 8 lit bottle mineral water €1.84
> Muesli 750 gm €2.09
> 6 x 1 ltr skimmed milk - €6.30
> Tinned tuna 400 gms €3.75
> Flora marg 600 gms €2.30
> Gammon steak 340 gms €3.75
> 4 x Bifodus 0% fat yoghurts €0.95
> Coffee beans 500 gms €2.20
> Bunch of bananas €1.11
> 6 big apples €2.53
> 1 whole pineapple €2.10
> Crianza Rioja Red wine €3.95
> 300 gms mushrooms €1.00
> Bottle brandy 1 lit €7.45
> 750 gms sugar €1.60
> I litre orange juice €1.19
> 24 cans Mahou beer €9.66
> Oven Chips €1.85
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Car:
> Fuel: €1.05 diesel
> 10 w 40 Motor oil - 5 lit - €29.88


you posted those prices in Feb 2008 - nearly 3 years ago!!


I thought it would be interesting to compare with the prices on the mercadona online site today (I was going to do my shopping - but that can wait )


those in italics are different pack sizes, & I couldn't be bothered to get the calculator out to work it out precisely!

12 large eggs €1.15 - up 8c
Sardines in tomato, 4 x €1.90 - up 34c
_6 lit bottle mineral water €0.60 - much less
Muesli 1kg €1.50 - much less_
6 x 1 ltr skimmed milk - €5-10 - this was the most expensive available, but the own brand is €3.12
Tinned tuna 400 gms €5.72 - up €1.98
_Flora marg 250 gms €2.97 - more than double!_
Gammon steak N/A
4 x Bifodus 0% fat yoghurts €1.98 - more than double!
Coffee beans 500 gms €2.98 - up 78c
Bunch of bananas €1.01 - down 10c
6 big apples 25c each so €1.50 - down €1.03
1 whole pineapple €1.67 - down 43c
Crianza Rioja Red wine €4.50..mid range price - prices range from €2.58 to €6.95
300 gms mushrooms €0.90 -down 10c
Bottle brandy 1 lit €7.79 mid range price - perfectly drinkable stuff at €5.49
_1kg sugar €0.90 - much cheaper!_
_I litre orange juice longlife €0.90 - fresh €1.40_
24 cans Mahou beer €10.60 -up 1.94
Oven Chips €1.25 - down 60c


----------



## bob_bob

Looking at that list it would seem the UK is just about cheaper, wine here is about the same, Brandy is cheaper with you unless you don't mind the 30% stuff which would be about the same price. Tinned fish cheaper here (only just) as is the milk I think (I use fresh which is certainly cheaper, don't know about UHT milk).

The supermarkets here are still in a price war so some basics are very very cheap while others such as baked beans and tinned toms have shot up in price the last twelve months. Dried legume such as butter beans and lentils have also shot up in price here and you need a mortgage to buy high quality joints of meat, £17 for a leg of Welsh Lamb last weekend for my son and I.


----------



## Alcalaina

bob_bob said:


> Looking at that list it would seem the UK is just about cheaper, wine here is about the same, Brandy is cheaper with you unless you don't mind the 30% stuff which would be about the same price. Tinned fish cheaper here (only just) as is the milk I think (I use fresh which is certainly cheaper, don't know about UHT milk).
> 
> The supermarkets here are still in a price war so some basics are very very cheap while others such as baked beans and tinned toms have shot up in price the last twelve months. Dried legume such as butter beans and lentils have also shot up in price here and you need a mortgage to buy high quality joints of meat, £17 for a leg of Welsh Lamb last weekend for my son and I.


I still think you can shop more cheaply in Spain if you buy fruit and veg at a local market, and the meat from the butchers is so much better quality than supermarkets that you don´t need as much, as there is less waste. Cerdo iberico (free range pork) is great for roasts and stews, and a good substitute for lamb in curries. 

You can get a perfectly acceptable Rioja crianza for a couple of euros and own-brand beer for 25 cents a can. 

Mercadona do brilliant Pacific wild salmon (frozen fillets) for under 3 euros, no bones and very tasty.


----------



## christykelly

Does anyone know if you can get fresh milk in spain, I have only been to spanish areas and its all pasturized.


----------



## Alcalaina

christykelly said:


> Does anyone know if you can get fresh milk in spain, I have only been to spanish areas and its all pasturized.


Yes you can get fresh milk in the big supermarkets, but I think only Brits drink it. 

All milk is pasteurised, but the stuff in cartons (UHT) is heat treated so it doesn´t go off. After a couple of weeks on UHT the fresh stuff tastes really strange.


----------



## christykelly

Alcalaina said:


> Yes you can get fresh milk in the big supermarkets, but I think only Brits drink it.
> 
> All milk is pasteurised, but the stuff in cartons (UHT) is heat treated so it doesn´t go off. After a couple of weeks on UHT the fresh stuff tastes really strange.


Thats cool, cant tell a huge diff in taste myself. 
have you tried octopus, it looks scary but very tasty, 
seems good value


----------



## xabiaxica

Alcalaina said:


> Yes you can get fresh milk in the big supermarkets, but I think only Brits drink it.
> 
> All milk is pasteurised, but the stuff in cartons (UHT) is heat treated so it doesn´t go off. After a couple of weeks on UHT the fresh stuff tastes really strange.


you're right - when we used to come here on hols we all had trouble putting the UHT stuff on cereal

when we moved here 7 years ago, fresh milk wasn't always available, but if you could get it you paid an arm & a leg for it, so we started buying the UHT

my OH loves(d) the full cream Jersey milk & recently treated himself to some in Iceland - even he said it didn't quite taste right after getting use to semi-skimmed UHT!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Yes you can get fresh milk in the big supermarkets, but I think only Brits drink it.


In your area perhaps Alcalaina. Here it's readily available, although UHT is still the firm favourite. I bet in Galicia and Asturias it's a different story.

As usual, this has been discussed before. Here's the thread!
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/48322-fresh-milk.html


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> In your area perhaps Alcalaina. Here it's readily available, although UHT is still the firm favourite. I bet in Galicia and Asturias it's a different story.
> 
> As usual, this has been discussed before. Here's the thread!
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/48322-fresh-milk.html


Ah right. We are deep in goat country here. You can now get organic goatsmilk yoghurt at our local dairy - delicious!


----------



## christykelly

Pesky Wesky said:


> In your area perhaps Alcalaina. Here it's readily available, although UHT is still the firm favourite. I bet in Galicia and Asturias it's a different story.
> 
> As usual, this has been discussed before. Here's the thread!
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/48322-fresh-milk.html


I went on it, good link.


----------



## gabriele

Mercadona Puerto de la Cruz Tenerife sold me an entire frozen flat fish of also Wild salmon (Salmon Selvaje) for Euros 7,70/kg, a couple of days ago January 19th, 2011.

The fish had an excellent nutty texture and no bones, either. The entire fish per peace, wich I bought worked out to cost Euros 2,95 and I was only able to eat half of it . The rest will be served tomorrow. No idea what would be asked for a fish like that in the UK or in the rest of Northern Europe. I think I bought real value for money.


----------



## christykelly

gabriele said:


> Mercadona Puerto de la Cruz Tenerife sold me an entire frozen flat fish of also Wild salmon (Salmon Selvaje) for Euros 7,70/kg, a couple of days ago January 19th, 2011.
> 
> The fish had an excellent nutty texture and no bones, either. The entire fish per peace, wich I bought worked out to cost Euros 2,95 and I was only able to eat half of it . The rest will be served tomorrow. No idea what would be asked for a fish like that in the UK or in the rest of Northern Europe. I think I bought real value for money.


good value, cod in dublin is close to 19kg, so i think your doing well,


----------



## bob_bob

gabriele said:


> Mercadona Puerto de la Cruz Tenerife sold me an entire frozen flat fish of also Wild salmon (Salmon Selvaje) for Euros 7,70/kg, a couple of days ago January 19th, 2011.
> 
> The fish had an excellent nutty texture and no bones, either. The entire fish per peace, wich I bought worked out to cost Euros 2,95 and I was only able to eat half of it . The rest will be served tomorrow. No idea what would be asked for a fish like that in the UK or in the rest of Northern Europe. I think I bought real value for money.


Sounds like you had a great deal there, fresh fish in the UK is now silly money, very OTT. We have a fantastic fish and chip shop near us, the cod is perfect but its £4.80 plus £1.20 for chips so £6 a go...family of four £24...for fish and chips

What I do like about my trips to Spain and Portugal or Greece/Cyprus is that whilst the fruit and veg are not the perfect looking stuff we get in the UK, they just taste better. I like toms that have a hint of green on the skin, a slightly sharper flavour but you just can't buy them here, all you have are these red clones that taste of water. Its the same with other fruit, they all look fantastic but lack taste. 

I'll be staying with a good friend in Portugal in a few days (sadly only for a few days) and he's already got some wild boar for us which in fact he shot himself, local wine, nice bread, good fresh produce and great company; what more could you ask for when on a break from the UK


----------



## gabriele

Hi Bob Bob,

where about will you be in Portugal? You are making me curious. It's this saudad or call it nostalgy in English which sets me back decades when I was so happy in the land of the Portuguese.


----------



## Alcalaina

christykelly said:


> Thats cool, cant tell a huge diff in taste myself.
> have you tried octopus, it looks scary but very tasty,
> seems good value


I love the canned _pulpo gallego_, served hot with crusty bread. I will eat fresh octopus if it's put in front of me but unless it is cooked properly it can be a bit rubbery.


----------



## Alcalaina

bob_bob said:


> Sounds like you had a great deal there, fresh fish in the UK is now silly money, very OTT. We have a fantastic fish and chip shop near us, the cod is perfect but its £4.80 plus £1.20 for chips so £6 a go...family of four £24...for fish and chips
> 
> What I do like about my trips to Spain and Portugal or Greece/Cyprus is that whilst the fruit and veg are not the perfect looking stuff we get in the UK, they just taste better. I like toms that have a hint of green on the skin, a slightly sharper flavour but you just can't buy them here, all you have are these red clones that taste of water. Its the same with other fruit, they all look fantastic but lack taste.
> 
> I'll be staying with a good friend in Portugal in a few days (sadly only for a few days) and he's already got some wild boar for us which in fact he shot himself, local wine, nice bread, good fresh produce and great company; what more could you ask for when on a break from the UK


Mmmm, _jabalí _- lucky you!

You are quite right about the fruit and veg. It tastes better and usually it hasn't been artificially prevented from ripening naturally, by being chilled, or stored in CO2 gas which inhibits ethylene production. On the other hand this means it does go off more quickly, so buy small amounts every couple of days like the Spanish do.


----------



## andmac

Alcalaina said:


> Mmmm, _jabalí _- lucky you!
> 
> You are quite right about the fruit and veg. It tastes better and usually it hasn't been artificially prevented from ripening naturally, by being chilled, or stored in CO2 gas which inhibits ethylene production. On the other hand this means it does go off more quickly, so buy small amounts every couple of days like the Spanish do.


Too right. Go to market every few days to stock up on the delicious and sometimes plain ugly but delicious fruit and veg. 

The ugliest ones sometimes taste the best! Having only lived in this area a couple of months after being to other parts of Spain many times, I am still bowled over by the sheer quality and flavour of our local produce. It is superb and way cheaper in the market compared with the supermarket.


----------



## yo_soy

I don't know if this has been covered, and it's hardly an essential, but chewing gum is so expensive in Spain. About 80 cents, which is 70p or so?

Unless I never pay attention to how much I pay for chewing gum back in the UK.


----------



## blinkdog88

*Cost of gas*

What is the current cost of gas in spain? Also I am interested in maybe doing some camping (not tourist camp grounds but more like off th beaten path style) does anyone have any info?


----------



## andmac

For butane we get the 12kg ones refills at the Repsol depot, they are 13€ each. The small 6kg lightweight ones are 14€ at the petrol station, haven't changed one at the depot yet! Depot is cheap.


----------



## blinkdog88

andmac said:


> For butane we get the 12kg ones refills at the Repsol depot, they are 13€ each. The small 6kg lightweight ones are 14€ at the petrol station, haven't changed one at the depot yet! Depot is cheap.



My apologies I meant one liter of petrol? Also what about 18 holes of golf down in the costa region?


----------



## andmac

blinkdog88 said:


> My apologies I meant one liter of petrol? Also what about 18 holes of golf down in the costa region?


Haha sorry, I should have notices you were from the USA! Never mind. Hope you can get the answer concerning petrol and golf!


----------



## daftandy

*current cigarette prices*

what are current cigarette prices in spain


----------



## xabiaxica

daftandy said:


> what are current cigarette prices in spain


less than the UK I dare say - being a non-smoker

I would also think it depends upon whether you want local or imported brands


jojo would probably know


----------



## andmac

daftandy said:


> what are current cigarette prices in spain


Hi Fortuna are 37€ for 200 here.


----------



## gus-lopez

Tobacco Market Commission - Ministry of the Treasury
Put in what you want to look at & click 'consultar precios'. The1st column is the official price at estancos & the 2nd maximum that can be charged by other authorised outlets .


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## xabiaxica

you can compare supermarket prices on this website

Carritus


----------



## Alcalaina

blinkdog88 said:


> My apologies I meant one liter of petrol? Also what about 18 holes of golf down in the costa region?


Petrol currrently €1,28 and rising. Golf - I have no idea about CDS but on CDL it ranges from €30 upwards.


----------



## NotinUse

Golden Virginia is now €6.80 for a 50grm pack not worth the risk if smuggling


----------



## mia100max

I am thinking of relocating to Spain from North Cyprus. The prices in Spain may not seem cheap to you expats living there but take a look at the average costs here!
Sliced loaf: £1.50
Milk: £1.10
2 Pork chops: £4.00
2 lamb medallions: £5.00
Leg of lamb: £24.00
1 kilo of mince: £8.00
Tin of heinz soup: £1.20
Toilet rolls (4) £1.40
small butter: £2.00
1 ltr diet coke: £1.60
Small toothpaste (colgate): £2.00
Nescafe (200grm): £6.00
Cheese (300grm): £3.00
1 yr road tax on a 1991 Toyota Surf: £700 (no, that is not a misprint)!!

My food bill alone will halve when I move!
Also, electricity is on average about £70 a month for 2 people (without aircon).

We also now have to have a blood test every year when we renew our residency which is £50 and the residency cost is £90 a year, at the end of the 6 years qualifying period, you have to pay £500 when you apply for full residency and you are not even guaranteed it despite forking out for 6 years, it is a joke!


----------



## Alcalaina

mia100max said:


> I am thinking of relocating to Spain from North Cyprus. The prices in Spain may not seem cheap to you expats living there but take a look at the average costs here!
> Sliced loaf: £1.50
> Milk: £1.10
> 2 Pork chops: £4.00
> 2 lamb medallions: £5.00
> Leg of lamb: £24.00
> 1 kilo of mince: £8.00
> Tin of heinz soup: £1.20
> Toilet rolls (4) £1.40
> small butter: £2.00
> 1 ltr diet coke: £1.60
> Small toothpaste (colgate): £2.00
> Nescafe (200grm): £6.00
> Cheese (300grm): £3.00
> 1 yr road tax on a 1991 Toyota Surf: £700 (no, that is not a misprint)!!
> 
> My food bill alone will halve when I move!
> Also, electricity is on average about £70 a month for 2 people (without aircon).
> 
> We also now have to have a blood test every year when we renew our residency which is £50 and the residency cost is £90 a year, at the end of the 6 years qualifying period, you have to pay £500 when you apply for full residency and you are not even guaranteed it despite forking out for 6 years, it is a joke!


Wow, that is a big difference! We can get a leg of lamb (frozen) for €9. Though not sure why you would want Nescafe when you can get proper Turkish/Greek coffee! 

What is the blood test for?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Wow, that is a big difference! We can get a leg of lamb (frozen) for €9. Though not sure why you would want Nescafe when you can get proper Turkish/Greek coffee!
> 
> What is the blood test for?


The list is in pounds Al.


----------



## mia100max

The blood test is to prove you do not have aids, hepatitis etc.


----------



## littleredrooster

mia100max said:


> I am thinking of relocating to Spain from North Cyprus. The prices in Spain may not seem cheap to you expats living there but take a look at the average costs here!
> Sliced loaf: £1.50
> Milk: £1.10
> 2 Pork chops: £4.00
> 2 lamb medallions: £5.00
> Leg of lamb: £24.00
> 1 kilo of mince: £8.00
> Tin of heinz soup: £1.20
> Toilet rolls (4) £1.40
> small butter: £2.00
> 1 ltr diet coke: £1.60
> Small toothpaste (colgate): £2.00
> Nescafe (200grm): £6.00
> Cheese (300grm): £3.00
> 1 yr road tax on a 1991 Toyota Surf: £700 (no, that is not a misprint)!!
> 
> My food bill alone will halve when I move!
> Also, electricity is on average about £70 a month for 2 people (without aircon).
> 
> We also now have to have a blood test every year when we renew our residency which is £50 and the residency cost is £90 a year, at the end of the 6 years qualifying period, you have to pay £500 when you apply for full residency and you are not even guaranteed it despite forking out for 6 years, it is a joke!


So why not just move down the road to the Southern half,...or are you considered persona non grata there after living in the North ?


----------



## mia100max

littleredrooster said:


> So why not just move down the road to the Southern half,...or are you considered persona non grata there after living in the North ?


Mainly, the cost of houses there!
The attirude towards expats on both sides of the island is, as long as you have money to spend, we will tolerate you. We find Spain so much more friendly.


----------



## Jubbly52

Hi all...well,we absolutely love it in SPain..we are inland from Malaga about 45 mins..lovely hot sunshine moast of the time.....cheap to eat out..diesel is about 1.25 euro litre...our weeks shopping in uk was about £80 per week here it is 80 euro per week...each euro is worth about 85p so work it out....yup no need to spend more than 2 euro for a good bottle of 12.5%/13% red wine (no matter what the so called experts tell you)...coffee ,or a beer in a cafe=1 euro with free tapas...luchtime meal in a cafe is about 5 euro with a free drink...menu del dia 8 .5 euro...chinese restaurant...5.60 euro 3 course but pay for your drink....second hand cars here are about £1500 dearer than the uk....dont listen to all the moaners,they will never happy,even it was all free!!!!...enjoy life out here,no hassle,no crime,peaceful laid back life...sheer bliss.


----------



## littleredrooster

Yes, there are still bargains to be had, like menu del dia and cheap booze, but the fact remains that Spain has rapidly moved from being one of the cheapest countries in the EU, towards being one of the most expensive.

I'm not sure what the real increase is in percentage terms over the last eight to ten years, but the actual figures must be truly shocking.

Apparently Spain has the highest European inflation rate in more recent years running at 3.1%, or almost 4% taking everything into account, according to EU figures.

Taking this into account, in addition to the drastic effects of the recession, it is little wonder that many Spanish and British alike have come upon desperate times.


----------



## Stravinsky

littleredrooster said:


> Yes, there are still bargains to be had, like menu del dia and cheap booze, but the fact remains that Spain has rapidly moved from being one of the cheapest countries in the EU, towards being one of the most expensive.



I'm sorry I have to disagree ... and I see you are in my "area" as well. I have said before I agree there are areas of Spain where its more expensive than others, the CDS being one that seems to stand out.

But believe me ..... I have spent the last two weeks back in the UK, in fact since mid December I have only been in Spain for a few weeks. Generalising that Spain is one of the most expensive countries in Europe cant be correct. I could detail why, but I've done so before and this isnt the right thread. Even car Insurance has cost more in the UK than in Spain. Groceries, definately more in the UK. And before someone mentions the 2 for 1 offers in the UK ... yes, they are here but not much use if you dont want whats on offer!  Forget the booze and coffee comparisions. As someone who has properties in both countries and therefore has an overall comparison, Spain wins!

A lot often depends also on where people shop in Spain, i.e. which shops.


----------



## Alcalaina

littleredrooster said:


> Yes, there are still bargains to be had, like menu del dia and cheap booze, but the fact remains that Spain has rapidly moved from being one of the cheapest countries in the EU, towards being one of the most expensive.
> 
> I'm not sure what the real increase is in percentage terms over the last eight to ten years, but the actual figures must be truly shocking.
> 
> Apparently Spain has the highest European inflation rate in more recent years running at 3.1%, or almost 4% taking everything into account, according to EU figures.
> 
> Taking this into account, in addition to the drastic effects of the recession, it is little wonder that many Spanish and British alike have come upon desperate times.


I would dispute that Spain is one of the most expensive places to live in Europe. The Scandinavian countries, Switzerland, Italy, UK and France all score higher on the Mercers Index.

Inflation in the UK is predicted to hit 5% in 2011. It is high in Spain right now because of the IVA (VAT) increase, from 16 to 18%. Even after the increase Spain has one of the lowest rates in Europe. http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_custom...tion/vat/how_vat_works/rates/vat_rates_en.pdf

The perception of steep price rises in Spain is much greater among Brits of course because the pound only buys two-thirds of what it did ten years ago!


----------



## bob_bob

Nowhere is cheap anymore. The UK has better supermarkets carrying a wider range of products due to the countries racial diversity perhaps but whilst the fresh produce looks perfect these looks are not always a true reflection of taste. Prices are better I think overall in the UK, depends on what you buy but there is not much in it. We can all pick items that are cheaper in the two countries but Spain does lack variety in terms of raw ingredients and cuisine; within easy travel of even me in the valleys of Wales I have Indian, Chinese, Greek, Portugese, Italian and Mexican (no Spanish) eateries.

But, you don't move to Spain because the chap down the road makes a dam good Rogan Josh, you move for a change in life style, weather, general ambience; effectivly peace of mind I suspect. Price differences can be a bonus or annoyance you deal with. The days of moving anywhere in Europe to get more for your money are over. I've got friends and some family all over the world and a common thread from them all is the cost of living.

Almost on topic, a good friend who moved to the States in @1985 to Nurse retired to Mexico and lasted for a year, since moved to Costa Rica and is living pretty much the high life on his pension so if you want to practise your Spanish and eat out for $4 move there lol.


----------



## fourgotospain

The guy down the road from us does make a dam good Rogan Josh....

I find Spain cheaper as I don't buy things I don't need just because they're in the megastore I buy my groceries in. It's about seperating what you WANT from what you NEED.


----------



## Alcalaina

fourgotospain said:


> The guy down the road from us does make a dam good Rogan Josh....


So do I! And all ingredients bought in Spain. 



fourgotospain said:


> I find Spain cheaper as I don't buy things I don't need just because they're in the megastore I buy my groceries in. It's about seperating what you WANT from what you NEED.


Quite true - now I've got over the initial temptation to buy seven different types of embutido in the local butcher just to see what they are like!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

fourgotospain said:


> I find Spain cheaper as I don't buy things I don't need just because they're in the megastore I buy my groceries in. It's about seperating what you WANT from what you NEED.


True, but true whereever you live, don't you think?


----------



## bob_bob

fourgotospain said:


> The guy down the road from us does make a dam good Rogan Josh....
> 
> I find Spain cheaper as I don't buy things I don't need just because they're in the megastore I buy my groceries in. It's about seperating what you WANT from what you NEED.


Bet its not as good as mine :tongue1:

Shopping is very tempting especially in something like a Tesco superstore where the grocery range is so large  When on my jaunts to Spain I buy less variety but still cook very nice food so buying extra must be a winter comfort thing for some of us. I do find that if I can't 'see' the food I buy less so shopping online is good for me and helps with my queue rage issues :eyebrows:


----------



## xabiaxica

bob_bob said:


> Bet its not as good as mine :tongue1:
> 
> Shopping is very tempting especially in something like a Tesco superstore where the grocery range is so large  When on my jaunts to Spain I buy less variety but still cook very nice food so buying extra must be a winter comfort thing for some of us. I do find that if I can't 'see' the food I buy less so shopping online is good for me and helps with my queue rage issues :eyebrows:


yes - I do my shoppping online too & find I impulse buy much less

that said - when the bill is less than I expected I do sometimes log back in & add a couple of treats


----------



## littleredrooster

Stravinsky said:


> I'm sorry I have to disagree ... and I see you are in my "area" as well. I have said before I agree there are areas of Spain where its more expensive than others, the CDS being one that seems to stand out.
> 
> But believe me ..... I have spent the last two weeks back in the UK, in fact since mid December I have only been in Spain for a few weeks. Generalising that Spain is one of the most expensive countries in Europe cant be correct. I could detail why, but I've done so before and this isnt the right thread. Even car Insurance has cost more in the UK than in Spain. Groceries, definately more in the UK. And before someone mentions the 2 for 1 offers in the UK ... yes, they are here but not much use if you dont want whats on offer!  Forget the booze and coffee comparisions. As someone who has properties in both countries and therefore has an overall comparison, Spain wins!
> 
> A lot often depends also on where people shop in Spain, i.e. which shops.


I did not say Spain is one of the most expensive countries in Europe. I said it was rapidly moving in that direction and I stand by that statement.

Spanish inflation rate one of the highest in Europe, OECD

For eighteen years now I have been living between Spain, Scandinavia and the UK every single year.
I have property in all three and Spain most definitely does not win in my case.
However this is naturally very dependant on individual locations.
The increase in Spain has continued unabated for far too many years now, and there is little sign of it abating, in fact possibly quite the opposite.
Together with my Swedish friends we have never ceased to be shocked at the increased prices each time we have returned to Spain, even allowing for the recession and the present exchange rate.
Where Spain was a very clear winner not so many years ago,the overall differences now are miniscule, and unfortunately in Spains case there seems no end in sight.
OK the UK is going to have a very high rate for the next year or so at least, but there is far more confidence in that coming back under control again. than here in Spain.
You use a property comparison, which as I say all depends on individual location.
I could equally well use a new car cost comparison, a major investment for most, and not so much dependant on location.
When I bought my first new car in Spain, I recall thinking as I drove out of the showroom, hell I could afford to buy two of these for the price of just one in the UK. 
Now look which way the pendulum has swung in such dramatic fashion.


----------



## Alcalaina

littleredrooster said:


> I did not say Spain is one of the most expensive countries in Europe. I said it was rapidly moving in that direction and I stand by that statement.
> 
> Spanish inflation rate one of the highest in Europe, OECD
> 
> For eighteen years now I have been living between Spain, Scandinavia and the UK every single year.
> I have property in all three and Spain most definitely does not win in my case.
> However this is naturally very dependant on individual locations.
> The increase in Spain has continued unabated for far too many years now, and there is little sign of it abating, in fact possibly quite the opposite.
> Together with my Swedish friends we have never ceased to be shocked at the increased prices each time we have returned to Spain, even allowing for the recession and the present exchange rate.
> Where Spain was a very clear winner not so many years ago,the overall differences now are miniscule, and unfortunately in Spains case there seems no end in sight.
> OK the UK is going to have a very high rate for the next year or so at least, but there is far more confidence in that coming back under control again. than here in Spain.
> You use a property comparison, which as I say all depends on individual location.
> I could equally well use a new car cost comparison, a major investment for most, and not so much dependant on location.
> When I bought my first new car in Spain, I recall thinking as I drove out of the showroom, hell I could afford to buy two of these for the price of just one in the UK.
> Now look which way the pendulum has swung in such dramatic fashion.


Mercers do an independent cost of living index showing the most expensive cities to live in. In 2010 London was 17th, Barcelona 49th and no other Spanish city makes the top 50. Cost of Living survey 2010 - City rankings

Millions of retired and unemployed Spanish people live on less than €600 a month. Obviously your pesonal cost of living depends on your lifestyle but I can´t agree that Spain is an expensive place to live, even now.


----------



## littleredrooster

Alcalaina said:


> Mercers do an independent cost of living index showing the most expensive cities to live in. In 2010 London was 17th, Barcelona 49th and no other Spanish city makes the top 50. Cost of Living survey 2010 - City rankings
> 
> Millions of retired and unemployed Spanish people live on less than €600 a month. Obviously your pesonal cost of living depends on your lifestyle but I can´t agree that Spain is an expensive place to live, even now.


I am looking at the long term figures, in addition to forecasts for quite a few years ahead in Spain as a whole, which is quite a bit different and probably a much better guide than cherry picking individual cities in one specific year only.

In addition, as we both know full well London is far from typical of much of England. 

Naturally the cost of living varies greatly with lifestyle and location, so specific examples are of little relevance.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

littleredrooster said:


> I am looking at the long term figures, in addition to forecasts for quite a few years ahead in Spain as a whole, which is quite a bit different and probably a much better guide than cherry picking individual cities in one specific year only.
> 
> In addition, as we both know full well London is far from typical of much of England.
> 
> Naturally the cost of living varies greatly with lifestyle and location, so specific examples are of little relevance.


Spill the beans.
Where can we find the long term figures?


----------



## littleredrooster

Pesky Wesky said:


> Spill the beans.
> Where can we find the long term figures?




http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/publications/publication1421_en.pdf

Consistently higher than the EU average every year, at least as far back as 1988.

Also interesting to note the higher labour costs in relation to the lower productivity figures.


----------



## Jubbly52

:eyebrows:


Jubbly52 said:


> Hi all...well,we absolutely love it in SPain..we are inland from Malaga about 45 mins..lovely hot sunshine moast of the time.....cheap to eat out..diesel is about 1.25 euro litre...our weeks shopping in uk was about £80 per week here it is 80 euro per week...each euro is worth about 85p so work it out....yup no need to spend more than 2 euro for a good bottle of 12.5%/13% red wine (no matter what the so called experts tell you)...coffee ,or a beer in a cafe=1 euro with free tapas...luchtime meal in a cafe is about 5 euro with a free drink...menu del dia 8 .5 euro...chinese restaurant...5.60 euro 3 course but pay for your drink....second hand cars here are about £1500 dearer than the uk....dont listen to all the moaners,they will never happy,even it was all free!!!!...enjoy life out here,no hassle,no crime,peaceful laid back life...sheer bliss.


.well,that was abit of a shock...lets say i thought we were happy.here...well i am...but she returned to the uk on Friday!!...and now im told she wants a divorce!!!...i suppose i should not have left the toilet seat up after all:eyebrows:


----------



## jojo

Jubbly52 said:


> :eyebrows:
> 
> .well,that was abit of a shock...lets say i thought we were happy.here...well i am...but she returned to the uk on Friday!!...and now im told she wants a divorce!!!...i suppose i should not have left the toilet seat up after all:eyebrows:


Give it time for both of you to sort out your emotions and needs! We all do and say things in the heat of the moment. 

Jo xxx


----------



## Jubbly52

jojo said:


> Give it time for both of you to sort out your emotions and needs! We all do and say things in the heat of the moment.
> 
> Jo xxx


..no....its gone past that...after what she said to me...i now know how she really feels i wouldn`t even try to talk her to come back....i even told her i didnt want her back...and she seems happy with that....so i just now wait for the divorce papers or what happens...


----------



## Alcalaina

Jubbly52 said:


> ..no....its gone past that...after what she said to me...i now know how she really feels i wouldn`t even try to talk her to come back....i even told her i didnt want her back...and she seems happy with that....so i just now wait for the divorce papers or what happens...


Well, I´m no agony aunt but I would suggest that since you are here in Spain - change of scenery, change of lifestyle - make the most of it! Explore your new surroundings, meet new people ... 

As Jojo said, you might both feel differently once the heat has died down. Maybe after a while she will realise what she´s missing, maybe not. Either way, tomorrow is the first day of the rest of your life so don´t waste it brooding over what might have been.


----------



## jojo

...... and whats stopping you two living a bit of both and doing a variety of permutations - a week/month here a week/month there, visiting each other regularly, here for the summer there for the winter????....... Me and my OH live a bit like that, he commutes to work in the UK and I stay here. Its not always easy, but it works!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## littleredrooster

......and as they say absence makes the heart grow fonder. 
or was it absinthe ?


----------



## chriskrakow

Wow


Barry Davys said:


> Hi Dizzy,
> 
> If you are coming to the Costa Brava you can add quite a bit to the cost of living given here. There are also summer and winter prices.
> 
> Aiguafreda is beautiful. You haven't just bought the 5 Million € house have you?
> 
> I live in Begur. The newspapers are reporting that 6 million car journeys will be taken this weekend. I think about one million of those have headed to Begur.
> 
> If you need some local information let me just ask.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Barry


wow..5 million,,where is that at,,l'm looking for a small estate, finca, cortijo,,land to build with land,,any ideas...


----------



## gabriele

Just be very very careful because of building restrictions...
Or restricted land where building is not allowed.

Mind, an estate agent might just promise anything or may make it sound like that. You may get some idea into your had which may border to wishful thinking which could cost mega bucks in penalties and more later. So keep your head very cool, dear...


----------



## xabiaxica

from Mercadona today

ALIMENTACION - ALIÑOS Y CONDIMENTOS
37402 BOLSA PARA ASAR POLLO CON HIERBAS PROVENZALES, HACENDADO, CAJA 2 u - 48 g 1 UN 0,85
37403 BOLSA PARA ASAR POLLO AL AJO Y LIMON, HACENDADO, CAJA 2 u - 60 g 1 UN 0,85
Ticket Final ALIMENTACION - CEREALES
9251 CEREAL MAIZ TRIGO GOLDEN GRAHAMS, NESTLE, CAJA 450 G. 1 UN 2,59
9255 CEREAL RELLENO CHOCOLATE, HACENDADO, CAJA 500 G. 1 UN 1,59
Ticket Final ALIMENTACION - HARINAS
29100 HARINA TRIGO, ARAGONESA, PAQUETE 1 KG. 1 UN 0,37
Ticket Final ALIMENTACION - HUEVOS
31504 HUEVO GRANDE L, ., CARTON 12 u 1 UN 1,20
Ticket Final ALIMENTACION - PLATOS PREPARADOS
1140 COMIDA PREPARADA LASAÑA BOLOÑESA, MARTINEZ LORIENTE, BANDEJA 400 G 2 UN 4,50
1438 COMIDA PREPARADA MOUSAAKA, MARTINEZ LORIENTE, BANDEJA 325 g 3 UN 6,30
2224 COMIDA PREPARADA PAELLA, MARTINEZ LORIENTE, BANDEJA 325 G 3 UN 6,00
2242 COMIDA PREPARADA FIDEUA, MARTINEZ LORIENTE, BANDEJA 325 g 3 UN 6,00
Ticket Final BEBIDAS - CERVEZAS
27005 CERVEZA NEGRA (DRAFT), GUINNES, LATA 440 cc 8 UN 15,76
Ticket Final BEBIDAS - REFRESCOS
27733 GASEOSA, LA CASERA, BOTELLA PACK 2 X 1,5 L - 3 L 2 UN 2,70
Ticket Final BEBIDAS - ZUMOS Y NECTARES
39653 ZUMO TROPICAL, HACENDADO, BRICK 1 l 2 UN 1,46
Ticket Final CARNES - AVES
25054 POLLO ENTERO LIMPIO 1 UN .***LE RECOMENDAMOS***, SADA, BANDEJA 1550 g APROX. 1 UN 3,24
25109 POLLO PECHUGA ENTERA SIN HUESO, SADA, PAQUETE 1000 G APROX. 1 UN 5,29
Ticket Final CARNES - CERDO
2228 CERDO SOLOMILLO CONGELADO ENTERO ***LE RECOMENDAMOS***, MARTINEZ LORIENTE, PAQUETE 600 g APROX 2 UN 8,28
Ticket Final CARNES - ELABORADOS
2262 CARNE PICADA TERNERA BURGUER MEAT ***LE RECOMENDAMOS***, EMBUTIDOS MARTINEZ, BANDEJA 700 G. 1 UN 3,15
Ticket Final CHARCUTERIA - COCIDO
56156 FIAMBRE PECHUGA POLLO LONCHAS FINAS, HACENDADO, PAQUETE 200 G 1 UN 1,82
56158 FIAMBRE PECHUGA PAVO FINAS HIERBAS, HACENDADO, PAQUETE 200 g 1 UN 1,82
59215 JAMON COCIDO LONCHAS SANDWICH, HACENDADO, PAQUETE 250 g 2 UN 3,50
Ticket Final CHARCUTERIA - QUESOS
50428 QUESO BARRA LONCHAS EDAM 12 U., CAMPINA, PAQUETE 300 G. 1 UN 1,75
51101 QUESO UNTAR BLANCO NATURAL LIGERO ***NOVEDAD***, PHILADELPHIA, TARRINA 270 g 2 UN 3,98
Ticket Final CONGELADOS - VERDURAS
61406 PATATAS CORTE GRUESO CLASICAS CONGELADAS ***LE RECOMENDAMOS***, AGRISTO, PAQUETE 1 kg 2 UN 1,92
Ticket Final DROGUERÍA - DESECHABLES HIGIENE PERSONAL
47818 PAPEL HIGIENICO BLANCO DOBLE ROLLO, BOSQUE VERDE, PAQUETE 12 u 1 UN 3,45
Ticket Final DROGUERÍA - DETERGENTE LAVADO A MAQUINA
40440 DETERGENTE LAVADORA GEL HIGIENE ROPA COLOR Y BLANCA (TAPON AZUL OSCURO), BOSQUE VERDE, BOTELLA 2 L 22 LAVADOS 1 UN 3,79
Ticket Final DROGUERÍA - LIMPIADORES DEL HOGAR
43924 DESENGRASANTE CITRICO PISTOLA, BOSQUE VERDE, BOTELLA 750 CC. 1 UN 1,42
Ticket Final DROGUERÍA - MONOUSOS DESECHABLES
49752 BOLSA BASURA AROMA LAVANDA 55X60 CIERRE 30 L (MORADAS), BOSQUE VERDE, PAQUETE 20 U. 1 UN 1,55
Ticket Final DROGUERÍA - SUAVIZANTES / ELIMINAOLORES
40721 SUAVIZANTE ROPA CONCENTRADO NATURAL ALOE VERA (BLANCO ), BOSQUE VERDE, BOTELLA 2L 1 UN 1,60
Ticket Final FRUTAS Y VERDURAS - FRUTAS
3243 MANDARINA ***LE RECOMENDAMOS***, , MALLA 1.5 KG 1 UN 2,89
3713 FRESON ***LE RECOMENDAMOS***, , BANDEJA 500 g APROX 2 UN 3,36
3835 BANANA 5/6 PIEZAS, ., BANDEJA 700 G. 1 UN 1,09
Ticket Final HORNO Y BOLLERIA - PAN
82324 PAN MOLDE BLANCO 28 REBANADAS ESPECIAL SANDWICH ***LE RECOMENDAMOS***, HACENDADO, PAQUETE 820 g 2 UN 1,98
82329 PAN MOLDE MULTICEREALES 16 REBANADAS, HACENDADO, PAQUETE 460 g 2 UN 1,98
83801 PAN HORNEAR BAGUETTE "EL MOLINO NUEVO", EUROPASTRY, 2 u PAQUETE 250 g 4 UN 3,00
Ticket Final LACTEOS - LECHES
10137 LECHE SEMIDESNATADA, HACENDADO, BRICK PACK 6 U - 6 L 3 UN 9,36
Ticket Final NOVEDADES - ALIMENTACION
69036 PATATA LAVADA ***NOVEDAD***, LAZARO, MALLA 3 kg 1 UN 2,97
Ticket Final PERFUMERÍA - CABELLO
75695 TINTE COLORACION PERMANENTE Nº 09 RUBIO CLARO, LLONGUERAS, U. 1 UN 6,35
Ticket Final PERFUMERÍA - DESODORANTES
46066 DESODORANTE SPRAY PIEL SENSIBLE AVENA (TAPON MARRON ), DELIPLUS, BOTE 200 cc 3 UN 5,40
Totales del pedido EUROS PESETAS
SUBTOTAL 135,10 Eur. 22.479 Pts.
GASTOS DE ENVÍO 7,21 Eur. 1.200 Pts.
TOTAL 142,31 Eur. 23.679 Pts.


----------



## Maddalena

littleredrooster said:


> ......and as they say absence makes the heart grow fonder.
> or was it absinthe ?


No, it was "absence makes the heart go wander" !


----------



## phipes

what is the whole ist of Mercadona stuff for?


----------



## phipes

I don't know if mercadona offers a version of its website in english but I know the capraboacasa does, and I think it would be more helpful to expatriate who don't speak spanish.


----------



## xabiaxica

phipes said:


> what is the whole ist of Mercadona stuff for?


the current price of various food & other items you can buy in Mercadona:confused2:


----------



## phipes

xabiachica said:


> the current price of various food & other items you can buy in Mercadona:confused2:


yes but what is the point if noone understands what each item means?
just wondering


----------



## xabiaxica

phipes said:


> I don't know if mercadona offers a version of its website in english but I know the capraboacasa does, and I think it would be more helpful to expatriate who don't speak spanish.


yes, the website is also available in English - and French, German & other languages too

I just happen to do my shopping in Spanish because some of the translations into English on the website are a bit iffy


----------



## xabiaxica

phipes said:


> yes but what is the point if noone understands what each item means?
> just wondering


lol I see what you mean - but you'll have to learn the spanish names of foodstuffs one day, so why not start today


----------



## phipes

xabiachica said:


> lol I see what you mean - but you'll have to learn the spanish names of foodstuffs one day, so why not start today


 just FYI,and people looking to buy online in Spain. they can also try, if they live in Barcelona, capraboacasa com, their enligh is much better and according to a price comparison website they are cheaper than mercadona for real brands ( not mercadona brands) for example the absolut vodaka costs 1,5 euro less in caprabo.
just in case. Moreover, fruits, meat and chicken in mercadona are of very poor quality.
:ranger:


----------



## xabiaxica

phipes said:


> just FYI,and people looking to buy online in Spain. they can also try, if they live in Barcelona, capraboacasa com, their enligh is much better and according to a price comparison website they are cheaper than mercadona for real brands ( not mercadona brands) for example the absolut vodaka costs 1,5 euro less in caprabo.
> just in case. Moreover, fruits, meat and chicken in mercadona are of very poor quality.
> :ranger:


we used to have a Caprabo near us in Denia - I found their prices scarily expensive & the one time I bought meat on a Friday for a Sunday it had gone off before it got to the oven

I think with most supermarkets quality varies somewhat from store to store - we have 2 Mercadonas here in Jávea & one seems to have better fruit & veg than the other - or possibly a faster turnover


----------



## phipes

xabiachica said:


> we used to have a Caprabo near us in Denia - I found their prices scarily expensive & the one time I bought meat on a Friday for a Sunday it had gone off before it got to the oven
> 
> I think with most supermarkets quality varies somewhat from store to store - we have 2 Mercadonas here in Jávea & one seems to have better fruit & veg than the other - or possibly a faster turnover


well, I don't know if you ahve been back to caprabo since they have joined erosky, but they are now much cheaper. and it costs around 4 euros to get your food delivered. :clap2:


----------



## xabiaxica

phipes said:


> well, I don't know if you ahve been back to caprabo since they have joined erosky, but they are now much cheaper. and it costs around 4 euros to get your food delivered. :clap2:



actually what was Caprabo in Denia is now Eroski


maybe I'll have a look to see if they do online deliveries to Jávea & if they're cheaper - can't hurt to try it once


----------



## Pesky Wesky

phipes said:


> yes but what is the point if noone understands what each item means?
> just wondering


Xabia,
Thanks very much for posting that shopping list.I'm sure a lot of people will find it useful as a general guide to prices at the moment, even taking into account regional and supermarket differences.

phipes - There are some Brits who actually learn enough of the language to do their shopping in Spanish.
Amazing, but true!!!!!´

If you want to practice there are some food vocabulary games here...
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...ng-spain/47109-spain-quiz-7-memory-match.html

And BTW Caprabo did used to be a very expensive supermarket catering for the well off housewife, but was taken over (last year??) by the cheaper Basque company Eroski that has brough them a bit more down to earth I think


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Xabia,
> Thanks very much for posting that shopping list.I'm sure a lot of people will find it useful as a general guide to prices at the moment, even taking into account regional and supermarket differences.
> 
> phipes - There are some Brits who actually learn enough of the language to do their shopping in Spanish.
> Amazing, but true!!!!!´
> 
> If you want to practice there are some food vocabulary games here...
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...ng-spain/47109-spain-quiz-7-memory-match.html
> 
> And BTW Caprabo did used to be a very expensive supermarket catering for the well off housewife, but was taken over (last year??) by the cheaper Basque company Eroski that has brought them a bit more down to earth I think


thanks Pesky

I did have a look at the Eroski site last night - it really isn't cheaper on the whole than Mercadona - all a bit swings and roundabouts

I don't think they deliver to here either - the site didn't like my postcode

I think I'll stick with my local Mercadona - I know the staff & the drivers & it's all I can do to stop them actually packing the food in the cupboards for me!!


----------



## Alcalaina

Maddalena said:


> No, it was "absence makes the heart go wander" !


Or "abstinence" ....


----------



## Alcalaina

phipes said:


> just FYI,and people looking to buy online in Spain. they can also try, if they live in Barcelona, capraboacasa com, their enligh is much better and according to a price comparison website they are cheaper than mercadona for real brands ( not mercadona brands) for example the absolut vodaka costs 1,5 euro less in caprabo.
> just in case. Moreover, fruits, meat and chicken in mercadona are of very poor quality.
> :ranger:


That´s strange, Mercadona stores down here sell much better quality fresh produce than any of their competitors - Carrefour, Eroski, Dia or Supersol. They are like the Spanish equivalent of Waitrose - but not so expensive.


----------



## mallorcababy

In Mallorca Eroski is the best place for fresh and economical food.

Clare


----------



## phipes

xabiachica said:


> actually what was Caprabo in Denia is now Eroski
> 
> 
> maybe I'll have a look to see if they do online deliveries to Jávea & if they're cheaper - can't hurt to try it once


I actually found the website I mentionned before about online shop price comparison website it is called carritus 
Carritus

it is great to find out which is cheaper.


----------



## shazzer

*selling a car in spain*



Stravinsky said:


> As time goes on I will add costs of stuff in Spain here for info, so you can build some kind of idea of the cost of living here in Spain. Bear in mind I am in a rural area, 6 kms from the sea in Northern Costa Blanca. CDS, and the cities will be more costly.
> 
> Hope this helps


Hi, I wonder if you can help me, or point me in the right direction. My daughter is moving back home to the UK and wants to sell her car, she has advertised it in the local papers, and flyers etc, but at the moment no luck. She paid £2100 euros last year for it and the garage will only give her 600 for it, daylight robbery. Please advise and many thanks
Shazzer a very worried mum


----------



## Alcalaina

shazzer said:


> Hi, I wonder if you can help me, or point me in the right direction. My daughter is moving back home to the UK and wants to sell her car, she has advertised it in the local papers, and flyers etc, but at the moment no luck. She paid £2100 euros last year for it and the garage will only give her 600 for it, daylight robbery. Please advise and many thanks
> Shazzer a very worried mum


Try Coches de ocasión, coches de segunda mano y venta de coches usados or segundamano.es: anuncios clasificados para comprar y vender portátiles, moviles, coches, pisos...


----------



## anski

We bought a car 4 months ago for €8,000 & the most we have been offered is €2,000 also! Its Spain everyone wants things for nothing.
If we do not sell it we are going to smash it up & get the satisfaction of that.


----------



## JoCatalunya

Lidl for veg (they go through so much so quick it is always fresh). Mercadona for meat. Hyper Simply for toilet rolls and sliced bread. Carrefour and Eroski/Caprabo for absolutely sod all. Oh for a Morrisons or Asda.


----------



## anski

Alcalaina said:


> Try Coches de ocasión, coches de segunda mano y venta de coches usados or segundamano.es: anuncios clasificados para comprar y vender portátiles, moviles, coches, pisos...


I have tried them both without success & my friend was swindled out of her car & money by a person who we discovered has dome the same thing to more than 20 other people.


----------



## Alcalaina

anski said:


> I have tried them both without success & my friend was swindled out of her car & money by a person who we discovered has dome the same thing to more than 20 other people.


Bad luck!  But lots of people do use them successfully.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

anski said:


> Its Spain everyone wants things for nothing.


In Spain people sell according to the Spanish secondhand car market. It's probably because they live in Spain.
In the UK cars are sold according to the UK secondhand car market. I'm guessing it's 'cos they live in the UK.

The two markets operate differently.

Here are places where you can check what your car is worth. This can be included in any ad (precio según revista xyz)
Coches de ocasión - Coches de segunda mano - autocasion

AutoScout24: Coches de ocasión, vehículos usados, coche segunda mano

If you do smash your car up don't forget you still have to de register it officially.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

shazzer said:


> Hi, I wonder if you can help me, or point me in the right direction. My daughter is moving back home to the UK and wants to sell her car, she has advertised it in the local papers, and flyers etc, but at the moment no luck. She paid £2100 euros last year for it and the garage will only give her 600 for it, daylight robbery. Please advise and many thanks
> Shazzer a very worried mum


Further thoughts on this.
The second hand market in Spain has never been comparable to that of the UK. Now it's even harder to sell second hand for a good price because new cars are selling for a lot less. The government is helping manufacturers to lower prices of new vehicles in an effort to boost sales. Remember that car sales are one way of calculating the health of a country's economy.


----------



## Alcalaina

*Opticians and glasses*

Bit of a price war going on and chains like General Optica and MultiOptica are offering prescription distance or reading glasses for €59. I just bought some varifocals for €129. 

If you start adding coatings however, the prices shoot up. 

Sight tests are free for everyone in Spain. They just need your NIE. You can take your prescription to another supplier, you don´t need to buy the glasses at the place you get the test done.


----------



## jb44

The cost of living is going through the roof in Euroland,now £ is 1.13 and going downward again.It is ridiculous,the only country to benefit Euroland is Germany,which can power ahead with cheap exports, (now virtually taking on China, the far east is flooded with German exports),while the rest of the club go begging for more and more handouts to keep afloat. The Spanish peseta as it was would be around the 200 mark to the £,advantage Spain, the German D mark would go the other way,dis advantage Germany
Only the break up will things get better,may never happen,but things will get worse,that's for sure


----------



## jojo

jb44 said:


> The cost of living is going through the roof in Euroland,now £ is 1.13 and going downward again.It is ridiculous,the only country to benefit Euroland is Germany,which can power ahead with cheap exports, (now virtually taking on China, the far east is flooded with German exports),while the rest of the club go begging for more and more handouts to keep afloat. The Spanish peseta as it was would be around the 200 mark to the £,advantage Spain, the German D mark would go the other way,dis advantage Germany
> Only the break up will things get better,may never happen,but things will get worse,that's for sure



Wow, what a cheery little post for a sunday morning lol!!!! Thanks for that  

Jo xxx


----------



## anski

The cost of living is going through the roof in Euroland,now £ is 1.13 and going downward again.It is ridiculous,the only country to benefit Euroland is Germany,which can power ahead with cheap exports, (now virtually taking on China, the far east is flooded with German exports),while the rest of the club go begging for more and more handouts to keep afloat. The Spanish peseta as it was would be around the 200 mark to the £,advantage Spain, the German D mark would go the other way,dis advantage Germany
Only the break up will things get better,may never happen,but things will get worse,that's for sure



Think I'll just go & spend the last of my € before they can buy nothing 

You really know how to depress people.


----------



## gabriele

*Cost of living rising - com live in caves*



anski said:


> The cost of living is going through the roof in Euroland,now £ is 1.13 and going downward again.It is ridiculous,the only country to benefit Euroland is Germany,which can power ahead with cheap exports, (now virtually taking on China, the far east is flooded with German exports),while the rest of the club go begging for more and more handouts to keep afloat. The Spanish peseta as it was would be around the 200 mark to the £,advantage Spain, the German D mark would go the other way,dis advantage Germany
> Only the break up will things get better,may never happen,but things will get worse,that's for sure
> 
> 
> 
> Think I'll just go & spend the last of my € before they can buy nothing
> 
> You really know how to depress people.


Too true, somehow depressing to hear about so much money devaluation. 
But hey, gipsy, Tenerife's slopes and mountains are full of natural caves. Warm in winter and cool in summer. Just kidding, but who knows if the trend will not get to live like the Guanches did. Carefree like the goats. And liquor and cigarettes are cheap and so is petrol. Some even seem to survive on fishing.


----------



## thrax

I think with supermarkets it all depends on where you live. Where we are I wouldn't dream of buying fresh veg in Mercadonna or Eroski or Supersol. We have a Supercor which down here is the equivalent of Waitrose; the products are excellent but it is very very expensive and I have only ever seen 2 other customers in there. We have loads of local shops which sell veg and we just shop around until we find stuff that isn't so far beyond it's sell by date that it is unrecognisable. We have one largish independant superkarket called Iranzo which sells almost everything but sometimes at a considerable mark-up. Once a month I do a pretend on-line shop at Tescos and Ocado to see how what I actually bought here compares to UK prices. Obviously some things are cheaper here and some more expenisve but so far during the 7 months we've been here I'd say that shopping here is around 45% cheaper than had I done it in UK. Meat and fish are far cheaper here in my experience. We use Lidl quite a bit although I never thought I would but because they have so many different lines each week it's always a surprise going there and discovering something 'new'. One thing is for sure for me; neither the Spanish nor the Germans have the faintest idea what a sausage is, apart from chorizo which I adore....


----------



## thrax

But I hate German sausage most of which has never even heard of meat...


----------



## Pesky Wesky

thrax said:


> . One thing is for sure for me; neither the Spanish nor the Germans have the faintest idea what a sausage is, apart from chorizo which I adore....


The Spanish are probably very happy with their sausages and the Germans with theirs. There's probably someone on the UK forum right now saying the brits haven't the faintest idea of what a sausage is!!
It just depends on your view point


----------



## gabriele

Pesky Wesky said:


> The Spanish are probably very happy with their sausages and the Germans with theirs. There's probably someone on the UK forum right now saying the brits haven't the faintest idea of what a sausage is!!
> It just depends on your view point


Absolutely... A Curry Wurst Saussage inside a breadroll with Catchup and may be Mustard is a yummy treat not only on German fun fairs. This means that you must know how to eat a saussage. Once, a friend and I shared a saussage with a Spaniard on a Spanish farm in Andalucia. An Olive tree provided shade, while peacocks were keeping us company. Olives, bread and red wine went with a homemade almost bloodred saussage. 
We would never have picked one like that in a shop. Nevertheless, that saussage lived on in our memory as the highlight of a rustic open air party.


----------



## JoCatalunya

I make my own sausages, mind getting the skins is impossible over here so I have to get them from the UK.


----------



## Alcalaina

*Cost of a car service*

Just had our five-year-old Opel Meriva serviced at a little garage here in the village. He changed the oil and gave us the rest of what was in the bottle, because we'd paid for it. He cleaned the oil and air filters by hand and put them back because they were still OK didn't need replacing.

Total cost - €70.

I dread to think what we would have paid in the UK these days.


----------



## JoCatalunya

Alcalaina said:


> Just had our five-year-old Opel Meriva serviced at a little garage here in the village. He changed the oil and gave us the rest of what was in the bottle, because we'd paid for it. He cleaned the oil and air filters by hand and put them back because they were still OK didn't need replacing.
> 
> Total cost - €70.
> 
> I dread to think what we would have paid in the UK these days.


I swear Catalans and Spanish are a completely different breed. Unless you tell the mechanic what it is you want doing, say for a service, he takes the car in, keeps it for a day or 2, then calls you up, tells you it is done and when you ask him what he has done for his 250 euros (min charge), he shrugs his shoulders and says, 'changed the oil'. No cleaning or replacing of filters, no checking of fluid levels, brake wear, tyre wear, windscreen wiper wear, plugs, points, leads or even if they could unlock the damn thing, because the last time it went in, we discovered they hadnt even changed the damn oil. Instead my car had sat on the forecourt of the dealership throughout the whole 2 days they had my car never moving. 
Guess who denuncia'd the little darlings.


----------



## jojo

Alcalaina said:


> Just had our five-year-old Opel Meriva serviced at a little garage here in the village. He changed the oil and gave us the rest of what was in the bottle, because we'd paid for it. He cleaned the oil and air filters by hand and put them back because they were still OK didn't need replacing.
> 
> Total cost - €70.
> 
> I dread to think what we would have paid in the UK these days.


 I had my brake fluid changed ( I put wiper wash in it by mistake!) and while I was there they did my oil too. It came to 24€ (although it would have been more if I'd wanted a factura)

Jo xxx


----------



## jb44

The costs in the above posts are stupid,the average DIYer could do this for a fraction. Life in Spain is very high cost and held there by an artificial pegging regime. I would dearly love to re-locate there but it is like a turkey voting for Christmas. 
In the far east at the mo ,but putting off my return with thoughts of dread. Petrol here is about 60 pence a litre,with all associated costs being approximately the same,but it is the culture difference that gnaws away at me here,I'm not racist (sometimes am I guess) but I would dearly love to launch myself into a quasi British enviroment, can speak the local ( foreign) language and have the choice of various ways of returning to he homeland.


----------



## Alcalaina

jb44 said:


> The costs in the above posts are stupid,the average DIYer could do this for a fraction. Life in Spain is very high cost and held there by an artificial pegging regime. I would dearly love to re-locate there but it is like a turkey voting for Christmas.
> In the far east at the mo ,but putting off my return with thoughts of dread. Petrol here is about 60 pence a litre,with all associated costs being approximately the same,but it is the culture difference that gnaws away at me here,I'm not racist (sometimes am I guess) but I would dearly love to launch myself into a quasi British enviroment, can speak the local ( foreign) language and have the choice of various ways of returning to he homeland.


Hi there - this is a "cost of living" thread, sounds like your grievances go a bit deeper than the cost of petrol? Start a new thread, perhaps? 

PS - I'm not an average DIYer, I want my car serviced by someone who knows what they're doing! I checked and the equivalent service in the UK would be £190.


----------



## gabriele

*The good, the bad and the ugly everywhere*



JoCatalunya said:


> I swear Catalans and Spanish are a completely different breed. Unless you tell the mechanic what it is you want doing, say for a service, he takes the car in, keeps it for a day or 2, then calls you up, tells you it is done and when you ask him what he has done for his 250 euros (min charge), he shrugs his shoulders and says, 'changed the oil'. No cleaning or replacing of filters, no checking of fluid levels, brake wear, tyre wear, windscreen wiper wear, plugs, points, leads or even if they could unlock the damn thing, because the last time it went in, we discovered they hadnt even changed the damn oil. Instead my car had sat on the forecourt of the dealership throughout the whole 2 days they had my car never moving.
> Guess who denuncia'd the little darlings.


Hi, 

this sounds like nothing new. 

There are the good, the bad and the ugly, like everywhere so also in Spain.
They have been around in the past and are there to stay. 
Best of luck and perseverance to find the right people is needed.


----------



## JoCatalunya

gabriele said:


> Hi,
> 
> this sounds like nothing new.
> 
> There are the good, the bad and the ugly, like everywhere so also in Spain.
> They have been around in the past and are there to stay.
> Best of luck and perseverance to find the right people is needed.


There are indeed, but it comes to something when I have tried just about every garage with my other car (Seat was up until recently still under warranty), and still come up wanting. 
By the way, have you ever heard the likes of this.

Friend of mine (Seat owner) had a puncture and had to get a new tyre because of, as he was no where near a Seat garage he got it replaced at another place. When he took his car in for the brakes to be sorted out, the dealership said the car warranty was now null and void because he had someone elses make of tyre on his car, not ones they had fitted. 

My son who speaks fluent Spanish and Catalan told the guy where to get off and luckily they backed down, but can you imagine if my son hadnt been there, our friend would have likely gone off tail between his legs minus his warranty or the like.


----------



## anski

JoCatalunya said:


> There are indeed, but it comes to something when I have tried just about every garage with my other car (Seat was up until recently still under warranty), and still come up wanting.
> By the way, have you ever heard the likes of this.
> 
> Friend of mine (Seat owner) had a puncture and had to get a new tyre because of, as he was no where near a Seat garage he got it replaced at another place. When he took his car in for the brakes to be sorted out, the dealership said the car warranty was now null and void because he had someone elses make of tyre on his car, not ones they had fitted.
> 
> My son who speaks fluent Spanish and Catalan told the guy where to get off and luckily they backed down, but can you imagine if my son hadnt been there, our friend would have likely gone off tail between his legs minus his warranty or the like.



He should put a formal complaint in writing & send it off to CEO of Seat. I am sure they would be interested to know of this.


----------



## yo_soy

To have an x-ray and my wisdom tooth extracted, cost last week in Spain: €300

At my NHS dentist in Wales: £0

And before you ask, no, I didn't fancy flying with toothache.


----------



## Lilo Lil

yo_soy said:


> To have an x-ray and my wisdom tooth extracted, cost last week in Spain: €300
> 
> At my NHS dentist in Wales: £0
> 
> And before you ask, no, I didn't fancy flying with toothache.


I had the same treatment from my local dentist , here in Andalucia, earlier in the year , and it only cost me 40 euros.  Where I came from in Scotland, there were no NHS dentists, you had to go 'private', and treatment cost one helluva lot more there.


----------



## Alcalaina

yo_soy said:


> To have an x-ray and my wisdom tooth extracted, cost last week in Spain: €300
> 
> At my NHS dentist in Wales: £0
> 
> And before you ask, no, I didn't fancy flying with toothache.


Glad to see Wales is still protecting the principle of free healthcare! Are prescriptions still free too?

But your Spanish dentist sounds very expensive. Round here it is €40 for an extraction or a filling and €25 for an X-ray. I´ve just had an entire bridge of three molars done for €640.


----------



## yo_soy

Alcalaina said:


> _Glad to see Wales is still protecting the principle of free healthcare! Are prescriptions still free too?_
> 
> But your Spanish dentist sounds very expensive. Round here it is €40 for an extraction or a filling and €25 for an X-ray. I´ve just had an entire bridge of three molars done for €640.


They are for children, students, OAPS, and there s a reduced rate for adults, so it's cheaper than in England.

Only €40 for an extraction??! I'm in Catalonia so I assume it'd be a little bit more expensive than down south? But that much more! That's the end of my idea of going to Germany on the way home when my contract ends in a month. *sob*


----------



## jb44

Interesting read. Although packing my bags to re locate to Spain I am getting deeply concerned as to the cost of living there. Locally I contribute to blog spots here in Thailand,and am overwhelmed at the negative response from virtually every quarter about my move,especially from recently arrived ex Spanish ex pats here. 
Good to take advice , but it is ridiculous the overwhelming response as to the negative aspects I am led to expect

It cannot be that bad surely?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

jb44 said:


> Interesting read. Although packing my bags to re locate to Spain I am getting deeply concerned as to the cost of living there. Locally I contribute to blog spots here in Thailand,and am overwhelmed at the negative response from virtually every quarter about my move,especially from recently arrived ex Spanish ex pats here.
> Good to take advice , but it is ridiculous the overwhelming response as to the negative aspects I am led to expect
> 
> It cannot be that bad surely?


Why would people be interested in not telling you the truth?! What do they get out of it? 
If they're taking about the job situation, unless you're going to set up a debt collectors, you're probably going to have problems.
If you want to buy a house it's probably going to be cheap.
If you want warm weather there's a bit of this and a bit of that.
There's plenty of stuff on this forum about Spain today. Hope you enjoy reading it


----------



## Alcalaina

jb44 said:


> Interesting read. Although packing my bags to re locate to Spain I am getting deeply concerned as to the cost of living there. Locally I contribute to blog spots here in Thailand,and am overwhelmed at the negative response from virtually every quarter about my move,especially from recently arrived ex Spanish ex pats here.
> Good to take advice , but it is ridiculous the overwhelming response as to the negative aspects I am led to expect
> 
> It cannot be that bad surely?


A lot of "expats" have left Spain with very negative opinions about it, which they feel obliged to share with others. I´m sure they all have their own reasons, but personally I wouldn't want want to be anywhere else.

Good luck with your move and hope you'll be dropping in to "La Tasca" for a chat!


----------



## jb44

Alcalaina said:


> A lot of "expats" have left Spain with very negative opinions about it, which they feel obliged to share with others. I´m sure they all have their own reasons, but personally I wouldn't want want to be anywhere else.
> 
> Good luck with your move and hope you'll be dropping in to "La Tasca" for a chat!


I'll chat and chat and chat (in Spanish too ) It is the country I always wanted to live in. Circumstances have kept me away from it for years. No need to work,got a couple of good pensions and not far off the OAP. 
Looking at areas now to live and seems Costa Blanca is the area to look

:focus:


----------



## papaco95

*Cost of living in Rota, Spain*

Hi I see you have alot of info on the cost of living in Spain, what do you think the cost is to live at Rota, Spain. Looking for an amount monthly for two people. Hoping to retire there with in a year . Thank you for your time.


----------



## Alcalaina

papaco95 said:


> Hi I see you have alot of info on the cost of living in Spain, what do you think the cost is to live at Rota, Spain. Looking for an amount monthly for two people. Hoping to retire there with in a year . Thank you for your time.


Hi there

Rota is not the cheapest place to live because the US military base pushes up property prices - you've probably looked at rental agencies and got an idea of housing costs already. Presumably you picked Rota because of the availability of American goods and services on the base.

The cost of living obviously depends on your lifestyle, so it's impossible to say how much you would need. The Spanish old-age pension is 635 euros a month, so take that as the bare minimum required for survival. I would say a couple could live very comfortably on 1500 to 2000 euros a month, plus rental.


----------



## papaco95

*Living in Rota, Spain*

Hi, thanks so much for your quick reply  Athough 'm American and Hubby is orginaly from the north of Spain, we are moving to Rota next year, I dont think we can use the American Base unless you are military? I wish we could shop from there and get some American items from time to time, but not sure just any american can go on base? We do have a rental quit cheap but I just wanted more info on pricey living I'm so happy theres friends out there thats willing to give out info to others I cant wait to go there and be able to report back info too from Rota. I know gas is high and things go up. But hopfully in a few more years things will balance out like the money exchange crazy!! hahha. Thanks so much, we are working on my papers to register our marriage then my residency. 
Thanks so much please send any more info if you have 








Alcalaina said:


> Hi there
> 
> Rota is not the cheapest place to live because the US military base pushes up property prices - you've probably looked at rental agencies and got an idea of housing costs already. Presumably you picked Rota because of the availability of American goods and services on the base.
> 
> The cost of living obviously depends on your lifestyle, so it's impossible to say how much you would need. The Spanish old-age pension is 635 euros a month, so take that as the bare minimum required for survival. I would say a couple could live very comfortably on 1500 to 2000 euros a month, plus rental.


----------



## gazport

grow your own lenoms


----------



## Alcalaina

*Electricity costs in Spain*

All Spanish electricity contracts have a "_potencia contratada_", or contracted power, i.e. the maximum number of kilowatts you can use before the power cuts out. The higher your _potencia_, the the more you will pay for electricity, both the standing charge and per unit.

Your contracted _potencia_ is shown on your bill. If you have a very low one, say 3 kW, your electricity will be very cheap but you might not be able to boil the kettle or do the ironing with the oven on! For holiday apartments however this might be all you need.

If it is high, say 10 kW or over, you might be paying for more than you need. Check your appliances and work out how many kW you are likely to be using at any one time - e.g. a 2kW electric radiator or aircon unit, 2kW for an electric oven or iron, 1kW for a washing machine and 1kW if all the lights are on. Total 6 kW - so you might want to get a new contract at a lower level and do the washing while you aren't using the oven.

The price increases recently have all applied a higher percentage rise for the higher _potencia _contracts - so if money is tight this is definitely worth checking out. 

We have a 3 bedroom detached house (no pool), occupied by two adults, heated mainly by electricity in winter, a mobile aircon unit only used in high summer, and a 4.6 kw contract, for which the standing charge is €8 per month.. 

The washing machine gets used a couple of times a week, iron a couple of times a year, kettle ten times a day, electric oven five or six hours a week. For the year ending 30 Apr 2011 (the last time we had a bill) it works out as €2..91 a day, or €88.54 a month.


----------



## Alcalaina

gazport said:


> grow your own lenoms


To put in your tin & gonic?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> All Spanish electricity contracts have a "_potencia contratada_", or contracted power, i.e. the maximum number of kilowatts you can use before the power cuts out. The higher your _potencia_, the the more you will pay for electricity, both the standing charge and per unit.
> 
> Your contracted _potencia_ is shown on your bill. If you have a very low one, say 3 kW, your electricity will be very cheap but you might not be able to boil the kettle or do the ironing with the oven on! For holiday apartments however this might be all you need.
> 
> If it is high, say 10 kW or over, you might be paying for more than you need. Check your appliances and work out how many kW you are likely to be using at any one time - e.g. a 2kW electric radiator or aircon unit, 2kW for an electric oven or iron, 1kW for a washing machine and 1kW if all the lights are on. Total 6 kW - so you might want to get a new contract at a lower level and do the washing while you aren't using the oven.
> 
> The price increases recently have all applied a higher percentage rise for the higher _potencia _contracts - so if money is tight this is definitely worth checking out.
> 
> We have a 3 bedroom detached house (no pool), occupied by two adults, heated mainly by electricity in winter, a mobile aircon unit only used in high summer, and a 4.6 kw contract, for which the standing charge is €8 per month..
> 
> The washing machine gets used a couple of times a week, iron a couple of times a year, kettle ten times a day, electric oven five or six hours a week. For the year ending 30 Apr 2011 (the last time we had a bill) it works out as €2..91 a day, or €88.54 a month.


Yes, this is very true. We had ours reduced years ago 'cos a friend told us about it and we've never had any problems with having the hairdryer, washing machine, iron and whatnot going at the same time so I imagine we must have had the potential to light the lights on Weston sea front every night before.


----------



## David88

*Teaching in Spain*



VipersWrath said:


> I am a teacher here in the US and I was considering moving out to Spain to teach English. I was needing to see if anyone could help me find out prices on cost of living out there: housing (renting, buying, property), food, and transportation (fuel vs public trasnportation).
> 
> Thank you and I hope to hear from you soon.


I am new to this forum, but I taught in Spain, in Barcelona in the late 90's. There are services that work with schools to recruit American teachers for American schools overseas.I used the International School Services (ISS) to get my job, and the experience was excellent, such that I am planning to move back to Barcelona, as I'm now retired. While in Spain I also knew people who taught English privately or at language institutes.
Good luck


----------



## gus-lopez

*The cost of Living Sticky*

Electricity up 1,5% on average. Natural gas up 5,69% & butano up 5,70% to 14,80€ inc. iva.  Good job the fuel is coming down !

http://noticias.es.msn.com/msn/20-minutos/noticia.aspx?cp-documentid=158442056


----------



## joselu

*Fresh product prices*

You can find very good products and prices from spanish fresh products from online stores 



Stravinsky said:


> Groceries:
> 
> 12 large eggs €1.07
> Sardines in tomato, 4 x €1.56
> 8 lit bottle mineral water €1.84
> Muesli 750 gm €2.09
> 6 x 1 ltr skimmed milk - €6.30
> Tinned tuna 400 gms €3.75
> Flora marg 600 gms €2.30
> Gammon steak 340 gms €3.75
> 4 x Bifodus 0% fat yoghurts €0.95
> Coffee beans 500 gms €2.20
> Bunch of bananas €1.11
> 6 big apples €2.53
> 1 whole pineapple €2.10
> Crianza Rioja Red wine €3.95
> 300 gms mushrooms €1.00
> Bottle brandy 1 lit €7.45
> 750 gms sugar €1.60
> I litre orange juice €1.19
> 24 cans Mahou beer €9.66
> Oven Chips €1.85
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Car:
> Fuel: €1.05 diesel
> 10 w 40 Motor oil - 5 lit - €29.88


----------



## dream on

1.05 a litre for diesel sounds a lot better than £1.39-£1.46 we're paying in uk at the moment! We spent 3months living in Spain last winter in our campervan and we found food prices very reasonable.


----------



## Guest

dream on said:


> 1.05 a litre for diesel sounds a lot better than £1.39-£1.46 we're paying in uk at the moment! We spent 3months living in Spain last winter in our campervan and we found food prices very reasonable.


We're paying 1.26 in the north right now.


----------



## gabriele

The most used petrol in Tenerife costs about 1 euro, or just under or slightly above. Diesel is cheaper. However, Tenerife has its own refinery in Santa Cruz. I noticed the other day when driving with a friend, while I don't drive now.


----------



## Happyexpat

gabriele said:


> The most used petrol in Tenerife costs about 1 euro, or just under or slightly above. Diesel is cheaper. However, Tenerife has its own refinery in Santa Cruz. I noticed the other day when driving with a friend, while I don't drive now.


We are paying circa 1.26 for diesel in the Alicante area but it is two or three euros cheaper in Almera. We also buy bio diesel down there which is about 5 cents cheaper per litre. We can't find any in the Alicante area!

Actually my concern is the fast rising household weekly budget. Mercadona is now very expensive for many things so we are splitting our shop between it, Lidle, the Markets and Consum. With the driving around it's probably no cheaper but it feels better.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Happyexpat said:


> Actually my concern is the fast rising household weekly budget. Mercadona is now very expensive for many things so we are splitting our shop between it, Lidle, the Markets and Consum. With the driving around it's probably no cheaper but it feels better.


Yes, that's the thing - petrol's probably the most expensive thing you buy so think about the cost there, 
and the time you spend...


----------



## philliplangton

Hi there, forgive me if I am being a bit naive but is the best place for me to research general living costs in Spain. I'm still in the UK at the moment but interested in moving early next year. I was just interested to hear how much couples are spending on general living costs at the moment?

Thanks!


----------



## xabiaxica

philliplangton said:


> Hi there, forgive me if I am being a bit naive but is the best place for me to research general living costs in Spain. I'm still in the UK at the moment but interested in moving early next year. I was just interested to hear how much couples are spending on general living costs at the moment?
> 
> Thanks!


hi

just read this thread


----------



## MaidenScotland

I paid 1.36 a litre today... not a tourist area.

however yesterday I bought in my local cafe
2 cafe con leche,
1 fresh orange juice
1 hot chocolate
1 fanta
2 slices of pizza
1 slice of tortilla
1 boquerones
1 doughnut.

grand total 13 euros 10 cents.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

MaidenScotland said:


> I paid 1.36 a litre today... not a tourist area.
> 
> however yesterday I bought in my local cafe
> 2 cafe con leche,
> 1 fresh orange juice
> 1 hot chocolate
> 1 fanta
> 2 slices of pizza
> 1 slice of tortilla
> 1 boquerones
> 1 doughnut.
> 
> grand total 13 euros 10 cents.


Great value! Hope it was edible 

We're looking for a different café for our bookclub to meet in and my friend has just sent me this. Look at the difference in prices of the coffee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

El Seiscientos
Conde Valle de Suchil, 20
2,35

Tanino
Bravo Murillo, 5
1,65

Caffé d’Italia
Glorieta de Quevedo, 5
2,05

Cafetería Teatro del Canal
Cea Bermúdez, 1
1,20

NuRielle
Glorieta de Quevedo, 6
1,75

I think 2,35 is a reasonable price for coffee on a terraza in a prime spot in Madrid, but the difference in prices is tremendous.


----------



## MaidenScotland

Pesky Wesky said:


> Great value! Hope it was edible
> 
> We're looking for a different café for our bookclub to meet in and my friend has just sent me this. Look at the difference in prices of the coffee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> El Seiscientos
> Conde Valle de Suchil, 20
> 2,35
> 
> Tanino
> Bravo Murillo, 5
> 1,65
> 
> Caffé d’Italia
> Glorieta de Quevedo, 5
> 2,05
> 
> Cafetería Teatro del Canal
> Cea Bermúdez, 1
> 1,20
> 
> NuRielle
> Glorieta de Quevedo, 6
> 1,75
> 
> I think 2,35 is a reasonable price for coffee on a terraza in a prime spot in Madrid, but the difference in prices is tremendous.




yes it was all delicious, great service too


----------



## Pesky Wesky

MaidenScotland said:


> yes it was all delicious, great service too


Well a place to bookmark, definitely.


----------



## tigertina

*Cost of living*

Living in the uk is far more expensive our fuel bills have gone up another 7%. food prices have also increased.


----------



## Happyexpat

Having just got back from the UK I was surprised to find that Guinness is cheaper there than in Alicante! We were able to have lunch is a local pub for a similar price to menu del dia out here, in fact cheaper a couple of times. In fairness it must be added that the price was for two large courses not four smallish ones and didn't include wine etc which menu del dia usually does.
Going round the shops, particularly Morrisons, Tesco's and Sainsbury we were left with strong impression that by utilising their 'special' deals you could shop for less there than here where special offer are very limited.
Bottom line is that prices appeared to have levelled out somewhat but the wages in the UK are far higher. Just don't try smoking!


----------



## jojo

Happyexpat said:


> Having just got back from the UK I was surprised to find that Guinness is cheaper there than in Alicante! We were able to have lunch is a local pub for a similar price to menu del dia out here, in fact cheaper a couple of times. In fairness it must be added that the price was for two large courses not four smallish ones and didn't include wine etc which menu del dia usually does.
> Going round the shops, particularly Morrisons, Tesco's and Sainsbury we were left with strong impression that by utilising their 'special' deals you could shop for less there than here where special offer are very limited.
> Bottom line is that prices appeared to have levelled out somewhat but the wages in the UK are far higher. Just don't try smoking!


Yes, I'd agree with that, altho the initial prices in the UK are higher than, say Mercadona. The BOGOF and similar offers do bring the price down, but then do you really want to buy so many???

............... and dont even talk to me about the price of cigarettes 

Jo xxx


----------



## MacRov

although the price of cigarettes is high in the uk, have you seen the price of patches in Spain!!!
my wife just bought a 2 week box that would probably be about £15 cost her almost 50 euros 
:-O She'll use that as an excuse not to stop haha


----------



## Happyexpat

*Professional quitter*



MacRov said:


> although the price of cigarettes is high in the uk, have you seen the price of patches in Spain!!!
> my wife just bought a 2 week box that would probably be about £15 cost her almost 50 euros
> :-O She'll use that as an excuse not to stop haha


I have given up smoking more times than I can remember or actually want to admit to and decided nearly two years ago to give up giving up. I switched to electronic cigarettes instead. It took me about two weeks to get used to it. The ones in Pharmacia were lousy but I eventually found a company in the UK where the quality of the machine was good, service good and the top up liquids were excellent, the dark plum and menthol ones are excellent. It costs less than 30% overall of the price of Spanish cigs, you can do it almost anywhere, there is no offensive smell, it still looks and tastes like smoke and I get a bit of nicotine but that is all. There is also no smell on my clothes, i don't offend anybody and it is a great conversation piece. Even my heart consultant was 'reasonably' happy. If anybody wants to know the Company PM me.:focus:


----------



## LushKush

*Domestic fuel prices*



tigertina said:


> Living in the uk is far more expensive our fuel bills have gone up another 7%. food prices have also increased.


Recently in the UK domestic fuel prices rose by an average of 17% so I'm sure to make great savings here in Malaga on heating bills alone.


----------



## jojo

LushKush said:


> Recently in the UK domestic fuel prices rose by an average of 17% so I'm sure to make great savings here in Malaga on heating bills alone.



Electricity is quite expensive in Spain tho and that seems to be the main source of heating. So it depends on your source of fuel

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> Electricity is quite expensive in Spain tho and that seems to be the main source of heating. So it depends on your source of fuel
> 
> Jo xxx


not forgetting that it's much harder to heat the average Spanish property than to heat the average UK one


----------



## Pesky Wesky

I don't know how the price compares to the UK, but here it's gone up 40% since 2005...







[/B][/B] Fuente: http://e3illumination.com

A headline from "El País" 2010 says
*El Gobierno aprueba la mayor subida del recibo de la luz en 28 años*

The government passes the biggest rise in the price of electricity in 28 years.

Hopefully you'll be using less electricity in Málaga than in the UK ...


----------



## rangitoto

just read some of the comments on here about the cost of living here in spain well we only got here on sat went to the local market on sun we spent 10.49 euros try getting what we bought in the big supermarkets at home i reckon it would have cost £30 at least and not half the quality as for for the supermarket we bought a litre of red wine for 55 cents and very drinkable bought beer 5.4% worked out about 22p a pint try buying that at morrisons yes guinness is more expensive meat fish all cheaper


----------



## MacRov

Reference month: June, 2011.	

Consumption: 3,500 kWh/year Consumption: 7,500 kWh/year 
€ per kWh electricity € per kWh electricity 
Austria € 0.2079 Austria € 0.1888
Belgium € 0.2137 Belgium € 0.1911
Bulgaria € 0.0907 Bulgaria € 0.0909
Cyprus € 0.2044 Cyprus € 0.2029
Czech Rep, € 0.1461 Czech Rep, € 0.1212
Denmark € 0.2947 Denmark € 0.2553
Estonia € 0.1089 Estonia € 0.1061
Finland € 0.1501 Finland € 0.1313
France € 0.1396 France € 0.1254
Germany € 0.2671 Germany € 0.2511
Greece € 0.1320 Greece € 0.1527
Hungary € 0.1714 Hungary € 0.1632
Ireland € 0.2050 Ireland € 0.1840
Italy € 0.2041 Italy € 0.2568
Latvia € 0.1125 Latvia € 0.1126
Lithuania € 0.1307 Lithuania € 0.1268
Luxembourg € 0.1926 Luxembourg € 0.1796
Malta € 0.1703 Malta € 0.1803
Netherlands € 0.1892 Netherlands € 0.2336
Poland € 0.1509 Poland € 0.1458
Portugal € 0.1813 Portugal € 0.1650
Romania € 0.1134 Romania € 0.1119
Slovakia € 0.1768 Slovakia € 0.1575
Slovenia € 0.1557 Slovenia € 0.1422
*Spain € 0.2013 Spain € 0.1839*
Sweden € 0.1967 Sweden € 0.1707
* United Kingdom € 0.1587 United Kingdom € 0.1432*

Would look better if you could do code or tables in a post but you get the idea


----------



## MacRov

rangitoto said:


> just read some of the comments on here about the cost of living here in spain well we only got here on sat went to the local market on sun we spent 10.49 euros try getting what we bought in the big supermarkets at home i reckon it would have cost £30 at least and not half the quality as for for the supermarket we bought a litre of red wine for 55 cents and very drinkable bought beer 5.4% worked out about 22p a pint try buying that at morrisons yes guinness is more expensive meat fish all cheaper


Sounds like the wine n beer we buy


----------



## Pesky Wesky

rangitoto said:


> just read some of the comments on here about the cost of living here in spain well we only got here on sat went to the local market on sun we spent 10.49 euros try getting what we bought in the big supermarkets at home i reckon it would have cost £30 at least and not half the quality as for for the supermarket we bought a litre of red wine for 55 cents and very drinkable bought beer 5.4% worked out about 22p a pint try buying that at morrisons yes guinness is more expensive meat fish all cheaper


!!
I can't think of a suitable comment!


----------



## Lucie123

Whats the cost of gas bottles and how long approx does one last. whats an average yearly cost


----------



## Alcalaina

Butane is around €15.60 and propane is €13.30. How long it lasts obviously depends how much you use it. We use propane because it gives out less condensation. When we have the gas fire on for five or six hours a day in winter, it lasts about a week to ten days, depending whether it is turned up full or not. 

We also have one for hot water and a hob for cooking, that lasts about a month in winter and six weeks in summer.


----------



## mrypg9

MacRov said:


> Reference month: June, 2011.
> 
> Consumption: 3,500 kWh/year Consumption: 7,500 kWh/year
> € per kWh electricity € per kWh electricity
> Austria € 0.2079 Austria € 0.1888
> Belgium € 0.2137 Belgium € 0.1911
> Bulgaria € 0.0907 Bulgaria € 0.0909
> Cyprus € 0.2044 Cyprus € 0.2029
> Czech Rep, € 0.1461 Czech Rep, € 0.1212
> Denmark € 0.2947 Denmark € 0.2553
> Estonia € 0.1089 Estonia € 0.1061
> Finland € 0.1501 Finland € 0.1313
> France € 0.1396 France € 0.1254
> Germany € 0.2671 Germany € 0.2511
> Greece € 0.1320 Greece € 0.1527
> Hungary € 0.1714 Hungary € 0.1632
> Ireland € 0.2050 Ireland € 0.1840
> Italy € 0.2041 Italy € 0.2568
> Latvia € 0.1125 Latvia € 0.1126
> Lithuania € 0.1307 Lithuania € 0.1268
> Luxembourg € 0.1926 Luxembourg € 0.1796
> Malta € 0.1703 Malta € 0.1803
> Netherlands € 0.1892 Netherlands € 0.2336
> Poland € 0.1509 Poland € 0.1458
> Portugal € 0.1813 Portugal € 0.1650
> Romania € 0.1134 Romania € 0.1119
> Slovakia € 0.1768 Slovakia € 0.1575
> Slovenia € 0.1557 Slovenia € 0.1422
> *Spain € 0.2013 Spain € 0.1839*
> Sweden € 0.1967 Sweden € 0.1707
> * United Kingdom € 0.1587 United Kingdom € 0.1432*
> 
> Would look better if you could do code or tables in a post but you get the idea


Not really as you need to know comparative purchasing power for each country to make meaningful cost comparisons.
When Czechoslovakia and Poland were socialist regimes we used to work out comparisons by reckoniing how many hours you would have to work to pay for electricity, a pair of shoes, a tv....


----------



## vintageblooms

Hello

my husband and i are looking to move to nerja next year and would like to get some idea of the cost for utilities?


----------



## Lucie123

Same here vintage.we looked at a house in frigiliana and the agent gave us estimates of €50 a month electricity €40 a quarter for water


----------



## snikpoh

Lucie123 said:


> Same here vintage.we looked at a house in frigiliana and the agent gave us estimates of €50 a month electricity €40 a quarter for water


As ball-park figures, I think they are about right. Electricity might be higher if you like to keep toastie or if you like to have the air-con on all the time.


----------



## Alcalaina

Lucie123 said:


> Same here vintage.we looked at a house in frigiliana and the agent gave us estimates of €50 a month electricity €40 a quarter for water


I think he's a bit out of touch. Our average electricity over the year is €90 a month, and it's just gone up another 7%. There are two of us in a three-bedroomed house without aircon or swimming pool, and it is in no way "toastie"! We have two electric radiators in use from November to March. We have a gas stove in the living room (cost as described above) and our water is heated by gas.

If you have a woodburning stove or solar water heater I guess it would be a bit less but €50 a month - I don't think so.


----------



## Lucie123

Alcalaina said:


> I think he's a bit out of touch. Our average electricity over the year is €90 a month, and it's just gone up another 7%. There are two of us in a three-bedroomed house without aircon or swimming pool, and it is in no way "toastie"! We have two electric radiators in use from November to March. We have a gas stove in the living room (cost as described above) and our water is heated by gas.
> 
> If you have a woodburning stove or solar water heater I guess it would be a bit less but €50 a month - I don't think so.


. thanks for the info.The house has a wood burner in the living room but the cooker is powered by gas


----------



## mrypg9

We pay around 170 euros a month for electricity and 20 euros for water.
We don't use gas.
That compares favourably with what we think we would pay for a house this size in the UK.
When I add internet/phone and the full Sky tv package I reckon on 300 -350 euros pcm for utilities.


----------



## papaco95

Going to live in Rota, any info on cost of living as per water,electric,and gas bills for 2 persons and grocery bill monthly.Thank You  
Can't wait to get there <3


----------



## Seb*

Alcalaina said:


> I think he's a bit out of touch. Our average electricity over the year is €90 a month, and it's just gone up another 7%. There are two of us in a three-bedroomed house without aircon or swimming pool, and it is in no way "toastie"! We have two electric radiators in use from November to March. We have a gas stove in the living room (cost as described above) and our water is heated by gas.
> 
> If you have a woodburning stove or solar water heater I guess it would be a bit less but €50 a month - I don't think so.


I totally agree! Over the last 3 years we were averageing roughly 90 EUR pcm (lowest 70 EUR and highest 190 EUR depending on time of year and we are very careful with heating (gas central heating and one small electric radiator). That was before the 7% increase to electricity prices as well.

Overall prices have been rising across the field since we arrived in 2009. Even supermarket prices which were very low around our area of the Costa Blanca have gone up. We will be returning to the UK at the end of may and in preparation we have checked our shopping bills against big UK supermarkets and I have to say the difference now is rather small with some things still slightly more expensive (talking pennies here) and more and more even cheaper than here. The only real cheap thing when it comes to groceries is alcohol like wine and beer, which is unbeatable cheap. But since I don't drink, it does not affect me much 

Fuel costs have been rising massively. When we first moved here I paid 88 cents per liter diesel, now it's up to 140 cents!

Internet and telephone is way more expensive, we're now paying roughly 80 EUR per month for our setup, which is on the high end, but expect to pay roughly 40-50 EUR (excluding special offers) pcm.


----------



## Alcalaina

papaco95 said:


> Going to live in Rota, any info on cost of living as per water,electric,and gas bills for 2 persons and grocery bill monthly.Thank You
> Can't wait to get there <3


Hi there! All the info here about living costs applies to Rota too, but because of the Base the local bars and restaurants are a bit more expensive. Your grocery bill depends on your tastes and requirements. There are two of us plus one cat and we eat very well on about €100 a week, which includes wine and other drinks.


----------



## Happyexpat

*Costs*



Lucie123 said:


> . thanks for the info.The house has a wood burner in the living room but the cooker is powered by gas


Our electric bills go up and down every month, why I have no idea! The average bills are around €170 per month same as mrypg9. Some months we get a bill for 40 euros, others 270. I guess its down to them not reading the meter.

We used one of the fan assisted parafin stoves this winter and I have to say it was excellent. Around €40 for the fuel which lasted on average 5 weeks with pretty heavy use, every evening and sometimes during the day as well.

I reckon our overall cost of living has risen by 12-15% in the last six months, not good news!


----------



## papaco95

*Cost of living*



Alcalaina said:


> Hi there! All the info here about living costs applies to Rota too, but because of the Base the local bars and restaurants are a bit more expensive. Your grocery bill depends on your tastes and requirements. There are two of us plus one cat and we eat very well on about €100 a week, which includes wine and other




Thanks All for your info it has helped alot! :clap2:


----------



## gus-lopez

We used to use about 480kwh/month. I've now reducd that to barely 300kwh/month . The bills still the same ! :lol:


----------



## anderso

Coming from Denmark, which is one of the most expensive countries in the world, the price level in Spain is very appealing. I'd say we save at least 25% on our supermarket shopping - some things are half the price or even cheaper.

Stopping somewhere for a sandwich and a drink for lunch is also a lot cheaper than Denmark where I rarely did it simply because the prices are silly. 5 Euro for a soft drink, 6 Euro for a cup of coffee and 11-12 Euro for a sandwich is quite common in Copenhagen.

But one area that's actually more expensive here is internet, mobile phone etc. I suspect there is not enough competition in Spain and that deals are made between the big companies here.

In Denmark I paid about 6 Euro/month for a 3GB data to mobile phone subscription. Down here I would have to sell my car to buy that. Internet connection was about 25 Euro in Denmark, here it is about double, and there seem to be no laws governing how companies advertise their prices. "Special offers" come with a lot of fine print and end up costing a lot more than advertised because of "line fees" and other such nonsense.

If Spain want to get ahead again, the government should start by securing free competition on telecommunications. 

But all in all, the price level is very appealing - including the rent. We pay the same for our huge house in Valencia with a patio and pool as we did for our apartment in Copenhagen.


----------



## Alcalaina

anderso said:


> If Spain want to get ahead again, the government should start by securing free competition on telecommunications.


 They did just that a couple of years ago - before that prices were even higher! In 2008 we were paying nearly €100 a month for 10 Mb ADSL and land line, now it's €29.99. Mobile call rates have plummeted too; thanks to competition from companies like Yoigo all the big players now offer a €6 a month contract.


----------



## jimenato

Alcalaina said:


> They did just that a couple of years ago - before that prices were even higher! In 2008 we were paying nearly €100 a month for 10 Mb ADSL and land line, now it's €29.99. Mobile call rates have plummeted too; thanks to competition from companies like Yoigo all the big players now offer a €6 a month contract.


Who do you get ADSL and landline from for 29.99?


----------



## baldilocks

anderso said:


> But one area that's actually more expensive here is internet, mobile phone etc. I suspect there is not enough competition in Spain and that deals are made between the big companies here.
> If Spain want to get ahead again, the government should start by securing free competition on telecommunications.


BUT the advantage here is if you get your super-duper new cellphone here from Movistar or whoever, you are not tied to them, you can just take out the sim and put in anybody's. Unlike in UK (and possibly in other countries), it is illegal to tie the cellphone to a particular network.


----------



## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> They did just that a couple of years ago - before that prices were even higher! In 2008 we were paying nearly €100 a month for 10 Mb ADSL and land line, now it's €29.99. Mobile call rates have plummeted too; *thanks to **competition from companies like Yoigo *all the big players now offer a €6 a month contract.




One of the more attractive features of capitalism, competition....

We now pay telefonica or whatever it's called roughly 46 euros a month for our internet/landline, still way above UK prices. But then, as OH says, we don't live in the UK...

We did stray to Telitec a couple of years ago when telefonica raised our monthly payment to just under 70 euros but after two months of poor service went back to telefonica/movistar. They gave us an improved deal.

What is rather daft is that every twelve months when the contract ends we get a demand for 70 euros, we tell them we'll find another provider, they give us the same deal as we had before. An awful waste of admin. time.


----------



## Alcalaina

jimenato said:


> Who do you get ADSL and landline from for 29.99?


Jazztel. At the moment it's €31 (plus IVA) if you transfer from another provider.

ADSL 6 Megas + llamadas


----------



## Wannabe Expat

*The Cost of Living*



Stravinsky said:


> Groceries:
> 
> 12 large eggs €1.07
> Sardines in tomato, 4 x €1.56
> 8 lit bottle mineral water €1.84
> Muesli 750 gm €2.09
> 6 x 1 ltr skimmed milk - €6.30
> Tinned tuna 400 gms €3.75
> Flora marg 600 gms €2.30
> Gammon steak 340 gms €3.75
> 4 x Bifodus 0% fat yoghurts €0.95
> Coffee beans 500 gms €2.20
> Bunch of bananas €1.11
> 6 big apples €2.53
> 1 whole pineapple €2.10
> Crianza Rioja Red wine €3.95
> 300 gms mushrooms €1.00
> Bottle brandy 1 lit €7.45
> 750 gms sugar €1.60
> I litre orange juice €1.19
> 24 cans Mahou beer €9.66
> Oven Chips €1.85
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Car:
> Fuel: €1.05 diesel
> 10 w 40 Motor oil - 5 lit - €29.88



Hi Stravinsky

Can you tell me which supermarket in the Oliva area is the cheapest and which supermarkets there are there?


----------



## Wannabe Expat

*The Cost of Living*



Stravinsky said:


> Groceries:
> 
> 12 large eggs €1.07
> Sardines in tomato, 4 x €1.56
> 8 lit bottle mineral water €1.84
> Muesli 750 gm €2.09
> 6 x 1 ltr skimmed milk - €6.30
> Tinned tuna 400 gms €3.75
> Flora marg 600 gms €2.30
> Gammon steak 340 gms €3.75
> 4 x Bifodus 0% fat yoghurts €0.95
> Coffee beans 500 gms €2.20
> Bunch of bananas €1.11
> 6 big apples €2.53
> 1 whole pineapple €2.10
> Crianza Rioja Red wine €3.95
> 300 gms mushrooms €1.00
> Bottle brandy 1 lit €7.45
> 750 gms sugar €1.60
> I litre orange juice €1.19
> 24 cans Mahou beer €9.66
> Oven Chips €1.85
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Car:
> Fuel: €1.05 diesel
> 10 w 40 Motor oil - 5 lit - €29.88



Hi Stravinsky

Can you tell me which supermarket in the Oliva area is the cheapest and what supermarkets are in or near Oliva?


----------



## anderso

mrypg9 said:


> What is rather daft is that every twelve months when the contract ends we get a demand for 70 euros, we tell them we'll find another provider, they give us the same deal as we had before. An awful waste of admin. time.


Yes, that rather amusing detail I recently discovered myself. I was on the phone to ONO (they have an English department, bless them) negotiating the price for my internet connection. I couldn't make heads nor tails of what the actual price was from their "offers" on the web site as these are quite untransparent.

Anyway, we settled on an "offer" but I was told the price would go up (quite dramatically) after 12 months. Then, in the next sentence, I was told I could get "a new discount" after the 12 months. Effectively meaning that the price will go down right after it goes up, as long as I remember to ask for it to go down again. :confused2:

Same applied to the "offer" I got on a 12 month mobile phone deal.


----------



## collettebeckett

*Cost of living in spain*

Hello all,

I was just wondering if anyone could give me a break down for the cost of household bills?
How much roughly do you need to earn a month to cover the bills? 

Thankyou xx


----------



## jojo

As a rule of thumb, you'll need roughly the same as you need in the UK. But it depends on where in Spain you go. Barcelona and Marbella are expensive. Electricity is more expensive than the UK and gas central heating isnt common so in the winter the bill can soon mount up. Food is a bit less, water is less and petrol is about the same. 

Jo xxx


----------



## collettebeckett

Thanks again Jo !

Maybe a silly question but do you pay council tax in Spain? X


----------



## jojo

collettebeckett said:


> Thanks again Jo !
> 
> Maybe a silly question but do you pay council tax in Spain? X


 Yes, thats lower than the UK, altho rising. Obviously it depends on where you live etc as to how much!



Jo xxx


----------



## leedsutdgem

collettebeckett said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I was just wondering if anyone could give me a break down for the cost of household bills?
> How much roughly do you need to earn a month to cover the bills?
> 
> Thankyou xx


For 2 adults and 2 children we pay the following:

Water 70-80€ every 3 months
Electric averages 80€ a month
Gas (for our hot water) 60€ every 2 months
Internet 40€
town hall tax (yearly 450€) depends where you live though
Car tax 70€ (yearly)
Oohhh and dont forget community fees, we pay 82€.


----------



## bob_bob

Spain is still cheap if your an alcoholic chain smoker though


----------



## dunmovin

bob_bob said:


> Spain is still cheap if your an alcoholic chain smoker though


Alcohol price is prety stable, but cigs are fast rising towards UK prices

4years ago, a carton of 200 would cost 22.50 euros, today the same brand costs 39.50.

Still much cheaper than the UK. Petrol and diesel just keeps creeping up,bottled gas is still cheap.


----------



## baldilocks

We have no mortgage and three of us plus two small dogs manage quite comfortably on about 500-600€ per month.


----------



## mrypg9

How long is a piece of string is the answer to that question.

The amount of money you need depends on many variables. Rental and property prices vary considerably. Although to some extent you get what you pay for prices vary according to area. Around here a villa with pool near the coast will rent for around 1500 euros upwards. A two-bed/bath apartment in a decent urb. will go for around 600 euros.

Electricity is expensive. Our bills average around 180 -200 euros a month but we have a large house with pool. Internet is more expensive here. 
Petrol/diesel isn't much less than in the UK. If you rent a cheaper house in the campo away from town you will need a car.

The cost of living will depend entirely on your lifestyle,your expectations and what you have been used to in the UK.

As I said, we rent a large house ten minutes from the coast between Marbella and Estepona (we sold up in the UK and do not wish to buy property here), we are two adults with a large dog, eat out around once a month, run a 4x4 and don''t have a luxurious lifestyle and we need at least 2500 euros a month to be 'comfortable'.

We could cut costs considerably by moving inland and downsizing but we didn't come to Spain to live less well than we did in the UK so we are happy to stay in this house until old age or decrepitude obliges us to find a smaller property.

But I don't think it's cheaper to live here than in the UK. So cigarettes and alcohol are cheaper...you don't live on booze and ****, though..


----------



## Cazzy

We live inland and have a 4 bed house with pool. We think it is more expensive to live here than in the UK

Electric 120 - 150 a month
Water 150 every 3 months (we have a well for the pool and garden)
Rubbish 80 every 3 months
Gas in the summer nothing but in the winter when we have our aga alight 120 a month
Pellets for the heating system 100 a month in the winter
Council tax 600 a year
Car tax 120 x2
Internet 30
Telephone 20
Mobile 20 x2
We also think it costs about 1,000 a year to run our pool, which we maintain ourselves (chemicals , electric)
Petrol/diesel similar to the UK

We don't smoke and rarely drink. It certainly is not as cheap as it used to be here, but that also depends on the exchange rate.


----------



## Cazzy

We live inland and have a 4 bed house with pool. We think it is more expensive to live here than in the UK

Electric 120 - 150 a month
Water 150 every 3 months (we have a well for the pool and garden)
Rubbish 80 every 3 months
Gas in the summer nothing but in the winter when we have our aga alight 120 a month
Pellets for the heating system 100 a month in the winter
Council tax 600 a year
Car tax 120 x2
Internet 30
Telephone 20
Mobile 20 x2
We also think it costs about 1,000 a year to run our pool, which we maintain ourselves (chemicals , electric)
Petrol/diesel similar to the UK

We don't smoke and rarely drink. It certainly is not as cheap as it used to be here, but that also depends on the exchange rate.


----------



## collettebeckett

Thanks all for your advice and opinions

Lots of things to think about and take on board by the sounds of it!! 
Xx


----------



## baldilocks

What it all comes down to is where you live, (location [where in Spain North/South/East/West coastal/inland / mountains/in a depression], type of house [N° of bedrooms/floors], heated or not in winter [and by what method], pool or not, situation [town/village/campo/urb]), your lifestyle (eat out [frequently/occasionally/never], drinker [frequently in bars/occasionally in bars/never in bars/ only drink at home/often/occasionally, etc], smoker [varying], holidays [often/annual/never / in Spain/elsewhere in europe/UK/ more exotic locations]) Food preferences. Car(s) [how many, new/secondhand / flashy/luxury/practical / large/small/4x4], etc.

There are so many variables that the best we can do is say what it works out for us - we have probably the most economic/cheapest lifestyle but we don't stint ourselves. We consider ourselves reasonably well integrated into the village and this shows in the amount of produce that we get given (for example, we have about 30kg potatoes in a box [dark and cool] under our bed, stacks of fruit and veg stored in various forms, bottled, dried, frozen, etc.)


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## baldilocks

Collette
Like your avatar. Would help if we knew more about where you are and where you are from in so that we may be able to give you answers that are more relevant to your experience. For example if you are from the uSA, your experience of foods and cost of living will be different from the UK or Eire or...


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## collettebeckett

Hiya, that's my cute cat... Love her!!

I'm in the UK, Norfolk exactly!
I'm 23 and a carer, fully trained in cheffing and fine dinning waitressing!
I own my own house here, due to inheritance.
I like to move close to costa del sol region, an area with abit of life, pubs, restaurants etc, close to shops, not to far from the coast and a city!
I like to buy a townhouse, with communal garden/pool !

Anything else I can tell you? 

Xx


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## CapnBilly

Cazzy said:


> We live inland and have a 4 bed house with pool. We think it is more expensive to live here than in the UK
> We also think it costs about 1,000 a year to run our pool, which we maintain ourselves (chemicals , electric)



Not sure about your estimate of running costs for your pool, unless it's Olympic sized and/or heated. I have an 8 x 4, and I estimate it costs me about €200 a year for chemicals/ electric etc, unless you're including elbow grease, which I didn't think you were.


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## gus-lopez

CapnBilly said:


> Not sure about your estimate of running costs for your pool, unless it's Olympic sized and/or heated. I have an 8 x 4, and I estimate it costs me about €200 a year for chemicals/ electric etc, unless you're including elbow grease, which I didn't think you were.


Me also. My electric averages 4€ /week to run the pump & the chemicals less than 30€.admittedly it isn't on most the year .


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## brocher

collettebeckett said:


> Hiya, that's my cute cat... Love her!!
> 
> I'm in the UK, Norfolk exactly!
> I'm 23 and a carer, fully trained in cheffing and fine dinning waitressing!
> I own my own house here, due to inheritance.
> I like to move close to costa del sol region, an area with abit of life, pubs, restaurants etc, close to shops, not to far from the coast and a city!
> I like to buy a townhouse, with communal garden/pool !
> 
> Anything else I can tell you?
> 
> Xx


You are so, so lucky at your age to have that house providing you with a cushion for life - and frankly, it would be foolish to risk selling it buying a property in Spain anytime in the next few years. It would be a huge risk to buy a house in an area you may hate, you may not be able to find work - and would be highly likely to lose money selling in Spain - or even completely unable to sell.

While your cooking and waitressing skills could be relatively useful in a tourist area, you would likely be considered no different to any other young Spaniard off the street willing to serve tables for a very low wage and very little security.

Everything Mayotom says about Andalucia is true, but it is also true that unemployment in the area is over 30% generally, and well over 50% for your age group.

Having yur own home should leave you with more disposable income from work than most your age. Use it to the max - save, explore Spain and other countries in your hols, keep improving your qualifications and experience - then think again in a few years, when hopefully things are more stable economically and you are better prepared.


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## bob_bob

Don't sell your UK house, rent it out and use the income to help you in Spain.


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## mrypg9

bob_bob said:


> Don't sell your UK house, rent it out and use the income to help you in Spain.


Assuming the OP can find secure work.....

It would be difficult for two people to live well from the proceeds of renting a £140000 house in Norfolk. I used to rent out properties in East Anglia and unless the market has changed drastically in the past few years such properties won't give rents of the amount you'd need to live on.

Plus....what if the OP fails to find work in Spain and wishes to return to live in her UK property? You can't just kick your tenants out at will these days....


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## codex70

@Cazzy, good reply on the living costs. I know everyone is different, but that's a good example of a family home which I think a lot of people are looking for when they more here.

I'm living in Norfolk and looking to sell our property so we can buy rental properties to cover some of our living expenses. Have to agree though that 1 £140k property rented out isn't going to do much more than cover the rental costs of the property you move to in Spain. May help with some of the bills as well, but you'd be lucky to get more than £6k per annum renting it out. 

We were looking to buy a number of small 2/3 bed properties in a city to rent out in order to give us a buffer if my business struggles, but even with more than 1 property they would nowhere near cover all the costs for a family of 4. If my business stopped earning money, then we'd still have to get an income from somewhere on top of the property rentals.


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## NickZ

Can I ask if everybody is using electric heat?

Even at 0.20€ per Kw/h 120 a month is 600kw/h.


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## CapnBilly

NickZ said:


> Can I ask if everybody is using electric heat?
> 
> Even at 0.20&#128; per Kw/h 120 a month is 600kw/h.


We use air con units for heating (although we do have a gas fire). Not 100% clear what your question is?. Is it to do with usage. On a normal day with no use of heating or cooling we use about 20 units a day ( so about 600kwh per month). This covers water heating, lighting, 2 freezers, 2 fridges, washer, dishwasher, pool pump and a load of computer and entertainment stuff.


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## NickZ

Thanks. So the high cost is related to use.


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## CapnBilly

NickZ said:


> Thanks. So the high cost is related to use.


Yep. Electrickery is very expensive in Spain. Our average per month is about €120, but we are on the timed tariff, so we use an average of 1/3 high cost units (22 cents inc Iva etc) and 2/3 low cost (9 cents). It's just a case of careful management where you can, although we do not sit around in a cold or hot house. So in the summer we use the air con if it goes over 30c but only taking it back to 28c, and in the winter we maintain the air temp around 22c.


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## Alcalaina

NickZ said:


> Thanks. So the high cost is related to use.


There is an added complication - if you contract for _potencia_ of 10kW or less, you pay a substantially lower service charge and rate per unit than for a supply of more than 10kW. 

We have electric heating and a potencia of 4.6kW, which is fine unless I decide to do the ironing while the oven and the radiators are on ... then the system trips out and you are plunged into darkness! Our bills for the past year average €95 per month.


----------



## CapnBilly

Alcalaina said:


> There is an added complication - if you contract for potencia of 10kW or less, you pay a substantially lower service charge and rate per unit than for a supply of more than 10kW.
> 
> We have electric heating and a potencia of 4.6kW, which is fine unless I decide to do the ironing while the oven and the radiators are on ... then the system trips out and you are plunged into darkness! Our bills for the past year average €95 per month.


We have a contract for 9.2kw, which I thinks costs us about €20 a month (inc). In 5 years we,ve only tripped once, when we had 4 air con units, the telly, washer, oven and hob on, and i forgot and turned the dryer on as well.


----------



## bob_bob

mrypg9 said:


> Assuming the OP can find secure work.....
> 
> It would be difficult for two people to live well from the proceeds of renting a £140000 house in Norfolk. I used to rent out properties in East Anglia and unless the market has changed drastically in the past few years such properties won't give rents of the amount you'd need to live on.
> 
> Plus....what if the OP fails to find work in Spain and wishes to return to live in her UK property? You can't just kick your tenants out at will these days....


I did say 'Help you'. I have no idea of rental income from East Anglia but even if she only ended up with £300 a month after fees/expenses it would be a help toward rent, may even cover the rent on a small apartment.

Her main problem is lack of qualifications that will give her a steady income in Spain.

Our rental properties are in Brum and Wales and there is a major shortage of properties, I could rent our few out in no time at all.


----------



## NickZ

Alcalaina said:


> There is an added complication - if you contract for _potencia_ of 10kW or less, you pay a substantially lower service charge and rate per unit than for a supply of more than 10kW.
> 
> We have electric heating and a potencia of 4.6kW, which is fine unless I decide to do the ironing while the oven and the radiators are on ... then the system trips out and you are plunged into darkness! Our bills for the past year average €95 per month.


Around here the normal service is 3KW. 

4.6kw? Luxury


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## mrypg9

bob_bob said:


> I did say 'Help you'. I have no idea of rental income from East Anglia but even if she only ended up with £300 a month after fees/expenses it would be a help toward rent, may even cover the rent on a small apartment.
> 
> Her main problem is lack of qualifications that will give her a steady income in Spain.
> 
> Our rental properties are in Brum and Wales and there is a major shortage of properties, I could rent our few out in no time at all.


Yes, the main problem will be finding work. And without work, the rental income won't be enough to live on.

You couldn't rent an apartment with £300 a month round here...maybe elsewhere on the CdS but would it be worth moving to Spain to live in lower standard accommodation than that you had in the UK?


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## Alcalaina

NickZ said:


> Around here the normal service is 3KW.
> 
> 4.6kw? Luxury


 Yep, we only had 3 kW to start with but we upgraded it when we moved here permanently and brought over a 2kW kettle! Having to turn everything off in order to make a cuppa was a bit much!


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## gus-lopez

Alcalaina said:


> Yep, we only had 3 kW to start with but we upgraded it when we moved here permanently and brought over a 2kW kettle! Having to turn everything off in order to make a cuppa was a bit much!


We have friends with the dual rate & as soon as it gets to dinner time they swop to a gas kettle. I was amazed at their bills as they have a fridge/freezer & a freezer running all the time + the usual w/mc, a/con ,pool pump ,etc. but these are only ever used in the low rate period. Their bill for april was under 21 € & May was 35,43€ , that's for a 5,5kw contract supply & both were actual meter readings !! & I thought I was doing well getting ours down to 60€ !


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## snikpoh

I think the only reason that the electricity 'trips' is if you have an ICP fitted which limits how much power you can draw.


One way 'round this (which I'm not advocating, of course:eyebrows, is to remove the ICP. You can then draw whatever power you require with out the system tripping.

Obviously, for safety reasons, you need to be sure that your wiring is up-to-spec and can carry the required load.



For example, we have a friend eyebrows who had an electrician rewire their house, had an ICP fitted (and checked by Iberdrola) and then had the electrician remove it - in fact it was the electricians suggestion (so I'm told).


So, they're still paying for what they use but without the worry of the system tripping if they use too much at any one time.


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## mrypg9

Is the saving really worth all that effort and fiddling about


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## snikpoh

mrypg9 said:


> Is the saving really worth all that effort and fiddling about


There's no saving per se, simply not having the meter keep tripping is reason enough.

However, there's really no effort. Fifteen minute job to take out ICP - and if one of your friends is an electrician ....


----------



## Cazzy

CapnBilly said:


> Not sure about your estimate of running costs for your pool, unless it's Olympic sized and/or heated. I have an 8 x 4, and I estimate it costs me about €200 a year for chemicals/ electric etc, unless you're including elbow grease, which I didn't think you were.



It is 10x5

Chlorine tablets are expensive, approx 2 a week 120 euro
Winteriser 50 euro 
Pump an average of 7 hours a day for 8 months of the year 340 euro
Water due to evaporation 200/300 a year
This is without any extra treatments like shock or super chlorine or replacing any eqipment.


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## mrypg9

Cazzy said:


> It is 10x5
> 
> Chlorine tablets are expensive, approx 2 a week 120 euro
> Winteriser 50 euro
> Pump an average of 7 hours a day for 8 months of the year 340 euro
> Water due to evaporation 200/300 a year
> This is without any extra treatments like shock or super chlorine or replacing any eqipment.


What do you do with your pool in winter, Cazzy?


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## CapnBilly

Cazzy said:


> It is 10x5
> 
> Chlorine tablets are expensive, approx 2 a week 120 euro
> Winteriser 50 euro
> Pump an average of 7 hours a day for 8 months of the year 340 euro
> Water due to evaporation 200/300 a year
> This is without any extra treatments like shock or super chlorine or replacing any eqipment.


Yeh, size of the pool would make a difference, but couple of observations:

I don't winterise mine, so I run the pump for a hour during November - February (but I still clean it to elimate dirt etc). The rest of the months I increment upto 7 hours in July/August, so June/September are about 5 hours a day, March/April/May//October about 3, so a total of about 1200 hours compared to your 1700. Also some of my hours are during the cheaper time period.

Thought you said you had a well for the pool, but even so, I did notice your water costs were about 3 times mine, so you may pay more. I pay about 1€ a cubic meter. My pool hold about 50 cubic meters, but I would have said I put no more than 10 cubic meters a year. I normally lose about 2 small tile (2cm each) a week in the summer, so even at 3 times the cost, 70- 100 cubic meters seems like quite a high evaporation rate, based on my experience.


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## bob_bob

A bit like a camp site really, OK to have a little fan heater in the tent but plug in a kettle and you trip, really its an awful system in Spain.


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## Cazzy

mrypg9 said:


> What do you do with your pool in winter, Cazzy?


When the water temp drop below 15 turn it all off and put winteriser in it


----------



## Cazzy

CapnBilly said:


> Yeh, size of the pool would make a difference, but couple of observations:
> 
> I don't winterise mine, so I run the pump for a hour during November - February (but I still clean it to elimate dirt etc). The rest of the months I increment upto 7 hours in July/August, so June/September are about 5 hours a day, March/April/May//October about 3, so a total of about 1200 hours compared to your 1700. Also some of my hours are during the cheaper time period.
> 
> Thought you said you had a well for the pool, but even so, I did notice your water costs were about 3 times mine, so you may pay more. I pay about 1€ a cubic meter. My pool hold about 50 cubic meters, but I would have said I put no more than 10 cubic meters a year. I normally lose about 2 small tile (2cm each) a week in the summer, so even at 3 times the cost, 70- 100 cubic meters seems like quite a high evaporation rate, based on my experience.


We do have a well, but have only recently started using it. Our pool is 80 cubic meters and we loose a lot to evaporation, we live near Sevilla and our temps are very high (the last week in the shade it has been over 50 degrees and the pool is in full sun!) We pay 25 euro a cubic meter!!


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## CapnBilly

Cazzy said:


> We do have a well, but have only recently started using it. Our pool is 80 cubic meters and we loose a lot to evaporation, we live near Sevilla and our temps are very high (the last week in the shade it has been over 50 degrees and the pool is in full sun!) We pay 25 euro a cubic meter!!


Ouch, €25 a cubic meter, that is expensive.


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## mrypg9

Cazzy said:


> When the water temp drop below 15 turn it all off and put winteriser in it


Thanks. I'll do that.


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## Cazzy

mrypg9 said:


> Thanks. I'll do that.


It usually says how to do it in English on the product. Any problems let me know and I will try and help.


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## mrypg9

Cazzy said:


> It usually says how to do it in English on the product. Any problems let me know and I will try and help.


And thank you again, very much appreciated!


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## Alcalaina

Read a report somewhere recently about people stealing water from pools overnight - now I know why!


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## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> Read a report somewhere recently about people stealing water from pools overnight - now I know why!


But how could they?? Could that be an urban myth, do you think?
Water isn't that expensive and how could you carry off a load of water unobtrusively?

Water theft isn't a problem in our street, it's house break-ins. Nearly every house has been burgled. People tend to blame it all on Eastern Europeans, especially Romanians.

Some of the houses are quite big including ours so I guess it's assumed we're all well-off. What a mistake-a to make-a as the Italian Captain said in 'Allo 'Allo'. All we have of value are two rather ancient laptops and two tvs. My jewelry consists of ear-rings are from Sainsburys, three pairs for £2.50, and my 'good' watch and a gold necklace chain, both always on my person..

The last ear-rings I had, also from Sainsburys, were stolen in our break-in.


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## baldilocks

*security, break-ins, fire*



mrypg9 said:


> My jewelry consists of ear-rings are from Sainsburys, three pairs for £2.50, and my 'good' watch and a gold necklace chain, both always on my person..


So Sandra had better watch that they don't steal YOU next time!!


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## Claire11

We are £400 better off living in Spain......again it depends on your lifestyle but we find it so much cheaper than the UK. We wouldn't be able to afford to move back now. I do come from Aberdeen which is like london prices so def cheaper out here for us. X


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## GUAPACHICA

Hi, it's great to read so much useful info. here on living costs in various parts of Spain - in very different types of housing

So, here's my contribution - I'm living in an old 'finca' (building), typical of the locality, in a large, but very basic, rented flat. There was no furniture and no kitchen, just gas and water connectors, when I agreed to take it, having searched for months and failed to find a suitable furnished and fully equipped property in my chosen barrio. It was, however, very light with high ceilings - and I am very tall..! 

So, as I was offered a long- term rental contract (5 years), I paid to have a fairly adequate kitchen installed, which required additional plug sockets and electrical cables being fitted, as well as substantial plumbing work being done (the fuse box was new, thank goodness)! Here, long-term tenants expect to pay for most repairs themselves ('tho' not for new kitchens!) as owners are rarely willing and the law has no effect! I wanted the space and light provided by a larger than average flat - most here available for 'all year' rental are much smaller than mine. More spacious 'apartments' are rented to students for the academic year only, and then to tourists in Summer, at a much higher rate! There's an ongoing shortage of 'long term' rental properties here, unlike in other parts of Southern Spain. 

As I love cooking and hosting informal meals, I needed more than the typical small Spanish 'piso' kitchen found here. I replaced the elderly, dangerous gas water- heater with a new electric one - much more expensive to run, but I prefer to have hot water available whenever I need it, and I'm terrified of those gas bottles which live under the sink - would never trust myself to connect them up correctly...!

I also insisted, much to the electrician's amusement, on having 'on/off' switches fitted for each socket - here, the Spanish rely on the fuse box to trip, should there be an electrical fault, so ceramic hobs, ovens etc. cannot normally be turned off fully, in situ - I sleep better knowing I've turned all appliances off, just as in the UK! I paid for all necessary connections to be earthed - shower, water tank, new sink etc. (a legal requirement here for new properties, but not for older ones, like mine!). An English 'leccy' friend advised me, by phone - and my Spanish electrician/plumber (dual competences..!) complied!

So, after all of that, I chose to pay a higher tarif, to ensure sufficient available energy, knowing I'd need to use hugely expensive electric radiators in Winter - tho' still keeping barely warm, due to a complete lack of insulation here and large single-glazed windows! I have 5.75 kw to call on and my current bill is for 110 euros (2 mths).

In Winter, I shared the flat with a friend, and the bills were approx. 200e's. each time. Our respective hot showers combined with my baking bread, zealously,throughout the cold weather, using a large fan/micro/grill oven purchased from England, seemed to bump our costs right up - but, it's those small comforts which are essential for survival, I reckon, lol! 

I've checked my current bill, which includes details of energy- use all year. Basically, in Jan/Feb. our bill was 3 times higher than during the Summer months (May-Oct). In the periods Nov/Dec. and Mar/April it was twice as high. ( As you can see, we have four seasons here...!).

Hope this is helpful,

GCxx




GC.


----------



## Mark Harrison

IVA goes up on the 1st September, so these fuel bills will go up slightly from next month. 

Don't forget to fill your car with fuel before the weekend.


----------



## jojo

Mark Harrison said:


> IVA goes up on the 1st September, so these fuel bills will go up slightly from next month.
> 
> Don't forget to fill your car with fuel before the weekend.



How much is petrol in Spain these days????

Jo xxx


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> How much is petrol in Spain these days????
> 
> Jo xxx


there's a link in the FAQs


----------



## jojo

xabiachica said:


> there's a link in the FAQs


 I'm blonde, where lol????

BTW, my PC has died, so I'm on my steam driven laptop, so I'm not able to maneuver very well 

Jo xxx


----------



## baldilocks

xabiachica said:


> there's a link in the FAQs


Have just filled up in the last few hours with diesel at €1.428 from Repsol, just down the road, Shell are charging €1.442.


----------



## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> I'm blonde, where lol????
> 
> BTW, my PC has died, so I'm on my steam driven laptop, so I'm not able to maneuver very well
> 
> Jo xxx


on the post about 'cost of living' 

Gasolineras repsol. Precio gasolina.


----------



## baldilocks

jojo said:


> I'm blonde, where lol????
> 
> BTW, my PC has died, so I'm on my steam driven laptop, so I'm not able to maneuver very well
> 
> Jo xxx


"I'm blonde," "I'm not able to maneuver" ¿Boracha, también? 

You must also be American from the way you spell "manoeuvre"!


----------



## xabiaxica

baldilocks said:


> "I'm blonde," "I'm not able to maneuver" ¿Boracha, también?
> 
> You must also be American from the way you spell "manoeuvre"!


I could point out your spelling mistake









but I won't.................


----------



## stevelin

In AlT this morning diesel was 1.464 and petrol 1.543 at the BP station


----------



## baldilocks

xabiachica said:


> I could point out your spelling mistake
> 
> but I won't.................


Damn, and I hit the 'r' twice as well - I think this keyboard has nearly come to the end of its useful life since I have to keep relabelling the keys where the character has worn off, in addition, to the double letters that only come out as single.


----------



## jojo

baldilocks said:


> "I'm blonde," "I'm not able to maneuver" ¿Boracha, también?
> 
> You must also be American from the way you spell "manoeuvre"!


 The spell check on this thing is american - when it works!!

Jo xxx


----------



## wiggytheone

Guys while we are on this subject can anyone tell me what they are paying on average a month for their heating (winter months) whether that be gas, electric, or logs or any other combination Costa del Sol, Costa de la Luz

Cheers


----------



## mrypg9

wiggytheone said:


> Guys while we are on this subject can anyone tell me what they are paying on average a month for their heating (winter months) whether that be gas, electric, or logs or any other combination Costa del Sol, Costa de la Luz
> 
> Cheers


Figures on their own mean nothing.
How much you need to spend will depend on so many variables:

size of house
type of house
how well-insulated the property is
whether in sheltered or 'open' area
inland or on the coast
number of rooms you use
how sensitive you are to cold
whether you have young children or vulnerable elderly people in your household
which fuel source you use

and no doubt other factors.

It's like when people ask: 'How much will I need to live in Spain?'
The answer depends on your expectations and lifestyle....and these vary with the individuals.

If I say we would need to spend around 600 euros plus a month to heat our spacious marble-floored house that wouldn't be far from the truth.

But we don't as we heat only the rooms we use which as there are two of us and a dog and we're out most of the day means only a couple are heated - the other rooms i.e. study, guest bedrooms and separate dining-room are freezing - and for a fairly short time, i.e. in the evening.


----------



## wiggytheone

mrypg9 said:


> Figures on their own mean nothing.
> How much you need to spend will depend on so many variables:
> 
> size of house
> type of house
> how well-insulated the property is
> whether in sheltered or 'open' area
> inland or on the coast
> number of rooms you use
> how sensitive you are to cold
> whether you have young children or vulnerable elderly people in your household
> which fuel source you use
> 
> and no doubt other factors.
> 
> It's like when people ask: 'How much will I need to live in Spain?'
> The answer depends on your expectations and lifestyle....and these vary with the individuals.
> 
> If I say we would need to spend around 600 euros plus a month to heat our spacious marble-floored house that wouldn't be far from the truth.
> 
> But we don't as we heat only the rooms we use which as there are two of us and a dog and we're out most of the day means only a couple are heated - the other rooms i.e. study, guest bedrooms and separate dining-room are freezing - and for a fairly short time, i.e. in the evening.


Yer I know there are variables, I've lived here long enough to know that, I'm after some ball park figures from a couple of different people so I can get a feel for what they are paying with different fuels.


----------



## xicoalc

wiggytheone said:


> Yer I know there are variables, I've lived here long enough to know that, I'm after some ball park figures from a couple of different people so I can get a feel for what they are paying with different fuels.


 I live in a casa de campo which is around about 100 years old although has been recently completely refurbished. It's a three bedroomed property and detached – well sort of semi-detached but that's complicated so we will call it detached LOL

it's worth bearing in mind that I work from home so I am constantly using heating in the winter or indeed air conditioning in the summer.

To heat my house I have two of the portable butane heaters – the type that on casters and through the winter months I usually have one in my office all day on very low. The other one is in the open plan lounge/hallway and I tend to use that less but still for several hours a day – particularly in the depths of winter.

I use gas to heat my water also buy bottles. Most of the time there are two people in my house and one of the standard size bottles of gas will supply hot water for 2 to 3 months. The bottles cost around 15 or €16 each

I replace both of the bottles in my heaters during the depths of winter about every 7 to 10 days. Therefore worst-case scenario is that I'm buying two bottles per week which is €30 per week – round about €120 per month.

I also use electric heaters in the bedroom because I don't like the idea of using gas when I'm sleeping. My electricity bill usually comes in at a constant €140-€170 per quarter – as I said, I am using electricity to heat in the winter and to cool in the summer.

Also bear in mind with my electricity consumption that because my house is very isolated I have a roundabout eight or 10 outside lights which are on from late afternoon until I go to bed in the winter months. I also use to computers which are running for about 14 hours every day.

For cooking I use gas but I don't cook every day here because I have a lovely mother-in-law who cooks for me a lot of the time but I tend to find that when one bottle of gas is no longer powerful enough to heat the hot water it goes on to power the gas stove for at least another two months.

So all in all I would say that in the summer months I spend around €50-€70 per month and in the winter months I spend around €150-€200 per month. Having said that also I am a bit of a bad boy because I am not one of those that likes to sit with 14 layers of clothing on so when I am working all day I tend to be here in just a T-shirt which obviously means I have to use more gas to maintain the adequate temperature! I started buying gas bottles about one month ago and am still on the first batch this year but obviously although it's got chilly we are not yet in January or February when my consumption will increase significantly.


----------



## Megsmum

mrypg9 said:


> Figures on their own mean nothing.
> How much you need to spend will depend on so many variables:
> 
> size of house
> type of house
> how well-insulated the property is
> whether in sheltered or 'open' area
> inland or on the coast
> number of rooms you use
> how sensitive you are to cold
> whether you have young children or vulnerable elderly people in your household
> which fuel source you use
> 
> and no doubt other factors.
> 
> It's like when people ask: 'How much will I need to live in Spain?'
> The answer depends on your expectations and lifestyle....and these vary with the individuals.
> 
> If I say we would need to spend around 600 euros plus a month to heat our spacious marble-floored house that wouldn't be far from the truth.
> 
> But we don't as we heat only the rooms we use which as there are two of us and a dog and we're out most of the day means only a couple are heated - the other rooms i.e. study, guest bedrooms and separate dining-room are freezing - and for a fairly short time, i.e. in the evening.


flipping eck 600pm


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## mrypg9

cambio said:


> flipping eck 600pm


Yes, that's what I estimate it would cost us...which is why we don't use electricity.
Our salon has a kind of minstrel's gallery and and I estimate the floor to celing height is a good 8 metres. There is a kind of tower on the landing by the minstrel's gallery. All the heat floats upward and disappears.
There is a hearth in the salon which we used to burn logs in but to get any heat you had to sit about 5 cm from the flame so we gave up on that.
When we need heat we use a paraffin heater....technology has evolved mightily since the Valor stove days.
Our monthly electricity bills are around 200 euros as it stands so if we heated the house with electricity we'd easily treble that, I'm sure.
The bonus is that we never need aircon in summer....

I think it's very hard to give a ball[park figure for heating in Spain. Even the cost of wood varies from place to place.


----------



## ezza

mrypg9 said:


> Figures on their own mean nothing.
> How much you need to spend will depend on so many variables:
> 
> size of house
> type of house
> how well-insulated the property is
> whether in sheltered or 'open' area
> inland or on the coast
> number of rooms you use
> how sensitive you are to cold
> whether you have young children or vulnerable elderly people in your household
> which fuel source you use
> 
> and no doubt other factors.
> 
> It's like when people ask: 'How much will I need to live in Spain?'
> The answer depends on your expectations and lifestyle....and these vary with the individuals.
> 
> If I say we would need to spend around 600 euros plus a month to heat our spacious marble-floored house that wouldn't be far from the truth.
> 
> But we don't as we heat only the rooms we use which as there are two of us and a dog and we're out most of the day means only a couple are heated - the other rooms i.e. study, guest bedrooms and separate dining-room are freezing - and for a fairly short time, i.e. in the evening.



600€ a month! We have bought 400€ worth of oak and orange wood, should last all this winter and into next. We have 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, large lounge and kitchen. As we have no central heating we have to use the ceiling fans to move the heat round.


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## mrypg9

ezza said:


> 600€ a month! We have bought 400€ worth of oak and orange wood, should last all this winter and into next. We have 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, large lounge and kitchen. As we have no central heating we have to use the ceiling fans to move the heat round.




I'll say it again...we do NOT spend that on electric heating. It is an estimate based on our consumption of electricity of around 200 euros a month all year round without heating. To heat the house would cost around 100 euros a week, I'm sure.

Everything in this house that could be marble is: stairs, floors throughout the house.
Great in summer, as I said, not so in winter.


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## ezza

Sorry I thought this subject was about what it DOES cost to to live in Spain.


----------



## boxergirl

Well, I am truly Scottish. We use no heating except for the log fire in the evening - about 75 euros per month. We have a mezzanine above so have sort of an alcove underneath which gets quite cosy. But I always have a blanket at hand. I use a blow heater in the bathroom for having a shower, is only on for the duration of the shower. Electric blanket to warm the bed and get the damp off of it, on for 15 mins max. 

Oh, and 3 boxer dogs to cuddle up to...


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## rodap

Are the monthly bills the same like last year ? I see a lot of info but from 2012 . Thanks.


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## xabiaxica

rodap said:


> Are the monthly bills the same like last year ? I see a lot of info but from 2012 . Thanks.


my bills have been a bit higher.............it was a bit colder & now it seems to be a bit hotter


----------



## rodap

xabiachica said:


> my bills have been a bit higher.............it was a bit colder & now it seems to be a bit hotter


Are living in an apartment ? If yes can you tell me you highest bill for electricity and gas and how warm and cold you keep in the apartment ?? 

Thanks for the info  .


----------



## xabiaxica

rodap said:


> Are living in an apartment ? If yes can you tell me you highest bill for electricity and gas and how warm and cold you keep in the apartment ??
> 
> Thanks for the info  .


I live in a 5 bedroom 3 storey townhouse/adosado

I have aircon & underfloor heating - neither of which I use if possible because the cost is prohibitive & we do just fine with fans in summer & luckily the house doesn't get TOO cold in winter

indoor winter temp indoors can drop to maybe 12º-15º - extra clothes do the trick unless it gets REALLY cold - we did have temps of about 3ºC last winter so I had to turn it on then

in summer, I have no idea what the ambient temp indoors is - but air temp is around 30º outside atm - 10:30pm - strategically placed fans keep us cool enough though

I'll look the bills out tomorrow


----------



## rodap

xabiachica said:


> I live in a 5 bedroom 3 storey townhouse/adosado
> 
> I have aircon & underfloor heating - neither of which I use if possible because the cost is prohibitive & we do just fine with fans in summer & luckily the house doesn't get TOO cold in winter
> 
> indoor winter temp indoors can drop to maybe 12º-15º - extra clothes do the trick unless it gets REALLY cold - we did have temps of about 3ºC last winter so I had to turn it on then
> 
> in summer, I have no idea what the ambient temp indoors is - but air temp is around 30º outside atm - 10:30pm - strategically placed fans keep us cool enough though
> 
> I'll look the bills out tomorrow


 Thanks ! 

I am pretty ok with heat ( summers in Houston are hot and humid, 40 Celsius ) but I like heat in the winter so I need at least 22 degrees . We gonna rent a 2-3 bedroom apartment if we make the move .


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## misspamela

*Bills Bills Bills*

Hi Everyone, 

Gotta say, this forum rules!! I've only just found you, but have been able to find answers to most of my questions in one day!! (have been researching for months trying to get up-to-date info!)

My hubby and I are working on our budget plan to move to Spain.
We've filled in most of the blanks, but need a little help for MALAGA residents.

If you could take a second to give me a rough average as to what you pay for the following bills : *We'll be looking at a 1-2 bedroom apartment*

Hyrdo/Electricity :

Gas :

Internet/Home Phone :

Medical Insurance :

Home Insurance : 

Weekly/Monthly Groceries (avg) : 

Entertainment (eating out, movies, the occasional drinks etc - we're not party people) : 

Would LOVE to hear who you use for these services too. This is what I have been able to collect online so far :
Electricity - Endesa
Gas : Repsol Butano
Internet/Phone : Telefonica/Movistar
Medical Insurance : ??? suggestions
Home Insurance : we've heard Intasure is good...suggestions?

Really appreciate anyone who takes the time to help out - we are on the verge of making our decision but need those blanks filled in. Call us nerds, but we want a full budget plan before we make any decision...and yes, we will be visiting for one month first before we move  

Thanks in advance to all who reply. I will be eagerly awaiting your replies :canada:


----------



## zenkarma

misspamela said:


> We'll be looking at a 1-2 bedroom apartment*


I can't help you with all of those but electricity is coming out at about €26.00 a month (usage + standing charge) but bear in mind that's only occupied for probably 6-8 weeks of the year. I'd triple that for full time, say £50-60 a month. Bear in mind electricity prices are increasing too.

All in insurance for a 1 bed flat from mapfre is about €360 a year.

Don't forget Comunidad costs as those can be significant. This covers the maintenance of the building common parts and usually includes building maintenance, elevators, common parts cleaning, swimming pools etc. I can't recall exactly what it costs but it's in the region of €50-60 a month. Also factor in IBI (Local tax) and Refuse Collection that's about €2 or 300 a year in total. Also water, that's about €70-100 a year.

I think if you budget for about €200-250 a month for these things you won't be far off. Then add food and phone/internet/television.


----------



## misspamela

zenkarma said:


> I can't help you with all of those but electricity is coming out at about €26.00 a month (usage + standing charge) but bear in mind that's only occupied for probably 6-8 weeks of the year. I'd triple that for full time, say £50-60 a month. Bear in mind electricity prices are increasing too.
> 
> All in insurance for a 1 bed flat from mapfre is about €360 a year.
> 
> Don't forget Comunidad costs as those can be significant. This covers the maintenance of the building common parts and usually includes building maintenance, elevators, common parts cleaning, swimming pools etc. I can't recall exactly what it costs but it's in the region of €50-60 a month. Also factor in IBI (Local tax) and Refuse Collection that's about €2 or 300 a year in total. Also water, that's about €70-100 a year.
> 
> I think if you budget for about €200-250 a month for these things you won't be far off. Then add food and phone/internet/television.


That's great! Thanks for taking the time to reply  I will look into MAPFRE.
Appreciate the numbers on the electrical and IBI too !!


----------



## mrypg9

I haven't read through this very long thread but if you choose to live in a fairly large house/villa these are our monthly outgoings:
Electricity:€170 per month, constant throughout the year, that includes cooking, lighting, the usual appliances, pool pump, hot water.
Water: winter, around €30 month, summer double that. That includes irrigating the lawns and swimmimg pool top up.
We don't need air-con or heating.
Phone/internet €50 including unlimited free national calls.


We do our own cleaning and pool maintenance but have a gardener cum handyman, approx.€130 a month.
We are too old, idle and incompetent to be able to do those things ourselves.


----------



## extranjero

zenkarma said:


> I can't help you with all of those but electricity is coming out at about €26.00 a month (usage + standing charge) but bear in mind that's only occupied for probably 6-8 weeks of the year. I'd triple that for full time, say £50-60 a month. Bear in mind electricity prices are increasing too.
> 
> All in insurance for a 1 bed flat from mapfre is about €360 a year.
> 
> Don't forget Comunidad costs as those can be significant. This covers the maintenance of the building common parts and usually includes building maintenance, elevators, common parts cleaning, swimming pools etc. I can't recall exactly what it costs but it's in the region of €50-60 a month. Also factor in IBI (Local tax) and Refuse Collection that's about €2 or 300 a year in total. Also water, that's about €70-100 a year.
> 
> I think if you budget for about €200-250 a month for these things you won't be far off. Then add food and phone/internet/television.


360 for 1 bed flat ins? that's expensive; I pay less than that for 3 bed villa on 600 plot-all risks and accidental damage to buildings and contents-Liberty Seguros.
Best to shop around!


----------



## zenkarma

extranjero said:


> 360 for 1 bed flat ins? that's expensive;


I agree!

Last time I was out there I went into the Mapfre office to negotiate a new insurance deal, but my Spanish isn't that great and none in the office spoke English. I managed to figure out that what they were basically saying was, that to reduce the annual premium I'd have to take out a new policy. I went away to consider this and ended up letting the contract roll over to a new year!

Setting up a new insurance policy is on my to do list, along with so many other things. It's comprehensive insurance and for peace of mind I've left it for the moment but it's something I need to get round to doing. Part of the problem is remembering to get it sorted out whilst I'm out there.


----------



## crookesey

For villas with heated pools what is solar like pay-back wise? The gas cylinders seem reasonable in price, as for buildings and contents insurance I wonder what the unoccupancy clause is, I ask because some forum members don't occupy their properties for a full year.


----------



## Aron

crookesey said:


> For villas with heated pools what is solar like pay-back wise? The gas cylinders seem reasonable in price, as for buildings and contents insurance I wonder what the unoccupancy clause is, I ask because some forum members don't occupy their properties for a full year.


I have a solar heated pool. It's cost me a lot over the years for repairs to the pump and the thermostats. It doesn't work in winter. You might get an extra few weeks use out of the pool. Bear in mind, you have to keep the thing running during hot weather, so your pool can get too warm. We wanted longer use out of the pool, but in all honesty, I would look maybe at a thermal cover. Others may have had a better experience than me.


----------



## KayParkyn

baldilocks said:


> What it all comes down to is where you live, (location [where in Spain North/South/East/West coastal/inland / mountains/in a depression], type of house [N° of bedrooms/floors], heated or not in winter [and by what method], pool or not, situation [town/village/campo/urb]), your lifestyle (eat out [frequently/occasionally/never], drinker [frequently in bars/occasionally in bars/never in bars/ only drink at home/often/occasionally, etc], smoker [varying], holidays [often/annual/never / in Spain/elsewhere in europe/UK/ more exotic locations]) Food preferences. Car(s) [how many, new/secondhand / flashy/luxury/practical / large/small/4x4], etc.
> 
> There are so many variables that the best we can do is say what it works out for us - we have probably the most economic/cheapest lifestyle but we don't stint ourselves. We consider ourselves reasonably well integrated into the village and this shows in the amount of produce that we get given (for example, we have about 30kg potatoes in a box [dark and cool] under our bed, stacks of fruit and veg stored in various forms, bottled, dried, frozen, etc.)


I totally agree with what you say. We (me and hubby) are looking at moving out in September this year. We are in contact with a number of letting agencies, our plan is to rent a 2/3bed apartment, finca, whatever, for a minimum of 6 mths giving us the option of either renewing or buying the property.

We are not looking to work, had enough of that! Our rent out there will be paid for from renting out our 3bed home here - tenants already lined up, waiting for us to go lol. We have a little savings pot that will make up our monthly shortfall.

At the moment our UT's cost us £300 a month, food approx £250 a month. I'm hoping that we can achieve a similar outcome there.

Our lifestyle is considered by many to be completely boring as we don't go out to clubs or pubs, we eat out only half a dozen times a year, don't smoke, I don't drink - hub likes the occasional beer  our main enjoyment is cycling, and to that end we are bringing our tandem with us.

We like to grow our own wherever possible, tomatoes, cucs etc.

I am slightly concerned how much we will have to pay for utilities etc, but they cannot be as bad as we pay here at the moment. Our home is known as a Cornish style house - the walls cannot be insulated because they are made from concrete slats. There is no d/gazing, but the roof is lagged. Our only source of heating is gas c/h running radiators, but all the heat goes straight out of the walls!! That said, it sounds a lot worse than it is lol!

What I'm getting at is that we are fairly immune to the cold but obviously appreciate that as we acclimatise it will feel significantly colder.

I think there's a lot to be said for positive thinking but for being realistic too.

We are so looking forward to getting away from it all and just mooch about as we like


----------



## snikpoh

You will find that a *lot *of Spanish property is very similar - no central heating, no insulation in the walls or ceilings/roof etc. Winters here can still be very cold depending where you live.

Expect water to be about 30 euros/month, electricity to be in excess of 50 euros/month, gas bottles - expect one a month at about 18 euros each.

You will obviously have to pay tax in Spain including tax on your UK rental income.

If you own a property, then also include IBI (council tax), basura (water rates and rubbish collection), plus insurance.


----------



## mrypg9

snikpoh said:


> You will find that a *lot *of Spanish property is very similar - no central heating, no insulation in the walls or ceilings/roof etc. Winters here can still be very cold depending where you live.
> 
> Expect water to be about 30 euros/month, electricity to be in excess of 50 euros/month, gas bottles - expect one a month at about 18 euros each.
> 
> You will obviously have to pay tax in Spain including tax on your UK rental income.
> 
> If you own a property, then also include IBI (council tax), basura (water rates and rubbish collection), plus insurance.


It always amuses me when I read of monthly outgoings of that amount! What you will pay depends on so many factors.

Our electricity and water bills average out at around €300 per month. We are very frugal, never use air con, don't waste water, put on dishwasher etc. after 11.00 pm.
We heat with bottled gas, never all day unless it's really cold and miserable which it rarely is and then only one room. 
OK, we live in a big house with a pool...but I know people who live in pisos whose bills are the same as ours....they spend less on water as we have gardens to irrigate in summer but more on electricity as they have to usenair con...we never do, the house is spacious with windows on all sides.

People really should be discouraged from thinking it's significantly cheaper to live in Spain. It isn't when everything is taken into account. OK, so fruit, fish, vegetables, wine are slightly cheaper, depending on where you lived and what you ate in the UK.
But there are other expenses to be taken into account and these aren't always 'cheap'.

When you retire, you want to enjoy life and for most people that means not lowering the standard of material life they had in the UK.

Quality of life is of course different....you can't put a price on that.


----------



## Lynn R

mrypg9 said:


> It always amuses me when I read of monthly outgoings of that amount! What you will pay depends on so many factors.
> 
> Our electricity and water bills average out at around €300 per month. We are very frugal, never use air con, don't waste water, put on dishwasher etc. after 11.00 pm.
> We heat with bottled gas, never all day unless it's really cold and miserable which it rarely is and then only one room.
> OK, we live in a big house with a pool...but I know people who live in pisos whose bills are the same as ours....they spend less on water as we have gardens to irrigate in summer but more on electricity as they have to usenair con...we never do, the house is spacious with windows on all sides.
> 
> People really should be discouraged from thinking it's significantly cheaper to live in Spain. It isn't when everything is taken into account. OK, so fruit, fish, vegetables, wine are slightly cheaper, depending on where you lived and what you ate in the UK.
> But there are other expenses to be taken into account and these aren't always 'cheap'.
> 
> When you retire, you want to enjoy life and for most people that means not lowering the standard of material life they had in the UK.
> 
> Quality of life is of course different....you can't put a price on that.


I'd have to say that my bills are much more in line with the figures Snikpoh quoted. We live in a 169 sqm house (no pool or garden), don't need aircon as we too have windows on all sides and are in a fairly elevated position so catch whatever breezes are going. We use butano for all cooking and almost all our heating (have electric bathroom heater and occasionally use electric bedroom heaters for guests). My electricity bills are between €45 and €50 per month, water about €17/18 per month, IBI bill is €526 but I only pay €320 because of an Ayuntamiento discount scheme), we don't have separate basura charges, we pay €18 per month for 20mbps cable broadband, don't have a landline phone but by using free minutes with our Vodafone PAYG tariff plus localphone for international calls, we spend less than €10 per month on phone calls, annual expenditure on butano gas is €200 at most.

I went to our local Endesa office on Monday morning to translate for a friend who was changing her contract into her own name. Whilst waiting, we got chatting to a Spanish lady sitting next to us, who was saying she thought electricity had got very expensive in Spain, and asked how much it was in England. I've no real idea nowadays, so I asked my friend what she pays. Her last dual fuel bill, for the winter quarter, was £600 (for a pretty standard 3 bed semi, parents out at work and kids at school during the day). The Spanish lady decided Spain wasn't quite so expensive after all. £600 for one quarter - my total annual spend on gas and electricity is only just over that.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

I tried to update this thread a while ago, and that was when I realised it was nigh on impossible to do comparisons. To start with we all have different suppliers available to us for everything - electricity, gas, supermarkets, mobiles etc. Some of have natural gas others have bottled gas and no way of changing even if they wanted to. Some have wood fires. Some have Jazztel others have Yoigo and find that xxx company isn't available in their area. Some swear by Eroski and others have never heard of it. The IBI differs in each area as does the traffic tax. Our square metres are different, the altitude is different, the orientation of the house is different. Add to that the fact that we all have different preferences and different ways of doing things and you'll see the impossiblity of a real cost of living thread.
For electricity the best you can do is go to company websites and find the unit charge. Same with supermarkets, do a shop on line and compare. Here's a compare supermarkets place from Madrid I think
Busca el más barato - el comparador E.Leclerc España
The rest is up to you to ask previous tenants what their bills were like or to investigate yourselves


----------



## mrypg9

I've just realised I've included phone, internet and tv in my calculations of monthly outgoings.
Last year's monthly averages were electricity €150, water €60 we spent around €25 a month on butane.
So around €230 a month.


----------



## baldilocks

mrypg9 said:


> I've just realised I've included phone, internet and tv in my calculations of monthly outgoings.
> Last year's monthly averages were electricity €150, water €60 we spent around €25 a month on butane.
> So around €230 a month.


That sounds about right. I think our electric averages a bit less than that, our water is about €35 (no pool), butano we use a bombona about every 2-2½ weeks in winter (months in summer). Our IBI is €131 p.a., car tax €59 p.a., basura €39 (3 months). Phone, internet is about €42 on our new contract.

All-in-all we spend about €650 per month and that includes fuel for the car.


----------



## mrypg9

baldilocks said:


> That sounds about right. I think our electric averages a bit less than that, our water is about €35 (no pool), butano we use a bombona about every 2-2½ weeks in winter (months in summer). Our IBI is €131 p.a., car tax €59 p.a., basura €39 (3 months). Phone, internet is about €42 on our new contract.
> 
> All-in-all we spend about €650 per month and that includes fuel for the car.


The first couple of months here, before we got to know people and got involved with things we spent about €20 a month on diesel...we never went very far, spent our time getting to know our immediate environment.
Now, five years later, I need to fill the tank each month.
It costs €120 to fill the LandRover...


----------



## snikpoh

mrypg9 said:


> It always amuses me when I read of monthly outgoings of that amount! What you will pay depends on so many factors.
> 
> Our electricity and water bills average out at around €300 per month. We are very frugal, never use air con, don't waste water, put on dishwasher etc. after 11.00 pm.
> We heat with bottled gas, never all day unless it's really cold and miserable which it rarely is and then only one room.
> OK, we live in a big house with a pool...but I know people who live in pisos whose bills are the same as ours....they spend less on water as we have gardens to irrigate in summer but more on electricity as they have to usenair con...we never do, the house is spacious with windows on all sides.
> 
> People really should be discouraged from thinking it's significantly cheaper to live in Spain. It isn't when everything is taken into account. OK, so fruit, fish, vegetables, wine are slightly cheaper, depending on where you lived and what you ate in the UK.
> But there are other expenses to be taken into account and these aren't always 'cheap'.
> 
> When you retire, you want to enjoy life and for most people that means not lowering the standard of material life they had in the UK.
> 
> Quality of life is of course different....you can't put a price on that.


I couldn't agree more - I was trying to give some sort of idea for the type of property they had mentioned.

We also have a large house (550m2) plus pool, 3 teenagers (who like to shower), etc. etc. Our electricity bill is about 400 euros every two months, water is about 65 every three months, our IBI is about 1200 per year, basura 120 per year, car tax (times two) is 148 euros per year etc. etc.

So it really does depend upon circumstances.


By-the-way, wine is VERY much cheaper. I used to sell wine in UK. For a bottle costing about £15 in UK, I can get the same one here for just over 5 euros (1/4 the price!!!!)


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## mrypg9

Why, I wonder, is our water bill so much higher than yours??
We have no leaks, I've checked the meter. Our summer quarterly bill can be over €300 and the winter quarterly bills up to €90. 
That of course also covers sewerage....the split is around 50/50.


----------



## baldilocks

mrypg9 said:


> Why, I wonder, is our water bill so much higher than yours??
> We have no leaks, I've checked the meter. Our summer quarterly bill can be over €300 and the winter quarterly bills up to €90.
> That of course also covers sewerage....the split is around 50/50.


The price of water varies enormously depending on who is supplying it and where it is coming from.


----------



## Justina

We live in a large two bedroomed flat with dining room, sitting room, generous sized kitchen and very spacious hallway. We have just paid aguas de cadiz 85,13 for the last two months and for electrica de cadiz 153.66 euros for the month of February and March. 
Water involves washing machine, daily showers, usually only two and the usual 
for cooking etc
We have a halogen three barred electric heater that was on from 3 until 11pm most nights in the sitting room. We also cook with electricity, only buying the horrible gas tanks for heating water. We buy two at a time and each costs around 17.50 euros and last for around four weeks. I don't check the precise number of weeks.


----------



## mrypg9

Justina said:


> We live in a large two bedroomed flat with dining room, sitting room, generous sized kitchen and very spacious hallway. We have just paid aguas de cadiz 85,13 for the last two months and for electrica de cadiz 153.66 euros for the month of February and March.
> Water involves washing machine, daily showers, usually only two and the usual
> for cooking etc
> We have a halogen three barred electric heater that was on from 3 until 11pm most nights in the sitting room. We also cook with electricity, only buying the horrible gas tanks for heating water. We buy two at a time and each costs around 17.50 euros and last for around four weeks. I don't check the precise number of weeks.


Our winter quarter bill last year was slightly more than yours, €91 and I'm guessing we'd use roughly the same amount in winter.
But our endesa bill is almost double yours and yet apart from three or four hours of using electricity to heat the water we seem to use less than you as we never use it to heat rooms.
We don't run the pool pump all year round and only for a couple of hours each day in summer months.
I just don't get these discrepancies in utility bills


----------



## baldilocks

mrypg9 said:


> Our winter quarter bill last year was slightly more than yours, €91 and I'm guessing we'd use roughly the same amount in winter.
> But our endesa bill is almost double yours and yet apart from three or four hours of using electricity to heat the water we seem to use less than you as we never use it to heat rooms.
> We don't run the pool pump all year round and only for a couple of hours each day in summer months.
> I just don't get these discrepancies in utility bills


But what electricity band are you on? As far as I understand it, once you are above the lowest (government controlled rate) the fixed charge and the per kWh rises quite dramatically. We are on the lowest and it is quite rare for the trip to operate and the trip is a good reminder to watch how much power you use.


----------



## Lynn R

baldilocks said:


> But what electricity band are you on? As far as I understand it, once you are above the lowest (government controlled rate) the fixed charge and the per kWh rises quite dramatically. We are on the lowest and it is quite rare for the trip to operate and the trip is a good reminder to watch how much power you use.


Yes, the standing charges for potencia make a huge difference. We are only on 3.45kw, but I checked my old bills yesterday to answer a question elsewhere, and the standing charge has effectively doubled since this time last year. In March 2013 it was only €6 per month (the bills were issued monthly at that time) and now it's just over €23 for two months. However, the unit cost of electricity has gone down, therefore my total bills are slightly lower.

It is making a big difference to second home owners, who often can't understand why their bills are now so high when they haven't been there using power.


----------



## mrypg9

We're on the highest band. We're about to have a smartmeter installed and I'm wondering if we should change.

We often have dishwasher, washing machine, oven, water heater and pool pump on simultaneously....not that often, though.


----------



## gus-lopez

Lynn R said:


> Yes, the standing charges for potencia make a huge difference. We are only on 3.45kw, but I checked my old bills yesterday to answer a question elsewhere, and the standing charge has effectively doubled since this time last year. In March 2013 it was only €6 per month (the bills were issued monthly at that time) and now it's just over €23 for two months. However, the unit cost of electricity has gone down, therefore my total bills are slightly lower.
> 
> It is making a big difference to second home owners, who often can't understand why their bills are now so high when they haven't been there using power.


& that is what the government proposed & instructed the electric companies to do. It was in all the papers last year. They want the standing charge to represent the largest amount as the vast majority of 2nd/3rd homeowners pay hardly anything as they use very little. They wish them to be paying large amounts .

They reduced the kw/hr charge last year at the time the standing charge went up. August I believe. 
Iam one of the fortunate ones who come out winning in that the reduction per hour saved me 19€ on the 1st bill over the increased standing charge. Even with the increased charge per kw/hr I am still well in front . The last bill, showed that tax ,iva, green tax ,etc; is now 60% of the bill against 40% for the actual electricity production/supply costs.


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## guyhildebrand

this is 2015............ anything newer to say on overall cost of living or is each island different ?!?


----------



## Tall Traveler

guyhildebrand said:


> this is 2015............ anything newer to say on overall cost of living or is each island different ?!?


As far as I can tell, the Costa del Sol costs about half of the cost to live in Seattle, plus you get better weather. I would guess Ventura would be similar cost to Seattle. The problem in Spain is the unemployment and low pay....I would hate to have to work in Spain. Seem people are working long days for low pay.


----------



## Lynn R

Spain has had negative inflation for the last few months, so theoretically at least prices should be a bit cheaper. However, as with any country, the things you actually buy/use affects your perception of inflation. 

For example, the price of bottled gas has recently gone down from €17.50 to €15.80, which is good for me, but makes no difference to someone who doesn't use bottled gas. Conversely, the price of petrol/diesel has gone down because of falling oil prices, but as I don't have a car I don't notice that.

The biggest difference for those of us who receive an income in sterling in recent months has been the very much better exchange rate, which to me at any rate is making life in general feel much cheaper. I don't follow the dollar/euro exchange rate so I'm not sure if the same would apply to you.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Tall Traveler said:


> The problem in Spain is the unemployment and low pay....I would hate to have to work in Spain. Seem people are working long days for low pay.


This is certainly true.
It was true before the crisis and I can't see it changing within the next decade or so...

When I started writing on this forum I tried to give info about the cost of living in an organised manner, maybe even on this thread, and found it impossible. People don't buy the same products, even in the basics. Take bread for example, what is the basic loaf? Personally I wouldn't touch sliced white, nor pistola with a barge pole. I would literally rather go without, but to others that's the only bread to have. Milk. Here we can get fresh milk no problem (although is it really as it will last for a week+++ in the fridge) so we sometimes buy that, but others buy what ever the supermarket has on offer and that can be literally half the price. Then with the fluctuations in price from region to region and supermarket to supermarket...
Most posts about the cost of living end up with people showing surprise at what ever others buy and the price (be it low or high) that they pay with no real conclusion ever being reached.


----------



## Rabbitcat

Very true. 

Some people cant do without he more expensive luxuries from home whilst others go with whats available locally. Add to that some are on a tighter budget than others etc and soon guesstimates of actual cost of living are meaningless 

Just for a nosey we went into a Lidl when in Spain last month and generally thought much of the items were on a par with UK prices

No doubt there will be members posting on here soon saying my findings are rubbish and Lidl are cheaper/ dearer in Spain!!!

For what its worth after paying rent we reckon €1500 a month for food, utilities occasional meal out etc would see us comfortably living- but again others will understandably have very different costings


----------



## baldilocks

Rabbitcat said:


> Very true.
> 
> Some people cant do without he more expensive luxuries from home whilst others go with whats available locally. Add to that some are on a tighter budget than others etc and soon guesstimates of actual cost of living are meaningless
> 
> Just for a nosey we went into a Lidl when in Spain last month and generally thought much of the items were on a par with UK prices
> 
> No doubt there will be members posting on here soon saying my findings are rubbish and Lidl are cheaper/ dearer in Spain!!!
> 
> For what its worth after paying rent we reckon €1500 a month for food, utilities occasional meal out etc would see us comfortably living- but again others will understandably have very different costings


Well I suppose if you are eating caviar and fillet steak every day, you might just manage on €1500 per month. We three + two dogs manage quite comfortably on 650 € per month, but we don't believe in waste and that saves a huge amount of money.


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## xabiaxica

baldilocks said:


> Well I suppose if you are eating caviar and fillet steak every day, you might just manage on €1500 per month. We three + two dogs manage quite comfortably on 650 € per month, but we don't believe in waste and that saves a huge amount of money.


even if I take my rent out of the equation we three & our 4 cats wouldn't manage on that

utilities incl internet & phone are over 200 a month & SS another nearly 300 & then there's income tax on top of that .......

& we'd sort of like to eat


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## Rabbitcat

Lol Baldi I can assure you I am not well off especially with food ( have never tasted caviar- but would love to!!!!)

Our figures include our payments into private healthcare and also setting a bit aside each month in case of rainy days etc

We are not rich whatsoever but reckon even with meagre interest rates ( best we can see is 2 %) if we put our capital into savings it will pay most/ all of our rent ( around €600 a month) and then I receive a €1500 Crown pension for everything else. 

Not a flash lifestyle but comfortable for the two of us. But as I say everyone has a very different idea of what constitutes a comfortable lifestyle.


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## Madliz

I saw this recently, a good guide to current costs of living in Málaga:

Cost of living in Malaga, Spain: July 2015 | East of Málaga


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## Tall Traveler

Madliz said:


> I saw this recently, a good guide to current costs of living in Málaga:
> 
> Cost of living in Malaga, Spain: July 2015 | East of Málaga


That's a very good run down of costs. We figure we could live in Marbella, where we currently own a vacation home, for about 75% of an average US city. and probably half the price of the nearest city to us in the USA, Seattle.


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## 746786

*costs for 2017*



Stravinsky said:


> Groceries:
> 
> 12 large eggs €1.07
> Sardines in tomato, 4 x €1.56
> 8 lit bottle mineral water €1.84
> Muesli 750 gm €2.09
> 6 x 1 ltr skimmed milk - €6.30
> Tinned tuna 400 gms €3.75
> Flora marg 600 gms €2.30
> Gammon steak 340 gms €3.75
> 4 x Bifodus 0% fat yoghurts €0.95
> Coffee beans 500 gms €2.20
> Bunch of bananas €1.11
> 6 big apples €2.53
> 1 whole pineapple €2.10
> Crianza Rioja Red wine €3.95
> 300 gms mushrooms €1.00
> Bottle brandy 1 lit €7.45
> 750 gms sugar €1.60
> I litre orange juice €1.19
> 24 cans Mahou beer €9.66
> Oven Chips €1.85
> 
> 
> Car:
> Fuel: €1.05 diesel
> 10 w 40 Motor oil - 5 lit - €29.88


Great thread Stravinsky. Can anyone update some of these prices for this year please? I was also wondering about:

Car road tax
Motorcycle road tax
Low cost lunch/ dinner in a restaurant
Expensive lunch/ dinner in a restaurant

Many thanks


----------



## Deiter

Frank B said:


> Can anyone update some of these prices for this year please? I was also wondering about:
> 
> Motorcycle road tax
> Low cost lunch/ dinner in a restaurant
> Expensive lunch/ dinner in a restaurant
> 
> Many thanks


Many bars/restaurants do really excellent Menu del Dia's, usually 3 courses with a drink and prices are very affordable at around 8-10 euros a head as a guide (often in some places only lunchtimes).

Expensive is really hard to quote as it varies so much but recently celebrated a friends birthday at a very good restaurant in Granada and with wine and after dinner drinks the cost for two was a shade under 80 euro's


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## danboy20

I think in general, the cost of living in Spain is much lower than other EU countries. I do however believe, that to be truly comfortable, you need to have your own business - where there are a lot of opportunities for people that want to work hard.


----------



## danboy20

Frank B said:


> Great thread Stravinsky. Can anyone update some of these prices for this year please? I was also wondering about:
> 
> Car road tax
> Motorcycle road tax
> Low cost lunch/ dinner in a restaurant
> Expensive lunch/ dinner in a restaurant
> 
> Many thanks



Car tax depends on the engine size, but my 3 litre Mercedes costs about 90€ per year.

Your restaurant question is difficult, because how long is a piece of string? 

However, for a decent slap up meal for two people, I pay between 100-150 Euro. But if you go somewhere really swanky like the Marbella Club, you won´t get much change from 400 €. 

You can eat very well in Spain, for a fraction of the cost of UK. Likewise, alcohol is still much cheaper here. 

A pint is generally 2-3€ - much cheaper thank UK.


----------



## mrypg9

danboy20 said:


> I think in general, the cost of living in Spain is much lower than other EU countries. I do however believe, that to be truly comfortable, you need to have your own business - where there are a lot of opportunities for people that want to work hard.


To be truly comfortable you need to have had a successful business, sold it, invested the proceeds,so you can get up in the morning with the whole day in front of you, free to do whatever you want, secure in the knowledge that you are well placed to weather whatever financial storms lie ahead. In fact, to be truly comfortable, all you need is an income that matches your chosen lifestyle,
That's our experience. It's true that there are indeed many opportunities for people that want to work hard. Equally, any seasoned business owner knows that there are many factors beyond your control that can wipe out almost overnight years of hsrd work and investment.


----------



## tebo53

mrypg9 said:


> To be truly comfortable you need to have had a successful business, sold it, invested the proceeds,so you can get up in the morning with the whole day in front of you, free to do whatever you want, secure in the knowledge that you are well placed to weather whatever financial storms lie ahead. In fact, to be truly comfortable, all you need is an income that matches your chosen lifestyle,
> That's our experience. It's true that there are indeed many opportunities for people that want to work hard. Equally, any seasoned business owner knows that there are many factors beyond your control that can wipe out almost overnight years of hsrd work and investment.


What absolute rubbish councillor!!

You dont need to have had a successful business at all to be comfortable etc etc. Many of us expats have worked hard all their lives and invested in private pensions and committed to saving and investing. My private pension income along with my UK government pension affords me an exceptional lifestyle thank you. 

I agree that you need to have an income to suit your lifestyle, which some expat can't seem to grasp, but I cannot agree with you on you quoted posting as it shows contempt to hard working employees.


----------



## Alcalaina

danboy20 said:


> Car tax depends on the engine size, but my 3 litre Mercedes costs about 90€ per year.
> 
> Your restaurant question is difficult, because how long is a piece of string?
> 
> However, for a decent slap up meal for two people, I pay between 100-150 Euro. But if you go somewhere really swanky like the Marbella Club, you won´t get much change from 400 €.
> 
> You can eat very well in Spain, for a fraction of the cost of UK. Likewise, alcohol is still much cheaper here.
> 
> A pint is generally 2-3€ - much cheaper thank UK.


Car tax also depends on where you live, and other factors. Our old 1.8 litre Opel cost over €100. The new 1.4 eco model is just €50.

We live 30 miles from the coast where prices are much lower. We've never paid more than €80 for a meal, and that was a special birthday treat with langostinos for starters, retinto beef steak and plenty of wine. On average we pay about €60 for a restaurant meal in the evenings, €16 at lunchtime (3 course menú del día, always good value). 

Going out for a few drinks and tapas is around €10 per head, which is what we normally do. A large beer (jarra) is €2 or €2.50, a small one (caña) is €1, a glass of Rioja €2 and a very large G&T €3.50. Tapas €1.50-€2.50.


----------



## Alcalaina

tebo53 said:


> What absolute rubbish councillor!!
> 
> You dont need to have had a successful business at all to be comfortable etc etc. Many of us expats have worked hard all their lives and invested in private pensions and committed to saving and investing. My private pension income along with my UK government pension affords me an exceptional lifestyle thank you.
> 
> I agree that you need to have an income to suit your lifestyle, which some expat can't seem to grasp, but I cannot agree with you on you quoted posting as it shows contempt to hard working employees.


I agree with you, but to be fair she was quoting another poster on the successful business thing.

In my experience the best way to ensure a comfortable early retirement, apart from saving and planning, is not to have any kids...


----------



## Megsmum

Alcalaina said:


> I agree with you, but to be fair she was quoting another poster on the successful business thing.
> 
> In my experience the best way to ensure a comfortable early retirement, apart from saving and planning, is not to have any kids...


Or debts
Be realistic


We live on a very limited income

We are realistic about what we can and cannot afford 

Realism. Sadly lacking in many people's financial thoughts


----------



## danboy20

mrypg9 said:


> To be truly comfortable you need to have had a successful business, sold it, invested the proceeds,so you can get up in the morning with the whole day in front of you, free to do whatever you want, secure in the knowledge that you are well placed to weather whatever financial storms lie ahead. In fact, to be truly comfortable, all you need is an income that matches your chosen lifestyle,
> That's our experience. It's true that there are indeed many opportunities for people that want to work hard. Equally, any seasoned business owner knows that there are many factors beyond your control that can wipe out almost overnight years of hsrd work and investment.



To Clarify, I meant for a person in working age (I´m 36) it is better to have your own business in Spain. I know highly qualified people, who accept a wage of 1000 - 1500 Euro per month - which is one of the reasons many qualified Spaniards leave the country.


----------



## 746786

*less is more*

it sounds like one man's basic living is another man's luxury. It's possible to define your level of comfort in relation to other people's lifestyles, or life in your home country, either up or down. It's also possible, as we've been attempting to do, to redefine your ideas of necessity and comfort quite radically by focussing more on 'need' than 'want'. Not that this is for everyone obviously. Our society is really based on accumulating as much as possible and keeping the machinery oiled with our hard-earned money. Changing ideas on what you really need is a good way of re-focussing on what's most important to you in life. 

For example, in the UK we rarely 'go out' to eat mainly due to the fact that we can cook better food at home (with friendlier service!) for a fraction of the cost of eating in a restaurant. Neither of us drink enough to justify sitting in a pub very long either. But we love being out in the sense of being outdoors: walking, camping, cycling etc., which never has to cost much. Travelling is similar now. It's nice to stay at a good hotel (ok, define 'good'), but over the years I've realised my best times were had motorcycling and sleeping in my tent or a hammock, with the treat being a stay in a hotel for a night or two. The contrast between roughing it a little and having a taste of 'normal' accommodation makes the luxury all the sweeter. 

Yet in our society more money, more comfort, more luxury, a flash car, a big house all come with the expectation that we'll somehow be happier, and vice versa. I've had those things and they honestly didn't keep me happy for very long.


----------



## Moyra

Hi
We took a friend out for tapas lunch on Thursday, just the normal glass or two of wine each 6 x tapas, 3 x coffee to finish and the cost was €14. 
Cannot beat that sort of price in the UK.


----------



## Alcalaina

Megsmum said:


> Or debts
> Be realistic
> 
> 
> We live on a very limited income
> 
> We are realistic about what we can and cannot afford
> 
> Realism. Sadly lacking in many people's financial thoughts


Sure, my comment was tongue in cheek, but there has to be some compensation for remaining childless! I'm pretty sure that if we'd had to put a couple of kids through university, help them get on the housing ladder, pay for their weddings etc we wouldn't have been able to retire at 55.

I've never had a problem living within my means. I inherited an ingrained fear of debt, and it's held me in good stead. The first six years in Spain, before our pensions kicked in, we lived on £1000 a month (though the exchange rate was better then).


----------



## Alcalaina

danboy20 said:


> To Clarify, I meant for a person in working age (I´m 36) it is better to have your own business in Spain. I know highly qualified people, who accept a wage of 1000 - 1500 Euro per month - which is one of the reasons many qualified Spaniards leave the country.


Well, that really does depend on how successful your business is. Far too many young hopefuls (and some not so young) have tried to set up in business in Spain and worked 12 hours a day while watching their life savings go down the pan. It's one of the most punitive countries in the EU to be self-employed.

Wages are lower in Spain but that doesn't necessarily mean a life of poverty and deprivation. Housing costs are much, much lower ... if you earn €1500 a month and pay €200 rent you might consider yourself quite well off.


----------



## 746786

Alcalaina said:


> It's one of the most punitive countries in the EU to be self-employed. QUOTE]
> 
> What makes it that way?


----------



## Alcalaina

Results of a survey of supermarket prices in Spain. The differences between the cheapest and the most expensive can be up to €3,000 a year for the average household.



> On the podium for the cheapest national chains are Alcampo, Mercadona, Carrefour, Simply Market, Maxi Dia, Dia Market, Carrefour Market, Lidl, Eroski, and Dia Plaza. The most expensive national chains are El Corte Inglés, followed by Supercor, and Carrefour Express, among others.


https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/09/28/inenglish/1506592992_095409.html


----------



## Alcalaina

Frank B said:


> Alcalaina said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's one of the most punitive countries in the EU to be self-employed. QUOTE]
> 
> What makes it that way?
> 
> 
> 
> The flat rate social security contributions and tax structure.
Click to expand...


----------



## Pazcat

Well 2 kids, a dog, a 9-5 job, a mortgage and all that entails and we still manage to live comfortably and within our means.
I'd take that over the idea of trying to run a business here any day.

Seriously, everyone is different. Broad statements never help.


----------



## mrypg9

tebo53 said:


> What absolute rubbish councillor!!
> 
> You dont need to have had a successful business at all to be comfortable etc etc. Many of us expats have worked hard all their lives and invested in private pensions and committed to saving and investing. My private pension income along with my UK government pension affords me an exceptional lifestyle thank you.
> 
> I agree that you need to have an income to suit your lifestyle, which some expat can't seem to grasp, but I cannot agree with you on you quoted posting as it shows contempt to hard working employees.


Rubbish to you!!!! You have totally misinterpreted what I posted. I was in fact disagreeing with the poster and if you note the use of the phrase 'behind you' you might understand.

My main point, as always, is that your income matches your lifestyle. 
I too have a private pension and a local government pension which keeps me in the style to which I have been accustomed.

Two other points: correct address would be 'former' or 'ex' councillor. I hope that I will be able to call myself Concejala if PSOE wins the next local elections and I am placed high up enough on the list (which I doubt).
Secondly, I rather resent your suggestion that my posting 'shows contempt for employees'. Our employees had the best pay and conditions in our area, so much so that in spite of our entreaties they refused to join a union as they said they did not see the need.
So the two Company Directors were the only people connected with the business to be members of a trades union.
In fact, my partner and Managing Director was, prior to becoming a business owner, a member of the National Negotiating Committee of her Union.

Perhaps I should make the point I was trying to make crystal clear: being comfortable and running a successful or indeed any business isn't just about making money, if you're lucky. Business owners rarely clock off at 5pm , go home and forget about their work. Being a responsible business owner means thinking about the well-being not only of yourself and your profit but of your employees' welfare and job stability.
It's hard enough in the UK but anyone running a business in Spain deserves a medal, imo.
My partner worked twelve hour shifts often seven days a week. I, a local government employee, (Education), also took work home but I didn't have to make sure my salary came over a counter, pay for my insurance , had long paid holidays and enjoyed generous paid sick leave.
And of course my salary like yours was paid for by taxes from business.


----------



## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> Well, that really does depend on how successful your business is. Far too many young hopefuls (and some not so young) have tried to set up in business in Spain and worked 12 hours a day while watching their life savings go down the pan. It's one of the most punitive countries in the EU to be self-employed.
> 
> Wages are lower in Spain but that doesn't necessarily mean a life of poverty and deprivation. Housing costs are much, much lower ... if you earn €1500 a month and pay €200 rent you might consider yourself quite well off.


I would, personally, prefer to play the violin in a brothel in return for a good meal than run a business or rent property in Spain.
Or anywhere. 
OH ran our business, I taught school, as they say in the US of A.
I know who had the easier life.


----------



## Rabbitcat

Well we are poor but still have a good life

Infact we are sooooooo poor that it directly dictated where we could get an appt

In the high tower blocks with no lift the higher up you are the cheaper it is

We are so high up that on a clear day we can see our furniture
Infact at nights we have to leave the window open to let the moon pass throughu

As a general observation nearly everyone on here seems well off-rich gits!!!!


----------



## Rabbitcat

Well they all seem richer than us

The walls of our appt are so thin we can dip our bread in next doors soup

Infact the dividing walls are so thin we can hear our neighbours changing their minds


----------



## 746786

mrypg9 said:


> I would, personally, prefer to play the violin in a brothel in return for a good meal than run a business or rent property in Spain.


I think the government would view playing violin in a brothel as a business, and as such you'd be required to file an income tax return each year...:juggle:


----------



## Isobella

Surprises me that posters usually ask the same questions in these COL threads. eg. The cost of a coffee, beer or eating out. Surely the most important would be will I pay more tax, Utilities etc. IBI is much cheaper but if earning less than around £300 weekly in UK there are rebates. Having to pay hundreds more in tax and electricity etc. Can quickly wipe away the cheap euro beer.

I would say if managing in UK you can manage in Spain. Although allow flexibility for currency fluctuations.


----------



## xabiaxica

Isobella said:


> I would say if managing in UK you can manage in Spain. Although allow flexibility for currency fluctuations.


That's what I always say if asked. 

If your income is from the UK & you manage there, you'll manage in Spain.


----------



## Chica22

When we first came out here 11 years (obviously much younger) I actually enjoyed the thought of 'downsizing' going from 2 huge salaries to a tiny one!!!! Buying fresh produce, managing a budget, living on the beach in shorts and t shirts and drinking one euro wine with the occasional cheap menu del dia.

We planned and budgeted everything, (Tax, IBI, Electric, water, insurance etc.) what we didnt take into account was a few years down the line, I missed nice clothes, an up to date iphone, a new car, going out for nice meals without thinking of the price, going on holiday. I accept everyone is not the same, and many are able to live on a tight budget and actually enjoy it. For me, the novelty wore off... thankfully when pensions and other income kicked in.

In the past year, we have employed a pool cleaner (the effort got too much for my husband), we have help with the garden (my husband is now 11 years older), these are things that 11 years ago he actually enjoyed doing rather than sitting in an office from 9 to 5. We have replaced an old car with a new one, we are now in the process of changing fridges, TVs, cookers etc. etc all of which are over 10 years old. My husband has just had a bill of over 5,000 euros for teeth implants. I now realise one thing I never budgeted for was 'old age'


----------



## 746786

That's one reason I still feel jittery about moving out to Spain. The thought of walking into an expensive trap makes me very hesitant. Especially when income isn't guaranteed and I'm still looking at income ideas. That's a good point about getting older, having less energy, and your ideas changing. Another reason I'm wary for myself.

It would be good if people could start to comment on cost of living from the standpoint of taxes, insurances, water bills, property taxes, bottled gas and so on. I'm not sure how easy it is to provide figures that would allow someone like me to calculate the outgoings I could expect to have. But it would be good if I could get a rough idea of the kind of money I'd be looking at each month for these kinds of expenses.

I'm aiming to live off-grid as far as possible, so I'll be relying on my solar system. But there may be an option to connect to mains electricity (no idea of the connection fee but the cables allegedly run by the land we have in mind). Composting toilet, so no sewerage costs. We'll need bottled gas (CEPSA). Water is irrigation water from underground aquifers that will be filtered, so I'll have some water charges. Bicycles for local transport. Motorcycle and car for further afield. Any other hidden expenses else anyone can think of would be helpful....


----------



## Alcalaina

Chica22 said:


> When we first came out here 11 years (obviously much younger) I actually enjoyed the thought of 'downsizing' going from 2 huge salaries to a tiny one!!!! Buying fresh produce, managing a budget, living on the beach in shorts and t shirts and drinking one euro wine with the occasional cheap menu del dia.
> 
> We planned and budgeted everything, (Tax, IBI, Electric, water, insurance etc.) what we didnt take into account was a few years down the line, I missed nice clothes, an up to date iphone, a new car, going out for nice meals without thinking of the price, going on holiday. I accept everyone is not the same, and many are able to live on a tight budget and actually enjoy it. For me, the novelty wore off... thankfully when pensions and other income kicked in.
> 
> In the past year, we have employed a pool cleaner (the effort got too much for my husband), we have help with the garden (my husband is now 11 years older), these are things that 11 years ago he actually enjoyed doing rather than sitting in an office from 9 to 5. We have replaced an old car with a new one, we are now in the process of changing fridges, TVs, cookers etc. etc all of which are over 10 years old. My husband has just had a bill of over 5,000 euros for teeth implants. I now realise one thing I never budgeted for was 'old age'


I completely relate to all this! As well as a new car and bathroom, we've just forked out for air conditioning, having accepted that older people suffer more from the extreme heat we've been getting lately. 

But I still look on those six frugal pre-pension years as a price worth paying for early retirement. I could have been stuck in an office all week rather than walking in the countryside or spending the afternoons in a hammock with a good book.


----------



## Alcalaina

Frank B said:


> That's one reason I still feel jittery about moving out to Spain. The thought of walking into an expensive trap makes me very hesitant. Especially when income isn't guaranteed and I'm still looking at income ideas. That's a good point about getting older, having less energy, and your ideas changing. Another reason I'm wary for myself.
> 
> It would be good if people could start to comment on cost of living from the standpoint of taxes, insurances, water bills, property taxes, bottled gas and so on. I'm not sure how easy it is to provide figures that would allow someone like me to calculate the outgoings I could expect to have. But it would be good if I could get a rough idea of the kind of money I'd be looking at each month for these kinds of expenses.
> 
> I'm aiming to live off-grid as far as possible, so I'll be relying on my solar system. But there may be an option to connect to mains electricity (no idea of the connection fee but the cables allegedly run by the land we have in mind). Composting toilet, so no sewerage costs. We'll need bottled gas (CEPSA). Water is irrigation water from underground aquifers that will be filtered, so I'll have some water charges. Bicycles for local transport. Motorcycle and car for further afield. Any other hidden expenses else anyone can think of would be helpful....


Our property and water taxes are about a quarter of what they were in Oxford for a property twice the size. Does depend where you are though, as town halls can set their own rates. Bottled gas is currently about €11 a bottle, we use it for cooking and hot water and it lasts 2-3 months. Petrol and diesel are slightly cheaper here, but electricity and internet/phone contracts are more expensive.

Public transport is much cheaper in Spain as is anything which involves labour costs - builders, car mechanics, hairdressers etc. This is because wages are much lower. Though in places where rents are high, you won't see such a difference.

The biggest factor of course, if your income is in sterling and your expenditure is in euros, is the exchange rate ... and nobody knows where that's going to go.


----------



## 746786

Thanks Alcalaina. What size gas bottle is that?

Anyone have any idea what electricity and telephone companies charge to connect you if you're fairly close to their services e.g. 30 metres away? Alicante/ Valenciana area


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## Alcalaina

Frank B said:


> Thanks Alcalaina. What size gas bottle is that?


It's the standard domestic size bombona - 11kg? The price is controlled by the government.

There are bigger ones used by restaurants etc but I don't think their price is regulated.


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## Lynn R

Alcalaina said:


> I completely relate to all this! As well as a new car and bathroom, we've just forked out for air conditioning, having accepted that older people suffer more from the extreme heat we've been getting lately.
> 
> But I still look on those six frugal pre-pension years as a price worth paying for early retirement. I could have been stuck in an office all week rather than walking in the countryside or spending the afternoons in a hammock with a good book.


Yes, I agree completely. When we moved, 10 years before I would be able to draw my employers' pensions, we knew we'd have to manage on a fairly tight budget (which we did without feeling any sense of hardship, I still went back to the UK twice a year and bought new clothes, we had 3 or 4 short breaks a year in Spain, replaced what we needed to replace, etc. Those 10 extra years out of the "rat race" were priceless to me.

But we did it in the knowledge that our income after those 10 years would just about double, and increase again once I eventually become eligible for my state pension as well. 

We've just "future proofed" ourselves as far as we possibly can, having moved from our inaccessible old town house with lots of stairs to an ático apartment with lift, and air conditioning, very near the town centre and had a new kitchen and bathrooms with walk-in showers (no baths to climb in and out of) and furnished it from scratch. It has certainly depleted the bank balance but we think at least we'll be comfortable and we too now pay people to do jobs which once we would have tackled ourselves. Comes to us all, I guess.


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## Isobella

Alcalaina said:


> Our property and water taxes are about a quarter of what they were in Oxford for a property twice the size. Does depend where you are though, as town halls can set their own rates. Bottled gas is currently about €11 a bottle, we use it for cooking and hot water and it lasts 2-3 months. Petrol and diesel are slightly cheaper here, but electricity and internet/phone contracts are more expensive.
> 
> Public transport is much cheaper in Spain as is anything which involves labour costs - builders, car mechanics, hairdressers etc. This is because wages are much lower. Though in places where rents are high, you won't see such a difference.
> 
> The biggest factor of course, if your income is in sterling and your expenditure is in euros, is the exchange rate ... and nobody knows where that's going to go.


Wages are lower, that's all right then


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## Isobella

Chica22 said:


> When we first came out here 11 years (obviously much younger) I actually enjoyed the thought of 'downsizing' going from 2 huge salaries to a tiny one!!!! Buying fresh produce, managing a budget, living on the beach in shorts and t shirts and drinking one euro wine with the occasional cheap menu del dia.
> 
> We planned and budgeted everything, (Tax, IBI, Electric, water, insurance etc.) what we didnt take into account was a few years down the line, I missed nice clothes, an up to date iphone, a new car, going out for nice meals without thinking of the price, going on holiday. I accept everyone is not the same, and many are able to live on a tight budget and actually enjoy it. For me, the novelty wore off... thankfully when pensions and other income kicked in.
> 
> In the past year, we have employed a pool cleaner (the effort got too much for my husband), we have help with the garden (my husband is now 11 years older), these are things that 11 years ago he actually enjoyed doing rather than sitting in an office from 9 to 5. We have replaced an old car with a new one, we are now in the process of changing fridges, TVs, cookers etc. etc all of which are over 10 years old. My husband has just had a bill of over 5,000 euros for teeth implants. I now realise one thing I never budgeted for was 'old age'


Good points, repairs and renewals, can happen anywhere. Spanish houses can be high maintenance particularly swimming pools. Lugging gas bottles around isn't great either, nothing like flicking a switch. If living in an isolated place there may be a time when you cannot drive.


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## mrypg9

Isobella said:


> Good points, repairs and renewals, can happen anywhere. Spanish houses can be high maintenance particularly swimming pools. Lugging gas bottles around isn't great either, nothing like flicking a switch. If living in an isolated place there may be a time when you cannot drive.


That's happened to three friends of ours. Two are women married to much older men, one of whom has never had a driving licence and whose husband has had a stroke. 
One of them sold their house in the village and moved out to an isolated part of the campo last summer. Of course in summer and autumn it was idyllic. But then the rains came that awful December and they were cut off by a swollen raging river (in summer a delightful little stream) and had no electricity for three weeks (they did not have the foresight to equip themselves with a generator). They added to their woes by falling out with their only near neighbour, not a wise course of action when living out in the boonies.

In the last year we've replaced the fridge/freezer, washing machine and pool pump. I can't bear thinking about the cost of car repairs...new clutch for the Freelander was only one of many. I've just had my driving licence renewed for five years but I'm aware that even where we live, on the edge of the village, walking to shops in 40C heat in the summer when I'm deemed unfit to drive is not an option.

I still think that selling all our properties and renting was the best option for us. We pay a very low rent for a house of this size in this area which is why we're willing to pay for replacement of electrical items and for small repairs. We've lived here for almost nine years now but I can see that in a few years we'll be thinking of moving to a smaller place within easy reach of shops etc.

When considering a move anywhere, not only in Spain, think long term is a must.


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## Lynn R

mrypg9 said:


> That's happened to three friends of ours. Two are women married to much older men, one of whom has never had a driving licence and whose husband has had a stroke.
> One of them sold their house in the village and moved out to an isolated part of the campo last summer. Of course in summer and autumn it was idyllic. But then the rains came that awful December and they were cut off by a swollen raging river (in summer a delightful little stream) and had no electricity for three weeks (they did not have the foresight to equip themselves with a generator). They added to their woes by falling out with their only near neighbour, not a wise course of action when living out in the boonies.
> 
> 
> When considering a move anywhere, not only in Spain, think long term is a must.


As I have never had a driving licence, living anywhere where good public transport wasn't within easy reach was never an option when we decided to move to Spain. I do know several people in the same situation as me who did opt to buy rural property and relied on their partner to drive them everywhere, I do think that's a very risky thing to do in the long term.


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## xabiaxica

Stravinsky said:


> Groceries:
> 
> 12 large eggs €1.07
> Sardines in tomato, 4 x €1.56
> 8 lit bottle mineral water €1.84
> Muesli 750 gm €2.09
> 6 x 1 ltr skimmed milk - €6.30
> Tinned tuna 400 gms €3.75
> Flora marg 600 gms €2.30
> Gammon steak 340 gms €3.75
> 4 x Bifodus 0% fat yoghurts €0.95
> Coffee beans 500 gms €2.20
> Bunch of bananas €1.11
> 6 big apples €2.53
> 1 whole pineapple €2.10
> Crianza Rioja Red wine €3.95
> 300 gms mushrooms €1.00
> Bottle brandy 1 lit €7.45
> 750 gms sugar €1.60
> I litre orange juice €1.19
> 24 cans Mahou beer €9.66
> Oven Chips €1.85
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Car:
> Fuel: €1.05 diesel
> 10 w 40 Motor oil - 5 lit - €29.88


I thought it would be interesting to compare the prices from nearly 10 years ago with today's

Here are a few 
12 large eggs : then 1.07; now 1.35
8 litre bottle mineral water: then €1.84; now 9 litres 2.10
6 x 1 ltr skimmed milk: then 6.30; now 3.42 or 4.92 for a premium brand
Bottle brandy 1 lit: then €7.45; now cheapo 5.99 average brand 8.99


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## Lynn R

xabiachica said:


> I thought it would be interesting to compare the prices from nearly 10 years ago with today's
> 
> Here are a few
> 12 large eggs : then 1.07; now 1.35
> 8 litre bottle mineral water: then €1.84; now 9 litres 2.10
> 6 x 1 ltr skimmed milk: then 6.30; now 3.42 or 4.92 for a premium brand
> Bottle brandy 1 lit: then €7.45; now cheapo 5.99 average brand 8.99


Just one random item, but we bought a kilo of oven chips from MasKompras last week which were €1.05 which on Stravinsky's list were €1.85. That's normally an expensive supermarket compared to Mercadona, but for some reason these seemed cheap.


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## Lynn R

Isobella said:


> Good points, repairs and renewals, can happen anywhere. Spanish houses can be high maintenance particularly swimming pools. Lugging gas bottles around isn't great either, nothing like flicking a switch. If living in an isolated place there may be a time when you cannot drive.


Lugging gas bottles around never bothered me and still doesn't, but I have never mastered the knack of being able to change one properly so I thought in the long term it would be better to go all-electric or I might one day find myself standing on the doorstep trying to accost a neighbour to change one for me, not really a good idea!


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## 746786

Whilst looking at the subject of 'the cost of living' in Spain I've recently become more aware of some of the 'hidden' taxes in Spain that don't necessarily exist in the UK. Like tax on private transactions between citizens when buying and selling vehicles. Someone mentioned that if I wanted to build on a bit of land the local council (Alicante area) wants to know how much is being spent on materials and they then want a percentage of what you paid! Another one is paying taxes on the private sale of houses and land....

 Can anyone elaborate on any of these 'tapeworm' taxes, whether there are any more than the ones I've mentioned here, and what the percentages are etc? And is it both buyer and seller who pay the tax?

It's pretty discouraging news all the same.


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## Roy C

Lynn R said:


> Lugging gas bottles around never bothered me and still doesn't, but I have never mastered the knack of being able to change one properly so I thought in the long term it would be better to go all-electric or I might one day find myself standing on the doorstep trying to accost a neighbour to change one for me, not really a good idea!


How are you finding it all electric? Ours is all electric and the bills are not as scary as some people would have you believe imho.


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## danboy20

Lynn R said:


> Lugging gas bottles around never bothered me and still doesn't, but I have never mastered the knack of being able to change one properly so I thought in the long term it would be better to go all-electric or I might one day find myself standing on the doorstep trying to accost a neighbour to change one for me, not really a good idea!


You lift up the orange safety valve, and push down until you hear it click....


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## Lynn R

Roy C said:


> How are you finding it all electric? Ours is all electric and the bills are not as scary as some people would have you believe imho.


We haven't actually moved in yet (don't ask, absolute nightmare but are keeping fingers crossed it will be this weekend, OH got a message yesterday to say the guy we'd booked to move us couldn't do it as his van had broken down and needed a new engine, but he managed to find an alternative, just hope nothing else goes wrong) so I haven't been able to find out. It's good to know you don't find the bills too onerous, we've gone for the most energy efficient appliances we could and are used to being conscious of how much energy we're using (not leaving lights on in empty rooms, always using the washing machine on cold wash, etc) and that won't change, so I'm hoping we find the same as you. But by this time next year I might have joined the merry band complaining about the extortionate cost of electricity in Spain, who knows?


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## Lynn R

danboy20 said:


> You lift up the orange safety valve, and push down until you hear it click....


I've had it demonstrated to me time out of number and tried it myself, but it's the pushing down bit that seems to defeat me, I am obviously a wimp, although I can carry one of the bottles around with no problem.


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## 746786

*Costs of Owning Property in Spain*

Information on the costs of buying and owning property in Spain

https://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/buying-property-in-spain/costs/


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## Roy C

We haven't moved here full-time as yet, due to father in law not being too good with dementia type illness so we are going back and forward a few months there and a couple here. We have found the food shopping still a bit cheaper here for most things but not as good as it was with the stronger pound. We were walking around Estepona old town yesterday and were planning the future (old age), we always said it would be an apartment in Torre del Mar but now Estepona is in with a shout as it has so much to offer and still got the Spanish authenticity about it. Hopefully that is a while down the road yet and when our income will improve, once the OAP kicks in and we are over here renting out our place in Sussex etc I'm not going to wish my life away over it and just enjoy what we have now, which really we can't complain (reasonable works pension), even with the change to our current plans.


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## Megsmum

It's also important to realize that Spain is not the U.K. Regarding selling your house on to downsize.

We live in the campo... moved 3/5 years ago... now 59.... we fully expect to have to sell up and move on again within the next ten years. BUT we know:fingerscrossed: barring major disasters, once both our state pensions kick in we can rent a house in the village and either use this house , like the Spanish, as our campo Huerta ?O and for family holidays whilst it's on the market for 4 years waiting to sell.: we are not dependent on it to downsize


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## Roy C

Megsmum said:


> It's also important to realize that Spain is not the U.K. Regarding selling your house on to downsize.
> 
> We live in the campo... moved 3/5 years ago... now 59.... we fully expect to have to sell up and move on again within the next ten years. BUT we know:fingerscrossed: barring major disasters, once both our state pensions kick in we can rent a house in the village and either use this house , like the Spanish, as our campo Huerta ?O and for family holidays whilst it's on the market for 4 years waiting to sell.: we are not dependent on it to downsize


Similar to us but we are not in the campo just on the edge of a hilly village. We could either rent a place while waiting or sell at a price that would move it but either way that's not for now.


----------



## Overandout

I think it is totally understandable that the cost of living is measured habitually with first necessity and common items, such as bread, milk, energy etc.

But honestly, most people planning to move to another country will routinely check these things as they come to mind and are easily verifiable.

But the times when I have been really shocked were usually when having to buy or contract the "one off" items or uncommon services which for some reason are inexplicably expensive.

A current example which springs to mind is a spare part for my motorcycle helmet. In the UK I can buy this for 3.50 GBP, but the cheapest I can find it in Spain is 18€, with some stockists in Madrid charging 25€. In absolute terms of course it is not so significant as luckily I do not have to worry about spending 12 or 13€ more than in the UK for it. But in percentage terms that is around 260% more expensive!!

Similarly with tyres, I have often found myself buying from UK retailers and paying extra postage and still saving over local prices.

I'm sure there will be many other "niche" market examples, because these areas seem to be where Spain over-charges the consumer.


----------



## snikpoh

Frank B said:


> Whilst looking at the subject of 'the cost of living' in Spain I've recently become more aware of some of the 'hidden' taxes in Spain that don't necessarily exist in the UK. Like tax on private transactions between citizens when buying and selling vehicles. Someone mentioned that if I wanted to build on a bit of land the local council (Alicante area) wants to know how much is being spent on materials and they then want a percentage of what you paid! Another one is paying taxes on the private sale of houses and land....
> 
> Can anyone elaborate on any of these 'tapeworm' taxes, whether there are any more than the ones I've mentioned here, and what the percentages are etc? And is it both buyer and seller who pay the tax?
> 
> It's pretty discouraging news all the same.


The tax mentioned above is 'transfer tax' (ITP I think in Spain). A little like stamp duty in UK on houses. ITP is only paid by the buyer although other arrangements can be made, of course.


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## Chica22

Lynn R said:


> We haven't actually moved in yet (don't ask, absolute nightmare but are keeping fingers crossed it will be this weekend, OH got a message yesterday to say the guy we'd booked to move us couldn't do it as his van had broken down and needed a new engine, but he managed to find an alternative, just hope nothing else goes wrong) so I haven't been able to find out. It's good to know you don't find the bills too onerous, we've gone for the most energy efficient appliances we could and are used to being conscious of how much energy we're using (not leaving lights on in empty rooms, always using the washing machine on cold wash, etc) and that won't change, so I'm hoping we find the same as you. But by this time next year I might have joined the merry band complaining about the extortionate cost of electricity in Spain, who knows?


We have two properties, now both completely electric. This year we have changed the aircon systems in two bedrooms, living room ect., in our main home (the other system was 11 years old), the difference is incredible, quieter machines that seem to cool the rooms quicker. This year it seems to have been far hotter for longer (or maybe that again is an age thing!!!). We have had two bedroom aircon units running all night at 25c, and the living room air con on for at least 8 hours, our electric bill was only 20 euros more per month than normal!!!! Our electric bill is an average of 100 euros per month, which I dont find too excessive based on the fact we never skimp with electric and dont have any other utilities bills (except water and logs in winter)


----------



## 746786

Overandout said:


> I think it is totally understandable that the cost of living is measured habitually with first necessity and common items, such as bread, milk, energy etc.
> 
> But honestly, most people planning to move to another country will routinely check these things as they come to mind and are easily verifiable.
> 
> But the times when I have been really shocked were usually when having to buy or contract the "one off" items or uncommon services which for some reason are inexplicably expensive.
> 
> A current example which springs to mind is a spare part for my motorcycle helmet. In the UK I can buy this for 3.50 GBP, but the cheapest I can find it in Spain is 18€, with some stockists in Madrid charging 25€. In absolute terms of course it is not so significant as luckily I do not have to worry about spending 12 or 13€ more than in the UK for it. But in percentage terms that is around 260% more expensive!!
> 
> Similarly with tyres, I have often found myself buying from UK retailers and paying extra postage and still saving over local prices.
> 
> I'm sure there will be many other "niche" market examples, because these areas seem to be where Spain over-charges the consumer.


Good to know. I'll buy some extra tyres before leaving the UK in that case! Metzler Tourance motorcycle tyres usually cost me about £160 a set here in the UK. Not cheap, but I dread to think what they are in Spain in that case.

I've started a spreadsheet to try to work out what it would costs us to move to Spain and set up all the basics. I'm already at about £14 000 and climbing! Although admittedly, some of that includes additional things like washing machine, solar batteries, solar water heater, paying a firm to get our stuff out there (about £4000) etc.

Then another spreadsheet estimating monthly costs based on - as far as is practical - our average costs in the UK for food, fuel, etc. This will help me work out the minimum we need in monthly income. We're on-grid in the UK, so off-grid will be different - solar hot water, LPG gas powered heating, cooking and back up generator. Then I'm trying to factor in car and motorcycle costs: running and maintenance. Flights maybe twice a year, clothing, food, health insurance, phone and internet etc. It's all adding up rather quickly.


----------



## Alcalaina

Isobella said:


> Wages are lower, that's all right then


The average wage in the EU ranges from about €8,500 in Poland and Hungary to over €35,000 in Scandinavia. Spain comes in the middle, at around €22,000. I think it's about £27,000 in the UK. So yes, it's all right as long as costs don't rise beyond reach - the big problems occur when people don't earn enough to feed and house themselves.


----------



## Overandout

Frank B said:


> Good to know. I'll buy some extra tyres before leaving the UK in that case! Metzler Tourance motorcycle tyres usually cost me about £160 a set here in the UK. Not cheap, but I dread to think what they are in Spain in that case.


Actually, I was referring to car tyres in my post (as the car has too many wheels, the extra cost is doubled!).

My bike tyres I buy in Spain because the cost of shipping from UK outweighs the saving (at least that was my experience before, I haven't actually bought any bike tyres since I got back to Spain, but I'm going to have to before it starts raining!)


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## snikpoh

Alcalaina said:


> The average wage in the EU ranges from about €8,500 in Poland and Hungary to over €35,000 in Scandinavia. Spain comes in the middle, at around €22,000. I think it's about £27,000 in the UK. So yes, it's all right as long as costs don't rise beyond reach - the big problems occur when people don't earn enough to feed and house themselves.


Take a look here - Spain is not much below UK

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage


----------



## Lynn R

Chica22 said:


> We have two properties, now both completely electric. This year we have changed the aircon systems in two bedrooms, living room ect., in our main home (the other system was 11 years old), the difference is incredible, quieter machines that seem to cool the rooms quicker. This year it seems to have been far hotter for longer (or maybe that again is an age thing!!!). We have had two bedroom aircon units running all night at 25c, and the living room air con on for at least 8 hours, our electric bill was only 20 euros more per month than normal!!!! Our electric bill is an average of 100 euros per month, which I dont find too excessive based on the fact we never skimp with electric and dont have any other utilities bills (except water and logs in winter)


That's good to know, thank you. Our electricity bills in the old house with gas for cooking and heating used to be around €45 per month and I was thinking they were likely to be around €100 in the new place, so it's good to see that confirmed.

We could have a log fire as we have an open fireplace in the living room of the ático but I'm not sure we'll ever use it. Perhaps we'll have to give it a go as it would be nice to have a fire, but it means lugging firewood up from the storeroom, cleaning out the fireplace, etc. Anyway it will be nice to have a mantelpiece again, I have really missed that for some reason!


----------



## Rabbitcat

I have the ducted air con system which whilst quite expensive to buy is infinitely cheaper to run than individual units in each room Furthermore it's completely silent as the motor is in a ceiling space above a bathroom not in any of the rooms receiving the heat/cold


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## Chica22

Lynn R said:


> That's good to know, thank you. Our electricity bills in the old house with gas for cooking and heating used to be around €45 per month and I was thinking they were likely to be around €100 in the new place, so it's good to see that confirmed.
> 
> We could have a log fire as we have an open fireplace in the living room of the ático but I'm not sure we'll ever use it. Perhaps we'll have to give it a go as it would be nice to have a fire, but it means lugging firewood up from the storeroom, cleaning out the fireplace, etc. Anyway it will be nice to have a mantelpiece again, I have really missed that for some reason!


I am sure Lynn your bills should be lower, our electric includes a swimming pool which I think are fairly expensive to run especially during the summer. 

We managed for over 7 years without a log burner, now I wouldnt be without it, even though we probably only use it a maximum 3 months of the year. The feeling of natural heat is well worth it. I added the cleaning of the fireplace on to OHs extensive list.:smile:


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## Isobella

For the OP the best thing is to look at online grocery sites in both UK and Spain and price the items you buy on an average week.

If you have a decent income, rent out a UK house, have investments you may need to do an income tax comparison too.


----------



## Lynn R

Chica22 said:


> I am sure Lynn your bills should be lower, our electric includes a swimming pool which I think are fairly expensive to run especially during the summer.


I'm pleased to report that it looks as though you are right - our first electricity bill, for the month ended 1st November, is the grand total of €46.05, and that's with the potencia increased to 5.75kw. I am astonished, in a good way! We didn't have to use our inverter for any heating during that period, and only used the dishwasher 3 times, but it's still a lot less than I was expecting especially as we cook two separate evening meals every day.


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## Lynn R

Our electricity bill for the first month in which we've been using the aircon for heating in the evenings has now been issued (our supplier, Fenosa, bills monthly) and it's €59.75- I'm really surprised by this as our winter bills at the old house, where we used gas for cooking and almost all our heating, were just over €50 per month and that was with just 3.45kw potencia rather than the 5.75kw we have now. We're getting a 10% discount on the potencia charge due to a promoción, but that only makes a difference of about €2 per month.

As we won't now be spending around €150 per year on gas the bills seem as if they won't be any more overall, far better than I had anticipated. The water bills are working out slightly less than before too (by probably around €50 a year), probably due to a combination of not needing to do so much cleaning and using the dishwasher a couple of times a week instead of washing up every day.


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## Alcalaina

One of the things that help keep our living costs down is the ready availability of good, reliable local tradesmen. 

Our friendly neighbourhood plumber just came and replaced a broken kitchen tap for us, 15 minutes after I messaged him - charged us €5. I tried to give him more but he flatly refused, so I gave him a big box of Cadburys Roses for his wife and kids.


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## tarot650

Alcalaina said:


> One of the things that help keep our living costs down is the ready availability of good, reliable local tradesmen.
> 
> Our friendly neighbourhood plumber just came and replaced a broken kitchen tap for us, 15 minutes after I messaged him - charged us €5. I tried to give him more but he flatly refused, so I gave him a big box of Cadburys Roses for his wife and kids.


Oh,that's nice.I certainly found with the Spanish people what goes around comes around.Have lost count of the help I have given with PCs with our Spanish friends putting an English operating system on for their children but have to say feel more at home where we are now than we ever did on the coast but each to their own.


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## Megsmum

We too have similar stories

Living 8Km from village, one morning car would not start, phones a friend, who phoned the mechanic, who drove down, gave us a battery charge thingy, told us to keep it and bring it back in a few days, to make sure no issue with car. Price big fat zero, but a crate of beer given


Chap came to check a slight leak in roof....... spent an hour here adjusting roof tiles. Price big fat zero. Beer and drinks purchased in bar following week.

Sometimes we are having coffe i the village. We go to pay and Juan tells us someone’s already paid for it. 

Husband helps locals with various harvests, they help us with situations that’s arise.


Love it here


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## Alcalaina

Megsmum said:


> We too have similar stories
> 
> Living 8Km from village, one morning car would not start, phones a friend, who phoned the mechanic, who drove down, gave us a battery charge thingy, told us to keep it and bring it back in a few days, to make sure no issue with car. Price big fat zero, but a crate of beer given
> 
> 
> Chap came to check a slight leak in roof....... spent an hour here adjusting roof tiles. Price big fat zero. Beer and drinks purchased in bar following week.
> 
> Sometimes we are having coffe i the village. We go to pay and Juan tells us someone’s already paid for it.
> 
> Husband helps locals with various harvests, they help us with situations that’s arise.
> 
> 
> Love it here


Yes, it sounds corny but in these small communities old-fashioned values like goodwill and neighbourliness are as important, if not more so, than making as much profit as you can. They even have a word for it - _compadreo_.

And when you rely on word of mouth to build up your business, rather than advertising, you make sure you do a good job. If you rip someone off, word will soon get round.


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## Lynn R

Alcalaina said:


> Yes, it sounds corny but in these small communities old-fashioned values like goodwill and neighbourliness are as important, if not more so, than making as much profit as you can. They even have a word for it - _compadreo_.
> 
> And when you rely on word of mouth to build up your business, rather than advertising, you make sure you do a good job. If you rip someone off, word will soon get round.


Even in large towns, small acts of kindness and not charging or charging very little for small services are quite common.

When we first moved into our new apartment we were trying to obtain a key to the communal roof terrace. An elderly lady who lives on the ground floor said she would have one cut for us, and duly put one in our postbox. I knocked on her door to say thank you and asked how much I owed her, but she waved away any suggestion of being reimbursed for it - and she didn't know me at all.


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## Anschauer

Excellent idea and thanks! Hope more people can add to the list. I am finishing my 45 year career here in the Netherlands and have to make a choice between Spain, Panama and a return to the USA so I am very happy to have joined and read the comments here.


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## mrypg9

' Communities' exist everywhere, in cities, towns and villages. Some villages can be very cliquey, not very welcoming to ' outsiders'. I grew up in a small, very inward- looking rural community. Leaving for uni aged eighteen was like the Great Escape. For the first time in my life I didn't have the local gestapo equivalent spying on me and reporting to my Mum.

When I moved to London many years ago there were many local neighbourhoods with strong established communities linked by family and firm friendship bonds. That's probably not so common now, though, as people have moved on for work or housing needs and also, although it's not often admitted, because of immigration.
It usually takes time for newcomers to fit in to an established community and in some parts of the UK communities keep very much apart.


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## Pesky Wesky

mrypg9 said:


> ' Communities' exist everywhere, in cities, towns and villages. Some villages can be very cliquey, not very welcoming to ' outsiders'. I grew up in a small, very inward- looking rural community. Leaving for uni aged eighteen was like the Great Escape. For the first time in my life I didn't have the local gestapo equivalent spying on me and reporting to my Mum.
> 
> When I moved to London many years ago there were many local neighbourhoods with strong established communities linked by family and firm friendship bonds. That's probably not so common now, though, as people have moved on for work or housing needs and also, although it's not often admitted, because of immigration.
> It usually takes time for newcomers to fit in to an established community and in some parts of the UK communities keep very much apart.


I have mentioned before people that I know living in Madrid in the area of Plaza Dos de Mayo, or Bilbao (area of Madrid) and others and the feeling really is of neighbours and neighbourliness. They are always greeting people and talking about going to the gym, bar, neighbourhood meetings etc...
In Bilbao the same in some areas. Cities and towns are not necessarily faceless grim places.


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## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> . Cities and towns are not necessarily faceless grim places.


Don't think anyone was suggesting they are. A city is just a collection of "villages" after all.

But we can only describe our personal experiences. Anyone know of a plumber in the UK who will fit a new tap for £5?


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## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> Don't think anyone was suggesting they are. A city is just a collection of "villages" after all.
> 
> But we can only describe our personal experiences. Anyone know of a plumber in the UK who will fit a new tap for £5?


Thankfully no. Plumbers have to live like everyone else...They should be paid the rate for the job. I would be ashamed to give a British plumber £5 just as I would be ashamed here in Spain to pay my gardener 5 euros an hour. As the Scriptures say, 'The labourer is worthy of his hire'.

But..
one freezing snowy Christmas back in the UK our pipes froze and our neighbour responded to our pleas for help,came and fixed the problem. 
The cost: a six pack of beer we had to insist he accepted.


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## Alcalaina

mrypg9 said:


> Thankfully no. Plumbers have to live like everyone else...They should be paid the rate for the job. I would be ashamed to give a British plumber £5 just as I would be ashamed here in Spain to pay my gardener 5 euros an hour. As the Scriptures say, 'The labourer is worthy of his hire'.


I totally agree (my dad was a plumber), and I wanted to give him more but he wouldn't take it. His "going rate" is €20 an hour and it took him 15 minutes. Can't argue with that really. 

But since this is a thread about the cost of living in Spain, I thought it was significant that they don't charge the usual minimum fee just for coming out (at least not in Alcalá, obviously I don't know about other places). My stepfather in the UK called a plumber to mend a dripping bathroom tap recently and he wanted £80 just to look at it - then said it couldn't be repaired!


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## Lynn R

Alcalaina said:


> I totally agree (my dad was a plumber), and I wanted to give him more but he wouldn't take it. His "going rate" is €20 an hour and it took him 15 minutes. Can't argue with that really.
> 
> But since this is a thread about the cost of living in Spain, I thought it was significant that they don't charge the usual minimum fee just for coming out (at least not in Alcalá, obviously I don't know about other places). My stepfather in the UK called a plumber to mend a dripping bathroom tap recently and he wanted £80 just to look at it - then said it couldn't be repaired!


I agree about the lack of emergency call out fees here in Spain. We called out an electrician on a Sunday evening once, and he turned up within an hour and charged us €15 to fix the problem.

I am lucky though because my husband can fix most things around the house, and I reckon that has saved us quite a lot over the years.


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## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Don't think anyone was suggesting they are. A city is just a collection of "villages" after all.
> 
> But we can only describe our personal experiences. Anyone know of a plumber in the UK who will fit a new tap for £5?


I wasn't suggesting that anyone was saying anything. I was only giving examples of city life as people were giving examples of village life. Living in a city can be an isolating, loney affair and village life can be suffocating and boring and it's good to be aware of all kinds of pros and cons - and I think we've covered quite a few of them now!


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## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> I totally agree (my dad was a plumber), and I wanted to give him more but he wouldn't take it. His "going rate" is €20 an hour and it took him 15 minutes. Can't argue with that really.
> 
> But since this is a thread about the cost of living in Spain, I thought it was significant that they don't charge the usual minimum fee just for coming out (at least not in Alcalá, obviously I don't know about other places). My stepfather in the UK called a plumber to mend a dripping bathroom tap recently and he wanted £80 just to look at it - then said it couldn't be repaired!


I think it's another "it depends" scenario. I've paid call out fees for washing machine and dishwasher repairs, but then it's probably because I have preferred to pay a recognised repair shop. When I did call someone on a more casual basis ie someone who was a plumber, but was fitting me in as a friend of a friend kind of thing or another "conocido" who came to look at the washing machine after his day job finished, there was no call out charge.


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## Overandout

Its not all good news for the cost of living.

After we had some work done on our first apartment, we found that the central heating boiler (which had been moved) did not work.

The first guy that came to look said that the boiler was not responding to the thermostat signals, so it was the electronic part of the boiler. 500€.

I was not convinced, so we got a second opinion, this guy said it was the thermostat itself which was not sending a signal to the boiler and he could get an identical digital one to ours for 200€ plus fitting. (I could find the exact same item for sale for 80€).

Luckily, while searching the internet for the thermostat price, I found the wiring instructions, so I set about tracing the cables and checked ours.

When they moved the boiler and extended the cables, they had reconnected it incorrectly. I rewired it and it worked perfectly.

So beware. I could have spent 500€+ and it would not have fixed my problem (which I eventually fixed for no cost).


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## f13dfx

Would someone be willing to get prices for a grocery list from Alcampo, Supersol, Carrefour, etc. just to update pricing during the pandemic?


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## xabiaxica

f13dfx said:


> Would someone be willing to get prices for a grocery list from Alcampo, Supersol, Carrefour, etc. just to update pricing during the pandemic?


You'll find that most stores have online ordering, so you can get the prices that way.


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