# Doing preliminary research



## freeda (Dec 20, 2008)

Hello! Here's our story...

Him: 40 years old, retired military, works fulltime
Me: 32 years old, housewife and minister
Kids: currently 21 and 13
Timeline: 5-7 years, after the little one graduates.
Why Mexico?: You know why. 

My plan: Vacation in various Mexican locations and scope out what feels good. We will be debt free in 4 years, done with kids, and putting our house up for sale. Once it sells we will rent. Plan on entering Mexico under a visit visa, then starting paperwork for pensioner program. Renting for an undefined period until/unless we find something we want permanently at an appropriate price. We will also be visiting Michigan and Wisconsin a couple of times a year. Maybe, if I'm lucky, my daughter will want to go to college in Mexico.

Wish list: Within around an hour from a good sized city where there is an orchestra - I love live classical music. University to accomodate possibility of the little one staying with us. Moderate temp, low humidity - I am NOT a beach bunny. Within either a decent drive of TX (but not on the border) or a town with cheap flights for going home to the Midwest. A little "elbow room" is nice, so hopefully a couple acres. Good internet access would be awesome. Really not interested in anyplace too touristy.

Road blocks: Hubby. He is extremely concerned about security and affordability. A little insecure about being a minority. Kind of a tense guy, in general. (Complete opposite of me.) I'm also concerned about us both finding a purpose so we don't get bored and annoy each other to death. I'm also a little worried about getting scammed by these sites making lovely promises - I don't want to get sucked into anything deceitful or illegal.

Good stuff: His pension is from the government and goes up every year, so no concerns about the economy affecting our income source. I'm 100% laid back, which I hear is an advantage.

Random question: So, does Montezuma's Revenge eventually go away or are you all drinking bottled water until the end of time?

And the usual: Please point out anything I'm overlooking in my plan and feel free to toss out suggestions as to what locales I should check out! 

This site has been very helpful so far, thanks so much!!!


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## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

Welcome to the forum. I'm embarking on the same sort of investigative journey, without the requirement of being within a reasonable drive of Texas. 

While it's great to vacation and find places you like, I'm learning that doing it too far in advance only helps a little. Things can change rapidly, small cities grow, amenities that were rare become common, and your preferences can change. Costs can vary dramaticallly because they are affected by both inflation and the exchange rate.

While you will be more secure with a government pension, the inflation rate that applies is that in the US, not in Mexico. So if inflation in the US is half a percent, and inflation in Mexico is five percent, you really aren't protected. 

Also, the peso is quite low at the moment, at around thirteen to the dollar. Should it return to its previous pattern of hovering around ten to the dollar, costs will go up by 30 percent. And in fact it could be worse, since a lot of prices will be adjusted up to reflect the loss in value of the peso, and if the peso recovers, the prices probably won't come down.

So, when you are looking around, it's important to find a place where you can live well at a cost that is considerably below your actual income level.

Renting is a really good idea, rather than buying. You should only buy after you have lived in a town for a year or more.


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## freeda (Dec 20, 2008)

synthia said:


> While it's great to vacation and find places you like, I'm learning that doing it too far in advance only helps a little. Things can change rapidly, small cities grow, amenities that were rare become common, and your preferences can change. Costs can vary dramaticallly because they are affected by both inflation and the exchange rate.
> 
> While you will be more secure with a government pension, the inflation rate that applies is that in the US, not in Mexico. So if inflation in the US is half a percent, and inflation in Mexico is five percent, you really aren't protected.



I think the vacations are really more to get hubby adjusted to the idea that people can and do function safely there every day. He's got the stereotypical mindset that we'll be kidnapped or something. It's so dorky.

What I meant about the pension is that it won't lose value by U.S. standards like many people's retirement plans did when their stocks tanked this past year or so. I'm still trying to get a fundamental knowledge of how the currency exchange and inflations work.... math isn't my strong suit!


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Welcome. You seem to be making all the right preparations and are asking the right questions. With the qualifications that you have specified, you have described the Lake Chapala area: Half an hour to the Guadalajara airport and an hour into the city with fantastic cultural sites and activities, including philharmonic and opera, etc., etc. There are thousands of American, Canadian and European retirees here and some of them retired early. Social activities for expats abound, as do charitable opportunities for one to become involved with in the community. A couple of acres would be rare because of the different living style in Mexico, but one can have space and privacy, even in a city. For example, we have about 1200 square meters behind walls in the center of Chapala. That includes a lot of garden space, fruit trees, room for three dogs to run and three garages. Another advantage is that we can walk to everything in town, including parks and the lake shore malecon, etc. If you use Google, you can investigate Chapala, Ajijic and Jocotopec; the three most likely areas in which to begin your exploration. Hotels and B&Bs are available for your vacation visits. We are at 5200 feet above sea level and enjoy what is arguably the world's best climate. The Pacific beaches are as close as half a day's drive.


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## Rodrigo84 (Mar 5, 2008)

I wouldn't consider anything further south than Monterrey as the cutoff line if you want something within driving distance of the border. Guadalajara area is still a bit of a trek.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Chapala to the border is 720 miles on good roads. It can be done in one day but two is more enjoyable.


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## freeda (Dec 20, 2008)

RVGRINGO said:


> Chapala to the border is 720 miles on good roads. It can be done in one day but two is more enjoyable.


I've been seeing a lot of good things about Chapala. It sounds heavenly. 720 miles isn't bad - that's about as far as we drive now to go "home" for the holidays. I just don't want to *have* to fly. It's expensive and makes me nervous. I do have some family in NE TX as well, so it would be pretty easy to leapfrog home at relatives homes rather than staying in hotels. 

I definitely want a dog - with the street dog situation there I wasn't sure how that goes. If I brought a purebred would I have to be concerned about animal theft? Our huskies should be in heaven by the time we move, but I was thinking of a German Shepherd. However, if a mutt or local dog would be better, I'll just wait till we get there.

The space/no space issue is confusing. When hubby and I talk about buying our next house here, he's insistent about acres and acres for privacy. But when I talk to him about Mexico (which he's still not on board with yet) he says that he wants more of a lifestyle where it's chatty with the neighbors, not a huge space. Which is heavenly for him to say that he wants a social lifestyle instead of being a hermit, which has always pretty much been his life plan.

He did say last night he'd like to be able to walk to conveniences like someplace to eat, a small grocery store, etc. So that puts us in a far more residential area than I was originally considering. (I was looking at farms! )

Hubby said something last night about working for another 15-20 years before being able to have this lifestyle we want. I asked him if he wants to work 20 years, or if he just wants to be really careful for the next 5 years or so and MOVE TO MEXICO. Same lifestyle -- why wait an extra 15 years for it? I really hope he's considering it fully. The majority of his employees are native to Mexico so he has some resources for first hand accounts..... I believe they're here for pay reasons, not lifestyle!

I wonder if I could scratch together some vacation plans for Chapala by spring break?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I think you would have to visit to appreciate the different architectural approach in Mexico. It derives from Spain and Morroco with the opposite approach to the USA with its house sitting in the center of a lot. Here, your yard is inside your home or, at least, within the private walls of your property. There is no 'curb appeal' and visitors wander about wondering, "What's behind the walls."
Street dogs are friendly to people and you must sometimes step over one basking in the sun. On the other hand, they are territorial regarding other dogs. Yours will live within your walls unless with you on a leash. Even farmers don't live on their farms; they commute and hire a guard to look out for the cattle or crops. The farmer lives in town, like 95% of everyone else. Although homes are reasonable and available in many price ranges, land is very expensive and getting scarce. All of our dogs are rescue dogs from the shelter, etc. One is a Jack Russel, another is a tiny mutt and the third, and most recent, appears to be mostly white shepherd mixed with something that had a curly tail.


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## freeda (Dec 20, 2008)

LOL, he just called me from work with some Mexican girls to "get the dirt" on the areas I'm looking at - that's a great sign!!

The courtyard concept sounds cool to me, actually. But I am used to being set back from street and neighbors - we live in the burbs here and have an acre.

Question: If I'm planning a vacation, is 350/week too much or too little to pay for a place to stay? We qualify for the armed forces vacation club, and that's their rate... they have places available in Nuevo Vallarta, Puerto Vallarta, Acapulco, Ixtapa.. nothing right by Chapala. But if it's a bargain stay, I'm not opposed to driving.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

The places that you mention are all beach resorts on the coast; a nice place to visit in the winter but very uncomfortable heat and humidity in the summer. Here at Lake Chapala, you will find B&B accomodations or hotel rooms from $35 to $75 per night; most with breakfast included.


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## freeda (Dec 20, 2008)

Awesome, thanks very much.  Is it possible/easy/cheap to fly direct, or do you fly into Guadalajara and drive/bus?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

You fly into the Guadalajara International Airport (GDL) and taxi to Chapala or Ajijic for about 280 pesos.


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## freeda (Dec 20, 2008)

I'm excited! I'll have to check out the passport situation - I think his is still good. I'm debating the pass card vs. a proper passport for myself and my daughter.

What's the best way to find a B&B to stay at? (Mid-range quality.) Internet searches are frustrating!!! I keep getting directed to completely different areas than what I'm looking for.


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## freeda (Dec 20, 2008)

Thanks for those who pm'd me with specific recommendations! 

Hubby checked with his employees, and showed them a list of the cities I gave him - turns out one of them has a husband from Joco! So the fact that he's getting favorable info from people he knows well bodes well.


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## michou_envoyage (Dec 28, 2008)

Hi,
I don't live in Mexico anymore but I know it very well. When you said music, apart from Mexico city which I would really not recomend if your husband is a kind of stressed guy, I though about Jalapa in Veracruz... very nice cultural city in the mountains with a great Music faculty at the University... but very humid... Then I though about the city of Guanajato in the same state name. Also very cultural and interresting city. They probably have a music faculty at the University and they have the Cervantino festival, one of the nicest cultural event in all Mexico. And maybe your girl whould like to attend University there! Very nice colonial town world's heritage by Unesco. Pretty dry but not too hot. Kind of mid desertic climat in the mountains. Pretty close to San Miguel de Allende a very popular US expat retirement place but a lot less expensive and more real. I'm sure you could find something to buy in the nearby countryside not too expensive and decent. There must be reasonable flights going there or nearby too. About the water... you'll have to drink the bottles all your life! but even mexican do it so it is very easy to adapt to.. you buy them by the 20 litres for less then 2 dollars. And you will get use to clean your veggies and cook everything well in no time. No biggee! As an extra precaution, it is a good idea to take a "deparasitante" every 3 months anyway. It's only 1 pill you take to kill anything you might have caught without really noticing... but don't worry about it! You adapt very fast and will always get stronger!
ABOUT CRIMES IN MEXICO: I lived in Mexico for nearly 6 years all over the place and never had problems except a one time when I got my credit card picked pocket. And I am a red head white single girl who even visited the Zapatistas base in Chiapas... I heard worst stories in the States! But I have to admit there is a special situation right now all over the country with the narco-trafficante... I hope it will end soon. Probably will be very different in 7 years... but again... If you don't buy drugs and don't go out late in night clubs... you should not have to worry too much about it! Common sense will avoid you much trouble and Guanajato seems pretty quiet to me when I passed through there. 
It is my best recomendation from what you are looking at.
Hope this help!
Michelle


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## freeda (Dec 20, 2008)

Thank you Michelle! We're not "party people" so I'm sure we'll avoid most trouble! I appreciate the breakdown of different locations!


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## Bob Cox (Jan 2, 2009)

Freeda.. there's many places that fit your profile for a place to live, depending on how you like your climate... Puebla .Puebla has a Music Conservatory & so does Jalapa, Veracruz. Puebla has more altitude, I'm an hour away in Tlaxcala, less traffic. Roadblocks have become a way of life in some places, if your papers are in order I wouldnt worry about it though. 
Get ready to drink bottled water forever...Why? Even though I've personally checked the chlorine % in our water & it seems OK. I just dont trust the delivery system, earthquakes, cracks in lines, etc. however you can get a 5 gallon bottle of purified water in most places for $1 dollar to $1.50, As for being a minority I dont see discrimination based on race here, I do see discrimination based on Social Status, but thats everywhere. beware of places loaded with Americans...the prices will definitely be higher...supply & demand. The University of the Americas in Puebla has many American Students , check their website. If your careful you may never get Montezumas revenge...note: just a change in the flora of your stomach can bring it on...try eating yogurt the first days in Mexico to help combat it. Yes it will go away, use common sense when eating.



freeda said:


> Hello! Here's our story...
> 
> Him: 40 years old, retired military, works fulltime
> Me: 32 years old, housewife and minister
> ...


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## quinta (Mar 8, 2009)

We lived in Puerto Vallarta for over 10 years and any land available for mere mortals was in the next state over, Nayarit, there were lots of expats there too. But land prices are going up every day so this might affect your budget. We now live in Puebla, after living in Merida for 3 years (too hot for me but I've got friends selling 2-20 acre lots in Yucatan state, rural setting and others in Campeche) and land close to a city is expensive and no longer easily available (Merida is very cultural with opera, ballet, symphony, ruins, etc. and organized expats too). Puebla is much cooler and Bob is right, if you want land you will need to go rural or try Tlaxcala (beautiful) and Puebla has it all! Mexico City is 2 hrs away.


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## BryansRose (May 25, 2009)

I can recommend San Luis Potosi to you. It's in the mountains, and a bit cooler than the coasts or farther south. The border is definitely doable in one day. 

There is a university and lots of cultural events -- art exhibits, dance, music, a symphony orchestra. The city is fairly quiet, and from what I have been able to learn and experience, very safe. Most of the housing here is like RVGringo described, with the courtyard. I have a walled-in patio and garden in the back as well. I love it, since it's private and makes me feel very safe. The only thing I don't like about it is that I can't see the surrounding mountains from my house. Also, it's not so easy to see and meet your neighbors. 

I did the early retirement thing. If you are willing to put aside some of the US lifestyle, and adapt to the culture here, you can live fairkly cheaply. I'm living on about 30% of what I needed in the US. Buying local produce, going to the markets, NOT going to Costco or expecting lots of US brands, all helps. 

Feel free to ask here, or send me a private message if you have any questions.


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