# In two minds.



## dutch1954 (Sep 16, 2012)

Cash-strapped Cyprus plots Russian exit from austerity - Telegraph Just read this and it does'nt paint a great picture of what the future could hold for Cyprus/Paphos...i would like to know what the expat brit has to say, and is it like the Telegraph portrays.


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2012)

I am not Brit but I can have an opinion anyway. 

This seems to be written by someone that have something against Russians in particulare, even if the Chinese also get some ****. Cyprus must be able to drag in money to the country from the only real resource they have, the climate. The europeans in general and Brits in particular dont seem to have any, but Russians sure do. 

The Russians want much more then a backdoor to EU, they want the oil and gas.

Cyprus has changed, it is no longer a British colony, it is an independent country that must make their own choises to sort out the mess they are in. If this means they will turn to Russia, China or some other country with a lot of money, everyone has to respect it.

For me its not a treat, its a possibility

Anders


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## kim1967 (Feb 26, 2012)

Vegaanders said:


> I am not Brit but I can have an opinion anyway.
> 
> This seems to be written by someone that have something against Russians in particulare, even if the Chinese also get some ****. Cyprus must be able to drag in money to the country from the only real resource they have, the climate. The europeans in general and Brits in particular dont seem to have any, but Russians sure do.
> 
> ...


Hi
I have heard that the Troikas have told cyprus if they borrow money from russia, none eu, then they will be removed from the eu as its against rules or something.
Dont quote me exact but its something like that. Cannot remember the rest so maybe someone else may know and also comment?


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

The article by Jeff Randall has been based on a number of facts which he has embellished with a rather negative slant. Without doubt Cyprus has moved from being a cash rich country to a highly indebted one at the hands of Christofias and his cronies whose failure to monitor the banks together with the absurd Greece love affair meant that ridiculous investments were made in Greek banks which have now been severely devalued. Christofias is also a staunch defender of the bloated, lazy and overpaid public sector employees that suck so much of the government's income. But he goes in February which could provide an opportunity for change for the better.

The billboards Randall mentions which offer reduced prices are correct for 2 reasons. Firstly house prices became excessively high due to the British, the majority buyers, accepting them when exchange rates were far more favourable than today. They allowed and even encouraged prices to rise therefore to see a correction advertised may be bringing the prices to a more sensible and correct level. The other reason relates to supply and demand. The Cypriots are often criticised (by ex-pats) for raising prices when profits fall. Now we have a case where prices are being reduced to try and stimulate demand and guess what, they are criticised in the article.

Quite correctly the Tourist Board courted the Russians to come and spend their money when the British pulled in their belts and ceased to do so and no doubt this has helped although many bemoan the influx of lawlessness that is associated with them. The same process is now occurring with the Chinese.

Randall is quite right when he says that the money Cyprus needs to survive is small change compared to other EU country's shortfalls and the austerity demands of the Troika are being resisted just as in other countries as well. Unfortunately the main thrust of the resistance is from Christofias as the Troika dared to suggest rectifying the dreadful public sector situation. At the end of the day something will be negotiated even if it is a loan on a Russian or Chinese credit card.

Randall continues his rant in a negative vein but doesn't stop to consider how, with the correct management, the recently discovered gas reserves could bring Cyprus to riches again and with benefit to the entire EU. Greece and Spain can't boast this.

Randall also touches on the terrible situation with the occupation of the North but where can he justify the comment "Turkey is an ever menacing presence, with its unrecognized regime in the north of the island. Hostility looms large." I do not recognise any menacing or hostility and this sort of comment is hardly likely to help the meetings between the 2 countries to try and resolve the complex and difficult issues.

There is no doubt that there are substantial problems to deal with here as in many other EU countries but to pen an article so negative serves no purpose other than to earn money for the writer.

Pete


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

kim1967 said:


> Hi
> I have heard that the Troikas have told cyprus if they borrow money from russia, none eu, then they will be removed from the eu as its against rules or something.
> Dont quote me exact but its something like that. Cannot remember the rest so maybe someone else may know and also comment?


I am quite sure you have been wrongly informed. Cyprus has already had one loan from Russia last year and countries simply can't be removed from the EU. The amount of inter country lending in the EU is absolutely mind-boggling and involves ALL countries. The BBC web site has a clever graphic which helps explain this.

The only thing I can think may be related to this may the the possibility that if Cyprus pursues Russian loans then loans from the Troika will not be forthcoming.

Pete


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2012)

PeteandSylv said:


> I am quite sure you have been wrongly informed. Cyprus has already had one loan from Russia last year and countries simply can't be removed from the EU. The amount of inter country lending in the EU is absolutely mind-boggling and involves ALL countries. The BBC web site has a clever graphic which helps explain this.
> 
> The only thing I can think may be related to this may the the possibility that if Cyprus pursues Russian loans then loans from the Troika will not be forthcoming.
> 
> Pete


Ofc if Russia comes up with the needed money in exchange for whatever, there would be no need for EU bailout. The problem with that is that the much needed changes perhaps not occur, which In my opinion would be a disater

Anders


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Vegaanders said:


> Ofc if Russia comes up with the needed money in exchange for whatever, there would be no need for EU bailout. The problem with that is that the much needed changes perhaps not occur, which In my opinion would be a disater
> 
> Anders


I agree with you.

What Cyprus ideally needs is support from the EU with constructive austerity. In addition a new government in February which would have the ambition to drive out the corruption and nepotism that exists, augment the legal system with small claim courts, carry out a complete revamp of the public sector terms of employment and working methods introducing responsible, targetted management and implement a realistic but ambitious plan to deal with the gas reserves.

This may be asking rather a lot from the existing parties.

Pete


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## David_&_Letitia (Jul 8, 2012)

PeteandSylv said:


> Christofias is also a staunch defender of the bloated, lazy and overpaid public sector employees that suck so much of the government's income. But he goes in February which could provide an opportunity for change for the better.


Do expats resident in Cyprus have the right to vote in the Cypriot elections?


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2012)

David_&_Letitia said:


> Do expats resident in Cyprus have the right to vote in the Cypriot elections?


Only local elections. Not parliament or president. Like in all of EU

Anders


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## dutch1954 (Sep 16, 2012)

Thanks for all your replies,.....as the link says.... Then there is Russia, with which Cyprus shares an orthodox church. While Paphos's feline vagrants were being rounded up for extermination, big bears moved in to fill their places on the sunbeds. The newcomers are easy to spot, thanks largely to a sartorial style originated by Englebert Humperdinck's costumier and watches the size of grapefruits.

The number of Russians visiting Cyprus has tripled in three years to more than 400,000 and many do not intend to go back. The official estimate of Russian residents here is about 50,000 but double that seems nearer the mark. Aside from the appeal of an agreeable climate and a low tax rate, the Russians' penchant for cash transactions prompts widespread suspicion that the island is becoming a giant laundromat for red-hot rubles. Cypriot authorities deny this.

The Russians' location of choice is Limassol, a 45-minute drive from Paphos, where there is a Russian-language newspaper, a Russian-language radio station, two Russian-language schools and enough prostitutes from former USSR states to keep the Red Army tied down, as it were, until Christmas......cheap loans can turn out to be expensive if you get my drift...


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2012)

What is it you are after?. You seem to be afraid of the Russians in Cyprus. Why?

By the way you are wrong about charing the church. Cyprus is Greek Orthodox. Russians are Russian Orthodox, and the to are far from the same.

Anders


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## kimonas (Jul 19, 2008)

I think the point being made about the Church was the orthodoxy family connection - orthodoxy was exported to the Rus royal family via marriage through a Greek speaking Byzantine emperor's daughter in the early medieval period. The Church is ressurgent in Russia and Cypriot orthodoxy (the orthodox church here is autocephalous) still has a very strong influence (even over communist presidents)...


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

dutch1954 said:


> Thanks for all your replies,.....as the link says.... Then there is Russia, with which Cyprus shares an orthodox church. While Paphos's feline vagrants were being rounded up for extermination, big bears moved in to fill their places on the sunbeds. The newcomers are easy to spot, thanks largely to a sartorial style originated by Englebert Humperdinck's costumier and watches the size of grapefruits.
> 
> The number of Russians visiting Cyprus has tripled in three years to more than 400,000 and many do not intend to go back. The official estimate of Russian residents here is about 50,000 but double that seems nearer the mark. Aside from the appeal of an agreeable climate and a low tax rate, the Russians' penchant for cash transactions prompts widespread suspicion that the island is becoming a giant laundromat for red-hot rubles. Cypriot authorities deny this.
> 
> The Russians' location of choice is Limassol, a 45-minute drive from Paphos, where there is a Russian-language newspaper, a Russian-language radio station, two Russian-language schools and enough prostitutes from former USSR states to keep the Red Army tied down, as it were, until Christmas......cheap loans can turn out to be expensive if you get my drift...


If double 50,000 is the number of Russians at present i.e. 100,000, that exceeds the number of British ex-pats and would have increased the total population noticeably at the last census (unless they all arrived recently which the article suggests is not the case).

I think the figures suggested by the article are incorrect and are merely part of the negative light Randall wanted to portray for Cyprus.

I'm sure that if Cyprus had not courted the Russian money when the UK money dried up he would have happily criticised the Cypriot Tourist Board for being ineffective.

Quite why he has taken such a negative stance in his article (other than the flow of money into his bank account) I do not know. Does he also write with the same dismay about the population shift in Bradford and the like in the UK?

Pete


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2012)

PeteandSylv said:


> If double 50,000 is the number of Russians at present i.e. 100,000, that exceeds the number of British ex-pats and would have increased the total population noticeably at the last census (unless they all arrived recently which the article suggests is not the case).
> 
> I think the figures suggested by the article are incorrect and are merely part of the negative light Randall wanted to portray for Cyprus.
> 
> ...


And what is the problem with the russian language media? There is also English language media. The official language in Cyprus is Cypriot Greek, not English.

Your comments shows some strange fear for the "Russian Bear" that I have not seen in many years. And a "dont touch our island". I hoped these times were long gone.


Anders


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## kimonas (Jul 19, 2008)

I suspect the Russian interests in Cyprus go beyond sun and low taxes. The Cypriot authority's 'refusal' (under a foreign policy pressure that favours Russian interests) to embargo arms on Russian ships bound for Syria (as it should have done under EU policy as an EU member state) reveal, in my opinion, a wider and more sinister development. Russia wants to hold onto its warm water Naval base in Syria which it will be unable to do if the Shia minority is overwhelmed in the civil war. Let's also not forget that Cyprus' second official language is Turkish and that the occupied territories are controlled by Ankara whose government has been shelling Syria in retaliation of stray Syrian mortar shells that recently killed a Turkish mother and her children. To suggest that those mortars could have been delivered by a Russian ship via Limassol is probably taking it too far, but it does illustrate that the situation here in Cyprus could get rather uncomfortable if the violence of our near neighbours spills over into a wider conflict. We should remember that there have been at least 8 major Russo-Turkish conflicts in the last few hundred years and I hate to say it but it is unfortunately true that we tend not to learn much from history which often repeats itself...


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## PeteandSylv (Sep 24, 2008)

Vegaanders said:


> And what is the problem with the russian language media? There is also English language media. The official language in Cyprus is Cypriot Greek, not English.
> 
> Your comments shows some strange fear for the "Russian Bear" that I have not seen in many years. And a "dont touch our island". I hoped these times were long gone.
> 
> ...


I totally do not understand your comments particularly your reference to my fear for the Russian Bear. A comment I did not make.

My comments were critical of the original article for the reasons I set out.

You may have become confused.

Pete


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2012)

PeteandSylv said:


> I totally do not understand your comments particularly your reference to my fear for the Russian Bear. A comment I did not make.
> 
> My comments were critical of the original article for the reasons I set out.
> 
> ...


Hi Pete!!
That was not meant to you ofc, it was meant to the original author of the tread

Sorry it was my misstake to press the wrong replay button.

Anders


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## dutch1954 (Sep 16, 2012)

Vegaanders said:


> What is it you are after?. You seem to be afraid of the Russians in Cyprus. Why?
> 
> By the way you are wrong about charing the church. Cyprus is Greek Orthodox. Russians are Russian Orthodox, and the to are far from the same.
> 
> Anders


Anders, that was a cut and paste from what jeff randall had wrote in the link if you had cared to read so please do not shoot the messenger..... my only input to that was...cheap loans can turn out to be expensive if you get my drift... and the drift was executed on the button by Kimonas quote
I suspect the Russian interests in Cyprus go beyond sun and low taxes. The Cypriot authority's 'refusal' (under a foreign policy pressure that favours Russian interests) to embargo arms on Russian ships bound for Syria (as it should have done under EU policy as an EU member state) reveal, in my opinion, a wider and more sinister development. Russia wants to hold onto its warm water Naval base in Syria which it will be unable to do if the Shia minority is overwhelmed in the civil war. Let's also not forget that Cyprus' second official language is Turkish and that the occupied territories are controlled by Ankara whose government has been shelling Syria in retaliation of stray Syrian mortar shells that recently killed a Turkish mother and her children. To suggest that those mortars could have been delivered by a Russian ship via Limassol is probably taking it too far, but it does illustrate that the situation here in Cyprus could get rather uncomfortable if the violence of our near neighbours spills over into a wider conflict. We should remember that there have been at least 8 major Russo-Turkish conflicts in the last few hundred years and I hate to say it but it is unfortunately true that we tend not to learn much from history which often repeats itself...if you care to google "RUSSIA AND TURKEY" you will get some interesting reading as for being afraid of the Russian bear coming to Cyprus get real i am British and only afraid of one woman ...when i look at other countries whether it be for vacation or to take up residence i go into great depth researching and getting a feel for the country and the people who live there all ready, and seeing if it deserves any of my money and with what i have read about cyprus lately in my opinion it is going to get worse property wise before it gets any better and if Putin does use Cyprus as one of his bases then where will that leave Cyprus, all I.M.H.O. remember Anders mr Putin is not in the "free lunch" money giving charity brigade..


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2012)

dutch1954 said:


> Anders, that was a cut and paste from what jeff randall had wrote in the link if you had cared to read so please do not shoot the messenger..... my only input to that was...cheap loans can turn out to be expensive if you get my drift... and the drift was executed on the button by Kimonas quote
> I suspect the Russian interests in Cyprus go beyond sun and low taxes. The Cypriot authority's 'refusal' (under a foreign policy pressure that favours Russian interests) to embargo arms on Russian ships bound for Syria (as it should have done under EU policy as an EU member state) reveal, in my opinion, a wider and more sinister development. Russia wants to hold onto its warm water Naval base in Syria which it will be unable to do if the Shia minority is overwhelmed in the civil war. Let's also not forget that Cyprus' second official language is Turkish and that the occupied territories are controlled by Ankara whose government has been shelling Syria in retaliation of stray Syrian mortar shells that recently killed a Turkish mother and her children. To suggest that those mortars could have been delivered by a Russian ship via Limassol is probably taking it too far, but it does illustrate that the situation here in Cyprus could get rather uncomfortable if the violence of our near neighbours spills over into a wider conflict. We should remember that there have been at least 8 major Russo-Turkish conflicts in the last few hundred years and I hate to say it but it is unfortunately true that we tend not to learn much from history which often repeats itself...if you care to google "RUSSIA AND TURKEY" you will get some interesting reading as for being afraid of the Russian bear coming to Cyprus get real i am British and only afraid of one woman ...when i look at other countries whether it be for vacation or to take up residence i go into great depth researching and getting a feel for the country and the people who live there all ready, and seeing if it deserves any of my money and with what i have read about cyprus lately in my opinion it is going to get worse property wise before it gets any better and if Putin does use Cyprus as one of his bases then where will that leave Cyprus, all I.M.H.O. remember Anders mr Putin is not in the "free lunch" money giving charity brigade..


I have no doubts what so ever that Russians want something in return. As any other lender would. I am also quite sure thet the oil and gas prospects is the goal. But I do not agree that there is a military threat out there for Cyprus. It is old cold war ideas that do not longer excist. Russia would not risk anything for a small tiny island that perhaps can get some oil and gas, even if it is still disputed which countries have the rights.

I am also sure that property wise its going to be worse. Prices has for many years been much much to high and have to adjust. Look at Spain. 1,5 million homes are now for sale, mostly sold by the banks, for 50 % of the value of the mortgage taken out on them. Perhaps it will not be so bad in Cyprus but it will take many many years before prices go up again, if they do. The Title Deeds problem does not help.

But that said, if the Russian or Chinese money somehow get blocked, then Cyprus is in BIG trouble

Anders


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

Cyprus has always remaine neutral in any middle eastern troubles and would not allow 
Russia or anyone else to use it as a base for conflict. The only thing Russia wants from Cyprus is a share of the oil and gas.


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## dutch1954 (Sep 16, 2012)

Veronica said:


> Cyprus has always remaine neutral in any middle eastern troubles and would not allow
> Russia or anyone else to use it as a base for conflict. The only thing Russia wants from Cyprus is a share of the oil and gas.


Yes Veronica you could be right here is just a snippet from Asianews I.TIn Cyprus, newspapers are reporting increased Turkish aerial activity around the island, with nighttime research and rescue training operations. At the same time, Israel is monitoring Turkish moves with unmanned drones circling the drilling area.

Both Greece and Russia have backed the Cypriot position on the natural gas issue. Moscow also wants some licences to develop some of the fields and is in favour of a cooperation agreement with Cyprus.

The Russian aircraft carrier ‘Admiral Kuznetsov’ is expected in the eastern Mediterranean region next month, carrying a large number of Russian fighters. A submarine is also on its way for “patrol purposes” as part of exercises with other countries in the area.

The arrival of the Russians coincides with the expected announcement by Noble of its initial drilling results...........behind the sun,sea,sand & ssssss there is an underlyng conflict or a potential for there to be one and the more i research the more i find.


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2012)

dutch1954 said:


> Yes Veronica you could be right here is just a snippet from Asianews I.TIn Cyprus, newspapers are reporting increased Turkish aerial activity around the island, with nighttime research and rescue training operations. At the same time, Israel is monitoring Turkish moves with unmanned drones circling the drilling area.
> 
> Both Greece and Russia have backed the Cypriot position on the natural gas issue. Moscow also wants some licences to develop some of the fields and is in favour of a cooperation agreement with Cyprus.
> 
> ...


Sorry to say it seems to me that you are believing in some kind of conspiracy. 

Anders


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## dutch1954 (Sep 16, 2012)

Vegaanders said:


> Sorry to say it seems to me that you are believing in some kind of conspiracy.
> 
> Anders




Anders, i have just clicked on your name and viewed the links on your home page and came upon "Next stop cyprus" and here is a cut and paste ....Many people all over the world nurish a dream about moving to Cyprus, either to restart their lives of different reasons, retire in the sun after a long working life, or some other reason. To make this possible everyone has to collect a lot of information to be able to make the right decisions.

Information is available everywhere and most people seem to use Internet as their main source of knowledge. And most of the information needed can be found there, either on webpages from government or different companies or organisations, or on forums whose members have already taken this big step and can tell about what kind of problems that arise during the process.

But even if all the information is available, it can be difficult to know where, and formost it is almost impossible to know the quality of the given information. So much of the information on Internet is of very bad quality, some of it even false or pure fraud.
i love it where it says To make this possible everyone has to collect a lot of information to be able to make the right decisions. and yet when one does do research and finds something not in your remit you pour scorn on it ...now anders what is your game ...what axe have you to grind ...what gain have you in looking at cyprus through rose tinted glasses..... i love the end even better where it says ....So much of the information on Internet is of very bad quality, some of it even false or pure fraud..... how true how true.


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2012)

dutch1954 said:


> Anders, i have just clicked on your name and viewed the links on your home page and came upon "Next stop cyprus" and here is a cut and paste ....Many people all over the world nurish a dream about moving to Cyprus, either to restart their lives of different reasons, retire in the sun after a long working life, or some other reason. To make this possible everyone has to collect a lot of information to be able to make the right decisions.
> 
> Information is available everywhere and most people seem to use Internet as their main source of knowledge. And most of the information needed can be found there, either on webpages from government or different companies or organisations, or on forums whose members have already taken this big step and can tell about what kind of problems that arise during the process.
> 
> ...


Yes we collect facts, that can be proven to be right.

We dont collect rumours or conspiracy theories that only will scare people. 

It seem to me that somehow you dont want any other nationality come and live on Cyprus. Well I have to disappoint you, I will come and live there in the beginning of next year and I am not brit, I am swede. And I will bring my wife, neither she is Brit.

If you want to discuss more, just PM me, we can keep this discussion outside the forum

Anders


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## dutch1954 (Sep 16, 2012)

Vegaanders said:


> Yes we collect facts, that can be proven to be right.
> 
> We dont collect rumours or conspiracy theories that only will scare people.
> 
> ...


i do not have anything to hide from would be expats i prefer to keep it open to all then that way future expats can have an axe to grind version and a no axe to grind version...the last thing people want is going to cyprus with rose tinted glasses on and led up the bougainvillea path as in the past, just tell me where i have said i do not want any other nationality to live in cyprus ...and you will not disappoint me by going to live in cyprus with your wife, and i am sure you will make a lot of friend there.. hahahahwhat on earth are you talking about, you have no idea who i am and yet you make words up about what people have not said, is this were you find your facts for your website..laughable.


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## Veronica (Apr 5, 2008)

As this thread seems to be degenerating into nothing more than back biting and arguing i am closing it.

Randall is well known for being an alarmist and although there are some elements of truth in his article as usual it is blown up out of all proportion and certainly does not warrant this forum becoming a battleground.


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