# Zim friend wants to live in the UK, how much dole or pension will he receive?



## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

My friend lives outside Gwero in Zim where he has been an assistant hospital administrator since 1967. He is 65 years old and recently widowed. He has no children. He also has no money since the (white) staff only got paid at odd intervals and nothing since October 2011. His house was burnt down in 2005 and he has been living in the nurses accommodation.

He was born in Londonand has a UK passport, entitling him to live in the UK and his sister (71) lives there, in a retirement home. He wants to go and live in the UK but has never contributed to the DSS in the UK, except for a year in 1977.

He is trying to find out what benefits are available to him when he arrives. So far, enquiries to DSS are met with a standardised reply that since he has not contributed, he is not entitled to a pension. However, some of his colleagues who have family in Pakistan went to live in the UK about 5 years ago and receive all kinds of benefits, their rent paid, free bus pass, etc.

Any info will be gratefully received. I am paying his airfare from Cape Town to London.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

He won't be entitled to a Basic State Pension because he hasn't paid National Insurance (the BSP requires many years of contribution and not everyone actually living in the UK right now are entitled either).

There is also the Guaranteed Income Scheme which aims to top up income to the minimum threshold for anyone of pensionable age living in the UK who doesn't receive a sufficient pension or other source of income - for a single person it's around £142 a week. He might be entitled to that. Take a look at this link: Pension Credit - introduction : Directgov - Pensions and retirement planning. You'll see there is a Pensions Helpline (they state to be ready with your National Insurance Number but just explain the situation and that he doesn't have one. Hopefully they can give you the advice your friend needs.


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## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

I am not sure if the info in this article would help, it is from 2009, but some of the people at the time seem to be in a similar situation to your friend. Maybe the British Embassy could help him.
Zimbabwe's destitute Britons to be repatriated - Telegraph


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

There is no Social Security Agreement between UK and Zimbabwe, so the only pension he will be entitled to is whatever he has contributed to a Zimbabwean system. 
He should be entitled to non-contributory benefits such as income support, housing benefit and council tax benefit. He has to apply when he gets to UK, and what he will get depends on his personal circumstances, but if he is close to destitute, he should get full amount.


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

Joppa said:


> There is no Social Security Agreement between UK and Zimbabwe, so the only pension he will be entitled to is whatever he has contributed to a Zimbabwean system.
> He should be entitled to non-contributory benefits such as income support, housing benefit and council tax benefit. He has to apply when he gets to UK, and what he will get depends on his personal circumstances, but if he is close to destitute, he should get full amount.



He applied at the British High Commission in Harare but as soon as they found out he has a sister living in the UK, seemed to lose interest (according to him). None of the staff at the hospital have ever received a cent from the Zim govt, their pensions dept has no money at all. During his working life he contributed between 3% and 5% of his salary to a pension scheme. In 2007 he received 5 months pay, in 2008, 6 months, in 2009 1 month, in 2010 3 months and in 2011, 2 months and nothing since. Upon enquiring with the state treasury in Harare, you are told that the money has been sent but it got stolen so there is nothing you can do.

I am quite prepared to loan (really, give) him £500 to start him off in the UK but don't want to find he is living on the streets. One of the nurses, Fazlin Naidoor is of Pakistani origin and her family actually arranged her to come to the UK. She gets all kinds of benefits including her rent paid and an allowance of about £90 a week I think.


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

fergie said:


> I am not sure if the info in this article would help, it is from 2009, but some of the people at the time seem to be in a similar situation to your friend. Maybe the British Embassy could help him.
> Zimbabwe's destitute Britons to be repatriated - Telegraph



Thanks. I actually have that article. However, the British HC in Harare is selective who they assist. They viewed him as a civil servant since he worked a a govt hospital and told him that different rules apply.


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

chrisc2615 said:


> Thanks. I actually have that article. However, the British HC in Harare is selective who they assist. They viewed him as a civil servant since he worked a a govt hospital and told him that different rules apply.


At the very least it's as Joppa says, which should be ok to survive on. 
Can the sister not help ? with the transition between landing and receiving the benefits mentioned, which seeing as he's British would take about 4 weeks to start paying into his bank account. 
If the embassy in Harare say different rules apply, can you find out exactly why an ex-civil servant is treated differently?
There seems to be more to this than meets the eye. 
The brits respond well, to be fair, to cold hard facts, so present your case factually and without emotional distraction, no offence intended.


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

You see I am getting this info second-hand. The sister as far as I know is a dead loss. She might be his sister but could be a stranger for all the interest she shows.

Apparently the embassy (he says it is the high commission) have a place on the form where you tick if you had ever worked for a Zim Govt dept and since hospitals in Zim are run by the state (as opposed to the province as in SA) he ticked this box. The lady looked at this and told him "this changes things" and said they would get back to him. They never did.

I suggested to him (when offering him £500 to get him started) that he should show me all the documents he has and then see to the applications, etc when in the UK. My experience via my late father in law was that the DOSS in England are quite jacked up, unlike here where they are 99% asleep.


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## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

chrisc2615 said:


> You see I am getting this info second-hand. The sister as far as I know is a dead loss. She might be his sister but could be a stranger for all the interest she shows.
> 
> Apparently the embassy (he says it is the high commission) have a place on the form where you tick if you had ever worked for a Zim Govt dept and since hospitals in Zim are run by the state (as opposed to the province as in SA) he ticked this box. The lady looked at this and told him "this changes things" and said they would get back to him. They never did.
> 
> I suggested to him (when offering him £500 to get him started) that he should show me all the documents he has and then see to the applications, etc when in the UK. My experience via my late father in law was that the DOSS in England are quite jacked up, unlike here where they are 99% asleep.


If his sister is in a retirement home, she may well have had all her 'funds' diminishing to pay towards the cost of being there. She may be ill or even be suffering from altzeimers to warrant being in a retirement home and unable to help. The retirement home would not allow her to have guests staying, as most of the 'clients' there have single small rooms.
If you googled the Salvation army in London, and asked their advice they may be able to help, by providing a shelter for your friend until he gets 'sorted out' with benefits which Joppa has suggested.They may even offer to meet him at the airport if no one else could! to take him to a place of shelter, as from what I read about him he would be classed as destitute, and a victim of Zimbabwe's regime. He could contact the local CAB, and they would advise where he has to go, and even help with the relevant forms he would need to fill in.
I don't know if there is anybody who contributes to this forum who is connected to the Salvation Army to give more advice, but it may be worth contacting them via their website, explain situation, they do fantastic work to help people.
Good luck


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

Well, apologies to the politically correct, but the ex-Rhodesians are a special breed and stick together, so if your friend can sort his paperwork and get as many facts out in the open as possible, then help is at hand. Details about the sister need to be put on the table.


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

Yes, the Salvation Army is a very good one. I actually spoke to the chairman of the Cape Town branch and he said they could put him up in London for a few weeks until he gets settled. A donation would not go unappreciated.

The Zim govt makes it as difficult as possible for white people to leave taking anything of material value with them. If you come out by coach, you are expected to "donate" something to the border guards. I personally expect him to arrive with the clothes he has and a paper bag with the rest. I have organised a trip to South Africa with a returning freight lorry who travel between Rustenburg (in Limpopo province) to Harare once a week and it will cost him nothing to get here. Strangely enough, the only charity in Johannesburg who were willing to assist is run by the Herformde Reformeerde Kerk and they have a place of safety for street people. I have actually paid for 2 weeks accommodation for him before his flight on 20th July. I am having him go to the Sandton Medi-Clinic when he arrives to get checked out


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## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

I'll agree with that, the Salvation Army are great people, and whilst I could never imagine myself singing and using a tambourine and joining them,because we are not really religious, we have always donated to them for the good causes they help throughout the world. They work truly selflessly.
Chris you are a very good friend to the gentleman who is going through such difficulties at the moment, I am sure he will be eternally grateful to you for caring so much, may your god bless you.


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

fergie said:


> I'll agree with that, the Salvation Army are great people, and whilst I could never imagine myself singing and using a tambourine and joining them,because we are not really religious, we have always donated to them for the good causes they help throughout the world. They work truly selflessly.
> Chris you are a very good friend to the gentleman who is going through such difficulties at the moment, I am sure he will be eternally grateful to you for caring so much, may your god bless you.


Thanks for all this assistance. I think I will await the doctor's report from the Sandton Medi-Clinic before I put him on the plane to Cape Town. I am a little suspicious that he might have some illness either physically or mentally since his letters to me are often contradictory and confused. I do know that white statemedical staff in Zim were treated badly by the govt, but cannot figure why it has taken him so long to do something about it. I last saw him in 2001 and he was ok then and told me he wanted to join his sister in London but she had an accident last year and is what has been described as "non compus mentis" which I took to mean some sort of dementia. Maybe he is showing signs of it, who knows? If the doctor thinks he is unfit to care for himself or travel, I have a retirement home lined up here which is supported by the Seventh-Day Adventists


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

2farapart said:


> He won't be entitled to a Basic State Pension because he hasn't paid National Insurance (the BSP requires many years of contribution and not everyone actually living in the UK right now are entitled either).
> 
> There is also the Guaranteed Income Scheme which aims to top up income to the minimum threshold for anyone of pensionable age living in the UK who doesn't receive a sufficient pension or other source of income - for a single person it's around £142 a week. He might be entitled to that. Take a look at this link: Pension Credit - introduction : Directgov - Pensions and retirement planning. You'll see there is a Pensions Helpline (they state to be ready with your National Insurance Number but just explain the situation and that he doesn't have one. Hopefully they can give you the advice your friend needs.


He has a National Insurance no on account of working in England in 1975


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

We're in London so just shout - although a bit financially challenged at the moment (who isn't!) --, but there's lots of other stuff we can do to help if need be.


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

chrisc2615 said:


> He has a National Insurance no on account of working in England in 1975


Excellent- will therefore be able to fast track on to benefits e. g. 1 week max.


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

gbu said:


> Excellent- will therefore be able to fast track on to benefits e. g. 1 week max.


Well, that will help! Thanks


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

gbu said:


> Excellent- will therefore be able to fast track on to benefits e. g. 1 week max.


No such thing. He will have to wait about two weeks at least for an answer, longer if further investigations are required. One of the things to be established is if he is ordinarily resident in UK, and this normally takes several weeks.


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

Joppa said:


> No such thing. He will have to wait about two weeks at least for an answer, longer if further investigations are required. One of the things to be established is if he is ordinarily resident in UK, and this normally takes several weeks.


Maybe, maybe not Joppa. 

1 week or 2, ... What's the difference.

In any event his claim should be able to be backdated to the day he walked into/ phoned the benefits office. 
If he has a strong case for immediate help, I suspect he'll get help immediately. 

If he's lucky he gets to see a decision maker straight away- makes all the difference really and to have all his ducks in a row before he goes in. 

Hell, he may even get money for some furniture ( I overheard a Jamaican on the phone confirming items he needed to the value of £1,920 the other day !!


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

I still don't understand why the guy isn't pushing for immediate assistance from the British consulate. 

He ticked the wrong box, really? But he worked for a hospital giving care to people of all races, all his life. 

Was he possibly an active party member of the racist and oppressive regime? If the answer is no, then the British government should make good on it's own promises to it's elderly and destitute kith and kin, abandoned at the worst of times. 

Tell him to go to the Consulate and make a case. Something doesn't sit quite right, or we don't have all the info.


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## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

I think, if the gentleman in question has seen his house burned down, not long ago his wife died, plus due to the conditions of not being paid regularly in his job in SA, loosing any pension in the SA system he might have been due, this would be enough to cause some kind of severe depression in most people, if you try and imagine yourself in that situation, rendering him almost incapable of 'arguing' his own case with the correct authorities. He may have effectively 'given up' due to grief.
Hopefully he will get the necessary help he needs to mend his broken life, and I hope his sister is well enough to know he will be near her if that is possible.


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

fergie said:


> I think, if the gentleman in question has seen his house burned down, not long ago his wife died, plus due to the conditions of not being paid regularly in his job in SA, loosing any pension in the SA system he might have been due, this would be enough to cause some kind of severe depression in most people, if you try and imagine yourself in that situation, rendering him almost incapable of 'arguing' his own case with the correct authorities. He may have effectively 'given up' due to grief.
> Hopefully he will get the necessary help he needs to mend his broken life, and I hope his sister is well enough to know he will be near her if that is possible.


Yes, very possible. 

One thing though is that he is still stuck in Zimbabwe- you seem to think he wasn't being paid in SA. It's in Zimbabwe that he hasn't been paid is what I gather from the OP. 

Other than that I completely agree that depression may have basically incapacitated him. 

Makes one then wonder how the OP is even going to manage to get the guy to hitch a ride with his bag of belongings out of the country he was loyal to for all those years.


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

My sister in law runs a transport business in Rustenburg in Limpopo. They send 3 very large lorries each week to Harare, mainly groceries and stuff. One of the lorries, when it comes back this Thursday, will call in Gwero at the hospital at about 2.00 in the afternoon and pick him up.

I had an email from him this morning and there is more than a paper bag coming back, he spoke of two large trunks, so who knows what is in them. South African lorries returning from Zim have no problems at the border, this driver has done the trip over 200 times. Getting over the SA/Zim border can often take over 24 hours there is such a queue (often several km long) and the Zim border guards work at a snails pace unless the transaction is lubricated with a US100 note.

When he gets to Rustenburg he will stay at Louise's house and next day they will drive him to Jhb, to the Sandton clinic as apparently he has a skin complaint, which is the one reason that prompted him to leave Zimbabwe as the medical treatment was useless.

btw: The sister in London has dementia and is in no fit state to assist. She has money but it is controller by the lawyers. I have exchanged a few emails with them but their attitude is that there is no provision in their brief for supporting her brother. I did extract an agreement to collect him from Heathrow when he arrives and take him to the Salvation Army in south east London.


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

gbu said:


> Sounds good. Send me a private message and I'll let you know my contact details for any advice or help here in London.


Just re-read your post, and it just so happens that we live in SE London - we could be his new neighbours soon!


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

The local Salvation Army person gave me an address of Elephant and Castle which I know is in south east London. He stays at one of their hostels for a few weeks until a suitable rented flat or house becomes available.

I have estimated that he might have to pay about £ 1100 a month, it that about right?

Before I send you a PM (thank you for this) I will await the report from the Sandton Medi-Clinic and who knows what might be the matter with him.


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

chrisc2615 said:


> The local Salvation Army person gave me an address of Elephant and Castle which I know is in south east London. He stays at one of their hostels for a few weeks until a suitable rented flat or house becomes available.
> 
> I have estimated that he might have to pay about £ 1100 a month, it that about right?
> 
> Before I send you a PM (thank you for this) I will await the report from the Sandton Medi-Clinic and who knows what might be the matter with him.


Seems expensive for a charity to charge but the Olympics are on over the next 2 months roughly so who knows. Bummer. 
We pay less for rent, council tax, plus all utilities in zone 2.


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

No, I did not express myself properly. I was talking about the rent, etc for a flat or house in south east London. 

The Salvation Army bit comes out of the £500 I am giving him before he leaves, I doubt they will charge much. The food is not what I would call gourmet and you have to share a bathroom, etc. Still, it is a roof and a bit of Christianity will do no harm I am sure.

One of my Muslim friends in Cape Town says he can fix him up with any one of several Muslim charities in London, but he might feel uncomfortable there, plus you are expected to get up really early and go to mosque


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

chrisc2615 said:


> No, I did not express myself properly. I was talking about the rent, etc for a flat or house in south east London.
> 
> The Salvation Army bit comes out of the £500 I am giving him before he leaves, I doubt they will charge much. The food is not what I would call gourmet and you have to share a bathroom, etc. Still, it is a roof and a bit of Christianity will do no harm I am sure.
> 
> One of my Muslim friends in Cape Town says he can fix him up with any one of several Muslim charities in London, but he might feel uncomfortable there, plus you are expected to get up really early and go to mosque


Each area has a LHA ( Local Housing Allowance) for people on Housing Benefit- details were on the link I posted but deleted by the mods as its deemed to be a competitor to this forum!

His current state of mind is for you and him to discuss. Be aware that it's a rough ride adapting- even the weather is a mental challenge.
Throwing in another religion seems to be counter productive to say the least but you know the guy. 

Good luck and Bon Voyage.


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

Bit of a disaster today. Lorry arrived at Gwero Hospital today for his lift back to SA. One of the "trunks" was a packing case which weighed over 100kg and took 4 guys to lift in the lorry. Heaven knows how he expects to take this on a plane! He arrived in Rustenburg 30 mins ago and will go to Jhb tomorrow.

More...


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

chrisc2615 said:


> Bit of a disaster today. Lorry arrived at Gwero Hospital today for his lift back to SA. One of the "trunks" was a packing case which weighed over 100kg and took 4 guys to lift in the lorry. Heaven knows how he expects to take this on a plane! He arrived in Rustenburg 30 mins ago and will go to Jhb tomorrow.
> 
> More...


Good laugh
He ain't heavy, he's my brother, takes on a new twist...
He's your mate, mate


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

Man has shingles, that is his complaint. So he will stay in hospital until Saturday since they want to run some blood tests.

Damn wooden crate weighs 180kg and I told Louise to open it up (it has steel bands around it) since it cannot be furniture, it is too heavy for the size. Definitely not to go on a plane and even by ship it will cost an arm and a leg


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

Calamity *big* time! The wooden crate contained guns and ammunition. Apparently some AK-47s, other rifles and stuff and lots of what seems to be unopened ammunition. No wonder it was so heavy.

Police have been called and the brown stuff is really hitting the fan in a big way, they are dying to arrest someone, I even had a phone call from a detective in Jhb whether I knew what was coming. He (the detective) said that the stuff seems to be pretty old and left over from the bush war which ended in 1979. They will make an inventory of it all.

So he is in the dwang since I told the detective he was at the Sandton Medi-Clinic. He will be what the police call "assisting with their enquiries". Worst case scenario is that he gets deported unless there is a good reason for bringing 180kg of weapons into the country, but I cannot think of anything.

Maybe this will hasten his departure. I called my lawyer friend and he suggested that this guy apply for asylum. This will have the effect of having everyone take a step back, police included.

I am very disappointed that I have had the wool pulled over my eyes. Here I thought I was helping out a guy I was at university with who had become the victim of circumstances beyond his control, then he tries to smuggle weapons into the country! My wife is furious and my two friends who are helping to organise his trip are shocked.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

I've been following this thread from the start. Please keep us updated, and I hope none of this blows back on you-after all, you are the one who rang the authorities so it should be clear you aren't involved. 

Wow, wow, wow!


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

AnAmericanInScotland said:


> I've been following this thread from the start. Please keep us updated, and I hope none of this blows back on you-after all, you are the one who rang the authorities so it should be clear you aren't involved.
> 
> Wow, wow, wow!



It was my sister in law in Rustenburg who called the cops, actually her husband when they opened the case. He said they felt quite sick when they looked inside. Some of the bayonets had dried blood on them. The detective who came with the SAPS was equally amazed, he had never seen such a large quantity of weapons since leaving the army in 1980. I am sitting here in Cape Town 1800 km away. 

I just sent all the emails I had exchanged with this guy to the SAPS Pretoria who run the illegal arms squad.

Apparently he will be arrested when he is discharged from hospital, probably tomorrow but will not have to spend the week-end in the cells, as long as they know where he is.


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

Hey, congratulations to you and your family on busting your mate. 
From one prison to another- what a laugh. 
Enjoy.


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

gbu said:


> Hey, congratulations to you and your family on busting your mate.
> From one prison to another- what a laugh.
> Enjoy.



Its tragic really. The detective told me that gangsters in Jhb use people in Zim to smuggle weapons to South Africa since the country (Zim) is awash with guns and stuff. What he really wants to know is where the stuff was destined, then they have a chance of catching the distributors.

I suppose if you are really hard up and someone comes along and offers you $10000 or so for transporting stuff, you might look the other way. Seeing the lorry transport was only organised about 10 days ago, someone must have known about it.

Just to put the knife in, I also phoned a reporter on the news desk at the Sunday Times, a newspaper which is known for publishing anything. They were quite interested and called me back, so I told them the whole story. The lady reporter said that the Sunday Times might even contribute to setting this guy up outside SA as she also thought deportation (not to Zim) would be a likely outcome.

I must just write a quick note to David Cameron....


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## mehemlynn (Nov 16, 2011)

chrisc2615 said:


> Calamity *big* time! The wooden crate contained guns and ammunition. Apparently some AK-47s, other rifles and stuff and lots of what seems to be unopened ammunition. No wonder it was so heavy.
> 
> Police have been called and the brown stuff is really hitting the fan in a big way, they are dying to arrest someone, I even had a phone call from a detective in Jhb whether I knew what was coming. He (the detective) said that the stuff seems to be pretty old and left over from the bush war which ended in 1979. They will make an inventory of it all.
> 
> ...



As strange as this sounds, I hope for your sake, that your friend does have some (mental) illness, or form of dementia . In that case he might have been very confused, but not trying to get one over on you. 

It is a good thing your family opened the case, if you had shipped it; then your names would have been on it; completely changing your (and your family's) involvement in gun running.

M


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

There is a stencil on the packing case: M.SHABALALA, 103 TWIST ST, JOHANNESBURG in two places. Twist Street in Hillbrow, Jhb is the very heart of gangster-land. What we need to find out is whether friend was " delivering" it or whether someone asked him to pop it in the lorry so to speak. Nobody has come to claim it yet. I tried to phone him at the Sandton Clinic but the nurse answered the phone in his room and said he was in the bathroom.

Must say the detective does not assume guilt as many policemen do and told me that he would be placed under caution tomorrow as there are facets of this affair thatdo not tie up, given what I told him about what our plans were regarding sending to live in the UK.


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

chrisc2615 said:


> There is a stencil on the packing case: M.SHABALALA, 103 TWIST ST, JOHANNESBURG in two places. Twist Street in Hillbrow, Jhb is the very heart of gangster-land. What we need to find out is whether friend was " delivering" it or whether someone asked him to pop it in the lorry so to speak. Nobody has come to claim it yet. I tried to phone him at the Sandton Clinic but the nurse answered the phone in his room and said he was in the bathroom.
> 
> Must say the detective does not assume guilt as many policemen do and told me that he would be placed under caution tomorrow as there are facets of this affair thatdo not tie up, given what I told him about what our plans were regarding sending to live in the UK.


As I said before, 
Something doesn't sit quite right, or we don't have all the info.

Policeman says all very old stuff- sounds like trophies from days gone by- obviously he was hoping to make some quick cash on the way through seeing as he's destitute and sick- I mean it's going to be kak seeing his life out in the UK with no money, no friends, bad weather etc . Isn't there enough weaponry circulating in SA - why would any of this 'ancient stuff' as evidenced by the police, be of any use to anyone?


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## liam85 (May 24, 2012)

You can put an AK in the ground for 10 years, come back to it, dust it off and it will still fire! So stored correctly I am sure they will be good to go.


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

Well, we will have to wait and see. Since everything is occurring up north, I must just be advised by those on the ground. Apparently the AK47 was in working order, the detective cocked it and the firing pin activated when he pulled the trigger.


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

Update:

No arrests made, he has left hospital (has shingles and is anemic) and is staying at the HRK hostel in Sunnyside. I have had to postpone the flight scheduled for 20th July as he might be asked to appear in court. I have arranged a mobile phone for him so I can keep in touch.

The SAPS raided the house in Hillbrow the address of which was imprinted on the side of the case and recovered a great deal of illegal arms, drugs, 11 illegal immigrants (why am I not surprised), so 15 people are in prison. 

It turns out that someone at the hospital arranged for this case to be loaded onto the lorry, as they asked him to take a "package" to their relatives in Jhb, but as soon as they found out that it was a 5 ton lorry coming, the package grew by leaps and bounds.

Still, he has broken the law in allowing illegal arms to be imported without a permit, which is of course impossible to obtain. There are apparently 32 military weapons and 444 pieces of ammunition in the case, including 6 rocket-propelled grenades and a launcher. No wonder the detective got excited. You could do quite a bit of damage with this. In addition, gangsters in Jhb are selling on weapons to the Free Syria Army, so maybe this is where this was destined.


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

chrisc2615 said:


> Well, we will have to wait and see. Since everything is occurring up north, I must just be advised by those on the ground. Apparently the AK47 was in working order, the detective cocked it and the firing pin activated when he pulled the trigger.


Only one AK47 ! LOL

Your mate probably had that as a last resort for protection against mugabe's thugs roaming around attacking whites or political opponents. 

They are all absolutely defenceless, you do realise that, able to be beaten or picked off at will. 

Very stupid to pack it all- why not dig a hole and bury it all. Perhaps it was a comfort to him during hard, depressing times, and he was attached in a sentimental way to old army issue. 

However you look at it, the guy seems to be harmless, just caught up now in the nightmare that this politically correct world has become!

Anyhow, I hope you remain friends, but can't see that happening since you instructed his stuff to be opened without his knowledge or permission I assume, and your family dobbed him in in.

He very stupidly of course put those around him at risk.

Sad and tragic, almost of Shakespearean proportions.


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

chrisc2615 said:


> Update:
> 
> No arrests made, he has left hospital (has shingles and is anemic) and is staying at the HRK hostel in Sunnyside. I have had to postpone the flight scheduled for 20th July as he might be asked to appear in court,
> 
> ...


Ah, your update makes more sense now- my last post is a little irrelevant based on this news.


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

I still think he is a bit of twit in allowing such a heavy case to accompany him. I asked him whether the colleague who asked him to take it paid him anything, and he said no. He realises now that it must have been guns since it took them 30 mins to try and lift this into the lorry. Even the driver asked them what was inside and they told him it was soapstone carvings, which can be fairly valuable.

If he had been inspected at Biet Bridge border crossing by SA Customs, they would have thrown him into prison there and then. It is so busy there and over 1000 empty lorries a day coming back that they seldom look.


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

I agree. 

Soapstone story is plausible as the stuff is damn heavy. 

Also, the guy just wants to leave, and saying No, to a group asking to take a trunk full of 'soapstone carvings' may have complicated his departure somewhat !!!!!


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

chrisc2615 said:


> the driver asked them what was inside and they told him it was soapstone carvings, which can be fairly valuable.


In fact your family's driver is at fault. 
He KNEW the trunk was coming from a 3rd party and yet he didn't insist on checking the contents. 

He should have checked as the responsible person in charge of the truck. 

If he didn't have the balls to check something that took ages to load, (or he was bribed, or personally agreed to, then surely the driver and not your friend needs to take full responsibility. 

You and your family need to cut your friend some slack. 

From the sounds of things he just wanted to get out of that hell hole.


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

The driver comes from Zimbabwe and most of his family are there. The transport co only employ Zim drivers for the bi-weekly trip to Harare since they know the ropes better.

I cannot see the driver checking anything, it is not his job and he certainly won't get into trouble with it. 

The case was screwed shut and also had 6 steel bands across it. They had to use an angle-grinder to cut off the steel bands and then remove the screws. The driver has tyre changing equipment and the minimum amount of tools, since things get stolen quickly. One driver once went into the bush at the side of the road for a no 2 and when he came back, some of the wheels had been stolen

Friend now in Jhb seems quite cheerful and is spending the day with a friend of mine in Northcliff. One thing that amazes him is the variety of goods in the shops. In Zim you mosly saw empty shelves. I told him, wait till you get to London, there is 10 times more there.


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

chrisc2615 said:


> The driver comes from Zimbabwe and most of his family are there. The transport co only employ Zim drivers for the bi-weekly trip to Harare since they know the ropes better.
> 
> I cannot see the driver checking anything, it is not his job and he certainly won't get into trouble with it.
> 
> ...


I assume your name's Chris, yes you're quite right on almost everything. 

BUT between the 2 of them the driver was responsible. He could see what was going on, it was without a shadow of doubt a 3rd party involved and calling the shots, NOT your mate. 

Hell, the driver probably knew EXACTLY what was going on , but you'll never get him to admit it. 

I'm not sure if you're aware of the level of intimidation going on in Zim, and the consequences of not towing the line. It's so f up there you cannot trust anyone- boundaries are blurred, friends quickly become your most severe threat etc etc. 

It's not Cape Town ! And what a great city that was- fond memories. 

Being a zimbo driver, everything is now starting to really make sense. 

Very nice to hear your mate is on the up- he's probably feeling like a human being again!!


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

One of the guys arrested at the SAPS raid in Hillbrow seems to have been Ahmet bin Ferzat, a well-known Free Syrian Army procurer. He has been in trouble before trying to bribe a Denel employee (a South African arms manufacturer) to acquire missile guidance systems and was supposed to have been deported. He slipped back to continue his work it seems and did not care who he was mixing with.

This was on the TV news last night. They did not specify the address, but said group of illegal immigrants and a weapons cache had been seized at an address in Hillbrow, together with Mr Ferzat had been apprehended and would appear in court on Monday

Zimbabwe and Mocambique are still supplying used arms to whoever bids the highest. A very dodgy way to make a living. You can "disappear" if someone takes a dislike to you.


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

chrisc2615 said:


> ...This was on the TV news last night. They did not specify the address, but said group of illegal immigrants and a weapons cache had been seized at an address in Hillbrow, together with Mr Ferzat had been apprehended and would appear in court on Monday...


Any chance of a link to that TV piece?

Are you over the shock yet of being caught up in all of this? Wow!


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

I'll have to find if eTV has links on the net. It was part of a report in crimewatch where they list the latest events. Last night also included a SA Cabinet Minister whose boyfriend enriched himself with "donations" from Vodafone. 

And then in Cape Town, if you get caught with a mobile phone to your ear whilst driving, it gets confiscated and there is a R 500 fine.

That you can see at: Traffic cops confiscate cellphones | News24


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

chrisc2615 said:


> I'll have to find if eTV has links on the net. It was part of a report in crimewatch where they list the latest events. Last night also included a SA Cabinet Minister whose boyfriend enriched himself with "donations" from Vodafone.
> 
> And then in Cape Town, if you get caught with a mobile phone to your ear whilst driving, it gets confiscated and there is a R 500 fine.
> 
> That you can see at: Traffic cops confiscate cellphones | News24


Thank-you!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

chrisc2615 said:


> I'll have to find if eTV has links on the net. It was part of a report in crimewatch where they list the latest events. Last night also included a SA Cabinet Minister whose boyfriend enriched himself with "donations" from Vodafone.
> 
> And then in Cape Town, if you get caught with a mobile phone to your ear whilst driving, it gets confiscated and there is a R 500 fine.
> 
> That you can see at: Traffic cops confiscate cellphones | News24


Sorry, I'm confused. What does a clip about confiscating cell phones have to do with your friend and the seizure of illegal weapons he was duped into bringing into the country? 

Also, kind of surprising a search for Ahmet bin Ferzat brings up nothing.


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

Nothing much, it was part of an ongoing story. Sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes. I will not post any more


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## chrisc2615 (Jun 30, 2012)

chrisc2615 said:


> Nothing much, it was part of an ongoing story. Sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes. I will not post any more



Arthur died yesterday after having knocked down by a taxi as he was crossing the street in Jhb.

Thanks to all who contributed comments, kind and unkind ones.

The 5 people arrested in Hillbrow, along with Ahmet (spelling?) are due to go on trial on 5th November. One has turned state's witness which will hasten the case


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## gbu (Apr 7, 2011)

chrisc2615 said:


> Arthur died yesterday after having knocked down by a taxi as he was crossing the street in Jhb.
> 
> Thanks to all who contributed comments, kind and unkind ones.
> 
> The 5 people arrested in Hillbrow, along with Ahmet (spelling?) are due to go on trial on 5th November. One has turned state's witness which will hasten the case


Terrible news, sorry to hear. 

A niggle in the back of the head says this may not have been an accident... But I'm sure that's not the case. 

Anyway, well done for at least being part of the solution and not part of the problem. 

Cheers and keep well.


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## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

gbu said:


> Terrible news, sorry to hear.
> 
> A niggle in the back of the head says this may not have been an accident... But I'm sure that's not the case.
> 
> ...


Agree with you, what a sad end to this story.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

condolences

Jo xxx


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## mehemlynn (Nov 16, 2011)

chrisc2615 said:


> Arthur died yesterday after having knocked down by a taxi as he was crossing the street in Jhb.
> 
> Thanks to all who contributed comments, kind and unkind ones.
> 
> The 5 people arrested in Hillbrow, along with Ahmet (spelling?) are due to go on trial on 5th November. One has turned state's witness which will hasten the case


So sorry to hear such sad news.

M


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## AnAmericanInScotland (Feb 8, 2012)

chrisc2615 said:


> Arthur died yesterday after having knocked down by a taxi as he was crossing the street in Jhb.
> 
> Thanks to all who contributed comments, kind and unkind ones.
> 
> The 5 people arrested in Hillbrow, along with Ahmet (spelling?) are due to go on trial on 5th November. One has turned state's witness which will hasten the case


Thank-you for the update. What a tragic ending for the poor man


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

A Mass will be offered for the repose of his soul next week.
RIP.


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