# Spanish compliance bonds



## Frazer and jill (Aug 18, 2016)

Hi all . Just looking into investing some money and was looking at the Spanish compliance bonds . I’ve heard and read mixed reviews on these . I am aware of the tax implications / benefits BUT Was after some advice on people who have taken these out and if whether lived up to expectations ?


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Frazer and jill said:


> Hi all . Just looking into investing some money and was looking at the Spanish compliance bonds . I’ve heard and read mixed reviews on these . I am aware of the tax implications / benefits BUT Was after some advice on people who have taken these out and if whether lived up to expectations ?


There is absolutely no doubt that they offer tax efficiency. Whether or not they live up to expectations depends upon what you were expecting! Each investor must decide what they put into the tax wrapper and that will depend upon what you are hoping to earn and the level of risk you are prepared to take to achieve your goal. A regulated financial adviser will ask clients to complete a questionnaire to determine level of risk. Obviously, low-risk investments (for example, high grade corporate bonds) will not give eye-watering returns. High risk investments, like shares in emerging markets, can provide spectacular returns but you could also lose your shirt! My medium risk portfolio has performed well over the past 12 years but crashed earlier this year due to Covid-19. It is slowly recovering but the capital value is still about 20% below the December 2019 valuation! Speak to a reputable financial adviser. There is a Blevins Franks office in Javea (https://www.blevinsfranks.com/)


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## Frazer and jill (Aug 18, 2016)

Thank you for the info .


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## Ramalamadingdong (May 26, 2020)

Frazer and jill said:


> Hi all . Just looking into investing some money and was looking at the Spanish compliance bonds . I’ve heard and read mixed reviews on these . I am aware of the tax implications / benefits BUT Was after some advice on people who have taken these out and if whether lived up to expectations ?


Spanish compliance bonds are just a manipulation of Spanish tax laws and represent restrictive practice. However it’s a do as you are told system.

You need to understand that the investment industry is riddled with scammers and commission hungry so called advisors.:juggle:

Any and all bond investments are a game of chance. Greed can lead you to losing your shirt and the authorities won’t care if you have been scammed. :clap2:


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Ramalamadingdong said:


> Spanish compliance bonds are just a manipulation of Spanish tax laws and represent restrictive practice. However it’s a do as you are told system.
> 
> You need to understand that the investment industry is riddled with scammers and commission hungry so called advisors.:juggle:
> 
> Any and all bond investments are a game of chance. Greed can lead you to losing your shirt and the authorities won’t care if you have been scammed. :clap2:


Agreed, the investment industry is riddled with scammers, just like so many others (Arthur Daley car dealers and a certain breed of estate agent jump instantly to mind). That is why it is important to take advice only from a reputable, well-regulated financial adviser and not that bloke you met in the bar last night. There is nothing wrong with seeking a decent return on your savings but anyone guaranteeing an annual 15% interest rate should immediately be shown the door. With banks now offering next to nothing in interest, and central bankers actually charging to look after cash, it is only natural that people should look for ways of securing an income from their capital and guarding against inflation. It is quite common for governments around the world to encourage saving by offering tax concessions (UK ISAs are another example) and I see nothing wrong with the Spanish system.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

The Skipper said:


> There is absolutely no doubt that they offer tax efficiency. Whether or not they live up to expectations depends upon what you were expecting! Each investor must decide what they put into the tax wrapper and that will depend upon what you are hoping to earn and the level of risk you are prepared to take to achieve your goal. A regulated financial adviser will ask clients to complete a questionnaire to determine level of risk. Obviously, low-risk investments (for example, high grade corporate bonds) will not give eye-watering returns. High risk investments, like shares in emerging markets, can provide spectacular returns but you could also lose your shirt! My medium risk portfolio has performed well over the past 12 years but crashed earlier this year due to Covid-19. It is slowly recovering but the capital value is still about 20% below the December 2019 valuation! Speak to a reputable financial adviser. There is a Blevins Franks office in Javea (https://www.blevinsfranks.com/)


 What is the Spanish name for these, please?


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> What is the Spanish name for these, please?


I am afraid that I have no idea what the Spanish name is! I have only ever known them as Spanish compliant bonds or, as you will see from the attached article, they are also referred to as "tax efficient investment wrappers" and "portfolio bonds." 
https://www.blevinsfranks.com/news/blevinsfranks/article/spain-tax-portfolio-assuance-bonds


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## Ramalamadingdong (May 26, 2020)

Pesky Wesky said:


> What is the Spanish name for these, please?


Spanish compliance bonds


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

The Skipper said:


> I am afraid that I have no idea what the Spanish name is! I have only ever known them as Spanish compliant bonds or, as you will see from the attached article, they are also referred to as "tax efficient investment wrappers" and "portfolio bonds."
> https://www.blevinsfranks.com/news/blevinsfranks/article/spain-tax-portfolio-assuance-bonds


Maybe "Bonos del estado"


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Maybe "Bonos del estado"


I suspect so, if that is what is is, they are not doing so well at the, though that is to be expected. But in the longer term that are potentially a good option.

I think Mary uses them, perhaps she knows whether Bonos del estado is the Spanish term. She uses some kind of broker, but even so if you are interested in this you could PM her.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

EverHopeful said:


> I suspect so, if that is what is is, they are not doing so well at the, though that is to be expected. But in the longer term that are potentially a good option.
> 
> I think Mary uses them, perhaps she knows whether Bonos del estado is the Spanish term. She uses some kind of broker, but even so if you are interested in this you could PM her.


My investments are in a Spanish wrapper but I have no idea what that is called in Spanish.

Maybe @Paul Griffiths can help?


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## Turtles (Jan 9, 2011)

They are *nothing* to do with Bonos de Estado. Those are government bonds, like UK Gilts. You are talking about an investment wrapper which, although it is referred to as a bond, is actually just a tax wrapper - like an ISA or a pension fund. It could contain a wide variety of investments, with commissions that range from the reasonable to the scandalous.

For those who don't know their way around the investment world, I would suggest that a roboadviser is a more transparent way of getting the right combination of tax efficiency, low fees and good performance. Some Spanish banks now offer these. Your investment will still fluctuate, but this will be in line with financial markets, and not an adviser or fund manager taking out more than they should or making crazy choices on your behalf.

I have a background in the investment industry and several friends and relatives have come to me recently asking me to comment on products that their banks have recommended to them. I am absolutely disgusted at the way they are taking advantage of people who, although intelligent, are far too busy to understand how they are being bled of fees. 
To summarize what you should be looking for: if anyone suggests that you should pay an upfront fee to invest your money in a fund, or should be subject to annual fees above 1%, just walk away.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Turtles said:


> They are *nothing* to do with Bonos de Estado. Those are government bonds, like UK Gilts. You are talking about an investment wrapper which, although it is referred to as a bond, is actually just a tax wrapper - like an ISA or a pension fund. It could contain a wide variety of investments, with commissions that range from the reasonable to the scandalous.
> 
> For those who don't know their way around the investment world, I would suggest that a roboadviser is a more transparent way of getting the right combination of tax efficiency, low fees and good performance. Some Spanish banks now offer these. Your investment will still fluctuate, but this will be in line with financial markets, and not an adviser or fund manager taking out more than they should or making crazy choices on your behalf.
> 
> ...


Sound advice, it's a minefield.


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