# renouncing US citizenship at London embassy



## amills (May 23, 2013)

I shall be returning to the UK in November after 20 years in the US. I have dual nationality. I would like to renounce my US citizenship before the end of this year so that I can file my last US tax return in 2013. 

I have read alarming reports of a long waiting list to get an appointment at the US embassy in London. Does anyone have recent experience?

Also can I apply for an appointment before I return or do I have to be already resident in England to do so? I'm thinking if the wait list is say 3 months, I could apply in September from here.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Don't assume that by renouncing your US citizenship, you will be free from ever having to file US tax returns. If they suspect your renunciation was motivated by tax reasons, they can still compel you to file future returns or impose penalty.
See Expatriation Tax


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## amills (May 23, 2013)

Well, I think that probably many people renounce their US citizenship because of some feeling around the tax situation. It is not a passport you can stick in a drawer and forget about! You have to file a tax return every year regardless of where you are living, and declare foreign bank accounts above (I think) $10,000 each year. 

I don't have a large income or many assets. I'm grateful to have lived in the States but my emotional and family ties are in the UK and I do not plan to return to the States. I am returning to the UK to retire. I do have a small flat in the UK which I bought when I lived there and I want to sell this according to the UK tax laws rather than those of the US - so in that sense I do also have tax reasons to renounce.


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## Rev Susi (May 26, 2013)

*londonrenunciations*

I have read alarming reports of a long waiting list to get an appointment at the US embassy in London. Does anyone have recent experience?

There is an email address on the Embassy website (it's londonrenunciations... But I don't have it handy. You write to them and ask for advice on the procedure. In my experience (last month), the address bounced, and so I went to the 'contact' page and complained. They responded within a week, with lots of documents and forms. You send them what they need by email (this means scanning your passports and so forth) and then they will give you a date. You must show up on that date, or else apparently you have to start over. I haven't had a response yet, but this is a holiday weekend and it was only a week ago. People who should know have told me that the waiting time for the appointment is a couple of weeks, and then, if you have asked for a telephone interview pre-renunciation, just to be sure, you get that in about a month, and if it's just the interview, it's allocated for the next month on a first-come, first-served basis. I'm waiting to hear, so I don't know yet, but when I hear I'll try to post here. I expect that appointment before the end of July, though. If I understood the email correctly, there is a limited number of appointments for any given month, because the official who does it is not available frequently, and they try to put them all on one day. No idea how many applications they receive, though.

Also can I apply for an appointment before I return or do I have to be already resident in England to do so? I'm thinking if the wait list is say 3 months, I could apply in September from here.[/QUOTE]

I'd guess you could try it with about two months delay, but maybe my information about the timing was incorrect. I certainly hope not, but I'm still waiting.

Hope this helps.


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## Pacifica (Oct 19, 2011)

@AMills, 

You do not to be in the UK when you book your appointment as London books via internet. E-mail the Embassy at [email protected] Booking procedures vary a bit from place to place. Last I heard (April 2013), London, in replying to your e-mail, will ask you to send them scans of several identity documents which they list, and to fill out and return a one page “Informal Renunciation Acknowledgement” (yes/no questions, mainly that you’re acting voluntarily and understand the consequences) and the four page DS-4079 questionnaire (questions about your background, such as citizenships, where you’ve lived, etc.). Once you reply to their e-mail, they’ll e-mail you back to set up an appointment date.

You’re not required to give a reason why you are renouncing. There is no question on the questionnaires asking for a reason, nor should that question come up at the consulate. I am aware of a few cases where it was asked verbally (in the cases I know of, it was asked in a conversational sense, not an aggressive sense – my theory is that two years ago, vice consuls were curious about all of a sudden having lots of people renouncing). If you are asked, you could simply say because you will live the rest of your life in the UK. I know someone who said because she wanted to simplify her life. But I doubt you’ll be asked in 2013.

At the expatriation meeting at the consulate, the focus tends to be that the person is aware of the consequences of terminating US citizenship (DS-4081) and that your documents are in order. The meetings tend to be brief, pleasant and professional, and London has a good reputation for that and for efficiency.

Regarding taxes, for a 2013 renunciation the following are due by 15 June 2014: (a) 1040 covering Jan 1st to the day before renunciation; (b) Only if you have US source income after renouncing, 1040-NR covering renunciation day to Dec 31st, for your US source income only; (c) the 8854 exit tax form. 

If you have no US source income after renouncing, these will be your last IRS filings. If you do have US source income after renouncing, you’d file a 1040-NR in future years, but that’s the same as any non-resident alien with US source income.


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## amills (May 23, 2013)

Rev Susi and Pacifica, Thank you for the responses. Very helpful. 

Rev Susi - I would love to hear when you get the appointment as that will be a good indicator of how long the wait is at the moment.


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## john35 (Jan 17, 2013)

I'll paste something I posted in another thread



After returning the forms on 24 January (all communication other than the Final Interview was by email), I was informed that I was on a Waiting List for an appointment in March. However, on 11 February I was informed that, following a cancellation, there was an appointment available on 21 February. You won't get on the waiting list until you return all of the required forms and you may have to be persistent in emailing them to actually send you the forms

Over three months later I still haven't received my Certificate of Loss of Nationality (you'd think for a $450 fee they could hire more staff to deal with the backlogue but the backlogue was the excuse I was given) but, when it does come, the effective date will be 21 February so I'm not too bothered

There's a little more on what I had to say about the overall process on another thread if you search 'renouncing us citizenship in London' (sorry but as a newbie I can't post a URL link


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## Rev Susi (May 26, 2013)

*Renouncing in London*

@John35
I don't know if I updated here on the time frame, but I contacted the US Embassy in London to ask for an appointment, received the answer within the week, got all my paperwork together and scanned it into the computer, emailed it back, and received an appointment for a date 3 weeks later. So very speedy and efficient, once you figure out how to get through to them. 
My appointment is a week from tomorrow. The hardest thing is not carrying my iPad or phone, and knowing where to leave them. Nothing containing a battery is permitted. I guess if I were acting the way the US does, I'd worry about things like that too. I'll check my devices at Paddington, pop over to the Embassy, then go straight back. Usually I combine a trip to London with some fun things for myself, but I don't think this time I'll feel like staying for a concert or fancy meal out. 
I'll report on the interview when I've had it, but it sounds like it will be pretty straightforward.
Thanks to everybody for their support.


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## Sinan (Sep 10, 2013)

Am I correct to assume from this discussion that the US embassy in London now requires only a single appointment?

I have to deal with the FBAR reporting from a couple of years ago, but once I get that resolved, I'll do this within ten minutes if I can. I'll fly anywhere to get this millstone from around my neck off as quickly as possible.


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## amills (May 23, 2013)

Yes, that seems to be the case - only one appointment. Email [email protected] and they will send you 12 documents. I am waiting until I return to London next month to scan and send in my information to the Embassy. I will then hopefully get an appointment to renounce soon after that. 

This is the information you need to send in to request an appointment (copied from the email they sent me): 1. Copy of your U.S. or foreign birth certificate. 2. Copies of the Bio-pages of the most recent U.S. passport and all current foreign passports. 3. Copies of all Certificates of Naturalization or Certificates of Citizenship for any country, including the United States (if applicable). 4. Copy of U.S. Birth Certificate or U.S. Consular Report of Birth Abroad (if applicable). 5. Copies of all marriage certificates, divorce decrees or other change of name documents (if applicable). 6. Completed DS-4079. 7. Completed Renunciation Questionnaire. 8. Completed Informal Renunciation Acknowledgement. (must be signed/dated and scanned back to us)


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## Sinan (Sep 10, 2013)

OK, thanks a lot, maybe I'll give them a try then. I'm not sure why they require so much information that has nothing to do with US citizenship status, though.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

It's because they cannot make you stateless on cancelling your US citizenship. So proof of your other nationality or nationalities, and things that may affect your nationality status like marriage and divorce (under some countries' nationality laws) need to be produced. This is standard procedure in UK when renouncing British citizenship.


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## amills (May 23, 2013)

Had my "in-person final renunciation appointment" at the American Embassy in London yesterday. 

I had emailed all my scanned forms and documents to [email protected] on 1 October. Heard back a few days later and my appointment was 8 October. First an embassy worker took me through the initial paperwork and questions, and sent me to the cashier to pay the $450 fee and downstairs to pay £8.85 for a courier envelope for the Certificate of Loss of Nationality to be sent to me once approved by the Department of State in Washington. Then I saw a Vice Consul and read out the Oath of Renunciation. A few papers where stamped and she gave me a letter acknowledging receipt of my US passport and stating that a Certificate of Loss of Nationality had been forwarded to Washington for approval. She said I should receive the Certificate in 8 to 10 weeks.

One slight hiccup going through security. One is told that one cannot bring in any electronic devices or bulky bags. I used my computer bag to carry my papers in (without the computer of course), but there was a forgotten memory stick still in the bag. This showed up on the scanner. The security office told me I could go and store it in a facility nearby or throw it away in a bin in the park opposite. I went and dumped it in the park.


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