# refused uk spouse visa



## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Hi all
looking for some advice. My wife has had her spouse visa refused on the grounds of financial requirements.
we thought we had satisfied all the requirements but may have submitted much of the information in the wrong formats. 
For example electronic bank statements not stamped.
payslips submitted but copies and no P60.
I was not aware of the full details about submission at the time and believe I do have or can get all the necessary documents and satisfy the financial requirements. 
Should the ECO have contacted me? Do you think I have grounds to appeal the decision. 
On the refusal notice it simply states.....
EC-P .1.1(c) Financial Requirements and absolutely no explanation aat all. They should have given me at least some detail? The ECP ref seems to refer to just general conditions? 
Anyone help ?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Type out exactly what the letter says removing any personal details.

The ECO is under no obligation to contact you. The guidance specifically states that documents must be original.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Hi Nyclon
It's completely blank in the ECO reasons section, absolutely nothing except that reference and FINANCIAL REQUIREMENTS above the heading ECO REASONS FOR REFUSAL.

Thanks


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

I think it has to be an error on their part to leave the whole sheet blank, but again not in itself a reason for appealing and being able to submit the ccorrectly formatted documentation?


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

I couldn't amend any of the personal info. But it's minimal.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

This is what S-EC says:


Section S-EC: Suitability-entry clearance
S-EC.1.1. The applicant will be refused entry clearance on grounds of suitability if any of paragraphs S-EC.1.2. to 1.8. apply.
S-EC.1.2. The Secretary of State has personally directed that the exclusion of the applicant from the UK is conducive to the public good.
S-EC.1.3. The applicant is currently the subject of a deportation order.
S-EC.1.4. The exclusion of the applicant from the UK is conducive to the public good because they have:
(a) been convicted of an offence for which they have been sentenced to a period of imprisonment of at least 4 years; or
(b) been convicted of an offence for which they have been sentenced to a period of imprisonment of at least 12 months but less than 4 years, unless a period of 10 years has passed since the end of the sentence; or
(c) been convicted of an offence for which they have been sentenced to a period of imprisonment of less than 12 months, unless a period of 5 years has passed since the end of the sentence.
Where this paragraph applies, unless refusal would be contrary to the Human Rights Convention or the Convention and Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees, it will only be in exceptional circumstances that the public interest in maintaining refusal will be outweighed by compelling factors.
S-EC.1.5. The exclusion of the applicant from the UK is conducive to the public good because, for example, the applicant's conduct (including convictions which do not fall within paragraph S- EC.1.4.), character, associations, or other reasons, make it undesirable to grant them entry clearance.
S-EC.1.6. The applicant has failed without reasonable excuse to comply with a requirement to- (a) attend an interview;
(b) provide information; (c) provide physical data; or (d) undergo a medical examination or provide a medical report.
S-EC.1.7. It is undesirable to grant entry clearance to the applicant for medical reasons.
S-EC.1.8. The applicant left or was removed from the UK as a condition of a caution issued in accordance with section 22 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 less than 5 years prior to the date on which the application is decided.
5
S-EC.2.1. The applicant will normally be refused on grounds of suitability if any of paragraphs S-EC.2.2. to 2.5. apply.
S-EC.2.2. Whether or not to the applicant's knowledge-
(a) false information, representations or documents have been submitted in relation to the application (including false information submitted to any person to obtain a document used in support of the application); or
(b) there has been a failure to disclose material facts in relation to the application.
S-EC.2.3. One or more relevant NHS body has notified the Secretary of State that the applicant has failed to pay charges in accordance with the relevant NHS regulations on charges to overseas visitors and the outstanding charges have a total value of at least £1000.
S-EC.2.4. A maintenance and accommodation undertaking has been requested or required under paragraph 35 of these Rules or otherwise and has not been provided.
S-EC.2.5. The exclusion of the applicant from the UK is conducive to the public good because:
(a) within the 12 months prior to the date on which the application is decided, the person has been convicted of or admitted an offence for which they received a non-custodial sentence or other out of court disposal that is recorded on their criminal record; or
(b) in the view of the Secretary of State: (i) the person's offending has caused serious harm; or
(ii) the person is a persistent offender who shows a particular disregard for the law.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...41106_immigration_rules_appendix_fm_final.pdf


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

I guess there referring to 1.6 c failing to provide info (in this case provided but not in suitable format) non of the others apply


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Sorry 1.6 b


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

Harsh and a bit unfortunate. I don't know if it's worth, or even possible, to try and get the administrative review or to just reapply.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

I don't think I can get a review as she applied from outside UK, I think it's poor they couldn't even write any explanation. 

No one's fault but our own, we had already been turned down for a visitors visa on the different grounds (they didnt believe the relationship was genuine) and had no negative ffeedback on similarly submitted documentation.
This led us to the false belief that the documents were acceptable.


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

For the review, I don't think it's relevant which country she applied from. But I don't really know how it works from my own experience as neither me nor anyone I know personally has gone through it. But I've read about it on this forum, hopefully someone with personal experience or one of the moderators can offer advice.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Visitor and spouse visa have different criteria, require different supporting documents and a visitor visa doesn't lead to settlement. Why would feedback or lack of from one effect what you provide for the other? 

I dont think you would win a review, they want to be sure you meet the requirements. They cant do that by reviewing incomplete supporting evidence. New evidence cant now be submitted.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Hi shel. Of course your correct but I wasn't referring to the criteria but the format of documentarion that is common to both , specifically wage slips and bank statements. 
I think I am allowed to submit originals in place of copies and inadequate info, but I can't see I'm able to even request a review under the processes outlined, or am I missing something?


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

You can only resubmit information that was available at the time of application. Anything new can not be added. 

If you appeal a review is carried out first, its one process. Problem is if they decide to persue the rejection you could be waiting a very long time for appeal hearing.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Thanks shel, that's interesting about the review, I'm not sure I need any new info just differently formatted.
It's really difficult to tell though because the ECO gave me zero specific feedback.
do you know if that's usual?


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Do you have experience of the appeal?


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

I wouldn't recommend going for the full appeal as it would take forever, it's expensive and you may not win it anyway. I don't know if you can just ask for the review and submit the original documents and how you'd go about it, but if that fails I'd say just get over the money wasted and reapply again. Bear in mind that you'll have to do every single thing by the book as your partner now has two refusals so they'll probably comb through the renewed application... and you'll have to accept the responsibility for failing to supply all the necessary documents in your letter to them.

From what I've personally seen on the forum, refusals always had more information than what you were supplied with so it's a bit tricky that you have to guess if it was the paperwork that was the issue or if there was something genuinely wrong with the financial aspect of the application.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Thanks ashkevron, do you mean the paper appeal as opposed to in person tribunal?


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Either can take a year or more to be heard.


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

As I said, I don't know how it works, and it would be interesting to find out. I was thinking that it may be possible to ask only for administrative review which from what I have read and understood don't take a long time, and if that fails, to withdraw the appeal and apply again. Is this not possible? 
Because if the OP has the original documents, it's a bit sad they can't be just added to the rejected application and the application then reviewed, rather than go through the whole procedure again.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Thanks shel
I guess I could withdraw if I don't satisfy the review. But the problem is, I don't really know what I'm specifically appealing against


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## cheri coco (Dec 20, 2014)

I think you have just been unlucky not getting very good feedback, but it's hard for us as normal people who know that our information is correct to realize that documents can be falsified and that's what they are trying to guard against. There is no way that they will accept a printout of a bank statement, it has to be the pretty coloured one that arrives in the mail! (Speaking from bitter experience!)It's all part of the learning curve...which is why some of us are here, hopefully to learn from other people's mistakes and not have to make them ourselves. But it can be pretty devastating when you think you have done everything by the book, and just one thing lets you down...you feel like you have let down your other half and the world is going to end. But don't feel bad, you just need to try to get into the mindset of the people who make the decisions, basically, in a court of law you are innocent unless proved guilty...where a visa is concerned you are guilty unless proved innocent!!! It's a hard concept to grasp if you are a normal and law abiding citizen who just happens to be married to someone who is not English. But one day this will all be behind you, just don't give up. One day you will be giving advice to other people.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Cheri coco
Thankyou for your beautiful sentiment, you know exactly how I'm feeling.


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## cheri coco (Dec 20, 2014)

Hi again jambobble...
It's my personal opinion that there is no point in making an appeal, because the fault is your's and not their's, harsh as this may seem. Until you are together again your life will just be in limbo, and do you really want to wait another year?
Try to look on the bright side of things, I know that the cost of a visa is horrendous, but you can look at it as a trial run, like a mock exam. Next time you need to get 100%! You already know that all of the rest of your application was acceptable, even your income. This is really good news! The only thing that was wrong was the presentation of your financial data. This is something that can easily be remedied. You have written that your bank statement was electronic, your pay slips were copies and there was no P60. You need to gather together all of the correct documentation and reapply, and write in your letter that the fault was your's and this is the reason for needing to reapply. Grovel if you feel able to, but the important thing is to present the information in black and white, so even if they don't check why the previous application was rejected, they will know. Read through the relevant guidance notes again and get someone who is not emotionally involved to check them with you, because two heads are better than one. Good luck!


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## cheri coco (Dec 20, 2014)

Oh, and you need to get some of the experienced people on the site to check through your list of what you are sending before you do it, not afterwards!


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Thankyou so much everyone for your thoughts, time and advice.
Took some légal advice too and thinking a bit clearer now.
once again, very grateful to each and everyone. Merry Xmas
jam


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

Let us know how it goes, it may help people in the similar situation in the future.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Yes i promise i will.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Ok so, im pretty certain we Will be nervously reapplying soon with or without légal advice. 
Im thinking of sharing a blow by blow account of this for my own benefit and for those who may follow. 
Have a few questions floating in my head that some one somewhere might know thé answers to.
firstly légal advice, and use as a proxy or advocate, is it possible? Clearly it Will be expensive and no way can i accord it but similarly cant accord to fail this visa attempt either.
Secondly does she need to resubmit a TB certificate, do they last for set time périod?
Thirdly cost of application, m'y wife spoliés on line and i paid online for her. I was charged $1515 and around £965 came from my account, when i queried it with the (subcontracted) payment service, they blamed m'y bank, when i checked with the bank, they Saïd it was thé payment service, this went on until i gavé up dazed and confused.
my wife is in Ethiopia, thé payment processed in Nairobi and thé visa processed in Pretoria SA.
really just want to know If theres a cheaper (ie actual stated cost, way to apply).
Jambobble


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Sorry for typo s, new phone but think all is clear


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Paying for the visa from outsider of the UK


Hi all, wonder if anyone can shed any light on this.
Last time i applied and paid for the visa it was online and i was charged £965. 
So I checked and there is the option to pay in local currency. Great i thought, at least this time HM Govt wont be able rob me of a 10% fee. 
Wrong, they set their own conversión rate and this time the fee works out at around £990. 
Any thoughts on this anyone please? Has anyone else experienced similar?


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

They do use a specific conversion rate and there is nothing you can do about it. If your bank charges you to pay in another currency thats not ukvi fault.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Agreed, my Bank charged me $10 which seemed reasonable, the other £75, seems to be a HM Govt charge for conversión of Sterling into dollars.
As you say i really have no choice, the real fee seems actually to be around £1000 in either scenario.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Just a thought, does anyone know if i can apply on behalf of my spouse from inside the UK and pay a fee here in sterling. 
Might make the process a whole load easier too


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You can use your UK card to pay, but payment will be made in whatever currency the application is to be paid in, which varies from country to country.


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## Laka (Aug 23, 2014)

I paid within the uk for my spouse's visa last week and also got charged £965. Couldn't believe they were going to charge more on top of the quoted fee, but at that stage I just wanted to send it off and begin the wait!


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Thanks Joppa, I guess they will just use their own conversation rate on the card transaction too, so I cant see any way around this currency charge.
And Laka very best wishes to you both.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

I've also spoken to 2 sets of solicitors now and they seem to be basically charging for a document checking service.
They don't appear to have any more chance of dialogue or communication with an ECO compared to an individual applicant?


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

No, immigration advisors do not have any more authority with the ECO than you do. Their record on the forums is very spotty; some are good, some give just plain old wrong advice. You are better off understanding the requirements on your own and submitting the documents that prove your individual case.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Thanks Amy


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

I am currently living in a rental property that my landlord prefers me to pay cash for.
I have all my utility bills and tenancy agreement for this address but no transaction showing in my bank account.

When...my wife arrives we will move into a house I own and which I have mortgage and land registry documents for, does anyone think the existing address will be a problem?


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## Zara2013 (Jul 18, 2013)

So, why are not living in your own property now? Strange.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

I worked at a different office for a while and let the house out. I've given my tenant notice to quit and plan to transfer back to my original base.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You will be fine. Just attach a note explaining your current housing situation.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Thanks Joppa
I will attach all relevant bills for the current rental address and verification of my mortgaged property,


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Got some clarification over the TB certification today, if it's still in date when the application is submitted it remains valid throughout the application processes


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my wife's spousal visa was rejected on the basis of .....'financial requirements' and no further information.
I don't want to assume that they were happy about evidence of the relationship so throwing a few questions out there.
Firstly phone records, I produced print outside of our phone records but not verified or authenticated by any phone company. Do you think these would have been necessary and valid.
And also emails and text records likewise?
We also submitted pictures of our wedding, marraige certification and copy of the wedding invite.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

No, you do not need to have phone records, texts or emails authenticated.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Thankyou Nyclon,
that makes things simpler.
Hope you don't mind me asking but do you know that from personal experience or is it written in any guidance notes?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

No, it's not in the guidance notes. There are hundreds of successful applicants on here none of whom had their communications records authenticated.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Ok thanks


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Hi guys, as I understand it, an application for a visitors visa is under a points based system but a spousal visa is not?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

No. Visit visa is just visit visa not PBS, and spouse visa is settlement visa.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Sorry perhaps I didn't express that very clearly, on the settlement visa do they total up points based on all documents and evidence supplied or must you satisfy every part of the criteria in full?


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

There are different types of settlement visas. For spouse settlement visas, there are no points, you have to satisfy every part of the criteria in full.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Thank you both, 
I am getting near to resubmission now perhaps in a week or so and I know each case will be different but........
it will be useful for me to write a list of every item for submission and for any experienced heads to comment.
will also be useful for those that will follow with the usual caveats applying?


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Hi, can anyone confirm whether I need to submit my actual passport with my spouses visa application or whether a copy will suffice. 
Would seem crazy to have to submit the original passport but.....


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

jambobble said:


> Hi, can anyone confirm whether I need to submit my actual passport with my spouses visa application or whether a copy will suffice.
> Would seem crazy to have to submit the original passport but.....


You have to submit your original passport. 

Regarding the complete list of documents, for anyone to tell you exactly what you need to submit, they would need to know your exact situation in detail. Which may be a bit too intrusive. You can just look through the forum and find information relevant to your case.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Thank ashkevron
Yes I can see it would be intrusive but I think in this case the benefits outweigh any discomfort I might have. 
I really appreciate your thoughts, and I can't imagine what will happen if we fail again, the prospect is just awful to contemplate.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Hi, my wife read on another forum that I am required to submit my birth certificate and proof of no criminal record along with her spousal visa application.
lve never read or heard anything about submitting these items? 
Also I would very much like to visit her but will be submitting my passport, if I accompany all of my original documents (including passport) with a photocopy will they return all originals to her quite promptly?


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

jambobble said:


> Hi, my wife read on another forum that I am required to submit my birth certificate and proof of no criminal record along with her spousal visa application.
> lve never read or heard anything about submitting these items?
> Also I would very much like to visit her but will be submitting my passport, if I accompany all of my original documents (including passport) with a photocopy will they return all originals to her quite promptly?


Who on earth is applying for which visa here?

I will assume that you are British and your wife is not and she is applying for some unspecified UK visa. You are required to submit a photocopy of your passport, no need for the birth certificate and proof of no criminal record. You only submit the birth certificate if you don't own a passport.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

You don't need to submit your birth certificate or proof of no criminal record. 

Your passport and all original supporting documents will be returned to you if you provide copies but not until your application has been decided.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Hi, 
Yes ashkevron you assume correctly I am British living in the UK and my wife is Ethiopian living in Ethiopia.
She is applying for settlement, spousal visa.
Not sure if I have misunderstood but you said in an earlier reply I must submit my passport with the application, on this recent reply you mention I am required to supply a photocopy? 
Sorry to be a pain but can you please clarify.
The birth cert and criminal record check are as I thought but thanks guys for confirming that.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You only need to supply a plain photocopy of your passport's bio page with photo and signature. UKVI can verify it through passport database.


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## ashkevron (May 1, 2012)

Correct, you don't have to submit your passport, just a copy of it. Only your wife needs to submit her passport. You said things like


> I am getting near to resubmission now


 and


> useful for me to write a list of every item for submission


 so I incorrectly assumed it was you applying for the visa, not your wife.


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## jambobble (Dec 21, 2014)

Hi we've now recieved an email from the visa processing team with the heading Your UK Visa Application has now been resolved followed by a ref number
I guess this is a generic email with no real indicator of that outcome?
any thoughts anyone?


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## salix (Apr 27, 2014)

You'll have to wait until you get it back, there are no secret messages.


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