# keeping my car



## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

So many questions -

I've read a lot about importing cars, but I'm still a bit confused as to how I want to proceed. My car is a 1995 corvette, low mileage, and I'm the original owner, so I'd hate to part with it, even though it's not that practical in any way. I know the sea air in Cancun wouldn't be good for it, but the alternative is to not have it at all (sell it).
It's a north america VIN, so I believe I can import it.

I'm in Seattle, WA, and will sell my house and give up my mailing address here. I have a mail forwarding service set up in Texas that counts as a street address. I'll be moving to Cancun probably in August.

If I keep the car, I will drive it to Laredo and then to Cancun. I guess the way it would work is I would be entering with a Canje for RT visa, and I'd have to get a TIP at the border. 

If I want to keep the car in mexico under the TIP beyond october, what do I do about the tabs expiring on my WA tags? I don't think I'll be able to renew them in WA because I won't live there anymore or have a WA mailing address. (only servicemen can renew tabs from out of state I think). Do I just drive with expired US tags?

I could layover in Texas on the way and try to get Texas plates for the car, would that make things any easier?

Would anyone recommend instead trying to permanently import the car at this time? That would, I guess, let me get mexican plates and avoid the whole tab-expiry issue. Or should I wait on that until my 4 years on RT are almost up?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

You could do that, and even register the car in South Dakota by phone and mail, but it is only a temporary fix. After 4 years as a Residente Temporal visa holder, you will have to convert to Residente Permanente, which prohibits having a foreign plated car. Permanent importation of your car is unlikely to be possible, as only 8-9 year old NAFTA vehicles qualify, after being exported from the USA by a customs broker. Parts for your car? Sorry! 
It is probably time to find her a new home and buy another car in Mexico, in your state of residence, and enjoy the freedom from permits, fees, deposits, registration/insurance hassles, etc. Times have changed, and so have the rules since about 2012.
You also mentioned flying out & back into Mexico more often than every 180 days. If that indicates that you might stay on tourist permits, you should be aware that you cannot leave your car behind in Mexico if you leave on a tourist permit. It must leave with you.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

eastwind, have you ever heard the word TOPE ? 
Do you know the damage they do to low slung automobiles ?
Do you know why you do not see many sport cars in Mexico ? 
The ground clearance of a `65 Vette is 4.2 inches ( convertible 3.6 "), many topes are higher. I have seen sport cars with ruined front spoilers and crunched exhaust pipes. You may end up having to drive sideways over some.
Also it will attract every thief in town...


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

No, I don't speak spanish yet. Google just translates that as Stop. So, what, a speed bump? 

An attorney I am working with who specializes in setting up wills for expats was convinced I should keep it, that it would help me meet people and set me apart from the tourist hordes and I'd have a ball tooling around the Yucatan. I'd heard the roads were generally not that great, so that surprised me. I'd started out telling her I was going to sell it and she talked me out of it, but it's seeming like more and more of a hassle. 

I'll be sad to let it go, but it's always been a bit of a complication in my life. Less than 49k miles on it in 21 years, and only 3 scratches.

Btw, by the time my RT runs out and I have to convert to permanent resident, it would be 25 years old, doesn't that mean it would qualify for permanent importing as a "classic car"? 

But I'm also nervous about driving from Laredo to Cancun alone in it. And I'm also worried about it getting banged up if I try to drive it when going shopping. And it's hell to try to parallel park it. So all around, certainly the practical thing to do is sell it, but then it's never been about practicality from day 1.

It does have some anti-theft secrets, but whether the local thieves would be flummoxed is another question. And they might do a lot of damage trying. But really, cars that old aren't worth stealing for parts, a late model lexus would be much more attractive to the pro thieves. Joy riders is a different story.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

eastwind said:


> Btw, by the time my RT runs out and I have to convert to permanent resident, it would be 25 years old, doesn't that mean it would qualify for permanent importing as a "classic car"?
> 
> .


Vehículos usados considerados como clásicos

Google Translation:

"Used vehicles regarded as classics
... Paragraphs 1 and 5 of the said Rules, imports of vehicles whose serial number or model year has a length equal to or greater than 30 prior to the current year, and provided they have a gross vehicle weight exceeding 8,864 kilograms."


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

AlanMexicali said:


> Vehículos usados considerados como clásicos
> 
> Google Translation:
> 
> ...


I don't know how google got "exceeding" out of that. It says a weight of less than or equal to 8864 kg.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

If I were you, I would keep the Corvette. But I have always liked classic vehicles. I sold a BMW Model 2002 when I came to Mexico. It was built in 1970, I bought it in 1978. I had it for about 30 years. It sold for $4000 new. I paid $4000 for it in 1978. I sold it used in 2007 for $4000. I would have kept it, but I was in the Peace Corps then and they didn't allow people to bring cars. I couldn't see storing it. I almost never drove it. I rode motorcycles instead, but I was attached to it. Keep the Vette.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

You should Google search instead of Google translate, here is the type of information when you Google " Mexican Tope:
"http://gomexico.about.com/od/transportationinmexico/g/tope.htm


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

This is easier:
What is a Tope? Driving in Mexico

An attorney I am working with who specializes in setting up wills for expats was convinced I should keep it, that it would help me meet people and set me apart from the tourist hordes and I'd have a ball tooling around the Yucatan."

Sometimes in a poorer country one might want to blend in instead of sticking out,IMHO


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

chicois8 said:


> This is easier:
> What is a Tope? Driving in Mexico
> 
> 
> ...


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

He might have been saying having a car rather than not ...... any car. Seems like a Vet would be a bit of a target


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Short and sweet:
Never, ever, trust an attorney. He didn‘t know what he was talking about....
BMWs and Vwttes get hung up and damaged on topes. Owners get rid of them quickly...back to USA.
Sell your car. It may not be stolen; just stripped clean. Insurance does not cover that.


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## ExpatEmigre (Nov 22, 2015)

RVGRINGO said:


> Short and sweet:
> Never, ever, trust an attorney.


Well, to be fair, whether one should trust an attorney depends on the subject matter being discussed, no? I wouldn't recommend anyone trust me if I'm talking about car repair, for example, but it would be unfair to mistrust what I have to say on, say, US federal appellate procedure or forming a Cayman Islands company.


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## michmex (Jul 15, 2012)

chicois8 said:


> eastwind, have you ever heard the word TOPE ?
> Do you know the damage they do to low slung automobiles ?
> Do you know why you do not see many sport cars in Mexico ?
> The ground clearance of a `65 Vette is 4.2 inches ( convertible 3.6 "), many topes are higher. I have seen sport cars with ruined front spoilers and crunched exhaust pipes. You may end up having to drive sideways over some.
> Also it will attract every thief in town...



Not to mention the numerous pot holes, narrow streets and parking spaces barely adequate for a compact car.

Help to meet people? Like Police (transitos) and crooks!


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## RickS (Aug 6, 2009)

I am so so so tempted to help you get your Vet to Cancun but I'm sure that that is just my heart talking!!! As others have shared, there are just too many potential gotcha's for you to realistically attempt to do so. 

It sounds like you might be 'starting a new life'. My recommendation is to give up your Corvette and start a new car life also. Buy something sporty (I know, NOTHING will compare!) in Mexico and never look back. 

If you want to discuss this more, email me at [cut - send a Private Message]

Good luck


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Here‘s an idea:

Agencia Ferrari-Maserati
Blvrd Puerta de Hierro 5872
+52 55 5662 7619


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Ringo, that reminds me of one of my drives around Mexico, I was driving on the highway between Leon and San Miguel when in the other side of the highway came 7 Ferraris in a row in the fast lane all with different colors.............


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

How else would a large family avoid confusion?


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

chicois8 said:


> This is easier:
> What is a Tope? Driving in Mexico
> 
> An attorney I am working with who specializes in setting up wills for expats was convinced I should keep it, that it would help me meet people and set me apart from the tourist hordes and I'd have a ball tooling around the Yucatan."
> ...


Has this attorney lived in Mexico?

Believe me, you don't want to rely on a cool car in order to meet people. They'll be the people you probably DON'T want to meet.

TOPEs: AKA "sleeping policemen": LARGE MOUNDS or small ones: meant to slow dow the macho drivers who secretly long for a little memorial by the side of the rode with plastic flowers in it.

I drive a Mexican plated Honda FIT: perfect for narrow streets and difficult parking (the normal Mexican town). If I slow WAY down approaching the topes I can avoid bottoming out on them. I used to own a cute red low slung sports car. Fun and attention getting, but finally decided "It's just a car" and quit providing the means by which my mechanic could afford trips to Europe.
Welcome to Mexico!
lane:


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## Howler (Apr 22, 2013)

chicois8 said:


> eastwind, have you ever heard the word TOPE ?
> Do you know the damage they do to low slung automobiles ?
> Do you know why you do not see many sport cars in Mexico ?
> The ground clearance of a `65 Vette is 4.2 inches ( convertible 3.6 "), many topes are higher. I have seen sport cars with ruined front spoilers and crunched exhaust pipes. You may end up having to drive sideways over some.
> Also it will attract every thief in town...


If the ground clearance is not a problem... which it IS - then dealing with other drivers at each tope can complicate things. It was at a tope we got rear-ended last year!


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## Balboa (Nov 16, 2010)

chicois8 said:


> eastwind, have you ever heard the word TOPE ?
> Do you know the damage they do to low slung automobiles ?
> Do you know why you do not see many sport cars in Mexico ?
> The ground clearance of a `65 Vette is 4.2 inches ( convertible 3.6 "), many topes are higher. I have seen sport cars with ruined front spoilers and crunched exhaust pipes. You may end up having to drive sideways over some.
> Also it will attract every thief in town...


I was in a pueblo last week in Jalisco and saw a newer Corvette driving around down... I also heard it as it scraped over a _tope _(speed bump).


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I have just come back from an apartment-hunting trip to cancun. I give up on the corvette, possibly on mexico as well. I have applied for a lease on a place, but the paperwork is pending and as I'm back home I suspect the whole thing may fall through.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

eastwind writes " I give up on the corvette, possibly on mexico as well."

I understand the corvette part but would you elaborate on the second part of your sentence?
What were your impressions of Cancun?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

chicois8 said:


> eastwind writes " I give up on the corvette, possibly on mexico as well."
> 
> I understand the corvette part but would you elaborate on the second part of your sentence?
> What were your impressions of Cancun?


Yes, inquiring minds are curious.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

eastwind said:


> I have just come back from an apartment-hunting trip to cancun. I give up on the corvette, possibly on mexico as well. I have applied for a lease on a place, but the paperwork is pending and as I'm back home I suspect the whole thing may fall through.


If Cancún doesn't work out, you might consider other locations in this large and varied country.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I spent 12 days in Cancun trying to find a 1BR apartment to rent somewhere on the 19 km beach. I eventually connected with a real estate agent who had two apartments, one of which was 2 BR and was more than I wanted to pay and another that was not on the beach but the lagoon, which defeated the whole point. Then he made a call to a second person who had another unit that seemed at first like a really great deal. Because at first I understood it to include air con, but that may have been incorrect and was only for the first (too expensive apt). Now I think it doesn't include utilities. It's also 2BR instead of 1. It's got a very large living room and a great view. It's 3rd floor, but really only one level up from the patio level with the pool, which is just a half-flight of stairs up from the beach. It's in a "resort" complex, with rules requiring >= 3 month rentals, and is 35k pesos/month. I know that's very expensive by mexican standards, but when I compare to what I'm paying in the US for my house property taxes and the other costs of owning a house (including the relative cost of having money invested in it instead of the stock market where I can get a better return) it's not that different. I wanted to move to Mexico for cheaper health care and food, and if I get that I don't need to get cheaper rent to make my budget work. 

At first they wanted 2 months security deposit IN CASH (they claimed if I paid otherwise they'd have trouble with the mexican government treating the payment as income - apparently this is the worry of the apartment manager who was to hold the deposit). They also wanted 1500 pesos for a research firm that would tell the owner I wasn't a convict and would pay the rent, and 5000 pesos to pay their lawyer to draw up the lease agreement.


I'd known ahead of the trip that cash might be required for this, and tried to prepare. I had about $2500 in old traveller's checks I'd had for 10 years, and tried to get more - but my bank no longer sells them, and other banks don't sell them, and one bank said they sell them but only "once every 5 years", and that teller had never sold any and didn't know how. So I took only what I already had. I tried to get my ATM limit increased from $500/day upward, but at my bank the guy said "email me and I'll do it once for the day for you". So I left with that plan.

I spent one day trying to find a way to cash those traveller's checks and couldn't. No bank will take them anymore, they're useless now. A dead technology. I brought them home with me and monday will deposit the money into my bank. Wasted 10 years interest on $2500 holding them - probably about $25 at today's checking account interest rates.

I spent another day trying to get cash with my raised ATM card limit. One bank, Banamex I think, had their ATM refuse to give me more than it wanted to, which was around 9k pesos (I never found out exactly, because having refused to give me anything, it then said I'd exceeded whatever amount they allowed as the maximum per day and gave me nothing at all). I never found any bank that would give more than 9k/day, and even with my temporarily raised limit only raised 30k pesos of the 76,500 pesos I "needed".

I tried to line up a lawyer in cancun to review the lease once I had it, and got some advice from them regarding whether the deposit-in-cash was typical or not. I'd worried about it being a scam, and they agreed. The real estate agent drives a nice car and speaks excellent English and is visible on the web, so seems legit. The apartment manager I was more worried about, she doesn't speak English at all. 

So I rebelled, and said in no way I was paying the deposit in cash, that it was impossible for me to get that much cash. The agent, got the manager to agree that I would wire the money directly to the apartment owners when I got back to the US. I still had to pay $6500 pesos for the application fee. I did that Friday a week ago, under advice of the lawyer (they said "for that much, I'd pay it and see what they say on the lease"). At that point it was the only option I had, and I'd invested in the airfare and hotel for 12 days so $6500 pesos wasn't a big risk.

Since then I've been waiting and waiting. I had to fly back home. I'm told the background check passed and that we're waiting on the contract to be written. I wonder at this point if I'll ever see it or if they will keep my $6500 pesos and settle for that as their scam takings. Not the 76.5k they wanted, but enough to cover their costs, which would have to have included payoffs to several other bit-role actors (a guard at the resort and two people in the resort office). If they never come through, I'll write off mexico as a bad idea, and figure my total losses at about $1500 US for the wasted trip and scam.

I've also learned that I'm not likely to qualify for Mexican NISS health insurance because I have high blood pressure. It's controlled with medication, so I have some faint hope I might get approved, but that was a big part of the reason for Mexico in the first place. My early-retirement budget doesn't work very well if I have to spend 1k/month for "affordable care".

I'll probably move to Texas gulf coast instead, keep my corvette, and try to find a way to pay for the ACA insurance until I'm 65 - I'm 56 this month, so that's 9 years of exorbitant individual market health care that will really crimp my budget otherwise. I'll have to live in a much less nice place than I could afford in Mexico.

The cancun apartment would have been great, I only have 3 worries about it: would there be noisy parties just one floor down from my balcony and was it too close to sea level so that in case of a hurricane I'd get flooded. I think the apartment was at least 20 feet above water level, but it's hard to judge the rise of the beach. It was 1.5 flights up from the upper edge of the beach, plus the beach rise, so 20-30 feet above sea level. I think in a direct hit there'd be waves coming in over the balcony.

The third worry is that they intend to keep the security deposit regardless of whether I damage anything or not. That would raise the rent to 14 x 35k pesos for 12 months, and puts the cost up to around $2200 US/month for the 12 months, which is more than I wanted to pay. I was hoping for $1500-$2000 for a 1 BR. At 35k pesos for a big 2BR, that was a good deal, and not a bad deal even at $2200, just over budget. 

Maybe the lease agreement will arrive in my email on Monday.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

WOW, probably one of the best post trip reports I've ever read, glad I asked for it, funny thing is I paid about what 3 years of your rent would be for a house in a beach town on the Pacific side, have you considered buying a home or condo maybe around Playa del Carmen? Thanks again.........
By the way if your ATM will not allow a 9000 peso withdrawal do a 5000 and a second 4000 peso withdrawal...


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

Cancun is the problem. I rented a 3bdr 2 bath house with secure parking and front and back yards ...... a block from the beach for 4000 pesos. Jalisco Pacific coast - Melaque


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

In the cancun hotel zone, ATMs charge a fee of 96 pesos. In town they charge around 33. (You can take the bus in town and back for 10.5 pesos each way). 

Santandar was limiting withdrawals to 4000 pesos (for 33 pesos fee), Banamex, Bancomer and HSBC seemed to have a 9000 limit. 

I was trying not to do more transactions than necessary, which is how I got messed up.

If this falls through I may consider the west coast. The reason I picked Cancun is I have an 96 yo mother living in Washington DC that I need to be able to visit 4 times a year or so, and I wanted somewhere with direct flights to DC, because I get fed up with flying more every time I fly. I investigated some and couldn't find direct flights from any airports on the west coast of mexico to DC, it's always change-planes-in-mexico-city, or perhaps DFW. And a lot of the west coast is apparently gangland shootout territory now.

I'd hoped to spend a year in the cancun hotel zone on the water, and get the itch for sea-view-living out of my system, and then move somewhere more reasonable (in town), or buy a place down the coast once I had the knowledge and contacts to negotiate the real estate market without getting totally ripped off. But apparently the "Mayan Riviera" is expensive quite a ways along the coast in either direction.

Living for a year in a place where I can sit at my computer and look out the window and see the waves is a bucket-list item for me. I suspect after a year the allure will wear off, but don't know. I think I've inherited this itch, I recall my dad always talked about "having a place on the water", and for a while in the 70's we had a vacation cottage on the wide part of the potomac river. But he had to retire someplace near my Mom's friends. And my grandfather retired to florida - the only picture I have of him is on a dock holding up a fish. 

For the first year, two blocks away won't do. Maybe after a year that would be fine. When I don't have to fly to DC I'll be geographically unlimited, but that's hopefully still several years away as my Mom is in excellent health for 96, looking like she'll make it to 106.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Mexico has 4400 miles of Pacific coastline with many towns overlooking the ocean..When you say::
" And a lot of the west coast is apparently gangland shootout territory now." Would be interested in what part of the wast coast has had recent shootings? 

Do you know the Tijuana / Ensenada corridor has many communities with lots of housing / condos overlooking the Pacific...There is also 5 flights a day from San Diego to DC......Plus that area of Baja does not have the high temps and humidity of mainland Mexico...


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

eastwind said:


> In the cancun hotel zone, ATMs charge a fee of 96 pesos. In town they charge around 33. (You can take the bus in town and back for 10.5 pesos each way).
> 
> Santandar was limiting withdrawals to 4000 pesos (for 33 pesos fee), Banamex, Bancomer and HSBC seemed to have a 9000 limit.
> 
> ...


You seem very clear on what you need. That is a very good way to get what you want. I hope you find a way to make something work so you get your year on a beach.

Incidentally, maybe you need a new bank. I had to get together a relatively large chunk of pesos for a big expense a few months ago. I went to an ATM and took out $10,000 pesos every day for awhile. I had no problem. I get a competitive rate and I never see the ATM fee.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I wouldn't say I "need" any of it, but I'm clear on what I would want . It remains to be seen whether it's possible within even my large budget, and whether I'll like it as much as I think I will.

The drive to San Diego airport from mexico is an interesting idea, I hadn't thought of that. Google says it's 2 hours from Ensenada to the airport, that's doable assuming it doesn't take hours to get across the border, and better if closer to Tijuana. 

It's encouraging to think there are other options if this cancun deal falls through.

As for violence, I've only heard stories about Acapulco and that part of the coast. But I thought any area anywhere close to the border, like Tijuana-Ensenada is, was very dangerous.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

So I gave $6500 pesos to the apartment manager (1500 for background check and 5000 for lawyer to draw up lease) friday July 1, and the news from the real estate agent is I've passed the background check (I have no evidence they actually did one), and am waiting (and waiting) on the lawyers.

How long before I conclude that the whole thing was a scam and start doing my best to tarnish the online reputation of the real estate agent that set it up? I'd have thought he'd value his reputation at more than $300, split with the apartment manager. So far he seems to be content to string me along. If I keep bugging him, I expect some sort of soft termination, like, "the owner decided not to rent after all, sorry about your application fee, we already spent it on the contract the owner won't sign, so you can't have it back". The best scams are the ones where the mark isn't every quite sure he got scammed.

I'm now getting a voice recording (not voicemail) in Spanish when I try to call him, but he did answer an email today, so it's not 100% sure it's a scam yet. It could be the lawyers are just being very slow, and/or that they wanted to get the owner's signature on the lease before mine. What's a reasonable amount of time for a lawyer in Mexico to write up a lease agreement?

The hardest thing about moving to a foreign country is you start off with no network of trustworthy people, no idea of local norms, and there are many poor people ready and willing to take whatever they can from you.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

July 1 is all?
In Mexico, this is not an unusual sort of delay, but I know how frustrating this can get.

I hope you have receipts for everything at this point. Some real estate agents are honest and true. Some could give Blackbeard a run for his money. I've had one of each. Since you're a stranger in town, I'd suggest hanging out in a ****** gathering place and see if you can get the name of a decent local lawyer to be with you in your search for a rental, or in dealing with the one that's in the works.
Buen Suerte.


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## Anonimo (Apr 8, 2012)

> If they never come through, I'll write off mexico as a bad idea, and figure my total losses at about $1500 US for the wasted trip and scam.


Cancun is a Mexican city, but it is hardly representative nor typical of other Mexican cities.
Maybe you should pause, and rethink this whole quest.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I'm definitely reevaluating. Sadly, that's all I've been getting done.

I suspect that what is going on is the apt manager is using the time to try to find another renter, and hasn't even started the process with the lawyers yet. If she can find someone to pay the 2 months deposit in cash, she'll tell me "sorry" (and still probably keep the 6.5k pesos). If not, at the last minute she'll come back to me and try to rent to me. We had agreed on a lease starting Aug 5. Thursday I sent them a message saying I'd now prefer Sept 1 but haven't heard back. Unfortunately, that lets her continue her game another month, so it might not have been a wise move. Still, I can walk away from them if I want.

Part of what has been driving me is that my cobra health insurance from my last job before retirement is due to run out at the end of August. Then I have to go on obamacare. I don't know what that will cost, but I hear it's going to be around 1k/month. So I was trying to get moved before then. But with the delays, that's looking like its not happening and I'll have to go on it for a month at least. One question is in which state, my current address in WA or maybe I can get a place rented somewhere in Texas soon enough that I can skip having to join it in WA and then move it to TX.

I'm thinking now of renting in Galveston for a year, or perhaps making another trip to cancun and just rent something in town for a year while I learn the local real estate market and try to buy something down the coast away from town. I'm also looking at Tijuana beach, it's much more affordable than Cancun, but less safe and longer and more trouble to fly to DC, but less trouble to move there from Seattle.

I've spent the last two days surfing and contacting agents through trulia and zillow for Galveston, and browsing craig's list for Tijuana, but no solid leads yet, maybe on Monday.

Tijuana looks cheaper than cancun by half for ocean view places, but still there's the problem that most places aren't advertised and I don't speak spanish and don't know anyone local I can trust.

I'll probably let the web contacts percolate for a couple more days then book a flight somewhere (Houston to look in Galveston or San Diego to look in Tijuana) and try to look again for a place.

If anyone can recommend an English-speaking lawyer in Tijuana that is more into real estate than springing drunk/druggie tourists from the slammer I'd appreciate a reference.

Also the name/number of a known-reputable real estate agent in Tijuana that can help broker a rental would be much appreciated.

Tijuana would be much more affordable, I could get a really nice mid-high end place and pay for it with what I save on health insurance alone. I'm not so comfortable with the neighborhood as cancun though.

Spending a year in TX to establish domicile/residence there has tax advantages for me that don't apply to most people because I've been lucky. So unless someone can recommend an agent in Tijuana I'll probably load up a truck and head to galveston.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

eastwind said:


> I'm definitely reevaluating. Sadly, that's all I've been getting done.
> 
> I suspect that what is going on is the apt manager is using the time to try to find another renter, and hasn't even started the process with the lawyers yet. If she can find someone to pay the 2 months deposit in cash, she'll tell me "sorry" (and still probably keep the 6.5k pesos). If not, at the last minute she'll come back to me and try to rent to me. We had agreed on a lease starting Aug 5. Thursday I sent them a message saying I'd now prefer Sept 1 but haven't heard back. Unfortunately, that lets her continue her game another month, so it might not have been a wise move. Still, I can walk away from them if I want.
> 
> ...


If your goal is a year on the beach, with a major airport, it seems to me you would be better off in a small town somewhere along the coast near Puerto Vallarta or Manzanillo. There will be fewer scams, they are safe, you can drive/taxi/bus to an airport. The downside is it will take a connection to get to DC, but if you are only doing it occasionally, that is not the end of the world. I am thinking of Sayulita, Bucerias, Chacala (Puerto Vallarta) or Barra de Navidad, Melaque, La Manzanilla (Manzanillo).

You could probably do the same on Yucatan coast, Progresso or some place. I don't know it as well. I guess my main point is to get away from the big commercial tourist towns like Cancun/Tulum.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Incidentally, if your year on the beach includes going in the water, Tijuana/Ensenada/Rosarita is probably not what you have in mind. The water there is cold much of the year.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

eastwind. I see your impatience as an obstacle when dealing with Mexicans. Your assumptions also are not really valid and possibly it is because you have no experience here yet. You presume the real estate company and owner are up to no good because of the delays and not answering E- Mails etc. This is not always true. Not all realitors or owners are dishonest or string people along as plan B. They sometimes are very slow, lawyers drawing up a lease, and sometimes/usually don´t answer correspondence when they have no new news to report. This is very common here. You very well might have the rental as planned.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I am reminded of riding a horse in its first parade, when bands started playing and the crowds started cheering. Then, a firetruck sounded its siren and the horse tried to head in all directions at once, with no clear destination in mind......except OUT ! It makes for a rough ride.
Much more training and calm consideration is required. Mexico and Mexicans are not like Kansas or Kansans. Much is different and one must adapt. Tourist destinations can be rough on newbies who stay for more than a vacation.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I think the only reason I'm suspicious is that they asked for $3700 in cash for a security deposit (for which I would have gotten a hand-written receipt). And apparently it would have been the apartment manager holding the deposit rather than the owner. Otherwise it all looks completely above-board, just slow. 

What does it mean to me that they are using a lawyer and not a notary? As I understand it, the notary is usually used, and makes sure that the parties are who they say they are and the owner is the owner of the apartment and has the right to enter into the contract. Does a lawyer representing them allow me any protections against various scams at all?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

eastwind said:


> I think the only reason I'm suspicious is that they asked for $3700 in cash for a security deposit (for which I would have gotten a hand-written receipt). And apparently it would have been the apartment manager holding the deposit rather than the owner. Otherwise it all looks completely above-board, just slow.
> 
> What does it mean to me that they are using a lawyer and not a notary? As I understand it, the notary is usually used, and makes sure that the parties are who they say they are and the owner is the owner of the apartment and has the right to enter into the contract. Does a lawyer representing them allow me any protections against various scams at all?


What you are calling a "notary" is probably a "notario publico". Although it sounds similar to a US notary public, it is not the same at all. A notario publico is a lawyer who has been licensed by the local government to handle property transactions. They are generally senior lawyers. Generally, for sales, the notario publico is chosen and paid by the buyer. I haven't heard of them being involved in rental contracts, but who knows. You may have a regular lawyer handling the paperwork.

Regarding the receipt… It seems to be common in Mexico to not receive a receipt in case where one might expect based on North of the Border customs. Recently, I signed up for a year of cell phone service and paid for a year in advance (by doing that I got 12 months of service for the price of 7 months). I asked three times for a printed receipt specifying how much I paid and what the terms of the deal were. I never got it and finally gave up.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Thanks, good to understand more about the notario publico.

A hand-written receipt is better than none, but not much. I basically assumed that I'd never see that 6500 pesos again no matter what, and I accepted that. But I do hope it works out, I still think Yucatan coast is the best part of Mexico for me if I can find something. If I have to give up for this year and spend a year in Texas, that's worth it if I can eventually get my dream place.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Well, it looks like they scammed me. So now I'm planning to move to Texas instead for a year, to establish residency there, then try again next year. 

I've given up the idea of taking my corvette to mexico, but might want to sell the corvette and buy something else in Texas. 

So I have a question about TIPs. I've read that if you enter on an FMM visa with a car and get a TIP for the car, you may not fly back to the US and leave the car behind even temporarily (or risk getting a $400 fine).

And I know that you can't get a TIP once you convert from RT to permanent resident. But what about if you are living in mexico on an RT visa and import a US car on a TIP? Does that visa allow you to fly back to the US for a visit while leaving your car behind?

And what about the case if you enter mexico on an FMM/canje visa by car, get a TIP, change the visa to RT and transfer the TIP to the RT visa?

I've been assuming that TIP meant "temporary", and you can't leave the car behind, period, and so the same restrictions and fines apply regardless of visa type, but wanted to know for sure.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

If you enter Mexico as a tourist and bring your car on an Importada Temporal (TIP), you must take the car out whenever you leave.
Holding a Residente Temporal visa does allow you to come and go with or without your car.
If you enter on a canje you will have to formally notify Aduana and request estension of your TIP to match each and every change in your status; canje to RT and at every renewal. It must be done promptly, within 15 days, or the car deposit will be forfeit.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

A little thread necropsy for an update.

I left it too long to try to sell my corvette, and now I don't have time to get any kind of a decent price. It should be worth 7k even selling it at a dealer and all I can get is 2k from an online buy-sight-unseen place.

So it looks like I'm going to have to fly to mexico, canje the visa, and when that's done come back for my car and drive it to texas and store it there, or maybe keep going and try to make it alive to cancun with it.

Do the toll roads/highways have speed bumps or is that just a local road thing? The place I'm renting in Cancun has covered parking included, so I could store the car there for a year on a TIP even if I didn't use it, and it would be cheaper than paying for monthly storage in Texas, even including the cost of driving it to Cancun & back to Texas after a year.


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## DiverSailor123 (Sep 17, 2016)

Wellllllll though I have come into this discussion rather late, my opinion is keep the Vette if you like it.. There are lots of Vettes in Mexico and I have seen a number of them in Cancun and there are no less than several zooming around Playa and 3 friends have them on Cozumel. I mean for The Love .. Some Mexican just totaled a 1.4 Million US Dollar Koenenburger (SP) or what ever it was and was that ALL Over the Internet.. I have seen just about any car you can think of on the Auto Pista in and out of Merida.. Mexicans have money lots of money maybe not all Mexicans but many... Same Goes for Harleys .. Used to be a big deal now only if you live in the Mexican equivalent to THE STICKS...


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

DiverSailor123 said:


> Wellllllll though I have come into this discussion rather late, my opinion is keep the Vette if you like it.. There are lots of Vettes in Mexico and I have seen a number of them in Cancun and there are no less than several zooming around Playa and 3 friends have them on Cozumel. I mean for The Love .. Some Mexican just totaled a 1.4 Million US Dollar Koenenburger (SP) or what ever it was and was that ALL Over the Internet.. I have seen just about any car you can think of on the Auto Pista in and out of Merida.. Mexicans have money lots of money maybe not all Mexicans but many... Same Goes for Harleys .. Used to be a big deal now only if you live in the Mexican equivalent to THE STICKS...



You are correct, there are many people in Mexico that can afford Vettes and other expensive vehicles, they probably also own casinos, casas de cambios, import/ export companies, pharmaceutical companies, night clubs and bars...Get my drift?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

eastwind said:


> A little thread necropsy for an update.
> 
> I left it too long to try to sell my corvette, and now I don't have time to get any kind of a decent price. It should be worth 7k even selling it at a dealer and all I can get is 2k from an online buy-sight-unseen place.
> 
> ...


Sometimes life makes decisions for you. The cuotas do not have topes, but you will still run into them occasionally since you cannot spend all of your time on the cuotas. Just be careful. Watch the cars in front of you, so you won't hit an unmarked one too fast. They are common. I think the Corvette will be okay for most of them.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Well in the end I flew back to Seattle to get my car, drove it during the december snowstorm to Texas (quite an adventure) and changed my driver's license to Texas and re-titled the car in Texas in preparation for driving to Cancun. Then I hit roadblocks: all I had was a temporary title and temporary driver's license. I ended up deciding to park it at the airport and fly back to cancun, planning on flying back and getting good paperwork and driving to cancun.

During the month I was waiting on the paperwork, I finally really made up my mind. The final nail in the coffin was I concluded I just simply didn't want to drive the corvette here, and I didn't want to be driving anything at all in Mexico. Not just the corvette, but anything at all. The reason is the cops flash their lights all the time and use loudspeakers to pull people over, or else pull along side on their motorcycles and wave at you. I don't speak Spanish, and wouldn't understand their instructions. That seems very dangerous, even knowing that cops here aren't trigger happy like those in the US. 

So last week I flew back to Texas and sold it. I got $5000 for it, which is barely ok. It had a blue-book of 7k, had low mileage, and they'll shine it up and put it out front on some used car lot with a $13k price tag and use it to lure in customers to buy their other cars until somebody pays too much for it. But so be it, I didn't have the ability to market it properly.

My indecision was pretty expensive altogether, including the cost of driving to texas (gas and multiple nights in motels), re-titling, a month of airport parking ($250) and an extra round trip cancun to houston. It was hard to make the decision because it feels like I've sold away the last vestige of my youth, but sometimes you have to let go. 

Now I'm renting, not owning a house, and I'm car-less. It's a load of worry off my mind. I'll spend US$30 a month on bus fare and maybe that much again on the occasional taxi, and it will be a far cry from what owning a car would cost. I understand well the economic advantage of owning a home in the US vs renting, but there are additional factors and risks that apply to owning in Mexico, and I think I'm not going to be in a hurry to get back into owning even a condo.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

eastwind said:


> Well in the end I flew back to Seattle to get my car, drove it during the december snowstorm to Texas (quite an adventure) and changed my driver's license to Texas and re-titled the car in Texas in preparation for driving to Cancun. Then I hit roadblocks: all I had was a temporary title and temporary driver's license. I ended up deciding to park it at the airport and fly back to cancun, planning on flying back and getting good paperwork and driving to cancun.
> 
> During the month I was waiting on the paperwork, I finally really made up my mind. The final nail in the coffin was I concluded I just simply didn't want to drive the corvette here, and I didn't want to be driving anything at all in Mexico. Not just the corvette, but anything at all. The reason is the cops flash their lights all the time and use loudspeakers to pull people over, or else pull along side on their motorcycles and wave at you. I don't speak Spanish, and wouldn't understand their instructions. That seems very dangerous, even knowing that cops here aren't trigger happy like those in the US.
> 
> ...


When I moved to Mexico, I also parted with some long time possessions that had sentimental value but were no longer useful, like a 1970 BMW 2002. I bought it in 1978 and sold it in 2007. During the 29 years that I had it I maintained, painted, replaced the engine once, etc, all with my own labor.

So I sympathize and understand what you went through in parting with the Corvette. Incidentally, I saw a bright red Corvette on the street today in Guadalajara. It looked pretty new, but I don't follow them closely anymore and can't say what year it was.


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

I did not read every post but you are not ready for Mexico. Are you aware that your vette would be subject to about 30% in taxes? I cannot think of a worse car in Mexico. The only thing you need for the car is a Steal me sign!! I would suggest that you travel the coast for a few months and check out other communities before making sudden changes.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Well both your points, your personal judgement about my readiness for mexico and about the car, are moot as the car is sold and I've been happily living in Mexico since September. It was an old thread I resuscitated to tell the end of the story now that it's all played out. If you weren't reading it before, no need to start now.

On your 30% number, please explain.


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## DiverSailor123 (Sep 17, 2016)

I have been wondering how it all turned out too.. Yes, its pretty hard to make relevant comments without reading the entire thread.. Aint that life on the internet though hahaahaha.. I am glad to see your content with your new lifestyle choice of , for now going car-less.  Life style changes and giving up possessions / toys is almost always difficult and it sure is for me.. The 30% was I presume, at shot in the dark concerning the cost to nationalize a 1995 car.. BTW it was a 1995 Corvette NOT a 1965 ... a 1965 Corvette with mileage that low and a total of 3 scratches would be worth a small fortune.. 4 months and no car? That's says a lot about your ability to cope with news situations.. 


eastwind said:


> Well both your points, your personal judgement about my readiness for mexico and about the car, are moot as the car is sold and I've been happily living in Mexico since September. It was an old thread I resuscitated to tell the end of the story now that it's all played out. If you weren't reading it before, no need to start now.
> 
> On your 30% number, please explain.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Thanks, yeah 1995, sorry if I missed a typo somewhere.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

DiverSailor123 said:


> … 4 months and no car? That's says a lot about your ability to cope with new situations..


I haven't routinely used a car for about 20-25 years, essentially since my kids left home. The past 10 years I have not had any car at all. The 10 years before that I had one that stayed in the garage all the time except for an occasional trip to Home Depot for some plywood or something similar. Its not that hard if you arrange your life properly and don't have to chauffeur kids around.


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## DiverSailor123 (Sep 17, 2016)

IIRC the 1965 and 1995 was a mix up by another poster... Glad To Hear all is going well... I really want to read about why your choice was Cancun.. have you a blog or should I PM my email address to you? Are you on face book ? Again maybe better If I PM you???


eastwind said:


> Thanks, yeah 1995, sorry if I missed a typo somewhere.


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

Import rules for cars change all the time. IIRC the IVA is 16% and there is a duty of about 15%. Thus 30%


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Poorer Country
Are you really that wealthy?


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

I would keep the car. It is not that old, and if you like it, just keep it.
In 8 more years you can apply for vintage or classic car plates.
There are no Lexus in Mexico, so no one would steal one, other than some parts.
There are many Corvettes in Mexico, yes, be careful with speed bumps, so what?


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Bobbyb said:


> Import rules for cars change all the time. IIRC the IVA is 16% and there is a duty of about 15%. Thus 30%


IVA is only on the 15% duty not on the whole value of the vehicle. Duty used to be 10% for ADUANA plus a small fee as I recall. Did they up it to 15%?


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Bienvenido a México

According to this link only Mexican Nationals or Mexican Nationals with foreign residency can import 8 or 9 year old or older vehicles.


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

There have been so many changes one cannot keep up with the car imports. I know that they are enforcing changes that really limit the ages of cars. I had read it was 30%. Alan: Why would the IVA not be on the value of the whole vehicle? The vehicle is being imported thus IVA is due. I am almost positive it is on the value of the car. Many people say it is not worth importing anymore.


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## Bobbyb (Mar 9, 2014)

I know I read something current on auto importations but I cannot find it!! Classic autos have to be 29 years old. By law you must cancel the title with US Border personal. The IVA is 15% on the value of the vehicle ( they use some form of Blue Book) The duty is 10% of the value. Should be done by a broker and the cost is at least $700. Yuculandia is a good site for this type of info. Here is some info from a Mexican lawyer:

What vehicles can be imported:
~ Used NAFTA cars and non-dually pickups: VIN shows they were made or assembled in Mexico, the USA or Canada.
~ 8 to 9 year old cars.
~ Vehicles whose rights are restricted or prohibited from being driven in their home country are prohibited from importation. (? – Editor’s note: Waiting for clarification on this item)
~ Classic cars more than 29 years old.

Requirements & Notes:
~ Importation fee: Ten percent of the value of the vehicle, plus taxes due for entry into the country.
~ Cars can be imported by Mexicans living in Mexico and abroad.
~ Importers need official ID and CURP, car title in their name or signed-over to them, emissions certificate, nothing limiting their right to be driven in their home country

Procedures
1. Go to a customs agent with your ID, letter of appointment of customs broker, and vehicle title.
2. Verify that the customs agent:
~ ~ Obtains a certificate that the vehicle complies with physical / mechanical conditions and environmental protection (verification centers exist close to the border zone aduanas).
~ ~ Verifies that the vehicle has not been reported stolen
~ ~ Verifies that the vehicle VIN number matches the title.
~ ~ Presents any/all US-titled vehicles to American Customs (CBP) to perform the required US export (this process takes an average of two days – but CBP rules say to bring the vehicle to them 72 hours before the planned export). (Editor’s Note: The rules for Canadian vehicles are still being resolved on this issue.)
~ ~ Prepares the importation pedimento.
~ ~ Pays the proper taxes
~ ~ Turns in the definitive importation pedimento fully paid.

3. Present the vehicle along with the pedimento at the aduana module for inspection and receive the import pedimentos with its attachments and register the vehicle in the Public Vehicle Registry.

Remember, only a licensed customs agent can do the procedure with Aduana. Vehicle importations are not done in the street. Do not turn over money or documents in the street.

I am just the messenger, I do not know how Canadians will fare without a title, or why they should deal with US customs or heck if anybody but a Mexican can import as it doesn’t mention foreigners at all. Also I have no idea how people will babysit customs agents and make sure they comply with the list of items SAT gives.”

This good information was prepared by Mexican licensed attorney Lic. Spencer Richard McMullen (Cédula #7928026) and official court translator (Perito Traductor). Mx 376-765-7553 Chapalalaw.com


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Bobbyb said:


> There have been so many changes one cannot keep up with the car imports....


I will be surprised if the rules DONT change again in the next year or two. 

I don't know if the current rules are formally part of NAFTA or not, but I don't think it matters. No matter what, I think there's a good chance that the current rules will change.

Whether we end up with NAFTA 2.0 (a re-negotiated and updated NAFTA that includes Canada) or MAFTA (a bilateral Mexican-American Free Trade Agreement that excludes Canada) or NoFTA (no free trade agreement, aka a trade war), the rules for used cars are likely to get swept in by the gravitational pull of the negotiations about new cars, which are certain to be a heated issue.


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## rpattyn (Mar 11, 2016)

I am also taking my car on my journeys through Mexico and have paid the TIP which is valid until my tourist visa expires so will make a border run at that time to hand it back and buy a new one. Am thinking that I may not even have to go quite as far as the border since immigration is about 30 km from border - anyone know if that is true or would I have to really leave and come back through the border post?

Since my car is registered in TX where I was living, I can just drive back to TX and renew the plates because I won't have to show proof of address again. I will just have to get insurance again for USA driving.


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## RickS (Aug 6, 2009)

Generally speaking one can do a 'turn around' with no problem. Turn in/cancel the TIP, turn in your Tourist Card, have your Passport stamped. Then reverse the process. Depending on how your paid your TIP deposit, it will be returned in cash on the spot or be refunded to the credit card you used in 3-4 business days... my experience. 

HOWEVER, there is some anecdotal evidence that some border agents will resist this tactic, so many/most folks just leave that site and come back after the shift changes. If that fails (not saying it will) then find another close border crossing.


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