# Renters in Mexico,



## elrey (May 13, 2010)

I am ending a three year lease in Apodaca, Mexico. The landlord refuses to return my security deposit. Are there any remedies, civil or criminal. I was aware that I must forego interest on my security deposit, however I want my deposit back, if for no other reason its the principal.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

I´ve heard that when that happens renters have been know to take the propane tanks, doors, fridge, stove, anything that will cost to replace somewhere and when they got their money back the landlord got his stuff back.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


elrey said:



I am ending a three year lease in Apodaca, Mexico. The landlord refuses to return my security deposit. Are there any remedies, civil or criminal. I was aware that I must forego interest on my security deposit, however I want my deposit back, if for no other reason its the principal.

Click to expand...

_You may have civil redress but I would suggest only if you have a rental contract in Spanish specifically acknowledging that the refund you seek is specifically a security deposit and can prove, probably with photographic evidence at the time you first occupied the dwelling at at the time you departed for good, that there was absolutely no damage to that dwelling during your stay there. Also remember that e-mail communications are not admissable in these civil suit procedures in Mexico.

Forget your "principles" and go in down and out. A few years ago we were cheated by a landlord out of a $6,000 Peso deposit on a rental in Chiapas - one we had secured for a week while we sought to purchase a home down there. The crooked landlord just told us to get lost after he subsequently rented the room we had secured to another renter who agreed to rent the same room for a much longer time period. However, we prevailed even though we had no leg to stand on under Mexican law because the landlord was a tax cheat living part time in the U.S. and Mexico who had never paid taxes to Hacienda on gross rentals received on his Mexico property. Attorneys we contacted in San Cristobal de Las Casas told us to forget it even though they sympathized with us and knew this guy was a crook. However, when we threatened to expose this guy as a tax cheat to Hacienda, we got our deposit back in a New York second. 

Many landlords are tax cheats down here failing to pay taxes due on cash based rentals. Perhaps the tax authorities up there in Nuevo Leon would be interested in any propery owner renting that property and not reporting that taxable income to them. Maybe you landlord is doing something else perhaps a bit shady or illegal - a very common problem in this country. 

Simply threatn to report your rental to the tax people and, if your landlord is a forerigner, threaten to report this income he/she received to immigration as they may never have reproetd this income to Hacienda or immigrationm. 

To get your money back in Mexico, play by their rules. If you are simply taikng about "principle", forget it.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

elrey said:


> I am ending a three year lease in Apodaca, Mexico. The landlord refuses to return my security deposit. Are there any remedies, civil or criminal. I was aware that I must forego interest on my security deposit, however I want my deposit back, if for no other reason its the principal.


The 'devil' is in the details. If you have a written lease check to see what it provides for regarding the security deposit. If you do, or you don't have a lease ... you can always visit the nearest office of PROFECO, the attorney general for consumer protection, and file a complaint. If it seems to PROFECO that you have a reasonably good complaint ... it has a good record of resolving matters successfully in favor of the person filing the complaint. In many cities in Mexico, landlords are required to file with or notify the local municipio treasury office so that taxes are paid on the rental income. When you visit PROFECO bring your copy of the lease and proof you paid the security deposit and your monthly rental receipts and any other written documentation or correspondence with the landlord. Or just notes you may have kept for your own files. And just before heading for the PROFECO office, courteously inform your landlord where you're going. Just the threat of PROFECO or any other government agency often causes an offending party to resolve the matter.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

yes check what the lease says about the return of the deposit. When I had a similar problem, I went to PROFECO and they told me they did not handle rental disputes, they sent me to the Public Defender who took me to the Municipal Court.
It is an arbitrage type deal and they do not have much teeth.

I threaten the landlord to denounce him for fraud to the Hacienda , for lack of permit and a few other things and that worked way better than what the court would have done.

Find the dirt on the landlord and threaten him or take his furniture until he returns your money. If you are now out of the country forget it and chuck it up to experience.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

citlali said:


> yes check what the lease says about the return of the deposit. When I had a similar problem, I went to PROFECO and they told me they did not handle rental disputes, they sent me to the Public Defender who took me to the Municipal Court.
> It is an arbitrage type deal and they do not have much teeth.
> 
> I threaten the landlord to denounce him for fraud to the Hacienda , for lack of permit and a few other things and that worked way better than what the court would have done.
> ...


I have chatted with people who have had landlord problems in the past and landlords who have had tenant problems in the past and all was resolved out of the public eye by strategies that they know work, in private, by using "any" means at their disposal including a distant cousin visiting the party and explaining in detail the situation. 

These things seem to be family matters and more common here in the past but still continues it appears. 

This has been discussed with business owners as well with bad or dishonest employees wanting severance pay etc. or vendor problems when money is involved a couple of times as well.

Lawyers, Courts, Hacienda, PROFECO never seems to be discussed as an option, but I can imagine if the sum was large enough it might be.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

AlanMexicali said:


> Lawyers, Courts, Hacienda, PROFECO never seems to be discussed as an option, but I can imagine if the sum was large enough it might be.


Regarding PROFECO, I can only speak to my involvement with it and the continuing involvement of frends who are in the D.F. PROFECO has and I believe still does accept complaints regarding all sorts of agreements, big value and small ... including housing rental issues. Maybe there's now an arbitration process, too. I'm not certain about that. From what I'm recalling of statistics reported for 2012, the largest volume of complaints filed with PROFECO are against TelMex. Electra stores come in second. These are not large amount disputes by expat standards, but can be significant to lower-income Mexicans. As is the case with many things in Mexico, procedures within a government agency are most often inconsistently applied nationwide. What happens in Guanajuato isn't what happens in Cuernavaca, etc. Having paperwork to support a complaint is essential, however. If there's been an oral agreement ... the complaining party is out of luck, IMO.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

PROFECO turned me down in Chiapas when I had problems with a rental deposit, they told me that was not part of their"job"
I helped an artisan take UPS to PROFECO as well and that was a waste of time. They use arbitration and although we had the contract, pictures and all the documentation available they were not able to do anything.
The claim was for 30 000 pesos of merchandised that had not been delivered for some unknown reason,They said they could not find the place when they delivered 2 other packages to the same address the same week... they had correct address and phone numbers,, the packages were returned and opened and the merchandise was stolen in DF.
UPS offered 1000 pesos and because they offered to settle and the artisan did not accept it they had to drop it and did not fine UPS...they told us to take the claim to a civil court.

I see a lot of people go to them about the utility companies, and large companies but I do not know what the results are.
For that artisan and for me personally they were a waste of time.

Blackmail and threads are a whole lot more efficient if used properly.


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## mes1952 (Dec 11, 2012)

I've never met anyone here in Baja who says PROFECO is worth the time and trouble. Most says it's a big waste of time to even go there.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

[_QUOTE=mes1952;1159646]I've never met anyone here in Baja who says PROFECO is worth the time and trouble. Most says it's a big waste of time to even go there.[/QUOTE]_

As Citlali just said, a waste of time. Her and her artisan´s complaint about lost and stolen merchandise under the care of a major international shipper taken to PROFECO for arbitrage was dismissed out of hand when the guilty shipping party offered $1,000 Pesos to cover the cost of thousands of pesos worth of stolen or lost merchandise under their care. The artisan rejected the offer and PROFECO said, tough sh*t - an offer was made and you turned it down. The fairness of the offer was not even taken into consideration. 

Next case. 

You trip over yourself in this country and you are on your own which is OK once you become used to living and doing business here but just understand that going in to any contract into which you may enter. If the guy you are dealing with hits below the belt you must return the favor. Remember that as a foreigner or, for that matter, a Mexican with no conections, you are the red meat in the eyes of the wolf and soon to be dinner unless you outrun the wolf. Always remember that and be clever.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Hound Dog said:


> Remember that as a foreigner or, for that matter, a Mexican with no conections, you are the red meat in the eyes of the wolf and soon to be dinner unless you outrun the wolf. Always remember that and be clever.


Good businesspersons in Mexico always want to get to know the person on the otherside of the deal/business arrangement. That's been my experience/observation. They want to size-up the other person to determine for themselves if this is a person they want to do business with. They understand that contracts are broken and there's often little recourse to a satisfactory resolution. This happens at the largest of companies, as well. One of the jobs I had in Mexico was working as a 'cultural intervention consultant' to Mexican and to the American companies they wanted to do business with. The Americans think the Mexicans are lazy and bad businesspersons because they don't get 'down to business' the moment the two meet someplace. The American is typically a 'no nonsense' 'just the facts' type of person while the Mexican may ask about the American's family, about the trip to Mexico, about sports or other interests, about life in general. Then they may go for a meal and not talk business. A second meeting is set to discuss business. And the American gets antsy, pushing for business talk. Agree with it or not, the Mexican is sizing-up this American. What type of person is he? What are his standards? Does he have integrity? Will he deliver the goods/services or break our deal? And, as I've said already, the American walks away from the first encounter thinking the Mexican is lazy. While there are exceptions to this scenario, I find more often than not that it's a template for the relationships. So I would counsel the Mexican business executive on what to expect, to understand the anxiety on the part of the American. And, I'd counsel American clients about what to expect when walking into a typical business meeting in Mexico. The goal was to reduce stress and foster a better relationship.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Yes Mexicans like to get to know people before dealing with them. Last February we stopped in Tehuantepec, and I saw a mural I like and asked for the name of the painter as I wanted to commission him to do a painting.
I only had his name and the name of the town he lived in. I did find him and knock at the man+s door. He was very reticent about talking and we agreed we would taled when we went back in April or May.
I called the man, made an appointment with him and his wife as in the Ithmus the women cut the deals and went by earlier this month.

We got together , he told me all about himself and his family and then we got interviewed and then he decided he would do a painting. He will make seveal and will call me when he has something to look at, meanwhile his wife invited us for a party in September... I do not know when I will get the painting but without going through this , I am pretty sure I would never get anything.. When we left he said now that we know each other we can talk about the paintings...


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