# Random thoughts on Japan



## Rube

Or as some people call it, the sound of one hand clapping. Just a thread to throw out random thoughts so I don't have to make new threads.

Scotch in hand so here we go.....

*
Cram Schools*

If that's not enough proof your education system is whack, there's something seriously wrong. Of course we all know there is something seriously wrong but still...


My kids are spending every day of their spring break at the cram school, poor things. 


You got to wonder if it's by design though because that is such a huge business. Must families sent their kids, I pay something like 20,000 a month for them. Don't mind paying the money, just wish the poor ******s could skip school and have some fun since it's not doing much for them anyway.


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## larabell

Yeah... mine both go to Kumon but not every day.

I've always thought it somewhat upside-down that you have to take your exams before you can get into the school of your choice and then, once you're in, you coast until you graduate. What's the sense in even going if everything you're ever going to learn you learn up-front in cram school? (Speaking mostly of college in this case, of course, but the pattern is pervasive, even for elementary school kids hoping to get into a decent middle school.)


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## Rube

Did you catch the news that something like 30% of college students never study, and the rest something like less than an hour a day? It's no wonder industry complains to the government that graduates are useless.


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## Rube

Some thoughts on this image of Japan being a polite country. 

Japan does certainly seem polite on the surface especially to people who can only see the surface and I guess if someone wants to have a limited opinion of a country that's a good one to have. But I love Japan and for me, when you love a person or a place you love them for their faults just as much as their attributes. 

The other day I was at the market and the lady in front of me was clearly handicapped and could barely move. She was having problems closing her hand into a cup to receive her change, taking too long to do it so the register lady just threw the change at her. 

This is the kind of stuff I see daily. 

Any drivers out there? There is a great observation-generalization one can make about the generations here. When you're trying to turn where there is a cross walk, young people who are about to cross tend to speed up just enough to get in front of you....then slow right down and take their time once you're blocked. Most old people; who no one would expect to go fast, actually speed up to get out of your way. 

Japan is people pissing in the streets, litter bugs dropping their trash down as they walk, and early morning clean up to cover up the thoughtlessness of people the night before. 

Sure Japan is polite, but it's also rude as any country I've been. 

lol, just thought of the grass mediums of the larger streets here and their mountains of coke bottles filled with piss.


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## larabell

Rube said:


> Did you catch the news that something like 30% of college students never study, and the rest something like less than an hour a day?


I didn't see that but I'm not surprised. Students study like crazy to get into a decent University but, once in, they're almost guaranteed to graduate. That's what I mean. The whole system seems upside-down. And now that my oldest is entering 5th grade, he's going to be getting onto the same treadmill this year.


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## GaijinBuddhist

Are you describing Japanese schools or American schools LOL- sounds like education sucks all over. One of the main reasons I'm not sure about having kids!

But it's true people are people everywhere. Polite Asian cultures like Japan and Thailand have a lot going on under the surface.

About the handicapped lady in the supermarket - most Asians have a major stigma about handicapped people. They are often afraid it is contagious. I used to work with handicapped children and saw it quite a bit. My Chinese ex was actually worried about having kids with me because she thought the brain injured kids I work with could somehow hurt our kids... Crazy and most Asians I know have similar fear of handicapped people. Ever wonder why you don't see many handicapped in Asia? Because they are hidden away by the families most of the time.


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## larabell

Been shoved out of the train by an old lady recently? Or had some OL run in front of you just to be in front and then, once there, slow down so she could go back to reading her email?

My theory, such as it is, is that the Japanese are expected to be civil in so many situations where there might be a chance of an actual connection with the other person that they take advantage of anonymous situations by dropping all the pretense and just ignoring anyone around them. It's built into the culture because you're not expected to show your real feelings 

That doesn't bother me nearly as much as the occasional times when I find the same behavior rubbing off on me. Not so much any more... not since I haven't had to commute to work on a regular basis.


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## GaijinBuddhist

Yes - I think you are right. It's funny because Japanese have very good awareness and depth of character but there is a huge disconnect as well. I was thinking about that on the train last night at 11:30, filled with drunk guys who could barely stand up in the train and had no problem knocking everyone around. I'm wondering where is the politeness now? And by the way why do couples spend every night avoiding each other? There are some things that are difficult to understand when we are living in foreign cultures. 

I spend a lot of time in Thailand and Thai people are very proud, Buddhist, family oriented, etc. However, they have no problem lying their little asses off about almost everything and being promiscuous with lots of partners... it's cultural and difficult to understand, but that's how it is.


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## Rube

GaijinBuddhist said:


> Are you describing Japanese schools or American schools LOL- sounds like education sucks all over. One of the main reasons I'm not sure about having kids!
> 
> But it's true people are people everywhere. Polite Asian cultures like Japan and Thailand have a lot going on under the surface.
> 
> About the handicapped lady in the supermarket - most Asians have a major stigma about handicapped people. They are often afraid it is contagious. I used to work with handicapped children and saw it quite a bit. My Chinese ex was actually worried about having kids with me because she thought the brain injured kids I work with could somehow hurt our kids... Crazy and most Asians I know have similar fear of handicapped people. Ever wonder why you don't see many handicapped in Asia? Because they are hidden away by the families most of the time.


When I first came here there was almost zero access for wheelchairs at places like train stations and malls. Out in the country side you still have to call hours in advance so they can be waiting to carry you up the stairs but what a hassle.


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## Rube

larabell said:


> Been shoved out of the train by an old lady recently? Or had some OL run in front of you just to be in front and then, once there, slow down so she could go back to reading her email?
> 
> My theory, such as it is, is that the Japanese are expected to be civil in so many situations where there might be a chance of an actual connection with the other person that they take advantage of anonymous situations by dropping all the pretense and just ignoring anyone around them. It's built into the culture because you're not expected to show your real feelings
> 
> That doesn't bother me nearly as much as the occasional times when I find the same behavior rubbing off on me. Not so much any more... not since I haven't had to commute to work on a regular basis.


You know the term obatalian, lol, I think it comes from crossing obasan with alien and they get obatalian. 

I agree with thoughts on people letting their pretense down in crowds and such.

edit: it must come from those zombie movies which were renamed "Batalion" here and were hugely popular.


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## larabell

Just to be sure... these are mostly all generalizations. I have one Japanese friend who lives nearby who always manages to be considerate, even to people he's not likely to ever meet again. And I knew one young Japanese guy who used to leave work (in a Japanese company) around 5 or 5:30 every evening because he wanted to spend time with his family. And these behaviors we're discussing are certainly not absent in our own cultures, either.

I agree that "people are people everywhere". We're colored by the culture in which we are raised but a lot also depends on the specific person. And when you're a foreigner in Japan, any behavioral trait you see that you don't particularly care for is easily mapped in our brains as being endemic to Japanese culture -- but I've seen some pretty rude people where I come from, too... and some very polite ones. I do feel there's more of a disconnect here and that may be because people have politeness beat into them rather than letting is come out from their own hearts... or it could be that I'm still seeing things through Western-colored glasses.

BTW, my reference to schools was a reference to Japanese schools. I have little experience with American schools in Japan but I would suspect that if one wanted to get into a Japanese University, one would have to follow the same exam-first, school-later model. It's just strange to me because, where I come from, you attended school first, learned the material as best you could, and *then* had to pass the exams.


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## larabell

I know the term and I also heard it was a cross between obasan and "Batalion". I'm pretty sure that if I'm still here by the time I'm 70 or 80 yrs old I'm gonna be just as pushy as the obatalion. I wonder if there's a similar slang term for ojisan.


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## Rube

larabell said:


> I know the term and I also heard it was a cross between obasan and "Batalion". I'm pretty sure that if I'm still here by the time I'm 70 or 80 yrs old I'm gonna be just as pushy as the obatalion. I wonder if there's a similar slang term for ojisan.


Yeah, "Ojisan" lol. You'll often here them refered to as ganko ojisans and so on. 

This isn't a thread to just talk about the stuff we don't like in Japan, I'm just saying every place has it's own version and I think it takes a while before us gaijins even understand that. I think it's a shame that Japan isn't as known for the stuff that goes against the image.

I wouldn't worry about being so P.C., I'm counting on people knowing what the vibe is. That's one thing that is so great about Japan, not so much into that P.C. stuff. 

And I was talking about Japanese schools, my kids just go to normal school here.

You don't see a lot of the joy of learning in kids here like what I experienced growing up. My general observation is that it's like no kid left behind policy on steroids. (heavy emphasis on test scores as sole indicator of success). Kids actually enjoy their cram schools more. Just nuts.


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## larabell

Rube said:


> You don't see a lot of the joy of learning in kids here like what I experienced growing up.


Really??? As far as I can tell, my kids love going to school (ku-ritsu) and I'm often taken aback at some of the insights the older one has brought home over the past couple years. I was bored silly with school when I was his age (of course, going to a Catholic school probably didn't help). It's hard to tell how much of what he learns is from school, how much is his own personal interest (he likes to read about Japanese history, for some reason) and how much is from being exposed to non-stop media. And both my kids have been doing the "challenge" series from Benesse since before 1st grade so that also exposes them to a lot of interesting stuff.

The older one does like juku better than daytime school, though. The younger one doesn't seem nearly as motivated and may well end up flipping burgers for a living.


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## Rube

That was a brain fart, I meant that they don't encourage that feeling in school here like in the school I went to, but I went to a private school with a very high teacher student ratio. Kids here to love to learn the same as anywhere.


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## Rube

Living in Japan means that you probably have never seen a Kardashian. 

Most of Japanese TV sucks as well but for different reasons. Reality TV here used to mean Denpa Shonen, which is a show I used to like. Of course anybody who reads the online news sees all the various headlines through the years. 

Any country where a Kardashian is made a star shouldn't have nukes plain and simple. Not that anybody should, but that's just scary.


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## Rube

What is that experession? Insanity is repeating the same thing again and again and expecting a different result? That pretty much sums up education here. 

My kid just started middle school, he has about an hour or basketball practice before school and then a few hours after school before he gets home in time to go to cram school. He leaves home at 6:15 in the morning and finishes sometimes as late as 9pm. 

He's 12. You couldn't get away with making an adult work that hard and yet they don't think twice about making kids do this because......they had to do it when they were kids. Well god damn, do they really think things are going to turn our different for our kids? For all the studying and practice they do in this country you'd think they would expect some real results. Where are all the gold medals at the olympics? Where are all the nobel prizes? Where are the happy healthy well formed individuals? It's no wonder that people are driving their cars into people at kyoto and stuff. No wonder everybody complains about stress and stomach cancer. The only wonder is why on Earth they can't put it together and figure out their system sucks. 

The ex told me, "Well everybody has to do it." Same stupid excuse that the nazis used. 

I get my kids from high school thank god, then they can start to live and enjoy life. End of rant.


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## lorgnette

I like the trust and dedication in Japanese friends. One time I mentioned I like fugu, and when it was the right season in December, a friend researched and found a tiny three generation sushi place. I will always remember the lengths they went to enable our family enjoy a dish I read about.


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## Rube

There certainly is that good host thing running through a lot of Asia. What's strange is that a lot of foriegners end up with more traditional Japanese experiences than most Japanese. How many of us have seen kabuki?


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## Rube

Thank god we vacation when we want to. Was watching the news this morning and saw a bit on a 1.5 kilo line for some stuff which is in right now. Never seen so many people happy to be waiting in line. Wasn't there talk about off setting the holidays between the east and west? 

Learning about roof balconies. They always seemed so awesome. Now that I have 60 sqaure meters of it the neighbor tells me in the summer the balcony will melt foam beach sandals. Set up my automatic watering system for my veggies and flowers using grey water from the bath, very cool and even eco like. Now I'm looking at 240,000 yen to have the balcony covered in super afro turf stuff that is supposed to reduce temps by 10 C. I am so scared of the summer. My place is all floor to ceiling glass with sun morning to night.


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## Guest

I agree with Gaijin Buddhist that public education sucks everywhere! My children were raised in public schools systems in the USA and I thought it must be a joke, they train kids to be brain dead by the time they reach Junior High School. I was raised in a European School system where the educational approach was completely opposite.
But that was years ago, who knows what they do now...
In any case, when parents have the money kids can get a better education, it's still the sad fact of modern life.
When I went to get my TESOL here in Tokyo we were told how backwoods and culturally different the school systems are. We did have to teach various age levels at various schools, the little kids were more open than the college students.
One has to remember that the educational systems in Japan only westernized during the Meji Era. 
Culturally, things are as they are in Japan, and if we want to live here, we have to accept it. I know how tough it was for me to get used to the multi culture in the USA and especially the vast distances. Without a car, you're sunk! Backwoodishness was horrible there and the same they have here too. It's human nature. Remember, Japan was isolated for centuries and then they imitated things mainly after European models.
SO, I don't think education here is a joke, kids study very hard here. Japan has done what no other country did before economically and culturally. They are the most adaptable, amazing culture on this planet. They are, in general, very kind, generous, very intelligent people who go out of their way to help you, if you show the right attitude!!!


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## Rube

marzipan said:


> SO, I don't think education here is a joke, kids study very hard here.


What does a child studying hard have to do with the quality of the education? Where I'm from children didn't have to go to cram schools after school to learn what their teachers should have taught them to begin with. To me that's pretty clear indication that the education system is a joke. In fact leading industry here in Japan have repeatedly complained to government to improve the system since it's failing so bad. 

So since your kids didn't go to school here what are you basing your opinons on? The right attitude? All about the attitude.


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## Guest

You can always leave and go back to the US if you don't like it here!!!
Attitude has a lot to do with it here. The system is no better in the US.
You cannot leave everything to the teacher but have to help them at home. 
If you have such a bad attitude about lots of things and grumble at other members here as you do me why don't you go back to where ever it is you're coming from!
I don't have to take this tone from you or anybody here!


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## larabell

Rube said:


> What's strange is that a lot of foriegners end up with more traditional Japanese experiences than most Japanese. How many of us have seen kabuki?


I have... and I've seen a Noh play and had lunch on one of those boats you see floating around off O-daiba. But when I talk with some of my Japanese friends from around the neighborhood, I find that many of them haven't had the same experiences and they tell me (jokingly, I hope) that I'm "more Japanese" than they are. But I noticed that in myself when I was back in the US, too... It took a visit from a Japanese friend when I was living in San Jose to get me over to see Yosemite. Up to that point is just never occurred to me to go. When something is close and always available, I guess it's a lot easier to ignore.

How about maps? I like to read maps so I have a pretty good idea how to get from one place to another on the trains and sometimes when hanging out with Japanese friends I end up with a better idea of the train routes than they have. But attributing that to being an ex-pat would be a mistake -- I'm sure there are Japanese who also find reading maps interesting and who get around a lot more than I do so that's not really in the same category -- though it has drawn the same "more Japanese than the Japanese" comments from a number of friends over the years.


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## Rube

marzipan said:


> You can always leave and go back to the US if you don't like it here!!!


I didn't say I didn't like it here, but I don't have puppy dog eyes for it because I've been here for 20 years. Like any place there are things you'll love and things you'll hate. 



marzipan said:


> Attitude has a lot to do with it here.


Attitude has a lot to do with life period. I imagine that I have a horrible attitude in your eyes and yet I'm pretty successful here living a life that has nothing to do with English. 



marzipan said:


> If you have such a bad attitude about lots of things and grumble at other members here as you do me why don't you go back to where ever it is you're coming from!


Like me think for a sec.....ummmm no. 

Dude don't come to a conversation about a hamburger, then give your opinion on said hamburger that you've never eaten. I'm sure you have lots of experiences you can talk about with expertise, like having the right attitude. 



marzipan said:


> I don't have to take this tone from you or anybody here!


And yet you did by reading this post.


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## Rube

larabell said:


> I have... and I've seen a Noh play and had lunch on one of those boats you see floating around off O-daiba. But when I talk with some of my Japanese friends from around the neighborhood, I find that many of them haven't had the same experiences and they tell me (jokingly, I hope) that I'm "more Japanese" than they are. But I noticed that in myself when I was back in the US, too... It took a visit from a Japanese friend when I was living in San Jose to get me over to see Yosemite. Up to that point is just never occurred to me to go. When something is close and always available, I guess it's a lot easier to ignore.
> 
> How about maps? I like to read maps so I have a pretty good idea how to get from one place to another on the trains and sometimes when hanging out with Japanese friends I end up with a better idea of the train routes than they have. But attributing that to being an ex-pat would be a mistake -- I'm sure there are Japanese who also find reading maps interesting and who get around a lot more than I do so that's not really in the same category -- though it has drawn the same "more Japanese than the Japanese" comments from a number of friends over the years.


lol, I haven't been to a Noh play yet but got the rest covered. 

I was never sure what to make of comments like "You're more Japanese so on and so on." I get it all the time and with my attitude that's clearly not the case.  Of course there is the back hand compliment, "I like you, you're not like most foriegners." Some times just to be mean I ask them how many they know. 

Sales people know their way around but I think most people just remember their routes. Remember seeing people asking for directions when they had to walk home on 3.11 I'm completely lost on the trains but I got the roads down pretty well. Glad I drove a few years before I got a navi or I would never have remembered.


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## Rube

This is the worst spring I've experienced since moving to the Tokyo area 10 years ago. I used to live in Niigata where it rains all the time, like crazy rain, and I remember always being jealous of Tokyo and cursing the weather people laughing at the 30+ days of straight sun shine. What is going on?


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## Rube

Japanese charcoal doesn't suit webber grills. I guess that wouldn't really surprise most people but I'm a little bull headed so I had to go though a few brands of Japanese charcoal before just giving up and ordering American charcoal. BBQ season is here officially. 

Would be nice to be able to get thicker slices of meat. Tried one of those on-line places for some fillets, the meat was from OZ. Wife said that she prefered Japanese fillets. At 3 times the price it's pretty obvious the the Japanese fillets are a better quality meat but for a cheap BBQ the OZ meat wasn't so bad. A decent meal.


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## tyr

I agree with aspects of the Japanese school system being broken.
The super emphasis on exams is just crazy and wrong. I thought Britain was bad, Japan takes it to extremes.
Also jukus aren't right. What is the point in paying money to go to these inferior after school schools when you then end up sleeping through class?- in Korea they are actually attempting to tackle this and banning jukus from operating past a certain time of night.

Other stuff is cool though. The way kids are proud of their school and see that they belong to it and teachers are respectable people, not the enemy, is really good. Totally the opposite of home. And the clubs system is just great.


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## Rube

Actually the quality of the jukus here is often better then that in the schools. My kids say they would rather skip school.


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## Rube

If freebreeze is supposed to get rid of smells, how can it be scented?


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## lorgnette

Rube said:


> If freebreeze is supposed to get rid of smells, how can it be scented?


Freebreeze supposedly remove odours but actually the chemical scent is much stronger and mask the odours it supposedly removed. you are smelling the chemicals not fresh air.

In some parts of Asia, these scents are removed from taxi cabs/homes and shelves as it is toxic to human health (esp babies or those with low immune systems). In other countries, there are lax regulations.

To remove some odours, effective methods: sprinkle baking powder or use ioniser/ air purifier. On plastic glass containers/bottles rinse/soak with diluted lime juice/ rice vinegar and all previous scents disappear.


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## Rube

See I thought something didn't add up. I thought it was derived from corn and natural and broke down smells something along the line of ozone.


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## larabell

It does break down smells -- but I can't quote the exact mechanism. The brand name in English is "Febreeze" and the original version actually *was* unscented. But, sales-wise, it was a disastrous flop. A subsequent marketing survey revealed that the folks whose homes most needed such a product were actually accustomed to their smelly homes and, without the scent, there was no particular reason to spend money on something that, from their point-of-view, made no difference. Instead the people who actually did use the product (or, at least, one woman they studied) used it as a sort-of "celebration" of a cleaning job well done. As a result of the research, the company jacked up the perfume content, reworked the marketing campaign, and the rest is history.

A summary of the story is on the Wikipedia page for Febreeze (it helps to use the English spelling) but I recall seeing a much more detailed version of the story in a book I read not too long ago (the book concentrated more on the marketing research breakthrough than on the actual product). I don't recall which book but if anyone is really all that interested, I can probably mount a more intensive search. For now, the Wikipedia page pretty much summarizes what I recall reading.

It is a bit ironic, though, that a product to cover up one smell with another is more likely to be a commercial success than one that attempts to fix the underlying problem.


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## Rube

LIke those pine sprays for the toilets, ends up smelling like somebody took a dump on a christmas tree.


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## larabell

Rube said:


> ... ends up smelling like somebody took a dump on a christmas tree.


ROTFL... almost literally. Which could have been a problem, given that I was sitting on the can when I read that.

My wife swears by those sprays and is always (understandably) reminding me to spray afterwards. I'm going to use that line on her someday...


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## Rube

My wife is in love with "American Smell" which I hate, the scents you find in American detergents and such. I usually have to end up throwing out whatever it is that she buys because the smells are just too strong for me. Recently she bought this horrible thing, looks like a bunch of sticks in a jar of oily scent. Lasted like 30 minutes, but at least this time she agreed it was putrid. 

Remember the department stores in the states? The Sears near us had their perfume section at the entrance. That's terrorism right there. Need a car radio and you have to run the gauntlet. 

wait a sec, that was like totally a premonitory brain fart. Right saying wrong thread and wrong time. Tin foil hat time.


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## larabell

Rube said:


> The Sears near us had their perfume section at the entrance. That's terrorism right there.


I recall wondering how anyone could tell exactly what any one perfume smelled like among such a cacophony of scents. Of course... maybe that was the whole point .

How about people (I'd say "women" but I'm not sure it doesn't work both ways) who use the same perfume (cologne) for so many years that they grow accustomed to the smell and find they need larger and larger quantities to notice any difference. If you ever attended Catholic Mass in the States, you're probably headed out the door for some fresh air right now.


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## rhornal

Anyone know of a good irish pub in Osaka? I've got some teammates heading to Japan in july, and they'll be looking for a good expat watering hole.


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## Rube

Privacy; I forgot how much I missed it. So nice to be able to walk around the home naked and sun bath on the balcony without prying eyes, 'cept for all the fighter jets and helicopters going over us and like I told the wife, everybody needs a little treat once in a while.


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