# EEA family permit refused



## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

I am married to EEA national who lives and works in the UK, THAN APPLIED for a FP and was refused. DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO. I have a right to appeal but dont know how to do it,it's even more confusing than applying. Can anybody help me,please!!!!


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

babushka said:


> I am married to EEA national who lives and works in the UK, THAN APPLIED for a FP and was refused. DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO. I have a right to appeal but dont know how to do it,it's even more confusing than applying. Can anybody help me,please!!!!


DId you get a refusal letter? If so, can you type out what was said in it regarding the reasons for the refusal? That will give us somewhere to start.


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Thanks for the reply!!! Yes I've got already theNOTICE OF IMMIGRATION REFUSAL and it is quite long. Shortly is that I do not meet all of the reguirements of Regulations 7 and 12 of the iMMIGRATION(EEA) Regulation 2006. Also I can type all text but it will take some 15 minutes to wait. I would likely do it!!


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

You have applied to join your Lithuanian husband in the UK. I note that you were recently married on the 28th of December 2012. You state that your husband has been living in the UK since 2004. You also state that you met each other through the internet in November 2011 and that you personaly met each other three times since that time. As evidence that you are in genuine relationship you have provided your marrige sertificate,some pictures,air tickets and skype messages. However, I have noted that the wedding pictures show only you and your husband. This casts doubt on the circumstances of your wedding,and you have provided no evidence of your own personal circumstances in Ukraine other than a marrige certificate. Moreover, I have noted that your applications for visas in 2002 and 2003 were refused because you provided fals documents. Whilst I recognise that a period of 10 years has elapsed since that time this fact,taken together with the absence of any evidence of your circumstances in Ukraine,casts doubt on your application. I am not therefore satisfied that you have formed a genuine long term relationship with your sponsor. The definition of "spouse" in the Immigration(EEA) Regulations 2006 does not include a party to a marrige of convenience. I am satisfied that you are a party to a marrige of convenience and are therefore not the family member of an EEA national in accordance with Regulations 7 of the Immigration (EEA) Regulation 2006.
I therefore refuse your EEA FP application because I am not satisfied that you meet all of the reguirements of Regulations 7 and 12 of the I (EEA) R 2006
PS: They made a mistake, because my husband is Latvian not Lithuanian.Also they didnt take into consideration our e-mails and the fact that my husband send me some money...
Also they didnt returned me any documents even i provided them with copies.
Its a complete mess they created and I think they made decision on predjuice, because I was already refused once.
But anyway I need a help as completely dont know how to appeal !!!!!


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Please help me !!!!


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## lessenich (Sep 28, 2012)

babushka said:


> You have applied to join your Lithuanian husband in the UK. I note that you were recently married on the 28th of December 2012. You state that your husband has been living in the UK since 2004. You also state that you met each other through the internet in November 2011 and that you personaly met each other three times since that time. As evidence that you are in genuine relationship you have provided your marrige sertificate,some pictures,air tickets and skype messages. However, I have noted that the wedding pictures show only you and your husband. This casts doubt on the circumstances of your wedding,and you have provided no evidence of your own personal circumstances in Ukraine other than a marrige certificate. Moreover, I have noted that your applications for visas in 2002 and 2003 were refused because you provided fals documents. Whilst I recognise that a period of 10 years has elapsed since that time this fact,taken together with the absence of any evidence of your circumstances in Ukraine,casts doubt on your application. I am not therefore satisfied that you have formed a genuine long term relationship with your sponsor. The definition of "spouse" in the Immigration(EEA) Regulations 2006 does not include a party to a marrige of convenience. I am satisfied that you are a party to a marrige of convenience and are therefore not the family member of an EEA national in accordance with Regulations 7 of the Immigration (EEA) Regulation 2006.
> I therefore refuse your EEA FP application because I am not satisfied that you meet all of the reguirements of Regulations 7 and 12 of the I (EEA) R 2006
> PS: They made a mistake, because my husband is Latvian not Lithuanian.Also they didnt take into consideration our e-mails and the fact that my husband send me some money...
> Also they didnt returned me any documents even i provided them with copies.
> ...


When did you submit your application and when did you got the refusal did they call you it your hubby?


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

I submited it online on the 9th of February,made a personal delivery of printed application on the 14th of Feb. and refusal was dated 25/02/2013. In Ukraine is only a visa section. All docs. they send to Warsaw for review.


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

And no thing like "hubby" just "husband"


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

babushka said:


> You have applied to join your Lithuanian husband in the UK. I note that you were recently married on the 28th of December 2012. You state that your husband has been living in the UK since 2004. You also state that you met each other through the internet in November 2011 and that you personaly met each other three times since that time. As evidence that you are in genuine relationship you have provided your marrige sertificate,some pictures,air tickets and skype messages. However, I have noted that the wedding pictures show only you and your husband. This casts doubt on the circumstances of your wedding,and you have provided no evidence of your own personal circumstances in Ukraine other than a marrige certificate. Moreover, I have noted that your applications for visas in 2002 and 2003 were refused because you provided fals documents. Whilst I recognise that a period of 10 years has elapsed since that time this fact,taken together with the absence of any evidence of your circumstances in Ukraine,casts doubt on your application. I am not therefore satisfied that you have formed a genuine long term relationship with your sponsor. The definition of "spouse" in the Immigration(EEA) Regulations 2006 does not include a party to a marrige of convenience. I am satisfied that you are a party to a marrige of convenience and are therefore not the family member of an EEA national in accordance with Regulations 7 of the Immigration (EEA) Regulation 2006.
> I therefore refuse your EEA FP application because I am not satisfied that you meet all of the reguirements of Regulations 7 and 12 of the I (EEA) R 2006
> PS: They made a mistake, because my husband is Latvian not Lithuanian.Also they didnt take into consideration our e-mails and the fact that my husband send me some money...
> Also they didnt returned me any documents even i provided them with copies.
> ...


Okay, I can see a few things here. 

What type of wedding did you have? Your ECO states that in wedding photos there was no one else present - is that true? Did you not have any friends/family present? Wedding photos without any guests can be an indication of the possibility of a relationship not being genuine, as if you were attempting to hide the marriage from friends/family. Do you have any photos of the two of you together with friends & family?

The ECO states that you have not provided evidence of your own personal situation in the Ukraine - I'm not 100% sure what they are insinuating, but perhaps providing additional information about your life in the Ukraine might be helpful. 

It didn't help that you had a serious problem with your applications in 2002/3 because you were providing false documents. Even though you have abided by the 10 year ban, it means that every single application you will make to the UKBA will be very closely scrutinised. The onus is on YOU to prove that you had a genuine relationship, and your ECO clearly wasn't satisfied that it was/is. 

Stating that your husband has been sending you money in the Ukraine does nothing to help your case, in fact, it could be misconstrued that your husband was "paying" you, so money transfers do nothing regarding genuineness of a relationship. 

There should be instructions in the refusal letter about your right of appeal. If you can gather additional information regarding your situation in the Ukraine, and additional proof of a genuine relationship (photos with you & friends/family), etc., you may have a chance. 

Wait and see what some of the other more experienced members to chime in, see if they have any additional suggestions. Good luck.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

> PS: They made a mistake, because my husband is Latvian not Lithuanian.Also they didnt take into consideration our e-mails and the fact that my husband send me some money...
> Also they didnt returned me any documents even i provided them with copies.
> Its a complete mess they created and I think they made decision on predjuice, because I was already refused once.
> But anyway I need a help as completely dont know how to appeal !!!!!


The "mess" you find yourself in began in 2002 when you provided false documents in a visa application to enter the UK. This "mess" was made worse when you again provided false documents in 2003 for another visa application to enter the UK 

It is UKBA policy and _not_ prejudice towards you that rendered your third refusal... anyone with a refusal on their record is going to be more thoroughly examined, so because of the first two refusals on your record, any further applications you make are going to be examined more closely than if you had a clear record and as a result, they have found that there are serious questions regarding the legitimacy of your marriage. 

They have said they don't believe your wedding to be genuine. Did you have any family at your wedding? If so, do you have wedding photos with them from your wedding day? It would have been helpful to include them. While you didn't necessarily have to have a big wedding, had you provided more photos from your wedding of you with friends and family would have gone a long way to helping your application. 

In regard to the money that your husband sends to you, because they are already convinced that yours is a marriage of convenience to get you out of the Ukraine, it's going to be almost impossible for you to prove that the money that your husband has sent wasn't in support of what they consider to be a marriage of convenience, especially in light of the fact that you provided no information about your life in Ukraine. 

I don't know what to advise other than the fact that an appeal won't likely be successful. My best, non-professional advise would be to either apply again, making sure you satisfy all of the problems identified by the refusal letter or wait 6 months and try again.


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Well thanks a lot for a reply it helps a bit. About the pictures there were few where we all together I mean my family AND NOT ONLY ON OUR WEDDING DAY BUT SOME PICTURES OF US AND MY FAMILY WITH FRIENDS WHERE WE ARE HAVING BARBECUE IN THE EVENING WHEN HE CAME TO SEE ME THE FIRST TIME. And i am as well surprised that they have not noticed it!!!!!! In our e-mails we wrote to each other that wedding we plan to have is going to be in a family circle as we have fast defore X-mas and it is against our religion to celebrate anything with music and dances at that time( believe e-mails were not taken into consideration at all)
My personal situation was stated as "unemployed" and again back to e-mails where I wrote to my husband that I work in the garden and get profit from selling left overs ,like strawberies,wallnuts apples....
About my previous refusal. I was in my early 20th and just wanted to go to Teachers Conference in London.So collected all docs. and submitted them but was refused. I cant remember if I appealed or re-applied but was the same. Taking into consideration how they act now I do not surprised that I was refused 10 years ago...... Very confused and dissappointed.
To wait is a good advise but I have only 28 days to appeal and I live in Ukraine it take a bit of time the post will arrive to the UK.
But honestly now I have smth at least and the biggest problem is how to write it so it looks like a proper formal letter. I do not know it!
And I have a question CAN I APPEAL AND RE-APPLY AT THE SAME TIME. HEARD IT IS POSSIBLE BUT DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT FOR. CAN YOU HELP, PLEASE .


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

babushka said:


> Well thanks a lot for a reply it helps a bit. About the pictures there were few where we all together I mean my family AND NOT ONLY ON OUR WEDDING DAY BUT SOME PICTURES OF US AND MY FAMILY WITH FRIENDS WHERE WE ARE HAVING BARBECUE IN THE EVENING WHEN HE CAME TO SEE ME THE FIRST TIME. And i am as well surprised that they have not noticed it!!!!!! In our e-mails we wrote to each other that wedding we plan to have is going to be in a family circle as we have fast defore X-mas and it is against our religion to celebrate anything with music and dances at that time( believe e-mails were not taken into consideration at all)
> _*My personal situation was stated as "unemployed"*_ and again back to e-mails where I wrote to my husband that I work in the garden and get profit from selling left overs ,like strawberies,wallnuts apples....
> About my previous refusal. I was in my early 20th and just wanted to go to Teachers Conference in London.So collected all docs. and submitted them but was refused. I cant remember if I appealed or re-applied but was the same. Taking into consideration how they act now I do not surprised that I was refused 10 years ago...... Very confused and dissappointed.
> To wait is a good advise but I have only 28 days to appeal and I live in Ukraine it take a bit of time the post will arrive to the UK.
> ...


You can't appeal _and_ re-apply at the same time... you must choose one or the other.

Being unemployed was also likely a factor in their decision that your marriage is not genuine... that along with the fact he sends you money and that you'd only visited with your husband 3 times in the year before you got married.

Again, I don't know what your options are, as I'm not familiar with EU Family Permits... hopefully Joppa or Jrge can come and look at your situation and give you some advice.


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Thank you for your replies any way and hope that Joppa or Jrge will help me with advise. My husband is a full time employed persone and he actually was on 10 days leave for our wedding(he had a letter from his employer). He arrived on the 22nd of December and only on the 27th we got a pemition to marry and did it the next day on Friday as he had to go back on the 31st,it is Monday. So I believe he is a busy man and could not let himself to go here- there as much as he wanted. Also he had a letter-characteristic from his employer saying that he playes an important part in their bussines. Can I somehow refer to the fact that he is really a busy-one and couldnt travel a lot.


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

I am slowly running out of time,please anybody else can help me ??? What shall I do if Iam late to appeal????


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

*mrs*

I've got a good advice. My first refusals are based on the UK Immigration Law and the second is on EU Immigration Law so the ECO WAS INCORREC taking the first refusals into consideration to refuse the FP.

I am asking for advice what is better to appeal or to apply again and how long should I wait before applying again?


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

babushka said:


> I've got a good advice. My first refusals are based on the UK Immigration Law and the second is on EU Immigration Law so the ECO WAS INCORREC taking the first refusals into consideration to refuse the FP.
> 
> I am asking for advice what is better to appeal or to apply again and how long should I wait before applying again?


I'm not entirely sure in your case whether you should appeal or re-apply, but if you believe that the ECO made a WRONG decision, you should appeal your case. Ensure you cover all the issues they have raised in your appeal. 

Also, to clarify, your ECO did not refuse you because you had previous refusals. They refused you for valid reasons. The onus is on you, the applicant, to prove that you meet all the criteria. The ECO will (and should!) take into consideration all previous refusals you have on record, ESPECIALLY when they were due to submitting false documents that resulted in a 10 year ban from the UK. It was because of that that your application received extra scrutiny.


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

WELL I HAVE GOT IT,THANKS. BUT I was not ban to come to the UK for 10 years,IT JUST HAPPENED THAT I APPLIED THE SECOND TIME IN 10 YEARS.

WHAT IS THE BEST WAY OUT FROM THIS SITUATION? WHAT WOULD YOU ADVISE?
PLEASE i REALY NEED A HELP?

SHALL I FIND A JOB FOR ANOTHER MONTH OR TWO AND THEN APPLY AGAIN OR TO APPEAL. AND WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF I LOOSE AN APPEAL?


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2013)

babushka said:


> WELL I HAVE GOT IT,THANKS. BUT I was not ban to come to the UK for 10 years,IT JUST HAPPENED THAT I APPLIED THE SECOND TIME IN 10 YEARS.
> 
> WHAT IS THE BEST WAY OUT FROM THIS SITUATION? WHAT WOULD YOU ADVISE?
> PLEASE i REALY NEED A HELP?
> ...


 If you were discovered using fake documents or misrepresentation in an application to for a UK visa you did receive a 10 year ban from the UK even if you were not aware if it. That is what the 10 year reference is to in your rejection letter.

Can you please refrain from typing in capital letters. It signifies you are shouting which is both rude and aggressive towards people who are trying to give you the benefit of their advice.


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Oh God ! I am terrribly sory for using capital letters I even didn't mean to stress my matter I just didn't press the caps lock button! I am realy, realy sorry for that. I do not take part in forums and thats why made such a rude persone of myself.
Take my appologies,please and thanks about the inf. about 10 years ban I even didnt know about that. 
And what shall I do now? Shall my husband get a lawyer in the UK?


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

babushka said:


> WELL I HAVE GOT IT,THANKS. BUT I was not ban to come to the UK for 10 years,IT JUST HAPPENED THAT I APPLIED THE SECOND TIME IN 10 YEARS.
> 
> WHAT IS THE BEST WAY OUT FROM THIS SITUATION? WHAT WOULD YOU ADVISE?
> PLEASE i REALY NEED A HELP?
> ...


Getting a new job is irrelevant to your application. You cannot apply using new information, only to clarify existing information. Besides, the ECO refused you on relationship grounds, not on employment. 

Here's what YOU need to decide - do you believe that the ECO made an INCORRECT decision in your case? You were refused mainly because the ECO did not believe your relationship was genuine. If you believe that your relationship is genuine AND you can prove it, then appeal. If you cannot prove that your relationship is genuine, you have no basis for an appeal. 

And yes, as Shel stated, whether or not you were made aware of it at the time, providing false documents results in a 10 year ban from the UK. They would have stated that to you if you had attempted to apply before those 10 years are up. 

If you lose an appeal you will have to re-apply at a later date. You lose your fees.


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Anyway the main thing is that I still have a chance even if i loose the appeal. So i will appeal definitely. Thanks for the answer i am geting more confident now.

I feуl like the following will annoy you but what they meant saying "Your circumstances in Ukraine".
thank you.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

babushka said:


> Anyway the main thing is that I still have a chance even if i loose the appeal. So i will appeal definitely. Thanks for the answer i am geting more confident now.
> 
> I feуl like the following will annoy you but what they meant saying "Your circumstances in Ukraine".
> thank you.


Don't worry about annoying us, we're not annoyed  

Hard to say entirely what they meant by that. It seems that the ECO sort of tacked that on at the end in addition to the perceived validity of your relationship. Could be that your unemployed, could be that your husband has been sending you money. Could also be that perhaps you didn't provide information about yourself - where you live, tenancy agreement, etc. Not 100% sure about that. See if someone else chimes in as well about that with some more information.


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

In general I am worried that its about me that the ECO has refused the visa if not than we will prove our relationship because it's genuine. Its that I cant understand which reasone is the main for this refusal. Can you,please tell me it in plain few words. I am not English and sometimes getting very confused with teminology.

Thanks a lot!!!!


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Thanks a lot for your help,Leanna!


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

The main reason for your refusal was that the Entry Clearance Officer did not believe that you were in a genuine marriage, and he thought that you only married your husband to enter the UK. 


On the other hand, what they mean by 'your circumstances' is:
1. Where were you born
2. Who are your parents
3. Where did you study
4. What qualifications you have (University degree, Master's degree)
5. Employment
6. Financial situation (Who supports you and how you earn money)
7. What assets do you have in your country (House, flat, car, where do you live etc..)
8. Your marital status or previous marriages (Are you married obviously and have you been divorced before)

All these questions are already on the spouse visa form, and for each question you must provide a document e.g. a birth certificate, diploma, employment details, Tax Returns etc..

They ask these questions in order to evaluate your suitability to enter the UK on a spouse visa. The UK has a huge problem with immigration and it is normal to expect that they would ask every question to see who they are letting in the country if you understand what I mean. 
If you think you have a chance to appeal, and if they said in the refusal letter that you can appeal, then do, but provide as much evidence as you can to prove your marriage is genuine. 
I wish you all the best.

I disagree however that the fact that her husband sent her money is negative. If she was the one who was sending the money then yes, but if it's the husband then I don't see why a husband can't send his wife money to support herself. Maybe I'm naive, but that's my opinion.


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Dear McUK! Thank you so much for your answer! Finaly I got it all together!!! Well I agree with you about the money as it was smth like " money support will play one of an important part into showing that you are realy a family" the problem was that I didnt translate the receipt in english but as I can see they didn't take into consideration the other docs which were in English as well.

Well about "my circumstances" I see now what has happened. But honestly I couldnt think to provide anything I wasn't asked about especialy because I gave the information in application!

And the other thing is that in a Guide to supporting documents was written "Evidence of your current employment". So if I am an unemployed at the moment I couldn't present any of the suggested docs.

In appeal shall I take the guilt of not presenting all nessesary docs because I just messed with the "guide..." or to refer like few of them were not listed.

PS Sorry my message is a bit messy but hope you understand the meaning.

Thanks a lot!! After your advices and explanations it gets clearere to me!! Thanks again for your time!


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

Also, because you tried for the easier route, an EEA Family Permit, because there is no financial requirement that your husband must meet in order to sponsor you, and he has a right under EU law to live in the UK, they apply extra measures and rules to see if you qualify, since you don't have to meet the financial requirement. 

This on the other hand, might seem unfair to you, but please consider that actual British Citizens, have to meet far more difficult criteria in order to bring their non EU partner. 

So, not to apply such scrutiny to EEA citizens would be derogatory and discriminating to Britain's own nationals, who have a very difficult time bringing their non EU spouse. 

Yes, if you are unemployed then you cannot provide evidence of employment, and you should just explain your situation in a cover letter. 
I Really hope that Jrge or Joppa will see this thread, because I don't have much knowledge about EEA Family Permits. 

Again, I'm sorry for your situation and I do hope you will be strong and go through this.


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Thanks a lot again! Well I don't want to show any disrespect to anyone who worked on my FP but I have an impression that if I wouldn't tell them all the truth they would not find it out.!!!!! they have everything in front of them but still cant see! What kind of job do they do?

And about the money, it was the last thing I could think of. Actually we think to go for oral hearing (140 pounds). hope to make this time for sure!!! 

Good night for today and many thanks again!!!

I have a plan to write tomorrow for some more advises but they will be about appeal now!!

hope to get advises!! I never realised that people can be so helpful just like that over internet.!!!!


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Please help me again!!!!
I mentioned this fact before that Eco did not send me back my spouse's original documents and they are quite important for him (like the Contract of Employment). How can I now get them back?? 

And I was full enought not to do extra copies. As a result now I simply dont have some docs to make copies of and to submitt them with my appeal.
What shall i do????


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2013)

A look on google found this UK Border Agency | Return of documents

But it does say only the owner of the document can request it, so your partner. 

There may be another way to get them returned that a UK board regular knows about.


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Thaks a lot for a reply and good news! will read now! we need them urgently but if we wont get them as quick as we want at least we will get them.

well one more guestion! IN Form IAFT-2( FP-refusal) there is a list of docs to send
-the signet and completed Appeal Form(IAFT-2)
-your notice of decision
-photocopies of any other documents in support of your support( shall i include here all the docs we have sent to ECO-like bank statements.........I mean those we haven't get back) or just write that we havent got them back by ECO's mistake??

In my refusal ECO was not satisfied with my "circumstances in Ukraine" Shall i send with the appeal form the proof of address. I have doubts abou that as I have read that no new evidences to be attached. Asking to get an advise because i can be wrong.

will appreciate any advise!


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## mehemlynn (Nov 16, 2011)

No "new evidence" means that you can't add something that would be true now, but wasn't when you applied. 

For example, if the sponsor had 5 months in the job to make the financial requirement when applied, but in the month since met the requirement because they now had 6 months, you couldn't add the 6th month (because it wasn't the case at time of application). 

The other way is if you forgot to include the work contract, that could be submitted, because it was available at the time of the application; but had not been included.

So if you are including proof of address in the Ukraine, it would have to be from when you applied.


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

got it ,thanks a lot!!!!

But If we have included Contract of employment while applying and they did not returt it to us ( actualy non docs were returned to us even we supplied them with copies) shall we somewhow let to know them that we wish to include the Contract .... but we dont have it because ECO keeps it. 

Thanks


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2013)

Your husband can request a copy of his employment contract from his employer and they 'should' provide it. May be quicker than waiting for them to be returned if you are in a hurry. Bank statements etc can be printed off the internet, requested from the bank.


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Oh, I see now. Sounds like a good plan! How couldnt we think about it earlie??? Its so messy at the moment!!! Thanks for your advises and support. I hope that my husband's presence in the cort will convince them that we do not have "a marrige of convenience"!


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Hi to everybody! Does anybody can help me with the following,please. My husband has a hearing in the court (Appeal for EEA Family Permit). He has oral hearing and got a letter with Directions but we cant understand properly the "coutr language" I mean does anybody can put it in more understanding way,please?
Directions
You must send the following documents to the Tribunal at the above address and to the other party,(to arrive) no later than 5 days before the date of Full Hearing.

App. Resp.

- Witness statements of the evidence to be called at the haering.
- - A bundle af all documents to be relied on at the hearing - these must be clearly 
page numbered,indexed and include a schedule identifying the essential 
passages.( The essential passages are any sections you consider highly
significant in you appeal.)
The Appellant must send copies of all the documents to the Respondent at Presenting officers unit,( "")
The Respondent must send copies of all the documents to the Appellant.

What I really dont understand is that we need again to prepare all the docs and send them again? ( We already send everything to the court)

(and I put dash instead of tick in "court directions").


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## skinnie58 (Apr 3, 2013)

babushka said:


> Hi to everybody! Does anybody can help me with the following,please. My husband has a hearing in the court (Appeal for EEA Family Permit). He has oral hearing and got a letter with Directions but we cant understand properly the "coutr language" I mean does anybody can put it in more understanding way,please?
> Directions
> You must send the following documents to the Tribunal at the above address and to the other party,(to arrive) no later than 5 days before the date of Full Hearing.
> 
> ...


Hi

What it all means is, whatever the reason was for the refusal, you have to prepare all your evidence to show why you dispute the refusal; if you have witness you need to have them prepare a statement that will be used in court, to back up your statement.
If you have a solicitor dealing with your case he needs to send a copy of everything including statements from your witness to the court, to you and to the Respondent, or if you are dealing with the case you need to send the copies, all this information needs to arrive at their destination at lease 5 days before your court hearing. You also have to make sure your statement and evidence are page numbered,indexed and include a schedule identifying the essential passages.( The essential passages are any sections you consider to be very important to your appeal). It may seem like you are repeating yourself but it is essential that you have a good argument to take to court along with your proof if you wish to stand a chance of winning.

Good luck:fingerscrossed:


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Hi and great thanks for a help! Got it now! 
Just one more thing "witness statements" Its like letters from friends and relatives and our families that we are trully married? Is it right? And if so should it be just formal letters with signature or verified by notary? 
Thanks.


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## skinnie58 (Apr 3, 2013)

babushka said:


> Hi and great thanks for a help! Got it now!
> Just one more thing "witness statements" Its like letters from friends and relatives and our families that we are trully married? Is it right? And if so should it be just formal letters with signature or verified by notary?
> Thanks.


I think the witness statement only applies if the witness is going to be in court with you on the day, so that the judge can cross examine them, I don't believe any other statement will do. Maybe someone else can expand on this. It should be relevant to the reason for the refusal it's not a letter it's just a statement of how they have seen things like an eye witness account, no notary needs to be involved, it can just be signed off at the end of the statement.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

If you don't understand the legal language from the tribunal, you shouldn't be appealing on your own without legal help. If you are legally represented, direct all queries to them and not to us.


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Thank you very much for the help!


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Joppa said:


> If you don't understand the legal language from the tribunal, you shouldn't be appealing on your own without legal help. If you are legally represented, direct all queries to them and not to us.


Well I am sorry for the wrong question. Will mind it for the next time!


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


babushka said:


> Well I am sorry for the wrong question. Will mind it for the next time!


It isn't the question, but the nature of it what upsets most of us. We offer free guidance in order to help people migrate from one country to another, and there isn't any monetary compensation, sometimes not even a thank you. 

Some people have already retained Solicitors/Attorneys/ and the likes; and come here to get "a second opinion". If there's a question or doubt on them, applicant(s) should then book an appointment with a more experienced professional and rightfully pay for their services. Myself, I help people here for free as life has been generous, otherwise, I'd charge £450.00 hourly. 

Good luck with your appeal, but for the record: you should have never gone that route, but should had reapplied instead.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Jrge said:


> Hi,
> 
> It isn't the question, but the nature of it what upsets most of us. We offer free guidance in order to help people migrate from one country to another, and there isn't any monetary compensation, sometimes not even a thank you.
> 
> ...


OK, I see now. Its too late now to change anything and I feel sorry that choose that way. I feel like we wont make it but at least will finnish it and will see what the next plan. Maybe we shall get a solicitor?


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Joppa said:


> If you don't understand the legal language from the tribunal, you shouldn't be appealing on your own without legal help. If you are legally represented, direct all queries to them and not to us.


 Ok I dont have any solicitor if it what was meant otherwise I would be asking him. I really looked for the help and got it ,and Thankful for it!


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Hi! I am here again looking for a help!Does anybody can explain me why do we still have a Hearing if ECO met his deadline and did not present a "Respondent's bundle" to the court. So logicaly he agreed with the fact that he is wrong but we still go to the court? (Appeal for EEA Family refusal)


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## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

It's always best to be honest, and give explanation why u didn't have the document than give a false documents.


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Pultet said:


> It's always best to be honest, and give explanation why u didn't have the document than give a false documents.


Right, thanks for the answer!


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## babushka (Mar 9, 2013)

Hi to everybody!
Just want to put an update on my case (EEU FP refuse). I did appeal on my case as I was conveinced that ECO made a mistake. We went for oral hearing and our appeal was allowed.
But in 5 days time ECO (lets say) appealed against the Court decision. Another oral hearing and this time we had a lawyer. When the judge asked if there are facts of fals docs that were presented by respondent(me) 10 years ago or any facts that we have entered a "marriage of convenience" - the answer was NO. So the appeal was not allowed. I have got an FP to the UK.
But the time we spent to get it was one year. 
And I want to Thanks to everybody who are on this site and help people. We won our first Court hearing with a huge help from this site.


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