# Spain named cheapest holiday destination for 2011



## Trubrit (Nov 24, 2010)

Well this survey by Money Which must bring cheer to the Spanish tourism industry, just wish I could see the low prices in my local supermarket.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Its possible its the cheapest to get to (my OH often flies here for under £20 inc taxes), but if you look at the price average here for everything?????????????????????? Havew you got the link?? It would be interesting to see what they're basing their headline on

The one thing I have noticed in my job (sort of tourism and I get to see base line hotel prices), hotels in Spain are cheaper than hotels in the UK, Tenerife seems to have the cheapest by far!!! But then flights to Tenerife are longer and dearer than flights to Mainland Spain!

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Its possible its the cheapest to get to (my OH often flies here for under £20 inc taxes), but if you look at the price average here for everything?????????????????????? Havew you got the link?? It would be interesting to see what they're basing their headline on
> 
> The one thing I have noticed in my job (sort of tourism and I get to see base line hotel prices), hotels in Spain are cheaper than hotels in the UK, Tenerife seems to have the cheapest by far!!! But then flights to Tenerife are longer and dearer than flights to Mainland Spain!
> 
> Jo xxx


here are a couple of links Spain named cheapest holiday destination for 2011 - Yahoo! Travel UK

Cheap summer holidays: Spain tops poll of the most affordable holiday hotspots | Mail Online

seems they are basing it on a meal out and the price of suncream, beer & fizzy drinks


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I found the link - hey only surveyed ten items which are not exactly representative of our average shopping basket, unfortunately.

"As the slow economic recovery continues to mean belt tightening for many British holidaymakers, Post Office Travel Money has put together a list which shows that money is likely to go further in Spain. Researchers compiled a list of 14 top holiday destinations and then worked out how much it would cost to buy 10 common holiday items in those places.

The items include sun cream, beer and cigarettes and the total bill for all 10 in Spain came to £42.15. The most expensive destination was Miami in Florida where the receipt added up to £92.81. Those deciding to holiday at home can expect to pay £77.01 if they stay in Brighton. The cost of the goods was 10 per cent dearer in the seaside town than last year.

The second cheapest place on the list to visit was Bulgaria where the cost of the items came to £43.50. Those deciding to travel to Brittany in the north of France can expect to pay almost double this."

Spain comes top of cheap holiday items survey | Travel News


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

**** and booze are cheap arent they and I guess (certainly the booze) are high on the list for a lot of holiday makers! Actually I'm always amazed at the price of eating out - even in the touristy bits of the costas, where once upon a time they loaded the prices down there, but now you can go along the seafront and get a full english, with all the trimmings, coffee and orange juice for well under 5€ - in fact I've seen places advertising that on a BOGOF offer (hence I often comment about how desperate bar/cafe owners seem)! Altho that may go up in the height of the season??

Jo xxx


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

I well believe that survey to be accurate. 

Compared to Eygpt, Spain works much cheaper for me. Defitely cheaper than France and Great britain, too. 

My weekly budget all year round is 250 euros for a family of four, and whilst thats a little thight for Cairo, in Spain I find that I can afford to eat out, clothes and nicer food, outings , toys. Lifestyle is just much cheaper.

I don't know about **** and alcohol. And fuel is also dear in Spain, but everything else, much much cheaper.

And when I go to Spain, I normally stay in Sanxenxo, which is supposed to be an expensive resort.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

here is the actual Post Office Report


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

I think many people must believe it, my daughters casita is already fully booked for the high season bar one week in July, she always manages to let the casita no problem but she has never been fully booked this early on in the season

Maiden


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

One thing to remember is that, as Alcalaina said, it's on ten top HOLIDAY items. It's talking about typical holiday stuff - going to the beach (suntan lotion), and going out (meal, coffee) etc. It is not talking about doing the weekly family shop, just a few holiday buys.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> One thing to remember is that, as Alcalaina said, it's on ten top HOLIDAY items. It's talking about typical holiday stuff - going to the beach (suntan lotion), and going out (meal, coffee) etc. It is not talking about doing the weekly family shop, just a few holiday buys.


yes, here's the list 

Cup of coffee
_Bar/café_

Bottle of local beer/lager
_Bar/café_

Bottle/can of Coca-Cola
_Bar/café_

Bottle of still mineral water
_Supermarket_

Suncream (factor 15)
_Supermarket_

Postcard and stamp to UK
_Tourist shop_

Insect repellent
_Supermarket_

Pack of Marlboro Lights cigarettes

English tabloid newspaper 

3 course evening meal for 2 adults
_(including one bottle of house
wine) in a local restaurant_


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

mmm isn't that the point of the survey.. Holiday prices. It can only be good news for Spain.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

MaidenScotland said:


> mmm isn't that the point of the survey.. Holiday prices. It can only be good news for Spain.


Was just pointing it out Maiden, as people get carried away and talk about the cost of living in Spain and the UK, which as you say is not the point.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I always find it odd that these lists always contain a tabloid newspaper. Whenever we go on holiday, the very last thing we want to buy is an English newspaper. Only bought one since we've lived here (7 1/2 months now) and that was a Sunday Times for 5 euros. Never again. We now just do the Evening Standard online which is free. I like free.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I guess as Spain is a tourist destination and thats one of its main industries, then it should try to encourage visitors - the cheap booze can bring over the wrong type of visitors tho!!?

Jo xxx


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

is there something wrong with the clock time on the forum? It says I'm posting these messages at around 11.20 am but where I'm sitting it is 1.20 pm....


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

thrax said:


> is there something wrong with the clock time on the forum? It says I'm posting these messages at around 11.20 am but where I'm sitting it is 1.20 pm....


It's the new cheap spain deal thrax - three hours for the price of two 

But I've got the same so it is not you 

or maybe the server has been moved overseas for cheaper rates


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

nigele2 said:


> It's the new cheap spain deal thrax - three hours for the price of two
> 
> But I've got the same so it is not you
> 
> or maybe the server has been moved overseas for cheaper rates


lol


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

jojo said:


> I guess as Spain is a tourist destination and thats one of its main industries, then it should try to encourage visitors - the cheap booze can bring over the wrong type of visitors tho!!?
> 
> Jo xxx




I don't really think that the majority of people tick cheap booze as the top of their "must have" when looking at a holiday destination. 
How can you get the wrong type of visitor? If you own a pub or club you want people who drink, if you own a restaurant you want people who like to eat out. We might not like how some behave when they have drunk too much but lots are happy to have them in their clubs and bars and it is not only expats that own these drinking establishments.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> I guess as Spain is a tourist destination and thats one of its main industries, then it should try to encourage visitors - the cheap booze can bring over the wrong type of visitors tho!!?
> 
> Jo xxx



As I've said before, promoting Spain as a 'cheap' destination won't help the Spanish economy as much of the revenue will go back to the German/British operators that dominate the package tour market. I read somewhere that these all-inclusive holidays are now very popular...not very good news for bar and restaurant owners...Many hotels now have supermarkets and night club/discos so there's no nmeed to go 'outside'.
The arithmetic is simple...slash your prices by 20% and you've got to increase trade by a much larger percentage or you're running on the spot. Somehow I don't see the visitor numbers increasing by 20% plus.
Round here it's nearly all French visitors....apart from the Madrilenos and Russians who come either to their own places or rent at silly prices.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

MaidenScotland said:


> I don't really think that the majority of people tick cheap booze as the top of their "must have" when looking at a holiday destination.
> How can you get the wrong type of visitor?


?
There is a certain type of tourist whose main criteria is cheap drink Maiden. Normally a group of young people type holiday. It's one of the things the 18-30 holiday group (don't know if it is still running) was famous for. Not the majority, but a noisy enough number.
So, what you get is lots of young, out of control, drunk people vomitting and peeing everywhere. As you say, great for the bar owners - for 5 minutes. It clears out all other tourist trade and locals are not likely to be seen in the area either. This is why it's "the wrong kind of visitor"
Haven't you heard of the kind of fame, rightly or wrongly that the Spanish Costas and the islands have, or had espacially in the 80's and 90's? I think that is what Jojo was referring to in her post


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Yes they are still going strong...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> ?
> There is a certain type of tourist whose main criteria is cheap drink Maiden. Normally a group of young people type holiday. It's one of the things the 18-30 holiday group (don't know if it is still running) was famous for. Not the majority, but a noisy enough number.
> So, what you get is lots of young, out of control, drunk people vomitting and peeing everywhere. As you say, great for the bar owners - for 5 minutes. It clears out all other tourist trade and locals are not likely to be seen in the area either. This is why it's "the wrong kind of visitor"
> Haven't you heard of the kind of fame, rightly or wrongly that the Spanish Costas and the islands have, or had espacially in the 80's and 90's? I think that is what Jojo was referring to in her post


Did you see the write-up for SalouFest 2011? I apologise for the Daily Mail link but I saw similar pictures on Spanish TV, with predictable commentary. The festival involves 5000+ British university students who come to a small Spanish resort on the Costa Dorada apparently to take part in sport. I would call this the "wrong sort of tourism", and I'm no prude.



















Saloufest shows worst of British as students wreak havoc | Mail Online


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

thrax said:


> is there something wrong with the clock time on the forum? It says I'm posting these messages at around 11.20 am but where I'm sitting it is 1.20 pm....


But yours and Nigels posts say the right time on the top??????????

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Did you see the write-up for SalouFest 2011? I apologise for the Daily Mail link but I saw similar pictures on Spanish TV, with predictable commentary. The festival involves 5000+ British university students who come to a small Spanish resort on the Costa Dorada apparently to take part in sport. I would call this the "wrong sort of tourism", and I'm no prude.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


one of my students has gone

I think that might be his bum



or is it a girl????


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> But yours and Nigels posts say the right time on the top??????????
> 
> Jo xxx


they say the right time on mine, too

they need tochange their settings in UserCP I think


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> one of my students has gone
> 
> I think that might be his bum


..... and how would you know that hhmmmmm?????????

jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> ..... and how would you know that hhmmmmm?????????
> 
> jo xxx


he's on my facebook


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

surely you mean your bumbook?????


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> they say the right time on mine, too
> 
> they need tochange their settings in UserCP I think


I've never had to change any settings on User CP before and I just had a look but can't see anything obvious. My time on posts is still 2 hours out


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

jojo said:


> ..... and how would you know that hhmmmmm?????????
> 
> jo xxx


Sadly my youngest daughter has been for the last three years on the pretext of playing hockey. After last years mess she told me it is going to be cancelled but we'll see; I reckon the authorities will turn a blind eye because they need the money. Even if it is cancelled in Salou, some other tourist hotspot will volunteer their services.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

thrax said:


> I've never had to change any settings on User CP before and I just had a look but can't see anything obvious. My time on posts is still 2 hours out


what do you have the time settings on?

mine is on _GMT+1_ & _detect__ DST automatically_


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> what do you have the time settings on?
> 
> mine is on _GMT+1_ & _detect__ DST automatically_



Mines on GMT+2 LOL!!! It says "All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:37 PM."

Jo xxx


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Ok done that and this post is to see if the time is now correct, although I have never had to change it before. And I still think you don't mean he was on facebook, more likely to be on bumbook!!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Did you see the write-up for SalouFest 2011? I apologise for the Daily Mail link but I saw similar pictures on Spanish TV, with predictable commentary. The festival involves 5000+ British university students who come to a small Spanish resort on the Costa Dorada apparently to take part in sport. I would call this the "wrong sort of tourism", and I'm no prude.


And this is the link to the thread about it from last year. It's included in the first post.

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...52782-fines-wearing-bikini-streets-salou.html

What I don't understand is that Salou tourism positively encourages this festival, but has also come up with fines for wearing beach wear in the street. So the conclusion is that you can dispaly your bum in someone's face in a bar, but can't walk around in a swim suit?? Mars bar to the first one who spots the stupid mistake/ double standards/ incongruency in that one!

Have blocked out the photos - can't bear to see them.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

thrax said:


> Ok done that and this post is to see if the time is now correct, although I have never had to change it before. And I still think you don't mean he was on facebook, more likely to be on bumbook!!!


so is it right then??

& no - I def mean facebook


is there a bumbook


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> so is it right then??
> 
> & no - I def mean facebook
> 
> ...


well there might be after that picture. I've never understood the practice of mooning. Doesn't do anything for me and it is just vulgar, but each to his or her own, I guess


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> so is it right then??
> 
> & no - I def mean facebook
> 
> ...


But...
how can you recognise your students bum from a photo on facebook is the leading question xabiachica?
Just what kind of pictures do you have on Facebook!!?

PS That may be the next spin off from the Saloufest.
Bumbook, the place to put your photos of the the Saloufest, 'cos not many of those photos are of faces, are they?!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> But...
> how can you recognise your students bum from a photo on facebook is the leading question xabiachica?
> Just what kind of pictures do you have on Facebook!!?
> 
> ...


:focus: As long as it doesn't become an obligatory feature of the new Lounge ...


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> :focus: As long as it doesn't become an obligatory feature of the new Lounge ...


I may never visit the lounge (and I confess I voted without seeing it) but I will definitely drink to that. Where's my glass?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> But...
> how can you recognise your students bum from a photo on facebook is the leading question xabiachica?
> Just what kind of pictures do you have on Facebook!!?
> 
> ...


he's a bodybuilder

they're on his, not mine:eyebrows:


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

OK you're a mod so I believe you, really I do, I do, I do


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

thrax said:


> I may never visit the lounge (and I confess I voted without seeing it) but I will definitely drink to that. Where's my glass?


but we haven't got our lounge yet

anyway - is your clock right now??


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Re the wrong type of visitors..

I was talking the other day to a wealthier cairene woman who spent her honeymoon in Malaga. I have never been in Malaga, in fact I don't know the south of Spain very well (apart from Sevilla and Granada, which I love) so I don't know what it's like and what goes on in there. When I asked her, she then proceded to describe how her choice of destination had ruined her honeymoon and that she would never return to Spain. 

Amongst other things, she said it was cheap, sleazy, vulgar and full of drunken, intoxicated and embarrasing visitors. 

Not a place I would want to visit myself, actually. 

Spain has the history, arquitecture and natural beauty to be a glorious destination, and instead, it appears that some places have chosen the wrong end of the market, thus being encouraged to act as the affordable yet vulgar european and brits adults playground and shying away the more classy and prone to spend tourists.

I believe that some exclusive international resorts such as Banyan tree or Four Seasons have been eyeing some parts of Spain to open luxury resorts in 2013/14 , and whilst I am not particularly keen on international names operating in Spain, I hope that something good will come out and that this will attract other kind of turisits. In the mean time, it appears that my little paradise up north is both cheap and classy, and unknown by the cheaper end of the holiday market! I hope it stays that way. 

THere as another positive from the crisis, and is that spanish are not travelling abrad as they used to 
(the spanish market in Egypt used to be huge only two years ago, and now they aren't coming anymore) . Spaniards are spending their holidays in Spain, thus contributing to the local economy. That's good news, for they time being.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Sonrisa said:


> Re the wrong type of visitors..
> 
> I was talking the other day to a wealthier cairene woman who spent her honeymoon in Malaga. I have never been in Malaga, in fact I don't know the south of Spain very well (apart from Sevilla and Granada, which I love) so I don't know what it's like and what goes on in there. When I asked her, she then proceded to describe how her choice of destination had ruined her honeymoon and that she would never return to Spain.
> 
> ...


I think that's how many more discerning people in the UK view some parts of the Costas and they aren't wrong. Whether it's cheap holidays in resorts such as Salou, Torrremolinos or Benidorm or the flashier, more expensive resorts such as Puerto Banus or Sotogrande, there is an association with drunken, vulgar behaviour which however much it costs is decidely down-market in many people's eyes.
It's not just the Costas either. Barcelona is getting a reputation as a haven for stags and other group ventures. This reputation has done no good to Prague, Dublin and Krakow and it seems that the Barcelona authorities are trying to get a grip of the situation there.
I keep banging on about the need for Spain to go up-market and promote quality not because I'm wealthy - I'm not - but because slashing prices will not bring in the revenue and will merely consolidate the 'cheap but cheerful' reputation that does no good to the tourist industry.
Of course not all of the Costas are ruined by horrible developments and there are quiet, attractive parts to resorts such as Mijas and Torrevieja. But polishing up the image and promoting quality will have a general knock-on effect on life in general in the heavily-populated immigrant areas.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I work in the tourist industry (sort of lol) and, call it generalising, stereotyping etc, but when I speak to someone on the phone who sounds fairly well spoken and affluent, mention the "Costa del Sol" and they do not want to know. They'd sooner pay more money and go somewhere else! Its a shame that it has that image, which is constantly being perpetuated, cos there are some lovely parts. It isnt all lager louts and bad behaviour. There are known areas for that and there are other areas that are more civilized!

Jo xxx


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

jojo said:


> I work in the tourist industry (sort of lol) and, call it generalising, stereotyping etc, but when I speak to someone on the phone who sounds fairly well spoken and affluent, mention the "Costa del Sol" and they do not want to know. They'd sooner pay more money and go somewhere else! Its a shame that it has that image, which is constantly being perpetuated, cos there are some lovely parts. It isnt all lager louts and bad behaviour. There are known areas for that and there are other areas that are more civilized!
> 
> Jo xxx


So good she posted it twice!! My clock is now working properly and I think Malaga is a beautiful city, full of culture, some amazing architecture and, outside of the middle of summer, full of interesting, friendly and warm people.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Our area is investing in rural tourism: converting old cattle-drover trails into off-road cycle tracks, laying out signposted hikes in the mountains, building visitor centres in natural parks, putting on summer camps for environmental education, etc. It is now really starting to take off, there are definitely more cyclists coming through this year and local bookings for accommodation are picking up. A few of these visitors are British but they are mainly from Northern Europe.

We also get a lot of retired English couples in hire cars doing the "Rutas" - we are on several of these, the Ruta de Pueblo Blancos, Ruta del Toro etc. They also love the old cities like Jerez and Cadiz.

The Costa de la Luz has escaped the excesses of the other Costas. Spanish families pack the beaches in summer, but Northern Europeans come all year round to play golf or go birdwatching. There are very few nightclubs, but chiringitos and beach parties are popular amongst the kids. Lorries come round and hoover up all the debris early next morning, so by the time the families appear on the beach it´s all nice and clean.

So it is possible to have a thriving tourist industry without providing for the "wrong sort of tourist". Maybe not as lucrative, but the clean-up costs must be a lot lower and the locals don´t have to move out!


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

I don't like drunken louts the same as everyone else, however people were/are happy to serve them alcohol all day long and people who do this sort of thing find booze wherever the go.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> I don't like drunken louts the same as everyone else, however people were/are happy to serve them alcohol all day long and people who do this sort of thing find booze wherever the go.


There are many great things about partying in Spain. Booze is cheap and served at all hours, quantities are not measured , there is little control about underaged drinking, unlike Dubai, you are unlikely to be thrown (and murdered) in Jail for drinking and misbehaving in public, unlike some asian spots, the health services are well capable of dealing with the scores of intoxicated kids every night. 
I can't imagine what the locals think, but my guess is that they are quite happy at getting a quick profit out of these hooligans. 

The cheaper it gets, the more trouble makers it will attract.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

MaidenScotland said:


> I don't like drunken louts the same as everyone else, however people were/are happy to serve them alcohol all day long and people who do this sort of thing find booze wherever the go.


But not always, not everywhere and not all the time.

I think Spain will always have it's cheap and cheerful sector. That's what works for many people and if the locals can cope with it behaviour wise, milk it, and it _*doesn't invade the tourisism sector to the degree it did in the past,*_ ie ALL parties get smth out of it, well why not?

But times move on, and so does Spain bit by bit. New markets are expanding now. If it's not being advertised in your area, go out and find it!!

Below copy and paste from this thread http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-living-spain/69137-will-tourism-recover.html

check out the alternatives



Well, it has been advertising itself in a "different" way for quite some time now
Green Spain in Spain | Tourism in Spain | Spain.info in english

This was the 2010 campaign which, although still includes plenty of beach scenes (especially the first ad - get to the last few) also shows the Prado, Camino de Santiago, the Alhambra, football, golf...





Over the years turismo rural has become huge.
Casas rurales en España. Toprural

Also spas,Balnearios, Hoteles, SPA y Talasoterapia en España Portugal y Andorra | SPA Natura 

wine tourism Asociación Española de Enoturismo y Turismo Gastronómico

and golf (Unfortunately. Most of the areas that promote golf don't have adequate water supplies and will do long term damage to the environment. Look at this Impact of golf courses: social, environmental and economic). 


Many of these markets, notably rural turism attract a mainly Spanish market. Prices are good and quality is high.

That's where I hope tourism in Spain is going for the time being __________________


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Sonrisa said:


> There are many great things about partying in Spain. Booze is cheap and served at all hours, quantities are not measured , there is little control about underaged drinking, unlike Dubai, you are unlikely to be thrown (and murdered) in Jail for drinking and misbehaving in public, unlike some asian spots, the health services are well capable of dealing with the scores of intoxicated kids every night.
> I can't imagine what the locals think, but my guess is that they are quite happy at getting a quick profit out of these hooligans.
> 
> The cheaper it gets, the more trouble makers it will attract.




Spain has encouraged what is being called the wrong type of tourist. When you own a bar/club/hotel the only type of customer you don't want is one that doesn't spend money. 
The hundred of thousands of hotel rooms have to be filled including the cheap and cheerful ones, so aiming for a more exclusive Spain .. what happens to all these cheap and cheerful rooms? People who can't afford exclusive type holidays have they to go elsewhere?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> Spain has encouraged what is being called the wrong type of tourist. When you own a bar/club/hotel the only type of customer you don't want is one that doesn't spend money.
> The hundred of thousands of hotel rooms have to be filled including the cheap and cheerful ones, so aiming for a more exclusive Spain .._ what happens to all these cheap and cheerful rooms?_ People who can't afford exclusive type holidays have they to go elsewhere?


Fill them with pensioners, especially over the winter! Replace the lager louts with Saga louts, and the nightclubs with bingo halls.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Fill them with pensioners, especially over the winter! Replace the lager louts with Saga louts, and the nightclubs with bingo halls.




They are filled with pensioners over the winter.. just go to any of the Costas and you will see this, bars, clubs etc simply want people who spend money.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> Spain has encouraged what is being called the wrong type of tourist. When you own a bar/club/hotel the only type of customer you don't want is one that doesn't spend money.
> The hundred of thousands of hotel rooms have to be filled including the cheap and cheerful ones, so aiming for a more exclusive Spain .. what happens to all these cheap and cheerful rooms? People who can't afford exclusive type holidays have they to go elsewhere?


That's a good point, most business certainly need the money. 
I cannot speak for myself because I don't know the coast resorts well, but in most cases, more discerning tourists dont' like to mix with the cheap and cheerful, drink all you can kind of visitors, and if a country earns itself the reputation of being sleazy, it will be difficult to drive the prices back up when demand finally picks up, if it does.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Sonrisa said:


> That's a good point, most business certainly need the money.
> I cannot speak for myself because I don't know the coast resorts well, but in most cases, more discerning tourists dont' like to mix with the cheap and cheerful, drink all you can kind of visitors, and if a country earns itself the reputation of being sleazy, it will be difficult to drive the prices back up when demand finally picks up, if it does.




I don't drink but have to admit I love the Costas and no bar will ever pay their rent on what I put over their counter. The wrong type of tourist lol they are not the wrong type to people trying to keep their businesses afloat.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

MaidenScotland said:


> I don't drink but have to admit I love the Costas and no bar will ever pay their rent on what I put over their counter. The wrong type of tourist lol they are not the wrong type to people trying to keep their businesses afloat.


I understand what you're saying Maiden and that's certainly the trap that much of the costas and Baleric islands got into. However, some of them have seen over the years that they don't like their hotels getting trashed every year and that as much as the atititude of "bring 'em on if their spending" keeps them going for a while, in the end it will drive away almost every other kind of tourist. Before the crisis the costas were turning back to the Spanish family tourist. Now it's probably whoever they can get through the door.
The Baleric islands have kind of stuck with the drug/ nightclub set, be it Spanish or foreign, and I think it's well out of control. It seems that the many areas and big businesses are foreign owned and they market the non stop nightlife abroad and rake the money in. The locals are either pushed out or pushed in to the same kind of set ups.

BUT there really are a lot of alternatives and other tourism areas really are booming, both with Spanish and foreign clients.

And, as Jojo said, there are still parts of the south that are beautiful spots and there are even more up north. I really would encourage people to go out there and explore all different parts of Spain. It won't disappoint


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> I don't drink but have to admit I love the Costas and no bar will ever pay their rent on what I put over their counter. The wrong type of tourist lol they are not the wrong type to people trying to keep their businesses afloat.


I remember reading a small article las week about how thrilled the local business men/women were at having all the university students getting pissed during the sports festival. They even referred to it as their "mini-august"

Obviously for the bar owners this is the right type of visitors, but bringing prices down is never a good idea, no matter how desperate business are.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Sonrisa said:


> I remember reading a small article las week about how thrilled the local business men/women were at having all the university students getting pissed during the sports festival. They even referred to it as their "mini-august"
> 
> Obviously for the bar owners this is the right type of visitors, but bringing prices down is never a good idea, no matter how desperate business are.


The simple arithmetic tells the story: last year, tourist numbers overall in the more popular Spanish resorts were up by a mere 1% on the previous year's (poor) figures. 
Prices were slashed by an average of 20%. 
No wonder that the real picture is of bars, restaurants and tourist-orientated businesses closing. Of course the hoteliers and tour promoters won't tell you that...it's not in their interest to do so. I hear stories most days of people losing their jobs and the season has yet to begin.
You cannot keep going in business forever by slashing prices unless you have a MASSIVE increase in business and then you'll probably need more staff so your overheads will increase.
But the huge numbers aren't happening in reality. 
As for filling hotels etc. in winter with pensioners...that idea has been doing the rounds for years.
The fact is that many older people have a lot more disposable income than the young these days. They aren't content with these hi-de-hi type three month long winter sojourns in dreary winter resorts. They (WE) demand quality and variety. I would personally rather stay home for my holiday and take long walks if I couldn't afford a good hotel in a 'nice' area. 
When I was young I was told we were too poor to afford anything 'cheap'. If we spent our scarce money it was on things of quality, things that had to last, whether in reality or as happy memories.
We have come to believe that a holiday in the sun is an entitlement, which of course it isn't.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

It sticks in my head a comment made by a young russian chap I got chatting to on the train here a while ago. We were talking about tourists of all nationalities in Spain and he said "The difference between British and other nationalities, is that poor, uneducated British can afford to go holiday in other countries, while the poor uneducated from other nationalities cant" Hisa words not mine, but does he have a point????????

Jo xxxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> It sticks in my head a comment made by a young russian chap I got chatting to on the train here a while ago. We were talking about tourists of all nationalities in Spain and he said "The difference between British and other nationalities, is that poor, uneducated British can afford to go holiday in other countries, while the poor uneducated from other nationalities cant" Hisa words not mine, but does he have a point????????
> 
> Jo xxxx


I think it´s more likely that they can´t afford to go on holiday in Britain! It´s cheaper to take a family of four on a package holiday in Spain than to Butlins, apparently.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> I think it´s more likely that they can´t afford to go on holiday in Britain! It´s cheaper to take a family of four on a package holiday in Spain than to Butlins, apparently.




About 5 years ago I took my grandchildren to Butlins Bogner Regis for a week at Easter.. it cost me just under one thousand pounds self catering, ok I took the best apartment available but that was still one heck of a lot of money. Butlins no longer do everything is free, there were 5 rides? for free everything else had to be paid for.
I have to say my grandchildren loved it and if you ask them today what has been there best holiday they will tell you Butlins.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

btw... my grandchildren have decided that we are going to Benidorm for our break lol


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> I think it´s more likely that they can´t afford to go on holiday in Britain! It´s cheaper to take a family of four on a package holiday in Spain than to Butlins, apparently.


And when you think deeply about that, it tells a lot.....

If it's true which, with prices being drastically cut, it could well be.
Anyone who has run/owned a business will tell you that if you cut costs, something has to go...perhaps fewer staff so reduced quality of service,maybe cheaper ingredients for catering or maintenance not done regularly so tatty surroundings, fixtures and fittings....
If less money is going in the till then your profit margin will be squeezed to the point where you are a 'busy fool', as my OH used to describe businesses which tried to compete on cheapness and nearly always failed.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

It's easy to sit and say what people should be doing or not doing in their businesses but the fact is there are tens of thousands of small businesses in Spain who have no option but to let staff go, have tatty surroundings etc.. what are they supposed to do when they are just covering their costs and they have sunk all their money into their dream in the sun?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

MaidenScotland said:


> btw... my grandchildren have decided that we are going to Benidorm for our break lol


good plan

when are you going?

and how long for?


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> good plan
> 
> when are you going?
> 
> and how long for?




Probably May and for 4 or 5 days.... not got definite dates sorted yet.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

MaidenScotland said:


> It's easy to sit and say what people should be doing or not doing in their businesses but the fact is there are tens of thousands of small businesses in Spain who have no option but to let staff go, have tatty surroundings etc.. what are they supposed to do when they are just covering their costs and they have sunk all their money into their dream in the sun?


Very true I think. The people as individuals and families are fighting for survival.

Quality tourism needs medium if not long term investment.

The families cannot raise money to invest but equally they cannot quit because they would get nothing. Better cleaning up after drunks drinking cheap beer and vomiting everywhere than begging in the streets.

And the state cannot invest because it is broke.

And the rich spanish will not invest because they may be b******s but they are not stupid.

My neighbour, 70+ lady has just come back from 3 days in Barcelona. £85 including flight and hotel. Dinner was £5 a night extra. Apart from getting stuck in a loo in a village bar when the handle came off in her hand  she had a great time. The plane was not full going out and half empty coming back. 

Wonder how much Spain made from that? 

At least the end must be near.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

nigele2 said:


> Very true I think. The people as individuals and families are fighting for survival.
> 
> Quality tourism needs medium if not long term investment.
> 
> ...




Spain would have airport tax.. spending money, the chance that your neighbour may come back.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

MaidenScotland said:


> Spain would have airport tax.. spending money, the chance that your neighbour may come back.


Although my neighbour is on a pension she will certainly return at those prices while she is able but if Spain benefited by £25 a person per day (revenue not profit) I'd be surprised. As Mary rightly points out that is not sustainable.

Certainly the decline of Spain will allow many such people of northern Europe to take advantage in addition to those looking for a good night out


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

MaidenScotland said:


> It's easy to sit and say what people should be doing or not doing in their businesses but the fact is there are tens of thousands of small businesses in Spain who have no option but to let staff go, have tatty surroundings etc.. what are they supposed to do when they are just covering their costs and they have sunk all their money into their dream in the sun?


Simple brutal answer: they have to face failure, just like businesses big and small all over Europe.
They have to do what we did when we were in business...either sit it out adopting the best strategies available or decide you've had enough and sell up - which we decided to do. 
The harsh fact is that when you decide to go into business you are taking a huge risk. Some people are better judges of risk than others and succeed, some are foolish, some are plain unlucky.
Sometimes all the hard work you've put into an enterprise comes to nothing, which must be heartbreaking.
People like me whose salaries were paid by the taxpayer are -or were - shielded from the daily necessity of having to earn money from paying customers who can choose to patronise your establishment or another before you can pay your staff or yourself. My ideas about private enterprise changed drastically when my OH bought her company.
What is happening in Spain is nothing new, it's just the scale that is staggering.
Some people who own businesses will survive either through luck or judgment. Others will fail, some because of sheer bad luck, others through folly....too many dreams and not enough market research, capital or plain common sense.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Simple brutal answer: they have to face failure, just like businesses big and small all over Europe.
> They have to do what we did when we were in business...either sit it out adopting the best strategies available or decide you've had enough and sell up - which we decided to do.
> The harsh fact is that when you decide to go into business you are taking a huge risk. Some people are better judges of risk than others and succeed, some are foolish, some are plain unlucky.
> Sometimes all the hard work you've put into an enterprise comes to nothing, which must be heartbreaking.
> ...


But Mary I think you would agree you have to have a playing field to play the game. Even an uneven playing field is better than no playing field at all. These people cannot sell up, cannot quit and get a job, cannot live off state benefit. You and I in our lives had opportunity. I think your average Spaniard asks no more.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Simple brutal answer: they have to face failure, just like businesses big and small all over Europe.
> They have to do what we did when we were in business...either sit it out adopting the best strategies available or decide you've had enough and sell up - which we decided to do.
> The harsh fact is that when you decide to go into business you are taking a huge risk. Some people are better judges of risk than others and succeed, some are foolish, some are plain unlucky.
> Sometimes all the hard work you've put into an enterprise comes to nothing, which must be heartbreaking.
> ...




exactly they are sitting it out and trying attract the type of tourist you don't want.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

MaidenScotland said:


> exactly they are sitting it out and trying attract the type of tourist you don't want.


So in the end they will either survive or go under.
There's no room for sentiment in modern business life, sadly.
But the price slashers are not on the whole small Spanish/immigrant businesses, are they. It's the multi-national tour operators who are doing that because they can afford to because of size. 
I would imagine that most beach bars, small restaurants etc. are already operating with smaller margins.
These giant operators are the main culprits in 'setting the tone' of mass tourism.
Mainly foreign owned, they are now pioneering the inclusive package which aqlmost completely shuts out the small bar owner - why go looking for a chiringuito when your drink is free by the hotel pool?
Small companies focusing on hobby or activity-based tourism in the main use smaller, more up-market hotels and guest houses. Their clients are more likely to patronise local facilities and less likely to spew up and bare their backsides in the streets. They will put more money into local economies.
This kind of tourism is surely a better option but will take years to grow to a significant market share.


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