# The Dark side of Dubai



## Zayfran (Jul 19, 2015)

The dark side of Dubai - Johann Hari - Commentators - The Independent

Sensationalistic BS?


----------



## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

Yep.

Most of what is said isn't far from what happens, but I don't for a second believe that the journalist left his hotel room and spoke to any of the people he supposedly interviewed.

Since that article, he has been exposed for fabricating interviews.

It's a shame, as I would like a journalist to actually investigate all of these things properly.


----------



## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Blast from the past! I remember when the article first came out and did the rounds among the expat circles, which was a lot smaller in 2009. People were trying to track down Karen Andrews as enough information was given in the article that it wouldn't have been too difficult, but no one found her.

Variations of everything that's mentioned has happened to some degree in Dubai. No one denies it. But what's important is to not also single out Dubai. All of what's described happens in quite a few other places as well, India, Thailand, Indonesia, Africa and you name it, all have corruption and oppressed workers and heavily indebted executives. 

And a lot of people have done extremely well by Dubai. People of all nationalities and origins.


----------



## rsinner (Feb 3, 2009)

Well, blast from the past indeed. Read this when I first landed about 6 years ago.


----------



## helsgaub (Jun 11, 2015)

Hmmm, regarding the Karen Andrews story. Perhaps she should of familiarised herself with local law instead of making assumptions about the debt.


----------



## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

She didn't exist.....the writer fabricated her. 



helsgaub said:


> Hmmm, regarding the Karen Andrews story. Perhaps she should of familiarised herself with local law instead of making assumptions about the debt.


----------



## Zayfran (Jul 19, 2015)

TallyHo said:


> And a lot of people have done extremely well by Dubai. People of all nationalities and origins.


Yep. I'm not defending anything but to be fair your comparison isn't really apt.



rsinner said:


> Well, blast from the past indeed. Read this when I first landed about 6 years ago.


Have you liked your time there? I see your location is Abu Dhabi. Have you checked out Yas anytime?


----------



## helsgaub (Jun 11, 2015)

TallyHo said:


> She didn't exist.....the writer fabricated her.


Yeah, I've read the whole article now. Such fiction.


----------



## T'challa_Udaku (Nov 14, 2014)

What ever happened to the property tycoon who was featured in that piers Morgan doc who bought the Britain island? Last I heard he got jailed and lost everything.


----------



## Edino (Sep 22, 2013)

helsgaub said:


> Yeah, I've read the whole article now. Such fiction.


Some of it maybe fiction as illustration purposes... but that dark world exists and is bigger than some will realize; do not be fooled..


----------



## cfposi (Jun 12, 2015)

Edino said:


> Some of it maybe fiction as illustration purposes... but that dark world exists and is bigger than some will realize; do not be fooled..


Do tell....


----------



## Edino (Sep 22, 2013)

CF Posi: Do tell.... 


Once I am retired and living on the beach elsewhere....


(I forgot to use the "reply with qoute option" ... blame it on lack of coffee)


----------



## cfposi (Jun 12, 2015)

Edino said:


> CF Posi: Do tell....
> 
> 
> Once I am retired and living on the beach elsewhere....
> ...


Awww....no fun!


----------



## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

T'challa_Udaku said:


> What ever happened to the property tycoon who was featured in that piers Morgan doc who bought the Britain island? Last I heard he got jailed and lost everything.


Quraishi something? He got out in the end and appears on Arabian Business/7DAYS every couple of months boasting about the next scheme he's going to invest all his money in. Doesn't look like he's going to learn his lesson.


----------



## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Why isn't it apt?

Exploitation of people happens everywhere all over the developing world. Thailand certainly has had recent problems with human trafficking. Labourers in India aren't treated fairly and squarely.

Of course none of it justifies anything that goes on in Dubai but singling out this city whilst ignoring other places is a bit unfair. I'm not addressing you solely but for a while there was a seemingly ceaseless series of anti-Dubai commentaries in various European papers where it was clear the writers were greatly exaggerating the dark sides of Dubai.



Zayfran said:


> Yep. I'm not defending anything but to be fair your comparison isn't really apt.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you liked your time there? I see your location is Abu Dhabi. Have you checked out Yas anytime?


----------



## Zayfran (Jul 19, 2015)

^ I thought it wasn't apt because the U.A.E is not a developing country. Their residents have living standards that are better than many industrialized nations and they can afford to pay labour well and easily have the funds to set up structures to combat this. Their brothers bought a world cup for fk's sake. 

It also isn't apt because labourers in 'Africa', Indonesia, India etc are actually paid for what they do and are free to leave whenever they want. More importantly they have social mobility if not for themselves then definitely for their children. It is why cities in booming countries are filled with immigrants from rural backgrounds. The 'slums' as they are disdainfully called might have lots wrong with them but there is also a tangible sense of belief that if you work your ass off you can make something for yourself. All this is missing for the labourers in Dubai. All this is too serious for a Thursday night but.

I found the flip side to the article, over the top in the other direction lol, Some guy called Jim Crane. Ah well, at least Dubai won't be boring.
_
In the 1950s, with a few thousand souls scraping a living in a waterless desert by picking dates, diving for pearls, or sailing in wooden dhows to trade with Iran and India, Dubai was as poor as any village in Somalia or Sudan. Today freewheeling Dubai is everything the Arab world isn't. It's capitalism on cocaine. Las Vagas without the gambling but twice the prostitutes. It's the fastest-growing city in the world, with an economy that outpaced China's last year while luring more tourists than all of India. It's one of the world's safest places, but a stone's throw from its most dangerous. Shimmering skyscrapers hide gritty 24-hour construction at ground level. The city's name has become a metaphor for the lush life, where celebrities like Tiger Woods and George Clooney mingle in gilded splendor and where so many luxury cars cram the roads that one is sometimes treated to the spectacle of Porsche-only crashes. Yet the city is beset by a backwash of bad design, savage treatment of the environment and labor practices that veers close to slavery. _


----------



## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

I dare say you're looking for an argument and confirmation of your preconceived notions of Dubai .

As with anything, the truth is murkier and much more boring.

Despite the veneers of modernity the UAE is still a developing country. And you need to take a long, hard look at what goes on in other countries, including your own home nation, before critiquing the UAE. 





Zayfran said:


> ^ I thought it wasn't apt because the U.A.E is not a developing country. Their residents have living standards that are better than many industrialized nations and they can afford to pay labour well and easily have the funds to set up structures to combat this. Their brothers bought a world cup for fk's sake.
> 
> It also isn't apt because labourers in 'Africa', Indonesia, India etc are actually paid for what they do and are free to leave whenever they want. More importantly they have social mobility if not for themselves then definitely for their children. It is why cities in booming countries are filled with immigrants from rural backgrounds. The 'slums' as they are disdainfully called might have lots wrong with them but there is also a tangible sense of belief that if you work your ass off you can make something for yourself. All this is missing for the labourers in Dubai. All this is too serious for a Thursday night but.
> 
> ...


----------



## Zayfran (Jul 19, 2015)

Eh? I don't have any pre-conceived nations about Dubai. I think it's going to be amazing. Where else can you drive an F3 car for ~2000 Dhs? 

This doesn't mean we have to simply turn a blind eye to it's faults or point fingers the other way. I've lived in Botswana and my home country so I'm more than aware of their problems but I just gave you one if not the most important difference between them and the U.A.E which you ignored.

Let's be honest. The U.A.E is not a emerging country in the traditional sense like China, India or Brazil. The Emiratis and Qataris have enough funds to solve this problem overnight if they actually wanted but they're more than happy to maintain the status-quo and continue getting buildings built for free. They need a kick up their a** from the international community and Qatar definitely needs to be stripped of the world cup.

That said what's your take on the indoor ski mall?


----------



## QOFE (Apr 28, 2013)

Zayfran-

You're just a wind-up merchant with a huge chip on your shoulder. If India treats their workers so well and it's such a wonderful country- perhaps you should live and work there.

"buildings built for free"? :confused2:

Qatar is a different kettle of fish. Perhaps you should write about your grievances on a Qatar forum.


----------



## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
Any members that write negative comments about Dubai - that still live in Dubai - would be advised to familiarise themselves with the UAE online laws that forbid defamation of people and companies.
People have been jailed in the UAE for writing negative comments about their UAE employer online.
Cheers
Steve


----------



## msbettyboopdxb (Mar 22, 2009)

Zayfran said:


> ^ I thought it wasn't apt because the U.A.E is not a developing country. Their residents have living standards that are better than many industrialized nations and they can afford to pay labour well and easily have the funds to set up structures to combat this. Their brothers bought a world cup for fk's sake. It also isn't apt because labourers in 'Africa', Indonesia, India etc are actually paid for what they do and are free to leave whenever they want. More importantly they have social mobility if not for themselves then definitely for their children. It is why cities in booming countries are filled with immigrants from rural backgrounds. The 'slums' as they are disdainfully called might have lots wrong with them but there is also a tangible sense of belief that if you work your ass off you can make something for yourself. All this is missing for the labourers in Dubai. All this is too serious for a Thursday night but. I found the flip side to the article, over the top in the other direction lol, Some guy called Jim Crane. Ah well, at least Dubai won't be boring. In the 1950s, with a few thousand souls scraping a living in a waterless desert by picking dates, diving for pearls, or sailing in wooden dhows to trade with Iran and India, Dubai was as poor as any village in Somalia or Sudan. Today freewheeling Dubai is everything the Arab world isn't. It's capitalism on cocaine. Las Vagas without the gambling but twice the prostitutes. It's the fastest-growing city in the world, with an economy that outpaced China's last year while luring more tourists than all of India. It's one of the world's safest places, but a stone's throw from its most dangerous. Shimmering skyscrapers hide gritty 24-hour construction at ground level. The city's name has become a metaphor for the lush life, where celebrities like Tiger Woods and George Clooney mingle in gilded splendor and where so many luxury cars cram the roads that one is sometimes treated to the spectacle of Porsche-only crashes. Yet the city is beset by a backwash of bad design, savage treatment of the environment and labor practices that veers close to slavery.


Trying to get deported, uhn? Have a safe flight home.....


----------



## msbettyboopdxb (Mar 22, 2009)

I'd also like to know how to get a building built for free please. I could use a free building before my rent comes up for renewal. Thanks.


----------



## Zayfran (Jul 19, 2015)

QOFE said:


> You're just a wind-up merchant


Heh, why would anyone get wound up over some questions that are not personal nor insulting? 

As for the 'free part' :



> some employers *continued to withhold wages and benefits from workers, failed to reimburse recruiting fees, confiscated worker passports,* and housed workers in substandard accommodation. The government summarily deported Saadiyat workers who went on strike to protest low pay after their employers contacted the police. Despite significant and laudable labor law reforms and policies implemented by the development companies involved in the project, the lack of rigorous investigation*, enforcement and sanction resulted in ongoing abuses of workers.*


https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2015/country-chapters/united-arab-emirates



> Hi,
> Any members that write negative comments about Dubai - that still live in Dubai - would be advised to familiarise themselves with the UAE online laws that forbid defamation of people and companies.
> People have been jailed in the UAE for writing negative comments about their UAE employer online.
> Cheers
> Steve


Thanks for the heads up, had heard of this but did not know it was reality. Appreciate it.


----------

