# Moving from France to Spain



## LosVerdes (Mar 11, 2021)

It sounds as though some of you may already have made the move from France to Spain and we are hoping to follow. We currently live in the South West of France close to the border with Spain.

Can anyone help with suggestions or better still recommendations for removal companies. South West France to somewhere Alicante/Denia sort of region of Spain.

Many thanks


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Hi - are you British citizens? If so (as I'm sure you know but just checking!) you will have to go through the full immigration process in order to live in Spain. We no longer enjoy freedom of movement between EU member states.


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## LosVerdes (Mar 11, 2021)

Alcalaina said:


> Hi - are you British citizens? If so (as I'm sure you know) you will have to go through the full immigration process in order to live in Spain. We no longer enjoy freedom of movement between EU member states.


Yes, I am Brit or a Pomme as my Ozie husband would say but we have both established residency here in France. I have found on the UK Spanish Consulate website that british citizens who have established residency in another EU country before the cut off date, retain their right to free movement under EU legislation. So fingers crossed things should be more straight forward for us.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

LosVerdes said:


> Yes, I am Brit or a Pomme as my Ozie husband would say but we have both established residency here in France. I have found on the UK Spanish Consulate website that british citizens who have established residency in another EU country before the cut off date, retain their right to free movement under EU legislation. So fingers crossed things should be more straight forward for us.


Can you point us to exactly where it says that?

It's certainly not my understanding of the situation.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I am sure that you cannot move without applying for a visa. Free movement has finished for all UK citizens!!!


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

LosVerdes said:


> Yes, I am Brit or a Pomme as my Ozie husband would say but we have both established residency here in France. I have found on the UK Spanish Consulate website that british citizens who have established residency in another EU country before the cut off date, retain their right to free movement under EU legislation. So fingers crossed things should be more straight forward for us.


i too would be interested In the official link..you can move but don’t have freedom of movement as before, you have to apply as a third country national... that’s my understanding


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Take a look at the answers to 4.5 & 4.6.

They make it clear that under the WA we Brits don't have the right to move to another EU state just because we have established residency in another .



https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/q-a-uk-citizens-declaratory-countries_en.pdf


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## LosVerdes (Mar 11, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> Can you point us to exactly where it says that?
> 
> It's certainly not my understanding of the situation.


Here is a link to the consulate page on Visas - the information is in the third paragraph under Brexit Update heading:





Visas (FAQ)







www.exteriores.gob.es


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

LosVerdes said:


> Here is a link to the consulate page on Visas - the information is in the third paragraph under Brexit Update heading:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So it seems last August additional rights were given to British citizens already resident in the EU, provided they meet certain criteria. That's very good news!



> During a meeting of the EU-U.K. Joint Specialised Committee on citizens’ rights on Thursday, European Commission officials confirmed British citizens who moved to the EU before the end of 2020, when the Brexit transition comes to an end, will be able to settle in a different EU country than the one they are resident in, for purposes including work and study. However, that right to onward movement comes with limitations, including the need to prove five years of continuous residence in the bloc, participants in the meeting said.











Brits resident in the EU post Brexit to be given extra free movement rights


Campaigners have argued that the EU position amounted to a reduction of rights of Brits resident in EU countries.




www.politico.eu


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

LosVerdes said:


> Here is a link to the consulate page on Visas - the information is in the third paragraph under Brexit Update heading:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Alcalaina said:


> So it seems last August additional rights were given to British citizens already resident in the EU, provided they meet certain criteria. That's very good news!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


very good news and thank you to OP for supplying confirmation... is this written anywhere else officially?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

LosVerdes said:


> Yes, I am Brit or a Pomme as my Ozie husband would say but we have both established residency here in France. I have found on the UK Spanish Consulate website that british citizens who have established residency in another EU country before the cut off date, retain their right to free movement under EU legislation. So fingers crossed things should be more straight forward for us.


Sincere apologies for diverting this thread down a rabbit hole. Now hopefully someone can answer your original questions!


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## LosVerdes (Mar 11, 2021)

Alcalaina said:


> Sincere apologies for diverting this thread down a rabbit hole. Now hopefully someone can answer your original questions!


No apologies - I cannot say how relieved we were when I found this out so it is good to spread the word. But if anyone can help with removals that would be great.


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## LosVerdes (Mar 11, 2021)

LosVerdes said:


> No apologies - I cannot say how relieved we were when I found this out so it is good to spread the word. But if anyone can help with removals that would be great.


Also just for the record we certainly meet the 5 year rule having moved to France in 2006.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Withdrawn for further investigation.

OK, the source for this 'claim' is a meeting in Aug 2020 but the real question is where is it written into anything official?

It's useful to review the meaning of 'free movement'

*What is freedom of movement?*
Freedom of Movement is one of the Four Economic Freedoms enshrined in the EU Treaty of Rome. It guarantees that *citizens of the Union may move freely between countries to work and live without discrimination*. Each country implements these rules within its own national framework to allow EU citizens to register as residents and seek employment within its borders.

Under that definition to give Brits resident in one EU member state (5 years or not) the right to switch that residency to another state without having to comply with that 2nd. states residency requirements would elevate them above actual EU citizens and that can never be correct.

Directly pertinent to the OP's situation.

https://www.thelocal.fr/20201225/la...vement-complicates-lives-for-brits-in-europe/

Quote:

So for example someone now resident in France would not be able to move to Germany without going through the process for visas.

That means the freedom they used to leave the UK in the first place does not continue, much to the dismay and anger of many.

“UK citizens living in EU made a commitment to the EU and should retain Freedom of Movement. The UK government should be negotiating this on our behalf,” said one reader of The Local.

Unfortunately the British government chose to end freedom of movement for EU citizens wanting to move to the UK, and as a result its own citizens lost their right to live in the EU's 27 member states.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

LosVerdes said:


> Yes, I am Brit or a Pomme as my Ozie husband would say but we have both established residency here in France. I have found on the UK Spanish Consulate website that british citizens who have established residency in another EU country before the cut off date, retain their right to free movement under EU legislation. So fingers crossed things should be more straight forward for us.


I had a discussion on this recently on this forum, and have come to the conclusion that the rights under the withdrawal agreement are somewhat different from the general rights under the EU law. In the Lisbon Treaty, now incorporated into EU law, there is transferrable permanent residency between EU states, except for countries who have opt-out - Ireland and Denmark (and UK when it was in EU). Under this provision, for example, someone with permanent residency in France can move to Spain with transferrable residency, but I have a distinct feeling that UK nationals who are beneficiaries of the withdrawal agreement are excluded. Even if you have attained permanent residency under the general EU law, long before Brexit and its withdrawal agreement, all British citizens' status has been absorbed into the provision of the WA. You can argue that those under the WA have less right that others, but in other respects they have more, such as the ability to stay away for 5 years before you can resume permanent residency (normal provision is 2 years).


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

The transferrable residency you speak of applied (applies) to non EU nationals who had completed 10 years of residency in their host country, whether that could be stretched to apply to recently disenfranchised Brits is an unknown.

Either way it would not apply to the OP unless he had 10 years under his belt not just 5, furthermore an application under that provision MUST be made from the host state BEFORE moving.


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## LosVerdes (Mar 11, 2021)

MataMata said:


> The transferrable residency you speak of applied (applies) to non EU nationals who had completed 10 years of residency in their host country, whether that could be stretched to apply to recently disenfranchised Brits is an unknown.
> 
> Either way it would not apply to the OP unless he had 10 years under his belt not just 5, furthermore an application under that provision MUST be made from the host state BEFORE moving.


Well thanks to everyone for their input - we obviously have to do more research. But according to your post if it applies to non EU nationals, we may be covered by one of us being Australian. Watch this space.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

xabiaxica said:


> Take a look at the answers to 4.5 & 4.6.
> 
> They make it clear that under the WA we Brits don't have the right to move to another EU state just because we have established residency in another .
> 
> ...


Hadn't read the document before but 4.10 is bang on point.

*"4.10.I reside in the host EU state and I am protected by the Withdrawal Agreement. Do I still enjoy free movement rights within the EU?*
_
United Kingdom nationals protected by the Withdrawal Agreement in one Member State will not be able to invoke the Withdrawal Agreement to obtain the right to move freely to another Member State, to establish themselves or to provide services or cross-border services to persons established in other Member States that applied before the end of the transition period under EU law. This does not affect any rights UK nationals may enjoy under other instruments of EU or national law."_

The freedom of movement WA recipients enjoy is the same as any other EU citizen in that they are not subject to the maximum 90 days in the Schengen area rule the way UK resident British citizens now are.

In other words they are able to visit other member states for up to 90 days on a serial and ongoing basis, i.e. a Brit resident in French can travel to another member state, stay there for up to 90 days then move on to 3rd state for a further 90 days, then onto another ad infinitum, the only caveat being that they do not spend more than 90 days in any 180 in any one state, exactly as it was before Brexit in fact.

Unfortunately it seems the OP may have latched onto what she wanted to hear, I hope no costly or irreversible decisions have been made on the strength of it.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

MataMata said:


> Hadn't read the document before but 4.10 is bang on point.
> 
> *"4.10.I reside in the host EU state and I am protected by the Withdrawal Agreement. Do I still enjoy free movement rights within the EU?*
> 
> ...


Yes, Freedom of Movement is in no way the same as freedom-to-move-and-set-up-home. 

Bad news for the @LosVerdes


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I was also surprised to hear that we could move to other EU countries as this was very much flagged up as a no no. I distinctly remember reading an article about Brits working in different countries than they lived and that right had gone after Brexit. I am pretty sure this would have been quite a big thing to change and I am sure that we would have heard


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kaipa said:


> I was also surprised to hear that we could move to other EU countries as this was very much flagged up as a no no. I distinctly remember reading an article about Brits working in different countries than they lived and that right had gone after Brexit. I am pretty sure this would have been quite a big thing to change and I am sure that we would have heard


Cross-border working you mean? 

I think that's still possible if the job was already in place before the end of last year - though some paperwork had to be completed.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I don't have the time or energy to plough through all the minutes of the Citizens' rights working party referred to in the Politico article, but the fact that the Spanish Embassy website now states the following seems to indicate that the decision was ratified at some point..



> As of the end of the transition period British citizens and their non-EU family members will be subject to all Spanish immigration rules for third-country nationals, meaning any privileges under EU freedom of movement will come to an end.
> However UK nationals and their family members who established the residence in other EU Member State before the end of the transition period in accordance with EU free movement law, *will maintain their free movement rights after 31st December 2020*.








Visas (FAQ)







www.exteriores.gob.es


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Yes but as I said earlier it comes back to the definition of FoM.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> I don't have the time or energy to plough through all the minutes of the Citizens' rights working party referred to in the Politico article, but the fact that the Spanish Embassy website now states the following seems to indicate that the decision was ratified at some point..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It hadn't been by January this year, according to the link from the European Commision that I posted.


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## Kinsale (Feb 21, 2013)

Just curious. Has relocating from France to Spain be one a thing? If so, why?


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Difficult to answer a question which makes no sense!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I think it’s meant to read ‘become a thing’. I doubt it, people move from one country to another for many different reasons.


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