# Tax on "overseas firms"



## Ioli (Jan 19, 2015)

BBC News - Obama plans tax on US firms overseas to fix roads at home Who is considered a US firm?

I mean, is a self employed american citizen living abroad a "US firm"?


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## Ioli (Jan 19, 2015)

From the US Greece tax treaty: (2) In the case of applications for collection of taxes, revenue claims of each of the Contracting States which have been finally determined may be accepted for enforcement by the other Contracting State and collected in that State as though such taxes were taxes finally imposed, due and payable to that State. The State to which application is made shall not be required to enforce executory measures for which there is no provision in the law of the State making the application.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Ioli said:


> I mean, is a self employed american citizen living abroad a "US firm"?


No.

But please relax already, Loli.  You live in a comparatively high tax jurisdiction (Greece), and Greece has tax and social security treaties with the United States. It is _improbable_ you would owe any U.S. tax, at least assuming you're not _very_ high up in the income ranges (and probably not even then). In fact, I'd consider your possession of U.S. citizenship to be extremely advantageous right now as a form of insurance given the persistent economic uncertainties and distress in Greece. Though, for what it's worth, I happen to think it's great news that the new Greek government is trying to jolt European policymakers out of their maltreatment and neglect of so many EU citizens who are unemployed and underemployed.

Anyway, you've got privileged access to the world's #1 economy, currently with a 5.6% national unemployment rate (December, 2014), so bravo for that.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Have moved this out into its own thread as the topic probably will be of interest to others.

There are two different income taxes: personal income tax and corporate income tax. If you're "self-employed" you're paying personal income taxes (or filing personal income tax forms if you're a "US person" living overseas).

As you'll see from the article, persons and corporations are taxed a bit differently. Corporations can shield earnings from US taxes by keeping the money out of the US. People don't have that option. 
Cheers,
Bev


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## Ioli (Jan 19, 2015)

Thanks!


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Bevdeforges said:


> People don't have that option.


They do, in fact, have that option as long as they're willing to _stash themselves_ outside the United States, i.e. renounce U.S. citizenship or U.S. nationality (or terminate U.S. green card status). Holding another citizenship is a prerequisite to exercising that option. If they have substantial wealth and/or past income they may be subject to an Expatriation Tax.

As always the details matter, but the principle of taxing corporate profits left overseas (in low or zero tax jurisdictions) is not particularly controversial. U.S. corporations themselves have proposed that idea through their lobbyists, though of course without the 19% tax on future profits left overseas. Past "tax holidays" to repatriate earnings have had negligible (if that) impact on the real U.S. economy. Corporations _say_ they'll spend repatriated earnings on real economic investments they would otherwise not have made, but -- surprise! -- they're lying about that. Mostly they just take the money and buy back their own stock. In this case, however, the President is proposing to spend the extra tax revenue on repairing U.S. infrastructure (as I understand it). The additional public infrastructure repair spending _will_ boost the real U.S. economy.


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