# Coming to France for 12 months - checklist



## zorconinternational

Hi there - I've been planning a twelve month stay in France with my wife, and our youngest daughter, for quite some time. I'm starting to get my head around things, but I want to make sure I line things up well in advance.
I'm a dual Australian-Irish citizen, so residency for all three of us should be fine. I am also in the process of organising Irish citizenship for our daughter, by the way. I will be on long service leave from my current job for the duration of the stay, so I will have a healthy income.
We are having a quick trip to France this coming September, in order to settle on our eventual destination town (the shortlist is Nancy, Lyon, Aix-en-Provence, Pau and Bordeaux). We have been in contact with bilingual schools in each of these towns, and we're planning to visit the schools on our lap around the country.
I speak pretty decent French, my daughter (currently 12 y.o.) is studying it in school, and my wife is slowly making her way into it via Duolingo.
Here's my to do list, please critique it as you see fit:

maintain regular contact with real estate agencies in our chosen town, to hopefully sort out a furnished rental before we arrive. If this falls over, I may come over a little earlier, and scour the local area for flats. I've noticed that there are lots of rentals available now, assuming there is a big turnover due to the end of the academic year.
come over before schools starts up again next year (~August 2023), settle in.
will we need a carte de sejour for my wife? We did a similar thing in 2008 where we stayed in Ireland for 12 months. We needed to get a marriage certificate sent over from Australia, and had to register at the local police station.
set up a bank account prior to coming over (have noticed some people recommending HSBC; any other thoughts/suggestions?)
buy a car as soon as possible (we'll be exploring France and other nearby countries as much as possible, so a car is a must). Will need a rental agreement as proof of address.
I've looked into the social security situation a bit, but to be honest I find it quite confusing. I think I can apply for my numero de securite sociale first (is that right??). Once I have this, I can visit a CPAM and provide all my ID stuff, bank details, proof of address etc. This will get me a carte vitale (but do we need to be living there for three months prior to getting the c vitale??)
I'll make sure we all have passports (of course), birth certificates, marriage certificate, proof of employment, income statements, motor vehicle insurance statements, and so on, before we go. Is it necessary to have any of these translated into French?
I'm sure I'll have a million other questions, but that's all I've got for now 

Thanks in advance,
Danny.


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## Bevdeforges

Hi, and welcome to the forum. It sounds like you've got a pretty decent plan there. Just a few comments regarding the details:


zorconinternational said:


> maintain regular contact with real estate agencies in our chosen town


Just be aware that real estate agencies may work considerably differently from what you're used to. Rental property tends to get snarfed up pretty quickly (if it's a nice place) so it may be tough to find agents willing to deal long distance like that. Coming over a bit early to secure accommodations might work out better for you.


zorconinternational said:


> come over before schools starts up again next year (~August 2023), settle in.


August is a pretty dead month in most of France - think about planning for mid-July if you can.


zorconinternational said:


> will we need a carte de sejour for my wife?


Basically, yes. She'll be subject to the "spouse of an EU national" procedure - basically, she must apply within the first 90 days that she is in the country. Both you and she will need to have private health insurance (for the card, and then to apply to CPAM for national cover if that's how you plan to do it). Ultimately, it may be easier to just get a one year policy to cover the time you plan to stay here. The CPAM application and acceptance process can take "a few" months.


zorconinternational said:


> set up a bank account prior to coming over (have noticed some people recommending HSBC; any other thoughts/suggestions?)


In your case that may be the way to go. HSBC doesn't have branches in some parts of France, so make sure you check the area around where you decide to settle.


zorconinternational said:


> buy a car as soon as possible


Some folks suggest leasing a car, though I'm clueless on that option. Someone will no doubt jump in here on that idea.


zorconinternational said:


> This will get me a carte vitale (but do we need to be living there for three months prior to getting the c vitale??)


You only get a secu number first if you're going to be working here and thus your employer has to enroll you in the system. If you're only going to be staying for a year, it may be much simpler to get yourselves a one year "expat policy." As mentioned above, you do have to have 3 months of residence here before you can apply, and the application takes a few months to be processed. French CPAM cover does not reimburse 100% of most expenses, so you'll also need a mutuelle (which is a top up policy that covers the part that the sécu doesn't) and those are charged on a per person basis, depending on the level of reimbursement you need and want. By the time you have this all set up, chances are you'll be packing up to move back.


zorconinternational said:


> Is it necessary to have any of these translated into French?


Depends on who is asking for them. And some documents - like birth certificates may need to be less than 3 or 6 months old (i.e. certified copies, not the original documents). Though for a one year stay, you may not need the recent documents. Bring a full set of recent birth records and marriage certificates to use in your first three months here, and then hope for the best. Translation services are available online with the expected "certification" (i.e. traducteur assermenté) and turnaround times are usually pretty reasonable. But only get translations if specifically requested to do so.


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## Crabtree

Do not buy a car There will be a load of paperwork etc Far better would be a long term lease for 12 months An example








HOME | carexpats







www.car-expats.fr


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## zorconinternational

Bevdeforges said:


> Hi, and welcome to the forum. It sounds like you've got a pretty decent plan there. Just a few comments regarding the details:
> 
> Just be aware that real estate agencies may work considerably differently from what you're used to. Rental property tends to get snarfed up pretty quickly (if it's a nice place) so it may be tough to find agents willing to deal long distance like that. Coming over a bit early to secure accommodations might work out better for you.
> 
> August is a pretty dead month in most of France - think about planning for mid-July if you can.
> 
> Basically, yes. She'll be subject to the "spouse of an EU national" procedure - basically, she must apply within the first 90 days that she is in the country. Both you and she will need to have private health insurance (for the card, and then to apply to CPAM for national cover if that's how you plan to do it). Ultimately, it may be easier to just get a one year policy to cover the time you plan to stay here. The CPAM application and acceptance process can take "a few" months.
> 
> In your case that may be the way to go. HSBC doesn't have branches in some parts of France, so make sure you check the area around where you decide to settle.
> 
> Some folks suggest leasing a car, though I'm clueless on that option. Someone will no doubt jump in here on that idea.
> 
> You only get a secu number first if you're going to be working here and thus your employer has to enroll you in the system. If you're only going to be staying for a year, it may be much simpler to get yourselves a one year "expat policy." As mentioned above, you do have to have 3 months of residence here before you can apply, and the application takes a few months to be processed. French CPAM cover does not reimburse 100% of most expenses, so you'll also need a mutuelle (which is a top up policy that covers the part that the sécu doesn't) and those are charged on a per person basis, depending on the level of reimbursement you need and want. By the time you have this all set up, chances are you'll be packing up to move back.
> 
> Depends on who is asking for them. And some documents - like birth certificates may need to be less than 3 or 6 months old (i.e. certified copies, not the original documents). Though for a one year stay, you may not need the recent documents. Bring a full set of recent birth records and marriage certificates to use in your first three months here, and then hope for the best. Translation services are available online with the expected "certification" (i.e. traducteur assermenté) and turnaround times are usually pretty reasonable. But only get translations if specifically requested to do so.


Thanks SO much for all your wisdom! I'm hoping that prolonged, regular contact with RE agents will help build trust. But will definitely track this to make sure we're not left high & dry.
Regarding an August arrival, it is looking more like the end of August anyway, so a quiet 7-10 days whilst we're getting set up won't trouble us too much.
Re. the carte de sejour - no worries. It sounds very much like the process in Ireland.
Re. the bank account - looks like there's an HSBC branch in all the towns we're considering, so that should be OK.
Re. the carte vitale - yep, sounds like health insurance for the year will be much, much easier!
And I'll snoop around the web for certified translators.
As for the car - we did OK buying something cheap and cheerful in Ireland. I'll scope the long-term rental market, but may still go with a second-hand purchase.
Again, thanks so much for your help!
Big cheers,
Danny.


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## zorconinternational

Crabtree said:


> Do not buy a car There will be a load of paperwork etc Far better would be a long term lease for 12 months An example
> 
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> HOME | carexpats
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> www.car-expats.fr


Thanks Crabtree - your comments are duly noted!
I'll start seeking out some quotes from some providers. As I mentioned in my reply above to Bevdeforges, we did OK with a cheap second had car in Ireland. I'm certainly considering rolling the dice again, but I will do my homework re. long term leases. Thanks again 
Danny


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## Bevdeforges

zorconinternational said:


> we did OK with a cheap second had car in Ireland.


The laws regarding buying and insuring a car are considerably different here than in Ireland. And, as you'll see noted all over this forum, the sense is that used car prices are considerably higher here than in Ireland (or the UK). Insurance can be tricky if you have only your foreign license - and exchanging your Aussie license for a French one may be a bigger bureaucratic hassle than you are interested in pursuing. (Not sure exactly how that works - and besides, you'd just have to exchange it back after your year is up.)

Caveats, though. Not deal breakers by any means.


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## saffron_gin

Bevdeforges said:


> The laws regarding buying and insuring a car are considerably different here than in Ireland. And, as you'll see noted all over this forum, the sense is that used car prices are considerably higher here than in Ireland (or the UK). Insurance can be tricky if you have only your foreign license - and exchanging your Aussie license for a French one may be a bigger bureaucratic hassle than you are interested in pursuing. (Not sure exactly how that works - and besides, you'd just have to exchange it back after your year is up.)
> 
> Caveats, though. Not deal breakers by any means.


Sorry to butt in Bev, but wanted to add that you can certainly get insurance for first year with foreign license...they will need an attestation stating that you have been in France for less than a year...and since they are onky here for a year that shouldn't be a problem.


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## zorconinternational

saffron_gin said:


> Sorry to butt in Bev, but wanted to add that you can certainly get insurance for first year with foreign license...they will need an attestation stating that you have been in France for less than a year...and since they are onky here for a year that shouldn't be a problem.


Thanks saffron_gin. I'm undecided which way to go. Given that I won't be working at all while I'm there, I'll have plenty of time to work my way through the red tape (he says, naively!!)  should I decide to buy. I'm only thinking of something around 3,000 EU, so if it ends up being a shocker, it wouldn't be the end of the world (and at that price, it's already worth more than the old bomb I'm driving now!!)


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## SPGW

Quick bit of advice - don't gloss over the "bilingual schools". Give them some close scrutiny on your visits and check their use of "bilingual" meets your expectations. We chose one for the intended benefit of a family member who had been in FR, US, BE and UK systems... and were misled. The school may have a bilingual teacher but check what classes (other than English language) if any, are given in English and if possible, check the bilingual credentials of the teachers.


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## Bevdeforges

zorconinternational said:


> I'm only thinking of something around 3,000 EU, so if it ends up being a shocker, it wouldn't be the end of the world (and at that price, it's already worth more than the old bomb I'm driving now!!)


Take a look at some of the online sites for buying used cars to see what's available for 3000€ these days. And then consider what exactly you are planning on using your car for while you're here.

I took a quick look at Leboncoin (one of the biggies for small ads) and it's fairly obviously that most of the 3000€ and under cars being sold are diesels - some being as much as 20 years old. Then check the criteria for the Crit'Air stickers - and the Crit'Air restrictions for any of the towns that you are likely to be traveling in or through while you're here. In Paris (at least), diesel passenger vehicles that are earlier than 2011 (I think it is) are simply banned from the streets - or will be within the next few months. (My husband's diesel car dates back to late 2010, which is why I "just happen" to know this. He has ordered a new car, but delivery has been delayed - which is a whole 'nuther story. <bg>) 

If you're only here for a year, you don't want to have to spend the first six months of your stay resolving these sorts of issues, if you can avoid it.


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## saffron_gin

As Bev says rightly it is going to be quite hard to find such a car. 

I thought the same - under 5k before arriving...But ended up having to go a good deal higher since I wasn't using LBC to buy, as my French and Car knowledge are both paltry.


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## zorconinternational

saffron_gin said:


> As Bev says rightly it is going to be quite hard to find such a car.
> 
> I thought the same - under 5k before arriving...But ended up having to go a good deal higher since I wasn't using LBC to buy, as my French and Car knowledge are both paltry.


That settles it! You and Bev have set out a good case for avoiding an old bomb. I got a reply back from a company that does the LT leases, and we can get a little hatch for roughly 7000 EU for the year (two x 175 day leases). No headaches!!


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## zorconinternational

SPGW said:


> Quick bit of advice - don't gloss over the "bilingual schools". Give them some close scrutiny on your visits and check their use of "bilingual" meets your expectations. We chose one for the intended benefit of a family member who had been in FR, US, BE and UK systems... and were misled. The school may have a bilingual teacher but check what classes (other than English language) if any, are given in English and if possible, check the bilingual credentials of the teachers.


Great advice SPGW. I have laboured over this for some time. Now that we have a manageable short list (five schools) I can scrutinise their programs more closely. Thanks


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## BackinFrance

Generally speaking, schools that teach the international baccalauréat will do a lot of their teaching in French, whilst schools that teach the UK GCE do the bulk of their teaching in English. I don't think Australia follows the UK GCE program. I therefore think that you should expect your child to be put back a year when you return to Australia,even if you choose a school that teaches the International bac (which I believe Australia can cater for, but not in French).


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## zorconinternational

BackinFrance said:


> Generally speaking, schools that teach the international baccalauréat will do a lot of their teaching in French, whilst schools that teach the UK GCE do the bulk of their teaching in English. I don't think Australia follows the UK GCE program. I therefore think that you should expect your child to be put back a year when you return to Australia,even if you choose a school that teaches the International bac (which I believe Australia can cater for, but not in French).


Thanks BackinFrance - good advice there. When we visit in September, we'll do our best to gauge the level of support our daughter will receive/need, depending on each individual school. We've already had one Zoom meeting with one of the schools, and I felt quite reassured following that.
Regarding her being held back - I sincerely hope that's not the case. Part of the reason for going now is that Year 8 and Year 9 are somewhat less consequential/influential when it comes to her eventual successful completion of secondary school back here (if there is significant disruption, we can make up for it or catch up as required). I'm hopeful that the life experience she gains, navigating a different system, with language barriers to manage, will yield greater benefit for her overall. She will need to adapt and think on her feet, and we will be there to support her all the way.
Cheers,
Danny.


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