# Thinking about immigrating to Japan



## Sktlez

Hi, so a little background information on myself. I am 23 years old currently and live in the USA, specifically the Idaho Area (Blackfoot). I currently do not hold any kind of degree (besides a High school diploma), but am working on college at the moment, I'm going for computer science at the moment, but contemplating Advanced networking or Web Design/software development as well. I currently work for FedEx Express and am saving money as we speak.

Now, I have never been to Japan, but I want to definitely take a trip before deciding on whether I really want to immigrate of course. I've heard that if you're over the age of 21 you cannot be granted dual citizenship so that terrifies me a lot! The reasons I'd like to move to Japan are:

1. I really find Japanese culture to be interesting and would love to learn more about it and be able to experience it first hand.

2. I know everyone will laugh, but I love anime. I am aware that most people, at least from what I've read are not big into anime and will probably ridicule me for that.

3. I'd really like to find a traditional Japanese girl to date/marry. What I mean by traditional and maybe it's not so much anymore (or maybe my definition of a traditional Japanese woman is off!), but a girl that will cook for me (or cook with me, I'm not the best cook, but I can cook, would prefer to help her cook, but yeah), a girl that will also clean the house (again, I wouldn't not help with this, but I'm hoping you can understand what I am getting at), a girl that is slightly shy, reserved, but open, fun, caring, faithful, loyal, very very very outgoing.

4. I would like a change from where I currently reside and I mean a much bigger change then just a move to another city, state, ect where the only things that are truly different are my neighbors are new, street names and locations are different, but the overall feel is still the same. I also would like to live in or as close to Tokyo as possible!

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Now, some more relevant information I currently do not speak or write Japanese, but am currently in the process of learning it. I'm thinking I'm gonna use Rosetta stone for this. Anyone got any experience in this area? I plan to be able to speak at least the minimal amount so that I can get around on my own in Japan.

I've also heard that even for the Japanese it's very hard, but for Americans it's like hell. Is it true that Japanese companies will hire a non-immigrant over an immigrant unless you're extremely more qualified for the job? I've also heard the Japanese look at foreigners and call us gajins (outsiders), laugh at us, honk, ect and are just generally not very accepting about us being there? Also is it true that you have to have a degree to immigrate to Japan, does anyone have experience immigrating from the USA to Japan and can shed some light for me? I personally would plan, after visiting of course and deciding I really want to immigrate to Japan to go over on maybe a culture visa (I believe that's the term) or maybe a couple of 90-day trips to really see what's it like since this short term stay would not require a VISA. Is living in Japan as expensive as everyone makes it sound? I'd really like to be able to sit down with someone who has done what I am contemplating and really be able to talk about it, if anyone would allow me that is?


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## larabell

I have nothing against anime, per-se, especially the better quality stuff. But but from what you wrote, I'd venture a guess that you're watching a bit too much of it and would benefit from meeting some real people once in a while. A lot of your ideas about Japan are based on common (and somewhat naive) stereotypes.

The Japanese language is not hard for native Japanese. My kids picked it up right away and were jabbering their heads off before they were a year old. What's hard is picking up a new language later in life because the mental circuits that make language learning possible start to atrophy once you start getting older. And people who were raised all their life thinking there's only 26 glyphs to work with seem to find it harder to deal with several thousand but kids who are raised here don't seem to have as much problem (though with so many choices, it's not unusual for someone to forget those characters they don't use much -- similar to Westerners forgetting how to spell words they don't use all that frequently).

As for jobs... every sane company will hire a more qualified person over a lesser qualified person and being able to speak to your co-workers is part of being qualified. It's a simple matter of competition. There are plenty of well-qualified Japanese who can already speak the language so unless you bring a specialty that's hard to find here, or job-specific knowledge and experience, you're going to have to compete with the locals. That's certainly not unique to Japan.

Some Japanese are prejudiced against non-Japanese but that's a small minority (from what I've seen) and that's also not unique to Japan. There's a lot of whining in the expat community about the term "gaijin" but that's just the Japanese word for foreigner and not necessarily a derogatory term. Based on my experience, you should be able to find plenty of people who will accept you at face value, assuming you're willing to do the same.

It is mostly true that you have to have a degree to get a working visa. Unless, of course, you're an Indian chef or a cute Philippine girl looking to work in a hostess bar. For computer work, a degree and a sponsor (ie: someone who wants to hire you) are pretty much the prerequisites. If you have enough money to support yourself, a student or cultural visa is possible but there are limits on how much you can work under those visas so you should be prepared to support yourself while you're here. The "working holiday" visa is currently not available to Americans. In theory, as long as you're not working (ie: not doing anything here that earns you money) you could come on a 90 day visa and leave and come back as many times as you want but expect Immigration to be looking pretty hard at your background and how you're supporting yourself after the first couple trips. If you work while you're here on a temporary visa, you could be barred from re-entering the country for 5 years.

Housing here is more expensive than in Idaho. Think Manhattan or Cupertino. Other than housing, things are slightly more expensive but if you learn to eat and shop like a local, rather than like a tourist, it's not all that bad. Of course, if you're expecting things here to be different from where you are currently, you might be disappointed. Except for the language, Tokyo is more like a modern American city than most cities in Europe. If you're looking for rice paddies and houses with straw roofs, this isn't the place.

I'd also advise you to meet a few real Japanese girls before you decide to settle down because your view of women here is completely upside-down. Maintaining a cross-cultural relationship takes a lot of hard work and maturity. I'd recommend you work on that first... then work on deciding whether you're willing to put in that kind of effort.

As for citizenship... you're really jumping the gun here. You can apply for Japanese citizenship at any age but you're not likely to get it unless you've been here for a long time. Permanent residency usually takes around 10 years, relative self-sufficiency, and a legitimate reason to stay long-term. Plus, there's no reason to even apply for citizenship unless you're hoping to vote or run for public office here. Dual citizenship isn't officially recognized by either Japan or the US... and the US makes it difficult to renounce your US citizenship, even though (in theory) you're supposed to relinquish your current citizenship as part of being granted Japanese citizenship. But not everyone does and it's not strictly enforced. Of course, you probably have a long time before you'll even be in a position to make that choice.

Your best bet would be to save up enough money to come over for a month, preferably two, and support yourself. There are small longer-term apartments that don't cost as much as a hotel. In fact, you probably don't want to be in a hotel if the point is to see what it's like to live in Japan. If your Japanese is passable at that point, find a small hole-in-the-wall restaurant and maybe strike up a conversation with some of the regulars there. Then you'll know whether you really want to live here, accepting the bad points with the good, or if it's easier to just continue to get your Japan fix watching amime.


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## Sktlez

I really appreciate you taking the time to read and respond to my post! Thank you very much. I do have a few more questions that I'd like to ask, hopefully you can answer them as well? I see that you live in Japan, do you like it compared to where you lived before? How was it when you first moved to Tokyo? Was it hard to find a job, living quarters and meet people? When I say hard I should probably clarify what I mean haha, but was it harder then getting a job here (other then the fact of having to probably travel to japan for an interview i'm guessing?) What were the real hurdles in the process of getting, moving, settling in and getting a life in Tokyo? Are the people as friendly as they are portrayed in most shows/anime? I'd assume not, but are they more friendly then maybe say Chicago or New York for an example?

I've also heard that you can pretty much get anything from a vending machine how does that work and is it true? When you say shop like a local are you talking about shopping at discount stores or just knowing where to buy certain things and where not to? Can you give me some more information in that regard? I'd also like to know what a typical day is like for you. Do you spend a lot of time on a train and if so is that the normal? From what I've seen and heard that seems to be one of the most common forms of travel in Japan, the next was buses. Do a lot of people drive in Tokyo or is public transportation a norm where as where i live we have almost no taxis (you call them they're not our driving around), we have no trains (other than for transport here), we do have a few buses but it's few and far between a go-to here. Have you had any experience with night life (clubs, bars, ect)? Anything that I should know or you think is important before going to Japan for the first time? Based on my first post is Tokyo really where I want to go in Japan or is there maybe a place that would have more appeal to me? I read about Akihabara which is in the Chiyoda ward of Tokyo. Have you ever been? Do you know much about it? Is it more expensive to live there vs somewhere else around Tokyo?

What things do you miss about the U.S. that you no longer can get, see, do, ect? A specific food maybe, clothing, video game, grooming product, medicine, ect. Do you get treated differently? Do you fit in?

p.s. I've been debating on buying rosetta stone right now its on sale for 200$ off normal price, but I cannot decide if I should start learning Japanese before even going for the first time? Also how bad is the language barrier in Japan as far as speaking English?


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## larabell

Wow... that's a lot of questions. Lets see how many I can get through before I have to get going.

I've worked for four different companies here; twice I was sent over on assignment by my employer at the time and once I was recruited by someone I had already worked with. Only once did I have to look for a job and the process was more-or-less the same as it would have been in the States but, by that time, I could speak reasonably passable Japanese.

Personally, I like Japan. But once you've lived here past the "honeymoon period", you start to see all the warts. Then it's more a matter of which set of warts least annoys you . I'm very active in my local community and that's something I don't think would have happened in a larger American city. Also I actually enjoy not having to drive everywhere I go -- although that might be different if I had to commute to an office every day. I think it really depends on the person -- which is why you should shoot for a short-term stay at first (a couple of months at least). I don't think the honeymoon phase really wears off until you've been here a couple of years. But you won't get much of an idea what it's like to live here on a one-week trip, either.

As I mentioned above, the two times I actually relocated to Japan, it was on assignment and all the logistics (moving, finding a place, etc) was handled by my employer. If you can find a company back home who will eventually move you to Japan on assignment, go for that. Not only will Japanese ability be less a factor in getting the job but it takes a lot of hassle out of the relocation. That said, those kinds of jobs are getting more and more difficult to find.

Settling in and getting along without Japanese fluency isn't a huge hurdle. Japanese people, in general, are very friendly and accommodating -- but you have to understand that very few of them actually speak English (even though most were exposed to some English in school). Younger people are more likely to remember some of what they learned... at least the vocabulary. The biggest issue is reading. For example, trying to find the shampoo in a supermarket isle (that was actually the first thing I found I couldn't do when I came over). If you're a patient person who thrives on challenge, you'll be fine. If your impatient and expect the world to conform to your fixed ideas, you'll go insane. And if you come over thinking that Japan is somehow "inferior" because everyone doesn't automatically speak to you in English, people will pick up on that and you won't have a very positive experience.

Yes... you can find a lot of stuff in vending machines, but... depending on what you want, a machine might not be convenient (for example, the only banana machine I know of is on the other side of town from where I live ). What I mean is to avoid hotel restaurants and shops where they import products whose labels you can actually read. Import equals cost. And hiring bi-lingual staff is usually reserved for places that charge a premium. Eat at small local restaurants. Shop in supermarkets. Get used to Japanese hair products instead of insisting on an American brand. In Tokyo there are districts where certain things are cheaper -- learning those helps but I was really talking about the day-to-day things. You could make the trek to National Azabu once a week to buy imported American and/or European food supplies and pay more -- or you could shop at SunnyMart like everyone else in your neighborhood. That's what I mean.

As for transportation... in Tokyo, trains and subways are the norm. They're super-easy to use once you grok the route map. You can even get a rechargeable card so you don't have to stare at the map above the ticket machines to figure out how much to pay for a ticket. There are busses and, for me, there's one bus line that is sometimes more convenient than the train but I could get along well enough just using the subway (there's a station just 5 minutes walk from my place). That said... I don't use public transit as much as I used to because I work mostly at home.

Ordinary working stiffs don't usually drive to work (unless your job requires a vehicle). But many people do own cars and drive on the weekends. Parking in Tokyo is really expensive and you can't own a car unless you have an off-street place to park it. That's around $300/month in my area and even more if you live near the center of the city. And that doesn't account for parking fees when you reach your destination. But in two decades I've never found I needed a car. If you buy something large, like furniture, the shop will deliver it. If you need to get somewhere fast, there are taxis (although, in rush hour, the train is usually faster). Things are just set-up here so that you can rely entirely on public or hired transit of one form or another. I did rent a car here on two occasions, both times for a driving vacation. I'm thinking of doing that again this Summer, just for the driving practice.

I have some experience with night life but, these days, my night life consists of hanging out in the local bars with other local regulars. But you can find just about anything you want in Tokyo. And for the most part, it's perfectly safe (save for the occasional reports of non-Japanese being fleeced in Roppongi or Kabukicho). If I were to give you one piece of advice, it's to not follow the touts on the streets to their club unless you're with someone who knows what they're doing. Stick with the more popular places that don't need to drag people in off the street to survive and you should be fine.

Yes I've been to Akihabara and I suspect it's more expensive there than where I live. But it's not more expensive than... say... the Azabu area. I would suggest not choosing a place to live based on your personal interests (ie: anime). Finding a place close to work makes some sense (you'll go to work more often than you go to Akihabara) but cost considerations may suggest a place further out from the center of the city. It's also a lot quieter (less traffic), prettier (shorter buildings) and you'll be more likely to meet locals at the bars and restaurants in the area. You can always take a train to Akihabara when the mood strikes.

When I first came here, there were specific things I couldn't easily get but, over time, that changed. I'm used to local products and local foods, I've found the shops that sell big-and-tall clothing, I go to local doctors who prescribe medicine that the local pharmacist carries. And whatever I can't find I can buy from Amazon and it shows up the next day. The only thing left are shoes -- but my foot is so wide that I have trouble finding shoes in the US as well. My last pair was ordered online .

When I go back for business, however, there are all sorts of things I'm used to in Japan that I can't find in the US. I'm probably not the best judge of that, since I've been here for so long that it feels more like home than it does in the States. You'll know you've reached that point when you look out the airplane window and breathe a sigh of relief when Narita comes into view ).

I'm sure I've missed some points but this is getting pretty long so I'll stop here and wait for the next set of questions. Hopefully someone who is more "new" to Japan can chime in as well.


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## Raffish_Chapish

Hello chap - I've been here 5 months now. Dated Japanese girls and now have a Japanese girlfriend. You'll have no trouble meeting them but your view of what they are like is pretty off from my experiences so far.
As a non Japanese speaker you'll only be able to communicate with 2% of them for a start, and the types of girls here are just as varied personality wise as anywhere else in the world - don't have an anime stereotype or you'll be pretty disappointed when you get here...


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