# Estimation on 261111/261112 Ceiling Limit in 2013-14



## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

*2611 might reach its ceiling limit on 1-Aug-2013??*

Dear Seniors,
After 2 invitation rounds of July-2013, now i am really concerned that if 2611 will reach its Occupational Ceiling limit again very soon. For 2611ers, please be well prepared in advance for any other plan Bs, below is the estimation and analysis. 

*Estimation: How many 2611ers were invited during 15-July-2013 under 189 category?*

1. Every round, there are about 200-250 invitation issued for other occupations.

1150 - 250 = 900 left

2. As per July-2013 invitation tracker thread indicated, seems the CUT-OFF time for 60ers should be around *15-May-2013* for invitation round 15-July-2013.

For 2613ers: from ceiling limit reached date 30-April to 15-May, let's say 150-200 invitations have been issued...

900 - 200 = 700 left

3. Any other cases - 100 invitation used

700 - 100 = 600 left


--> *So we could make the estimation that around 600 2611ers were invited on 15-July-2013 *



Total 2611 quota in 2013-14 = 1380
1-July invitations of 2611 = 460
15-July invitations of 2611 *estimated* as = 600

---------

1380 - 460 - 600 = *320 left*



*Summary: * 2611 might reach its *ceiling limit* on *1-Aug-2013*, the estimated CUT-OFF time of 60pt invitation will be *15-June-2013(60 pts).*



Any ideas?


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## Vincentluf (Jun 10, 2013)

Harish2013 said:


> Dear Seniors,
> After 2 invitation rounds of July-2013, now i am really concerned that if 2611 will reach its Occupational Ceiling limit again very soon. For 2611ers, please be well prepared in advance for any other plan Bs, below is the estimation and analysis.
> 
> *Estimation: How many 2611ers were invited during 15-July-2013 under 189 category?*
> ...




Hi,

Agree that many invites are being sent out for 2611 because of the huge backlogs. But we need to understand that these are invites and their is no guarantee that all who received invites will apply. Furthermore with the new ACS rules in April the number of elligible people will decrease considerably.

What is your opinion?

Regards
Vincent


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## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

Vincentluf said:


> Hi,
> 
> Agree that many invites are being sent out for 2611 because of the huge backlogs. But we need to understand that these are invites and their is no guarantee that all who received invites will apply. Furthermore with the new ACS rules in April the number of elligible people will decrease considerably.
> 
> ...



Hi Vincent,
Thanks for the reply. But most probably 2611 will reach its ceiling limit before those situations happened this time. After all, there should be very few cases for people dont elodge after got invited and there will be 60 days to wait for releasing back one EOI invitation..will the invitation could be released back??

As for the eligible people, so far i haven't heard any 'rejected' cases because of the ACS new rules, ppl is keeping submitting their EOI.


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## Vincentluf (Jun 10, 2013)

Did you already get your ACS results? 
I'm still waiting for mine I applied on the 30th April and they are taking ages to process applications


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## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

Vincentluf said:


> Did you already get your ACS results?
> I'm still waiting for mine I applied on the 30th April and they are taking ages to process applications


I have already got the ACS result, also took around 11.5wks.
And now ACS seems take at least 12wks to give out the result. 
But anyway, good luck to you.
And hope you are not in 2611?


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## GurgaonCouple (Jul 13, 2013)

We are 2611ers.. applied for EOI on 20th june .. hoping for an invite in August..
i remember seeing a ceiling of 1600 for 2611 earlier during the month ..have they changed it .. or it was just a mistake from my end..
We had a score of 65.. which was reduced to 60 due to new ACS rules.. thus looks like there would be fewer people in this category...


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## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

GurgaonCouple said:


> We are 2611ers.. applied for EOI on 20th june .. hoping for an invite in August..
> i remember seeing a ceiling of 1600 for 2611 earlier during the month ..have they changed it .. or it was just a mistake from my end..
> We had a score of 65.. which was reduced to 60 due to new ACS rules.. thus looks like there would be fewer people in this category...


Hi Gurgaon,

Yes, in 2012-13 fiscal year, the quota for 2611 was 1680. And the new fiscal year 2013-14, the ceiling has been changed and reduced to 1380. 65er will be invited for sure if the ceiling has not yet been down...BTW, DIAC not yer confirmed that they would reduce your pts because of ACS new rules..So from my pt of view, i would suggest you still claim 65 pts...Anyway,this is up to your own decision..
Good luck!


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## stkwn99 (Jun 26, 2013)

If 600 for 2-5backlog 2611,how could it possible for 300 for 1 month only....

600/4=150, maximun=200

so it will reach ceiling later if your 600 for this round


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## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

stkwn99 said:


> If 600 for 2-5backlog 2611,how could it possible for 300 for 1 month only....
> 
> 600/4=150, maximun=200
> 
> so it will reach ceiling later if your 600 for this round


Hi,
yeah, we all hope the ceiling limit for 2611 suppose not to come so early.
But most probably it will end in August-2013.
:fingerscrossed::fingerscrossed:


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## GurgaonCouple (Jul 13, 2013)

thanks harish.. with 60 points and EOI filing date of 20th june.. do you see any way we can mitigate the risk.

My husband has applied for business analyst with electronics engineer degree..
hence acs is only considering his experience from 2008 onwards.... now we can claim points only for 5 years of his exp.. should we apply under 190 too ?


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## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

GurgaonCouple said:


> thanks harish.. with 60 points and EOI filing date of 20th june.. do you see any way we can mitigate the risk.
> 
> My husband has applied for business analyst with electronics engineer degree..
> hence acs is only considering his experience from 2008 onwards.... now we can claim points only for 5 years of his exp.. should we apply under 190 too ?


Please note the state sponsor took longer time to process..For example, NSW take around 2 months to process the applications. And in case the 2611 has reached its ceiling limit during the period, then the state will also stop the processing and freeze till next fiscal year to continue...

But there are others states might process fast, for example, NT, which take around 2-3 weeks to process.

There are also other option as to review your skill assessment to other ocuption code, for example like 2613..etc Especially if your job duties is similar to other code..And ACS review processed very fast, i reviewed from 2611 to 2613 with only 2 days to get the new result. And both result is valid to be used.


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## stkwn99 (Jun 26, 2013)

Harish2013 said:


> Please note the state sponsor took longer time to process..For example, NSW take around 2 months to process the applications. And in case the 2611 has reached its ceiling limit during the period, then the state will also stop the processing and freeze till next fiscal year to continue...
> 
> But there are others states might process fast, for example, NT, which take around 2-3 weeks to process.
> 
> There are also other option as to review your skill assessment to other ocuption code, for example like 2613..etc Especially if your job duties is similar to other code..And ACS review processed very fast, i reviewed from 2611 to 2613 with only 2 days to get the new result. And both result is valid to be used.


Can you lodge 2 Eoi,1 for 2611 1 for 2613


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## InaToAus (Mar 20, 2013)

Harish2013 said:


> Dear Seniors,
> After 2 invitation rounds of July-2013, now i am really concerned that if 2611 will reach its Occupational Ceiling limit again very soon. For 2611ers, please be well prepared in advance for any other plan Bs, below is the estimation and analysis.
> 
> *Estimation: How many 2611ers were invited during 15-July-2013 under 189 category?*
> ...


My idea is that for 15th July round, 2611's 60-ers will also compete with other 60-ers from other occupations that was set aside by 2611's 65-ers from 1 July round, 600 is too pesimistic guess.

I would say that on 15th July round there was around 150 - 200 2611's 60-ers (plus higher ranks if any) that was invited.

I might be wrong, but I'm optimistic about my estimate above.


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## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

InaToAus said:


> My idea is that for 15th July round, 2611's 60-ers will also compete with other 60-ers from other occupations that was set aside by 2611's 65-ers from 1 July round, 600 is too pesimistic guess.
> 
> I would say that on 15th July round there was around 150 - 200 2611's 60-ers (plus higher ranks if any) that was invited.
> 
> I might be wrong, but I'm optimistic about my estimate above.


Hi InaToAus,
Please notice that the cut-off date of 15-july invitation round is around 15-May-2013 for 60ers. This means those 60ers are backlogs of those ceiling ICT occupations. The 60ers from other occupations have already been invited till 17-june-2013, please check the skillselect report of 17 June 2013 as attached. so it still possible for around 600 2611ers been invited during 15-july-2013 round.

In 1-Aug-2013 round:
1)65+ers 
2)60ers
2-1)15-may-2013 to 17-june-2013 backlog of ICT ceiling occupations
2-2)17-june-2013 to 1-aug-2013 60ers of all occupations

Thanks.


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## Vincentluf (Jun 10, 2013)

Harish2013 said:


> Please note the state sponsor took longer time to process..For example, NSW take around 2 months to process the applications. And in case the 2611 has reached its ceiling limit during the period, then the state will also stop the processing and freeze till next fiscal year to continue...
> 
> But there are others states might process fast, for example, NT, which take around 2-3 weeks to process.
> 
> There are also other option as to review your skill assessment to other ocuption code, for example like 2613..etc Especially if your job duties is similar to other code..And ACS review processed very fast, i reviewed from 2611 to 2613 with only 2 days to get the new result. And both result is valid to be used.


Hi Harish,

Really it takes only 2 days for review?
I'm planning to review mine see below my Job Description do you think I can change from 2611 to 2613 and you paid 330AUD?


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## InaToAus (Mar 20, 2013)

Harish2013 said:


> Hi InaToAus,
> Please notice that the cut-off date of 15-july invitation round is around 15-May-2013 for 60ers. This means those 60ers are backlogs of those ceiling ICT occupations. The 60ers from other occupations have already been invited till 17-june-2013, please check the skillselect report of 17 June 2013 as attached. so it still possible for around 600 2611ers been invited during 15-july-2013 round.
> 
> In 1-Aug-2013 round:
> ...


Hi Harish,

Understand your point of view, but still I'm not convinced that the backlog + 17-June - 15 July 26111's 60ers+65ers for 26111 reached 600 EOI on 15 July  be optimistic mate. Let's hope the report will come out soon, this waiting game is really addicting 

Mind to share your timeline?


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## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

Vincentluf said:


> Hi Harish,
> 
> Really it takes only 2 days for review?
> I'm planning to review mine see below my Job Description do you think I can change from 2611 to 2613 and you paid 330AUD?


Hi Vincent,
Yes, in my case, after paid 355AUD, i got the ACS result letter in 2 days for another occupation code. Both assessment are valid.

But please make sure your reference letter are in line with the ANZSCO job description: http://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/7641/ANZSCO-Code-Descriptions-1-July-2012-V2.pdf

Thanks.


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## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

InaToAus said:


> Hi Harish,
> 
> Understand your point of view, but still I'm not convinced that the backlog + 17-June - 15 July 26111's 60ers+65ers for 26111 reached 600 EOI on 15 July  be optimistic mate. Let's hope the report will come out soon, this waiting game is really addicting
> 
> Mind to share your timeline?


Sure: EOI submitted on 07-June-2013 | 60 pts | 2611


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## kzaidi11 (Feb 25, 2013)

Scenario.....

I have already applied for 189 EOI but keeping in mind the ceiling for Bus/System analyst is it possible I initiate 190 SS also (time consuming) .
My question : Can I apply for 2 separate EOIs (189 and 190) at a time?


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## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

kzaidi11 said:


> Scenario.....
> 
> I have already applied for 189 EOI but keeping in mind the ceiling for Bus/System analyst is it possible I initiate 190 SS also (time consuming) .
> My question : Can I apply for 2 separate EOIs (189 and 190) at a time?


Surely you could, you can tick both visa types in one EOI.
Please check here: Myth2
Busting the myths about SkillSelect | Migration Blog


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## kzaidi11 (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks Harish for a prompt reply. Another question 

Should I add 190 to my current submitted EOI ?
or 
Create a new EOI with 190 only 

I am not sure if I add 190 to my current EOI for 189 it might change the date of effect , dont want to leave the queue


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## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

kzaidi11 said:


> Thanks Harish for a prompt reply. Another question
> 
> Should I add 190 to my current submitted EOI ?
> or
> ...


Hi Kzaidi,
The date of effect will be changed if you added the subclass 190 to your EOI(189). I think would be great you consult with Senior members or MARA agent on your cases.
Sorry for not helping much on this matter.


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## Vincentluf (Jun 10, 2013)

Harish2013 said:


> Hi Vincent,
> Yes, in my case, after paid 355AUD, i got the ACS result letter in 2 days for another occupation code. Both assessment are valid.
> 
> But please make sure your reference letter are in line with the ANZSCO job description: http://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/7641/ANZSCO-Code-Descriptions-1-July-2012-V2.pdf
> ...


Hi Harish,

Thanks for your reply, what do you think regard the below Job description can I review for 2613 Analyst Programmer:

************Quote**********
-	creating system specifications for the design and development of system software 

-	identifying, investigating and analyzing business processes and procedures. Then evaluating inefficiencies and proposing recommendation for optimal business practices

-	working with users to formulate, document business requirements and providing functional specifications to system developers

-	creating and implementing system test plans for new systems/processes

-	acting as a main point of contact, providing assistance in the system project decision making process

-	using project management methodologies, principles and techniques for driving internal as well as transversal projects end to end

-	creating user training documentation and conducting training classes

***********Unquote***************************


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## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

Vincentluf said:


> Hi Harish,
> 
> Thanks for your reply, what do you think regard the below Job description can I review for 2613 Analyst Programmer:
> 
> ...



Hi Vincent,
Looks fit for 2613


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## kzaidi11 (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks Harish


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## ashhegde (May 8, 2013)

This thread is a little depressing, as i my agent has submitted my EOI on 13th July and is yet to apply for VIC SS, i am a 261111 er with 60 points ( incl of SN 5 Points) Damn!!!


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## stkwn99 (Jun 26, 2013)

ashhegde said:


> This thread is a little depressing, as i my agent has submitted my EOI on 13th July and is yet to apply for VIC SS, i am a 261111 er with 60 points ( incl of SN 5 Points) Damn!!!


If the estimation is right, then the deadline should be 15-July, rather than 15-June.

If 600 for this round, then 300 ca support 2 months, that means from 5.2x-7.2x..

Cheer up..


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## SaiSundara (May 13, 2013)

Harish2013 said:


> Please note the state sponsor took longer time to process..For example, NSW take around 2 months to process the applications. And in case the 2611 has reached its ceiling limit during the period, then the state will also stop the processing and freeze till next fiscal year to continue...
> 
> But there are others states might process fast, for example, NT, which take around 2-3 weeks to process.
> 
> There are also other option as to review your skill assessment to other ocuption code, for example like 2613..etc Especially if your job duties is similar to other code..And ACS review processed very fast, i reviewed from 2611 to 2613 with only 2 days to get the new result. And both result is valid to be used.


Hi Harish,

I've submitted my ACS application for 261111-ICT Business Analyst on 19-June-2013. I've my iELTS result with band 7 score and expect 65 points with successfull ACS assessment.

Because of the uncertainity around 2611 ceilings, i'm exploring the options for ACS review under 2613. Since you have done the same process, i need your suggestions.

For review from 2611 to 2613, do we need to provide additional ref letters? (since the original ref letters would contain my roles relevant to a BA only and not for a Software Engineer)

Or
is it just fine that we hold the same ref letter and just apply for review under 2613?

Appreciate your advice on this.

Thanks.


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## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

Sri Karthik said:


> Hi Harish,
> 
> I've submitted my ACS application for 261111-ICT Business Analyst on 19-June-2013. I've my iELTS result with band 7 score and expect 65 points with successfull ACS assessment.
> 
> ...


Hi Sri Karthik,
Sorry for the late reply. You have made a correct decision as to review from 2611 to 2613. But you mentioned that you had submitted on 19-june-2013 to ACS for 2611, as according to the ACS timeframe, normally it will take at least 12wks to give the outcome. So please contact ACS as to ask if you could change the code for the on-going submission case. 

Then talk about the code switching, your reference letter has to follow most of the duties as mentioned in the ANZSCO code description for the code you choose: 

http://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/7641/ANZSCO-Code-Descriptions-1-July-2012-V2.pdf

For myself, the duties as written on my reference letter has around 85% fit for both 2611 and 2613, that's why i succeed by submitting same reference letter without any new addition.

Another important factor is your qualifications should be ICT major and high relevant with the code. For myself as Computer Science and Technology..

Hope helps.


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## kzaidi11 (Feb 25, 2013)

15th July Round detailed report is updated on the DIAC website.

881 out of 1380 B/S analyst invitation for the this year have been sent and only 499 are left for the year.

Though the Visa cut of date is 24-05-2013 with 65 points but one of my friend and colleague got his invitation for 261112 , applied on 7th July in 15th July round

We can now analyse the situation with points and dates for 2611 EOIs


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## InaToAus (Mar 20, 2013)

kzaidi11 said:


> 15th July Round detailed report is updated on the DIAC website.
> 
> 881 out of 1380 B/S analyst invitation for the this year have been sent and only 499 are left for the year.
> 
> ...


Is it possible that they forgot to update the cut of date again this time? Looking at the chart it seems that 60ers are now coming back to queue.


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## Chetu (Jan 14, 2013)

Harish2013 said:


> Hi Vincent,
> Thanks for the reply. But most probably 2611 will reach its ceiling limit before those situations happened this time. After all, there should be very few cases for people dont elodge after got invited and there will be 60 days to wait for releasing back one EOI invitation..will the invitation could be released back??
> 
> As for the eligible people, so far i haven't heard any 'rejected' cases because of the ACS new rules, ppl is keeping submitting their EOI.


Hi Harish 
You mean people still claim full exp. points though acs has deducted few years ? Is this happening after july 2013 i.e this years cycle ? 

Thanks,
Chethan


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## alahari20 (Jan 21, 2013)

InaToAus said:


> Is it possible that they forgot to update the cut of date again this time? Looking at the chart it seems that 60ers are now coming back to queue.


Latest occupational ceilings have been updated. Only 500 left out for ICT Business and Systems Analysts. This might be c ompleted by August...


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## jimjimmer (Jun 13, 2013)

InaToAus said:


> Is it possible that they forgot to update the cut of date again this time? Looking at the chart it seems that 60ers are now coming back to queue.


Im not sure how these cut off dates work...Is the report saying that the last application at 65 points was on 24/05/2013, and after that they invite 60 pointers?
And does this therefore mean that 65 pointers should be back on the list again for the invitation round in August? 

Seems to be getting a bit close for comfort this!


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## kzaidi11 (Feb 25, 2013)

I am not sure how they calculate visa cut off date, As I said earlier on of my colleague got an invite (15 july - 261112) with 65 points logged on 7th July !!

Technically there should no 65ers from May or June !!


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## Vincentluf (Jun 10, 2013)

kzaidi11 said:


> I am not sure how they calculate visa cut off date, As I said earlier on of my colleague got an invite (15 july - 261112) with 65 points logged on 7th July !!
> 
> Technically there should no 65ers from May or June !!


Visa 189 
July 15 report shows that 65pts (24 May)
July 01 report shows that 65pts (28 June)

I believe something is wrong here as I know people with 60pts who applied EOI in May got invites. What do you think guys?


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## iff (Jul 30, 2013)

hi,
can you all please help me in looking for my occupation, I'm new here and just have finished study and planning for 485, for that I have to go through skill assessment by acs, now my concern is which occupation should I choose I have finished Adv. diploma in Network security and besides this I have bachelors in Computer Systems.
according to my understanding 263111 may work, what do u all suggest please..


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## Chetu (Jan 14, 2013)

Vincentluf said:


> Visa 189
> July 15 report shows that 65pts (24 May)
> July 01 report shows that 65pts (28 June)
> 
> I believe something is wrong here as I know people with 60pts who applied EOI in May got invites. What do you think guys?


I think its a mistake as you can see from the graph that 60 points were invited


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## Tejas_LCA (Oct 16, 2012)

Folks,

I have submitted my EOI with 60 points for Systems analyst today. Any idea when I can expect invite? I am preparing to take IELTS again as I couldn't score 7 in Writing in my first attempt.


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## Vincentluf (Jun 10, 2013)

Tejas_LCA said:


> Folks,
> 
> I have submitted my EOI with 60 points for Systems analyst today. Any idea when I can expect invite? I am preparing to take IELTS again as I couldn't score 7 in Writing in my first attempt.


I'm in same boat as you, applied today as well. You managed to get 60pts without English Skills?


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## Tejas_LCA (Oct 16, 2012)

Vincentluf said:


> I'm in same boat as you, applied today as well. You managed to get 60pts without English Skills?


Yes, 30 for age, 15 for experience and 15 for Education. I wish I could have scored .5 more in writing.


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## SaiSundara (May 13, 2013)

Harish2013 said:


> Hi Sri Karthik,
> Sorry for the late reply. You have made a correct decision as to review from 2611 to 2613. But you mentioned that you had submitted on 19-june-2013 to ACS for 2611, as according to the ACS timeframe, normally it will take at least 12wks to give the outcome. So please contact ACS as to ask if you could change the code for the on-going submission case.
> 
> Then talk about the code switching, your reference letter has to follow most of the duties as mentioned in the ANZSCO code description for the code you choose:
> ...


Hi Harish,

I have a bachelors in COmputer science and Masters in computer application, so i think qualification shouldn't be an issue in my case, for reviewing against 2613.

However, reg the reference letter i already submitted to ACS for iCT BA, i guess may be around 50% of roles are relevant to Software Engineer and most are in line with ICT BA.

So once i receive my ACS assessment for ICT BA, do i need to add additional docs (Ref Letter) relevant to SE or how should i go about it?

Appreciate your insight.

Thanks


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## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

SaiSundara said:


> Hi Harish,
> 
> I have a bachelors in Computer science and Masters in computer application, so i think qualification shouldn't be an issue in my case, for reviewing against 2613.
> 
> ...


Hi SaiSundara,

I succeed in ACS review that is because of my reference letter fit both BA and SE for around 85% match. In your case, you only have around 50% relevance to SE. So i could not provide my comments whether you could go or not. 

*Below are my thoughts, only for your reference*, you could add additional explanation document to each of your work reference letter. The explanation document should be signed by referrer as well and the content should match with your previous reference letter *but with more details described on the duties as a Software Engineer*. 

At the last step of 'Review', there is form field for you to fill in what changes or additional documents that you have newly uploaded, you could make your summary of all changes or additions with explaination in exact and key words like 'Document A - More detail duty of Software Engineer has been added for companyA employment'..etc

*Please note*, you will need to pay 355 AUD for review process, and if failed, no money is refundable. But the timeline seems far more quicker than new application, maybe few days that you will get the new outcome. And both old result and new one valid. Please check more details to under the 'Review' process FAQ from ACS website.

*At last*, this is *your own decision* as whether go or not. And if possible, *please seek senior MARA agent for professional advice*.


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## Harish2013 (Mar 15, 2013)

Chetu said:


> Hi Harish
> You mean people still claim full exp. points though acs has deducted few years ? Is this happening after july 2013 i.e this years cycle ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Chethan


Hi Chetu,

I mean we have not heard any 'rejected' case by DIAC because of ACS new rule. Maybe there is no such case under CO granting phase so far also might possible. PPL claim their experience whether follow with ACS or not will be their own decision. Take risk or not will be their own decision. But one thing is important that one should never play fire with DIAC and should be always play in the safest way, otherwise the risk would be lose $$$$ and time. Thanks.


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## Vincentluf (Jun 10, 2013)

Harish2013 said:


> Hi Chetu,
> 
> I mean we have not heard any 'rejected' case by DIAC because of ACS new rule. Maybe there is no such case under CO granting phase so far also might possible. PPL claim their experience whether follow with ACS or not will be their own decision. Take risk or not will be their own decision. But one thing is important that one should never play fire with DIAC and should be always play in the safest way, otherwise the risk would be lose $$$$ and time. Thanks.


I've read in some posts that DIAC is considering experience after skilled date. so be careful


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## rroz (Aug 14, 2012)

*anyone got invitation on 5 th Aug for job code: 261111*

Anyone got invitation today 05-Aug-2013, having 60 points?

I have applied for EOI on 20th july and did not get invited today for job code 261111


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## Vincentluf (Jun 10, 2013)

Hello Team,

Can anyone tell me if we can have 2 EOI with two different Occupation like: one 2611 and one 2613 ?


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## rroz (Aug 14, 2012)

Vincentluf said:


> I've read in some posts that DIAC is considering experience after skilled date. so be careful


What does it mean?


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