# An investigative story from the NYT



## travelinhobo (Sep 17, 2010)

For those interested, a new 4 part series from the New York Times...

http://graphics.latimes.com/product-of-mexico-camps/

We really need to return to self-sustainment. Globalization was a horrible experiment.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

travelinhobo said:


> For those interested, a new 4 part series from the New York Times...
> 
> http://graphics.latimes.com/product-of-mexico-camps/
> 
> We really need to return to self-sustainment. Globalization was a horrible experiment.


I agree completely. Let's let big companies and state monopolies set the prices of everything as in the old days. Mexico was such a much more wonderful country when people could legally buy only Mexican-made cars that fell apart in two years, and, and, you couldn't buy Peter Pan peanut butter anywhere in the country.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

travelinhobo said:


> We really need to return to self-sustainment. Globalization was a horrible experiment.


_" ... return to self-sustainment."?_ Not a realistic expectation/goal. 

Mexico has been exporting agricultural products abroad for generations, and the abuses farm laborers have endured have, I've no doubt, existed for all of those years just as they've existed for similar agricultural workers the world-over. 

Consumers as a whole in Mexico, the USA, Canada ... everywhere, want the ability to buy products at a low cost point. Retailers respond to that pressure. 

Indentured servitude is what these people endure and the business/agricultural producer interests always seem to have the advantage and the _government_ looks the other way and for the most part ignores the abuses/harsh conditions. 

Consumers could make some difference in all of this, but probably not too much because it would take a concentrated and sustained Herculean effort ... and the attention span of activists is typically not too long. 

Thanks for posting the link to this _Los Angeles Times_ series of articles.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

travelinhobo said:


> …
> We really need to return to self-sustainment. Globalization was a horrible experiment.


Return? Humans have never been self-contained. 

Even the cave men/women partitioned chores. Men killed the animals, kids gathered the firewood, women cooked. Then villages came along and some people farmed, others baked, some shod horses. Then states came along and some villages ran a steel mill, others a clothing factory, others a mine. 

Globalization is just a continuation of the process.


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## Mitch1717 (Nov 7, 2014)

thank You for sharing this with us. I am not sure what I can do but would love to be able to do something if anyone has an idea for me would like to here it. I talked to my mom and told her about what I just read again not trying to sound mean but the people that run the big stores all they care about is money in there pockets and not the people doing the jobs for them. Well I told her we are not buying produce from them but that would all the stores right? I do not mind that part not buying from them just not sure what good it will do for the farm works who have and half to live like that just to feed and take care of their families.


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## regwill (Jul 2, 2013)

For breakfast they had coffee , a biscuit and a short stack of tortillas . For lunch and dinner , lentil soup . Do they eat biscuits and lentil soup in Mexico ?


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

regwill said:


> For breakfast they had coffee , a biscuit and a short stack of tortillas . For lunch and dinner , lentil soup . Do they eat biscuits and lentil soup in Mexico ?


lentils are grown in Mexico, and I've been served lentil soup on occasion. Not as often as chicken or vegetable soup ... but l don't think lentil soup is a rare find in Mexico. As for "biscuits" ... I'm guessing that _bolillos_ might be more popular. But in a farmworker home, or purchased from a company store, there might be a better availability of biscuits.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Longford said:


> lentils are grown in Mexico, and I've been served lentil soup on occasion. Not as often as chicken or vegetable soup ... but l don't think lentil soup is a rare find in Mexico. As for "biscuits" ... I'm guessing that _bolillos_ might be more popular. But in a farmworker home, or purchased from a company store, there might be a better availability of biscuits.


Mexican lentil soup is wonderful! Not sure what is meant by biscuits.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> Mexican lentil soup is wonderful! Not sure what is meant by biscuits.


A bakery near me makes a lentil bread (pan de lentejas).


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> A bakery near me makes a lentil bread (pan de lentejas).


That sounds interesting. I wonder what it tastes like.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

My wife's family serves Mexican lentil soup all the time. It's delicious! I asked my wife to score the recipe. She did, so now we eat it regularly in our home too.

There is a chain of biscuit restaurants in Mexico City (and maybe beyond DF but I'm not sure). I don't recall the name right now but it's sort of like a Vips that specializes in biscuits.

So, yes, Mexicans eat lentil soup and biscuits.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

circle110 said:


> There is a chain of biscuit restaurants in Mexico City (and maybe beyond DF but I'm not sure). I don't recall the name right now but it's sort of like a Vips that specializes in biscuits.
> 
> So, yes, Mexicans eat lentil soup and biscuits.


The restaurant chain in question is called (surprise, surprise!) Los Bisquets and has many locations around Mexico City. However, it's the only place in the city where I've ever seen biscuits for sale.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

I’m dumbfounded by this thread. This investigative report outlines quite horrific conditions and unethical practices in the export agricultural sector, including child labour, withholding of wages, set-ups which ensure workers will buy necessities at inflated prices at the company store, violations of Mexican Labour Law, non-adherence to the Code of Conduct standards that the companies NOB are claiming as a way of getting to consumers to buy what is being marketed as more ethical food: “No workers were abused in the harvesting of this produce” …. Yeah, right. Names of individuals and corporations are included, which to me legitimizes that what is being presented in the article is verifiable, as I doubt the LA Times wants to open itself up to a libel suit. 

All this and the discussion is focused on whether or not Mexicans eat biscuits?? If you read the Spanish version of the article, the word used is “panecillo”, so probably a better translation in the English language article would have been “roll” rather than biscuit. 

Am I surprised about the practices outlined in this article? No. Do I think more needs to be done to hold the companies accountable, both those NOB and the local Mexican enterprises which are not adhering to the code of conduct they sign? Yes. I think this kind of investigative journalism can make a difference if it raises awareness and enough consumers hold the NOB corporations accountable. Of course consumers want the lowest prices, but clearly enough consumers have also demanded that there be a certain ethical accountability or those Codes of Conduct/Social Responsibility Guidelines would not have been written in the first place. I don’t think they came about due to a fit of conscience by the corporations themselves. 

Do I have “Product of Mexico” tomatoes in my fridge? Yes, along with the Mexican avocadoes on my counter. Am I willing to pay a bit more per pound if it means these kinds of abuses are reduced? You bet your booties, and I know I’m not the only one. But I don’t want to pay a premium for smoke and mirrors, where the Accountability Agreements or whatever they are called aren’t worth the paper they are written on. For me, this type of investigative journalism is crucial to trying to ensure some degree of accountability and verification of claims about fair labour practices.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

ojosazules11 said:


> I’m dumbfounded by this thread. This investigative report outlines quite horrific conditions and unethical practices in the export agricultural sector, including child labour, withholding of wages, set-ups which ensure workers will buy necessities at inflated prices at the company store, violations of Mexican Labour Law, non-adherence to the Code of Conduct standards that the companies NOB are claiming as a way of getting to consumers to buy what is being marketed as more ethical food: “No workers were abused in the harvesting of this produce” …. Yeah, right. Names of individuals and corporations are included, which to me legitimizes that what is being presented in the article is verifiable, as I doubt the LA Times wants to open itself up to a libel suit.


Well, I'm _dumbfounded_ by what seems to be your indignation over suggested sentiments which ... have not been offered, from what I'm reading ... if your reference is indeed directed this discussion. Nobody in the discussion is disputing the Los Angeles Times report. As for the "Code of Conduct": I doubt many people are aware of the existence of such a thing or consider it when making purchases. 



> All this and the discussion is focused on whether or not Mexicans eat biscuits?? If you read the Spanish version of the article, the word used is “panecillo”, so probably a better translation in the English language article would have been “roll” rather than biscuit.


"and the discussion is focused ..." is a stretch, a bit of an exaggeration. Discussions almost always take unexpected turns depending upon what someone writes and how others interpret or want to follow-up on it. The reference to the rolls/lentils is a direct response to something said in the article.



> Of course consumers want the lowest prices, but clearly enough consumers have also demanded that there be a certain ethical accountability or those Codes of Conduct/Social Responsibility Guidelines would not have been written in the first place. I don’t think they came about due to a fit of conscience by the corporations themselves.


If Canadians and "Americans" don't demand better treatment of farmworkers in those two countries, I don't think they'll be advocates for improved conditions in Mexico. The meaningful change for farmworkers in Mexico will have to first originate .... amongst Mexicans.



> Am I willing to pay a bit more per pound if it means these kinds of abuses are reduced? You bet your booties, and I know I’m not the only one.


I don't doubt that millions of consumers in the USA and Canada would pay more, for many products, if the working conditions and wages (at home and abroad) improved. But all too many people demand the most for the least cost.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Of the first 4 posts in response to the OP your response, Longford, and Mitch's did refer to the main content of the article, i.e. the working conditions in fields in Mexico and to the role consumers could play in influencing these labour conditions. The other 2 referenced globalization, and seemed IMO either dismissive of the issues raised in the article or simply did not address them. 

The remaining posts were all in relation to lentil soup and "biscuits" in Mexico. I'm all for thread drift - keeps things interesting - but when I read the article - which didn't surprise me but still impacted me - and then read the thread there seemed to be such a disconnect...


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## travelinhobo (Sep 17, 2010)

OP here. Yes, it was the LA Times, not NYT, sorry.

As for the comments on here, I posted this because even if you don't believe things can change for the better, at least you're informed and aware. I do believe that without being informed, changes can't come about. If the article stays within the confines of LA, and isn't spread to the rest of the country/those involved, then no, nothing will change because not enough will know to care to make change. In the past decade or so, major changes (albeit not enough) have come about internationally due to consumers becoming aware of certain behaviors which, in the 21st century, are no longer acceptable (if ever they were). As stated by a poster above, if enough consumers make noise, they will be heard and change will happen. And this is being said by a person who is as cynical and jaded as they come.


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