# Advice on moving to Sharm El Sheik



## Lindyloo1

I am looking to move from the Uk to Sharm El Sheik and open a small business (beauty Salon) I have an Egyptian husband and at present we are only married under the Orfi contract but looking to marry at the end of the year

Does anyone know what Visa I would need to obtain to live and work in Sharm?

Is it correct that Visa's can only be obtained in Cairo?

The business will be solely in my name along with the rented apartment, my concern is if the visa is not correct I would lose the cash invested in the business and would have to leave.

Any advice in this area would be most greatly appreciated as im due to return Beginning of April

Thanking you in anticipation


----------



## Eco-Mariner

My advice is DON'T....

Go and work for another salon and get wages. 
The licensing laws and the fact that your Muslim husband will be on the business license, any split up or trouble with the local police (and they will give you trouble) will mean you lose all your investments if you fail. The lease on your premises will always give you headaches. Lawyers scam you.... tax officials bleed you, what more do you need to know.

I don't know any foreign small business that has lasted in Sharm. The landlords see you coming.

Alan
p.m. me if you are not understanding me.


----------



## Lindyloo1

If I knew how to private message I would lol... would ypu like to share this with me too


----------



## MaidenScotland

You have to be a regular poster for the pm facility to kick in 

Maiden


----------



## Lindyloo1

Alan, would you recommend then that I put my husbands name solely on the business license? Do you know the pitfalls doing it this way?

Thanks for the reply


----------



## MaidenScotland

Lindyloo1 said:


> Alan, would you recommend then that I put my husbands name solely on the business license? Do you know the pitfalls doing it this way?
> 
> Thanks for the reply




Sorry but I have to say it....... Are you crazy? The business would belong to him and you would have no chance of getting your money back if you split up from him.

Maiden


----------



## Lindyloo1

No im really not crazy.. I just like to know the pitfalls either way, I clearly know he would get the business but I am more thinking of problems with the authorities as this would be more of an issue


----------



## txlstewart

Lindyloo1 said:


> No im really not crazy.. I just like to know the pitfalls either way, I clearly know he would get the business but I am more thinking of problems with the authorities as this would be more of an issue


Let's put the legal issues aside and look at the market you wish to be in:

1. Tourism is down dramatically. This not only would impact your potential foreign customer count, but also might keep locals from using your salon because of limited income.

2. What is the short and long term economic forecast for Sharm? There are some who have already booked their holidays (which are non-refundable), so they will visit, but look out past that. 

3. Sharks and Mubarak--enough said.


----------



## bat

Lindyloo1 said:


> No im really not crazy.. I just like to know the pitfalls either way, I clearly know he would get the business but I am more thinking of problems with the authorities as this would be more of an issue


bat here,
better to come and work for hotel for a while, see how it all works then when your more acclimatized start on a buissness.though sharm is small you need to be sure of your location and who your clients are.


----------



## Sam

Lindyloo1 said:


> I am looking to move from the Uk to Sharm El Sheik and open a small business (beauty Salon) I have an Egyptian husband and at present we are only married under the Orfi contract but looking to marry at the end of the year
> 
> Does anyone know what Visa I would need to obtain to live and work in Sharm?
> 
> Is it correct that Visa's can only be obtained in Cairo?
> 
> The business will be solely in my name along with the rented apartment, my concern is if the visa is not correct I would lose the cash invested in the business and would have to leave.
> 
> Any advice in this area would be most greatly appreciated as im due to return Beginning of April
> 
> Thanking you in anticipation


Hi Lindyloo and welcome,

Okay, where to start. First off you will find yourself facing a lot of negatives because your husband to be is Egyptian/muslim. Whilst it is not something I recommend it is something I and many, many others have done and would not condone you for it. Just be careful and don't let your heart rule your head. Do not listen to advice given to you by everybody, some people like to think they know what they are talking about whilst they are greatly misinformed, so do read up yourself and make sure to get the facts before embarking on anything. Not everyone is out here to scam you, although looking in from the outside it can seem that way sometimes. I have gotten along just fine for the last four years and not been scammed once, yet I have dealt with so many that have. It's mostly common sense with background reading that keeps you safe.

Just because your husband is Egyptian or indeed Muslim does not mean you will lose EVERYTHING if you split up. I will go into the business side of things later in this post, but purely on a marriage basis first. If you are Christian and your husband is Muslim you are not entitled to any inheritance should he pass. If, however, you "convert" to be a Muslim on paper before you marry and are a Muslim in the official marriage certificate then this can be prevented. But anything that YOU own he cannot take from you without your consent.

Also, if you are marrying because he has told you it is the law, then don't. Marry him when you are ready to, do not be rushed into it for religious or cultural reasons, you have your own culture and beliefs after all and he can't call the shots all the time. Again, your relationship though and if it's what you want then go ahead. 

When it comes to the business, then the most common business set up (and the cheapest way for a non-Egyptian to do so) is by having an Egyptian partner with a majority share. It does not have to be your husband but it should be someone your trust. And even if you trust them I recommend if you do go down this route you also protect yourself against his share of the company, which you can do legally as a private agreement.

There is also another way in which you can own 100% of your company. This is more expensive but many people choose to pay more for the reassurance of having complete ownership.

When it comes to the visa, if you are an official owner of a company then you will be granted a business visa, which allows you to work in your own company. If you were to come out here to try living for a while before going head first into your own company then the company you work for have to grant you work permission, but very few people in Sharm working actually have this, it poses few problems.

These official documents can, for the most part, be done in El Tur (about 45 mins from Sharm). For the legal documents whereby you require an official translator it will have to be done in Cairo, Alex or Hurghada. A standard residency visa or work permit can be obtained in Tur.

I hope I have answered all your questions. Do feel free to ask any time.


----------



## Sam

txlstewart said:


> Let's put the legal issues aside and look at the market you wish to be in:
> 
> 1. Tourism is down dramatically. This not only would impact your potential foreign customer count, but also might keep locals from using your salon because of limited income.
> 
> 2. What is the short and long term economic forecast for Sharm? There are some who have already booked their holidays (which are non-refundable), so they will visit, but look out past that.
> 
> 3. Sharks and Mubarak--enough said.


Lol, I love your number 3. Don't forget earthquakes 

In all seriousness, tourism is drastically down in all areas of Egypt and anyone looking to move out here in the near future I would highly recommend have a good financial cushion since there are very few jobs here now and many who have been here for years are having to go home. Now is not really the time for a new business unless you have a super duper idea.

That said, I am hopeful that as the various countries start allowing flights again that tourism will pick up over then next month or two, but nothing more than waiting and watching can confirm that.


----------



## Fiona08

Hi Sam
I wonder if I can ask you a question? You mentioned that even married to an Egptian that property does not automatically go to the wife (if she is Christian). My husband is Egyptian and muslim and I am english and christian and we both married in the UK and where we currently work. However, we are buying into Moona Sharm and although the contract is in my husband's name as an Egyptian that it would automatically pass to me should anything happen to him and they took copies of mjy passport also to confirm this. 
I am a little confused now as you can see and really don't know what to do for the best. Can you advise me please?

Thanks 
Fiona


----------



## bat

Fiona08 said:


> Hi Sam
> I wonder if I can ask you a question? You mentioned that even married to an Egptian that property does not automatically go to the wife (if she is Christian). My husband is Egyptian and muslim and I am english and christian and we both married in the UK and where we currently work. However, we are buying into Moona Sharm and although the contract is in my husband's name as an Egyptian that it would automatically pass to me should anything happen to him and they took copies of mjy passport also to confirm this.
> I am a little confused now as you can see and really don't know what to do for the best. Can you advise me please?
> 
> Thanks
> Fiona


I know this is for Sam but why only in your husbands name why not joint or in yours only !!
Bat


----------



## MaidenScotland

Your husband would have to leave it to you in a will...


----------



## Eco-Mariner

*Next of Kin*



MaidenScotland said:


> Your husband would have to leave it to you in a will...


This has to arranged through a will. Maiden is correct, you make it through the lawyer you used for the signiture validation of the usufruct purchase contract. They don't often tell you this as coming back means they charge you again. 

This is a "caretaker" ownership contract, the leasehold lasts for 99 years and does not necessarily pass to the next of kin unless specifically documented in a valid will.

Without it you have no legal hold on the property. Your UK marriage licence may not hold sway in Egypt either. 

Alan.


----------



## bat

Eco-Mariner said:


> This has to arranged through a will. Maiden is correct, you make it through the lawyer you used for the signiture validation of the usufruct purchase contract. They don't often tell you this as coming back means they charge you again.
> 
> This is a "caretaker" ownership contract, the leasehold lasts for 99 years and does not necessarily pass to the next of kin unless specifically documented in a valid will.
> 
> Without it you have no legal hold on the property. Your UK marriage licence may not hold sway in Egypt either.
> 
> Alan.


If this is a will then it can be changed, I presume. But a decent lawyer would of suggested joint names in the first place!!
Bat


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Precisely.


----------



## aykalam

bat said:


> If this is a will then it can be changed, I presume. But a decent lawyer would of suggested joint names in the first place!!
> Bat


:clap2::clap2::clap2:


----------



## Sam

Fiona08 said:


> Hi Sam
> I wonder if I can ask you a question? You mentioned that even married to an Egptian that property does not automatically go to the wife (if she is Christian). My husband is Egyptian and muslim and I am english and christian and we both married in the UK and where we currently work. However, we are buying into Moona Sharm and although the contract is in my husband's name as an Egyptian that it would automatically pass to me should anything happen to him and they took copies of mjy passport also to confirm this.
> I am a little confused now as you can see and really don't know what to do for the best. Can you advise me please?
> 
> Thanks
> Fiona


Hi Fiona,

Firstly, if you are buying in Moona then I can presume that you have accepted the free legal services offered by the developer, namely the authentication of your contract for signature validation. Unless you have been to another lawyer and asked about passing the property rights to you upon your husband's death, then I can confirm a lawyer has NOT given you this advice, and if you have been to a lawyer then I am sorry to say it but he has given you wrong advice.

Firstly, let's start from the beginning. You say "we" are purchasing the property, who actually PAID for it. Whoever has contributed money should be on the contract. Your husband as an Egyptian can have freehold rights, true, if you have3 joint names and you instead have a Usufruct contract you do not lose out on any rights, you can still enjoy the property and rent it out or do whatever you wish to do with the property as a freehold owner can. My advice to you is if you have paid or are paying for all the property then it should be in your name, if he is contributing then it should be in joint names. I am also telling you now that it is not too late to change this. There are three copies of your contract, one with the developer, one with you, the other one should be with me (not knowing your husband's name I can't confirm, but if you accepted the free legal services then it would be, unless you didn't get that far). If you want to change the contract I am telling you now that I will make it happen for you, personally. Send me here a PM with you email address and I will contact you.

Now, you question. If you continue as is with your husbands name. Firstly, whilst I thank others for their helpful advice, a will is NOT the solution. Many fall into this trap, including lawyers. If your husband has freehold rights then when he passes the property will pass to HIS family in portions as set by a standard set of equations. He CAN write a will, but this will would only be applicable to one third of his property. BUT you also have to remember you cannot OWN property in Sharm el Sheikh, only has usufruct right, so even if he left one third of the property to you in a will you cannot legally OWN this portion of the property. In short, this is NOT the solution. If you choose to keep the property in his name there is a solution which we use to avoid Egyptian inheritance laws for our clients who buy in other parts of Egypt on a freehold basis and the same story applies. But I am not giving our trade secrets out on an open forum for every other lawyer reading this to use as their own, so if you are interested to know more, please PM me again.

If your change the name on the contract and change it to a usufruct contract, once again do NOT fall into the trap so many others do and believe that a will would protect your next of kin's rights. It won't. If you are a usufructuary then you are not an owner, therefore when you die the property automatically reverts back to the freehold owner and a will cannot be applied. A will is only applied on property you OWN. To avoid this then a clause can be written into the contract or an addendum attached to the contract. And contrary to Eco-mariner's beliefs, not every lawyer is out there to scam you and all of our clients have all of this information highlighted to them from the beginning.

I hope I have helped you and not confused you more.


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Sam.

Fiona08 is buying in Moona Sharm. That means a Usufruct contract for the Sinai Peninsular and which either of them can only be looking after the property for the 99 years they only have the leasehold for it. In the case of Sinai, the freehold owner is the Military and/or the State. You have to read her post. 

Fiona will need both her signiture and husbands so in the event only one is alive the lease carries with the partner. If she is paying, all the more reason. If she has not done this because of poor advice (and I know the system very well) she must have these adendums and his will stating she is joint owner and it passes to her. If they decide to sell, what's to stop him taking all the proceeds?

Trade secrets or not.... This sounds like you are aiding and abbetting just like the other bum lawyers. If you know the best way to assist, let everyone know then lawyers will have to address the situation as part of their services, or be exposed as cheats.

I have said many times in the past. Laws are made by lawyers for lawyers.... You know these change to suit their moods. However, these are binding in courts, unless a new government has other ideas.

Alan.


----------



## Sam

Eco-Mariner said:


> Sam.
> 
> Fiona08 is buying in Moona Sharm. That means a Usufruct contract for the Sinai Peninsular and which either of them can only be looking after the property for the 99 years they only have the leasehold for it. In the case of Sinai, the freehold owner is the Military and/or the State. You have to read her post.
> 
> Fiona will need both her signiture and husbands so in the event only one is alive the lease carries with the partner. If she is paying, all the more reason. If she has not done this because of poor advice (and I know the system very well) she must have these adendums and his will stating she is joint owner and it passes to her. If they decide to sell, what's to stop him taking all the proceeds?
> 
> Trade secrets or not.... This sounds like you are aiding and abbetting just like the other bum lawyers. If you know the best way to assist, let everyone know then lawyers will have to address the situation as part of their services, or be exposed as cheats.
> 
> I have said many times in the past. Laws are made by lawyers for lawyers.... You know these change to suit their moods. However, these are binding in courts, unless a new government has other ideas.
> 
> Alan.


Correction... Fiona08's HUSBAND is buying in Moona Sharm, and therefore is still permitted a freehold right on the property as long as the developer is the freehold owner of the land. In the case of Moona the developer is the freehold owner and therefore any Egyptian buying in Moona is entitled to buying freehold. I have read her post very well, maybe it is you that should read it again. Or maybe you should check the due diligence documents of Moona, I have.

Fiona does not NEED her and her husband's signature on the contract if she doesn't want that. She can put her and a sister, she can put as many or as few names as she wishes, and she can also include in the contract as many named next of kin as she wishes in the event all named purchaser died.

"Aiding and abetting just like the other bum lawyers". Perhaps you should know who you are speaking to before jumping to such conclusions. I have told OP she may PM me and I will help her. Why should I reveal the solutions that we have created for every other lawyer to pass off as his own? Already so many techniques coined by our firm have been adopted by other lawyers as their own, and often used incorrectly.

I contribute, and have contributed to this forum for a long time, as an expat giving help, advice and my personal opinions as and where necessary. I will help those that ask for it and need it, and anyone reading who wishes to know further information can PM me to know further information. I help those who need it, I am not about to teach incompetent lawyers how to serve their clients. That is not why I am here.

Sam


----------



## Eco-Mariner

And of course your husband is an Egyptian and who knows the law equally well, Sam.

I'm saying, that if you explain these loopholes on this forum then everyone who reads will use your advice to surmount them. It's not about other lawyers taking advantage, but the members of this forum in general that will benifit.

And you may not now of me either. My background in the field and as as a devil's advocate to the legal profession is well published. It is now time for changes. Hiding truths is not an option.

Alan.


----------



## Horus

Lindyloo1 said:


> I am looking to move from the Uk to Sharm El Sheik and open a small business (beauty Salon) I have an Egyptian husband and at present we are only married under the Orfi contract but looking to marry at the end of the year
> 
> Does anyone know what Visa I would need to obtain to live and work in Sharm?
> 
> Is it correct that Visa's can only be obtained in Cairo?
> 
> The business will be solely in my name along with the rented apartment, my concern is if the visa is not correct I would lose the cash invested in the business and would have to leave.
> 
> Any advice in this area would be most greatly appreciated as im due to return Beginning of April
> 
> Thanking you in anticipation


Resident permit is easy to get just go to El Tor even if you are not entitled they put up no resistence for an extra 200 LE bakeesh stamp stamp stamp welcome to Egypt job done, take your hubby with you he will sort it


----------



## Horus

Sam said:


> I contribute, and have contributed to this forum for a long time, as an expat giving help, advice and my personal opinions as and where necessary. I will help those that ask for it and need it, and anyone reading who wishes to know further information can PM me to know further information. I help those who need it, I am not about to teach incompetent lawyers how to serve their clients. That is not why I am here.
> 
> Sam


Sam is the Sharm guro, she saved me from investing almost £58K in a dud property and has given advice and help and without her input I would not be in my accommodation now

She never asked a penny and strictly refused to accept any money - her chap also knows his legal stuff and is 100% reputable


----------



## MaidenScotland

Horus said:


> Resident permit is easy to get just go to El Tor even if you are not entitled they put up no resistence for an extra 200 LE bakeesh stamp stamp stamp welcome to Egypt job done, take your hubby with you he will sort it




Don't tell me you paid 200LE baksheesh...


----------



## Sam

Eco-Mariner said:


> And of course your husband is an Egyptian and who knows the law equally well, Sam.
> 
> I'm saying, that if you explain these loopholes on this forum then everyone who reads will use your advice to surmount them. It's not about other lawyers taking advantage, but the members of this forum in general that will benifit.
> 
> And you may not now of me either. My background in the field and as as a devil's advocate to the legal profession is well published. It is now time for changes. Hiding truths is not an option.
> 
> Alan.


On the contrary, Mr. Cockayne, you'll be surprised how well I know you. We've even spoken on the phone on more than one occasion 

And, just for some personal background, I am not married but I am working as a legal assistant to a very well respected lawyer who has given me extensive training to be able to answer client queries, which for the most part are similar to the questions that are commonly raised on this forum.

Anyway, this forum is neither about your background, nor mine. I just wanted to let you know that I only speak from knowledge or experience, and if I don't know, I don't say.

Now, Lindyloo, apologies for digressing on your thread.


:focus:


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Hi Sam.... 

As you know, I don't mince words, on the phone or otherwise. Especially when we promotors make the effort to help investors, give them all the information and advice, get them properties only for them to be ripped off by pirates afterwards.

Regards.

Alan.


----------



## Fiona08

Sam said:


> Hi Fiona,
> 
> Firstly, if you are buying in Moona then I can presume that you have accepted the free legal services offered by the developer, namely the authentication of your contract for signature validation. Unless you have been to another lawyer and asked about passing the property rights to you upon your husband's death, then I can confirm a lawyer has NOT given you this advice, and if you have been to a lawyer then I am sorry to say it but he has given you wrong advice.
> 
> Firstly, let's start from the beginning. You say "we" are purchasing the property, who actually PAID for it. Whoever has contributed money should be on the contract. Your husband as an Egyptian can have freehold rights, true, if you have3 joint names and you instead have a Usufruct contract you do not lose out on any rights, you can still enjoy the property and rent it out or do whatever you wish to do with the property as a freehold owner can. My advice to you is if you have paid or are paying for all the property then it should be in your name, if he is contributing then it should be in joint names. I am also telling you now that it is not too late to change this. There are three copies of your contract, one with the developer, one with you, the other one should be with me (not knowing your husband's name I can't confirm, but if you accepted the free legal services then it would be, unless you didn't get that far). If you want to change the contract I am telling you now that I will make it happen for you, personally. Send me here a PM with you email address and I will contact you.
> 
> Now, you question. If you continue as is with your husbands name. Firstly, whilst I thank others for their helpful advice, a will is NOT the solution. Many fall into this trap, including lawyers. If your husband has freehold rights then when he passes the property will pass to HIS family in portions as set by a standard set of equations. He CAN write a will, but this will would only be applicable to one third of his property. BUT you also have to remember you cannot OWN property in Sharm el Sheikh, only has usufruct right, so even if he left one third of the property to you in a will you cannot legally OWN this portion of the property. In short, this is NOT the solution. If you choose to keep the property in his name there is a solution which we use to avoid Egyptian inheritance laws for our clients who buy in other parts of Egypt on a freehold basis and the same story applies. But I am not giving our trade secrets out on an open forum for every other lawyer reading this to use as their own, so if you are interested to know more, please PM me again.
> 
> If your change the name on the contract and change it to a usufruct contract, once again do NOT fall into the trap so many others do and believe that a will would protect your next of kin's rights. It won't. If you are a usufructuary then you are not an owner, therefore when you die the property automatically reverts back to the freehold owner and a will cannot be applied. A will is only applied on property you OWN. To avoid this then a clause can be written into the contract or an addendum attached to the contract. And contrary to Eco-mariner's beliefs, not every lawyer is out there to scam you and all of our clients have all of this information highlighted to them from the beginning.
> 
> I hope I have helped you and not confused you more.


Hi Sam

Thanks a lot for your reply. Yes you are right, our agents spoke to my husband, Khaled and suggested that if it were to be in his name, he could have freehold or it would indeed have to be leasehold. We decided to go for the freehold, but were then told, when asked that it would automatically pass to me as they had evidence that I was his wife. 
I understand completely what you are saying and we would both feel easier if it were in joint names to resolve any issues - not that we currently have any about it. Yes, we are BOTH paying for the property, equal shares, although when you are married you don't count out equal pennies etc. 

unfortunately, Sam I do not have access yet to PM but would really love to contact you regarding this as i feel that you can help us with this. 

Thanks for your knowledge about this and also about a lot other threads, I find it so very helpful. 

Fiona and khaled Elnouby


----------



## Sam

Fiona08 said:


> Hi Sam
> 
> Thanks a lot for your reply. Yes you are right, our agents spoke to my husband, Khaled and suggested that if it were to be in his name, he could have freehold or it would indeed have to be leasehold. We decided to go for the freehold, but were then told, when asked that it would automatically pass to me as they had evidence that I was his wife.
> I understand completely what you are saying and we would both feel easier if it were in joint names to resolve any issues - not that we currently have any about it. Yes, we are BOTH paying for the property, equal shares, although when you are married you don't count out equal pennies etc.
> 
> unfortunately, Sam I do not have access yet to PM but would really love to contact you regarding this as i feel that you can help us with this.
> 
> Thanks for your knowledge about this and also about a lot other threads, I find it so very helpful.
> 
> Fiona and khaled Elnouby


Yes, I completely understand. My ex and I also jointly paid for our property and put it in both of our names in an equal share. Many people have asked me over the years who ACTUALLY paid more, but as you say, you don't count the pennies in the relationship.

You mentioned you are Khaled's wife, do you mean the lawyer from Luxor? If so then I imagine he would be doing all the legal procedures, but when it comes to contract changes then as the developer's lawyer that is down to us. You have more than 5 posts so PM facility should be open for you now. I will try to send you one for you to reply


----------

