# Is Australian PhD count as work experience?



## chichbong (Apr 23, 2013)

Hi everybody, Does anyone here know Australian PhD study period is assessed as Australian work experience by VETASSESS? 
Thank you


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## buddi (Mar 2, 2011)

Unfortunately, I don't think so. It doesn't matter whether it is an Australian PhD or anywhere else. Studying for your PhD is not the same as working. Nonetheless, if you have postdoc experience then it is a different story. Yes, postdoc experience can be counted.




chichbong said:


> Hi everybody, Does anyone here know Australian PhD study period is assessed as Australian work experience by VETASSESS?
> Thank you


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## ozbound12 (Mar 23, 2012)

chichbong said:


> Hi everybody, Does anyone here know Australian PhD study period is assessed as Australian work experience by VETASSESS?
> Thank you


No it does not.


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## hunganh07 (Mar 29, 2012)

If you did your PhD and you get paid (like a job), then you can claim for work experience. If you got a scholarship to do your PhD, your work experience is not counted in this case.


"In order to consider employment undertaken whilst completing a PhD for Points Test purposes, the employment would need to be paid, at least 40 hours per fortnight and the tasks performed should be at the required skill level and highly relevant/closely related to the nominated occupation. PhD research tasks which are unpaid, or paid a stipend or scholarship cannot be assessed for employment under the Points Test Assessment"


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## JoannaAch (Oct 11, 2011)

ozbound12 said:


> No it does not.


It does, in some specific cases. If during your PhD training you were paid salary or scholarship and was working full-time in the lab VETASSESS might consider it as employment. Of course, it would be easier to get your postdoctoral experience assessed, but if you do not have any experience post your PhD yet, you might consider asking VETASSESS for clarification. 

I know a few people (including me) that got their positive assessment based on experience during PhD training.


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2013)

JoannaAch said:


> It does, in some specific cases. If during your PhD training you were paid salary or scholarship and was working full-time in the lab VETASSESS might consider it as employment. Of course, it would be easier to get your postdoctoral experience assessed, but if you do not have any experience post your PhD yet, you might consider asking VETASSESS for clarification.
> 
> I know a few people (including me) that got their positive assessment based on experience during PhD training.


 And what does vetasses have to do with meeting DIACs requirements for the visa which requires paid full time employment which a scholarship and study does not meet. So still ensure you will meet DIACS requirements too.


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## JoannaAch (Oct 11, 2011)

_shel said:


> And what does vetasses have to do with meeting DIACs requirements for the visa which requires paid full time employment which a scholarship and study does not meet. So still ensure you will meet DIACS requirements too.


Yes, that is probably true. But the question was about skills assessment and as DIAC does not require any work experience, just positive skills assessment, PhD students have a chance to get their visas


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2013)

Aye but still before wasting money on assessments people need to ensure they can meet DIACs requirements. Its one thing often confused. People assuming that because the skills assessment accepted experience DIAC will too, but not so as they all have very different rules.


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## hunganh07 (Mar 29, 2012)

I am amazed by your IELTS score. You must some tips there that I would like to know


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## JoannaAch (Oct 11, 2011)

_shel said:


> Aye but still before wasting money on assessments people need to ensure they can meet DIACs requirements. Its one thing often confused. People assuming that because the skills assessment accepted experience DIAC will too, but not so as they all have very different rules.


But as long as you do not claim any points for experience, you should be fine, right? I know that DIAC may still verify the work experience, but isn't it just related to security etc.?


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2013)

Yes they will check employment anyway but more for security to show you were where you said you were and not off fighting with the foreign legion! 

If you have other work experience that qualifies you can claim points for that, just not the period DIAC wouldn't count so you don't overclaim.


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## geneticcode (Jun 24, 2013)

JoannaAch said:


> It does, in some specific cases. If during your PhD training you were paid salary or scholarship and was working full-time in the lab VETASSESS might consider it as employment. Of course, it would be easier to get your postdoctoral experience assessed, but if you do not have any experience post your PhD yet, you might consider asking VETASSESS for clarification.
> 
> I know a few people (including me) that got their positive assessment based on experience during PhD training.


Hi JoannaAch,

If you don't mind, can you please advise me what kind of documents you have sent to vetassess for your work experience evidence?

Here is some statement on my payslip.
Entity: University Administration 
Branch: Exception Based Employees
Job Title: PhD Scholarship
Position: Bulk Research Scholar
Hours/week: 36

Kind regards,


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## JoannaAch (Oct 11, 2011)

Hi,
I only sent my CV, a reference letter from my employer (I included as many tasks mentioned in the job description on Vetassess website), 2 payslips (the first one and the latest one), the first page of my contract and a Career development plan (I had it prepared for some EU grant applications). 
But on my payslip/ contract it states that I have been paid salary not scholarship...


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## Beee (Jun 20, 2011)

I have a similar question. We are on 489 Family sponsored visa. To apply for 887 permanent residency we have to live in a designated area for two years and work for 1 out of those two years (it can be any type of work; odd job, 2 odd jobs, just have to complete 35 hours per week). My question is, if one starts PhD full-time in a university in the designated area, would that be counted as working?


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## geneticcode (Jun 24, 2013)

Hi,

I found this on Vetassess:"PhD research tasks which are unpaid, or paid a stipend or scholarship cannot be assessed for employment under the Points Test Assessment." 

Correct me if I'm wrong. I assume that if you are Research scholar, which means you get paid by project, then you could claim PhD experience. 

Anyway, I jut got Advisory Letter for Point Test purpose from Vetassess for my PhD study. However, I am not sure if DIBP will be happy with it for Work experience because I haven't lodged EOI yet?

Have anyone successfully claimed 10 pt as work experience for PhD study?


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi geneticcode, 

I got 5 years of PhD work assessed as "skilled employment" by ACS. I was employed on industry projects and as a lecturer (= no stipend or scholarship). I claimed work experience points for all 5 years as this was prior to the "deemed skilled date" change and we got our grant more than a year ago .


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## McJim (Nov 29, 2013)

geneticcode said:


> Hi,
> 
> I found this on Vetassess:"PhD research tasks which are unpaid, or paid a stipend or scholarship cannot be assessed for employment under the Points Test Assessment."
> 
> ...


Hi geneticcode,
What was the statement mentioned by Vetassess in your PTA regarding your PhD employment? If it did not mention your PhD employment as "relevant", I would doubt that you could claim for points here.
P/s: I see you from Brisbane and hopefully I can move there next year!


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## McJim (Nov 29, 2013)

espresso said:


> Hi geneticcode,
> 
> I got 5 years of PhD work assessed as "skilled employment" by ACS. I was employed on industry projects and as a lecturer (= no stipend or scholarship). I claimed work experience points for all 5 years as this was prior to the "deemed skilled date" change and we got our grant more than a year ago .


Hi espresso,
Do you remember what documents that you sent to DIBP to claim your 5 year PhD employment?


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi McJim, 

reference letters, tax return documents for every year and heaps of payslips . The reference letters were the most important, actually. I provided a breakdown of how much time was spent on "software engineering" tasks (which was the ANZSCO code I had nominated) and how much I spent on teaching. Luckily, I (almost) always got across the 20hr/week threshold and only "lost" a couple of months where I'd been between projects.


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## McJim (Nov 29, 2013)

Many thanks, espresso for your kind reply!


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## Scattley (Jul 30, 2012)

There is a difference between what espresso was which was doing the PhD on the side (this is how I am reading it, correct me if wrong) but being employed as a researcher, and doing a PhD for which you are under scholarship. The former means your PhD takes much longer because it's only a part of your day to day work, the latter is a 3-4 year time scale for which the money runs out after 3 years. By far the most common is the latter, the former is usually if you a doing the PhD under an industry like a pharmaceutical company, not a university


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## geneticcode (Jun 24, 2013)

Hi,

My PTA stated that:"the following claims of skilled employment made y the applicants are assessed as employment of at least 40 hrs fer fortnight which is at an appropriate skill level and closely related to the nominated occupation"

My PhD stipend was paid by an industrial project and I also got fee waiver from University.

What do you guys think?


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## Scattley (Jul 30, 2012)

If you were paying tax then it counts but stipends are scholarships and they were paying the uni fees (although they are usually waived anyway for phd )....it still comes across as not work experience but study.


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## geneticcode (Jun 24, 2013)

Scattley said:


> If you were paying tax then it counts but stipends are scholarships and they were paying the uni fees (although they are usually waived anyway for phd )....it still comes across as not work experience but study.


Thanks Scattley and Espresso for your comments.

Would you mind having your comment on my payslip attached?

Thank you.


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## Scattley (Jul 30, 2012)

geneticcode said:


> Thanks Scattley and Espresso for your comments.
> 
> Would you mind having your comment on my payslip attached?
> 
> Thank you.


No tax that fortnight....its a scholarship not a job..so it does not count as work experience.


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## geneticcode (Jun 24, 2013)

Thanks Scattley for your reply.


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## JoannaAch (Oct 11, 2011)

geneticcode said:


> Thanks Scattley and Espresso for your comments.
> 
> Would you mind having your comment on my payslip attached?
> 
> Thank you.


Do you need to claim points for your work experience? You can get a positive assessment from Vetassess based on your PhD experience, so maybe just take IELTS and claim 20points and you won't be needing points for employment at all?
I saw in some of your earlier posts that you would like to claim 10 points for experience, is it all only for your PhD work?


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## geneticcode (Jun 24, 2013)

Thanks JoannaAch. With your suggestion last time, I got skill assessment now.

My IELTS is 7.0, so I just want to figure out whether I can have points from work experiment of my PhD.


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## JoannaAch (Oct 11, 2011)

geneticcode said:


> Thanks JoannaAch. With your suggestion last time, I got skill assessment now.
> 
> My IELTS is 7.0, so I just want to figure out whether I can have points from work experiment of my PhD.


I am not sure anybody will be able to give you a straight answer. I know one person that claimed points for employment while doing PhD, but she did it in Europe and was paid a normal salary with taxes etc. The PhD scholarship in Australia is very low and not taxable, so I am not sure if DIBP will consider it "skilled employment". Usually employees pay taxes...
You risk loosing few thousand $$, if your CO decides that you can't get points for it...
If I were you, I would just practice IELTS some more and re-take it. You can easily score all 8s after a PhD 
Other option would be to ask a MARA agent for advice, however I am not sure they will be able to tell you in 100% if your application will be approved...


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## cc112358 (Jul 20, 2014)

JoannaAch said:


> I am not sure anybody will be able to give you a straight answer. I know one person that claimed points for employment while doing PhD, but she did it in Europe and was paid a normal salary with taxes etc. The PhD scholarship in Australia is very low and not taxable, so I am not sure if DIBP will consider it "skilled employment". Usually employees pay taxes...
> You risk loosing few thousand $$, if your CO decides that you can't get points for it...
> If I were you, I would just practice IELTS some more and re-take it. You can easily score all 8s after a PhD
> Other option would be to ask a MARA agent for advice, however I am not sure they will be able to tell you in 100% if your application will be approved...


Hi, I am now in a similar situation, i get paid by australian PhD scholarship. but i am not going to claim it as work experience, i just need it to re-validation my ACS skill assessment, since my assessment is about to expire. Do you have any ideas on my case?


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## najeeb124 (Oct 5, 2015)

*PhD experience*

Hi, 
I was paid through a scholarship, and Vetassess positively assessed my PhD experience (2.5 years). I lodged an EIO and on the basis of claimed points (5 points) I got invitation for visa application. Now I am worried if the case officer may refuse my application as my claim for PhD experience was not correct.
Can anyone guide me, if I should process this application or not, my invitation will be expiring soon. I have 60 points without PhD experience, should I lodge a new EOI?

Many thanks for your help.
Najeeb


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## Appledeuce (Aug 2, 2014)

najeeb124 said:


> Hi,
> I was paid through a scholarship, and Vetassess positively assessed my PhD experience (2.5 years). I lodged an EIO and on the basis of claimed points (5 points) I got invitation for visa application. Now I am worried if the case officer may refuse my application as my claim for PhD experience was not correct.
> Can anyone guide me, if I should process this application or not, my invitation will be expiring soon. I have 60 points without PhD experience, should I lodge a new EOI?
> 
> ...


Can you post your points breakdown? I don't understand what you mean by "on the basis of claimed points (5 points)". Did you or did you not claim points for skilled employment?


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## serenayu (Jan 12, 2016)

I found a piece of statement on vetassess's website as below so there should not be any problem with the skill assessment itself. However the DIBP is not vetassess and I am not sure if they will go through a direct conflict against vetassess's work experience assessment.

vetassess.com.au/Skills-Assessment-for-Migration/General-Occupations/Nominate-an-Occupation
Can my PhD studies be considered as work experience for Skills Assessment?
For a number of occupations, it may be possible to consider your doctoral studies to meet our skills assessment requirement if the work is at an appropriate skill level, is at least 20 working hours per week, and you are paid. You are required to provide official evidence supporting paid employment at this level. Official evidence would include: research publications; a statement of service from the Head of the Department indicating the significance of the research and your tasks; how you are remunerated. Please note that evidence of remuneration would include scholarship grants (full tuition fee coverage and stipend) at doctoral degree (research) level.
Please also note that the employment/research period may only be considered suitable if the area of research is assessed as highly relevant to your nominated occupation. PhD research which is unpaid cannot be assessed.


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## MimoMKF (Jan 9, 2016)

JoannaAch said:


> It does, in some specific cases. If during your PhD training you were paid salary or scholarship and was working full-time in the lab VETASSESS might consider it as employment. Of course, it would be easier to get your postdoctoral experience assessed, but if you do not have any experience post your PhD yet, you might consider asking VETASSESS for clarification.
> 
> I know a few people (including me) that got their positive assessment based on experience during PhD training.



My PhD research work is positively assessed by VETASSESS and i got state nomination as well. The thing now that CO is asking for more information, so what can do ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i have already provided them with reference letter and payslip.


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## MimoMKF (Jan 9, 2016)

espresso said:


> Hi geneticcode,
> 
> I got 5 years of PhD work assessed as "skilled employment" by ACS. I was employed on industry projects and as a lecturer (= no stipend or scholarship). I claimed work experience points for all 5 years as this was prior to the "deemed skilled date" change and we got our grant more than a year ago .


Hi,
I only sent my CV, a reference letter from my employer (I included as many tasks mentioned in the job description on Vetassess website), 2 payslips (the first one and the latest one), the first page of my contract and a Career development plan (I had it prepared for some EU grant applications). 
But on my payslip/ contract it states that I have been paid salary not scholarship...


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## MimoMKF (Jan 9, 2016)

najeeb124 said:


> Hi,
> I was paid through a scholarship, and Vetassess positively assessed my PhD experience (2.5 years). I lodged an EIO and on the basis of claimed points (5 points) I got invitation for visa application. Now I am worried if the case officer may refuse my application as my claim for PhD experience was not correct.
> Can anyone guide me, if I should process this application or not, my invitation will be expiring soon. I have 60 points without PhD experience, should I lodge a new EOI?
> 
> ...


I am on the same boat. Could you plz tell me what you did?


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## Junaijo (Feb 1, 2016)

Hi guys,

I just got a positive assessment from Vetassess for Education Manager nec (ANZSCO Code 134499). Now, I have created a SkillsSelect account. In completing the work experience, I have listed my PhD paid research under Australina Leadership and the pay evidence from my Australian bank account says it is salary every time they pay me living allowance, I am listing that as paid PhD research and as a job in Australia. Vetassess say that in their website too.

My concern is would my paid PhD research is regarded as closely related to my approved occupation, which is Education Manager nec (ANZSCO Code 134499). If I select so, I will get 65. Right now it is 55. I am going for visa subclass 190 for state sponsorship. In that also, should select all states or one state which is Queensland for me, because I am a Queensland PhD graduate.

Your advice is much appreciated,

Kind regards.


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## Dr 12 (Apr 8, 2016)

JoannaAch said:


> It does, in some specific cases. If during your PhD training you were paid salary or scholarship and was working full-time in the lab VETASSESS might consider it as employment. Of course, it would be easier to get your postdoctoral experience assessed, but if you do not have any experience post your PhD yet, you might consider asking VETASSESS for clarification.
> 
> I know a few people (including me) that got their positive assessment based on experience during PhD training.




Hi, I am also doing Ph.D., working full-time and getting scholarship from Government to complete my research study. Sooner, I am applying for 190 visa.
Can you tell me your case in detail? On what grounds VETASSES accept your skills and one get positive assessment


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## Dr 12 (Apr 8, 2016)

McJim said:


> Hi geneticcode,
> What was the statement mentioned by Vetassess in your PTA regarding your PhD employment? If it did not mention your PhD employment as "relevant", I would doubt that you could claim for points here.
> P/s: I see you from Brisbane and hopefully I can move there next year!


Hi, May I know on what grounds they consider a PhD relevant?


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## najeeb124 (Oct 5, 2015)

MimoMKF said:


> I am on the same boat. Could you plz tell me what you did?


I did not claim points for PhD experience, as the immigration agents I consulted discouraged to claim these points.
Najeeb


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## najeeb124 (Oct 5, 2015)

najeeb124 said:


> I did not claim points for PhD experience, as the immigration agents I consulted discouraged to claim these points.
> Najeeb


...............


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## najeeb124 (Oct 5, 2015)

I did not claim points for PhD experience, as the immigration agents I consulted discouraged to claim these points.
Najeeb


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## zahanggir (Feb 2, 2015)

Hi All,

I want to apply for 189 visa. I want to claim my one year Ph.D. time as professional experience of Civil Engineer. My skill assessment is complete but I do not asses the Australian experience. I get the scholarship from an Australian industry and working with them. This is closely related to my occupation. I have the pay slip from the university which mentioned as scholarship and experience certificate from industry which mentioned my work is closely related to my occupation.

Can I claim this as professional experience?


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## Man2015 (Nov 26, 2016)

*Overseas PhD experience points claim*

I have submitted my EOI under Stream 2 category in mid Nov 2016. 

I have a PhD from USA and a B.Tech from India.
Vetassess povided me with a positive skills assessment and 7.8 years of work experience,
Howevver, 4 years of the total experience is my PhD research work experience. I was paid a monthly salary (I provided proofs of paid employment and a tax summary to vetassess) as a research assistant during my PhD. 

I am seeing conflicting posts on various forums about DIBP's approach towrads assessment of PhD experience. Is anyone on the forum aware of successful visa grants where PhD work experience is used for point calculation? Can I claim points for my PhD experience since Vetassess has validated my experience? 

Thanks 
Man2015


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## Ceres (Jul 16, 2017)

*Mr*

About using Phd as work experience, following information is available on Vetassess website:

"Can my PhD studies be considered as work experience for Skills Assessment?

For *scientific occupations* such as Agricultural Scientist, Physicist and Chemist, it may be possible to consider your doctoral studies to meet our skills assessment requirement if the work is at an appropriate skill level, is at least 20 working hours per week, and you are paid. You are required to provide official evidence supporting paid employment at this level. Official evidence would include: research publications; a statement of service from the Head of the Department indicating the significance of the research and your tasks; how you are remunerated. Please note that evidence of remuneration would include scholarship grants (full tuition fee coverage and stipend) at doctoral degree (research) level.

Please also note that the employment/research period may only be considered suitable if the research work undertaken closely matches major tasks usually undertaken in that occupation in Australia. PhD research which is unpaid cannot be assessed."

Can someone please advise me if it is applicable for scientific occupations only? Mine PhD is in organisational change management - it was a management consultancy project for a real life organisation and I performed all the tasks as mentioned under the profession of Organisation and Methods Analyst (224712). So can that project be considered as work experience for skill assessment?

I would really appreciate your kind response in this regard. 

Cheers

Ceres


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## parth1310 (Jul 30, 2017)

Ceres said:


> About using Phd as work experience, following information is available on Vetassess website:
> 
> "Can my PhD studies be considered as work experience for Skills Assessment?
> 
> ...



As long as you conducted doctoral studies highly relevant to your nominated occupation, worked at-least 20 hours, and were paid for it, I don't see any reason why your PhD project should not be considered for skills assessment. However, its just my opinion. Best option; call or email VETASSESS.


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## Subhash Koirala (Dec 13, 2017)

Junaijo said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I just got a positive assessment from Vetassess for Education Manager nec (ANZSCO Code 134499). Now, I have created a SkillsSelect account. In completing the work experience, I have listed my PhD paid research under Australina Leadership and the pay evidence from my Australian bank account says it is salary every time they pay me living allowance, I am listing that as paid PhD research and as a job in Australia. Vetassess say that in their website too.
> 
> ...


Hi Junaijo, I am now in a similar situation as yours and so would really appreciate your help, please.

I am planning to apply for a Skill Assessment for "Education Manager". I've completed Bachelor's degree and Master's degree in Education (but the specialization in English) and my PhD in education. Do you think my Bachelor's plaus Master's degree qualification will be suffice as highly relevant qualification for "Education Manager" so I can use my PhD as a work experience. As part of my Bachelor's and Master's degree, I have studied: Foundation of education, education psychology and curriculum, teaching methods and some units related to English language teaching. However, I don't have any units re: education administration/management. If you have used a consultancy for a Skill Assessment, could you please send me his/her contact details please so I will use the same one. Your help is really appreciated.


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## Subhash Koirala (Dec 13, 2017)

Hi Everyone,

I have a specific question about skill assessment from VETASSESS for Education Manager (ANZSCO Code: 134499). I have completed a Bachelor's degree and Master's degree from Nepal in education (specialization English). As part of my Bachelor and Master's degree, I've studied the following units: education psychology, curriculum, teaching methods, foundation of education and I have also studied some ELT related units e.g. applied linguistics, teaching English. I have recently completed my PhD in Education (investigaged teaching perceptions of teacher and students). Whilst doing my PhD, I have worked as a Project Officer (education) for one year in Australia. Do you think I will be qualified for a skill assessment for Education Manager? Is my Master's and Bachelor's degree qualification suffice as highly relevant qualification? So, I can use either my PhD (scholarship) or Project Officer (education) job as post-qualification employment? Do you have any Migrant Agents contact who have a particular experience in dealing with clients seeking to apply for "education manager".


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## rtcteacher (Jan 5, 2018)

Hello All,

I am a PhD student in Australia. Can I apply for a PR under subclass 189.

thanks


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

rtcteacher said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I am a PhD student in Australia. Can I apply for a PR under subclass 189.
> 
> thanks


Go through this thread

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...-australia-what-you-need-know-read-first.html

Cheers


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## Satyant (Aug 12, 2018)

Can anyone advise me on whether assigning Aus PhD as employment or qualification after Vetassess, pls?

In the Vetassess results, I got a positive result with 9.1 yrs employment and qualification listed as Bachelor and Masters in Forestry. When I applied for skill assessment I haven't completed my PhD so I requested it to be assessed for work experience. 
In the Test Point Advice, 3 items: the current work, the PhD study and work prior to my PhD are listed. 
My PhD was awarded a month ago and now for EoI, I am planning to use it as qualifications instead of employment to get a higher score, i.e.
age: 25
english: 10
PhD+specialist education+Australia study: 20+5+5
employment prior to PhD (outside Aus): 10

if I have the PhD as employment the score would be 70 as my MSc was from the Netherlands (15).

Please advise. I am planning to go for the Foresters. What is the cut-off score for this position, if anyone knows?

Thanks


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