# Help with education please.



## Bob S (Nov 19, 2017)

Looking at the various threads here I see that some people spend years investigating before they make the decision to move to Spain. My wife and I have decided that we need to do it now - which as will be clear in a moment is realistically in time for new school term in 2018. We have 2 children aged 7 and 11. I'm (Polish) British but my wife and kids are Polish with varying levels of English - certainly not good enough to make it worth going to an international school.We're looking at the area inland from Denia, so Ontinyent, Alcoy, Monte Pego. Have heard that a better option than pure state schools are concertados. Can anybody help or advise please? We intend spending most of January checking out the area.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Hi, I live in Ontinyent with my family have have done so for the past 11 years.

The problem with concertados (for certain here but probably everywhere) is that they have a long waiting list. To get into one in Ontinyent, you either have to move through the system from primary or be EXTREMELY lucky. The other issue is for your 11 year old - unless they are fluent in Spanish NOW, then they'll struggle - there is not a lot of extra help given at ESO (secondary) level.

If you have any specific questions, please feel free to contact me when you have sufficient posts.


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## Bob S (Nov 19, 2017)

Thanks for your quick response. If I understand you correctly, unless I send them to a full fee paying private school, they will have to go to a state school and wait patiently until they can be accepted at a concerted? I have heard that as a foreigner we would likely be assigned (!) to a state school 'specialized' in foreigners which could mean a VERY wide palette of interest in a better standard of education. Is there a way 'around' the waiting list to a concertedo?


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Bob S said:


> Thanks for your quick response. If I understand you correctly, unless I send them to a full fee paying private school, they will have to go to a state school and wait patiently until they can be accepted at a concerted? I have heard that as a foreigner we would likely be assigned (!) to a state school 'specialized' in foreigners which could mean a VERY wide palette of interest in a better standard of education. Is there a way 'around' the waiting list to a concertedo?


There are no state school specializing in foreigners. Any resident - foreigner or not - can choose any state school they'd like as long as it has space available for your child. The fact that you are a foreigner does not enter into the equation. During the regular enrollment period in the spring you are given preference for the school in your catchment area, but you are free to request enrollment in a different school. 

There's really no way to jump the waiting list for a concertado. Since they are run using government money they must follow government guidelines concerning enrollment. That means preference is given if you live or work in the catchment area or if the child has a brother or sister already enrolled in the school. As somebody already mentioned, the chances of getting into one from a waiting list are slim to none. 

I would be more concerned about how an 11 year old would adapt to a school with all of the subjects taught in a language that's foreign to him, no matter what school it is. Little extra help is given and I suspect he would struggle massively.


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## Bob S (Nov 19, 2017)

Thanks for that info. It was elsewhere that I read about the 'allocation' which results in all foreigners being 'herded into' one school. So maybe not normal but specific to that particular locality.
I hear what you say about the 11 yr old struggling but again I've heard (?) that repeating a year in spanish schools is not that dramatic a thing.... BUT will take it into account. 
Again - Thanks for the input. All 'donations' of this type gratefully received,


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

kalohi said:


> There are no state school specializing in foreigners. Any resident - foreigner or not - can choose any state school they'd like as long as it has space available for your child.


I'd just like to point out that this is not/was not the case here in town.

When we first arrived with our three children, we arrived in January. We went straight to the town hall as we'd missed the normal enrolment date. We were told that a school would be assigned based on the fact that we were foreigners and that our children would need extra help with the languages (Spanish AND Valencian).

The school that we were assigned was well known for taking most of the foreigners in the area Moroccans, Bulgarians, Romanians, Russians and us the English.

When our eldest was about to leave primary we followed the accepted procedure and filled in the required forms with our 1st, 2nd and 3rd choices. Based on points scored, and number of places available, we managed to get our first choice - but only just. I think it was partly down to the novelty of being English.

I have since heard that it's extremely hard to get into the 3 concertados in our town unless you have siblings already there or unless you've come up 'through the ranks'.

Just my experience. I don't know if they still allocate foreigners in this way or whether one has a choice.


I should have said that our eldest was 10 and then twins at 8. Only our daughter (8 at the time) had to repeat a year - with no detriment to her education!


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## Bob S (Nov 19, 2017)

I think that what worries me is that there are different reasons for people being foreigners in a given country and that can be associated with their situation 'back home'. Like any parent, I want 'the best' for my children...and that's what I'm looking for.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> I'd just like to point out that this is not/was not the case here in town.
> 
> When we first arrived with our three children, we arrived in January. We went straight to the town hall as we'd missed the normal enrolment date. We were told that a school would be assigned based on the fact that we were foreigners and that our children would need extra help with the languages (Spanish AND Valencian).
> 
> ...


It probably does vary somewhat town to town. 

Here, places are allocated geographically, as they are in the UK. The nationality of the child, nor ability to speak the language(s) doesn't come into it. I do know however, that in the next town, any child of secondary school age who arrives & doesn't speak Spanish will be allocated a certain school.

You can request a particular school outside your geographical catchment, (concertado or not) but you might not get it - unless there are siblings already at the school, in which case you are more likely to get a place, if one is available.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Around here, and I'm sure it's pretty much national, it's all based on points.

You get so many points for geographical proximity, some points for having siblings there, points for financial status (strange but true), etc. The more points you get, the higher up the list you are when it comes to allocating places.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

It's true that many, many Spanish children repeat a year at school. It's pretty rare in Primary school and if they do it will most likely be in the last year 11 - 12, so then they'd be 13 going into secondary school joining a class of 12 year olds. 
In secondary school they tend to want children to repeat at the end of a cycle and each cycle is 2 years.

Repeating a year, although very common and pretty much accepted, is not always a great idea. The child can lose friendships. For some children going over the same material with the same books and the same teachers is the best thing that can happen. For others it's deathly boring and school no longer holds any appeal. 

However going to school for a whole year and struggling from the word go is hardly fun either.

It's very tough, or at least can be for "older" kids and it all needs to be taken into consideration when thinking of a move.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> It's true that many, many Spanish children repeat a year at school. It's pretty rare in Primary school and if they do it will most likely be in the last year 11 - 12, so then they'd be 13 going into secondary school joining a class of 12 year olds.
> In secondary school they tend to want children to repeat at the end of a cycle and each cycle is 2 years.
> 
> Repeating a year, although very common and pretty much accepted, is not always a great idea. The child can lose friendships. For some children going over the same material with the same books and the same teachers is the best thing that can happen. For others it's deathly boring and school no longer holds any appeal.
> ...


And the amount of homework these kids get is phenomenal.


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## Bob S (Nov 19, 2017)

Many thanks for the info. Getting a much better picture now.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> And the amount of homework these kids get is phenomenal.


Indeed it is.


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## wesdunn1977 (Nov 29, 2017)

They are building many state schools where I am just south of Alicante. All my friends children seem to pick the language up in months as opposed to years. best of luck to you..


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## daveunt (Sep 7, 2017)

Intrigued about the repeating a year situation. In your experience, what sort of percentage mark would a child have to achieve (presumably over a variety of subjects) to avoid repeating? Can a parent contest the decision or is it solely based on exam performance?


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## Bob S (Nov 19, 2017)

Wow. Thanks for that. It's really encouraging. I was getting to wrist slashing time  with the information so far. I was hoping to leave my work problems behind me when I retired but up till your post I thought I would be exchanging one set of problems for another. Probably still the case but at least there seems to be light at the end of the tunnel - and it's not a train coming the other way.


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## Bob S (Nov 19, 2017)

I'll be interested in the responses to that query as well.


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## Bob S (Nov 19, 2017)

*Education In Ontinyent, Alcoi*

Further to my previous posts on the subject of education, my family and I are now coming to stay for the first week of January in Ontinyent and would like to gather as much info as possible on schools and the like in Ontinyent and Alcoi during that time. Can anybody advise contacts please? Especially for Alcoi as we have no contacts at all for there.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

daveunt said:


> Intrigued about the repeating a year situation. In your experience, what sort of percentage mark would a child have to achieve (presumably over a variety of subjects) to avoid repeating? Can a parent contest the decision or is it solely based on exam performance?


In this area, children take as many as 13 subjects (ESO) and 11 in Bachi. If they fail 3 or more or if they fail key subjects, then they must repeat.

The overall annual 'mark' comprises a number of factors - exam results in the 3 exam periods, course work, attitude, etc. etc.

To my knowledge, one can not contest the fact. However, I believe it is best for the child to repeat rather than be struggling in the next year - each year is based on the previous so if they fail, they will really struggle to build on that 'bad foundation'.

An example, my daughter is dyslexic (numbers and letters) so, even though she grasped the language extremely well, had to repeat year 6 (primary) and then year 3 (ESO). In my opinion, this was the best thing that happened to her (other than passing everything of course).


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

I believe in most places there is the opportunity to retake the year-end exams before the start of the new school year. Many children spend the summer revising and visiting tutors to avoid having to repeat. It is a good deterrrent!


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Bob S said:


> Further to my previous posts on the subject of education, my family and I are now coming to stay for the first week of January in Ontinyent and would like to gather as much info as possible on schools and the like in Ontinyent and Alcoi during that time. Can anybody advise contacts please? Especially for Alcoi as we have no contacts at all for there.


You should be aware that during the first week of January all the schools will still be closed up for Christmas holidays, as classes don't resume until 8 January. So you won't be able to do any fact finding at the schools themselves. 

Sorry I can't help you with finding contacts because I live in another part of Spain.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Madliz said:


> I believe in most places there is the opportunity to retake the year-end exams before the start of the new school year. Many children spend the summer revising and visiting tutors to avoid having to repeat. It is a good deterrrent!


I think it's a horrible system, because kids who struggle in school never get a break from the grind. They have exams hanging over them year in and year out. Talk about a great way to demoralize a child. 

Not all children who fail in school are lazy and benefit from "deterrents". There are plenty who have learning differences which make passing exams more difficult for them. They deserve to relax and have a summer holiday as much as any other child. 

Sorry to go off about this, but it's a sore point for me since I have a son who was totally crushed by this system.


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## Bob S (Nov 19, 2017)

kalohi said:


> You should be aware that during the first week of January all the schools will still be closed up for Christmas holidays, as classes don't resume until 8 January. So you won't be able to do any fact finding at the schools themselves.
> 
> Sorry I can't help you with finding contacts because I live in another part of Spain.


Thanks for that. I'm aware that the schools are closed, but I was hoping to meet people informally first to get an unbiased opinion and then to visit the schools themselves in the second half of the month. We're actually going to be in the general area till the end of the month.


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## Bob S (Nov 19, 2017)

kalohi said:


> I think it's a horrible system, because kids who struggle in school never get a break from the grind. They have exams hanging over them year in and year out. Talk about a great way to demoralize a child.
> 
> Not all children who fail in school are lazy and benefit from "deterrents". There are plenty who have learning differences which make passing exams more difficult for them. They deserve to relax and have a summer holiday as much as any other child.
> 
> Sorry to go off about this, but it's a sore point for me since I have a son who was totally crushed by this system.


Probably depends on the parents' approach. Because our son struggles because of the dyslexia, we are more prepared to accept that he may need more time. Yes, it's frustrating but my cousin has a son who's just finished university and he was encouraged to go at his own pace - and that varied with the seasons


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## Bob S (Nov 19, 2017)

snikpoh said:


> In this area, children take as many as 13 subjects (ESO) and 11 in Bachi. If they fail 3 or more or if they fail key subjects, then they must repeat.
> 
> The overall annual 'mark' comprises a number of factors - exam results in the 3 exam periods, course work, attitude, etc. etc.
> 
> ...


I can see that we will have a fair bit to talk about during our visit.....  Looking forward to it.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Madliz said:


> I believe in most places there is the opportunity to retake the year-end exams before the start of the new school year. Many children spend the summer revising and visiting tutors to avoid having to repeat. It is a good deterrrent!


Absolutely, I forgot to mention this.

It used to be that retakes were in September - which was horrendous for a number of reasons;


Children had to work all summer on revising
parents, and children, couldn't plan for the next year not knowing if their child was 'going up'

Now, in this area at least, retakes are in late June.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

kalohi said:


> I think it's a horrible system, because kids who struggle in school never get a break from the grind. They have exams hanging over them year in and year out. Talk about a great way to demoralize a child.
> 
> Not all children who fail in school are lazy and benefit from "deterrents". There are plenty who have learning differences which make passing exams more difficult for them. They deserve to relax and have a summer holiday as much as any other child.
> 
> Sorry to go off about this, but it's a sore point for me since I have a son who was totally crushed by this system.


I too agree with you. Not all children can reach a certain level, some of my students spend five evening a week taking extra curricular classes in English, maths and sciences. When we go through the usual question of “ what did you do at the weekend” the response is 9/10. I Studied, did homework, prepared for exams etc. 

Passing an exam, reaching a reasonable levels in education is important but so is play, enjoyment and actually being a child. Which is why I favour the Montessori method of learning through play


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> Absolutely, I forgot to mention this.
> 
> It used to be that retakes were in September - which was horrendous for a number of reasons;
> 
> ...


I belief it's up to each school to decide when they will offer retakes. In my area they are all given in September.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

kalohi said:


> I belief it's up to each school to decide when they will offer retakes. In my area they are all given in September.


... maybe. I was told it was regional.


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