# Problem with debt in Dubai



## Curly99 (Dec 28, 2011)

Hi I am new to this forum and looking for advice for a friend in Dubai
They have been working in a job almost 8 months and it has not worked out as they thought the job and hours and pay were not as they thought they would be.
Due to the pay being very low and living costs they took a credit card with the bank that their salary was paid into not a huge amount approx £2000 however now that they have stated to their employer they want to leave they have said they cannot return their passport until all bills have been paid at the bank. They have stated when there work visa is finished the ministry of labour will inform their bank who will impose a travel ban.
Can this be correct, they are currently managing to pay their credit card each month the minimum payment but want to return home to the uk to attend to family matters and find better employment and fully intend to clear what is outstanding but can they really be held in the country by their employer who i might add is a well known company with their head office in the UK, any advice welcome, thank you


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## Curly99 (Dec 28, 2011)

Curly99 said:


> Hi I am new to this forum and looking for advice for a friend in Dubai
> They have been working in a job almost 8 months and it has not worked out as they thought the job and hours and pay were not as they thought they would be.
> Due to the pay being very low and living costs they took a credit card with the bank that their salary was paid into not a huge amount approx £2000 however now that they have stated to their employer they want to leave they have said they cannot return their passport until all bills have been paid at the bank. They have stated when there work visa is finished the ministry of labour will inform their bank who will impose a travel ban.
> Can this be correct, they are currently managing to pay their credit card each month the minimum payment but want to return home to the uk to attend to family matters and find better employment and fully intend to clear what is outstanding but can they really be held in the country by their employer who i might add is a well known company with their head office in the UK, any advice welcome, thank you


sorry i should add they their employers have their passport as they handle cash in their duties but their employer will not return it, does anyone think it would be worthwhile speaking to the head office in the uk as this practice is illegal. I dont want to make matters worse for them


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## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

Yes, it is illegal for the employer to hold the passport but many companies still do it, particularly when the staff member is handling cash. Basically, your friend's end of service benefits will go straight to the bank. When your friend resigns, the employer will notify the bank and the bank will freeze the account so your friend cannot get any cash out. When your friend took the credit card, they will have handed over a blank cheque, which the credit card issuer holds for precisely such occasions as this. They will write the amount outstanding on the blank cheque and, of course, the cheque will bounce. I am sure you know what the situation here regarding bounced cheques. All of this is to prevent people leaving without clearing their debts. While I am sure your friend has every intention of repaying everything when they return home (as do many others who want to leave), many get home and don't. Equally, there are many more who have no intention or way of paying anything back and just walk out and leave. Your friend's problem is that their company has their passport and now know your friend wants to leave. Unless they can find a way to clear the debt and get a clearance letter from the bank to hand to the company, they are pretty much stuck. Reporting the company for holding the passport could result in getting the passport back but it won't change the above and then your friend may not be able to get out anyway as I suspect the company would make sure all the necessary organizations were informed, which can mean the name goes through to be flagged at immigration. Sorry to have been so long winded with no suggestion but you may now be able to better understand the situation.


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## vona62 (Oct 4, 2009)

Not correct unfortunately - with holding passports in some countries by employers or anyone else is illegal but not so in UAE or several other GCC, but nor is it legal. This is a grey area that the Arab law makers seem to prefer not to deal with.

Best and only option is ask the Embassy or Consulate of issuing country to request return of passports, they after all are the true legal owners of passport documents only issued to the bearer as ID papers.


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## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

That's interesting Vona. I understood it was not legal. To the OP, just to clarify, it's not the MoL that informs the bank, it's the sponsor - the employer. Your friend would probably receive a work ban too as they have not worked for two years.


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## fcjb1970 (Apr 30, 2010)

vona62 said:


> Not correct unfortunately - with holding passports in some countries by employers or anyone else is illegal but not so in UAE or several other GCC, but nor is it legal. This is a grey area that the Arab law makers seem to prefer not to deal with.


This is an interesting piece about passport retention in the UAE. Which basically says it not really allowed, but no one does anything about it. 

Employers holding passports is legal grey area - The National

I never saw anything about the results of the hearing that was supposed to take place in November

:focus:


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## vona62 (Oct 4, 2009)

This is the reason why the only way to act is by requesting your Consulate to act for you, the employers or any other legal entity holding your identification documents cannot refuse. 

But then as Bedougirl correctly states the expat has still to deal with the debt, not a comfortable situation. 

My advice to new expats given as one who has spent nearly entire adult life in foreign countries is DO NOT incur any form of debt overseas. If you cannot afford to work/live on salary provided in foreign country get out, don't get involved with local banks or CC.

The financial world is very small and debt will follow you and catch up. Several guys I know chose to skip in simular circumstances then 1-2years later flying home on vacation or transfers got caught in a simple transit stopover and jailed till the debt cleared.


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## LONGGOOD BYE (Dec 26, 2011)

If you do get in Debt in the UAE get the heck out ASAP and do not tell anybody you are leaving,they do have debters prions here.In the past years they have found thousands of abandon cars at the airport from people who got out.

The other side of that is they can contact a collection agency in your home country that will use the laws of that country once they find you,but at least you will not go to prison.


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## Curly99 (Dec 28, 2011)

thank you for the reply gosh it was hard to understand how one thing leads to another and you get stuck now I guess they will not even return the passport which is a British one if they want to take a holiday. This is very difficult as they have children in england which they have not been able to get back to see unless the debt is paid first.

I did look on the British Consulate website for advice and it pretty much says theyknow its illegal but dont seem to offer any real advice


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

If they hadnt said they wanted to leave, they could have went to their employer and said they wanted their passport back for a weekend to oman. Now, that probly isnt going to work. 

Can they not take out a loan at their bank back home to get it paid off? The last check wont pay for it? Family members can not assist? 

No one should leave their passport with their employer. Just this sort of thing. You dont think it will happen to you, but you just never know. Having your exit plans in place and ready to go at a moments notice, is important. 

I wish your friends luck in getting out of this situation.


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## Curly99 (Dec 28, 2011)

Jynxgirl said:


> If they hadnt said they wanted to leave, they could have went to their employer and said they wanted their passport back for a weekend to oman. Now, that probly isnt going to work.
> 
> Can they not take out a loan at their bank back home to get it paid off? The last check wont pay for it? Family members can not assist?
> 
> ...


thanks i guess his family members were not happy he was going and couldnt understand if this situation was true from england it does all sound a bit unbelievable, as the hours and pay were not as they expected and work was hard to find in the uk they thought it would be a way to experience a new country and keep things paid for at home, but by then it was too late and they had the passport and they were stuck, just a dreadful situation will have to see if family can help as they are very down and depressed and can see no way out thanks


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

Strongly suggest they buckle down, spend as little as possible, and pay it asap, and get out from the situation. If they are able to unload anything, then I would suggest. If they have a vehicle, might look at getting rid of it if at all feesible to use a taxi to get to the metro (or if close enough, just use the metro). Look at ways to reduce what they spend. 
They might just have to suck it up.  Assume they have already sat down with the employer (do they both work the same place?) and discussed issues and tried to come to a resolution. Have either tried finding other employment? 

They are nearly at a year. Have they not taken a vacation? I have been under the impression that companies give you 30 days vacation a year are pretty much standard for western expats. If they are coming up on that, then the company would have to give the passports back ???

If the pay is different then the contract, then this is something he should be able to go to the ministry about.


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## Curly99 (Dec 28, 2011)

thanks again they have found very cheap accomodation and as you say have no car take the metro, yes your right about the holiday i dont think they have taken the 30 days so i feel they must be able to request holiday and request their passport, from what i understand its a small branch and the manager who overseas UAE is not present from week to week in each location to discuss this with properly.


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## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

If they get a ticket, they could encash it to pay a lump sum off the loan. The British Embassy/Consulate doesn't really get involved in this kind of matter and, as we all know from reading the newspapers, nor do most foreign government representatives here. By the way, if you think about reporting the passport as missing to get a duplicate, don't bother. It's a whole big rigmarole that would involve the police and the sponsor company. I really think they need to get help from home. Perhaps they could find another job here and persuade the company to give them an NOC?


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

Two thousand quid isn't a lot of money, broadly speaking. Can't your friends just stay in the job until they've raised the money to pay it off? It should only translate into being tightwads for a few months, no?


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## Curly99 (Dec 28, 2011)

TallyHo said:


> Two thousand quid isn't a lot of money, broadly speaking. Can't your friends just stay in the job until they've raised the money to pay it off? It should only translate into being tightwads for a few months, no?


I know i guess not just alot if you have 'nt got it and they seem to have no money left after paying rent and food so catch 22


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## TallyHo (Aug 21, 2011)

My instinct is that the sum of money owed on the credit card and possibly to other debtors is much larger than 2K quid. Otherwise I can't imagine western expats being willing to come out to Dubai where even if their income was halved, they wouldn't be able to save up 2K quid in a few months. 

Do they not have resources and bank accounts in the UK? The story you're telling us is this: debt is 2K, but they have no resources to pay it off. Nothing in the UK or the UAE. No house, no cars, nothing, nada zip. No family or friends to help either. That's a very unusual situation to be in. That's why I think whatever the friend is telling you, he's hiding the real sum of money he's in hocks for.


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## Curly99 (Dec 28, 2011)

as i said i have no reason to doubt the amount not much but quite alot to a person if you have'nt got it, no there is no money in the uk no car or house owned as i said they were unemployed for quite a while in the uk so their credit rating is not great there , it was not a great job they went to but felt it was better than nothing and maybe a new start leading to other things but it has not been the case, very naive to not look into things properly but im grateful to you all for explaining how it all works out there , sorry just to clarify im in the uk and was trying to get an understanding as it all seemed very confusing from here so thanks


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## pdq (Dec 28, 2011)

Have they considered advising the embassy that the passports are lost or stolen and getting new ones issued, then they could travel on these.


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## vona62 (Oct 4, 2009)

Several years ago I accepted a short contract with a large Dubai company to restructure a division of the company in preparation for a new major project.

The HR department requested my passport for usual formalities, I am dual nationality/dual pp so I'm no bothered by this procedure but I told the gent I want it back, he agreed. 

I checked 10days later, they confirmed my work visa was complete but then wouldn't hand over my pp. 

I told the central asian gent 'first I have my dual pp so you hold nothing and second I'm probably going to hurt you if you don't give it back now.

I'm not a violent person by nature but he gave it back. My point is why do overseas what you wouldn't do at home unless you have either full control or willing to take a risk.


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## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

BedouGirl said:


> If they get a ticket, they could encash it to pay a lump sum off the loan. The British Embassy/Consulate doesn't really get involved in this kind of matter and, as we all know from reading the newspapers, nor do most foreign government representatives here. By the way, if you think about reporting the passport as missing to get a duplicate, don't bother. It's a whole big rigmarole that would involve the police and the sponsor company. I really think they need to get help from home. Perhaps they could find another job here and persuade the company to give them an NOC?


@PDQ, please read my post above.


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## PaulAshton (Nov 18, 2011)

Would it not be easier to tell your embassy you lost your passport and have another one issued?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

PaulAshton said:


> Would it not be easier to tell your embassy you lost your passport and have another one issued?


which would be neither true nor legal


yes, I've read that it's not legal for the employer to hold onto the passport

but surely doing that could only compound the problem


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## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

And, repeating myself for the third time, you cannot just go to your embassy and tell them you have lost your passport. Losing your passport involves police reports and your sponsor, if you are here on a resident's permit. Wish I could do that smiley bashing its head into the brick wall....


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## dizzyizzy (Mar 30, 2008)

BedouGirl said:


> And, repeating myself for the third time, you cannot just go to your embassy and tell them you have lost your passport. Losing your passport involves police reports and your sponsor, if you are here on a resident's permit. Wish I could do that smiley bashing its head into the brick wall....


HERE YOU GO! :frusty:


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## pdq (Dec 28, 2011)

Thanks BedouGirl for referring me / us to your previous posts on this topic. 

I do however find this whole practice of confiscation of passports by employers very much like forcible detention in country, on a recognised grey/ illegal basis. This also brings into play the much wider subjects of basic human rights, forced labour and human trafficking. There should therefore be legitimate remedies available for expats in this situation, either legally or through diplomatic channels in any country where there is a basic rule of law, and/or there is a relevant embassy. 

Whilst recognising that lenders do run the risk of debtors fleeing the country, they are in the ‘risk / return’ business and their rights should be enforceable through the usual means. Holding passports should not be an acceptable solution. It has been reported in Dubai that many employers hold passports for a range of reasons, recognise that it is illegal however suggest that it is on the request of their employees, which is refuted. Clearly a grey area!!

In this situation, it could be argued that the passports are not actually lost as their rough location is actually known. Subject to the outcome of the Ministry of Labour hearing referred to on November 2011 (which I have not seen), the holding of passports by employers is not a ‘legal’ practice, there appears to be no law preventing the employer from doing it, however the local authorities appear not to want to get involved. 

I would suggest however that the passport in question has been taken without its owner’s permission or consent, and that’s theft, plain and simple in anyone’s language. Evidence might be required by the British embassy that the employer will not return the passport, then in my view, the embassy has a responsibility to take steps to support its return via diplomatic means, or recognise the passport as stolen and simply issue another one. At least that’s what I would be pushing for. It could be argued that if the embassy will not assist, then it is assisting the illegal detention of a UK citizen against their will, knowingly or otherwise, quite a serious issue. 

Now whether or not the ‘friend’ of Curly99 is sufficiently motivated to jump through all the hoops, as BedouGirl has pointed out there are a few, then that is over to them. Obviously the best policy is don’t let them have your passport, but once they have it, expats should have a legitimate means of getting them back and unless a Dubai government authority gets involved, then I believe its fair to expect our embassies to support its nationals. 

Good luck.


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## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

You make some very interesting points PDQ. I also wonder if the embassy would consider that as a justification to issue a passport? I doubt it, but who knows? Just to play the other side of the coin here though when looking at the potential outcome. If the individual were successful and managed to leave on that basis, then they would obviously not be paying their loan off, as is legally required. 

I am not saying that any of this is right but there are two sides to every story. This individual is unlucky because they work somewhere that holds their passport and they are trapped. If they weren't, they would have long gone and left the debt behind them. Most times when people leave like this, they say they will pay the debt off when they get back, etc., but do you think they do?

Let's not get onto the subject of how easy it is to get a loan and credit cards here. The banks practically beg you to take them. I have lost count of the calls I receive from banks saying I can have this, that or the other. It's a sad reflection on society here that many people cannot exist without loans and credit cards.


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