# The residency minefield



## Mrhappy5 (Sep 9, 2013)

Hi all,

Well I will be moving out to Madrid early January and although I'm looking forward to it, I am still not sure on the legalities and I need to get things sorted.

I have looked on the internet and the forum for advice but it seems with the change in law (2012) regarding residency that much of the advice and sites are out of date.

What I need is a step by step guide in how to register and what to register for. If at all possible I would like to register whilst I am still in The UK.

I am looking to reside for less than 5 years.
Your help would be invaluable folks.


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## Mrhappy5 (Sep 9, 2013)

Sorry, I forgot to add the rather important issue of school application.

My son is moving with me and he is in the first year of high school in The UK. By choice i would have him in a bilingual state school in spain but i am not sure where to begin. 

Again, any help would be so so helpful.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

You son, I assume is going to be about 11/12?? and if you're only staying for 5 years, he needs an international school - they teach in English and follow the British curriculum, so he should get some GCSEs for his return to the UK. Sadly, they are fee paying. Heres the overbodies website Schools in Spain | Nabss

As for becoming a resident. The rules are that you need to prove you have an income that will support you and healthcare provision. But you have to do it from Spain, you'll need a permanent address and to make an appointment at the appropriate place - usually its the national police station or foreigners office

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Mrhappy5 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Well I will be moving out to Madrid early January and although I'm looking forward to it, I am still not sure on the legalities and I need to get things sorted.
> 
> ...



:welcome:

it's actually very straightforward & not a minefield at all!

as an EU citizen, when you move here you are considered to be resident after 3 months/90 days - whether you register or not

there are fines for not doing so, & you'll need the residency cert for various things 

in order to register you need to prove that you have sufficient income (generally 6000€ per person in a Spanish bank, or income of 625€ + a month pp) & also that you have healthcare provision

if you are working here on a contract, or as self-employed & paying 'autónomo' then that covers both aspects - income & healthcare

if you're currently working in the UK then you should contact the DWP in Newcastle & ask for S1 forms for you both - they will give you state healthcare cover here for a limited period

if none of those apply, you'll need private healthcare


more info here http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...-living-spain/2725-faqs-lots-useful-info.html


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## Mrhappy5 (Sep 9, 2013)

Thanks both of you, that's put me at ease a little.

No doubt I'll be back at some point with a fee more questions but in the mean time I'll have a look through the FAQ's again.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

Becoming a Spanish resident isn't really a minefield—it's pretty straight forward as long as you meet the residency criteria. Buying a property in Spain at the moment is a minefield, becoming a resident isn't.

As far as I'm aware It would be impossible to become a Spanish resident from the UK. You have to be in Spain. In any case, you have 3 months from arrival in Spain to sort out your residency, what's the hurry?

Becoming a resident (if you're there for more than 183 days in a year) will also mean becoming a Spanish fiscal resident. Have you looked into the tax situation?

That would be the first place I would start.


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## Mrhappy5 (Sep 9, 2013)

No, I haven't looked at the tax angle as yet. Initially I will be supported from the UK with regular deposits into my Spanish account(not sure where that leaves me tax wise).

There's no major rush, I just thought the more I can get done in The UK, the easier it would be that's all.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

zenkarma said:


> Becoming a Spanish resident isn't really a minefield—it's pretty straight forward as long as you meet the residency criteria. _Buying a property in Spain at the moment is a minefield, becoming a resident isn't._
> 
> As far as I'm aware It would be impossible to become a Spanish resident from the UK. You have to be in Spain. In any case, you have 3 months from arrival in Spain to sort out your residency, what's the hurry?
> 
> ...


Can you clarify what you mean by, buying a property is a minefield at the moment means.?

X


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

zenkarma said:


> Becoming a Spanish resident isn't really a minefield—it's pretty straight forward as long as you meet the residency criteria. Buying a property in Spain at the moment is a minefield, becoming a resident isn't.
> 
> As far as I'm aware It would be impossible to become a Spanish resident from the UK. You have to be in Spain. In any case, you have 3 months from arrival in Spain to sort out your residency, what's the hurry?
> 
> ...


I disagree. You find a house, you give the owner cash, you update the deeds, register them and that's it!

Yes you have to make various check on the property but then you have to do that wherever you buy.


Also, don't confuse residency and tax-residency (not that you would). You catually become resident after 90 days and not 180 as stated. Tax-residency is 180 days or less (depending upon circumstances).


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

cambio said:


> Can you clarify what you mean by, buying a property is a minefield at the moment means.?


I think there's a lot to consider when purchasing a property in Spain at the moment.

Price would be one issue—it's not easy to know what the right price is in this current market.

Legality would be another, potential purchasers need to quadruple check the legal aspects of any prospective property and not rely entirely on the advice given by supposed legal experts because once you've bought you have little to no comeback. 

The taxes you need to pay on purchase is also another area that needs careful looking into as the hacienda is frequently claiming that taxes paid at purchase are incorrect, particularly if the price you paid for the property doesn't match what they think the property value is.

It's not quite as straight forward as Snikpoh would have us believe in his rather simplistic scenario.

Caveat emptor rules supreme in Spanish property buying at the moment.


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> You catually become resident after 90 days and not 180 as stated. Tax-residency is 180 days or less (depending upon circumstances).


I never stated you would become resident after 180 days. I stated that you would become a fiscal tax resident after 183 days, although I accept it could have been clearer.

I'm not sure why you're quoting 180 days. Fiscal tax residency commences _after_ 183 days not _180 days or less_.

Just to clarify.


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## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

zenkarma said:


> I never stated you would become resident after 180 days. I stated that you would become a fiscal tax resident after 183 days, although I accept it could have been clearer. I'm not sure why you're quoting 180 days. Fiscal tax residency commences after 183 days not 180 days or less. Just to clarify.


He knows that. I think his kids must have swapped the keys on his PC. :rofl :rofl :rofl
:


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

zenkarma said:


> I never stated you would become resident after 180 days. I stated that you would become a fiscal tax resident after 183 days, although I accept it could have been clearer.
> 
> I'm not sure why you're quoting 180 days. Fiscal tax residency commences _after_ 183 days not _180 days or less_.
> 
> Just to clarify.


Well spotted - should have said 182 (or 3).

I said "or less" because if they deem your 'centre of interest' is here, then you can be deemed fiscally resident straight away!


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## Mrhappy5 (Sep 9, 2013)

Its been fun reading your posts 

Well I don't have long at all now before the move and if I am honest I don't feel that prepared. I guess the major worry is my sons schooling, after your advice and all things considered, we have decided to go bilingual state school.

What's bothering me is getting him into a school asap (we move out on the 8th Jan). He is a bright lad and wants to get in as soon as possible, do I have to be granted residency before he can have a school place? If so then I'm concerned as to how long that will take and that will be time missed from school.

If anyone out there understand this situation and how best to get him in to a school as soon as we get there please give me some direction.

Thanks again folks


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Mrhappy5 said:


> Its been fun reading your posts
> 
> Well I don't have long at all now before the move and if I am honest I don't feel that prepared. I guess the major worry is my sons schooling, after your advice and all things considered, we have decided to go bilingual state school.
> 
> ...


AFAIK you need to go to your local ayuntamiento/town hall with your necessary paperwork, passports, *NIE/residencia* (photocopied) and they will tell you which schools are taking students. From there you go to the school, again with the paperwork, fill in forms and he's in - then you get the book list and where to get them and thats when it starts to get expensive lol!!!!

I found that with our local state school, altho they claimed to be bilingual, they didnt allow English speaking kids to attend the bilingual classes  - apparently, it would slow their Spanish learning and prevent integration!!!! But maybe that was just one particular schools opinion?! I did have a few "squabbles" with them over it tho - resulting in me moving my daughter to an international school in the end

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> AFAIK you need to go to your local ayuntamiento/town hall with your necessary paperwork, passports, *NIE/residencia* (photocopied) and they will tell you which schools are taking students. From there you go to the school, again with the paperwork, fill in forms and he's in - then you get the book list and where to get them and thats when it starts to get expensive lol!!!!
> 
> I found that with our local state school, altho they claimed to be bilingual, they didnt allow English speaking kids to attend the bilingual classes  - apparently, it would slow their Spanish learning and prevent integration!!!! But maybe that was just one particular schools opinion?! I did have a few "squabbles" with them over it tho - resulting in me moving my daughter to an international school in the end
> 
> Jo xxx


in theory (because even illegal immigrants are legally entitled to go to school here :shocked: ) - you shouldn't need a resident cert for school - but you do need padrón

same here for 'bilingual' schools

the secondary school my daughters attend does some lessons/subjects in English - but native English speakers aren't allowed to attend them........... they have to do them in Castellano or Valenciano


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> in theory (because even illegal immigrants are legally entitled to go to school here :shocked: ) - you shouldn't need a resident cert for school - but you do need padrón
> 
> same here for 'bilingual' schools
> 
> the secondary school my daughters attend does some lessons/subjects in English - but native English speakers aren't allowed to attend them........... they have to do them in Castellano or Valenciano


They insisted on the NIE/residencia certificate when we got Ruby into both the state schools, in fact they wouldnt proceed without it. I had to go home and get it - and photocopies . But, that was then...............

The bilingualness (is that a word??) is something that I question. The teachers who teach "in English", didnt seem that fluent (according to Ruby, who did sneak in a class once) and there was a lot of time wasting with translation so that the kids understood apparently. But, I'm sure it all varies across the schools that offer bilingual education

Jo xxx


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## Mrhappy5 (Sep 9, 2013)

To be completely honest I do favour an International or British school but it's the expense that put pay to that (pardon the pun).

I'm not in a position to be able to do that for him, which is disappointing but that's just the way it is for now.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Mrhappy5 said:


> To be completely honest I do favour an International or British school but it's the expense that put pay to that (pardon the pun).
> 
> I'm not in a position to be able to do that for him, which is disappointing but that's just the way it is for now.


Its a tough one isnt it. Under 10 and he should be fine picking up the language etc. so maybe not worry too much about the binlingual side of things. Its when they're older (my daughter was 12 - but difficult lol!!) that it becomes a bit harder - what I found really hard was the homework AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!! 

Jo xxx


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## Mrhappy5 (Sep 9, 2013)

He's just turned 12 too! Oh no, I hadn't thought of the homework lol


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Mrhappy5 said:


> He's just turned 12 too! Oh no, I hadn't thought of the homework lol


They get tons of it. I nearly cried when I saw French homework - for a minute I thought "Oh good I can do French". Then I realised that I/we had to translate it to/from Spanish. Then maths - now I thought that would be easy, numbers are numbers afterall.................... but nooooo, the symbols and working outs are very different!!!!!

Sorry, I'm not trying to put you off with my reminiscing. Seriously it is something to be wary of and a reason for you to learn the language - together maybe???!

Jo xxx


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## Mrhappy5 (Sep 9, 2013)

Maybe I should turn to plan B, just not sure what plan B is yet lol


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Mrhappy5 said:


> Maybe I should turn to plan B, just not sure what plan B is yet lol


I think you'll need a plan B ....

what year was he born? 2001??

that would right now make him age-appropriate for 1st year of secondary school - his age group should be leaving obligatory education in summer 2017

he'll be studying everything in Spanish - even if the school is 'bilingual' that will perhaps mean that a few subjects are taught in English - & from my & others' experience in other parts of Spain, native English speakers aren't usually included in these classes - it _might _be different in Madrid - I don't know

so chances are he'll be studying 11 subjects in a language he doesn't understand 

I don't know how well he does at school atm - if he's *very *bright & hard-working he *might *manage - he'll almost certainly have to repeat at least a year though, in order to get his Spanish up to the level of being able to study in it

he'll have to pass *all subjects *in order to graduate at age 16 in 2017 (GCSE equivalent), or maybe at 18 (2019 but still with only GCSE equivalent) if he repeats twice....... if he doesn't pass them all he leaves with no qualifications at all - nothing, nada - you can't leave with a couple of GCSEs - it's all or nothing

2019 takes you beyond the 'less than 5 years' you plan to be here - & even if he only repeats once (I doubt he'd avoid at least one repeat) - that's 2018 - so still just about there.....


I'm talking from experience - I do homework support & private tutoring for English kids in the Spanish system

I've known one or two over the years who have gone into the state system at that age & eventually graduated & then returned to the UK to further their studies, albeit a couple of years behind their compatriots

sadly though, the majority leave at 16 because they can - with no qualifications whatsoever - & no chance of a decent future here - 50% unemployment in that age group 

if you are returning to the UK at about that time, your son could very well be returning with no qualifications

sorry if that all sounds a bit OTT, but it isn't - it's reality


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## Mrhappy5 (Sep 9, 2013)

Sometimes the truth is difficult to hear but I believe we have to hear it nonetheless. I'm off out right now but will PM you later. Thanks for sharing your experience and concerns, I really am grateful.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Lynn,

I guess we've been lucky - our children have been allowed to study whatever they want with no restrictions. The only thing they can't do is to take the Trinity exams (English).

Ours in ESO take 13 subjects and in Bachi, he does 11!!

All subjects are taught in either Spanish or Valenciano with the exception of EF where the tutor (with my children's help) do some things in English.

The issue of having to pass all subjects to get the certificate is a real bummer - my daughter (bless her) is not the sharpest knife in the drawer and also her dyslexia doesn't help. She's going to really struggle to pass them all!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Lynn,
> 
> I guess we've been lucky - our children have been allowed to study whatever they want with no restrictions. The only thing they can't do is to take the Trinity exams (English).
> 
> ...


my younger one is dyslexic too - it doesn't help 

my two have had no real restrictions apart from that issue, either - I just thought it would have been easier for the younger one to get the chance to study in English where it's available - but no - that wasn't happening


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## Mrhappy5 (Sep 9, 2013)

Well, we are here in Spain, my son is in an International school which he loves, I've registered at the town hall on the padron, I have been granted healthcare cover from the DWP (just waiting for certificate).

That leaves the residencia and NIE which I need to get ASAP, as my son cannot sign for his football team until we have one.

The plan is to try and sort it on Monday, the problem is I don't know how to find out where to go. I live in the town of Majadahonda which sits approx 15KM from Madrid.

Do any of you guys know where I should go or how I can find out?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Mrhappy5 said:


> Well, we are here in Spain, my son is in an International school which he loves, I've registered at the town hall on the padron, I have been granted healthcare cover from the DWP (just waiting for certificate).
> 
> That leaves the residencia and NIE which I need to get ASAP, as my son cannot sign for his football team until we have one.
> 
> ...



In your best possible Spanish - go to your *National *Police station and ask where to find the "oficina de Extranjeros". Alternatively, your town hall will know.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Mrhappy5 said:


> Well, we are here in Spain, my son is in an International school which he loves, I've registered at the town hall on the padron, I have been granted healthcare cover from the DWP (just waiting for certificate).
> 
> That leaves the residencia and NIE which I need to get ASAP, as my son cannot sign for his football team until we have one.
> 
> ...


Maybe Pozuelo. I go there and live nearish to Majadahonda.
Page 2 here
http://www.icam.es/docs/ficheros/200505250002_6_17.pdf


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## Mrhappy5 (Sep 9, 2013)

Thanks very very much, Pozuelo is not too far, I'll go there on Monday. 

I'm sorry to drag it on but what exactly will they want me to take with me?


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Mrhappy5 said:


> Thanks very very much, Pozuelo is not too far, I'll go there on Monday.
> 
> I'm sorry to drag it on but what exactly will they want me to take with me?


You will need;

proof of regular income (more than 650 euros/person per month) into Spanish bank
if employed - employment contract
if self-employed - proof of SS payments etc.
you may also need proof of savings (in excess of 6000 euros)
Passport
rental contract or escritura
marriage certificate
proof of health cover

CAVEAT;
Unfortunately, this being Spain, the above list may not be correct nor the amounts mentioned. Each area seems to have their own rules!


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## ANNIE100 (Oct 3, 2013)

Info please - Ill be coming over in the Spring to live permanently with my partner (who is Canarian). Is there any advantages/rules to say that I have to take up residency and would all the above criteria apply to me if I am married to a Canarian. Dont want to sound stupid but I dont want to take up residency and then find I have problems if I want to return to the Uk. Im not intending but just trying to cover all eventunalities.xx


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

ANNIE100 said:


> Info please - Ill be coming over in the Spring to live permanently with my partner (who is Canarian). Is there any advantages/rules to say that I have to take up residency and would all the above criteria apply to me if I am married to a Canarian. Dont want to sound stupid but I dont want to take up residency and then find I have problems if I want to return to the Uk. Im not intending but just trying to cover all eventunalities.xx


You don't have a choice-you must sign on the foreigners register if you want to live here permanently and enjoy all the rules, regs and taxes!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

ANNIE100 said:


> Info please - Ill be coming over in the Spring to live permanently with my partner (who is Canarian). Is there any advantages/rules to say that I have to take up residency and would all the above criteria apply to me if I am married to a Canarian. Dont want to sound stupid but I dont want to take up residency and then find I have problems if I want to return to the Uk. Im not intending but just trying to cover all eventunalities.xx


Annie,
you don't take up residency as such, you sign on the foreigners' register, and for that you are awarded a certificate which says you are registered. Whether you register or not, you are considered a resident by the authorities after living in Spain for more than 90 days. Extranjero is right when s/he says that you don't have a choice if you want to live here legally


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## Mrhappy5 (Sep 9, 2013)

Thank you Snikpoh, things are getting clearer now. I am doing a degree with The Open Uni so classed as a mature student. I won't be working, my family in The UK are depositing €1100 per month into my account. 

I must add that I won't be looking to claim from the Spanish state either. How do you think my chances fair? It's just me and my 12 yr old Son.

The last concern is tax, any info?


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## Aron (Apr 30, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Annie,
> you don't take up residency as such, you sign on the foreigners' register, and for that you are awarded a certificate which says you are registered. Whether you register or not, you are considered a resident by the authorities after living in Spain for more than 90 days. Extranjero is right when s/he says that you don't have a choice if you want to live here legally


That is absolutely correct, but there expats in Spain who do not comply. I know a couple who come to Spain for 6 months a year and have done for over 20 years. They never wanted residencia as it was years ago. I think they have no idea that residencia as it was ended in 2007. It is only since being on this forum that I got to understand the rules as they are now. There must be many others who do not comply either deliberately or out of ignorance. I try to do everything to integrate into Spanish society as best I can. It annoys me when I see others who do not!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Aron said:


> That is absolutely correct, but there expats in Spain who do not comply. I know a couple who come to Spain for 6 months a year and have done for over 20 years. They never wanted residencia as it was years ago. I think they have no idea that residencia as it was ended in 2007. It is only since being on this forum that I got to understand the rules as they are now. There must be many others who do not comply either deliberately or out of ignorance. I try to do everything to integrate into Spanish society as best I can. It annoys me when I see others who do not!


Yes, of course there are people who don't comply, as there are in all countries. To be honest, I might not if my circumstances were different, if I was going to be here longer than three months, but less than a year for example. However, I'm here for good and if you're here for good this is what you've got to do. Seems reasonable to me.
It's true that some people don't comply out of ignorance, but then you have to question just how much they do know about living in a different country, and how much interest have they shown in their adopted country.


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## Mrhappy5 (Sep 9, 2013)

Mrhappy5 said:


> Thank you Snikpoh, things are getting clearer now. I am doing a degree with The Open Uni so classed as a mature student. I won't be working, my family in The UK are depositing €1100 per month into my account. I must add that I won't be looking to claim from the Spanish state either. How do you think my chances fair? It's just me and my 12 yr old Son. The last concern is tax, any info?


Sorry to repost but I was thinking I may not get an answer since my post has become part of the thread, if that makes sense.

Any thoughts would be helpful, thanks


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Mrhappy5 said:


> Sorry to repost but I was thinking I may not get an answer since my post has become part of the thread, if that makes sense.
> 
> Any thoughts would be helpful, thanks


it will more than likely be enough - though they might also want to see a healthy bank balance as well as the regular payments int the Spanish account


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## ANNIE100 (Oct 3, 2013)

Sorry thats my fault should have posted a new thread xx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

ANNIE100 said:


> Sorry thats my fault should have posted a new thread xx



no - it was the same topic - chances are we'd have merged the two threads together anyway!


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