# Canadian moving to Mexico



## no more snow (Feb 5, 2012)

Hi everyone. Looking for some suggestions on the following:
1) Accountant who would specialize in matters relating to Non-Residency status for Cdn living in Mexico
2) Lawyer familiar with this situation to best advise in issues of purchasing property in Mexico

My question in regard to the above is: am I better to find these professionals in Mexico or in Canada? I realize that later on down the road it is mandatory for some transactions that I deal with a Notary from Mexico but for the best advice and the 'real' picture of what I'm hoping to accomplish (moving to Mexico) I'm not certain who would be the most informed of all the rules and regulations. Or do I actually see the professionals on both sides? I realize I could ask my existing Accountants and Lawyers but they haven't moved to Mexico. Some of you have so you've got the experience and the knowledge. Any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks in advance. Ooops, just realized this has probably been asked before and I'm having a bit of trouble 'searching' for it specifically, so I apologize for a double post, if that is the case and simply ask for a link to an existing thread if there is one. Thanks again.


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## Grizzy (Nov 8, 2010)

Re non residency I suspect an accountant in Canada would have info on that. You can look on Revenue Canada's website for the criteria and decide if it is beneficial for you come tax time. There are steps you can take to facilitate it or not depending on your situation and it is not difficult to figure out. 
What part of Mexico are you moving to? Here in the Lake Chapala area there are a few accountants familiar with Canadian residency issues.
Re buying property I doubt any Canadian lawyer would have much of clue on issues related to purchasing land in Mexico. Due diligence and triple checking and taking your time is what I would advise. Again depending on the area you are moving to, ask around and find out who is reliable.
And you will hear this over and over but I am going to say it anyway. RENT first. For a long time. Don't buy in haste and regret it.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Grizzy said:


> Re non residency I suspect an accountant in Canada would have info on that. You can look on Revenue Canada's website for the criteria and decide if it is beneficial for you come tax time. There are steps you can take to facilitate it or not depending on your situation and it is not difficult to figure out.
> What part of Mexico are you moving to? Here in the Lake Chapala area there are a few accountants familiar with Canadian residency issues.
> Re buying property I doubt any Canadian lawyer would have much of clue on issues related to purchasing land in Mexico. Due diligence and triple checking and taking your time is what I would advise. Again depending on the area you are moving to, ask around and find out who is reliable.
> And you will hear this over and over but I am going to say it anyway. RENT first. For a long time. Don't buy in haste and regret it.


I agree with Grizzy. For Canadian residency questions you need a Canadian adviser. For Mexico real estate it would be a waste of time to get advice in Canada. If Canada is anything like the US, I wouldn't even use an Ontario adviser in Quebec. Real estate issues are usually very local. You need a good Notario Publico in the area that interests you. But also as he said. Don't buy until you have lived here long enough to have a sense of how you like it. I have several friends that moved to Latin America thinking it was a permanent change, only to discover it wasn't for them.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

What they said !!!

Relax, come down and rent, find an area you like, check both winter and summer seasons, talk to people, find message boards for your area and take your time. It's not that complicated after you've studied it a bit


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## no more snow (Feb 5, 2012)

Thank you all for replying to my query. I too agree (now) that renting is more adviseable - I'm just not keen with having to spend the $$ when it's not something I own but it is the better idea. Perhaps there would be opportunities to 'rent to own'? Not sure how popular that option is in Mexico? Any comments on that? We will be visiting the San Antonio Tlayacapan area in March and that is the area we are currently interested in because our family friends have been there for quite some time and absolutely love it. There of course are many more beautiful sounding areas but we're thinking, if we do go ahead with this idea, that starting in the same area as people we know, the transition would be a little easier. As for my questions - yes, I am familiar with the non-residency program and how it works because of my Bookkeeping and my clients who are involved with the program but I am only familiar with it on THIS side. I wasn't certain if I should be speaking with someone from Mexico as well. Thank you for letting me know. As for the legal advice/consultations I will also seek someone out for real estate transactions (when the time comes) from Mexico then. Thank you all for your help.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

For real estate transactions in Mexico you will need a "notario", which is a kind of lawyer-plus. They are the only ones authorized to make real estate transactions and if you find a good one you will be in great shape.


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## deedle (Oct 5, 2010)

*rentals*

.I too rented when I first came down until I figured out what I was doing. I now have my own home and love being here. I am originally from Ontario.....living at Lake Chapala! if you want to send me a note I can send you a list places that do rentals in the Lake Chapala area. deanne47 at gmail dot com


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

>>>> I too agree (now) that renting is more adviseable - I'm just not keen with having to spend the $$ when it's not something I own but it is the better idea. 

I've rented two very nice houses for $4000 pesos each. Even at a little more it's worth your peace of mind and freedom. I did have yearly leases for that price ... but a year is a good amout of time to get to know the area. Traffic, noise and proximity to things are important


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## no more snow (Feb 5, 2012)

sparks said:


> >>>> I too agree (now) that renting is more adviseable - I'm just not keen with having to spend the $$ when it's not something I own but it is the better idea.
> 
> I've rented two very nice houses for $4000 pesos each. Even at a little more it's worth your peace of mind and freedom. I did have yearly leases for that price ... but a year is a good amout of time to get to know the area. Traffic, noise and proximity to things are important


Thank you for that. It's good to get an idea of what things can cost and I agree...peace of mind means more than anything with something like this. Thanks so much for the info.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

*Own vs. Rent*

We are on the fence on renting vs. owning when we first get there, leaning more towards renting, although the MLS listings right now show two nice places in our price range to buy. BUT, we are coming down the first week in April and look around.

I like the idea of renting, but we have cats and that is not something a lot of owners like we are told. I fear buying as what if the area that looks so nice now, turns out to not be?

So, we shall see.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

When it comes to renting vs. buying, I think it has a lot to do with your past experiences, especially in other countries, as well as how good your instincts and 'situational awareness' are tuned.
Some folks can walk into a new environment, take a look around and sniff out the situation in a heartbeat. They tend to follow their instincts and might buy immediately. Others are more timid and would be more likely to rent for a while. Then, there is a third category of folks who should never own a home & may even be bothersome tenants without the ability to change a faucet or paint a wall.
We all have to decide, honestly, where we fit.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2012)

RVGRINGO said:


> When it comes to renting vs. buying, I think it has a lot to do with your past experiences, especially in other countries, as well as how good your instincts and 'situational awareness' are tuned.
> Some folks can walk into a new environment, take a look around and sniff out the situation in a heartbeat. They tend to follow their instincts and might buy immediately. Others are more timid and would be more likely to rent for a while. Then, there is a third category of folks who should never own a home & may even be bothersome tenants without the ability to change a faucet or paint a wall.
> We all have to decide, honestly, where we fit.


There might be a fourth category. The rent I pay amounts to a annual 5% net return to the owner. I take good care of this house because it is my home, but I can get a much bigger bang than 5% on the money I would have tied up in this house by owning it. 

Renting also gives me a much easier way to hit the road for greener pastures if something changes drastically in my life here.


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## deedle (Oct 5, 2010)

sparks said:


> >>>> I too agree (now) that renting is more adviseable - I'm just not keen with having to spend the $$ when it's not something I own but it is the better idea.
> 
> I've rented two very nice houses for $4000 pesos each. Even at a little more it's worth your peace of mind and freedom. I did have yearly leases for that price ... but a year is a good amout of time to get to know the area. Traffic, noise and proximity to things are important


I live in the Lake Chapala area and I've never found a* very nice *house for 4000 peso. I guess it depends on what part of Mexico you are from and whether or not you want to rent furnished or unfurnished.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

In the past, I have moved from one state in the US to a new state and immediately picked a place to live and bought a house there. Moving to Mexico was a bigger change. I would not have been comfortable buying immediately. There are lots factors that I considered before deciding where to live: Rural vs small town vs small city vs big city; beach vs interior; desert, dry, humid; proximity to an airport; proximity to bus lines. For awhile, I considered living near the coast, because I thought it would be appealing to my kids and they might visit more often. But in the end, I decided they would never visit more than a week or so a year no matter where I lived and I am better off living where I want. It is easy to rent a place near the beach for visitors. Similarly with rural areas: I liked the idea of living out in the country, but in the end found that I wanted to be able to walk to markets/theaters/restaurants/bars, rather than having to own a car and get in it every time I needed or wanted to go anywhere.

In the US, I felt like I knew some of this about places with very little time spent there, just from experience. However, I knew much less about the options in Mexico before coming here. So, it was useful to spend some time learning before committing to a place.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

deedle said:


> I live in the Lake Chapala area and I've never found a* very nice *house for 4000 peso. I guess it depends on what part of Mexico you are from and whether or not you want to rent furnished or unfurnished.


Some friends of mine rent a very nice 3 bedroom/2 bath house within a few blocks of the center of Guadalajara for $4200 mxn/month. It was unfurnished and needed some cleaning when they moved in but it is a nice place. No A/C or heat or bathtubs, but very nice. There is a roof top patio that they have turned into a jungle with potted plants. They can walk to a couple of mercados for groceries and to the central plaza for free outdoor concerts most every weekend.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

One was in Jocotepec, 4 bed, 2 bath, solar water, jacuzi tub, huge yard and 4 car covered parking and party area. The other was one block from the beach in Melaque, 3 bed, two bath, yard and garage. First was unfurnished and second was. Both good neighborhoods

You'll probably never find deals like that when new to an area, without contacts and maybe little Spanish


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

sparks said:


> You'll probably never find deals like that when new to an area, without contacts and maybe little Spanish


I think those are the key factors.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

The various points are all educational and as RV points out, some people have an "instinctual" awareness of a "good"place for them. This is how we felt about Lakeside once we got there to visit last year.

This is much easier in the US as the whole country is so homogenized that, as we have found moving from city to city, it is basically the same for the necessities of life, the same chain stores, the same mall stores, the same car dealers. There is not that much heterogeneity left here in the US. It is the cultural offering of a different city that varies, New York is not Jacksonville, which is not Baltimore, which is not Philadelphia - but only in culture - you can find the same stores in all of them.

We found tha Pto. Vallarta was pretty much the same as moving to another city in the US, except Centro, Zona Romantica or the Malecon for example. [again culture] I suppose an ex-pat can live there basically untouched by Mexican living, and as a matter of fact we found such people where we stayed. That is not why we have chosen to become ex-pats.

But, as usual, I digress (sorry). 

We have been fortunate to find a place to live wherever we moved that turned out to be "right" from day one, the day the agent took us to the house, apartment. This feeling "right" has given us the confidence to do it again in Lakeside, but the reasons in this thread are the cause for pausing and thinking about it. I can see making an instant decision in PV, but can appreciate how that decision is a lot less easy in a town like Ajijic or Chapala.

Ours is not a where we live decision, we've already decided that Lakeside is where we belong, the question remains, where in Lakeside?

I can also appreciate GringoCArlos' stand about the 5%. Why should I give up the income from investments to buy/invest in a property not knowing what will happen. It is a very, very good point. Being a New Yorker, most people we grew up with rented their apartments for life, never owned them and they were none the less proud and caring of them. Without an income tax deduction for mortgage interest, what is the advantage of owning especially in a r/e market like today? (I suppose what is happening in the US also is happening in Mexico. Am I correct in thinking that?)

In the end, it is one more decision to make when you move. There is no "try" for us about the move there, that is a done deal, the only question is where to settle and how. Perhaps with more input from y'all and a couple of more visits, the answer will become apparent.


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## Merida Yucatan (Feb 13, 2012)

I agree it's best to rent first. I would try to get advice in Mexico. It is probably less 
expensive and more attuned to the situation here in Mexico.


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## kcowan (Jul 24, 2010)

We came for 6 years on holidays to PV, then rented for 5 years after retirement, finally buying 4 years ago. We bought in old town (Alta Vista). So far so good. We have been to Acapulco, Lakeside, Merida, San Miguel de Allende, Cancun, DF, Mazatlan, San Blas, Sayulita, Manzanillo, Guad, Monterray...probably some others.


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## Krogl (Jan 16, 2011)

Personally I would rent initially. There will always be a good real estate deal that comes along when you're ready to purchase. For me purchasing a home is simply another comittment I can do without at this point in my life.


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## Merida Yucatan (Feb 13, 2012)

There's exceptions to every rule of course. If one finds a unique property that suits them, or a property that is priced low, or if prices are rising rapidly, one has to decide whether to rush in order to take advantage of the opportunity.


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## tulum (Feb 20, 2012)

*los arboles*

We have bought a 5 acre jungle lot in Los Arboles ,Tulum. Currently have a builder and our home will be built in one year. So excited a real easy process with the lawyer and we have 2 trusts on our land, ask questions if needed


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## Merida Yucatan (Feb 13, 2012)

*Title insurance*

People can also buy title insurance in Mexico from some US companies. Almost no one feels the need to, but at least that option's there now.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Merida Yucatan said:


> People can also buy title insurance in Mexico from some US companies. Almost no one feels the need to, but at least that option's there now.


Mexican laws on property titles are different than those in the US. Title insurance is not needed because the laws provide legal recourse of several kinds if something goes wrong. Nevertheless, there is a growing title insurance market driven largely by foreigners who are used to purchasing it.

My opinion is based on reading an article on the subject written by a law professor at the University of San Diego. "Do Foreigners Need Title Insurance in Mexico? - An Analysis of U.S. Title Insurance and Mexican Real Estate Law" by Jeffrey G. Boman University of San Diego. It should be easy to find on the web or send me a request and I can send you a copy of it.


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## tulum (Feb 20, 2012)

*Buying land*

It really depends on how close to the ocean you are located. We have spent lots of time searching on how to buy land and the safe way in a foreign country. It can be very daunting. Also visiting places to compare and what kind of retiring and living we wanted. 

International Living magazine offers choices they have investigated thoroughly. For investment purposes and safety and not getting ripped off. Its a huge decision to buy or build instead of safe renting . You need to know where you want to live and renting will give you a good idea.

Its funny because all the real good investments we have done , like our home in Canada , has been a true feeling of knowing its home. You walk on the land or view the home and its like your whole body and soul wants it. It feels safe, good, in awe, beauty, birds, the land, the feel of walking the land and wanting to get back so soon.

That is how we felt about Los Arboles the minute we walked in the gates. 
We have a Mexican lawyer who speaks full english but knows the mexican rules. 
He knows how you have to have a trust in order to own land within 100 miles of the ocean. We have signed for our trust and it has 2 owners me and my hubby and one benefactor our son. Thats it with no probates. So if we pass it goes to him. It is legal which you need as there as so many disputes on property on the beach. We live 12km to the ocean on a very good highway.

We live on a acerage in Canada and needed space so could not buy a condo on the beach. But we needed smaller, eco driven, natural with lots of wildlife and birds, safe but a community we could grow and retire with. Close to the most incredible beaches and reef in the world, easy to get to but still not a huge metropolis like Cancun.

We have found our dream and in year will live there 6 months. We already opened a bank account, and have advice from our mexican lawyer on FM3 visa with owning a car. So its all falling into place so easy as it was meant to be:clap2:


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## Merida Yucatan (Feb 13, 2012)

Many people feel that having a fideicomiso reduces the need for title insurance to almost zero. 

As for International Living, not everyone is at all happy with some of their recommendations, but 
hopefully most work out well.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Does everyone understand that Title Companies don't really 'insure' you?
Also; that International Living will hype anyplace that puts them up for a while and buys advertising in the magazine. Then, they move on to another place; sometimes trashing the previous place in the process.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> Does everyone understand that Title Companies don't really 'insure' you? ...


It is the only "insurance" where they are not insuring against an uncertain future, they are merely insuring against their own mistakes. Consequently, their payout rate is a small fraction of that of the rest of the insurance industry.

Here’s the industry average payout, on $1 of PREMIUM dollars: (Source)

Health insurance – $.99
Auto insurance – $1.12
Homeownrs insurance – $.87
Workers comp – $1.42
Property insurance (nonhomeowners, nonauto) – $.67
Life insurance – $.65

For Title insurance the rate is $0.05 (Source)

In other words, only 5% of the title insurance premiums are paid out to compensate policy holders. The other 95% goes to the company for admin, marketing, profit, etc.


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## Merida Yucatan (Feb 13, 2012)

*Favourites ?*

Sorry for such a broad question, but what cities stood out as special to you ? I've seen beautiful pics of San Miguel de Allende. There are a lot of beautiful cities in Mexico !:clap2:


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Merida Yucatan said:


> Sorry for such a broad question, but what cities stood out as special to you ? I've seen beautiful pics of San Miguel de Allende. There are a lot of beautiful cities in Mexico !:clap2:


My list would include, in no particular order, and for very different reasons:
Mexico City
Guanajuato
San Cristobal de Las Casas
San Blas
Teuchitlán
La Paz
Abreojos
Zacatecas


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## Merida Yucatan (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks for your list Will. I can't think of another country with so many special cities as Mexico.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

I haven't been to all the cities on TundraGreen's list but the ones I have been to, I agree with him (heck, I live in one of them!).

I'd also add Oaxaca and Taxco.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

circle110 said:


> I haven't been to all the cities on TundraGreen's list but the ones I have been to, I agree with him (heck, I live in one of them!).
> 
> I'd also add Oaxaca and Taxco.


And Cuernavaca and Puebla.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

circle110 said:


> I haven't been to all the cities on TundraGreen's list but the ones I have been to, I agree with him (heck, I live in one of them!).
> 
> I'd also add Oaxaca and Taxco.


If you, or anyone, has been to all of them, I will be very surprised. I included one ringer on the list. Although it would be interesting place to live.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

Isla Verde said:


> And Cuernavaca and Puebla.


Agreed, especially Puebla.


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## tulum (Feb 20, 2012)

RVGRINGO said:


> Does everyone understand that Title Companies don't really 'insure' you?
> Also; that International Living will hype anyplace that puts them up for a while and buys advertising in the magazine. Then, they move on to another place; sometimes trashing the previous place in the process.


Geez thanks for all the positive comment.


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## kcowan (Jul 24, 2010)

I wonder what Tulum will do in the summer. We bought a condo because it is easy to deal with in the summer when we are away. Will you have a resident gardiner/housekeeper to look after things (like squatters/breakins)?

For Tundra, I don't see the attraction of San Blas. I could go into great detail if necessary!


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## tulum (Feb 20, 2012)

kcowan said:


> I wonder what Tulum will do in the summer. We bought a condo because it is easy to deal with in the summer when we are away. Will you have a resident gardiner/housekeeper to look after things (like squatters/breakins)?
> 
> For Tundra, I don't see the attraction of San Blas. I could go into great detail if necessary!


This is a gated secure community with 220/ 5 acre lots. People are starting to build homes now. Over 20 this month. Our new neighbour who we havent me in person, is single from CA and an artist who will live there full time. So he may take care of things for a small fee and then there is management companies that we think we might rent out and see how it goes. So all things will fall into place and then the idea of a housekeeper too. Fees are so small down there compared to Canada.

Its all so darn exciting!:juggle:


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

kcowan said:


> For Tundra, I don't see the attraction of San Blas. I could go into great detail if necessary!


If you didn't like San Blas, then Abreojos will definitely be beyond the pale for you.


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