# Have I made a mistake?



## scotlandboundsomeday (Apr 4, 2011)

The first time I applied (and was denied) I don't recall paying for the package to be sent back to me. I just got an e-mail w/ my UPS info shortly after being denied in a prior e-mail. I'm concerned about my appeal thats been sent to the Embassy in NYC. I did not send a money order or anything with this appeal. This is a portion from the e-mail I got last Friday:

_If you submitted your passport at the time of appeal, your entry clearance will shortly be issued. You will receive an email notifying you of this and providing you with a return UPS tracking number.

If you did not submit your passport at the time of appeal please send it back to us as soon as possible in order for your entry clearance to be issued. The envelope should be clearly marked for the attention of the Appeals Officer. You should also enclose a money order for $12, payable to the British Consulate General, in order for your passport and visa to be returned to you via overnight delivery by UPS._ 

I see the bit about the sending $12 back, but do they not mean the people who didn't send their passports? Our passports are with the appeal...I'm confused now ARGH!!! Also, this was the e-mail saying Entry Clearance was approved and would shortly be issued if I'd sent in my passports w/ the appeal (which I had)...Thanks for any help!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

scotlandboundsomeday said:


> The first time I applied (and was denied) I don't recall paying for the package to be sent back to me. I just got an e-mail w/ my UPS info shortly after being denied in a prior e-mail. I'm concerned about my appeal thats been sent to the Embassy in NYC. I did not send a money order or anything with this appeal. This is a portion from the e-mail I got last Friday:
> 
> _If you submitted your passport at the time of appeal, your entry clearance will shortly be issued. You will receive an email notifying you of this and providing you with a return UPS tracking number.
> 
> ...


If you went to full appeal, then the decision to allow your visa was made in London by an immigration judge.

_What happens if my appeal is allowed by an Immigration Judge? 

If your appeal is allowed, the determination will be sent to the relevant visa section who will in turn contact you. It can take up to 4 weeks for allowed determinations to reach the relevant visa section and *a further 8 weeks to process the determination*. The visa section will write to you using the contact details provided on your appeal form (IAFT-2). Please do not contact the visa section until 12 weeks have passed from the date you or your representative received the allowed determination. This date will be stated on your written determination. 

Do not contact the First-tier Tribunal (Immigration and Asylum Chamber) or the Immigration Enquiry Bureau (IEB) about your appeal after you have received your allowed determination. They will not be able to issue you with a visa or deal with your enquiry._
Appeals - visa application guide

Looks like you just have to wait until you get your visa, hopefully not 8 weeks! No, you don't need to send $12 as you have enclosed your passport with your appeal papers.
When did you lodge your appeal, and when did you hear about your successful appeal?


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## scotlandboundsomeday (Apr 4, 2011)

Joppa said:


> If you went to full appeal, then the decision to allow your visa was made in London by an immigration judge.
> 
> _What happens if my appeal is allowed by an Immigration Judge?
> 
> ...


I sent my appeal back to the same NY processing office UKBA who denied me the first time. I was told by them that if they overturned the original decision that I would hear back by e-mail. That if they denied it again, that @ that point it would be sent to the UK.

_If the refusal is overturned: If the ECM is satisfied that your application meets the Immigration Rules, the original decision may be overturned, and entry clearance approved. You will receive an email informing you of the next steps. 

If the refusal is upheld: If the ECM is still not satisfied that your application meets the Immigration Rules, the original decision may be upheld. If this is the case you will receive an email informing you that your appeal is being sent to the UK for a hearing at the Asylum and Immigration Tribunal (AIT). You will receive an email informing you of the next steps. _

So, like I said, I've heard back by e-mail on the 8th that the ECO there overturned the original decision. I did not enclose the $12 money order. My question is, if they send it back to me USPS and not UPS, would I get an e-mail saying it's been sent back to me?


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## scotlandboundsomeday (Apr 4, 2011)

Joppa said:


> If you went to full appeal, then the decision to allow your visa was made in London by an immigration judge.
> 
> _What happens if my appeal is allowed by an Immigration Judge?
> 
> ...


I've quoted you to ask a different question. My son and I, it was our Visa Appeals that were successful. I lodged/sent the appeal March 25th to the UKBA NY. I heard back on the 8th that the appeal was successful. I also have a daughter with my Scottish husband. My daughter only has a US passport. As said prior, my mother-in-law bought us our tickets to depart Florida May 5th. Is it OK that my daughter only has the US passport? She didn't have to submit the Settlement App because her father is British. I'm hearing from a diffo source that she has to have a UK passport (however, when we travelled before, it wasn't required)...she was allowed to enter on just her US passport. Any helpful info on that matter?...Thanks Joppa x


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

scotlandboundsomeday said:


> I've quoted you to ask a different question. My son and I, it was our Visa Appeals that were successful. I lodged/sent the appeal March 25th to the UKBA NY. I heard back on the 8th that the appeal was successful. I also have a daughter with my Scottish husband. My daughter only has a US passport. As said prior, my mother-in-law bought us our tickets to depart Florida May 5th. Is it OK that my daughter only has the US passport? She didn't have to submit the Settlement App because her father is British. I'm hearing from a diffo source that she has to have a UK passport (however, when we travelled before, it wasn't required)...she was allowed to enter on just her US passport. Any helpful info on that matter?...Thanks Joppa x


First about your appeal. So it wasn't a full appeal but an internal review by the consulate's visa section. In that case you should receive your visa soon, with a trackable UPS code.

As for your daughter, you are *strongly recommended *to get her British passport when entering UK for settlement. Previously you were only visiting(?) so it was obvious you were returning with her to US. This time you are staying in UK for good and they need to be persuaded to grant her entry as a visitor, and then you apply for her British passport in UK, but this is messy as she won't be leaving UK again on her visitor's leave. I have heard of families in similar circumstances experiencing hassle at UK border, as officers are reluctant to grant a limited leave to enter to someone who appears to be British and will not depart from the country on the same leave.


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## scotlandboundsomeday (Apr 4, 2011)

Joppa said:


> First about your appeal. So it wasn't a full appeal but an internal review by the consulate's visa section. In that case you should receive your visa soon, with a trackable UPS code.
> 
> As for your daughter, you are *strongly recommended *to get her British passport when entering UK for settlement. Previously you were only visiting(?) so it was obvious you were returning with her to US. This time you are staying in UK for good and they need to be persuaded to grant her entry as a visitor, and then you apply for her British passport in UK, but this is messy as she won't be leaving UK again on her visitor's leave. I have heard of families in similar circumstances experiencing hassle at UK border, as officers are reluctant to grant a limited leave to enter to someone who appears to be British and will not depart from the country on the same leave.


OK, what I was in the process of doing is having my husband apply for her British PP there. He is able to have the PP photos done online and mailed to him. At that point, when he got her passport, he was going to overnight it to me. Is this a good solution?


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## scotlandboundsomeday (Apr 4, 2011)

I am still freaking out about not having heard back from the UKBA yet. Espesh when others have said they heard back by e-mail right away...ARGH


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

scotlandboundsomeday said:


> OK, what I was in the process of doing is having my husband apply for her British PP there. He is able to have the PP photos done online and mailed to him. At that point, when he got her passport, he was going to overnight it to me. Is this a good solution?


You can only apply for passport in UK if the holder is actually in UK on the day of application. While there is no way of checking that your daughter is on British soil, your husband will be making a fraudulent application. Also whoever countersigns the application, such as someone in a professional capacity, has to give an undetaking that he/she has known your husband for 2 years and has seen your daughter. If the countersignatory knows your daughter is still in US, he/she will probably refuse to act, to avoid getting into trouble with the authorities.

Others who got their visa promptly were successful after initial application. You are getting yours as a result of an appeal, so the circumstance isn't exactly comparable.


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## scotlandboundsomeday (Apr 4, 2011)

Joppa said:


> You can only apply for passport in UK if the holder is actually in UK on the day of application. While there is no way of checking that your daughter is on British soil, your husband will be making a fraudulent application. Also whoever countersigns the application, such as someone in a professional capacity, has to give an undetaking that he/she has known your husband for 2 years and has seen your daughter. If the countersignatory knows your daughter is still in US, he/she will probably refuse to act, to avoid getting into trouble with the authorities.
> 
> Others who got their visa promptly were successful after initial application. You are getting yours as a result of an appeal, so the circumstance isn't exactly comparable.


Thank you, I will have to avoid doing that then. I guess I will pack her birth certificate, stating that her fathers birthplace is the UK and a copy of his passport and hope they allow us to stay. Do you think if I pack some photos of him holding her @ the hospital, if that'll help?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

scotlandboundsomeday said:


> Thank you, I will have to avoid doing that then. I guess I will pack her birth certificate, stating that her fathers birthplace is the UK and a copy of his passport and hope they allow us to stay. Do you think if I pack some photos of him holding her @ the hospital, if that'll help?


Read British Children Born Abroad : British Expat Wiki. What you propose is probably the least unsatisfactory way other than getting her British passport in US (probably too late now). A copy of the father's birth certificate - long form - will also help, to show he was born, adopted or naturalised in UK and thus able to transmit his citizenship to his daughter born abroad.


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## scotlandboundsomeday (Apr 4, 2011)

Joppa said:


> Read British Children Born Abroad : British Expat Wiki. What you propose is probably the least unsatisfactory way other than getting her British passport in US (probably too late now). A copy of the father's birth certificate - long form - will also help, to show he was born, adopted or naturalised in UK and thus able to transmit his citizenship to his daughter born abroad.


OK, again, THANK YOU!!! I checked out that site and someone had suggested the consular birth certificate. Problem is, takes up to 4 weeks. So, my Mother-in-law is faxing me a copy of my husbands long form birth certificate tomorrow. I guess now, it just comes down to being up to the Immigration Officer upon our arrival and lastly, hearing back by e-mail about where my return package is :confused2:
After all this, I need a drink, for your help, they're on me!


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## scotlandboundsomeday (Apr 4, 2011)

FINALLY! I just got the e-mails stating that both mine and my sons visa are headed back via UPS! Now the final step is entering the UK...and praying that my daughter is OK to stay on her US passport


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

scotlandboundsomeday said:


> FINALLY! I just got the e-mails stating that both mine and my sons visa are headed back via UPS! Now the final step is entering the UK...and praying that my daughter is OK to stay on her US passport


Great! I still think that an original rather than faxed copy of your husband's long birth certificate is better to have with you when entering UK. If your mother-in-law doesn't want to mail her copy (prob issued when his birth was registered), a copy can be had by post, or even you can order one to be airmailed:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp which should arrive within 10 days in US.
You need full details of your husband's birth, such as both parents' full names, where he was born (city or town and county; sometimes the hospital he was born in may lie in another town) and date of course.


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## scotlandboundsomeday (Apr 4, 2011)

Joppa said:


> Great! I still think that an original rather than faxed copy of your husband's long birth certificate is better to have with you when entering UK. If your mother-in-law doesn't want to mail her copy (prob issued when his birth was registered), a copy can be had by post, or even you can order one to be airmailed:
> https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp which should arrive within 10 days in US.
> You need full details of your husband's birth, such as both parents' full names, where he was born (city or town and county; sometimes the hospital he was born in may lie in another town) and date of course.


I agree, and you know what? I've just rummaged through papers my MIL sent me a few years ago and I have one that says "Extract of an entry in a REGISTER of BIRTHS"...is that a certified copy? Still have her send the original? (I'm sure she will). She is mailing a UK passport app as well, so that I can show them I plan to apply right away.


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## scotlandboundsomeday (Apr 4, 2011)

...What I have has all the above info you stated


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

scotlandboundsomeday said:


> I agree, and you know what? I've just rummaged through papers my MIL sent me a few years ago and I have one that says "Extract of an entry in a REGISTER of BIRTHS"...is that a certified copy? Still have her send the original? (I'm sure she will). She is mailing a UK passport app as well, so that I can show them I plan to apply right away.


It's an A4 paper with pale green background, titled 'Certified Copy of an Entry Persuant to the Births and Deaths Registration Act 1953' and signed in ink at the bottom by a registrar.


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## scotlandboundsomeday (Apr 4, 2011)

Joppa said:


> It's an A4 paper with pale green background, titled 'Certified Copy of an Entry Persuant to the Births and Deaths Registration Act 1953' and signed in ink at the bottom by a registrar.











It looks like this ^


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

scotlandboundsomeday said:


> It looks like this ^


Yes, looks like an old, hand-written certificate. That will do! And take your marriage certificate for good measure.


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## scotlandboundsomeday (Apr 4, 2011)

Joppa said:


> Yes, looks like an old, hand-written certificate. That will do! And take your marriage certificate for good measure.


Awesome! Thank you so very much for all your help/patience Joppa 
My marriage certificate is with the return package, will deffo pack.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

scotlandboundsomeday said:


> Awesome! Thank you so very much for all your help/patience Joppa
> My marriage certificate is with the return package, will deffo pack.


Put your documents in a plastic ziplock bag and place it into your carryon. Explain to immigration officer that though your daughter is travelling on US passport, she is a British citizen by descent and you will be applying for her passport in UK. If they ask for documentary proof, show it. By being businesslike and well-prepared, you will reduce the chance of a stressful encounter. They will probably ask why you didn't get her passport in US and may give you a lecture about proper procedure. Just say sorry, you understand but there was a lack of time and you will deal with passport straightaway. Make sure your husband, who presumably is meeting you at the airport, can be contacted on his mobile phone, in case the immigration want to speak to him.
All this may take place in an interview room away from the immigration counter - don't worry, just keep your composure, be polite and reasonable.


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## scotlandboundsomeday (Apr 4, 2011)

Joppa said:


> Put your documents in a plastic ziplock bag and place it into your carryon. Explain to immigration officer that though your daughter is travelling on US passport, she is a British citizen by descent and you will be applying for her passport in UK. If they ask for documentary proof, show it. By being businesslike and well-prepared, you will reduce the chance of a stressful encounter. They will probably ask why you didn't get her passport in US and may give you a lecture about proper procedure. Just say sorry, you understand but there was a lack of time and you will deal with passport straightaway. Make sure your husband, who presumably is meeting you at the airport, can be contacted on his mobile phone, in case the immigration want to speak to him.
> All this may take place in an interview room away from the immigration counter - don't worry, just keep your composure, be polite and reasonable.


Will do so. Thanks again :clap2:


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## scotlandboundsomeday (Apr 4, 2011)

Joppa said:


> Put your documents in a plastic ziplock bag and place it into your carryon. Explain to immigration officer that though your daughter is travelling on US passport, she is a British citizen by descent and you will be applying for her passport in UK. If they ask for documentary proof, show it. By being businesslike and well-prepared, you will reduce the chance of a stressful encounter. They will probably ask why you didn't get her passport in US and may give you a lecture about proper procedure. Just say sorry, you understand but there was a lack of time and you will deal with passport straightaway. Make sure your husband, who presumably is meeting you at the airport, can be contacted on his mobile phone, in case the immigration want to speak to him.
> All this may take place in an interview room away from the immigration counter - don't worry, just keep your composure, be polite and reasonable.


So, I've got our passports in hand with the Entry Clearance inside. I think everything is correct. However, my question is, is it meant to say 0 dependents on mine? In my sons, it says To Accompany *MY NAME*/Mother.


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## scotlandboundsomeday (Apr 4, 2011)

OK, after some searching online...I've found that the # of dependents refers to the number of dependents travelling on the same passport and children now have to have their own passport, so the 0 is correct?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

scotlandboundsomeday said:


> OK, after some searching online...I've found that the # of dependents refers to the number of dependents travelling on the same passport and children now have to have their own passport, so the 0 is correct?


Yes, your visa just covers you and your son has his own passport and visa, who is accompanying and joining you.


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