# Dubai Brit Faces 6 Months Jail For Flicking Finger



## cautious_mover (Dec 9, 2009)

Another one bites the dust:

Dubai Brit faces 6 months in jail for giving finger | The Sun |News

Best Quote:

A British source close to the case said: "Police in Dubai appear ready and eager to arrest and imprison any Westerner for the slightest infringement of their medieval code. British people living here are becoming increasingly uneasy - the situation is intolerable."


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

The Sun - a hypocritical rag. 

Such gestures have always been illegal here and there have been several well-documented cases of people being arrested or deported for such action. It may well appear 'draconian' to some, but in this culture it is highly offensive and as this person has chosen to live here, he has to abide by the rules, no matter whether he likes them or not. At age 56, he really should have known better.

Just more lazy Dubai bashing from vile UK tabloids.

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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

I agree 100% with your sentiments on The Sun but between the lines -

No witnesses and the accuser is failing repeatedly to turn up to court while a passport is held and the accused is left in limbo. Being drunk and having s*x on the beach is one thing but there are many people here who "respect local customs" and are suffering at the hands of a banana republic state and petty, vindictive individuals. 

To brush this off as "more Dubai bashing" is doing a disservice to all those suffering from rent and salary disputes whose less sensationalist cases may actually come to light.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

The case is daft and the punishment disproportionate to the 'crime', but The Sun is not interested in rent or salary disputes, only sensationalist stories where they can tut at the strange foreign practices.

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## Guest (Mar 29, 2010)

Anything that doesn't fit with the allegedly culturally superior Anglo-Saxon norm represents standard target practice for the British tabloids.

The real problem runs much deeper. They write it because that's what people enjoy reading. If they didn't, the rags wouldn't sell.

Says a lot about the mentality and intelligence of the average British reader these days.


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

Elphaba said:


> The case is daft and the punishment disproportionate to the 'crime', but The Sun is not interested in rent or salary disputes, only sensationalist stories where they can tut at the strange foreign practices.



Any exposure of injustice is better than none. 

Maybe if there was more "Dubai bashing" the place wouldn't actually be in the mess it's in.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Mr Rossi said:


> Any exposure of injustice is better than none.
> 
> Maybe if there was more "Dubai bashing" the place wouldn't actually be in the mess it's in.


Do you really believe that critical & biased pices in tabloid newspapers would make the slighest difference to Dubai?? Issues like this one are hardly relevant to the financial difficulties Dubai is in.

If someone makes a choice to live in the UAE, it is their responsibility to obey the local laws. Not liking or agreeing with them is not relevant, as if you cannot comply, for whatever reason, then you have to make an adult choice to live somewhere else. 

We all know that this country has its flaws, but making an issue of a case like this will really help nobody. The upside however, is that it may keep Sun readers away... 
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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Here's a different view on these types of issue from The Telegraph

Emiratis get increasingly tetchy with expats in the UAE - Telegraph

Maybe we all just need to be more considerate of other people's points of view?

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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Elphaba said:


> Here's a different view on these types of issue from The Telegraph
> 
> Emiratis get increasingly tetchy with expats in the UAE - Telegraph
> 
> ...





> live in constant fear for our children because of the spread of drugs and a rise in crime rates


Virtually all those held for consumption of drugs in Dubai's jails are Emiratis. FACT.



> In Dubai, Emiratis entrench themselves in neighbourhoods on the outskirts of the city in order not to have to mingle more than necessary with foreigners, whose customs differ widely from their own.


Really????? And where are these Emirati "Ghettos" Rashidiyah? Al Warqaa????



> Abdullah thinks that "the government must review its development strategy and reduce the proportion of its ambitious growth," which may have slowed in Dubai today but is still rampant in the UAE capital, Abu Dhabi.


Cake and eat it then???

I really don't understand why both sides are more tolerant of each other - instead of complaining to the police because of al alleged (Iraqi hasn't shown up in court yet) gesture, maybe discussion would be better.

But if you pay peanuts you do get monkeys....


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

Elphaba said:


> Do you really believe that critical & biased pices in tabloid newspapers would make the slighest difference to Dubai?? Issues like this one are hardly relevant to the financial difficulties Dubai is in.


Dubai's problems run deeper than financial mismanagement and a world wide recession. And it they are not exclusively the fault of Emirati's either. For example this is a country where ordering goods and/or services with no intention of paying from the offset is called 'good business'. This is called theft in my book.

People here behave like they are still trading in pearls, camels and slaves in a harbour souk, regardless of their nationality. This is the inherent problem with Dubai and it's understandable as Dubai is only 40 years young. However without criticism and accountability *of any kind* then there is no pressure to change and/or develop. 

Sure something like the recent Doha Debates is a more valid vehicle for criticism but don't underestimate the power of popular culture, regardless how vile you find it.



Elphaba said:


> If someone makes a choice to live in the UAE, it is their responsibility to obey the local laws. Not liking or agreeing with them is not relevant, as if you cannot comply, for whatever reason, then you have to make an adult choice to live somewhere else.


This is an often repeated mantra but look at the case in question. The accusation is denied, there were no witnesses and the accuser is repeatedly failing to attend court which suggests how serious he regards this manner. 

I don't think any ex-pat here has a problem with abiding with stricter rules than what they are used to back home. The problem lies in inconsistencies and any lack or method. It's no good to constantly say "obey the law" when that law and it's systematic procedures are total ambiguous.



Elphaba said:


> The upside however, is that it may keep Sun readers away... -


This is just snobbery.


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2010)

> The upside however, is that it may keep Sun readers away... -





Mr Rossi said:


> This is just snobbery.


Really? I thought it was pretty complimentary. I mean, it actually suggests that a fair proportion of Sun aficionados has learnt to read


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## Iron Horse (Apr 10, 2008)

Elphaba said:


> The Sun - a hypocritical rag.
> 
> Such gestures have always been illegal here and there have been several well-documented cases of people being arrested or deported for such action. It may well appear 'draconian' to some, but in this culture it is highly offensive and as this person has chosen to live here, he has to abide by the rules, no matter whether he likes them or not. At age 56, he really should have known better.
> 
> ...



I'll agree with you Elphaba about The Sun being worthless and the action being described, but I disagree with the way you've framed the situation, "...as this person has chosen to live here, he has to abide by the rules, no matter whether he likes them or not." It appears as if you've already convicted him for a crime he is denying. I'm sure from Simon Andrews' point of view it isn't bashing, but a man fighting for his name. Maybe the Iraqi is framing him? The Sun just piles on other cases to try and link the gesture with other laws they don't agree with. Even though I agree more with western laws/standards I'll abide by the laws here.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Fair point Iron Horse.

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## SBP (Jan 4, 2010)

Surely the point Mr Rossi was making was the fact that the Expat was being "potentially framed" due to no witnesses and the accuser not going to court to argue his accusation. 

Because of this non appearances the poor accused is left waiting. If that happened in most other countries the case would get thrown out for the accuser wasting the courts time.


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## Asma_dxb (Mar 24, 2010)

I think the problem here is that many people don't understand how offensive the gesture is to us in this part of the world. 
I've been through a similar situation where a south african man gave me in the finger. It was incredibly rude. And to add insult to injury, he kept harassing me in the road (he was angry because I wouldn't go over 130 km on Al khail rd). 
I reported him, and I wanted him to get arrested. Only because I wanted him to learn to never do that again (I dropped the charges I didn't want him to spend 6 months in jail).


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

I am so curious and really not understanding why is it so offensive. I really would like to understand why its so offensive that people go to jail for it? 

I get offended by it, but its just a gesture. Is it because Emiratis have been told over and over that its offensive, that they seem to think a gesture warrants six months in fail?


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## cautious_mover (Dec 9, 2009)

Jynxgirl said:


> I am so curious and really not understanding why is it so offensive. I really would like to understand why its so offensive that people go to jail for it?
> 
> I get offended by it, but its just a gesture. Is it because Emiratis have been told over and over that its offensive, that they seem to think a gesture warrants six months in fail?



I have actually never given the finger to anyone in my life ! 

Its offensive Jnxgirl because it implies "I will f*$$ you in the a$$...."


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

cautious_mover said:


> I have actually never given the finger to anyone in my life !
> 
> Its offensive Jnxgirl because it implies "I will f*$$ you in the a$$...."


I find that hilariously funny for some reason...  Not at all offensive 

All joking aside, I dont find any gesture offensive enough to bother me too much. I truly dont understand the middle east's hang up with the bird.


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

It may be offensive - but go to the police? Are they not men who can sort things out, they have to go running to the police?

Pathetic. really it is.


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## cautious_mover (Dec 9, 2009)

Jynxgirl said:


> I find that hilariously funny for some reason...  Not at all offensive
> 
> All joking aside, I dont find any gesture offensive enough to bother me too much. I truly dont understand the middle east's hang up with the bird.


I dont think the actual physical movement of the single finger is the issue. Its the implication of being reamed that concerns the receiver of the said gesture.

I guess if you could find a simultaneous gesture for a reacharound then at least its somewhat considerate !


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

But the Brits flick the Vs and the locals have no idea what we mean - Agincourt and all that!


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## sandypool (Sep 12, 2009)

cautious_mover said:


> I guess if you could find a simultaneous gesture for a reacharound then at least its somewhat considerate !


HA!

I have to say I have never given the gesture in anger to anyone. I'm youngish and amongst my friends it is occasionally given in reply when someone is making fun of you.

i.e. to your hungover friend "You look like you just fell out a camels backside" to which the reply is quite often "the bird" (why is it called a bird anyway - doesn't look like one).

That aside and whether you just think Generation E are a little weird for doing it I am still of the opinion that I would never really do it to someone who I meant it to. Even whilst driving I find it easier to keep my hands on the wheel and yell abuse through my teeth at the driver who just nearly killed me, rather than lose a great job by doing something that doesn't really come naturally anyway. If I am really peeved I use my horn.

Strangely enough the only time I have been subjected to abuse in the UAE was on the road into Umm Sequim where a land cruiser nearly crashed into my side. The driver rolled down the window and shouted " You F****er let me through". Driver was a young Emirati lady. My Companion and I burst into fits of laughter as it seemed so out of the ordinary. 

I would agree with Andy though. Even if I hadn't found it funny, this sort of action would never warrant a phone call to the police from me. It's unnecessary. Just revel in the fact that you are the better person in that situation, then get on with your day.


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## Longhorn (May 7, 2008)

I love how the sociology prof compared local Emiraties to the American Indians in this article...as 1/16th American Indian I should have the right to drive by her school and flip her the bird! 

hook em horns! \m/


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## GALLUS (Jan 22, 2009)

*unruly behaviour*

Dear

There is a concern for increased unruly behaviour in Dubai and other places by expats who believe in impunity or non -applicability of local rules. Maybe Dubai autorithies have been extremely tolerant so far compared to other Gulf countries. Like their neighbors they become under pressure form many lobbies, including religious. remember that in the 60s, mini-skirt was worn everywhere from Egypt to Jordan. What about now?

I agree with many that some rules are medieval and there is also here a matter of concern since some elements of such codes are contrary to basic International Human Rights standards. The other aspect of this peculiar situation is that some citizen of the Land, let us say High Profile People or reigning Royal/Prince families totally enjoy complete impunity for offenses, misdemeanor and some times crimes, which is non-sense.

The third aspect is the expedition of Justice and Police investigation that are very often damaging for the suspect (presumed innocent) when he is a Foreigner : confiscation of travel document, arbitrary detention or house arrest, non balanced investigations, slow and costly expedition of justice, manipulation of witness in order to change affidavits or retract. But I believe it is the same in Italy, Russia or UK.

This is what expats accept as a risk when they go to Foreign Land . Risk mitigation is part of the expat task. 

By the way, if you know you cannot handle alcohol, refrain from drinking.

Good luck


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## Blewyn (Feb 18, 2010)

IMHO everyone should be clearly informed upon booking their ticket for any country about the rules of behaviour there, especially countries like the UAE where standards of behaviour and dress that are considered normal in most of the world can cause offence.

If the Emiratis want to make giving the finger a criminal offence, the that is their right. However, the punishment should fit the crime - perhaps a 500Dhs fine or similar, but 3 months in jail ?? This smacks more of vindictiveness and bruised egos more than a desire to reform behaviour.

On a more serious note, there is a major problem with this law in that it seems to be applied in such a way that the Emirati accuser's word is taken as gospel, and it seems left to the accused to prove their innocence, not for the accuser to prove guilt. This means that any Emirati ya-hoo who decides that he doesn't like your face can simply accuse you of giving the finger, and put you in jail for 3 months, for nothing !!!


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## stewart (Jun 21, 2009)

The last finger man I heard of was deported back to Aust last year after his road rage.
Something the poms did years ago for people stealing a loaf of bread.


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## SBP (Jan 4, 2010)

Was in cab yesterday and driver cut him up and they both gave each other the finger and thought nothing of it.

Guess only applies to "easy" expats


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## stewart (Jun 21, 2009)

SBP said:


> Was in cab yesterday and driver cut him up and they both gave each other the finger and thought nothing of it.
> 
> Guess only applies to "easy" expats


Yer, that does not surprise me in the least.


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## silentlyhappy (Apr 21, 2010)

SBP said:


> Was in cab yesterday and driver cut him up and they both gave each other the finger and thought nothing of it.
> 
> Guess only applies to "easy" expats


It is with strange micture of surprise and relief that I feel whilst reading this article. The surprise part being that although I have only been here literally a few weeks, I have witnessed this done to myself on several occasions whilst driving around, and I must say that it is very rude also and almost makes me feel positevely angry if my Wife and Son happen to be present (Now that is completely unnaceptable infront of the Women and Children).
The relief part is that it appears that it is not only myself, as I was beginning to get a little worried that perhaps I was inadvertantly driving incorrectly, but as far as I could remember my Highway Code I just couldn't work out what I was doing wrong. Do you think that perhaps the local populace seem to drive how they please depite the regulations?, Or could I indeed be conceived as an "Easy Expat?"


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