# Spouse visa refusal appeal, please help



## computaa (Mar 2, 2012)

I had my wife's visa application refused yesterday for a very unexpected reason; they are not satisfied the accommodation is adequate. 

I provided a Tenancy contract only and the refusal paper said:

_<<<You have not provided satisfactory evidence to indicatie that the rental commitments the council tax are being met and it is unaccompanied by evidence a property inspection report detailing the condition, size and current occupancy of the residence, I am therefore not satisfied>>>_

I am going to appeal but I have only 3 days to prepare the papers as I will be travelling abroad to see my family after a long hard separation and a properly report will take time to be obtained. I am in a dilemma 

Is the council tax document enough to go with appeal? 
Do I have a good chance of successful appeal without property inspection report? what alternative to this report would be adequate?

Any advice will be highly appreciated


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

I recall you were using a solicitor for your application - were you ever provided with anything in writing from them about what documents you should provide? If so, this might help your case possibly. 

I think, if you DON'T include a property inspection report, you would lose your appeal immediately - simply because the UKBA has _specifically_ named this requirement. The council tax bill (which should also be sent) only shows who is responsible for the bill. It doesn't address the other issues UKBA raised (size and condition of the property, and evidence of no overcrowding). Therefore, not including a property inspection report is not provding all of the information that UKBA said was missing from your application.

This might well mean an alteration to your travel plans (painful as it is) - but an appeal is your one and only chance to get the refusal overturned, and it would be a terrible thing to blow your future because you didn't want to delay for a proper property inspection report by a qualified surveyor. It might be possible to obtain a report quickly by calling different (RICS-qualified) agents in your area, stating that you need an urgent report and you're calling all local agents to see who can provide one at reasonable cost in the quickest time. Somebody will likely be glad to jump ahead of the others in order to secure the work. I doubt it will be done in 3 days, but it would hopefully just mean a slightly postponed trip rather than months of waiting.

I wish you the very best of luck.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Also if you don't win the appeal, you will have to re-apply, and will then be subject to the new July 9th rules (I presume you've got in under the old rules), with increased financial requirement and implication for future renewals and settlement application.


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## liam85 (May 24, 2012)

This situation is worrying me. I've sent our fiancee application off without this housing report. We've put that we are going to stay at parents house, with their title dead and a letter saying we can live there also detailing rooms (not measured) signed by my parents. But I've also said that this is just a backup plan and actually we are going to rent when/if the visa is secured with a print-out from rightmove detailing the type of place we are looking at.

It says on the UKBA site that you should not secure a ticket or accommodation until the visa is issued and it also says that accommodation can be prospective. 

Is this just the case for fiancee visa but for a spousal you have to have accommodation already secured?

Damn i said to myself I wasn't going to come on here until I get a decision on the visa just incase I came across something thats going to make me worry, like this!!!


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

liam85 said:


> This situation is worrying me. I've sent our fiancee application off without this housing report. We've put that we are going to stay at parents house, with their title dead and a letter saying we can live there also detailing rooms (not measured) signed by my parents. But I've also said that this is just a backup plan and actually we are going to rent when/if the visa is secured with a print-out from rightmove detailing the type of place we are looking at.
> 
> It says on the UKBA site that you should not secure a ticket or accommodation until the visa is issued and it also says that accommodation can be prospective.
> 
> ...


Worrying is an intrinsic part of the process, I'm sure. We all did it. 

For evidence of accommodation requirements, the UKBA states:



> This could include:
> &#56256;&#56510; Land Registry documents
> &#56256;&#56510; mortgage statements
> &#56256;&#56510; rent book or tenancy agreement
> ...


A property inspection report is just one of many optional ways to provide evidence of where you'll live, and whether or not an applicant will need one likely depends on whether there is enough other information to satisfy the UKBA. Firstly, you're staying in a privately bought rather than a rented house and you provided details of all the rooms (signed by your parents), secondly you're staying with your parents and, whilst I'm no ECO, I would guess that it would seem reasonable that parents can reasonably accommodate their offspring. Finally, you are not in the UK already and so it's going to be assumed that your initial arrangements are going to be temporary until you're back in the UK - and you also outlined your future plans once here.

Property inspection reports can be requested by the UKBA if there isn't sufficient other evidence, but in your case I doubt it's needed.


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## liam85 (May 24, 2012)

2farapart said:


> Worrying is an intrinsic part of the process, I'm sure. We all did it.
> 
> For evidence of accommodation requirements, the UKBA states:
> 
> ...


Thanks, this makes me feel abit better, I just hope you're right although I'm still going to worry myself to death 
Also I don't understand why they have straight up refused the OPs application, I thought if they wanted additional evidence like this they send an email or letter asking for it.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

It seems to vary. Maybe it's different hubs. Another refused applicant here was asked to provide additional documents, and was only refused when those did not satisfy the UKBA either.

I fear it's just pot-luck.


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## computaa (Mar 2, 2012)

Thank you 2farapart & Joppa for your time and precious advice. 

Yes I had a solicitor, who prepared my papers and did so many mistakes that in the end I gave him a warning to refund my full money back with in 5 days or I refer him to the Legal ombudsmen at the Attorney Genreal Office and he paid straight away without a word. 

He was actually an Immigration Barrister, one of the most referred to by Google. if you search he will come on top.

I managed to get a someone to do a survey at short notice and the report should be with me in 24 hour. I hope he will not fail me. That is what was worrying me most, not being able to get this report. 

I do not believe for a second UKBA have the right to refuse a spouse visa simply because they need more information, the document they asked for is not a requirement by law. and it is wrong to refuse because I did not provide a paper they have not asked for it in the first place, the officer should have asked for more information. 

My story with the embassy is long and bitter, I believe they targeted me because I made two complaints against them one week before they refuse the visa because of the appalling way they treat people. 

I will provide a survey and a council tax document with the appeal, but should I also send all the the visa documents I sent to the embassy??

Also, will the appeal tribunal look in to the reason of refusal, or would they re assess all other aspects of the application? including the financial situation, the sustainability of relation.. etc.. ?


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Well done on getting your money back. I'm glad about that. It's unfortunate that this same person may be ill-advising others too.

At this stage, unless Joppa or someone else knows otherwise, take no chance at this late stage of leaving anything out. I would place the two required documents at the top with a covering letter, then bundle your other supporting evidence separately. 

I'm not sure how Tribunals work (my guess would be that they look at the matter behind your refusal and then consider whether you've redressed the issue, but that IS only my guess).

I wish you the greatest luck with this. It maddens me that the few refusals coming through here of late seem to be at the hands of advisers and solicitors who at best are not up to date, and at worst are plain reckless in their advice. Hopefully they are a very tiny minority.


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## TEE-88 (Oct 20, 2012)

*Spouse Visa*

Hello!

I was wondering if anyone could help me, i have applied for a spouse visa for my wife to come to UK. I submitted my appliacation in April before the rule change. I submitted it with all official documents containting passports, bank statements, accomodation certificates from the council, property deeds etc. I applied together with third party support. I provided all legitamate and documents needed like sponsorship letter affvidate etc. They refused the visa on the this basis 281 vi v. They say to go online and check why however when i go online to look its showing education which is not the problem as both parties are educated. Ive visited a law centre and they looked it up and it comes under accomodation not being suitable.. i supplied an official council document stating our property is a six bedroomed house with all the sizes outlined and fit to accomodate another person as there is only five persons livin at the property? I dont understand why they have refused it as it took them six months to get back to me and they didnt even look into the case properly. i provided my documents with a contents page and provided divders explaining which section covers what so i really dont understand why they havent looked at it properly as all documents were supplied. they also mention that im not working and im totally dependant on family. they also mention that its hard to find a job these days.. so if they know full well that the current climate isnt supporting people in finding work whats the problem? im not on JSA and havent been for a year. we will not be dependant on public funds and i outlined that as we a finances dont require for us to go to jsa. all paper work supporting this were provided. could someone please assist me futher. I need to submit my appeal by monday and will be appealing paper wise as i cannot afford a solicitor to represent me in court. I am aware i can do it myself however with it being the first time ever in exteded family that we have applied for a visa i am not confident in presenting myself infront of the judge with not knowing anything in regards to a visa. what shall i do?


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## Sticker (Oct 8, 2012)

The reasons of refusal are not clear. please explain the point one by one. 

You need to have stable and adequate income in addition to the appropriate accommodation. you show your income by a letter from your employer, bank statements... etc.. and accommodation survey of the house to prove it is suitable and will not be overcrowded. 

You need to address the above successfully in your appeal if you are to get a visa.


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## TEE-88 (Oct 20, 2012)

Sticker said:


> The reasons of refusal are not clear. please explain the point one by one.
> 
> You need to have stable and adequate income in addition to the appropriate accommodation. you show your income by a letter from your employer, bank statements... etc.. and accommodation survey of the house to prove it is suitable and will not be overcrowded.
> 
> You need to address the above successfully in your appeal if you are to get a visa.



I am not working at the moment. I am not on JSA. I have applied for a spouse visa on the basis that y family will support me. Council letter states there will not be an overcrowed if the spouse comes to live here. they have responded with this:- 

your sponsor appears to be wholly dependant on various family members for his support and i am not satisfied that this puts him in a position to be able to maintain and accomodate you at this time in the uk. paragraph iv v. i have therefore refused the application because i am not satisfied on the balance of probabilities that you meet all requirements of the above paragraphs of the immigration rules. 

the paragraphs claused or because of accomodation but we have a six bedroom house. its sufficient enough. 

thanks


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

TEE-88 said:


> I am not working at the moment. I am not on JSA. I have applied for a spouse visa on the basis that y family will support me. Council letter states there will not be an overcrowed if the spouse comes to live here. they have responded with this:-
> 
> your sponsor appears to be wholly dependant on various family members for his support and i am not satisfied that this puts him in a position to be able to maintain and accomodate you at this time in the uk. paragraph iv v. i have therefore refused the application because i am not satisfied on the balance of probabilities that you meet all requirements of the above paragraphs of the immigration rules.
> 
> ...


(sorry - just read your post that you applied before the new rules, so my answer is now edited)

Do you receive any income at all? I don't know whether UKBA are satisfied when ALL financial support comes from a third party, because there are no provable guarantees for how long it would last given that it's based exclusively on the goodwill of the third party involved.


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## Sticker (Oct 8, 2012)

If you do not work at all, I do not have enough knowledge to advise how you can sponsor your wife. 

You said you had a third party involved in the application, Ask them on what basis did they approve your finances? ask them which rules did they based their decision on?


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## TEE-88 (Oct 20, 2012)

Sticker said:


> If you do not work at all, I do not have enough knowledge to advise how you can sponsor your wife.
> 
> You said you had a third party involved in the application, Ask them on what basis did they approve your finances? ask them which rules did they based their decision on?


We provided them with property deeds to show what assets we hold. Wage slips, p45s bank statements, letter from bank everything


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## TEE-88 (Oct 20, 2012)

Sticker said:


> If you do not work at all, I do not have enough knowledge to advise how you can sponsor your wife.
> 
> You said you had a third party involved in the application, Ask them on what basis did they approve your finances? ask them which rules did they based their decision on?


Ask who? What I've said above is all that's written in the refusal letter. Thanks


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## TEE-88 (Oct 20, 2012)

2farapart said:


> (sorry - just read your post that you applied before the new rules, so my answer is now edited)
> 
> Do you receive any income at all? I don't know whether UKBA are satisfied when ALL financial support comes from a third party, because there are no provable guarantees for how long it would last given that it's based exclusively on the goodwill of the third party involved.


I understand where you coming from but we put it clearly that as long as it takes and we also put down if we are in financial bother we will not seek jsa. My fathers put if my son goes to jsa I personally will inform you. Why is third part support in place if they still going to refuse it. I've got funds in my bank and declared that from bank statements which they know will cover me for three years atleast


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## Sticker (Oct 8, 2012)

Sorry I mixed things up and thought you had a solicitor.

It is not enough to state you will not seek benefits, things does not work that way. You need to satisfy them you are in good financial situation and will not need the benefits, but as you are on JSA at the moment, it is very hard to prove the point. 

If you are sure you have satisfied all immigration rules, prove this in the appeal. 

You also said you presented a bank statement with money enough for 3 years. You will need 111.45 to sponser your wife x 52 weeks = £5795 this is the money you will need for one year, do you have 3 times this money?? if yes then there is no problem and the embassy is wrong. 

Think positively, Go to Europe, Germany or France and get your wife there. you can transfer your benefits to Europe. in other words the government will pay you the JSA in Germany for 3 months until you find job. This is an option for you keep it in your mind. 

I wish you the best of luck


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

TEE-88 said:


> I understand where you coming from but we put it clearly that as long as it takes and we also put down if we are in financial bother we will not seek jsa. My fathers put if my son goes to jsa I personally will inform you. Why is third part support in place if they still going to refuse it. I've got funds in my bank and declared that from bank statements which they know will cover me for three years atleast


I'm not altogether familiar with the financial aspects of the old rules regarding support as they were more vague than the new rules, but my impression was that third party support is permitted to _assist you_ in meeting the requirement (ie boost your income if limited), but I'm not sure that they would approve of a third party WHOLLY providing the support without the UK sponsor bringing any income or savings into the equation (which seems to be what UKBA is implying in their reply).

Maybe Joppa can throw more light on this.


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## TEE-88 (Oct 20, 2012)

Sticker said:


> Sorry I mixed things up and thought you had a solicitor.
> 
> It is not enough to state you will not seek benefits, things does not work that way. You need to satisfy them you are in good financial situation and will not need the benefits, but as you are on JSA at the moment, it is very hard to prove the point.
> 
> ...


Thank you.. I am not on jsa, fingers crossed that it goes well thank you


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## manida (Aug 23, 2012)

Hello I applied for visa to join my husband in uk he live with his parent and 3 sisters 
my accommodation documents is:
land registry
property inspection report
letter from his parent saying i can live there ( Is this need to be notarised???)
i'm worry about this is that enough for accomodation in uk???


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