# The plan for a uk man with little money to be together with his filipina wife



## Welsh Guy

OK I have collected bits of information from everywhere in order to make a plan of action. Can someone please tell me if there are any mistakes or can add anything to it.
It should be more or less perfect but to be on the safe side can someone check it over for me. Thank you very much,

*THE PLAN FOR A UK MAN WITH LITTLE MONEY TO BE TOGETHER WITH HIS FILIPINA WIFE*

1) First find a job to go to Germany.

2) You can sublet a place or even just rent a room in a flatshare. All the Ausländerbehörde can ask for is your Anmeldung, they can't force you to show your rental agreement, that's for German people bringing in non-EEA spouses under German domestic immigration law.

3) Register your residence at the local Meldeamt

4) 6. Go to Ausländerbehörde (make appointment early!!!!) and apply for her Aufenthaltskarte (usually granted on the spot and arrives after about 3 weeks) it is valid for 5 years and allows unrestricted access to the job market. Cost for the card is around € 25. Your wife will need to do this as well when she returns with you if she wants to work.

5) Start work. Once you have saved enough for your partner to fly to fly to the UK to be married you have to get a visitor visa for her (easy to get, only for getting married, no work allowed - basically a tourist visa that allows you to get married).

Then fly to meet your gf at Heathrow airport and get married in UK. 

The UK marriage visitor visa takes about 3 weeks to be issued, costs £83. 

The marriage visitor visa does not lead to settlement. The non-EEA partner would have to leave the country and apply for a spouse visa from their home country or a country they are ordinarily resident in 

Its a visa for family reunion
("marriage" or "spouse" visa) needed with a "EU" citizen in order to stay permanently with you in Germany.

6) So after the marrage, get your wife a short term Schengen visa (free of charge and priority processing for spouses of EU citizens)
You need to apply at the German Embassy wherever you are at that point - UK or the Philippines.
Embassy of the Federal Republic of Germany London - Visa
You book an appointment online, fill in the form online, print it out, sign it and hand all documents to the Embassy at the appointment. Under EU law, they should issue the visa within 15 days.

7) Move to Germany with wife and continue to work

8) You will need to establish a life in Germany. It is hard to say when this happened but I would say at least 1 to 1 1/2 years, before being able to return to the UK

we suggest that you
contact the German embassy in London beforehand, in order to know if and under
what conditions a visa application in the UK might be possible. Please find
all contact details at the following link:

Auswärtiges Amt - German missions
You would have to apply for an EEA family permit for the UK (valid 6 months) and upon arrival in the UK for EEA2 (their version of the residence card/Aufenthaltskarte). Processing for EEA2 can take up to 6 months but she should get a COA (certificate of application) stating her right to work while her application is under process.

She would be entitled to child benefit and if she works to child tax credit, working tax credit, etc.


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## ALKB

Welsh Guy said:


> I actually started a new thread as I think its alot less confusing to read different bits of info.
> I will also put here what I wrote as well. Maybe theres little point but anyway.
> I think I have gathered all the info and have put it all together the way I think I am going nto execute it. Any mistakes or something I missed out, let me know.
> 
> *THE PLAN FOR A UK MAN WITH LITTLE MONEY TO BE TOGETHER WITH HIS FILIPINA WIFE*
> 
> 1) First find a job to go to Germany.
> 
> 2) You can sublet a place or even just rent a room in a flatshare. All the Ausländerbehörde can ask for is your Anmeldung, they can't force you to show your rental agreement, that's for German people bringing in non-EEA spouses under German domestic immigration law.
> 
> 3) Register your residence at the local Meldeamt
> 
> 4) Go to Ausländerbehörde (make appointment early!!!!) and apply for her Aufenthaltskarte (usually granted on the spot and arrives after about 3 weeks) it is valid for 5 years and allows unrestricted access to the job market. Cost for the card is around € 25. Your wife will need to do this as well when she returns with you if she wants to work.
> 
> 5) Start work. Once you have saved enough for your partner to fly to fly to the UK to be married you have to get a visitor visa for her (easy to get, only for getting married, no work allowed - basically a tourist visa that allows you to get married).
> 
> Then fly to meet your gf at Heathrow airport and get married in UK.
> 
> The UK marriage visitor visa takes about 3 weeks to be issued, costs £83.
> 
> The marriage visitor visa does not lead to settlement. The non-EEA partner would have to leave the country and apply for a spouse visa from their home country or a country they are ordinarily resident in
> 
> Its a visa for family reunion
> ("marriage" or "spouse" visa) needed with a "EU" citizen in order to stay permanently with you in Germany.
> 
> 6) So after the marrage, get your wife a short term Schengen visa (free of charge and priority processing for spouses of EU citizens)
> You need to apply at the German Embassy wherever you are at that point - UK or the Philippines.
> Embassy of the Federal Republic of Germany London - Visa
> You book an appointment online, fill in the form online, print it out, sign it and hand all documents to the Embassy at the appointment. Under EU law, they should issue the visa within 15 days.
> 
> 7) Move to Germany with wife and continue to work
> 
> 8) You will need to establish a life in Germany. It is hard to say when this happened but I would say at least 1 to 1 1/2 years, before being able to return to the UK
> 
> we suggest that you
> contact the German embassy in London beforehand, in order to know if and under
> what conditions a visa application in the UK might be possible. Please find
> all contact details at the following link:
> 
> Auswärtiges Amt - German missions
> You would have to apply for an EEA family permit for the UK (valid 6 months) and upon arrival in the UK for EEA2 (their version of the residence card/Aufenthaltskarte). Processing for EEA2 can take up to 6 months but she should get a COA (certificate of application) stating her right to work while her application is under process.
> 
> She would be entitled to child benefit and if she works to child tax credit, working tax credit, etc.


Number 4 is not quite right.

You yourself only need to register your residence (as any other person living in Germany including German citizens). It is only your wife who needs an Aufenthaltskarte.

So you can start work right away. In another thread you said that you have already worked in Germany in the past, so you already have a German tax number - all set!

Also, spouses of EEA nationals do not need a family reunion visa to enter Germany in order to settle, again , that's for Germans and people settled in Germany. A short term Schengen (tourist visa) is fine. If the Embassy tries to tell you otherwise it's probably because they don't have a lot of EEA cases. Write a cover letter insisting that your application will be processed under EU law.

The tricky/expensive part is to get together with her and marry, everything else after that is pretty easy (have done similar from Germany to UK, EU law speeds things up considerably).

ALSO! You are planning to start to work first in Germany, then get married and get her over - note that you will then of course fall outside the 90 days rule and you will indeed have to show that you are exercising treaty rights (work, at least 15 hours/week, self-sufficient or student) and your health insurance when applying for her Aufenthaltskarte


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## Welsh Guy

ALKB said:


> Number 4 is not quite right.
> 
> It is only your wife who needs an Aufenthaltskarte.
> 
> In another thread you said that you have already worked in Germany in the past, so you already have a German tax number - all set!
> 
> ALSO! You are planning to start to work first in Germany, then get married and get her over - note that you will then of course fall outside the 90 days rule and you will indeed have to show that you are exercising treaty rights (work, at least 15 hours/week, self-sufficient or student) and your health insurance when applying for her Aufenthaltskarte


I still have a Aufenthaltserlaubnis thats expired. Wont I need to get another ? Is that not the same as an Aufenthaltskarte ?

How do I find out my German tax Nr. Long time since I worked there ?

I still have a Socialversicherungsauweis and there is no expiry date on that. Was aussgestellt am 15.11.94. I take it thats still valid ?

This 90 day thing. If you was to get married before that, is it any easier.
Whats the difference in things I must do.
If I am working anyway then theres not much difference ? more or less the same process ?
Thanks for your help by the way, I am looking for work as an Aircraft Paint Sprayer, or Industrial paint sprayer. If anyone knows of companys that export Brits to German companies let me know. I used to work for people like I.S.E and Interlord but I think they all don't exist anymore. Any tips would be great. Thanks


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## ALKB

Welsh Guy said:


> I still have a Aufenthaltserlaubnis thats expired. Wont I need to get another ? Is that not the same as an Aufenthaltskarte ?
> 
> How do I find out my German tax Nr. Long time since I worked there ?
> 
> I still have a Socialversicherungsauweis and there is no expiry date on that. Was aussgestellt am 15.11.94. I take it thats still valid ?
> 
> This 90 day thing. If you was to get married before that, is it any easier.
> Whats the difference in things I must do.
> If I am working anyway then theres not much difference ? more or less the same process ?
> Thanks for your help by the way, I am looking for work as an Aircraft Paint Sprayer, or Industrial paint sprayer. If anyone knows of companys that export Brits to German companies let me know. I used to work for people like I.S.E and Interlord but I think they all don't exist anymore. Any tips would be great. Thanks


Hm. Do you have any old salary slips from Germany? It should state your tax number.

The old social security ID's are no longer in use.

If it has been a long time since you left Germany, they might just allocate you a new tax number (not sure when this system was set up), in any case you don't have to do anything, if you need a new tax number, it will be automatically sent to you after you register your residence at the Meldeamt.

As an EEA citizen you don't need a residence permit. They used to give out Freizügigkeitsbescheinigungen - a paper saying that you don't need a paper to live in Germany - obviously redundant, so abolished.

If you get married before moving to Germany, your wife can move with you right away and for the first 90 days you don't need to show a job or finances when applying for her Aufenthaltskarte. If you are working anyways, there is not much difference, just be aware that you need to bring a salary slip and Mitgliedsbescheinigung of your health insurance for you and your wife when applying for her residence card.

The hurdle to take is to finance the initial move, I think. Setting up in a new country is always expensive - as you might remember from last time


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## Welsh Guy

I have just received an e-mail 
From Foreign Office Help Desk ([email protected])

*I forwarded my exact plan as is above to them and this is what they came back with*

Thank you for contacting the Help Desk of the German Foreign Office.

We are sorry to inform you that we cannot guarantee your plan or provide you
with any information concerning the entry or stay of your girlfriend in Great
Britain. We would like to point out, that with a British residence permit your
girlfriend, even if she is your spouse after marriage in Great Britain, cannot
enter Germany and the Schengen area (Great Britain is not part of the Schengen
area).

Please check each single part of your plan with the respectively competent
authorities.

The part of your plan referring to visa for Germany (point 6)

"6) So after the marrage, get your wife a short term Schengen visa (free of
charge and priority processing for spouses of EU citizens)You
need to apply at the German Embassy wherever you are at that point - UK or the
Philippines.Embassy of the Federal Republic of Germany London - VisaYou book
an appointment online, fill in the form online, print it out, sign it and hand
all documents to the Embassy at the appointment.
Under EU law, they should issue the visa within 15 days."

has to be corrected as follows:

In order to stay permanently in Germany, your wife will need a national visa
for "EU"-spouses (not a Schengen visa).

Please find enclosed the information sheet for an "Application for Family
Reunion (Residence Permit), Re: Joining EU/EEA spouse or moving together with
EU/EEA spouse to Germany".

You should check with the German embassy in London, if a visa application
there would be possible in your special case. If not, your girlfriend would
have to apply for the visa at the German embassy in Manila.

Sincerely,
Your Help Desk Officer


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## ALKB

Welsh Guy said:


> I have just received an e-mail
> From Foreign Office Help Desk ([email protected])
> 
> *I forwarded my exact plan as is above to them and this is what they came back with*
> 
> Thank you for contacting the Help Desk of the German Foreign Office.
> 
> We are sorry to inform you that we cannot guarantee your plan or provide you
> with any information concerning the entry or stay of your girlfriend in Great
> Britain. We would like to point out, that with a British residence permit your
> girlfriend, even if she is your spouse after marriage in Great Britain, cannot
> enter Germany and the Schengen area (Great Britain is not part of the Schengen
> area).
> 
> Please check each single part of your plan with the respectively competent
> authorities.
> 
> The part of your plan referring to visa for Germany (point 6)
> 
> "6) So after the marrage, get your wife a short term Schengen visa (free of
> charge and priority processing for spouses of EU citizens)You
> need to apply at the German Embassy wherever you are at that point - UK or the
> Philippines.Embassy of the Federal Republic of Germany London - VisaYou book
> an appointment online, fill in the form online, print it out, sign it and hand
> all documents to the Embassy at the appointment.
> Under EU law, they should issue the visa within 15 days."
> 
> has to be corrected as follows:
> 
> In order to stay permanently in Germany, your wife will need a national visa
> for "EU"-spouses (not a Schengen visa).
> 
> Please find enclosed the information sheet for an "Application for Family
> Reunion (Residence Permit), Re: Joining EU/EEA spouse or moving together with
> EU/EEA spouse to Germany".
> 
> You should check with the German embassy in London, if a visa application
> there would be possible in your special case. If not, your girlfriend would
> have to apply for the visa at the German embassy in Manila.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Your Help Desk Officer



You have to understand that none of the member states LIKE having to apply the very simple EU rules of free movement.

Have a look here:

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/citizenship/docs/guide_free_movement_low.pdf

and here:

Directive 2004/38/EC | freedom of movement in the EU

and if you are brave, here:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...jhQsDCShFyBf!-1396097169?uri=CELEX:32004L0038

In theory, your wife doesn't need a visa at all when travelling with you within Europe. Just carry your marriage certificate (and a European law book). In practice, airlines are unlikely to let you board but it has been accomplished before.

Of course Germany would like you to get a family reunion visa - it can take months to get issued.

BUT European law says that you can apply for a short term Schengen visa free of charge and it should be issued within 90 days.

You can convert this visa into a residence card in Germany - I know several people who have done this.


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## ALKB

Welsh Guy said:


> I have just received an e-mail
> From Foreign Office Help Desk ([email protected])
> 
> *I forwarded my exact plan as is above to them and this is what they came back with*
> 
> Thank you for contacting the Help Desk of the German Foreign Office.
> 
> We are sorry to inform you that we cannot guarantee your plan or provide you
> with any information concerning the entry or stay of your girlfriend in Great
> Britain. We would like to point out, that with a British residence permit your
> girlfriend, even if she is your spouse after marriage in Great Britain, cannot
> enter Germany and the Schengen area (Great Britain is not part of the Schengen
> area).
> 
> Please check each single part of your plan with the respectively competent
> authorities.
> 
> The part of your plan referring to visa for Germany (point 6)
> 
> "6) So after the marrage, get your wife a short term Schengen visa (free of
> charge and priority processing for spouses of EU citizens)You
> need to apply at the German Embassy wherever you are at that point - UK or the
> Philippines.Embassy of the Federal Republic of Germany London - VisaYou book
> an appointment online, fill in the form online, print it out, sign it and hand
> all documents to the Embassy at the appointment.
> Under EU law, they should issue the visa within 15 days."
> 
> has to be corrected as follows:
> 
> In order to stay permanently in Germany, your wife will need a national visa
> for "EU"-spouses (not a Schengen visa).
> 
> Please find enclosed the information sheet for an "Application for Family
> Reunion (Residence Permit), Re: Joining EU/EEA spouse or moving together with
> EU/EEA spouse to Germany".
> 
> You should check with the German embassy in London, if a visa application
> there would be possible in your special case. If not, your girlfriend would
> have to apply for the visa at the German embassy in Manila.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Your Help Desk Officer



You have to understand that none of the member states LIKE having to apply the very simple EU rules of free movement.

Have a look here:

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/citizenship/docs/guide_free_movement_low.pdf

and here:

Directive 2004/38/EC | freedom of movement in the EU

and if you are brave, here:

EUR-Lex - 32004L0038 - EN - EUR-Lex

In theory, your wife doesn't need a visa at all when travelling with you within Europe. Just carry your marriage certificate (and a European law book). In practice, airlines are unlikely to let you board but it has been accomplished before.

Of course Germany would like you to get a family reunion visa - it can take months to get issued.

BUT European law says that you can apply for a short term Schengen visa free of charge and it should be issued within 90 days.

You can convert this visa into a residence card in Germany - I know several people who have done this.


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## Welsh Guy

> From Foreign Office Help Desk ([email protected])
> 
> We would like to point out, that with a British residence permit your
> girlfriend, even if she is your spouse after marriage in Great Britain, cannot
> enter Germany and the Schengen area (*Great Britain is not part of the Schengen
> area*).
> 
> Sincerely,
> Your Help Desk Officer


Hi ALKB,

Thanks for your reply and I do hope you are right.
What is your reply about Great Britain not being a part of the Schengen area and therefore is not entitled to a short term Schengen visa as is implied by the German Foreign Office.
Surely The German Foreign Office can not make such a bold statement without there being any substance in it. Surely if this is a bold lie The UK Foreign Office should make a complaint if they read this as if its wrong then its just bold deception which is a disgrace. 
Would you call it a gamble to do it your way or do you consider it safe and if there was a problem would they be dictatorial like they used to be and do as they please ?
Thanks mate you have been vey helpful


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## ALKB

Welsh Guy said:


> Hi ALKB,
> 
> Thanks for your reply and I do hope you are right.
> What is your reply about Great Britain not being a part of the Schengen area and therefore is not entitled to a short term Schengen visa as is implied by the German Foreign Office.
> Surely The German Foreign Office can not make such a bold statement without there being any substance in it. Surely if this is a bold lie The UK Foreign Office should make a complaint if they read this as if its wrong then its just bold deception which is a disgrace.
> Would you call it a gamble to do it your way or do you consider it safe and if there was a problem would they be dictatorial like they used to be and do as they please ?
> Thanks mate you have been vey helpful


Your wife can't enter the UK on a short term Schengen visa as they are not part of Schengen - she needs a UK marriage visitor visa for the UK. The short term Schengen visa is for Germany and the rest of the Schengen countries - two separate things. It is valid for 90 days and during this time she can apply for her residence card. It has been done many times.

That's why I mentioned before that you might want to look into getting married in the Philippines and apply for her Schengen visa right away in her country of residence, cutting out the travelling in and out of the Schengen zone. If you can pay a ticket for her to come to the UK to get married surely you could do it the other way around?

I notice that you aren't saying anything about the daughter. Her visa will probably be much more complicated.


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## Welsh Guy

ALKB said:


> That's why I mentioned before that you might want to look into getting married in the Philippines and apply for her Schengen visa right away in her country of residence, cutting out the travelling in and out of the Schengen zone. If you can pay a ticket for her to come to the UK to get married surely you could do it the other way around?


The reason I want to get married in UK is I want her to join me in Germany while I work long enough to enable us to return to the UK , if she's anyway coming to Europe its far cheaper to fly from UK to Germany. I am not in the Philippines now only her while I am in the UK.



ALKB said:


> I notice that you aren't saying anything about the daughter. Her visa will probably be much more complicated.


*On another thread you said:-*



ALKB said:


> The only potential difficulty I see is the little girl. To get a visa for her, it must be quite clear that your wife has sole custody, etc.


I just took it for granted that* would* be totally clear, and there would be no problems.
Any advice of how to go about this ? I took it for granted it would be the exact same process as my wife ?


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## AngelieFunke

As a Filipina, I suggest you get married in Philippines, come to Germany, and fix all the papers, work and house. She should enroll in a language school, after that process the visa. It's the safe way. Or, enroll in a language school, get a fiancÃ© visa, and marry in germany.

I came here to Germany with my husband under schengen visa, and I got so many problems with it. Coz it is not allowed. I just got lucky with one of the guy in AuslÃ¤nderbehÃ¶rde and granted me an application for residence permit after I take my A1 exam. You can try it like that but as for my experience I wouldn't suggest. Even our lawyer don't know what to do.

Speaking in German is a MUST! They wont issue a visa without the certificate.


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## ALKB

AngelieFunke said:


> As a Filipina, I suggest you get married in Philippines, come to Germany, and fix all the papers, work and house. She should enroll in a language school, after that process the visa. It's the safe way. Or, enroll in a language school, get a fiancÃ© visa, and marry in germany.
> 
> I came here to Germany with my husband under schengen visa, and I got so many problems with it. Coz it is not allowed. I just got lucky with one of the guy in AuslÃ¤nderbehÃ¶rde and granted me an application for residence permit after I take my A1 exam. You can try it like that but as for my experience I wouldn't suggest. Even our lawyer don't know what to do.
> 
> Speaking in German is a MUST! They wont issue a visa without the certificate.


Your case is different because your husband is German.

Spouses of EEA citizens exercising treaty rights in Germany do not need to show German language skills at all.

Same goes for the visa. Spouses of German nationals fall under domestic German immigration law and usually need a visa for family reunion, indeed.


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## Welsh Guy

AngelieFunke said:


> As a Filipina, I suggest you get married in Philippines, come to Germany, and fix all the papers, work and house. She should enroll in a language school, after that process the visa. It's the safe way. Or, enroll in a language school, get a fiancÃ© visa, and marry in germany.
> 
> I came here to Germany with my husband under schengen visa, and I got so many problems with it. Coz it is not allowed. I just got lucky with one of the guy in AuslÃ¤nderbehÃ¶rde and granted me an application for residence permit after I take my A1 exam. You can try it like that but as for my experience I wouldn't suggest. Even our lawyer don't know what to do.
> 
> Speaking in German is a MUST! They wont issue a visa without the certificate.


As a spouse of an EU citizen my(future) wife won't have to provide a language
certificate. However it will be necessary to provide proof, that we are legally married and will live together in Germany.
The language requirement is for Germans bringing in non-EEA spouses so your husband must be German where as I am British and domestic German immigration law does not apply to me and my (future) wife. In your case a Fiancee visa was required as your husband is German.


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## ALKB

Welsh Guy said:


> The reason I want to get married in UK is I want her to join me in Germany while I work long enough to enable us to return to the UK , if she's anyway coming to Europe its far cheaper to fly from UK to Germany. I am not in the Philippines now only her while I am in the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> *On another thread you said:-*
> 
> 
> 
> I just took it for granted that* would* be totally clear, and there would be no problems.
> Any advice of how to go about this ? I took it for granted it would be the exact same process as my wife ?


Well, does she have sole custody?

EU law is quite clear cut when it comes to spouses. As I understand it, your wife's daughter would be a dependent of hers, not your dependent. That's where it gets a bit complicated. To be very honest, I don't know enough about step children in this regard - both regarding a UK visa for the child when the mother applies for a marriage visitor visa and getting then getting her into Germany. Your wife can show that she is your family member by showing a marriage certificate and can automatically travel with you but the girl is your step daughter and cannot show a birth or adoption certificate to prove the same. 

Going directly to Germany from the Philippines after getting married would cut out the UK visa troubles and then potential troubles when applying for a Schengen visa for mother and child in the UK where they are not ordinarily resident. Your wife could insist as she is travelling with her EEA spouse but I am not sure whether they could argue that the child needs to apply from her home country.

Too many ifs and maybes. 

You really need to research this, I have not enough knowledge to give any valid advice regarding her child.

First thing you have to find out is whether the biological father of the child is still somehow in the picture and has any sort of legal rights towards the child.


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## Welsh Guy

ALKB said:


> Well, does she have sole custody?
> 
> EU law is quite clear cut when it comes to spouses. As I understand it, your wife's daughter would be a dependent of hers, not your dependent. That's where it gets a bit complicated. To be very honest, I don't know enough about step children in this regard - both regarding a UK visa for the child when the mother applies for a marriage visitor visa and getting then getting her into Germany. Your wife can show that she is your family member by showing a marriage certificate and can automatically travel with you but the girl is your step daughter and cannot show a birth or adoption certificate to prove the same.
> 
> Going directly to Germany from the Philippines after getting married would cut out the UK visa troubles and then potential troubles when applying for a Schengen visa for mother and child in the UK where they are not ordinarily resident. Your wife could insist as she is travelling with her EEA spouse but I am not sure whether they could argue that the child needs to apply from her home country.
> 
> Too many ifs and maybes.
> 
> You really need to research this, I have not enough knowledge to give any valid advice regarding her child.
> 
> First thing you have to find out is whether the biological father of the child is still somehow in the picture and has any sort of legal rights towards the child.


I understand now, wasn't thinking right. 
No the father did not want to know and even doesn't accept that she's his. There has been no contact since she was born 4 years ago. They separated soon after she was pregnant and he wants no contact or to pay towards her keep. I would glady adopte her as my own. I will try and do some research on the subject.
Anyone else with this type of experience ? Any advice from anyone else would be appreciated


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