# Research visit



## ntonge (Oct 15, 2008)

I've just returned from a research trip to the Costa del sol. I checked out 2 areas, Alhaurin de la Torre and Nerja.
Brrrrr,
 it was much colder than I expected and I was certainly reminded of what good value it is to eat out! Every time I went to pay I thought they'd gotten the bill wrong!
The houses I viewed were mostly great and rents are definitely better value than what you'd get in Ireland. It's so difficult to know where the right place to settle is. 
Thank you so much to Jojo for your invaluable tips and an insight into your life in Spain! Hi Ruby, it was lovely to meet you too!
The school I visited in Cartama was amazing and I know that my 10 and 8 year old would love it! The area of Alhaurin de la Torre has many pluses, it's proximity to the airport is a huge benefit as my OH (thanks for clarifying that 1) needs to travel very frequently.
I also loved the area East of Malaga because it's not as touristy as West Malaga and the lure of the sea is a big draw for me.
So now it's decision, decision, decision time, I'll just have to drag OH out for a visit!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

ntonge said:


> I've just returned from a research trip to the Costa del sol. I checked out 2 areas, Alhaurin de la Torre and Nerja.
> Brrrrr,
> it was much colder than I expected and I was certainly reminded of what good value it is to eat out! Every time I went to pay I thought they'd gotten the bill wrong!
> The houses I viewed were mostly great and rents are definitely better value than what you'd get in Ireland. It's so difficult to know where the right place to settle is.
> ...



It was lovely to meet you Niamh and your son Larry (I'm sure he's your brother - you look far too young to have a 16yo!). I have to apologise that I was unable to devote more time to you, I was in the middle of a very busy weekend and as you could probably see I hadnt got my head screwed on right LOL!! 

I would have liked to perhaps taken you to have a look around, but maybe next time - when we have our OHs with us??? we could all have a meal out etc! Hopefully it'll be warmer next time!

As I said its very much a personal choice as to where you end up living, there are always pros and cons, and which ever you chose, if you're like me you'll wish you'd chosen the other one!!! I'm a keen list writer when trying to make a decision. pros one side and cons the other. Think of things in order of priority, start with needs and end with wants. Also the things you think you're gonna want will probably change when you're here. for example, I wanted to be within walking distance to a shop and bar - which I am. But, I never, ever go to either!!!

Jo x


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Yep, its sure cool here at the moment 
Something some people dont realise when they look into moving here is that the houses aint built like the UK so they need some heating in the winter nights


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> Yep, its sure cool here at the moment
> Something some people dont realise when they look into moving here is that the houses aint built like the UK so they need some heating in the winter nights



I was one of those people! I didnt think about the cold here, neither do the housebuilders! Spanish houses are built for the heat of the summer, not for cold weather. I'm freezing, even though I'm wearing two jumpers, a cardi and I have the log fire alight. I'm really missing my insulated, carpeted, centrally heated UK house and my big thick duvet!

Jo


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

jojo said:


> I was one of those people! I didn't think about the cold here, neither do the housebuilders! Spanish houses are built for the heat of the summer, not for cold weather.


imo many are not REALLY built for the extreme midsummer heat any more either. But many "holiday" homes were never built to be lived in when it is cold.

Our place is insulated (our neighbour saw the house being built) - has double-double glazing - great new radiators and is still near impossible to get up 20ºC in winter without the chimney. In summer we've had things unglue in the heat.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chris(madrid) said:


> imo many are not REALLY built for the extreme midsummer heat any more either. But many "holiday" homes were never built to be lived in when it is cold.
> 
> Our place is insulated (our neighbour saw the house being built) - has double-double glazing - great new radiators and is still near impossible to get up 20ºC in winter without the chimney. In summer we've had things unglue in the heat.



Ours is a stupid house. Its on a Spanish urbanisation as opposed to an expat villa. We have double glazing, central air con that doubles up as fan heaters in all the rooms, but the back and front doors, although thick and heavy have a good 1cm gap under them which howl and blow a gale when its windy and let in the rain. Then you've got all the cool tiles everywhere and canopies over the windows to stop the sun shining in.... I can just about get the sitting room warm, but the rest of the house is freezing.

Jo


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

jojo said:


> Ours is a stupid house. Its on a Spanish urbanisation as opposed to an expat villa. Jo


Sounds as if it was conceived as a Spanish "weekend/holiday home". So it's designed on the basis that you wont want to keep it habitable 24*7*365. 

They'll have secure doors/shutters to deter "guests". They "breathe" well to stop damp build up. 

Have the exact same thing BUT when we bought our place we knew this. Just did not expect GAS prices to soar as fast. I've fitted draught guards to the outer doors like yours Jo. These are available as self adhesive strips and are worth doing - it wont affect rental conditions. The rear tbh we enclosed with a porch. 

But summer heat is what annoys me more in our place. With one or two small things it'd be MUCH cooler - but now near impossible to do without a MAJOR modification.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

You guys ain't seen brutal till you've lived here! Strav will tell you! He can't wait to come back!

And apart from the temperatures....I'm really struggling today.

Cos yesterday in complete panic I jumped a wall to get away from a charging boar and ended up landing on my head on concrete in the middle of a pig pen.....in total darkness....with the mad boar still running wild around me.

Went home covered in ****e and bleeding from the head, hands, and legs.

Today it feels like I been in a train wreck.


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## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

jojo said:


> I can just about get the sitting room warm, but the rest of the house is freezing.
> 
> Jo



As Chris mentioned before, its down to what the houses were built for in the first place. We have met numerous families who have purchased a new property in a touristy place, only to find that come the winter its virtually impossible to keep warm and in the summer, they are too hot.

However, if you were to buy or rent a NEW ish property in an non-touristy place, then the property itself is built to a higher standard and using better quality materials, thus allowing for all-year round living and lower fuel bills


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SunnySpain said:


> However, if you were to buy or rent a NEW ish property in an non-touristy place, then the property itself is built to a higher standard and using better quality materials, thus allowing for all-year round living and lower fuel bills



........accept mine!! its 3 years old and on a Spanish urbanisation in a non-touristy village!

On a lighter note, the wearher forecast is predicting a warm spell at the end of the week, back to 21c!!??

Jo


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

XTreme said:


> You guys ain't seen brutal till you've lived here! Strav will tell you! He can't wait to come back!
> 
> And apart from the temperatures....I'm really struggling today.
> 
> ...


Please please tell me your missus was there and got a photograph of it.
I imagine you and the donkey must be freezing your bits off in deepest Huescar


Our place was built as a holiday home. We now have it over two floors, but in the winter its too expensive to heat both floors so we live upstairs. In the summer its cooler downstairs cos its built into the side of a mountain, so we move down there where we have everything but a kitchen.

We stick the warm air aorcon in the morning to warm up, then oil radiators which aint cheap, and about 5 pm we resort to the log fire


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> Please please tell me your missus was there and got a photograph of it.
> I imagine you and the donkey must be freezing your bits off in deepest Huescar


She was there Jon.....in with the boar. But the boar likes her so she was OK. It was just me and my eldest boy who got battered.

The damn thing even smashed out the girders from corrugated railings with it's head. You wouldn't believe the strength on those things.

As for the temperature, don't know when it was above freezing last. The only warm place is Dylan's cave....but as you know, it's not exactly the safest place to be!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

XTreme said:


> She was there Jon.....in with the boar. But the boar likes her so she was OK. It was just me and my eldest boy who got battered.
> 
> The damn thing even smashed out the girders from corrugated railings with it's head. You wouldn't believe the strength on those things.
> 
> As for the temperature, don't know when it was above freezing last. The only warm place is Dylan's cave....but as you know, it's not exactly the safest place to be!



Well .... when it snows, post up some pics .... I remember the last ones


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Stravinsky said:


> Well .... when it snows, post up some pics .... I remember the last ones


The surrounding mountains are all covered Jon....and we have had a bit in the town already!

Nothing compared to January last year though....yet!


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

jojo said:


> ........accept mine!! its 3 years old and on a Spanish urbanisation in a non-touristy village! Jo


Many of your SPANISH neighbours there ALL YEAR?. 

Where we are WAS a 100% SPANISH SUMMER/HOLIDAY-WEEKEND ESTATE. This was and still to some extent is common in Spain. They are often NOT where "tourists" congregate as the ground price is lower then. 

Also many are bought as future retirement homes - and my experience of Spaniards is they want to be surrounded by other Spaniards and live the Spanish way in their retirement. I can see their point. I'd love to have my parents here with me now, but fully understand that at 80 years old, they prefer being surrounded by their friends etc in an environment they understand and know how to manage. 

Since we've been in here (10 years) - we've seen the demographic status of our estate change - more and more it's truly residential, in fact I believe it's now 95% or so - but when we came we were the ONLY house on our road occupied in winter. The new houses built as residential cope better. One or two non-Spaniards but those foreigners here are integrated - most are mixed marriages and their kids are often as not more comfortable in Spanish than their "mother" tongue. 

Often the wife and kids were huddled off and the guy stayed on in the City working (maybe with a mistress). We have friends living in the Centre of Valencia who had such a place about 15kms down the coast from them. Many of our friends/family here have a weekend/holiday flat/home somewhere on the coast - or in a village somewhere. Seldom where "tourists go". 

As they were not intended for full time use - they're often really designed to be easier to maintain/clean - so tiles and flat surfaces. Most Spanish ladies I know will still pick up a broom in preference to a vacuum cleaner - try sweeping plush carpets! - Our vacuum gets used by the Romanian lady who comes once a week - she cant understand the broom thing either.

Also are designed around "Spanish" summer timing. i.e. the house is kept DARK in the afternoon for Siestas etc - doors windows kept shuttered up to keep the heat OUT. Opening up at night to let the cool in. 

Ah! the things one has to know when moving eh!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chris(madrid) said:


> Many of your SPANISH neighbours there ALL YEAR?.
> 
> Where we are WAS a 100% SPANISH SUMMER/HOLIDAY-WEEKEND ESTATE. This was and still to some extent is common in Spain. They are often NOT where "tourists" congregate as the ground price is lower then.............



No, its a normal day to day living estate. next door is a Spanish family with a disabled husband, wife and two kids, opposite, is a young couple, the husband runs the local "todo" shop and up the road a bit is the the family that run the kiosko and a couple of other families further up who come and go all day.

Actually Chris, you maybe able to explain something - I'm not being snobby, just curious. How do a young couple who seem to only run the local village shop (very small and insignificant) own and afford such a big house? They both appear to be in their 20s - very nice, but their house is very large and trendy. Its the same with the family that own the kiosko, big house, 3+ kids, and it seems living off the procedes of a very small business. As wages seem low here anyway and house prices high.......

Just something I've often wondered


Jo


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

jojo said:


> Actually Chris, you maybe able to explain something - I'm not being snobby, just curious. How do a young couple who seem to only run the local village shop (very small and insignificant) own and afford such a big house? They both appear to be in their 20s - very nice, but their house is very large and trendy. Its the same with the family that own the kiosko, big house, 3+ kids, and it seems living off the procedes of a very small business. As wages seem low here anyway and house prices high.......


If they're locals - well at a guess they either had the land before and/or inherited something that covered the initial costs - Or they're on a HUGE mortgage. Would not surprise me if it's somehow merged into the business either

The land is key - our house cost us 28million Ptas - on the declaration of value - 18 was construction value and 10 land value - but the land had been bought years before for 19,000 Ptas. Land value of our plot is now beyond reason imo. It tripled in 3-4 months - grown since a bit too but those first few months were really amazing. Actually I don't want to know how much it's worth now - I might faint.

My neighbours have a larger house than us - they're in their early 30's - both work but not in jobs that good. But they'd had the land ages before they started building (since mid 90's) - had a caravan on it (for bonking I was told). Also it's much better finished in many respects but the girls dad was a builder then and the guy and his dad are VERY DIY adept. So much of it they've done and could do it bit by bit. 

I find a lot of small business owners simply buy property/land to hide earnings too. Where my wife works the policeman on the door, most days, owns about 6 bars and two blocks of flats in the POSH bit of Madrid. Just kept buying with his "spare" cash.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Mistresses? Bonking in Caravans? When's the best time for me to go?


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## RVSINUK (Dec 4, 2008)

SunnySpain said:


> . . . However, if you were to buy or rent a NEW ish property in an non-touristy place, then the property itself is built to a higher standard and using better quality materials, thus allowing for all-year round living and lower fuel bills . . .


To a degree that's true, though being nearer the Med is definitely warmer in the winter than inland.

Problem is, most of the med is 'touristy'.

We live in a 'city house' in the old quarter of Antequera, which is really well built. 

For the most part it's not bad, but it was down to 1-2 degrees C the other day, and without the butano heaters, plus the odd oil filled jobbies, it would be un-comfortable.

I was looking at these Econo-heat panels in Eroski the other day - 1 at 260 watts and 1 at 400 watts for 69 and 79 euros respectively, does anyone know about them or used them?.

At this rate of consumption, I reckon 4-6 would heat most houses (if they work), for very little cost, and as such could be left on more or less all day via time switches.

I.E five would use 2 kWh or 2 units of Seviliana's best per hour.

10 hours a day or 20 units at say 15c a unit is 3 euros a day for say 3 months a year = 275 euros. I could live with that, as I suspect most people could.

Anyone have information on whether they work? - (or is it a case of "if it seems too good to be true ... etc., etc.)


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

RVSINUK said:


> I was looking at these Econo-heat panels in Eroski the other day - 1 at 260 watts and 1 at 400 watts for 69 and 79 euros respectively, does anyone know about them or used them?.


Was looking at them the other day - BUT they are most certainly SMALL SPACE heaters. 450-500W is enough to heat about 10Cubic metres (i.e a bathroom). A 80Cm lounge - no chance.

A person puts out about a Kilowatt - would two folk running about keep the house warm? - not in mine. A town house keeps warm if neighbours heat as well. Best thing for an old town house is probably a real BRASERO. In new houses the best thing is underfloor heating.


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## RVSINUK (Dec 4, 2008)

> best thing is underfloor heating.


Nuclear reaction? - that should generate a few Kw! -


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