# Can't move back to the UK!! Spouse visa income requirement!



## rpsharman (Nov 3, 2013)

Hello,

Hoping to get some advice or support here.

I am a British citizen who has been living in the US since I was 13. I am now 44.

My wife and I decided to move to the UK to be closer to my family. We have 2 children, both British passport holders.

We are now faced, however, with not being able to get my wife a spouse visa. I do not have a "job" to go to in the UK. I work in the movie/TV business, and am technically self employed, although I do get some payroll income. I intend to work in the same industry in the UK. My typical income is significantly above the minimum requirements, but since I do not have a "guarantee of employment", and no such thing exists in this business, I can't meet the financial requirement in the UK. An I don't have £65k sitting in the bank to meet the saving requirement. Even if I were to try to save that, it needs to be sitting in my account for 6 months. We plan to move in June.

How is it that if I were French or German, I could easily relocate to the UK and bring my non-EU wife in under a EEA permit for FREE. But as UK citizen, I can't move to the UK and bring in my wife of 17 years! Even if I were allowed, the visa is £851!! 

Anyway - what do you suggest? I have thought of having her travel in as a visitor, which gives her 6 months (can't work - which is ok for now), but if we all show up together with one way plane tickets, she could be denied entrance if they don't believe she will go back. It'll be clear we are moving there. And even if I do get a job and accumulate enough savings, she'll have to fly back to the US to apply for a spouse visa, and stay here until the application is complete and then buy a ticket to return.

This all seems pretty crazy.

Robert


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## Water Dragon (Jun 28, 2011)

rpsharman said:


> Hello,
> 
> Hoping to get some advice or support here.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, there is no flexibility in the financial requirement. If you were to come and obtain work for 6 months, you could combine your income with savings to offset your shortage - it wouldn't necessarily amount to the 65K. Your wife would have to remain in the US until she could obtain her visa.

Under NO circumstances should she travel with you and just appear at the border. With no strong ties to return to the US, and especially if, as you stated, she flies on a one way ticket. She would almost be guaranteed denial to enter the UK, be sent back immediately, and the refusal record would cause you extra problems with any future visa applications.

I am not familiar with any other options for you, I'm sorry to say. Others will advise you as well, if they have any suggestions.

Wish there was some other way.


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## BronwynBean (Nov 20, 2012)

Have you perhaps thought of coming in via another EU country using the freedom of movement act? 
It would require you to work for 6 months I think it is and then you can bring her in to the UK.....

Others will beagle to advise better on this route.


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## rpsharman (Nov 3, 2013)

Water Dragon said:


> Unfortunately, there is no flexibility in the financial requirement. If you were to come and obtain work for 6 months, you could combine your income with savings to offset your shortage - it wouldn't necessarily amount to the 65K. Your wife would have to remain in the US until she could obtain her visa.
> 
> Under NO circumstances should she travel with you and just appear at the border. With no strong ties to return to the US, and especially if, as you stated, she flies on a one way ticket. She would almost be guaranteed denial to enter the UK, be sent back immediately, and the refusal record would cause you extra problems with any future visa applications.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your fast response. We have an adult daughter in the US, and my wife has family here, so perhaps she could apply for a family visitor visa? The problem is that she could, as you say, be denied entry even if she were to have a return plane ticket. The border agent may simply not believe she intends to return to the US, and the visa implies she will come and go, which won't be the case. She has no work history here either.

It might be my only option is to have me move in January and attempt to work enough over 6 months to meet the financial requirements. Then she can apply and bring the children when the visa is approved.

I know why the government imposed these requirements, but it seems in their attempt to "keep out the poor", they are also keeping out average citizens who don't fit the mold of traditional income sources.


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## rpsharman (Nov 3, 2013)

BronwynBean said:


> Have you perhaps thought of coming in via another EU country using the freedom of movement act?
> It would require you to work for 6 months I think it is and then you can bring her in to the UK.....
> 
> Others will beagle to advise better on this route.


From my research, as a UK citizen moving back to the UK, regardless of whether it's via another EU country, my wife would require a spouse visa.

If I am to work 6 months anywhere, away from my wife and children I might add, it might as well be in the UK where I have other family and far greater opportunities for employment in my industry.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

rpsharman I do understand what you are going through! The EU thingy is a bug bear of mine too but an EU law not a UK one so they have to abide. You could try taking the Surinda Singh route by exercising your treaty rights in another EU country which is exactly what they are doing in UK.

My son is in his 3rd month of collecting pay slips and bank statements so he can apply for a spouse visa for his wife. Whist doing this they have been apart for 6 months and they have a toddler so he is missing out on his development (I find this very distressing)

Anyhow like I say, you could try the Surinda Singh route as it so much easier if you can get work in another EU country for 3 months............good luck


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

rpsharman said:


> From my research, as a UK citizen moving back to the UK, regardless of whether it's via another EU country, my wife would require a spouse visa.
> 
> If I am to work 6 months anywhere, away from my wife and children I might add, it might as well be in the UK where I have other family and far greater opportunities for employment in my industry.


It's only 3 months and you don't have to meet the financial requirement....


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## BronwynBean (Nov 20, 2012)

Ok. Well I was referring to the Surinder Singh Route, its exercising your treaty rights. Was just an option that popped into mind in your case. And apologies it's only 3 months not 6 and your wife would be able to join you in the EU country. Google it perhaps and do some research before reaching any hard cast conclusion. It was one of the options we would have used should we have not received our spousal visa. Luckily though my partner was able to secure a job.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

rpsharman said:


> From my research, as a UK citizen moving back to the UK, regardless of whether it's via another EU country, my wife would require a spouse visa.
> 
> If I am to work 6 months anywhere, away from my wife and children I might add, it might as well be in the UK where I have other family and far greater opportunities for employment in my industry.


To go the Surinder Singh route, your wife would have to move with you to an EU country and you would have to live and work there. Your would have to find a job with a contract, not just bagging groceries. There is no set time that you would have to work but 3 - 6 months seems to be acceptable. Then your wife would apply for an EEA Family permit to join you in the UK. I think it's good for 6 months and then she applies for a further resident card.


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## rpsharman (Nov 3, 2013)

We have 2 school-aged children. So living all together in another European country would be unacceptable.

I know there is some exception clause whereas we can show that my wife being in the US away from her British children causes undue stress to the British children.

My wife has been a stay-home mom for my children's entire lives. I work unusual hours, and may need to spend weeks away from home. If I were to move to the UK with my children, which I am entitled to do, then petition that they require the care of their mom, and that they are being unfairly subjected to emotional distress by not being able to have their mom live with them, I should be able to be given an exception to the financial requirements.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

I doubt the UKBA would view it quite the same way!

As your children have dual citizenship they would argue that they could stay in America with their mother whilst your wife applies for a spouse visa.....


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

rpsharman said:


> We have 2 school-aged children. So living all together in another European country would be unacceptable.
> 
> I know there is some exception clause whereas we can show that my wife being in the US away from her British children causes undue stress to the British children.
> 
> My wife has been a stay-home mom for my children's entire lives. I work unusual hours, and may need to spend weeks away from home. If I were to move to the UK with my children, which I am entitled to do, then petition that they require the care of their mom, and that they are being unfairly subjected to emotional distress by not being able to have their mom live with them, I should be able to be given an exception to the financial requirements.


Don't hold your breath.

Additionally, as you have dual citizenship as well there is nothing preventing you from living in the US with your wife.


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## BronwynBean (Nov 20, 2012)

If you have any disabilities and would be on any carers allowance, you would also then bypass the financial requirement, once in the UK that is. Your complaint is the same right across the board of Brits trying to move back to the UK with their families. Baring the route mentioned you would need to come here alone then bring your wife in. Do the same rules apply using the Surinder Singh Route if he were to use Ireland as his place of entry?


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## rpsharman (Nov 3, 2013)

From what I gather, I could go to another EU country and work for 3 months, then I could bring my wife and children there and go into England together under Surinder Singh Route. But I'd have to show steady employment, which in my business isn't easy. I could do several different projects over 3 months.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

Yes you would have to have a contract but the amount you earn is not important...


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## BronwynBean (Nov 20, 2012)

Ie, you could be employed as a bartender etc as long as you have a contract.


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## Water Dragon (Jun 28, 2011)

rpsharman said:


> From what I gather, I could go to another EU country and work for 3 months, then I could bring my wife and children there and go into England together under Surinder Singh Route. But I'd have to show steady employment, which in my business isn't easy. I could do several different projects over 3 months.


Have you considered the option of moving your wife and children with you to the EU country and having your wife homeschool them for the 3-6 months you would need to be there? At least it would keep the family together until such time as you all could move back to the UK.


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## rpsharman (Nov 3, 2013)

Education is difficult because the children are teens. Our 15-year-old will be going into Y11, which is tough already. Our son Y9.

Does it matter what the accommodations are? What if my father says we'll live in his house? It is ample in size to house our family under the guidelines. Does that play into the financial requirement?

What if a start a business and have my business contract to pay me £19000/year (and sack me once the visa is approves)? Or maybe I can have a relative hire me for their business (using my money to pay me)? I know I would be throwing away the income tax for those months, but if that works out to be about £3000, it'd be way cheaper than plane tickets and immigration lawyers.


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## Hertsfem (Jun 19, 2013)

If you father is in the uk and there is no overcrowding then yes you can stay there initially, however I cannot answer the rest of your questions as it seems you are clutching at straws here. the UKBA have put stops in place long time back for some of your ideas. Try reading the self employment guidelines on their website...


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## Water Dragon (Jun 28, 2011)

rpsharman said:


> Education is difficult because the children are teens. Our 15-year-old will be going into Y11, which is tough already. Our son Y9.
> 
> Does it matter what the accommodations are? What if my father says we'll live in his house? It is ample in size to house our family under the guidelines. Does that play into the financial requirement?
> 
> What if a start a business and have my business contract to pay me £19000/year (and sack me once the visa is approves)? Or maybe I can have a relative hire me for their business (using my money to pay me)? I know I would be throwing away the income tax for those months, but if that works out to be about £3000, it'd be way cheaper than plane tickets and immigration lawyers.


Accommodation is a totally separate requirement and has no impact on the financial part. Staying with your father temporarily is fine for meeting the accommodation part, with the proper documentation.

You would need to read the requirements for the entrepreneur visa on the UKBA website but I believe it requires MUCH more money than the 62K in savings. A relative couldn't hire you and sponsor your visa unless they can prove there is no one in the UK with the same skills.

We understand how frustrating and distressing this is, but listen to the advice of the mods and experienced expats. They know all the options that could feasibly work. If you try any dishonest means and are caught, it could mean a 10 year ban from the UK.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

rpsharman said:


> From what I gather, I could go to another EU country and work for 3 months, then I could bring my wife and children there and go into England together under Surinder Singh Route. But I'd have to show steady employment, which in my business isn't easy. I could do several different projects over 3 months.


Not quite. It's not just about you working in another EU country. That's just one part of the equation. Your wife has to be living with you for the time that you are working in another EU country.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Water Dragon said:


> Accommodation is a totally separate requirement and has no impact on the financial part. Staying with your father temporarily is fine for meeting the accommodation part, with the proper documentation.
> 
> You would need to read the requirements for the entrepreneur visa on the UKBA website but I believe it requires MUCH more money than the 62K in savings. A relative couldn't hire you and sponsor your visa unless they can prove there is no one in the UK with the same skills.
> 
> We understand how frustrating and distressing this is, but listen to the advice of the mods and experienced expats. They know all the options that could feasibly work. If you try any dishonest means and are caught, it could mean a 10 year ban from the UK.


He's British. He doesn't need a visa.


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## rpsharman (Nov 3, 2013)

Water Dragon said:


> A relative couldn't hire you and sponsor your visa unless they can prove there is no one in the UK with the same skills.


My wife is the one requiring sponsorship. I am the UK citizen requiring employment upon my return to the UK in order to bring her over on a spouse visa. All I need to do is find a job promising to pay £18,600/year, starting within three months of our arrival, and show evidence of ample income over the last 12 months in the US. I have ample income in the US, but I just don't have £62.5k in cash hanging around. I may have that much by the time we want to move, but it won't have been in an account untouched for 6 months.

I am not looking to do anything illegal. I am reading the letter of the law. I have many family members with businesses in the UK, including my father. Why could not any of them agree to employ me upon our arrival? Is there ANYTHING in the hundreds of pages which specifies the source of employment cannot be a relative? And what happens if you get a promise of employment, are brought onto the job, they laid off for reasons unforeseen (business fails, downsizes employees, etc.)

As I wrote, I don't want to violate immigration law, but surely there are ways to follow the rules AND circumvent this ridiculous law.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

> What if a start a business and have my business contract to pay me £19000/year (and sack me once the visa is approves)? Or maybe I can have a relative hire me for their business (using my money to pay me)? I know I would be throwing away the income tax for those months, but if that works out to be about £3000, it'd be way cheaper than plane tickets and immigration lawyers.


If you're self-employed or the director of a specified limited country you'll need 1 year of accounts and financial information. You need a legitimate job from a legitimate employer. Deceit could result in your wife being banned from the UK.


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## rpsharman (Nov 3, 2013)

I'm reading 

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/news/soi-fam-mig.pdf

Page 46 - Paragraph 174b - which reads... 

_*174b. Job offer in the UK (returning sponsor): 

• Letter from the employer confirming the job offer and salary or enclosing a signed 
contract of employment, to commence within three months of the sponsor’s return to 
the UK. *_

And also... Page 41 - paragraph 147 - which reads...

_*Where the sponsor is returning with the applicant to the UK to work 

147. In Category B, where the sponsor is returning with the applicant to the UK to work, 
the sponsor does not have to be in employment at the point of application. 

148. The couple returning to the UK must have received in the 12 months prior to the 
application the level of income required to meet the financial requirement applicable to it, 
based on: 

• The gross salaried income overseas of the sponsor; 

• The gross amount of any specified non-employment income received by the 
sponsor, the applicant or both jointly; and/or 

• The gross amount of any State (UK or foreign) or private pension received by the 
sponsor or the applicant. 

149. In addition, the sponsor must have confirmed salaried employment to return to in the 
UK (starting within three months of their return). This must have an annual starting 
salary sufficient to meet the financial requirement applicable to the application, alone or 
in combination with any or all of the items in the paragraph 142. *_

Again - What I see is that they are requiring ample income of the sponsor (me) prior to returning to the UK, which I have. AND promise of employment within 3 months of my return at a salary of $18600/year (or less if I can make up the shortfall with savings), which I could easily obtain. My family has legitimate businesses, which I could legitimately work for. A promise of employment is exactly that. A promise. But if my circumstances change (I get a better job at a higher salary), I am under no obligation to start that job. If need be, I could start the job or perform the jobs simultaneously to meet the obligation of the law.

What am I missing?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

rpsharman said:


> I'm reading
> 
> http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/news/soi-fam-mig.pdf
> 
> ...


It's not a "promise". You have to have a contract with a job starting within 3 month's of your return.


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## rpsharman (Nov 3, 2013)

nyclon said:


> It's not a "promise". You have to have a contract with a job starting within 3 month's of your return.


Actually, read exactly what it reads...

_*174b. Job offer in the UK (returning sponsor): 

• Letter from the employer confirming the job offer and salary or enclosing a signed 
contract of employment, to commence within three months of the sponsor’s return to 
the UK. 
*_

A job "offer" - the requirement being a letter from the employer confirming the job offer and salary _*OR*_ a signed contract of employment.

A job offer is not a contract, and the employer would be under no obligation to actually employ me if circumstances changed (although if things went awry, there's a risk of being accused of fraud). And I am not obligated to start that job if something better comes along.

I imagine I'd have to consult an attorney to be sure I am not getting into cloudy waters here, but it seems than in my case, all I need is a job offer for an amount to complement my savings shortfall, and I'm all set.

It would be on the government to prove the offer was not genuine, if at some point my case were reviewed for any reason.

If the offer is "legitimate", meaning there is a job and there is a company and there is the money to pay me, then how could this be anything but legal?

Thoughts?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Your looking at old information. This is what you should be looking at:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/s...DIs/chp8-annex/section-FM-1.7.pdf?view=Binary


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## rpsharman (Nov 3, 2013)

nyclon said:


> Your looking at old information. This is what you should be looking at:
> 
> http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/s...DIs/chp8-annex/section-FM-1.7.pdf?view=Binary


Thanks...

Still finding this in section 5.2.1 on page 19

*"The applicant's partner must have a confirmed offer of salaried or non-salaried employment in the UK, starting within 3 months of their return."*

Again, giving this is the ONLY obstacle for me, can I not obtain a confirmed offer of employment, but subsequently not actually start that job because another job comes along. Clearly if I don't start this job, or get another, and subsequently require government assistance, or can't show evidence of employment at the time the next visa is required, I risk my wife being deported. But honestly, does the UKBA have the kind of manpower required to investigate middle class applicants requiring no government assistance?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You can receive a job offer from a business run by your family or relative, provided the right paperwork is supplied: offer on company stationery signed by business owner or senior employee, starting within 3 months of your proposed return and paying at least £18,600 gross. If the pay is less, you can make up the difference through savings, using the formula under Category D.



> Again, giving this is the ONLY obstacle for me, can I not obtain a confirmed offer of employment, but subsequently not actually start that job because another job comes along. Clearly if I don't start this job, or get another, and subsequently require government assistance, or can't show evidence of employment at the time the next visa is required, I risk my wife being deported. But honestly, does the UKBA have the kind of manpower required to investigate middle class applicants requiring no government assistance?


While you don't have to accept the job offer and start work after the visa is issued, you will have to meet a similar rule 2.5 years down the line when the visa has to be renewed. What you do in the meantime is up to you, but Home Office does reserve the right to investigate whether your wife is meeting the conditions of her visa. It can follow a tip-off, or a consequence of coming under scrutiny by the police or another government department on an issue unconnected with immigration and Home Office is informed.


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## rpsharman (Nov 3, 2013)

Bingo!!

So I simply get a job offer (from family or not) for the amount required to meet the obligation.

Seems simple enough. I hope. I have a great number of colleagues and family in the UK, and I am confident I can get a legitimate offer for employment.

I still plan to check with an attorney, because I'd hate for a friend or family member to get in trouble, but it seems this is a legal avenue for someone with legitimate employment and assets in another country looking to return to the UK.

Thanks


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I think the only thing you need to pay close attention to is, under Cat B, having earned £18,600 in the past 12 months in US. The income must be one of or a combination of allowed income sources as specified, and you need to supply similar evidence as needed for UK income, such as payslips, bank statement etc. I suggest you show the relevant sections of FM1.7 to your US accountant to see how you can gather the evidence together.
The permitted sources are:



> The gross amount of salaried or non-salaried employment income overseas of the applicant's partner;
> The gross amount of any specified non-employment income received by the applicant's partner, the applicant or both jointly, provided they continue to own the relevant asset (e.g. property, interest from shares) at the date of application; and/or
> The gross amount of any State (UK or foreign) or private pension received by the applicant's partner or the applicant.


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## rpsharman (Nov 3, 2013)

I do hope the income over the last two years is sourced correctly. The sum is quite a bit more than the required amount, so even some income were excluded, I think I would be ok.

I receive some income from equipment rental and some from salary, although the salary is spread around several "employers" within the film industry. Each on their own would be a sufficient sum two-fold.

I am hoping that my current employment will not be an obstacle. That's something I just can't control.


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## Jowels (Jan 18, 2014)

Could you let me know how your visa application went? 

I'm in exactly the same position, and am thinking about obtaining a job offer from a relative in the UK. The offer will be legit, but there's every chance I'll be able to find alternative employment before the job starts.


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## Jowels (Jan 18, 2014)

Also, did you speak with an attorney to find out if there was anyway your relative could get into trouble?

I'm assuming there's not, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.


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## Lousapphire (Mar 20, 2014)

rpsharman said:


> Thank you so much for your fast response. We have an adult daughter in the US, and my wife has family here, so perhaps she could apply for a family visitor visa? The problem is that she could, as you say, be denied entry even if she were to have a return plane ticket. The border agent may simply not believe she intends to return to the US, and the visa implies she will come and go, which won't be the case. She has no work history here either.
> 
> It might be my only option is to have me move in January and attempt to work enough over 6 months to meet the financial requirements. Then she can apply and bring the children when the visa is approved.
> 
> I know why the government imposed these requirements, but it seems in their attempt to "keep out the poor", they are also keeping out average citizens who don't fit the mold of traditional income sources.


i thought 18600k in the bank (as asavings) also coounted?so you can move straight away, all together, otherwise it's family separation?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Lousapphire said:


> i thought 18600k in the bank (as asavings) also coounted?so you can move straight away, all together, otherwise it's family separation?


No. If you are going to rely solely on savings you will need £62,500.


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## Lousapphire (Mar 20, 2014)

nyclon said:


> No. If you are going to rely solely on savings you will need £62,500.


so you actually need to earn 18600k a year in the country you are at at the moment to be able to go back home?


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## Lousapphire (Mar 20, 2014)

Lousapphire said:


> so you actually need to earn 18600k a year in the country you are at at the moment to be able to go back home?


since when has this requirement kicked in then? a friend of our brought jis Japanese wife over last summer... They had been married for 4 years before then, got married in Japan. When they sarted their application process, he had around 3500quid in is bank account and she had around twenty grand, so they just got a bank statement from their bank and it counted as a minimum income treshold requirement. Mind you, the major amount of money was on her bank account, not HIS...


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Couldnt have been last summer or you dont know the full details of their application. There are a couple of ways to meet the financial requirement but yes one is earning £18600 in the year plus a job offer in the UK.


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## Lousapphire (Mar 20, 2014)

_shel said:


> Couldnt have been last summer or you dont know the full details of their application. There are a couple of ways to meet the financial requirement but yes one is earning £18600 in the year plus a job offer in the UK.


if i have that much on my account, would it count? or does it have to be my husbands money?


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## Whatshouldwedo (Sep 29, 2013)

The sponsor, that is the UK citizen, has to be earning £18600 a year for at least six months and, if not already in the UK needs to have a job lined up earning that amount within three months of relocating to UK. Otherwise if either the sponsor or applicant or both have savings of £62500, application can be made under the savings category.


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