# Article 10 residence card living in uk



## Linabenben (Dec 31, 2015)

I am wondering with article 10residence card, (me and my husband living in ireland excercising treaty rights, I am non eu ) we plan to go to live in uk after I got my 5years article 10 residence card ,my question r
1 can I go to uk immediately after I got my residence card ?if so , how long can I stay ?can I work there ?
2do I stikl need to apply for spousr visa in order to stay permanently?
Thanks guys


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, you can use your Irish residence card to enter UK. While you have de facto right to work as family member of EU citizen, you have no documentary evidence, so apply for residence card as soon as your partner has started exercising EU treaty right such as working.


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## Linabenben (Dec 31, 2015)

Joppa said:


> Yes, you can use your Irish residence card to enter UK. While you have de facto right to work as family member of EU citizen, you have no documentary evidence, so apply for residence card as soon as your partner has started exercising EU treaty right such as working.


 thanks Joppa ,my husband is british ,and we just submitted my application 1 month ago ,should be processed in 14weeks accordin to the immigration office , 
So after I got the 5 years residence card in ireland , we can go to uk immediately?,some lawyer said we need to wait another 3 months before goin to uk , but no such info on uk gov websites ,
Cuz my irish 5 years residence card only valid for 5 years , do I still need to apply for uk spouse visa to stay after 5 years?any other way I can stay in uk for good ?
Thanks so much


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

If he is British, you can only live in UK under the Surinder Singh provision, or you have to get spouse visa under UK immigration rules. You need to apply for EEA family permit, showing your husband has been exercising economic treaty right through work, and has moved the centre of life to Ireland. After getting the family permit, you enter UK together and you can then apply for residence card valid 5 years.


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## plexel (Jan 9, 2016)

*EU Freedom of Movement Treaty*

Yes, you can go immediately you get your Article 10 card from Ireland.

Under Article 5 of the EU Directive 2004/38/EC Freedom of Movement Treaty you can enter the UK with any Article 10 Residence Card and your passport, even without your husband.

Also, your passport cannot be stamped on entry or exit.

In the Dec 2014 McCathy EU Court ruling, the UK was clearly told that for Article 10 card holders the UK cannot also ask for an EEA Family Permit for entry to the UK. They were doing that for about 7 years incorrectly.

Because your British husband has lived in Ireland then Article 3 of the Treaty allows the Treaty to apply to him and you. The Surinder Singh case is an example of this.

So together with your husband, by the Treaty Article 6 you have the right of residence in the UK unconditionally for up to 3 months but then you should apply for a UK Article 10 Residence Card because you are changing your country of residence. The card may take up to 6 months but a certificate of application must be issued immediately.

Even though it is an Article 3 right I believe your card application will have to be done under the Surinder Singh case. There should be little or no cost. 

The other option is to go via the UK immigration system and obtain "Leave to Remain" and later "Indefinite Leave to Remain" but this is very expensive. Around 1000 UK pounds for the latter.

Even if you don't apply for a UK Article 10 Card you can only be fined for not having the application certificate if you stay more than 3 months. In Malta the fine is around 300 euros but I have never heard of one being made.

By Article 25 an Article 10 Residence Card cannot be required as a precondition for an administrative process, such as a job application. Other evidence should be used.


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## miss lara (Jan 15, 2014)

*Family Permit or Article 10*

Good day, I would like to ask further as regardsthe Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC, 

I am non-EU with an Italian document, "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen” where *Dependant Family Members *( I am over 21 years) is clearly written on it. 

I wrote the UK visa section, stating if it was necessary for a visa since we have (my dad is an EU citizen living in the UK, while we are going on a visit) the Residence card of a family member.
I was told and I quote, 

"Unless your residence card was issued under Article 10 of Directive
2004/38/EC (the ‘Free Movement Directive’), you will need to apply for
a visa"

Your reply will be greatly appreciated.
Regards.


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## plexel (Jan 9, 2016)

plexel said:


> even without your husband.


Apologies I was wrong. You will need to go with your husband or be joining him in the UK. The Treaty is only applicable in those cases by Article 3.1.


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## plexel (Jan 9, 2016)

*Article 10 card*



miss lara said:


> Good day, I would like to ask further as regardsthe Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC,
> 
> I am non-EU with an Italian document, "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen” where *Dependant Family Members *( I am over 21 years) is clearly written on it.
> 
> ...


I presume your question is whether your card is an Article 10 card. It certainly appears to be so since it has the correct wording "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" which Article 10 cards must contain.

So I think you can enter with the card and no visa.

Better take your birth certificate along too and evidence that your Dad is in the UK, and has a right of residence in the UK.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Is your spouse/partner an Italian citizen? Then unless you entered Italy through Surinder Singh provision, as described above, your document appears to be residence permit issued under the Italian domestic legislation, and therefore not Article 10 residence card which alones allows you entry into UK without visa or EEA family permit.


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## miss lara (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks for the reply so far.My dad is the Italian citizen while my Italian document has,"Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" written on it.Infact, I just renewed it after my permanent stay permit was misplaced.I was given that as a family member of an Italian citizen.


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## miss lara (Jan 15, 2014)

Joppa said:


> Is your spouse/partner an Italian citizen? Then unless you entered Italy through Surinder Singh provision, as described above, your document appears to be residence permit issued under the Italian domestic legislation, and therefore not Article 10 residence card which alones allows you entry into UK without visa or EEA family permit.



Thanks for the reply so far.My dad is the Italian citizen while my Italian document has,"Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" written on it.
Infact, I just renewed it after my permanent stay permit was misplaced.I was given that as a family member of an Italian citizen. I have been living here since 2002 and I am processing my citizenship, hopefully it will be ready before summer.

I am actually making this findings because of my younger sister who is not processing nor has the citizenship yet but has same Italian documents has I do.She is studying in the Uni(she's over 21,so, she's considered a dependent of an EU citizen,right?)

My question is, if with this said document( Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC ) she can travel to the UK without the EEA family visa, how will the process be?
Thank you all.
Warm Regards


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Your sister's residence permit is not Article 10 residence card, so she will require EEA family permit (when travelling with her dad) or standard visit visa if she is going alone. 

Did you and your sister live in another EEA country (not Italy) and then you all move to Italy? Then you indeed have Article 10 residence card under the Surinder Singh provision.


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## miss lara (Jan 15, 2014)

Now I am a bit confused.We haven't lived in any other EU country before coming to Italy.We have lived here since 2002 (my sister and I ).

Our documents though has the "permanent residence card for EU family members", which was not on our previous stay permits (carta di soggiorno illimitata ).So, what is the difference with what we have now?

The law states that this type of residence card are issued to family members of an EUROPEAN citizen,right?And what is that law you mentioned? kindly reply.


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## miss lara (Jan 15, 2014)

"Surinder Singh", isn't this meant for families from the UK and not any other EU families? Please explain better,I am trying to get more informations for my sister.Thank you.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

It's the EEA regulation that those with EEA citizenship cannot exercise EU treaty right in the country they are a citizen of. So a German living in Germany or Frenchman living in France cannot bring their non-EEA family member under EU law but under the immigration law of the country. There is a way round this, called Surinder Singh, if the EEA citizen has lived in another EEA state with their family member and worked or ran a business there. Then they can bring their family member back to their home country under EEA provisions, and they will be issued with residence card under EEA rules. 
I don't know why your residence permit states you are an EU family member. Surinder Singh is incorporated into EEA law and is effective throughout the EEA, though it isn't called that outside of UK.


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## miss lara (Jan 15, 2014)

I see.The family member can apply for the EEA family permit right?My dad has been living in the UK since 2013,so, he has been exercising his treaty rights, therefore, his family could visit him regularly, am I right? 

Then my sister who is studying ,as a dependant of my dad, what would you advice?Many thanks.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, of course. 
If your sister is under 21, or 21 or over and is fully dependent on her dad financially, then she can be regarded as direct family member and apply too.


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## miss lara (Jan 15, 2014)

Joppa said:


> Yes, of course.
> If your sister is under 21, or 21 or over and is fully dependent on her dad financially, then she can be regarded as direct family member and apply too.


Many thanks once again.Will be making an update with the procedure. 
Regards


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## miss lara (Jan 15, 2014)

Joppa said:


> It's the EEA regulation that those with EEA citizenship cannot exercise EU treaty right in the country they are a citizen of. So a German living in Germany or Frenchman living in France cannot bring their non-EEA family member under EU law but under the immigration law of the country. There is a way round this, called Surinder Singh, if the EEA citizen has lived in another EEA state with their family member and worked or ran a business there. Then they can bring their family member back to their home country under EEA provisions, and they will be issued with residence card under EEA rules.
> I don't know why your residence permit states you are an EU family member. Surinder Singh is incorporated into EEA law and is effective throughout the EEA, though it isn't called that outside of UK.



Hello Joppa,
after reading on more info about the article 10 of directive 2004/38/EC, I found out about another article 20 which is also accepted ,"https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/entering-the-uk-as-the-holder-of-an-article-10-residence-card/entering-the-uk-as-the-holder-of-an-article-10-residence-card".

This could explain why my residence permit has ,"Residence Card of a Family Member of a Union Citizen" written on it or, it could be due to the fact that my dad is already in the UK exercising his EU Treaty rights.Remember I had my Permanent Permit misplaced,so, I asked another but as a child of an EU/Italian citizen.Then my sister had to ask for another RC because she had a name change.

What do you think?


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