# Family of 4 - is $23000 GBP pa enough?



## MelBell (Jan 16, 2010)

Hi there - we are considering a 2-year relocation from Australia to the UK at about 23K GBP salary. We would have to live within 90 minutes of Heathrow. There is my husband, myself and our two boys, 5 & 6. Is this a reasonable income? Can we do it? Where would be a nice place to live? I'm not expecting to live anywhere near London - someone suggested we try a village and commute.

I've had a look at some rental houses but I have no idea whatsoever where is a "nice" place to live and what traffic is like. Are there any other expenses we may not be aware of?

We're not trying to save any money but we don't want to live in a hovel and be scratching around to make ends meet.

Any input gratefully received!


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## suntan geordie (Jan 16, 2010)

Hi

I lived in London for one year sharing a house with some other guys. I was earning close to that and i didnt have much left at the end of the month and i didnt go mad either. That in london is a below average wage considering the average wage across all of UK is in the region of 30k GBP. For 4 people to survive on only 23k GBP would be an immense struggle - that is unless you have some other benefits from your company (i.e. house paid for, car etc..)

thanks.


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## raspberrykitty (Jan 6, 2010)

No that is not enough. What are your jobs? Would only one of you be working?


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## Ogri750 (Feb 14, 2008)

Pesrsonally, I would say that amount is nowhere near enough for a family of 4


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## MelBell (Jan 16, 2010)

Ogri750 said:


> Pesrsonally, I would say that amount is nowhere near enough for a family of 4


Thanks for your replies. I thought not but have no idea!

My hubby is a flight attendant. I would get a visa but I'd need to find work inside school hours. I don't have any formal qualifications (worked in an office for 20 years). What are the chances of me finding something from 9.30-2.30 M-F with school holidays off? Are there plenty of casual, shelf-stacking-type jobs going?

I haven't been counting on my income for that reason but if we're going to do this, I would need to find a serious job.

Thanks again
Mel


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## raspberrykitty (Jan 6, 2010)

If you have done office work and want to do school hours then try an admin post at a school or something. You could try a supermarket job but it's minimum wage. There'd be cleaning too. I wouldn't say "plenty" but work is there if you are willing to look.


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## raspberrykitty (Jan 6, 2010)

Oh, I forgot, don't know if you are entitled to benefits unless you are a permanent resident or uk citizen but you could look into get housing allowance, income support, working family tax credits and child benefit. 

Why is it you want to relocate? And for such a short time?

How will your Childrens schooling be affected?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

raspberrykitty said:


> Oh, I forgot, don't know if you are entitled to benefits unless you are a permanent resident or uk citizen but you could look into get housing allowance, income support, working family tax credits and child benefit.


You won't be entitled to any of those benefits as a spouse visa holder and would be in breach of the immigration rules in any case (no recourse to public fund).

It is a low salary but typical for a cabin attendant for non-BA type (debt-ridden, overmanned, overpaid) airlines.

There are some jobs available during school hours, but don't count on getting more than £100 a week. Tempting in office will pay you more than shop work but jobs of any kind are hard to come by in recession. Even added to the other salary will still make you struggle - cost of living and housing around Heathrow is expensive (Outer London and Home Counties). Even a modest two-bedroom flat in working-class Hayes (near Heathrow) will set you back over £200 a week or around £900 a month, plus bills like council tax and utilities. Take-home pay monthly on £24k will be around £1500, without pension contribution.


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## MelBell (Jan 16, 2010)

Yikes. It may not be worth while. We would be going for the life experience.

The reason it's only two years is that Qantas has a base at Heathrow and they are offering two-year stints based out of Heathrow and they will give you your job back in Oz at the end of it. The boys are 5 and 6 so now is good time, not to disrupt their schooling too much. State schools and we can live fairly simply, we don't go out to dinner or movies. I would like to see the occasional show and take the boys to see stuff.

I'm not hoping to live near Heathrow - was hoping for a town further out and shoot down the freeway to work. Hubby has to be within in 90mins of Heathrow. Would rent somewhere away from London be cheaper? Swindon? Google Maps says it's a reasonable commute but realistically, what's it like? 

No other benefits available.

There is a possibility hubby would be offered a more senior position - 32 000 GBP. Is that significantly better or are we still around the poverty line?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

MelBell said:


> I'm not hoping to live near Heathrow - was hoping for a town further out and shoot down the freeway to work. Hubby has to be within in 90mins of Heathrow. Would rent somewhere away from London be cheaper? Swindon? Google Maps says it's a reasonable commute but realistically, what's it like?


Rent in Swindon will be cheaper, from around £130 a week for a two-bedroom property, but the extra commuting costs will swallow up the savings. Driving on M4 towards London is one of the most congested, delay-ridden journeys in UK, and you will be competing for road space with tens of 1000s of other cars and lorries. Some of your husband's journeys will be late at night or early mornings, where the delay would be less, but once caught in a jam, it can take hours. Swindon to LHR is around 70 miles, 140 miles return. Taking a typical small car's cost per mile of 30p (petrol, insurance, maintenance, tax, depreciation), you are talking about a return commute cost of £42, plus any workplace parking charge. Cost from Hayes would be £4.



> There is a possibility hubby would be offered a more senior position - 32 000 GBP. Is that significantly better or are we still around the poverty line?


Net pay would be around £2000 a month. A help, but still tight. You will really need to cut your expenses to a bone, and you'll probably have to take a part-time job to survive. Housing and commuting costs will be your major concerns. Plus bringing up children in the South of England can be expensive. While schooling will be (mainly) free other than uniforms and dinners etc, clothing, clubs, travelling and activities can all mount up. You'll also be forced to go away in school holidays, when prices rise steeply.
Remember, if the Border Agency think that projected household income won't be enough, they can deny your visa.


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## MelBell (Jan 16, 2010)

Joppa said:


> Rent in Swindon will be cheaper, from around £130 a week for a two-bedroom property, but the extra commuting costs will swallow up the savings. Driving on M4 towards London is one of the most congested, delay-ridden journeys in UK, and you will be competing for road space with tens of 1000s of other cars and lorries. Some of your husband's journeys will be late at night or early mornings, where the delay would be less, but once caught in a jam, it can take hours. Swindon to LHR is around 70 miles, 140 miles return. Taking a typical small car's cost per mile of 30p (petrol, insurance, maintenance, tax, depreciation), you are talking about a return commute cost of £42, plus any workplace parking charge. Cost from Hayes would be £4.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*whimper*

He gets free parking at Heathrow... 

OK (rallying), if the M4 is a no-go, any other suggestions? 90 minutes from Heathrow, affordable rent, blah-de-blah...can we do it? I'd LOVE to live in England but this is sounding less and less likely.

I'm starting to think Qantas is after young singles with no dependants :-(


Thanks for your input..


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## 123me (Apr 28, 2009)

Joppa said:


> You won't be entitled to any of those benefits as a spouse visa holder and would be in breach of the immigration rules in any case (no recourse to public fund).
> 
> It is a low salary but typical for a cabin attendant for non-BA type (debt-ridden, overmanned, overpaid) airlines.
> 
> There are some jobs available during school hours, but don't count on getting more than £100 a week. Tempting in office will pay you more than shop work but jobs of any kind are hard to come by in recession. Even added to the other salary will still make you struggle - cost of living and housing around Heathrow is expensive (Outer London and Home Counties). Even a modest two-bedroom flat in working-class Hayes (near Heathrow) will set you back over £200 a week or around £900 a month, plus bills like council tax and utilities. Take-home pay monthly on £24k will be around £1500, without pension contribution.


About benefits...are EEU passport holders eligible for benefits if they can't make ends meet, after they move over?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

123me said:


> About benefits...are EEU passport holders eligible for benefits if they can't make ends meet, after they move over?


Generally yes, but there are some restrictions for those from newer EU countries. There is also a general EU rule that states that migrants must not become a charge on the state, but this is more difficult to police in a country like UK where there is no registration or resident permit scheme. Once EU citizens move over, there's no mechanism for checking if their income is adequate without relying on state handouts.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

MelBell said:


> OK (rallying), if the M4 is a no-go, any other suggestions? 90 minutes from Heathrow, affordable rent, blah-de-blah...can we do it? I'd LOVE to live in England but this is sounding less and less likely.


Most airport and airline workers live much closer to Heathrow than the maximum commuting time, because SE England is the most congested part of the country and traffic jams are a everyday occurence and thus extremely annoying and inconvenient. It also happens to be the most expensive. In other parts of the country with less dense population, people often do live further away. In my part of Lancashire, near the coast, I know of several flight crew based at Manchester Airport around 60 miles away. For Heathrow, look closely at areas like West Drayton (right next to the airport), Hounslow, Yiewsley, Hayes, Uxbridge, Slough, Hillingdon etc. There is a huge choice of rental properties, some cheaper than others. Also ask some staff based at Heathrow for ideas and suggestions.



> I'm starting to think Qantas is after young singles with no dependants :-(


Well, a single can live in a shared flat and travel by motorbike or scooter to work, cutting costs drastically. It's the family accommodation and other expenses for supporting a family which is a major sticking point in your case.


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## 123me (Apr 28, 2009)

So let me see if I understand this correctly....I can get benefits form the UK government, even if I have not worked there, just because I have an EEU passport? 

This is not my intention...I am just very curious about this. I have worked all my life, and am not about to stop.


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## raspberrykitty (Jan 6, 2010)

MelBell said:


> There is a possibility hubby would be offered a more senior position - 32 000 GBP. Is that significantly better or are we still around the poverty line?


It would help but you would still need a job too. We are on more than that, have no children, rent a cheap house and don't have too much to spare. 
Do you manage on that salary in Oz? 

Why dont you work out exactly how much you will have per month after tax and N.I. 
You can earn £6475 without tax, then you are taxed at 20%. National insurance it 11% after you earn £95 per week. 
Then calculate how much it will cost you for rent, food, bills, council tax, travel/car, and see how you do. 
I would recommend bringing some savings with you as you will probably need to pay 3 months rent as a deposit. Buy a car or travel card, set the children up with uniforms etc.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

123me said:


> So let me see if I understand this correctly....I can get benefits from the UK government, even if I have not worked there, just because I have an EEU passport?
> 
> This is not my intention...I am just very curious about this. I have worked all my life, and am not about to stop.


No. If you are from 'older' EU or EEA country, you need to be an eligible 'worker' in UK before you are entitled to state benefits like housing, income support etc. To be a worker, you need to meet one of the following conditions:


You are currently employed
You are temporarily unable to work because of sickness or an accident
You were working for at least one year and are now registered as a jobseeker
You were in work but are now in vocational training (although if you have voluntarily given up your job to do vocational training, the course must be related to your former job for you to qualify).

Further restrictions apply if you are from 'newer' EU countries (those joined in 2004) or Bulgaria/Romania. Basically you need to be in work in UK for at least a year before you become eligible. 

So you cannot just come over, and without getting a job, apply for benefits. Initially you have the right to live in UK for 3 months to look for work or start self-employment. If you don't succeed, you don't become a 'worker' and therefore are ineligible for benefits. Exact rules are complicated (and depend on personal circumstances), so if you think you are eligible for benefits, you should get advice from your nearest Job Centre Plus.


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## 123me (Apr 28, 2009)

That makes perfect sense to me....I found it odd to hear that people from EEU countries can get benefits right away.


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## MelBell (Jan 16, 2010)

raspberrykitty said:


> It would help but you would still need a job too. We are on more than that, have no children, rent a cheap house and don't have too much to spare.
> Do you manage on that salary in Oz?
> 
> 
> I would recommend bringing some savings with you as you will probably need to pay 3 months rent as a deposit. Buy a car or travel card, set the children up with uniforms etc.


Hm, I think we have pretty much decided not to come...snif...

Flight Attendants in Oz are on *significantly* more than that. We also don't have much in the way of savings.

Also, it's very unlikely we'd get the higher salary.

Thank you all so much for your advice!

Mel


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## raspberrykitty (Jan 6, 2010)

MelBell said:


> Hm, I think we have pretty much decided not to come...snif...
> 
> Flight Attendants in Oz are on *significantly* more than that. We also don't have much in the way of savings.
> 
> ...


Thats a shame Mel. 

When you say significantly more si that once it has been converted? Can you get the company to increase the money or pay for your flights and rent or something?

x


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## 123me (Apr 28, 2009)

MelBell said:


> Hm, I think we have pretty much decided not to come...snif...
> 
> Flight Attendants in Oz are on *significantly* more than that. We also don't have much in the way of savings.
> 
> ...


I have been following your post for the last couple of days and am sorry to hear that you have decided not to go to England. It is too bad that it is so expensive to live there, especially close to and around London.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

123me said:


> I have been following your post for the last couple of days and am sorry to hear that you have decided not to go to England. It is too bad that it is so expensive to live there, especially close to and around London.


Pity Qantas only flies to Heathrow. If they did fly into Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow etc, that would be a different matter. I can suggest plenty of affordable places near those airports, often only minutes away.


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## zeebo (Nov 15, 2009)

I think you made the right choice.. heathrow is a dump and the whole commuter thing is an absolute joke!! I once lived near bristol and commuted to Hitchin.. on the map doesnt look too bad (certianly when you come from a big country)... but i felt like suicide after a few weeks and that was only doing it on the weekends...


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## MelBell (Jan 16, 2010)

zeebo said:


> I think you made the right choice.. heathrow is a dump and the whole commuter thing is an absolute joke!! I once lived near bristol and commuted to Hitchin.. on the map doesnt look too bad (certianly when you come from a big country)... but i felt like suicide after a few weeks and that was only doing it on the weekends...


Yes, we're hearing that from a few places. I am very disappointed, would love to live in the UK. Plan B - when the kids are grown up, we'll try again. Meanwhile, we'll stay in Oz and put in a swimming pool.


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## carolmartinez (Feb 15, 2010)

*Advice*

Well according to me this is not enough amount for 4 people family.Now a Days in one family at least 3 people may earn out of 4,then it will be sufficient.


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## Weebie (Sep 16, 2009)

You would need to work in order to survive there.


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