# L1A Visa to permenant



## Tonyb111111 (Sep 2, 2015)

Hi guys, I believe my L1A visa will expire after 7 years and my company have told me I will be in the states permenantly. My question is simple, how do you get from visa status to residency??
Thanks


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

the company has to apply ..they may or may not ...


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## Tonyb111111 (Sep 2, 2015)

That sound ominous after spending several thousand pounds of my own money to cover the difference in relocation allowance. Watch this space


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Your company has to apply and sponsor you for a Green card .

If they don't then at the end of the 7 year period, unless you have found another company to sponsor you, you leave the US


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Yes, it is absolutely up to your employer to sponsor your Green Card or not. Was this not part of your contract?


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## Tonyb111111 (Sep 2, 2015)

Contract isn't signed yet, still going through the detail and negotiations, but it will be agreed. I am sure they will sort this out, just wanted to make sure I knew something about the technicalities


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

When I read your first post, I thought that the 7 years were almost up.
Reading your last post, it seems you have not yet moved or commenced the job?

I can't see a company committing to anything 7 years down the track in an employment contract.


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## Tonyb111111 (Sep 2, 2015)

They are going to have to, as I will not be upheaving everyone's life for a temporary relocation. They have stated it is a permenant move, is so I will need reassurance that this will be the case


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

If it is your intention to make the move a permanent one then you should discuss this with your employer during the contract negotiations and have the terms included in the contract.

When hubby and I moved on the L1 we had every intention of staying in the US - our ages, and the fact that we wanted to sell our property in the UK did not lend itself to being in the US for just a few years. So I discussed it with my employer and had a commitment from them that they would apply for and support me in my application for a Green card. 

At the time I did not specify a timeline but they were a very honest company and started the process 6 months after we had moved to the US.

It took a year for the card to come through.

If you are looking for a permanent move you need to have your employer's commitment in the contract and, preferably, a timescale. The discussion will also inform you as to whether your employer is looking at this move as just a temporary one or a more permanent career opportunity.


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## Tonyb111111 (Sep 2, 2015)

Exactly, we are out there again next week for a final look and feel tour, before deciding formally, but we are already decided. Negotiations are going well and like you, I work for a very open, honest and ethical company. As I said, they have stated it is permenant, but I will ask for the residency to go into the contract


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

One problem is they cannot sponsor you unless you're still employed with them. They will of course want/need the right to fire you at least for cause. (And they're not going to want to keep you on their payroll only to commit what could be an immigration fraud if you're not really working for them.) So I think the best you can do is negotiate a termination penalty if they fail to sponsor you/pay for U.S. permanent residence (if you're still working for them) and perhaps also a relocation allowance if your/their efforts to obtain a green card are otherwise unsuccessful, for termination or for any other reason.

You may or may not get what you want here. They may say "permanent," but they cannot actually assure that.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Tonyb111111 said:


> Exactly, we are out there again next week for a final look and feel tour, before deciding formally, but we are already decided. Negotiations are going well and like you, I work for a very open, honest and ethical company. As I said, they have stated it is permenant, but I will ask for the residency to go into the contract


Rather rosy view of an employer No employer can guarantee you a position for the rest of your working days. No employer can guarantee you a Green Card. Sponsor you for it - yes. 

One of the largest beauty supply retailers terminated 11 top IT staff last week. Called them in, then escorted them with security to their cars. One has been with the company 22 years, child 6 will be born next week. One is in the midst of his naturalization process. The bottom line will be a lot lighter tomorrow.


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## EVHB (Feb 11, 2008)

My previous employer is a Fortune top 50 employer in the USA. They will never put it on paper that they will sponsor you for your green card, but if you do your job and no unforeseen things happen, they will sponsor you if that is what they agreed upon when they were relocating you.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

EVHB said:


> My previous employer is a Fortune top 50 employer in the USA. They will never put it on paper that they will sponsor you for your green card, but if you do your job and no unforeseen things happen, they will sponsor you if that is what they agreed upon when they were relocating you.


If the agreeing parties are still in the seat, if it still suits the company, if ... I think OP is not very familiar with US work/employment culture.


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## Tonyb111111 (Sep 2, 2015)

You are right twostep, I have no familiarity with American work ethics & culture, hence my questions on the forum. My only saving grace is that Italy call the shots and make the decisions on what the US sites can and cannot do, including HR issues. I have can return to my current role on current salary within the first year of work there, and I would like to think that I would know the score after a year work over there


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Great, then I'd get a severance payment agreed in writing. They cannot and will not guarantee your U.S. permanent residence, but they can ease the financial burden if (when) things don't work out for whatever reasons.

The ex-CEO of VW is getting a nice exit package, so far, and he's reportedly under criminal investigation in Germany. You claim your employer cares about you and is loyal. Fine, then it should be no problem to include, say, a $15,000 unconditional severance that is only voided either when you become a U.S. permanent resident (with their sponsorship) or when you voluntarily leave them, whichever comes first. Simple. It still doesn't mean you're going to achieve your dream, but at least you'll be able to buy a couple beers (back in a U.K. pub) to drown your sorrows if you don't.

That's how I'd do it. And if they don't agree then recognize your dream is even less likely to happen.


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## StellaJefferson (Sep 8, 2015)

In order for you to be a permanent resident of United States, your company/employer needs to sponsor you. 

We hope you enjoy moving to the States and its life!


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Tonyb111111 said:


> You are right twostep, I have no familiarity with American work ethics & culture, hence my questions on the forum. My only saving grace is that Italy call the shots and make the decisions on what the US sites can and cannot do, including HR issues. I have can return to my current role on current salary within the first year of work there, and I would like to think that I would know the score after a year work over there


Your whole approach seems to be rose colored glasses. Italy or not - US law applies to the US operation. What you do not have in a signed and sealed contract does not apply.

Why are you paying your own move?


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## Tonyb111111 (Sep 2, 2015)

I think some background may prove beneficial in helping this discussion. I work for an international who 18 months ago aggressively bought sites in the US to start supplying the US market. I have been asked by my company if I would head up the US technical operations. The first year is fully expensed, during which time if I, or more importantly my wife, decide it is not for us, then we can come back and I will resume the duties from which I left, with the same contractual arrangements in place. Therefore, I have nothing to lose. We have nearly completed negotiations, relocation expenses are not generous to say the least hence having to pay some of my own money to top up the expenses. I am still negotiating the relocation, but everything else is more than satisfactory. They have said it is a permenant move. I understand that if I don't satisfy expectations, I will be sacked, and would fully expect to be, but on the assumption that I will deliver, it is my understanding from you guys that the company will sponsor me for residency. If/when residency is granted, is this permenant, or will I have to leave the US if I part ways with my sponsor. Hope this makes a bit more sense.

I am right at the start of this journey and I am desperately trying to assimilate as much information as I can, but there is lot so bear with me


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Oh, if you're coming from a background of dealing with European labor law, you may find things to be considerably different in the US. Most US employers can pretty much "roll their own" when it comes to policies about how to treat their employees. 

As far as your residency status is concerned - it depends entirely on the visa you get. And given that you'll be on a work visa, you basically don't get "permanent residency" until your employer agrees to sponsor you for a green card and you have said green card in hand. Up to that point, if you lose your job with the employer who sponsored you, you have to pack up and go back home.
Cheers,
Bev


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Your company evidently has no obligation to sponsor you for permanent residence (evidently you have no contract saying they pay you when they don't), and it would likely be against their own interests to do so. But OK, feel free to ignore all these warnings about real risks. Good luck.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> Oh, if you're coming from a background of dealing with European labor law, you may find things to be considerably different in the US. Most US employers can pretty much "roll their own" when it comes to policies about how to treat their employees.
> 
> As far as your residency status is concerned - it depends entirely on the visa you get. And given that you'll be on a work visa, you basically don't get "permanent residency" until your employer agrees to sponsor you for a green card and you have said green card in hand. Up to that point, if you lose your job with the employer who sponsored you, you have to pack up and go back home.
> Cheers,
> Bev


US labor law is extremely stringent. Just talk to someone in HR. 

OP will depend on the employer until he and his family have Green Card status.


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## Tonyb111111 (Sep 2, 2015)

BBCWatcher said:


> Your company evidently has no obligation to sponsor you for permanent residence (evidently you have no contract saying they pay you when they don't), and it would likely be against their own interests to do so. But OK, feel free to ignore all these warnings about real risks. Good luck.


I don't know why you are getting the idea i am ignoring the warnings?? I agree with everything you have advised. I am just asking questions, listening to the answers and processing the information. My company will pay me while I work, and won't if they get rid of me, that's fairly evident. But let's just say that I do a good job, and they sponsor me for a green card (which I assume is residency). If/when that is granted, am I free to to leave the company and continue working in the US for someone else


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

Yes.


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## Tonyb111111 (Sep 2, 2015)

Thanks everyone for your help.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

twostep said:


> US labor law is extremely stringent. Just talk to someone in HR.
> 
> OP will depend on the employer until he and his family have Green Card status.


US Labor law is stringent on some things, but not on some of the "common" aspects of employment that most Europeans assume. Example: employment contracts are unusual other than for top level executives, there is no requirement to pay severance on termination of an employee, there is no requirement to grant employees vacation or holiday pay, no requirement to provide a pension plan other than the federal social security, etc. Granted, for various benefits, the employer is generally required to treat all levels of employees equitably.

Once you've worked a while in Europe, the legal side of US employment can seem a bit threadbare.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Tonyb111111 said:


> I don't know why you are getting the idea i am ignoring the warnings?? I agree with everything you have advised. I am just asking questions, listening to the answers and processing the information. My company will pay me while I work, and won't if they get rid of me, that's fairly evident. But let's just say that I do a good job, and they sponsor me for a green card (which I assume is residency). If/when that is granted, am I free to to leave the company and continue working in the US for someone else


Once you have a Green card then, should you be laid off, you are free to stay in the US and get another job.

While others have stated that your company is under no obligation to sponsor you for the Green card, during the negotiation time of your employment agreement is the time to bring up the subject of the Green card.

You are not asking for a guarantee of permanent residency in the US* regardless of **what happens with your job *(as some have implied in this thread); you are asking whether your company - _if all goes well with the job _- will sponsor you for the Green card. Note that if the Green card application is turned down at the end of the L1 visa you would have to return to your home country.

We have had posts from other people who transferred to the US, and upon approaching their company once in the States about the Green card were then told the company was not prepared to sponsor them. At the end of the 7 years they had no choice but to leave to their home countries (unless they had found themselves another employer who was prepared to sponsor them for another visa).

Having the Green card does not guarantee you a job - I was laid off by my company after 3 years in the US, but having the card meant I could look for another post and did not have to leave the US.

You lose nothing by discussing whether your company will sponsor you for the Green card. If they are prepared to do so, so much the better; if not, then you have to be prepared to leave at the end of the L1 visa.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> US Labor law is stringent on some things, but not on some of the "common" aspects of employment that most Europeans assume. Example: employment contracts are unusual other than for top level executives, there is no requirement to pay severance on termination of an employee, there is no requirement to grant employees vacation or holiday pay, no requirement to provide a pension plan other than the federal social security, etc. Granted, for various benefits, the employer is generally required to treat all levels of employees equitably.
> 
> Once you've worked a while in Europe, the legal side of US employment can seem a bit threadbare.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Some persistent rumors. Why are employment contracts unusual? Where is a company required to offer private pension plans or pay severance upon termination? PTO is fully paid, some states have mandatory PTO in place, please go to US Dept. of Labor for very boring details.


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

twostep said:


> Some persistent rumors. Why are employment contracts unusual? Where is a company required to offer private pension plans or pay severance upon termination? PTO is fully paid, some states have mandatory PTO in place, please go to US Dept. of Labor for very boring details.


What is PTO?


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Twostep - am talking about my experience in the UK, Germany and France. All three countries have a national pension and health plan which is part and parcel of your employment. All three countries have mandatory vacation time (generally 4 to 5 weeks), and at least France and Germany require a severance be paid to terminating employees - even those who are terminated for "cause."

I never had an employment contract until I got to Europe. There are simply employment protections written into the law here that don't exist back in the US. It's not all a bed of roses, admittedly. But for those raised in Europe, it can come as a bit of a shock the lack of protections in the workplace in the US.
Cheers,
Bev


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Bellthorpe said:


> What is PTO?


Paid Time Off


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Tony, your company's assurance don't mean s**t, with all due respect, unless you successfully negotiate a "failure to perform" payment which is due to you at the conclusion of your employment or upon the company's failure to sponsor you for a green card with only one exception: if you voluntarily leave the company.

We have seen this movie before, many times. Companies _always_ tell their inbound foreign employees, "Oh, we'll take care of you, don't worry." And then they renege on that agreement that doesn't actually exist: nothing is in writing, nothing agreed.

When you are in the U.S. under an L-1 or an H1-B you are the perfect "hostage." You have no right to stay in the United States without your employer's sponsorship, and your employer well knows that. It's expensive for an employer to sponsor an employee for a green card, and the employer knows full well that many, many employees promptly jump ship the moment they get their green cards. That's what's about to become your reality. The only way you can avoid the risk of this all-so-common reality is if you get an agreement, in writing, that your employer must pay you something if they either fail to sponsor you (and support you) for a green card or if they terminate you. Absent that, you're risking being screwed, and it's surely a classic screw.

I don't know how many times we need to repeat this, but that'll likely be all from me on this subject. If you're a smart person you'll take the advice and negotiate accordingly.


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## Tonyb111111 (Sep 2, 2015)

Got that BBCwatcher, and I will negotiate it


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

I should make one more point in the spirit of full disclosure -- or at least disclosure as full as possible.

The basic problem is that it's expensive and disruptive for both employer and employee if things don't work out. There are risks for both parties when transitioning to another country, a country where you cannot count on continued immigration permission without their support and they cannot count on your ongoing services without the same, and without some incentive for you to stay on board. So there is plenty of room for a mutually agreeable arrangement, and one good solution would be along the lines I suggest. It's the smart thing to do for both.

That said, I was unable to come to such an agreement with my employer. However, I still have an amicable relationship since I was able to find a satisfactory alternative that protected my family's interests in the circumstances. (I had a slightly different obstacle, but there was an immigration dimension to it.) In my view my employer made a mistake, failing to see that we had a mutual interest in reaching an agreement along the lines I suggested. The outcome ended up being that I "won" and my employer didn't, and my offer was much better than that. So they made a mistake, but since I was able to find a solution -- and since my employer has a "good guy" who still acted just the same as if there had been an agreement -- we still have a very good relationship. But it is a cordial and mutually beneficial business relationship, a relationship that should never be confused with a family relationship, for example.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> Twostep - am talking about my experience in the UK, Germany and France. All three countries have a national pension and health plan which is part and parcel of your employment. All three countries have mandatory vacation time (generally 4 to 5 weeks), and at least France and Germany require a severance be paid to terminating employees - even those who are terminated for "cause."
> 
> I never had an employment contract until I got to Europe. There are simply employment protections written into the law here that don't exist back in the US. It's not all a bed of roses, admittedly. But for those raised in Europe, it can come as a bit of a shock the lack of protections in the workplace in the US.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Compared to the "national pension" friends and family receive/anticipate, what I can anticipate in Germany my US Social Scurity is in the range of a paycheck for life not survival. We had it worked up the other day and at 60 we will have about 10% income loss which is offset generously by age related benefits from real estate tax to free coffee.

I do not know when you worked where in Europe. In 13 years HR/recruiting I have negotiated and executed my share of contracts from non-exempt, exempt to expat. Personally I would not touch a pencil without a contract. Even US Government jobs come with preliminary and hard copy contracts from GS to K.

Please give me verse and chapter regarding severance pay for termination with cause.

You can read up on vacation/PTO on the site of US Dept. of Labor. 

I have been through my share of what hoops do we have to jump through to get rid of a dead beat in a right to work state. Have you ever had to deal with US Labor Unions?

Who cares! It is all better in Europe

TGIF


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## scotenus (Mar 5, 2012)

We made the move from London to Boston a little over 2 years ago, with a 6 month old and an 9yr old. It was an internal move for my husband with one of the largest pharma companies. We were told it was a permanent position and that, after a year, we could apply for green cards with the company's assistance. Husband is on an L1, myself and the kids are on L2. I was also told that, should I wish to work, the company could also sponsor me.

Here we are, 2 years down the line, one child in middle school and 4 months after finally purchasing our own home (also a lengthy process), and we've just been told that, though it is company policy to sponsor green cards for managers and above (husband is a director), it is down to individual departments to make the final decision...and apparently his dept is the only one to deny to all but VP and above. So, although we are only 2 years into our 5 (can be extended to 7) year visa, I'm now wondering what the future holds for us all.

Be very sure to get everything in writing. I do not relish having to move back to the UK with a teenager who will need to readjust and sit exams.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

twostep - I worked for about 2 1/2 years in a plant in Baden - Pforzheim to be exact. We ultimately managed to fire the head of the Betriebsrat for fondling the female employees. He sued, and the court awarded him a mere 5000 DM in severance after 20 or 30 years working in the plant. (If he hadn't been fired for "cause" he would have been due much, much more. We considered it a real bargain.) I don't have time to check my copy of the BgB for chapter and verse, but believe me, it's in there. (Oh, yeah - I was the HR manager for the plant at the time.)

Perhaps it has changed in the 20+ years I have been away, but in the various positions I held in the US over the 90 quarters that US SSA credits me with, from counter clerk at a bakery to Department and Division manager positions, I never, not once, had a job contract. Expats often did (because they were used to it from where they were transferred in from and where they ostensibly were going to go back to) but even when I went over to the UK to work for a year, the only written agreement I had was my offer letter. In both Germany and France, there is either a formal employment contract, or you fall under the "legislative" contract (or in France, the industry contract, if there is one). As it turns out, in Germany, our plant was covered by IG Metall and their contractual arrangements.

It is not "all better" in Europe, but the labor law here does require certain standards (vacation, health and retirement contributions to the national system, maternity benefits, limited work hours, holidays, time off, etc.) that are not a matter of law in the US. I was sent to a week long class in Heidelberg to learn about how to legally shut down the plant and lay off everyone in it, according to German labor law. The US management was outraged at the process we had to go through, but thank goodness our UK based division management backed us in doing things by the book for Germany.
Cheers,
Bev


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Bev those are your experiences. I spent my US working days in banking/HR/recruiting and have typed/proofed/issued/countered my fair share of contracts for exempt and non-exempt positions. Personally I would not accept a position without one. Thimgs have changed in Germany. Not to the better as far as I see it. From One Euro to Zeitarbeit. Employers are slowly getting the upper hand again. The days of 32 hour weeks, 13 annual paychecks, vacation pay, time off for everything from getting married to moving, .... even the unions are getting weaker.


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