# Different types of expats



## synthia

There are two types of expats in Japan. One is the corporate expat, with a nice benefits package that provides large Western-style accomodation in an ex-pat heavy section of the city, where there are stores carrying goods from home. These packages pay salaries that allow the purchase of these luxury goods.

The other type is the EFL (English as a Foreign Language) teacher. EFL teachers are employed by Japanese companies, and they usually get their jobs by coming to Japan and interviewing on their own. They pay their own airfare, accommodation costs while looking for work, costs for a visa run to Korea if necessary, and frequently their own security deposits and 'key money' for their apartments.


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## attagirl

Thank you so much for this information. I would have never know that there are two classifications of expats, unless you would have told me.


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## Ulann

Me too. I only know that there are two types of passports.


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## Peterc

Japan must be an interesting place to work. I have never been there but one day would like to take a long holiday there. English teachers must be in huge demand there as Japan is also trying to integrate with the rest of the world.


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## Dr. Dozoretz

*probable expat to be*

Thanks for the thread-- I'm new to the site, and am rapidly approaching negotiating a compensation package for the corporate exec version of the expat that you listed above. Any advice is gladly appreciated from any of you out there who are currently expat execs or have been involved (or have any contacts) with negotiating such a package.

Again thanks in advance, Paul


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## synthia

Rent the movie Mr. Baseball and enjoy watching Tom Selleck making all the mistakes you will make. Pay special attention to the 'luxury' apartment. Prepare for major housing adjustments. Apartments have one bath, are small, and don't have closets. Japanese housewives cook on a two-burner gas cooktop. Air-conditioning is not the norm. If you want western-level housing, ask to see pictures of what you will be getting.

Find out what your commute will be like. 

I knew at least one person who was promised a house in Tokyo (he should have been worried right there) and was put in the Kimi Ryokan for five months. His wife was supposed to transfer later, and the company saw no reason for him to have a house or apartment of his own if his wife wasn't with him.


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## Grania

Thanks for your information about the passport.


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## synthia

I don't know what either of you are talking about with the passports? Could you explain?


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## april

This thread has me confused.


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## synthia

There are some people posting on here that really don't know what they are doing or why they are doing it.

I'm afraid I know nothing about expat packages except that they all get apartments in Roppongi and can afford to buy all imported American food and stuff, thereby minimimizing their exposure to living in Japan.


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## easylife

I don't think any post I've seen by that guy makes any sense.


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## japanfan

synthia said:


> Rent the movie Mr. Baseball and enjoy watching Tom Selleck making all the mistakes you will make. Pay special attention to the 'luxury' apartment. Prepare for major housing adjustments. Apartments have one bath, are small, and don't have closets. Japanese housewives cook on a two-burner gas cooktop. Air-conditioning is not the norm. If you want western-level housing, ask to see pictures of what you will be getting.


That housing might seem bad compared to western-level living, but it still provides all the needs. I prefer simple living than excess.


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## Kassi®

well im one of those expats who paid for my own airfare, organised my own accom and have now found a job. whoooop! all good so far! only been here 3 weeks. right near Inokashira Koen, quite luvly! apart from the cockroaches in the kitchen (i call the big one bitey) i am happy in my guesthouse. a change from the norm is always good!


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## synthia

Welcome, Kassi! I was one of the on-my-own types, too. Where is Inokashira Koen?


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## larabell

I think synthia's view of expats is overly simplified (to put it nicely). The range of benefits expats get from their companies varies wildly. I know of quite a few assignees living here (myself included) who would never have been able to come if the package included accomodations in Roppongi. Sure, there are some execs who come over with padded expense accounts but they are in the minority. It is far more common for a company to place the assignee in accomodations which are roughly the equivalent of what they were accustomed to in their home country which, for most of non-exec working grunts, means a reasonably sized concrete apartment not too far from their workplace. And, of course, there are quite a few expats who come on their own without company support. I doubt all of them teach English -- although I suspect that's the majority.

As far as what to negotiate... if your office is in or near Tokyo, try to get at least $3K per month for accomodations. That will *not* put you in Roppongi but it *will* get you a nice security apartment large enough that you don't feel like you're living in a closet with air conditioning. If you're lucky enough to work outside of the Tokyo area, you can get by with a lot less (like $1500 or so for a nice 2-br place).

Depending on the company and how badly they want you over here, you could try for:
a) cost-of-living allowance
b) company-paid Japanese lessons
c) company-paid tax preparation service (you will have to file in Japan too)

Make sure the assignment includes repatriation in the event you're canned, too.

BTW, I'm currently living in a 3-BR security building with plenty of closets, a large shower room, and a fully equipped kitchen in a nice neighborhood only 10 minutes from Shinjuku for about $2K/month. If I were living alone, I could get by with a 1-BR in the same area for less than $1K. Unless you're planning on not working at all, you do *not* have to live like Mr. Baseball in Japan.


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## april

synthia said:


> Welcome, Kassi! I was one of the on-my-own types, too. Where is Inokashira Koen?


It's in Kichijoji on the Chuo line, out from Shinjuku (Tokyo).


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## synthia

To me, what you describe as 'not Roppongi' sounds incredibly plush. Mr. Baseball was plush. In Tokyo I shared a three-bedroom apartment with three others, and also lived in a gaijin house for a while. But most of the time I lived at the Kimi Ryokan, sharing a room, and of course with shared showers, toilets, etc. Air-conditioning? The idea of a $3000 housing allowance? Teachers got, and still get, 250,000 yen per month, no housing allowance, and you usually had to come up with the non-refundable key money on your own (an exchange rate of around 120 yen to the dollar). We lived on about 2/3 of what you think is a minimum housing allowance. It's especially interesting since Japan has experienced deflation since then, and the cost of living is now lower.

While there may be a middle tier of expats, from my point of view there wasn't much difference between the middle and the upper, because they were all incredibly luxurious.

Equivalent housing to home is a luxury.

Whether you are in Roppongi or not, if you come over on an expat package you live in a different world than the ESL teacher.


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## april

Yes I agree. There is no way I can have equivalent housing here in Tokyo. But actually, I really like my tiny apartment better, it is easy to clean, heat and cool, and every bit of space is utilised, whereas homes back home have an awful lot of wasted space. I would love to have some kind of garden though.

Aside from housing, an acquaintance of mine came out with her husband on an expat package, and she recently had a baby. This is a topic I am very interested in as the idea of having a baby here in Tokyo is very overwhelming for me; trying to deal with the system and find all the ins and outs of which hospitals, paperwork, procedures etc. But when I asked what it was like for her, she remarked on how easy it was and very straight forward. After I questioned her further, it turns out everything was taken care of already by the HR department. Lucky!


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## synthia

Perhaps that is the major difference between the two types. Those with an expat package and a good salary have company that does everything it can to make things easy. The others usually have to find their own housing, make their own key deposits, and deal with things pretty much on their own, and having less money per month than our corporate package person, larabelle, thinks is a reasonable housing allowance just adds to it.


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## cherieliu123

Hi Thanks for your valuable information.

Cherie Liu


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## steadyboy

"....As far as what to negotiate... if your office is in or near Tokyo, try to get at least $3K per month for accomodations....."

thanks for the information. My office will be in Yokahama, do you know of any websites I can search looking for appts in Yokahama?


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## jonk77

Yes, and its interesting, because there seems to be little interaction between the two groups. I have detected some snobbery from the execs towards the ESL teachers.


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## larabell

That's not been my experience but, then again, I don't spend much time rubbing elbows with other ex-pats .


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## synthia

The ESL teachers usually can't afford to rub elbows with the corporate expats. They aren't paid a great deal, don't get their housing paid for, and are usually young university graduates paying off student loans.


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## larabell

That explains the "little interaction". I was referring to the snobbery. As far as I can tell, the execs I've met haven't much cared what the other guy did for a living, just that they could speak in the same language (execs, from my experience, have less time to study and, in many cases, tend to _welcome_ anyone with whom they can speak in English).


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## beatnik

*Teaching ESL in japan*



Peterc said:


> Japan must be an interesting place to work. I have never been there but one day would like to take a long holiday there. English teachers must be in huge demand there as Japan is also trying to integrate with the rest of the world.


I'm not expert but my advice would be to go to Japan with as much savings as possible, just as if you were moving to another city in the US. Get an on-call part-time job teaching english. You'll make about $25/hour but that's often for just one hour at a time. With your "free" time be proactive and look for opportunities to find your own students. Billing them directly you'll earn double. Most lessons are being taught in students homes or in cafes so you don't need your own space, you just have to be good at getting around and being on time.


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## beatnik

larabell said:


> That explains the "little interaction". I was referring to the snobbery. As far as I can tell, the execs I've met haven't much cared what the other guy did for a living, just that they could speak in the same language (execs, from my experience, have less time to study and, in many cases, tend to _welcome_ anyone with whom they can speak in English).


I kinda agree. I met guys from Canada and the US that started out as ESL teachers and now are working in corporate doing things like translation and training. Also, they keep learning and expanding their career opportunities. I also met some corporate guys who are making some good money but I think at the end of the day most guys from America and Canada that I met are just happy to meet other cool people and not too concerned about the size of your pay check. I happen to meet people that did start out by teaching and moved on as opposed to people who just got transplanted to Japan so I'm sure that has something to do with my positive encounters.


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## larabell

It may also have to do with whether you *want* to be in Japan (in which case, you are more likely to live in a smaller place and enjoy hanging out with others who are in Japan of their own choosing) or whether you were *sent* here against your will (in which case, you would probably hang out in your cushy apartment in Roppongi watching CNN .


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## beatnik

larabell said:


> It may also have to do with whether you *want* to be in Japan (in which case, you are more likely to live in a smaller place and enjoy hanging out with others who are in Japan of their own choosing) or whether you were *sent* here against your will (in which case, you would probably hang out in your cushy apartment in Roppongi watching CNN .


That sounds right.


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## jamesc

I belong to a third type of expat which I know quite a few of. I was employed directly in Japan by a large multi-national and was considered to be a 'local hire'. From an HR perspective, they treated me exactly the same as other local hires (ie Japanese nationals). 

I was however, given some special priviledges that other local hires didn't receive. My company paid Yen 200,000 towards my rent on a monthly basis. I had to pay the difference which was only Yen 30,000. The rationale for this was that most other local hires in the company either lived with their parents, or had an arrangement where rent wasn't a great financial impact on them. This was supposed to even it up for me.

They also paid for my air fare from home to Japan when I originally started work for them. The rationale they adopted was they hired someone from outside of Tokyo (just happened to be another country) and needed to fly them into Tokyo so they could start work (similar to if they hired someone from Kobe). 

The foreign expats on assignment were given the full royalty treatment and I just had to look on in amazement at how much they were given, knowing full well that they could survive just as I did.


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## larabell

jamesc said:


> I belong to a third type of expat which I know quite a few of. I was employed directly in Japan by a large multi-national and was considered to be a 'local hire'...


I wonder if that isn't actually becoming more prevalent in today's economy. I was brought over on assignment at first but about 3 years later, when things started to get a bit tight in my industry, the company offered me a choice of returning to the US or converting to a local hire. I chose to stay and my boss helped negotiate a bit of a salary increase and a small lump-sum to help with rent for the first year so that the change wouldn't be quite as dramatic. When I changed companies two years ago, I was brought in strictly as a local hire with no special benefits at all. The guy who replaced me at my old company (a friend and coworker of mine who I recommended for the job) was shipped over from the US but since expat status needed special approval, he was actually transferred to the Japan office with the same status as someone who had been hired locally -- that is, no special benefits.

My previous company, just after I came over, had a grand total of 12 expats on "temporary assignment" in the Japan office. They soon caught on to the costs of doing business that way and right now that same company has no expat employees in Japan at all. Their policy now is that an employee is only offered expat status and benefits if the assignment is short term (one year or less) and vital to the continued operation of the company.

Of course, all this is against the backdrop of Silicon Valley based high-tech. Salaries in this industry are almost certainly higher than average and Tokyo's cost-of-living isn't as shocking when you're coming from the San Francisco / San Jose area, anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't more of us "local hires" in the high-tech rank-and-file here in Japan.

I wonder, though, if the same trend is happening in the area of top management (ie: company presidents, controllers, etc) where companies hiring non-Japanese prefer to do so from the pool of existing local residents as opposed to paying through the nose to bring someone over from HQ. The folks at those levels often make enough to survive quite well here, even without additional help from the company. I know of two current company presidents who were hired locally by their current companies but I have no idea what kind of package they were able to negotiate.


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## synthia

What happens in the US has changed, too. Companies don't transfer people as often, and if you move to another company, you may only get a few thousand dollars allowance for covering your moving expenses, or none at all.


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