# Single skin houses and insulation?



## Speago

Hi all.

We have fallen in love with a property in West Algarve, that we are considering putting an offer in on. The house was built about 28 years ago, Standard single skin, block build & rendered. 

What I want to know is about how well can the building itself be insulated? , what is the best type if insulation for this job, and what sort of costs am I looking at?

Thanks Speago


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## paramonte

you have several options, being capoto one of them.

The options will depend on your budget, location, if you want to do it from inside or the outside

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## Speago

Hi Paramonte
Thanks for the reply. We are looking to insulate outside as it is quite a small house so don't want to lose any inside space.

I will give that forum a try now.

Thanks


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## canoeman

My personal preference is one of the external polystyrene systems (various thickness availabe depending on degree of insulation you reguire or the house exposure) mainly because it does insulate the whole house including the post & beam construction that is then infilled.
Internal insulation doesn't really get over the this element 
Coppotto is one of the registered trade names, this one marketed by Robbialac, most builders merchants will have leaflet or a search on line.

Costs you need to inquire locally but it is used extensively in our area for old, 50-70s builds or to beef up new builds

Roof how you insulate depends on construction but if you have a concrete ceiling then again the blue polystyrene insulation laid in roof void through to space age silvered bubble wrap


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## Speago

Hi Canoeman

Thanks for the reply. Have heard of Coppotto a few times, it does seem to be the one most commonly mentioned and the one we will probably end up using. I don't want to scrimp on insulation so would like to use a quality product that will last and do the job well.

The property is about 86 sqm with a concrete ceiling & roof trusses. Am meeting with a builder this week, so I can discuss it with them. But I would like to get a good idea of what is what beforehand.


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## canoeman

Download PDF explains how it works, no doubt you could find a UK version
http://www.viero.com.pt/pub/cappoto_viero_2010_sem_portfolio_aplicacoes_AF.PDF

If I had a North facing wall/corner I'd be inclined to use a thicker panel in those areas


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## travelling-man

you might also consider double glazed windows if it hasn't already got them and from my experience, PVC beats the pants off of aluminium units.


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## AidanMcK

Can anyone give a rough estimate of the final price involved in using this outer insulation method on a say 100m2 house, just the walls? We'll be starting to look at properties soon so this will help us.


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## canoeman

Problem Aidan is that prices will vary across country, thickness specified, external dimensions number of doors/windows etc.
Personally with this product it's better to go with a specialist firm rather than a general builder who'd have to buy specificaly for your property whereas a specialist has some stock and will buy at better prices, DIY also an alternative 1 & 2 stage easy it's the finish coats that need the experts


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## Speago

Without doubt, one of the first things I would do would be double glazing.

Am getting a quote from a builder for all the jobs that need doing. But like you say canoeman, I will probably use a specialist firm when it comes to it. Will be interesting to find out what sort of price I am looking at, as I really have no idea. 

I have also been reading about cork insulation that has excellent reviews. It's said to be one of the warmest and most durable external insulators on the market. It's also sustainable and helps out the Portuguese cork farmers. But again, I have no idea of cost.


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## canoeman

Would suggest external insulation before windows depending on how or where their situated in apertures to get maximum result from insulation or be able to open 
Just something people forget it's not just about keeping warm & dry in winter but keeping cool in the summer 

Cork pricey still needs cladding in some way as protection


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## Tellus

In Germany insulation of buildings is an important topic because of the governments aims to reduce CO².
Unfortunately most landlords and owners are using cheapest material: EPS.
So after a while the "packed" walls are moulding inside - and, very important, EPS is inflammable.

IMHO organic material will be better for walls and health f.i. hemp, cellulose, wool or some kinds of mineral stuff like glasswool, stonewool etc.
Here' s a list (German):Dämmstoff-Übersicht - Dämmstoffe und ihre Eigenschaften


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## In 2 bikes

Our house has external insulation over brick and then rendered and plasti-coated with texture paint. It's a relatively new build, ( 2007 ), with double glazing. It's still chilly because the attic has no form of insulation over the concrete ceiling and both entrance doors are single skinned aluminium that look like the business but are just conveyors of whatever temperature is outside the house. 

My point is, although our little gaff had a decent energy rating, the place still needs some upgrading so don't be fooled with a 'B' or 'C' grade energy ticket in the sales brochure and if it's even lower there will be some considerable costs to boost it to where it should be.


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## canoeman

Portuguese just put on an extra jumper our Energy Certificate isn't bad but suggested up grades are ridiculous like insulating the basement floor possible but cost wouldn't cover any appreciable savings in 20 years or ground floor, just impossible.
Closed attic we dealt with by boarding rafters with the blue boards
At least our Ali doors are insulated but if money no object I take every window/door out and replace with UPVC


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## Maggy Crawford

Our window frames are aluminium which is great because they are maintenance free. However, they are single panes and I am wondering about asking a glazier if he can install another pane of glass to make them double glazed. There are two types, one sliding and one inward opening. The frames are quite deep which is why I am wondering whether there is room to insert another pane. The glazier was excellent before and replaced a broken pane after a storm very cheaply and quickly. He used to be at Castanheira da Pera but has now moved round the corner in Graça.

The cost of replacing all the windows we have with PVC would be extortionate.

Any ideas please?


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## canoeman

Doubt it unless you could get a stepped doubled glazed glass panel


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## In 2 bikes

we are having solar fitted on Dec' 15th and I will insulate the attic before it gets too warm in it and I end up suffocating up there. I don't really have a choice as the Mrs is permanently cold, ( that's physically, not emotionally ). We are even looking at another stand-alone fire for the dining room. So to recap that would be, solar, a pellet burning central heating system, a real open log fire in the kitchen, and a salamandra, plus extra insulation....she'd better appreciate it !


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## canoeman

Put a small pellet burner in highly efficient only needs a 2" flue through a wall and one fuel source


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## In 2 bikes

canoeman said:


> Put a small pellet burner in highly efficient only needs a 2" flue through a wall and one fuel source


why didn't I think of this ?........top idea ..


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## canoeman

Don't forget you'll need to run a double insulated tube through your external insulation might melt otherwise


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## TundraGreen

Maggy Crawford said:


> Our window frames are aluminium which is great because they are maintenance free. However, they are single panes and I am wondering about asking a glazier if he can install another pane of glass to make them double glazed. There are two types, one sliding and one inward opening. The frames are quite deep which is why I am wondering whether there is room to insert another pane. The glazier was excellent before and replaced a broken pane after a storm very cheaply and quickly. He used to be at Castanheira da Pera but has now moved round the corner in Graça.
> 
> The cost of replacing all the windows we have with PVC would be extortionate.
> 
> Any ideas please?


First of all, the aluminum frames are less than ideal because aluminum conducts heat well.

In double pane windows the space between the panes is sealed. This is both to increase insulation value (no air circulating between the panes), but also to eliminate the problem of moisture getting between them and then condensing on the colder pane. I suspect having a glacier install a second pane of glass would be a pretty sorry substitute.

Where I live now this is not an issue, but I grew up in Alaska where everyone had storm windows that were put up each fall and taken down in the spring. They helped but modern double pane windows are much better.


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## Maggy Crawford

Thank you for the explanation. I had a feeling it might not be practical. Our house is single skin with no insulation, built as a summer house when it is fine but winter is difficult. We have a very efficient Deville wood burner with two speed fan which heats up the large kitchen/dining/living room and the we just run between rooms with a bit of spot heating and up and down the marble stairs. Luckily we do escape between January and March.


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## Speago

Had an estimate back today from a general builder for external insulation. 40 Euro per m2. The property is 86m2 have guestimated around 200m2 of surface area so around 8000 Euro ish.


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## paramonte

Depends alot on the area up north average (with all the trimmings)

40mm width 30€ m2

50mm width 35€ m2

viero or weber


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## canoeman

Agree with that, try for a few more quotes


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## Where's David-Paul?

Speago said:


> Hi all.
> 
> We have fallen in love with a property in West Algarve, that we are considering putting an offer in on. The house was built about 28 years ago, Standard single skin, block build & rendered.
> 
> What I want to know is about how well can the building itself be insulated? , what is the best type if insulation for this job, and what sort of costs am I looking at?
> 
> Thanks Speago


Cork board wherever you can work it in. Portugal is the source of this stuff you are providing jobs and it's carbon negative and ultimately biodegradable and pollution free. If the outside of the house is rendered knock it off and replace it with lime cork plaster also made in Portugal.Windows make your oou


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