# Cost of Living(In general)



## boilerman

Shame the other thread got locked as I was getting an insight into the way things were on both side of the channel. So, seeing as I'm hoping to come over towards the end of April, how are things in France, Will I need loads more money for food, fuel, and cakes. I know what that costs me in blighty.
I'd be happy to answer Clic Clac's concerns if I can, by private means


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## ccm47

You can check out prices online, just type into Google the name of the chain supermarket you expect to use e.g. Leclerc or Lidl + catalogue and you can immediately see this week's prices. You could also do a virtual shop by changing "catalogue" to "drive". Hope that helps a little.


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## Traveler12B

You can see our monthly budget on our blog here: Budget After our first year in France we bought a house so we have no mortgage or rent now and we use public transit so we have no car. In our experience we've seen other couples who budget around 2000 euros per month to be comfortable.


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## Bevdeforges

One "peculiarity" of this round of inflation: it's not just a matter of prices rising, but rather of availability - not exclusively due to the war in Ukraine. I've been trying to get a replacement canister of CO2 for my bubbly water machine for a solid week now. The shop says that they've had an order in for some time now but just can't get delivery. 

There are also big gaps on the store shelves - say, for certain types of pasta - but you can still get plain old flour (at least in the bread-grade T55 variety) and it's still pretty cheap. The signs they have put up warn that prices will probably be higher when they can restock. 

And now with the freezing temperatures I expect the prices for fruits and cold-sensitive vegetables will be on the increase this season (again - same thing happened last year). It may come down to substituting products or going back to basics and cooking/baking from scratch to keep your budget intact.


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## Clic Clac

boilerman said:


> I'd be happy to answer Clic Clac's concerns if I can, by private means


Thanks Boily.

Yes, I was just trying to compare both sides of the Channel as the overall living costs will help decide where we move to.

I think rents (in the areas we are researching) are generally cheaper which means we will get a better house, with no 'council tax' to pay.

The cheapest Unleaded petrol around us is pushing 2 euros/litre. I've seen diesel at 2,15 and I was paying 1,28 when we arrived in 2018. 

Food prices are noticeable, as I have pretty much the same order every week. 
I've been chained to the supermarkets during covid, particularly the 'Drive', and want somewhere with local markets and family butchers. 

Even in the supermarkets if you take your time you can save money. 
I fancied some Babybel cheese. I picked up a net of tiny ones, then spotted the 4 inch size. The minis were 15 EUR /Kg, and the large ones were 8 EUR /Kg. 🤔


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## conky2

I am on a tight budget and soI keep a note daily of my supermarket spending, and have done for the last few years. I haven't noticed any vast difference , if any, but then I have never seen so many offers on wine, which helps me out considerably......


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## Bevdeforges

One other factor in the overall cost of living are the differences in what you spend your money on. Over the years we've had any number of folks from the UK who are "surprised" by the health care system here. Biggest surprise is that it is a reimbursement system - so you need to be prepared to pay up front and then get reimbursement directly into your bank account a few days or a week or so later. More medical providers are billing direct, but as far as I know, most GPs still expect to get paid at the appointment.

And then there is the matter of a mutuelle. Figure a good 50 to 150 euros per person, per month for a mutuelle (top up insurance). While a mutuelle is not mandatory, it probably should be for the retired set. In any event, you probably need to include something for the mutuelle when figuring your budget for a move to France. 

The government "subsidy" of 18 cents a litre just took effect on Friday and has dropped the petrol prices noticeably here. But don't forget to adjust that part of your budget for changes in your driving habits. Out in the rural areas that many seem to favor, you may find that you need to drive significantly longer distances for daily necessities, medical treatment or other errands or services.


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## Tricky Dicky

Slightly off topic. I need certain meds every month - blood pressure and diabetes - I pay over the counter for these which are pretty cheap but do not need a prescription - I just take in the empty boxes and ask for replacements. Would that be the same in France?


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## EuroTrash

@boilerman For you, you will be helped by the exchange rate because the £ seems to be getting steadily stronger against the €. So even if the prices in € are higher than on your last visit, in real terms you may even find things cheaper.

In Clics' case, cost of living is not just prices in shops but also taxes, benefits etc. (By the way @Clic Clac , how will you not pay any "council tax"? I thought everybody paid it.) Which depend very much on individual circumstances because as Bev says, the cost of healthcare/mutuelle can be a significant factor but OTOH, if your mutuelle is covered under CMU-C or whatever it's called these days, it is not a factor at all for you.


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## boilerman

Traveler12B said:


> You can see our monthly budget on our blog here: Budget After our first year in France we bought a house so we have no mortgage or rent now and we use public transit so we have no car. In our experience we've seen other couples who budget around 2000 euros per month to be comfortable.


Thats a nice blog, cheers, vey interesting


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## boilerman

EuroTrash said:


> @boilerman *For you, you will be helped by the exchange rate because the £ seems to be getting steadily stronger against the €. So even if the prices in € are higher than on your last visit, in real terms you may even find things cheaper.*
> 
> In Clics' case, cost of living is not just prices in shops but also taxes, benefits etc. (By the way @Clic Clac , how will you not pay any "council tax"? I thought everybody paid it.) Which depend very much on individual circumstances because as Bev says, the cost of healthcare/mutuelle can be a significant factor but OTOH, if your mutuelle is covered under CMU-C or whatever it's called these days, it is not a factor at all for you.


Thanks ET, I was just looking at the exchange rates, and the Post office will give you 1.1652, is that good?


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## Peasant

Inflation is at 4.5% (one of the lowest rates in the industrialised west), electricity is up by only 4% in the past 12 months (up by more than 27% in the eurozone generally), business investment is up, an economy that has recovered to 1% above pre-pandemic levels. (the UK is still 0.1% below), more people are working than before the pandemic, la vie really est belle.









Lower inflation, better jobs … in France la vie est belle


Emmanuel Macron’s reforms have seen the country pull ahead of the UK on most economic measures




www.theguardian.com


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## boilerman

Clic Clac said:


> Thanks Boily.
> 
> Yes, I was just trying to compare both sides of the Channel as the overall living costs will help decide where we move to.
> 
> I think rents (in the areas we are researching) are generally cheaper which means we will get a better house, with no 'council tax' to pay.
> 
> The cheapest Unleaded petrol around us is pushing 2 euros/litre. I've seen diesel at 2,15 and I was paying 1,28 when we arrived in 2018.
> 
> Food prices are noticeable, as I have pretty much the same order every week.
> I've been chained to the supermarkets during covid, particularly the 'Drive', and want somewhere with local markets and family butchers.
> 
> Even in the supermarkets if you take your time you can save money.
> I fancied some Babybel cheese. I picked up a net of tiny ones, then spotted the 4 inch size. The minis were 15 EUR /Kg, and the large ones were 8 EUR /Kg. 🤔


You cant beat a bit of Babybel once in a while

I have a friend in the Lot area, who just had some heating oil delivered, and he paid £1,79 a litre. Sorry its in £s


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## boilerman

Peasant said:


> Inflation is at 4.5% (one of the lowest rates in the industrialised west), electricity is up by only 4% in the past 12 months (up by more than 27% in the eurozone generally), business investment is up, an economy that has recovered to 1% above pre-pandemic levels. (the UK is still 0.1% below), more people are working than before the pandemic, la vie really est belle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lower inflation, better jobs … in France la vie est belle
> 
> 
> Emmanuel Macron’s reforms have seen the country pull ahead of the UK on most economic measures
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com


Thanks "P", at least I wont have to worry about putting the electric heaters on


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## EuroTrash

Just reflecting that since I do currently "split my time" I feel I ought to have something useful to contribute but again the problem is that it can vary so much. In the UK I live very rural, our nearest fuel is a couple of pumps outside a village store and the prices are always sky high compared to Morrisons, 30 miles away, but we try to stay loyal to the local place even if it costs 8p more, on the basis of use it or lose it and we don't want to lose it. (Although the local store charges £24 for Gordon's lemon gin and it is £15 in the Co-op in town, so we alternate with that.) Apart from the lemon gin and hardware/homeware stuff that we have to go into town for, we shop almost exclusively local - village store, local butchers, farm veg shop. So I guess it is the kind of lifestyle a lot of peeps associate with France but I have it in the UK. Whereas in France I live in a small town and (o la honte) get the bulk of my shopping at Aldi because it is a two minute walk away. 

And I buy different products. I never buy gin in France, just like I never buy pastis in the UK. (I am not an alcoholic really, I am just using this because it is a good example!!) In France I eat a lot of galettes, charcuterie, tartiflette, things I don't buy in the UK so it's not really possible to do a like for like comparison. I buy a lot of cheese both sides but different cheeses, and cheese prices vary so much between varieties. Yet more honte, I buy more tinned and frozen veg in France because there is a far wider range and it seems better quality than tinned veg in the UK. Because Aldi is so close I tend to pop in most days and pick up random stuff for couple of days at a time, spending between 10 and 20 euros a time. In Wales we shop less often, we make a list and plan ahead quite carefully and we spend vastly more per shop, up to £100 or more. So it is very very hard to make an overall comparison, sorry. But happy to try to answer specific questions.


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## EuroTrash

boilerman said:


> Thanks ET, I was just looking at the exchange rates, and the Post office will give you 1.1652, is that good?


I will let someone else answer that because I don't actually tend to convert money much, I keep the two separate as far as possible.
But, every month I spend a day proofreading a magazine for a classic car club in the UK, I invoice them in sterling and they pay in sterling but I put it through my micro entreprise so my invoicing tool converts it into euros. I invoice £60 every month, which on 10th January converted to 76,35 and on 24th March converted to 77,94. If you are better at maths than me you can probably work out the exchange rates  but what I take away from that is, that you are getting progressively more euros for your pound.


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## Befuddled

Traveler12B said:


> You can see our monthly budget on our blog here: Budget After our first year in France we bought a house so we have no mortgage or rent now and we use public transit so we have no car. In our experience we've seen other couples who budget around 2000 euros per month to be comfortable.


I don't know whether to laugh or dry. €2000 a month to be comfortable? Try doing it on €600. Its a skill but can be done. On that figure in UK I'd be on the streets living rough.

Clic Clac's Baby Bel example is a good illustration of the skill. In UK buying a larger quantity/tin/box/net of something usually results in a lower price per kg. Only occasionally does this apply in France. "Its retail Jim, but not as we know it".


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## Tricky Dicky

I use Wise for transfers. Last week I got €1.21 for 1GBP


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## boilerman

Thanks for you efforts ET, appreciate that. I also appreciate it difficult to make judgements/comparisons on costs of things. In fact, like you, we live and eat differently when we're in France. Why wouldn't you. Your story about the small local petrol supplier was true enough, we always support the local businesses in and around Barneville, but covid took its toll on the local petrol station, and we noticed it had shut down the last time we were there.


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## boilerman

Tricky Dicky said:


> I use Wise for transfers. Last week I got €1.21 for 1GBP


Cheers Tricky, good to know


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## Tricky Dicky

They charge a little bit of commission but the rate is so much better than who I used to use.


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## BackinFrance

For fuel prices, use the link provided by Clickie in his fuel price checker thread, it is being kept up to date and includes the 15 cent tax reduction introduced by the government on 1 April. 

As Bev says, there is reduced availability of some food items on supermarket shelves. Meat and poultry prices are increasing. any

Many bakeries have increased their prices by 1 to 4 percent after not passing on flour increases earlier.

Fruit and vegetables are seasonal and the cold snap will impact both. 

Fuel costs will flow through to everything. 

Farmers are also being affected by the fact that parts for farm machinery are pretty much non-existent at the moment which will also impact the availability of local produce.


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## boilerman

BackinFrance said:


> For fuel prices, use the link provided by Clickie in his fuel price checker thread, it is being kept up to date and includes the 15 cent tax reduction introduced by the government on 1 April.
> 
> As Bev says, there is reduced availability of some food items on supermarket shelves. Meat and poultry prices are increasing. any
> 
> Many bakeries have increased their prices by 1 to 4 percent after not passing on flour increases earlier.
> 
> Fruit and vegetables are seasonal and the cold snap will impact both.
> 
> Fuel costs will flow through to everything.
> 
> Farmers are also being affected by the fact that parts for farm machinery are pretty much non-existent at the moment which will also impact the availability of local produce.


Thanks BIF, from what I've gathered, with a couple of exceptions , its gone up, on an almost a pro rata basis. So no massive shocks, yet


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## Bevdeforges

Tricky Dicky said:


> Slightly off topic. I need certain meds every month - blood pressure and diabetes - I pay over the counter for these which are pretty cheap but do not need a prescription - I just take in the empty boxes and ask for replacements. Would that be the same in France?


Depends if these are "prescription only" in France or not. If not, then you pay for them. But in France, there are plenty of medications that aren't prescription only - but they are covered by the CPAM plus mutuelle if you do have a prescription from a French doctor indicating that these are part of your treatment.


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## Tricky Dicky

They were prescription only in the UK. Here in Greece I paid €28 for two months supple of 2 different blood pressure tablets and 2 different diabetes tablets - luckily, atm, no insulin injections needed. Would they be covered by my S1?


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## EuroTrash

Tricky Dicky said:


> Would they be covered by my S1?


It doesn't really work like that.
Your S1 entitles you to join the French health service PUMA, and you get a carte vitale.
Then once you are covered by PUMA, you are entitled to exactly the same reimbursements subject to the same conditions as everybody else who is covered by PUMA.
So if your doctor diagnoses you as having an ALD, treatment prescribed for that condition will cost you nothing. If he doesn't diagnose an ALD you will get partial reimbursement.


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## EuroTrash

EuroTrash said:


> I invoice £60 every month, which on 10th January converted to 76,35 and on 24th March converted to 77,94.


Aaargh bollox I just realised I got my figures wrong again. The invoice is in fact for £65 not 60. Apologies to anybody who wondered why my logiciel is using such a stonking exchange rate. Never listen to ET when it quotes a figure, it has more than a touch of dyscalculia.


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## Bevdeforges

But if the medications are prescription only, you'll need to produce a prescription - from a French doctor - to receive your meds at the pharmacy. If you aren't signed up as having an ALD, you pay the unreimbursed part (unless your pharmacy has your mutuelle on record and has a direct billing arrangement set up).


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## boilerman

EuroTrash said:


> Aaargh bollox I just realised I got my figures wrong again. The invoice is in fact for £65 not 60. Apologies to anybody who wondered why my logiciel is using such a stonking exchange rate. Never listen to ET when it quotes a figure, it has more than a touch of dyscalculia.


I did try to work it out, but I never was any good at numbers, so I just took you at your word


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## ccm47

Inflation may soon be the least of our worries: availability issues due to the war in Ukraine are already having an impact and will only get worse. 
On Friday I took my car to be serviced and was advised that I needed new tyres : apparently Russia produces the "rubber" and Ukraine manufactures the tyres, Michelin tyres which come from there are already in short supply! 
I have to have another make, and it seems the size my car requires is just about to run out. Normally I'd take what any garage says with a huge grain of salt but it does ring true as we had problems getting just one tyre a couple of years back after a blow out.
Whether or not an individual needs a vehicle is irrelevant since all supplies arrive with the customer by lorry or van, and the tyres on those vehicles will wear out sooner or later but probably well before the factories are operational once more.


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## BackinFrance

Michelin produces tyres in Russia, not Ukraine. The rubber is not produced in either Russia or Ukraine. Sanctions because of the war in Ukraine are at play.

Michelin produces tyres in a number of other countries, but they may well not be the ones CCM47 needs. It may be that Michelin produces all or most of its tyres for the French market in Russia.


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## Bevdeforges

This was announced mid-March - and has been attributed to "supply issues" as well as to currency instabilities and, yes, the sanctions against Russia. Supply hurdles bring Michelin's Russian operations to a halt

But yes, there will be supply issues - like sunflower seeds to make sunflower oil.


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## ccm47

BackinFrance said:


> Michelin produces tyres in Russia, not Ukraine. The rubber is not produced in either Russia or Ukraine. Sanctions because of the war in Ukraine are at play.
> 
> Michelin produces tyres in a number of other countries, but they may well not be the ones CCM47 needs. It may be that Michelin produces all or most of its tyres for the French market in Russia.


I'm happy to be corrected. It sounded a bit odd to me that the raw materials went from Russia to Ukraine but if Michelin have stopped production in Russia because of the sanctions then French delivery drivers will still suffer.


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## BackinFrance

ccm47 said:


> I'm happy to be corrected. It sounded a bit odd to me that the raw materials went from Russia to Ukraine but if Michelin have stopped production in Russia because of the sanctions then French delivery drivers will still suffer.


There's no way around the flow on effects of sanctions, other than the French government providing financial assistance to those affected and in the longer term relocalising manufacturing to France, or at least to the EU though France is the better option for the French and workers in France.


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## tardigrade

BackinFrance said:


> *There's no way around the flow on effects of sanctions*, other than the French government providing financial assistance to those affected and in the longer term relocalising manufacturing to France, *or at least to the EU though France is the better option for the French and workers in France.*


Yes there are.
1 - you can source from another country
2 - you can develop a suitable replacement for said sanctioned supplies/materials if they can only be sourced from the country affected thru the sanctions.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will the French stand by higher prices for basic items "made in France"? Probable double or triple the price vs. manufacturing in a cheaper country or the EU.
Why would the company want to move to France... Many have already done the jump *out of there*.. 
Only huge government, thus taxpayer €€€s could make them come back and that is no benefit.


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## BackinFrance

That's the perennial problem with globalization, private sector businesses etc. Drastic measures are clearly required for private companies that choose not to do the right thing 
And of course we still have to deal with the environmental impacts, though they are already there just not in France. 
Biggest issue is the power that would be required in France, but that's why we need a properly thought through program, as opposed to a project, or a hotchpotch (is that the word in English?) of projects.


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## Bevdeforges

ccm47 said:


> Inflation may soon be the least of our worries: availability issues due to the war in Ukraine are already having an impact and will only get worse.
> On Friday I took my car to be serviced and was advised that I needed new tyres : apparently Russia produces the "rubber" and Ukraine manufactures the tyres, Michelin tyres which come from there are already in short supply!
> I have to have another make, and it seems the size my car requires is just about to run out. Normally I'd take what any garage says with a huge grain of salt but it does ring true as we had problems getting just one tyre a couple of years back after a blow out.
> Whether or not an individual needs a vehicle is irrelevant since all supplies arrive with the customer by lorry or van, and the tyres on those vehicles will wear out sooner or later but probably well before the factories are operational once more.


Have you tried a different garage or tire store. I don't believe that all Michelin tires sold in France are sourced from Russia. Actually, it sounds like the Russian factory is fairly small. Perhaps another dealer in your area might have the size and type of tire you require.


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## EuroTrash

Online tyre suppliers like allopneus don't appear to have any shortage of Michelin tyres at present.





Pneus MICHELIN, pneu auto pas cher | Allopneus.com


Spécialiste du pneu auto, Allopneus propose un grand choix de pneus Michelin à petit prix et avec un excellent service de montage. Découvrez notre offre de pneus auto Michelin pas chers.




www.allopneus.com




I appreciate that not everybody wants to them, but if you need a tyre you need a tyre.


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## ccm47

Bevdeforges said:


> Have you tried a different garage or tire store. I don't believe that all Michelin tires sold in France are sourced from Russia. Actually, it sounds like the Russian factory is fairly small. Perhaps another dealer in your area might have the size and type of tire you require.


Thank you for the suggestion Bev but the garage in question IS the alternative dealership and also where we bought the car after searching throughout Aquitaine (or so it seemed). The tyres are unusual , even though it is a Citroen, and will be fitted this week when other work which came to light as part of its earlier visit will also be done, much of it at Citroën's expense due to a known fault.

As for keeping tyres in stock, it simply doesn't happen round here. Over the years we've needed everything from tractor to cycle tyres and nobody has ever had one actually available to fit that day.


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## Poloss

One sector that's been left aside on this thread is the exploding cost of building material in France.
Timber, bricks, ciment, metal, plasterboard and all manufactured stuff that's for sale inside your local Casto or LeroyMerlin.
If you're considering doing renovation work it may well cost you an arm!
I've also been astounded by the hike in prices for flimsy chipboard kit furniture in stores like Centrakor, Foir'Fouille and Bazarland.


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## boilerman

Poloss said:


> One sector that's been left aside on this thread is the exploding cost of building material in France.
> Timber, bricks, ciment, metal, plasterboard and all manufactured stuff that's for sale inside your local Casto or LeroyMerlin.
> If you're considering doing renovation work it may well cost you an arm!
> I've also been astounded by the hike in prices for flimsy chipboard kit furniture in stores like Centrakor, Foir'Fouille and Bazarland.


Same in the UK, its scary how much building materials have gone up. I used to bring stuff over with me, but what with post Brexit restrictions, and cost's being similar is not worth it.


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## TwoTravelers

Traveler12B said:


> You can see our monthly budget on our blog here: Budget After our first year in France we bought a house so we have no mortgage or rent now and we use public transit so we have no car. In our experience we've seen other couples who budget around 2000 euros per month to be comfortable.


I always look forward to your blog, by the way. The budget posts are extremely helpful as my wife and I are planning on relocating to Carcassonne in late 2024/early 2025.


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