# Thinking about moving to Bulgaria but getting conflicting info on how bad it really is over there/whether or not it's a good place to live.



## GamerGirl

Comin' from the States. 

I'll have about $10,000 dollars. If everything goes well, I'll have a place to stay. The logistics seem to be nightmarish, so I don't even know if I am capable of doing this, but feel compelled to nonetheless. No plans yet, though. I know I come across as an idiot/am an idiot for even considering such a thing.

I am a youngish female (32). How dangerous is this? Would be living in a small to medium-sized city.


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## Bevdeforges

First question: do you speak the language? Seriously, you will probably find it difficult to impossible to live in most non-anglophone countries without some basic understanding of the local langauge.

Have you checked the Bulgarian consulate website to see what it takes to get a long-stay visa? Without a job (or a plan for what you're going to do) it may be next to impossible to get a long-stay visa.


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## GamerGirl

Don’t speak a lick of it and have no real plans aside from living with the guy to whom I’ve been chatting.


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## Bevdeforges

OK, well they aren't handling any sort of visa applications at the moment, so you're going to have to wait until the travel ban is lifted for the EU. But in the meantime, take a look at what the requirements are here: Visa for Bulgaria – BG Embassy

You'll need a D visa (i.e. long-stay), which will require a personal interview, a medical insurance policy that covers you for your time in the EU and a statement of your reason for wanting to live in Bulgaria.


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## GamerGirl

Bevdeforges said:


> OK, well they aren't handling any sort of visa applications at the moment, so you're going to have to wait until the travel ban is lifted for the EU. But in the meantime, take a look at what the requirements are here: Visa for Bulgaria – BG Embassy
> 
> You'll need a D visa (i.e. long-stay), which will require a personal interview, a medical insurance policy that covers you for your time in the EU and a statement of your reason for wanting to live in Bulgaria.


Thank you for the info. Do you know if I have to get that stuff before I leave or if I can wait until I am there? I know I can stay there for 3 months sans a visa.


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## Bevdeforges

You definitely need to get a visa before you leave if you intend on staying longer than the 90 days you get as a tourist.


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## ALKB

GamerGirl said:


> Don’t speak a lick of it and have no real plans aside from living with the guy to whom I’ve been chatting.


How do you plan to cover your cost of living?

Have you visited Europe before and I don't mean a quick trip to Paris, London or a week on a Spanish beach. Have you travelled to any of the not-so-well-off parts at all? 

Have you met the guy you are planning to move in with on another continent face to face, yet?


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## GamerGirl

ALKB said:


> How do you plan to cover your cost of living?
> 
> Have you visited Europe before and I don't mean a quick trip to Paris, London or a week on a Spanish beach. Have you travelled to any of the not-so-well-off parts at all?
> 
> Have you met the guy you are planning to move in with on another continent face to face, yet?


Never been to Europe before and never met him in person. I know it’s idiotic and naive. Would Bulgaria qualify as a bad part of Europe? Seems okay to me, but I don’t know that for sure, of course.
Regarding covering cost of living, I’d be living with him and he makes money and I’d bring some as well.

I am not dead set on doing this but want as much info as possible in case I do make the leap.


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## Bevdeforges

Be very, very careful. This could very easily be a human trafficking scheme. We have had at least one person on this forum (a long time ago) who was asking questions about some wonderful job she had been offered, that included accommodation and all sorts of other benefits - and was a huge scam. Fortunately she didn't get very far into it, but it did sound like classic human trafficking at the time. And Bulgaria has been known for a few schemes like this.


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## Nononymous

Three possible outcomes:

1. You will never get a visa from the Bulgarian consulate.

2. You will return to the US broke and depressed, but wiser.

3. You will be made into sausage.


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## ALKB

GamerGirl said:


> Never been to Europe before and never met him in person. I know it’s idiotic and naive. Would Bulgaria qualify as a bad part of Europe? Seems okay to me, but I don’t know that for sure, of course.
> Regarding covering cost of living, I’d be living with him and he makes money and I’d bring some as well.
> 
> I am not dead set on doing this but want as much info as possible in case I do make the leap.


Bulgaria is not a 'bad' part of Europe (define bad?) but it's on the economically weaker side. Many Bulgarians move to countries in central, western and northern Europe to earn money to send home.

Okay, apart from some very real personal risks, in general, immigration does not work this way.

You can't just turn up in a country and tell the authorities: I'll live off my boyfriend's income, you won't even realize I am here, won't work illegally, either, swearsies! and expect that that will be enough for a residence permit. There are no boyfriend/girlfriend visas and he could decide to not support you at any time. 

Residing rather than visiting comes with a string of obligations. Permission to stay at all, taxes, health care, and possibly some unique Bulgarian things I wouldn't know about.

In many countries, you can migrate if you have a job and an employer who is willing and able to sponsor you for a work permit, if you have family, like a spouse, or if you are taking up studies at a university (would that possibly work for you?).

Why the urge to move right away?

How about visiting first? Preferably with your own separate accommodation. Maybe the town he lives in is awful. Maybe he is awful when around 24/7. Maybe it's all wonderful.

Also, since he is Bulgarian and presumably speaks Bulgarian, is he helping you research residence permit requirements?


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## GamerGirl

Bevdeforges said:


> Be very, very careful. This could very easily be a human trafficking scheme. We have had at least one person on this forum (a long time ago) who was asking questions about some wonderful job she had been offered, that included accommodation and all sorts of other benefits - and was a huge scam. Fortunately she didn't get very far into it, but it did sound like classic human trafficking at the time. And Bulgaria has been known for a few schemes like this.


I do worry about this but have not seen any signs he is a trafficker, though maybe I don’t know the signs for which to look.
He at least hasn’t asked me for any money or to rush into a relationship.


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## GamerGirl

ALKB said:


> Bulgaria is not a 'bad' part of Europe (define bad?) but it's on the economically weaker side. Many Bulgarians move to countries in central, western and northern Europe to earn money to send home.
> 
> Okay, apart from some very real personal risks, in general, immigration does not work this way.
> 
> You can't just turn up in a country and tell the authorities: I'll live off my boyfriend's income, you won't even realize I am here, won't work illegally, either, swearsies! and expect that that will be enough for a residence permit. There are no boyfriend/girlfriend visas and he could decide to not support you at any time.
> 
> Residing rather than visiting comes with a string of obligations. Permission to stay at all, taxes, health care, and possibly some unique Bulgarian things I wouldn't know about.
> 
> In many countries, you can migrate if you have a job and an employer who is willing and able to sponsor you for a work permit, if you have family, like a spouse, or if you are taking up studies at a university (would that possibly work for you?).
> 
> Why the urge to move right away?
> 
> How about visiting first? Preferably with your own separate accommodation. Maybe the town he lives in is awful. Maybe he is awful when around 24/7. Maybe it's all wonderful.
> 
> Also, since he is Bulgarian and presumably speaks Bulgarian, is he helping you research residence permit requirements?


By “bad” I mean “unsafe” or “dangerous”, especially for women. I am getting conflicting info on the prevelance of violence against women — it’d be bad news for me to end up there and he be violent and/or abusive towards me. If it means anything, I don’t get any bad vibes from him and don’t feel afraid of him or like he’d do anything to hurt me but that could be incorrect.

He lives in Pazardzhik and it seems like a nice city to me. Also, maybe we could get married. I don’t know. If I bring a few thousand of my own dollars and have the proper paperwork, will that be enough to show the government I’ll be able to support myself? It’ll be $5,000 at a minimum.


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## ALKB

GamerGirl said:


> Also, maybe we could get married.


Think long and hard about that. And look up Bulgarian law before you enter into anything.

I don't know whether 5k would be considered enough.

Also note that standard of living will be very different from what you are probably used to in the US. Even if a Bulgarian family could survive on 5000 $ for a year, they will probably also have very different expectations.

Things you probably consider cheap staples of everyday life may well be exotic, hard to get by, imported commodities that no local person would dream of buying regularly. You might find that you are unable to live as cheaply as the people who have lived there all their lives and that money is running through your fingers like water - which it tends to do in the first months after an international move anyway, or so has been my experience.


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## Bevdeforges

GamerGirl said:


> I do worry about this but have not seen any signs he is a trafficker, though maybe I don’t know the signs for which to look.
> He at least hasn’t asked me for any money or to rush into a relationship.


Take a look at the information from the Bulgarian embassy regarding a type D visa: http://www.bulgaria-embassy.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/VISA-TYPE-D-VISA.pdf

Especially the part about qualifying for a long-stay visa:


> A long-stay visa with a validity term of up to one year and a right to stay up to 360 days may be issued to foreigners who perform science research or are students under tuition programmes for up to one year, post-graduate or trainee students, foreigners sent on assignment by a foreign employer for the performance of specific tasks, related to control and coordination of a tourist services contract as well as foreigners sent on assignment by a foreign employer for implementing investments under the Investment Promotion Act (under article 15, paragraph 2 of the Foreigners in the Republic of Bulgaria Act).


I don't think $5,000 or even $10,000 is going to get you a visa.


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## GamerGirl

ALKB said:


> Think long and hard about that. And look up Bulgarian law before you enter into anything.
> 
> I don't know whether 5k would be considered enough.
> 
> Also note that standard of living will be very different from what you are probably used to in the US. Even if a Bulgarian family could survive on 5000 $ for a year, they will probably also have very different expectations.
> 
> Things you probably consider cheap staples of everyday life may well be exotic, hard to get by, imported commodities that no local person would dream of buying regularly. You might find that you are unable to live as cheaply as the people who have lived there all their lives and that money is running through your fingers like water - which it tends to do in the first months after an international move anyway, or so has been my experience.


Hm...I don’t see how he lives much different from me. He has a smartphone (it’s a midrange one and 4-years-old but still), computer, flat-screen TV and decent clothing. His bathroom did look kinda bad — it has black stuff on the tile and the toilet was a lot lower to the ground than mine is — but, overall, his standard of living does not seem much worse than mine or that of an average American. Am I missing something here? What are things I’d consider to be cheap staples of everyday life?


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## ALKB

GamerGirl said:


> Hm...I don’t see how he lives much different from me. He has a smartphone (it’s a midrange one and 4-years-old but still), computer, flat-screen TV and decent clothing. His bathroom did look kinda bad — it has black stuff on the tile and the toilet was a lot lower to the ground than mine is — but, overall, his standard of living does not seem much worse than mine or that of an average American. Am I missing something here? What are things I’d consider to be cheap staples of everyday life?


I don't know his specific circumstances.

I haven't lived in America for a while and have never lived in Bulgaria. Keep in mind that Bulgaria is considered the poorest nation of the EU. I hear that horse-and-cart is not such an unusual sight out in the countryside.

I don't know your specific circumstances either, but peanut butter, ranch dressing, air conditioning in private residences, idk - pop tarts?, jello, huge availability of choice in supermarkets, vegan coconut oil, getting stuff delivered over night when ordering online, every individual having a car and driving absolutely everywhere, having a dryer (just about all Americans I know had some sort of dryer crisis when moving to Europe) all springs to mind. 

Maybe all of that is available in Bulgaria, maybe none of this is important to you, but there will be things that neither you nor I think of right now but that will be unavailable in Bulgaria.

Culture shock will be considerable. You do know that Bulgaria does not use the Latin alphabet? I once lived in a country where I could not read a thing. Not pleasant.

Regarding domestic violence, Bulgaria, as some other south eastern European countries, does have a reputation of nothing much happening to a man unless the damage done to the woman he is in a relationship with, is considerable/permanent/lethal. Not saying that your friend would do such a thing.


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## Bevdeforges

Amnesty International has a full section devoted to Bulgaria. Start here: Bulgaria

Besides the things that ALKB has mentioned, just remember that should you and this friend have a falling out of any sort, you'll be on your own in a foreign country where you can't understand the language, may or may not have the right to work (or the ability to get a job with your US qualifications) and may or may not be qualified to make use of any "social safety net" that may or may not be available there.


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## GamerGirl

Bevdeforges said:


> Amnesty International has a full section devoted to Bulgaria. Start here: Bulgaria
> 
> Besides the things that ALKB has mentioned, just remember that should you and this friend have a falling out of any sort, you'll be on your own in a foreign country where you can't understand the language, may or may not have the right to work (or the ability to get a job with your US qualifications) and may or may not be qualified to make use of any "social safety net" that may or may not be available there.


Yes and that is another reason why I am hesitant. Thank you.


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## GamerGirl

ALKB said:


> I don't know his specific circumstances.
> 
> I haven't lived in America for a while and have never lived in Bulgaria. Keep in mind that Bulgaria is considered the poorest nation of the EU. I hear that horse-and-cart is not such an unusual sight out in the countryside.
> 
> I don't know your specific circumstances either, but peanut butter, ranch dressing, air conditioning in private residences, idk - pop tarts?, jello, huge availability of choice in supermarkets, vegan coconut oil, getting stuff delivered over night when ordering online, every individual having a car and driving absolutely everywhere, having a dryer (just about all Americans I know had some sort of dryer crisis when moving to Europe) all springs to mind.
> 
> Maybe all of that is available in Bulgaria, maybe none of this is important to you, but there will be things that neither you nor I think of right now but that will be unavailable in Bulgaria.
> 
> Culture shock will be considerable. You do know that Bulgaria does not use the Latin alphabet? I once lived in a country where I could not read a thing. Not pleasant.
> 
> Regarding domestic violence, Bulgaria, as some other south eastern European countries, does have a reputation of nothing much happening to a man unless the damage done to the woman he is in a relationship with, is considerable/permanent/lethal. Not saying that your friend would do such a thing.


Regarding the last paragraph you wrote there, that is what I have read as well, that the injuries must be really bad for the justice system to take action. If what he has told me is true, he and his mother were physically abused by his dad as a kid and I am not sure if that means he would perpetuate that violence against me as well. 

Regarding food choices, he told me he has to take a bus 40 minutes away just to get McDonald's. I don't care much about the food, however or having a dryer -- I just want him, corny as that is.


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## Veronica

The whole situation rings some very loud alarm bells for me. Bulgaria is a country that most people are desperate to leave not one to go to. It is known for human trafficking. Mafia style gangs run prostitution rings with women so scared of them they dare not try to escape. I know this as there was a big influx of Bulgarian gangs into Cyprus when they joined the EU and many women were brought from Bulgaria to Cyprus to work as prostitutes. There were several cases of these women being killed by the gang bosses when they tried to get away. Of course your man is hopefully not one of these but I would certainly not risk it in your position. Too risky being in a foreign country with a man who is a stranger to you with no family or friends as back up. It might all sound like I am being an alarmist but IMO better to be safe than sorry.


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## conildlf

My Odds on this:

Chances this turns out good: 1%

Chances this turns out bad: 99%


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## ALKB

GamerGirl said:


> Regarding the last paragraph you wrote there, that is what I have read as well, that the injuries must be really bad for the justice system to take action. If what he has told me is true, he and his mother were physically abused by his dad as a kid and I am not sure if that means he would perpetuate that violence against me as well.
> 
> Regarding food choices, he told me he has to take a bus 40 minutes away just to get McDonald's. I don't care much about the food, however or having a dryer -- I just want him, corny as that is.


We don't know this person at all, so we can't give relationship advice. Moving before ever visiting is kind of drastic.

Have you traveled outside of the USA before? Been to a non-English speaking country?

Bulgaria is classified as a second world country, with the cities exhibiting first world characteristics, while rural areas have third world characteristics. If your friend would take a 40 minute bus ride to a McDonald's, it means he does not have a car. Have you ever done grocery shopping without a car? I have never owned a car in my life, which is a personal/ecological choice rather than an economical one and since my nearest grocery store is literally next door, it's not a problem. Nevertheless, I had times in my life where I had to walk at least a kilometer to get food and that was sometimes very hard, especially when feeling a bit under the weather or when it's raining or the sun is beating down on you mercilessly.

He seems to have given you a video tour of his home. At the very least, ask him to show you the outside of the building as well as looking up and down the street. Then ask yourself: if this man would not live on that street, would you voluntarily walk down it on a dark winter evening?

Please take any precaution possible.


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## Rob_Brice

I’m in Bulgaria at the moment so can try it answer your questions with the limited information provided.

Bulgaria is generally considered safe, certainly crime and violence is much lower here than in many richer, more developed countries. Crime tends to be either organized (mafia) which is quite prevalent but usually involves prostitution, money laundering, theft of EU funds etc. That’s not something you would encounter unless you know someone in the mafia. The other type of crime is petty theft which tends to be perpetuated by the large gypsy community that exists across the country.

I know Pazardzhik, which isn’t far from Plovdiv where I’m currently staying. It’s a small, provincial town, with typical Bulgarian infrastructure (I would say comparable to Mexican level) without that many endearing qualities, and is famous for having a large gypsy population. If your friend takes a 40 minute bus ride to get to a Macdonalds, then he will likely be living in one of the surrounding villages where facilities and infrastructure will be poorer.

The quality and choice of food in the chain supermarkets in the cities is the same as any EU country, and restaurants are cheap and plentiful, although outside of the bigger cities choices are limited to Balkan (think Greek/Turkish style) and Italian.

Bulgarian’s are a friendly, hospitable bunch and tend to have a typical laid back Southern European attitude, which means you need patience and an acceptance of a much slower, relaxed pace of life. Officialdom is painfully slow, many clerks are incompetent and things take much longer than you might be used to.

I agree with others here and my overwhelming advice is to go for a vacation first to check things out before you even think about relocating.


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## GamerGirl

Rob_Brice said:


> I’m in Bulgaria at the moment so can try it answer your questions with the limited information provided.
> 
> Bulgaria is generally considered safe, certainly crime and violence is much lower here than in many richer, more developed countries. Crime tends to be either organized (mafia) which is quite prevalent but usually involves prostitution, money laundering, theft of EU funds etc. That’s not something you would encounter unless you know someone in the mafia. The other type of crime is petty theft which tends to be perpetuated by the large gypsy community that exists across the country.
> 
> I know Pazardzhik, which isn’t far from Plovdiv where I’m currently staying. It’s a small, provincial town, with typical Bulgarian infrastructure (I would say comparable to Mexican level) without that many endearing qualities, and is famous for having a large gypsy population. If your friend takes a 40 minute bus ride to get to a Macdonalds, then he will likely be living in one of the surrounding villages where facilities and infrastructure will be poorer.
> 
> The quality and choice of food in the chain supermarkets in the cities is the same as any EU country, and restaurants are cheap and plentiful, although outside of the bigger cities choices are limited to Balkan (think Greek/Turkish style) and Italian.
> 
> Bulgarian’s are a friendly, hospitable bunch and tend to have a typical laid back Southern European attitude, which means you need patience and an acceptance of a much slower, relaxed pace of life. Officialdom is painfully slow, many clerks are incompetent and things take much longer than you might be used to.
> 
> I agree with others here and my overwhelming advice is to go for a vacation first to check things out before you even think about relocating.






Thank you. The building itself is an apartment building and has less than 20 floors, if I remember correctly. It looks like this, though I cannot say the ground does (ground in photo admittedly looks bad):

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/comments/a2sbnw

The colors on the outside of his building do look a bit different.


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## GamerGirl

conildlf said:


> My Odds on this:
> 
> Chances this turns out good: 1%
> 
> Chances this turns out bad: 99%


Please elaborate. Do you mean I'd get killed or something? That is a fear of mine and also being trafficked but I have not seen any red flags in regards to the latter.


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## Nononymous

GamerGirl said:


> Pazardzhik Bulgaria


That looks like a scene from _Borat_.


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## conildlf

GamerGirl said:


> Please elaborate. Do you mean I'd get killed or something? That is a fear of mine and also being trafficked but I have not seen any red flags in regards to the latter.


I have no idea what is going to happen. And it sounds like you don't either.

Think to yourself:

1. What could turn out good?

2. What could turn out bad?

Then base your decision ultimately on that.


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## Bevdeforges

And just one further thought. Be sure to have a Plan B - what to do if you get over there and for any reason whatsoever things don't turn out the way you are expecting them to. Will you return home to the US? Try to stay in Bulgaria? Go to some other country? And for all of that, where will you get the money to execute Plan B? To get a new visa (if you need one)? To live on your own until you can set yourself up on your own? 

You should have a fully thought out "escape plan" before you head over there. Ideally, you won't need it. But if you don't have the plan before you go, there is no telling what could happen and you could have no way out.


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## GamerGirl

Nononymous said:


> That looks like a scene from _Borat_.


I don’t think the buildings look too awful but the ground does but his area may be nicer — that is, if that isn’t his area.


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## GamerGirl

Bevdeforges said:


> And just one further thought. Be sure to have a Plan B - what to do if you get over there and for any reason whatsoever things don't turn out the way you are expecting them to. Will you return home to the US? Try to stay in Bulgaria? Go to some other country? And for all of that, where will you get the money to execute Plan B? To get a new visa (if you need one)? To live on your own until you can set yourself up on your own?
> 
> You should have a fully thought out "escape plan" before you head over there. Ideally, you won't need it. But if you don't have the plan before you go, there is no telling what could happen and you could have no way out.


Totally agree and definitely would. This is all probably just a fantasy of mine and that kinda breaks my heart and has made me cry.


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## ALKB

GamerGirl said:


> Totally agree and definitely would. This is all probably just a fantasy of mine and that kinda breaks my heart and has made me cry.


I am just wondering what stops you from going on a visit to Bulgaria (once travel is permitted again) before upping sticks and moving your whole life to a country you have never been to?


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## Rob_Brice

GamerGirl said:


> Thank you. The building itself is an apartment building and has less than 20 floors, if I remember correctly. It looks like this, though I cannot say the ground does (ground in photo admittedly looks bad):
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/comments/a2sbnw
> 
> The colors on the outside of his building do look a bit different.


This is a typical panel block scarring much of Eastern Europe and built during the days of communism when ugly, brutalist architecture, copied from Russia was the standard. The apartments are usually pretty poorly finished, badly maintained, baking hot in summer and cold in winter.

Fortunately over the past 20 years there’s been a big construction boom with a lot of modern, attractive apartments being built, and some of the old commie panel blocks are in the process of being insulated and painted, and the joinery replaced which certainly improves the look - but that’s a slow process here, as is everything organised by the state.


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## Nononymous

Rob_Brice said:


> This is a typical panel block scarring much of Eastern Europe and built during the days of communism when ugly, brutalist architecture, copied from Russia was the standard. The apartments are usually pretty poorly finished, badly maintained, baking hot in summer and cold in winter.


To be fair, it was less a political and aesthetic decision than an economic one. The priority in postwar Europe was to house people quickly and cheaply. Lots of nasty Brutalist stuff went up everywhere, but the Soviet bloc took it a step further with pre-fab construction that made everything look like poorly built children's toys. (I have in fact seen an East German set of building blocks to assemble little prefab apartment blocks. It was hilarious and I wish it had been for sale.)


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## Stevesolar

To the OP,
Just be careful that anybody you meet in a country like Bulgaria - does not see you as their ticket to a better life in the USA.
There are some very cunning & mercenary people out there - who are prepared to play the “long game” - as a means to an end.
They befriend somebody in a western, richer country like UK or USA, get married - move to the western country, get residence, get a passport - then dump the westerner.
I know two people this has happened to - so its always something to consider & guard against.
Cheers
Steve


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## ALKB

Nononymous said:


> To be fair, it was less a political and aesthetic decision than an economic one. The priority in postwar Europe was to house people quickly and cheaply. Lots of nasty Brutalist stuff went up everywhere, but the Soviet bloc took it a step further with pre-fab construction that made everything look like poorly built children's toys. (I have in fact seen an East German set of building blocks to assemble little prefab apartment blocks. It was hilarious and I wish it had been for sale.)


And it wasn't just the East. There are parts of former West Berlin that regularly get mistaken for former East Berlin because of the high density pre-fab housing they are domineated by (Gropiusstadt and Märkisches Viertel for Nononymus as a Berlin connoisseur).  

But to be honest, there is pre-fab and then there is pre-fab. OP might not think it looks too bad (maybe I haven't been to the right places in the US???) but I see both water damage ad possible structural issues. Would not want to move in.


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## Nononymous

ALKB said:


> And it wasn't just the East. There are parts of former West Berlin that regularly get mistaken for former East Berlin because of the high density pre-fab housing they are domineated by (Gropiusstadt and Märkisches Viertel for Nononymus as a Berlin connoisseur).


Yeah but the Plattenbau are pretty special, with all the visible seams. The children's building set was fantastic, you could basically recreate Marzahn in your Wohnzimmer. (Or if we want to get seriously Ossi, set it up on your MuFuTi.)

One of my prized possessions is a copy of the "Langweilige Postkarten" book, the German version of the British original. It is a struggle telling west from east sometimes.


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## ALKB

Nononymous said:


> Yeah but the Plattenbau are pretty special, with all the visible seams. The children's building set was fantastic, you could basically recreate Marzahn in your Wohnzimmer. (Or if we want to get seriously Ossi, set it up on your MuFuTi.)
> 
> One of my prized possessions is a copy of the "Langweilige Postkarten" book, the German version of the British original. It is a struggle telling west from east sometimes.


We could also throw some French banlieue in, for some serious pre-fab social hotspot blight!

I had to look up the book and now I want to collect boring post cards! Ack, I do not need another hobby!


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## Nononymous

I want this so bad: Wohnblock mit kastenförmiger Architektur aus weißen, roten, grünen, blauen und durchsichtigen Kunststoffteilen. | Ddr spielzeug, Plattenbau, Ddr museum berlin


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## GamerGirl

ALKB said:


> I am just wondering what stops you from going on a visit to Bulgaria (once travel is permitted again) before upping sticks and moving your whole life to a country you have never been to?


I am not confident he feels the same way — his behavior is confusing — and I don’t want to waste


Rob_Brice said:


> This is a typical panel block scarring much of Eastern Europe and built during the days of communism when ugly, brutalist architecture, copied from Russia was the standard. The apartments are usually pretty poorly finished, badly maintained, baking hot in summer and cold in winter.
> 
> Fortunately over the past 20 years there’s been a big construction boom with a lot of modern, attractive apartments being built, and some of the old commie panel blocks are in the process of being insulated and painted, and the joinery replaced which certainly improves the look - but that’s a slow process here, as is everything organised by the state.



"That is a slow process here..."

Does that mean there is a good chance he lives in one of the buildings you described? He sent me a photo of his bathroom once and the floor tile had...pardon my poor wording...black parts on it in some places. 

His toilet is also _very_ low to the ground, appears to be made of plastic and is IN the shower. However, either him, his mother or her boyfriend has a decent-looking car...


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## Rob_Brice

(


GamerGirl said:


> "That is a slow process here..."
> 
> Does that mean there is a good chance he lives in one of the buildings you described? He sent me a photo of his bathroom once and the floor tile had...pardon my poor wording...black parts on it in some places.
> 
> His toilet is also _very_ low to the ground, appears to be made of plastic and is IN the shower. However, either him, his mother or her boyfriend has a decent-looking car...


The chances are that he could live in one of those panel block apartments, as do the majority of citizens of countries all over the former Soviet block. As for its condition and home comforts, you have to put it into context that the average monthly income in Bulgaria is only around 900 US dollars, and whilst restaurants are cheap, unfortunately food, clothing, building materials and white goods are the same price as the rest of Europe, leaving the average Bulgarian with little money to spend on updating their apartments.

Bulgarians, like Greeks and Turks and some other parts of Southern Europe tend to have ‘wet room’ bathrooms where the entire room - shower, sink, toilet all get a good drenching when taking a shower, so that might seem strange but is actually quite normal in this part of the world.


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## Nononymous

Hey, a low plastic seat in the shower is still an improvement over a hole in the shower.


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## ALKB

GamerGirl said:


> I am not confident he feels the same way — his behavior is confusing — and I don’t want to waste


Wait, wait, wait. Visiting is a no because you don't know how he feels about you and you don't want to waste (your time? Money?)

But moving and potentially getting married to him is not only infinitely more expensive and risky but somehow also a better idea?


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## Nononymous

There's good Balkan meme potential here: "I came for the toilet in the shower, I stayed for the mother's boyfriend's decent-looking car."


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## GamerGirl

ALKB said:


> Wait, wait, wait. Visiting is a no because you don't know how he feels about you and you don't want to waste (your time? Money?)
> 
> But moving and potentially getting married to him is not only infinitely more expensive and risky but somehow also a better idea?



No, of course not -- and I never said any of this was a good idea. I am just getting as much info as possible.


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## *Sunshine*

GamerGirl said:


> No, of course not -- and I never said any of this was a good idea. I am just getting as much info as possible.


What do you do for a living?


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## Stevenjb

Get a cat

Sent from my Lenovo TB-8705F using Tapatalk


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## Stefan.D

I've seen your post by pure chance while googling something else. Not sure if I will enter this forum again so apologies if there is no follow-up from my end.

I am from Pazardzhik (though I live abroad for quite a few years), so I can give you some insight.

*Work and Visa:* It is hard for employers to hire non-EU citizens so if you want to work and start making money, you will need to have formal marriage at some point. After the marriage you will get the proper papers and all should be good for a full-time labor contract job. Someone sponsoring you for a job with US papers is close to impossible, unless you are the ultimate engineer or computer programmer. You can still freelance though or teach English with a civil contract, so this is a way to make some money.

Monthly salaries in Pazardzhik are around $500 NET (after taxes and everything) and in Plovdiv around $800-900 NET. 

There are not too many office jobs in Pazardzhik, mostly factories and labor intensive jobs. However, there are some exceptions like this IT company: Programmingo - Software Development Collective in Pazardzhik, maybe you can find something there. BUT Plovdiv is nearby and there is plenty of jobs there like IT companies, call centers, factories, etc. Daily commute to Plovdiv will be 30 mins with a train or a bus.

*Pazardzhik:* It is the typical sleepy and boring Bulgarian provincial town and I would say it is pretty safe. I've felt much more insecure in Berlin and London for example. There are some occasional drunken fights and thefts but nothing to worry about. BUT the building from the picture you've posted is from the gypsy neighborhood and it is very dangerous for anyone to be there: Screenshot. So if your friend lives there DO NOT go there to visit them. If things work out, both of you should move out of there and find a nice apartment in the center for $150-$200 monthly rent. Luckily, the apartment buildings in the center are freshly renovated, so you will not live in such building. Based on your posts, I think your friend lives in the nearby villages and not in the town. Also there is no bus to McDonalds, by car it is 20 mins.

There are big supermarket chains like Billa, Lidl, Kaufland and others, so you can buy pretty much anything in the shop. Weekly grocery shopping is settled provided you have the money. Also the restaurants, bars, cinema and parks are not that bad. And there are mountains nearby for hiking.

The biggest problem of the town is that in the last 10 years most young people moved to Sofia or Plovdiv, so it feels a bit weird for a young person to live there.

*Money: *$10 000 will get you 2 very comfortable years in Pazardzhik even if you pay the whole monthly rent on your own and shop more expensive stuff. 

*Language:* Not too many English speakers except young people. If you need help ask high school students on the street and you should be fine.

*The whole thing:* Be very careful what you get yourself into, I do not know this person so I cannot say definitively if they are good or bad. To be honest, they can either be a quirky nerd loner or a human trafficker and there is no sure way to tell this from a distance. If they live in the neighborhood from the picture, I would bet on trafficker. Book a hotel and stay for a few weeks ($25-50 per night) and see how it goes. Get a plane from US to London and then from London to Plovdiv, it will be like $600-$800 in one direction.

Good luck and be smart!


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## Isla Verde

Rob_Brice said:


> Bulgarians, like Greeks and Turks and some other parts of Southern Europe tend to have ‘wet room’ bathrooms where the entire room - shower, sink, toilet all get a good drenching when taking a shower, so that might seem strange but is actually quite normal in this part of the world.


I live in Mexico City in a very small apartment in an oldish building. My bathroom is as described in the above post. No big deal actually. After I shower, I just mop up the floor and wipe off wet surfaces. It all dries pretty quickly since the climate here is on the dry side, even during the rainy season!


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## ARPC

Gamer girl, please update us on this mission! Did you give the Bulgarian and his unfamiliar toilet setup a chance? Or decide to redirect your energy? I recall this thread from time to time and wonder how you’ve gotten on? Hoping for max happiness whenever!


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