# Preparing for Winter



## Dave and Anne Galicia (Nov 15, 2008)

This will be our third winter in Galicia. When it comes to keeping warm it’s a continuous learning process and we, like most people use a combination of methods – log burning fire; portable gas fires; thick curtains isolating winter living areas; cheap electric convector/oil heaters (v. expensive to run); electric blanket; layers of clothes; woolly hats etc, etc.

Apart from the cold, moisture, condensation and mould growth are a problem. We run dehumidifiers in the winter to help manage this problem. They seem to sell a lot of dehumidifiers in Galicia!

We now want to reduce, if not eliminate the use of the portable gas fires which produce so much moisture by adding electric heating to some areas. Any advice would be most welcome.

From what we have researched there are appear to be three main contenders for what may be described as “running cost efficient” electric heaters.

1.	The expensive (200-300 Euros) wall mounted gel/oil radiators you see in most electrodomesticos shops. Various makes are available, the best possibly Junkers (Bosch) and all claim to use the minimum of electricity due to the “magic gel” and electronics! They do however look like quality bits of kit and are well made. 

2.	BEHA Norwegian Convector Heaters or possibly other makes of similar design? The design of the heating element claims to result in running costs similar to 1. but they cost less to buy.

3.	Panel heaters which seem to be made of fibre/cement with presumably heating wires within. Perhaps relatively “cheap and cheerful” but quite possibly a very sensible and pragmatic design. They appear to have no control, apart from off/on but you can fit a plug- in thermostat/timer as an addition.

Does anyone have any experience of these types of heaters ?

We are also looking at trying to move the heat from the log burning fire around more effectively as it currently tends to “pool” in the immediate vicinity of the log fire where it can be too hot!. We are going to try a few fans strategically located. The problem may be finding suitable fans that are not noisy or drafty?

Comments, advice gratefully received.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Is your log fire open or does it have a door?
We have a cast iron "box" (caseta in Spanish) with a glass panelled door. This means it's easier to keep going and more efficient too. It's a Norwegian make. There are vents upstairs in two of the four bedrooms and in the landing too. Some fires like these have an electric fan built in to help distribute the heat better.
However, this wasn't enough for our living room and last year we replaced the patio doors with better quality double glazing and not sliding doors (apparently they don't close tightly enough.)
We also changed the insulation in the outside walls and we have some kind of ecological shredded paper (!!) and not white polystyrene. We also upgraded the quality of the radiators and changed the distribution from one big one to two smaller ones on different walls. You have to calculate the number of elements in the radiators to square meters. 
Success!! Despite having a long cold winter we were nice and warm in our revamped living room.
Not exactly the answer to the questions you asked, but might come in useful


----------



## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

Dave and Anne Galicia said:


> This will be our third winter in Galicia. When it comes to keeping warm it’s a continuous learning process and we, like most people use a combination of methods – log burning fire; portable gas fires; thick curtains isolating winter living areas; cheap electric convector/oil heaters (v. expensive to run); electric blanket; layers of clothes; woolly hats etc, etc.
> 
> Apart from the cold, moisture, condensation and mould growth are a problem. We run dehumidifiers in the winter to help manage this problem. They seem to sell a lot of dehumidifiers in Galicia!
> 
> ...


Hi Dave and Anne,
I can't help you too much with the electric solution as we don't use them. However, we have some family that do and all I can tell you is that all the ones they've tried are expensive. They have the "Nocturna" installed, storage units for overnight charge and day release. But when they have visitors they need to top up in some rooms where they don't have the storage heaters. They use the oil filled units and even looked at the relatively new "Calor Azul" which is supposed to be the mut's nuts on electric heating on a budget, but the sales guy at the shop told them that oil heatrs are much the same give or take. Bottom line, they're X Kilowatt units and appart from them holding the heat more or less based on the technology of the interior liquid, when you put them on, you still need a flaming good electric resistance rating on your contract or your resistor will trip. He said that the problem with these is that it doesn't take many to get to the 3 or 4 Kw that most people have contracted. So, the ones my family use are generally on at night (half price storage heating rates) but when they put them on in the day because of the young ones, it does often cause trip proplems - not to mention bill expansion.

You don't mention anything about your house build. Is it an old place. My mum's place suffers from most of the old building lapses and although solid, it's very badly thought out for keeping the warmth in. For example, it has cavity walls, but no insulation in them. It also has structure build. And those cavitly walls, like most of the houses of that era, meet the pillar, inside and out. So, not thermal break, so condensation in the winter at and around the external walls structure points.

I made secondary windows LOL  for her. Just some wood surround on perspex that she puts up in front of the window frame in the winter at night on the north facing walls. It has made a HUGE difference to the temperature in the north facing rooms and the condensation - though as you say, she does use a dehumidifier for a couple of hours a day to keep the walls dry and thus save on re-decorating later on.

We have a woodburner in our place with fans and ducts to the upper floors. It's great to sit next to and saves a bomb on the diesel central heating we have. We do also get some condensation first thing in the morning when the nights are really cold and that's with thermal breaks on out windows, but apparently new builds suffer this for a couple of years until they dry out fully as there is obviously a lot of moisture in the morter, plaster etc., etc.

Hope you find a solution to your heating probs but I would strongly recommend trying out the secondary perspex "pop up at night" solution and you might find you keep enough in to not have to generate much more.

Good luck.

Xose


----------



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Electric heaters are electric heaters - what you put in (kilowatts) is what you get out (kilowatts in less efficiency losses). There may be minor differences in efficiency losses between types of heater but they are not very significant.

Heat pumps (some a/c units use this technology) might be the way to go, i.e. cheaper to run, but will be expensive to buy.

I've no real suggestions other than gas heating is generally cheaper.

Do not get taken in by "more efficient" electric heating. Remember, kilowatts in == kilowatts out.

My advice? Sit by the fire, wrap up and discover 103.

Why are we talking about this yet?:noidea:


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jimenato said:


> Electric heaters are electric heaters - what you put in (kilowatts) is what you get out (kilowatts in less efficiency losses). There may be minor differences in efficiency losses between types of heater but they are not very significant.
> 
> _*That's a good point. Our heating is natural gas and we don't have any electric heaters *_
> 
> ...


***


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

All I can say is that no one ever told me how cold Spain and Spanish houses are in the winter!!! Before I came here, I read that it was warm/hot during the day, but refreshingly chilly at night!!! WTF!!!! In the main its cold, wet and windy! Yes there are some sunny days, but in the three winters I've been here I dont think they're that frequent! At least in the UK houses are built to keep warm, central heating, carpets, insulation, damp proofing.......

I'm getting an electric blanket this year and another portable gas heater!

Jo xxx


----------



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> That's a good point. Our heating is natural gas and we don't have any electric heaters


Do you mean piped in like in most of the UK? I've not come across that in Spain.

(BTW I've spent 11 winters here - it just seems to be taking "Be Prepared" to the extreme to be talking about this now)


----------



## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

jojo said:


> All I can say is that no one ever told me how cold Spain and Spanish houses are in the winter!!! Before I came here, I read that it was warm/hot during the day, but refreshingly chilly at night!!! WTF!!!! In the main its cold, wet and windy! Yes there are some sunny days, but in the three winters I've been here I dont think they're that frequent! At least in the UK houses are built to keep warm, central heating, carpets, insulation, damp proofing.......
> 
> I'm getting an electric blanket this year and another portable gas heater!
> 
> Jo xxx


I have read these posts with interest. I send you all my commiserations. I feel that I am living in a different country for last winter we didn't need any form of heating whatsoever, although on occasions I did wear a pullover.

The different areas of Spain are so diverse,

Hepa,
El Hierro, Islas Canarias


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Hepa said:


> I have read these posts with interest. I send you all my commiserations. I feel that I am living in a different country for last winter we didn't need any form of heating whatsoever, although on occasions I did wear a pullover.
> 
> The different areas of Spain are so diverse,
> 
> ...


Thank you Hepa :becky::becky::mmph:


Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jimenato said:


> Do you mean piped in like in most of the UK? I've not come across that in Spain.
> 
> (BTW I've spent 11 winters here - it just seems to be taking "Be Prepared" to the extreme to be talking about this now)


Yes!
We used to have bottles, but then they introduced natural into this area zone by zone and I believe new builds use this method. You didn't have to take up the offer, but 95% of people did believing it to be cheaper and more convenient. If most people on the street did it you got a better deal. Well, it isn't much cheaper if at all, but I suppose you don't have to worry about the gas running out halfway through your paella.
PS we have to get in touch with the chimney sweep at the end of August otherwise he gets too booked up!


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I could not believe how cold it got in our house, our first winter here in Andalusia. The houses are build for a hot climate, with marble floors metal doors and no double glazing, but for some reason they don't insulate them against cold. We had oil-filled radiators in two rooms and wall panels in two more, and a propane gas heater in the lounge. Our heating bill for December through February was about 500 euros - outrageous!

We managed much better on our second winter; insulated curtains helped a lot. Thermal underwear, 2 pairs of socks and fleecy tracksuits helped even more - I even wore fingerless gloves while typing! 

I must say the wall panels are pretty useless, apart from taking the chill off before it gets really cold. The gas stove is very effective for quick heat, but as you have to run a humidifier to prevent black mould you might as well spend that money on electric heating. The oil-filled radiators take ages to heat the room so they have to be left on all the time, which is expensive. I too will be interested to see what other people recommend.


----------



## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

friends of ours have the cermaic panel heaters and never stop saying how good and cheap they are


----------



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

dunmovin said:


> friends of ours have the cermaic panel heaters and never stop saying how good and cheap they are


I wonder how they know - what they are comparing with. 

If you casually read an advertisement for these panels it would seem that somehow, miraculously. they produce loads more heat per watt than any other kind of electric heater.

However if you read them carefully...


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I wonder what do the Spanish who live in Andalucia do in the winter?? Do they think it's normal to bake in the summer :wacko: and freeze in the winter????

(Bit off topic as the OPs are in Galicia, but they seem to have gone MIA anyway):spy:


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I think the Andalucians tend to heat up one room in their houses, a big open fire making it warm, toasty and snug, put lots of rugs down, wear extra clothes and wrap up even warmer when they go out. 

Jo xxx


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I wonder what do the Spanish who live in Andalucia do in the winter?? Do they think it's normal to bake in the summer :wacko: and freeze in the winter????
> 
> (Bit off topic as the OPs are in Galicia, but they seem to have gone MIA anyway):spy:


In our village, where most people live on very low incomes, they pile on more clothes. Often they just put their dressing gowns on over their pyjamas when they get up, and go to the shop in them! They also use circular electric fires which they put under the table, with a big tablecloth over the table, and this keeps their feet and legs warm. Butane gas heaters are popular too, because gas is cheaper than electricity.

The minute the temperature drops below 25 they wear scarves and jumpers and complain "Fresquito!" The minute it goes over 30 they get the fans out and cry "Que calor!" It´s quite funny. But they seem to cope. They go to the old folks centre or the health centre waiting room for a chat, because these provide free heating or aircon.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

dunmovin said:


> friends of ours have the cermaic panel heaters and never stop saying how good and cheap they are


We have them but we hardly use them. Except in a very small room, like a bathroom, they don´t provide enough heat once the nighttime temperature goes below 10 degrees. A friend who does have small rooms leaves his on all the time, but he still needs a gas heater in the living toom.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> In our village, where most people live on very low incomes, they pile on more clothes. Often they just put their dressing gowns on over their pyjamas when they get up, and go to the shop in them! They also use circular electric fires which they put under the table, with a big tablecloth over the table, and this keeps their feet and legs warm. Butane gas heaters are popular too, because gas is cheaper than electricity.


Hahaha, I just love the dressing gown culture!! But you have to be in the right place to be able to get away with it, don't you?!

The circular tables are called _*mesa camilla*_ here (Madrid) I think. I didn't think people still used them. Health and safety would never let you get away with it in the UK!!


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> In our village, where most people live on very low incomes, they pile on more clothes. Often they just put their dressing gowns on over their pyjamas when they get up, and go to the shop in them! They also use circular electric fires which they put under the table, with a big tablecloth over the table, and this keeps their feet and legs warm. Butane gas heaters are popular too, because gas is cheaper than electricity.


Hahaha, I just love the dressing gown culture!! But you have to be in the right place to be able to get away with it, don't you?!

The circular tables are called _*mesa camilla*_ here (Madrid) I think. I didn't think people still used them. Health and safety would never let you get away with it in the UK!!

PS Rugs seem to be a good way to go. Friends of mine put down these huge Algerian rugs which pretty much cover the whole room. They do require a bit of care though and of course you need storage space for them in the summer...


----------



## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I wonder what do the Spanish who live in Andalucia do in the winter?? Do they think it's normal to bake in the summer :wacko: and freeze in the winter????
> 
> (Bit off topic as the OPs are in Galicia, but they seem to have gone MIA anyway):spy:


I'd be amazed to learn that there are Spanish families in the south living in single brick build between structure homes dsigned for a "given" market.

As to the concept of hot climate living builds, cool in Summer and Warm in winter - i.e. thick walls in the older builds with whie walls to push away the sun rays, with carefully layed out window placements for through ventilation + either "persianas" installed by now or those secondary wodden exterior shutters seen so much in older houses - for winter nights (and many use them in the day to keep the heat out.

As for new buids, built for people and not said market, then good insulation (the yellow stuff you see sprayed on so many unfinished building walls these days), 40+ cm walls, cavity or other techniques (termoarcilla 15-30 cm bricks for example) and even possibly central heating  as it is known for people in Spain to have it - even carpetting - which is a major pain in the summer what with all that chlorine wreaking havoc with it etc


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hahaha, I just love the dressing gown culture!! But you have to be in the right place to be able to get away with it, don't you?!
> 
> The circular tables are called _*mesa camilla*_ here (Madrid) I think. I didn't think people still used them. Health and safety would never let you get away with it in the UK!!
> 
> PS Rugs seem to be a good way to go. Friends of mine put down these huge Algerian rugs which pretty much cover the whole room. They do require a bit of care though and of course you need storage space for them in the summer...


Dressing gowns - yep, I saw an old boy in pink paisley jimjams walking his chihuahua one afternoon. Wish I'd had a discreet camera!

Mesas camillas - the family opposite us definitely use one and I've seen the electric circular heaters in the shops. I adapted the idea last winter and put a small fan-heater under my desk - worked a treat.

Rugs - sounds like a good excuse to go shopping ... our Persian cat died earlier this year  so no excuse now.

Can't believe we are having this conversation, it's 36 degrees outside and the persianas are down to keep out the sun!


----------



## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

mesas camillas , yes. elactric heaters , no. They still use red hoat coals in a bucket here !! 
xose I'm sorry to disappoint you but yes, they do build & live in themselves , houses that are freezing in winter & hot in the summer. My neighbours house I still remember walking in at christmas time to see 3 of the boys on the settee , watching the tv with a rug over them & the youngest was 22! The other son Paco, who I work with, around jan. or feb. time came out of the house one morning ( he doesn't live their ) & said to me " what's the temp ? " " 14 I replied ", "good God, that's 6 more than in their !!" The mother won't have heating & there's none in the house except the log burner in the kitchen, which is guarded by the 18 year old dog.
The subject of whether others houses are the same came up a couple of weeks back when Paco asked his 2 cousins who are working with us , whether their houses were cold in the winter & hot in summer. Yes was the reply , & one of them built his own !! 
I think they'll all end up upstairs with the daughter when we've finished as the apartment has 70mm of polyurethane as ins. on the outside, 100mm of rockwool between the outer & inner skins & the roof will be the same. 
Our house is the old 'adobe' mostly so is reasonably cool in summer , except when the doors are open to let the dogs come & go, & warm in the winter. We've only a logburner in the lounge & another in the kitchen that we don't light that often. I don't really prepare for winter just wait for it to turn up ,which here is normally late dec. or early jan.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Love this sentence


> I don't really prepare for winter just wait for it to turn up


----------



## crc (Jul 4, 2010)

Murcia really it's 15 degrees, with some days it can go as low as 10 degrees, so I don't really need to prepare.


----------



## Normatheexdiva (Jan 29, 2009)

*Rugs!*

When we lived in Asia, we bought a lot of rugs. In the winter, we pile them on our bedroom floor, as our bedroom is what was a hayloft/servants quarters. It's a bit like living above a garage, as below there is the entrance from the front double doors.
The wind whistles up through the chestnut floorboards -nice in summer but horrendous in winter.
So, every rug we posses goes on the floor. We do have that aluminium foil sandwich insulation in the roof, which works very well and the biggest windows face north-west. 

But we are high up and the temperatures are much lower than down in let's say Ourense or Vigo. 
The water in my bedside glass sometimes freezes. 
Most people here use Butano gas heaters as it is so much cheaper than electricity. Our rooms are large though (it's not a Pazo) and our downstairs woodburner does work well. I could do with another though...and a nice dressing gown!
xx











Pesky Wesky said:


> Hahaha, I just love the dressing gown culture!! But you have to be in the right place to be able to get away with it, don't you?!
> 
> The circular tables are called _*mesa camilla*_ here (Madrid) I think. I didn't think people still used them. Health and safety would never let you get away with it in the UK!!
> 
> PS Rugs seem to be a good way to go. Friends of mine put down these huge Algerian rugs which pretty much cover the whole room. They do require a bit of care though and of course you need storage space for them in the summer...


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Normatheexdiva said:


> When we lived in Asia, we bought a lot of rugs. In the winter, we pile them on our bedroom floor, as our bedroom is what was a hayloft/servants quarters. It's a bit like living above a garage, as below there is the entrance from the front double doors.
> The wind whistles up through the chestnut floorboards -nice in summer but horrendous in winter.
> So, every rug we posses goes on the floor. We do have that aluminium foil sandwich insulation in the roof, which works very well and the biggest windows face north-west.
> 
> ...


Yes, I had forgotten how expensive electric heating was. The original heating (yes, we have a fire and central heating!) was electric which we couldn't afford to run, so that was changed to bottled gas (4 on at a time) and then natural gas.
Norma, you should definitely invest in a warm dressing gown...

PS Heat wave in Madrid for the last few days. Can't bear to look at the fleece dressing gown I bought for my daughter in the UK sales!!


----------



## Normatheexdiva (Jan 29, 2009)

I bought a handwoven poncho at a feira a couple of years ago. It's by a woman who lives in Castille y Leon and it's closely woven lambswool and the warmest thing I possess.
Lidl thermal pads are good, but too hot for me. Once I'm warm, I'm okay. I prefer hot water bottles. 
Mr Exdiva loves his heating pad. Maybe a dressing gown too! 
We do have friends with propano calefaccion, but their rooms are smaller than ours. The metre-thick walls help and modern windows help keep heat in but most of the house is exposed roof tiles. We do have plans for more foil sandwich insulation and boards, but no money right now. Firewood and ITV have priority. 24 Year old car is always going to have problems...Or is it 23? Anyway it's ancient. 
xxxx



Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, I had forgotten how expensive electric heating was. The original heating (yes, we have a fire and central heating!) was electric which we couldn't afford to run, so that was changed to bottled gas (4 on at a time) and then natural gas.
> Norma, you should definitely invest in a warm dressing gown...
> 
> PS Heat wave in Madrid for the last few days. Can't bear to look at the fleece dressing gown I bought for my daughter in the UK sales!!


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Normatheexdiva said:


> The metre-thick walls help and modern windows help keep heat in but most of the house is exposed roof tiles. We do have plans for more foil sandwich insulation and boards, but no money right now. Firewood and ITV have priority. 24 Year old car is always going to have problems...Or is it 23? Anyway it's ancient.
> xxxx


I don't want to bang on about ecology and environmental friendly as I'm sure you know what you're doing in that way up there in Galicia, but have you thought of paper or cork for insulation? We have both and they are veeeery effective (along with double glazing)


----------



## Normatheexdiva (Jan 29, 2009)

The paper solution is very tempting, but we haven't seen it anywhere.
Cork is quite expensive, unfortunately. First...replace (as put back in place) the roof tiles.
Slippage has caused holes and leaks and thanks to the wonders of amazing neighbours, one of ours is going to help.
Our village is quite wonderful, or rather our neighbours are. We are lucky in that our 3 closest houses are occupied by people of more or less our age, with elder parents living with them (not us though).
We meet nearly every day and it's been a great crash course in the 2 languages for me, Mr Theexdiva isn't as good with languages, but hilarity often ensues. 
Like the other day, when he was talking about headache and said 'mal de tete' and I clutched my busoms in outrage and said 'mal de tetas?' a good exit moment to screams of laughter. 
We are lucky though. But I think I'm a reincarnated Gallega, same sense of humour, muscles, earthy lack of prudishness..
xx
xxx


Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't want to bang on about ecology and environmental friendly as I'm sure you know what you're doing in that way up there in Galicia, but have you thought of paper or cork for insulation? We have both and they are veeeery effective (along with double glazing)


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't want to bang on about ecology and environmental friendly as I'm sure you know what you're doing in that way up there in Galicia, but have you thought of paper or cork for insulation? We have both and they are veeeery effective (along with double glazing)


Sore point! I live in the middle of a huge cork-oak zone and the cork is rotting on the ground because wine producers are turning to plastic stoppers. Yet when I went to try and buy some wall tiles, I could only find cork imported from China!


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Normatheexdiva said:


> The paper solution is very tempting, but we haven't seen it anywhere.
> Cork is quite expensive, unfortunately. First...replace (as put back in place) the roof tiles.
> Slippage has caused holes and leaks and thanks to the wonders of amazing neighbours, one of ours is going to help.
> Our village is quite wonderful, or rather our neighbours are. We are lucky in that our 3 closest houses are occupied by people of more or less our age, with elder parents living with them (not us though).
> ...


First stop is definitely to get the roof sorted. You'll probably notice such a difference after that that you'll forget all about insulation. 
I was afraid cork might be expensive. I don't _*think*_ the paper alternative was. If I ever find a reference I'll send it to you.
Great tetas story. Don't think I could deal with two new languages at this stage in the game, but as you say, at least you get some laughs out of it!


----------



## Normatheexdiva (Jan 29, 2009)

Ooh, yes please. 
Well, it was Castellano at first, but my neighbours insist on Galego, but lots of words are similar to English words, due to the Latin derivation. 
I can read the newspaper, but Galego has a big problem, in that there are no cursos for English/Galego eg; 'Teach Yourself'. 
There is a verb book and a dictionary. Nowt else - so far. 
Anles? A job for you. 
xxx



Pesky Wesky said:


> First stop is definitely to get the roof sorted. You'll probably notice such a difference after that that you'll forget all about insulation.
> I was afraid cork might be expensive. I don't _*think*_ the paper alternative was. If I ever find a reference I'll send it to you.
> Great tetas story. Don't think I could deal with two new languages at this stage in the game, but as you say, at least you get some laughs out of it!


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The degree of cold definitely varies according to area and can change quite dramatically within a few km. Frost and snow are unknown here, it seems, yet a couple of km inland and we've occasionally found frost when walking the dog in mid-morning.
Last winter we heated mainly with log fires and occasionally with the ac/heating but tbh if we had put on more layers of clothing we wouldn't have felt really cold. We heated more to make the house 'cheerful' than to heat it up, especially when it rained heavily for days on end.
On the few days when we really did feel cold we heated one room and camped out in it. It was usually the bedroom which is spacious and has tv and can serve as a reading and dining room.
I'm looking forward to autumn as the delights of temperatures in the high 30 -low 40C are beginning to wear off. So is Our Little Azor...


----------



## anles (Feb 11, 2009)

Normatheexdiva said:


> Ooh, yes please.
> Well, it was Castellano at first, but my neighbours insist on Galego, but lots of words are similar to English words, due to the Latin derivation.
> I can read the newspaper, but Galego has a big problem, in that there are no cursos for English/Galego eg; 'Teach Yourself'.
> There is a verb book and a dictionary. Nowt else - so far.
> ...


I hope that was a joke... I had never been so busy as I have been since I became "unemployed", I am at present doing a 25 hour a week course run by the INEM as well as trying to fit my classes in and three other little jobs I have. 
Dunno where the summer went... but I hope you and Mr. Exdiva are enjoying it.
xxx
PS: Remember about the summer officially ending on 15th of Sept...lol


----------



## Dave and Anne Galicia (Nov 15, 2008)

Hi again and sorry to have been so long. I’ve been busy felling a few trees for logs i.e. preparing for winter!!, Also been relaxing in the sun under a pure blue sky near the Costa da Morte at a comfortable temperature of 25 degrees. Too hot down south for us!!

Reading the various comments has been very interesting – thank you all very much. It’s nice to see our approach to winter survival is very similar to the majority. 

Our house is a stone house that we bought in May 2007. It had not been lived in for at least 10 years but had been partly renovated. The original wooden roof and floors had rotted and collapsed years ago and had been replaced with concrete construction and brick internal walls forming the rooms. There were no internal doors but the house had an aluminium front door and single glazed sliding windows There was no bathroom/toilet, drainage or water apart from a spring supply. The original lean-to next to the house had no roof and we had this converted to a single storey flat roof section of the house for a downstairs toilet/shower room, utility and workroom. This flat roof is now a terrace area accessed from upstairs.

For our first winter we had installed a log burner in the “Lareira”, bought a portable gas fire and a new electric blanket. Loads of warm clothing with us from UK including thermal underwear from winter walking in Scotland. I have fond memories of going around all the windows and front door with a sponge and a bucket to collect the condensation. We discovered the dehumidifier and why there is so much bleach sold here in the winter – to kill the mould growth.

Before buying the dehumidifier (we now have two) I did the bloke thing and researched on the internet. Relative humidity is interesting and I did wonder whether we would wake up one winter morning to find clouds on the ceiling and rain falling! They do say that our part of Galicia is a lump of wet granite poking out into the Atlantic! 

Second winter we had the extra dehumidifier, a cheapy convector heater and another portable gas fire. We had managed to change the older windows and now have double glazing throughout and internal wooden doors to replace the old sheets we had been using. Still had the aluminium front door and this seemed to collect more water than the dehumidifiers. Mondays was mould day and I spent a couple of hours, particularly in the single storey bit of the house wiping away merrily with a hat, gloves and protective goggles on. Probably good exercise, perhaps I should try it to Galician Pipe music!!

Last winter was much the same but we changed the old front door to a quality window and access to the house is now via the single storey bit. Log fire, two gas fires at times, dehumidifiers and lots of bleach. Thick curtain added across bottom of the stairs to keep heat in our main living area. Added a timer to the electric blanket to make sure it was on when we went to bed. Just love that electric blanket and forgetting to put it on was bad news! We also added a dog which probably produces more moisture than heat and is more expensive to run than a fancy electric radiator.

What next on the keeping warm front. Well if money was no object we would have the external stonework cleaned and pointed but that’s a load of dosh. That would help keep damp out. We would also look at insulating the inside of the external walls. It is of course always a lot easier and cheaper to buy another jumper. 

We are still pondering the use of electrical heating in what is now our lounge – I’ll start a new reply on that in a minute. Watch this space.


----------



## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Woodburners are wonderful things and I used them constantly in the U.K plus when I lived in France. I had hoped to have one when I moved to Spain but my daughter who runs one in winter tells me wood in the Alicante area is a horrendous price.
What is everyone paying for wood?

Thanks


----------



## Normatheexdiva (Jan 29, 2009)

We pay 250 euros for a big trailer load. This seems to be a good price and the only problem is stacking the damn stuff afterwards. 
xx




MaidenScotland said:


> Woodburners are wonderful things and I used them constantly in the U.K plus when I lived in France. I had hoped to have one when I moved to Spain but my daughter who runs one in winter tells me wood in the Alicante area is a horrendous price.
> What is everyone paying for wood?
> 
> Thanks


----------



## Normatheexdiva (Jan 29, 2009)

Lol. No beach trips after that. Mr Theexdiva has his revision tomorrow at the hospital for his thumb. After that, he'll probably be told to exercise it and keep on until the muscles become strong again.
We haven't been up to much. Just getting used to life with his various enfermedades and forcing him next door for coffee. 
The garden is good though. Excellent tomatoes and pimientos. I have 2 chilli plants if you want some jalapeno type chillies to grow in pots? 

xxx



anles said:


> I hope that was a joke... I had never been so busy as I have been since I became "unemployed", I am at present doing a 25 hour a week course run by the INEM as well as trying to fit my classes in and three other little jobs I have.
> Dunno where the summer went... but I hope you and Mr. Exdiva are enjoying it.
> xxx
> PS: Remember about the summer officially ending on 15th of Sept...lol


----------



## Dave and Anne Galicia (Nov 15, 2008)

The specific issue of electrical heating – we are considering something to provide a low background heat in our lounge but with the capacity to actually heat the room to a comfortable temperature if wanted. It’s a particularly damp room and subject to mould. We will probably need to run a dehumidifier as well.

Apologies, but if I can do the bloke thing and look at technical detail this link Emisores termoeléctricos - Leroy Merlin - Bricolaje, construcción, decoración, jardín covers most of what is available. 

I think there may be some confusion between “panel heaters” which are the relatively low wattage cement/fibre ones and the “ceramic panel” which are far more expensive. I think, as has been mentioned, the cheaper variety are OK for removing the chill but unless you install a lot of them, ineffective in really heating a room. 

There are also the oil filled Radiador de aceite and the allegedly more effective and far more expensive Emisor con fluido caloportador. 

I appreciate that Watts in = Watts out but there seems to be some technical justification for the more expensive solutions using the heat more effectively and therefore reducing the actual electrical consumption. Whether the cost to buy is justified in terms of the savings in running costs is another question. Certainly if you compared a simple and cheap 1000 watt electric fire the 1000 watt Emisor must be more economical in terms of running cost otherwise no one would buy them! I presume it’s all to do with the way the heating device stores, radiates and convects the heat.

Does anyone have specific experience or comment on the more expensive solutions?


----------



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

MaidenScotland said:


> Woodburners are wonderful things and I used them constantly in the U.K plus when I lived in France. I had hoped to have one when I moved to Spain but my daughter who runs one in winter tells me wood in the Alicante area is a horrendous price.
> What is everyone paying for wood?
> 
> Thanks


We pay 10€ for a standard (yellow) wheelbarrow stacked as high as possible with logs falling off it. I can just about get two of these in the boot of my car (Picasso). A wheelbarrowfull lasts about a week (open fire). I prefer to buy it this way as we have restricted storage (indoors next to the fire) and it's no hassle going to the wood yard every couple of weeks.

BTW Dave and Anne - I hope those logs burn OK - they should really be left to dry out for a year I believe.

BTW2 If you're wondering why the colour of the wheelbarrow is important:lol:, there are two standard wheelbarrows around here - green and yellow. Yellow ones are much bigger than green ones.


----------



## Dave and Anne Galicia (Nov 15, 2008)

MaidenScotland said:


> Woodburners are wonderful things and I used them constantly in the U.K plus when I lived in France. I had hoped to have one when I moved to Spain but my daughter who runs one in winter tells me wood in the Alicante area is a horrendous price.
> What is everyone paying for wood?
> 
> Thanks


A load around us is typically 200 - 300 euros and people seem to manage on two loads per "season"using their fire for 4/5 hours a day. There are of course lots of trees in Galicia!! The type of wood you use will of course affect the price. I think 200 euros would be for pine but I may be wrong - I often am.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

We paid 75 euros for a 'cubic metre'....we had two lots which lasted us from DEcember to March. I have no idea if that's good VFM.
The wood was Andalucian olive wood and 'cork oak', if I remember rightly.
Whatever, it came in massive logs and burnt slowly, throwing off a lot of heat......which floated up and away through our 'minstrels gallery' over the salon.
So we'll be using a gas heater if we need heating this winter.


----------



## Rofa (Dec 3, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> We paid 75 euros for a 'cubic metre'....we had two lots which lasted us from DEcember to March. I have no idea if that's good VFM.
> The wood was Andalucian olive wood and 'cork oak', if I remember rightly.
> Whatever, it came in massive logs and burnt slowly, throwing off a lot of heat......which floated up and away through our 'minstrels gallery' over the salon.
> So we'll be using a gas heater if we need heating this winter.


Currently pay 120 euro /tonne for almond. Fan wood burner just about copes heating 150sq m if I run it all night when temperatures drop to minus. Worst winter I used 9 tonnes but at times it was -9 C.
Walls are 1m thick and windows double glazed. Biggest problem is uninsulated roof space. New pitch roof is concrete (covered in tiles). The ceiling is formed of 1m sq yeso panels suspended from the roof by wires (and fixed by yeso of course), so the roof cavity is a sea of wires and totally inaccessible. Any suggestions for insulating welcome. Don't really fancy a false insulating ceiling unless it is very very light and can be bonded to existing ceiling. I really don'r trust the wires and the yeso bonding - occasionally imagine I hear a twang! Any foam blowing options into the roof space available?


----------



## country boy (Mar 10, 2010)

Each of those ceiling tiles will lift out (upwards) . You could line each one with 2" Polystyrene stuck on with non solvent filler?


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I think we paid 13 cents per kilo last year. You can get different prices depending on if stacking is included or not. My advice would be if you have a lot of -20year olds in the house, get them to do the stacking. If not get stacking included in the price! Apart from not being much fun, I have got some terrible spider bites on my stomach from stacking wood, so if you do it yourself, don't hold the wood against your body.
We get encina (holm oak??)which is a nice, slow burning, hard wood. Once we ran out and got pine. Awful! Burns too quickly and doesn't heat.


----------



## Normatheexdiva (Jan 29, 2009)

Depends where you are. It's more likely to be oak (roble or carballo). It hisses like mad, even when it's dry. The pine seems to be turned into planks more often. 
Pine cones are an excellent fire starter, but you have to be organised and collect them in summer and we aren't. Something awful or painful usually gets in the way and we forget. 
We don't have enough pension to buy much in advance and we also burn old Castaño, but it's a mucky flame.
xx




Dave and Anne Galicia said:


> A load around us is typically 200 - 300 euros and people seem to manage on two loads per "season"using their fire for 4/5 hours a day. There are of course lots of trees in Galicia!! The type of wood you use will of course affect the price. I think 200 euros would be for pine but I may be wrong - I often am.


----------



## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

(Iznajar) Olive, cut to size, is currently 6ec per kilo


----------



## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Thanks... I think my daughter is paying over the odds, does anyone have a contact for wood delivery in the Monforte del Cid area please?

Maiden


----------



## Dave and Anne Galicia (Nov 15, 2008)

Normatheexdiva said:


> Depends where you are. It's more likely to be oak (roble or carballo). It hisses like mad, even when it's dry. The pine seems to be turned into planks more often.
> Pine cones are an excellent fire starter, but you have to be organised and collect them in summer and we aren't. Something awful or painful usually gets in the way and we forget.
> We don't have enough pension to buy much in advance and we also burn old Castaño, but it's a mucky flame.
> xx



I presume then "carballo" is Gallego? Thats a relief as I thought some people around here were burning horses! I have great problems with proununciacion.

Anyone have experience of burning eucalyptus?


----------



## country boy (Mar 10, 2010)

Yes, we burn it all the time. It burns well and slowly but really needs some help, especially on a still night. We mix it with Olive. We also burn Almond and "Chocolate Tree" which are also slow. We even burn Agave and Broom, Broom smells delicious.


----------



## Normatheexdiva (Jan 29, 2009)

I haven't heard of anyone doing this - except what you see in forest fires in Australia, which is where the damn things came from. I think you may find them a bit incendiary...
Yes, that's Gallego. It's everywhere here, interspersed with Castañeiras. You see very large Eucalyptus trees at the edge of villages here. 
Try saying exercicios...it's more difficult than it looks. I love gallego, it's my ambition to speak it well, but since they reclassified the verbs, it's difficult to work out what is what. 
Antepreterito, copreterito, aargh. What happened to indefinativo and imperativo, futuro, conditional, it's so difficult to remember what they are called. 




Dave and Anne Galicia said:


> I presume then "carballo" is Gallego? Thats a relief as I thought some people around here were burning horses! I have great problems with proununciacion.
> 
> Anyone have experience of burning eucalyptus?


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Sounds like a lot of you are burning wood in open fires. I wonder if you have thought about installing a fireplace that closes, a "casete" I think it is in Spanish.
Thery are easier to light (no need for firelighters), give off more heat so are more efficient and you don't have a problem with smoke. Ours was already installed so we didn't have to think about it, but I'm glad we didn't have to!
Here's a link should you be interested
Casetes


----------



## country boy (Mar 10, 2010)

Not an open fire for us; it is a JOTUL, Norwegian Log Burner, simply the Rolls Royce of log burners. Well worth the money, it will burn anything and at a speed to suit the conditions

Jøtul F 602 - Jtul


----------



## Normatheexdiva (Jan 29, 2009)

Nope, not us. We have a woodburner with tubos - no chimney. There is a chimney, but it's for the bread oven and at the other end of the house and outside.
xxx




Pesky Wesky said:


> Sounds like a lot of you are burning wood in open fires. I wonder if you have thought about installing a fireplace that closes, a "casete" I think it is in Spanish.
> Thery are easier to light (no need for firelighters), give off more heat so are more efficient and you don't have a problem with smoke. Ours was already installed so we didn't have to think about it, but I'm glad we didn't have to!
> Here's a link should you be interested
> Casetes


----------



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Dave and Anne Galicia said:


> I presume then "carballo" is Gallego? Thats a relief as I thought some people around here were burning horses! I have great problems with proununciacion.
> 
> Anyone have experience of burning eucalyptus?


Something I put in our (open) fire spits like crazy. Good thing we don't have a carpet but the dog has started to smoulder a couple of times. I think it is eucalyptus which spits.


----------



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Sounds like a lot of you are burning wood in open fires. I wonder if you have thought about installing a fireplace that closes, a "casete" I think it is in Spanish.
> Thery are easier to light (no need for firelighters), give off more heat so are more efficient and you don't have a problem with smoke. Ours was already installed so we didn't have to think about it, but I'm glad we didn't have to!
> Here's a link should you be interested
> Casetes


That's the downside of renting. Our otherwise nearly perfect house would benefit greatly from a log burner and I would do it if I owned it. Anyway, we are moving shortly and the new place has a lovely welcoming log burner.


----------



## Rofa (Dec 3, 2009)

country boy said:


> Each of those ceiling tiles will lift out (upwards) . You could line each one with 2" Polystyrene stuck on with non solvent filler?


'Fraid they won't. They are made of yeso and very heavy - each is hung by 4 or five wires - there is no frame holding them up and there is then a very light skim of yeso over them covering the joints. Never seen anything so strange in my life.


----------



## country boy (Mar 10, 2010)

Ah!! Neither have I ....LOL Spain Innit!


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Rofa said:


> 'Fraid they won't. They are made of yeso and very heavy - each is hung by 4 or five wires - there is no frame holding them up and there is then a very light skim of yeso over them covering the joints. Never seen anything so strange in my life.


Isn't that a suspended ceiling???

I think that's what we had put in last year - of our own volition!


----------



## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Rofa said:


> 'Fraid they won't. They are made of yeso and very heavy - each is hung by 4 or five wires - there is no frame holding them up and there is then a very light skim of yeso over them covering the joints. Never seen anything so strange in my life.


That used to be the normal way of fitting them before the sectional bars arrived & is quite common around here . I had 3 ceilings like that ( still got 1 ) but you've obviously got the modern version with wire as all the panels used to be supported by horse hair dipped in yeso !! When I used to look into my lounge ceiling void it was like looking @ the underwater photos of the Titanic.


----------



## Rofa (Dec 3, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> That used to be the normal way of fitting them before the sectional bars arrived & is quite common around here . I had 3 ceilings like that ( still got 1 ) but you've obviously got the modern version with wire as all the panels used to be supported by horse hair dipped in yeso !! When I used to look into my lounge ceiling void it was like looking @ the underwater photos of the Titanic.


Well ain't I the lucky one to get a modern version! And I've got 8 of them - just have to live with it I guess. But I do love working with yeso so I'll have to have some understanding for the builder!


----------



## morlandg (Jun 8, 2008)

crc said:


> Murcia really it's 15 degrees, with some days it can go as low as 10 degrees, so I don't really need to prepare.


Have a look at this link - 
http://en.eltiempo.es/murcia.html


----------

