# Doctor moving to Australia



## netw (Aug 11, 2014)

Dear all.

We are thinking moving to Melbourne. My wife is a general practitioner and we have a couple of uncleared issues regarding assessment and eligibility to work as GP in Australia

She just cleared part 1 of 2 exams (MCQ) toward AMC certification and after that Medical Board fully registered GP.

-After granted fully registrar license from MB, can she work in any hospital as GP?

Meanwhile, she is doing a fellow/specialization for Dermatologist, 1st year, here in country where we are living now.

-After, moving to AU, can she continue the fellow in any colleague of Dermatology or fellow must start from the beginning?

Thank you for your help!


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## Scattley (Jul 30, 2012)

She will not be classed as a GP in Australia until she gets a fellowship which the program is a three year program and has only one intake a year. During the first 10 years she is here she will only be able to work as a GP in rural Australia and the training she will need to do for Fellowship must be taken rurally. She will also need to be a citizen prior to applying for the fellowship program either in GP or Dermatology....so that is another 4 years at least in the time line...but she will be able to get work in DWS hospitals only once she has passed the clinical exam (and for OTDs that's the hardest part....getting the required rotations). It's a long hard road for doctors now...they are the quickest group of unemployed people in the professions thanks to the massive increase in medical student places in Australian universities.


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## netw (Aug 11, 2014)

Thanks for reply.

As I know fellow is available even for permanent resident GPs. Pls, correct me if I am wrong. 
Is it mandatory taking fellow ONLY in rural hospitals for overseas graduates GPs? Sound a little bit strange.


P.S. on seek com au last week there were 18 jobs available in which only 30 people where applied for those jobs. Which means that does not had lot of interest.


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## netw (Aug 11, 2014)

Thanks for reply.

As I know fellow is available even for permanent resident GPs. Pls, correct me if I am wrong. 
Is it mandatory taking fellow ONLY in rural hospitals for overseas graduates GPs? Sound a little bit strange.


P.S. on seek com au last week there were 18 jobs available in which only 30 people where applied for those jobs. Which means that does not had lot of interest.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

Due to a lack of doctors in rural areas they can insist you carry out the work where they choose, they choose to fill the shortage in rural areas by insisting fellows undertake it. Its the same for teachers! 

As for only 30 people applying, how would you know only 30 people applied? You realise most dont use seek as a method of applying for jobs? If they do they will likely be rejected. Applications need to be specifically addressed and personalised not applied for with a CV by clicking a link on seek.


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## netw (Aug 11, 2014)

It really hearts reading these things about IMGs and Aussie integration process. Why they are continuing to deliver very expensive exams through AMC when they do not offer IMGs opportunity to work as GPs? 
-So IMGs must pass part 1 and 2 exams of AMC (at least 10k AUD, except cost of books/trainings, move and live/waiting)
-Do one year intern (which is very limited or none according to some forums)
-Taking registrar from AHPRA/Medical board (showing them all your career in details and CDPs)


If all of this is true, this is a shame for that system. They will lose very high skilled people that will be came with IMGs and others that have afraid if the same scheme may be applied even to their field in the near future!

What about integration process of IMGs on other countries like Canada, USA, UK, Switzerland, Germany and Belgium?


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## Scattley (Jul 30, 2012)

Netw...what you are missing is that in Australia and in the UK...a GP is a specialist..you need to complete training in this to work as a GP..you will not be considered a GP but a hospital doctor and GPs do not work in the hospital system but as an addition work as VMOs in hospitals on top of their GP work. In many countries where the IMGs. come from a GP is what you can do as soon as you qualify....that is not the case here. Every Australian citizen who wishes to become a GP has to pay huge fees for the exams...currently around 7k.. The AMC exams is only the equal of completing an Australian medical degree and given the high % of failure many countries do not have the same medical standard as here so that exam is critical. CPD points is required by every doctor regardless of which country they trained...it's expected that you continue to add skills. 

The Australian government is not actively recruiting doctors overseas...companies may be but not the government...but the government is allowing qualified doctors who wish to come here to work once they have proved themselves and if they are prepared to work in rural Australia.

I would like to point out that Australian fellowed GPS have to jumpy though many more hoops to work as a GP in the UK even though the fellowship program is almost identical....we also need to prove that our degrees are taught in English...which any Australian would tell you is "what else would it be taught in".

As mentioned above....seek is not an engine that doctors use. They use the division notices and magazines to identify jobs or apply directly to the practice. No one wants to work rurally because what you don't realise is if you work in a small town...you are not permitted to be outside of 30 minutes from the hospital or surgery at any time....unless you have another doctor covering you...and you can not drink alcohol. That means no going out for a meal or nipping to the next town to the shops..if you are a solo GP. It's a hard life which is why no one wants to do it.


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## netw (Aug 11, 2014)

Thank you very much for detailed reply. We think to try doctor career in Au anyway, even that we are reading many negative feedbacks from IMGs on different forums, no turning back 

Another things please, after achieving fellowship as GP or other speciality, is it possible working on metropolitan areas?

Is it possible doing fellow with RACGP on metropolotan or DWS areas?

Thank you very much for your help!


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## Scattley (Jul 30, 2012)

No you can only train in an RA2 area until you are fellowed and only in a DWS are IF you get an exemption from the department of health which from the text of the last budget it is going to be near impossible to get in future...of course there will be at least one if not two changes of government by the time you qualify so it might change. you need to work in an Ra2 region for training and all training program's I have had contact with enforce a strict movement through out regional centres and remote rural regions....so in training you have to move at least once. 

There is a need for rural doctors and that is what we are "importing" foreign doctors to train in...however hardly any of them are wanting to work outside the cities....so there is a very large number of qualified foreign doctors in the cities working in pharma sales and other careers.

You need to be in a RA2 for 10 years post general registration in Australia...but you can reduce it by 5 years if you work in the far removed rural remote regions like the mining town of Cobar. Then you can move into the metro area.


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## netw (Aug 11, 2014)

We are a couple that one (ICT) can find his work only in metropolitan areas and other (Doctor) can find only on remote or very remote places. So, only one of us can find a job in a place.
Does AU Gov make any exception for those cases? This is on behalf of both parts.


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## _shel (Mar 2, 2014)

No because te amount of people qualifying for such an exemption would be extremely high thus meaning there would be no point in having such a policy.

There is no reason why someone working in IT coudnt get a job. No not as abundant as in the city but they are there just on a different scale. Business still needs to operate, people live work and socialise in rural areas, hence the need to have doctors there. 

Couples would also usually assess who should work in their speciality based on their needs, income requirements, family to care for etc and one makes sacrifices for the needs of the family. Its what happens all over the world in al occupations and areas.


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## netw (Aug 11, 2014)

Thanks _shel.

Can we apply for intern year on all acredited Victorias hospitals?
Is intern year payable and what is median salary during intern year?


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## Scattley (Jul 30, 2012)

Only DWS hospitals and...I only know about NSW...E number of intern years for OTD has dropped from over 400 in 2012 to less than 45 in 2013...and I think it dropped even less this year with the majority in rural not DWS hospitals. We have an absolute drought of intern places and the priority system to get an intern placement is several rankings with OTD the absolute bottom...even international students are no longer given an intern year and expected to return to their home country to complete their degree...and that's after paying over 200k for university.

Intern places for all of 2015 close this or next week and are done mostly state based but APHRA can give you more information about this


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## anm (Apr 6, 2011)

How does it work for a specialist who has 4 years of experience after post graduation (radiology) in his home country - in this case INDIA 
Can we try for specialist pathway and avoid writing AMC 1&2 ?


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## Scattley (Jul 30, 2012)

One of the concerns is that some countries you specialise as soon as you finish your medical degree whereas in Australia there is 2+ addition general years where you gain experience in many areas....without this general experience you cannot do any specialty. The thought is a specialist is an add on....and without the "add" experience...the "on" is meaningless. So if your country does not do the general training the the AMC exams and experience is a must. That is only one of the reasons for enforcing this. You will need to contact them for your specific background...UK transfer of degree is much easier than non western/college training.


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## anm (Apr 6, 2011)

Scattley said:


> One of the concerns is that some countries you specialise as soon as you finish your medical degree whereas in Australia there is 2+ addition general years where you gain experience in many areas....without this general experience you cannot do any specialty. The thought is a specialist is an add on....and without the "add" experience...the "on" is meaningless. So if your country does not do the general training the the AMC exams and experience is a must. That is only one of the reasons for enforcing this. You will need to contact them for your specific background...UK transfer of degree is much easier than non western/college training.


I was told its worth a shot to go or the specialist pathway - approach the ranzcr college and give the technical interview - even if your are partially competent - you can work under supervision for a year and approach ranzcr for a revaluation - as I understand you are aiming to to work as a radiology resident here (maybe in dws or area of need) - seniors please correct me if I am wrong


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## anm (Apr 6, 2011)

Scattley said:


> One of the concerns is that some countries you specialise as soon as you finish your medical degree whereas in Australia there is 2+ addition general years where you gain experience in many areas....without this general experience you cannot do any specialty. The thought is a specialist is an add on....and without the "add" experience...the "on" is meaningless. So if your country does not do the general training the the AMC exams and experience is a must. That is only one of the reasons for enforcing this. You will need to contact them for your specific background...UK transfer of degree is much easier than non western/college training.


Also have had gp experience in India for 8years before post grad in radiology


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## gkc (Jul 18, 2018)

Hello all,
I am a pathologist in my country with 5 years experience. I have 189 visa. what are my chances of getting into the system for a registration?
Thank you.
GKC


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## ameermuhammad (Sep 10, 2018)

As I understand that it is tough to get internship after AMC exam, is there any other possible pathway to get into system like getting admission in certain courses there in Australia. I am not a doctor but I have a son who is in final year in medicine course,MBBS, in Pakistan. He got the dependent residency visa. In brief, Mumtaz question is that my son graduates in Pakistan as doctor and comes straight to Australia, what is the best pathway to integrate into system, even if I have to pay for his school or university further education or training.... Any help would be really appreciated.....


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