# Help please before my brain explodes!!



## SirBaron

Okay I am literally on the edge of a mental breakdown, so hoping you guys can help before I have a meltdown.

I am a UK national, Germany and English parents, I am engaged to a Japanese woman, and the plan is I am moving to Germany middle of next year. 

Now how do I go about, getting married in the UK, then both of us moving to Germany. 

From what I understand, which isn't a lot, the plan is she get's a marriage visitors license, we get married, after 5 months we then move to Germany.

Sounds simple, but I don't believe it is that simple, or there will be restrictions.

She is 32, I am 30, she has no prior marriages, clean record etc, and will be staying with me and my parents in the house, so we can easily support her until Germany, as the house is fairly large etc.

The things I am worried about is, if she is accepted (can't really see a reason why she wouldn't be) and she comes to the UK, we get married, and then are we able to move straight to Germany (if we apply for a visa there), or does she have to go straight back to Japan, then go to Germany? 

According to a website she can just come with me with a marriage certificate, I can just get a flight to Germany, and she has the same rights as me. 

surely it can't be as easy as that? 

For those wondering I have places to stay, and lots of family in Germany. So that's not a issue.

How does it work, if anyone has experience of this, or some good advice, tips, details that I may be missing, or neglected to mention because my head is fried, it would be much appreciated!! 

Thanks!!


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## Nononymous

If this fries your brain and puts you on the edge of a breakdown, moving to Germany is going to do you in.

Consult UK government web sites for requirements to marry a non-EEA national in the UK. It's pretty easy to find this information. You have to meet an income requirement, I believe, 18.6k pounds annually, and otherwise prove that the marriage isn't a sham.

Moving to Germany, you are exercising treaty rights so your non-EEA spouse can enter the country with you. To stay beyond 90 days you need to have a job and health insurance and all that. Plenty of information out there on what is required. Start by consulting German government web sites.


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## SirBaron

Nononymous said:


> If this fries your brain and puts you on the edge of a breakdown, moving to Germany is going to do you in.
> 
> Consult UK government web sites for requirements to marry a non-EEA national in the UK. It's pretty easy to find this information. You have to meet an income requirement, I believe, 18.6k pounds annually, and otherwise prove that the marriage isn't a sham.
> 
> Moving to Germany, you are exercising treaty rights so your non-EEA spouse can enter the country with you. To stay beyond 90 days you need to have a job and health insurance and all that. Plenty of information out there on what is required. Start by consulting German government web sites.


Financial Requirements are not needed for Marriage Tourist Visa.

I know there is plenty of information out there, but there's also conflicting information, which is why I wanted to ask people who have already gone through it.


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## ALKB

SirBaron said:


> Okay I am literally on the edge of a mental breakdown, so hoping you guys can help before I have a meltdown.
> 
> I am a UK national, Germany and English parents, I am engaged to a Japanese woman, and the plan is I am moving to Germany middle of next year.
> 
> Now how do I go about, getting married in the UK, then both of us moving to Germany.
> 
> From what I understand, which isn't a lot, the plan is she get's a marriage visitors license, we get married, after 5 months we then move to Germany.
> 
> Sounds simple, but I don't believe it is that simple, or there will be restrictions.
> 
> She is 32, I am 30, she has no prior marriages, clean record etc, and will be staying with me and my parents in the house, so we can easily support her until Germany, as the house is fairly large etc.
> 
> The things I am worried about is, if she is accepted (can't really see a reason why she wouldn't be) and she comes to the UK, we get married, and then are we able to move straight to Germany (if we apply for a visa there), or does she have to go straight back to Japan, then go to Germany?
> 
> According to a website she can just come with me with a marriage certificate, I can just get a flight to Germany, and she has the same rights as me.
> 
> surely it can't be as easy as that?
> 
> For those wondering I have places to stay, and lots of family in Germany. So that's not a issue.
> 
> How does it work, if anyone has experience of this, or some good advice, tips, details that I may be missing, or neglected to mention because my head is fried, it would be much appreciated!!
> 
> Thanks!!


After getting married on the marriage visitor visa, get your marriage certificate and head to Germany, get a place to stay, register your residence with the local municipality and make an appointment with the local Ausländerbehörde (preferably well within 90 days of arriving to limit the amount of papers you need to show) and apply for her residence card. It should arrive about three weeks later. 

Please not that you might have to have a few documents translated into German, so allow time for that.

As a Japanese national your wife doesn't need a visa to enter Germany, so no need to return to Japan first.

Are you looking to settle in Germany or to use the Surinder Singh route back to the UK?


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## SirBaron

ALKB said:


> After getting married on the marriage visitor visa, get your marriage certificate and head to Germany, get a place to stay, register your residence with the local municipality and make an appointment with the local Ausländerbehörde (preferably well within 90 days of arriving to limit the amount of papers you need to show) and apply for her residence card. It should arrive about three weeks later.
> 
> Please not that you might have to have a few documents translated into German, so allow time for that.
> 
> As a Japanese national your wife doesn't need a visa to enter Germany, so no need to return to Japan first.
> 
> Are you looking to settle in Germany or to use the Surinder Singh route back to the UK?


Thanks for the info, 

We will be settling in Germany permenantly. 


I will be applying for a German passport, my mother is dual nationality, however originally German. So according to my aunt in Germany I can apply for a German passport with full knowledge I will probably have to surrender my British passport. (not a issue) 

Is there are requirements or restrictions she will have? No issues like, she must have a job within 90 days or, must earn so much etc, otherwise she will fail the residence permit?

I know Germany has certain requirements like knowledge of German language etc, my German is rusty but I'm relearning it at the moment, and she is learning it via talking to me and books etc.


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## ALKB

SirBaron said:


> Thanks for the info,
> 
> We will be settling in Germany permenantly.
> 
> 
> I will be applying for a German passport, my mother is dual nationality, however originally German. So according to my aunt in Germany I can apply for a German passport with full knowledge I will probably have to surrender my British passport. (not a issue)
> 
> Is there are requirements or restrictions she will have? No issues like, she must have a job within 90 days or, must earn so much etc, otherwise she will fail the residence permit?
> 
> I know Germany has certain requirements like knowledge of German language etc, my German is rusty but I'm relearning it at the moment, and she is learning it via talking to me and books etc.




As you have a German parent you are already German and won't lose your British nationality. Even without a German parent, since 2007 Germans can acquire an EU nationality without having to renounce their German nationality.

You should just be aware of the following:

What I described in my earlier post applies to EU nationals exercising treaty rights in Germany.

As a German national you would fall under domestic German immigration law, which is stricter than EU law.

I am not 100% sure but I think Germany does not accept Surinder Singh to Germany (which you would be using, having exercised treaty rights in the UK) for dual nationals.

So, to keep things simple, you might want to wait with applying for a German passport until after your wife has permanent residence in Germany.


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## SirBaron

I see, that does make sense! Cheers 

Is there any prerequisite required for applying for residence permit?

I see conflicting info, that you both require a job, or you require so much cash etc 

I will be looking for work literally ASAP. 

Just worried that she won't be able to stay longer than 90 days which would cause a lot of issues for her.


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## Tellus

Yes, keep it simple because of your nationalities. No need for hassle, language tests are for migrants of non-EU states but not for Japanese, US, Oz, NZ etc...
Citizens from third countries

But in case of marriage could be better to fix in UK, Germany got a diff. family register law..
tons of notarized papers, translations, charges...


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## Bevdeforges

As the spouse of an EU national, your wife falls under the EU regulations that allow a non-EU spouse to join their EU spouse, and once registered, she is entitled to all the same rights and privileges as you are as an EU national in Germany.

However, as the spouse of an German national, she falls under very different German laws - which will probably require her to return to Japan to get a visa for the spouse of a German national. I'd go very slowly about claiming that German nationality - at least until you are settled in and she is registered as the spouse of an EU national. 

You can register your presence at the local Rathaus (in fact, I think you're required to do so) as soon as you have a place to live. They can probably tell you about registering your wife as the spouse of an EU national, but at most it may require you to offer some proof of what you're doing in Germany. (That's how it works here in France, but I'm told that France is pushing the limits of what the EU regs require. It should be somewhat easier in Germany.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## ALKB

SirBaron said:


> I see, that does make sense! Cheers
> 
> Is there any prerequisite required for applying for residence permit?
> 
> I see conflicting info, that you both require a job, or you require so much cash etc
> 
> I will be looking for work literally ASAP.
> 
> Just worried that she won't be able to stay longer than 90 days which would cause a lot of issues for her.


https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/324282/en/

To apply for a residence card as a family member of an EU national these are the requirements:

Within 90 days of arrival:

- marriage certificate

- residence certificate (you get that when registering at the local municipality, that can be a Rathaus or a separate Meldeamt, depending on the size of the town/city. Invest a few Euro into the A4 paper certificate as this is sturdier than the free flimsy thing they routinely provide. This certificate is your proof of address in lieu of a national ID card. You need to carry it with you!)

- valid passport

- biometric photo

- fees for printing the residence card


After 90 days of arrival:

all of the above plus

- proof of exercising treaty rights (you working or studying full time) or being self sufficient financially

- proof of health insurance

So it really pays off to get things sorted within 90 days!

As the spouse of an EU national, your wife does not need to show German language skills. Ever.

BUT! She is also not entitled (or obliged to) attend the year-long integration course which is more or less an intensive language course for free (the €1 that the participant has to pay per lesson is refunded upon completion of the course). She may take part in a course if there are places but she will have to pay the full cost.

Where are you headed in Germany?


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## SirBaron

Sorry for late reply been so busy! 

Will be heading to emsburen, though I will be living with my parents, we are doing split house sharing. 

It says I will need a job within 90 days, if for example I don't get a job that fast. (though I hope I do by that point), will she get removed. I won't be relying on the state or anything as my parents will be supporting me. Does that count towards the self sufficient part instead of requiring a job?


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## ALKB

SirBaron said:


> Sorry for late reply been so busy!
> 
> Will be heading to emsburen, though I will be living with my parents, we are doing split house sharing.
> 
> It says I will need a job within 90 days, if for example I don't get a job that fast. (though I hope I do by that point), will she get removed. I won't be relying on the state or anything as my parents will be supporting me. Does that count towards the self sufficient part instead of requiring a job?


Try to apply for the residence card as soon as possible and before the 90 days are up!

They are not monitoring spouses of EEA nationals - the only trouble you might face is when applying for benefits or when applying for an indefinite permit for your wife after five years but even then you can say that you were self-sufficient. 

Careful that you have health insurance for your entire time in Germany!


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## SirBaron

ALKB said:


> Try to apply for the residence card as soon as possible and before the 90 days are up!
> 
> They are not monitoring spouses of EEA nationals - the only trouble you might face is when applying for benefits or when applying for an indefinite permit for your wife after five years but even then you can say that you were self-sufficient.
> 
> Careful that you have health insurance for your entire time in Germany!


The requirement of having to have a job within 90 days is causing me a bit of stress. If it was upto me I'd be working day 1 of my arrival. 

However it's never that easy. I'm a unskilled worker and that's what worries me, there's plenty of unskilled people, who speak far better German than I. 

I've worked in various retail like Aldi, co-op, and also in factories like Amazon, and some lesser known places. 

How easy is it likely to be to get a job I don't care what it is, I'm not one of these people that think certain jobs are beneath me, I'll do anything ad long as it pays. 

Lingen and Rheine are the biggest places near me. 

I see people who say they have been looking for a year and no job etc and it makes me worried that I won't be able to do it within 90 days and she will get deported.


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## ALKB

SirBaron said:


> The requirement of having to have a job within 90 days is causing me a bit of stress. If it was upto me I'd be working day 1 of my arrival.
> 
> However it's never that easy. I'm a unskilled worker and that's what worries me, there's plenty of unskilled people, who speak far better German than I.
> 
> I've worked in various retail like Aldi, co-op, and also in factories like Amazon, and some lesser known places.
> 
> How easy is it likely to be to get a job I don't care what it is, I'm not one of these people that think certain jobs are beneath me, I'll do anything ad long as it pays.
> 
> Lingen and Rheine are the biggest places near me.
> 
> I see people who say they have been looking for a year and no job etc and it makes me worried that I won't be able to do it within 90 days and she will get deported.


Well, you can stay for six months as a jobseeker but in order for your non-EEA family to be able to stay/get a residence card you'd need a job within 90 days. Unless you have already applied/received the cards?

Since last November and a ruling of the European Court, things seem to be getting tougher in Germany for EU nationals. There was a huge influx from new member states and some areas are really struggling. A friend of my mother's is a primary teacher and from one day to the next she had 60(!!) new children in her school, none spoke any German or had any money for school books, which have to be bought by parents if not on benefits. As the children had just arrived, their families were not eligible and the school simply had to deal with the situation which did not work very well for anybody. This kind of thing. people are getting a bit grumpy and that shows in how things are dealt with.

To be honest, I don't know how easy or hard it is to get an unskilled job in Germany. Have you tried hotel/restaurant kitchens or fast food chains? You don't have to stay in such a job for long, just to get the application going and to get you into the health insurance system. Then you can look for something nicer elsewhere?

Good luck!


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## SirBaron

Can you apply early? If so what are the requirements for that?


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## ALKB

SirBaron said:


> Can you apply early? If so what are the requirements for that?


What do you mean by "early"? Are you in Germany? If yes, when did you arrive? Is your wife with you?


https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/324282/en/

To apply for a residence card as a family member of an EU national these are the requirements:

*Within 90 days of arrival:*

- marriage certificate (translated into German)

- residence certificate (you get that when registering at the local municipality, that can be a Rathaus or a separate Meldeamt, depending on the size of the town/city. Invest a few Euro into the A4 paper certificate as this is sturdier than the free flimsy thing they routinely provide. This certificate is your proof of address in lieu of a national ID card. You need to carry it with you!)

- valid passport of your wife

- your ID

- biometric photo of your wife

- fees for printing the residence card

Please note that the authorities in rural areas might nearly never deal with cases like yours and you should probably print out the relevant parts of the directive of free movement and be ready to show them the EU law. Argue with the supervisor if need be.


*After 90 days of arrival:
*
all of the above plus

- proof of exercising treaty rights (you working or studying full time) or being self sufficient financially

- proof of health insurance

So it really pays off to get things sorted within 90 days!

As the spouse of an EU national, your wife does not need to show German language skills. Ever.

Why are you in some village? With a non-EEA spouse and in need of finding a job I would always stick to bigger towns or better cities. Germans who have all the local knowledge and contacts are struggling to get jobs in rural areas!


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## SirBaron

Because most of my German family lives there. My cousin owns a fairly large house that's converted into 2 apartments, and I'm living in one of them rent free until I get a job.

It's a fairly small place but Rheine and Lingen arn't too far away.


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## ALKB

SirBaron said:


> Because most of my German family lives there. My cousin owns a fairly large house that's converted into 2 apartments, and I'm living in one of them rent free until I get a job.
> 
> It's a fairly small place but Rheine and Lingen arn't too far away.


Rheine and Lingen are tiny. Free rent is great but it is not always worth it.

I'd try nothing smaller than Osnabrück. If you don't speak German, your chances of getting a job are higher proportionate to the size of the local expat community.

So when did you arrive in Germany and is your wife with you?


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## SirBaron

ALKB said:


> Rheine and Lingen are tiny. Free rent is great but it is not always worth it.
> 
> I'd try nothing smaller than Osnabrück. If you don't speak German, your chances of getting a job are higher proportionate to the size of the local expat community.
> 
> So when did you arrive in Germany and is your wife with you?


It wont be until August the 3rd that we arrive in Germany, and she will be arriving at the same time.

ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsch, aber es ist ein wenig rau. I will try Osnabruck it's only 45min by car from Emsburen.

My cousin gave me some links to Agency's some of which his friends use. Hoping I can get just a basic job.


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## ALKB

SirBaron said:


> It wont be until August the 3rd that we arrive in Germany, and she will be arriving at the same time.
> 
> ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsch, aber es ist ein wenig rau. I will try Osnabruck it's only 45min by car from Emsburen.
> 
> My cousin gave me some links to Agency's some of which his friends use. Hoping I can get just a basic job.


Well, that sounds much better already  Even a little bit of German will really help when looking for a job and I am sure you will improve rapidly once there.

Try to get a job as soon as possible and keep evidence of your efforts trying to find employment in case the Ausländerbehörde asks to see anything.

Try to apply as soon as possible for your wife's Aufenthaltskarte, within 90 days of arrival you can apply as a jobseeker.


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