# FM3: income reqd and validation of that income?



## valenciana (Mar 1, 2009)

What is the current income requirement, per person, required to be proven before an FM3 can be granted?

Is the amount the same regardless of the “FM3 type” being applied for? In our own case (with wife as dependent), I am considering whether I should apply for an FM3 which allows me to give private English classes (am fully qualified for this) and it’s also possible that I might do some academic research through a Mexican university (i.e. I’d be a part-time student).

Is the amount “flexible” i..e. could the authorities choose to ask for more, or might they be satisfied with less?

_How is the monthly/yearly amount demonstrated? _I’m guessing that bank statements would be needed but wouldn’t that kind of “proof” be open to manipulation? For example, who’s to know whether an amount shown as credited to an account is actually _income_, or whether it’s going in from another account in the applicant’s name (or, indeed, in someone else’s name) and is in reality is a capital transfer? 

Useful input much appreciated.


----------



## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Your most accurate source of information will be Mexican Immigration but here's the general idea:
The income requirement is based on a multiple of the basic daily minimum wage. At the present exchange rate, that means something like $1000 USD. A year ago, it ranged from $1100 to $1300 as the exchange rate varied. Half that amount will be required for a dependent. Now, if you own your home in Mexico, they may reduce the amount by up to 50% but that isn't guaranteed. Each Mexican Consulate in the USA will have their own interpretation of the requirements, as may the immigration officials at your destination. That said, retirees usually have no issues because they have investments and social security. Others will have to show, using bank statements, an income flow sufficient to support themselves in Mexico. 
There are many FM3 categories and the requirements will differ. You'll have to discuss that with Immigration or a Consulate. However, you can't just hang out a sign and start teaching. That's against the immigration rules. You will need to have a job commitment and the cooperation of the employer to get permission to work on your FM3. Note that there is no general permission, it is very specific as to job and location. You may only have one status at a time. Mexico does protect its workforce. The good new is that there do seem to be openings for qualified English teachers who are native speakers, especially with TEFL certification. You'll need to make contact with the likely schools and universities. Don't expect a very big paycheck.


----------



## valenciana (Mar 1, 2009)

RVGRINGO, Thanks for this advice. May I make a couple of points?

1. Investment income and income from social security would need to be "proven", wouldn't it, perhaps by showing that income from those sources is going into a bank account? We will have some income from property rental, a state pension and a bit of (rapidly decreasing) interest on cash deposits. However, I wouldn't expect the guy/lady at imigracion to take our word for that.

2. I was particularly thinking of _private_ English classes (which might be known as "tutoring"), for which -my impression was- there is a specific FM3 category. 

3. Do you have any view on my last question in my post (from the second half of the first line of the last paragraph, to the end)?


----------



## AcapulcoGringo (Mar 1, 2009)

youll have to proove by showing bank statements that show that much going in each month, etc.. it varies and you will have to proove to the extent the agent wishes you to proove! I have had friends tell me from each sprectrem either how easy or difficult it was.. depending on who they got at the imigration office...

it will be very hard to tutor for yourself, because you need a sponsor, so to speak, here in mexico ( a mexican employer) that can proove that the skills you bring is not founf in mexico withinin the mexican workpool.


----------



## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

On the last question; "who's to know?" could very well be open to interpretation by the immigration official who processes your application. Beyond that, I can't answer further because there is always variability in Mexico in the interpretation of laws and rules, as AcapulcoGringo has indicated. I imagine that much of that has to do with your age, appearance, tatoos (a 'no-no' in Mexico for employment), manner of dress, attitude, etc.


----------



## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

RVGRINGO said:


> On the last question; "who's to know?" could very well be open to interpretation by the immigration official who processes your application. Beyond that, I can't answer further because there is always variability in Mexico in the interpretation of laws and rules, as AcapulcoGringo has indicated. I imagine that much of that has to do with your age, appearance, tatoos (a 'no-no' in Mexico for employment), manner of dress, attitude, etc.


This whole question of income requirements is, like everything else associated with Mexican bureaucracy, very confusing. Why a federal program would be open to different interpretation from one Mexican government office to another boggles the mind. 
The last time I checked with the Mexican consulate in Vancouver....perhaps 18 months ago...the monthly income requirement was $1500 for the applicant and an additional $500 for a dependent....(i.e. for my wife).....total $2000/mo.
The consulate contact didn't know if this was in US or Canadian funds, even though, depending on the current exchange rate, that can be an extremely important question if a couple's net income is close to that $2000/month figure. The consulate was, however, able to confirm that the income requirement refers to net monthly income, not gross....but I suppose that interpretation could vary from month-to-month, from office-to-office, and from official-to-official as well. 
Then, in a typically Mexican response, the woman at the consulate suggested I just drive to Vancouver and apply anyway.....knowing that I live 500 kilometers away. In other words, I should pay to obtain police reports, get bank statements for the last 3 months, (whether or not those statements had to be translated into Spanish no one seemed to know), a letter from our doctor, copies of birth certificates, etc., etc., .....drive 1000 km roundtrip.....and HOPE they decided to issue FM3's for us. 

Even more frustrating is the possibility that one could sell their Canadian or US home on the assumption they will qualify for an FM3, only to have the application turned down. What the heck would you do then??

(You couldn't hold off selling your Canadian or US home until you had obtained that first FM3, because you have only 30 days to actually enter Mexico after the date of issue of the FM3......clearly not enough time to sell a home, particularly in this real estate market. In that case you would have to get your FM3, go to Mexico right away, then return home on some later date and try selling your home.)

Another fear is that you might qualify for the initial FM3, then fail to qualify for renewal a year later because the exchange rates had changed and you now don't meet the income requirement. Or the stock market continues to tank and your monthly income from investments has dropped through the floor. 

Or, you get the initial FM3, decide later to purchase a home in Mexico, then find, on renewing the FM3 a year later, that the immigration officer decides not to reduce the income requirement. (You did say, RVGRINGO: "Now, if you own your home in Mexico, they may reduce the amount by up to 50% but that isn't guaranteed.")

So, what to do? Aaaaaah !


----------



## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

You don't need to prove where the deposits come from (altho they often indicate on statement), what you need is proof the account is yours. Immigration here wanted a canceled check and/or a letter from the bank. Before my SSI started I just transferred money from one account to the other to show steady income


----------



## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

> Even more frustrating is the possibility that one could sell their Canadian or US home on the assumption they will qualify for an FM3, only to have the application turned down. What the heck would you do then??


Another of many reasons to not get your FM3 up north. Come in on an FMT and you have 6 months to get settled and figure things out.

If you have a house to sell .... income is not an issue


----------



## elchante (Dec 22, 2008)

sparks said:


> You don't need to prove where the deposits come from (altho they often indicate on statement), what you need is proof the account is yours. Immigration here wanted a canceled check and/or a letter from the bank. Before my SSI started I just transferred money from one account to the other to show steady income


Sparks, when you say you transferred money from one account to the other, do you mean from an account in one bank to an account in a different bank? Or do you mean you transferred money from your savings account into your checking account in the same bank? (i'm in the same boat right now until my SSI starts in November.) 

thanks!


----------



## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Consulates are not Immigration, nor are they Customs. They simply try to give answers but are often in error or simply practicing CYA. As such, you will find differences from one consulate to another; although you must use the one closest to your home if you use one at all, and that isn't necessary unless you plan on a large shipment of household goods (very expensive!) and need a 'menaje de casa'. Most folks find it more fun and much more economical to bring a load or two by SUV or Van and start anew in Mexico. 
The requirement for income is based on Mexican Pesos, not foreign currency. I have never heard of anyone inquiring as to 'net or gross'. You are starting to discover that the Mexican official standing before you always thinks that he is 'the law'. Never argue with that, but be ready to smile and go elsewhere if necessary.
There is no concern, in Mexico, about how often you might have to return, or how much time it takes from your normal routine. That is a cultural aspect that you must learn to accept with grace.
By the way, If you apply for your FM3 in Mexico, as we do here in Chapala, there is no requirement for doctor's reports, police reports, etc. Just the usual passport, FMT, income statements and proof of address in Mexico. You'll have to do the latter process anyway if you get an FM3 outside of Mexico. You must register it in Mexico within 30 days of crossing the border.
If you are committed to moving to Mexico, just do it. Come on an FMT and apply for your FM3 when you get here. Unless there are serious concerns about the income requirements you will have no problem getting one. Of course, if you purchase a home in Mexico, the requirement may be less. As long as you maintain the appearance of an income stream or sufficient investment funds to carry you for another year, you won't be likely to have any trouble getting the annual renewal.
Actually, if you could support the higher cost and income requirements for an FM2 for five years, you could then apply for 'Inmigrado' status which has no further income or renewal requirements; however, you would have to remove a foreign plated vehicle from the country and replace it with a Mexican plated car.
I've never run into anyone who has experienced all of the problems that seem to worry you. So, do your arithmetic and come on down if it meets the requirements. If you are 'skating on thin ice' you should probably delay until you feel more comfortable.
One should not move to Mexico with a 'boggled mind'.
Buena suerte.


----------



## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

elchante said:


> Sparks, when you say you transferred money from one account to the other, do you mean from an account in one bank to an account in a different bank? Or do you mean you transferred money from your savings account into your checking account in the same bank? (i'm in the same boat right now until my SSI starts in November.)
> 
> thanks!


I simply put 10k in my Paypal account (when they were paying 5%) and sent myself (free service) $1000 a month for the 3 months before applying (you only need 3 months).

You probably could get by with savings to checking if you only show them records from one .... but you never know how closely they look. I've also heard balance of something like $12-15k may work but I've not tried it


----------



## valenciana (Mar 1, 2009)

Hi RVGRINGO,

In our own case the following is key:

_you would have to remove a foreign plated vehicle from the country and replace it with a Mexican plated car._

That does not seem to include changing the plates on a foreign vehicle (keeping that same vehicle in Mexico but on Mexican plates). We would seriously consider going straight for an FM2, especially in view of your comment that after five years there is no further income or renewal requirement, but the vehicle we have is one we'd like to hang on to for the long term.

By the way, what is CYA?

Sparks mentioned "proving the bank account is yours"; well, maybe I'm just a simple guy but I'd have thought that names which corresponded to names on other personal documents, especially in the case of statements for a joint account, would suit even the most bureaucratic bureaucrat just fine.


----------



## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

> Sparks mentioned "proving the bank account is yours"; well, maybe I'm just a simple guy but I'd have thought that names which corresponded to names on other personal documents, especially in the case of statements for a joint account, would suit even the most bureaucratic bureaucrat just fine.


What makes sense to you does not always fit with Mexican rules. I left out 'original statements' as part of proof but as I had opted for Online Statments long ago I had none. Even with downloaded PDF files with color and bank logo .... they still wanted what they considered proof

Also you should able to edit posts rather than adding additionals


----------



## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Some immigration officials will require 'originals' of bank statements, or a letter from the financial institution; others don't. As Sparks has indicated, not everything in Mexico will 'fit' your NoB (north of the border) mindset.
For example: You may not simply register your vehicle in Mexico and get license plates. When you enter the country, you get a 'temporary importation' sticker and documents (guard them carefully) for your vehicle, which MUST leave the country with you if you are on an FMT. If you have an FM2/3, you may travel outside of Mexico without your car, as long as you maintain your Mexican immigration status. To formally and permanently import your vehicle into Mexico, in order to get Mexican license plates in the state where you reside, is difficult and expensive; sometimes impossible even if it is a NAFTA manufactured vehicle. At present, they are requiring the original 'Certificate of Origin' which, of course, is virtually impossible to obtain. You can see that the reason is to drastically reduce the number of older cars in Mexico (pollution) and to protect Mexican car dealers. Please realize that a whole lot of auto manufacturers are located in Mexico. So, if you were to become 'Inmigrado' or a naturalized citizen, you would first have to remove your foreign plated car from Mexico; permanently. You would then be prohibited from driving a foreign plated car, even owned by another, unless the owner was in the passenger seat.
CYA means 'Cover Your A.......er....Backside.


----------



## valenciana (Mar 1, 2009)

Hi RV ******,

Unnecessary in your view, though since [email protected] doesn't mean FM2, for example, necessary in mine. So perhaps that might be "unnecessary, in my opinion.”

Btw I’m not from “north of the border’, but whether from S, E or W of it, still think that a name or names on an original bank statement which agreed with the name(s) on other personal documents (such as a passport or driving licence) would normally satisfy the most zealous and bureaucratic bureaucrat.


----------



## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Valenciana,
Please note that I edited your post to correct the FM2 typo error. You, as the original poster, also have that capability if you press the 'EDIT' button at the bottom of your post. When the screen changes, you may make the necessary corrections and then 'Save' them.
Once I had made the correction, your further posts were no longer necessary and were deleted to save space and reading time for others who might be following the thread. Sparks had already suggested that to you.
Unfortunately, what you or I 'think' does not enter into the equation when any Mexican official is dealing with a request, as Sparks has also confirmed. To confront him, with what you think, will usually lead to further 'complications.' That's just the way it is; he has the authority. Hopefully, if you follow the experiences of others who have gone before you, you will avoid difficulties and have a more enjoyable experience of your own.


----------



## synthia (Apr 18, 2007)

I looked up the income requirement a few months ago and it is defined as 250 x minimum wage in Mexico City, which I thought was interesting.


----------



## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

From RVGRINGO: "By the way, If you apply for your FM3 in Mexico, as we do here in Chapala, there is no requirement for doctor's reports, police reports, etc. Just the usual passport, FMT, income statements and proof of address in Mexico. "

Thanks. That certainly sounds like the best way to go about this. (Of course that doesn't mean the requirements aren't different in Zihuatanejo than they are in Chapala. See? I'm learning.) 

As far as proof of address, I understand that can be a hotel or apartment where one is staying temporarily.

Sparks: Not sure what you mean by: "If you have a house to sell .... income is not an issue."


----------



## valenciana (Mar 1, 2009)

_As far as proof of address, I understand that can be a hotel or apartment where one is staying temporarily._

This comment by HolyMole, above, is really interesting and important, and has I think been discussed recently on this forum. Having a fixed abode before making an FM3 application can easily present a problem: "I want to be in Mexico long-term but I'm not yet sure where". 

If a hotel or apartment address is indeed OK, this could for some be a great advantage. Is there a way of confirming this?


----------



## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

I doubt you would stay in a hotel for months .... but apartments are not a problem. An electric or telephone bill or rental contract in your name is proof. You can also go to the local Delegacion and for a small fee they will issue a constancia de domicilio

If you change addresses you are supposed to notify immigration within 30 days


----------



## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

sparks said:


> I doubt you would stay in a hotel for months .... but apartments are not a problem. An electric or telephone bill or rental contract in your name is proof. You can also go to the local Delegacion and for a small fee they will issue a constancia de domicilio
> 
> If you change addresses you are supposed to notify immigration within 30 days


In Zihuatanejo, anyway, it's quite common to stay in a hotel for extended periods of 4 - 6 months at fairly reasonable rates..... comparable to renting an apartment, but without the hassle of utility bills, etc. In fact, most short-term apartment renters there would not pay utility bills at all....they would likely be included in the monthly rent. This is a pretty key point in the whole FM3 business, because many potential expats don't have a firm idea as to where in Mexico they might want to rent or buy at the time they apply for their first FM3. 

In an earlier post in this thread, you mentioned you had elected to receive only on-line statements from your bank, but that these were not acceptable to Immigration. What did you do?

(And you didn't explain your statement: "If you have a house to sell....income is not an issue." Am I missing something important here?)


----------



## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Before you apply for an FM3 you might ask your bank for copies of your previous three statements and ask that they stamp them with something that has the bank's logo. These days, the bank copies and the ones you get online are actually identical.
When you apply for the FM3, simply use the address and receipts from wherever you are renting, no matter if it is a hotel, B&B or a mansion.
It is all pretty straight forward and you shouldn't worry so much about being rejected. The worse thing that can happen is that they will ask you for some other documentation and you will be given sufficient time to obtain it by mail, if necessary.


----------



## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Before you apply for an FM3 you might ask your bank for copies of your previous three statements and ask that they stamp them with something that has the bank's logo. These days, the bank copies and the ones you get online are actually identical.
When you apply for the FM3, simply use the address and receipts from wherever you are renting, no matter if it is a hotel, B&B or a mansion.
It is all pretty straight forward and you shouldn't worry so much about being rejected. The worse thing that can happen is that they will ask you for some other documentation and you will be given sufficient time to obtain it by mail, if necessary.


----------

