# TERMINATION of an Employee



## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

Hi Folks,

A Brit colleague at work was terminated today. It was a sad news.

I am trying to help this guy the best I can. However, I do not know much of what one is supposed to do under theses circumstances

He has been working for a little bit more than 8 months and he was not confirmed.

He shared that he has loans and such and he is afraid that his bank account will get frozen. By the way, he works in the public sector. His termination states that he will get two salaries and that's it.

Any suggestions ?

Thanks a lot.


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## Bigjimbo (Oct 28, 2010)

Canuck_Sens said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> A Brit colleague at work was terminated today. It was a sad news.
> 
> ...


This happened to me. What i did was go to the bank, and immediately withdraw all the funds there, as they can and do freeze the account as the last paycheck states on it that it is the final salary. If it is the same bank that issued the loan then he could be in trouble. 

What line of work is he in? I know there's not much happening in certain sectors but there are still jobs out there. If he does suspect that he is going to default on the loan then tough call........


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

Bigjimbo said:


> This happened to me. What i did was go to the bank, and immediately withdraw all the funds there, as they can and do freeze the account as the last paycheck states on it that it is the final salary. If it is the same bank that issued the loan then he could be in trouble.
> 
> What line of work is he in? I know there's not much happening in certain sectors but there are still jobs out there. If he does suspect that he is going to default on the loan then tough call........


Thanks man, he read your comment right here on my screen. He has the loan with the same bank. I guess he lost the two pay checks. Tough call.


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## Gavtek (Aug 23, 2009)

Bank accounts are usually frozen if someone dies aren't they? Why did they kill him?


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

He's been in the company for only 8 months, on probation and managed to get a loan? Wow!

Has he been in the UAE for long? If he has, then he probably knows what the deal is out here. I'm afraid there is nothing much that you can do other than provide good references and get the word out that he's looking for a job.


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## Fatenhappy (Jun 23, 2009)

Canuck_Sens said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> A Brit colleague at work was terminated today. It was a sad news.
> 
> ...


Was he to be employed for a defined period of time? (by which I mean contractually for a year or two or three year period etc) If he was tell him to have a good look at Article 115 of the UAE labor Law ... Makes for good reading under these circumstances, where as the employer has to support the empoyee if he has debts for a minimum of the equivalent to 3 months of his basic salary.

Don't take my word for it just google up UAE Labor Law Articles and there you go?

I know as I have just been through this almost identical situation !!! ... 

He is also entitled to a pro rata rate of the 21 day annually accrued labor payment ... once again have a look at the UAE Labor Laws. !!!

Most employers will back down when they know you are aware of these.


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

Folks,

As I said earlier, he was int he public sector Federal GVt and the labour law has no powers in our "jurisdiction" that's actually written in the federal law that created us.

There is no doubt that he was living beyond his means. The best that we cand o is to give him advise of what he can do.

He got the loans without the confirmation. Indeed, he took a chance. His choice.

I do not hink there is much that he can do. If he does not find a job soon; there is a travel ban coming soon


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## pamela0810 (Apr 5, 2010)

Its nice of you to try and help him Canuck. I hope things work out for him.


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## DubaiATC (Jun 26, 2010)

Canuck_Sens said:


> If he does not find a job soon; there is a travel ban coming soon


Does this mean that he will be banned from leaving the country (at least until his debt is paid in full)?? I am against people doing a "runner" but what good does it do to hold someone here if they have no source of income?


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

This is the facts of life in the uae. Once you are banned, and there is a case against you, I believe they take up your passport. Not sure :confused2: about if they give you it back to get a visa to work when trying to get a job. 

Is easier to sort once you are out of country if you do not believe you are going to find a job that will enable you to stay in country and pay your responsibilities from here. Never want someone to do a runner but cant pay 'bills' anywhere without a job. 

Maybe it is time for a world wide credit system/profile... so people cant do runners and have no 'responsibility' because they will never go back to that country?


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## EXPAT09 (Sep 11, 2009)

*Am i missing smthing?*

Why would you not wanna pay your loans? what if you get a job later here?

I always thought if you do not pay your loans here - and leave - in the future you might not enter ???


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

DubaiATC said:


> Does this mean that he will be banned from leaving the country (at least until his debt is paid in full)?? I am against people doing a "runner" but what good does it do to hold someone here if they have no source of income?


 The system is designed to transfer the risk to the people-us. Neither the government nor the private sector will incur to any risk whatsoever.

As a foreigner there is nothing holding you in the country. You do not have benefits because after all it is a free tax country and therefore the society does not sponsor the government for programs like unemployment insurance.

when you come here you are expected to live smart. Gotta understand the big picture and save. Live beyond your means is a risk you take.

I feel sorry for him because the system is designed like that and all of us should know better...

However, I am not ok with the way the system works and there is room for improvements. Just bring secured lending in 100% CASH and that thing will stop. you will stop seeing people going to jail because of unemployment and lack of income.

Put secured lending and you will see a stop in credit card defaults.

Does secured lending sucks ? It does, but given the way the liability works here there is no better way.

Imagine if we had secured lending for everything. If you were to get fired you are covered; you can leave/live in peace. When you loose your job your emotions are there; you cannot think right, can you ?

and why in HELL did the bank give out the laons without the freaking confirmation? Banks have along way to go in terms of managing risks.

There are people there getting access to funds who are not supposed to and they end up paying the price for this. These people dont have the knowledge about what their creditworthiness really is & SURPRISINGLY they rely on the banks to tell them; that's their freaking job!!!


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

EXPAT09 said:


> Why would you not wanna pay your loans? what if you get a job later here?
> 
> I always thought if you do not pay your loans here - and leave - in the future you might not enter ???


Indeed, if you leave whilst there is a case pending against you for defaulting on your loan, you will almost certainly be arrested if you were to ever set foot in the UAE.

I am also against people leaving and not paying their debts BUT a lot of people have become victim of a catch-22. If they stay, they face arrest, in which case they will not be able to find another job in any case, as in most cases, they will be deported once they have served their sentence and found a couple of good samaritans to pay off their debts for them.
Even if you are released on bail, your passport will be retained and you still cannot find a job.

Whilst living beyond your means is utterly stupid, a lot of good people have also been caught in the mere stupidity of the situation. If you go to the bank and try to work something out, they freeze your account and call the police. If you do a runner, they call the police. Considering that either way, you may end up in jail, most people just choose to leave!


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## DubaiATC (Jun 26, 2010)

Maz25 said:


> If you go to the bank and try to work something out, they freeze your account and call the police. If you do a runner, they call the police. Considering that either way, you may end up in jail, most people just choose to leave!


Since you put it that way, I have to admit that IF I was ever in that situation, I would bail too!!! As a last resort, considering the alternatives, that is. :confused2:


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

How do other countries handle this issue? I am guessing is not such a huge issue for most countries that the population isnt 86+% the population but still curious how other countries deal with it. And probly most foreigners are actual expats in the sense they are moving their for a life and to live long terms. Still, seems no one thought thru this process in the dubai government or who did, was not the brightest crayon in the box.


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

Jynxgirl said:


> How do other countries handle this issue? I am guessing is not such a huge issue for most countries that the population isnt 86+% the population but still curious how other countries deal with it. And probly most foreigners are actual expats in the sense they are moving their for a life and to live long terms. Still, seems no one thought thru this process in the dubai government or who did, was not the brightest crayon in the box.


Other countries have established credit agencies, which helps to negate some of these problems. Banks here seem to rely on expats' fear of jail to force expats to live within their means - unfortunately, the reality of the situation shows that this does not work. Plus, the fact that banks also seem to throw credit at most expats again contradicts the whole principle of 'living within your means'.
Supposedly there is a law here that limits how much of your salary that is eaten up by loan repayments but the fact that no one bothers to enforce it, means that you will always have people who default.

Saying that, most of us live within our means but that does not protect us from the full force of the law if we are unfortunate enough to be made redundant and have car loans or credit card loans. And whilst, I am against people doing a runner, if I were to find myself in the same situation as the other person, the fear of jail would bring out the hypocrite in me and I would be running as well!

I was asked for my home address when I opened my account here. Did the bank check that this address even exists? No, they didn't, which is also how a lot of people manage to do a runner. You can only track someone down if you know where to find them and if you have a bogus address, the chances of tracking them down are really slim. Most of us would not necessarily head home when we leave here; we may move to other countries, which makes it even more difficult to track down someone who has defaulted on their repayments.


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## PolarBear (Jul 12, 2010)

*Alternative to doing a "runner"*

I am curious.. are there really no alternatives to doing a runner? E.g. let's say you don't lose your job but instead get transferred out of Dubai. Would you still have to pay your debts before leaving, or can you negotiate with banks to continue paying your debts from outside the UAE?


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## md000 (Dec 16, 2008)

You can try and negotiate, but I would recommend negotiating from OUTSIDE the region. Why? They will put you in jail until the debt is paid - plain and simple. The law is inflexible with regards to debt and bankruptcy. I was at an event with the DG of the Dubai Courts speaking the other day - and he indicated that they understand there needs to be changes, but no changes will be coming in the foreseeable future - both from a corporate and personal side.

While I am responsible and do not foresee myself in that situation, I already have a plan in place to exit the country and region. I recommend you do the same if you have any outstanding debts here.

-md000/mike



PolarBear said:


> I am curious.. are there really no alternatives to doing a runner? E.g. let's say you don't lose your job but instead get transferred out of Dubai. Would you still have to pay your debts before leaving, or can you negotiate with banks to continue paying your debts from outside the UAE?


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## PolarBear (Jul 12, 2010)

*Runner*



md000 said:


> You can try and negotiate, but I would recommend negotiating from OUTSIDE the region. Why? They will put you in jail until the debt is paid - plain and simple. The law is inflexible with regards to debt and bankruptcy. I was at an event with the DG of the Dubai Courts speaking the other day - and he indicated that they understand there needs to be changes, but no changes will be coming in the foreseeable future - both from a corporate and personal side.
> 
> While I am responsible and do not foresee myself in that situation, I already have a plan in place to exit the country and region. I recommend you do the same if you have any outstanding debts here.
> 
> -md000/mike


Thanks! Seems like very good advice indeed.


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## Canuck_Sens (Nov 16, 2010)

Jynxgirl said:


> How do other countries handle this issue? I am guessing is not such a huge issue for most countries that the population isnt 86+% the population but still curious how other countries deal with it. And probly most foreigners are actual expats in the sense they are moving their for a life and to live long terms. Still, seems no one thought thru this process in the dubai government or who did, was not the brightest crayon in the box.


I am impressed you asked this you being from US  a country full of immigrants.

Most countries charge taxes and through taxes you are entitled to benefits. Also most countries offer you a path to permanent residency and to citizenship. Most Expats from 1st world countries are not planning to stay long term because of the hardship factor, there is no opportunity to become a citizen. @ work there is a guy who has been working for 35 years there and wanted to stay but he cannot. He reached the retirement age and has to leave. So you do not feel at home, know what I mean ? 

If I was in US with the H1B and happened to loose my job I would need to find one fast because the VISA has a expiry date on it and since there is no sponsor I would have to leave the country in the worst case scenario. If I had debts, banks would go after me somehow.

The problem here is that owing money is considered to a certain extent crime.


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

I think I am just going to ignore that one Canuck...


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