# UK NI contributions to improve State Pension



## Verodo

Hello,
I came across this great forum while looking for information regarding topping up my UK NI contributions to find out if it would be beneficial or not and if it’s still currently applicable. I have found lots of useful information but not quite the answers I’m looking for. Hopefully someone will be able to help.
In 1989 I went to the UK straight after I finished my studies and worked (till end of 1995) and lived there till end of 2001. When we (me and family) moved to France I was a stay-at-home mum and not employed. It took me many years to find my feet but I started working in 2007 and have been paying contributions towards French pension ever since.
In 2017 I requested a state pension forecast and a NI record. I received the pension forecast from DWP and the NI schedule from HMRC with the number of qualifying years and some information regarding paying voluntary contributions. The schedule showed the years I was employed and the ones I received credits (child benefits) and it specified that no amount was needed.
There information/explanations regarding paying voluntary contributions related to being self-employed or not self-employed for some tax years when an amount was needed.
The “If you are not self-employed” section mentioned that if I wanted to make a year count towards my state pension, I had to complete Part A that listed tax years from 2006/2007 till 2016/2017 and showed an amount for each year, all to be paid by 5th of April 2023. I worked out that these were Class 3 contributions which I assume referred to my not employed status when I left the UK.
There was a section regarding paying Class 2 rates instead of Class 3 for some of the years, prompting to give details about the type of employment, start/end dates, name of employers, etc. via Form CF83 (leaflet NI38).
Now my questions are:

does this opportunity to pay NI contributions for these 11 years apply to me as an EU national since I also paid French contributions for these years and I have already acquired more than the compulsory 10 qualifying years to claim the UK State pension from my years in the UK?
if I’m entitled to pay NI contributions for these years, will they be added to my existing qualifying years and count towards the calculation of the UK State pension to improve it?
might Brexit means that it’s too late to pay these years back as the letter from HMRC was dated in 2017?
 Sorry it’s a bit long but I would really appreciate your help! Thank you


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## conky2

I am no expert on this at all , but in a vague answer to your questions in reverse.....

You have until 5th April 223 to pay for the back years , as from that date you can only pay 6 years in arrears .

If you are entitled to pay voluntary NI contributions for those years they will count towards the calculation of your state pension.

Absolutely no idea on your first question but my gut feeling is yes you can top up your NI contributions. 

You will get much better advice from other posters.


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## Florabella

Verodo said:


> Hello,
> I came across this great forum while looking for information regarding topping up my UK NI contributions to find out if it would be beneficial or not and if it’s still currently applicable. I have found lots of useful information but not quite the answers I’m looking for. Hopefully someone will be able to help.
> In 1989 I went to the UK straight after I finished my studies and worked (till end of 1995) and lived there till end of 2001. When we (me and family) moved to France I was a stay-at-home mum and not employed. It took me many years to find my feet but I started working in 2007 and have been paying contributions towards French pension ever since.
> In 2017 I requested a state pension forecast and a NI record. I received the pension forecast from DWP and the NI schedule from HMRC with the number of qualifying years and some information regarding paying voluntary contributions. The schedule showed the years I was employed and the ones I received credits (child benefits) and it specified that no amount was needed.
> There information/explanations regarding paying voluntary contributions related to being self-employed or not self-employed for some tax years when an amount was needed.
> The “If you are not self-employed” section mentioned that if I wanted to make a year count towards my state pension, I had to complete Part A that listed tax years from 2006/2007 till 2016/2017 and showed an amount for each year, all to be paid by 5th of April 2023. I worked out that these were Class 3 contributions which I assume referred to my not employed status when I left the UK.
> There was a section regarding paying Class 2 rates instead of Class 3 for some of the years, prompting to give details about the type of employment, start/end dates, name of employers, etc. via Form CF83 (leaflet NI38).
> Now my questions are:
> 
> does this opportunity to pay NI contributions for these 11 years apply to me as an EU national since I also paid French contributions for these years and I have already acquired more than the compulsory 10 qualifying years to claim the UK State pension from my years in the UK?
> if I’m entitled to pay NI contributions for these years, will they be added to my existing qualifying years and count towards the calculation of the UK State pension to improve it?
> might Brexit means that it’s too late to pay these years back as the letter from HMRC was dated in 2017?
> Sorry it’s a bit long but I would really appreciate your help! Thank you





Verodo said:


> Hello,
> I came across this great forum while looking for information regarding topping up my UK NI contributions to find out if it would be beneficial or not and if it’s still currently applicable. I have found lots of useful information but not quite the answers I’m looking for. Hopefully someone will be able to help.
> In 1989 I went to the UK straight after I finished my studies and worked (till end of 1995) and lived there till end of 2001. When we (me and family) moved to France I was a stay-at-home mum and not employed. It took me many years to find my feet but I started working in 2007 and have been paying contributions towards French pension ever since.
> In 2017 I requested a state pension forecast and a NI record. I received the pension forecast from DWP and the NI schedule from HMRC with the number of qualifying years and some information regarding paying voluntary contributions. The schedule showed the years I was employed and the ones I received credits (child benefits) and it specified that no amount was needed.
> There information/explanations regarding paying voluntary contributions related to being self-employed or not self-employed for some tax years when an amount was needed.
> The “If you are not self-employed” section mentioned that if I wanted to make a year count towards my state pension, I had to complete Part A that listed tax years from 2006/2007 till 2016/2017 and showed an amount for each year, all to be paid by 5th of April 2023. I worked out that these were Class 3 contributions which I assume referred to my not employed status when I left the UK.
> There was a section regarding paying Class 2 rates instead of Class 3 for some of the years, prompting to give details about the type of employment, start/end dates, name of employers, etc. via Form CF83 (leaflet NI38).
> Now my questions are:
> 
> does this opportunity to pay NI contributions for these 11 years apply to me as an EU national since I also paid French contributions for these years and I have already acquired more than the compulsory 10 qualifying years to claim the UK State pension from my years in the UK?
> if I’m entitled to pay NI contributions for these years, will they be added to my existing qualifying years and count towards the calculation of the UK State pension to improve it?
> might Brexit means that it’s too late to pay these years back as the letter from HMRC was dated in 2017?
> Sorry it’s a bit long but I would really appreciate your help! Thank you


Best idea would be to phone them. They are usually very helpful and on the ball.


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## 1790260

I've 'bought back' many years (complete or partial) in the past. I also did that for a number of years when in France, however I was not working in France so not contributing to a French pension. That _*might*_ be a sticking point for you. I honestly have no idea on that.

You can only buy back years for a certain number of years. I don't know the exact number (though it is certainly around the 6 years that @conky2 said above) so you may find that those years stated on your 2017 letter are no longer available to you. That said, you may have the years _since_ 2017 available (that is, if contributing to a French pension doesn't exclude them)

I suggest, as others recommend, that you give them a call. They are indeed exceptionally helpful, I've spoken to them many times!

Edit: on your second point, yes they would count as qualifying years for state pension. That is exactly the reason why I bought years back. I now have full qualifying years and pension rights, having bought back maybe as many as 12 years over the decades (I was in the habit of plugging gaps as they arose, due to me having a checkered employment record !)


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## Yours truly confused

If I am reading correctly you made the request for your pension forecast in 2017 and have not, so far made any payments to buy back missing years. In your case I would try to phone the pensions service, best first thing in the morning before the lines get too busy, they are generally very helpful and can answer all your questions for you. I paid Class 3 whilst living in Belgium and Switzerland and not working and have been paying Class 2 since living here and starting my micro entreprise. I will have a full state pension once I reach that golden age.







International Pension Centre


International Pension Centre contact details for pension enquiries if you've lived or worked abroad




www.gov.uk


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## Crabtree

You need to bear in mind that pensions from different states are not generally looked at by the authorities as being "stand alone" You do not say what nationality you are but I am guessing French? If I am wrong the please say.What you need to bear in mind is that when you claim your french pension which is at an earlier age than the UK and is a better pension you will be asked if you worked elsewhere and then the French pension people will contact the UK get the qualifying years and add it to your French pension so you need to work out if paying into a UK pension to top it up is actually worth it? Obviously if you intend moving back to the UK that puts a different slant on it


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## Nomoss

I have State pensions from both UK and Spain, and made voluntary payments to the UK system for several years when I was working in Spain.
In 2000 I was allowed to make payments in respect of a maximum of six previous years, plus the current year, and continue making them until I reached retirement age, but those rules may have changed since then.

When I reached pension age I declared my full working history to both the UK and Spain, as pensions were claimed separately from each country at that time.
The fact that I had made payments to the UK for years for which I had also made payments in Spain did not affect either pension adversely.

Each country calculated, where "year" means "qualifying year" - any year for which full contributions were paid:-

A) Their pension based on the total number of years in all countries, multiplied by the fraction:
Years in that country / Total number of years in all countries

B) Their pension based only on the years in that country

Each country paid whichever was the higher amount.


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## 1790260

Nomoss said:


> made voluntary payments to the UK system for several years when I was working in Spain.


Thank you for answering the question I had. I didn't know if that was allowable.


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## Verodo

Thank you for your replies.
Yes, I'm French. As Nomoss explained, I am aware that each coutry will calculate 2 separate amounts based 1) on their own records (national pension) and 2) on both countries' records adjusted to reflect actual number of years/trimesters in the country (aggregated pension). Whatever age I decide to retire from 62 years the french national pension will also be adjusted based on actual number of acquired trimesters since I won't have the required number of trimesters for my age group. I found some information saying that in France if some years have been allocated in both countries (like through buying back some trimesters or making regular voluntary payments to buy trimesters while working abroad) these years won't be counted twice in the calculation of the aggregated pension but would be taken into account with an additional separate calculation to reflect . I don't know if the UK does the same or not. The French calculation formula is way more complex than the UK one.
Like most of you advised me, I will ring HMRC to clarify the situation with regards to buying back the years 2006 to 2017 like it appears on the form they sent me in 2017. Through further reading today I found out that the current rate for Class 3 VNIC applies to all these years, making them more expensive that they were back in 2017.

I have actually started the process of adding my UK years so Assurance Retraite can take them into account and send me an updated forecast. I received the form from CNAV where I have to list my year of employment in the UK. In one of the column I have to specify the following details :
a) Institution ou régime d'assurance
c) Nature de l'assurance
Does a) refers to HMRC or DWP or both and c) refers to employment or self-employment ?


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## Verodo

Nomoss said:


> I have State pensions from both UK and Spain, and made voluntary payments to the UK system for several years when I was working in Spain.
> In 2000 I was allowed to make payments in respect of a maximum of six previous years, plus the current year, and continue making them until I reached retirement age, but those rules may have changed since then.
> 
> When I reached pension age I declared my full working history to both the UK and Spain, as pensions were claimed separately from each country at that time.
> The fact that I had made payments to the UK for years for which I had also made payments in Spain did not affect either pension adversely.
> 
> Each country calculated, where "year" means "qualifying year" - any year for which full contributions were paid:-
> 
> A) Their pension based on the total number of years in all countries, multiplied by the fraction:
> Years in that country / Total number of years in all countries
> 
> B) Their pension based only on the years in that country
> 
> Each country paid whichever was the higher amount.


Nomoss, are you an EU national ?


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## Verodo

appunti said:


> I've 'bought back' many years (complete or partial) in the past. I also did that for a number of years when in France, however I was not working in France so not contributing to a French pension. That _*might*_ be a sticking point for you. I honestly have no idea on that.
> 
> You can only buy back years for a certain number of years. I don't know the exact number (though it is certainly around the 6 years that @conky2 said above) so you may find that those years stated on your 2017 letter are no longer available to you. That said, you may have the years _since_ 2017 available (that is, if contributing to a French pension doesn't exclude them)
> 
> I suggest, as others recommend, that you give them a call. They are indeed exceptionally helpful, I've spoken to them many times!
> 
> Edit: on your second point, yes they would count as qualifying years for state pension. That is exactly the reason why I bought years back. I now have full qualifying years and pension rights, having bought back maybe as many as 12 years over the decades (I was in the habit of plugging gaps as they arose, due to me having a checkered employment record !)


Appunti, the UK pension system changed in 2016 when the New State Pension was introduced based on a slightly different calculation method. From what I found online, it seems that the possibility to buy back these 11 years by April 2023 applies only to men born after 1951 and women born after 1953 who started their NI record before 2016. Since I received my NI record in 2017 and I am in the said age group I assume that the form i received to fill in to buy back these years applies to me.
If I can buy them back I'm not quite sure how I can pay HMRC since I live in France and don't have access to the GOV website. I tried back in 2017 but I can't have my identity verified through the usual method (no UK address, no UK passport, etc.).


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## Nomoss

Verodo said:


> Nomoss, are you an EU national ?


I was, until Brexit


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## Nomoss

Verodo said:


> If I can buy them back I'm not quite sure how I can pay HMRC since I live in France and don't have access to the GOV website. I tried back in 2017 but I can't have my identity verified through the usual method (no UK address, no UK passport, etc.).


I think you can deal with Inland Revenue NI Contributions Office by mail and pay by cheque or sterling bank draft as I did.

I can't get my ID verified either. Despite having a UK passport, a National Insurance number and a UK pension, but I think I recall they want a driving licence number or similar in addition. I phoned them and was more or less just told "bad luck".

Anyway, Gov UK Verify is soon to end. Or maybe not. What a bloody confusing load of waffle. GOV.UK Verify


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## Nomoss

Nomoss said:


> I think you can deal with Inland Revenue NI Contributions Office by mail and pay by cheque or sterling bank draft as I did.


 Or whatever it's called this week


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## Verodo

Nomoss said:


> I think you can deal with Inland Revenue NI Contributions Office by mail and pay by cheque or sterling bank draft as I did.
> 
> I can't get my ID verified either. Despite having a UK passport, a National Insurance number and a UK pension, but I think I recall they want a driving licence number or similar in addition. I phoned them and was more or less just told "bad luck".
> 
> Anyway, Gov UK Verify is soon to end. Or maybe not. What a bloody confusing load of waffle. GOV.UK Verify


I found an email from HMRC NI Contributions Office from 2017 in my mailbox. Also found the procedure on HMRC website for paying by bank transfer from an overseas non-UK account. I guess I can request a more recent NI statement by email and check if the option to buy back 2006 to 2017 is still there and what the rates are.


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## EuroTrash

Verodo said:


> I have actually started the process of adding my UK years so Assurance Retraite can take them into account and send me an updated forecast. I received the form from CNAV where I have to list my year of employment in the UK. In one of the column I have to specify the following details :
> a) Institution ou régime d'assurance
> c) Nature de l'assurance
> Does a) refers to HMRC or DWP or both and c) refers to employment or self-employment ?


I'm following this thread with interest as I intend to start the process with Assurance Retraite early next year with a view to retiring in early autumn. Would really appreciate it if you could post back with your experience of adding your UK years.

FWIW I think a) would be DWP, on the basis that although HMRC does deal with national insurance contributions, they're not a régime d'assurance. It's DWP that provides pension forecasts etc.

(My first issue though is to get to the bottom of why at the beginning of this year my career included 30-odd trimestres of contributions as a micro entrepreneur with la CIPAV, and rather alarmingly it now shows all those years as "unknown". I am wondering if it's something to do with the transfer of a big swathe of auto entrpreneurs from la CIPAV to the régime général, but I'm in the cohort/activity group that was supposed to be able to decide whether to transfer or not and I didn't ask to be transferred.)


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## Nomoss

Verodo said:


> I received the form from CNAV where I have to list my year of employment in the UK. In one of the column I have to specify the following details :
> a) Institution ou régime d'assurance
> c) Nature de l'assurance
> Does a) refers to HMRC or DWP or both and c) refers to employment or self-employment ?


Re. a) I would be inclined to simply put "National Insurance, Royaume-Uni". I don't think the UK has multiple State Pension providers, so they should understand.

As for who deals with NI contributions. I first contacted, and received pension forecasts from Inland Revenue, now HMRC, to whom I also made voluntary payments (by cheque to IR NI Contributions Office)

I made my pension claim to the Pension Service, part of DWP. They handle my pension, and all further contact has been with them.with


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## Nomoss

Re. c) How about "Système d'État britannique"

That's what I'd put, simply to avoid leaving a blank line


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## EuroTrash

Nomoss said:


> Re. c) How about "Système d'État britannique"


I'm sure it's sound advice in fact - but it made me smile. I think a lot of people would be amused right now to see the concepts of "system" and "UK government".joined together. I'm sure some fonctionnaires have a sense of humour.


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## SPGW

Verodo said:


> I have actually started the process of adding my UK years so Assurance Retraite can take them into account and send me an updated forecast. I received the form from CNAV


...me too, and I agree with ET's advice. Retirement planned in France, 01JAN2024. If I recall correctly the process took a few months, so @ET, nothing to lose in starting it off now rather than later (imo). My process was on advice of an employer in France, to have years of UK uni education counted in France, which triggers the process of accounting for all CNAV "gaps" in pension contribution history. I had to act as intermediary sending stuff between HMRC and CNAV, not sure that they contacted each other directly, but the lady at CNAV was very helpful on a couple of phone calls. I think, but am never sure with bureacracy, that everything is in order. I've prompted Assurance Retraite of the planned date. Next action is 3 months before retirement date, I believe.


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## EuroTrash

SPGW said:


> I had to act as intermediary sending stuff between HMRC and CNAV, not sure that they contacted each other directly


Ah, that's bad news. I was hoping I could let them get on with sorting it out between them.
I'm a bit apprehensive because I think I've done it wrong - I'm already receiving my UK pension, which I claimed as a UK resident as soon as I hit UK retirement age because I flit between the two and arguably I was resident in the UK at the time of claiming it. And it seemed so much simpler to do it that way because I wanted to carry on working for a couple of years in France before retiring completely and claiming my French pension. But now I'm starting to think I might have problems ahead if you're supposed to claim both parts of the pension through the same country. But I shouldn't be hijacking Verodo's very interesting thread.


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## ccm47

As somebody who happily worked for the DWP as a National Insurance inspector and staff trainer, I can clarify things re DWP and HMRC. Basically since the late 90s HMRC collects in the money, DWP pays it out. The DWP staff who worked in Newcastle on allocating money to accounts and sending out bills etc. stayed at their desks but changed the letter heading and had their Ts and C's changed. Hence you pay in to HMRC.

The scenarios here are complicated and not "run of the mill" so seek advice from the DWP since they are the ones who will pay any pension. Anybody else's experience is never the same as yours. The DWP staff have nothing to sell you so they are unbiased.

If you choose to phone: morning is never the best time. We did some analysis on having staff available to answer the phones and found there were fewer calls coming in around 4.00 to 4.30 but still plenty of people in the office, hence that's when the wait is shortest.


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## Clic Clac

SPGW said:


> *Retirement planned in France, 01JAN2024.* If I recall correctly the process took a few months, *so @ET, nothing to lose in starting it off now rather than later *(imo)....
> 
> *Next action is 3 months before retirement date, I believe.*


You can put in your demand - and get the ball rolling - 6 months before your chosen retirement date.


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## BackinFrance

ET, I don't think it matters in France that you are already receiving your UK pension. However applying for the French pension is quite complicated and you also need to apply 6 months in advance. Where your contributions have gone I have no idea, but there have been lots of problems here in that regard and it is very hard to sort them out before you apply and can still be so once you do apply. I can only suggest you make contact with the caisse that you think is supposed to be managing yours and if they can't help ask them who else you should talk to.


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## SPGW

I also don’t think it matters if you are already receiving UK pension. There is no obligation to ‘combine’ the two ( or more) state systems (depending on circumstances). But obviously you can’t expect the Fr system to consider your UK trimestres if you’re already receiving the UK payments. So I don’t see any need to start any amalgamation.


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## BackinFrance

SPGW said:


> I also don’t think it matters if you are already receiving UK pension. There is no obligation to ‘combine’ the two ( or more) state systems (depending on circumstances). But obviously you can’t expect the Fr system to consider your UK trimestres if you’re already receiving the UK payments. So I don’t see any need to start any amalgamation.


It's not necessarily about amalgamating the 2 pensions, it could just as easily be about having been employed long enough to avoid eg a décote in respect of the French pension, in which case there should be no negative impact for ET.


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## EuroTrash

Thanks BiF and SPGW, that's reassuring.
Truth to tell I hadn't even asked myself why Assurance Retraite wanted information about every year since 1973 and what they were going to use it for, I was just worrying about having to provide something for every year because I suppose I thought I had to make all the orange years on my career diagram go green before they'd accept an application. If they're happy for years to remain "not known" and it won't have any negative impact for me, that's one headache solved


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## Clic Clac

EuroTrash said:


> I was just worrying about having to provide something for every year because I suppose *I thought I had to make all the orange years on my career diagram go green* before they'd accept an application. If they're happy for years to remain "not known" and it won't have any negative impact for me, that's one headache solved


I've got three red ones - no information (I was back in the UK).
Also one orange year which shows as 'incomplete' - it is half & half.


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## EuroTrash

Clic Clac said:


> I've got three red ones - no information (I was back in the UK).
> Also one orange year which shows as 'incomplete' - it is half & half.


Ah most of mine must be red then, not orange. I'm pretty sure it said no information rather than incomplete. At present it's one long trail of red (or orange, whichever) between 1978 and 2021 Thirty-two years working in the UK and then ten years that used to be green for micro entrepreneur but now they're red. The thought of having to fill in over 40 years was boggling my mind. Happy that I may not have to.


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## Verodo

Nomoss said:


> When I reached pension age I declared my full working history to both the UK and Spain, as pensions were claimed separately from each country at that time.
> The fact that I had made payments to the UK for years for which I had also made payments in Spain did not affect either pension adversely.
> 
> Each country calculated, where "year" means "qualifying year" - any year for which full contributions were paid:-
> 
> A) Their pension based on the total number of years in all countries, multiplied by the fraction:
> Years in that country / Total number of years in all countries
> 
> B) Their pension based only on the years in that country
> 
> Each country paid whichever was the higher amount.


In your statement A), is the fraction not "Years in that country / Required number of years in that country" ?
I've seen both methods of calculation for statement A) online but the result is not quite the same.


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## Nomoss

Nomoss said:


> Each country calculated, where "year" means "qualifying year" - any year for which full contributions were paid:-
> A) Their pension based on the total number of years in all countries, multiplied by the fraction:
> Years in that country / Total number of years in all countries
> B) Their pension based only on the years in that country
> Each country paid whichever was the higher amount.





Verodo said:


> In your statement A), is the fraction not "Years in that country / Required number of years in that country" ?
> I've seen both methods of calculation for statement A) online but the result is not quite the same.


I think my statement is how my pensions were calculated.

e.g. If I had paid contributions for 9 years in UK and 14 in Spain I would have 23 qualifying years in all countries.

Calculations are:
A) UK: Pension for 23 years x 9/23
Spain: Pension for 23 years x 14/23

B) UK: Pension for 9 years = Zero, minimum qualifying years is 10.
Spain: Pension for 14 years = Zero, minimum qualifying years is 15


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## Verodo

I found this (long) document from Assurance Retraite which show examples of pension calculations for expats with careers in various countries. It's quite informative.
Information retraite des expatriés


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## effendi

I live in the USA at present, France next year, and have been paying voluntary NI contributions to fill missing years and also pay monthly currently until next year when I will have the requisite 35 years.

It cost a few hundred quid every year to make the ongoing payments, filling missed years I did by paying a lump sum for those years. I also made up some shortfall as I was in the army and had a shortfall on the state pension as a result of the army pension.

You can get a forecast online by putting in details you should have. Then when you have questions just give them a call, they are really friendly and helpful.

One thing to be aware of is that some places will tot up your working life for a set number of years, for example 35 years. If joint state provided pensions total to, for example, 40 years one, or other, of the countries may withhold that 5 years. Think about it, carefully.


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## Verodo

effendi said:


> I live in the USA at present, France next year, and have been paying voluntary NI contributions to fill missing years and also pay monthly currently until next year when I will have the requisite 35 years.
> 
> It cost a few hundred quid every year to make the ongoing payments, filling missed years I did by paying a lump sum for those years. I also made up some shortfall as I was in the army and had a shortfall on the state pension as a result of the army pension.
> 
> You can get a forecast online by putting in details you should have. Then when you have questions just give them a call, they are really friendly and helpful.
> 
> One thing to be aware of is that some places will tot up your working life for a set number of years, for example 35 years. If joint state provided pensions total to, for example, 40 years one, or other, of the countries may withhold that 5 years. Think about it, carefully.


I don't quite understand your last sentence. Can you give more details ?


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## Verodo

Nomoss said:


> I think my statement is how my pensions were calculated.
> 
> e.g. If I had paid contributions for 9 years in UK and 14 in Spain I would have 23 qualifying years in all countries.
> 
> Calculations are:
> A) UK: Pension for 23 years x 9/23
> Spain: Pension for 23 years x 14/23
> 
> B) UK: Pension for 9 years = Zero, minimum qualifying years is 10.
> Spain: Pension for 14 years = Zero, minimum qualifying years is 15


Your example only applies when some doesn't have enough qualifying years in both countries


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## effendi

Verodo said:


> I don't quite understand your last sentence. Can you give more details ?



The way it was explained to me. I am not a pensions expert, I have spoken with the DWP people and a couple of pensions advisers (who TBH were a waste of oxygen). This nugget I tucked away for further deeper investigation before my state pensionable dates arrive.

A government (for example the UK) have decided that you are entitled to a full pension of 'X' value after 35 years.

You pay in your 35 years fully expecting to receive that 'X' in cash every month at the appropriate age.

In the meantime you wander off and pick up a state pension in another country for 10 years which notionally entitles you to 'Y' amount at the predetermined date.

When the date arrives just like some governments have dual taxation treaties they can also share pension information.

It may be that one country says, "ah, you have 45 years worth of pension, yet you are only entitled to a cumulative 35 years worth we are going to adjust your payment accordingly".


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## 1790260

Well, just to further confuse things, I have an entitlement to a near-as-dammit full UK state pension (some 40p a week short) with only 30 qualifying years. I check it every year (online) and have spoken to the DWP a couple of times about it and I am assured all is correct.

I honestly don't understand the whys and wherefores, pensions confuse the whatever out of me.

I also topped up and bought full and partial years over the years, paying voluntary contributions. Maybe I effectively overpaid? Wasn't there a brief window of time where the requirement was only 30 years? I'm thinking of mid-late 2000s. The only thing I can figure is that I gained my entitlement during that window and once gained the right isn't removed.


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## effendi

appunti said:


> Well, just to further confuse things, I have an entitlement to a near-as-dammit full UK state pension (some 40p a week short) with only 30 qualifying years. I check it every year (online) and have spoken to the DWP a couple of times about it and I am assured all is correct.
> 
> I honestly don't understand the whys and wherefores, pensions confuse the whatever out of me.
> 
> I also topped up and bought full and partial years over the years, paying voluntary contributions. Maybe I effectively overpaid? Wasn't there a brief window of time where the requirement was only 30 years? I'm thinking of mid-late 2000s. The only thing I can figure is that I gained my entitlement during that window and once gained the right isn't removed.


I think I am a quid short of the full pension now with all my back payments and ongoing voluntary payments. They quoted me over £400 to top it off to the full amount.........at a quid a month I would have to be hanging around for 40 years to make the money back.

Yes, it was only 30 years when I moved over to the USA 12 years ago. Then they went and changed it, I found out purely by chance and that was when I started to top it off again. Paying a couple of back years, making up the difference due to my army pension, and paying into the pot for the last few years has increased it quite significantly.


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## Bevdeforges

I have no idea how the British pension system works, but when I was coming up on retirement age it was just a matter of filling out the forms for all three countries in which I had worked. Basically the same information for each of the three countries (i.e. fill in the "missing" information for those periods when I had worked outside the country) - and then let the relevant pension offices do whatever it is they do with that sort of information. And so now I receive pensions from all three countries, each based on their particular rules. Sometimes it pays to just fill in the forms and see how things turn out.


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## 1790260

effendi said:


> They quoted me over £400 to top it off to the full amount


The DWP advisor had a little chuckle when they pointed I _could_ buy an additional year to make up the difference but advised me not to as it didn't make much sense.

I think my mix of self-employment and employed status over the years means I had a mix and match of contribution types and when it was all folded together (with the disappearance of SERPS) it worked to my advantage. When self-employed, I always bought my stamp!


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## 1790260

I've just read qualifying years went to 35 in 2016. I didn't realise it was as late as that.


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## effendi

Bevdeforges said:


> I have no idea how the British pension system works, but when I was coming up on retirement age it was just a matter of filling out the forms for all three countries in which I had worked. Basically the same information for each of the three countries (i.e. fill in the "missing" information for those periods when I had worked outside the country) - and then let the relevant pension offices do whatever it is they do with that sort of information. And so now I receive pensions from all three countries, each based on their particular rules. Sometimes it pays to just fill in the forms and see how things turn out.


Exactly what I am going to do. Though I will not tell Peter about Paul.


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## effendi

appunti said:


> I've just read qualifying years went to 35 in 2016. I didn't realise it was as late as that.


That sounds about right for when I started to make up my shortfall.


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