# Specific items/questions for moving to Mexico



## Germanshepherd72 (Oct 7, 2018)

Hi all. I am new here. I am a 46 year old single male with fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. The climate in Kansas is terrible for my health with severe cold and heat/humidity, and living on $2,005 per month fixed income is getting hard to do, even in the Midwest. At age 59 I become legally retired and income will double at that point. Still a way to go to get there, however. I've lost everything twice and had to take out bankruptcy for medical reasons 8 years ago but am debt free, thankfully.
My health issues don't stop me but do probably necessitate living within reach of a more major city. I understand that health care isn't an issue in Mexico City or Guadalajara. I've been eyeing the Lake Chapal area for a blend of reasons. It looks like an apartment can be had for the $500 mark or less and it's a fairly short trip to Guadalajara. I do have my own car.
Looking at Visa requirements, I'm just barely under the temporary or permanent resident requirements but am so close that maybe an expeption might be made.
I'm well travelled and fairly well cultured. I have a wonderful Belgian Malinois who is now a senior. I'm also gay but not flamboyant or obvious in any way. I mention this only as I am single and socializing/dating will be a part of my life. I am also in recovery from alcohol, so not into bars at all. A local 12 step recovery program would be great.
Rather than dive in and learn from an over abundance of needless mistakes, can anyone offer any tidbits of advice? My priorities are temperate climate, within an hour of excellent medical care, my large dog (well behaved and trained) not intimidating locals, an established expat community however small, and rent between $400 and $500 preferably.
I see the cost of living in the States rising, the quality of life diminishing, and have nothing keeping me here.
I'm completely ambulatory and my only major health issues are pain and fatigue, which diminish considerably with nice, stable weather. There are decent days and a couple of days per week when taking it easy is required. 
I'm sure I've asked questions dozens before me already have, and if so, please forgive me in advance. With my combination of lifestyle considerations, I want to start off smartly and plan on driving to visit a city matching my considerations in Mexico for a month when the weather worsens in the Midwest. I see many ridiculously reasonably priced hotels in Guadalajara but not sure about the safety. Will need to consider the cost of accommodations and my 70 lb. dog, who also happens to be a service animal. I don't think Mexico has any/many ADA type laws but may be incorrect.. I know legally here she can accompany me anywhere but that will be different in another country.
I very much appreciate you taking the time to read and/or respond. The climate, financial stress removal, fresh food, and slow pace would do wonders for my health I think.
Best, Jeff


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## Germanshepherd72 (Oct 7, 2018)

I didn't proof very carefully. I meant to say "items" in my post title instead of "otems." Im all thumbs.. Can't see how to edit.
I also neglected to say that my Spanish is non existent but am confident it can be learned with patience. Thanks again.


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## TurtleToo (Aug 23, 2013)

Hello, Jeff, welcome to the forum!

I can't speak to many of your questions, but I'll chip in what I can. I haven't checked the visa requirements for a bit, so can't say if they have changed recently. However, the last time I checked, the income requirement for Residente Temporal was around $1,400 US a month, well below your income. It is stated in pesos, so the USD equivalent will have gone up a bit since then (when the peso was worth somewhat less than now), but should still be less than your monthly income. (Always assuming the rules didn't change again while I wasn't looking, as they are prone to do!) It is easy to get out of date info about the requirements on the internet because there is often no date given on a webpage. So go directly to the Mexican government website for the most recent requirements.

I'm out of the loop concerning the gay community here, but my guess is that it will be very specific to the town or city you choose. I am in Guanajuato which is one of the most conservative states (perhaps THE most conservative) in the country, the only state that AMLO did not carry. However, within the city of Guanajuato that conservatism is tempered by the large student population. Here I've noticed numerous gay couples, more so than in my home state in the US. Some of our other members would be a better source for Chapala (or other location) specific info.

A few months after arriving, I rescued a very sick abandoned kitten. I was very surprised by the difference a pet made when I started looking for a new apartment. I eventually found one, but having a pet eliminated around 75% of the possibilities. Nonetheless, there are pet-friendly hotels and B and B's--you'll just have to research and plan much more carefully. And be prepared to offer an additional large deposit when looking at rentals. (Rentals in this city are geared towards the student population, so may not be typical of other places.) However, expect very different cultural attitudes toward pets. Don't count on hotels or other businesses to recognize the concept of "service animal"--but others may be better able to speak to that. 

There are AA meetings here in Spanish, and one in English.

Your concerns about climate suggest a location in the Central Highlands, probably with an elevation roughly between 4,000 and 6,000 feet. (But it sounds as if you've figured this part out already.)

Your target rental price range seems very doable possibly in most (?) locations, certainly where I am, and depending on what you require. I pay $4,000 a month (approx 216 US dollars) for an apartment that my cat and I think is quite nice, but my sister finds appalling. However, $7,000-$9,000 a month, which is within your range, can yield much more spacious, aesthetically pleasing, better maintained properties, possibly without the antique plumbing and electrical systems of my own house. I'm under the impression that Chapala is pricier than here, but still has properties within your range. 

I think your idea of researching and choosing a likely location to visit for a month is great. Just don't start with Guanajuato! You won't be able to leave at the end of a month. I'm still here 10 months later, after arriving with an intention to stay a week or two--although I'm now ready to start "vacationing" in other cities. 

Good luck to you, and again, welcome!

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## TurtleToo (Aug 23, 2013)

I forgot to say that I highly recommend starting Spanish classes as soon as possible, while still in Kansas. It will make an enormous difference during your one month exploratory trip if you can already speak a little Spanish. And when you arrive, enrolling in a Spanish class in your chosen location is a great way to start making local acquaintances. My Spanish teacher has been a great help to me in navigating the many mysteries of Mexico. Although she hasn't yet been able to address my bewilderment at the concept of a Phone and Shoe Store. 

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## RickS (Aug 6, 2009)

Hopefully someone who knows the income requirements (RVGRINGO!) will chime in soon. I'm not aware of any exceptions to the law. With respect to the climate the Lake Chapala area would probably be great for you. It is one of the primary reason why so many Gringos come and live here. Guadalajara, just 40 minutes north, similar but not quite as 'normalized' by the huge lake Chapala.

Lakeside has a large number of gay patrons of both sexes and one can either fly below the radar or be 'out' as most are. Most folks there could care less about your sexuality. Generally speaking it is a non-starter!

These days the rental market is pretty tight and $500 will not be the norm... but it can be done with some effort and surely one can still find a reasonable apartment for that. It will be easier to do in Chapala town or Jocotopec as opposed to Ajijic proper but with a car you could consider either.

And no, Mexico is not an ADA-type country. But many folks around Lakeside have pets and some take them to restaurants although most of us don't. If your pup is truly a service animal you should have no problems with her joining you in public, especially at Lakeside.

With respect to health care the city of Guadalajara has 'world class' medical facilities. Lakeside too has many good generalists. This proximity is just one of the reasons why Lake Chapala continues to be a draw. An International airport is another. One can join Seguro Popular Mexican medical system even if not a Mexican. Many people use it as their only but many people also get some kind of private coverage and use SP for catastrophic events. Paying out of pocket for 'less than life threatening things' is pretty inexpensive. Great dental coverage for a pittance compared to the US. 

Coming down for a month is a very good idea. In that timeframe one can 'get to know' the locale, its surrounds and it's social climate. It will be the 'high season' at Lakeside meaning a lot of snowbirds will be here for the winter. My prediction is that you will find it very appealing. In any respect, good luck!



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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

The income requirements and conditions for a residence visa are quite firm. The nearest Mexican consulate can give the current figures, which change with the exchange rate, from time to time.
RickS has given good advice.
We originally bought in Ajijic, but shortly sold and bought in Chapala centro for better shopping, walkability, ambiance and fewer of "us". Our Mexican neighbors were wonderful, yet we were only a block and a half from the Mercado Publico, American Legion, the Lake at Parque Christiania, etc. We miss it.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> The income requirements and conditions for a residence visa are quite firm. The nearest Mexican consulate can give the current figures, which change with the exchange rate, from time to time.
> RickS has given good advice.
> We originally bought in Ajijic, but shortly sold and bought in Chapala centro for better shopping, walkability, ambiance and fewer of "us". Our Mexican neighbors were wonderful, yet we were only a block and a half from the Mercado Publico, American Legion, the Lake at Parque Christiania, etc. We miss it.


A few years ago, I spent the Día de muertos holiday week in Chapala as a guest of RV and his lovely wife. I had a wonderful time and enjoyed the ambience of his barrio, especially the proximity of the shores of Lake Chapala. If I ever leave Mexico City, it is certainly a town I would consider moving to.


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## Germanshepherd72 (Oct 7, 2018)

Thank you everyone for your replies! If I can't squeak through the permanent resident visa income requirements, I can do an advance application for a temporary resident visa for 4 years in the interim. It looks as if you complete the 4 year temp visa that it can be changed to permanent? Maybe the income requirements still come into play. Will need to find that out.

I took the plunge and found a clean homestay room booked through a major tourist booking app with good references in Guanajuato for a whopping ten bucks per night. I'll stay January and February and see how we match. I like the cultural activities available there as well as the University and diversity. From what I can tell, it is a beautiful, vibrant city with good weather. I'm hoping we're a good fit; the cost of living is extremely low as well. So, at 46, this will be my first "snow bird" vacation and hopefully my new home. The warmer weather should definitely help pain levels this winter. Fingers are crossed.

I want to thank everyone for their replies. I can't seem to figure out how to reply to each of you individually or I'd do so. Thanks again.

Now it's time to pretend I'm in college again and cram for a lifelong Spanish exam! 😁


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

Once you have completed the 4 years as a temporary resident, you _*have to*_ change to permanent (unless you leave Mexico, or abandon your residency and apply for a new one from scratch). At this point (changing to permanent after 4 years of temporary), the higher income requirements for permanent do not apply to you; those requirements are only for applicants who start out as permanent from the beginning.


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## Haskins (May 21, 2017)

Germanshepherd72 said:


> Thank you everyone for your replies! If I can't squeak through the permanent resident visa income requirements, I can do an advance application for a temporary resident visa for 4 years in the interim. It looks as if you complete the 4 year temp visa that it can be changed to permanent? Maybe the income requirements still come into play. Will need to find that out.
> 
> I took the plunge and found a clean homestay room booked through a major tourist booking app with good references in Guanajuato for a whopping ten bucks per night. I'll stay January and February and see how we match. I like the cultural activities available there as well as the University and diversity. From what I can tell, it is a beautiful, vibrant city with good weather. I'm hoping we're a good fit; the cost of living is extremely low as well. So, at 46, this will be my first "snow bird" vacation and hopefully my new home. The warmer weather should definitely help pain levels this winter. Fingers are crossed.
> 
> ...


Please keep us posted as you begin your adventures! We love to experience the wonder of Mexico as seen from new eyes. You will fall in love with Guanajuato! I did.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

Germanshepherd72 said:


> Thank you everyone for your replies! If I can't squeak through the permanent resident visa income requirements, I can do an advance application for a temporary resident visa for 4 years in the interim. It looks as if you complete the 4 year temp visa that it can be changed to permanent? Maybe the income requirements still come into play. Will need to find that out.
> 
> I took the plunge and found a clean homestay room booked through a major tourist booking app with good references in Guanajuato for a whopping ten bucks per night. I'll stay January and February and see how we match. I like the cultural activities available there as well as the University and diversity. From what I can tell, it is a beautiful, vibrant city with good weather. I'm hoping we're a good fit; the cost of living is extremely low as well. So, at 46, this will be my first "snow bird" vacation and hopefully my new home. The warmer weather should definitely help pain levels this winter. Fingers are crossed.
> 
> ...


The 4 year temporary visa is a little misleading. A friend just went through this- told at the consulate in the US that he could get it for 4 years, but in fact, you can only get it initially for 1 year, then you can opt to extend for 3 more years.
And while the winters Lakeside, and in San Miguel or Guanajauto will not compare to the winters in Kansas (I grew up there) they can get pretty chilly sometimes. Don't assume you'll be walking around at night in a t-shirt, and sometimes even a sweater won't be enough. I also don't do well with cold, and when I lived in San Miguel one winter, I had to wear a sweater, a leather jacket, gloves and a scarf! I and the other tenants in the little complex where I was living convinced the landlord, who was quite content to sit around in a winter coat, to install space heaters in his apartments, because we were all freezing.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

It does start to get chilly in the Guanajuato area around Halloween. I'm over the hills in the Lake Chapala area and it's getting close to lighting the fireplace time in the evenings. San Miguel is at a much higher elevation, and when we lived there, it was mighty cold in the winter.

If you want to write a private message to anyone, click on their name (handle) and you will see that among the options that come up.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I went to San Miguel for Chritmas in 85 and it was freezing cold. The chumney did not work and we had to change room because there was no way to stay comfortable in the freezing room. During the day it was nice and sunny and brisk but the nights were really cold..


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

How cold was it? We lived in a new house with a gas fire log fireplace in SMA. When turned to max, we still bundled up in those zip up blanket things and closed off the stairway with another blanket. Our Mexican neighbors were seen trying to warm up in the sun sitting outside in the mornings. Brrr.

Whoever built our current house a century or more ago in Ajijic knew what they were doing. Big log burning fireplace in the main room. Doesn't smoke and does the job. Still, we used 7 loads of firewood last winter.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

I grew up in Alaska so I have some experience with cold. The winter temperatures in Mexico don't seem that cold compared to Canada and northern US cities. But what those numbers leave out is the difference between living in a fully insulated house with central heating versus living in unheated unsealed house in Mexico. Last February I took a Mexican friend with me to visit Anchorage Alaska. She was afraid of going to Alaska in the winter and none of my explanations reassured her. But the fact is that Alaska in February is more comfortable indoors than Guadalajara. Some friends from Idaho once told me that the coldest winter they ever spent was a winter in Querétaro. The only warm place that winter was in bed under the covers.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

TundraGreen has hit the nail on the head. I lived for 15+ years in the coldest national capital in the world. Temperatures of –30º C were not uncommon in January and February. But you can always find a place to get warm. The house has heat, so does your car, your office, your classroom, and all the stores. That’s the difference between living in a very cold climate and a climate that’s not quite cold enough to have central heating, but cold enough to suffer.

Winter nights and early mornings in the central highlands of Mexico (note that this includes Mexico City) are like a long weekend in October closing up a summer cottage that doesn’t have heating. The weather is already nippy and you suffer at night if you don’t have a warm sleeping bag. You know the feeling when the cold seeps into your bones and there’s literally nowhere to get warm.

Winter being the dry season in Mexico, it’s usually sunny every day and you can get relief from the cold by midday. The times when you really suffer is when there’s an unseasonable cloudy spell and it doesn’t warm up during the day. Then it’s like the cottage weekend, except you don’t know how long it’s going to last. Until I finally got smart and got a down duvet, I used to go to bed on the coldest nights wearing a sweater, hoodie, winter coat, mittens, sweatpants and socks.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

maesonna said:


> TundraGreen has hit the nail on the head. I lived for 15+ years in the coldest national capital in the world. Temperatures of –30º C were not uncommon in January and February. But you can always find a place to get warm. The house has heat, so does your car, your office, your classroom, and all the stores. That’s the difference between living in a very cold climate and a climate that’s not quite cold enough to have central heating, but cold enough to suffer.
> 
> Winter nights and early mornings in the central highlands of Mexico (note that this includes Mexico City) are like a long weekend in October closing up a summer cottage that doesn’t have heating. The weather is already nippy and you suffer at night if you don’t have a warm sleeping bag. You know the feeling when the cold seeps into your bones and there’s literally nowhere to get warm.
> 
> Winter being the dry season in Mexico, it’s usually sunny every day and you can get relief from the cold by midday. The times when you really suffer is when there’s an unseasonable cloudy spell and it doesn’t warm up during the day. Then it’s like the cottage weekend, except you don’t know how long it’s going to last. Until I finally got smart and got a down duvet, I used to go to bed on the coldest nights wearing a sweater, hoodie, winter coat, mittens, sweatpants and socks.


Just your description makes me want to snuggle warmly under my blankets, Maesonna. The older I get, the more cold intolerant I become. Growing up on a farm in Nebraska, with my bedroom on the unheated second floor of an old farmhouse, I would wake up to ice on the inside window panes. Multiple blankets and quilts plus sharing a bed with my sis kept us warm, and it was just normal to get dressed in a cold room (as fast as possible!). No longer. 

Our house in Tepoztlán is partway up the mountain, with an elevation of about 1940 m (6365 ft), and in Dec - Feb the average low temp is around 10 Celsius (50 Fahrenheit), although some nights it gets down to 8 C (46 F). Our house stays fairly warm, but even so I’ve told my husband I want a fireplace (I also happen to love fireplaces...) As a cold intolerant person, I don’t think I would ever settle in places like Puebla, where it can get down to 0 C (32 F) or less in Dec-Feb, or Mexico City, San Miguel or anywhere that it gets that cold at night, without central heating. Our daytime temperatures in Tepoztlán, even in Dec - Feb, are in the low to mid 20s C (70-77 F), making me a happy camper.


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## Lawgrrl (Apr 24, 2015)

There are robust English-speaking AA fellowships in Puerto Vallarta, San Miguel de Allende, and Ajijic, and a smaller community in Guadalajara (although we now have English NA, as well). Baja California also has a lot of recovery.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

The way I solved the the chill factor at my ranch near Dolores Hidalgo is when the adobe house was being built I had them build a Southwestern or Mexican style corner adobe fireplace with raised brick hearth. The chimney went all the way to the ceiling but was blocked 2 feet above the opening, I then installed a ventless gas log inside and 100% of the heat would fill the room with wonderful warmth...It came with a carbon monoxide safety built in......I had one in the living room and one in the master bedroom....


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