# Criminal Record Check



## Felix Krull

My fingerprints submitted to the FBI for a federal criminal record check have been rejected several times, now. They were done at the US consulate in Lisbon with ink and paper (and it was expensive!). 

So, I was wondering why I couldn't just submit a state criminal record check (e.g. New York / Florida etc) which doesn't require fingerprints and is cheap. If you had a federal criminal record it surely would come up on your state record check, so I don't see why it would be rejected by the Portugal Ministry of Internal Affairs or SEF.

Any US Citizens have experience with this issue?


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## canoeman

To the best of my knowledge SEF will only accept the FBI Criminal check and this is certainly not the first time I've heard of fingerprints taken at US Consulate Lisbon being rejected, personally I'd be having a barney with them on why and demanding some action and recompense


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## Felix Krull

canoeman said:


> this is certainly not the first time I've heard of fingerprints taken at US Consulate Lisbon being rejected


Yes, the person who does the fingerprinting is dubious. There is no official receipt and it turns out that this service has nothing to do with the consulate, i.e. it's someone exploiting ties to it. Further, fingerprinting technicians get training, real training to know how to raise fingerprints from people like me (with hard-to-read ones). 

I'd be interested to know if others had a similar experience at the Lisbon consulate because one person complaining is less effective than several.


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## canoeman

Under Portuguese Law a receipt must be issued, and you could report this service provider to the Portuguese Financas, so this is certainly something the Consulate should be made aware of or maybe the threat might be enough

bom dia Lisbon contributes to this forum she might be able to help

I appreciate it's not always possible but it's always far better to tackle these things and driving licence apostles etc whilst in the States not from afar


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## Felix Krull

canoeman said:


> it's always far better to tackle these things and driving licence apostles etc whilst in the States not from afar


Yes it's better, but this begs the question why there is a mechanism to naturalize through residency (if you have to go back to your country of origin to take advantage of it).

Anyway, back to my main question: as the state issued record check would surely also have your federal rap sheet in it, and having your prints rejected by the FBI more than once, as was my case, couldn't I make a case to the Ministry of Internal Affairs or SEF that that my state records check (with apostille, translated etc) is adequate. 

Any law experts out there 

Oh...I should add that I was successful in getting SEF to get me my permanent residency card in just a few days (instead of the 3 months minimum it's supposed to take) by writing a letter and providing evidence that it was necessary for employment purposes. To my surprise they went for it.


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## canoeman

If you read requirements for Residency then it states a FBI Criminal Check no Portuguese Official would accept anything less and the normal procedure for Residency is that it is applied for before entering Portugal not after, the only case I've heard is that a member did say someone had successfully done it from this end but it's the only time I've ever heard that and wonder whether it was just a renewal rather than an actual application.

You can certainly try that approach with SEF but I wouldn't count on success, but proof of employment is a different criteria and therefore far easier to get work permit residency etc but generally the emplyer has to make the application for Work permit not you


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## Felix Krull

I already have residency (and yes I got it on this end, so it is possible). I didn't need to present any kind of criminal record check to get either my residency or permanent residency. I did the first in 2009 and the second (upgrade to permanent) this year.

What my post is about is Portuguese citizenship not residency. 

Specifically, if the FBI criminal records check can be substituted by a state level one (as there are known and clear obstacles to the fingerprinting process, since the Sept 2014 implementation of the new system at the FBI. Massive delays and a lot of rejections).


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## canoeman

Well you didn't mention that, which makes a difference Citizenship is handled by the Conservatoria not SEF, I'm surprised that you didn't have to supply FBI checks when you applied for Residency, I would suggest that as you have now completed the required 6 years of legal Residency then you ask the question at the Conservatoria whether they will accept a US States Criminal check or must it be FBI or is it needed at all, and/or do you need a GNR Criminal check


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## Felix Krull

Sorry if I wasn't clear. When I mentioned naturalization, I thought that that could only mean citizenship. 

You're right that it's handled through the Conservatória do Registo Civil, and I have asked them. That's why I want a second opinion  

They aren't lawyers at the Conservatória, and they may not be up-to-date. In fact, civil servants here are not known typically for being 'proactive'. So, I though someone out there on the forum might have been able to turn in something else for their Record Check and might then share their experience with us, on this thread.


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## canoeman

At the end of the day as you must be aware it's what the Regulations and forms to be submitted say are reguired as to what they'll accept which will be up to date, if the form states you need a FBI check they won't accept anything less because it won't tick the box, so find out from Conservatoria what they reguire from you, this I believe is the form you reguire
http://www.irn.mj.pt/IRN/sections/i...0/Artigo_6-1_cheque.pdf?nocache=1328888631.14

Which you will see states a Portuguese Criminal check* or *other options, so you might not need the FBI ones


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## bom dia lisbon

Sorry, I don't have any experience with this question as I submitted my prints to the FBI when I was in the US, and fortunately they were accepted on the first attempt.

However, I have heard that having fingerprints rejected is not uncommon. I've read on the US Embassy in Lisbon's website that fingerprints are available for free for US citizens. Is this not the case? I understand you'll still have to send the processing fee to the FBI and pay for postage, but it should help a bit.


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## Felix Krull

bom dia lisbon said:


> I've read on the US Embassy in Lisbon's website that fingerprints are available for free for US citizens


Here's is what it says under "other important links" (FBI Records/Fingerprinting (PDF - 217 KB) on this page of the US Embassy: Information for Travelers and Residents | Embassy of the United States Lisbon, Portugal

"You may take your own fingerprints, have them taken at a local police station, or
have them taken at the U.S. Embassy COOP *for 60,00 Euros*."

What they don't say is that the person doing this, is untrained (as far as I can tell) and doesn't follow normal procedures. Furthermore, the receipt she gave was just a piece of paper. I'd have to look again, but I don't recall there being a tax number or anything. 

If you see a link somewhere that says it's free, do post it. I'd like my money back but I'd need proof that I was being ripped off


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## bom dia lisbon

I stand corrected, the official Embassy website does say 60 euros.

I had seen "free" on another Embassy web page, which I've just now managed to find. Apparently it is an old page and they have since changed the policy. I had thought it was too good to be true.

http://portugal.usembassy.gov/uploads/tt/Du/ttDui8zDEibz2SRDC0GaCQ/fbi_records_disclaimer.pdf


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## Felix Krull

Funnily enough, there appears to be a solution that allows you to avoid the FBI criminal record check completely, saving time and money: get 2 witnesses. 

That's right, at the Conservatório de Registo Civil, though they didn't tell me this the first three times I went there, they informed me that in the event your embassy in Portugal does not emit a criminal record check, you merely have to have two local witnesses sign a declaration at the Conservatório to attest to your innocence of any crime in your home country. 

I asked how anyone from Portugal would know if I had a criminal record in the States, and they told me, all that mattered was that those people would be held accountable if I was lying and did have a record. 

Color me gobsmacked, but I think I found the solution.


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## canoeman

What about the one that the "application form" I posted link for says a Portuguese Criminal Check OR


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## Felix Krull

Yes, your PDF does seem to state clearly "Portuguese Criminal check or other options"...and yet, when I tried to submit _only_ the Portuguese Criminal check, they told me at the Conservatório that not only was it unnecessary, but that the US Portuguese Criminal check was "mandatory". Maybe, I should print yours and bring it to them!

In any case, the "two witness" solution they offered yesterday is so much less hassle and less expensive than getting the record check, getting it notarized, getting an apostille, getting it shipped here, etc...that I am actually grateful, even if I can't figure out the logic of it


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## bom dia lisbon

Wow that's great news, thanks for following up with that info.

As I am only 2+ years with temporary residency so far, can you please clarify exactly what happens at year 5, and then at year 6? Do you end up as a citizen with full rights and a Portuguese passport? Or something else? Thanks!


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## canoeman

The criteria is that after 6 years legal Residence you can apply for Portuguese Citizenship otherwise you just change from a Resident to a Permanent Resident with single Nationality but the permanent Residence like a passport requires renewing every 10 years


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## bom dia lisbon

Thanks, I understand that in a general sense. But still not completely sure what bundle of rights comes with permanent residency vs nationality (right to vote, unlimited travel within EU, irrevocable, etc) and also criteria for approval (A2 language competency, etc).


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## canoeman

Permanent Residency just means that you can vote in Junta, Local & EU elections but not National, but no further rights that I'm aware of whether your a US or EU Citizen, except that Permanent Residency doesn't help much regarding travel to non Schegen countries it's still dictated by your US Passport

Nationality would add National Election voting and more freedom of travel on a Portuguese Passport not just EU, as your working? and covered by Social Security payments then the other major benefit not requiring private health insurance doesn't apply
A2 language competency is a set exam and verbal competency Conservatoria just reguire the Certificates


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## CPAKSU

hello guys , do u have any info. about police rec. in UK.? i wanna apply for the french citizenship , im turkish (non-European) and i lived in uk on 2011-15. so which kind of record do i need now? thanx a lot .


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