# Ex-pat Friendly?



## Morgan117 (Oct 26, 2015)

Hello. My name is Morgan and I'm happy to have found the group. I am considering moving to NZ, and I have enough money to buy property and invest in a business. I've read a lot about how great the people and the environment are there, but I've also read that there is an extraordinary amount of hate directed toward Americans, so I'm confused. I have a 9 year-old son, and I worry more for him. I don't really want to invest in a place where people are going to be telling him to "go home". Does anyone know if there's truth to the "hater" version of NZ? Maybe it's just a few people who have had bad experiences? What city is the best for bringing kids from other countries to NZ? Perhaps some places are more progressive than others? Thanks in advance for any advice.


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## julimat (Oct 22, 2015)

HHi Morgan. I will arrive there on January 2016, I'm latin american and I don't have the english as the native language. However I have been reading a lot and I have the perception that the ones that complains a lot are the young people. There's not enough technology there, they think this is a big farm. 

I think now the same, but it is just what I want for my kids. They are aged of 10 and 3. I know is going to be hard at first, especially for us, but we have a dream for a more secure world for my kids. 

Depends on you and your priorities what you want. Off course economically is better USA, but if you want a more quiet life and secure, maybe is for you. And if you have the money to do a business, which is my dream...you are going to be fine.

It is my opinion.

Juliana


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## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

Morgan117 said:


> Hello. My name is Morgan and I'm happy to have found the group. I am considering moving to NZ, and I have enough money to buy property and invest in a business. I've read a lot about how great the people and the environment are there, but I've also read that there is an extraordinary amount of hate directed toward Americans, so I'm confused. I have a 9 year-old son, and I worry more for him. I don't really want to invest in a place where people are going to be telling him to "go home". Does anyone know if there's truth to the "hater" version of NZ? Maybe it's just a few people who have had bad experiences? What city is the best for bringing kids from other countries to NZ? Perhaps some places are more progressive than others? Thanks in advance for any advice.


Well, yes, there is absolutely truth to the hater version of NZ, but it's generally covert, and I haven't found it to be a deal-breaker, and it probably really depends on your mindset. I moved here with no kids, so shrug off the garbage I read, and the semi-regular ignorant statements that come my way. However, good friends of ours (an American couple and their daughter who they moved with when she was about 9 or 10) wound up moving back to the US just this year after three years of trying to comfortably settle (they lived in Wellington, then Christchurch), and eventually found their daughter was simply subjected to too much regular bullying at school for being American, "all Americans are fat and stupid," the usual crap like that, plus she was spat on once by a boy in school, and another time was grabbed and screamed at by a high school mom who mistook her for someone the mom's daughter had a beef with. I do say for parents with kids, to be very careful in bringing your kids over ... make sure they have good self esteem, because the youth here (much like the adults) have a very peculiar love/hate relationship with America/Americans. They diss and put down the US when they can (the school kids), yet walk around rocking Converse/Vans/DC, NBA snap-back caps, etc ... it's kind of bizarre, in a way, but, it's the way it is. The upside to living here if you feel your child is tough enough to withstand the teasing (which starts about middle school, when kids start realizing there's such a thing as "us vs them" mentality), is that it really is a great place to raise a child in terms of recreation and outdoor experience... experiences that are actually part of a regular lifestyle of living, not "planned" holidays or vacations, but things you just fall into a pattern of doing because it's cheap, easy, and accessible: camping, hiking, climbing, boating, etc...
Also, I think it's fair to say that you if quickly settle into an area you like, and get your kid immediately involved in sports or scouts, or something that comes with "built in" friends, and work to ensure they all go to the same school... a buffer of friends goes a long way in helping kids survive the ups and downs of what they'll face as a transplant. I don't know that there is any particular place that is better than others ... Auckland is very large, and thus more cosmopolitan, but if that's what you want, would you even need to leave the US for that experience?

Adults in general aren't that way to your face ... they just have some very odd, stereotypical beliefs about America and Americans, and that can result in some really weird firm ideas they have, despite most never having set foot inside the nation. I just use my contact with them to nick away at the cliches people have about Americans. 
I've been to one "peaceful" protest in the city I live in, and was very disappointed to hear a group of folks start up a "death to America" chant ... my kiwi husband and kids were there, and as sad and disappointed as I was, they all were pretty sickened and mortified by it. Another time I was chased down in a parking lot by an old lady who started yelling at me for not using my blinker in the parking lot (it's private property and not subject to that road rule), yelling about how kiwis drive properly (ha!), BUT, I had a "California born" sticker on my SUV, and at the time there was a rash of incidents where kiwis were stopping tourists who they found to be driving badly and berating them or confiscating their keys to their rental cars, so I think perhaps she might have been caught up in the national phenomenon of the time of hating on "foreign" drivers ... it was pretty weird. Once I had a salesman turn up at my door hoping to sign our household to sponsor some charity ... he heard my accent and asked where I was from, I answered, and I think before he even thought about it, out popped: eh, I just got back from a trip there, and didn't like it. I think the shocked look on my face must have told a story: you knock on my door, ask where I'm from, tell me you don't like the place, and think I'm going to sponsor you with my money? LOL
But, I've lived here for four years, and that's really been the extent of my *personal* (overt) anti-American experience. 

Most of the anti-American sentiment is just an undercurrent that threads through the media (and of course, perpetuates stereotypes). Most of the news stories are the most bizarre and exploitative types to be found, consequently, a lot of the reader comments will be quite disparaging of America/Americans in general. It might bother you at first, then you just have to not give a cuss about it if you want to feel relaxed about living here. If you've lived abroad before, you'll already know that your accent will always give you away immediately, so you'll have to be ready for people to ask where you're from, and "how long you're visiting for" ... and you'll have to be ready to accept that many of our western "allies" have very jaded views of America/Americans. You have to decide whether you'll want to make your own life decisions based on how well you may or may not be received. 

So, generally, it's not terrible, but it's not always kind and easy, either, especially from a child's perspective, BUT, I don't think it's impossible. My kiwi daughter has a few other American friends that seem to be doing fine ... they still get teased as well on occasion, but seem to have found their rhythm and voice in sticking up for themselves.
Ultimately it is safer here, and aside from the very real risk of alcohol use (the drinking age is 18 here), hard drugs and bad behavior at least *appear* to be less of an issue than in the US, so you'll want to weigh things up for your family and decide what makes the most sense, what are the risks in staying, what are the risks in going; what are the upsides, downsides, etc. 

Cheers!


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## Morgan117 (Oct 26, 2015)

Thanks Kimbrella! That's exactly what I needed to know. My son is an artistic type, sensitive, and there's no way I'm going to subject him to that. I've lived in Europe for 10 years, and I'm done with that kind of thing. I want to invest in somewhere special, and above all, safe. And I think it's irresponsible of the NZ government to continue sending me materials, and emails, telling me how great it would be for my family to move there. Wow! So... you really want my money, but you hate me, and my county. Nice! They should attach that to all their attempts to get me to invest... "Our beaches are great, but our hate filled kids will beat up your kids". If they don't like us, why don't they just put on the website and be done with it? Why take the tourist money, the film money, and the investment money? No hate for that? How can they be so much better if they're fine with lying to the world about how friendly and tolerant they are? I really do appreciate your honesty. If it were just me, I wouldn't care, but my son deserves better. So... my search for a good investment continues.


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## Morgan117 (Oct 26, 2015)

Thanks for your reply. I completely understand your motives as a parent. Good luck.


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## Kimbella (Jul 4, 2013)

Morgan117 said:


> Thanks Kimbrella! That's exactly what I needed to know. My son is an artistic type, sensitive, and there's no way I'm going to subject him to that. I've lived in Europe for 10 years, and I'm done with that kind of thing. I want to invest in somewhere special, and above all, safe. And I think it's irresponsible of the NZ government to continue sending me materials, and emails, telling me how great it would be for my family to move there. Wow! So... you really want my money, but you hate me, and my county. Nice! They should attach that to all their attempts to get me to invest... "Our beaches are great, but our hate filled kids will beat up your kids". If they don't like us, why don't they just put on the website and be done with it? Why take the tourist money, the film money, and the investment money? No hate for that? How can they be so much better if they're fine with lying to the world about how friendly and tolerant they are? I really do appreciate your honesty. If it were just me, I wouldn't care, but my son deserves better. So... my search for a good investment continues.



I don't think any kiwi would say they "hate" Americans, but they'll have some preformed opinions of America as a nation and government ... and some *will* openly show their hostility online ... "yanks" "bigots" "war hawks" that sort of thing, and of course, because the main source of American news is from the media who want to present the most dramatic take on things in order to pull readers and watchers in, they pick the lowest hanging fruit... all the crazy stupid domestic stuff that rarely effects the average American, but nonetheless is still a part of American "culture." 
Since you've lived abroad, I sense you've encountered this elsewhere, so know it's not especially rare or uncommon... that idea that Americans are fat and stupid, with guns in their waistbands, and nukes in the basement. Because New Zealand is so far and remote, there can be a fair bit of insular and indulgent arrogance in believing what they read on the internet or see on the news. And, while they're enamored with their nation (and rightly so), it can often feel like it's at the expense of any sort of generous or charitable thinking about other nations...especially ones they view as bigger, badder, etc. I find the national self esteem problem to be one of the biggest bummers about living here, actually, but it's really only evident in the news media, who for some reason really like to perpetuate the whole "us vs them" mentality... 
I wouldn't really say that kiwis are friendly, but more polite ... which is different than friendliness. They're generally more reserved than Americans, and can take our openness and chattiness as "fakeness' when all we're doing is trying to make a bond. The reservedness can come across as coldness, or even awkwardness, but people do eventually warm up, but it's not a "sharing" society like we have in the US.
I do think they're mostly tolerant though... it might simply be out of apathy, but at least it's not overt opposition to lifestyles like we have in the US. Touching on that, though, does remind me of what I do miss the most here, and that is the *passion* of people ... political, social, etc. It doesn't exist here like it does in N America (and parts of Europe). People don't like to rock the boat here, and Tall Poppy Syndrome is a *real* thing here. 
Because of your sons sensitive side, it's not a stretch to imagine he would be the subject of teasing, and if he's not in a psychological position to shrug that off, it could be pretty painful depending on his personality. 
I don't want you to have the impression that NZ sucks, only that it can be gruff and judgmental about outsiders, more so with certain nationalities. For me, I've found that I still prefer living here because it's so much more placid and safe than most medium to large cities in the US. But, perhaps that says more about my feelings about the US than it does about NZ. I'll always love where I was born and raised, but it's become a nuthouse that I could never return to unless it became less politically polarized. To that end, NZ is heads above the US in terms of having a carefree and liberated life, in that you simply aren't bombarded with polarizing political issues, money issues, consumer ads, etc, like you are in the US. 
If your choice was only between returning to the US, and moving to NZ, I would definitely be recommending you come to NZ (depending on where in the US you were going, of course). But, since you have the means to keep searching for the absolute best fit for your family, I'd say keep NZ on the back-burner, perhaps, but keep doing your due diligence.


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## Foxilady (May 31, 2015)

Years ago my kiwi husband managed Heathcotes. He encountered boatloads of rude uppity Americans. His experience with the tourist/wealthy left him with a sour taste in his mouth. His view changed upon moving to the US. His family has also visited and have nothing but positive things to say. My Kiwi family will admit to feeling a bit animosity towards Americans, only because they suffer from "small man syndrome" and the young ones are very envious


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## jawnbc (Apr 28, 2012)

I think you need to differentiate between ignorant kiwis whose ideas about the US are based on hollywood films and tabloid news, and those who are worldly, have lived abroad and subsequently have significantly reasoned issues with aspects of American culture and government policy. Mostly it's the guns, patriotism and religiosity. 

For every American I know who found this challenging I know at least as many who understand the difference. Of the folks I know who've stuck around more than a couple of years, most look back at their own experiences with American culture and say "yeah, nah, wouldn't want to go back to that." Things that a lot of American ex-pats struggle with here is the cost of living and sense of isolation, though Amazon ships to NZ and if you've got the resources to get back to see folks in the US every year, it's totally manageable. I have one friend who tried to recreate his US-based cultural life through downloading TV content. Took him a couple of years to accept that he wasn't doing himself any favours: either live in NZ or live in the US--bring bits with you, but if you want California (or Seattle or wherehaveyou) go live there. They're not Auckland, Christchurch or Wellington: this is a different country. 

Having said that, Americans and some South Africans are two of the groups that seem to struggle a bit more with kiwi culture and fitting in than folks from Australia, the UK, Canada. There can be an intensity of personality--aggression, arguably--that rubs people the wrong way. Dialling it back helps a lot. 

It also depends on where you settle: smaller town NZ seems to treat anyone not born here as an outsider: my in-laws are English and their kids still cop teasing, even though one was 1 year old when she moved here and the other one was born here. Different sort of teasing, but teasing nonetheless. My sister-in-law finds their community--a small semi-rural one north of Auckland--very insular and gossipy. But she's a Londoner--and used to the ability to be a bit anonymous when it suits. We live in Auckland proper and find people often either have lived abroad themselves or have parents who emigrated. What we have 12km from the city centre we couldn't contemplate in Canada, Australia or the US, in terms of lifestyle. 

I've lived in NYC, Vancouver, Sydney and Auckland and I'm a dual US/Canadian citizen. I would say Aussies get razzed much worse in NZ than Americans do.


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## Morgan117 (Oct 26, 2015)

I appreciate the perspectives.


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## hyweldavies (Jun 7, 2014)

We are British but moved here after spending 5 years in the US. Our kids have settled in great and we find the country and our new friends fantastic. It isn't the States and if you keep on comparing NZ to it and focusing on the negative differences then I guess you could end up alienated. In the States, no shoes, no shirt no service, here no shoes, no shirt - its Summer in School !

There are not as many programs (Summer Camps, Holiday Activities) but a lot of sports clubs and the cost of the clubs is much less than we found for a lot of camps etc in the States. You just have to take a breath and step out to make a network here.


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