# Tax concerns in the UK, please help :(



## pauly.mcnamara (Nov 30, 2011)

I left UK a few years ago but planning to return sometime this year. My problem however is when I left the UK in 2002, I just completed my studies and had no job prior to that, I was unaware if I was supposed to inform HMRC of me leaving the country for a few years. I got a job abroad in France and went there and paid all my taxes there. From there, I moved to the US and lawfully filed all the taxes here. 

As I mentioned above, even though I left UK I did not inform HMRC I left and they, on two separate occasions, send me self-assessment tax form at my parents place. They forwarded my mail to the US as, over the last few years, I have been planning to return back to the UK because of my dad's illness. My salary in the US is relatively low ($25K/year) and I paid all my taxes and in the UK self-assessment form I stated I am not working in the UK but did not mention being abroad as I did not want to get taxed twice. I also had no idea what I am suppose to do especially if my intentions are to return back and how not to get taxed twice. Anyways, my dad died a short while back and I am desperate to return back to the UK and hopefully will this year. 

My question is, what and how I am suppose to inform HMRC about my situation? I will be unemployed when I return back and I have all my evidences of paying taxes in both France and the US. Please help


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## MaryDom (Feb 23, 2012)

This is not something to worry about at all. As you were not working before you left the UK there was no obligation to notify HMRC.

You did the correct thing by sending back the self-assessment form telling them you were not working in the UK.

When you do eventually return and start working, you can then notify HMRC that you are back in the country adn working.


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## Newforestcat (Mar 14, 2012)

*Important*

Hi,

I am not sure if my post is a little late. YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING. 

Are you 100% sure that they are no outstanding SA tax returns? 

WARNINGS:- 
If you are unsure if they were indeed SA tax returns, call HMRC to ask if you are required to do any more SA tax returns. HAVE personal info handy or you fail your security questions. 

If you do fail security check, ask for an address so you can write in for the info needed. But letters and form can take a long time to be dealt with. Then either call HMRC again if you think you may pass or write in for confirmation:

SA tax returns needed? Advise HMRC that you just came back from working abroad since.... ALSO attach a completed P86 Returning to UK form which can be downloaded from hmrc.gov.uk

If you pass security, ask HMRC if there are any outstanding return you need to do and if you need to do one for current tax year. Ask them where to send your P86 as you just returned from overseas. If there are outstanding 


Please note that, as rules regarding penalties, etc have been changed, after all your outstanding returns are processed by HMRC if there is something to pay such as penalties that you strongly disagree with a solid reason, you may appeal. But it has to be done in writing ASAP. The word APPEAL has to be used on your letter (s) to avoid delay! 

Depending on related tax years:-

Current rules,

Even if you have nothing to pay from an outstanding tax return, penalties may still stand.Appeal against penalties, taxes and interests in writing urgently only. Clearly state that you wish to appeal against... Because...

Old rules,

Late SA Partnership tax returns with no tax due, penalties still stand.
Late individual SA tax returns with no tax due, penalties CAPPED to zero.





pauly.mcnamara said:


> I left UK a few years ago but planning to return sometime this year. My problem however is when I left the UK in 2002, I just completed my studies and had no job prior to that, I was unaware if I was supposed to inform HMRC of me leaving the country for a few years. I got a job abroad in France and went there and paid all my taxes there. From there, I moved to the US and lawfully filed all the taxes here.
> 
> As I mentioned above, even though I left UK I did not inform HMRC I left and they, on two separate occasions, send me self-assessment tax form at my parents place. They forwarded my mail to the US as, over the last few years, I have been planning to return back to the UK because of my dad's illness. My salary in the US is relatively low ($25K/year) and I paid all my taxes and in the UK self-assessment form I stated I am not working in the UK but did not mention being abroad as I did not want to get taxed twice. I also had no idea what I am suppose to do especially if my intentions are to return back and how not to get taxed twice. Anyways, my dad died a short while back and I am desperate to return back to the UK and hopefully will this year.
> 
> My question is, what and how I am suppose to inform HMRC about my situation? I will be unemployed when I return back and I have all my evidences of paying taxes in both France and the US. Please help


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## Newforestcat (Mar 14, 2012)

PLEASE IGNORE MY PERVIOUS POST COMPLETELY! I shall repost later! Sorry!


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## Newforestcat (Mar 14, 2012)

THIS IS WHAT I MEANT TO SAY! Sorry, I will never post when I am sleepy again. Very bad of me! Basiccally, the info on in my first post here is correct but does not apply to you, Pauley. I hope not anyway. 


Hi,

I am not sure if my post is a little late. Bear with me if I am confusing. I need to go to bed soon.

YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING: 

submit P86 Returning to the UK form which can be downloaded from hmrc.gov.uk. 
Check if tax affairs are up-to-date, call HMRC. Also ask where P86 should be sent if needed. 

*** Through P86 and P85 (leaving the UK form), HMRC can determine your residency status in order to give you a tax code, assuming that you will be working in UK in the near future, or work out your tax liability/refund from the tax year you left or have left the UK. P85 also help them determine if double-taxation is needed if you have worked both abroad and in the UK in the same tax year. Double-taxation does not mean you get taxed in both UK and adopted country. It is merely there to stop you from being taxed twice. Generally, you only pay tax in one country. HMRC by law have to be fair and honest and are only supposed to take the right amount of tax from you, theoretically.

When you are going to be employed again, without any p45 from 6/4/12 onwards (from UK employers, private pension (ie from inheritance) or DWP for JSA), your employer MUST fill a p46 for you. Either P45 or P46 is the case, remind them, if the job is going to be your only source of employment income, that means they need TO PUT YOU ON the usual week 1 /emergency tax code (NOT BR or D0 week 1) until they get HMRC tax coding notification for you. 

If you are going self-employed, you must notify HMRC ASAP on Newly Self-emp Helpline or you may be fined. You may be asked to do some more forms to fill in gaps on your records such as P85 leaving the UK form (s) or more P86(s) depending on your situation.

Emergency week1 tax codes (except sometimes BR week 1 or D0 week1) is normally not going to take too much tax off you, despite the name! The week 1 suffix is merely stopping in-year tax refund from being given or you get too much repayment. You need this kind of week1 code, if you have had taxable income from other employments, UK private pensions (maybe from inheritance) or JSA from the past but only in the same tax year and HMRC cannot be sure about the gross pay and tax figures from all in-year previous source (s). Assuming you are going to be employed before say mid March as long as you at least get your first pay package before 6 /4/13, your tax code can depend on your residency status. I am no expert re residency hence you need P86. 

***** ON P86 if you are claiming JSA and they let you (I don't know anything about JSA, never claim any), you need to include the weekly amount plus how many weeks and gross income from USA and tax from 6/4/12 onwards if possible.***** JSA is not usually taxed at source but if it is, include gross payment and tax deduction. This means you could have extra tax to pay after the year has ended due to JSA.

Also check with HMRC if there are any outstanding returns (if yes, then request and submit them ASAP). Also because you have been working abroad, check if you need to do SA tax return for this tax year which will be issued next April, depending on when you stopped working in USA! Any questions re foreign income, residency, call HMRC and ask for a tax technician or a callback from one.

Useful Note:

- hope this won't be your issue- If there are penalties from outstanding tax returns and if you, with solid reason, wish to appeal, write in clearly say that you wish to appeal against... (Penalties/interests/tax) Because... ASAP.

- each tax year is from April 6 to 5April following year.

- ALWAYS try to update HMRC with your IN-YEAR employment income and tax , takening into account the tax year you are in ONLY this means if you are to start a new job and your most recent P45 from DWP, pension provider, or employer was from a/the previous tax year, you need your new emp to submit P46 for you, instead. Do keep copies or if possible originals of any forms with figures of pay and tax as well as NI and or pension contributions such as payslips, p45, P60 and SA tax calculations.

On P46, you need to pick the correct option truthfully to get the correct tax code or you pay too much or too little tax. Each tax year will be re-conciled later either automatically or manually:- 

P46 OPTIONS:

1) is it your main job (implying you also have more employment (s), and/or private pension/ Incapacity benefit source (s),

2) is it your first and only job since current tax year began (this has been your only employment, private pension or JSA or Incapacity Benefit source), 

3) is this your second job ( has your tax-free personal allowance already been fully given to other source(s) such as emp, private pension, IN-YEAR benefits which is/are on-going or already ceased such as JSA and incapacity benefits? If yes, then this second job/ private pension/ on-going JSA / Incapcity Benefit has no allowance left to use, so it has to be taxed at your highest rates of tax ie 20% or 40% by being on BR or BR Week 1 and D0 or D0Week1 respectively.
* you usually have one main PAYE source and as many second sources for the tax purposes only. It makes no difference to you!* 

SUMMARY

In short, you (under 65's) only have approx £6-7K tax-free allowance to offset you earned income from the same tax year. If there is some allowance left over it can go to taxable unearned income such as savngs, rental, etc. Earned income= employments, private pensions (from early retirement or inheritance), TAXABLE govt social benefits for UK citizen/some residents under retirement age such as JSA, Incapacity benefits, some Widows State Pensions generally last for 53 weeks and self-employment (which is optional). 

It is easiest to leave SE income for Self Assessment to deal with. BUT do bear in mind that your tax will only be re-conciled when you have submitted you SA tax return and you MUST include gross pay from all your earned income and tax deductions as well as all your taxable other income such as taxed or untaxed savings, etc. 

Mostly gross pay figures are required and tax already paid at source MUST be included. You only have one set of tax-free allowance each year, when you self-assess you MUST duplicate ALL TAXABLE income and tax either you think HMRC have the info or not! That is why it is called Self Assessment! Omitting something, you will either underpay or overpay. It MAY only make no difference if you are not a tax-payer that year ie you did not earn more than your tax-free allowance. 

MULTIPLE SOURCES WITH SMALL INCOME:-

Depending on income from each source, you can choose how you allocate your £6-7 K allowance, in case you have income from multiple sources. If you have many sources with small income, DO try to estimate each source's income and give the info to HMRC in March-May in order that your in-year tax is not going badly wrong. It could help you get it perfectly correct! Phoning HMRC is the quickest way, if you get through. Every time your income is going up or down, tell HMRC ASAP. 
If in doubt, go on their site or contact them.

To pay the correct tax depends mostly on you, HMRC, without your help, can only use the most updated info about you which is usually a year old! Tax codes are done on this basis, you give them estimated income from each source, your tax sould hopefully be correct. If you self-assess, putting ALL TAXABLE INCOME AND TAX on your return (in the CORRECT BOXES) will sort everything out, but updating you on-going tax year's tax codes correctly, you should have no more tax due from PAYE meaning, anything else do is from non-PAYE only. Being in control this way minimises shocks and financial emergencies and you don't want to get tax refunds because you possibly over-paid at least 12 months ago, you'd be better off with it kept in your pocket!

In theory, my info may not all technically correct. It is hard to simplify tax matters. There are exceptions that I know off but have not mentioned them here, as they are pretty uncommon. You are warned!


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## Newforestcat (Mar 14, 2012)

* you usually have one main PAYE source and as many second sources for the tax purposes only. It makes no difference to you!* 

*** there are many more tax codes not mentioned here, some with extra allowancen and/or deductions. With multiple source income, you may have Basic /High rate restriction etc in your code. Do ask HMRC to explain. It is a difficult task!


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## nikkisizer (Aug 20, 2011)

pauly.mcnamara said:


> I left UK a few years ago but planning to return sometime this year. My problem however is when I left the UK in 2002, I just completed my studies and had no job prior to that, I was unaware if I was supposed to inform HMRC of me leaving the country for a few years. I got a job abroad in France and went there and paid all my taxes there. From there, I moved to the US and lawfully filed all the taxes here.
> 
> As I mentioned above, even though I left UK I did not inform HMRC I left and they, on two separate occasions, send me self-assessment tax form at my parents place. They forwarded my mail to the US as, over the last few years, I have been planning to return back to the UK because of my dad's illness. My salary in the US is relatively low ($25K/year) and I paid all my taxes and in the UK self-assessment form I stated I am not working in the UK but did not mention being abroad as I did not want to get taxed twice. I also had no idea what I am suppose to do especially if my intentions are to return back and how not to get taxed twice. Anyways, my dad died a short while back and I am desperate to return back to the UK and hopefully will this year.
> 
> My question is, what and how I am suppose to inform HMRC about my situation? I will be unemployed when I return back and I have all my evidences of paying taxes in both France and the US. Please help


Hi pauly.mcnamara,

If HMRC have not contacted you since you filed your tax returns then they have no further questions so you have nothing to worry about.

If they have contacted you and you are unsure of what to do next I am happy to help if required so please do not hesitate to contact me should you require any further assistance.

Kind regards


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