# Moving from Thailand to Spain



## Loiner (Jul 26, 2020)

Looking for advice..
I an British and my wife it Thai with a British passport. We retired to Thailand five years ago. Unfortunately if one moves to Thailand the UK pension is frozen in value.
The exchange rate has dropped severely and we have about 30% less a month than when we arrived here. I also have regular medications to buy and we are Now struggliNg a bit financially here. Thailand is not cheap anymore.

We have nothing in UK so we don't want to go back there.
I understand hospitals are free in Spain. We can raise about £60-70,000. Is this enough to buy a small apartment on a coast somewhere in Spain?
I am unfamiliar with the Brexit situation in Spain. Do you think there could be any impact on retirement there for us?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Loiner said:


> Looking for advice..
> I an British and my wife it Thai with a British passport. We retired to Thailand five years ago. Unfortunately if one moves to Thailand the UK pension is frozen in value.
> The exchange rate has dropped severely and we have about 30% less a month than when we arrived here. I also have regular medications to buy and we are Now struggliNg a bit financially here. Thailand is not cheap anymore.
> 
> ...


:welcome:

In order to benefit from 'free' healthcare via an S1 - that's a form via which UK govt pays for your healthcare in Spain when you are in receipt of a state pension - & for your pension to be uprated - you'll have to move here & be registered before the end of December this year.

Prescriptions aren't free in most of the country, but most pensioners pay about 10% of the cost of medication.

After 31st December, because of Brexit there will be no more S1s & a couple will need private healthcare insurance & be able to prove an annual income of around 32.000€. That's for a 1 year non-lucrative visa. After a year you apply for a 2 year renewal.

I'll leave the property issue to other members to answer.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Unfortunately I don't think your budget would buy an apartment on the coast anywhere along the Costa del Sol (can't speak for other areas of Spain). Don't forget that the property transfer tax is 8% on resale properties under €400k in Andalucia (and is higher in some other regions), plus there are the legal and notary fees to pay. Buyers are always advised to budget between 11 and 13% on top of the purchase price to cover these items, so that effectively lowers the price you can pay for a property. Even a studio (one room apartment with small bathroom) would generally cost around €80k plus the buying costs in a coastal location down here. Also, if you bought an apartment and your income is limited, don't forget there would also be community fees (maintenance charges) to pay each month as well as the other utilities and local property tax.

Small village houses (which don't have monthly maintenance charges) could still be bought within your budget but they would be in locations some way inland with probably not much in the way of amenities close by, which would make running a car essential again adding to living expenses.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

You will struggle to get anything fairly good as 70.000 euros would mean around a price of 63.000 euros. That's small for a flat even in a cheap place ( not a major city) Its possible yes but it will be small. Sure you will see houses in the middle of nowhere for 50.000 but there will be reason


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## Loiner (Jul 26, 2020)

So After December I would need 32000 Euros to live in Spain?! Are you sure? That seems a ridiculous amount of money for pensioner. What if you don't have it?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Loiner said:


> So After December I would need 32000 Euros to live in Spain?! Are you sure? That seems a ridiculous amount of money for pensioner. What if you don't have it?


That is the amount currently required for a pensioner and spouse from any non EU country wanting to obtain a non lucrative visa (ie for people who will not be working in Spain) in order to be able to live here. And from 1 January 2021 UK citizens will not be EU citizens.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Loiner said:


> So After December I would need 32000 Euros to live in Spain?! Are you sure? That seems a ridiculous amount of money for pensioner. What if you don't have it?


Well, that's price of Brexit. Currently, two standard UK state pensions are enough to meet the residence requirement as EU citizens (or one state and one average occupational pension), plus you get free state healthcare for life. All this will be taken away at the end of December when the transition period ends (UK formally left EU at the end of January), and Britons will then be treated as third-country nationals, the same as Americans, Australians, Russians, Thai and Chinese etc. Spain can then cherry-pick only well-to-do expats who will make lots of contribution to local economy. 
If you can't meet the requirement from January, it simply means you can't live in Spain, only holiday there for 90-in-180 days. This will be the same everywhere in EU, plus Norway, Iceland and Switzerland. You have no choice but to return to UK, or find other countries willing to take Britons and where the pound goes further.


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## Loiner (Jul 26, 2020)

Well I am shocked to be honest. I didn't know about this requirement. It seems very unfaIr. 
Looks like Spain is off the agenda. I don't tHink we could get there before Dec. We only have about £1000 month income.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Loiner said:


> Well I am shocked to be honest. I didn't know about this requirement. It seems very unfaIr.
> Looks like Spain is off the agenda. I don't tHink we could get there before Dec. We only have about £1000 month income.


It's not unlike the new UK immigration rules, where people wishing to move to the UK will have to earn a minimum amount and also pay the NHS surcharge in addition to the income tax and national insurance they pay.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Loiner said:


> So After December I would need 32000 Euros to live in Spain?! Are you sure? That seems a ridiculous amount of money for pensioner. What if you don't have it?


Then the person in question will not get the required visa and will not be able to legally reside in Spain, same as all countries that are not in the EU that don't have a special agreement with Spain like people from the US and Canada. It will be similar in other EU countries I would imagine


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## Miss Jones11 (Jul 13, 2020)

Loiner said:


> Looking for advice..
> I an British and my wife it Thai with a British passport. We retired to Thailand five years ago. Unfortunately if one moves to Thailand the UK pension is frozen in value.
> The exchange rate has dropped severely and we have about 30% less a month than when we arrived here. I also have regular medications to buy and we are Now struggliNg a bit financially here. Thailand is not cheap anymore.
> 
> ...


Go to Embajada española and get the facts. They speak English.
123 Ratchadaphisek Rd, Khlong Toei, Bangkok 10110, Thailand.
There is a nice coffee shop outside. Beware of touts offering guaranteed Spanish visas for a fee.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Loiner said:


> So After December I would need 32000 Euros to live in Spain?! Are you sure? That seems a ridiculous amount of money for pensioner. What if you don't have it?


If you do not have it then you cannot live here after the end of this year!
Plus, if not registered before the end of this year I think you can’t qualify for S1 healthcare either do you would have to have private medical cover, but if I’m wrong someone will correct me.

This is what living in the EU is for anyone outside of Europe, as someone else said it’s similar to the U.K. even there there is now a healthcare sum payable. It’s the way of the world now.

As an aside, we are two people, living off grid and have no utility bills etc, state health cover as I’m self employed, I think even a basic lifestyle will not afford your much on £1000 a month allowing for the various exchange rates, which still will apply to Soain also , and again someone will correct me if I’m wrong, I’m unsure whether or not uplift of pensions will continue If you register after the end of this year?

Sadly, i suspect you will be one of many hundreds coming to these boards in the coming months not understanding the new procedures and rules etc 

Wishing you good luck


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

If you think that Thailand is no longer cheap (and I admit, it is not as cheap as it used to be in relative terms), Spain, or Europe in general is not for you.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Loiner said:


> So After December I would need 32000 Euros to live in Spain?! Are you sure? That seems a ridiculous amount of money for pensioner. What if you don't have it?


That's Brexit for you. If you don't have that amount of income plus your health insurance then you don't get in.

70000euros wouldn't buy you a small parking space in most of the province of Malaga. Spain isn't really 'cheap' any more and sterling is low against the euro. Some people here have lost a large percentage of their income over the past twenty years or more.

Most non-EU countries require a level of income for anyone wishing to become resident and post December the U.K. will be a non-EU state.

There are Brits who've been living here 'under the radar' for years who are now running around like headless chickens trying to get themselves sorted before it's too late. I have little if any sympathy for them as they've had four years to get themselves legal and believe it or not some of them even voted to leave the E.U.

Life will be very different in the future.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Oh and don't waste your time going to the Spanish Embassy or the Embassy of any E.U. member state. We don't always get things right here but on this one we know what we're talking about.

If in doubt then contact the U.K. Government Brexit advice line.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

You can buy a two-bed house or flat for less than €50,000 in the town where I live. It's about 45 minutes from the Costa de la Luz (Atlantic coast). The town has all the facilities you need - health centre, dentists, social services, inter-urban buses, an olympic-size swimming pool etc - but you do need to be reasonably fluent in Spanish to make the most of living here. 

There are hundreds of towns like this all over the country, but they tend to get overlooked in favour of places people have actually heard of.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> You can buy a two-bed house or flat for less than €50,000 in the town where I live. It's about 45 minutes from the Costa de la Luz (Atlantic coast). The town has all the facilities you need - health centre, dentists, social services, inter-urban buses, an olympic-size swimming pool etc - but you do need to be reasonably fluent in Spanish to make the most of living here.
> 
> There are hundreds of towns like this all over the country, but they tend to get overlooked in favour of places people have actually heard of.


That may well be but the OP can't meet the income requirements post December 31 and presumably has a property to sell before thinking of purchasing another.

At current exchange rates £1000 will produce under 1100 euros, out of which IBI, water, electricity will need to be paid. No matter how comparatively inexpensive one town may be compared to another, basic necessities need to be met. Then there's the cost of repairing or replacing ageing equipment. I've just unleashed a volley of palabrotes at being told that it will cost me almost 400 euros to repair damage done to my car when I stupidly left off the handbrake and it rolled into the garden wall.

I live casi campo casi pueblo and Estepona has excellent inter-urban bus services but I need a car to get me from where I live to those bus services, to shops , to the town itself.

Living simply and even frugally is an ideal life style - if by choice - for some . I live simply but not frugally as I'm no longer young and I enjoy simple but good creature comforts in my old age. I've passed through the living frugally stage and not through choice. Who knows what will happen to the exchange rate post Brexit and with a second COVID outbreak and the concomitant preventive measures looking likely..

The truth is that post Brexit Spain or any EU member state will not be accessible to retired people without good occupational pensions or some other source of income. Life may well be less easy for some already resident here. I think we'll need a couple of years at least for things to settle down.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> That may well be but the OP can't meet the income requirements post December 31 and presumably has a property to sell before thinking of purchasing another.


Yes I know, but I was just pointing out that your comment about €70,000 not being able to buy even a small parking space doesn't apply in much of the country, for anyone else reading this thread. 

An English couple have just bought a nice little townhouse here for €35,000, just needs about €5k to modernise the kitchen and bathroom and voilá, a nice little holiday home with stunning mountain views less than an hour from the best beaches in Spain.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> Yes I know, but I was just pointing out that your comment about €70,000 not being able to buy even a small parking space doesn't apply in much of the country, for anyone else reading this thread.
> 
> An English couple have just bought a nice little townhouse here for €35,000, just needs about €5k to modernise the kitchen and bathroom and voilá, a nice little holiday home with stunning mountain views less than an hour from the best beaches in Spain.


However, what the OP wanted to know was

"We can raise about £60-70,000. Is this enough to buy a small apartment on a coast somewhere in Spain?"

I would imagine Mary, like myself, was pointing out that for his budget an apartment on the coast, in this area, is not going to be achievable.

However, a brief look at www.idealista.com shows that in other provinces (Almeria in Andalucia, or Alicante on the Costa Blanca, for example, there are indeed small apartments on the coast which can be bought for under €60k. Perhaps the OP would like to have a browse around that site.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> However, what the OP wanted to know was
> 
> "We can raise about £60-70,000. Is this enough to buy a small apartment on a coast somewhere in Spain?"
> 
> ...


Well, he’d have to move with the speed of light to sell any property he has in Thailand - we assume that’s the case- get NIE, residencia and the S1 from the DWP before December 31st. I read somewhere that applying for a stage one appointment in 
Malaga for this province of Andalucia has to be made before October 31st. Don’t know how true that is. A lot of conflicting ‘advice’ around at the moment. And to add to that, possibility of more confinement because of COVID spikes.

Yes, of course there are cheaper properties, its the same anywhere in the world, I guess. But people who aren’t accustomed to being globetrotters and are merely looking for a retirement home that suits them aren’t usually Chritopher Columbus types...sorry I should have said Cristöbal Colon, how un pc of me They may have visited a place before on holiday or seen in on tv and liked the look of it. They may have family or friends there. They may simply want to be with other people like them, a deep seated human instinct.

For all those reasons they may not want to take a leap into the unknown when embarking on what is a major life- changing decision in the last stage of their lives. Cheap houses in charming towns or villages don't appeal to everyone or even need to. Living somewhere because you can’t afford anywhere else isn’t a good reason for doing so. Choosing when there are other possibilities is quite different.

Anyway, short of a miracle the OP has less chance of moving to Spain than I have of being Miss Estepona 2020.
So don’t let’s raise false hopes.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Yeah, you can find places of 50.000euros in many countries. Take a look in Sweden!! However they are cheap cause no one wants them. They might look nice but either there are logistical problems, or structural, or financial. Either way it takes a fairly resolute go getter to take on these things and the majority of retiring zBrits with zero Spanish probably see it as a bridge too far.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Friends bought a charming looking house in the campo. When they were getting quotes for improvements they were told it would be cheaper to knock it down and start again.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Isobella said:


> Friends bought a charming looking house in the campo. When they were getting quotes for improvements they were told it would be cheaper to knock it down and start again.


I have acquaintances who bought such a house miles from anywhere in beautiful countryside. They spent a lot of money bringing it up to the standards they were accustomed to back in the UK - modern appliances, well-equipped kitchen, fancy bathroom, air con, carefully acquired furnishings and décor...in short a des res with view.

However....they had either ignored or disregarded the geographical surroundings. A river on either approach to the property which for most of the year was a trickle but which after heavy rain became a raging torrent. So they were cut off at one point for over three weeks and without electricity to power their expensive cooking range, internet, tv etc. Couldn't even charge their phones. In god weather I was scared driving along the narrow rough track, no space for two cars to pass, that led to their finca, it was narrow with a sheer deep drop to the river bed below. Not bearable to think about at night.

They're now planning to spend most of the year in the UK and they're not resident anyway. 

Yes, there are very many smaller towns, charming villages with pisos, adosados and houses at low prices. There are also dead and dying towns and fly-blown dusty villages and hamlets where you can buy for less than the price of a top range Mercedes or Saab. I'm sure a good life can be lived there with perseverance and a lot of luck. Not everyone welcomes comparatively affluent newcomers. We experienced slight hostility - I believe the current 'woke' term is 'microaggressions' - when we moved into a quite large house in a dozy hamlet just outside Prague. Water off a duck's back with us. Envy seems endemic amongst Czechs - yes, a stereotype but one accepted by Czechs themselves.

I don't suppose many immigrants to France live in Mauberge or Lens. How many immigrants to the U.K. would choose Doncaster or Ormskirk? I'm sure those natives to those places love living there but I don't see them attracting foreign residents, even though you might be able to buy a two-up two-down for £40999


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

In recent years pre-built houses have seen a boom in Spain. You can buy one for upwards of about 30k, depending on size, etc, and they only take a few weeks to "install" apparently. So all that's left is to buy a plot of land to put it on, and furnish it. They aren't necessarily attractive and "in keeping", but I've heard the build uality is pretty good.


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## paulhe (Jan 2, 2018)

mrypg9 said:


> I have acquaintances who bought such a house miles from anywhere in beautiful countryside. They spent a lot of money bringing it up to the standards they were accustomed to back in the UK - modern appliances, well-equipped kitchen, fancy bathroom, air con, carefully acquired furnishings and décor...in short a des res with view.
> 
> However....they had either ignored or disregarded the geographical surroundings. A river on either approach to the property which for most of the year was a trickle but which after heavy rain became a raging torrent. So they were cut off at one point for over three weeks and without electricity to power their expensive cooking range, internet, tv etc. Couldn't even charge their phones. In god weather I was scared driving along the narrow rough track, no space for two cars to pass, that led to their finca, it was narrow with a sheer deep drop to the river bed below. Not bearable to think about at night.
> 
> ...


Not sure about Doncaster but you won't find anything like it for that price in Ormskirk. Ormskirk is not a bad place to live at all, countryside all around there, not far from lovely places like Formby (lots of football players live there, Royal Birkdale not far away etc etc), and with viking heritage to boot (the kirk in Ormskirk refers) . But back to the issue at hand, one can still purchase reasonable properties in Spain in areas of beauty and with good communications, towns like Martos for example where with reelatively small sum one can purchase and renovate a home to a good standard


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## JuneWhite (May 25, 2020)

I sympathise with your situation, the rising cost of living in Thailand drove me out as well, a few years ago.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

JuneWhite said:


> I sympathise with your situation, the rising cost of living in Thailand drove me out as well, a few years ago.


Where are you now, that might help the OP


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## JuneWhite (May 25, 2020)

Megsmum said:


> Where are you now, that might help the OP


Not really I spend 5 months here and Portugal and then move on. The tax over here is too high for me to stay longer. Post December I will only be able to stay 90/180.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Nothing remains static, including exchange rates and the cost of living. They're dependent on world economic factors, government decisions, election results, many other things.

While we were living in Prague, the Koruna/£ exchange rate dropped almost overnight from 42CKS to £1 to 25CKS to £1. In June 2008 you got around 1.20 euros for your £. When we arrived here the rate was one for one or less in euros if you bought at Heathrow. Some British immigrants who've been here for twenty yeas may remember exchange rates of over 1.50 euros for £!. We've seen rises in IVA, no doubt tax increases on the way to pay for the virus fallout, albeit balanced by extremely low inflation . But if you were one of the 26% unemployed - national average, local rates at 40%+ = that wasn't of much help.

As well as doing what we always advise, i.e. careful financial planning before making the decision to move away from your home country, it might be advisable to study economic history. Fact is, nobody can foresee the future. If your financial cushion isn't soft or deep enough, or your employment precarious, to meet all possible shock scenarios, it may be best to stay put.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

paulhe said:


> Not sure about Doncaster but you won't find anything like it for that price in Ormskirk. Ormskirk is not a bad place to live at all, countryside all around there, not far from lovely places like Formby (lots of football players live there, Royal Birkdale not far away etc etc), and with viking heritage to boot (the kirk in Ormskirk refers) . But back to the issue at hand, one can still purchase reasonable properties in Spain in areas of beauty and with good communications, towns like Martos for example where with reelatively small sum one can purchase and renovate a home to a good standard


I apologise. Confession: I'm from the south-west, so far south my toes were in the English Channel at birth. Once, years ago, I visited Liverpool to stay with an uncle for a weekend but apart from an overnight in Newcastle for a conference and a week in Scarborough also for a conference I've never really explored anywhere north of Watford.

I've never been to Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield or Bradford although I've been to New York Moscow and Saint Petersburg. To be honest, I'd have trouble locating these places accurately on a map of the UK.
But I've seen photos of some stunningly beautiful places in the north especially in Yorkshire and the border regions.
I have often been to Glasgow but only because my late partner was Glaswegian.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

kaipa said:


> Yeah, you can find places of 50.000euros in many countries. Take a look in Sweden!! However they are cheap cause no one wants them. They might look nice but either there are logistical problems, or structural, or financial.


The trick is to pick the compromises you're willing to live with. 

Most of the apartments on my list in Almeria province are in the OP budget. That's within walking distance of the beach. There are nicer and bigger apartments in the towns that are a fair bit cheaper. 

No doubt they're sitting there because most locals don't want them but for a pensioner the lack of work shouldn't be a problem.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

The cost of accomodation is a big factor, but I doubt that this is the factor which is really driving them out of Thailand, you can still live in a regional town in Thailand (excluding Bangkok and Chiang Mai) very cheaply (real estate costs) when compared to Europe.

I think that it is the other costs which are rising. For example, it is virtually obligatory to have private health care in Thailand if you want anything close to a western standard, and these costs have risen a lot (although I don't think that they have reached European levels yet) so if the OP can get free health care, that could be a considerable saving.

Similarly, eating western food in Thailand can be excruciatingly expensive. I remember my wife buying some Atlantic cod in Bangkok at nearly 100€ / Kg once! Eating the extremely cheap and nice local food is OK, but sometimes you do yearn for home comforts. I guess that this is an influence too.

I do feel that the OP is looking for the impossible though, after all inflation in Thailand is not out of control, nor even beyond that of Spain, (around 1% for the last few years) so if the cost of living is beyond their means in Thailand, it doesn't bode well for any other location really.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

NickZ said:


> The trick is to pick the compromises you're willing to live with.
> 
> Most of the apartments on my list in Almeria province are in the OP budget. That's within walking distance of the beach. There are nicer and bigger apartments in the towns that are a fair bit cheaper.
> 
> No doubt they're sitting there because most locals don't want them but for a pensioner the lack of work shouldn't be a problem.


This 'pensioner', as you describe me, wasn't looking for work, that's true. Mind you, I did get offered and accepted the offer of a job whilst in Prague but out of interest not necessity.

I'm not into 'compromise'. I made lots of compromises when I was younger. What interests me and I suppose many other retired and not retired people is quality of life within the limits of what you can afford. Retirement after decades of work should not mean settling for second best.

If your aims match your means fair enough. But the OP cannot possibly meet the time scale required to move to Spain before Brexit strikes so the price and location of accommodation s irrelevant.

Life is tough sometimes. I dare say we've all had setbacks and disappointments. Not everything n life comes down to money, fortunately, but a hell of a lot of things d and moving anywhere even in your home country is one of them.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> This 'pensioner', as you describe me, wasn't looking for work, that's true. Mind you, I did get offered and accepted the offer of a job whilst in Prague but out of interest not necessity.
> 
> I'm not into 'compromise'. I made lots of compromises when I was younger. What interests me and I suppose many other retired and not retired people is quality of life within the limits of what you can afford. Retirement after decades of work should not mean settling for second best.
> .



Actually I meant the OP when I said pensioner.

Compromises aren't bad. Everybody makes choices. We don't all want a 10000 sq metre home with a matching estate. 

The OP I think mentions wanting a small apartment. That's a compromise. They say on the coast but places slightly inland are much cheaper than those right on the beach. That's a compromise that somebody not wanting to deal with all the summer tourists might find appealing.

The thing is to figure out what makes the OP happy and to look for it.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Oddly enough. Several ages of posts OP not responding


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Megsmum said:


> Oddly enough. Several ages of posts OP not responding


True but there are plenty of others in a similar situation, and they do read these threads even if they don't post on them. 1436 views so far!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

NickZ said:


> Actually I meant the OP when I said pensioner.
> 
> Compromises aren't bad. Everybody makes choices. We don't all want a 10000 sq metre home with a matching estate.
> 
> ...


The term pensioner always makes me think of old dears in slippers ,baggy cardies and hairnets and we're not like that nowadays - well, I can't speak for Baldy and Alca

I wouldn't like to have seen anywhere I lived as a compromise. I knew what I wanted and most importantly my price range. Sadly, the OP is unlikely to meet the deadlines required to make his move to Spain affordable and the rest of the EU member states presumably operate on the same lines. I can't think of any liveable country that would suit. 
Brexit is going to leave a lot of people disappointed.


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