# introduction



## chalky (Jun 24, 2013)

Hi Guys.

Just joined and thought I'd say hi.

Hi 

I am 44 years old, an auto locksmith with a shop in the North West of England, which is a shoe repair / key cutting business. I obviously do car keys from there too as this was my main trade before the shop. 

I have also been a dj for 25 years (only play 80s now, none of that bang bang stuff lol). I am a really good karaoke host and singer too, having all my own gear obviously. I have worked in Tenerife (6 months in 92) and New Zealand (6 months in 93) as a dj, young and carefree at the time.

Me and my girlfriend (37) are considering a move to the coast. We both love Majorca, but feel the mainland may be easier and more 'all year' ish than the Balearics. The thing is, what business to look for or go into. I've ran a pub in the UK before (albeit some years ago), spent most of my life in entertainment, or go into something else. We really like the idea of a little cafe/bar or even something that can put a karaoke on at night.

We are learning Spanish at the moment, I already know quite a bit. 

Gonna spend a nit of time reading threads and learning what I can. Gonna spend a few days over in Spain now and then, see a few places. Anyone wanna shout us a beer, we'll come say Hola  lol

Cheers for reading, just thought I'd say hi before steaming in with the questions


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Hi and welcome to the forum. First a word of warning!! You might not receive the positive responses to your plan that you might want. Many of the folk on here who have lived here for many years will tell you how it is and it might not be the answer you want to hear. Having said that, and many people on here know I am a very positive thrax, if it is something you have set your heart on then you must give it a try or you will spend the rest of your life wondering, 'what if...' However, I do know there are many bars where we live that have karaoke and few of them do well at the moment apart from the height of tourist season. Many people will tell you that to live here you need to prove to the Spanish authorities that you already have an income and have healthcare for you and your partner. There are no benefits here at all. Running a bar in Spain is very very hard work with, at the moment, very little prospect of success or profit so tread carefully in that regard. My advice would be to come over for several holidays and see what it is like for yourself. Go to some bars run by English folk (and not those that are for sale) and ask them what it is really like.

You say you want to try mainland Spain rather than the islands which is probably a better idea. But if you don't know the mainland you really need to visit several times to make sure you really like it. Most of us who have made the move will tell you that living in Spain is totally different from holidaying here. But I'm guessing you already know that 

Come over for some wonderful holidays and find an area you like then ask more questions. We don't have the answers for any individual only our views. I love it here and have no plans to return to the UK. But then I don't need to work (I do work just don't need to). I would suggest you would need around 2 years of cash to survive whilst you decide if Spain is for you. If it is you will know soon enough and if you work hard, have a bit of luck, it may well work out and I certainly hope it does. But do your research and visit a few times first. Best of luck!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## chalky (Jun 24, 2013)

*thanks*

Thanks for the reply. I know it wont be easy. We are definitely gonna come over for a few holidays and a spot of research


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Lots of research required. Spain is no longer an easy country to move to - you need an income and healthcare provision in place before you can become a resident and work isnt easy to find. But as Thrax says do some fact finding missions - and dont just come when its the summer, maybe venture over during the winter months, when things are closed, cold and miserable so that you get a feel for the place, rather than the "holiday". Bars/cafes are all struggling at the moment - karaoke is everywhere - lots of mobile chaps going in and doing it, but have a look, you may have a talent that rides above the others??????????????

Check you're learning the right Spanish for Mallorca, if thats where you're heading - they have a different version of Spanish lol!!!

Jo xxx


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## chalky (Jun 24, 2013)

yeah, I believe there is different versions, just to make things easier lol. Been learning mainland spanish, and got by in Mallorca. Was put right a couple of times. Must be doing ok, as one morning we were due to go on a boat trip. My girlfriend wanted some sea sickness tablets, so i asked a guy where the farmacia was. He fired back the directions in double speed as they do sometimes. He must of thought i was more versed than i am.... I just thanked him, wandered off and asked someone else lol. Gave us a giggle.

I know there is a lot of competition bar and cafe wise, on the islands too. We are due to go to the canaries in Oct, but as I say, we are gonna squeeze the odd mainland trip in too


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chalky said:


> yeah, I believe there is different versions, just to make things easier lol. Been learning mainland spanish, and got by in Mallorca. Was put right a couple of times. Must be doing ok, as one morning we were due to go on a boat trip. My girlfriend wanted some sea sickness tablets, so i asked a guy where the farmacia was. He fired back the directions in double speed as they do sometimes. He must of thought i was more versed than i am.... I just thanked him, wandered off and asked someone else lol. Gave us a giggle.
> 
> I know there is a lot of competition bar and cafe wise, on the islands too. We are due to go to the canaries in Oct, but as I say, we are gonna squeeze the odd mainland trip in too


Research and knowledge are the key. If you go to Nerja, I know a chap there who is "in" with the music bars and may be able to offer you advice (he's a promoter/singer/guitarist) "Jonny Unplugged" is his name, he's on facebook if you wanna have a look!!! Also, if possible, do not burn your UK bridges - just in case!!

Jo xxx


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## David1979 (Feb 15, 2013)

I'm in the same boat as you mate, heading to Spain to set up business.

As others have said, don't take any warnings and notifications of pitfalls as people being negative, just use the information given to make sure you're as prepared as you can be.

As has also been said, business is tough in Spain at present, but it's also tough in the UK, so if you're currently operating there with a decent level of success then you should be okay if you continue the same level of commitment and hard work.

My plan is to head over for six months initially. I've got my lease sorted, a few leads for a decent gestor, and my paperwork in order as much as possible. I'm sure things will go wrong and roadblocks will appear, but I'll deal with them as I go.

In short, if you have the finances, have done the research and know it's not going to be a case of setting up shop and simply living the life of luxury on the beach then there's no reason why you can't do it.

Best of luck! :fingerscrossed:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

David1979 said:


> As has also been said, business is tough in Spain at present, but it's also tough in the UK, so if you're currently operating there with a decent level of success then you should be okay if you continue the same level of commitment and hard work.
> .
> 
> Best of luck! :fingerscrossed:


Agree with most of your post, David, but not the bit I've left!
Unemployment in the U.K. is currently under 10% , round here it's at 34% plus. More unemployed people equals less money to spend on on-essentials. Plus there's the welfare safety net in the U.K. and tax credits for those on low wages. Commitment and hard work are essential, yes, but not sufficient in themselves. You need openings,available jobs plus commitment etc....that and sheer luck, being in the right place at the right time, having a face that fits, knowing someone..

I'd say there's not much of an opening west of Malaga for DJs etc. A glance through the pages of the British/German immigrant press and you'll see loads of ads for entertainers of all kinds.
It may be different elsewhere, Benidorm, Alicante and similar tourist resorts, I don't know...


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## chalky (Jun 24, 2013)

Although i do the entertainment thing, and has a seriously good set up, it's not what we want to rely on. It will be there as kind of an add on. Predominantly we want a business. A cafe bar is what i would prefer, but anything is possible. I know they are not the best thing to go into at the moment, so finding a good location is probably key.

Like I say, plenty of research missions is in order. be rude not to sample the odd drink along the way too


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## David1979 (Feb 15, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Agree with most of your post, David, but not the bit I've left!
> Unemployment in the U.K. is currently under 10% , round here it's at 34% plus. More unemployed people equals less money to spend on on-essentials. Plus there's the welfare safety net in the U.K. and tax credits for those on low wages. Commitment and hard work are essential, yes, but not sufficient in themselves. You need openings,available jobs plus commitment etc....that and sheer luck, being in the right place at the right time, having a face that fits, knowing someone..


Speaking as someone who runs a business, and who's family have run businesses most of my life, you tend to find that those with the drive and business sense usually make things work. Unemployment is high, which means that if you're coming to Spain looking for employment you'll likely not get it.

Coming to Spain to run a business is different though, as you're in control of pretty much every aspect of what you do. You can change location, alter your marketing, adjust prices & opening hours etc. Those who run businesses rather than seek employment tend to be wired a little differently (in my experience anyway).

I get what you're saying, but if the guy has the drive and the business sense he'll make a success of his move to Spain. He may not end up doing what he thought he would, but there's always something there if you look hard enough.



mrypg9 said:


> I'd say there's not much of an opening west of Malaga for DJs etc. A glance through the pages of the British/German immigrant press and you'll see loads of ads for entertainers of all kinds.


You could look at that as meaning that there are companies and individuals making enough of a living to place those ads though, couldn't you?

I mean, even if that industry was booming I'd like to think there would still be plenty of ads looking for business.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

David1979 said:


> Speaking as someone who runs a business, and who's family have run businesses most of my life, you tend to find that those with the drive and business sense usually make things work. Unemployment is high, which means that if you're coming to Spain looking for employment you'll likely not get it.
> 
> 
> *That depends entirely on the kind of business you run, though. We too had businesses in the UK,. what I suppose you could describe as smaller medium sized enterprises, with a payroll of around twenty-five people, so not exactly ICI but with a substantial turnover.
> ...


*Yes..but looking isn't finding. Looking doesn't put food on the table.
The bottom line is that in Spain as a whole times are very bad. Seven million looking for work is very serious indeed. Andalucia is one of the worst-hit areas.
There's absolutely no harm in anyone looking for work or trying to set up a business but I don't think it's helpful to say that all you need is drive, ambition, hard work etc. 
Many who have failed in business or lost their jobs had all those qualities. They were swept away by events beyond their control.
That's all I'm trying to say, really.*


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## David1979 (Feb 15, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> That depends entirely on the kind of business you run, though. We too had businesses in the UK,. what I suppose you could describe as smaller medium sized enterprises, with a payroll of around twenty-five people, so not exactly ICI but with a substantial turnover.
> 
> More is needed than 'drive' and 'enterprise', I'm afraid. Chance and contingency play a major role in a truly successful business too, whether in Spain or the U.K. It is a dangerous myth to think otherwise.


At no point did I say that drive & enterprise is _all_ that's required. I'm simply saying that if someone has the drive and enterprise to get a business of the ground and profitable in the UK usually they have what it takes to make a go of it wherever they go.

Of course there are going to be sad tales of people who lose it all, but there are also sad tales of people who got knocked down by a bus whilst crossing the road. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't cross the road, it means that you should do your due diligence before taking your chance.

Moving to another country is always going to come with an element of risk, that is unavoidable unless you're financially set for life. 

Those risks shouldn't put people off from doing it though. If you do your homework and plan as much as you can then you should always give it a shot if it's something you really want to do.



mrypg9 said:


> Not everyone who fails in business is idle or lacks the ability to work hard. I'm sure that many of the millions of unemployed here have or had those qualities too but factors beyond their control have dealt them a bad hand.


As I said, sometimes in life **** happens. It's what you do in response that matters though.

We still have plenty of unemployed people in the UK who complain endlessly about there being no jobs and no opportunities, yet I know two families who have come here from the EU over the past year that have pushed forward and are making a real go of things. They have set up businesses that are progressing nicely, and one has branched out into another area of the country as well.

None of the two who have set up business really have a great grasp of English, nor did they come here with thousands of Euros in the bank. If they had thought too much on the pitfalls and the bad hands they may be dealt they possibly wouldn't have come here at all, and as such would have missed out on the life they have now, and the life they may have in the future.



mrypg9 said:


> You are no more in control of your business in Spain than anywhere, for the reasons I've mentioned above which are just as valid for Spain.


I never said that I, or anyone else, would be more in control of their business in Spain than anywhere else. I said that if the person in question has the qualities to build and run a business in the UK then there's a very good chance they'll be able to do so in Spain as well.

Will there be a chance of failure? Of course, but that comes with the territory regardless of where you are.



mrypg9 said:


> Neither are business people that more 'wired' than anyone else. Many businesspeople lack elementary skills and don't learn from experience. I was professionally employed as well as being a Director of my partner's companies and I didn't swap from being 'wired' to 'non-wired'.
> 
> I would think too that a highly-trained, experienced and qualified employed professional - lawyer, surgeon, teacher, surveyor etc. is a lot more 'wired' than a one-man sweetshop owner, though. Life is very tough these days in some professions.


I'm not sure that you've understood what I meant. I never said that business people were "wired" whilst those who work in jobs were "non-wired", I said that I tend to find that those who have the qualities to set up their own business are wired differently from those who spend their lives in employment. They tend to look at problems from a different angle, and are more prone to take a calculated (in most cases, I hope!) risk in order to progress. 

For example, I told my family & friends that I was moving to Spain to live and try my hand at running my business over there. Their first comments were usually based on success not being guaranteed, the economy not being great, there being no safety net and so on.

My friends & family who run their own businesses in the UK had different views. They looked at it as a challenge that should be relished and tackled with enthusiasm. A new and exciting chapter where the challenges will undoubtedly be tougher than in the UK, but where the rewards of success will be greater.

In fact, one of those friends is looking into coming into business with me!

I hope you understand what I meant now?



mrypg9 said:


> Not so, I'm afraid, as you'll discover when you get here and have a chance to see for yourself. The 'something there' is increasingly hard to find and often depends on who you know, not what qualities you may possess.


I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this then. I've seen many immigrants come to the UK with virtually nothing and manage to pull themselves up the ladder when all the odds were stacked against them. It can be done, and those who have the determination, the work ethic and the enterprise can make it happen.

I'm not sure if it's a British thing, but when you look at other nationalities from around the world who leave their home country for a better quality of life in many cases they don't do so with a cushy pension, thousands of Euros in the bank and the intention to buy a house the day they arrive. Why should we be any different?

If you want to leave the UK for a better life in a nicer climate then go for it is what I say. It's not going to be easy, and there's always the chance that it won't work out but you won't know unless you try.

In fact, I'd even go as far as saying that those who are looking for guarantees and sure things are better off staying where they are. It's probably safer! 



mrypg9 said:


> Yes. But whereas a town can support say, ten hairdressers, computer businesses, etc. another two or three and prices drop to the level where you become a 'busy fool', barely scratching a living or you close as there's only so much money in circulation. Those individuals are already in work ...or may be in competition with each other for what work is going.


That's the risk you run, my friend! You know as well as I do that such is the world of running your own business!

If there is already competition in the area you need to be prepared to offer a better service, work harder, and be more resourceful than your competition.

If you went into that situation with a shred of doubt that your product isn't going to blow the rest of them away then you probably shouldn't bother.



mrypg9 said:


> Yes..but looking isn't finding. Looking doesn't put food on the table.


Again, if someone is going into a situation such as this with any doubt over their ability to set up and make a success of their business then they should stay at home and go to Spain on holiday!



mrypg9 said:


> The bottom line is that in Spain as a whole times are very bad. Seven million looking for work is very serious indeed. Andalucia is one of the worst-hit areas.


Yes, times in Spain are bad. Times here in Glasgow are very bad as well. You think the poverty in places like Andalucia is something to worry about, try visiting the Easterhouse housing estate in Glasgow. It's one of the worst places in Europe, and that's with the "safety net" of unemployment benefit, free prescriptions and suchlike.

I've run interviews in the local jobcentres, and if anyone who was thinking of moving into this area saw what goes on in there they would most likely think twice.

Glasgow also has some of the most vibrant and successful businesses in the UK though, with plenty of money being spent by tourists and by those who live and work there. Many immigrants have come here and made good. The same can happen in Spain and anywhere else.



mrypg9 said:


> Many who have failed in business or lost their jobs had all those qualities. They were swept away by events beyond their control.


I'd wager that just as many have succeeded as well.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Mary, I am going to have to agree with David. Money is still out there. You just have to be very creative, hard-working, open and smart about what you are doing. I am turning down substantial amounts of work, despite the situation.


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## chalky (Jun 24, 2013)

I might be wrong, but is the situation in Spain mainly to do with businesses that are targeted at the people who live there? i mean, your average bar on the beach is all about holiday makers isn't it? As long as people are going on holiday with cash, then they are gonna spend it? 

I aint there yet, so its maybe a just a pre conceived notion?


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

chalky said:


> I might be wrong, but is the situation in Spain mainly to do with businesses that are targeted at the people who live there? i mean, your average bar on the beach is all about holiday makers isn't it? As long as people are going on holiday with cash, then they are gonna spend it?
> 
> I aint there yet, so its maybe a just a pre conceived notion?


You can only live off of people on vacation for six months a year, tops.


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## David1979 (Feb 15, 2013)

chalky said:


> I might be wrong, but is the situation in Spain mainly to do with businesses that are targeted at the people who live there? i mean, your average bar on the beach is all about holiday makers isn't it? As long as people are going on holiday with cash, then they are gonna spend it?
> 
> I aint there yet, so its maybe a just a pre conceived notion?


It's different for everyone, based on personal circumstances, cash to play with, skills and business experience I believe.

Location will no doubt be key as well.

The best way to go about it is to go there, check it out, give it a bash and be prepared to work as hard and as smart as you can in my opinion. It certainly won't be easy, but if you really want it then you have to make it happen. The EU rules and regulations have given EU citizens the opportunity. It's up to you to take it.



elenetxu said:


> You can only live off of people on vacation for six months a year, tops.


If you're making some decent coin during the tourist period you should be smart and put something away for leaner months, as you would with any seasonal business though.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

elenetxu said:


> Mary, I am going to have to agree with David. Money is still out there. You just have to be very creative, hard-working, open and smart about what you are doing. I am turning down substantial amounts of work, despite the situation.


But you aren't in Andalucia, though.

I've heard a lot of people talk like David and yes, some succeed. But for every one person/business that does, there are very many more than don't. I wish it were otherwise.
We did well in the UK but no way would I put it down to our special qualities. I think perseverance counts more than any other quality.

Talking the talk: easy. Walking it...not so.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

David1979 said:


> At no point did I say that drive & enterprise is _all_ that's required. I'm simply saying that if someone has the drive and enterprise to get a business of the ground and profitable in the UK usually they have what it takes to make a go of it wherever they go.
> 
> Of course there are going to be sad tales of people who lose it all, but there are also sad tales of people who got knocked down by a bus whilst crossing the road. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't cross the road, it means that you should do your due diligence before taking your chance.
> 
> ...


Yes, we'll agree to disagree. Can I ask what business you are in? How many employees you'll need? If you are talking one or two-man band, then the risk will be spread around less. You have only yourself to rely on.

Interesting you mention Glasgow. I know it well. My partner is Glaswegian. And yes, there are successful businesses in Glasgow but they are outnumbered a thousand to one by those struggling to survive day by day. The big difference between Glasgow and Spain can be summed up in two words: Welfare State.

I wonder how you'll feel after a year in Spain. Hopefully you'll still be confident and full of beans. Time and experience will tell. Just don't be too hard on those who had all the qualities you mention, who got knocked down, picked themselves up...and got knocked back again. Sadly there are very many like that.


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## David1979 (Feb 15, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Can I ask what business you are in?


I'm an alternative photographer and also own tattoo shops with a business partner. I'll be opening at least one shop in Spain, and also continuing my business interests back in the UK.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

David1979 said:


> I'm an alternative photographer and also own tattoo shops with a business partner. I'll be opening at least one shop in Spain, and also continuing my business interests back in the UK.


So...fewer overheads, few if any staff to worry about, rented premises....Somewhat different from a business employing people or with extensive premises, expensive machinery, highly-paid, highly qualified and scarce staff. More chance of picking up, moving on and starting over than with a larger concern, you are right.
Yes, it's a lot easier if you are a one or two-man band. I wouldn't disagree with that.
I'm wondering what the market for tattoo shops would be in Spain. I can't say I've seen a lot of tattooed persons around here, apart from a few shaven-headed types with the usual skulls etc. when I've ventured further up the coast.Mind you I've not inspected many people here that closely and neither partner nor I sport tattoos, although I would be tempted were I younger.
I'm also intrigued by 'alternative' photography. I think photography is one of my favourite art forms, not that I'm a good photographer myself. I'm assuming it's not what first springs to mind.


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## David1979 (Feb 15, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> So...fewer overheads, few if any staff to worry about, rented premises....Somewhat different from a business employing people or with extensive premises, expensive machinery, highly-paid, highly qualified and scarce staff. More chance of picking up, moving on and starting over than with a larger concern, you are right.


Yes, all of my staff will be self-employed except one who will basically be the shop receptionist/translator. Rented premises, and rented equipment in many cases as well, which is also a bonus.

The staff _will_ be highly qualified however, and at least one of them will be coming from the UK to work for six months with me on the back of their reputation at home. 



mrypg9 said:


> I'm wondering what the market for tattoo shops would be in Spain. I can't say I've seen a lot of tattooed persons around here, apart from a few shaven-headed types with the usual skulls etc. when I've ventured further up the coast.Mind you I've not inspected many people here that closely


To be honest, from the not inconsiderable research I've done on my visits the tattoo scene does seem to be where it was in the UK maybe 20 years ago, but it _is_ growing.

It's pretty vibrant in the major cities, such as Barcelona and Madrid (which is where I hope to end up eventually), but when you have as many tattooed celebrities and sportsmen you're always going to have young people looking to emulate them and also to "rebel".

Although this may sound strange to those who don't know the industry, my aim is to bring an establishment for the more discerning customer. The days of going into a small, dingy looking tattoo parlour that's full of the types you describe there are slowly dying out. It's becoming more mainstream, and as such the business owners need to keep up with that.

Open, airy shops that are immaculate with friendly staff, free coffee and mineral water, a comfortable waiting area and quality after-care is the way forward. It's already the case in the UK, and the rest of Europe isn't too far behind I don't think.



mrypg9 said:


> neither partner nor I sport tattoos, although I would be tempted were I younger.


You're never too old! We've had couples who have celebrated their 30th & 40th wedding anniversary by getting wedding bands tattooed onto their fingers!



mrypg9 said:


> I'm also intrigued by 'alternative' photography. I think photography is one of my favourite art forms, not that I'm a good photographer myself. I'm assuming it's not what first springs to mind.


No, it's nothing sleazy. It's basically anything that doesn't fall within the norm. Alternative wedding ceremonies, tattoo conventions and suchlike.


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## ScottJaniceKyleErinFreya (Jan 11, 2013)

David1979 said:


> I'm an alternative photographer and also own tattoo shops with a business partner. I'll be opening at least one shop in Spain, and also continuing my business interests back in the UK.


What tattoo parlour did/do you have in Glasgow? i had four done @ southside ink, thinking about another, and TBH would probs wait until i go back to Glasgow for it, as i think hes spot on, and he does a good job.
Getting a tatoo done is not something you want to go wrong lol
I see alot of people here in Spain with tatoos, and im surprised at the amount of "proffesionals" here who have them compared to back home.
Good luck with your venture


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Well I'd be up for a good tattoo artist if you opened up shop around Alicante, I was thinking that because it's a bit more touristy in that area the quality may suffer in certain shops who are just wanting to cash in on the tourists.
But quite often you will get returning customers, I know I'd use the same guy again in Brussels without hesitation.

It's like anything really, you need to research the artist and styles before hand.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pazcat said:


> Well I'd be up for a good tattoo artist if you opened up shop around Alicante, I was thinking that because it's a bit more touristy in that area the quality may suffer in certain shops who are just wanting to cash in on the tourists.
> But quite often you will get returning customers, I know I'd use the same guy again in Brussels without hesitation.
> 
> It's like anything really, you need to research the artist and styles before hand.


there's a brilliant one in Calpe - people go there from all over Europe


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

ScottJaniceKyleErinFreya said:


> i had four done @ southside ink, thinking about another, and TBH would probs wait until i go back to Glasgow for it, as i think hes spot on, and he does a good job.


Are they where they can be seen?


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## ScottJaniceKyleErinFreya (Jan 11, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Are they where they can be seen?


Only when im parading around the nudist colonies

Go on Mary, your never too old


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

David1979 said:


> Speaking as someone who runs a business, and who's family have run businesses most of my life, you tend to find that those with the drive and business sense usually make things work. Unemployment is high, which means that if you're coming to Spain looking for employment you'll likely not get it.
> 
> Coming to Spain to run a business is different though, as you're in control of pretty much every aspect of what you do. You can change location, alter your marketing, adjust prices & opening hours etc. Those who run businesses rather than seek employment tend to be wired a little differently (in my experience anyway).


Maybe our timing was out cos we moved to Spain just as the recession started, but my husband is a good businessman, he had/has a successful business in the UK and a friend who ran a similar business in Marbella and they were going to join forces and "rule the world" lol! But the recession hit hard - my husband had to spend more time with the UK business cos altho he had great staff - he needed to be there to ride the storm. The Spanish business wouldnt have worked after this recession - not without a huge investment and risk, he and his potential partner, as business men realised that. Altho the potential partner is still running it, its only just surviving.

Its not just about having different wiring that makes business/self employed people successful, its having the knowledge and wisdom to choose things that they can make work and knowing the things they cant. Also, running a business in Spain isnt easy, the language, the rules, regulations, permits, the habits of the locals are a mystery to even the Spanish alot of the time - so you really need someone who understands all of that to work with you

We're back in the UK now and husbands business here is doing great, he knows what he's doing and he understands his market. The plan is to get it to its peak, sell it and retire to Spain, maybe buying a holiday home along the way :fingerscrossed:

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

ScottJaniceKyleErinFreya said:


> Only when im parading around the nudist colonies
> 
> Go on Mary, your never too old


I'm guessing....it's crossed claymores rampant

There just cannot be many nudist colonies in Scotland....there just cannot be.....

Away wi' ye...ye're havering...


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## ScottJaniceKyleErinFreya (Jan 11, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> I'm guessing....it's crossed claymores rampant
> 
> There just cannot be many nudist colonies in Scotland....there just cannot be.....
> 
> Away wi' ye...ye're havering...


Theres a great one on an island on Loch Lomond, and its not the one with the wallabies

Have to say the nudist beaches here are far nicer

P.S Not too far of on the tattoos


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## David1979 (Feb 15, 2013)

Give it a month or two and I'll sort you all out with tattoos. expatforum.com discount, of course!


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## GUAPACHICA (Jun 30, 2012)

chalky said:


> I might be wrong, but is the situation in Spain mainly to do with businesses that are targeted at the people who live there? i mean, your average bar on the beach is all about holiday makers isn't it? As long as people are going on holiday with cash, then they are gonna spend it?
> 
> I aint there yet, so its maybe a just a pre conceived notion?


Hi - I'm not familiar with your prospective location in Spain, which will probably be in a slightly better situation, economically speaking, than where I am - in Cadiz. Here, the local and provincial press is stating that tourist bookings for hotels and apartments are down by some 12%, so far, compared with last year - and the picture's expected to get worse…! A large number of Summer visitors to this part of Spain are actually Spaniards, mostly from Madrid and Sevilla - seeking to escape the furnace -heat of their own cities during July and August. Apparently, those who are booking are reducing the length of their stays to a week or so, rather than having the extended holidays which were the norm prior to the Crisis! They are, of course, predicted to be spending much less, besides.

The conclusion drawn, by the relevant Tourism departments, is that they'll need to focus much more on the foreign market - promoting even more strenuously to the UK, German and USA populations, but, as was noted, Greece is going to be a favoured option for such customers, with cheap offers and prices which it will be difficult for Cadiz and, indeed, the whole of Andalucia, to match.

Obviously, you'll be researching your target customers, in readiness for your move, but all I can say is that here, at least, there are now several empty shops and other business premises even on this city's main pedestrianised shopping street - previously described as 'Cadiz's very own Oxford Street'…! It is proving incredibly hard for Spanish business owners to survive here - i imagine that Majorca would be better off, however.
Good luck with your new venture - wherever you decide to relocate!

Saludos,
G.C.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chalky said:


> I might be wrong, but is the situation in Spain mainly to do with businesses that are targeted at the people who live there? i mean, your average bar on the beach is all about holiday makers isn't it? As long as people are going on holiday with cash, then they are gonna spend it?
> 
> I aint there yet, so its maybe a just a pre conceived notion?


The trouble is that many hotels and tour operators are offering "all inclusive" holidays for not very much money at the moment - much to the horror of the locals. So people dont venture out anywhere near as much as they have in the past!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

GUAPACHICA said:


> Hi - I'm not familiar with your prospective location in Spain, which will probably be in a slightly better situation, economically speaking, than where I am - in Cadiz. Here, the local and provincial press is stating that tourist bookings for hotels and apartments are down by some 12%, so far, compared with last year - and the picture's expected to get worse…! A large number of Summer visitors to this part of Spain are actually Spaniards, mostly from Madrid and Sevilla - seeking to escape the furnace -heat of their own cities during July and August. Apparently, those who are booking are reducing the length of their stays to a week or so, rather than having the extended holidays which were the norm prior to the Crisis! They are, of course, predicted to be spending much less, besides.
> 
> The conclusion drawn, by the relevant Tourism departments, is that they'll need to focus much more on the foreign market - promoting even more strenuously to the UK, German and USA populations, but, as was noted, Greece is going to be a favoured option for such customers, with cheap offers and prices which it will be difficult for Cadiz and, indeed, the whole of Andalucia, to match.
> 
> ...


It must depend on where you are 'cos I heard on the radio that May was the best month ever for tourism in Spain. I found this article which is also an exercise for people learning Spanish, so if anyone wants to practice their Spanish, here it is (in English too)
*Spain closes May the best month in the history of tourism with 5.8 million visitors and a total of 19.8 million so far this year*

Practice Spanish with: Spain closes May the best month in the history of tourism with 5.8 million visitors and a total of 19.8 million so far this year - Business - News - Practice spanish - EFE, Fundación de la Lengua Española e Instituto Cervantes


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> But you aren't in Andalucia, though.
> 
> I've heard a lot of people talk like David and yes, some succeed. But for every one person/business that does, there are very many more than don't. I wish it were otherwise.
> We did well in the UK but no way would I put it down to our special qualities. I think perseverance counts more than any other quality.
> ...


No, I'm not. However, I am in Spain and dealing with the Spanish market from both the provider and consumer side daily. 

One of the things we need right now is innovation.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> No, I'm not. However, I am in Spain and dealing with the Spanish market from both the provider and consumer side daily.
> 
> One of the things we need right now is innovation.


Not wishing to put a downer on anybody, but elenetxu, you are a highly *qualified* professional, with *experience*, in a *growing market *(you do specialise in children's classes, don't you?), in an area with one of the *lowest unemployment levels in the whole of Spain*, AND you speak the *language fluently.*
Las cosas como son.../ you have to tell it like it is
I think there may be better places, places that would have more of a hole in the market for a DJ or some one who can run a bar. Both of these activities have fierce competition in Spain even when there isn't a crisis.
However, if the OP doesn't have dependants and can afford to finance himself for a year or so then maybe he should try it - maybe next year given that we are now in June. Or maybe he should try another country if looking for steady work is a priority.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Not wishing to put a downer on anybody, but elenetxu, you are a highly *qualified* professional, with *experience*, in a *growing market *(you do specialise in children's classes, don't you?), in an area with one of the *lowest unemployment levels in the whole of Spain*, AND you speak the *language fluently.*
> Las cosas como son.../ you have to tell it like it is
> I think there may be better places, places that would have more of a hole in the market for a DJ or some one who can run a bar. Both of these activities have fierce competition in Spain even when there isn't a crisis.
> However, if the OP doesn't have dependants and can afford to finance himself for a year or so then maybe he should try it - maybe next year given that we are now in June. Or maybe he should try another country if looking for steady work is a priority.


The other side of the coin is that I came here without any qualifications and spoke the language at an operational level. I do not specialize in any specific age, nor do I limit myself to teaching. In the last year, I have had to look for alternative ways of making sure all the bills get paid. 

The poster in question is talking about starting a tattoo parlor and an alt-photo business. If he was talking about opening a bar, ice cream truck, or another very common business I probably wouldn't be replying. Wedding photography seems to be heading more of an alt-way here recently. When SIL got married, it was still that cheesy photo-shopped "bride on a flower" type thing. Now, it seems like the trend is towards something more "real."


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> The other side of the coin is that I came here without any qualifications and spoke the language at an operational level. I do not specialize in any specific age, nor do I limit myself to teaching. In the last year, I have had to look for alternative ways of making sure all the bills get paid.
> 
> The poster in question is talking about starting a tattoo parlor and an alt-photo business. If he was talking about opening a bar, ice cream truck, or another very common business I probably wouldn't be replying. Wedding photography seems to be heading more of an alt-way here recently. When SIL got married, it was still that cheesy photo-shopped "bride on a flower" type thing. Now, it seems like the trend is towards something more "real."


Uhhmm, The OP was chalky who said something about making keys, being a DJ and having a bar and I was thinking about him when I wrote my post. Here's some info about opening a bar for him
Who thinks selling up and moving to Spain to run a bar is a good idea? - Yahoo! Respuestas
And this is a fun way to look at it!
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/

Then someone else came on with a Jack Nicholson avatar talking about a tattoo place, which maybe is a little different. For that I'd recommend speaking Spanish, getting in contact with Spanish tattooers on the net and finding out exactly what licences you need 'cos I imagine it isn't easy. And photography again, if you want to have a network that's going to keep you afloat I think you'll need Spanish. 
Would love to hear about his progress as time goes by


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> The other side of the coin is that I came here without any qualifications and spoke the language at an operational level. I do not specialize in any specific age, nor do I limit myself to teaching._ In the last year, I have had to look for alternative ways of making sure all the bills get paid. _


Ahh!
Are you going to spill the beans?


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Uhhmm, The OP was chalky who said something about making keys, being a DJ and having a bar and I was thinking about him when I wrote my post. Here's some info about opening a bar for him
> Who thinks selling up and moving to Spain to run a bar is a good idea? - Yahoo! Respuestas
> And this is a fun way to look at it!
> Spain Expat Forum for Expats Living in Spain - Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad
> ...


Sorry PW, guess I shouldn't read and reply on my cell phone... 
Yeah, a bar isn't going to be the best of ideas right now. Even my Spanish buddy who is a great and highly trained cook is saying that bars just aren't what they used to be. 

I am really interested in the tattoo/photo business.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Ahh!
> Are you going to spill the beans?


Get creative, don't limit yourself to looking in one place, and don't think you're going to sleep much :ranger:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

elenetxu said:


> Get creative, don't limit yourself to looking in one place, and don't think you're going to sleep much :ranger:


It all depends on location. Things are bad here. Whatever the media might say, it's noticeable that tourism is down on previous years.
Hotels, bars, shops and restaurants are closing even in Marbella...
So in this particular area, west of Malaga, apart from a few tourist hotspots further up the coast, prospects for DJs aren't good.

A high-class tattoo business might be in with a chance, though.


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## David1979 (Feb 15, 2013)

elenetxu said:


> The poster in question is talking about starting a tattoo parlor and an alt-photo business. If he was talking about opening a bar, ice cream truck, or another very common business I probably wouldn't be replying. Wedding photography seems to be heading more of an alt-way here recently. When SIL got married, it was still that cheesy photo-shopped "bride on a flower" type thing. Now, it seems like the trend is towards something more "real."


Yeah, if I was talking about opening a bar I probably wouldn't have replied to me either! 

Funny you should mention weddings, as the style even in the UK is changing a lot just now. More & more people are looking for a more documentary-style approach, with many of them looking for black & white photography as well.

I have a number of weddings already booked for the UK early next year (let's hope the cold doesn't shock me too much. Camera shake isn't ideal!).



elenetxu said:


> I am really interested in the tattoo/photo business.





mrypg9 said:


> A high-class tattoo business might be in with a chance, though.


Thanks for the interest and the input folks, I certainly do appreciate it.

I'll keep everyone up to speed on how I'm doing on here, so any advice/constructive criticism you can offer along the way will be greatly appreciated.

The one thing I am looking for if anyone can assist is a Malaga-based Gestor who also operates as an abogado.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> Sorry PW, guess I shouldn't read and reply on my cell phone...


Nooo problem elenetxu!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> It all depends on location. Things are bad here. Whatever the media might say, it's noticeable that tourism is down on previous years.
> Hotels, bars, shops and restaurants are closing even in Marbella...
> So in this particular area, west of Malaga, apart from a few tourist hotspots further up the coast, prospects for DJs aren't good.
> 
> A high-class tattoo business might be in with a chance, though.


I agree. The info I've seen about the good tourism numbers are quoting number of visitors - not euros made. However, I do have a Ukranian friend who is working with Russian tourists here in Madrid, and they seem to have plenty of money to splash around!!


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> It all depends on location. Things are bad here. Whatever the media might say, it's noticeable that tourism is down on previous years.
> Hotels, bars, shops and restaurants are closing even in Marbella...
> So in this particular area, west of Malaga, apart from a few tourist hotspots further up the coast, prospects for DJs aren't good.
> 
> A high-class tattoo business might be in with a chance, though.


I dont limit my work to Spanish clients. The internet is an amazing tool.


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## David1979 (Feb 15, 2013)

elenetxu said:


> I dont limit my work to Spanish clients. The internet is an amazing tool.


Indeed. I'm still amazed at the amount of businesses out there that still don't use a well put together website.

Many still operate without one at all.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

elenetxu said:


> I dont limit my work to Spanish clients. The internet is an amazing tool.


Yes...but I'm thinking of bricks and mortar businesses. Not everyone can work on the internet or by using it to advertise.
Whichever way you look at it, times are hard. Much of Europe in economic crisis and almost seven million unemployed in Spain can't be brushed aside.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes...but I'm thinking of bricks and mortar businesses. Not everyone can work on the internet or by using it to advertise.
> Whichever way you look at it, times are hard. Much of Europe in economic crisis and almost seven million unemployed in Spain can't be brushed aside.


Mary, I am not brushing it aside. I live with that issue every day. What I am saying is that there are possibilities as long as one is willing to think outside the box.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> Mary, I am not brushing it aside. I live with that issue every day. What I am saying is that there are possibilities as long as one is willing to think outside the box.


If you're talking about using Skype, oovoo, moodle, phone etc I don't see as thinking outside the box, (its use is quite commonplace nowadays after all) only being a bit more flexible. 
However, flexibility is one thing and being pushed into working in ways you don't agree with for less economic reward can be difficult at times (4 hours of Skype class with a Saudi Arabian woman is just one of several examples I can think of!!) So, good and bad, as usual (the good is always getting paid no matter how many classes are given )


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> If you're talking about using Skype, oovoo, moodle, phone etc I don't see as thinking outside the box, (its use is quite commonplace nowadays after all) only being a bit more flexible.
> However, flexibility is one thing and being pushed into working in ways you don't agree with for less economic reward can be difficult at times (4 hours of Skype class with a Saudi Arabian woman is just one of several examples I can think of!!) So, good and bad, as usual (the good is always getting paid no matter how many classes are given )


I don't teach online. I don't think I would like it. 

I was just thinking about what I said and I thought I should come back to clarify. So many of my friends and family here are completely unwilling to move or take a risk for fear of failing and/or for fear of the new and unknown. My OH and I are the freaks for having moved one autonomous community away. I am constantly asked what we are going to do when we have kids. "Who is going to take care of them?" We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. The only unemployed member in my family had a job opportunity the other day but didn't even want to apply because it would have meant leaving his home. 

That's what I mean by thinking outside of the box. So many people put limits on themselves. The market stinks in Andalucia? Look for somewhere else! This is a huge country! One part of your business is rough? Think about all the skills you can offer and look for opportunities or create your own!

Thinking about it, perhaps "thinking outside the box" wasn't the best choice of phrase. However, "the box" to me is the "This is my place. This is my market. I'm staying." attitude.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> I don't teach online. I don't think I would like it.
> 
> I was just thinking about what I said and I thought I should come back to clarify. So many of my friends and family here are completely unwilling to move or take a risk for fear of failing and/or for fear of the new and unknown. My OH and I are the freaks for having moved one autonomous community away. I am constantly asked what we are going to do when we have kids. "Who is going to take care of them?" We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. The only unemployed member in my family had a job opportunity the other day but didn't even want to apply because it would have meant leaving his home.
> 
> ...


The unwillingness to move is certainly true. All of OH's family live in or within 30 mins of Bilbao except us, one uncle who's a priest and another uncle who actually worked in the US and Latin America and we're talking of a family of about 40 adults.
On the work front the less qualified seem more prepared to change, probably because they have to. If there really is no money then you have to take what you can get.
However, whilst I agree that you're only going to get something if you look for it, not everyone has the ability or strength to reinvent themselves, and not everyone has unsung talents. It really isn't reasonable to think that there's work for everyone because there just isn't. Get up and go will help, but it isn't a magic formula.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

The fascinating thing is that the only other folks who have left are the best-prepared people in the group; an aeronautical engineer and a nuclear engineer. They were driven out of the region because of the Basque language requirement, but that's a whoooooooole other can of worms.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> The fascinating thing is that the only other folks who have left are the best-prepared people in the group; an aeronautical engineer and a nuclear engineer. They were driven out of the region because of the Basque language requirement, but *that's a whoooooooole other can of worms*.


Certainly is!!

Time for bed,

Night night!


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