# non-lucrative visa and income tax



## NigelRussco

Hi

I would like to spend 1-year in Spain and I have the requirements for a non-lucrative visa. However should I get the visa does this mean that for the 12 months in Spain I would have to pay Spanish tax on my overseas investments or earnings (investments back in my home country like bank acct interest, stocks, porperty income, etc)? Does this even have to be declared under a 12 month non-lucrative visa?

I understand that I could not work in Spain and that is ok. I don't intend to work for the year that I am there. Any insights would be appreciated!

thanks,
nigel


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## Beachcomber

If you live in Spain for more than 183 days in any fiscal year you are liable to tax on your worldwide income as a resident. However, if you arrive in early July 2012 and leave in late June of 2013 you will not have spent 183 days here in either of those years so will not be liable for tax on your world income as a fiscal resident.


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## NigelRussco

Hi Beachcomber,

Thank you very much for the information. I guess I am a little concerned about getting stuck for the taxes as I just want to relax in Spain for a while. I thought the non-lucrative visa was the way to go, but it seems to just be a visa that gives you a short time in which to get your residency so it may not be the best vehicle for me.


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## xabiaxica

NigelRussco said:


> Hi Beachcomber,
> 
> Thank you very much for the information. I guess I am a little concerned about getting stuck for the taxes as I just want to relax in Spain for a while. I thought the non-lucrative visa was the way to go, but it seems to just be a visa that gives you a short time in which to get your residency so it may not be the best vehicle for me.


are you sure you meant a _non-lucrative residence permit_ ?



> Non-Lucrative Residence Permit
> 
> The non-lucrative residence permit of Spain is granted to people who want to establish their own residence in this country. However, they are not allowed to make any commercial activities in the republic of Spain. To become a Spanish resident, the candidates must gain all the rights obtainable to European residents. This type of permit is not available to everybody. To have this permit, foreign nationals must have a minimum of 75 thousand US dollars as annual income and an extra 15 thousand US dollars per year for additional candidates.
> 
> Children under 18 years are included in the application. This income should have no related professional activity performed in Spain. Spanish migration authorities require candidates to submit evidence proving that they have a house in Spain


from here Spain Visas, Permits and Immigration


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## NigelRussco

Yes - that's the one. Although I believe the requirements have recently been relaxed quite a bit.


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## xabiaxica

NigelRussco said:


> Yes - that's the one. Although I believe the requirements have recently been relaxed quite a bit.


do you have a link to more up to date info?

It would be good to update our links


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## NigelRussco

Beachcomber said:


> If you live in Spain for more than 183 days in any fiscal year you are liable to tax on your worldwide income as a resident. However, if you arrive in early July 2012 and leave in late June of 2013 you will not have spent 183 days here in either of those years so will not be liable for tax on your world income as a fiscal resident.


Does this mean that if you have your residency card and are in Spain for 182 days of less in a given calendar year, that you do not have to file taxes for that year?


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## NigelRussco

xabiachica said:


> do you have a link to more up to date info?
> 
> It would be good to update our links


Hi

Unfortunately I do not have a link to the latest information and was told the latest details at the Spanish Embassy. I remember a few things but not all of it. I can only suggest folks call their embassy and ask. I was not able to find anything updated online myself. Although the information may be out there online but in Spanish (and my Spanish is rather poor at this time).


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## Janell

*Spain!*

Hi Nigel! Did you make it to Spain? I am an american and want to stay here, do you know where I go to file for my non lucrative visa? And its 75k? Thank you so much 










NigelRussco said:


> Hi
> 
> I would like to spend 1-year in Spain and I have the requirements for a non-lucrative visa. However should I get the visa does this mean that for the 12 months in Spain I would have to pay Spanish tax on my overseas investments or earnings (investments back in my home country like bank acct interest, stocks, porperty income, etc)? Does this even have to be declared under a 12 month non-lucrative visa?
> 
> I understand that I could not work in Spain and that is ok. I don't intend to work for the year that I am there. Any insights would be appreciated!
> 
> thanks,
> nigel


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## NickZ

NigelRussco said:


> Does this mean that if you have your residency card and are in Spain for 182 days of less in a given calendar year, that you do not have to file taxes for that year?


I'm guessing Nigel has either figured this out or given up by now but whatever 

CCRA in Ottawa has a international office. Go to google and look for 

NR73 Determination of Residency Status (Leaving Canada)

Download the form ,fill it in and submit to the government. If you're only visiting Spain for a year and not making a full break from Canada CRA will likely declare you a Canadian tax resident. If that is the case the tax treaty tie breakers come into play. Most likely the tax treaty would leave you Canadian tax resident.

That means you would only pay Spanish taxes on Spanish income.


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## xabiaxica

Janell said:


> Hi Nigel! Did you make it to Spain? I am an american and want to stay here, do you know where I go to file for my non lucrative visa? And its 75k? Thank you so much


:welcome:

you need to apply at your nearest Spanish Consulate


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## hwagoner

*Spanish Non-Lucrative Resident Visa*

Hi we applied and received our Spanish Non-Lucrative Resident Visa and are currently living in Spain. 
/SNIP/
I hope that helps.


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## vincypinto

I wll be moving in spain this year. and wl stay 183 days .. I will only spend my savings in spain. I dont earn anything as i am retired . can you explain why i wl be taxed.. or should I file a zero filing


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## xabiaxica

vincypinto said:


> I wll be moving in spain this year. and wl stay 183 days .. I will only spend my savings in spain. I dont earn anything as i am retired . can you explain why i wl be taxed.. or should I file a zero filing


If you are staying for under 6 months then you won't be tax resident. 
Have you looked into the visa situation? 

If you're not from the EU you will need one before coming here, if you are, you will need to register as resident with 3 months of arrival


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## kaipa

xabiaxica said:


> If you are staying for under 6 months then you won't be tax resident.
> Have you looked into the visa situation?
> 
> If you're not from the EU you will need one before coming here, if you are, you will need to register as resident with 3 months of arrival


Not so sure about this. I am being investigated for tax 2016 despite only being 90 days in Spain at end of year and no residency and having had to pay tax for that year in UK.


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## Joppa

kaipa said:


> Not so sure about this. I am being investigated for tax 2016 despite only being 90 days in Spain at end of year and no residency and having had to pay tax for that year in UK.


Get certificates of residency from HMRC for the tax years 2015-16 and 2016-17.


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## kaipa

Joppa said:


> Get certificates of residency from HMRC for the tax years 2015-16 and 2016-17.


Yes I have shown them all that. My lawyer claims they say the day I moved to Spain signalled my intent to move my centre of financial interest and as Spain does not have any split years they will claim for whole year irrespective of time spent. Of course HMRC say that my centre was UK as I was there for way over 183 days!. Still awaiting final decision.


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## xabiaxica

kaipa said:


> Not so sure about this. I am being investigated for tax 2016 despite only being 90 days in Spain at end of year and no residency and having had to pay tax for that year in UK.


Yes, it rather depends on whether you are in fact resident (registered or not) & stay, especially if you worked.

The 183 days is just one of the 'tests of tax residency'.


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## kaipa

xabiaxica said:


> Yes, it rather depends on whether you are in fact resident (registered or not) & stay, especially if you worked.
> 
> The 183 days is just one of the 'tests of tax residency'.


Yes I was aware of that when I moved but was informed that if I had spent more than 183 days in UK in that year then my centre of interest was there and as I was not a resident in Spain until 2017 I was not liable to Spanish tax. Now the hacienda appear to be saying that you can be liable for tax in both countries with two equal centres of financial interest. HMRC say that I cannot claim double tax as they say I was a UK tax resident under the 183 law. Spain says I am a tax resident on day of arrival irrespective of 183!!


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## MataMata

Being in UK for 183 days makes you tax resident but that is not the same as it being your centre of financial interest. You cannot be tax resident in two countries at the same time but you can only have one centre of financial interest. have two!

Essentially if you move to Spain with the intention of becoming resident then the Hacienda can deem you tax resident from the day you set foot in the country.

If the only property you own is in Spain, or it you rent a property in Spain and have no other property elsewhere available to you exclusively, that too makes Spain your centre of financial interest.

Another factor is when you first went on a padron because that is a de facto statement that you habitually live at the address given for that.

Sounds like a common case of bad advice and/or believing the version which closer matched what you wanted to hear, you wouldn't be the first to fall into that trap and for sure won't be the last!

Let's hope they deal with it as a case of a mistake and not a deliberate attempt to evade tax.


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## kaipa

MataMata said:


> Being in UK for 183 days makes you tax resident but that is not the same as it being your centre of financial interest. You cannot be tax resident in two countries at the same time but you can only have one centre of financial interest. have two!
> 
> Essentially if you move to Spain with the intention of becoming resident then the Hacienda can deem you tax resident from the day you set foot in the country.
> 
> If the only property you own is in Spain, or it you rent a property in Spain and have no other property elsewhere available to you exclusively, that too makes Spain your centre of financial interest.
> 
> Another factor is when you first went on a padron because that is a de facto statement that you habitually live at the address given for that.
> 
> Sounds like a common case of bad advice and/or believing the version which closer matched what you wanted to hear, you wouldn't be the first to fall into that trap and for sure won't be the last!
> 
> Let's hope they deal with it as a case of a mistake and not a deliberate attempt to evade tax.


Maybe I will get to share a cell with Juan Carlos!!!


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