# living in spain and working abroad



## charliepirate (Apr 15, 2013)

Hi there
I work overseas internationaly in the oil industry and i was wondering what the rules etc are in regardfs to living in spain and working overseas. I would be moving with my wife and 3 children who would be in country all the time yet i would be working all over the globe, is there anyone who does a similar thing? what are the tax laws etc

any information would be much appreciated, thanks


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## expatmat (Feb 12, 2013)

Tax residents pay tax in Spain on all their worldwide income.
Tax residency (not to be confused with "residencia") is determined by your length of stay.

You will also be potentially tax resident in the UK thanks to the new 90 day ruling.

You could set up a legitimate lifestyle whereby don't become tax resident in Spain but you need careful planning.


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## charliepirate (Apr 15, 2013)

i would not be in the uk unless i had to work in the uk sector of the north sea, we would be looking to live in spain permanent and pay tax there, i was wondering what the rules were in spain? for example the uk you have the 90 day rule


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

charliepirate said:


> i would not be in the uk unless i had to work in the uk sector of the north sea, we would be looking to live in spain permanent and pay tax there, i was wondering what the rules were in spain? for example the uk you have the 90 day rule


there are lots of people in your position

according to Spanish tax rules, if your family lives here & you are financially supporting them then you are tax resident - even if you only visit now & then, even if you NEVER visit

so you would have to declare all your worldwide income & therefore be liable for any income tax due, unless you have already paid it in a country which has a tax treaty with Spain

if your earnings are 'tax free' elsewhere though, you would almost certainly have to pay tax here


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## Wellington10 (Jan 12, 2013)

Hi

My husband also works abroad, he is out of country (Spain) for 8 weeks at a time then 4 weeks leave here in Spain.

My financial advisor told me on Wednesday that my husband does not need to declare his wages as he is out the country and is not classed as a Spanish tax resident. 

His British Army pension is paid direct into his UK account and all taxes & insurance are paid on this.

I think the law here in Spain changes on a regular basis !!! Very difficult to keep up with things !!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Wellington10 said:


> Hi
> 
> My husband also works abroad, he is out of country (Spain) for 8 weeks at a time then 4 weeks leave here in Spain.
> 
> ...


your financial advisor is wrong 

if he is supporting a family in Spain, as far as Spain is concerned he is tax resident here & should submit a tax return

which doesn't necessarily mean that he will pay more tax, because there's a treaty between the UK & Spain which means that you only have to pay once

but he should still do a tax return (unless he isn't financially supporting you)


and that's been the case for a LONG time


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## Wellington10 (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks for your reply...

I will contact my FA tomorrow, he was adamant that my husband does not have to declare it as the money goes no were near Spain, it goes into a UK account but as husband is not a UK resident he has no obligation to do a Spanish tax return. 

I live on his pension which is declared.

Also got to visit my accountant this will so will clarify with him as well.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Wellington10 said:


> Thanks for your reply...
> 
> I will contact my FA tomorrow, he was adamant that my husband does not have to declare it as the money goes no were near Spain, it goes into a UK account but as husband is not a UK resident he has no obligation to do a Spanish tax return.
> 
> ...


is this a Spanish or UK advisor?

sadly a lot of people are wrongly advised about this kind of thing - just look at some of the discussions here about it

even people living here full time have been advised that they don't need to declare for tax .........

it's a complicated issue - but as far as Spain is concerned, if someone is financially supporting someone else who lives here, then they are tax resident - & yes, has to declare ALL income whether it ever comes to Spain or not

as I said, it doesn't necessarily mean paying more


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## Wellington10 (Jan 12, 2013)

Hello again !!!

No both Spanish..... 

He does have an accountant in UK as his wages go through the UK banking system !!! 

Will call both of them tomorrow !!!


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## Dougy (Apr 28, 2012)

xabiachica is 100% correct.

I am a non resident living in Javea and working in oil and gas overseas and regardless of my time in ES, as long as my family is here more than 90 days a year I have to pay Spanish tax.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Dougy said:


> xabiachica is 100% correct.
> 
> I am a non resident living in Javea and working in oil and gas overseas and regardless of my time in ES, as long as my family is here more than 90 days a year I have to pay Spanish tax.


thank you 

so many people in your position are under the impression that they don't have to declare for tax in Spain even if their families live here


they might have been badly advised, or they might be 'ducking & diving' - but they _should be_ declaring for tax


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## Wellington10 (Jan 12, 2013)

Just spoken to my accountant !!

He has just confirmed everything for me....

We only have to declare my husbands Army Pension and rental from our apartment !!!

I am non resident at the moment and my husband is resident in county of his employment.
So long as he does not spend over the 183 days no tax payable !!! He is only home for 16 weeks a year.

His tax forms are all done for this year , will see what happens next year !!!


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## Wellington10 (Jan 12, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> thank you
> 
> so many people in your position are under the impression that they don't have to declare for tax in Spain even if their families live here
> 
> ...



certainly not ducking & diving !!!!


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## Dougy (Apr 28, 2012)

If you are nonresident that is all different story. Having in mind that if you spend more than 3 months in ES you are automatically classed as resident according to Spanish law


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Wellington10 said:


> Just spoken to my accountant !!
> 
> He has just confirmed everything for me....
> 
> ...


well - I still reckon that's wrong............... but if you come unstuck just blame the accountant......


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

*army pension*

Surely army pensions don't have to be declared in Spain, as they can only be taxed in the UK?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

extranjero said:


> Surely army pensions don't have to be declared in Spain, as they can only be taxed in the UK?


if you're resident in Spain you have to declare _everything _- of course if tax has already been paid you don't pay again


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

As I understand everything here, Xabi is 100% correct. My parents were recently advised by a Spanish accountant that they are not tax resident here even though they have lived here more than a year. He is clearly wrong but so many Spanish accountants seem to have not understood the Spanish system which is a tad worrying if not unsurprising.


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## Wellington10 (Jan 12, 2013)

How come so many Spanish accountants seem to have it wrong !!!!

Can I ask are all of you are you with English or Spanish Accountants.........

Yes pension is already taxed at source in the UK but this and any assets ie our apartment which we rent out do have to be declared. AS it is money coming into the country.

I have also contacted my FA and he confirmed what he said we correct.

I have kept every bit of correspondence from our accountant .. we will see what happens !!!!


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## Wellington10 (Jan 12, 2013)

Are there any accountants here on this forum that could confirm things !!!!


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Go to the British Embassy website which has all the info you need. Spain is in a mess and part of the problem is that people such as accountants do get it wrong. It's deplorable and almost unbelievable but when you have lived here for a while you realise that, sadly, it's true.


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## el romeral (May 8, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> there are lots of people in your position
> 
> according to Spanish tax rules, if your family lives here & you are financially supporting them then you are tax resident - even if you only visit now & then, even if you NEVER visit
> 
> ...


Holy thread resurrection Batman

How does it work for someone who has a house in Spain, lives there when not working but supports no family and works abroad and pays taxes there?

Would they be expected to declare in Spain? :juggle:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

el romeral said:


> Holy thread resurrection Batman
> 
> How does it work for someone who has a house in Spain, lives there when not working but supports no family and works abroad and pays taxes there?
> 
> Would they be expected to declare in Spain? :juggle:


That would depend on several things. How much time you spend in Spain, & whether you own a property where you work, for instance.


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## Mykap (Jan 21, 2010)

charliepirate said:


> Hi there
> I work overseas internationaly in the oil industry and i was wondering what the rules etc are in regardfs to living in spain and working overseas. I would be moving with my wife and 3 children who would be in country all the time yet i would be working all over the globe, is there anyone who does a similar thing? what are the tax laws etc
> 
> any information would be much appreciated, thanks


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougy View Post
xabiachica is 100% correct.

I am a non resident living in Javea and working in oil and gas overseas and regardless of my time in ES, as long as my family is here more than 90 days a year I have to pay Spanish tax.


Dougy is correct.

OP I suspect your situation is similar to mine. I am in O&G and have worked abroad for years while keeping a villa in Spain and a house in the UK. Now with the oil price effecting work prospects and forcing down day rates the wife and I have decided to keep only one house and relocate to Spain full time. It was always the plan to retire there anyway, the oil price has just advanced our plans.

Previously I had no tax due in UK I qualified under the old 90 day rule and no tax in Spain as non resident and less than 90 days a year there. Before the ducking and diving accusations start - *tax paid* in the overseas country of employment. 

Owning or not owning a property in the country of employment or residence has no bearing on the income tax situation. However in O&G most companies pay for the apartment and the income tax you so you just get the end of year tax receipt.

BTW UK rules have changed and the old 90 day rule has been replaced by a residency test which actually relaxed things a bit for expat 'arrivers'. 

So on our move to Spain full time in February I will have to make the necessary notifications. While I still work away on a 28/28 basis I have to accept that as my wife will be there all the time I'll have to go into the Spanish tax system at some stage in the future. 

Best to seek proper financial advice (I will be) rather than rely on forums. 

Good luck with the move!_ - Oops guess you are already there! _


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## mirazh (Aug 17, 2016)

Hi, i know this post is old but my husband in similar position. He works overseas 6 weeks away and 4 weeks home. We are thinking of relocating to Spain but was wondering about visa. Myself and our 2 kids would be getting non-lucrative visa but because he is away most of the time what kind of visa can he get? Tourist visa only lets you to stay 90 days. If he gets residency visa and stays in Spain less than 6 month, i was reading that there is a chance not getting extended for another year? Thank you.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mirazh said:


> Hi, i know this post is old but my husband in similar position. He works overseas 6 weeks away and 4 weeks home. We are thinking of relocating to Spain but was wondering about visa. Myself and our 2 kids would be getting non-lucrative visa but because he is away most of the time what kind of visa can he get? Tourist visa only lets you to stay 90 days. If he gets residency visa and stays in Spain less than 6 month, i was reading that there is a chance not getting extended for another year? Thank you.


You really need to speak to the Spanish consulate. You're probably not the only family in this position.


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