# Where to put household contents while doing my location searches



## Lancashire_Lass

Hi Everyone and Happy Nee Year! I took a look through old posts but didn’t find anything that covers my situation so hoping someone has pointers/suggestions for me. Apologies in advance - this is a long post 😳
I am hoping to get a long stay visa (retiring from USA, and can claim some pensions from my old UK pensions although not yet at UK retirement age for S1 etc.) and then use that to spend time in two or three locations to find the one best suited to me. Discovered that online isn’t going to be sufficient research and need boots on the ground. Spending several weeks in each. Once I have narrowed down was looking to start my house hunt. As I know that finding a house is probably the easiest part and the purchase takes a good while, I am thinking that would be 12-18 months total…. 
I cannot afford the rent in California once I stop working and cannot have ties in the US either so I will need to pack up my three bed house contents and ship by end December 2022 latest. I have too much that would be prohibitively expensive to replace to consider selling up everything, setting aside the items that are from family. So now (finally I hear you say) I get to the question(s) that I hope someone may have experience with:
1. Will the shipper store in France for me? If so how long? Safe?
2. Would it be better to bring into France and find a long stay storage - bearing in mind I don’t yet know which end of France will end up and so would find difficult to monitor/visit. 
3. Can I even import my belongings on a long stay visitors visa anyway?
4. I am not an American citizen, but British, so would be looking to apply from here unless anyone thinks easier to apply from UK?
Been sitting and worrying about this for ages, and not had any experience of storage facilities, let alone in France. I will hopefully find a gite or VRBO to rent and don’t want to try and find unfurnished house large enough, even if that were possible. 
I think I may be getting myself wrapped around the axle on this, and it may actually be very simple, but not sure if what is possible or feasible.
Many thanks for any and all replies.


----------



## EuroTrash

I have no clue about the US, but in the UK you could simply arrange for a removals company to come and load all your worldlies into a container, seal the container and store it "somewhere" until you give them a destination to which to deliver it. 
As I recall I was told that I could if necessary be given access to the container whilst in storage but I needed to give them a few day's notice in order for it to be made accessible. I imagined a yard full of containers stacked one on top of the other, In fact I never wanted to access it. It stayed in storage for around 4 years I think. Eventually I had it delivered. I had forgotten that I ever owned half of the stuff, and wondered why the heck I'd thought I couldn't live without it and had been paying to store it for 4 years. But it was all undamaged as far as I remember.


----------



## Bevdeforges

First let's see what we can do with your specific questions, then a few general comments.



Lancashire_Lass said:


> 1. Will the shipper store in France for me? If so how long? Safe?


Probably - you would need to ask the moving company that you use to transport your household goods. Storage costs in France many be more than they would be in the US, but you won't know until you ask. 


> 2. Would it be better to bring into France and find a long stay storage - bearing in mind I don’t yet know which end of France will end up and so would find difficult to monitor/visit.


This is where you want to deal with an international mover rather than trying to ship it yourself. But how often do you anticipate "visiting" your stuff while looking for a place to settle?


> 3. Can I even import my belongings on a long stay visitors visa anyway?


Sure you can - but do be sure to get a renewable visitor visa (i.e. check the box to say that you are looking to stay for 1 year + rather than just 6 months to one year. Just be aware that you have one year from the date your visa becomes valid to import your household goods without paying customs charges or VAT. That's simply a deadline for the importation of your household goods - but technically you're supposed to confirm that you will not be selling any of those goods within a year or so of the date you first imported them. So don't bring over anything you won't be able to keep.


> 4. I am not an American citizen, but British, so would be looking to apply from here unless anyone thinks easier to apply from UK?


There's no particular reason you should have to return to the UK first - in fact that may actually complicate things given the current state of things. You are generally expected to apply for a long-stay visa from the country in which you are currently resident.

OK, a few general comments. You are aware, I hope, that you will need to provide an address where you can be reached by postal mail during your first few months in France. That can rule out some forms of "holiday rentals" because you need to have a place where you can put your name on the mailbox and (ideally) on the utility bills while you are sorting out your immigration matters. (Also where your mail can be forwarded to you if you move on from your initial address.) 

I would not be in a big hurry to buy a property after arrival. You're going to find that French homes (whether apartments or houses) are considerably smaller than those in the US. Shipping all your household stuff over may not be a great idea. Ideally, you may want to make a couple of initial "reconnaissance runs" (i.e. extended visits) to France to try to narrow down the area you are looking at for longer term residence. Once you have a sense of the size of French homes (especially those you can afford), you can pare down your worldly belongings before you incur the expense of moving them over and storing them. Unloading American size furniture and appliances, plus English language books can be difficult to impossible over here and it seems a shame to pay to ship and store lots of stuff you're just going to have to get rid of to fit into a new place, whether rented or purchased.

You should probably plan on renting a place for the first year (at least) and maybe two before buying a house here. It takes a while to learn the ins and outs of any particular area and your early months in France will no doubt be taken up with the administrative and practical matters of getting settled and registered with the various place you need to register with. The process of renting and purchase for residential property are considerably different from how these things are done in the US, too, so you will need some time to get used to French rules and regulations, set up the necessary bank accounts and other basics, and judge the markets for what you can afford. Again, a couple of well planned extended "tourist" visits to try to narrow down your choices and learn how things work here could pay off.


----------



## BackinFrance

Nothing wrong with storage facilities in France and your removal company should be able to ship your goods to one and eventually to have them moved to your ultimate destinatiorrrrn. I cannot give you an idea of current fees, and of course the goods need to continue to be insured.. I believe that at the moment shipping from the US can take some considerable time. 

You should ensure you arrange for your removaliist to have their agent in France clear your goods through customs, however avoid having your goods stored at the port of arrival as those facilities are the most expensive. Bring those things you will need in the meantime separately, there are services that will deliver quickly to your initial location (they send by air).


----------



## Crabtree

And think really hard about what to keep and what to sell/give to charity As ET says you can probably live without a lot of stuff you thought you really needed Also do not bother bringing electricals For some reason many folks from the US feel they cannot live without a fridge the size of a small house then find that the electrical system is different here


----------



## boilerman

Crabtree said:


> And think really hard about what to keep and what to sell/give to charity As ET says you can probably live without a lot of stuff you thought you really needed Also do not bother bringing electricals For some reason many folks from the US feel they cannot live without a fridge the size of a small house then find that the electrical system is different here


Even though the British and French electrical supplies are virtually the same, we bought all our electrical white goods from the local Gitem. 
It helps the local economy and we got a cadeau😀


----------



## papaia

BackinFrance said:


> Nothing wrong with storage facilities in France...


Done exactly what's been described, a few months ago: local storage at final destination (HOMEBOX for us - fairly affordable and month by month payment), and US - France S&H carried out by partners of the general contractor (Rainier), end-to-end, including customs processing.


----------



## Bevdeforges

Crabtree said:


> Also do not bother bringing electricals For some reason many folks from the US feel they cannot live without a fridge the size of a small house then find that the electrical system is different here


It's not only the electrical systems (for which you will need large transformers - not just "converters") - but you will find that the space available for most large appliances in French homes is much smaller than you might think. Refrigerators, washers and dryers, even the massive big screen TVs tend to be much smaller over here for the smaller homes and rooms.


----------



## boilerman

When we come over, we buy fresh food most days so there's not much need for big fridges and freezers. Just a thought.


----------



## Lancashire_Lass

Thank you so much for the comments and ideas. I was aware of the voltage and hertz differences, and plan on buying new electrical items for sure. Toying with the idea of a transformer for a couple of big ticket items but mostly selling or giving to friends/neighbors/charity. And although I love my big refrigerator, I rent so it isn’t mine and I think they might notice lol. @Crabtree you gave me a good laugh as I know most of my friends here would be horrified not to have that small house in their kitchen… But comments re: fresh food and regular market trips (@boilerman )are part of reason to come to France so point well taken. 
Will be looking for a larger home (3/4 beds) with a bit of space - similar to my UK place when I lived there. Gardens and possibly a pool - so hoping that my furniture will fit. Quite a bit of it came from my UK house over here (company paid) so thinking that should be good.
Re: visiting my stuff, I decided to make a ‘shortlist’ of stuff I need in the interim, and ship that separately. So fingers crossed will not have too much where I guessed wrong. But have credit card so will buy if absolutely necessary. Another great point though, and possibly another shipment (smaller though).
Reconnaissance runs @Bevdeforges were on my agenda, but then COVID put the kibosh on those. So now am running up against a deadline to abandon my GC (potential Exit tax) and leaving work to do them with associated $$ paying for my CA rental at the same time as no money coming in not financially viable unless have no option. But spending $000 for every three months am away is worrying me. Hence my idea to just put everything into the container, get on the plane, and rent for a few months at a time in 2/3 locations. I didn’t think I would be able to find a longer term rental (seems from what I read that it is almost impossible to get landlords to rent to someone like me, fresh off the boat)? And the rentals are for three years?
a lot to think about for sure but at least I now know I have the option to store in a container for a year or so.


EuroTrash said:


> I have no clue about the US, but in the UK you could simply arrange for a removals company to come and load all your worldlies into a container, seal the container and store it "somewhere" until you give them a destination to which to deliver it.
> As I recall I was told that I could if necessary be given access to the container whilst in storage but I needed to give them a few day's notice in order for it to be made accessible. I imagined a yard full of containers stacked one on top of the other, In fact I never wanted to access it. It stayed in storage for around 4 years I think. Eventually I had it delivered. I had forgotten that I ever owned half of the stuff, and wondered why the heck I'd thought I couldn't live without it and had been paying to store it for 4 years. But it was all undamaged as far as I remember.


Thank you - reassuring that someone already did something similar and so in theory it is an option at least.


----------



## Lancashire_Lass

Bevdeforges said:


> First let's see what we can do with your specific questions, then a few general comments.
> 
> 
> Probably - you would need to ask the moving company that you use to transport your household goods. Storage costs in France many be more than they would be in the US, but you won't know until you ask.
> 
> This is where you want to deal with an international mover rather than trying to ship it yourself. But how often do you anticipate "visiting" your stuff while looking for a place to settle?
> 
> Sure you can - but do be sure to get a renewable visitor visa (i.e. check the box to say that you are looking to stay for 1 year + rather than just 6 months to one year. Just be aware that you have one year from the date your visa becomes valid to import your household goods without paying customs charges or VAT. That's simply a deadline for the importation of your household goods - but technically you're supposed to confirm that you will not be selling any of those goods within a year or so of the date you first imported them. So don't bring over anything you won't be able to keep.
> 
> There's no particular reason you should have to return to the UK first - in fact that may actually complicate things given the current state of things. You are generally expected to apply for a long-stay visa from the country in which you are currently resident.
> 
> OK, a few general comments. You are aware, I hope, that you will need to provide an address where you can be reached by postal mail during your first few months in France. That can rule out some forms of "holiday rentals" because you need to have a place where you can put your name on the mailbox and (ideally) on the utility bills while you are sorting out your immigration matters. (Also where your mail can be forwarded to you if you move on from your initial address.)
> 
> I would not be in a big hurry to buy a property after arrival. You're going to find that French homes (whether apartments or houses) are considerably smaller than those in the US. Shipping all your household stuff over may not be a great idea. Ideally, you may want to make a couple of initial "reconnaissance runs" (i.e. extended visits) to France to try to narrow down the area you are looking at for longer term residence. Once you have a sense of the size of French homes (especially those you can afford), you can pare down your worldly belongings before you incur the expense of moving them over and storing them. Unloading American size furniture and appliances, plus English language books can be difficult to impossible over here and it seems a shame to pay to ship and store lots of stuff you're just going to have to get rid of to fit into a new place, whether rented or purchased.
> 
> You should probably plan on renting a place for the first year (at least) and maybe two before buying a house here. It takes a while to learn the ins and outs of any particular area and your early months in France will no doubt be taken up with the administrative and practical matters of getting settled and registered with the various place you need to register with. The process of renting and purchase for residential property are considerably different from how these things are done in the US, too, so you will need some time to get used to French rules and regulations, set up the necessary bank accounts and other basics, and judge the markets for what you can afford. Again, a couple of well planned extended "tourist" visits to try to narrow down your choices and learn how things work here could pay off.


Thank you, all good points and a lot of detail, much appreciated. 
I had hoped to be able to at least spend a few vacations over the past two years doing a preliminary recce, but COVID got in the way. Between a rock and a hard place as I would find it difficult to pay the exorbitant rental rate for my current rental in California without a job - and that would be needed to free up my time for extended visits. And even if I sold every stick of furniture possible too much would be left - family heirlooms and other such items. Let alone the cost to replace. So stuck with the ‘have to ship’ everything option. 
Thought about option where I could leave the US and live in UK with family but then would have to apply from there. And then would have the customs twice (USA > UK > France) and have to rent there, as well as having to be in UK for 12 months minimum I believe. And not any real advantage I could see. 
I have read that some VRBO rentals could qualify if the owner helps, or a winter let? At least to get the visa? That was my plan - and that winter let for a few months would give me a base to explore and then rent again to see if it suited on longer acquaintance 😊
So grateful for this forum. Everyone is amazingly generous with their time and experience ❤


----------



## Lancashire_Lass

papaia said:


> Done exactly what's been described, a few months ago: local storage at final destination (HOMEBOX for us - fairly affordable and month by month payment), and US - France S&H carried out by partners of the general contractor (Rainier), end-to-end, including customs processing.


Thanks Papaia - glad to hear that you had success with the same issues. Will take a look at your other posts but any pointers much appreciated. 
I seem to have posted twice so apologies to the forum 😳.


----------



## Franco-Belgian Brit

Just a little precision, when you say "2 or 3 locations", which I assume is your shortlist from your internet research, are these;
a) departments that touch each other
or
b) different parts of France (e.g. Paris, Lyon and Bordeaux)?

I ask because we are down to around half a dozen departments which fall into category "a". One option for us is to rent for a year in a department central to our shortlist and use it as a base to explore all of them. This avoids your 2 to 3 separate rentals. Obviously, unavoidable with option "b".

I assume you will get a car when here to get around?


----------



## Bevdeforges

Actually, FBB, that's a really good idea. Even if the regions under consideration are at far flung corners of France, the various administrative "stuff" is going to consume a fair amount of time during LL's first 6 to 12 months in France. Getting a longer term (say, 6 to 12 month) rental, potentially a furnished rental, would allow for more flexibility in the house hunting process - as long as the household goods could be stored somewhere here in France (post-customs clearance). And if the potential long-term sites are diverse, it would also give LL a chance to try out the French public transport system (primarily the trains). 

Seriously, I would do whatever you can to try to keep your plans as flexible as possible. Besides administrative hassles (which always seem to arise at just the wrong moment), you will probably find that your understanding of how things work here in France may change your plans, no matter how well researched before arrival. Being able to (just as an example) stay on in rented premises for a second year while you explore an area that hadn't been on your list previously could give you a whole different outlook on things. Or if you find the "ideal place" sooner than expected, in a furnished rental you can always give notice at the beginning of the month. Several people have mentioned rental options online for "sabbatical rentals" which could be a possibility, though you might be obliged to stay in the place for the full term of the agreement. (Which ultimately might not be a bad thing.)

Might be a good idea to start talking to some movers to see what they can tell you about making an international move and what options are available for storing your household goods in France after they have cleared customs. There are those "self-serve" storage places here, too, but obviously, things depend on where you want things moved and how much stuff you wind up moving. Just try to keep your life as simple as possible during what is going to be something of a stressful few months.


----------



## Keri22

There is also the driving permit issue. At some point you will need a French permit. Is a California permit transferable? Or do you have a GB permit?

On shipping your stuff, my advice is really pare it down. Its part of the integration process to shop! 

And, a thought - could you ship and store in France, live in UK with family and make easy 3 month trips over to sort out a location, and then six months or so down the line get your long term visa?


----------



## Bevdeforges

A California driving license is definitely not exchangeable. (Always a sore point for those moving here from California.) But this is exactly the type of "administrative" stuff that will occupy your first year of living in France and why you want to allow yourself lots of time to attend to these various obligations without additional pressure to find a long-term place to live.

One thought on the "family heirloom" items mentioned above. Just give some consideration to what will happen to those items on your passing, assuming that you remain in France (or even in Europe). If you would consider keeping them in the family, maybe better to give them to nieces and nephews before you move, in order to pare down your stuff and/or avoid having to ship them back to the US. What you consider "heirlooms" may or may not be considered "antiques" here in Europe and may be difficult to sell should you need or decide to.


----------



## Lancashire_Lass

Franco-Belgian Brit said:


> Just a little precision, when you say "2 or 3 locations", which I assume is your shortlist from your internet research, are these;
> a) departments that touch each other
> or
> b) different parts of France (e.g. Paris, Lyon and Bordeaux)?
> 
> I ask because we are down to around half a dozen departments which fall into category "a". One option for us is to rent for a year in a department central to our shortlist and use it as a base to explore all of them. This avoids your 2 to 3 separate rentals. Obviously, unavoidable with option "b".
> 
> I assume you will get a car when here to get around?


Hi.
Looking at Charente, Nouvelle Aquitaine and possibly Dordogne. My criteria are climate (dislike very hot weather), house prices as want a larger house with at least a garden +/- pool. So covering a lot of ground but at least not widely far apart. 
I am planning on bringing my car and investigated the requirements and costs. Which are a lot less than selling here and buying new there. I can get it switched to be UK legal but not sure what is then needed to get it French legal after that (as would have been ‘amended from original spec’. Mark Rimmer gave me a contact there who do this kind of thing. But I do have a UK license (old green paper one but still valid until am 70) so that would need updating.


----------



## Bevdeforges

Lancashire_Lass said:


> I am planning on bringing my car and investigated the requirements and costs. Which are a lot less than selling here and buying new there.


You're going to bring your car from the US? That may not be advisable and you definitely need to consider more than just just the "costs" of transport and registration. But I'll let those with more experience in that department advise you.


----------



## Lancashire_Lass

Bevdeforges said:


> A California driving license is definitely not exchangeable. (Always a sore point for those moving here from California.) But this is exactly the type of "administrative" stuff that will occupy your first year of living in France and why you want to allow yourself lots of time to attend to these various obligations without additional pressure to find a long-term place to live.
> 
> One thought on the "family heirloom" items mentioned above. Just give some consideration to what will happen to those items on your passing, assuming that you remain in France (or even in Europe). If you would consider keeping them in the family, maybe better to give them to nieces and nephews before you move, in order to pare down your stuff and/or avoid having to ship them back to the US. What you consider "heirlooms" may or may not be considered "antiques" here in Europe and may be difficult to sell should you need or decide to.


Thanks Bev. I forgot to mention I have no family or anyone to leave to. One nephew in the UK with one child and two sisters. The heirlooms are that as they have been with the family for three generations and I am a sentimental person and it would seriously pain me to sell them. And I agree that they wouldn’t be worth much on sale but would be a fair few thousands to replace. I am hoping to be able to do some shopping for various furniture items in France once I get a feel for house size. But looking for 1500-2000 sq ft. 
I agree that so much seems unknowable and unplannable which is painful to my inner control freak. I am an inveterate list maker. I am going with the flow as much as possible, once I have identified the best strategy. 😊


----------



## Lancashire_Lass

Keri22 said:


> There is also the driving permit issue. At some point you will need a French permit. Is a California permit transferable? Or do you have a GB permit?
> 
> On shipping your stuff, my advice is really pare it down. Its part of the integration process to shop!
> 
> And, a thought - could you ship and store in France, live in UK with family and make easy 3 month trips over to sort out a location, and then six months or so down the line get your long term visa?


Thanks and that was in my mind as potential but without the shipping to France so thank you! It seems to be at least an option worth investigating. Will check with the international shippers how that works (am I allowed to bring in furniture etc as a non resident (Customs). I think I misunderstood Bev when she said not a good idea (assumed due to Brexit but now think that was because am a US resident and so would need to apply from the US…). 
It does seem easier to stay with family in UK or get a short term furnished rental to cover the three months between visits so thank you - had not even thought about sending shipment to France and then applying from UK so that is a great idea! 🤗. I think I have gotten myself so far into the ‘what if’ scenarios I needed outside eyes from the forum.


----------



## Bevdeforges

Again, be careful. The duty and VAT free import of household goods requires that you have a long-stay visa/residence permit. If you ship to France before you have applied for the long stay visa, you may run into difficulties clearing customs with your goods.

Importing a car from the US adds considerably to the complication (not to mention the costs). Normally, you would need a certificate of compliance with EU regs (which can cost a couple hundred euros from the manufacturer) - but if your car was purchased in the US it will conform to US regulations, not European ones. That's where the "fun" starts and you may find you need to replace basic stuff like seat belts, windshield, and other equipment with replacements that meet the EU norms.


----------



## Franco-Belgian Brit

Lancashire_Lass said:


> Hi.
> Looking at Charente, Nouvelle Aquitaine and possibly Dordogne. My criteria are climate (dislike very hot weather), house prices as want a larger house with at least a garden +/- pool. So covering a lot of ground but at least not widely far apart.
> I am planning on bringing my car and investigated the requirements and costs. Which are a lot less than selling here and buying new there. I can get it switched to be UK legal but not sure what is then needed to get it French legal after that (as would have been ‘amended from original spec’. Mark Rimmer gave me a contact there who do this kind of thing. But I do have a UK license (old green paper one but still valid until am 70) so that would need updating.


Hi. Covers some of our ground in our search. Charente (part of), Haute Vienne and North Dordogne are areas of interest for us. We're also looking at Correze, Creuse, Aveyron, Lot... that area in general.


----------



## boilerman

Lancashire_Lass said:


> Thanks and that was in my mind as potential but without the shipping to France so thank you! It seems to be at least an option worth investigating. Will check with the international shippers how that works (am I allowed to bring in furniture etc as a non resident (Customs). I think I misunderstood Bev when she said not a good idea (assumed due to Brexit but now think that was because am a US resident and so would need to apply from the US…).
> It does seem easier to stay with family in UK or get a short term furnished rental to cover the three months between visits so thank you - had not even thought about sending shipment to France and then applying from UK so that is a great idea! 🤗. I think I have gotten myself so far into the ‘what if’ scenarios I needed outside eyes from the forum.


What a nightmare, I cant throw away second hand masks without thinking"what a waste", never mind my families bits and pieces, best of luck LL


----------



## Lancashire_Lass

Bevdeforges said:


> Again, be careful. The duty and VAT free import of household goods requires that you have a long-stay visa/residence permit. If you ship to France before you have applied for the long stay visa, you may run into difficulties clearing customs with your goods.
> 
> Importing a car from the US adds considerably to the complication (not to mention the costs). Normally, you would need a certificate of compliance with EU regs (which can cost a couple hundred euros from the manufacturer) - but if your car was purchased in the US it will conform to US regulations, not European ones. That's where the "fun" starts and you may find you need to replace basic stuff like seat belts, windshield, and other equipment with replacements that meet the EU norms.


Thanks Bev. Good for thought. I will call the firms that do the adaptations as the glass exchange is not mentioned in either UK or French indicative pricing.


boilerman said:


> What a nightmare, I cant throw away second hand masks without thinking"what a waste", never mind my families bits and pieces, best of luck LL


Thank you!


----------



## Lancashire_Lass

Franco-Belgian Brit said:


> Hi. Covers some of our ground in our search. Charente (part of), Haute Vienne and North Dordogne are areas of interest for us. We're also looking at Correze, Creuse, Aveyron, Lot... that area in general.


Interesting. Any particular criteria in general to make you pick those? Sometimes think would be great to have the general location of the members next to their names so when they mention benefits to where they live - like healthcare or weather. I often copy posts that mention pluses or minuses for my search and have them in an increasingly long Note in my iPhone lol 😀. I know microclimates are common but weather is a big one as is healthcare. Good luck in you search!


----------



## Franco-Belgian Brit

Lancashire_Lass said:


> Interesting. Any particular criteria in general to make you pick those? Sometimes think would be great to have the general location of the members next to their names so when they mention benefits to where they live - like healthcare or weather. I often copy posts that mention pluses or minuses for my search and have them in an increasingly long Note in my iPhone lol 😀. I know microclimates are common but weather is a big one as is healthcare. Good luck in you search!


Partly weather but mainly because France is where the heart is. We had a house in Isere, I have spent a bit of time in the Landes, my wife in Alsace, Normandy and the Midi. So, we want somewhere new to try. We've done a few "reccie" trips and will do in the coming year. Next one will be the areas around Cahors and Rodez and the areas in between.

As for microclimates, that is the main reason the the Cantal and Haute Loire have been eliminated.


----------



## Chrissippus

Keri22 said:


> There is also the driving permit issue. At some point you will need a French permit. Is a California permit transferable? Or do you have a GB permit?


I gather that the OP already understands that he has to sever his ties to CA completely to avoid the state's coming after him for taxes as some point in the future, based on a supposed "intention to return." CA is the most aggressive state in this regard. Before leaving he should surrender his CA driver's license to the DMV and get a receipt for it. He should take all the other steps mentioned in the CA tax domicile regulations to avoid doing anything that could imply an "intention to return."


----------



## Chrissippus

Bevdeforges said:


> Again, be careful. The duty and VAT free import of household goods requires that you have a long-stay visa/residence permit.


I will face a similar problem with household goods as the OP, but I will be entering as an Irish national without needing a visa or even a carte de séjour. Will my household goods nevertheless be free of duties and VAT?


----------



## Bevdeforges

Customs and VAT apply only to goods being shipped into the EU from outside the EU.


----------



## Chrissippus

Bevdeforges said:


> Customs and VAT apply only to goods being shipped into the EU from outside the EU.


My goods will be shipped from Thailand.


----------



## Bevdeforges

Chrissippus said:


> My goods will be shipped from Thailand.


That could be an issue. To clear customs for your goods, I suspect you'll need to provide proof of residence in France - including proof of your arrival date. You may want to consider applying for a carte de séjour as soon as you arrive. (Shipping household goods from a distance like that can often take 3 months or so - and given the current shipping issues, perhaps more.) You are entitled to a carte de séjour if you don't have a national i.d. card from your country of nationality - or show them the incoming passport stamp for when you entered the country and a standard proof of residence (utility bill, rent agreement, whatever). But since the goods will be coming in from outside the EU, you'll be subject to the rules for importation from a "third country" and will need to import your stuff within a year of your arrival.


----------



## Chrissippus

Bevdeforges said:


> That could be an issue. To clear customs for your goods, I suspect you'll need to provide proof of residence in France - including proof of your arrival date. You may want to consider applying for a carte de séjour as soon as you arrive. (Shipping household goods from a distance like that can often take 3 months or so - and given the current shipping issues, perhaps more.) You are entitled to a carte de séjour if you don't have a national i.d. card from your country of nationality - or show them the incoming passport stamp for when you entered the country and a standard proof of residence (utility bill, rent agreement, whatever). But since the goods will be coming in from outside the EU, you'll be subject to the rules for importation from a "third country" and will need to import your stuff within a year of your arrival.


Does that mean that I will have to pay duties?


----------



## Bevdeforges

Chrissippus said:


> Does that mean that I will have to pay duties?


I don't know for sure, but I don't think so. Basically, you'll fall under the same rules as for anyone moving to France from outside the EU in that you'll have a year to import your stuff duty free (other than for those items purchased in the 6 months prior to the move). All that changes is what you need to show to prove your residence in France and your date of arrival.


----------



## Kenpimentel

We are just finishing our move to Brest.

USA citizen, FL resident
Previously living in UK
Moved goods from UK to France (done)
Moving goods from FL to France (on a ship, arriving soon)
Currently on work visa

Experience

As noted previously, you have to declare everything up front (which we did when we moved from USA to UK and then from UK to France)
It's OK to break up the shipments, but you only have 1 year to bring over to avoid Custom fees
Customs will be finicky about the paperwork and wanted proof of residency and visa
We moved about 600 cf (17 cubic meters) from FL to Brest for $8K using Morgan Shipping (they come and load and they deliver to destination), took about 3 mo, but we were not in a rush either
Storage in Brest is super cheap. We paid e109/mo for half a 20' container. They are Selfstock. I would guess there are others like this everywhere. Easy to get and get out of.
We did not take the expensive insurance the shipping companies offer, we used our USAA renter insurance (which covers international moves) and I think paid about 1/10th the cost

Good luck!


----------



## bhamham

Kenpimentel said:


> We are just finishing our move to Brest.
> 
> USA citizen, FL resident
> Previously living in UK
> Moved goods from UK to France (done)
> Moving goods from FL to France (on a ship, arriving soon)
> Currently on work visa
> 
> Experience
> 
> As noted previously, you have to declare everything up front (which we did when we moved from USA to UK and then from UK to France)
> It's OK to break up the shipments, but you only have 1 year to bring over to avoid Custom fees
> Customs will be finicky about the paperwork and wanted proof of residency and visa
> We moved about 600 cf (17 cubic meters) from FL to Brest for $8K using Morgan Shipping (they come and load and they deliver to destination), took about 3 mo, but we were not in a rush either
> Storage in Brest is super cheap. We paid e109/mo for half a 20' container. They are Selfstock. I would guess there are others like this everywhere. Easy to get and get out of.
> We did not take the expensive insurance the shipping companies offer, we used our USAA renter insurance (which covers international moves) and I think paid about 1/10th the cost
> 
> Good luck!


Nice write-up. I've used Selfstock at two locations. It's a good company.


----------



## LaBatarde

Just a thought - I brought ALL my stuff from Orkney to France. Before I came I rented an _unfurnished_ house, so all my stuff was around me immediately and all the surplus in listed boxes in a spare bedroom. This gave me a very comfortable five months before moving the lot again into the house I eventually bought. No storage fees and everything felt like home from day one. Would I do it again? Yes. The only thing I did wrong was to give away the contents of my workshop and bitterly regret not having all my nuts and bolts to hand.

All the very best.


----------



## boilerman

LaBatarde said:


> Just a thought - I brought ALL my stuff from Orkney to France. Before I came I rented an _unfurnished_ house, so all my stuff was around me immediately and all the surplus in listed boxes in a spare bedroom. This gave me a very comfortable five months before moving the lot again into the house I eventually bought. No storage fees and everything felt like home from day one. Would I do it again? Yes. The only thing I did wrong was to give away the contents of my workshop and bitterly regret not having all my nuts and bolts to hand.
> 
> All the very best.


Good idea


----------



## Franco-Belgian Brit

LaBatarde said:


> Just a thought - I brought ALL my stuff from Orkney to France. Before I came I rented an _unfurnished_ house, so all my stuff was around me immediately and all the surplus in listed boxes in a spare bedroom. This gave me a very comfortable five months before moving the lot again into the house I eventually bought. No storage fees and everything felt like home from day one. Would I do it again? Yes. The only thing I did wrong was to give away the contents of my workshop and bitterly regret not having all my nuts and bolts to hand.
> 
> All the very best.


I am pondering something along those lines.

Oh, and I love Orkney 👍


----------

