# is it doable?



## yerpal (Feb 27, 2011)

I want to move out to Southern Spain.
I've been self employed for twenty five years or more in the UK without ever advertising, getting instead all my work through recommendation.
Yes obviously it will be difficult to get established here but I already speak some basic Spanish and do work to a high standard.
Is it doable?
I have no baggage either emotional or financial and I love Spanish culture (yes including Flamenco...:clap2::clap2::clap2
I'm sure that helps


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Obvious question - what work do you do?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jimenato said:


> Obvious question - what work do you do?


http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/75879-im-here.html

Has the answer

Jo xxx


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

yerpal said:


> I want to move out to Southern Spain.
> I've been self employed for twenty five years or more in the UK without ever advertising, getting instead all my work through recommendation.
> Yes obviously it will be difficult to get established here but I already speak some basic Spanish and do work to a high standard.
> Is it doable?
> ...


The only thing Flamenco will give you is some good nights out in Flamenco land if you have your beer money 

Let's do a simple business model 

Outgoings to live say you need 1000 Es a month (sort of breadline stuff).

Then assume you need to do two hours selling, prep, travel time for every hour paid (ie. you get a third of the hourly rate for each actual hour).

And you charge 10 Es an hour.

So that's 3.34 Es per real hour

1000 / 3.33 = 299 hours. 

lets assume a 6 day week and the odd days holiday that gives us 24 days in a month so you need to work 12 hours 30 minutes nearly every day.

And you will have to work on the black (ie. illegally) 

And that assumes you are a red hot salesman 

And you need to think about health insurance, having enough in reserve to get home when it goes wrong, and the start up costs as you aren't as you say going to hit the ground running


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Try getting a carpenter here, they are as rare as Rocking Horse Dung, all have a waiting list,

Hepa


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Hepa said:


> Try getting a carpenter here, they are as rare as Rocking Horse Dung, all have a waiting list,
> 
> Hepa


Same here. There is no timber used in the construction of houses, but there is a demand for custom-made furniture. If you can do quality stuff and are prepared to do a few jobs on the cheap to get started (word of mouth is the best advertising), you might be fine. It depends where you are though. I would keep away from the Costas, go for well-heeled Spanish clients renovating their fincas.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Same here. There is no timber used in the construction of houses, but there is a demand for custom-made furniture. If you can do quality stuff and are prepared to do a few jobs on the cheap to get started (word of mouth is the best advertising), you might be fine. It depends where you are though. I would keep away from the Costas, go for well-heeled Spanish clients renovating their fincas.


Well heeled anybody would surely do, but I think you might be right about the costas.

Doors and door frames are nearly all wooden here, especially interior ones and all are made on the island. the carpenters we use also fit kitchens, make wooden ceilings, repair roofs any thing where there is wood involved, 

hepa


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Same here. There is no timber used in the construction of houses, but there is a demand for custom-made furniture. If you can do quality stuff and are prepared to do a few jobs on the cheap to get started (word of mouth is the best advertising), you might be fine. It depends where you are though. I would keep away from the Costas, go for well-heeled Spanish clients renovating their fincas.


That's strange - we are only a few miles apart but here timber is used for building houses - upper floor and roof beams for a start. Also, everyone's front door is (by law) custom made from wood (very expensive!!), some windows also. 

There are three carpinterias here in the village and I'll bet there are others in the other villages in the municipality as well.

Up in the Serrania de Ronda the tradition is also for roof boards to be made of chestnut as well.

Here a British carpenter might find some work but I know of one who has been here a very long time who is struggling.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jimenato said:


> That's strange - we are only a few miles apart but here timber is used for building houses - upper floor and roof beams for a start. Also, everyone's front door is (by law) custom made from wood (very expensive!!), some windows also.
> 
> There are three carpinterias here in the village and I'll bet there are others in the other villages in the municipality as well.
> 
> ...


How strange! The front doors here are nearly all metal or wood-effect polyurethane because wood shrinks and expands so much. Some English people up the road had very expensive wooden window frames put in their place when they were doing it up - only five years ago, but the wood is splitting already.

We do have wooden doors inside of course, and built-in wardrobes. Moorish-style wardrobe doors with star-shaped cut-outs are all the rage. So get your jigsaw out Yerpal and practice making pretty holes!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Plenty of struggling trades and craftspeople of all kinds here.
Most Brits I know prefer to use well-established Spanish plumbers, carpenters etc.
Loads of wood and marble in our house but our front door is of some kind of synthetic wood-effect material. 
It has six locks and two bolts......


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Plenty of struggling trades and craftspeople of all kinds here.
> Most Brits I know prefer to use well-established Spanish plumbers, carpenters etc.
> Loads of wood and marble in our house but our front door is of some kind of synthetic wood-effect material.
> It has six locks and two bolts......


Best yerpal adds locksmith to his CV then


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

nigele2 said:


> Best yerpal adds locksmith to his CV then


That is not a bad idea at all.


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## yerpal (Feb 27, 2011)

*wow*

You sound like my accountant.
If I calculated everything to that degree then I would never have had children let alone go self employed.
I appreciate the reply but I work better talking to people and trusting my gut feeling. No guts no glory I suppose.

p.s. 'flamenco land' is a fantastic place to visit, never seen passion like it (on stage anyway)
What I meant was, I have no desire to join the ex pats in the bar cultivating their beer guts reading the Sun newspaper. I like Spain for the sulture it has to offer. A bit more difficult up in the old villages I've found but places like Granada are fantastic
Thanks for the reply




nigele2 said:


> The only thing Flamenco will give you is some good nights out in Flamenco land if you have your beer money
> 
> Let's do a simple business model
> 
> ...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

yerpal said:


> You sound like my accountant.
> If I calculated everything to that degree then I would never have had children let alone go self employed.
> I appreciate the reply but I work better talking to people and trusting my gut feeling. No guts no glory I suppose.
> 
> ...


I live in flamenco-land. We have a contest each summer for _cante jondo _and all the farmers put their best suits on and come into town to compete or listen. Now and again we get a dancer but it´s mainly singing.

It´s not everyone´s cup of tea but if you stop trying to work out what it´s all about and just let it take you over, it´s incredibly powerful and emotional.


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## yerpal (Feb 27, 2011)

*furniture...*

Cheers alca..

I was actually building scenery and props for commercial photographers as well as exhibition stands, small shop refits and yes furniture from my workshop since 1988 so I could easily make custom furniture, storage, etc etc
Sound more positive, thanks

alan:clap2:




Alcalaina said:


> Same here. There is no timber used in the construction of houses, but there is a demand for custom-made furniture. If you can do quality stuff and are prepared to do a few jobs on the cheap to get started (word of mouth is the best advertising), you might be fine. It depends where you are though. I would keep away from the Costas, go for well-heeled Spanish clients renovating their fincas.


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## yerpal (Feb 27, 2011)

Exactly. That is why I would prefer to be down here I really like the singing and dancing and watch as much as i can when at home.
It's usually about men leaving women or just general hard time, bit like the guitar blues but in a polka dot dress.
Like your blog by the way. I enjoy off road riding on mountain bike as well as motorbike and would like to be in striking distance of Morocco for more of the same
Thanks

alan






Alcalaina said:


> I live in flamenco-land. We have a contest each summer for _cante jondo _and all the farmers put their best suits on and come into town to compete or listen. Now and again we get a dancer but it´s mainly singing.
> 
> It´s not everyone´s cup of tea but if you stop trying to work out what it´s all about and just let it take you over, it´s incredibly powerful and emotional.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> I live in flamenco-land. We have a contest each summer for _cante jondo _and all the farmers put their best suits on and come into town to compete or listen. Now and again we get a dancer but it´s mainly singing.
> 
> It´s not everyone´s cup of tea but if you stop trying to work out what it´s all about and just let it take you over, it´s incredibly powerful and emotional.


It doesn't do it for me. I'm a singer (choral and pop) and it all comes over as a bit 'shouty' for me.

They come into our bar every now and then and do an ad hoc gig and I like that. Tomorrow we have two professionals (bloody expensive ones) Apparently they have a good following - I hope so.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

yerpal I know what you mean but I was just trying to balance the "give it a go" attitude and add some realism 

As long as you have your fare home in your pocket then what the heck, give it a go 

Obviously the model can be adjusted and you can make a case for survival but most people here who work in Spain will tell you it is not easy and they work far more hours in Spain than they have or would need to in the UK. And the ones who have failed and run for home we hear little of for obvious reasons. 

Just for info. at the moment in Barcelona they offer carpenters 8 Es an hour, 10 hour day, one month contract - and Barcelona is not having the worst of it. Thats more or less what I paid in Asturias last year for plumber, electrician and plasterer. 

Sadly I believe spain is on a downward spiral that is irreversible without radical change. Although further cuts in benefit will not effect you as you will not be getting any there will I believe be unsavoury changes. Even the dosile spanish will not sit on their culos for much longer with 43.5% youth unemployment and rising.

Others here will tell you spain is just in the same state as the UK and all will be well. They are entitled to there view. I would however like them to meet my Seville family and explain to them why none of 6 potential earners (that's all of them) do not have a job. 

On flamenco I play flamenco guitar and love the stuff. Make sure you get to some of the festivals. Especially the traditional stuff. I'm less keen when it sounds more like jazz or gets too much into 'fusion'. But whatever enjoy


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jimenato said:


> It doesn't do it for me. I'm a singer (choral and pop) and it all comes over as a bit 'shouty' for me.
> 
> They come into our bar every now and then and do an ad hoc gig and I like that. Tomorrow we have two professionals (bloody expensive ones) Apparently they have a good following - I hope so.


It got me one hot night after a few_ finos_ when I was standing at the back of the patio, I closed my eyes and it just sort of happened. The singer was called Arcangel - I thought it was a poncy made-up name but it is really his name.

We have some of El Camarón´s cousins here too, his great-grandparents were blacksmiths here. But they are a bit too shot away to sing more than a few lines.

Hope it goes well tomorrow - give us a bit more notice next time!


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> It got me one hot night after a few_ finos_ when I was standing at the back of the patio, I closed my eyes and it just sort of happened. The singer was called Arcangel - I thought it was a poncy made-up name but it is really his name.
> 
> We have some of El Camarón´s cousins here too, his great-grandparents were blacksmiths here. But they are a bit too shot away to sing more than a few lines.
> 
> Hope it goes well tomorrow - give us a bit more notice next time!


Actually the guy who comes in here 'ad hoc' could pass for Camaron (after a few fino's anyway...).


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Then when you are fed up with Spain, there is always the Canary Islands..............

Hello nigele


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Hepa said:


> Then when you are fed up with Spain, there is always the Canary Islands..............
> 
> Hello nigele


Hola Hepa. Hope you are enjoying your care free non working life on your lovely Island. I was a bit shocked to see even there your unemployment is enormous. But I see the hoards are coming for Easter. They reckon over 8000 through the airport. Impressive in these hard times. All your nice words about paradise are obviously working. 

Enjoy whatever you get up to this evening


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## yerpal (Feb 27, 2011)

*thanks Nigel*

Good call. It is a lot worse here than in the UK I can see that. Is it the same all over Spain? I ask as you obviously spend time on here......
I am here for a month and don't intend to make any rash purchases but I do love the place and envy those who have managed to make it stick

alan






nigele2 said:


> yerpal I know what you mean but I was just trying to balance the "give it a go" attitude and add some realism
> 
> As long as you have your fare home in your pocket then what the heck, give it a go
> 
> ...


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## casaloco (Mar 30, 2011)

Hepa said:


> Try getting a carpenter here, they are as rare as Rocking Horse Dung, all have a waiting list,
> 
> Hepa


Am now wishing my OH was a carpenter and not an engineer, then maybe i'd get my life on an island after all!!!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

I've given the flamenco posts a thread of their own


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> Hola Hepa. Hope you are enjoying your care free non working life on your lovely Island. I was a bit shocked to see even there your unemployment is enormous. But I see the hoards are coming for Easter. They reckon over 8000 through the airport. Impressive in these hard times. All your nice words about paradise are obviously working.
> 
> Enjoy whatever you get up to this evening


The passengers are 8684 but they are the ones arriving and the ones leaving on 120 planes over the Easter period which starts today. We get about six to eight planes daily which are usually eighty seaters.

Regarding unemployment the President of the Islands says that we are the only autonomous region in Spain where unemployment did not rise last month.

Life is good here, especially for the retired, don't worry you will get there, I did, it's great being an old git


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Hepa said:


> Regarding unemployment the President of the Islands says that we are the only autonomous region in Spain where unemployment did not rise last month.


Bravo give the guy a bottle of Cava 

But - there are 121 more people unemployed on El Hierro in comparison with the same month a year ago 



Hepa said:


> Life is good here, especially for the retired, don't worry you will get there, I did, it's great being an old git


all too soon Hepa  But 5 months on the western isles for winter is a real possibility


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> Bravo give the guy a bottle of Cava
> 
> But - there are 121 more people unemployed on El Hierro in comparison with the same month a year ago
> 
> ...


We used to do that. Leaving England when the last of the leaves had fallen and returning when the grass needed cutting in the spring. I quite enjoyed it but properties in two countries became a burden, both financial and otherwise,

H


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Your local rag:

DIARIOELHIERRO.ES, redacción (5/4/2011. 06:16 horas) 

La isla de El Hierro registró un total de 945 personas en situación de desempleo durante el pasado mes de marzo, 121 personas más que en el mismo mes de 2010.




Hepa said:


> We used to do that. Leaving England when the last of the leaves had fallen and returning when the grass needed cutting in the spring. I quite enjoyed it but properties in two countries became a burden, both financial and otherwise,H


Yes it is a problem. Over the next few years I need and want to maintain my UK base. But the weather in Asturias is not really that much different from Hampshire in the winter. So the islands do offer an option (and good diving ) although I wouldn't want to buy there.

Once retired we will then have to make another decision. Life's a b1tch and then you die


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> Your local rag:
> 
> DIARIOELHIERRO.ES, redacción (5/4/2011. 06:16 horas)
> 
> ...


I missed that, generally read the said rag every day.

That makes registered unemployed on the island under 9%

Also the population of the island has increased, many are returning from Venezuela, thanks to the policies of Hugo

Many who live here do not buy, however we purchased many years ago,

Hepa


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Hepa said:


> That makes registered unemployed on the island under 9%


Didn't know that the island had child labour (including babies) and worked the peasants in the fields till they dropped  

I may have to give it a miss  

It is in fact not so bad on Gomera and El Hierro as mainland Spain but that in part is due to the nomadic instinct of a very small population. Possibly around 14%


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