# and no harassment



## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sdov_NwsM-E


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

A Man Dresses As A Woman To Experience Cairo's Street Harassment


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> A Man Dresses As A Woman To Experience Cairo's Street Harassment


sickening and yet the powers that be keep ignoring the issue.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

aykalam said:


> sickening and yet the powers that be keep ignoring the issue.





not ignoring, denying the extent of the problem. 


Friend has just returned from a weekend in Istabul where she tells me the streets were full of tourists, clean streets, no hassle, and beer to drink. 

Without seeming to jump on this bandwagon Pat will confirm that I told her Thursday night that I had been offer 25LE to go with a man, well it was my friend and I and the price was 50LE for the two of us.. and this was us just walking down road 9 in Maadi,


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## mamasue (Oct 7, 2008)

I had my ass grabbed in Hurghada by a man on a bike.....cowardly... he didn't even slow down long enough for me to slap him.....
I was 55 years old at the time....no woman's safe from these idiots who think it's their god-given right to do whatever they want....
Ok in my case it was a minor violation and I'm old enough not to care....but seriously, would it be a different set of rules if I walked around Hurghada grabbing men's nuts at random!!!???


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

mamasue said:


> I had my ass grabbed in Hurghada by a man on a bike.....cowardly... he didn't even slow down long enough for me to slap him.....
> I was 55 years old at the time....no woman's safe from these idiots who think it's their god-given right to do whatever they want....
> Ok in my case it was a minor violation and I'm old enough not to care....but seriously, would it be a different set of rules if I walked around Hurghada grabbing men's nuts at random!!!???




My friend and I were going to the new chocolate shop when we were propositioned but have to admit we laughed when on being told the price was 45LE we realised that we couldn't even get the price of a chocolate bar lol


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## hurghadapat (Mar 26, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> not ignoring, denying the extent of the problem.
> 
> 
> Friend has just returned from a weekend in Istabul where she tells me the streets were full of tourists, clean streets, no hassle, and beer to drink.
> ...


One of the best holidays i ever had was in Malaysia which also has a lot of muslims but no hassle what so ever and all prices set by the government so no being ripped off and also the men so respectful of women so this sexual harassement has got to be an Egyptian thing for whatever reason.


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## Wulfstryde (Jan 16, 2012)

It's pathetic really. I've seen kids who seemed no older than 11 or 12 reach for a woman's behind. You really wonder what these kids learn at home. Would they stand for the same if someone did this to any of the women in their household?


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

Wulfstryde said:


> You really wonder what these kids learn at home. Would they stand for the same if someone did this to any of the women in their household?


Nothing, they learn absolutely nothing at home (or elsewhere) that resembles anything close to respect for others, particularly women, who are seen as little more than 'property' by their own families.


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

A "heavily opinionated" blog on harassment of female tourists in Egypt:

http://themostalive.com/travel-in-egypt-go-****-yourself/


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## hurghadapat (Mar 26, 2010)

aykalam said:


> A "heavily opinionated" blog on harassment of female tourists in Egypt:
> 
> http://themostalive.com/travel-in-egypt-go-****-yourself/


I read that blog and very true to life it is....but decided not to post on here because of the language used


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

on the other hand, arent women fuelling this kind of sick behaviour by covering every bit of their skin? ... like female bodies are so precious that tentation must be contained by taking them out of sight? 

Perhaps if all women uncovered their hair and dressed in a natural way ( not particularly provocative, just nAtural), men would see legs and arms and hair as something as normal as humAn anatomy and stop behaving like wild rabbits on viagra.


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## hurghadapat (Mar 26, 2010)

Sonrisa said:


> on the other hand, arent women fuelling this kind of sick behaviour by covering every bit of their skin? ... like female bodies are so precious that tentation must be contained by taking them out of sight?
> 
> Perhaps if all women uncovered their hair and dressed in a natural way ( not particularly provocative, just nAtural), men would see legs and arms and hair as something as normal as humAn anatomy and stop behaving like wild rabbits on viagra.


Lol....no win situation for women i think....damned if they do and damned if they don't


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

hurghadapat said:


> Lol....no win situation for women i think....damned if they do and damned if they don't


Yes but think gulf/middle east countries back in th 80's and 90's. Was sexual harrasment endemic like it is now? Women dressed in a much liberal way back then, looking at the oictures and rarely covered their hair.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

CAIRO: Egyptian women are livid after an advisor to President Mohamed Morsi said that statistics on sexual harassment and sexual violence in the country are “exaggerated.” Omaima Kamel, on the Board for Women’s Affairs, said on Wednesday that the Interior Ministry should “provide realistic numbers” on violence against women in the country.

She argued that the ministry was the “only competent authority to monitor violations that occur in the streets,” during a meeting convened within the presidential initiative to “support rights and freedoms of Egyptian women.”

But women’s rights activists are fighting back, telling Bikyanews.com that Kamel lives “in another world.” Sara, a 35-year-old producer and activist, said that “the ministry is complicit in the ongoing sexual violence and attacks against women so how could a so-called ‘advisor’ want them to deal with giving real statistics?”

She added that it was “the most ignorant thing we’ve heard in Egypt in a while and we’ve heard a lot.”


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

hurghadapat said:


> I read that blog and very true to life it is....but decided not to post on here because of the language used


apologies! I was in two minds about posting it too...


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

Sonrisa said:


> on the other hand, arent women fuelling this kind of sick behaviour by covering every bit of their skin? ... like female bodies are so precious that tentation must be contained by taking them out of sight?
> 
> Perhaps if all women uncovered their hair and dressed in a natural way ( not particularly provocative, just nAtural), men would see legs and arms and hair as something as normal as humAn anatomy and stop behaving like wild rabbits on viagra.


I don't think there's a shortage of skin on display in places like Sharm, and yet women get harassed there too. 

*It's not you, it's them*


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

I posted the above blog on twitter today, an Egyptian guy thought I was a tourist and told me:

these aren't Egyptian people, we Egyptians aren't like that...we welcome our visitors, don't take this impression


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

aykalam said:


> I posted the above blog on twitter today, an Egyptian guy thought I was a tourist and told me:
> 
> these aren't Egyptian people, we Egyptians aren't like that...we welcome our visitors, don't take this impression




Did you ask who they are? 

It will be foreign hands that are doing the groping


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> Did you ask who they are?
> 
> It will be foreign hands that are doing the groping


no need 

He also mentioned that the incident described in the blog is like in other countries discrimination toward Arabs. 

denial is not just a river in Egypt


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

aykalam said:


> I don't think there's a shortage of skin on display in places like Sharm, and yet women get harassed there too.
> 
> *It's not you, it's them*


Im not excusing the harrassers behaviour, but wearing say a knee length skirt anD short sleeved tshirt will draw very very little attention in Sharm, becuase most there are used to seeing women. Now try wearing that outfit in, say, Giza. You get my point. 
Maybe once men start seeing women again, they will eventually learn to respect them. its a long way, but maybe s first step.


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## aykalam (Apr 12, 2010)

Sonrisa said:


> Im not excusing the harrassers behaviour, but wearing say a knee length skirt anD short sleeved tshirt will draw very very little attention in Sharm, becuase most there are used to seeing women. Now try wearing that outfit in, say, Giza. You get my point.
> Maybe once men start seeing women again, they will eventually learn to respect them. its a long way, but maybe s first step.


but you still get harassed in Sharm! unless you are obviously accompanied by your husband/father/etc. you get harassed *everywhere* in Egypt, no matter what you wear. 

IMO, the (main) cause of harassment is the lack or respect towards women, regardless of what they wear. I believe this is part of a much larger issue of moral bankruptcy in Egypt, which started decades ago. Parents -and society- do not teach their children ethics, no values, which in a male dominated society means women get treated like xxxx.


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## txlstewart (Jun 20, 2010)

Even women who are fully covered and veiled are harassed. Method of dress just seems to be an excuse. It could just as easily be, "She stole the air I meant to breathe, so I was compelled to grope her in hopes of reclaiming what is rightfully mine!"


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

aykalam said:


> no need
> 
> He also mentioned that the incident described in the blog is like in other countries discrimination toward Arabs.
> 
> denial is not just a river in Egypt





it drives me crazy this discrimination card.. I get it pulled on me all the time


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

txlstewart said:


> Even women who are fully covered and veiled are harassed. Method of dress just seems to be an excuse. It could just as easily be, "She stole the air I meant to breathe, so I was compelled to grope her in hopes of reclaiming what is rightfully mine!"


Yes I know women that are covered get harrased just as much! That wasnt the point...
But it is undeniable that women have been covering themselves more and more during the last decade or so, and I wonder if that could be more a cause than a consequence of sexual harrassment... Maybe by covering themselves, they stop being human on the eyes of men and women become mere objects.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Maybe they see covered women as a challenge, having lascivious thoughts of what might be under all the cloth


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

....Probably. But I am inclined to think that in all societies, change, for better or for worse, comes from women and their attitude...after all they are the one who insitill values into their offsprings.

And women insisting in covering theirselves from head to toe sends a very poor signal to their community, and thus indirectly causing this sick behaviour...

This is and extract from a well balanced recent BBC article...

"Egyptians will tell you that women now are dressing far more conservatively than they did just a few years back.

That is certainly no guarantee that they will be left alone. Many of those reporting harassment wear headscarves or even the niqab, which covers the face.

But there are some young women who are reacting against the cultural flow, by removing their veils.

"I originally wore the veil to fit in. All my classmates wore it," 18-year-old Nesma Hamoda says.

"But now with the Muslim Brotherhood, I see women are treated like objects instead of actual human beings and I don't want to be a part of it, or a part of the 'covering it up' culture."

However, Ms Hamoda says that in the current social climate, it will not be easy, and that even friends of hers have criticised her for suggesting that she remove her headscarf"

BBC News - Egypt minister's remarks fuel sexual harassment debate


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Yes very true about moving the veil.. I know two women who have removed in the past few months although not Egyptians they are married to Egyptians.

An Egyptian male friend went to London for the first time and he told me that when he was on the tube he couldn't stop looking at the women sitting in shorts and small tee shirts. I asked him when he stopped looking he replied after about three days I didn't bother.. seen one seen them all


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