# Cedulas and Foreigners.



## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Question to the brains trust.

My better half owns the land here and I lease that from him, 25 + 25. I own all the buildings, improvements and hold the right in the lease to add more buildings or take them away. Apparently I need a Cedula from my Barangay for building and fence clearance before submitting all the plans and docs to our local municipal office.
The barangay are not sure if the Cedula can be issued in my name as I am not a Philippine national even though the Municipal rates are in my name and my name is in the title as the person that holds an encumbrance on the property.

Any thoughts smarter than local thinking?

Cheers, Steve.


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## magsasaja (Jan 31, 2014)

The barangay can issue a Cedula in your name as it has nothing to do with nationality. It is like a resident tax. Years ago that’s what you would get if applying for nbi clearance etc. It has been renamed over the years and is now called a Barangay clearance certificate. Would a Barangay certificate not suffice? If not they can issue you a Cedula.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Like every thing, convoluted.
The Barangay don't give Cedulas here now, sir you have to go to the municipal to get that then come back and we can issue the Barangay clearance, go figure.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

@bigpearl Good other know, I had no idea about your question,
but a GOOD thing with Phils is far behind is you CAN lease by not being married


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## Tiz (Jan 23, 2016)

I get a Cedula every year. Its noted on my tax return.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

As time goes on I learn more, as we do here. So apparently I need the Cedula first then apply for the Barangay clearance second,,,,,, but Ben went to the Barangay office again and got the clearances P 400 for buildings and P350 for fencing without the Cedula, that was Tuesday, yesterday Ben went to the local Municipal to get the Cedula,,,,,,, All government offices and schools are closed due to typhoon,,,,,, Signal 1? Close everything? We do love our days off in the Philippines.

Any way we are progressing slowly, just hope the draftsman now completes the materials costings for the municipal fees in a timely manner, only took 2 months to get the drawings for my approval and only time will tell.
Just as well I'm retired and no great hurry. It's only been 9 or 10 months waiting for the roofing company to come back and replace the ridge capping that they screwed up, the material is here for 6 months but no workers.
Maybe I'll be in an old age home or dead before the first block is laid?

Sorry for the rant.

Cheers, Steve.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

So how is your move going Lunkan? When are you coming here to take control and face the daily frustrations? As we say more fun in the Philippines.

Cheers, Steve.








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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

The thinking here? The stupidity? The ignorance?
Yesterday I signed a letter/approval/declaration for the holder to actuate/accomplish my paperwork/approval for a cedula and related paperwork to accomplish building permits,,,,,,, Ben said to me 20 minutes ago, can you sign this..... What's that for I asked and he said that this is the new paperwork Because what you signed was for yesterday and the dates are wrong now because they were closed. I got grumpy.
Told him to present them with yesterdays signed letter and see what they say.
No it has to be every day or they won't accept,,,,,, A little like come back in 45 years when my lease runs out on the land you own?
Come on mate, get real. Sometimes to educate takes a long time because they don't listen or pretend to listen and understand. To Lunkan, I hear and feel your ongoing frustrations in an arcade system, you have done well to persevere and be patient to accomplish your goals.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

bigpearl said:


> So how is your move going Lunkan? When are you coming here to take control and face the daily frustrations? As we say more fun in the Philippines.


 If I dont find a not stupid doctor so I get needed surgery, probably never. (There is a chance it can be solved by rehab, but its microscopic. Improve a bit but then break when have to do some short travel to e g doctor, dentist.)
BUT I am taking controll anyway  
Its much harder though by others have to be "my eyes". Not being there its very hard to see such as space needed and improvement possibilities how to make production processes very effective for low costs =My speciality. E g now I need to try to "draw" the manufactory production stations in my head and on paper at as small space as possible to afford to make the building proper qiuality. (Most steps of the production need special environment, which make the building more expensice per sqmeter.) 

These tribe guys, I am working with, are much better than almost all malay Filipinos at following instructions and ask when they dont underrstand. And adnmit when they did something wrong!!!  If I wouldnt have found them - or more correct an American had found them and was very satisfied with jobs they done for him - otherwice I wouldnt have started the businesses. They havent made any much wrong anyway , just small things..

((E g yesterday I got photos send at the production equipment they have almost ready made for me, built from scratch from material we have found available at the island.. Its modified to try to improve quality such type of production equipment can make normaly. They had missunderstood ONE thing among the a lot of things I had told them  I had just shown them videos and photos of partly "wrong" built other ones and said such as:
-Make a frame first using the size of the raw material roll optimal and then make the size of the holder section after the size of the frames, and then make the entrance section suiting the size of the holder section... Do the holder section as at this video except make the top as at this photo and the sides as at this one... And make this big part upside down compared to how its done at this photo... 
Much such so not odd they missunderstood ONE thing, so it was MY fault by overvelming them with "except this-es"  and not making them a blueprint. (But I didnt because there were sequental steps depending of sizes of material available there. IF this "prototype" will manage to make top quality then we will make a bunch to ourself to get higher production capacity. Perhaps we even end up as a such equipment manyfactory instead 
((The only difference from ment to be is they connected at the shorter side of the holderr section instead of the longer side, which I believe will make it a bit less effective but no big difference by its not far from rectangular.))
But its the "prototype" for testing anyway where some parts will be moved until we reach the highest productivity Left to see if it can make same top quality as big company competitors make with a much more expensive production method. 
The test is some delayed by we have ordered more sofisticated quality messure equipmenrt through internet a while ago, but havent arrived still so I suspect they order them from China inspite of they said they had in stock  But I am inventive so got to think of we can messure the quality ok for a test by messure changes in weight at different steps of the process - but then there werent any such common - in western countries - kitchen weight scale for sale in whole municipaly.  Such is ordered at internet too but not arrived yet neither. But "we" will go to province capital city soon anyway to look at an used machinery for sale cheap, so I hope they have such weight scale there


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## Ekspat (5 mo ago)

bigpearl said:


> My better half owns the land here and I lease that from him, 25 + 25. I own all the buildings


When the lease expires, what happens to your ownership in the buildings?

Or to put another way, can you own or 'own' the buildings without ever getting a lease?


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Ekspat said:


> When the lease expires, what happens to your ownership in the buildings?


 The owner of of improvements at leased land have right to put it back to how it was before the lease started and I believe the land owner have right to demand that, but I suppouse land owners prefer to get an expensive building for free 

25 + 25 is just building owner's max "demand rights". 
Lease deals can be renewed after 50 years too, BUT then its a NEW negotiation from scratch, so its risk the land owner demand much more - specialy if he think of legaly its his buildings  if the lease has expired. 

(But in Bigpearl's case I suppouse he is dead by very old age then  and plan to give it anyway to his partner.)



Ekspat said:


> Or to put another way, can you own or 'own' the buildings without ever getting a lease?


 No. 

Except in mind  and if the land owner think so too. No legal protection if no lease contract if it become a conflict. Even if the land owner agree NOW without contract, better have a contact because much can happen in 50 years, e g inheritance or land owner sell it. With contract the lease have to be followed by the new owner too. 
EXCEPT there is a SQUATTER RIGHTS law 🤣 if have lived long time enough at a land WITHOUT any lease. NO squatter rights if having lease. But I doubt that law is valid for foreigners  
(We thought of buying a big land, but we skipped it by there were 5 squatter families living and using some of it, and we neither wanted them there if we bought it, nor wanted to push away these poor families.)


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## Ekspat (5 mo ago)

bigpearl said:


> I own all the buildings


So more accurately, this would be 'I temporarily "own" all the buildings'



Lunkan said:


> there is a SQUATTER RIGHTS law 🤣 if have lived long enough at a land WITHOUT any lease. NO squatter rights if having lease. But I doubt that law is valid for foreigners


RA 7279, yea it only applies to "homeless citizens". If not I'm sure we would have seen that come up in the many disputes between the wife-land owner and the husband who paid for it. Unlike with bigpearl or any non-family with a land lease, the husband doesn't even have that temporary protection.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

That's one way of looking at it Eks, I consider it more for protection of my rights, ie I can also bulldoze all the improvements here legally if there is ever any disputes arising. Call it spite or whatever but I have made the owner of the land aware of this.
It gives me some rights but in essence you are correct but in 10 or 30 years I'll be dead and the property will be sold and divvied up as per my will,,,,,,,, hopefully. Who can ever tell here.

Also in 45 years when the lease expires the owner will be 76 if he lives that long, they all seem to drop off at 60 to 70 here but in all honesty? It won't be my problem then.
In the mean time it's very cheap rent for living absolute beachfront in a very quiet area.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Back on topic. 
Ben went and got my Cedula the other day, 18 pesos? No problems with municipal but an interesting system gaining some things from the Barangay office but most from the municipal, anyway, done.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Ekspat said:


> RA 7279, yea it only applies to "homeless citizens".


 Well. They arent realy homeless by if they have been squatter long time enough to get squatter rights, then they have LIVED there enough many YEARS.
(At the land we looked at, the squatters had lived there over 25 years  in their huts, similar to poor land owners have.)

In some cities squatters seem to have forgot  they dont even have lease, because some have built rather nice STONE houses! But in Puerto Prinsesa it seem the municipaly will give them the land and make lots of that part, suiting location of the houses. 
In other cities they have offered squatters to get land for FREE ELSEWHERE if they agree to move. As e g in Sogod (?) and sure CDO. In CDO it was because that part get serious flooded. In Sogod I believe the officials wanted that for something else.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Squatters? Perhaps a new topic Lunkan, your turn for a newbie and there is plenty already on the subject (squatters) here and other sites. My topic was about Cedula's and foreigners, not squatters nor their rights. Time to stop the railroading and create the topics that are relevant to you.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

Sorry  (I answered something someone wrote and the squatter exception made it compleete.)


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

I am also guilty Lunkan but try not as best I can.

Cheers, Steve.


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## magsasaja (Jan 31, 2014)

bigpearl said:


> Back on topic.
> Ben went and got my Cedula the other day, 18 pesos? No problems with municipal but an interesting system gaining some things from the Barangay office but most from the municipal, anyway, done.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


I just asked my bookkeeper and apparently i got a cedula earlier this year and the cost was 60 pesos. I was robbed! 
Also my daughters business which i run gets a cedula every year and the cost was 500 pesos this year. 
Apparently cedula fees vary from one municipality to the next.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

magsasaja said:


> I just asked my bookkeeper and apparently i got a cedula earlier this year and the cost was 60 pesos. I was robbed!
> Also my daughters business which i run gets a cedula every year and the cost was 500 pesos this year.
> Apparently cedula fees vary from one municipality to the next.


 Was it the baranggay part of the business permit? 
If so it seem some related to expected income.


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## Tiz (Jan 23, 2016)

magsasaja said:


> the cost was 60 pesos. I was robbed!


For me here in BGC, Basic Community Tax is PHP 5, plus PHP 1 for every PHP 1,000 of my salary.
So quite a lot more than 60 pesos...


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## magsasaja (Jan 31, 2014)

Lunkan said:


> Was it the baranggay part of the business permit?
> If so it seem some related to expected income.


No it was municipal. I sign on my daughters behalf, as she resides in Australia. 
I don't have a large salary!


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

magsasaja said:


> No it was municipal. I sign on my daughters behalf, as she resides in Australia.
> I don't have a large salary!


 So the municaply part of a BUSINESS permit ( ?) not a BUILDING permit for e g a fence. Dont you need such from baranggay too? 
Your municipaly seem nice, they charged you LESS than they charged us when we HAVENT started earning yet - by we wait for the 6th permit still after a year  
But no big money anyway.


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## magsasaja (Jan 31, 2014)

Lunkan said:


> So the municaply part of a BUSINESS permit ( ?) not a BUILDING permit for e g a fence. Dont you need such from baranggay too?
> Your municipaly seem nice, they charged you LESS than they charged us when we HAVENT started earning yet - by we wait for the 6th permit still after a year
> But no big money anyway.


For the cedula? My daughters was 500 pesos but that is not a business permit.
A barangay permit and municipal cedula are part of the yearly business permit renewal.
The biggest cost this year was the fire inspection, as they decided that the fuses boxes needed to be changed in the sweat shop.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

And the plot thickens. Meeting with the draftsman yesterday with all the final (we thought) paperwork and signatures as per the checklists we got from the Municipal revealed a new requirement, apparently now we are required to get an attorney to draw up an agreement for the fence on the boundary to be signed by us and the land owner next door. I asked the draftsman why and that's not on the municipal requirements, this is new sir Steve, your check list is a few months old.

I wonder and probably think negatively as the Mayor tried to buy this property some months ago through an agent and was declined and now he and his wife ignore us. From Tsismis he has racked up 5 to 6 properties and my thoughts are "beach resort" with his mansion overlooking it all. I had this lot surveyed a couple of years ago and the Mayor had his lot surveyed 6 or 8 months ago and I asked him if all was ok (when he was still amenable to us plebians) to which he replied that it was all within a couple of inches on our boundary but he gained 12 inches on the next boundary as the people built their fence in the wrong place, I have recently heard that he also purchased that lot and abandoned house.

I will ask him next Friday if he has any problems with our buildings and fence permits before wasting money on an attorney, if no then I will have to go to the Barangay for a resolution. God knows where that will lead.
Sorry for the rant. As for my 18 peso Cedula? I don't have any business dealings nor income here so no taxes etc.

Cheers, Steve.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Forgot to add that they also require a zoning certificate (another new one) so an engineer can in inspect the property, what next?

Cheers, Steve.


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## magsasaja (Jan 31, 2014)

bigpearl said:


> And the plot thickens. Meeting with the draftsman yesterday with all the final (we thought) paperwork and signatures as per the checklists we got from the Municipal revealed a new requirement, apparently now we are required to get an attorney to draw up an agreement for the fence on the boundary to be signed by us and the land owner next door. I asked the draftsman why and that's not on the municipal requirements, this is new sir Steve, your check list is a few months old.
> 
> I wonder and probably think negatively as the Mayor tried to buy this property some months ago through an agent and was declined and now he and his wife ignore us. From Tsismis he has racked up 5 to 6 properties and my thoughts are "beach resort" with his mansion overlooking it all. I had this lot surveyed a couple of years ago and the Mayor had his lot surveyed 6 or 8 months ago and I asked him if all was ok (when he was still amenable to us plebians) to which he replied that it was all within a couple of inches on our boundary but he gained 12 inches on the next boundary as the people built their fence in the wrong place, I have recently heard that he also purchased that lot and abandoned house.
> 
> ...


What a palaver! 
Sounds like the Mayor is being awkward. Personally i wouldn't even bother dealing with the barangay, as they will agree with whatever has been decided by the municipal. Drawing up a agreement wont cost a fortune, so i would take that route and play there silly little games meantime. Yes i know others are building walls without that permit but better to be safe than sorry.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Palaver yes but important from my perspective and simply sharing. The more years I am here the less it bothers me and try to go with the flow and let the [email protected] go, simply deal with it as I have learnt we can't change the system here.
Barangay is the last resort and I'm sure they will side with my neighbour as he seems to have local gatherings and gives out food and gifts to 40 or 50 of the poor locals 2 or 3 times now in less than a year. A true politician it seems.

Time will tell and we will see, keep you posted but I'm sure all will be fine.

Cheers, Steve.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Well that was relatively easy, went and chatted to the mayor on Friday mid morning and all cordial but,,,,,, when I showed him what we were doing he complained that according to his recent surveyors plans that our boundary is in the wrong place by half a metre,,,,, in his favor, not sure where that came from but told him that I had a surveyor check and confirm my boundaries some years ago and would he like to see the official draft as his claim would make all the beach front neighbours properties incorrect,,,,,, the timely arrival of his wife/Lady into the conversation, no, all is ok go ahead and build.

Ben went quickly to the attorney to draw up the papers, I presented them to the mayor in the afternoon and turns out we had to correct the document as the property is owned by his wife/lady (I say that because she doesn't hold his surname) done and signed by her and one wonders who actually is pulling the strings because he stopped talking rubbish when she took control. Anyway we are getting there slowly slowly.
Only one more doc, Monday hopefully Zoning Certificate,,,,,, lol, until the next requirement.

Cheers, Steve.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Obtaining a Police Clearance requires a Cedula and so I thought I'd heard this term before from Bigpearl and so? This must be some sort of basic Municipality tax? It wasn't much I think 40 pesos.

The only negative I ran across getting my wife the police clearance was the Municipality and the Police station didn't have change and so it wasn't a big loss but it all adds up.

Definition of cedula
1 : *any of various official documents or certificates in Spain, Latin America, or the Philippines*: such as. a : a permit or order issued by the government. b : a personal registration tax certificate in the Philippines.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

No police clearance/involvement it was all finally done with the Barangay (750 pesos for fence and buildings) 18 pesos to the municipal for cedula.
Let's see what happens next.

Cheers, Steve.


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## sirpo (4 mo ago)

bigpearl said:


> And the plot thickens. Meeting with the draftsman yesterday with all the final (we thought) paperwork and signatures as per the checklists we got from the Municipal revealed a new requirement, apparently now we are required to get an attorney to draw up an agreement for the fence on the boundary to be signed by us and the land owner next door. I asked the draftsman why and that's not on the municipal requirements, this is new sir Steve, your check list is a few months old.
> 
> I wonder and probably think negatively as the Mayor tried to buy this property some months ago through an agent and was declined and now he and his wife ignore us. From Tsismis he has racked up 5 to 6 properties and my thoughts are "beach resort" with his mansion overlooking it all. I had this lot surveyed a couple of years ago and the Mayor had his lot surveyed 6 or 8 months ago and I asked him if all was ok (when he was still amenable to us plebians) to which he replied that it was all within a couple of inches on our boundary but he gained 12 inches on the next boundary as the people built their fence in the wrong place, I have recently heard that he also purchased that lot and abandoned house.
> 
> ...


Fence what Stinking Fence ? Ground floor windows and door wired 220 V sign posted BALABATA ECT worked for me last 15 years Let the 2 next door neighbors fence your property


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## sirpo (4 mo ago)

bigpearl said:


> Well that was relatively easy, went and chatted to the mayor on Friday mid morning and all cordial but,,,,,, when I showed him what we were doing he complained that according to his recent surveyors plans that our boundary is in the wrong place by half a metre,,,,, in his favor, not sure where that came from but told him that I had a surveyor check and confirm my boundaries some years ago and would he like to see the official draft as his claim would make all the beach front neighbours properties incorrect,,,,,, the timely arrival of his wife/Lady into the conversation, no, all is ok go ahead and build.
> 
> Ben went quickly to the attorney to draw up the papers, I presented them to the mayor in the afternoon and turns out we had to correct the document as the property is owned by his wife/lady (I say that because she doesn't hold his surname) done and signed by her and one wonders who actually is pulling the strings because he stopped talking rubbish when she took control. Anyway we are getting there slowly slowly.
> Only one more doc, Monday hopefully Zoning Certificate,,,,,, lol, until the next requirement.
> ...


My wife has a notarized survey of the land purchased in our name 2005 F em where they breath


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## Ekspat (5 mo ago)

sirpo said:


> My wife has a notarized survey of the land purchased in our name


*her


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

sirpo said:


> Fence what Stinking Fence ? Ground floor windows and door wired 220 V sign posted BALABATA ECT worked for me last 15 years Let the 2 next door neighbors fence your property


Firstly welcome to the forum. Secondly, I doubt very much that the local Barangay or Municipal will build a 30 meter long and 2.4 to 2.7 meters high wall on the road with a stainless steel automatic gate. Third, one neighbour constructed a beautiful fence on my southern boundary some 12 years ago 60 something meters in length and on my northern boundary will be buildings (fire rated) as part of the fence for a garage and pump and generator house, some 30 meters long and the mayor has agreed to build the remaining 30 odd meters of fencing.

Finally, each to their own and for their circumstances and wishes and as you say? "Opinions are like noses, everyone has one" but OMO? Some peoples noses are longer than others.

Cheers, Steve.


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