# ANTS- rejection letter



## saffron_gin

Hello Guys,

After successfully navigating every step along the way of moving to France, I seem to have finally arrived at a rejection. ANTS has sent me an email saying 

Dans le cadre de votre demande en ligne de permis de conduire n°__, certaines pièces justificatives fournies sont incorrectes ou manquantes.
Veuillez-vous connecter à votre compte, sur le site ANTS afin de consulter les causes de rejet et effectuer les modifications indiquées.
Cordialement,
Le service instructeur

I connected into the ANTS account, but couldn't find anywhere the explicatory information...it seems to me the same as before....Any idea where I could find the information regarding what is missing or the 'causes of rejection' on the ANTS account?

TIA


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## saffron_gin

OK...strangely enough, clicking the same link as before, now has taken me to a new page, and apparently they want the new TDS (which obviously I couldn't given them before)...and the document from the US indicating the date of DL first obtained....now this is something I couldn't find how to do anywhere...

My first license was obtained in a MW state in 96 while in school there...but moved out pretty much right after and they have said they have no way of locating it without the DL number...and it would have been in my maiden name...

The current one from CO and the last 2 were from CA...while I have copies of the last 3 DLs I am not able to get a Driver's history report from either state that includes original license issue date...I went through ensuring all that before applying ...and I am not sure what more I could possibly do to get a document with a first issue date...

Any suggestions would be most welcome.

Thanks.


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## Poloss

Hi, the problem with ANTS is that their decisions are irrevocable and there's no appeal possible.
A couple of years back, I spent 20 minutes on the phone with the ANTS mediator who confirmed that I was right and ANTS were wrong to reject my claim however the only way to try and win was to put my case to my local tribunal administratif.
I downloaded the TA formula and decided it was much less hassle to pay for another controle technique ...
My problem concerned a carte grise mutation not a driving license


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## 1790260

Treat the following as, um, I dunno, pinch of salt stuff...

Sometimes (and I'll obviously deny ever saying this!) you need to make stuff up. Only for, how can I say?, inconsequential stuff. We've probably all done it at some time or another, and entered a 'there or there abouts' date or amount when submitting something.

I had a similar issue when changing my UK licence for a French one with the 'when did you get your licence?' bit. My UK licence wasn't my first one. I got my licence elsewhere and I'll be darned if I remember the date I passed my test. So I always use the date I got my UK licence. Okay, it knocks 5 years off my experience but it is at least verifiable. But, as I suggest, it's not really of significance here. It's just a date on a form.

For car insurance though, it might be a different matter. The date you got your licence does count and determines the premium. Just for the record, I use my UK licence date there too, because it's verifiable and it would make no difference anyway, I have near 20 years experience on a UK licence.

Speaking of car insurance (and, sorry, I digress) I've had some discussions with agents over the difference in meaning between _retraité_ and _inactif. _There is a difference and impacts on the premium ('retired', in France, is when you get your pension - there isn't an 'early retired ' ) Premiums for the retired tend to be cheaper. I know of an insurance agent that gives out advice (to this day) that it makes no difference and will offer cheaper policies on the basis that an 'early retired' (i.e. inactif) person is the same thing as retired. My local agent disagrees profoundly. With an insurance contract, I want everything to be correct (no wiggle outs)

With ANTS, I kinda like it. Yes sure, it's clunky and has a somewhat labyrinthial feel to it, but it sorta works in the end, if you let in slowly grind through its gears. It's a system designed by a _fonctionnaire_ / civil servant rather than a systems analyst!


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## BackinFrance

SG, you almost certainly need to prepare for having to take the French driving test and the sooner the better, even though it is a bitter pill to have to swallow.

Good luck.


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## rynd2it

BackinFrance said:


> SG, you almost certainly need to prepare for having to take the French driving test and the sooner the better, even though it is a bitter pill to have to swallow.
> 
> Good luck.


Absolute nonsense, do as has been suggested and come up with a date that is somewhere reasonable. My UK licence indicated I got my first licence in 1976 - I actually got it in 1964 but as the DVLA destroyed physical records after putting everything on computer there was no way of documenting the actual start date.

If you need more help, look up the Facebook group :



https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=applying%20for%20a%20french%20driving%20license



You'll get all the help you need after you join, which may take a while as the admin archives the group most weekends


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## BackinFrance

A UK licence though, not the same thing at all because ANTS is aware that not all US licenses are exchangeable in France and that they are exchangeable in US states that have exchanges agreements.


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## rynd2it

BackinFrance said:


> A UK licence though, not the same thing at all because ANTS is aware that not all US licenses are exchangeable in France and that they are exchangeable in US states that have exchanges agreements.


True, but it appears the OP does have an exchangeable license so all that is in question is the start date. Create one


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## Bevdeforges

To be blunt about it, for a US person to "prove" when they got their first license is pretty much impossible. There is no central data base of driving licenses from all the states, and I doubt most states back there maintain any record of licenses issued once they are not being renewed (generally every 4 years or so). Give them a good faith estimate of when you got your first driving license wherever - at least for the insurance purposes - and they do need some evidence of when you got your license in the state for which you are exchanging a license (to make sure that you didn't just drive across the border and take your license test in the next state over because it was an exchangeable license). But "proof" of either is not available. For the residence question, proof of residence in the "exchangeable" state for as far back as you can manage is about the best anyone can do.


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## saffron_gin

Thanks all for responding...

I DID indicate my original issue date as AUG 96...which I am not entirely sure, but is as close to what I reckon it to be...

But I need to provide them some official document that says original issue date apparently...

I know some states like CT which I know for sure, includes the first issue date in their Driver's History report...but not CO or CA, both states from which I have obtained driver's history report from...

I have submitted BOTH those reports and certified translations....so the verifiable and certified Driving History goes back 10 years....but there is no way for me give them a piece of paper from the US that says Original First Issue Date of License...

The FB group is near impossible for me to get into as FB doesn't let me into my account, and I am all out of making new email account as I don't want to give my tel number, which seems to be required now to make new email accounts...


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## rynd2it

saffron_gin said:


> Thanks all for responding...
> 
> I DID indicate my original issue date as AUG 96...which I am not entirely sure, but is as close to what I reckon it to be...
> 
> But I need to provide them some official document that says original issue date apparently...
> 
> I know some states like CT which I know for sure, includes the first issue date in their Driver's History report...but not CO or CA, both states from which I have obtained driver's history report from...
> 
> I have submitted BOTH those reports and certified translations....so the verifiable and certified Driving History goes back 10 years....but there is no way for me give them a piece of paper from the US that says Original First Issue Date of License...
> 
> The FB group is near impossible for me to get into as FB doesn't let me into my account, and I am all out of making new email account as I don't want to give my tel number, which seems to be required now to make new email accounts...


Invent a phone number, FB doesn't use it


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## saffron_gin

Also, I am currently overseas, and not likely returning before the new year...(family stuff)...

Any idea how long ANTS will keep my application status open, so I can plan accordingly?


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## saffron_gin

rynd2it said:


> Invent a phone number, FB doesn't use it


No google will for verifying the new email account though...


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## jweihl

Hi V,
Have you tried an "Attestation d'Honneur"? In the part where they wanted documentation of the date I first took my exam (such documentation doesn't exist any more, if it ever did), I filled out and signed such an attestation and it appears they accepted it, as my license came in the mail on Monday. I'll email you the document that I used in case you want to copy it.

Cheers,
Jeff


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## rynd2it

Don't want to pry but why won't FB let you in? However, to use the FB group you do need to be in France. Is there anyone here that could help?


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## saffron_gin

rynd2it said:


> Don't want to pry but why won't FB let you in? However, to use the FB group you do need to be in France. Is there anyone here that could help?


have no idea...had an original account that lapsed and then later FB claimed I am not myself...and then made a new account during the pandemic and I was stranded in a third country to connect with those in the same boat, it worked for a while and then one day it simply said that my account was something - i dont remember what - all i used it was to engage with that one Americans stranded group - and made the account inactive....as i don't particularly care about Fb in general i just shrugged and went on...i tried to open an account for the ANTS group at some point and it wouldn't let me with my usual array of email address...and i didn't bother after that.


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## saffron_gin

jweihl said:


> Hi V,
> Have you tried an "Attestation d'Honneur"? In the part where they wanted documentation of the date I first took my exam (such documentation doesn't exist any more, if it ever did), I filled out and signed such an attestation and it appears they accepted it, as my license came in the mail on Monday. I'll email you the document that I used in case you want to copy it.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jeff


Thanks Jeff!


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## saffron_gin

Think @jweihl 's suggestion is the way forward...

Any idea about how long I have before I have to respond to that letter (it arrived by email a week ago) and keep my application current that would be most helpful...

As I would have to be back in France for the next part, when they ask me to mail my license and have the new one mailed back...Can it wait till the new Year? If not should I write them a letter to explain my current out-of-country situation, when I send them the Attestation d'Honneur along with the new TDS?


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## papaia

jweihl said:


> Hi V,
> Have you tried an "Attestation d'Honneur"? In the part where they wanted documentation of the date I first took my exam (such documentation doesn't exist any more, if it ever did), I filled out and signed such an attestation and it appears they accepted it, as my license came in the mail on Monday. I'll email you the document that I used in case you want to copy it.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jeff


Absolutely this!!! This is precisely what I had to do, and it worked just fine - hand written and signed.


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## Nunthewiser

jweihl said:


> Hi V,
> Have you tried an "Attestation d'Honneur"? In the part where they wanted documentation of the date I first took my exam (such documentation doesn't exist any more, if it ever did), I filled out and signed such an attestation and it appears they accepted it, as my license came in the mail on Monday. I'll email you the document that I used in case you want to copy it.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jeff


This should work. There is a great group on Facebook called ¨Äpplying for a French Drivers Licence"run by Kim Cranstoun. Her advice to me was to state the date as close as you know and provide evidence that you were residing in the state where you applied at that time. I was first licensed in FL in 1972 and I dug around and found my HS Driverś Ed certificate from 1970 that I will eventually provide as this evidence. This sort of thing (doesn´t have to be a driver´s ed cert- it just so happened) is supposed to be better than an attestation, so the ëxpert said. Iĺl probably provide both, when I do it- can´t see why that would hurt as long as they don´t conflict.

EDIT: I see upthread that you can´t get into Facebook, so here is the relevant discussion I had there:

ME:
US License/EU Citizen. Will be leaving the US soon and I want to see what I need to bring to satisfy this requirement for exchange: "If you have any proof of the date you passed your original test upload that, if not something from the time of living there: • Job contract School reports Tax document Rental contract, anything official to evidence this date. • OR upload the Attestation sur l'honneur letter explaining your licence does not have the date of the original exam (only the last issue date) and you no longer able to obtain proof of it, but that you passed it on xxxx date in xxxx (place), and would be very grateful if they would transfer that date to your French licence."
I was originally issued a US (Florida) licence in 1972. I might have a school test score or transcript from that around that period, more or less (maybe). Does that provide better proof that I resided in the US than an attestation? What's your opinion?

ANSWER: Hello yes your school reports will be much better than an attestation.


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## saffron_gin

Nunthewiser said:


> This should work. There is a great group on Facebook called ¨Äpplying for a French Drivers Licence"run by Kim Cranstoun. Her advice to me was to state the date as close as you know and provide evidence that you were residing in the state where you applied at that time. I was first licensed in FL in 1972 and I dug around and found my HS Driverś Ed certificate from 1970 that I will eventually provide as this evidence. This sort of thing (doesn´t have to be a driver´s ed cert- it just so happened) is supposed to be better than an attestation, so the ëxpert said. Iĺl probably provide both, when I do it- can´t see why that would hurt as long as they don´t conflict.
> 
> EDIT: I see upthread that you can´t get into Facebook, so here is the relevant discussion I had there:
> 
> ME:
> US License/EU Citizen. Will be leaving the US soon and I want to see what I need to bring to satisfy this requirement for exchange: "If you have any proof of the date you passed your original test upload that, if not something from the time of living there: • Job contract School reports Tax document Rental contract, anything official to evidence this date. • OR upload the Attestation sur l'honneur letter explaining your licence does not have the date of the original exam (only the last issue date) and you no longer able to obtain proof of it, but that you passed it on xxxx date in xxxx (place), and would be very grateful if they would transfer that date to your French licence."
> I was originally issued a US (Florida) licence in 1972. I might have a school test score or transcript from that around that period, more or less (maybe). Does that provide better proof that I resided in the US than an attestation? What's your opinion?
> 
> ANSWER: Hello yes your school reports will be much better than an attestation.


Thank you! I could probably get my Deg Cert or transcripts from that time...to add to the attestation...I don't remember the exact month (eiither July or Aug) and most certainly not the date...should I just fudge that or explain I don't recall the actual date? Had the same question for the attestation too...


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## saffron_gin

saffron_gin said:


> Thank you! I could probably get my Deg Cert or transcripts from that time...to add to the attestation...I don't remember the exact month (eiither July or Aug) and most certainly not the date...should I just fudge that or explain I don't recall the actual date? Had the same question for the attestation too...


Also anyone with access to the FB group...could you ask them about the timeframe? As in how long before I have to provide them the additional original date info from the date of above mentioned letter (oct 10, 22)...

TIA


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## saffron_gin

Or the other option is I _do_ have my old licenses going back 10 years...should I just give that information instead? 

As any transcripts/info from 96 will all have my maiden name and I will have to dive down the rabbit hole of obtaining Marriage and then Divorce certificates...for name change proof ....which also seemed rather complicated when I had looked at that process sometime ago...


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## 1790260

As an aside, I once created a FB page (or whatever you call it) purely to join the RIFT site, to read the comment and advice etc. My request to join RIFT was not accepted, nor even responded to. I've no idea what I did or didn't do. Maybe they didn't like the look of me, or didn't like a new FB page... no idea.I deleted my FB page, the only time I've ever been on it. End of aside.


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## ccm47

Your French driving license, when issued, will be in your maiden name so early documents might speed things along, rather than hinder the process.


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## sapphoinmaadi

saffron_gin said:


> Hello Guys,
> 
> After successfully navigating every step along the way of moving to France, I seem to have finally arrived at a rejection. ANTS has sent me an email saying
> 
> Dans le cadre de votre demande en ligne de permis de conduire n°__, certaines pièces justificatives fournies sont incorrectes ou manquantes.
> Veuillez-vous connecter à votre compte, sur le site ANTS afin de consulter les causes de rejet et effectuer les modifications indiquées.
> Cordialement,
> Le service instructeur
> 
> I connected into the ANTS account, but couldn't find anywhere the explicatory information...it seems to me the same as before....Any idea where I could find the information regarding what is missing or the 'causes of rejection' on the ANTS account?
> 
> TIA


I had luck contacting my insurance agent, and if you remember yours, you might try this. They were able to provide the Massachusetts documentation of my driving history as well as a letter stating how many years of coverage I had with them, which was useful for the insurance. I don't remember having any problem exchanging my license, though.


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