# New Visa



## Eamon (Mar 5, 2009)

Hi Guys, I used to live in Mazatlan under FM3 (I think)....I see everything has now changed visa wise, so can someone just clear up the new reqs. for full time residency

1/ You need to show $95,000 USD in your bank or
2/ Monthly income of $2,400 USD

With either, how long is the visa issued for? 

Thanks


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Eamon said:


> Hi Guys, I used to live in Mazatlan under FM3 (I think)....I see everything has now changed visa wise, so can someone just clear up the new reqs. for full time residency
> 
> 1/ You need to show $95,000 USD in your bank or
> 2/ Monthly income of $2,400 USD
> ...


The FM-3 is now called a Residencial Temporal and is good for 1 year at a time with renewals. After 4 years on an Residencial Temporal, you will be converted to the replacement for the FM-2, called a Residencial Permanente. And, like it sounds, it is permanent, good forever or until the rules change. You can also go directly to a Residencial Permanente with sufficient resources.


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## Eamon (Mar 5, 2009)

TundraGreen said:


> The FM-3 is now called a Residencial Temporal and is good for 1 year at a time with renewals. After 4 years on an Residencial Temporal, you will be converted to the replacement for the FM-2, called a Residencial Permanente. And, like it sounds, it is permanent, good forever or until the rules change. You can also go directly to a Residencial Permanente with sufficient resources.


Thanks, but are the amounts I quoted correct? Do you apply before you arrive or after...if after, I guess you need to show bank account statement with the funds?


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

Eamon said:


> Thanks, but are the amounts I quoted correct? Do you apply before you arrive or after...if after, I guess you need to show bank account statement with the funds?


Looks like there is a Mexican Embassy / Consulate in Abu Dhabi. You need to give those folks a call.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Eamon said:


> Thanks, but are the amounts I quoted correct? Do you apply before you arrive or after...if after, I guess you need to show bank account statement with the funds?


You apply at a consulate before you come to Mexico. That is a change from the way it used to work. I don't know what the current income or asset requirements are.


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## Eamon (Mar 5, 2009)

TundraGreen said:


> You apply at a consulate before you come to Mexico. That is a change from the way it used to work. I don't know what the current income or asset requirements are.


From Sticky:

PERMANENT RESIDENT

•Original and copy of proof of investments or bank accounts with an average worth over the previous year equivalent to $95,000.00 USD;
•Original and copy of documents that prove that the foreigner has had for the previous six months an income from a job (outside of Mexico) or a pension that pays at least $2,400.00 USD per month;


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

From: https://www.gob.mx/inm/documentos/p...ente-temporal-estudiante-a-residente-temporal

Residente temporal:
Assets of 20,000 days minimum salary in MXCD, or
Income of 400 days minimum salary in MXCD

Current minimum daily salary in MXCD is $88.36 mxn
Using $1 usd = $18.5 mxn

Assets: $95,500 usd
Income: $1910 usd/month


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

TundraGreen said:


> From: https://www.gob.mx/inm/documentos/p...ente-temporal-estudiante-a-residente-temporal
> 
> Residente temporal:
> Assets of 20,000 days minimum salary in MXCD, or
> ...


For permanent, the equivalent figures used to be 25,000 days or 500 days, but I can't find a source for those numbers currently.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

That sounds about right, for Residente Permanente, but it does change a bit with the exchange rate. It is also somewhat less for Residente Temporal. The nearest Mexican Consulate to your legal residence will be able to give you the current details. You may apply within six months of your entry into Mexico, if approved, and then have 30 days to report to the INM (immigration) office serving your area, with proof of your Mexican residence address, etc. That INM office will begin the tramite process to actually issue the visa card. It can take awhile; up to a couple of months sometimes. You can travel within Mexico during the process, carrying the tramite NUT letter as ID, in lieu of an actual visa.


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## Eamon (Mar 5, 2009)

TundraGreen said:


> For permanent, the equivalent figures used to be 25,000 days or 500 days, but I can't find a source for those numbers currently.


Very helpful and thanks, but I am assuming that you only need one of the below...or is it both? 

Assets: $95,500 usd
Income: $1910 usd/month


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

I think it is either, or. Please call the nearest consulate, or look up their website. The details should be there. That said, some consulates are a bit flexible with their interpretations of the requirements, with some being easy, and some being more difficult. Some are friendly, some are not.


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## Eamon (Mar 5, 2009)

RVGRINGO said:


> I think it is either, or. Please call the nearest consulate, or look up their website. The details should be there. That said, some consulates are a bit flexible with their interpretations of the requirements, with some being easy, and some being more difficult. Some are friendly, some are not.


I hear you ...I couldn't go back to Mazatlan (although I liked it there), as humidity was awful there. How's Lake Chapala? or other, not so humid areas?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

The climate at Lake Chapala is as good as you can find on Planet Earth; never too hot, never too cold and never too humid....99% of the time. We loved it for 13 years and miss it. Having to move to a lower elevation, due to COPD, I would have chosen Mazatlan as the lesser of the coastal evils, but we also needed to take advantage of Medicare and VA Medical Services in the USA, so we are now in Tucson.

I just found the following visa requirements on another site:

*2018 VISA REQUIREMENTS AT MEXICAN CONSULATES OUTSIDE MEXICO:*
To qualify for the *temporary* visa they must show a monthly income of 300 times the minimum wage (for 2018 it is 88.36 pesos) or 26,508 pesos or $1,369 US dollars using an exchange rate of 19.37 to 1 (using January 3, 2018 exchange rate). This must be documented with 6 months bank statements. People who have liquid assets may qualify showing that they have maintained an average balance of 5,000 times the minimum wage (for 2018 it is 80.36 pesos) or 441,800 pesos or $22,808 US dollars using an exchange rate of 19.37 to 1 (using January 3, 2018 exchange rate). This must be documented with 12 months bank statements.

To qualify for the *permanent* visa they must show a monthly income of 500 times the minimum wage (for 2018 it is 88.36 pesos) or 44,180 pesos or $2,281 US dollars using an exchange rate of 19.37 to 1 (using January 3, 2018 exchange rate). This must be documented with 6 months bank statements. People who have liquid assets may qualify showing that they have maintained an average balance of 20,000 times the minimum wage (for 2018 it is 88.36 pesos) or 1,767,200 pesos or $91,233 US dollars using an exchange rate of 19.37 to 1 (using January 3, 2018 exchange rate). This must be documented with 12 months bank statements.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> From: https://www.gob.mx/inm/documentos/p...ente-temporal-estudiante-a-residente-temporal
> 
> Residente temporal:
> Assets of 20,000 days minimum salary in MXCD, or
> ...


Lately I have read more Mexican Consulates aren´t giving Residente Permanente 6 month preapproved visas out unless it is a person 55 or older and their monthly deposits [and investment accounts] are from pension sources no matter the amount. They allow the applicants Residente Temporal visas only.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

AlanMexicali said:


> Lately I have read more Mexican Consulates aren´t giving Residente Permanente 6 month preapproved visas out unless it is a person 55 or older and their monthly deposits [and investment accounts] are from pension sources no matter the amount. They allow the applicants Residente Temporal visas only.


Why do you think that is ? A reaction to things going on NOB ? People receiving RP status and never coming to Mexico (wasting consulate's time) ? People painting a rosier picture of their finances than reality - perhaps a funding source dried up ? Perhaps they are doing people a favor since RT allows driving a US plated car ?

It has been a while now - but we requested RT and they gave us RP without asking. I did say something like "we want to spend the rest of our days in Mexico". Also - I can't swear but we took a trial run to the consulate to get a feel of what they thought of our paperwork - and I'm pretty sure they wanted 12 months of financial statements. Maybe that is a consulate specific thing.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I tried to get an RP at the Seattle consulate back before the election and although I had sufficient resources and was over 55 they suggested it didn't sound like I was sure enough that I'd stay in Mexico forever and only approved an RT. It depends on the discretion of the officials you deal with. 

I also think I should have been able to convert to an RP after the first year on RT, but the INS office I went to also refused to do that, saying I _had_ to spend all 4 years on an RT before I could get an RP. It depends on the discretion of the officials you deal with.

After the first year you are supposed to be able to renew your RT for one, two or three years. The official initially resisted letting me renew for more than one year, saying it would likely not be approved, but I said I wanted to apply for 3 years anyway. It did get approved. The official that actually evaluated and approved the application was not the one trying to steer me to a one-year renewal. So that also depends on the officials you deal with.

Your mileage may vary.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

One thing that MAY have helped make/influence our case was we had prepared a menaje and intended to drive all our worldly goods down with us. They approved the menaje on the same day they issued the RP pre-approval. I wonder if a similar tactic on your part would have an influence.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> I just found the following visa requirements on another site:
> 
> *2018 VISA REQUIREMENTS AT MEXICAN CONSULATES OUTSIDE MEXICO:*
> To qualify for the *temporary* visa they must show a monthly income of 300 times the minimum wage (for 2018 it is 88.36 pesos) or 26,508 pesos or $1,369 US dollars using an exchange rate of 19.37 to 1 (using January 3, 2018 exchange rate). This must be documented with 6 months bank statements.


I've always found it odd that you can qualify for RT status based on income you are earning when applying for the visa. If the job is not one you will continue to have when you move to Mexico, what guarantee is there that you will continue to earn the required income? Can anyone explain the reasoning behind this requirement to me?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> The climate at Lake Chapala is as good as you can find on Planet Earth; never too hot, never too cold and never too humid....99% of the time. We loved it for 13 years and miss it. Having to move to a lower elevation, due to COPD, I would have chosen Mazatlan as the lesser of the coastal evils, but we also needed to take advantage of Medicare and VA Medical Services in the USA, so we are now in Tucson.
> 
> I just found the following visa requirements on another site:
> 
> ...


That is curious because the web site I linked below had different numbers and said it was current as of 1 January 2018.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> I've always found it odd that you can qualify for RT status based on income you are earning when applying for the visa. If the job is not one you will continue to have when you move to Mexico, what guarantee is there that you will continue to earn the required income? Can anyone explain the reasoning behind this requirement to me?


Maybe they assume it is a pension and will continue wherever the person lives. Trying to understand the logic behind bureaucratic rules is often futile.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> Maybe they assume it is a pension and will continue wherever the person lives. Trying to understand the logic behind bureaucratic rules is often futile.


That's a definite possibility, but do they ask for the source of the income? And what about applicants too young to have a pension? I wonder why bureaucracies are the way they are, another futile question, I suppose!


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

No two websites, and no two consulates seem to ever agree. Such is Mexican logic and the power of the most junior clerk in front of you. An applicant could have the printed laws in hand, notarized and sealed, but still be found unworthy.....especially if he pulled them out and argued the point! Doom and gloom would follow him out the door.
Having learned that lesson, one might travel to another consulate, hat in hand, smiling, shaking hands and asking (ever so meekly) for assistance with his lifelong wish to retire to Mexico lindo, pais de sus suenos.....por favor, oficial.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> That's a definite possibility, but do they ask for the source of the income? And what about applicants too young to have a pension? I wonder why bureaucracies are the way they are, another futile question, I suppose!


The 2011 INM law has always had a point system to determine eligibility and Retirees under Residente Temporal is the most used one as they have financial solvency from pensions and investement sources ONLY clearly laid out. The other categories are not the same as there are classifications such as professional, sports star, artistic personality [Singer, actor etc.], scientist, engineer, corporate executive, investor, refugee, etc and these are not always necessarily used often enough on these Expat fórums it appears for foreigners wanting to live in Mexico so the Mx. Consulates used the Retirees point system when they actually shouldn´t be using the Retirees category to admit professionals who meet the point system but chose to run them though the financial solvency Retiree category instead and this is why they sometimes accepted pay stubs but they were not following the law correctly and I presume wanted professionals in Mexico. Retirees is not under Residente Permanente only RT but RP is also available with financial solvency but is not classified as Retiree, if I remember correctly. The law also insinuates Retirees should do 4 years on a RT before becoming a RP. and policy is 2years on a RT with a family bond [vinculo familiar] before becoming a RP. but contradicts the law and the rules. The law and rule both state immediate RP when married to a Mexican National, not 2 years of RT first. I bet some posters here were asked their education level when applying at a Mx. Consulate and didn´t know why or think about it later.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

eastwind said:


> I tried to get an RP at the Seattle consulate back before the election and although I had sufficient resources and was over 55 they suggested it didn't sound like I was sure enough that I'd stay in Mexico forever and only approved an RT. It depends on the discretion of the officials you deal with.
> 
> I also think I should have been able to convert to an RP after the first year on RT, but the INS office I went to also refused to do that, saying I _had_ to spend all 4 years on an RT before I could get an RP. It depends on the discretion of the officials you deal with.
> 
> ...


So - do you have a CURP ? Have you approached IMSS for insurance ? At something less than $400 USD that seems like a rather cheap stop-gap.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

lat19n said:


> So - do you have a CURP ? Have you approached IMSS for insurance ? At something less than $400 USD that seems like a rather cheap stop-gap.


I don't understand why you're asking me this.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

eastwind said:


> I don't understand why you're asking me this.


You were making the distinction between RP and RT and I could not recall if as an RT you could get a CURP. Some people were lucky and INM created one and put the info on their credential on day 1 (not us). When we first tried to get a CURP (at some government agency) we were told that only citizens could get them (which was false).


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

lat19n said:


> You were making the distinction between RP and RT and I could not recall if as an RT you could get a CURP. Some people were lucky and INM created one and put the info on their credential on day 1 (not us). When we first tried to get a CURP (at some government agency) we were told that only citizens could get them (which was false).


Before the rule changed any foreigner married to a Mexican National with a Mexican registered marriage license could get a CURP from a Registro Civil. I got one at the SLP Registro Civil then over 2 years before I started my 2 year Residente Temporal application at the INM office here in SLP. [I waited and waited and waited until the 2011 law began [Nov. 9th 2012] to apply but they were ready for me to fill out the application the day I came back with the certified marriage license]. I did need a FM1 and a "permiso para matrimonio" from the local INM office before we were married in SLP though and return to get a certificate from INM within 30 days of the marrigae and give them a certified copy of our marriage license [this step is now no longer required in the 2011 Immigration Law]. I needed a CURP for enrolment in the ISSSTE medical plan and a couple of other things right away.

About 6 years ago the law changed and only INM could give CURPs to all foriegners with a valid RT or RP vísa/card. So if you went to get one at your Registro Civil they would tell you only citizens can get CURPs - there.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

AlanMexicali said:


> Before the rule changed any foreigner married to a Mexican National with a Mexican registered marriage license could get a CURP from a Registro Civil. I got one at the SLP Registro Civil then over 2 years before I started my 2 year Residente Temporal application at the INM office here in SLP. [I waited and waited and waited until the 2011 law began [Nov. 9th 2012] to apply but they were ready for me to fill out the application the day I came back with the certified marriage license]. I did need a FM1 and a "permiso para matrimonio" from the local INM office before we were married in SLP though and return to get a certificate from INM within 30 days of the marrigae and give them a certified copy of our marriage license [this step is now no longer required in the 2011 Immigration Law]. I needed a CURP for enrolment in the ISSSTE medical plan and a couple of other things right away.
> 
> About 6 years ago the law changed and only INM could give CURPs to all foriegners with a valid RT or RP vísa/card. So if you went to get one at your Registro Civil they would tell you only citizens can get CURPs - there.


I got a CURP from INEGI in January 2011. Then I went to SAT and got an RFC, needed for a job. At SAT we realized my name was misspelled on the CURP, so SAT corrected that error resulting in a new CURP. At the time I was here on an FM-3, granted through the Peace Corps. When the Peace Corps ended they canceled my FM-3, so I was really an illegal immigrant at the time. With the CURP, RFC, and a new job, I got a new FM-3 with permission to work. Then a year later switched to an FM-2, then Residente Permanente and eventually citizenship.

CURP - Clave Única de Registro de Población
INEGI - Instituto Nacional de Estadística y Geografia
RFC - Registro Federal de Contribuyentes
SAT - Servicio Administración Tributaria


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

TundraGreen said:


> I got a CURP from INEGI in January 2011. Then I went to SAT and got an RFC, needed for a job. At SAT we realized my name was misspelled on the CURP, so SAT corrected that error resulting in a new CURP. At the time I was here on an FM-3, granted through the Peace Corps. When the Peace Corps ended they canceled my FM-3, so I was really an illegal immigrant at the time. With the CURP, RFC, and a new job, I got a new FM-3 with permission to work. Then a year later switched to an FM-2, then Residente Permanente and eventually citizenship.
> 
> CURP - Clave Única de Registro de Población
> INEGI - Instituto Nacional de Estadística y Geografia
> ...


INEGI is a really interesting place. You can get maps etc (for free) there. You can also research properties and such.

Do you know if, as a citizen, you are required to have an RFC ? The RFC's we have at the moment were fabricated by financial institutions and are not valid. But since we have no earned income in Mexico I have not interfaced with SAT.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

After I got the one year RT, I asked about a CURP and they simply gave me the web site where you can look yours up if you have one. But it never indicated that I had one. I haven't tried since I renewed the RT for 3 more years - I don't need one for anything.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

eastwind said:


> After I got the one year RT, I asked about a CURP and they simply gave me the web site where you can look yours up if you have one. But it never indicated that I had one. I haven't tried since I renewed the RT for 3 more years - I don't need one for anything.


Getting the CURP from INM was like a 5 minute thing - most of the time was spent talking about American football. We might have made an appointment.

You may need a CURP for your INAPAM card. Have you gone for one of those ? Can you get one with an RT ? I think you have to be 60.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

lat19n said:


> You may need a CURP for your INAPAM card. Have you gone for one of those ? Can you get one with an RT ? I think you have to be 60.


I got my INAPAM card some years ago, so I don't remember if a CURP was required. I got mine with an FM3. And, yes, you have to be 60 to qualify for one.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

lat19n said:


> Getting the CURP from INM was like a 5 minute thing - most of the time was spent talking about American football. We might have made an appointment.
> 
> You may need a CURP for your INAPAM card. Have you gone for one of those ? Can you get one with an RT ? I think you have to be 60.


Residente Temporals are not restricted to things a Residente Permanente can get except working according to all the legal benefits listed on the letter we all got with our RT or RP card taped to. It welcomed legal residents and had a list of benefits that came with legal residency.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

AlanMexicali said:


> Residente Temporals are not restricted to things a Residente Permanente can get except working according to all the legal benefits listed on the letter we all got with our RT or RP card taped to. It welcomed legal residents and had a list of benefits that came with legal residency.


Ok - for completeness - since we are here...

- I think that we needed to have our RP credentials before we could open a savings / investment account at the bank. They had no issue with a checking account beforehand.

- Can anyone get a driver's license ? Maybe that is state specific.

- Can anyone get IMSS insurance ?

What am I leaving out ?

edit : and I guess that you need to have RP before you can visit SRE for nationalization ?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

lat19n said:


> Can anyone get IMSS insurance ?


I'm sure you need to be a legal resident (RT or RP) to qualify.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

lat19n said:


> …
> 
> edit : and I guess that you need to have RP before you can visit SRE for nationalization ?


You need five years as a Residente Permanente to apply for citizenship by reason of residence. If you have a Mexican relative (spouse) the wait is two years.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

TundraGreen said:


> You need five years as a Residente Permanente to apply for citizenship by reason of residence. If you have a Mexican relative (spouse) the wait is two years.


We have done the five years as RP and have an appointment to get our state good conduct letters tomorrow. 

But your answer is interesting in that if they push people into 4 year RTs, then on top of that you need an additional 5 years as RP ?

Edit : that is not right ... just need five years of residence. 

" Exhibit original and two photocopies of the card issued by the Ministry of the Interior certifying the status of temporary resident, or permanent resident, with which the interested party proves his / her legal stay (Art. 14 RLN), as a consequence, the residence in the country for five immediate years prior to the date of the application, which must be valid for at least six months, after the application has been submitted, from which the Single Population Registration Code (CURP) is released;"

I don't understand that phrase about the CURP.


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