# If I knew then what I know now.....



## Chimaera (Aug 12, 2015)

As a long time lurker for whom a move to Spain might just soon become a reality, I view hindsight as a wonderful thing. The saying 'if I knew then what I know now' is of course subjective, but if you had to impart a few nuggets of wisdom gleaned through your experiences to those of us who are considering embarking on a new life in Spain, what would they be?


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## musie (Dec 23, 2014)

*paperwork*

Be prepared to be up to your eyes in needless paper work,double standards of what you need ,inept electrical companies when registering your property ,ridiculous humidity get a dehumidifier, oh and the Spanish don't do anything quietly ,speaking ,driving scooters,watching football,close apartment doors if you can buy a house in the middle of nowhere you maybe okay


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

So Musie how long have you worked for the Spanish tourist board?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Chimaera said:


> As a long time lurker for whom a move to Spain might just soon become a reality, I view hindsight as a wonderful thing. The saying 'if I knew then what I know now' is of course subjective, but if you had to impart a few nuggets of wisdom gleaned through your experiences to those of us who are considering embarking on a new life in Spain, what would they be?


Check your future finances. If you have no money worries life is usually good. Remember exchange and tax rates fluctuate.
If you are looking for work and have no job lined up, stay home.
Spain is a modern, western nation state so apart from the climate ( depending on which part of Spain you move to) your life will be much the same but more relaxed, if retired.
Learn some Spanish. It will take a few years before you become truly fluent but knowing a little helps and you can build on it.
Don't mistake Spain for Paradise....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

musie said:


> Be prepared to be up to your eyes in needless paper work,double standards of what you need ,inept electrical companies when registering your property ,ridiculous humidity get a dehumidifier, oh and the Spanish don't do anything quietly ,speaking ,driving scooters,watching football,close apartment doors if you can buy a house in the middle of nowhere you maybe okay


But otherwise it's alright


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Come with an open mind.
Don't expect anything to be the same, (Why should it be?) From how to make an appointment at the docors, to what is classified as the afternoon (you thought you knew that, didn't you?), to how many questions you can be asked about how you want your coffee, to finding out what the best way to communicate with a company is you'll find some surprises.
Be prepared to not understand (language, situations, ways of doing things), and to realise that that in itself can be tiring.
Be willing to admit that sometimes the Spanish way is actually better...


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Fully endorse what has been said about the benefits of learning Spanish, and also the need to accept that things are often done very differently.

As well as being willing to acknowledge that in some cases the Spanish way can be better, you also need to acknowledge that even when it isn't, it isn't going to change for you.

Don't come with the attitude that you are doing Spain a favour by coming here and spending your money, and they should be grateful.

Don't waste money by using your high street bank to transfer funds to your Spanish account - use a good currency exchange firm instead.

Don't assume that every person of your own nationality you meet here is trustworthy and only has your best interests at heart, especially if they seem keen to befriend you and then want to do work for you. 

Conversely, don't assume that every Spanish business or tradesperson you encounter is out to rip you off because you're a foreigner.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

> *Lynn R* As well as being willing to acknowledge that in some cases the Spanish way can be better, you also need to acknowledge that even when it isn't, it isn't going to change for you


OOh, that's a good one, very good.


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## Chimaera (Aug 12, 2015)

It's very interesting that a common theme is not to have expectations of how life might be, but to very much go with the flow and embrace a different and perhaps 'manana' way of life - after all that's perhaps why some people move to Spain in the first place. As a bit of a cynic, I almost expect things to be difficult and perhaps even go wrong (from a bureaucracy viewpoint at least), which isn't always a good way to look at life but might equip me well for Spain!

mrypg9 sensible words indeed re finances - we will not be seeking work, so an adequate cushion plus allowances for tax and exchange rate fluctuations are all important.

That point Pesky Wesky regarding some Spanish ways perhaps being better is great - accepting that different doesn't mean wrong or bad just because you've always done something a certain way - embrace the challenge of change!

Lynn R it is absolutely the acceptance of 'it's not going to change', after all why should it for me - even if you think there might be a better way!

On a serious note, I know there will be times of utter disbelieving frustration and that things can and will go wrong, but I'm sure for most of you who have felt times like this you have believed that it has been worth it.

Thank you all for your replies thus far, they are much appreciated.


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## Maureen47 (Mar 27, 2014)

We have only had practice runs so far before the permanent move in a couple of months, a couple of things to add to the others comments

the heat can be really oppressive when temps are high for a number of days or weeks , I think this Summer has been a good example of that , so its accepting it not fighting it !

the standard of driving and how people treat cars is very different in my experience , I would never have a new car in Spain to be concerned about it being damaged

things generally take longer but for me its all good , time is taken to serve customers in shops , if you want the quick till , its not there (maybe different in big cities)

things happen at different times and when you get in synch with them its all ok , eating at different times , shops closed for siesta, lots of public holidays

Sure there are many more , I don't these things as negatives , they just require you to adapt to the country you chose to live in and as another poster says they are not going to change so have to be accepted to enjoy life.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

To paraphrase L.P. Hartley, "Spain is a foreign country: they do things differently there". Even if you move to a place where everyone speaks English, the shops sell British newspapers and foods, and you get given menus in English when you go out to eat at 8 pm, you are still in a foreign country, and you must expect the unexpected. Just keep an open mind and be prepared to be flexible!


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## spicer187171 (Apr 19, 2015)

I intend to have a few weeks in Spain to see if it's for us, I hope so, as I've set my heart on it! I will visit lots of places in Southern Spain. I like the look of Huercal Overa, and suppose to have " the state of the art" hospital also. Does anyone know of this area. Some of these properties look a bit remote, so I don't know about services to the property. So, where's the best places to live. I don't want an urbanisation. Regards Joe


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> ....Be prepared to not understand (language, situations, ways of doing things), and to realise that that in itself can be tiring...


It took me many months to realise this and people on the forum figured it out for me. I was absolutely, positively exhausted for the first few months!!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Chimaera said:


> It's very interesting that a common theme is not to have expectations of how life might be, but to very much go with the flow and embrace a different and perhaps 'manana' way of life - after all that's perhaps why some people move to Spain in the first place. As a bit of a cynic, I almost expect things to be difficult and perhaps even go wrong (from a bureaucracy viewpoint at least), which isn't always a good way to look at life but might equip me well for Spain!
> 
> mrypg9 sensible words indeed re finances - we will not be seeking work, so an adequate cushion plus allowances for tax and exchange rate fluctuations are all important.
> 
> ...


Some things are slower, some things are not - a burial for example! A lot of things are very bureaucratic and therefore can seem slow. That's different to a mañana attitiude though. In my work life I don't really see the mañana take on things. In other aspects perhaps ie mending the road, surfacing a car park, getting up from the table after a meal with friends or family (not tomorrow, but lunch seems to end at around 10 in the evening)
But this, and the other things I mentioned on my other post are not intended to be criticisms, just observations. In 29 years there have been plenty of frustrations, but I don't think many of them have been to do with living in Spain as opposed to the UK


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## Chica22 (Feb 26, 2010)

Dont assume that a solicitor will undertake everything for you, prepare a list of actions/questions for them.


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## Chimaera (Aug 12, 2015)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Some things are slower, some things are not - a burial for example! A lot of things are very bureaucratic and therefore can seem slow. That's different to a mañana attitiude though. In my work life I don't really see the mañana take on things. In other aspects perhaps ie mending the road, surfacing a car park, getting up from the table after a meal with friends or family (not tomorrow, but lunch seems to end at around 10 in the evening)
> But this, and the other things I mentioned on my other post are not intended to be criticisms, just observations. In 29 years there have been plenty of frustrations, but I don't think many of them have been to do with living in Spain as opposed to the UK


You are quite right, it is all about perspective - it is unfair despite it being natural, to compare say the UK with Spain. You cannot place expectations on a new country based on what you have been used to in a previous one. For me, learning, trying and experiencing a new country is part of the attraction of the move. And whilst I understand that it will be a steep learning curve, with pain along the way, I might as well embrace that as that's just part of life anywhere.


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## smitty5668 (Feb 25, 2015)

spicer187171 said:


> I intend to have a few weeks in Spain to see if it's for us, I hope so, as I've set my heart on it! I will visit lots of places in Southern Spain. I like the look of Huercal Overa, and suppose to have " the state of the art" hospital also. Does anyone know of this area. Some of these properties look a bit remote, so I don't know about services to the property. So, where's the best places to live. I don't want an urbanisation. Regards Joe


it did have one of the largest meat processing plants in europe. if your considering around there, better to live up wind so to speak.
also a lot of illegal builds ln this area around the almanzora valley.


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## Rossi (Aug 11, 2015)

Hi everyone" we are thinking of retiring to Spain in the next 12 months so thought the best way of starting to find out any info was from this forum. We are going over for a week or so in October so plan to check out some estate agents to give us some ideas. I saw a post mentioning taxes? What taxes would we have to pay and can u recommend a website for more info please?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Rossi said:


> Hi everyone" we are thinking of retiring to Spain in the next 12 months so thought the best way of starting to find out any info was from this forum. We are going over for a week or so in October so plan to check out some estate agents to give us some ideas. I saw a post mentioning taxes? What taxes would we have to pay and can u recommend a website for more info please?


This site gives a good explanation of Spanish income tax rates and personal allowances:-


Spanish income tax rates 2015

If you keep any assets such as a property, savings, shares, etc. in the UK and they are worth €50,000 or over in any one asset class you also need to submit a separate declaration of all your overseas assets (called the Modelo 720).


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

We have found out the hard way. 

You may think it is ok to have a short drive to the doctors or be 20 minutes by car from the local hospital. The truth is that, if you are retiring here, in a few years you may not be able to drive to the doctors or the hospital.

We now find ourselves with medical problems that tend to come with old age and, without being able to drive, the need for frequent doctor/hospital visits where the return journey takes 3-4 hours.

Also a house with lots of stairs maybe ok when you are physically active but can become a nightmare when you are no longer mobile.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

DunWorkin said:


> We have found out the hard way.
> 
> You may think it is ok to have a short drive to the doctors or be 20 minutes by car from the local hospital. The truth is that, if you are retiring here, in a few years you may not be able to drive to the doctors or the hospital.
> 
> ...


In Pais Vasco and Cantabria, there are public ambulances that take the elderly to their appointments if they don't have a ride. Is that not available for you?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> In Pais Vasco and Cantabria, there are public ambulances that take the elderly to their appointments if they don't have a ride. Is that not available for you?


Here that service exists, but it doesn't work very well. They pick you up when they are in the area and take you back when they have more people going that way, which eans you can spend hours waiting around for a 10 min appointment, but it's the typical kind of thing that could work very well in other areas so worth finding out about. Here it's been privatised, so it's not the Seg Soc ambulances doing it...


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

elenetxu said:


> In Pais Vasco and Cantabria, there are public ambulances that take the elderly to their appointments if they don't have a ride. Is that not available for you?


No we do not have that unless it is an emergency. 

It is not just appointments. When my husband was in the hospital a few weeks ago I had to get a tram then a bus (which only runs once an hour) to visit him every day.

Our doctor's surgery is 2.5km from us (up a very steep hill). There is a bus to there at 7am and 9am and back at 8.30am and 1.30pm so if you miss the 8.30 bus you have to get a taxi or walk.

As I said, when we first moved here in 2004 we were both fit and healthy and each had a car. You always forget that in 11 years situations may change.

I try and remind people to think to the future when buying somewhere to live - especially in retirement.


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## MalagaBob (Apr 14, 2015)

Im always amazed at some of the negative replies in forums when a question of this type is asked.

There are positive and negatives in moving and starting a new life anywhere in the world.

Has Spain got negatives, frustrations and problems? Of course it has like every other country in the world.

If your coming here for a knees up and think everything is rosy and you'll get by without any forward planning then you need to have a reality check.

Some of the negative replies highlighting trivial issues makes me think how bad peoples lives are before they move to this country. If you experience this many problems while living in Spain, surely you would simply go back to the utopia you lived in before moving abroad?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

MalagaBob said:


> Im always amazed at some of the negative replies in forums when a question of this type is asked.
> 
> There are positive and negatives in moving and starting a new life anywhere in the world.
> 
> ...


I'm just wondering which comments would you see as trivial or negative Bob?


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

MalagaBob said:


> Im always amazed at some of the negative replies in forums when a question of this type is asked.
> 
> There are positive and negatives in moving and starting a new life anywhere in the world.
> 
> ...



We are trying to solve our problems by moving but we cannot sell our house - don't say reduce the price - we have already done that to 'silly price' but stil no takers.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

MalagaBob said:


> Im always amazed at some of the negative replies in forums when a question of this type is asked.
> 
> There are positive and negatives in moving and starting a new life anywhere in the world.
> 
> ...


Hardly a trivial issue for the person involved. I thought it was very sound advice, I know someone in a similar situation.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

MalagaBob said:


> Im always amazed at some of the negative replies in forums when a question of this type is asked.


Stick around noob, you'll get used to it 

Don't forget, the majority here are British, and the Brits are by and large a whiny bunch, privileged though they are.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

MalagaBob said:


> Im always amazed at some of the negative replies in forums when a question of this type is asked.
> 
> There are positive and negatives in moving and starting a new life anywhere in the world.
> 
> ...





Horlics said:


> Stick around noob, you'll get used to it
> 
> Don't forget, the majority here are British, and the Brits are by and large a whiny bunch, privileged though they are.


As MalagaBob hasn't answered my query, I decided to reread the posts.
IME there have been some great posts giving a real insight and valuable information, and the OP seems to agree.
There have been 2 posts that could be classified as "negative", again IME, by Dunworkin and another poster, but both of those also contain truths.
Why is it that if you tell the truth you are referred to as whiny or negative. Is that also a British trait, shying away from reality? I didn't think so, but it does seems to be a recurring theme on the forum. Perhaps it's the people wanting to and living in Spain?

Anyway, back to the OP. A more down to earth recommendation would be to not throw away your winter wardrobe entirely. Houses can get very cold in the winter and you may find it colder inside than outside. There are a few months of the year where I put a jumper on to go inside! And this has also been commented on by many people living in the south.
If you travel to other parts of Spain you may need warmer clothes. I've just come back from Cantabria where, at night, I wore jeans and a fleece. Yesterday in Madrid I wore a bikini all day.
Also height can affect temperature.

_This is not intended to be a negative comment. I classify it as information_


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Also
Before you buy (or rent possibly)


 Find out where and when the local fiestas are. Your fiesta might be a traditional food and dance type thing but ours are bullfighting, all night discos and fireworks.
 Make sure you know about dry river beds as they won't be dry for ever. You only need one flash flood for your house to be destroyed.
 Find out what the weather is like winter and summer.
 Think about the orientation of the house and the sun/ cold mountain air in relation to this.
 Find out about winter and summer activities/ facilities (bus services, opening times etc)
 Read this
 http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyr...ia_comprar.pdf

_This is not intended to be a negative comment. I classify it as information_


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

DunWorkin said:


> We have found out the hard way.
> 
> You may think it is ok to have a short drive to the doctors or be 20 minutes by car from the local hospital. The truth is that, if you are retiring here, in a few years you may not be able to drive to the doctors or the hospital.
> 
> ...


Do you think the same could have happened to you in the UK?


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Do you think the same could have happened to you in the UK?


Yes, probably if we lived in a remote rural area BUT in UK there tends to be help available from volunteers who will take people to doctors or hospital. Also, in the UK we would have family members to help us.

If we manage to sell our house we will probably stay in Spain but somewhere with better access to medical facilities.

I just want other people to be aware of what can happen when you are less mobile and unable to drive. Just choose a house with this in mind.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

DunWorkin said:


> Yes, probably if we lived in a remote rural area BUT in UK there tends to be help available from volunteers who will take people to doctors or hospital. Also, in the UK we would have family members to help us.
> 
> If we manage to sell our house we will probably stay in Spain but somewhere with better access to medical facilities.
> 
> I just want other people to be aware of what can happen when you are less mobile and unable to drive. Just choose a house with this in mind.


The other problem, of course, is that it is much more expensive to buy and sell property in Spain than it is in the UK, plus it generally takes much, much longer to sell a property, so it is harder just to move somewhere else in Spain if a location becomes unsuitable for you.

Although we were only in our early 50s/late 40s when we bought our house we chose a town location 5 minutes' walk to a health centre and a 15 minute bus ride from the regional hospital (with a bus every 15 minutes during the day) for just the kind of reasons you have outlined. I have never driven so having good public transport links and easy access to medical facilities was very important to me.

Fingers crossed that you find a buyer soon and life becomes a little easier.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

I'd say when choosing a house and if approaching or already of retirement age, be aware of the well-trodden expat path:

1. Buy house in countryside or elsewhere where a car is a necessity
2. Sell it and buy an apartment in the middle of town near all the facilities
3. Sell it and go "home" to die



DunWorkin said:


> Yes, probably if we lived in a remote rural area BUT in UK there tends to be help available from volunteers who will take people to doctors or hospital. Also, in the UK we would have family members to help us.
> 
> If we manage to sell our house we will probably stay in Spain but somewhere with better access to medical facilities.
> 
> I just want other people to be aware of what can happen when you are less mobile and unable to drive. Just choose a house with this in mind.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

That's a very good list. Where I live, there are people who have markets and/or bull tormenting areas and/or pop-up stages and bars under their windows for up to 4 weeks a year. You could buy one of these without realising it!

South facing is a very desirable thing if you're going to be occupying the property in the winter. It makes an enormous difference.



Pesky Wesky said:


> Also
> Before you buy (or rent possibly)
> 
> 
> ...


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> The other problem, of course, is that it is much more expensive to buy and sell property in Spain than it is in the UK, plus it generally takes much, much longer to sell a property, so it is harder just to move somewhere else in Spain if a location becomes unsuitable for you.
> 
> Although we were only in our early 50s/late 40s when we bought our house we chose a town location 5 minutes' walk to a health centre and a 15 minute bus ride from the regional hospital (with a bus every 15 minutes during the day) for just the kind of reasons you have outlined. I have never driven so having good public transport links and easy access to medical facilities was very important to me.
> 
> Fingers crossed that you find a buyer soon and life becomes a little easier.


Good points! I saw one of those Place in the Sun programmes recently. A woman aged 72 was looking for a country place in France. She bought one completely isolated with large garden. No neighbours in sight, neither did she speak much French so not much chance of making friends. Neither her friend or the Presenter mentioned that it could be unwise. It is so easy to get carried away with the beauty of a place and not consider practicalities.

We have friends who hardly socialise now. They live up a track close to Monda. She doesn't drive and he is no good at night driving so their outings are confined to lunches.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Isobella said:


> Good points! I saw one of those Place in the Sun programmes recently. A woman aged 72 was looking for a country place in France. She bought one completely isolated with large garden. No neighbours in sight, neither did she speak much French so not much chance of making friends. Neither her friend or the Presenter mentioned that it could be unwise. It is so easy to get carried away with the beauty of a place and not consider practicalities.
> 
> We have friends who hardly socialise now. They live up a track close to Monda. She doesn't drive and he is no good at night driving so their outings are confined to lunches.


I know, I can't think what possesses some people. When we first came here we were in Spanish classes with a couple who had had their own villa built near Canillas de Aceituno. Beautiful place, but she didn't drive and he was already over 80 then. How was she going to manage once something happened to him?:confused2:


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

DunWorkin said:


> Yes, probably if we lived in a remote rural area BUT in UK there tends to be help available from volunteers who will take people to doctors or hospital. Also, in the UK we would have family members to help us.
> 
> If we manage to sell our house we will probably stay in Spain but somewhere with better access to medical facilities.
> 
> I just want other people to be aware of what can happen when you are less mobile and unable to drive. Just choose a house with this in mind.


Have you spoken to your medical center about getting to the hospital as the ambulance should pick you up & take you back if your needs dictate this.
This is the TNA ambulance & in Xativa you will see them coming and going all day long taking patients backwards & forwards.

(edit) Opps just gone back a few pages and read earlier comments / reply's.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Horlics said:


> Stick around noob, you'll get used to it
> 
> Don't forget, the majority here are British, and the Brits are by and large a whiny bunch, privileged though they are.


What a silly reply, Horlics. Not everyone is as thoughtful and forward planning as you seem to be.
This thread asked for 'irritating' things about Spain, not major problems but what may be an irritation for some can be a serious problem for others.
One of the many reasons why we decided to rent and not buy was that although fit and healthy when we arrived seven years ago and still thankfully so, we realised that whilst now it's great living in a largeish house with lots of stairs in a situation where a car is a must the time will come when we need to downsize and be in a town with amenities near to hand.
Moving is a doddle when you've no property to sell and when you have sufficient funds to choose the rental that suits you.

Some posters have expressed serious concerns which admittedly wasn't the purpose of this thread. But thread stray happens.
Something you perhaps should get used to


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

mrypg9 said:


> What a silly reply, Horlics. Not everyone is as thoughtful and forward planning as you seem to be.
> This thread asked for 'irritating' things about Spain, not major problems but what may be an irritation for some can be a serious problem for others.
> One of the many reasons why we decided to rent and not buy was that although fit and healthy when we arrived seven years ago and still thankfully so, we realised that whilst now it's great living in a largeish house with lots of stairs in a situation where a car is a must the time will come when we need to downsize and be in a town with amenities near to hand.
> Moving is a doddle when you've no property to sell and when you have sufficient funds to choose the rental that suits you.
> ...


I think you've got your threads crossed, Mary (must be the heat) This isn't the Irritating Little Things About Spain one, it's the If I Knew Then What I Know Now one.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> I think you've got your threads crossed, Mary (must be the heat) This isn't the Irritating Little Things About Spain one, it's the If I Knew Then What I Know Now one.


Yes, apologies to Horlics although my point stands. I'm using my tablet without my glasses, enlarging text, which is daft and vain, I know. I was browsing the 'Irritating' thread and obviously forgot I'd left it. It's been in the low 40Cs today but no, not theheat, my 'senior moment' as I believe these things are called

I agree with all that's been said about forgetting we all get old and to some extent infirm. What seems like a good idea when you are young can be a nightmare when you are older.
Thoughts like that should be part of planning the move, surely. One reason for choosing to settle where we are now was easy access to doctor and vet and hospital not too far if needed.
As it happened both Sandra and I needed the hospital for different problems. At one point we were going to curas three times a week, driving ourselves.
As we see it, having the freedom to move easily is the big plus point of renting, that and having the cash from the sale of properties should you need more extensive personal care, although I hope I pop my clogs before I get to that stage.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> Although we were only in our early 50s/late 40s when we bought our house we chose a town location 5 minutes' walk to a health centre and a 15 minute bus ride from the regional hospital (with a bus every 15 minutes during the day) for just the kind of reasons you have outlined. I have never driven so having good public transport links and easy access to medical facilities was very important to me.


Another thing I've learnt from the forum.
When I look for my retirement house, which won't be where I'm living now, I'll think about how I'm going to move about, hospitals and medical centres


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

This thread has been invaluable for people about to move to Spain, it's certainly had me thinking about requirements in the future when we buy next year..................mainly the medical and transport issues. I think I'm fit for my age commuting on my Brompton bike most days (except today and tomorrow in heavy rain) but it won't be like that forever, so we will be looking at local medical facilities etc.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes, apologies to Horlics although my point stands.


I'm not sure what your point was, but standing or otherwise, I'm not interested.

And please don't struggle through finding glasses, enlarging text, etc. to apologise to me, I ain't interested.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Horlics said:


> I'm not sure what your point was, but standing or otherwise, I'm not interested.
> 
> And please don't struggle through finding glasses, enlarging text, etc. to apologise to me, I ain't interested.


My point was that you were being needlessly offensive, in a minor sort of way.
As you are now

And the remarks about glasses etc. were meant for Lynn, not you.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Horlics said:


> I'd say when choosing a house and if approaching or already of retirement age, be aware of the well-trodden expat path:
> 
> 1. Buy house in countryside or elsewhere where a car is a necessity
> 2. Sell it and buy an apartment in the middle of town near all the facilities
> 3. Sell it and go "home" to die


You make it sound so enticing Horlics, the future looks bright and all that


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> My point was that you were being needlessly offensive, in a minor sort of way.
> As you are now


If you'd managed to resist telling me the post was silly (umm, yes, the smiley - which i rarely use) and slipping into your forum quality assurance role, then I'd have been needlessly offensive in a minor way only once. Your intervention brought about a 2nd. It won't bring about a 3rd because as you might have worked out by now, I always let you have the last word (usually words... paragraph after paragraph of them).



mrypg9 said:


> And the remarks about glasses etc. were meant for Lynn, not you.


Yes, I know.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Roy C said:


> This thread has been invaluable for people about to move to Spain, it's certainly had me thinking about requirements in the future when we buy next year..................mainly the medical and transport issues. I think I'm fit for my age commuting on my Brompton bike most days (except today and tomorrow in heavy rain) but it won't be like that forever, so we will be looking at local medical facilities etc.


Hi Roy,

My well-trodden-path note was a simple 1-2-3 but seriously, I would need the fingers of both hands and the toes of both feet to count the number of people who I know who have reached as far as number 2, i.e. bought a villa out of town and later sold it and bought an apartment in town.

That's two transaction costs at 12% of the purchase price, and where I am people would spend probably 300k+ on the villa and 200K ish on the apartment. 60 grand ish taxes and fees (and agents' fees on the sale too). 

If heading for Spain after the UK retirement age, you'd have to question getting into that whilst there's little prospect of property price inflation to cushion the expenses.

It makes the advice often given about renting worth serious consideration.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Horlick let's be straight- you are 101% correct re renting

But................... If I came across a very reasonably priced house - very much a buyers market both with prices and exchange rate- which still left me with considerable lump,sum and regular income I reckon I could be tempted to give it a go 

Mad maybe I know


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Rabbitcat said:


> Horlick let's be straight- you are 101% correct re renting
> 
> But................... If I came across a very reasonably priced house - very much a buyers market both with prices and exchange rate- which still left me with considerable lump,sum and regular income I reckon I could be tempted to give it a go
> 
> Mad maybe I know


No, not mad at all!

I bought last year. But I'm just over 50 and I bought with the intention of not selling for many years (if ever), and I bought a place that on either long term rental (it would be gone in a week if I put it with an agent) or holiday letting, would give me a yield better than I get from an apartment I rent out in the UK. But that's just a nice-to-know. I use it half of the year and when I am not here it is not rented out.

I am happy with my decision and in my circumstances many of the cons of buying are not an issue.

So no, not everybody who buys is mad.

I was following the details of your trip recently. I hope it's going well and that you find something that suits you. The area you were looking in is very nice.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Jeez (as the Americans would say), I'm quoting my own messages!

Scientific proof has been uncovered and proves I am right (which is a surprise, because my wife says I rarely am). Thanks by PM are not necessary, I unearthed this overlooked but ground-breaking research through hard work and dedication, or I might have Googled it... can't remember.

Anyway, "Moaning" is number 10, which is an error, it is actually much higher, but it's there.

Top 50 'typically British' traits | Metro News



Horlics said:


> Stick around noob, you'll get used to it
> 
> Don't forget, the majority here are British, and the Brits are by and large a whiny bunch, privileged though they are.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Thanks Horlics. 

We are similar ages too , me 52 wifey 45 so game to give a 10 year stint a try and still have time to maybe move on

Wifey has fallen in luuuuurv with Parcent and I must admit its a beautiful village with easy drive to anything you need . Tempting but still much more research needed before wife decides what we have agreed to do...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Horlics said:


> Jeez (as the Americans would say), I'm quoting my own messages!
> 
> Scientific proof has been uncovered and proves I am right (which is a surprise, because my wife says I rarely am). Thanks by PM are not necessary, I unearthed this overlooked but ground-breaking research through hard work and dedication, or I might have Googled it... can't remember.
> 
> ...


A thoroughly conducted piece of research from a well-known learned scientific source, no doubt....

Does this source tell us that Germans have no sense of humour, the Italians like to sing and make love all day long, Orientals are inscrutable, the French go about with strings of onions around their necks? Oh, and always wear those blue and white striped jerseys?

Sorry but you can't get away with that...

No doubt some Brits do moan. Maybe there are things to moan about, like the current Government, the fact that summer lasts for all of two days....
But there is a difference between moaning and expressing a legitimate grievance, even if that grievance could have been avoided with a bit of forethought.
Just as there is a difference between negativity and presentation of facts which may not accord with some people's expectations.
Example: Negativity: the country's going to the dogs. (Could also be classified as a 'moan').
Why negative? Opinion with no supporting facts.
Fact: Unemployment in Spain, although still very high, has decreased in the last few months.

There is a difference, no?


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## MalagaBob (Apr 14, 2015)

musie said:


> Be prepared to be up to your eyes in needless paper work,double standards of what you need ,inept electrical companies when registering your property ,ridiculous humidity get a dehumidifier, oh and the Spanish don't do anything quietly ,speaking ,driving scooters,watching football,close apartment doors if you can buy a house in the middle of nowhere you maybe okay



In this particular thread I was referring to the above post.


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## MalagaBob (Apr 14, 2015)

DunWorkin said:


> We are trying to solve our problems by moving but we cannot sell our house - don't say reduce the price - we have already done that to 'silly price' but stil no takers.


I think youve got the wrong end of the stick as I wasnt referring to your personal situation but one of the replies as I pointed out in my previous post


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## MalagaBob (Apr 14, 2015)

Isobella said:


> Hardly a trivial issue for the person involved. I thought it was very sound advice, I know someone in a similar situation.


Maybe if you read what I have written carefully again you will understand my point.

The OP is nearing a move to Spain and they wanted to helpful info on their proposed move and I quote

" impart a few nuggets of wisdom gleaned through your experiences to those of us who are considering embarking on a new life in Spain, what would they be?"

The first reply was 

"Be prepared to be up to your eyes in needless paper work,double standards of what you need ,inept electrical companies when registering your property ,ridiculous humidity get a dehumidifier, oh and the Spanish don't do anything quietly ,speaking ,driving scooters,watching football,close apartment doors if you can buy a house in the middle of nowhere you maybe okay"


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## MalagaBob (Apr 14, 2015)

Horlics said:


> Stick around noob, you'll get used to it
> 
> Don't forget, the majority here are British, and the Brits are by and large a whiny bunch, privileged though they are.


In my experiences I tend to think your right


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

MalagaBob said:


> Maybe if you read what I have written carefully again you will understand my point.
> 
> The OP is nearing a move to Spain and they wanted to helpful info on their proposed move and I quote
> 
> ...


I don't need/want to read your posts again. Nuggets of wisdom can be positive or negative. Everyone has different experiences and there is no right or wrong. 

If you are intent in analysing everything it is not "your right" it is "you're" !


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

MalagaBob said:


> In this particular thread I was referring to the above post.


I think I might agree with you


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

MalagaBob said:


> In my experiences I tend to think your right


I would disagree. I thought the comment was insulting.
Yes, some people probably shouldn't have been allowed to pass the boarding gate, I'd certainly agree to that.
But to describe people as 'whining' is unpleasant.
If something were to upset me, I wouldn't 'whine'. 
I'd bark, and bite if I had to, as like many women when riled, I can be an awkward *****.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Duplicate post


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> I would disagree. I thought the comment was insulting.
> Yes, some people probably shouldn't have been allowed to pass the boarding gate, I'd certainly agree to that.
> But to describe people as 'whining' is unpleasant.
> If something were to upset me, I wouldn't 'whine'.
> I'd bark, and bite if I had to, as like many women when riled, I can be an awkward *****.


Mary, can I call you Mary?

It was light-hearted. You said it was offensive in a minor way and yet you couldn't let even a minor thing pass your "THAT WARRANTS A RESPONSE" test. Now i see why, you actually thought it was insulting. I didn't mean to insult you Mary, I really didn't.

All I was doing was repeating something that is often seen as a trait of Brits. Yes, stereotypes.... etc, etc.

I can't believe I am getting into this.

That's all folks.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Rabbitcat said:


> Thanks Horlics.
> 
> We are similar ages too , me 52 wifey 45 so game to give a 10 year stint a try and still have time to maybe move on
> 
> Wifey has fallen in luuuuurv with Parcent and I must admit its a beautiful village with easy drive to anything you need . Tempting but still much more research needed before wife decides what we have agreed to do...


I could live in Parcent, but Mrs Horlics likes the coast too much to stray far from it. It seems you shall do as Mrs Rabbicat desires, as I have done what Mrs Horlics desires.

What sort of home are you looking for, villa or apartment, or something else?


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Isobella said:


> I don't need/want to read your posts again. Nuggets of wisdom can be positive or negative. Everyone has different experiences and there is no right or wrong.
> 
> If you are intent in analysing everything it is not "your right" it is "you're" !


I like Isobella. She's almost as arsey as me


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> ...There is a difference, no?


Oh yes, most certainly there is. And you know I know that, but your tendency to pick apart every little thing leads to endless debates.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Horlics said:


> I could live in Parcent, but Mrs Horlics likes the coast too much to stray far from it. It seems you shall do as Mrs Rabbicat desires, as I have done what Mrs Horlics desires.
> 
> What sort of home are you looking for, villa or apartment, or something else?



A decent village/ townhouse

Roof terrace a must and modern kitchen but after that reasonably flexible. There are some corkers throughout the Jalon Valley which have been totally renovated- Grand Designs eat your heart out

We have been in a little village in Turkey this past 9 years so like small village life as long as there's a decent town not too far away for weekly shop

Ps do you know/ like Frigiliana ? Would have been my first choice


Infact if every member of this forum wrote to Mrs Rabbitcat stating Frigiliana was better, in a sort of Downing Street petition , maybe I would get my way??


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

My first choice would be Arcos de la Frontera or somewhere nearby but access isn't so easy and we come and go several times a year.

Second choice would be along the Rio Ebro, but it's just a little too far north for the weather, and again, access isn't easy enough.

But my wife's priority is coastal location so that and easy access meant Javea.

Turns out I love it here. We have a ton of friends both expat and locals despite not being here all year, family find it easy and fun to visit, so it's just about the perfect home away from home.



Rabbitcat said:


> A decent village/ townhouse
> 
> Roof terrace a must and modern kitchen but after that reasonably flexible. There are some corkers throughout the Jalon Valley which have been totally renovated- Grand Designs eat your heart out
> 
> ...


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Rabbitcat said:


> Infact if every member of this forum wrote to Mrs Rabbitcat stating Frigiliana was better, in a sort of Downing Street petition , maybe I would get my way??


For any woman worth her salt, anybody else trying to make her do what she doesn't want to do would only make her more determined.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

I think my biggest nugget of wisdom to pass on is something I figured out just before getting here.... You have to give an address to get all your ID, like your empadronamiento, healthcare, DNI, social security #, bank account, etc. So if at all possible, know where you're going to live before you move to Spain, because it's very difficult to change all the ID later. Or at least have a good ballpark idea so you can settle down to a permanent address quickly. It's not essential, but it has made my life a lot easier. I am really, really, really fortunate that I fell in love with Malaga, which is what I was hoping, and that is where I started out here in Spain.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

We have just eliminated a couple of hamlets near Periana as possibilities due to having to drive to any facilities.

Also my wife retired today at 54 so she can start the preparation for our move, including learning Spanish.


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## MalagaBob (Apr 14, 2015)

Isobella said:


> I don't need/want to read your posts again. Nuggets of wisdom can be positive or negative. Everyone has different experiences and there is no right or wrong.
> 
> If you are intent in analysing everything it is not "your right" it is "you're" !


Isabella did I touch a nerve?

Thanks for the grammar lesson I'll remember that for next time.

That's the beauty of a public forum everyone is entitle to a viewpoint.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

positive/negative = good/bad, which are both found wherever you go in life

Jo xxx


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## MalagaBob (Apr 14, 2015)

Exactly Jo, I agree.

I have noticed after only recently joining this forum that some people like making arguments for the sake of it.

The thing with forums is that some people go off in tangents on points that were not even raised by the OP and lose track of what the OP was about

When someone asks for advice or pearls of wisdom surely a balance view point would be more beneficial to the OP, rather than one filled with negativity?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

MalagaBob said:


> Exactly Jo, I agree.
> 
> I have noticed after only recently joining this forum that some people like making arguments for the sake of it.
> 
> ...


All things, good and bad maybe of interest - should be of interest. There are many things raised that lots of people wouldnt even think about - good and bad!!!!

Jo xxx


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

MalagaBob said:


> Isabella did I touch a nerve?
> 
> Thanks for the grammar lesson I'll remember that for next time.
> 
> That's the beauty of a public forum everyone is entitle to a viewpoint.


OMG I don't think I am taking this forum seriously, or I am having a senior moment. I had to go back and have a look, I thought someone was using my nick:lol::lol:


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