# "¡Residencia! All your questions answered"



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

This was posted on Facebook today by Brits in Spain, a UK government service.

¡Residencia! All your questions answered | Healthcare in Spain

All good stuff, but the bit that concerns me is:



> If you have an A4 size green residency certificate, you have already registered as a resident. *If you registered over 5 years ago, then please re-register as a permanent resident.* Permanent residents have more secured rights for the future, such as the right to access healthcare (please see here for information).


In the comments, various people have questioned the need to re-register as a permanent resident, as they (and I) understood that the A4 green certificate was permanent. Can anyone throw any light on this? Has anyone done it?

Sorry if this has been discussed before!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> This was posted on Facebook today by Brits in Spain, a UK government service.
> 
> ¡Residencia! All your questions answered | Healthcare in Spain
> 
> ...


My husband and I both re-registered as residents "con cáracter permanente" in late 2014, after first registering in February 2007. I knew that it was said not to be necessary, but I just felt better having some kind of official document with "permanente" on it.

The process was extremely straightforward, as it is supposed to be. We went to the Extranjeria with our original tarjeta sized green certificates (which you have to hand back) completed EX18 forms plus a copy, our passports plus a copy of them, and proof of payment of the fee which at that time was €10.70. We were not asked to provide any proof of financial resources nor health cover (nor were we when we registered initially, as it was before those requirements were introduced). Nor were we asked why we had waited longer than 5 years to do it (just hadn't got round to it would have been the answer to that one. Our new tarjeta sized certificates were issued on the spot. 

This was in Torre del Mar, people's experiences in other places may have been different.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

My green A4 "Certificado de Registro de Ciudadano de la Unión" already says "con carácter permanente en España" so I would advise people to have a look at what theirs say because maybe they are already classified as "permanente"
I don't have a card sized document, only A4. Taking into consideration I only ever used it for going on autónomo once a year which is now a digital process, and it can't be used as ID, is it worth me trying to get a card sized document?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> My green A4 "Certificado de Registro de Ciudadano de la Unión" already says "con carácter permanente en España" so I would advise people to have a look at what theirs say because maybe they are already classified as "permanente"
> I don't have a card sized document, only A4. Taking into consideration I only ever used it for going on autónomo once a year which is now a digital process, and it can't be used as ID, is it worth me trying to get a card sized document?


The card sized ones can't be used as ID either, so there would be no advantage there.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> The card sized ones can't be used as ID either, so there would be no advantage there.


That's what I meant Lynn, the document in any form can't be used as ID so I wouldn't gain anything right? Just lose some time getting it, so I won't bother.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> That's what I meant Lynn, the document in any form can't be used as ID so I wouldn't gain anything right? Just lose some time getting it, so I won't bother.


As your certificate already has the "con carácter permanente" wording on it, no I can't see how you would gain anything from getting a new one - just my opinion, of course.

I may not gain anything by having one either, depending on what happens re citizens' rights after Brexit. If it all goes pear shaped and the UK leaves without a deal, maybe even those already registered (as EU citizens) on a permanent basis will have to apply for something different as we won't be EU citizens any longer. Who knows?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

This bit from Alcalaina's link must be seriously misleading, surely? Having been registered for more than 5 years, whether your certificate says "permanente" or not, does not guarantee anybody access to healthcare so far as I am aware.

"Having residencia secures your healthcare for the future. Did you know that when you have been registered as a resident for at least five years, you can then apply for permanent residency? Once you have that, you will always be covered for healthcare in Spain just like a Spanish resident. Please see residency-based healthcare for more information.

There was the announcement recently that the new PSOE Government were going to restore universal healthcare, but so far as I know no details are yet known about exactly who that will cover.

I don't have a Facebook account so I can't do anything to correct what I believe to be an error, but maybe someone who does use Facebook can?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> This bit from Alcalaina's link must be seriously misleading, surely? Having been registered for more than 5 years, whether your certificate says "permanente" or not, does not guarantee anybody access to healthcare so far as I am aware.
> 
> "Having residencia secures your healthcare for the future. Did you know that when you have been registered as a resident for at least five years, you can then apply for permanent residency? Once you have that, you will always be covered for healthcare in Spain just like a Spanish resident. Please see residency-based healthcare for more information.
> 
> ...


Great minds & all that.

I did exactly that a few minutes ago!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Just checked my A4 certificate (issued in 2008) and it says "residente comunitario", the word "permanente" doesn't appear anywhere. So I think I will look into getting permanent residency, just to be on the safe side.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> Just checked my A4 certificate (issued in 2008) and it says "residente comunitario", the word "permanente" doesn't appear anywhere. So I think I will look into getting permanent residency, just to be on the safe side.


Thanks, I could no longer check the wording on mine (having had to hand it back!), but I am pretty sure that's what mine said too.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I must have got mine early on . They probably stopped giving permanent ones out. I did think it strange at the time and questioned it, but they waved me away saying I would never have to go and renew it.
In case anyone wants to check it says "carácter permanente" towards the end of the first paragraph that begins *CERTIFICA*... Here's an example
Certificado de Residencia Lanzarote | Lanzarote Information


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> Just checked my A4 certificate (issued in 2008) and it says "residente comunitario", the word "permanente" doesn't appear anywhere. So I think I will look into getting permanent residency, just to be on the safe side.


We are applying for ours next March


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

My first certificate was an A4 sheet (not permanent), but when I went to "sign off" the register in 2013, they told me that because I had the right to a permanent certificate, I should get that and kep it for when I returned to Spain.

I now know that this was technically incorrect, but I now have a card sized paper.

I think that the reference to health care for permanent residents is probably coming from some early expectations of Brexit agreements where those proving long term residency in a member country may have had more rights than "newcomers"... but that of course is old history now... potentially...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> We are applying for ours next March


Mine doesn't say 'permanente' either.

We're going to traipse over to the extranjería to get them soon, just to be on the safe side, like Alcalaina!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> Great minds & all that.
> 
> I did exactly that a few minutes ago!


When I posted my comment I was also given the option of sending it as a message, so I did.

It was seen yesterday evening, but as yet, no response.


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> My husband and I both re-registered as residents "con cáracter permanente" in late 2014, after first registering in February 2007. I knew that it was said not to be necessary, but I just felt better having some kind of official document with "permanente" on it.
> 
> The process was extremely straightforward, as it is supposed to be. We went to the Extranjeria with our original tarjeta sized green certificates (which you have to hand back) completed EX18 forms plus a copy, our passports plus a copy of them, and proof of payment of the fee which at that time was €10.70. We were not asked to provide any proof of financial resources nor health cover (nor were we when we registered initially, as it was before those requirements were introduced). Nor were we asked why we had waited longer than 5 years to do it (just hadn't got round to it would have been the answer to that one. Our new tarjeta sized certificates were issued on the spot.
> 
> This was in Torre del Mar, people's experiences in other places may have been different.


Could you please tell me how and where you pay the fee in advance of visiting the Extranjeria? I have downloaded Form EX-18 and I can´t see any mention on that about payment. Also, how do you show proof that you have been a resident in Spain for more than five years? Is the original A4 green certificate sufficient proof (mine was issued in 2008!)?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

The Skipper said:


> Could you please tell me how and where you pay the fee in advance of visiting the Extranjeria? I have downloaded Form EX-18 and I can´t see any mention on that about payment. Also, how do you show proof that you have been a resident in Spain for more than five years? Is the original A4 green certificate sufficient proof (mine was issued in 2008!)?


You'd need to download the Modelo 790 form, print off 3 copies of it (one for the extranjeria, one for the bank and one for you to keep, the bank will stamp all 3 copies as receipt of payment and give two of them back to you). They say photocopies are not acceptable which means completing the same form 3 times, but how they can tell, I don't know. The tricky bit is finding the right Modelo 790 as there are a few of them! I always just go to the nearest bank to our Extranjeria office. Perhaps your Extranjeria still gives out copies of the Modelo 790 - ours used to, but a few years ago they stopped doing that and just gave you a slip of paper showing where to download it from, or said you could get them from the photocopy shop next door. And indeed you can - but only if you also pay them to complete the EX18 for you, for which they charge €3 per person!

Yes, your original A4 green certificate will be accepted as proof of your residence in Spain for over 5 years.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

It appears that no-one responds to questions on the FB page


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> It appears that no-one responds to questions on the FB page


No, but I see they've reposted the information today.

Following the links from the post, when they say permanent residency gives you access to healthcare, this is not quite the case: 



> If you have permanent residency in Spain you *could be* entitled to healthcare on the same basis as a Spanish national. You must not have entitlement to healthcare through any other means (e.g. linked to a UK state pension or benefit). For more information please read here. The INSS are likely to request that you are not covered by the UK for healthcare. The document you need is called Legislation Letter and can be requested from the Overseas Healthcare Team on +44 191 218 1999, or by email at [email protected].
> 
> You can access the application form at this link. However, you will need to apply in person at your local INSS office (take the above documentation along with your residency, padrón and passports and photocopies of each one). Please consult the INSS directly for the full list of requirements to support your application.


The application form, which is in Spanish (naturally) is here:

http://www.seg-social.es/prdi00/groups/public/documents/binario/46493.pdf


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> No, but I see they've reposted the information today.
> 
> Following the links from the post, when they say permanent residency gives you access to healthcare, this is not quite the case:
> 
> ...


Could be is OK I guess. I would imagine that is for those 'sin recursos'.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> No, but I see they've reposted the information today.
> 
> Following the links from the post, when they say permanent residency gives you access to healthcare, this is not quite the case:
> 
> ...





xabiachica said:


> Could be is OK I guess. I would imagine that is for those 'sin recursos'.





Having done a bit of research apparently the Document they quote that you need 



> The document you need is called Legislation Letter and can be requested from the Overseas Healthcare Team on +44 191 218 1999, or by email at [email protected].





> UPDATE 10/08/2016
> 
> The letter is no longer available from the Overseas Team. There is now a new system in place both for the application to be made from the INSS offices. We are in touch with the INSS healthcare head office and the HMRC in the UK. We will clarify as soon as we receive full information.
> 
> ...





> Update March 2017. The letter is now being provided in English and Spanish for those enttiled to free healthcare under the ‘resident pre April 2012 law’. Contact the:



BUT

It’s from
/SNIP removed link to competing forum/

I’ve searched the overseas healthcare team web site and can find nothing


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

These British government officials do like to make things straightforward, don't they! Anyone would think the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing ...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> Having done a bit of research apparently the Document they quote that you need
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It used to be known as the 'Newcastle letter'. More recently, the 'legislation letter' - not sure what it's called now, though you can still get it.


The Overseas healthcare team know all about it if you call & ask them for it. People get it now if they need to register for healthcare sin recursos.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> It used to be known as the 'Newcastle letter'. More recently, the 'legislation letter' - not sure what it's called now, though you can still get it.
> 
> 
> The Overseas healthcare team know all about it if you call & ask them for it. People get it now if they need to register for healthcare sin recursos.


Yep agree, my point was its only for those here pre 2012 changes?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> Yep agree, my point was its only for those here pre 2012 changes?


I don't know. I _think_ that if you're a perm resident _sin recursos_ now you are entitled to healthcare, regardless of the 2012 cut off.

That doesn't mean all perm residents are entitled to healthcare though. 

ATM I can't find how low an income has to be for one to be considered _sin recursos_, but it's pretty low. 

I'll keep looking & post if I find it, unless someone else finds it first


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I don't know. I _think_ that if you're a perm resident _sin recursos_ now you are entitled to healthcare, regardless of the 2012 cut off.
> 
> That doesn't mean all perm residents are entitled to healthcare though.
> 
> ...


It was €6,000 a year in 2011 when we applied. That's in Andalucia, might be different in other regions.


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