# London - please share your experience with me!



## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

Hi everyone,

After carefully monitoring all threads and posts on this site for about a month now, I am still uncertain whether I should make a move to London. So, I am asking everyone who has lived in London at one point or another please share your experiences with me. I just want to hear what you liked about the place, what you didn't like, what surprised you most, anything really to give me some ideas, otherwise I just can't make up my mind. Your input is very much appreciated!!!! Thank you!!:clap2::clap2::clap2:


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## rifleman (Jun 24, 2011)

The only question you need to ask is whether you like cities. If you do then you ought to enjoy London. It has everything any world city has, coupled with a diversity of people greater than any other place on earth.
I am a 53 year old Londoner and, whilst I have spent some years living outside of the UK, most of my life has been spent here. Still I have barely begun to explore my home town.
If you don't like cities and ethnic/cultural diversity best to stay away.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

rifleman said:


> The only question you need to ask is whether you like cities. If you do then you ought to enjoy London. It has everything any world city has, coupled with a diversity of people greater than any other place on earth.
> I am a 53 year old Londoner and, whilst I have spent some years living outside of the UK, most of my life has been spent here. Still I have barely begun to explore my home town.
> If you don't like cities and ethnic/cultural diversity best to stay away.


I love cities, and actually really love London. I have travelled around and visited London twice for week-long trips each time. It just felt like the right place for me. I loved the vibe. But I just don't want to jump into something simply because I fell in love with it, after all I am not a teenager anymore and have to be a little be more level-headed here, so that is why I am asking people for input. Also, it looks like you are an expat in Malaysia, so something about London didn't jive with you, right?


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## rifleman (Jun 24, 2011)

My status is misleading. My wife is Malaysian. We visit often and will move there when I retire.
I live and work in London.

So what is it you want to know about London from others, especially if you have been twice and loved it?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

> I love cities, and actually really love London. I have travelled around and visited London twice for week-long trips each time. It just felt like the right place for me.



Obviously, visiting someplace on holiday and living there are 2 different things, but I think the best experience is your own and you seem to have felt comfortable in London and you like cities so I would rely on your own feelings.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

rifleman said:


> My status is misleading. My wife is Malaysian. We visit often and will move there when I retire.
> I live and work in London.
> 
> So what is it you want to know about London from others, especially if you have been twice and loved it?


Hi, thanks for clarifying your status. I actually don't quite know what it is that I am looking to hear from others, because basically I am looking for any information to add to my own experience of visiting London to make a right decision. I just met a woman from London a couple of days ago who left it because she thought people were just rude. Her and her family relocated to Chicago. She is British and was saying how nice everyone here is.. I was a bit taken back by this, as I didn't feel this way when I visited London, I thought everyone was friendly and definitely not rude, but then again, I only visited for 2 weeks and as Nyclon is pointing out this is a completely different thing than living in a place... So, what I am looking for are any sentiments people have about London... good, bad, strange, funny.. I just want to hear more. Thanks!


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

nyclon said:


> Obviously, visiting someplace on holiday and living there are 2 different things, but I think the best experience is your own and you seem to have felt comfortable in London and you like cities so I would rely on your own feelings.


Thanks for the answer. The problem with my own feelings is that they lie  sometimes, so I cannot fully rely on them


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## rifleman (Jun 24, 2011)

chicago said:


> Hi, thanks for clarifying your status. I actually don't quite know what it is that I am looking to hear from others, because basically I am looking for any information to add to my own experience of visiting London to make a right decision. I just met a woman from London a couple of days ago who left it because she thought people were just rude. Her and her family relocated to Chicago. She is British and was saying how nice everyone here is.. I was a bit taken back by this, as I didn't feel this way when I visited London, I thought everyone was friendly and definitely not rude, but then again, I only visited for 2 weeks and as Nyclon is pointing out this is a completely different thing than living in a place... So, what I am looking for are any sentiments people have about London... good, bad, strange, funny.. I just want to hear more. Thanks!


Well it is certainly true that London can seem an unfriendly place and if you don't "get" it you would consider people rude in some ways. Millions of people from all over the world live & work here. When you travel around London most people are in a hurry, don't talk to strangers, and generally aren't interested in being friendly. Meet those same people in a social context and you'll normally find them as friendly as anyone else.
Really though there is no substitute for trying it for yourself. I suppose it is a bit like Marmite, you either love it or hate it.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

rifleman said:


> Well it is certainly true that London can seem an unfriendly place and if you don't "get" it you would consider people rude in some ways. Millions of people from all over the world live & work here. When you travel around London most people are in a hurry, don't talk to strangers, and generally aren't interested in being friendly. Meet those same people in a social context and you'll normally find them as friendly as anyone else.
> Really though there is no substitute for trying it for yourself. I suppose it is a bit like Marmite, you either love it or hate it.



Ok thanks, fair enough. But I have no idea what Marmite is.. Just to sum up everything I learned from reading posts on this forum about London:


Pros:

Lots of history, culture
Very international and diverse
Good food (ok, comparing to US here 
Green grass/parks everywhere
Cheap air travel to Europe

Cons:

Too expensive
People are rude/weird, etc.
Government is not good enough  
Teenagers are the worst in the world  (have no idea why this should matter and how this affects everyone, can anyone explain please?)
Claustrophobic, not enough space for everyone, apartments are tiny
Too much bureaucracy (my friend could not get internet in his apt. for over a month)
Lack of good dentistry
Drinking
Bad weather
Jobs are hard to get


So, from this list the ones I am mostly concerned with are: expensive, bureaucracy, drinking culture, lack of good dentistry. If anyone has anything to add or dispute please let me know. I would love to hear from you! Thanks!


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

Also, forgot to mention lack of customer service in the Cons department...Is that really true?


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## Moving2UK (Oct 24, 2011)

Hi. My family is new to the uk from the us, so I have limited experience, but here are my thoughts so far. In the US it bugged me that service reps often just plain didn't bother offering service...didn't care or put much effort into helping find solutions to whatever I needed help with. In the UK in find that I get the service I need but often in a rushed/impatient and sometimes unfriendly way. That being said, some customer reps have been very friendly and helpful, as I'm assuming they can tell I'm out of place and don't know the ropes yet. At least they're empathetic, even if out of pity. 

Hope this helps!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

> Really though there is no substitute for trying it for yourself. I suppose it is a bit like Marmite, you either love it or hate it.


This, this, this!!!

If it helps, substitute Brussel Sprouts for Marmite. You get the picture. This has been my experience with people that have moved to London for work. Either they settle in quickly or it just doesn't click with them for whatever reason and they are back to the US as soon as their employer allows.

You've made a list of _other_ people's pros and cons and come up with more cons. Is that going to make up your mind for you?

The 1st 4 on the con list you can probably say about 10 different big cities in 10 different countries. The last has to do with the world economy, not London specifically. 

Yes, London is expensive but as you've been here you know that and yes it will probably take you at least a month to get internet service. I have a perfectly good dentist, are there bad ones, yes, just like anywhere. And yes, drinking is part of the culture (you've heard of pubs?) but that doesn't mean there are drunks hanging around on every street corner at all times of the day. 

If you are having such a hard time making up your mind, maybe that is your answer.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

> If you are having such a hard time making up your mind, maybe that is your answer.


Fair enough, but I just wanted to hear about other people's experiences, that's all. I have moved a lot in life already and the moves went into 2 categories: "best ever," "worst ever," although there were no red flags prior to the moves. All I wanted when I made this list of pros and cons, which is indeed not mine, but the one collected from all the posts here, was to get some more feedback on them. That's all. Wasn't trying to be all whiny or have people convince me of anything (although I did that in my other post I realize) and yes big thanks to those who replied!


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2011)

Wife & I lived in London for 3 years and honestly, I didn't appreciate the experience like I should have. We adjusted after a few months, but I kept thinking in the back of my mind that life was somehow "better" back home in the US. Well, we've been back in the US for almost 3 years now, I miss London terribly and I couldn't have been more wrong. Life in London and the UK is "different" for sure but in my opinion, there's no finer city in the world. Beautiful old buildings everywhere, great Asian food, always something to do, culture, great shopping... I don't know, the city just always has this magic in the air. It's kind of hard to explain.

The downsides are obvious: crowds everywhere, expensive, people aren't too friendly, things don't always run according to schedule. But you are going to find that in any major city. My advice to you is if you like big city life and can find a job before you make the move, then go for it! I would give anything to go back!


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

BobbyM said:


> Wife & I lived in London for 3 years and honestly, I didn't appreciate the experience like I should have. We adjusted after a few months, but I kept thinking in the back of my mind that life was somehow "better" back home in the US. Well, we've been back in the US for almost 3 years now, I miss London terribly and I couldn't have been more wrong. Life in London and the UK is "different" for sure but in my opinion, there's no finer city in the world. Beautiful old buildings everywhere, great Asian food, always something to do, culture, great shopping... I don't know, the city just always has this magic in the air. It's kind of hard to explain.
> 
> The downsides are obvious: crowds everywhere, expensive, people aren't too friendly, things don't always run according to schedule. But you are going to find that in any major city. My advice to you is if you like big city life and can find a job before you make the move, then go for it! I would give anything to go back!


Wow, thank you so much for your response! This is exactly what I was hoping to read. I felt the same way you did every time I visited London, like its magical in some way and I desperately wanted to just stay there for good right there and then never to come back to US, although I do like my life in US very much. 

So, I think we are going to move, my husband does have a job offer there, so we just need to push ourselves to do this move. I am a big chicken and scared to move myself and our family (we have a baby) to a land we only visited a couple of times, but I think this just has to happen. I cannot get London off my mind and neither can my husband I think. Just hope it all goes smoothly for my child with schools and all and my husband with his job. And we are not planning to go right away, we'll wait til Olympics are over to avoid any possible craziness. I just don't think I want to go through life thinking we should have.. so maybe we should.. Thank you so much for your honest answer! Will have to work on logistics now..


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## rifleman (Jun 24, 2011)

chicago said:


> Wow, thank you so much for your response! This is exactly what I was hoping to read. I felt the same way you did every time I visited London, like its magical in some way and I desperately wanted to just stay there for good right there and then never to come back to US, although I do like my life in US very much.
> 
> So, I think we are going to move, my husband does have a job offer there, so we just need to push ourselves to do this move. I am a big chicken and scared to move myself and our family (we have a baby) to a land we only visited a couple of times, but I think this just has to happen. I cannot get London off my mind and neither can my husband I think. Just hope it all goes smoothly for my child with schools and all and my husband with his job. And we are not planning to go right away, we'll wait til Olympics are over to avoid any possible craziness. I just don't think I want to go through life thinking we should have.. so maybe we should.. Thank you so much for your honest answer! Will have to work on logistics now..


Well don't be chicken. The previous poster summed it up nicely.
I estimate that at least 50% of our friends here are Expats, many of them end up wanting to stay here permanenty.


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2011)

chicago said:


> Wow, thank you so much for your response! This is exactly what I was hoping to read. I felt the same way you did every time I visited London, like its magical in some way and I desperately wanted to just stay there for good right there and then never to come back to US, although I do like my life in US very much.
> 
> So, I think we are going to move, my husband does have a job offer there, so we just need to push ourselves to do this move. I am a big chicken and scared to move myself and our family (we have a baby) to a land we only visited a couple of times, but I think this just has to happen. I cannot get London off my mind and neither can my husband I think. Just hope it all goes smoothly for my child with schools and all and my husband with his job. And we are not planning to go right away, we'll wait til Olympics are over to avoid any possible craziness. I just don't think I want to go through life thinking we should have.. so maybe we should.. Thank you so much for your honest answer! Will have to work on logistics now..


Good luck to you and your family! We've tried to go back ourselves but can't get more than a phone interview. I think we'll try again in a year or two when (hopefully) the economy is better in the UK and they relax their immigration/work permit laws. Again, hopefully.


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## manny.j (Dec 4, 2011)

BobbyM said:


> Good luck to you and your family! We've tried to go back ourselves but can't get more than a phone interview. I think we'll try again in a year or two when (hopefully) the economy is better in the UK and they relax their immigration/work permit laws. Again, hopefully.


Unfortunately its very unlikely the immigration or work permit laws will relax at least for the next several years. UK economy, although better than many other European countries, is still in a bad state. Hopefully, the tough austerity measures will reduce the Govt. deficit, which will again take many years to bring under control.

My wife and I are moving back to the UK for personal reasons sometime early next year and I am forced to leave my job here otherwise I love living in the USA, where I find people's approach to life very optimistic.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

BobbyM said:


> Good luck to you and your family! We've tried to go back ourselves but can't get more than a phone interview. I think we'll try again in a year or two when (hopefully) the economy is better in the UK and they relax their immigration/work permit laws. Again, hopefully.


I hope it works out for you and all of us to do what we like and live where we chose. Its not easy, but kind of fun to dream and have something to look forward to, although frustrating at times. I hope Europe works out its financial kinks soon and we avoid another crisis.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

rifleman said:


> Well don't be chicken. The previous poster summed it up nicely.
> I estimate that at least 50% of our friends here are Expats, many of them end up wanting to stay here permanenty.


Thanks RIfleman!


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

I am really encouraged by everyone's posts. So, according to rightmove it appears that to rent an ok 4-bedroom apartment in zone 2 would be around 600-700 pounds per week, does that sound about right? Would there be any way to get something in zone 1 for a similar price? Also, what areas would be fun, but also good for schools? I was thinking Shoreditch, Islington and maybe south of the Tower Bridge. Canary Wharf seemed a bit sterile when we visited, although it looks like you get the most bang for your buck when it comes to apartment size/quality there. Am I sort of on the right track here, or missing out something?


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## rifleman (Jun 24, 2011)

chicago said:


> I am really encouraged by everyone's posts. So, according to rightmove it appears that to rent an ok 4-bedroom apartment in zone 2 would be around 600-700 pounds, does that sound about right? Would there be any way to get something in zone 1 for a similar price? Also, what areas would be fun, but also good for schools? I was thinking Shoreditch, Islington and maybe south of the Tower Bridge. Canary Wharf seemed a bit sterile when we visited, although it looks like you get the most bang for your buck when it comes to apartment size/quality there. Am I sort of on the right track here, or missing out something?


Sounds like you are on the right track to me.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

chicago said:


> I am really encouraged by everyone's posts. So, according to rightmove it appears that to rent an ok 4-bedroom apartment in zone 2 would be around 600-700 pounds per week, does that sound about right? Would there be any way to get something in zone 1 for a similar price? Also, what areas would be fun, but also good for schools? I was thinking Shoreditch, Islington and maybe south of the Tower Bridge. Canary Wharf seemed a bit sterile when we visited, although it looks like you get the most bang for your buck when it comes to apartment size/quality there. Am I sort of on the right track here, or missing out something?


Simply put, £600-700/week will not be sufficient to cover the rent for a 4 bedroom property in Zone 1. That budget might get you an ok 2 bedroom in some areas of Zone 1. I don't think you'll find a huge selection in that price range in Zone 2 but you should be able to find something.

I agree with you assessment of Canary Wharf although some people are attracted to the new construction with all the mod cons. Islington is lovely and family oriented but well out of the reach of your budget. Shoreditch is young, hip and edgy with lots of nightlife and all that goes along with it so maybe not what you're looking for as a young family. If by south of Tower Bridge you mean Bermondsey, it's a transitioning neighborhood which is starting to attract some nice restaurants and shops but it is still VERY rough around the edges. If you are talking about the Butler's Wharf area, you don't have the budget for it.

London is 659 square miles so there is lots of ground to cover. Perhaps you should start with researching areas in Zone 2 and possibly 3 that are along the tube line on which you will be commuting.

This will help with neighborhood research:

UK house prices, property, crime, local neighbourhood & schools | UpMyStreet


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

nyclon said:


> Simply put, £600-700/week will not be sufficient to cover the rent for a 4 bedroom property in Zone 1. That budget might get you an ok 2 bedroom in some areas of Zone 1. I don't think you'll find a huge selection in that price range in Zone 2 but you should be able to find something.
> 
> I agree with you assessment of Canary Wharf although some people are attracted to the new construction with all the mod cons. Islington is lovely and family oriented but well out of the reach of your budget. Shoreditch is young, hip and edgy with lots of nightlife and all that goes along with it so maybe not what you're looking for as a young family. If by south of Tower Bridge you mean Bermondsey, it's a transitioning neighborhood which is starting to attract some nice restaurants and shops but it is still VERY rough around the edges. If you are talking about the Butler's Wharf area, you don't have the budget for it.
> 
> ...



Ok, thanks, will have to think of some other neighborhoods then. Any ideas anyone? Also, how much does it cost to move your apartment within London by a moving company? And is it easy to arrange? I am thinking that if we can't swing a decent 4-bedroom, maybe do a 3-bed instead for the first year or two. Also, how much do people normally spend in London on rent/mortgage? I know its about 30-40% of your salary here. Thanks.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Arranging a move within London is pretty much no different than in the US. You call a few places and they come out and give you estimates and you book a day. It depends on how far your move is and how much you are going to pack yourself or have the moving company pack. We moved from 1 part of the neighborhood to another and had them pack the kitchen and other breakables and packed the rest ourselves. It was around £1000. We used a "grown up" moving company for lack of a better description because we have decent furniture but it was a very short move. Or you could find a "man with a van" type person who would probably be much more economical.

As far as other ideas for areas to live, you really need to give a few parameters like what tube line or lines work for you. Schools are probably important so you should start looking at Ofsted reports.

I have never heard of any statistics on the percentage of salary that goes towards rent. I imagine it's not useful or reliable information as you have lots of young professionals who flat share out of necessity, the disparity in rents between Zone 1 and Zone 5 coupled with the disparity in salaries (financial professionals vs administrative jobs) and the fact that London is 659 square miles.

***Edited to add:

Regarding percentage of salary used towards rent; a lot of young professionals are willing to flat share and spend as little of their salary towards rent as possible, in order to travel during the 4 weeks they are entitled to for vacation.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

nyclon said:


> Arranging a move within London is pretty much no different than in the US. You call a few places and they come out and give you estimates and you book a day. It depends on how far your move is and how much you are going to pack yourself or have the moving company pack. We moved from 1 part of the neighborhood to another and had them pack the kitchen and other breakables and packed the rest ourselves. It was around £1000. We used a "grown up" moving company for lack of a better description because we have decent furniture but it was a very short move. Or you could find a "man with a van" type person who would probably be much more economical.
> 
> As far as other ideas for areas to live, you really need to give a few parameters like what tube line or lines work for you. Schools are probably important so you should start looking at Ofsted reports.
> 
> ...


 Your posting is very helpful. Thank you. I am now wondering how to plow strategically through this information on ofsted regarding schools.. Is there some universal ranking chart of schools in London? I found something on bbc website, not sure if that's the one.. Also, trying to figure out whether should pay more in rent and live close to a good state school to qualify for free admission there or to live wherever and pay for a public school? What do people normally do?

Also forgot to mention that living somewhere close to Jubilee line would be nice. Hubby will be working either in the Canary wharf or the City, depending on what job he decides to take.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

chicago said:


> Your posting is very helpful. Thank you. I am now wondering how to plow strategically through this information on ofsted regarding schools.. Is there some universal ranking chart of schools in London? I found something on bbc website, not sure if that's the one.. Also, trying to figure out whether should pay more in rent and live close to a good state school to qualify for free admission there or to live wherever and pay for a public school? What do people normally do?
> 
> Also forgot to mention that living somewhere close to Jubilee line would be nice. Hubby will be working either in the Canary wharf or the City, depending on what job he decides to take.


I can't give you a lot of input on schools, but I can tell you that living in the catchment area of a good school will not guarantee your child a placement in that school. As you can imagine, everyone wants their kids to go to good schools so they are often oversubscribed and if your child doesn't get in then he or she will be offered a place at another school. 

The Jubilee Line is perfect if you work in Canary Wharf but not at all convenient (you would have to change tube lines at some point making commuting a potential nightmare) if working in the City.

Here is a link to a tube map:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/standard-tube-map.pdf


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

> Is there some universal ranking chart of schools in London?


I don't know about this but I came across this chart (click on the link for the pdf in the article) in the paper a couple of days ago and it may provide some useful information for you:

At-a-glance guide to London's Sats results | News


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

nyclon said:


> I don't know about this but I came across this chart (click on the link for the pdf in the article) in the paper a couple of days ago and it may provide some useful information for you:
> 
> At-a-glance guide to London's Sats results | News


There is a school ranking announced by DFE (Dept for Education) each year. Primary performance tables came out this week:
Performance Tables - The Department for Education

Table nyclon quotes is an extract for London. Mine covers whole of England.

Like all these statistics, you should exercise caution. Test results alone don't give the whole picture. Often how a school does with its intake of children throughout their time with it gives a more balanced view. Clearly a school in middle-class suburb will perform better in tests than an inner city school with a high proportion of children who speak English as additional language, but it's remarkable how some such schools achieve great resuts, while some suburban schools just coast along year after year without concerted efforts to make a good school better.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

Joppa said:


> There is a school ranking announced by DFE (Dept for Education) each year. Primary performance tables came out this week:
> Performance Tables - The Department for Education
> 
> Table nyclon quotes is an extract for London. Mine covers whole of England.
> ...


Thanks, you guys are awesome!! I am in the process of researching all of this information right now. Once I have more questions, I will be sure to post. In the interim, if anyone has any other suggestions/ideas/thoughts I will be checking this thread periodically. Thank you for your help!


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## wynos25 (Apr 19, 2009)

rifleman said:


> Well it is certainly true that London can seem an unfriendly place and if you don't "get" it you would consider people rude in some ways. Millions of people from all over the world live & work here. When you travel around London most people are in a hurry, don't talk to strangers, and generally aren't interested in being friendly. Meet those same people in a social context and you'll normally find them as friendly as anyone else.
> Really though there is no substitute for trying it for yourself. I suppose it is a bit like Marmite, you either love it or hate it.


Hi, if you are looking for a change, then London will definitely offer that to you than the states. I have been here a year now from Los Angeles, and can understand the perception of rudeness, but true to the other responders statement, I find people in London have tunnel vision and want to get home or to their favorite pub. I haven't really found a truely rude. I find people here to be much more genuine than a lot of people from the states, but again, you're in the mid-west, so your experiences could be different that mine growing up on the west coast. It is expensive to live here, but depending on your lifestyle, that can me adjusted. Space, yes, it is an issue, but I've learned to adapt and minimize. It has also taught me that we live in more excess than really necessary. I had a 3600 sq ft house. Now I'm down to maybe 800 and I'm doing fine. I'm 40 and decided to make the change, so go for it.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

wynos25 said:


> Hi, if you are looking for a change, then London will definitely offer that to you than the states. I have been here a year now from Los Angeles, and can understand the perception of rudeness, but true to the other responders statement, I find people in London have tunnel vision and want to get home or to their favorite pub. I haven't really found a truely rude. I find people here to be much more genuine than a lot of people from the states, but again, you're in the mid-west, so your experiences could be different that mine growing up on the west coast. It is expensive to live here, but depending on your lifestyle, that can me adjusted. Space, yes, it is an issue, but I've learned to adapt and minimize. It has also taught me that we live in more excess than really necessary. I had a 3600 sq ft house. Now I'm down to maybe 800 and I'm doing fine. I'm 40 and decided to make the change, so go for it.


Thank you, this is very encouraging. I am really looking for a change. I really don't care for the fake friendliness here and can do without it very well. I guess maybe I can give up some living space too.. The only issue is that I do need a decent studio space, as I am an artist and it has to be at home, cause I don't want to waste money on a babysitter all the time. Therefore my biggest issue is finding a suitable space to live/work in, otherwise, I am not an extravagant person who absolutely needs a ton of bedrooms. I can also manage on very little, but don't want to limit my child's education options and would like to give him the very best. Its a lot that goes into the equation, otherwise I would be on the plane tomorrow, but I think I am starting to figure it out little by little with everyone's help and maybe my move will happen sooner than later


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## chinnae (Dec 19, 2011)

I just want to know the process of applying for hsmp visa. I'm pursuing masters in IT in India.My course wil get over by may 2012. I just need to know how to apply for hsmp for me to work in UK.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

chinnae said:


> I just want to know the process of applying for hsmp visa. I'm pursuing masters in IT in India.My course wil get over by may 2012. I just need to know how to apply for hsmp for me to work in UK.


The HSMP no longer exists. In order to work in the UK you must be sponsored by an employer.


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## chinnae (Dec 19, 2011)

*Hsmp*



nyclon said:


> The HSMP no longer exists. In order to work in the UK you must be sponsored by an employer.


Wel, thank tou for the reply.
But i heard it from one of my friend who is working in UK related to this stuff.
She sed dat der r bout 1000 hsmp visa openings in 2011.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

chinnae said:


> Wel, thank tou for the reply.
> But i heard it from one of my friend who is working in UK related to this stuff.
> She sed dat der r bout 1000 hsmp visa openings in 2011.




Please do not use text speak.. it is against the forum rules and will lead to your posts being deleted.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

chinnae said:


> Wel, thank tou for the reply.
> But i heard it from one of my friend who is working in UK related to this stuff.
> She sed dat der r bout 1000 hsmp visa openings in 2011.


Your friend is wrong.

Here is a link to the UKBA website which very clearly states in the first line that HSMP is closed:

UK Border Agency | Highly Skilled Migrant Programme


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

nyclon said:


> Your friend is wrong.
> 
> Here is a link to the UKBA website which very clearly states in the first line that HSMP is closed:
> 
> UK Border Agency | Highly Skilled Migrant Programme




One wonders why the question was asked when a friend already provided the answer.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

MaidenScotland said:


> One wonders why the question was asked when a friend already provided the answer.


Good point. Why did I bother to answer?:confused2:


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## chinnae (Dec 19, 2011)

MaidenScotland said:


> Please do not use text speak.. it is against the forum rules and will lead to your posts being deleted.


oh well. ok..


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

nyclon said:


> I don't know about this but I came across this chart (click on the link for the pdf in the article) in the paper a couple of days ago and it may provide some useful information for you:
> 
> At-a-glance guide to London's Sats results | News


I just noticed this posting. Thanks a lot!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

chicago said:


> I just noticed this posting. Thanks a lot!


Your welcome.


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## jorgon (Dec 19, 2011)

Hi Chicago

I lived in London all my life (a long time so far) and there is one aspect to it not yet mentioned. London is like a collection of "villages". You might work in one village, but usually you live in another. And you commute between the two villages.

The best work/life balance is to find the two villages that you like best. Usually transport between the two is easy - London probably has one of the best transport systems in the world - but you will need to check the commute before deciding where to live, to make sure you can put up with it everyday. An mp3 player and something to read will help during the commute.

The point is that you will have two lives - one at work, and one in the evenings and at weekends. I started off living in central London for both my villages and this suited me at that time - lots to do and an exciting life but the neighbours were transient. But as I got older it was nice to move to the suburbs and get a garden, get friendly with the neighbours, become known in the local shops and restaurants etc. There was a one hour commute into town but a better work/life balance at that time for me. There are many many wonderful suburbs in Greater London that you could consider to achieve that better work/life balance.

One great thing about London is that it's a perfect start place for travelling around Europe and beyond. But as you are probably aware the weather in London is not always good. Eventually this aspect, plus family reasons caused my move to Australia.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

jorgon said:


> Hi Chicago
> 
> I lived in London all my life (a long time so far) and there is one aspect to it not yet mentioned. London is like a collection of "villages". You might work in one village, but usually you live in another. And you commute between the two villages.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing your experience! I appreciate it. Perhaps most big cities are like this - composition of numerous villages. Also, I think I understand what you mean by the transient neighbors. It bugs me a little bit here too. Maybe that's the nature of the world now, everyone is so mobile and moving around, constantly shopping for a perfect place to call home, etc. 

I have only been to central London, so that's all I have seen and liked. Should probably check out the burbs. Here, in US, I don't really care for the suburbs, simply because its like being "neither here nor there," meaning you are not really in the country and you are not really in the city, plus you get primarily chain restaurants and chain coffee shops. Maybe London suburbs are different. I think we would like to stay in central London, at least in the beginning. If we don't like it, we can move back to US or explore other options. Commuting for too long is something I really would like to avoid as much as possible and it would really bug me I think to have to sit on a train for a long period of time. But, the tube in London was very pleasant though, much more so than the L here. This is probably different during rush hours.

Anyway, I hope you are liking Australia. I have never been there, but from what I've seen on TV it reminds me a bit of US. I am sure the weather is great for outdoor activities there. I am weird though, I love rain and fog and all that, so the weather in London really does not scare me a tiny bit thus far.


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## andreauk2009 (Nov 21, 2011)

I can contribute with my little 2 cents as an expat, because it's just two years and half I live in UK but not live in London.

Pros:

Lots of history, culture (yes Roman did a good job initally, and Brits continued on it. But it mostly depends what side of the history and culture you are interested into).
Cosmopolitan 
Decent food (compared to Italy). You can't really eat quality food unless you don't go in very expensive restaurant which barely you can afford unless you don't earn £5k a month. In the countryside is different and good places are cheaper. In such places what it really costs is wine.

Green grass/parks everywhere. Very true and this is something that really make you feel better on lunch time and during summer when you can eat out.

Cheap air travel to Europe. True if you don't travel on bank holidays.


Cons:

Too expensive. Absolutely agree. As an example I can buy an orange juice for £2 in the countryside whereas in London it costs £3 at least. It depends on the shopping centre you go

People are rude/weird, etc. As it has been said it depends on the context where you met the people.

Government is not good enough. Compared to the Italian government, Brits are all Saints to me.

Teenagers are the worst in the world (have no idea why this should matter and how this affects everyone, can anyone explain please?). No Idea. I don't attend teenagers as I'm little grown up for playing with them  

Claustrophobic, not enough space for everyone, apartments are tiny. Yeah. I never rented in London, but I did in Hatfield and saw many pictures of some of my old colleagues. Spaces are very limited and to find a decent house or room you have to pay quite a lot.

Too much bureaucracy (my friend could not get internet in his apt. for over a month). Dunno. It looks like in this apartment the line has been cut off completely, so he have to wait BT to connect it again, which it normally takes 22 working days.

Lack of good dentistry. Skip.
Drinking. Not sure Brits will agree with this. There are plenty of pubs where you can drink a beer. I don't dring either so cannot give my opinion on this.

Bad weather. This is just a story. The weather is much more clement than it was 10 years ago and this summer we have had a very good weather. The sun shone quite a lot and it was warm up to the end of October (15 degrees approx).

Jobs are hard to get. It depends on your experience.


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## rifleman (Jun 24, 2011)

andreauk2009 said:


> I can contribute with my little 2 cents as an expat, because it's just two years and half I live in UK but not live in London.
> 
> Pros:
> 
> ...


I am a Londoner and eat out often, inexpensive but good quality food is easy to find here. Just buy yourself a time out restaurant guide.
Expensive, world class, food is also easy to find here, so things like the Time Out guide are really helpful.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

andreauk2009 said:


> I can contribute with my little 2 cents as an expat, because it's just two years and half I live in UK but not live in London.
> 
> Pros:
> 
> ...



THANK YOU! This is great. So glad that people are still replying. It was very interesting to read about your experiences.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

rifleman said:


> I am a Londoner and eat out often, inexpensive but good quality food is easy to find here. Just buy yourself a time out restaurant guide.
> Expensive, world class, food is also easy to find here, so things like the Time Out guide are really helpful.


Excellent tip! Will be purchasing a Time Out guide upon arrival.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

Still wanting/planning to move to London and all, but just out of curiosity, wanted to see a "show of hands" who think that I have a the grass is greener on the neighbor's lawn syndrome? anda:


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2011)

*Allow for transport costs...*



chicago said:


> Ok, thanks, will have to think of some other neighborhoods then. Any ideas anyone? Also, how much does it cost to move your apartment within London by a moving company? And is it easy to arrange? I am thinking that if we can't swing a decent 4-bedroom, maybe do a 3-bed instead for the first year or two. Also, how much do people normally spend in London on rent/mortgage? I know its about 30-40% of your salary here. Thanks.


I've recently come to London and discovered travel by tube to be quite expensive. While the underground is pretty good (high frequency of trains, reasonably clean and safe) it is also very expensive. A lot of trips require at least one change and fares are adjusted for peak times of the day - being more expensive IN peak times. Make sure you factor in this latent cost when considering where to live. Fare prices can be reduced by buying monthly or even annually up-front. See tfl {dot} gov {dot} uk/tickets/14416.aspx for an indication. If you add a spouse's costs to go shopping, sightseeing, making friends, etc it can all add up. I've found if you're not inclined to walk you may need to take a combination of bus(es) and train(s) to get somewhere. The high frequency makes it less painful (not having to wait long for connections) but sometimes the buses can be late and lines get closed unexpectedly. 

On a side note I've found an iPhone app called Tubemap to be highly useful. It gives live info on line closures, makes the journey planning easy by giving route suggestions, and includes a map of the tube network. The other app I have found somewhat useful is called Bus London. Hope this helps.


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## jorgon (Dec 19, 2011)

Reacher said:


> I've recently come to London and discovered travel by tube to be quite expensive. Fare prices can be reduced by buying monthly or even annually up-front.


Most Londoners and canny visitors use Oyster cards which you can buy and top up in newsagents and other shops all round London or at stations, and this makes travelling much cheaper. You can use the Oyster on tubes, buses and on suburban train services and you will find there is a daily cap (so once you reach the cap you are not charged any more however much you use it) see https://oyster.tfl.gov.uk/oyster/entry.do.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

Reacher said:


> I've recently come to London and discovered travel by tube to be quite expensive. While the underground is pretty good (high frequency of trains, reasonably clean and safe) it is also very expensive. A lot of trips require at least one change and fares are adjusted for peak times of the day - being more expensive IN peak times. Make sure you factor in this latent cost when considering where to live. Fare prices can be reduced by buying monthly or even annually up-front. See tfl {dot} gov {dot} uk/tickets/14416.aspx for an indication. If you add a spouse's costs to go shopping, sightseeing, making friends, etc it can all add up. I've found if you're not inclined to walk you may need to take a combination of bus(es) and train(s) to get somewhere. The high frequency makes it less painful (not having to wait long for connections) but sometimes the buses can be late and lines get closed unexpectedly.
> 
> On a side note I've found an iPhone app called Tubemap to be highly useful. It gives live info on line closures, makes the journey planning easy by giving route suggestions, and includes a map of the tube network. The other app I have found somewhat useful is called Bus London. Hope this helps.



Thanks, will be checking those apps. I love walking, but will need to be places fast on certain days, so the tube will be necessary and I have used the oyster in the past, thanks for the suggestions. Nobody said anything about the grass though still  funny


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

> Still wanting/planning to move to London and all, but just out of curiosity, wanted to see a "show of hands" who think that I have a the grass is greener on the neighbor's lawn syndrome?


On the contrary. I think you are wanting. hoping, and looking for the grass to be greener. In your original post you said that you had been going through posts for several months. Here it is nearly a month later and you're still trying to convince yourself.

Here are some other things to think about. What is your support system like in the US? Do you have a network of family and friends who you can reach out to when you get in a bind with the kids? 

How about financially? Will this move make you better off financially? Will you be able to have a similar or better lifestyle? I would advise against making a huge move if you are not at least going to be able to maintain your lifestyle. Of course I don't mean _exactly_ the same lifestyle because you will find some things different here. But, if you go on holidays will you still be able to go on holidays, things like that. 

You've been to London on holiday, but I'm guessing you've been to Central London right in the thick of things doing all the touristy things. Your housing budget is going to put you in at least Zone 2 or 3 and possibly make it a little more of a challenge to take advantage of all there is on offer like museums, theatre, etc.

On the other hand, as someone did point out, London big as it is, is full of little villages. I do live in Central London in a very villagey neighborhood. I am close to several tubes and buses and walking distance to the High Street which has everything I need from a grocery store to a butcher to a fishmonger to restaurants, a book shop, cheesemonger and plenty of window shopping. And there are lots of similar neighborhoods.

It's a big decision and I wish you luck, but you seem to be looking for some very specific piece of information to make the decision for you.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

nyclon said:


> On the contrary. I think you are wanting. hoping, and looking for the grass to be greener. In your original post you said that you had been going through posts for several months. Here it is nearly a month later and you're still trying to convince yourself.
> 
> Here are some other things to think about. What is your support system like in the US? Do you have a network of family and friends who you can reach out to when you get in a bind with the kids?
> 
> ...



Happy New Year!! Saw a broadcast of fireworks in London - looked awesome!

Once again, I appreciate you taking the time to help me sort this thing out, as I do need this sorted out Clearly! So, with respect to the good points you made in your posting here:

Support system: don't have it, parents live in Russia, have to pay a nanny every time we want to step out of our house, so not an issue.

Financially: this move will not make us richer by any means, if not poorer, but could potentially turn out to be ok if this proves to be a good career move for my husband, which is another reason that we are considering moving to London. 

We do live very centrally here in Chicago, walking and cabbing it, because everything is at the fingertips literally. Own a large 3-bedroom apt. with a great park nearby and great schooling options for my child. 

When I search on rightmove, I see a fair amount of 3-bedroom apartments in central London priced at 600-800 pounds per week, so I am not sure if these rental sites are not correct then if you are saying that I should not be able to find anything in Zone 1. Could anyone please clarify this?? Also, another idea that we had was paying more for housing to get into the right catchment area for schools. Would this work? In such case, we could probably spend 800-900 or possibly even more. After reading a few postings on this site, it appears to me that even residing in a good-school catchment area does not guarantee a place in a good school. So then what would guarantee a place in a good school?? 

These types of questions is what we need to figure out before we move. 

Thanks!


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## rifleman (Jun 24, 2011)

As you have noted, there are plenty of 3 bed properties in central London being advertised at rents within your budget, but you budget is at the low end for many parts of Zone 1. You won't know until you get here but you will probably find a nicer home in Zone 2, which is still central.
Nothing will assure you of a place in a good state school. If you want to be sure you will have to pay to educate yours kids privately.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

> When I search on rightmove, I see a fair amount of 3-bedroom apartments in central London priced at 600-800 pounds per week, so I am not sure if these rental sites are not correct then if you are saying that I should not be able to find anything in Zone 1.


I suppose it depends on what the definition of Central London is. I plugged in Central London to rightmove and got 152 properties. There were many in SW1. That's where the people were watching the fireworks from last night. I suppose technically it is Central London but it is where Parliament, Whitehall, government offices, Downing Street and some other tourist attractions are. I wouldn't categorize it as a particularly family orientated area. There were also flats in EC1 which is near the City (Liverpool Street financial area). I lived there for a few months and it is most definitely not a family friendly area. Between the young, hip,edgy nightclub areas and areas which are thriving during the week due to the influx of workers but dead on weekend it's probably not where you want to be.

Have a look at W1, W2, and WC2 and see what you come up with. Beyond that but still in Zone 1 W8, W11 and SW7 are also vibrant areas. These are areas where you're going to have a lot of amenities and more public transport choices. I think you'll find far fewer choices in your price range and while you'll come up with a few things they also probably will be in the 800-900 square foot range.



> We do live very centrally here in Chicago, walking and cabbing it, because everything is at the fingertips literally. Own a large 3-bedroom apt. with a great park nearby


If you are hoping for something similar, you will definitely have to increase your budget or look in Zone 2 or 3 as I've suggested. The farther away you get from Central London, the more you get for your money space wise.

And as far as schools, yes it's correct that being in a catchment area for a good school does not guarantee your child a place in that school. Even if you live next door to school. As rifleman suggested, the only way you can be sure what school your child gets into is to pay for it.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

rifleman said:


> As you have noted, there are plenty of 3 bed properties in central London being advertised at rents within your budget, but you budget is at the low end for many parts of Zone 1. You won't know until you get here but you will probably find a nicer home in Zone 2, which is still central.
> Nothing will assure you of a place in a good state school. If you want to be sure you will have to pay to educate yours kids privately.


Ok... (big sigh  So, would you happen to know what areas of Zone 2 are nicer to live in? Thanks a lot!


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

nyclon said:


> I suppose it depends on what the definition of Central London is. I plugged in Central London to rightmove and got 152 properties. There were many in SW1. That's where the people were watching the fireworks from last night. I suppose technically it is Central London but it is where Parliament, Whitehall, government offices, Downing Street and some other tourist attractions are. I wouldn't categorize it as a particularly family orientated area. There were also flats in EC1 which is near the City (Liverpool Street financial area). I lived there for a few months and it is most definitely not a family friendly area. Between the young, hip,edgy nightclub areas and areas which are thriving during the week due to the influx of workers but dead on weekend it's probably not where you want to be.
> 
> Have a look at W1, W2, and WC2 and see what you come up with. Beyond that but still in Zone 1 W8, W11 and SW7 are also vibrant areas. These are areas where you're going to have a lot of amenities and more public transport choices. I think you'll find far fewer choices in your price range and while you'll come up with a few things they also probably will be in the 800-900 square foot range.
> 
> ...



Thank you. I plugged in SW1 and came up with quite a few apartments in SW1 that weren't terribly small. One was 1,400 sq. feet. Actually, I love this area. I love Pimlico, don't know why, but it appeals to me. I like its proximity to the river, Westmister Abbey and the rest of the bustling center (Covent Garden, Soho, etc.), somewhat close to Tate Britain, yet I found it very peaceful. But you are saying that it is not very good to be there with kids? I don't really need to see a stroller or a dog on every corner, actually, I'd rather not.. Just want to make sure there is a playground or a grassy area nearby for my son to play and some non-hostile neighbors, and by that I only mean someone who doesn't care that a family with a child lives next door to them and minds their own business.

Other areas you suggested sound great as well, but I found more properties in SW1 for that price range. And 800-900 sq. feet will definitely not cut it for us, that's almost three times less than what we have now. 

So, with regards to the cost of private school, is it around 22,000 pounds per year? Does anyone know? And are those hard to get into as well? Thanks for your help everyone, Love this forum.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Pimlico isn't really anywhere near Soho or Covent Garden. 

It's not really near much of anything amenities wise unless you need daily ready access to antiques and interior design stores. There are a couple of restaurants and corner convenience type shops and it's known for it's garden squares but you definitely won't have everything or really much of anything for that matter, at your doorstep. It is pretty and if you want quiet and don't mind having to make dedicated trips by tube, bus or cab elsewhere around town for your daily needs, then maybe it's for you. There isn't going to be much within reasonable walking distance especially with a a small child in tow. I poked around Pimlico when searching for a neighborhood and found it nice but the lack of amenities made a no for us. 

The tuition at the American School in St. Johns Wood is about £22,000/year. As far as other independent schools in London I think it will vary and perhaps this link will be helpful:

Independent Private Schools - Independent Schools Council


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## jorgon (Dec 19, 2011)

I think some contributors here are missing my "villages" point made earlier.

There is central London which is great if you are single or newly married without kids.

Then there are also numerous villages in "Greater London", where your kids will have a much better time because for £600-£800 per week you can get a very nice house and garden where the kids can play. You can get to know your neighbours and your local pub and restaurants. The air will be cleaner, and the schools will be better too. Shopping will be nicer (big shops are everywhere not just in central London). You will be close to some wonderful parks where you can take the kids and walk the dog, or close to the river where you can join a rowing club or sail or just watch the water go by. And you can be a short walk to a station where you can get into central London quickly. Try for example: Twickenham, Teddington, Richmond, Kingston, Hampton Court, East Molesey. 

Chasing post codes with the lowest numbers is not the solution where you have a family.

I would suggest when the breadwinner of the family knows where he/she will be working, you go on the Transport for London journey planner and get the times of journeys to various Greater London villages. And then look on Google Street View and check the schools and rental opportunities in tlose places. And don't forget the further you live away from central London the faster the trains are to get you there!


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## rifleman (Jun 24, 2011)

chicago said:


> Ok... (big sigh  So, would you happen to know what areas of Zone 2 are nicer to live in? Thanks a lot!


I did say that you will PROBABLY find a nicer home for your budget in Zone 2, but that you wont know until you are here and looking.

These things are personal. It also isnt a question of area A being nicer than Area B, but rather some streets in Area A and being nicer than other streets in Area A and B. With your budget you will have a wider choice outside of Zone 1, but you may be lucky in Zone 1.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

rifleman said:


> I did say that you will PROBABLY find a nicer home for your budget in Zone 2, but that you wont know until you are here and looking.
> 
> These things are personal. It also isnt a question of area A being nicer than Area B, but rather some streets in Area A and being nicer than other streets in Area A and B. With your budget you will have a wider choice outside of Zone 1, but you may be lucky in Zone 1.


Thanks, I hope I am lucky somewhere  The way its looking right now it might have to be Greenwich.. Does anyone know anything about Greenwich? Is it a nice place to live? Also, on a separate note, can someone please explain to me why is it so difficult to get into good state schools? Someone must be able to get in.. So, what are the determining factors for letting kids in there, does anyone know?


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

jorgon said:


> I think some contributors here are missing my "villages" point made earlier.
> 
> There is central London which is great if you are single or newly married without kids.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your helpful ideas. I did see a few nice properties on foxtons in Twickenham and Richmond, but those areas seem so remote judging by the map. Since my husband will most likely be working in Canary Warf we were thinking of possibly living in Greenwich. Do you know anything about that suburb? Thanks.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

nyclon said:


> Pimlico isn't really anywhere near Soho or Covent Garden.
> 
> It's not really near much of anything amenities wise unless you need daily ready access to antiques and interior design stores. There are a couple of restaurants and corner convenience type shops and it's known for it's garden squares but you definitely won't have everything or really much of anything for that matter, at your doorstep. It is pretty and if you want quiet and don't mind having to make dedicated trips by tube, bus or cab elsewhere around town for your daily needs, then maybe it's for you. There isn't going to be much within reasonable walking distance especially with a a small child in tow. I poked around Pimlico when searching for a neighborhood and found it nice but the lack of amenities made a no for us.
> 
> ...



Ok then, thanks a lot for the detailed answer. Do you by any chance know anything about Greenwich? Sounds like that might be affordable... I guess I was right on the money about schools, thanks for sharing the link.


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## jorgon (Dec 19, 2011)

chicago said:


> Thanks for your helpful ideas. I did see a few nice properties on foxtons in Twickenham and Richmond, but those areas seem so remote judging by the map. Since my husband will most likely be working in Canary Warf we were thinking of possibly living in Greenwich. Do you know anything about that suburb? Thanks.


Richmond isn't remote at all (in London terms), it's 20 minutes into central London by train.
Greenwich is regarded as one of the nicest suburbs, it's very historical and has lots of things happening see Welcome to Greenwich.
It's on the tourist list because of the various attractions there. Ever heard of Greenwich Mean Time? This is where it was invented. There is a large park. It may be a bit lively during the Olympics because it is hosting several of the events. The website says that Greenwich is also only 20 minutes from central London. This must be by train. There is also a boat that goes along the River Thames to Greenwich from the City of London, but that takes a lot longer.

You might also consider nearby Blackheath which is also very picturesque. Towards Lewisham which is south of Blackheath there will be cheaper properties.

By the way I forgot to give another reason for living slightly out of London is that whenever you want to travel to the coast or into the country for a break you are already half way there. Did you know that if you live in central London and wish to drive away for the weekend, the traffic will be so bad that it will take you an hour to get out from central London to these places we are discussing (Richmond/Greenwich).

If I was working in Canary Wharf, which is slightly away from central London, there is no way I would live in central London - it would simply be pointless.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

jorgon said:


> Richmond isn't remote at all (in London terms), it's 20 minutes into central London by train.
> Greenwich is regarded as one of the nicest suburbs, it's very historical and has lots of things happening see Welcome to Greenwich.
> It's on the tourist list because of the various attractions there. Ever heard of Greenwich Mean Time? This is where it was invented. There is a large park. It may be a bit lively during the Olympics because it is hosting several of the events. The website says that Greenwich is also only 20 minutes from central London. This must be by train. There is also a boat that goes along the River Thames to Greenwich from the City of London, but that takes a lot longer.
> 
> ...


Great. Starting to feel slightly better about this whole thing. Maybe Central London isn't in the cards, after all. The website you suggested paints a beautiful picture and I also checked on Trip Advisor, and the reviews are glowing. The Olympics situation will indeed be a bit of a problem if we decide to move before the Olympics, but I am not going to focus on that, I am just happy that you are saying its a good suburb and is better to live there than in Central London when commuting to Canary Wharf. Now just have to decide if we can and want to pay for a private school, as it seems that everyone thinks this is the way to go Thank you!


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## jorgon (Dec 19, 2011)

chicago said:


> Now just have to decide if we can and want to pay for a private school, as it seems that everyone thinks this is the way to go


State education in England is given a high priority. I had a mixed education (part private, part State). I went to two different State schools and four different private schools. In my opinion the education at the State schools was better, mainly I thought because of the higher qualifications required of the teachers and the strict inspection regime. I was also very pleased to mix with a variety of kids in the State schools, which was missing from the private schools I went to. This did me good from a social point of view. I doubt very much if there will be any "rough" schools in Greenwich since it is not that sort of area. All I am saying is that it would be completely wrong to rule out the State schools.


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## rifleman (Jun 24, 2011)

chicago said:


> Great. Starting to feel slightly better about this whole thing. Maybe Central London isn't in the cards, after all. The website you suggested paints a beautiful picture and I also checked on Trip Advisor, and the reviews are glowing. The Olympics situation will indeed be a bit of a problem if we decide to move before the Olympics, but I am not going to focus on that, I am just happy that you are saying its a good suburb and is better to live there than in Central London when commuting to Canary Wharf. Now just have to decide if we can and want to pay for a private school, as it seems that everyone thinks this is the way to go Thank you!


I dont think anyone has said private education is the way to go. All anyone has said is that the only way to gaurantee getting a child into a good school is to pay for it. Firstly most state schools are pretty good. Many of the outstanding schools are oversubscribed though and each have thier own criteria when it comes to accepting kids. For example the London Oratory (where Tony Blairs kids went) has a London wide catchment area but gives priority to catholics who attend church in a London parish regularly and who perform well on a tough entrance test.
You need to do your own research, decide where you are going to live and what schools.you prefer and then figure out what to try for.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

chicago said:


> Ok then, thanks a lot for the detailed answer. Do you by any chance know anything about Greenwich? Sounds like that might be affordable... I guess I was right on the money about schools, thanks for sharing the link.


I would pick Richmond over Greenwich or Blackheath any day. Yes, Greenwich is nice but isolated and Blackheath, more so with only a train link to rely on. You used the word "remote" as your impression of Richmond, that's how I would describe Greenwich and Blackheath. Greenwich will be an easy commute into Canary Wharf, but that's about it. I do think commute is a very important factor, but it shouldn't be the only factor. If you are going to want to take advantage of all London has to offer as far as museums and culture, etc, Greenwich will be hassle.

Richmond is a lovely area, close to water with an excellent choice of shops, lots of nice green space and close to Kew Gardens which you can get a yearly pass to. There is also a Wholefoods going in. Richmond is actually a very desirable area to live because of it's easy commute into London by both train and tube. It may look like it's farther away from London than Greenwich, but it is far better served by public transport than Greenwich, making it much easier to take advantage of all London has to offer.

Are you planning on having a car? I'm not talking about for travelling to the coast for the odd weekend (for which the train service is excellent, so why bother) but because the farther you get away from Central London, the more you may find you need a car just to get around because bus and train service may not be as frequent or as available.

Also, as a side comment, Foxton's has an excellent website with lots of detailed information on properties, but they do have a reputation for being pushy so you may not want to use them when you actually start looking at properties. 

You also might want to consider St. John's Wood and Finchley which are both on the Jubilee Line which goes into Canary Wharf. Both are a little more leafy and green. Lot's of people who work in Canary Wharf choose these areas. You will also find flats to be a little larger.

Here is another website which will give you insight into different neighborhoods:

UK house prices, property, crime, local neighbourhood & schools | UpMyStreet


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

rifleman said:


> I dont think anyone has said private education is the way to go. All anyone has said is that the only way to gaurantee getting a child into a good school is to pay for it.
> 
> 
> You need to do your own research, decide where you are going to live and what schools.you prefer and then figure out what to try for.


So, how can we "guarantee getting a child into a good school" by paying for it without going to a private school?? Does this mean that we would have to pay someone at the state school to get our child in there? I am sorry if I am not understanding something here, I am really trying to figure this out.

Yes, I am doing my research by posting on this forum and checking other links, so right now it looks like I am sort of zeroing on the areas we can afford and want to live in and then focus on researching schools in those areas. And it looks like Richmond and Greenwich are leading the list for right now, plus some other Zone 2 and 3 areas..

Thanks for your postings.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

[QUOTE Many of the outstanding schools are oversubscribed though and each have thier own criteria when it comes to accepting kids. For example the London Oratory (where Tony Blairs kids went) has a London wide catchment area but gives priority to catholics who attend church in a London parish regularly and who perform well on a tough entrance test.
.[/QUOTE]

With regards to this information. Since we are both Russian and are not religiously affiliated what would increase our chances of getting into a good school? Does anyone know? And what kind of testing is this - does the child need to know how to read? That's usually the case in the States to get into a gifted program a child needs to know how to read, identify colors and shapes.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

jorgon said:


> State education in England is given a high priority. I had a mixed education (part private, part State). I went to two different State schools and four different private schools. In my opinion the education at the State schools was better, mainly I thought because of the higher qualifications required of the teachers and the strict inspection regime. I was also very pleased to mix with a variety of kids in the State schools, which was missing from the private schools I went to. This did me good from a social point of view. I doubt very much if there will be any "rough" schools in Greenwich since it is not that sort of area. All I am saying is that it would be completely wrong to rule out the State schools.


Thanks for sharing. We went to state schools too and private, but I agree with you that it is good to go to a state school for many reasons, although I didn't know that in England they might even be better than some private ones. I just want to make sure that its a good state school and those are difficult to get into.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

> So, how can we "guarantee getting a child into a good school" by paying for it without going to a private school?? Does this mean that we would have to pay someone at the state school to get our child in there?


I think the point is that there is* no way to guarantee* that your child gets into a good state school. (This includes trying to pay someone off.) Living in the catchment area of a good state school does not guarantee your child a place in that school. It is only guaranteed that a place will be found for your child in *some * school. As you would expect, everyone wants their kids to go to good state schools so they are oversubscribed and obviously there is only so much physical space. 

As far as faith schools, it is worth looking into them even if you are not of that faith.


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## rifleman (Jun 24, 2011)

chicago said:


> So, how can we "guarantee getting a child into a good school" by paying for it without going to a private school?? Does this mean that we would have to pay someone at the state school to get our child in there? I am sorry if I am not understanding something here, I am really trying to figure this out.
> 
> Yes, I am doing my research by posting on this forum and checking other links, so right now it looks like I am sort of zeroing on the areas we can afford and want to live in and then focus on researching schools in those areas. And it looks like Richmond and Greenwich are leading the list for right now, plus some other Zone 2 and 3 areas..
> 
> Thanks for your postings.


You cannot guarantee getting your child into a good state school. But I dont think you will find a bad one in either Richmond or Greenwich. I said that if you want a guarantee you will have to pay.....that means a private school.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

nyclon said:


> I would pick Richmond over Greenwich or Blackheath any day. Yes, Greenwich is nice but isolated and Blackheath, more so with only a train link to rely on. You used the word "remote" as your impression of Richmond, that's how I would describe Greenwich and Blackheath. Greenwich will be an easy commute into Canary Wharf, but that's about it. I do think commute is a very important factor, but it shouldn't be the only factor. If you are going to want to take advantage of all London has to offer as far as museums and culture, etc, Greenwich will be hassle.
> 
> Richmond is a lovely area, close to water with an excellent choice of shops, lots of nice green space and close to Kew Gardens which you can get a yearly pass to. There is also a Wholefoods going in. Richmond is actually a very desirable area to live because of it's easy commute into London by both train and tube. It may look like it's farther away from London than Greenwich, but it is far better served by public transport than Greenwich, making it much easier to take advantage of all London has to offer.
> 
> ...



Interesting bits of information about Richmond vs. Greenwich. We'll take them into consideration, thanks. As far as having a car goes, is it better to own a car or rent one?


Thanks for the heads up about Foxtons. I guess won't be using their services, but their website is still the best. I can find lots of information about square footage, etc. there. 

Looking at the Upmystreet website it appears that the square footage we can get in St. John's Wood and Finchley is a lot less than Richmond or Greenwich, and we really cannot manage on less than 1400 sq. feet I think, so as much as I like the idea of living close to Central London, I don't know if it's necessarily doable, but thanks for the suggestions!


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

rifleman said:


> You cannot guarantee getting your child into a good state school. But I dont think you will find a bad one in either Richmond or Greenwich. I said that if you want a guarantee you will have to pay.....that means a private school.


Thanks for clarifying. Its good to know that there are less bad schools in the burbs. I guess the burbs are the burbs - great for everything everywhere


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

chicago said:


> Thanks for clarifying. Its good to know that there are less bad schools in the burbs. I guess the burbs are the burbs - great for everything everywhere


Actually, Richmond and Greenwich are both in London so while they are more _suburban_ they are not quite the burbs.



> Looking at the Upmystreet website it appears that the square footage we can get in St. John's Wood and Finchley is a lot less than Richmond or Greenwich


Sorry, what I meant was more square footage than more central areas.



> As far as having a car goes, is it better to own a car or rent one?


Do you mean own or lease or just rent when you need one? I will be perfectly honest that cars are not my area of expertise as one of the perks of living in a big city for us (we last lived in New York) is that we don't need or for that matter, want a car. But, I do know there are some things you will need to think about if you intend to drive in the UK. 

You can drive on your US driving license for 1 year after which you have to obtain a UK driving license which entails 1st getting some kind of temporary or learner permit, taking a theory test AND a driving test. Most people I know (I'm talking adults) who have done this have taken driving lessons and some have had to take the driving test several times. 

As far as buying a car. You will have no credit when you get here. Your US credit history will not transfer. It can be difficult to open a checking account (yes, I'm serious) much less get a loan.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

nyclon said:


> Actually, Richmond and Greenwich are both in London so while they are more _suburban_ they are not quite the burbs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Life in London is not easy, hah?  All kinds of obstacles await us meager expats. I guess we'll just store our money under the mattress and pay cash for everything  

Thanks for the posting. I guess my question to you is what is it that you miss most about NY and are you planning to stay in London for good. What is it that you like about London? I am very grateful for all of your help and feel like I have somewhat of a sense of what type of lifestyle you enjoy, so it would be very interesting to me to hear your answers to the above questions, if that's not too much to ask...


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

> I guess we'll just store our money under the mattress and pay cash for everything


Well, let's not go crazy now. It _can_ be difficult because *usually* as well as proving who you are with your passport, you will need proof that you live here with something like a utility bill. As you're moving here for work it would be helpful if your husband's employer could provide a letter proving employment and salary. Based on your rental budget, his salary is probably pretty decent and this could help matters. On the other hand, some people get lucky and just walk in with their passport and open an account. If you can't open an account at X bank, it's worth it to walk around the corner to Y bank and see what they have to say. And it's worth asking his employer with help with things like this.

If you have an account with HSBC in the US, this could help you open an HSBC account in the UK. Alternatively, HSBC offers something called a passport account for people moving to the UK which you can open before hand. I think it's a pretty basic account which comes with a service charge.

However, it is true that you won't have any credit when you get here so if you are initially offered a credit card when you are able to open a bank account, it may have a very low limit.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

nyclon said:


> Well, let's not go crazy now. It _can_ be difficult because *usually* as well as proving who you are with your passport, you will need proof that you live here with something like a utility bill. As you're moving here for work it would be helpful if your husband's employer could provide a letter proving employment and salary. Based on your rental budget, his salary is probably pretty decent and this could help matters. On the other hand, some people get lucky and just walk in with their passport and open an account. If you can't open an account at X bank, it's worth it to walk around the corner to Y bank and see what they have to say. And it's worth asking his employer with help with things like this.
> 
> If you have an account with HSBC in the US, this could help you open an HSBC account in the UK. Alternatively, HSBC offers something called a passport account for people moving to the UK which you can open before hand. I think it's a pretty basic account which comes with a service charge.
> 
> However, it is true that you won't have any credit when you get here so if you are initially offered a credit card when you are able to open a bank account, it may have a very low limit.


So, does anyone know whether it is fairly easy to buy things on american websites and have them shipped to UK? It looks doable, judging by the information on store websites, but in reality, does it take a long time and is it worth it? Thanks!


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2012)

chicago said:


> So, does anyone know whether it is fairly easy to buy things on american websites and have them shipped to UK? It looks doable, judging by the information on store websites, but in reality, does it take a long time and is it worth it? Thanks!


Be *very careful* when doing this! I don't remember the exact amount but you will get hit with tariffs if you go over a certain number. For example, when we lived over there my wife ordered $600 worth of bedding/sheets from JCPennys to be delivered to our London address. We got hit with (around) £200 in tariffs before we could receive our merchandise. *Lesson learned!*

My wife just got home, and she said she thinks the limit is $25, or $50 if it's labeled as a gift. Anything more than that and you start getting hit with tariffs.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

BobbyM said:


> Be *very careful* when doing this! I don't remember the exact amount but you will get hit with tariffs if you go over a certain number. For example, when we lived over there my wife ordered $600 worth of bedding/sheets from JCPennys to be delivered to our London address. We got hit with (around) £200 in tariffs before we could receive our merchandise. *Lesson learned!*
> 
> My wife just got home, and she said she thinks the limit is $25, or $50 if it's labeled as a gift. Anything more than that and you start getting hit with tariffs.


Ouch!!!!!! Thanks for the heads up. 

I am lazy and buy everything online if I can. What do people do in London? I looked at amazon UK site and it didn't look like they had as nice of a variety of things there as on the american site. Are there any good UK sites?


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2012)

chicago said:


> Ouch!!!!!! Thanks for the heads up.
> 
> I am lazy and buy everything online if I can. What do people do in London? I looked at amazon UK site and it didn't look like they had as nice of a variety of things there as on the american site. Are there any good UK sites?


After our little JCPennys debacle, my wife & I would go back to the US once a year to visit family & whatnot. We would always leave London with empty suitcases and they'd come back full (if you know what I mean). Not once were we ever stopped by Customs. Just make sure to take the tags off everything before you pack.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

BobbyM said:


> After our little JCPennys debacle, my wife & I would go back to the US once a year to visit family & whatnot. We would always leave London with empty suitcases and they'd come back full (if you know what I mean). Not once were we ever stopped by Customs. Just make sure to take the tags off everything before you pack.



Thanks, but I just don't know if we'll be back that often once we leave. Don't have family here to visit, so ideally we would figure out a way to buy whatever we got used to having in the US while in UK.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

chicago said:


> So, does anyone know whether it is fairly easy to buy things on american websites and have them shipped to UK? It looks doable, judging by the information on store websites, but in reality, does it take a long time and is it worth it? Thanks!


It depends on the online shop. Some will ship internationally - others won't. Some people use mailing services, which give you a US address to use. You then pay the mailing service to ship you the goods when they arrive - but their fees to mail stuff to Europe tend to be kind of steep. And whether or not you get hit with VAT (that's the fees BobbyM was talking about - 20% of the declared value of the shipment including the shipping fees!) depends on how the package is marked to clear customs.

Some sellers will mark a lower value on the customs sticker, thus allowing you to get away without paying VAT (or paying less VAT). Not sure how the UK regulations on VAT work, but here in France it doesn't matter if the shipment is a gift or not - you pay based on the declared value of the package (including shipping fees). But normally any package under about $20 to $50 comes in with no VAT. (For some reason, packages shipped by post rather than a delivery service like UPS are the least likely to draw VAT charges.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

chicago said:


> Thanks, but I just don't know if we'll be back that often once we leave. Don't have family here to visit, so ideally we would figure out a way to buy whatever we got used to having in the US while in UK.


Almost everything you buy on American websites and have shipped to any foreign destination is subject to duty tax, VAT and in some instances import tax. Here in the UK, you are charged 20% VAT if you buy something from let's say: Victoria's Secret. So, if you are willing to pay that extra 20% to indulge yourself -like my wife- then go for it.

Ms. Bevdeforges, has pointed out a real truth. If you send something from the US and use a private carrier (UPS, Fed-Ex) you will pay: more for shipping charges + 20% VAT + in some cases they will charge for "incidental charges". 

Another alternative is, but it is an inconvenience, to use the Priority Mail Service USPS offers. For example, you can send goods up to 20lbs with a declared value + insurance of $499.99; and will not paid extra tax and this is a door to door service. However, if the amount exceeds $500.00 you are the subject to 20%VAT + other parcel fees/services. 

I was in the same position you are less than 2 months ago and honestly, I like what this country has to offer, and the quality of some products is equal if not better.

Do I miss something from the US? Yes, my SUV. 

Animo
(Cheers)


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

chicago said:


> I am lazy and buy everything online if I can. What do people do in London? I looked at amazon UK site and it didn't look like they had as nice of a variety of things there as on the american site. Are there any good UK sites?


What kinds of things are you talking about? 

(Also, did you see the PM I sent you?)


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2012)

chicago said:


> Thanks, but I just don't know if we'll be back that often once we leave. Don't have family here to visit, so ideally we would figure out a way to buy whatever we got used to having in the US while in UK.


Well, there are a few "American food stores" in and around London. The one below (see link) is a 2-3 minute walk from either the Holland Park or Notting Hill Gate tube station on the Central Line. They also say they deliver.

American Food Store

Food stuff was always our #1 thing to bring back with us. We would miss things like mac & cheese, grape jelly, double stuff oreo cookies, etc. We would also buy & bring back clothes whilst in the US as it was much cheaper to buy name brand clothes there than in London. Also, electronic items (just make sure they're dual voltage).


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

nyclon said:


> What kinds of things are you talking about?
> (Also, did you see the PM I sent you?)
> 
> 
> ...


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

BobbyM said:


> Well, there are a few "American food stores" in and around London. The one below (see link) is a 2-3 minute walk from either the Holland Park or Notting Hill Gate tube station on the Central Line. They also say they deliver.
> 
> American Food Store
> 
> Food stuff was always our #1 thing to bring back with us. We would miss things like mac & cheese, grape jelly, double stuff oreo cookies, etc. We would also buy & bring back clothes whilst in the US as it was much cheaper to buy name brand clothes there than in London. Also, electronic items (just make sure they're dual voltage).



Thanks! The only foods that we miss from US while abroad are hamburgers and Mexican food, like Chipotle , which isn't that Mexican after all I realize. Although while in US we almost never eat hamburgers, but once we are abroad we crave them  I don't understand this!


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

chicago said:


> Although while in US we almost never eat hamburgers, but once we are abroad we crave them  I don't understand this!


Don't worry about it!Here you can get your fix: 

Goodman Steak Restaurant in Mayfair City Canary W London, Popularly Regarded as the Best Steak in London 2011 2012 | Goodman Restaurants

Animo
(Cheers)


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2012)

chicago said:


> Thanks! The only foods that we miss from US while abroad are hamburgers and Mexican food, like Chipotle , which isn't that Mexican after all I realize. Although while in US we almost never eat hamburgers, but once we are abroad we crave them  I don't understand this!


Good Tex-Mex is almost impossible to find in Europe. And most of what you will find in London is either Cali-Mex or Mexican. Best I found, after trying many places, is a pub called Crown & Sceptre (see link below).

The Crown & Sceptre - West Kensington, London - Pubs

Best burger I found is at Prezzo (Italian chain). It was called the Red Pesto Burger.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

Jrge said:


> Don't worry about it!Here you can get your fix:
> 
> Goodman Steak Restaurant in Mayfair City Canary W London, Popularly Regarded as the Best Steak in London 2011 2012 | Goodman Restaurants
> 
> ...


Thanks!


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

BobbyM said:


> Good Tex-Mex is almost impossible to find in Europe. And most of what you will find in London is either Cali-Mex or Mexican. Best I found, after trying many places, is a pub called Crown & Sceptre (see link below).
> 
> The Crown & Sceptre - West Kensington, London - Pubs
> 
> Best burger I found is at Prezzo (Italian chain). It was called the Red Pesto Burger.


Great information!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

> Thanks! The only foods that we miss from US while abroad are hamburgers and Mexican food, like Chipotle


Well, there is good news for you then. You will find no shortage of hamburgers here, a decent hot dog, that's another story. Most pubs will have them on the menu and there are several chains including:

Bryons Byron - Homepage
Gourmet Burger Kitchen Gourmet Burger Kitchen - Home
Black and Blue :: Black and Blue Restaurants | King's Road ::

And perhaps the even better news is that there are 2 Chipolte restaurants in London. One on Baker Street and one on Charing Cross Road.

Chipotle: Find A Chipotle



> I am looking for some websites that sell "everything" like amazon in US. Are there any sites like this in UK? Some websites here that sell organic personal care and baby products, such as vitacost, some good department stores that have good customer care, such as Nordstrom's here


Other than Amazon UK you can try Tesco Direct or Asda Direct.

Tesco.com - online shopping; bringing the supermarket to you.
Online Grocery Shopping, ASDA Direct, George and more at Asda.com

John Lewis is a department store and probably the most similar to Nordstom's.

John Lewis | Furniture, TVs, Men's & Women's Clothing, Toys & More

Other department stores:

House of Fraser House of Fraser | 70% OFF Winter Sale Now On
Debenhams Women's, Men's & Kids Clothes, Shoes, Furniture & Gifts – Debenhams
Marks and Spencer http://www.marksandspencer.com

Boots, the predominant drug store chain here may sell some organic products:

Boots - Health and Beauty, Pharmacy and Prescriptions, UK Chemist - Boots

or the vitamin chain Holland and Barrett:

Holland and Barrett

(Got your pm)


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2012)

chicago said:


> Great information!


When you actually get over there I can recommend 8 good places to eat in and around Kensington (my old stomping grounds). My wife & I were in London on holiday just a couple of weeks ago so I know they're still good. I figure no point in telling you now as you probably have a lot of other things to plan out first.

Btw, I highly recommend you try to live somewhere in Kensington if you can. It still seemed very nice and virtually unchanged from when we lived there 3 years ago. Holland Park is where I lived... but we walked through neighborhoods off Kensington High Street, Kensington Church Street, Notting Hill (some parts) and everything still looked great! Just as we remembered it!


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2012)

nyclon said:


> John Lewis is a department store and probably the most similar to Nordstom's.
> 
> John Lewis | Furniture, TVs, Men's & Women's Clothing, Toys & More


+1 for John Lewis. They have quality merchandise at reasonable prices. My wife says it's like Macys meets JCPennys. Peter Jones is also another good one. IMO some of the other dept. stores: Harrods, Selfridges, etc. are grossly overpriced.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

Fantastic!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you so much!!!!!!!!! My husband loves his steaks and burgers, so that will be very helpful. And I can't believe Chipotle is in London now! Excellent!


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

BobbyM said:


> When you actually get over there I can recommend 8 good places to eat in and around Kensington (my old stomping grounds). My wife & I were in London on holiday just a couple of weeks ago so I know they're still good. I figure no point in telling you now as you probably have a lot of other things to plan out first.
> 
> Btw, I highly recommend you try to live somewhere in Kensington if you can. It still seemed very nice and virtually unchanged from when we lived there 3 years ago. Holland Park is where I lived... but we walked through neighborhoods off Kensington High Street, Kensington Church Street, Notting Hill (some parts) and everything still looked great! Just as we remembered it!



Thanks. I would love love love to live in Central London and that was the original plan, but it just looks like we won't be able to get the square footage that we need to accomodate ourselves on our budget there... Bye bye central London! Hello Greenwich?


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2012)

chicago said:


> Thanks. I would love love love to live in Central London and that was the original plan, but it just looks like we won't be able to get the square footage that we need to accomodate ourselves on our budget there... Bye bye central London! Hello Greenwich?


I honestly can't attest to much outside of Kensington but I do know of two other very nice places to live. The area in and around Maida Vale is very nice and leafy, but it's becoming such an up and coming part of London that I don't know how much you'd really save by living there. Probably a better option would be Chiswick. It's in Zone 3 (near the river) and not too far from Heathrow. I have a good friend who lives there and he absolutely loves it. Very leafy and green, very safe, and he's paying about 1/2 of what I paid to live in Holland Park. Same sized flat. Oh, also check out Ealing. Not as nice as some other areas but if you can find a place near Ealing Broadway tube station you'll be right on the Central Line with easy access to Central London.

I'm sure I don't have to tell you this but be *very careful* where you decide upon. Everything outside of Central London becomes very hit or miss in regards to safety, etc.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

> My husband loves his steaks and burgers


A head's up on steaks over here. Beef here is grass fed as opposed to grain fed as they are in the US and steaks do taste different. I don't find them as flavorful. We don't really like them and we've tried. It doesn't matter how much we spend on steak, UK steaks just don't cut it for us. We always end up drowning them in steak sauce. You don't notice as much in hamburgers because there is always other stuff in there. Selfridges is an upscale department store which also has a food hall and they now sells US steaks. They aren't cheap, but boy are they great. There also are now a couple of steak houses which offer US steaks, but again, not cheap.

I would suggest that before you move, your husband get himself a good fix of steaks!


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2012)

nyclon said:


> A head's up on steaks over here. Beef here is grass fed as opposed to grain fed as they are in the US and steaks do taste different. I don't find them as flavorful. We don't really like them and we've tried. It doesn't matter how much we spend on steak, UK steaks just don't cut it for us. We always end up drowning them in steak sauce. You don't notice as much in hamburgers because there is always other stuff in there. Selfridges is an upscale department store which also has a food hall and they now sells US steaks. They aren't cheap, but boy are they great. There also are now a couple of steak houses which offer US steaks, but again, not cheap.
> 
> I would suggest that before you move, your husband get himself a good fix of steaks!


I couldn't agree with this more. I tried a few steaks in London and finally just gave up on it. Like you said, they didn't seem as flavorful and IMO they were tough. However, in time I did find a great substitution: *LAMB!* I had some of the best lamb shank I've ever had in my life in London. I've gotten it over here in the US and it just isn't as good.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

> I'm sure I don't have to tell you this but be very careful where you decide upon. Everything outside of Central London becomes very hit or miss in regards to safety, etc.


This is good advice for anyplace you might look to live, but Greenwich and Richmond are not places you have to worry about. 



> However, in time I did find a great substitution: LAMB!


Agreed. Lamb here is excellent.


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## chicago (Nov 10, 2011)

BobbyM said:


> I couldn't agree with this more. I tried a few steaks in London and finally just gave up on it. Like you said, they didn't seem as flavorful and IMO they were tough. However, in time I did find a great substitution: *LAMB!* I had some of the best lamb shank I've ever had in my life in London. I've gotten it over here in the US and it just isn't as good.


We love lamb as well. I like it even more than steak!!!


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