# Any Advice/guidance would be useful



## stainsby

Hi Everyone,

Brand new to all this so please bear with me, my husband and I are wanting to emmigrate in the next 18months to two years. We are undecided between the rural andalucia region of Spain, or the central portugal area, we are wanting to live rural as we currently live in the Uk in a very small hamlet and it suits. 

I have been researching both countries and have read the Living and working survival books, some say that Spain (Rural) is cheaper than Portugal cost of living and one says that Portugal is??????

We will be purchasing a property outright, have no children, and I will be continuing with my recruitment business on a part time basis, looking for a quiter less stressful working life and put the quality of life first.

A friend of mine on the Spanish forum says that a couple with no mortgage, living like the spanish do (purchasing food from the local markets) eating out a couple of nights per week can live comfortably on 1,200-1,500 euros per month.

Just wondered how this compares to living in Central portugal????? and also what is the seasonal weather like Hot summers?????? Very cold winters??????


We want to retire part time to either portugal or Spain dependent which is the cheaper standard of living overall.

Can anybody also suggest any areas???? We have seen properties in the Beira Baxia area, Arganil, Louisa, etc

Thanks for listening

Amanda


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## silvers

Hi Amanda,
The locals here live on far less than the figures you are quoting, the ex-pats however tend to have a more extravagant lifestyle. It is entirely possible to survive on 1200 a month.
The areas you mention, firstly Beira Baixa. It can get very cold up there in the winter. Arganil and Lousa are both in similar areas and they are, in my opinion, the nicer choices. You can also live closer to the coast if you wish and still live in a small hamlet. 
We live in such a place, we have 3000 sq Metres and there are only 16 buildings in our town, yet we are only 10 minutes from the beach too.
One thing you have to be very aware of, is internet connections. If your business needs this, make sure that you can get a decent server.
There are two members of this board who sell property in those kind of areas that you are looking for and have business links on their posts. Look for goispro or omostra.
Good luck
James


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## OrkneytoPortugal

With regard to the cost of living, the average monthly income in Central Portugal is below 800 euros a month. We were talking yesterday to a Danish man who told us that the reason he moved to the Central Portugal region was that it was the only place in Europe where he could live comfortably on his pension of 600 euros a month. 

One of the advantages of the Gois region, between Arganil and Lousa, is its climate. Because we are in the mountains it tends not to be overbearingly hot during the summer, and as soon as the sun sets there is a cool breeze, making the nights pleasant. The winters can be wet, because of Portugal's proximity to the Atlantic, but this also means that the area is green and fertile, and keeps the rivers flowing.

We also know people in Spain who are looking at Portugal as a more pleasant environment in which to settle. This week a couple we know who have lived in Spain for many years have just moved to Gois, and they have expressed pleasure at the slower pace of life here.


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## OrkneytoPortugal

P.S. I was just wondering, from your user name and mention of living in a hamlet - you don't happen to live in the Stainsby that is not so far from Chesterfield and has an annual folk festival by any chance??


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## stainsby

*Thanks for that Info*




OrkneytoPortugal said:


> With regard to the cost of living, the average monthly income in Central Portugal is below 800 euros a month. We were talking yesterday to a Danish man who told us that the reason he moved to the Central Portugal region was that it was the only place in Europe where he could live comfortably on his pension of 600 euros a month.
> 
> One of the advantages of the Gois region, between Arganil and Lousa, is its climate. Because we are in the mountains it tends not to be overbearingly hot during the summer, and as soon as the sun sets there is a cool breeze, making the nights pleasant. The winters can be wet, because of Portugal's proximity to the Atlantic, but this also means that the area is green and fertile, and keeps the rivers flowing.
> 
> We also know people in Spain who are looking at Portugal as a more pleasant environment in which to settle. This week a couple we know who have lived in Spain for many years have just moved to Gois, and they have expressed pleasure at the slower pace of life here.


Hi,
Yes that is the Stainsby that we live in, the village has a folk festival every year. Its the only time that residents in the village see people. I presume you know it then??????

Is the Gois region mountanious????? my ideal location is to live in small village/hamlet with mountain views, how far is the region from the nearest airport???

And finally is the weather a lot cooler than Southern Spain or not??????

Thanks for helping us we really appreciate it, we are going to the Alpujarras region of Spain next month just to suss villages out, and I think we will come over to Portugal later in the year.

Speak to you soon

Regards

Mandy


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## OrkneytoPortugal

stainsby said:


> Hi,
> Yes that is the Stainsby that we live in, the village has a folk festival every year. Its the only time that residents in the village see people. I presume you know it then??????
> 
> Is the Gois region mountanious????? my ideal location is to live in small village/hamlet with mountain views, how far is the region from the nearest airport???
> 
> And finally is the weather a lot cooler than Southern Spain or not??????
> 
> Thanks for helping us we really appreciate it, we are going to the Alpujarras region of Spain next month just to suss villages out, and I think we will come over to Portugal later in the year.
> 
> Speak to you soon
> 
> Regards
> 
> Mandy


Hi Mandy,

Yes, Richard used to work at Stainsby folk festival every year until about 8 years ago when we left Derbyshire. I myself went along for a couple of years - I remember it as being a really nice festival. It's a small world indeed!

About Góis - it is in a mountainous region of great beauty to the east, and to the south-west the valley of the river Ceira broadens out into a gentler landscape. The region is largely undiscovered as yet, and there are dozens of charming little villages and hamlets in the hills and in the valleys, each with its own character. I have included a link to one of them below, to give you some flavour of the area:

Açôr

As for the climate, I would say it is more moderate than what I know of Southern Spain, as we are tempered by the Atlantic. In the summer, the temperature rarely gets higher than the mid-high 30's, and most of the time sits around the high 20's/low 30's. There are some wonderful swimming spots in the region for cooling off when it does get too hot! In the winter, the lowest temperature so far this year has been about 7 degrees in the daytime, though it doesn't stay that low for long - most days if it's been frosty at night the temperature climbs up to about 12 degrees by midday. As you will see from the photos the region is green and verdant, due to the fact that at some point over the winter it does get rain.

The nearest airport is Porto, about 2 hrs drive away. There are excellent public transport links from the airport to Coimbra, and from Coimbra there is a bus to Góis, or a train to Serpins, a taxi-ride away from Góis.

I do hope you make it out this way - I'm sure you wont be disappointed!

Kind regards,
Patricia


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## omostra06

Hi Amanda and welcome to the forum,

We have lived in central Portugal near Tomar for about 5 years now, its a lovely part of Portugal, with huge lakes, rivers, mountains and forests, lots of lovely old historic villages and towns, Tomar is only one hours drive from Lisbon airport, easy airport access and good road and rail links makes the region a good choice for people from overseas, it has a rural feel about it, the scenery the pace of life etc, but if you want something to keep you occupied it has galleries, museums, theatres etc etc, as well as dozens of great restaurants to choose from. Tomar is a UNESCO world heritage site, so if you like history then there is plenty to see.

As has been mentioned the weather changes quite dramatically the further north you go, we don’t like it cold in the winter so we wouldn’t live any further north than where we are now. Although I think this year its cold everywhere!

Cost of living is quite cheap here in Portugal compared with other places, and you can live quite well on not much money.

When looking for a property, do plenty of research about the area you are looking in, find out about the agents in the area; try to get some recommendations from other on forums that have experience with the local agents. The casa sapo website is a great tool for looking at property it covers all of Portugal. It will give you an idea what is available and at what price. 

Watch out for illegal agents, these guys are best avoided when spending large amounts of money on property, legal agents have an ami number which has to be displayed by law on all the company adverts, website, cards etc. so you can easily spot who is a genuine agent.

Think carefully about where you choose to live, its nice to think of the ideal place being miles from neighbours, private and quite. But after a while it will drive you mad if you don’t see anyone and there is nothing to do as you are too remote, finding somewhere near a small village for day to day things is a good idea, also try not to be too far from a larger town, as you will soon get tired of driving down mountain roads for one hour to get some supplies from the nearest town. it is possible to find quiet farmhouses that feel remote but are only ten minutes drive from a larger town, 

People do make mistakes and buy property in the wrong place, to remote, to far from amenities, to cold, only to try to sell up and move closer to civilisation after a while. Its better to take your time and buy the right property in the right place, first time.

Something to think about is renting a property first before buying, this way you get to sample a region or village before making a big financial commitment. 

There are lots of lovely places in Portugal and lots of different types of property take your time and hopefully you will find the right place for you.

Good luck with your plans. 

Derek


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## stainsby

*Hi Geoff*

Hi Derek,

Thanks for that advice, we are going out to rural Spain in February (Alpajuras region - Driving over lemons country) and we are coming out to Portugal at the end of August.

You will have seen that others have recomended the villages in the Gois region which looks very beautiful, I want a mountanious region and dont mind a quite village/hamlet as long as we can drive to a more lively village/ town within a 20 minute car ride.

Is the weather colder than where you are in the Gois region?????? I have seen property advertised in the Baxia Proenca-a-Nova region and Lousa regions what are these like????

We are seeking a character property that we may be able to offer bed and breakfast from as an addedd source of income to my recruitment business which I can run from home.

Definetly dont want to live in a busy town etc as we live very rural now and this is all I have known, as long as we can get to a village that has bars, small expat community, and restaurants that suits us.

Once again thank you for your advice

Look forward to hearing from you

Regards

Mandy and Rob 

We have lived in central Portugal near Tomar for about 5 years now, its a lovely part of Portugal, with huge lakes, rivers, mountains and forests, lots of lovely old historic villages and towns, Tomar is only one hours drive from Lisbon airport, easy airport access and good road and rail links makes the region a good choice for people from overseas, it has a rural feel about it, the scenery the pace of life etc, but if you want something to keep you occupied it has galleries, museums, theatres etc etc, as well as dozens of great restaurants to choose from. Tomar is a UNESCO world heritage site, so if you like history then there is plenty to see.

As has been mentioned the weather changes quite dramatically the further north you go, we don’t like it cold in the winter so we wouldn’t live any further north than where we are now. Although I think this year its cold everywhere!

Cost of living is quite cheap here in Portugal compared with other places, and you can live quite well on not much money.

When looking for a property, do plenty of research about the area you are looking in, find out about the agents in the area; try to get some recommendations from other on forums that have experience with the local agents. The casa sapo website is a great tool for looking at property it covers all of Portugal. It will give you an idea what is available and at what price. 

Watch out for illegal agents, these guys are best avoided when spending large amounts of money on property, legal agents have an ami number which has to be displayed by law on all the company adverts, website, cards etc. so you can easily spot who is a genuine agent.

Think carefully about where you choose to live, its nice to think of the ideal place being miles from neighbours, private and quite. But after a while it will drive you mad if you don’t see anyone and there is nothing to do as you are too remote, finding somewhere near a small village for day to day things is a good idea, also try not to be too far from a larger town, as you will soon get tired of driving down mountain roads for one hour to get some supplies from the nearest town. it is possible to find quiet farmhouses that feel remote but are only ten minutes drive from a larger town, 

People do make mistakes and buy property in the wrong place, to remote, to far from amenities, to cold, only to try to sell up and move closer to civilisation after a while. Its better to take your time and buy the right property in the right place, first time.

Something to think about is renting a property first before buying, this way you get to sample a region or village before making a big financial commitment. 

There are lots of lovely places in Portugal and lots of different types of property take your time and hopefully you will find the right place for you.

Good luck with your plans. 

Derek[/QUOTE]


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## stainsby

*Thanks James*

Hi James,

Thanks for that info, what villages should we be looking at nearer the coast??????

We were sent info on the Gois region which looks fabulous, just dont want to go somewhere where the weather is really cold. The villages in the Gois region look beautiful, we would'nt like anyway where it is really touristy or commercialised.

As long as we could get to a busy village within 20 mins by car that has a small expat community, bars, restaurants, etc that would suit.

We are coming out to portugal end of August to have a look at areas etc


Regards
Mandy
The locals here live on far less than the figures you are quoting, the ex-pats however tend to have a more extravagant lifestyle. It is entirely possible to survive on 1200 a month.
The areas you mention, firstly Beira Baixa. It can get very cold up there in the winter. Arganil and Lousa are both in similar areas and they are, in my opinion, the nicer choices. You can also live closer to the coast if you wish and still live in a small hamlet. 
We live in such a place, we have 3000 sq Metres and there are only 16 buildings in our town, yet we are only 10 minutes from the beach too.
One thing you have to be very aware of, is internet connections. If your business needs this, make sure that you can get a decent server.
There are two members of this board who sell property in those kind of areas that you are looking for and have business links on their posts. Look for goispro or omostra.
Good luck
James[/QUOTE]


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## OrkneytoPortugal

Hi again Amanda,
I guess we will all tell you that our area is the best, but there is only one way to find out what best suits you - come and see! 
Tomar is not all that far distant from Góis, so I can't imagine there is much difference in temperature, but of course a mountainous region will always tend to be a little fresher than a plain.
One bit of advice - make sure that whatever house you decide on gets plenty of sun in the winter, as this makes all the difference to your experience of the winter season. If there are orange trees growing in the village, this is a pretty good indication that it is not a cold location.

Happy hunting,
Patricia


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## omostra06

Hi Patricia, your right people will always think that their region is best and tell people all about it, I guess that’s why people choose to live where they do rather than some place else. 
The weather changes around the Penela region, as soon as you start to climb into the more mountainous area the winter temp comes down, the mountains also get the mist and frost, as you no doubt know. Further south in Tomar we get more mild winters, even the locals in nearby towns talk about Tomars micro climate, although the lake is only 10 mins drive from town we don’t normally get any mist and the night time temp is higher than some surrounding towns. But you are right about exploring all the different regions, towns and villages; it’s the best way to find the right place. Everyone likes different things.

Hi Mandy and Rob 

We spent some time in the Alpajuras region when we were in southern Spain, we took Chris Stewarts book with us to find the places he talks about in the book, he put a map in his first book for people to find the different locations, only to tell us in his second book that the map was wrong!! That’s why there were loads of tourists in every lay-by clutching his book looking at the map and feeling lost!

Gois region is a lovely place with some great scenery; the great thing about central Portugal is the variety of scenery, something for everyone.

The weather is colder in the Gois region than in the Tomar region, Tomar is further south perhaps only 80 or so klm´s but there is a difference in temperature and climate. Nothing a good roaring fire in the winter wont sort out.

We have some friends that bought a property in Proenca-a-Nova region near the town of Sobreira Formosa about 5 years ago, they have since sold up and moved south as they realised that it was a bit remote and the winters were cold. (frost and cold winds) although there are some small market towns there, they used to drive to Castello Branco, (2 hours round trip) to find a big supermarket or to buy clothes etc. they got tired of living in the mountains it was too remote, they like to socialise and found it hard as there was not much going on, so they sold up and moved. If you are looking in that area there are a couple of good agents but there is one really bad one, I have heard lots of bad reports on, I wont post names here but if your going there I can let you know what I heard and you could speak to the people that told me so you don’t have any problems.

Bed and breakfast is a great idea, it allows you to meet lots of different people as well as giving you an extra income, for any tourist related business like b&b try to find a place that is easy to get to, has some interesting things for your guests to go and see and plenty for them to do, restaurants, theatre, galleries, historic monuments castles etc. the more there is to do and see the more chance you will have of attracting clients, especially if you are a little remote and don’t get passing trade. 
We deal alot with holliday rental properties and we work with b & b owners, were always sending clients to local b & b´s near Tomar, what we have found when finding accommodation for overseas clients is they like to be no more than one and a half hours from the Airport, they like to be 10 mins from a big town with things for them to do at night, if your thinking about running this type of business think about Location and the right type of property, better location will mean more paying guests.


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## stainsby

*Hi It's me again*

 Hi Derek,
Seems as tho everyone has read Chris Stewarts books!!!!, can you please give me the names of some small villages/hamlets that are no more that 30 mins from Tomar??????

Rob is a bit of a sun worshipper, so would not want to live in to much of a really cold climate during the winter, so a milder climate would be preferable.

Kind Regards

Mandy and Rob


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## OrkneytoPortugal

Hi Mandy and Rob,
There is just one thing that I would add - we seem to be concentrating on the winter temperature, which may vary by 1 or 2 degrees over the whole of the central region. What I would like to point out is that in the mountains the temperature rarely rises over 40 degrees, whereas on the flatter ground towards Tomar, and also further north along the Mondego valley, the temperatures do go much higher in the summer, and sometimes unpleasantly so. You can find information on the web, and I would suggest that you find this information out for yourselves and don't fall into the trap of relying on a salesman's pitch!
Kind regards,
Patricia and Richard


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## stainsby

Hi Patricia/Richard,

Thanks for that we would want to live in a montanious region anyway, the views are always far better, the more rugged the better. I am going to try and see if I can purchase a book on the Gois region. Finding it quite difficult to find an agent that specalises on the net on the Gois region. Been looking at Pure Portugal and they have one or two properties in the LOUSA region.

Regards

Mandy and Rob 

There is just one thing that I would add - we seem to be concentrating on the winter temperature, which may vary by 1 or 2 degrees over the whole of the central region. What I would like to point out is that in the mountains the temperature rarely rises over 40 degrees, whereas on the flatter ground towards Tomar, and also further north along the Mondego valley, the temperatures do go much higher in the summer, and sometimes unpleasantly so. You can find information on the web, and I would suggest that you find this information out for yourselves and don't fall into the trap of relying on a salesman's pitch!
Kind regards,
Patricia and Richard[/QUOTE]


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## silvers

Dear Mandy and Rob,
This map may be of some use to you.
Gois Map | Portugal Google Satellite Maps


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## omostra06

I would agree with you Patricia, some of the flat areas of Portugal can get very hot indeed, but, Tomar and 10 mins east towards the 40 mile long lake of Castello do Bode is mountaious and is great scenery, but if you drive say 40 klms south of our region across the Tejo river you will start to get flatter land which in my opinion gets a little hot in summer, also i too dont like flat scenery i much prefare hills, mountains, rivers, lakes, thats why we choose Tomar, because it has all that.

I have posted some pictures so you can see how lovely central Portugal is.

This is a view of the lake from near Serra just 12 klm east of Tomar









This one is near Dornes~, lovely little village on the lake shore








this one is my favorite summer swimming spot, this is 2 mins from my house and 10 mins from Tomar.


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## OrkneytoPortugal

Lovely photos of the Barragem do Castelo do Bode. I believe the lake is actually a reservoir made by a hydro-electric barrage, and uses the water stored in the lake to drive electric turbines. 

Anyone considering buying a property by a reservoir should be sure to check the height of the water both in the winter and summer, and also whether there is a problem with large areas of exposed mud and mosquitoes. Also, if areas of agricultural land make up the catchment of the reservoir, be aware that over the summer there can be algal blooms which although mainly harmless, can discolour the water and make it less attractive.

Unfortunately, some friends of ours bought a house close to a hydro-electric dam on the river Mondego. The property looked very beautiful when they bought it, but because of low rainfall and hydro-electric demand the water level fell, exposing areas of mud and causing a fly problem in August, when they were expecting to be able to swim.

We would always advise people to do their own research - you want to make sure you understand the potential of the location throughout the entire year.


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## omostra06

Patricia, it looks like it is impossible to share information with others on this forum without you, saying that they are wrong and you are right, i guess no where in Portugal will measure up to Gois, 
so rather than let others decide where they would like to be, just keep on pushing Gois as the best place, i guess everywhere else is to hot and has biblical plagues and no matter what someone says about where they live you will try to convince others that something is wrong with the place, 
as you may have noticed in my posts i also mentioned that lots of areas are nice including Gois, i refrain from doing what you are doing only promoting your area, like a dedicated speel from a sales person, why not just share info on your area you live in, and allow other to speak about their area, you dont have to comment and try to discredit everything people say. it wont make you poular on the forum.

from your discription of Castelo do Bode lake it sounds like the worse place on earth, i guess thats why its so popular and people build several million euro homes close to the water (or should i say fly infested swamps!! )
before speaking about a place perhaps you should visit it first then at least you may know what you are talking about!


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## OrkneytoPortugal

The Góis region 
by Luis Ferreira


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## omostra06

some fantastic poscard photos of your region, Patricia looks lovely.





just incase anyone is interested in this sort of thing, some pictures of the business end of the lake. The water supplies Lisboa for drinking water, as well as generating clean renewable electricity for countless homes.

Built in the 1950,s


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## Veronica

Both regions look wonderful

Now could we please not turn it into a battle.


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## omostra06

Hi Veronica,
these forums are for helping people by sharing experiances and info, and they work well, but as with all forums sometimes some people do like to get into the mine is bigger and better than yours debate, which is of course pointless ....

not wanting to seem petty but cant resist the urge to share one last piece of info...as this disscussion was about the tempreture difference between Tomar region and the regions further north, what do i see on the news today its only snowing up there...brrrrrr and we have lovely blue skies...i rest my case....(well we have had some rain too, in all honesty)

sorry couldnt resist...i shall say no more on the subject......unless prevoked.

Protecção Civil alerta para vento, chuva e neve - RTP Notícias


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## stainsby

Thank you all for the great pictures, when we come over (thinking about second week September) we are just going to visit as many areas as possible. Ive found out about flights and it seems the most direct flights for me to fly back once a month is with Ryanair to Birmingham airport.

If anyone can give me some names of villages/hamlets around Tomar or in fact places that are no more than a maximum of a 2hr drive to the Porto airport.

Thanks again everyone for your advice

Regards
Mandy and Rob


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## omostra06

There are lots of nice villages around Tomar area, the ones close to the lake, although very pretty, tend to be a bit expensive, 
Take a look at Constantia, lovely little historic village built on the high ground where two rivers meet, lovely old cobbled streets as well as some good restaurants. Also 10 mins from Tomar the Sao Pedro region has several lovely little villages, 
Martinchel also is a great little place near the eastern shoreline of the lake, it has a couple of cafes, a restaurant a super market, church and a eco Museum its 10 mins drive from Abrantes and about 15 from Tomar,

Villages on the south of Tomar are closer to the airport. From Tomar centre to Lisbon airport is one hours drive, Porto around 2-3 hours drive, 

Take a look on goggle maps to get an idea of the different villages, some are bigger than others, some have little shops and some of the small little hamlets don’t.

we used to fly to Birmingham airport from Lisbon regularly last year, on some of the budget airlines. then drive up to the north east.


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