# Moving to spain



## Brulee (Jan 13, 2021)

Hello everyone 
We are moving to Spain in August and I will try to get a non working Visa. Do I have to apply for 2 visas or can my wife be on the same Visa application as a dependent. What I am asking do I have to provide 2 bank accounts of 26000 euros or just 1. Many thanks for any replies


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Brulee said:


> Hello everyone
> We are moving to Spain in August and I will try to get a non working Visa. Do I have to apply for 2 visas or can my wife be on the same Visa application as a dependent. What I am asking do I have to provide 2 bank accounts of 26000 euros or just 1. Many thanks for any replies


Welcome.

One of you applies as the main applicant & the other as a dependent. So no, only one income needs to be shown, currently just under 26.000€ a year for the main applicant & just under 6.500€ a year per dependent.


There's note on the London Consulate website atm that it's closed until further notice due to covid.






Visas (FAQ)







www.exteriores.gob.es


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## Jenny Jitterbug (Aug 26, 2020)

You do not need a visa if you are from UK, Boris has sorted it. Who knows the purpose of your visit? Just land in Spain and make a residence application within 90 days.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jenny Jitterbug said:


> You do not need a visa if you are from UK, Boris has sorted it. Who knows the purpose of your visit? Just land in Spain and make a residence application within 90 days.


I do hope that's tongue firmly in cheek...


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## Jenny Jitterbug (Aug 26, 2020)

It’s fact.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jenny Jitterbug said:


> It’s fact.


Please provide an official government link.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Jenny Jitterbug said:


> It’s fact.


I think Jenny is saying that for short stays you do not need a visa to come to Spain and so the OP could come "on holiday" and during their holiday begin the process for residency. Although, I am not sure if that is accurate or not to be honest. I have not paid particular interest in the process as it doesnt apply to me but I believe the official guidance is to apply prior to coming. 

Even if it would be technically possible to arrive as a tourist and then decide to stay, I think that it would be foolish to pack up and move with no certainty of acceptance and it would always be the best thing to ensure all the right paperwork is in order and processed/approved before getting on the plane. What if the application is declined or delayed etc and you are here with a 90 day limit? You would then be in the country "illegally", any insurance you have would be invalid and if you returned home late, i presume this would be stamped in the passport with potential issues in the future for overstaying your welcome!

But I am very keen to learn if this is official advice to just move and then submit applications?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

xicoalc said:


> I think Jenny is saying that for short stays you do not need a visa to come to Spain and so the OP could come "on holiday" and during their holiday begin the process for residency. Although, I am not sure if that is accurate or not to be honest. I have not paid particular interest in the process as it doesnt apply to me but I believe the official guidance is to apply prior to coming.
> 
> Even if it would be technically possible to arrive as a tourist and then decide to stay, I think that it would be foolish to pack up and move with no certainty of acceptance and it would always be the best thing to ensure all the right paperwork is in order and processed/approved before getting on the plane. What if the application is declined or delayed etc and you are here with a 90 day limit? You would then be in the country "illegally", any insurance you have would be invalid and if you returned home late, i presume this would be stamped in the passport with potential issues in the future for overstaying your welcome!
> 
> But I am very keen to learn if this is official advice to just move and then submit applications?


Even if that's what she means it's not true.

Visa applications for British (& all other 3rd country) citizens have to be made - & approved - from the country of usual residence BEFORE travelling.

For British citizens gone are the days of rocking up & deciding to stay, sorting out the legalities sometime or other in the future, if ever.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

xabiaxica said:


> Even if that's what she means it's not true.
> 
> Visa applications for British (& all other 3rd country) citizens have to be made - & approved - from the country of usual residence BEFORE travelling.
> 
> For British citizens gone are the days of rocking up & deciding to stay.


Well, one thing she said here is very true... Boris sorted it... well, not sure if "sorted" is the word... more "screwed it up" jaja


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Well, each EU country has its own procedure for dealing with third country nationals who wish to live, rather than just stay as tourist. Some countries like France require people like US citizens who don't require a visa to visit to apply for a long-stay visa first in the country of residence and then continue with residence requirement in France, by applying for residence permit at a préfecture. For Germany, US citizens and other non-visa nationals can just arrive as a visitor and then start their residence application at a foreigner's office (Ausländeramt). For Spain, the rule for third country nationals has been to apply for a long-stay visa in the country of residence first and then continue with residence permit at extranjeria. For British citizens following the Brexit transition period, each country will make its own arrangement, and for Spain it hasn't yet been finalised yet - some announcement is being expected possibly in February.


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## Brulee (Jan 13, 2021)

Thanks xabiaxica,
Can I have the money in an English bank account as I will not get a Spanish account till I get to Spain. 
Many thanks


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## Jenny Jitterbug (Aug 26, 2020)

xabiaxica said:


> Even if that's what she means it's not true.
> 
> Visa applications for British (& all other 3rd country) citizens have to be made - & approved - from the country of usual residence BEFORE travelling. *(not true, excludes UK citizens)*
> 
> For British citizens gone are the days of rocking up & deciding to stay, sorting out the legalities sometime or other in the future, if ever.


UK citizens who hold either a full UK passport or a BOTC, BOC, BPP or BS passport can travel freely to Spain.
UK citizens can travel to countries in the Schengen area for up to 90 days in any 180-day period without a *visa*. This applies if you travel as a tourist, to visit family or friends, to attend business meetings, cultural or sports events, or for short-term studies or training. If you wish to remain in Spain permanently you will need to apply for residency within Spain and within the first 90 days.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

The financial requirement has gone up, for 2021 a couple now need a tad shy of €34,000

IPREM 2021 Indicador Público de Renta de Efectos Múltiples

It can be cash in the bank or guaranteed income which really means pensions.

Note that if relying on cash then for the 2nd and 3rd two year visas you will need to show €68,000 each time.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jenny Jitterbug said:


> UK citizens who hold either a full UK passport or a BOTC, BOC, BPP or BS passport can travel freely to Spain.
> UK citizens can travel to countries in the Schengen area for up to 90 days in any 180-day period without a *visa*. This applies if you travel as a tourist, to visit family or friends, to attend business meetings, cultural or sports events, or for short-term studies or training. If you wish to remain in Spain permanently you will need to apply for residency within Spain and within the first 90 days.


That isn't the same as MOVING to Spain. Now that the withdrawal period is over, it is no longer possible to apply for a visa once you are in Spain. It MUST be applied for in your country of residence.

The residence visa must be in place before you travel.


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## Jenny Jitterbug (Aug 26, 2020)

xabiaxica said:


> That isn't the same as MOVING to Spain. Now that the withdrawal period is over, it is no longer possible to apply for a visa once you are in Spain. It MUST be applied for in your country of residence.
> 
> The residence visa must be in place before you travel.


Are you saying UK citizens cannot travel to Spain as a tourist and then change their mind, decide to stay and choose to make a resident application from within Spain?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Jenny Jitterbug said:


> Are you saying UK citizens cannot travel to Spain as a tourist and then change their mind, decide to stay and choose to make a resident application from within Spain?


There is I believe a discussion taking place between Spain and UK to finalise arrangement for UK citizens wanting to live in Spain post-Brexit, and vice-versa. While Spain normally requires third country nationals to apply for long-stay visa first before arriving, an exception can be made so that you can initiate residency application after arriving as visitor. I have heard that announcement may be due in February. Since residency for third country nationals is a national matter, Spain won't be breaking any EU rules by making an exception for UK citizens.


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## Jenny Jitterbug (Aug 26, 2020)

Joppa said:


> There is I believe a discussion taking place between Spain and UK to finalise arrangement for UK citizens wanting to live in Spain post-Brexit, and vice-versa. While Spain normally requires third country nationals to apply for long-stay visa first before arriving, an exception can be made so that you can initiate residency application after arriving as visitor. I have heard that announcement may be due in February. Since residency for third country nationals is a national matter, Spain won't be breaking any EU rules by making an exception for UK citizens.


Thank you Joppa. Why do some people just makeup garbage stories to try and mislead everyone?


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## yevlondon (Jul 8, 2020)

Jenny Jitterbug said:


> Thank you Joppa. Why do some people just makeup garbage stories to try and mislead everyone?


well you would know, wouldn't you?
why are you presenting something as fact when it is far from it and is still being decided?
until Spanish authorities declare otherwise, it would be foolish to come here with intention to reside without a visa and hope for the best.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jenny Jitterbug said:


> Thank you Joppa. Why do some people just makeup garbage stories to try and mislead everyone?


I'm not making anything up.

That is the current situation.

IF it changes, then it changes.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Joppa said:


> There is I believe a discussion taking place between Spain and UK to finalise arrangement for UK citizens wanting to live in Spain post-Brexit, and vice-versa. While Spain normally requires third country nationals to apply for long-stay visa first before arriving, an exception can be made so that you can initiate residency application after arriving as visitor. I have heard that announcement may be due in February. Since residency for third country nationals is a national matter, Spain won't be breaking any EU rules by making an exception for UK citizens.


Do you have a source?


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Joppa said:


> There is *I believe *a discussion taking place between Spain and UK to finalise arrangement for UK citizens wanting to live in Spain post-Brexit, and vice-versa. While Spain normally requires third country nationals to apply for long-stay visa first before arriving, an exception can be made so that you can initiate residency application after arriving as visitor. *I have heard *that announcement may be due in February. Since residency for third country nationals is a national matter, Spain won't be breaking any EU rules by making an exception for UK citizens.


Sources?

I *believe *the moon is made of blue cheese and *I* *have heard* that it's inhabited by aliens.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I think the main point here is: if you have resided legally in Spain for 5 years then you can return to UK for up to 5 years. If during that 5 year time you return to Spain you will legally be able to take up residency again without any form of visa. This was agreed in the WA. If however you do not already have permanent ( 5 years) residency you can only be absent for 6 months. Any longer and you will lose your Spanish residency. This will easily detectable at passport control.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

xabiaxica said:


> Do you have a source?


WE HAVE NO NEW INFO ON RESIDENCIAS Nerja Foreigners Dept. is receiving many enquiries regarding changing the green resident card to a new TIE resident card or applying for the first time for this TIE card. For the moment we have no news for 2021. So we must wait until the British and Spanish governments come to an agreement on the residencia requirements. Possibly this could be in February. As soon as we have any further info, we will send out a newsletter.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Joppa said:


> WE HAVE NO NEW INFO ON RESIDENCIAS Nerja Foreigners Dept. is receiving many enquiries regarding changing the green resident card to a new TIE resident card or applying for the first time for this TIE card. For the moment we have no news for 2021. So we must wait until the British and Spanish governments come to an agreement on the residencia requirements. Possibly this could be in February. As soon as we have any further info, we will send out a newsletter.


All they need to do is look at the Spanish govt websites!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

xabiaxica said:


> All they need to do is look at the Spanish govt websites!


Yes, true, but since you only get an announcement after a change is made, it's useful to find out if there is any discussion taking place and its likely outcome.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Joppa said:


> So we must wait until the British and Spanish governments come to an agreement on the residencia requirements. Possibly this could be in February.


Is that it?


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## Jenny Jitterbug (Aug 26, 2020)

xabiaxica said:


> All they need to do is look at the Spanish govt websites!


So where does it state on the Spanish Government websites today that UK citizens need a Spanish residence visa before entering Spain to make a Spanish residence application?
*LINK LINK*


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Nobody is saying that nor is it the case.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jenny Jitterbug said:


> So where does it state on the Spanish Government websites today that UK citizens need a Spanish residence visa before entering Spain to make a Spanish residence application?
> *LINK LINK*


I'm still waiting for your source, but while you're looking for it, have a read of the visas page on the Spanish Consulate in London's website. Updated since the end of last year. Applications go to the Consulate in your country of legal residence & the process includes a face to face interview.

You need a visa before you arrive, & then register / apply for a TIE once here.






Visas (FAQ)







www.exteriores.gob.es


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## Jenny Jitterbug (Aug 26, 2020)

xabiaxica said:


> I'm still waiting for your source, but while you're looking for it, have a read of the visas page on the Spanish Consulate in London's website. Updated since the end of last year. Applications go to the Consulate in your country of legal residence & the process includes a face to face interview.
> 
> You need a visa before you arrive, & then register / apply for a TIE once here.
> 
> ...


*Consulate of Spain in LONDON*
Visas (FAQ)
*TEMPORARY CLOSURE OF THE CONSULATE.

Following the advise of British and Spanish authorities, the Consulate will remain closed to the public from 11th January until further notice to protect the health of its public and staff. Anyone who has an appointment will be contacted to relocate it to the earliest available date. *


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jenny Jitterbug said:


> *Consulate of Spain in LONDON*
> Visas (FAQ)
> *TEMPORARY CLOSURE OF THE CONSULATE.
> 
> Following the advise of British and Spanish authorities, the Consulate will remain closed to the public from 11th January until further notice to protect the health of its public and staff. Anyone who has an appointment will be contacted to relocate it to the earliest available date. *


Yes. The Consulate is temporarily closed due to the virus. The visa info is all on the link.

What does that have to do with my reply to you?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

xabiaxica said:


> I'm still waiting for your source, but while you're looking for it, have a read of the visas page on the Spanish Consulate in London's website. Updated since the end of last year. Applications go to the Consulate in your country of legal residence & the process includes a face to face interview.
> 
> You need a visa before you arrive, & then register / apply for a TIE once here.
> 
> ...


Yes, they have simply continued to display the rules as they exist for third country nationals. I believe there is or is rumoured to be ongoing discussion between Spain and UK to simplify or change residency procedure, and once they are agreed, no doubt the consulate will update its pages. At the moment, Spanish nationals wanting to live in UK long-term don't have to get a visa but can apply for new leave to remain after arrival. This is supposed to last during 2021 or till middle of 2022.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Joppa said:


> Yes, they have simply continued to display the rules as they exist for third country nationals. I believe there is or is rumoured to be ongoing discussion between Spain and UK to simplify or change residency procedure, and once they are agreed, no doubt the consulate will update its pages. At the moment, Spanish nationals wanting to live in UK long-term don't have to get a visa but can apply for new leave to remain after arrival. This is supposed to last during 2021 or till middle of 2022.


I'm 'plugged in' to several action groups which have close contact with the British Consulate in Spain & none have heard anything about this. 

I really think that we do need to treat it as just what you have said - *a rumour* & no more than that, until or unless there is something official from La Moncloa.

The current situation is that visas must be applied for before travel if someone wishes to move to Spain from a third country.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Spain has agreed there are difficulties with 'snowbirds' and second-home owners wanting to spend more than the stipulated 90-in-180 days in Spain, but without becoming Spanish residents and taxpayers. This is from Q&A with British Embassy Madrid. I don't know if there are on-going discussions, but British Ambassador has said he will take it up with Spanish government.


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## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

kaipa said:


> I think the main point here is: if you have resided legally in Spain for 5 years then you can return to UK for up to 5 years. If during that 5 year time you return to Spain you will legally be able to take up residency again without any form of visa. This was agreed in the WA. If however you do not already have permanent ( 5 years) residency you can only be absent for 6 months. Any longer and you will lose your Spanish residency. *This will easily detectable at passport control.*


Interesting point. Will this only kick in this year? That is, did Spanish authorities ever really record passports before? There must be a few pensioners, resident for under 5 years, who left Spain at some point pre-Brexit and haven't been back yet because of COVID etc. They fly back in summer 2021. One passport stamp in, no passport stamps out. Fancy upgrading to permanent residency. Do the Spanish know they even left?

I can feel opportunities for Americans and Canadians who've been through all this to set themselves up as advisors in Spain these days...


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

As some one has already said it seems perfectly reasonable that Spain would monitor who enters and leaves their country just as everyone else does. This is how all countries that control immigration works. UK passport holders will be subject to the same treatment as 3rd country persons ie your passport will be stamped or recorded. That is how it now works in UK for all non-nationals so expect the same in Spain


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Jenny Jitterbug said:


> Thank you Joppa. Why do some people just makeup garbage stories to try and mislead everyone?


Hahaha, hilarious I'm sure.
For new members, Jenny Jitterbug seems to enjoy misleading people and her information (or his) cannot always be relied on


Joppa said:


> There is I believe a discussion taking place between Spain and UK to finalise arrangement for UK citizens wanting to live in Spain post-Brexit, and vice-versa. While Spain normally requires third country nationals to apply for long-stay visa first before arriving, an exception can be made so that you can initiate residency application after arriving as visitor. I have heard that announcement may be due in February. Since residency for third country nationals is a national matter, Spain won't be breaking any EU rules by making an exception for UK citizens.


How strange, why would they offer that to UK citizens and not to any other country and therby risk pi**ing off EU member countries?
Where did you hear that??


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> How strange, why would they offer that to UK citizens and not to any other country and thereby risk pi**ing off EU member countries?
> Where did you hear that??


Because they know UK provides around 20% of tourism income plus there are many snowbirds and second home owners who contribute to Spanish economy. EU countries are allowed to negotiate deals with non-EU states, such as golden visa. British ambassador Hugh Elliott has said he is aware of UK citizens wanting to stay longer than 90-in-180 days and will speak to the Spanish government about it. On embassy facebook page and foreigner's department newsletter where I live.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Joppa said:


> Because they know UK provides around 20% of tourism income plus there are many snowbirds and second home owners who contribute to Spanish economy. EU countries are allowed to negotiate deals with non-EU states, such as golden visa. British ambassador Hugh Elliott has said he is aware of UK citizens wanting to stay longer than 90-in-180 days and will speak to the Spanish government about it. On embassy facebook page and foreigner's department newsletter where I live.


20 % of tourism means just 2 week holiday makers not parsimonious retired expats, so I dont think it will make a jot of difference if they extend the 90 day period. Plus, anyone who has heard the Spanish minister during the Gibraltar negotiations will know that Spain is in no mood to cut deals to placate the UK. Then, if it was all about economy why have any rules at all? Why just have an exception for Brits?. What about Americans, Canadians, Russians, Chinese, Saudi Arabians? Finally and most importantly: it's about the benefits of free movement which is a cornerstone of the EU. We left because the majority of the electorate didnt like it. Hardly think the EU will hand it back to us on the basis that whilst we dont want Brighton full of loud Spanish people we do want to spend the winters in sunny Spain.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kaipa said:


> 20 % of tourism means just 2 week holiday makers not parsimonious retired expats, so I dont think it will make a jot of difference if they extend the 90 day period. Plus, anyone who has heard the Spanish minister during the Gibraltar negotiations will know that Spain is in no mood to cut deals to placate the UK. Then, if it was all about economy why have any rules at all? Why just have an exception for Brits?. What about Americans, Canadians, Russians, Chinese, Saudi Arabians? Finally and most importantly: it's about the benefits of free movement which is a cornerstone of the EU. We left because the majority of the electorate didnt like it. Hardly think the EU will hand it back to us on the basis that whilst we dont want Brighton full of loud Spanish people we do want to spend the winters in sunny Spain.


Exactly. Genuine tourists aren't affected & will still come.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Joppa said:


> Because they know UK provides around 20% of tourism income plus there are many snowbirds and second home owners who contribute to Spanish economy. EU countries are allowed to negotiate deals with non-EU states, such as golden visa. British ambassador Hugh Elliott has said he is aware of UK citizens wanting to stay longer than 90-in-180 days and will speak to the Spanish government about it. On embassy facebook page and foreigner's department newsletter where I live.


The ambassador doesn't have the clout to negotiate that kind of deal though. He can speak to Spain, of course, but that kind of agreement has be made at a much higher level.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

In 2019 there were roughly 18.5m arrivals from UK of whom, as said, in the vast majority will be Mr & Mrs Average coming for their obligatory fortnight on the Costas. Brexit has little or no effect on them so they will come just the same as they always have.

The proportion of that 18.5m who fall into the holiday home owner or 'Snowbird' categories will be barely measurable and in any case they will still come for their allowed days so all that stands to be lost is what they may have spent during their overstays, an even smaller and more insignificant blip.

While I do have some sympathy for those groups the relative pittance involved mean that their arguments for some sort of special dispensation are destined to fall on deaf ears.


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## Jenny Jitterbug (Aug 26, 2020)

I suppose Spain can make it as difficult as it wants for Brits to come to their county as tourists or residents and spend and invest money. Lets face it Spain is a very wealthy country and has a waiting list to buy all the property they are currently building. Just try and find an unemployed Spanish bricklayer.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jenny Jitterbug said:


> I suppose Spain can make it as difficult as it wants for Brits to come to their county as tourists or residents and spend and invest money. Lets face it Spain is a very wealthy country and has a waiting list to buy all the property they are currently building. Just try and find an unemployed Spanish bricklayer.


No need for sarcasm.

Spain isn't making it difficult for Brits to come on holiday - it's still almost as easy as it was before - or will be once the virus is dealt with.

It's also no more difficult for British citizens to move here than for any other third country citizen.

Those who voted for the UK to leave the EU - & the Britsih govt - are those who have created any barriers.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Jenny Jitterbug said:


> I suppose Spain can make it as difficult as it wants for Brits to come to their county as tourists or residents and spend and invest money. Lets face it Spain is a very wealthy country and has a waiting list to buy all the property they are currently building. Just try and find an unemployed Spanish bricklayer.


You seem to labour under the illusion that only Brits by Spanish property


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## Jenny Jitterbug (Aug 26, 2020)

kaipa said:


> You seem to labour under the illusion that only Brits by Spanish property


Did you mean ‘’by or buy’’?

It all depends if Spain see Brits as worthwhile customers who will benefit their country. As a business would it make any sense to introduce barriers? If the UK is simply a third country how can there be a true BREXIT deal? Is a deal a special arrangement based on sensible business principles or just a jobs worth exercise for politicians and bureaucrats?

Must apply for residence visa from Spanish Consulate that is closed down. That has got to be Spain’s best yet.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Jenny Jitterbug said:


> Did you mean ‘’by or buy’’?
> 
> It all depends if Spain see Brits as worthwhile customers who will benefit their country. As a business would it make any sense to introduce barriers? If the UK is simply a third country how can there be a true BREXIT deal? Is a deal a special arrangement based on sensible business principles or just a jobs worth exercise for politicians and bureaucrats?
> 
> Must apply for residence visa from Spanish Consulate that is closed down. That has got to be Spain’s best yet.


Well according to the local.es.

*How many Brits are now registered as residents in Spain?

Spain's Secretary of State for Migration reported that as of June 30th 2020, there were 366,498 UK citizens with a “certificado de registro” or “tarjeta de residencia” (both residency documents) in Spain, the third biggest foreign population group in the country after Romanians and Moroccans.

Alicante (86,407 UK residents), Málaga (63,571) and the Balearic Islands (29,532) hold the highest number of British residents in Spain.*

So with my CSE Maths (got a 2, so just above average) 

Spain has a population of around 46million, so the British contingent is not even 1% of the total. 

So the only places who may really worry about the loss of us Brits will be the 3 top tourist destinations in Spain (in my opinion) 

And as to the comment about a deal. Depends which side of the fence (or English Channel) you are on. 
Seems to me that the Eu got a reasonable one.


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## HoleInOne (Nov 15, 2015)

Please don’t think my comment to stoking the fire but it’s surely the British home owners in Spain that don’t yet have residency that is the relevant number? The people with residency have already made their biggest investment?

The 2.4 family come to Spain and spend £1000 in two weeks.
The property investor in Spain spends £300k in addition to yearly tax and expenditure amounts does make a significant contribution to GDP...

They would still be a tremendous value in attracting British home owners, in the same way as there is a significant value in Spanish labour in the UK.

This is not meant to be inflammatory just pointing out that everyone who contributes makes an impact on the economy.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

HoleInOne said:


> Please don’t think my comment to stoking the fire but it’s surely the British home owners in Spain that don’t yet have residency that is the relevant number? The people with residency have already made their biggest investment?
> 
> The 2.4 family come to Spain and spend £1000 in two weeks.
> The property investor in Spain spends £300k in addition to yearly tax and expenditure amounts does make a significant contribution to GDP...
> ...


No I agree the tourist and second home income for Spain may make a case for one or two 'special' rules. Or at the minimum a 'swallow visa' for stays of up to 5 months without residency implications. But Im not sure that those in power are that bothered, to be honest.

Again from the local there is this.









What worries British second home owners in Spain most about Brexit


With just days for Brexit to become a reality, we spoke to Brits with property in Spain about their worries for the future in terms of time spent between both countries, higher taxes and other complications they may face come 2021.




www.thelocal.es





It makes reasonable reading and suggests that there are between 800,000 and 1 million Brits who own second homes.
Possibly the largest contingent in Spain (Ive not looked for figures for Danish etc)


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

HoleInOne said:


> The 2.4 family come to Spain and spend £1000 in two weeks.
> The property investor in Spain spends £300k in addition to yearly tax and expenditure amounts does make a significant contribution to GDP...
> 
> They would still be a tremendous value in attracting British home owners, in the same way as there is a significant value in Spanish labour in the UK.
> ...


That purchase is a one time event.

The real question is who benefits? Who is hurt? Just looking at the GDP is the wrong metric.

If UK buyers drive up prices that hurts the locals .

If they cause a shift in building to appeal to the UK buyers that hurts the locals.

In some ways it's no different to AirBnb taking over a town. The GDP goes up. Good? Not if you're a family who can't afford a home. Not if you have a business that depends on locals and not tourists.

It's fairly easy to increase GDP. Bulldoze everything. Rebuild. Repeat. Lots of GDP. Good for the builders. But for the country?


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

I followed the link to the Local and saw this too.

"The Bank of Spain has recently said that Spain’s economy is the most exposed out of all countries in the single market to the negative economic consequences of Brexit.
_Spanish exports to the UK “increased by 9 percent in 2019, equal to 3.4 percent of Spain’s GDP.
According to the British Chamber of Commerce in Andalusia, the UK is also the biggest foreign investor in Spain, with more than €8 billion pumped into the Spanish economy so far in 2020 (56 percent of all foreign investment in the country), resulting in the direct creation of 201,000 jobs.
Nineteen million British tourists visited Spain in 2019, spending €18 billion during their holidays.
They represent the most important market for Spain's tourism industry, which in pre-Covid times accounted for 13 percent of the country's GDP and provided 2.8 million people with work."_

Have seen lots of similar articles in the Spanish press. Whilst UK tourists will still visit Spain the areas on the Andalucian coast which I know will be hit harder if UK property owners are not there as much. Less will buy properties too, fewer Gardeners, cleaners needed. Many restaurants and supermarkets need year round trade. There is the old saying, don't burn down your house to get rid of a rat.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I used to do some work for actually one of the biggest construction companies in Alicante. This was 2 years ago and I remember that they completely rejigged their whole marketing campaign away from the UK market toward France and Scandinavia. This was a direct response to Brexit. I dont think it really mattered a bit to them that the number of British sales were likely to decrease as they simply targeted another nationality. Once you build phased developments for specific nationalities it is easy to sell them. The Spanish market will always remain quite buoyant for foreign sales irrespective of the Brits.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jenny Jitterbug said:


> Did you mean ‘’by or buy’’?
> 
> It all depends if Spain see Brits as worthwhile customers who will benefit their country. As a business would it make any sense to introduce barriers? If the UK is simply a third country how can there be a true BREXIT deal? Is a deal a special arrangement based on sensible business principles or just a jobs worth exercise for politicians and bureaucrats?
> 
> Must apply for residence visa from Spanish Consulate that is closed down. That has got to be Spain’s best yet.


I hasn't 'closed down'. It is temporarily closed due to the covid restrictions issued by the UK government.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Foreign purchase of Spanish property in the 12 months to June 2019 was around 15% of all purchases.

British purchases were 14% of that 15%. - so only about 2% of all purchases were by Brits. That market if it were to be lost would barely be noticed.

Interestingly the last time I looked this up was maybe 5 years ago & that 2% has remained stable since then.









Who are the foreigners buying properties in Spain in 2019? Our detailed analysis


The top three nations remain England, France and Germany. Which nationalities are buying properties in Spain? Where do they buy in Spain? At what prices?




howtobuyinspain.com


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

kaipa said:


> I used to do some work for actually one of the biggest construction companies in Alicante. This was 2 years ago and I remember that they completely rejigged their whole marketing campaign away from the UK market toward France and Scandinavia. This was a direct response to Brexit. I dont think it really mattered a bit to them that the number of British sales were likely to decrease as they simply targeted another nationality. Once you build phased developments for specific nationalities it is easy to sell them. The Spanish market will always remain quite buoyant for foreign sales irrespective of the Brits.


There are many "targeted for specific nationalities" on the Costa del Sol. Swedish bought in places like Fuengirola in the 1980s. The British have always been the largest purchasers. Too soon to guesstimate what will happen. Of course if you read the property agents sites they are always positive.









Compraventas de vivienda realizadas por extranjeros por nacionalidad 2018 | Statista


Esta estadística muestra el número de operaciones de compraventa realizadas por extranjeros en la comunidad autónoma de Andalucía en 2018, según nacionalidad.




es.statista.com


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## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

I don't know why people expect Spain to act unilaterally for Brits when it has delegated this sort of stuff to the EU. Yes it has form in bending its own rules (the Beckham law) but the 90/180 is a Schengen rule, right? Most Spain can probably do is make it easier to get residence or citizenship (passports for investment like Malta and Cyprus, or 2 year naturalisation perhaps).


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Well to be honest I really wouldn't sit around expecting things to change. Brexit has happened and that's that. No one is in the mood to start jigging the rules again. For those who managed to secure their EU rights- well done. For those who didn't- I'm sorry. Spain will keep on getting Brit tourists and maybe new nationalities will retire here. For many young Spanish it will be a disappointment not to be able to study and live in UK as they could before so both sides will suffer. For expats who consider themselves lucky now, unfortunately their number will dwindle over the next 20 years as few newbies will arrive. They will no doubt need to try and integrate themselves more into Spanish life to avoid a Sunset Boulevard like ending


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I work for a large training company in Madrid and the British teachers in this organisation were contacted some days ago with information about paperwork. This is part of the email
_FYI - we have 42 British teachers right now from a total of just over 90 teaching English, so about half. 20 years ago when I started doing this job, Brits were in the very clear majority in TEFL here in Spain, *but this has changed with bilingual teachers from non-English speaking countries joining the workforce as well as of course teachers from other English-speaking countries - Ireland, USA, Canada; Australia, NZ, South Africa etc. My feeling is that post-Brexit the percentage of British teachers will continue to fall* as fewer and fewer new ones make the effort to get a visa and come here. We will see..._
Perhaps the same could be said of British people coming here to live permanently. If the Spanish change things for the British (which as _Si_ has pointed out iwould be difficult as it's a Shenghen condition) it would seem probable that they will be asked to do it for other countries and that would seem improbable. It would likely be a lengthy process as well.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> If the Spanish change things for the British (which as _Si_ has pointed out *it would be difficult as it's a Schengen condition*) it would seem probable that they will be asked to do it for other countries and that would seem improbable. It would likely be a lengthy process as well.


Schengen rules only deal with short-term visitors. Each EU state is free to create rules concerning long-stay, work and retirement visas as they think fit. They are usually applicable to all third country nationals, but they can be tailor-made for particular country's citizens, especially when reciprocity is involved. A good example is working holiday visa for young people. Or it can be completely one-sided, such as UK's ancestry visa for Commonwealth citizens, which existed when UK was in EU and still does.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I have seen no official source suggesting the Spanish government are considering changing immigration rules to accommodate UK nationals who wish to have longer stays in Spain. Why on earth would they do it when they could have attracted huge numbers of wealthy nationals from a whole host of countries?. We are far too UKcentric!!!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

kaipa said:


> I have seen no official source suggesting the Spanish government are considering changing immigration rules to accommodate UK nationals who wish to have longer stays in Spain. Why on earth would they do it when they could have attracted huge numbers of wealthy nationals from a whole host of countries?. We are far too UKcentric!!!


Well, it's too early to start reopening negotiation over citizen's rights beyond those in the withdrawal agreement. They want to assess the situation after the Brexit dust has settled. There are still a large number of applications for residency stuck in the system (including mine, till next week). True economic impact of Brexit such as drop in the number of UK long-stay visitors and second home owners will take a while to emerge and to be evaluated. But I won't rule out Spain making changes at some point in the future if it's in their interest.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Spain ( like any country) will put its citizens before ideas of domestic economy. Spain has continuously said it will only consider agreements based on reciprocity. Any changes for British citizens will require the UK to do something for Spanish nationals. The Spanish government are not going to be making life easier for Brits if the UK limits things for Spanish nationals in UK. Already Spanish nationals can no longer have residency for work or study unless they possess a B1 level of English approved by a UK recognised test. Maybe Spain would like to impose a similar requirement on those who wish to come and take advantage of life in Spain? The majority of British folk feel that foreigners should speak English if they want to live in UK but that everyone and their dog should forsake their language when it comes to British immigrants living abroad!!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Joppa said:


> Well, it's too early to start reopening negotiation over citizen's rights beyond those in the withdrawal agreement. They want to assess the situation after the Brexit dust has settled. There are still a large number of applications for residency stuck in the system (including mine, till next week). True economic impact of Brexit such as drop in the number of UK long-stay visitors and second home owners will take a while to emerge and to be evaluated. But I won't rule out Spain making changes at some point in the future *if it's in their interest.*


..and that's the point. 

I can't see how it would be in Spain's interest. 

Second home owners can still stay for just under six months a year under current rules - just not all in one go. 

Many of course have been staying *far* longer than that, and even the British Consulate told them that it was time to decide where they lived.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

_


Joppa said:



Schengen rules only deal with short-term visitors.* Each EU state is free to create rules concerning long-stay, work and retirement visas as they think fit. *They are usually applicable to all third country nationals, but they can be tailor-made for particular country's citizens, especially when reciprocity is involved. A good example is working holiday visa for young people. Or it can be completely one-sided, such as UK's ancestry visa for Commonwealth citizens, which existed when UK was in EU and still does.

Click to expand...

_Yes, you're right, I had forgotten. I remember countries having different requirements for Romanians.
_


Joppa said:



Well, it's too early to start reopening negotiation over citizen's rights beyond those in the withdrawal agreement. They want to assess the situation after the Brexit dust has settled. There are still a large number of applications for residency stuck in the system (including mine, till next week). True economic impact of Brexit such as drop in the number of UK long-stay visitors and second home owners will take a while to emerge and to be evaluated. But I won't rule out Spain making changes at some point in the future if it's in their interest.

Click to expand...

_Yes, negotiation if any, will be later on, so if this were to happen it would be several years down the line to it being implemented, so not really worth considering at this moment. Reciprocity is a main factor too,
The true impact as you say will take time to emerge, but as I and others have said I imagine it to hit a few towns, mainly in the south. I think reaction to this will also depend on whether the media decides to take it up or not.

I have underlined etc only to try to make the post clearer... I still find the new format in this area to be lacking and I have siad it on the correct thread, but there has been no reaction.


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## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

Joppa said:


> Schengen rules only deal with short-term visitors. Each EU state is free to create rules concerning long-stay, work and retirement visas as they think fit.


This is the issue. As the 'swallows/snowbirds/whatever' trying to retain their UK tax residency will always be short term visitors, the things Spain can offer independent of the EU are useless to them. Unless Spain starts selling passports pretty cheaply or says wannabe residents don't need to prove residency.


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## Jenny Jitterbug (Aug 26, 2020)

xabiaxica said:


> ..and that's the point.
> 
> I can't see how it would be in Spain's interest.
> 
> ...


It may depend on whether UK passports are stamped and offenders are punished enough for overstaying. In the past it seems to have been a blind eye come and go as you like system. I suspect currently there are many illegal overstaying Brits in Spain, how are they ever going to get out?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Jenny Jitterbug said:


> It may depend on whether UK passports are stamped and offenders are punished enough for overstaying. In the past it seems to have been a blind eye come and go as you like system. I suspect currently there are many illegal overstaying Brits in Spain, how are they ever going to get out?


British citizens are already having their passports stamped on their way in or out.

The problem for many might not be as they leave, although they could receive a fine after the end of March when they would have clearly been here more than 90 days if there's no entry stamp in their passport, but when they try to return having already used their 90/180 & finding themselves refused entry.

I suppose some might have no home anywhere other than Spain... This isn't a 90/180 issue - but she isn't a registered resident & has been unable to get back into Spain after a trip to the UK for Xmas...



https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2021/01/16/excl-british-wife-of-chronically-ill-husband-cannot-return-to-spain-unless-he-is-close-to-dying/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=olive%20press&fbclid=IwAR1mEt98aKkYt5Y7lKknudGenY69kTVHJe0Iz0KsUJ_r7S4GU5CAvgtRihE#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss


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## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

This is interesting, it's a blog on avoiding the 90/180 day issue. I assume the author is American, which is the perspective most Brits will see things from now. A highlight from it is that Spain is notoriously easy to leave from undetected if you have overstayed (but the northern euro countries don't skip a beat). 









Your Guide to (Legally) Staying in Europe for More Than 90 Days


Many people want to stay in the Schengen Zone longer than 90 days. This is a guide to show you how to legally do just that!




www.nomadicmatt.com


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

xabiaxica said:


> British citizens are already having their passports stamped on their way in or out.
> 
> The problem for many might not be as they leave, although they could receive a fine after the end of March when they would have clearly been here more than 90 days if there's no entry stamp in their passport, but when they try to return having already used their 90/180 & finding themselves refused entry.
> 
> ...


I wonder how that same issue would have been reported if they were a Moroccan couple?

It states they have "lived in Andalucía for 20 years", but legally that isn't the case is it? Maybe it should say that they have been in Andalucia without the correct paperwork and in contrary to Spain's immigration laws for 20 years...
Or simply they have lived as illegal immigrants in Andalucia for 20 years, but nobody will say that will they, becuase they are white British middle class illegal immigrants.... 

Rant over.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Overandout said:


> I wonder how that same issue would have been reported if they were a Moroccan couple?
> 
> It states they have "lived in Andalucía for 20 years", but legally that isn't the case is it? Maybe it should say that they have been in Andalucia without the correct paperwork and in contrary to Spain's immigration laws for 20 years...
> Or simply they have lived as illegal immigrants in Andalucia for 20 years, but nobody will say that will they, becuase they are white British middle class illegal immigrants....
> ...


I must admit I wonderred why on earth you'd leave registering until the very last minute (December 2020) after having 'lived here' 20 years! 

There is a discussion about the article on FB & plenty have indeed pointed out that at the very least they were living in an 'irregular' situation - plenty more have pulled no punches and called them 'illegal immigrants'.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Overandout said:


> I wonder how that same issue would have been reported if they were a Moroccan couple?
> 
> It states they have "lived in Andalucía for 20 years", but legally that isn't the case is it? Maybe it should say that they have been in Andalucia without the correct paperwork and in contrary to Spain's immigration laws for 20 years...
> Or simply they have lived as illegal immigrants in Andalucia for 20 years, but nobody will say that will they, becuase they are white British middle class illegal immigrants....
> ...



Spain and the EU in general didn't require you to register twenty years ago. When did Spain start requiring people to register? Three/four years ago?

Even with the requirement to register the EU makes it hard to do anything about people who didn't.

So no they weren't illegal for twenty years. 

Obviously they should have but there are plenty of EU nationals all over the EU who don't bother. Blame the EU for making it virtually impossible to do anything about it.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

NickZ said:


> Spain and the EU in general didn't require you to register twenty years ago. When did Spain start requiring people to register? Three/four years ago?
> 
> Even with the requirement to register the EU makes it hard to do anything about people who didn't.
> 
> ...


The requirement to register on the EU citizens came into force in February 2007 (Royal Decree 240/2007), but before that RD, immigrants were required to have TIEs under the "Ley de Extranjería", so if they arrived 20 years ago, they should have had a TIE (as was commonlt called a NIE, but was actually an ID card) which woud have been excahnged for a green certificate after February 2007.
There has never been a "turn up and stay as long as you like" policy.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

xabiaxica said:


> British citizens are already having their passports stamped on their way in or out.
> 
> The problem for many might not be as they leave, although they could receive a fine after the end of March when they would have clearly been here more than 90 days if there's no entry stamp in their passport, but when they try to return having already used their 90/180 & finding themselves refused entry.
> 
> ...


I read that story, and whilst it's a desperately worrying situation for this lady and her husband, I couldn't help but note that the story (if accurate) says that she has lived in Andalucia for 20 years, and only began the process of looking for an appointment to register as a resident in December 2020. After all the publicity there has been about the importance of making sure people living in the EU had their affairs in order


NickZ said:


> Spain and the EU in general didn't require you to register twenty years ago. When did Spain start requiring people to register? Three/four years ago?
> 
> Even with the requirement to register the EU makes it hard to do anything about people who didn't.
> 
> ...


We moved to Spain in 2006, started looking into what formalities we would need to go through in 2005, and were aware then that we would need to register as residents.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

NickZ said:


> Spain and the EU in general didn't require you to register twenty years ago. When did Spain start requiring people to register? Three/four years ago?
> 
> Even with the requirement to register the EU makes it hard to do anything about people who didn't.
> 
> ...


We moved to Spain in 2006 and started looking into what formalities we would need to go through in 2005. We were aware then that we would need to register as residents. When we applied the TIE system (as Overandout says) was in place but they introduced the "green cards" after our application had been submitted and that's what we got. In those days they weren't issued on the spot as the green cards have been.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

[


NickZ said:


> Spain and the EU in general didn't require you to register twenty years ago. When did Spain start requiring people to register? Three/four years ago?
> 
> Even with the requirement to register the EU makes it hard to do anything about people who didn't.
> 
> ...



Spain has always made it incredibly easy for EU citizens to register - and has now made it incredibly easy for British citizens already registered to exchange their green cards/certs for the new TIE.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Overandout said:


> There has never been a "turn up and stay as long as you like" policy.











Registering your residence abroad - Your Europe


For EU nationals – registering your residence with authorities when in another EU country for a stay of more than 3 months, documents you need.




europa.eu







> If you are required to register, you may be *fined* for not doing so but may continue to live in the country and *cannot be expelled* just for this.


Officially you're right but reality is under EU law it's basically stay if you want. 

There have been EU nationals convicted of serious crimes and they can't be asked to leave. 

The fines are less than some minor traffic offenses. 

It's not surprising many haven't registered in the past. They gained little. They risked even less.

Ignore the couple in the story. How many non tourist cars do you see with non local plates? All against the rules. All with invalid insurance (at best) Those people are all risking higher fines for not changing the plates. They still aren't doing it.

Any law that isn't enforced doesn't exist. Just because on paper the requirement was there doesn't mean much.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Regardless, it’s like Xmas , we knew it was coming, and I’m staggered that people decided to disregard following well proposed and known rules for registering as a resident in Spain. Whilst I feel for the couple involve, my sympathy lies only so far, people who didn’t do this and disnt do the other now screaming that there being mistreated. ....
either you’ve been buried under a rock since the brexit vote or you chose to be
nothing to do with the EU or Spain , people need to take individual responsibility for thier own actions and what they do and don’t so when then move to a foreign country... but for some Spain isn’t a foreign country it’s just a little out post of the English.. sorry rant over, grumpy this morning , absolutely knackered


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## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

NickZ said:


> How many non tourist cars do you see with non local plates? All against the rules. All with invalid insurance (at best) Those people are all risking higher fines for not changing the plates. They still aren't doing it.


Car registrations are widely cited but misunderstood example of people breaking laws. There are exceptions that allow people to have foreign vehicles in another country for extended periods of time. These can include being a full time student or only using the vehicle as a holiday home car for up to 6 months. It's all on the Europa site you quoted.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

NickZ said:


> Registering your residence abroad - Your Europe
> 
> 
> For EU nationals – registering your residence with authorities when in another EU country for a stay of more than 3 months, documents you need.
> ...


Where did you study law?

You should ask for a refund.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

_Si_ said:


> Car registrations are widely cited but misunderstood example of people breaking laws. There are exceptions that allow people to have foreign vehicles in another country for extended periods of time. These can include being a full time student or only using the vehicle as a holiday home car for up to 6 months. It's all on the Europa site you quoted.


Such exceptions will be very few and far between.

We all know people who have been flaunting the rules for years, or at least seen their cars parked in their own streets.

From Jan 1st.though they are likely to be in trouble if stopped and can't show an insurance green card and have a GB sticker, EU plates with the star circle are no longer legal.

Not forgetting of course that Spanish residents are not permitted to drive foreign registered cars.

Claim to be a tourist and they will be asked for their passports and possibly proof of their return travel date.

A lot of people have rude awakenings coming and will no doubt be screaming "not fair" or 'nobody told me"!



NickZ said:


> Any law that isn't enforced doesn't exist. Just because on paper the requirement was there doesn't mean much.


It's may exist on a statute book but it's hard to regard anything as a 'law' when there are no consequences or penalties for failing to observing it!


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## alpinist (Feb 8, 2009)

MataMata said:


> Such exceptions will be very few and far between.
> 
> We all know people who have been flaunting the rules for years, or at least seen their cars parked in their own streets.


But this is the problem; you're saying that you know the foreign cars in your street aren't legal because you've seen them in your street, which is no proof at all... If you know the owner it might be another matter, but my comment only relates to the registration. The rest of your post is a credible prediction of course, and a southern Spanish police department might decide to go for a crackdown one day and fill their net quite quickly. But there are also plenty of local citizens in any country that don't tax or insure their cars so the nationality of the licence plate isn't really an indicator of compliance.

Tapping my own anecdotes, pre-Brexit and pre-covid, I could bet pretty much every foreign car in the northern British university city that I lived in would belong to a foreign student and be there quite legally.

In France, I spent years driving over as a posted worker and using my British car for the duration of my 5-6 month contracts. I was stopped by the Gendarmes twice and asked where I was coming from and going to, but it was all about drugs on the motorways - they never asked anything about the car or for any proof of my arrival or departure.

When I moved and was importing my English car to France and then my French car to Spain, I arranged insurance with local companies so that I could keep driving it on the old plates whilst the formalities were under way (there are companies happy to do this). All quite legal but a British plate with French insurance stickers would have got uninformed tongues wagging on many forums.

In a quite rural area of north-western Spain, I was stopped once and breathalysed in my then French car (it was Christmas holidays!); the policeman wasn't at all interested in the car, just my alcohol level.

Living in northern Spain, my street and garage frequently had the same French cars in it and one day a local told me it was a large family that owned a few apartments in the area and came down to visit frequently. They also used to leave one of their cars in the garage for months and fly back and forth - all perfectly legal.

So I'd just like people to think twice before tutting at a car that looks out of place due to a different letter on the plate.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Joppa said:


> WE HAVE NO NEW INFO ON RESIDENCIAS Nerja Foreigners Dept. is receiving many enquiries regarding changing the green resident card to a new TIE resident card or applying for the first time for this TIE card. For the moment we have no news for 2021. So we must wait until the British and Spanish governments come to an agreement on the residencia requirements. Possibly this could be in February. As soon as we have any further info, we will send out a newsletter.


This from a source I trust. I've removed the personal info inculding the consular staff member's name (as per forum rules) , but I have checked that the person is who they say they are.





> This is the latest feedback that our member *** ***
> has had from the Spanish Embassy with relation to whether UK citizens will one day get Schengen Visa extensions and it's not on the cards presently.
> Thank you for your feedback **** always appreciated when members put this level of work in.
> 
> ...


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