# Escrituras



## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

I shouldn't be the only person here with an interest in this question.

Over the years we had numerous properties in the US. For each we had property deeds, closing papers etc. I really can't recall anyone at any point asking us to provide a copy of those documents.

In Mexico, when you 'close' at a notary you get an escritura. In real life - just how personal a document is that ? Let's say you buy into a condo. Does the condo association have a right to a copy of your escritura (which by the way states your purchase price) ? Do they have a right to 'some' of the information it contains, to register you in their association, say ?

I did a little research and it appears that the 'concept' of fiduciary responsibility DOES exist in Mexico. Anyone have a sense if that applies to such areas as 'mesa directivas', 'administrators' and for that matter real estate personnel (or even notaries) ?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

lat19n said:


> I shouldn't be the only person here with an interest in this question.
> 
> Over the years we had numerous properties in the US. For each we had property deeds, closing papers etc. I really can't recall anyone at any point asking us to provide a copy of those documents.
> 
> ...


They are public documents. I have gotten copies of old escrituras from the Registro Público de la Propriedad.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

TundraGreen said:


> They are public documents. I have gotten copies of old escrituras from the Registro Público de la Propriedad.


For property you own ?

I asked a knowlegeble real estate agent the same question and received an answer : "I would not recommend sharing your escrituras, even a simple copy, with anyone unless there is a valid reason." But in fairness - his degree is in chemical enginering....

Edit : and if they are readily available public documents - why would anyone ever need to ask me for mine ?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

lat19n said:


> For property you own ?
> 
> I asked a knowlegeble real estate agent the same question and received an answer : "I would not recommend sharing your escrituras, even a simple copy, with anyone unless there is a valid reason." But in fairness - his degree is in chemical enginering....
> 
> Edit : and if they are readily available public documents - why would anyone ever need to ask me for mine ?


The one I requested was for property I owned but afterwards I used their computers (they had a roomful of them) to look at other documents. I suspect asking you for a copy was easier than other ways to get a copy.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I agree with you, while in the US I never was asked to show my property deeds for anything, including selling, nor did I have to surrender them when selling. The title companies want to go to the source and not have to worry about forged deeds, so they just request a copy from the government directly. Probably in the US one's title insurance document is more important than the actual deed, but who knows, it all goes into the safe-deposit box or fireproof file folder.

For this Mexican condo I'm in the process of buying, my abogado requested the old escritura from the current owner, and he provided it without a fuss (coincidentally, the owner is himself a notario). 

Yes, it showed the reported price of the prior sale. At that point, we had already agreed on a sale price, but not all the other terms for the contract.

The seller advised me to register right away, once the deal closes, as a member of the owners association (well, he would say that, wouldn't he - he wants to be taken off the books so he doesn't get charged for anything anymore after he no longer owns the apartment). I anticipate I'll have to show the escritura to do that.

Now that I will have a significant asset in Mexico, I'll need a Mexican will. The escritura might be needed to write that up, I don't know, it just seems likely to me.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

Regarding wills - we had them done up after buying our house. Not that they were terribly expensive, but here there is a month where wills are half price. I think it was February. The Saturday morning we spent at the notary's office on the wills was interesting. With the 2 or 3 witnesses plus the executor (each of which brought a friend along) it was quite a social event and there was an incredible cross section of humanity ranging from students to very successful professionals. I don't recall needing the escritura, but it was the same notary who had handled our closing. From time to time I have wondered what life changes might require our redoing our wills (like the passing of the executor or such).

I brought up the topic of escrituras because the external administrator for our community is requesting them of all the residents to update the registry of owners. I don't know if that is something that is required every so many years ? We have lived here for many years now, and I'm pretty sure our realtor (who was also the seller's realtor) provided an escritura to assure the proper hand-off of the dues etc. The escritura is a terribly redundant document. It must mention our INM RP credentials and such at least a half dozen times. I'm assuming that there is no need to update the esctitura now that we are citizens.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

lat19n said:


> Regarding wills - we had them done up after buying our house. Not that they were terribly expensive, but here there is a month where wills are half price. I think it was February...


The month of “half-price wills” is September.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

eastwind said:


> I agree with you, while in the US I never was asked to show my property deeds for anything, including selling, nor did I have to surrender them when selling. The title companies want to go to the source and not have to worry about forged deeds, so they just request a copy from the government directly. Probably in the US one's title insurance document is more important than the actual deed, but who knows, it all goes into the safe-deposit box or fireproof file folder.
> 
> For this Mexican condo I'm in the process of buying, my abogado requested the old escritura from the current owner, and he provided it without a fuss (coincidentally, the owner is himself a notario).
> 
> ...


The notario should register the escritura as part of his/her services. It took several months after the deal closed before I got a copy of the registered escritura. Before that it was just called a compra-venta. Also as a foreigner (I was then, now I have Mexican citizenship), I needed Secretaria Relaciones Exteriores (SRE) approval before I could purchase.

Edit: Fix verb tense.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

Now that you mention it - I vaguely remember mention of SRE at our closing. It was handled 100% by the notary and merely amounted to one more quick signature for us.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

lat19n said:


> Now that you mention it - I vaguely remember mention of SRE at our closing. It was handled 100% by the notary and merely amounted to one more quick signature for us.


I had to go to SRE myself, but maybe your notario dealt with more foreign purchases. Mine just told me I had to do it. It was easy. It cost about $5000 pesos which at that time was around $400 or $500 usd.


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## xolo (May 25, 2014)

TundraGreen said:


> I had to go to SRE myself, but maybe your notario dealt with more foreign purchases. Mine just told me I had to do it. It was easy. It cost about $5000 pesos which at that time was around $400 or $500 usd.


I hear you. The notario sent me to SRE for a constancia (of what I don't remember, I think maybe of identity or visa status). I also don't remember the cost, I think it was free.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

In Ajijic the notario or realestate agent got the SRE permit for us but in Chiapas, I did it.. I had to bring the plan of the house ..and a few other things and it was painless ..I do not remember the cost but it was cheap..All foreigners had to have a permit in those days.. I do not know now but 15 years ago it was that way.


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## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2017)

*Escritura and Mexican Will*



eastwind said:


> Now that I will have a significant asset in Mexico, I'll need a Mexican will. The escritura might be needed to write that up, I don't know, it just seems likely to me.


I would be very interested in your process in writing up ( or having ) a Mexican Will for your Mexican properties. I have a similar situation ( though not a HUGE estate in $$$$ ) and tried getting a will created using a US/Mexican attorney - total failure.

My next step was to go to the notary publica here in San Cristobal de Las Casas that issued my Escritura Publica ( with a friend who is fluent in espanol & english ) to prepare a Mexican Will to clearly define my final wishes regarding my Chiapan home in sync with my ownership under the Escritura Publica . . . muchas gracias, y con una sonrisa . . .


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

They (my lawyer on behalf of the bank that will hold the fidiescomo) have asked me for a 'beneficiary'. This is for the trust that holds the property. I first gave a name (my brother) and then they came back and asked for a copy of his passport, which I've provided.

I suspect that therefore a will won't cover the property, which I can't deed to him directly anyway, as he's just as much a foreigner as I am. I suspect the trust will simply convey to him as beneficiary, outside the "will" process. But I will try to do a will anyway to cover other stuff, and I'll see. 

Or not if I have as little luck as you did.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

I had the same notario publico that drew up the escritura on my house do a will for me. In September they are half price. Since I am away from the coasts and borders, there is no problem with my non-Mexican kids owning the house.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

We also live nowhere near a coast. And the same notary handled our closing and wills.

Before coming to Mexico we had US wills. I did some investigating and our Mexican will trumps our US will. A Mexican will can pull assets out of the US - BUT - just to be sure - a specific beneficiary (like an 'in trust for') on any asset trumps ALL wills. So - hopefully we have rendered our US wills void simply with those designations.

In Mexico - the bulk of our assets go to the Hospitales Shriners para Niños in Coyocan. I don't think they will name a wing after us, but we should earn a little bronze plaque...

Finally - I started this thread asking about escrituras. Turns out we weren't the only people in our community hesitant to simply turn those over to the administration. We negotiated that request down to the first and last page - which make no mention of monies etc.


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