# Moving to Portugal - how hard



## mehereathome (Jan 20, 2012)

I am seriously thinking of moving to Portugal.lane: I have two concerns - how hard is it to get work - I have done many things but have had a home based small business for a few years making occasion cakes and loaf cakes to small shops etc. Is it difficult to find work or start something like this in Portugal. Also is the language a real stumbling block - some people have said it is and some it isn't as most people in Portugal speak English.

I will be moving on my own along with two small dogs (well behaved and trained, and yes I do pick up after them religiously). I am considering the silver coast or even more central because housing seems a lot less in these areas and would be interested in some feedback and advice on areas as well.


----------



## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

We came to Portugal about 4 months ago and haven't really found spoken language to be much of a problem but reading Govt comms is sometimes difficult...... esp as they have a few oddities here.... for example, I recently got fined E30 for not being able to show my passport at a traffic check. - I had other photo ID including a pilot's licence but no passport and that's what they wanted. 

As for getting a job in a bakery....... every town and village has several coffee shops and all sell wonderful bread and cakes but I'd guess most are made by the family of the individual owners. (I could be wrong in that assumption) and I'd guess work in that particular field would be pretty much a closed shop to outsiders..... esp outsiders who don't speak Portuguese.


----------



## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

travelling-man said:


> We came to Portugal about 4 months ago and haven't really found spoken language to be much of a problem but reading Govt comms is sometimes difficult...... esp as they have a few oddities here.... for example, I recently got fined E30 for not being able to show my passport at a traffic check. - I had other photo ID including a pilot's licence but no passport and that's what they wanted.


That's because UK has no ID card so only acceptable legal ID is a UK Passport, and like a lot of European countries carrying ID is mandatory here. We carry a Notarised copy of Passport for safeties sake and never had a problem.

Works difficult for the Portuguese so for a non Portuguese speaker very very difficult, you need a sort after skill to stand any chance of employment. 
A home baking business won't get off the ground too much competition and too many hurdles to meet.


----------



## andyp65 (Sep 22, 2009)

The language barrier can be overcome in easier settings but when you are looking at working or setting up a business, administration becomes impossible without help if you are new to the language (even if you are not so new), like posted before I would be surprised if there were any openings in an established bakery especially not knowing the language, if you are surrounded by expats you may be able to sell homemade cakes but whether this would be sufficient income..... setting up a business over here is hard work, I have gone through this recently and am still jumping through hoops as far as my office is concerned and I am guessing it would be a nightmare when dealing with food, unemployment is at an 18 year high here and the standard of living is much lower than the UK anyway and so with low wages and lack of jobs unless you can come up with something sustainable work wise I would suggest now is not a good time to be considering Portugal............however beautiful it is.


----------



## mehereathome (Jan 20, 2012)

Thank you for your replies, that is disappointing news. I was thinking of providing baked goodies to the expat community - Bakewell Tarts, chocolate sponges, lemon drizzle, chelsea buns, etc. It was a bit of a nightmare here trying to get the council to approve the kitchen and finally persuading them that I did not need three sinks and a dishwasher to bake a cake!!! My other consideration is France so may look at that now a little more seriously but still keep my ear to the ground for Portugal.


----------



## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Sorry it's not the news you'd like, but if you need to work to live, it's better to receive some honestly on the situation, rather than the rosy view, the big problem with your idea is maybe misunderstanding the numbers of expats and their grouping, there are very few places anywhere in Portugal that would have the concentration or the need for home baking to work. 

France is dearer than Portugal, currently with a bit of an exodus of expats moving.


----------



## mehereathome (Jan 20, 2012)

Absolutely - rosy colored glasses are wonderful but you do eventually have to take them off. I do need to work - don't need to make a fortune as wouldn't have a mortgage but obviously still living expenses and taxes to be considered. Really just want out of the UK as it is going rapidly downhill and don't see it improving anytime soon.

I did used to be an estate agent and was pretty good at it so might be an option to come and see if I can secure a job and then the move would be made easier and make more sense.

I do very much appreciate your honesty and think others would as well.


----------



## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

Personally I love British style baking and would always buy Victoria sandwich, scones etc but I am not in Portugal. I am in Egypt and Spain.. 

Maiden


----------



## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

So do we, but would you or us buy enough per week, month to support a business, more importantly is there a big enough concentration of expats in one area to support it, and the realistic answer is no, for pocket money but certainly not to provide an income.

If I was mehereathome then I would visit, meet a few expats, go an have a chat with unionjacs, andyp65 and get some feel for the area and possibility of employment, better to invest in a few weeks solid research on the ground.


----------



## mehereathome (Jan 20, 2012)

MaidenScotland said:


> Personally I love British style baking and would always buy Victoria sandwich, scones etc but I am not in Portugal. I am in Egypt and Spain..
> 
> Maiden


Hi there - got your private message but there was nowhere I could find to allow a response. The thread looks really interesting and will enquire further - hadn't thought about going down that route but most definitely worth considering. I do reasonably well here but think I will definitely have to investigate a lot further if moving abroad. Will be a while yet as have to sell house here and it is not the best market at the moment.

I really do want out of the UK so quite prepared to work as hard as I need to but also have to mix that with a bit of down to earth realism. Might as work hard in lovely sunshine as opposed to working hard in drizzle and cold!!!!!


----------



## andyp65 (Sep 22, 2009)

mehereathome said:


> Hi there - got your private message but there was nowhere I could find to allow a response. The thread looks really interesting and will enquire further - hadn't thought about going down that route but most definitely worth considering. I do reasonably well here but think I will definitely have to investigate a lot further if moving abroad. Will be a while yet as have to sell house here and it is not the best market at the moment.
> 
> I really do want out of the UK so quite prepared to work as hard as I need to but also have to mix that with a bit of down to earth realism. Might as work hard in lovely sunshine as opposed to working hard in drizzle and cold!!!!!


I agree, wouldnt move back at all, there are ways of making money out here but you really need to have a plan and if you want to go down the route of earning from expats you need to know your market, as suggested previously if you come over on a fact finding mission feel free to stop by my office i can give you some pointers, no problem. Dont give up on your dreams...........just be prepared as possible.
Andy


----------



## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

mehereathome said:


> Hi there - got your private message but there was nowhere I could find to allow a response. The thread looks really interesting and will enquire further - hadn't thought about going down that route but most definitely worth considering. I do reasonably well here but think I will definitely have to investigate a lot further if moving abroad. Will be a while yet as have to sell house here and it is not the best market at the moment.
> 
> I really do want out of the UK so quite prepared to work as hard as I need to but also have to mix that with a bit of down to earth realism. Might as work hard in lovely sunshine as opposed to working hard in drizzle and cold!!!!!




Hi 
You cant respond just now but that is no problem.. I just sent the link so that you can see what is about. 
Naiden


----------



## mehereathome (Jan 20, 2012)

andyp65 said:


> I agree, wouldnt move back at all, there are ways of making money out here but you really need to have a plan and if you want to go down the route of earning from expats you need to know your market, as suggested previously if you come over on a fact finding mission feel free to stop by my office i can give you some pointers, no problem. Dont give up on your dreams...........just be prepared as possible.
> Andy


Hi Andy .....

That is really very kind of you. I agree that I need a fact finding mission first. I also think it might make more sense to rent for a year before using all my capital to buy a house and then immediately having to start worrying about covering living expenses. If that is the route I take I will be seeking some financial advice which I believe is what you do. I will keep you informed of my plans.


----------



## andyp65 (Sep 22, 2009)

mehereathome said:


> Hi Andy .....
> 
> That is really very kind of you. I agree that I need a fact finding mission first. I also think it might make more sense to rent for a year before using all my capital to buy a house and then immediately having to start worrying about covering living expenses. If that is the route I take I will be seeking some financial advice which I believe is what you do. I will keep you informed of my plans.


Absolutely makes sense to rent first, there are so many beautiful places to live here and there are so many bargains and there will be for the foreseeable future, so no rush come out find your feet and start to enjoy the sun. Anything i can do to help feel free to contact me.

Andy


----------



## jamesburnell (Feb 12, 2012)

*Moving to portugal, how hard is it?*



mehereathome said:


> Thank you for your replies, that is disappointing news. I was thinking of providing baked goodies to the expat community - Bakewell Tarts, chocolate sponges, lemon drizzle, chelsea buns, etc. It was a bit of a nightmare here trying to get the council to approve the kitchen and finally persuading them that I did not need three sinks and a dishwasher to bake a cake!!! My other consideration is France so may look at that now a little more seriously but still keep my ear to the ground for Portugal.


Away from the algarve, work is scarce I would imagine! even in the algarve, things a lot quieter than previous years, unless you are happy to work in a bar or restaurant, and that is very seasonal. A lot cheaper to live inland and scenery is great. France too is very hard to get work, for the French, let alone expats, so sorry to bring bad news, it is not a good time all over, james


----------



## mehereathome (Jan 20, 2012)

jamesburnell said:


> Away from the algarve, work is scarce I would imagine! even in the algarve, things a lot quieter than previous years, unless you are happy to work in a bar or restaurant, and that is very seasonal. A lot cheaper to live inland and scenery is great. France too is very hard to get work, for the French, let alone expats, so sorry to bring bad news, it is not a good time all over, james


Hi James ...

No don't worry at all, I would rather know up front as opposed to everybody giving me the rosey glasses view. I have actually ruled out France, never really liked France if I am being honest so am going to come to Portugal. I am going to be going I think anyway to the Silver Coast and just a bit inland. Have also decided to rent first while I get my bearings so that I don't have to immediately have to start whittling about living costs while I get sorted (unless of course an absolute bargain presents itself). Figure I might as well be broke and miserable where the sun is shining and the surf beckons and things are more relaxed than being broke where the sun never seems to shine and everybody is stressed out of their minds!!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully be there before to much longer, certainly hope to be celebrating Christmas somewhere different this year.

Thanks for your advice.


----------



## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

There is a further consideration you need to factor into your plans, Social Security equivalent of UK NI, works very differently here and a lot dearer than UK, as at some stage you appear to need an income to live or the hope of any future pension it's an important consideration.


----------



## mehereathome (Jan 20, 2012)

canoeman said:


> There is a further consideration you need to factor into your plans, Social Security equivalent of UK NI, works very differently here and a lot dearer than UK, as at some stage you appear to need an income to live or the hope of any future pension it's an important consideration.


Hi there ...

Yes, I understand it is somewhere between 25-30% of income if self employed and a shared contribution if you are employed. Have been doing a bit of reading up on how the health system and employment works, so while it isn't totally clear I think I am beginning to garner a bit of an understanding.

I think as anytime you move to a different country there are things that are more expensive and things that are less. Just have to stop making comparisons constantly or drive yourself bonkers.

I know it is not all going to be a walk in the park but I honestly don't see that it can be any harder than it is in the UK at the moment. Hopefully I won't be proven wrong.


----------



## andyp65 (Sep 22, 2009)

You can only be as prepared as a situation allows, you will find when you get over here there will be surprises both good and bad but as long as you are prepared to accept that not everything will pan out as you expect and you and you can roll with the blows then the sun and the sea and a few glasses of wine take care of the rest.


----------



## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

andyp65 said:


> You can only be as prepared as a situation allows, you will find when you get over here there will be surprises both good and bad but as long as you are prepared to accept that not everything will pan out as you expect and you and you can roll with the blows then the sun and the sea and a few glasses of wine take care of the rest.



Nicely put Andy :clap2:


----------



## mehereathome (Jan 20, 2012)

siobhanwf said:


> Nicely put Andy :clap2:


Sounds good to me. Always figure if it weren't for the bad things we wouldn't know when good things happen so have to have a little bit of both.


----------



## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

mehereathome said:


> Hi there ...
> 
> Yes, I understand it is somewhere between 25-30% of income if self employed and a shared contribution if you are employed. Have been doing a bit of reading up on how the health system and employment works, so while it isn't totally clear I think I am beginning to garner a bit of an understanding.
> 
> ...


Great to see you are, so many just don't bother and find making transition difficult and far more costly than they invisaged


----------

