# Dangerous dog



## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Ok, the problem in a nutshell is our neighbour (Spanish and who hates the English or anyone who isn't Spanish) has two dogs, both large, one of whom is a softie, the other is quite vicious. Twice he has opened his gate to let his dogs attack other dogs even when they were with their owners on leashes. We often leave our large garden gates open when we are expecting visitors etc. He regularly goes up and down the track on his motorbike (his two young daughters on the bike with no head protection, of course) with his dogs chasing him. If our gates are open they charge in and attack our cats. The cats, being smarter than dogs, escape into the trees. Yesterday, however, the vicious dog came in and spotted our 2 yr old lad. The dog began growling and snarling and approached the boy. Of course, Mum was only feet away and grabbed our lad and screamed at the dog. The two young girls tried to pull him away but not until the owner arrived was the dog forced to leave. One of our other neighbours, who's own dog was attacked by this animal, is already talking to some more influential Spanish folk about the matter. Question is, is there anything we can do?? I'm not certain of the breed but I think it certainly has Staff in him. Yes, we can keep our gates closed but we have to open them to get out in the car etc. And on top of that, one of our cats suffered a very bad gash in his stomach last night amid cries of gato and los gato from our neighbour. He is being stiched up as I write this.

Any advice anyone?


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2012)

thrax said:


> Ok, the problem in a nutshell is our neighbour (Spanish and who hates the English or anyone who isn't Spanish) has two dogs, both large, one of whom is a softie, the other is quite vicious. Twice he has opened his gate to let his dogs attack other dogs even when they were with their owners on leashes. We often leave our large garden gates open when we are expecting visitors etc. He regularly goes up and down the track on his motorbike (his two young daughters on the bike with no head protection, of course) with his dogs chasing him. If our gates are open they charge in and attack our cats. The cats, being smarter than dogs, escape into the trees. Yesterday, however, the vicious dog came in and spotted our 2 yr old lad. The dog began growling and snarling and approached the boy. Of course, Mum was only feet away and grabbed our lad and screamed at the dog. The two young girls tried to pull him away but not until the owner arrived was the dog forced to leave. One of our other neighbours, who's own dog was attacked by this animal, is already talking to some more influential Spanish folk about the matter. Question is, is there anything we can do?? I'm not certain of the breed but I think it certainly has Staff in him. Yes, we can keep our gates closed but we have to open them to get out in the car etc. And on top of that, one of our cats suffered a very bad gash in his stomach last night amid cries of gato and los gato from our neighbour. He is being stiched up as I write this.
> 
> Any advice anyone?



I'm not being flippant but if the owner is being so irresponsible (aggressive) then I'd be laying my hands on a .22 rifle and taking matters in to my own hands. Discreetly as possible of course.

Especially if my kin were at risk. Or you could tempt the dog in with some meat that is LACED with a very effective poison. 

This is not a matter to be left to resolve itself. People (your family) are at risk so offence rather than defence. Even a shovel over the head. Once that dog is on your property surely not judge in the land could find you guilty of anything other than protecting your family.


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

This isn't the dog's fault and he shouldn't suffer because of the ******* owner.

Either pull the guy on his own (cos they got no bottle) or find someone with a bad reputation in town, give him a good drink, and let him have a word in the guy's ear.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Danny&Claire said:


> I'm not being flippant but if the owner is being so irresponsible (aggressive) then I'd be laying my hands on a .22 rifle and taking matters in to my own hands. Discreetly as possible of course.
> 
> Especially if my kin were at risk. Or you could tempt the dog in with some meat that is LACED with a very effective poison.
> 
> This is not a matter to be left to resolve itself. People (your family) are at risk so offence rather than defence. Even a shovel over the head. Once that dog is on your property surely not judge in the land could find you guilty of anything other than protecting your family.


I think I would go to the policia local or seprona pronto. This is not a matter which should be left - if a young child is at risk something should be done and quickly.

Please - not poison - but certainly I would defend my own using violence if necessary. 

Last week we were sitting outside our local bar with our dogs when we were attacked by a really vicious GSD. I had to reach under the table where it had our Yorkie in its mouth and pull it out by the tale. I dragged it across the road and was about to kill it when it's owner arrived to save it. She was apologetic in the extreme but this was the second time this particular dog had done this in a week - and still it wasn't on a chain.

What's slightly worrying is that these same rather irresponsible owners also have a tiger.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jimenato said:


> I think I would go to the policia local or seprona pronto. This is not a matter which should be left - if a young child is at risk something should be done and quickly.
> 
> Please - not poison - but certainly I would defend my own using violence if necessary.
> 
> ...




while I see where Danny & Xtreme are coming from - I think your suggestion has to be the best one

at least then it has been officially reported / the neighbour denounced (& I don't think it matters one bit whether or not the dog is on the list if it's vicious)


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> while I see where Danny & Xtreme are coming from


Ireland and Wales by the look of it Lynn. We don't have all those social graces.....we ****e anywhere!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

XTreme said:


> Ireland and Wales by the look of it Lynn. We don't have all those social graces.....we ****e anywhere!


celts - say no more.......







joke btw


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jimenato said:


> I think I would go to the policia local or seprona pronto. This is not a matter which should be left - if a young child is at risk something should be done and quickly.
> 
> Please - not poison - but certainly I would defend my own using violence if necessary.
> 
> ...


Is that last line a joke, Simon???

Yes, thrax should issue a denuncia. People like that are the neighbourhood bullies who make decent folks' lives hell. Someone has to stand up to them and feeble woman though I may be, I wouldn't hesitate.

It's not the dog's fault, it's the ignorant, criminally responsible owner. True, I'd be tempted to reach for a gun (if I had one) if a vicious dog burst into my property and threatened any animal life, human or canine. But the right thing to do is involve the law. Perhaps the other neighbours would support you - they must be sick of this thug.

I hope your dog is OK, Simon. Our Little Azor was attacked a couple of weeks ago by a large dog, some kind of Italian mountain dog...Its owners were German, it was off the leash. We unleashed Azor so he could defend himself and using his superior agility and intelligence he soon had the dog on its back...He could have torn its throat out but walked away when we called him to us.

I am sick of our dog being attacked and actually bitten several times by other dogs. He is big and muscular enough to despatch any dog of any size but we don't want him to become aggressive in those situations. Our fear is that one day he will snap and actually kill the dog whose attack is the last straw.
He is our pet, not an offensive weapon or some kind of symbol of brute strength and I want him to stay gentle and docile.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

report it & him every time. XT's is the only approach. 
Iron bar through front wheel of bike as he goes past. Preferably when he's on it alone .
Buy some pepper spray/mace , yes it is legal here, & gas him as he's riding past.
Park car right at open gates , when he starts doing the wheelies & racing up & down , pull out & knock him off. Best done after reporting him a few times. Render assistance but put the old Timpson in first. Ring for police , make denuncia for everytbing he won't have; tax, ins; helmet itv , etc, Always ensure you have 20 witnesses.


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## donz (May 5, 2010)

totally agree, it is not the dogs fault, neither does it matter what breed he has in him. Staffies are actually known as the nanny dog because of how good they are with children (if they are not mistreated or raised to be a fighting machine!)

Often the Spanish like their dogs in the campo to be guard dogs and appear vicious. Mostly, these dogs are left 5 days a week to fend for themselves and have no human interaction = poor socialisation  Either that or they live outdoors and don't know how to deal with any other human, apart from the goat herder who they ADORE

Denuncia & Seprona are next steps


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

gus-lopez said:


> report it & him every time. XT's is the only approach.
> Iron bar through front wheel of bike as he goes past. Preferably when he's on it alone .
> Buy some pepper spray/mace , yes it is legal here, & gas him as he's riding past.
> Park car right at open gates , when he starts doing the wheelies & racing up & down , pull out & knock him off. Best done after reporting him a few times. Render assistance but put the old Timpson in first. Ring for police , make denuncia for everytbing he won't have; tax, ins; helmet itv , etc, Always ensure you have 20 witnesses.


So....mace and pepper spray are legal here? Where can you get them?

You could buy all kinds of horrible looking 'defensive' weaponry in Prague, everything from pepper spray to vicious knoves to knuckledusters to guns -the latter illegal but easily obtainable.

I'm worried about another break-in this winter....we've had one but there's been a spate of burglaries lately, some in broad daylight, some at night. In the winter months our street is deserted and there's a lot of space between us and one of our neighbours. The neighbour on the other side often spends weekends at their finca so we are quite isolated.

Our dog is a good deterrent and protector but I wouldn't want him hurt protecting us.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Many thanks for all the comments. First off, I would never willingly hurt an animal in any way other than in defence. so if I caught the dog attacking me (easy to spot) or the OH or worse the young lad, the dog is as good as dead. We have considered denuncia but then we live in the campo and have to exist next to him. The Spanish tend to get a bit iffy when they have had a denuncia (I have been told). Our friendly neighbour is in fact chatting to a guy who owns most of Nerja and gives our esteemed neighbour a lot of painting work. I'll get a report back tonight hopefully. On another note, the cat was definitely not bitten by the dog. Worse, the vet thinks the cat was stabbed. Can't think which lowlife might have done that. Paco is a Franco era survivor and as such is very short (and very fat and ugly too but I don't blame him for that) and unusually I find I tower over him so a not so friendly chat might be on the cards. Having said that, he has family further up the road, a lot of them, and they outnumber me by abnout 20 to one. Now whilst those odds still leave my stiff British upper lip on the winning side, I might have to desist. My friendly neighbour is a well known classical conductress and is very good friends with the local police chief having taught his kids music at the local college. If the police it has to be I think that might be the solution. Of course, everybody here knows everybody else and it wouldn't surprise me if the police chief is the second cousin of Paco's third uncle's sister', brother's hairdresser's gibbon, so I'll tread carefully. 

Please all be reassured I am taking this matter very seriously but I ain't gonna let it get me down.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

The Policia Local are not usually any good being little more than traffic wardens. You need to get to the Guardia Civil because if the dog really does cause harm, then it will be their job to act and they would rather be in on it from the start.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Is that last line a joke, Simon???


No, they have a tiger


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> So....mace and pepper spray are legal here? Where can you get them?
> 
> .


Normally anywhere that sells knives , guns , etc. Tienda de armas. Possibly fishing shops .
Apparently their are two types, one that sprays over a wide area, like a spray effect and the other that is more direct, i.e. like the spray bottles when you can change the nozzle to direct the spray. Advice is to get the more direct one ,usually the more expensive of the two , as the other one can have a "fall out" over you if in the wrong place. The best one will project about 10 metres.

" En España el spray de pimienta aprobado, hecho de un 5% de CS está disponible para cualquier persona mayor de 18 años. Recientemente se ha aprobado el uso civil de algunos spray de pimienta OC (por ejemplo uno de 22 gramos, con nº de registro DGSP-07-22-SDP, aprobado por el Ministerio de Sanidad y Consumo)."

" In Spain, approved pepper spray made with 5% CS is available to anyone older than 18 years.OC pepper spray was recently adopted for some civilian use (e.g., one of 22 grams, with no registration DGSP-07-22-SDP, is approved by the Ministry of Health and Consumption)."

From here;

Pepper spray - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jimenato said:


> No, they have a tiger


Isn't this on the wrong thread? Shouldn't it be on the "Dangerous Cat" thread?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

gus-lopez said:


> Normally anywhere that sells knives , guns , etc. Tienda de armas. Possibly fishing shops .
> Apparently their are two types, one that sprays over a wide area, like a spray effect and the other that is more direct, i.e. like the spray bottles when you can change the nozzle to direct the spray. Advice is to get the more direct one ,usually the more expensive of the two , as the other one can have a "fall out" over you if in the wrong place. The best one will project about 10 metres.
> 
> " En España el spray de pimienta aprobado, hecho de un 5% de CS está disponible para cualquier persona mayor de 18 años. Recientemente se ha aprobado el uso civil de algunos spray de pimienta OC (por ejemplo uno de 22 gramos, con nº de registro DGSP-07-22-SDP, aprobado por el Ministerio de Sanidad y Consumo)."
> ...


Thanks, Gus. I'll get some. Word will get around -it obviously already has - that two women live in this house and we don't intend to be defenceless...


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Ok, update time. Our nice neighbour, not the nasty one, had words with our landlord yesterday evening and he is going to pay our neighbourly pillock a visit in the next few days and advise him about the law regarding dangerous dogs. Should this have no effect, he will issue a denuncia against him.


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## virgil (May 3, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Is that last line a joke, Simon???
> 
> Yes, thrax should issue a denuncia. People like that are the neighbourhood bullies who make decent folks' lives hell. Someone has to stand up to them and feeble woman though I may be, I wouldn't hesitate.
> 
> ...


That's the thing about R/Ridgebacks, Mary, they'll never start trouble, but usually finish it


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Latest is that our landlord has spoken to the esteemed Paco and asked if the dog was registered, licenced and muzzled. The answer was no to all. He was told that unless the dog was muzzled and also it was not to be allowed outside, then a denuncia would be issued. Of course, Paco denied any knowledge of the dog being allowed out but promised, most humbly, not to let it our again. We keep watch....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

thrax said:


> Latest is that our landlord has spoken to the esteemed Paco and asked if the dog was registered, licenced and muzzled. The answer was no to all. He was told that unless the dog was muzzled and also it was not to be allowed outside, then a denuncia would be issued. Of course, Paco denied any knowledge of the dog being allowed out but promised, most humbly, not to let it our again. We keep watch....


That's good...

I should have thanked you earlier for the excellent advice you gave.

You and dunmovin are Caballeros


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> That's good...
> 
> I should have thanked you earlier for the excellent advice you gave.
> 
> You and dunmovin are Caballeros


I don't know about thrax but Dunmovin, I'm sure, has a touch of the Don Quixote about him so just make sure you keep your windmills properly chained up and inside!


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## FletchinFrance (Aug 25, 2012)

Fletch in France.

A simple, free and effective deterrent to your problem is a large bucket of dirty water. What you choose to add to the water is your choice. Keep the bucket full and close at hand on your property, when the offending animal(s) arrive on your property let them have it. A large dose of heating oil included in the contents is not only detested by the animal, but also has a profound effect on the owner when the dog arrives home. This treatment is also effective on cats and swans, not that you will have many of the latter.

Happy dunking. Fletch in France,


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> I don't know about thrax but Dunmovin, I'm sure, has a touch of the Don Quixote about him so just make sure you keep your windmills properly chained up and inside!


And I should have included you under that heading of 'caballero'......How could I have left you out


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> And I should have included you under that heading of 'caballero'......How could I have left you out


No No No, yo soy el caballo (el c*lo!) no el caballero.

There is an eating establishment in Bogotá called Crepes and Waffles and as placemats they have printed cartoons one of which was a campesino sitting on his burro and the caption was "An ass sitting on his ass on his ass" (if the stupid swearing filter drops on that one it was a three lettered word beginning with 'a' and the last two letters are double 's' referring to an animal that vaguely resembles a mule/donkey/horse)


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> No No No, yo soy el caballo (el c*lo!) no el caballero.
> 
> There is an eating establishment in Bogotá called Crepes and Waffles and as placemats they have printed cartoons one of which was a campesino sitting on his burro and the caption was "An ass sitting on his ass on his ass" (if the stupid swearing filter drops on that one it was a three lettered word beginning with 'a' and the last two letters are double 's' referring to an animal that vaguely resembles a mule/donkey/horse)


Are you sure it's not in S****horpe?


Damn!!!! The sweary filter isn't playing today!!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Are you sure it's not in S****horpe?


No the stupid thing accepted the equine animal but rejected the spanish rear end!


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> I don't know about thrax but Dunmovin, I'm sure, has a touch of the Don Quixote about him so just make sure you keep your windmills properly chained up and inside!



has swmbo been using those funny mushrooms in her cooking again? or have you just re-read the book again?

I have nothing against windmills. Those sodding great things they call wind turbines, are different matter (the discreet ones for home use, no problem):ranger::ranger::ranger:


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> Are you sure it's not in S****horpe?
> 
> 
> Damn!!!! The sweary filter isn't playing today!!


ahh you mean " if Typoo put the "T" in Britain, Who done that to S****horpe"

the filter is working today


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

Back to topic: if anyone else finds themselves in a similar position, before you take "direct action" consult a lawyer to find out your legal options,(maybe that threat of legal action against the owner is enough,without doing an denuncia or involving the Guardia Civil) inform the town hall of the problem. (a "little chat" from there might be enough to discourage them)


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Mary took little Azor to the vet. 'My dog is cross-eyed, is there anything you can do for him?'
'Well,' said the vet, 'let's have a look at him'
So he picks the dog up and examines his eyes, then he checks his teeth. Finally, he says, 'I'm going to have to put him down.'
'What? Because he's cross-eyed?'
'No, because he's really heavy'


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

dunmovin said:


> ahh you mean " if Typoo put the "T" in Britain, Who done that to S****horpe"
> 
> the filter is working today


you're cheating 




mrypg9 said:


> Are you sure it's not in S****horpe?
> 
> 
> Damn!!!! The sweary filter isn't playing today!!


we tweaked that months ago -I can't believe it took you so long to notice :rofl:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> you're cheating
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, I hadn't noticed..but then I had no occasion to refer to that beautiful seaside town...


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

thrax said:


> Latest is that our landlord has spoken to the esteemed Paco and asked if the dog was registered, licenced and muzzled. The answer was no to all. He was told that unless the dog was muzzled and also it was not to be allowed outside, then a denuncia would be issued. Of course, Paco denied any knowledge of the dog being allowed out but promised, most humbly, not to let it our again. We keep watch....


Any news on this one? Is everything OK?


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## FletchinFrance (Aug 25, 2012)

thrax said:


> Ok, the problem in a nutshell is our neighbour (Spanish and who hates the English or anyone who isn't Spanish) has two dogs, both large, one of whom is a softie, the other is quite vicious. Twice he has opened his gate to let his dogs attack other dogs even when they were with their owners on leashes. We often leave our large garden gates open when we are expecting visitors etc. He regularly goes up and down the track on his motorbike (his two young daughters on the bike with no head protection, of course) with his dogs chasing him. If our gates are open they charge in and attack our cats. The cats, being smarter than dogs, escape into the trees. Yesterday, however, the vicious dog came in and spotted our 2 yr old lad. The dog began growling and snarling and approached the boy. Of course, Mum was only feet away and grabbed our lad and screamed at the dog. The two young girls tried to pull him away but not until the owner arrived was the dog forced to leave. One of our other neighbours, who's own dog was attacked by this animal, is already talking to some more influential Spanish folk about the matter. Question is, is there anything we can do?? I'm not certain of the breed but I think it certainly has Staff in him. Yes, we can keep our gates closed but we have to open them to get out in the car etc. And on top of that, one of our cats suffered a very bad gash in his stomach last night amid cries of gato and los gato from our neighbour. He is being stiched up as I write this.
> 
> Any advice anyone?


Fletch in France.

Your cat is probably more intelligent than the owner of the offending dogs. As a dog owner and a new subscriber to this forum system and as someone who has had experience with the training of dogs, refer to my previous post. Have a large bucket of dirty water, containing heating /sump oil, when the dog enters your property, let him have it, he wont attack you. The contents of the bucket, regularly applied, ON YOUR PROPERTY, WILL NOT HARM THE DOG, unless he drinks it. But it will have a satisfying effect on the owner when the animal arrives back in the house. Bonne chance. Fletch in France.


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## GUAPACHICA (Jun 30, 2012)

Hi Thrax - how is your cat, now? A terrible injury to an innocent animal - just like the one to Alcalaina's kitten - you have to wonder how these brave men treat their own families..! 

I used to train large dogs in the UK - my own and those of other owners. One client had been maimed in a local park ( the top joint of his thumb was bitten off!), whilst attempting to save his Belgian Shepherd from a savage and unprovoked attack by a loose GSD owned by a local drug addict. Whilst the resulting court case caused this woman to be evicted from her Council flat, she was requested, but not legally required, to muzzle her dog! 
So, my client decided to purchase an electronic bull prod ( battery- operated), and this, secreted in a plastic bag held tightly in his hand, accompanied him on all future walks in that park,, once both he and his beautiful gentle dog had recovered from their horrific injuries! 

In my own case, I did make use, several times, in Asturias, of the small 'dog deterrent' device, similar to a TV's remote control, which emits a series of high frequency 'beeps' - heard and avoided by dogs of all sizes, whilst causing no lasting harm. 

This device is also directional, so can be pointed away from your own pets, whilst walking alongside you - and will deter loose dogs from coming too close - the makers call it the 'living fence' as it will stop dogs in their tracks! It certainly worked for me, in both the UK and Spain, when out walking with my own GSDs - no further attacks by other people's aggressive dogs en route!

In Canada, many postmen now carry such devices as protection from dog attacks!
They were being promoted for use by posties also in the UK - am not sure if that idea was taken up or not.

The key thing is to purchase only a high quality brand - not a cheap copy which won't be reliable. I discovered this great little machine via a 'Walking Guide' book series - on the website concerned, many hikers have claimed that even wild mammals have been deterred, as well as packs of village street dogs in various countries!

I'd personally never use poison - a horrific, slow death for any animal! Once in the environment it's liable to be eaten by wild mammals (themselves then providing food for birds), or even your own cats. Your young son could possibly also be at risk from proximity to such chemicals - one of my dogs in England once found and ate part of a poisoned fox dumped in my country garden by a hunter, furious at my challenge to his 'right' to kill wild mammals on my land! A 6 hour emergency operation to save this lovely dog's life ensued - our Vet was magnificent and did succeed after a heroic effort, thank goodness. 

The Spanish Law does, in fact, require 'dangerous' dogs to be muzzled and leashed, regardless of their breed. Denuncias are collected and added up by the Police to help make a case against the owner concerned. I would sign one, highlighting the incident involving your son - that alone would be a very powerful example for any Judge, and might well cause this neighbour to change his behaviour, fast! Certainly, a detailed record of all occurrences involving this man and his dog should be kept, in case of future need.

I wouldn't want to trust my cats outside, unsupervised, however - poison could easily be thrown over your fence and made very palatable, sadly!

GC


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

This sort of "training" sickens me,as in the end,the dog will be the one to lose life. Either some person will give it a "lead injection between the ears,administered with a shotgun" or authorities will have it put down.
Dogs of any size/breed can be either angels or a demon brought from Hell.Our wee flossie (a pekeingese) has never bitten anyone, but a friend of mine had a quite large chunk of flesh and muscle bitten out of her leg by another peke. More recently, a huge St.brenard, which all the surrounding neighbours were terrified of, pounced on me...I was more in danger of drowning in it's slobbers than being bitten. The owner was horrified when she seen both me and the dog lying on the ground and the dog on his back,getting his chest rubbed.

Back to the OP's point: You can't do anything about Mr. Rsole or how he trains his dogs, what you can do is lightly secure your place so the threat never gets onto your property. Not a denuncia,which would involve police, but a letter from a lawyer, stating that,if any harm came to you or your family, legal action would follow.

A quiet, resonable, request to keep his dogs under control, before the Guardia Civil has to be brought in and before the situation escalates.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

The law requires all dogs to be on a lead in public and for dogs over 25 kilos to be muzzled, whether so-called 'dangerous' or not.


We should really be talking about dangerous owners in most cases, not dangerous dogs. They are the ones who need special training.

I'm sick of Our Little Azor being attacked and bitten by dogs half his size. He has scars all over his body from unprovoked attacks and once caught an infection from a bite which required medical treatment. The owners of these dogs -all off the lead - seem quite unconcerned, often talking to friends or on their mobiles, oblivious of what their dog is up to.

Of course if Azor retaliated he would be the villain of the piece. He's big, he must be aggressive

I'm also concerned about the lack of a supervising body for dog trainers. I don't know about GC's qualifications as a trainer but I have come across many 'trainers' who themselves have had no training in canine psychology but who set themselves up in business ....it's interesting to note how many different 'methods' are advocated...a bit like holistic medicine (No, don't let's go there again..)

There are a lot of 'trainers' advertising around here and frankly I'd be dubious about spending money on one. The longer I work at our perrera the more I'm convinced it's humans and not the other animal which needs training before they adopt or acquire a dog.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> The law requires all dogs to be on a lead in public and for dogs over 25 kilos to be muzzled, whether so-called 'dangerous' or not.


Can you give me a pointer to where I can read that Mary?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jimenato said:


> Can you give me a pointer to where I can read that Mary?


I think it was on the general info about Laws relating to dogs in Andalucia...

It's interesting to see how the attitudes of the local police vary when dealing with large and potentially dangerous dogs. We've been out with OLA in Estepona and a couple of times the local police dog unit was out on the paseochecking for microchips. We've got to know them - obviously they know ADANA and the work we do.

We use a Canny-collar for Azor and tighten the strap around his jaws so it acts as a muzzle - you have total control with these wonderful collars without harming your dog in any way. Most people with large dogs had no muzzle of any description for their pets....yet the police were totally unconcerned.

It's the same in our village. Azor is well-known to the local police and much admired by them. It seems to be accepted here that as long as a dog is on a lead and obviously under control a muzzle, although required by law, isn't seen as a cause for police intervention.


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## virgil (May 3, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> I'm sick of Our Little Azor being attacked and bitten by dogs half his size. He has scars all over his body from unprovoked attacks and once caught an infection from a bite which required medical treatment. The owners of these dogs -all off the lead - seem quite unconcerned, often talking to friends or on their mobiles, oblivious of what their dog is up to.
> 
> Of course if Azor retaliated he would be the villain of the piece. He's big, he must be aggressive
> 
> ...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

virgil said:


> [
> 
> :
> 
> ...


Maybe they're jealous as RRs are so handsome and intelligent...

No, seriously, I've wondered that. A few weeks back Azor was leapt on in the campo by a larger but less agile dog. Azor flipped the aggressor onto its back and stood over it...he could have ripped its throat out but when we called him off he obediently trotted over, sniffing contemptuously at the dog's apologetic owner.

We have never used harsh or brutal methods when training Azor or controlling him now at the age of five. This sounds daft but OLA responds to 'explanation'....As a pup we were firm, consistent, insistent but calm and gentle: no raised voices, slaps, sprays, shock treatment and so on.

We were quite appalled at the prevailing ethos of dog training in the Czech Republic. Most dogs seem to be very obedient, like automatons in fact, but the methods employed are very harsh and physical.....shouting, slaps, shock treatments and so on. We decided to train Azor ourselves using common sense and experience as we'd had GSDs before in the UK.

The only problem we had was socialisation as most dogs larger than retrievers were rarely seen out - most larger breeds were kept chained as 'guard dogs' - and stupid people panicked and either hastened in the opposite direction or picked uptheir dogs when they saw Azor. But as soon as we came to Spain and met more sensible people Azor adapted very quickly.

Like your Milo, Azor is quite aloof and isn't really interested in other dogs. He'll give a friendly wag of the tail and a sniff then he's off on his own sniffing and snuffling.

Don't you think a lot of tosh is written and spoken about dog behaviour and training?


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## virgil (May 3, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Maybe they're jealous as RRs are so handsome and intelligent...
> 
> No, seriously, I've wondered that. A few weeks back Azor was leapt on in the campo by a larger but less agile dog. Azor flipped the aggressor onto its back and stood over it...he could have ripped its throat out but when we called him off he obediently trotted over, sniffing contemptuously at the dog's apologetic owner.
> 
> ...


Milo never went to puppy training classes or anything like that, he wasn't really socialized either due to to the fact we lived up at Warleggan on the Bodmin Moor at the time.

They have a high degree of intelligence (like most dogs) and so they know right from wrong (unless there's food involved!)

I can walk with him off the lead most times and I'll use finger/thumb clicks to control him when need be, in fact I do that all the time indoors or out, to sit on his pet bed, to come to his food (as if he needs telling!) to come to my side etc. and it works well.

He has even been attacked by a Cocker Spaniel (for gawds sake!) and of course the owner said "but he's not usually like that with other dogs" 

I'm always on the look out for other dogs when I'm out n' about though. 
'Experience is the best school - because the Vet fees are very high'.


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## FletchinFrance (Aug 25, 2012)

Fletch inFrance,

A short story about our dog. We got "Zak"' at eight weeks from the lady and gent that provide pedigree hounds for our local chasse(hunt). His dad was the chasse labrador and his mum. Was the farm collie, both the parents were well bred. From the start, you could see that he was intelligent and very quickly picked up on all the normal commands. I was brought up with dogs and trained dogs in the past..From the basic commands we moved onto more advanced stuff such as recovering items from lakes and the river on which we live, and remaining in the "stay" position for up to half a kilometre distance. All this was achieved by patience and daily training sessions in the form of play and reward. The dog has never been beaten or in any way physically abused. I had an offer to buy him back from the local hunt for two hundred euros for his water recovery skills. I informed the head huntsman that he could buy my wife( Madame Crocodile) for one hundred and fifty, she cannot swim but would keep his house clean. Anyway, he was also informed, that if he thought that I would sell my chum, he could take a jump.

Anyway, when Zak was two years old the local archery club hosted the regional competion for our area of France, about a hundred archers turned up in the village and proceed to shoot at big plastic deer, boars and coypus. At the bottom of our garden is a large river with a gravel bank, which is exposed. The archery club asked if they could put a target on the bank, we readily agreed. When we got up in the morning a large six foot crocodile had appeared.

I could see the archers coming to the edge of the river in teams of three and firing their arrows into the 'croc'. I walked down the garden with the dog to watch the fun. We had not been watching when a guy fired one of his arrows at the target, he missed completely, the arrow hit the gravel and was deflected out into the river. With that he stripped off to his chuddies, waded out into the river and retrieved his arrow. I could not understand why he went to such trouble for an arrow, which you would presume was of little value, but when you saw it , the arrow was a competion carbon fibre arrow, very expensive.

We watched a few more archers fire away when exactly the same thing happened. The guy startedstripping off to get into the river when .i had a dog that may be able to assist him by not getting wet or drowned. You have to remember that these arrows, being carbon hang vertically in the water with only about an inch of flight shewing above the water level.

I sent the dog in and back he came with the arrow which he dropped at my feet. The archers gave a great cheer and congratulated 'Zac'. As we both enjoyed that and it was an excellent opportunity for further training we stayed for the rest of the day. The archers broke at lunchtime for the usual banquet and continued their competition in the afternoon. At the end of the day Bonzo has recovered 24 arrows, all in tact and all at the first attempt.

About 5pm the same afternoon there was a knock on the front door and there stood the president and V.Pres. Of the archery club, very impressive, they were in full regalia, with velvet robes and hats. They came indoors and explained that during the luncheon the committee and members had voted "Zak" into the archery club as an honorary member, they then produced a large medal on a silk ribbon, with which they officially invested him.

Every year in June they have their annual competition, the chief archer knocks on the door and asks if the dog is available. At the end of the day he gets a large piece of beef and a big cheer from the members.

So there you are, training dogs, and dealing with them does not need violence in anyway. Treat them like small cildren who are trying their hardest to understand what you are telling them.

Sorry to put this on this thread, but there is obviously a lot of dog lovers responding to a sad tale and I just thought that an amusing story would be acceptable.

Good night. Fletch inFrance.


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