# Want to move to England from USA



## patrob4200 (Jan 28, 2013)

Hello, I am writing this in the hope that someone can tell me if it is even possible for me to move to the UK to live with my wife and child.

I am from the US and traveled to England many times. On a trip I met the woman who is now my wife. We married in England at a local registry office in Nov 2011. Before we married I thought we would have to put in an application to marry. We were told at the registry office that the marriage laws had recently changed and an application was no longer required. 

Now I know nothing about moving to other countries. We asked the woman at the registry office if she knew what the next step would be in order for me to be able to stay. I did not want to go back to America. She acted confident when she told me I just needed to go to the US Embassy. Obviously that info was incorrect. Embassy knew nothing and would not even let me in. I have sent multiple emails to the home office to no avail, and it looks like you need a Doctorate in law to understand the applications on the website.

So, we now have a 11 month old son, born in the UK, my name as the father on BC. We also have our Marriage Cert. But here is the catch... She has 2 other children from another person, but was never married to him. She recieves Benefits for those children. I know that will complicate matters.

I have a semi-wealthy family willing to help. My father is also retired from the U.S. Secret Service. Not sure if that will work in my favor or not. 

So I guess the core questions are: Does the financial responsibility fall entirely on the UK citizen(my wife)? Do I have anything working in my favor as we are married and have a child? Will the fact that she is on Benefits smash any hopes I have of living with my wife and son? If I could come and work, she wouldnt need benefits. 

Please if anyone could help me out with some correct info I would be very greatful. And I will go ahead and lay it all out on the table, I couldnt bear to leave my kid and wife and have now overstayed my 6 month tourist visa. I dont know what to do. I am scared if I now go back to America they will catch my expired visa when I leave and never let me back. My wife cant come to America as she has other children and an elderly mother.. Very complicated situation. Please Help...

I recieve a monthly allowance from my parents as they know about my situation and are well off. Could they tell whoever the proper people are that they would be covering the financial aspect of it? Would it have to be in cash funds, or do assests work as well?(Property, Stocks, Bonds)? They live in a Million dollar house and own rental properties as well. My dad also has probably well over a million in the stock market also. Bonds, CDS, IRAs. He is retired from the US Secret Service but now works in Real Estate making about 300k US dollars a year... Would any of that help me????

Thank you for taking the time to read this...


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## LaraMascara (Oct 19, 2012)

You will need to apply for a spouse visa. 
You need to do it from outside the UK - from the USA. 
Only your spouses income (the income of the UK citizen) counts for the application. 
The income required is 18,600 per year. 
If she cannot meet the income requirement, savings can be used. If she is not working at all, she will need a savings of over 60k (not sure of exact amount) in a bank account, untouched, for 6 months, before you apply.

Not sure about benefits. 

Having a child born in the UK is not going to effect the outcome, either positive or negative, of the visa. 

Having family who served the government is not going to effect the outcome of the visa. 

'Meeting the requirements' is the only thing that can secure you a spouse visa.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

patrob4200 said:


> Hello, I am writing this in the hope that someone can tell me if it is even possible for me to move to the UK to live with my wife and child.
> 
> I am from the US and traveled to England many times. On a trip I met the woman who is now my wife. We married in England at a local registry office in Nov 2011. Before we married I thought we would have to put in an application to marry. We were told at the registry office that the marriage laws had recently changed and an application was no longer required.
> 
> ...


Okay, first things first. You need to leave the UK - the longer you overstay your visa, the more you jeopardise any application you make to return or settle in the UK. How long have your overstayed? UKBA can often overlook an overstay of up to 28 days. Anything past that you will need a good reason and will need to explain this when making any new application. The longer you leave it, the worse it will be. And simply "Having a family" in the UK does not count as a valid reason to UKBA, I'm afraid.

It is always better to leave on your own accord then be found out and forcibly removed. I understand that it is difficult to leave your family, but if they find you out and remove you, you could face an exclusion ban of up to 10 years and be unable to return to the UK for any reason. 

Did you marry on a tourist visa? If so, you didn't follow proper procedures and this will cause more problems when you try to apply for settlement. 

Basically, what you need to do is return home and apply for a spousal visa. In this case the financial requirement does fall entirely on the UK Citizen (in this case, your wife). As of today the requirement is £18,600. Does she earn this amount of money?

Unfortunately, most types of benefits do not factor in when qualifying for the financial requirement. Also there is no wiggle room on that £18,600 figure, I'm afraid. If your wife does not earn that type of money, you can expect your application to fail unless you can bump it up with savings.

Under the new rules which went into effect 9 July 2012, third party sponsorship no longer applies. So unless your family is willing to gift (ie. not loan) money to you, it is irrelevant.

If your wife does not earn the £18,600 minimum, you will need to bump it up with savings. The way that works is you need a base savings of £16,000, then you will need 2.5 times the shortfall amount. So if you were £500 short of the £18,600 annual minimum, you would need £17,250 held in a readily accessible account (read: not in bonds, shares, investments, etc), for 6 months or more. 

It is not an easy road, and the longer your overstay, the more you risk having all future visa applications declined on that basis alone. Consider getting your affairs in order and returning to the US as soon as you can, and applying from there. You don't want to risk a 10 year ban from the UK.


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## patrob4200 (Jan 28, 2013)

Thank you Leanna.. I was afraid of that. Would you happen to know that if I do leave the UK and return to Florida, when I swipe my passport to get my boarding passes are alarms and whistles gonna go off. Or is it possible that I can slip out unnoticed. When I came this time, I had a 1 way ticket and flew through Ireland. I did not get an England stamp on my passport this time. I am sure you can understand that I am hesitant to leave as I am fearful of being found out at the airport. I dont know what will happen when I swipe my passport.. My wife and I live a quiet life in a very rural area and could continue this way, but not being legitimate is driving us both crazy. God forbid I do get found out. I cant have that hanging over our heads. All it could take is a brake light out, traffic accident, anything really. If they do look into me, I am done for.. And I have been here 2 years this month..

And yes we did marry while I was on a tourist visa. I specifically asked the woman at the registry office about this. She told me that laws had recently changed and it did not matter. She said, and I think I can quote her, you no longer need permission to marry. You can marry anyone you want from wherever you want. I even used my passport as a form of ID. Filled out all the paperwork came back about 2 weeks later and had a small service. In fact, my 6 month visa was expired at the time.

Thank you for the help Leanna. Plz tell me if I am correct. I need to go back to Florida, transfer roughly 35,000 pounds(50,000USD) into an acct in my wifes name as she will be the sponser. Apply for a spousal visa and see what happens???

And I got to be honest.. It is appaling that any civilized government would tell someone they were not allowed to live with there wife and child due to the citizens financial state. I am not quite sure, but I dont think it would be like that in America. If the roles were reversed and I was british and she American and I went to america and she had my kid, correct me if I am wrong, but thats it.. I am in.. Why so many people go to the US to give birth..

Anyways thanks again. Very helpful. But my gosh, what a pain.... Sounds to me if you want to move to England, you got to be loaded... Once her 2 other kids leave home, back to Florida.. Right on the beach too. 

England is part of the EU right?? Is there another country we could go to as a married couple where I could get EU privilages?? Is that even possible.. And also when I spoke to an immigration lawyer, they told me that if my wife had any other nationality in her I would be good to go and would have no problem staying.. Do you know anything about that???

And also, would getting my 11 month old son dual citizenship have any impact on anything??? Would I be able to get my wife dual citizenship or the equal if we do not live in the US???


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## LaraMascara (Oct 19, 2012)

America ALSO has an income requirement for USA citizens wanting to sponsor a spouse. (Although they also allow 3rd party support, and the amount required in much lower.)

I think the savings she would need to show would have to be £64,000, for six months, which is just over $100,000, if she is not employed at all. 

Have you considered the EEA route? Living in another country for a while, and then coming into the UK... It is a whole different set of rules. Much easier!!!

Read up on this and see if it might not be an option for you - 

Requirements for a visa (for family members of EU citizen) « freedom of movement in the EU

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/citizenship/docs/guide_free_movement_low.pdf


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## LaraMascara (Oct 19, 2012)

Oh, and you cannot get your wife dual citizenship for the USA without living there with her. 

Your son already has it, by birth. Through you.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

patrob4200 said:


> Thank you Leanna.. I was afraid of that. Would you happen to know that if I do leave the UK and return to Florida, when I swipe my passport to get my boarding passes are alarms and whistles gonna go off. Or is it possible that I can slip out unnoticed. When I came this time, I had a 1 way ticket and flew through Ireland. I did not get an England stamp on my passport this time. I am sure you can understand that I am hesitant to leave as I am fearful of being found out at the airport. I dont know what will happen when I swipe my passport.. My wife and I live a quiet life in a very rural area and could continue this way, but not being legitimate is driving us both crazy. God forbid I do get found out. I cant have that hanging over our heads. All it could take is a brake light out, traffic accident, anything really. If they do look into me, I am done for.. And I have been here 2 years this month..


Chances are if you just packed up and left the country, you would do so without incident. UKBA doesn't often flag people on their way out of the UK, rather they would for people coming in. You probably wouldn't have any problem leaving. 

Yes of course I understand your stress in getting caught at the airport. However, even if they did pull you aside for questioning, you're already leaving. There's not much else they would do besides make you leave, so you'd be okay. 

Yes I imagine it is a stressful life being fearful of being caught out. I'll be honest, an overstay of nearly 1.5 years (past the end of your tourist visa), will not be an easy thing to get over. There is a chance that this amount of overstay will inhibit you from ever getting a settlement visa to the UK. 

However, if you decide not to leave and continue to overstay your visa, you will get found out eventually and you will be removed from the UK. This carries a very high probability that you will get a 10 year ban to the UK, which will prohibit you from returning at all to see your wife & child. It is best to take the chance and leave on your own accord, which is more favorable according to the UKBA. 

Are you working at the moment?



> And yes we did marry while I was on a tourist visa. I specifically asked the woman at the registry office about this. She told me that laws had recently changed and it did not matter. She said, and I think I can quote her, you no longer need permission to marry. You can marry anyone you want from wherever you want. I even used my passport as a form of ID. Filled out all the paperwork came back about 2 weeks later and had a small service. In fact, my 6 month visa was expired at the time.


Chances are the register did not check your visa, only your passport details. Either way, they were incorrect. You cannot marry on a tourist visa, unfortunately, so the fact that you did may present some additional issues when applying for a settlement visa. 



> Thank you for the help Leanna. Plz tell me if I am correct. I need to go back to Florida, transfer roughly 35,000 pounds(50,000USD) into an acct in my wifes name as she will be the sponser. Apply for a spousal visa and see what happens???


How much does your wife earn annually? 

Be aware that any savings you are relying on for a spousal visa application will have to be in your or your wife's account for a minimum of 6 months before making an application. So you are looking at having to be in the US for a period of about 6 months before making your application to return. 

The amount you will need in savings is directly correlated to the amount that your wife earns annually. 



> And I got to be honest.. It is appaling that any civilized government would tell someone they were not allowed to live with there wife and child due to the citizens financial state. I am not quite sure, but I dont think it would be like that in America. If the roles were reversed and I was british and she American and I went to america and she had my kid, correct me if I am wrong, but thats it.. I am in.. Why so many people go to the US to give birth..


I understand your frustration. We are seeing a lot of partner's unable to meet the financial requirements since the new rules came into effect in June. However, the UKBA is making a large effort to reduce migration from the hundreds of thousands to the tens of thousands before the next election, and so far the scheme is working, it is unlikely that the rules will lighten over the next few years. If anything, we can expect the rules to tighten. 



> Anyways thanks again. Very helpful. But my gosh, what a pain.... Sounds to me if you want to move to England, you got to be loaded... Once her 2 other kids leave home, back to Florida.. Right on the beach too.


How old are her children? Is moving to the US feasible for you two?



> England is part of the EU right?? Is there another country we could go to as a married couple where I could get EU privilages?? Is that even possible.. And also when I spoke to an immigration lawyer, they told me that if my wife had any other nationality in her I would be good to go and would have no problem staying.. Do you know anything about that???


I'm not overly familiar with the EEA Route, though I do know that it doesn't come with the financial requirement that the spousal visa does. However, I believe that you have to be exersizing your EA Treaty Rights, which I am not sure you are doing by being in the UK. Have a read on the link that LaraMascara linked to, and wait for other advice from members more knowledgeable in this subject. 



> And also, would getting my 11 month old son dual citizenship have any impact on anything??? Would I be able to get my wife dual citizenship or the equal if we do not live in the US???


Again, I'm afraid I'm not overly knowledgeable in US Citizenship. Might want to check the US Forum on this site and see if someone there has some answers. 

Good luck.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

First things first, what visa are you on currently and have you overstayed? If you have overstayed a visa, there is an automatic 10-year ban which will likely be applied - and in order to apply for settlement as your wife's spouse, you WOULD need to leave the UK first.

Forgetting the potential of a ban, if your wife's benefits include child maintenance payments from a former partner, these CAN be counted, but she would still need to make £18,600 or more per year (£1,550 per month) even with these payments included. As said in other posts, other benefits and tax credits cannot be counted in this sum. It sounds like a lot - and for women especially, it IS because women more frequently tend to fall into lower-paid employment, but as far as living in Britain is concerned, it is by no means a high income for a household, and with children to rear it could be a struggle. Money has a different value in the UK. As an example, my partner left a large modern home with 4 bedrooms, pool, sprawling gardens and proximity to the beach in sunny Florida for a tiny and humble home nothing like her last, but cost exactly the same price as hers.

If opting to use savings, the amount you would need to provide is actually £62,500, and you must hold these in an immediate-access bank account (can be in your name, your wife's - or both) for 6 months minimum. The savings figure is so high because it is the equivalent of £18,600 spread over the 2.5 year period of the visa, together with an initial £16,000 which is regarded as the minimum level of savings held in order for the saver not to need any public funding assistance.

For the EEA route (entering another EU country with an end goal of moving to Britain) your wife would first need to move to another EEA country and take up work as a convincing permanent move (not transient) and you would need to join her. After a few months, your wife would be able to exercise her treaty rights (Surinder Singh ruling) whereby she can opt to return to the UK and bring her non-EU partner back to the UK with her when she returns. It's a difficult route though as most EU countries would require their native language spoken, and most EU countries have a similar (or worse) unemployment situation to the UK's.


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## LaraMascara (Oct 19, 2012)

Read this too - 

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=COM:2009:0313:FIN:EN:PDF


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

EDIT: just read your later post (I'm a slow typer) and see you've overstayed by a couple of years. I don't know what best to advise. You would be able to leave without incident, but whether or not your passport would be marked I don't know. However, UKBA would see your travel history as soon as you applied and there is a danger you could face a ban. It's not something I've yet seen tested against the rules. I've seen people who have previously been refused entry at the border being successful with a later visa application, but in those cases there was no overstay involved. Would UKBA actually notice your overstay if it is not flagged up and you apply for spouse visa? I don't know, but I imagine there's a very good chance.

However, the only way to live legally with your wife, and be able to work and drive legally with UK license and insurance - is to apply legally from the US. At the moment (with a potential ban and the difficult financial requirement), you might be faced with no choice other than for your wife to join you in the US. I wish I had better ideas for you. It's galling that, if you'd gone home when you should have done, you could have applied back then as spouse under the old and more lenient rules, and would have had a good chance (before the £18,600 came into effect). Alas, the strict new rules are likely here to stay and there's nothing 'helpful' I can really add because of this. I'm really sorry.


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## patrob4200 (Jan 28, 2013)

LaraMascara.. Thks for the link.. It looks so easy.. But why would we have to live in another country for a while? It looks to me that instead of an actual british immigration status, this would be a family member of an EU citizen. Could we just travel to another EU country and then apply? It says these visas are issued free of charge as soon as possible. And it says people who fall under the definition of spouse have the simple life. All they have to do is plonk down there marriage cert and must be issued the visa. Will this allow me to stay and work in the UK??? And how do I go about actually applying for it...

Thks again.. Looks too good to be true..


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## LaraMascara (Oct 19, 2012)

I have a friend who was denied a spouse visa, just last year, for an overstay. She overstayed for 11 days. (It was because she got really sick, but she had no proof. She did not go to the doctor or anything. She had the flu.She changed her flight to the next available flight after she was better.) 
No one said 2 words to her when she flew out of England, and she did not mention it on her spouse visa application, because they ask if you have been banned for an overstay, not if you have overstayed. 
They also ask for your travels in and out of every country for something like the last ten years, and they have your passport, so they can see all of the stamps. 
And they clocked it. 
They saw her entry and exit stamps and they denied her the spouse visa. She has a ten year ban on entering the UK. 
She got her husband a USA visa and they live there now.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

LaraMascara said:


> I have a friend who was denied a spouse visa, just last year, for an overstay. She overstayed for 11 days. (It was because she got really sick, but she had no proof. She did not go to the doctor or anything. She had the flu.She changed her flight to the next available flight after she was better.)
> No one said 2 words to her when she flew out of England, and she did not mention it on her spouse visa application, because they ask if you have been banned for an overstay, not if you have overstayed.
> They also ask for your travels in and out of every country for something like the last ten years, and they have your passport, so they can see all of the stamps.
> And they clocked it.
> ...


That's just as I feared.


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## LaraMascara (Oct 19, 2012)

The thing is, it is easier... but to return to the UK you have to have been living and working in another EU country.
So, you cannot just fly over to Spain, fill out a form, and be an EEA spouse. Well, I mean, you can do that, but it will not qualify you to return to the UK as an EEA spouse... 

For that, you need to have been living and working and have established residency there.

Make sense?


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

patrob4200 said:


> LaraMascara.. Thks for the link.. It looks so easy.. But why would we have to live in another country for a while? It looks to me that instead of an actual british immigration status, this would be a family member of an EU citizen. Could we just travel to another EU country and then apply? It says these visas are issued free of charge as soon as possible. And it says people who fall under the definition of spouse have the simple life. All they have to do is plonk down there marriage cert and must be issued the visa. Will this allow me to stay and work in the UK??? And how do I go about actually applying for it...
> 
> Thks again.. Looks too good to be true..


As I said in my earlier post, *your wife would have to move to that country and take work there for a few months*. You would need to join her. After a few months you could apply for an EEA Family Permit with your wife exercising her Treaty rights, but with a strong possibility of a ban on returning to the UK, you would possibly be refused this route too.


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## LaraMascara (Oct 19, 2012)

The UK is seemingly very serious about overstays. 

It may even cause a problem when you do the EEA route. But, I have no idea.


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## patrob4200 (Jan 28, 2013)

Leanna. Her 2 other children are 13 and 15. Moving to the US is not feasable at the moment due to this and she also has an elderly mother. We have an 11 month old son, she is a stay at home mom who does Avon and earns nowhere near the required income. I do not work in the UK as this is illegal. lol.. Other than my visa status, I try to abide by the laws. I recieve a moderate amount of financial support from my parents in the US. Reading all these replies, it is starting to look like the easiest route would be to ride it out until her kids leave home then move back to Florida with her and our son... I love the history and beauty of this country, but I am starting to hate the fact that it is soo hard to legally come live with my family my parents would help on the financial end, but I dont know if I could really ask them to do that..


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## patrob4200 (Jan 28, 2013)

LaraMascara said:


> I have a friend who was denied a spouse visa, just last year, for an overstay. She overstayed for 11 days. (It was because she got really sick, but she had no proof. She did not go to the doctor or anything. She had the flu.She changed her flight to the next available flight after she was better.)
> No one said 2 words to her when she flew out of England, and she did not mention it on her spouse visa application, because they ask if you have been banned for an overstay, not if you have overstayed.
> They also ask for your travels in and out of every country for something like the last ten years, and they have your passport, so they can see all of the stamps.
> And they clocked it.
> ...


I have only been to the UK. I originally came to see London, but met my wife in the process. And also, I have never been given an exit stamp. Just a stamp when I come in. My current stamp is from Ireland.


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## LaraMascara (Oct 19, 2012)

I have sent you a private message with my lawyers info - she is good, but expensive. I think you need a lawyer to answer some questions for you. She is not an EEA route lawyer, she is a USA to UK immigration lawyer.


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## LaraMascara (Oct 19, 2012)

Whenever you leave, wherever you leave from, you will get an exit stamp. That exit stamp is going to make it clear that you stayed here. Also, they have it in record, so even if you applied with a new passport, they would clock it. 

And, if you lie at all on the visa application, you get an automatic ten year ban from entering the UK. 

So, forget about possibly lying. About anything.


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## LaraMascara (Oct 19, 2012)

The overstay would make it hard for you to get any other visa too, like a student visa, or an investment visa, so I think your best bet is a lawyer - check the private message box. 

I really don't suggest that you stay illegally for several more years, as tempting as it may seem. 

Even visiting the UK, after you leave, will most likely become impossible, if you do that.


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## patrob4200 (Jan 28, 2013)

LaraMascara said:


> The overstay would make it hard for you to get any other visa too, like a student visa, or an investment visa, so I think your best bet is a lawyer - check the private message box.
> 
> I really don't suggest that you stay illegally for several more years, as tempting as it may seem.
> 
> Even visiting the UK, after you leave, will most likely become impossible, if you do that.


Thank you for the advice... Really just seems like a hopeless situation unless I dump a motherload of cash into it. But I am curious about this exit stamp. I just pulled out my passport and looked. The only stamps I have are from when I entered. I have the same number of stamps as visits I have made. They all have the dates on em also.. No exit stamps..Just entry..


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

patrob4200 said:


> Thank you for the advice... Really just seems like a hopeless situation unless I dump a motherload of cash into it. But I am curious about this exit stamp. I just pulled out my passport and looked. The only stamps I have are from when I entered. I have the same number of stamps as visits I have made. They all have the dates on em also.. No exit stamps..Just entry..


Stamp or no stamp, they will still have a record of when you left the UK, there is no way around that I'm afraid


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## LaraMascara (Oct 19, 2012)

If you go up to an immigration officer, which is unavoidable when you leave the country, and you have overstayed, they will notice it. 

And you will get a stamp. 

A very special stamp. 

At least, that was what happened to my friend who got the flu...


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## LaraMascara (Oct 19, 2012)

Hmmm... You entered through Ireland, so what if you exited through there... 

Interestingly, it states on the definition of 'straightforward applications' something along the lines of 'overstayed in ANY country' not just the UK, I think. That makes you unable to apply for priority service. So, that means you are flagged. I remember seeing it. Lemmie look for it... 

OK, it says:

Never having overstayed a visa in the UK, never having applied for a visa in the past, in the UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, United States of America, or the Schengen countries, and been denied, never having been convicted of a crime in any country, (and presumably, never having been a part of a terrorist organisation, although that is not specifically stated). 

So, although not stated, I think if you have overstayed a visa in any of the Schengen countries, you are still flagged in the UK. So, even if you entered and exited Ireland it would not help the situation... 

It was worth a look, but it is a dead end.


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## patrob4200 (Jan 28, 2013)

Thank you all for the advice.. No matter how depressing it is. Highly appreciated..


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## LaraMascara (Oct 19, 2012)

Read this - you will face an automatic refusal even if you apply from the USA - 

Visa overstayers will be refused under new UK Immigration Rules | Immigration Matters


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

patrob4200 said:


> Thank you all for the advice.. No matter how depressing it is. Highly appreciated..


I'm sorry it wasn't better news for you. Good luck.


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## LaraMascara (Oct 19, 2012)

If you leave on your own, it will not be a ten year automatic ban - 

UK Border Agency | RFL05 - Immigration offender - paragraph 320(7B) and A320


If an applicant falls to be refused under 320(7B), applications must be refused for the following periods:

12 months if they left the UK voluntarily, not at the expense (directly or indirectly) of the Secretary of State;
2 years if they left the UK voluntarily, at the expense (directly or indirectly) of the Secretary of State, more than 2 years ago; and the date the person left the UK was no more than 6 months after the date on which the person was given notice of the removal decision, or no more than 6 months after the date on which the person no longer had a pending appeal; whichever is the later
5 years if they left UK voluntarily, at public expense;
5 years if they were removed from the UK as a condition of a caution issued in accordance with s.134 Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012
10 years if they were removed or deported from the UK;
10 years if they practised deception (which includes using false documentation) in support of a previous visa application.
Where an applicant has overstayed, breached a condition of leave, was an illegal entrant or used deception in a leave to remain application, the automatic refusal period is dated from the date the applicant left the UK. Where an applicant has used deception in a visa application, the automatic refusal period is dated from the date (in which deception was used) was refused.

Where more than one breach of the UK's immigration laws has occurred, only the breach which leads to the longest automatic refusal period from the UK will be taken into account.

For example, an applicant left the UK voluntarily at her own expense in January 2008 and applied for entry clearance using false documents in February 2008. Any subsequent entry clearance application must be automatically refused for 10 years, until February 2018. This is the longer refusal period where deception has been used in an entry clearance application. The shorter refusal period of 2 years for leaving the UK voluntarily is not applicable.


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## patrob4200 (Jan 28, 2013)

LaraMascara said:


> Hmmm... You entered through Ireland, so what if you exited through there...
> 
> Interestingly, it states on the definition of 'straightforward applications' something along the lines of 'overstayed in ANY country' not just the UK, I think. That makes you unable to apply for priority service. So, that means you are flagged. I remember seeing it. Lemmie look for it...
> 
> ...


O well. I think I get the jest of it.. Im screwed. I am going to call my dad tonight and see if he cant speak to a lawyer in the states and see what the smartest plan of attack will be.. He offered once before but I declined.. Thank you Lara for taking the time to offer your advice. Very helpful..


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

LaraMascara said:


> If you leave on your own, it will not be a ten year automatic ban -
> 
> UK Border Agency | RFL05 - Immigration offender - paragraph 320(7B) and A320
> 
> ...


Thanks for digging this up. Very useful to know for future.


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## patrob4200 (Jan 28, 2013)

LaraMascara said:


> If you leave on your own, it will not be a ten year automatic ban -
> 
> UK Border Agency | RFL05 - Immigration offender - paragraph 320(7B) and A320
> 
> ...


So if I leave on my own, get caught, 12 months.. Much better than 10 years..


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## LaraMascara (Oct 19, 2012)

Yes. 

You do not want a deportation on your record. 

The only thing worse than an overstay is... a deportation.


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## patrob4200 (Jan 28, 2013)

Leanna said:


> I'm sorry it wasn't better news for you. Good luck.


Thank you for taking the time to help.


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## astonia 7 (Jan 11, 2013)

My husband just withdrew his application for a visa as we applied here in the UK and we were told by members on here and spoke with a lawyer that it would never be approved and it was better to be withdrawn than be refused, of course we lost £700 but oh well just an expensive lesson learned. We are waiting for his paperwork to be returned then we are going to Spain, where he can come as the spouse of an EU citizen. We are retired so it's a little different than your situation. Even though we have been told by a lawyer this is okay we are armed with proof of income and savings documents, marriage certificate etc. We had our paperwork in for over 6 months and still had no answer so we were getting fed up anyway. We have been married for 32 years, and have a generous pension and savings but that doesn't make any difference to UKBA. I was upset at first but it was our fault for not getting a college degreee on how to apply for UK visa, and we had filled out the paperwork in July and didn't submit it until August when they changed the rules, oh well things happen in life for a reason so now Spain will get our money and we get sunshine


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

astonia 7 said:


> My husband just withdrew his application for a visa as we applied here in the UK and we were told by members on here and spoke with a lawyer that it would never be approved and it was better to be withdrawn than be refused, of course we lost £700 but oh well just an expensive lesson learned. We are waiting for his paperwork to be returned then we are going to Spain, where he can come as the spouse of an EU citizen. We are retired so it's a little different than your situation. Even though we have been told by a lawyer this is okay we are armed with proof of income and savings documents, marriage certificate etc. We had our paperwork in for over 6 months and still had no answer so we were getting fed up anyway. We have been married for 32 years, and have a generous pension and savings but that doesn't make any difference to UKBA. I was upset at first but it was our fault for not getting a college degreee on how to apply for UK visa, and we had filled out the paperwork in July and didn't submit it until August when they changed the rules, oh well things happen in life for a reason so now Spain will get our money and we get sunshine


Just to be clear, your husband would have been refused because he applied for a visa that he wasn't eligible to apply for as well as the fact he applied whilst in the UK on a visitor visa. The July rule change had nothing to do with your situation.


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## astonia 7 (Jan 11, 2013)

nyclon said:


> Just to be clear, your husband would have been refused because he applied for a visa that he wasn't eligible to apply for as well as the fact he applied whilst in the UK on a visitor visa. The July rule change had nothing to do with your situation.


Oh okay thanks, I do have one question for you Nyclon, we are waiting for our paperwork to come back which they said allow 20 days for, my husbands passport expires shortly after that, we have the form filled out and photo's ready to send to the American Embassy in London the day the passport comes back, which they said could take up to a month to get back, do you know how strict they are if he had to stay up to a week longer than the 28 days, will be fined when leaving. Not worried about not being allowed back as we wouldn't come back to live anyway, the biggest problem is if we had to come back to visit for family illness my mum is almost 88 and not in the best of health.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

My partner recently renewed her US passport via the US Embassy in London. Using next-day special delivery, it took just over 4 weeks (US Embassy receives and checks your documents, then sends the application over to the US for the passport to be created and issued).

An overstay is not good to have on record but if he's leaving of his own volition, he might only be subjected to a 12-month ban (http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...ovals/chapter62_re-entry-bans.pdf?view=Binary). However, it could also mean he will be interrogated more closely on future visits. Is there any way you can delay your husband's passport renewal until after your move?


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## astonia 7 (Jan 11, 2013)

2farapart said:


> My partner recently renewed her US passport via the US Embassy in London. Using next-day special delivery, it took just over 4 weeks (US Embassy receives and checks your documents, then sends the application over to the US for the passport to be created and issued).
> 
> An overstay is not good to have on record but if he's leaving of his own volition, he might only be subjected to a 12-month ban (http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...ovals/chapter62_re-entry-bans.pdf?view=Binary). However, it could also mean he will be interrogated more closely on future visits. Is there any way you can delay your husband's passport renewal until after your move?


I wish we could but his passport expires April 22nd and we just aren't sure when we will get our papers back, they say 20days but who knows. We just didn't realize it would take this long, and I think you have to have so many months on the passport to get into another country. I think at this point he doesn't care if he comes back or not, we are in our 60's and just want a place in Spain to spend our twilight years


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## astonia 7 (Jan 11, 2013)

Just got an email that they sent our paperwork back on the 2nd but if we don't recieve it to file a return of documents request in 4 weeks. Not sure what that means other than if it gets lost in the mail!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

They usually send by second-class post so wait another day or two. As 2nd was a Saturday, it presumably wasn't actually in the postal system till yesterday but you should get them by the weekend at the latest.


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## astonia 7 (Jan 11, 2013)

Joppa said:


> They usually send by second-class post so wait another day or two. As 2nd was a Saturday, it presumably wasn't actually in the postal system till yesterday but you should get them by the weekend at the latest.


Thanks Joppa, now for the mad dash to get everything in order, thought it would be the 20 days like they said. Oh well it's got to be done. My husband will just have to be an overstayer for a couple of days.


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