# Level of Spanish in Catalonia



## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

This subject came up the other day with a teacher friend. I have read posts on here where it is said that some people don't speak any Spanish only Catalan, which is contrary to anything I've personally experienced. My friend was adamant, as others I've spoken to have said to me, that school test results prove that the Spanish here is as good as anywhere else in Spain. I did a bit of an internet search today about it and came up with this report -

http://www.uoc.edu/portal/ca/catedra_multilinguisme/_resources/documents/Resultats_EN.pdf



> 3. "Do pupils finish their compulsory education with gaps in their knowledge of Spanish because they studied (mainly) in Catalan?"
> .....
> Taken as a whole, then, these data indicate that Catalan children and youths do not know less Spanish because they are taught in Catalan. Moreover, they know as much or more Spanish than the children and young people of Spain as a whole. We can therefore emphatically state that the results support the language immersion model.


I think, as has been said before, there might be some odd instances where some individuals might not, or choose not to, understand or speak Spanish, but the huge majority of people educated here in the last 30 years have as good a level as anybody else educated in Spain.

It makes sense given the amount of tv, radio, newspapers in Spanish. Even the regional and local stations and papers have guests, articles, adverts in Spanish. It is certainly a misconception that anyone here, visitors or people coming here to live, will face a battle being unable to communicate. I hope this helps anyone doubting a possible move here.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

*Catalonia*



Helenameva said:


> This subject came up the other day with a teacher friend. I have read posts on here where it is said that some people don't speak any Spanish only Catalan, which is contrary to anything I've personally experienced. My friend was adamant, as others I've spoken to have said to me, that school test results prove that the Spanish here is as good as anywhere else in Spain. I did a bit of an internet search today about it and came up with this report -
> 
> http://www.uoc.edu/portal/ca/catedra_multilinguisme/_resources/documents/Resultats_EN.pdf
> 
> ...


My limited experience of Barcelona some five years ago showed me that the locals were as happy in Spanish as Catalan. Perhaps in some outlying villages where Catalan has been the favoured language it could be different, but that could be as true for other areas of Spain which has its own language.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Justina said:


> My limited experience of Barcelona some five years ago showed me that the locals were as happy in Spanish as Catalan. Perhaps in some outlying villages where Catalan has been the favoured language it could be different, but that could be as true for other areas of Spain which has its own language.


Yes, like Gernika, Bermeo...


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## Sandy64 (Aug 11, 2015)

There is a huge difference between Barcelona and the rest of Catalonia. Barcelona is geared up to handle thousands of tourists speaking a variety of languages including Spanish from other parts of Spain. Outside Barcelona you rarely hear Spanish spoken in Catalonia. Catalan is the everyday language and communication is in Catalan e.g. all information from the ajuntament (ayuntamiento), utility bills etc. Spanish is taught in schools but is a second language for Catalans.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

Sandy64 said:


> There is a huge difference between Barcelona and the rest of Catalonia. Barcelona is geared up to handle thousands of tourists speaking a variety of languages including Spanish from other parts of Spain. Outside Barcelona you rarely hear Spanish spoken in Catalonia. Catalan is the everyday language and communication is in Catalan e.g. all information from the ajuntament (ayuntamiento), utility bills etc. Spanish is taught in schools but is a second language for Catalans.


Yes, that it is true but not the point of the thread. There is a common misconception that the level of Spanish in Catalonia is poor and that is proven to be wrong. If you come to Catalonia and speak Spanish you will be understood, the level of Spanish here is as good if not better than the rest of Spain. Nobody should be put off coming here, even if Spanish is the second language.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Sandy64 said:


> There is a huge difference between Barcelona and the rest of Catalonia. Barcelona is geared up to handle thousands of tourists speaking a variety of languages including Spanish from other parts of Spain. Outside Barcelona you rarely hear Spanish spoken in Catalonia. Catalan is the everyday language and communication is in Catalan e.g. all information from the ajuntament (ayuntamiento), utility bills etc. Spanish is taught in schools but is a second language for Catalans.


In a similar way, Valenciano is the language of the home in my area, the language of communication within the ayto, on signs in public buildings etc., and among most of the local Spanish people I mix with. My elder daughter speaks Valenciano with her friends as much as Castellano. My younger daughter hates speaking it although she can.

Ayto websites are in both Castellano & Valenciano - & English & other languages are being added. But this is a very International town, population-wise, so it makes sense that, as far as communicating with the population as a whole.


Both Castellano & Valenciano are taught in schools. In at least one primary school & in both secondary schools, Castellano takes a second seat to Valenciano - in practice if not officially.

There are some older people in the town, who I have met, who have genuinely forgotten how to speak Castellano. Notably two fishermen who are twins & who are of such an age that they really should have retired by now.

However - apart from the twins & a few others, everyone I have met _can & will_ speak Castellano - even if they choose not to among themselves. But in a small village up the road, you struggle to persuade anyone to speak to you in Castellano. Even their Valenciano is a sort of local version........


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> In a similar way, Valenciano is the language of the home in my area, the language of communication within the ayto, on signs in public buildings etc., and among most of the local Spanish people I mix with. My elder daughter speaks Valenciano with her friends as much as Castellano. My younger daughter hates speaking it although she can.
> 
> Ayto websites are in both Castellano & Valenciano - & English & other languages are being added. But this is a very International town, population-wise, so it makes sense that, as far as communicating with the population as a whole.
> 
> ...


I think this describes the reality of the situation, except that I have met young people who struggle with Spanish too. It might not be the majority, but they do exist, there's no denying it. That the majority can speak Spanish is also undeniable. What they choose to do, and their life style decisions, will vary though


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## xolo (May 25, 2014)

Helen is correct. I suppose there are monolingual individuals in the regional languages but that is the exception, not the rule. It's also unconstitutional.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I think this describes the reality of the situation, except that I have met young people who struggle with Spanish too. It might not be the majority, but they do exist, there's no denying it. That the majority can speak Spanish is also undeniable. What they choose to do, and the life style decisions, will vary though


Actually I just remembered that I did meet a teenager here who struggled with Spanish. 

M was English & I was tutoring for GCSE Spanish. M had been through the Spanish school system, in the Valenciano line, where most classes are taught in Valenciano. M only mixed with English kids, so rarely used Spanish (or Valenciano, but that was the language of the classroom, so was spoken all day 5 days a week). M's Spanish vocab was woeful, especially for someone who had lived here 8 years  

I dare say there are some Spanish kids in much the same situation, if they only speak Valenciano at home, & mostly speak it with their friends.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> ?..I have met young people who struggle with Spanish too...


They are taught to the same level as the kids in the rest of Spain, the school test results prove it. But some kids are smarter than others. Whether they live in Catalonia or another area isn't relevant. I'm sure there are kids all over barely able to string a sentence together. There certainly are in the England. Any problems are rare and not the norm.


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> Actually I just remembered that I did meet a teenager here who struggled with Spanish.
> 
> M was English & I was tutoring for GCSE Spanish. M had been through the Spanish school system, in the Valenciano line, where most classes are taught in Valenciano. M only mixed with English kids, so rarely used Spanish (or Valenciano, but that was the language of the classroom, so was spoken all day 5 days a week). M's Spanish vocab was woeful, especially for someone who had lived here 8 years
> 
> I dare say there are some Spanish kids in much the same situation, if they only speak Valenciano at home, & mostly speak it with their friends.


But I bet if she had been raised here from birth and gone through the normal state school system it wouldn't be a problem. That's what the report says. Your example isn't very typical. As you know, native kids swap very easily from one language to the other here, and so would a non-native if they were in state school from a young enough age.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Helenameva said:


> They are taught to the same level as the kids in the rest of Spain, the school test results prove it. But some kids are smarter than others. Whether they live in Catalonia or another area isn't relevant. I'm sure there are kids all over barely able to string a sentence together. There certainly are in the England. Any problems are rare and not the norm.


Helenameva,
I do not disagree with you as this quote from my post will tell you


> that I have met young people who struggle with Spanish too. It might not be the majority, but they do exist, there's no denying it. That the majority can speak Spanish is also undeniable.


Both groups exist - those who speak both languages and those who don't.
The majority do speak both.
Some, make a lifestyle choice and don't speak it.
Others are not capable of speaking it.

I don't think anyone's saying anything new here.:noidea:


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Helenameva,
> I do not disagree with you as this quote from my post will tell you
> 
> Both groups exist - those who speak both languages and those who don't.
> ...


Others are not capable because of their own issues, not because the level of Spanish taught in the state schools is any worse than anywhere else in Spain.

I think the new thing being said is the level and quality of Spanish being taught. There seems to be a misconception that it is worse. I know you get it, I just wanted to reinforce it. Apologies if I sounded otherwise. You know you are my favourite poster.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Helenameva said:


> Others are not capable because of their own issues, not because the level of Spanish taught in the state schools is any worse than anywhere else in Spain.
> 
> I think the new thing being said is the level and quality of Spanish being taught. There seems to be a misconception that it is worse. I know you get it, I just wanted to reinforce it. Apologies if I sounded otherwise. You know you are my favourite poster.


Yes, you're right that you are making a valid point about the level of Spanish which is constantly questioned.
And about being the fave poster -hahaha!

Since being a mod I don't seem to have time to come on. Maybe that was the plan! Make her a mod and and see if that keeps her quiet!


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, you're right that you are making a valid point about the level of Spanish which is constantly questioned.
> And about being the fave poster -hahaha!
> 
> Since being a mod I don't seem to have time to come on. Maybe that was the plan! Make her a mod and and see if that keeps her quiet!


Less is more


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