# Alternatives to Mexico



## cowichangang (Aug 11, 2012)

Wow!, it's been almost 2 years since I was on here, and can't believe how things have changed regarding the rules for retiring to Mexico, guess I should have come back sooner. After reading a few threads, looks like we definitely won't qualify based on the now even higher monthly income required, and although we would exceed the required investment amount, its the keeping it in the bank for a year, and its also the "what if" factor we have to consider. What if the person at the Mexican embasy, who is handling our application decides to deny us for no reason other than they have the power to do so. And if they do, is there an appeals process, or would that just piss them off and be giving them a reason to not even allow us to visit Mexico. According to some posts on here, it happens, or is it just an urban legend. If we decide Mexico is no longer for us, can anyone suggest anywhere else that Canadians can easily retire to without a $2000 + pension, somewhere that's like Mexico, sunny year round, not overly expensive, lower housing costs, not in a civil war, friendly people, easy to get to from Vancouver, etc etc. Maybe somewhere in the Caribbean, (but not Dominican Republic). Have considered Panama, Ecuador, but too far away and time consuming for us to return quickly incase of family emergency back in BC, and most family/friends wouldn't visit due to the distance and cost. Thanks All.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


cowichangang said:



Wow!, it's been almost 2 years since I was on here, and can't believe how things have changed regarding the rules for retiring to Mexico, guess I should have come back sooner. After reading a few threads, looks like we definitely won't qualify based on the now even higher monthly income required, and although we would exceed the required investment amount, its the keeping it in the bank for a year, and its also the "what if" factor we have to consider. What if the person at the Mexican embasy, who is handling our application decides to deny us for no reason other than they have the power to do so. And if they do, is there an appeals process, or would that just piss them off and be giving them a reason to not even allow us to visit Mexico. According to some posts on here, it happens, or is it just an urban legend. If we decide Mexico is no longer for us, can anyone suggest anywhere else that Canadians can easily retire to without a $2000 + pension, somewhere that's like Mexico, sunny year round, not overly expensive, lower housing costs, not in a civil war, friendly people, easy to get to from Vancouver, etc etc. Maybe somewhere in the Caribbean, (but not Dominican Republic). Have considered Panama, Ecuador, but too far away and time consuming for us to return quickly incase of family emergency back in BC, and most family/friends wouldn't visit due to the distance and cost. Thanks All.

Click to expand...

_Well, Cowi, that´s a tall order since Mexico is the best place to live on this planet . Are you set on the highlands or the beach? There is a huge difference in climate and an important consideration in finding a place where you would like to live full time. You say that Panama and Ecuador are not convemient so that means that Central and South Ameica do not suit you. You wish to find an aquable climate south of BC so, if Mexico and Central and South America are out you have only one reasonable alternative that meets your stated criteria outside of the Dominican Republic which I find quite appealing but you have excluded as a choice. I suggest the rural South Central California Coast. It´s inexpensive and quite attractive with a pleasant climate and friendly ******** as far as the eye can see. I might have favored this área as a retirement haven except for my need to escape California state income taxes on my IRA drawdowns after retirement since we earned our income in California over the years. 

The U.S, or, perhaps the Dominican Republic seem your best choices. We have a friend who moved from the Lake Chapala área back to Vancouver several months ago after finding living at Lake Chapala challenging for various reasons and now, after months of constant drizzle and damp cold there in BC, she wishes she were back at Lake Chapala. You need to get out of that rain forest before you lose your mind.


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## cowichangang (Aug 11, 2012)

Hound Dog said:


> You need to get out of that rain forest before you lose your mind.


Guessing you have never been to southern Vancouver island between May and Sept- October last week it was high 70's- 80 ish, today its first day in over a week its been under 70, no measurable rain in at least 2 weeks. Anyway, anywhere in the U.S and U.S Virgin Island are out due to the 180 days per year rule, and the high cost of almost everything including health care. We might do the U.S if we could afford a 2nd home somewhere else for the other 6 months of the year, but we can't, DR is out due to the high crime rate for such a small county, since we are not into staying within a locked compound 24/7 or living at a resort type complex. Jamaica is out for same reasons. Before anyone says anything, I am sure those are lovely places for some expats to live , but not us.
And I agree, Mexico is the best place, but they are just making it so hard. Costa Rica is a maybe, but have to investigate accessibility from BC a bit more plus other things. But anywhere in SA is probably a no. We are beach lovers, so sunshine year round, nice, warm water (saltwater), sandy beaches, palm trees.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

You should look into Antigua, Guatemala. Residency is easy but most expats make a border run to Mexico. Antigua has a mild, spring like climate, beautiful scenery. Shopping in nearby Guatemala City is excellent(in certain "zones" but much of GC is a bit rough). Excellent airline connections to the States. Antigua has a sizable expat community. An excellent selection of restaurants. Or why not just live on tourist cards in Mexico? Many thousands of Americans and most likely many Canadians are living just south of Tijuana on the Baja coast. Has San Diegoish mild weather. You don't need car permits there either. Bring your Canadian Shaw Direct satellite receiver with you. And I really recommend San Miguel de Allende. Although to get home to Canada from there will require some travel to Mexico City. When you factor that in you might as well be in Quito, Ecuador.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Just read your reply to Hound Dog. From what I'm reading if you want the coast plus quick access to Vancouver then you should consider the places tourists go in droves. Good airline connections in such places, especially Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Mazatlan, Ixtapa/Zihuatenejo. The greater area of the first two have numerous nearby beach communities with plenty of North Americans.


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## cowichangang (Aug 11, 2012)

vantexan said:


> Just read your reply to Hound Dog. From what I'm reading if you want the coast plus quick access to Vancouver then you should consider the places tourists go in droves. Good airline connections in such places, especially Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Mazatlan, Ixtapa/Zihuatenejo. The greater area of the first two have numerous nearby beach communities with plenty of North Americans.


Thanks, but looking for places to consider that are not in Mexico because of the new financial requirements they have imposed, and I am still unsure about making any property purchases in Mexico using only the 180 day visas, which was sort of the basis for my first ever posting back on August 11th, 2012 titled, Pro's & Con's living with just a tourista visa,. Believe me, if it's at all a viable option, Mexico will still be our first choice, just want to have a fall back option.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

cowichangang said:


> Guessing you have never been to southern Vancouver island between May and Sept- October last week it was high 70's- 80 ish, today its first day in over a week its been under 70, no measurable rain in at least 2 weeks....


I have indeed been to Vancouver Island, Cowi but in February. I left, not because of the drizzle and damp cold but because I was there on a Sunday in the 1960s and in those days Sunday Blue Laws prevented my having the privilege od buying a drink of alcohol so I, as an impetuous youth, left forthwith and drove back into the states . I can tolerate rain or shine but I cannot tolerate blue laws. I understand those laws are now history but BC is no longer on my "to do" list. as I am an inveterate sunshine hog at all times of the year so Mexico is my haunt to the exclusión of even Northern California, my home for three decades, which is a fine place in many ways.

I enjoy stereotyping places but you must not take me seriously. I am from Mobile on hhe Alabama coast which actually gets more annual rain than the city of Vancouver although I have no statistics on Vancouver Island but the rain in Mobile comes in short, violent outbursts unlike the steady and incessant chipi-chipi of coastal BC. I liked the tropical, violent climate of the Mobile área but the excessive humidity curled my hair and caused my jockey shorts to cling to my butt so I moved to San Francisco where it´s almost always cool and there are no wáter moccasins on the bayfront.

Here is a funny story I may have told before.

In 1970, we moved from Mobile to San Francisco because of a job offer I had received by a bank there and, about a week or so after we arrived in San Francisco, 
we were invited to a cocktail party on San Francisco´s snotty Nob Hill and as we mingled among my new colleages at the bank, few of whom knew me or my wife at that point, we engaged in idle chat as prople are prone to do. My wife who is from Paris, and I, became separated and as she strolled the floor a banker twit inquired as to how she had come to be in San Francisco after having been raised in Paris. She replied that she had come to Mpbile on a short term work visa to teach French in Mobile, had decided to stay in the states and later had followed her new husband when he got a job opportunity in th Bay Area. This banker snot responded, "How could you have lived in Mobile. That city is full of reednecks." She replied, "Tell me, I married one." 
.


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## Jolga (Jun 5, 2012)

Have you considered Belize? Yes, it's not Mexico but as a plan B it might fit the bill. It all depends on your patience level, adaptability and pragmatism.

Here's a starting link to get you going How to Live or Retire in Belize


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Dawg says: "Well, Cowi, that´s a tall order since Mexico is the best place to live on this planet ." 

Please........I know it must be your opinion because the 2014 best retirement countries are out and Mexico does not even make the top five....

U.S News top five=
1.Panama
2. France
3. Belize
4. Ecuador
5. Thailand
6. Mexico

International Living=
1. Panama
2. Ecuador
3. Malaysia
4. Costa Rica
5. Spain

7. Mexico


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


chicois8 said:



Dawg says: "Well, Cowi, that´s a tall order since Mexico is the best place to live on this planet ." 

Please........I know it must be your opinion because the 2014 best retirement countries are out and Mexico does not even make the top five....

U.S News top five=
1.Panama
2. France
3. Belize
4. Ecuador
5. Thailand
6. Mexico

International Living=
1. Panama
2. Ecuador
3. Malaysia
4. Costa Rica
5. Spain

7. Mexico

Click to expand...

_Pretty good Chicois. Except for Ecuador, Panama and Costa Rica, I have spent some time in all of those contries and I would seriously consider moving to France or, more specifically Provence , Remember my wife is French but that is not an easy country to which to move to and in which to acquire citizenship even if you are married to a French nationas although it can be done if one becomes profiicient in the French language - a not so simple task for most of us.

* I wouled consider Thailand for the wonderful food but the country itself is a bit of a bore.
* Malaysia is the way to get overland from Thailand to Singapore and instantly forgotten including the boring capital of Kuala Lumpur.
*
Belize is the legacy of the now defunct British Honduras which was stolen from Guatemala. A crime ridden hellhole of no consequence. 

Yáll go where ever you are pleased to go. Mexico does not need you.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

chicois8 said:


> Dawg says: "Well, Cowi, that´s a tall order since Mexico is the best place to live on this planet ."
> 
> Please........I know it must be your opinion because the 2014 best retirement countries are out and Mexico does not even make the top five....
> 
> ...


I'd be interested in knowing what criteria were used to formulate these rankings.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

These are not my choices, I am sure I've been coming to Mexico long before you knew where it was...


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## Jolga (Jun 5, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> I'd be interested in knowing what criteria were used to formulate these rankings.


I think that once Us News and even more so $International$ $Giving$ (money to them) have "discovered" a place, whatever might have made it good years before has been squeezed out of it. Nothing can kill a good spot more quickly than being "a la mode" "in fashion" or "discovered".

As for France being on the list, excuse me while I scratch my head for a half hour. :frusty:Being from Quebec Canada I speak perfect French but I have never considered it for retirement. Granted their free health care is world class, but apart from that that I can't think of any compelling reasons to spend your final years there. It's a sad reality that we will decline with age but to compound that with retiring in a breathtakingly expensive country that is in decline, in a shaky union that may break up at any time, is risky at best. Also the Euro is vastly overvalued at 20% over the Canadian dollar. Can you take a 20% or more hit on your CDN to Euro conversions?

Speaking of being discovered I am a bit worried that this about to happen to our paradise in Mazatlan. We bought here because property values were way down due to the city being unjustly perceived as dangerous. Now it's becoming THE place to be, speculation and greed are starting to rear their ugly heads. We are all for progress and wish the wonderful people here success but as we all know money is never free, and there will be a down side. Oh well, at least we got in just before the new Renaissance.

Try and find the hidden gem BEFORE it gets discovered.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> I'd be interested in knowing what criteria were used to formulate these rankings.


I know International living rates about 9 or 10 categories and averages them together. Things such as climate, crime, recreation, cost of living, healthcare, etc. And while it's true they've had an adverse affect on specific cities, they also put out descriptions of many places that are helpful because one size doesn't fit all. Panama rates highest because they have, primarily, the easiest residency plus the best overall retiree perks. Discounts on everything, etc. But Panama doesn't have the breadth of choice Mexico offers, there's always concessions to be made in choosing a small country.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Hi Isla, seems you deleted a reply I made to the OP. Wasn't intended to be snarky, the OP seems to be greatly concerned about being targeted and not allowed in on a tourist visa.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Jolga said:


> Have you considered Belize? Yes, it's not Mexico but as a plan B it might fit the bill. It all depends on your patience level, adaptability and pragmatism.
> 
> Here's a starting link to get you going How to Live or Retire in Belize


Belize really is for those who like to rough it. Two 2 lane highways intersect near the middle of the country, no grocery chains, minimum infrastructure. Ambergris Caye would be fun, but overall, with hurricanes, high crime, high humidity, the only reason I can see living there is English is spoken.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

I hesitate to propose this, but here goes. Along the U.S. Gulf Coast the living can be very reasonable and the people and places quite unique. 4 seasons exist, so that may be a problem for you. Housing, food , gasoline, lots of things cheaper and better than in Mexico. But, as Dawg states, humidity exists, and it takes special people who love it to live there. LA is indeed a Sportsman's Paradise, and Texas is like a Whole Other Country. Mississippi, Alabama, lots of great places/beach areas to pick from. Just a passing thought. Probably best to forget this suggestion and live in Mexico on a Tourist Card, like my friends have done for 15 years, renewing at the Border every 6 months. They own their house in Mexico and have use of their NOB car all the time.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

vantexan said:


> Hi Isla, seems you deleted a reply I made to the OP. Wasn't intended to be snarky, the OP seems to be greatly concerned about being targeted and not allowed in on a tourist visa.


I haven't deleted anything you've posted here.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> I haven't deleted anything you've posted here.


That's weird as a post of mine disappeared. Just pointed out to the OP that Mexico gets millions of visitors, not likely wasting resources targeting individuals, and even if they denied him residency based on investing in a home, they'd still let him live on tourist cards as long as he wants. They want us to spend time and money there. My post disappeared the same time Hounddog's did.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

vantexan said:


> That's weird as a post of mine disappeared. Just pointed out to the OP that Mexico gets millions of visitors, not likely wasting resources targeting individuals, and even if they denied him residency based on investing in a home, they'd still let him live on tourist cards as long as he wants. They want us to spend time and money there. My post disappeared the same time Hounddog's did.


I believe the posts you are referring to are on the thread "Where to apply".


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

ojosazules11 said:


> I believe the posts you are referring to are on the thread "Where to apply".





> Thanks! Only 52 and already having "senior" moments! Apologies Isla!


Apology accepted. And I thought it was I who was having a senior moment!


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

I can see how Mexico is not near the top in either list mainly due to the ever increasing higher cost of living in major areas , the increased financial requirements for visas, and of course the overall murder rate. (and yes I know, its mostly drug related, but a murder is a murder when they compile these lists) But how the **** did France make #2 on U.S News top places?. Everything considered, Panama does deserve #1 as they do have the best overall retirement benefits and low income and investment requirements, and on the IL list, former #1 for a the last few years, Ecuador only missed being #1 by 1 point, on a scale of 100.

U.S. News=
1.Panama
2. France
3. Belize
4. Ecuador
5. Thailand
6. Mexico

International Living=
1. Panama
2. Ecuador
3. Malaysia
4. Costa Rica
5. Spain

7. Mexico


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Many countries are adopting higher income requirements for expats, not just Mexico. Whether or not Mexico is a good, or the best place to retire on limited income is subjective and that determination will vary widely. For people living in the USA and/or Canada ... they're a bit closer to the news about the negatives occurring in the country and, therefore, are probably less likely to consider retiring to Mexico as compared to retiring to other countries (some of which also have negatives).


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Longford said:


> Many countries are adopting higher income requirements for expats, not just Mexico. Whether or not Mexico is a good, or the best place to retire on limited income is subjective and that determination will vary widely. For people living in the USA and/or Canada ... they're a bit closer to the news about the negatives occurring in the country and, therefore, are probably less likely to consider retiring to Mexico as compared to retiring to other countries (some of which also have negatives).


Generally not Central and South America. A single person in Nicaragua only needs $700 a month income for residency. Of course there are more Americans living in some Mexican cities than all of Nicaragua(4000). You get what you pay for though, and Mexico is certainly more developed than most Latin American countries.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

vantexan said:


> Generally not Central and South America. A single person in Nicaragua only needs $700 a month income for residency. Of course there are more Americans living in some Mexican cities than all of Nicaragua(4000). You get what you pay for though, and Mexico is certainly more developed than most Latin American countries.


And, if you want to visit the USA, it is only a short drive compared to the distance and expense involved in the other places mentioned above. Alternatively, there are luxury buses and direct flights from major Mexican cities.

As for the financial requirements; only one person in a family needs to qualify. Then, once he has his residence visa in hand, the other family members, who came in as tourists, can apply for equal status under familial rules.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> And, if you want to visit the USA, it is only a short drive compared to the distance and expense involved in the other places mentioned above. Alternatively, there are luxury buses and direct flights from major Mexican cities.
> 
> As for the financial requirements; only one person in a family needs to qualify. Then, once he has his residence visa in hand, the other family members, who came in as tourists, can apply for equal status under familial rules.


Depends. Spirit Airlines and Aeromexico are pretty affordable and will get you home faster from Central America than driving from central Mexico. Southwest Airlines will soon be operating in the area too.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

RVGRINGO said:


> And, if you want to visit the USA, it is only a short drive compared to the distance and expense involved in the other places mentioned above. Alternatively, there are luxury buses and direct flights from major Mexican cities.
> 
> As for the financial requirements; only one person in a family needs to qualify. Then, once he has his residence visa in hand, the other family members, who came in as tourists, can apply for equal status under familial rules.


Actually in many countries, such as Nicaragua or Ecuador, the head of the household needs income equal to the minimum amount required, such as $700 a month in Nicaragua, and then $100 to $200 monthly per dependent, depending on the country.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

vantexan said:


> Generally not Central and South America. A single person in Nicaragua only needs $700 a month income for residency. Of course there are more Americans living in some Mexican cities than all of Nicaragua(4000). You get what you pay for though, and Mexico is certainly more developed than most Latin American countries.


One reason for that, no doubt, is that Nicaragua is a very poor country where the cost-of-living must be much lower than it is in more developed countries like Mexico.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Vantexan, I was going to post a facetious comment and ask how much money you were being paid to promote expat retirement in Ecuador and Nicaragua. Instead, I'll ask if you have ever spent extended periods of time in either country, which would give you an idea of what it might be like to live there. There is more to life than a low-cost-of-living, you know.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I would also question how often he has come and stayed in Mexico or Guatemala except for the very short stint in San Miguel . Reading info on the internet and actually experiencing a place are two very different propositions.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> I would also question how often he has come and stayed in Mexico or Guatemala except for the very short stint in San Miguel . Reading info on the internet and actually experiencing a place are two very different propositions.


From the excerpts of his telenovela-like life that he's shared with us, I get the feeling that he was happy to stay in San Miguel, but his bride freaked out and demanded to be taken back to the States.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

San Miguel is a very pretty place not exactly for the super adventurous either, a good transition for anyone to Mexico.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

RVGRINGO said:


> And, if you want to visit the USA, it is only a short drive compared to the distance and expense involved in the other places mentioned above. Alternatively, there are luxury buses and direct flights from major Mexican cities.


Proximity to "home" is a key consideration for expats looking to relocate outside the usa.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> One reason for that, no doubt, is that Nicaragua is a very poor country where the cost-of-living must be much lower than it is in more developed countries like Mexico.


It's the 2nd poorest country in the Western Hemisphere, after Haiti. And yet there are Americans and others there who love it. Some active groups on Facebook. Much of the country is boiling hot but there are some higher altitude cities in the north with reasonable climates. Managua used to be a very beautiful colonial capital, but was literally destroyed by a huge earthquake in the early 70's. it's modern version is supposed to be fairly unpleasant, but it does have malls and such. It has a very good hospital that's affiliated with Johns Hopkins if I remember right.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

citlali said:


> San Miguel is a very pretty place not exactly for the super adventurous either, a good transition for anyone to Mexico.


Which is why I brought her there, thinking she'd handle any culture shock better. Oh well.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

citlali said:


> I would also question how often he has come and stayed in Mexico or Guatemala except for the very short stint in San Miguel . Reading info on the internet and actually experiencing a place are two very different propositions.


True, but wasn't there a time when you were starting out, learning the ropes? I've lived and worked in several cities on the border, and certainly enjoyed not only San Miguel, but Dolores Hidalgo too. Really liked what I saw briefly of San Luis Potosí. There isn't an expat gene, just a willingness to try. By the way I lived in a 26' travel trailer for 12 years and did without a car for many of those years. I'm not a spoiled American, I understand living with less and I enjoy that mindset.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

No I never looked at the internet about living abroad. I traveled in Mexico when I was younger and always got sick here so I was not really thinking about Mexico when we decided to retire. I actually looked at the south and then remembered the weather and some other things, looked at Arizona, Tucson and New Mexico. I always liked the West and had worked there so I was very familiar with the areas and knew the pluses and minuses.

We had a couple who worked for us and one of them was from Nicaragua and the other from Guatemala, their son was a doctor and was sent to work on an AIDs project don there, they went to visit him and came back raving about Oaxaca. We had never been there so I was curious, then I remembered our trip to San Miguel so I decided to go and check out a few areas, as I was leaving my husband said to me why don´t you check Ajijic, a lot of Americans retire there. I left for Guadalajara ready to hate Ajijic. Came fell in love with it and bought a house the first week I was therej and sent pictures to my husband,
That is how we moved to Mexico..no great planning but it worked out for us, a few months later we moved to Mexico with our dogs and cats and not much else... I try to keep life very simple and do not need the Internet to complicate it, 
I go and check things out and move on..
I have no regrets and if I did I would adjust the course, my husband worries a little more but usuay goes along as well. I guess I am lucky, I do not dream as I found out long time ago that dreams are often better than reality. 
I never thought you were a spoiled American, I actually thing you probably are a really nice guy with a dream . I am sorry your partner did not have the same dream and would not go along with yours for a while but I have a feeeling you will keep trying and hope that eventually you can realize it.


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> I'd be interested in knowing what criteria were used to formulate these rankings.


What country was # 6 on the IL list? I no longer subscribe so can't access the full results anymore. Don't know how US News does it, but IL uses things like cost of living, cost and ease of buying property, ease of obtaining visas, infrastructure, safety, medical care/costs, cost of everyday living, weather, political stability etc etc. I know I am missing a few things, but like I said, I no longer subscribe, although I do still get the please come back emails or buy our books for 30% off, plus the IL postcard emails, which are sometimes interesting, but are also more of a re-subscribe to IL and you'll get the full story type of emails.
Perhaps someone who does subscribe could cut and paste the full results with the graphs showing how each country rated and what the categories are.:ranger:


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## gringotim (Jan 5, 2011)

gringotim said:


> What country was # 6 on the IL list? I no longer subscribe so can't access the full results anymore. Don't know how US News does it, but IL uses things like cost of living, cost and ease of buying property, ease of obtaining visas, infrastructure, safety, medical care/costs, cost of everyday living, weather, political stability etc etc. I know I am missing a few things, but like I said, I no longer subscribe, although I do still get the please come back emails or buy our books for 30% off, plus the IL postcard emails, which are sometimes interesting, but are also more of a re-subscribe to IL and you'll get the full story type of emails.
> Perhaps someone who does subscribe could cut and paste the full results with the graphs showing how each country rated and what the categories are.:ranger:


I just found the list, Columbia was #6, however it won't let me copy it to paste here, but will keep trying, but for now, here is what they use to rate the countries,

Accurately scoring the world’s top retirement locations is a complex process. So, we’ve broken down each of our categories to give you a “behind the curtain” look at how we put the Index together.

Real Estate: Countries where real estate prices are low and the purchase of real estate is relatively easy received good scores. For 2014, we have also taken the average purchase price and rental price per square meter into consideration. And we’ve added a “value factor,” based on reports from our contributing editors and from real estate contacts around the world on how much bang for your buck you get when buying real estate in each country.

Special Benefits: This category considers government provisions that make moving to and living in each country easier and more affordable for foreign retirees. Taken into account are discounts on health care, public transport, airfares, entertainment, utilities, whether you can import goods duty free, property rights for foreign residents, and property tax rates.

Cost of Living: This score is based on the first-hand information collected by our editors and contributors. We look at the daily costs a couple encounter in a destination, utilities, groceries, transport…we ask how much a good meal costs, and if the price of a movie ticket or a day trip out of the city is low…

Ease of Integration: In order to score countries in this category, we looked at things like the degree to which English is spoken, the friendliness of the locals, the size of the existing expat community and the availability of home comforts.

Entertainment and Amenities: Here, we looked at the range of activities open to expats. We rated the quality and availability of restaurants, movie theaters, outdoor activities and local music and art. We also ask our in-country contacts to rate the variety of activities on a scale to see how much excitement you can find in a destination.

Health Care: Considered in this category are the cost of health care and the quality. How much a typical visit to a general practitioner tells you a lot, as does cost and the coverage particulars of health insurance. Also considered are the number of people per doctor, the number of hospital beds per 1,000 people, the percentage of the population with access to safe water, the infant mortality rate, life expectancy, and public health expenditure as a percentage of a country’s GDP.

Retirement Infrastructure: We look at the quality of the roads, the availability of good public transport, the number of cell phones, and Internet penetration, and how easy it is to get to and from the U.S. and Canada by plane.

Climate: Countries with temperate weather throughout the year, moderate rainfall and little risk of natural disaster come out on top in this category. This year, we also took the comfort factor into consideration for the first time. We use data representing each country as a whole instead of favoring one region over another.


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## mexhapati (Nov 29, 2012)

*Costa rica*

i often wonder where i would go if i ever left mexico, costa rica is a great option

climate is similar to where we live now, and as i get older climate seems to be very VERY close to being #1 priority


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

mexhapati said:


> i often wonder where i would go if i ever left mexico, costa rica is a great option
> 
> climate is similar to where we live now, and as i get older climate seems to be very VERY close to being #1 priority


Apart from a pleasant climate (which I agree is a very important factor to consider), what other charms does Costa Rica offer to a prospective expat?


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## Guategringo (Nov 9, 2012)

It has been a long time since I posted but here goes. I am back in Guatemala after a short stay in Mexico. Guatemala has been home for over 20 years. I still would take Guatemala over Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Honduras and El Salvador hands down. Mexico however has soooooo much to offer that it is hard not to find the perfect place. However, having said that I would not trade Antigua, Guatemala for very many places anywhere. Good people, good food, incredible customs, traditions, inexpensive, wealth of fruits and vegetables and such history. The second largest celebration of Holy Week in the world behind just Spain. The country has a nice Pacific Coast destination in Monterrico, the Caribbean with Livingston, Puerto Barrios and Izabal. One of the most important Maya cities of all in Tikal, a dozen more scattered around the country, 23 volcanoes of which some are still active, rainforests, cloud forests and as the late Aldous Huxley the famous writer once wrote - the most beautiful high mountain lake in the world - Lake Atitlan. Crime sure, but what country does not have any. Problems between locals and expats - few if any.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Guategringo said:


> It has been a long time since I posted but here goes. I am back in Guatemala after a short stay in Mexico. Guatemala has been home for over 20 years. I still would take Guatemala over Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Honduras and El Salvador hands down. Mexico however has soooooo much to offer that it is hard not to find the perfect place. However, having said that I would not trade Antigua, Guatemala for very many places anywhere. Good people, good food, incredible customs, traditions, inexpensive, wealth of fruits and vegetables and such history. The second largest celebration of Holy Week in the world behind just Spain. The country has a nice Pacific Coast destination in Monterrico, the Caribbean with Livingston, Puerto Barrios and Izabal. One of the most important Maya cities of all in Tikal, a dozen more scattered around the country, 23 volcanoes of which some are still active, rainforests, cloud forests and as the late Aldous Huxley the famous writer once wrote - the most beautiful high mountain lake in the world - Lake Atitlan. Crime sure, but what country does not have any. Problems between locals and expats - few if any.


I think the mountains of Guatemala make for one of the world's great destinations. But you can't compare the coasts with the beaches of Costa Rica. Even Nicaragua's one true beach destination, San Juan del Sur, is much better than anything Guatemala has. And El Salvador's beaches are attracting a lot of surfers. People who aren't into beaches should love Guatemala, but for water Guatemala truly shines with the Rio Dulce, Semuc Champey, and Flores.


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## Guategringo (Nov 9, 2012)

vantexan said:


> I think the mountains of Guatemala make for one of the world's great destinations. But you can't compare the coasts with the beaches of Costa Rica. Even Nicaragua's one true beach destination, San Juan del Sur, is much better than anything Guatemala has. And El Salvador's beaches are attracting a lot of surfers. People who aren't into beaches should love Guatemala, but for water Guatemala truly shines with the Rio Dulce, Semuc Champey, and Flores.


The western highlands of Guatemala are beautiful but the charm, history, colonial architecture, centuries old monasteries, convents and churches take the cake in Guatemala. Not sure how much you have been to Nicaragua or Guatemala vantexan, but Monterrico is beautiful with miles and miles of black sand beaches, turtle sanctuaries, mangroves loaded with wildlife and more. On the Caribbean side there is Amatique Bay, Playa Dorada and Playa Blanca, which are all white sand tranquil beaches. 
I would rather not be around surfers in El Salvador or Guatemala, not my cup of tea.

Surprising vantexan how you do not mention Lake Izabal or Lake Atitlan in your comments about the water in Guatemala. Those two lakes are the most well known in all of Central America and Lake Atitlan is one of the most well known in all of Latin America.
Do not forget the thermal springs in Xela known as fuentes Georginas, straight from the volcano.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Guategringo said:


> The western highlands of Guatemala are beautiful but the charm, history, colonial architecture, centuries old monasteries, convents and churches take the cake in Guatemala. Not sure how much you have been to Nicaragua or Guatemala vantexan, but Monterrico is beautiful with miles and miles of black sand beaches, turtle sanctuaries, mangroves loaded with wildlife and more. On the Caribbean side there is Amatique Bay, Playa Dorada and Playa Blanca, which are all white sand tranquil beaches.
> I would rather not be around surfers in El Salvador or Guatemala, not my cup of tea.
> 
> Surprising vantexan how you do not mention Lake Izabal or Lake Atitlan in your comments about the water in Guatemala. Those two lakes are the most well known in all of Central America and Lake Atitlan is one of the most well known in all of Latin America.
> Do not forget the thermal springs in Xela known as fuentes Georginas, straight from the volcano.


Sorry, I was including Lake Izabal by referring to the Rio Dulce, and Lake Atitlan by referring to the mountains. Just for reference I'm including from Guatemala City westward as part of the mountains. But seriously, Guatemala really isn't a coastal destination if compared first and foremost with Costa Rica. You may like Monterrico, but the crowds are elsewhere.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

vantexan said:


> Sorry, I was including Lake Izabal by referring to the Rio Dulce, and Lake Atitlan by referring to the mountains. Just for reference I'm including from Guatemala City westward as part of the mountains. But seriously, Guatemala really isn't a coastal destination if compared first and foremost with Costa Rica. You may like Monterrico, but the crowds are elsewhere.


Nothing I dislike more than crowded beaches, so Monterrico sounds pretty good to me!


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## Guategringo (Nov 9, 2012)

vantexan said:


> Sorry, I was including Lake Izabal by referring to the Rio Dulce, and Lake Atitlan by referring to the mountains. Just for reference I'm including from Guatemala City westward as part of the mountains. But seriously, Guatemala really isn't a coastal destination if compared first and foremost with Costa Rica. You may like Monterrico, but the crowds are elsewhere.


Just the reason I like it - my family and miles of empty beach. Just because the crowds are elsewhere does not make it better or does it? Now the big question vantexan have you ever been to - the Rio Dulce, Lake Izabal, Lake Atitlan, Monterrico or Playa Dorado. If you have been to them than I would respect what you say if you feel for example the Caribbean coast of Costa Rica is better than that of Guatemala. But if you have not been there then I would not believe everything you read. 
the Rio Dulce and lake Izabal are very closely but vastly different. Lake Izabal is a huge fresh water lake and the rio dulce is a fresh water river with towering gorges hundreds of feet high that flows into the Caribbean.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Guategringo said:


> Just the reason I like it - my family and miles of empty beach. Just because the crowds are elsewhere does not make it better or does it? Now the big question vantexan have you ever been to - the Rio Dulce, Lake Izabal, Lake Atitlan, Monterrico or Playa Dorado. If you have been to them than I would respect what you say if you feel for example the Caribbean coast of Costa Rica is better than that of Guatemala. But if you have not been there then I would not believe everything you read.
> the Rio Dulce and lake Izabal are very closely but vastly different. Lake Izabal is a huge fresh water lake and the rio dulce is a fresh water river with towering gorges hundreds of feet high that flows into the Caribbean.


Lake Izabal is also the headwaters of the Rio Dulce. Now please tell me, if a person moves to the U.S.A. or Mexico or Guatemala from somewhere else does that make him automatically more informed on said country than someone else who has researched that country for many years? I gladly defer to someone such as yourself who has much experience in your country, but if I don't draw my 20 years of research just from guidebooks but also reading informed posts on many forums from people just like you, are you saying that their info is less valid than your opinion? Costa Rica attracts crowds because their beaches are extremely nice, and they have the infrastructure to assist people in having a good time. I've read many times from people that have been there that Guatemala has many wonderful attributes, but the coast isn't one of them. I admire your zeal for all things Guatemalan, but if I'm looking for a beach holiday I'm not likely to trust the opinion of one over the many, especially if he's very partisan. I haven't had the good fortune of traveling much outside the U.S. other than Canada, but when I do I'll be as informed as I can be so that I don't waste time in situations I don't like. I'm not a beach person anyways if the weather is hot, and I'd much rather spend my time in places like Antigua. But I'll put my book learnin' up against anyone who heard from a friend of a friend any day of the week.


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## Guategringo (Nov 9, 2012)

vantexan said:


> Lake Izabal is also the headwaters of the Rio Dulce. Now please tell me, if a person moves to the U.S.A. or Mexico or Guatemala from somewhere else does that make him automatically more informed on said country than someone else who has researched that country for many years? I gladly defer to someone such as yourself who has much experience in your country, but if I don't draw my 20 years of research just from guidebooks but also reading informed posts on many forums from people just like you, are you saying that their info is less valid than your opinion? Costa Rica attracts crowds because their beaches are extremely nice, and they have the infrastructure to assist people in having a good time. I've read many times from people that have been there that Guatemala has many wonderful attributes, but the coast isn't one of them. I admire your zeal for all things Guatemalan, but if I'm looking for a beach holiday I'm not likely to trust the opinion of one over the many, especially if he's very partisan. I haven't had the good fortune of traveling much outside the U.S. other than Canada, but when I do I'll be as informed as I can be so that I don't waste time in situations I don't like. I'm not a beach person anyways if the weather is hot, and I'd much rather spend my time in places like Antigua. But I'll put my book learnin' up against anyone who heard from a friend of a friend any day of the week.


When considering a destination besides Mexico as the OP mentioned one must consider all there is available. The seven countries of Central America are so small that everything each country has to offer comes into play, whereas Mexico is so large that someone living in Baja California likely would not worry about problems with Guatemalan illegals crossing into Tapachula. 
However, in Guatemala you can drive from Antigua, the colonial gem of the Americas, and be on the Pacific coast in a little over an hour and the Caribbean coast in five hours. In Costa Rica, you can enjoy surfing off the Nicoya Peninsula in the morning and drive to San Jose for dinner in the evening. 
If you want to compare Guatemala and Costa Rica for pure tourist attractions and other activities both offer a great deal. Costa Rica wins hands down if you like the ocean. If you like the high mountains then Guatemala with Quetzaltenango, Lake Atitlan and Chichicastenango wins hands down. Maya is easily Guatemala since the Maya did not make it as far as Costa Rica. 
Volcanoes are a close call. You can drive to the top of Poas in Costa Rica and you can watch the fireworks of Arenal Volcano from a lake front cottage on Lake Arenal in Costa Rica as well. In Guatemala, there are 23 volcanoes of which some such as Fuego, Pacaya, Santiguito among others are still active and give fabulous light shows off and on during the year. You can walk across the lava fields on Pacaya with molten lava beneath your feet as steam rises from the ground
Guatemala City is the cosmopolitan center of Central America. There is a national theater, numerous galleries and museums and many restaurants from Hindu to Sushi and Italian to typical fare. San Jose is a little pueblo compared to Guatemala City.
Not so sure I am biased towards Guatemala since I have published tourism magazines for six of the seven countries for 15 years. You can read your books all you want and look at tripadvisor until you are blue in the face, but it will not give you 1% of what you experience being their first hand. 
Vantexan continue reading your books. What you have just read is firsthand not what a friend told a friend who told a friend.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Guategringo said:


> When considering a destination besides Mexico as the OP mentioned one must consider all there is available. The seven countries of Central America are so small that everything each country has to offer comes into play, whereas Mexico is so large that someone living in Baja California likely would not worry about problems with Guatemalan illegals crossing into Tapachula.
> However, in Guatemala you can drive from Antigua, the colonial gem of the Americas, and be on the Pacific coast in a little over an hour and the Caribbean coast in five hours. In Costa Rica, you can enjoy surfing off the Nicoya Peninsula in the morning and drive to San Jose for dinner in the evening.
> If you want to compare Guatemala and Costa Rica for pure tourist attractions and other activities both offer a great deal. Costa Rica wins hands down if you like the ocean. If you like the high mountains then Guatemala with Quetzaltenango, Lake Atitlan and Chichicastenango wins hands down. Maya is easily Guatemala since the Maya did not make it as far as Costa Rica.
> Volcanoes are a close call. You can drive to the top of Poas in Costa Rica and you can watch the fireworks of Arenal Volcano from a lake front cottage on Lake Arenal in Costa Rica as well. In Guatemala, there are 23 volcanoes of which some such as Fuego, Pacaya, Santiguito among others are still active and give fabulous light shows off and on during the year. You can walk across the lava fields on Pacaya with molten lava beneath your feet as steam rises from the ground
> ...


Not did I say it was. I'm just saying there are plenty who totally discount any knowledge unless you've been there. I may not have been there, but I've talked to many people over many years who have been, and on just about every forum there is. I've followed Xela Pages for example for close to 8 years now. People who move to a particular town still may have little background on the history, culture, etc., they've just heard from friends that it's cool there, and cheap. Not to disparage your knowledge, I know it's extensive, but you also have a paper trail on this forum that suggests you are very biased towards Guatemala. More power to you, if you love it, you love it. I think very highly of it too, and have defended Guatemala here against detractors who are pro-Mexico who don't consider Central America even worthy of consideration.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

But, surely we are all biased and prejudiced somewhat, it's just human nature. Anyone reading these pages should understand that and also understand that most peoples likes, dislikes, and views will be all over the place. What works for one cannot be expected to work always for another. Each of us in unique in his/her own way.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

coondawg said:


> But, surely we are all biased and prejudiced somewhat, it's just human nature. Anyone reading these pages should understand that and also understand that most peoples likes, dislikes, and views will be all over the place. What works for one cannot be expected to work always for another. Each of us in unique in his/her own way.


Absolutely! I just don't want to be told by someone that their opinion is valid but other opinions aren't, especially if read somewhere(as if I didn't read their's too!).


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

come on Isla, time to shut this tele novina off. put it out of its misery ...............


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

chicois8 said:


> come on Isla, time to shut this tele novina off. put it out of its misery ...............


Funny - I was thinking the same thing . . . I will consult with my fellow mod Tundra Green, still gallivanting around Anatolia, and will take action (or not) soon.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> Funny - I was thinking the same thing . . . I will consult with my fellow mod Tundra Green, still gallivanting around Anatolia, and will take action (or not) soon.


Agreed.


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