# Check is in the mail.



## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

We have all handed a large bill to the checker at Chedraui and seen them hold it up to the light looking for the watermarks, no offense is mean't or taken.

We went and looked for a used Toyota and wound up checking out a new 2017 Hilux. We asked and were stunned when they said that they would accept a personal check but it could take 21 days to clear. I converted the dollars to pesos and wrote out the check. I added "Full payment 2017 Hilux" in the memo line. They accepted it and wrote me a receipt. 

A few days later the salesman called and said that we would need more money so we went to the dealership. The "general manager" explained that the peso had changed and indeed it had, there was now a $245.00 difference. A small change of the peso we don't even notice, but on $20,250.00 USD it is a difference that you notice. He also lost some at the bank on the check.

He had a funny look on his face as he punched his calculator and kept saying "difference". I point blank asked him if there was a problem and he would then change, he would smile and say "No, there is no problem" but he kept on playing with the calculator and the "difference." He hem hawed around more so I told him that on the day he made the deal the check was for the correct amount, he then accepted the check and shook my hand. I pointed out the "Full payment" notation on the check. I told him that if he accepted a loss at the bank that was the cost of doing business and that had the peso went the other way that I doubt that he would be handing me back money. He asked us to come back in two days.

We did and he said that there was a 17,000 peso difference needed. I told him no and he said there was one more alternative. I said no there are two alternatives, a Nissan or a Mitsubishi truck, that if he lost money on the deal that was his choice to accept the loss and he could just give me back my money.

The "alternative" was a new truck, same model but a different color. Toyota issues a few "demos" to the managers which they can then sell at a discount. This one was destined for his service manager but it was the only way that he could give us a new truck and not lose money on paper. We will pick it up this evening.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

It doesn´t matter if you wrote: "My cat is a bad kitten" in the memo line of the check. If you have a contract in Mx. pesos that is what you agreed to pay in full. If the exchange rate went up or down whatever the company´s bank recieves from your USD check is what your payment is in pesos towards the contract price. If it is short $17,000 pesos towards your account and the agreed payment amount and you need to add the $17,000 pesos to complete the sale, then that is what you have to do to get the vehicle you wanted. You are not going to get anything for free in a peso to dollar exchange rate fluxuation even if it makes sense to you that you should.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

I'm with Zorro on this. He wrote a check for the amount that was agreed upon on the day he handed over the check. People don't get to change an amount just because the exchange rate goes up or down a few days later. Like he said, if the exchange rate had gone in favor of him, instead of the dealer, there is no hope in h. that the dealer would have refunded him a portion of the payment.


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## NCas (Sep 9, 2013)

A lot of the time when you request something outside of what customer service is used to I find that we go thru a lot of complications. I tried opening a brokerage account when I first arrived in Mexico with Actinver by writing them a check from my Wells Fargo account. They said it was possible, but soon I was making multiple trips and had to call the bank back in the US while at the offices at Actinver.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

surabi said:


> I'm with Zorro on this. He wrote a check for the amount that was agreed upon on the day he handed over the check. People don't get to change an amount just because the exchange rate goes up or down a few days later. Like he said, if the exchange rate had gone in favor of him, instead of the dealer, there is no hope in h. that the dealer would have refunded him a portion of the payment.


I totally disagree. If you have a sales contract in Mx. pesos that is what you owe the seller, not less or more. How do you know the dealer wouldn´t credit back him if the exchange rate went the other way? Do you know something we don´t know? When I buy a new car here I have confidence in the dealership just as if I was back in San Diego - no difference to me.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

AlanMexicali said:


> It doesn´t matter if you wrote: "My cat is a bad kitten" in the memo line of the check. If you have a contract in Mx. pesos that is what you agreed to pay in full. If the exchange rate went up or down whatever the company´s bank recieves from your USD check is what your payment is in pesos towards the contract price. If it is short $17,000 pesos towards your account and the agreed payment amount and you need to add the $17,000 pesos to complete the sale, then that is what you have to do to get the vehicle you wanted. You are not going to get anything for free in a peso to dollar exchange rate fluxuation even if it makes sense to you that you should.


The original factura is right here on my table in my name. We are going in at 5:00 to pick it up.


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

I agree with Alan. 
IMHO the official currency is Mexican Pesos. By law all transactions are in pesos, I think I read it somewhere a long time ago. 

20,250 for a new Hilux? Great price, if it is a 4Runner.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Here's where we use one of those internet abbreviations: 

IANALB:

I would say it depends on what the receipt says. If the receipt is written in pesos, then the dealer accepted Zorro's check as being worth that many pesos, at the time, and it's the dealer's problem. If the receipt shows that Zorro paid so many dollars, and the contracted debt is in pesos, then Zorro owes whatever the balance now is after crediting his payment. 

What's written on the memo of the check line ain't worth a centavo.

Unless the dealer had a sign posted that gave an exchange rate. 

If a seller has an exchange rate sign posted saying they accept dollars at a certain exchange rate, then when you pay in dollars from then on they carry the exchange rate risk - the exchange rate becomes part of the agreed deal. That's why retailers typically post really crappy exchange rates.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

AlanMexicali said:


> I totally disagree. If you have a sales contract in Mx. pesos that is what you owe the seller, not less or more. How do you know the dealer wouldn´t credit back him if the exchange rate went the other way? Do you know something we don´t know? When I buy a new car here I have confidence in the dealership just as if I was back in San Diego - no difference to me.


You can totally disagree all you want, you will still be totally wrong, again. Everyone knows that a sales contract is made in pesos in Mexico. American checks cannot be written in pesos, they say "Dollars" right on them. *But at any given moment pesos can be converted to dollars*. On the day the deal was made the price of 361,600 pesos, the asking price of the truck was $20,254.35 USD. Today that same 361,600 pesos is $20,355.41 USD. He accepted that amount that day as payment in full.

An American check is legal tender and a binding legal document. If the check says "Payment in full for 2017 Hilux" and the check is accepted, endorsed and cashed the other party cannot renegotiate the deal. As I told him, "Any lawyer can straighten this out quickly."

I have confidence in the dealership as well, but also know that he "took my temperature" as car dealers say in the states. He _tried _to get 17,000 more pesos but I refused and asked him if he intended to honor the deal that he made. That is when he located another truck that could be designated as a demo for his service manager, one that he could discount. No miles on it and the same equipment, better color though.

We just went and picked up all of the paperwork, the plates are on and I did not pay any additional money. The internet was down due to the earthquake so they couldn't get my insurance. They offered to type a letter stating that the insurance would be in effect until they can print out the policy but we decided to wait until we have the policy in hand before we take the truck tomorrow.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Zorro2017 said:


> You can totally disagree all you want, you will still be totally wrong, again. Everyone knows that a sales contract is made in pesos in Mexico. American checks cannot be written in pesos, they say "Dollars" right on them. *But at any given moment pesos can be converted to dollars*. On the day the deal was made the price of 361,600 pesos, the asking price of the truck was $20,254.35 USD. Today that same 361,600 pesos is $20,355.41 USD. He accepted that amount that day as payment in full.
> 
> An American check is legal tender and a binding legal document. If the check says "Payment in full for 2017 Hilux" and the check is accepted, endorsed and cashed the other party cannot renegotiate the deal. As I told him, "Any lawyer can straighten this out quickly."
> 
> ...


Cómo Establecer Obligaciones en Dólares? - ContraktoMx

Google Translation:

"Establishing payment obligations in dollars of the United States of America is the most common in Mexico, but what are their implications? In principle, take into account that dollars are not "valid" currency in Mexico and that is why, when writing contracts where the price is agreed in dollars is important to be precise not to fall into situations that may complicate their collection.

The Monetary Law of the United Mexican States (the "Monetary Law") establishes, among other things, that the unit of the monetary system in Mexico is the peso and that the only circulating currencies will be (a) Banco de México, SA , (b) metallic coins of 50, 20, 10, 5, 2 and 1 pesos and 50, 20, 10 and 5 cents (c) metallic coins commemorating events of national significance in platinum or gold , in silver or in industrial metals and (d) metallic coins, minted in gold and silver.

Later, the Monetary Law establishes that the foreign currency will not have legal tender in the Republic, with some exceptions, reason why the obligations of payment in foreign currency will be solved in Mexico delivering the equivalent in national currency, at the exchange rate in force in the place and date on which payment is to be made. This causes us to be able to define exactly what the "exchange rate" to which these obligations in foreign currency must be paid.

"The Purchaser agrees to pay the Seller the amount of USD $ 100,000.00 (one hundred thousand United States dollars 00/100), which shall be payable in pesos, national currency, at the" Fix "exchange rate published by the Bank of Mexico in the Official Gazette of the Federation the day before the date on which the payment is made. "

You will notice that I mentioned the "fix" exchange rate published by the Bank of Mexico .... What is this type of change? If we enter the website of the Bank of Mexico will see on the main page that one of the "main indicators" is the FIX (pesos per dollar) determined on a certain day. It also tells us that the Fix exchange rate is:

"... the exchange rate determined by the Bank of Mexico to settle obligations denominated in US dollars, payable in the Mexican Republic." "... is determined by the Bank of Mexico on bank business days based on an average of the quoted market prices for wholesale transactions on the second subsequent bank business day. "" The exchange rate that must be used today to calculate the equivalent in pesos of the amount of the payment obligations of denominated in US dollars. to be complied with in the Mexican Republic, must be the one published by the Bank of Mexico in the Official Gazette of the Federation on the previous bank business day immediately."

According to this article USDs are not legal tender in Mexico and you have to hand over the USDs the day you pay a purchase not a week later when a US bank check clears. So in conclusión you were short $17,000 pesos on your obligation. If you had handed the dealership USDs in cash then he would not have lost $17,000 pesos on your purchase.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

Zorro says he converted the dollars to pesos when he wrote the check. I guess it all depends on how he arrived at that calculation. If it was the mid-market rate for the day, then of course the dealer would not get that when he deposited the check at his bank (he would get whatever the bank's buy/sell rates were that day, which would be less than mid-market) and would be justified in asking for the difference, altho not kosher after he accepted and endorsed the check as "Payment in Full". And rather than asking Zorro to pay more after the fact and fiddling around on his calculator, before Zorro cut the check the dealer's bank should have been called to find out exactly what exchange rate they would be giving.
Personally, I pay everything in Mexico with Mexican pesos, which is the legal currency. I can't imagine a car dealer, or anyone else in the US or Canada, accepting a check written in Mexican pesos.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

surabi said:


> I can't imagine a car dealer, or anyone else in the US or Canada, accepting a check written in Mexican pesos.


That goes without saying. They do accept Mexican debit and credit cards as payment of a purchse only.

I can´t imagine the car dealership didn´t insist on an international wire transfer or a one time ATM high dollar purchase instead of accepting a US bank´s check these days.


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## LMtortugas (Aug 23, 2013)

Zorro2017 said:


> I converted the dollars to pesos and wrote out the check.


Zorro, please clarify your transaction – What currency did you negotiate and what currency was delineated on the sales agreement?? Why was the Mexican auto dealer agreeable to pricing in $ US and subjecting itself for 21 days to potential negative exchange fluctuations upon a sizable chunk of $ rather than simply collecting local currency and banking it? Why did the dealer not honor the original deal?


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

AlanMexicali said:


> That goes without saying. They do accept Mexican debit and credit cards as payment of a purchse only.
> 
> I can´t imagine the car dealership didn´t insist on an international wire transfer or a one time ATM high dollar purchase instead of accepting a US bank´s check these days.


Correction:

Not an ATM but a debit card purchase at the dealership on their debit/credit card system.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

LMtortugas said:


> Zorro, please clarify your transaction – What currency did you negotiate and what currency was delineated on the sales agreement?? Why was the Mexican auto dealer agreeable to pricing in $ US and subjecting itself for 21 days to potential negative exchange fluctuations upon a sizable chunk of $ rather than simply collecting local currency and banking it? Why did the dealer not honor the original deal?


We used the 361,600 peso price converted to dollars at the time of the sale. The dealer was agreeable because he was hungry for a sale. The sales managers office is right there visible from the showroom floor. There is a large eraser board with all of the salesmen's goals for the month and their actual sales. As of last Friday they only had four cars sold for the month, including ours. You can't even pay the overhead at that rate, the service department is carrying the entire dealership. He really wanted and needed this sale. Sales managers are under a lot of pressure to perform or be replaced.

We could have paid with our debit card but our bank said there would be a $600.00 fee as it is a percentage or an "isa" fee as is shown on my statement when we use the American card here. I passed on the $600.00 fee.

The next option was to have my daughter wire transfer the money which she was standing by to do. 

But we were walking out of the door and the sales manager did not want to lose this sale, that is when he agreed to accept a personal check. He knew that the peso fluctuates and that banks have "buy" and "sell" rates for US dollars. *He accepted the check as payment in full as was noted on the check, he endorsed it and cashed it*. I told him if he accepted a loss that was his cost of doing business, not mine, he should have called me prior to depositing the check and I would have just taken the check back. 

As I told him any lawyer could straighten this out very quickly, he made an offer of sale which I accepted, I made an offer of payment which he accepted. Some here say the memo line on the check doesn't mean squat, a check is not legal tender and so on, I'm simply telling you what happened but people like to argue. I would have been just as happy taking my money back but he had already made his move.

As I said, he tried to bump me on he price but I refused. That is when he located the other truck that was designated to be a demo for his service manager, zero miles and the same equipment.


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## Lefthanded Gordie (Aug 15, 2017)

Wow, the Hilux is getting pricey! I bought a new Tacoma in 2015 for $411,000. I just checked the dealership's internet site and a 2017 Tacoma is $596,000. That's nearly a 50% increase in 2 years!


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

Lefthanded Gordie said:


> Wow, the Hilux is getting pricey! I bought a new Tacoma in 2015 for $411,000. I just checked the dealership's internet site and a 2017 Tacoma is $596,000. That's nearly a 50% increase in 2 years!


This is my fourth Toyota and I have never been left stranded in any of them. The Tacoma rides better but costs a lot more, I can make the Hilux ride a lot better by adjusting the air pressure in the tires and loading the bed for now. Once the warranty is over I'll replace the rear leaf springs with some that are softer.

Funny thing is that Mexico does emission testing but they do not require a catalytic converter so the Hilux does not use one. Mexico does not offer the blue color and there are only two versions, the standard and the SR. The SR has aluminum 17" wheels and an AM/FM bluetooth stereo. The standard has steel wheels and no stereo.


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

So what color did you get? I had a 2004 4runner it was silver. 

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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

ElPocho said:


> So what color did you get? I had a 2004 4runner it was silver.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Never mind you posted the color while I was replying 

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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

ElPocho said:


> So what color did you get? I had a 2004 4runner it was silver.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


We were supposed to get silver but got the "Magnetic Grey" instead which is fine with me. Silver and yellow were really bad about fading in the past but I'm sure today paint has improved.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

I wonder how many kilometers will be on the odometer when you pick it up?


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

chicois8 said:


> I wonder how many kilometers will be on the odometer when you pick it up?


We looked at the truck yesterday, it is new and was transported by a truck.


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## LMtortugas (Aug 23, 2013)

Zorro2017 said:


> We looked at the truck yesterday, it is new and was transported by a truck.


ZORRO, Enjoy the new ride!


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

When I buy a truck I'm making sure el zorro Is in my side.

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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

chicois8 said:


> I wonder how many kilometers will be on the odometer when you pick it up?


It had 16, they had to go into town to get the plates. 

We brought it home this morning. If you tried to purchase insurance this week you will know why there was a delay. All of the insurance websites are jammed up with the earthquake, AXA won't even respond or it wouldn't yesterday. The ones we called "had to call CDMX" and that wasn't happening.

I'm really enjoying that new feel and it is fun shifting again. It will really be fun not feeding that big V8 or trying to maneuver that huge truck on these small streets and parking will now be a breeze.

It was an interesting experience and at least now we have a new truck. Now I just have to get the big Toyota back to the states and sell it.


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

how many gears?
how much cheaper (or expensive) is the standard vs automatic?
I guess you have the 4.0L V6?


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

ElPocho said:


> how many gears?
> how much cheaper (or expensive) is the standard vs automatic?
> I guess you have the 4.0L V6?


Mexico only offers a 2.7 ltr 5 speed or a 2.8 diesel. I actually prefer a standard as I like shifting. I learned long ago that brake pads are a lot easier and cheaper to replace that clutch linings so I don't downshift to slow down, I just use the bakes. Toyota disc brakes are very easy to change out, I went through three sets in 200,000 miles on my Tacoma. I like working on cars and miss the day I could sit under the hood on the fender wells on my 62 Chevy panel truck and replace spark plugs, rotor, cap, etc.


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

Zorro2017 said:


> Mexico only offers a 2.7 ltr 5 speed or a 2.8 diesel. I actually prefer a standard as I like shifting. I learned long ago that brake pads are a lot easier and cheaper to replace that clutch linings so I don't downshift to slow down, I just use the bakes. Toyota disc brakes are very easy to change out, I went through three sets in 200,000 miles on my Tacoma. I like working on cars and miss the day I could sit under the hood on the fender wells on my 62 Chevy panel truck and replace spark plugs, rotor, cap, etc.


I never though that rotors needed to be redone every time the odds were changed out. 
That's 70 K on each set, pretty good. 
Diesel? I have wished I could get a diesel in a mid sized here in Gringotitlan. GM had the Colorado or something like that.
Something to look forward to. What would a Hilux diesel cost? 

I got a 2007 Prius to do my exploratory trip to to Yucatan. I don't think a Narco or a Judicial would be caught dead in one. Problem is that it's meant for asphalt. 

Your big truck is downtime that might catch the wrong eye, especially if it's 4x4..

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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ElPocho said:


> Your big truck is downtime that might catch the wrong eye, especially if it's 4x4..


"downtime"?


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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

Isla Verde said:


> "downtime"?


My spell checker changes the words. I'm using a phone and the keyboard shows up the correct word. Sometimes when I move onto the next word it replaces it with a suggestion, if I don't catch it the wrong word gets inserted. I'm not typing, rather dragging my thumb over the keyboard. 
That and I should be using glasses, and I have ADHD. 



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## ElPocho (Aug 25, 2017)

Isla Verde said:


> "downtime"?


Sometimes  

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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ElPocho said:


> My spell checker changes the words. I'm using a phone and the keyboard shows up the correct word. Sometimes when I move onto the next word it replaces it with a suggestion, if I don't catch it the wrong word gets inserted. I'm not typing, rather dragging my thumb over the keyboard.
> That and I should be using glasses, and I have ADHD.
> 
> 
> ...


I hate autocorrect! My smartphone makes suggestions, but if I don't touch the suggested word, it doesn't add it to my message. I thought that "downtime" was a new slang expression I'd never heard of.


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