# ESTA and visa advice



## confused.couk (Sep 18, 2013)

It seems I have fallen fowl of the badly worded part of the ESTA which states

"Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude"

Well, not knowing what "moral turpitude" is I consulted a U.S. immigration lawyer within the USA. I Told her what my conviction was and left it with her. Had an email back a few hours later telling me that my conviction was NOT classed as "moral turpitude" and that I can honestly answer no to that question which I did.
I got my ESTA and off I went. Came home and went again. Now at this point I should point out that I am married to an American. 
I have been researching going and living in the states and today I was told by the Embassy in London that I should have declared ALL and ANY convictions and that by not doing so I have fraudulently entered the USA and that may preclude me from ANY future visits to the USA.

Apparently I now have to consult a lawyer and get them to sort this out!
I have been told I need to get a "police certificate" detailing ALL and ANY convictions and make an appointment to attend the Embassy to sort this mess out.

My point is that this says exactly as it reads "INVOLVING" and yet the Americans say "that might be what it says but it is not what it means"

I spoke to the criminal records bureau and started to explain what I needed and as soon as I mention USA, ESTA and criminal record the police officer interrupted and said "have you fallen fowl of the involving moral turpitude law"? How do you know that I asked- Because we get several HUNDRED requests for the same certificate from others that have done the same EVERY YEAR
He went on to explain the association of chief police officers have spoken and written to the embassy and explained the problem but the embassy will not change the wording which everyone finds misleading including the UK authorities.

Has anyone else fallen into this "trap" (if that is the right word), what did you do about it and what was the result??
Regards
Confused and stuck on this island


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

A US embassy does not make immigration policy and splitting hair does not get you anywhere.

Here is some information http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86942.pdf
Get your documentation and apply for waiver.


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

I find some of your coment not as it really.... is
all immigrant and tourist visa require a police report 

http://www.acro.police.uk/police_certificates.aspx

you carefully omitted you crime....

if you are married to s US citizen youwont get a B-2

london based Aila Lawyer

US Immigration & US Visa Lawyer London: Expert Green Card and & Visa Services


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## confused.couk (Sep 18, 2013)

twostep said:


> A US embassy does not make immigration policy and splitting hair does not get you anywhere.


It is not splitting hairs INVOLVING and INCLUDING mean two completely separate things. 




Davis1 said:


> I find some of your coment not as it really.... is
> all immigrant and tourist visa require a police report
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input but unfortunately you are wrong
An ESTA does NOT require a police check OR any checks what so ever. 
I did not as you put it "carefully omitted you crime" The crime does NOT involve moral turpitude and therefore according to the wording of the question did not need to be put down in the answer.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

confused.couk said:


> It is not splitting hairs INVOLVING and INCLUDING mean two completely separate things. .


The bottom line is you have to deal with it. If you worked with a reputable attorney when you originally inquired about your crime you and her will have records of her findings and what it was based upon. 






confused.couk said:


> Thanks for your input but unfortunately you are wrong
> An ESTA does NOT require a police check OR any checks what so ever.
> I did not as you put it "carefully omitted you crime" The crime does NOT involve moral turpitude and therefore according to the wording of the question did not need to be put down in the answer.


Neither of you is correct - not all visas require a police report and ESTA is not a visa.


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## confused.couk (Sep 18, 2013)

that's just it two step- I went in on an esta which as you say is NOT a visa- its a visa waiver, so didn't use a solicitor other than to ask what moral turpitude was


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

confused.couk said:


> It
> 
> 
> 
> ...



anh ESTA is not a visa ....


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

The document linked above is helpful, so review that. Before anyone jumps to conclusions there are two possibilities:

1. You were advised correctly, and you'll resolve the problem once you produce the necessary criminal background check and (gently, politely) point to the U.S. State Department's own definitions.

2. You received bad advice. In that case ask your attorney for a "mea culpa" letter, notarized. The attorney won't be happy about that, but there are ways to write such a letter ("...upon further review..."). Inform the embassy that you relied on your attorney's advice, submit the letter, and see what happens.

That's all you can do, I think. Best of luck.


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