# Fears of moving to SA.



## Deuville (May 9, 2010)

I'm originally from Lithuania (eastern Europe) but residing in Ireland for the last 7 years. My boyfriend is from South Africa and he wants to move back home. I'm very tempted to move with him as it's such a beautiful country, however, browsing through this forum I kinda got scarred... I'm not so afraid to be discriminated against as a white person (I'm well used to be discriminated against as eastern european in Ireland  (as well as I got hold up at a gunpoint at work during robbery in Ireland for a flippin 150 euro ) 
... the thing is, I'm just probably looking for some reassurance, that it is not all that bad as people are saying on here... or am I being naive? 
p.s. the place my boyfriend is from is called Fish Hoek, his family still lives there, so we'd be living there as well.. He's taken few of his irish friends over there for 3 weeks holiday, and they all came back safe and sound and well impressed of the country  

would be grateful for any response from people living in SA (especially the positive ones  
Thanx


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## Deuville (May 9, 2010)

22 views and no replies?! I'm really freaking out here! it can't be that bad....


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

Deuville,

I am probably considered one of the "negative traitorous" South Africans but I will give you the following based on fact not opinion...

Fish Hoek is a nice place and a safe area as far as things go.
No you probably won't be abducted / murdered / raped / mugged / assaulted either as you get off the plane or in your time living in Fish Hoek. The simple fact is that if you live in other areas such as Gauteng and several of the bigger cities THERE IS A HIGHER PROBABILITY that that it will happen. No-one can argue, and remain credible, that crime is not a problem but that does not mean you are going to be victim.

My worry is for the future and the future of my kids on the african continent...


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## Saffiechic83 (May 6, 2010)

Well I am a Saffie, who has lived in London and am currently living happily in Dubai and honestly do not plan on returning to SA to live. I do the yearly visits to the family, but also only because they live an hour outside of the city (Cape Town). Don't get me wrong, I love my country - but I'm not going to lie to you about the crime. When I mention being from SA to people I've only just met, the first thing they ask is: 'Is it true that when it gets dark, women are allowed to run a red light?'

It's sad that this is the perception, but it's also the truth. We have a really beautiful country with so much possibility, but the crime does bring that down. And when you think of how corruption starts from the leaders? It's no wonder that the common man could care less. 

I hear stories everyday from home and it's scary. I would love for my future kids to grow up in a safe and comfortable environment, I guess it just won't be in SA.


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## jvm (Feb 18, 2009)

*Just go*

Labas. Lots of people live here and love it, despite the real need to be cautious and aware of surroundings much more than in Europe. Just go and see how it works out. Mind the sharks at Fishhoek.


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## Deuville (May 9, 2010)

jvm said:


> Labas. Lots of people live here and love it, despite the real need to be cautious and aware of surroundings much more than in Europe. Just go and see how it works out. Mind the sharks at Fishhoek.


Hoi! thanks for reply and hello in Lithuanian  I think i will give it a go and see how it works out for me. How long are you living in SA? and which part?


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## Deuville (May 9, 2010)

Thanks for your replies, guys. Really appreciate it. I think I might just have to give it a shot and see it all for myself. The thing that most of you think that SA is not safe enough to rear kids in is scearing a s**t out of me (tho since I've none yet and not planning to have any for another couple years, it gives me some time to check the situation in your country and make up my mind) 
...after-all, I can always go back to my own country where one can get stabbed to death for not providing a cigarette... ( trying to be all optimistic here  
Thanks again for your replies!


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## mman (Nov 15, 2009)

Go to South Africa, be sensible and you will love it. Plus if you're going with you're saffa boyfriend i can see few problems, Fishhoek is safe.


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## RenVilo (Mar 18, 2010)

I wouldn't. Your lifestyle is better where you except if you b-friend has a rich dad 

Work in SA is hard to get (to get something worth working 8 hours a day)

People get murdered for a cellphone or because they were owed R60.

Fishhoek is in cape town. I worked there for 3 years. I was mugged 2 times and almost killed the one time just for my wallet that only had plastic in and around R20 in change.

For safety reasons.. Never move here. But come on a holiday and just keep an eye open. 

That's my opinion. That's why I (and a lot of people) want to move


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## DannyBoy (Apr 29, 2009)

*Other problems besides CRIME*



Deuville said:


> 22 views and no replies?! I'm really freaking out here! it can't be that bad....


I just returned to the U.S after spending a full month in Cape Town.
Yes, Fish Hoek is relatively safe, but the area in the main road has gone downhill fast since I was last there.
It seemed kinda dirty by the station and there was a lot of Hobo's hanging around stinking the place up and begging.

What bugged me the most is how every comment by the ANC, every news item in the newspaper is used to Target the fact that WHITES are still "in Charge" of the Economy.

The resentment by the ruling ANC towards the white population was not only scary, but pretty depressing. In the U.S there would be one hell of a lawsuit against that kind of discrimination, but in S.A you can't say nothing.
Malema was shooting his mouth off when I was there. Eugeen Terblanche got murdered. A beautiful Pretoria school girl named Anika Smit, got murdered and her hands chopped off. There were strikes for 2 weeks by the people who were supposed to collect the garbage (dirtbins). 
It really got me down. 
Amazingly my sister and her husband and my Mom, were not even aware that this stuff was going on. They didn't watch the news or Carte Blanche. Didn't read the newspaper.

The standard of living has gone way,......way down. The middle class are getting poorer by the day, but they just don't see it.
I'm so happy I'm back in America. You have no idea.


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## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

RenVilo said:


> I wouldn't. Your lifestyle is better where you except if you b-friend has a rich dad
> 
> Work in SA is hard to get (to get something worth working 8 hours a day)
> 
> ...


Could you give me the year when you were mugged and almost killed ?


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## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

Deuville said:


> I'm originally from Lithuania (eastern Europe) but residing in Ireland for the last 7 years. My boyfriend is from South Africa and he wants to move back home. I'm very tempted to move with him as it's such a beautiful country, however, browsing through this forum I kinda got scarred... I'm not so afraid to be discriminated against as a white person (I'm well used to be discriminated against as eastern european in Ireland  (as well as I got hold up at a gunpoint at work during robbery in Ireland for a flippin 150 euro )
> ... the thing is, I'm just probably looking for some reassurance, that it is not all that bad as people are saying on here... or am I being naive?
> p.s. the place my boyfriend is from is called Fish Hoek, his family still lives there, so we'd be living there as well.. He's taken few of his irish friends over there for 3 weeks holiday, and they all came back safe and sound and well impressed of the country
> 
> ...


Don't worry, just be careful, and enjoy the friendly people.

Situation Cape Town and Western Cape improves both politically and economically. And I have plenty of statements and reports backing that.
Off course there are some issues. Crime is one of them. Some areas are to be avoided. But on the whole Cape Town is good. Plenty of expats and foreigners settle each year in and around Cape Town. That is meaningful.

I have plenty of contacts that can help you, with relevant informations. Please let me know and don't hesitate to send me a Private Message.

Last but not least : don't listen to those telling they are mugged twice a day. Stick to the official reports and South African newspapers. I also left my country of birth and as those wasting their time, I bashed my country in order to proove I made the right choice. But know I have grown old and I look forward.

Good luck !


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## RenVilo (Mar 18, 2010)

@DannyBoy - Yea I know what you are talking about. And that's why I want to leave. I'll start from the lowest position available and work myself up but I just can't get a sponsorship from someone. Can I ask you (actually everyone overseas) to please just keep me in mind when they see a position that will have sponsorship. I don't really care what it is in the beginning. I can settle for a better job later on. Just to get started is the issue.

tx


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

arnaud said:


> Could you give me the year when you were mugged and almost killed ?


Why?


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## RenVilo (Mar 18, 2010)

arnaud said:


> Could you give me the year when you were mugged and almost killed ?


It was in 2007. I think it's in Long street (That's the one street that a once way from the N1 side towards Table mountain.

But yea don't know WHY you want to know this


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

arnaud said:


> Last but not least : don't listen to those telling they are mugged twice a day. Stick to the official reports and South African newspapers. I also left my country of birth and as those wasting their time, I bashed my country in order to proove I made the right choice. But know I have grown old and I look forward.
> 
> Good luck !


Translation

I'm an Afrikaner who went on a two year working holiday and just couldn't get an English girl to marry me so I though, what can I do in SA that won't be affected by BEE/AA - Aaaa yes, start a small business, perhaps tourism where I can get poor SOB's to spend their hard earned money in SA and if I can get a cut, all the better.

Baie Dankie.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Yes, I suggest you stick tothe sa newspapers too.
News24, South Africa's premier news source, provides breaking news on national, world, Africa, sport, entertainment, technology & more. and IOL: News for South Africa and the World 
You will find that you are then better read about crime happening in SA than most of te resident South Africans.
The Crime stats are on te SA Police services website at Crime Statistics | Per Category and Crime Statistics | Western Cape


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Yes, I suggest you stick tothe sa newspapers too.
News24, South Africa's premier news source, provides breaking news on national, world, Africa, sport, entertainment, technology & more. and IOL: News for South Africa and the World 
You will find that you are then better read about crime happening in SA than most of te resident South Africans.
The Crime stats are on te SA Police services website at Crime Statistics | Per Category and Crime Statistics | Western Cape

unfortunately, not all crimes get reported, when I was mugged by 4 guys with a knife at my throat in Johannesburg in the midst of a lunchtime crowded busy street, I did not even bother to report it, they got a cheap watch as well as my wallet which had very little money in it as I knew enough t be careful.


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## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

RenVilo said:


> It was in 2007. I think it's in Long street (That's the one street that a once way from the N1 side towards Table mountain.
> 
> But yea don't know WHY you want to know this


Long Street at FishHoek ????


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## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

Daxk said:


> Yes, I suggest you stick tothe sa newspapers too.
> News24, South Africa's premier news source, provides breaking news on national, world, Africa, sport, entertainment, technology & more. and IOL: News for South Africa and the World
> You will find that you are then better read about crime happening in SA than most of te resident South Africans.
> The Crime stats are on te SA Police services website at Crime Statistics | Per Category and Crime Statistics | Western Cape
> ...


As I said earlier, South Africa has issues, crime is part of them.
But when you look at these crime stats (thanks for the link), some areas are not crime-free but near western standards.

Off course, nobody claims you won't be affected by crime in South Africa. However I won't neither listen to bitter expats nor HCR for such a choice. My advice would be to go and stay 3 months, look around and then choose what suits the most.

Hope it helps


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

But the problem is that you cannot ACT as if you are living in a Country with Western Standards.

most of the freedoms you have in countries with western standards would expose you to more
danger than if you were living in a country with Western Standards.

small freedoms, like going for walks or catching public transport or walking home late at night,
leaving a door or window open, leaving your child in a car while you quickly pop into the shop for some milk...
and thats the problems with discussions such as these, those who have been there know what you can and cannot do,(and that does not always help, either,) those who haven't merely accept that if the crime levels are similar to Western Standards, they can act as if they ARE in a Country with Western Standards.
Not so?


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## DannyBoy (Apr 29, 2009)

*Overseas Jobs*



RenVilo said:


> @DannyBoy - Yea I know what you are talking about. And that's why I want to leave. I'll start from the lowest position available and work myself up but I just can't get a sponsorship from someone. Can I ask you (actually everyone overseas) to please just keep me in mind when they see a position that will have sponsorship. I don't really care what it is in the beginning. I can settle for a better job later on. Just to get started is the issue.
> 
> tx


Renvilo,

Right now is the worst possible time to look for jobs overseas. I have been out of work for the last three months in the U.S.
I actually went back to S.A for one month to look for a job. But the disinterest shown by the recruiters, the unprofessionalism as well as my really looking carefully at the living situation (environment in Cape Town) going on there (increased "Africanization" and embracing of third world values) was a real eye opener.
I don't care what Arnaud says. I went there and physically saw what was going on with my own eyes.
I have two little nieces there Ayla (3 years old) and Caragh (18 months). And there is no chance of a future for those two little souls in that country.

What industry do you work in?
Do you have academic qualifications?

For I.T you could look on the ACCENTURE.COM website for U.S jobs, or go into DICE.COM or MONSTER.COM. 
Not sure what advice to give you. I can only say that if you have a job ANYWHERE in the world right now, then count yourself lucky and do everything in your power to keep that job.

10 million people are out of work in the U.S right now. 
2 million got laid off (retrenched) in the last 18 months.
I have been struggling to stay employed and have managed to just hang on by my fingernails by being willing to relocate anywhere in the U.S for short assignments.
It's like being a migrant worker.

Wish I could give you more help and better news. But things are pretty grim jobwise right now.


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## Deuville (May 9, 2010)

arnaud said:


> As I said earlier, South Africa has issues, crime is part of them.
> But when you look at these crime stats (thanks for the link), some areas are not crime-free but near western standards.
> 
> Off course, nobody claims you won't be affected by crime in South Africa. However I won't neither listen to bitter expats nor HCR for such a choice. My advice would be to go and stay 3 months, look around and then choose what suits the most.
> ...


It does help  Thanks Arnaud. 
The plan is to go on holidays to sa first, then move over there for a year or so and see what happens


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## Deuville (May 9, 2010)

Daxk said:


> Yes, I suggest you stick tothe sa newspapers too.
> News24, South Africa's premier news source, provides breaking news on national, world, Africa, sport, entertainment, technology & more. and IOL: News for South Africa and the World
> You will find that you are then better read about crime happening in SA than most of te resident South Africans.
> The Crime stats are on te SA Police services website at Crime Statistics | Per Category and Crime Statistics | Western Cape


Thanx for the links Daxk


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## Suki (Jan 23, 2008)

Deuville said:


> The plan is to go on holidays to sa first, then move over there for a year or so and see what happens


The area around Fishhoek is breath-takingly beautiful and a holiday over there during their summer will convince you to pack your bags sooner than later. It is relatively safe if you are sensible and the BF and family will teach you soon enough what to do and not to do. If you are young a few years in the Cape Town area will be a great experience. Just make sure you are aware of the visa and employment situation and make sure you have enough funds to get yourself settled back in Ireland and or UK when you feel the time has come to leave. You dont want to get into a situation, where you want to leave but cant afford it to.


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

Don't listen to the nay sayers. Fish Hoek is charming. Cape Town is amazing. I am a Canadian expat and I love living in SA. You won't regret it.
here is my blog about living here- a lot of the articles are about fear and crime in SA. I get a lot of negative feedback from SAers, but most expats love it:

h t t p : / / d i r u s s e l l . c o m


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## Deuville (May 9, 2010)

dirussell said:


> Don't listen to the nay sayers. Fish Hoek is charming. Cape Town is amazing. I am a Canadian expat and I love living in SA. You won't regret it.
> here is my blog about living here- a lot of the articles are about fear and crime in SA. I get a lot of negative feedback from SAers, but most expats love it:
> 
> h t t p : / / d i r u s s e l l . c o m


thanx for ur reply.it is always nice to hear positive things from people who live over there.
checked ur blog ..... all good and interesting !!!
my dad's dream was to move to Vancouver


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

Deuville said:


> thanx for ur reply.it is always nice to hear positive things from people who live over there.
> checked ur blog ..... all good and interesting !!!
> my dad's dream was to move to Vancouver


thanks! i actually don't hate vancouver - was just trying to show SAers that their country is pretty special if they would only open their eyes!

here is a follow-up article a journalist wrote about my article on a canadian website:

Canada Sucks? Or Was That Just Vancouver? The Canoe Dossier


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

dirussell said:


> Don't listen to the nay sayers. Fish Hoek is charming. Cape Town is amazing. I am a Canadian expat and I love living in SA. You won't regret it.
> here is my blog about living here- a lot of the articles are about fear and crime in SA. I get a lot of negative feedback from SAers, but most expats love it:
> 
> h t t p : / / d i r u s s e l l . c o m


Nice Blog..... (links etc, you do have a lot of time to blog )

I don't think its negative, its just that most of us that have actually lived there, experienced crime and understand the African way of life and know what the reality is. 

My Parents are visiting me for a few weeks and they have never slept better.....
My Dads words were something like "When I sleep here and hear a noise, I know its just the Neighbour leaving for work or a Possum in a tree"

He also lives in Cape Town in one of the best area's with Panic buttons, Alarms, external intrusion detection and armed response.

We walked on a beach and he says he can't do that any-more as an older person.... Its quite sad to see what's become of a place he once could roam freely.

Your idealism is commendable but a little misguided....


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

Halo said:


> Nice Blog..... (links etc, you do have a lot of time to blog )
> 
> I don't think its negative, its just that most of us that have actually lived there, experienced crime and understand the African way of life and know what the reality is.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your comment but I have a different experience. My partner is South African and he feels the same way I do... so do all of his friends and family. There is a very large and evergrowing network of SA-positive people here who are working very hard to change things - things meaning perception of crime and danger. There is also a very large group of expats here who are doing a lot of volunteer work with NGOs. many of them have lived here for over 5 years. They also feel the same - if they didn't, they would all leave the country due to fear. I think that life is what you think it is...we create our own reality by believing what we think. Therefore, I say we should choose our thoughts carefully.


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

dirussell said:


> I appreciate your comment but I have a different experience. My partner is South African and he feels the same way I do... so do all of his friends and family. There is a very large and evergrowing network of SA-positive people here who are working very hard to change things - things meaning perception of crime and danger. There is also a very large group of expats here who are doing a lot of volunteer work with NGOs. many of them have lived here for over 5 years. They also feel the same - if they didn't, they would all leave the country due to fear. I think that life is what you think it is...we create our own reality by believing what we think. Therefore, I say we should choose our thoughts carefully.


by the way, why doesnt he walk on the beach??? everyone does, all day long! women, kids, grannies...i hope he comes to terms with this because he is missing out on a lot of beauty. i walk the beach every single day. i live in mouille point and walk to bantry bay and back every morning. sometimes with my partner, sometimes alone. our friends do too.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

dirussell said:


> I appreciate your comment but I have a different experience. My partner is South African and he feels the same way I do... so do all of his friends and family. There is a very large and evergrowing network of SA-positive people here who are working very hard to change things - things meaning perception of crime and danger. There is also a very large group of expats here who are doing a lot of volunteer work with NGOs. many of them have lived here for over 5 years. They also feel the same - if they didn't, they would all leave the country due to fear. I think that life is what you think it is...we create our own reality by believing what we think. Therefore, I say we should choose our thoughts carefully.


IYHO... The facts don't resipricate unfortunatley.... 

As stated before by another poster, you have your ticket out if required so your mindset will be different. I pray nothing happens to you but if it does and you see the hate/violence you will be on your bike as it were.

I also question bringing children up in that environment.

Once again your statements are idealistic..... thinking something does not bring it to fruition.


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

Halo said:


> IYHO... The facts don't resipricate unfortunatley....
> 
> As stated before by another poster, you have your ticket out if required so your mindset will be different. I pray nothing happens to you but if it does and you see the hate/violence you will be on your bike as it were.
> 
> ...


not sure what facts you are referring to. it is a fact that my south african partner, his south african friends and south african do not buy into the fear-mongering and they all live happy, free lives here, kids included. we have a large social circle that includes a number of networking groups that are all like-minded. that is a fact. that is our reality. maybe other people have different realities, but you cannot say that my life is not real. i appreciate the concern. but to be honest, i'd rather die a violent death than live a long, slow soul death due to fear.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

"i'd rather die a violent death than live a long, slow soul death due to fear. "

That tells me you actually dont have a clue.


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

Daxk said:


> "i'd rather die a violent death than live a long, slow soul death due to fear. "
> 
> That tells me you actually dont have a clue.


again, why are you trying to tell me how i feel and what i think? my preferences are not yours. i dont tell you how to feel. i have been robbed and assaulted in safe little CANADA. you think i have not experienced trauma? why do you presume to know so much about me? my partner's sister was hijacked in joburg.. she still goes out, has fun, and does not live in fear. if she did, it would mean that she allowed her assaulters to win - to win by hurting both her mind and her body. she chooses to disallow them to win her mind. she chooses no fear.

I do have a clue - about me, my life, and my experience. and that is all you have too - a clue about your life, not anyone else's. are you god? are you all-knowing? i think not...

you dont even live here. you are basing your opinions on other's experiences. why dont you come back and get some experience in the present? it is very different here now that it was even one year ago. a lot has changed. i dare you to come back so you can give a real opinion, not an outdated one that doesnt even come from your own personal up-to-date experience. i double dare you.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Daxk said:


> "i'd rather die a violent death than live a long, slow soul death due to fear. "
> 
> That tells me you actually dont have a clue.


Ditto....


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## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

dirussell said:


> again, why are you trying to tell me how i feel and what i think? my preferences are not yours. i dont tell you how to feel. i have been robbed and assaulted in safe little CANADA. you think i have not experienced trauma? why do you presume to know so much about me? my partner's sister was hijacked in joburg.. she still goes out, has fun, and does not live in fear. if she did, it would mean that she allowed her assaulters to win - to win by hurting both her mind and her body. she chooses to disallow them to win her mind. she chooses no fear.
> 
> I do have a clue - about me, my life, and my experience. and that is all you have too - a clue about your life, not anyone else's. are you god? are you all-knowing? i think not...
> 
> you dont even live here. you are basing your opinions on other's experiences. why dont you come back and get some experience in the present? it is very different here now that it was even one year ago. a lot has changed. i dare you to come back so you can give a real opinion, not an outdated one that doesnt even come from your own personal up-to-date experience. i double dare you.


Well said !

(Btw, Very nice blog)


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

Halo said:


> Ditto....


ditto???

Ditto to what? did you even read what i said? ditto doesn't apply here.

again, until you are living here yourself, like i am , you have no business commenting. you are from the uk, living in aus....and you are trying to tell people about what it is like living in sa now?? 

why don't you write about aus...at least you would be credible.


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

arnaud said:


> Well said !
> 
> (Btw, Very nice blog)


thanks! i'm getting used to these ridiculous, illogical arguments from my blog. simply cannot fathom why some people choose to be ruled by paranoia, and why they choose to dump their unhappiness on others.


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## AngeliqueH (May 21, 2010)

RenVilo said:


> I wouldn't. Your lifestyle is better where you except if you b-friend has a rich dad
> 
> Work in SA is hard to get (to get something worth working 8 hours a day)
> 
> ...


Hi Renvilo its Ange from PH 

People think its exhagerated but to give you an idea. We ran a poll on a popular website on rape in SA, one of the questions was do you know any one that was raped (family or close friends) or have you ever been raped. After the poll was finished it worked out to just over 75% of people knew someone.

In the last six months that I was in SA (keep in mind I have been in NZ for 4 weeks) we were had two burgalries, my step daughter was raped, my boss was assulted (her face was rearranged with a steel pipe she now requires reconstructive surgery) in her home, a good friend off mine was also put into hospital (in icu for extensive internal injuries) after a robbery and my nanny's son was forced to watch two of his friends get raped. Six months. 

My longer history in SA just for myself includes being raped and highjacked 4 times once with a knife and 3 times with firearms - here is the best part you know what most South Africans will say after a rape, assult, highjacking, at least you still alive...

You don't understand it until you live there, you can't understand the brutality and cruelty of the crimes within SA, until you live there.


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## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

AngeliqueH said:


> Hi Renvilo its Ange from PH
> 
> People think its exhagerated but to give you an idea. We ran a poll on a popular website on rape in SA, one of the questions was do you know any one that was raped (family or close friends) or have you ever been raped. After the poll was finished it worked out to just over 75% of people knew someone.
> 
> ...


Yet another new member coming from nowhere telling horror stories on SA.

It's really boring. Could you please give us a proof of your horror stories.

I pointed out that Renvilo was a liar and a fake. Please read above : he was twice mugged at Fishoek on Long Street. Did not you see anything wrong ?

Anyway, this is laughable and people like you only convince more people to settle in South Africa.

But I wonder why you are wasting your time for fear-mongering. May be your life in NZ is boring, that's why you like trolling on forum like that.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

dirussell said:


> thanks! i'm getting used to these ridiculous, illogical arguments from my blog. simply cannot fathom why some people choose to be ruled by paranoia, and why they choose to dump their unhappiness on others.


I think there is a lot more you are unable to fathom.... its early days in SA, you'll get there.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

arnaud said:


> Yet another new member coming from nowhere telling horror stories on SA.
> 
> It's really boring. Could you please give us a proof of your horror stories.
> 
> ...


Not you again..... This forum is for over 12's


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

Halo said:


> I think there is a lot more you are unable to fathom.... its early days in SA, you'll get there.


and what about my SA partner. what about his SA friends. what about his SA family. what about all the expats i know who have been living and working and volunteering here for 10 years? are you discounting their experiences too? these people love it here. it's not early days for them. what is your problem???


----------



## AngeliqueH (May 21, 2010)

arnaud said:


> Yet another new member coming from nowhere telling horror stories on SA.
> 
> It's really boring. Could you please give us a proof of your horror stories.
> 
> ...


You make me lol. Ren is lying because you couldn't find the street on the map? ROTFLMAO

Seriously you are welcome to my rape report with photos, I will be happy to pass on the details of the police stations where I reported my crimes to with case numbers if you like, I can show you the insurance claims and hospitals claims with the assults. I doubt you would enjoy them though it might just break your bubble.

Oh btw for being bored in NZ try reading hun, I have been there for 4 weeks. 

I don't care if you think I am a liar or I am fear mongering, what I do know is that every woman going to SA be aware that rape is a real factor and if you going to live there know damn well how to protect yourself because it happens and it doesn't matter what your colour, creed or class is.


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

AngeliqueH said:


> You make me lol. Ren is lying because you couldn't find the street on the map? ROTFLMAO
> 
> Seriously you are welcome to my rape report with photos, I will be happy to pass on the details of the police stations where I reported my crimes to with case numbers if you like, I can show you the insurance claims and hospitals claims with the assults. I doubt you would enjoy them though it might just break your bubble.
> 
> ...


u think women all over the world don't get raped?? many are raped by their domestic partners, boyfriends, fathers, brothers, uncles, uncles, strangers...every single day. i am sorry you were raped, but i was assaulted too, but that does not mean that i will hide forever. that means the rapist gets more than your body - he gets your mind too. i won't allow that. i sorry he got your mind...but you have allowed him to win.


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

dirussell said:


> and what about my SA partner. what about his SA friends. what about his SA family. what about all the expats i know who have been living and working and volunteering here for 10 years? are you discounting their experiences too? these people love it here. it's not early days for them. what is your problem???


The word of the day : Anecdotal

Stick to the statistics....


----------



## Halo (May 8, 2008)

dirussell said:


> u think women all over the world don't get raped?? many are raped by their domestic partners, boyfriends, fathers, brothers, uncles, uncles, strangers...every single day. i am sorry you were raped, but i was assaulted too, but that does not mean that i will hide forever. that means the rapist gets more than your body - he gets your mind too. i won't allow that. i sorry he got your mind...but you have allowed him to win.


***Drum roll*** --- "you win" Dumbest argument of the day award.


----------



## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

Halo said:


> The word of the day : Anecdotal
> 
> Stick to the statistics....


after you have taken a graduate course in criminology that focuses on crtitical media research analysis, i'll talk stats with you. then i know i will be having a talk with someone who knows what they are talking about. are you foolish enough to believe the interpretations of 'stats' that you read in newspapers?? how naive. media is politically and economically motivated. there are economic reasons for misinterpreting crime stats and keeping people afraid. like maybe the fact that if SA media started reporting the true crime rate - which is actually much much lower now - the security industry in SA (which is the second largest industry in SA) would crumble, leaving thousands jobless and unable to contribute to the economy. 

i'm a criminologist, so feel free to throw your little newspaper stats my way- I'll eat them for dinner. 

and please tell your poor father that he does not need to live like a little rat in a hole anymore. do you want his last years to be full of unjustified fear while the rest of the world wakes up and is out enjoying the sun?

think about it. you are uninformed, misinformed, and scared of your own shadow. find some balls, do some proper research, and don't let the media (who only want money) to ruin your father's life. your choice.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

dirussell said:


> after you have taken a graduate course in criminology that focuses on crtitical media research analysis, i'll talk stats with you. then i know i will be having a talk with someone who knows what they are talking about. are you foolish enough to believe the interpretations of 'stats' that you read in newspapers?? how naive. media is politically and economically motivated. there are economic reasons for misinterpreting crime stats and keeping people afraid. like maybe the fact that if SA media started reporting the true crime rate - which is actually much much lower now - the security industry in SA (which is the second largest industry in SA) would crumble, leaving thousands jobless and unable to contribute to the economy.
> 
> i'm a criminologist, so feel free to throw your little newspaper stats my way- I'll eat them for dinner.
> 
> ...


Are you for real?


----------



## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

Halo said:


> Are you for real?


um, yeah, want to see my crim degree?


----------



## AngeliqueH (May 21, 2010)

dirussell said:


> u think women all over the world don't get raped?? many are raped by their domestic partners, boyfriends, fathers, brothers, uncles, uncles, strangers...every single day. i am sorry you were raped, but i was assaulted too, but that does not mean that i will hide forever. that means the rapist gets more than your body - he gets your mind too. i won't allow that. i sorry he got your mind...but you have allowed him to win.


You presume too much. I was raped quite a few years ago, I didn't leave because of that. Actually I still love SA I think its a beautiful country, currently it just happens to have a very corrupt goverment and a crime rate that rivals a country at war. If I were only thinking of myself I would never of had the guts to leave, but I have two young boys and the more I look at their future the more I believe I would be a really bad mother that if I did not try and give them a safer enviroment with more opportunies.

There is a Zapiro cartoon run a while ago where a teacher asks children what they would like to be when they grow up and a little boy with his hand in the replies - Alive!


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

dirussell said:


> um, yeah, want to see my crim degree?


No.... I want to understand why you can't see the obvious.... Why you are blind to the hate that exists in South Africa...... The thousands of farmers who have been brutally murdered.

The unemployment rate is at its highest level ever.... Crime/Aids/Violence is at record levels.

As I have stated before, your idealism is commendable yet misguided.


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

Halo said:


> No.... I want to understand why you can't see the obvious.... Why you are blind to the hate that exists in South Africa...... The thousands of farmers who have been brutally murdered.
> 
> The unemployment rate is at its highest level ever.... Crime/Aids/Violence is at record levels.
> 
> As I have stated before, your idealism is commendable yet misguided.


and why are you blind to the love, the passion, the excitement, the vitality of this place. yes, people are murdered. ever look the murder rates in the US, the so-called king of the world? hate exists everywhere. especially inside you.


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## AngeliqueH (May 21, 2010)

The passion, the excitement and vitality that comes from adrenalin living in a place where death is a real possiblity everyday?

PS Murders per Capita

South Africa: 0.496008 per 1,000 people
United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people

See the difference?


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

dirussell said:


> and why are you blind to the love, the passion, the excitement, the vitality of this place. yes, people are murdered. ever look the murder rates in the US, the so-called king of the world? hate exists everywhere. especially inside you.


You are trying to measure something that's unmeasurable... I look at the broken families... the killings ---> Things that can be measured -----> Things that affect peoples lives.

Yes, and?


----------



## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

AngeliqueH said:


> The passion, the excitement and vitality that comes from adrenalin living in a place where death is a real possiblity everyday?
> 
> PS Murders per Capita
> 
> ...


Fear of Death – Good Reason to Hide From Life? | Yeah, but…


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

You say I should write about the reality of SA, that I should be afraid for my life here, that I will die for my foolishness.

Yeah, maybe it is dangerous here but people die terrible deaths every day, in every country. For example, by getting in a car, you are endangering your life. I worked in auto insurance claims, and I’ve seen images of more horrific accident scenes than I care to describe – but I will.

I’ve seen babies whose necks snapped in half and bodies were sliced to bits as they sailed through the windshield because a parent decided not to put the baby in a child seat. I’ve seen horribly mutilated bodies because someone decided to drive instead of walk to the store. Simply by getting in a car, you invite death. Or paralysis, or mutilation. Or catastrophic head injury.

Does this mean you won’t get in a car?? Does this mean you will write terrible things at people who blog about their favorite cars? That all Mustang lovers are superficial assh***s who deserve to be stomped on? According to your theory that I should not be writing positive things about SA, you should be angry with those people who write for car magazines for not telling the truth, for not telling everyone that cars are actually death machines. 

Do you let your children drive a car? Do you let your teenagers get into a death machine? How irresponsible of you. Your parenting license should be taken away from you. Don’t you know the statistics on how many young people die/get paralyzed/have head injuries from cars? How many accident scenes have you to been to? How many morgues have you visited to look at dead teenagers? But yet you let your kids drive. SHAME. You should be berating car magazines and commercials. You should never get in a car again. You should give up your driver’s license. Go on. I dare you. Give it up.

Or how about police officers? I worked with officers every day when investigating accidents and while working in customs. Do you think that because they could potentially be shot and killed every day, they should be writing terrible things about their jobs, telling young people that policing is a terrible job? Should the officers who attend university career recruitment fairs be scorned for not telling the truth? Many of the officers I know LOVE their jobs, in spite of and because of the danger. Not every one runs from danger – some people actually thrive in it.

Nick, we are all going to die. Some people simply worry about death more than others. Some, like Buddhists, see death as simply the next phase and it does not worry them at all. Christians should not fear death either (remember, God commands people to fear nothing but Him), since heaven awaits.

Some people prefer to worry their entire lives (which to me is like a living death). Others choose to say “f*** it” and do the things in life that they love to do. I have travelled all over the world. I have been mugged and robbed and assaulted. But that does not stop me from living. As long as I’m alive, I will LIVE, and for me, living means experiencing life in its totality. Including things that are risky.

Do you smoke? Do you drink? If so, you have more chances of dying from that than you do from being shot. Do you hang out with smokers? Do you use non-organic household cleaners? Do you breathe polluted air? Do you eat junk food with trans fats? 

We ALL die; maybe you have a giant cancerous tumour in your brain right now which makes you speak in such hateful language – maybe you won’t wake up tomorrow. Or maybe you’ll have a heart attack due to all the hateful energy you carry in your body. Or maybe you’ll choke on a carrot while you are pontificating at positive people. More people die of heart attacks than gun shots, my friend.

I am very curious about how you plan to avoid death. Last I heard, people die in Australia, and Canada, and England, and South Africa, every single day. Babies, old people, middle-aged moms…everyone dies, and no one can control it, not even you.

If you really believe that I would be irresponsible for bringing children to this country due to the danger, then I turn to you and say the same. Australia has the highest rates of skin cancer in the world. Why would you take your children to a country where the death rate is so high? How could you expose them to such high risks of melanoma? You should be fed to the wolves for writing about how safe Australia is when you know that it is a death oven. SHAME. (hopefully you can get the sarcasm...)

***


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

dirussell said:


> fear of death – good reason to hide from life? | yeah, but…


huh....


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

Halo said:


> huh....


i really wonder how you all plan to avoid death. by staying away from SA, are you avoiding death. in my mind, you are already dead...dead in your minds.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

dirussell said:


> If you really believe that I would be irresponsible for bringing children to this country due to the danger, then I turn to you and say the same. Australia has the highest rates of skin cancer in the world. Why would you take your children to a country where the death rate is so high? How could you expose them to such high risks of melanoma? You should be fed to the wolves for writing about how safe Australia is when you know that it is a death oven. SHAME. (hopefully you can get the sarcasm...)
> 
> ***


I have never before read such drivel.....


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

Halo said:


> I have never before read such drivel.....


perhaps you are not intelligent enough to detect the inherent sarcasm. or the irony. people die every day. you will too. you cant control it, so why let fear of it control you. it's more likely that you will die in a car or from a heart-attack than you would from being a victim of crime in SA. deal with it. you will die anyway, and all your negativity is doing more damage to your heart than anything else.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

dirussell said:


> perhaps you are not intelligent enough to detect the inherent sarcasm. or the irony. people die every day. you will too. you cant control it, so why let fear of it control you. it's more likely that you will die in a car or from a heart-attack than you would from being a victim of crime in SA. deal with it. you will die anyway, and all your negativity is doing more damage to your heart than anything else.


Obviously not.... :confused2:


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## AngeliqueH (May 21, 2010)

Where the heck did I talk about avoiding death? I think you missed the point. 

Let talk about risk and what your risk appitite is, I have the opportunity to get into a boat. One is well maintained and the other is almost falling apart. Which one do I get into to go sailing? Shoot me but I think I prefer the safer option. There is an inherent risk in both but the risk is mitigated in the first. Its that simple.

I dont fear death at all, I love life and life it to the full. I would however like to reduce the risk of having more trauma in my life which I don't think is an insane notion.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

AngeliqueH said:


> I dont fear death at all, I love life and life it to the full. I would however like to reduce the risk of having more trauma in my life which I don't think is an insane notion.


If you have kids I'll eat my shoes......


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## AngeliqueH (May 21, 2010)

Halo said:


> If you have kids I'll eat my shoes......


Eat your shoes sweetheart I have two boys.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

AngeliqueH said:


> Eat your shoes sweetheart I have two boys.


Sorry..... Was not meant for you 
"Yum, that Ugg Boot was tasty"


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

Halo said:


> If you have kids I'll eat my shoes......


i don't yet but we're planning. we have SA nieces and nephews and cousins galore. we braai, we travel, we have outdoor parties, we cycle on the boardwalk, we go on the mini-bus taxis (imagine that), we eat at great cape malay restaurants in cape flats...and yes, the kids some with us, and their parents have always included the kids.
i'm sorry your experience was not great, but please dont try to tell others how to live - live and let live. we are having the time of our life.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

dirussell said:


> i don't yet but we're planning. we have SA nieces and nephews and cousins galore. we braai, we travel, we have outdoor parties, we cycle on the boardwalk, we go on the mini-bus taxis (imagine that), we eat at great cape malay restaurants in cape flats...and yes, the kids some with us, and their parents have always included the kids.
> i'm sorry your experience was not great, but please dont try to tell others how to live - live and let live. we are having the time of our life.


Imagine that....

1. When did I say my experiences were not great?
2. When have I told others how to live?

All I can do is warn people of the dangers associated to living in South Africa....


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## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

AngeliqueH said:


> You make me lol. Ren is lying because you couldn't find the street on the map? ROTFLMAO
> 
> Seriously you are welcome to my rape report with photos, I will be happy to pass on the details of the police stations where I reported my crimes to with case numbers if you like, I can show you the insurance claims and hospitals claims with the assults. I doubt you would enjoy them though it might just break your bubble.
> 
> ...


Yes, please give me the details. I am sure you were dreaming.

And no, I am not telling there is no murder in SA. Just take a look at the stats and you will see that violence/crime is almost out of control. But when you look deeper, you see that most of crime-related facts are in townships. And no, I don't tell you there is no crime in Sandton or Cape Town CBD, as I you won't tell me there is no crime in Wellington or Auckland


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Goodie!! at last a real live one.
What are your comments regarding the SAPS Crime stats?

I am extremely interested in your comments on the Detection and Conviction rates in the Broader SA particularly pertaining to Murder, Rape and aggravated robberies ie i Home invasions.
(kindly note I said broader SA)

To what do ascribe the difference in violence in SA compared to equally poor Countries such as India and the BRIC Community.


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## Suki (Jan 23, 2008)

dirussell said:


> and what about my SA partner. what about his SA friends. what about his SA family. what about all the expats i know who have been living and working and volunteering here for 10 years? are you discounting their experiences too? these people love it here. it's not early days for them. what is your problem???


I lived a long healthy life in SA and thank goodness, never experienced a violent crime. Life in SA can be very good if you have money and the lifestyle in Cape Town is great. Contrary to popular belief, people aren't waiting around every corner to kill you. However, crime and particularly violent crime is a reality in SA and if you live there, you are always aware of it. To say otherwise is ridiculous. 

Are you telling me that you, your family and your friends dont have security gates on all your doors? You dont have burglar bars on all your windows? You dont have an alarm in your home? You dont lock all your car doors whilst driving? You keep all your parcels, bags and cellphone on the passenger seat while you are driving? You leave your things visible in the car while its parked? You would sit in the park and work on your laptop without a worry? You walk alone after dark? You wouldnt hesitate to leave your child in the car unattended for a few minutes? You would let your child go to school, cycle to a friends house alone?

Most people in first world countries can do all of that without a worry. I dont have an alarm, security gates or burglar bars. I was able to leave my house alone for 3 weeks whilst on holiday with no house-sitter or security system, just had a neighbor check in on it every now and again. As a woman I can walk home alone in the evenings from a yoga class, I can go for a walk alone in the park or countryside no problem. I can sit in the park on my own and not be bothered. This degree of freedom is unheard of in SA. I couldnt even consider any of the above living in Cape Town. 

I understand if you choose to live in South Africa and enjoy the outdoor lifestyle there. However, be honest with people enquiring about moving to SA about what they can expect. Vigilence is a necessary part of life in SA. Insisting that violence and crime are a non- issue and that you can live in South Africa with with the same degree of freedom that you have in first world countries is just ridiculous.


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## AngeliqueH (May 21, 2010)

arnaud said:


> Yes, please give me the details. I am sure you were dreaming.
> 
> And no, I am not telling there is no murder in SA. Just take a look at the stats and you will see that violence/crime is almost out of control. But when you look deeper, you see that most of crime-related facts are in townships. And no, I don't tell you there is no crime in Sandton or Cape Town CBD, as I you won't tell me there is no crime in Wellington or Auckland


You keep believing that its mostly in the townships if that makes the world more fluffy and happy place for you. 

Watch snuff movies much?


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

A Southern Cross homesickness The Gypsy Mama


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

Home - South Africa - The Good News


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

South Africa Rocks
fred hatman| diagnosed as SA-positive
Awesome SA - South Africans Positively Influencing the Future - Awesome SA - South Africans Positively Influencing the Future


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

Welcome to 27 | 27dinner.com
HUDDLEMIND - Networking. Education. Technology.
Quirky House - Peter Greenwall
The Silicon Cape Initiative
Homecoming Revolution
Shut up ******


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## AngeliqueH (May 21, 2010)

Maslow's Hierarchy. 2nd Level Security. What does it matter if we have the best wine/ideas/films if we don't have security. As wonderful as all of those things are they don't make up for a human basic need. 

Just because South Africa has the best (insert here) it doesn't help that you live in a prison.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Daxk said:


> Goodie!! at last a real live one.
> What are your comments regarding the SAPS Crime stats?
> 
> I am extremely interested in your comments on the Detection and Conviction rates in the Broader SA particularly pertaining to Murder, Rape and aggravated robberies ie i Home invasions.
> ...


Come, DI Russel, its your field after all.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Daxk said:


> Come, DI Russel, its your field after all.


I to am waiting... A couple of anecdotal good news links but very light on the facts. :hat:


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## onealdw (May 22, 2010)

I am thinking of working at the Kusile power house. Where would be a good place to reside? I am bringing my wife and 16 yr old son. What is it I should be looking forward too?


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

locking up.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Daxk said:


> locking up.


Hehehehe... on another matter, I wonder what happened to our criminologist?


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## vegasboy (Apr 28, 2010)

*Fears of Moving to South Africa*

Your post and concern is about your fears. “Truth is it doesn’t matter where you live in the world, if you live in fear then you are trapped in a horrible place.” ~Fred Hatman

Many South Africans, including myself are living in fear, and very legitimately so. For the first months or even years, (I doubt the latter, which is usually applicable if you have a vested interest here, or stretching your currency and move into denialism) you will experience a sense utopianism. That only lasts until realism steps in.

I honestly do not want to scare you off, but having to always be viligant is not normal at all.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Dont know, but she is avoiding the questions.
advertising her blog but avoiding the questions.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Daxk said:


> Dont know, but she is avoiding the questions.
> advertising her blog but avoiding the questions.


How odd......:eyebrows:


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## dirussell (May 20, 2010)

The consequences of fear

why waste time writing here when i get paid to write elsewhere? odd.


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## Deuville (May 9, 2010)

dirussell said:


> not sure what facts you are referring to. it is a fact that my south african partner, his south african friends and south african do not buy into the fear-mongering and they all live happy, free lives here, kids included. we have a large social circle that includes a number of networking groups that are all like-minded. that is a fact. that is our reality. maybe other people have different realities, but you cannot say that my life is not real. i appreciate the concern. but to be honest, i'd rather die a violent death than live a long, slow soul death due to fear.


hey, 
just wanted to know how long do u live in SA? only of my curiosity


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## Deuville (May 9, 2010)

Daxk said:


> "i'd rather die a violent death than live a long, slow soul death due to fear. "
> 
> That tells me you actually dont have a clue.


Daxk, 
I don't want to be offensive or bitter... sorry in advance if i do, but i don't think you are living in Dublin...


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## Deuville (May 9, 2010)

arnaud said:


> Yet another new member coming from nowhere telling horror stories on SA.
> 
> It's really boring. Could you please give us a proof of your horror stories.
> 
> ...


i asked my saffa boyfriend bout long street in Fish hoek.. he didn't know one..

on the AngeliqueH's post.. I can give every single detail when i was raped, held at gun point, my coworkers had a knife at their throats.. and it's all in safe Ireland


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

mind giving a year?


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## Deuville (May 9, 2010)

I don't care if you think I am a liar or I am fear mongering, what I do know is that every woman going to SA be aware that rape is a real factor and if you going to live there know damn well how to protect yourself because it happens and it doesn't matter what your colour, creed or class is.[/QUOTE]

it's similar everywhere i guess..i i'm really sorry bout ur experience, and i'm proud ofu reporting it .. i never reported mine  how safe it is for a woman to walk in fishhoek on her own?


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

No, I'm not.
I live in Galway County.
I have done so for 5 years.
is there crime?
yes, of course there is.
in the 5 years an old guy about half a mile away was beaten to death by his nephew,
a woman about 10k's away was killed by her husband.
a young swiss student was raped and strangled within two days of arriving here.
I am sure there were more rapes, lots of burglaries, oh, two South African men tried to hold up a Post office.
they chose one which had two roads, one going in and another going out.
Their Court case is ongoing.
all three the others I mentioned wee major media events, all three caught and prosecuted.

Irelands total population is less than Johannesburgs.

The difference was in the response.
The attitude.
and in the lifestyle my child enjoys here.


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## Deuville (May 9, 2010)

dirussell said:


> u think women all over the world don't get raped?? many are raped by their domestic partners, boyfriends, fathers, brothers, uncles, uncles, strangers...every single day. i am sorry you were raped, but i was assaulted too, but that does not mean that i will hide forever. that means the rapist gets more than your body - he gets your mind too. i won't allow that. i sorry he got your mind...but you have allowed him to win.


i sorry he got your mind...but you have allowed him to win.[/QUOTE] this is how i feel now..

but you have allowed him to win. u r probably a very strong person...


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Deuville said:


> i sorry he got your mind...but you have allowed him to win.


 this is how i feel now..

but you have allowed him to win. u r probably a very strong person...[/QUOTE]

No, Deuville, her experience is all book, she has never been raped,
she has never known protracted fear.
Her flip responses and gung-ho power of positive thinking does not take into account situations that live far longer than her reading about it.


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## Deuville (May 9, 2010)

Daxk said:


> No, I'm not.
> I live in Galway County.
> I have done so for 5 years.
> is there crime?
> ...


----------



## Deuville (May 9, 2010)

Daxk said:


> this is how i feel now..
> 
> but you have allowed him to win. u r probably a very strong person...


No, Deuville, her experience is all book, she has never been raped,
she has never known protracted fear.
Her flip responses and gung-ho power of positive thinking does not take into account situations that live far longer than her reading about it.[/QUOTi 

i was raped.. i could live in fear ... i choose not to tho


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## Deuville (May 9, 2010)

Deuville said:


> No, Deuville, her experience is all book, she has never been raped,
> she has never known protracted fear.
> Her flip responses and gung-ho power of positive thinking does not take into account situations that live far longer than her reading about it.[/QUOTi
> 
> i was raped.. i could live in fear ... i choose not to tho


thanks Daxk anyway, i enjoy reading ur posts.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

and I am not getting offensive or into an argument, wether you choose to live in fear is your choice.
in the same way, I do not care wether anyone goes to SA or not.
As long as they do so well informed.


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## Deuville (May 9, 2010)

Daxk said:


> and I am not getting offensive or into an argument, wether you choose to live in fear is your choice.
> in the same way, I do not care wether anyone goes to SA or not.
> As long as they do so well informed.


my last comment wasn't offensive or sarcastic.. i've only read it now myself  i do like reading ur comments, as they always make me research further. that's what i meant.. ( and then, english is not my first language ..)


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

dirussell said:


> The consequences of fear
> 
> why waste time writing here when i get paid to write elsewhere? odd.


:rofl:


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## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

Deuville said:


> i asked my saffa boyfriend bout long street in Fish hoek.. he didn't know one..
> 
> on the AngeliqueH's post.. I can give every single detail when i was raped, held at gun point, my coworkers had a knife at their throats.. and it's all in safe Ireland


Hi Deuville,

That's why I call him (her ?) a liar or a fake.
Some bitter expats tell false story to scare people abroad. That's a fact. I don't say SA is a free-crime country. Everybody knows what is happening in some slums in Kwazulu Natal or Gauteng. I must be offensive to suggest otherwise.

Fishhoek is a nice area. Capte Town is very enjoyable and you will be fine here.
You boyfriend certainly knows the town and which area to avoid.
Just take care when driving from Cape Town to Joburg, for instance. It is like in Russia, I won't go alone if I have to travel from Moscow to Krasnodar.

Enjoy Cape Town and please keep in touch with us to report how well (or bad) it is.

Arnaud


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## jockm (Jun 23, 2009)

*Please explain....*



Deuville said:


> i sorry he got your mind...but you have allowed him to win.


South Africa does sound a beautiful place that I am sure at one time was a great place to live in, for some.

Dirussell's comments to the poster regarding her experience were offensive, ignorant and yes, I agree with another poster, immature. If you are feeling a bit crap about your rape situation, put a smile on your dial and think positively!??? What a cliche - "you have let him win" - oh please! I thought the victim sounded very well adjusted and balanced, and thought it brave of her to discuss it on the forum - and to then get patronising platitudes in return...? Well, I wanted her to know that not all agree with what Dirussell had to say...

I have read these posts with interest, trying to understand what the "power of positive thinking" people believe they can achieve. I agree, that unless people believe and invest in a country's future, it is never going to rise above the ashes. But if the government isn't also supportive of this, how will it ever happen, given the statistics (i.e. such a small amount of white SA's, a la Homecoming Revolution etc, living in hope against millions that seem to want something else - perhaps a SA with no whites???). If the government isn't supportive, and the whites are totally outnumbered, how is it ever possible that things will get better? At what point do you cut your losses and give up?

I'm not trying to be contentious, I would honestly like to know the answer (if there is one). How can you beat the odds to get SA to where you want it to be?

And I find it jaw-dropping that people are arguing that the crime in SA is the sort of stuff you find elsewhere. Our state newspaper had an alert the other day that someone was snatching bags at a south-of-the-city shopping centre - be on the lookout! What a comfort it is to know that is what we have to worry about here, by and large.

Yes, so if someone can answer the question as to how thinking positively, given the numbers are horribly against white SA's, is going to get SA on track (within the next 20 years, say), living peacefully and harmoniously in the end, I would like to hear!


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## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

jockm said:


> South Africa does sound a beautiful place that I am sure at one time was a great place to live in, for some.
> 
> Dirussell's comments to the poster regarding her experience were offensive, ignorant and yes, I agree with another poster, immature. If you are feeling a bit crap about your rape situation, put a smile on your dial and think positively!??? What a cliche - "you have let him win" - oh please! I thought the victim sounded very well adjusted and balanced, and thought it brave of her to discuss it on the forum - and to then get patronising platitudes in return...? Well, I wanted her to know that not all agree with what Dirussell had to say...
> 
> ...


Why play the race card ? We don't care we are either White or Black.
Black people were oppressed in USA for decades, and now a mixed-race man heads the country. And Black people only account for 12% of the total population. This is the same amount of White people in SA.

Some dommsayers told us White people would have been exterminated after the first multiracial elections. It did not happen.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

arnaud said:


> Why play the race card ? We don't care we are either White or Black.
> Black people were oppressed in USA for decades, and now a mixed-race man heads the country. And Black people only account for 12% of the total population. This is the same amount of White people in SA.
> 
> Some dommsayers told us White people would have been exterminated after the first multiracial elections. It did not happen.


I'm not sure he was playing the race card.... He was just stating how it is...

You said it - "Some"


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## jockm (Jun 23, 2009)

arnaud said:


> Why play the race card ? We don't care we are either White or Black.
> Black people were oppressed in USA for decades, and now a mixed-race man heads the country. And Black people only account for 12% of the total population. This is the same amount of White people in SA.
> 
> Some dommsayers told us White people would have been exterminated after the first multiracial elections. It did not happen.


Your reply did nothing to illuminate me - no responses to my questions.

I can only assume there is no answer


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## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

jockm said:


> Your reply did nothing to illuminate me - no responses to my questions.
> 
> I can only assume there is no answer


Which questions ?
If you think negatively then go ahead !
Do you think the situation in Europe is much better ?


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

arnaud said:


> Which questions ?
> If you think negatively then go ahead !
> Do you think the situation in Europe is much better ?


Please take the time - Scroll up and READ his post...


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## jockm (Jun 23, 2009)

arnaud said:


> Which questions ?
> If you think negatively then go ahead !
> Do you think the situation in Europe is much better ?


Arnaud if you can't answer that's fine, but lots of others seem to feel the same way as you on this forum and I would be happy to hear from them.

To me my questions provide an excellent opportunity for someone who believes that South Africa can move forward to give me the answers to questions that I am sure many others have!

Open my mind! Happy to learn.


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## mman (Nov 15, 2009)

jockm said:


> Arnaud if you can't answer that's fine, but lots of others seem to feel the same way as you on this forum and I would be happy to hear from them.
> 
> To me my questions provide an excellent opportunity for someone who believes that South Africa can move forward to give me the answers to questions that I am sure many others have!
> 
> Open my mind! Happy to learn.


Why do you ask these questions? Do you live in South Africa?Do you plan on coming to S.A? Are u South African? Infact what experience do you have of S.A to make the statements that you have?


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## jockm (Jun 23, 2009)

Still no answers...


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

jockm said:


> Still no answers...


Don't be silly - Please first post your CV and life story just so we can be sure you're credible :tongue1:


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## jockm (Jun 23, 2009)

Halo said:


> Don't be silly - Please first post your CV and life story just so we can be sure you're credible :tongue1:


I think I might just give up - I love helping people understand more about my country, but perhaps the SA forum is a closed shop.

I was interested to know, though


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## mman (Nov 15, 2009)

jockm said:


> I think I might just give up - I love helping people understand more about my country, but perhaps the SA forum is a closed shop.
> 
> I was interested to know, though


Interested to know what? You make a statement saying that the problems of South Africa effect the white population when they clearly effect the entire population, no matter what race.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

mman said:


> Interested to know what? You make a statement saying that the problems of South Africa effect the white population when they clearly effect the entire population, no matter what race.


Not that this has anything to do with his question..... Where did he make that statement, sorry but I can't find it. 
:focus:


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## mman (Nov 15, 2009)

Halo said:


> Not that this has anything to do with his question..... Where did he make that statement, sorry but I can't find it.
> :focus:


(i.e. such a small amount of white SA's, a la Homecoming Revolution etc, living in hope against millions that seem to want something else - perhaps a SA with no whites???)

and

given the numbers are horribly against white SA's


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

mman said:


> (i.e. such a small amount of white SA's, a la Homecoming Revolution etc, living in hope against millions that seem to want something else - perhaps a SA with no whites???)
> 
> and
> 
> given the numbers are horribly against white SA's


How do you interpret that as Whites are more affected by crime? (when thats NOT what he is on about)


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Yeah, I dont see Jocks postastat either, he is asking what can be done to get all sa's to live in harmony and peace(if I understood correctly) and there are a few things that could be done immediately, that would hasten that possibility.


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## mman (Nov 15, 2009)

Halo said:


> How do you interpret that as Whites are more affected by crime? (when thats NOT what he is on about)


Well i dont know what his exact question is then, its not really much of a question but more of a statement anyways.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

mman said:


> Well i dont know what his exact question is then, its not really much of a question but more of a statement anyways.


To save you scrolling up... I'll put one of them down.

*Yes, so if someone can answer the question as to how thinking positively, given the numbers are horribly against white SA's, is going to get SA on track (within the next 20 years, say), living peacefully and harmoniously in the end, I would like to hear!*


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## Deuville (May 9, 2010)

arnaud said:


> Hi Deuville,
> 
> That's why I call him (her ?) a liar or a fake.
> Some bitter expats tell false story to scare people abroad. That's a fact. I don't say SA is a free-crime country. Everybody knows what is happening in some slums in Kwazulu Natal or Gauteng. I must be offensive to suggest otherwise.
> ...


ha ha ur comment made me smile  (in a good way . tho  i know bout travelling in russia a good bit ( after all we were occupied by them for over 50 years) 
if sa is a bit worse than russia- i think i can live there  
p.s. have u traveled from moscow to krasnodar? (i never did myself , but my dad used to)
p.p.s thanks for another proper postof yours to my original answer


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## Deuville (May 9, 2010)

hey guys,
i'm off this forum and the thread i've started. can't handle ur hate to each other. only needed an answer...
thank u all for replying!
p.s. keep on arguing! it's probably so much fun to yous


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