# Rat race escape wannabes



## Calpedream (Mar 7, 2015)

Hello Forum 

This is my first post so please be gentle with me! 

My wife and I are in our late 40's and are looking to take the plunge and escape the rat race of working life in 2 years time and spend a lot more time at our holiday home in Calpe and try and live on our savings. We don't want to move lock stock and barrel to Spain in the short term only because of our family commitments in the UK but this is an option later in life. We are in a good place financially but of course we realise our savings pot has to last many years before we get our pensions and beyond. We estimate we could have a pretty nice life while in Spain on 1200€ a month including bills etc. 
We don't have any mortgage to pay on our home in Spain so we don't need to worry about that. The monthly budget would need to cover hobbies (we are not golfers) and all of our living costs. 
Is 1200€ a month enough? Are we just living in a dream world and need a bigger budget? We have a separate pot for the UK living costs so we don't need to take that into account. Also how easy is it to make friends? I am happy with my own and wife's company but I know my wife will want to have a social circle? Currently when we come on holiday we tend to keep ourselves to ourselves but that's only because we are only there for a week or two.
Any advice would be appreciated even if it's to say you are mad!:juggle: thank you


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

If you dont need to work, have healthcare covered, then you should try it. An extended holiday first of all maybe????

Jo xxx


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Calpedream said:


> Hello Forum
> 
> This is my first post so please be gentle with me!
> 
> ...


My husband and I moved out to Spain in late 2006 and lived on our savings until we started to receive pensions at the end of last year, just over 8 years. Our total outgoings on food, bills and "normal" spending money (meals out, gym and hairdressers for me, etc), with no mortgage or rent to pay but including private health insurance for 2 people which you will need as well, amounted to around €950 per month by last year. We don't have a car so that would add more to expenses, although obviously we do spend money on bus and train fares instead.

We did spend more than that on a few short breaks each year to other destinations in Spain, though, plus my 2 annual visits back to the UK, so you might want to factor some additional sums in your budget if you want to do any travelling around.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

It all depends on what lifestyle you want to follow. We (3 adults, 2 dogs) manage quite well on €650 per month, but we don't have a mortgage and live in an area where the IBI is only €145 p.a. We run a modest car (Peugeot Partner 2009) and manage to take two holidays each year. We don't go to bars, nor eat out except on rare occasions. In addition we don't waste nor try to keep up with the 'Joneses'


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Hi
As his high spending money wasting neighbour I can confirm that Baldilocks never, ever tries to keep up with us.

The Jones's


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Rabbitcat said:


> Hi
> As his high spending money wasting neighbour I can confirm that Baldilocks never, ever tries to keep up with us.
> 
> The Jones's


Got gold buttons on your Armani hair shirt, have you


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

€1200 a month sounds perfectly reasonable to me. My partner and I were also early retirers and lived on roughly that amount for six years (excluding UK trips) until we got our pensions. We have a good social life and spend far less on a night out here than we did in the UK.

You already own a property so you know what the outgoings are. You'll need landline and internet if you haven't got it already, so budget €50 a month for that, and heating in the winter months can be costly. 

If you are coming for periods of less than 90 days at a time, you don't have to become officially resident in Spain. This means you can use your EHIC for emergency healthcare treatment, so you won't need to buy into the Spanish state system or have extra private insurance.

Assuming you will be driving over, you could bring stuff from the UK that is hard to find/expensive here, and vice versa. My friend goes home with a bootload of Rioja three times a year, which he says pays for the petrol (€2.50 a bottle compared to £7 in England)!


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## Calpedream (Mar 7, 2015)

Thank you all for your comments, we are not planning on having a car as we don't think we need one we are in the middle of the town walking distance from shops, supermarkets, restaurants and parking is a hassle that we could do with out so we don't think a car is essential. We plan to use public transport if we want to go further a field which adds to the adventure. 

P.S if the Armani comments was for me sorry only wear Prada!! Lol


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Calpedream said:


> Thank you all for your comments, we are not planning on having a car as we don't think we need one we are in the middle of the town walking distance from shops, supermarkets, restaurants and parking is a hassle that we could do with out so we don't think a car is essential. We plan to use public transport if we want to go further a field which adds to the adventure.
> 
> P.S if the Armani comments was for me sorry only wear Prada!! Lol


We also live in a town with excellent public transport and have managed to live perfectly well without a car for more than 8 years now, including travelling to many other parts of Spain. Had a lovely day out with visiting friends to Granada yesterday, by public bus, and everybody could relax and enjoy the scenery plus a glass of wine with lunch. As you say, no need to worry about finding parking either.

Having visitors to stay is something else to be factored into the equation, though - it doesn't half add up when you are going out and about every day for a week or more, often eating out twice a day plus travelling expenses. Don't tell anybody where you live, is my advice!


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

I once worked out that I NEED 1800 euros a month to live but that does include around 600 to pay for the house so if yours is paid for then you are probably spot on with 1200 ... although dont get me wrong that was what i NEED to spend to survive on an average lifestyle rather than what I actually spend in reality if you add in socialising, paying the monthly brothel bill etc... although we do run two cars too (thinking about it, if we didnt run two cars i could afford more brothel budget!)


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xicoalc said:


> I once worked out that I NEED 1800 euros a month to live but that does include around 600 to pay for the house so if yours is paid for then you are probably spot on with 1200 ... although dont get me wrong that was what i NEED to spend to survive on an average lifestyle rather than what I actually spend in reality if you add in socialising, paying the monthly brothel bill etc... although we do run two cars too (thinking about it, if we didnt run two cars i could afford more brothel budget!)


Your cost of living is multiples of ours, so it depends on lifestyle.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

€1200 per month is more than enough to survive in Spain. Escaping the Rat Race is easy, just become an unRat and remember you can't have a rat race without rats.

Best of Luck.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Leper said:


> €1200 per month is more than enough to survive in Spain. Escaping the Rat Race is easy, just become an unRat and remember you can't have a rat race without rats.
> 
> Best of Luck.


This term 'rat race' is a lazy, meaningless expression. I've used it in the past myself, I admit but no more.
People aren't rats and very few people have lives that can be described as 'races'.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> This term 'rat race' is a lazy, meaningless expression. I've used it in the past myself, I admit but no more.
> People aren't rats and very few people have lives that can be described as 'races'.


I wish what you are saying was true mrypg9, but alas, it isn't.


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

Leper said:


> I wish what you are saying was true mrypg9, but alas, it isn't.


I think ‘rat race’ is a great term which well expresses where many people are. Rats have societies, they keep themselves clean to maintain there health, they breed to maintain the on-going population, and they spend most of their time searching for food and shelter. Their lives are robotic and based on instinct. They keep themselves very occupied with routine so as not to leave any time to think beyond the routine (if indeed a rat has the ability to think outside the instinctive box - but that equally applies to some humans ).

I think the difference between a rat and a human is that the human, if they gain a certain level of financial and health independence, can replace a level of the instinctive lifestyle for a more decision based lifestyle – a selfish lifestyle if you like. They can escape to a lesser or greater degree the rat race – although of course one cannot escape it totally in our largely capitalist society. 

I don’t think it matters whether you survive on 650, 1200 or 2000 Euros a month. What matters is the time your certain level of financial and health independence gives you and what you do with that time. As several posted in previous discussions it doesn’t matter what level of wealth you have in financial terms as long as you have enough to secure your foreseeable future and meet your expectations.

However I do smile when retired people complain that they miss the rat race. I’m sure we’ve all seen early retirees desperately searching to fill their lives with anything to occupy their time. I’m beginning to wonder if I will end up like that in a year or two. 

At the moment I can’t wait to get time to:

Play more flamenco guitar despite the fact I’ll never progress beyond the very basic.
Play with my telescopes in a warmer climate although Patrick Moore’s reputation is not in danger.
Live a more self sufficient life style but not like some here who are living in the wilds.
Walk the dogs (don’t have any yet)
Etc.

But will those things replace the rat race? I have my doubts 

Sorry just an early morning witter


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Leper said:


> I wish what you are saying was true mrypg9, but alas, it isn't.


Why? For most people lucky enough to have work, their life may be boring, repetitive,unpleasant in many ways but to describe it as a rat race suggests that life is one relentless grind of ruthless competition but it isn't, is it.
I am not denying that life for a working person in the UK may be stressful but as you often rightly point out it's no different in Spain, in fact the pressures may be greater.

There is an obvious difference between work and retirement but that's all. Using the term ' rat race' is hyperbole. We owned and ran a business as well as having other interests and I admit to using the term to describe our decision to sell up and leave but looking back, I now think it was an over- dramatic exaggeration.

At all times, in all places, life has brought problems and pressures for most people, surely.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

alborino said:


> I think ‘rat race’ is a great term which well expresses where many people are. Rats have societies, they keep themselves clean to maintain there health, they breed to maintain the on-going population, and they spend most of their time searching for food and shelter. Their lives are robotic and based on instinct. They keep themselves very occupied with routine so as not to leave any time to think beyond the routine (if indeed a rat has the ability to think outside the instinctive box - but that equally applies to some humans ).
> 
> I think the difference between a rat and a human is that the human, if they gain a certain level of financial and health independence, can replace a level of the instinctive lifestyle for a more decision based lifestyle – a selfish lifestyle if you like. They can escape to a lesser or greater degree the rat race – although of course one cannot escape it totally in our largely capitalist society.
> 
> ...


Great post. You are right, financial independence means different things to different people depending on how they want to live their lives. I've heard the term "f*** off money" used to describe the amount that, once you have amassed it, you can tell your boss (or your customers if you're self employed), to ... I rather like that.

Lots of friends and work colleagues said to me, when I announced I was quitting and moving to Spain "But what will you do all day? Oh, you won't be able to cope with not working, I know you won't. You'll get really bored." They couldn't have been more wrong. I can honestly say I've never missed work, not for a minute. I don't really have any all-consuming hobbies, either, yet each year seems to pass faster than the last.
One thing I did promise myself was that I was never again going to do anything I didn't want to do or put myself at anyone else's beck and call, and apart from family obligations by and large I've kept to that.

However, as with everything else not everybody feels that way. I've known several people who moved here as early retirees and did find it very hard not to be working, and all of them went back to the UK and took up jobs again after 2/3 years. One said to me that she felt she'd lost her identity and all her self-confidence. I can't see myself that whatever you do for a living defines you as a person, but if that's how she felt, that's how she felt, and if you're not happy in a situation then it's the right thing to do to change the situation.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> Great post. You are right, financial independence means different things to different people depending on how they want to live their lives. I've heard the term "f*** off money" used to describe the amount that, once you have amassed it, you can tell your boss (or your customers if you're self employed), to ... I rather like that.
> 
> Lots of friends and work colleagues said to me, when I announced I was quitting and moving to Spain "But what will you do all day? Oh, you won't be able to cope with not working, I know you won't. You'll get really bored." They couldn't have been more wrong. I can honestly say I've never missed work, not for a minute. I don't really have any all-consuming hobbies, either, yet each year seems to pass faster than the last.
> One thing I did promise myself was that I was never again going to do anything I didn't want to do or put myself at anyone else's beck and call, and apart from family obligations by and large I've kept to that.
> ...


It all comes down to whether you live to work or work to live. I, too, have known people who had little or no interest outside work and when they retired were absolutely bored - the only good things for them was they didn't last long without the incentive to get up and go to work.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

The luckiest people are the ones who love their jobs. If I got to hate my job I moved on. The main thing I hated about working was getting up early and the travel to and from work. Ok. For some now who work from home would have suited me. Sat in front of the computer in my Jim jams dropping croissant crumbs over the keyboard.

I would call the rat race having to live to a small fixed budget. I like a bit of light at the end of the tunnel.


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## tonymar (Jan 29, 2015)

I think rat race is just a harmless expression

I felt like my like was a bit a rat race in the uk

Work, pay bills, sleep ,repeat etc 

Ok so you are going to say you have to do those things in Spain too

Yes , as some one who worked in construction

much nicer to do it in the sun than in the rain and have to work in wet clothes all day ! 

And the beer is cheaper here to !!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

tonymar said:


> I think rat race is just a harmless expression
> 
> I felt like my like was a bit a rat race in the uk
> 
> ...


The construction workers I saw in Spain didnt work during midday in the summer because it was too hot. So they used to start very early in the morning, have the afternoon off (siesta)and then start up again in the evening. 


As for the rat race - it is just an expression. My opinion is that since vast areas of the world live in poverty, fear, war torn countries, with no homes, food or security, I think the rat race, the luxuries and security it brings us is ok

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

The rat race for me was about more than the content of my job. It was about how working full-time affects everything else you have to do to accommodate it: sitting in rush-hour traffic jams, having to do the shopping at the same time as everyone else, trying to find a parking space on Saturdays, being too knackered to cook a decent meal in the evening, having to fit social events into evenings when you don't have to get up early next morning, etc etc. 

I consider myself extremely fortunate to have been able to retire early and be in control of my own timetable. That's far more important to me than having a high salary.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

It can get hot in Spain but it's just as hot in Oz if not hotter at times. We never let it bother us too much and would work through it. Yes maybe we would start earlier but then you would leave earlier, no breaks in the middle of the day.
I don't like the too hot excuse.
Plus if we had builders at our house I wouldn't be having them there in the evening and if I was a builder I wouldn't want to work in the evening.

Strange how this has developed here over time.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pazcat said:


> It can get hot in Spain but it's just as hot in Oz if not hotter at times. We never let it bother us too much and would work through it. Yes maybe we would start earlier but then you would leave earlier, no breaks in the middle of the day.
> I don't like the too hot excuse.
> Plus if we had builders at our house I wouldn't be having them there in the evening and if I was a builder I wouldn't want to work in the evening.
> 
> Strange how this has developed here over time.


The birth of and the reason for the Siesta!!!

Jo xxx


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## Calpedream (Mar 7, 2015)

Hi All

My apologies if the term rat race did offend anyone that wasn't the intention but glad to see it fuelled some debate. I can only speak for our own experiences. Both my wife and I work for FTSE 100 companies who in recent years have cut jobs to the bare bone at operation level resulting in more working hours, lunch breaks are the thing of the past and travelling time to and from work increased to 1 hour each way due to office closures. And of course if you don't like it you are told they will find someone who will! As this is becoming the norm for a lot of working people in the UK people have less time to do other things so people are always in a hurry causing endless accidents on roads (not a day goes by when there is 3 or 4 accidents some fatal on the M6) and have no time to be pleasent to each other as patiences and fatigue take over......as my father would say the UK has gone mad. So you ask yourself why continue like this, surely there is more to life than work, sleep, eat ( rarely in the day time as you don't get a break) then sleep( Even that is disturbed as you thinking about doing it all again tomorrow! ). 
P.S I am not writing this in work time I have a day off today as working Saturday annd Sunday


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Can't see as it's just a UK thing gone crazy. Ever seen the ferries out of New York at commute hours, or the freeways in LA. The Autobahns in Germany...even Mumbai. On a local note get caught on the A7 out of Malaga early evenings:juggle:


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## tonymar (Jan 29, 2015)

Pazcat said:


> It can get hot in Spain but it's just as hot in Oz if not hotter at times. We never let it bother us too much and would work through it. Yes maybe we would start earlier but then you would leave earlier, no breaks in the middle of the day.
> I don't like the too hot excuse.
> Plus if we had builders at our house I wouldn't be having them there in the evening and if I was a builder I wouldn't want to work in the evening.
> 
> Strange how this has developed here over time.


Yeh I just used to work through it 

I know its Spain and maybe we should do as the Spanish , but I wanted to get home and spend some time with the family , not work to late

Also Building is a dirty job , so didnt want to have to go home get cleaned up just to go out and get dirty again !


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## mariabc (Feb 14, 2015)

Interesting to read about retired people becoming bored, as that is one of our concerns. Retirement, no matter where you live is a major change for everybody. It seems some love it and wonder how they ever found the time to work, yet others miss working and the comradery that comes with it. When you move countries upon retirement, you're not only leaving your job, but also your social circle of friends. We have always made friends fairly easily and hope that is still the case when we get to Spain and hopefully retirement will be all we think it will be.


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

mariabc said:


> Interesting to read about retired people becoming bored, as that is one of our concerns. Retirement, no matter where you live is a major change for everybody. It seems some love it and wonder how they ever found the time to work, yet others miss working and the comradery that comes with it. When you move countries upon retirement, you're not only leaving your job, but also your social circle of friends. We have always made friends fairly easily and hope that is still the case when we get to Spain and hopefully retirement will be all we think it will be.


I think retirement is like marriage - you have to work at it  

I remember my parents many years ago getting free retirement lessons and there was a lot of info relating to things that hadn't even crossed their minds.

Still took them almost three years to fully give up shopping on a Saturday


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## Chica22 (Feb 26, 2010)

Interesting how people perceive 'retirement'. I left a well paid, but extremely demanding job in the UK at only 46 years old. People who I worked with stated 'there is no way you can retire' or 'you will be bored wthin a year and back at work', that is because there perception of me was as a workaholic who lived to work. I always replied 'I am not retiring, I am having a holiday for 20 years (because I can afford to), then I will retire'.

So my venture in Spain began with doing all the things I loved to do, without work constraints. My first memories of that time, nearly ten years ago, was the 'Sunday feeling' which previously I dreaded in the UK, but loved the time in Spain, as I knew I did not have to prepare for work the following morning.

After a few years, I started to miss the 'Friday afternoon/evening' feeling, which in the Uk consisted of dashing to M & S for food luxuries , including chocolate and wine, so strangely enough we have gone back to supermarket shopping on Fridays and if we go out for dinner, go out on Saturday night, and cleaning the house at the weekend. Others will probably prefer mid week dining out but for me it is the 'build up' deciding what to wear, booking a restaurant, and having fun.

So for anyone worrying about retirement, just think of it as a holiday, rather than being put out to pasture.

With regards to living on 1,200 per month, we had to live on a similar amount for around 4 years, the first few years I found it quite a novelty having to budget and limit spending, after that it got quite demoralising, and we were thankful once other pension streams came to fruition. Obviously each couple is individual, and living on 1,200 per month is possible, but take into account those little luxuries in life (whatever they may be) that just make life far more pleasurable.


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## SandraP (Apr 23, 2014)

When we move to Spain, he will be retired & I will finish working 10 years before retirement. It will give us the time together we are both missing out on and enable us to do the things we love doing but don't have the time to do at the moment. 
We both ride motorbikes and a couple of them will be coming with us, we will be able to explore Spain at our leisure and there will be no time constraints on us. If we want to go touring for a few weeks we will be able to without having to book holidays.
Hopefully we will get on well in our time away from work, we have only been married 2 years so we are still in the honeymoon period 
I hope to be able to do some voluntary work for an animal charity when we settle in, he will have to stay at home to look after all the animals I fall in love with and take home :rofl:


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

SandraP said:


> I hope to be able to do some voluntary work for an animal charity when we settle in, he will have to stay at home to look after all the animals I fall in love with and take home :rofl:


Do you plan to break this news before or after the move, Sandra?


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Somebody earlier suggested that the "Rat Race" does not exist. I would like to agree with this, but things are changing workwise all over the world. These Call Centres (the guys who ring people just as they are sitting down to their evening meal selling mobile phone service etc) can be described as chicken coups but when you look at how they operate you see that the chickens are involved in Rat Races almost every minute of the day.

They have targets which they must reach i.e sell something to somebody who does not want that something. Of course, there is a prize for the top seller of the coup and the rest get nothing no matter what their efforts. These Call Centres have their Rats (aforementioned guys who sell something to somebody who do not want it in the first place) and they are major contributors to Rat Races.

So, ladies and gentlemen the Rat Race exists, and like I already said you cannot have a Rat Race without Rats.


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## SandraP (Apr 23, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> Do you plan to break this news before or after the move, Sandra?


After of course, why spoil the surprise for him


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## mariabc (Feb 14, 2015)

Chicca22, I love what you answered to people........'I am not retiring, I am having a holiday for 20 years (because I can afford to), then I will retire'. I think that's what we'll say from now on when asked what we'll do all day? Maybe the people who have negative comments about us retiring to Spain, are just a little jealous and wish they themselves had an adventurous personality.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mariabc said:


> Chicca22, I love what you answered to people........'I am not retiring, I am having a holiday for 20 years (because I can afford to), then I will retire'. I think that's what we'll say from now on when asked what we'll do all day? Maybe the people who have negative comments about us retiring to Spain, are just a little jealous and wish they themselves had an adventurous personality.


Remember the Spanish word for retirement is _jubilación_ - something to celebrate!


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

mariabc said:


> Chicca22, I love what you answered to people........'I am not retiring, I am having a holiday for 20 years (because I can afford to), then I will retire'. I think that's what we'll say from now on when asked what we'll do all day? Maybe the people who have negative comments about us retiring to Spain, are just a little jealous and wish they themselves had an adventurous personality.


Without a doubt - Post of the Month - Even took my mind off losing at Cheltenham.


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## Derek H (Dec 7, 2008)

Quote..Sat in front of the computer in my Jim jams dropping croissant crumbs over the keyboard.


So they were your crumbs. Now I've got to apologise to the Mrs.

Oh bu**er !

Derek


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