# Lake Chapala - Are we too young to move there?



## Giannic32

Hey everyone! Canadian couple looking for the move to Lake Chapala. We have not yet been there, but are thinking of moving there. We are 25 and 35 respectively. Easy going as can be. Main question, is there many expats lose to our age range? Thanks so much!


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## chicois8

LOL, most residents are retired old farts...I do not think you would meet the retirement requirements of the Mexican Gob. retirement visa...Which visa are you getting?


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## perropedorro

Giannic32 said:


> Hey everyone! Canadian couple looking for the move to Lake Chapala. We have not yet been there, but are thinking of moving there. We are 25 and 35 respectively. Easy going as can be. Main question, is there many expats lose to our age range? Thanks so much!


25 and 35?!? Most Chapala expats have grandkids older than you.


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## Isla Verde

I spent a week in Chapala a few years ago when I was in my mid-60s. Almost all of the expats I met were even older than me!


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## dichosalocura

I have been living here in the city of Chapala for the past 5 years and I am 39. Well, honestly the grand majority of the expats here in this area tend to be old people, retirees. But if you consider the expat population here (nobody seems to know the exact number of course) but it has been _guestimated_ to fluctuate between 15 to 30 thousand, there are more expats in the winter months here and less in the summer months. That is a lot of people from North of the Border and around the world that live here all along the North shore of Lake Chapala. I would say that there are a good number of younger people living here now as well (people in their 20's, 30's, and 40's are not that rare around here), each year more come. There are even quite a few families with kids raising them down here, I should know, we have a 4 year old and a 13 year old and both are fully bilingual now. If I had to guess, I would say there are at least 100 young adults living here (not including all the expat kids that live here) but if the truth were known, I bet it is higher than that in reality.


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## chicois8

dichosalocura, you say :" but it been guestimated to fluctuate between 15 to 30 thousand" ...........
then you say: "if I had to guess, I would say there are at least 100 young adults living here"..........

So I stand by what I said : "*MOST* residents are retired old farts"


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## TundraGreen

Giannic32 said:


> Hey everyone! Canadian couple looking for the move to Lake Chapala. We have not yet been there, but are thinking of moving there. We are 25 and 35 respectively. Easy going as can be. Main question, is there many expats lose to our age range? Thanks so much!


There are lots of Mexicans your age there however. I spent one night in Ajijic once. We spent the evening out on the town. I noticed that until about 9 pm all the other patrons in the bar/cafe were old US/Canadian-looking people. At 9 pm they all went home and were replaced by Mexican looking couples under 40.


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## Giannic32

Everyone, thabks for all the amazing feedback. We arent the typical young couple going out late all the time, materialistic etc. We often make friends with older couples as it is, maybe not in their 60's.. Haha.. Other than lake Chapala is there any other maybe younger expat communities in mexico not in a bustling city.. Thanks again!


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## TundraGreen

Giannic32 said:


> Everyone, thanks for all the amazing feedback. We arent the typical young couple going out late all the time, materialistic etc. We often make friends with older couples as it is, maybe not in their 60's.. Haha.. Other than lake Chapala is there any other maybe younger expat communities in mexico not in a bustling city.. Thanks again!


There is a group called "InterNations" that sponsors monthly get-togethers in Guadalajara (and probably in other major Mexican cities). The people participating span a wide range of ages and nationalities. There are some retired people included but they are a minority. Most of the attendees work for international companies or in import-export ventures.

I just noticed you said "not in a bustling city". I am not sure if Guadalajara qualifies as a bustling city and is thus excluded. But if you are looking for a younger crowd, they are likely to be in places where there are employment opportunities, which means the major cities.


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## RVGRINGO

Isla Verde said:


> I spent a week in Chapala a few years ago when I was in my mid-60s. Almost all of the expats I met were even older than me!


The good news is that we are still older than you, Isla.
The bad news is that it is not as much fun as it once was.
:wave:


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## Isla Verde

RVGRINGO said:


> The good news is that we are still older than you, Isla.
> The bad news is that it is not as much fun as it once was.
> :wave:


Being older is not always much fun - I agree with that RV. I am not looking forward to celebrating my 71st birthday next month. But, as they say, it's better than the alternative!


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## RVGRINGO

“They“ are sometimes wrong. I have days like that & the frequency is increasing as I note so many of my friends have joined the “alternative“ group.
So, bring on the young folks. Mexico welcomes all ages with more open arms than in the USA. They will thrive.


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## TundraGreen

RVGRINGO said:


> “They“ are sometimes wrong. I have days like that & the frequency is increasing as I note so many of my friends have joined the “alternative“ group.
> So, bring on the young folks. Mexico welcomes all ages with more open arms than in the USA. They will thrive.


Herb Caen, a columnist for the San Francisco Chronicle, used to say that he read the obituary column every morning, and any day that he didn't find his name in it, was a good day.


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## chicois8

This is one of my Caen sayings "I tend to live in the past because most of my life is there."


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## lagoloo

If you are involved in your life RIGHT NOW, you are still young at heart. If your present focus is on the past, all is lost. You're old.
A young couple could have a grand life here in Mexico. I think the city of Chapala would be a good choice, and of course, the metropolis of Guadalajara has it all in terms of activities and culture. Just a little too hot and smoggy for me. We won't talk of the traffic. Yi!
Come down and visit for a while. Meet some of the livlier old farts and make up your minds after that.
Lots and lots of young Mexican families living in this area. If you're fluent in Spanish already, that's a plus. If not, there are plenty of instruction sources. Online, and free: Duolingo.com


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## perropedorro

Isla Verde said:


> Being older is not always much fun - I agree with that RV. I am not looking forward to celebrating my 71st birthday next month. But, as they say, it's better than the alternative!


An early Happy Birthday to you! Based on the humor and wisdom of your posts, my guess is you're aging successfully. Mostly depends on attitude and keeping one's wits. Lots of folks on the far side of 80 or 90 that make it look fun to live that long, while others are stodgy and miserable at 60, perhaps earlier.


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## dichosalocura

If the OP is still interested in this area, I would suggest to them to come on down and check it out. If they could make it down this summer, its gorgeous and cool here in the summer. Our dry hot season is finally over, now it is extremely nice, very cool, and refeshing; and to top it off the mountains and fields are soooo green right now. Indeed, this area is beautiful, and we hope our stunning lake will get to fill up nicely this summer! Lagoloo suggested that they check out the city of Chapala which is the largest town on the North shore of the lake. Chapala feels like the real Mexico and it is only 10 mins by bus down the road to Ajijic where most of the gringos live. And the big city of Guadalajara is just 45 mins away. Life here in Chapala is great and we have the nicest malecon or boardwalk too!


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## cufcgr66

Can you swim in Lake Chapala? We're hoping to visit in February 2017


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## chicois8

cufcgr66 said:


> Can you swim in Lake Chapala? We're hoping to visit in February 2017


I would not swim or eat the fish from Chapala, this from the Global Nature Fund:

Lake Chapala is extremely endangered. Eleven million people live in the catchment area (about 10 % of the total population of México), and the potential for conflict over regional water resources is high due to their overexploitation and contamination. About 81 % of the lake’s catchment area is agricultural, and the area irrigated has quintupled over the last 50 years.
Lake Chapala’s principal source is the Lerma River, which originates near Toluca in Mexico State and flows through the states of Michoacán and Guanajuato before entering Jalisco. The water entering Lake Chapala from the Lerma River is highly polluted with heavy metals and other toxic substances as a result of insufficient wastewater treatment by the many industries operating near the Lerma River. Additionally, many of the towns around the lake release their sewage and waste water into the lake without treatment.


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## lagoloo

Personally, I would not eat the fish; however, many, many Mexican families do. Don't know the results.

As for swimming in the lake, I see lots of kids and a few adults doing it. I'd advise not swallowing the water.

One popular lake sport is kayaking. There's a club that meets regularly. Hopefully, your kayak won't dump you into the necessity of learning whether the lake water is, in fact, toxic!

:welcome:


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## cufcgr66

Ah, thank you both. That's a no, then. Sorry to hijack the thread but is it worth a trip to, from Guadalajara? If so, where should we aim for? And does it have a mosquito problem?


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## TundraGreen

cufcgr66 said:


> Ah, thank you both. That's a no, then. Sorry to hijack the thread but is it worth a trip to, from Guadalajara? If so, where should we aim for? And does it have a mosquito problem?


Definitely worth a trip from Guadalajara. I go down to the lake about once a year for some reason, often when I have an out of town visitor. Both the town of Chapala and the town of Ajijic are worth visiting. It is a nice afternoon trip. I understand that there are some hot baths, maybe mud, near there, but I have never done that. I have never encountered any mosquitoes on any trips there.

There is an island in the lake with some restaurants. You can take a boat out to it, have a meal and return. There are also several seafood restaurants in the town of Chapala near the pier, and lots of choices of restaurants in Ajijic. My daughter and son-in-law stayed at a bed and breakfast in Ajijic one year. Chapala is more of a typical Mexican town, Ajijic seems a little more yuppified. In Ajijic, you hear a lot of English spoken on the street and in the shops. On weekends and holidays, a lot of people, all Mexican, from Guadalajara visit Chapala. The pier and malecon can be crowded. Ajijic doesn't seem to get the crowds but maybe I have just never been there on a holiday weekend.

All this is the view of someone who only knows the lake shore as a visitor. Perhaps a resident, could provide a different or more complete picture.


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## cufcgr66

Wow thank you TundraGreen for such an informative reply. Looks as if it's worth looking for a Tour from Guadalajara or maybe a bus and sleepover.


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## TundraGreen

cufcgr66 said:


> Wow thank you TundraGreen for such an informative reply. Looks as if it's worth looking for a Tour from Guadalajara or maybe a bus and sleepover.


There are buses about every half hour from Central Vieja (the old bus station) in downtown Guadalajara. They stop first in Chapala then go on to Ajijic. Once an hour there is a direct bus to Ajijic. It is about an hour long ride, maybe a little less. And it costs under a hundred pesos with a senior discount, but I don't remember the exact fare.


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## lagoloo

When our "kids" (all grown, with families of their own) visited for the first time, we arranged a Charter Club tour of Guadaljara. They were shown the historic district and our tour guide gave them an informative talk on the sights they were seeing. They were drop jawed: this was not the Mexico they'd heard about. They loved the tour.

We also took them on a short boat trip with a local guide to Mezcala Island; now unoccupied, but with a rich history and interesting ruins. I don't know if I'd go to Scorpion Island.......but if you have the time, you can get a plastic encrusted scorpion memento and some Mexican fast food along with a stunning view of the lake.

Chapala has a spacious malecon for waterfront strolling and a "real Mexico" feel along with a restaurant serving seafood and free bottomless margaritas. We skipped that on the supposition that free margaritas might produce a world class aftereffect, but most people like the food there, too.

The Ajijic malecon has no commerce and is a great walking experience, except on weekends when it's crowded with visitors.

I'll add that the Chapala boosters tend to be a little hard on the Ajijic-ers; sort of like the Los Angeles/San Francisco rivalry. L.A. people love San Francisco, but not the other way around.
As a long term resident of central Ajijic, I'm happy in my mixed neighborhood. The critics seem to be oblivious to the fact that most of the population is Mexican, not the immigrants from elsewhere.
Lots of English spoken since the immigrants are a good source of pesos for the workers and the shopkeepers.

Come on down and enjoy! Lots of nice B&B's, restaurants serving everything from burgers to fiery hot Mexican specialties. By all means, go to Guadalajara.
:welcome:


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## cufcgr66

Thank you all for taking the time to send me information:all duly copied into a file for our trip.


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## lagoloo

cufcgr66 said:


> Thank you all for taking the time to send me information:all duly copied into a file for our trip.


As you come into town from the east side, next to Walmart going west there is a short strip including a real estate office advertising FREE maps. I'd suggest that as a first stop. You know what to tell them.

Just to add to that file, here's my favorite Ajijic area restaurants:

#1 Cocinart: Bistro style, continental menu with world wide specials. Closed Mon and Tues. Breakfast, lunch and dinner. Good chef; healthy food, reasonable prices. On Calle #16 de Septiembre, #4D, near the lake. Close enough to walk off the goodies. Best creme brulee this side of Paris.

#2 Arileo: steak house in spacious building far west of Ajijic, right after the Jocotepec sign over the road. Carnivore delight. Good pastas, too. Closed wed. Lunch and dinner.

#3 Fonda Lola: Mexican and all around menu. Very reasonable prices. You get the full effect of the traffic sounds. Right on the main road on the West end of Ajijic, lake side of the road. Open windows: birds fly in for a snack. Closed Thurdays. Breakfast and lunch.

#4 Yves, on the service road road next to the main road a little west of Ajijic Centro.
Indoor and outdoor dining; salad bar, varied menu. Garden includes the famous white burros (tied up), a pool and lovely garden. Medium price range. Breakfast, lunch and dinner. Closed Wednesday.

There are many others, but that's a start. There are some fast food places in the Laguna Mall; all to be avoided, IMHO.
:welcome:


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## citlali

I am 70 and I am too young to live here... I find myself in Guadalajara and other places more and moe so it all depends on your personality and what ou enjoy. The area is beautiful, easy to live in because of the amenities, if it is your thing to hang around with other expats no matter what the age it is great but it is not for everyone , I personally need more fresh air than what I get here.


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## lagoloo

citlali said:


> I am 70 and I am too young to live here... I find myself in Guadalajara and other places more and moe so it all depends on your personality and what ou enjoy. The area is beautiful, easy to live in because of the amenities, if it is your thing to hang around with other expats no matter what the age it is great but it is not for everyone , I personally need more fresh air than what I get here.


I came from big cities, some with bad air (Los Angeles), and my impression of Guadalajara is that it's Los Angeles South with horrifying poverty as well as some areas of beauty. Granted, it is culturally rich in the music and art offered.

I think your perception of an area depends almost entirely on what your idea of a good time is. There are expats and there are expats. I like to associate with intelligent people with active interests who are living in the present. I don't have anything to do with the many social clubs available, and neither do the friends I've found. IMHO, there's plenty of fresh air if you look for it.
I can't help but be curious. What is your idea of fresh air and/or a good time, Citlali?


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## TundraGreen

lagoloo said:


> I came from big cities, some with bad air (Los Angeles), and my impression of Guadalajara is that it's Los Angeles South with horrifying poverty as well as some areas of beauty. Granted, it is culturally rich in the music and art offered.
> 
> I think your perception of an area depends almost entirely on what your idea of a good time is. There are expats and there are expats. I like to associate with intelligent people with active interests who are living in the present. I don't have anything to do with the many social clubs available, and neither do the friends I've found. IMHO, there's plenty of fresh air if you look for it.
> I can't help but be curious. What is your idea of fresh air and/or a good time, Citlali?


Your comparing Guadalajara to Los Angeles put me off a little, but it did remind me of a joke. What is the second largest Mexican city? Los Angeles. There are more Mexicans living in LA than in Gdl.

If I could get a bus from the center of LA and be out in the country hiking in 30 minutes, then LA might resemble Gdl. In fact, if I could take a bus in LA and get anywhere, it might resemble Gdl.

If I could walk to a block to a mercado selling fresh fruits and vegetables, with three ferreterias, a hair cutter, several papelerias, three panaderias, three tortillerias, and a bunch or other shops, then LA might resemble Gdl.

If I could walk 10 minutes to half a dozen plazas filled with people at all hours of the day and late into the evening, LA might resemble Gdl.

If everyone I passed on the street, greeted me, then LA might resemble Gdl.

I won't even start on cost of living or climate (even compared to LA).


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## lagoloo

Okay, I was being a little harsh on Guadalajara in comparing it to Los Angeles, but on the other hand, L.A. was actually a great place to grow up, way back when. The beaches were close and my neighborhood was full of friendly people. My problem with Guadalajara (and these are shared with L.A.) is the awful air at some times of year and the insane traffic.
When I lived in L.A., I wasn't sure there WAS anything outside of there since there was little chance of ever getting all the way out of town.


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## TundraGreen

lagoloo said:


> Okay, I was being a little harsh on Guadalajara in comparing it to Los Angeles, but on the other hand, L.A. was actually a great place to grow up, way back when. The beaches were close and my neighborhood was full of friendly people. My problem with Guadalajara (and these are shared with L.A.) is the awful air at some times of year and the insane traffic.
> When I lived in L.A., I wasn't sure there WAS anything outside of there since there was little chance of ever getting all the way out of town.


The air I can't argue with. The solution to the traffic is to live in a place where you can walk to almost everything you need. A city makes that possible.


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> . . . The solution to the traffic is to live in a place where you can walk to almost everything you need. A city makes that possible.


The same holds true for those of us who live in Mexico City. I live in a nice centrally-located neighborhood close to stores and cafés and markets and two movie theaters. There are many days when I can just walk to where I want to go with no need to brave the often horrendous traffic.


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## citlali

I say I need fresh air when I need a change of scenary so I went to Guadalajara yesterday for my fresh air and I am going here again tomorrow. 
I went at 7 am ad the raffic was awful and came back at 6 and it was not great either but the air in Zapopan was fine..


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## lagoloo

Pretty good "save". Chuckle.


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## chicois8

I always remember the years ( 1972-1984) when my mom and dad had their retirement home in Tonala and being able to look down on Guadalajara and see the layer of smog covering the city...


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## citlali

Tonala has really nasty air too..and I am going there tomorrow too..must like that smell..it reminds me of Paris or Mexico city in the 80´s..


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## perropedorro

TundraGreen said:


> Your comparing Guadalajara to Los Angeles put me off a little, but it did remind me of a joke. What is the second largest Mexican city? Los Angeles. There are more Mexicans living in LA than in Gdl.
> If I could get a bus from the center of LA and be out in the country hiking in 30 minutes, then LA might resemble Gdl. In fact, if I could take a bus in LA and get anywhere, it might resemble Gdl.
> .


A lot of comparison in my house too. Although I grew up NorCal, then lived in other western states, settled down in L.A. with my wife, a native _tapatía_, who continues to sing the praises of Gdl. Only thing is, she remembers it being paradise-on-Earth in the 60ś and 70ś. Still wasn't bad when I got to know it in the 80's. Since then traffic, smog and general hurried pushiness have made our frequent visits difficult. Since in-laws live in disperse parts of the metro area, traffic is the biggest problem: In the last 25 years road infrastructure in Gdl has increased 40% while the number of vehicles is up 300%, a sure recipe for disaster. As far as L.A., don't even get me started. :rant:


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## citlali

Yes traffic is a big problem..I had a meeting at 10 in one of the bank buildings at Andares mall last week and it took me 2 and a half hours to get there ..people coming from Mexico city also got there lae from the airport..going back at 5 was another nightmare..taking the bus to get there is not really an option...Today the car broke down and I havev to be in Tonala at anoter meeting and with the market on today that is going to be another fun trip and this time by bus..I sure do not envy people who have to work over there in various parts of the city as the traffic can be a real bear .the air is bad and God help you if it rains i Tonala or if you have to go oin these underpasses that flood as well..


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## lagoloo

Back in the 90's, after living in Northern CA most of my adult life, my spouse got a job offer he couldn't refuse in L.A. The first winter, we went up to Mammoth Lake to ski, and on the return trip, I looked out from our high mountain road to the scene below and saw a layer of green "fog" covering the whole L.A. basin. Gasped and said "OMG, WE ARE BREATHING THAT STUFF".

Several years later, rescue came in the form of the host company going broke. We scurried back North.
Scientific advances may someday solve the bad air problem for the big cities......but it hasn't done it yet. Meanwhile, the population grows......and grows.


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## TundraGreen

citlali said:


> Yes traffic is a big problem..I had a meeting at 10 in one of the bank buildings at Andares mall last week and it took me 2 and a half hours to get there ..people coming from Mexico city also got there lae from the airport..going back at 5 was another nightmare..taking the bus to get there is not really an option...Today the car broke down and I havev to be in Tonala at anoter meeting and with the market on today that is going to be another fun trip and this time by bus..I sure do not envy people who have to work over there in various parts of the city as the traffic can be a real bear .the air is bad and God help you if it rains i Tonala or if you have to go oin these underpasses that flood as well..


The traffic in Gdl is indeed really awful. I think I can see the worsening even in the 8 years I have been here. If I hadn't arranged my life so I never get in a car and rarely even take a bus, I would feel very differently about living here. But I have no small children who have to be chauffeured to school or soccer practice, nor any other regular obligations that require fighting traffic. My first two years here I had to commute from the city center to the periferico. It was about a 45 minute bus ride in the morning and in the evening it was anybody's guess. But I could just sit on the bus and read or sleep, so it wasn't too bad. One day a week I had to be back in centro for a Spanish class and I always had to allow a lot of extra time, because I never knew how long the bus would take. Life got simpler after that job ended.


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## perropedorro

TundraGreen said:


> The traffic in Gdl is indeed really awful. I think I can see the worsening even in the 8 years.


And now tell us about the roadwork and detours for construction of Línea 3


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## K2Family

I'd like to second dichosalocura...we're a younger couple (43 and 39) with kids (13 and 6) living in Ajijic and we've been enjoying our time here. We also don't go out a lot (even before the kids came along), so we're perfectly happy not needing the "night life" or big city attractions. If you're looking for a relaxed lifestyle and great weather, the Lake Chapala area is worth a visit, no matter what age you are.


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## Howler

*Other Places to Consider...*



Giannic32 said:


> Everyone, thabks for all the amazing feedback. We arent the typical young couple going out late all the time, materialistic etc. We often make friends with older couples as it is, maybe not in their 60's.. Haha.. Other than lake Chapala is there any other maybe younger expat communities in mexico not in a bustling city.. Thanks again!


Giannic, I came really late to this discussion, but I didn't see why you wanted to consider the Lake Chapala / Ajijic area. If it was because of the lake or waterfront area, here are a couple of other places I've visited that you might consider:

*Ixmiquilpan, Hidalgo* : I was there a couple of years ago for a couple of weeks. I don't recall a big open lake or body of water there, but there were a lot of water parks & hot pools, both public & private; with a nice looking river flowing through the main town. It seemed to have a decent local economy based on the water parks, with friendly people & a great zocalo area. I don't know about a permanent number of expats there, but I met many there, for one reason or another, usually soaking in one of the big water parks or in the food-centered nightlife around the zocalo. Obviously, a water shortage was not a problem with this area because of the aquifer & springs.

*Ixtapa de la Sal, Mexico*: This is a place I go visit with my family every time we've gone to Taxco or Cuernavaca. This place has a huge water park built around a series of natural & man-made lakes, complimented with a couple of giant hot water-fed pools. The town is nicely laid out & has prospered nicely from the park and the locals were polite & tolerant of outsiders. I can't say if there are many expats living there permanently, but someone else on here can chime in if they know.

*Tequesquitengo, Morelos* (south of Cuernavaca): Unlike the other two places, this is a huge extinct volcanic lake that does have an active tourist-based economy from visitors there to enjoy the breath-taking view & aquatic activities. Again I don't know about the expat community there because I saw mostly Mexican tourists while visiting. It seems like one of those "secret paradises" that others are bound to have found & made their own... it wouldn't surprise me. Definitely worth a visit and if you like what you see, start asking questions about the community at large (and expats in particular) while checking out the real estate market.

One other area I'd like to check out more closely is to the south-west of Cuernavaca off the beaten path we sometimes take from Taxco. It includes the two lakes "*El Rodeo*" and "*La Laguna de Coatetelco*", near Miacatlán. El Rodeo is in a more spread out area, between Miacatlán & Xochicalco with a lot of smaller communities located close to or on the lake. The last I was there I saw a lot of "se vende" signs there indicating an active real estate market, or at least some folks interested in promoting the area for construction. Following the main road west through Miacatlán around and down back to the east, La Laguna de Coatetelco is located close to the town of Coatetelco. I didn't see much in the way of smaller communities around the laguna beyond a few private residences, mostly of fishermen. Both lakes seemed to be clean enough to have recreational activities (fishing, swimming, boating, etc.) going on. There didn't appear to be many expats there, but it's still a beautiful area with a lot of history & some ruins. BTW, the ruins of Xochicalco are definitely worth a visit for ANYONE interested. Being near Cuernavaca, you'll find all the nightlife & expats, of all ages, that you could want to see.

I hope that helped some, based on what I could perceive from your original post. Still anyone is welcome to hijack this information or use it to start an new thread for those wanting a waterfront-based existence in their retirement plans.


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## chicois8

It is a shame SEMARNAT on there new website that shows pollution at tourist beaches throughout the country do not include their biggest lake, Chapala. 
Maybe the expats living around the lake might like to know..........

Programa de playas limpias


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## lagoloo

chicois8 said:


> It is a shame SEMARNAT on there new website that shows pollution at tourist beaches throughout the country do not include their biggest lake, Chapala.
> Maybe the expats living around the lake might like to know..........
> 
> Programa de playas limpias


I don't think anyone living near Lake Chapala is unaware of its pollution probems, which allegedly are being worked on, but you won't see my head bobbing in the water there!


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## TurtleToo

Howler said:


> Giannic, I came really late to this discussion, but I didn't see why you wanted to consider the Lake Chapala / Ajijic area. If it was because of the lake or waterfront area, here are a couple of other places I've visited that you might consider:
> 
> *Ixmiquilpan, Hidalgo* : I was there a couple of years ago for a couple of weeks. I don't recall a big open lake or body of water there, but there were a lot of water parks & hot pools, both public & private; with a nice looking river flowing through the main town. It seemed to have a decent local economy based on the water parks, with friendly people & a great zocalo area. I don't know about a permanent number of expats there, but I met many there, for one reason or another, usually soaking in one of the big water parks or in the food-centered nightlife around the zocalo. Obviously, a water shortage was not a problem with this area because of the aquifer & springs.
> 
> *Ixtapa de la Sal, Mexico*: This is a place I go visit with my family every time we've gone to Taxco or Cuernavaca. This place has a huge water park built around a series of natural & man-made lakes, complimented with a couple of giant hot water-fed pools. The town is nicely laid out & has prospered nicely from the park and the locals were polite & tolerant of outsiders. I can't say if there are many expats living there permanently, but someone else on here can chime in if they know.
> 
> *Tequesquitengo, Morelos* (south of Cuernavaca): Unlike the other two places, this is a huge extinct volcanic lake that does have an active tourist-based economy from visitors there to enjoy the breath-taking view & aquatic activities. Again I don't know about the expat community there because I saw mostly Mexican tourists while visiting. It seems like one of those "secret paradises" that others are bound to have found & made their own... it wouldn't surprise me. Definitely worth a visit and if you like what you see, start asking questions about the community at large (and expats in particular) while checking out the real estate market.
> 
> One other area I'd like to check out more closely is to the south-west of Cuernavaca off the beaten path we sometimes take from Taxco. It includes the two lakes "*El Rodeo*" and "*La Laguna de Coatetelco*", near Miacatlán. El Rodeo is in a more spread out area, between Miacatlán & Xochicalco with a lot of smaller communities located close to or on the lake. The last I was there I saw a lot of "se vende" signs there indicating an active real estate market, or at least some folks interested in promoting the area for construction. Following the main road west through Miacatlán around and down back to the east, La Laguna de Coatetelco is located close to the town of Coatetelco. I didn't see much in the way of smaller communities around the laguna beyond a few private residences, mostly of fishermen. Both lakes seemed to be clean enough to have recreational activities (fishing, swimming, boating, etc.) going on. There didn't appear to be many expats there, but it's still a beautiful area with a lot of history & some ruins. BTW, the ruins of Xochicalco are definitely worth a visit for ANYONE interested. Being near Cuernavaca, you'll find all the nightlife & expats, of all ages, that you could want to see.
> 
> I hope that helped some, based on what I could perceive from your original post. Still anyone is welcome to hijack this information or use it to start an new thread for those wanting a waterfront-based existence in their retirement plans.


Great post, Howler! Thanks for taking the time to post such useful detailed information about these locations.


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## RVGRINGO

Lake Chapala is not a “tourist beach“, nor is it a destination resort for international tourists. Thank goodness for that! It is a great place to live and enjoy everything that it has to offer; which is a lot. Yes, it is a bit of a weekend destination for “Tapatios“, folks from Guadalajara, but the “beaches“ are a few hours west and downhill, on the Pacific Coast.....a good place to visit, not to live, IMHO. Tourist destination resort beaches have a tendency to attract vultures, drunks, time-share touts, and tourist-trap prices that are three or more times higher than normal......Ugh!


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## Anonimo

> Ixmiquilpan, Hidalgo : I was there a couple of years ago for a couple of weeks. I don't recall a big open lake or body of water there, but there were a lot of water parks & hot pools, both public & private; with a nice looking river flowing through the main town. It seemed to have a decent local economy based on the water parks, with friendly people & a great zocalo area. I don't know about a permanent number of expats there, but I met many there, for one reason or another, usually soaking in one of the big water parks or in the food-centered nightlife around the zocalo. Obviously, a water shortage was not a problem with this area because of the aquifer & springs.


I liked Ixmiquilpan also, but haven't been there more than a day or two at a time. The Mercado is especially interesting for Mexico foodies. The Grutas de Tolantongo, about 1 hour's drive to the west, is a hot springs resort that shouldn't be missed.

I imagine some fluency in Spanish would be required to live there.


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## Ross&MaryAnn

Howler said:


> Giannic, I came really late to this discussion, but I didn't see why you wanted to consider the Lake Chapala / Ajijic area. If it was because of the lake or waterfront area, here are a couple of other places I've visited that you might consider:
> 
> *Ixmiquilpan, Hidalgo* : I was there a couple of years ago for a couple of weeks. I don't recall a big open lake or body of water there, but there were a lot of water parks & hot pools, both public & private; with a nice looking river flowing through the main town. It seemed to have a decent local economy based on the water parks, with friendly people & a great zocalo area. I don't know about a permanent number of expats there, but I met many there, for one reason or another, usually soaking in one of the big water parks or in the food-centered nightlife around the zocalo. Obviously, a water shortage was not a problem with this area because of the aquifer & springs.
> 
> *Ixtapa de la Sal, Mexico*: This is a place I go visit with my family every time we've gone to Taxco or Cuernavaca. This place has a huge water park built around a series of natural & man-made lakes, complimented with a couple of giant hot water-fed pools. The town is nicely laid out & has prospered nicely from the park and the locals were polite & tolerant of outsiders. I can't say if there are many expats living there permanently, but someone else on here can chime in if they know.
> 
> *Tequesquitengo, Morelos* (south of Cuernavaca): Unlike the other two places, this is a huge extinct volcanic lake that does have an active tourist-based economy from visitors there to enjoy the breath-taking view & aquatic activities. Again I don't know about the expat community there because I saw mostly Mexican tourists while visiting. It seems like one of those "secret paradises" that others are bound to have found & made their own... it wouldn't surprise me. Definitely worth a visit and if you like what you see, start asking questions about the community at large (and expats in particular) while checking out the real estate market.
> 
> One other area I'd like to check out more closely is to the south-west of Cuernavaca off the beaten path we sometimes take from Taxco. It includes the two lakes "*El Rodeo*" and "*La Laguna de Coatetelco*", near Miacatlán. El Rodeo is in a more spread out area, between Miacatlán & Xochicalco with a lot of smaller communities located close to or on the lake. The last I was there I saw a lot of "se vende" signs there indicating an active real estate market, or at least some folks interested in promoting the area for construction. Following the main road west through Miacatlán around and down back to the east, La Laguna de Coatetelco is located close to the town of Coatetelco. I didn't see much in the way of smaller communities around the laguna beyond a few private residences, mostly of fishermen. Both lakes seemed to be clean enough to have recreational activities (fishing, swimming, boating, etc.) going on. There didn't appear to be many expats there, but it's still a beautiful area with a lot of history & some ruins. BTW, the ruins of Xochicalco are definitely worth a visit for ANYONE interested. Being near Cuernavaca, you'll find all the nightlife & expats, of all ages, that you could want to see.
> 
> I hope that helped some, based on what I could perceive from your original post. Still anyone is welcome to hijack this information or use it to start an new thread for those wanting a waterfront-based existence in their retirement plans.


This is very helpful! Thanks!


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## citlali

There are lots of young foreigners living usualy for not many years in San Cristobal de las Casas, Chiapas-


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## lat19n

citlali said:


> There are lots of young foreigners living usualy for not many years in San Cristobal de las Casas, Chiapas-


Readily available weed ??


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## ojosazules11

lat19n said:


> Readily available weed ??


This may say more about me than about San Cristobal, but on the streets of San Cristobal last summer was the first time I ever had anybody ask if I wanted to buy marijuana - albeit in topical ointment form. 😉


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## lat19n

ojosazules11 said:


> This may say more about me than about San Cristobal, but on the streets of San Cristobal last summer was the first time I ever had anybody ask if I wanted to buy marijuana - albeit in topical ointment form. 😉


First - since we seem to have awakened a dead thread - I'll add - shortly after getting here (some time back) I/we tried to get involved in the local 'expat' thing - and at age (let's say 60) I was (except for my wife) the youngest person in the room by perhaps 10 years. 

I have never traveled to Chiapas - but I very well may have been there from the Guatemalan side. There were a lot of interesting enclaves (military/hippie/Nazi) that you can come across if you go down a least traveled dirt road.


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## chicois8

Lake Chapala - Are we too young to move there?

I'm 71 and I am to young to live there...........


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## Isla Verde

chicois8 said:


> Lake Chapala - Are we too young to move there?
> 
> I'm 71 and I am to young to live there...........


I'm 72 and I feel the same!


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## lagoloo

Enough, already. I've lived in Mexico for 14 years; three in San Miguel de Allende and ten in Ajijic.
This b.s. about "too young" is in the mind of the beholder. I've known people who are old at 23 and those who are "young" at 80. It depends entirely on who you choose for friends, what you choose for activities, and how you use your mind. The president of an Art Guild here is 93; she is still actively creating, exhibiting and selling her work as well as arranging shows for the membership. Younger families are moving here with their kids, and guess what? In case nobody has noticed, the young Mexicans are the majority of those living here. 

Of course you can find plenty of old farts and fartesses who have nothing better to do in their retirement than drink themselves stupid and be cranky. They live everywhere on the planet. Just don't hang out with them!
AGEISM IS AS MINDLESS AS RACISM.


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## citlali

you can get the same ointment at the matket in Ajijic it works well it has marijuana, peyote and the generic for voltaren in it.. hard to say what really works since it is a mixture but it works well.


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## Jim from Alaska

chicois8 said:


> Lake Chapala - Are we too young to move there?
> 
> I'm 71 and I am to young to live there...........


I'm 59 so that must make me jail bait? Besides growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional and I refuse to grow up. Nobody is ever too young to do anything unless your momma is still swapping diapers for you.


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## lagoloo

Jim from Alaska said:


> I'm 59 so that must make me jail bait? Besides growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional and I refuse to grow up. Nobody is ever too young to do anything unless your momma is still swapping diapers for you.


I refuse to grow all the way up, too!


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## citlali

That is all very nice but old is old, just be around lots of young people and you quickly see you are not thinking the way they do, not acting the way they do, you are different, not better not worst different. Correction the physical part is way worst just go hunting for sand with them to the top of a mountain and carry the sand back on your back.. go running up 500 steps at 5000 meter altitude and see if old people´s feet go up as much as young people´s.. All this talk about being young is just words..go out with young people and see how young you are.. 

Mentally is the same thing but if you remind sharp you may have the advantage of experience but young peole look at life in a different way and enjoy different things. 

Mexico is a great place to be when you are old because young people respect experience and age. I see old teachers have a wonderful relationships with their young students, old and young people here mix much more socially than up north but lets not kid ourselves at 70 we are old so let´s enjoy what we have and not try to play the young at heart ..old is old.. enjoy each stage of life if you can and move on.


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## lagoloo

Physical is one thing. Old bodies are old bodies and can't compete on that level. I was once an active skier, sailor and hiker. Then my back went south, but there's much more to enjoying life. Many young people have physical limitations, too.

What is usually meant by the tired phrase "young at heart" is enthusiasm to learn new things, enough wisdom to know when to shut up, when to share knowledge, and how to be comfortable with people much younger...or older. 

The saddest old people I've encountered are those who have no interests to pursue after they leave the working world. They let their brains atrophy. They often turn into drunks.

The saddest younger people are those who can't handle the idea that they won't always be young and have no plans for the next stage of life. 

There's a reason why there are so many plastic surgeons setting up shop here.


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## RVGRINGO

Well said, Lagoloo, even though I think of you as younger. It seems that most everyone is younger these days, if they are still alive. It is difficult to lose most of your friends so very quickly, as has happened to us in the last few years. Yes, we miss Mexico for many reasons, but most especially for the fact that we old folks did enjoy respect from all ages, and what a joy that was. Here, in the USA, we are totally ignored.


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## Isla Verde

RVGRINGO said:


> Well said, Lagoloo, even though I think of you as younger. It seems that most everyone is younger these days, if they are still alive. It is difficult to lose most of your friends so very quickly, as has happened to us in the last few years. Yes, we miss Mexico for many reasons, but most especially for the fact that we old folks did enjoy respect from all ages, and what a joy that was. Here, in the USA, we are totally ignored.


As a 72-year-old woman with silvery hair, I often get offered a seat on a crowded bus or subway car, which is one way showing respect for my years. It's hard for me to think of you and Louise as being totally ignored. What's wrong with the people where you live?


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## lat19n

Maybe we don't look as old as we are - but I think in five years we were only asked to go the front of the line once - and that may have been on the VERY long line for the pharmacy at IMSS. There are times when there are lines dedicated for the elderly - but we never use them - just as we never use the lines at the bank for 'Premium clients'. What is the rush. I as a senior often ask a pregnant woman or someone holding a young child to get in front of me. 

If you are in the US and don't feel you are getting the respect you are due as a senior - move to South Florida where you will be in the majority and can push and shove in line with all the others of a similar ilk.


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## lagoloo

Where we came from in California, especially in Southern CA, anyone over 60 ceased to exist in the eyes of the rest of the population. Sad. I think it may be that the youth and beauty culture is so prominent there that the sight of what they would one day become caused just plain FEAR in their tiny hearts and heads.

Mexicans are realists, above all. The culture mocks death. They can deal with the idea of aging. It shows in the respectful way elders are treated. What's happening NOB in the general attitudes towards life is not headed in the right direction. I wonder how long it will be before the "Soylent Green" solution will be used to solve the Social Security fund problem? (For those too young to remember the movie, check it out on Google.)


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## RVGRINGO

Are there people here in AZ? All we see are cars. Even the buses have their windows painted over with one-way advertizing. Maybe they carry people; you cannot tell. At our rather frequent visits for medical check-ups or care, the waiting rooms are as silent as the interiors of elevators; nobody speaks until a door opens and your name is called. Dismal!
We have tried to befriend our new neighbors, but they have little interest in anything beyond their “devices“, which they twiddle with their thumbs, even when being spoken to. Insulting!
So, we keep to ourselves and play table games, with the exception of a few ladies‘ luncheons that Louise attends, as she can still drive. I try to stay connected to a few remaining live and cognitive friends online, as we are a scattered bunch....well, now just a few left & most of are no longer up to travel. Golden years? Not any more folks. Enjoy it while you can.


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## lat19n

Seriously - consider relocating to Palm Beach County Fl. Perhaps the Boynton Beach area. It is a little west of the beach - but it is calm. They have a Veteran's hospital in Palm Beach. Life is affordable. People are nice - almost like 'old' Florida. 

Disclaimer : we have never lived in Boynton Beach - but we have friends who do - and we have driven through the area thousands of times.


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## lagoloo

Good suggestion. RV is clearly unhappy living in AZ. Florida sounds better. Of course, moving anywhere is a huge hassle.


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## Isla Verde

RVGRINGO said:


> Are there people here in AZ? All we see are cars. Even the buses have their windows painted over with one-way advertizing. Maybe they carry people; you cannot tell. At our rather frequent visits for medical check-ups or care, the waiting rooms are as silent as the interiors of elevators; nobody speaks until a door opens and your name is called. Dismal!
> We have tried to befriend our new neighbors, but they have little interest in anything beyond their “devices“, which they twiddle with their thumbs, even when being spoken to. Insulting!
> So, we keep to ourselves and play table games, with the exception of a few ladies‘ luncheons that Louise attends, as she can still drive. I try to stay connected to a few remaining live and cognitive friends online, as we are a scattered bunch....well, now just a few left & most of are no longer up to travel. Golden years? Not any more folks. Enjoy it while you can.


It sounds awful, RV. Maybe you should seriously think of moving to a friendlier area.

Golden years? My great-aunt Mary called them the "rusty years"!


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## RickS

_Seriously - consider relocating to Palm Beach County Fl. Perhaps the Boynton Beach area where it is almost like 'old' Florida. _

It is possible that Boynton Beach is nice compared to most other parts of Florida and sounds like it might meet RVs requirements. BUT, there is NOWHERE in Florida that is like 'old Florida'! I visited there a lot in the 50s and my wife lived there (Jupiter, West Palm) in the 60s. It was truly an outdoors paradise.... well maybe a little hot and humid in the summers, but....

The only thing left resembling 'old Florida' is on the west/Gulf coast maybe from Cedar Key down to Homosassa where they actually try to draw tourists by calling it 'Old Florida'.


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## lat19n

RickS said:


> _Seriously - consider relocating to Palm Beach County Fl. Perhaps the Boynton Beach area where it is almost like 'old' Florida. _
> 
> It is possible that Boynton Beach is nice compared to most other parts of Florida and sounds like it might meet RVs requirements. BUT, there is NOWHERE in Florida that is like 'old Florida'! I visited there a lot in the 50s and my wife lived there (Jupiter, West Palm) in the 60s. It was truly an outdoors paradise.... well maybe a little hot and humid in the summers, but....
> 
> The only thing left resembling 'old Florida' is on the west/Gulf coast maybe from Cedar Key down to Homosassa where they actually try to draw tourists by calling it 'Old Florida'.


Yes - we have been canoeing / diving in Crystal River. Very special. But that was 20-25 years ago. Boynton Beach is nothing like that - but it is easier to get things like medical care there. But if you go far enough West - west of the Turnpike you can get away from the hustle of the I95 corridor. It is also more affordable. 

When I was a kid I spent my summers in the area north of Orlando - before Disney moved in. Those are nice memories. I have a friend who grew up in Boca. He remembers when there no buildings along the Intracoastal.


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## citlali

when I lived in Mobile we went to the beach in Destin.. , Gulf shores etc.. just cabins on stilts on the beach now it is solid condos.. I do not need to go back ever.. Actually I made a decision in the 80´s to never go back and the only place I go back to is Paris.. the places out in the country.... I rather remember them than see what happened.. There are plenty of new places to experience .


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## RVGRINGO

I have tried Florida, on the eastern shore by boat, and in other places by RV, etc. It does not attract me at all; hot, humid, mosquitoes and much too crowded and expensive.
Admittedly, I am a bit depressed at the moment, having just recovered from a mini-stroke, but am OK again. Our medical needs are well served in Tucson, and the climate is agreeable, in spite of having to use AC and Heat. It is just boring, but I guess that is part of being old, having no family or distractions beyond the internet and TV. I fear that we have made our last move. I changed the furnace filter yesterday and that required a rest; yet I still dream of doing so many things....now impossible things.
So, I participate on these boards and have to satisfy myself with that and a few card games, etc.


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## ojosazules11

RVGRINGO said:


> I have tried Florida, on the eastern shore by boat, and in other places by RV, etc. It does not attract me at all; hot, humid, mosquitoes and much too crowded and expensive.
> Admittedly, I am a bit depressed at the moment, having just recovered from a mini-stroke, but am OK again. Our medical needs are well served in Tucson, and the climate is agreeable, in spite of having to use AC and Heat. It is just boring, but I guess that is part of being old, having no family or distractions beyond the internet and TV. I fear that we have made our last move. I changed the furnace filter yesterday and that required a rest; yet I still dream of doing so many things....now impossible things.
> So, I participate on these boards and have to satisfy myself with that and a few card games, etc.


Your ongoing participation on this forum certainly contributes to making it a great place. So glad you’ve stayed with us.


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## RVGRINGO

Thanks for that. Your “blue eyes“ moniker just reminded me that another passtime has been working on the family tree, including recent DNA results. In spite of my own blue eyes, my ancestors started in Nigeria, made it to North Africa, then crossed into Iberia. From there, they made it to Eastern Europe, France (where they really multiplied) and England-Ireland-Wales. Then, they made it to the New World; some via New England, and others via New France (Quebec) where some intermaried with Mohaws. So, we started out dysfunctional and have remained so through the Revolution and Civil War, where family members fought on both sides and never spoke of, or to each other again. Must have been a Viking or two in the mix somewhere, both my children both have blue eyes, yet somewhat olive complexions from their Sicilian blooded mother; who probably has an interesting mix from all around the Mediterranean. Our roots may be limited, but those branches sure grew to a large tree. I imagine it is quite common, but imagination could also lead to some tall tales. As it is, we have a few scalpings in the family and POW experiences in the North, South and in Quebec; plus a great uncle who carried a musket ball for the rest of his life, and another who fell out of a hay mow, after surviving an Indian attack, only to land on a pitchfork and die that way. Then, there are the branches that run into dead ends; mostly the indigenous branch with no last names and no records. One was my grandmother‘s mother, who gave birth to 14. Yikes! The only real surprise is the origin in Nigeria; as I would have suspected East Africa, but maybe the trail gets too dim with all that time. It is fun.


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## lat19n

Interesting post. I have never really tried tracing my family tree but I know that WWII would make that a very difficult thing. To the best of my knowledge my family was never Jewish - yet as Germans who were against Hitler they went through some tough times and my FAMILY is really a consortium of people who bonded together. My paternal grandmother's two 'sisters' were not blood. I have a grandfather (through a second marriage) who was very well off in Germany and left for the US with a single oil painting (of value) with his two young daughters - one of whom pushed the button to launch some of the Mercury/Gemini flights. The immediate family I have known was terribly dysfunctional and there are/will be dead-ends all over the place. 

What are you using to do your research ?


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## lagoloo

My husband got into Genealogy a few years back and was able to trace his family tree through the Mormon site and Ancestry.com; all the back to Julius Caesar's time. His ancestry has some class, but I'm a real mutt and my history just stopped a couple of hundred years ago on my mother's side. Probably were hunted as witches and headed for the mountains. The other side had a clearer history and were Quakers who came over before the American Revolution. Lots of fun to do this, but it usually doesn't tell the real stories. Wouldn't it be great if you could hear your ancestors tell us their experiences?


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## TundraGreen

My genetic family tree is pretty short. It consists of me and my two kids. I was adopted and my only grandson was adopted, so there is no genetic history beyond me and my two kids either going backwards or forwards.


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## Isla Verde

My Jewish ancestors emigrated from Ukraine in the last years of the Russian Empire. I wonder if there is any possibility of tracing my genealogy any further back than the generation of my great-grandparents.


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## RVGRINGO

My brother uses Ancestry.com, and I use MyHeritage.com. There are also some limited services that are free, up to a point, on those, and on Family Planner and Geni.
My wife, who is blue eyed and has skin the color of this white background, was surprised when she, a child of a KKK member, found her Nigerian roots to be 1.2% and that she was also 1.1% Ashkenazi Jewish, though her ancestors veered off to the east, and also passed through Eastern Europe, but by a more norther, blonder route and then down to Wales & Ireland, etc. Maybe a Viking slave? She just cannot tan and we both fight skin cancer or melanoma due to too much sunshine. She thinks her father is now flipping in his grave.
Tundra:
If you have your DNA done, it will also detect distant cousins, several times removed, and other such clues. I haven‘t tried to follow any of those yet, but they could give you some insight and possible connections, as you can contact managers of their family trees, or sometimes the individuals....just the living ones though.


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## citlali

When I read some of the results of Ancestry ..research like the one to Julius Cesr I cannot help but smile about that.... it is nice to believe whatever you want to believe .. 

On the other hand my brother dated a beautiful blond blue eyed girl in hich school and we knew her parents and grand-´parents, they were all mulatoes with light eyes but there was no way you could have imgained the girl to come from what would be considered in the States a black family. Her family came from Martinique .

Most people in Europe find they hae some aristocrats´blood in their background and most aristocrats find they have commoner´s blood.. surprise surprise..


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## RVGRINGO

Unfortunately, my grandmother, Marguerite Bouvier, never met Jackie. I might have had a better sailboat. But, sailing may be genetic too, as my uncle drowned in a sailing accident when he was 16. Never got to meet him, either.


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## ojosazules11

Being Mennonite, which over the past 5 centuries was a fairly closed group in terms of who married whom, we have genealogical records going back several hundred years. On my mother’s side (Swiss Mennonite - the Swiss have kept detailed records for a very long time), we traced one line back to the 1300s near Bern. Of course, they would have been Catholic back then. My mother’s maiden name - now well known as a Mennonite surname - was originally a vernacular version of a Catholic saint’s name. 

My brother did the “23 and Me” DNA testing. I don’t remember all the details, but suffice it to say that the myth of a “pure” race is just that, a myth.


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## lagoloo

Somewhere, I read an interesting bit that those whose ancestors survived the Great Plague in Europe are now all very distant, but nevertheless, cousins. So........hi, all you cuzess!


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## TundraGreen

RVGRINGO said:


> …
> Tundra:
> If you have your DNA done, it will also detect distant cousins, several times removed, and other such clues. I haven‘t tried to follow any of those yet, but they could give you some insight and possible connections, as you can contact managers of their family trees, or sometimes the individuals....just the living ones though.


My birth father's name is pretty unusual, so I have been able to learn a little about him, mostly just his birth and death dates. On the other hand, my birth mother's name is very common and I know nothing at all about her. I have never had a DNA analysis. Really, I am pretty happy not knowing my genetic heritage.


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## citlali

Gringal . I thought that everyone alive now with European ancestors had ancestors who survived the great plague otherwise we would not be around..No? SO does that mean we are all cousins??


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## lagoloo

That's what I've heard. Evidently the survivors had the ability to resist the plague.


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## citlali

or they just got lucky. By the way the plague known as the black death is still around.. it is propagated by flees and when I lived in Sonoma the daughter of my neighbor got it..She pocked it up from her cat who had picked it up from a squirrel so maybe the lucky ones who survived did not have pets..


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## lagoloo

...That works for me.


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## Uecker_seats

great thread! I always though LC would be a good option to retiring in PV. How far of a drive is it to PV, and of course, Tequila MX? LOL!


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## RickS

Uecker_seats said:


> great thread! I always though LC would be a good option to retiring in PV. How far of a drive is it to PV, and of course, Tequila MX? LOL!


It's about 1.5 hours to Tequila by the new toll road. About 4-5 hours to PV depending on which way you go and how your drive. There is a new toll road that is partially done. When/if it gets completed (1-2 years?) the drive will be far easier on the last part.


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