# Job offer in South Africa



## New Zealander (Sep 21, 2010)

Hi all

I am in the process of being offered a job in South Africa/ jbg paying very well by NZ standards.


My biggest concern has been all the news reports/ forums about the severe levels of crime in jbg where I will be based.

I have worked in Papua New Guinea for a couple of years, where I had armed security with me 24/7 and saw some pretty bad things happen around me as well as to workmates. I promised my self I wouldn't put myself in a position that bad again.

Reading through these articles it is very difficult to judge exactly how dangerous it is over there. People's points of views are so varied between, there is a very high chance you will be a victim of serous crime while over there, to SA is a livable country where the majority of ex pats that act situationally responsible have little bad experiences.

I guess where I am leading to is, I would like an idea on day-to-day life over there. Just how restricted life is, what you can do safely. I guess my mind is stuck in the PNG mentality where you could very scarcely travel to many places without security and it felt like being locked in Jail constantly. Expats were heavily targeted for their money and life meant very little to the minority of criminals around the main centers. That being said PNG gave me experiences that you could get nowhere else in the world.

Some more specific questions I am interested in about jbg in particular:

Nightlife - just how safe is it to go out, how people travel around safely when going out, are the pubs/ clubs safe
The absolute safest places to live/ cost of this (my main concern) and leading from this, just how dangerous it is to travel from home to work
Will I be targeted for kiddnappings/ theifts because i am a foreigner (I am likely to have many national employees working for me, in PNG it was these employees when disgruntled who targeted/ attacked us)
Some examples of people's week-to-week lives would be fantastic (i.e. just a list of what they breifly do each day and more specifically how the crime over there effects how they live)

Any assistance would be much appreciated.

Regards
NZ


----------



## Weebie (Sep 16, 2009)

The data isn't good but it's not that bad. 35-40 people are murdered every day in the Gauteng province but you need to take into account that as much as 20-25 million people live in that area. Hundreds of people are murdered in India and China every day. I've been before and I'm heading back soon there is no doubt that you need to be careful in Johannesburg but South Africa isn't that bad personally I would be more scared walking around the streets of Auckland at night than Cape Town, Durban or Port Elizabeth.

If you been to South Africa you'll be quite suprised that there are people there who have never been a victim or witnessed any form of crime. Here in Australia that simply is unfathable to say the least. I witness soem form of crime every week here in Perth.

I've never been to papua new gunea but I would be scared to leave my hotel there. In Johannesburg I had no problems walking in many areas event went into the old city centre at night and the dodgy suburbs Hillbrow and yeoville. Although I wouldn't reccomend this I wasn't shot dead that the locals would say is a certainty if I did this.

Nightlife in South Africa is safer than Australia. Next to no stabbings occur and the mood is generally more relaxed this woudl never happen in Australia or New Zealand. Johannesburg has some good nightlife.

take precautions like locking your cars always and always check the driveway then you enter home.

You will be targeted if your byself and in the wrong area at the wrong time wearing the wrong clothing. Happens everywhere in the world. Plenty of Foreigners live in Johannesburg.

I'm heading to Cape Town in 2 months.

Cheers


----------



## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

> Nightlife - just how safe is it to go out, how people travel around safely when going out, are the pubs/ clubs safe
> The absolute safest places to live/ cost of this (my main concern) and leading from this, just how dangerous it is to travel from home to work
> Will I be targeted for kiddnappings/ theifts because i am a foreigner (I am likely to have many national employees working for me, in PNG it was these employees when disgruntled who targeted/ attacked us)
> Some examples of people's week-to-week lives would be fantastic (i.e. just a list of what they breifly do each day and more specifically how the crime over there effects how they live)



Hi. Firstly when thinking of Jhb you need to get some perceptions out of your mind you might be having. While JHB has it's poorer areas and dangerous areas , it is no filthy broken down Lagos. For the most part it's perfectly possible to live there and feel like you were in some city in the U.S.A. and never venture into the dodgy areas. 

To try answer your questions.

JHB has thriving nightlife. I know you'll read a lot about "people are too scared to go out at night" and other such tosh. But in reality almost every night of the week JHBers go out and pack the bars, restuarants and clubs. It's a good cosmipolitan diverse group of people and it makes for a very good night life.

There are many safe parts of JHb to live in. It all depends on budget. It's not a cheap city sadly. 

I really have never heard of someone kidnapping a tourist. And far from being targetted as a tourist, in fact you'll be much safer than the locals. I only say this because tourist murder in South Africa are extremely low compared to just about anywhere . Certainly less than happen in Australia where 0.1 out of 100 000 tourists are murdered (taken from a study which I'll google and link if you like). If that rate was applied to South Africa then 10 tourists would be murdered a year. But it's normally less than 1 here. 

Just to show you how much crime here really affects the poor, if the same murder rate that affects the poor affected tourists (34 per 100 000) then you would have something like 3400 tourist murders a year (assuming we get 10 million tourists). Violent crime in South Africa is far less motivated by financial gains that people make out. The SAPS stated that less than 500 murders related to hijackings, housebreak ins , armed robberies etc happen each year. The rest are interpersonal disputes, often drunken and mostly between young black males. Some 80% of murders happening between people who know each other.

Lastly, week to week. Well I wake up, I drink coffee , I go to work. After I often go to have a beer or two at my local. Once or twice a week I'll go out for a meal with friends either at a simple braai at our houses or at a restuarant. I might go catch a rugby or cricket game. Weekends I'll go fishing or golfing etc. I might catch a movie or take a drive out to a game park etc. I mean , I don't know really what you expected to hear here. Life is really just that matter of fact normal. No drama to report. Just relax.


----------



## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

Therooster said:


> Hi. Firstly when thinking of Jhb you need to get some perceptions out of your mind you might be having. While JHB has it's poorer areas and dangerous areas , it is no filthy broken down Lagos. For the most part it's perfectly possible to live there and feel like you were in some city in the U.S.A. and never venture into the dodgy areas. 99% correct except for the razor wire and security companies... but in general the statment is correct.
> 
> To try answer your questions.
> 
> ...


 SNIP/
New Zealander... do lots of research and don't rely on forums only. Make sure you know all the facts.


----------



## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

To whoever snipped the end of my post please inform me as to why 

It was in direct response to the last paragraph of the quoted post. Very few, if any, can afford to have the lifestyle that the paragrpah suggests. By deleting my repsonse it sends a false image to the OP!


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

zambezi.king said:


> To whoever snipped the end of my post please inform me as to why
> 
> It was in direct response to the last paragraph of the quoted post. Very few, if any, can afford to have the lifestyle that the paragrpah suggests. By deleting my repsonse it sends a false image to the OP!



I did as it was irrelevant to the OPs questions

Jo


----------



## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

> please post the link... also kidnappings of tourists for profit in general only happens when a tourist comes out here to meet "businessmen" that they have been conversing with over the internet etc. and it is actually a scam. This is very rare but it has / does happen. You are not a target like you are in south amaerica or PNG... unless of course you walk around with your $5000 camera and large bundles of forex.


http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/1/0/9/{1090A187-AF82-4C69-BA67-4E8CBD6B9722}tandi316.pdf



> true to a certain extent, no-one says any different, it is only the fact that crime has sky rocketed since the early 90's... it may be slightly down depending on who you believe but it is still way out of control and about 10 higher (murder, rape and violent crime) than western Europe.


Actually murder is down by 50% since 1994. Again just ask me for a link and I'll provide. Again using Australia we have less car and house robberies per capita than them. I wouldn't call that a sky rocket so much as a drill. 

Otherwise I agree. Do lots of research but be wary. If anyone is telling you there is anything horrificly scary happening in JHB and it's likely to happen to you, they're probably lying.


----------



## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

zambezi.king said:


> To whoever snipped the end of my post please inform me as to why
> 
> It was in direct response to the last paragraph of the quoted post. Very few, if any, can afford to have the lifestyle that the paragrpah suggests. By deleting my repsonse it sends a false image to the OP!


The guy is coming here to work as an expat. He certainly can easily afford the lifestyle a pleb like me lives.


----------



## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

Therooster said:


> I really have never heard of someone kidnapping a tourist. And far from being targetted as a tourist, in fact you'll be much safer than the locals. I only say this because tourist murder in South Africa are extremely low compared to just about anywhere . Certainly less than happen in Australia where 0.1 out of 100 000 tourists are murdered (taken from a study which I'll google and link if you like). If that rate was applied to South Africa then 10 tourists would be murdered a year. But it's normally less than 1 here.


Thanks for the link, I certainly encourage anyone to read it... Australia is a safe destination, if you get anything else out of the article it is wishful thinking.

As for your paragraph above... using your own "facts" you say that about 1 tourist is murdered a year in SA but in Aus it is 0.1 (ten times less)!!

:focus:


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

One day Rooster you'll manage to stop engineering threads to your favourite hobby of talking statistics (which as everyone knows mean nothing) and violence!! I think they'll be a cheer from everyone who reads the SA forum! Change the record!

Jo


----------



## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

jojo said:


> One day Rooster you'll manage to stop engineering threads to your favourite hobby of talking statistics (which as everyone knows mean nothing) and violence!! I think they'll be a cheer from everyone who reads the SA forum! Change the record!
> 
> Jo


When people are making sensational, unfounded, alarmist and anecdotal claims all I have to defend my perspective is the objective data on hand. Sorry if that's a little "sciency" for your taste.

Else it becomes a "yes, it is","No, it isn't" debate. Which is futile.


----------



## crock (Oct 16, 2010)

*Live in SA for years without serious crime issue*

I've lived in SA my whole life and never had any serious incident.

It is very difficult to give an indication since crime is so random. But we just make sure our house is locked up at night, we keep are car doors locked when we drive and if we go to areas that are a bit dodgy then we just keep our eyes open for anything odd.

I think that 2 weeks of living in Joburg and you will wonder what all the fuss is about.


----------

