# Pro's & Con's living with just a tourista visa



## cowichangang (Aug 11, 2012)

Hola, this is my first posting , so go easy on me, remember, everybody had a first time. We are Canadians in our early 50's, and have decide we have had enough of Canada (BC), and its time to fullfill our dreams of retireing early. Mexico is our first choice, having been there over a dozen times, we still have to narrow down where, but it will be on the Pacific side, with a beach, for sure. So here's the scenerio, if we sell the house, and with our savings, we will have enough to buy a place (probably a condo) in Mexico, and have enough in the bank to draw from to cover our living expenses until our pensions kick in just under 10 years, hence the problem, we won't have enough of a monthly income to qualify for residence status, so the plan is to go back to Canada every 5-6 months for a 2 week visit and then return to Mexico for another 5-6 months and so on and so on. Can anyone tell us of the pro's and con's of doing this, if any. Mucho Gracias.


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## Ken Wood (Oct 22, 2011)

No need for your "first time" disclaimer. Your note gets your situation out there where it's pretty easy to digest. A few things that jump out at me are:

Purchase of property near the beach, by a non-resident, is complicated. I'm not sure if you are determined to buy immediately, rather than rent for a while, but would suggest that you exercise due caution with any purchase of property near the beach. Even if you do eventually purchase a place, a 6 month rental in the area of your purchase might prove to be a good investment, or have you already done this?

For ten years, you are obligating yourself to the twice yearly trip outside the country. That's a huge package that must be adhered to whether you feel like the trip or not. Right now, in Mexico, there does not seem to be any resistance to persons who use the tourists visas as you suggest here, but, again, ten years is a long time, and Mexico is the land of change. 

To live off savings for 10 years would be too frightening a concept for me to face. I'm sure you've done the math, but there are lots of unexpected demons out there. 

Best wishes, and congratulations on the early retirement


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## terrybahena (Oct 3, 2011)

Hi and welcome! I probly don't have any good answers but wanted to say you will love living on the beach in Mexico! We have just been here a little over 2 months and I have zero regrets so far.

You know, the income requirements are not too high, maybe what you think your monthly expenses are would be close to that number? If so you could keep the money in your bank at home and transfer it into your Mexico account monthly. This is just an off the top of me head thought. I am married to a Mexican national, so I did not have to show the income, however we do keep our money in our US bank and make monthly transfers. I'm actually trying to figure out a budget starting this month (August), because in June & July we had so many one time expenses, like furniture. But it doesn't cost too much to live where we are, which is on the Pacific coast. Playa Ventura, a couple hours drive south of Acapulco. This is a tiny town with hardly any expats; a German guy who's been here more than 20 years and I think an Italian couple been here about the same.

Mexico is very different than Calif! The laid back culture sounds wonderful but takes some getting used to, anyway I'm happy for you- and you will LOVE this forum!


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## chapala1 (Aug 4, 2012)

Hi,,,monthly income is not the only way to qualify for a retirement visa. If you have a substantial amount in your savings or other accounts from the sell of your house it will suffice to qualify you for income requirements. A couple that I know personally have been doing this for years,but it doesn't hurt to check into it further. I know that they have automatic transfers to their mexican bank account. 
Don't buy any real estate until at least after one year of living here. I have seen too many people change their mind after the fact, especially about location. Good luck


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## cowichangang (Aug 11, 2012)

Ken Wood said:


> No need for your "first time" disclaimer. Your note gets your situation out there where it's pretty easy to digest. A few things that jump out at me are:
> 
> Purchase of property near the beach, by a non-resident, is complicated. I'm not sure if you are determined to buy immediately, rather than rent for a while, but would suggest that you exercise due caution with any purchase of property near the beach. Even if you do eventually purchase a place, a 6 month rental in the area of your purchase might prove to be a good investment, or have you already done this?
> 
> ...


Hi, don't think buying a condo on the beach should be a problem, we know, and have met lots of people from nob who own, on the beach condo's, and none have 
said it was a problem. As far as leaving Mexico twice a year, once would be July/August, when its 80 degrees back home in BC Canada, mainly to visit with family and friends, do any legal stuff etc, and the other would be January/February to Hawaii or California for a week for a holiday. Our living costs are low as we don't drink or smoke, or go to fancy restaurants etc. for the last ten years we have spent a 2-4 weeks a year in Mexico, Ixtapa, PV, Manzanillo, Melaque, Porto Escondido, so know what things cost in those type places, which is how we know we can afford to do this with the finances we have. If things change with the 180 day rule, then we'll have to cross that bridge when it happens, all I know is we just can't stand living in Canada anymore, and we're not getting any younger.


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## conklinwh (Dec 19, 2009)

Even though you have vacationed in Mexico for many years, there is a big difference between 2-3 week vacations and basically full time living.
You are right in that using the trust/lease approach at the beach is done a lot successfully, but you will be committing yourself to a place without really experiencing it and sales may take awhile if doesn't work.
I am strongly in the group that feels that you should experience long term residence before even thinking of buying. BTW, this could be rental or it could be house sitting especially if off season.
Going back to your 1st question. You could do the FMM approach unless the new rules change it. We used FMM's for almost 7 years before getting visas including buying and building as well as initially renting.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

I am also in my early 50s. I moved to Mexico in 2009 after 12 years of planning, saving and investing. I sold my house in 2009 (miracle!) and with those earnings plus my modest portfolio I made the move.

I agree with those that say rent first. After huge amounts of thought and research, we (I got married in March, so now it's 'we', no longer 'I') have decided to continue renting. We are still refining our idea of where we want to live here in Guanajuato even after living in 3 rentals in 3 different areas of the city.

Tying your money up in a house/condo locks you in a little bit. The fact that you still haven't decided in what city you want to live makes me urge you even more to strongly consider renting first. If you decide after a year that maybe you really preferred Puerto Vallarta instead of Manzanillo or vice versa, you can make the change more easily. At least give some thought to what folks here are saying about renting first. Plus, it is a nice feeling knowing that you have a financial cushion under you; at least for me it is.

I did the FMM thing for nearly 3 years until finally getting a rentista visa this spring. It wasn't any problem. 

Please note that policies vary from office to office in immigration (INM) as far as requirements for a visa. In nearby San Miguel de Allende where the nearest INM office is located they don't care about a large account balance as mentioned by chapala1. They only accept proof of 3 monthly deposits of $1200 each month -- no ifs ands or buts. 

In any case, good luck and congratulations on getting out of the rat race earlier than later!


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

circle110 said:


> ...
> Please note that policies vary from office to office in immigration (INM) as far as requirements for a visa. In nearby San Miguel de Allende where the nearest INM office is located they don't care about a large account balance as mentioned by chapala1. They only accept proof of 3 monthly deposits of $1200 each month -- no ifs ands or buts.
> 
> In any case, good luck and congratulations on getting out of the rat race earlier than later!


Note that if you have cash but not income, you can just get two accounts and transfer money every month. Imigracion only looks for the deposits, they don't care where it comes from.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

TundraGreen said:


> Note that if you have cash but not income, you can just get two accounts and transfer money every month. Imigracion only looks for the deposits, they don't care where it comes from.


That's true.

There is a rumor amongst expats here in Guanajuato that the local INM office has declared that under the new rules you will have to have a letter from an official at your bank stating where the income comes from. It sounds a little weird and I hope it's not true and is just that -- a rumor.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

For someone like the OP who is planning to live in Mexico for almost 10 years on a tourist visa, would he or she encounter any difficulties that someone on a resident visa would not? I was thinking along the lines of opening a Mexican bank account. When I applied for mine a few years ago, I had to present my FM3 as part of the application process. Also, someone on a tourist visa would not be eligible for an INAPAM discount care when turning 60.


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## chapala1 (Aug 4, 2012)

If they have money in the bank they can get a "FM3" now its called something else.
True,,you cannot open a bank account without the FM3. I lived here 3 years with FM3 Living just with my debit card from the states. Now I have a Mexican account also.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

chapala1 said:


> If they have money in the bank they can get a "FM3" now its called something else.
> True,,you cannot open a bank account without the FM3. I lived here 3 years with FM3 Living just with my debit card from the states. Now I have a Mexican account also.


Out of curiosity, are you living in Mexico or the Philippines?


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

I opened my account at Bancomer with just an FMM and passport so it is possible, at least at some branches.

In any case, the OPs should be able to open a second account and transfer in the requisite amount each month for 3 months if they wish to qualify for a rentista visa. 

As I think about it, that is essentially what I do. I have my money in an investment account which doesn't have ATM access. I transfer what I need each month to a checking account and withdraw via ATM from there. I showed INM the last 3 statements from that checking account as 'proof of income'. The OPs can do something similar if they wish to have no-inmigrantes instead of just FMMs.


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## chapala1 (Aug 4, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> Out of curiosity, are you living in Mexico or the Philippines?


living in Mexico for the moment going back to the Phils in 3 weeks


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## Souper (Nov 2, 2011)

I also opened a bank account with an FMM at Bancomer.


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## cowichangang (Aug 11, 2012)

Gracias to those who have replied the original question, instead or replying to each comment, I will try to do it it one post. I understand those who say to rent first, as we may not like it, but trust me, when we dicide on where to actualy live, there will be alot of time spent weighing the pros and cons of each place. It would only be someplace we have been, and right now Manzanillo is top of the list, we have been there 5 times, 3 times in the last 5 years, for a month each time, not only is the airport close for flying back to Canada, but the fact that it is so Americanized, which to us is a bonus, WalMart, KFC, Burger King, Subway, Office Depot, Office Max etc, and Sam's Club and Home Depot are both under construction. Manzanillo is more of a working class city, only once have we been asked for a handout, and that was at the bustop in front of Walmart by a guy older than dirt. Almost everything is within walking distance to the area we would be living, and if not, the bus is cheap, (like me). Does the "transfer money to a bank account for 3 months thing to show an income really work? They don't catch on? , or could they care less?, thats the thing that concerns me, is what if you do that and they find out its not an actual income? And so many people speak at least a little English. At least enough that we never had a problem, unlike some of the other places we have been in Mexico.


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## chapala1 (Aug 4, 2012)

They don't really care. I don't know if the wording in the requirements has changed but it used to be " combined income and or savings. As i stated before I know a couple that are living in Mexico from the equity of their house in Canada. The y are eligible for a pension in 1 one year.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

No, they don't ask specifically where it comes from and don't ask for proof of its origin. They just asked me if it was consistent and, of course, I said yes and that was good enough for them.

As far as the specifics of the requirements, it is different in every office and sometimes even between officers in the same office. The written law is one thing and its interpretation in each INM location is sometimes another thing altogether. I stand by my advice to check at your local office first to be sure about a lump sum making you eligible for a visa.

I showed INM in San Miguel my total account balance and they looked at me and said, "We don't care about this, it doesn't matter. We only accept proof of three monthly deposits of $1200, nothing else." But yet it worked for chapal1's friends. You never know.


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## Belizegirl (Oct 21, 2010)

You can also open a bank account at Santander with only a FMM.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Belizegirl said:


> You can also open a bank account at Santander with only a FMM.


Not at the Santander branch in Mexico City where I have my account.


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## chapala1 (Aug 4, 2012)

circle110 said:


> No, they don't ask specifically where it comes from and don't ask for proof of its origin. They just asked me if it was consistent and, of course, I said yes and that was good enough for them.
> 
> As far as the specifics of the requirements, it is different in every office and sometimes even between officers in the same office. The written law is one thing and its interpretation in each INM location is sometimes another thing altogether. I stand by my advice to check at your local office first to be sure about a lump sum making you eligible for a visa.
> 
> I showed INM in San Miguel my total account balance and they looked at me and said, "We don't care about this, it doesn't matter. We only accept proof of three monthly deposits of $1200, nothing else." But yet it worked for chapal1's friends. You never know.


I should make it clear that my friends make a monthly transfer from savings to checking. On the checking account it appears as a deposit. That is all they are interested in in immigration.


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## Ken Wood (Oct 22, 2011)

What we always seem to circle back to is "the person behind the desk" at the time we ask our question. I agree with Isla's comment above. In the Ban Bajaio branch we are using, I was not even entitled to eye contact until I had a card verifying something beyond tourist status. While this is not true in every case with every bank, it is something that must be considered before punking down a big chunk of savings based on what one official in one bank says. 

If you're at all into country music, you'll remember the Gatlin Brothers said "It don't matter at all where you've been before, California's a brand new game." The same can be said of Mexico, chuck all your ideas of how things should be out the window. Don't let someone guide you down a dead end street unless it is someone close enough to you that you would trust them with your chidren. 

The OP seems to have friends in place here who can help with the transition, but, the varied comments from many long time residents here suggests that a few surprises along the way should certainly be expected.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

chapala1 said:


> I should make it clear that my friends make a monthly transfer from savings to checking. On the checking account it appears as a deposit. That is all they are interested in in immigration.


Ah, OK, now I understand. I see no reason why the OPs can't do just that very thing if they wish to have visas.

I agree with Ken Wood, Mexico is a land of surprises. It appears that bank branches are as squirrely as INM offices with their regulations. On our electric bill it says you can pay at La Commercial Mexicana but here in Guanajuato one Commercial will accept payment and the other won't. Mexico is a place by place and case by case kind of country.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Yes, it would probably work to be in the country on an FMM, leaving twice yearly. Unless someone near where you lived turned you in. But that's a slim possibility. Living in Mexico on the FMM is a violation of the intent of the law, however. I always suggest to people that if they like Mexico, if they like and respect Mexicans ... they should respect them enough to obey the laws of the country.


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## chapala1 (Aug 4, 2012)

Sorry I don't know what you mean by FMM,can you explain?


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

Forma Migratoria Multiple. It is basically what you could call a "tourist visa" for Mexico, valid for 180 days and not renewable although in practice this can be done: before your 180 days are up, one can turn in their FMM at the border, cross over the border and return and get a new one for another 180 days. Many people do this although, as Longford says, it is not quite using the FMM in the sense that it was intended. For the time being, even though Mexico is aware that people do so, INM isn't doing anything to stop folks from doing it.


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## chapala1 (Aug 4, 2012)

Thanks, I know what it is now..Almost the same as for Philippines and Thailand and people do the same there. Exit one day before it expires and return the next or same day for a new one . Some have been doing it for years because of not having income requirements.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Longford said:


> Yes, it would probably work to be in the country on an FMM, leaving twice yearly. Unless someone near where you lived turned you in. But that's a slim possibility. Living in Mexico on the FMM is a violation of the intent of the law, however. I always suggest to people that if they like Mexico, if they like and respect Mexicans ... they should respect them enough to obey the laws of the country.


If *** believes using an FMM to live in Mexico for 180 days then leave the country and return in a day or two on a new FMM is against the law I wish he would point out the Mexican Gov. website that cites that law...

Seems funny that in an recent interview the Director of Immigration in San Miguel de Allende he stated there was no problem for foreigners to do a 180 day turnaround ...


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## suze62 (Aug 23, 2012)

*living in mexico*

Hi there
I moved to ixtapa/zih last oct. Found a condo last may whilst on vacation, was not planned. Went home to Canada, sold my house in 1 day in order to do this. Gave up my work, said goodbye to family and friends. I have not had 1 regret about the move.
I just turned 50! My advise like everyone else...rent first as i made the mistake of purchasing..but looking back..in retrospect, my life now would never have turned out the way it has had i not bought my condo.
I have since moved to a surfing town north of Ixtapa and am renting a house for $200 a month. I now have income from renting my condo to tourists.
also got an FM3 Visa...makes life easier. I will go back once a year for a month to visit my family.
If you have a dream..follow your heart...things always work out.
Never in my life did i plan on this early a retirement.
Good luck with it all.


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

suze62 said:


> Hi there
> I moved to ixtapa/zih last oct. Found a condo last may whilst on vacation, was not planned. Went home to Canada, sold my house in 1 day in order to do this. Gave up my work, said goodbye to family and friends. I have not had 1 regret about the move.
> I just turned 50! My advise like everyone else...rent first as i made the mistake of purchasing..but looking back..in retrospect, my life now would never have turned out the way it has had i not bought my condo.
> I have since moved to a surfing town north of Ixtapa and am renting a house for $200 a month. I now have income from renting my condo to tourists.
> ...


Congratulations on following your dream. Enjoy!


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

I can't think of any advantage of tying yourself down to the obligation of leaving the country every 180 days (and note that that's not every six months, it's a bit less). You may be young and strong now, but what if one of you breaks a leg or gets a violent stomach flu the day before you’re scheduled to leave, or finds themselves post-surgical and still in hospital when the deadline is about to run out? Or the global economy gets much worse over the next 10 years, and you have trouble financing the twice-yearly trips?

I'm not saying this from any fount of ancient wisdom—I'm the same age as you—but from experience of the curves that life can throw at us when we least expect it. To me the money and time spent on getting a resident visa would be well worth it. I suggest you stop being 180-day tourists and apply for an FM3—or whatever it's called by that time—at the point when you have decided in what city or town you’re going to settle down.


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## sunnyvmx (Mar 14, 2010)

My neighbor and I are planning a run for the border for her 180 day permit. We will bus overnight to Chetumal and cross the border to bus to Belize City and take a water taxi to the town of Caye Caulker on an island. She has never snorkeled so she's in for a treat and I can't wait to eat lobster. We will test migration to see if she can pass the income requirement next year for her FM3, but for now, whoopeee.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Try this and report back:

Inform the INM supervisor at the border that you've been residing in Mexico with a FMM for 180 days and intend to live in Mexico indefinitely and, therefore you want a new FMM .. To allow you to remain in Mexico as a resident. Not as a tourist.

Thanks.


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## stilltraveling (May 7, 2012)

sunnyvmx said:


> My neighbor and I are planning a run for the border for her 180 day permit. We will bus overnight to Chetumal and cross the border to bus to Belize City and take a water taxi to the town of Caye Caulker on an island. She has never snorkeled so she's in for a treat and I can't wait to eat lobster. We will test migration to see if she can pass the income requirement next year for her FM3, but for now, whoopeee.


That's a nice run, but I prefer San Pedro over Caye Caulker. I guess it depends on what you want to do. 

I'm not sure where you're departing from, but Aeromexico and Interjet fly from the capital to Chetumal for only 400 pesos more than the bus ticket. That's 400 pesos to shave 18 hours off your trip (18 hours you would have spent riding on a bus all night). 

Nothing feels longer than the bus from Chetumal to Mexico City after a relaxing week in Ambergris Caye.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

The FMM is not a resident visa and cannot be used as such. Among other types, it is a tourist permit.
Resident visas are issued for five years and have annual renewals. The initial application requires that you meet financial and other requirements.


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## tepetapan (Sep 30, 2010)

Try this: Get your 180 day permit, Enter Mexico and have some fun. Enjoy the beach, weather, food and great people for no less than 150 days. Then make a decision if you want to upgrade your status, make a 24 hour turnaround run or go back for a week or two. Do not let this 180 day thing dictate your life. If you can manage to put off making a decision until the 165 to 170 day mark you are definitely made for Mexico. Putting off making decisions until the last possible minute is a Mexican way of living.
The very LAST thing you want to do is talk to immigration about your plans, mainly because you really should not have any plans besides to enjoy yourself.


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## kito1 (Aug 4, 2012)

I plan on doing the tourist visa the first year because I am not sure that I will want to be there longer than that. If I decide that I love it, I will possibly do residency at that point, assuming I can at my age..... (what is the age btw?) As for the income requirements, I have the passive income from 2 different angles both of which are greater than $1200/month, but from what I have been reading here, even someone who didn't can easily bypass that detail by transferring money around to show that they do.

For years, no matter where I have traveled I still come back to the US ever 2 or 3 months to visit family and that will probably continue. I can't imagine not wanting to go back to the USA for a few days ever so often so I can't see that this is a bad thing having to leave every 6 months. For several years I have averaged 100K miles a year on a plane and can't imagine that this will change anytime soon! I love to travel and see new places. Having said this, if I find I really love Mexico and want to stay there for years, I am sure that there are benefits to getting residency also.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

kito1 said:


> I plan on doing the tourist visa the first year because I am not sure that I will want to be there longer than that. If I decide that I love it, I will possibly do residency at that point, assuming I can at my age..... (what is the age btw?)


There are no age requirements for a residence visa.


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

kito1 said:


> I plan on doing the tourist visa the first year because I am not sure that I will want to be there longer than that. If I decide that I love it, I will possibly do residency at that point, assuming I can at my age..... (what is the age btw?) As for the income requirements, I have the passive income from 2 different angles both of which are greater than $1200/month, but from what I have been reading here, even someone who didn't can easily bypass that detail by transferring money around to show that they do.
> 
> For years, no matter where I have traveled I still come back to the US ever 2 or 3 months to visit family and that will probably continue. I can't imagine not wanting to go back to the USA for a few days ever so often so I can't see that this is a bad thing having to leave every 6 months. For several years I have averaged 100K miles a year on a plane and can't imagine that this will change anytime soon! I love to travel and see new places. Having said this, if I find I really love Mexico and want to stay there for years, I am sure that there are benefits to getting residency also.


I probably will never travel that much, (100k miles) since i hate being confined inside an airplane, but i share that desire to revisit the USA on a regular basis.

If nothing else, i would want at least 1-2 years of comparing my experiences in Mexico to what is available in the US.

I plan to eventually look forward to living in Mexico year-round, but i think it will take a while to adopt that attitude fully.

Meanwhile, i want to keep exploring my options.
And as i go, i salute those of you have found your dream.
It takes some big cajones to radically change your life, especially when your loved ones and friends think you are crazy.

Live long and prosper.


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

Another reason to live on a tourist card is now it may be the only option for some.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

But it may not be as easy, as income requirements may apply for 180 day permits.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

RVGRINGO said:


> But it may not be as easy, as income requirements may apply for 180 day permits.


They sure won't ask tourists for income info .... but the auto 180 days may go away?


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## vantexan (Sep 4, 2011)

sparks said:


> They sure won't ask tourists for income info .... but the auto 180 days may go away?


Could it be that the new 6 month option is renewable within the country but if on tourist card will have to exit, then return?


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## mickisue1 (Mar 10, 2012)

Based on my reading of the translation of the new law, there will be an automatic 30 day tourist visa, assuming the person meets the requirements for entering the country in the first place

For a 180 day, based on the rate of exchange as of Friday, here's the deal: the requirement for a six month's visa is for savings or income less than 7 months (200 days of the DF minimum), or $946/month.


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## edgeee (Jun 21, 2012)

Thank goodness, i can still visit long enough to decide i never want to come back.
Isn't tourism a wonderful thing.

On the other hand i might like it so much i want to return.
Then what? Well i could beg and grovel but i doubt it would help.
Maybe i should just stay in the USA and whither away.


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