# Thinking of moving to Germany



## LiebeDeutsch

New to the forums, glad to find a place to talk about expat issues! I am 36, University educated (in America) and thinking of moving to Germany. I was born in Germany to American parents, but left the country before I could even remember being there. Parents divorced when I was very young (again, before I can even remember) and my father lived in Germany when he was in the Army. My brother later did the same as part of the Air Force.

I have visited Germany once to see my father and twice to see my brother. The last visit was in 1995 and I am now here in Germany until Nov. 10th visiting my German boyfriend who has lived here all his life.

He would like me to move to Germany and I am considering it, but it's quite a daunting task. I would need to learn the language of course and also see about getting my M.A. in Counseling Psychology certified as appropriate to practice here. Apparently, that is a quite a difficult endeavor. It's all a bit much, I must admit. The regulations here far outweigh any in America. I am not commenting on this negatively by the way, just making a statement regarding the ease of things in the US versus here. 

In any case, I am researching a possible move here so I look forward to talking with all of you!


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## scotswahae

Hi,
Before you make any move you should really investigate if your degree would qualify you to work in your field of expertise. I found the language difficult to learn and even harder to write. I worked always in English as there are many international companies where this is the norm. You might want to check out companies like Siemens if they would want anyonein their training and development department as your qualification might be useful in the management development area. 
It is a daunting task but there are many plusses about Germany.
Hope this helps and good luck with your decision


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## MovingOUTofFrance

I've lived in the US and have to admit its the easiest country in the world probably. UK is easy too but doesn't excite me for other reasons. France (where I live now) is the most complicated of all but I don't think Germany is that difficult really. They are very business friendly and almost everyone in Berlin speaks English (it's NOT the same in Paris). I don't think you should worry about ease of doing things in Germany, it's a highly well organized country and lot of things work much better in Germany than elsewhere in Europe. I know that if you study in Germany that opens up many doors for you - it's a good way to settle in and you will learn the system too - don't let it scare you because it's really not that difficult as it seems like...i'm sure Germany is definitely way easier than France or Italy.

Btw...i've moved countries 4 times already....so i'm used to it....nothing is so difficult if you really want to do it.


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## LiebeDeutsch

MovingOUTofFrance said:


> I've lived in the US and have to admit its the easiest country in the world probably. UK is easy too but doesn't excite me for other reasons. France (where I live now) is the most complicated of all but I don't think Germany is that difficult really. They are very business friendly and almost everyone in Berlin speaks English (it's NOT the same in Paris). I don't think you should worry about ease of doing things in Germany, it's a highly well organized country and lot of things work much better in Germany than elsewhere in Europe.


The concern over the ease of doing things in Germany comes from my having researched the rules on the acceptance of my U.S. graduate degrees as well as what I would need to do to live and work there. I have no fears regarding ease of living there, it's more of a sense of knowing that the bureaucratic issues present regarding my ability to work will be difficult to overcome and since I don't have the financial ability to not work, it could be an issue.

Of course, many things can be overcome, but whether they can be overcome in a timely enough manner to make it worthwhile to move is another matter. I don't have the option to study the language for a year or two in country to become proficient enough to be allowed to work. I have to hit the ground running with a job in place if I'm going to move there.

As for studying in Germany (apart from studying the language of course), I don't care to do that. I'm 36 years old and have four university degrees - two undergrad, two graduate. I am done with school and happily so. 

I know there are many English-friendly (if you will) cities in Germany, but I would not be living in one of the bigger cities, I would be living in a smaller village with my boyfriend. There are many things for me to consider and I am doing that. 

I appreciate the advice though, really! I don't mean to sound ungrateful so I hope it's not taken that way. It's simply that at my age and with the financial obligations I have, there are things I have to be cognizant of that may not apply to others who are younger and/or do not have the student loan debt I have, etc.


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## LiebeDeutsch

> Hi,
> Before you make any move you should really investigate if your degree would qualify you to work in your field of expertise.


I'm aware of that, which is why I stated in my message that I would "see about getting my M.A. in Counseling Psychology certified as appropriate to practice here." I've already looked into the rules and regulations concerning working in my field and it is definitely quite the task. 



> You might want to check out companies like Siemens if they would want anyonein their training and development department as your qualification might be useful in the management development area.
> It is a daunting task but there are many plusses about Germany.
> Hope this helps and good luck with your decision


Thank you for the suggestion of Siemens and other such companies, I appreciate that! It is definitely a daunting task, but as you said there are many plusses to Germany and I think I could enjoy living there. I just have to see if certain hurdles can be cleared such as my professional qualifications and the language. I can read and write German though probably not at a great proficiency level if tested, but speaking and understanding it when spoken to are hugely difficult for me. 

We will see what happens. Moving to Germany is something I'm floating out there right now and if it works out, that's great. If not, that's OK too. There are other options for my boyfriend and myself to be together. 

Thanks again for the advice!


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## MovingOUTofFrance

Well i dont know your financial situation so can't comment on that really. Seems like you dont have a visa issue at least so not sure what other bureaucracy issues you could be facing except for the fact that your US degrees arent accepted in Europe. I am incidentally 36 too and have four degrees as well including two masters one from the US and another from Europe as well as a bachelors and associate degree, so i understand very well how you might hate the thought of stepping back in a classroom. But to be honest you do sound very negative about all this, must you find a job in your field? Cant u do something else and be happy just enjoying life? The cost of living in a small german town is wayyyy less than any city in the US or even most other cities in Europe. And what are you going to do by staying in the US and making a lot of money there? You would buy a property with a mortgage and then comes the next crash and u will be in negative equity like everyone else right now. Life is very stressful in the US everyone has huge levels of debt and no security at all...At least in Germany housing is more stable and the economy is not as over inflated built on too much credit and u get loads of free benefits. As for the language, ive studied french and a bit of german and I can tell u that german is a lot easier than french and very much like english. If you made an effort i see no reason why you cant learn to at least expresss yourself in 3 months.

Sorry but I just find it very wrong when people have to move to another country purely based on job prospects and financial reasons.....one should move countries because they want to really live there and enjoy the experience and not worry about things like job prospects....where there is a will there is a way!!


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## LiebeDeutsch

MovingOUTofFrance said:


> Well i dont know your financial situation so can't comment on that really. Seems like you dont have a visa issue at least so not sure what other bureaucracy issues you could be facing except for the fact that your US degrees arent accepted in Europe. I am incidentally 36 too and have four degrees as well including two masters one from the US and another from Europe as well as a bachelors and associate degree, so i understand very well how you might hate the thought of stepping back in a classroom. But to be honest you do sound very negative about all this, must you find a job in your field? Cant u do something else and be happy just enjoying life?


I am not negative, just practical. No, I can't do something else with my career because I switched from a very stressful career to do what I do now simply because it's my passion in life. I went from being a lawyer to a therapist.

It's not purely about the money for me, I could make more being an attorney than I can being a therapist, but being a counselor is, as I said, my passion. I put the time and effort into going back to school for it and it's something that makes me happy in life.

Having my degree accepted and being able to practice counseling in Germany is the biggest issue. I would like to be able to say that I can do something else and just enjoy life, but with my crushing student loan debt, that is simply not possible. I have to be able to work. I wish that wasn't the case, but it is. Therefore, I found something I enjoy doing and have a passion for with my career so I can pay that debt and still be happy. 

If I can make living in Germany work for me (pardon the pun) then I will do so. If I can't, it's OK. But giving up the profession I worked hard to get into and that pays the bills just so I can move to a foreign country doesn't make sense on a number of levels. Again, not negative, just practical.

I'm really glad you've been able to make it work for you Movingoutoffrance. Really, I think it's wonderful that you've been happy with the way you've structured your life. Where there's a will, there's a way is a wonderful concept, but the way doesn't always fit the needs of each person. I could dump my profession and move to Germany, live with my boyfriend in a small village, work in any job I might be able to get (not likely given the restrictions on working there if you're a foreigner) and struggle to pay the bills. That scenario simply isn't appealing to me. It's certainly one way to achieve moving to Germany, but those kinds of sacrifices wouldn't be worth it to me and actually wouldn't work in the long-term because of how much money I must make to pay the student loans. That's just the reality of my life and I've accepted that.

I posted originally because I might like to live in Germany. I'm not desperate enough to make that happen by means that would cause financial disaster and career dissatisfaction. If I can make it work in the ways it needs to work to make it worthwhile to me, then all the better! If not, I am fine where I am too.


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## ALKB

LiebeDeutsch said:


> I am not negative, just practical. No, I can't do something else with my career because I switched from a very stressful career to do what I do now simply because it's my passion in life. I went from being a lawyer to a therapist.
> 
> It's not purely about the money for me, I could make more being an attorney than I can being a therapist, but being a counselor is, as I said, my passion. I put the time and effort into going back to school for it and it's something that makes me happy in life.
> 
> Having my degree accepted and being able to practice counseling in Germany is the biggest issue. I would like to be able to say that I can do something else and just enjoy life, but with my crushing student loan debt, that is simply not possible. I have to be able to work. I wish that wasn't the case, but it is. Therefore, I found something I enjoy doing and have a passion for with my career so I can pay that debt and still be happy.
> 
> If I can make living in Germany work for me (pardon the pun) then I will do so. If I can't, it's OK. But giving up the profession I worked hard to get into and that pays the bills just so I can move to a foreign country doesn't make sense on a number of levels. Again, not negative, just practical.
> 
> I'm really glad you've been able to make it work for you Movingoutoffrance. Really, I think it's wonderful that you've been happy with the way you've structured your life. Where there's a will, there's a way is a wonderful concept, but the way doesn't always fit the needs of each person. I could dump my profession and move to Germany, live with my boyfriend in a small village, work in any job I might be able to get (not likely given the restrictions on working there if you're a foreigner) and struggle to pay the bills. That scenario simply isn't appealing to me. It's certainly one way to achieve moving to Germany, but those kinds of sacrifices wouldn't be worth it to me and actually wouldn't work in the long-term because of how much money I must make to pay the student loans. That's just the reality of my life and I've accepted that.
> 
> I posted originally because I might like to live in Germany. I'm not desperate enough to make that happen by means that would cause financial disaster and career dissatisfaction. If I can make it work in the ways it needs to work to make it worthwhile to me, then all the better! If not, I am fine where I am too.


Since there is no girlfriend/boyfriend visa, you'd either have to marry your boyfriend or be sponsored by an employer, which, quite frankly, is unlikely to happen in a small village.

There is a demand for English-speaking counselors in the big cities, as expats need counselling, too and are often waiting for months and months to get an appointment with one of the few therapists who are truly proficient in English.

Could your boyfriend move to a city for you? After all, you are considering a cross-continental move for him.


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## MovingOUTofFrance

LiebeDeutsch said:


> Having my degree accepted and being able to practice counseling in Germany is the biggest issue. I would like to be able to say that I can do something else and just enjoy life, but with my crushing student loan debt, that is simply not possible. I have to be able to work. I wish that wasn't the case, but it is. Therefore, I found something I enjoy doing and have a passion for with my career so I can pay that debt and still be happy.
> 
> If I can make living in Germany work for me (pardon the pun) then I will do so. If I can't, it's OK. But giving up the profession I worked hard to get into and that pays the bills just so I can move to a foreign country doesn't make sense on a number of levels. Again, not negative, just practical.
> 
> I'm really glad you've been able to make it work for you Movingoutoffrance. Really, I think it's wonderful that you've been happy with the way you've structured your life. Where there's a will, there's a way is a wonderful concept, but the way doesn't always fit the needs of each person. I could dump my profession and move to Germany, live with my boyfriend in a small village, work in any job I might be able to get (not likely given the restrictions on working there if you're a foreigner) and struggle to pay the bills. That scenario simply isn't appealing to me. It's certainly one way to achieve moving to Germany, but those kinds of sacrifices wouldn't be worth it to me and actually wouldn't work in the long-term because of how much money I must make to pay the student loans. That's just the reality of my life and I've accepted that.
> 
> I posted originally because I might like to live in Germany. I'm not desperate enough to make that happen by means that would cause financial disaster and career dissatisfaction. If I can make it work in the ways it needs to work to make it worthwhile to me, then all the better! If not, I am fine where I am too.


You can't just HAVE your US degree accepted in Germany and get a job there - the laws in Germany are different and you have to accept that as well. Seems like you are really conflicted - on one hand you want to move to Germany, on the other hand you say you are happy where you are, then again you don't sound too convinced about your boyfriend - saying he lives in a small town where your career options are ruined anyway and on the other hand if you both really loved each other then you would make sacrifices and compromises to be together one way or the other no?

Listen - weigh out all your options, write them down on a paper see what works and what doesn't work for you then take the plunge....and don't look back. Research the study options carefully in Germany that will enable you to get your US degree upto their level and find a job successfully....and if you really think it's tooooo much of a hassle and not worth it then dump your German bf and find someone locally and be happy with him...LOL. I've been in the situation before where I had to decide between moving around the world for a Partner vs. staying where things work better for me - I have moved around for a partner only to find out that it may or may not last forever and then you are left with nothing.


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## LiebeDeutsch

ALKB said:


> Since there is no girlfriend/boyfriend visa, you'd either have to marry your boyfriend or be sponsored by an employer, which, quite frankly, is unlikely to happen in a small village.
> 
> There is a demand for English-speaking counselors in the big cities, as expats need counselling, too and are often waiting for months and months to get an appointment with one of the few therapists who are truly proficient in English.
> 
> Could your boyfriend move to a city for you? After all, you are considering a cross-continental move for him.


That is a possibility and one I will look into! Glad to hear there's a demand for English-speaking therapists, that is good to know. Thanks for the reply ALKB!


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## LiebeDeutsch

MovingOUTofFrance said:


> You can't just HAVE your US degree accepted in Germany and get a job there - the laws in Germany are different and you have to accept that as well.


As I stated previously, I am well aware that just having my US degree accepted is not going to happen. I've already looked into what it takes to make that happen, hence my mentioning the work-related issues to begin with.



> Seems like you are really conflicted - on one hand you want to move to Germany, on the other hand you say you are happy where you are, then again you don't sound too convinced about your boyfriend - saying he lives in a small town where your career options are ruined anyway and on the other hand if you both really loved each other then you would make sacrifices and compromises to be together one way or the other no?


Actually, I'm not conflicted at all. If I can make it work to move to Germany, I'll do so. If not, I won't. Really not a conflict at all. As for my boyfriend, we are both willing to make sacrifices and compromises for each other and we're discussing exactly what those will be. That's a private matter between us, but the point being is that we're committed to making it work for us both.



> Listen - weigh out all your options, write them down on a paper see what works and what doesn't work for you then take the plunge....and don't look back. Research the study options carefully in Germany that will enable you to get your US degree upto their level and find a job successfully....and if you really think it's tooooo much of a hassle and not worth it then dump your German bf and find someone locally and be happy with him...LOL. I've been in the situation before where I had to decide between moving around the world for a Partner vs. staying where things work better for me - I have moved around for a partner only to find out that it may or may not last forever and then you are left with nothing.


I've already researched what it would take to get my US degree up to their level and what it would take to live in Germany. I'm not the type of person who doesn't bother with the research when considering things like this. I know what it would take and I may or may not be able to meet those requirements hence my discussing the job issues that make it difficult to move there in the first place.

Sorry to hear things didn't work out for you with your partner. Shame.


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## LiebeDeutsch

I may not be around much in the next couple of months to reply to any further postings, I'm doing a lot of traveling and super busy with work. But just wanted to take a minute to say thanks for everyone's input on my thread. I appreciate it!


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