# Mexico peso drop



## Guest

Feeling the pain yet of the Mexican peso losing over 10% of its value against the USD in the past month?

Other posters have asked about moving money to MX, etc because they are concerned about receiving fewer pesos for their USD, but there is a much easier solution if you want to do something else as protection against the USD / peso exchange rate. 

Buy the *FXM* exchange traded fund (ETF) , and maintain your money in the US. In effect, you are converting your USD into Mexican pesos, and should the exchange rate continue to drop, you will gain. If not, welcome to one of the hazards of expat life. I don't think the peso has become more valuable, I think the USD is losing its appeal, and reality there is setting in.


Note to mod: I do agree with deleting duplicate threads, but at least one of the original threads should be maintained, right?


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## circle110

GringoCarlos, I am a little confused about your terminology. 

During my 3 years living here the peso/dollar exchange rate has hovered around 12 pesos to the dollar with exchanges as low as 11 and as high as 14. Just a couple weeks ago I saw banks advertising 14. Now it appears to have dropped back some to under 12.8. 

When you say the "peso drop" and talk of its value losing 10% against the dollar that would mean its value falls against the dollar and the pesos per dollar number would go up (if pesos are weak you can buy more with your dollars). If the peso rises against the dollar then the number of pesos per dollar would go down (peso is strong so you can buy less pesos with your dollars). 

So, a drop in peso value is _good_ for those of us who hold our money in dollars because we can buy more pesos with each dollar.

You are saying a "peso drop" is something to protect against and that is what is confusing to me.


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## HolyMole

circle110 said:


> GringoCarlos, I am a little confused about your terminology.
> 
> During my 3 years living here the peso/dollar exchange rate has hovered around 12 pesos to the dollar with exchanges as low as 11 and as high as 14. Just a couple weeks ago I saw banks advertising 14. Now it appears to have dropped back some to under 12.8.
> 
> When you say the "peso drop" and talk of its value losing 10% against the dollar that would mean its value falls against the dollar and the pesos per dollar number would go up (if pesos are weak you can buy more with your dollars). If the peso rises against the dollar then the number of pesos per dollar would go down (peso is strong so you can buy less pesos with your dollars).
> 
> So, a drop in peso value is _good_ for those of us who hold our money in dollars because we can buy more pesos with each dollar.
> 
> You are saying a "peso drop" is something to protect against and that is what is confusing to me.


Took the words out of my mouth, Circle 110. It's the US (and, by association, the Canadian) dollar that are weak, not the peso. The peso has RISEN in value, meaning you get less pesos per US dollar.


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## chicois8

And by Tuesday it will probably be above 13 again...........


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## RVGRINGO

Note also that the prices in Mexico have increased from 8-10% this winter, since so much product and raw materials come from the US and are paid for in dollars. So, we get hit twice in these fluctuations, as the increased prices never go back down.


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## sparks

US stock market goes up and you get less pesos to the dollar ... at least that's the way it's been for the last year or so


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## circle110

sparks said:


> US stock market goes up and you get less pesos to the dollar ... at least that's the way it's been for the last year or so


That isn't so terrible for those of us who have our money in the US market because our net worth goes up even as our buying power with pesos goes down. However, for those who receive a set pension or Social Security, it kind of stinks.


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## RVGRINGO

It stinks. The investments went south a long time ago. Interest income is almost nil and pensions and SS sure aren't keeping up. Sure hope we don't live to 100.


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## Isla Verde

RVGRINGO said:


> . . . SS sure aren't keeping up.


For the first time in several years, those of us on US SS pensions got a COL increase in our monthly checks. It's not that much in dollars but when turned into pesos, it's a nice little addition to my monthly income.


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## RVGRINGO

Remember, you youngsters get much larger SS payments than we old timers. It is based upon wages way back when. If you live long enough, you'll see what happens as inflation really outpaces your SS and pension income. Many of us are of a generation that only had one breadwinner in the home; the husband, and the wife raised children and took care of the household needs. It is the way it was and it worked just fine until the world changed. It isn't fun at all any more.


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## Isla Verde

RVGRINGO said:


> Remember, you youngsters get much larger SS payments than we old timers. It is based upon wages way back when. If you live long enough, you'll see what happens as inflation really outpaces your SS and pension income. Many of us are of a generation that only had one breadwinner in the home; the husband, and the wife raised children and took care of the household needs. It is the way it was and it worked just fine until the world changed. It isn't fun at all any more.


I haven't been called a "youngster" for quite a while! I've always been the only breadwinner in my household because I've never been married. One reason I chose to retire in Mexico is that my two very modest pension checks will allow me to have a comfortable retirement here. In fact, there's no way I could afford to live in the US without working till I dropped.


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## TamiJ

All I know is I feel the pain when I make my student loan payment every month and transfer my pesos over to make my USD payment. Ouch!


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## RVGRINGO

Yes, student loan payments! Student loans were unheard of in our college days. College tuition at my university was about $2500 per year and we always had part time jobs and/or summer jobs without any difficulty. I got a 50% discount in the men's dormitory as a 'residence hall advisor' and a bit of a scholarship from AFROTC. We didn't graduate with debt, a set of gold bars and active duty awaited after graduation and very permanent carreers were still the norm. That lasted until the mid 70s, when the slippery slope of the 'American Dream' really got greased.
So, back on topic; some of us are couples, but with only one income in retirement. Maybe a second SS check, but a very small one, if any, from a wife's occasional part time work.


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## chicois8

"scholarship from AFRO TC"

Yo Ringo, where can I get me one of them scholarships?


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## TundraGreen

chicois8 said:


> "scholarship from AFRO TC"
> 
> Yo Ringo, where can I get me one of them scholarships?


I am guessing it is Air Force ROTC (Reserve Officers Training Corps). Some of us were drafted out of grad school, went to Vietnam and then finished on the GI bill. Lots of ways to do it. It wasn't easy then. It isn't easy now.


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## chicois8

Tundra, I was just making a little joke, I figured it was Air Force, some people on this board have to have D.F. explained to them much less AFROTC......Bless our veterans and those serving now and in the future.......Thank you


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## TundraGreen

chicois8 said:


> Tundra, I was just making a little joke, I figured it was Air Force, some people on this board have to have D.F. explained to them much less AFROTC......Bless our veterans and those serving now and in the future.......Thank you


I didn't notice who asked. I thought it was TamiJ with the student loan payment and figured it was a serious question.


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## johnmex

I like it when the dollar loses value. It makes it cheaper to pay back our suppliers and our profit margin goes up! Plus I will never get a SS check. (I only worked for 6 years in the USA before moving here). I SHOULD get a pension (AFORE) here, but I am not counting on it...


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## Uecker_seats

I would have to say this is one of the reasons the resort I stayed in Cancun last October wanted me to pay for my 2 extra nights in USD, Also, there is a tequila factory store in Pto Vallarta, all their tequilas are priced in USD. Makes sense!


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## HolyMole

Isla Verde said:


> For the first time in several years, those of us on US SS pensions got a COL increase in our monthly checks. It's not that much in dollars but when turned into pesos, it's a nice little addition to my monthly income.


US SS isn't indexed to inflation? What a backward society.
Our Canadian equivalent to SS consists of Old Age Security, payable at age 65 and adjusted for inflation every three months, and the Canada Pension Plan, which is adjusted annually for inflation.
And just to rub salt in the wound, as a retired Canadian public servant, my "work" pension is also adjusted annually for inflation. (We paid an extra 1% of our annual salary just to cover that future indexing).


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## chicois8

HolyMole says" US SS isn't indexed to inflation? What a backward society."

If the cost of living goes up isn't that inflation? So why isn't SS tied to inflation?

And your second remark, At least we are not a divided country......eh

If it wasn't for this backward society you guys would be still using baby seal 

pelts for money, Oh I guess you still are, eh


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## RVGRINGO

A note here:
No Mexican can force you to pay your bill in anything but Mexican currency. Take advantage of that.
If they insist, ask them if they've been able to spend pesos in the USA lately, or anywhere else. If they still really want your dollars, ask for a heavy discount.


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## joaquinx

chicois8 said:


> HolyMole says" US SS isn't indexed to inflation? What a backward society."
> 
> If the cost of living goes up isn't that inflation? So why isn't SS tied to inflation?
> 
> And your second remark, At least we are not a divided country......eh
> 
> If it wasn't for this backward society you guys would be still using baby seal
> 
> pelts for money, Oh I guess you still are, eh


This Cost-of-Living Adjustment (COLA) Information will expain COLA to you.


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## chicois8

The purpose of the COLA is to ensure that the purchasing power of Social Security and Supplemental Security Income (SSI) benefits is not eroded by inflation. 

So directly or indirectly the cola is tied to inflation...

All I know is it's another 50 dollars in my account each month....eh


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## HolyMole

chicois8 said:


> HolyMole says" US SS isn't indexed to inflation? What a backward society."
> 
> If the cost of living goes up isn't that inflation? So why isn't SS tied to inflation?
> 
> And your second remark, At least we are not a divided country......eh
> 
> If it wasn't for this backward society you guys would be still using baby seal
> 
> pelts for money, Oh I guess you still are, eh


What we have here is a failure to communicate.
Isla Verde said he/she had just received a SS COL increase for the first time in several years....suggesting that US SS is apparently not indexed to inflation. (And yes, COLA and inflation-indexing are essentially the same thing, for practical purposes). If that's the case - that US public pensions for seniors are NOT indexed somehow to inflation - then that puts the USA out of step with most other western industrialized societies. In a word: backward.
And the USA isn't a divided country? Where have you been hiding, chicois8? Blue States? Red States? The evangelical, Born Again far right vs the (still relatively sane) rest of the country? And, hey, Canada still hasn't had an internal conflict that can touch your civil war.
Oh, and as of yesterday, our seal pelts were worth more than your dollar.


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## joaquinx

HolyMole said:


> What we have here is a failure to communicate.
> Isla Verde said he/she had just received a SS COL increase for the first time in several years....suggesting that US SS is apparently not indexed to inflation. (And yes, COLA and inflation-indexing are essentially the same thing, for practical purposes). If that's the case - that US public pensions for seniors are NOT indexed somehow to inflation - then that puts the USA out of step with most other western industrialized societies. In a word: backward.
> And the USA isn't a divided country? Where have you been hiding, chicois8? Blue States? Red States? The evangelical, Born Again far right vs the (still relatively sane) rest of the country? And, hey, Canada still hasn't had an internal conflict that can touch your civil war.


It appears that HolyMole wants to win this argument whether he is right or wrong. And there is no need to get nasty.


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## chicois8

Mole, you say " that US public pensions for seniors are NOT indexed somehow to inflation " 
That may be true but my public pension for some unknown reason goes up 3% every July !st...eh


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## Isla Verde

HolyMole said:


> What we have here is a failure to communicate.
> Isla Verde said he/she had just received a SS COL increase for the first time in several years....suggesting that US SS is apparently not indexed to inflation. (And yes, COLA and inflation-indexing are essentially the same thing, for practical purposes). If that's the case - that US public pensions for seniors are NOT indexed somehow to inflation - then that puts the USA out of step with most other western industrialized societies. In a word: backward.


Mea culpa, HM. I should have written that this year I received a COL increase for the first time *in a couple of years* not *in several years*. And indeed these increases are linked to inflation. So I guess that the US is not as backward as you would like to think it is , though it could certainly use improvement in a number of other areas of social concern.


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## pappabee

A few points of interest that are needed in this thread. First the Federal Retirement program that must of us over the age of 65 (or younger if so elected) is tied to the inflation index and that meant that in 2012 we got our first COLA since 2009. 

As far as the Civil War goes, Canada does not have clean hands in its treatment of Native Tribes. There are parts of Canada that are still having conflict with such tribes as the Blackfeet. Also remember that in the USA they still have basically one language (OK so those in the East can't understand much of what is said in the South and no one understands those in Maine) but they also only have one official language, not two like Canada. 

In fact each country has had as much GROWING UP problems as the other. Just different ones. Also, when did Canada become an independent country? If you're interested it was 1982. It took The Canada Act for this to happen. And what about all that mess with the French Canadians? Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So let's stop posting amost facts and stick to the real ones.


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## jpryor

Isla Verde said:


> For the first time in several years, those of us on US SS pensions got a COL increase in our monthly checks. It's not that much in dollars but when turned into pesos, it's a nice little addition to my monthly income.


For those of us on Medicare the premium when up an amount about equal to the SS increase. So in reality there was no measurable inclease to our monthly income.


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## Isla Verde

jpryor said:


> For those of us on Medicare the premium when up an amount about equal to the SS increase. So in reality there was no measurable inclease to our monthly income.


That's why I have opted out of the parts of Medicare you have to pay for. Since I don't live in the States any longer, I can't use the benefits, so why pay for them?


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## RVGRINGO

For some, the medical coverage that is included with retirement does require that we maintain Medicare Part B at about $100 USD per month, even though we can't use it outside of the USA. It is tempting to drop it anyway, but that would cancel the BCBS administered State coverage that I have, which does pay anywhere; once you fight them hard enough.
Insurance is the biggest 'game' in the USA and it isn't a fair game at all.


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## Isla Verde

RVGRINGO said:


> For some, the medical coverage that is included with retirement does require that we maintain Medicare Part B at about $100 USD per month, even though we can't use it outside of the USA. It is tempting to drop it anyway, but that would cancel the BCBS administered State coverage that I have, which does pay anywhere; once you fight them hard enough.
> Insurance is the biggest 'game' in the USA and it isn't a fair game at all.


I don't have any medical coverage connected with my very small pension from my last job in the States, so that's an issue I don't have to deal with. It makes sense for you to pay for Part B if your medical coverage can be used in Mexico. I have chosen to pay for private medical insurance in Mexico, and at a rate that would be unheard-of in the States, about $150US a month!

I completely agree with your comment about the insurance "game" in the US. A less than complimentary word came to mind to describe it, but if I used it, it might get me banned from this site  .


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## pappabee

jpryor said:


> For those of us on Medicare the premium when up an amount about equal to the SS increase. So in reality there was no measurable inclease to our monthly income.


That's right but without the increase you'd have to pay more just for the insurance. No one says that the government is helping us just not hurting us as bad.:focus:


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## HolyMole

chicois8 said:


> Mole, you say " that US public pensions for seniors are NOT indexed somehow to inflation "
> That may be true but my public pension for some unknown reason goes up 3% every July !st...eh


I never said US pensions are not indexed ...... ........oh, I give up.


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## TundraGreen

HolyMole said:


> I never said US pensions are not indexed ...... ........oh, I give up.


Maybe you should run for public office. You are already being quoted out of context.


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## chicois8

and why would someone call themselves: holy sauce ?


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## lascasas

joaquinx said:


> It appears that HolyMole wants to win this argument whether he is right or wrong. And there is no need to get nasty.


I'm from the U.S. and I agree 100% with Holymole (well let's say 99%. I think the seals should keep their pelts). The U.S. is extremely polarized, the poor are getting poorer, and the rich are becoming uber rich. Cost of living increase? Oh, we can't afford that. We have a deficit crises. No we don't, we have a revenue crises. Too many rich people paying little or no taxes. Not to turn this into a political thread, but if the right wing free marketeros had their way, there would not be _any_ Social Security, _no_ pensions, _no_ Medicare, nothing public. Got forbid universal healthcare (Socialism!). We could put all of our retirement money into a 401K piggy bank for corporations to use. We know how that works out. So yes, I agree that the U.S.
is a "backward" country, unless you are a social Darwinist, in that case, we are moving in the right direction! Let's put our children back in the sweatshops, then we can compete with the Chinese.


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## Snoopy1Can

*to isla verde*



Isla Verde said:


> I don't have any medical coverage connected with my very small pension from my last job in the States, so that's an issue I don't have to deal with. It makes sense for you to pay for Part B if your medical coverage can be used in Mexico. I have chosen to pay for private medical insurance in Mexico, and at a rate that would be unheard-of in the States, about $150US a month!
> 
> I completely agree with your comment about the insurance "game" in the US. A less than complimentary word came to mind to describe it, but if I used it, it might get me banned from this site  .


Where on earth can you get private med insuraance of 150 per month love to know and how old are you?


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## Isla Verde

Snoopy1Can said:


> Where on earth can you get private med insuraance of 150 per month love to know and how old are you?


From my insurance agent in Mexico City. I am now 66 but first took out a policy with my present agent when I was 64.


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## TundraGreen

Snoopy1Can said:


> Where on earth can you get private med insurance of 150 per month love to know and how old are you?


Then there is IMSS for $3300 mxn/year (=$22 usd/month). Maybe not for everybody, but I have done well with it.


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## Snoopy1Can

*Isa*



Isla Verde said:


> From my insurance agent in Mexico City. I am now 66 but first took out a policy with my present agent when I was 64.


I don't know if this is private but my e-mail is [email protected] and I do not uinderstand how to use a blog. I would appreciate a company name. I am 69.


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## Snoopy1Can

*tundr*

THANK YOU TUNDRA
I have read about it several times but understand you have be in pretty good health to qualify. I am 69. [email protected] san diego


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## Isla Verde

Snoopy1Can said:


> I don't know if this is private but my e-mail is [email protected] and I do not uinderstand how to use a blog. I would appreciate a company name. I am 69.


Do you speak and write Spanish fluently? I ask because the insurance brokers I use do not speak English and all the information they give you, including your policy, is in Spanish. I can't be absolutely sure, but most health insurance companies in Mexico will not accept new policyholders over the age of 64.


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## makaloco

Isla Verde said:


> That's why I have opted out of the parts of Medicare you have to pay for. Since I don't live in the States any longer, I can't use the benefits, so why pay for them?


I was all set to do that, but the late enrollment penalty for Part B scared me off. Even though I have no plans to live in the US, I'm lousy at predicting the future and don't dare assume that it will *never* happen. If it did, the most likely reasons would be major health issues or running out of money, so I'd need Part B and don't want to risk not being able to afford it.


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## Isla Verde

makaloco said:


> I was all set to do that, but the late enrollment penalty for Part B scared me off. Even though I have no plans to live in the US, I'm lousy at predicting the future and don't dare assume that it will *never* happen. If it did, the most likely reasons would be major health issues or running out of money, so I'd need Part B and don't want to risk not being able to afford it.


Your choice, of course. If I run into major health issues, I'd just as soon have them taken care of here. That's why I'm enrolled in a Mexican private health insurance plan.


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## TundraGreen

Snoopy1Can said:


> THANK YOU TUNDRA
> I have read about it several times but understand you have be in pretty good health to qualify. I am 69. [email protected] san diego


You have to fill out a questionnaire about existing conditions. I did not have to take any physical exam. I don't think there is an age limit, although the price goes up with age. The price I quoted applies to 66 year olds. I don't remember the other rates. There are also some excluded procedures for the first year or so.


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## mm79

*SS COLA history*



Isla Verde said:


> For the first time in several years, those of us on US SS pensions got a COL increase in our monthly checks. It's not that much in dollars but when turned into pesos, it's a nice little addition to my monthly income.


This sparked my curiosity -- (I get more interested in Social Security the closer I get to collecting it) -- and I found a rundown of annual increases dating back to '75 on the social security website (can't post the actual url here

ssa.gov/cola/automatic-cola.htm/History of Automatic Cost-of-Living Adjustments

There have been some pretty wild swings over the years -- including going from 5.8% in '09 to zilch% in '10. Also, I forgot how crazy inflation was back in the early '80s. Yikes.


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## HolyMole

chicois8 said:


> and why would someone call themselves: holy sauce ?




There is a little story behind "HolyMole", but I'm not going to tell you - you'll just misquote me again.


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## chicois8

Holysauce says" you'll just misquote me again."

I am so sorry............


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## TundraGreen

:focus: Please.


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## jasavak

HolyMole said:


> US SS isn't indexed to inflation? What a backward society.
> Our Canadian equivalent to SS consists of Old Age Security, payable at age 65 and adjusted for inflation every three months, and the Canada Pension Plan, which is adjusted annually for inflation.
> And just to rub salt in the wound, as a retired Canadian public servant, my "work" pension is also adjusted annually for inflation. (We paid an extra 1% of our annual salary just to cover that future indexing).




The SS is indexed to inflation . However , according to the Obama administration we have had no inflation for the past two years , hence no increase for SS for the first time in decades . Our government also claims our unemployment is now only 8.3% although most people understand it's much higher .


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## pappabee

jasavak said:


> The SS is indexed to inflation . However , according to the Obama administration we have had no inflation for the past two years , hence no increase for SS for the first time in decades . Our government also claims our unemployment is now only 8.3% although most people understand it's much higher .


Please be careful with your facts. I like most US citizens over 65 got a SS increase this year. True the first time after two years of nothing and it's not according to the Obama Administration it's according to the Federal Reserve. The Presidental Administration has very little control over the Federal Reserve stats.

:clap2:


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## joaquinx

pappabee said:


> Please be careful with your facts. I like most US citizens over 65 got a SS increase this year. True the first time after two years of nothing and it's not according to the Obama Administration it's according to the Federal Reserve. The Presidental Administration has very little control over the Federal Reserve stats.
> 
> :clap2:


http://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/cpiw.html. Actually it's the Bureau of Labor Statistics that publishes the Consumer Price Index (CPI-W)


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## gudgrief

circle110 said:


> That isn't so terrible for those of us who have our money in the US market because our net worth goes up even as our buying power with pesos goes down. However, for those who receive a set pension or Social Security, it kind of stinks.


Didn't we all know that when we decided to be expats?


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## PieGrande

In response to the person who asked if Mexicans can spend Pesos in the US: Actually, Mexicans do spend pesos in the US. IBC bank in McAllen takes in a large amount of large Mexican bills on Monday morning, from Mexicans who cross the border to shop. That does not negate your main point, just saying.

My Medicare is confusing, because of some tie-in with my retirement pension, but our cash received on SS after paying Medicare went up nearly $100 this year.

This will anger some of you, but I am one who thinks they give us too much SS money. I take it and save for the future, but in the end our SS money comes from young people, since the legislators have been robbing our trust fund for a very long time.


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## mickisue1

I find the the US/Canada bickering amusing.

I still live in the US, and can't wait to get out. COLA is a joke. It's tied to, but less than, the actual rise in living costs in any given year.

I'm still too "young" to collect SSI, at 61, but I get pension money from my ex's fund, as we were married for 15 years, and he was a public servant. 

He retired 7 years ago, and my total increase has been less than 10% in that entire time.

The reality is that, unless one has made plans to have a separate income from investments, and that separate income has survived the vagaries of the stock market over the past decade, living decently, much less well, in either the US or Canada is impossible on retirement.

One poster commented that s/he is paying for Medicare, on the off chance of running out of money, and returning to the US.

I promise that if you have run out of money in Mexico, you will not be able to survive in the US! And, even so, if you are so poor as to not be able to afford to live in Mexico, you will find that there are, in most states, health care options that are run on a sliding scale, and much less expensive than Medicare.

Be grateful that your modest incomes allow you to live as well as you do in your chosen country.

Leave the bickering about your respective countries of origin behind. We have something to learn from each other, and making rude plays on each other's screen names doesn't improve your day or theirs.


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## pappabee

PieGrande said:


> In response to the person who asked if Mexicans can spend Pesos in the US: Actually, Mexicans do spend pesos in the US. IBC bank in McAllen takes in a large amount of large Mexican bills on Monday morning, from Mexicans who cross the border to shop. That does not negate your main point, just saying.
> 
> My Medicare is confusing, because of some tie-in with my retirement pension, but our cash received on SS after paying Medicare went up nearly $100 this year.
> 
> This will anger some of you, but I am one who thinks they give us too much SS money. I take it and save for the future, but in the end our SS money comes from young people, since the legislators have been robbing our trust fund for a very long time.


I disagree completely with your last paragraph. First of all, SS is supposed to be an insurance policy that we pay for during our working lives. If the government robs the fund then we need to fire the government (and we all know how easy that'll be). We deserve that money (we worked hard and paid for it over the years). As far as getting too much goes what about the poor person who was employed by one of the supposed great companies that went bankrupt over the last 20 years? What about that pension fund that the company supposedly held for us that went away with the bankruptcy? 

I worked for a company for over 15 years. I had a vested retirement package that was worth over $95.000 us. They went bankrupt and the entire retirement package went with them. The current class action lawsuit says I might get .003 cents on the dollar. The only income I have is SS. Yes I can live in Mexico on that and really live somewhat nicely. But not the way I envisioned when I was working. I lost my home in the states but here I am and very, very happy to be here. 

They don't "give us" anything. We earned everything that we get and much more. So give us credit for what is due and tell the government to keep their hands off of what we earned and deserve.


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## gudgrief

pappabee said:


> I disagree completely with your last paragraph. First of all, SS is supposed to be an insurance policy that we pay for during our working lives. If the government robs the fund then we need to fire the government (and we all know how easy that'll be). We deserve that money (we worked hard and paid for it over the years). As far as getting too much goes what about the poor person who was employed by one of the supposed great companies that went bankrupt over the last 20 years? What about that pension fund that the company supposedly held for us that went away with the bankruptcy?
> 
> I worked for a company for over 15 years. I had a vested retirement package that was worth over $95.000 us. They went bankrupt and the entire retirement package went with them. The current class action lawsuit says I might get .003 cents on the dollar. The only income I have is SS. Yes I can live in Mexico on that and really live somewhat nicely. But not the way I envisioned when I was working. I lost my home in the states but here I am and very, very happy to be here.
> 
> They don't "give us" anything. We earned everything that we get and much more. So give us credit for what is due and tell the government to keep their hands off of what we earned and deserve.


Pappabee,

Everything you wrote is absolutely true. If we'd had the option to put most of our savings into FDIC guaranteed bank CD's, we'd all be getting a much higher monthly pensions from SS. I'm fairly well satisfied with Medicare. I live close enough to the border and keep a place in TX so I can get services under Medicare. The premiums and copays, plus the $50 roundtrip if I happen to be in Mexico at the time, are something of a strain but I'm still way better off and in a much easier going town than if I spent most of my time in the US.


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## PieGrande

It is good you state your opinion, which is different from mine, Pappabee. The problem is you are talking the way things should be, (and I agree with that view of the way things should be) and I am trying to talk the way things are. Yes, we did pay in, and if the money had not been robbed by the government to balance the budget (not that they really did) there would be plenty to pay us all we were promised and should be paid.

However, the reality is the money was robbed. It is gone. All they have is a lot of pieces of paper in filing cabinets, and the current receipts from working people. It, as many of us think, the Chinese stop loaning us money, there will be no money to pay anyone anything. When people are begging for food in the street, no one will be paying our SS checks, no matter how much we 'deserve' it.

The problem is, those pieces of paper in the filing cabinets represent a significant minority part of our national debt. If the US defaults on SS, as many young people think they should do, our financial rating will hit the basement, exactly the same as if we default on money owed to other nations, and the US will not be able to continue operating on borrowed money.

I can live very cheaply here in my little village if I must. The problem is, if I can't show income to renew my "FM-3" i am going to be forced out of Mexico. I am thinking of obtaining "spouse of Mexican citizen' status so eventually I need not show a minimum income each year.

For the most part, the conversion rate does not affect me. I live so far below my income that a modest percentage does not affect me at all.


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## gudgrief

PieGrande said:


> I can live very cheaply here in my little village if I must. The problem is, if I can't show income to renew my "FM-3" i am going to be forced out of Mexico. I am thinking of obtaining "spouse of Mexican citizen' status so eventually I need not show a minimum income each year.
> 
> For the most part, the conversion rate does not affect me. I live so far below my income that a modest percentage does not affect me at all.


You may be correct about the future of Social Security. Even though a lot of people argue that the US can borrow as much as it wants, the same people a re firm in the idea that the debt we owe ourselves can always be made up with fiat money. Well, the scenario you laid out sounds more plausible. I can also live very cheaply, might even have a family that'll take me in.

I'm just wondering about the new immigration regulations that will go into effect eventually. There is some hint there that we might be able to convert to what used to be _inmigrado_ (permanente) status from _no inmigrante_ without having to spend 5 years as _inmigrante_ which, I believe, doesn't require you to prove income every year. I'm not holding out a whole lot of hope. We won't know what the new regulations will be until we come face to face with them at an INM office when we got to renew.


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## vantexan

Actually it's Medicare that's in serious danger of going under soon. Here's the thing about SS that seems to be missed: when the SS trust fund runs out there will still be income into the system through payroll taxes and employer matching funds. No, that won't pay it all and somewhere down the line there has to be some hard choices made. Means testing to eliminate or at least reduce the amount of SS going to the affluent. Reduced checks for many. I believe the reasons this issue gets demagogued so much is one the employers don't want to pay the matching funds and two they would like to see it all go into the stock market(and guess who owns alot of stock?). I work for one of the world's most well known corporations. They've stripped our benefits, terminated our pension plan, slowed pay progression to a trickle, and got Congress to place us under certain laws that makes it almost impossible to unionize. I would've left in 2008 when the pension was taken away but the economy tanked and eventually I got a clogged artery. So I'm stuck until I retire. Considering all that I think the least they and others can do is match our payroll taxes and not let our retirement depend on the roller coaster stock market. And after years of pushing us to accept less and less while they did extremely well I wouldn't have a problem taking Social Security from corporate execs. Those that benefit the most from the system need to step up and give something back. Oh I know, no doubt they won't see it that way.


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## mickisue1

Having done a lot of research on it, I am still at a loss as to the reasoning behind the US being the only first world country that still maintains that healthcare is a profit center, not a right of its citizens.

We have poorer outcomes than many countries that are considered marginal, yet we continue to bicker over the "cost" of national healthcare for the entire populace.

Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of accounting and actuarial science (that would be me, LOL) understands the law of large numbers, and that spreading out risk over 300 million people lowers the over all risk. 

The fact that a significant portion of the cost of medical care: insurance and prescriptions, goes to pay the multi million dollar incomes of the CEOs and CFOs of insurance companies and Big Pharma, makes the equation even easier to understand.

One of the biggest insurers in the US, United Healthcare, is domiciled in my state. Their CEO has made as much as $150 million in a year, with salary, bonuses and stock options.

It's true that one of the reasons that I want to live in MX is the opportunity to have access to good medical care for a fraction of the price, whether obtained privately or through IMSS. Since the only current conditions I have are hypothyroidism and a little arthritis (don't we all), I think I'll be fine. DH is a runner, and disgustingly healthy.

That said, I could not be happier, if I knew that my kids in this country, and future generations of Americans could have access to what my DD in Italy can take for granted: the knowledge that healthcare, even for catastrophic illness or injury, is available without worry of bankruptcy.


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## RVGRINGO

How true. When developing countries are designing their health care systems, they are often asked, "Have you studied the United States' health care system?" All answered in the affirmative. When asked what they had learned, they replied, "We learned now NOT to do it!"


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## HolyMole

RVGRINGO said:


> How true. When developing countries are designing their health care systems, they are often asked, "Have you studied the United States' health care system?" All answered in the affirmative. When asked what they had learned, they replied, "We learned now NOT to do it!"


And we've got a conservative majority government in Canada, (i.e. the Conservative Party. At least they don't mince words as to where they're coming from, philosophically), that, although they haven't the courage to admit it publically, want to gut Canada's healthcare system to bring it into line with the US system.
Absolute madness.


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## RVGRINGO

It is all a 'house of cards' and the wind is blowing!


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## gudgrief

mickisue1 said:


> Having done a lot of research on it, I am still at a loss as to the reasoning behind the US being the only first world country that still maintains that healthcare is a profit center, not a right of its citizens.
> 
> We have poorer outcomes than many countries that are considered marginal, yet we continue to bicker over the "cost" of national healthcare for the entire populace.
> 
> Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of accounting and actuarial science (that would be me, LOL) understands the law of large numbers, and that spreading out risk over 300 million people lowers the over all risk.
> 
> The fact that a significant portion of the cost of medical care: insurance and prescriptions, goes to pay the multi million dollar incomes of the CEOs and CFOs of insurance companies and Big Pharma, makes the equation even easier to understand.
> 
> One of the biggest insurers in the US, United Healthcare, is domiciled in my state. Their CEO has made as much as $150 million in a year, with salary, bonuses and stock options.
> 
> It's true that one of the reasons that I want to live in MX is the opportunity to have access to good medical care for a fraction of the price, whether obtained privately or through IMSS. Since the only current conditions I have are hypothyroidism and a little arthritis (don't we all), I think I'll be fine. DH is a runner, and disgustingly healthy.
> 
> That said, I could not be happier, if I knew that my kids in this country, and future generations of Americans could have access to what my DD in Italy can take for granted: the knowledge that healthcare, even for catastrophic illness or injury, is available without worry of bankruptcy.


Why doesn't the EU have one single system for the whole union?
You might be better off spreading the cost over 300 million people rather than Denmark (6 million people.)
There's also the delivery side too and it could be that the law of diminishing returns sets in very quickly, especially since well trained and competent healthcare providers are not that easy to come by.
300 million people, it's never been done before.

I'm not looking for an argument, I'm just saying it may not be as obvious as it seems. How many people are on Medicare? 43.8 million people who had Part B in 2010. That's bigger than most countries in Europe. Why then, are copays and deductibles so high? Why are people complaining they can't see a doctor? Could be it's the politicians want it that way.

Regarding out


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## RVGRINGO

American doctors want to see a patient every 15 minutes, have someone else do the paperwork and have time for golf. The US doesn't produce enough physicians any more and fails to weed out the dangerous ones; they just buy more malpractice insurance in case you are maimed or die. Hospitals are deteriorating and infection control is terrible. Nobody cares any more. For 'care', we prefer Mexico's private hospitals and uninsured physicians. The bad ones don't last long. Word of mouth.........


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## pappabee

RVGRINGO said:


> American doctors want to see a patient every 15 minutes, have someone else do the paperwork and have time for golf. The US doesn't produce enough physicians any more and fails to weed out the dangerous ones; they just buy more malpractice insurance in case you are maimed or die. Hospitals are deteriorating and infection control is terrible. Nobody cares any more. For 'care', we prefer Mexico's private hospitals and uninsured physicians. The bad ones don't last long. Word of mouth.........


Just remember what they call the student that finishes last in the class at medical school---------------------DOCTOR


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## mickisue1

Gudgrief, I agree.

I'm not claiming that any system is perfect. Just that ours stinks.

The biggest reason for the bloatedness of Medicare is, again, the idea that healthcare is a profit center.

The "doughnut hole" in Medicare prescription coverage is there because that appallingly bad law was written by the Big Pharma. A major component of that law prevents negotiating lower prices on medications, thereby assuring that the doughnut hole will be reached sooner. 

I still remember, back in the heady days of the mid 90's, when it looked like we might be getting true national healthcare, discussing it with my Ob Gyn. His comment was that, because managed healthcare in MN was so rampant, and so cutthroat to the doctors, he'd probably do better under a nationalized payment plan than the multitude of capitated plans to which he then was captive.

Then, of course, the insurance industry brought us Harry and Louise, and the rest, sadly, is history.


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## pappabee

I don't entirely agree with what everyone is saying regarding the US health care system. First of all, we don't have a system and secondly what we have is much too costly.

I doctor once told me that he charges $125 US per office visit. Medicare only pays $65 so the doctor has to eat the rest. ( I know someone is going to yell about how much money the doctor makes...please do so quietly) He told me that if the country would limit the amount of pain and suffering awards to $50,000.00 or less he could reduce the amount of insurance he must carry and therefore reduce his prices by at least 50%.

American doctors order three times the number of lab tests than doctors in most other countries, WHY? Because they want to cover their butts in case of a law suit. My wife went to a doctor here in Mexico because of a rash. He examined the rash and gave here a salve to put on it. She asked why he didn't want to order some lab tests. His answer was he could order a few hundred dollars worth of tests like they do in the States and when they came back he'd give her the salve to put on.


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## RVGRINGO

I've heard that there are actually places in this world where good teachers are paid as much as doctors; sometimes more. Interesting concept?


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## AlanMexicali

*Socialized Medicine*



RVGRINGO said:


> American doctors want to see a patient every 15 minutes, have someone else do the paperwork and have time for golf. The US doesn't produce enough physicians any more and fails to weed out the dangerous ones; they just buy more malpractice insurance in case you are maimed or die. Hospitals are deteriorating and infection control is terrible. Nobody cares any more. For 'care', we prefer Mexico's private hospitals and uninsured physicians. The bad ones don't last long. Word of mouth.........


I agree that the more incompetent a private Dr. is in Mexico the less chance they will have of surviving financially in the private sector, most likely. However there might be a patient following that does not ask for references or does not have the word of mouth to support his/her decision. In TJ a place that apparently specializes in plastic surgery, these surgeons still have private clinics and continue to hack people up. The San Diego TV news did a piece on people going there for procedures at half or less of the cost NOB that where both interviewees had good and bad procedures. The bottom line was that there are unregistered state surgeons and state registered surgeons working there. In the US or Canada I doubt any are working without a state license or liability insurance as it appears is happening at least in TJ.


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## Detailman

RVGRINGO said:


> It is all a 'house of cards' and the wind is blowing!


So true! That's the single biggest fact that the "majority" do not recognize.

In my opinion many people are going to be in for a big surprise in the not too distant future. Many will not be prepared for the consequences.


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## RVGRINGO

Allan, what you describe is purely Darwinian; survival of the fittest. Patient and doctor alike. Choose your 'cutter' carefully. Insurance may pay, licenses may permit, but the botched job remains.

Detailman, you recognize that there will be consequences; perhaps much more bloody than in the current 'changes' taking place in North Africa, Syria, etc. Three days of unrest in the USA and starvation will begin, anarchy will erupt and there will be a lot of blood in the streets. The 'nanny state' will be as helpless as its citizens. It is all very fragile. Civilization always has been fragile.

What was the topic? Oh, yes. If that happens, what will the peso do? Stuff grows here all year, so it will rise.


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## HolyMole

*Medical liability insurance*



AlanMexicali said:


> ...... In the US or Canada I doubt any are working without a state license or liability insurance as it appears is happening at least in TJ.


I could be wrong, but I think suing doctors in Canada is extremely rare. Soon as I get home I'm going to
ask my GP. Of course you Americans are a lawsuit-happy bunch on just about any issue, aren't you? Last October my wife tripped and fell in the gangway while exiting a plane at LAX. There was an Alaska Airlines attendant standing right there, who watched her fall. The first words out of her mouth were:
That's the responsibility of the airport, not of Alaska Airlines."
I replied: "No, that's my wife's responsibility for not watching where she was walking."
When I retold the story later to friends in Zihuatanejo, virtually every American said we were "stupid" not to have sued both the airline and LAX. I recall maybe one Canadian even mentioning the word "lawsuit".


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## AlanMexicali

*Surgeons*



RVGRINGO said:


> Allan, what you describe is purely Darwinian; survival of the fittest. Patient and doctor alike. Choose your 'cutter' carefully. Insurance may pay, licenses may permit, but the botched job remains.
> 
> Detailman, you recognize that there will be consequences; perhaps much more bloody than in the current 'changes' taking place in North Africa, Syria, etc. Three days of unrest in the USA and starvation will begin, anarchy will erupt and there will be a lot of blood in the streets. The 'nanny state' will be as helpless as its citizens. It is all very fragile. Civilization always has been fragile.
> 
> What was the topic? Oh, yes. If that happens, what will the peso do? Stuff grows here all year, so it will rise.


I know that many choose their Dr.s carefully but I was pointing out many do not have the inside track to do so and especially those coming to a place like TJ for a few days to save money where state unregistered surgeons have set up shop and advertize heavily. I have no desire to discredit anyone who needs a procedure and lives or comes to Mexico to have it done, but really have not heard of many horror stories lately like I did a of couple decades ago, for example, about botched procedures at the IMSS on the border. I doubt, but don't know for sure, that unregistered surgeons would be run out of the state of SLP. The building permit and construction inspection department in Mexicali and TJ certainly are doing a lousy job compared to the municipality of San Luis Potosi.


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## Detailman

RVGRINGO said:


> Allan, what you describe is purely Darwinian; survival of the fittest. Patient and doctor alike. Choose your 'cutter' carefully. Insurance may pay, licenses may permit, but the botched job remains.
> 
> Detailman, you recognize that there will be consequences; perhaps much more bloody than in the current 'changes' taking place in North Africa, Syria, etc. Three days of unrest in the USA and starvation will begin, anarchy will erupt and there will be a lot of blood in the streets. The 'nanny state' will be as helpless as its citizens. It is all very fragile. Civilization always has been fragile.
> 
> What was the topic? Oh, yes. If that happens, what will the peso do? Stuff grows here all year, so it will rise.


And the dollar will fall. Inflation in the US will rise to levels that will crush the market, with government debt unsustainable at the high interest rates as government income in taxes, etc. will not even be able to pay their interest charges. This is especially true due to the recent increase in government debt in trillions of dollars in a very short time.

Some other economies will do better. So Mexico might be a haven for what it has to offer even in hard times.

Perhaps better to be at the head of the line of those heading there.

Only a personal opinion but I remember the 18 - 20% interest rates of the early eighties that wiiped me out in the stock market.

We have a whole new generation that didn't experience that and can't fathom the consequences of such a thing today and of course don't believe that such a thing could happen again. (I'm not saying interest rates will go that high but if they went even close to half that it would be a disaster for the government and the people.)

The Canadian $ will probably do well and I forget what they said about the peso which again brings us back to topic.


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## AlanMexicali

*OIL Exports*



Detailman said:


> And the dollar will fall. Inflation in the US will rise to levels that will crush the market, with government debt unsustainable at the high interest rates as government income in taxes, etc. will not even be able to pay their interest charges. This is especially true due to the recent increase in government debt in trillions of dollars in a very short time.
> 
> Some other economies will do better. So Mexico might be a haven for what it has to offer even in hard times.
> 
> Perhaps better to be at the head of the line of those heading there.
> 
> Only a personal opinion but I remember the 18 - 20% interest rates of the early eighties that wiiped me out in the stock market.
> 
> We have a whole new generation that didn't experience that and can't fathom the consequences of such a thing today and of course don't believe that such a thing could happen again. (I'm not saying interest rates will go that high but if they went even close to half that it would be a disaster for the government and the people.)
> 
> The Canadian $ will probably do well and I forget what they said about the peso which again brings us back to topic.



My friends feels Mexico will be a net importer of oil in 15 years or so instead of a net exporter. I used to see the peso rise and fall with the price per barrel, not anymore. Food and industrial exports might be involved more now than before.


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## Detailman

HolyMole said:


> I could be wrong, but I think suing doctors in Canada is extremely rare. Soon as I get home I'm going to
> ask my GP. Of course you Americans are a lawsuit-happy bunch on just about any issue, aren't you? Last October my wife tripped and fell in the gangway while exiting a plane at LAX. There was an Alaska Airlines attendant standing right there, who watched her fall. The first words out of her mouth were:
> That's the responsibility of the airport, not of Alaska Airlines."
> I replied: "No, that's my wife's responsibility for not watching where she was walking."
> When I retold the story later to friends in Zihuatanejo, virtually every American said we were "stupid" not to have sued both the airline and LAX. I recall maybe one Canadian even mentioning the word "lawsuit".


You are correct about lawsuits in Canada. The US medical system is sue crazy but in Canada you don't find that. (I don't know if a GP in Canada would ever admit the real reasons.

The reason: The insurance companies in Canada have taken a stance that they will protect the doctors at all cost to prevent precedents being set. Yes, there are some cases that are settled in the millions but they are few and far between and they are cases where the doctor's ineptness is so plainly evident that a judge or jury can do nothing but award a high settlement.

But in most cases the insurance companies will spend whatever is necessary to discourage future lawsuits. Unless you have a bottomless bucket you may as well forget it. Want to sue for $200,000? The insurace companies could spend $1,000,000 in defending the case. Reason - to discourage further lawsuits and avoid having precedents set.

A further problem is that in Canada it is far harder than in the US to get other doctors to testify about the ineptness of their fellow doctors. Hey, it might be me the next time. That is their thinking. You don't out the other doctor.

Sad, but basically the case.


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## PieGrande

My best friend here is a doctor. Until the recent tank in the economy, he was delivering around 250 babies a year. I once asked him how many he lost. He first didn't understand the question, then he was offended. He said zero.

In the US, if a patient dies, the insurance company pays something. Here, if a patient dies, the government goes over his records with a fine comb. If he made any mistake at all, he loses his license, and often goes to prison.

Here, it is assumed any patient at risk, a competent doctor will move that patient to a higher level care place. Failure to do so is apparently prima facie evidence of incompetence ergo negligence.

An example, a year or two ago, a dentist performed dental surgery on a boy. There is some haplotype issue with the anesthetic used, and the boy died. When I mentioned it my son knew all about it, and both the anesthesiologist and dentis failed to test that factor. Both will serve several years in prison, and will never practice again.

So, as my friend explained it, the doctor's first duty is to ascertain if he can deal with the patient's risk factors, if not get him to a hospital or higher level care center. Once they hit a certain level of care, then the risk of death is assumed to be an expected risk.


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## Detailman

PieGrande said:


> My best friend here is a doctor. Until the recent tank in the economy, he was delivering around 250 babies a year. I once asked him how many he lost. He first didn't understand the question, then he was offended. He said zero.
> 
> In the US, if a patient dies, the insurance company pays something. Here, if a patient dies, the government goes over his records with a fine comb. If he made any mistake at all, he loses his license, and often goes to prison.
> 
> Here, it is assumed any patient at risk, a competent doctor will move that patient to a higher level care place. Failure to do so is apparently prima facie evidence of incompetence ergo negligence.
> 
> An example, a year or two ago, a dentist performed dental surgery on a boy. There is some haplotype issue with the anesthetic used, and the boy died. When I mentioned it my son knew all about it, and both the anesthesiologist and dentis failed to test that factor. Both will serve several years in prison, and will never practice again.
> 
> So, as my friend explained it, the doctor's first duty is to ascertain if he can deal with the patient's risk factors, if not get him to a hospital or higher level care center. Once they hit a certain level of care, then the risk of death is assumed to be an expected risk.


All I can say is WOW! Wish we had that in Canada.

Yes, we have universal coverage but presently you might wait up to six months to get an MRI whereas in Europe or China (cities like Shangai) you could get an MRI within days or even immediately.

As mentioned, doctors are well protected in Canada. Not totally, but WELL protected.


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## PieGrande

*Yes, I Like it, too*

I do not know how long that system has been in effect. It may be recent rather than a very long time. I also cannot say it is true of all states, I only know Puebla. But, yes, it clearly is a very strong motivator. And, also a very effective system to eliminate the dangerous doctors.


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## Detailman

To clarify my coment above, I mention MRI's simply as an example as to how our medical system in Canada in falling apart. People can wait several years for hip surgery, 6 months for other serious ailments, months to see a specialist and months for a simple (in other countries) diagnostic test. Everyone is covered by our system but you might suffer while you await the coverage or in extreme cases pass away.


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## mickisue1

Detailman said:


> To clarify my coment above, I mention MRI's simply as an example as to how our medical system in Canada in falling apart. People can wait several years for hip surgery, 6 months for other serious ailments, months to see a specialist and months for a simple (in other countries) diagnostic test. Everyone is covered by our system but you might suffer while you await the coverage or in extreme cases pass away.


Ah, Detailman, the irony of the American for-profit model of healthcare is that you can have long waits, too.

I mentioned here somewhere that I'm hypothyroid. 

Several years ago, I had a viral infection in my thyroid. I was exhibiting symptoms of sever hyPERthyroidism, but my thyroid was dumping stored T4 into my system, and not making more. I was SICK.

My family practice doctor's office called to make an appointment for a consultation with an endocrinologist. Because we had HMO coverage at the time, that was the only way the visit would be covered. As sick as I was, the first appointment I could get was 2 months out.

Luckily, the doctor himself talked to the endocrinologist, and I got an appointment in 5 days.

Now that I'm stable, I have to make my appointments 6 months ahead of time, just for routine follow up.

And, pay 100% of the first $300 per year, and 20% of the next $900 for the privilege. That's on top of the $275 we pay for coverage per month for two people, and the $400 on top of that that DH's employer pays for us.


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