# Certificate of citizen - valid for 9 months only?



## Foradarede (Aug 25, 2013)

Hi All,

Sorry if this has already been discussed elsewhere, but I haven´t found anything that answers my question, so I thought I would start a new thread.

In October last year I had been in Portugal 3 months so I went to the main police station in Viseu (the security guard at the Câmara told me I had to go there) to get my certificate so that I could stay on.

I read that book about buying a property in Portugal a while back, so I knew I had to get this certificate once I had been here 3 months, and I believe I read that this certificate is valid for 5 years, after which time I could apply for residency. However, the certificate I have is valid only until July this year, which is only 9 months.

Did I somehow get the wrong type of certificate? Or am I just remembering the information I read incorrectly? I paid 15 euros for the certificate, and it is called Certificado de Registo de Cidadão da União Europeia. Further down it says ´Efectuou o registo previsto no supra citado diploma legal, o qual é válido até 09-07-14´

I should just say that I don´t have a fixed abode here in Portugal, so I used my friend´s address in Viseu. I did tell the police that, so could that have anything to do with the short validity date maybe?

Can anyone please explain?

Thanks for the help!


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

The Certificate and cost you have is correct but it should be valid for 5 years not 9 months, the address you use isn't a criteria as such and should be changed if you move, but if your Passport runs out in 9 months might affect the date they've entered.

This "certificate" gives you the right to be a Resident and remain in Portugal, when you have lived here legally for 5 years you then register as a Permanent Resident which like a Passport needs renewing every 10 years.

Afraid you need to return to the Camara who act as agents of SEF the Government Dept responsible and ask why they've put 9 months and not 5 years, it is not a police/GNR procedure in Portugal.
This is wording of the Law referred to
Article 14.

Registration of EU citizens

Union citizens whose stay in the national territory lasts for more than three months must register in order to formalize their right of residence within 30 days after the three months of entry into the national territory.
The register referred to in the preceding paragraph is made with the municipal council of the area of ​​residence.
Upon registration a registration certificate, a model to be adopted by the member of the Government responsible for internal administration, with the name and address of the holder of the right of residence and date of registration is issued.
The certificate of registration referred to in the preceding paragraph is valid for five years from the date of issue or for the envisaged period of residence of the Union citizen, if this period is less than five years.
For the issue of registration certificate of the Union citizen is required identity card or valid passport as well as a declaration, under oath, that the applicant fulfills the conditions referred to in points a), b) or c) above . 1 of Article 7. thereof, as appropriate.
For the issuance of the certificate of registration to the Union citizen who resides in the quality of family presentation of the following documents is required:
A valid identity card or passport;
. Proof of a family relationship or a partner within the meaning of point ii) of subparagraph e) of Article 2 if the documents mentioned in the preceding paragraph or that relationship quality is not evident;
A registration certificate of the Union citizen accompanying or to which they meet;
Documentary evidence that they are dependent for purposes of the provisions in subparagraphs iii) and iv) of paragraph e) of Article 2.;
In the cases referred to in paragraph. 2 of Article 3., A document issued by the competent authority of the country of origin or provenance certifying that they are dependent on the Union citizen or members of his living in the same household, or proof the existence of serious health grounds which strictly require the personal care by the citizen of the Union


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## Foradarede (Aug 25, 2013)

Thank you, Canoeman!

Okay, looks like I will have to go back to, what, the Police station or the Câmara? I wonder why I was sent to the police station in the first place. The security guard / receptionist at the Câmara seemed definite that they didn´t deal with these certificates and that I should go to the police, who did deal with me, albeit a bit hesitantly.

My passport doesn´t run out until 2017.

What a bore!

Thank you very much again!

Kind regards,


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

So Passport shouldn't be the issue.
Should be Camara, personally never heard of Police doing, maybe in your Camara it might be the Camara police force, some Camaras have a local force who might be designated place for registration, it should certainly not be the GNR or maybe the security guard/receptionist got it wrong


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## Foradarede (Aug 25, 2013)

Okay, thank you again Canoeman. I will go to the Câmara and explain, and see if they can rectify without me having to pay again.

Should be the case considering I was sent by their receptionist.

Best wishes to you, and thank you for all that you do here.


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## notlongnow (May 21, 2009)

They only gave us a year initially, then another four when we renewed...


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## Foradarede (Aug 25, 2013)

Oh really? I wonder why. I will check with the Câmara, and report back. Thanks for your contribution, notlongnow.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

FWIW, when we gout ours, it was from the camara, for 5 years, took no more than 15 minutes & the only documents we had to show was fiscal & UK passport.


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## Foradarede (Aug 25, 2013)

Thanks Travellingman. Sounds like I was directed to the wrong place that day.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Foradarede said:


> Thanks Travellingman. Sounds like I was directed to the wrong place that day.



I reckon so.


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

Took a friend to the camaraderie last week. All that was needed was PASSPORT, FISCAL NUMBER, PROOF OF INCOME and PROOF OF ADDRESS


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

siobhanwf said:


> Took a friend to the camaraderie last week. All that was needed was PASSPORT, FISCAL NUMBER, *PROOF OF INCOME* and PROOF OF ADDRESS


We were not asked to provide any proof of income or funds but I do know several others who have and for what it's worth, it seems more common to be asked for that in the south of the country.


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## Foradarede (Aug 25, 2013)

*confused*

Well, I went along with a Portuguese friend to the Police station a couple of months ago, to find out if there had been a mistake with them putting on only 9 months on my registration certificate. We were told that they don't give certificates for 5 years in order to avoid having foreigners start to claim social security after they've been here for 1 year.

I am so confused. I was under the impression that the registration certificate valid for 5 years would not even allow someone to ask for unemployment benefit during that time. I have no intention of trying to claim any benefits in Portugal. I am here to look for a home and I have enough money to do that without a mortgage or any kind of loan. Although I am by no means rich, the amount I have access to would prohibit me from being given benefits anyway!

My certificate runs out this week, so we went to a different Câmara within the district of Viseu, and were told there seemed to have been a mistake and that I should have been given a certificate to last for 5 years. So we went to the Loja de Cidadao where there is a department of SEF and she seemed to think it was because I had told the Police that I was looking for work, which I hadn't.

We then went to the Police station and they confirmed that it was to prevent having people try to claim benefits after having been here for a year. They also said that they didn't have the option of filling out a box to say I was in Portugal looking for a quinta to buy, so they had just put down that I was looking for work.

But get this - in order for me to stay legally in Portugal I have to go to the Police station and get my certificate renewed every 6 months and pay 15 euros each time for the privilege!!! :shocked:

I have looked at the SEF website and it says that I either have to have a job or be self-employed here, or have a affidavit to show that I have enough funds to cover myself.

Nobody asked me yet for any proof of funds.

I am going to go to the main SEF office tomorrow and battle things out with them and take evidence of funds this time, but I just wanted to check in the meantime if anybody knows whether it is even possible to start claiming benefits after only 1 year of being in Portugal, because this comes as a surprise to me, and it would help my case if it wasn't true.

I have found a website and although it is not super-clear, it looks like I wouldn't be eligible for benefits anyway, with or without the money I have access to.

Does anyone know please?

Many thanks!


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I'm a bit lost here........ Firstly, do you have a UK passport and secondly, why did you go to the police station to get a Residencia which is usually issued by the Camara?

Assuming you do have a UK passport the normal length of a first Residencia is indeed 5 years.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

So am I lost, again you're referring to the Police, who have nothing whatsoever to do with a Residence Registration Certificate.
It is solely the responsibility of SEF Servico de Estrangeiros e Frontiers the Government Ministry in charge of Foreigners and Frontiers who have *empowered* each *Camara* not the police to act on their behalf. I did ask suggest previously that this "police" you went to might be not be the police i.e. GNR but Camara police who might be the department made responsible for registration in your Camara.

Main SEF site Portal SEF
Information on EU Nationals reguirement to register
Portal SEF
_ 
According to the provisions of Act 37/2006 of 9 August, these are the citizens who have a right to enter, remain and reside in Portugal: 

- The Nationals of all European Union Member-States (EU) that travel or reside in Portugal, as well as their family members travelling or reunifying with them; 
- The nationals of States party to the European Economic Area, Principality of Andorra and Switzerland, as well as their family members; 
- The family members of Portuguese citizens regardless of their nationality.


> If you are an EU/EEA/Switzerland citizen and intend to stay in Portugal for a period exceeding three months, please apply for your REGISTRATION CERTIFICATE FOR EU/EEA/SWITZERLAND CITIZEN_

How, where, what's reguired and cost 
Portal SEF

Funds mean you might have to prove you have money in bank here, but part of the form you sign is a declaration saying you are self sufficient and not a burden to the Portuguese Government.

I would seriously suggest forgetting the attitude "to battle things out with them" nothing is more likely to put Portuguese bureaucrats backs up, far better to say you believe a mistake has been made can you help

Any unemployment benefit (3 months) you might have been entitled would have been from the UK providing you'd registered with them that you were seeking work in Portugal and that you'd registered that fact in Portugal within 7 days of arrival and you might but unlikely have been granted an extension by the UK.
Unemployment in Portugal you'd have needed to do paid recorded work for min of 180 days in preceding 12 months for Social Unemployment Benefit and 450 days paid recorded work in preceding 2 years for Unemployment Benefit


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## Foradarede (Aug 25, 2013)

Thank you Travelling Man and Canoeman, for your responses. I shot off today without looking at my computer so have only just come back from visiting SEF followed by the Police.

When I say Police I am referring to the Polícia Municipal, who are acting on behalf of the Câmara. I did check this a couple of months ago, and SEF confirmed it today as well. 

I first went to SEF and asked them why I only had 9 months on my certificate, and he said that all he knew was that either I should have a job or I should have sufficient funds, which is what their website says too. I told him I have sufficient funds, so why only 9 months, and he shrugged his shoulders and said he didn't know, and that I would have to ask the Police.

So I went back to the Police and the chap who I had met the very first time was there and remembered me. My Portuguese is not fluent and his English wasn't either, but from what I could understand he said that things changed about a year ago and they now only give certificates to last 6 months, but he had given me 9 months because I told him I was looking for a quinta to buy.

He said that they give 6 months, and it is only once you own a home here that they will then give you a certificate for 5 years (or what would be remaining of 5 years after taking off what time you have already had).

As before the reason for this was to prevent people from trying to claim benefits.

I asked him about the scenario of someone having work, but only renting a place, and he said they would not be eligible for the 5 years either, and then what he said afterwards I didn't understand, so I am not 100% clear on the whys and wherefores, but it seems that owning a home is the No1 criteria for getting the 5 years.

For my part, I pointed out that none of the websites mention this change. The SEF website asks only for proof of work or of sufficient funds, and nowhere does it say that I need a permanent address, or anything about having to renew every 6 months. I also told him I was not eligible for unemployment benefit. I waved proof of funds under his nose because he still hadn't asked me for it. He showed me someone else's paperwork and because this person had proof of mortgage repayments they were given the 5 years. I asked what about the fact that I am going to buy a place outright without a bank loan. 

At this point he said he would phone SEF, and he did. He turned back to me and said that he could give me a new certificate for 4 years 3 months because it was clear I wasn't going to try and claim benefits and I had sufficient funds, but normally they don't do this for people unless they own a home here.

I had to pay 15 euros for the renewed certificate.

He did also say that if I had tried to get a certificate in some other city or town then perhaps they would give me the 5 years automatically, but that because they were in close contact with SEF they were the ones who were following the rules closely whereas other places were not.

So I suppose for now it would be better to avoid using Viseu for your certificate unless you own a home in this district.

Thank you again, chaps, for all your input. Things are at least resolved for me for now. Shame I had to pay double for the certificate, but better than having to pay every six months until I found a home.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Sounds to me like whoever issued the first cert cocked it up and he was trying to save face but glad to hear you got it sorted out!


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## Foradarede (Aug 25, 2013)

Thanks, Travelling Man.

I am not sure it was down to that - possibly - I suppose time will tell (because I can't!).


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

I agree with Travelling man, your first guy cocked it up, there has been no changes to rules or regulations as to the greater degree they are set by the EU and Portugal in this instance abides by those regulations, but there is local misunderstanding and application of those rules luckily few and far between these days


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I'd suggest you go elsewhere when the time comes to renew etc!


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

The change from a Resident Certificate to a Cartao de Residencia Permanente after 5 legal years residency is done at a SEF office Camaras can't do it, like Passport Cartao de Residencia Permanente has to be renewed every 10 years


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## Foradarede (Aug 25, 2013)

Do you know for sure if he cocked things up, because if so, then maybe I should try and alert someone to prevent him cocking things up with other people? He seemed pretty certain that it was down to having a permanent address, but if this is not the case then surely he should be told about it?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

You've achieved your aim which is a 5 year Residence Certificate, you're unlikely to re educate him as that makes him wrong.
It's just important making certain the next people who want to register are aware of what's reguired and the regulations so they can stand their ground.

Did you get an Astedao from the Junta you reside in as was advised as proof of your address? as this is normally sufficient you don't need to own property you just need an address

I'd also check that in your Camara it is the Municipal Police who handle registration


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## Foradarede (Aug 25, 2013)

Hi.
Yes, it is the Municipal Police that handle this on behalf of the Câmara of Viseu. This is definite.

I wasn't thinking of educating the actual man who handled my case, but perhaps pop in and let SEF or the Câmara know, as yesterday the man at SEF thought that it was just down to fund or a job.

I have never heard of an Astedão or a Junta - so no to that question.

As you say, all sorted as far as I'm concerned, but it does appear that the Police are doing this 6 month thing with everyone who doesn't have a permanent address, and if this is incorrect, then - a bit weird.

Thank you again for all your help.
Kind regards.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Afraid I doubt that they'd be interested or actually want to know because they might then need to do something

Document (Astedão) from the(Junta de Freguesia) Parish Council of where you live that officially states the address you live at note not ownership, normal document to present for numerous things here and generally asked for when registering Residence


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## Foradarede (Aug 25, 2013)

Yeah, I doubt anything would come of me saying anything.

Thanks for the info about the doc and the junta, that might come in handy when my sister comes over.

Thanks again for your help.

All the best.


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