# Immigrating to Spain from the U.S.



## Kary

We own a home in Spain. I am fluent. My partner is not. We are nearing retirement age, but do not want to retire. We have adequate assets to live for a year or two, if necessary, without working. What are the obstacles to working in Spain, if we are not coming from a European Union member country? Is employment forbidden for non-citizens? How about applying for citizenship? (which we would like to do.) We travel to Spain often, but we only know Spaniards and Brits....so no one can explain the U.S. to Spain issues.

Thanks very much for your help. We do live in Washington, DC...so the Spanish Embassy is nearby!...as well as a consulate. They have given us the paperwork requirements, but are not forthcoming about the rest. 

Kary


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## Stravinsky

Kary said:


> We own a home in Spain. I am fluent. My partner is not. We are nearing retirement age, but do not want to retire. We have adequate assets to live for a year or two, if necessary, without working. What are the obstacles to working in Spain, if we are not coming from a European Union member country? Is employment forbidden for non-citizens? How about applying for citizenship? (which we would like to do.) We travel to Spain often, but we only know Spaniards and Brits....so no one can explain the U.S. to Spain issues.
> 
> Thanks very much for your help. We do live in Washington, DC...so the Spanish Embassy is nearby!...as well as a consulate. They have given us the paperwork requirements, but are not forthcoming about the rest.
> 
> Kary


Hi Kary

Well for a start you'll need visas if you are American. If you are EU citizens then you have every right to move here and work. You just have to remember that Spain is facing the same downturn as any other country at the moment and work is not always readily available. You only need to be a resident here, not a citizen. To become a citizen you would have to renounce your present nationality status, and its not that easy anyway.

So its all down to the kind of work you are looking for and if you satisfy resident requirements


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## Kary

*Thank you for quick reply..*



Stravinsky said:


> Hi Kary
> 
> Well for a start you'll need visas if you are American. If you are EU citizens then you have every right to move here and work. You just have to remember that Spain is facing the same downturn as any other country at the moment and work is not always readily available. You only need to be a resident here, not a citizen. To become a citizen you would have to renounce your present nationality status, and its not that easy anyway.
> 
> So its all down to the kind of work you are looking for and if you satisfy resident requirements


Our Spanish friends keep saying "just fill out the residency paperwork". Seems that is indeed the correct way to go. We are U.S. citizens, not EU citizens, so therein lies the problem. The info we have is that after two years of an approved residency, the Spanish medical benefits begin....at our age, it's rather important. 
I shall get that residency paperwork started this week. It's been sitting on my desk ever since Bush got elected again in 2004!


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## Stravinsky

Kary said:


> Our Spanish friends keep saying "just fill out the residency paperwork". Seems that is indeed the correct way to go. We are U.S. citizens, not EU citizens, so therein lies the problem. The info we have is that after two years of an approved residency, the Spanish medical benefits begin....at our age, it's rather important.
> 
> I shall get that residency paperwork started this week. It's been sitting on my desk ever since Bush got elected again in 2004!


Errrrr ..... I would love to be corrected, but I dont think thats the case. As EU citizens _we_ are allowed health care under the reciprocal system with the UK if we are of retirement age, but as US citizens, unless you work here, you will need to get private health cover as there is no reciprocal arrangement between Spain and the US. Even EU residents that are not of retirement age and dont work *dont* get health care here, so I doubt you will - best check on that.

And maybe you ought to speak to someone professional rather than friends about residency as I've not heard of "approved residency" before, I thought you needed a visa to come here. Please let us know


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## Bevdeforges

As US nationals, you will need visas to live in Spain (or in any country in the EU). This page gives information about visas for Spain: Consulado de España en NuevaYork though you will have to apply through the closest Spanish consulate (probably in DC - but be sure you contact the Consulate and not the Embassy).

As Stravinsky mentioned, US citizens don't get any sort of reciprocal health care coverage because the US has no national health care program, so unless you get work visas and start contributing to the Spanish national health system, you will need to find private health insurance. (The Brits get theirs based on EU membership.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## J.O.N.

Hello Kary,

First thing, U.S. citizens have an automatic six month visa when they enter Spain, to renew it all you have to do is exit the European Community for 24 hours. When you return your six months start again from the date stamped on your passport. That stamp on your pass port and your driver’s license from your home state entitle you to drive in Spain for that six month period. 

Second, legal employment requires resident papers. To be granted resident status you need to fill out forms and present a series of documents. Among the documents you must present are a birth certificate and proof of a clean criminal record, both must be certified by the U.S. State Department complying with HAYA criteria (don’t worry about it, the people at the State
Department know what it is) and be less than six months old. You must also present either a
contract of employment or a letter of intent from an employer to prove that you will be employed. If you do not have a job lined up, then you must demonstrate that you have an adequate source of income and proof of private health insurance to demonstrate that you will not be a burden on the Spanish health care system. A simple letter from a Spanish Bank stating that you have independent means should be sufficient, and a copy of your insurance card and or contract with a currently active date is acceptable. You also need to bring in your actual passport as well as copies of EVERY one of it’s pages, be they stamped or not. You also need to recent pictures, I forget the exact proportions, but there is usually a place near “Extranjeria” where you can get the right ones for a few Euros. You also need to have an established domicile and a certificate if “Padron” (don’t worry, when you go to “Extranjeria” to get your forms, you can ask them where to get the “Empadronamiento” and they’ll tell you)

This link should be of some help: 

.: Ministerio del Interior (España) - Extranjeria :.

The whole process takes about 30 days, if there are no holidays in between. At the end you will receive your resident card, which is good for one year. After that you renew for two years, and the next one for five (it's a pemanent resident card but it has to be renewed every five years). The application process seems up hill and tedious, but you'll get thru it, the good news is that renewal is much simpler.

Mind you, it’s been a while since I went thru the process, and I’m convinced that I have missed
some documents, but I am certain that the only two that you are going to need to bring with you
from the States are the ones that must be certified by the State Department.

I hope this helps, if you have any specific questions feel free to ask and I will do my best to get you an answer.

J.O.N.


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## Bevdeforges

Hi J.O.N. - I suspect the rules may have changed since you went through the process. (They sure have since I first came to Europe!) This is from the Spanish consulate website:

All foreigners who do not hold the nationality of a European Union member state, Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Switzerland, *and who wish to remain in Spain more than ninety days out of every six months*, must in all cases apply for a long-term visa.

Though the EU has left immigration regulations in the national arena, they have "standardised" on a few things and this is one of them.

The other thing that US citizens should know is that the "clean police record" document for the US is an FBI rap sheet. You have to submit your fingerprints to the FBI (on their form - can't use a standard local police form) along with $18 to get the form returned with a little stamp saying "no record found." (Or at least that's what you're hoping for.  )

If you get the form from the local FBI office, your local police department may do the fingerprints for free. If you wait until you get overseas, the Consulates charge something like 35€ to do the fingerprinting.

Nothing is simple anymore! 
Cheers,
Bev


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## Stravinsky

And the other thing to mention is that a US driving licence is _not_ valid in Spain if you are a _permanent_ resident here. I can keep my UK licence here or swap it for a Spanish one as I am an EU citizen, but a non EU citizen from a country where there is no reciprocal arrangement cannot. I also have to fall in with Spanish local law which means I must have a medical periodically and have a certificate to prove that.

And yes, I'm sure a lot of people do drive on foreign licences, but what happens in the event of an accident I dread to think.


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## Kary

Stravinsky said:


> And the other thing to mention is that a US driving licence is _not_ valid in Spain if you are a _permanent_ resident here. I can keep my UK licence here or swap it for a Spanish one as I am an EU citizen, but a non EU citizen from a country where there is no reciprocal arrangement cannot. I also have to fall in with Spanish local law which means I must have a medical periodically and have a certificate to prove that.
> 
> And yes, I'm sure a lot of people do drive on foreign licences, but what happens in the event of an accident I dread to think.



Thanks to everyone for the very valuable info. I'm going to go to the consulate here in D.C. and get clear on all the paperwork that is currently required. Does anyone have any idea about the cost of first class health insurance when we don't qualify for the Spanish national health plan? 

Kary


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## J.O.N.

﻿Hi,

The basic problem with Spain in this sense is that the information at the consulates and
embassies differs from what they tell you en Extranjeria. Extranjeria does things according to
their rules and policies, regardless of what the consulates and/or embassies have as current
information. As far as the clean police record, finger prints are not a requirement at local police stations, they just give you a form to fill, ask for an ID and submit the information thru the NCIC computer, which is the FBI data base. All they care about in extranjeria is that the document has the seal from the HAYA and that it is less than six months old. As far as visas for U.S. citizens, they are based on the accord established between the U.S. and the country of reference, the best way to make sure the six months still apply is to call an airline and ask if you can buy a ticket to Spain from the U.S. with a return date six months later. By Federal Law, tickets bought in the U.S. cannot exceed the legal length of stay by an U.S. citizen in the country being visited. Of these things I am certain, but, please contact extranjeria and have them explain the process and the requirements for legal residency in Spain, after all they are the ones that process the application and the ones that grant or deny the requests. By the way What Stravinsky mentioned about the U.S. drivers license not being valid after residency is established is correct. After you become a legal resident you have to take the driver’s test to get a Spanish driver’s license, and I warn you, from personal experience that test is brutal, I place it right there with the LSAT as one of the most horrific tests I’ve had to take.

Best of luck,
J.O.N.


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## Stravinsky

Kary said:


> Thanks to everyone for the very valuable info. I'm going to go to the consulate here in D.C. and get clear on all the paperwork that is currently required. Does anyone have any idea about the cost of first class health insurance when we don't qualify for the Spanish national health plan?
> 
> Kary



We pay about €1200 a year for a couple in mid fifties


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## Kary

Stravinsky said:


> We pay about €1200 a year for a couple in mid fifties



Wow! First class health insurance in the states now runs about $12,000 U.S. per person per year! for absolute first class ......late 50's. Unbelievable, I know. I'm employed and so is my partner, so it's not an issue. Medicare and Medicaid kick in at 65. Our friends in Madrid (Spaniards in their 60's) pay about $1000 U.S. per person per year for supplemental health coverage.


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## Burriana Babs

Kary said:


> We own a home in Spain. I am fluent. My partner is not. We are nearing retirement age, but do not want to retire. We have adequate assets to live for a year or two, if necessary, without working. What are the obstacles to working in Spain, if we are not coming from a European Union member country? Is employment forbidden for non-citizens? How about applying for citizenship? (which we would like to do.) We travel to Spain often, but we only know Spaniards and Brits....so no one can explain the U.S. to Spain issues.
> 
> Thanks very much for your help. We do live in Washington, DC...so the Spanish Embassy is nearby!...as well as a consulate. They have given us the paperwork requirements, but are not forthcoming about the rest.
> 
> Kary


Well you will need to obtain residency along with your NIE number before you will be able to work legally in Spain. That process will take you about 3 to 4 months unless you can do it at the Embassy near you. I would suggest you hire a gestoria to do this for you as it is complicating and time consuming and they will do all the leg work, and you will only need to show up to appointments.

Hope this helps. Where will you be locating to?


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## Kary

Burriana Babs said:


> Well you will need to obtain residency along with your NIE number before you will be able to work legally in Spain. That process will take you about 3 to 4 months unless you can do it at the Embassy near you. I would suggest you hire a gestoria to do this for you as it is complicating and time consuming and they will do all the leg work, and you will only need to show up to appointments.
> 
> Hope this helps. Where will you be locating to?



Thank you so much. We have an NIE number (because we have had the house for 6 years (in Moraira...Alicante) and pay taxes there. But I didn't know we could just hire an agency to handle all this. Do you have any names of agencies? I would love to just hand this over.....I am not a detail kinda guy. We do have a law firm in Moraira that handles all our taxation and other stuff. Should I contact them?


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## Bevdeforges

Kary said:


> Wow! First class health insurance in the states now runs about $12,000 U.S. per person per year! for absolute first class ......late 50's. Unbelievable, I know. I'm employed and so is my partner, so it's not an issue. Medicare and Medicaid kick in at 65. Our friends in Madrid (Spaniards in their 60's) pay about $1000 U.S. per person per year for supplemental health coverage.


Be careful - Medicare and Medicaid will do you no good outside the US unless you plan to return to the US for all treatment. At age 65, private health care gets considerably more expensive unless you are qualified for the local (Spanish) national health.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Burriana Babs

Kary said:


> Wow! First class health insurance in the states now runs about $12,000 U.S. per person per year! for absolute first class ......late 50's. Unbelievable, I know. I'm employed and so is my partner, so it's not an issue. Medicare and Medicaid kick in at 65. Our friends in Madrid (Spaniards in their 60's) pay about $1000 U.S. per person per year for supplemental health coverage.


Yes coverage here for a good policy of health care will run you about 1200 Euros a year. The US is very expensive. But even here your US Medicare will not cover you. You will need to have a private coverage and there are some very good ones reasonable priced. I have no complaints with Sanitas thatis for sure.


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## Stravinsky

Kary said:


> Thank you so much. We have an NIE number (because we have had the house for 6 years (in Moraira...Alicante) and pay taxes there. But I didn't know we could just hire an agency to handle all this. Do you have any names of agencies? I would love to just hand this over.....I am not a detail kinda guy. We do have a law firm in Moraira that handles all our taxation and other stuff. Should I contact them?


A gestoria is far cheaper than a solicitor to handle tax matters, and many specialise in tax matters. My gestoria charges just €60 for a tax return


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## Kary

Stravinsky said:


> A gestoria is far cheaper than a solicitor to handle tax matters, and many specialise in tax matters. My gestoria charges just €60 for a tax return


Given that the solicitors charge us about 200 Euros a year just to fill out 5 minutes worth of paper work, I think I'll ask THEM for a local gestoria! Heh, heh
Thanks very much. Or our Dutch Neighbor, who has lived there for 20 years and knows everybody. Thanks very much for the tip.


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## J.O.N.

﻿About Medicare and Ex-Pats.

If I’m not mistaken Medicare works according to what they call the participant rate and the non-participant rate. What that means is that according to the state or territory for procedure X medicare pays up to one amount if the procedure is performed by a practitioner inside the medicare net, and another if it is performed by a practitioner outside the medicare net. In cases where the services are performed outside the net, the patient needs to fill the HCFA 1500 form using the procedure and diagnostic codes from the ICD9 (in my time it was the ICD9 but I haven’t dealt with Medicare since 2005 and there probably is an ICD10 by now). The form must then be signed and accompanied by a receipt of what the patient paid for the procedure. Medicare will then process the claim applying the lower of the rates, what you paid or their non-participant fee, deduct your annual deductible and corresponding co-payment and reimburse you according to that. Like I said I have not dealt with Medicare since 2005, and that was before part C was added so the exact procedure for pharmacy coverage is beyond my experience so you should contact HCFA to find out what you need to do to get back some of your pharmaceutical expenses. So keep all your medical expense receipts and file for reimbursement, you spent a whole life contributing to the medicare fund, don’t surrender what is rightfully yours. Call Medicare explain your situation and have them explain the procedure to your. Remember, Medicare is part of the Social Security program, just because you are now a resident of another country does not mean that you forfeit your Social Security benefits. 

Hope this helps,

J.O.N.


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## Bevdeforges

J.O.N. said:


> About Medicare and Ex-Pats.
> 
> If I’m not mistaken Medicare works according to what they call the participant rate and the non-participant rate. What that means is that according to the state or territory for procedure X medicare pays up to one amount if the procedure is performed by a practitioner inside the medicare net, and another if it is performed by a practitioner outside the medicare net. In cases where the services are performed outside the net, the patient needs to fill the HCFA 1500 form using the procedure and diagnostic codes from the ICD9 (in my time it was the ICD9 but I haven’t dealt with Medicare since 2005 and there probably is an ICD10 by now). The form must then be signed and accompanied by a receipt of what the patient paid for the procedure. Medicare will then process the claim applying the lower of the rates, what you paid or their non-participant fee, deduct your annual deductible and corresponding co-payment and reimburse you according to that. Like I said I have not dealt with Medicare since 2005, and that was before part C was added so the exact procedure for pharmacy coverage is beyond my experience so you should contact HCFA to find out what you need to do to get back some of your pharmaceutical expenses. So keep all your medical expense receipts and file for reimbursement, you spent a whole life contributing to the medicare fund, don’t surrender what is rightfully yours. Call Medicare explain your situation and have them explain the procedure to your. Remember, Medicare is part of the Social Security program, just because you are now a resident of another country does not mean that you forfeit your Social Security benefits.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> J.O.N.


J.O.N. - you need to check the Medicare website. There is a 4 page publication ( http://www.medicare.gov/Publications/Pubs/pdf/11037.pdf) that explains coverage outside the US.

Basically, Medicare only covers you if you get sick in the US but the closest hospital is in Canada or Mexico. Or if you get sick on board a cruise ship less than six hours out of a US port.

You may not forfeit your social security benefits by living outside the US, but you do give up your Medicare benefits unless you're willing to return to the US (on your dime) whenever you need treatment.

Those who retired from the military and receive Tristar benefits have a better deal, as Tristar apparently does cover overseas treatment.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Stravinsky

As a general rule of thumb us lepers loose all rights to home medical cover when we decide to leave our mother country permanently. I went home last year and needed to see a doctor. Having contributed to the system for 35 years I was told I could not see a doctor and had to pay privately.


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## Bevdeforges

Stravinsky said:


> As a general rule of thumb us lepers loose all rights to home medical cover when we decide to leave our mother country permanently. I went home last year and needed to see a doctor. Having contributed to the system for 35 years I was told I could not see a doctor and had to pay privately.


The US Medicare program is a bit more liberal than that. Once you start receiving social security benefits (usually retirement) you can enroll for the various parts of Medicare. So IF you want to pay around $100 a month for the rest of your life you can get Medicare to pay for treatment* if you return to the US for it.* Prescription coverage is separate, and of course they won't pay for anything prescribed outside the US or obtained from anything other than a US pharmacy (plus other restrictions depending on the insurer).

Medicare part A is a type of major medical coverage that is available to anyone receiving US social security benefits - and doesn't cost anything, though you do have to enroll for it when you first claim your retirement benefits. Again, though, it only covers you if you have your emergency or fall ill while in the US, something that is really tough to arrange.  
Cheers,
Bev


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## Stravinsky

Bevdeforges said:


> The US Medicare program is a bit more liberal than that. Once you start receiving social security benefits (usually retirement) you can enroll for the various parts of Medicare. So IF you want to pay around $100 a month for the rest of your life you can get Medicare to pay for treatment* if you return to the US for it.* Prescription coverage is separate, and of course they won't pay for anything prescribed outside the US or obtained from anything other than a US pharmacy (plus other restrictions depending on the insurer).
> 
> Medicare part A is a type of major medical coverage that is available to anyone receiving US social security benefits - and doesn't cost anything, though you do have to enroll for it when you first claim your retirement benefits. Again, though, it only covers you if you have your emergency or fall ill while in the US, something that is really tough to arrange.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Regrettably that option doesn't exist for us  Its not much use for someone who is regularly needing medical attention then is it I guess, as the flight bills could be horrendous


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## Kary

J.O.N. said:


> About Medicare and Ex-Pats.
> 
> If I’m not mistaken Medicare works according to what they call the participant rate and the non-participant rate. What that means is that according to the state or territory for procedure X medicare pays up to one amount if the procedure is performed by a practitioner inside the medicare net, and another if it is performed by a practitioner outside the medicare net. In cases where the services are performed outside the net, the patient needs to fill the HCFA 1500 form using the procedure and diagnostic codes from the ICD9 (in my time it was the ICD9 but I haven’t dealt with Medicare since 2005 and there probably is an ICD10 by now). The form must then be signed and accompanied by a receipt of what the patient paid for the procedure. Medicare will then process the claim applying the lower of the rates, what you paid or their non-participant fee, deduct your annual deductible and corresponding co-payment and reimburse you according to that. Like I said I have not dealt with Medicare since 2005, and that was before part C was added so the exact procedure for pharmacy coverage is beyond my experience so you should contact HCFA to find out what you need to do to get back some of your pharmaceutical expenses. So keep all your medical expense receipts and file for reimbursement, you spent a whole life contributing to the medicare fund, don’t surrender what is rightfully yours. Call Medicare explain your situation and have them explain the procedure to your. Remember, Medicare is part of the Social Security program, just because you are now a resident of another country does not mean that you forfeit your Social Security benefits.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> J.O.N.


Thank you very much for this info. Seems fair and reasonable. And of course the govmt would be that way! Our plans have been delayed briefly, but our intention is to be in Spain permanently by spring 2010.


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## ConnieM

*Adequate source of income*



> If you do not have a job lined up, then you must demonstrate that you have an adequate source of income and proof of private health insurance to demonstrate that you will not be a burden on the Spanish health care system. A simple letter from a Spanish Bank stating that you have independent means should be sufficient, and a copy of your insurance card and or contract with a currently active date is acceptable.


Is proof of income for the duration of the residence visa sufficient? The first visa being a year, the second being two and so on, or do you need several years worth of expenses saved to be granted even the first visa? Does international freelancing count as a source of income?


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