# moving to Italy in 2020?



## suiko

hi all

I used to live in Naples many moons ago but made a Faustian bargain to go back to the UK for work reasons 20 years ago, but always wanted to live in S Europe in the long term....

Now the battle has been lost I am fairly convinced that if I want to live in the EU in future I need to move there before the end of 2020. I haven't done this so far because my work teaching English in Italy is going to be a whole lot less lucrative and rewarding than my job here in England.

But time seems to have come to bite that bullet. I intend to sell my house here and buy a smaller one, renting it out but keeping a room for myself to use from time to time. I have rental income from a flat here, and will hopefully have more from the smaller house I intend to buy. I'm 55 so will presumably leave my pension inactive until I need it. I will initially rent in Spain rather than buy - there's no special reason to buy right now, as I will presumably need to work in a city and would rather buy in a village. I am likely to be moving in autumn 2020, probably to Italy.

My question:

The only work likely to be available for me is EFL teaching in private academies. I did this for many years and have qualifications (though unused for these 20 years).
1. I have seen that almost all jobs now demand an EU passport. Obviously I will have one during 2020, but what happens when I need to get a new contract for the 2021-2 academic year?
2. Teaching jobs of this kind hardly ever generate more than a nine-month contract. How will this affect my residency rights? Is a permanent contract required?


Many thanks for any advice 

Mark


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## b0ll0cks-to-brexit

???


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## GeordieBorn

Are you going to Spain or Italy OR is it either?


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## suiko

Not sure yet. I've lived in both and love both. And the issue now is to get into the EU, no?


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## GeordieBorn

Sorry, but your post above was saying both!
For Italy, I would be surprised if they did not want up to date qualifications and getting work is generally difficult. I think the EU passport will be a problem. I don't think the 9 months is an issue at all. 
Have you looked into taking your pension early?


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## NickZ

Most schools are going to want mother tongue teachers. Right now that's UK and Ireland if limited to EU. Obviously afterwards they'll either need to switch to accepting UK workers (along with North Americans and ANZ) or depend on only Irish workers.

THe problem I see is would a nine month contract pay you enough to get residence?


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## suiko

No issue with qualifications. I have far better ones than most of the competition, and there's always demand for English classes. I know the EFL industry - worked in it for 15 years!

The EU passport is indeed a bigger issue. Though there will be a lot of vacancies going if they suddenly can't employ Brits - just not enough Irish to go round!

Leaving work aside...What is the situation in Italy assuming I were to "retire" (though I probably don't have enough money to do this right now)? I guess they are asking for proof of income and private healthcare, as in Spain?


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## suiko

NickZ said:


> Most schools are going to want mother tongue teachers. Right now that's UK and Ireland if limited to EU. Obviously afterwards they'll either need to switch to accepting UK workers (along with North Americans and ANZ) or depend on only Irish workers.
> 
> THe problem I see is would a nine month contract pay you enough to get residence?


Thanks, Nick.

Yes. Given that most such teachers currently are Brits currently and there are only a few million Irish, I would imagine they may have to make some kind of exception here, assuming that middle-class Italian parents won't be too thrilled with having Polish or Romanian (or indeed Italian) English teachers.

I would have other income from rentals in UK - but why should residency cost money as such? My worry with the (inevitable) none-month contracts is that they may demand a continuous work contract?


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## GeordieBorn

At the moment you get in as a UK citizen, would need around 6-8k (can’t recall exactly how much) per year income. Yes, you would officially need health insurance (we were never asked for it), but in a number of regions you can pay voluntary contributions, again I can’t recall the exact amount, but it was well under 1k per year (maybe under 400?). No one knows how it will pan out with Brexit, but I reckon at worst you would have to apply yearly to stay.


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## suiko

GeordieBorn said:


> At the moment you get in as a UK citizen, would need around 6-8k (can’t recall exactly how much) per year income. Yes, you would officially need health insurance (we were never asked for it), but in a number of regions you can pay voluntary contributions, again I can’t recall the exact amount, but it was well under 1k per year (maybe under 400?). No one knows how it will pan out with Brexit, but I reckon at worst you would have to apply yearly to stay.


Thanks a lot for the info. So yes, it does sound a lot better than Spain in these respects.


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## NickZ

If you're working your health care is covered by your taxes. That's a non issue if you have a work contract.

It's not that residency costs money it's that the EU doesn't want people moving to the area with the best hand outs. I think Spain and Italy have fairly similar income levels


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## suiko

I guess in the case of Italy the process would begin, at least this year, with a visit to the local Questura, either with or without a work contract?


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## Joy4Life

Hi,

My only comment on this is DO NOT LIMIT YOURSELF by not thinking broadly enough. Teaching English as Foreign Language is a skill and sounds like you have solid experience in this. So as I see, the potential you have here covers atleast:
- Schools in all grades, both private and public
- vocational schools where focus is more on professional use of language instead of generic studies (e.g. Tourism & Hospitality schools)
- companies working globally or targeting customers globally

And in terms of how to be employed, then it would offer you:
- to be employed by a local employer
- by a foreign company operating in Italy
- working as independent contractor/consultant

Working independently would then give you the option of working with all of the above target groups. But in addition you could think of doing material to be consumed online by e.g. selling courses in places like Udemy.com. This type of work is smart in the sense that you create content only ones and afterwards it would be passive income based on volumes of people buying and enrolling to your courses.


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## suiko

In order to ensure residency as an EU citizen, how long before 31 December would I need to move to Italy, and what steps would I need to take?

Was hoping to have got further with this by now, but obviously COVID has slowed everything to a halt :-(


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## NickZ

I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking how long the local town office will take for you? Hopefully somebody with a non Italian passport will come along to correct me but I'll give you a basic outline.

You need a place to live. That usually means either a rental contract or home purchase.

Not being Italian you'd need to either meet the income requirements which means a job contract or have the required cash amount available.

You'll need health care.

You will need to take all the paperwork to the local office including your ID. You'll than have to wait for the visit by the local police.

How long? In a small town with nobody in line same day. In a large city with a backlog? It might take you a few weeks.

The forms can be downloaded from many city websites. 

https://www.comune.roma.it/resources/cms/documents/cae347415ebb244c525f690dd8ed5779.pdf

That's the form from Rome. Every town uses the same form .


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## GeordieBorn

... in addition to Nick's list, your id will need a verified translation into Italian. Our small town took about 2 month to get a letter of confirmation.


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## suiko

Thank you!

I'm really asking about how long before 31 December I will need to move in order to ensure my residency rights as an EU citizen.

I am applying for EFL jobs, but obviously it's all a bit up in the air at the moment, and so I am working out a back-up plan for moving without a job.

Any experience of the cheapest option for health insurance, in the event that I don't manage to find a job? 

And how much cash do I need to be able to show (presumably in an Italian bank account - are online banks allowed?)


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## NickZ

I think it's a little over €6k. Technically any Eurozone bank is supposed to be equal. Doesn't matter if it's online or brick and mortar. I think all the Italian banks have online services. There is also ING but I don't know if they're being allowed to sign up new customers. They got in trouble for being naughty boys.


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## suiko

hello again

OK, well now I have a job offer, as an English teacher.

However, the salary is a quarter of what I earn now in the UK, and I'm not wildly enthusiastic about the job (it's what I did 25 years ago).

My question is:

What fundamental rights will I get now by making the financial sacrifice of moving now, in order to preserve (some of) my rights as an EU citizen under the WA, rights which I would not have if I were to retire to Italy in 3 or 4 years time?

*I would really appreciate it if someone could specify what specific advantage there would be in moving this year. *

I know that on a retirement visa I'd need to prove a relatively high level of income, and that I wouldn't be able to work formally (not so much of an issue as I'm 56 and not keen to be an EFL teacher in a school, which is pretty much the only option available). And that this type of visa would need to be renewed regularly. Is there anything else?

The ultimate goal is, of course, citizenship.


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## NickZ

suiko said:


> The ultimate goal is, of course, citizenship.


I've no idea what's in the WA but

You'll be that many years closer to the status of long term resident.

You'll be closer to the ten years required for citizenship.


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## Eliora

Been there done that EFL teacher in an Italian school ( in Rome). My advice is don't. Cultural shock dealing with both students, their parents and your co-workers is overwhelming even for the best of us ( others I know who have tried the same route). Usually we last a few months to half a term, either with a termination or just happy to quit. Not saying you can't use it to get yourself over there. I feel you need to know this route is not as easy as it sounds. Italian children are more different from your own culture than you would expect, and so are their parents.



suiko said:


> hello again
> I know that on a retirement visa I'd need to prove a relatively high level of income, and that I wouldn't be able to work formally (not so much of an issue as I'm 56 and not keen to be an EFL teacher in a school, which is pretty much the only option available). And that this type of visa would need to be renewed regularly. Is there anything else?
> 
> The ultimate goal is, of course, citizenship.


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## suiko

Eliora said:


> Been there done that EFL teacher in an Italian school ( in Rome). My advice is don't. Cultural shock dealing with both students, their parents and your co-workers is overwhelming even for the best of us ( others I know who have tried the same route). Usually we last a few months to half a term, either with a termination or just happy to quit. Not saying you can't use it to get yourself over there. I feel you need to know this route is not as easy as it sounds. Italian children are more different from your own culture than you would expect, and so are their parents.


It's OK, but I already did this, thanks - for 14 years, some of which were in Naples. And I quite liked most of the kids. So I know the score


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## r0adrunner

I am also interested in moving to Italy to fulfill a long-held ambition to live there.

I am 49 and have an English teaching qualification (CELTA from 2003) and have some teaching experience. While I am not as experienced as you, I think I could develop into a reasonable teacher.

I am starting to look for jobs but have heard that many are gained on-the-spot. I have also read that increasingly schools offer only part-time hours, forcing teachers to work for more than one school.

Like yourself I will be taking a hit financially even if I get 20 to 24 hours of teaching a week. I also read it would be difficult to get an employment contract from a school which presumably will have consequences for tax and social insurance / pension contributions.

I would also want citizenship eventually.


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## r0adrunner

Are language schools likely to re-open in September?


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## r0adrunner

Do you know if it is usually better to arrange a job in advance or find one when you have arrived?

Many thanks.


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## NickZ

Roadrunner you need to fill a few things in?

Status? EU national or?

If you're an EU national you could try showing up and looking for a job. If you aren't you'll need a visa and that won't happen without a job contract. 

I doubt if anybody knows what will be open come autumn. Right now the plan for normal schools is to reopen Sept 14th but even that is being contested by the people involved.


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## r0adrunner

I'm a UK national.

Many thanks for the advice and information.

Am I right in thinking when it comes to competition in an on the spot job hunt, there would be fewer English teachers seeking employment in southern Italy compared to further north?


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## NickZ

Maybe but there are likely less jobs. 

The big advantage of going further south is a lower cost of living. At least for the most part.


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