# Do you want to emigrate to Spain?



## Pesky Wesky

What advice would you give to people who wish to emigrate from the UK to Spain?

I'll start the ball rolling by stating the obvious ...

Learn as much Spanish as is humanly possible for you. The more you learn the better, even if you want to be in an area dominated by the Brits, you will receive correspondence in Spanish and will possibly find youself in situations where Spanish will be needed. Think about the emergency room at the hospital with no interpreter available, stopped at a checkpoint by the police, trying to get the phone fixed and speaking to the call centre of the biggest phone company here, Telefónica.(Actually if you get anyone to answer your call you'll probably fall over in shock, but that's a diferent story!!)

There are different types of people who may want to move; retired people, young people with families, young people with no ties, people passing through, middle aged people whose children have left home.... They all have different needs, but all of them will have an improved existence if they learn the language. 
Two more points;
Not all of us are language learners, that's why I say learn as much as YOU can. Effort is needed, children might soak it up, but adults usually need more of a "scrub" to make it stick. Usually local people like to see that you're making an effort, and that effort will be appreciated. Likewise the opposite will also be noted.

There are various local languages in Spain including Catalan and Euskera (Basque). Before you come to Spain you need to know what's what in the area you're going to, especially if you have children (think about the schools). You may end up having to learn two new languages! I emphasise Spanish because all Spaniards speak Spanish - even if some don't like to!

More advice from people who are already living in Spain????


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## justine

I would like to go to Spain, since i am of Spanish decent but don't have a great command of it. Like you, I want to improve my Spanish language. They say people there don't want to speak to you in other languages. Food is also very good, and I think, people are friendlier.


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## xabiaxica

justine said:


> I would like to go to Spain, since i am of Spanish decent but don't have a great command of it. Like you, I want to improve my Spanish language. They say people there don't want to speak to you in other languages. Food is also very good, and I think, people are friendlier.


the problem where I live is that they all want to practice speaking English to you!!

joking aside, of course it's better if you learn to speak Spanish - you miss out on so much otherwise


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## mrypg9

My additional advice (Mary's Ten Commandments for Considering a Move to Spain )would be:
1) Remove all fanciful ideals of 'living the dream' from your head. THINK REAL. This is a very important mindset with which to be starting your planning.
2) Either have a job in the UK which you can continue with in Spain or have a firm offer of a well-paid job before you even think of getting out your suitcase.
3) If you are a plasterer, brickie, general handyman, beautician, cleaner, child-minder or similar: stay home. Do not advance to go. Plan a holiday in Spain, not a new life.
4) Same applies if you have no profession, skill or trade whatsoever but are 'prepared to work very hard at anything for any wage'. Yes, you may find a job like that but it's called slavery and was abolished by law two centuries ago. You will find yourself living a nightmare, not a dream.
5) If you have a UK property, do not sell it. Rent, You may be back.
6) Have a sum of money as back-up capital - I would say £25k -to cover all misfortunes and other eventualities.
7) Remove from your mind all illusions of a land of constant sunshine and happy smiling faces around swimming pools sipping Pimms. Yes, this could happen to you - but equally you could end up in an Alcatraz-like urb with a communal pool like a crowded fishtank and the neighbours from the council estate from hell next door. And it is very cold and wet in winter.
8) Read up on the economic situation in Spain. There is currently 20% unemployment and prospects for growth are not good.
9) Similarly, read up on the very many rules and regulations which you will be obliged to observe if you come to live in Spain. Spain is no different from anywhere else - it imposes obligations on would-be residents.
10) If at all possible, wait until you are retired or have amassed enough capital to live here without having to worry about the employment situation. Enjoy frequent holidays here, explore Spain's many and diverse regions and view them as preparation for your eventual safe and carefree move.


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## xabiaxica

mrypg9 said:


> My additional advice (Mary's Ten Commandments for Considering a Move to Spain )would be:
> 1) Remove all fanciful ideals of 'living the dream' from your head. THINK REAL. This is a very important mindset with which to be starting your planning.
> 2) Either have a job in the UK which you can continue with in Spain or have a firm offer of a well-paid job before you even think of getting out your suitcase.
> 3) If you are a plasterer, brickie, general handyman, beautician, cleaner, child-minder or similar: stay home. Do not advance to go. Plan a holiday in Spain, not a new life.
> 4) Same applies if you have no profession, skill or trade whatsoever but are 'prepared to work very hard at anything for any wage'. Yes, you may find a job like that but it's called slavery and was abolished by law two centuries ago. You will find yourself living a nightmare, not a dream.
> 5) If you have a UK property, do not sell it. Rent, You may be back.
> 6) Have a sum of money as back-up capital - I would say £25k -to cover all misfortunes and other eventualities.
> 7) Remove from your mind all illusions of a land of constant sunshine and happy smiling faces around swimming pools sipping Pimms. Yes, this could happen to you - but equally you could end up in an Alcatraz-like urb with a communal pool like a crowded fishtank and the neighbours from the council estate from hell next door. And it is very cold and wet in winter.
> 8) Read up on the economic situation in Spain. There is currently 20% unemployment and prospects for growth are not good.
> 9) Similarly, read up on the very many rules and regulations which you will be obliged to observe if you come to live in Spain. Spain is no different from anywhere else - it imposes obligations on would-be residents.
> 10) If at all possible, wait until you are retired or have amassed enough capital to live here without having to worry about the employment situation. Enjoy frequent holidays here, explore Spain's many and diverse regions and view them as preparation for your eventual safe and carefree move.


you'll have people thinking we just want to keep the place to ourselves!!



but seriously - as harsh as some of those 10 commandments might sound - I'd agree with them all......................


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## jimenato

Mary's just about said it all. 

Having said that we broke most of the rules and are doing fine. We didn't plan anything, in fact when we left England we didn't even know we were coming to Spain - we just sort of ended up here. I wouldn't do it now though...


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## Stravinsky

If you have to work, don't bother ..... unless you have contacts here or a job lined up. Bring enough dosh to sustain you for at least 12 months

Don't buy a place, especially if it's a "box" on a big urb. You'll probably never sell it. Rentals are cheap and if it all goes bad you aren't left with a house you can't sell.

Spend a long long time researching all aspects of living here, including especially health, tax and inheritance law. Don't listen just to UK accountants ... contrary to belief they are not all experts in Spanish tax law and see it only from one side.

Keep your place in the UK, you may need it.

Do not go into a bar and ask for a pint of bitter, especially if I am in there. You will end up wearing it.


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## mrypg9

jimenato said:


> Mary's just about said it all.
> 
> Having said that we broke most of the rules and are doing fine. We didn't plan anything, in fact when we left England we didn't even know we were coming to Spain - we just sort of ended up here. I wouldn't do it now though...



And that's my point.
Even five years ago, things were different.


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## Alcalaina

I agree with all the above. One more to add, based on observation of several people in my own little community: if you are thinking of retiring to Spain, consider your family ties "back home" . Do you have ageing parents you might have to go back and care for? Do you have, or expect to have, grandchildren? One of the most common reasons retired people give for wanting to move back is because they miss watching their grandchildren grow up.

Better perhaps to spend that pension lump sum on a little holiday home where you can come and enjoy all that Spain has to offer, without burning your boats.


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## mrypg9

Alcalaina said:


> I agree with all the above. One more to add, based on observation of several people in my own little community: if you are thinking of retiring to Spain, consider your family ties "back home" . Do you have ageing parents you might have to go back and care for? Do you have, or expect to have, grandchildren? One of the most common reasons retired people give for wanting to move back is because they miss watching their grandchildren grow up.
> 
> Better perhaps to spend that pension lump sum on a little holiday home where you can come and enjoy all that Spain has to offer, without burning your boats.



Yes, there is that to it.......for some people. 
My son and dil have a house five minutes from us and one or the other or both are here every month. It's nice as they sleep in their place and we meet up for lunch/dinner either here, at theirs or out but we still have our own space. So it's not possible to miss them.
We cut down on friends visiting after having virtually monthly visits during our years in Prague. We now have a short list of 'approved guests'. 
I'm afraid I'd rather have watched the sun reflecting on my swimming pool than watch my grandchildren grow up.....but I must say it was very pleasant hosting my sixteen-year-old grandson when I brought him back from the UK with me .
But then I am not over-fond of the young, generally speaking.


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## 90199

Goodness me! whosoever reads this thread will probably be put off forever.

All I can add is, research your selected area, rent do not buy until you are absolutely sure, visit other areas that might be more suitable for you. Then once you have made the decision, do it, don't dither or you will never go.

Learn the language!! It is a must!! go to night/day school with a native Spanish speaker, one of mine was from Bariloche in Argentina.

The only thing I am not in agreement is keeping a property in the U.K., we found that our bungalow was just a worry, so sold everything, house, business, car, van, children, grandchildren everything. 

We now live on the remote Atlantic Island of El Hierro, that I first saw from the island of La Palma in 1995 and arrived here the same year. I rented on and off for five years, mainly long holiday rents, bought in 2000, and here we are.

Personally, I cannot envisage any circumstances for living in the U.K., this is home, these now are my people. I know that because when I have ventured away. It is so wonderful to return home.


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## weluvspain

to someone planning to move in april next year it all sounds very scary reading all these comments!!!! 

i am lucky enough toi have a boss that has said i can continue to work in spain as long as it proves do-able and until i find something else.

my daughter and i have a spanish tutor at the moment, although we do speak a little spanish already and we are bringing substantial funds to last around 2 years.

with all this in mind- should i still be having doubts???


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## Stravinsky

weluvspain said:


> to someone planning to move in april next year it all sounds very scary reading all these comments!!!!
> 
> i am lucky enough toi have a boss that has said i can continue to work in spain as long as it proves do-able and until i find something else.
> 
> my daughter and i have a spanish tutor at the moment, although we do speak a little spanish already and we are bringing substantial funds to last around 2 years.
> 
> with all this in mind- should i still be having doubts???


No.

You sound as if you have things set up to start with. Many people come over here with no thought or real research and end up in trouble.

Don't count on easily finding work though (depending on what you do), as unemployment is high at the moment here


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## 90199

Go for it!


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## weluvspain

thanks Stravinsky & Hepa, i have tried to research as much as poosible hence our move not being until next year but i have had many people tell me that is makes a change to find someone that does research..................................... can't imagine unprooting my family without trying to cover every possible hurdle!

i understand the employment situation is terrible at the min so that is why i was pleased my boss said i could still work for him. i wont be doing the same as i do now but i will earn enough to help put food on the table until we settle and find our feet.

we are all very excited about the prospect of moving-any advice on things we may have not considered or may have overlooked that people dont always consider would be great??

thanks again


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## Pesky Wesky

Not aimed at anyone in particular!

There are no laws about who's going to make a success of their move and who isn't, but it stands to reason that the more you find out before you come the better understanding you'll have of where you're going. This, in my opinion, makes it more likely that you'll choose the correct place to go to for you and yours.

What people have come up with here is very sound advice, which you may, or may not, agree with, but it should, if you’re serious about your move, give you a lot to think about.

A couple more things that come to mind.

I think it helps if you’re not running away from smth, which some people are. It may be an unhappy home situation, the weather, money problems… Those things may give you the extra push to move, but you should think about why you want to come to *Spain*. Why not Italy, or why not stay in the UK??

Also most people are aware of this, but I think your family situation should play heavily on your decision. What would you say if a Spaniard with a 4 year old and a 7 year old came to live in your road , not able to speak English, with no work and not eligible for any help from the state. I would think he was taking an incredible risk not only affecting his life, but his children and his partner’s as well! Think about it wannabe, think about it!
However…
There are those of us who love a challenge, have the gift of the gab and always fall on two feet and there always will be the bloke who came to Spain with 5 quid in his pocket and made it, so it’s up to you in the end


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## nigele2

Have a strategy that gets you involved and committed quickly to your new life:


Avoid unplanned or too many visiting friends from back home in the early months.
Limit internet comminication with back home.
Limit internet full stop (Telefonica can be very helpful in regard to this ).
Avoid or be very weary of expats (especially lonely ones who have not settled and talk of back home a lot).

Get involved in Spain quickly. Commit to your goal.

I remember talking to Australians and kiwis three years ago (I wasn't planning on staying so they weren't just being nice ). They thought the major contributing factor to success or failure was commitment. And of course with Spain it is easy to use the language issue as an excuse. Get stuck in.

As someone mentioned above the spanish love it if you try. I've had conversations with spaniards. They didn't understand a word I said. I didn't understand a word they said. But we both left each other smiling


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## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Also most people are aware of this, but I think your family situation should play heavily on your decision. What would you say if a Spaniard with a 4 year old and a 7 year old came to live in your road , not able to speak English, with no work and not eligible for any help from the state. I would think he was taking an incredible risk not only affecting his life, but his children and his partner’s as well! Think about it wannabe, think about it!


yes I'd think they were a bit daft - well crazy actually - but not as crazy as if they had a 14 & a 15 year old!!


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## Guest

I did read trough this thread and I agree with everything which was written, but I wanted just to add this (if it was not already mentioned and I did miss it…):
Be very patient when it comes to do paper work with the Spanish administration. Just one example, which happens to me right now: We did move to another house in August, just a few blocks from the old address in the same Pueblo. We went to the ayuntamiento to notify the change. They gave us one certificate for the whole family and said that we have to go to the “Estranjeria” Foreign office. So we did go yesterday morning. There was an unfriendly man at the entry counter who gave us a 6 different papers to fill out and said that we have to go back to the Ayuntamiento, because we need a certificate of empradoniamento for each one of us. He said also said that that we do need to bring two copies of everything, including passports and certificate of residence. We went back to the Ayuntamiento, waited for about an hour and did get all this papers. After copying all this (about 50 pages…) we went back this morning to the estranjeria. When it finally was our turn, the (friendly) women said “diga me”. I told her we came for our address change and gave all the papers. She looked at them and said that she does not need all this. My Certificate de la Union (NIE) and the NIE of my family members were sufficient


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## weluvspain

hahahha Nigele2-had a few of those conversations in the early months when i lived in Germany a few years ago, made me realise the importance of learning the lingo wherever we have lived or even holidayed.....even if just to show we've tried.

Luckily we arent running away from anythin-this is a move we had planned to do a few years ago but due to my husbands job we werent able to go until now but i can definatley see people doing it an thinking it will solve their problems.

although i love my family dearly, we have lived away many times so adjusting a making new friends and the most of our new surroundings is something we have always taken on the chin.

i think commitment and determination are key to success and i like to think we have both that where making a new life in Spain is concerned.

i know it wont be a bed of roses and we have chosen an area that isnt full of expats so we do have the opportunity to get involved with the local communit. i think if we move to a brit urbanisation we may aswell stay in the UK and continue just to holiday in spain??

my daughter (although a teenager) will be attending a local school-hence the private tutor for the next 9 months-as she wants to go to school with friends in her area. this was a tough call but after she had her input too we all decided in the long term it would be for the best as she doesnt want to feel like an outsider where the local kids are concerned. we just hope this is the right decision but i guess we wont find that out until we try?

the reason we chose spain is its the place we feel we could feel at home, its close to family if we ever had an emergency to rush back for and after visiting many countries, i feel happy about my kids being brought up there.

i think we have to be prepared for the possibilty it could all go pear shaped but i dont want to think in 10 years time..... "what if" and regret not making the move-the best i can do is be as prepared as possible and realise its down to how much we put into it coz its not gonna be handed to us on a plate?? lol


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## Alcalaina

nigele2 said:


> As someone mentioned above the spanish love it if you try. I've had conversations with spaniards. They didn't understand a word I said. I didn't understand a word they said. But we both left each other smiling


There you have in a nutshell, why you should come to Spain rather than France or Italy - the Spanish people!


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## Guest

Alcalaina said:


> There you have in a nutshell, why you should come to Spain rather than France or Italy - the Spanish people!


Sorry, but I do not like this kind of comment! I also like many Spaniards, but I am half french trough my mother and did live in France for 30 years. I also was often in Italy for longer period of times. There are also great people in France, in Italy and all over the world! If you like the Spanish better it's OK for me, but please do not make xenophobe comments about other nationalities. If I did misunderstand your comment, I apologize, otherwise not


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## Alcalaina

Eva33 said:


> Sorry, but I do not like this kind of comment! I also like many Spaniards, but I am half french trough my mother and did live in France for 30 years. I also was often in Italy for longer period of times. There are also great people in France, in Italy and all over the world! If you like the Spanish better it's OK for me, but please do not make xenophobe comments about other nationalities. If I did misunderstand your comment, I apologize, otherwise not


I'm so sorry Eva, this was not meant to be offensive and I am certainly not xenophobic. But having been tutted at impatiently in bars, bus stations and banks all over Europe, I have found the Spanish are generally far more tolerant of English people stumbling along trying to communicate, and will wait for you to finish. This does of course make the queues longer, which drives some people mad, but you do get their full attention!


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## Guest

Alcalaina said:


> I'm so sorry Eva, this was not meant to be offensive and I am certainly not xenophobic. But having been tutted at impatiently in bars, bus stations and banks all over Europe, I have found the Spanish are generally far more tolerant of English people stumbling along trying to communicate, and will wait for you to finish. This does of course make the queues longer, which drives some people mad, but you do get their full attention!


No problem! It was just my spontaneous reaction. Also I did see that you live in Andalucia where the people has a reputation of being particularly friendly and having a great sense of hospitality. But you should go to Catalonia (except Barcelona which is an international metropole). There the people will be sometimes very hostile with you, just because you do not speak Catalan. Or if you talk them in Spanish (which they all can talk, they will answer in Catalan! I did live in Tarragona (Catalonia) for two years, and I can assure you that you would be surprised by the difference with the Andalusian, or even Valencianos. But also in Catalonia there are nice people, I am only considering the general average. Spain is a big country, so many things can differ quite a lot depending in which part you live.

My reaction was also due to something else, which is off topic, but which I like just shortly to mention here: Yesterday there was this terrible tragedy in the Philippines. Now the media is full of negative things about the Filipinos. I did live in the Philippines for four years and my wife and son are Filipino. Philippines have a corrupt government and an incompetent/corrupt police. Also the rich class does exploit the poor without any scruples, but despite this, there are many wonderful, friendly and generous people in the Philippines, my wife and son are two of them.


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## nigele2

Eva33 said:


> Philippines have a corrupt government and an incompetent/corrupt police. Also the rich class does exploit the poor without any scruples, but despite this, there are many wonderful, friendly and generous people in the Philippines,


Eva you could just replace Philippines with Spain IMHO (ok a few less corrupt police in Spain ).


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## Guest

nigele2 said:


> Eva you could just replace Philippines with Spain IMHO (ok a few less corrupt police in Spain ).


Sorry nigele, but police corruption in Spain and in the Philippines is really on a complete diferrent level, at least nowadays. But I agree with you that Spain is unfortunately also still not completely clean in this aspect. After all, Philippines was a Spanish colony for nearly 500 years and was named after King Philipp the II of Spain, so they had good teachers


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## mrypg9

On reflection,I'm not sure why I would advise people to keep a property in the UK.....Like Hepa, we sold everything apart from furniture and personal stuff. Disposing of all our properties gave us enough cash to invest and be able to choose nice places to rent wherever we go. We never will own property again.
I think that maybe it's because in our case we knew that whatever happened we wouldn't be going back to where we had lived in the UK (I hated it) or indeed to England and we also knew that we might have lengthy spells of living in more than one country....
We've discussed moving on in a few years' time, meanwhile a property-free life suits us fine here in Spain.
But if you have children I think it's better to have a home base just in case...
We have heard of so many people who have sold in the UK and bought property here and now they want to go back but can't sell their houses here.
One friend who has a front-line beach property in our village has had it on the market for months at almost half the price she paid for it. If she ever does manage to sell it, it is very doubtful that the money she will get for it will enable her to purchase a property in the area she used to live in in the UK - leafy stockbroker belt Surrey.....
Now if she had rented....


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## Guest

mrypg9 said:


> On reflection,I'm not sure why I would advise people to keep a property in the UK.....Like Hepa, we sold everything apart from furniture and personal stuff. Disposing of all our properties gave us enough cash to invest and be able to choose nice places to rent wherever we go. We never will own property again.
> I think that maybe it's because in our case we knew that whatever happened we wouldn't be going back to where we had lived in the UK (I hated it) or indeed to England and we also knew that we might have lengthy spells of living in more than one country....
> We've discussed moving on in a few years' time, meanwhile a property-free life suits us fine here in Spain.
> But if you have children I think it's better to have a home base just in case...
> We have heard of so many people who have sold in the UK and bought property here and now they want to go back but can't sell their houses here.
> One friend who has a front-line beach property in our village has had it on the market for months at almost half the price she paid for it. If she ever does manage to sell it, it is very doubtful that the money she will get for it will enable her to purchase a property in the area she used to live in in the UK - leafy stockbroker belt Surrey.....
> Now if she had rented....


I also did choose to live a property free life and we are renting a great place at the Costa Blanca. If something happen to me, I prefer to leave some cash to my wife and son as a house which they maybe not be able to sell if they want or need to. Also life seems much easier to me with no tax forms and all the other obligations –and sometime trouble – property can bring to you. We have no intention to leave Spain, despite some of the minuses here. We are OK, under the line probably better than anywhere else and if one day we have to leave, for whatever reason this could be, we can do it on short notice. But I come from a country where 70% of the population is only renting anyway, even considering the fact that it is supposed to be one of the richest countries in the world (Switzerland).

It is so hot today, so I stay in the house with the A.C. on maximum, this is why I am writing so much….:ranger:


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## Stravinsky

Eva33 said:


> No problem! It was just my spontaneous reaction. Also I did see that you live in Andalucia where the people has a reputation of being particularly friendly and having a great sense of hospitality. But you should go to Catalonia (except Barcelona which is an international metropole). There the people will be sometimes very hostile with you, just because you do not speak Catalan. Or if you talk them in Spanish (which they all can talk, they will answer in Catalan! I did live in Tarragona (Catalonia) for two years, and I can assure you that you would be surprised by the difference with the Andalusian, or even Valencianos. But also in Catalonia there are nice people, I am only considering the general average. Spain is a big country, so many things can differ quite a lot depending in which part you live.
> 
> My reaction was also due to something else, which is off topic, but which I like just shortly to mention here: Yesterday there was this terrible tragedy in the Philippines. Now the media is full of negative things about the Filipinos. I did live in the Philippines for four years and my wife and son are Filipino. Philippines have a corrupt government and an incompetent/corrupt police. Also the rich class does exploit the poor without any scruples, but despite this, there are many wonderful, friendly and generous people in the Philippines, my wife and son are two of them.



Its peoples different experiences isn't it.
I'm British and I've heard plenty of bad comments about brits, but I dont take offence because ... well ... it happens. In France I have been treated badly there on many occasions whilst on holiday, but its the same in every country ... some good, some bad 

On the whole I feel the Spanish and the Spanish way of life are a good reason to move to Spain. I wouldnt move to France because of bad experiences, but thats life innit!


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## gus-lopez

I agree with marys list & love no.3 . Yes, we thought about buying a smaller property in the UK to rent out but I'd have worried about it all the time so we just sold everything & moved here. My wife did suggest that we delay moving out whilst I continued to work & 'pop out' for a couple of weeks to put a new roof on the place !! Yes, i should think so. I might be able to do it now after 8 years , knowing where to obtain mat'ls & with a grasp of the language , but not then. Personally I'd have bought a motorhome & just travelled about & I would certainly agree that @ present it's far better to rent than buy.


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## Guest

In the event any non-EU folks read through this thread: 

I wish I knew how much of a pain legalizing paperwork can be. The fun started while applying for a visa, and it hasn't stopped. I went to university in Canada which does not issue the Apostille of the Hague so all of my academic documentation takes months to get the required stamps and signatures. 

If you speak Spanish, try for the DELE. I managed to pass, which means that I won't have to do a language exam when I sit the oposiciones in a few years. One less thing to worry about at that time  

I also wish I knew how tough this was going to be on my family back home. While there are spots in North America farther away than I am, the fact that I'm in another country has not made life easy.


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## Guest

Stravinsky said:


> Its peoples different experiences isn't it.
> I'm British and I've heard plenty of bad comments about brits, but I dont take offence because ... well ... it happens. In France I have been treated badly there on many occasions whilst on holiday, but its the same in every country ... some good, some bad
> 
> On the whole I feel the Spanish and the Spanish way of life are a good reason to move to Spain. I wouldnt move to France because of bad experiences, but thats life innit!


Yes everyone makes different experiences.
If your British, then people must normally notice from where you are. If you heard many bad comments about the Brits, then they did say them to you right in the face or from where did you heard them? I am Swiss – you know Swiss banks, black money, Tax evasion, etc. and I am Jewish. But in my case since I speak German, French, Spanish, English and I do not look very Jewish the people normally have no idea from where I come from. So what kind of comments, jokes you think I had to hear during my life. But as you, I do not take offence because… well… it happens (sorry about the copy, but it was so well said  ) and otherwise I would maybe become crazy :boxing:

I have been treated badly in France and in Spain…

But I also, on the whole, like the Spanish lifestyle. That’s why I am here.


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## jojo

There does seem to be an increase in the number of folk coming onto the forum wanting to move here recently - is it cos they've had a great holiday???? I'm not sure thats a good reason to up sticks and move over - especially with a family, apart from the total lack of work, dont forget about how the rest of the family will feel. I know kids can be bribed by swimming pools in gardens, beaches, fun parks, sunshine.... but the reality when they arrive here is that their old mates arent around, the grandparent, aunt, uncles, neighbours...... strange language, strange surroundings............. You'd also be surprised at how quickly kids get fed up with the pool, beach. Its too hot to go out without hats, suncream on.

Spain is also a different place in the summer months. It tends to close down in August and yes, you do get that relaxed feeling cos its too hot to do anything but, in fact on a day to day level, its too hot to go outside, so you stay indoors or linger a bit too long in the supermarket cos its got air con! However, in the winter, its cold, very wet, very windy. Houses are generally not warm and heating tends to be expensive.

..... and what happens to the kids in the event of both parents actually getting a job?? Who looks after them? who picks them up from school? Working hours usually go on til early evening and start early with a two or three hour lunch hour - worse than that, what happens if your kids dont like the school - the lessons will be in Spanish, most of their class mates will be spanish..........

And the "biggie" I found is what happens if your child hates Spain??? and begs you to go back?? Theres only so long and so many bribes you can put up with that one - believe me!!!!

So think carefully, ulitmately, Spain maybe beautiful, the summers maybe warm, but life goes on here, you need money to live, you need friends around you, you still have a pile of washing, you have to do the food shopping, cooking, cleaning etc..... And if it all goes wrong, Spain wont help you. There is only social security, health care if you've paid into the spanish system. Going back to the UK will be costly, finding a job and home there again isnt going to be easy at all!!!!

Here endeth the lesson!

Jo xxx


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## JBODEN

nigele2 said:


> I've had conversations with spaniards. They didn't understand a word I said. I didn't understand a word they said. But we both left each other smiling


Yep, that's Spain! The local landowner comes down from his hacienda every day to chat to me and check up on the advances in my reform project. He's a wonderfull old man, 77 years old, who chats away 12 to the dozen - and I don't understand a thing he says (not strictly true). I reply in pidgin spanish and we have a great time!


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## 90199

Weluvspain:

You have something upstairs, you will make it! What part of this diverse country do you wish to settle?


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## Pesky Wesky

I just wanted to say what good points halydia and jojo have made. The family may find it hard, work timetables are different, winters happen, paperwork can be impossible to understand and time consuming. They're all things that need to be taken into consideration.

However this is turning into ""the heavy thread" so I think it should be pointed out too, that many people do make it every year and live happily ever after, so perhaps we shouldn't forget that! A lot of Brits don't have an easy time of it, but make it in the end, but I think in the main people get a lot out of coming to Spain.

The thing is that now may not be the time due to the economic difficulties of the country - and that's perhaps the most serious thing to think about at the moment.


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## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> I just wanted to say what good points halydia and jojo have made. The family may find it hard, work timetables are different, winters happen, paperwork can be impossible to understand and time consuming. They're all things that need to be taken into consideration.
> 
> However this is turning into ""the heavy thread" so I think it should be pointed out too, that many people do make it every year and live happily ever after, so perhaps we shouldn't forget that! A lot of Brits don't have an easy time of it, but make it in the end, but I think in the main people get a lot out of coming to Spain.
> 
> The thing is that now may not be the time due to the economic difficulties of the country - and that's perhaps the most serious thing to think about at the moment.


exactly

when we came 7 years ago it was pretty much 'boom time' & while there were difficulties (language, paperwork, culture shock, cooollllddd damp winters & so on) it was much easier for everyone

not just expats - but the Spanish too

it really is the economic situation that should make people think more than twice at the moment

for us now it's home - even for the OH whose heart has always been in the US

a friend from the UK who we have seen recently reckons that our kids are so very different from English kids now that if we did go back they'd be foreigners - & that's just one reason we'd have be dragged back kicking & screaming

it's pretty easy to move with little kids - but with teens & almost teens it's another matter entirely


that said - without the OH's income from outside Spain we wouldn't be able to live here - & that has always been the case - even in the 'boom time'


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## fourgotospain

Having only moved recently I can only claim limited sucess, but I can add the things I thought about when considering moving post economic crash with young children:

- Think about finances - plan that you WON'T get a job, therefore have to make your own income, either in UK or through self employment here. We chose to buy an existing business that we thought had potential for growth, and bought it at a reasonable price. Be prepared to work very hard on limited sleep as you stress all night about having done the right thing  

- Think again about finances - nothing can be counted as a investment in Spain as you cannot guarantee being able to sell it again. Treat your business as an income stream for the long term, buy a house if you want a family home in Spain for the next 20-30 years (or are prepared to lose a lot of money to sell it). It is NOT like the UK - if you don't like it/get a divorce/need the cash you can't 'just' sell your assets.

- Think long term. We are hoping to make Spain our home for a while - what does that mean for us in 10 years time? We need to learn the language to become part of the community, we need to think about retirement options and finances, and what we might want to do after that period. We have kept our UK house and rent it, as even with a cash lump sum but no employment it would be near impossible to get a mortgage for some time if we return. What about when your parents are aged and need assistance? Try and find someone who is at the other end of this trip - for us we had two family members who emigrated 30 years ago (one NZ and one Canada) with whom we could talk about the issues they face now, and try to prepare ourselves for those.

- Think about your family and friends. How close are you, and how much daily contact do you have? The reason we didn't move Down Under is I don't want to watch my nephews grow up on a webcam. That means we need to set aside funds for a couple of trips back every year. What if the cheap airlines stop flying our route? What will the relationship between your children and their grandparents be like? Will they come here regularly or will it be up to you?

- Think about the 'worst case scenarios' Horrible but essential. What if you split up, or worse, one of you dies? What if one of you is diagnosed with a serious/terminal illness? Do you really want to cope with that in a foreign language? On your own? What's your exit strategy if the worst happens?

- Think about your children and put them first. Commit to their education, after school activities, friends for tea - yes it takes effort but you are hoping to make this their home. In the future your younger children may not remember the UK except as a cold wet place where they got dragged around a load of rellys once or twice a year - why would they want to go and study/live there in 15 years time? Ours go to spanish school so that should they feel that Spain is their homeland they will have the skills to live, study and work here, but will continue with english lessons and exams too so they have transferable qualifications if they want to live in the UK.

After all that thinking, come over to Spain on at least half a dozen research trips at 2 monthly intervals to see what your destination is like year round, then adopt military style organisation to facilitate packing/shredding/selling of all your non-essential belongings! Oh and don't forget to factor in unforseen stress-level raises such as snow in the SW of england for the first time in 25 years just as your removal lorry tries to pull up to your house 

Am I glad we did it? Oh yes 
Hope this helps
Rachel.


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## Guest

Answer to fourgotospain

This is very well thought throught, Thanks! Many people do not think about all the consequences you mention in your post and they are absolutely correct. But on the other hand: Life is full of risks, everywhere and whatever you do, or decision you take. One is living now, today and if you start to worry about everything, which could happen, then you will loose your sleep and get into a depression 

But generally speaking, I think that if one wants to move to Spain and is not financially independent (I mean having to work for a living) he should think very hard about this. In my region (Costa Blanca) bars, shops, real estate agencies are closing down one after the other. They are not only owned by British, Dutch, or other foreigners, but also by Spaniards. And IMHO the Spanish government does exactly the opposite from what would be the right thing to do in order to get out of this crisis. I hope that I am wrong, because otherwise things could become economically real bad in this country. Even much worst as they already are.


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## jojo

Rachel, thats it!!! You obviously spent a lot of time and effort writing that and you've "hit the nail on the head"!!!!

Jo xxxx


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## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> Rachel, thats it!!! You obviously spent a lot of time and effort writing that and you've "hit the nail on the head"!!!!
> 
> Jo xxxx


Ditto!


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## mrypg9

The chief reason for not relocating here at the moment is the economy. Period.
It's not enough to say 'if you've got a head' you'll make it. The odds are stacked too heavily against you. Things might change....but not for a long while, I fear.
Far too many people who post here simply haven't a clue about the situation on the ground. 
As Pesky said earlier, a lot are running away....from the law, bad debts, broken relationships, whatever. Life's losers lose anywhere and everywhere.
The people who make good lives for themselves here are the people like Natalie, Rachel and Hepa who plan and research carefully, often taking years to get to the point where they order the Pickfords van. They and people who for whatever reason don't need to work.
Pesky's comparison of the non-English-speaking Spaniard coming to the U.K. was very apt.
But....as I said before and Jo has reiterated, summer's over, the cuts will create unemployment, happy holiday memories....wait for a rush of ' I am clueless, speak no Spanish (and poor English!) have no real skills, have had enough of the UK, I'm thinking of moving to Spain with the family...'threads.


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## weluvspain

Thank you Hepa!

We are moving to San miguel de Salinas in CB.


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## 90199

weluvspain said:


> Thank you Hepa!
> 
> We are moving to San miguel de Salinas in CB.


De nada,

That is a coincidence, an old shipmate of mine lives there in what he describes as a "Park Home" I think it must be something like a static caravan. The heat at the moment has driven him to cooler climes.

H


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## weluvspain

lol- that is not something that bothers me....... the hotter the better!! hehe

has he lived there long and does he like it there??


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## 90199

weluvspain said:


> lol- that is not something that bothers me....... the hotter the better!! hehe
> 
> has he lived there long and does he like it there??


He likes it there, I have only just recently found him, after 48 years!! so the exact time he has lived there I am not so sure, but it is years.

I believe he would re locate, to the Canary Islands if he could sell. The cost of living here is much cheaper and we have a far better climate. Where I live we do not need heating or air-conditioning.

However we are somewhat isolated, which might not suit all, especially those that have to/like to nip back to U.K. frequently


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## weluvspain

i have friends who had a bar in the europa centre in GC but unfortunately they had to sell up and it move back to the UK- they were devastated about it and loved living there.

unfortunately i've only been to a couple of the canary islands a few times so not somewhere i could consider living as i don't know anywhere well enough to feel i could move there......even though the isolation and no need for air con or heating sounds blissfull!! haha

how nice to have found him after all those years!!!!


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## 90199

weluvspain said:


> i have friends who had a bar in the europa centre in GC but unfortunately they had to sell up and it move back to the UK- they were devastated about it and loved living there.
> 
> unfortunately i've only been to a couple of the canary islands a few times so not somewhere i could consider living as i don't know anywhere well enough to feel i could move there......even though the isolation and no need for air con or heating sounds blissfull!! haha
> 
> how nice to have found him after all those years!!!!


The one I live on, El Hierro, is a little smaller than the Isle of Wight. There are only three English residents, us and another guy who lives with a French lady. We are 75 miles and 75 years away from Tenerife. Hardly anyone here speaks English. However the island is very beautiful and the countryside so diverse with breathtaking views.

Gran Canaria I first visited in 1962, arriving from Trinidad on an oil tanker. I guess that is what started the ball rolling.

The chap I know, who lives in San Miguel de Salinas, I bumped in to him on the internet, truly amazing!! He says he will visit us in the autumn.


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## weluvspain

Hepa said:


> The one I live on, El Hierro, is a little smaller than the Isle of Wight. There are only three English residents, us and another guy who lives with a French lady. We are 75 miles and 75 years away from Tenerife. Hardly anyone here speaks English. However the island is very beautiful and the countryside so diverse with breathtaking views.
> 
> Gran Canaria I first visited in 1962, arriving from Trinidad on an oil tanker. I guess that is what started the ball rolling.
> 
> The chap I know, who lives in San Miguel de Salinas, I bumped in to him on the internet, truly amazing!! He says he will visit us in the autumn.


if it was just my husband and i and the kids had left home i could see us being happy somewhere like that that!

:ranger: the internet is an amazing invention-my husband is ex-forces and had made contact with lots of people he has worked with over the years............ even found some he did his basic training with 20 years ago!

i'm sure your friend will have a wonderful time when he visits


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## giritana

Quote :
As Pesky said earlier, a lot are running away....from the law, bad debts, broken relationships, whatever. Life's losers lose anywhere and everywhere.

OUCH!! Well, I must be one of those _'life's losers' _then, as a 'broken relationship' propelled me into taking the plunge and finally making the move to Spain...! 
Weirdly, however, perhaps because I now live in a beautiful part of SW Spain and earn my living doing what I'd always dreamed I would, whilst enjoying new friendships, great live music most nights, beautiful beaches on the doorstep and a myriad of other similar benefits here, I don't actually feel much like a_ loser_, lol! (of course, 'a broken relationship' can happen 'out of the blue', as in my own case) - let's just hope it never happens to you....mind you, I was so lucky to head for Asturias, where my new Spanish neighbours welcomed me in as part of their extended family, which seemed to encompass the entire town - no mention of 'losers' on their part - just great friendship and incredible generosity - and my Spanish was virtually zilch at the time...!


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## xabiaxica

giritana said:


> Quote :
> As Pesky said earlier, a lot are running away....from the law, bad debts, broken relationships, whatever. Life's losers lose anywhere and everywhere.
> 
> OUCH!! Well, I must be one of those _'life's losers' _then, as a 'broken relationship' propelled me into taking the plunge and finally making the move to Spain...!
> Weirdly, however, perhaps because I now live in a beautiful part of SW Spain and earn my living doing what I'd always dreamed I would, whilst enjoying new friendships, great live music most nights, beautiful beaches on the doorstep and a myriad of other similar benefits here, I don't actually feel much like a_ loser_, lol! (of course, 'a broken relationship' can happen 'out of the blue', as in my own case) - let's just hope it never happens to you....mind you, I was so lucky to head for Asturias, where my new Spanish neighbours welcomed me in as part of their extended family, which seemed to encompass the entire town - no mention of 'losers' on their part - just great friendship and incredible generosity - and my Spanish was virtually zilch at the time...!


lol!!

one of _life's losers_ would have brought the failing relationship with them hoping the 3 Ss would mend it!


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## 90199

I am taking a break in Asturias shortly, fist time


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## Pesky Wesky

giritana said:


> Quote :
> As Pesky said earlier, a lot are running away....from the law, bad debts, broken relationships, whatever. Life's losers lose anywhere and everywhere.
> 
> OUCH!! Well, I must be one of those _'life's losers' _then, as a 'broken relationship' propelled me into taking the plunge and finally making the move to Spain...!
> Weirdly, however, perhaps because I now live in a beautiful part of SW Spain and earn my living doing what I'd always dreamed I would, whilst enjoying new friendships, great live music most nights, beautiful beaches on the doorstep and a myriad of other similar benefits here, I don't actually feel much like a_ loser_, lol! (of course, 'a broken relationship' can happen 'out of the blue', as in my own case) - let's just hope it never happens to you....mind you, I was so lucky to head for Asturias, where my new Spanish neighbours welcomed me in as part of their extended family, which seemed to encompass the entire town - no mention of 'losers' on their part - just great friendship and incredible generosity - and my Spanish was virtually zilch at the time...!


Ok, let's make it clear here. What I said was
[quoteI think it helps if you’re not running away from smth, which some people are. It may be an unhappy home situation, the weather, money problems… Those things may give you the extra push to move, but you should think about why you want to come to *Spain*. Why not Italy, or why not stay in the UK??][/quote]
Nothing from me about losers.
Sounds to me that your broken relationship was what gave you the extra push. Or maybe not. It's not up to me to say, is it?!
Please don't requote me from a quote - it leads to misunderstandings and that's three times today I have been slightly misunderstood on the forum. It's not face to face talk so I think we have to be a little more careful when talking about others.


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## Tallulah

Why is this thread entitled "Do you want to emigrate to Spain?

Many, many times this subject has come up and equally, many times I've wondered what was really meant.

Lets look at the typical thread on the subject here..... the consensus appears to be one of "think very hard about all the possible issues, consider worse case scenarios and if, at the end of all that, the answer is still yes...." and this is where I come a bit unstuck. 

On the one hand we have the very clear term "emigration" to which the above careful considerations obviously apply, but on the other, these careful considerations are more often than not followed by "don't burn your bridges by selling your house in the UK, remember you may need to go back etc etc". Surely with the latter, emigration is then made redundant??? You start off with far less equity than you should have to give your new life a fair crack of the whip, you're limited to the EC or at least the areas from which you can "return to base, don't pass go or collect £200".... 

Look, I am in full agreement that emigrating is a VERY serious matter and approached by many of the posters I've read on this forum which is almost like a long holiday, go live somewhere else for a while type of approach...rather than true "emigration". But how would how would most of the advice on this forum sound on other far flung country forums??? Where people would have to consider the assets they're not able to look after and are very far away from, thus not able to visit every now and again...whilst at the same time trying to build a new life in a new country with tens, if not hundreds of thousands of pounds less equity than they would have had, had they liquidated their assets prior to leaving? Clearly, these people (in Australia, USA, SA, etc) can't simply pack up and go back following an extended holiday. Why would somebody looking to come to live in Spain make the decision any lighter and commit any less??? Because they're only a couple of hours away??????????????? True. But hasn't the chance of it working just been ******ed up by that state of mind anyway?? Won't a few months of bad spell simply want to make you quit and go back?? Is this the right frame of mind for somebody who has supposedly decided to emigrate??

Yes...be careful if you buy in the new country - make sure it's an investment just as you would back in the UK...location, location,location etc. AND after a very thorough understanding of the place you now live in and its markets. One might find it's better to rent and chase the best % in investment deals with their equity. Most countries have advantageous term accounts, ISA type products, etc. After all, if one leg is in your new country and another leg is ready to go back, then A) you haven't really emigrated and B) why on earth would you buy a property in that frame of mind? 

I've noticed recent posts stating "don't come unless you've got a job/financially secure etc etc"... I would change that to "do come out, do get to know your new chosen country - DO NOT commit to any long term financial chains until all that good stuff (job, like the place etc) are met"...but how on earth are they ever going to get to that point if they don't actually commit to coming out? 

I think it's incredibly complicated to consider the implications and the true meaning of the question "are you ready to emigrate?" when a lot of the feedback received appears to be along the lines of "come out, have a go, see what you think..you might be lucky...but at the end of the day if things go wrong you can always go back". Unfortunately, that advice is good but not to somebody who is "ready" to emigrate. This is much more akin to someone who wants to find out if they're ready to emigrate and Spain is near enough to afford you that luxury. Sure, by all means, do exactly what the advice give is...but if in the end you emigrate, for God's sake, cut your financial commitment ties so you're not leading a double fiscal life and giving failure and giving failure far more advantage than success from Day One. Unless of course, you're completely loaded...then do whatever the hell you want!

For clarity, and ducking from the wrath of other posters (Tally gets coat) please remember that I'm 100% talking about the word "EMIGRATION" here and not the very, very often discussed fact finding trips, etc.


----------



## jojo

Tallulah said:


> Why is this thread entitled "Do you want to emigrate to Spain?
> 
> Many, many times this subject has come up and equally, many times I've wondered what was really meant.
> 
> Lets look at the typical thread on the subject here..... the consensus appears to be one of "think very hard about all the possible issues, consider worse case scenarios and if, at the end of all that, the answer is still yes...." and this is where I come a bit unstuck.
> 
> On the one hand we have the very clear term "emigration" to which the above careful considerations obviously apply, but on the other, these careful considerations are more often than not followed by "don't burn your bridges by selling your house in the UK, remember you may need to go back etc etc". Surely with the latter, emigration is then made redundant??? You start off with far less equity than you should have to give your new life a fair crack of the whip, you're limited to the EC or at least the areas from which you can "return to base, don't pass go or collect £200"....
> 
> Look, I am in full agreement that emigrating is a VERY serious matter and approached by many of the posters I've read on this forum which is almost like a long holiday, go live somewhere else for a while type of approach...rather than true "emigration". But how would how would most of the advice on this forum sound on other far flung country forums??? Where people would have to consider the assets they're not able to look after and are very far away from, thus not able to visit every now and again...whilst at the same time trying to build a new life in a new country with tens, if not hundreds of thousands of pounds less equity than they would have had, had they liquidated their assets prior to leaving? Clearly, these people (in Australia, USA, SA, etc) can't simply pack up and go back following an extended holiday. Why would somebody looking to come to live in Spain make the decision any lighter and commit any less??? Because they're only a couple of hours away??????????????? True. But hasn't the chance of it working just been ******ed up by that state of mind anyway?? Won't a few months of bad spell simply want to make you quit and go back?? Is this the right frame of mind for somebody who has supposedly decided to emigrate??
> 
> Yes...be careful if you buy in the new country - make sure it's an investment just as you would back in the UK...location, location,location etc. AND after a very thorough understanding of the place you now live in and its markets. One might find it's better to rent and chase the best % in investment deals with their equity. Most countries have advantageous term accounts, ISA type products, etc. After all, if one leg is in your new country and another leg is ready to go back, then A) you haven't really emigrated and B) why on earth would you buy a property in that frame of mind?
> 
> I've noticed recent posts stating "don't come unless you've got a job/financially secure etc etc"... I would change that to "do come out, do get to know your new chosen country - DO NOT commit to any long term financial chains until all that good stuff (job, like the place etc) are met"...but how on earth are they ever going to get to that point if they don't actually commit to coming out?
> 
> I think it's incredibly complicated to consider the implications and the true meaning of the question "are you ready to emigrate?" when a lot of the feedback received appears to be along the lines of "come out, have a go, see what you think..you might be lucky...but at the end of the day if things go wrong you can always go back". Unfortunately, that advice is good but not to somebody who is "ready" to emigrate. This is much more akin to someone who wants to find out if they're ready to emigrate and Spain is near enough to afford you that luxury. Sure, by all means, do exactly what the advice give is...but if in the end you emigrate, for God's sake, cut your financial commitment ties so you're not leading a double fiscal life and giving failure and giving failure far more advantage than success from Day One. Unless of course, you're completely loaded...then do whatever the hell you want!
> 
> For clarity, and ducking from the wrath of other posters (Tally gets coat) please remember that I'm 100% talking about the word "EMIGRATION" here and not the very, very often discussed fact finding trips, etc.


Heck Tally, thats a long one!!!!!! I understand what you're saying. I think the point of the post is that it sometimes seems that newbies/wanna be expats feel that moving to Spain is easy and therefore dont take quite the same amount of care or planning that they would if they were to "emigrate" to somewhere further afield! Lets face it, if you're planning to move to Australia, apart from visa requirements (which do force people to take it seriously), you need to make some very stringent plans and be very serious about it and therefore you dont get those who simply think they can hop on a plane, get a job and live happily ever after!

Spain seems to be the easy option! What always worries me is if families sell up everything, move over here lock, stock and barrel, buy a house here and think that they'll settle easily, get jobs, learn the language....What happnes if that doesnt happen, if they dont get jobs, the kids are unhappy and they run out of money!!?? I've seen it happen and I've seen marriages wrecked, families who are terrified cos they have to go back and have nothing (some who can barely afford their plane fares), no home, no jobs and are faced with the realisation that they've lost everything!

Jo xxx


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## Tallulah

Aye well, Jo...as you know me from elsewhere you know how it's been and so I've finally got some quality puter time!! lol!!! xxx

Yes of course I understand what you've said and completely agree from that standpoint. Those people you refer to, didn't emigrate in my mind. To me, emigration is such a serious matter that I can only explain it like corporate life. How many people leave, say, BP, go off and get another job with another corporation, hate it, complete disaster and so go back to BP? Or more importantly, have in their minds that they will go back to BP should that happen? They don't....because most can't and don't even consider it a possibility. Interestingly enough I have known some managers who could and didn't because "one cannot go back". That might seem a bit rash - but emigration is complex because it's LIFE. You don't wait for every cent to have gone before doing something, no more than you would if you would if you had stayed in the UK..... You don't have 2 homes in 2 countries unless you can afford it, because you wouldn't in the UK. ... You don't fly off on holiday three or four times a year or more, because you can't afford it if you've done your sums right for the longer term, as you wouldn't when you were in the UK.... 

Bottom line, if you emigrate you leave. You don't leave with your subconscious already geered up to come back. I personally feel that as with any other project, if you attack it in this manner the chances are you will fail. 

Having said all this, I do agree with everyone that has said "no language, no qualifications, no money, don't come".....but then, I would also say "don't move anywhere else in the UK either and stay in your comfort zone until your situation improves because right now you must be going through hell wherever you are".

T.xxxx


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## jojo

Tallulah said:


> Aye well, Jo...as you know me from elsewhere you know how it's been and so I've finally got some quality puter time!! lol!!! xxx
> 
> Yes of course I understand what you've said and completely agree from that standpoint. Those people you refer to, didn't emigrate in my mind. To me, emigration is such a serious matter that I can only explain it like corporate life. How many people leave, say, BP, go off and get another job with another corporation, hate it, complete disaster and so go back to BP? Or more importantly, have in their minds that they will go back to BP should that happen? They don't....because most can't and don't even consider it a possibility. Interestingly enough I have known some managers who could and didn't because "one cannot go back". That might seem a bit rash - but emigration is complex because it's LIFE. You don't wait for every cent to have gone before doing something, no more than you would if you would if you had stayed in the UK..... You don't have 2 homes in 2 countries unless you can afford it, because you wouldn't in the UK. ... You don't fly off on holiday three or four times a year or more, because you can't afford it if you've done your sums right for the longer term, as you wouldn't when you were in the UK....
> 
> Bottom line, if you emigrate you leave. You don't leave with your subconscious already geered up to come back. I personally feel that as with any other project, if you attack it in this manner the chances are you will fail.
> 
> Having said all this, I do agree with everyone that has said "no language, no qualifications, no money, don't come".....but then, I would also say "don't move anywhere else in the UK either and stay in your comfort zone until your situation improves because right now you must be going through hell wherever you are".
> 
> T.xxxx


Dont forget tho that money rules and you dont leave BP if you dont have another similar paying job to go to. If you hate it, no you dont go back (unless you grovel a bit???), but you dont then just say "dont like it and walk away" you stick it out and look for something else before leaving! So if you accept that Spain is simply another part of Europe, if you have your sensible head on, you should have a job lined up before going there and you should know that it will be enough financially to support you and a family (if you have one) and thats where I think people go wrong, they dont! 

P:S: Isnt "puter" something else in españa hun LOL?????????????

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Tallulah said:


> Why is this thread entitled "Do you want to emigrate to Spain?
> 
> 
> For clarity, and ducking from the wrath of other posters (Tally gets coat) please remember that I'm 100% talking about the word "EMIGRATION" here and not the very, very often discussed fact finding trips, etc.


It started out as a reaction to the run of people who have recently been asking questions about coming to live here. I chose the word emigrate because it sounds "serious" and I hoped it would make people realise that they become immigrants, which is a word many people have a negative reaction to (smth we've talked about before on the forum) but is a reality that I think is important that people realise. I could have asked "Do you want to become an expat?" But I don't like that word (also talked about before on the forum). So, it was a conscious decision, but on reflection perhaps I should have asked" Do you want to live in Spain?"
I understand your arguments about* if in the end you emigrate, for God's sake, cut your financial commitment ties so you're not leading a double fiscal life and giving failure and giving failure far more advantage than success from Day One, *but don't think it's very realistic in today's economic climate if you're going to involve other people in your decision. But this is all in my previous posts if anyone wants to read them.


----------



## Xose

Pesky Wesky said:


> It started out as a reaction to the run of people who have recently been asking questions about coming to live here. I chose the word emigrate because it sounds "serious" and I hoped it would make people realise that they become immigrants, which is a word many people have a negative reaction to (smth we've talked about before on the forum) but is a reality that I think is important that people realise. I could have asked "Do you want to become an expat?" But I don't like that word (also talked about before on the forum). So, it was a conscious decision, but on reflection perhaps I should have asked" Do you want to live in Spain?"
> I understand your arguments about* if in the end you emigrate, for God's sake, cut your financial commitment ties so you're not leading a double fiscal life and giving failure and giving failure far more advantage than success from Day One, *but don't think it's very realistic in today's economic climate if you're going to involve other people in your decision. But this is all in my previous posts if anyone wants to read them.


Interesting point Pesky, but I don't think Tallulah was focusing on your use of the word emigrate, rather underlining the difference between one method of going to live abroad and the other.

I think it does a great job to underline of the fact that Expat is actually a false safety net for the mind and is another way of saying "Emigrate" for those who don't even want to consider it in those terms. Very few of those who write the type of post we've seen "What are the chances of X&Y and where would be best for me to live?" either are simply posting on a forum and will then do whatever they were going to do in any case (my actual point of view in fact) or are genuinely seeking advice. If the latter, the anwser would simply be "are you serious?, you're looking to emigrate and want that kind of info from a forum?".

I think T's post is doing a good job of seperating the long holiday from the emigrating. The latter being the really serious issue, specially with family etc., etc., and so forth and the pain being those that don't diferentiate between the two. It's all very well us on the forum seeing it as a long holiday, but if the star of the show thinks they've emigrated, things aren't good from the off.

Bearing in mind that a long holiday can leave you broke if you don't plan finances etc., there's not a lot in it really. Many people I know have gone abraod "for 6 months to a year" and 10 or even 20 years later their still there. I think this is by far the healthiest way to do it unless it is a full financial and life changing commitment fully planned out from day one. Take a long break. Come to Spain for 6 months to a year. After that, if it isn't what you wanted, go back. Accounts still intact, house still intact and the kids have learnt another language! Bonus. But if you have a child half way through secondary, for crying out loud, even Spaniards decide to return either before 12 or after they finish secondary, else you split their education. Simples - get real is the rule... in everything serious and this is major league serious.


----------



## Joturke

A solid plan and homework well done is good advice, however life is full of unexpected curves.

When you emigrate I do feel you need to be 100 por cent into the move and most importantly prepared and ready to embrace the challenges and wonderful life experiences that you are creating for your future.
If moving to a country with another language then those that are that 100% committed know exactly what priority number 1 will be.

It is for each individual to sum up their experience and pass on their advice, but I do agree with a previous poster that many are not really committed to the challenge of adapting fully into a life. good and bad. in another country. For me it was 100% and that opened my mind and my life experience became a lot richer for that. 

However each person seeks different things in the pool of life and there are many different ways to achieve it- Good luck to all that try flat out to understand that pool of life in a different country.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Xose said:


> Interesting point Pesky, but I don't think Tallulah was focusing on your use of the word emigrate, rather underlining the difference between one method of going to live abroad and the other.
> 
> I think it does a great job to underline of the fact that Expat is actually a false safety net for the mind and is another way of saying "Emigrate" for those who don't even want to consider it in those terms. Very few of those who write the type of post we've seen "What are the chances of X&Y and where would be best for me to live?" either are simply posting on a forum and will then do whatever they were going to do in any case (my actual point of view in fact) or are genuinely seeking advice. If the latter, the anwser would simply be "are you serious?, you're looking to emigrate and want that kind of info from a forum?".
> 
> I think T's post is doing a good job of seperating the long holiday from the emigrating. The latter being the really serious issue, specially with family etc., etc., and so forth and the pain being those that don't diferentiate between the two. It's all very well us on the forum seeing it as a long holiday, but if the star of the show thinks they've emigrated, things aren't good from the off.
> 
> Bearing in mind that a long holiday can leave you broke if you don't plan finances etc., there's not a lot in it really. Many people I know have gone abraod "for 6 months to a year" and 10 or even 20 years later their still there. I think this is by far the healthiest way to do it unless it is a full financial and life changing commitment fully planned out from day one. Take a long break. Come to Spain for 6 months to a year. After that, if it isn't what you wanted, go back. Accounts still intact, house still intact and the kids have learnt another language! Bonus. But if you have a child half way through secondary, for crying out loud, even Spaniards decide to return either before 12 or after they finish secondary, else you split their education. Simples - get real is the rule... in everything serious and this is major league serious.


Getting a bit overwhelmed by the northern contingent tonight. Are you all sharing a plate of pulpo together or do you all text each other when smthgs going down on the forum??!
After a quick read of your post I'd say;
I understood that T was totally focussing on the word emigrate. Isn't that what she put in CAPITAL letters at the end of her post??
Are people who are asking for info on a forum serious about going to another country? I would say they very well may be. I wouldn't personally go 100% with legal advice from a forum, but a variety of peoples opinions to add to your own, the more the merrier
You say_* It's all very well us on the forum seeing it as a long holiday*_ and T says smth similar. What does that mean?? Who, what ,why, where sees it as a long holiday


----------



## Xose

Pesky Wesky said:


> Getting a bit overwhelmed by the northern contingent tonight. Are you all sharing a plate of pulpo together or do you all text each other when smthgs going down on the forum??!
> After a quick read of your post I'd say;
> I understood that T was totally focussing on the word emigrate. Isn't that what she put in CAPITAL letters at the end of her post??
> Are people who are asking for info on a forum serious about going to another country? I would say they very well may be. I wouldn't personally go 100% with legal advice from a forum, but a variety of peoples opinions to add to your own, the more the merrier
> You say_* It's all very well us on the forum seeing it as a long holiday*_ and T says smth similar. What does that mean?? Who, what ,why, where sees it as a long holiday


First of all, the "Northern contingent?" - didn't I see a "necessity" comment earlier about that term?

Actually yes, we all live in the same village, in a small barn which when converted will allow all of us to have a bedroom. In the mean time, we share a modem link on the computer that feeds the whole of Galicia, but then there are only 30 people here

What I meant to say was that IMO T wasn't targetting your tittle of the thread but rather putting forward a view on the meaning, weight and implications of the word emigrating. As opposed to "Moving to Alicante" but not completing a P85, registering in the Padron or any other thing that goes with emigrating..... i.e. A long holiday.

Is this the first time you've come across that type of sc enario on the forum then? People not empadronandose, not leaving the UK officially, not getting their tax status sorted? Surely you've seen a few on those on here Pesky?


----------



## Tallulah

ey ooop Xose....give Norma and Anles a shout cos tea's ready lol!!!


----------



## jojo

Dont you think we're getting a little bit too profound about a word in the "tittle"???? Even I understood the reason and meaning of the post. So lets not put so much depth, heart and soul into it eh?????? 

Jo xxxx


----------



## jojo

Tallulah said:


> ey ooop Xose....give Norma and Anles a shout cos tea's ready lol!!!


Tea??? no vino ???????????

Jo xxx


----------



## Xose

Tallulah said:


> ey ooop Xose....give Norma and Anles a shout cos tea's ready lol!!!


Not those bloody langostino's again is it?, can't we have some spam fritters for a change?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Xose said:


> First of all, the "Northern contingent?" - didn't I see a "necessity" comment earlier about that term?
> 
> Actually yes, we all live in the same village, in a small barn which when converted will allow all of us to have a bedroom. In the mean time, we share a modem link on the computer that feeds the whole of Galicia, but then there are only 30 people here
> 
> What I meant to say was that IMO T wasn't targetting your tittle of the thread but rather putting forward a view on the meaning, weight and implications of the word emigrating. As opposed to "Moving to Alicante" but not completing a P85, registering in the Padron or any other thing that goes with emigrating..... i.e. A long holiday.
> 
> Is this the first time you've come across that type of sc enario on the forum then? People not empadronandose, not leaving the UK officially, not getting their tax status sorted? Surely you've seen a few on those on here Pesky?


First paragraph - De verdad, no entiendo nada.

Second paragraph - I knew all of that already!

Third paragraph - May be understand what you're saying...

Fourth paragraph - No, I've "met" some great people and some weird people, but I usually have no idea about the whys and wherefores of what they're doing here. 

Well, time to get into that barn xose. Leave the door open so there's a draught. It's really hot here!
Hope to catch you again soon,
PW


----------



## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> Dont you think we're getting a little bit too profound about a word in the "tittle"???? Even I understood the reason and meaning of the post. So lets not put so much depth, heart and soul into it eh??????
> 
> Jo xxxx


Yes I do!

The Northern Babes (like that one xose??) have exhausted me with their tales of life in the upper regions. I myself am going to take myself off to bed with a bag of chips (no cod, they'd run out) and a pint of Yorkshire best bitter as all of us south of Vigo do most nights. Oh, nearly forgot to turn off Sky sport on the telly and throw todays copy of The Sun in the bin (Alejandro likes the page 3 girl).


----------



## jojo

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes I do!
> 
> The Northern Babes (like that one xose??) have exhausted me with their tales of life in the upper regions. I myself am going to take myself off to bed with a bag of chips (no cod, they'd run out) and a pint of Yorkshire best bitter as all of us south of Vigo do most nights. Oh, nearly forgot to turn off Sky sport on the telly and throw todays copy of The Sun in the bin (Alejandro likes the page 3 girl).


I enjoy a read of "the Sun" I know its not totally accurate or serious, but sometimes, its nice to have a little light hearted "news" Not sure I'd go to bed with a bag of chips tho, cod or not!!???

Night all

Jo xxx


----------



## Xose

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes I do!
> 
> The Northern Babes (like that one xose??) have exhausted me with their tales of life in the upper regions. I myself am going to take myself off to bed with a bag of chips (no cod, they'd run out) and a pint of Yorkshire best bitter as all of us south of Vigo do most nights. Oh, nearly forgot to turn off Sky sport on the telly and throw todays copy of The Sun in the bin (Alejandro likes the page 3 girl).


Tela marinera!

Nobody's called me a babe in quite a while outside of my immediate harem. 

Pisa nena, que paga el ayuntamiento!


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## mrypg9

The North begins at Potters Bar.


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## anles

Tallulah said:


> ey ooop Xose....give Norma and Anles a shout cos tea's ready lol!!!


I always miss all the fun, is there still a cup of tea going and can I please sleep INSIDE the barn tonite


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## Tallulah

anles said:


> I always miss all the fun, is there still a cup of tea going and can I please sleep INSIDE the barn tonite


Thermos is filled, Anles. Come snuggle up chick, it's a bit chilly here!  xxx


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## jojo

Tallulah said:


> Thermos is filled, Anles. Come snuggle up chick, it's a bit chilly here!  xxx



CHILLY?????????? Its still 32c here!!! The novelty's wearing off this heat now!


Jo xxx


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## fourgotospain

> But how would how would most of the advice on this forum sound on other far flung country forums??? Where people would have to consider the assets they're not able to look after and are very far away from, thus not able to visit every now and again...whilst at the same time trying to build a new life in a new country with tens, if not hundreds of thousands of pounds less equity than they would have had, had they liquidated their assets prior to leaving?


My advice stands. As I said before we have family members who emigrated to far flung places 30 years ago - they would both have bought a buy-to-let 1 bed flat in the UK when leaving if they could have, because whether they like it or not, the rest of their family live in England. They are now retired, their grown up children 100% a product of their new country, but their parents, siblings, nieces and nephews several thousand miles away. They would love to be able to spend a season in the UK (harsh Canadian winter v mild Uk winter and wet NZ winter v wet UK summer) but it still ranks as some of the most expensive rental housing in the world.

My children are BRITISH, there is no escaping that, and they will always have every right to live, work and study in the country they were born in. If they chose to, maybe I will want to live down the road, maybe I will want to give them a leg up the property ladder using my equity, maybe I will love Spain so much by then I will never leave, but OPTIONS and RISK ASSESMENT should be the keywords for any emigration. The world is now a tiny place - 3 decades ago emigration meant airmail letters and booking telephone calls, now it's email, Skype and cheap airfares. 

Is emigration a lifelong decision?? I don't believe so. Our spanish adventure is a 10-15+ yr plan to provide stability for our girls and educate them in the third most spoken language in the world (they are already fluent in one of the top 2, so just need to get a Mandarin teacher on board!!) After that who knows?? I don't know where I'll end my days, but I want to have the flexible financial options to choose, rather than have them tied up in a series of unliquidatable 'assets'.

Of course those with spanish relatives may be somewhat exempt from these ramblings as they might have no reason to visit Blighty for family duties


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## fourgotospain

CHILLY??? 45 degrees here today OMG....


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## Guest

jojo said:


> CHILLY?????????? Its still 32c here!!! The novelty's wearing off this heat now!
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


I just got back from fiestas here and I was cold! It was spitting rain too - funny to watch everyone RUN for cover - as if the folks in Bilbao have never seen rain before!


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## xabiaxica

fourgotospain said:


> CHILLY??? 45 degrees here today OMG....


was a warm one, wasn't it??


let me know if you find that Mandarin teacher!


older dd is fluent in English & Castellano - Valenciano a VERY close third - 2 years of German under her belt & starting to do some Latin this year, with the possibility of Greek during her Bacci years

but she WANTS to learn Mandarin too!!


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## dunmovin

mrypg9 said:


> The North begins at Potters Bar.


For Us Scots... south starts at Carlisle and also translates to "viable target"


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## JBODEN

dunmovin said:


> For Us Scots... south starts at Carlisle and also translates to "viable target"


A Scot told me that south of Carlisle is the land of 'rejected' Scots.


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## Normatheexdiva

Noooo....I can't leave the Sacred Ribena! It would be ooh, midnight before I struggled over the fields, crossed the mighty Savinao to get to your barn.
Just wave and we'll use semaphore! 

In all honesty? Galicia's quite big. It takes nearly 2 hours to get oop to your barn. There aren't many expats. Even fewer on here. 
Jo and I met through a chain of quite extraordinary coincidences. Jaw dropping coincidences. 
I once ran into that Xose in the corner shop. No, not really. Life's more complicado than that. 



Tallulah said:


> Thermos is filled, Anles. Come snuggle up chick, it's a bit chilly here!  xxx


----------



## Guest

Normatheexdiva said:


> In all honesty? Galicia's quite big. It takes nearly 2 hours to get oop to your barn. There aren't many expats. Even fewer on here. Jo and I met through a chain of quite extraordinary coincidences. Jaw dropping coincidences. I once ran into that Xose in the corner shop. No, not really. Life's more complicado than that.


Do any of you gallegos live in San Ciprian?


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## Tallulah

Not terribly close but not undoable either for a nice trip - it's about 2 hours north east of us or quite a bit longer on the coast road . And about 3 hours from Anles/Norma as it's the other end of Lugo province for them.

And as Norma says, Galicia is a fairly big place, especially when you consider that, thank god, we're not covered in motorways.


----------



## Guest

Tallulah said:


> Not terribly close but not undoable either for a nice trip - it's about 2 hours north east of us or quite a bit longer on the coast road . And about 3 hours from Anles/Norma as it's the other end of Lugo province for them.
> 
> And as Norma says, Galicia is a fairly big place, especially when you consider that, thank god, we're not covered in motorways.


When I was at one of the local bars, the bartender was telling me about an expat/emigrant/non-Spanish/native-English speaking family in town so I figured I'd ask 

Galicia is enormous, especially when compared with Cantabria/Pais Vasco. I was so surprised how long it took to get from San Ciprian to Lugo! (Dirt roads!? Just like home!)


----------



## Tallulah

halydia said:


> When I was at one of the local bars, the bartender was telling me about an expat/emigrant/non-Spanish/native-English speaking family in town so I figured I'd ask
> 
> Galicia is enormous, especially when compared with Cantabria/Pais Vasco. I was so surprised how long it took to get from San Ciprian to Lugo! (Dirt roads!? Just like home!)


Just the one then?!?!?


----------



## Guest

Tallulah said:


> Just the one then?!?!?


Just the one... bar?


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## Tallulah

halydia said:


> Just the one... bar?



hahaha ..... family I meant


----------



## Guest

Tallulah said:


> hahaha ..... family I meant


Yes  "You're blonde, you must belong to the ____ family, no?"


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## Normatheexdiva

The irony for those with old cars, is that those motorways are no faster than the old roads! 
Ah, back when we had hire cars, we could bomb up and down Galicia, driving at scary speeds on the AP53.
Now it's a slow cruise to Melide and go whichever direction after. I'm beginning to enjoy the slow road. 
xxx



Tallulah said:


> Not terribly close but not undoable either for a nice trip - it's about 2 hours north east of us or quite a bit longer on the coast road . And about 3 hours from Anles/Norma as it's the other end of Lugo province for them.
> 
> And as Norma says, Galicia is a fairly big place, especially when you consider that, thank god, we're not covered in motorways.


----------



## Tallulah

Normatheexdiva said:


> The irony for those with old cars, is that those motorways are no faster than the old roads!
> Ah, back when we had hire cars, we could bomb up and down Galicia, driving at scary speeds on the AP53.
> Now it's a slow cruise to Melide and go whichever direction after. I'm beginning to enjoy the slow road.
> xxx


That's one of the things we love here - it's not so much a case of lets take the scenic route and chill....a lot of the times it's Hobsons' choice (sp) especially once you get off the fast bit to wherever you're going and you've still got half the distance left when you hit the "b" roads, better known here as rutas nacionales - as all fast roads these days seem to be autopistas (toll roads) or autovias (free - hooray!). We had this recently when we got off the A6 to go to Sierra de O Caurel in Lugo and were pleasantly surprised with half the distance still left to go, how beautiful it all was all the way to the spectacular Sierra....I know Lugo would be strongly on our list of alternatives for second homes if ever the primitiva comes up.
xxxx


----------



## Normatheexdiva

With examples of the famous Galician trait of not wanting others to know what you are up to....The Great Changing of the Road Numbers.
I think the CRG2.2 has two or three different names and numbers. They widen, or upgrade a road and change the classification and number.
I thought I was so smart. I bought a recent map of Lugo province and the Xunta hedged its bets by not naming/numbering any roads except the A or N roads. 
I've been writing the numbers on the roads as we drive on them, in wobbly letters and the occasional 'NOT THIS ROAD' as you realise that whilst the road is on the map, no one uses it, except locals and it's full of holes.

The CG 271 or from Friol to Palas de Rai is curious in that the number has remained the same, but that the kilometre stone markers don't match up with the newer kilo posts. 
Fantastic. I love it. No sat nav for me. I'm a map girl.
xxx




Tallulah said:


> That's one of the things we love here - it's not so much a case of lets take the scenic route and chill....a lot of the times it's Hobsons' choice (sp) especially once you get off the fast bit to wherever you're going and you've still got half the distance left when you hit the "b" roads, better known here as rutas nacionales - as all fast roads these days seem to be autopistas (toll roads) or autovias (free - hooray!).  We had this recently when we got off the A6 to go to Sierra de O Caurel in Lugo and were pleasantly surprised with half the distance still left to go, how beautiful it all was all the way to the spectacular Sierra....I know Lugo would be strongly on our list of alternatives for second homes if ever the primitiva comes up.
> xxxx


----------



## Alcalaina

Normatheexdiva said:


> With examples of the famous Galician trait of not wanting others to know what you are up to....The Great Changing of the Road Numbers.
> xxx


Not just Galicia - they've done it in Andalucia too. Causes endless strife with the OH who still insists it can't possibly happen and accuses me of not looking at the map properly.


----------



## xabiaxica

Alcalaina said:


> Not just Galicia - they've done it in Andalucia too. Causes endless strife with the OH who still insists it can't possibly happen and accuses me of not looking at the map properly.


they change the road signs round here


not officially - just the 'valenciano' brigade changing the town names from castellano 


it was funny once when we were on hols here with some american friends


my oh went out with the guy of the family who came back & said 'that Exabeeya place is ever so much like Haveeya isn't it?'

Xabia & Javea - same place - different language/spelling


----------



## Normatheexdiva

Now you can prove it! 
There must be some sort of provincial bureau of misdirection, or The Bureau of Constant Reclassification or something similar. I wonder which part of Spain is most notorious for this? 
Galicia, with its constant road building, must come high up. 
We were fooled once, as we thought that the AP53 did in fact go all the way to Ourense, from Santiago, but it doesn't and it was dark and very, very hairy. 
So what have they done? They've started a new 'fast' autovia from Ourense to Lalin and quite possibly Santiago, parallel with the AP 53. They may have finished it, I don't know as we don't use that road now. It's more than 5 euro each way. 
xx



Alcalaina said:


> Not just Galicia - they've done it in Andalucia too. Causes endless strife with the OH who still insists it can't possibly happen and accuses me of not looking at the map properly.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

:focus:

6 rules for surviving in Spain
Expat survival guide - living in Spain - Information on video for expats in spain - tips to survive in Spain


----------



## Guest

Rule 1's explication cracked me up. Do you guys have to go to _extranjería_ to do any paperwork? That was my first introduction to Spain and the Spanish... Rule 1 combined with Rule 2 would've been incredibly helpful. (Just change "angry" to "frustrated, sad, and lost.") 

Thanks for sharing


----------



## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> :focus:
> 
> 6 rules for surviving in Spain
> Expat survival guide - living in Spain - Information on video for expats in spain - tips to survive in Spain


Very good - I know a few people who would be a lot happier here if they'd followed this advice!

BTW when did "be nice to to people" become "use emotional intelligence?" Is this some sort of psycho-jargon that has passed me by somehow?


----------



## fourgotospain

I would say use every 'emotional' trick you can think of. I know it's shallow but a bit of slap and a big smile always helps, as do any small children you can coerce into going with you. I was fast-tracked through the social security queue due a blond 6 yr old practisisng her spanish on the lady in charge!!


----------



## Caz.I

Pesky Wesky said:


> :focus:
> 
> 6 rules for surviving in Spain
> Expat survival guide - living in Spain - Information on video for expats in spain - tips to survive in Spain


Very good no nonsense stuff. :clap2: Essential viewing for any prospective expat. Especially "don't get angry!" lol. Should be accompanied by relaxation and deep breathing techniques!


----------



## 90199

Pesky Wesky said:


> :focus:
> 
> 6 rules for surviving in Spain
> Expat survival guide - living in Spain - Information on video for expats in spain - tips to survive in Spain


A good link. Excellent advice!! However the man giving the advice keeps referring to "Back home," how sad! my home is here, in a city called Valverde. I think when a person realizes that this is home, then and only then will they be settled.

Hepa


----------



## Alcalaina

Hepa said:


> A good link. Excellent advice!! However the man giving the advice keeps referring to "Back home," how sad! my home is here, in a city called Valverde. I think when a person realizes that this is home, then and only then will they be settled.
> 
> Hepa


Yes, I completely agree with you. Home is where the heart is, and if your heart is in another country you should probably be living there instead.


----------



## Daveh

Pesky Wesky said:


> :focus:
> 
> 6 rules for surviving in Spain
> Expat survival guide - living in Spain - Information on video for expats in spain - tips to survive in Spain


Thanks for that. Learnt a bit there


----------



## gabriele

*10 commandments for Spain expats*

Those commandments are very down to earth. They are not only vital for Spain expats but, should be observed for any emigration. Not even China allows for taking chances. 
What most of us also forget about relocating to Spain is that wages are lower. Therefor, we shall have a much smaller pension in the future. This would be annoying, in case we decide to move back home after all. 







mrypg9 said:


> My additional advice (Mary's Ten Commandments for Considering a Move to Spain )would be:
> 1) Remove all fanciful ideals of 'living the dream' from your head. THINK REAL. This is a very important mindset with which to be starting your planning.
> 2) Either have a job in the UK which you can continue with in Spain or have a firm offer of a well-paid job before you even think of getting out your suitcase.
> 3) If you are a plasterer, brickie, general handyman, beautician, cleaner, child-minder or similar: stay home. Do not advance to go. Plan a holiday in Spain, not a new life.
> 4) Same applies if you have no profession, skill or trade whatsoever but are 'prepared to work very hard at anything for any wage'. Yes, you may find a job like that but it's called slavery and was abolished by law two centuries ago. You will find yourself living a nightmare, not a dream.
> 5) If you have a UK property, do not sell it. Rent, You may be back.
> 6) Have a sum of money as back-up capital - I would say £25k -to cover all misfortunes and other eventualities.
> 7) Remove from your mind all illusions of a land of constant sunshine and happy smiling faces around swimming pools sipping Pimms. Yes, this could happen to you - but equally you could end up in an Alcatraz-like urb with a communal pool like a crowded fishtank and the neighbours from the council estate from hell next door. And it is very cold and wet in winter.
> 8) Read up on the economic situation in Spain. There is currently 20% unemployment and prospects for growth are not good.
> 9) Similarly, read up on the very many rules and regulations which you will be obliged to observe if you come to live in Spain. Spain is no different from anywhere else - it imposes obligations on would-be residents.
> 10) If at all possible, wait until you are retired or have amassed enough capital to live here without having to worry about the employment situation. Enjoy frequent holidays here, explore Spain's many and diverse regions and view them as preparation for your eventual safe and carefree move.


----------



## angelwings

I love the Spanish way of live, especially the siestas - I think this should be implemented worldwide


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## Alcalaina

angelwings said:


> I love the Spanish way of live, especially the siestas - I think this should be implemented worldwide


Actually, most Spanish people don't take siestas! At least, they don't go sleep for a couple of hours in the afternoon, like a lot of people think. Just a 15-minute nap in an armchair if you're lucky. Usually they are too busy cooking and eating lunch, picking children up from school or whatever.

The practice of closing shops and businesses in the afternoon is because before we had air-conditioning, it was simply too hot to work in the summer. 

Agricultural workers usually have a nap in the afternoon but that's because they've been working since 6 a.m.


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## jojo

angelwings said:


> I love the Spanish way of live, especially the siestas - I think this should be implemented worldwide



like the idea of siestas, co it is too hot to do much in the summer at that time of day, so its nice to have an excuse not to do anything and have a doze! It also makes up for not sleeping well at night, cos of the heat and the lifestyle!! Sadly I think rather than the rest of the world taking it on, Spain and other Mediterranean countries are eventually going to lose it!

Jo xxx


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## starzz

*from USA*

Halydia,

I noticed you were from the USA and are near Bilbao. I am in SC(USA) currently with my husband who is from Santander. His parents live in Santander and we've been thinking about moving back to Spain(where we met). Since you are from the USA, I would really like your take on Spain and how you like living there as most of the posts are from Brits. I am trying to figure out how to PM you, but I can't find where to do it. Anyways, we are not 100% sure about whether to move to Spain or not as the economy isn't good right now so if we did move, it would probably be 1-2 years from now. Also, I am a certified Spanish teacher here in SC. I was hoping to teach English in Spain, but I still have a lot of research to do. My husband is an engineer. Bilbao would be a great location for us; however, we don't speak Basque, so I'm assuming that would be a major issue for us. Therefore, we've thought of Madrid and Barcelona just because of the higher prospect of job opportunities, but would really like to be more in northern Spain. How is the Bilbao area? Do you like it? Have you had success finding jobs? What do you miss about the USA? Are you glad you made the move? Sorry for all of the questions, but I'm just trying to get as much information as possible before we make a decision. Finally, I noticed you mentioned the DELE. What is the benefit of doing that and is it necessary? Thanks for all of your help!




halydia said:


> In the event any non-EU folks read through this thread:
> 
> I wish I knew how much of a pain legalizing paperwork can be. The fun started while applying for a visa, and it hasn't stopped. I went to university in Canada which does not issue the Apostille of the Hague so all of my academic documentation takes months to get the required stamps and signatures.
> 
> If you speak Spanish, try for the DELE. I managed to pass, which means that I won't have to do a language exam when I sit the oposiciones in a few years. One less thing to worry about at that time
> 
> I also wish I knew how tough this was going to be on my family back home. While there are spots in North America farther away than I am, the fact that I'm in another country has not made life easy.


----------



## Guest

starzz said:


> Halydia,
> 
> I noticed you were from the USA and are near Bilbao. I am in SC(USA) currently with my husband who is from Santander. His parents live in Santander and we've been thinking about moving back to Spain(where we met). Since you are from the USA, I would really like your take on Spain and how you like living there as most of the posts are from Brits. I am trying to figure out how to PM you, but I can't find where to do it. Anyways, we are not 100% sure about whether to move to Spain or not as the economy isn't good right now so if we did move, it would probably be 1-2 years from now. Also, I am a certified Spanish teacher here in SC. I was hoping to teach English in Spain, but I still have a lot of research to do. My husband is an engineer. Bilbao would be a great location for us; however, we don't speak Basque, so I'm assuming that would be a major issue for us. Therefore, we've thought of Madrid and Barcelona just because of the higher prospect of job opportunities, but would really like to be more in northern Spain. How is the Bilbao area? Do you like it? Have you had success finding jobs? What do you miss about the USA? Are you glad you made the move? Sorry for all of the questions, but I'm just trying to get as much information as possible before we make a decision. Finally, I noticed you mentioned the DELE. What is the benefit of doing that and is it necessary? Thanks for all of your help!


I'll answer this in your other thread so we don't hijack this one


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## Pesky Wesky

Just thought I'd resuscitate this thread as there seems to be a lot of people asking about moving to Spain at the moment, and there's some good advice and interesting views here.
Don't forget to look at the stickies at the top of the page and you can also search for particular info that you want.


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## karenangell

mrypg9 said:


> My additional advice (Mary's Ten Commandments for Considering a Move to Spain )would be:
> 1) Remove all fanciful ideals of 'living the dream' from your head. THINK REAL. This is a very important mindset with which to be starting your planning.
> 2) Either have a job in the UK which you can continue with in Spain or have a firm offer of a well-paid job before you even think of getting out your suitcase.
> 3) If you are a plasterer, brickie, general handyman, beautician, cleaner, child-minder or similar: stay home. Do not advance to go. Plan a holiday in Spain, not a new life.
> 4) Same applies if you have no profession, skill or trade whatsoever but are 'prepared to work very hard at anything for any wage'. Yes, you may find a job like that but it's called slavery and was abolished by law two centuries ago. You will find yourself living a nightmare, not a dream.
> 5) If you have a UK property, do not sell it. Rent, You may be back.
> 6) Have a sum of money as back-up capital - I would say £25k -to cover all misfortunes and other eventualities.
> 7) Remove from your mind all illusions of a land of constant sunshine and happy smiling faces around swimming pools sipping Pimms. Yes, this could happen to you - but equally you could end up in an Alcatraz-like urb with a communal pool like a crowded fishtank and the neighbours from the council estate from hell next door. And it is very cold and wet in winter.
> 8) Read up on the economic situation in Spain. There is currently 20% unemployment and prospects for growth are not good.
> 9) Similarly, read up on the very many rules and regulations which you will be obliged to observe if you come to live in Spain. Spain is no different from anywhere else - it imposes obligations on would-be residents.
> 10) If at all possible, wait until you are retired or have amassed enough capital to live here without having to worry about the employment situation. Enjoy frequent holidays here, explore Spain's many and diverse regions and view them as preparation for your eventual safe and carefree move.


hi would just like to note that all the people living in spain at the moment seem to be saying it is an awful place to live and the unemployment is bad and no central heating like in england. This is fair enough it is making my thoughts more precarious than they were. We have a lovely life here in england although i hate the weather here immensly. Have been to spain for several years on holidays stayed all over the southern tip also east coast all lovely i thought when on holiday. I suppose when you live there its much the same as here although the weather hopefully would be better?? Maybe we could just buy a holiday home but i would love my son who is four a the moment to speak spanish he already counts up to 20 and says hello and goodbye and can say wot his name is. We can speak a little order food etc but are learning here in the uk, however no matter how much you learn its better when you are living in that enviroment to listen to the language all the time as you pick it up better. would appreciate your thoughts thanks


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## 90199

karenangell said:


> hi would just like to note that all the people living in spain at the moment seem to be saying it is an awful place to live and the unemployment is bad and no central heating like in england. This is fair enough it is making my thoughts more precarious than they were. We have a lovely life here in england although i hate the weather here immensly. Have been to spain for several years on holidays stayed all over the southern tip also east coast all lovely i thought when on holiday. I suppose when you live there its much the same as here although the weather hopefully would be better?? Maybe we could just buy a holiday home but i would love my son who is four a the moment to speak spanish he already counts up to 20 and says hello and goodbye and can say wot his name is. We can speak a little order food etc but are learning here in the uk, however no matter how much you learn its better when you are living in that enviroment to listen to the language all the time as you pick it up better. would appreciate your thoughts thanks


Not all the people!

Where I live it is fantastic, we don't need or have any heating, so no heating bills. The people here are exceptionally polite and they smile and laugh! Crime is very low.
We first bought a house in 2000 and used it for holidays, but now we live here full time and wouldn't want to change things. The climate was the main attraction and true to form the sun shines nearly every day, it is such a climate that here in February the peaches have already formed on the trees in my garden, my neighbour is harvesting his second crop of potatoes.

Because there are only three English residents on the island, nearly every one converses in Spanish, occasionally people seek us out to practice their English and we oblige, but the every day language is Spanish. Keep studying, you will be surprised that eventually the language will fall into place, but it will be easier if you enjoy your studies. Try to find a teacher who is a native speaker, mine was a lovely lady from Bariloche in Argentina and with her help I passed exams!

There is unemployment, but we have had it before and the recession will eventually cease. We are fortunate we do not need employment, I was a worker for almost 50 years, so I am having a bit of a rest

I would say keep your aspirations alive, learn the language, rent at first then if you can afford it buy a house in your chosen location, and perhaps eventually you will succeed and live here year round,

Hepa


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## xabiaxica

karenangell said:


> hi would just like to note that all the people living in spain at the moment seem to be saying it is an awful place to live and the unemployment is bad and no central heating like in england. This is fair enough it is making my thoughts more precarious than they were. We have a lovely life here in england although i hate the weather here immensly. Have been to spain for several years on holidays stayed all over the southern tip also east coast all lovely i thought when on holiday. I suppose when you live there its much the same as here although the weather hopefully would be better?? Maybe we could just buy a holiday home but i would love my son who is four a the moment to speak spanish he already counts up to 20 and says hello and goodbye and can say wot his name is. We can speak a little order food etc but are learning here in the uk, however no matter how much you learn its better when you are living in that enviroment to listen to the language all the time as you pick it up better. would appreciate your thoughts thanks


it isn't horrible living here - just VERY hard to make a living!!

if you have a good income then it's great - but no, the weather isn't always lovely & if you have kids & are working (if you are lucky enough to have work) then life is much the same as anywhere

at the moment where I am it's grey & damp - when it rains it rains biblically then when it stops it dries up quickly

for years we'd been telling my parents 'it's raining' or 'it's cold today' when we spoke on the phone - but you could just tell they didn't really belive us!!

my dad has been here for 2 months now & yes, we've had some lovely days - but most have been just sort of OK - & if you're working it hardly matters (except when you're trying to work in 40+º & 85% humidity in August)

at least he now believes that the sun doesn't always shine!!

we live in a newish apartment with underfloor heating & aircon - but it never really feels 'cosy' like it did in our fully carpeted house in the UK

that said, when the weather improves we can eat outside & get fresh air all day every day - & I intend to stay put


however, if you have a good life in the UK, do what you suggested & buy a holiday home if you can & come out as often as possible

that way, when the economy improves you'll be well placed to move if/when the time is right


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## Alcalaina

karenangell said:


> Have been to spain for several years on holidays stayed all over the southern tip also east coast all lovely i thought when on holiday. I suppose when you live there its much the same as here although the weather hopefully would be better??


Hi Karen,

We bought a house here in 2005 and came on holiday four times a year until finally moving here permanently in 2008. We love living here and have no regrets; we have a couple of small employers' pensions, just enough to get by, so we don't have to work.

I just want to say that living here permanently is very definitely _not_ like being on holiday. Other people have mentioned the weather and the horrible cold winters, but there is also all the bureaucracy and paperwork - you need the patience of a saint, sometimes. 

And unlike a holiday you won't be able to eat out and go visiting nice places all the time. You have to make sure you have enough to fill your day without getting bored. An English couple I know (who have now gone back, leaving their Spanish house unsold and empty) fell into that trap, and ran out of money two years earlier than they had budgeted for. They blamed the exchange rate, but actually it was because every time they got bored, they went shopping or out for a meal!

Unless you live in an ex-pat community with lots of British shops and bars, you have to make a big cultural adjustment. Everything happens at different times of the day than you are used to, the food and cooking methods are different, in fact the whole culture is different. Some things are very hard to accept, like the way animals are treated here.

If you only socialise with English-speakers, watch British TV and read British newspapers, you won't become fluent in Spanish. A couple of hours a week in a class with other learners is not enough; you might learn the grammar, but that won't help when someone is gabbling at you in the local dialect. I would really recommend having Spanish TV and watching the news, magazine programmes, even the adverts. Listening and understanding is just as important as speaking and reading Spanish.

Of course having a four-year-old will help, he'll become fluent much quicker than you will!


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## mrypg9

karenangell said:


> hi would just like to note that all the people living in spain at the moment seem to be saying it is an awful place to live and the unemployment is bad and no central heating like in england. This is fair enough it is making my thoughts more precarious than they were. We have a lovely life here in england although i hate the weather here immensly. Have been to spain for several years on holidays stayed all over the southern tip also east coast all lovely i thought when on holiday. I suppose when you live there its much the same as here although the weather hopefully would be better?? Maybe we could just buy a holiday home but i would love my son who is four a the moment to speak spanish he already counts up to 20 and says hello and goodbye and can say wot his name is. We can speak a little order food etc but are learning here in the uk, however no matter how much you learn its better when you are living in that enviroment to listen to the language all the time as you pick it up better. would appreciate your thoughts thanks


I'm not saying that!!
I love it here.
But I don't need to work and have no money worries (yet).
And that makes a HUGE difference!


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## Pesky Wesky

gabriele said:


> What most of us also forget about relocating to Spain is that wages are lower. Therefor, we shall have a much smaller pension in the future. This would be annoying, in case we decide to move back home after all.


Here are the latest figures about minimum wages in the EU published by Eurostat 
Minimum wage statistics - Statistics explained
Guess what? Spain is quite a way behind the UK...


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## jojo

karenangell said:


> hi would just like to note that all the people living in spain at the moment seem to be saying it is an awful place to live and the unemployment is bad and no central heating like in england. This is fair enough it is making my thoughts more precarious than they were. We have a lovely life here in england although i hate the weather here immensly. Have been to spain for several years on holidays stayed all over the southern tip also east coast all lovely i thought when on holiday. I suppose when you live there its much the same as here although the weather hopefully would be better?? Maybe we could just buy a holiday home but i would love my son who is four a the moment to speak spanish he already counts up to 20 and says hello and goodbye and can say wot his name is. We can speak a little order food etc but are learning here in the uk, however no matter how much you learn its better when you are living in that enviroment to listen to the language all the time as you pick it up better. would appreciate your thoughts thanks



I came to Spain feeling like you do, nice weather, good for the kids to learn the language, I was fed up with the UK. My husband was "Mr. Cautious" and made sure that we could survive financially as he'd looked into employment in Spain and realised that it wasnt going to be easy to find work. Anyway three years down the line, I still love it here, but the novelty has worn off, the winters aint fun and the recession has hit Spain hard and the bottom line is that everything is the same - washing, ironing, cooking, cleaning, shopping, school run, kids fighting with each other....... The cost of living is no longer much cheaper than the UK and the exchange rate has dropped dramatically, so money is tight for us. I have finally got a job here now, but the pay is poor and its not much fun, but it is eanglish speaking, cos after 3 years I'm nowhere near good enough to consider myself fluent enough to work in a spanish company, husband still commutes to the UK to work and isnt here very much. 

That said, I still prefer it to being in the UK, the summers here are lovely (you've got us all while we're suffering the bad weather) and there is a much more relaxed feeling. BUT, Spain isnt the easy and carefree place that people experience on holiday

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9

jojo said:


> I came to Spain feeling like you do, nice weather, good for the kids to learn the language, I was fed up with the UK. My husband was "Mr. Cautious" and made sure that we could survive financially as he'd looked into employment in Spain and realised that it wasnt going to be easy to find work. Anyway three years down the line, I still love it here, but the novelty has worn off, the winters aint fun and the recession has hit Spain hard and the bottom line is that everything is the same - washing, ironing, cooking, cleaning, shopping, school run, kids fighting with each other....... The cost of living is no longer much cheaper than the UK and the exchange rate has dropped dramatically, so money is tight for us. I have finally got a job here now, but the pay is poor and its not much fun, but it is eanglish speaking, cos after 3 years I'm nowhere near good enough to consider myself fluent enough to work in a spanish company, husband still commutes to the UK to work and isnt here very much.
> 
> That said, I still prefer it to being in the UK, the summers here are lovely (you've got us all while we're suffering the bad weather) and there is a much more relaxed feeling. BUT, Spain isnt the easy and carefree place that people experience on holiday
> 
> Jo xxx



Tells it like it is.


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## jojo

mrypg9 said:


> Tells it like it is.


Actually, that does sound a truly miserable post doesnt it - sorry!! Well - I wrote that yesterday when it was pouring with rain, windy and cold. I'd been out with a friend trying to help her get her NIE number (never an easy task lol) and got soaked!!

Today its sunny and is a much more cheerful day - my friend went back to the police station this morning and even got her NIE!! YAY!!!! 

Jo xxxx


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## Alcalaina

jojo said:


> Actually, that does sound a truly miserable post doesnt it - sorry!! Well - I wrote that yesterday when it was pouring with rain, windy and cold. I'd been out with a friend trying to help her get her NIE number (never an easy task lol) and got soaked!!
> 
> Today its sunny and is a much more cheerful day - my friend went back to the police station this morning and even got her NIE!! YAY!!!!
> 
> Jo xxxx


I thought it was a very good post! It echoes what I said above about life not being like a holiday. Anyone moving here with that attitude is doomed to be disappointed.

Could we have some of your sunshine here please - I´ve got a pile of washing to do!


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## mrypg9

jojo said:


> Actually, that does sound a truly miserable post doesnt it - sorry!! Well - I wrote that yesterday when it was pouring with rain, windy and cold. I'd been out with a friend trying to help her get her NIE number (never an easy task lol) and got soaked!!
> 
> Today its sunny and is a much more cheerful day - my friend went back to the police station this morning and even got her NIE!! YAY!!!!
> 
> Jo xxxx


The weather doesn't change the fact that what you posted is true, though!
I went to Estepona yesterday to meet the Mayor so dressed as smartly as you can in torrential rain. I foolishly decided to walk from Carrefour into town, a ten-minute stroll, got absolutely soaked so went into a ferreteria and bought a pair of waterproof trousers and Wellies, put them on in a storeroom at the back of the shop and went for my meeting looking like a female SS Stormtrooper....
Started out sunny but lightning, thunder, rain...
Time for another coffee...


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## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> I thought it was a very good post! It echoes what I said above about life not being like a holiday. Anyone moving here with that attitude is doomed to be disappointed.
> 
> Could we have some of your sunshine here please - I´ve got a pile of washing to do!


Hang it over the bath, like I do Alcalaina. We've got two bathrooms as well, so you can get a full load of washing up


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## Caz.I

mrypg9 said:


> I went to Estepona yesterday to meet the Mayor so dressed as smartly as you can in torrential rain. I foolishly decided to walk from Carrefour into town, a ten-minute stroll, got absolutely soaked so went into a ferreteria and bought a pair of waterproof trousers and Wellies, put them on in a storeroom at the back of the shop and went for my meeting looking like a female SS Stormtrooper......


The Mayor probably thought you were plotting the next revolution!


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## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hang it over the bath, like I do Alcalaina. We've got two bathrooms as well, so you can get a full load of washing up


Hmmm, not really an option for us -we only have one bath which is also the shower, and it would take a few days to dry. The forecast is better for the weekend so I guess I´ll hang on a bit longer ...


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## gabriele

*Cold in Spain and OK on Canary Islands*



karenangell said:


> hi would just like to note that all the people living in spain at the moment seem to be saying it is an awful place to live and the unemployment is bad and no central heating like in england. This is fair enough it is making my thoughts more precarious than they were. We have a lovely life here in england although i hate the weather here immensly. Have been to spain for several years on holidays stayed all over the southern tip also east coast all lovely i thought when on holiday. I suppose when you live there its much the same as here although the weather hopefully would be better?? Maybe we could just buy a holiday home but i would love my son who is four a the moment to speak spanish he already counts up to 20 and says hello and goodbye and can say wot his name is. We can speak a little order food etc but are learning here in the uk, however no matter how much you learn its better when you are living in that enviroment to listen to the language all the time as you pick it up better. would appreciate your thoughts thanks


It's for ever about the weather and that Spain is much more than its mainland. It has so many provinces with much better climate. Spain gets very hot in summer and that's why its people like to escape to the Canary Islands, such as Tenerife.
They also love to come in winter. To look for milder weather. The Spanish island provinces near Africa get their fair share of rain in January above all. But you dress a bit more warm and don't freeze. Eternal spring isn't really a cliché on Tenerife, you know...

Work and job opportunities? The world isn't getting any better in this respect, be it in the UK or anywhere abroad. The tendency should be much more into working with the Internet, in my mind. Or to combine your daywork as a self employed person or as working for others with work online...


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## mrypg9

Caz.I said:


> The Mayor probably thought you were plotting the next revolution!


Well, I felt very self-conscious but people probably thought Ah well, the British.....
Problem was, I put the rubber trousers on and my legs were still wet...
Extremely uncomfortable.
The Mayor was a really lovely man...he was responsible for uncovering corruption in the town hall and as a result has had to endure a series of denuncias made against him by his PP opponents -he is PSOE. Each has been thrown out as groundless.


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## gabriele

It's lovelyl to hear about a mayor who fights corruption. Actually Spain is so varied. There are so many good and warm people. I mean all over Spain. 
Nice, to read a positive entry.


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## Caz.I

mrypg9 said:


> Well, I felt very self-conscious but people probably thought Ah well, the British.....
> Problem was, I put the rubber trousers on and my legs were still wet...
> Extremely uncomfortable.
> The Mayor was a really lovely man...he was responsible for uncovering corruption in the town hall and as a result has had to endure a series of denuncias made against him by his PP opponents -he is PSOE. Each has been thrown out as groundless.


Well, that is corruption for you. It seems to be endemic in the town halls, whatever the party. Our Mayoress has been in power here for years and is eager to hold on to the next term - the campaign started early with free calendars posted out to every resident with photos of the town and her ladyship on every month!


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## mrypg9

Caz.I said:


> Well, that is corruption for you. It seems to be endemic in the town halls, whatever the party. Our Mayoress has been in power here for years and is eager to hold on to the next term - the campaign started early with free calendars posted out to every resident with photos of the town and her ladyship on every month!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's lovelyl to hear about a mayor who fights corruption. Actually Spain is so varied. There are so many good and warm people. I mean all over Spain. 
Nice, to read a positive entry. 
__________________
Holiday home in Tenerife insider and tourist guide. 


As far as you can tell from just talking to someone and learning a bit about past history this Mayor is clean and honest. We have benefitted from his 'reign' at the Town Hall..in our village we have had roads and pavements resurfaced, new sewerage pipes laid, roundabouts tarted up and a new infant school with a park and cultural centre.
In the past month five new shops have opened, practically doubling the number of shops in the village so maybe -fingers crossed - things are looking up.
Problem is that there is duplication. Another bread/cake shop, another butcher ....probably not enough custom all the year round for such competition.
Also a shop selling fancy iron arterfacts and one selling bridal apparel...now that *is *incongruous in a village where in the same street I had to overtake a man on a horse with a Jack Russell running alongside and a herd of goats...


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## gabriele

*Too many doubled shops*

There is a strange phenomena with economics. At least two shops selling similar products in the same road are said to sell better than one. One might even sell hardly anything. It's like with people. Our attention ill always drawn when there are two people creating some sort of a stir by argument, praise, advertising or whatever. The same happens with shops whose displayed wares may even shout at us. And what about the smell of freshly baked bread to draw you in? 
Anyway, it is also so much more fun having two of everything. Two dogs, two kids, to hairdressers in a road or you name it... Not two undertakers, though. 




mrypg9 said:


> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> It's lovelyl to hear about a mayor who fights corruption. Actually Spain is so varied. There are so many good and warm people. I mean all over Spain.
> Nice, to read a positive entry.
> __________________
> Holiday home in Tenerife insider and tourist guide.
> 
> 
> As far as you can tell from just talking to someone and learning a bit about past history this Mayor is clean and honest. We have benefitted from his 'reign' at the Town Hall..in our village we have had roads and pavements resurfaced, new sewerage pipes laid, roundabouts tarted up and a new infant school with a park and cultural centre.
> In the past month five new shops have opened, practically doubling the number of shops in the village so maybe -fingers crossed - things are looking up.
> Problem is that there is duplication. Another bread/cake shop, another butcher ....probably not enough custom all the year round for such competition.
> Also a shop selling fancy iron arterfacts and one selling bridal apparel...now that *is *incongruous in a village where in the same street I had to overtake a man on a horse with a Jack Russell running alongside and a herd of goats...


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## mrypg9

gabriele said:


> There is a strange phenomena with economics. At least two shops selling similar products in the same road are said to sell better than one. One might even sell hardly anything. It's like with people. Our attention ill always drawn when there are two people creating some sort of a stir by argument, praise, advertising or whatever. The same happens with shops whose displayed wares may even shout at us. And what about the smell of freshly baked bread to draw you in?
> Anyway, it is also so much more fun having two of everything. Two dogs, two kids, to hairdressers in a road or you name it... Not two undertakers, though.


You may be right but our business experience in the UK would tell us otherwise.... We fought off competition and survived.
I shall watch our new enterprises with interest...but I'll stick to the 'old' baker's


----------



## gabriele

So it will be very interesting to see how it will work out. You must keep us posted.


----------



## mrypg9

Well.....I've decided to help the Mayor in the forthcoming election campaign. He is a decent man, honest and has done a lot for our village.
I thought I'd lfinished with political involvement when I left the UK but it seems old habits die hard....
The PP here is fighting hard for the immigrant vote.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Just found this other thread. It's not specific to Spain, but raises some "issues"!
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/general-expat-discussions/63172-how-expat.html


----------



## jojo

Edward Bristol said:


> - Don’t buy when you can rent
> - Don’t commit when you can test
> - Don’t marry a stranger
> - Don’t start a business you don’t understand
> - Don’t assume the law will protect you
> - Don’t drive motorcycles
> - Take your time. One year is nothing.
> - Do observe yourself: Are you only going local, or are you going crazy?
> 
> Above all don’t hope to escape bad days, nasty people, arthritis or your private demons.
> 
> Have a safe trip.
> 
> Edward Bristol



That is soooooooooooo true to people who are thinking of coming to Spain

Jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> That is soooooooooooo true to people who are thinking of coming to Spain
> 
> Jo xxx


Yes, it was that little summary that caught my eye.


----------



## gabriele

Lovely and very interesting an entry...


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Just found this other thread. It's not specific to Spain, but raises some "issues"!
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/general-expat-discussions/63172-how-expat.html


what a shame he only ever made one post


----------



## Alcalaina

xabiachica said:


> what a shame he only ever made one post


I suppose we should add

"don't spend all day on forums, get out and get a life!"


----------



## xabiaxica

Alcalaina said:


> I suppose we should add
> 
> "don't spend all day on forums, get out and get a life!"


speak for yourself


I've got a life - which includes preparing & marking lessons on the computer whenever I'm not actually teaching


so I pop in here every now & then for a little light relief


----------



## Alcalaina

xabiachica said:


> speak for yourself
> 
> I've got a life - which includes preparing & marking lessons on the computer whenever I'm not actually teaching
> 
> so I pop in here every now & then for a little light relief


Yep, me too - I do a lot of painting, so I come on here while I'm waiting for the paint to dry (my chair swivels between the easel and the computer). And sometimes at night when there is one of those 15 minute commercial breaks in the middle of a movie. And sometimes in the morning while I'm drinking my breakfast cuppa. Oh well ... :focus:


----------



## baldilocks

mrypg9 said:


> Well.....I've decided to help the Mayor in the forthcoming election campaign. He is a decent man, honest and has done a lot for our village.
> I thought I'd lfinished with political involvement when I left the UK but it seems old habits die hard....
> The PP here is fighting hard for the immigrant vote.


The alcalde (PP) here is under investigation for the usual illegal licensing of garden sheds that end up as three storey five bedroomed mansions. He is also believed to have made dubious donations to certain contractors of Zap's PlanE monies. €73k was supposed to have been spent on doing up our road and there was some spent on the short stretch where PP voters (including ex-alcalde) live but at our end, all we have got is three damn great holes where they put up the huge sign saying how much they were going to spend. Me, I shall be voting PSOE and leave the fascist residue to lie in their own mire which will eventually build up until it smothers them! (I hope)


----------



## baldilocks

xabiachica said:


> what a shame he only ever made one post


I think he was probably one of those who throws in a little bombshell, then runs away. My response on that thread was:



Edward Bristol said:


> blurb
> Edward Bristol


I haven't bothered to bore everybody with yet another requoting. 

All I can say is - what a very negative attitude - I'm surprised he ever ventured out of the womb!

Emigrating is very much what YOU make it! You can't expect everybody else to do all the research and legwork for you. We on the fora try to help where we can, but so much is up to YOU
Quote.


----------



## baldilocks

Alcalaina said:


> I suppose we should add
> 
> "don't spend all day on forums, get out and get a life!"


We haven't stopped this week with trips to hospitals for interpreting jobs, classes, the academy, etc.

Like Alcalaina - I also paint and have a weekly painting class.


----------



## gabriele

Not having a clue about Spanish politics it find this entry very interesting. Very refreshing.


----------



## baldilocks

gabriele said:


> Not having a clue about Spanish politics it find this entry very interesting. Very refreshing.


Try reading some books on the Third Republic and the Civil War (see the "Books about Spain" thread). Basically the Socialists together with the Communists and helped by the Anarchists put together the Republican government.

The Monarchists and conservatives, Falangists, etc. prompted the military to act against the Republic under the Nationalist banner (Franco's lot) resulting in many murders and much killing of many innocent people.

The modern day parties are the PSOE (socialists, etc.) and the PP (nationalists, etc.)


----------



## gabriele

baldilocks said:


> Try reading some books on the Third Republic and the Civil War (see the "Books about Spain" thread). Basically the Socialists together with the Communists and helped by the Anarchists put together the Republican government.
> 
> The Monarchists and conservatives, Falangists, etc. prompted the military to act against the Republic under the Nationalist banner (Franco's lot) resulting in many murders and much killing of many innocent people.
> 
> The modern day parties are the PSOE (socialists, etc.) and the PP (nationalists, etc.)


Thanks, that's interesting again.

Actually, I am quite familiar with the Franco times, as they also rubbed off on Tenerife. 
By the way, is there also something in Spain like the Santa Cruz Circulo de amistades 12 de Enero? 
20 000 members and they welcome young people from the upper middle class. The latter is striking me as peculiar. Why not just middle class? Hmm... I just published a little about this in my last webpage but dare not meddle with anything like politics here, unless its some diplomatic comment. Anyway, it's for our own good to see more in a positive light, when getting older.


----------



## mrypg9

baldilocks said:


> Me, I shall be voting PSOE and leave the fascist residue to lie in their own mire which will eventually build up until it smothers them! (I hope)


As will I!


----------



## baldilocks

gabriele said:


> Thanks, that's interesting again.
> 
> Actually, I am quite familiar with the Franco times, as they also rubbed off on Tenerife.
> By the way, is there also something in Spain like the Santa Cruz Circulo de amistades 12 de Enero?
> 20 000 members and they welcome young people from the upper middle class. The latter is striking me as peculiar. Why not just middle class? Hmm... I just published a little about this in my last webpage but dare not meddle with anything like politics here, unless its some diplomatic comment. Anyway, it's for our own good to see more in a positive light, when getting older.


My searches for such an organisation have drawn a blank, however, it sounds like something a certain person, that some of us are aware of, might be involved with.


----------



## gabriele

Thanks very much for trying to help. I was just curious. On the other hand, I find it amazing that associations like that may have so much clout in our modern times.


----------



## baldilocks

gabriele said:


> Thanks very much for trying to help. I was just curious. On the other hand, I find it amazing that associations like that may have so much clout in our modern times.


As I have mentioned before, in some areas the Civil War was very hard and memories are long and passed down from generation to generation. For example, a lot of Brits are very anti-French because they want help when the Germans threaten and as soon as we go to their aid, they run away, leaving us to carry the can, but I am too young (just) to remember the actual event but carry the thought. It is similar in Spain....


----------



## Alcalaina

baldilocks said:


> As I have mentioned before, in some areas the Civil War was very hard and memories are long and passed down from generation to generation. For example, a lot of Brits are very anti-French *because they want help when the Germans threaten and as soon as we go to their aid, they run away, leaving us to carry the can*, but I am too young (just) to remember the actual event but carry the thought. It is similar in Spain....


I love the way you put this in the present tense - is it still happening?


----------



## baldilocks

Alcalaina said:


> I love the way you put this in the present tense - is it still happening?


Maybe! Remembering about leopards and spots... I do wonder if CdeG (NON!) had managed to stay alive and keep Britain out of the Common Market, where the UK would be now - probably the 52nd state of the USA?

CdeG - nobody could say it better and with as much oomph!


----------



## gabriele

Very interesting and I very much appreciate your telling me. 
I have encountered some French people which were very hostile towards Germans, still in the 70ies. 
On the other hand, my dad was in the war in Russia and in Finland. He was a high officer in charge of supplies (logistics sort of) and the officers got on beautifully with the Russian people. They created their communal little concerts German/Russian. Just figure, how weird the world can be a little away from battle fields...


----------



## Alcalaina

I think there are people in all countries who are hostile towards foreigners, and it's usually a sign of narrow-mindedness, insecurity, or just habit. Once they actually meet them face to face those hostilities often melt away. I spent a lot of time in Ireland when I was younger and people were always telling me how much they hated the English, then buying me drinks!


----------



## gabriele

By the looks of it there's never any war with the Irish when there are drinks. Joke...
What you say is true, though.


----------



## Alcalaina

gabriele said:


> By the looks of it there's never any war with the Irish when there are drinks. Joke...
> What you say is true, though.


Drinks and music - make the world go round! :violin::lalala::tea:


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Thought I'd ressurect this thread even though it seriously goes off track at times, as there seem to be a fair few people asking for info about coming to live in Spain.
There is also a lot of info in the stickies at the top of the page about paperwork, employment, health issues...
Take your time,
look through it all
and do some mulling.


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Thought I'd ressurect this thread even though it seriously goes off track at times, as there seem to be a fair few people asking for info about coming to live in Spain.
> There is also a lot of info in the stickies at the top of the page about paperwork, employment, health issues...
> Take your time,
> look through it all
> and do some mulling.


you started this thread just over a year ago, & it's fair to say that things are considerably worse now than they were then 

Spain’s Unemployment Soars to 21.2%



> Spain''s jobless rate rose 1.25% or 51,185 from the previous month to 4.13 million in August, the Labour Ministry said on Friday. On a yearly basis, the number of unemployed rose 161,266 in August.
> 
> Spain logged the highest unemployment rate of 21.2% in the euro area, Eurostat said on Wednesday.


----------



## jojo

Looking at things from a different viewpoint, things probably are considerably worse in the UK too. Its more expensive here than it was even a year ago, unemployment is on the up, altho at least in the UK there are safety nets of JSA, benefits, free health care. Then there's the weather which is unpredictable and grim. Also there is this over polite attitude to just about everything, which you may think is nice, but its stifling peoples emotions and pride. 

Anyway, I'm not suggesting that moving to Spain is the answer, it certainly isnt the easy option, but its probably why people think it might be!

Jo xxx


----------



## Alcalaina

jojo said:


> Looking at things from a different viewpoint, things probably are considerably worse in the UK too. Its more expensive here than it was even a year ago, unemployment is on the up, altho at least in the UK there are safety nets of JSA, benefits, free health care. Then there's the weather which is unpredictable and grim. Also there is this over polite attitude to just about everything, which you may think is nice, but its stifling peoples emotions and pride.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not suggesting that moving to Spain is the answer, it certainly isnt the easy option, but its probably why people think it might be!
> 
> Jo xxx


When are you coming 'home' again then?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

jojo said:


> Looking at things from a different viewpoint, things probably are considerably worse in the UK too. Its more expensive here than it was even a year ago, unemployment is on the up, altho at least in the UK there are safety nets of JSA, benefits, free health care. Then there's the weather which is unpredictable and grim. Also there is this over polite attitude to just about everything, which you may think is nice, but its stifling peoples emotions and pride.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not suggesting that moving to Spain is the answer, it certainly isnt the easy option, but its probably why people think it might be!
> 
> Jo xxx


Yes, I can understand why people want to come over, or rather, why people want to leave the

UK. I know it's not all fun and games there (How could people believe that the recession was

over and done with in UK earlier on in the year. Figures are one thing, but all you had to do 

was look around you!) 


But, those wanting to leave the UK for a better life have to know what they are coming to and 

be realistic about WORK, local economy, living conditions, THE WEATHER, bureaucracy, 

schools, education, workable businesses, LANGUAGE PROFICIENCY... 

...in short _*everything*_.

Come to Spain if you want but with your eyes open, por favor


----------



## tobyo

okay, I've got to take a break soon. but this is night #3 reading this thread and it will likely take me the next week to get through it all......so thought I'd pipe in now to let you all know that this thread is VERY helpful to me!! Even tho I'm American, alot of the advice is useful to me too. don't worry, I won't keep my property in the UK  and I have pretty much already decided I'd rather not have the hassle of buying property in Spain. ewie. and for sure I will sell my house here in MN. It will add to the nest egg I hope to have in about 10 years when/if we move to Spain to retire. we have one daughter and that is one HUGE concern of mine so interesting to read that advice. I keep joking w/hubby that she'll be so rich that she'll be able to visit us lots of times. hey, it could happen 

Yep, we had two great trips to Spain in the last year or so. I also spent my junior year of college in Madrid. I had been talking about Spain our entire married life (and going on 23 years together, like last week! whoa...) and we saved and saved and planned and planned and last May hubby fell in love with Spain. We went back 10 months later to celebrate our 20th anniversary and had another nice time in Spain. didn't lessen his desire to want to BE IN SPAIN!! currently hoping to go back in 5 years, unless we win the lottery (don't laugh, my mother actually did win the FL lottery!!), then we'll be back sooner than 5 years. Another fact-finding trip methinks. 

anyhoo, all this to say thanks for all the great discussion here. I am truly appreciating it!!


----------



## Guest

jojo said:


> Looking at things from a different viewpoint, things probably are considerably worse in the UK too. Its more expensive here than it was even a year ago, unemployment is on the up, altho at least in the UK there are safety nets of JSA, benefits, free health care. Then there's the weather which is unpredictable and grim. Also there is this over polite attitude to just about everything, which you may think is nice, but its stifling peoples emotions and pride.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not suggesting that moving to Spain is the answer, it certainly isnt the easy option, but its probably why people think it might be!
> 
> Jo xxx



You're right. Things in the UK are sinking fast. Unemployment is rising, as is tax, utility bills, food prices, cost of public transport, and petrol is increasing too. Ordinary people are being bled dry from all corners, meaning there's almost no disposable income and leisure time. Couple that with one of the worst, rainiest summers in memory, and the UK is one massive miserable combination. 

Eep! Reading that back, I'm not sure that the tourist board will be hiring me any time soon


----------



## Pesky Wesky

tobyo said:


> okay, I've got to take a break soon. but this is night #3 reading this thread and it will likely take me the next week to get through it all......so thought I'd pipe in now to let you all know that this thread is VERY helpful to me!! Even tho I'm American, alot of the advice is useful to me too. don't worry, I won't keep my property in the UK  and I have pretty much already decided I'd rather not have the hassle of buying property in Spain. ewie. and for sure I will sell my house here in MN. It will add to the nest egg I hope to have in about 10 years when/if we move to Spain to retire. we have one daughter and that is one HUGE concern of mine so interesting to read that advice. I keep joking w/hubby that she'll be so rich that she'll be able to visit us lots of times. hey, it could happen
> 
> Yep, we had two great trips to Spain in the last year or so. I also spent my junior year of college in Madrid. I had been talking about Spain our entire married life (and going on 23 years together, like last week! whoa...) and we saved and saved and planned and planned and last May hubby fell in love with Spain. We went back 10 months later to celebrate our 20th anniversary and had another nice time in Spain. didn't lessen his desire to want to BE IN SPAIN!! currently hoping to go back in 5 years, unless we win the lottery (don't laugh, my mother actually did win the FL lottery!!), then we'll be back sooner than 5 years. Another fact-finding trip methinks.
> 
> anyhoo, all this to say thanks for all the great discussion here. I am truly appreciating it!!


It's good to know someone is reading this and finding it useful!

Feel free to chip in and ask any questions you might have


----------



## tobyo

I will Pesky Wesky, thanks!


----------



## Millie55

This thread and this whole site has been a life saver for me and hubby! We have a house in Mallorca which we cannot sell, even though we have reduced it considerably. Although we love it over there we didn't really want to live there full time, but we have both resigned ourselves to that now. The world has changed so much over the last three or four years financially. My husband wants to retire as soon as he can (nearly state pension age) and when he gives up we will be driving down to M with our dog the very next day. We have done a lot of planning and researching so that we don't get any nasty shocks. I think the biggest problem for me once the excitement of living in a foreign country has worn off, will be missing my three grown up kids and the two grandchildren. Coping strategies will be needed!
But thanks once again for providing practical and sobering advice about moving to Spain and the cost of living.
M


----------



## mrypg9

It's that time of year again, isn't it.....
Happy memories of holidays in the sun, the shock of returning to cold, wet boring old UK.....
So...let's move to Spain.....
Apart from all the practical difficulties that have been pointed out, living in a country is oh so different from spending your holidays there, even if you visit frequently.
I had visited Czechoslovakia/the Czech Republic several times a year since I was a student in 1969 but soon found that actually living there was something I was not prepared for.
OK, Spain is probably an easier place to settle in, although in Prague you can't move for tripping over British 'TEFL teachers' but being somewhere on a full-time basis is so different from the carefree weeks of holidays.


----------



## xabiaxica

I just had a curious conversation with my 15 year old daughter

when she was in 1st year secondary, there were 6 classes of 25-30 kids, and the same in 2nd year

in 3rd year there were 5 classes but now in 4th year there are just 3

some of this 'loss' is due to kids being held back & leaving at 16 whether or not they have actually passed the graduation exams - but from what she says an awful lot more is due to people leaving the country - certainly we personally know of people leaving all the time

my 12 year old has just started in 1st year secondary - there are 5 classes in her year

it will be interesting to see how that pans out over the next 4 years


----------



## lfcneil40

Wow, read some of this thread, some great advice on here.
I've wanted to emigrate to Spain for years now, as like a fair few on here, I have seen the decline in the UK coming. Funny I saw mentioned about taxes etc going up.
My partner has taken a live in position in the Hotel where she works, in a flat at the top of a hotel in Scotland, no rent or bills, brilliant, means we can save up and are doing, to emigrate in a couple of years. Angus council, bless them, have realised after all these years, that the Flat at the top of the Hotel is lived in, and sent a council tax bill of £1345 for a year (your water gets paid as part of CT in Scotland).
OK, CT can be charged on a residential property, and is rip off in itself, but they charge the hotel over £4500 a year for it Council Tax, and have known the flat is for use of employees to live in, it was in the original documents when CT was first brought out.
ONLY...... They have now found, if they change the criteria, it means they take £60 off the original bill (yep £60) and charge whoever lives in £1345. Bare in mind this is the same water bill, and on top of land already being taxed.
That is an excellent example of rip off.
At least its the only bill we pay, although I think the gas and electric are trying now to bill us separately, although there is only one meter for the whole building.

Oh well.
Just a tip for anyone trying to learn Spanish to emigrate. I use a site called buusu.com It's free and pretty easy going.


----------



## jojo

Council tax is a lot cheaper in Spain, but then wages tend to be a lot lower so its kinda of no benefit . I think the difference is that the UK councils have so many layers of communications, hierarchy and workforce that it costs more to do anything - it also keeps people in jobs tho and on higher wages than in Spain!? But the average taxpayer is also paying for those who cant afford to pay it or who are on benefits - thats how I see it anyway

Jo xxx


----------



## baldilocks

Millie55 said:


> This thread and this whole site has been a life saver for me and hubby! We have a house in Mallorca which we cannot sell, even though we have reduced it considerably. Although we love it over there we didn't really want to live there full time, but we have both resigned ourselves to that now. The world has changed so much over the last three or four years financially. My husband wants to retire as soon as he can (nearly state pension age) and when he gives up we will be driving down to M with our dog the very next day. We have done a lot of planning and researching so that we don't get any nasty shocks. I think the biggest problem for me once the excitement of living in a foreign country has worn off, will be missing my three grown up kids and the two grandchildren. Coping strategies will be needed!
> But thanks once again for providing practical and sobering advice about moving to Spain and the cost of living.
> M


You won't miss them at all. You'll just be glad when they say they'd thought about taking their freeloader's holiday with someone else this year! Sorry, but it's true!


----------



## jojo

baldilocks said:


> You won't miss them at all. You'll just be glad when they say they'd thought about taking their freeloader's holiday with someone else this year! Sorry, but it's true!


you are such a cynic Baldi! I actually found that I spent more "quality time" with my older daughters when I was in Spain. We chatted on Skype, facebook, phone etc and they visited a fair amount. Since I've been back in the UK (6 weeks) I've only seen one of my daughters 3 times and spoken to her a couple of times on the phone... and she's only down the road. I think thats the problem, we dont bother cos we know we're nearby!

Interestingly, my other daughter is looking to move to Dubai with her fiancé (they'll have to get married if they do EEEEK!!), so me being in the UK will make no difference!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## stevelin

Im the same as Jo I speak most days on Skype with my daughter and my 2 young grandsons sometimes for nearly an hour the grandsons love showing me things on the webcam. We also go back regularly and stay with them so have 24 hrs a day quality time with them. There other grandparents see then about once or twice a week for a couple of hours and only live 5 mins away. They also visit here so again get to spend quality time with them all


----------



## baldilocks

jojo said:


> you are such a cynic Baldi
> Jo xxx


With reason!

In the UK (or anywhere, for that matter) I only have one sister who has three daughters. The only one of the four I hear from is my sister, telling us the flight number to pick her up from at Málaga. One of the nieces came with her last time, seemed to enjoy herself but we haven't heard a word from her since!

I always send a birthday card (electronic these days) but never get anything back so the me! me! me! brigade I can well do without!


----------



## xabiaxica

I thought I'd resurrect this & get it back on topic 

none of us would deny that times are tough here in Spain atm - far worse than when PeskyWesky started the thread


2 questions you need to ask yourself at the moment if you want to come to live in Spain right now:

Do I have a secure, contracted job offer in Spain?

Do I have a secure income from outside Spain?

if NO to both - forget it if you have a family to support - think twice if it's just you



feel free to add yours folks!


----------



## jojo

If you're young, have a growing family and need to have a job, I think you need to ask yourself WHY you want to come to Spain. It really isnt enough to say that you dont like the UK, its laws, its immigration policies, its weather, and Spain has a relaxed lifestyle etc....... When times are hard, the best, most secure place to be is* home*, where you understand the rules, the language, the officialdom and have family and friends. and dont underestimate how much it actually costs to move to Spain properly

jo xxx


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Goodness! How much things have changed, for the worse, in just one year...


----------



## mrypg9

Pesky Wesky said:


> Goodness! How much things have changed, for the worse, in just one year...


I fear you will be saying that again on October 13th 2012....


----------



## baldilocks

Pesky Wesky said:


> Goodness! How much things have changed, for the worse, in just one year...


But that is in the UK! Here, we have hardly noticed any difference, other than a few Brits have gone back to UK, but they are ones who came with impossible dreams and no income to back them up.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

baldilocks said:


> But that is in the UK! Here, we have hardly noticed any difference, other than a few Brits have gone back to UK, but they are ones who came with impossible dreams and no income to back them up.


I can understand that you, who is retired and living in a small place in the south, and financially sound does not appreciate a difference. But I am working, near the capital city, with a husband who's a teacher and, perhaps most importantly, have a 17 year old daughter wanting to make her way in the world. 2 different worlds baldilocks, that's the thing.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

mrypg9 said:


> I fear you will be saying that again on October 13th 2012....


So do I "fear" 
and that's the problem


----------



## mrypg9

Pesky Wesky said:


> So do I "fear"
> and that's the problem


Me too. I'm extremely despondent.
I'm thinking of changing my name to Helena Handcart.


----------



## jojo

baldilocks said:


> But that is in the UK! Here, we have hardly noticed any difference, other than a few Brits have gone back to UK, but they are ones who came with impossible dreams and no income to back them up.


TBH, its no worse here (the UK) than it was - on a day to day level. Jobs are apparently scarce, but a friend of mine who lost her job a couple of months ago has just found a new one, shops are still heaving and many are advertising for extra christmas staff, the roads are just as busy.... I'm not saying there isnt a problem, but its certainly being sensationalised and made worse by the media as usual

Jo xxx


----------



## fourgotospain

At the risk of giving anyone false hope...

....two years on we are OK, just about solvent, two businesses that we researched and continue to evolve. BUT that's not to say it hasn't been a wild ride, and I don't trust it will be gentle from now on either. We made our share of mistakes and would maybe have done some things differently but isn't hindsight perfect? 

One mistake we made was still having financial commitments in the UK, so we have been paying that off too - nearly done though. We could have moved later, but then my eldest daughter would have been too old for spanish school...so we'd be into international school fees 

We work extremely hard - although we try to work only 6 days a week, we have had 2 long weekends 'off' in nearly 2 years, including Christmas, Easter, Bank Holidays. It's easy to forget all the freebie days when your employed by someone else.

We revel in being tenants here, as that is one load of worries off our minds. We have our house in UK which periodically troubles us with tenant changeovers and chasing the agent. 

Life is frantic. Don't under-estimate doing everything in a different language, because 'everyone speaks english' is not true, not if you want the best deal and a job well done.

But we're happy, kids are settled, we pay our autonomo and have plans in place for when we can't work this way anymore. We are quite lucky I think in terms of the personal timing of this recession - our children have at least another 7 years before they need a job, and we are 20+ years from anything like retirement age. We have to hang on and work as hard and smart as possible. For others with teens and approaching annuities it must be very different.


----------



## xabiaxica

fourgotospain said:


> At the risk of giving anyone false hope...
> 
> ....two years on we are OK, just about solvent, two businesses that we researched and continue to evolve. BUT that's not to say it hasn't been a wild ride, and I don't trust it will be gentle from now on either. We made our share of mistakes and would maybe have done some things differently but isn't hindsight perfect?
> 
> One mistake we made was still having financial commitments in the UK, so we have been paying that off too - nearly done though. We could have moved later, but then my eldest daughter would have been too old for spanish school...so we'd be into international school fees
> 
> We work extremely hard - although we try to work only 6 days a week, we have had 2 long weekends 'off' in nearly 2 years, including Christmas, Easter, Bank Holidays. It's easy to forget all the freebie days when your employed by someone else.
> 
> We revel in being tenants here, as that is one load of worries off our minds. We have our house in UK which periodically troubles us with tenant changeovers and chasing the agent.
> 
> Life is frantic. Don't under-estimate doing everything in a different language, because 'everyone speaks english' is not true, not if you want the best deal and a job well done.
> 
> But we're happy, kids are settled, we pay our autonomo and have plans in place for when we can't work this way anymore. We are quite lucky I think in terms of the personal timing of this recession - our children have at least another 7 years before they need a job, and we are 20+ years from anything like retirement age. We have to hang on and work as hard and smart as possible. For others with teens and approaching annuities it must be very different.


yes - you sure are one of the exceptions that proves the rule :clap2:

I think the main point which so many won't believe/think about in advance is that it is extremely HARD WORK starting/running a business in Spain - or anywhere else to be fair, but in the 'home country' there isn't unfamiliar bureaucracy in a strange language to deal with


2 long weekends off in 2 years..........I doubt many who think of life in 'sunny spain' means longer working hours than they are used to


although, at least when you have a few hours off it's a fantastic place to be


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## mrypg9

It all depends what you come with and in that I would include financial resources, business experience, judgment and professional or other qualifications.
Anyone who uses the phrase 'living the dream' is doomed.
If you are finding life in the UK hard, you'll find it hard here too.
Of course some people will settle down and do well. These kind of people would survive anywhere.
Just as losers are losers wherever they live.


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## lesley rowan

Pesky Wesky said:


> What advice would you give to people who wish to emigrate from the UK to Spain?
> 
> I'll start the ball rolling by stating the obvious ...
> 
> Learn as much Spanish as is humanly possible for you. The more you learn the better, even if you want to be in an area dominated by the Brits, you will receive correspondence in Spanish and will possibly find youself in situations where Spanish will be needed. Think about the emergency room at the hospital with no interpreter available, stopped at a checkpoint by the police, trying to get the phone fixed and speaking to the call centre of the biggest phone company here, Telefónica.(Actually if you get anyone to answer your call you'll probably fall over in shock, but that's a diferent story!!)
> 
> There are different types of people who may want to move; retired people, young people with families, young people with no ties, people passing through, middle aged people whose children have left home.... They all have different needs, but all of them will have an improved existence if they learn the language.
> Two more points;
> Not all of us are language learners, that's why I say learn as much as YOU can. Effort is needed, children might soak it up, but adults usually need more of a "scrub" to make it stick. Usually local people like to see that you're making an effort, and that effort will be appreciated. Likewise the opposite will also be noted.
> 
> There are various local languages in Spain including Catalan and Euskera (Basque). Before you come to Spain you need to know what's what in the area you're going to, especially if you have children (think about the schools). You may end up having to learn two new languages! I emphasise Spanish because all Spaniards speak Spanish - even if some don't like to!
> 
> More advice from people who are already living in Spain????



hi im thinking about moving to spain early next year im 24 and work on the oil rigs and will be travelling back every 3 weeks.but really dont know were to start do you have any pointers??that would be a great help:focus:


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## xabiaxica

lesley rowan said:


> hi im thinking about moving to spain early next year im 24 and work on the oil rigs and will be travelling back every 3 weeks.but really dont know were to start do you have any pointers??that would be a great help:focus:


hi & welcome

first - have a good long read of lots of the forum

then - decide WHERE in Spain you want/need to be - airport access for instance

& then - come back & ask some specific questions


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## Pesky Wesky

lesley rowan said:


> hi im thinking about moving to spain early next year im 24 and work on the oil rigs and will be travelling back every 3 weeks.but really dont know were to start do you have any pointers??that would be a great help:focus:


This thread (and others) has loads of "pointers" on it. take your time and look through. Then, as xabiachica has said, see if you have any more specific questions


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## jojo

lesley rowan said:


> hi im thinking about moving to spain early next year im 24 and work on the oil rigs and will be travelling back every 3 weeks.but really dont know were to start do you have any pointers??that would be a great help:focus:


Theres a few "commuters" on here. You first of all need to establish good airport connections. We found that Malaga had the most frequent and cheapest flights to our local airport in the UK - Gatwick, so we then looked around the Malaga area for suitable/practical towns and properties to rent, that appealed to us. From there you go look at them, see if they're suitable to your needs and wishes and then open a bank account, sign the contract and move in. Once you're in, you need to getyour NIE number and residencia from the local foreigners office/police station. But as the others have said, take a look around the forum for tips and bits and pieces of info. I'm sure there'll be stuff that you havent thought of

Jo xxx


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## Alcalaina

lesley rowan said:


> hi im thinking about moving to spain early next year im 24 and work on the oil rigs and will be travelling back every 3 weeks.but really dont know were to start do you have any pointers??that would be a great help:focus:


Depends what you want to do while you are in Spain - beach life? clubbing? 

Barcelona has a very good scene and of course it's a lot nearer to the UK than Malaga so your flights will be shorter!


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## lesley rowan

Alcalaina said:


> Depends what you want to do while you are in Spain - beach life? clubbing?
> 
> Barcelona has a very good scene and of course it's a lot nearer to the UK than Malaga so your flights will be shorter!


i just want to be in the sun really nightlife is ofcourse on the cards but somewhere quiet too.


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## tobyo

mrypg9 said:


> Me too. I'm extremely despondent.
> I'm thinking of changing my name to Helena Handcart.


I always thought it was Helena Handbasket 

must be the American version


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## tobyo

by the way.....

didn't mean to make light of the situation in Spain with my comment above. it's ugly everywhere right now and it's hard to watch and experience. I wish I had a magic wand to solve the world's economic news these days  

both hubby and I have good paying jobs and work hard, but even for us, stuck solidly in the middle class, we feel the squeeze as prices continue to rise and wages not keeping up which forces us to live basically paycheck to paycheck. and we're helping some old, dear friends not lose their house in CA....that we really can't afford but we can't let them lose their house....and on and on it goes. 

the point of the poster who revived this thread was basically to be aware of the situation in Spain before you make a move there. I was just reading something (a link I found here I believe) about it taking 15 years to return back to the level things were at before things started to decline. I think that was 2007. goodness, 15 years?!?!?!?! oh heavy sigh....


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