# Do I stay or do I go now?



## followyourdreams (Oct 29, 2016)

Hola - a cry for help - I really need some advice on whether to stay in my comfortable UK life/job, or gamble on following my dream of becoming one of those brave people that work in Gibraltar and live across the border in Spain.

I've been thinking about it for years, I've lived abroad previously (in Italy) and whilst my financial services job in the UK is well-paid and secure, and my city (Bristol) is great, I can't stop thinking about taking the plunge and starting a new life in Spain.

I've done lots of research, but since the Brexit I fear the dream is looking more and more unlikely, which makes me kind of sad. I believe people should always follow their dreams.

My reasons for moving: 

My Dad passed away earlier this year. 2 things came from this. 1. I recognised how short and fragile life is, too short to be stuck in a 9 to 5 career I don't like etc (rat race). 2. He left me about £50K (UK Sterling). Very nice. I thought it best used as a deposit on a house. I saw a mortgage adviser and was hit with the harsh realisation that I'll be working for the next 30+ years (I'm 38 years old now) to buy an overpriced house that is just 'ok' for £250K+. Property prices here are simply obscene. It makes me angry. 

I found a 2 bed apartment in Spain for £100K and many similar on Kyero (those golf course development properties seem too good to be true, and I dont even like golf)

The weather and Spanish lifestyle is so appealing too

So I say to myself - why don't people take advantage of cheaper houses in the sun? I guess the answer is employment, and being away from family etc. I'm fine with not being close to home, and my financial services background means I can secure a job in Gibraltar. So what am I missing? I could be mortgage free in a few years surely? Concerns I can think of: 

Brexit - 

Working Gib/living in Spain - Surely Andalusian economy relies partly on those that commute? What could change when UK leaves EU? Reciprocal agreements would mean any privileges denied to expats living in Spain could cause same problems for Spanish people living in the UK? Healthcare etc? Could there be some rule that says I can only stay for 90 days a year perhaps? Internet research has only discovered guesswork into what could change.

Don't speak Spanish - but I enjoy learning a new language, I learnt basic Italian

Bit worried about being able to sell a property if I decide I don't like life in Spain and want to go home - who would buy it? Obviously I'd rent till settled and currency stabilises. 

Bit worried I'd be bored after the honeymoon period of life in the sun wears off. Bristol is a big city with lots going on all the time. Some of the places I've looked at living seem to be more suited to those wanting a quieter life. It's great to enjoy a beach holiday but to live there? Would it suit a white-collar city boy who likes to work hard and play hard? 

Where to live (another topic perhaps) I've read a few unpleasant things about La Linea but obviously it is more convenient for Gib. Looking anywhere that is a motorbike ride away, maybe east coast - Sotogrande (nice but too quiet?) 

I guess what I am asking is - what am I not think of? I read stories of illegal houses, paying 2 kinds of tax, needing a visa post-brexit, Pound vs Euro terrible, Spain wanting to take back Gib/close border, being denied residency, am I being a fool basically for considering such a huge gamble? Giving up the safety and security of life in the UK to risk an unknown future in Gib/Spain? 

Sorry for the long message - lot's on my mind, appreciate any thoughts. Thanks for reading


----------



## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola 

Yes you're dreaming; far too many imponderables - but if everything came together then it could work. The real decision is what happens if everything fails, the house prices falls to nothing and you have to return - could you survive? 

All those here weren't sure about the future - and probably life is a lot different from what they imagined it would be - but they survived here having adapted. 

Davexf


----------



## followyourdreams (Oct 29, 2016)

Thanks Davexf. 
Maybe a harsh dose of reality is what I need. I guess if I lost my job in Gib (if I get one) and I'd purchased a property in Spain which had massively dropped in value, then I could return to the UK, stay with family, and find employment relatively quickly. This would be the worst case scenario I suppose. 
My friends think I perhaps have the rose-tinted Ray Bans on, which is a fair point. However, so many people just settle with what life throws at them, and for whatever reason don't have the courage to try and make that change. 
My problem is that I don't know if life would better over there. It's a leap into the unknown. I dream of a nice apartment and the sun on my face. 100K could buy that in Spain if I could work in Gib and commute. 100K here in UK wouldn't buy a studio flat above a kebab shop in the crack den area of the city. So surely it is worth looking into? 
Really don't know whether to move asap, rent, build up some local knowledge and a couple of years of residency status, plus see if I really do like living over there, or to wait it out and see what changes Brexit-wise. Sigh, as you say, so many imponderables. Thanks though


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I can only say that long before Brexit was even a possibility, I would have loved to have been able to move to Spain before I actually did, but I felt it best to stick it out with a good job in the UK until such time as I knew for certain that I'd have enough to live on comfortably until my pensions became payable. I made that move 10 years ago and have never regretted doing it that way, and I think if it were me, having to make the decision now, there would be just too many unknowns arising out of Brexit for me to decide to move at this time. I'd have to wait and see how things actually panned out. But that's just me!

In terms of lifestyle, I'd say that a large city like Málaga, Valencia or Barcelona would probably suit you a lot better than some golf development. Estepona is said to be a pretty vibrant place and not too far from Gibraltar to commute, though. I don't know the town myself but we have forum members living there who could tell you more. However, I think property prices both there and in Sotogrande would be more in line with those you've come across in Bristol than the €100k apartments you've seen. Remember also that buying and selliing costs are much higher than they are in the UK - you have to allow at least 10% in Andalucia for property transfer tax, legal and notary fees. If you sell a property estate agents' commission is normally around 5% of the sale price and there is also plus valia (a local tax on the increase in land value during the time you've owned the property) and possibly capital gains tax to pay if you sell at a profit. Therefore if you sell after just a couple of years you'd have to make a profit of at least 20% on the property just to break even and that is cloud cuckoo land in the current property market.


----------



## followyourdreams (Oct 29, 2016)

Thanks Lynn, appreciate your comments. I'll certainly do some more research into where to live over there. I too have heard good things about Estepona so I'll take a look. As you say, so many unknowns. Perhaps a year working in Gib and renting will be a good idea and give me the chance to explore the areas and see if it really is something I want to do, without risking too much. Thanks for getting back to me.


----------



## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Your posting is verrrrry long and I tended to skip over some of it, you might get better advise if you ask more specific questions relating to your situation.

If you have already secured a position in Gibraltar then go for it, but if you think jobs are plentiful then I think you need to do much more research. 

Steve


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

There certainly are many unknowns and don't forget life here can be pretty hard too. I don't know what working hours are like in Gib, but in Spain work timetables can be very "flexible" if you know what I mean and the concept of paid overtime in office work seems not to be understood here.
Going to work, getting the shopping and cooking every night can be as equally mundane in Spain as in grey skied Bristol. As you say, the honeymoon period may well wear off.
Don't forget it does rain here and it does get cold although not usually for months on end and where I live at least you usually see blue sky every single day (My avatar is the result of the last 2 weeks when it has been unusually rainy, but then this year everything has been unusual. The summer was unbearably hot, so the rain was welcome. Today we're back to temps in the 20ºs which actually is not good news). The houses can be very difficult to live in in the winter months and are often colder than it is outside.
BUT
If you don't have dependants and you are single you could give it a go. The main (but not the only) stumbling block is employment as you have already identified. Don't come without a job, that for me is golden. I'm not sure what working in financial services is exactly, but it sounds like the kind of thing you might only be able to find work in in Gib, not speaking Spanish. You have to think seriously about job prospects. Gib is only a small place and already bursting at the seams from what I hear, so there must be a limit to the amount of work there. I don't know if you've been there, but it's not everyone's cup of tea. I think you're right that a lot of places are small and you might miss the bright lights of "Brissol".
Could you telework? That would give you an opportunity to explore possibilities like Bilbao, Barcelona, Madrid, Valencia and surroundings.
If you do get a job, what about renting for a year to see how it goes, see if you like the life?

But for me, more than anything is the shadow of Brexit over everything. No one knows what will happen so don't let anyone tell you that probably, possibly, or perhaps bla, bla,bla because really, no one knows. We will probably (there I go!) know something soon so hang on and see where we're going before you make firm plans, Meanwhile see what the job market's doing and step up the Spanish because whatever happens Spain will still be here for holidays and we need your cash!!
PS Great song, wasn't it?!?


----------



## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

Start looking for a job from there. If you can find employment, and can cover your expenses here, then you can rent and see how you like it. If you do decide to return to the UK after a year, you'll be no worse off financially than you are now, maybe even better off, if your inheritance earns some interest.


----------



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

No-one knows what will happen re. UK citizens in Europe and Brexit.

No-one knows what will happen re. Gibraltar and Brexit.

There is really no-where like Bristol in that area - Malaga (too far to commute) has some aspects as does Marbella. Gibraltar itself has some of the bustle of a big city - I know some people who enjoy living there. Estepona is wonderful in many ways but Bristol it ain't.

Definitely rent - don't think about buying until you have lived in the area for - I would say - a year.

I know many people who live in Spain and work in Gibraltar and many of them are feeling insecure right now.

If I were you I would earn some money in Bristol over the next 3-5 years and see how the land lies then - we should have got somewhere with Brexit by then and things might be clearer.


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I live near Estepona town and yes, it's a great place to live but no way will you find a half-way decent apartment for 100k euros. Of course there are pisos like that around but cheap is cheap for a reason and even in a fairly tranquil place like Estepona there are apartments over crack dens.
I'm a bit unimaginative, I guess, but I prefer planning to dreaming. It's very easy for dreams to become nightmares for those who see life in Spain or anywhere as one long idyll of sun, sangria, laid-back lifestyle..
People say it's cheaper to live in Spain but that's not my experience, tbh. For one thing, I didn't come to Spain to save money. I'm retired and want the same or even better lifestyle that I had in the UK and I enjoyed my life back 'home' as the UK then was for me.
Again, as I'm totally lacking in romanticism of any kind, I firmly believe that a crucial ingredient of a happy life anywhere is lack of money worries. You need enough to fund your chosen lifestyle, be it one of frantic socialising and clubbing or a quiet sedate life but in comfortable, pleasing surroundings. I'm certainly not rich but like Lynn and others who waited until we could plan a reasonably secure future before leaving the UK I can survive whatever happens to us immigrants here post-Brexit.
Like you I've lived in other countries, mainly Germany and Central and Eastern Europe so moving to Spain from Prague eight years ago was no big upheaval. I think that your experience will be very helpful to you if you decide on the move.
So to sum up..
if you can afford to move, have a job lined up, have a fallback plan B and have no dependants you are responsible for, try it.
But at the end of the day, life anywhere is what you make it, Spain is just a country comme les autres, not the paradise on earth some make it out to be but a happier place to live than some places I've spent time in and to my taste less attractive than a couple of other places I'd like to live but can't afford to.
The main thing is to have an 'escape plan'.


----------



## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Go for it
You're a long time dead


----------



## st3v3y (Aug 27, 2015)

mrypg9 said:


> So to sum up..
> if you can afford to move, have a job lined up, have a fallback plan B and have no dependants you are responsible for, try it.


Everything that Mary said makes sense but if this sentence applies then I'd go for it, just as Rabbit suggests.

Ask yourself, what's the worst that can happen? Like you said, renting is the way to go and you get more for your money in Spain than the UK. As for partying hard then I can only ever party to the point that I drink too much and you can easily manage that in the many bars in Gib. If you want to experience a more expat bars, restaurant type of affair then Duquesa will give you that. That's about 25 minutes from Gib and another 10 minutes gets you to Estepona where you will find more of a mixture with a distinctly more Spanish feel.

There are so many reasons to move to Spain but whatever you decide, life is for living and if you end up returning to the UK in 3 or 4 years then you'll do so with no regrets where as if you stay in the UK you will more than likely wonder about the what if and maybe regret not giving it a go.

As for Brexit well I'd say there was a fair chance that interest rates will increase in the next few months because without that there will be a continued lack of investment into the UK. Interest rate increases give confidence to investors. There will also be an increase in inflation and things in the UK will get more expensive which you may find makes Spain even more appealing. The upside to this of course is that your inheritance will at least benefit in a small way from the interest rate increase but that will be minimal but is worth mentioning.

So if Mary's post applies to you then go for it. Life is for living!!


----------



## ccm47 (Oct 15, 2013)

Just some brainstorm thoughts.
50k sounds a lot when you haven't got it, and when you have you realise how little that is.
However Bristol/Bath are very expensive these days in which to buy property.
Have you thought of:
Westonsupermare ? Property is much cheaper, but commutable into the city
a move to working in London, and commuting from a city like Peterborough, where property is MUCH cheaper. Salary should be higher though.
Stay working in Bristol but buy a holiday property in Spain, or any other country, other than on the CDS property can be much cheaper. Will need to be close to an airport which has flights all year round.
Buy a buy to let property in cheaper part of UK, rent in Spain, work in Gib. This would provide a plan B.


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

ccm47 said:


> Just some brainstorm thoughts.
> 50k sounds a lot when you haven't got it, and when you have you realise how little that is.
> However Bristol/Bath are very expensive these days in which to buy property.
> Have you thought of:
> ...


Some good options there. I prefer the last one.


----------



## Dreamwork (Feb 21, 2016)

I was recently looking online at property prices in Paulton (a small town not far from Bristol) very nice newish build apartment £130,000. If your motivation is property then stay in or near Bristol. If you want a new life/the sun/adventure move to Spain and make it work. Renting to start with would be best.


----------



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

I can confirm that property is much cheaper in Weston Super Mare than in Bristol and there are good rail links into Bristol too so easy commute.

Weston super Mare is a bit like Estepona.


----------



## GinaRockey (Jun 26, 2016)

jimenato said:


> I can confirm that property is much cheaper in Weston Super Mare than in Bristol and there are good rail links into Bristol too so easy commute.
> 
> Weston super Mare is a bit like Estepona.


Except for all that mud lurking beneath the sand waiting to catch unsuspecting dog walkers at low tide


----------



## ccm47 (Oct 15, 2013)

I know which option of Paulton or Spain I'd choose, and it isn't Paulton. My sister and BIL moved to and, in due course, died there. They were very active in village life, particularly my sister. I spent the best part of 30 years visiting and trying to see anything remotely attractive about it.
OP, go to Spain.


----------



## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

I would go along with what others have said so far.
Also when considering any move to Spain to live and work - or in your case, live in Spain ( but commutable to Gib )
and work in Gibraltar.
It's always best to find and secure a job offer first before making the ( work abroad ) move.

No doubt with your background in financial services you would be looking for a career with an offshore bank or investment house in Gibraltar.
For those vacancies that do occur, you will no doubt be competing with other likely candidates from the EU, Spain
and Gibraltar. With all the uncertainty over Brexit and all this talk of it being a Hard Brexit, how it's 
going to affect Gibraltar let alone the UK is anyone's guess.

One things for sure if you don't know, we don't know and ( let's be honest here !! ) even Theresa May's Brexit team don't know how it's going to impact British Expats and prospective British Expats looking for opportunities
abroad within the EU.

So how is this question going to look for any prospective employer looking at your application, in comparison to an English speaking Spaniard with the same background, two more from Gibraltar who although resident fall far short on background & experience or that of an Irish candidate ( for example ) from Dublin who more or less matches your skills and experience but with the added advantage being that he or she has an Irish Passport with no quibble rights in the EU and therefore unaffected by Brexit.
The same would be true of a Northern Irish candidate where all people born in Northern Ireland of Irish or Northern Irish parents have a ( no quibble ) right to an Irish passport.

*Finally - beware of vetting* - anyone who works in financial services in the UK would 99 times out of a 100 have had to pass vetting in order to be offered a job with the banks and other financial services organisations in the UK.

Experian the Credit Reference Agency up in Nottingham requires most of their candidates to pass SC Security Clearance.

Unless your only out of the country for a short term assignment. You would lose your British residency status. If for 
instance your new job abroad doesn't work out, it's not for you or you find yourself returning to the UK for other reasons.
Then you could find yourself banging your head against a brick wall for 5 years upon your return to the UK.
For as you might know or have heard from others, you will need to re-establish your permanent residency in
the UK first.

You will need to have lived and ( in most cases ) worked in the UK for at least 5 years ( after your return ) to re-establish your presence with the Vetting Agencies, with everything from your British credit record, checkable criminal history and evidence that your not a bad debtor or anything else that might deem you a security risk.


----------



## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Just go for it

Too many members on here are too slow at making their minds up about things and take forever making a decision..........!!!!


----------



## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Rabbitcat said:


> Just go for it
> 
> Too many members on here are too slow at making their minds up about things and take forever making a decision..........!!!!


On the other hand there are very many people who have make the proverbial leap without looking carefully first and have forever regretted it.
We decided to leave the UK in late September 2005 and were gone by mid-December. We decided to leave Prague in late August 2008 and were gone in late November. So we can't be accused of prevaricating.
But when people say stuff like 'life is too short' my thoughts are that yes, but it's long enough to regret hasty and ill-thought out decisions.
Moving to another country isn't like deciding which restaurant to have lunch in. Get it wrong and dreams easily become nightmares.
So I wouldn't tell anyone to 'Go for it' unless all the circumstances were right. It's easy to give advice when you don't have to live with the consequences, good or bad.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Just go for it
> 
> Too many members on here are too slow at making their minds up about things and take forever making a decision..........!!!!


hmmmmm

Remind us.....HOW long have you been trying to decide where to move to? 
:behindsofa: :bolt:


----------



## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Ah, but but, splutter splutter-that's entirely different!!


----------



## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Rabbitcat said:


> Just go for it
> 
> Too many members on here are too slow at making their minds up about things and take forever making a decision..........!!!!


A word to the wise - look before you leap !!


----------



## Tigerlillie (Apr 7, 2015)

Rabbitcat said:


> Go for it
> You're a long time dead


If it wasn't for this ridiculous Brexit fiasco I would entirely agree with you but the OP is from The UK and who knows what is going to happen, especially concerning the border between Gib and Spain.
You can afford to say go for it you have an Irish passport.
And what Xabiachica said too


----------



## Dreamwork (Feb 21, 2016)

ccm47 said:


> I know which option of Paulton or Spain I'd choose, and it isn't Paulton. My sister and BIL moved to and, in due course, died there. They were very active in village life, particularly my sister. I spent the best part of 30 years visiting and trying to see anything remotely attractive about it.
> OP, go to Spain.


My point was there are options to buy property on the outskirts of Bristol if thats what they want.


----------



## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Williams2 said:


> A word to the wise - look before you leap !!


Well fair enough some people like to be more cautious 

As the old saying goes " Rome wasn't built by birds looking before they leapt, in the bush"


----------



## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

My advice to the OP would be to forget about buying property in Spain to begin with because it's a bit of a minefield and a decison you need to get right first time due to the slow market and high costs involved. Also double-check whether commuting to Gibraltar from Spain every day is really "escaping the rat race". That´s not to say don´t give it a go though, I can´t see how working in Gibraltar for a couple of years would be two years of your life wasted if you decide to return. Just don´t burn your bridges (if you have any that is)


----------



## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Chopera said:


> My advice to the OP would be to forget about buying property in Spain to begin with because it's a bit of a minefield and a decison you need to get right first time due to the slow market and high costs involved. Also double-check whether commuting to Gibraltar from Spain every day is really "escaping the rat race". That´s not to say don´t give it a go though, I can´t see how working in Gibraltar for a couple of years would be two years of your life wasted if you decide to return. Just don´t burn your bridges (if you have any that is)


I would prefer a commute to Gibraltar compared with one on Southern rail to London I would not buy in Spain though, especially if you are new to the area.

One thing to be wary of is the possible closure of the border even though La Linea wouldn't be pleased.


----------



## Gfplux (Jun 27, 2016)

followyourdreams said:


> Hola - a cry for help - I really need some advice on whether to stay in my comfortable UK life/job, or gamble on following my dream of becoming one of those brave people that work in Gibraltar and live across the border in Spain.
> 
> I've been thinking about it for years, I've lived abroad previously (in Italy) and whilst my financial services job in the UK is well-paid and secure, and my city (Bristol) is great, I can't stop thinking about taking the plunge and starting a new life in Spain.
> 
> ...


You are very lucky to have a lot of good advise.
I think it is always about step by step. For me your first step is employment.
If you work in financial services do you know you can get a job in Gib. Have you looked, have you applied, have you prepared your CV.
With Brexit looming are Gibraltar Company's even hiring now or is there a head count freeze.


----------



## Gran Erry-Bredd (Nov 1, 2016)

Pesky Wesky...Hola Goodbye....That was a great song.


----------



## followyourdreams (Oct 29, 2016)

Wow, lots of great advice and comments on here, thanks everyone, was not expecting such a huge response. I'll muse on it and may return with more questions. Thanks to you all


----------

