# ryan air rip off!!!!!



## merlindale (Jun 23, 2008)

hi everyone,

diane here, ive not been on for ages, humble apologies to you all. my parents have finally made the big move, to agus nevis, and they are loving the new way of life.

i am just back from popping over to see them, and i got a great price for a flight from ryanair. i am on the forum just to warn potential travellers, that if you are only going with hand luggage, please book in online and obtain your boarding pass from your personal computer, or you will be charged 20 quid for a member of ryanair to do this for you, each way! about 90% of my flight were charged this outbound, but luckily enuf for me i was able to use my parents computer whilst in spain and i printed off my boarding card.

hope everyone is well, thanks for looking

:juggle:


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

merlindale said:


> hi everyone,
> 
> diane here, ive not been on for ages, humble apologies to you all. my parents have finally made the big move, to agus nevis, and they are loving the new way of life.
> 
> ...


Hi Diane, yes I hear Ryan air are causing a few controversies at the mo. Fortunately they dont do a malaga to gatwick... well not that I've seen!! All the airlines are trying it on and its a cut throat market for them and us!!

I heard ryan air were even gonna charge people to use their toilets on board!!??

Jo xxx


----------



## merlindale (Jun 23, 2008)

hi,

lol ye so i heard, fortunately for me i didnt need to go!!! they are also trying to charge for overweight passengers!! how on earth they will work that one out, ill never know!!

just wanted to warn people, as i felt it was a major con and lots of people got caught out

x


----------



## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

merlindale said:


> hi,
> 
> lol ye so i heard, fortunately for me i didnt need to go!!! they are also trying to charge for overweight passengers!! how on earth they will work that one out, ill never know!!
> 
> ...


I've also heard that they're considering online boarding tickets only - I guess to get rid of the airport staffing costs having a desk at the terminal - don't know how on earth that's going to work. There must still be a lot of people who can't fly a computer yet! And they wouldn't be able to travel with them. All getting a bit silly I think.

Tallulah.x


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

merlindale said:


> hi,
> 
> lol ye so i heard, fortunately for me i didnt need to go!!! they are also trying to charge for overweight passengers!! how on earth they will work that one out, ill never know!!
> 
> ...


The overweight passenger thing is an interesting one and it depends what side you take on it. A few years ago I was very overweight and I'd have been insulted and horrified if I'd have been told I had to pay more for a seat, however, I'm now thinner and having sat next to some fairly helfty people, it really can be terribly uncomfortable/painful having to squeaze in next to them. And then you think, ok, so this big guy next to me must weigh far more than me and my hand lugguage put together, yet if my hand lugguage is even a pound overweight, I'm charged extra by a significant ammount hhhhhmmmm??????!!!

Jo xxx


----------



## mickybob (Dec 31, 2008)

jojo said:


> The overweight passenger thing is an interesting one and it depends what side you take on it. A few years ago I was very overweight and I'd have been insulted and horrified if I'd have been told I had to pay more for a seat, however, I'm now thinner and having sat next to some fairly helfty people, it really can be terribly uncomfortable/painful having to squeaze in next to them. And then you think, ok, so this big guy next to me must weigh far more than me and my hand lugguage put together, yet if my hand lugguage is even a pound overweight, I'm charged extra by a significant ammount hhhhhmmmm??????!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Jo, this was an idea that was put to ryanair by THEIR CUSTOMERS. They were asked to come up with ideas to allow r/a to get money in so they could drop ticket prices. If you touch both arm rests with your body, you get charged extra. 
Michael O'Leary is the bigest scumbag ( sorry Mod but he is). He bought a taxi licence plate for his car so that he could use the bus lanes in Dublin to get to the office with out delays. And boy, are there delays in Dublin. But you must admire him, befor he joint R/A, it was not far off floundering. he came in as cheif accountant and made it what it is today. I wish I had his business acumin, but not his scumbag ways.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mickybob said:


> Jo, this was an idea that was put to ryanair by THEIR CUSTOMERS. They were asked to come up with ideas to allow r/a to get money in so they could drop ticket prices. If you touch both arm rests with your body, you get charged extra.
> Michael O'Leary is the bigest scumbag ( sorry Mod but he is). He bought a taxi licence plate for his car so that he could use the bus lanes in Dublin to get to the office with out delays. And boy, are there delays in Dublin. But you must admire him, befor he joint R/A, it was not far off floundering. he came in as cheif accountant and made it what it is today. I wish I had his business acumin, but not his scumbag ways.



I guess there are two sides to the argument. Its a business and has to make money which is fair enough. and if you're clever enough to "use" their system then you should get good bargains and well below average fares, if you "mess up" then maybe you pay above average, so its down to the individual to be vigilant. I suppose Ryanair are appealing to the more seasoned traveller, who is "au fait" with on-line check ins, operation practices etc.. and then "clobbering" them if/when they slip up!!

Other airlines do this to a lesser degree and their fares are usually higher but without so many penalties??? So you take your choices. You can always go with one of the "fixed price" airlines, but thats generally more expensive to start with!

Funnily enough my OH flew with Thompson the other day, an airline he hasnt used before, (he's a Monarch/Easyjet man and flies malaga-gatwick at least twice a month)!! and it was only that he looked at the small print just before leaving and noticed that his hand lugguage was gonna be too heavy and he would incur a fine of 18€ had he have taken it, so there was a last minute rush to empty his bag!

Just my thoughts, which are things I dont normally have at this time of the morning !!

Jo xxx


----------



## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

If they are going to charge a 'fat tax' what about a reduction for children over two who have to pay the same as an adult!! I've heard that as from wednesday they are doing away with all check-in desks, so you have to get your boarding cards on-line, they take your luggage to a luggage dump area. If you don't take your boarding card they will charge you 40 quid per person to issue one! What about the oldies and the those who are not computer literate! I know my parents wouldn't cope with it.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Cazzy said:


> If they are going to charge a 'fat tax' what about a reduction for children over two who have to pay the same as an adult!! I've heard that as from wednesday they are doing away with all check-in desks, so you have to get your boarding cards on-line, they take your luggage to a luggage dump area. If you don't take your boarding card they will charge you 40 quid per person to issue one! What about the oldies and the those who are not computer literate! I know my parents wouldn't cope with it.


well I'm assuming and of course I could be wrong that the basic prices will be soooo low, that if you do have to pay any of their extras, you'll only be paying what you would if you went on a non budget airline??????????????

Jo xx


----------



## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

jojo said:


> well I'm assuming and of course I could be wrong that the basic prices will be soooo low, that if you do have to pay any of their extras, you'll only be paying what you would if you went on a non budget airline??????????????
> 
> Jo xx


Even if the flight was free with all the extras, it will still cost a bomb. Long live Easyjet!!


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Cazzy said:


> Even if the flight was free with all the extras, it will still cost a bomb. Long live Easyjet!!


maybe, altho thomas cook charge something like 300 pounds for malaga-gatwick, whereas the same flight on easyjet can be 30 pounds or less!

to a point you get what you pay for!I´m not sticking up for Ryanair BTW, sound like I am tho doesnt it . I'm just trying to see the overall picture and how air travel is changing and becoming less exotic and the services on offer are becoming more like road travel - taxi, train, coach, bus... all different standards and different price structures!!

Jo xx


----------



## mickybob (Dec 31, 2008)

In Ireland we dont have a lot of choice. R/A or Aerlingus. A/L were the only carrier here for years and charged IR£250 one way to London, but they gave you a free newspaper. It would still be like that if R/A failed as it was looking like before O'Leary came along. They have grown too big and too gready. But who else is there for us. Easyjet came in for a while then vanished. The trouble with here is that it's an Irish airline and the Irish will use it over outsiders, then have the time of their lives moaning about it afterwards. I hate flying R/A, but the choise for us is limited. But give them their due, they lowered air fares here dramaticaly. My wife can't understand why I admire O'Leary, it's just that he has taken on the big boys or A/L and BA and won.


----------



## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

mickybob said:


> In Ireland we dont have a lot of choice. R/A or Aerlingus. A/L were the only carrier here for years and charged IR£250 one way to London, but they gave you a free newspaper. It would still be like that if R/A failed as it was looking like before O'Leary came along. They have grown too big and too gready. But who else is there for us. Easyjet came in for a while then vanished. The trouble with here is that it's an Irish airline and the Irish will use it over outsiders, then have the time of their lives moaning about it afterwards. I hate flying R/A, but the choise for us is limited. But give them their due, they lowered air fares here dramaticaly. My wife can't understand why I admire O'Leary, it's just that he has taken on the big boys or A/L and BA and won.


Good afternoon and welcome to Expat Radio - we've got Angry from Ireland on the line.....


----------



## merlindale (Jun 23, 2008)

hi,

im just mad that i got cot out, and had to give them another 20 quid, for a boarding card, and i was sure i had followed everything to the last when i booked the flight. also, to add to my gripe, i was charged 3 quid for a coffee on the plane, which i couldnt drink as it was like tar!
anyway, i would rather fly with another airline now, as i think ryanair are just out to con and take when they can off passengers, and when they start charging for the loo, and put a fat tax on then im sure other passengers will body swerve them too. 

thanks again everyone for your comments and posts, and if you hear of anyone travelling with ryanair, please make them aware that they have to print their own boarding card 

diane x


----------



## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

I have probably flown well over 500 times in my life - to me it is no more an adventure than buying my pizzas in the local supermercado and no more glamourous than jumping on a bus. 

Alicante to Oslo this week - 300 euros (SAS) Alicante to Gothenburg 30 euros (Ryanair) For a family of four that is a saving of 1100 euros. You can buy a lot of coffees and newspapers for that ...... even in Scandinavia. 

You get what you pay for. It's a matter of choice.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> I have probably flown well over 500 times in my life - to me it is no more an adventure than buying my pizzas in the local supermercado and no more glamourous than jumping on a bus.
> 
> Alicante to Oslo this week - 300 euros (SAS) Alicante to Gothenburg 30 euros (Ryanair) For a family of four that is a saving of 1100 euros. You can buy a lot of coffees and newspapers for that ...... even in Scandinavia.
> 
> You get what you pay for. It's a matter of choice.


hhhmmm spooky, are we agreeing on something here??? I dont like it, its not natural!!! :yuck::lol::boxing:

:focus:

Jo xxx


----------



## mickybob (Dec 31, 2008)

Tallulah said:


> Good afternoon and welcome to Expat Radio - we've got Angry from Ireland on the line.....


No Tally, not angry, I never flew A/L and being in Ireland 14 years, well used to being ripped off.


----------



## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

jojo said:


> hhhmmm spooky, are we agreeing on something here??? I dont like it, its not natural!!! :yuck::lol::boxing:
> 
> :focus:
> 
> Jo xxx



Exactly, its like buying a pint of beer in a bar on the frontline in Puerto Banus for 11 Euros or you might fancy buying it in Torremolinos for 2 Euros 50

:focus:


----------



## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Just seen this: 

Airlines across Europe have signed up to make their websites easier for customers to understand and to improve the booking process to benefit travellers.

The agreement means that airiines including EasyJet and Ryanair now have to meet a 14-point checlist devised by the EU to create a common standard for airline customers.

The EU was responding to what it saw as misleading offers and hidden charges. Practices criciticised include automatically leaving boxes for addiitional fares ticked so that it would be added to a the price tag without the customer being aware.

Airlines were also told off for advertising a lower price than it actually costs to fly with the airline and were told not to tag on additional costs at the end of the booking process.

EU research had previously found that a third of airline websites were misleading or cheating consumers. In Europe 16 airlines met the EU standards set last year, when a review was carried out in March 2009. Bmi, Bmibaby and Virgin Atlantic were among the top performers.


----------



## mickybob (Dec 31, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> Just seen this:
> 
> Airlines across Europe have signed up to make their websites easier for customers to understand and to improve the booking process to benefit travellers.
> 
> ...


And what odds will you give me that R/A aren't the first to find a way around this???????????????????


----------



## merlindale (Jun 23, 2008)

hi,

i agree r/a will already know a scam to con unsuspecting passengers who think they have dotted all the i's and crossed all the t's, then at the airport you find your not the only mug to have missed all the hidden details, or have not read up on the terms and conditions that can go on for pages and pages, 90% of my flight were charged 20 quid, somehow seems unfair, and they can keep their beveridges on the plane to.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

British airways flight one way to London gatwick from malaga 263€ inclusive

Easyjet flight one way to london gatwick from malaga 76€ exclusive, with extras 95,98€

Ryanair flight one way to London Stansted from malaga 19.99€ exclusive, with same extras 51,03€

You see my point? taken from the same day end of May! There's room for everyone in my opinion


----------



## blues (May 15, 2009)

*help please*




jojo said:


> Hi Diane, yes I hear Ryan air are causing a few controversies at the mo. Fortunately they dont do a malaga to gatwick... well not that I've seen!! All the airlines are trying it on and its a cut throat market for them and us!!
> 
> I heard ryan air were even gonna charge people to use their toilets on board!!??
> 
> Jo xxx


hello just need help deciding the best place to go on holiday and to live ie the best place for schooling and the best place were theres a better place for work when we do move over would like the same place as we go on holiday any help will be great thanks


----------



## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Hi "blues" 

Welcome to the forum. What I suggest you do to get most help is to start a new thread and not tag on the end of this Ryanair thread. I would also suggest that you read through similar posts where you will get much useful advice. 

Os deseo mucha suerte.


----------



## mickybob (Dec 31, 2008)

*£30 each way inc tax.*



jojo said:


> Funnily enough my OH flew with Thompson the other day, an airline he hasnt used before,
> Just my thoughts, which are things I dont normally have at this time of the morning !!
> 
> Jo xxx


Jo,
Just thought you'd like to know, AerLingus have just started Gatwick to Malaga, Not sure of the price, I didn't take much notice, I think it was £20 or £30 each way.lane:


----------



## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Ryanair in the press again today - Spanish Consumers Asstn denouncing them for misleading advertising - together with Vueling, Spanair, Easyjet, Iberia


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mickybob said:


> Jo,
> Just thought you'd like to know, AerLingus have just started Gatwick to Malaga, Not sure of the price, I didn't take much notice, I think it was £20 or £30 each way.lane:



Yes i did know, they're another airline who have lots of "hidden" extras... if you wanna seat, use the door, smile at the cabin crew, breath..... it'll cost you extra!

jo xx


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> Ryanair in the press again today - Spanish Consumers Asstn denouncing them for misleading advertising - together with Vueling, Spanair, Easyjet, Iberia



well they all of those do need to be a little clearer, it is their advertising thats the con, not their prices

Jo xx


----------



## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Ryanair's Company Song 

welcome, m'sieur
sit yourself down
and meet the best
innkeeper in town
as for the rest,
all of 'em crooks
rooking their guests
and cooking the books.
seldom do you see
honest men like me
a gent of good intent
who's content to be
Master of the house
doling out the charm
ready with a handshake
and an open palm
tells a saucy tale
makes a little stir
customers appreciate a bon-viveur
glad to do a friend a favor
doesn't cost me to be nice
but nothing gets you nothing
everything has got a little price!
Master of the house
keeper of the zoo
ready to relieve 'em
of a sou or two
watering the wine
making up the weight
pickin' up their knick-knacks
when they can't see straight
everybody loves a landlord
everybody's bosom friend
i do whatever pleases
jesus! won't i bleed 'em in the end!
Thenardier & chorus
master of the house
quick to catch yer eye
never wants a passerby
to pass him by
servant to the poor
butler to the great
comforter, philosopher,
and lifelong mate!
everybody's boon companion
everybody's chaperone
Thenardier
but lock up your valises
jesus! won't i skin you to the bone!
(to another new customer)
Thenardier
enter m'sieur
lay down your load
unlace your boots
and rest from the road
(taking his bag)
This weighs a ton
travel's a curse
but here we strive
to lighten your purse
here the goose is cooked
here the fat is fried
and nothing's overlooked
till i'm satisfied...
Food beyond compare
food beyond belief
mix it in a mincer
and pretend it's beef
kidney of a horse
liver of a cat
filling up the sausages
with this and that
Residents are more than welcome
bridal suite is occupied
reasonable charges
plus some little extras on the side!
Charge 'em for the lice
extra for the mice
two percent for looking in the mirror twice
here a little slice
there a little cut
three percent for sleeping with the window shut
when it comes to fixing prices
there are a lot of tricks he knows
how it all increases
all those bits and pieces
jesus! it's amazing how it grows!
Thenardier and chorus
master of the house
quick to catch yer eye
never wants a passerby
to pass him by
servant to the poor
butler to the great
comforter, philosopher,
and lifelong mate!
everybody's boon companion
gives 'em everything he's got
Thenardier
dirty bunch of geezers
jesus! what a sorry little lot!


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SteveHall said:


> Ryanair's Company Song
> 
> welcome, m'sieur
> sit yourself down
> ...


:focus::focus::focus:

Jo xxx :focus:


----------



## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Absolutely on topic - Ryanair's charging 

Food beyond compare
food beyond belief
mix it in a mincer
and pretend it's beef
kidney of a horse
liver of a cat
filling up the sausages
with this and that
Residents are more than welcome
bridal suite is occupied
reasonable charges
plus some little extras on the side!
Charge 'em for the lice
extra for the mice
two percent for looking in the mirror twice
here a little slice
there a little cut
three percent for sleeping with the window shut
when it comes to fixing prices
there are a lot of tricks he knows
how it all increases
all those bits and pieces
jesus! it's amazing how it grows!


----------



## mayotom (Nov 8, 2008)

Having flew on most of Europes budget airlines, I have to say that Ryanair comes high on my list, as they make it quiet clear that when you buy a ticket the take you from A to B and that is the deal. you want more you pay for it.... 
having flew with them probably 60-70 times I have only had one major Delay, because BAA closed Stansted airport, 

*Easyjet* I have had delays 50% of the time, but then again the staff are that bit friendlier, 

*Monarch*, what a joke I think one in a hundred times I have been on time, as for aborted landings, rough landings, bull**** excuses and rip off's for extras(blankets etc), I got to hate flying with them, but having gold membership is great, free booze while waiting for that almost certain delay. 

*Fly Be* have been quiet a good one to me, but only used them a few times.

*Jet 2*: Scary, Flew about 10 times and had two emergency landings one in leeds one in malaga, caused by engine fires.. also had about 6 delays, 3 for more than 5 hours. 

*Glyglobespan.*just terrible, always late, cramped seats, but promise the world, and using 737's for transatlantic, just crazy, Liverpool to New york has a fuel stop in Knock,Iceland, Newfoundland then New york

Sterling, before their demise they were reasonable typical Scandic friendliness, and on time

*Vueling/Click:* new clean comfortable, free newspapers etc, budget prices

*Aer Lingus*, Probably the most comfortable (really good seating and legroom) great staff, but more expensive, nightmare at checkin always


Transavia: only used a few times but pleasant experiance


Thats just to name a few, but back to Ryanair, Everybody knows how they operate, its well pulicised in the press and on their own website, they have talked about the web check in for almost a year, its been criticised regularly in the press, virtually impossible to have missed, hell I live half way around the other side of the world and knew about it.





BTW Jojo what is your OH


----------



## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

All interesting posts - after 500+ flights I am of the same "you get what you pay for" school of thought. The day they announced Stansted to The City of Derry was the happiest day of my life - beat the days my divorce papers came through or Arsenal lost at home! Saved me probably 200 GBP per week and yet another half!!


----------



## mayotom (Nov 8, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> All interesting posts - after 500+ flights I am of the same "you get what you pay for" school of thought. The day they announced Stansted to The City of Derry was the happiest day of my life - beat the days my divorce papers came through or Arsenal lost at home! Saved me probably 200 GBP per week and yet another half!!



tis a handy route, saves that hike to Belfast eh... as long as they don't sublease out to another airline and land in the wrong airport Ryanair flight drops in at wrong airport


----------



## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Wow!! I never saw that before - great story thanks 

The only similar incident was on Stansted - Murcia many moons ago. We were flying over central Spain three hours into a flight and I judged by the time /location that something was amiss. We were clearly too far to the west but were travelling in perfect weather conditions. I was just asking a crew what was happening when we got the "bong-bing, this is your captain speaking. We will shortly be preparing for landing - sadly not at Murcia but at Granada. We have a a Ryanair member of staff on board for one of our planes laid up here." Poor guy! I thought he was going to get lynched!! He was not Mr Popular. 

So the engineer got off with his part and we hopped back to Murcia about 30 minutes away. It was almost embarassing the writs that were going to fly, the solicitors that were going to be serving papers. "The little old lady sitting next to me started shouting like a hard-line shop steward about what she would be doing when she got home (when the revolution began?) 

She turned on me and asked what I was going to do about it? "Madam, I'll just tick Granada on my map of airports I have visited and arrive 45 minutes late. Life!" 

I guess they had all had their moment of fame and calmed down by the time they had met their loved ones an hour later. If 5,000 people die in a tsuami today that is a tragedy if Ryanair does not have Pringles cheese and onion flavour that's ....well, just the way it is!


----------



## mayotom (Nov 8, 2008)

SteveHall said:


> If 5,000 people die in a tsuami today that is a tragedy if Ryanair does not have Pringles cheese and onion flavour that's ....well, just the way it is!



that's the attitude to have, you've really settled in to a relaxed life, and good for you... it would be great if everybody could be like that instead of the constant criticism like in my previous post


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mayotom said:


> BTW Jojo what is your OH


OH?? husband! He was very interested reading your summary on airlines, he doesnt use as many different ones, but is a frequesnt flyer. His personal favourite is monarch!! his most unfavourite is Fly B! Altho he tends to go by plane types as opposed to operators and likes 321s, altho they tend to have rough landings...??????????????

Jo xxx


----------



## mayotom (Nov 8, 2008)

jojo said:


> OH?? husband! He was very interested reading your summary on airlines, he doesnt use as many different ones, but is a frequesnt flyer. His personal favourite is monarch!! his most unfavourite is Fly B! Altho he tends to go by plane types as opposed to operators and likes 321s, altho they tend to have rough landings...??????????????
> 
> Jo xxx


Most will have a rough landing in Malaga if landing from the mountain side of the airport as the decent is steeper than normal, and wind turbulance is caused by the many valleys
in Gatwick there is a lot of aircraft movment thus causing lots of turbulance near the runways, as it is a single runway airport all landings and takeoffs are from same runway. monarch usually use A320/321 on that route but sometimes the 757, which is heavier and is not affected as much by the air turbulence.

Malaga is renowned as been one of those places where rough landings is almost enevitable. but never to the point where your safety is in jeopardy


.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mayotom said:


> Most will have a rough landing in Malaga if landing from the mountain side of the airport as the decent is steeper than normal, and wind turbulance is caused by the many valleys
> in Gatwick there is a lot of aircraft movment thus causing lots of turbulance near the runways, as it is a single runway airport all landings and takeoffs are from same runway. monarch usually use A320/321 on that route but sometimes the 757, which is heavier and is not affected as much by the air turbulence.
> 
> Malaga is renowned as been one of those places where rough landings is almost enevitable. but never to the point where your safety is in jeopardy
> ...


Ah, but they only use the 757 when they have a problem with the others cos they're over 25 years old, the 757 is their spare. They now only use the A321 for the gatwick runs and are notoriously shakey on landings - afectionately known in the trade as the "scarebus"!!!

My "son in law" is a pilot, two of my daughters are in the airline industry and my 14yo son is so totally obsessed with planes that I think he'll turn into one anytime soon! So unfortunately I tend to hear all the "bad" stuff from behind the scenes which is why its a rare day when I get on a plane lol :flypig:

Jo xxx


----------



## mayotom (Nov 8, 2008)

jojo said:


> My "son in law" is a pilot, two of my daughters are in the airline industry and my 14yo son is so totally obsessed with planes that I think he'll turn into one anytime soon! So unfortunately I tend to hear all the "bad" stuff from behind the scenes which is why its a rare day when I get on a plane lol :flypig:
> 
> Jo xxx




Safer than a trip up the N340


----------

