# That ol' chestnut - Medical Insurance



## In 2 bikes (Apr 18, 2013)

Hi all

Sorry, but I have looked and looked, tried and tried and now need to pester you all for an up to date answer.

I am lucky enough to retire after 30 (taxed and N.I.'d) years service to the U.K. Crown an Government at the age of 51. I intend to be an 'early retiree' with my wife and quite probably buy a modest house near the Braga, in the northern area of Portugal.

We do not intend to work and do intend to stay.

My question is:- do I need to obtain medical / health insurance for medical attention for things such as the routine popping in to a local doctors for the odd ailment upto (hopefully not though) an admission to hospital for say a broken leg?

We are both in good health and have no pre-existing conditions other than the wife's infrequent need for an asthma inhaler.

I have seen so many threads stating Portugal has an NHS style system whereby it's free to United Kingdom expats but not to other E.U. nationals.

I've also seen threads and web pages stating retiring (early) to Portugal requires an insurance policy just like France would for example.

I am aware that the S1 form from the DWP Newcastle is available for up to two years, but I have spoken to them and they have stated that the UK Government is probably going to withdraw all S1 cover as of 31st March 2014.

Just as a side bar of info, I am informed by my pay masters that a Government pension can only be taxed in the U.K. by law which falls in line with the dual tax agreement.....if this makes any difference to your answers.

Thanks so much in advance

Mark 'n Claire


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

You're gonna get all kinds of answers because it seems to vary from area to area & person to person but FWIW, my wife & I are both Brits, in our late 50s, in receipt of UK based private pensions but obviously not state pensions, registered for tax in the UK & we get more or less free NHS treatment here.

The more or less means we pay €5 to see a doctor & a small amount for prescriptions.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I'll add that perhaps one way to do it is to bring your EHIC cards with you & on arrival, get your residencia & then register with the social security office & docs etc & then see what they offer you.

If they tell you no, then look for insurance.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Portugal's NHS system is Resident based and available to any* EU citizen* who are Resident at the *same cost* and service as a Portuguese National.
Different rules apply to Non EU Citizen 

You can temporarily use your UK EHIC for treatment *until* the point you register your Residence *from that time forwards it is invalid* until you are of official UK retirement age when the UK will supply your EHIC card for use within EU* not *Portugal.
Once registered as a Resident, Social Security and NHS it's important to get a EHIC card from Portugal as you would need it for trips in EU and *UK *

The correct procedure for registering is Social Security then at your local Centre de Saude, it should be a formality and easy but as TM says exactly what happens depends very much on your area Social Security and Health Center, yes S1 is being withdrawn but it will must be replaced with something else
This is current DWP advice, URL's being blocked try searching
DWP Living but not working in another EEA country 


Social Security is in my experience has not been an issue for people to register with as if your not working or earning then your not reguired to pay a contribution, obviously easier if you have a S1 or E106 because it's a recognized form. Recent upgrades to NHS service systems reguire a Social Security number to be entitled to the discounted fees for medical and prescriptions but it's not nationwide yet. 

Because you have a "Crown" pension that must be UK taxed this doesn't affect any registration with Social Security or NHS but would still reguire declaring each year plus tax paid, when your State Pension kicks in then that portion still requires declaring but you can select the most beneficial country to be taxed in.


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## notlongnow (May 21, 2009)

Once you have a social security number, registering at a state surgery is easy. Getting SS number if you're not employed or self employed if you catch them on a bad day may be the sticking point. Speaking VERY generally, people in the Algarve usually get given a harder time on this than those elsewhere.

Regardless of it you get state cover, you may wish to incorporate an element of private care. For example, if we need a general GP visit we usually pay €40 to go to local private clinic as we get a fluent English doctor and don't have to wait. This isn't a question of failing to integrate (my wife is dealing with her entire pregnancy using the state system) but more that we lose more than the cost of the appointment in earnings if we have to wait for hours at the Centro do Saude (which is quite often).

We also have a fairly basic EU wide private policy for emergencies, which is handy when we are elsewhere in Europe too and (at our age) not that expensive.


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## In 2 bikes (Apr 18, 2013)

Thank you very much guys. You have all made perfect sense and we are truly grateful for your time in answering.

It's really encouraging to hear how things work in Portugal, whilst at the same time accepting there are a few little hurdles to deal with, but then it can't be any where near as big a pain in the neck as when dealing with the French red tape.

Only a few weeks to go now and it'll just be a matter of choosing a house....Any pitfalls to watch out for ?


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Use a good lawyer before you part with a cent to any estate agents etc is the best advice and then he/she will check everything for you. 

The bureaucracy here is a bit of a PITA but although often slow, it does usually work as it's meant to.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

It's a buyers market don't be pushed, lots of interesting places around Braga but also easy to find yourself a bit isolated, so do think what'll happen if I can't drive or there's no transport. Yet it's very easy to be in very close proximity to a major city yet be in the country.

Don't be tempted to do any under the counter deals the pitfalls are all yours not seller.

Could be a minor or major issue for but if you want or hope to get UK TV you need clear line of site to 28.2SE as far as I know Braga area still receiving BBC after the switchover

And one of the major pluses in Portugal for UK Nationals unlike France you can leave your estate as you can under UK Law not Portuguese


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## BlackBeardie (Feb 22, 2012)

travelling-man said:


> Use a good lawyer before you part with a cent to any estate agents etc is the best advice and then he/she will check everything for you.
> 
> The bureaucracy here is a bit of a PITA but although often slow, it does usually work as it's meant to.


And using a good solicitor is no guarantee either. I used a highly recommended solicitor and they still missed some vital things (in my case existence of mains water supply to the property) when checking that everything regarding the property was as advertised. So I suggest double checking every detail yourself if you are able to.


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## BlackBeardie (Feb 22, 2012)

Thank you canoe man. I'll probably have more questions regarding this soon.


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## In 2 bikes (Apr 18, 2013)

*inheritance*

It's all encouraging stuff, thanks again, but I have to ask:- *Canoeman* you touched on the the inheritance thing. This is also a subject close to the heart as I fully intend to let Mrs In 2 bikes have the lot if I popped it but only if she's a good girl.

The problem I had with France was the enforced heirship thing where the children ( of any age ) get an equal share of the house with the wife after my death at the point she wants to sell it. (The notaire deals with it)

I know that there is a small legal loophole to combat this in France and that there is also an EU Directive coming into force in July 2015 to allow all expats the same 'deceased's will' rights as in there home country, but is it too good to be true that this already exists in Portugal?

Mark


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

The EU directive is *only* at the moment a discussion paper I have yet not seen any timescale when this might become a Directive or Law.

For *NON* Portuguese the advantage *NOW* is that Portuguese Law is extremely clear and says Portugal recognizes *your country of Birth as the country that takes precedence in Succession Law*, so for UK Nationals or any nationality *providing your Portuguese Will is legal in UK or your country of birth* then it is legal here so you can leave your estate exactly how you want or how your country stipulates.

Portugal only wants to know of your Portuguese assets in your Will, you would need a separate Will if you have assets in UK etc 

You are still subject to Portuguese Law on Inheritance Tax but again this has certain advantages,
a. Inheritance Tax was abolished and replaced with Stamp Duty (IS)
b. Your Spouse, parents and direct children inherit majority of assets IS free 
a couple of further things to bear in mind
Trusts are not recognized in Portuguese Law avoid you cannot alter Wills with codicils, alteations requires a new Will 
Inheritors are responsible for any IS not the estate


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## In 2 bikes (Apr 18, 2013)

canoeman said:


> The EU directive is *only* at the moment a discussion paper I have yet not seen any timescale when this might become a Directive or Law.
> 
> For *NON* Portuguese the advantage *NOW* is that Portuguese Law is extremely clear and says Portugal recognizes *your country of Birth as the country that takes precedence in Succession Law*, so for UK Nationals or any nationality *providing your Portuguese Will is legal in UK or your country of birth* then it is legal here so you can leave your estate exactly how you want or how your country stipulates.
> 
> ...


 
*You really are the bringer of good tidings !! * 

Just for reference, the below is a cut-and-paste from Blevins and Franks Jan 2014 and talks about French succession law which I think relates to a lot of Europe too.
_
An update from Blevins and Franks - International Welath and Tax Cosultants. 

French succession law applies to the worldwide assets of French residents (with the exception of non-French real estate), and to French real estate belonging to non-residents of France, even if held in a French company.

Under French law, any children of the deceased, whether from within the current marriage or outside that marriage, are ‘reserved heirs’, who are entitled to up to 75% of the deceased’s estate, even in preference to the current spouse. Your Will (in whichever country it might have been written) will currently be ignored if it attempts to override these reserved heir rights. One child is automatically entitled to 50% of the deceased parent’s estate, two children receive two thirds of the estate in equal shares (i.e. a third each), and three or more children are entitled to 75% of the estate on death, to be divided between them in equal shares. A current spouse is only entitled to a maximum of 25% of the estate.

This can be a big problem for people who have children of an earlier marriage or relationship, and even for those who do not, who want the spouse to inherit their assets on their death rather than the children.

A new EU Regulation,, which differs from a Directive, is due to come into force from 17th August 2015 which will allow an individual to elect, via his Will, for the laws of his country of nationality to apply. This will be a welcome development for UK nationals living in France who wish to avoid French succession laws._


Thanks

Mark 'n Claire


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

France and most of Europe follow Roman Law, Portugal is very similar, the importance for us is Portugal has been a step ahead of the rest of EU all a plus for us.
The last I read said that new Regulation won't come into force until and will apply to anyone dying on or after August 12 2015 UK, Ireland and Denmark have opted out

But I will say it is important to make a Portuguese Will for any Portuguese assets *whether you are a Resident or NON Resident*, those that say oh it's ok I've a UK Will that covers me are right and wrong, right in that it does but wrong in *NOT* understanding *that for Will to be legal in Portugal it MUST FIRST BE PROBATED IN UK* it adds very considerably to time and cost and finding a Portuguese or English Solicitor that understands all this.


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