# UK Inheritance



## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Do you need to inform Spanish authorities of the death of a family member who doesn't live in Spain only in case of a inheritance?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I should explain: if a grandparent died and left an inheritance but probate wasn't completed until a year after death were you meant to have informed authorities about the death if you were not aware of the inheritance?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kaipa said:


> I should explain: if a grandparent died and left an inheritance but probate wasn't completed until a year after death were you meant to have informed authorities about the death if you were not aware of the inheritance?


Only if you had a crystal ball?

Joking aside, why would you inform the Spanish authorities of the death of a family member unless there were tax implications.

Once you know there are, then of course you do.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

xabiaxica said:


> Only if you had a crystal ball?
> 
> Joking aside, why would you inform the Spanish authorities of the death of a family member unless there were tax implications.
> 
> Once you know there are, then of course you do.


That is what I thought X but I thought that that you had to inform the authorities within 6 months of death of a relative which I assume is only because of inheritance not because of anything else if person is not connected to spain?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

kaipa said:


> That is what I thought X but I thought that that you had to inform the authorities within 6 months of death of a relative which I assume is only because of inheritance not because of anything else if person is not connected to spain?




If you've got an inheritance to declare, you are supposed to do this using the Modelo 650 form within six months of the death. There is no requirement to inform the authorities of a death otherwise.

If you genuinely didn't know you were going to inherit something until a year later, I guess they'd waive that rule. Under Spanish law spouses and children inherit automatically, so it's not an issue.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

So does the 650 just amount to a declaration that you expect to inherit or does it require actually numbers? In UK probate can often take over 6 months to be done, sometimes even a year so you wont know the amount until quite a bit later


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

kaipa said:


> So does the 650 just amount to a declaration that you expect to inherit or does it require actually numbers? In UK probate can often take over 6 months to be done, sometimes even a year so you wont know the amount until quite a bit later


It requires numbers, but they can be estimated. I had to get my mother’s house valued to obtain a figure, even though we weren’t selling it. The form has to be accompanied by copies of the will, probate, transfer of title deeds and death certificate. You might be advised to check with the Agencia Tributaria about delays. Or it might actually be on their information page already.
https://www.agenciatributaria.gob.es/AEAT.sede/en_gb/procedimientoini/G702.shtml


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> > So does the 650 just amount to a declaration that you expect to inherit or does it require actually numbers? In UK probate can often take over 6 months to be done, sometimes even a year so you wont know the amount until quite a bit later
> ...


I take it all the documents need to be translated? And did you have to pay tax on the property despite not selling it? That's one of my potential problems is whereas in uk IHT has a generous allowance which would cover the house valuation whereas in Spain IHT kicks in pretty much immediately.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

kaipa said:


> I take it all the documents need to be translated? And did you have to pay tax on the property despite not selling it? That's one of my potential problems is whereas in uk IHT has a generous allowance which would cover the house valuation whereas in Spain IHT kicks in pretty much immediately.


No translation was needed. I didn’t have to pay any tax because my share was well below the threshold, which was 250,000€ at the time.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> > I take it all the documents need to be translated? And did you have to pay tax on the property despite not selling it? That's one of my potential problems is whereas in uk IHT has a generous allowance which would cover the house valuation whereas in Spain IHT kicks in pretty much immediately.
> ...


That seems a high threshold.I was under the impression that it was only around 15.000 euros. ( I know it is dependent on region)


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

kaipa said:


> That seems a high threshold.I was under the impression that it was only around 15.000 euros. ( I know it is dependent on region)


I don't know what region you are in (your current location is given as Scotland) but in Andalucia it went up from €250,000 to €1 million after the last election (2019). That's for inheritance within the family - spouses, children, grandchildren etc. I don't know what it is for people who aren't related.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I am in Alicante so Valencia. Any idea approx threshold there?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

kaipa said:


> I am in Alicante so Valencia. Any idea approx threshold there?


Try Google!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> I don't know what region you are in (your current location is given as Scotland) but in Andalucia it went up from €250,000 to €1 million after the last election (2019). That's for inheritance within the family - spouses, children, grandchildren etc. I don't know what it is for people who aren't related.


It doesn't apply to people who are more distantly related - siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins - but only to spouses and children.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I think A knows that . That's why he mentions other people


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

kaipa said:


> I think A knows that . That's why he mentions other people


Firstly, A is a she. Secondly, she mentions the higher allowances in Andalucia apply "within the family" - they do not, as I said, apply to relatives other than those in Group 1 or 2.

https://www.blevinsfranks.com/news/article/spanish-succession-tax-andalucia


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> Firstly, A is a she. Secondly, she mentions the higher allowances in Andalucia apply "within the family" - they do not, as I said, apply to relatives other than those in Group 1 or 2.
> 
> https://www.blevinsfranks.com/news/article/spanish-succession-tax-andalucia


Kaipa mentioned earlier that the inheritance was from a grandparent, i.e. close family.

And yes, I am a she, otherwise I would be Alcalaino not Alcalaina!


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I wrote A as a simplification. Is A gender specific? Why the aggressiveness?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Ok My wrong I wrote He. Sorry A and L


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Anyway getting back to my point. Are there huge differences in IHT thresholds within regions. I mean, a million seems very high in Andulacia whereas it seems to be 150.000 in Valencia although I am not sure as I cant work out all the different rules and categories in Spanish


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

kaipa said:


> Anyway getting back to my point. Are there huge differences in IHT thresholds within regions. I mean, a million seems very high in Andulacia whereas it seems to be 150.000 in Valencia although I am not sure as I cant work out all the different rules and categories in Spanish


Yes, there are. There is information available in English on the allowances applicable in the Valencia region, for example:-

https://www.daviessolicitors.com/guideline-inheritance-tax-valencia-region/


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> > Anyway getting back to my point. Are there huge differences in IHT thresholds within regions. I mean, a million seems very high in Andulacia whereas it seems to be 150.000 in Valencia although I am not sure as I cant work out all the different rules and categories in Spanish
> ...


Thanks for that. Easier in English. Wow. It's so bloody complicated. Relationship to deceased. Sliding scale. Multiply. Depend on existing wealth. Live in same property as deceased. Then after all that if close relative 75% overall reduction on final amount!!! Cant tell how it compares to UK? Is it good or bad?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

kaipa said:


> Anyway getting back to my point. Are there huge differences in IHT thresholds within regions. I mean, a million seems very high in Andulacia whereas it seems to be 150.000 in Valencia although I am not sure as I cant work out all the different rules and categories in Spanish


IHT is a highly political issue. The increase to a million was a reward to all the rich barstewards who voted for the PP/Vox and put a (hopefully temporary) halt to the PSOE's unbroken rule since the Junta de Andalucia was created.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> > Anyway getting back to my point. Are there huge differences in IHT thresholds within regions. I mean, a million seems very high in Andulacia whereas it seems to be 150.000 in Valencia although I am not sure as I cant work out all the different rules and categories in Spanish
> ...


Ahhh I see. It does seem so strange. I am trying to determine how it all compares to UK. I see that lots of changes have been made very recently and presumably could change again


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

kaipa said:


> Ahhh I see. It does seem so strange. I am trying to determine how it all compares to UK. I see that lots of changes have been made very recently and presumably could change again


UK inheritance tax explained:-

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/f...ryone is allowed to,won't pay inheritance tax.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> > Ahhh I see. It does seem so strange. I am trying to determine how it all compares to UK. I see that lots of changes have been made very recently and presumably could change again
> ...


Thanks. The uk tax is simpler to understand given that we have a fixed threshold. The Spanish one is much harder hence the problem comparing the two


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

kaipa said:


> Thanks. The uk tax is simpler to understand given that we have a fixed threshold. The Spanish one is much harder hence the problem comparing the two


If there is one issue that could drive me back to live in the UK in later life, this would be it. If my husband should die before me, I have no children to leave my estate to, and it seems very unfair that my brother, who would inherit as my closest relative, would have to pay so much in Spanish IHT because of my decision to live here, whereas if I were in the UK he (or rather my estate) would pay nothing. I could not even leave my estate to my stepchildren as they don't count under the Andalucian IHT rules.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Yes exactly. In the UK anyone can be a beneficiary of your estate without discrimination but as you say in spain, if you have no immediate family it appears the state bags pretty much all of it and that seems rather harsh.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> If there is one issue that could drive me back to live in the UK in later life, this would be it. If my husband should die before me, I have no children to leave my estate to, and it seems very unfair that my brother, who would inherit as my closest relative, would have to pay so much in Spanish IHT because of my decision to live here, whereas if I were in the UK he (or rather my estate) would pay nothing. I could not even leave my estate to my stepchildren as they don't count under the Andalucian IHT rules.


Well, I'm in the same position but my brother would still be a lot better off than he would have been otherwise! I'm surprised that stepchildren aren't counted though. That's something which needs rectifying.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> Well, I'm in the same position but my brother would still be a lot better off than he would have been otherwise! I'm surprised that stepchildren aren't counted though. That's something which needs rectifying.


That's true, but when I see the hassle people based in the UK have had to go through when left property in Spain, how long it takes and how expensive it is, not just in IHT (if not a direct descendant) but legal costs as it's really not possible for someone in that position to administer an estate themselves as they could do with probate in the UK, and also plus valia if the Ayuntamiento isn't one of those which has exempted inherited property from paying it, then I really would not want to put my brother through it. And that's before they can even begin to think about selling it.

He's had enough to do handling our late Aunt's estate, when I should have been the executor but he kindly agreed to step in because it wasn't really practical for me to do it from here. Again, my decision to live here put an extra burden on him and I do feel bad about that.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I am a bit new to this but how does it work if in the uk the estate is taxed before beneficiaries recieve monies and then that money is subject to further taxes in Spain?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

kaipa said:


> I am a bit new to this but how does it work if in the uk the estate is taxed before beneficiaries recieve monies and then that money is subject to further taxes in Spain?


Not got a clue -nobody I know had an estate worth more than the IHT threshold in the UK (my family are all in the North so the property values are nowhere near as high).


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

For example if the estate was 1 million.If part of the estate was the main residence of deceased then £500 000 would be tax free. The other 500 000 would have 40 % tax. So that means £800 000 would go to beneficiaries. If there were 2 beneficiaries then each gets 400 000. If one lives in spain then is that 400.000 subject to spanish IHT? Or can it be offset by uk tax?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

kaipa said:


> Yes exactly. In the UK anyone can be a beneficiary of your estate without discrimination but as you say in spain, if you have no immediate family it appears the state bags pretty much all of it and that seems rather harsh.


Well it is better in the UK, but it's not quite true to say it's applied equally - the newish exemption from IHT of the family home (up to 1 million, I believe) only applies if the beneficiary is a spouse, chlld or other direct ascendant/descendant, so people without immediate family are still disadvantaged, or rather their heirs are.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> That's true, but when I see the hassle people based in the UK have had to go through when left property in Spain, how long it takes and how expensive it is, not just in IHT (if not a direct descendant) but legal costs as it's really not possible for someone in that position to administer an estate themselves as they could do with probate in the UK, and also plus valia if the Ayuntamiento isn't one of those which has exempted inherited property from paying it, then I really would not want to put my brother through it. And that's before they can even begin to think about selling it.


Is it really that bad? I lost a friend here whose children in the UK inherited his property and we just let the notary handle it all (I acted as an official interpreter). I don't know how much he charged but certainly no more than a few hundred euros. The biggest hassle was waiting for the tanatorio to issue the death certificate, which they wouldn't do till they'd been paid and without which nothing could proceed. A hasty loan had to be organised ...


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> Is it really that bad? I lost a friend here whose children in the UK inherited his property and we just let the notary handle it all (I acted as an official interpreter). I don't know how much he charged but certainly no more than a few hundred euros. The biggest hassle was waiting for the tanatorio to issue the death certificate, which they wouldn't do till they'd been paid and without which nothing could proceed. A hasty loan had to be organised ...


I was thinking of the sister of a friend of ours who inherited his property here (and his estate in the UK, he wasn't resident in Spain). It took over a year for the IHT issue to be dealt with and the escritura de herencia to be issued so that the property could be sold. The property had been bought for €90k and the IHT was over €20k and then there was plus valia to be paid on top of that, and the legal fees. Altogether I think it cost her around €25k. I know the plus valia when I sold my old house was over €4k. She had to get an NIE and open a Spanish bank account, which would be a pretty alien concept to someone UK based just to inherit a property, and a non resident bank account comes with not inconsiderable bank charges.

Then you come to the complications of selling it, and as we all know sometimes it can take years to sell a property here, with utility standing charges and IBI to be paid all the while, estate agent's commission is much higher than it is in the UK and if the property isn't sold within a year there would be plus valia to pay again.

Luckily she was able to raise the money to pay the Spanish IHT, etc. within 6 months of her brother's death, because the UK probate had gone through and she had access to those funds. 

All in all I think it's a pretty costly affair especially for beneficiaries who don't qualify for the higher IHT allowances, as mine would not.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I agree a bit with Lynn. When my ex had to deal with her mother's flat it took nearly 5 years. 4 years as no testament could be traced so had to the 4 year period. Then the property had to be split 3 ways with people who had to get nIEs including their wives! Then the notary , then the lawyer, plus valiant etc In the end each got 12,000 euros .All money had to deposited in a spanish account. After 3 months account was blocked. Then after money was withdrawn bank kept charging. Cant close account without all 3 persons coming to Spain to do it in person. Total nightmare.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I forgot to add that our friend's sister did eventually sell the house, for less than he had paid for it originally. Of course, as she was a non-resident seller, she was subject to the 3% Capital Gains Tax retention. She instructed a gestor to claim a refund of that for her, and it was a further 15 months before she got the money back. She also had to pay a second tranche of plus valia when she sold, after having paid it when she inherited the property. A refund of that was also claimed as she had sold at a loss, but that has never been forthcoming.

I really would prefer not to have to potentially subject my brother to all of that.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

kaipa said:


> For example if the estate was 1 million.If part of the estate was the main residence of deceased then £500 000 would be tax free. The other 500 000 would have 40 % tax. So that means £800 000 would go to beneficiaries. If there were 2 beneficiaries then each gets 400 000. If one lives in spain then is that 400.000 subject to spanish IHT? Or can it be offset by uk tax?


As far as I am aware....

In the UK _the estate_ is taxed and then in Spain _the inheritor_ is taxed. 

There is no offset.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

There has been a few articles in the Spanish press re. Spanish officially turning down their inheritance. 
Myself and 5 cousins inherited in an Aunts will which included a Villa in Spain. Was a decade ago Very complicated, 2 were Spanish, rest British. Property was sensibly worth around 525,000, authoriities said £698,580:roll eyes: left it in the hands of a Spanish lawyer as none of us wanted to pay out of our pockets. He bought the villa and paid the tax due before selling. We got the grand sum of around 21,000 each. Gain for the lawyer and the government.


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## fortrose52 (Nov 29, 2018)

That is unbelievably awful


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## neil_h (Oct 15, 2020)

Alcalaina said:


> If you've got an inheritance to declare, you are supposed to do this using the Modelo 650 form within six months of the death. There is no requirement to inform the authorities of a death otherwise.
> 
> If you genuinely didn't know you were going to inherit something until a year later, I guess they'd waive that rule. Under Spanish law spouses and children inherit automatically, so it's not an issue.


Hello! About form 650. I live in Catalunya. I have inherited some money from my grandmothers along with 7 other relatives. . I am the only resident in Spain, everyone else on the will, and my grandmother who passed away, live(ed) in the UK.
While investigating how the pay the tax, I have also seen the mention of form 660 in relation to inheritance tax. I am a bit confused about the difference between these two forms (660 and 650).
Some of the information they ask in the form 660 forn seems to overlap with 650, but 660 asks for information about the other successors of the will. 

Have you come across the form 660? I don't know if it's necessary for me to complete this, or just the 650?

Any help appreciated!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

neil_h said:


> Hello! About form 650. I live in Catalunya. I have inherited some money from my grandmothers along with 7 other relatives. . I am the only resident in Spain, everyone else on the will, and my grandmother who passed away, live(ed) in the UK.
> While investigating how the pay the tax, I have also seen the mention of form 660 in relation to inheritance tax. I am a bit confused about the difference between these two forms (660 and 650).
> Some of the information they ask in the form 660 forn seems to overlap with 650, but 660 asks for information about the other successors of the will.
> 
> ...


I don`t know what the difference is, but a lawyer did mine and used Modelo 650 so that should be the same for you, as it's the same situation.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

I have a 'addendum' to my fathers will that states 'upon Mr xxx death should his son Barrie legally resident in Spain, then he relinquishes all rights to his fathers estate and wishes for the aforementioned estate to be passed directly to his children as a 50% split' 
My dad also had to mention this as well (was all done through his solicitor.)

Just means it goes straight to my kids and there will be no tax to pay, as my father is a UK resident, so Uk inheritance trumps Spanish. (obviously if my children want to be nice to their dad they will buy me some nice things) 

As to tax here, Valencia has a 100k tax free level for inheritance after that it gets expensive.


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## neil_h (Oct 15, 2020)

Alcalaina said:


> I don`t know what the difference is, but a lawyer did mine and used Modelo 650 so that should be the same for you, as it's the same situation.


Okay thanks Alcalaina, maybe I will go down the lawyer route as I want to get this done right. Just so I have an idea of if I cam getting value for money, is there a ball park price for this kind of service?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

neil_h said:


> Okay thanks Alcalaina, maybe I will go down the lawyer route as I want to get this done right. Just so I have an idea of if I cam getting value for money, is there a ball park price for this kind of service?


Now I know how simple it is I wish I hadn’t bothered with a lawyer! He was English-speaking (they always charge more) and it cost €200. My local gestor would have done it for around €20.


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