# Move to Spain



## Stuart M (Oct 3, 2014)

I am very interested in moving to Spain, Benalmadena area, I have retired early at 55 and have a private pension of £12,000 a year, could any of you offer me advice as to whether I can live on this or not, ideally I would be looking at a 1 bed apartment to rent long term, I do not have extravagant tastes so would not be joining the bar culture etc, all I want is a quiet life after many years in the Police Force and to live a simple life so any advice would be most welcome.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Hi and welcome to the forum. It is doable just but I think Benalmadena is expensive so most of your pension would be for rent and utilities. Maybe think of the other side of Malaga (East) which can be much cheaper.


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## Stuart M (Oct 3, 2014)

Hi Thrax
Thanks for your helpful advice


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I think you'd be a bit stretched. A decent apartment has got to set you back 500 to 600 euros minimum then on top of that I would have thought a monthly minimum of 150 euros for utilities possibly covering phone and internet.
I don't know what public transport is like in the Benalmadena area but if you are going to use a car you have to add in costs of tax, fuel, insurance, repairs, ITV test...could be another 100 euros a month all told.
At current exchange rates your pension if net should bring you around 1250 euros a month. That should leave enough to feed and clothe yourself but you will have to fund your own medical insurance for the next ten years until you qualify for 'free' treatment.
Personally I think it's a bit of a tight budget. Exchange rates can vary dramatically and if you have no other income a drop in the £ could make a dent in your income.
Having said that, though, many people in Spain live on much less than 1250 euros a month and the way things are going in the eurozone the £ should be fairly strong in the foreseeable future.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

I live in Benalmadena Costa & yes it can be bloomin expensive! I am here with 2 teenage kids at private school! BUT it can also been done on a shoestring if that tickles your fancy. On my wanders looking in estate agent windows I have seen studio apts for rent at 250 euros per month. Public transport is excellent and dirt cheap, I don't drive and get buses everywhere; Malaga to Marbella and everywhere in between! I find taxis expensive after Asia but I think they are comparable to the UK. Sanitas health ins is reasonable we pay 137 euros per month for myself and the 2 kids and that includes limited dental. Without the kids I could live on €1250 per month here, if I had to!


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## Stuart M (Oct 3, 2014)

Many thanks for your advice, I will not be driving so that will not count, I also have savings so could supplement with that but was just interested on whether I could do it on the pension alone


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## Stuart M (Oct 3, 2014)

Thankyou Angil
I have ex pat friends in Benalmadena that state I can do it without touching my savings, but was just interested for other comments


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Stuart, the Canary Islands are cheaper than the Iberian part of Spain, our VAT is 7%, we do not have nor need heating or air-conditioning, so no bills. Property rents at between 200 to 500€ a month outside the tourist areas, so yes your pension would be more than adequate here. Food for thought perhaps?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

My thoughts would be that when one retires one should expect an 'upgrade' in life, after working for thirty years or so.
That was certainly our view.
Yes, you can find cheap apartments. Yes, you can live on a shoestring.
After all your years of carrying out an onerous and responsible public service job, is that what you want for your retirement?
In Spain as anywhere, there is a reason why things are cheap.
Hepa may be right. Look elsewhere.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> My thoughts would be that when one retires one should expect an 'upgrade' in life, after working for thirty years or so.
> That was certainly our view.
> Yes, you can find cheap apartments. Yes, you can live on a shoestring.
> After all your years of carrying out an onerous and responsible public service job, is that what you want for your retirement?
> ...



'Upgrading' is all about a persons circumstance & perspective! Having lived in 5 star condos in very modern bustling cities etc etc. for 3/4 of our married life, me and hubby are looking forward to a quiet cheap existence on our own terms at retirement (I have been told the little blighters grow up, leave home and stop costing so flippin much eventually!?). 
A hut on a Thai beach would do us! But common sense will, I am sure, prevail & we will remain somewhere like Spain or thereabouts! Maybe in a caravan! Who knows!
I think Benalmadena is as good a choice as any. The sun is free for a kick off. A cheapy coffee on the prom after 30 years of a cup of tea looking out of a rain soaked office window (or whatever) could surely be described as an upgrade?! 
So now 'we' are knocking even those who don't need work to live here? Just because it would have to be done on the cheap? (cheaper than 'you' think it should be?).


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## ABERAFON (Aug 15, 2014)

I think you could live on a £1000 a month in Spain if you lived very simply, but there would be very little left over for any luxuries so I suppose it depends what you want to do whilst living there. Your personal circumstances dictate many things as well, for instance if you are living in Spain you are liable for tax on world wide assets so if you have a home and saving in the UK you may have some tax to pay, also on an income of £1000 I suspect you will have to pay some income tax. There are many contributors on here that can advise on these issues much better than me, but if it is what you want go for it, having independent means you can always go back to the UK or move to another country if it does not work out but one thing is for sure you can't live easily, if at all, in the UK on that money if you have savings and can't get benefits to supplement it. Good luck in your endeavour


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I think the number of people who can afford to "upgrade" in retirement must be very few. Almost everybody, surely, must have less income in retirement than they did when there was a salary coming in.

When I chose to give up my job, and "retire" 10 years early, I did so in the full knowledge that I wouldn't be able to spend as much on long haul holidays, clothes, beauty treatments, chucking out stuff for the house that was perfectly usable but I was bored with it, and so on, as I had been used to. As long as there was enough to pay the bills and a bit over for enjoyment (plus an emergency fund for those unforeseen things that always crop up), that was fine.

I live in a house here that is bigger than the one I had in the UK, but was cheaper to buy. My bills are lower, and set to get lower still when we no longer have to pay for private health insurance. I haven't missed that spending on "nice to haves" much at all, really, and came to the conclusion that I was only spending most of it in an effort to compensate for being miserable - retail therapy.

If the OP thinks he will be happy with a simpler, but less stressful life, he may well be right. I agree there are places other than Benalmadena where a 1 bed apartment could be rented more cheaply, leaving him with more to spend on other things. Nerja, for example - there seem to be lots available for long term rent at around €400 per month and it's a nice town, busy all year round, with a large expat population and many clubs and activities which might help a single person get to know people. The public transport there is decent, he could certainly manage without a car.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Stuart M said:


> I am very interested in moving to Spain, Benalmadena area, I have retired early at 55 and have a private pension of £12,000 a year, could any of you offer me advice as to whether I can live on this or not, ideally I would be looking at a 1 bed apartment to rent long term, I do not have extravagant tastes so would not be joining the bar culture etc, all I want is a quiet life after many years in the Police Force and to live a simple life so any advice would be most welcome.


Hi Stuart, I've just looked on my favourite property website Fotocasa and there seem to be plenty of one-bed flats for less than €400 a month in and around Benalmádena. 

Alquiler de Pisos en Benalmádena | FOTOCASA.ES

Presumably you want to be in that area because you have friends there? If you were to go inland a bit, or further east, prices will be cheaper.

As well as rent you will have to factor in health insurance, because you won't be entitled to free healthcare until you get your UK state pension. It is much cheaper than in the UK though.

Internet and electricity are more expensive than the UK, but if you are the hardy type and don't turn the heating up in winter (oh yes it does get cold here!!) you shouldn't spend much more than €100 a month on utilities.

Other than that, you can spend as little or as much as you like on food and entertainment. The best things in life are free.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Another point to take note of is that the OP's police pension will be index linked (and the rate of inflation has been lower in Spain than in the UK for a while now) so should not lose value, and in due course he should receive a state pension from the UK as well, so his income in later life will be more than it is now.

That's the basis on which I calculated whether we could afford to sell up and come to live here, that after xxx years our income would go up by xxx, and after xxx more years it would go up again. So far so good, it's working!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> I think the number of people who can afford to "upgrade" in retirement must be very few. Almost everybody, surely, must have less income in retirement than they did when there was a salary coming in.
> 
> When I chose to give up my job, and "retire" 10 years early, I did so in the full knowledge that I wouldn't be able to spend as much on long haul holidays, clothes, beauty treatments, chucking out stuff for the house that was perfectly usable but I was bored with it, and so on, as I had been used to. As long as there was enough to pay the bills and a bit over for enjoyment (plus an emergency fund for those unforeseen things that always crop up), that was fine.
> 
> ...


We were able to 'upgrade' because we sold our properties and rented once we'd left the UK. After over seventy years of working between us, we thought we deserved to be able to live in a large house with pool, gardener, definitely an upgrade as we didn't live quite like that in the UK. Having someone else other than myself mowing our lawns etc. is definitely an upgrade!

Many retired people are as well if not better off than when they were working. If your mortgage is paid off and you have an adequate pension you may well have more disposable income than before. Not having to travel to work each day, not having to keep up a working wardrobe...if you live outside London and commute to work your savings could be considerable.

Then there is the upgrade of not having to work, of being able to dispose of your time as you see fit, not at someone else's beck and call. 

The most important aspect of retiring wherever you choose to live is to choose an affordable lifestyle. That means not just living within a tight budget but having a surplus for 'emergencies'.

Apart from our house which takes up a lot of our outgoings in terms of rent, utilities, garden maintenance, we don't spend much. In fact I think we should spend a bit more as I don't want to die with money in the bank. We spend a lot on our dogs and on feeding various feral cats around the village. As we get more decrepit, we'll downsize to a smaller property. 

Many retired people these days have an income and lifestyle that is considerably above that of many young working people and certainly beyond the unemployed. Of course there are poorer pensioners but the ConDem Government is well aware that much of its support comes from the older demographic, whatever their income and they will shrewdly favour this group as much as they dare. Hence no tampering with the WFA, keeping universal benefits, the modest but significant pension measures.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina;5446810
. The best things in life are free. :)[/QUOTE said:


> But can only be truly enjoyed if you are economically secure.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Lynn R said:


> I think the number of people who can afford to "upgrade" in retirement must be very few. Almost everybody, surely, must have less income in retirement than they did when there was a salary coming in.
> 
> .
> .


Another reason why some retired people might be more financially secure than working people is that over the past seven years wages have been lower than inflation and many people have part-time or zero hours jobs. 

Most assets have maintained if not in some cases increased their value over that period. It's part of the reason for so much inequality....

I read an interesting e-book from Guardian Shorts yesterday which blamed the crisis partly on the baby-boomers many of whom have good index-linked pension incomes and assets in the form of property and other savings.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

One thing we have all neglected to ask the OP -because it might make a considerable difference to him financially - is whether he has already retired and taken his pension lump sum, or is due to do so in the near future. If he already has it and has not yet moved to Spain, fine, same if he receives it any time before 1 January 2015 and moves to Spain afterwards.

However (and apologies if you already know this, Stuart) if you don't receive your pension lump sum until after 1 January 2015 then you would be well advised not to make the move to Spain until after 1 July of that year. That is because if you are tax resident in Spain (which you become once you have been here for 183 days in a Spanish tax year which runs from 1 January to 31 December), the lump sum is taxable in Spain, which of course it is not in the UK.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Just as a matter of interest in relation to the lump sum mentioned above-am not advocating fraud/ tax avoidance etc- but if you have some money in a UK savings acct how do the Spanish authorities find out about it?

Surely they don't/ can't contact every UK bank checking for every UK ex pats records???

Just wondering


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## Allay sea (Aug 22, 2014)

Been there done that! Apartments are expensive compared to other areas. Benalmadena is extremely hilly except for the seafront. The Pueblo is a nice spot with a good mix of Spanish and expats. It has a regular bus service and a good private hospital named xanit. It is very central,close to the airport, everything on your doorstep so to speak. I wouldn't like to live on the costa there long term as I think it's a bit tacky. If you decide to go, I'm sure you will like it but I found Valencia to be just as nice and money goes further.


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## Stuart M (Oct 3, 2014)

*Thank you for advice*

I would just like to thank all of you that replied to my question yesterday of "Moving to Spain". I appreciated all of your comments and it has given me food for thought.
But it may sound strange to those that commented "Spain on the cheap" would not be an upgrade cannot appreciate what I am like as a person.
You offered me a fillet steak and I would be quite happy with 5 sardines, a bottle of £40 wine you can keep when house wine is fine. I have personal savings to supplement my pension and in 11 years also get an OAP pension on top of it. After years of living in a City, London, and the stress of my type of work, just to be able to walk each day along the promenade from Benalmadena to Torremolinos and back is my idea of heaven, just looking at the sea and actually having the chance to look at what is going on around me. But once again Thank you all so much for your contributions, it was good to see different points of view.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

angil said:


> 'Upgrading' is all about a persons circumstance & perspective!
> So now 'we' are knocking even those who don't need work to live here? Just because it would have to be done on the cheap? (cheaper than 'you' think it should be?).


As you say upgrading all depends on what you want and personal situations.

I don't think anything's being knocked, only that different points of view, different perspectives, have been presented making for more interesting and balanced threads


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Allay sea said:


> Been there done that! Apartments are expensive compared to other areas. Benalmadena is extremely hilly except for the seafront. The Pueblo is a nice spot with a good mix of Spanish and expats. It has a regular bus service and a good private hospital named xanit. It is very central,close to the airport, everything on your doorstep so to speak. I wouldn't like to live on the costa there long term as I think it's a bit tacky. If you decide to go, I'm sure you will like it but I found Valencia to be just as nice and money goes further.


I have visited Benalmadena acouple of times and agree withyou, it's not a place I'd like to live. But obviously many people are content to live there.
I also agree that it's expensive compared to other places. I visit a friend who has an apartmentin a block that looks greatfrom the outside...lovely gardens, pool etc. great view. But the apartment itself is so small you couldn't swing the proverbial cat. One tiny bedroom of the two has no natural light and the kitchen is a galley.
For this rabbit hutch he paid £350000.


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## Stuart M (Oct 3, 2014)

I do not think I "knocked" anybody, as I stated I appreciate everybodys personal outlook is different as well as there expectations, all I was trying to explain was that for me personally the chance just to have "peace of mind" is all I want, unless you have lived in London for 55 years and worked for 2 different Police Forces then you cannot comprehend what I mean.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Stuart M said:


> I do not think I "knocked" anybody, as I stated I appreciate everybodys personal outlook is different as well as there expectations, all I was trying to explain was that for me personally the chance just to have "peace of mind" is all I want, unless you have lived in London for 55 years and worked for 2 different Police Forces then you cannot comprehend what I mean.


Stuart, Angil made the comment which included the word "knocking" and I quoted him/ her when I replied.
And I think I can understand, at least in part what you are saying without having had to do the stint in London, or the police force!

Conclusion, no one Knocked anyone


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> As you say upgrading all depends on what you want and personal situations.
> 
> I don't think anything's being knocked, only that different points of view, different perspectives, have been presented making for more interesting and balanced threads


Upgrading isn't just about money. Not having to get up and go to work every day is surely a major upgrade..I'm posting this as I laze in bed with a cup of coffee. If I were still working I'd have been up hours ago.
A change to a different lifestyle can be an upgrade. It doesn't have to involve spending more money. We spend less than we did in the UK but have upgraded our lifestyle.
It's important to match income and lifestyle whether working or retired but more so when you no longer work. If you are ingood health you could enjoy twenty years plus of your life. The last thing you need are money worries.
I thought I'd made it clear that I was referring to retired folk. If I were looking for work, Spain is the last place I'd come to at this time.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Stuart M said:


> I do not think I "knocked" anybody, as I stated I appreciate everybodys personal outlook is different as well as there expectations, all I was trying to explain was that for me personally the chance just to have "peace of mind" is all I want, unless you have lived in London for 55 years and worked for 2 different Police Forces then you cannot comprehend what I mean.


Oh yes, I understand. I worked in London in a tough school - Finsbury Park area - for years.
I think I've made clear in my posts that upgrading your lifestyle isn't just about money.
I hope you enjoy your retirement as much as I'm enjoying mine.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Rabbitcat said:


> Just as a matter of interest in relation to the lump sum mentioned above-am not advocating fraud/ tax avoidance etc- but if you have some money in a UK savings acct how do the Spanish authorities find out about it?
> 
> Surely they don't/ can't contact every UK bank checking for every UK ex pats records???
> 
> Just wondering


The time is fast approaching when they wouldn't have to bother, details of all bank accounts and other investments will begin to be automatically provided by the country in which they are held to the holder's country of residence. Britain was one of the first countries to sign up to the OECD agreement on automatic exchange of information and a great deal of work has been done on developing the scheme since then:-

http://www.oecd.org/tax/exchange-of...hange-Financial-Account-Information-Brief.pdf

So once that begins, if someone has an account in the UK and they haven't previously declared the interest received on their Spanish tax return, then Hacienda are going to want to know where it came from, how long the account has been open, etc. If more than €50,000 in any one asset class is involved, and the acccount holder has not submitted Modelo 720 declarations as well as a tax return, then the financial penalties 
can be very severe.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Just an observation...people often say that just walking by the sea etc. is all they want from their life. That is true especially in the first few months of retirement but then for some people they find they need more, notin material terms but in terms of activities, whether sporting, cultural, social.
Many retired immigrants get involved with voluntary work and I'm sure there are plenty of opportunities in Benalmadena for that kind of thing.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Upgrading isn't just about money. Not having to get up and go to work every day is surely a major upgrade.


I know.
I understand this.


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## Stuart M (Oct 3, 2014)

*Moving to Spain 2*

Thank you again who posted responses to my question of last week re moving to Spain on a £12,000 a year pension.
Many of you said I may need to top this up with personal savings as I am 55 and would not get free health care until 65 and also to enjoy a better quality of life.
Would any of you have any idea of what sort of sum I should have to cover those 10 years, please any ideas of a rough figure would be great to top up my pension of £12,000 a year.
Also people have told me that for the 1st year I do not have to inform the authorities of my assets as Spanish tax is 1 year behind. If true what would be the best time to make the move to make the most of this.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Stuart M said:


> Thank you again who posted responses to my question of last week re moving to Spain on a £12,000 a year pension.
> Many of you said I may need to top this up with personal savings as I am 55 and would not get free health care until 65 and also to enjoy a better quality of life.
> Would any of you have any idea of what sort of sum I should have to cover those 10 years, please any ideas of a rough figure would be great to top up my pension of £12,000 a year.
> Also people have told me that for the 1st year I do not have to inform the authorities of my assets as Spanish tax is 1 year behind. If true what would be the best time to make the move to make the most of this.


To help us answer the question, can you tell us whether your pension is already in payment and you have already received your lump sum, or if not, what date you are due to retire?

It's very hard for anybody to say by how much, if anything, you might need to top up your pension income. The exchange rate might go down again for instance, as it did in 2007\2008. We moved towards the end of 2006, and in fairly short order found that we had one third less money to live on than we thought we were going to have -plus the interest we were getting on our savings plummeted. Fortunately we hadn't made our plans based on the bare minimum we would need to survive. 

I think all we could estimate that you will need at least €700 per month to cover your bills (400 rent, plus utilities, private health insurance and public transport). As your current income is €1250 per month (but there will be some tax to pay on that), it's up to you, dependent on your lifestyle and how much you think you'd want to spend on food, entertainment, clothes, holidays etc.

Oh, and if you're 55 now then your state retirement age will be 66, won't it, so you won't get an S1 to cover you for healthcare until then. Assuming they'll still be available from the UK for anybody at all, that is. None of us has a crystal ball (afaik) so we don't know what the circumstances are going to be that far down the line.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

I'm interested in the responses to this thread as I'll be moving over year after next and was wondering how much you would need as a minimum. 
There is always the possibility that the value of sterling will drop but also it might go up, so although it is nice to look on the bright side I suppose you/we all, need to keep the drop of sterling in mind when budgeting. 
I get my pay out at work Jan 2016 so it is my intention not to move until the Sept of that year, for tax purposes. As far as I understand it I won't need to register for tax purposes until after the June 2017 so my pension VS etc won't get hit twice by the tax system after being hit here. Oh to not be paye and pay an accountant to ease things in that way.
I'm considering buying a townhouse in a village after a period of renting and keeping a bolt hole over here, just in case.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Roy C said:


> I'm interested in the responses to this thread as I'll be moving over year after next and was wondering how much you would need as a minimum.
> There is always the possibility that the value of sterling will drop but also it might go up, so although it is nice to look on the bright side I suppose you/we all, need to keep the drop of sterling in mind when budgeting.
> I get my pay out at work Jan 2016 so it is my intention not to move until the Sept of that year, for tax purposes. As far as I understand it I won't need to register for tax purposes until after the June 2017 so my pension VS etc won't get hit twice by the tax system after being hit here. Oh to not be paye and pay an accountant to ease things in that way.
> I'm considering buying a townhouse in a village after a period of renting and keeping a bolt hole over here, just in case.


I always believe in planning for the worst case scenario and if it doesn't happen, you're in clover! If you are super optimistic and the worst case does happen, then you're in deep you know what.

You're very nearly right about the tax situation - if you move in September 2016 you will become Spanish tax resident in 2017 (tax year beginning 1 January 2017 that is). So your first tax return would have to be submitted in May or June 2018.

There is a lot to be said for buying a townhouse in a village, IMO. You're not sinking all your funds into Spanish property in case the market continues in a parlous state. Provided you get one that's not too small, has been well modernised or has the potential to be if you want to take on a project, has good neighbours in a quiet yet convenient position, and some outside space, they are great. You are far less likely to encounter the problem of illegal houses with a town or village property. Most villages have an open air swimming pool for the summer months which you can use at very low cost.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Thanks Lynn, I see you are Velez-Malaga I love that town, especially the all night bakery very handy on a late night arrival, we stayed in a villa on the road to Arenas the last two years and loved it. 

I'm glad I seem to be on track and won't get clobbered twice for the tax, in fact we could probably move over sooner and still be ok by the look of what you post. 

Townhouse, I was thinking more the edge of a village and one that has been refurbed a bit as my diy skills are lacking. Also I thought a village house would be less likely to be an illegal build and the cheap pool sounds just the ticket, sod that servicing pools, although I'm sure the advantages would pay dividends.


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## Stuart M (Oct 3, 2014)

*Moving to Spain - 2 update*

Hi All
To those of you that have asked, I am already in receipt of my pension and have also received my lump sum, I am at present still working but looking to finish when I get my Father into sheltered accommodation.
I have no other family apart from him so I would be looking at renting as I cannot see the point of buying as I would have no one to leave it to on death.
I hope this information may help as to any replies of what sort of sum of personal savings I need to back up this pension over 11 years till I get my OAP pension as well.
I understand the bit about rising/falling interest rates but an idea of £ sterling as a backup would be appreciated


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## Lolito (Aug 25, 2012)

I went to Benalmadena once and they only thing I remember is block of flats/apartments, and no space on the beach for my towel.... never went back. Why go there? Eek!

Here the beaches are almost wild, not hotels and big blocks of flats.... most of Spain is like this, if you look any further, you might find something really nice for your retirement.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Roy C said:


> Thanks Lynn, I see you are Velez-Malaga I love that town, especially the all night bakery very handy on a late night arrival, we stayed in a villa on the road to Arenas the last two years and loved it.
> 
> I'm glad I seem to be on track and won't get clobbered twice for the tax, in fact we could probably move over sooner and still be ok by the look of what you post.
> 
> Townhouse, I was thinking more the edge of a village and one that has been refurbed a bit as my diy skills are lacking. Also I thought a village house would be less likely to be an illegal build and the cheap pool sounds just the ticket, sod that servicing pools, although I'm sure the advantages would pay dividends.


Yes, having all the amenities of a big town on the doorstep is a big plus for me!

As for reforming, you don't have to diy if you don't want to. This is going to sound horrible, but given the economic situation atm, the cost of labour and materials could hardly be lower. The house we bought didn't need any structural reforms, but we had the kitchen retiled and refitted, both bathrooms retiled and refitted, the patio and outside staircase retiled, and some of the exterior rendering repaired and repainted, all whilst we were still living in the UK and just coming over for holidays. The only thing I'd do differently would be not to employ a British builder as we discovered later that we'd been overcharged big time compared to Spanish rates. Now we always ask a Spanish neighbour if they can recommend someone to do whatever it is we need, if my OH doesn't want to tackle it himself, and it's always worked well.

After we'd moved over my OH converted what used to be a pigeon loft off the roof terrace into another spare bedroom\study\cum chill out room, he retiled the roof terrace and we got someone to retile the front facade of the house and do more exterior rendering\painting too. This house is a bit of a Forth Bridge when it comes to exterior painting, not being attached on either side there is the 2 storey front, two 3-storey gable end walls plus 4 outside walls enclosing the rear patio to keep up, plus the roof terrace walls. But we don't tackle all of it ourselves.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Stuart M said:


> Hi All
> To those of you that have asked, I am already in receipt of my pension and have also received my lump sum, I am at present still working but looking to finish when I get my Father into sheltered accommodation.
> I have no other family apart from him so I would be looking at renting as I cannot see the point of buying as I would have no one to leave it to on death.
> I hope this information may help as to any replies of what sort of sum of personal savings I need to back up this pension over 11 years till I get my OAP pension as well.
> I understand the bit about rising/falling interest rates but an idea of £ sterling as a backup would be appreciated


You should have no particular worries about taxation then. If you moved next week, or any time before 1 January 2015, as I explained to Roy C above, you don't become tax resident until the 2015 tax year. Therefore your first tax return would need to be submitted in May or June 2016. Same goes if you move any time between 1 January and 30 June 2016. After 1 July 2016, your first year as a tax resident would be 2017.

Your police pension would, I believe, be counted as a Government pension and therefore has to be taxed in the UK. However, you still need to declare it on your Spanish tax return although it is entered in a separate box as exempt income. This can for some people result in more tax being due in Spain (Spanish personal allowances are lower than in the UK and you also have to declare any income (eg interest on savings) you have from anywhere in the world. If your savings, which includes ISAs, shares, premium bonds, anything, amount to more than €50,00 in any one asset class, then you need to submit a separate 720 return giving details of all these assets. That doesn't mean you pay any more tax on any of them.

I will leave it to others to say by how much they think you might have to supplement your income from savings.

PS You can leave all your money to me if you like, I am a deserving case and I wouldn't moan about having to pay Spanish inheritance tax on it, honest!


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## GallineraGirl (Aug 13, 2011)

Roy C said:


> Thanks Lynn, I see you are Velez-Malaga I love that town, especially the all night bakery very handy on a late night arrival, we stayed in a villa on the road to Arenas the last two years and loved it. I'm glad I seem to be on track and won't get clobbered twice for the tax, in fact we could probably move over sooner and still be ok by the look of what you post. Townhouse, I was thinking more the edge of a village and one that has been refurbed a bit as my diy skills are lacking. Also I thought a village house would be less likely to be an illegal build and the cheap pool sounds just the ticket, sod that servicing pools, although I'm sure the advantages would pay dividends.


Would agree with all that has been said about village houses. We love living in ours. However, watch out for damp when you are looking, as you will probably never be able to cure it. Also, away from the coast central heating and double glazing are good as these properties can get very cold in winter. Also try to get terraces and patios that face in more than direction as some may be too hot to use in summer and too cold in winter. Getting a townhouse with a garage and garden can be difficult. We have purchased both now, a short distance from our house, and this has much improved our lives ( although not our bank balance - legal costs are high in Spain).

Our town hall gives pensioners a free season ticket for our lovely valley pool which is surrounded by mountains!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

When we did our sums before moving we did it on a basis of parity: 1 GBP =1EURO. We thought that such a devaluation would never come to pass - at the time we thought of moving here the rate was 1GBP =1.20 EURO. But t when we arrived in early December 2008 travellers changing to euros at Heathrow were getting less than 1EURO to 1 GBP.
When we moved to Prague in 2005 1GBP would buy you over 42 CZK. two years later you were lucky to get 25 CZK. 
When I advised earlier against moving to Spain 'on the cheap' it seems not everyone grasped my point. If you have a secure income but don't want to live in a large house or apartment but a smaller place, that is NOT what I mean by 'on the cheap'. If the apartment is nice and suits you all well and good. Similarly with 'lifestyle'...there is no law that says you must eat in fancy restaurants.
What I meant was this: if your retirement income is just about capable of enabling you to move to Spain but only if you rent the cheapest place to live, make do with the bare necessities and so on, then moving probably isn't a good idea. I maintain that after a lifetime of work, people deserve to spend their retirement years as pleasantly and as stress-free as possible. We are often told on this Forum of British immigrants struggling to make ends meet because the exchange rate has dropped, taxes have risen, unforeseen expenses have cropped up or whatever.
It's almost impossible to advise someone as to how much they will need to adequately fund their life in Spain for reasons already stated. We decided that for us, having the 'right' place to live was important for us, in terms of type of house and environment. Living in the house we chose takes up well over a half of our monthly outgoings, two-thirds almost as we are happy enough to be able to enjoy our house, pool and garden and don't need much other than the basics, plus a good lunch or dinner out occasionally. Others might prioritise differently.
But as I said in a previous post, not having to run to a timetable is the biggest and also cost-free bonus of retirement.
We got up this morning, looked out of the window, saw the sun was shining and decided to walk the dogs by the rio to the beach to watch the sun come up. Then we had breakfast outside.
What price could you put on that....


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Stuart M said:


> Hi All
> To those of you that have asked, I am already in receipt of my pension and have also received my lump sum, I am at present still working but looking to finish when I get my Father into sheltered accommodation.
> I have no other family apart from him so I would be looking at renting as I cannot see the point of buying as I would have no one to leave it to on death.
> I hope this information may help as to any replies of what sort of sum of personal savings I need to back up this pension over 11 years till I get my OAP pension as well.
> I understand the bit about rising/falling interest rates but an idea of £ sterling as a backup would be appreciated


We sold our properties when we left the UK and have rented ever since. My son and his wife are both high earners so we are unrepentant SKINs. Hopefully our bank accounts will contain enough for funeral expenses and a party for friends when we are No Longer Here. Renting gives you fewer if any responsibilities for repairs etc. and if you for whatever reason want to move on it's simplicity itself to do so.
If you are selling your UK house you will have more than enough capital as back-up.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Just one more thing and then I'll shut up, I promise. Being sensible and cautious is good. But there is such a thing as being too cautious.

My OH's oldest friend bought himself a house near ours, having been out to visit us and loved it here, planning to spend his retirement here. He was a single man, with a mortgage free house in the UK plus the one here, and a good amount in savings. He kept putting off retiring even when he reached 60, as he was scared (for no good reason) of running out of money. Then he developed mesothelioma and died within 15 months, never having been able to realise his dream of living here full time, and someone else inherited his houses and all the money.

With a secure income and back-up funds in the bank you are in a far better position than many people who come on here enquiring about moving to Spain. Just do it, would be my advice! And good luck to you.


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## DaveandLiz (Aug 18, 2014)

Well said Lynn R

Dave


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## Stuart M (Oct 3, 2014)

*Thanks*



Lynn R said:


> Just one more thing and then I'll shut up, I promise. Being sensible and cautious is good. But there is such a thing as being too cautious.
> 
> My OH's oldest friend bought himself a house near ours, having been out to visit us and loved it here, planning to spend his retirement here. He was a single man, with a mortgage free house in the UK plus the one here, and a good amount in savings. He kept putting off retiring even when he reached 60, as he was scared (for no good reason) of running out of money. Then he developed mesothelioma and died within 15 months, never having been able to realise his dream of living here full time, and someone else inherited his houses and all the money.
> 
> With a secure income and back-up funds in the bank you are in a far better position than many people who come on here enquiring about moving to Spain. Just do it, would be my advice! And good luck to you.


Many thanks Lynn
My Father is telling me that as well, even though I am waiting for him to get into sheltered housing he tells me just to go "i HAVE HAD MY LIFE YOU NEED YOURS"
He tells me exactly what you have "You do not know what is around the corner" you have a pension and savings so do not be so cautious.
I am glad you feel the same way Lynn


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Thanks GallineraGirl that is much appreciated advice. Your place sounds idyllic. 




GallineraGirl said:


> Would agree with all that has been said about village houses. We love living in ours. However, watch out for damp when you are looking, as you will probably never be able to cure it. Also, away from the coast central heating and double glazing are good as these properties can get very cold in winter. Also try to get terraces and patios that face in more than direction as some may be too hot to use in summer and too cold in winter. Getting a townhouse with a garage and garden can be difficult. We have purchased both now, a short distance from our house, and this has much improved our lives ( although not our bank balance - legal costs are high in Spain).
> 
> Our town hall gives pensioners a free season ticket for our lovely valley pool which is surrounded by mountains!


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Thanks Lynn , wherever I am, I always believe in employing local/locals and will do so in Spain.

I think my wife would be more than happy and relieved if we go down that road.



Lynn R said:


> Yes, having all the amenities of a big town on the doorstep is a big plus for me!
> 
> As for reforming, you don't have to diy if you don't want to. This is going to sound horrible, but given the economic situation atm, the cost of labour and materials could hardly be lower. The house we bought didn't need any structural reforms, but we had the kitchen retiled and refitted, both bathrooms retiled and refitted, the patio and outside staircase retiled, and some of the exterior rendering repaired and repainted, all whilst we were still living in the UK and just coming over for holidays. The only thing I'd do differently would be not to employ a British builder as we discovered later that we'd been overcharged big time compared to Spanish rates. Now we always ask a Spanish neighbour if they can recommend someone to do whatever it is we need, if my OH doesn't want to tackle it himself, and it's always worked well.
> 
> After we'd moved over my OH converted what used to be a pigeon loft off the roof terrace into another spare bedroom\study\cum chill out room, he retiled the roof terrace and we got someone to retile the front facade of the house and do more exterior rendering\painting too. This house is a bit of a Forth Bridge when it comes to exterior painting, not being attached on either side there is the 2 storey front, two 3-storey gable end walls plus 4 outside walls enclosing the rear patio to keep up, plus the roof terrace walls. But we don't tackle all of it ourselves.


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