# commuting, quality of life.



## chris (Jul 5, 2007)

Dear all have been reading this site and others for years, had planed to come over next year due to economy and all the comments made on this site have taken our house off the market. We are considering mid 2011. If we do not do it then we will not be able to do it until we retire as my children will then be 7 and 9 any older they will never fit into state school. We thought as many others have that with hard work and determination we would get work, not the case as i understand, our only other alternative is for my husband to commute, he is a self employed lorry driver and a electrician, prefres electrics, but more money in driving. Have also just read that he needs spanish qualifications for electrics. A question for jo and any others commuting how do you cope without your husband, mine would have to be away for 6 weeks, spain 2 weeks, to be able to cope with the extra costs involved with commuting. Do you get lonely? my children are still young so my social life will be restricted. We all want to move to spain, but have a lot to give up, until recently was convinced that we would gain a better quality of life, not so sure now, would you say that the quality of your life has improved even with the difficulties? The cold weather that has been mentioned are you in inland rather than coastal? as i believe the weather is colder inland. Have been at college for two years studying beauty therapy and nails, did want to start my own buisness over their doing mobile if there is so many going back to the uk, would this leave a gap in the emerging market in 2012? if yes are you better off biting the bullet, and taking advantage of the housing market over the next 1-2 years? thank you so much for your help and advice :


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Hi Chris, How do I cope with my OH commuting - where do I start. At first, I hated it. The first time he went back to the UK was after we'd been here 10 days. I was barely used to driving the car, I wasnt sure of the way to get to anywhere ( I cant tell you how many times I got lost and sat in the car crying!), and to top it all, it rained and rained for whole time he was away - which was about a week!
The children were 11 and 13 and they missed their friends, they missed our old home and surroundings and of course they missed daddy, so I had to try and keep "up beat" for them. 

So to sum up, the first month or so was hell!!!, not just cos I was on my own a lot of the time, but because the weather was bad and I was lost and lonely.

Gradually tho, the weather brightened up, I made friends, so did the kids and I got used to it all. Actually i have quite a few friends who's husbands commute - one who's husband is a long distance lorry driver. so its not unusual.

I'm still not happy with it, nor is my husband, he has never really gelled with Spain, because he's never here long enough - or if he is here for a couple of weeks, he tends to treat it as a holiday, rather than home (doesnt want to do anything!). I have to say we have had some fairly big rows over it all. Partly because he doesnt have a regular pattern - he can be away for up to 3 weeks and here for up to 10 days, last summer he was away alot and at one stage only came back for 36 hours every 3 weeks, and I'm always feeling than he prefers being in the UK and trying to find excuses to go back there - he says thats not the case???? He has this annoying habit of telling me he's coming back for 2 weeks and then when he gets here he tells me he can only sstay for one!! - thats usually when we argue - and then we get the "If I dont work hard in the UK, you wont have any money to fritter in Spain" blah blah... Its not easy for him either, he says he doesnt know where home is anymore and feels very odd wherever he is, so I guess we've still got some getting used to it to do!

On the whole tho, I think we're glad we've done it. No its not easy, no its not relaxing and no its nothing like we thought it would be, quality of life??? I really dont know, but I think its better, certainly its fun in the summer and there's more freedom and open spaces, shops are open late and it somehow just feels friendlier than the UK. Of course this recent credit crunch thing has not helped and plans to set up a sister company here are well and truly on hold as he needs concesntrate on keeping the UK business afloat which fortunately is doing ok. One things for sure, if we were going to move to Spain this Feb instead of last - we wouldnt!

We're still not 100% certain we will stay, so thankfully we didnt sell our UK house and we're only renting here. It all very much depends on the exchange rate as we're paid in sterling and thats reduced our income here. So at the moment, we're in a limboland. 

All that said, I love living here, I've got some good friends and I'm now used to not having a man around, the kids miss him, but actually, the ammount he used to work when we were in the UK means he probably sees more of them. Its the nights I dont like on my own, you know, locking up, turning all the lights off - I go to sleep with the TV on for company.

At the moment he arrives here sunday morning and goes back on wednesday, but thats only cos flights are cheap. when March comes its all change??? 

Gosh, I've rambled on a bit, sorry. Actually its been nice to write about it all. I guess you have to make up your own minds, we had to do it when we did, cos like you we didnt want the kids to get any older. I'm happy we're here, but I couldnt say if it was the right thing to do

Jo


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## rospapergirl (Sep 10, 2008)

Without going into all the details, two years ago we had originally wanted to buy a small holiday bolt-hole here but circumstances changed which meant that the savings we had, needed to be put into our business and so we could no longer afford to do this. We ended up having to sell the business last year as we were not getting any income from it and at that point realised that we had no idea what job to do next and whether or not we would ever be able to afford to visit Spain as regularly as we had wanted to. While the sale was going through and being being ruled by our hearts (particularly me!) and not practicalities, we had one 9-day holiday here in August to investigate and decide whether to take this risk of moving here for good. We loved it so much that we decided to go for it also the decision was made easier because of our uncertain future in the UK and the thought of starting from scratch in the same environment we had always lived in. We have been here since November 2008 now and, although I miss my daughter loads and SOME of our friends, we love it. My partner got a job within 2 weeks. Lucky? I don't think so - he decided he was going to get one and pulled out all the stops and succeeded even though he has no trade or profession. He's even enjoying it! 

It has been cold and sometimes wet but the sun hasn't been far away and even on those bad days the sky seems higher, the views spectacular and it's not depressing like it can be in the UK. Every day I look at the sea and it's a different colour. I know that summer will definitely come. I meet holiday-makers sometimes and think 'you poor things, you've got to go back'. 

My partner's family visited at Christmas and they're now making plans to move over. One is an 11-year-old who will obviously have to start a new school but surely this can only broaden his horizons and increase his confidence once he's settled. Several schools in this area offer the English Curriculum and many go on to British universities (I'm told).

I believe that nothing needs to be forever and we can change things if we really want to and anyway, the UK's less than a 3-hour flight away.


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## rospapergirl (Sep 10, 2008)

Oh dear, I think I did go into the details! Sorry to bore!


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## Zimtony (Jun 28, 2008)

Hi Chris,

When we first moved here, I commuted for a while and it was't easy on my wife nor me. Firstly, my wife went through the rigmarole of getting the kids into schools and dealing with the Spanish paperwork fun and games. The acual commuting was OK at first, but I also started to treat being in Spain as a holiday and it didn't feel much like home until I stopped commuting, some 6 months after we came to Spain. Now we are much more settled!
Regarding your beauty training: my wife has owned a salon here for over 6 years and luckily is still doing well. However, the fact that many people are going back to the UK means that your available market is shrinking. It is highly ulikely that you would be sucessful in gaining Spanish clients, due to the language barriers, local business allegiances and also pure pricing issues. Even with a wel established business, employing 6 people and being fluent in Spanish, less that 5% of my wife's clientele are actually Spanish. Most are English, Dutch, Gemand and Scandinavian! I guess that you have to abalance those comments with your preferred location and what is happening in that particular area.

All that said, I would far, far rather be struggling to make a living here a opposed to doing it in the UK!!!

Good luck and remember, sometimes the most difficult decision is the first step!
Cheers
Tony


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

rospapergirl said:


> Oh dear, I think I did go into the details! Sorry to bore!



I think I was infinately more boring than you LOL!! and my post seems so miserable! Its the weather!!!???? Its been a nice day today, although the wind is a bit chilly. reminds me of the UK, maybe thats why!

Jo x


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## rospapergirl (Sep 10, 2008)

jojo said:


> I think I was infinately more boring than you LOL!! and my post seems so miserable! Its the weather!!!???? Its been a nice day today, although the wind is a bit chilly. reminds me of the UK, maybe thats why!
> 
> Jo x



No, yours was more from the heart than mine. I feel sad sometimes but I still don't want to be there - at the moment anyway - but it's early days for me!!

Ros x


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## chris (Jul 5, 2007)

Thank you all so much, jo jo your honesty has been very helpful, not depressing and not droning on. I suspect that i will feel very much the same as you intially, i do panic and worry, my husband is okay with the commute as he belives things always work out in the end. We allways intended to buy then move, i think maybe now i should reconsider, rent for awhile and if it does not work out, we can allways come back, but what a wonderful experince for the children whatever way it works out. I also hate the cold, and am concerned i will feel the way you do jojo. If things work out and we buy insulation will be top of the list!!! Rosepaper girl your husband got a job after 2 weeks in nov 2008, wow! lucky yes, what work does he do. Thats the only postive job prospect i have heard about in spain for months. What an insperation. Zimtony thank you for your insight i knew it would be difficult, the market hear is flooded with B therapists so is difficult here too. I looked into the state school system and it said you needed a document to get the kids into school, but that could take 6 months, for that document you need an address and utility bills, which was why we were going to buy first then come back here until the kids were ok to go to school. How did you get your children into state school? Tell me where you all live so i when i move to spain ive got some one to hold my hand, when its cold, wet, windy and the hubby is back in the uk lol. thank you all for your help chris


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

chris said:


> I looked into the state school system and it said you needed a document to get the kids into school, but that could take 6 months, for that document you need an address and utility bills,


Generally all you need is to be on the CENSUS (The PADRON) for which a RENTAL AGREEMENT should suffice. They may ask you to be registered as a resident. But your temp NIE will be enough (the full one can take a month). 

With this PLEAD your case to the Councillor responsible for education - if the local "rules" given to the admin folk at the town hall prevent immediate attention. 

Under Spanish law EDUCATION is obligatory - so they HAVE TO find a place, or you can denounce them (which the political opposition are just waiting for!)  The only other risk of short term applications is that the PLACE may not be as local as you'd like.


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## AfroSaxon (Jan 23, 2009)

So, for all of you with kids, would you say that they settled into their new life rather quickly or did it take time? How are your children getting on at school and with the language?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

AfroSaxon said:


> So, for all of you with kids, would you say that they settled into their new life rather quickly or did it take time? How are your children getting on at school and with the language?


My son settled fairly quickly, about 3 months, mind you he's in an International school. My daughter went there for a couple of months, but she wanted to try a State school, so she started at the local one in september. She hated it from the start - to her surprise, no one spoke English (duh!!), so rather than smile and try to learn and understand, she just went "into herself" and became very withdrawn and moddy - of course, some of this is down to hormones (shes 11), either way, she hasnt been learning anything and has been very unhappy. She's been having extra spanish lessons at home which is helping and she is beginning to make friends, but I wouldnt say she was 100% settled yet - thats after a year. She still misses the UK and would love to go back!


jo


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## AfroSaxon (Jan 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> My son settled fairly quickly, about 3 months, mind you he's in an International school. My daughter went there for a couple of months, but she wanted to try a State school, so she started at the local one in september. She hated it from the start - to her surprise, no one spoke English (duh!!), so rather than smile and try to learn and understand, she just went "into herself" and became very withdrawn and moddy - of course, some of this is down to hormones (shes 11), either way, she hasnt been learning anything and has been very unhappy. She's been having extra spanish lessons at home which is helping and she is beginning to make friends, but I wouldnt say she was 100% settled yet - thats after a year. She still misses the UK and would love to go back!
> 
> 
> jo


Thanks very much Jo.

The reason I ask is because my sister-in-law intends to follow us to Spain within a couple of years of us moving there (not for a long time yet). Our daughter is 18 so no real worries there, but my SIL has two nippers who would be around aged 7 and 13 years old at the time. The eldest is enjoying Spanish learning games at home at the moment...I hope he keeps it up, then he can teach us a thing or two!

State school sounds kind of 'deep end' but then I haven't read much about it. As your daughter has started to make friends, give her another year and you may not be able to tear her away, bless. To be fair...11 year old girl...there's going to be no pleasing them whatever you do. Our 18 y/o is still the same...know's everything and we're stupid


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## Zimtony (Jun 28, 2008)

Chris, once you get rental agreement and your NIE, go to your local town hall and ask for an Enpadramiento, which is a document from the town hall to prove you live there. You may also need a utility bill from your landlord and it may be beter if he could go with you. Find out as much info about the local schools and make a "Cita Previa" (appointment) to see the headmaster. If there are spaces for the kids, it should be fairly straightforward. Afrosaxon, from a personal point of view, we chose a local Spanish school that did not have a particular high level of English kids. This was a bit of harsh treatment that has paid off immensley. The first couple of months were very tough for both my kids, especially my (at the time) 9 year old daughter, it was easier for my 6 year old son. However, with lots of love and encouragement, they are both now 100% fluent and my daughter also is very proficient in French, as that is now her secong language at school. She has obtained top marks at school each year, with the exception of that first, tough year. She is now on track to going to Cordoba University to study to be a vet in 2011. My advice: stick the kids in a good, local Spanish school. Forget any talk about the International Schools. Both my kids have now integrated fully into the local community, have fantastic Spanish friends and we couldn't be happier with the situation. It does, however, require lots of love, nuturing and support in the early days and the road to a happy expat family life in Spain is littered with families who couldn' take pressure of the children in school. The main problem with the International school route, is that the kids all tend to come from a fairly wide catchment area and it is difficult for them to mix & integrate with local kids. With the exception of people who are transient in Spain (only here for a short time, working a specific contract etc) I would always, always recomend a Spanish school against the International route.
That is my 5 centimos worht from my soapbaox!
'sta luego!!


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## chris (Jul 5, 2007)

Thank you zimtony, we had intended a spanish school, my son nearly 7, will be 9 when we go loves the idea of spain but HATES the idea of spanish school, and we know we are in for a hard time! we took him to spanish classes and he was very resitant, thinking if he learn't the language, he would have to go to spanish school, Little love the other day said he was going to save all his pennies so he could buy an english school out their, we have not told him that their are english schools out their otherwise we will not stand a chance getting him into a spanish school. My 5 year old daughter was fine with the idea, probabley not understanding the concept, but is now following her brother although i think she will settle very quickly, she has picked up a bit of spanish quite easily, but we had to stop their lessons due to other commitments., Thank you zimtony and chris for your help,


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

chris said:


> Thank you zimtony, we had intended a spanish school, my son nearly 7, will be 9 when we go loves the idea of spain but HATES the idea of spanish school, and we know we are in for a hard time! we took him to spanish classes and he was very resitant, thinking if he learn't the language, he would have to go to spanish school, Little love the other day said he was going to save all his pennies so he could buy an english school out their, we have not told him that their are english schools out their otherwise we will not stand a chance getting him into a spanish school. My 5 year old daughter was fine with the idea, probabley not understanding the concept, but is now following her brother although i think she will settle very quickly, she has picked up a bit of spanish quite easily, but we had to stop their lessons due to other commitments., Thank you zimtony and chris for your help,


Your son is a good age to start a spanish school, tell him there will be other British kids in his school (I'm sure there will be ??), so he shouldnt be the only little brit.

I agree with whats been said about international schools and had my two have been younger when we came out I would have definately put them into state school, but as my son was 13 I felt he was possibly a bit old to start messing around with his education. I dont know if I've done the right thing, but he's doing well and happy. International schools do tend to service a wide area and some of his friends are 20 miles away and yes, there are a lot of comings and goings with "transient" kids, but he does actually keep in touch with a lot of them on MSN - actually MSN has been a godsend for my kids They keep in touch with all their old UK friends and their new friends - even my daughter has a couple of Spanish friends she kinda "chats" to on there!!


Jo


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## rospapergirl (Sep 10, 2008)

Chris

Richard, my partner, works for a company selling front page positions on Google to businesses in the UK. Even though there's a recession, it's a product which people need to make sure they keep ahead of their opposition. Survival of the fittest and all that! He's never had a job like this before but has risen to the challenge and enjoys it AND he has weekends off (which we didn't before).

Ros x


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

chris said:


> I looked into the state school system and it said you needed a document to get the kids into school, but that could take 6 months, for that document you need an address and utility bills, which was why we were going to buy first then come back here until the kids were ok to go to school. How did you get your children into state school? Tell me where you all live so i when i move to spain ive got some one to hold my hand, when its cold, wet, windy and the hubby is back in the uk lol. thank you all for your help chris


No idea, where you got that from. You will need to be on the padrón but this is only a case of getting some pieces of paper in the right order. 

To get on the padrón COULD take years (depending on authority) but I can assure you that there are ways around every system in Spain and getting kids into school is a political hot potato so don't worry about that at all.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

chris said:


> Thank you zimtony, we had intended a spanish school, my son nearly 7, will be 9 when we go loves the idea of spain but HATES the idea of spanish school, and we know we are in for a hard time! we took him to spanish classes and he was very resitant, thinking if he learn't the language, he would have to go to spanish school,
> 
> My 5 year old daughter was fine with the idea, probabley not understanding the concept, but is now following her brother although i think she will settle very quickly, she has picked up a bit of spanish quite easily, but we had to stop their lessons due to other commitments.,


Well, if you are serious about Spain I'd start redifining your commitments. The ABSOLUTE priority should be getting the children as comfortable as you can with Spanish BEFORE they come. Sounds like your son is going to be a handful anyway so if he is not able to communicate at a basic level you could be on for hell. 

The absolute best way would be for you all to learn together - can't you get a Spanish teacher to your house for a few hours per week?


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## chris (Jul 5, 2007)

Hi steve yes i do agree with you, have tried to get some one to the house to teach the children, The best i could get was to go to a lady who had two kids of her own, who were messing about, why the children and i were trying to have a lesson and i was paying £30.00 for 45 miniuets for the privilage of listening to her shout at her children, not really a conducive enviroment for learning, i started a college course on the only evening she could do spanish lessons so they stopped. I do a spanish course during the day, and little words and phrases i pick up i teach the children, a word here and there, so they are being taught, without a sit down and do your lessons kinda thing. This seams to be the best way to handle my son, he does not have to take part, but my daughter allways does, as he is allways in the back ground he is hearing the words, and occasionally will repeat them so something is going in at different times. What he needs to physically see is english children in a spanish school, We should be coming out again in june looking at a new area, elche, costa blanca, if you know any one in that area with young children at a spanish school, who would not mind, meeting up for a coffee, so the children could share experinces, i would be eternally grateful if you could give me there email addresse. thank you chris, P.s. something else that was bothering me, we are looking at the valencia region, and the schools teach in valenciano so is the spanish we are learning relavent any way, how different is valenciano dialect to spanish? thank you chris


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## chris (Jul 5, 2007)

Sorry me again just wanted to say sorry, for allways posting big posts, allways did waffle on.


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## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

The Spanish you are learning is MOST DEFINITELY worthwhile because everywhere in Spain you will find Spanish (castellano) spoken. Although Elche is in the Comunidad Valenciana you will find the city itself is quite "Spanish" and valenciano is spoken more inland and northwards on the coast. 

Let me know nearer the time and I am sure I can get you a coffee with some guys. Elche is also most definitely not expatshire (plenty of expats in nearby towns) but a working Spanish town - one of my favourites.


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## chris (Jul 5, 2007)

Thank you so much for your help i will definatley mail you nearer the time, chris


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