# ACS - Employment Reference Documents



## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

Hi all,

I want to start the Australia Immigration process all by myself. I got this confidence after reading so many posts and threads. Also in the belief that Expat Forum members will guide me whenever im stuck. 

I have few doubts in the documents needed for ACS assessment. I have 10yrs of experience.2yrs in 1st company and 8yrs in the current company.

1. If my 1st company refuses to give me reference letter i understand that i can get it done on 20RS stamp paper from a colleague. Should the colleague need to work presently in the same company?

2. Should the collegue need to be in a Superior Position than me? Can the collegue be in a superior postion than me now but working for another company?

3. Do the colleague need to give any Proof that he had worked in the same company with me?

4. It is said that all documents need to be certified? does it mean that the documents that i upload need to be attested by a government official? if so whom should i approach? 

Please help me.. Thanks in advance.


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## Mroks (Nov 1, 2011)

Sai2Aus said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I want to start the Australia Immigration process all by myself. I got this confidence after reading so many posts and threads. Also in the belief that Expat Forum members will guide me whenever im stuck.
> 
> ...


If documents are in color then notarization is not required else required. Scan and make pdf file for uploading.

Rest doubts should get cleared by other members already gone through this statutory declaration part.


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## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

Thank you Mroks for the quick reply.. I have my marksheets and degree certificate scanned. Thats in color. the statuatory declarations need notarization? 

Waiting for the other doubts to be cleared..


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## kulpreets (Feb 5, 2013)

Sai2Aus said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I want to start the Australia Immigration process all by myself. I got this confidence after reading so many posts and threads. Also in the belief that Expat Forum members will guide me whenever im stuck.
> 
> ...


1. It is not mandatory for that guy to be working in the same company.
2. It would help if the statutory declaration that you are getting is from your senior. In the declaration he can mention that he was working with you.
3. No proof required. You just need to mention is contact details.
4. I got all my documents photocopied and then attested from Notary.


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## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

kulpreets said:


> 1. It is not mandatory for that guy to be working in the same company.
> 2. It would help if the statutory declaration that you are getting is from your senior. In the declaration he can mention that he was working with you.
> 3. No proof required. You just need to mention is contact details.
> 4. I got all my documents photocopied and then attested from Notary.


Thank you kulpreets for the reply..

If i dont give any proof for the Senior Colleague will ACS accept my documents?
Do i have to mention the contact details in the SD or seperate? Is there any format for SD? i found a format for employment reference letter.But couldnt find for SD.. Please help me.


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## kulpreets (Feb 5, 2013)

ACS needs documents to prove your qualification and experience. You do not have to prove the identity of your colleague. Contact details will be part of the SD itself. You can add the details at the end. 

You can find a sample for SD at http://www.expatforum.com/expats/1187826-post527.html. Though mine was not exactly the same but on similar lines. Take a printout of SD on an A4 sheet and attach it to a Rs.20/- e-Stamp paper and get it notarized. 

Best of luck!

-kulpreet





Sai2Aus said:


> Thank you kulpreets for the reply..
> 
> If i dont give any proof for the Senior Colleague will ACS accept my documents?
> Do i have to mention the contact details in the SD or seperate? Is there any format for SD? i found a format for employment reference letter.But couldnt find for SD.. Please help me.


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## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

kulpreets said:


> ACS needs documents to prove your qualification and experience. You do not have to prove the identity of your colleague. Contact details will be part of the SD itself. You can add the details at the end.
> 
> Though mine was not exactly the same but on similar lines. Take a printout of SD on an A4 sheet and attach it to a Rs.20/- e-Stamp paper and get it notarized.
> 
> ...


Kulpreet,

Thanks for the info and sample SD. Im just contacting my colleagues who can help me.. Just 2 employers and im finding great difficulty in convincing them.


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi Sai2Aus, 

you colleagues have to submit a _statutory declaration_ (= witnessed statement outside Australia) declaring that everything they wrote in that letter is true. The _Commonwealth Statutory Declaration_ format looks like this. You don't have to follow it but there should be a sentence along the lines of _"I believe that the statements in this declaration are true in every particular."_ To quote from the Australian statutory declaration form: 



> A person who intentionally makes a false statement in a statutory declaration is guilty of an offence, the punishment for which is imprisonment for a term of 4 years.


This is only valid for Australia, of course . But I assume that India has similar laws regarding false statements. If DIAC finds that you submitted fraudulent documents your application will be refused and you face a multi-year-ban from applying for another visa. I assume that this is usually enough of a deterrent to produce fabricated employment references. Plus, ACS/DIAC may perform employment verification calls and contact your referees/companies. 

Some applicants attach (self-drawn) organization charts, showing your referee's position in relation to you in the company hierarchy when you both worked there. You can also submit an (old) business card from your colleague that shows that he worked at the company. Most importantly, you should notify somebody in your old company who still works there (preferably in HR) that you are applying for a visa in Australia and ask if you can include their contact details as well, in case they want to call and verify that you (and your referee) actually worked there. That will definitely help a lot. 

All the best, 
Monika


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## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

espresso said:


> Hi Sai2Aus,
> 
> you colleagues have to submit a statutory declaration (= witnessed statement outside Australia) declaring that everything they wrote in that letter is true. The Commonwealth Statutory Declaration format looks like this. You don't have to follow it but there should be a sentence along the lines of "I believe that the statements in this declaration are true in every particular." To quote from the Australian statutory declaration form:
> 
> ...


Hi Monika

I very well understand bout the fraudulent documents. My questions where bout the reference letters and SD. I wanted to know whether the collegue shud b in the same comp even now.. 

Regarding the organisation chart you had mentioned can v do it on an A4 shert and attach to the same stamp paper?


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## sunnyboi (Jul 10, 2013)

Mroks said:


> If documents are in color then notarization is not required else required. Scan and make pdf file for uploading.
> 
> Rest doubts should get cleared by other members already gone through this statutory declaration part.


I read somewhere on the forum that just because the documents are colored, it doesn't work, but we have to take a copy of the documents and have it sealed by the concerned authorities. It's a bit confusing now


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## Mroks (Nov 1, 2011)

sunnyboi said:


> I read somewhere on the forum that just because the documents are colored, it doesn't work, but we have to take a copy of the documents and have it sealed by the concerned authorities. It's a bit confusing now


I have not used any notarization for ACS or State sponsorship.


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi sunnyboi, 

DIAC and ACS have slightly different rules. DIAC accepts color scans of color documents and scans of certified copies of black-and-white documents. To quote the GSM – Providing Further Information page: 



> Providing scanned copies of documents is recommended as it is faster. Scanned copies of non-certified original documents are acceptable, provided they are in colour. Black and white copies will only be accepted if they are certified copies. Scanned copies of your Police Clearance Certificates are acceptable for the processing of your application.


On the other hand *ACS* clearly states in the Skills Assessment Guidelines that they *only accept certified copies*: 



> *All documents* must be certified copies of originals and uploaded into the online application form as PDF files.


In practice some ACS assessors let it go, others request that you re-submit all documents as certified copies. Therefore it's better to get certified copies of all black-and-white documents (for the visa application) plus of everything that you need to submit to ACS. 

Cheerio, 
Monika


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## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

espresso said:


> Hi sunnyboi,
> 
> DIAC and ACS have slightly different rules. DIAC accepts color scans of color documents and scans of certified copies of black-and-white documents. To quote the GSM – Providing Further Information page:
> 
> ...


I too felt the same. Its better to certify the copies.


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## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

kulpreets said:


> Take a printout of SD on an A4 sheet and attach it to a Rs.20/- e-Stamp paper and get it notarized.
> 
> -kulpreet


Kulpreet,

You had told me to type the sd on A4 sheet. This means the stamp paper needs to be blank? Colleague needs to sign on the A4 sheet only?


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## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

This is the situation.Plz guide me. 

In my first company LMN i was a System Admin. 2yrs experience. Then switched job to Software Testing in ABC company for 4yrs and XYZ acquired ABC. Im working for 4yrs in XYZ company now. 

1.Can I count my experience together as 8yrs (ABC+XYZ)?

2.Can my Manager in ABC give me the SD? He is right now working for another company. 

3. Do i need to mention that ABC was acquired by XYZ? 

4.How will ACS assess my experience because 2yrs i was a system admin and now software tester? Will I get 10yrs Experience totally?


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## Mroks (Nov 1, 2011)

Sai2Aus said:


> This is the situation.Plz guide me.
> 
> In my first company LMN i was a System Admin. 2yrs experience. Then switched job to Software Testing in ABC company for 4yrs and XYZ acquired ABC. Im working for 4yrs in XYZ company now.
> 
> ...


Above reply in *bold*


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## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

Mroks said:


> Above reply in *bold*


OMG.. I thought 1 experience letter is enough from my previous manager. I cannot approach my present managers. My appraisal is on the way.. Everyone would hav been in this situation like me. Can u plz share ur experience??

Also what kind of document should i give for company acquisition? If i include a statement in SD like ABC was acquired by XYZ and the superior signs is it enough? 

Or Should i make it in a seperate A4 sheet and attach this with the SD itself? 

Plz someone help me.


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## pari (May 25, 2012)

1. If my 1st company refuses to give me reference letter i understand that i can get it done on 20RS stamp paper from a colleague. Should the colleague need to work presently in the same company?
The colleague need not be in the same company. If you can give some details that he was working, it will help you.

2. Should the collegue need to be in a Superior Position than me? Can the collegue be in a superior postion than me now but working for another company?
If colleague is in a superior position, it is obviously helpful

3. Do the colleague need to give any Proof that he had worked in the same company with me?
Not mandated but good to have. I got a letter from my senior and his business card.

4. It is said that all documents need to be certified? does it mean that the documents that i upload need to be attested by a government official? if so whom should i approach? 
Notary is required.


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## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

pari said:


> 1. If my 1st company refuses to give me reference letter i understand that i can get it done on 20RS stamp paper from a colleague. Should the colleague need to work presently in the same company?
> The colleague need not be in the same company. If you can give some details that he was working, it will help you.
> 
> 2. Should the collegue need to be in a Superior Position than me? Can the collegue be in a superior postion than me now but working for another company?
> ...


HI Pari,

Thanks for the reply..I got to know about this from some expats. Can u plz guide me on the below question? 



Sai2Aus said:


> This is the situation.Plz guide me.
> 
> In my first company LMN i was a System Admin. 2yrs experience. Then switched job to Software Testing in ABC company for 4yrs and XYZ acquired ABC. Im working for 4yrs in XYZ company now.
> 
> ...





Sai2Aus said:


> OMG.. I thought 1 experience letter is enough from my previous manager. I cannot approach my present managers. My appraisal is on the way.. Everyone would hav been in this situation like me. Can u plz share ur experience??
> 
> Also what kind of document should i give for company acquisition? If i include a statement in SD like ABC was acquired by XYZ and the superior signs is it enough?
> 
> ...


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## pari (May 25, 2012)

1.Can I count my experience together as 8yrs (ABC+XYZ)?
This needs to be confirmed through an agent. But as far as I know, it should be separate and you need to submit some proof stating that the company was acquired.


2.Can my Manager in ABC give me the SD? He is right now working for another company. 
yes, he can. As told earlier, it is better if he can give his old business card or his resignation letter and term of employment in the old company.

3. Do i need to mention that ABC was acquired by XYZ? 
Yes. It should not cause blockage in your application if you tell it earlier.

4.How will ACS assess my experience because 2yrs i was a system admin and now software tester? Will I get 10yrs Experience totally?
I think, they would take it as a SW tester with 8 years. Whatever it is, submit both the documents.

--------------------------
Also what kind of document should i give for company acquisition? If i include a statement in SD like ABC was acquired by XYZ and the superior signs is it enough? 
Or Should i make it in a seperate A4 sheet and attach this with the SD itself? 

I think you need to get it from the company. I will confirm with one of my friend. He had the same issue. I will get back to you this week.

As a general advise, submit all those documents which you can. It is better to provide it now rather than the CO asking for it which would kill your processing time.


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## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

Thanks a lot Pari. Im really very confused.. 

Plz enquire ur friend and let me know what document he provided for the acquisition. Also mine is a very big MNC. so getting a letter in regard to acquisition is impossible. Im right now trying to get my experience letter which itself is very tough.

A colleague of mine is now a manager in another company. but when he was working with me he was just 1level higher. Can he give me a reference letter?

Sorry for posting so many doubts. Plz help me..


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## sunnyboi (Jul 10, 2013)

@Sai2Aus-Question boils down to what occupation you are applying for your visa. Since you have 6 years as a software developer, I'm guessing, you will not be applying for System Admin. Is that correct? If that is the case, ACS will validate based on the role which you will be going for and relevant experience. The previous 2 experience will be invalid. This should also reduce the hassle of finding your old colleagues/boss and get letters from them. 

Even my company went through an acquisition. However, my old company's name still exists and also mentions in the logo and website that it went through an acquisition. Does your company's logo have that as well? It should ease the transition process, I hope. If it's a big company, a public announcement should provide additional proof, like this Quest Software's Acquisitions


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## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

sunnyboi said:


> @Sai2Aus-Question boils down to what occupation you are applying for your visa. Since you have 6 years as a software developer, I'm guessing, you will not be applying for System Admin. Is that correct? If that is the case, ACS will validate based on the role which you will be going for and relevant experience. The previous 2 experience will be invalid. This should also reduce the hassle of finding your old colleagues/boss and get letters from them.
> 
> Even my company went through an acquisition. However, my old company's name still exists and also mentions in the logo and website that it went through an acquisition. Does your company's logo have that as well? It should ease the transition process, I hope. If it's a big company, a public announcement should provide additional proof, like this Quest Software's Acquisitions


Thank you Sunnyboi..

My concern is now regarding the acquisition. My company does not mention anything on the logo or anywhere.. I can give the formal acquisition announcement made in my company's website. Will that be enough?

And getting a reference letter from my current manager.. I thought my previous manager can give the reference letter for all 8yrs.. but now as suggested by expat members i need to give separate letters. 

Plz tell me if the official announcement made in the website for acquisition can be given as a proof? Can i take a printout of that and attach to the SD and get it signed by the manager?


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## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

pari said:


> 1.Can I count my experience together as 8yrs (ABC+XYZ)?
> This needs to be confirmed through an agent. But as far as I know, it should be separate and you need to submit some proof stating that the company was acquired.
> 
> 
> ...


Im really confused as im not getting the right format for the SD.. Please help me.

Regarding the acquisition can u share ur friends experience? what kind of document did he submit? 

Should the manager be the person who I report to? or manager in some other team in my company can sign the SD? 

If the business card is not available Org chart is enough? Do the Org chart also be signed by the Manager?


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## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

Sai2Aus said:


> Im really confused as im not getting the right format for the SD.. Please help me.
> 
> Regarding the acquisition can u share ur friends experience? what kind of document did he submit?
> 
> ...


Please someone guide me..


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## sunnyboi (Jul 10, 2013)

Sai2Aus said:


> Im really confused as im not getting the right format for the SD.. Please help me.
> 
> Regarding the acquisition can u share ur friends experience? what kind of document did he submit?
> 
> ...


Looks like even I'm in your situation now, with the acquisition. My company's logo reflects that, but since this was done by another company which is not big in the market, no news about it in the media or on their site itself. Also, while getting my relieving letter, the logo is of the old company. So, would this create any problem with ACS?


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## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

sunnyboi said:


> Looks like even I'm in your situation now, with the acquisition. My company's logo reflects that, but since this was done by another company which is not big in the market, no news about it in the media or on their site itself. Also, while getting my relieving letter, the logo is of the old company. So, would this create any problem with ACS?


Senior expats only should answer our queries.. I have internet news about acquisition. My doubt is should it be included in the SD and the current manager needs to sign even that? or should i attach it as a separate document? 

If business card is not available is org chart enough?

Should the manager be the person who I report to? or manager in some other team in my company can also sign the SD?


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## ramkpoddar82 (Aug 3, 2013)

Hello,

When I requested my employer to provide me an employment letter, they are asking me the actual reason for that. Now, I do not want to let them know about my country leaving etc. Please suggest some good purpose so that it should not be a threat to my existing job.

Also, ACS asks that letter in proper format, but I am doubtful that my employer will not give all that details stating my roles & responsibilities, in that scenario, what other document I can/shoulud provide,which will be accepted by the authority easily. 

I got suggestions like: 
Get the normal employment letter from employer and support with notarised document mentioning all your roles & responsibilities as an additional document.

Please advise.

Thank you,
Ram


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi Ram, 

unfortunately you need a third-party declaration or reference letter. The ACS Skills Assessment Guide states: 



> Self-written statements submitted as a Statutory Declaration cannot be assessed. Self-references in the form of a Statutory Declaration cannot be accepted as evidence of employment. Statutory Declarations must be from a third party work colleague and signed by an authorised witness to be considered.


ACS is also very strict about the format they want the reference letters / statutory declarations in (cf. Employment Reference Example). This is reasonable because that way it will take the assessor less time to go through your documentation. You should really try to adhere to the format as closely as possible. 

Most people state "*certification*" or "application for an educational course" as reason if they don't want to inform the company about their emigration plans. Just tell them that you are interested in getting a certification from Microsoft/Oracle/IEEE/whatever and that you need to submit a reference letter in a prescribed format to get into the program or get a reduced study load due to your work experience. 

Good luck, 
Monika


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## ramkpoddar82 (Aug 3, 2013)

Dear Monika,

Thanks for your prompt response and suggestions, they are really useful. Notwithstanding, I have another doubt, if my employer mention the purpose statement at the bottom of the letterhead, will it be a concern for immigration bodies?

Regards,
Ram


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi Ram, 

no, it won't be. You can add a cover page explaining that you had to give another reason for requesting the letter because you would otherwise endanger your current job. It happens a lot, as far as I know. 

All the best, 
Monika


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## ramkpoddar82 (Aug 3, 2013)

Thanks much Monika for your response and help... .

Regards,
Ram


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## ramkpoddar82 (Aug 3, 2013)

Hello Monika,

Being as a nascent expat, I do not have any idea how to get a job there? Do we have any portals or community, which can give some idea or I can look upon the IT related job opportunities. I understand, without PR, no one will look at my resume also, but is there anything which I can step in as initiative meanwhile being my PR is in progress?

Regards,
Ram


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## espresso (Nov 2, 2012)

Hi ramkpoddar82, 

it's very hard to get a job from overseas, but you can (and should) do some groundwork to (hopefully) shorten the job hunt period in Australia. I wrote a bit about how we went about it in this post. We started applying while our visa was still being processed. 

Cheerio, 
Monika


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## bravehart (Aug 22, 2013)

*Some doubts for employment documents*

Hi,

For ACS evaluation , i wanted to know the following 
- I will be creating the Statutory declaration in India, Will the Statutory Declarations Act 1835 be valid there as well ?
- Is the business card of my manager and organizational hierarchy mandatory to be provided ? 
- My manager from my previous company has resigned and now he is working in my current company. Can he give a statutory declaration for the tenure we worked in our previous company ?
- My Another manager is still working in my previous company but he joined it after my joining date in my previous company. Is he also eligible for giving a statutory declaration for me?

Thanks !


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## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

bravehart said:


> Hi,
> 
> For ACS evaluation , i wanted to know the following
> - I will be creating the Statutory declaration in India, Will the Statutory Declarations Act 1835 be valid there as well ?
> ...


- Business card and Org Chart not mandatory but many expats here have requested to submit to make your SD strong.
-yes both managers are eligible to sign if you had reported to them.


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## coolblues (Aug 24, 2013)

Mroks said:


> Above reply in *bold*
> 
> 
> 3. Do i need to mention that ABC was acquired by XYZ?
> Yes. A separate document will come into picture stating the details


Can you please explain? Should this be a part of employment reference given by the company?

Or a separate one prepared by me

Please throw some light on this


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## coolblues (Aug 24, 2013)

Sai2Aus said:


> Plz enquire ur friend and let me know what document he provided for the acquisition. Also mine is a very big MNC. so getting a letter in regard to acquisition is impossible. Im right now trying to get my experience letter which itself is very tough.


Sai, 

Are you done with this step?

I working in Company "AAA". 
When resigned it was acquired by an another company "BBB" and was named "CCC"
CCC is now merged with BBB and now called "BBB" 

Hope its not confusing

Are you attaching a separate document


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## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

coolblues said:


> Can you please explain? Should this be a part of employment reference given by the company?
> 
> Or a separate one prepared by me
> 
> Please throw some light on this


Org chart can be prepared by yourself and attached along with the SD. Org Chart and business card are necessary only if your not getting the ref letter in company letter head.

Hope i cleared your query.


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## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

coolblues said:


> Sai,
> 
> Are you done with this step?
> 
> ...


Will tell you what I did.

My company AAA was acquired by BBB. And im still working in BBB. So in the SD i just included this line at the start of the SD.

Mr XXX was appointed as a software tester in AAA on (Date of joining). After the BBB AAA merger he continued to work for BBB without any interruptions in his service and position.

You can do the same including all acquisitions. 

I have applied for ACS.. Results are yet to come.


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## coolblues (Aug 24, 2013)

Thanks Sai. 

In one of your previous questions , Morks has replied the as below

3. Do i need to mention that ABC was acquired by XYZ? 
Yes. A separate document will come into picture stating the details

So wondering if a separate document should be attached explaining the merger and the take over?


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## Sai2Aus (Jul 17, 2013)

coolblues said:


> Thanks Sai.
> 
> In one of your previous questions , Morks has replied the as below
> 
> ...


Yes but in another thread i got a reply to just add one line. I initially thought of including the article of the merger. But was suggested thats not necessary. 

Since my manager has signed the SD which states the merger i think thats enough.

Some tips while attaching documents - 

ACS application can be saved before submitting. So open up the application and see whats all required. You have to submit files in pdf format which has to match to the ACS attachment names. So open up the application form to see those.I did the same way. there is an option to submit Org Chart. I gave the Org chart with SD.


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## coolblues (Aug 24, 2013)

Sai2Aus said:


> Yes but in another thread i got a reply to just add one line. I initially thought of including the article of the merger. But was suggested thats not necessary.
> 
> Since my manager has signed the SD which states the merger i think thats enough.
> 
> ...


Thanks Sai....!


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