# okupas squatters and security



## vsonia (May 10, 2021)

Hello! I am getting a flat in Sitges Catalunya and for now it will be empty for some months of the year for now. I hear a lot about squatters but I have also had a family flat in this same town for years with it being empty for months at a time and no issues. I am considering getting a camera or alarm for the new place because I don't know the building or the neighbors but don't want to spend lots of money on a system and would rather something low fi. does anyone have recommendations or insights on this matter?
PS I have also had locals tell me that okupas usually happen on foreclosed places and homes much more than pisos.
thank you!


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

vsonia said:


> Hello! I am getting a flat in Sitges Catalunya and for now it will be empty for some months of the year for now. I hear a lot about squatters but I have also had a family flat in this same town for years with it being empty for months at a time and no issues. I am considering getting a camera or alarm for the new place because I don't know the building or the neighbors but don't want to spend lots of money on a system and would rather something low fi. does anyone have recommendations or insights on this matter?
> PS I have also had locals tell me that okupas usually happen on foreclosed places and homes much more than pisos.
> thank you!


Expensive but state-of-the-art security system: Alarmas Securitas Direct | Securitas Direct


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

vsonia said:


> Hello! I am getting a flat in Sitges Catalunya and for now it will be empty for some months of the year for now. I hear a lot about squatters but I have also had a family flat in this same town for years with it being empty for months at a time and no issues. I am considering getting a camera or alarm for the new place because I don't know the building or the neighbors but don't want to spend lots of money on a system and would rather something low fi. does anyone have recommendations or insights on this matter?
> PS I have also had locals tell me that okupas usually happen on foreclosed places and homes much more than pisos.
> thank you!


They rarely happen in blocks where there are all year residents and it is in a busy area. Mainly it is buildings which are badly kept and in quiet seasonal areas plus , as you say , it is usually in separate places as flats means neighbours and neighbours will contact police and can get community to change central locks plus it's harder for them to connect up electricity.


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## vsonia (May 10, 2021)

kaipa said:


> They rarely happen in blocks where there are all year residents and it is in a busy area. Mainly it is buildings which are badly kept and in quiet seasonal areas plus , as you say , it is usually in separate places as flats means neighbours and neighbours will contact police and can get community to change central locks plus it's harder for them to connect up electricity.


thanks very much Kaipa...people around here talk as if it happens all the time but in actuality it does not. yet it is hard to get a handle on how often.


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## ccm47 (Oct 15, 2013)

We've set our house up with a couple of Amazon Echo Show devices connected to our router. These mean that we can open and close our electric shutters wherever we are, and also see what's happening indoors, all from our phones. A cheap and simple solution, especially if you buy on a Prime day.
The shutter movement makes it looks like we're in and the camera principally tells us if the cat is around, (she has her own flap so comes and goes at will).
I believe I read somewhere that there are around 13,000 cases of "occupadas" a year in Spain, mainly down to tenants ceasing to pay their rent.


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## vsonia (May 10, 2021)

ccm47 said:


> We've set our house up with a couple of Amazon Echo Show devices connected to our router. These mean that we can open and close our electric shutters wherever we are, and also see what's happening indoors, all from our phones. A cheap and simple solution, especially if you buy on a Prime day.
> The shutter movement makes it looks like we're in and the camera principally tells us if the cat is around, (she has her own flap so comes and goes at will).
> I believe I read somewhere that there are around 13,000 cases of "occupadas" a year in Spain, mainly down to tenants ceasing to pay their rent.


good idea! thanks so much


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## JohnJoeR (6 mo ago)

vsonia said:


> good idea! thanks so much


You can pick up a TAPO C200 camera for 40€ online. Connect it to your wifi and have 24/7 visibility if you want and it will alert you on your phone if theres any movement in its path. If you have neighbours or friends in the community then this is a cheap solution and peace of mind if nothing else.


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## vsonia (May 10, 2021)

these are great suggestions thank you!


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Its odd that people are more worried about squatters than being burgled and yet there were 30,000 burglaries in only the first 3 momths of 2022.

I'm not saying that squatting isn't a thing, but it has been jumped on and used a political issue, then used as selling point (playing on people's fears) for security systems to the point that people think it is (more) common.

I know quite a few people with holiday, or second homes in Spain, most of them have been burgled at least once, if not twice, some more. But I only know one who had sqautters, and that was before I even knew them, over 30 years ago.


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## Relyat (Sep 29, 2013)

I think that people are scared of being denied the use of their dwelling by squatters, but think that burglars will be in and out causing but a little inconvenience. 
I would advise anyone not to underestimate the effects of a burglary.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

There are some stats here on okupas by region. In the whole country in 2019 there were less than 15,000. This includes a large number of of "illegal" occupations by people who have been evicted for not paying their rent or mortgage but have nowhere else to go. It really isn't a big problem for holiday home owners, unless they are extremely unlucky. I've never come across one.






Las denuncias por 'okupación' en España, en gráficos


Las denuncias por 'okupación' en España, en gráficos




www.epdata.es


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## vsonia (May 10, 2021)

Alcalaina said:


> There are some stats here on okupas by region. In the whole country in 2019 there were less than 15,000. This includes a large number of of "illegal" occupations by people who have been evicted for not paying their rent or mortgage but have nowhere else to go. It really isn't a big problem for holiday home owners, unless they are extremely unlucky. I've never come across one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## vsonia (May 10, 2021)

So being that many here agree the squatter thing is overblown but the perhaps burglary is not, if I have to leave my flat unoccupied for a few months at a time, do you recommend an alarm? I don't plan to leave any valuables.


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## trotter58 (Feb 8, 2017)

JohnJoeR said:


> You can pick up a TAPO C200 camera for 40€ online. Connect it to your wifi and have 24/7 visibility if you want and it will alert you on your phone if theres any movement in its path. If you have neighbours or friends in the community then this is a cheap solution and peace of mind if nothing else.


We have these (Tapo C200) combined with Tapo smart plugs to switch on lights etc. Both will work with Alexa, which we've also set up with a barking dog alarm.
Available on Amazon.es (https://www.amazon.es/dp/B07XLML2YS/) and (https://www.amazon.es/TP-Link-Tapo-P100-Inteligente-Concentrador/dp/B07Z5JD3T4/)

You can't beat good neighbours though.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

trotter58 said:


> You can't beat good neighbours though.


Yep. we are in a stairwell of six flats, the one opposite us is owned by a couple who only visit twice a year, I keep an eye out and check the mailbox.
Next set of stairs from us the bottom flat is empty now, the owners did 90 days so wont be back this year. I walk round ever couple of days.

We know both sets of owners and offered just to keep a look out.
The village has old properties and a couple of newish blocks and we all seem to get along, I can't count the number of times I have to say Hola everyday. 

Its not easy to get into our block, electronic entry via buzzer or key, key to get in underground car park. Yet the new German owners of the flat below us have fitted a wonderful alarm connected to a security firm.
Its gone off three times in the last month (once might have been my fault as I dropped something heavy on the floor). They arrived the other day and asked me why it keeps going off as they pay for someone to come out and check..

My answer was because someone comes out to check, you pay.....

I think here in Spain its no different to any other country where people leave properties unattended.
And you run the same risk of burglary when visiting here when your home is empty, but has your main home got a security system?

Id suggest getting to know any neighbours and at the minimum giving contact details. 
Oh and don't forget a small present next time you visit, after that you will be surprised how many others will be looking out for you (its what we did when first purchased the flat)


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## vsonia (May 10, 2021)

Barriej said:


> Yep. we are in a stairwell of six flats, the one opposite us is owned by a couple who only visit twice a year, I keep an eye out and check the mailbox.
> Next set of stairs from us the bottom flat is empty now, the owners did 90 days so wont be back this year. I walk round ever couple of days.
> 
> We know both sets of owners and offered just to keep a look out.
> ...


yes, awesome advice! thank you so much


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

You need to think about what will happen if you have an alarm and you are burgled. Some people I know had a top of the range Securitas alarm in their second home in the countryside.
If the alarm was triggered the company would call them to ask if they, or anyone authorised was in the house. If the answer was no, they would send a patrol to take a look.

They never really knew where that patrol would set out from, but assuming it was from the closest town, and that there was a patrol idle and waiting a call, it would have been around 40 minutes until they got there. If anything suspicious was found by the patrol, the police would be notified.

Burglers know this, and spend a calculated maximum of time in the house, they rely on the fact that private security guards are low paid, often poorly trained and are not going to risk their wellbeing protecting a stranger's home, and that the police are too busy to attand a domestic burglary.

I'm sure they do have some effect as deterrents, and it does give the owners peace of mind and that is what you are buying.

Another couple I know simply don't have a TV in their weekend house after haviong two stolen in burglaries. That's all they took both times, the repairs to the doors and windows actually cost more that than the value of the stolen TVs.


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## Relyat (Sep 29, 2013)

Where I was nobody had an alarm. 
They were 90+% Spanish and of those mostly second home owners. The prevailing attitude was that they didn't keep anything of value there. 
The full timers considered that the response times for alarm companies and Police /Guardia would allow any burglar to be in and out and clear away.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Before I lived in Spain permanently we had an apartment that was never used apart from a few weeks in summer. It was burgled at least twice. Nothing of value taken except tv. Problem was we always had to get shutters fixed. It was an attico so access was quite easy. Plus there were many holiday flats in building. Occupied buildings are less prone for burglary obviously. As others have said the best is to have someone check flat every now and again but be prepared to compensate them for this. Don't get an alarm. No one will come and it just keeps everyone awake at night to the point that everyone hates you and no doubt wishes you were robbed in first place


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## Joey Testa (Jan 5, 2021)

The problem of okupas is much worse in Catalonia than in other areas.


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## CltFlyboy (Feb 11, 2020)

Joey Testa said:


> The problem of okupas is much worse in Catalonia than in other areas.


Yes but which parts of Cataluña specifically? Are the smaller areas at the far reaches of the province as susceptible to okupas as, say, Barcelona?


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## dancingspider (Mar 4, 2018)

Wouldn't live in Catalonia anyway!

Their heads are full of that independence nonsense!


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## CltFlyboy (Feb 11, 2020)

dancingspider said:


> Wouldn't live in Catalonia anyway!
> 
> Their heads are full of that independence nonsense!


I'd appreciate a serious answer to my question. I appreciate your disdain of the area, but there are many people who are looking to move into that area and would welcome empirical data on this.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

CltFlyboy said:


> I'd appreciate a serious answer to my question. I appreciate your disdain of the area, but there are many people who are looking to move into that area and would welcome empirical data on this.



Google would be your friend here, 20 sec of searching gives this









<span style='color:#780948'>ARCHIVED</span> - The number of homes being squatted in Murcia increased by 60.6 per cent in 2021


<span Style='color:#780948'>archived</span> - The Number Of Homes Being Squatted In Murcia Increased By 60.6 Per Cent In 2021 Keep up with the Latest News In English Murcia Costa Calida Spain




murciatoday.com




.

Or even here.


https://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/2021/07/02/squatter-problem-much-bigger-in-catalonia-than-in-other-spanish-regions-latest-figures-confirm/



The one above suggests that in 2020 almost half of the squatters were in Catalonia with the other provinces sharing the rest.

just for fun (as I like to be funny).
Squatting figures for the Uk.

Well there are no government figures in the UK but supposedly in 2010 there were around 20,000 cases, so lets say in 2021 30,000.

So Uk population 2021 59,597,300 (England 56,489,800) approx 30,000 cases of squatter.
Spain population 2021 47,394,223 and 14,890 cases of squatters

Population densities should be one of the factors seeing as the more people crowded into an area would suggest those who were disadvantaged (homeless) would be more likely to squat and I was amused by these.

Spain 95 per Km2
Uk 278 per Km2
USA 36 per Km2.

For me its just one of those things you have to weigh up (although I've never even bothered to think about it before and wont again) when we move.

Just my 2c


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## dancingspider (Mar 4, 2018)

CltFlyboy said:


> I'd appreciate a serious answer to my question. I appreciate your disdain of the area, but there are many people who are looking to move into that area and would welcome empirical data on this.


It was a serious comment!

Furthermore, there is nothing per se wrong with the area. In fact, I think the area is super. It really does tick all the boxes... Airports with connections across Europe and in fact worldwide, good transport infrastructure (trains, metro, busses and roads), Barcelona is super vibrant city, to the north it has charm and you have one type of landscape and character and then to the south it is quite different but equally attractive with small villages and excellent spots like Sitges.

The 'problem' is the people who for some confused reason think they have some right to independence and thereby spoil the karma there, for me anyway.

So I repeat, my reply was on topic and you incorrectly assumed i was referred to a dislike of the area, which is incorrect, it is in fact with a very vocal proportion of the people who life there.


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## vsonia (May 10, 2021)

dancingspider said:


> It was a serious comment!
> 
> Furthermore, there is nothing per se wrong with the area. In fact, I think the area is super. It really does tick all the boxes... Airports with connections across Europe and in fact worldwide, good transport infrastructure (trains, metro, busses and roads), Barcelona is super vibrant city, to the north it has charm and you have one type of landscape and character and then to the south it is quite different but equally attractive with small villages and excellent spots like Sitges.
> 
> ...


yes, but we were talking about okupas, not the independence issue...lol
Anyway I love those Catalans...lots of variety among them, in no way a monolith. Sitges is awesome and just want opinions on how to handle my at times empty flat there. 
Thanks for all the helpful comments!!


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## dancingspider (Mar 4, 2018)

Yes, let's put the topic of independence aside.

In summary, if you have a standalone property the risk is higher than a apartment block that has folks there all round, and that represent the two extremes. If you have deeper pockets you can get a property with security on a front gate which keep the riff raff out.

However, for peace of mind I would not consider having a property in Spain without a CCTV system in place. You will also have to have an internet connection to view the property online.

You can get very affordable DVR and camera systems now that are quite easy to install. Go for a wireless system where you only have to supply power to the cameras. The modern systems are easy to install and get up and running, but you will need to be a bit of a techie to do this. Not sure what you normal job is or if you work from home when you are in the UK or what but you can simply view your property 24/7 from either from your phone or your PC. Trust me it is the way to go and I do it, but I'm surrounded by a pile of monitors, some for work, some for my private PC and then one monitor for view of 9 CCTV cameras which monitor the property 24/7 are motion detection triggered for recording. What bugs me most are the cobwebs, spiders, birds flying about, cats, foxes, plants blowing in the window which cash a shadow which moves and creepy crawlies that all trigger recording.


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## CltFlyboy (Feb 11, 2020)

You all missed the essence of my question entirely. I've read the statistics about Okupas in Barcelona etc. and I think I have a good understanding of the problem. And the politics/decision to live there were not part of the question. I'm talking about the* far reaches of the province* - not in any large city. Finding stats for a *specific area/town* is not easy. And I'd like real empirical first-hand knowledge if possible.

Here, I'll make it easier:
Does anyone have experience with the Okupas problem in cities like L'Ametla del Mar, L'Ampolla, La Rapita?

These are almost in Valencia province, pretty far from the big cities. I'd think that the problem/chances of Okupas there would be very diluted compared to big cities, but I'm not sure. I would honestly, truly appreciate any feedback here from those with experience/knowledge of those areas.

I work in high tech, I run my own security infrastructure here in the States. I'll do the same when I buy our property in Spain as well as hire a security firm for drive bys/visits. 

Thanks,
--H


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## Joey Testa (Jan 5, 2021)

Okupas are EVERYWHERE in Catalyuna. It is not just a Bracelona problem. Gypsys are often behind the illegal occupation of properties so where you have more gypsies you have more risk. Sitges is an expensive town so probably less likelihood of okupas there.
The problem is linked to the independence issue as pro-independence politicians do not wish to cooperate with the justice system.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

In Catalunya, 17 out of every 10,000 dwellings are affected by okupas, that's 0.002%. Worse than other regions yes, but not a deterrent to buying property. I'm sure there are political reasons but surely the high rents and spiralling numbers of holiday lets in city centres must also be a factor.








Estos son los datos de la okupación en España: Cataluña, Canarias y Baleares, las comunidades que más registran


Por su carácter clandestino es difícil conocer con total certeza cuántas viviendas hay okupadas a escala nacional. Pero hay algunos indicadores, como las denuncias, que revelan cómo está la situación. Te las contamos con detalle.




www.lasexta.com


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## Joey Testa (Jan 5, 2021)

That stat is complete nonsense. If there is an okupa in a building then all other residents are affected by the anti social behaviour. There is always the constant worry that you could be next.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Joey Testa said:


> That stat is complete nonsense. If there is an okupa in a building then all other residents are affected by the anti social behaviour. There is always the constant worry that you could be next.


You make the assumption that squatters are automatically guilty of antisocial behaviour. Did you know that many of them improve the dwellings they are living in, which might have been empty for years? Or that they might have lived there perfectly legally and are now denounced as squatters because for whatever reason they can no longer pay the rent or mortgage? The real criminals are the property speculators who buy up blocks and then push up the rents so tenants leave, and they can convert them to holiday lets. Personally I'd rather live next door to a family of okupas than an Airbnb flat with holiday-makers partying all night.


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## dancingspider (Mar 4, 2018)

Alcalaina said:


> You make the assumption that squatters are automatically guilty of antisocial behaviour. Did you know that many of them improve the dwellings they are living in, which might have been empty for years? Or that they might have lived there perfectly legally and are now denounced as squatters because for whatever reason they can no longer pay the rent or mortgage? The real criminals are the property speculators who buy up blocks and then push up the rents so tenants leave, and they can convert them to holiday lets. Personally I'd rather live next door to a family of okupas than an Airbnb flat with holiday-makers partying all night.


Which planet do you live on?


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## CltFlyboy (Feb 11, 2020)

Alcalaina said:


> You make the assumption that squatters are automatically guilty of antisocial behaviour. Did you know that many of them improve the dwellings they are living in, which might have been empty for years? Or that they might have lived there perfectly legally and are now denounced as squatters because for whatever reason they can no longer pay the rent or mortgage? The real criminals are the property speculators who buy up blocks and then push up the rents so tenants leave, and they can convert them to holiday lets. Personally I'd rather live next door to a family of okupas than an Airbnb flat with holiday-makers partying all night.


Meanwhile there are people like me: I'm going to buy a property in the near future that I will visit several months at a time, the rest of the time it will be empty, until we relocate fully. As it will be vacant, I worry about the Okupas problem. And in reality, if someone owns a piece of property isn't it usually considered wrong for others to claim it for themselves, regardless of the ownership? I agree that there are problems with companies buying speculative properties that price locals out, but what amounts to stealing those is not the right way to handle this. And I for one wouldn't want a thief like this living next door to me, no matter how nice they kept the property.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

dancingspider said:


> Which planet do you live on?


Possibly the same one as me...

We have a family of squatters in the next block to ours, I didn't actually know they were until the nice but irritating German woman who lives in the next stairwell from us told me. 
She warned me not to leave my car unlocked as she had seen the son 'looking guilty' down in the garage. (shame the car has no roof or doors so I can't lock it).
In fact the family have fallen on hard times and the dad lost his job, they only moved here a couple of months ago, they now cannot pay the rent and are struggling.
Ive never had a problem with them and my wife talks to the lady all the time, her English is far better than our Spanish and they are a lovely family, in fact the guilty looking son helped me move some rubish from the parking space of my neighbours and I had trouble getting him to accept a drink for his help.

Unless you know someones circumstances you shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush.

And as Ive said previously, having the property occupied by squatters was not even something I considered when we originally purchased the flat (and its not even something that crossed my mind at any of the multiple times we moved in the UK either). 

My conclusion would be that, if anyone is at all concerned about this or anything else that may (and its a very small may) happen when leaving your second home (lucky you) empty, then maybe having a second home in a crime ridden, squatter infested hell hole may not be for you...

But thats my 2c anyway.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Barriej said:


> And as Ive said previously, having the property occupied by squatters was not even something I considered when we originally purchased the flat (and its not even something that crossed my mind at any of the multiple times we moved in the UK either).


And of course it has long happened in the UK & throughout the world!


In the 1980s I worked with a girl who I discovered was squatting in the flat in which she lived.

She, her future husband, & some fellow squatters had made improvements to this run down, previously unliveable property. They paid utilities - no idea how they got them connected, but no rent to the owner - who I believe had no idea that they were there.

Imagine our surprise when we were invited to the wedding - at her parents' home. It wasn't 'quite' a mansion, but it did have lots of bedrooms, huge grounds... and a swimming pool...


After their caribbean honeymoon they returned to live in the squat.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Alcalaina said:


> You make the assumption that squatters are automatically guilty of antisocial behaviour. Did you know that many of them improve the dwellings they are living in, which might have been empty for years? Or that they might have lived there perfectly legally and are now denounced as squatters because for whatever reason they can no longer pay the rent or mortgage? The real criminals are the property speculators who buy up blocks and then push up the rents so tenants leave, and they can convert them to holiday lets. Personally I'd rather live next door to a family of okupas than an Airbnb flat with holiday-makers partying all night.


Quite true. There are squatters in the building where I work. It was an unused flat. They seem perfectly pleasant and always greet me politely and my boss who lives there says no one liked the owner anyway as they refused to pay the community fees so now he has to contend with people making his life difficult. Kind of karma!!


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## Donabate55$ (5 d ago)

We have just been informed our small house on a complex in Torrevieja has squatters!! They are only there about a month. They even have the electric and water turned back on. We visit each summer for a month and are in real shock. It is going to cost us a lot of money now to start the evection process. It really is appaling!! But I suppose it happens everywhere.


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## 1kaipa (Jul 20, 2019)

Donabate55$ said:


> We have just been informed our small house on a complex in Torrevieja has squatters!! They are only there about a month. They even have the electric and water turned back on. We visit each summer for a month and are in real shock. It is going to cost us a lot of money now to start the evection process. It really is appaling!! But I suppose it happens everywhere.


First you or a representative should go to the place. Very often they will simply leave once someone challenges them. They rarely apply the law quite simply because the Guardia civil will come and demand access and can make life very difficult for them especially if there are any drugs present. They are there simply because no one is hassling them. Another thing to do is go with a locksmith when they are not there and simply change the locks. Once you are in they can not do anything. I wouldn't worry too much you will get the place back without needing to go to court etc that is more the case with sitting tenants than okupas


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## Joey Testa (Jan 5, 2021)

1kaipa said:


> First you or a representative should go to the place. Very often they will simply leave once someone challenges them. They rarely apply the law quite simply because the Guardia civil will come and demand access and can make life very difficult for them especially if there are any drugs present. They are there simply because no one is hassling them. Another thing to do is go with a locksmith when they are not there and simply change the locks. Once you are in they can not do anything. I wouldn't worry too much you will get the place back without needing to go to court etc that is more the case with sitting tenants than okupas


if it were so easy it would not be a problem


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