# Renting Flat in Barcelona - Extortionate Agency Fees



## uk_ukraine

So, I am currently looking online for flats to rent in Barcelona.
Have found some Air BnB types of site, but ideally want to go and view some flats before committing to anything.

So have found quite a few Barcelona based estate agents. Properties are great, and the prices for rent are far cheaper than I thought they would be to be honest.

However, the agency fees I am being quoted are the most I've ever seen - and I've rented in major cities all over the world!

For example: a flat, in the centre, rent is €1500 pm. First and last which is obviously standard worldwide. Agency fees: €2800.
What. The. F***!?

Can I ask, is this common practice in Spain/Barcelona?
And if it isn't, does anyone have any hook ups where I can rent and pay an agency fee more in line with planet earth?


----------



## snikpoh

uk_ukraine said:


> So, I am currently looking online for flats to rent in Barcelona.
> Have found some Air BnB types of site, but ideally want to go and view some flats before committing to anything.
> 
> So have found quite a few Barcelona based estate agents. Properties are great, and the prices for rent are far cheaper than I thought they would be to be honest.
> 
> However, the agency fees I am being quoted are the most I've ever seen - and I've rented in major cities all over the world!
> 
> For example: a flat, in the centre, rent is €1500 pm. First and last which is obviously standard worldwide. Agency fees: €2800.
> What. The. F***!?
> 
> Can I ask, is this common practice in Spain/Barcelona?
> And if it isn't, does anyone have any hook ups where I can rent and pay an agency fee more in line with planet earth?



Just a couple of points.

Spain doesn't operate a "first and last" rental system. What you pay (by law) is one months rental in advance and one months rental as a security deposit. This deposit SHOULD be lodged in an approved scheme (escrow account) or you may never see it again.

Normally, agents fees are one months rent. This is either split between you and the landlord or is entirely down to the tenant.

Make sure any contract is in Spanish (and English if you need), is NOT for 11 months, is NOT a temporary one (should reference the LAU) and details who's responsible for maintenance etc.

Best of luck


----------



## xabiaxica

While I agree that the equivalent of one month rent is 'standard', there are no regulations in place regarding agent fees.

So basically they can charge as much as they choose to. 

One agent in my town charges the equivalent of 50% of the monthly rent, most charge the equivalent of a month rent, but some seem to make it up as they go along & pick some random figure out of the air, as I discovered when I decided to move just over a year ago.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Is it something you can negotiate, I mean you go to an agency to enquire, you ask about fees and say "Sorry, that's too expensive for me", would they then say they would be able to offer a lower rate?


----------



## snikpoh

Pesky Wesky said:


> Is it something you can negotiate, I mean you go to an agency to enquire, you ask about fees and say "Sorry, that's too expensive for me", would they then say they would be able to offer a lower rate?


As a landlord, I've tried negotiating a lower rate with my agent (I pay 1 months rent as does the tenant) - no way. They have a monopoly in town!


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Is it something you can negotiate, I mean you go to an agency to enquire, you ask about fees and say "Sorry, that's too expensive for me", would they then say they would be able to offer a lower rate?


It's worth a try!

I didn't have any luck negotiating when I was looking last year.

Some agents were also insisting upon a three month deposit. When I pointed out to them that this was contrary to the LAU, one just said 'That's what the owner wants & we have to do what the owner wants'. I replied that surely as a professional they should be advising the owner of their legal position, they didn't care.

A couple seemed to not even know what the LAU was... needless to say none of those got my business. 

Even the one I did use in the end, tried to get me to sign a badly translated contract. The Spanish & therefore the actual contract was fine. But in the English version there were 'illegal' clauses, which a newbie who spoke no Spanish might have fallen for, costing them money.


----------



## expat16

uk_ukraine said:


> So, I am currently looking online for flats to rent in Barcelona.
> Have found some Air BnB types of site, but ideally want to go and view some flats before committing to anything.
> 
> So have found quite a few Barcelona based estate agents. Properties are great, and the prices for rent are far cheaper than I thought they would be to be honest.
> 
> However, the agency fees I am being quoted are the most I've ever seen - and I've rented in major cities all over the world!
> 
> For example: a flat, in the centre, rent is €1500 pm. First and last which is obviously standard worldwide. Agency fees: €2800.
> What. The. F***!?
> 
> Can I ask, is this common practice in Spain/Barcelona?
> And if it isn't, does anyone have any hook ups where I can rent and pay an agency fee more in line with planet earth?


Unfortunately it seems to be the norm for decent properties in Barcelona. Both agencies I've rented from so far have charged 10% of annual rent + 21% VAT.

This type of fee is illegal in Netherlands, UK, Germany etc. That is, it has been deemed illegal if you didn't hire the agent but simply found the apt online and it was the owner who contacted the agent for placement of the ad. Some amount may be charged to the tenant but it must be in line with the actual services rendered, like say 200-400 EUR for preparing the rental contract.

The law in my view will change in Spain eventually, I myself hope to soon start organizing a group or something to advocate towards this change. The mayor of Barcelona seems interested in addressing the current problems in the rental market.


----------



## uk_ukraine

snikpoh said:


> Just a couple of points.
> 
> Spain doesn't operate a "first and last" rental system. What you pay (by law) is one months rental in advance and one months rental as a security deposit. This deposit SHOULD be lodged in an approved scheme (escrow account) or you may never see it again.
> 
> Normally, agents fees are one months rent. This is either split between you and the landlord or is entirely down to the tenant.
> 
> Make sure any contract is in Spanish (and English if you need), is NOT for 11 months, is NOT a temporary one (should reference the LAU) and details who's responsible for maintenance etc.
> 
> Best of luck


Thanks for info. I was a little slack with my description, but yes, the places I am seeing is 1 months deposit, and then one months rent upfront. The deposits are supposed to stay in escrow and incur interest as well in UK, but it rarely happens that way.


----------



## uk_ukraine

xabiachica said:


> While I agree that the equivalent of one month rent is 'standard', there are no regulations in place regarding agent fees.
> 
> So basically they can charge as much as they choose to.
> 
> One agent in my town charges the equivalent of 50% of the monthly rent, most charge the equivalent of a month rent, but some seem to make it up as they go along & pick some random figure out of the air, as I discovered when I decided to move just over a year ago.


Yes, 50% I could go with. It's pretty much the same I've paid in agents fees in UK, Germany, USA and even Ukraine! As soon as I start looking into Spain, it's pushing 200% in some cases!!!


----------



## uk_ukraine

Pesky Wesky said:


> Is it something you can negotiate, I mean you go to an agency to enquire, you ask about fees and say "Sorry, that's too expensive for me", would they then say they would be able to offer a lower rate?


I've just tried this weekend negotiating with one agent. 
I asked for an appointment to go view, and he then proceeded to tell me the rent is €1400pm, and the agents fee is €1800.
I flat out told him I won't pay that, and can we meet somewhere in the middle, around €1000, and I would still consider that 'too much'. 

He just said: "welcome to Barcelona".

At that point, I decided to come here to find out if I should search for an agents with lower fees, or am I going to get this over inflated price everywhere I go in Barcelona? It's close to daylight robbery for the actually amount these people need to do, and considering the landlords are also probably paying through the nose to list with them.

Feels like there is a market in Barca for an agent to open up, advertise properties, and charge a fair 50% in fees. They would be mobbed with business!!!


----------



## alpinist

Barcelona is notorious for pricing out its own residents, I'm sure there's a story at least once a month on the news about a family there that can't afford to move because of the fees involved. 

I remember seeing quotes like this when we considered San Sebastian, but some of them wanted two months upfront in addition to the rest! It reminded me of the southern French model of fleecing the tenant as much as possible so I put it down to proximity to the border! 

Here, in western Castille y Leon, we paid a month upfront, month security and half a month to the agent. The owner pays the agent a half month too, so that's their commission covered. These things seem to be governed by the practice of the majority of agents in the town though, as only an hour or so east of us in the next city the tenant has to pay the full month. As you say, perhaps if one had a tenant-friendlier policy and got more business then the others would follow. I imagine it's a taxi-driver like cartel though, and the sellers' market in Barcelona will see them keep the power.


----------



## Williams2

Tell me - just out of interest - are there any significant moves to cut out the middleman in Spain,
namely the Agency, with online sites offering letting services to Landlords ?
Just like what most Landlords and Tenants would prefer to do in the UK on sites like Rightmove,
Gumtree etc.

Most Landlords and Tenants would prefer to cutout the middleman


----------



## xabiaxica

Williams2 said:


> Tell me - just out of interest - are there any significant moves to cut out the middleman in Spain,
> namely the Agency, with online sites offering letting services to Landlords ?
> Just like what most Landlords and Tenants would prefer to do in the UK on sites like Rightmove,
> Gumtree etc.
> 
> Most Landlords and Tenants would prefer to cutout the middleman


Lots of people rent directly from the owner.


----------



## uk_ukraine

If I can rent directly from the owner, and cut out the agent, I think at this point I would.
That said, I can't really find any website like the ones I know if in the UK where this would be possible.

I have found your kind of 'rightmove' websites, that are just really search engines for rentals in Barca, but even then they point only to the agents website.

I have managed to get in touch with some owners direct, but only via website similar to AirBnB, but for longer terms. These website are online only really, and I have to book and pay before seeing the flats. I'm considering this as "plan b".

I know I'm gonna end up paying one of these agents, and then hating myself for the rest of my life. 

I'm a web designer by trade. I'm considering building a website for tenants to host their listings on, just so I can make contact with some landlords direct. Let's call this "plan c".


----------



## growurown

uk_ukraine said:


> I'm a web designer by trade. I'm considering building a website for tenants to host their listings on, just so I can make contact with some landlords direct. Let's call this "plan c".


There are already things called "apps" that do this.. websites are so 1900s & early 2000s...


----------



## alpinist

uk_ukraine said:


> i have managed to get in touch with some owners direct, but only via website similar to airbnb, but for longer terms.* these website are online only really, and i have to book and pay before seeing the flats. *



scam!!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Try
https://www.vibbo.com/alquiler-de-pisos-barcelona-capital/?sort_by=2&od=2&rrs=2
These are, I think , mostly ads directly from the owner. 

Also there is a system operated in Barcelana, or a least there used to be, where the town hall acts as a kind of middle man between owners and renters (they guarantee that the owners get their money and make sure the renters get a fair deal too)... You could try finding out about that too


----------



## uk_ukraine

_Si_ said:


> scam!!


Not really. The money goes into escrow. They are airbnb type sites, which are the same. You can't go and view Airbnb places either, you just book online. 
I didn't mean literally send someone the money before hand. I meant just book online - no viewings.


----------



## uk_ukraine

growurown said:


> There are already things called "apps" that do this.. websites are so 1900s & early 2000s...


More power to you. 
Apps are not for me for important things. 
They're more for p***ing about on games and facebook.


----------



## Overandout

The only agency I have ever used (both as a tenant and as a landlord) is the town hall official agency.

No hidden / extortionate costs, free insurance for the landlord for the first 12 months, obligatory lodging of the deposit in the town hall's account, protection against illegal price increases / evictions etc.

In my opinion, any landlord who won't use these official agencies are out to rip off the tenant or hacienda or both.

My experience is of Madrid, but a very similar thing seems to exist in Barca.

http://habitatge.barcelona/borsa-pisos/?page=cercador


----------



## uk_ukraine

Didn't know this town hall option at all. This is why these forums are invaluable! 
I suppose it's not an online system, and I will have to go down there to have a look? Luckily, my wife and I are going to Barca on Wednesday to look at flats for 7 days. So I will be going down to the town hall on day 1!


----------



## Overandout

I think, sadly, that there are not many landlords who use this system, so supply may be quite limited.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

uk_ukraine said:


> Didn't know this town hall option at all. This is why these forums are invaluable!
> I suppose it's not an online system, and I will have to go down there to have a look? Luckily, my wife and I are going to Barca on Wednesday to look at flats for 7 days. So I will be going down to the town hall on day 1!


 I have just found the link to it, took a while...
http://habitatge.barcelona/borsa-pisos/?page=cercador


Not sure if you have to have been living in Barca for a while ....


----------



## Overandout

Pesky Wesky said:


> I have just found the link to it, took a while...
> http://habitatge.barcelona/borsa-pisos/?page=cercador
> 
> 
> Not sure if you have to have been living in Barca for a while ....




Isn't that the same link as I posted?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Overandout said:


> Isn't that the same link as I posted?


I don't know, haven't seen your post, Sorry if it's repeated!


----------



## uk_ukraine

Yeah it is, appreciate you both taking the time! 
You ever make a radical decision and end up going to Ukraine, hit me up!

My first bit of advice would be: don't!


----------



## uk_ukraine

Update: In Spain now. Looked at around 8 apartments. Every single agency is charging 10% of the yearly rent as a fee, and almost everyone is asking for 2 months as a deposit. The flat we are looking at and like is €1500 pm. So that is 3x 1500 = 4500 + 1800 for agency fees. Simply horrific. Unfortunately, the town hall option just didn't have anything for us. We've tried our best, but cannot see a way around these fees and double deposit payments.


----------



## snikpoh

uk_ukraine said:


> Update: In Spain now. Looked at around 8 apartments. Every single agency is charging 10% of the yearly rent as a fee, and almost everyone is asking for 2 months as a deposit. The flat we are looking at and like is €1500 pm. So that is 3x 1500 = 4500 + 1800 for agency fees. Simply horrific. Unfortunately, the town hall option just didn't have anything for us. We've tried our best, but cannot see a way around these fees and double deposit payments.


If you end up having to pay 2 months deposit, insist you do this on the basis that it's put into an approved account (escrow) - in fact, get this added to the contract! Then you may stand a chance of getting your deposit back.


----------



## expat16

I believe more than 1 month's deposit is illegal unless the place is furnished. I know the agencies don't care anyway...in my case-an unfurnished apt- I told the agent that 2 months is illegal and she just shrugged her shoulders and reiterated that that was what the owner wanted. 

Anyway, I asked the agent to ask the owner whether she would agree to only one month's rent and she did.


----------



## expat16

(Unable to edit my post above) Just wanted to add that they will also charge 21% tax on top of those 1800.

It's a nightmare, I rented my first apt here under those conditions only to have to move out a few months later and pay the ridiculous agency fees again due to neighbor who watched at least 7 hours a day of TV on a loud surround sound system Every. Single. Day. (allegedly deaf retired man).


----------



## snikpoh

expat16 said:


> I believe more than 1 month's deposit is illegal unless the place is furnished. I know the agencies don't care anyway...in my case-an unfurnished apt- I told the agent that 2 months is illegal and she just shrugged her shoulders and reiterated that that was what the owner wanted.
> 
> Anyway, I asked the agent to ask the owner whether she would agree to only one month's rent and she did.


It's NOT illegal. It's just that the law states it should be one month - this can be increased by mutual consent.

There is NO difference between furnished and un-furnished regarding the deposit (according to the LAU).


----------

