# Moving to Spain/CDS



## pompeyman (Mar 3, 2013)

Hi All,
I am new to this forum and can see that a lot of people ask similar questions but I am going to ask anyway and put my own specific requirements in. We are 52 year old married couple with a joint pre tax pension income of £26k.Will have up to £225k to buy a property.Would like a country property with land and hope to be a bit self sufficient,nothing to extensive.Probably inland a bit but close enough to expats that we are not cut off.Is £26k a year enough to live reasonably and where would anyone recommend.Also any good websites for property?


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

pompeyman said:


> We are 52 year old married couple with a joint pre tax pension income of £26k.Will have up to £225k to buy a property.


Firstly, welcome.

Blimey, you did alright dincha! Retiring at 52 with a decent annuity, alright for some.

First thing I need to say is ...start doing your research. Find out if Spain is really where you want to be. With that kind of financial muscle behind you, the world's your oyster.

Secondly, as you may or may not know, Spain is in economic turmoil at the moment and no-one really knows what's going to happen either with Spain itself or the EU or even with the UK, and I haven't even mentioned the Spanish property market yet! No-one really knows what will ultimately happen to that either.

My advice to you at this moment in time, and it's not advice given on a whim, I've done an enormous amount of research on the UK, Spain, property markets and world economy and finance is to rent a property in Spain for the moment. 

It would take a very brave man indeed who bought in the Spanish property market at this time.

If I were in your shoes, I'd buy a property in the UK in and around London and the South East and rent it out for income as putting money in the bank will simply be eroded by inflation and I'd rent a property in Spain. For up to €1,000 a month you could rent a pretty impressive property in Spain, even €500-700 would get somewhere nice.

My advice is definitely rent. It gives you many options, to pack up and get out if you want to, to explore the place and see where you'd like to be and if you like it there. You can get some pretty nice long term rentals at the moment and given this market you can negotiate a very good deal.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Pompeyman, rent don't buy.

I found myself a very similar situation some years ago when I was 53. I rented at first and eventually bought some 200 miles west and on a completely different island to my first choice.

Cannot really comment about the Costa del Sol, but with your finances, here in the Canary Islands you would be in the pound seats.

Best of luck

Hepa


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

You could easily manage on your income, and would get a nice country property for your money!


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Definitely rent first and plan for up to five years because that way you will give yourself the very best chance of finding the right property for you in the right place.


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## pompeyman (Mar 3, 2013)

Thanks for the replies so far.Its CDS we are looking at,I know it reasonably well from several Golf Holidays over the years staying in a friends apt in Estepona.Although I havn't been for a while.We are both coming out next month to Benelmedena for a recce.If we rent who is liable for local taxes? How much are what we call "council tax" and any idea how much income tax we would pay on joint £26k a year.


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## pablosho (Jul 11, 2007)

Hola Pompeyman,

I won't tell you what to do with your money but renting is a wise idea. Research you areas and make a list of all your needs and desires and everything you don't want. That should narrow down your areas of interest, visit those areas and then live (rent) in them for a while and go in search of properties that meet your requirements.

As for areas, I am biased but if you like a micro-climate with countryside, mountains and glorious beaches, look up Cadiz province and Costa de la Luz.

For properties try keyro.com

Best of luck


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

We live very near to Estepona. Yes, you can live on £26k a year...depending on what kind of property you rent. For around 1500 - 2000 euros a month you can rent a nice house with pool, for around 600 euros upwards a two bed two bath apartment probably with communal pool and gardens.

It depends on your tastes. We are living in a large house with pool and enjoying ot but we intend to downsize in a couple of years and move into EStepona which is a really lovely place to live: quiet, Spanish, in easy reach of two airports.

There is a vast choice of rental accommodation here, from apartments in mainly British immigrant gated communities or houses in 'ordinary' Spanish streets. Everyday living is more expensive than inland or further up the coast but imo the benefits far outweigh the extra costs.

We sold all our properties in the UK and elsewhere and have no desire to buy. We brought our furniture and goods and chattels from the UK and rent unfurnished. I would most definitely do as other posters advise and rent...after all, you may find that Spain is not where you wish to be forever.

I thought we's spend the rest of our days in Prague but after three years I was glad to leave. Had we followed advice from well-meaning friends we would most likely still be stuck there with nsaleable property. When we arrived in Spain we lived in an adosado then a piso, both not for us as we weren't used to living in such close proximity to others. Because we were renting, moving on was easy. We shall stay in our current house for a while longer, then it's a call to AGS or Pickfords...Not so easy if we'd bought.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

pompeyman said:


> Thanks for the replies so far.Its CDS we are looking at,I know it reasonably well from several Golf Holidays over the years staying in a friends apt in Estepona.Although I havn't been for a while.We are both coming out next month to Benelmedena for a recce.If we rent who is liable for local taxes? How much are what we call "council tax" and any idea how much income tax we would pay on joint £26k a year.


Can't see if anyone answered this question.

Sometimes the rental price includes IBI (council tax) and sometimes not. Best to check any rental agreement carefully. The amount varies by area, property etc.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

pompeyman said:


> Thanks for the replies so far.Its CDS we are looking at,I know it reasonably well from several Golf Holidays over the years staying in a friends apt in Estepona.Although I havn't been for a while.We are both coming out next month to Benelmedena for a recce.If we rent who is liable for local taxes? How much are what we call "council tax" and any idea how much income tax we would pay on joint £26k a year.


Is your pension a Government pension? If so you will pay taxes in the U.K.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Can't see if anyone answered this question.
> 
> Sometimes the rental price includes IBI (council tax) and sometimes not. Best to check any rental agreement carefully. The amount varies by area, property etc.


from a tenant's point of view I believe that the landlord should pay the IBI - it shouldn't be an extra on top of the rent - the property owner would have to pay it regardless of whether there was a tenant in the property


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## zenkarma (Feb 15, 2013)

pompeyman said:


> If we rent who is liable for local taxes? How much are what we call "council tax" and any idea how much income tax we would pay on joint £26k a year.


I've been looking at rental properties recently and when looking at the monthly rental cost not one of them has stated that local taxes are in addition. They've all quoted prices plus utilities. This is normal, local taxes should be paid by the landlord but as someone else mentioned it's as well to look through the rental agreement very carefully so you know exactly what you are paying for and what not.

If you are a resident in Spain for longer than 183 cumulative (added together) days in any year you are a tax resident and will be taxed on your worldwide income. As someone else mentioned, if your income is a UK government state pension it can only be taxed in the UK, if it isn't, you'll pay UK taxes and Spanish taxes on it.

It's impossible to calculate this as it depends on your personal circumstances and what your allowances are. Let's assume you're a single person with a £13,000 income:

On £13,000 a year, you'd be allowed £8,105 personal allowance, which leaves £4,895 to be taxed. The first £2,790 at 10% = £279.00, the remainder £2,105 at 20% = £210.50, totaling £489.50 due to the inland revenue,

That same £13,000 in euros (using a nominal let's say 1.10 exchange rate) would be €14,300 minus the spanish personal allowance of €5,151 leaves €9149 to be taxed at 24.75%, which would be €2,264.37.

Now you've already paid £489.50 to the UK IR, which in euros would be €538.45, so that minus the Spanish tax would be €2,264.37 - €489.50 = €1,774.87 due to the Spanish Hacienda.

In total you've paid €538.45 to the UK Inland Revenue and €1,774.87 to the Spanish Hacienda, in total €2,313.32 tax on €14,300 income which is 16.2% (2,313/14,300 x 100).

Now this is just an example and may or may not be true for your own personal circumstance (it depends on what allowances you can claim) but I reckon if you use 15-20% as a guide to the amount of tax you may be liable for, you won't be far off. That percentage will of course increase as your income increases.


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## fradem (Mar 5, 2013)

*Have you considered Spain?*

23k/year is suitable for a good living in the sunny south of Spain. I moved here from Portugal 2 years ago. Also, housing is not a problem with all the prices bottoming ........//SNIP/


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