# Car Scam - Bounced Check (cheque)



## Angad.a

I have been living in Dubai for about 2.5 years, and from the many stories relating to Check bouncing , I have had this 'faith' in the sanctity of cheques in Dubai. 

So, naturally, I confidently accepted a cheque for my car, which I was selling. It bounced, and I am 91,000 AED in the red. I've tried to be as detailed of my oversights (and stupidity) as possible in this post, so other's may not become a victim.

I posted my Audi A4 for Sale in Dubizzle and I got a decent interest from buyers. One lady was especially interested - and came to see the car right away. She was a Dubai-borne Moroccan lady by the name /snip/ (name as per EID and Cheque). She was accompanied by another gentleman, whose name was for certain, a fake. She and her partner didn't really inspect the car (1st red flag), and after some superficial negotiation agreed an a price 2,000 AED lower than the published.

I proposed we meet at the RTA for registration, handover and agreed to take 11,000 AED in cash and 91,000 in cheque. Upon reaching the RTA, turns out /snip/ has forgotten her license at home and the transfer could not be possible at RTA. (2nd red flag)

Rather than come back another day, the duo suggested we go to Al Aweer (auto mart) to do up a sales contract and compete the transaction. I called up my auto mortgage banker guy who verified this is a legit process.

At the showroom, I signed the contract, took her /snip/ cheque and handed over the car (yes...sigh...). 

The next day, the cheque bounced and the car, was already transferred to a car showrooms' name (Car Zone on SZ Road). The car was never even registered to /snip/ in the interim. It turns out a Sales Contract was adequate to pass on the car to the next 'legal' owner.

Upon filing a police report, it surfaced that she is a pro. This is her third scam since April 2014.. all involving cheques. She has a travel ban, but has not been caught (may not be caught, if she stays under the radar)

Upon speaking to her bankers /snip/ her accounts been black listed and blocked for months.. However she is holding her old cheque book and possibly using her last few cheques .


Re-stating the obvious, but....

1. Never accept a cheque, only managers cheque
2. Only handover the car, when the monies have been received
3. Only transfer your car at RTA to another buyer
4. Keep your wits about you.


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## Moe78

I never accept personal cheques, only cheques drawn from a bank like a manager's cheque where the money has been verified. What happened to you is unfortunate but you yourself appear to have known what not to do, so why do it? It's sad but it's people who make these mistakes that ensure these scammers will keep getting away with it.

I do have to wonder. If they plan to resell the car or use it then couldn't the police track her down that way? With Salik tolls on the important roads and traffic cameras, how hard it would it be to track an Audi A4?


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## Mr Rossi

Can she not be traced via Car Zone? Are they not culpable in anyway or do they just hand out cash on for any car with a bit of paper written at Al Aweer?


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## Angad.a

I do know better now about cheques. 

The other point is - from the time you make a police report, till the time the police receives confirmation from /snip/ bank verifying the identity of the account holder - a week goes by. 

Within that time, the criminal can 1) disengage all Salik, 2) sell the car 3) re-register the car with a different number plate and possibly even leave the country.


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## Angad.a

Mr Rossi said:


> Can she not be traced via Car Zone? Are they not culpable in anyway or do they just hand out cash on for any car with a bit of paper written at Al Aweer?


The paper - known as a "muktya" is a legal, legit document used for car transactions at car showrooms. The last transaction is "legal" - so the last party is not culpable. Unless one can prove their hand in the fraud - car zone is in the clear. 

Tracing her identity has already been done. The police have her EID, visa details from the bank. Now apprehending her is another story. Perhaps when she surfaces for something official - like visa renewal, hospital, etc...


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## Felixtoo2

What was the colour and registration number so that we can keep an eye out for it.


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## BedouGirl

Angad.a said:


> The paper - known as a "muktya" is a legal, legit document used for car transactions at car showrooms. The last transaction is "legal" - so the last party is not culpable. Unless one can prove their hand in the fraud - car zone is in the clear.
> 
> Tracing her identity has already been done. The police have her EID, visa details from the bank. Now apprehending her is another story. Perhaps when she surfaces for something official - like visa renewal, hospital, etc...


If she's got a travel ban, she probably isn't going to pop up to have her visa renewed, sadly.


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## Mr Rossi

Angad.a said:


> The last transaction is "legal" - so the last party is not culpable. Unless one can prove their hand in the fraud - car zone is in the clear.


Technically true but I doubt Car Zone are zipped up the back and know what is what, when someone is desperate to sell a car, well below the market value with only a Muktya as proof of ownership. You might not get anywhere but I'd push things with them a bit, they have a social responsibility not to aid and abet fraud.

Have you spoke to a lawyer about any of this?


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## Moe78

Is this "Muktya" the gold card that says when the rego/insurance expires and details about owner and the car? If so it's pronounced "Mulkeeya" or "Mulkiya"


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## Angad.a

Mr Rossi said:


> Technically true but I doubt Car Zone are zipped up the back and know what is what, when someone is desperate to sell a car, well below the market value with only a Muktya as proof of ownership. You might not get anywhere but I'd push things with them a bit, they have a social responsibility not to aid and abet fraud. Have you spoke to a lawyer about any of this?


I did approach carzone - who directed me to their legal department (habtoor motors) 

Spoke to lawyers - but none with whom I'll end up spending a good amount of money, with no surety of car or payment recovery.


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## Angad.a

Moe78 said:


> Is this "Muktya" the gold card that says when the rego/insurance expires and details about owner and the car? If so it's pronounced "Mulkeeya" or "Mulkiya"


Mulkiya!! It's pronounced Mulkiya - a sales contract.


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## Moe78

The mulkiya is the gold card you get when you buy and subsequently re-register the car, it basically means ownership. It's not a sales contract but I can see someone mentioning mulkiya during a sale since ownership is transferred.


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## Angad.a

Moe78 said:


> The mulkiya is the gold card you get when you buy and subsequently re-register the car, it basically means ownership. It's not a sales contract but I can see someone mentioning mulkiya during a sale since ownership is transferred.



I could be getting the name wrong, but the said "sales contract" is attached.


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## Tropicana

The contract is called Ittefaqiya, which means......contract

Mulkiya is the registration card which technically means ownership. but is completely different from the sales contract


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## Angad.a

thank you.


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## XL123

*msg to angad.a*

dear, 

I have exactly the same story may be with the same woman. I would like to talk to you to share experience.
X


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## Steve87

XL123 said:


> dear,
> 
> I have exactly the same story may be with the same woman. I would like to talk to you to share experience.
> X


I think I was just taken for the same ride. If anyone can help shed some light on what will happen next please message me.


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## UKexpat66

*same thing*

sounds as though the same thing has happened to me and the same scam with the same people


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## iggles

Hindsight, but why didn't you ask to see her bank balance before accepting the cheque? A simple, can i look at your last text from your bank to know the money is there? 

I don't even consider that as an invasion of privacy, and would even consider doing it in the UK.


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## UKexpat66

a chq, with a copy of his Emirates ID (local Emerati) you would think would be pretty safe, The name on the bank account matched that of his Emirates ID and you hear that bouncing a chq in Dubai is a criminal offence so would have guessed that with ID he would have been foolish to do so, looks as though I was the fool.
Police case now opened and going through the process with his bank of getting personal details. My car is now up on Dubizzle for sale via a new owner so be aware folks as I've been told there is nothing I can do about my car, its the bounced chq I now have to deal with


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## ash_ak

UKexpat66 said:


> a chq, with a copy of his Emirates ID (local Emerati) you would think would be pretty safe, The name on the bank account matched that of his Emirates ID and you hear that bouncing a chq in Dubai is a criminal offence so would have guessed that with ID he would have been foolish to do so, looks as though I was the fool.
> Police case now opened and going through the process with his bank of getting personal details. My car is now up on Dubizzle for sale via a new owner so be aware folks as I've been told there is nothing I can do about my car, its the bounced chq I now have to deal with


How on earth can the same car be listed on sale on dubizzle and the cops are not going to do anything about it. They have laws for the most silliest of things, but they do not want to do anything about something as blatant as this.

DO you know any emirati? Get their help in pushing your case to the forefront with the police.


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## Stevesolar

ash_ak said:


> How on earth can the same car be listed on sale on dubizzle and the cops are not going to do anything about it. They have laws for the most silliest of things, but they do not want to do anything about something as blatant as this.
> 
> DO you know any emirati? Get their help in pushing your case to the forefront with the police.


Hi,
I think this issue arises when the old owner signs a bill of sale (in Arabic) stating that they have sold the car and have received full payment for it.
That means the car is not theirs legally and the new "owner" can then resell it.
The only police issue is therefore the bounced cheque - which now has nothing to do with the legal ownership of the car.
We recently sold a car to a British car wheeler/dealer (who immediately sold it to another dealer, as we have seen car on Dubizzle.)
We had a little finance outstanding - so the dealer went with us to the bank and physically paid cash into the loan account to settle the finance - this protected both parties as we had been paid for the car and by settling the finance himself, the dealer then knew that title of car was clean.
We then signed the bill of sale - which was again, in Arabic.
Cheers
Steve


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## UKexpat66

sounds like the same people that scammed me, do you want to get in touch with me ?


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## UKexpat66

Steve87 said:


> I think I was just taken for the same ride. If anyone can help shed some light on what will happen next please message me.


Steve87 - Sounds as though its the same people that conned me, any luck with your recovery of the money, I have the name of the individual on his chq book and Emirates ID


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## luqman.faraz

Angad.a said:


> I do know better now about cheques.
> 
> The other point is - from the time you make a police report, till the time the police receives confirmation from /snip/ bank verifying the identity of the account holder - a week goes by.
> 
> Within that time, the criminal can 1) disengage all Salik, 2) sell the car 3) re-register the car with a different number plate and possibly even leave the country.



Hi Angad,

I think my friend just got scammed by the same woman yesterday. A run of the mill google search got me to this page. Did this lady give an FGB cheque and did her name begin with a "T"??


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## AR13

UKexpat66 said:


> Steve87 - Sounds as though its the same people that conned me, any luck with your recovery of the money, I have the name of the individual on his chq book and Emirates ID


Hey,

Can you provide me your contact details? Even I seem to have fallen for the same person - an Emirati guy.


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## Stevesolar

Hi,
Reminder to members - do not post personal contact details on the open forum.
Please use the Private Message function to exchange details.
Thanks
Steve


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## AR13

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> Reminder to members - do not post personal contact details on the open forum.
> Please use the Private Message function to exchange details.
> Thanks
> Steve


Yes agreed. Please PM me as I'm new and not aware. Thanks.


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## pepecik

UKexpat66 said:


> Steve87 - Sounds as though its the same people that conned me, any luck with your recovery of the money, I have the name of the individual on his chq book and Emirates ID





AR13 said:


> Hey, Can you provide me your contact details? Even I seem to have fallen for the same person - an Emirati guy.


 Please contact with me, we sold a car with the same way and now we can't reach her. /snip/


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## BedouGirl

pepecik said:


> Please contact with me, we sold a car with the same way and now we can't reach her. /snip/


Posting personal contact details is not permitted on the forum.


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## pepecik

BedouGirl said:


> Posting personal contact details is not permitted on the forum.


how can i contact with the members? i dont want to talk details about this situation on a public forum also i cant send private message to them.

So please help me and share my mail address with these guys

Thanks


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## Angad.a

luqman.faraz said:


> Hi Angad,
> 
> I think my friend just got scammed by the same woman yesterday. A run of the mill google search got me to this page. Did this lady give an FGB cheque and did her name begin with a "T"??


hi

sorry for the late reply, but she had a al habib bnk, name starts with a T... can you get in touch with me?


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## BedouGirl

pepecik said:


> how can i contact with the members? i dont want to talk details about this situation on a public forum also i cant send private message to them. So please help me and share my mail address with these guys Thanks


If any of you wish to contact one another, please send PMs. You can access the PM facility after you've made five posts. Thank you.


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## snd2k6

Hi All,

i'm just seeing this thread, well just joined as well. I've just been caught with the same. Emirati ID, same name on the check, vehicles transferred to his so called wife, whom is Moraccan. (220K) HSBC Bank.


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## Durise

This is a very embarrassing news. I've had a similar situation recently. I went to my bank with a cheque that I got from one of my known personality. After submitting the cheque bank replied that they don't have any account name regarding the cheque account name. When I called that guy his phone was off, and when I visited his apartment he was not here.


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## snd2k6

The sad part which I'm shocked about is the police is treating this as a "bounced check" and not as thief. This is a planned out scheme. Why can't they act quicker.


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## snd2k6

Did anyone ever get back their car or money?


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## Angad.a

nope, none that I have heard of. If she is still scamming, she clearly hasnt been caught..


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## snd2k6

Angad.a said:


> nope, none that I have heard of. If she is still scamming, she clearly hasnt been caught..


I'm not sure if its the same person, I reckon there is a network of Moroccan ladies around doing it. It started off with an Emirati guy and then she came in an did the transfer.


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## Luckycouple

*Car Scam*

Same situation with my husband just recently last Thursday night with this Moroccan girl and emirati and one Iraqi man,we just lucky their something wrong with the cheque and my husband didn't deposit it in the bank,he knows that this cheque will be bounch,my husband have a suspicious that this cheque is fake,thanks God we went to the police station the same day and file the cast with this Moroccan girl and her friend to block their name and the chase number of the car so they cannot resale the car or export it in any other country,and the man he's in the jail now.


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## Felixtoo2

Did you get your car back?


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## Luckycouple

Yes we recover the car it's in the police station now.


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## nareshmag

Thanks for your Experience.


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## Sooli

I'm embarrassed to say I just got scammed two days ago here in Abu Dhabi for AED 120,000. Found out today that Cheque bounced. 

Is there no way to get your money back via insurance?

If they catch the scumbags will the money then be returned?

I was done by an emirati claiming to be from prominent family and came in a G class Merc. 

Feel so stupid. ?


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## Stevesolar

Sooli said:


> I'm embarrassed to say I just got scammed two days ago here in Abu Dhabi for AED 120,000. Found out today that Cheque bounced.
> 
> Is there no way to get your money back via insurance?
> 
> If they catch the scumbags will the money then be returned?
> 
> I was done by an emirati claiming to be from prominent family and came in a G class Merc.
> 
> Feel so stupid. ?


Hi,
Out of interest - why did you accept a cheque in the first place?
For car sales - cash is king!
Cheers
Steve


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## Sooli

Yes why indeed did I accept Cheque. Im asking myself that over and over but I guess that's why these scammers come dressed in expensive clothes, watches and cars to make it seem legit and so you don't question. 

I guess when you got a buyer and realy wanna sell your car you're just happy to take any form of payment in the thought that a Cheque is safe here in uae but it's anything but.

Live and learn hey!


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## Edino

Sooli said:


> Yes why indeed did I accept Cheque. Im asking myself that over and over but I guess that's why these scammers come dressed in expensive clothes, watches and cars to make it seem legit and so you don't question.
> 
> I guess when you got a buyer and realy wanna sell your car you're just happy to take any form of payment in the thought that a Cheque is safe here in uae but it's anything but.
> 
> Live and learn hey!


Cheque is not more than a wordless piece of paper unless the account has money in it to pay you.

If you get impressed by people here driving expensive cars... hold your breath: many of these cars are owned by banks, rented, and probably run a couple of months behind payment; no matter what dress these presumed owners wear!


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## RussianPower

*Car scam - bounced cheque*

Unfortunately, I got scammed few weeks ago in Dubai for AED 130,000.

It was a group of 4 Jordanian guys (most probably brothers), targeting mostly expats, coming on a luxury car (Porsche Carrera), showing cash and of them pretending to be a local. From the beginning they informed me that they are cash buyers, didn't even try to negotiate on the price and was in a rush to buy my car asap.

Later they asked to meet at night at Al Qusais RTA and complete the registration. Throughout the time, they are showing good manners, their generous culture and wealthy lifestyle, inviting to a restaurant and at the end trying to run away or to give a fake cheque. During the registration, they immediately put EXPORT plate number.

I have already opened Police case, but Dubai Police doesn't care about your situation and problems. For them bounced cheque is nothing.

If someone already have experience on how to speed up the process or may be how to open fraud case in police, please let me know.

I have all details about this guys, but can't catch them.


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## Malbec

Edino said:


> Cheque is not more than a wordless piece of paper unless the account has money in it to pay you.
> 
> If you get impressed by people here driving expensive cars... hold your breath: many of these cars are owned by banks, rented, and probably run a couple of months behind payment; no matter what dress these presumed owners wear!


I wonder what is the best way to sell the car in this case to not get scammed? I don't like and don't trust cheques personally; with cash you have to be sure it is not counterfeited.

Is it possible to ask the buyer to issue a banker's cheque? It is type of cheque issued on bank's name. Bank is deducting money directly from account or taking cash before issuing such cheque. Such cheque has guaranteed coverage of funds. Do local banks offer such service here?


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## RussianPower

Luckycouple said:


> Yes we recover the car it's in the police station now.


Please let me know how did you open fraud case?


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## Stevesolar

Malbec said:


> I wonder what is the best way to sell the car in this case to not get scammed? I don't like and don't trust cheques personally; with cash you have to be sure it is not counterfeited.
> 
> Is it possible to ask the buyer to issue a banker's cheque? It is type of cheque issued on bank's name. Bank is deducting money directly from account or taking cash before issuing such cheque. Such cheque has guaranteed coverage of funds. Do local banks offer such service here?


Hi,
When we sold our last car there was still a bit of finance owing. We told the buyer and they went with us to our bank to settle the finance and pay us the difference.
If I were selling another car in the future - I would be tempted to tell the buyer that we need to settle finance at my bank (even if there was none owing).
Genuine buyers would not mind doing this - so it is a good way of weeding out scam artists and time wasters.
Again - only deal in cash (this can be checked for authenticity when you pay it in at the bank)
Cheers
Steve


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## Malbec

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> When we sold our last car there was still a bit of finance owing. We told the buyer and they went with us to our bank to settle the finance and pay us the difference.
> If I were selling another car in the future - I would be tempted to tell the buyer that we need to settle finance at my bank (even if there was none owing).
> Genuine buyers would not mind doing this - so it is a good way of weeding out scam artists and time wasters.
> Again - only deal in cash (this can be checked for authenticity when you pay it in at the bank)
> Cheers
> Steve


Thanks for sharing your experience. What formalities comes first? Does the potential buyer gives you cash first? So you meet him at the bank and deposit cash he gave you over the counter in front of him? Is there some legal sale contract provision beforehand, so that potential seller won't scam the buyer as well?


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## Stevesolar

Malbec said:


> Thanks for sharing your experience. What formalities comes first? Does the potential buyer gives you cash first? So you meet him at the bank and deposit cash he gave you over the counter in front of him? Is there some legal sale contract provision beforehand, so that potential seller won't scam the buyer as well?


Hi,
We did cash at the bank before going to the RTA.
You can give the buyer the keys once you have the cash at the bank and let them drive with you to the RTA to do the change of ownership.
At least you have the cash and they have physical possession of the car - before doing the paperwork, so both are happy.
The only way I would accept a cheque - is if it is made out for cash and I got the cash before giving the buyer the car!
Cheers
Steve


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## Malbec

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> We did cash at the bank before going to the RTA.
> You can give the buyer the keys once you have the cash at the bank and let them drive with you to the RTA to do the change of ownership.
> At least you have the cash and they have physical possession of the car - before doing the paperwork, so both are happy.
> The only way I would accept a cheque - is if it is made out for cash and I got the cash before giving the buyer the car!
> Cheers
> Steve


I checked now and the banker's cheque I was referring to seems to be called Manager’s Cheque by the banks here. This should be as safe as cash, as there is no way for this cheque to bounce, unless it has been forged...


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## Stevesolar

Malbec said:


> I checked now and the banker's cheque I was referring to seems to be called Manager’s Cheque by the banks here. This should be as safe as cash, as there is no way for this cheque to bounce, unless it has been forged...


Hi,
In the UK there have been plenty of scams with bank drafts (managers cheque, as you call them).
For that reason, I would only accept one of these if I was able to cash it before handing over the car.
I would not give buyer car and then deposit the bank draft into my account - as there is plenty of opportunity for these cheques to be false.
Never forget - cash is king! (Especially in any market where car fraud appears to thrive, without penalty)
Cheers
Steve


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## RussianPower

Guys, any updates? Someone was able to return money back?


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## RussianPower

Luckycouple said:


> Yes we recover the car it's in the police station now.


Please let me know how did you block your car in Police? Police is saying I can only open the case against bounced cheque. Thank you!


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## ccr

Malbec said:


> What formalities comes first?


All of the car transactions I did was cash at RTA office.

I either accepted / paid cash after the car has passed RTA inspection and legally could be transferred.

The cash could be counted while the transfer is being entered into the system. A few other people are doing the same while we were there...

I will never accept check!


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## dime06

*Car scam -thank you zillion times*

*THANK YOU EXPAT FORUM*

your stories just saved me from a similar car scam.. The story is like this.

Ad in Dubizzle for a merc

A arabic speaking lady called me and showed interest to view and buy

keep delaying for many days for various reasons and till this evening.. (today is wednesday and tomorrow thursday is last working day )

3 men In local dress showed up at my villa 8 pm , had a look at my car, one tried to open the bonnet but other said no need, i like the car, lets go RTA for transfer ---- (BIG RED FLAG- Thinking about this post)

I asked what is your offer, one man said the lady you spoke is my daughter, pls speak to her, she called and reluctantly asked me to give discount ( by this minute i was dead sure i am standing with criminals)..i told her 1000 aed , she laughed and say OK. (I was now expecting that they will offer me cheque)

Yes, the offered me cheque,or otherwise give bank account and they will transfer tomorrow morning.

I said NO.. Give me cash now, I will count it now, leave it at my villa and then i will go with you and transfer... 

they tried to sweet talk , saying we r coming from AD, my daughter wants a car, we r locals so trust us bla bla bla , but then suddenly became aggressive..but i simply refused , they shook hands and left.

Phew... I saved 200K

So if anyone is interested to know their latest cell phone no's , their car details and pictures/video as my garage has surveillance cameras and they recorded all 3 of them, then please send me PM and i will be glad to help them but of course thru proper channel.


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## twowheelsgood

Best to lodge a complaint with the police particularly if you have their car details and cellphone numbers - but don't admit to the video.

But well done indeed


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## The Rascal

twowheelsgood said:


> Best to lodge a complaint with the police particularly if you have their car details and cellphone numbers - but don't admit to the video.
> 
> But well done indeed


Surveillance cameras aren't illegal TWTG, I'd report it and give all details including the vid - it may have their car's reg on for example?


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## Malbec

The Rascal said:


> Surveillance cameras aren't illegal TWTG, I'd report it and give all details including the vid - it may have their car's reg on for example?


But what would you report? A scam that didn't happen? Then it is not a scam. I mean they didn't cheat him, they tried to but how will police interpret this I have no idea. They didn't hand over a cheque which had no cover or which is fake, so it's a dead case I think.


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## Stevesolar

Malbec said:


> But what would you report? A scam that didn't happen? Then it is not a scam. I mean they didn't cheat him, they tried to but how will police interpret this I have no idea. They didn't hand over a cheque which had no cover or which is fake, so it's a dead case I think.


Well- in other countries they would find out who the people are and either follow them or setup a sting operation - it's what the CID are there to do - detective work!


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## Chocoholic

The Rascal said:


> Surveillance cameras aren't illegal TWTG, I'd report it and give all details including the vid - it may have their car's reg on for example?


So long as you have CID permission to have one! Also surveillance or not, they could claim to being filmed without permission. Plus as technically no crime has taken place, this could backfire spectacularly.

Wouldn't say anything - to anyone.


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## twowheelsgood

I'd tell the cops anyway and say the cheque they offered was obviously a fake cheque and that they took it back with them.

Even if the police se them and decide there's no proof, they will be in the system.

And the way Dubai is, they might just decide to have a look at their bank account to see if they had enough money in it to clear the alleged cheque.


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## Lloyd Christmas

Looks like the same people tried to buy my car last night. Something seemed fishy and even more so when they wanted to pay by cheque and go to the RTA right there and then. They didn't really look at the car and hardly asked any details. I refused and said cash only. We agreed to transfer today, but seems their phone is now turned off (or they blocked me).

It was a guy in local dress and apparently his sister as the car was for her. They looked nothing alike as well. 

Safe to say, you need to be wary.


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## dime06

Good to know you are saved..

When i sold my car i followed the below procedure which i thought is safe , I hope RTA should devise better solution like land department ( selling/buying property) which is very safe.

1) Only agree for " CASH" - nothing else.
2) Once reach RTA , ask buyer to show cash. ( before reaching the RTA transfer desk)
3) Count it yourself and put it in an envelop with seal ( i used a rubber band as extra  ) 
4) Return this envelope to buyer.
5) while the transfer documentation is happening , ask the buyer to put cash envelope at the desk ( make sure sealed)
6) Sign the documents and pick the envelope immediately ( while the buyer signing his docs) 

I agreed on the above procedure with buyer beforehand so buyer was comfortable.


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