# NIE Sign-up Problems; Self-Employed



## daveunt (Sep 7, 2017)

Hi all,

Some advice would be much appreciated.

I am an British citizen who has just moved to Spain. I intend to sign on as self-employed and as I understand it, I will require an NIE before going to the Hacienda and Social Security offices to do so.

My intention is to stay in Spain indefinitely, but from looking at the requirements for the EX-18 form (which would provide an NIE number), I need to have proof of having signed on at the Hacienda and Social Security if I want to directly sign on as a resident.

As previously mentioned, I can't sign on at the Hacienda and Social Security offices until I have an NIE, so I completed an EX-15 form and booked an appointment to process it. However, upon presenting the form, I was (abruptly) told that I couldn't use that form to get an NIE number and that I needed to complete the EX-18 form instead. I explained my situation but she didn't relent. She said I could sign on as self-employed with my passport (as far as I understand that isn't possible; it certainly isn't possible to sign on for Social Security without an NIE) and didn't need an NIE. I therefore asked what exactly the EX-15 form is for and she replied: "para nada." She seemed intent on making things as difficult as possible.

So, I'm really just looking for some advice as to what to do next. Given that the likelihood is that I will end up with the same women if I simply book another appointment and will therefore get the same answer, I just want to make sure that I am correct in my understanding of things and that it will simply be a case of standing my ground until she processes it. In the second half of the form, which options should I tick in the "Datos Relativo a la Solicitud" section to best reflect my situation?

I thought this would be one of the easier parts of the process but it seems not!

Any help greatly appreciated!


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

DAVE 

If one moves to Spain, and in your case you appear to have done so, as you say you intend to work, that means you are obliged to apply for EU Citizen Registration. 

That is why you are not permitted to apply for just an NIE cert. 

Your EU Reg Card will bear an NIE.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

But he can't do that until he's registered as autónomo.... & he needs a NIE for that

He should be able to get a NIE without the 3rd degree.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> But he can't do that until he's registered as autónomo.... & he needs a NIE for that
> 
> He should be able to get a NIE without the 3rd degree.


I'm wondering if hepresented the X15 in the wrong governmental office. Can you just verify where the X15 has to be handed in?


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## daveunt (Sep 7, 2017)

I made the appointment via the government website, specifically chose the NIE/EX-15 option and went to the designated place, that being the Comisaria de Policia. I am struggling to find a solution, as I seem to be stuck in an infinite loop if I am unable to obtain an NIE number using the EX-15 form.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

daveunt said:


> I made the appointment via the government website, specifically chose the NIE/EX-15 option and went to the designated place, that being the Comisaria de Policia. I am struggling to find a solution, as I seem to be stuck in an infinite loop if I am unable to obtain an NIE number using the EX-15 form.


Ok, right place, wrong person. Try going again with a print out of this page which is the Home Office page explaining in Spanish why you have to present an X15 to get a NIE. Don't say anything about working if you can help it, which might confuse the issue.
Número de Identidad de Extranjero (NIE) - Ministerio del Interior

Probably you'll get a different person and there won't be a problem

PS Comisería with an extranjería department? Just checking!


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Dave I maybe wrong but this might help. 

Residency requirements
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/residency-requirements-in-spain

From 28 March 2007, Royal Decree 240/07 *requires that all EU citizens planning to reside in Spain for more than 3 months *should register in person at the Oficina de Extranjeros in their province of residence or at designated Police stations.* You will be issued a credit card size Residence Certificate stating your name, address, nationality, NIE number (Número de Identificación Extranjero*) and date of registration. After five years residence registration you are entitled to apply for a certificate of permanent residence in Spain.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

PS

As I understand: If the applicant already has an NIE, *because they obtained it before deciding to move to Spain *that is the number which will appear on the card. if they did not have an NIE then one will be assigned


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Juan C said:


> PS
> 
> As I understand: If the applicant already has an NIE, *because they obtained it before deciding to move to Spain *that is the number which will appear on the card. if they did not have an NIE then one will be assigned


Of course.


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## daveunt (Sep 7, 2017)

Pesky Wesky: I was definitely in the right place - the extranjería department of the comisaria. And there was only one person working there and processing the forms, otherwise I would have made a bit more of a fuss to try and get another worker involved to help my cause.

As it is, I think my only recourse may be to return having completed both the EX-15 and EX-18 forms. Hopefully in that situation, it will be obvious why I need the NIE number provided by the EX-15 to sign on as self-employed to late complete the EX-18.



Juan C said:


> Dave I maybe wrong but this might help.
> 
> Residency requirements:
> 
> From 28 March 2007, Royal Decree 240/07 *requires that all EU citizens planning to reside in Spain for more than 3 months *should register in person at the Oficina de Extranjeros in their province of residence or at designated Police stations.* You will be issued a credit card size Residence Certificate stating your name, address, nationality, NIE number (Número de Identificación Extranjero*) and date of registration. After five years residence registration you are entitled to apply for a certificate of permanent residence in Spain.


Hi Juan C,

This relates to the EX-18 form that I mentioned previously. That would be fine if I had a work contract or was moving to Spain without work and with enough money to show that I could support myself. In that case, all would run smoothly (one would assume!). Unfortunately, in order to use this form as a self-employed person (trabajador por cuenta propia), you need to provide evidence of being signed up as such with the Hacienda and/or Social Security, both of which are impossible to achieve without first having an NIE.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I don't usually suggest engaging the services of a gestor to obtain an NIE or sign on the register of foreign residents because it's usually pretty straightforward, but perhaps this is one case where a gestor could be useful?


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Dave. Simple solution: Go back to the same office . 

Tell them you are considering becoming autónomo but it the meanwhile you want to open a bank account. 

In those circumstances you can apply for an NIE. Y

You will not need a gestor to that. It is simple.


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## daveunt (Sep 7, 2017)

Juan C said:


> Dave. Simple solution: Go back to the same office .
> 
> Tell them you are considering becoming autónomo but it the meanwhile you want to open a bank account.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, that was one of the things I put forward as a reason when disputing why I couldn't use the EX-15 to get an NIE and I was told blankly that I could use a passport to open a bank account.

I have now come across someone on another forum who had the same problem but was able to resolve it by simply going to a smaller town and obtaining an NIE there, so that might be one to try if not.

I think I will just return to the office next week with both forms (EX-15 and EX-18), make it clear exactly what I need done and refuse to budge until a solution is provided. Wish me luck!


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

yes one can open a bank account without an NIE but one needs it to operate the account. So insist

Incidentally you can only make an application for an NIE or EU Reg in the office which covers the place where you are staying at the time.

You could also say you are thinking about buying a property, as a holiday home, i.e. not to move into

Out of curiosity, where is the office you are having problems with ?


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## daveunt (Sep 7, 2017)

The central Málaga office. As seems to sometimes be the case in Spain, I think I just had the misfortune to get someone who couldn't be bothered to deal with me that day and thought it'd be easier to send me away and hope I'd end up with one of their colleagues next time.

I have heard of people using a hostel or holiday apartment address in another town and then simply going into their actual office later to get their address details changed. I have another appointment for next week so hopefully I can get it sorted then. If not, that'll be something to look into.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Hi Dave, as you say, it is where you are staying, so a hostal, hotel etc. is legally fine.


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## daveunt (Sep 7, 2017)

Hi all,

An update.

All seemed to be going well when my EX-15 form was accepted on my second visit to the Comisaría a couple of weeks ago. However, I returned to the office this morning to pick up my NIE, only to instead receive a letter rejecting my application. It stated that all EU residents who intend to stay for longer than three months must sign onto the EU register using form EX-18.

As it is impossible for me to comply with the conditions of the EX-18, namely that I need to show proof of registration as self-employed and/or with the social security office (both of which I can't achieve without first having an NIE), I find myself back at square one of this seemingly infinite loop.

I will book another appointment for next week, submit the EX-18 and see where that gets me. In the meantime, I don't suppose the Hacienda has a telephone number (like HMRC), so I can call them and see what they would suggest?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

daveunt said:


> Hi all,
> 
> An update.
> 
> ...


Does seem to be getting complicated, doesn't it?

https://www.agenciatributaria.gob.e..._33_55_33_y_otros_servicios_telefonicos.shtml


*Información Tributaria Básica: 901 33 55 33 (*Accesible también a través del teléfono *91 554 87 70 *)

Atención de dudas telefónicas: Opciones
De lunes a viernes, de 9 a 19 horas (hasta las 15 horas en agosto).

*Cita previa general: 901 200 351 *(Accesible también a través del teléfono *91 290 13 40*).
De lunes a viernes de 9 a 19 horas.


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## daveunt (Sep 7, 2017)

It does indeed!

Thanks for the numbers. I'll give them a try on Monday.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Juan C said:


> yes one can open a bank account without an NIE but one needs it to operate the account. So insist
> 
> Incidentally you can only make an application for an NIE or EU Reg in the office which covers the place where you are staying at the time.
> 
> ...


This is not always the case - depends on the bank and the branch.


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## daveunt (Sep 7, 2017)

And so the story continues!

I went to the Hacienda last week because after reading around a bit it seemed like it might possible to request a temporary NIF in order to sign up as self-employed before later presenting the EX-18 to the Comisaria to get an NIE. I was, however, told that this could only be applied for if a NIE application was in process and it was simply a case of wanting to get underway before receiving full documentation. Having a NIE application rejected, as I had, was not considered "in process," and they therefore refused to provide me with a temporary NIF. They said that if I was having problems getting an NIE, I needed to take it up with the Comisaria.

So back I went to the Comisaria this morning to try and submit the EX-18 form, knowing full well that I couldn't meet its requirements to be resident as a self-employed worker but with some outside hope that the rejection from the Hacienda (which they had put in writing for me) would be enough to make clear my position and open up a potential solution. Alas, no. They of course told me that the Hacienda should have provided a NIF and that I'd need to take it up with them (the buck is passed once more!).

I have therefore come to the conclusion that it is impossible to complete the NIE/Self-Employed process from scratch under the current regulations. So it looks like I'll have to shuffle some money around, pay for a health insurance policy that I don't need and then apply as a non-active person with sufficient funds to support myself in Spain. This has been a taste of Spanish bureaucracy at its finest!


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

daveunt said:


> And so the story continues!
> 
> I went to the Hacienda last week because after reading around a bit it seemed like it might possible to request a temporary NIF in order to sign up as self-employed before later presenting the EX-18 to the Comisaria to get an NIE. I was, however, told that this could only be applied for if a NIE application was in process and it was simply a case of wanting to get underway before receiving full documentation. Having a NIE application rejected, as I had, was not considered "in process," and they therefore refused to provide me with a temporary NIF. They said that if I was having problems getting an NIE, I needed to take it up with the Comisaria.
> 
> ...


Have you considered hiring a lawyer, who in the short term maybe cheaper than a years private medical insurance? It's just a thought.


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## daveunt (Sep 7, 2017)

The problem with that option is that I don't think I am misunderstanding the process. It is simply that the process doesn't work in this case due to insufficient communication between government bodies. So I am loathe to pay a lawyer who may just come to the same conclusion as me. I'd then be down the health insurance + the lawyer's fee. 

I'd also like to get this sorted out as soon as possible. If all goes well I could get it done early next week by simply signing on as someone with sufficient means. Searching for a good lawyer, arranging an appointment with him/her and then getting another appointment at the Comisaria to sort out the paperwork will, I imagine, take at least three-to-four weeks.

It's all been very frustrating so far and I'm not sure I want to introduce another element into the equation. Probably a forlorn hope but is there a Citizen's Advice Bureau or something similar in Spain that one can phone to get general, generic advice on such matters?


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## Exxtol (Jan 15, 2013)

daveunt said:


> And so the story continues!
> 
> I went to the Hacienda last week because after reading around a bit it seemed like it might possible to request a temporary NIF in order to sign up as self-employed before later presenting the EX-18 to the Comisaria to get an NIE. I was, however, told that this could only be applied for if a NIE application was in process and it was simply a case of wanting to get underway before receiving full documentation. Having a NIE application rejected, as I had, was not considered "in process," and they therefore refused to provide me with a temporary NIF. They said that if I was having problems getting an NIE, I needed to take it up with the Comisaria.
> 
> ...


How about this.....

In order to finalize my student visa of more than 180 days I need to obtain a TIE/NIE. Sounds simple enough. The consulate in Los Angeles made it seem like all I had to do was jog down to the comisaría or office of extranjeros, turn in the proper paperwork and viola!

What they failed to mention. In order to obtain the TIE/NIE you need to get the empadranamiento first. Well, in order to get that I need to have a rental/contract agreement first. Well in order to obtain a rental contract/agreement I wish there was some warning that their is housing shortage in Barcelona. Also, I've been trying to obtain an appointment for a TIE/NIE for the last two days, to be met with a message that there are no appointments available at this time.

I sincerely hope the 30 day limit isn't strict, because otherwise I may have a problem. I plan to somehow get in before the 30 days, whether I have the necessary items or not, and explain the situation, otherwise I'm not sure what the Spanish government expects? But surely, before they granted me my visa they could've explained to me that leaving just 2 weeks before the start date of school would not be sufficient time to get "settled". I've been here less than a week, and I'm learning that the phrase, "sense of urgency" does not exist here like it does in the US. It's not bad before anyone jumps down my throat. Just different. And unexpected. And I'll readily admit the bureaucracy is terrible in the states too. Just not this bad. 

Thank god I speak Spanish. Otherwise I'm not sure how I would've understood all of this without it. No wonder people use agencies to acquire their visas.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Dave _Probably a forlorn hope but is there a Citizen's Advice Bureau or something similar in Spain that one can phone to get general, generic advice on such matters_?

Well yes and no.

CAB exists but I have confirmed with CAB UK that has no connection whatsoever with CAB UK.

PS I sent you a PM a while ago explaining how you might get a solution to your [problem, which I did not want to post here. Maybe you did not see it as I have not had a reply)


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Juan C said:


> Dave _Probably a forlorn hope but is there a Citizen's Advice Bureau or something similar in Spain that one can phone to get general, generic advice on such matters_?
> 
> Well yes and no.
> 
> ...


Yes I also did the same some time ago. It is not an official body and has no connection to the CAB as is known in the UK.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

daveunt said:


> The problem with that option is that I don't think I am misunderstanding the process. It is simply that the process doesn't work in this case due to insufficient communication between government bodies. So I am loathe to pay a lawyer who may just come to the same conclusion as me. I'd then be down the health insurance + the lawyer's fee.
> 
> I'd also like to get this sorted out as soon as possible. If all goes well I could get it done early next week by simply signing on as someone with sufficient means. Searching for a good lawyer, arranging an appointment with him/her and then getting another appointment at the Comisaria to sort out the paperwork will, I imagine, take at least three-to-four weeks.
> 
> It's all been very frustrating so far and I'm not sure I want to introduce another element into the equation. Probably a forlorn hope but is there a Citizen's Advice Bureau or something similar in Spain that one can phone to get general, generic advice on such matters?


I don't think the CAB that I know of, which is a private organisation based in the south of Spain are the right people to go to. I don't think a lawyer is the right person to go to either at this point. I think a "gestor" who has experience of working with EU self employed people would know what to do, and more importantly would have the right contacts in the right places. Haven't you tried this already?


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Dave. 
When a person who is not coming to live in Spain (or maybe says he is not ! ) apples for an NIE , because they are going to say open a bank account, may buy a property etc. at no time, before or after, do they have to prove what they are doing. 

One just needs the EX-17 (application form) and the payment form to prove the fee has been paid into a bank, the original passport and a copy. That is it. 

I have just done that for my adult son. Applied one day, picked it up the next day.

Once you have your NIE you can progress your original resaon for your application (nudge nudge, wink, wink)

Hope this helps 


Foreigners' Identity Number (N.I.E.)


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Juan C said:


> Dave.
> When a person who is not coming to live in Spain (or maybe says he is not ! ) apples for an NIE , because they are going to say open a bank account, may buy a property etc. at no time, before or after, do they have to prove what they are doing.
> 
> One just needs the EX-17 (application form) and the payment form to prove the fee has been paid into a bank, the original passport and a copy. That is it.
> ...



I think you mean EX15 - EX17 is for non-eu citizens to get their TIE


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Yes, it was a mis-type EX -15


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## daveunt (Sep 7, 2017)

I am going to try and return next week with the EX-15 and a letter from a bank confirming that I need an NIE in order to operate an account with direct debits. One last attempt before I put the money down for an insurance policy.

Does anyone know of a bank who specifically require an NIE number to open an account? A quick search on the internet suggests that a few of them will quite happily open (and operate) an account with passport (ING, etc). BBVA's Online account seems to require an NIE but any other options would be great. I'll do a tour of banks on Monday and try and get one of them to put a letter together for me.

Thanks again


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## daveunt (Sep 7, 2017)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't think the CAB that I know of, which is a private organisation based in the south of Spain are the right people to go to. I don't think a lawyer is the right person to go to either at this point. I think a "gestor" who has experience of working with EU self employed people would know what to do, and more importantly would have the right contacts in the right places. Haven't you tried this already?


I think I'll give a gestor a go if I don't have any success using the bank account reasoning (mentioned above) next week.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Dave as you are concerned about the opening an account being sufficient, just tell them you are going to buy a property, for that you NEED an NIE for 100% certain
.


Whatever you do, *do not say anything which will imply to are going to live here. 
*

If they give you any grief doing that, demand a complaints form, NB The police are obliged to have them.


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## daveunt (Sep 7, 2017)

Juan C said:


> Dave as you are concerned about the opening an account being sufficient, just tell them you are going to buy a property, for that you NEED an NIE for 100% certain
> .
> Whatever you do, *do not say anything which will imply to are going to live here.
> *


But in that case I've have to provide evidence that is the case. A pre-contract agreement or something to that effect. That is what pretty much any advice on the subject I can find on the internet says and tallies with my own experience in the Malaga office to date.

I can, at least, provide evidence for the bank account point if required. I presume saying I need a bank account in order to sign up for a phone contract because I will be travelling in and out of Spain over the next year visiting relatives would be valid? The advice on the government portal is very vague and it all seems to come down to how strict the person you end up seeing at the office is, so who knows?


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Dave _But in that case I've have to provide evidence that is the case_.

Dave I have explained to you in PM's that is not the case. 

I repeat. If they give you grief DEMAND the complaint forms. From experience I know they work very well in the police station, I have done it several times. and each time the problem has 'disappeared' before I had to complete the form


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## daveunt (Sep 7, 2017)

Do you have a link to a document that explicitly says that no evidence is required? Because I haven't been able to find one. How it is interpreted in one office could be completely different to how the regulations are interpreted in Malaga.


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## daveunt (Sep 7, 2017)

Juan, perhaps you could detail exactly how you completed the form for your son (which motive was selected and written on the second page, section 4.2 for instance), so that I and others have a template to work from. Thanks


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

This is really getting ridiculous, isn't it!

Another idea...
Go to another police station (you don't have to go to your nearest one)
Start from square one. Ask what you need to do to in your case. Ask them to write it down for you as you are very forgetful and will not remember.
Do what it says on the paper and go back to that office
OR
if you're feeling adventurous, go back to the original office


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## daveunt (Sep 7, 2017)

Yes, that could work. I'll head down to one of the ones along the commuter train line to give it a go next week if I have no success in trying to submit an EX-15 form at the central police station.

In truth, I just need them to accept and stamp the form so I can then go to the Hacienda with that to obtain a temporary NIF to sign up as self-employed. Whether they then reject it or not is by the by.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> This is really getting ridiculous, isn't it!
> 
> Another idea...
> Go to another police station (you don't have to go to your nearest one)
> ...


Actually, and strictly speaking, I think it does have to be the nearest one for residency. 

But for just an NIE, you are correct, it can be anywhere.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

daveunt said:


> Yes, that could work. I'll head down to one of the ones along the commuter train line to give it a go next week if I have no success in trying to submit an EX-15 form at the central police station.
> 
> In truth, I just need them to accept and stamp the form so I can then go to the Hacienda with that to obtain a temporary NIF to sign up as self-employed. Whether they then reject it or not is by the by.


There's no such thing as a temporary NIF or even temporary NIE.


By the way, your NIE IS your NIF


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## daveunt (Sep 7, 2017)

snikpoh said:


> There's no such thing as a temporary NIF or even temporary NIE.
> 
> 
> By the way, your NIE IS your NIF


Normally your NIE is your NIF, yes. But a temporary NIF does exist for people who have submitted NIE documentation but need to get started in employment or sign on as self-employed before receiving the number. See here under "Regla especial: NIF M"

http://www.agenciatributaria.es/sta...nsos/Empresas_y_profesionales/Guia_censal.pdf

"*Las personas físicas que carezcan de la nacionalidad española y no dispongan de número de identidad de extranjero, bien de forma transitoria por estar obligados a tenerlo* o bien de forma definitiva al no estar obligados a ello, *deberán solicitar a la Administración tributaria la asignación de un número de identificación fiscal cuando vayan a realizar operaciones de naturaleza o contrascendencia tributaria*."


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Snikpo, 

Hi,

I was told by the National Police there is, in effect, a temporary NIE, and they even sowed me two forms to confirm it.


It is for people who do not have an NIE, who have come to Spain to set up as autónomo for which they need an NE to start that process. In other circumstances they would be obliged to immediately apply for EU Citizen Registration and thus have to prove medical cover and an income. 

I, and Dave I am sure, would be obliged to know you view on that

Thanks


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Actually, and strictly speaking, I think it does have to be the nearest one for residency.
> 
> But for just an NIE, you are correct, it can be anywhere.


OK well here it doesn't have to be. I can go to one in Madrid for example which makes sense as you might want to go to the one nearest your place of work for example


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## Phil Squares (Jan 13, 2017)

Just my opinion and I know quite a few people will have their own opinion. 

We live in near Alicante and my wife is a teacher here. I have dual citizenship with the US and Ireland. We hired an attorney in Madrid to help/do all the paperwork, appointment making, red tape and other duties required for moving from the UK to Spain. 

Expensive? Probably. Worth it? Absolutely!! Would I do it again? In a minute!!!

This attorney/law firm handled everything from me getting my NIE so my wife could use her status as a spouse of an EU citizen to live and work here. 

The attorney was located in Madrid and the address for all forms was her personal house. She prepared an offer letter for us to use her address until we had a permanent address (we didn't). There were no useless trips to government offices. No waiting in line. Everything went like clockwork. From start to finish the entire process took just over 10 weeks. The biggest delay was trying to get appointments. But, she took care of that and just let us know when it was and we took it from there. 

For us, it was well worth the money.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

Phil 

Most people do it themselves, and providing they do what is required by Spain, and do not try to make amendments that they think 'should apply,' it is pretty straight ward. Even when Non EU spouses of EU nationals are involved

Of course if one has the funds to spare then paying someone is an alternative. 

I just wanted to assure those who are on limited incomes that they, pretty easily, can do it themselves.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Juan C said:


> Phil
> 
> Most people do it themselves, and providing they do what is required by Spain, and do not try to make amendments that they think 'should apply,' it is pretty straight ward.  Even when Non EU spouses of EU nationals are involved
> 
> ...


That was our own experience. We arrived in Spain speaking no more than "holiday Spanish" and managed to register as foreign residents, sign on the padrón and register for healthcare with no difficulty and no wasted trips to any Government office. We already had NIEs, having bought a property as a holiday home a few years earlier and obtained one for that purpose.

I do see that the OP in this thread seems to be pretty much in a Catch 22 situation, though, which must be terribly frustrating for him. For that reason, I suggested early on in the thread that perhaps in his case it would be advisable to use a gestor, although in straightforward cases I personally think that's money wasted. I also think it's good for new arrivals to get used to doing things for themselves and finding out how things work, rather than having everything done for them and remaining in blissful ignorance.


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## Phil Squares (Jan 13, 2017)

One of the problems I perceived was the lack of consistency regarding things like income/month and medical insurance. It would appear each office has their own interpretation. 

For instance, in Madrid, I had to prove I had 2000Euros/month plus 20,000 Euros in savings, current account or credit line. I certainly would not have known that. The health insurance (I get a UK pension and could receive an S1) we have is through Sanitas with no deductible as the office in Madrid is very through and read the policy word for word. Other things such as translation of documents and Apostile of Marriage Certificate. 

Plus the bottom line was my time not wasted was more than worth the cost of an attorney.


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## Juan C (Sep 4, 2017)

PHIL. 

The regulations for these matters are standard throughout Spain as they are Administered by the Ministerio del Interior. The amounts of income / savings required to become resident are sent to each office. I have a photo of the most recent, which is pinned to a notice board outside my local office, showing the amounts currently required. The amount you quote are way above what the Ministry require. The medical requirements too are standard. That is full cover with no co-payments, excesses etc.

There may of course be minor variations in interpretations caused by the human factor and no doubt exaggerated and relied upon heavily by paid experts, to ensure they get the business from uniformed, unsuspecting, applicants. But don't be fooled!


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## Phil Squares (Jan 13, 2017)

Juan C said:


> PHIL.
> 
> The regulations for these matters are standard throughout Spain as they are Administered by the Ministerio del Interior. The amounts of income / savings required to become resident are sent to each office. I have a photo of the most recent, pinned to a notice board outside my local office, showing the amounts currently required.
> 
> There may of course be minor variations in interpretations caused by the human factor and no doubt exaggerated and relied upon heavily by paid experts, to ensure they get the business from uniformed, unsuspecting, applicants.


Really???

That's really funny, because I heard those amounts being told to someone when I was in the office getting my NIE. My attorney just wanted to make sure I had an amount I could prove as monthly income. We spoke about having it put into a Spanish bank but decided since speed was important we would just 2 of my pensions. 

But, pardon my sarcasm, I am uninformed, not uniformed and unsuspecting. I had 10 dealing with the Home Office trying to get my wife and kids sorted. I did it myself and regretted that decision. I do learn from my mistakes!!


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## daveunt (Sep 7, 2017)

An update! I have finally completed the process, so this can perhaps act as a guide for those who want to register and sign on as self-employed but who are unable to easily obtain a NIE through the EX-15 form.

- First, I went to the Comisaria with the EX-15 form completed. I told them that I wanted to register as self-employed but needed evidence that I had requested a NIE in order for the Hacienda to issue me a temporary NIF to facilitate the process. They told me to write: "Para tramitar la alta en la hacienda" in the motivo section on the reverse of the form, stamped it to confirm receipt and kept a copy for themselves.

- Secondly, I went to the Hacienda. You cannot make an appointment without first having a NIE, so I just used my girlfriend's number to make it. I presented them with the stamped EX-15 form from the Hacienda and said that I needed to obtain a temporary NIF to sign on as self-employed. He used Modelo 030 to assign me a temporary NIF and then signed me on as self-employed using the simplified Modelo 037.

- Finally, I returned to the Comisaria with the stamped copy of my initial EX-15 form, a completed EX-18 form, a copy of the stamped Modelo 037 confirming that I'd signed on as self-employed, Tasa payment confirmation and passport copies. Everything was processed there and then and I received my NIE number and card.

Now I just need to sign on with social security and obtain a digital certificate to do accounts online and I'm all ready to go. Finally!!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

daveunt said:


> An update! I have finally completed the process, so this can perhaps act as a guide for those who want to register and sign on as self-employed but who are unable to easily obtain a NIE through the EX-15 form.
> 
> - First, I went to the Comisaria with the EX-15 form completed. I told them that I wanted to register as self-employed but needed evidence that I had requested a NIE in order for the Hacienda to issue me a temporary NIF to facilitate the process. They told me to write: "Para tramitar la alta en la hacienda" in the motivo section on the reverse of the form, stamped it to confirm receipt and kept a copy for themselves.
> 
> ...


Well done, I'm glad you got it sorted out in the end. You deserve a medal for not giving up!


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## Mud (Oct 9, 2013)

this story is crazy ; but it's exactly the kind of thing i would imagine happening, because when I read the required documents or reasons to each step of living and working legally as a new resident, i anticipate this kind of thing happening. Have similar things happened to others? 

And advice on avoiding this? (in addition to the help already provided in the thread which is very good to read over, thanks guys)


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## rebl (Dec 30, 2021)

I need to tell my experience in getting a temporary NIE after I FAILED 2 times and tried what was written in this thread:

I found a flat already in Barcelona but eveything seems impossible without a NIE in spain. I tried opening a bank account in 6 different banks and all said its not possible. Some required me to have a passport which is just stupid because I only have a EU id where my address and everything is on and I never ever had a passport. On the other hand the landlords require me to have a spanish bank account to rent a flat...

After not getting an appointment in Barcelona I went to another province with EX15 and everything prepared and payed but she told me she cant give me a NIE for opening a bank account and for renting a flat I dont need one.

Second try after 2 hours of driving I tried what was written here and what is the truth: I want to be an autonomo and register at the tax office. I prepared a little letter describing everything and she told me she need an address in this province which I dont have. I expected the temporary NIE is for people that does NOT have an address in spain...

So now without the temporary NIE I cant become an autonomo and so I cant get the permanent green NIE. Also I cant open a bank account which is required to get the green NIE to showcase that I have enough money if I am no autonomo or employed...

i dont know what to do now and would be happy about any experiences and tips!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

rebl said:


> So now without the temporary NIE I cant become an autonomo and so I cant get the permanent green NIE. Also I cant open a bank account which is required to get the green NIE to showcase that I have enough money if I am no autonomo or employed...


I suspect the problem is terminology. There is no such thing as a green NIE (permanent or otherwise). The green card shows that you have signed on the list of foreigners residing in Spain.

You can certainly apply for a green card with form EX18 ,. No bank account is required but you will have to show proof of earnings or savings somehow. You will also need private medical health care.

You should be able to open a non-resident account with just your national ID and tax documents.

What nationality are you?


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