# The PITA Factor of being an Autonomo in Spain?



## Michaeltog (Aug 2, 2015)

Hi Folks,

Please excuse the unusual question. I am a independent freelancer working mostly for companies in the US and think about moving to Spain. I found already most of the info regarding registering, taxes etc. online, so I think the "objective" side of things I understood and think that taxes+SS are actually quite affordable for a EU country.

However, what I do not know is the PITA factor of dealing with the hacienda / authorities. I am a honest person and declare my income always, but I do not like endless discussions, documentations, investigations, infinite paperwork, time and money consuming accountancy etc. , so this is a big factor in my decision process of moving. 

Obviously, there is no objective answer to this, but maybe some of you self-employed guys can share your experiences of live in Spain? Any serious problems? How much stress is it? How much time do you have to invest in accountancy/documentation? Any comparison to a sole trader in the UK? Friendly People at the hacienda or do they suspect a fraudster in every autonomo? Problems in getting business expenses recognized as such? How long do tax refunds take? 

Thanks in advance!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Michaeltog said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> Please excuse the unusual question. I am a independent freelancer working mostly for companies in the US and think about moving to Spain. I found already most of the info regarding registering, taxes etc. online, so I think the "objective" side of things I understood and think that taxes+SS are actually quite affordable for a EU country.
> 
> ...


Most people employ a "gestor" who is a person who will take care of your monthly accounts and tax declaration. I don't as I'm a teacher and there's no added tax to pay, no quarterly returns etc so it's fairly easy. I find hacienda and Social security ok to deal with especially now that my OH set up the digital signature (which BTW has to renewed every 2 years and you will not get a reminder about it) so I don't have to go into the offices.
What you must look into before anything else is what visa you need if any. Your flags state that you are a Spaniard living in Spain, but you mention the US and I'm not sure what nationality you are.


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## Michaeltog (Aug 2, 2015)

Thanks for your advise and reply Pesky...I`m a German national, so there shouldn`t be any problem regarding the residency


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Michaeltog said:


> Thanks for your advise and reply Pesky...I`m a German national, so there shouldn`t be any problem regarding the residency


No, there shouldn't.
Perhaps you'd like to look at the FAQ's which tell you about what requirements eu nationals have to fulfil.
Autónomo payments are quite expensive here. I pay over 265€ a month. There is a cheaper rate for people starting now, but I think it's only for a few months and then it starts to rise. Here's some info, in Spanish.
Cuota de autonomos 2015 | Infoautónomos


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

I use a gestor to deal with all my paperwork - he & his colleagues do everything apart from teach my classes & write my invoices - & charge less a month than I earn an hour


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## Simon22 (May 22, 2015)

xabiachica said:


> I use a gestor to deal with all my paperwork - he & his colleagues do everything apart from teach my classes & write my invoices - & charge less a month than I earn an hour


Could you put an actual figure on that please? PM would be fine


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> I use a gestor to deal with all my paperwork - he & his colleagues do everything apart from teach my classes & write my invoices - & charge less a month than I earn an hour


Either you're earning a helluva lot more than me or you have an awesome gestor. Good find!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> Either you're earning a helluva lot more than me or you have an awesome gestor. Good find!


Awesome gestor. Don't forget I mainly teach groups. Which brings in 30 to 60 an hour


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> Either you're earning a helluva lot more than me or you have an awesome gestor. Good find!


Hey there,
I've just got back from your part of the world.
We had lunch in the garden under the tree, I suppose because the sun peeped out once every 10 mins.
I had on jeans and a fleece.
Everyone else was in short sleeves, although I did notice that my SIL had goosepimples 
Last night we had to give up and go inside. I had on my jeans, fleece, socks and a cotton scarf!
We did get to the beach in quite reasonable weather too though.

I didn't see any blond Americans pushing a pramreggers:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hey there,
> I've just got back from your part of the world.
> We had lunch in the garden under the tree, I suppose because the sun peeped out once every 10 mins.
> I had on jeans and a fleece.
> ...


Is this blonde American due to be pushing a pram already??!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> Is this blonde American due to be pushing a pram already??!!


As far as I remember it was a July due date:confused2:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> As far as I remember it was a July due date:confused2:


Wow time flies!


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hey there,
> I've just got back from your part of the world.
> We had lunch in the garden under the tree, I suppose because the sun peeped out once every 10 mins.
> I had on jeans and a fleece.
> ...


Hahahaha, isn't it lovely up here? 

Let me know if you ever go "into the mountains" north of Laredo to have lunch. I wouldn't be surprised if your ILs took you to a restaurant here that every Basque person seems to know. 

My little muchkin came a month early! He's doing quite well and I'm thrilled to have someone to speak English with, even though he just yells at me for now.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

Congratulations! My firstborn arrived seven weeks early, 1.7kg, but ended up the tallest in his class. They soon catch up!


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

Madliz said:


> Congratulations! My firstborn arrived seven weeks early, 1.7kg, but ended up the tallest in his class. They soon catch up!


Thank you! 

This is great to hear. It took him a while to pick up weight, but he did grow 4 cm this month! I get the feeling he might be like your firstborn!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> My little muchkin came a month early! He's doing quite well and I'm thrilled to have someone to speak English with, even though he just yells at me for now.


I love the bit in blue!
My daughter was also born a month early, but came in at 2.5k, so quite a difference to Liz's baby. As Liz says they do catch up, but in my daughter's case I'd say it took around a year in both motor and cognitive development
Anyway, many many congratulations and hope you enjoy this very special period


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I love the bit in blue!
> My daughter was also born a month early, but came in at 2.5k, so quite a difference to Liz's baby. As Liz says they do catch up, but in my daughter's case I'd say it took around a year in both motor and cognitive development
> Anyway, many many congratulations and hope you enjoy this very special period


my first was a day short of being officially 'prem' - 3 weeks early

& I was *very *grateful for that - she weighed in at 7lb14oz - that's 3.572kg..........


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I was *very *grateful for that - she weighed in at 7lb14oz - that's 3.572kg..........


!!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> !!!


her sister was 5 days before due date

she weighed in at 8lb5oz - that's 3.77 kg


that wasn't so much a PITA (as per the heading of this thread) - but a major PITsomewhere-else  

both births with no pain relief, btw.......


now - does anyone have anything more to say about the autónomo system ?? 

:focus:


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> her sister was 5 days before due date
> 
> she weighed in at 8lb5oz - that's 3.77 kg
> 
> ...


Being autónomo stinks for maternity leave!!


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## Dave&Alina (May 8, 2008)

Hopefully my experience is not the 'norm'.
My problem was my accountant completely misleading me as to what could be claimed for, filling in the tax return incorrectly by claiming my allowance twice and then submitting it without my signature.

I actually found the tax office quite reasonable (if you persist and get beyond the professional shoulder shruggers to the few who actually have a slightly better understanding of the system). They appreciated the accountant screwed up and gave me the the minimum sanction but said 'sue the accountant'. After 6 months I did get the fines repaid by the accountants insurance cover but he couldn't have cared less. He even advised lying to the tax office to try to avoid the sanctions.

My experience is thus: Not to trust an accountant in any way and to check what I am told myself (lots of Googling and helpful forums like this), there is no real professional body that oversees AND acts when a member of their organisation brings them into disrepute; Spain does not in any way encourage entrepreneurs (compare minimum cost of being self employed in the UK compared to Spain) as there is a viscous circle of mistrust by the state of the people and the people of the state.

You have to accept risks coming into a new system as it takes time to learn, I had a bad experience but I am not put off by it...just a lot more cautious and cynical of 'professionals' here.


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