# Applying for B2 visa outside home country



## englishpet (Jan 24, 2011)

My partner and I are from the UK. We entered the USA on the Visa Waiver Program (VWP). We would like to extend our stay over 90 days - we are amateur musicians and are meeting and playing with local musicians in the south (without payment of course!) 

We believe the best way to do so is to apply for a B2 tourist visa but understand that we cannot do this whilst in the USA. We would like to avoid returning back to the UK and wondered if anyone has had success in making a B2 visa application in a country that is not their home country. We were thinking about possibly Costa Rica or a country that is not adjacent to the USA but still close. 

The UCIS website suggests you can apply for a B2 visa in any country but it may be harder to prove ties to your home country. We have property, savings and family all in the UK but do not know if there is any chance of us getting such a visa when not in the UK.

Your advice would be much appreciated. We have a done a lot reading already but are looking for examples of those that have tried this and succeeded/failed. We look forward to hearing from you.

Many thanks.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

Don't apply for a B2 visa anywhere! It will be rejected, and your subsequent trips to the US will become more difficult or even impossible.

Also, spend at least 90 days out of the US before you try for entry on the VWP again.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

It will be extremely difficult if not impossible to explain that you or the other musicians involved do not receive compensation in some form or shape not to mention the need for up to 180 days in the US. The application may backfire:>(


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## englishpet (Jan 24, 2011)

Thank you all for your responses. 

Twostep - We understand that we will need to go to some lengths to prove that we are not receiving compensation and that we are not intending to immigrate (we have property, friends, family, savings etc etc all in the UK). We are here for tourism as well as music and visiting friends and family as well, so hope that will back up our application. Do you have experience of any firms that can help put together B2 applications?

We have read that it is possible to apply for a B2 in another country as suggested by a Lonely Planet Forum thread (as well as the UCIS): But we wondered if the 'expat experts' had any other examples of similar processes.

Fatbrit - thank you for your response. Do you mean we are not eligible for a B2 visa at all? I have spoken to UCIS and i they seem to think we are. Do you have any experience of the VWP? UCIS suggested that there was no necessary time that you needed to spend out of the USA in order to return (although i appreciate 24hours in Progresso will look more than a little suspicious!) Do you know of those who have been refused returning to the USA before 90 days on the VWP?

Many thanks and look forward to hearing from you.


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## Fatbrit (May 8, 2008)

englishpet said:


> Thank you all for your responses.
> 
> Twostep - We understand that we will need to go to some lengths to prove that we are not receiving compensation and that we are not intending to immigrate (we have property, friends, family, savings etc etc all in the UK). We are here for tourism as well as music and visiting friends and family as well, so hope that will back up our application. Do you have experience of any firms that can help put together B2 applications?
> 
> ...


You are certainly eligible to apply for a B2 visa, but in all likelihood it will be rejected. You mention only red flags against issue in your posts (musician, just had 90 days in US, family in US) and no mitigating factors, e.g. of retirement age. If the visa is denied, it will stay on your US immigration record forever, causing a higher likelihood of secondary inspections and/or denied entry. In some cases a B2 denial can lead to ESTA denial or revocation, which will, in effect, prevent you visiting the US as a tourist.

If you called USCIS on the 1-800 number, you spoke to a contracted call centre whose employees read from provided scripts. One thing that flummoxes those who have not lived here is the complexity of governmental organisation. USCIS (part of DHS) is responsible for domestic immigration matters. 
The totally separate State Dept, however, is responsible for the issue of visas. They make the decision whether to issue you a visa or not. When you arrive at the border, CBP (another separate agency under DHS) are the gatekeepers. For folks on the VWP (and to some extent the B1/2), CBP have wide discretionary powers. Thus, if you apply for a B2 you are applying to DoS, and when/if you arrive at the border you are let in (or not!) by CBP. As you see, USCIS wasn't even in the equation.

Re. Progresso, you cannot generally renew the I-94W (the controlling document for your stay) by travelling to adjacent land masses or islands.

I read of people being denied entry all the time. There's no written rule that says you can't knock on the door 24 hours after a 90-day stay. However, CBP have your visits on their screen and have wide discretion. If they think you are moving in (just been here, musicians, family here), they'll send you back after a tedious grilling in secondary processing. A good rule of thumb to keep your head under the radar is to spend at least as much time out of the US as you do in.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

englishpet said:


> Thank you all for your responses.
> 
> Twostep - We understand that we will need to go to some lengths to prove that we are not receiving compensation and that we are not intending to immigrate (we have property, friends, family, savings etc etc all in the UK). We are here for tourism as well as music and visiting friends and family as well, so hope that will back up our application. .


Some length is an understatement:>) Step to the other side of the fence - you have just spent 90 days in the US now you apply for a 180 days with potential extension and that from somewhere. The average annual vacation here is around 10 days. Where do you see friends and family as binding ties to the UK after just having spent a quarter of a year away and planning to tack half of a year on? 



englishpet said:


> Do you have experience of any firms that can help put together B2 applications?.


Any ambulance chaser aka immigration attorney will gladly take your money but it will make no difference. Have you gone through the application?




> We have read that it is possible to apply for a B2 in another country as suggested by a Lonely Planet Forum thread (as well as the UCIS): But we wondered if the 'expat experts' had any other examples of similar processes..


Who is UCIS? During the last year B1/2 applications have been more and more under the microscope. It is your gamble - get a B2 or loose VWP.



englishpet said:


> Fatbrit - thank you for your response. Do you mean we are not eligible for a B2 visa at all? I have spoken to UCIS and i they seem to think we are. Do you have any experience of the VWP? UCIS suggested that there was no necessary time that you needed to spend out of the USA in order to return (although i appreciate 24hours in Progresso will look more than a little suspicious!) Do you know of those who have been refused returning to the USA before 90 days on the VWP?.


You may have spoken with someone in a call center who can answer basic questions. The duration of your stay in the US be it VWP or B2 depends on the immigration officer at POE. Border crossing within the continental US do not count as being out of country by the way. I just had a case of grandmother being refused entry when she stated that she will take care of her new grandchild.




> Many thanks and look forward to hearing from you.


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## CBR600 (Sep 22, 2010)

Fatbrit said:


> Don't apply for a B2 visa anywhere! It will be rejected, and your subsequent trips to the US will become more difficult or even impossible.
> 
> Also, spend at least 90 days out of the US before you try for entry on the VWP again.


Hi Fat Brit,

I have been looking for information on B1/B2 visa having been refereed to the visa category by a US immigration lawyer. Almost every post I've read on the visa type you have replied to legitimate questions from people who are hold obvious concerns about their lives or futures in the US with one line replies consisting of what amounts "To forget it, you wont get a visa. Full Stop."

Being in the same situation as many of these people prior to getting professional legal advise ignorant posts like this are not helpful at all. If you haven't gathered people on here are looking for options and explanations for their questions. If you don't have a constructive answer, don't answer. For all I know you have a great knowledge of the US immigration system but it doesn't come across in your posts you simply come across just as the POE staff at customs do, arrogant, ignorant and the last person you'd want helping with entry problems.

Make it constructive or leave it out.

Regards,
Jason


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

CBR600 said:


> Hi Fat Brit,
> 
> I have been looking for information on B1/B2 visa having been refereed to the visa category by a US immigration lawyer. Almost every post I've read on the visa type you have replied to legitimate questions from people who are hold obvious concerns about their lives or futures in the US with one line replies consisting of what amounts "To forget it, you wont get a visa. Full Stop."
> 
> ...


On the funny side - yes US immigration lawyers are occasionally referees. Had we taken well paid for advise (1500/hr is well in my book) my elderly mother would have ended up in hot waters.

To keep it short and simple - the cards are stacked against OP. Too much time in US, no return to his home turf and who knows what is in the grey area of compensation from drinks to lodging to ... Would I ever support a gamble with someone's future? No! 

B1/B2 is a viable option - as long as you have your ducks in a row and it makes sense to those issuing the visa. Otherwise you give yourself a ball-and-chain for a number of years.


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## HelloKT (Feb 2, 2011)

CBR600 said:


> Hi Fat Brit,
> 
> If you haven't gathered people on here are looking for options and explanations for their questions. If you don't have a constructive answer, don't answer.


Sometimes there are no options. 
Sometimes the explanations would be obvious if you read back on this or other forums. 

A 'constructive answer' isn't necessarily the one you were hoping to get. In potentially complicated situations, such as that of this OP, it may be more constructive to warn them of the unlikelihood of their desired outcome, not to mention any further implications should they decide - as is ultimately their choice and risk - to go ahead anyway.

No one is going to give up on their real dreams purely because someone on a forum gave them a terse opinion. At best it'll prompt the asker to do more research, and either go ahead with the best preparation possible, or wait until a more realistic option presents itself. 

Because of the possible future difficulties with the VWP (something that we Brits take for granted) it's really important that the OP here knows that their visa situation/plan is not a case of 'give it a try, you'll never know'. 




CBR600 said:


> in your posts you simply come across just as the POE staff at customs do, arrogant, ignorant and the last person you'd want helping with entry problems.


Being introduced to the POE staff's point of view/attitude at this point - safely on your computer, rather than straight off an 11-hour flight that cost you $xyz - is a fricking gift! By the time you get to that POE desk, all the non-binding and pleasant-sounding advice you got on a helpline (or internet forum) is next to useless. Forewarned is... etc.


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## BlackBelt (Jan 18, 2011)

englishpet said:


> My partner and I are from the UK. We entered the USA on the Visa Waiver Program (VWP). We would like to extend our stay over 90 days - we are amateur musicians and are meeting and playing with local musicians in the south (without payment of course!)


The visa waiver program does not allow extensions. You will have to get a B2 visa.



englishpet said:


> We believe the best way to do so is to apply for a B2 tourist visa


Correct.



englishpet said:


> but understand that we cannot do this whilst in the USA.


Correct. After the 09/11 terrorist attacks you can't apply or renew visas inside the US.



englishpet said:


> We would like to avoid returning back to the UK and wondered if anyone has had success in making a B2 visa application in a country that is not their home country. We were thinking about possibly Costa Rica or a country that is not adjacent to the USA but still close.


As far as I know this is simply not possible; you have to go to a consulate in the country of your primary residency. You could only use the US consulate in Costa Rica if you were a legal resident in Costa Rica. I know because I am on somewhat similar situation, everytime I need to renew my H1B visa I have to return to Brazil... Me and my wife have to spend a lot of money in plane tickets, plus travelling for over 20 hours each way...

I hope I have helped.

Cheers.


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

BlackBelt said:


> Correct. After the 09/11 terrorist attacks you can apply or renew visas inside the US.
> .


you of course meant to say CANNOT APPLY


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## BlackBelt (Jan 18, 2011)

Davis1 said:


> you of course meant to say CANNOT APPLY


Ops, a typo. Edited and fixed, thanks!


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Davis1 said:


> you of course meant to say CANNOT APPLY


You can extend B1/B2 while in the US.


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

twostep said:


> You can extend B1/B2 while in the US.


That was not the statement ...it was apply or renew 

although technically you can extend your status you 
cannot extend the visa


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## BlackBelt (Jan 18, 2011)

twostep said:


> You can extend B1/B2 while in the US.


Extend, not apply. The original question was about applying for, not extending. The user is in the US under the visa waiver program.


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## englishpet (Jan 24, 2011)

Dear All,

I thought you might be interested to hear how this panned out. Contrary to the pessimism expressed by Fatbrit, twostep and others about getting a B2 visa, we succeeded.

We needed to return home to the UK anyway, so about a month after returning from the USA we applied for a B2 visa and were successful. The interviewer was more than happy to accept that we had run out of time on the ESTA and wanted to do more travelling in the USA. 

They did not ask to see any proof of income (though did ask us where the money was coming from) or query why we wanted to return so quickly.

I'd like to advise those in a similar situation to take the warnings of "you will be refused no matter what" with a pinch of salt. This visa business is really complicated and I am grateful for anyone who has taken the time to help with my problems, and I understand that responses to visa problems should always err on the side of caution, but i realise now that we didn't need to be pessimistic about our chances of success, just realistic.

It's still not clear whether we could have applied for a visa in a country outside the UK, but if you have been to the the USA on an ESTA and want to apply for a B2 and think you have valid, honest reasons to go back the DO IT! 

There is still a chance we'll get turned away at the airport...I'll let you know!


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

Thank you for the update ..well done .. but our advice would probably not change 
less than 50% of applicants get the visa


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Congratulations! I am glad it turned out for you. Just to humor me - you returned to the UK and applied there:>)


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