# Family Reunification VISA for Germany



## anubhavbisht

Hi All,

I am Indian national living in UK for about 2 years. i have recently married to German national and now we are planning to move to Germany. i want to apply for Family reunification Visa but i have some questions regarding it.

a) Is it a visa stamped on passport or Residence permit like DL as in application form it says National visa but in Document list it says Residence permit and you will be able to work as soon as you arrive.

b) it says you can apply "Applications can be filed up to three months prior to intended date of immigration". what will happen if i fly after 3 months.

c) if its just a visa then what all other formalities i need to do after entering Germany.

d) Also i have Schengen visa for EU spouse Valid for a year and maximum stay for 90 days. Cant i just enter country on Schengen Visa and apply for residence permit inside Germany.

Thanks in Advance

Warm Regards
Anubhav Bisht


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## ALKB

anubhavbisht said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am Indian national living in UK for about 2 years. i have recently married to German national and now we are planning to move to Germany. i want to apply for Family reunification Visa but i have some questions regarding it.
> 
> a) Is it a visa stamped on passport or Residence permit like DL as in application form it says National visa but in Document list it says Residence permit and you will be able to work as soon as you arrive.
> 
> b) it says you can apply "Applications can be filed up to three months prior to intended date of immigration". what will happen if i fly after 3 months.
> 
> c) if its just a visa then what all other formalities i need to do after entering Germany.
> 
> d) Also i have Schengen visa for EU spouse Valid for a year and maximum stay for 90 days. Cant i just enter country on Schengen Visa and apply for residence permit inside Germany.
> 
> Thanks in Advance
> 
> Warm Regards
> Anubhav Bisht


a) It's a sticker in your passport valid for up to 90 days which then has to be converted into a residence permit (biometric card) at the local alien department.

b) You have to travel within the validity of your visa.

c) You and your spouse need to go to the local alien department (Ausländerbehörde) and apply for a spouse residence permit. Contact them to make an appointment and ask for necessary documents (at the very least registration certificate, health insurance, accomodoation, biometric photograph).

d) You can enter Germany on that if the visa is still valid.


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## anubhavbisht

Hello ALKB,

Thanks for the reply. I have some follow up question on this topic:

a) The visa valid for 90 days means that i have 90 days to enter the country or 90 days of stay after i enter the country.
b) What is the duration of stay allowed after entering the country and how long it takes to process Residence card in Germany.
c) We both live in UK and communicate in English. Do i need to pass language test while applying for Residence permit.
d) Do in this Residence Permit i will be able to work in near by countries like Netherlands or Belgium where i live in Germany but work in these countries?


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## ALKB

anubhavbisht said:


> Hello ALKB,
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I have some follow up question on this topic:
> 
> a) The visa valid for 90 days means that i have 90 days to enter the country or 90 days of stay after i enter the country.
> b) What is the duration of stay allowed after entering the country and how long it takes to process Residence card in Germany.
> c) We both live in UK and communicate in English. Do i need to pass language test while applying for Residence permit.
> d) Do in this Residence Permit i will be able to work in near by countries like Netherlands or Belgium where i live in Germany but work in these countries?


a) The visa has a validity of 90 days - you have to enter the country and apply for a residence permit within the validity of your visa.

b) See a), spouse residence permits are free of charge (possibly small charge for biometric card) and decisions are usually made on the spot. If not, you will get a document that states that you have an ongoing application which serves as proof that you have permission to stay until a decision has been made.

BUT!!

c) This is a bit of crucial information and can change all of the above. Is your spouse working in the UK? If yes, you can enter Germany under Surinder Singh rules as EEA national who has exercised treaty rights and spouse of EEA national. If you decide to go to Germany under domestic German immigration rules you will have to prove German laguage skills and/or complete a 660 hour integration course (German language and culture). This might be waived if you have a university degree. If you enter under Surinder Singh and apply for a residence card for family members of EEA nationals rather than a residence permit, you won't have to show language skills until you want to apply for indefinite leave.

d) No, both a residence permit and a residence card would only allow work in Germany. You can visit other Schengen countries for up to 90 days visa free, though.


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## anubhavbisht

ALKB said:


> a) The visa has a validity of 90 days - you have to enter the country and apply for a residence permit within the validity of your visa.
> 
> b) See a), spouse residence permits are free of charge (possibly small charge for biometric card) and decisions are usually made on the spot. If not, you will get a document that states that you have an ongoing application which serves as proof that you have permission to stay until a decision has been made.
> 
> BUT!!
> 
> c) This is a bit of crucial information and can change all of the above. Is your spouse working in the UK? If yes, you can enter Germany under Surinder Singh rules as EEA national who has exercised treaty rights and spouse of EEA national. If you decide to go to Germany under domestic German immigration rules you will have to prove German laguage skills and/or complete a 660 hour integration course (German language and culture). This might be waived if you have a university degree. If you enter under Surinder Singh and apply for a residence card for family members of EEA nationals rather than a residence permit, you won't have to show language skills until you want to apply for indefinite leave.
> 
> d) No, both a residence permit and a residence card would only allow work in Germany. You can visit other Schengen countries for up to 90 days visa free, though.


Thanks ALKB for the reply.
Yes she works in UK and i have University Degree (Bachelor of Technology).

Can you describe more about Surinder Singh Rule . I thought this was only applicable for applying Residence permit for UK. can you please explain how can i use this to apply for Residence permit as family of EU from UK for Living and working in Germany.

Will after this residence Card (Family member of EU ) i will be able to work anywhere in Europe including UK or still this will be only restricted to Germany?


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## ALKB

anubhavbisht said:


> Thanks ALKB for the reply.
> Yes she works in UK and i have University Degree (Bachelor of Technology).
> 
> Can you describe more about Surinder Singh Rule . I thought this was only applicable for applying Residence permit for UK. can you please explain how can i use this to apply for Residence permit as family of EU from UK for Living and working in Germany.
> 
> Will after this residence Card (Family member of EU ) i will be able to work anywhere in Europe including UK or still this will be only restricted to Germany?


Surinder Singh works the same way all over the EU. If an EEA national has exercised treaty rights in an EEA country that they do not hold nationality of, they can later return to their home country under EU freedom of movement rules.

You arrive in Germany and apply for a residence card for family members of EEA nationals. Your spouse will have to prove that she exercised treaty rights in the UK.

No, as I said in my last post, neither the residence permit (German laws) nor the residence card (EU laws) allow work outside of Germany. Work permits are a national matter. If you want to work in the Netherlands, you will both have to move to the Netherlands and apply for residence card there.

The only advantage of applying under domestic German immigration law would be that you would be eligible to apply for German citizenship after 3 years in Germany instead of after 8 years.

EDIT: If you want to work in the UK then why move to Germany? Just apply for residence card in the UK???


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## anubhavbisht

ALKB said:


> Surinder Singh works the same way all over the EU. If an EEA national has exercised treaty rights in an EEA country that they do not hold nationality of, they can later return to their home country under EU freedom of movement rules.
> 
> You arrive in Germany and apply for a residence card for family members of EEA nationals. Your spouse will have to prove that she exercised treaty rights in the UK.
> 
> No, as I said in my last post, neither the residence permit (German laws) nor the residence card (EU laws) allow work outside of Germany. Work permits are a national matter. If you want to work in the Netherlands, you will both have to move to the Netherlands and apply for residence card there.
> 
> The only advantage of applying under domestic German immigration law would be that you would be eligible to apply for German citizenship after 3 years in Germany instead of after 8 years.
> 
> EDIT: If you want to work in the UK then why move to Germany? Just apply for residence card in the UK???


Thanks ALKB,

The only difference between local Residence Permit and Residence Permit of family of EU is that i dont have to give language test in the latter one.

Also will i be able to apply citizenship in 3 years if i have later Residence permit


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## ALKB

anubhavbisht said:


> Thanks ALKB,
> 
> The only difference between local Residence Permit and Residence Permit of family of EU is that i dont have to give language test in the latter one.
> 
> Also will i be able to apply citizenship in 3 years if i have later Residence permit


German domestic rules (residence permit): 

- possible requirement to complete integration course (but unlikely if you have a university degree and in the current circumstances of rampant migrant crisis, there are simply not enough places available)

- Eligible for indefinite leave and/or citizenship after 3 years in Germany if requirements are met (language, income, etc.)


Surinder Singh rules (residence card):

- No language requirements but also not even eligible for integration course if you wanted one

- Eligible for indefinite leave after 5 years (if language and income requirements are met)

- Eligible for citizenship after 8 years (you might be able to finagle this down to 5 years if you apply for indefinite leave first after five years. Then, when no longer under EU rules, you could apply for citizenship as spouse of German national without waiting another 3 years but am not sure whether the naturalisation department will take offense at picking and choosing pathways like that.)


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## anubhavbisht

ALKB said:


> German domestic rules (residence permit):
> 
> - possible requirement to complete integration course (but unlikely if you have a university degree and in the current circumstances of rampant migrant crisis, there are simply not enough places available)
> 
> - Eligible for indefinite leave and/or citizenship after 3 years in Germany if requirements are met (language, income, etc.)
> 
> 
> Surinder Singh rules (residence card):
> 
> - No language requirements but also not even eligible for integration course if you wanted one
> 
> - Eligible for indefinite leave after 5 years (if language and income requirements are met)
> 
> - Eligible for citizenship after 8 years (you might be able to finagle this down to 5 years if you apply for indefinite leave first after five years. Then, when no longer under EU rules, you could apply for citizenship as spouse of German national without waiting another 3 years but am not sure whether the naturalisation department will take offense at picking and choosing pathways like that.)


Thanks a lot ALKB,

I see Residence Permit for favorable then Residence Card. One last question

While applying for Residence Permit will my Degree (Bachelor of Technology) grant me language exemption as in some site it says BA,B.SC,MA and M.SC only?


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## ALKB

anubhavbisht said:


> Thanks a lot ALKB,
> 
> I see Residence Permit for favorable then Residence Card. One last question
> 
> While applying for Residence Permit will my Degree (Bachelor of Technology) grant me language exemption as in some site it says BA,B.SC,MA and M.SC only?


That will be up to your case worker.

You will need to learn the language at some point, if you want to get indefinite leave.

Citizenship has its own special language test, so you will need to start learning pretty soon after arrival if you want to get you application in after 3 years.

Also, you will need German for daily life and finding employment. English-only jobs are rare.


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## anubhavbisht

Thanks a lot ALKB. I have started learning German on my own not sure it will be enough for a positive feedback from my case worker. 

Once again thanks a lot for your insight on the matter.

Warm Regards
Anubhav Bisht


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## anubhavbisht

Hi ALKB, just a quick question : let's say I enter the country after 60 days and my visa is valid for 30 more days. I apply for resident's card which will approximately take 3 months will I be able to work as soon as I applied and what will happen after 90 days? Do I need to exit the country and reply for entry visa or will I get any certificate that I applied and get to stay till my decision is made?


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## ALKB

anubhavbisht said:


> Hi ALKB, just a quick question : let's say I enter the country after 60 days and my visa is valid for 30 more days. I apply for resident's card which will approximately take 3 months will I be able to work as soon as I applied and what will happen after 90 days? Do I need to exit the country and reply for entry visa or will I get any certificate that I applied and get to stay till my decision is made?


When you hand in your application you will get a document stating that you have an ongoing application and have the right to stay until it is decided.


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## anubhavbisht

ALKB said:


> When you hand in your application you will get a document stating that you have an ongoing application and have the right to stay until it is decided.


Thanks and will be able to make application if i enter country in schengen visa?


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## telecom1678

ALKB said:


> a) The visa has a validity of 90 days - you have to enter the country and apply for a residence permit within the validity of your visa.
> 
> b) See a), spouse residence permits are free of charge (possibly small charge for biometric card) and decisions are usually made on the spot. If not, you will get a document that states that you have an ongoing application which serves as proof that you have permission to stay until a decision has been made.
> 
> BUT!!
> 
> c) This is a bit of crucial information and can change all of the above. Is your spouse working in the UK? If yes, you can enter Germany under Surinder Singh rules as EEA national who has exercised treaty rights and spouse of EEA national. If you decide to go to Germany under domestic German immigration rules you will have to prove German laguage skills and/or complete a 660 hour integration course (German language and culture). This might be waived if you have a university degree. If you enter under Surinder Singh and apply for a residence card for family members of EEA nationals rather than a residence permit, you won't have to show language skills until you want to apply for indefinite leave.
> 
> d) No, both a residence permit and a residence card would only allow work in Germany. You can visit other Schengen countries for up to 90 days visa free, though.



Hi ALKB,
Normally,authorties how much time takes after submitting the spouse permit application?


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## ALKB

telecom1678 said:


> Hi ALKB,
> Normally,authorties how much time takes after submitting the spouse permit application?


Under German immigration rules?

It's usually made on the spot, unless papers are missing or something doesn't add up. In that case you might have to come in again or wait a bit, that's up to the case worker.


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## ALKB

anubhavbisht said:


> Thanks and will be able to make application if i enter country in schengen visa?


Yes, if the visa is still valid.


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## anubhavbisht

Thanks ALKB, so usually you register to your municipal which takes one week and then apply for RC which can be 1 week to decide and it will take some time to come. So ideally I can get work authorisation in 2 weeks


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## ALKB

anubhavbisht said:


> Thanks ALKB, so usually you register to your municipal which takes one week and then apply for RC which can be 1 week to decide and it will take some time to come. So ideally I can get work authorisation in 2 weeks


Er, no.

You register your residence, which is done on the spot. You might need an appointment or arrive early and take a number to wait however long it takes. Systems for that differ from region to region and town to town. In Berlin, for instance, you need to make an appointment online for registration.

Invest a few Euro into getting more solid A4 registration certificates - one just in your name (your proof of address, keep it with your passport) and one in both your and your spouse's name (for residence card application).

Then you apply for RC and how long that takes depends on a) your case worker, b) your submitted evidence c) how busy the local authorities are - most work with minimal staff as everybody is pulled into trying to get to grips with the migrant crisis

There certainly is no one week guarantee. Once a decision is made, the BRP has to be printed at the Federal Printworks, that takes about 4 weeks.

As you are doing Surinder Singh, processing shouldn't take long, since your spouse doesn't have to exercise treaty rights in Germany but has to prove that she exercised treaty rights in the UK. BUT there are no guarantees about processing times and by EU law they can take up to 6 months.


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## anubhavbisht

OK. After registering with my municipal when I apply for RC I assume i will get a certificate before decision is made. Will I be able to work on that certificate?
I will be living with her family so in order to register at municipal or for RC what address proof I need letter from her father ??

Also i would like to apply under German doestic laws then surinder Singh Case as this will Speed up my citizenship process. What difference of documents are there in both cases.


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## ALKB

anubhavbisht said:


> OK. After registering with my municipal when I apply for RC I assume i will get a certificate before decision is made. Will I be able to work on that certificate?
> I will be living with her family so in order to register at municipal or for RC what address proof I need letter from her father ??
> 
> Also i would like to apply under German doestic laws then surinder Singh Case as this will Speed up my citizenship process. What difference of documents are there in both cases.


RC is Surinder Singh.

You are not applying for RC if you are applying under German rules. Under German rules, you apply for spouse residence permit and that will be decided on the spot unless something flags up.

You will need the registration certificate, proof of health insurance, your marriage certificate and its translation if it is not in German, proof of adequate accommodation (have your wife call the local Ausländerbehörde and ask what exactly they need in case of living with family), a biometric photo and probably some sort of information about how you are financing your cost of living.

Most municipalities and alien departments have web sites with forms to download and lists of required documents.

Is your wife doing any kind of research for this at all? She speaks German, so she'd probably find all of this in five minutes with an internet search: 

insert name of her hometown here + Ausländerbehörde

I don't have a cristal ball, so I can't guess how things are organised exactly where she is from.


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## anubhavbisht

Great. Thanks ALKB for all the help.


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## telecom1678

ALKB said:


> RC is Surinder Singh.
> 
> You are not applying for RC if you are applying under German rules. Under German rules, you apply for spouse residence permit and that will be decided on the spot unless something flags up.
> 
> You will need the registration certificate, proof of health insurance, your marriage certificate and its translation if it is not in German, proof of adequate accommodation (have your wife call the local Ausländerbehörde and ask what exactly they need in case of living with family), a biometric photo and probably some sort of information about how you are financing your cost of living.
> 
> Most municipalities and alien departments have web sites with forms to download and lists of required documents.
> 
> Is your wife doing any kind of research for this at all? She speaks German, so she'd probably find all of this in five minutes with an internet search:
> 
> insert name of her hometown here + Ausländerbehörde
> 
> I don't have a cristal ball, so I can't guess how things are organised exactly where she is from.


Dear ALkB,
After applying spouse permit, till my husband gets his permit, during in that period, will he able to work in an company or he has to wait for his spouse permit to start his work??


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## ALKB

telecom1678 said:


> Dear ALkB,
> After applying spouse permit, till my husband gets his permit, during in that period, will he able to work in an company or he has to wait for his spouse permit to start his work??


German immigration rules?

I don't know.

A decision is usually made on the spot, so he would get permission to work right away.

If for any reason, a decision has to be deferred to a later date, he will get a document confirming that he has an ongoing application. This would allow him to stay. I do not know whether he would be allowed to work under these circumstances but I suspect not. It might also be up to the case worker.


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## telecom1678

ALKB said:


> German immigration rules?
> 
> I don't know.
> 
> A decision is usually made on the spot, so he would get permission to work right away.
> 
> If for any reason, a decision has to be deferred to a later date, he will get a document confirming that he has an ongoing application. This would allow him to stay. I do not know whether he would be allowed to work under these circumstances but I suspect not. It might also be up to the case worker.


Thanks ALKB.


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