# Advice for a young family planning a move to Javea Spain



## KenandHolly (Aug 15, 2011)

Hello everyone,

My wife and I are new to this forum and would like some advice. Ive read this forum over the past week, and the friendly and knowledgeable crowd here has persuaded me to join and ask for advice.

My wife and I have a 4yr old daughter and a new born Son. We have decided to embark on a new life for us all and this email is pretty much our first step.(Other than choosing Javea as the destination.)

I am currently a serving Police Officer in the North East of England and my wife is a qualified accounts technician. We are both applying for career breaks in order to move to Spain. 

We would really appreciate advice on the following:

Is there much scope to finding work in Javea to give us time to find our way around before we consider starting up a business there. ( I am also a wall and floor tiler by trade). We are both willing to work pretty much anywhere in the area. Although my wife would only be working a few hours a week.

Does anybody on this forum work in any of the schools who could help us find our daughter a placement. Or any advice on who to contact in order that we can facilitate this ourselves.

How much is there to do in Javea and the surrounding area in relation to clubs and activities to keep my children amused. We are a very outdoor kind of family and would be looking to intergrate our children into the local community. Ie: watersports clubs / Tennis clubs / etc etc.

We have travelled to a few places in and around the East coat area of Spain and hope to make a trip to Javea in December for a week in order to visit the schools etc so look forward to seeing you there.

Kind Regards

Ken and Holly.


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

I will let other people answer in detail. I fear I don't have good news for you. You will struggle massively to find a job. Both yours and your wife's professions at this time are useless in Spain, so you would need to find work outside of these fields. There are thousands of tilers, brick layers and handymen all over the costas. Work is scarce and starting up your own business is not easy and expensive (even if you don't make any money, you still have to pay 250+ EUR a month for social security).

But by all means come over for a fact finding trip, but focus on job search instead of checking out clubs and recreational activities (those cost money and without a job there won't be much recreation I fear). Open your eyes to everyday life and realities (unemployment is massively high and the amount of unemployed expats who don't speak spanish are off the charts). If you are thinking of starting up your own business, talk to the expat business men around here, they can give you vital information.

Sorry to sound so negative, but over the last years I stopped counting the police men, accountants, carers, hair dressers and builders, who come to this forum dreaming of a better life in Spain and ignore the realities. They (often) don't bring any needed skills, don't speak the language and have no idea how hard the life in Spain can be, if you don't have a job or money.

So be open minded and do a LOT of critical research. In my opinion assessing the viability of you making a living should take priority over checking out schools and clubs  Anyway - I wish you all the best and hope you can make it work! It's a great country to live in, if a reliable job and income is sorted - without that, it may well turn into an absolute nightmare.


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## KenandHolly (Aug 15, 2011)

Thank you very much for your quick reply.

So, unemployment is high?? No different to the rest of Europe then. Ha. 
We are a positive family with a positive out look on life and we will continue that way throughout the tough times im sure.

We wont be moving accross until we have everything in place. We tend not to leave anything to chance. Especially when we have little ones to think of.

Do you live in Javea??


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## Seb* (Mar 22, 2009)

KenandHolly said:


> So, unemployment is high?? No different to the rest of Europe then. Ha.
> We are a positive family with a positive out look on life and we will continue that way throughout the tough times im sure.
> 
> We wont be moving accross until we have everything in place. We tend not to leave anything to chance. Especially when we have little ones to think of.
> ...


Well I wouldn't say no difference. 21.3% unemployment (youth unemployment is 40+%) is the highest in Europe! Compare this to the UK with 7.7% and Germany with 7.2%. Now go and compete with all those Spanish unemployed who speak the language perfectly.

Good to know you are not jumping the gun and only make the move if you can guarantee the success.

We are not living in Javea, we live a bit further south between Moraira and Calpe - nearly next door


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pretty much wherever you decide to settle in Spain, you will need an income. Admittedly, this will probably be less than you would need in UK, but much depends on where you go. On the costas and in the usual Brit areas, it may cost you 50%-150% more than in many other places and property costs will be like that or even more. 

I live in a village in the middle (approx.) of Andalucia and I am an OAP but my wife, my mother-in-law and I can live quite comfortably on my pension and even put some away. Our house cost 85,000€ and has (after spending 10k on it) five bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, five floors, a patio, a largish (28 sq m.) lounge/diner with chimenea and a (as yet) underutilised 42 sq m. attic (room for a couple more bedrooms and another bathroom). On the costas, that would probably set you back twice as much or even more. 

Forget the usual head-in-the clouds idea of starting a cafe/restaurant/bar/jobbing builder's, estate agency, etc, etc. Thousands have been there before you and the vast majority have either gone bust or done a runner with someone's deposit, etc. A few make it but they are few and far between.

Many former UK police officers come here after retirement and are seemingly quite well off (and they say that crime doesn't pay). However, don't think that being a former copper does you any favours when it comes to seeking similar work because all local authority and government posts are jobs for life and like gold dust (used to be) and can only be obtained through competition (called _oposiciones_) and there is a very loooooong queue.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Javea and the surrounding are very beautiful, my Father lived near there for donkeys years, in a place called Moriaira, I used to visit him often. I liked it there very much, but I live now in the Canarian archipelago, no winters!

You are wise to visit in December, I believe that is one of the coldest months.

Do you speak the language? if not why not enrol for classes, they begin in September.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

KenandHolly said:


> Thank you very much for your quick reply.
> 
> So, unemployment is high?? No different to the rest of Europe then. Ha.
> We are a positive family with a positive out look on life and we will continue that way throughout the tough times im sure.
> ...


he doesn't but I do

everyone is right in what they have said - work will be the biggest stumbling block

at the moment Jávea is buzzing - you can barely move for holidaymakers - it looks like the best summer for a few years, until you realise that the restaurants aren't full, but there is family upon family picnic-ing (how the heck do you spell that!!??) & BBQing on the beach

unemployment is high as the others said - higher than the rest of Europe & more than double the UK - & without fluent Spanish there are clearly even less jobs available to you


take the need to work out of the equation & it's a fantastic place to live - although rental prices are much higher than in the surrounding towns & villages

there's lots to do for families, & the state schools are great too - both my dds went to the Arenal school - my younger one is joining big sis in the secondary school in the port in a few weeks


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## KenandHolly (Aug 15, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> he doesn't but I do
> 
> everyone is right in what they have said - work will be the biggest stumbling block
> 
> ...



Great to hear from someone who lives there. TBH, working isnt of massive importance. We have enought money to rent for a year or more and just live the beach bum life style. What I dont want to do, is rent my house out back in England only to return to it a couple of years later when the savings have ran out. We are planning to make this move a permanent/very long term one. Giving my children the opportunity to learn in Spanish schools will be invaluable. If worst comes to worst I may have an extended 2 year break to give my daughter enough time to pick up the language. But its a life change we are planning. Not a holiday. 

baldilocks - Im not some fly by night cowboy trader. I dont intend on coming along fleasing folk out of deposits and high tailing it back to the UK. My head is firmly out of the clouds and resting nicely on my very able shoulders  And if you think for one minute im going to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire and attempt to work as a detective in another country you must be crazy. Ive done my bit for UK's failing society.


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## KenandHolly (Aug 15, 2011)

Hepa said:


> Javea and the surrounding are very beautiful, my Father lived near there for donkeys years, in a place called Moriaira, I used to visit him often. I liked it there very much, but I live now in the Canarian archipelago, no winters!
> 
> You are wise to visit in December, I believe that is one of the coldest months.
> 
> Do you speak the language? if not why not enrol for classes, they begin in September.


Hi,

I think it would more than definately be worth us learning the language at least a bit before we got there. That gives us a about a year. lol.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

KenandHolly said:


> baldilocks - Im not some fly by night cowboy trader. I dont intend on coming along fleasing folk out of deposits and high tailing it back to the UK. My head is firmly out of the clouds and resting nicely on my very able shoulders  And if you think for one minute im going to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire and attempt to work as a detective in another country you must be crazy. Ive done my bit for UK's failing society.


Hang fire there. Although you posted the original question, you will not be the only person who reads the thread and in fact a number of others who have a similar idea to you (moving to Javea or anywhere in Spain) will probably read it looking for information. 

Those comments weren't directed at you personally, it was a general statement directed at those who have the idea that it will be easy ("I've done a bit of DiY at home and can do a bit of plumbing, painting, plastering, electrics, tiling, etc so I'll set myself up to do a bit of that and get paid for it...") and then they find out that it isn't. There are many Spaniards who can do that sort of work as well and probably better because they know the local construction methods and materials and are also actively seeking work. 

It is, quite often, those who fail, who end up fleecing other Brits. Unfortunately because we are notoriously bad at learning the local language, we Brits tend to turn to other Brits to do our work and become the easy victim for the unscrupulous and they are well aware of that fact. They were bad enough in the UK ("I've got a bit of asphalt left over from another job and I just happened to notice that your driveway is in need of repair..." etc) Imagine what field days they can have here, especially when the victims have little knowledge of the language and don't know how to complain or even go to the police!

Yes, the role of some of us is to preach a bit of doom and gloom (be the Devil's Advocate, as it were) so that, before you come, you have your eyes wide open and don't fall into the over-complacency trap. Emigrating is often difficult for those of us who have no need for employment, it is even harder if one needs to have a steady job especially with a young family to care for.

I know you probably think you are already aware of all the pitfalls, but are you? You did after all ask for advice! We spent five years looking at where to retire and we didn't just plump for Spain or even Europe and we spent a considerable amount of that time identifying what we really wanted before we started looking for locations and property that might enable those plans to come to fruition. A visit to the rough area of where we thought might be suitable followed by several house-hunting visits (we looked at 72 properties!) ensured that we got it right first time - no rose coloured spectacles, no stars-in-our-eyes. I'm not of the age where I can put things down to experience and start all over again, that approach to life and living is just too expensive.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Don't know if you've seen this thread, but there's loads of advice (and heated debate) here.

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...g-spain/56434-do-you-want-emigrate-spain.html

You should also take a look at the stickies at the top of the page including the one about Education and also the economic situation in Spain


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

KenandHolly said:


> Thank you very much for your quick reply.
> 
> So, unemployment is high?? No different to the rest of Europe then. Ha.
> We are a positive family with a positive out look on life and we will continue that way throughout the tough times im sure.
> ...


Yes, very different from the rest of Europe...sadly. Overall unemployment is currently hitting the 21% mark and in Andalucia it's higher....nearly 34% in Estepona, for example.
Not only are there millions of Spaniards seeking work (and who really should be first in line for any jobs as the benefits here are not to be compared with those in the UK) but on top of that there's the thousands of British and other immigrants looking for jobs.
You need fluent Spanish to even get your foot in the door.
As Seb implied, there are flyers advertising tilers, carpenters, hairdressers etc on every tree and lamppost. Desperate people are willing to work on the black for peanuts and have to accept long hours. I know of an employer who is- shamefully - paying *4 euros an hour *to workers on her ranch.
Being positive is a good quality in any situation but positivity alone can't change the economic facts, alas.
The happy immigrants here are those who are retired with good incomes, people in professional jobs or other secure employment, people with UK businesses or spouses working abroad.
But you are so right in leaving nothing to chance, especially with children to consider.
Best to stay put - you have a very important, worthwhile job in the UK - and spend holiday time here combined with a facts-on-the ground recce.


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## moth (Sep 8, 2011)

Hi,
Javea is a great town to live in - I've been here 3 years. Something to bear in mind if you have only visited during the holiday seasons is that the population is quite small for most of the year. In the summer there are a lot of tourists but at the start of September this dramatically decreases, and then decreases again a week later.

Although many places stay open throughout the winter, some close and the town can have a slight ghost town feel to parts of it at times. I have lived in an apartment complex with 50 apartments but only 3 or 4 of these are permanently occupied, you get a few weekend occupiers but when 40+ apartments have their persianas down it can be very quiet.

So you may want to visit at some time during the autumn and winter to get a feel for it.

Having said all that, it is a brilliant town and I like it all year round. Hope you manage to make the move.

Cheers,
moth


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

If you can afford to move to Spain for 1 year, without having to rely on an income then by all means come !

- However, you would be well advised not to burn any bridges in the UK (maybe keeping and renting out your property in the UK until you are certain of your move)

- Don't rely on getting any well-paid or secure employment quickly, if at all. At this moment in time you will be lucky to find any work at all, legal or otherwise.

- Rent before you decide to buy incase you decide against the are, or that life in Spain is not for you.

- In this area of Spain almost all state schools teach Valenciano in preference to Castilian, meaning that your daughter will have to learn 2 foreign languages at the same time.

- Children in state schools start when they are 3 years old, and enroll in May of each year, so you would need to assume that your daughter will miss the first 2 years of school - you may need to think about either getting her some language lessons, or holding her back a year to enable he rto cath up with the language.


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## angela1 (Nov 21, 2009)

I thought of moving to Spain a few years ago after a family member moved. I did lots of research both in the Costa Blanca and at home online. My advice would be stay in the UK. 

Everything said previously is very accurate, I could have written it myself.

My relative is a teacher and got a job teaching full time. They had a large sum in cash when they went out there. They have returned home with no money and feel life here in the UK is better than in Spain. Even with a full time teachers salary it was not enough to live on.

I'm told tens of thousands have recently left Spain for the UK. From what I have seen I couldn't disagree with that. I hear the car parks at the airport are full of cars that have been left by people leaving Spain. My relative tells me almost every ex pat wants to go home but cannot as they have houses that will not sell.

I am a solicitor and my husband works in the oil industry. We have a child aged 6. We were going to relocate to Spain. I would retire, husband would still work his 150 days per year with a good income. We though of having a more relaxed, nice, outdoors way of life so looked at Spain. I want my child to be fluent in another language. After research we decided life in Scotland is better.

What has been said about ex-pats ripping people off is true. Much has been written about this here and elsewhere. There will be a vast amount of ex pats you would not want to be friends with. The Spanish education system in my view is not great and neither are some of the British private schools in Spain. Again, search this forum about the Spanish education system.

The cost of living in my view is about the same in the UK. 

You will not get any work in Spain.

Your oldest child will be speaking Spanish in 6 months to a year. 

If you still want to go ahead and go to Spain then it must be on the basis you take a career break, rent out your house, have enough money to live on for the length of your career break and return home. If your happy to do that then go ahead.


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## leedsutdgem (Jun 3, 2010)

angela1 said:


> I thought of moving to Spain a few years ago after a family member moved. I did lots of research both in the Costa Blanca and at home online. My advice would be stay in the UK.
> 
> Everything said previously is very accurate, I could have written it myself.
> 
> ...


Hi Angela, 

Im sorry but if you have not experienced the spanish education system then how can you say its not great? My 5 yr old daughter goes to spanish state school and is academically miles ahead of her 5 yr old cousin in Belfast. A friend of mine who is a primary school teacher in Gib (teaching the UK curriculum) was looking through my daughters work and couldnt believe how advanced the system here is. 

Im sorry but i am sick and tired of people coming on here and slating the education system, the health system etc. Think you should take a look first at the state of the uk before you talk about other countries.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

leedsutdgem said:


> Hi Angela,
> 
> Im sorry but if you have not experienced the spanish education system then how can you say its not great? My 5 yr old daughter goes to spanish state school and is academically miles ahead of her 5 yr old cousin in Belfast. A friend of mine who is a primary school teacher in Gib (teaching the UK curriculum) was looking through my daughters work and couldnt believe how advanced the system here is.
> 
> Im sorry but i am sick and tired of people coming on here and slating the education system, the health system etc. Think you should take a look first at the state of the uk before you talk about other countries.


what you say is true...........there is nothing wrong with the state education system here

my dd just finished 3º ESO - a lot of the maths & science she did last year is way ahead curriculum-wise of the GCSE - and she has another year to go yet before she gets to_graduado_ which would be the equivalent of GCSE exam time...........so what will she do this year? I don't know yet - but logically, it must head into A level territory

yes a large minority (30% ? ) leave school with no qualifications, but that is their choice - they will have been held back to give them the chance to improve their grades - there is nothing to stop them staying at school past the legally required 16 to attain _graduado_ - they *choose* to leave at the earliest opportunity

I ahve also experienced the 'International school' scene...........and sadly have to agree that not all are great, in fact some are downright appalling..........but you have a choice - you don't have to use the [email protected] ones - you can _choose_ a good one.............


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> what you say is true...........there is nothing wrong with the state education system here
> 
> my dd just finished 3º ESO - a lot of the maths & science she did last year is way ahead curriculum-wise of the GCSE - and she has another year to go yet before she gets to_graduado_ which would be the equivalent of GCSE exam time...........so what will she do this year? I don't know yet - but logically, it must head into A level territory
> 
> ...


There will always be divided opinions when it comes to education. After a while I think you just come to acept that the approach to education is different, and each one has its pluses and minuses.
The older the children get the more difficult it is for them to swap between each system because of subjects taught and also the way they are taught. Also, in Spain we have the "repeat the year option" which doesn't exist in the UK. To a British mind there is the idea of being a "year behind" whereas to a Spanish mind it's that the child has "repeated a year" and there's a subtle difference in that.
If people are thinking of staying a couple of years to see how it goes, or think it's a good idea to come to Spain to enrich their children's experience it's probably best to do this in primary so as not to muck up their secondary education.


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> There will always be divided opinions when it comes to education. After a while I think you just come to acept that the approach to education is different, and each one has its pluses and minuses.
> The older the children get the more difficult it is for them to swap between each system because of subjects taught and also the way they are taught. Also, in Spain we have the "repeat the year option" which doesn't exist in the UK. To a British mind there is the idea of being a "year behind" whereas to a Spanish mind it's that the child has "repeated a year" and there's a subtle difference in that.
> If people are thinking of staying a couple of years to see how it goes, or think it's a good idea to come to Spain to enrich their children's experience it's probably best to do this in primary so as not to muck up their secondary education.


Very well put Pesky :clap2:

Education is an extremely emotive subject, and little is gained by trying to argue that one system is 'better' than any other. 
It might be flattering to be told that you are studying at a level above your age at Spanish school, but is it really a race?? At the end of your education, you should have a clutch of qualifications which opens the appropriate doors to employment/further education. Whether that means in Spain or in the UK (or anywhere else for that matter) boils down to a myriad of personal choices and decisions and not just a simple toss up between Spanish or British education. 

As the regulars know, my children are at International School. My eldest passed his A levels this summer (A*, A, A) and is setting off to study Economics at Loughborough University in two weeks time. If you pick the right school for your children, they will thrive.
Actually, one of the graduates is going to study Medicine at Madrid University. She gained 3 C's and an A at A level. Another is studying Medicine at Kings in London and had to get 3 A's at A level, pass a separate exam and attend an interview. Just shows the value that the Spanish Uni's put on British qualifications doesn't it....


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> There will always be divided opinions when it comes to education. After a while I think you just come to acept that the approach to education is different, and each one has its pluses and minuses.
> The older the children get the more difficult it is for them to swap between each system because of subjects taught and also the way they are taught. Also, in Spain we have the "repeat the year option" which doesn't exist in the UK. To a British mind there is the idea of being a "year behind" whereas to a Spanish mind it's that the child has "repeated a year" and there's a subtle difference in that.
> If people are thinking of staying a couple of years to see how it goes, or think it's a good idea to come to Spain to enrich their children's experience it's probably best to do this in primary so as not to muck up their secondary education.


yes - 'the repeat the year option'

as PW knows, in primary, even numbered years can be repeated - in secondary - every year can be

in secondary they also have the opportunity to resit the subjects they have failed, in September, before the new school year starts so perhaps not have to repeat

my elder dd was very ill last school year, and failed half of her subjects simply because she was too ill to actually take the exams - because we didn't yet have a diagnosis, in fact we had a mis-diagnosis (we do now know what the problem is, and it seems to be under control), the school wasn't interested in supporting her or cutting her any slack

she did her resits last week & passed - so won't have to repeat - but if she HAD had to we, and she, were looking upon it as an opportunity to improve her grades for the year - yes, _graduado_, bacci & uni would have been delayed a year - but that's all - delayed - not made impossible


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## angela1 (Nov 21, 2009)

leedsutdgem said:


> Hi Angela,
> 
> Im sorry but if you have not experienced the spanish education system then how can you say its not great? My 5 yr old daughter goes to spanish state school and is academically miles ahead of her 5 yr old cousin in Belfast. A friend of mine who is a primary school teacher in Gib (teaching the UK curriculum) was looking through my daughters work and couldnt believe how advanced the system here is.
> 
> Im sorry but i am sick and tired of people coming on here and slating the education system, the health system etc. Think you should take a look first at the state of the uk before you talk about other countries.


I am delighted your daughter is doing so well and that you are delighted with the Spanish education system. A child's education is so very important.

You are correct to say I have not experienced the Spanish education system, I have not. I simply did a great deal of research and gathered as much information as I could before reaching my conclusion.

Much has been written over the past decade on this subject, much of which stated the education system had been chronically underfunded, however, over the past few years that has changed. I have no experience of the UK education system, only Scotland and then only the area on the outskirts of Glasgow where I live. 

Our local state school is the best performing in the country. I live in what is termed an "affluent middle class" area where people pay a great deal for property in order to send their children to the local schools. As a result of that the area is one of the few in the UK where house prices are still increasing. Almost all children go to University, many of whom study medicine, law, dentistry and a handful go to Oxford/Cambridge. My personal view is based on that.

Education of my child is the most important criteria in my decision to relocate somewhere. If someone asks on this forum for advice on relocating to an area that I have looked at I think it only fair that I respond and help and give my personal view in order to assist any decision they may make. It is a matter for them to accept or reject that help/assistance/opinion.

Spain produces many well respected academics, doctors, pilots, lawyers, dentists etc. Clearly those people have received a good Spanish education system.

I did not mention the Spanish health service. Again, from my own personal experience it is much better that the Scottish one.


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