# advice welcome



## familymove (Jun 7, 2012)

hi,
This is my first post. After reading lots of your posts over the past few weeks i thought id write one and ask for you advice.

Myself, my husband, 3 children who are 5,2 and 14 months, and our dog are starting to plan our move to costa blanca. I have read lots of your posts and realise that now is not the best time to come and look for work. As we have 3 very young children we will not be rushing into anything untill we can garantee ourselves an income. But we are starting to make plans.

I am writtting this post for advice on what it is realy like to live in spain and if the eucation system is better than England. From what i have read re schools they seem to be alot more structured in what they do compared to here. My 5 year old started reception last september and it is a complete battle to get her there as she is so bored.
We feel that we all need a new challenge and a better way of life.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.


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## djfwells (Sep 28, 2009)

All I would say is you can not do enough reading, researching and planning. 
But on the opposite side of the coin, you need to be flexible and adaptable enough to cope if and when none of your plans come to fruition.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Spain is a harsh country. Its very much family orientated and people tend to rely on their families more for support than the UK - its not a nanny state, there is little support if you have problems or even if you dont. Welfare and healthcare isnt free unless you pay into the Spanish system and thats that, YOU are responsible for whatever you do and have - no big brother to help or advice. Also its easy to be ripped off or conned by unscrupulous or desperate people, so you do have to be on your guard if you need any services/plumbers/gardeners etc

The Spanish seem a lot more relaxed on health and safety issues and one of our favourite catch phrases was "you'd not see that in the UK" as we'd be overtaken on the inside by a motorcycle with a family of four + dog riding on it (altho illegal!!), or a construction worker dangling high up on a piece of rope painting a building. Temporary traffic lights are novel, usually a sleepy looking man with a stop/go board and a cigarette in his mouth lol!!! Driving is alot less careful than the UK and the roads and road markings very dusty

That said, mostly you will find other expats and you will form friendships and become part of whatever social structure you find yourself in. Day to day living is exactly the same as the UK, washing, cooking, cleaning (you sweep more than you hoover cos of the huge amounts of dust), shopping and trips to Mercadona, the school run..........Its all the same!!!! In the summer its hot, in the winter its cold, wet and windy. Houses dont tend to have central heating, insulation or carpets, so they tend to be very cold and not easy to get warm! The weather is more predictable than the UK and you can pretty much guarantee nice weather every day in the summer. Its too hot during July and August, but then you can swim, go to the beach and cool down. All in all its lovely, BUT, without an income or enough money its no fun at all, especially with kids who still have the same wants and needs as they do in the UK, The novelty of living in a hot country with a pool etc soon wears off.

Schooling, unless your kids go to an international school is in Spanish and is very much like the schools in the UK 50 years ago. Regimented and less playful, but in the main they are good. Are they better than the UK???? I wouldnt like to say, they are different and of course because everything is in Spanish you will have trouble with homework and parents evenings if you dont speak the language - altho you will have bilingual children fairly quickly. Then of course it will be your responsibility to teach them English, reading, writing, grammar etc

Sorry, I've rambled on somewhat, but thats how we found Spain. We came back last year due to my husband getting fed up with commuting to the UK for work and my kids wanting to go to a college in the UK. The contrast is stark. The UK is very easy to live in, the houses are warm and you know where you are. But I miss Spain and would go back in a heartbeat. But there is no work and no prospects of things getting any better sadly

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

familymove said:


> hi,
> This is my first post. After reading lots of your posts over the past few weeks i thought id write one and ask for you advice.
> 
> Myself, my husband, 3 children who are 5,2 and 14 months, and our dog are starting to plan our move to costa blanca. I have read lots of your posts and realise that now is not the best time to come and look for work. As we have 3 very young children we will not be rushing into anything untill we can garantee ourselves an income. But we are starting to make plans.
> ...


it isn't easy to live in Spain if you need to earn a living & support a family, even before the major unemployment/economic problems we are now experiencing............ however I would and am fighting tooth & nail to live here because we've been here nearly 9 years, my kids have grown up here & it's their home

until recently I would have said that the education system in Spain is way better than in the UK - but now I'm not so very sure - there have been, & will probably continue to be more, massive education cuts as far as supplies and teaching staff are concerned - & some schools have been without adequate heating/cooling and so on for at least a year now

if a teacher is absent, they don't bring in cover for at least 2 weeks, so sometimes kids are going without proper teaching in that subject - I reckon that this past school year at least one of my 2 girls has been without a teacher for one subject or other _every week_

there's no government safety net if things go wrong & you suddenly find yourself out of work - I'm self-employed, & if I lose all my business we will have _*no*_ help at all - _*nothing*_.

writing this I have to admit I wonder why we stay here - it would be easy to go back to the UK, sign on for JSA, get housing benefit etc etc & I was also registered disabled there so even more 'freebies'................ 

But Spain is home to us - there's no way though, I would recommend anyone with a family moving here atm - & 'they' reckon things won't improve til at least 2020


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> Schooling, unless your kids go to an international school is in Spanish and is very much like the schools in the UK 50 years ago. Regimented and less playful,
> 
> Jo xxx


I'd agree with everything else you posted - but our experience of Spanish state school is totally the opposite 

very relaxed, first name terms for everyone, teachers are allowed to hug students, lessons on the beach in primary school & PE includes rollerblading along the paseo!!

my girls have always had a lot of fun at school - which isn't to say that there is no discipline - there is - and the kids respect & show their respect for the teachers & everyone else much more than I have been led to believe schoolkids in the UK do

nothing seems regimented in the least - unless you mean the constant testing, 3 reports a year & lots of homework?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

It is unlikely that things will improve here for the next ten years and even then it won't be an easy life for people whether immigrant or Spanish.

No-one should be thinking of relocating to Spain unless they are retired and even then with a good income, have secure employment lined up, can work from home with a UK-based internet business or are single with no commitments and enough money to keep them fed and with a roof over their heads and with enough spare for the ticket home.

Immigrants to Spain now have to fulfil certain conditions such as proving they have sufficient income to support themselves.

That sounds harsh but it's sadly the truth.

Fact is, the talk about a 'Spanish dream' was hype...But the Spanish nightmare is an awful reality.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

State schools in Spain are not free in that you pay for books so that has to be taken into account when you have school age children,.. I think my daughter pays about 1000 Euros every summer to buy the books for her three children's schooling


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

MaidenScotland said:


> State schools in Spain are not free in that you pay for books so that has to be taken into account when you have school age children,.. I think my daughter pays about 1000 Euros every summer to buy the books for her three children's schooling


Last year we had to pay 1500 euros for our 3 - Bono Libre (help to pay for the books) seems to be a thing of the past.

They've also stopped school buses 'round here and also assistance if you live some way from the schools (used to be mileage allowance plus subsidised school meals).


We've also now got to pay towards bachi (6th form) - looks like being 80euros/month


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

MaidenScotland said:


> State schools in Spain are not free in that you pay for books so that has to be taken into account when you have school age children,.. I think my daughter pays about 1000 Euros every summer to buy the books for her three children's schooling


yes, that's something which comes as a shock to a lot of people


the_ education_ is free - the _supplies_aren't - right down to having to buy paints etc for art class


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Last year we had to pay 1500 euros for our 3 - Bono Libre (help to pay for the books) seems to be a thing of the past.
> 
> They've also stopped school buses 'round here and also assistance if you live some way from the schools (used to be mileage allowance plus subsidised school meals).
> 
> ...




Yes my grandchildrens school is in the same boat... no mileage allowance or meals,

Water was cut off this year and they have been on strike one day a week for the past couple of months


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Last year we had to pay 1500 euros for our 3 - Bono Libre (help to pay for the books) seems to be a thing of the past.
> 
> They've also stopped school buses 'round here and also assistance if you live some way from the schools (used to be mileage allowance plus subsidised school meals).
> 
> ...


my elder dd is starting Bachi in September - we haven't been told anything about having to pay :confused2:


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

Two of my children would love to move here with their young families. They have even done a great deal of research to see if this is possible, and a few years ago this might have been the case.
Sadly, for all the reasons stated on this thread and more besides, I feel I would be wrong to encourage them to do so. 

And it isn't only education cuts that are a problem.
Once a child finishes school, or higher education, _there is most likely no work for them_, whatever their qualifications.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Solwriter said:


> Two of my children would love to move here with their young families. They have even done a great deal of research to see if this is possible, and a few years ago this might have been the case.
> Sadly, for all the reasons stated on this thread and more besides, I feel I would be wrong to encourage them to do so.
> 
> And it isn't only education cuts that are a problem.
> Once a child finishes school, or higher education, _there is most likely no work for them_, whatever their qualifications.


yes, and that's the next worry

I am completely resigned to my kids leaving Spain either for or after Uni - but then, why wouldn't they? Didin't I have itchy feet & want to experience a different country

I'm pretty sure they won't be heading to the UK though, if their very vocal opinions are anything to go by


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## familymove (Jun 7, 2012)

wow, thank you all for your replies and opinions we will take everyone on board.

We have a lot to think about and are not going to rush into anything.

we were aware that you had to pay for school suplies so will have to budget for that aswell.
The school system apears to be better from what ive read, but that is going from personal experience of system here and personal opinion. Eucation is our main concern an will do more research. My next question was going to be once they left school what were the prospects but you have answerd that for me and will have to think on about that.

What is the healthcare like? I do understand that you can acess this one you have a job.

My husband works with a bank at the moment but also has an English degree that he has never been able to use here due to lack of jobs so it does happen here to. Although you do have a 'saftey net' if anything were to go wrong here which i believe spain doesnt have.

Our main reason for thinking about moving is that we want our children to grow up somwhere which is family orientated, a better quality of life we realy do not like this country for many reasons. They need to be challenged at school an im getting nowhere with the eucation system here, it seems that it doesnt matter if you are above average there is no support system.

Anyway im going on a bit!!!, thanks again for all of your comments


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## lynn (Sep 25, 2008)

familymove said:


> wow, thank you all for your replies and opinions we will take everyone on board.
> 
> We have a lot to think about and are not going to rush into anything.
> 
> ...


If you are just looking for better education, I'd start exploring it in your own back yard before moving to Spain! My three children went to UK state schools until the eldest was 16. I planned things so that we always had access to 'good' state schools, and I have to say, they all received a fantastic education! If the current school isn't good, why not look for a better one? There are plenty of resourses published to start your research (ofstead reports, the good schools guide, exam results etc etc) backed up by visiting schools and talking to other parents.... and all in English!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

familymove;806455
. They need to be challenged at school an im getting nowhere with the eucation system here said:


> Why would you need support if you are 'above average', I wonder?
> Every school has to identify 'Gifted and Talented' children, which frankly is a bit of a farce because when I was a Headteacher you had to produce a set percentage as being G&T.
> 
> I think Lynn is right...the UK system is often criticised but the Spanish system has its critics too. It performed worse than the UK in the last Pisa tables, if I remember rightly - I'm not sure, though. I am sure though there are very many good schools in your area. As Lynn says, look up recent OFSTED Reports.
> ...


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## familymove (Jun 7, 2012)

We are thinking about this move for other reasons than schooling but this is our main concern and needs a lot of research.
When my child started school we did lots of research, reading and visiting schools in the area and further a field. We move house so we could get her into our first choice, we did not enter into it lightly i did not just put her in our local school, like you I planed and but unfortunatly it has not worked out.
She is bright but i did not say gifted and talented [although i have looked into this!!!]. A child does need support whatever level they are at as if left they will become bored and refuse to go to school.

Thank you for you replies


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

familymove said:


> We are thinking about this move for other reasons than schooling but this is our main concern and needs a lot of research.
> When my child started school we did lots of research, reading and visiting schools in the area and further a field. We move house so we could get her into our first choice, we did not enter into it lightly i did not just put her in our local school, like you I planed and but unfortunatly it has not worked out.
> She is bright but i did not say gifted and talented [although i have looked into this!!!]. A child does need support whatever level they are at as if left they will become bored and refuse to go to school.
> 
> Thank you for you replies


Coming to Spain with your child's education -and future - as your main concern is not a good idea.
I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about a child needing 'support'. Do you mean one-to-one teaching? Smaller classes? Verbal encouragement?

I would say that you are less likely to get any of these in Spain than in the UK.

My advice as an experienced classroom and Head Teacher would be to look further into the problems your child is experiencing with her current school. As Lynn says, it might be better to try a different school near to you. 
Then if your child shows enthusiasm for learning you will know that a change was indeed needed.
But if she is still unhappy or unwilling to go to school there may be other reasons.

Coming to Spain will not solve those problems you mention. There are no teaching assistants in most Spanish schools and from what I have been told by Spanish teacher friends the set-up is more formal and much less pupil-centred than in the UK. This may not suit your child...

I don't think you mentioned the age of your child...If she has already sat her Standardised Assessment Tests you will know how she ranks both in comparison to her peers and how the school ranks nationally.


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## James3214 (Jun 25, 2009)

familymove said:


> Our main reason for thinking about moving is that we want our children to grow up somwhere which is family orientated, a better quality of life we realy do not like this country for many reasons. They need to be challenged at school an im getting nowhere with the eucation system here, it seems that it doesnt matter if you are above average there is no support system.


Considering your reasons for wishing to move, have you considered other EU countries such as Germany, France, Belgium, Holland or even the Scandinavian countries? Most, if not all have a good quality of life, more economic stability, and your children will certainly be challenged at school.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

James3214 said:


> Considering your reasons for wishing to move, have you considered other EU countries such as Germany, France, Belgium, Holland or even the Scandinavian countries? Most, if not all have a good quality of life, more economic stability, and your children will certainly be challenged at school.


there are plenty of unemployed Spanish people moving to Germany for work


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## James3214 (Jun 25, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> there are plenty of unemployed Spanish people moving to Germany for work


I know. I am attending Spanish lessons from one!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

James3214 said:


> I know. I am attending Spanish lessons from one!


well done you 

are you planning a move ?


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

familymove said:


> I am writtting this post for advice on what it is realy like to live in spain and if the eucation system is better than England. From what i have read re schools they seem to be alot more structured in what they do compared to here. My 5 year old started reception last september and it is a complete battle to get her there as she is so bored.
> We feel that we all need a new challenge and a better way of life.
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to read this.


It would be very unusual for even the brightest 5 year old to be "bored" because they are not challenged enough at school. After all, even if the "work" is well within their capabilities, the whole idea of school is still so new. The routine, discipline, new people, etc all take a bit of getting used to. These days school involves so much additional and new activities that it is hard to believe a child could be bored already.

I think it more likely that your child is aving problems for some other reason - maybe they aren't used to the routine and discipline, or is having trouble making friends? I'd look to getting to the root of these problems and trying to resolve them, or they are likely to recur - and maybe magnify - where ever you go.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

familymove said:


> I am writtting this post for advice on what it is realy like to live in spain and if the eucation system is better than England. From what i have read re schools they seem to be alot more structured in what they do compared to here. My 5 year old started reception last september and it is a complete battle to get her there as she is so bored.
> We feel that we all need a new challenge and a better way of life.
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to read this.


It would be very unusual for even the brightest 5 year old to be "bored" because they are not challenged enough at school. After all, even if the "work" is well within their capabilities, the whole idea of school is still so new. The routine, discipline, new people, etc all take a bit of getting used to. These days school involves so much additional and new activities that it is hard to believe a child could be bored already.

I think it more likely that your child is having problems for some other reason - maybe they aren't used to the routine and discipline, or is having trouble making friends? I'd look to getting to the root of these problems and trying to resolve them, or they are likely to recur - and maybe magnify - where ever you go.[/QUOTE]

That is generally -but of course not always - the case. Like adults, children often carry their problems with them.
It's important to liaise with the school and to find out how this 'boredom' manifests itself.....is it just through reluctance to attend school? Are there behaviour issues? Could there be other factors like bullying?
It's highly unlikely that a move to Spain will solve this particular problem. A Spanish teacher friend tells me that primary schools have a much more rigid and formal ethos than that of the UK where primary education is still largely 'child-centred'.

Pesky would know about Spanish primary schools....


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## familymove (Jun 7, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> It would be very unusual for even the brightest 5 year old to be "bored" because they are not challenged enough at school. After all, even if the "work" is well within their capabilities, the whole idea of school is still so new. The routine, discipline, new people, etc all take a bit of getting used to. These days school involves so much additional and new activities that it is hard to believe a child could be bored already.
> 
> I think it more likely that your child is having problems for some other reason - maybe they aren't used to the routine and discipline, or is having trouble making friends? I'd look to getting to the root of these problems and trying to resolve them, or they are likely to recur - and maybe magnify - where ever you go.
> 
> ...


Firstly I would just like to thank you all on your comments about my child that none of you have ever met. I posted a couple of questions re spain and the subject seems to have moved onto how my child is getting on in an english school. I know exactly why she isnt getting on at her school and I am fully aware how the education system works here. I will repeat that this is not the main reason for us looking to move. Thank you for your time


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

With children your age I'd not consider a move to a non English speaking country in a million years, just not fare on them in my opinion. I'd be looking to Canada, New Zealand or Australia, forget Europe. At least in those countries you have no language barrier which is a fantastic position for any immigrant to be in, to move and be able to communicate is an incredible bonus to have. Spain is great if you have a solid income/pension, no fun without these days and things may not get better before they leave School.

I'm not having a go at you but I really can't understand how anyone would even think of moving to a country on the verge of economic collapse, that has no benefit system to help when things go bad and where you can't speak the language; thats just crazy in my opinion.


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

familymove said:


> Firstly I would just like to thank you all on your comments about my child that none of you have ever met. I posted a couple of questions re spain and the subject seems to have moved onto how my child is getting on in an english school. I know exactly why she isnt getting on at her school and I am fully aware how the education system works here. I will repeat that this is not the main reason for us looking to move. Thank you for your time


I'm sorry you feel that way about some of the advice given (but of course, you did ask for advice...).
I will admit, that I also would not be happy to have my thoughts about the education of any of my children questioned.
However, you have been given some very helpful advice about education in Spain, so I hope this helps you and your family, whatever decision you make.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

familymove said:


> Firstly I would just like to thank you all on your comments about my child that none of you have ever met. I posted a couple of questions re spain and the subject seems to have moved onto how my child is getting on in an english school. I know exactly why she isnt getting on at her school and I am fully aware how the education system works here. I will repeat that this is not the main reason for us looking to move. Thank you for your time


I think what the advice here does tell you is that the people on the forum know, care and understand about education. So altho you may find their advice too intrusive, it means that they understand and can point out the differences between Spanish and British education and can offer informed and very knowledgeable advice. 

My children went to an international school in Spain and, IMO it gave them the best of both worlds, a private, British education with the strong influence of other nationalities, other cultures, small class sizes, discipline and self worth . Of course it wasnt cheap, altho not as expensive as sending them to a private school in the UK. 

As for your reasons to move, education, as you have already pointed out is and should be "top of the list", but of course isnt going to be your only motivation

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

familymove said:


> Firstly I would just like to thank you all on your comments about my child that none of you have ever met. I posted a couple of questions re spain and the subject seems to have moved onto how my child is getting on in an english school. I know exactly why she isnt getting on at her school and I am fully aware how the education system works here. I will repeat that this is not the main reason for us looking to move. Thank you for your time



OK - so it's not the main reason you want to move

but maybe it should be one of the main reasons you _*don't*_ move to Spain

even a few months ago I'd have said that providing you have an income then go for it with kids their age - but the education system here, along with just about everything else, is in a mess right now


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## familymove (Jun 7, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> OK - so it's not the main reason you want to move
> 
> but maybe it should be one of the main reasons you don't move to Spain
> 
> even a few months ago I'd have said that providing you have an income then go for it with kids their age - but the education system here, along with just about everything else, is in a mess right now


Thamk you this is the reason I came on here to find out about spanish schools. We are in the research phase at moment. Have been out a couple of times aswell. My husband will have a job but if the schools and healthcare are a worry at min then we might have to re look at situation.


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## familymove (Jun 7, 2012)

bob_bob said:


> With children your age I'd not consider a move to a non English speaking country in a million years, just not fare on them in my opinion.


Can I ask why? Appart from the language? (which even my 2 year old is getting the hang of, only basics but its a start!) Just wondering if id missed anything?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

familymove said:


> Can I ask why? Appart from the language? (which even my 2 year old is getting the hang of, only basics but its a start!) Just wondering if id missed anything?


actually I don't understand that either

your kids' ages (all under 5?) are perfect for moving to a non-English speaking country & learning the language quickly & in natural way

it's just a shame Spain is in such a mess atm


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

familymove said:


> Firstly I would just like to thank you all on your comments about my child that none of you have ever met. I posted a couple of questions re spain and the subject seems to have moved onto how my child is getting on in an english school. I know exactly why she isnt getting on at her school and I am fully aware how the education system works here. I will repeat that this is not the main reason for us looking to move. Thank you for your time


YOU were the one who told us about your 'bright' child and his/her problems at school...that seems to have escaped your memory

We gave helpful advice and comments which you obviously didn't want to hear.

You also insinuated that concerns over your child's education was indeed the principle reason for wanting to move.

Now let's bring a note of realism into things.

When you say your husband 'will get a job' I take it you are referring to the fact that he will find work in the UK. It is very unlikely that he will find work in Spain. Six million Spaniards are looking for work. You say he has an 'English degree'. 
That in itself is unlikely to push him further up the jobseekers queue.

Things are extremely tough here and likely to get worse. Spain is no place for people who are dissatisfied with their lives in the UK, Germany or anywhere. 
The UK is paradise compared to Spain.

You mention the Spanish 'family life' and it is true that Spaniards are more family -orientated than many British people who tend to rank friends equal to family in importance.
But that is simply a matter of priorities and anyone can live a family-centred life anywhere in the world. You don't have to come to Spain to do that. 

People come on this forum asking advice about moving to Spain, education and other issues. Most people on this forum have lived in Spain for years and have experience of many aspects of Spanish life. Sometimes the advice we give doesn't fit in with what people want to hear. 

The only way to find out if our advice is sound is to come and see. If you are single with no family ties you have nothing to lose.
But if you have a family to consider, are not Spanish-speaking, have no job lined up or much prospect of getting one then relocating at a time of severe economic crisis and high unemployment is sheer folly.

You may not like to be told that but I'm afraid it's the truth.


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## familymove (Jun 7, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> YOU were the one who told us about your 'bright' child and his/her problems at school...that seems to have escaped your memory
> 
> We gave helpful advice and comments which you obviously didn't want to hear.
> 
> ...


I came on to this site to ask peoples opinions of spain, to get a view from people who acctually live there. I have took every single one of their points on board and in light of that we are doing more research and as I said before I am not about to jump on a plane and see if we can make it. I have other family to think about and their best intrests will always come first. Which again is why we are researching. I did not come onto this site to gain opinions of what I should do about my childs uk education. The bordem thing was a sweeping statement for what is acctually going on, which I did not come on here to discuss. My main concern if we move would be my childrens education wudnt it be a concern to anyone with school age children? Hense the research. In reference to my husbands job, we are fully aware of the lack of employment in spain and as my husband has a good job here in uk which allows him to travel why would he leave it. You are not aware of our situation so y would u comment so personaly where as others, most with children have given me advise and belive me we haven taken it on board. I do live in uk and if you want to call it a paradise then that is your opinion but it is certainly not mine I live here. You have no idea of all of our personal reasons for wanting to move so I can honestly say that you do not know us so y be so personal.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

familymove said:


> I came on to this site to ask peoples opinions of spain, to get a view from people who acctually live there. I have took every single one of their points on board and in light of that we are doing more research and as I said before I am not about to jump on a plane and see if we can make it. I have other family to think about and their best intrests will always come first. Which again is why we are researching. I did not come onto this site to gain opinions of what I should do about my childs uk education. The bordem thing was a sweeping statement for what is acctually going on, which I did not come on here to discuss. My main concern if we move would be my childrens education wudnt it be a concern to anyone with school age children? Hense the research. In reference to my husbands job, we are fully aware of the lack of employment in spain and as my husband has a good job here in uk which allows him to travel why would he leave it. You are not aware of our situation so y would u comment so personaly where as others, most with children have given me advise and belive me we haven taken it on board. I do live in uk and if you want to call it a paradise then that is your opinion but it is certainly not mine I live here. You have no idea of all of our personal reasons for wanting to move so I can honestly say that you do not know us so y be so personal.


Point taken.. Our forum does get a lot of people who come along with a vision of moving to Spain to escape the "horrors" of life in the UK (those so called horrors are in Spain too!). Many dont seem to know that Spain is in crisis or that living there is really not any different from the UK - apart from the weather - even that can be grim in the winter. So we do tend to try to convey how things are and make it clear that moving to Spain is far from the easy option. Our posts arent meant to insult, interfere or burst bubbles!

Jo xxxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

familymove said:


> I came on to this site to ask peoples opinions of spain, to get a view from people who acctually live there. I have took every single one of their points on board and in light of that we are doing more research and as I said before I am not about to jump on a plane and see if we can make it. I have other family to think about and their best intrests will always come first. Which again is why we are researching. I did not come onto this site to gain opinions of what I should do about my childs uk education. The bordem thing was a sweeping statement for what is acctually going on, which I did not come on here to discuss. *My main concern if we move would be my childrens education* wudnt it be a concern to anyone with school age children? Hense the research. In reference to my husbands job, we are fully aware of the lack of employment in spain and as my husband has a good job here in uk which allows him to travel why would he leave it. You are not aware of our situation so y would u comment so personaly where as others, most with children have given me advise and belive me we haven taken it on board. I do live in uk and if you want to call it a paradise then that is your opinion but it is certainly not mine I live here. You have no idea of all of our personal reasons for wanting to move so I can honestly say that you do not know us so y be so personal.


Look back over your posts. You contradict yourself.You say that concern for your child's education is.... and then tell us it isn't the main reason for considering a move to Spain. You were the one who gave personal information. People on this site cannot help anyone asking for advice unless they provide some personal information so I suugest you calm down and reflect...

The advice you have been given by *most* people -me, Lynn, Brocher, Bob-Bob - is that you will not necessarily improve your children's education by coming to Spain but as is your right you choose to ignore it and focus on what pleases you.

You may not see the UK as 'paradise' but believe me, many struggling British immigrants here, jobless, trying to survive on low pension incomes, stuck with property with negative equity which they can't sell would be more than happy to get a free ticket back to the UK with its generous welfare system, reasonably transparent bureaucratic and legal system, lower than 9% unemployment, provision for homeless families.

Try telling an unemployed, homeless Spanish family existing on less than £500 a month that the UK isn't comparative paradise. ........


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## familymove (Jun 7, 2012)

jojo said:


> Point taken.. Our forum does get a lot of people who come along with a vision of moving to Spain to escape the "horrors" of life in the UK (those so called horrors are in Spain too!). Many dont seem to know that Spain is in crisis or that living there is really not any different from the UK - apart from the weather - even that can be grim in the winter. So we do tend to try to convey how things are and make it clear that moving to Spain is far from the easy option. Our posts arent meant to insult, interfere or burst bubbles!
> 
> Jo xxxx


Thank you jo, all your advice has been taken on board. Can I ask if I may what attracted you to spain? As you say that you would like to go back?


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## familymove (Jun 7, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Look back over your posts. You contradict yourself.You say that concern for your child's education is.... and then tell us it isn't the main reason for considering a move to Spain. You were the one who gave personal information. People on this site cannot help anyone asking for advice unless they provide some personal information so I suugest you calm down and reflect...
> 
> The advice you have been given by most people -me, Lynn, Brocher, Bob-Bob - is that you will not necessarily improve your children's education by coming to Spain but as is your right you choose to ignore it and focus on what pleases you.
> 
> ...


I am aware that some of you feel that the education system is not better in spain. But that is personal opinion as is your everyright to say that, just as I believe structure is what my child craves and can not get here. So yes I am looking at a different style of school for my child and it is one of our main reasons for move (but not only the only reason). I think that at the end of the day we are trying to do what is best for our little family is that so bad


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

familymove said:


> I am aware that some of you feel that the education system is not better in spain. But that is personal opinion as is your everyright to say that, just as I believe structure is what my child craves and can not get here. So yes I am looking at a different style of school for my child and it is one of our main reasons for move (but not only the only reason). I think that at the end of the day we are trying to do what is best for our little family is that so bad



Doing one's best for one's family is what everyone should do. But moving to Spain at this time with your family situation as you have described it is not in anyone's family's best interests. You will find that opinion is shared by 99% of the posters on this forum.

As for the two education systems: it is not a matter of our opinions but of fact and experience. I have worked for thirty years in the UK education system ending as Head of a school. I think that makes my opinions slightly more valid than people who have worked in other fields. 
I have also worked for educational bodies such as Education International and have had dealings with Spanish teachers. I have just written a piece for a UK education journal on Spanish education so I am not entirely ignorant of the two systems.

I can't accept your comment that the UK system is 'unstructured'. Many experts feel that the National Curriculum imposes too much 'structure' on young children in Primary School. 
As you say you have researched, I'm assuming you are familiar with the National Curriculum, which all UK schools must follow?

Whether the Spanish primary system is more structured in terms of specified curriculum or expectations of discipline and good behaviour I cannot say from personal experience of having a child educated in a Spanish primary school. Others may be able to supply input here.

But I do think my experience both as School Leader and classroom teacher qualifies me to make general comments about the likely causes of a child's unhappiness at school, don't you?


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## familymove (Jun 7, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Doing one's best for one's family is what everyone should do. But moving to Spain at this time with your family situation as you have described it is not in anyone's family's best interests. You will find that opinion is shared by 99% of the posters on this forum.
> 
> As for the two education systems: it is not a matter of our opinions but of fact and experience. I have worked for thirty years in the UK education system ending as Head of a school. I think that makes my opinions slightly more valid than people who have worked in other fields.
> I have also worked for educational bodies such as Education International and have had dealings with Spanish teachers. I have just written a piece for a UK education journal on Spanish education so I am not entirely ignorant of the two systems.
> ...


Yes you may comment but when you make comment re my child when u do not know the situation it can amd prob wud put anyones back up. as I said before I am aware uk education system. Where was your article published if you dont mind me asking I would be interested to read this


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## Solwriter (Jan 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> I can't accept your comment that the UK system is 'unstructured'. Many experts feel that the National Curriculum imposes too much 'structure' on young children in Primary School.


Carrying on with this tangent....
I would have to agree with those 'experts'.
My granddaughter is considered (in want of a better word...) 'gifted' in her understanding of Maths and Science.
However, she struggles with English. Not because her understanding of English is poor - she has been reading (voluntarily) since the age of two and understands and can write about concepts which most children her age would struggle with.
But she cannot stick to the rigid guidelines required for answering English SATS questions.
We have been trying to guide her in the SATS way of answering a question, just to get her through. But it's hard work, as she is always looking for a more in-depth answer. 

So, with this in mind, I can understand some parents wishing to find another method of education for their child, other than the system which exists in England.

But personally, I do not think that the structure of teaching in Spain is likely to be more beneficial.
But of course that depends on the individual child.


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

familymove said:


> I am aware that some of you feel that the education system is not better in spain. But that is personal opinion as is your everyright to say that, just as I believe structure is what my child craves and can not get here. So yes I am looking at a different style of school for my child and it is one of our main reasons for move (but not only the only reason). I think that at the end of the day we are trying to do what is best for our little family is that so bad


No one has expressed any doubt that you are trying to do the best for your family, but rather have done their best to respond to the primary question you raised in your initial post - that of the education of your children.

As requested, several people have given you practical information, based on their personal and actual experience of the current state of the education system in Spain, but apparently you disagree - "I am aware that some of you feel that the education system is not better in spain. But that is personal opinion..." It seems you have already decided that Spain is better despite the cutbacks, etc which beset the system at the moment. I find it hard to understand how you can be so certain that your child will receive this superior, structured education in a school with no teacher on many days, no heating, water.... all the things described to you by posters with children in school, in Spain.

I am sorry if I was wrong in believing you, when you stated, quite clearly, that your 5yr child was having difficulty at school due to "boredom". From your reaction, I guess that your statement was inaccurate, and that your child is actually having difficulties for some other reason, which understandably, you find very upsetting and, again understandably, choose not to disclose to a bunch of strangers on a forum. 

I guess it was wrong of me to assume that what you wrote, was what you actually meant - and for that I apologise.

I do no believe there is a magic answer, there are "good" and "bad" schools and systems in both Spain and the UK - and what constitutes a good school differs for everyone. I would say, though, that in general the level of "support" in Spanish state school is likely to be less than in may UK schools. In the UK, there is great emphasis on offering special assistance to pupils with other "first" languages whereas most other nationalities operate a far more rigid system, wherupon, the emphasis is on the pupil to be able to cope - or not. In Spain, in particular, it is likely that hard pressed teachers will have far too many bigger issues to worry about, for them to be able to focus too much on any individual.

Your children are young, so there is no reason to believe they can not do well in Spain and grow up to be well adjusted, bilingual individuals. On the other hand, if they should experience any problem, for whatever reason, it may be even harder for them - and you - to deal with in a foreign country where there will be unfamiliar language, cultural and bureaucratic issues to deal with.

Your commitment to your family is evidenced by the fact you moved house so your child could be in your school of choice. Sadly, even this level of commitment does not seem to have worked for you on this occasion. I would hope that this would give you pause for thought - a change of house was not enough, are you really sure a change of country will do it?

PS. you asked for advice but you are, of course, free to ignore any that you do not agree with.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

familymove said:


> I am aware that some of you feel that the education system is not better in spain. But that is personal opinion as is your everyright to say that, just as I believe structure is what my child craves and can not get here. So yes I am looking at a different style of school for my child and it is one of our main reasons for move (but not only the only reason). I think that at the end of the day we are trying to do what is best for our little family is that so bad


it isn't personal opinion in my case - it's based upon experience - I & my children have experienced the education system in both countries & also in the USA

whatever 'structure' you feel you might get in Spain why would you want your kids to be in a school without water, gas or even electricity because the bills aren't paid

without basic equipment because it is broken & there is no money to pay for replacement

with holes in the roof & gaps around the windows, so that if, or should I say when, it rains (because believe it or not it rains A LOT) the school is closed 

with no teacher for essential subjects for 2 weeks before the school is permitted to get cover in when a teacher gets sick......... I would say that both my dds have had at least one teacher missing every week this past school year

with teachers & students striking every week in protest at the cuts



I could go on..........................


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

brocher said:


> I am sorry if I was wrong in believing you, when you stated, quite clearly, that your 5yr child was having difficulty at school due to "boredom". From your reaction, I guess that your statement was inaccurate, and that your child is actually having difficulties for some other reason, which understandably, you find very upsetting and, again understandably, choose not to disclose to a bunch of strangers on a forum.
> 
> *I guess it was wrong of me to assume that what you wrote, was what you actually meant* - and for that I apologise.
> 
> .


I'm glad that you wrote that...I share that view but thought that if I were the one to say so, some gentle soul would complain about my 'tone'

Since I don't have the skills or sensitivity to decode what people actually mean when they post I've nothing further to add to what's bee said already, especially by those who know first-hand how education in Spain works.

I think the OP should sort her child's issues in the UK. What would she do if she actually made it to Spain and the 'issues' persisted?


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## familymove (Jun 7, 2012)

> I think the OP should sort her child's issues in the UK. What would she do if she actually made it to Spain and the 'issues' persisted?


 how very rude how dare you say such things about people you do not know. I am not wasting anymore time on you mary. How very rude and out of order


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

familymove said:


> how very rude how dare you say such things about people you do not know. I am not wasting anymore time on you mary. How very rude and out of order


Mary speaks her mind and doesnt always apply tact lol!!! However, there is some possible truth in what she says. I had a similar issue. When we moved to Spain my daughter attended a Spanish school initially. We found it horrendous. The Spanish children wouldnt speak to her because she was British and the British children wouldnt speak to her because they deemed her snobbish! The teachers were unable to convey to me or to her any reassurance and getting her to school every morning became a battlefield with her screaming, hanging on to my leg as I tried to leave her. Altho the teachers were sympathetic, they wouldnt stand for any nonsense and would drag her into class. We managed to move her to another school where she was happier, but she decided she didnt like Spain, the Spanish or their language (a hormonal and stroppy 11 year old!!!). So she point blank refused to work. The school even arranged a councillor for her (spanish speaking), but that was pointless as my daughter simply wouldnt attend - in the end we caught her "bunking off" So we put her into an international school with her older brother. she was happy there and fortunately managed to catch up on the year she lost.

Back to the point. What do you do if your child doesnt settle in her new school in Spain. Its not easy to move them, The local town hall tells you which school your child will attend. I only managed it with my daughter due to her age and could ask to have her put into the local senior school. Its all a gamble and you simply have to eliminate as many of the risks as you can

Jo xxxx


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## James3214 (Jun 25, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> well done you
> are you planning a move ?


Maybe in 3-4 years time, yes, but I realized last week in Mallorca that I need to know more than just the way to 'farmacia'!

Sorry, 'familymove'. I don't want to hijack your thread, but have you considered anywhere else apart from Spain?


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## ChristChurch100 (Jun 10, 2012)

I have been following this thread since it started, and I have to say that while in the majority the information provided has been useful to the OP based on their original post, a couple of you have taken this completely away from what was required.
The OP originally asked for "...what it is realy like to live in spain and if the eucation system is better than England." They also mentioned that their child is bored at school as a reason for why they wanted to move.
I would assume that the OP has a network of friends and family to talk over the finer reasons of why they want to move, and what they really wanted was an answer to their original question. What in fact they have received from some people who have posted on here has gone far and above this. People have pretty much accussed them of lying when saying their child is bored and offered various other methods they should try as there are other reasons why their child is unhappy at school. Yet I assume none of you know the OP or have met their child personally to make such an assumption??
From this poster going from asking whether schools were better in Spain or England from people they assumed would have an idea, they basically been told that their child has "issues." Fingers crossed that the OP takes these with a pinch of salt and isn't marching their child down to the doctors for a diagnosis!
All in all, I don't think it is our places to assess the reasons why they want to make a move, but to offer the advice to the person who requests it. Not to make judgements and assumptions on what they might know and about their own personal situation. As was mentioned, boredom was a sweeping statement, so their may well be other issues going on, but who are we to debate, discuss or offer reasons?? Does any of that affect answers to the original question which was "...what it is realy like to live in spain and if the eucation system is better than England." I think not amateur psychologists......


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## chianti13 (Apr 3, 2012)

Wow this is certainly getting heated! I tend to stalk the forum to seek out advice without actually posting but I'm going to tentatively poke my head above the parapet today and bravely add my €2 worth...here goes...!!!

I can kind of see both sides of the issue here, having been in the same position as the OP for a number of years. My son has Aspergers and for love nor money I could not find a school that 'suited' him and therefore ended up going down the route of private education. His condition is enormously environmentally affected and over the last ten years (my Mother lives in Spain) we have visited Spain for months at a time (very long school holidays allowing) and so many of his issues disappear. I have wanted to move to Spain permanently for years but because of copious amounts of research on forums like this, reading the advice of these guys I knew that I would be in an 'out of the frying pan into the fire' situation. Unfortunately I earn just enough money to be over the threshold for any kind of financial assistance and about six months ago realised that I couldn't afford to pay school fees and eat/live at the same time so something would have to give. I duly gave notice at his school and resigned myself to the fact that this current term would be his last. About 4 months ago I received an excellent job offer which gives me a three year secured contract (renewable at the end of its term...hopefully!) fully funded (private) school placement for my son, relocation allowance, 3 months free accommodation and a housing and flight allowance every year. NOW i can move! I would never have dreamed of making the move without all of these things in place despite wanting it so badly and even now I know that if my contract isn't renewed there's a strong possibility that I'll be on a plane back to england with my tail between my legs! To not heed the advice of those with experience would have been a disaster for me (no matter how bluntly it's packaged!)so I do understand why these posters have said what they have. On the other side my experience here in England is less than favourable, I rent, I have no job security to speak of, I can't afford to continue with my son's schooling, i have no family within a 600 mile radius and every month is a struggle to keep my head above water...the cushion of the welfare state is certainly not helping me at all...unless I want to work less, kick back and take it easy in which case they'll happily take over my financial responsibility (or should I say the tax payers will!) ! It does go to show that EVERYONE's circumstance is different and there are still some people who will benefit from a move to Spain at this time (I think it's comparable to finding a golden ticket in a wonka bar!). Maybe I'm wrong but I think the posters DO want you to succeed and be happy in a long term move...that's why they're (not so tactfully) offering the advice you requested.

Good luck with whatever you decide and I really hope it all works out well for you


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## familymove (Jun 7, 2012)

Sorry, 'familymove'. I don't want to hijack your thread, but have you considered anywhere else apart from Spain?[/QUOTE]

No we havent as we realy love the paticular area in spain we have looked into. But now im not sure what we will do. Maybe"march our child down to the doctors" instead. Ha ha. I will find somewhere else to do my research!!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

ChristChurch100 said:


> I have been following this thread since it started, and I have to say that while in the majority the information provided has been useful to the OP based on their original post, a couple of you have taken this completely away from what was required.
> The OP originally asked for "...what it is realy like to live in spain and if the eucation system is better than England." They also mentioned that their child is bored at school as a reason for why they wanted to move.
> I would assume that the OP has a network of friends and family to talk over the finer reasons of why they want to move, and what they really wanted was an answer to their original question. What in fact they have received from some people who have posted on here has gone far and above this. People have pretty much accussed them of lying when saying their child is bored and offered various other methods they should try as there are other reasons why their child is unhappy at school. Yet I assume none of you know the OP or have met their child personally to make such an assumption??
> From this poster going from asking whether schools were better in Spain or England from people they assumed would have an idea, they basically been told that their child has "issues." Fingers crossed that the OP takes these with a pinch of salt and isn't marching their child down to the doctors for a diagnosis!
> All in all, I don't think it is our places to assess the reasons why they want to make a move, but to offer the advice to the person who requests it. Not to make judgements and assumptions on what they might know and about their own personal situation. As was mentioned, boredom was a sweeping statement, so their may well be other issues going on, but who are we to debate, discuss or offer reasons?? Does any of that affect answers to the original question which was "...what it is realy like to live in spain and if the eucation system is better than England." I think not amateur psychologists......


well that's what happens in forums - it's people posting & sometimes they give opinions which aren't asked for

also, it can often help to give better advice if we have more info - & if info is given without being asked for, then comments will be made

however - the OP has had a straight answer from several of us, including me - that _right now_ education in Spain is for pretty much sure not better than in the UK

my first post on this thread (#4) & other early posts did answer the question

it isn't easy living in Spain - & education here _isn't_ better than the UK...........


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

familymove said:


> No we havent as we realy love the paticular area in spain we have looked into. But now im not sure what we will do. Maybe"march our child down to the doctors" instead. Ha ha. I will find somewhere else to do my research!!!


you have had straight answers to your initial question - & from people who _*know*_

it isn't easy living here - & the education system isn't better than the UK - a year ago I'd have said 'it isn't easy living here - but the education system is better than the UK'

sadly that is no longer the case - whether your child has 'issues' or not is immaterial

I'd be surprised if you get different answers on any other forum where the posters actually live here, rather than in rose-tinted-specs-land


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## familymove (Jun 7, 2012)

chianti13 said:


> Wow this is certainly getting heated! I tend to stalk the forum to seek out advice without actually posting but I'm going to tentatively poke my head above the parapet today and bravely add my &#128;2 worth...here goes...!!!
> 
> I can kind of see both sides of the issue here, having been in the same position as the OP for a number of years. My son has Aspergers and for love nor money I could not find a school that 'suited' him and therefore ended up going down the route of private education. His condition is enormously environmentally affected and over the last ten years (my Mother lives in Spain) we have visited Spain for months at a time (very long school holidays allowing) and so many of his issues disappear. I have wanted to move to Spain permanently for years but because of copious amounts of research on forums like this, reading the advice of these guys I knew that I would be in an 'out of the frying pan into the fire' situation. Unfortunately I earn just enough money to be over the threshold for any kind of financial assistance and about six months ago realised that I couldn't afford to pay school fees and eat/live at the same time so something would have to give. I duly gave notice at his school and resigned myself to the fact that this current term would be his last. About 4 months ago I received an excellent job offer which gives me a three year secured contract (renewable at the end of its term...hopefully!) fully funded (private) school placement for my son, relocation allowance, 3 months free accommodation and a housing and flight allowance every year. NOW i can move! I would never have dreamed of making the move without all of these things in place despite wanting it so badly and even now I know that if my contract isn't renewed there's a strong possibility that I'll be on a plane back to england with my tail between my legs! To not heed the advice of those with experience would have been a disaster for me (no matter how bluntly it's packaged!)so I do understand why these posters have said what they have. On the other side my experience here in England is less than favourable, I rent, I have no job security to speak of, I can't afford to continue with my son's schooling, i have no family within a 600 mile radius and every month is a struggle to keep my head above water...the cushion of the welfare state is certainly not helping me at all...unless I want to work less, kick back and take it easy in which case they'll happily take over my financial responsibility (or should I say the tax payers will!) ! It does go to show that EVERYONE's circumstance is different and there are still some people who will benefit from a move to Spain at this time (I think it's comparable to finding a golden ticket in a wonka bar!). Maybe I'm wrong but I think the posters DO want you to succeed and be happy in a long term move...that's why they're (not so tactfully) offering the advice you requested.
> 
> Good luck with whatever you decide and I really hope it all works out well for you


Can I send u pm, it wont allow me?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

familymove said:


> Can I send u pm, it wont allow me?


she hasn't made enough posts yet for the PM facility to be activated


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## familymove (Jun 7, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> she hasn't made enough posts yet for the PM facility to be activated


Ok thank you


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## chianti13 (Apr 3, 2012)

familymove said:


> Can I send u pm, it wont allow me?


I think maybe it's because I haven't made 5 posts? I'm not sure maybe someone else can verify this? As I said I tend to scour the forum for advice rather than post myself!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

chianti13 said:


> I think maybe it's because I haven't made 5 posts? I'm not sure maybe someone else can verify this? As I said I tend to scour the forum for advice rather than post myself!


yes, it's 5 posts & a bit of patience 

why not join in a bit more, anyway - you know you want to


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## chianti13 (Apr 3, 2012)

Ha ha ha I'm far too timid for the likes of this forum! I tend to just sit back and gasp/giggle at everyone else's posts...I call it stealth surfing ;-)


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## ChristChurch100 (Jun 10, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> well that's what happens in forums - it's people posting & sometimes they give opinions which aren't asked for
> 
> also, it can often help to give better advice if we have more info - & if info is given without being asked for, then comments will be made
> 
> ...


Strangely enough, your comments are about schooling in Spain, so I agree are relevant. Its the ones calling the OP pretty much a liar and the ones telling the OP that their child must have other issues than simply being bored that I find off track, unhelpful and offensive. Do they answer the original question in any way?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

ChristChurch100 said:


> Strangely enough, your comments are about schooling in Spain, so I agree are relevant. Its the ones calling the OP pretty much a liar and the ones telling the OP that their child must have other issues than simply being bored that I find off track, unhelpful and offensive. Do they answer the original question in any way?


I hadn't noticed any calling the OP a liar - if you find any posts offensive use the report button







& I & the other mods will take a look


it's called thread drift - sometimes a poster will ask a question, be given an answer & gradually give more info which makes the original advice irrelevant - so sometimes it's good for things to drift

I have no idea if the OP's child does have 'issues' other than just boredom - but if she does, Spain might well be the worst place for her


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

ChristChurch100 said:


> Strangely enough, your comments are about schooling in Spain, so I agree are relevant. Its the ones calling the OP pretty much a liar and the ones telling the OP that their child must have other issues than simply being bored that I find off track, unhelpful and offensive. Do they answer the original question in any way?


Yes and no-one has called the OP a liar. That is in itself a rather tendentious statement. You read things that are not there. 

She asked, she got told and by people who have experience o0f the issue she asked about.

As someone with much experience of education in the UK and who knows a reasonable amount about education in Spain I will say this: the OP indicated that her child, whom she describes as bright, was bored and this was due to what she perceived as lack of structure. The child has I gather already been removed from one school and enrolled at another but still was not happy. She thought that moving to Spain where she seems to think education for primary pupils is more 'structured' would help her child.

Now I don't know this child or its mother and neither do you but I do know this from very long experience:when children who have problems and transfer to another school yet still experience problems, the solution to the problems/issues whatever you want to call them do not lie with the school. This is not always the case but it is usually the case. Now before you get worked up about what I have written note : this is a generalisation based on experience and isd not intended to refer to the OP's child of which I know only what she has said.

This is a mini-fuss about nothing. The OP herself gave personal details then objected to people referring to them. She asked for advice, was given it, didn't like it so got a strop on.
If you don't like or don't agree with a post, the answer is simple. Don't read it. Block the poster who offends you so much.
Telling people who have no personal interest in this topic and are giving up their time to give what they intend to be helpful advice 5that they are liars adds nothing to the thread.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

shall we let the "storm in a teacup" die out now 

Advice asked, advice given - end!

Jo xxxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

jojo said:


> shall we let the "storm in a teacup" die out now
> 
> Advice asked, advice given - end!
> 
> Jo xxxx




Agreed! But even you must be getting a tad tired of people asking for advice and not liking what they are told....Even you....


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## familymove (Jun 7, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Yes and no-one has called the OP a liar. That is in itself a rather tendentious statement. You read things that are not there.
> 
> She asked, she got told and by people who have experience o0f the issue she asked about.
> 
> ...


I will write one last time then delete this forum which is a shame as some people on here give good advise. Apart from you mary. Just for the record my child has only ever been to one school and is only 5 for god sake


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## ChristChurch100 (Jun 10, 2012)

Yet others see fit to assume the child does have issues and thats acceptable? Hmmm... While I see that threads go onto further topics, is that really one for this EX PAT forum? If the OP had hoped to gain this information, I have a feeling they would have chose a very different forum to discuss it in?!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Agreed!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

chianti13 said:


> Wow this is certainly getting heated! I tend to stalk the forum to seek out advice without actually posting but I'm going to tentatively poke my head above the parapet today and bravely add my €2 worth...here goes...!!!
> 
> I can kind of see both sides of the issue here, having been in the same position as the OP for a number of years. My son has Aspergers and for love nor money I could not find a school that 'suited' him and therefore ended up going down the route of private education. His condition is enormously environmentally affected and over the last ten years (my Mother lives in Spain) we have visited Spain for months at a time (very long school holidays allowing) and so many of his issues disappear. I have wanted to move to Spain permanently for years but because of copious amounts of research on forums like this, reading the advice of these guys I knew that I would be in an 'out of the frying pan into the fire' situation. Unfortunately I earn just enough money to be over the threshold for any kind of financial assistance and about six months ago realised that I couldn't afford to pay school fees and eat/live at the same time so something would have to give. I duly gave notice at his school and resigned myself to the fact that this current term would be his last. About 4 months ago I received an excellent job offer which gives me a three year secured contract (renewable at the end of its term...hopefully!) fully funded (private) school placement for my son, relocation allowance, 3 months free accommodation and a housing and flight allowance every year. NOW i can move! I would never have dreamed of making the move without all of these things in place despite wanting it so badly and even now I know that if my contract isn't renewed there's a strong possibility that I'll be on a plane back to england with my tail between my legs! To not heed the advice of those with experience would have been a disaster for me (no matter how bluntly it's packaged!)so I do understand why these posters have said what they have. On the other side my experience here in England is less than favourable, I rent, I have no job security to speak of, I can't afford to continue with my son's schooling, i have no family within a 600 mile radius and every month is a struggle to keep my head above water...the cushion of the welfare state is certainly not helping me at all...unless I want to work less, kick back and take it easy in which case they'll happily take over my financial responsibility (or should I say the tax payers will!) ! It does go to show that EVERYONE's circumstance is different and there are still some people who will benefit from a move to Spain at this time (I think it's comparable to finding a golden ticket in a wonka bar!). Maybe I'm wrong but I think the posters DO want you to succeed and be happy in a long term move...that's why they're (not so tactfully) offering the advice you requested.
> 
> Good luck with whatever you decide and I really hope it all works out well for you


The UK system is not good at coping with pupils with very special needs, I agree. I have had students in my school who have been diagnosed with Aspergers and whilst we did our best to ensure that everything possible was done to provide quality care and support we just didn't have the resources.
I do hope things work out for you.
THe OP will no doubt try all the Spain boards...she may get an answer she is happy with elsewhere.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> The UK system is not good at coping with pupils with very special needs, I agree. I have had students in my school who have been diagnosed with Aspergers and whilst we did our best to ensure that everything possible was done to provide quality care and support we just didn't have the resources.
> I do hope things work out for you.
> THe OP will no doubt try all the Spain boards...she may get an answer she is happy with elsewhere.


yes, she might - but it won't be true


my dd2 is dyslexic - neither the school nor the psychologist would ever actually agree to use the term 'dyslexia' - they did give her a tremendous amount of help though, once I'd been to see them & discussed possible strategies (in spanish of course), carefully avoiding the word...


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

ChristChurch100 said:


> Strangely enough, your comments are about schooling in Spain, so I agree are relevant. Its the ones calling the OP pretty much a liar and the ones telling the OP that their child must have other issues than simply being bored that I find off track, unhelpful and offensive. Do they answer the original question in any way?


I must say I'm pretty gobsmacked by the reaction to this thread by the OP and others. I've read and re-read the early posts by mrypg9 and myself, which I believe seem to caused such offense.

At no point do I see anything derogatory being said about either the OP or the child. All I read is genuine concern that a child may be suffering due to "issues" such as being bullied, or having difficulty in making friends; and that these problems may simply be more difficult to address in Spain, rather than lessened as the OP hopes for.

I also see no justification why other posters, who pointed out exactly how the school system is suffering at the moment, were also slammed.

Personally, I find it off track, unhelpful and offensive to suggest that myself, or anyone else here called the OP pretty much a liar or that their child must have other issues than simply being bored....


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

familymove said:


> I will write one last time then delete this forum which is a shame as some people on here give good advise. Apart from you mary. Just for the record my child has only ever been to one school and is only 5 for god sake


no need to leave - you have had good advice across the board - some you may wish to take, some you might not

on any forum you will get comments & advice you might not want - just like in 'real life' - you take away what you want



if there are any posters who's comments you don't want to see, there is an 'ignore' facility in USERCP


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Agreed! But even you must be getting a tad tired of people asking for advice and not liking what they are told....Even you....


 TBH, most of the time it doesnt bother me! In the end people only hear and read what they want to. The reason I feel so apathetic???? Cos I'm the same. When we were planning to move to Spain, no one could tell me what it would be like, no one could tell me that I wouldnt get work or that it was going to be a struggle NO ONE!! I KNEW BEST!!! - "she says sitting here in a very wet and cold UK having had to return cos of the economic situation". 

Theres always gonna be some clever devil who will do it and for whom it will turn out wonderful - no sadly it wasnt me and the odds are stacked, but all you can do is say things how they are and leave the rest to personal choice - after all, its all part of the fact finding. Theres no point in getting bent out of shape about it and I hate seeing squabbles on here, we have enough of those going on at home here today with it being wet and the kids irritating each other, not to mention the OH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jo xxxx


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

Not sure if I am allowed to join in as have only just joined, but it would be a shame if the OP does leave as there seems to be so much good information that is around, that will help her with her move to Spain. 

Obvioulsy I cant comment on the Spanish system, only UK, but thinking back to my two at age 5 one was an October birthday & the other June. 

The first was of course bored by the end of reception as at that point she was so much older than the others, could read etc 

At age 5, 6months is 10% difference in life span. The younger kids were still happy & content with what they were being offered, the older more frustrated, but it evens out as they get older.

I don't think this was a reflection of how boring the activites were is was just the difference in ages & abilities at that young age is vast. Some are ready to go on to the next new thing a lot earlier than others. Just a thought really, 5 seems a bit early to panic if indeed that is what is going on.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Tilley said:


> Not sure if I am allowed to join in as have only just joined, but it would be a shame if the OP does leave as there seems to be so much good information that is around, that will help her with her move to Spain.
> 
> Obvioulsy I cant comment on the Spanish system, only UK, but thinking back to my two at age 5 one was an October birthday & the other June.
> 
> ...


A sensible point! Thank you. I've avoided even mentioning the possibly problems or not - IMO at 5 its too young to start worrying about whether they're bored or not. We all get bored! The ability is learning to deal with and divert it into more positive channels! As for not wanting to go to school - tough!! Its the law, deal with it has always been my attitude with mine LOL 

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> TBH, most of the time it doesnt bother me! In the end people only hear and read what they want to. The reason I feel so apathetic???? Cos I'm the same. When we were planning to move to Spain, no one could tell me what it would be like, no one could tell me that I wouldnt get work or that it was going to be a struggle NO ONE!! I KNEW BEST!!! - "she says sitting here in a very wet and cold UK having had to return cos of the economic situation".
> 
> Theres always gonna be some clever devil who will do it and for whom it will turn out wonderful - no sadly it wasnt me and the odds are stacked, but all you can do is say things how they are and leave the rest to personal choice - after all, its all part of the fact finding. Theres no point in getting bent out of shape about it and I hate seeing squabbles on here, we have enough of those going on at home here today with it being wet and the kids irritating each other, not to mention the OH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxxx


Love this post Jo!

My thoughts are...

You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. 
If the OP doesn't give all the available info, like there's a child who has issues with school, we need to be near an airport, my elderly mother will be living with us in the winter, I have a camel that must come with us well, the advice and opinions that are given might not be correct. However, that does possibly leave the OP open to huge amounts of thread drift and comments being given on what they don't see as being the main focus of the thread.
It must be said that in my experience on the forum, as somebody else has already said, it seems most people only hear what they want to hear. They might not even be aware of it before they receive some posts, but the majority have already made up their mind what Spain is like before they become members.
A couple of days ago I said that I should ask people if they are sure they really want advice, and are they prepared for the fact that they might actually get advice that they don't agree with. Now I think we should all do that!


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## charlee (May 9, 2011)

familymove said:


> No we havent as we realy love the paticular area in spain we have looked into. But now im not sure what we will do. Maybe"march our child down to the doctors" instead. Ha ha. I will find somewhere else to do my research!!!


Again !!!! Another  Newbie left the forum !!!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

charlee said:


> Again !!!! Another  Newbie left the forum !!!!


Try again Charlee, I'm still not getting what you want to say!!

Ahh, now I've got it.

Yes it's a shame, but tbh I can understand *both* points of view...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

charlee said:


> Again !!!! Another  Newbie left the forum !!!!


I don't think it happens very often tbh :confused2:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Again !!!! Another  Newbie left the forum !!!
> 
> Try again Charlee, I'm still not getting what you want to say!!
> 
> ...



Sometimes it's more of a shame than others....
Does anyone remember Hombre?
He got in a verbal sparring match with a barely literate woman who claimed to be a high-powered business owner and who disagreed with him about something or other.
When he pointed out that she must have been very lucky to have got so far in life with her limited grasp of the English language he was fallen on like a ton of bricks by a couple of incensed posters. 
He was upset and left which was a loss as his posts were sensible, humorous and informative (and literate).
The complainers posted for a week or so - nothing noteworthy - then drifted away never to return.
Some posters you miss....while others....


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## familymove (Jun 7, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Some posters you miss....while others....


Arr thats nice mary will miss u too


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## charlee (May 9, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> I don't think it happens very often tbh :confused2:


often enough !!!


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## charlee (May 9, 2011)

:clap2:


mrypg9 said:


> Sometimes it's more of a shame than others....
> Does anyone remember Hombre?
> He got in a verbal sparring match with a barely literate woman who claimed to be a high-powered business owner and who disagreed with him about something or other.
> When he pointed out that she must have been very lucky to have got so far in life with her limited grasp of the English language he was fallen on like a ton of bricks by a couple of incensed posters.
> ...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

familymove said:


> Arr thats nice mary will miss u too


 Well I miss everyone who goes away without feeling that they've learnt something! The forum is IMO the first port of call on the journey. We try to help, we try to tell it how it is, sadly it isnt good right now and sometimes its hard to convey that without sounding offensive or rude. Mary can sometimes come across as mrs "Blunt" but she has a heart of gold and a wealth of knowledge, I always take note of what she says - even about politics (AAAAARRGGGHHHH!!!). 

Often words written lose their humour and emotion. So dont take offense, maybe you've both just misunderstood each other. But the facts remain and hopefully you've learnt something and you'll stay with us and ask more if you need to know anything else???!!!! At least we're honest lol!!!

Jo xxx


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2012)

Some of us do listen and are grateful for the advice.


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## familymove (Jun 7, 2012)

meetloaf said:


> Some of us do listen and are grateful for the advice.


I have listened and am greatfull for most of the advice!!!! And believe it or not have even taken some on board!! I took my rose tinted specks off years ago.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

meetloaf said:


> Some of us do listen and are grateful for the advice.


I remember you!

Are you here?

What are you doing?


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I remember you!
> 
> Are you here?
> 
> What are you doing?


We're in the last stages of preparation before leaving for Spain. We might be held up for a couple of weeks because of circumstances - and the sheer amount of work involved in packing up a house - but at least for the moment, the plan is to leave for Spain the first week in July. This seems to involve an inordinate number of forms, all of which require photos of different sizes. 

I'm often on the forum but I mislaid my password book and couldn't remember my login details. I found it today during a clear-out.. I've been following some of the threads with great interest, however, as you can imagine.

You don't get rid of me that easily ........


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## James3214 (Jun 25, 2009)

familymove said:


> I have listened and am greatfull for most of the advice!!!! And believe it or not have even taken some on board!! I took my rose tinted specks off years ago.


That's good to hear. I am sure you wouldn't have received the same response and discussions on another forum though! Reaching 10 pages in a couple of days is quite an achievement for your first post!


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

familymove said:


> Can I ask why? Appart from the language? (which even my 2 year old is getting the hang of, only basics but its a start!) Just wondering if id missed anything?


Why, education for one. 

You move and they fit in at a state school and learn Spanish, what happens when they get to 18, stay or go back to the UK, could you fund that x3?

Lets say your children don't fit in at state school could you afford the international schools x3 about €1500 a month?

Lets say your children all fit in well and you decide to pack up and go back to the UK, how would they feel about that.

The country is fast heading down the creek and the paddle has gone missing. One of you has a job but jobs are rare as Hen's teeth so are you happy with that level of security given there is no financial support available at all for you and the family?

Canada, NZ and Australia would mean no language problems, much easier for the children to fit in at School and make new chums, books are the same language, TV is the same language, the music is familiar, you can read the papers, listen to the news, much easier for you and your husband to find work, find new friends et al the list goes on. If you have the qualifications look at these places, Spain is no good for you or your children, the economy won't get 'right' for a decade or more, why on earth go there.

Your children your choice.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

familymove said:


> Arr thats nice mary will miss u too


*I will write one last time then delete this forum which is a shame as some people on here give good advise. Apart from you mary. Just for the record my child has only ever been to one school and is only 5 for god sake *



I give very good advice, it's just that some people don't want to hear it.

I see you are unable to let go

Let's get some perspective: anyone who has spent time on any other Forum will know that this Forum has the greatest number of regular posters than any other.
They will also know that the quality and tone of posts here is higher and better than other boards.
Yes, we lose some newer posters but in 99% of cases that is, frankly, no loss.
People do not have to be regular posters either....the Forum is there to provide information as well as a site for discussion.
When people ask for advice, I give it in plain terms. I have too much respect for the intelligence of 99% of posters on this board to use circumlocutions or hide my meaning in honeyed words.
Some people see bluntness as 'rudeness' - although they are often rude themselves, without realising it.
I am never rude. If I were, you'd know it and I'd be banned.
Some people get upset when a raw nerve is touched on, as I suspect is the case here. Since we are not psychics we cannot know what lies behind the words of the post.
If anyone doesn't like my posts the remedy is simple: put on Ignore. That is my advice to you as I shall be around on this Forum exchanging dialogue, information, opinions and jokes with PW, Jo, Xavia, Baldy, Sol, Alca, Brocher,Muddy, Stravinsky, Thrax....and the tens of other posters with whom I interact via the open forum or by pm without them falling in to a swoon when I write something they disagree with.

So...I shall be here long after some of these sensitive souls have departed. Any businessperson knows that one regular customer is worth ten fly-by-nights.

The fact this Forum has so many 'regulars' along with its very sensitive and sensible Moderators is the chief reason why it is flourishing where others have folded.

Unlike the OP I stick to what I write soI will not be replying to this thread which has long outlived its original purpose, whatever it was....


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