# cost of living vs. wages.



## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

I know that the cost of living in Oz is very high, but I dismiss the thought because for the most part, wages mitigate this. (or at least I'm hoping so.. ) 

But just now, I read about some Canadians who just came back from Australia and said how shocked they were that people who were making 100,000+ in wages were struggling on basic day to day living costs. (not too sure about that, but read on...)

One guy said that in North America and in the UK, people take things for granted. For instance, he wrote about the time that he went out to eat at a restaurant in Australia, and came back very hungry as they served him a small portion, but yet he had to pay triple what he'd pay in Canada. (One can of soda costed him 5 dollars) He said that this is not the case in the US, UK and in Canada where people throw the food out or are able to take leftovers home to heat up and eat the next day. (Personally, I think such wastage is sad, but anyway). Point is that supposedly, you can't do this in Australia cause the portions are much smaller and more expensive. This is just one example I read, but there are many like it, regarding petrol, rent, mortgages, etc. 

Although I believe that the cost of living is high in Oz, I am not so sure that people have a hard time living on a 100,000 salary. Is this really true? I know that it depends on family size and what your lifestyle is, but he didn't make it sound like these people who were struggling were necessarily overspending on useless items but quite the opposite: Australians are very hard working, but get so much less for their money.

Another thing - (this is my input now) - in the US and Canada (not sure about anywhere else) it's possible to receive a high wage but live in a low-cost area so that you'll get more "bang" for your buck. Is this possible in Australia? The people who were contributing to the experience basically said that if you're making a high salary in Oz, then it's because your nearby rents, food prices, etc are sky high as well, and there is no moving to a cheaper neighborhood with cheaper prices to save money - if your salary is high. He said that you'll know if your area is expensive by looking at wages. That if you receive a high wage, then expect to pay triple in food, gas, housing, entertainment, etc.

By the way, this post is not meant to be discouraging (don't give up on your dreams), but to help research comparable cost of living, wages, etc. Please do provide your inputs if the cost of living has really affected you, or has not affected you - for those of you who have lived/ visited / have family in oz, etc (if you feel comfortable doing so, of course).


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

oops, just found a similar post above - my apologies for the double thread. Thanks for your patience, mods.


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

there are people making 160k and are living without saving much and thereare those who make 80k, live comfortably and are able to save about 2-3k per month, it entirely depends on what your lifestyle is, if saving is a priority or eating out is. i come from India and have been taught the value of saving from day one, primarily because we got no benefits from the govt., we paid taxes and in return got nothing, medical, schooling etc, everything is on you there.. we manage a decent living and stil manage saving on one person's income, i am not working as of now. we do not eat out much, my husband carries lunch to office, i wont say it is difficult saving, one just has to prioritize things


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## xMarcusx (Nov 8, 2011)

Echoing the above, whatever your salary it is possible to enjoy a fantastic life in Australia. Yes somethings do cost more than in the Uk or US, like eating out at resturants or drinking in bars, which compared to the US or UK I have found is 2-3 times more expensive. Convenience food can be expensive but fresh food is generally not. So you adjust your your lifestyle to suit your pocket. (The only thing i have found which is cheaper which is really odd is dominos pizza.) 

Our family income is less than $100K we rent a 4 bedroom house in a nice suburb within easy commute of Perth, 800m from a fantastic beach, have two children in one of the local private schools. Sure I take my lunch to work every day and we perhaps only eat out 1 or 2 a month but have enough to live comfortably and manage to save. We spend our weekends at the parks or the beach we have our friends over for barbqs and drinks. 

There is no doubt our lifestyle has changed since we came from the UK but we have seen this as an investment in our own future, and our childrens, in moving to a great country.


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2011)

The cost of living in OZ (as in all other countries) depends on which city/suburb you live in, where you shop and where you dine. To provide a reality check, there are posh, snooty restaurants in America as well that will give you a paltry serving size for extremely high bucks. You can find similar examples in Japan, UK, France, everywhere. On the other hand, buying from the food courts in CBD Sydney, I felt they were making me eat more than a regular meal - I just couldn't stomach all of the goodness they give. The cost though was high - around 10 AUD for a one person meal. And if you add a health juice/shake that would add around $6 to your bill. Sodas are around $2 a trick. Your friend definitely ate at either an upscale restaurant OR from a touristy kinda place (those canteens/cafes/restaurants near tourist spots) if he got that price for a can of soda. In any case, that's in rather sharp contrast with the 3 USD all you can eat bashes in America (I think you'll be hardpressed to find that anywhere in Australia), but one thing is for sure - the food was healthy. No excessive oiliness/greasiness in the food. AND, this is the Sydney CBD we are talking about. As you move out, the prices definitely go down.

That salary of 100K+ will seem meager if you start living in the CBD with a high maintenance wife (     :tongue1: :spit: ) and three or four little tykes. You should ask your friends to fully disclose all such information before we can take it seriously. 

Finally, although the area you live in CAN indicate your income, it DOES NOT dictate your income.


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## DS3 (May 13, 2010)

stormgal said:


> I know that the cost of living in Oz is very high, but I dismiss the thought because for the most part, wages mitigate this. (or at least I'm hoping so.. )
> 
> But just now, I read about some Canadians who just came back from Australia and said how shocked they were that people who were making 100,000+ in wages were struggling on basic day to day living costs. (not too sure about that, but read on...)
> 
> ...


Hi,

Just for the record i make around 3k a month and we dont save anything at the moment but we are 03 of us....and we are fine. We are compromising very little ...taking the bus instead of buying a car and not eating/going out as frequently as we did in India. Nothing else has changed. And the moment my wife gets another 3k a month start up basic job even that will change. 

Warm Regards,

DS


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## _Sarah_ (Jun 27, 2011)

stormgal said:


> For instance, he wrote about the time that he went out to eat at a restaurant in Australia, and came back very hungry as they served him a small portion, but yet he had to pay triple what he'd pay in Canada. (One can of soda costed him 5 dollars) He said that this is not the case in the US, UK and in Canada where people throw the food out or are able to take leftovers home to heat up and eat the next day. (Personally, I think such wastage is sad, but anyway). Point is that supposedly, you can't do this in Australia cause the portions are much smaller and more expensive.


Trust me to comment on food 
That's really strange....I thought we were known for having HUGE portions in restaurants. Unless you go to some 5 star place that always have delicate little portions, everywhere I've ever been serves copious amounts of food.
Hubby and I went to a pretty standard restaurant/bar in Brunswick street last week and both got steak sandwiches. They were *enormous* and came with heaps of chips - there was no space on the plate.
Hubby is French and has always been shocked by the large portions...

Also, my mum is divorced and supports four kids on a simple income; we're more than comfortable. Her income is not very high - I qualify for youth allowance, which I wouldn't get if she earned more.


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## Johnfromoz (Oct 20, 2010)

Let me make a very simple comparison, a meal for two at a suburban Sydney Chinese restaurant sets you back by about $30. Minimum wage in Sydney is $20 an hour. Ratio is not bad at all, in my opinion.

Strangely enough, prices do not differ that much in Chinese restaurants, no matter how expensive or cheap its location is. Even in The Rocks, with views of the Opera House, meals cost around $20. 

In suburban shopping malls meals are discounted towards the end of the business day. Today I bought 11 hot meals for $32. It will take our family 3-4 days to chew through them


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## Lulu2011 (Dec 5, 2011)

*Oz sure is expensive...*

My partner and I are based in Perth and earning $100k+ and I would agree that you can struggle on this amount. We had thought we'd feel as affluent as we did in London, but this is not the case. All food costs are considerably higher in Oz than in the UK. The lack of competition with restaurants and bars means that you will be charged whatever they feel like and, unfortunately, because there aren't enough of either (bars or restaurants) you are held to ransom somewhat. Supermarket shopping costs us approx $200-$250 a week, with occasional top ups. On a positive, Dan Murphy's does do reasonably priced alcohol, and quite a few restaurants are BYO, so you can save there.
The biggest financial drain is still rent, with an average property going for $600 a week. There is such a shortage of rentals in Perth, that again, this market is over inflated due to the fact that it is a landlords market. In a nutshell, this market is governed by greed and you can expect to be gazumped by any of the 30 plus couples/families who will turn up for a home open - this is an Australian letting mechanic whereby they 'open' the doors of the house for 15 minutes at a given time and anyone who is interested turns up then. There is no one on one house viewing as their is in the UK. Invariably you can then end up paying more for a property than you'd want to, or risk losing out. This then sets you off on an overpriced footing, and with expensive gas and electric and astronomical food bills, it suddenly comes as a bit of a wake up call.


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## lifeisgood (Mar 30, 2010)

leptokurtic said:


> In any case, that's in rather sharp contrast with the 3 USD all you can eat bashes in America (I think you'll be hardpressed to find that anywhere in Australia)


are you kidding me...."$3 all you can eat"??????..you must be in a time wrap man...might have been true in 1990s ..but in 2011..its IMPOSSIBLE...

I doubt if you can find "US$ 3 ALL YOU CAN EAT" anywhere in the USA..I can vouch for that...I didnt find anything like that in my 6 year stay in USA...
even the McD guys charge $1 for a small burger!!!


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

lifeisgood said:


> are you kidding me...."$3 all you can eat"??????..you must be in a time wrap man...might have been true in 1990s ..but in 2011..its IMPOSSIBLE...
> 
> I doubt if you can find "US$ 3 ALL YOU CAN EAT" anywhere in the USA..I can vouch for that...I didnt find anything like that in my 6 year stay in USA...
> even the McD guys charge $1 for a small burger!!!


I think he already knows that  we made the correction that it's actually between $8.99 and $25.00 today's prices for "all you can eat". I've always thought "all you can eat" was a rip-off - seriously, who eats that much anyway? Unless you take a doggy bag home, you're wasting a lot of money. Anyway...:focus:


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## anj1976 (Apr 24, 2008)

I dont think there will be an all you can eat arrangement for that amount in india also now..


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## lifeisgood (Mar 30, 2010)

DS3 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just for the record i make around 3k a month and we dont save anything at the moment but we are 03 of us....and we are fine. We are compromising very little ...taking the bus instead of buying a car and not eating/going out as frequently as we did in India. Nothing else has changed. And the moment my wife gets another 3k a month start up basic job even that will change.
> 
> ...


I need to start liking Adelaide now(considering that I have sent the state sponsorship application to SA)...

You comments make me a bit relaxed now 
Maybe its ingrained in us Indians to live within our own means...


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## lifeisgood (Mar 30, 2010)

Johnfromoz said:


> Let me make a very simple comparison, a meal for two at a suburban Sydney Chinese restaurant sets you back by about $30. Minimum wage in Sydney is $20 an hour. Ratio is not bad at all, in my opinion.
> 
> Strangely enough, prices do not differ that much in Chinese restaurants, no matter how expensive or cheap its location is. Even in The Rocks, with views of the Opera House, meals cost around $20.
> 
> In suburban shopping malls meals are discounted towards the end of the business day. Today I bought 11 hot meals for $32. It will take our family 3-4 days to chew through them


I agree..
I feel that comparing the cost of commodities/goods with your earning is probably the best way to go about doing comparison ...


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## JESSJAME5 (Oct 27, 2011)

I hate the cost of living here... and I hate living here. Sorry.

I live on the Gold Coast. And I can't afford it. Granted, I'm certainly not earning 100k a year. I don't even know what I'm earning as I'm a full time student, working away at a theme park whenever they give me shifts. But still, it's a struggle. 

Rent is high. Normally you still have to pay for your utilities too on top of the rent costs, and electricity & water is crazy expensive here. Food is expensive. Petrol is expensive. Phone bills are expensive. Internet is expensive. Seeing a movie costs a fortune, I've just given up seeing movies in the cinema. And eating out anywhere also costs way too much, that I just don't. That, and I'm vegetarian so finding anywhere I actually want to eat at that's worth it is pretty hard for me. 

I did 16+ months in Canada and just got back about 4 months ago. And I worked for $8 an hour there, and I still would prefer to do that rather than earning almost $20 here. I wasn't saving a fortune there no, but I probably could have saved more if I'd gotten more hours. I also worked for $10 an hr full time for 3 months and I saved up enough to live off for those 3 months (rent, bills, transit, food, entertainment etc) + an extra couple grand that I afforded to travel all over the US with.... So I would much rather work there for the much lower wage & lower cost of living than I would live here, earn more, spend more. 

Just my opinion anyways.


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## ianm9887 (Aug 24, 2010)

just like to add my bit, australia has i think become excessivly expensive to live in and its going to get worse with the idiotic carbon tax ready to force increases in much everything . a few years ago on a visit to uk, food in particular appeared to be very expensive, now it seems cheap. visited the u.s. this year and could not believe how inexpensive EVERYTHING was, i own my home here but if i had to rent it it would cost more than i earn, my car rego and insurance has doubled in the last year, my electricity cost has doubled in the last six months despite using a little less,whilst in the us i talked to both canadians and americans about utility costs, and without exception they said that they could not believe how expensive mine were. i could go on but it only gets depressing , i do think that anyone thinking of coming here would be wise to do plenty of homework first, having lived here fifty years and so far worked forty seven years i must say how disappointed i am how things have changed here, and am seriously thinking about leaving as i can see that when i retire, living here will be a financial nightmare.


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2011)

ianm9887 said:


> just like to add my bit, australia has i think become excessivly expensive to live in and its going to get worse with the idiotic carbon tax ready to force increases in much everything . a few years ago on a visit to uk, food in particular appeared to be very expensive, now it seems cheap. visited the u.s. this year and could not believe how inexpensive EVERYTHING was, i own my home here but if i had to rent it it would cost more than i earn, my car rego and insurance has doubled in the last year, my electricity cost has doubled in the last six months despite using a little less,whilst in the us i talked to both canadians and americans about utility costs, and without exception they said that they could not believe how expensive mine were. i could go on but it only gets depressing , i do think that anyone thinking of coming here would be wise to do plenty of homework first, having lived here fifty years and so far worked forty seven years i must say how disappointed i am how things have changed here, and am seriously thinking about leaving as i can see that when i retire, living here will be a financial nightmare.


The RBA has cut back the interest rates again and this should knock back prices a bit. They are ready to cut back even further if global economic woes continue.


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## amaslam (Sep 25, 2008)

Hi Stormgal:

Sydney is expensive. But like living in Manhattan expensive, not living on Mars.

Here are some normal prices:
Lunch: $10-$15 depending on what you eat daily. Fast Food a bit cheaper but not much lower than $7 
Portion size is mainly smaller on drinks, but burgers are about the same size. You can find steaks for cheap at pubs so you just need to search around a bit. Asian (Thai/Chinese) is far pricier than the States, but again falls into the $10-15 range (no $5 specials on that stuff)
Can of soda: 1.50-3.50
Transport: About $5 each way unless it's a short distance or $40-50 for the weekly 
equivalent of a Metrocard.
Rent: $1600+/month
Electricity: $100/month
Internet: $50+/month
Mobile: $30-50+/month

Now a $100k/month person gets back at least 65% after tax so let's say $65000/yr or $5400/month. So let's say even if they spend $3000/month on living expenses (and that's if you do go out and spend a bit) you still can save a decent amount.

Basically the first year is very expensive as you have do all those one time things like get furniture, pots, pans, household items. And then things like a car or registration also add to expenses. 

However after the first year is when you get your real sense of how much you spend. You start to stabilize around 6 months - 12 months and then can tracks the numbers fairly predictably after 12 months. 

One just needs to be very conservative in the first 3 months as those are killer on the savings. But then it eases up.


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## MaddyOZ (Aug 16, 2011)

amaslam said:


> Hi Stormgal:
> 
> Sydney is expensive. But like living in Manhattan expensive, not living on Mars.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. This can be more related to Perth cost of living figures as well, i believe.


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## imrancrest (Apr 12, 2011)

anj1976 said:


> there are people making 160k and are living without saving much and thereare those who make 80k, live comfortably and are able to save about 2-3k per month, it entirely depends on what your lifestyle is, if saving is a priority or eating out is. i come from India and have been taught the value of saving from day one, primarily because we got no benefits from the govt., we paid taxes and in return got nothing, medical, schooling etc, everything is on you there.. we manage a decent living and stil manage saving on one person's income, i am not working as of now. we do not eat out much, my husband carries lunch to office, i wont say it is difficult saving, one just has to prioritize things


You know , situations are getting worse here in India . Govt is causing more pain to the people rather than benefiting us . Hope to be there in 2012 .


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

I don't think I'll move to Sydney, otherwise, I lead a low-maintenance lifestyle, so I don't think I'll have a problem with the expense as long as salary compensates. Thanks guys, for answering


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## amaslam (Sep 25, 2008)

I suggest the 2nd and 3rd cities in each state. i.e. Newcastle, Albury, Tamworth, etc.

These would be second in population size but should have most or all of the facilities of the capital cities. Then take a look at Real Estate and Rental prices to see what is suitable. 

The main challenge in these types of cities is finding a job and then finding a salary you are OK with. 

In terms of capital cities I have heard Adelaide is the least expensive, however it also struggles with economic growth compared to the other capitals. 

I guess my comparison for Adelaide would be "It's Pittsburgh while the other capitals are like Boston".

However if you do find a suitable job there living can be quite nice there.


stormgal said:


> I don't think I'll move to Sydney, otherwise, I lead a low-maintenance lifestyle, so I don't think I'll have a problem with the expense as long as salary compensates. Thanks guys, for answering


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

amaslam said:


> I suggest the 2nd and 3rd cities in each state. i.e. Newcastle, Albury, Tamworth, etc.
> 
> These would be second in population size but should have most or all of the facilities of the capital cities. Then take a look at Real Estate and Rental prices to see what is suitable.
> 
> ...


I heard that Adelaide is extremely hot though. Can you imagine going from busy and cold to bored and hot? :confused2:


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## amaslam (Sep 25, 2008)

It's dry but not signifcantly hotter than the other capitals. The hottest capital is Darwin and that's tropical. Adelaide does have a cool season too. Boredom is a risk nearly everywhere, it's one of the adjustments you make when you come here (yes please do stop and smell the roses) 



stormgal said:


> I heard that Adelaide is extremely hot though. Can you imagine going from busy and cold to bored and hot? :confused2:


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2011)

stormgal said:


> I heard that Adelaide is extremely hot though. Can you imagine going from busy and cold to bored and hot? :confused2:


There's always Antarctica if bored and cold is your thing


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## lifeisgood (Mar 30, 2010)

amaslam said:


> Hi Stormgal:
> 
> Sydney is expensive. But like living in Manhattan expensive, not living on Mars.
> 
> ...



by far the most comprehensive and "sane" voice I have seen on this post so far..


there will always be places where even soda can cost you 4 times as much the regular price ...

in the USA you can get $5 chinese meals and still pack leftover for the next day..and you can go to "P.F.Chang's" and burn your pocket...

get a good quality steak from a supermarket and compare it with Ruby Tuesday's which will be less than half the size and thrice the price...

great post amaslam:clap2: ...


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