# Is it worth it?



## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

I am so depressed about this whole emigrating from UK to SA thing! I have been told by the SA Embassy in London that my husband's Permanent resident permit can take up to 18 months to process and before even phoning to make an appointment with them to approve his application we have to obtain the chest xray, doctors report and police clearance. This is after phaffing about and great expenditure getting apostille stamps on our wedding cert and processing my SA Passport renewal application (which I was initially told we could do this application with my husband's PR premit application then subsequently told that we have to do a separate application as passport office doesn't allow appointments to be made - you have to sit and wait which isn't good with a 6 month old and 18 month old childminded children) We have had his CV posted on websites and sent to goodness knows how many recruitment consultants (Chartered Mechanical Engineer and Prince2 Programme manager so not underqualified or underskilled) and there hasn't been a glimmer of interest from anyone. Friends in SA who were so pushy about us coming back to Cape Town and promised to help have subsequently dropped off the face of the earth and the private school I wanted to send my daughter to wants a R36,000 deposit before we even set foot in the door!!!!!! Really beginning to think that this perhaps was not the wisest decision to make and it is really depressing to think I may never be able to come home to Cape Town. Has anyone reading this done the move within a year and not felt at some point that it was going to be futile.... really love to hear some experiences (with happy endings!) please.


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## martinaloeb (May 12, 2011)

I haven't had exactly the same experience as we are only here for 2-5 years for my boyfriends work so not really had to deal with as much drama as you.

I think that only you know the answer to your question though. It depends on your motivation for leaving the UK and moving here. Will you have a better quality of life? Will you have more friends and family around? Will you be leaving a lot behind?

I think that you must have thought it worth it to consider it in the first place. Once you have jumped through all of the hoops and are settled you will forget all the stress and just enjoy life in one of the most beautiful places in the World! 

The work thing is hard - it depends on your husbands skills and what he works as because some of us are struggling to find work, and other friends of mine walked straight into a job and are being sponsored re visa. 

Good luck with everything, and don't lose heart if you think that you are doing the right thing. I gave up a hell of a lot to leave London, and I gained other things instead whilst I am here. I wish that life was as easy as it was when we had more money as both were working, but I love the new experiences I am lucky enough to gain now

I hope it all works out


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Whenwe, quick question, are you emigrating permanently or just going over for a visit for a few years with an exit airline ticket at the end?


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

Daxk said:


> Whenwe, quick question, are you emigrating permanently or just going over for a visit for a few years with an exit airline ticket at the end?



Well we are hoping to go permanently but it would depend on my husband getting a job. intention was to get the permanent resident permit and my daughters SA Passport (born in UK so only UK passport at moment) here in UK then go over on a one way ticket.:ranger:


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

martinaloeb said:


> I haven't had exactly the same experience as we are only here for 2-5 years for my boyfriends work so not really had to deal with as much drama as you.
> 
> I think that only you know the answer to your question though. It depends on your motivation for leaving the UK and moving here. Will you have a better quality of life? Will you have more friends and family around? Will you be leaving a lot behind?
> 
> ...


Thanks Martina - definitely hoping for a better quality of life in SA as my daughter is very sporty and it would be so much nicer for her to have the outdoor life that she would have in Cape Town. Husband has no quality of life in UK and just works. He is into running and sailing so be better off in Cape Town too. I have a good life in UK as I am a childminder which is lucrative here but probably not so in SA. If I return to SA I would probably need to get back into insurance broking which doesn't pay all that well. Also be hard to adjust to working during school holidays and not be off with my daughter as unlikely to get as much leave in SA as I do here. Lots of pros and cons to weigh up and you are quite right that at the end of the day its my decision to make and a very hard one at that too - so much easier when I came to UK 15 years ago with just myself to worry about - no job and only 1 friend here but still it was less daunting than the prospect of moving with a child. 

Thanks for your reply and really glad that you are happy in SA. Bet you are not missing the UK weather.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

WhenweB said:


> Well we are hoping to go permanently but it would depend on my husband getting a job. intention was to get the permanent resident permit and my daughters SA Passport (born in UK so only UK passport at moment) here in UK then go over on a one way ticket.:ranger:


Go to Oz.


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

Daxk said:


> Go to Oz.


Had considered that Daxk but a) we have no family there at all and b) the thought of moving somewhere and starting again is quite horrific to be honest. Happy to go to Cape Town as family and friends there or stay put as friends here but couldn't face a new place without knowing anyone. Neither of us have any contacts or reason to be in Oz so unlikely to get sponsorship etc. Thanks for your reply though.


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

WhenweB said:


> Had considered that Daxk but a) we have no family there at all and b) the thought of moving somewhere and starting again is quite horrific to be honest. Happy to go to Cape Town as family and friends there or stay put as friends here but couldn't face a new place without knowing anyone. Neither of us have any contacts or reason to be in Oz so unlikely to get sponsorship etc. Thanks for your reply though.


You know, I think your doubts are born from all the hassles you are having at the moment. The permit/passport road is a long difficult road to travel and especially when you are at the beginning of it it feels like a huge mountain to climb. BUT, try to look beyond this. Once your permits and passports are sorted out then how will you feel? Will you value being back in the country of your birth? Will you love having your family and friends around? Will you appreciate the weather and the ability to be outside for most of the year? Will the pros of coming home outweigh issues such as crime, high school fees and idiotic politics? In your posts it sounds like you want to come home and if so then there is your answer. It is difficult applying for jobs from abroad and I think you will find it much easier once you are here. Yes it is a bit of a gamble but most of the people that I know (skilled professionals) have not had any problems finding work. AND if it does not work out then so be it, at least you tried and you will never be left wondering how life would have been had you returned home. We love love love it here and have not regretted the move ever despite all the [email protected] you have to put up with when it comes to Home Affairs etc.


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

Daxk said:


> Go to Oz.


and risk bumping into you know who. That would be a disaster.


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

Saartjie said:


> You know, I think your doubts are born from all the hassles you are having at the moment. The permit/passport road is a long difficult road to travel and especially when you are at the beginning of it it feels like a huge mountain to climb. BUT, try to look beyond this. Once your permits and passports are sorted out then how will you feel? Will you value being back in the country of your birth? Will you love having your family and friends around? Will you appreciate the weather and the ability to be outside for most of the year? Will the pros of coming home outweigh issues such as crime, high school fees and idiotic politics? In your posts it sounds like you want to come home and if so then there is your answer. It is difficult applying for jobs from abroad and I think you will find it much easier once you are here. Yes it is a bit of a gamble but most of the people that I know (skilled professionals) have not had any problems finding work. AND if it does not work out then so be it, at least you tried and you will never be left wondering how life would have been had you returned home. We love love love it here and have not regretted the move ever despite all the [email protected] you have to put up with when it comes to Home Affairs etc.


Thanks Saartjie - that is encouraging and quite right. Feeling a bit more positive today so ready to get cracking again.


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

WhenweB said:


> Thanks Saartjie - that is encouraging and quite right. Feeling a bit more positive today so ready to get cracking again.


That's the spirit! Let me know if you need any help in your application process (fights with Home Affairs). I am happy to help :boxing:


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Saartjie said:


> and risk bumping into you know who. That would be a disaster.


I'm Lost??:confused2: I dont live in OZ?


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

Saartjie said:


> That's the spirit! Let me know if you need any help in your application process (fights with Home Affairs). I am happy to help :boxing:


Thanks. Will do.


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

Daxk said:


> I'm Lost??:confused2: I dont live in OZ?


I know that. You're the Irish Rover. I was talking about someone else on this forum.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Saartjie said:


> I know that. You're the Irish Rover. I was talking about someone else on this forum.


The Happy Halo


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

Johanna said:


> The Happy Halo


Correct! :clap2:


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Happy as - I do however feel that some of you need to read some Abraham Maslow as you confuse reality with fantasy......


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

I always wait for the punchline (like on a Monty Python skit) when I hear the words "I'm immigrating to South Africa"


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## Stevan (Jun 30, 2009)

well im realy loving my fantasy life thankyou very much.
the only thing that is missing is the bit where eva mendes and cameron diaz move in next door and ask if they can use my swimming pool.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Stevan said:


> well im realy loving my fantasy life thankyou very much.
> the only thing that is missing is the bit where eva mendes and cameron diaz move in next door and ask if they can use my swimming pool.


The Fantasy................. Enjoy. Perhaps Carmen Electra will visit too.


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## susieusa (Mar 18, 2012)

Suggest your husband get a job first and be sponsored by a SA employer as that will ease the process. Also, depending on his career area he should check out the scare skills visas which will offer a quicker permanent residency route than normal means. However, since you are S African, doesn't he get to go in via you? 

I recently left SA though I love it there because after 4 years of waiting for my work permit stamp from HA, I gave up and about R12-15,000 shorter. I hope things go better for you. I truly love SA.


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## satori (Mar 9, 2012)

Susie - it's appalling that you went through so much thanks to HA! Hope you are settling into the US - do you plan to stay there longerterm?

Just thought I'd add a little to this thread. My husband was in Jo'burg last week and he said he could not believe his eyes how it has all changed! ( We left Jo'burg 16 years ago for the UK.) He feels many things are positive - he enjoyed the feel of the place, spoke to many people of all races. Said he felt that people are friendly and open no matter their race and there was lot's of healthy interaction. 

Mind you, bear in mind he was in Sandton! Not to bump the positivity but he might have had a different view if somewhere else. Also this is based on a brief stay. Ever buffering the positivity I am ...:tongue1:

In any event he told me that business in the IT field seems to be very much on the up. Attended various meetings / conferences and was impressed by the innovative approaches taken by businesses there and said there are many exciting truly creative developments taking place. Says there are more jobs available than when we lived there and salaries are pretty much on par with the UK. 

Then went to CT. He felt there were positive changes but it was not as evident as in Jo'burg. Says the job market in CT appears to be better than he had personally hoped for. It's early days and he is aware he may still be in the honeymoon vibe. But I felt better for hearing his insights about business, hopefully it bodes well for the future and for people who want to return. 

Can't believe I will be there next week - omg - the packing is looming larger by the day!

I'll keep you all posted on my impressions once I have spent a little time there.


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

satori said:


> Susie - it's appalling that you went through so much thanks to HA! Hope you are settling into the US - do you plan to stay there longerterm?
> 
> Just thought I'd add a little to this thread. My husband was in Jo'burg last week and he said he could not believe his eyes how it has all changed! ( We left Jo'burg 16 years ago for the UK.) He feels many things are positive - he enjoyed the feel of the place, spoke to many people of all races. Said he felt that people are friendly and open no matter their race and there was lot's of healthy interaction.
> 
> ...


Oh I am pleased for you - I do hope it all goes according to plan and fabulous that your husband has found so many positive things to say about improvements in Jhb. When I lived in Jhb for a year it was in Braamfontein and believe me that probably is the opposite end of the spectrum of Sandton and certainly not somewhere I would want to revisit - ever! Cape Town on the other hand is certainly calling. Been to the SA Embassy in London today and was amazed by how helpful and friendly the personnel were. The guy doing my fingerprints was very friendly saying "yes of course we would want you back in SA and your husband" - lovely attitude. Now waiting for my passport and ID book then be applying for my husbands Perm Res permit. Keep you posted.

Looking forward to hearing how you get on. Good luck and happy packing!:clap2:


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## satori (Mar 9, 2012)

WhenweB so pleased you are making great progress sorting everything out. Really good to know you had a positive experience at the embassy - maybe the tide is truly turning now. :clap2:

Holding out for you that it's not a long wait to get your passport, let us know how that goes.

What I find really great is how when I go through customs in CT for the past several years the officials there are so friendly such a change from the po-faced dour faces in many other countries I have visited. I always feel from the getgo I am back home! 

We lived in Halfway House years ago - like you I have no desire to go back to Jo'burg really but I think that's based on the fact that all my family are in CT than anything else. Okay - maybe the Cape scenery too if I am deeply honest!


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## baobab (Mar 22, 2012)

'WhenWeBe' Please let us know how you get on. I'm South African born with British parents and a British husband (and our 2 children, aged 5 and 4). We too are looking into emigrating to SA, with a view to settling near Hermanus. The whole visa application process and constant mind games is proving exceptionally challenging but it's a great comfort to see others in the same boat. I will update any progress we make (not promising any useful information!) but just wanted to say 'good luck' and keep us posted!


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

baobab said:


> 'WhenWeBe' Please let us know how you get on. I'm South African born with British parents and a British husband (and our 2 children, aged 5 and 4). We too are looking into emigrating to SA, with a view to settling near Hermanus. The whole visa application process and constant mind games is proving exceptionally challenging but it's a great comfort to see others in the same boat. I will update any progress we make (not promising any useful information!) but just wanted to say 'good luck' and keep us posted!


Ah thank you - yes I will keep you posted. At the moment I have submitted my SA passport and ID renewal documents in my married name (you have to get an apostille stamp on your UK marriage certificate if you got married in UK and haven't registered your marriage in SA). I then have to phone to make an appointment for my husband and I to go into the consulate in London to apply for his permanent resident permit (which is better than the spousal visa as you need a work permit with a spousal visa whereas the permanent resident permit allows your hubby to live and work in SA for as long as he is married to you). Before we can make the appointment we have to obtain a chest xray, doctors report and CRB (police clearance) for my husband (not SA passport holders though so just on your husband). Must also apply for a passport for my 8 year old daughter and apparently she doesn't have to go into the embassy with me so that will be easier as didn't want to ask to take her out of school. SO LONG WAY to go still!!!! Hermanus is beautiful you will love it there. I think the hardest part of this whole moving thing is to actually make the decision to go as still "umming and aahing" over it. Will keep you posted. Good luck to you too.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

I'm sorry, there are times when I have to shake my head.

my timeline
54 years in SA
March 4 men with guns in my house
April , ID parade at Police Station
May, the 4 criminals are back on my Driveway on a Sunday morning, pointing at my 5 yer old daughter and making suggestive movements, message about my testimony is clear.
September 8, arrive in Ireland for LSD trip.
October, 4 Interviews, 3 job offers and one partnership offer.
leave early to start ball rolling in SA.
November 7th, arrive in Ireland
November 9th Start work
Jan 2005, Citizenship and Passport arrives.
and Ireland did not need another post middle-aged old fart who spoke with a funny accent and needed Sunlight.


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

Daxk said:


> I'm sorry, there are times when I have to shake my head.
> 
> my timeline
> 54 years in SA
> ...


Oh shame that is an awful thing for your family to have gone through. Glad the move to Ireland was so easy though - don't think you would have been in the mood for any nonsense after that episode. See this is the type of incident which freaks me out about going to SA because here in UK I had the police coming around to take fingerprints when my car was broken into and the CD player taken - I was then offered counselling and a follow up call to check I was okay a couple of weeks later. Similarly though I had a friend in CT who had robbers breaking in to her home but the police and armed response were there within minutes with guns etc and she never saw them again thank goodness. Its all part of what is making this decision so hard because I would never ever forgive myself if I put my daughter into that sort of situation. Think I would be inclined to buy my own security guard to stand at the gate or I wouldn't sleep at night.... I hope your daughter is okay and over the trauma.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Thank you, we still have issues regarding the nightmares as she was repeatedly told to keep quiet and not cry or her Mommy and Daddy would be killed.


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

Daxk said:


> Thank you, we still have issues regarding the nightmares as she was repeatedly told to keep quiet and not cry or her Mommy and Daddy would be killed.


Poor kid - horrific! Hope she is happy in Ireland. I couldn't imagine how I would cope with that - you did the right thing.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

WhenweB said:


> Poor kid - horrific! Hope she is happy in Ireland. I couldn't imagine how I would cope with that - you did the right thing.


Oh she is, last trip, she started smiling and laughing as we landed at Shannon Airport.
danced in the rain.
anyway, whatever, I have found people need to experience things themselves to make their own judgements.


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## satori (Mar 9, 2012)

That is horrendous and traumatic Daxk - I'm sorry you all went through that. 

I too find it difficult to decide...Iogically I know it only takes one terrible thing like that to change one's perspective, if not life, forever. 

It's that risk that freaks one out - because one just does not know if it will happen to one. I think this is why I plan to keep my home here and possibly rent a place there if we need to down the line. 

For me I have to weigh this risk against other factors - I have an elderly single mum there and feel I can't just uproot her from her life/home etc to bring her here, nor can I leave her for long periods of time. 

I'll try to get more of a feel about how prevalent the crimes are once I am there...not that it will help me much if I end up experiencing something like you have been through first hand.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

satori said:


> That is horrendous and traumatic Daxk - I'm sorry you all went through that.
> 
> I too find it difficult to decide...Iogically I know it only takes one terrible thing like that to change one's perspective, if not life, forever.
> 
> ...


Satori, rationally, it only happened once in 54 years.
there is also a very strong possibility it may never happen again, or it might not have happened at all.
I DO have a number of friends who have been affected, I have also had friends murdered and shot.
But I also have a very large circle of friends.
the majority of people you find who say they will never go back are the ones who have had it happen , at least closely to them.
There are no guarantees either way.

If I was young and with small children, I would go for the experience, while you can, it IS a beautiful Country,it IS slightly cheaper and on Sterling or Euro's you CAN live a better lifestyle iro of houses and Holidays than the UK.

But thats it, young, time to heal if things go pear shaped, Get out of Jail free Passport and young kids, very young kids.
As a retiree, perhaps also, but only if you have enough means to get out if you have to.
dont sell the UK house to finance the dream, 
I dont believe SA has a future for another 40 years, I hope I'm wrong, but all the baby steps are there.


I did NOT leave because of the incident.
I left because my 5 year old daughter was going to grow up and start dating and going to parties one day, and THAT risk was unacceptable.

The concern about car accidents is worldwide, Rape and murder less so out of Africa.

as to your Mother, my Mil spends Summers here and Summers there, 
my mother is 80, she is active in her church and charities, I wanted to bring her out.
She has refused, she feels her time is too short to start a new life and I have two brothers and a sister who cannot get out, and the nephews and nieces are all still studying.
I bring her across for Holidays and thank g*d for video skype.

its to each his or her own.
Moving my family to Ireland was the best thing I could have done.
the weather is kak, the lifestle is amazing, especially the variety and freedom.


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

satori said:


> For me I have to weigh this risk against other factors - I have an elderly single mum there and feel I can't just uproot her from her life/home etc to bring her here, nor can I leave her for long periods of time.
> 
> .


Hi Satori - gosh I know how you feel. My mother is 75 and lives an hour out of Cape Town in a small town on her own. She is also a huge reason for going to SA because I worry if something happens to her my brother who lives an hour away couldn't really look after her (he is single so no daughter in law or kids that can help my mum) and I wouldn't be able to down tools and go to SA to help out because I have an 8 year old in school and I am a self employed childminder so I wouldn't get paid time off. She is okay at the moment as going stong and very bush with choir, dancing, gardening etc. She also has a male gay friend who is in his 60s who keeps an eye on her and keeps her company which is comforting as he would let me know if he couldn't reach her etc. Such a hard decision. The incident Daxk mentioned really freaks me out cos I wouldn't be able to live with myself if anythng happened to my daughter (and I also worry about her teens when she is dating etc) Urgh its always one step forward and one step back isn't it!!!!:confused2:


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## stormgal (Sep 30, 2009)

Daxk - oh I am so sorry that happened to you and your daughter! I am so glad things turned out well for you and your family.

I think you made a good decision regarding your daughter with regards to the dating, because SA actually has one of the highest rates of HIV and AIDS.


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## Stevan (Jun 30, 2009)

Daxk said:


> Satori, rationally, it only happened once in 54 years.
> there is also a very strong possibility it may never happen again, or it might not have happened at all.
> I DO have a number of friends who have been affected, I have also had friends murdered and shot.
> But I also have a very large circle of friends.
> ...


I was going to like your post but due to subject didnt seem right.
i to am very sorry for your incedent and pleased that your daughter has made a full recovery.

a very nice ballanced post daxk which i think will be very helpful for those that are unsure if taking the leap is the right thing.

if i could just add my experience to your comment about couples with young children.

at the time of our move we had a teenage son and a daughter about to become a teenager. when me and "she who should be obeyed" had made our mind up we sat them down for a family meeting. we told them we had decided that we wanted to move but if they did not want to we would not go. they both said yes.

My daughter settled in no problem no issues whatso ever. my son became very uneasy as the time to move grew closer. we arrived in december so they did not start school for six weeks. he became more and more uptight and anxious as the days went on. we realy thought we may need to take him to the doctor for some sort of medication. the weekend before his first day at school was a nightmare. started school on the monday, changed overnight he loved it. first evening we had a house full of his new friends. he has never looked back and says he will never go back. 
my advice for what its worth. if you are moving with teens, plan so they get here and get straight into school, dont give them time to dwell.

oh and rugby prop forwards are a lot more sensetive than they seem on the field, bless his heart.


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

Stevan said:


> I was going to like your post but due to subject didnt seem right.
> i to am very sorry for your incedent and pleased that your daughter has made a full recovery.
> 
> a very nice ballanced post daxk which i think will be very helpful for those that are unsure if taking the leap is the right thing.
> ...


Aaahh that is nice to know. I love the comment about him being a rugby prop. My brother is a gentle giant too - people always think he would be up for a fight but he is such a softie and very sensitive especially about his animals. Glad they settled so easily. My daughter is only 8 and does make friends easily but she has already said she doesn't want to leave her school and friends here. Adds to the stress a bit as obviously one doesn't want to disrupt them and make them unhappy but when we were last on holiday she got on so well with all the SA children she met and I think she too would settle quite soon. The Aids and HIV I hadn't actually thought about yet (but I will now I am sure) Here in UK the concern is that there are too many incentives to fall pregnant as a teen which cause concern. We have a very close realationship though so I am hoping to guide her correctly and openly in that regard and teach her the importance of self respect etc. Anyway upwards and onwards as they say... perhaps today I shall make a final decision!!!!:confused2:


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## Stevan (Jun 30, 2009)

WhenweB said:


> Aaahh that is nice to know. I love the comment about him being a rugby prop. My brother is a gentle giant too - people always think he would be up for a fight but he is such a softie and very sensitive especially about his animals. Glad they settled so easily. My daughter is only 8 and does make friends easily but she has already said she doesn't want to leave her school and friends here. Adds to the stress a bit as obviously one doesn't want to disrupt them and make them unhappy but when we were last on holiday she got on so well with all the SA children she met and I think she too would settle quite soon. The Aids and HIV I hadn't actually thought about yet (but I will now I am sure) Here in UK the concern is that there are too many incentives to fall pregnant as a teen which cause concern. We have a very close realationship though so I am hoping to guide her correctly and openly in that regard and teach her the importance of self respect etc. Anyway upwards and onwards as they say... perhaps today I shall make a final decision!!!!:confused2:


look im going to be honest. i had sleepless nights fits of doubt and sheer panic, right up to the day we arrived. the kids settled a lot quicker than we did, i think the children will be fine. the hardest thing i found was getting out of "holiday mode" and into "we live here mode". our biggest fear before we left was how the kids would react, after the intial 6 weeks with the lad it turned out to be the least of our worries. 

once your daughter is in school she will be fine, i have found south african kids very open and friendly. and of course there is the novelty factor because she is from a diffrent country, other kids will be drawn to her.

at the end of the day the decision is yours and yours alone. in my opinion (ok biased opinion if you like because i love it here) if you dont go you will never know. one of the factors that swayed us was if we didnt try it we would always be thinking what would it have been like if we had gone. every time we left after a holiday it got harder, every time we got back to uk it was more depressing. we are here and we are happy. come with your eyes open (you are already doing your research). if you decide not to come i hope you will be very happy where you are, and maybe it isnt for you now. but hey things change in a couple of years you may change your mind again. if you come grab life with both hands and make the most of it. 

P.S whiskey helps the sleepless nights


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

Stevan said:


> look im going to be honest. i had sleepless nights fits of doubt and sheer panic, right up to the day we arrived. the kids settled a lot quicker than we did, i think the children will be fine. the hardest thing i found was getting out of "holiday mode" and into "we live here mode". our biggest fear before we left was how the kids would react, after the intial 6 weeks with the lad it turned out to be the least of our worries.
> 
> once your daughter is in school she will be fine, i have found south african kids very open and friendly. and of course there is the novelty factor because she is from a diffrent country, other kids will be drawn to her.
> 
> ...


Thanks Stevan - yeah we have got to the stage where we hate coming back from holiday and this time my husband and I had both agreed we would be better off in SA. However 3 months down the line - being so far away again - its easy to slip right back into the "comfort zone" fearing the worst if you move trying to find positive reasons to stay in UK. Today its easy as its sunny and warm but the other 350 days of the year different story!!! Will keep you posted. Thanks for your advice.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

WhenweB said:


> Thanks Stevan - yeah we have got to the stage where we hate coming back from holiday and this time my husband and I had both agreed we would be better off in SA. However 3 months down the line - being so far away again - its easy to slip right back into the "comfort zone" fearing the worst if you move trying to find positive reasons to stay in UK. Today its easy as its sunny and warm but the other 350 days of the year different story!!! Will keep you posted. Thanks for your advice.


WhenweB


I think you should stay in the UK. You seem very unsure and if you move over to SA with all your doubts , you may never be happy.


I personally have never had any problems Daxk mentioned and do not know anyone who has had similar experiences, but there is a lot of crime in SA.


Make sure you know what you want in life before you make such a huge decision, that you may or may not regret at some stage in your life.


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

Johanna said:


> WhenweB
> 
> 
> I think you should stay in the UK. You seem very unsure and if you move over to SA with all your doubts , you may never be happy.
> ...


Thanks Johanna. You are right. I am the type of person though who takes half an hour to decide what to chose from a menu so you can imagine what this decision is like for me!!!!


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## arnaud (Jul 29, 2009)

WhenweB said:


> Thanks Johanna. You are right. I am the type of person though who takes half an hour to decide what to chose from a menu so you can imagine what this decision is like for me!!!!


Why not visit the country for holidays, and take a wise decision ?
Cape Town and the country side are not that bad. You will read a lot of horror stories on the internet about South Africa. Some of them are true, some are just from right-wing moaners incapable of starting a new life on their "new" country.

If you read Crime Stats SA carefully, you will point out that most than 95% of the cases are in the townships.

Moving to a country is a huge decision, so take it seriously and don't listen to those not living in South Africa. Don't move if you are scare or if you won't be able to live in a decent way.

Last but not least, more than 20,000 Brits settle in SA each year, not counting other Europeans.


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## satori (Mar 9, 2012)

....or , there might be a way you could do it the way I am trying - keeping the house here - letting it out and renting in CT initially.

I know that has it's own set of challenges/problems, but it means one is at least going to have time to feel it out before making a firm commitment. Part of my fear is of myself - I will probably go into total honeymoon mode. I'm hoping my house here will anchor me in some mysterious way.

All that said I suppose it works for me also because I have children here and need to get back regularly anyway... so it may be more difficult for you with no emotional ties here.

My hubby is there as you know and no doubt about it he is in lurve with it all. I am saying 'what about the crime...the crime, the crrrrimmme' ... and he is well - the weather is wonderful...the people are a joy, everyone just lives their lives .... 

....as a wee add-on he mentions he has to drive right though grassy park daily to get to work.  I'm not such a happy bunny about this ( Wrongly or rightly I am thinking gang warfare...can you tell I am paranoid!)but he says lot's of people do it no problem & the locals are friendly and nice. 

Shheesh - and to think I was depending on his insight...:tongue1:


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## chickenruby (Mar 5, 2012)

We moved from the UK to South Africa with 4 months notice for my hubbies work on an inter company transfer, it has been very difficult, I thought the whole visa process to be the most difficult thing Ive ever experienced but then Ive never applied to other countries for a visa so maybe its the same for everywhere.

Life here has been very hard, I cant get work and even trying to continue my studies is proving very difficult. Many South Africans tell us how hard it is do things round here, let alone being a foreigner.

But we love the country, the people, the climate and are determined to make things work.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

arnaud said:


> Why not visit the country for holidays, and take a wise decision ?
> Cape Town and the country side are not that bad. You will read a lot of horror stories on the internet about South Africa. Some of them are true, some are just from right-wing moaners incapable of starting a new life on their "new" country.
> 
> If you read Crime Stats SA carefully, you will point out that most than 95% of the cases are in the townships.
> ...


Arnaud,
having a Holiday in a Country is totally different t dealing with it on a daily basis.

95% of SOME crimes happen where 65% of the Country live, in the sub-economic Townships and Shanty towns.
but iro of armed Home invasions and hi-jackings very few Shacks have a couple of TV's and Laptops and home Stereo systems with two BMW's parked in the Garage

Your comment about relevant criticism only being right wingers unable to settle in
their new Country is insulting and inflammatory.
as to those not living in SA giving advice, I can assure you that the very peple you need to talk to are those who have left to find out why they left to get a balanced view....
and lastly,, if 20,000 Brits are arriving every month you need to ask why and who are they replacing and where have those 20,000 gone.....


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## kingofthecastle (Mar 26, 2012)

Daxk said:


> Arnaud,
> having a Holiday in a Country is totally different t dealing with it on a daily basis.
> 
> 95% of SOME crimes happen where 65% of the Country live, in the sub-economic Townships and Shanty towns.
> but iro of armed Home invasions and hi-jackings very few Shacks have a couple of TV's and Laptops and home Stereo systems with two BMW's parked in the Garage


You forgot to mention high walls, security gates, alarm systems, rottweilers and armed response. I think the criminals are more likely to go for an easier target most of the time or at least wait until the people are not at home. 



> Your comment about relevant criticism only being right wingers unable to settle in
> their new Country is insulting and inflammatory.
> as to those not living in SA giving advice, I can assure you that the very peple you need to talk to are those who have left to find out why they left to get a balanced view....



Having overheard the absolute nonsense some South Africans who live overseas speak about the country I laughed out loud at the idea that their view is the most balanced one. You put your head in the sand to not acknowledge the very obvious political leanings and prejudices certain South Africans of a certain age do carry around with them. Please let's not pretend racism doesn't exist in high proportions amongst many of the ex inhabitants of this country. People deserve to know what the likelyhood of a ex South African being overtly harsh when describing the new South Africa is often highly increased if they have a dog in the fight. South Africans on the political liberal side are far more likely to focus on the good while those on the right tend to exaggerate the bad. I don't think this is an insulting observation merely an obvious one. So I would suggest you take what many South Africans living abroad have to say about the country with a pinch of salt without dismissing them entirely. There might be elements of truth, but if it sounds too horrific to be true it probably is not true or alarmingly overstated. 



> and lastly,, if 20,000 Brits are arriving every month you need to ask why and who are they replacing and where have those 20,000 gone.....


Why would they have to be replacing anyone ? According to wikipedia (sourcing the department of home affairs) under "South African demographics" the white population is the fastest growing population in South Africa at 4% per year. 1 in 4 retired people in South Africa is a foreigner for example.


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

chickenruby said:


> We moved from the UK to South Africa with 4 months notice for my hubbies work on an inter company transfer, it has been very difficult, I thought the whole visa process to be the most difficult thing Ive ever experienced but then Ive never applied to other countries for a visa so maybe its the same for everywhere.
> 
> Life here has been very hard, I cant get work and even trying to continue my studies is proving very difficult. Many South Africans tell us how hard it is do things round here, let alone being a foreigner.
> 
> But we love the country, the people, the climate and are determined to make things work.


Good luck - which part of SA are you in. I have friends in Cape Town who would be glad to meet up with you and show you around as some people do find it hard to make new friends when they get there. I hope you find a job soon. Please keep us posted. Have you got children? If so how are they finding it?


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## WhenweB (Jan 23, 2012)

arnaud said:


> Why not visit the country for holidays, and take a wise decision ?
> Cape Town and the country side are not that bad. You will read a lot of horror stories on the internet about South Africa. Some of them are true, some are just from right-wing moaners incapable of starting a new life on their "new" country.
> 
> If you read Crime Stats SA carefully, you will point out that most than 95% of the cases are in the townships.
> ...


Thanks Arnaud - yes I have been there on holidays since I moved from SA to UK. I had lived in SA for 15 years before moving to UK but now want to go "home". I do like to listen to the people who have left SA even if it is negative cos its interesting to read why they left the country. Daxk experience in SA was awful and he found living in Ireland works well for him. Conversely though there are a lot of Irish people where I live in UK who said they had a terrible time in Ireland as cost of living high and jobs hard. Six of one and half a dozen of another as they say. All relevant opinions though. I am at the moment taking in all the various comments and experiences people have had wherever they now are, am listening to their advice and their comments and am hoping that I can then use all the info to make an open minded decision. There are so many pros and cons of each option though that it is hard to reach the final decision. Waiting for documents form Embassy at moment so have a few months still to ponder all the issues. Thank you for your comment though - much appreciated.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

kingofthecastle said:


> Why would they have to be replacing anyone ? According to wikipedia (sourcing the department of home affairs) under "South African demographics" the white population is the fastest growing population in South Africa at 4% per year. 1 in 4 retired people in South Africa is a foreigner for example.


what does the census say?
how many white bums on seats compared to how many before over the last 4 census periods?
Interested in your 4% growth statement, statsza 2011 does not give anything like that when compared to 2010, can you give a link please?


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## Stevan (Jun 30, 2009)

WhenweB said:


> Thanks Johanna. You are right. I am the type of person though who takes half an hour to decide what to chose from a menu so you can imagine what this decision is like for me!!!!


i bet your husband just loves taking you shopping for shoes


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## kingofthecastle (Mar 26, 2012)

Daxk said:


> what does the census say?
> how many white bums on seats compared to how many before over the last 4 census periods?
> Interested in your 4% growth statement, statsza 2011 does not give anything like that when compared to 2010, can you give a link please?


The last census was done in 2001. I'm not aware if the latest census results are available yet but that will of course be interesting. I will find the link to the population growth. I believe it was carried out (the study)the period 2009.


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