# I have matriculated my car tax free ... here's how



## Etchy Boy

Hey guys, I decided this Jan to apply for residency and matriculate my car ... it has been a mission and I only had until 5th March and I managed to do it in time without paying the ISV/IVA ... which would have been in total be around €14k for my car that only cost me £2.5k in the UK (I know, crazy right?).

Following is my story and costs to get this done. Everybody's story will be slightly different as their situations are different and the rules of Portugal are different depending on who you speak to or what day it is.

Something I will mention is that I did all this in Portuguese ... if I didn't pick up the language and couldn’t communicate in Portuguese, I wouldn’t have accomplished this (not without a translator) ... this is crucial.

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2nd JAN

I live in Tavira and I went to apply for residency as I'd been in Portugal for just over 3 months. This is also a prerequisite to matriculate your car. I went with the required documentation: passport, self-employed work contract, bank statement, fiscal number, residency form with date of arrival.

Initially I went to the SEF building and the man told me that for the 1st time I should go to Camara. I did this, and the woman told me I need an Atestado from Junta de Freguesia which will prove I live where I say I live. So I get the Atestado form from the Junta which has to be filled in from 2 Portuguese voters that will vouch for me and my address.

8th JAN

I have the Atestado form filled in and go to the Junta. The woman tells me to return the next day.

9th JAN

I pick up the Atestado document and pay €3. I go to the Camara and apply for residency. The woman tells me my work contract isn't good enough as it's in English. Instead I give her a bank statement showing her the funds I've transferred over from the UK, and this is good enough for her to accept. She tells me to come back in a week.

16th JAN

I go back and pick up my residency certificate. I've heard stories that Tavira tend to give only 1 yr residency .... I received the 5 yrs straight away, the doc costing €15

This same day I'm getting the ball rolling for the car matriculation. I phone up Vauxhall in the UK and order a Certificate of Conformity. There are numerous websites that do this as well but the cost was the same for me, and Vauxhall would send me both an English and Portuguese certificate for £96. This arrived a few days later, awesome service.

21st JAN

I go to my local mechanic and get the headlamps swapped for 2 new ones with the beam shining the correct way. I looked for a number of scrap yards but was unsuccessful in finding something for my car, so decided to just buy new. I didn't get Vauxhall brand lights as they cost twice as much at €750, ridiculous money. I also go the mechanic to rewire my fog light in the back so the left one would shine instead of the right ... you must have a fog light anywhere from centre to the left edge of the car. On my Vectra, the fog light bulb already existed on the LHS but it's used as a spare bulb, it's not wired by design. Total cost for these tasks was €341.98

24th JAN

I read in a number of places that I'd need the original car owner's manual which I didn't receive with my car. So I ordered one off eBay for £19.45

This day I also drove to the British embassy in Portimao to transfer my residency to Portugal ... this is a document that customs need as it states the date you arrived into Portugal. I made the appointment through the embassy website a week earlier. The trip took a while but the meeting took 10 mins. The cost of this paper: €159

As there is a customs (Alfandega) in Portimao, I decided to pop in and get a list of what I need for car matriculation to ensure I know exactly what I need to do.

25th JAN

I went to the financas office to order 2 documents that were on the Portimao Alfandaga list: One is a declaration that I don't owe any IRS for the past 3 tax years (since it was before March the previous year was 2011 as data for 2012 wasn't out). The 2nd document is a declaration that I don't owe any money to the state. Total cost, €20.32 (the 2nd doc more expensive at €15).

On this day I went to the Social Security office as well to receive a form that was on the list which proves I don't owe any social security in Portugal. There was no cost to this, but the guy was confused as I've never worked in Portugal before and don't have a social security number. He said he'd fax something to head office and I'll receive the letter in the post in a week. Well, a week later the letter arrived with my name spelt wrong and my fiscal number with a digit missing (silly error, nobody has an 8-digit fiscal number) ... so I went back and had him phone head office who then sent another letter out, arriving in another week. This one was correct.

1st FEB

I took my car to Loule to be IPO tested. IPO is the Portuguese MOT and for matriculation you need to do a category B rather than category A. The category A costs around €45 and €7 for a retest, whereas cat B is €70 each time.

Prior to this I went to the IMTT office in Faro to pick up a Modelo 9 form, which must be filled in for the IPO guys to stamp. IMTT is the Portuguese DVLA. The Modelo 9 just needs to be filled in with details of the car from the Certificate of Conformity.

This was an awesome experience for me and so efficient. Not like MOTs in the UK ... here it's like a production line with each station performing a particular set of tests on the car, so you just drive through the production line and reach the end to receive a pass or fail certificate. A cat B will test the elements on the Certificate of Conformity such as distance between the axles, weights, etc. The things to make sure of are that you have converted the headlamps and fog lights, and that your speedometer does KPH.

My car failed on 1 thing ... I had 4 different brands of tyres on the car. In the UK this doesn't matter as long as they have the same tread pattern ... here the tyres on the same axis must be the same brand and ratings.

This hurt as my tyres are in great condition and relatively new. I paid €70.34 at the test centre.

4th FEB

I replaced my tyres for €350

7th FEB

I went to customs (Alfandega) in Faro which is the one I need to initiate the matriculation process in. The woman there gave me her version of the list of items I need to accomplish. Let's just say this list doesn't match the one from Portimao, which I find bizarre. On her list I didn't need the financas document that I don’t owe state taxes and I didn't need the social security document either.

I picked up the 2 car import forms from here for €1.80, the Modelo 22.1100 and Modelo 22.1101 (one is to import a car and the other to do it tax free). These forms aren't easy to fill in, but using Google Translate you can do it .... most of the data is from the Certificate of Conformity about the car.

8th FEB

I went back to Controlauto in Loule to retest my car, another €70.34. This took 20 seconds for the guy to read my 4 tyre brands and job done. If you come back within 30 days you don't have to do a full test again, only the parts that failed, in my case the tyres.

After I passed, the guy gave me a green certificate which has a sticker to put on the car. In the UK you show road tax on the windscreen, here you don't (used to, not anymore) ... but you must show insurance and IPO instead. To me this makes much more sense as an MOT and insurance are for road safety. I also received a yellow sheet which I need for later one.

One thing that was an issue here was that the engineer couldn't read my engine number (they're usually hidden) and he put that on the Modelo 9 form. This means you have to go to the dealer and get them to provide a document proving that this number plate has the engine with this number. I told the engineer that you can read it, it's on the side. So we went and I showed him, but it was on a sticker. He put the number down and made a note that it was on a sticker. He told me that IMTT might accept it or they might ask me to go to the dealer for this doc ... but don't say anything if they don't.

11th FEB

One of the things you have to prove is that you lived in the UK for a full 12 months prior to the arrival date stated on the British Embassy residency transfer document. I had 14 months of Virgin Medial bills (and this is what Peter on these forums used) ... but as a backup I also wrote to my lettings agent in London to send me an official letter stating the dates I was renting in London through them prior to moving here. Cost of this: £25.96

13th FEB

I went back to IMTT in Faro with my Modelo 9 and pass certificate. The next step is to receive a Homologacao number, I guess this is like the V5C registration number. This was a long wait and I realized how crazy IMTT is. I went at 9am and was given a ticket number of 423 or something. There were 2 queues, 200 and 400, depending on what you're there for. People queue up from very early here as it can take all day sometimes to be seen.

I was seen after 2 hours and within 2 minutes the woman told me I have a problem .... shock. She said "your certificate of conformity says your car is Vauxhall but the system says it's Opel" ... you see Vauxhall are only Vauxhall in the UK, Opel everywhere else. Because the words didn't match, she had to send a request to Lisbon head office to change the computer and she took my mobile number and said she'd call me the next day.

..... CONTINUED


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## Etchy Boy

.... CONTINUED


15th FEB

I didn't receive a phone call so I drove back myself. This time I only waited 40 mins but the woman didn't remember who I was ... she said "I can remember your face but not sure where" .... "erm you were supposed to call me?" ... "oh yh that’s right, i forgot".

Well, it was done and she gave me the homologacao number.

Now I had everything done, so I went to Alfandega to submit all my paperwork and begin the matriculation process. The woman in Alfandega went through all of my documents and told me some things weren't right:

- One of the list items is a photocopy of the passport. I had the photo page, but she wanted every page, even the empty ones and the front and back covers

- My Virgin Media bills were no good, they don’t accept phone/internet/tv bills, only council tax, rent, gas, electric, water. This sucked as I know Peter did it with Virgin Media ... didn’t folks different rules. I gave her my letting agent letter and she said that would do, but I'd have to get it officially translated into Portuguese. I didn’t know what an official translation entailed and when I asked her if she knew anybody who did it ... the answer was 'no idea'.

- I gave them my Atestado which is what I used for residency. She didn’t accept it because the Atestado said it was for Tavira Camara and it had to say it’s for Alfandega ... and have the exact same date of when I arrived into Portugal as is on the Embassy residency transfer document.

21st FEB

I got my Portuguese tutor to translate the letter for me and pay a notary €25 to make it look official. I went back to Alfandega with everything they asked for including the new Atestado from the Junta de Freguesia.

The woman this time accepted all of my documents and told me to come back in 30 mins to proceed to the next step. When I returned, another woman came out and told me we have a problem .... aaarrggghh.

She said that the letter from the lettings agent isn’t valid proof that I was in the UK 12 months prior to arriving into Portugal and I need rent receipts. I flipped at this point and told her it isn’t fair, the other woman told me I needed this and I paid for it and I don't have much time left now until my deadline date of 5th March. She said "the other woman is just a front desk clerk, she doesn’t know the rules" .... ffs, so why don’t you tell her so everybody follows the same frickin rule set?

Anyway, she assured me I won’t miss my deadline as the process has started and I could come back in 6 months if I wanted to. This didn't make sense to me: when the English letter had to be translated into Portuguese, this had to be done before the process had started and the clock was still ticking ... whereas now the process has started, the clock has stopped ticking yet I’m in the same boat, needing proof.

8th MAR

I'm back in Alfandega with rent receipts ... I had 15 months just to make sure it was over a year. This time she accepted these and told me I'd receive a phone call when they go through all the documents and I'm successful in proceeding onwards.

She gave me a document which gave me 1 month driving permit in case I was stopped by the police, so at least I was legal.

14th MAR

I receive a phone call saying my documents are ready to collect from Alfandega. I was flying to England this day so I ignored them.

28th MAR

I go back to Alfandega and pick up my Certificate of Conformity and the DAV document which is the official one with my Portuguese plates (matricula) on it. So I now had a Portuguese number plate, awesome.

I had to tell the woman to give me the part of my original V5C document that I need to export the car out of the UK ... she had to ask around before giving it to me as she didn't know to do this.

I made an error here tho. The woman gave me all of my docs. I expected there to still be more hurdles with IMTT so I said "oh, you gave me a document last time to make me legal driving here for 1 month, can I have an extension while I continue to sort this out?"

As soon as I said that she snatched my documents from my hand and said she can’t give them to me until I give her the old expired document. Come one man, seriously?

I told her it was in the car which was parked far away (free parking) and I walked for 40 mins ... and it doesn’t make sense as that doc is expired. She wouldn’t have it ... before there was no problem but now she wouldn’t give me my documents.

So I had to go get the expired sheet and exchange it with her ... a complete waste of my time as I wanted to go IMTT before they closed too.

At 2pm I go to IMTT and wait (they close at 4). I have a list of things I have to give to IMTT and think I’m missing something, so I run back to Alfandega with the V5C export slip in my hand. When I reach Alfandega, I realize my hand is empty so I've lost the export slip ... and then I find out the thing I thought was missing I already had in my collection of a million documents (so confusing). So I run back and I still have to wait for an hour.

I finally get called at 3.55pm, just before closing and give the woman all of my documents and the one that customs just gave me. She registers my new matricula in the system and I pay €45 to do this.

I then immediately go few shops next door to the plate shop and give them this same doc to create the plates for me. I ask the guy to give me a hand to fix them on as my current ones are stuck on and not screwed so I wasn’t sure how to get them off. I park up outside the shop and he pulls them off with a spatula, then his boss finds out he's doing this and starts shouting at him saying it’s not their job to do this and they need to close and this is a big job having to clean the paintwork before sticking the new ones on, etc.

Anyway, I get the new plates stuck on and I drive home. Price for plates: €19, plus €3 tip for helping me swap them.

1st APR

I get my insurance switched over to the Portuguese plate (I had a policy with iBex so I got a pro-rated refund and needed to start a new 1 yr policy from this date, as opposed to just switching over plates on the existing policy).

I also go to the Financas office to pay my road tax as I've been told by many that it has to be done within 30 days or you receive a fine. I didn't know 30 days from what ... when I asked Alfandega they said "no idea ask IMTT" and when I asked IMTT they said "no idea ask financas" ... they just don’t want to know here.

The Alfandega document said I received the new plates in 14th March so I assumed it was 30 days from here. After a 2 hour wait in Financas I was seen and asked to pay the road tax (imposto do circulacao), yet she couldn't find my number plate in the system and asked to come back end of April. "But I only have 30 days" ... "oh no it's 90 days" .... hmmm, do I believe that?

Since then I've signed up for Financas Portal and am waiting for the password to arrive via post, then I can pay this myself online.

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SUMMARY OF COSTS

Atestado - €3
Residency certificate - €15
Certificate of Conformity - £96 = €113
Headlamp/fog switch - €341.98
Car owners manual (which wasn’t needed) - £19.45 = €23
Residency transfer at embassy - €159
2 Financas docs that I don’t owe anything (only 1 was needed) - €20.32
2 IPO tests - €70.34 each = €140.68
4 tyres - €350
Alfandega forms - €1.80
Letting agent letter - £25.96 = €30
Photocopying, stationary, printing - €30
Register car in IMTT - €45
Portuguese plates - €22
Tolls on A22 - €34.63
Fuel (750 km for 9 trips) - €70
Parking - €3.85

Total = €1,403

Post costs: insurance (€39 to change policy as Portuguese insurance is cheaper than on UK plate) and road tax (not sure how much this will be, its treated as a brand new car for tax purposes so will be high)


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## canoeman

congratultions


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## southsussex

A great post for me as I want to matriculate mine when I come over. Thanks! I just hope that officialdom is kind to me when I do it !!


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## canoeman

It's all in the preparation


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## vanrouge

To Import or Not to Import... this was my dilemma 

Current Uk car with UK reg cost £6500 Or 7800€ (approx)

Cost of importing (free of Taxes) about 1600€ plus all the time spent chasing ones tail!!

Buy secondhand model here in Portugal from Dealer/private seller Cost 10000€

This means i have overpaid for the same car by 2000€

But the big plus is i have a LHD model that will sell in Portugal when i need to change it.

What is the market place for a RHD model and how much would you get for it?

And the final plus is low car tax, I am not paying annual tax for a new car and driving an old model!

I hope this helps a few of you still sitting on the fence and getting splinters!!


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## siobhanwf

WELL DONE!!! :clap2::clap2:


Always remember that cars registered (matriculated) after July 2007 here in Portugal must pay the higher road tax. 
Even cars bought here and first registered after that date are affected the same way.


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## Verinia

I am about two weeks behind this poster and all the same things have applied. I can say it has been an adventure. I have learned a lot from it, but towards the end it gets very tedious. Just one thing...I do think if the tires are the same two on the back and the same two on the front you are ok...I also think that all these hoops are partially meant to deter people matriculating without tax, but hey, times are difficult I guess.


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## Verinia

Ps Thanks Etchy Boy...it's posts like yours that have helped us through. Well done!


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## Etchy Boy

Verinia said:


> Ps Thanks Etchy Boy...it's posts like yours that have helped us through. Well done!


Hey no worries guys, glad to help.

The one thing I forgot to mention was that I've heard from many that once you matriculate a car, you cant sell it for a year. The woman at customs was adamant this is 5 yrs, and when I said its 1, she says "no since 2007 its 5" which seems crazy to me ... I dont think she's right.


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## canoeman

You must *remain* a Resident for 1 year, you *cannot* sell it for 1 year, if you did you would be charged the ISV, if you sell between year 2 & 5 then there is a proportional charge.

so she's right and wrong


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## Etchy Boy

canoeman said:


> You must *remain* a Resident for 1 year, you *cannot* sell it for 1 year, if you did you would be charged the ISV, if you sell between year 2 & 5 then there is a proportional charge.
> 
> so she's right and wrong


I see, thx bro


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## rober1t

*Similar Frustration*

Well done Etchy Boy, great description of your experience.

I agree, it is a very frustrating exercise.

I went through this process myself two years ago.
I have retold the story a number of times, but I did not have the patience to write it all up.

I too had to have two IPO tests. In my case, it was because I had tinted windows on my LHD Opel. I had bought this brand new from a LHD specialist in the UK and then kept it for a year, before starting the import process.
When I asked if tinted windows were illegal, I was told they were not, but they must be factory fitted and mentioned on the car documentation. The distributor had fitted my tints, prior to delivery to the dealer and although, I was able to prove this, it was still not good enough.
So I bought a steam cleaner and cleaned them off myself.
Similar to you, my retest took about 1 minute and cost another 70 Euros!

I had to endure 11 trips to the Customs House in Faro. I got to know it so well, that I enjoy looking down on it, as I fly into Faro airport.

I was also told that my documentation was inadequate a number of times.
I noticed that the Customs Officers became more objectionable, the closer I got to a successful outcome.
I can speak some Portuguese, but I am definitely not fluent, so the officers initially spoke to me in English.
However, during later visits, as I approached success, the same officers denied that they could speak English. When I replied saying that they could speak English a few days before, they lied, saying it was not them. They insisted that I brought an interpreter.
I returned for my 10th visit with my language teacher and she helped me through the process.

I decided to play a game with the two officers (who I had met before, while they were still English speakers).
In English, I asked my teacher to get their full names. They asked why.
In English, I said "Don't tell them this, but if I don't get agreement today, I am going to report them to the Government Ombudsman for time wasting".
Their reaction to this English statement was amazing!!

I received my papers from the Customs Office and then went to the IMTT office for a further unpleasant experience.
At one point, I told the officer that I was giving up and I would drive my car illegally like many other expats do. I reached across the desk and took back all my papers and my cash and got up to walk out.
At this point, she changed her attitude and completed the exercise!!

It seems that the officers will only work when threatened.

My wife is sure that the officers suck lemons every morning to get themselves in a bad mood.

I can understand that they may want to make it awkward for us to import a car without paying the full tax bill, but as this is a legal way of doing it, I believe that the officers should act with integrity.

They do not!


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## canoeman

Just like to balance yours and Etchy Boys experience, I've not dealt with Faro so can't comment But I have dealt with 3 other customs offices and not had any problems at all, yes they've been sticklers for everything being exactly so but no unnecessary hurdles orobstructions to contend with, so their not all bad


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## rober1t

*It may be just Faro*

I have heard that Lisbon deals with this in a different way, so somebody needs to look at the management style at Faro, because the attitude is endemic!!


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## canoeman

There's always a Government complaint book


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## rober1t

Yes, but I always avoided that while I was mid-process, in case it went against me!


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## travelling-man

When I bought my classic Jeep in from South Africa the Customs & Irritations couldn't have been nicer or more accommodating.

I did however get a call for me to take it back so they could look it over a second time but all they did was recheck the numbers & compliment me on having such a nice car.

I guess it's all a matter of luck as to who you get & what mood they're in on the day.


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## rober1t

Which Customs and IPO office did you go to?


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## canoeman

rober1t said:


> Yes, but I always avoided that while I was mid-process, in case it went against me!


Quite understandable, but unfortunately if complaints aren't made nothing improves


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## travelling-man

rober1t said:


> Which Customs and IPO office did you go to?


It came in through Lisboa initially & the recall was to Aveiro where the guy spent 5 minutes checking the numbers & 30 talking about the car.


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## canoeman

rober1t said:


> Which Customs and IPO office did you go to?


For Matriculation you have to use the Customs, IMTT and IPO for the Region your Resident in, it's not a pick and choose option except for IPO where the only requirement is it can do class 2 tests and there are few of those per Region


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## travelling-man

I had to take to Pombal for the matriculation inspection & they made me take off the side exhausts and replace them with a standard system but then when I took it back 12 months later for the normal inspection I questioned them about that & they told me I could keep the side pipes as long as I also had them going through an EU approved silencer so in effect, I've had to do the job twice........ I was not impressed but it may well have been part of the original requirement was lost in translation. 

I'm now having the side pipes refitted as per their instructions/requirements and we'll see what happens at the next inspection.


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## canoeman

Your next inspection can be at *any* IPO station, the first is part of matriculation process where car has to comply with manufacturers stated items CoC or similar, apart from safety, lights etc issues


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## travelling-man

Yup.... I was aware of that. Thanks. 

I had a letter from Jeep saying the pipes were an acceptable replacement but they still made me change them but they also made me change the running light config from the American system to the Euro one and yet the Govt website says cars over 25 years old may keep their original set ups except for the headlights and fog etc having to be moved to the correct side.

It wasn't the end of the world though.


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## Etchy Boy

Rober1t, thx for sharing ur experience ... man sounds like u had it unfair ... I didnt have any of that ... it was illogical but I think thats the way coz they're useless here.

At least u managed to get it done in the end ... shame about having to steam clean off the tinted windows, that must have hurt


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## Etchy Boy

ps been a month since changing my plates and I STILL cant pay the road tax ... my matricula doesnt exist in the system and I havent received the livrete. Gonna head back into IMTT next week, grrrr


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## Verinia

*Help me keep my cool!*



Etchy Boy said:


> ps been a month since changing my plates and I STILL cant pay the road tax ... my matricula doesnt exist in the system and I havent received the livrete. Gonna head back into IMTT next week, grrrr


Oh dear, oh dear. I have just returned form my third visit form the Alfandega in Faro. I am trying to import my elderly Renault Kangoo into Portugal sim impostos. I have given them every bit of paper they have asked for and more and done things to the book. I don't speak brilliant Portugese but enough to get by I think. I went armed with everything written down and translated as well. However, having done all I was asked and been given a month's notice to drive I was sent a letter which I thought better to respond to by physically going to the Alfandega. Problem is, to cut a long story short is that our utility bills in England are in my husband's name. My name is on the bill too but only as Mrs and my surname with no initials which they won't accept. I took our council tax bills with both of our names on but they won't accept that either. They wont accept our bank accounts. Also, we sold our Enbglish house last June and lived with my daughter in England until becoming residents there so no bills either from June to September. They asked for my daughter's passport, a copy of her utility bills and an attestado from her that we lived with her for five months but seems that this isn't enough.( I even presented her at the alfandega when she came here on holiday for a week!) They wont tell me what I can do further accept put everything in writing to the technico we saw today! I dont' see the point in this. They also asked me to bring someone who spoke Portugese, but I said what is the point of that, since you can't tell me what more you want? I I understood well enough what was being said to me and what was required, so felt that it wasnt necessary to waste further time.

I HAVE fulfilled all their criteria, I just can't prove it to their satisfaction. I think it is silly that they have to have a utility bill in your name, when married couples often have the name of one or the other partner. I pointed out that when we went to get the electricity bill registered with the EDP here they asked for it in my husband's name. They also found it difficult to understand why the UK registration document hadmy daughter's address on it. I explained that it was the only way to be legal in UK.

Please can anyone tell me:


Could I get the president of the Junta to help me? Do they do this sort of thing?
Can you appeal if you are turned down on this (they have given me a month's extensio)
What kind of approach would you take from here (I intend to take it all to the bittter end as a matter of principle even if I have to pay the tax!)


They have sent me away asking me to put everything in writing (to the same person I spoke to for over an hour)

Jut learn from my pain, folks and make sure you have evidence in your name of your residence in England a year before you come, especially important if you are married.

I don't want to get cynical and have seen this process as a bit of an adventure and learned much along the way...but I have to say I am getting a bit fed up now!


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## travelling-man

Verina

I REALLY admire your patience. 

There's no way I'd be willing to play that game...... I'd have put it in the hands of an agent looooong ago!


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## rober1t

OK. First re agents. The one we were recommended wanted 1,000 euros up front, with no guarantee of success, so I would avoid them.
Second, it seems as though you are going through similar frustrations that I had.
Even though, I can speak reasonable Portuguese, they insisted that I brought a Portuguese person with me. When I asked what the problem was with my application, they kept saying "Bring a Portuguese person with you"
I took my Portuguese teacher with me and threatened to complain to the government ombudsman, if they did not agree to my application.

In my case, they asked for one more bit of proof (I think to save face) and then they agreed.

My advice is take a Fluent Portuguese speaker, get hard with them and they should agree.

Good luck.


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## travelling-man

Wow. E1000 is waaaay over the top. 

IIRC, I paid E600 and I was lead to understand there was no question of failure. ( I had however made sure I had all the required paperwork and more before I imported)

I've got to say, the agent I used turned out to know what he was doing when it came to matriculating a normal car but had no idea about matriculating a classic car & for that reason, I wouldn't use him again but there are plenty of agents that'll do the job properly for something in the region of E500-E600 and possibly less.

I REALLY take my hat off to anyone who can do it themselves though!


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## canoeman

Sorry to here of your problems but I'm afraid this is where preparation is necessary especially when it comes to Utility bills, i know it's stupid but they will just not accept them in the wrong or joint names, and says so, I believe its something to do with the difference in terms of a UK & Portuguese marriage and they expect the same criteria as Portuguese documents.
Re your daughters you could have got around simply by getting a Rent book and having her complete it for the time you where there, this would have covered residence and utilities if they where mentioned as being inclusive.

The important thing is how to go forward, your Junta or Camara President is very unlikely to help, agent I wouldn't touch with a bargepole as useful as they can be they won't argue or fight your corner, can you get Utilities bills re done in UK in your sole name? as that would be simplest solution or can you get a statement from your UK Utilities saying you are the Mrs Verina XXXXX but in UK Law initials etc are not a requirement. 

I think your alternative is to take a hard line as suggested by rober1t but represented by solicitor but I wouldn't be too surprised if your turned down as technically your not meeting the criteria, prior to that, I would get in contact with HQ of customs and see what their take is on your situation
Documento da vida quotidiana que ateste a residência no país de proveniência, designadamente, recibos de renda de casa, consumo de água, electricidade, recibos de vencimento ou provas de desconto para efeitos de saúde e reforma

Document of everyday life attesting residence in the country of origin, namely, receipts rent, water, electricity, payslips or proof of discount for the purpose of health and retirement.

And these are expected to be in your sole name

Faro is probably the least friendly of all Customs I know about


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## Verinia

Thankyou all for your support. Unfortunately, moving here as a resident was a decision which events made us do suddenly. One of those life things. I must say I think I am prepared to fight this one to the end as a matter of principal. I am legal in every sense of the word and because of the inflexibility of the proof asked for I can't fulfil the criteria. We owned our own house, so no rent book (perhaps I should manufacture a landlord-ie lie) touch up an electricity bill in Photoshop (forge) or some other misdemeanour. But I won't do that. I am afraid that I have observed one set of behaviours towards people paying the tax (they didn't have to go off down the road to get every page of their passport photocopied, people spoke English to them etc etc 

Very much the same thing has happened to me at Faro office as everyone else, so they are applying the rules fairly, its just that the rules are unfair in my case, I feel. They are sticking to the minutest bureaucratic detail if you want to avoid tax and I suspect that is because their jobs depend on it (that is my slant on it anyway) Everything they have said to me does make sense it terms of their rules, but it is unfair when I have fulfilled every single criteria (my car since 2007, residency rules all ok etc, trying to speak and negotiate in Portugese) and I really can't understand why they can't accept a council bill in joint names. I will ring Head Office. I can't see why I have to take someone who speaks Portugese along to hear the same thing. I wonder if all the people who have tried to buck the system in the past has made it more difficult for people trying to do it by the book (my take again-I have seen some people in the Alfandega behaving very badly towards the staff) At the end of the day, I will keep the car even if I have to pay the tax (which isn't a huge amount but that's not the point) But I will patiently and forcefully pursue this as a matter of principle. I actually think it is wrong and probably discriminatory against women as quite a lot of women have utility bills in their husband's names.


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## canoeman

Rent book I was referring to time spent at your daughter.

Sympathize but even the "nice" customs centers apply the "rules" to the letter.
I would attempt the UK end and try to either change name on Utilities or a statement as to why no "definitive" identification of yourself

They could catch you out on paying ISV so take care as although you don't need to prove the ownership, residence etc criteria, just ownership and Residence here, you must start the "matriculation" procedure within 20 days of cars importation so you could well face a fine although technically its not your fault


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## Verinia

canoeman said:


> Rent book I was referring to time spent at your daughter.
> 
> Sympathize but even the "nice" customs centers apply the "rules" to the letter.
> I would attempt the UK end and try to either change name on Utilities or a statement as to why no "definitive" identification of yourself
> 
> They could catch you out on paying ISV so take care as although you don't need to prove the ownership, residence etc criteria, just ownership and Residence here, you must start the "matriculation" procedure within 20 days of cars importation so you could well face a fine although technically its not your fault



I know you meant rent book re my daughter and very grateful for your very good advice, as always. Just feeling a bit fed up this morning because I haven't had my coffee yet lol


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## rober1t

As a suggestion that you may wish to follow, I had a similar problem with the gas and electricity bills, in that we had stayed for a while at my daughters house, during the 12 month qualifying period, as we had rented our house, in preparation for the move to Portugal. So some of the bills we had were in her name.
They accepted a letter from her, written in English and Portuguese, saying that I had stayed with her for that period.
I also produced rental receipts from her for each month we were there, saying that we had paid rent. They (very reluctantly) accepted that.
By the way, I have seen the agents treated much more kindly than the general public. So I wonder whether back-handers are involved??


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## Verinia

PS Just phoned the electricity company and they have agreed to change the bills into my name retrospectively for three pounds a bill....brilliant. Thankyou for the suggestion Canoeman!


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## Verinia

Lol I feel duty bound to tell you the continuing story....so Eon kindly changed all the bills to my name and sent them to me, bless them. So now I had 8 months of bills in my name, but sold house in June and went to live with daughter until November. The customs in Faro originally asked for utility bills in her name, a copy of her passport and a signed statement we lived with her for four months. But this is not enough. I have shown them my driving licence with her address, my final bill from Eon in that address, but now I have to provide bank statements and my paper driving licence. Be warned. Utility bills in your own name is really the only proof they accept...not even council tax bills and no phone bills. If I ever do get to the end of this I will be throwing a matriculation party. I have done many difficult things in my life...but this is like one of those endless treasure hunts! Still, on the bright side...I have learned a lot of Portugese LOL


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## canoeman

Faro seem to be an extremely awkward Customs house 
This why your having this issue with them because Rates aren't mentioned as a document and they all tend to take the stance only whats written, which is why I said get your daughter to complete a Rent book for your time with her, which is an acceptable document but maybe too late now

"Document of everyday life attesting residence in the country of origin, namely, *the rent receipts*, consumption of water, electricity, payslips or proof off for the purpose of health and retirement."


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## Verinia

canoeman said:


> Faro seem to be an extremely awkward Customs house
> This why your having this issue with them because Rates aren't mentioned as a document and they all tend to take the stance only whats written, which is why I said get your daughter to complete a Rent book for your time with her, which is an acceptable document but maybe too late now
> 
> "Document of everyday life attesting residence in the country of origin, namely, *the rent receipts*, consumption of water, electricity, payslips or proof off for the purpose of health and retirement."



I feel a rent book coming on....lol...


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## Verinia

*We've done it!*

Finally got the plates! We are so happy and REALY grateful for all the advice given here and in other forums. thanks Canoeman and Etchyboy. We overcame the utility bill issue by asking Eon to change the bills retrospectively to my name from my husband's, which they kindly did...for three pounds a bill. 

Slight hiccup at the end. The Afandega kept all our original documents...and only gave us back the Certificate of Conformity. But when you got to the IMTT with the DAV (duplicate and original given to you by the Alfandega) you also need your Modelo 9 Original and copy, copies of personal stuff like passport and fiscal and residencia, a verified copy of your UK registration document and your yellow IPOD form (original)
We waited an hour in IMTT before they told us this and had to return to the , who at first said we had the originals, but then found them, so beware. Also make sure you get the tear off slip to send back to the UK.

The IMTT fill in your Portugese license number from the DAV and then you can take the IMTT Modelo 9 form to make the plates up in a shop two doors up (19 euros)

In three weeks we have to go to the Conservatoria at Loule and get the Livrete.

Would we go through this again?

Yes!

Because:

We have visited many places and learnt a lot about how things work.
We have saved a lot of money..about 2000 euros. However,we are retired. I would not even try to do this if I was working full time or had children!
We have learnt a lot of Portugese!
We have got to know Faro very well!
It was one of the most challenging things we have ever had to do and we did it!

But if you want to do it:
Prepare, prepare, prepare.
If you don't speak some Portugese, you won't manage...get an agent or a friend to help you.
Understand you have to do everything to the letter of the 
law and be patient. 
It will cost you about 1000 euros anyway.

And:
Make sure you know where the engine number is on your chassis
If you have had any modifications done eg GPL or engine change make sure it is reflected on UK registration document or don't bother
Get your fog light changed over if you only have one..and headlights
ABOVE ALL have 12 monthproof of residency in utility bills in your name in UK up to residency, especially at Faro..they are very strict on this.
Don't get mad (I did a couple of times) It just doesn't help.

THANKYOU TO THIS FORUM! WITHOUT YOU WE COULDN'T HAVE DONE IT!


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## canoeman

Congratulations


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## travelling-man

Congratulations!


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## Verinia

canoeman said:


> Congratulations


Thanks and thanks for all your help and encouragement!


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## oronero

You must be so proud of your achievement especially after having to jump so many problematic hurdles...well done! :clap2:


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## canoeman

One of the lessons is if at all possible* don't use *Faro Customs for matriculation there have a history of being the most difficult and awkward Customs House for this 

The two I've dealt with although as Verinia says want all i's & t's crossed are certainly not as difficult to deal with and even helpful


----------



## oronero

canoeman said:


> One of the lessons is if at all possible* don't use *Faro Customs for matriculation there have a history of being the most difficult and awkward Customs House for this
> 
> The two I've dealt with although as Verinia says want all i's & t's crossed are certainly not as difficult to deal with and even helpful


Thanks for the tip *Canoeman*, though I think I would be doing this with a branch closer to Lisbon. 

However saying all that I might do things very differently as I am not keen with either registering my vehicle as a historic (this restricts the annual mileage but provides the car with a nil-to pay road fund tax) or registering the car normally and being made to pay the current rate of road fund tax (which treats cars as if they are new, irrespective of year manufactured and charges the current fee of over 700 Euros). 

I have an idea but will investigate this further when I am over later this month.


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## canoeman

By registering as a "historic" vehicle it still gives you the option of bringing and matriculating a "normal" car ISV free which could give you a far greater saving, IUC is very dependent on cc and co2


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## oronero

canoeman said:


> By registering as a "historic" vehicle it still gives you the option of bringing and matriculating a "normal" car ISV free which could give you a far greater saving, IUC is very dependent on cc and co2


Yes but as *travellingman* stated, they restrict your mileage to 500kms, though it seems some ignore this. This was covered in this post -classic-car-road-tax-exemption.html
Sadly my car has an engine size of 3528cc, I am not sure of its co2 rating though it will not be good due to the fact that in rally spec it will do approx 4 miles to the gallon!  The IUC rate I feel could be rather high. 

I think I may have to 'skin the cat' differently and do something outside of the box!


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## travelling-man

Registering the vehicle as a car of historical interest does indeed give you exemption from road tax and does indeed restrict your permitted mileage.

FWIW, the guy at the Financas office told me the mileage restriction is 500 kms per year BUT I was also told by APC Classicos that that the limitation isn't usually checked...... and FWIW, I suspect the 500 km I was told is in fact 5000 and the guy got that wrong but I haven't checked that.

The reason I suspect he got that wrong is my car is also insured with ACP Classicos and as a car of historical interest and the km limitation on my insurance policy is 5000 km rather than 500 km.


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## oronero

I will check with regards to the mileage for classics if it is indeed 500 or 5000kms when I am over. If it is the later then the 'cat is saved'!


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## travelling-man

Incidentally, my insurance only cost something like E40 for the year!


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## oronero

travelling-man said:


> Incidentally, my insurance only cost something like E40 for the year!


Surely that is not fully comprehensive insurance cover?

I have a feeling that insuring a car with a replacement value in excess of E40,000, in my case, will cost more than E40!


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## travelling-man

No. not fully comp. Others have told me they can get FC here but every time I've asked, and I've asked several companies, they've all told me it's not available. 

No idea why.


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## canoeman

oronero said:


> Yes but as *travellingman* stated, they restrict your mileage to 500kms, though it seems some ignore this. This was covered in this post -classic-car-road-tax-exemption.html
> Sadly my car has an engine size of 3528cc, I am not sure of its co2 rating though it will not be good due to the fact that in rally spec it will do approx 4 miles to the gallon!  The IUC rate I feel could be rather high.
> 
> I think I may have to 'skin the cat' differently and do something outside of the box!


The point I was trying to get across is that if you import car as a "classic" as a Resident then it won't affect your right to import a ordinary car free of ISV with your initial move, with the right car your IUC won't be 700€ odd €'s per year and you could afford to run it.

As the "classic" its to rally specs I don't think you would be able to import as "a car" as Verinia points out if it's not all specified on the logbook and CoC it's very unlikely to pass IPO but would qualify as "Historic Interest"


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## Verinia

canoeman said:


> One of the lessons is if at all possible* don't use *Faro Customs for matriculation there have a history of being the most difficult and awkward Customs House for this
> 
> The two I've dealt with although as Verinia says want all i's & t's crossed are certainly not as difficult to deal with and even helpful



I would agree it's difficult at Faro....very! But I think you need to do it in the Alfandega which has the jurisdiction of the area you are living in....I think I saw it on a notice?


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## oronero

canoeman said:


> The point I was trying to get across is that if you import car as a "classic" as a Resident then it won't affect your right to import a ordinary car free of ISV with your initial move, with the right car your IUC won't be 700€ odd €'s per year and you could afford to run it.


Are you saying that I could bring two vehicles in, an ordinary car to use up my free ISV allowance and also a "classic" under "historic Interest" ?



canoeman said:


> As the "classic" its to rally specs I don't think you would be able to import as "a car" as Verinia points out if it's not all specified on the logbook and CoC it's very unlikely to pass IPO but would qualify as "Historic Interest"


The modifications carried out to the car are covered by "homologation papers" supplied by the manufacturer and endorsed by the FIA, this is a form of certificate of confority and the vehicle would have it's own motorsport passport. All this documentation is also checked and verified with the Portuguese branch of the FIA, who I believe are FEDERACAO PORTUGUESA DE AUTOMOBILISMO E KARTING,
(FPAK).

This is all rather wordy and it will be much easier for me to sort this out face to face before I move over on one of my many recce and shipping things over in preparation trips.


----------



## canoeman

Yes rules do say at Alfandega of your region and a list is published to that effect but I have heard of people using other Alfandega

Yes, you could bring 1 car and Matriculate free of ISV but usual 12 month ownership, UK Residence required, your "classic" could be imported as a personal import *onceyou're a Resident* free of ISV if it meets the "historic" criteria which as you say above has the necessary paperwork to support that import.


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## oronero

canoeman said:


> Yes rules do say at Alfandega of your region and a list is published to that effect but I have heard of people using other Alfandega
> 
> Yes, you could bring 1 car and Matriculate free of ISV but usual 12 month ownership, UK Residence required, your "classic" could be imported as a personal import *onceyou're a Resident* free of ISV if it meets the "historic" criteria which as you say above has the necessary paperwork to support that import.


Thankyou *Canoeman* for clarification, though to bring a normal car in to use the ISV element would mean having to purchase something now so that I can register residency next summer. With the costs of the rebuild on the rally car and having to purchase something else to make use of this means stretching my finances possibly too far.

I wonder if motorcycles are also included in the vehicles of 'historic interest'?

Unless there is a significant difference in values inside and outside of Portugal I cannot see the point of purchasing something merely to make use of the 'free from ISV' element

I had seen that 2008 Bentley Continentals were being advertised in Portugal at E70,000 plus and one could purchase in Germany a similar year and model one for about E40,000. A significant difference, another possibility is the Audi R8. Both have significantly large engine capacities. 

.


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## Etchy Boy

Nicely one Verinia, celebration time 

FYI with me I went to the conservatoria 1 month after getting my plates, and they said "oh we have nothing in the system, you should have come straight away" so id pop along sooner to make sure things get done


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## canoeman

Yes there is a considerable difference in values forget Continental & Audi R8 you're immediately putting yourself in high IUC bracket which if you want to sell at anytime is going to affect value, I was thinking of more of a practical day to day car small cc low co2, yes motorcycles are included but also cheap ti import and pay ISV

Etchy boy don't forget your road tax IUC also has to be paid within a certain time frame, fined for late payment otherwise


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## oronero

To be honest *Canoeman* there is little out there as a normal car that I currently like and I have seen using sites like olx.pt that you can get a 10 year old Renault Clio or a Volvo V70 for a reasonable price.

If one considers that these cars are generally less rusty than the UK equivalent plus their road tax rates are set at when the cars were registered on year of manufacture, the prices seem reasonable. I suppose one thing to watch out for with Portuguese cars is UV damage to trim and paintwork.

Something which should not be overlooked is the costs in having to matriculate even if it is 'ISV free', *Verinia* mentions the sum of E1,000 in administration, plate fees etc. and that was with her doing everything, no agent.


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## daisyman1951

*Stunned*

Having read my way through this post I am absolutely stunned at everyone's tenacity. You are all amazing!


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## Verinia

Sorry I can't resist one last update. Kept going to the Conservatoria to get my log book, but the IMTT hadn't put the details on the computer...back to IMTT twice...had to pay 160 euros more for a new homologika number as we had had the car converted to LPG in England...finally (we matriculated it in May) got the details into the system to get my log book. So ten months later we are probably nearly legal. Still to get tax. I hope no one ever talks to me about matriculating a car in a day. I wouldn't like to tell them what I think about that! Plus side...saved the agents fee, this car would have cost me a lot to buy second hand here, learned a lot of Portugese, found out where a lot of places are, learned that you just have to put one foot in front of the other, look people in the eye and persist, persist , persist where Portugese officialdom is concerned. at least here, you can get to speak to a real person, not an answering machine. but...don't think I could have done it myself if not retired with time and much people experience under my belt lol. Husband also did a great deal of good by kicking me under the table on the occasions where I was losing it!


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## PPashley

Great to hear of some success stories on this. 

Congratulations - seems a lot of preparation, organisation and patience is required !!


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## canoeman

Preparation and paperwork is the key and not using Faro Customs

It's putting yourself in the mindset of a Portuguese Customs Officer as an example ownership papers, UK VN is not a proof of ownership so it's important that the name of person matriculating is on it not wife, husband or someone else because here the equivalent document can only have registered owner/s or Finance company as car is also registered to your NIF number, so Customs immediately reject application if name different.

Equally utility bills are gas, water, electricity, rates not TV, telephone again the correct name must be on documents, if husband & wife matriculating 2 cars then ownership must be clear on each car and utility bills need to be altered 12 months prior to move so each person has 1 or more Utility bills in their sole name


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## Pgmills

Just completed the free matriculation process through Faro customs. They could not have been more helpful and pointed me in the right direction at each turn. Two month process start to finish. IMT process took an hour and plates done moments later. 
Apparently I can go to the Conservatoria after 28 days to register ownership ( of my own car...) and get the Certificado da matricula organised. 
One interesting point was getting away with providing Feed-in- tariff statements as proof of living in the Uk!


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## p9cbs

Having read the posts on this thread, I am leaning towards buying a car in Portugal rather than trying to bring one with me- it just sounds too complicated. It will be a holiday run around as we do not intend to live in Portugal permanently. I realise we will pay more for a car out there. Does anyone have any experiences they wish to share about this? Is the registration process complicated? What other factors will I need to consider? Thank-you


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## Pgmills

If you are not resident here then the free importation option is not on the table anyway. Buying locally will be your best legal option.


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## robc

Or to not buy at all and run a car on foreign plates as you are entitled to if not resident.


Rob


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## robc

p9cbs said:


> What other factors will I need to consider? Thank-you


In this area, Silver Coast there are some very good used car dealers and some dreadful dealers.
More then the UK you must be vigilant if buying a car, the Portuguese are very good at repairing cars, just not so good at maintaining them. 

If a car salesman says something then treat it with complete suspicion.

Rob


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## p9cbs

robc said:


> Or to not buy at all and run a car on foreign plates as you are entitled to if not resident.
> 
> 
> Rob


Thanks Rob, so I could drive a British car over, leave it in my garage and drive it during my holidays there totally legally then - Is that correct? I wonder how that would work with insurance because I would have it insured in the Uk I would be covered in a foreign country for a certain amount of days but the vehicle would probably not be insured full time. Hmmmm I will have to find out from insurers how that could work.


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## robc

p9cbs said:


> Thanks Rob, so I could drive a British car over, leave it in my garage and drive it during my holidays there totally legally then - Is that correct? I wonder how that would work with insurance because I would have it insured in the Uk I would be covered in a foreign country for a certain amount of days but the vehicle would probably not be insured full time. Hmmmm I will have to find out from insurers how that could work.


I guess you would still have to take the car back to the UK for an MOT
Also many people make a journey of it by going across Spain and/or France and getting a ferry back which is very useful for transporting goods in both directions.

Rob


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## Pgmills

That would be ok if one is driving the vehicle to and from another country for each visit. Leaving a uk reg car here as a run around is opening up the chance of being pulled over for being in breech of the 183 day rule ( for the car not the person) for non residents.


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## BodgieMcBodge

As a non res you may have a foreign reg car here for a max of 183 days (may be 186?) ie 6 months. You can be stopped and asked to prove this as I was earlier this year. Just popping over to Spain and back does not start the 6 months over again.


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## travelling-man

I think you'll find that technically the car can stay no longer than 6 months as Bodgie says but also that it is not supposed to re-enter the country for 6 months after it's left. - Whether that's actually enforced is a different matter entirely.


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## Pgmills

TM. I think that is wrong. The 183 day limit is for the car.


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## travelling-man

Pgmills said:


> TM. I think that is wrong. The 183 day limit is for the car.



sorry. I don't understand your comment? 

I meant that although it's not often enforced, I believe the rule is the car can (legally) stay no longer than 6 months and then must be removed to the country it's registered in and should not re-enter Portugal for 6 months. 

I could be wrong on that but that's what I was told by both GNR & Customs........ but that was nearly 4 years ago so it might have changed.


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## Pgmills

Reread your post and agree with you. We are making the same point.


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## p9cbs

Thanks for all of your replies - goodness, this is complicated!! So have I got this correct? If I want to have a car as a run around but leave it in Portugal, I do not realistically have the option of bringing a car in from the UK? How about if I buy a car in Portugal? What is the deal then? Would it need to be registered in Portugal - can I do this if I am not a resident? How about insuring it?


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## travelling-man

If you have a PT fiscal number, you can buy and insure a PT registered car without any problems.


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## BodgieMcBodge

Not complicated, you just need to decide what you are doing. 
NON-RES
From UK to PT for 5 months or less in one visit then bring your UK car with you (scrap it here if the returning cost is more then the car is worth) From UK to PT for 7 months or more then get a PT car.
RES
Bring one UK car and get it matriculated here if it is cheaper.

Grey area for 5 to 7 months is if you cannot decide what you are doing beforehand.


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## highlands1234

Wow. Was going to ask about pro/con's of bringing a US car over to Portugal vs buying one there. After reading this thread definitely thinking buying a used one over there is the way to go.


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## travelling-man

highlands1234 said:


> Wow. Was going to ask about pro/con's of bringing a US car over to Portugal vs buying one there. After reading this thread definitely thinking buying a used one over there is the way to go.


Not necessarily. If you're coming over permanently and can meet the criteria to import the vehicle tax free, it might be worth your while........ and if you make your tax free import a classic car it may be even more worth it. 

Just a couple of examples, you can buy an early to mid 80s Merc SL or a Jeep Wagoneer in the states for absolute peanuts but here, either vehicle is worth big bucks. (The Merc wins over the Jeep though)

The only drawback is you have to keep the vehicle for 5 years before selling it if you don't want to repay any of that import tax you avoided.


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## highlands1234

Travellingman,

I don't think it's possible though unless I can ship the car over at the same time we come over. We were planning on just catching a transatlantic repositioning cruise to Spain in April and dropping the car off at the same port we are catching the cruise from to be picked up later (the car was going to take longer to get there then the cruise). We would just rent a car until our car arrived. The part that confused me with Etchy boy's post was it sounded like he had already brought his car over from the UK before he could ever legally drive it(3 month wait). So I guess we would have to do that too. Afterall, the car has to be there to get those test done he talked about, correct? The thing is, once we are over there we don't want to have to fly back to the states just to ship the car.

Also it's a ford escape hybrid, doubt they are in demand over there.


----------



## travelling-man

You can drive it as soon as it's imported into the country but it does have to be insured. 

You must begin the matriculation process within 6 months of import. 

Once that matriculation process has begun, you can get Portuguese insurance for it which will be significantly less expensive than your previous cover. 

There are other criteria you'd need to meet if you want to import tax free and you'll find those out by searching this site....... it's all been discussed on several occasions before. 

All that said, you might want to research spares availability here because if you can't get spares, it definitely won't be worth doing.


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## Pgmills

For those of you matriculating in the Algarve, please note that the registration of ownership in Portimao is no longer done at the Conservatoria but at the Camara. I found this out after a happy trip round various government buildings!!


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## HoundGirl

Re: 5 year re-sale rule: - a friend of mine got the free import when the rule was 1 year and got stung for tax when selling it 3 years later - so worse still the rule was retrospective…. grrr.


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## 2charming

*E-billing*

Hi, about to move to Portugal next month and need to address the car issue so thanks for priceless advice. I'm already attuned to 'acheiving one thing a day' and be well prepared. In the UK all my bills, including rent, are paperless - does anyone know if home print outs of bank statements are accepted?
Richard



canoeman said:


> Sorry to here of your problems but I'm afraid this is where preparation is necessary especially when it comes to Utility bills, i know it's stupid but they will just not accept them in the wrong or joint names, and says so, I believe its something to do with the difference in terms of a UK & Portuguese marriage and they expect the same criteria as Portuguese documents.
> Re your daughters you could have got around simply by getting a Rent book and having her complete it for the time you where there, this would have covered residence and utilities if they where mentioned as being inclusive.
> 
> The important thing is how to go forward, your Junta or Camara President is very unlikely to help, agent I wouldn't touch with a bargepole as useful as they can be they won't argue or fight your corner, can you get Utilities bills re done in UK in your sole name? as that would be simplest solution or can you get a statement from your UK Utilities saying you are the Mrs Verina XXXXX but in UK Law initials etc are not a requirement.
> 
> I think your alternative is to take a hard line as suggested by rober1t but represented by solicitor but I wouldn't be too surprised if your turned down as technically your not meeting the criteria, prior to that, I would get in contact with HQ of customs and see what their take is on your situation
> Documento da vida quotidiana que ateste a residência no país de proveniência, designadamente, recibos de renda de casa, consumo de água, electricidade, recibos de vencimento ou provas de desconto para efeitos de saúde e reforma
> 
> Document of everyday life attesting residence in the country of origin, namely, receipts rent, water, electricity, payslips or proof of discount for the purpose of health and retirement.
> 
> And these are expected to be in your sole name
> 
> Faro is probably the least friendly of all Customs I know about


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## christopherdouglas

travelling-man said:


> If you have a PT fiscal number, you can buy and insure a PT registered car without any problems.


Hi Travelling man,
I thought that you needed a residency certificate (can't remember what it's called  )

We need to bring a car with us, following our removal truck, and my current plan is to buy a left hand drive here and then maltricate it.

The best option would be to pop over, buy a car (we have Fiscal numbers and the address) bring it back then move. I just thought I'd read something about the residency?
Cheers,
Chris


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## travelling-man

Chris

To the best of my knowledge you don't need a residencia to insure a car........ I certainly didn't for what that's worth.

If you want to import a foreign registered car on a tax free basis then you need to have had it registered in your name for at least 12 months prior to import. - There are other criteria you also have to meet but that's the most important one.


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## christopherdouglas

travelling-man said:


> Chris
> 
> To the best of my knowledge you don't need a residencia to insure a car........ I certainly didn't for what that's worth.
> 
> If you want to import a foreign registered car on a tax free basis then you need to have had it registered in your name for at least 12 months prior to import. - There are other criteria you also have to meet but that's the most important one.


Brilliant, thanks 
Import tax free is out - buying between now and December !

So, impossible question coming up :

Thinking about how long it can take to do anything in Portugal, if I come over and buy a car, can I walk into a insurance office and insure it there and then?

And, is motor tax transferable with the vehicle? (Not in the UK now) Or can I also do that in the same day?

Regards,
Chris


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## travelling-man

If you're going to import & pay the import tax then be very careful about what car you buy because the import tax is calculated on engine size & emissions not on value of car & also bear in mind that the road tax you pay is calculated on engine size & year of matriculation not year of actual manufacture & that can make a BIG difference........ I imported a car with a 5.9 litre V8 engine & road tax was €778 for the first year. Fortunately it's a classic so after that I got it exempted from road tax.

I've twice insured cars with nothing more than a phone call & an emailed copy of my fiscal & then picked up the paperwork the next day. - I think technically you WERE supposed to have the windscreen sticker on show but my insurance man recently told me that's no longer the case.

As I understand it, the road tax automatically transfers with the vehicle but I could be wrong so probably a good idea to ask in the fiscal office.


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## Jocke

Hi!

We just turned in all the papers to the customs i Faro and the lady there said that only the registered owner where allowed to drive the car, it's regged on my cohabitant girlfriend (we are not married) anyone know if this is correct and is the only way for me to drive (My) car to get married?

Best Rgs Johan


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## Pgmills

Jocke said:


> Hi!
> 
> We just turned in all the papers to the customs i Faro and the lady there said that only the registered owner where allowed to drive the car, it's regged on my cohabitant girlfriend (we are not married) anyone know if this is correct and is the only way for me to drive (My) car to get married?
> 
> Best Rgs Johan


Having done this quite recently, my understanding is that whilst you are in the hiatus period between putting in the papers and getting approval for matriculation the car can only be driven by the owner or their spouse. 
When approval is given the owner then signs a document acknowledging, amongst other things, that for the first year they cannot lend, rent etc the car without suffering a substantial fine. During this year, customs told me that drivers can be spouses antecedents or decendents only.


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## travelling-man

As I understand it & as it was explained to me by customs, only the owner may drive the car until it's matriculated..... once it is matriculated, then anyone can drive it.

I'd suspect it's more about insurance than anything else.


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## Jocke

Pgmills said:


> Having done this quite recently, my understanding is that whilst you are in the hiatus period between putting in the papers and getting approval for matriculation the car can only be driven by the owner or their spouse.
> When approval is given the owner then signs a document acknowledging, amongst other things, that for the first year they cannot lend, rent etc the car without suffering a substantial fine. During this year, customs told me that drivers can be spouses antecedents or decendents only.


Thanks for your answer, to me that sounds like we have to get married to let me drive the car then?
She doesn't like to drive here in the Algarve...

Rgs Johan


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## Jocke

travelling-man said:


> As I understand it & as it was explained to me by customs, only the owner may drive the car until it's matriculated..... once it is matriculated, then anyone can drive it.
> 
> I'd suspect it's more about insurance than anything else.


Thank's TM.

It's just weird that suddenly I can't drive "my" car...
During matriculation it's still having Swedish plates and Swedish insurance so then it would go under Swedish rules or am I wrong here?

Another question is how can the Police check that we have gotten married, do we have to drive around with the wed certificata? 

Rgs Johan


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## travelling-man

I think you'll find getting married won't solve the problem and would suggest you ask the traffic dept or the agent (if you're using one) to clarify who exactly can drive it & when.


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## travelling-man

I think you can forget the marriage solution because I'm 99.999999999999% sure it isn't a solution.

I imported my car 4 years ago & rules might have changed (but probably haven't) and then, the import/registration/matriculation process had to be done in the name of the registered owner in the country it's coming in from and if it was registered to her over there then it must be registered to her here........ in which case only she can drive it until the matriculation process is complete....... but like I say, those were the rules 4 years ago so probably worth checking to see if it's still the same.

ADDED

Until it's matriculated, it needs to be legal in it's home country with respect to tax & insurance etc.


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## Jocke

travelling-man said:


> I think you'll find getting married won't solve the problem and would suggest you ask the traffic dept or the agent (if you're using one) to clarify who exactly can drive it & when.


Yes I guess we have to ask them again...
They are not used to that people can be a couple without being married, on the papers from the tax office they say that she is single and I am divorced


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## travelling-man

Sometimes it's helluva hard to get a well informed opinion from the bureaucrats here......... which is sometimes quite useful!


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## Pgmills

travelling-man said:


> As I understand it & as it was explained to me by customs, only the owner may drive the car until it's matriculated..... once it is matriculated, then anyone can drive it.
> 
> I'd suspect it's more about insurance than anything else.


I have the document that I had to sign regarding the 12 month non loan agreement if you would like a scan. If you paid the import tax then perhaps it is different but part of the tax free deal is a limit on drivers and disposal etc.


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## Jocke

Pgmills said:


> I have the document that I had to sign regarding the 12 month non loan agreement if you would like a scan. If you paid the import tax then perhaps it is different but part of the tax free deal is a limit on drivers and disposal etc.


We also got a paper that she signed, it's in Portuguese, we think it says 12 month but we are not sure what the limitations are... and if we are okey just to get married?


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## travelling-man

With regard to disposal, you have to keep it for at least 5 years OR repay the outstanding tax which is calculated on a pro rata sliding scale over that period.


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## Jocke

travelling-man said:


> With regard to disposal, you have to keep it for at least 5 years OR repay the outstanding tax which is calculated on a pro rata sliding scale over that period.


Yeah, that I understood, thanks.


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## Jocke

A little confused, am I supposed to pick up the plates at an office or are they going to be sent by mail? Got a vague hand written note that states (maybe) that we should get the plates after 2-3 weeks somewhere...


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## travelling-man

The traffic dept send you the registration document and then you get the plates made up at any car accessory shop..... I can't remember the cost but it's not much.


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## Pgmills

travelling-man said:


> The traffic dept send you the registration document and then you get the plates made up at any car accessory shop..... I can't remember the cost but it's not much.


If you have matriculated free then this is certainly not the case. Customs give you the stamped DAV which you take to IMT. IMT stamp it and take you for a few euros and then you take the DAV to any car plate shop ( there is one next door to the faro IMT) and they will make the plates up. Costs about €15. Then after a month you go to your Conservatoria (or in portimao the camera) with your DAV and pay €55 to register your car in your name and then the registration document will come in the post.


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## travelling-man

I used an agent but all I did was have the plates made at my local accessory shop after my registration document arrived in the post. 

Actually, thinking about it, they couldn't do mine because it's an American car and has an unusually shaped rear plate so in the end I had to order online but for ordinary shaped plates the local shop could have made them for me. 

Regarding the unusually shaped number plate, it should be noted I had to have a letter of permission from IMTT which I have to present it at the annual inspection every year.


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## Jocke

Pgmills said:


> If you have matriculated free then this is certainly not the case. Customs give you the stamped DAV which you take to IMT. IMT stamp it and take you for a few euros and then you take the DAV to any car plate shop ( there is one next door to the faro IMT) and they will make the plates up. Costs about €15. Then after a month you go to your Conservatoria (or in portimao the camera) with your DAV and pay €55 to register your car in your name and then the registration document will come in the post.


Thanks guys!

When do I have to put the PT-plates on the car and how do I know when it's not a Swedish car any more?

Can it already be a PT-car even though we don't have the plates?

As you say pgmills "after a month" are you supposed to drive around with PT-plates before you have registered the car in your name?? How about taxes and insurance?


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## Pgmills

Plates go on as soon as you have the Portuguese reg number. Insurance is not a problem as you will take a Portuguese policy as soon as the plates are changed. As for road tax, Financas (who collect iuc) are the last authority to register the car, after the Conservatoria. Once you ownership document arrives then either rock up to Financas or go online to pay the iuc.


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