# security, break-ins, fire



## Twain (May 24, 2009)

/SNIP/

I read a lot about house break-ins.
I guess some areas are more at risk than others.
But right now it sounds like it is burglaries in almost every house throughout Spain.
What do people do to protect themselves? Nothing? Or is not burglaries a priority by the police? And what do the insurance companies do?
What about CCTV?

Right now it feels like I just have to expect to get a break-ins?

This also is some sort of "cost of living" I guess.


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## Cazzy (Nov 23, 2008)

Twain said:


> I read a lot about house break-ins.
> I guess some areas are more at risk than others.
> But right now it sounds like it is burglaries in almost every house throughout Spain.
> What do people do to protect themselves? Nothing? Or is not burglaries a priority by the police? And what do the insurance companies do?
> ...


We hardly ever lock our doors, we leave the car on the street with the keys in. No crime in my little village!


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

Twain said:


> I read a lot about house break-ins.
> I guess some areas are more at risk than others.
> But right now it sounds like it is burglaries in almost every house throughout Spain.
> What do people do to protect themselves? Nothing? Or is not burglaries a priority by the police? And what do the insurance companies do?
> ...


Not exactly true. If you live in the campo/countryside, all the windows will have security bars and then doors will be so stout, it would take several minutes to get through them with an angle grinder. (when we moved in, the two external doors looked liked watertight bulkhead doors, bought when a battleship was decomissioned.They have since been replaced with what looks like wooden doors, but they have a steel plate between the layers of wood.)

Again, if you live in the campo,you might install an alarm system, but if telefonica/moviestar won't give you a line, all it can do is make a noise. Same goes for cctv. You MIGHT have an image of the criminal, but by then, the damage is done and they could also steal the cameras and recording equipment.
The Police will respond to reports of break ins, but unless the villians are intent on clearing the house of everything, by the time they arrive, the crooks are long gone. It is a very rare event that police can catch a house thief during the crime....anywhere in the world.

In our time in Spain, the only thing that was stolen from us, was a very dead car battery, which I wasn't too annoyed about, as it saved me a trip to the ecopark to dispose of it


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Twain said:


> I read a lot about house break-ins.
> I guess some areas are more at risk than others.
> But right now it sounds like it is burglaries in almost every house throughout Spain.
> What do people do to protect themselves? Nothing? Or is not burglaries a priority by the police? And what do the insurance companies do?
> ...


We live in a small village too but our street has a lot of large houses so it's assumed we're all well-off.

We have bars on the windows, metal blinds and an alarm system but most importantly we have a 54 kilo of muscle Rhodesian Ridgeback. Our break-in occurred when we were out with him.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Break-ins are very rare in our village because everyone knows each other and watches out for their neighbours. They even ring our bell and tell us when we've accidentally left the garage light on!

One that has become legendary was at the house of a British couple who had gone home for Christmas. The robbers made a hole in the wall from the patio of an empty house next door, but couldn't take much because the hole was quite small and they couldn't open the doors or windows.

I would never leave doors unlocked though. That's just asking for trouble, inviting opportunistic crime.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> Break-ins are very rare in our village because everyone knows each other and watches out for their neighbours. They even ring our bell and tell us when we've accidentally left the garage light on!
> 
> One that has become legendary was at the house of a British couple who had gone home for Christmas. The robbers made a hole in the wall from the patio of an empty house next door, but couldn't take much because the hole was quite small and they couldn't open the doors or windows.
> 
> I would never leave doors unlocked though. That's just asking for trouble, inviting opportunistic crime.


We know each other and watch out for each other here but that doesn't prevent break-ins. Most here have taken place in the early hours...few are watching then.

The reason we were broken into was that we were stupid - we thought we didn't need to lock up, set the alarm, put the shutters down...We learned our lesson,.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> We know each other and watch out for each other here but that doesn't prevent break-ins. Most here have taken place in the early hours...few are watching then.
> 
> The reason we were broken into was that we were stupid - we thought we didn't need to lock up, set the alarm, put the shutters down...We learned our lesson,.


I suspect your villa probably isn't 4 metres from the windows of your neighbours though. We hear everything going on in the street and would certainly hear anyone trying to wrench off the rejas. However this proximity is not always an advantage, especially when they come back from the Feria at 6 am ...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> I suspect your villa probably isn't 4 metres from the windows of your neighbours though. We hear everything going on in the street and would certainly hear anyone trying to wrench off the rejas. However this proximity is not always an advantage, especially when they come back from the Feria at 6 am ...


One side of the house is but our friends/neighbours are quiet retired people, a lovely Spanish couple with a ninety year-old mum. We look out for each other.

The problem we have is the 'field'between us and our other neighbours. We could slaughter a pig and they'd hear nothing....


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

We live in the campo as well but our nearest house (with any one living in it) is over 1km away - that's because they are all second (or third) homes for some wealthy Spaniards.

I heard of one break-in a couple of years ago but that's all.

Yes we have bars on most of the windows, yes we have a burglar alarm (with a built-in modem to call me on my mobile) but most of all, we have two noisy dogs who would (a) wake the dead and (b) would scare off any would be burglar.

However, having said all that, the other houses don't have such defences and have still not been broken into. Maybe we've just been lucky in this area?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> However, having said all that, the other houses don't have such defences and have still not been broken into. Maybe we've just been lucky in this area?


Or perhaps there aren't as many break-ins as people think? This table - albeit from 2009 - shows that there were only 84k domestic burglaries reported in Spain, compared to 268k in England & Wales and 179k in France.

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/st...the_police_-_Domestic_burglary,_2003-2009.PNG


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

We havent been broken in to here in 6.5 years., and a couple of years more before we moved here. 

In the UK, we were broken into in nearly every house we ever owned.


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## Twain (May 24, 2009)

dunmovin said:


> Not exactly true. If you live in the campo/countryside, all the windows will have security bars and then doors will be so stout, it would take several minutes to get through them with an angle grinder. (when we moved in, the two external doors looked liked watertight bulkhead doors, bought when a battleship was decomissioned.They have since been replaced with what looks like wooden doors, but they have a steel plate between the layers of wood.)
> 
> Again, if you live in the campo,you might install an alarm system, but if telefonica/moviestar won't give you a line, all it can do is make a noise. Same goes for cctv. You MIGHT have an image of the criminal, but by then, the damage is done and they could also steal the cameras and recording equipment.
> The Police will respond to reports of break ins, but unless the villians are intent on clearing the house of everything, by the time they arrive, the crooks are long gone. It is a very rare event that police can catch a house thief during the crime....anywhere in the world.
> ...


I had hoped to avoid the bars on the windows.
I'm looking for a place in the countryside so there will be no neighbors to rely on either.
And I'm more of a cat person, so no dogs either 

cctv footage would be stored on a off-site server, but as you said that won't be possible without a landline of some sort.
The same goes for the alarm (besides the noise I guess nobody cares about).

And as I wrote, some areas are more at risk than others.


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## virgil (May 3, 2012)

Twain said:


> I had hoped to avoid the bars on the windows.
> I'm looking for a place in the countryside so there will be no neighbors to rely on either.
> And I'm more of a cat person, so no dogs either
> 
> ...


How's about something like ... 

THIS: Guard Dog Intruder Alarm: Amazon.co.uk: Kitchen & Home


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## Twain (May 24, 2009)

virgil said:


> How's about something like ...
> 
> THIS: Guard Dog Intruder Alarm: Amazon.co.uk: Kitchen & Home


Hehe


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

Twain said:


> I had hoped to avoid the bars on the windows.
> I'm looking for a place in the countryside so there will be no neighbors to rely on either.
> And I'm more of a cat person, so no dogs either
> 
> ...


security bars are MUST HAVE, unless you want to advertize the fact the house is owned by an expat.


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## Twain (May 24, 2009)

dunmovin said:


> security bars are MUST HAVE, unless you want to advertize the fact the house is owned by an expat.


Hm, good point I guess.

So, no one lives in modern style villas? Or do they also use bars in front of the windows? I just feel like living in a prison with them in front of the windows.


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

Twain said:


> Hm, good point I guess.
> 
> So, no one lives in modern style villas? Or do they also use bars in front of the windows? I just feel like living in a prison with them in front of the windows.



You very quickly get used to them. People do have modern style villas , but even they will have them. To be honest they are no more than a visual deterrent for casual housebreakers. It's like the mosquito screen, you need it, but after a while you don't even notice it.

Truth? if someone wants to seriously break into your house, there is little you can do to prevent it. best you can do is make it harder for them


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

I recently wrote on the Cypriot forum

_"How sad to hear of crime like this. I've not lived on Cyprus since the late 80s in Paphos and house break ins were... unheard of.

I remember pulling up outside of Aces bar one winter night (is that still there?) and locking the car, George who new me by then said "Hey Rob, we don't lock the cars in winter, only in summer when the tourists arrive"._

_Lovely island, lovely people. "_

Its sad also to think that Spain is the way it is regarding home security these days. Its not that bad in the UK for all its shortcomings.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Twain said:


> c
> The same goes for the alarm (besides the noise I guess nobody cares about).
> 
> .


Unfortunately they do . Spanish alarm systems , whether for home, business, car are not legally allowed to emit ear-piercing 120 decibel + sound.  Most house alarm systems are connected to a central monitoring system & if the alarm is activated they just emit a 'twittering' sound. 
Most foreigners ignore the rules & fit ear -splitting alarms.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Twain said:


> Hm, good point I guess.
> 
> So, no one lives in modern style villas? Or do they also use bars in front of the windows? I just feel like living in a prison with them in front of the windows.


Yes, I guess you could call our villa 'modern', it's twenty or so years old.
Yes, it has rejas at all windows.

But no, no way do I feel 'like a prisoner'. The windows are large, the house is spacious and airy, full of light. You don't notice the bars.

Having been robbed once I now do all I can to prevent it happening again.


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## virgil (May 3, 2012)

I've just had a thought (I had one last week as well) ... if y'all lived in an olde cottage (like moi) and had leaded windows or even (perish the thought) Georgian inserts, 
you wouldn't see em as bars would you, so, at the end of the day, in the final analysis (so on and so forth) it's all in the ed really


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Twain said:


> Hm, good point I guess.
> 
> So, no one lives in modern style villas? Or do they also use bars in front of the windows? I just feel like living in a prison with them in front of the windows.


I live on the outside of a modern urb - we have rejas at the ground floor windows, some neighbours also have them on the upper floor windows & doors to the upper terraces

I wish we did - if you want to sleep with the windows & doors open you feel more secure with bars at the doors & windows

you get used to them - windows don't look 'finished' to me now, without them!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

virgil said:


> I've just had a thought (I had one last week as well) ... if y'all lived in an olde cottage (like moi) and had leaded windows or even (perish the thought) Georgian inserts,
> you wouldn't see em as bars would you, so, at the end of the day, in the final analysis (so on and so forth) it's all in the ed really


Quite

Most houses in Spain have rejas, unless they belong to immigrants who build in an imitation of a Home Counties bungalow...I know someone who lives in such a property, in a very expensive development...it even has rose-bush planted borders and lawn...an Enhglish garden transplanted to Spain.

Our house is built in Spanish style, around a terrace with pool, a kind of L shape. We have a large double corner plot and this area is very quiet. It's quite vulnerable to thieves and if I could I would have snares and traps all over the garden which were animal proof but could be set to trap uninvited humans at night.

I lived in an olde-worlde cottage in the UK and whilst the properties around us were often burgled, ours wasn't.

Could have had something to do with the cfact that I had taught most of the thieves and scumbags in our little town and had a 'Reputation' for not appreciating intrusions into my privacy.

Once, when my bike was stolen from my workplace, I demanded its swift return ....and lo and behold, it was back in its place by lunchtime.


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## GUAPACHICA (Jun 30, 2012)

Hi, 
my concern, in fact one of my pre-ocupations here in Spain, if I'm absolutely honest - is how would a resident escape in case of fire..? I appreciate that houses are likely to have at least 2 external doors, but where I live, all ground floor flats - and many on higher floors - have all of their windows barred, yet often there is just one external door!

I used to think, foolishly, that each 'set' of bars must be mounted, all together, as if on a 'gate', which could be unlocked from inside, and then swung out, enabling those inside to escape, if necessary - now I know better!

The reality is that in the case of many UK household fires, residents have, indeed, been rescued from window sills, usually when smoke, flames, or both, have made escape through the doors impossible! I've raised this issue with Spanish friends - none of them had considered it, before! But my former brother-in-law was a British fire officer, and he gave me lots of very good advice on fire- safety, especially useful when staying in temporary accommodation, whether staying with friends, on holiday or on professional courses for work purposes.

Maybe I'm now a bit paranoid, as a result...! (After all, I do now always carry a small torch in my bag - and I do, religiously, check the escape route by walking it through , whenever I check into a pension or hotel! I always take note of the exits in live music venues, too - though sometimes there is only one..!).

My own rented flat is not on the ground floor and has no bars - but I always close the 'persiana' metal blinds and shut the windows at night and when I'm away from home. It would be virtually impossible for anyone to climb up to my balconies from the street - or to drop down from the roof terrace, so I don't need bars. Not much crime in this area, fortunately. 


GC


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

GUAPACHICA said:


> Hi,
> my concern, in fact one of my pre-ocupations here in Spain, if I'm absolutely honest - is how would a resident escape in case of fire..? I appreciate that houses are likely to have at least 2 external doors, but where I live, all ground floor flats - and many on higher floors - have all of their windows barred, yet often there is just one external door!
> 
> I used to think, foolishly, that each 'set' of bars must be mounted, all together, as if on a 'gate', which could be unlocked from inside, and then swung out, enabling those inside to escape, if necessary - now I know better!
> ...


yes, that has worried me

the upper floor rejas on the houses here are indeed like 'gates', lockable from the inside - so they would slow a burglar down, or make them pick the unprotected house next door, but not stop them if they were determnined - but tbh nothing would really, would it?

I always pull the persianas down when we go out - & often at night while leaving the windows open for air

I worry more about electric persianas - I turned down a property once because of them - if there was a fire & they were closed & the electicity was out, you'd stand no chance


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

*Fire*

The construction of many Spanish properties means that there is very little to burn. Walls, floors and celiings are usually made of concrete or some other non combustible material. Wiring is contained within the walls. The biggest issue is smoke inhalation and since most materials these days produce 'safe' smoke it's only a case of avoiding inhalation in the worst cases.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Twain said:


> Hm, good point I guess.
> 
> So, no one lives in modern style villas? Or do they also use bars in front of the windows? I just feel like living in a prison with them in front of the windows.


I felt the same but when you have lived in a South American country, you tend to think differently. Since our house is right on the "street" (it's not much more than an alley wide enough for one car, so it is more a pedestrian throughway) we have a form of "net curtain" (really pierced fabric) that largely prevents people peeping and seeing all the "treasures" that we have, while still allowing light in and we can see them. We have removed the _postigos_ because they are a nuisance to close at night when there is a settee under the window so we have a simple roller blind.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Our house has marble throughout...floors, staircases, part of bathroom walls. Very little combustible material. We also have two wide upstairs balconies and it's possible to climb down to safety from each - although I'd probably end up with broken bones as I am less agile and heavier than OH.

Our alarm system also has a smoke alarm and will alert los bomberos.

Tbh I hadn't thought of fire risk here, whereas in the UK our Olde-Worlde cottage contained so much wood....beams, panelled walls...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

I like my rejas. They are quite decorative, little birds perch on them to do their singing practice, and we can leave the windows open at night knowing nobody can squeeze in.


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

Calas felices said:


> The construction of many Spanish properties means that there is very little to burn. Walls, floors and celiings are usually made of concrete or some other non combustible material. Wiring is contained within the walls. The biggest issue is smoke inhalation and since most materials these days produce 'safe' smoke it's only a case of avoiding inhalation in the worst cases.


Speaking as an ex Fire Officer there is no such thing as Safe smoke, unfortunately. Although most soft furnishings and the foam fillings are now flame retardent, when involved in a conflagration they indeed issue lots of exceedingly poisonous substances. Most plastics, Tv,s Kitchen equipment UPVC etc. also give off poisonous gas When they burn.

At the very least the atmosphere in a fire situation would not contain enough oxygen to sustain life, the fire would be consuming it. There will however be a layer of breathable air very close to the floor.

Your only friend in a fire situation where you have no alternative means of escape is time. Modern smoke detectors are cheap to buy and install and if positioned correctly will activate within a minute of any fire starting. You will then have around 4 minutes to get out before any fire is large enough to prevent you from doing so.

This means it is very important for you to have an escape plan. Keep keys where they can be found easily in the dark. Do not have anything in the way of your escape route that would impede an immediate evacuation. Rouse the household quickly and flee immediately, do not stop for belongings, embarassment at being naked is preferable to not escaping at all.

Apart from dodgy wiring, fires rarely start without carelessness. Emply ash trays outside before retiring, unplug the TV from the wall socket, turn off all the appliances in the kitchen, check around open fires and put up a sparkguard before retiring. All simple precautions that take only a few moments but will save you the grief of an unwanted fire.

Sorry for the lecture but!!!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

stevesainty said:


> Speaking as an ex Fire Officer there is no such thing as Safe smoke, unfortunately. Although most soft furnishings and the foam fillings are now flame retardent, when involved in a conflagration they indeed issue lots of exceedingly poisonous substances. Most plastics, Tv,s Kitchen equipment UPVC etc. also give off poisonous gas When they burn.
> 
> At the very least the atmosphere in a fire situation would not contain enough oxygen to sustain life, the fire would be consuming it. There will however be a layer of breathable air very close to the floor.
> 
> ...


Thankyou for that very useful information, Steve.
When I was at TUC I met several FBU members, male and female. Great people, courageous and willing to risk their lives for strangers...

RESPECT!!!!!!!!


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## Twain (May 24, 2009)

Thanks to everyone for the great feedback.

It will probably be a slightly different reality for me to move to Spain.
I come from the least criminal region in Norway.
And throughout 2011 there was in the whole country only 16,900 burglaries in homes.
And the trend is downward, a half since the 90's.

Regarding the sound of the burglar alarms, I thought that the thieves might not care about the sound, but broke in anyway. Not that the sound exceeded certain values.

When I referred to modern villa, I thought of those being built nowadays and that does not necessarily look like traditional Spanish homes. In the pictures non has bars.
But state that the windows are non breakable of some sort (I don't know much about it).

I'll just take it in the further considerations when I'm looking for ideas for a house.
And also think about safety rather than just design and practical issues.

And yes, a fire does scare me too when I'm thinking of the window bars.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Twain said:


> Thanks to everyone for the great feedback.
> 
> It will probably be a slightly different reality for me to move to Spain.
> I come from the least criminal region in Norway.
> ...


non breakable windows are all very well............... but most of the year you have them wide open anyway...........

& there were 0.0034 break-ins per capita in Norway in 2011

but only about 0.0017 per capita in Spain in 2009


I wouldn't worry if I were you


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## Twain (May 24, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> non breakable windows are all very well............... but most of the year you have them wide open anyway...........
> 
> & there were 0.0034 break-ins per capita in Norway in 2011
> 
> ...


You just hear so much about it in Spain.
Here I live, break-ins are not heard of, I think it's 10 years since last time I read about one.

And I guess you're right - I shouldn't worry too much.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Twain said:


> You just hear so much about it in Spain.
> Here I live, break-ins are not heard of, I think it's 10 years since last time I read about one.
> 
> And I guess you're right - I shouldn't worry too much.


I don't hear of them very much

a friend of mine _was _broken into a few weeks ago - but in 9 years here that's the first personal contact I've have with anyone who has been burgled


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## Twain (May 24, 2009)

During the year I lived in the Murcia region, I felt that at least twice a month someone posted on the forum for the resort about break-ins in the worst periods of the year.

In 2005 (when I stayed in Torrox) I was told that it was worse west of Malaga.

So I guess it all depends on where you live.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Twain said:


> During the year I lived in the Murcia region, I felt that at least twice a month someone posted on the forum for the resort about break-ins in the worst periods of the year.
> 
> In 2005 (when I stayed in Torrox) I was told that it was worse west of Malaga.
> 
> So I guess it all depends on where you live.


To some extent yes, it depends on where you live. My house is large and surrounded by other large houses in an area that is middle-class Spanish. I guess it is assumed that these houses are inhabited by wealthy people and indeed some are but others aren't. My neighbours aren't wealthy. I'm not wealthy.
But break-ins have been increasing over the past year to the point where nearly every house including ours has been burgled. Othe forms of crime have increased too...muggings and bag-snatching for example.

All you can do is make it as difficult as possible for the would-be thief. We have multiple locks on the doors, rejas and persilianas, an alarm system and a very large and protective dog, a Rhodesian Ridgeback who I suspect is our best security.

Our break-in occurred when we were walking him and we stupidly failed to lock up and set the alarm. We'd never bothered with security before and often slept with the garden door open all night. The thieves had obviously been watching the house for some time and knew we took the dog out around nine in the evening, usually for an hour but that time we were out for thirty minutes.

So now we'll vary our routine. Apart from hiring a personal armed security guard there's not much else you can do although I note that most people around here have upgraded their security systems with video and direct link to the police as well as the alarm security office.

I'm certainly not going to spoil my life in Spain by worryinmg about crime. As the saying goes, Fear of crime is more prevalent than crime itself.


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## virgil (May 3, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> Quite
> 
> Most houses in Spain have rejas, unless they belong to immigrants who build in an imitation of a Home Counties bungalow...I know someone who lives in such a property, in a very expensive development...it even has rose-bush planted borders and lawn...an Enhglish garden transplanted to Spain.
> 
> ...


I try to use psychology and make it look-like I'm in, when I'm out.

I'll leave Radio 4 on at a decent volume, and I'll also leave the under-unit low wattage lights on in the kitchen that can be seen from outside.

I'll even do strange (to some) things like leave a step ladder erected near the front door with a cup on the top to look as if I'm around 

Crazy? - well, this 200 year olde cottage is in a remote moorland setting with only one neighb, a 73 year young Cornish farmers wife.

Believe it or nay, I've even gone out walking for an hour and left the top part of the stable (type) door open (with the ladder of course!)

Funny thing this psycho-ology


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## GUAPACHICA (Jun 30, 2012)

stevesainty said:


> This means it is very important for you to have an escape plan. Keep keys where they can be found easily in the dark. Do not have anything in the way of your escape route that would impede an immediate evacuation. Rouse the household quickly and flee immediately, do not stop for belongings, embarassment at being naked is preferable to not escaping at all.
> 
> Apart from dodgy wiring, fires rarely start without carelessness. Emply ash trays outside before retiring, unplug the TV from the wall socket, turn off all the appliances in the kitchen, check around open fires and put up a sparkguard before retiring. All simple precautions that take only a few moments but will save you the grief of an unwanted fire.
> 
> Sorry for the lecture but!!!


Thank you very much for this post! My Spanish friends are highly amused that I actually have a small torch looped onto each door handle in my flat..! I also have several traveller's smoke alarms sited around my flat - bought in the UK (I rent this place, so cannot fix any to ceilings). Shops here don't stock them. 

Of course, we all hope we'll never be subjected to the horror of a night-time house fire, but in past years I spent many evenings with my ex husband's family -they lived adjacent to the fire station - and, as you'll know, personally, those fire crews were called out several times each week to deal with fires and other similar dangers of all kinds, so not such uncommon occurrences! 

As an example, only last year, my 84 year old mother and 40 other residents in a Surrey block of retirement flats were incredibly lucky to escape, when their entire building was gutted by fire, during the night, despite all fire safety equipment being in working order! Tragically, one poor elderly lady did lose her life! No- one had time to collect anything prior to escaping - it all began with a smoking TV set in one of 42 separate flats!
Thanks to the incredible bravery of the 7 fire crews and local Police Officers the death toll was not far higher - one resident was carried, in her wheelchair, by two firemen down 3 flights of stairs, whilst the whole roof was burning! If through this forum - and these posts, we're all reminded to ensure our homes are as safe as is humanly possible for our families and pets, this thread will have proved incredibly worthwhile! 

So, given your own professional expertise, could I ask if you would please give us some additional advice on an escape plan for household pets? Again, the prevalence of fixed window bars in so many Spanish properties is a major problem, surely? 
I ask because when I lived with large dogs in England, I was always worried as to how they might escape with us, if necessary, via an upstairs window - of course, Spanish fire crews here arrive with extending platforms which must, I assume, be much safer for civilians their fire crew rescuers and any pets than the old style ladders! 
In England, I knew that no fireman could be expected to attempt carrying my adult male German Shepherd down those flimsy narrow rungs, perhaps swaying in a strong wind - and my dog would certainly not have submitted quietly to such treatment, however lifesaving...! 
I used to think I'd have to muzzle him, bundle him up into a king-sized zipped quilt cover, twist the ends and lower him over the side of the sill - to be dropped gently onto a waiting mattress...!

So, what would be the more professional approach, please..?
Your advice would be much appreciated!

GC


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## stevesainty (Jan 7, 2011)

What you have to grasp Guapachica is that the fear of fire is a primeval response. It overrides all normal thought patterns. The thing to escape is the fire. 

Parents will exit a building knowing full well that their children are still in there, they will then try and re-enter to rescue them but their own survival instincts prevented them from rescuing them in the first place.

This survival instinct is even more deep rooted in animals. If there is a way out then animals will find it.

The important thing to get across is that serious house fires are very rare and are mostly preventable.

Carry out the simple steps that I outlined earlier and the likelihood of a fire occurring will be minimised. 

If though, you are trapped by fire with no means of escape there are still steps you can take.

A normal door will hold fire back for twenty minutes, if there is a door to the stairs also then that will give you a minimum of 40 minutes.

Put a wet towel at the base of the door, this will keep out smoke and fumes.

If you have to escape from a first floor window then manaeouvering yourself to dangle from the windowsill by your fingertips will reduce the drop by around 8 feet.

If you throw out a mattress first this will help to cushion your fall

If you have a window without an opening big enough to escape from then you will have to break it. Use a hammer or a chair in the corners, the glass will break more easily without flexing.

In Spain if you have Rejas then they are probably made of mild steel and if necessary can be cut through with a hacksaw; especially if you are determined.
You would of course need to keep said hacksaw in you wardrobe, along with the hammer for the window.

If you take your mobile to bed with you and keep your charger in the bedroom you will always have the means to summon help.

All these measures are extreme and probably not necessary but if it helps you sleep at night, they are not very onerous. Do your checks, have a plan, and don't worry too much. How many people do you know who have had a serious fire?


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## GUAPACHICA (Jun 30, 2012)

> All these measures are extreme and probably not necessary but if it helps you sleep at night, they are not very onerous. Do your checks, have a plan, and don't worry too much. How many people do you know who have had a serious fire?


Thank you very much again - these measures don't seem extreme to me at all, just those worth taking time to put into effect! My opinion after living here in Spain for several years is that we'd be wise to be well- prepared (not obsessed!) because there doesn't seem to be much awareness of fire or other safety issues here, generally. 

Last week, I attended a concert in a famous historical building. We, the audience collected our own plastic chairs and placed them in rows, to accommodate everyone who'd paid. There were hundreds present. Once we were all seated, the tightly packed rows were some 50 chairs long - no-one could move until the concert finished! Had there been any kind of safety incident (the huge stage was immediately in front of us) requiring evacuation, there would have been panic and chaos! In the UK, as you'll know, laws on public safety at live performances are far more stringent - rightly so, IMO!

I love the relaxed, informal nature of Spanish culture - but as someone who attends many live music events here, I wish the venues concerned would take their'public safety' responsibilities more carefully, that's all...


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