# First Timer - Considering the Move



## jk69 (Apr 6, 2009)

Hi All. New guy so be gentle. I am a Professional, married, with young family. I am a director in my own surveying practice, practicing for around 15 years now. I have some family in canada (aunts, cousins etc) but have never been (trying to sort that one out..)

I hear a lot about the quality of life issues on this forum and through other people and wonder is the grass really any greener? A number of issues are firmly distrurbing about the uk at present as is widely known, crime, social breakdown, respect, loss of values etc etc. 

I want to know if it's really any different in canada? I know you get idiots in all corners of the world, but on 'balance' is it any better?.

We have flirted with the idea of selling up and moving on to try something new. As a Construction Professional I would hope to be able to apply my wide skills to the canadian market. I run my own business which is doing fine thank you very much, so i am not blaming the recession, I actually think the Uk started to crack a number of years ago. I also suspect i would not be moving to to a similar level of income, but it's not just about money and materials, although i do work very hard and have built a business for 5 years with its own client base and workload and i would take the same attitude and effort with me.

We enjoy socialising and dont get enough time to do it, the work balance issue has gone out of control in the UK, we also enjoy the outdoors and yes we would actually look forward to real winters and snow..!

I want to know how any others in a similar position have got on?, any relevant experiences, regrets even? Does canada even need people like us?

I have my eyes open, I know there is no such thing as a panacea for life, but i am keen to know about real life experiences and issues to judge 'on balance' whether such a move is worthwhile considering. Things like family life, time, work/life attitudes, crime, values and so on and yes of course, work, economy, prospects, education and so on.

Look forward to some of your opinions where possible.


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## cocoalfie (Apr 6, 2009)

I am a Canadian and have been living in the UK for nearly 19years and guess what?? I AM GOING BACK!!!! I am in the process of relocating myself and my family to Calgary. I think life is much easier there and the work/family balance is better. Beware of the winters as it is COLD and LONG unless you plan on moving to Vancouver where the weather is pretty much the same as UK in the winter. I don't think that the grass is greener - just different!! THere will be things that are cheaper and other things that aren't. It is definitely a different way of life than here in the UK but not necessarily better. FOr one thing they don't have the traditional British Pubs. THis is one thing I will certainly miss. Lots of people have tried copying the ENglish style pub - but it just doesn't marry up. I think the simple reason is the buildings just aren't old enough. Anyway, you might want to consider a good long holiday first to see how you like Canada. Hope this helps.


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## jk69 (Apr 6, 2009)

Cocoalfie, many thanks for your comments, most appreciated. A measured approach and realistic, which i like.. 'Different' can be good of course, but a trial run and holiday is a must for sure! 
Even as a scotsman, i accept that a traditional english pub could be missed..! I have been in some very good ones over the years. 
All the very best with your plans.


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

jk69 said:


> Hi All. New guy so be gentle. I am a Professional, married, with young family. I am a director in my own surveying practice, practicing for around 15 years now. I have some family in canada (aunts, cousins etc) but have never been (trying to sort that one out..)
> 
> I hear a lot about the quality of life issues on this forum and through other people and wonder is the grass really any greener? A number of issues are firmly distrurbing about the uk at present as is widely known, crime, social breakdown, respect, loss of values etc etc.
> 
> ...


The grass is not greener, just different. As a professional I imagine you would have a good quality of life in the UK. If that's true then the differences here would be a bigger house, perhaps bigger car(s) and a plethora of available outdoor activities. Many other UK ex-pats contend that worklife is easier providing more time for family. Crime is nothing like as serious as in Britain, the economy, while under pressure, is regarded as the best of the G20. Education is on a par with the UK and new immigrants state that their children are finding it easy to settle in. Prospects in any occupation are determined by one's work ethic and hard graft. 
One of the greatest complaints ex-pats have of Canada is the cold, very cold and snowy winters, except on the extreme west coast. They are long and can wear some people down. Spring, Summers and Fall, while all short (6 months in total) are usually wonderful. Being such a vast land mass it varies considerably from one coast to the other.
You state you have some family members here so that could make it easier for doing what's known as a reccie to get the lay of the land.
There is a LIST of occupations that Canada's Government considers to be in extreme demand. If yours is on the LIST then you could get here as a PR within 12 months subject to police checks, medicals etc. If not then it can take 6-7 years unless you obtain a work offer subject to a LMO created by the employer.


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## jk69 (Apr 6, 2009)

Auld Yin
You have made me smile today. Of all the various threads and comments i have seen on this forum, yours are the ones i take most from - i often wondered what your thoughts would be on my position. 
Your insights and opinions are fair and honest, even the bad bits, and that what people need to hear, although you generally seem to paint a more 'positive' picture than the UK, which i take some heart from.
Our life is quite comfortable indeed, so it is not a material issue for us, there is much more to it. As for the weather, i am from the west of scotland, so i am generally used to bad (or poor) weather. What you (and others) describe is a more defined, albeit harsh set of seasons, which quite frankly would be a god send as far as we are concerned, rather than the grey wet mess always seem to get regardless of seasons!. The outdoors is also a real attraction.
I will check the List you mention, but it seems a lot of my type of work would qualify under what seems to be called 'Construction Managers'.
We will certainly arrange a reccie as you and others suggest, that is the sensible and logical first step for sure. I am not looking for green grass, just a better balance.
Many thanks again for your comments, most appreciated.


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## Peggy (Aug 16, 2007)

jk69 said:


> Hi All. New guy so be gentle. I am a Professional, married, with young family. I am a director in my own surveying practice, practicing for around 15 years now. I have some family in canada (aunts, cousins etc) but have never been (trying to sort that one out..)
> 
> I hear a lot about the quality of life issues on this forum and through other people and wonder is the grass really any greener? A number of issues are firmly distrurbing about the uk at present as is widely known, crime, social breakdown, respect, loss of values etc etc.
> 
> ...


Hi,

Well I guess it depends on how you look at things, I have been here for over 40 years and still consider myself Scottish, now this could and probable is just me. My husband is Canadian as are all my children, but we have been seriously considering moving to the UK and are currently looking at work for us over there. 

We have lived overseas before, spent 2 years in Saudi and enjoyed it immensly, but for me SCOTLAND will always be home, never Canada. My parents came here hoping to get a better life, I am not sure that they would not have had the same type of life style had they decided to stay back home. If you have a lot of family here it might help to make the adjustment, as for crime, employment etc, I think things are really just as equal. Just a lot more larger cities in this country and a lot of influence from US. Weather is terrible unless you live in Victoria, Vancouver. 
As for the pubs, it is very different, as here they go to the bars (pubs) it seems to get drunk, not for the social outing that it seems to be back home, so I am sure that is something you would miss if you are so inclined. Come for a holiday, but remember that things always look good when you are on holiday, it's when you have to do the daily grind, work, living expenses, rent or mortgage that things take on a whole different meaning. Good Luck whatever you decide. I think we will be leaving this year sometime for good auld Scotland.


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## cocoalfie (Apr 6, 2009)

Peggy said:


> Hi,
> 
> Well I guess it depends on how you look at things, I have been here for over 40 years and still consider myself Scottish, now this could and probable is just me. My husband is Canadian as are all my children, but we have been seriously considering moving to the UK and are currently looking at work for us over there.
> 
> ...


You may have been away from the UK a tad too long (40 Years). You maybe in for a shock when you walk down the High Street in any UK town on a Saturday night. Binge drinkers are everywhere and watch out you don't step in any vomit whilst strolling down the street. If you are really lucky you might even witness a slagging match going on or even a fist fight. This is the kind of thing that is typically normal here in the UK now a days. It is a shame that you haven't really got anything particularly positive to say after living in Canada for so long. What kept you there if your so negative?


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

Peggy said:


> Hi,
> 
> Well I guess it depends on how you look at things, I have been here for over 40 years and still consider myself Scottish, now this could and probable is just me. My husband is Canadian as are all my children, but we have been seriously considering moving to the UK and are currently looking at work for us over there.
> 
> ...


I have been here 43 years and came from Scotland. Have been back many times and watched the UK rise up from the results of WWll to become an affluent nation with a goodly proportion of middle-class citizens. I then watched over the past five years its decline into a country with high crime, drunken obnoxious yobs, litter ridden streets, graffiti strewn buildings. It is grossly overcrowded, parking is a nightmare in most cities/towns. It is a wonderful place to visit, has beautiful countryside, magnificent ancient buildings and I will visit again but will be sure to avoid the distasteful parts/conditions. Would I go back to live? Absolutely, providing I can buy a GBP500,000 house in the country and spend half the year offshore in a warm, sunny climate.


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## cocoalfie (Apr 6, 2009)

Auld Yin said:


> I have been here 43 years and came from Scotland. Have been back many times and watched the UK rise up from the results of WWll to become an affluent nation with a goodly proportion of middle-class citizens. I then watched over the past five years its decline into a country with high crime, drunken obnoxious yobs, litter ridden streets, graffiti strewn buildings. It is grossly overcrowded, parking is a nightmare in most cities/towns. It is a wonderful place to visit, has beautiful countryside, magnificent ancient buildings and I will visit again but will be sure to avoid the distasteful parts/conditions. Would I go back to live? Absolutely, providing I can buy a GBP500,000 house in the country and spend half the year offshore in a warm, sunny climate.


Funnily enough I too also come from Scotland and immigrated to Canada when I was six lived there until I was 33 and moved to ENgland with my husband nearly 19 Years ago. ALthough I agree with everything you have said both about Canada and UK there is also something fundamental about the differences in people between the two countries. I don't like being critical of anyone and try very hard not to be, but the attitudes to life in general are polars apart. I miss the friendly, warming, outgoing Cannucks, as well of course, my family in Canada and quite frankly can't wait to get back. Out with the old and in with the new as they say.


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## jk69 (Apr 6, 2009)

Peggy said:


> Hi,
> 
> Well I guess it depends on how you look at things, I have been here for over 40 years and still consider myself Scottish, now this could and probable is just me. My husband is Canadian as are all my children, but we have been seriously considering moving to the UK and are currently looking at work for us over there.
> 
> ...


Cocoalfie, Auld Yin, good to hear your further thoughts, it seems my original post has turned into a bit of a debate about the good and evils of each place, which is a big part of it i suppose.
Peggy, i dont know how old you are, you have obvioulsy found something in Canada to stay so long. Like others, i would caution against thinking Scotland was in any kind of shape. I will always consider this place home like you and i would fight and die for it, but i am afraid the lunatics have taken over the asylum in recent years. I have read some posts about vancouver gangs and i'm sure there is crime in canada like most other places, but in Scotland and in particular the central belt, it seems bad. I could run off how many people have been stabbed, slashed, overdosed, mugged or murdered this weekend. I am sure this exists in canada, but not the same frequency or ratio per capita?. People are afraid of the city centres after dark, gangs are again on the increase and drugs, well you get the picture. Same as any big city? maybe? As for alchohol and diet, just remember you will be moving back to to heart attack and liver disease capital of the world. I'm afraid i dont see much socialising in pubs these days, is there any other country in the world who's parliament is trying to impose a minimum charge on booze and ban happy hours...appalling.
I still take comfort you stayed for so long even with your perceived faults of canada. Like i said originally, what is the best balance for individuals and families? If you do go home, choose your location wisely, but i wish you all the best in your choice and many thanks for your comments, its another real snapshot of canadian life.


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## Peggy (Aug 16, 2007)

cocoalfie said:


> You may have been away from the UK a tad too long (40 Years). You maybe in for a shock when you walk down the High Street in any UK town on a Saturday night. Binge drinkers are everywhere and watch out you don't step in any vomit whilst strolling down the street. If you are really lucky you might even witness a slagging match going on or even a fist fight. This is the kind of thing that is typically normal here in the UK now a days. It is a shame that you haven't really got anything particularly positive to say after living in Canada for so long. What kept you there if your so negative?


I am sure there are binge drinkers everywhere, even here in Canada. What kept me here this long, my parents have now both passed away, and my children are grown and finally living their own lives. As for a shock, I have been back to Scotland a few times in that 40 years and have friends who live very comfortable and happy there. My question is why do have nothing positive to say about Scotland? I had no choice in coming to Canada, as this was my parents decision, not mine. I do have many happy memories of Canada, but it is not and never will be my home.


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## Peggy (Aug 16, 2007)

jk69 said:


> Cocoalfie, Auld Yin, good to hear your further thoughts, it seems my original post has turned into a bit of a debate about the good and evils of each place, which is a big part of it i suppose.
> Peggy, i dont know how old you are, you have obvioulsy found something in Canada to stay so long. Like others, i would caution against thinking Scotland was in any kind of shape. I will always consider this place home like you and i would fight and die for it, but i am afraid the lunatics have taken over the asylum in recent years. I have read some posts about vancouver gangs and i'm sure there is crime in canada like most other places, but in Scotland and in particular the central belt, it seems bad. I could run off how many people have been stabbed, slashed, overdosed, mugged or murdered this weekend. I am sure this exists in canada, but not the same frequency or ratio per capita?. People are afraid of the city centres after dark, gangs are again on the increase and drugs, well you get the picture. Same as any big city? maybe? As for alchohol and diet, just remember you will be moving back to to heart attack and liver disease capital of the world. I'm afraid i dont see much socialising in pubs these days, is there any other country in the world who's parliament is trying to impose a minimum charge on booze and ban happy hours...appalling.
> I still take comfort you stayed for so long even with your perceived faults of canada. Like i said originally, what is the best balance for individuals and families? If you do go home, choose your location wisely, but i wish you all the best in your choice and many thanks for your comments, its another real snapshot of canadian life.


I am well aware of the problems that exist back home, and please do not think that I having nothing good to say about Canada, my children are all Canadian born and so is my husband. It is a beautiful country, but it too has many of the same problems that you mention. I still have family and many friends that live very happily in the UK, and would not trade it for the world, as you say it is how everyone of us perceive each country. Don't think that there is no poverty in this country, if you go to many of the smaller cities, not just Toronto, Vancouver, but smaller cities like Winnipeg, Regina and Saskatoon you will see despair, poverty, gang and drug wars. I have worked in health care for many years and have seen the what alchohol, poor nutrition and drugs can do to even the best of countries. 

Canada has a history of sticking its head in the sand when it comes to dealing with past history in regards to it's Aboriginal problems. It is not all bad, but it is not the land of milk and honey that was advertised in the UK papers when my parents came here. I wish you luck!!!!


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## she_v41 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Hi,*



jk69 said:


> Hi All. New guy so be gentle. I am a Professional, married, with young family. I am a director in my own surveying practice, practicing for around 15 years now. I have some family in canada (aunts, cousins etc) but have never been (trying to sort that one out..)
> 
> I hear a lot about the quality of life issues on this forum and through other people and wonder is the grass really any greener? A number of issues are firmly distrurbing about the uk at present as is widely known, crime, social breakdown, respect, loss of values etc etc.
> 
> ...


Hi,


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Thanks


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## jk69 (Apr 6, 2009)

Peggy said:


> I am well aware of the problems that exist back home, and please do not think that I having nothing good to say about Canada, my children are all Canadian born and so is my husband. It is a beautiful country, but it too has many of the same problems that you mention. I still have family and many friends that live very happily in the UK, and would not trade it for the world, as you say it is how everyone of us perceive each country. Don't think that there is no poverty in this country, if you go to many of the smaller cities, not just Toronto, Vancouver, but smaller cities like Winnipeg, Regina and Saskatoon you will see despair, poverty, gang and drug wars. I have worked in health care for many years and have seen the what alchohol, poor nutrition and drugs can do to even the best of countries.
> 
> Canada has a history of sticking its head in the sand when it comes to dealing with past history in regards to it's Aboriginal problems. It is not all bad, but it is not the land of milk and honey that was advertised in the UK papers when my parents came here. I wish you luck!!!!


Peggy, thanks again for the insight, good to get the history, good and bad. I appreciate your candid comments. I am long enough in the tooth to know that these types of problems exist in most developed parts of the globe of course.
I agree with you, it is about perception. Maybe we have both had enough of what we've already had for a long time and maybe a change is good enough. You seem to be pretty fair in telling me it 'how it is', so if you have had many of the following recently then we really are on a 'par' - 10yr old boys charged with attempted murder, 14yr old boys shooting 11 yr olds, babies and toddlers under 2 being abused, killed, neglected and starved (several) due to crazed or deranged parents and boyfriends, knife crime capital of the uk, most taxed country in europe, most expensive place in europe, 120 small businesses going bust each week, drug deaths one of the highest in europe, worst health in europe, worst dental health in europe, worst litter and beaches, the fattest kids, the list goes on... if you would like i could post most of the 'official' statistics, it would scare you.. Statistics tell me i am more at risk here than in New York on a bad day. Poverty, poor education, alchohol and drug abuse have ruined not just this, but the next generation. Trust me, there are real issues here. Crime pays, its a fact in the UK now, its big business and if you get caught? well.... you get lots of free counselling, a holiday and a free pair of trainers, and best of all, its your tax that pays for it all.
If you are moving back to the western isles, northern scotland or some lucky pockets in the north east you might be ok, otherwise, best of luck. If the 'milk and honey' really resembles this, then you have me.... we are all doomed.


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## Peggy (Aug 16, 2007)

jk69 said:


> Peggy, thanks again for the insight, good to get the history, good and bad. I appreciate your candid comments. I am long enough in the tooth to know that these types of problems exist in most developed parts of the globe of course.
> I agree with you, it is about perception. Maybe we have both had enough of what we've already had for a long time and maybe a change is good enough. You seem to be pretty fair in telling me it 'how it is', so if you have had many of the following recently then we really are on a 'par' - 10yr old boys charged with attempted murder, 14yr old boys shooting 11 yr olds, babies and toddlers under 2 being abused, killed, neglected and starved (several) due to crazed or deranged parents and boyfriends, knife crime capital of the uk, most taxed country in europe, most expensive place in europe, 120 small businesses going bust each week, drug deaths one of the highest in europe, worst health in europe, worst dental health in europe, worst litter and beaches, the fattest kids, the list goes on... if you would like i could post most of the 'official' statistics, it would scare you.. Statistics tell me i am more at risk here than in New York on a bad day. Poverty, poor education, alchohol and drug abuse have ruined not just this, but the next generation. Trust me, there are real issues here. Crime pays, its a fact in the UK now, its big business and if you get caught? well.... you get lots of free counselling, a holiday and a free pair of trainers, and best of all, its your tax that pays for it all.
> If you are moving back to the western isles, northern scotland or some lucky pockets in the north east you might be ok, otherwise, best of luck. If the 'milk and honey' really resembles this, then you have me.... we are all doomed.


Hi Again,

Your list seems to be very close to what is going on here also. I actually can add one or two, new born babies being dumped in snow banks and wooded areas, suicide pack with 13 and 14 year old children because of sniffing glue, gasoline etc. I think you are probable correct when you say it seems that we are both fed up with what we have had for a while. I guess the same troubles are all over the world, perhaps it just seems not quite so bad here, as Canada is a very large country with less that 30 million. Yes, it is the North of Scotland that we are going back to. Again good luck in your move, I am sure you will settle very nicely here. Take care


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## Chelsea (Apr 5, 2009)

I have to say I disagree a bit with some of the posts. I have never been to the UK but I am from the States and made the move to Edmonton about 3 years ago. I find people in general to be really nice, open doors for you etc... Not something you see really even in the southern States (I'm from MS originally). But as for the family/job balance I don't agree. Compared to the life I lived in the States people are much more materialistic here. I mean, there are such holidays as 'Family Day' where people actually get a day off of work/school to spend with their families - and most actually do, but for the rest of the year I just don't see it. There is a lot of oil money here, but if you head the least bit east (SK) then you hit houses for sale for 20,000 but no work, then you come to Edmonton and you get houses for 235,000 (we recently sold our 750 sq ft, 50 year old house for this) and this is after the market dropped recently.
Jobs have begun bottoming a little in certain fields but there still are plenty of jobs out there.
As for immigration - I can't use my degree here because they don't recognize Associate's Degrees but I am skilled and married to a Canadian and it still took me a year and a half to get my work visa. Unless you have someone to sponsor you or you are on the list on cic.gc.ca and have a definite job offer you're up the creek.
Hope this helps.


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## jk69 (Apr 6, 2009)

Peggy said:


> Hi Again,
> 
> Your list seems to be very close to what is going on here also. I actually can add one or two, new born babies being dumped in snow banks and wooded areas, suicide pack with 13 and 14 year old children because of sniffing glue, gasoline etc. I think you are probable correct when you say it seems that we are both fed up with what we have had for a while. I guess the same troubles are all over the world, perhaps it just seems not quite so bad here, as Canada is a very large country with less that 30 million. Yes, it is the North of Scotland that we are going back to. Again good luck in your move, I am sure you will settle very nicely here. Take care


Peggy, ok fair point, its all relative i suppose. I think your available 'vastness' probably is an advantage. You might have all the same issues in Canada, maybe it just seems worse here when you can get to the these problems within a 10 minute car dirve!. Glad to hear your moving north, beautiful part of the world! All the best and thanks for the input. Looking forward to coming over your way soon.


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## jk69 (Apr 6, 2009)

Chelsea said:


> I have to say I disagree a bit with some of the posts. I have never been to the UK but I am from the States and made the move to Edmonton about 3 years ago. I find people in general to be really nice, open doors for you etc... Not something you see really even in the southern States (I'm from MS originally). But as for the family/job balance I don't agree. Compared to the life I lived in the States people are much more materialistic here. I mean, there are such holidays as 'Family Day' where people actually get a day off of work/school to spend with their families - and most actually do, but for the rest of the year I just don't see it. There is a lot of oil money here, but if you head the least bit east (SK) then you hit houses for sale for 20,000 but no work, then you come to Edmonton and you get houses for 235,000 (we recently sold our 750 sq ft, 50 year old house for this) and this is after the market dropped recently.
> Jobs have begun bottoming a little in certain fields but there still are plenty of jobs out there.
> As for immigration - I can't use my degree here because they don't recognize Associate's Degrees but I am skilled and married to a Canadian and it still took me a year and a half to get my work visa. Unless you have someone to sponsor you or you are on the list on cic.gc.ca and have a definite job offer you're up the creek.
> Hope this helps.


Chelsea, thanks for your comments. I suppose it boils down to getting an offer and if there is enough demand to warrant someone sponsoring your move etc. I must admit, the tone in most of the posts/threads seems to be that it can be difficult to get work approved visas, as you say, even for you, married to a canadian, professional etc. As for lifestyle, I guess there are problems in all countries, but i still think canada seems to have an advantage in lifestyle terms, its sheer size, the outdoors, general quality of education and family values, but i suppose its horses for courses. Still, i look forward to my reccie and if my opinions change after that, you will all be the first to know...!! Might even come back with a job offer....who knows?!...All the best.


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## Chelsea (Apr 5, 2009)

My personal opinion: Canada is awesome. 
- The healthcare is great (I'm from the States and worked in healthcare there). 
- We live in Devon, just south of Edmonton, there's this gorgeous river valley that runs right through our town & the entire city.
- Fall, Spring, & Summer are all gorgeous - even though all three are outweighed by Winter.
- People are nicer than what I'm used to - but different somehow. But, again, I'm from the States.
- For those that have families (no kids for us) this is a very very family oriented place, it all depends on the family as to whether they take advantage of that or not. 
For Immigration purposes I would say try to get a job with a bigger company that does on a regular basis hire foreigners. They have experience with it all and they can help you with whatever paperwork you need to do yourself. Make copies of EVERYTHING. Check with the CIC website, they do have a 'skilled labor' list.
I was working on my Immigration for over 2 years so if you have any questions at all feel free to ask me. Cic sent me the wrong papers a few times etc... so not only have I filled out MY immigration papers (which was a book) but also a few things I didn't need. I got pretty familiar with it.


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

but if you head the least bit east (SK) then you hit houses for sale for 20,000

Firstly I agree with your subsequent post about Canada being awesome but I'm prejudiced, having been here for 43 years. Your comment about Saskatchewan however can and will be taken out of context. At present SK has probably the most booming economy in the country and is actually promoting job fairs around the country. There is now a net growth in population after many years of losses. Saskatchewaners are returning home because of the better times there. There are, I'm sure houses for sale on the desolate prairies for $20,000 but in Saskatoon/Regina and other large cities/towns house prices are much higher such as in the $200,000+ range.


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## Chelsea (Apr 5, 2009)

Oh, I didn't mean the ENTIRE province of SK, but, as you said, there are some areas in SK that are really really cheap. You can find fairly cheap stuff in some areas of Alberta as well. It just depends on what area you go to. But, as a whole, I would say that the only areas that are that cheap don't have much for work surrounding them because they are farther out.


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## Raymapleleaf (Nov 1, 2008)

Hi,
I WOULD JUST LIKE TO PUT MY TWO PENNYS WORTH TO THE DEBATE.
I am 44 years of age, it may seem old to some, but in the last few years we decided to look at our life in a different way, we knew that if we carried on working hard in England you are just a cash-cow for the government. We feel you have one life and change is good, we have been to Canada three times to check it out and the difference is miles apart with better morals;attuides to life;quality of life; and a country that values highly skilled people.
England where I was born and breed does not value hardworking people.
I am pleased to say that after three years of waiting Canada wants me and my family.
We are hoping to be in Calgary by October 09...


I wish you all the best and hope you make the right choice


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## jk69 (Apr 6, 2009)

Raymapleleaf said:


> Hi,
> I WOULD JUST LIKE TO PUT MY TWO PENNYS WORTH TO THE DEBATE.
> I am 44 years of age, it may seem old to some, but in the last few years we decided to look at our life in a different way, we knew that if we carried on working hard in England you are just a cash-cow for the government. We feel you have one life and change is good, we have been to Canada three times to check it out and the difference is miles apart with better morals;attuides to life;quality of life; and a country that values highly skilled people.
> England where I was born and breed does not value hardworking people.
> ...


Raymapleleaf
Thanks for your comments, very positive and, not surprisingly, I completely sympathise with your thoughts on the UK and the government. Hard work is not valued anymore in the UK, too many people just 'expect' and 'demand' with no thought for those who provide it. Good to hear from someone of a similar age (and no thats not too old...!) who has actually been a few times and is making the move. Good for you, hope it all goes well. Keep us posted on your move.


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## Raymapleleaf (Nov 1, 2008)

*your holiday to canada*



jk69 said:


> Raymapleleaf
> Thanks for your comments, very positive and, not surprisingly, I completely sympathise with your thoughts on the UK and the government. Hard work is not valued anymore in the UK, too many people just 'expect' and 'demand' with no thought for those who provide it. Good to hear from someone of a similar age (and no thats not too old...!) who has actually been a few times and is making the move. Good for you, hope it all goes well. Keep us posted on your move.


hi again 
where are you going to look at you need to see a wide area to make your minds up and the next thing is to think about getting your papers in or you will be waiting a long time to get to canada we went the first time then put our papers in 2 .5 years to get to where we are now ?
regards 
ray


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## jk69 (Apr 6, 2009)

Raymapleleaf said:


> hi again
> where are you going to look at you need to see a wide area to make your minds up and the next thing is to think about getting your papers in or you will be waiting a long time to get to canada we went the first time then put our papers in 2 .5 years to get to where we are now ?
> regards
> ray


Ray
Hi. Initially we would look at east coast. Family connections in and around Toronto or GTA as it seems to be called now. Its so vast it is difficult to get a 'big picture' in a couple of weeks i suppose. Did you receive any job offers first or did you just submit papers and prepare for the long wait?
Thanks Again.


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## Raymapleleaf (Nov 1, 2008)

*moving to canada*



jk69 said:


> Ray
> Hi. Initially we would look at east coast. Family connections in and around Toronto or GTA as it seems to be called now. Its so vast it is difficult to get a 'big picture' in a couple of weeks i suppose. Did you receive any job offers first or did you just submit papers and prepare for the long wait?
> Thanks Again.


hi JK

I put my papers and done the long wait because if can you get a job from the u.k you are locked to that company and i heard the money is lower but more important they treat you as they want because if you leave you have a big problem staying in canada and i have been a chef for a long time so know what it could me like 
We want a big change to our lives it is to easy just to have the same life in canada as we have here , so we want to run a small dog hotel and be part of 
community and maybe a few ski chalets on our land this i could not do in london
You should not rule out Alberta because you run a business the tax there is only 3% and 10% larger companys which is why most companys in canada have their
second head office there
regards ray


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## laddo (Apr 20, 2009)

jk69 said:


> Cocoalfie, Auld Yin, good to hear your further thoughts, it seems my original post has turned into a bit of a debate about the good and evils of each place, which is a big part of it i suppose.
> Peggy, i dont know how old you are, you have obvioulsy found something in Canada to stay so long. Like others, i would caution against thinking Scotland was in any kind of shape. I will always consider this place home like you and i would fight and die for it, but i am afraid the lunatics have taken over the asylum in recent years. I have read some posts about vancouver gangs and i'm sure there is crime in canada like most other places, but in Scotland and in particular the central belt, it seems bad. I could run off how many people have been stabbed, slashed, overdosed, mugged or murdered this weekend. I am sure this exists in canada, but not the same frequency or ratio per capita?. People are afraid of the city centres after dark, gangs are again on the increase and drugs, well you get the picture. Same as any big city? maybe? As for alchohol and diet, just remember you will be moving back to to heart attack and liver disease capital of the world. I'm afraid i dont see much socialising in pubs these days, is there any other country in the world who's parliament is trying to impose a minimum charge on booze and ban happy hours...appalling.
> I still take comfort you stayed for so long even with your perceived faults of canada. Like i said originally, what is the best balance for individuals and families? If you do go home, choose your location wisely, but i wish you all the best in your choice and many thanks for your comments, its another real snapshot of canadian life.



Hi jk69,

Im answer to your crime questions - Adults prosecuted (per capita) by country

Makes good reading with a few surprises!!


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## laddo (Apr 20, 2009)

jk69 said:


> Raymapleleaf
> Thanks for your comments, very positive and, not surprisingly, I completely sympathise with your thoughts on the UK and the government. Hard work is not valued anymore in the UK, too many people just 'expect' and 'demand' with no thought for those who provide it. Good to hear from someone of a similar age (and no thats not too old...!) who has actually been a few times and is making the move. Good for you, hope it all goes well. Keep us posted on your move.


You should really read up on North American work ethics!

I spoke to one guy who was proud that he used none of his vacation allowance in 12 months.


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## jk69 (Apr 6, 2009)

Hi Laddo
Sadly, the poor use of holiday entitlement is one which I could compete with easily!!. Having worked my way up the corporate ladder and run my own practice for the last 5 years i have scored zero and close to zero on the use of time off on more than a few occassions, much to the family's disgust (!), so any move away from that position will work for me !! I am more interested in the wider social benefits, lifestyle quality and so on. 
I could work at 50% and still compete with any madness Canada has to offer. Running a business in the UK is hard work. Non stop. Constant, full throttle, 24 hrs a day, constant stress, constantly on call and demand and the beurocracy attached to business in the UK has gone completely insane. And as you may well know, the word 'profit' is becoming a bad word in the UK...!
As i understand it, Canadians work just as hard as everybody else and Canada may well have less holidays as a rule, yet it seems they have control of the balance?. They will stop work at a certain time, go do things and take a more 'work to live' approach than 'live to work'?
Any Further thoughts welcome !!


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## laddo (Apr 20, 2009)

jk69 said:


> Hi Laddo
> Sadly, the poor use of holiday entitlement is one which I could compete with easily!!. Having worked my way up the corporate ladder and run my own practice for the last 5 years i have scored zero and close to zero on the use of time off on more than a few occassions, much to the family's disgust (!), so any move away from that position will work for me !! I am more interested in the wider social benefits, lifestyle quality and so on.
> I could work at 50% and still compete with any madness Canada has to offer. Running a business in the UK is hard work. Non stop. Constant, full throttle, 24 hrs a day, constant stress, constantly on call and demand and the beurocracy attached to business in the UK has gone completely insane. And as you may well know, the word 'profit' is becoming a bad word in the UK...!
> As i understand it, Canadians work just as hard as everybody else and Canada may well have less holidays as a rule, yet it seems they have control of the balance?. They will stop work at a certain time, go do things and take a more 'work to live' approach than 'live to work'?
> Any Further thoughts welcome !!


Quality of live depends on what you value. I'm a sport nut, probably averaging 20 hours per week of sport. For me a big house with a big garden is baggage that gets in the way of what I love doing most. If you love your house and garden then Canada is the place for you.
If you're stepping down and taking money with you then I'm sure you will a good standard of living. From my strictly analytical eye (trust me I've looked at every angle of life around the montreal area in order to try to convince myself that I'll enjoy the move) I can see that the wifes family and friends don't have the pressure to earn good money that we have here in the UK. The brother in law is 22/23 years old. I've not seen someone his age in the UK with the house he has, car he has, toys he has (Quad bike & boat). He worked at Canadian tire which is a bit like halfords and his girlfriend works at the beer store. 2 people with jobs like that in the UK wouldn't be able to afford to buy a house let alone have fun at the same time. That said I've met lots of Canadian with good jobs who work long hours and take very little vacation. In Canada business owners like yourself seem to have just the same commitments and work just as many hours as a UK business owner.
My thoughts are I'm going to give it a go but to burn any bridges would be crazy. I want to plan for a return in 2 years. If I don't return then fine no problem but it's not for everyone. There are people who do return to the UK and there are Canadians who move away because they're sick of the winters.


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## jk69 (Apr 6, 2009)

laddo said:


> Quality of live depends on what you value. I'm a sport nut, probably averaging 20 hours per week of sport. For me a big house with a big garden is baggage that gets in the way of what I love doing most. If you love your house and garden then Canada is the place for you.
> If you're stepping down and taking money with you then I'm sure you will a good standard of living. From my strictly analytical eye (trust me I've looked at every angle of life around the montreal area in order to try to convince myself that I'll enjoy the move) I can see that the wifes family and friends don't have the pressure to earn good money that we have here in the UK. The brother in law is 22/23 years old. I've not seen someone his age in the UK with the house he has, car he has, toys he has (Quad bike & boat). He worked at Canadian tire which is a bit like halfords and his girlfriend works at the beer store. 2 people with jobs like that in the UK wouldn't be able to afford to buy a house let alone have fun at the same time. That said I've met lots of Canadian with good jobs who work long hours and take very little vacation. In Canada business owners like yourself seem to have just the same commitments and work just as many hours as a UK business owner.
> My thoughts are I'm going to give it a go but to burn any bridges would be crazy. I want to plan for a return in 2 years. If I don't return then fine no problem but it's not for everyone. There are people who do return to the UK and there are Canadians who move away because they're sick of the winters.



Laddo
Many thanks for the response. All very good chat. It sounds like a sensible approach you are taking, give yourself an 'out' if you need it in a couple of years. We like our sport also and the outdoor possibilities of Canada definately appeal but yes we would like a big house and garden and it sounds like that's more achievable from what you are saying. All the best with your move.


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