# TIEs for British citizens from 6/7/2020



## xabiaxica

TIEs will be issued as of Monday 6/7/2020


https://www.boe.es/diario_boe/txt.p...N3_mCw0h_Z5jgDpPsg-w75eFLruP41baV0ds8wtaxvcIc

We keep our rights as residents 



> Esto implica que los nacionales del Reino Unido podrán disfrutar de sus derechos de libre circulación en España hasta el final de 2020. Por tanto, aquellos que hayan ejercido su derecho a residir o trabajar de conformidad con el Derecho de la Unión antes del final del período transitorio y que continúen haciéndolo después de ese período, tendrán exactamente los mismos derechos conforme al Acuerdo de retirada que las personas que hayan llegado antes del Brexit, encontrándose sujetos también a las mismas restricciones y limitaciones.



A few key points after a quick read. By all means add more if you read it.

Anyone not yet registered fills in EX20 & has to show healthcare provision & income under current EU citizen requirements.

Everyone who is already registered fills in EX23 & must have a valid passport, & obviously pay the fee (modelo 790, código 012). 

A photo is required, NO mention of fingerprints. NO mention of showing income or healthcare provision. It's essentially a swap.

Residents who have been registered for under 5 years will be issued with a card with 5 year validity,

Residents who have been registered for more than 5 years will be issued with a card with 10 year validity.


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## Pesky Wesky

Do you know where this takes place? Oficinas de policía nacional? I presume you have to ask for an appointment?


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## Joppa

Pesky Wesky said:


> Do you know where this takes place? Oficinas de policía nacional? I presume you have to ask for an appointment?


My cursory reading suggests you have to make two applications. First, at the provincial Alien's Office, for the issuance of residence document, then, once the decision is made to issue you one, at the national police station for the actual delivery of the residence document. It also says that the first application may be made electronically.


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## kaipa

A long document but happy to see this part:

virtud de ello, los nacionales del Reino Unido, los miembros de sus familias y cualesquiera otras personas que residan en España con arreglo a las condiciones establecidas en el Acuerdo no tendrán la obligación de solicitar una nueva condición de residente ni someterse, por tanto, a un nuevo proceso de documentación, pero tendrán el derecho a recibir, de conformidad con las previsiones de la Directiva*2004/38, un documento de residencia que expresamente recoja su condición de beneficiario del Acuerdo de retirada.

At least we dont need to make new applications which would have been a nuisance.


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## Megsmum

xabiaxica said:


> TIEs will be issued as of Monday 6/7/2020
> 
> 
> https://www.boe.es/diario_boe/txt.p...N3_mCw0h_Z5jgDpPsg-w75eFLruP41baV0ds8wtaxvcIc
> 
> We keep our rights as residents
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few key points after a quick read. By all means add more if you read it.
> 
> Anyone not yet registered fills in EX20 & has to show healthcare provision & income under current EU citizen requirements.
> 
> Everyone who is already registered fills in EX23 & must have a valid passport, & obviously pay the fee (modelo 790, código 012).
> 
> A photo is required, NO mention of fingerprints. NO mention of showing income or healthcare provision. It's essentially a swap.
> 
> Residents who have been registered for under 5 years will be issued with a card with 5 year validity,
> 
> Residents who have been registered for more than 5 years will be issued with a card with 10 year validity.


Wonder what happens after the five and ten year validity? 
I WILL eat my hat if it’s as easy as this and all areas follow this


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## Melosine

So what then, 
Those of us here with all correct paperwork and paying all our dues....we have nothing more to do and can carry on as before. 
If so it is very confusing.


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## Lynn R

kaipa said:


> A long document but happy to see this part:
> 
> virtud de ello, los nacionales del Reino Unido, los miembros de sus familias y cualesquiera otras personas que residan en España con arreglo a las condiciones establecidas en el Acuerdo no tendrán la obligación de solicitar una nueva condición de residente ni someterse, por tanto, a un nuevo proceso de documentación, pero tendrán el derecho a recibir, de conformidad con las previsiones de la Directiva*2004/38, un documento de residencia que expresamente recoja su condición de beneficiario del Acuerdo de retirada.
> 
> At least we dont need to make new applications which would have been a nuisance.


I think that's a pragmatic decision by the Spanish as otherwise if every British resident in Spain had to apply for a new TIE it would be a very big administrative burden for them. I probably will apply for one in due course, if only because it is proof of ID so no need to carry my passport, but there's no immediate rush.

I just hope it doesn't cause any problems for people if less than well trained or informed staff in various offices start rejecting the EU citizen resident registration certificates we have because they think we should have a TIE because we are British and the UK has left the EU.


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## tebo53

I received my permanent residency card only last January but I still intend to apply for a TIE card so not to cause confusion at any offices and to be in line with the Spanish citizens. 

Steve


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## Megsmum

tebo53 said:


> I received my permanent residency card only last January but I still intend to apply for a TIE card so not to cause confusion at any offices and to be in line with the Spanish citizens.
> 
> Steve


This is our strategy as well.


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## Williams2

tebo53 said:


> I received my permanent residency card only last January but I still intend to apply for a TIE card so not to cause confusion at any offices and to be in line with the Spanish citizens.
> 
> Steve


I wonder what the penalty or punishment will be for those Brits who would rather hang onto their Green EU residency
card rather than change to a non EU TIE ??

Finally what happened with Guy Verhofstadt's idea of a new Associate EU Citizenship for those Brit's who have 
full residency rights in their adopted EU country before Brexit ?
To quote one of Guy Verhofstadt tweets:
The EU member states should grant UK citizens living in Europe the full rights as they have today.
Automatically. No ‘ifs and buts’ here either. 
Let's also come back to the idea of ‘European associated citizenship’ for UK citizens who want to keep their
link with Europe.

Here's more on Guy Verhofstadt's proposal.

The Connexion - Give more help to Britain's and EU citizens says MEP


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## Megsmum

Lynn R said:


> I think that's a pragmatic decision by the Spanish as otherwise if every British resident in Spain had to apply for a new TIE it would be a very big administrative burden for them. I probably will apply for one in due course, if only because it is proof of ID so no need to carry my passport, but there's no immediate rush.
> 
> I just hope it doesn't cause any problems for people if less than well trained or informed staff in various offices start rejecting the EU citizen resident registration certificates we have because they think we should have a TIE because we are British and the UK has left the EU.


When’s the deadline for a TIE.?


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## kaipa

Williams2 said:


> tebo53 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I received my permanent residency card only last January but I still intend to apply for a TIE card so not to cause confusion at any offices and to be in line with the Spanish citizens.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what the penalty or punishment will be for those Brits who would rather hang onto their Green EU residency
> card rather than change to a non EU TIE ??
Click to expand...

Why do you think there is a penalty? Did you read the BOE. It says you can change if you want to but it is not obligatory


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## kaipa

Megsmum said:


> Lynn R said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think that's a pragmatic decision by the Spanish as otherwise if every British resident in Spain had to apply for a new TIE it would be a very big administrative burden for them. I probably will apply for one in due course, if only because it is proof of ID so no need to carry my passport, but there's no immediate rush.
> 
> I just hope it doesn't cause any problems for people if less than well trained or informed staff in various offices start rejecting the EU citizen resident registration certificates we have because they think we should have a TIE because we are British and the UK has left the EU.
> 
> 
> 
> When’s the deadline for a TIE.?
Click to expand...


It says you need to make an application within 3months of arriving.


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## Williams2

kaipa said:


> Why do you think there is a penalty? Did you read the BOE. It says you can change if you want to but it is not obligatory.


Not yet although knowing officialdom there's always a cut off date where even if its not obligatory,
life will become difficult without the proper documents.


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## Lynn R

kaipa said:


> It says you need to make an application within 3months of arriving.


But that obviously can't be applicable to those who have already been registered as residents for at least 5 years, thus are permanent residents and should be able to simply exchange their current registration certificate for a TIE.


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## kaipa

Lynn R said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> 
> It says you need to make an application within 3months of arriving.
> 
> 
> 
> But that obviously can't be applicable to those who have already been registered as residents for at least 5 years, thus are permanent residents and should be able to simply exchange their current registration certificate for a TIE.
Click to expand...

Sorry thought you meant for people applying for TIEs. There is no cut off date for people who already have registered. You dont need one unless you want one. However, TIEs are only valid for 10 years if you have permanent residency and 5 for those with temporary.


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## Megsmum

kaipa said:


> Sorry thought you meant for people applying for TIEs. There is no cut off date for people who already have registered. You dont need one unless you want one. However, TIEs are only valid for 10 years if you have permanent residency and 5 for those with temporary.


Thank you. 

We will apply for one but will wait until next year and the rush is over!


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## Williams2

xabiaxica said:


> TIEs will be issued as of Monday 6/7/2020
> 
> 
> https://www.boe.es/diario_boe/txt.p...N3_mCw0h_Z5jgDpPsg-w75eFLruP41baV0ds8wtaxvcIc
> 
> We keep our rights as residents
> 
> A few key points after a quick read. By all means add more if you read it.
> 
> Anyone not yet registered fills in EX20 & has to show healthcare provision & income under current EU citizen requirements.
> 
> Everyone who is already registered fills in EX23 & must have a valid passport, & obviously pay the fee (modelo 790, código 012).
> 
> A photo is required, NO mention of fingerprints. NO mention of showing income or healthcare provision. It's essentially a swap.
> 
> Residents who have been registered for under 5 years will be issued with a card with 5 year validity,
> 
> Residents who have been registered for more than 5 years will be issued with a card with 10 year validity.


Here's my 2 cents worth ( looking at it from what I would call the Old Curmudgeons point of view ) the current Green
Resident card particularly those that are 'permanente' have 'No Expiry date' on them at all, whereas the new TIE 
will mean a fee and a limited life span ( namely 10 years ) and another fee to pay upon expiry at the end of that
10 year period.

As a previous poster said there's no obligation to change it to a TIE ( unless someone can point out otherwise ) 
under the BOE and therefore ( the Old Curmudgeon ) could - so long as he or she doesn't change address
( which could be the only time they might be obliged to change it to a TIE ) stay with their old Green Resident card
( just like Brits in the UK could quite legally hang onto their old Paper Driving License, so long as they don't change address )
which also had no 10 year expiry date - only ( in many cases ) their 65 birthday date as an expiry date.

I know many people in the UK who had that attitude about not changing their British Paper driving licenses
for the credit card sized Driving license for the same reasons.

Finally it's a nice way of saying 'Up Yours Brexit !!'


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## Catalunya22

*Residency Application.*

Can anyone PLEASE help.

I had an appointment with the Policia Nacional in Barcelona on 2nd July for my residency application.
However, they emailed me the day before to say my appointment has been cancelled..presumably because of all this.

Does anyone know how I go about making an apoointment now?
Is it still with the Policia Nacional in Barcelona...and what option do I need from the drop-down menu. There used to be an option exclusively for people from the UK...but now this has disappeared.

Do I choose the one that says "Certificados UE"???

If anyone can point me in the right direction I would be hugely grateful.
Many thanks.


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## xabiaxica

Williams2 said:


> I wonder what the penalty or punishment will be for those Brits who would rather hang onto their Green EU residency
> card rather than change to a non EU TIE ??


No penalty, no punishment. It's clear that changing is completely optional & neither choice has any bearing on the continuing of our rights.


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## Melosine

As I recall our 1st green card ran out. So I guess those of us that have “ permanency” now are covered. Those who don’t will have to go TIE route for as William2, quite correctly, stated why change and pay for something that will run eventually out.


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## xabiaxica

Melosine said:


> As I recall our 1st green card ran out. So I guess those of us that have “ permanency” now are covered. Those who don’t will have to go TIE route for as William2, quite correctly, stated why change and pay for something that will run eventually out.


Anyone already registered wil automatically retain rights. 

No-one HAS to change to a TIE. 

The only difference is that those who have been registered for under 5 years will be issued a 5 year TIE with the word 'temporal' on it, should they apply for one - they are group A

Those who have been registered for more than 5 years - so 'permanent residents' - groups B who haven't already swapped to a permanent registration card, & group C who have, will both be issued 10 year TIEs which say 'permanente' on them.


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## Williams2

xabiaxica said:


> *Anyone already registered wil automatically retain rights.*
> 
> *No-one HAS to change to a TIE. *
> 
> The only difference is that those who have been registered for under 5 years will be issued a 5 year TIE with the word 'temporal' on it, should they apply for one - they are group A
> 
> Those who have been registered for more than 5 years - so 'permanent residents' - groups B who haven't already swapped to a permanent registration card, & group C who have, will both be issued 10 year TIEs which say 'permanente' on them.


Great already Whatsapped & FBed a number of mates on this ( both permanente ) who are going to keep
their permanente Green Resident Cards ( like many Brit's kept their old British Paper driving license )
and for the same reason, it's legal with no fee, no expiry date /SNIP/
thrown in.


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## kaipa

The drawback with the green card is it isnt an ID document whereas a TIE is. Having said that if you wish to just hold on to it you can and even after 5 years you do not need to change it you automatically have permanent residency rights.


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## Megsmum

xabiaxica said:


> Anyone already registered wil automatically retain rights.
> 
> No-one HAS to change to a TIE.
> 
> The only difference is that those who have been registered for under 5 years will be issued a 5 year TIE with the word 'temporal' on it, should they apply for one - they are group A
> 
> Those who have been registered for more than 5 years - so 'permanent residents' - groups B who haven't already swapped to a permanent registration card, & group C who have, will both be issued 10 year TIEs which say 'permanente' on them.



So basically. We are now all good to go? 

Will anyone on here be swapping for a TIE?


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## Williams2

Megsmum said:


> So basically. We are now all good to go?
> 
> Will anyone on here be swapping for a TIE?


Not me for all the reasons stated.


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## Melosine

Spanish driving licence has photo ID . So everything already covered as far as I can surmise.


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## Lynn R

Megsmum said:


> So basically. We are now all good to go?
> 
> Will anyone on here be swapping for a TIE?


I think I will - for the reason I stated earlier, that it serves as photo ID so I don't have to carry my passport. I don't have a driving licence so that isn't an option for ID for me. I also fear that keeping the old EU citizen registration certificate "card" might cause confusion amongst some people when I have to produce it, who may be aware that the UK has left the EU but not that we have the option to retain the original resident certificate.

I won't bother applying before next year - let any glitches get ironed out first.


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## kaipa

Lynn R said:


> Megsmum said:
> 
> 
> 
> So basically. We are now all good to go?
> 
> Will anyone on here be swapping for a TIE?
> 
> 
> 
> I think I will - for the reason I stated earlier, that it serves as photo ID so I don't have to carry my passport. I don't have a driving licence so that isn't an option for ID for me. I also fear that keeping the old EU citizen registration certificate "card" might cause confusion amongst some people when I have to produce it, who may be aware that the UK has left the EU but not that we have the option to retain the original resident certificate.
> 
> I won't bother applying before next year - let any glitches get ironed out first.
Click to expand...

Given that your green card is hardly ever used for anything other than showing your NIE and , of course, lots of other countries will still go on using it I cant really see it being a problem. In fact if anything thd fact that it is a UE member card it probably has advantages as TIE indicate you are 3rd country members which will immediately mean that you dont have automatic EU rights.


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## xabiaxica

kaipa said:


> Given that your green card is hardly ever used for anything other than showing your NIE and , of course, lots of other countries will still go on using it I cant really see it being a problem. In fact if anything thd fact that it is a UE member card it probably has advantages as TIE indicate you are 3rd country members which will immediately mean that you dont have automatic EU rights.


It's a special TIE which states that we retain rights to live work etc. Whether it's actually written on it or in some sort of code isn't yet clear. 


I probably will change. I don't drive, so don't have any photo ID other than the passport, so it would be useful in that way. 

Apparently nationality applications aren't taking long now though, so maybe I'll just go straight for that.


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## Williams2

xabiaxica said:


> It's a special TIE which states that we retain rights to live work etc. Whether it's actually written on it or in some sort of code isn't yet clear.
> 
> 
> I probably will change. I don't drive, so don't have any photo ID other than the passport, so it would be useful in that way.
> 
> Apparently nationality applications aren't taking long now though, so maybe I'll just go straight for that.


A couple of British residents I know in Asturias are also going for Spanish nationality and see no point in changing
and paying for the TIE when it would be of limited use for them anyway ( having driving licenses for id already ) 
after gaining Spanish nationality and therefore happy to keep their Green Resident cards for the duration.

/SNIP/


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## Melosine

Lynn R said:


> I think I will - for the reason I stated earlier, that it serves as photo ID so I don't have to carry my passport. I don't have a driving licence so that isn't an option for ID for me. I also fear that keeping the old EU citizen registration certificate "card" might cause confusion amongst some people when I have to produce it, who may be aware that the UK has left the EU but not that we have the option to retain the original resident certificate.
> 
> I won't bother applying before next year - let any glitches get ironed out first.


Do you not drive? Because can see no other reason why anyone wouldn’t change over if living here permanently. 
Understand for those living here who still drive on a UK licence then from next next the only option is to take a Spanish driving test in order to change over. 
As an aside, my passport ran out a couple of years ago and the ayuntamiento had no problem with it as number was the same. For this reason I have yet to renew. Spanish authority cannot understand Brits having constantly changing numbers for everything. I agree it is illogical and causes endless problems here.


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## Lynn R

Melosine said:


> Do you not drive? Because can see no other reason why anyone wouldn’t change over if living here permanently.
> Understand for those living here who still drive on a UK licence then from next next the only option is to take a Spanish driving test in order to change over.
> As an aside, my passport ran out a couple of years ago and the ayuntamiento had no problem with it as number was the same. For this reason I have yet to renew. Spanish authority cannot understand Brits having constantly changing numbers for everything. I agree it is illogical and causes endless problems here.


No, I don't drive, never have. If I'd ever had a UK driving licence, of course I would have exchanged it for a Spanish one years ago.


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## Williams2

Melosine said:


> Do you not drive? Because can see no other reason why anyone wouldn’t change over if living here permanently.
> Understand for those living here who still drive on a UK licence then from next next the only option is to take a Spanish driving test in order to change over.
> As an aside, my passport ran out a couple of years ago and the ayuntamiento had no problem with it as number was the same. For this reason I have yet to renew. Spanish authority cannot understand Brits having constantly changing numbers for everything. I agree it is illogical and causes endless problems here.


The Spanish authorities also cannot get round the fact that when a British Passport expires ( as it does every 10 years )
the new British Passport that's issued to Brit's has a new passport number on it rather than retaining their
old passport number.


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## Melosine

Then Lynn R , as you don’t drive, you would be best to apply. 
However if Spanish test is true then perhaps those here who have yet to exchange their licence might now be prompted to.


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## Melosine

Certainly on my case Spanish isn’t good enough to try for nationality. 
Not that I would actually want to.
Only organisation to date who have ever wanted to see our green cards was our bank when we became “ permanent” 13 years ago.


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## Lynn R

Melosine said:


> Then Lynn R , as you don’t drive, you would be best to apply.
> However if Spanish test is true then perhaps those here who have yet to exchange their licence might now be prompted to.


I´m not actually looking for advice as to whether or not to apply for the TIE, I´ll make my own decision about that.

By the way, when I renewed my UK passport I updated my residency certificate so the new number would be on official records, so there would be no ambiguity if the two did not match in the future. It wasn't a problem, just chose the "cambio de documento de identidad" option on the EX18 form.

I expect the INSS will want to see my "green card" (or a TIE if I get one) when I register a new S1 form with them in 2 years' time after I become entitled to one in my own right, and I think we may well have to show them when re-entering Spain on a UK passport in future.


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## Melosine

Sorry that was the way you read my post, Lynn R, when all I was doing was agreeing with you. 
Certainly not telling you what to do. 
Smack on the wrist for moi.


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## Joppa

xabiaxica said:


> It's a special TIE which states that we retain rights to live work etc. Whether it's actually written on it or in some sort of code isn't yet clear.


The TIE for Britons who are beneficiary of the withdrawal agreement will have the relevant Articles of WA quoted on the card, without spelling out specific rights (there is no room for them in any case). 

"In addition, the Decision specifies a number of elements to be included in those documents. Thus, in the residence documents in Article 18 of the Agreement, the field corresponding to the Type of Permit must appear 'Article 50 TEU' and, in the field corresponding to Observations, it must be recorded that it has been issued in accordance with Article 18.4 of the Agreement." (from machine translation of Annex)


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## kaipa

I notice that many people are getting lots of things confused about the new release
First it is a BOE that means its effectively it's a state document. It is different in scope to the information released on the moncloa site earlier in the year after the agreement was reached. This BOE basically states that rights remain unchanged prior to Brexit for those with residency prior to 31st december etc. It then provides 6 escenarios for different catergories. It does not deal with requirements to meet residencia not does it mention periods where persons can reside outside of spain. It does not deal with driving licences or work conditions ( other than stating rights remain). It does provide details of required forms that need to completed and document needed to be shown. It does not mean that residency is granted before 31st of december by simply filling a form, paying a fee and then presenting your passport and some photos.


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## Overandout

Williams2 said:


> The Spanish authorities also cannot get round the fact that when a British Passport expires ( as it does every 10 years )
> the new British Passport that's issued to Brit's has a new passport number on it rather than retaining their
> old passport number.


The next time you meet a surprised Spaniard for this reason, just tell them to check their own country's way of doing things because Spanish passports (like most in the world) do change upon renewal.

The thing is that the Spanish pay no attention to the passport number as for them it is just a document number, their personal ID (DNI) doesn't change and this is what they have in their mind as ID. But the actual passport number does change.


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## Overandout

FWIW, I will probably do the upgrade to a TIE just for the more universally accepted ID issue (I am not getting into the argument about what docs constitute legal ID in Spain again by the way).

I intend to go for citizenship eventually, but I admit to being too lethargic about it at the moment.


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## Megsmum

Overandout said:


> FWIW, I will probably do the upgrade to a TIE just for the more universally accepted ID issue (I am not getting into the argument about what docs constitute legal ID in Spain again by the way).
> 
> I intend to go for citizenship eventually, but I admit to being too lethargic about it at the moment.


totally agree. We have all been living with the Brexit result for so long, I’m personally just relieved that our situation has resolved itself and will now breath take stock and apply for a TIE when all the guinea pigs have been before!


32 days and counting!


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## xabiaxica

A friend had his appointment in Málaga to change his res cert to the new TIE yesterday. 

His fingerprints were taken, which although wasn't stated on the BOE shouldn't come as a surprise, since the TIE is a photo ID card.

It's also dealt with by a different office / desk with specifically trained staff - to those making a first application, so there's no issue with 'holding things up' for those trying to get appointments for a first application, as I've seen suggested on various social media. 

I just went through the appointment process fpr Alicante, & it's a different option on the menu - & appointments are available.


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## Lynn R

And we think we've got problems .....

https://elpais.com/espana/2020-07-1...s-tramites-de-los-ciudadanos-extranjeros.html


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## TanGem

Does anyone know if its still the old office by police station in Torre del Mar and can you pay the fee online? Ta


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## Lynn R

TanGem said:


> Does anyone know if its still the old office by police station in Torre del Mar and can you pay the fee online? Ta


No, the Comisaria de Policia Nacional and the Extranjeria office have moved to a new site. It is close to the roundabout where the turnoff to the hospital is. It's a low rise, all white building hardly visible from the road, next to the blue and white apartment blocks which are between the roads heading into and out of Torre del Mar (one way system, I find it hard to describe).


https://www.malagahoy.es/velez-mala...licia-Nacional-Velez-Malaga_0_1439556405.html

The fee can't be paid online, you need to take 3 completed copies of the Modelo 790(012) to the bank. They will keep one and stamp the other 2 paid and give them back to you, one is for the Extranjeria and one for you to keep. The fee is €12.


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## TanGem

Lynn R said:


> No, the Comisaria de Policia Nacional and the Extranjeria office have moved to a new site. It is close to the roundabout where the turnoff to the hospital is. It's a low rise, all white building hardly visible from the road, next to the blue and white apartment blocks which are between the roads heading into and out of Torre del Mar (one way system, I find it hard to describe).
> 
> 
> https://www.malagahoy.es/velez-mala...licia-Nacional-Velez-Malaga_0_1439556405.html
> 
> The fee can't be paid online, you need to take 3 completed copies of the Modelo 790(012) to the bank. They will keep one and stamp the other 2 paid and give them back to you, one is for the Extranjeria and one for you to keep. The fee is €12.


Many thanks


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## Williams2

Overandout said:


> FWIW, I will probably do the upgrade to a TIE just for the more universally accepted ID issue (I am not getting into the argument about what docs constitute legal ID in Spain again by the way).
> 
> I intend to go for citizenship eventually, but I admit to being too lethargic about it at the moment.


I will probably get round to going for the TIE eventually but as we all know there's no obligation to change
it and therefore will be in my 'sometime never' list of things to do, in exactly the same way as I regarded
the new ( Credit card sized ) British driving license when they were introduced - when there was no rush
while my original Paper Britsh driving license served me just as well with the added perk of no fee, no expiry date 
( except for the obvious - when you reach 65 or your eyesight fails or medical reasons or change permanent
address ) therefore as long as I lived at the same address as when my Paper driving license was issued,
no problem.

No doubt when I eventually get round to the TIE - the 10 year expiry date clock starts in 2021, 2022, etc,
etc, etc.

Of course I will miss the joy of doing 'selfies' with the new TIE but I wasn't the slightest bit interested in
doing the same with the new UK Credit Card sized driving license when they came out.


----------



## Alcalaina

Lynn R said:


> And we think we've got problems .....
> 
> https://elpais.com/espana/2020-07-1...s-tramites-de-los-ciudadanos-extranjeros.html


----------



## TanGem

Lynn R said:


> No, the Comisaria de Policia Nacional and the Extranjeria office have moved to a new site. It is close to the roundabout where the turnoff to the hospital is. It's a low rise, all white building hardly visible from the road, next to the blue and white apartment blocks which are between the roads heading into and out of Torre del Mar (one way system, I find it hard to describe).
> 
> 
> https://www.malagahoy.es/velez-mala...licia-Nacional-Velez-Malaga_0_1439556405.html
> 
> The fee can't be paid online, you need to take 3 completed copies of the Modelo 790(012) to the bank. They will keep one and stamp the other 2 paid and give them back to you, one is for the Extranjeria and one for you to keep. The fee is €12.


Many thanks

On the Modelo 790(012) Am I correct in thinking that I select "._Certificate of registration of community resident or residence card of family member of a citizen of the Union._" This is 12€ ( I currently have green card sayng "permanente"? Thanks


----------



## Lynn R

TanGem said:


> Many thanks
> 
> On the Modelo 790(012) Am I correct in thinking that I select "._Certificate of registration of community resident or residence card of family member of a citizen of the Union._" This is 12€ ( I currently have green card sayng "permanente"? Thanks


I'm really not sure about that. That option obviously relates to the green card we already have, I would have thought there would be an option relating to a TIE but I haven't looked at the form yet.


----------



## membawa

I'm planning to change to the TIE (will be useful for photo ID). I'm on holiday at the moment in Málaga province (my normal address is in Alicante). Wonder if I will get away with doing it in the wrong province (it does state you're not allowed but I wonder if they actually check).

Would be interesting to see what info features on the TIE (address etc.). Has anyone here actually got their hands on one yet?


----------



## Williams2

Williams2 said:


> I will probably get round to going for the TIE eventually but as we all know there's no obligation to change
> it and therefore will be in my 'sometime never' list of things to do, in exactly the same way as I regarded
> the new ( Credit card sized ) British driving license when they were introduced - when there was no rush
> while my original Paper Britsh driving license served me just as well with the added perk of no fee, no expiry date
> ( except for the obvious - when you reach 65 or your eyesight fails or medical reasons or change permanent
> address ) therefore as long as I lived at the same address as when my Paper driving license was issued,
> no problem.
> 
> No doubt when I eventually get round to the TIE - the 10 year expiry date clock starts in 2021, 2022, etc,
> etc, etc.
> 
> Of course I will miss the joy of doing 'selfies' with the new TIE but I wasn't the slightest bit interested in
> doing the same with the new UK Credit Card sized driving license when they came out.


Had the same attitude with 'going to the wire' before exchanging my British driving license for a Spanish driving
license because I knew the exchange would 'wipe out' a number classes of vehicle I could drive on my UK driving
license but would not be included on my new Spanish driving license.


----------



## Melosine

Guess lots of Brits have been living under the radar, for many a year, because of the size of this queue.


----------



## Melosine

Just as aside. Our accountant had to have the number on our green card for tax office. 
Maybe a few thousand more Brits will have to pay into the system here instead of UK. Could prove a costly exercise for some. Hmmm.


----------



## Megsmum

Melosine said:


> Guess lots of Brits have been living under the radar, for many a year, because of the size of this queue.





Melosine said:


> Just as aside. Our accountant had to have the number on our green card for tax office.
> Maybe a few thousand more Brits will have to pay into the system here instead of UK. Could prove a costly exercise for some. Hmmm.


From a mean and not very charitable point of view, if people have been living here under the radar etc etc may they be in a very long queue for a long time!


----------



## kaipa

Melosine said:


> Just as aside. Our accountant had to have the number on our green card for tax office.
> Maybe a few thousand more Brits will have to pay into the system here instead of UK. Could prove a costly exercise for some. Hmmm.


Oh yes that is a very good point. Your green card has a number on the back which is used to coordinate your tax account. This year I didn't have my certificado de retenciones but my accountant said it wasnt necessary as the Hacienda use the code on my green card to track my tax history so I gave them that instead and low and behold they traced all my income for the year. So I wonder if the TIE has that too. It also goes to show how your residency is easily linked to your tax situation and explains why some people said they had their tax investigated no long ago for 2014.


----------



## Melosine

Shhhh. We won’t tell, those now desperate to finally become legal here, that there could be tax repercussions. 
Plus because of Covid countries stating a preference to use cards instead of cash the world of those who seek to deceive the authorities is getting smaller and smaller.


----------



## kaipa

Yes as soon as you get residency you are traceable through a number on the card. This number must provide all your tax information as my accountant, as I said, got my model 100 from previous years to check various things. So good luck to those who are thinking they will register here and want to at least traced up if they dont make declaration


----------



## xabiaxica

membawa said:


> I'm planning to change to the TIE (will be useful for photo ID). I'm on holiday at the moment in Málaga province (my normal address is in Alicante). Wonder if I will get away with doing it in the wrong province (it does state you're not allowed but I wonder if they actually check).
> 
> Would be interesting to see what info features on the TIE (address etc.). Has anyone here actually got their hands on one yet?


No-one will have one yet. You are contacted to go back to collect the card about a month (they say atm) after the first appointment.


----------



## Love Karma

kaipa said:


> Oh yes that is a very good point. Your green card has a number on the back which is used to coordinate your tax account. This year I didn't have my certificado de retenciones but my accountant said it wasnt necessary as the Hacienda use the code on my green card to track my tax history so I gave them that instead and low and behold they traced all my income for the year. So I wonder if the TIE has that too. It also goes to show how your residency is easily linked to your tax situation and explains why some people said they had their tax investigated no long ago for 2014.


I have the Green A4 sheet where is this tax code number or is it only on the card size?


----------



## kaipa

The number is 7 digits on back of green card. No idea about paper ones though


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Love Karma said:


> I have the Green A4 sheet where is this tax code number or is it only on the card size?


 Look on this page. Scroll down until you see a photo of a certificate in A4 size. It's in the top right hand corner and it's circled in red in the photo.
https://www.agenciatributaria.es/AE...oporte_valido/Introduzca_soporte_valido.shtml


----------



## Melosine

We had an A4 green paper one in 2007. After 5 years( 2012) we were required to get the green card. So long ago cannot recall how we knew we had to upgrade.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Melosine said:


> We had an A4 green paper one in 2007. After 5 years( 2012) we were required to get the green card. So long ago cannot recall how we knew we had to upgrade.


I still have the green A4 and have never been told I have to get a card; you can if you want, well not now...


----------



## kaipa

I heard on the news that UK is announcing more details on its immigration policy after Dec 31st. One thing that appears to be a requirement for EU citizens wishing to reside in UK is a sufficient level of English. If this applies to all Spanish ( if you are non working, retired? ) why shouldn't Spain reciprocate in kind to Brits. Seems fair?


----------



## Megsmum

kaipa said:


> I heard on the news that UK is announcing more details on its immigration policy after Dec 31st. One thing that appears to be a requirement for EU citizens wishing to reside in UK is a sufficient level of English. If this applies to all Spanish ( if you are non working, retired? ) why shouldn't Spain reciprocate in kind to Brits. Seems fair?


https://www.euronews.com/2020/02/19...work-in-uk-britain-tells-post-brexit-migrants
Posted link 

Because that’s the rule for everyone else outside the EU already. Plus this is to prevent low skilled workers going over and doing all those jobs the regular brits don’t want or can’t want to do.

Why shouldn’t spain seems fair? Well maybe because Spain belongs to the EU and has a slightly more inclusive viewpoint than those in the U.K. such as Patel et al wanting control of their borders The motive of the U.K. to have English speaking tests is not about Integration it’s about closing borders. If people spent less time worrying about how and why others live their lives the world would be a better place and maybe we wouldn’t have Brexit and Trump. You do seem very preoccupied with putting down those that do not speak the language, it’s up to individuals how they cope living in a foreign country, whatever that country, everyone I know tries to speak it a few fluently, although I will contest Speaking fluently in a language that is non native, some get on with day to day stuff , like myself and others need help with many things. I did read someone mentioned going to the Drs and needing to understand everything if the situation was serious, whilst I agree that’s a tricky time, I suspect very few English Spanish speaking people understand the nuances of medical terminology anyway, 39 plus years in te NHS tells me most don’t understand it in their own language.

Whilst I personally prefer to speak Spanish I’m no where near proficient, I suspect I never will be. Of course language is important but so are many other things about living in Spain or any other foreign country and as immigrants we should really know that 

If Spain wants to introduce a language skills test then it will I’m not really bothered either way. Far more things in the world to worry about that British enclaves in Spain where no one speaks Spanish. Imagine coming onto these boards as a newbie and being told you won’t intergrate if you do not speak the language... so British.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Megsmum said:


> https://www.euronews.com/2020/02/19...work-in-uk-britain-tells-post-brexit-migrants
> Posted link
> 
> Because that’s the rule for everyone else outside the EU already. Plus this is to prevent low skilled workers going over and doing all those jobs the regular brits don’t want or can’t want to do.
> 
> Why shouldn’t spain seems fair? Well maybe because Spain belongs to the EU and has a slightly more inclusive viewpoint than those in the U.K. such as Patel et al wanting control of their borders The motive of the U.K. to have English speaking tests is not about Integration it’s about closing borders. If people spent less time worrying about how and why others live their lives the world would be a better place and maybe we wouldn’t have Brexit and Trump. You do seem very preoccupied with putting down those that do not speak the language, it’s up to individuals how they cope living in a foreign country, whatever that country, everyone I know tries to speak it a few fluently, although I will contest Speaking fluently in a language that is non native, some get on with day to day stuff , like myself and others need help with many things. I did read someone mentioned going to the Drs and needing to understand everything if the situation was serious, whilst I agree that’s a tricky time, I suspect very few English Spanish speaking people understand the nuances of medical terminology anyway, 39 plus years in te NHS tells me most don’t understand it in their own language.
> 
> Whilst I personally prefer to speak Spanish I’m no where near proficient, I suspect I never will be. Of course language is important but so are many other things about living in Spain or any other foreign country and as immigrants we should really know that
> 
> If Spain wants to introduce a language skills test then it will I’m not really bothered either way. Far more things in the world to worry about that British enclaves in Spain where no one speaks Spanish. Imagine coming onto these boards as a newbie and being told you won’t intergrate if you do not speak the language... so British.


First of all, I'm not sure kaipa has expressed his negative views about people who don't speak Spanish...

I share your sentiments to a certain extent. I do think that you will understand Spain more if you can speak the language and that will facilitate _integration_.
I do think _intergration_ is a matter of you and your personality though. We have lived in this town for many years, but are we _intergrated_ into town life? I would say not. We don't go to local council meetings, don't go to the local fiestas and bull fights in fact I avoid them like the plague, don't go to the local church etc etc. These are all very important aspects of life in this town for people of our age. We do buy a lot of our stuff through a local consumers group, but not from a local producer, we do go to some local shops for a variety of things...It's our choice.
My daughter on the other hand is completely _intergrated_ into life here as she was born and brought up here and knows all the ins and outs.


> I did read someone mentioned going to the Drs and needing to understand everything if the situation was serious, whilst I agree that’s a tricky time, I suspect very few English Spanish speaking people understand the nuances of medical terminology anyway, 39 plus years in te NHS tells me most don’t understand it in their own language.


Yes I was going to say the same thing on another post. I don't understand everything when I go to the doctor's, but I wouldn't anyway. I discovered long ago with a friend of mine, who unfortunately has to go to the doctor's every week, that always try to go with another person, no matter what language you are using (she's fluent in 3!). If you go with someone else they will probably pick up on other info and may remember to ask pertinent questions that you had forgotten/ not thought of.


----------



## Megsmum

Pesky Wesky said:


> of all, I'm not sure kaipa has expressed his negative views about people who don't speak Spanish...
> 
> I share your sentiments to a certain extent. I do think that you will understand Spain more if you can speak the language and that will facilitate _integration_.
> I do think _intergration_ is a matter of you and your personality though. We have lived in this town for many years, but are we _intergrated_ into town life? I would say not. We don't go to local council meetings, don't go to the local fiestas and bull fights in fact I avoid them like the plague, don't go to the local church etc etc. These are all very important aspects of life in this town for people of our age. We do buy a lot of our stuff through a local consumers group, but not from a local producer, we do go to some local shops for a variety of things...It's our choice.
> My daughter on the other hand is completely _intergrated_ into life here as she was born and brought up here and knows all the ins and outs.
> 
> 
> Yes I was going to say the same thing on another post. I don't understand everything when I go to the doctor's, but I wouldn't anyway. I discovered long ago with a friend of mine, who unfortunately has to go to the doctor's every week, that always try to go with another person, no matter what language you are using (she's fluent in 3!). If you go with someone else they will probably pick up on other info and may remember to ask pertinent questions that you had forgotten/ not thought of.


Point taken


----------



## kaipa

I think the point I wish to make is fairness. How would you feel if you were Spanish and you had been planning on going to live in UK.( Maybe your children lived there with your grandchildren)
Suddenly your right of residency depended on speaking English. Then you look around you and you see your English neighbours in Spain whose residency rests solely on their wealth. Would you not feel slightly disadvantaged?
I agree that Brexit thinking has contributed to this and I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of Brits would say its reasonable to expect foreigners to speak English if they live in UK but dont feel it should be a requisite of them living in Spain


----------



## Megsmum

kaipa said:


> I think the point I wish to make is fairness. How would you feel if you were Spanish and you had been planning on going to live in UK.( Maybe your children lived there with your grandchildren)
> Suddenly your right of residency depended on speaking English. Then you look around you and you see your English neighbours in Spain whose residency rests solely on their wealth. Would you not feel slightly disadvantaged?
> I agree that Brexit thinking has contributed to this and I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of Brits would say its reasonable to expect foreigners to speak English if they live in UK but dont feel it should be a requisite of them living in Spain


If the point you are making is fairness.... then in that scenario it’s not fair BUT what if your parents wanted to move and live with you after 2021... they’d have to have a much higher income threshold than you or other pensioners around you and would also not have the benefit of an S1 in the future. We were one of the last people to be issued with the early retirement S1 back in 2014 after we arrived others had to get private cover straight away, we had two years of state cover.. life is not fair and none of what you have stated, which are all totally valid points have anything to do with the ability to speak the language and being intergrated into a community, the two are, in my opinion, separate issues.


----------



## Alcalaina

kaipa said:


> I heard on the news that UK is announcing more details on its immigration policy after Dec 31st. One thing that appears to be a requirement for EU citizens wishing to reside in UK is a sufficient level of English. If this applies to all Spanish ( if you are non working, retired? ) why shouldn't Spain reciprocate in kind to Brits. Seems fair?


Britain has decided it's overpopulated and the government is committed to reducing immigration levels, so it will continue to impose deterrents. Spain is losing population year on year and depends on immigrants to keep the economy going in future, so doesn't need deterrents (other than economic, which it already has with the residency qualification requirements). Also very few EU citizens will be planning to retire to the UK - they will go there to work or study. So it's not really meaningful to compare them.


----------



## Alcalaina

kaipa said:


> ...I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of Brits would say its reasonable to expect foreigners to speak English if they live in UK but dont feel it should be a requisite of them living in Spain


If we're talking about Brits living in or planning to move to Spain, I doubt if it's a majority. Apart from the stereotypical retired gin-swilling Costa residents so beloved of the British media, most Brits _do_ make an effort to learn the language, at least to a basic level. Making it a requirement would increase their motivation to carry on and not give up because they find it too hard/can't find the time. But I don't think Spain will introduce this, for reasons stated in my previous post.


----------



## Melosine

If people want / have to work to live in another country, a y country, then to speak that idioma is a must. However to retire to another country with the age related problems we all have, ie hearing, recall, it becomes more difficult to be anywhere near fluent. 
Would guess only a minuscule % of foreigners from the southern warmer climes retire to northwards and then only to join the family.


----------



## Lynn R

Alcalaina said:


> Britain has decided it's overpopulated and the government is committed to reducing immigration levels,


Except when it comes to 3 million residents of Hong Kong, apparently there would be room for them, no problem.


----------



## kaipa

Lynn R said:


> Alcalaina said:
> 
> 
> 
> Britain has decided it's overpopulated and the government is committed to reducing immigration levels,
> 
> 
> 
> Except when it comes to 3 million residents of Hong Kong, apparently there would be room for them, no problem.
Click to expand...

Would be interesting to hear the view of a Spanish person for the sake of balance.


----------



## kaipa

I only say that because I got a Facebook feed the other day which concerned uk immigration and a Spanish girl was complaining about how she was labelled an immigrant in the UK whereas Brits in Spain were labelled Expats. She was burnt immediately I might add!


----------



## Overandout

Melosine said:


> If people want / have to work to live in another country, a y country, then to speak that idioma is a must.


This is not true. Most UK expats in Asia (myself included) live and work in English speaking bubbles with native translators provided to do any official tasks like visas, work permits, driving licences etc.

I tried quite hard to learn Thai and stuck with the classes much longer than most expats, but I can assure you that it is a step beyond learning Spanish for an English speaker!

And sadly, although life isn't fair, I didn't "need" to speak Thai to live similarly to how many immigrants in Spain don't "need" to speak Spanish.


----------



## Alcalaina

kaipa said:


> I only say that because I got a Facebook feed the other day which concerned uk immigration and a Spanish girl was complaining about how she was labelled an immigrant in the UK whereas Brits in Spain were labelled Expats. She was burnt immediately I might add!


Well, she has a point.

Thanks largely to Brexit propaganda, the nature of anti-immigrant sentiment in the UK has shifted towards people who speak in foreign tongues, whereas in Spain it's still largely based on skin colour and religion.

Though the Spanish don't use the term _expatriado_ these days; it used to be applied to those who went into exile for political reasons.


----------



## Lynn R

Overandout said:


> This is not true. Most UK expats in Asia (myself included) live and work in English speaking bubbles with native translators provided to do any official tasks like visas, work permits, driving licences etc.
> 
> I tried quite hard to learn Thai and stuck with the classes much longer than most expats, but I can assure you that it is a step beyond learning Spanish for an English speaker!
> 
> And sadly, although life isn't fair, I didn't "need" to speak Thai to live similarly to how many immigrants in Spain don't "need" to speak Spanish.


I know quite a few people living and working in Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Oman who don't speak or read any Arabic. 

I am, though, amongst those people who think that if you go to live in another country (even if you are not going to be working there) then you should put in the effort to learn at least a basic level of that country's language. I've been reading a lot in the UK press in the last couple of weeks about the local lockdown in Leicester, and one of the reasons put forward (by representatives of the BAME community, that is) for why some people may not have been observing the hygiene and social distancing recommendations is that they don't speak English. Now surely it's essential that even people who don't work (spouses, maybe, or elderly relatives brought over to live with family) should be able to understand vital public health information.

And the same goes for British people living in Spain. I don't agree that the majority of them can speak Spanish. Many times Spanish people I have come into contact with in their professional capacity (doctors, nurses, police officers, etc) have expressed surprise when they have found that I do (and I am not fluent) and said that most British people they see do not. And some have even remarked that most German and Scandinavian people they encounter do speak Spanish, but not the British. If their retirees can learn Spanish, why can't ours?


----------



## tebo53

Lynn R said:


> I know quite a few people living and working in Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Oman who don't speak or read any Arabic.
> 
> I am, though, amongst those people who think that if you go to live in another country (even if you are not going to be working there) then you should put in the effort to learn at least a basic level of that country's language. I've been reading a lot in the UK press in the last couple of weeks about the local lockdown in Leicester, and one of the reasons put forward (by representatives of the BAME community, that is) for why some people may not have been observing the hygiene and social distancing recommendations is that they don't speak English. Now surely it's essential that even people who don't work (spouses, maybe, or elderly relatives brought over to live with family) should be able to understand vital public health information.
> 
> And the same goes for British people living in Spain. I don't agree that the majority of them can speak Spanish. Many times Spanish people I have come into contact with in their professional capacity (doctors, nurses, police officers, etc) have expressed surprise when they have found that I do (and I am not fluent) and said that most British people they see do not. And some have even remarked that most German and Scandinavian people they encounter do speak Spanish, but not the British. If their retirees can learn Spanish, why can't ours?


I spent four years learning basic Spanish before coming to live in Spain. Each time I used Spanish to order drinks or food etc they always answered me in English! Even the same response from the lady behind the post office counter to the girl at the Farmacia. I reverted back to talking in English full time. It's only my immediate Spanish neighbour that I can have a decent chat to in Spanish. 

Steve


----------



## Megsmum

Lynn R said:


> I know quite a few people living and working in Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Oman who don't speak or read any Arabic.
> 
> I am, though, amongst those people who think that if you go to live in another country (even if you are not going to be working there) then you should put in the effort to learn at least a basic level of that country's language. I've been reading a lot in the UK press in the last couple of weeks about the local lockdown in Leicester, and one of the reasons put forward (by representatives of the BAME community, that is) for why some people may not have been observing the hygiene and social distancing recommendations is that they don't speak English. Now surely it's essential that even people who don't work (spouses, maybe, or elderly relatives brought over to live with family) should be able to understand vital public health information.
> 
> And the same goes for British people living in Spain. I don't agree that the majority of them can speak Spanish. Many times Spanish people I have come into contact with in their professional capacity (doctors, nurses, police officers, etc) have expressed surprise when they have found that I do (and I am not fluent) and said that most British people they see do not. And some have even remarked that most German and Scandinavian people they encounter do speak Spanish, but not the British. If their retirees can learn Spanish, why can't ours?


 I don’t think anyone disagrees with the fact people should try and learn and do not understand why the British cannot learn Spanish, but I also think your location within Spain is very very relevant to your ability to learn and engage. Everyone knows when learning a language you need to be using it every day, if you live in a British enclave where your day to conversations are with fellow brits then dearly your ability to learn and practice will become less and less and becomes less important to individuals, why learn something you don’t need. Where I live knowing the basics of. Spanish is needed, but the start of this topic of languages was simply a poster stating you cannot intergrate into the community if you do not speak the language.

I think most people agree, having the basics is important equally it’s clear most people also agree speaking Spanish does not mean you are any more intergrated than someone who does not.


----------



## kaipa

Surely someone who speaks Spanish is more integrated than one who doesn't? Integration admittedly is wider than simply language but language is a fundamental of integration. You cant integrate with no language no matter how much paella and tinto verano you consume.


----------



## Isobella

Seems to be differing opinions about levels of integration. I would say that having a decent command of the language is a priority for integration plus a good knowledge of systems such as health, local laws etc. I don't think you can really have a close friend if each other do not communicate in the same language. A drinking partner or neighbour maybe where odd words are spluttered, pats on the back stuff. Seen it happen with expats, they call them their spanish friends but really they are just conocidos. Shared experiences are useful too. I joined a couple of demos with Spanish neighbours and a stop smoking clinic which gave me a bit of cred!

Nothing wrong if someone doesn't want or need to integrate, especially if financially independent and retiring. Most of the german retirees I know don't speak Spanish much either.


----------



## Lynn R

tebo53 said:


> It's only my immediate Spanish neighbour that I can have a decent chat to in Spanish.
> 
> Steve


The lady I met once in a fruteria would have liked to have you for her neighbour. There was a conversation going on and she asked me where I was from. When I said England, but I live here now, she had a good old moan about her British next door neighbour who, she said, had lived there for 12 years and spoke no Spanish at all. "I can't even talk to her", she said. It's a shame, most Spanish people are so friendly and it must be weird for them to have neighbours they still can't have even a basic conversation with them, like having a Martian next door.

At least you can use it when you need to, that's the important thing. I don't speak Spanish every day, apart from probably saying hello and thank you that is, but I can cope when I need to, read about what's going on in the papers and understand official letters which are sent to me. 

Megsmum is right, though, where you live in Spain makes a difference. Because of the tourism (residential and otherwise) I'm sure there are a lot more Spanish English-speaking people in Benidorm than most other places.


----------



## Isobella

Saw leicester as an example of not speaking the language. Absolutely everything is translated in many languages so saying they were not aware is not an excuse. Also the males in the family are usual decent English speakers (many do not want their wives to learn).


----------



## Lynn R

Isobella said:


> Saw leicester as an example of not speaking the language. Absolutely everything is translated in many languages so saying they were not aware is not an excuse. Also the males in the family are usual decent English speakers (many do not want their wives to learn).


If people wanting to come to the country (any country) have to demonstrate a certain level of competence in the language, then saying they can't do something because they don't speak it years later becomes impossible as an excuse.


----------



## kaipa

Just had a look at the new uk rules and they have decided that they will let foreigners in as care workers in homes without the need to reach the salary levels for other workers. No doubt that's an area that Brits dont work in due to wages and times. No doubt they will find the need to extend it to agriculture workers and hospitality until they basically end up effectively where they started off before Brexit!!


----------



## Lynn R

kaipa said:


> Just had a look at the new uk rules and they have decided that they will let foreigners in as care workers in homes without the need to reach the salary levels for other workers. No doubt that's an area that Brits dont work in due to wages and times. No doubt they will find the need to extend it to agriculture workers and hospitality until they basically end up effectively where they started off before Brexit!!


Not according to today's Guardian, they haven't.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...tem-to-exclude-care-workers-salary-thresholds


----------



## Megsmum

Lynn R said:


> Not according to today's Guardian, they haven't.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...tem-to-exclude-care-workers-salary-thresholds


Nope and of course not, black lives and BAME and jolly foreigners are only cheered from the sidelines during times of national strife, like wars and pandemics, when they’re not dying for the red white and blue, of little relevance 

The country was out clapping for key workers and now they’re out spreading the virus like it’s no longer matters and with Patel in charge of the home office I’m amazed that anyone actually thought it would be any difference. It’s all come together and things will be different until it’s not.

Wait until the chattering classes are told that they’ve got to clean toilets, work in care homes and make the middle classes their barista coffee...

Can’t wait to get home... 25 days and counting


----------



## Alcalaina

kaipa said:


> Surely someone who speaks Spanish is more integrated than one who doesn't? Integration admittedly is wider than simply language but language is a fundamental of integration. You cant integrate with no language no matter how much paella and tinto verano you consume.


As a rule, yes but there are exceptions. When I first moved here there was an English woman who spoke barely a word of Spanish but communicated brilliantly with her neighbours using empathy, sign language and the occasional noun. She made cakes for their children and did their sewing repairs, they rewarded her in kind. At the other end of the scale there was an older gentleman, a retired schoolteacher who spoke textbook Castellano in a loud voice and dismissed the locals as peasants because he couldn't understand them. One of them was most definitely integrated, the other remained an outcast his whole time here.


----------



## Megsmum

Alcalaina said:


> As a rule, yes but there are exceptions. When I first moved here there was an English woman who spoke barely a word of Spanish but communicated brilliantly with her neighbours using empathy, sign language and the occasional noun. She made cakes for their children and did their sewing repairs, they rewarded her in kind. At the other end of the scale there was an older gentleman, a retired schoolteacher who spoke textbook Castellano in a loud voice and dismissed the locals as peasants because he couldn't understand them. One of them was most definitely integrated, the other remained an outcast his whole time here.


Exactly this. My husband who cannot speak much at all is well intergrated and liked by those in the village. Another brit, who used to live in the village, married to a spanish blast, spoke Spanish was disliked and totally not intergrated at all, not liked by local etc

It’s about attitudes


----------



## Isobella

Megsmum said:


> Nope and of course not, black lives and BAME and jolly foreigners are only cheered from the sidelines during times of national strife, like wars and pandemics, when they’re not dying for the red white and blue, of little relevance
> 
> The country was out clapping for key workers and now they’re out spreading the virus like it’s no longer matters and with Patel in charge of the home office I’m amazed that anyone actually thought it would be any difference. It’s all come together and things will be different until it’s not.
> 
> Wait until the chattering classes are told that they’ve got to clean toilets, work in care homes and make the middle classes their barista coffee...
> 
> Can’t wait to get home... 25 days and counting


Are care home workers in Spain not low paid then?


----------



## Megsmum

Isobella said:


> Are care home workers in Spain not low paid then?


I would think so but I do not see the relevance to the new immigration policy in the U.K.?


----------



## simonsalsa

*Work/TIE/Brits in Spain*

British citizen in Spain. I am going to apply for the TIE for the first time. I have just got my Padron. I have been told that legally I can work for 90 days anywhere in Spain. But, many schools are asking for a NIE/TIE number.

As at July, 2020, can I legally work somewhere while applying for the TIE? Apparently, it could take 2-4 months before I get a TIE when all the paperwork and appointments are factored in.


----------



## Catalunya22

*Change NIE from paper to card*

Does anyone know how and where I can change an A4 white paper NIE number (issued by the Spanish Embassy in London) for an NIE issued on a card.

What documents are need..how much it costs etc...

I live in Barcelona.
I went to apply for my TIE today but they wouldn´t let me do it because my NIE was on the A4 paper.......
Can anyone URGENTLY advise on what I can do please?


----------



## xabiaxica

Catalunya22 said:


> Does anyone know how and where I can change an A4 white paper NIE number (issued by the Spanish Embassy in London) for an NIE issued on a card.
> 
> What documents are need..how much it costs etc...
> 
> I live in Barcelona.
> I went to apply for my TIE today but they wouldn´t let me do it because my NIE was on the A4 paper.......
> Can anyone URGENTLY advise on what I can do please?


If you don't have a green card / cert already, you'll be making a first application. Perhaps you had an appointment at the wrong office & had completed the wrong forms? 

First application is EX20, exchange of registration cert/card is EX23


----------



## xabiaxica

simonsalsa said:


> British citizen in Spain. I am going to apply for the TIE for the first time. I have just got my Padron. I have been told that legally I can work for 90 days anywhere in Spain. But, many schools are asking for a NIE/TIE number.
> 
> As at July, 2020, can I legally work somewhere while applying for the TIE? Apparently, it could take 2-4 months before I get a TIE when all the paperwork and appointments are factored in.


Yes, you can work as an EU citizen exercising treaty rights before you complete the paperwork - though if I were a school I'd be asking for proof at this point that you have started the application process. 


You can apply for a NIE seperately if you don't already have one.


----------



## simonsalsa

xabiaxica said:


> Yes, you can work as an EU citizen exercising treaty rights before you complete the paperwork - though if I were a school I'd be asking for proof at this point that you have started the application process.
> 
> 
> You can apply for a NIE seperately if you don't already have one.


Thanks for the quick reply. Is it a maximum of 90 days for work without any other documentation?

You mean apply for the TIE separately just to be clear..


----------



## Melosine

Catalunya22 said:


> Does anyone know how and where I can change an A4 white paper NIE number (issued by the Spanish Embassy in London) for an NIE issued on a card.
> 
> What documents are need..how much it costs etc...
> 
> I live in Barcelona.
> I went to apply for my TIE today but they wouldn´t let me do it because my NIE was on the A4 paper.......
> Can anyone URGENTLY advise on what I can do please?


Our NIE issued in Spain, 16 years ago, is on A4 white paper. It is your personal ID number.
That hasn’t changed and is put on all documents and bills. 
However for our GREEN card, soon to be TIE card, this is entirely different. To apply we had to sign on the foreigners register. Registering as residents. 
Number on the back of which is used by banks and tax office.
I believe, as xabiaxica says, you went to the wrong office.


----------



## simonsalsa

Opening a bank account.. on the internet it says I need a NIE/TIE. Can I open one in Spain with my passport, padron and proof of residence?


----------



## Melosine

You said you had an NIE number. 
That is your ID number. Something you cannot function without in Spain. and is what you have to use to open a bank account. 
Suggest you employ a gestor to sort your queries.


----------



## Mark s

*Official guide to brexit for uk citizens in Spain*

This is a guide of the q&a session for uk citizens residing in Spain regarding the withdrawal agreement and your rights.
It also gives instructions on how to apply for residency and appointments.

http://prensa.empleo.gob.es/WebPrensa/salamultimedia/documento_enlaces/covid/GUIA_BREXIT_ENG.pdf


----------



## simonsalsa

Melosine said:


> You said you had an NIE number.
> That is your ID number. Something you cannot function without in Spain. and is what you have to use to open a bank account.
> Suggest you employ a gestor to sort your queries.


Melosine - please read the posts carefully and don't say things about people when they aren't true. I appreciate you may be trying to help others and perhaps you are getting confused.

I have been very clear in my posts - I said I was applying for a TIE. I never said I had a NIE number. I have only posted a couple of times and I thought there might be a few friendly people on this forum.

Yes, I am trying to collect information and I am using a gestor already. This doesn't stop me asking questions on this forum!


----------



## Melosine

My error simonsalsa, it was Catalunya who mentioned his NIE on white paper. Sorry. 
Mistakes happen . Hardly a serious offence so fail to understand your aggressive response because am sure none of us are perfect.


----------



## robertodominicus

This is just what I've been looking for!!


----------



## simonsalsa

Melosine said:


> My error simonsalsa, it was Catalunya who mentioned his NIE on white paper. Sorry.
> Mistakes happen . Hardly a serious offence so fail to understand your aggressive response because am sure none of us are perfect.


Apology accepted. Thanks.

I am sure people have lots of questions right now and good to help as best we can!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

kaipa said:


> I only say that because I got a Facebook feed the other day which concerned uk immigration and a Spanish girl was complaining about how she was labelled an immigrant in the UK whereas Brits in Spain were labelled Expats. She was burnt immediately I might add!


 Foreigners living in permanently in Spain are immigrants according to the government, and that includes people from the UK.
Some people from the UK in Spain however, refer to themselves as expats even though we are immigrants.
I nearly didn't join this forum because of the name as personally I very much dislike the term expat, and I'm sure some people are put off by it. On the other hand I suppose some like it!


----------



## Pesky Wesky

simonsalsa said:


> Opening a bank account.. on the internet it says I need a NIE/TIE. Can I open one in Spain with my passport, padron and proof of residence?


I think you can open a non resident account, with the according charges with a passport.


----------



## xabiaxica

simonsalsa said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. Is it a maximum of 90 days for work without any other documentation?
> 
> You mean apply for the TIE separately just to be clear..


No I mean that you can apply just for a NIE - Número de Identidad de Extranjero, without a TIE - though you will still need to apply for a TIE.


As an EU citizen there is no limit on how long you are permitted to work - the requirement is to register as resident within 90 days - or with the new system to at least start the application since the card is no longer issued on the spot on the day of application.


----------



## Alcalaina

Here's the official British government Q&A document on UK nationals' rights, residency, applying for TIE etc. Mainly confirms what we already know but a useful summary nonetheless.

http://prensa.empleo.gob.es/WebPren...Zj3SWhKQvsjZR-ICuEt_8Dj9SvEKeEjRDpaThBX5Hr4Lk


----------



## simonsalsa

As things stand for me out of all the options in order to get my TIE I can get private health insurance in Spain or register as an autonomo. Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on my options? 

I am not working right now and in the current situation work probably won't materialise for a few months. But, I can support myself no problem.

I would like to get things moving because of the December deadline.


----------



## kaipa

simonsalsa said:


> As things stand for me out of all the options in order to get my TIE I can get private health insurance in Spain or register as an autonomo. Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on my options?
> 
> I am not working right now and in the current situation work probably won't materialise for a few months. But, I can support myself no problem.
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to get things moving because of the December deadline.



Autonomo will probably require a few months proof of legimitacy before they accept it for the simple reason you could register for autonomo one day ,the next go for residency and free healthcare, then cancel the autonomo a few days later


----------



## Megsmum

simonsalsa said:


> As things stand for me out of all the options in order to get my TIE I can get private health insurance in Spain or register as an autonomo. Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on my options?
> 
> I am not working right now and in the current situation work probably won't materialise for a few months. But, I can support myself no problem.
> 
> I would like to get things moving because of the December deadline.



As Kaipa says you’ll need to show proof of autónomo income. Also, to add, if you register as autónomo to get state healthcare and then cancel the autonomo after three months the free healthcare stops. 



kaipa said:


> Autonomo will probably require a few months proof of legimitacy before they accept it for the simple reason you could register for autonomo one day ,the next go for residency and free healthcare, then cancel the autonomo a few days later


----------



## simonsalsa

Thanks for the information and replies. It looks like I will try to find some private healthcare policy that is accepted in Spain. If anyone has suggestions or contacts then let me know.

I think if I could find a job that would kickstart everything but not a good time of year with the summer vacation and clock ticking.


----------



## Megsmum

simonsalsa said:


> Thanks for the information and replies. It looks like I will try to find some private healthcare policy that is accepted in Spain. If anyone has suggestions or contacts then let me know.
> 
> I think if I could find a job that would kickstart everything but not a good time of year with the summer vacation and clock ticking.


To be brutally honest, it has been years since it was good time in spain to find a job, with a contract that fulfils the residency criteria and with Covid, increasing unemployment, it’s only going to get a lot worse. Jobs are going to be as rare as hens teeth


----------



## simonsalsa

Megsmum said:


> To be brutally honest, it has been years since it was good time in spain to find a job, with a contract that fulfils the residency criteria and with Covid, increasing unemployment, it’s only going to get a lot worse. Jobs are going to be as rare as hens teeth


Yes, indeed. Thankfully, I am very well qualified and ready to go. Let's see what happens.. looking into the private healthcare policies now and there are a lot of choices, with some explicitly for residency.


----------



## kaipa

With the increasing number of outbreaks un spain people need to be aware that many regions if not all will have various restrictions imposed again ( phase 2) at any time. This could mean that local public offices are closed or appointments limited. Anyone who needs TIE really should try and do things as soon as possible as it very much looks like the virus, which is basically circulating slowly around Spain is starting to grow again. Today we are at nearly 400 new contagions a day whereas last week the number was small and focussed in a handful of areas. Today Madrid is starting to report outbreaks also in Barcelona.


----------



## simonsalsa

kaipa said:


> With the increasing number of outbreaks un spain people need to be aware that many regions if not all will have various restrictions imposed again ( phase 2) at any time. This could mean that local public offices are closed or appointments limited. Anyone who needs TIE really should try and do things as soon as possible as it very much looks like the virus, which is basically circulating slowly around Spain is starting to grow again. Today we are at nearly 400 new contagions a day whereas last week the number was small and focussed in a handful of areas. Today Madrid is starting to report outbreaks also in Barcelona.


Yes, let's see what we can do before Xmas!


----------



## kaipa

Ok I have heard from someone that if you have less than 5 years on your green card your TIE will be issued as temporary. Fair enough. However some people are saying that the issue date on the TIE is year zero and therefore officially you will need 5 years from this date for permanent. Admittedly this does seem to fit with the BOE which states the card can only be changed for permanent after 5 years. I have no idea if this is true and I cant see how it can be verified until someone has thd card. 
If it does have some legs then obviously dont apply for TIE before 5 years if you have already registered.


----------



## Williams2

kaipa said:


> Ok I have heard from someone that if you have less than 5 years on your green card your TIE will be issued as temporary. Fair enough. However some people are saying that the issue date on the TIE is year zero and therefore officially you will need 5 years from this date for permanent. Admittedly this does seem to fit with the BOE which states the card can only be changed for permanent after 5 years. I have no idea if this is true and I cant see how it can be verified until someone has thd card.
> If it does have some legs then obviously dont apply for TIE before 5 years if you have already registered.


If that is true ? then bearing in mind that the TIE is a fee bearing card, then why change your temporary
Green Resident card when you can wait ( while it's not obligatory to have a TIE ) as the temporary
Green Resident card holder could wait the full 5 years ( since 1st acquiring their Green card ) 
before going for the TIE and get the permanent TIE with the 10 year renewal date.
Thus only paying one fee instead of two fees and 2 appointments.

Although this assumes that the temporary Green Resident card holder doesn't change their permanent
address in the meantime.
In fact that's the only question with the waiver on British Green card resident holders not being obliged
to change to the TIE if they legally don't have to - is whether they can still hold onto their Green resident
cards after they change address, that is whether it's allowed to just fill in a change of address form at
the Foreigners Office and yet still retain their old Green Resident cards ?


----------



## Alcalaina

kaipa said:


> Ok I have heard from someone that if you have less than 5 years on your green card your TIE will be issued as temporary. Fair enough. However some people are saying that the issue date on the TIE is year zero and therefore officially you will need 5 years from this date for permanent. Admittedly this does seem to fit with the BOE which states the card can only be changed for permanent after 5 years. I have no idea if this is true and I cant see how it can be verified until someone has thd card.
> If it does have some legs then obviously dont apply for TIE before 5 years if you have already registered.


Check the original BOE. The TIE has an expiry date. If you've been resident for five years or less, it is valid for five years. If you've been resident for more than that, it is valid for ten years.

So yes, if you want a ten-year one, wait until you've been resident more than 5 years.


----------



## Megsmum

Alcalaina said:


> Check the original BOE. The TIE has an expiry date. If you've been resident for five years or less, it is valid for five years. If you've been resident for more than that, it is valid for ten years.
> 
> So yes, if you want a ten-year one, wait until you've been resident more than 5 years.


Has any information come out about what happens after the ten years? I’m not sure we will apply for one for a long time, if it’s not necessary as has been stated, whilst I would like one simply because, we already have permanent on our green cards, a driving licence for Identification, when and if the spanish government declares we MUST have one then we will do it. Kind of feel caught between a rock and a hard place, would be good to have one as it’s all done but wary if future requirements and end date and local interpretations!!

PS
20 days and counting.....


----------



## kaipa

Alcalaina said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok I have heard from someone that if you have less than 5 years on your green card your TIE will be issued as temporary. Fair enough. However some people are saying that the issue date on the TIE is year zero and therefore officially you will need 5 years from this date for permanent. Admittedly this does seem to fit with the BOE which states the card can only be changed for permanent after 5 years. I have no idea if this is true and I cant see how it can be verified until someone has thd card.
> If it does have some legs then obviously dont apply for TIE before 5 years if you have already registered.
> 
> 
> 
> Check the original BOE. The TIE has an expiry date. If you've been resident for five years or less, it is valid for five years. If you've been resident for more than that, it is valid for ten years.
> 
> So yes, if you want a ten-year one, wait until you've been resident more than 5 years.
Click to expand...

So the question is: if you dont have 5 years ( let's say only 4) when you apply for your TIE you will be given a 5 year TIE which will state that it's not permanent. You wont then be able to get a permanent for another 5 years! Now this is what is being said on another site. That the paper they have ( as they have handed in the green card) states its temporary not permanent and is dated from the start of the new TIE. Okay so nothing too serious for some but it does restrict your time you can be absent from spain and certain other rights. I think?


----------



## kaipa

Megsmum said:


> Alcalaina said:
> 
> 
> 
> Check the original BOE. The TIE has an expiry date. If you've been resident for five years or less, it is valid for five years. If you've been resident for more than that, it is valid for ten years.
> 
> So yes, if you want a ten-year one, wait until you've been resident more than 5 years.
> 
> 
> 
> Has any information come out about what happens after the ten years? I’m not sure we will apply for one for a long time, if it’s not necessary as has been stated, whilst I would like one simply because, we already have permanent on our green cards, a driving licence for Identification, when and if the spanish government declares we MUST have one then we will do it. Kind of feel caught between a rock and a hard place, would be good to have one as it’s all done but wary if future requirements and end date and local interpretations!!
> 
> PS
> 20 days and counting.....
Click to expand...

That's how I feel. If the card start date is not the same as your green card you could be stuck as a temporary resident for longer. This could affect things if other changes arise, ie healthcare, work rights, absences etc


----------



## Joppa

According to Spanish government FAQ on residence document for UK citizens, if you apply for TIE before you have lived for 5 years, you will get 5-year temporary card. Once you have been 5 years from the time you first registered (i.e. you got your first green sheet/paper card), you can exchange it for permanent card valid 10 years. As it's a photocard, it has to be renewed every 10 years. As stated, for many it makes sense to wait until you have been living 5 years before applying for new TIE.


----------



## Alcalaina

Megsmum said:


> Has any information come out about what happens after the ten years? I’m not sure we will apply for one for a long time, if it’s not necessary as has been stated, whilst I would like one simply because, we already have permanent on our green cards, a driving licence for Identification, when and if the spanish government declares we MUST have one then we will do it. Kind of feel caught between a rock and a hard place, would be good to have one as it’s all done but wary if future requirements and end date and local interpretations!!
> 
> PS
> 20 days and counting.....


I guess you just renew it with an up-to-date photograph?

I want one eventually, easier to carry round than a green A4 sheet. But 'm going to leave it a while till the funcionarios have had a bit of practice at it!


----------



## Glynb

*TIE - are Brits best to get this before the end of the transition period?*

We've had conflicting messages about the TIE. 

We have our green residencia card, which entitles us to stay in Spain as residents even after the end of the Brexit transition period (December 31st this year).

However, some Brits are now saying they've been told by Spanish officials we need to change the green paper card for a TIE card before the end of transition, or the process for doing so might become more tricky for Brits once 'fully out' the EU? 

Previously we thought you go for a TIE once five years on the paper green card have expired, no need to rush?

An views/ links to the facts on this matter? 

I might add we don't plan to return to the UK and would have gone for a TIE in due course anytway, but now it seems to play safe it's best to get one before transition period ends.


----------



## Overandout

As you have green certs with a date prior to the end of the year there is no additional rights to be had by changing to a TIE.

May they be more convenient? More likely to be recognized over time? Possibly. But legally different in terms of residency and working rights, no difference, nowt, zip, nada.


----------



## Williams2

Glynb said:


> We've had conflicting messages about the TIE.
> 
> We have our green residencia card, which entitles us to stay in Spain as residents even after the end of the Brexit transition period (December 31st this year).
> 
> However, some Brits are now saying they've been told by Spanish officials we need to change the green paper card for a TIE card before the end of transition, or the process for doing so might become more tricky for Brits once 'fully out' the EU?
> 
> Previously we thought you go for a TIE once five years on the paper green card have expired, no need to rush?
> 
> An views/ links to the facts on this matter?
> 
> I might add we don't plan to return to the UK and would have gone for a TIE in due course anytway, but now it seems to play safe it's best to get one before transition period ends.


The bottom line is so long as your legally resident in Spain and have the Paper Green Card already
then there's no rush to change it for a TIE - the Green Card thats served you well, will still be valid
next year as it's not obligatory to change it to the TIE. What's more there's no expiry date on
the Green Cards whereas with the TIE its like your driving license and becomes a fee bearing, time
limited license.
Maybe the only exception to this is if you change your permanent address in Spain.

Finally if Boris and the UK negotiating team 'drops a clanger' in the UK - EU trade talks then 'by rights'
it shouldn't affect us under the WA.

If by any chance it did ? then no matter whether you hold onto the Green Card or change it for a
TIE before the end of the year - we would all be up the Creek without a paddle !!


----------



## Glynb

Thanks Williams2, I hadn't seen your reply when I posted this - Ok, having dug further it seems Brits who apply for Residencia from July automatically have to get the TIE card as a standard part of the process. Those of us who applied earlier in the year just get the green paper 'residencia' card, but retain residency rights after the Transition period.

Still think it might be best strategy to apply for a TIE now though, in case of any political nonsense next year, especially if there's a 'no deal' situation.


----------



## Megsmum

Glynb said:


> Thanks Williams2, I hadn't seen your reply when I posted this - Ok, having dug further it seems Brits who apply for Residencia from July automatically have to get the TIE card as a standard part of the process. Those of us who applied earlier in the year just get the green paper 'residencia' card, but retain residency rights after the Transition period.
> 
> Still think it might be best strategy to apply for a TIE now though, in case of any political nonsense next year, especially if there's a 'no deal' situation.


Many have an alternative viewpoint as the new TIE cards have an expiry date o. Whereas our current cards do not. Personally speaking I’m waiting to see what the process is like across Spain, it’s not necessary and yes, the trade deal may go tits up But that should have no bearing on our rights, no more than any other situation having thr TIE will make no difference if things change IMHO


----------



## Williams2

Megsmum said:


> Many have an alternative viewpoint as the new TIE cards have an expiry date o. Whereas our current cards do not. Personally speaking I’m waiting to see what the process is like across Spain, it’s not necessary and yes, the trade deal may go tits up But that should have no bearing on our rights, no more than any other situation having thr TIE will make no difference if things change IMHO


Absolutely right as different Autonomous regions of Spain and the individual Foreigners office
within these regions will be becoming accustomed to the new procedures as regards
resident Brits and the change to the TIE in 2020 during the year.
I would say by 2021 it should be all done swiftly with little or no gaps or reappointments
and best of all no Transition period and no UK-EU Trade talk distractions in the background.

Who knows they might even have dotted the i's and crossed all the t's by then.


----------



## Joppa

Glynb said:


> Still think it might be best strategy to apply for a TIE now though, in case of any political nonsense next year, especially if there's a 'no deal' situation.


What we are talking about is right under the Withdrawal Agreement, which has been ratified by EU and UK and won't change even if there is 'no deal' at the end of the transition period. So even in case of 'no deal' exit, you still have your lifetime healthcare and annual pension uprating guaranteed as long as you remain a Spanish resident.


----------



## xabiaxica

Glynb said:


> We've had conflicting messages about the TIE.
> 
> We have our green residencia card, which entitles us to stay in Spain as residents even after the end of the Brexit transition period (December 31st this year).
> 
> However, some Brits are now saying they've been told by Spanish officials we need to change the green paper card for a TIE card before the end of transition, or the process for doing so might become more tricky for Brits once 'fully out' the EU?
> 
> Previously we thought you go for a TIE once five years on the paper green card have expired, no need to rush?
> 
> An views/ links to the facts on this matter?
> 
> I might add we don't plan to return to the UK and would have gone for a TIE in due course anytway, but now it seems to play safe it's best to get one before transition period ends.


It doesn't matter what an 'official' might have told anyone, it's VERY clear from the Spanish govt info that exchanging is entirely optional. 

It's in this Q&A https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/brexit/noticias/Documents/09072020_GuiaBrexit.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3oSUwymtVEzsO4mYT5awDYeU-ZiAjdRd-r4euVj5IY-3Dy4Xj6BOLExRU

That said, I do plan to change so that I have photo ID. I don't drive...


----------



## kaipa

Which Brits are saying they have been told?. Who in the Spanish authorities are saying it will be trickier in the future?


----------



## stevesainty

kaipa said:


> Which Brits are saying they have been told?. Who in the Spanish authorities are saying it will be trickier in the future?


Our Gestor told us in an email, obviously touting for business, and we are totally ignoring it.

Many gestors up and down the country will be doing the same, and unsure and confused British residents will take up their offers. it makes me very annoyed that these people, who are usually so helpful, are putting out misinformation, just to make a buck.


----------



## kaipa

stevesainty said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which Brits are saying they have been told?. Who in the Spanish authorities are saying it will be trickier in the future?
> 
> 
> 
> Our Gestor told us in an email, obviously touting for business, and we are totally ignoring it.
> 
> Many gestors up and down the country will be doing the same, and unsure and confused British residents will take up their offers. it makes me very annoyed that these people, who are usually so helpful, are putting out misinformation, just to make a buck.
Click to expand...

Well of course they will be looking business but as long as they are not telling you you need to get one I suppose it is nothing more than a selling point. If people go for it then there is no harm, however you yourself are kind of promoting it by also saying you think it's a good thing to do so you cant really blame the gestor they are just trying to make money out of our worries just like insurance companies.


----------



## stevesainty

kaipa said:


> Well of course they will be looking business but as long as they are not telling you you need to get one I suppose it is nothing more than a selling point. If people go for it then there is no harm, however you yourself are kind of promoting it by also saying you think it's a good thing to do so you cant really blame the gestor they are just trying to make money out of our worries just like insurance companies.


No Kaipa, the email was telling us we NEED to change, and we are ignoring it, we would rather stick with our non expiring green residencia.


----------



## kaipa

stevesainty said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well of course they will be looking business but as long as they are not telling you you need to get one I suppose it is nothing more than a selling point. If people go for it then there is no harm, however you yourself are kind of promoting it by also saying you think it's a good thing to do so you cant really blame the gestor they are just trying to make money out of our worries just like insurance companies.
> 
> 
> 
> No Kaipa, the email was telling us we NEED to change, and we are ignoring it, we would rather stick with our non expiring green residencia.
Click to expand...

If they are saying it's the law then they most definitely are wrong and you should point that out as I assume that amounts to misleading clients


----------



## stevesainty

kaipa said:


> If they are saying it's the law then they most definitely are wrong and you should point that out as I assume that amounts to misleading clients


When they have sorted out a mis filed tax return for me, I will tell them in no uncertain terms what I think of this shoddy practice, and then take my business elsewhere. Until then, I am using the maxim about changing horses in mid stream.

Other people of my acquintence using the same company have already registered their opinions.


----------



## Williams2

stevesainty said:


> When they have sorted out a mis filed tax return for me, I will tell them in no uncertain terms what I think of this shoddy practice, and then take my business elsewhere. Until then, I am using the maxim about changing horses in mid stream.
> 
> Other people of my acquintence using the same company have already registered their opinions.


True from what I've heard from other British Expats experience so far in Asturias, confusion and re-appointments
at other locations reign plus some appointments being cancelled due to worries about recent upsurges 
in C19 levels in other parts of Spain

So 2021 is looking a good year for them finally sorting the TIE, as it affects British Expats whereas for me
I'm hanging onto my tried and trusted Green card, as it enjoys such longevity compared to other
TIE cards.


----------



## Williams2

Still it will all be sorted out one day.


----------



## Miss Jones11

Sad about Gestors joining the parasite brigade, perhaps the word ‘’HONESTY’’ will be removed from the dictionary soon.

When I first arrived in Spain 12 years ago you needed photo ID at the supermarket and other places to use a credit/debit card, now they don’t seem to be bothered. Yes you might need your passport to get a mobile but you don’t usually buy one every week.

I keep a copy of my green residencia and every ITV, insurance policy and road tax receipts I have ever had in my car, one look at that lot by the Guardia and they say bye bye on your way.


----------



## xabiaxica

Williams2 said:


> True from what I've heard from other British Expats experience so far in Asturias, confusion and re-appointments
> at other locations reign plus some appointments being cancelled due to worries about recent upsurges
> in C19 levels in other parts of Spain
> 
> So 2021 is looking a good year for them finally sorting the TIE, as it affects British Expats whereas for me
> I'm hanging onto my tried and trusted Green card, as it enjoys such longevity compared to other
> TIE cards.


Everyone I'm in touch with has said that the 'swap' has been the most straightforward red tape that they have ever experienced in Spain - some have lived here 20 years or more.

No problems getting appointments, no confusion as to what is required. These are people who live all over the country. The same goes for first applications.

What is it about Asturias?!


----------



## Megsmum

xabiaxica said:


> Everyone I'm in touch with has said that the 'swap' has been the most straightforward red tape that they have ever experienced in Spain - some have lived here 20 years or more.
> 
> No problems getting appointments, no confusion as to what is required. These are people who live all over the country. The same goes for first applications.
> 
> What is it about Asturias?!


Glad to hear that. I’m not so confident as I’m sure it does depend where you are, as I said before, when we got out permanent card last year we had to fulfil the income requirements etc all over again. I fear it will be the same with this, which means unless I do not have to I won’t bother, unless I can find clear government instructions stating otherwise!


----------



## Miss Jones11

Why bother if the green A4 is fully valid. Is it like must have the latest IPhone?


----------



## MataMata

I think you can be pretty sure that at some point the exchange of a green residency card for a TIE will become obligatory.

Also for those with less than 5 years residency although it might bear no expiry date the green card is essentially a temporary document and a stepping stone to permanent residency.


----------



## stevesainty

MataMata said:


> I think you can be pretty sure that at some point the exchange of a green residency card for a TIE will become obligatory.
> 
> Also for those with less than 5 years residency although it might bear no expiry date the green card is essentially a temporary document and a stepping stone to permanent residency.


Once you have had the green card/A4 sheet for 5 years, it automatically reverts to a permanent one, with no expiry date. So no it is not a stepping stone to a permanent residency; it is a residency that becomes permanent after 5 years, without having to change anything.


----------



## Miss Jones11

MataMata said:


> I think you can be pretty sure that at some point the exchange of a green residency card for a TIE will become obligatory.
> 
> Also for those with less than 5 years residency although it might bear no expiry date the green card is essentially a temporary document and a stepping stone to permanent residency.


Where are you getting this information from? Do you have a government link?:confused2:


----------



## Love Karma

MataMata said:


> I think you can be pretty sure that at some point the exchange of a green residency card for a TIE will become obligatory.
> .


Why? Nothing the Spanish Government have said indicates this, in fact quite the opposite.


----------



## kaipa

The green card/TIE is simply a document. Your details are kept obviously. The green card is not a temporary card. Its not even an identity card. It's basically a piece of paper that allows a person to find your address and NIE / tax code. Its indefinite, meaning it lasts forever. You automatically get permanent residency after 5 years but you do not need to have any document proving that as it can be easily retrieved by police/authorities. So absolutely nothing needs to be done unless you wish to get a TIE.


----------



## Williams2

xabiaxica said:


> Everyone I'm in touch with has said that the 'swap' has been the most straightforward red tape that they have ever experienced in Spain - some have lived here 20 years or more.
> 
> No problems getting appointments, no confusion as to what is required. These are people who live all over the country. The same goes for first applications.
> 
> What is it about Asturias?!


Who knows maybe they are still trying to get their act together but doesn't bother me one jot.


----------



## Williams2

Miss Jones11 said:


> Why bother if the green A4 is fully valid. Is it like must have the latest IPhone?


Agree many drivers in the UK hung onto their Paper driving licenses instead of changing them for the
new Credit Card size UK driving license, as the same applies - both the Paper driving license
and the new UK Credit Card were both legal and the only obligation to change the Paper one for the
Credit card size one is if you changed your permanent address in the UK.

Otherwise you could hold onto the Paper one for years while they were ( are ? ) still legal in the UK
as the paper one had no expiry date ( other than your 65th birthday ?) & no fee incurred.


----------



## Miss Jones11

Williams2 said:


> Agree many drivers in the UK hung onto their Paper driving licenses instead of changing them for the
> new Credit Card size UK driving license, as the same applies - both the Paper driving license
> and the new UK Credit Card were both legal and the only obligation to change the Paper one for the
> Credit card size one is if you changed your permanent address in the UK.
> 
> Otherwise you could hold onto the Paper one for years while they were ( are ? ) still legal in the UK
> as the paper one had no expiry date ( other than your 65th birthday ?) & no fee incurred.


Would you please clarify.

This is ‘’Spain Expat Forum for Expats Living in Spain’’. The thread is ‘’ TIE - are Brits best to get this before the end of the transition period?’’

Are you saying that if a expat resident has a UK credit card size driving licence they will be exempt from obtaining any Spanish resident documents? Or are you confused as to which country you are in?

No offence intended, it just all sounds nonsense.


----------



## Joppa

The poster is just drawing a parallel between what happened when UK introduced photo driving licence. Paper licence remained valid and there was no obligation to change. It is implied that the situation is very similar with what is happening in Spain with regard to TIE for British nationals and existing green residence document.


----------



## Megsmum

Deleted


----------



## Melosine

kaipa said:


> The green card/TIE is simply a document. Your details are kept obviously. The green card is not a temporary card. Its not even an identity card. It's basically a piece of paper that allows a person to find your address and NIE / tax code. Its indefinite, meaning it lasts forever. You automatically get permanent residency after 5 years but you do not need to have any document proving that as it can be easily retrieved by police/authorities. So absolutely nothing needs to be done unless you wish to get a TIE.


I believe that for many long time residents in Spain, not referring to anyone on this forum, this is the first time they have registered. Thus stating they will change their “ imaginary “ green card for TIE, which even Spanish government minister has stated is unnecessary.
Know many folk here who insist they are doubly totally legal when the opposite is nearer the truth.


----------



## xabiaxica

Melosine said:


> I believe that for many long time residents in Spain, not referring to anyone on this forum, this is the first time they have registered. Thus stating they will change their “ imaginary “ green card for TIE, which even Spanish government minister has stated is unnecessary.
> *Know many folk here who insist they are doubly totally legal when the opposite is nearer the truth*.


Yes, that's the thing isn't it? 

If they don't even have a green card/cert though, they will come unstuck the first time they try to get 'home' to Spain next year after a visit to the doctor/optician/dentist/grandkids in the UK.


----------



## Megsmum

xabiaxica said:


> Yes, that's the thing isn't it?
> 
> If they don't even have a green card/cert though, they will come unstuck the first time they try to get 'home' to Spain next year after a visit to the doctor/optician/dentist/grandkids in the UK.


Expect they’ll all be bitching about the processes when they find they’re stuck between a rock and a hard place. I have more sympathy for those trying to fulfil there ambitions before end of year for the first time than those who have happily lived under the radar, I’m not sure they’ll be missed.


----------



## Glynb

xabiaxica said:


> Yes, that's the thing isn't it?
> 
> If they don't even have a green card/cert though, they will come unstuck the first time they try to get 'home' to Spain next year after a visit to the doctor/optician/dentist/grandkids in the UK.


With the scanning of passports on entry it will be easy for the Spanish authorities to know how long Brits have been in/out of the country. If they enforce the rules (they might turn a blind eye?), I don't see how the 'living under the radar' thing will work in future for Brits who spend most of their time here but want to travel to the UK regularly. Hence the rush to get Residencia as people realise this.

To return to the OP...I understand all Brits applying for Residencia from July have to get a TIE as part of the process. (We applied in January and didn't have to) 

From this I suspect that in due course all Brits will be expected to have a TIE, otherwise why make only new/late applicants get one? Why not just continue with the green paper? 

So although it might not be necessary now for people like me with the 'green card' we might just bite the bullet and get one anyway in anticipation that it becomes mandatory later, then it's done with. 

Thanks to those who clarified that under the Withdrawal Agreement the rights of Residency are exactly the same, whether you have the TIE or green paper to show.


----------



## Overandout

Glynb said:


> From this I suspect that in due course all Brits will be expected to have a TIE, otherwise why make only new/late applicants get one? Why not just continue with the green paper?


Because the green paper is a registration certificate for EU citizens, anyone coming into Spain from UK after Brexit is not an EU citizen and therefore can't register as one.

Under the WA, those of us who are already registered can remain registered, hence we can keep the green certificate.

There is no need to change from a green certificate to a TIE.

"Brits" (how I hate that word) will not be expected to have a TIE by any official who knows the legal situation.


----------



## kaipa

Let's just get thd facts straight ( again) : if you are legally registered then you don't have to do anything. You will not be asked to show a TIE at passport control and it will not give you any advantage in this area. Some people seem to think they will not need to queue with holiday makers but they will. Secondly saying it will be mandatory is just speculation
Thirdly, although not confirmed, its believed the date of issue on your card will be from 2020 so those with 4 years prior might find that they wont get a permanent card for 9 years in all.


----------



## xabiaxica

kaipa said:


> Let's just get thd facts straight ( again) : if you are legally registered then you don't have to do anything. You will not be asked to show a TIE at passport control and it will not give you any advantage in this area. Some people seem to think they will not need to queue with holiday makers but they will. Secondly saying it will be mandatory is just speculation
> Thirdly, although not confirmed, its believed the date of issue on your card will be from 2020 so those with 4 years prior might find that they wont get a permanent card for 9 years in all.


The card is issued with this year's date - but your original registration date is still on record. 

Therefore if you originally registered in 2016, you will be able to change for a 'permanente' next year.


----------



## kaipa

Are you sure? I thought the card had a five year period for temporary residence and permanent 10. If the card is meant to demonstrate hos long you have lived in spain then why not use your real start date?


----------



## Williams2

Miss Jones11 said:


> Would you please clarify.
> 
> This is ‘’Spain Expat Forum for Expats Living in Spain’’. The thread is ‘’ TIE - are Brits best to get this before the end of the transition period?’’
> 
> Are you saying that if a expat resident has a UK credit card size driving licence they will be exempt from obtaining any Spanish resident documents? Or are you confused as to which country you are in?
> 
> No offence intended, it just all sounds nonsense.


No BUT as Clearly stated it's just a comparison, Green Resident card ( perfectly legal no obligation to change to the TIE )
with UK Paper Driving licince ( perfectly legal no obligation to change to the Credit Card size UK driving ) many 
British Expats ( of a certain age ) living in Spain will instantly recognise the comparison.
So I assume you either never lived in the UK or never had a UK Paper driving license ? in the past.

No doubt as we continue our journey through life - we will come across other examples where official
documents change BUT it's no obligatory to change your existing document for a new one as
the old one will still be accepted and remain perfectly legal.


----------



## Joppa

kaipa said:


> Thirdly, although not confirmed, its believed the date of issue on your card will be from 2020 so those with 4 years prior might find that they wont get a permanent card for 9 years in all.


That is not so. Once you have been in Spain for 5 years, you can apply for permanent document.

'Once I have a temporary residence document that identifies me as a beneficiary of the Withdrawal Agreement, I have reached 5 years of legal residence in Spain before the document expires. Can I apply for the permanent residence document?

Yes. Those persons who have reached 5 years of legal residence in Spain may access permanent residence (as established in Article 15 of the Withdrawal Agreement) before the validity of the residence document issued expires. If you started with a registration certificate or family member card of a Union citizen, you may request the issuance of a new residence document from the police departments that are authorized to issue it after verifying the duration of residence. If, on the other hand, you did not have such a previous certificate or card, the application will be addressed to the Immigration office in the place where you reside (Oficina de Extranjería), which, after assessing the application and if it is approved, will allow you to apply for the issue of the document. This new residence document will be valid for 10 years and the term "Permanent" will be entered in the field corresponding to the Type of Permit.'
https://www.machelindiaz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/GUIA_BREXIT_ENG.pdf page 36
(link to official government site broken)

I suggest if you are close to attaining 5 years in Spain, you wait until you have been for the required number of years before applying for TIE, just to avoid extra procedure involved.


----------



## Williams2

*A British Expat objects to being fingerprinted for the TIE*

A British Expat I enjoy Coffee with walked out of his Extranjeria appointment to change his resident
Green Card for the new TIE because he objects to being fingerprinted.

Is it mandatory to give your fingerprint for the new TIE ?


----------



## xabiaxica

Williams2 said:


> A British Expat I enjoy Coffee with walked out of his Extranjeria appointment to change his resident
> Green Card for the new TIE because he objects to being fingerprinted.
> 
> Is it mandatory to give your fingerprint for the new TIE ?


Yes.


----------



## Joppa

Yes, as it's a biometric document.


----------



## Williams2

Joppa said:


> Yes, as it's a biometric document.


He moaned because in his mind he associates the taking of fingerprints with criminals who
have to give their fingerprints because they have commited a criminal offence.

He also spent some time in Spain during the Franco era and still holds suspicions on 
Spanish government actions with how he viewed Spain back then. 

My apologies to Miss Jones for the next sentence but it is a moot point:
In fact as I recall one of the objections many people in the UK had against the
British Government introducing id cards in the UK ( some years ago ) was because people
objected to being fingerprinted and as a result being traced & spied upon like citizens in
the former East Germany.


----------



## xabiaxica

kaipa said:


> Are you sure? I thought the card had a five year period for temporary residence and permanent 10. If the card is meant to demonstrate hos long you have lived in spain then why not use your real start date?


Yes I'm sure.

The date on the card is simply the date of issue.


----------



## Alcalaina

kaipa said:


> Are you sure? I thought the card had a five year period for temporary residence and permanent 10. If the card is meant to demonstrate hos long you have lived in spain then why not use your real start date?


I don’t think that’s what the card is primarily meant to demonstrate - it’s to show you are who you say you are.


----------



## xabiaxica

*PLEASE *everyone use the quote button so that we know to whom your comment is addressed!


----------



## xabiaxica

Alcalaina said:


> I don’t think that’s what the card is primarily meant to demonstrate - it’s to show you are who you say you are.


Yep - it's an ID card.


----------



## Love Karma

xabiaxica said:


> Yep - it's an ID card.


But cannot be used in many official situations such as opening a bank account.


----------



## xabiaxica

Love Karma said:


> But cannot be used in many official situations such as opening a bank account.


That would be a decision for the bank. 

As a biometric card - with fingerprints on record - it arguably is better ID than a British passport, for instance.


----------



## Alcalaina

Love Karma said:


> But cannot be used in many official situations such as opening a bank account.


Do you know that from experience? What do non-EU residents have to present when opening a bank account if not their TIE?


----------



## Love Karma

xabiaxica said:


> That would be a decision for the bank.
> 
> As a biometric card - with fingerprints on record - it arguably is better ID than a British passport, for instance.


My Canadian neighbour tried several banks whilst waiting for his renewed passport to arrive and they all insisted on his passport. 
Of course you may be correct but I know if I was in dire straights somewhere, I know which document I'd feel more comfortable with in my back pocket and it wouldn't be the TIE.


----------



## Love Karma

Alcalaina said:


> Do you know that from experience? What do non-EU residents have to present when opening a bank account if not their TIE?


As in other post a passport was requested as the ultimate proof of ID, do you know different?


----------



## Alcalaina

Love Karma said:


> As in other post a passport was requested as the ultimate proof of ID, do you know different?


No, I was just curious. 

I know non-residents need a passport to open an account, but residents just need a DNI/NIE plus proof of address. Though I suppose different banks might want additional documentation.



> ¿Cuáles son los requisitos para abrir una cuenta bancaria?
> 
> Cualquier persona física o jurídica que quiera solicitar la apertura de una cuenta bancaria necesitará cumplir una serie de requisitos y presentar lo que exija la entidad financiera donde se desee abrir la cuenta:
> 
> 
> Documento Nacional de Indentidad (DNI) o la tarjeta de residente (NIE) del titular o titulares (en caso de que sean varios)
> Justificante de domicilio
> En algunos casos el banco podría pedir la última nómina, la declaración de la Renta o un contrato laboral.


https://www.kelisto.es/cuentas-bancarias/consejos-y-analisis/como-abrir-cuentas-bancarias-6140


----------



## Williams2

Williams2 said:


> He moaned because in his mind he associates the taking of fingerprints with criminals who
> have to give their fingerprints because they have commited a criminal offence.
> 
> He also spent some time in Spain during the Franco era and still holds suspicions on
> Spanish government actions with how he viewed Spain back then.
> 
> My apologies to Miss Jones for the next sentence but it is a moot point:
> *In fact as I recall one of the objections many people in the UK had against the
> British Government introducing id cards in the UK ( some years ago ) was because people
> objected to being fingerprinted* and as a result being traced & spied upon like citizens in
> the former East Germany.


As you all prefer posters to include the link about any arguements including this one against id cards
( as the TIE is a more intrusive id card ) and British objections on the grounds of their civil liberties
and human rights - here it is:

Wiki - The UK Identities Card Act 2006 that was repealed in 2010

Of course the arguements for and against id cards have been going on for years, particulary
with governments being keen to use it to trace suspected terrorists and cyber crime.


----------



## Alcalaina

Do Spanish DNI cards have fingerprints?


----------



## Joppa

Alcalaina said:


> Do Spanish DNI cards have fingerprints?


They used to but not on recent ones. TIE for non-EU citizens carries thumb fingerprint, on the reverse.


----------



## Glynb

Alcalaina said:


> I don’t think that’s what the card is primarily meant to demonstrate - it’s to show you are who you say you are.


I'm getting confused now. Leaving aside the date of issue, surely the primary purpose of the TIE is to show the holder is a Resident of Spain, as does the 'green 'card/paper' ?


----------



## Megsmum

Glynb said:


> I'm getting confused now. Leaving aside the date of issue, surely the primary purpose of the TIE is to show the holder is a Resident of Spain, as does the 'green 'card/paper' ?


Yes, by stating who you are and that you are who you say you are


----------



## Alcalaina

Megsmum said:


> Yes, by stating who you are and that you are who you say you are


Which the green card/certificate doesn't really do, which is why it needs to be backed up with a passport for so many official purposes.

I¡m looking forward to having a proper ID card that I can keep with me at all times and not having to worry about remembering to take my passport and/or the original green A4 sheet (which is now getting a bit dog-eared) for things like changing a mobile phone contract. Giving a thumbprint and having the photo updated every ten years doesn't worry me at all (I'll probably only have to do that once anyway!)


----------



## Joppa

Megsmum said:


> Yes, by stating who you are and that you are who you say you are


And crucially, you are the beneficiary of the withdrawal agreement with life-time right to live, work and healthcare, compared to other third-country nationals' TIE.


----------



## Glynb

Joppa said:


> And crucially, you are the beneficiary of the withdrawal agreement with life-time right to live, work and healthcare, compared to other third-country nationals' TIE.


Healthcare? Only for state pensioners surely? We're not yet of retirement age and not entitled to an S1. To get Residencia we had to take out private health insurance (we are early retirees).

After 1 year I understand we can apply to join the Convenio Especial, which means we pay in around 60 euros a month to be in the equivalent of the Spanish National Health system. Damn sight cheeper than private health insurance, which also excludes many pre-existing conditions! Taking our private health care has been a real eye opener, so crap and poor value compared with the NHS.


----------



## Joppa

When you reach the UK state pension age (soon to be 66), if you are the beneficiary of the WA, you can apply for S1 which will give you lifetime cover under the Spanish national health scheme free of charge. Until you reach that age, yes, you have to be covered privately or by CE.


----------



## Melosine

Alcalaina said:


> Which the green card/certificate doesn't really do, which is why it needs to be backed up with a passport for so many official purposes.
> 
> I¡m looking forward to having a proper ID card that I can keep with me at all times and not having to worry about remembering to take my passport and/or the original green A4 sheet (which is now getting a bit dog-eared) for things like changing a mobile phone contract. Giving a thumbprint and having the photo updated every ten years doesn't worry me at all (I'll probably only have to do that once anyway!)


I keep my small green ( only thing bank needed to see) in a card wallet with SIP, Spanish DL and bank cards. In 14 years only ever had to show passport once , for Padron purposes and the fact it had run out wasn’t a problem to anyone. ‘Cos it’s the number that is important.
Not all Spanish people have passports. Just NIF numbers, licences and bank cards SO my question is...if a holder of a green card stating permanent residente, plus photo ID from driving licence why the need to carry ones passport.


----------



## Lynn R

I'm surprised if banks haven't needed to see a passport, because I well remember the kerfuffle (and the threads about it on this forum) when people were contacted by their banks a couple of years ago (could be longer, can't quite remember) and had to supply digitalised copies of certain information which definitely included their passport. Some people who didn't comply by a certain date had their accounts frozen until the requirements were met.


----------



## Alcalaina

Lynn R said:


> I'm surprised if banks haven't needed to see a passport, because I well remember the kerfuffle (and the threads about it on this forum) when people were contacted by their banks a couple of years ago (could be longer, can't quite remember) and had to supply digitalised copies of certain information which definitely included their passport. Some people who didn't comply by a certain date had their accounts frozen until the requirements were met.


They were non-resident though, weren't they?


----------



## Alcalaina

Melosine said:


> I keep my small green ( only thing bank needed to see) in a card wallet with SIP, Spanish DL and bank cards. In 14 years only ever had to show passport once , for Padron purposes and the fact it had run out wasn’t a problem to anyone. ‘Cos it’s the number that is important.
> Not all Spanish people have passports. Just NIF numbers, licences and bank cards SO my question is...if a holder of a green card stating permanent residente, plus photo ID from driving licence why the need to carry ones passport.


Not everyone has a green card, some of us have an A4 sheet. And not everyone has a driving licence; besides, some agencies won't accept it as photo ID. Don't ask why, that's Spanish bureaucracy for you - whatever you don't happen to have with you is what they specifically need to make three photocopies of!


----------



## Williams2

Joppa said:


> They used to but not on recent ones. TIE for non-EU citizens carries thumb fingerprint, on the reverse.


Well that's interesting, so no fingerprints required for the DNI but obligatory for the TIE - maybe because
were real foreigners and likely subversives whereas Green card holders are one of us ( EU ) and are 
unlikely to be subversives ?


----------



## Love Karma

Alcalaina said:


> They were non-resident though, weren't they?


Nope, I had to do mine with both my banks and I've been with them from day one and been resident for 22 years


----------



## Lynn R

Alcalaina said:


> They were non-resident though, weren't they?


I had to supply mine, and I was resident. I also had to provide a copy of my passport to my new bank when I changed my account, as well as my green "residencia" card.


----------



## Melosine

Alcalaina said:


> Not everyone has a green card, some of us have an A4 sheet. And not everyone has a driving licence; besides, some agencies won't accept it as photo ID. Don't ask why, that's Spanish bureaucracy for you - whatever you don't happen to have with you is what they specifically need to make three photocopies of!


Green card or sheet if it has permanent resident on it then there is no difference.
Very few people living here don’t drive, appreciate that, however lots we know who do but still haven’t transferred to a Spanish licence. Why? 
If some agencies won’t accept a DL as photo ID then surely the passport is of no purpose at all because passports contain nothing about the person at all.


----------



## Melosine

A question. Where banks are concerned is a resident the same as a tax resident? Not all people who live here permanently are both.


----------



## Alcalaina

Lynn R said:


> I had to supply mine, and I was resident. I also had to provide a copy of my passport to my new bank when I changed my account, as well as my green "residencia" card.


Yes so did I, but perhaps with a TIE it won't be necessary. Who knows. According to various sites I looked at, Spanish citizens with a DNI don't need a passport to open an account.


----------



## Megsmum

Had to supply passport when first resident and every two years we have to take it in!

I think it’s indicative of Spain in general , where, who when will depend on where what how!


----------



## Lynn R

Alcalaina said:


> Yes so did I, but perhaps with a TIE it won't be necessary. Who knows. According to various sites I looked at, Spanish citizens with a DNI don't need a passport to open an account.


Yes, maybe. A DNI counts as official proof of ID, doesn't it, whereas for us as UK citizens a passport is the only thing that does.


----------



## Mforster

Megsmum said:


> Had to supply passport when first resident and every two years we have to take it in!
> 
> I think it’s indicative of Spain in general , where, who when will depend on where what how!


So true! I'm trying to change mobile provider.....latest attempt a couple of days ago, I thought I had every piece of information necessary, but no, they wanted a certificate from the bank to confirm that I am the account holder and have enough on the account.....it does all depend on who you speak to, when, where, what and how.....I'll give it a week and then try again


----------



## Williams2

Mforster said:


> So true! I'm trying to change mobile provider.....latest attempt a couple of days ago, I thought I had every piece of information necessary, but no, they wanted a certificate from the bank to confirm that I am the account holder and have enough on the account.....it does all depend on who you speak to, when, where, what and how.....I'll give it a week and then try again


When I arrived in Spain and looked for a moble service provider, Vodafone.es were only
interested in new customers who could prove their current bank balances and the way
they manage their income and expenditure by a Spanish bank account book. That is the 
very same bank account books that you see people feeding into their Banks ATM machine 
and prints all their transactions on the book since they last visited an ATM machine; that
tends to take a bit of time and leaves others waiting their turn for the ATM.

They were not interested in any new customers with only online accounts back then.


----------



## Glynb

Alcalaina said:


> Nwhatever you don't happen to have with you is what they specifically need to make three photocopies of!


 It does seem to vary depending on the functionary/office to interact with. There's a fabulous video on Youtube of a woman 'doing battle' with a Spanish bureaucrat.


----------



## Glynb

Joppa said:


> When you reach the UK state pension age (soon to be 66), if you are the beneficiary of the WA, you can apply for S1 which will give you lifetime cover under the Spanish national health scheme free of charge. Until you reach that age, yes, you have to be covered privately or by CE.


I have a few years to go yet, I won't get my state pension/S1 until I'm 67.

For any that don't know about it...
After 1 year of official residency (if you are not a worker or a state pensioner) you can apply to join the Spanish state health system via something called the 'Convenio Especial' and a monthly charge. It works out much cheeper than private insurance for those under pensionable age, and it covers all health issues whether pre-existing or not, so much better in my opinion.

We're waiting until our first year of residency is nearly completed, then we'll be going to the health centre in Alicante to try to do battle with a bureaucrat and hopefully get signed up. Then it's about 65 euro a month. It doesn't cover medications, but currently I don't need any regularly, but then neither does my private insurance.

Just hope the Spanish don't scrap it for Brits before I manage to get signed up.


----------



## Alcalaina

Glynb said:


> Just hope the Spanish don't scrap it for Brits before I manage to get signed up.


They won't. It's there for any resident who doesn't qualify for free cover, regardless of nationality. Andalucia scrapped it briefly when they introduced universal free healthcare, but then the Andalusian government changed colour and reintroduced it.


----------



## Catalunya22

Glynb said:


> It does seem to vary depending on the functionary/office to interact with. There's a fabulous video on Youtube of a woman 'doing battle' with a Spanish bureaucrat. https://youtu.be/2wtbQUaC9mE


Brilliant....
As someone said on this Forum or another one....You can take a mountain of forms with you...but they always want 3 photocopies of the one piece of paper you don´t have.


----------



## kaipa

Alcalaina said:


> Glynb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just hope the Spanish don't scrap it for Brits before I manage to get signed up.
> 
> 
> 
> They won't. It's there for any resident who doesn't qualify for free cover, regardless of nationality. Andalucia scrapped it briefly when they introduced universal free healthcare, but then the Andalusian government changed colour and reintroduced it.
Click to expand...

Yes I remember all the stuff with the so called free healthcare care. We were being advised to print out the decreto and wave in under the nose of funcinarios. For some reason a law that was intended for undocumented immigrants became the right of angry retired foreigners. So what happened to all the people on convenios who said they no longer had to pay. Do they get healthcare free or was the convenio bought back?


----------



## Alcalaina

kaipa said:


> . So what happened to all the people on convenios who said they no longer had to pay. Do they get healthcare free or was the convenio bought back?


I know someone who was in that situation. She wasn't expecting free healthcare and was pleasantly surprised when the direct debits stopped suddenly. I don't know whether they reintroduced the charge, I don't think so but I'll ask her next time I see her.


----------



## Mforster

Williams2 said:


> When I arrived in Spain and looked for a moble service provider, Vodafone.es were only
> interested in new customers who could prove their current bank balances and the way
> they manage their income and expenditure by a Spanish bank account book. That is the
> very same bank account books that you see people feeding into their Banks ATM machine
> and prints all their transactions on the book since they last visited an ATM machine; that
> tends to take a bit of time and leaves others waiting their turn for the ATM.
> 
> They were not interested in any new customers with only online accounts back then.


Not much changed then! 1 step forward, 2 steps back. Amazing how reliant they are/want to be on pieces of paper. Anyway, in my experience it really depends who are dealing with and what that person knows or feels comfortable with.:juggle:


----------



## membawa

Went to apply for my TIE today at Alicante. The only document I needed that wasn't on the list on the website was a photocopy of my passport (on the website it just says passport, doesn't say copy, so I naively assumed they would just look at the original or something).

Luckily they let me make a copy at the garage around the corner and everything else went smoothly. They said it will be ready to pick up in 3 weeks (at a different oficina de extranjería in Alicante) and gave me a number to call beforehand. 

Apparently you have to go and pick it up within 45 days; after that the justificante supposedly expires. The justificante letter also says the card will be valid for 5 years.


----------



## snikpoh

membawa said:


> Went to apply for my TIE today at Alicante. The only document I needed that wasn't on the list on the website was a photocopy of my passport (on the website it just says passport, doesn't say copy, so I naively assumed they would just look at the original or something).
> 
> Luckily they let me make a copy at the garage around the corner and everything else went smoothly. They said it will be ready to pick up in 3 weeks (at a different oficina de extranjería in Alicante) and gave me a number to call beforehand.
> 
> Apparently you have to go and pick it up within 45 days; after that the justificante supposedly expires. The justificante letter also says the card will be valid for 5 years.



Was this a completely new application rather than an exchange?


----------



## kaipa

snikpoh said:


> membawa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Went to apply for my TIE today at Alicante. The only document I needed that wasn't on the list on the website was a photocopy of my passport (on the website it just says passport, doesn't say copy, so I naively assumed they would just look at the original or something).
> 
> Luckily they let me make a copy at the garage around the corner and everything else went smoothly. They said it will be ready to pick up in 3 weeks (at a different oficina de extranjería in Alicante) and gave me a number to call beforehand.
> 
> Apparently you have to go and pick it up within 45 days; after that the justificante supposedly expires. The justificante letter also says the card will be valid for 5 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was this a completely new application rather than an exchange?
Click to expand...

I imagine it's an exchange given the lack of documents. 5 years could mean that the poster already has a number of years but not the 5 required for the permanent card


----------



## Megsmum

It’s the valid until date which I do not like TBH


----------



## kaipa

Megsmum said:


> It’s the valid until date which I do not like TBH


I have brought this up earlier. I thought that it meant a kind of year zero meaning they wont actually issue you with a permanent until 5 years irrespective of years you may have accumulated prior to. Some posters assure this is not the case but I am not sure that it is definitely addressed in the official decreto


----------



## membawa

snikpoh said:


> Was this a completely new application rather than an exchange?


I already had a green NIE card, if that's what you mean. I didn't have to surrender it or anything, though (or not yet anyway, perhaps when I pick up the TIE?).

I got my white NIE paper in 2014 and have been living and working in Spain since then, but I only got round to getting my green NIE in 2017, so it appears that I've only been resident in Spain since then. I guess that's why it's only valid for 5 years.


----------



## kaipa

membawa said:


> snikpoh said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was this a completely new application rather than an exchange?
> 
> 
> 
> I already had a green NIE card, if that's what you mean. I didn't have to surrender it or anything, though (or not yet anyway, perhaps when I pick up the TIE?).
> 
> 
> I got my white NIE paper in 2014 and have been living and working in Spain since then, but I only got round to getting my green NIE in 2017, so it appears that I've only been resident in Spain since then. I guess that's why it's only valid for 5 years.
Click to expand...

So you seem to be saying that you got a NIE ( a number) in 2014 but didn't apply for residency for another three years. ? I guess ( though it was strictly illegal) its possible without detection in that you wouldn't need to use a green card to get a job, just a NIE, and healthcare would come through SS contributions. Fair enough. 
However, it looks like you are saying that it will be 5 years as of the start date on card before you get permanent residence.


----------



## Joppa

As I have quoted before, this is what the official Spanish Government document says:

'Once I have a temporary residence document that identifies me as a beneficiary of the Withdrawal Agreement, I have reached 5 years of legal residence in Spain before the document expires. Can I apply for the permanent residence document?

Yes. Those persons who have reached 5 years of legal residence in Spain may access permanent residence (as established in Article 15 of the Withdrawal Agreement) *before the validity of the residence document issued expires.*
If you started with a registration certificate or family member card of a Union citizen, you may request the issuance of a new residence document from the police departments that are authorized to issue it after verifying the duration of residence.
If, on the other hand, you did not have such a previous certificate or card, the application will be addressed to the Immigration office in the place where you reside (Oficina de Extranjería), which, after assessing the application and if it is approved, will allow you to apply for the issue of the document.
This new residence document will be valid for 10 years and the term "Permanent" will be entered in the field corresponding to the Type of Permit.'
https://www.machelindiaz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/GUIA_BREXIT_ENG.pdf


----------



## membawa

kaipa said:


> So you seem to be saying that you got a NIE ( a number) in 2014 but didn't apply for residency for another three years. ? I guess ( though it was strictly illegal) its possible without detection in that you wouldn't need to use a green card to get a job, just a NIE, and healthcare would come through SS contributions. Fair enough.
> 
> However, it looks like you are saying that it will be 5 years as of the start date on card before you get permanent residence.


It seems that way, yes, I may be wrong though--it says on my confirmation letter that the card will state 'TEMPORAL. NACIONAL DE REINO UNIDO' and that it will be valid for 5 years. Unless maybe I can exchange it for a permanent one before that 5 years is up.

Edit: I have just read Joppa's post which seems to be consistent with that.


----------



## xabiaxica

membawa said:


> It seems that way, yes, I may be wrong though--it says on my confirmation letter that the card will state 'TEMPORAL. NACIONAL DE REINO UNIDO' and that it will be valid for 5 years. Unless maybe I can exchange it for a permanent one before that 5 years is up.
> 
> Edit: I have just read Joppa's post which seems to be consistent with that.


If you registered in 2017, you will be able to exchange for a 'permanent' TIE five years from that date, in 2022.


----------



## Williams2

membawa said:


> It seems that way, yes, I may be wrong though--it says on my confirmation letter that the card will state 'TEMPORAL. NACIONAL DE REINO UNIDO' and that it will be valid for 5 years. Unless maybe I can exchange it for a permanent one before that 5 years is up.
> 
> Edit: I have just read Joppa's post which seems to be consistent with that.


I've seen a number of FB posts from Brit's who have been resident here less than 5 years and particularly from
those here one year or less; who are going to take advantage of the 'it's not obligatory' to exchange for
the TIE route and wait until the 5th anniversary of obtaining their Green Resident card.

Then exchange it for the TIE, their arguement being that the Oficina de Extranjería would be obliged to
issue them with the 10 year permanente card from the day they finally apply for the TIE, with the resultant
saving on it being 1 fee instead of 2 fees and a longer lasting 10 year TIE than if they renewed straight 
away before reaching the 5th anniversary of obtaining their Green card ( and making do with a 
temporary 5 year or less TIE, assuming they renew again sooner than 5 years to get the full 10 year TIE )

Whether such a strategy would work is another matter but on the face of it, there's nothing to stop
them going down this route and pulling it off.


----------



## xabiaxica

Williams2 said:


> I've seen a number of FB posts from Brit's who have been resident here less than 5 years and particularly from those here one year or less; are going take advantage
> of the 'it's not obligatory' to exchange for the TIE route and wait until the 5th
> anniversary of obtaining their Green Resident card. Then exchange it for the
> TIE, there arguement being that the Oficina de Extranjería would be obliged to
> issue them with the 10 year permanente card from the day they finally apply
> for the TIE with the resultant saving on it being 1 fee instead of 2 fees
> and a longer lasting TIE than if they renewed straight away or had reached
> the 5th anniversary of obtaining their Green card.


...for the sake of less than 13€


----------



## kaipa

xabiaxica said:


> Williams2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen a number of FB posts from Brit's who have been resident here less than 5 years and particularly from those here one year or less; are going take advantage
> of the 'it's not obligatory' to exchange for the TIE route and wait until the 5th
> anniversary of obtaining their Green Resident card. Then exchange it for the
> TIE, there arguement being that the Oficina de Extranjería would be obliged to
> issue them with the 10 year permanente card from the day they finally apply
> for the TIE with the resultant saving on it being 1 fee instead of 2 fees
> and a longer lasting TIE than if they renewed straight away or had reached
> the 5th anniversary of obtaining their Green card.
> 
> 
> 
> ...for the sake of less than 13€
Click to expand...

Not if you have to use a gestor then app 100 euros. Remember there is no obligation for the office to speak English


----------



## Williams2

xabiaxica said:


> ...for the sake of less than 13€


And for the sake of 1 visit instead of 2 visits or more to the Oficina de Extranjería, the form filling as well as
the moans about being fingerprinted when those getting the DNI do not ( Civil liberties - they will be asking 
for a sample of your DNA next !! ) plus the fact that by the time they reach their 5th Green card anniversary 
the Covid pandemic might well be over and therefore would have had one less risky situation to
consider keeping such appointments this year.

Not to mention any time off work to keep the appointment, holiday re-arranged, public transport or
car fuel used to travel to and from the Oficina de Extranjería and of course the fee for the translator 
or Gestor for Expats who are still Poco Espanol !! So every little bit saved counts; the prize being
the Expat concerned kicks off with a 10 year permanente TIE card, instead of a 5 year or
less ( from the anniversary of them first acquiring their Green card ) TIE card if they went earlier.


----------



## Localizer

*.... unexpectedly speedy.*

So, after a few years of dithering, lots of lurking here and our days in Spain increasing in number with each year, it was the proximity of Brexit finally made us think it was residencia time.
We clearly had to get our UK life & work arrangements in order and during lockdown we had the time to do this....we signed onto the Padron electronically and received the certificates in less than one day! 
We returned to Spain in late June, had residencia appointments booked - and cancelled as new arrangements came into place. We finally made our submission last week - again electronically - and received our approval in less than 48 hours from the Malaga office.

One more meeting to book and then we should have our 5 year residency cards in our hands...... 

Thanks to all who put finger to keyboard here - this site has been and is a goldmine of information.


----------



## Alcalaina

Localizer said:


> So, after a few years of dithering, lots of lurking here and our days in Spain increasing in number with each year, it was the proximity of Brexit finally made us think it was residencia time.
> We clearly had to get our UK life & work arrangements in order and during lockdown we had the time to do this....we signed onto the Padron electronically and received the certificates in less than one day!
> We returned to Spain in late June, had residencia appointments booked - and cancelled as new arrangements came into place. We finally made our submission last week - again electronically - and received our approval in less than 48 hours from the Malaga office.
> 
> One more meeting to book and then we should have our 5 year residency cards in our hands......
> 
> Thanks to all who put finger to keyboard here - this site has been and is a goldmine of information.


Interesting that you could do all this online. Is it just Málaga I wonder? Do you have a link to the site?


----------



## Localizer

Alcalaina said:


> Interesting that you could do all this online. Is it just Málaga I wonder? Do you have a link to the site?



We used an agent to handle all our submissions .... (don't think I'm allowed to post their name?) ...... over distance and a language barrier which I'm embarrassed about it was the safest way for us to get things in order and completed before the end of the year.

Malaga office for the Residency, and Benahavis for the Padron.


----------



## kaipa

Since when can padron and registration be done in absence??? Surely you cant get registered without physically presenting yourself?


----------



## clau420e

Hello all, 

Just an FYI for all. Fingerprints are absolutely mandatory for the issuance of a DNI. It is a biometric requisite, It confirms the identity of the ID holder. This, in turn, enables them to travel within the Schengen area of Europe without a passport. Both the DNI and the TIE have a chip which stores all biometric information...just like passports. 

Enjoy your day.

C.


----------



## Localizer

kaipa said:


> Since when can padron and registration be done in absence??? Surely you cant get registered without physically presenting yourself?


... So I can only say what happened to us. 

Benahavis was only accepting Padron Applications electronically in May we were informed. Nota Simple, application form and NIE all required electronically - Padron certificate issued electronically.

As I understand, under the new TIE/Residency procedures, first stage is or can be all electronic document submission to Malaga - if that generates an residency approval a physical meeting is required to collect physical data for card issue. we need to attend with the following:

· one photo each 32 mm x 26 mm, in colour, white background
·  Passport and a copy
· Residency approval forms attached and printed
· Appointment confirmation printed (once obtained and emailed)
· Application form (to be emailed)
· Fee form paid by the bank (to be emailed)
· Padron certificate and a copy


Other offices may be operating differently.


----------



## Joppa

I have received a detailed guide from Malaga for those living or going to live within the province. The first step is submission of application and documents at Extranjeria in Malaga, which can be done electronically if you have digital certificate or when using a gestor or lawyer, or in person. The second step, after approval, is application in person at police station, then finally collection of TIE, again in person.


----------



## xabiaxica

Joppa said:


> I have received a detailed guide from Malaga for those living or going to live within the province. The first step is submission of application and documents at Extranjeria in Malaga, which can be done electronically if you have digital certificate or when using a gestor or lawyer, or in person. The second step, after approval, is application in person at police station, then finally collection of TIE, again in person.


That's the same everywhere (obv not everyone goes to Málaga, but the province extranjería where you live), according to the govt Q&A in our FAQs. 

I understand that Mijas has produced a guide - which is full of errors as far as who applies for what & with which form


----------



## Love Karma

I have the Green A4 Certificate with "permanente" on it which is fine and it is not obligatory to swap for a TIE so I'm going to stick with that.


----------



## kaipa

Love Karma said:


> I have the Green A4 Certificate with "permanente" on it which is fine and it is not obligatory to swap for a TIE so I'm going to stick with that.


Absolutely. In the new year it will most likely be easier to do if you so wish but it does seem to be a task to undertake at the moment with the heat


----------



## Williams2

Joppa said:


> I have received a detailed guide from Malaga for those living or going to live within the province. The first step is submission of application and documents at Extranjeria in Malaga, which can be done electronically if you have digital certificate or when using a gestor or lawyer, or in person. The second step, after approval, is application in person at police station, then finally collection of TIE, again in person.


So I count 3 appointments already to get the TIE ( or 2 if you can submit the application bit by digital certificate ) 
and I assume on the 2nd step you hand in your Green Resident card before reaching stage 3 to finally collect the TIE 
which I believe will not be ready until 30 or 40 days later.

Well speaking personally that rules me out already as I'll be doing my sojourn to the UK next month and 
will need to have a card on me, Green Card or TIE in order to get back to Spain thanks to the ever fluid
situation surrounding the Covid outbreaks.

When Spain says only Spanish citizens resident in Spain or those with resident cards can enter Spain after
their return from abroad due to Covid outbreaks.


----------



## Joppa

Williams2 said:


> So I count 3 appointments already to get the TIE ( or 2 if you can submit the application bit by digital certificate )
> and I assume on the 2nd step you hand in your Green Resident card before reaching stage 3 to finally collect the TIE
> which I believe will not be ready until 30 days later or more.
> 
> Well speaking personally that rules me out already as I'll be doing my sojourn to the UK next month and
> will need to have a card on me, Green Card or TIE in order to get back to Spain thanks to the ever fluid
> situation surrounding the Covid outbreaks.
> 
> When Spain says only Spanish citizens resident in Spain or those with resident cards can enter Spain after
> their return from abroad due to Covid outbreaks.


Yes. Someone submitted in person at Malaga was given the approval straightaway, and was able to secure appointment at a police station within a week. He was told there that the issue of TIE will take just over a month so he is waiting to hear from them when he can collect. I think you have to collect your card within a month of being issued.


----------



## Joppa

xabiaxica said:


> That's the same everywhere (obv not everyone goes to Málaga, but the province extranjería where you live), according to the govt Q&A in our FAQs.
> 
> I understand that Mijas has produced a guide - which is full of errors as far as who applies for what & with which form


Being Spain, there still seems to be variation between locations. I've heard from someone that in Madrid, you don't go to the Extranjeria for Step One, but to one of the designated police stations.


----------



## clau420e

Williams2 said:


> So I count 3 appointments already to get the TIE ( or 2 if you can submit the application bit by digital certificate )
> and I assume on the 2nd step you hand in your Green Resident card before reaching stage 3 to finally collect the TIE
> which I believe will not be ready until 30 or 40 days later.


You will turn over Green card in step 3, when you collect the TIE card.


----------



## Williams2

Joppa said:


> Yes. Someone submitted in person at Malaga was given the approval straightaway, and was able to secure appointment at a police station within a week. He was told there that the issue of TIE will take just over a month so he is waiting to hear from them when he can collect. I think you have to collect your card within a month of being issued.


But am I correct that the British Expat will be without their original Spanish resident
documents until their new TIE is available and therefore are the Extranjeria 
obliged to provide some form of temporary legal document to cover the said
British Expat facing a repatriation situation due to the ever fluid Covid restrictions ?


----------



## xabiaxica

Joppa said:


> Being Spain, there still seems to be variation between locations. I've heard from someone that in Madrid, you don't go to the Extranjeria for Step One, but to one of the designated police stations.


Many/most extranjerías are attached to National Police stations, even the provincial ones, so that could simply be a case of confusion/misunderstanding on the part of the person.


----------



## Williams2

clau420e said:


> You will turn over Green card in step 3, when you collect the TIE card.


Well those I know that have been to the Extranjeria had to surrender their Green Card at stage 2 and
are currently without any original resident card until their new TIE card is ready in 30 or 40 days time.

Although I've been listening to some Expats where the Extranjeria or the Police ( in other regions ) 
let you hang onto the Green Card while waiting for their new TIE card to be ready.
So in Asturias they take it off you, also I've heard Malaga take it off you while Sevilla let you keep
it while waiting for your TIE.


----------



## xabiaxica

Williams2 said:


> But am I correct that the British Expat will be without their original Spanish resident
> documents until their new TIE is available and therefore are the Extranjeria
> obliged to provide some form of temporary legal document to cover the said
> British Expat facing a repatriation situation due to the ever fluid Covid restrictions ?


No, you are at no point left with no proof of residency. 

You don't hand over the res cert/card until you collect your TIE.


----------



## Williams2

xabiaxica said:


> No, you are at no point left with no proof of residency.
> 
> You don't hand over the res cert/card until you collect your TIE.


Well all I can do is pass on - what other Expats I know ( in Asturias ) have experienced but there again, we all know 
what the different regions in Spain are like for doing or interpreting the rules differently.


----------



## Ilovepatnevin

Williams2 said:


> Well those I know that have been to the Extranjeria had to surrender their Green Card at stage 2 and
> are currently without any original resident card until their new TIE card is ready in 30 or 40 days time.
> 
> Although I've been listening to some Expats where the Extranjeria or the Police ( in other regions )
> let you hang onto the Green Card while waiting for their new TIE card to be ready.
> *So in Asturias they take it off you*, also I've heard Malaga take it off you while Sevilla let you keep
> it while waiting for your TIE.


They don't take it off you in Asturias. The Gijón police station is the only place that British immigrants can go to to get the TIE. I did stage 2 last Friday and I still have my green card.


----------



## membawa

kaipa said:


> Since when can padron and registration be done in absence??? Surely you cant get registered without physically presenting yourself?


I did my empadronamiento fully online.


----------



## Williams2

Ilovepatnevin said:


> They don't take it off you in Asturias. The Gijón police station is the only place that British immigrants can go to to get the TIE. I did stage 2 last Friday and I still have my green card.


Ok that's good to know perhaps Alaister had a bad Extranjeria or Police station official as they would only let
him keep a photocopy of his green card and the resguardo.

Maybe the Autorizacion de regreso is issued in those circumstances when some so and so, behind the
counter wants your green card at stage 2.


----------



## cervasalagartija




----------



## Alcalaina

Statement from the British government on their "Brits in Spain" Facebook page today. 


> Many of you have asked us what constitutes “sufficient resources” if you are applying for residency and not working. It’s not a straightforward question to answer! Both EU and Spanish law state that there is no set amount that a person must have in their bank account in order to meet the residency requirements for EU nationals (which apply to UK nationals during the Transition Period), but rather a series of indicators that will be considered as a guide when assessing the individual’s circumstances. These indicators are: IPREM (Indicador Público de Rentas de Efectos Múltiples. Visit IPREM 2020 Indicador Público de Renta de Efectos Múltiples for information) and the annual income index for accessing social benefits in Spain and the minimum state pension from the Seguridad Social (http://www.seg-social.es/…/Pensionist…/Revalorizacion/30434…)
> 
> We know that UK Nationals are asked to demonstrate funds of varying set amounts depending on where there are in Spain. Often the authorities prefer to see regular income rather than a lump sum in the bank and, in some regions, they ask to see bank statements showing three to six months’ income in a Spanish bank account. Ultimately, it’s at the discretion of the Spanish official to take into consideration your personal circumstances and determine whether or not you have sufficient means to not become a burden on the state, so you may find it helpful to take along other evidence of assets when you go to your appointment. If you want to get a general idea of the figure asked for in your region, please contact the relevant extranjeria office. We do not yet know what the income requirement will be from 1 January 2021, but it is likely to change.


----------



## MataMata

"we do not yet know what the income requirement will be from 1 January 2021, *but it is likely to change"* a masterly deduction and understatement!


----------



## Catalunya22

Well the British Embassy don´t seem to have a clue either.
I watched their first broadcast with the Ambassador thinking it was going to answer all my questions....but everything was a bit wishy-washy and no CLEAR answer was given on anything.


----------



## membawa

Anyone heard of anyone actually receiving their TIE yet?


----------



## Catalunya22

I applied from scratch..

Stage 1 at the Extranjero Office in Barcelona last month...Got an acceptance letter about 2 weeks later.
Stage 2 Had my fingerprints taken at the Police Station last Wednesday. Now I have to wait about 4 weeks for the card to be ready and make an appointment to collect it.

Nearly there after what seemed like an endless process...and they are giving me permanent residence. Card will expire in 2030 at which stage I have to renew it


----------



## Megsmum

Catalunya22 said:


> I applied from scratch..
> 
> Stage 1 at the Extranjero Office in Barcelona last month...Got an acceptance letter about 2 weeks later.
> Stage 2 Had my fingerprints taken at the Police Station last Wednesday. Now I have to wait about 4 weeks for the card to be ready and make an appointment to collect it.
> 
> Nearly there after what seemed like an endless process...and they are giving me permanent residence. Card will expire in 2030 at which stage I have to renew it


Did they tell you what you need to do when it comes for renewal?


----------



## Catalunya22

Nope.....I´ll worry about that nearer the time......I might even be dead by then....lol.

When I get the TIE i need to change my driving licence to a Spanish one. I have an appointment at the end of September to do that. I want to avoid taking a test....I wouldn´t even pass in England after 40 years driving...let alone Spain.


----------



## kaipa

Catalunya22 said:


> Nope.....I´ll worry about that nearer the time......I might even be dead by then....lol.
> 
> When I get the TIE i need to change my driving licence to a Spanish one. I have an appointment at the end of September to do that. I want to avoid taking a test....I wouldn´t even pass in England after 40 years driving...let alone Spain.


Surely if you are getting a 10 year TIE then it is a permanent card so you must have lived in Spain for over 5 years.So how can you have a UK driving licence?


----------



## MataMata

MataMata said:


> "we do not yet know what the income requirement will be from 1 January 2021, *but it is likely to change"* a masterly deduction and understatement!


Not mine but a quote from the British Embassy's Facebook page. 

Personal I don't do Facebook so can't post a link but if you do you should find it easily enough.


----------



## MataMata

The format for ID document/card for non EU citizens is laid down by EU directive.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=LEGISSUM%3Al33043



The only difference is that for British citizens their cards will somehow mention the withdrawal agreement, if not on the face of the card then in the biometric chip. 

You could argue that before Dec 21st. UK citizens are EU citizens so don't - or won't - need to switch from a green residencia to a TIE, and you might be right, but as there seems to be no demonstrable downside to the TIE hanging on to a green card in the belief that it is in some way preferable or more valuable or valid than the TIE can only be seen as irrational and lacking in any basis in fact.

Remember also that recipients of TIE's issued under the withdrawal agreement benefit from greater rights of movement than other 3rd country nationals so it will likely become a necessary document for exercising that.


----------



## Catalunya22

kaipa said:


> Surely if you are getting a 10 year TIE then it is a permanent card so you must have lived in Spain for over 5 years.So how can you have a UK driving licence?



Because I haven´t changed it yet. And at the moment I don´t use a car.


----------



## kaipa

MataMata said:


> The format for ID document/card for non EU citizens is laid down by EU directive.
> 
> https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=LEGISSUM:l33043
> 
> 
> 
> The only difference is that for British citizens their cards will somehow mention the withdrawal agreement, if not on the face of the card then in the biometric chip.
> 
> You could argue that before Dec 21st. UK citizens are EU citizens so don't - or won't - need to switch from a green residencia to a TIE, and you might be right, but as there seems to be no demonstrable downside to the TIE hanging on to a green card in the belief that it is in some way preferable or more valuable or valid than the TIE can only be seen as irrational and lacking in any basis in fact.
> 
> Remember also that recipients of TIE's issued under the withdrawal agreement benefit from greater rights of movement than other 3rd country nationals so it will likely become a necessary document for exercising that.


My only worry is that the card has a different start date from your green card. I know that it is said that those with existing years will not have to wait 5 years to get permanent card but TBH as soon as you show the new card to any official the immediate reaction will be that you only received residency in 2020. When I lost my green card the new one I recieved had my original registration date on it so I know exactly when my 5 year period is complete. As you have to submit your green card when you get TIE how will you prove your initial registration date?


----------



## kaipa

Catalunya22 said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Surely if you are getting a 10 year TIE then it is a permanent card so you must have lived in Spain for over 5 years.So how can you have a UK driving licence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I haven´t changed it yet. And at the moment I don´t use a car.
Click to expand...

I was made to change mine within a year of residency as I was told it was law. Maybe that has changed because of Brexit?


----------



## Catalunya22

kaipa said:


> I was made to change mine within a year of residency as I was told it was law. Maybe that has changed because of Brexit?


I don´t think so. I should have changed it earlier, but living in Barcelona I don´t need a car.
I am changing it now to avoid taking a test...just in case I move out of Barcelona and need to start driving agin.


----------



## Alcalaina

kaipa said:


> My only worry is that the card has a different start date from your green card. I know that it is said that those with existing years will not have to wait 5 years to get permanent card but TBH as soon as you show the new card to any official *the immediate reaction will be that you only received residency in 2020*. When I lost my green card the new one I recieved had my original registration date on it so I know exactly when my 5 year period is complete. As you have to submit your green card when you get TIE how will you prove your initial registration date?


Why does the start date matter? The TIE proves you are a legal resident protected by the rights in the withdrawal agreement. Should you ever be required for some reason to prove how long you've been here, you could always show your tax returns.


----------



## Alcalaina

kaipa said:


> I was made to change mine within a year of residency as I was told it was law. Maybe that has changed because of Brexit?


I don't think it was illegal to drive on a British licence before Brexit, but if you lost it or needed to renew it you'd have had to give a British address, and that _would_ be illegal. But I could be wrong.


----------



## kaipa

Alcalaina said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> 
> My only worry is that the card has a different start date from your green card. I know that it is said that those with existing years will not have to wait 5 years to get permanent card but TBH as soon as you show the new card to any official *the immediate reaction will be that you only received residency in 2020*. When I lost my green card the new one I recieved had my original registration date on it so I know exactly when my 5 year period is complete. As you have to submit your green card when you get TIE how will you prove your initial registration date?
> 
> 
> 
> Why does the start date matter? The TIE proves you are a legal resident protected by the rights in the withdrawal agreement. Should you ever be required for some reason to prove how long you've been here, you could always show your tax returns.
Click to expand...

I am just worried that if I went to get a permanent residency TIE ( which is about a year for me) and I presented them with a card with a TIE 2020 date they might tell me I need to wait until 2025. In the meantime I wouldn't have my original card proving my original registration date. I dare say it could be ironed out eventually but sometimes things things take time, require extra journeys and are frustrating


----------



## Alcalaina

kaipa said:


> I am just worried that if I went to get a permanent residency TIE ( which is about a year for me) and I presented them with a card with a TIE 2020 date they might tell me I need to wait until 2025. In the meantime I wouldn't have my original card proving my original registration date. I dare say it could be ironed out eventually but sometimes things things take time, require extra journeys and are frustrating


Best just to wait until you've done your five years then, and get a ten year TIE.


----------



## Williams2

Alcalaina said:


> Why does the start date matter? The TIE proves you are a legal resident protected by the rights in the withdrawal agreement. Should you ever be required for some reason to prove how long you've been here, you could always show your tax returns.


On the other hand there are those who already have the Green Resident card but 
have been resident in Spain for less than 5 years and yet to be eligible for a
'permanente' TIE card from the first day they apply for it - who will think.

1. Currently there's no obligation for Brits with Green cards to change to the TIE.

2. If I go for the TIE before the 5th anniversary of me getting my Green card.
I will only get an inferior ( in terms of duration ) temporary resident TIE with
( on this occasion ) an obligation to renew it in 5 years or ( hopefully ) less than
5 years, to take account of the years you have been here in Spain already;
in order to upgrade it to a 10 year renewable permanente TIE card.

3. Taking into account steps 1 & 2, two fees instead of one fee - who knows
how many extra appointments and yet another set of photocards I might
have to submit along with another set of TIE application forms.
I might as well 'sit on the fence' and wait for the 5th anniversary date 
of getting me Green Card and then apply for the 'permanente' TIE card
with the 10 year renewable period. Simple.


----------



## kaipa

Alcalaina said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am just worried that if I went to get a permanent residency TIE ( which is about a year for me) and I presented them with a card with a TIE 2020 date they might tell me I need to wait until 2025. In the meantime I wouldn't have my original card proving my original registration date. I dare say it could be ironed out eventually but sometimes things things take time, require extra journeys and are frustrating
> 
> 
> 
> Best just to wait until you've done your five years then, and get a ten year TIE.
Click to expand...

Yes that is what I intend to do and perhaps recommend to others who have less than five years


----------



## Joppa

kaipa said:


> Yes that is what I intend to do and perhaps recommend to others who have less than five years


And if you are a couple, you need two separate appointments for each step, doubling the inconvenience.


----------



## Megsmum

MataMata said:


> Not mine but a quote from the British Embassy's Facebook page.
> 
> Personal I don't do Facebook so can't post a link but if you do you should find it easily enough.


But this, surely is for those applying for residency AFTER this year. As I understand it there are no additional requirements now.


I have my green permanent card. I have a driving license I see no benefits as it stands, and under the Spanish government directive re the need for a TIE, to change. I will wait until I have to and worrrya about it then


----------



## xabiaxica

membawa said:


> Anyone heard of anyone actually receiving their TIE yet?


Yes, lots, several who I know IRL.


----------



## xabiaxica

Megsmum said:


> But this, surely is for those applying for residency AFTER this year. As I understand it there are no additional requirements now.
> 
> 
> I have my green permanent card. I have a driving license I see no benefits as it stands, and under the Spanish government directive re the need for a TIE, to change. I will wait until I have to and worrrya about it then


You're right. NO changes until Jan 1st 2021


----------



## Williams2

kaipa said:


> Yes that is what I intend to do and perhaps recommend to others who have less than five years


There are many who have been here for 5 years and longer - who
will no doubt 'sit on the fence' on even getting the 10 year TIE ( unless obliged 
to do so on technicalities like changing their permanent address ) who
will stick it out until such time as Spain says that as from such and such a
date, it will be obligatory to change their Green permanente Cards for a
permanente TIE card; who will say to themselves - well it became obligatory
for us to go for the TIE as from ( for eg ) January 2024 but at least we don't 
renew it again until January 2034, unlike those who have to renew it 4 years
earlier than that date.

Many Brit's might have 'passed away' anyway during the intervening period
of course.


----------



## Catalunya22

Alcalaina said:


> Best just to wait until you've done your five years then, and get a ten year TIE.


Or take a photocopy/scan of it.


----------



## MataMata

Apart from it being a matter of record a simple photocopy of your green residencia will prove when you first became resident so to reasonable degree will the date of your first Padron (if you've done it legally), your Modelo 720, and your first tax return so a lot of worrying for nothing IMO. 

If they do make the change mandatory, and it's still my guess that they will, we'll see yet again a mad panic to get it done before a cutoff date.

You'll feel *REALLY* sick then if the date of you TIE reflects when you APPLIED and not when you first got your residence!


----------



## Megsmum

MataMata said:


> Apart from it being a matter of record a simple photocopy of your green residencia will prove when you first became resident so to reasonable degree will the date of your first Padron (if you've done it legally), your Modelo 720, and your first tax return so a lot of worrying for nothing IMO.
> 
> If they do make the change mandatory, and it's still my guess that they will, we'll see yet again a mad panic to get it done before a cutoff date.
> 
> You'll feel *REALLY* sick then if the date of you TIE reflects when you APPLIED and not when you first got your residence!


Why? If I’m registered as a resident legally now and it becomes mandatory, and there is no evidence that’s the case , if I apply in say 2022 and I am already here since 2014 then what difference does it make if my current card says 2014 and my new one says 2022. Maybe I am misunderstanding your comment


----------



## membawa

Hello, I am going to pick my new TIE card up sometime next week, I'm quite nervous, has anyone else done it and can tell me what it was like?


----------



## Alcalaina

membawa said:


> Hello, I am going to pick my new TIE card up sometime next week, I'm quite nervous, has anyone else done it and can tell me what it was like?


I haven't but I know people who have and it's very straightforward, you've already done the complicated bit!


----------



## Catalunya22

membawa said:


> Hello, I am going to pick my new TIE card up sometime next week, I'm quite nervous, has anyone else done it and can tell me what it was like?


Can I ask you how many days it took to get the card from when you had your fingerprints taken?


----------



## membawa

Hi! I haven't actually picked it up yet, but they told me 3 weeks from the fingerprints, and gave me a number to call first so I could check it was actually ready. 

Apparently 45 days is the very maximum, because the letter you have to show when you pick it up says 'this letter expires after 45 days'.


----------



## Catalunya22

They told me 4 or 5 weeks in Barcelona. They didn´t give me a number to call and they specifically said they would not inform me when the card was ready.
Regarding the form that expires after 45 days....I was having a discussion with someone yesterday, because I thought that you had to collect the card before the form expires and was having difficulty in getting an appointment.
We finally decided that the form that expires in 45 days does not mean that you have to collect the card within 45 days. We decided that if the Police stopped you and wanted proof that you were legally resident here then that is what the form is for. We figured that it was unlikely that Europeans would be stopped...although not impossible.....more likely it would be Africans if that all makes sense.


----------



## Catalunya22

So for example...if the card takes 5 weeks....35 days....then that only gives a window of ten days to collect the card....and making an appointment in Barcelona is SO difficult.
I´m also worried because I have an appointment to change my UK driving licence to a Spanish one at the end of September...and I need the Residency Card to be able to do that.
It´s also very difficult to get an appointment to do that....I struck lucky one day. But if I have to cancel that appointment because I haven´t got my TIE it´s almost impossible to make another appointment.
And all needs doiing before end of December. I don´t fancy taking a Spanish driving test....I wouldn´t even pass an English one now....


----------



## Williams2

membawa said:


> Hello, I am going to pick my new TIE card up sometime next week, I'm quite nervous, has anyone else done it and can tell me what it was like?


I hear that some Brit's throw socially distanced tea parties to celebrate getting their TIE or you
could call them TIE parties. :lol:


----------



## Catalunya22

I was happy when I got my CatSalut card so I can use the Spanish health care system (married to a Spaniard)
Almost worth throwing a party for that.....


----------



## Ben2013

I applied for the TIE through solicitors based in Spain. The application was completed online and it has been granted. I am in the UK and I now need to travel to Spain to give fingerprints. But due to corona virus situation and quarantine here in the UK I cannot travel immediately.
1. Are you aware of any time limit to give fingerprints? 
2.(it may sound stupid) but is there a way I can give fingerprints through Spanish embassy in London due to corona.
3. Does TIE give British citizens same rights in other EU countries in terms of living and working....?

Many thanks


----------



## MataMata

Catalunya22 said:


> I´m also worried because I have an appointment to change my UK driving licence to a Spanish one at the end of September...and I need the Residency Card to be able to do that.


No need to worry.

If you've applied for residence before Dec 31st then you have a window of 6 months beyond that to exchange your licence.


----------



## xabiaxica

Ben2013 said:


> I applied for the TIE through solicitors based in Spain. The application was completed online and it has been granted. I am in the UK and I now need to travel to Spain to give fingerprints. But due to corona virus situation and quarantine here in the UK I cannot travel immediately.
> 1. Are you aware of any time limit to give fingerprints?
> 2.(it may sound stupid) but is there a way I can give fingerprints through Spanish embassy in London due to corona.
> 3. Does TIE give British citizens same rights in other EU countries in terms of living and working....?
> 
> Many thanks


No - you need to do it here in Spain. If you live in Spain they aren't going to be in the least bit interested in quarantine issues in the UK!

When will you be back here? Make an appointment then.


----------



## Catalunya22

MataMata said:


> No need to worry.
> 
> If you've applied for residence before Dec 31st then you have a window of 6 months beyond that to exchange your licence.



Are you sure?

Where did you see that?


----------



## Catalunya22

Ben2013 said:


> I applied for the TIE through solicitors based in Spain. The application was completed online and it has been granted. I am in the UK and I now need to travel to Spain to give fingerprints. But due to corona virus situation and quarantine here in the UK I cannot travel immediately.
> 1. Are you aware of any time limit to give fingerprints?
> 2.(it may sound stupid) but is there a way I can give fingerprints through Spanish embassy in London due to corona.
> 3. Does TIE give British citizens same rights in other EU countries in terms of living and working....?
> 
> Many thanks


The letter I received after I applied for a TIE stated that WITHIN ONE MONTH I had to get my fingerprints done at the Police Station.
I can´t be certain, but if you don´t do it within one month I think you have to apply again from scratch.


----------



## Catalunya22

Ben2013 said:


> I applied for the TIE through solicitors based in Spain. The application was completed online and it has been granted. I am in the UK and I now need to travel to Spain to give fingerprints. But due to corona virus situation and quarantine here in the UK I cannot travel immediately.
> 1. Are you aware of any time limit to give fingerprints?
> 2.(it may sound stupid) but is there a way I can give fingerprints through Spanish embassy in London due to corona.
> 3. Does TIE give British citizens same rights in other EU countries in terms of living and working....?
> 
> Many thanks



Regarding Question 3...No. The TIE only gives you rights in Spain. For example, it does not mean that you can go and live in France after the end of this year. It guarantees your rights in Spain only.


----------



## xabiaxica

Catalunya22 said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> Where did you see that?


Afaik you have to have started the process by the end of this year.


----------



## Catalunya22

Ben2013 said:


> I applied for the TIE through solicitors based in Spain. The application was completed online and it has been granted. I am in the UK and I now need to travel to Spain to give fingerprints. But due to corona virus situation and quarantine here in the UK I cannot travel immediately.
> 1. Are you aware of any time limit to give fingerprints?
> 2.(it may sound stupid) but is there a way I can give fingerprints through Spanish embassy in London due to corona.
> 3. Does TIE give British citizens same rights in other EU countries in terms of living and working....?
> 
> Many thanks



And regarding Question 2.....I doubt it very much. Not even worth asking them to be honest.


----------



## Catalunya22

xabiaxica said:


> Afaik you have to have started the process by the end of this year.


That was my understanding of it too....


----------



## Ben2013

Are you sure, applicants for TIE have to do the fingerprints within a month? Acceptance called (resolución de concesión) doesn't mention any time limit for fingerprints in Alicante office. Fingerprints will be done through appointments. Especially now with the corona situation, everything gets delayed


----------



## xabiaxica

Ben2013 said:


> Are you sure, applicants for TIE have to do the fingerprints within a month? Acceptance called (resolución de concesión) doesn't mention any time limit for fingerprints in Alicante office. Fingerprints will be done through appointments. Especially now with the corona situation, everything gets delayed


Those I know have indeed had to go back within a certain time period, but haven't had to make appointments. They've been told that it would be available as of xxx/ within xxx weeks. Some have had to phone, some just been told to turn up after a certain date. 

It varies between local offices. 

The recurring theme though is the time limit. 

The covid situation makes no difference. This particular process didn't even exist before covid...


----------



## Catalunya22

Ben2013 said:


> Are you sure, applicants for TIE have to do the fingerprints within a month? Acceptance called (resolución de concesión) doesn't mention any time limit for fingerprints in Alicante office. Fingerprints will be done through appointments. Especially now with the corona situation, everything gets delayed



That´s what it says on my letter saying my Residency has been accepted...
En el plazo de un mes desde la notificacion de la presente rosolucion debera solicitar, personalmente, su expedicion.
Es necesario reserva una cita en una Comisaria del Curpo Nacional de Policia para el tramite POLICIA EXP-TARJETA ASOCIADA AL ACUERDO DE RETIRADA CIUDADANOS BRITANICOS Y SUS FAMILIARES BREXIT

which in English means

Within one month from the notification of this resolution, you must personally request its issuance.
It is necessary to reserve an appointment at a National Police Commissioner to process the POLICIA EXP-CARD ASSOCIATED WITH THE RETIREMENT AGREEMENT FOR BRITISH CITIZENS AND THEIR RELATIVES BREXIT

This is when your fingerprints are taken.


You need to take with you for this..

Completed EX 23 Form
One photogrpah.
Proof of Payment...the Modelo 790 Codigo 012..you should have paid twelve euros beforehand.
A copy of your Padron 
A copy of your passport and of course your actual Passport


----------



## Catalunya22

xabiaxica said:


> Those I know have indeed had to go back within a certain time period, but haven't had to make appointments. They've been told that it would be available as of xxx/ within xxx weeks. Some have had to phone, some just been told to turn up after a certain date.
> 
> It varies between local offices.
> 
> The recurring theme though is the time limit.
> 
> The covid situation makes no difference. This particular process didn't even exist before covid...



Isn´t this for the actual COLLECTION of the card though?

The fingerprint process needs an appointment.
And to collect the actual card later you definitely need an appointment in Barcelona.


----------



## Catalunya22

If you´re starting from scratch in Barcelona you need 3 appointemnts.

one with the Foreigner´s Office to submit your application.
one with the Police to take your fingerprints
and one with the Police to collect the card


----------



## xabiaxica

Catalunya22 said:


> Isn´t this for the actual COLLECTION of the card though?
> 
> The fingerprint process needs an appointment.
> And to collect the actual card later you definitely need an appointment in Barcelona.


Not everywhere afaik. There's definitely a time limit everywhere though. 


Which for someone living in Spain shouldn't be a problem!


----------



## Catalunya22

xabiaxica said:


> Not everywhere afaik. There's definitely a time limit everywhere though.
> 
> 
> Which for someone living in Spain shouldn't be a problem!



Providing of course if you can get an appointment in time if you need one.
They are snapped up as soon as they are released. Here In Barcelona anyway.


----------



## Catalunya22

Ben2013 said:


> Are you sure, applicants for TIE have to do the fingerprints within a month? Acceptance called (resolución de concesión) doesn't mention any time limit for fingerprints in Alicante office. Fingerprints will be done through appointments. Especially now with the corona situation, everything gets delayed


Ben....Maybe you should call your Spanish solicitors tomorrow.

My Residency acceptance letter definitely stated I should make an appointment with the Police to have my fingerprints taken within a month from the date of acceptance.


----------



## xabiaxica

Catalunya22 said:


> Ben....Maybe you should call your Spanish solicitors tomorrow.
> 
> My Residency acceptance letter definitely stated I should make an appointment with the Police to have my fingerprints taken within a month from the date of acceptance.


...and then there's a time limit for collection in person, too.


----------



## Megsmum

Ben2013 said:


> I applied for the TIE through solicitors based in Spain. The application was completed online and it has been granted. I am in the UK and I now need to travel to Spain to give fingerprints. But due to corona virus situation and quarantine here in the UK I cannot travel immediately.
> 1. Are you aware of any time limit to give fingerprints?
> 2.(it may sound stupid) but is there a way I can give fingerprints through Spanish embassy in London due to corona.
> 3. Does TIE give British citizens same rights in other EU countries in terms of living and working....?
> 
> Many thanks


I do not understand why, if normally resident in Spain, which I presume you are and will be, as you are applying for a TIE, Exactly what the UK situation has to do with it. I came home to Spain from the U.K. 2 weeks ago, entry into Spain is not an issue? 

Are you not actually resident yet ie living here ?


----------



## Ben2013

Megsmum/
Being resident in Spain doesn't mean staying there all the time. 
Some have situations. My relative was in hospital in the UK and requires my help. Whilst I am in the UK, I need to be free of any quarantine that would prevent me from going to hospital or shopping for this relative... 
This is just an example.
The weather has been awful in London these days and I would love to be in Spain but can't right now.


----------



## Ben2013

Catalunia/
Thank you for your advice. 
I will certainly contact the avocados tomorrow to clarify time scale for fingerprints. 
Kind regards


----------



## Catalunya22

Ben2013 said:


> Catalunia/
> Thank you for your advice.
> I will certainly contact the avocados tomorrow to clarify time scale for fingerprints.
> Kind regards


You´re welcome Ben.


----------



## Megsmum

Ben2013 said:


> Megsmum/
> Being resident in Spain doesn't mean staying there all the time.
> Some have situations. My relative was in hospital in the UK and requires my help. Whilst I am in the UK, I need to be free of any quarantine that would prevent me from going to hospital or shopping for this relative...
> This is just an example.
> The weather has been awful in London these days and I would love to be in Spain but can't right now.


Ah I see. Apologies it was a genuine question. How long do you think you will be there for? I can’t see Spain coming off of the quarantine list any time soon. Do you have your green card of residency?


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Ben2013 said:


> Catalunia/
> Thank you for your advice.
> I will certainly contact the avocados tomorrow to clarify time scale for fingerprints.
> Kind regards


 Hmmm, avocados are for eating.
Abogado is the Spanish word for lawyer or solicitor.


----------



## xabiaxica

Megsmum said:


> Ah I see. Apologies it was a genuine question. How long do you think you will be there for? I can’t see Spain coming off of the quarantine list any time soon.* Do you have your green card of residency?*


Good point. If so, there's no hurry at all.


----------



## Catalunya22

Ben2013 said:


> Catalunia/
> Thank you for your advice.
> I will certainly contact the avocados tomorrow to clarify time scale for fingerprints.
> Kind regards


Let me know what they tell you Ben.


----------



## Ben2013

Megsmum /
Thank you for your replies. 
Although I own property in Alicante I never thought of applying for a residency in Spain until it became certain the UK was leaving EU by the end of the year.
My plan is spend most of the time in Spain and some time in the UK. 
For this purpose, I would need the TIE after Brexit.
Cheers


----------



## Ben2013

Please guys, some of you have mentioned (changing driving licence) within 6 months if applied for TIE by Dec 31 2020.
Do I need to change my driving licence through my solicitors in Spain or is it a straight forward process I can do myself without the need to pay avocados? 
And what are the requirements apart from TIE?
If there is another forum for this, please forgive me. 
I shall be grateful if you have the link. 
Regards


----------



## xabiaxica

Ben2013 said:


> Megsmum /
> Thank you for your replies.
> Although I own property in Alicante I never thought of applying for a residency in Spain until it became certain the UK was leaving EU by the end of the year.
> My plan is spend most of the time in Spain and some time in the UK.
> For this purpose, I would need the TIE after Brexit.
> Cheers


Let us know how you get on. 

I hope your relative recovers enough that you can get back to Spain in time to sort this out. 


Do bear in mind though, that the Spanish govt is fully aware of those who have been resident for some without registering, and that some people have been coming for holidays & registering even though they have no plans to actually live here for some years, and may refuse residency if they suspect that to be the case. Also, residency can be rescinded if you are out of Spain for more than 6 months a year, during teh first 5 years. 

I'm not saying that this applies to you, but wanting to delay the process because of quarantine restrictions in the UK could give that impression.


----------



## xabiaxica

Ben2013 said:


> Please guys, some of you have mentioned (changing driving licence) within 6 months if applied for TIE by Dec 31 2020.
> Do I need to change my driving licence through my solicitors in Spain or is it a straight forward process I can do myself without the need to pay avocados?
> And what are the requirements apart from TIE?
> If there is another forum for this, please forgive me.
> I shall be grateful if you have the link.
> Regards


You need to have started the exchange process before the end of this year. As of next year you would only be allowed to drive for 6 months before you have to take a full driving test if you haven't exchanged.


It's possible to do it without an abogado or gestor, though we're hearing that appointments are almost impossible in some areas atm. 


There's a link explaining the process in the FAQ sticky thread at the top.


----------



## Catalunya22

Ben...To change your driving licence, as Xabiaxica says, you need to have started the process before the end of this year.
First of all though, you will need your TIE...
When you have that...make an appointment with the DGT...Take your TIE, British Driving licence, photo, application form and a card to pay with. They will give you a temporary piece of paper to keep in case you are stopped by the Police. When your Spanish licence is ready, they will post it to you.
You can make an appointment via this link....but appointments are difficult to get so you need patience and time...just keep clicking until an appointment show up.
https://sedeapl.dgt.gob.es:7443/WEB_NCIT_CONSULTA/solicitarCita.faces


----------



## Catalunya22

If you do not start the process before the end of the year you will end up having to take a Spanish driving test and a theory test...in Spanish.
If you are just changing your licence from British to Spanish you do not need a medical.
If you are RENEWING your licence you need to have a medical.

I have an appontment for 29 September in Barcelona. I´ll let you know how it goes.....as long as I can get an appointment to pick up my TIE before then.

Did you call your Solicitor about the fingerprints?


----------



## Catalunya22

On the DGT website, choose a city....then in the next drop-down box choose CANJE....if you are EXCHANGING British to Spanish. Then in the country drop-down box choose Reino Unido...obviously


----------



## Catalunya22

If you are RENEWING choose Renovar...but you will need a medical beforehand.


----------



## Catalunya22

Ben2013 said:


> Please guys, some of you have mentioned (changing driving licence) within 6 months if applied for TIE by Dec 31 2020.
> Do I need to change my driving licence through my solicitors in Spain or is it a straight forward process I can do myself without the need to pay avocados?
> And what are the requirements apart from TIE?
> If there is another forum for this, please forgive me.
> I shall be grateful if you have the link.
> Regards


Can I ask you how much the Solicitor charged you for doing the TIE?


----------



## Ben2013

THANK you so much for the information about driving licence! It is really very helpful! Kind regards


----------



## Ben2013

Catalunia22
Thank you for your advice about (changing driving licence) 
If you change your licence, will you
Still keep your UK licence to use in the UK or not? In other words are UK citizens allowed to hold 2 driving licences (UK and Spanish)? Regards


----------



## Catalunya22

Ben2013 said:


> Catalunia22
> Thank you for your advice about (changing driving licence)
> If you change your licence, will you
> Still keep your UK licence to use in the UK or not? In other words are UK citizens allowed to hold 2 driving licences (UK and Spanish)? Regards


No...they will take your UK licence off you and give you an official paper to show police until they post you your actual Spanish licence.
The straight answer is NO....you cannot have both.

How much did your Solicitor charge for your TIE....and did you speak to them today?


----------



## Joppa

Ben2013 said:


> Catalunia22
> Thank you for your advice about (changing driving licence)
> If you change your licence, will you
> Still keep your UK licence to use in the UK or not? In other words are UK citizens allowed to hold 2 driving licences (UK and Spanish)? Regards


No, but your Spanish licence will be valid for driving in UK, for example, when hiring a car. And should you eventually return to UK permanently, you can have your UK licence reissued.
I have heard you can apply for exchange of licence at any DGT office, not necessarily where you live. Can someone confirm this?


----------



## Catalunya22

Joppa said:


> No, but your Spanish licence will be valid for driving in UK, for example, when hiring a car. And should you eventually return to UK permanently, you can have your UK licence reissued.
> I have heard you can apply for exchange of licence at any DGT office, not necessarily where you live. Can someone confirm this?


I have heard that too....I´ve seen it quoted somewhere but can´t remember where.


----------



## membawa

I finally received my TIE card today, if anyone has any questions feel free to ask.


----------



## Catalunya22

I pick up my TIE next week....Really excited......don´t know why, it´s just a card.
Next job...change UK driving licence to a Spanish one.


----------



## membawa

Catalunya22 said:


> I pick up my TIE next week....Really excited......don´t know why, it´s just a card.
> Next job...change UK driving licence to a Spanish one.


It's pretty simple, all I needed was the letter, my passport and my green NIE (which they kept). You also have to do your fingerprints again, I guess they're just making sure they still match the ones they took the last time.


----------



## Catalunya22

Ok...Thanks for the info.
Well done. Is yours a 5 or ten year one?


----------



## Joppa

membawa said:


> I finally received my TIE card today, if anyone has any questions feel free to ask.


What colour is it? Does it bear your fingerprint on the back?


----------



## Catalunya22

Joppa said:


> What colour is it? Does it bear your fingerprint on the back?


I tthink it´s white, but membawa should be able to confirm.
I guess your fingerprint is embedded on a chip in the card.


----------



## membawa

It looks pretty much exactly like the one at the link below, apart from it says 'tarjeta de residencia' and not 'permiso de residencia'. It doesn't have any visible fingerprint on it, that must just be stored inside the card somewhere.

Mine's 5 years.

https://i2.wp.com/www.yoemigro.com/...o-tie-espana-anverso.jpg?resize=720,407&ssl=1


----------



## Catalunya22

ooohh..I can´t wait.
I´m like a kid opening a Xmas present.


----------



## membawa

Haha I was really excited too for some reason. Dunno why, just a card, haha. But still, quite cool having a real Spanish ID.


----------



## xabiaxica

Catalunya22 said:


> I tthink it´s white, but membawa should be able to confirm.
> I guess your fingerprint is embedded on a chip in the card.


This belongs to a friend of mine. It's a biometric fingerprint.


(I've covered the personal stuff!)


----------



## membawa

xabiaxica said:


> This belongs to a friend of mine. It's a biometric fingerprint.
> 
> 
> (I've covered the personal stuff!)
> View attachment 92888


Oh that's funny, mine looks very slightly different to that (says tarjeta and not permiso). Perhaps my situation is slightly different or perhaps it depends on the region.


----------



## Joppa

membawa said:


> Oh that's funny, mine looks very slightly different to that (says tarjeta and not permiso). Perhaps my situation is slightly different or perhaps it depends on the region.


Is it because yours is 5 years and xabiaxica's friend has a permanent (10-year) card?


----------



## membawa

Joppa said:


> Is it because yours is 5 years and xabiaxica's friend has a permanent (10-year) card?


Oh probably, yes, didn't notice that!


----------



## Alcalaina

Joppa said:


> Is it because yours is 5 years and xabiaxica's friend has a permanent (10-year) card?


Isn't it a bit misleading to say that the 10-year card is "permanent"? It still has to be renewed after 10 years, with a new photo, doesn't it?


----------



## Joppa

Alcalaina said:


> Isn't it a bit misleading to say that the 10-year card is "permanent"? It still has to be renewed after 10 years, with a new photo, doesn't it?


Permanent in terms of residency status but a photocard has to be renewed every 10 years because of possible change in appearance.


----------



## Alcalaina

Joppa said:


> Permanent in terms of residency status but a photocard has to be renewed every 10 years because of possible change in appearance.


But the 5-year one guarantees permanent residency status too, doesn't it? Or have I missed something?


----------



## Catalunya22

Yes it does. I don´t know why they issue 5 AND 10 year ones though.
It would make sense for them all to be ten years.


----------



## membawa

Alcalaina said:


> But the 5-year one guarantees permanent residency status too, doesn't it? Or have I missed something?


Where did you read that? (asking out of ignorance, not because I'm trying to say you're wrong!). Would be good for me if that's true.


----------



## Catalunya22

I didn´t read it anywhere. But a Residence card is a Residence Card under Article 50 whether it´s five years or ten years. As I say, I don´t know why there is a difference...except in the official info from the Spanish Government it says that if you have been resident for less than 5 years they will issue a five year card...and if you have been resident for more than 5 years they will issue a ten year card.

Whichever one you have, you are still covered by the Withdrawal Agreement providing you are here before the end of the year.


----------



## Joppa

Alcalaina said:


> But the 5-year one guarantees permanent residency status too, doesn't it? Or have I missed something?


Not quite. You can lose your resident status if you stay away from Spain more than 6 months in a year. After you get permanente, you can be away for up to 5 years.


----------



## Catalunya22

Unless anyone can prove me wrong.....lol


----------



## Catalunya22

Ah ok Joppa...I see the difference now then.


----------



## xabiaxica

Joppa said:


> Not quite. You can lose your resident status if you stay away from Spain more than 6 months in a year. After you get permamente, you can be away for up to 5 years.


Yes, as of next year under the WA, permanent residents can stay away for 5 years. A 'Brexit bonus', because atm it's 2 years.


----------



## Alcalaina

Joppa said:


> Not quite. You can lose your resident status if you stay away from Spain more than 6 months in a year. After you get permamente, you can be away for up to 5 years.


Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## Catalunya22

But to all intents and purposes they are the same thing...except for that caveat.
Should not affect 99.9% of people then.


----------



## Joppa

Another thing to note is you don't have to qualify for permanent residence after 5 years, such as showing financial means and healthcare provisions, though WA does say the host country can conduct criminal record check.


----------



## kaipa

The 5 year means you can have residency revoked ( if tested say tor income etc) The 10 gives you permanent rights which cant be rescinded. Plus as you say 6 months absence for 5 and 5 years for 10 year. Question. Does that mean after you have 10 years you can live in uk for say 4 years and then return to Spain without needing to re register?


----------



## Alcalaina

Just applying for ours. I've downloaded the form Modelo EX-23 and the Tasa 790-012 to pay the fee beforehand (links below). For those who have already done it, is anything else required other than a valid passport and a photo? What size photo?

http://extranjeros.inclusion.gob.es/es/modelossolicitudes/mod_solicitudes2/23-TIE_RU_JUNIO_2020.pdf

https://sede.policia.gob.es:38089/Tasa790_012/ImpresoRellenar (can be completed online then printed).


----------



## Alcalaina

Alcalaina said:


> Just applying for ours. I've downloaded the form Modelo EX-23 and the Tasa 790-012 to pay the fee beforehand (links below). For those who have already done it, is anything else required other than a valid passport and a photo? What size photo?
> 
> http://extranjeros.inclusion.gob.es/es/modelossolicitudes/mod_solicitudes2/23-TIE_RU_JUNIO_2020.pdf
> 
> https://sede.policia.gob.es:38089/Tasa790_012/ImpresoRellenar (can be completed online then printed).


EDIT: photo size is 26x32mm. This site will prepare one for you from a smartphone photo.

https://visafoto.com/es_tie_32x26mm_photo


----------



## Glynb

*Decided to go for TIE*

I know it's not obligatory, or gives any more rights, and under the WA it's not required to exhange the green car for a TIE. But what persuaded me was the argument (often evidenced on this forum) that having a TIE will be the less risky option when dealing with local Spanish officialdom (once the UK is outside the transition period) who very often interpret the rules differently, or may even be ignorant of the detail of WA provisions.

Imagine coming across one next year who states that all Brits should have a TIE as they're no longer EU citizens and refuses to accept the green card ? Arguing with them would probably be fruitless. 

Others can make their own risk assesment. Our experience - we got different interpretation of the residencia documentation requirements at one office than another office (both offices in Alicante province!). An official insisted there should be a health insurance certificate, which our insurers said did not exist. We went to another office and what we had for health was accepted. Local variance demonstrated.

So we're off to the Foreign Office in Alicante tomorrow to try to apply for the TIE. We're also going to try for the Convenio Especial health system, but that's another thread!


----------



## Megsmum

Alcalaina said:


> Just applying for ours. I've downloaded the form Modelo EX-23 and the Tasa 790-012 to pay the fee beforehand (links below). For those who have already done it, is anything else required other than a valid passport and a photo? What size photo?
> 
> http://extranjeros.inclusion.gob.es/es/modelossolicitudes/mod_solicitudes2/23-TIE_RU_JUNIO_2020.pdf
> 
> https://sede.policia.gob.es:38089/Tasa790_012/ImpresoRellenar (can be completed online then printed).


Alcalaina... are the forms and website generic for the whole of Spain or is there regional differences


----------



## Joppa

Forms (Modelos) are the same, published by the central government, but supporting documents can differ depending on the province (and sometimes national police stations). I sent an email to Extranjeria in Malaga with my inquiry and they sent me by return regulations specific to Malaga Province.


----------



## Alcalaina

Megsmum said:


> Alcalaina... are the forms and website generic for the whole of Spain or is there regional differences


They are national.


----------



## snikpoh

Alcalaina said:


> Just applying for ours. I've downloaded the form Modelo EX-23 and the Tasa 790-012 to pay the fee beforehand (links below). For those who have already done it, is anything else required other than a valid passport and a photo? What size photo?
> 
> http://extranjeros.inclusion.gob.es/es/modelossolicitudes/mod_solicitudes2/23-TIE_RU_JUNIO_2020.pdf
> 
> https://sede.policia.gob.es:38089/Tasa790_012/ImpresoRellenar (can be completed online then printed).


I must have done something wrong on the 790 - it says the fee is 21,44€

Any ideas (thought it was 12€)


----------



## xabiaxica

snikpoh said:


> I must have done something wrong on the 790 - it says the fee is 21,44€
> 
> Any ideas (thought it was 12€)


You need the 790 012

https://sede.policia.gob.es:38089/T...7MGy6a6zFl15u0bEMKNpqcovGoLMIECDCteN3z1CGTLiw

It's definitely 12€


----------



## Alcalaina

xabiaxica said:


> You need the 790 012
> 
> https://sede.policia.gob.es:38089/T...7MGy6a6zFl15u0bEMKNpqcovGoLMIECDCteN3z1CGTLiw
> 
> It's definitely 12€


It's €12 for the five-year one, €21.44 for the ten-year one. Still 790-012 but you check the option "TIE que documenta la autorizacion de residencia de larga duracion" (second from botton on the list) and the correct price comes up.


----------



## Love Karma

Alcalaina said:


> It's €12 for the five-year one, €21.44 for the ten-year one. Still 790-012 but you check the option "TIE que documenta la autorizacion de residencia de larga duracion" (second from botton on the list) and the correct price comes up.


*Incorrect information you actually need the bottom one which says*


"Certificado de registro de residente comunitario o Tarjeta de residencia de familiar de un ciudadano de la Unión" 

and that then fill in payment automatically to €12.


----------



## xabiaxica

Alcalaina said:


> It's €12 for the five-year one, €21.44 for the ten-year one. Still 790-012 but you check the option "TIE que documenta la autorizacion de residencia de larga duracion" (second from botton on the list) and the correct price comes up.


nope, sorry

Several of my friends have the 'permanente' now & it's 12€ for everyone.


----------



## xabiaxica

Love Karma said:


> *Incorrect information you actually need the bottom one which says*
> 
> 
> "Certificado de registro de residente comunitario o Tarjeta de residencia de familiar de un ciudadano de la Unión"
> 
> and that then fill in payment automatically to €12.


exactly - because we're still EU under the WA, so they have to charge us as such.


----------



## Glynb

We went to Oficina de Extranjeros de Alicante and handed in the forms for the TIE. Bit of faffing about with the fingerprinting, the machine didn't like my digits for some reason, but we got there in the end. All very straight forward. 

Got there early and went to the cafe on the corner to pass the time. Cafe full of Brits, I assume all applying for Residencia/TIE etc. and passing the time like us, as you're not allowed into the Foreign Office until 15 mins prior to your appointment. 

Now just waiting to go and collect it in a couple of weeks time.


----------



## Alcalaina

xabiaxica said:


> exactly - because we're still EU under the WA, so they have to charge us as such.


I checked the wrong box then! Thanks for that, just saved me 24 euros.


----------



## Catalunya22

kaipa said:


> Surely if you are getting a 10 year TIE then it is a permanent card so you must have lived in Spain for over 5 years.So how can you have a UK driving licence?


I don´t drive in Spain...but I might in the future.


----------



## MataMata

The fingerprinting in Alicante, and presumably elsewhere, does seem very hit and miss. They had a lot of difficulty with both mine and 'er indoors'

Apparently they are taken a second time when the TIES are collected which for us is on Friday so let's see if that works any better.

Regarding driving licences, if there is _any_ chance at all that you might want to drive in Spain then change your licence now while you still can.

There is a 6 month window for residents to do that starting on Jan 1st 2021, miss it and to drive you'll need to take a Spanish test!

Don't forget that if (when) your UK licence expires as a non UK resident you won't be able to renew it so you'll be left with no licence at all and wouldn't be able to drive anywhere.


----------



## Ben2013

Hello guys.. One of the requirements for TIE is to have a health insurance.

. 1. Is the European Health insurance card (which is still valid now) acceptable or do you have to buy private Health insurance?

. 2. As I was not sure, I bought private insurance which costs me about 76 euros a month in addition to the the European Health insurance card. 
Now my application has been granted and I am Just awaiting an appointment for fingerprints. 
Am I in trouble if I cancel the private insurance which I don't need as I am covered by European health insurance? In other words, will they still require the private insurance /will they check when I go for fingerprints or when I go to collect card? Will they continue to check if I have it now that the application has been accepted. 
And what happens if someone cancels the Seguro, it It a warning or cancellation of TIE?
Judt to know my rights and duties and be on the safe side. 
Kind regards


----------



## Catalunya22

But after the end of December you won´t be covered by the EHIC.

As for cancelling your private health insurance, they don´t check that when you go for fingerprints.
I would doubt that they would find out you have cancelled it,,,but at 76 euros a month it´s not bad....especially as the EHIC will soon be useless


----------



## Megsmum

Ben2013 said:


> Hello guys.. One of the requirements for TIE is to have a health insurance.
> 
> . 1. Is the European Health insurance card (which is still valid now) acceptable or do you have to buy private Health insurance?
> 
> . 2. As I was not sure, I bought private insurance which costs me about 76 euros a month in addition to the the European Health insurance card.
> Now my application has been granted and I am Just awaiting an appointment for fingerprints.
> Am I in trouble if I cancel the private insurance which I don't need as I am covered by European health insurance? In other words, will they still require the private insurance /will they check when I go for fingerprints or when I go to collect card? Will they continue to check if I have it now that the application has been accepted.
> And what happens if someone cancels the Seguro, it It a warning or cancellation of TIE?
> Judt to know my rights and duties and be on the safe side.
> Kind regards


Do not confuse EHIC cover as being equal to Private health insurance. As a resident here you cannot or are not supposed to use a EHIC card even when holidaying abroad it’s wise to take out additional cover with the EHIC. You are only covered by EHIC for emergencies not anything else, also I would be surprised if any health insurance company would allow you to cancel an annual residencial health policy as they are normally based on an annual basis


----------



## Ben2013

Catalunia22,
I heard that the EHIC is part of the UK EU negotiations and if we are lucky, both sides may agree to keep it just like other non EU countries that are part of it.
Thank you for classifications!


----------



## Catalunya22

Possibly..but nobody knows. But as Megsmum said...it´s supposed to be used for emergencies....not just general Healthcare. (although I have to admit I did use it for quite some time before I got covered by the Spanish state).....so I can´t claim to be innocent on this.


----------



## stevesainty

Catalunya22 said:


> But after the end of December you won´t be covered by the EHIC.
> 
> As for cancelling your private health insurance, they don´t check that when you go for fingerprints.
> I would doubt that they would find out you have cancelled it,,,but at 76 euros a month it´s not bad....especially as the EHIC will soon be useless


For those covered by S1, the EHIC Cover will continue for the foreseeable future, it was part of the withdrawal agreement. It is for emergency and ongoing treatment whilst visiting other European countries.


----------



## MataMata

It's a common misconception that an EHIC is only for emergencies when in fact it covers any treatment which might become necessary during the holders stay in another participating state or country or which can't wait for them to return home. 

That of course can include a great many things which would not come under the heading of an 'emergency'.


----------



## Joppa

Yes, EHIC can include dialysis for kidney patients.


----------



## Megsmum

MataMata said:


> It's a common misconception that an EHIC is only for emergencies when in fact it covers any treatment which might become necessary during the holders stay in another participating state or country or which can't wait for them to return home.
> 
> That of course can include a great many things which would not come under the heading of an 'emergency'.





Joppa said:


> Yes, EHIC can include dialysis for kidney patients.


Ongoing yes, but if diagnosed let’s say with cancer when here, you would be initiated treated and then you would be expected to return to your own healthcare system. I’ve known people locally here who when using an EHIC ,despite being resident, had to have stitches, they were told the stitches had to be removed on their return home

I certainly would not rely on an EHIC for permanent healthcare cover in Spain 

But each to their own , I suppose


----------



## Joppa

EHIC is generally only for travellers on temporary stay, when treatment cannot be delayed until their return home, in the judgement of the medical professionals treating you. 
Students on Erasmus scheme and similar can use EHIC for their medical needs for the duration of their course, which can be a year or more.


----------



## Isobella

A relative had an eye problem whilst staying long term in Spain. He was told after initial treatment did not work that he needed to see a specialist but because waiting lists were very long he needed to seek treatment in his own country. Not sure if that is correct but some areas are interpreting the rules differently. Used to be very lax but I think as more came in the boom years the card was abused. Although the UK is billed.


----------



## Ben2013

Looking at UK government website, I found the following information which shows what is covered by the EHIC. It appears from this that it covers almost everything you need when you stay in spain, I quote:

"What's covered
The EHIC covers medically necessary state-provided healthcare at a reduced cost or, in many cases, free of charge, until your planned return home.

This includes treatment of a chronic or pre-existing medical condition that becomes necessary during your visit.

It also includes routine maternity care, as long as you're not going abroad to give birth.

But if the birth happens unexpectedly, the EHIC will cover the cost of all medical treatment linked to the birth for mother and baby.

The EHIC covers the provision of oxygen and kidney dialysis, although you'll have to arrange and pre-book these treatments before you go on holiday. You can ask a GP or hospital for advice.
The EHIC also covers routine medical care for people with pre-existing conditions that need monitoring."


----------



## stevesainty

The point I was making, regardless of what you may and may not use it for, was that is is still ongoing beyond Brexit, for those people whose healthcare costs are covered by the S1 conditions.


----------



## Megsmum

Ben2013 said:


> Looking at UK government website, I found the following information which shows what is covered by the EHIC. It appears from this that it covers almost everything you need when you stay in spain, I quote:
> 
> "What's covered
> The EHIC covers medically necessary state-provided healthcare at a reduced cost or, in many cases, free of charge, until your planned return home.
> 
> This includes treatment of a chronic or pre-existing medical condition that becomes necessary during your visit.
> 
> It also includes routine maternity care, as long as you're not going abroad to give birth.
> 
> But if the birth happens unexpectedly, the EHIC will cover the cost of all medical treatment linked to the birth for mother and baby.
> 
> The EHIC covers the provision of oxygen and kidney dialysis, although you'll have to arrange and pre-book these treatments before you go on holiday. You can ask a GP or hospital for advice.
> The EHIC also covers routine medical care for people with pre-existing conditions that need monitoring."


This ^^^^^ being the key phrase. I do not think anyone is stating the EHIC can’t be used in many different situations but it is not a replacement for residency healthcare. Staying in Spain on holiday versus residency are two very different things.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Ben2013 said:


> Looking at UK government website, I found the following information which shows what is covered by the EHIC. It appears from this that it covers almost everything you need when you stay in spain, I quote:
> 
> "What's covered
> The EHIC covers medically necessary state-provided healthcare at a reduced cost or, in many cases, free of charge, until your planned return home.
> 
> This includes treatment of a chronic or pre-existing medical condition that becomes necessary during your visit.
> 
> It also includes routine maternity care, as long as you're not going abroad to give birth.
> 
> But if the birth happens unexpectedly, the EHIC will cover the cost of all medical treatment linked to the birth for mother and baby.
> 
> The EHIC covers the provision of oxygen and kidney dialysis, although you'll have to arrange and pre-book these treatments before you go on holiday. You can ask a GP or hospital for advice.
> The EHIC also covers routine medical care for people with pre-existing conditions that need monitoring."


 Correct, but, you cannot live here, be resident in this country and use the EHIC. That is clear.


> A free card that gives you access to medically necessary, state-provided healthcare* during a temporary stay* in any of the 27 EU countries, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland and the United Kingdom, under the same conditions and at the same cost (free in some countries) as people insured in that country.


https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=559


Also important is the second part of that quote which says 



> under the same conditions and at the same cost(free in some countries) as people insured in that country


So, if you are pregnant, travel to another country and have the baby, you _may_ find yourself having to pay for an epidural, or a cesarean for example as this is may not be covered in the country you are having the baby in.
Just an example


----------



## xabiaxica

stevesainty said:


> The point I was making, regardless of what you may and may not use it for, was that is is still ongoing beyond Brexit, for those people whose healthcare costs are covered by the S1 conditions.


It is, that's true.

But not for use in your country of residence.


----------



## Relyat

Could anyone who has applied for the TIE confirm the size of the photo please?

Alternatively, a pointer to an official source for the size would be helpful.

Thanks


----------



## xabiaxica

Relyat said:


> Could anyone who has applied for the TIE confirm the size of the photo please?
> 
> Alternatively, a pointer to an official source for the size would be helpful.
> 
> Thanks


There's a link to the official info on the first post of our FAQ sticky thread.


----------



## Catalunya22

Relyat said:


> Could anyone who has applied for the TIE confirm the size of the photo please?
> 
> Alternatively, a pointer to an official source for the size would be helpful.
> 
> Thanks



32 X 26 mm


----------



## Relyat

Thanks both.

I thought that I'd be able to use a couple left over from my driving licence exchange, but it seems not.


----------



## Joppa

Same as Spanish national's DNI size, 26x32 mm.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

xabiaxica said:


> There's a link to the official info on the first post of our FAQ sticky thread.


Lots of links dead in that first post xabia


----------



## xabiaxica

Pesky Wesky said:


> Lots of links dead in that first post xabia


I do check them periodically - that one works though!


----------



## Roy C

Mine isn't exactly TIE as I'm going for EU type residencia being irish but the goalposts keep moving. I'm being told I need to produce recent utility bill's to prove we actually live here. Normally that wouldn't be a problem but due to the pandemic we couldn't get here until now. I need to produce bank statements from my spanish bank and get them translated   (that did make me laugh) to prove we've been here and shopping, really? Now I know I want to live in Spain and I do respect the rules but why the moving of the goal posts? Do they not want people retiring over here. I have no problem proving my income and ownership of the house but this is now starting to sound petty. I'm just about to invest 2.5k in healthcare which we now might not need as I can't prove I've been shopping in Mercadona in June, July and August, when actually it's a contradiction because I shouldn't be here now if I was here during those months because of the 90 day rule! Now rant over and thinking cap on 
I'm going for normal my wife has to do TIE


----------



## kaipa

RoyC - it does sound excessive but I assume you arent retired? It is irrelevant how long you have been here. You can register from day one. What they need to see is that you have sufficient funds and normally state pensions plus property is sufficient. If you arent retired they will need proof of funds hence the bank accounts but they dont normally need you to prove you have lived here for any number of months


----------



## Catalunya22

Does anyone know if you have a work pension paid into your uk account every month, do they need a translation of your bank statements?
Indeed, it would be difficult to translate a uk statement into spanish...it´s just numbers and a brief description of the transaction


----------



## snikpoh

Catalunya22 said:


> Does anyone know if you have a work pension paid into your uk account every month, do they need a translation of your bank statements?
> Indeed, it would be difficult to translate a uk statement into spanish...it´s just numbers and a brief description of the transaction


Some (many?) insist the money is in a Spanish bank - this is where the money ultimately needs to be and also overcomes any translation issues.


----------



## Lynn R

snikpoh said:


> Some (many?) insist the money is in a Spanish bank - this is where the money ultimately needs to be and also overcomes any translation issues.


That can be a problem sometimes, though, as not all pension providers will pay directly to an overseas account. My largest occupational pension will only pay into a UK account, and so would my SIPP if I took any income out of it.


----------



## Lunes2020

Roy C said:


> Mine isn't exactly TIE as I'm going for EU type residencia being irish but the goalposts keep moving. I'm being told I need to produce recent utility bill's to prove we actually live here. Normally that wouldn't be a problem but due to the pandemic we couldn't get here until now. I need to produce bank statements from my spanish bank and get them translated   (that did make me laugh) to prove we've been here and shopping, really? Now I know I want to live in Spain and I do respect the rules but why the moving of the goal posts? Do they not want people retiring over here. I have no problem proving my income and ownership of the house but this is now starting to sound petty. I'm just about to invest 2.5k in healthcare which we now might not need as I can't prove I've been shopping in Mercadona in June, July and August, when actually it's a contradiction because I shouldn't be here now if I was here during those months because of the 90 day rule! Now rant over and thinking cap on
> I'm going for normal my wife has to do TIE[/QUOTE
> 
> Are you doing yourself or just some lawyer told you all these strange requirements?
> 
> I remembered six years ago we were told we need .(We did not work).
> 
> 1. Bank document confirm the average balance for the past 90 days. Your bank should be able to give to you in a few days
> 
> 2. Certificado de empadronamiento. You can bring your title of deed and go to ayuntamiento to register or do it online if you have a digital certificate to access
> 
> 3. Private insurance
> 
> 4. Birth certificate or marriage certificate in case for kids or spouse


----------



## kaipa

Roy C. When you say they told you about receipts etc was it in English or Spanish?. Sometimes if they the person is trying to explain in English things can get a bit mixed up.


----------



## Roy C

kaipa said:


> RoyC - it does sound excessive but I assume you arent retired? It is irrelevant how long you have been here. You can register from day one. What they need to see is that you have sufficient funds and normally state pensions plus property is sufficient. If you arent retired they will need proof of funds hence the bank accounts but they dont normally need you to prove you have lived here for any number of months



Hi thanks my circumstances are, I'm early retired, I own my own home in Spain, I have more than sufficient funds coming in with my occupational pension and I will have full private healthcare but now all these additional demands are apparently being made. I'm now starting to think is it really worth the hassle.


----------



## Roy C

Catalunya22 said:


> Does anyone know if you have a work pension paid into your uk account every month, do they need a translation of your bank statements?
> Indeed, it would be difficult to translate a uk statement into spanish...it´s just numbers and a brief description of the transaction


That's another one I've been told, translate numbers to Spanish, the letters are abbreviations so go figure?


----------



## Roy C

kaipa said:


> Roy C. When you say they told you about receipts etc was it in English or Spanish?. Sometimes if they the person is trying to explain in English things can get a bit mixed up.


It's a relocation agent who has lived in the UK and is Spanish but is fluent in English. She deals with a lot of these cases. I'm now thinking of getting my Spanish lawyer to do it, if I continue with it.


----------



## kaipa

Roy C said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> 
> RoyC - it does sound excessive but I assume you arent retired? It is irrelevant how long you have been here. You can register from day one. What they need to see is that you have sufficient funds and normally state pensions plus property is sufficient. If you arent retired they will need proof of funds hence the bank accounts but they dont normally need you to prove you have lived here for any number of months
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi thanks my circumstances are, I'm early retired, I own my own home in Spain, I have more than sufficient funds coming in with my occupational pension and I will have full private healthcare but now all these additional demands are apparently being made. I'm now starting to think is it really worth the hassle.
Click to expand...

You say you have been told. Who told you this? The funcionario when you went to the office or some 3rd party? If you have healthcare in place, own a property and money in a spanish account I cant see what the problem is? If you have been refused your application you should just get a local gestor to do it for you, it is by far the easiest thing to do as they normally have good relations with these places. If you dont speak Spanish dont do it yourself it often ends up with difficulties.


----------



## Megsmum

Catalunya22 said:


> Does anyone know if you have a work pension paid into your uk account every month, do they need a translation of your bank statements?
> Indeed, it would be difficult to translate a uk statement into spanish...it´s just numbers and a brief description of the transaction





Roy C said:


> That's another one I've been told, translate numbers to Spanish, the letters are abbreviations so go figure?


We had to do this when we got our permanent residency after five years 

It was not a translation of the actual statement but a translation Of the statement of account 
Basically it stated te date and the balance of funds available. 
We also had to have my NHS pension statement translated 
Both our birth and marriage certificates 
Ironically, non of which we were asked for seven years ago when we first arrived!


----------



## Lunes2020

Roy C said:


> It's a relocation agent who has lived in the UK and is Spanish but is fluent in English. She deals with a lot of these cases. I'm now thinking of getting my Spanish lawyer to do it, if I continue with it.


I do not think you got the right person to help.

Just make an appointment with the POLICIA NATIONAL through https://sede.administracionespublicas.gob.es/. 

If you have a Spanish bank, make sure the balance is above 5000 euros for the last 90 days or even one year. Your spanish bank certainly can prove you have enough money to live on. 

You actually do not need any document from your foreign bank.

You do have to register PADRON. It does not matter you own the property or rent from others. 

The lawyer or agent sometime make things more complicated. We originally use a lawyer and she could not get it done. We did ourselves. It is very straight forward for EU citizen.


----------



## Lunes2020

kaipa said:


> You say you have been told. Who told you this? The funcionario when you went to the office or some 3rd party? If you have healthcare in place, own a property and money in a spanish account I cant see what the problem is? If you have been refused your application you should just get a local gestor to do it for you, it is by far the easiest thing to do as they normally have good relations with these places. If you dont speak Spanish dont do it yourself it often ends up with difficulties.


The man in the immigration office wrote a list what we missed. We went to the bank and get it in 3 days!


----------



## kaipa

Roy C said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Roy C. When you say they told you about receipts etc was it in English or Spanish?. Sometimes if they the person is trying to explain in English things can get a bit mixed up.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a relocation agent who has lived in the UK and is Spanish but is fluent in English. She deals with a lot of these cases. I'm now thinking of getting my Spanish lawyer to do it, if I continue with it.
Click to expand...


If you say this person has done lots of these things and deals with your local office then I'm afraid that will be the requirements. You have a EU passport so there is no rush as you dont need to do it until 90 days ( no one is counting if EU) so just start living here. I wouldn't worry I was refused first time. Spain doesnt really do things quite by the book I am afraid.


----------



## Roy C

kaipa said:


> You say you have been told. Who told you this? The funcionario when you went to the office or some 3rd party? If you have healthcare in place, own a property and money in a spanish account I cant see what the problem is? If you have been refused your application you should just get a local gestor to do it for you, it is by far the easiest thing to do as they normally have good relations with these places. If you dont speak Spanish dont do it yourself it often ends up with difficulties.


No we haven't been refused, we haven't applied yet. I'm using a relocation agent who has given me the requirements we will need to meet, which does seem a bit of a contradiction, ie evidence you've been living here for 3 months when officially you shouldn't be here after 90 days. I'm now thinking of Portugal as an alternative.


----------



## kaipa

Roy C said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> 
> You say you have been told. Who told you this? The funcionario when you went to the office or some 3rd party? If you have healthcare in place, own a property and money in a spanish account I cant see what the problem is? If you have been refused your application you should just get a local gestor to do it for you, it is by far the easiest thing to do as they normally have good relations with these places. If you dont speak Spanish dont do it yourself it often ends up with difficulties.
> 
> 
> 
> No we haven't been refused, we haven't applied yet. I'm using a relocation agent who has given me the requirements we will need to meet, which does seem a bit of a contradiction, ie evidence you've been living here for 3 months when officially you shouldn't be here after 90 days. I'm now thinking of Portugal as an alternative.
Click to expand...

Unless this relocation agent is actually in the place where you are living I would forget her advice. Get a local Spanish gestor to represent you and make an appointment. It really shouldnt be difficult if you have got private healthcare and a reasonably healthy Spanish account. I assume you are in Spain and not trying to do it from UK?


----------



## Roy C

kaipa said:


> Unless this relocation agent is actually in the place where you are living I would forget her advice. Get a local Spanish gestor to represent you and make an appointment. It really shouldnt be difficult if you have got private healthcare and a reasonably healthy Spanish account. I assume you are in Spain and not trying to do it from UK?


I'm in Spain but only arrived back last week waiting for things to settle with covid. I might get my Spanish lawyer to do it, if I go ahead with it.


----------



## Phil Squares

Roy C said:


> It's a relocation agent who has lived in the UK and is Spanish but is fluent in English. She deals with a lot of these cases. I'm now thinking of getting my Spanish lawyer to do it, if I continue with it.


I have a similar background to citizenship as you do. Went through that process about 3 1/2 years ago. But my wife was a US citizen and we too had been living in the UK. But after the hassle we went through getting her PR in the UK we hired an attorney in Madrid to handle the process. 

Personally, I wouldn't listen to the relocation agent in the UK for a variety of reasons, but that is just my opinion. A couple of things struck me about your post. 

First, just in case you are married, we were asked for a marriage certificate. We had been married for over 30 years and had the original. That wasn't good enough! It had to be less than 5 years old and had to be translated with an apostle. Just be prepared for that. 

Secondly, for our finances, it was not an issue if we had a UK bank, US bank or Spanish bank. If it was not a Spanish bank the statement had to be translated. That's what they want, so the path of least resistance is just to provide it. Being somewhat sceptical of releasing financial data, we just provided enough of our data to satisfy the authorities. But, even though it wasn't specified anyplace at all, they wanted to see an account with an average balance of 20,000 Euros over 3 months. That was in addition to the monthly income. So, not knowing where you are doing the paperwork, just be prepared for some "strange" requests. 

One thing you might want to be aware of, at least we had to comply with, is the translations have to be done by someone on the list of approved translators. I can tell you upfront, it wasn't cheap. We just provided out attorney with all the documents she requested and that was the end of it. 

For us the process was painless. We were not asked to produce any other documents and non were asked for. It wasn't exactly cheap but it was worth it.


----------



## Catalunya22

For information....If you were born or married in the UK and need a translation of your birth or marriage certificate you can get them from the registry office in the UK. So you get your birth/marriage certificate in its original form (English), plus a translation. It´s a relatively new service and from memory cost me about a tenner each.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Catalunya22 said:


> For information....If you were born or married in the UK and need a translation of your birth or marriage certificate you can get them from the registry office in the UK. So you get your birth/marriage certificate in its original form (English), plus a translation. It´s a relatively new service and from memory cost me about a tenner each.


Wow, that's great!


----------



## Catalunya22

Pesky Wesky said:


> Wow, that's great!


Always handy to have. Saves a fortune on translation fees.


----------



## Nick BCN

I am at the final step of my TIE application and need to collect my card at Rambla de Guipúscoa, 74 in Barcelona. I am unable to get an appointment to collect my card for two weeks now! Has anyone had any experience with scheduling collection appointment in Barcelona? I don't think I can just walk in... Sigh. I wonder what the deadline for collecting TIE is.


----------



## Catalunya22

Nick BCN said:


> I am at the final step of my TIE application and need to collect my card at Rambla de Guipúscoa, 74 in Barcelona. I am unable to get an appointment to collect my card for two weeks now! Has anyone had any experience with scheduling collection appointment in Barcelona? I don't think I can just walk in... Sigh. I wonder what the deadline for collecting TIE is.


I collected my card from there last week.

What date did you do your fingerprinting?

The website won´t let you make an appointment until your card is ready.

Tell me the date you did your fingerprinting and I will get back to you.


----------



## Nick BCN

Congrats on getting your card! I did my fingerprints on July 6th... When I try to book collection appointment I can see random immigration offices around Catalonia but not the one in BCN. 

Did you book your appointment via the main Cita Previa portal and chose "Policia- Recogida de Tarjeata" service? 
Many thanks for your reply!


----------



## Nick BCN

Fingerprints were taken on August 6th! not July. I think I am loosing my mind with this process


----------



## Ilovepatnevin

Nick BCN said:


> I am at the final step of my TIE application and need to collect my card at Rambla de Guipúscoa, 74 in Barcelona. I am unable to get an appointment to collect my card for two weeks now! Has anyone had any experience with scheduling collection appointment in Barcelona? I don't think I can just walk in... Sigh. I wonder what the deadline for collecting TIE is.


I had the same problem of there being no appointments available on the online booking system.
In the end I just turned up and explained to the funcionarios that I only wanted to collect the card. They were very helpful and let me go the next available counter when it became available. The whole process of took no more than five minutes.


----------



## Nick BCN

Have you collected from the same counters your fingerprints were taken? I wonder If I should try to do the same. Someone told me they will not even talk to me if I show up without an appointment...


----------



## Catalunya22

Nick BCN said:


> Congrats on getting your card! I did my fingerprints on July 6th... When I try to book collection appointment I can see random immigration offices around Catalonia but not the one in BCN.
> 
> Did you book your appointment via the main Cita Previa portal and chose "Policia- Recogida de Tarjeata" service?
> Many thanks for your reply!



Yes I did use that service.
I did my fingerprints on 12th August and they told me my card would be ready in 4 or 5 weeks. They specifically said that they would NOT inform me when my card was ready but I should try to make an appointment after 4 or 5 weeks had elapsed.

Me being impatient I tried after ten days. No appointments available. On day 13 I was trying for 6 hours on my computer for an appointment. Eventually an appointment at Guiposca came up but the site wouldn´t let me make that appointment. So I then assumed that you could not make an appointment until your card was ready. I assumed that someone would log in each day and input the names of those whose cards were ready...if that makes sense.
On day 14 I was passing my computer and thought I will try again. Immediately an appointment came up on the first go. The system then let me make that appointment and I picked the card up on 3rd September.
If you did your fingerprints in July I would have thought your card would be ready...especially because I did mine in August,.
I don´t know about a time limit...but the piece of paper they gave you is valid for 45 days.
But that is only if the Police should ask you for ID or proof of residence...which is unlikely.
I don´t think it means you have to pick your card up within 45 days.
However, I don´t know why your card is not ready. As you say, they will NOT see you without an appointment.
I would suggest phoning them...but I think you will get an automated message and not be able to speak to anyone.
To be honest I don´t know what to suggest you do now.


----------



## Catalunya22

Nick BCN said:


> Have you collected from the same counters your fingerprints were taken? I wonder If I should try to do the same. Someone told me they will not even talk to me if I show up without an appointment...


Nick...No. The place where you pick up your card is on a lower floor. If you stand directly in the middle of the Police station outside you will see a flagpole and in front of that a roadway which takes you down a floor....that is where you go...if that makes sense.
If you don´t have an appointment they are NOT interested and send you away.


----------



## Nick BCN

Catalunya22 said:


> Yes I did use that service.
> I did my fingerprints on 12th August and they told me my card would be ready in 4 or 5 weeks. They specifically said that they would NOT inform me when my card was ready but I should try to make an appointment after 4 or 5 weeks had elapsed.
> 
> Me being impatient I tried after ten days. No appointments available. On day 13 I was trying for 6 hours on my computer for an appointment. Eventually an appointment at Guiposca came up but the site wouldn´t let me make that appointment. So I then assumed that you could not make an appointment until your card was ready. I assumed that someone would log in each day and input the names of those whose cards were ready...if that makes sense.
> On day 14 I was passing my computer and thought I will try again. Immediately an appointment came up on the first go. The system then let me make that appointment and I picked the card up on 3rd September.
> If you did your fingerprints in July I would have thought your card would be ready...especially because I did mine in August,.
> I don´t know about a time limit...but the piece of paper they gave you is valid for 45 days.
> But that is only if the Police should ask you for ID or proof of residence...which is unlikely.
> I don´t think it means you have to pick your card up within 45 days.
> However, I don´t know why your card is not ready. As you say, they will NOT see you without an appointment.
> I would suggest phoning them...but I think you will get an automated message and not be able to speak to anyone.
> To be honest I don´t know what to suggest you do now.


Thank you in any case! All useful info


----------



## Catalunya22

Ilovepatnevin said:


> I had the same problem of there being no appointments available on the online booking system.
> In the end I just turned up and explained to the funcionarios that I only wanted to collect the card. They were very helpful and let me go the next available counter when it became available. The whole process of took no more than five minutes.


You have a much better experience with them than I did then.


----------



## Catalunya22

Nick BCN said:


> Thank you in any case! All useful info


See the message from llovepatnevin...He said he just turned up and was let in..
Maybe you should give it a try.


----------



## Catalunya22

I guess it depends on who you speak to and what mood they are in on that particular day.

Although I had an appointment they were pretty offhandish with me.


----------



## Nick BCN

Catalunya22 said:


> See the message from llovepatnevin...He said he just turned up and was let in..
> Maybe you should give it a try.


I will try. I guess it does depend who you talk to. I will keep trying to book an appointment at the same time... Long days in front of my computers ahead


----------



## Catalunya22

Nick BCN said:


> I will try. I guess it does depend who you talk to. I will keep trying to book an appointment at the same time... Long days in front of my computers ahead


And don´t forget after you have your Residence card you might want to think about changing your driving licence (if you have one) from UK to Spanish before the end of the year.


----------



## Relyat

Relyat said:


> Could anyone who has applied for the TIE confirm the size of the photo please?
> 
> Alternatively, a pointer to an official source for the size would be helpful.
> 
> Thanks


If anyone's interested......

The link in the sticky only mentions that it has to be the standard size prescribed by the Govt, without a further link to that.
I'd seen mention of 26x32mm previously and it seemed improbably small, smaller that a DL photo.

Not wanting to spend hours on a possibly fruitless chase through the Spanish Government's area of the internet I took a walk to town and went to the local photographic shop.
As expected they were very obliging and in exchange for 6 Euros I came out with a number of snaps, one specifically cropped for the TIE.....it's size? * 30x40mm* - the same size as the DL photo !
That was duly accepted today and I return in three weeks to collect the card.


----------



## MataMata

Official photo size is 28x36, you might get away with something else but that's a chance you take at your own risk.

BTW the photo is scanned by the same machine which takes your fingerprints and is then returned.


----------



## MataMata

Catalunya22 said:


> And don´t forget after you have your Residence card you might want to think about changing your driving licence (if you have one) from UK to Spanish before the end of the year.


Those applying for residency from June 1st. (introduction of the TIE) have a 6 month window from Jan 1st. to exchange a licence. 

I don't believe the same applies to those resident prior to Jue 1st. who have had ample notice of the need to do so so for them the 'drop dead' date remains Dec 31st.


----------



## Relyat

MataMata said:


> Official photo size is 28x36,.


Obviously close enough to the one that I was provided with by someone who does this day in, day out.


----------



## Alcalaina

Relyat said:


> If anyone's interested......
> 
> The link in the sticky only mentions that it has to be the standard size prescribed by the Govt, without a further link to that.
> I'd seen mention of 26x32mm previously and it seemed improbably small, smaller that a DL photo.
> 
> Not wanting to spend hours on a possibly fruitless chase through the Spanish Government's area of the internet I took a walk to town and went to the local photographic shop.
> As expected they were very obliging and in exchange for 6 Euros I came out with a number of snaps, one specifically cropped for the TIE.....it's size? * 30x40mm* - the same size as the DL photo !
> That was duly accepted today and I return in three weeks to collect the card.


Thanks for that - I'll take both sizes just in case!

Although it does clearly say 26 x 32 on the Policia website.



> Fotografía reciente en color del rostro del solicitante,* tamaño 32x26 milímetros*, con fondo uniforme blanco y liso, tomada de frente con la cabeza totalmente descubierta y sin gafas de cristales oscuros o cualquier otra prenda que pueda impedir o dificultar la identificación de la persona. (La fotografía deberá mostrar claramente el óvalo de la cara, que incluye cejas, ojos, nariz, boca y mentón, y deberá ser de alta resolución y en papel fotográfico de buena calidad).


----------



## Joppa

Catalunya22 said:


> For information....If you were born or married in the UK and need a translation of your birth or marriage certificate you can get them from the registry office in the UK. So you get your birth/marriage certificate in its original form (English), plus a translation. It´s a relatively new service and from memory cost me about a tenner each.


Yes, it is convenient but GRO has a backlog and it took me over 2 months to get a multilingual (Spanish in this case) marriage certificate (applied in June, received in August), so beware.


----------



## Nick BCN

Just in case anyone needs this information. I have finally managed to book an appointment for TIE collection in Barcelona. It was not easy. I was able to book appointment around 10 am on Thursday for next week. I did try to go to the police station and explain how difficult it was to book an appointment in Barcelona but they were not remotely interested and had no intention to help. Good luck everyone.


----------



## Catalunya22

Nick BCN said:


> Just in case anyone needs this information. I have finally managed to book an appointment for TIE collection in Barcelona. It was not easy. I was able to book appointment around 10 am on Thursday for next week. I did try to go to the police station and explain how difficult it was to book an appointment in Barcelona but they were not remotely interested and had no intention to help. Good luck everyone.


Hi Nick...Glad that you got an appointment.
The person on here who just turned up was extremely lucky.
When I collected mine they were so rude to me. Seems to be normal with public officials....So off-hand and unhelpful.


----------



## TanGem

Picked up via another Forum that many of the new T.I.E cards issued to people are WRONG with incorrect wording 
*
Members - we have alerted the British Embassy in Madrid with regards to the wrongly worded TIEs. So far, we know these cards have been issued in Tenerife, Alicante, Málaga and Galicia. We have been asked by the Embassy to inform them of any developments and we are working closely with them to resolve this so we will update asap but in the meantime, to assess the scale of this, please check your new TIEs and let us know if it says your permission is as a family member of an EU citizen and not in your own right (unless you really are piggy-backing on a family member's right). Thank you*


----------



## Catalunya22

TanGem said:


> Picked up via another Forum that many of the new T.I.E cards issued to people are WRONG with incorrect wording
> *
> Members - we have alerted the British Embassy in Madrid with regards to the wrongly worded TIEs. So far, we know these cards have been issued in Tenerife, Alicante, Málaga and Galicia. We have been asked by the Embassy to inform them of any developments and we are working closely with them to resolve this so we will update asap but in the meantime, to assess the scale of this, please check your new TIEs and let us know if it says your permission is as a family member of an EU citizen and not in your own right (unless you really are piggy-backing on a family member's right). Thank you*


Well mine was issued in Barcelona under my own right. I am married to a Spaniard but they didn´t want any details of that. Just MY details.
My TIE card says "Residence card of a family member of a Union Citizen" though.

Is that correct?


----------



## TanGem

Catalunya22 said:


> Well mine was issued in Barcelona under my own right. I am married to a Spaniard but they didn´t want any details of that. Just MY details.
> My TIE card says "Residence card of a family member of a Union Citizen" though.
> 
> Is that correct?


I'm no expert...just passing on what I read elsewhere. But reading what I posted I'd say your card is incorrect....but only my opinion....don't quote me.


----------



## kaipa

Surely if the card says you have right of residence based on family connection it means your application was granted on that condition. ?If you applied as an individual then you have the wrong wording. Not sure how it might affect you in the long run if that is how all your details are recorded.


----------



## Catalunya22

TanGem said:


> I'm no expert...just passing on what I read elsewhere. But reading what I posted I'd say your card is incorrect....but only my opinion....don't quote me.


But if I am married to a Spanish citizen...although they didn´t ask for a marriage certificate or anything like that.....I suppose it´s ok. No?

p.s. The healthcare details I gave them showed I was covered under the Spanish Health Service as a result of that marriage though.


I assume if everyones cards are wrong people will be posting on here if they hear any news.


----------



## kaipa

Catalunya22 said:


> TanGem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm no expert...just passing on what I read elsewhere. But reading what I posted I'd say your card is incorrect....but only my opinion....don't quote me.
> 
> 
> 
> But if I am married to a Spanish citizen...although they didn´t ask for a marriage certificate or anything like that.....I suppose it´s ok. No?
> 
> p.s. The healthcare details I gave them showed I was covered under the Spanish Health Service as a result of that marriage though.
> 
> 
> I assume if everyones cards are wrong people will be posting on here if they hear any news.
Click to expand...

I assume it's fine although there must be a reason that they state the conditions on the card or else why do they write it?.Better make sure you dont divorce!! ( that's a joke)


----------



## Catalunya22

TanGem said:


> Picked up via another Forum that many of the new T.I.E cards issued to people are WRONG with incorrect wording
> *
> Members - we have alerted the British Embassy in Madrid with regards to the wrongly worded TIEs. So far, we know these cards have been issued in Tenerife, Alicante, Málaga and Galicia. We have been asked by the Embassy to inform them of any developments and we are working closely with them to resolve this so we will update asap but in the meantime, to assess the scale of this, please check your new TIEs and let us know if it says your permission is as a family member of an EU citizen and not in your own right (unless you really are piggy-backing on a family member's right). Thank you*


Are they all saying "Residence Card of a Family Member of a Union Citizen" then?


----------



## TanGem

TanGem said:


> I'm no expert...just passing on what I read elsewhere. But reading what I posted I'd say your card is incorrect....but only my opinion....don't quote me.


wrong quote


----------



## TanGem

Catalunya22 said:


> Are they all saying "Residence Card of a Family Member of a Union Citizen" then?


Not a clue as to whether ALL but people are posting on another forum Specifically to do with Brexit matters such as T.I.E cards that they have wrong wording.
The forum is a FB site ie competitor to here so cannot link...its had 280 comments in 3 hrs


----------



## TanGem

Catalunya22 said:


> Are they all saying "Residence Card of a Family Member of a Union Citizen" then?


Xabichica has just set up a specific thread dealing with this


----------



## Roy C

Has anyone heard of this.
I decided to contact my lawyer about doing the TIE for my wife and residencia for me. K was told they do a computerised version in which we have to sign the consent form, it's done via the department of foreigners with only going to the police station for fingerprints, handing in photos and collecting the card. It's more expens6but sounds a bit less complicated.
Has anyone heard of this method before?

I previously posted this in the wrong thread, sorry mods.


----------



## Megsmum

Roy C said:


> Has anyone heard of this.
> I decided to contact my lawyer about doing the TIE for my wife and residencia for me. K was told they do a computerised version in which we have to sign the consent form, it's done via the department of foreigners with only going to the police station for fingerprints, handing in photos and collecting the card. It's more expens6but sounds a bit less complicated.
> Has anyone heard of this method before?
> 
> I previously posted this in the wrong thread, sorry mods.


I replied in other thread!


----------



## Alcalaina

We applied for our TIEs at the Extranjeria in Cádiz this morning. Next-day appointments are available, and you can choose the time. We were told to make another appointment in one month to pick them up.

The photos can be any size but your face must fit in a frame measuring 26 x 32 mm. That's what appears on the card.

As well as the completed EX23 and proof of payment, you need to take originals and photocopies of your passport and certificado de residencia. Nothing else. No questions re income or healthcare status. On the cita previa website it says you need to take your padrón certificate if you have moved within the past three months, but we weren't asked about this.

The fingerprints were taken then and there; it took a while because the machine wasn't working properly. Only my thumb gave a readable print. We joked that an ink pad would have been easier...

All in all pretty straightforward, took about ten minutes. Now we just have to wait and see whether they have the correct wording!


----------



## SonicToo

*How much dollar?*



xabiaxica said:


> T
> 
> Anyone not yet registered fills in EX20 & has to show healthcare provision & income under current EU citizen requirements.


Hi. Do you know the official amounts that you need to earn per month as an EU (and non EU) citizen? Or alternatively have in the bank (should that be an option)?

As a UK citizen I'm trying to weigh up options. Try and rush through a residency application before 31st December (which I heard is difficult).
Or chill and wait until it all settles down and apply as a non EU citizen sometime on 2021.


----------



## kaipa

SonicToo said:


> xabiaxica said:
> 
> 
> 
> T
> 
> Anyone not yet registered fills in EX20 & has to show healthcare provision & income under current EU citizen requirements.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi. Do you know the official amounts that you need to earn per month as an EU (and non EU) citizen? Or alternatively have in the bank (should that be an option)?
> 
> As a UK citizen I'm trying to weigh up options. Try and rush through a residency application before 31st December (which I heard is difficult).
> Or chill and wait until it all settles down and apply as a non EU citizen sometime on 2021.
Click to expand...

There are alot of threads about this. Basically official amounts dont really apply in practice as it seems to vary from office to office etc however an average seems to suggest that around 9,000 euros in a Spanish account would probably suffice for a EU member. After 31st December we can only assume that as UK would be a 3rd country then the amount would be around 30,000 euros. Either way it is a big difference and remember the non EU amount is meant to indicate an income not a savings. You would also need to have private medical insurance and possible visas. It is still a bit unclear but it seems certain that the ability to live as a resident in Spain will be harder and more expensive.


----------



## Glynb

kaipa said:


> There are alot of threads about this. Basically official amounts dont really apply in practice as it seems to vary from office to office etc however an average seems to suggest that around 9,000 euros in a Spanish account would probably suffice for a EU member. After 31st December we can only assume that as UK would be a 3rd country then the amount would be around 30,000 euros. Either way it is a big difference and remember the non EU amount is meant to indicate an income not a savings. You would also need to have private medical insurance and possible visas. It is still a bit unclear but it seems certain that the ability to live as a resident in Spain will be harder and more expensive.


The bottom line is it depends how wealthy you are. If you only have a modest income or pension, then you'd best get your skates on and apply this year, or risk not being able to meet the higher income and savings requirements of non-EU applicants from 2021.

If you're above average earnings/savings, then you could wait and see if there's some reciprocal agreement, which means UK citizens aren't treated like applicants from non-EU countries and might be given more favourable terms. The way the negotiations are going currently I wouldn't bet on this personally.

If you can get together £500k (UK property sale ?), I believe you can come in with the family on a golden investor visa.


----------



## Alcalaina

Alcalaina said:


> We applied for our TIEs at the Extranjeria in Cádiz this morning. Next-day appointments are available, and you can choose the time. We were told to make another appointment in one month to pick them up.
> 
> ... All in all pretty straightforward, took about ten minutes. Now we just have to wait and see whether they have the correct wording!



Well it appears I spoke too soon - just checked the document I was given for collecting the card and it relates to the Moroccan woman who was seen before me. Goodness knows who's got mine. I'm going to write to them now rather than just turn up in a month's time and hope for the best.

The moral of this story - check the paperwork before you leave the office!


----------



## Glynb

Alcalaina said:


> Well it appears I spoke too soon - just checked the document I was given for collecting the card and it relates to the Moroccan woman who was seen before me. Goodness knows who's got mine. I'm going to write to them now rather than just turn up in a month's time and hope for the best.
> 
> The moral of this story - check the paperwork before you leave the office!


Good grief! Noted. I'll definitely be checking mine in front of the functionary!


----------



## SonicToo

kaipa said:


> There are alot of threads about this. Basically official amounts dont really apply in practice as it seems to vary from office to office etc however an average seems to suggest that around 9,000 euros in a Spanish account would probably suffice for a EU member. After 31st December we can only assume that as UK would be a 3rd country then the amount would be around 30,000 euros. Either way it is a big difference and remember the non EU amount is meant to indicate an income not a savings. You would also need to have private medical insurance and possible visas. It is still a bit unclear but it seems certain that the ability to live as a resident in Spain will be harder and more expensive.


I'd better get my skates on then. As I have no income . . . 
Though especially because of the Covid situation this year it seems more difficult than ever. I hope 12 weeks will be enough time (and hopefully no impending lockdown 2 - as I heard there was a proper lockdown in Spain - not like the pseudo one here in Blighty).


----------



## Megsmum

SonicToo said:


> I'd better get my skates on then. As I have no income . . .
> Though especially because of the Covid situation this year it seems more difficult than ever. I hope 12 weeks will be enough time (and hopefully no impending lockdown 2 - as I heard there was a proper lockdown in Spain - not like the pseudo one here in Blighty).


With no income...... how will you survive, without being to prying!


----------



## Ben2013

If you have sufficient funds in a Spanish bank all the rest is irrelevant. You have the right to live in Spain without the need to work there or receive a pension there. I'm British and when I applied they never requested utility bills.. Just bank statements to prove I have + 7000 euros and health insurance in addition of course to proof I own property in Spain.


----------



## Catalunya22

Alcalaina said:


> Well it appears I spoke too soon - just checked the document I was given for collecting the card and it relates to the Moroccan woman who was seen before me. Goodness knows who's got mine. I'm going to write to them now rather than just turn up in a month's time and hope for the best.
> 
> The moral of this story - check the paperwork before you leave the office!


You´ll have to emigrate to Morocco and have a sex change then


----------



## Catalunya22

Ben2013 said:


> If you have sufficient funds in a Spanish bank all the rest is irrelevant. You have the right to live in Spain without the need to work there or receive a pension there. I'm British and when I applied they never requested utility bills.. Just bank statements to prove I have + 7000 euros and health insurance in addition of course to proof I own property in Spain.


I know what you are saying Ben...but each office does things differently.
I was the same as you, and all I gave them was a letter signed and stamped by my bank saying how much was in there. It didn´t even say how LONG it had been there.

And it all depends on the person you see...and whether it is a Tuesday or a Wednesday, and what kind of mood they are in.


----------



## SonicToo

Catalunya22 said:


> I know what you are saying Ben...but each office does things differently.
> I was the same as you, and all I gave them was a letter signed and stamped by my bank saying how much was in there. It didn´t even say how LONG it had been there.
> 
> And it all depends on the person you see...and whether it is a Tuesday or a Wednesday, and what kind of mood they are in.


I presume that you can apply two times if for any reason the person in a bad mood rejects your application?


----------



## Catalunya22

SonicToo said:


> I presume that you can apply two times if for any reason the person in a bad mood rejects your application?


I guess you could try. Good luck anyway.


----------



## Relyat

As long as you can get another appointment, not a problem.

I was rejected, Mrs R went the following day with the same paperwork, saw the same clerk I had seen and was accepted!! I booked the next available appointment which was a couple of weeks later, attended with the same paperwork again and was accepted. 

Luck of the draw


----------



## SonicToo

Relyat said:


> As long as you can get another appointment, not a problem.
> 
> I was rejected, Mrs R went the following day with the same paperwork, saw the same clerk I had seen and was accepted!! I booked the next available appointment which was a couple of weeks later, attended with the same paperwork again and was accepted.
> 
> Luck of the draw


Perhaps I should invest in a good wig as it appears some cross-dressing might be needed.


----------



## Ben2013

I agree.. The system in Spain may turn out to be too complicated.. That's why I decided in the end to turn to solicitors. I found a reliable and cheap Solicitor who helped me complete the application.
They may try and make things hard for you if you turn up alone/ being from another country. But trust me, it is completely different when you use a solicitor who knows the law there.. They could do their own thing and they would have to stick to the rules.
A Spanish citizen himself advised me to turn to solicitors to speed up the process and avoid difficulties individuals usually encounter.


----------



## Phil Squares

We used an attorney who was located in Madrid. We really didn't know where we wanted to settle but had a general idea. They used their office as a residence and that wasn't a problem. I am an Irish citizen while my wife is an American. Other than the amount of paperwork, from my end it was painless. She did my NIE with minimal paperwork and got my wife's TIE with more than an abundance of paperwork. But the clerk asked for virtually nothing other than my documents, marriage certificate and that was it. We didn't have any money to speak of in a Spanish account but provided a stream of income for the last year and two notarized statements certifying my pensions amount. Those were used to substantiate my income, but they wanted nothing for my wife! Go figure!!!

To be honest, we had lived in the UK for the previous 10 years and spend 5 of them getting my wife's PR sorted. After that, I vowed to use a legal professional, what you save in money you spend in time and heartburn. Every penny I spent was worth it.


----------



## Glynb

Relyat said:


> As long as you can get another appointment, not a problem.
> 
> I was rejected, Mrs R went the following day with the same paperwork, saw the same clerk I had seen and was accepted!! I booked the next available appointment which was a couple of weeks later, attended with the same paperwork again and was accepted.
> 
> Luck of the draw


Indeed. I attended Alicante office three times and got Residencia on the third occasion. I'm pretty sure we could have done it in one appointment had we used an experienced Gestor or lawyer. But we did it ourselves and saved the fee, at cost of considerable stress and hassle. My wife's Spanish is moderate, mine at the time was feeble.

My wife took the same paperwork exactly as me to her appopintment at Denia office and was told it didn't fully meet the requirements for private health insurance!

So we booked another appointment at Alicante again and hey presto, accepted with same paperwork!

Perhaps Alicante knew what they were doing better than Denia as they dealt with more applications, is my theory anyway.


----------



## Alcalaina

It was explained to me once that that funcionarios get little or no on-the-job training. Their managers are given written guidelines on new laws or changes to the regulations, often vague and ambiguous, and instruct their staff according to their own interpretation. It has always been thus.


----------



## kaipa

One thing that you need to acclimatise to when dealing with this kind of thing is that Spain does not operate quite so " by the letter" as you might be accustomed to. Twenty years ago it was much worse. You often were sent away from every office for lack of copies etc only to return to be told by someone else you didn't need so many copies!! Its better now but you really have to factor in an element of initial frustration but also know that it will always get fixed in the end.
I always feel Spain is not a country for folk who like things to be predictable and well organized. If that's what you like you are better off in places like Sweden where everything is by the book.


----------



## Relyat

kaipa said:


> One thing that you need to acclimatise to when dealing with this kind of thing is that Spain does not operate quite so " by the letter" as you might be accustomed to. Twenty years ago it was much worse. You often were sent away from every office for lack of copies etc only to return to be told by someone else you didn't need so many copies!! Its better now but you really have to factor in an element of initial frustration but also know that it will always get fixed in the end.
> I always feel Spain is not a country for folk who like things to be predictable and well organized. If that's what you like you are better off in places like Sweden where everything is by the book.


Doesn't bother me, it's all part of the fun of living here.

It can be mildly frustrating having to make a return journey depending on how far it is, but it isn't as though I'm rushed off my feet...


----------



## Isobella

kaipa said:


> One thing that you need to acclimatise to when dealing with this kind of thing is that Spain does not operate quite so " by the letter" as you might be accustomed to. Twenty years ago it was much worse. You often were sent away from every office for lack of copies etc only to return to be told by someone else you didn't need so many copies!! Its better now but you really have to factor in an element of initial frustration but also know that it will always get fixed in the end.
> I always feel Spain is not a country for folk who like things to be predictable and well organized. If that's what you like you are better off in places like Sweden where everything is by the book.


Very true. That’s why I think it best to get a gestor. When I went with Mum for her residencia I watched a Gestor attended to straight away and was ages as he had a bundle of different clients. The first time Mum went she was sent away because one paper hadn’t been translated, this was before Spain joined the EU. After having spent around 100€ for official translation she returned. Behind the desk was the Son of her Neighbour. After a brief catch up he stamped everything without looking at her papers at al. So knowing someone is an advantage.

Agree about a country being well organised and predictable. We lived and worked in Geneva for a time and got used to everything running like clockwork. I like everything running perfect.


----------



## MataMata

Ben2013 said:


> in addition of course to proof I own property in Spain.


You do not need to own property, never have had to.


----------



## SonicToo

Regarding gestors that I have seen come up on several threads. A translation states that gestor more or less means 'administrative assistant'.
So that would imply that they are not 'lawyers' right and might not even be trained up?

What I'm basically getting at is, is this field regulated and is there some kind of official register than can be accessed in each particular city/province?

As I don't want to employ a gestor that might basically just be 'a local that speaks spanish'.


----------



## kaipa

SonicToo said:


> Regarding gestors that I have seen come up on several threads. A translation states that gestor more or less means 'administrative assistant'.
> So that would imply that they are not 'lawyers' right and might not even be trained up?
> 
> What I'm basically getting at is, is this field regulated and is there some kind of official register than can be accessed in each particular city/province?
> 
> As I don't want to employ a gestor that might basically just be 'a local that speaks spanish'.



Actually that probably is the person you want!. Enchufe, is the word the Spanish use. It basically means someone can pull strings. There is nothing sinister about it.


----------



## Joppa

SonicToo said:


> What I'm basically getting at is, is this field regulated and is there some kind of official register than can be accessed in each particular city/province?


There is: Buscador


----------



## Glynb

SonicToo said:


> Regarding gestors that I have seen come up on several threads. A translation states that gestor more or less means 'administrative assistant'.
> So that would imply that they are not 'lawyers' right and might not even be trained up?
> 
> What I'm basically getting at is, is this field regulated and is there some kind of official register than can be accessed in each particular city/province?
> 
> As I don't want to employ a gestor that might basically just be 'a local that speaks spanish'.


They can have an official looking office in town, or just be someone who works from home, speaks Spanish, knows the system, helped a friend for a fee and they recommend the same for you.

They are not lawyers usually. The best way is to speak to other ex-pats in your area and get a recomendation from someone you trust who succesfully went through the process with that gestor.

I can't think of an equivalent in the UK.


----------



## Alcalaina

SonicToo said:


> Regarding gestors that I have seen come up on several threads. A translation states that gestor more or less means 'administrative assistant'.
> So that would imply that they are not 'lawyers' right and might not even be trained up?
> 
> What I'm basically getting at is, is this field regulated and is there some kind of official register than can be accessed in each particular city/province?
> 
> As I don't want to employ a gestor that might basically just be 'a local that speaks spanish'.


They aren't lawyers but they are regulated and they have professional qualifications. The Spanish use them for everything under the sun, from doing complex tax returns to paying parking fines. An inefficient gestor wouldn't last long!


----------



## Joppa

I would define a gestor/a as someone who can cut through the Spanish red tape in dealing with national, regional and local administrations. Good ones have up-to-date experience and knowledge about procedures, often can get appointment which you as a member of the public find it difficult/impossible, and can often negotiate with an official to find the best way forward. Worth every cent of the modest fee they charge.


----------



## baldilocks

They are facilitators.


----------



## MataMata

A real gestor will be a qualified legal professional and as such be registered with official bodies such as the tax authorities and thereby be able to submit things like Model 720's and tax declarations on behalf of clients, the sort of things an individual would need a digital certificate or [email protected] do do themselves.

If a (claimed) gestor asks you for either of those then it means they are really no more than translators or facilitators and are two a penny everywhere.

It amuses me when I see people using such 'helpers' to pay say motoring fines or car SUMA's when they are so simple to pay online!


----------



## Alcalaina

MataMata said:


> It amuses me when I see people using such 'helpers' to pay say motoring fines or car SUMA's when they are so simple to pay online!


Not always that simple, especially if your only access to the internet is via your phone.


----------



## kaipa

I like the way people think most gestors are not particulary skilled. It might well be that they are translators and facilitators but given how hard it is to learn a language you cant really say they are unskilled. I guess some people hate having to feel that something that seems so simple to do in the UK is actually really hard in Spain.


----------



## xabiaxica

kaipa said:


> I like the way people think most gestors are not particulary skilled. It might well be that they are translators and facilitators but given how hard it is to learn a language you cant really say they are unskilled. I guess some people hate having to feel that something that seems so simple to do in the UK is actually really hard in Spain.


I agree. True gestores are skilled & worth their weight in gold. They are FAR more than facilitators & translators. A real gestor will have studied for years for qualifications - & then have to keep up with changes in legislation as they happen. A good gestor will work alongside lawyers & accountants.

Usually they aren't particularly expensive. 

There are translator/facilitators who aren't actually gestores. They might be good at what they do (which is usually quite limited in range) but in my experience, charge far more than real gestores.


----------



## baldilocks

Our gestor does all our tax affairs for free because we teach his daughter English.


----------



## Glynb

Glynb said:


> Good grief! Noted. I'll definitely be checking mine in front of the functionary!


Well finally went to pick up my TIE in Alicante. Sure enough, as many other Brits have reported, it states both that it's issued under the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement and also issued as a Dependent of an EU citizen.

I'm not bothered as my wife is German, so both could equally apply in my case, although I applied in my own right under the WA.


----------



## kaipa

Glynb said:


> Glynb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief! Noted. I'll definitely be checking mine in front of the functionary!
> 
> 
> 
> Well finally went to pick up my TIE in Alicante. Sure enough, as many other Brits have reported, it states both that it's issued under the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement and also issued as a Dependent of an EU citizen.
> 
> I'm not bothered as my wife is German, so both could equally apply in my case, although I applied in my own right under the
> 
> 
> Was there anything in your documentation that you gave them ( any boxes ticked) which indicated you were married etc. I just wonder if single person applications also have the same thing written?
Click to expand...


----------



## kaipa

Did you mention this to the person when you picked up the card?


----------



## Roy C

I got my residency today. I turned up, met my Gestor, she told me I would be going into the meeting alone as they were restricting numbers due to covid. She informed me the guy had a few words of English when he felt like it. I went in, used what little spanish i have, he was absolutely fine, i went to give him my deeds, he said no need and before I knew it, I was issued my green card. My wife is now applying for her TIE apparently it'll now be easier for her after me getting the green card. It was much easier than expected.


----------



## kaipa

Roy C said:


> I got my residency today. I turned up, met my Gestor, she told me I would be going into the meeting alone as they were restricting numbers due to covid. She informed me the guy had a few words of English when he felt like it. I went in, used what little spanish i have, he was absolutely fine, i went to give him my deeds, he said no need and before I knew it, I was issued my green card. My wife is now applying for her TIE apparently it'll now be easier for her after me getting the green card. It was much easier than expected.



You got a green card???


----------



## Megsmum

kaipa said:


> You got a green card???


Of course he did... he is an Irish Citizen


----------



## MataMata

Alcalaina said:


> Not always that simple, especially if your only access to the internet is via your phone.


You can do it by phone the only caveat being that it's a Spanish number.


----------



## MataMata

Roy C said:


> My wife is now applying for her TIE apparently it'll now be easier for her after me getting the green card.


How so?


----------



## Roy C

MataMata said:


> How so?




Because they now have a lot of the documentation on their records which she will be using for her application, my pension P60 bank statements as in saving and Spanish account showing Bill's being paid etc this will form part of her application.


----------



## xabiaxica

Roy C said:


> Because they now have a lot of the documentation on their records which she will be using for her application, my pension P60 bank statements as in saving and Spanish account showing Bill's being paid etc this will form part of her application.


So will she be applying as spouse of an EU citizen, or in her own right? 

A TIE issued under the WA carries more rights rights for the holder than one issued to a spouse. Not the least of which is that it isn't reliant upon YOUR status & continued residency.


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## Roy C

xabiaxica said:


> So will she be applying as spouse of an EU citizen, or in her own right?
> 
> A TIE issued under the WA carries more rights rights for the holder than one issued to a spouse. Not the least of which is that it isn't reliant upon YOUR status & continued residency.


No, she will be doing it in her own right, to cover any eventualities.


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## MataMata

Roy C said:


> No, she will be doing it in her own right, to cover any eventualities.


You having obtained your residency before her will not come into nor influence the process.

Applications are individual therefore hers will be dealt with on it's merits alone without reference to what may or may not be on record for you. Who says things like bank statements are even recorded, they are only looking for a baseline level of income and if that ticks the box why (or how) would they want to record the proof proffered? 

They will probably accept a joint bank account although not sure what use your P60 might be


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## Roy C

MataMata said:


> You having obtained your residency before her will not come into nor influence the process.
> 
> Applications are individual therefore hers will be dealt with on it's merits alone without reference to what may or may not be on record for you. Who says things like bank statements are even recorded, they are only looking for a baseline level of income and if that ticks the box why (or how) would they want to record the proof proffered?
> 
> They will probably accept a joint bank account although not sure what use your P60 might be


One of my friends did his closely followed by his wife using his P60 to cover both. Anyway we have a savings account in joint names as well so she will still do it in her own right whether or not my P60 is used.


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## Joppa

I have just been informed that extranjeria has approved my TIE application so am travelling in two weeks to complete residency and live in Nerja at a rented property. To be an expat in Spain has been my dream so at last it's coming to fruition. Can't wait.


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## Pesky Wesky

Joppa said:


> I have just been informed that extranjeria has approved my TIE application so am travelling in two weeks to complete residency and live in Nerja at a rented property. To be an expat in Spain has been my dream so at last it's coming to fruition. Can't wait.


Congratulations. Hope Spain lives up to your expectations and that you enjoy life here


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## Megsmum

Joppa said:


> I have just been informed that extranjeria has approved my TIE application so am travelling in two weeks to complete residency and live in Nerja at a rented property. To be an expat in Spain has been my dream so at last it's coming to fruition. Can't wait.


Fantastic. Welcome and enjoy xx


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## Lynn R

Hope your life in Spain turns out to be everything you want it to be. Good luck.


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## Alcalaina

Went to pick up ours this morning, one month after applying as instructed. They weren't there! Got home to find an email saying they hadn't arrived yet but unfortunately it arrived after we'd left. A bit annoying because it's a three-hour round trip. I wonder if there is a backlog in Madrid, where they are all printed, because they are correcting the error about family members?


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## 95995

Alcalaina said:


> Went to pick up ours this morning, one month after applying as instructed. They weren't there! *Got home to find an email saying they hadn't arrived yet but unfortunately it arrived after we'd left. A bit annoying because it's a three-hour round trip. *I wonder if there is a backlog in Madrid, where they are all printed, because they are correcting the error about family members?


But still worth another three-hour round trip, I'm sure  Congratulations anyway.

They have just opened the online site in France (the only way to apply here) - applications get sent to the relevant Prefecture and apparently someone already has an email that their permanent residence card (they have been here IIRC 10 years) from the Prefecture to go in - they are apparently going to wait a few days, just to avoid a possible wasted trip.

It is what it is, and has been made a little messier by the damned virus.


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## Roy C

Our gestor forwarded a letter and said my wife has received a favourable reply for her TIE and she now needs to book an appointment at the police station for her fingerprints to be done, does this mean it's been approved, I've yet to try and translate the letter.


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## Joppa

Yes, it means her submission has been approved, so she needs to attend police station for the issuance of TIE with fingerprinting and photo and another appointment to receive her card.


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## Alcalaina

Picked up our TIEs this morning, with the correct wording about the withdrawal agreement and the much-anticipated word "permanente" there for all to see. I know they aren't strictly necessary but I feel much more secure now!


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## Joppa

Going for my second step at Comisaría in Málaga on Monday for fingerprinting and submission of photos etc, and I am told it will take about 40 days before I can collect the TIE.


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## Alcalaina

Joppa said:


> Going for my second step at Comisaría in Málaga on Monday for fingerprinting and submission of photos etc, and I am told it will take about 40 days before I can collect the TIE.


I managed to get the email address of an administrator who I could contact to make sure it had arrived. He emailed me when it did - very useful as although I was told a month, it actually took about six weeks.


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## Roy C

Ok, so with the latest restrictions being put in place on Tuesday in Andalucia, will my wife still be able to attend her appointment at the police station in Estepona on Tuesday to do the finger prints etc we live in Casares.


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## Alcalaina

Roy C said:


> Ok, so with the latest restrictions being put in place on Tuesday in Andalucia, will my wife still be able to attend her appointment at the police station in Estepona on Tuesday to do the finger prints etc we live in Casares.


I would imagine this counts as essential travel. If she gets stopped she can show them the paperwork for the appointment. Is there a number that you can ring and check?

EDIT just found this list of exceptions, so it looks like she’s covered by “otros trámites administrativos”. Estas serían las únicas excepciones para entrar o salir de Andalucía en caso de cierre


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## Roy C

Alcalaina said:


> I would imagine this counts as essential travel. If she gets stopped she can show them the paperwork for the appointment. Is there a number that you can ring and check?
> 
> EDIT just found this list of exceptions, so it looks like she’s covered by “otros trámites administrativos”. Estas serían las únicas excepciones para entrar o salir de Andalucía en caso de cierre


Brilliant, thanks Alcalaina, I'll need to drive her there as she doesn't drive here. Much appreciated.


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## Joppa

I also have my rental car tomorrow to drive to Malaga for TIE appointment. It's not due back till Friday, but since I can't drive outside of Nerja from Tuesday, I am returning it at the airport after the appointment.


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## Alcalaina

Roy C said:


> Brilliant, thanks Alcalaina, I'll need to drive her there as she doesn't drive here. Much appreciated.


Just been in touch with a friend who has a TIE appointment on Wednesday and she's been told by the police that it's OK to go out of town for it.


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## blondebob

Interesting article regarding driving someone across municipal borders






Can You Accompany Somebody? | Costa Tropical Gazette News


I have been to Motril to speak with the Policia Local at the police station, and with the Guardia Civil in Salobreña, who were manning a check point.



www.theseasidegazette.com


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## Joppa

A very pleasant experience today at the main Policia Nacional Comisariá in Málaga. A short wait at the entrance, where a very pleasant officer let me in and directed me to the right department, then another pleasant civilian staff met me and directed me to the counter. Spoken mainly Spanish with a bit of English, and was out in a little over 5 minutes. Was told TIE will be ready in about a month, with email notification to the gestoria.


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## Roy C

Joppa said:


> A very pleasant experience today at the main Policia Nacional Comisariá in Málaga. A short wait at the entrance, where a very pleasant officer let me in and directed me to the right department, then another pleasant civilian staff met me and directed me to the counter. Spoken mainly Spanish with a bit of English, and was out in a little over 5 minutes. Was told TIE will be ready in about a month, with email notification to the gestoria.


So was your appointment today for the fingerprints and pic?


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## Joppa

Yes. Just two index fingers and a picture which was scanned and returned to me. Then a signature in a box, again to be scanned. Everything inputted into PC, presumably ready for TIE production.


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## Roy C

Thanks for the update Joppa. 👍


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## Roy C

Well we decided not to take the chance, I drove her down to the coast and she took a local cab to Estepona. She just called me to say, all good, now just to wait for the card, they also said 4 weeks, which is fine. She said they were really good and made the whole thing very easy.

Thanks all for the help and advice with the process.


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## gus-lopez

We did ours at the begining of July.
EX23, 790 codigo 012,paid at bank, photo, passport that is in date , info pages only + copies, existing residencia +copies, padron dated within 90 days, Made an appointment on line in Murcia. Arrived & straight in. waited 5 minutes & straight in. scanned photo ,signature on to screen, index finger print on each hand , everything returned except EX23 & their copy of the 790 & told to make another appointment in 30 days for collection. Same for the wife,out & had breakfast next door then back on autovia on the way home 10 minutes before out first appointment was scheduled.Result!!
Made an appointment 28 days later ,handed over the original padron , residencia & passport copy ,fingerprint scanned to check & card handed over for 10 years.In & out in 5 minutes
Reason I changed is that travelling by road the new TIE card is EU universal, why there had been a delay obtaining it as I first started in February , using the then required EX17 & had to wait due to the EU wanting a universally identifiable card.
I see also that the EU has now issued guidance about how 'residents' are to be treated when they cannot prove they are travelling as a resident , the answer being if in doubt they will stamp your passport at entry to the schengen zone.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/inf...nfo_site/borders_seminar_ppp_final_public.pdf



The other reason we changed is that under the WA apart from loss of canditature /voting in EU elections everyting else remains the same.
I.E travelling for up to 90 days in another EU state & then being able to go next door for another up to 90 days, if you so wish, & so on. Far easier with the card then attempting to explain a spanish green residency certificate ,in spanish, to someone who does not read or understand the language.



Megsmum said:


> Wonder what happens after the five and ten year validity?
> I WILL eat my hat if it’s as easy as this and all areas follow this


It certainly is up here. Straight swop +12€ same fee as spanish pay for there ID cards
Straight forward reneal at 5 years for a 10 year one & at 10 years for another 10 year one.



Williams2 said:


> I wonder what the penalty or punishment will be for those Brits who would rather hang onto their Green EU residency
> card rather than change to a non EU TIE ??


There isn't one. If you don't want to you don't have to but bear in mind each time you exit/enter spain you will need to produce it otherwise they will stamp passport as though you are a tourist.



Lynn R said:


> thus are permanent residents and should be able to simply exchange their current registration certificate for a TIE.





Megsmum said:


> Thank you.
> 
> We will apply for one but will wait until next year and the rush is over!


I think many might be thinking that but up here in Murcia there were huge amounts of appointments going begging everyday. I work on the do it asap as you do not know what is going to happen & better done than everything suddenly grinding to a halt again


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## Alcalaina

For anyone applying now, the link to the EX-23 form has changed. It's here:


http://extranjeros.inclusion.gob.es/ficheros/Modelos_solicitudes/mod_solicitudes2/23-Formulario_TIE_RU.pdf


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## kaipa

Every UK national will have their passport stamped irrespective of residency. Why wouldn't you you are no longer a EU national.


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## Joppa

kaipa said:


> Every UK national will have their passport stamped irrespective of residency. Why wouldn't you you are no longer a EU national.


A new Schengen border guidance has been issued, which states that those Brits with TIE or green residency paper should not have their passport stamped, unless the border official has some doubt over the traveller's residency status. Those who have entitlement under the withdrawal agreement are third country nationals with special status.


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## Alcalaina

deleted


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## Lunes2020

Hello. I am in Alicante. We are living here more than 6 years. I tried to get an appointment for more than 10 days. But I just cannot get it. It always said " 
En este momento no hay citas disponibles.

En breve, la Oficina pondrá a su disposición nuevas citas. "

I understand there is no limit for people who are already registered and have the green cards. I just want to sort it out ASAP. Is there anybody successful to get an appointment online with Alicante province?

Thanks


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## kaipa

As you say if you are already in possesion of the green card or paper version there is no necessity to get the TIE. I would simply wait until January when there will be less applications and therefore easier to get an appointment. There really is no rush


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## Lunes2020

kaipa said:


> As you say if you are already in possesion of the green card or paper version there is no necessity to get the TIE. I would simply wait until January when there will be less applications and therefore easier to get an appointment. There really is no rush


The reason i am rush because we changed an address recently and it is different from the one on the green card. It takes two months to get the certificado de empadronamiento and it is only good for 3 months. If we cannot use it in 3 months, we would have to get another one in the oficina de padron.


Anyway, thanks a lot.


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## gus-lopez

Lunes2020 said:


> If we cannot use it in 3 months, we would have to get another one in the oficina de padron.


I wouldn't worry about it I regularly get new ones .
*With the appointments can you choose a different office? Here I can choose Murcia, Cartegena, Jumilla, Yecla as well as Lorca. To obtain an online appointment in Lorca, 5 minutes from home, they were originally only available online between 2pm & 5pm on Friday afternoons. I gave up. I went to Murcia .Far easier.


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## Lynn R

Having waited until after the rush to register by 31 December was over, we went to the provincial Comisaria de Policia Nacional in Málaga this morning to apply for our TIEs (straight swap for permanent resident certificates). There haven't been any appointments showing available at our nearest office whenever we've looked for a few weeks now so we decided we might as well get a morning out out of it as otherwise we're confined to our municipality. We booked our appointments online on Sunday 31 Jan and got one each for this morning. Got our EX23 and Modelo 790 012 forms completed, printed off and paid the €12 fee at the bank on Monday plus got our photos done. This morning I was allowed into the police station 10 minutes before my appointment time and seen straight away, and my husband was allowed in 45 minutes before his appoinment time and again seen straight away. The staff were efficient and pleasant and the process only took 5 minutes. We weren't asked for any documents we shouldn't have been asked for (no padrón certificates - probalby because we'd updated our resident registrations when we moved house 3 years ago - and certainly no questions about income or health cover). We had our fingerprints taken at this appointment. Were handed our resguardo certificates and advised to make another appointment in 2 months' time to collect the TIEs and bring the resguardos and our passports. All in all, just as straightforward and painless as it was promised to be.


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## Joppa

When you come to collect your TIEs, you line up at the front reception. They will take your resguardos, look up your group number (currently they have cards up to Group 80) and bin them, look at your passports and find your TIEs in an indexed box, take your fingerprints and compare, and hand over your cards.


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## xabiaxica

Joppa said:


> When you come to collect your TIEs, you line up at the front reception. They will take your resguardos, look up your group number (currently they have cards up to Group 80) and bin them, look at your passports and find your TIEs in an indexed box, take your fingerprints and compare, and hand over your cards.


Where are they up to Lote 80?

In Alicante they're up to Lote 200 & something.


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## Joppa

xabiaxica said:


> Where are they up to Lote 80?
> 
> In Alicante they're up to Lote 200 & something.


Yes, as of this week. Mine was Lote 64, ready early January, two months after fingerprinting appointment.


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## xabiaxica

Joppa said:


> Yes, as of this week. Mine was Lote 64, ready early January, two months after fingerprinting appointment.


But where?


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## Joppa

xabiaxica said:


> But where?


Malaga, responding to Lynn's post.


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## xabiaxica

Joppa said:


> Malaga, responding to Lynn's post.


Unless you quote the person to whom you are replying, how are we to know?


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## Joppa

My reply follows that of Lynn's immediately, but I take your point.


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## Lynn R

Lynn R said:


> Having waited until after the rush to register by 31 December was over, we went to the provincial Comisaria de Policia Nacional in Málaga this morning to apply for our TIEs (straight swap for permanent resident certificates). There haven't been any appointments showing available at our nearest office whenever we've looked for a few weeks now so we decided we might as well get a morning out out of it as otherwise we're confined to our municipality. We booked our appointments online on Sunday 31 Jan and got one each for this morning. Got our EX23 and Modelo 790 012 forms completed, printed off and paid the €12 fee at the bank on Monday plus got our photos done. This morning I was allowed into the police station 10 minutes before my appointment time and seen straight away, and my husband was allowed in 45 minutes before his appoinment time and again seen straight away. The staff were efficient and pleasant and the process only took 5 minutes. We weren't asked for any documents we shouldn't have been asked for (no padrón certificates - probalby because we'd updated our resident registrations when we moved house 3 years ago - and certainly no questions about income or health cover). We had our fingerprints taken at this appointment. Were handed our resguardo certificates and advised to make another appointment in 2 months' time to collect the TIEs and bring the resguardos and our passports. All in all, just as straightforward and painless as it was promised to be.


We picked up our new TIE cards at the Málaga CNP this morning. Our Lote number would actually have been available for collection two weeks ago, but we waited until we were sure they were there before making our appointments. The appointments were for 11.00 and we got there at 10.45. Waited outside for 5 minutes (join the queue on the right hand side of the main entrance, sign for Extranjeria), then queued at the reception counter just inside for a further 10 minutes (there were a couple, a mother and daughter and two individuals in front of us), we got to the counter at exactly 11.00 and were on our way out of the building, TIEs in hand, at 11.04.

I have seen people post on FB that the Málaga CNP is "chaotic" but on the two occasions we've been there to get our TIEs processed it has been anything but, so if anyone is finding it difficult to get an appointment at their local Comisaria don't be put off, there seem to be many more appointments available at Málaga.


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## Alcalaina

I've also seen people complaining they've had to make a cita for each family member to collect their cards, sometimes on different days. In Cadiz you can get them all on one appointment (though you still have to all go in person). You just have to ask.


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## xabiaxica

Alcalaina said:


> I've also seen people complaining they've had to make a cita for each family member to collect their cards, sometimes on different days. In Cadiz you can get them all on one appointment (though you still have to all go in person). You just have to ask.


In Alicante there's no appointment system for actually collecting the cards! Just turn up once your LOTE number is ready.

Just shows how it varies area to area!


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## Pesky Wesky

Handed in my papers for the TIE yesterday in Pozuelo, Madrid. Never got round to getting nationality...I was told to make an appointment to pick it up in 45 days, but forgot to ask, 45 working days or 45 days... Anyone know??


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## kaipa

Pesky Wesky said:


> Handed in my papers for the TIE yesterday in Pozuelo, Madrid. Never got round to getting nationality...I was told to make an appointment to pick it up in 45 days, but forgot to ask, 45 working days or 45 days... Anyone know??


Don't think it's an exact number. Just means roughly give them a month or two. They dont throw it out.


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## Alcalaina

kaipa said:


> Don't think it's an exact number. Just means roughly give them a month or two. They dont throw it out.


Give them a ring or email after six weeks and see if it's arrived yet!


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## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Give them a ring or email after six weeks and see if it's arrived yet!


Hahaha! Phone and get a reply? Very difficult if not impossible. I'm not sure there is a phone number for information anymore anyway


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## Pesky Wesky

kaipa said:


> Don't think it's an exact number. Just means roughly give them a month or two. They dont throw it out.


Actually he was very exact, 45 days, not about 45 or around and he said it several times, but you're right, I presume they won't throw it out.


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## Overandout

From a logical perspective it is unlikely to be 45 natural days as that could fall on a weekend of bank holiday. Whereas 45 working days will always fall on a, well, a working day.


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## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hahaha! Phone and get a reply? Very difficult if not impossible. I'm not sure there is a phone number for information anymore anyway


Another good reason for you to move to Cadiz ...  My contact there even gave me his name and personal email so I could check!


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## Pesky Wesky

Alcalaina said:


> Another good reason for you to move to Cadiz ...  My contact there even gave me his name and personal email so I could check!


Yes, sounds like life is different there, but I very much doubt a move to the south. Much more likely is a move to the north... But seriously, government offices are doing away with "information". In the tax office now you can't go in and ask for information. I'm talking about Comunidad de Madrid, not Madrid Capital. You have to have an appointment. To get the appointment I believe you have to have a clave or certificado digital, or you can possibly have a video call ( I had one yesterday - I had my camera on, they did not), or a chat through your PC. There isn't an email in many places and no phone number...
PS. His personal email? Sounds like you made a friend there!


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## Alcalaina

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, sounds like life is different there, but I very much doubt a move to the south. Much more likely is a move to the north... But seriously, government offices are doing away with "information". In the tax office now you can't go in and ask for information. I'm talking about Comunidad de Madrid, not Madrid Capital. You have to have an appointment. To get the appointment I believe you have to have a clave or certificado digital, or you can possibly have a video call ( I had one yesterday - I had my camera on, they did not), or a chat through your PC. There isn't an email in many places and no phone number...
> PS. His personal email? Sounds like you made a friend there!


There was no email address or phone number on the website, but on the day we had our appointment Alvaro emailed me to say the cards hadn't yet arrived (unfortunately we had already set off for Cadiz, so a 100km round trip just for a nice cup of coffee). When I let him know, he advised me to email him again in a couple of weeks before making another appointment, just to check. I passed his email to a friend who needed to know whether she needed to make separate TIE applications for her and each of her three children (she didn't, they all went in together). 

We've always found functionarios incredibly helpful round here and it's a such shame the rest of the country isn't as laid-back as Cadiz!


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## Overandout

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, sounds like life is different there, but I very much doubt a move to the south. Much more likely is a move to the north... But seriously, government offices are doing away with "information". In the tax office now you can't go in and ask for information. I'm talking about Comunidad de Madrid, not Madrid Capital. You have to have an appointment. To get the appointment I believe you have to have a clave or certificado digital, or you can possibly have a video call ( I had one yesterday - I had my camera on, they did not), or a chat through your PC. There isn't an email in many places and no phone number...
> PS. His personal email? Sounds like you made a friend there!


Freedom has its price.

And that price is public services.


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