# After 23 years in Canada..Moving to.. The U.K. or Spain ?? Pro's and Cons please.



## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

I feel Like I should be on an episode of a Place in the Sun ~ home or away....

Decision is made ~ we want back over the pond, however, we are flip flopping between England and Spain... 

Potential deal breakers, *HEALTHCARE* and *INHERITANCE TAX*

We are both in our 50's, hubby although you wouldn't know to look at him has had some health issues that would make a private policy cost restrictive..

In Canada we pay a monthly Medical Services Plan aka MSP premium, we get great healthcare.

*Move to England *~ Residence based ~ would be able to access the NHS

*Move to Spain* ~ S.O.L. as from what I understand Residencia laws allows only for those there before 2012..
I've read that........ There are plans.. There aren't plans.. It's a go.. IT's a not a go... there is a pay into (not to be confused with private insurance) plan in Spain.. Does this exist in Valencia Province ??

*Option 2* ~ ( I'm trying to be creative) 
Become Self Employed, I'd rather not work, but my little very part time hobby could provide a small income.. If I registered as Self Employed, paid the 250 Euros' or whatever it is per month I would then be able to get health care for myself & my 'dependants' aka Hubby would also be covered ?
We could go years & years without needing any doctors appointments but I need all bases covered t's crossed and i's dotted, given that my otherwise fit & healthy hubby has had a couple of completely recovered from health scares eg.. idiopathic Pulmonary embolisms.. 

Am I out to lunch with this 'outside the box' way of thinking ?

We have absolutely no problem declaring overseas rental income, dividend income etc and paying our fair share of taxes in the country of residence... But what I don't want to do is throw money down the drain, which brings me to...

*INHERITANCE TAX*

It's once of those topics that we are all often uncomfortable discussing, but the reality is that M.I.L. isn't getting any younger, where as we would love her to go on to be a healthy 100 we all know the chances of that are slim... 
IF she chose to blow it all on herself having a fun time, Awesome, she earned it, she deserves it... 
But then again if she passes away still with the proceeds of her house in tact, I don't think any Country deserves to get more than the minimum on already Taxed money.. 

So with this in mind.............

In Canada and the U.k I understand that the Estate is taxed 1st, then the beneficiaries receive whatever $$$ (sorry keyboard doesn't do pounds)amount which is then a non taxable benifit.. Obviously any profits made with the proceeds are then subject to the usual Capital Gains.

In Spain, is it true that the estate is taxed then it is taxed again once it passes into the beneficiaries hands? with only a tiny portion being Tax exempt ?

I'm all for Tax avoidance NOT however for tax evasion so if there is any way to avoid this I would like to know.. 

Then again maybe I've got it all wrong and someone can post in Plain English.. Pro's and cons of each countries laws regarding these points.

Thanks, For the one member that always loves to say, go look it's been said before... Yup, I'm sure it's all been said before, just couldn't find it.. 
.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

HM Revenue & Customs: Inheritance Tax - the basics I posted this last week in answer to a similar question so I hope this helps.

Access to the NHS will not be automatic for you, you'll get it in the end but not straight away. If you intend to buy property then the UK is a far better option, buying in Spain means your loosing money before the ink dries on your deeds so rent out there should you choose to go.

Remember too that winters on mainland Spain are often cold, wet and damp and most houses are not built to cope with that, you won't automatically find the double glazing and effishient gas central heating you'd find in the UK. If you want year round sun look at the Canary Islands; Gran Canaria even in mid winter won't see temperatures lower than the mid 60's and often go into the 70's. Because of the near ideal climate you get less brick for your dollar than mainland Spain but you just have to compromise.


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## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks Bob Bob for your response, for the 1st time in 30 years we plan to rent. We realize we would be nuts to buy in Spain in the present climate..
We did consider The Canary Islands, my in-laws retired to Tenerife in the mid 80's and spent just shy of 20 years there before returning to the U.K. 
Unfortunately my F.I.L is no longer with us, he would have been able to address many of our concerns. 

We don't mind seasons, Tenerife being an Island is a big drawback for us, we want to be able to hop in the car, and go on an adventure.. I think eventually we would go stir crazy in the Canarias.. Much as we enjoyed our many many vacations there.
In other words have access to the rest of Europe, we also don't care for day after day of the same when in comes to the weather. 
If indeed we find it is viable to move to Spain, our search area has narrowed to the areas between Javea, Denia or the Jalon Valley.

By renting, if, after a while we find that we want to move on, we won't have a property to sell. We do also love the Pueblos Blanco's so who knows !! 

At present we have a 4,800 sq ft house with a triple garage, 700 sq ft glass studio, home gym, home theatre room, pool table with wonderful Idyllic views over lake and mountain... Our home is on 3/4 acre, so we’ll be giving up a lot. Prices here in Canada are far cheaper than in the U.K. or even Spain, we get a lot more bang for our Buck!

Our wonderful home has in many ways been holding us back, Canada however doesn't 'feed our soul' and we feel we are existing not living!!

We want to be closer to family as well as lifelong friends but not on top of them, within 1 – 3 hours would be great rather than the 16+ hours it takes us at present to go door to door. 

We fell in love with Spain, the history, architecture & culture, we equally like the idea of 'escaping to the country', growing veggies and collecting eggs from under Chickens fluffy bums, although, as I am typing this I’m thinking of Tapa’s & swimming in the Med!

Once we know the answers to our main concerns....

*Healthcare* & *Inheritence taxes in Spain *we will be moving back over to your side of the pond..

Non negotiable we have 3 cats that will coming too...
.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

I enjoyed the Canadian winter as it happens lol. We're trying to get our children to leave the UK, Canada or New Zealand are the top choices, the UK is pretty much finished now, nothing to offer young professionals. At least in Canada or NZ they have needed skills and ROOM, lots of space plus we're in the very fortunate position to be able afford to get out and see them a couple of times a year.

If your going to rent and don't need to work again then Spain is for you, forget the UK, its not the country it once was.


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## Jasmina (Sep 5, 2012)

Check www.expatica.es. It explains that inheritance tax exemptions, available in some G A's including Valencia, do NOT apply unless the deceased and inheritor live in the Province. In essence we would have to pay 25% of my inheritance in tax as my mother lives in the UK. There is a table of rates, not sure of it's on the same site.....


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I live on a far smaller island than Tenerife, instead of hopping into the car to go on adventures we hop on a plane and providing we remain within Spanish territories, because we are Canary Island residents our fares are at half price. 

I am always glad to return home, where there are only four English, virtually no crime, no frost, no snow, and the people smile.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Goldeneye said:


> . Prices here in Canada are far cheaper than in the U.K. or even Spain, we get a lot more bang for our Buck!
> 
> O
> .



If you think BC prices are lower then Spain you'll be in for a pleasant shock. I'm not even sure if outside of London the UK is more expensive then BC.

Obviously you can find an expensive cubby hole in the most expensive part of any country but BC is one of the worlds most expensive housing markets. Comparing like to like I can't imagine many (any?) places in Europe that you should find expensive.

Certainly the odds are you'll find Spain much cheaper.

Now if you're comparing a log cabin in the interior of BC near the Yukon border versus a penthouse in Madrid the prices won't compare but like for like


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## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

NickZ said:


> If you think BC prices are lower then Spain you'll be in for a pleasant shock. I'm not even sure if outside of London the UK is more expensive then BC.
> 
> Obviously you can find an expensive cubby hole in the most expensive part of any country but BC is one of the worlds most expensive housing markets. Comparing like to like I can't imagine many (any?) places in Europe that you should find expensive.
> 
> ...


I'm comparing our 4 _all doubles _bed detached, with home theatre room, Pool table/games room, home gym, formal lounge/ kitchen breakfast family room... 800sq ft studio space and triple garage with the Modern 4 bed detached _(1 double) _box of a house with no room to swing a cat we had in Bristol.. Canadian house ~ $700K = £446 versus our old house in U.K £500K However, the U.K. would be our 2nd choice, that all depends on whether Healthcare and inheritance are addressed to our satisfaction. At present I am going on the assumption that private healthcare is going to be out of reach given his so called 'pre-existing' conditions' that is why I thought perhaps I could go the 'self employed route' 
.
At the end of the day, it's just a house ~ Canada is not where we want to be, if we move to Spain we'll be able to rent a very nice Villa as mrypg9 does.
.
Jasmina ~ I keep getting ~ The webpage cannot be found , when I click on the link 
.


We are just very reluctanct to give too much of a future inheritance to any Gvmt, but then again perhaps we should just put it down to the cost of living where we want to be. 
.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Sadly, good state provided health care requires taxation....

Health care in Andalucia is excellent...at least that's been my experience.

We owned property in Canada which we sold before leaving the UK. We got a good price,made a healthy profit even after tax but we would have made perhaps ten times as much on a similar property in the UK so yes, the cost of living generally in Canada is much lower than in the UK or Spain.

I would most certainly recommend renting. Both here and in Prague we rented and were able to afford to rent properties that ten years ago woud have cost €1milion at least. No way would we wish to buy that kind of house. In three years or so we shall move out of this house into a smaller property in town which will be a simple procedure as we won't be worrying about looking for a purchaser.


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## Jasmina (Sep 5, 2012)

.
Jasmina ~ I keep getting ~ The webpage cannot be found , when I click on the link 
.

I don't know how to make links live on this site, sorry. Try expatica.com/es. Then finance and business, tax (from drop down). Then archives, guide to sp inherit tax.

Or check my thread from April 25 th, inheritance tax exemption .....Snikpoh's link works.

Fprgot to say that you're correct in that the estate is first taxed by HMRC but atm the allowance for this is quite high...£600 k I think.


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Goldeneye said:


> Thanks Bob Bob for your response, for the 1st time in 30 years we plan to rent. We realize we would be nuts to buy in Spain in the present climate..
> We did consider The Canary Islands, my in-laws retired to Tenerife in the mid 80's and spent just shy of 20 years there before returning to the U.K.
> Unfortunately my F.I.L is no longer with us, he would have been able to address many of our concerns.
> 
> ...


I spent 7 years in Canada. I know what you mean with existing, not living.

The only thing I miss are the huge cheap houses and Tim Hortons. However, aside from property I think Spain has become cheaper than Canada.

However just follow the 2 rules of living in Spain:

1. Have money.
2. Don't be poor.

Do that and Spain should be good.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Sirtravelot said:


> I spent 7 years in Canada. I know what you mean with existing, not living.
> 
> The only thing I miss are the huge cheap houses and Tim Hortons. However, aside from property I think Spain has become cheaper than Canada.
> 
> ...


We intended to retire to Canada and live in our very attractive property in the Ottawa Valley - cowboy country.
But after spending time there we decided life there was like watching paint dry...
We gave up the idea.

I totally agree with your rules. Far too many Brits come here with too high expectations and too little money.


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## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> We intended to retire to Canada and live in our very attractive property in the Ottawa Valley - cowboy country.
> But after spending time there we decided life there was like watching paint dry...
> We gave up the idea.
> 
> I totally agree with your rules. Far too many Brits come here with too high expectations and too little money.


As I said, in Canada we are existing but not living, it doesn't feed our soul and we don't buy into the shopping mall culture.

What would you class as "too little money?"

Would, using a very conservative estimate.... 3,400 Euro's a month be enough ?


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Goldeneye said:


> As I said, in Canada we are existing but not living, it doesn't feed our soul and we don't buy into the shopping mall culture.
> 
> What would you class as "too little money?"
> 
> Would, using a very conservative estimate.... 3,400 Euro's a month be enough ?


That's plenty of cheddar.

You'd be making it rain.

That's more than the average Spanish family raked in before the crisis began.

Yes that is plenty!


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> We intended to retire to Canada and live in our very attractive property in the Ottawa Valley - cowboy country.
> .



I think all the cowboys are going to complain about this one


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

NickZ said:


> I think all the cowboys are going to complain about this one


Don't be silly. Cowboys can't read.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

Sirtravelot said:


> Don't be silly. Cowboys can't read.


Oh you don't know the secret. The horses read to the cowboys


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Goldeneye said:


> As I said, in Canada we are existing but not living, it doesn't feed our soul and we don't buy into the shopping mall culture.
> 
> What would you class as "too little money?"
> 
> Would, using a very conservative estimate.... 3,400 Euro's a month be enough ?


Well, I guess it depends on your lifestyle. We pay out 2000 euros before anyone eats....but then as I said we chose to live in an expensive area where rents are high. We didn't actually _choose_ but my son and dil have a house nearby and this was our first base, so to speak.

We are two people and a large dog. We like to eat out at a 'good' restaurant once a month and go out for coffee/light lunch sometimes weekly. We don't buy clothes often but go for 'good' things in sales which I then tend to wear until they fall off me. We run one car, a LandRover. We have a couple of mini-breaks away in Spain or Portugal each year. Our life is mainly centred around our home, reading, conversing, entertaining friends now and then. I think you could describe it as a modest but comfortable lifestyle.

For all that yes, we could live easily on 3400 euros monthly with enough in hand for insurances, car repairs and all those things that crop up and cost money. For 1500 euros upward monthly rent here you can get a large house with nice gardens, pool etc.

We could move and live much more 'cheaply'...but why??? We like where we live and besides, what would we do with the money we saved? We don't need to leave money to our family as son and dil are high earners. We intend to die with nothing in the bank.

When you've worked hard in responsible jobs for over thirty years of your lives you have earned the right to live as you choose, providing it's within your means.

That's my viewpoint anyway.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

NickZ said:


> I think all the cowboys are going to complain about this one


Why? There are more real cowboys in Canada than the USA, it seems. 

That was one reason we decided not to live in Canada....far too rural even for a country girl like me. 
And Canadian country'n'western music is even worse than American.....


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## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> Why? There are more real cowboys in Canada than the USA, it seems.
> 
> That was one reason we decided not to live in Canada....far too rural even for a country girl like me.
> And Canadian country'n'western music is even worse than American.....


Instead of singing about the wife taking the house and the dog from him, she took his goose and his moose.


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## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> Well, I guess it depends on your lifestyle. We pay out 2000 euros before anyone eats....but then as I said we chose to live in an expensive area where rents are high. We didn't actually _choose_ but my son and dil have a house nearby and this was our first base, so to speak.
> 
> We are two people and a large dog. We like to eat out at a 'good' restaurant once a month and go out for coffee/light lunch sometimes weekly. We don't buy clothes often but go for 'good' things in sales which I then tend to wear until they fall off me. We run one car, a LandRover. We have a couple of mini-breaks away in Spain or Portugal each year. Our life is mainly centred around our home, reading, conversing, entertaining friends now and then. I think you could describe it as a modest but comfortable lifestyle.
> 
> ...


That's awesome to hear, we are uber conservative, so I've accounted for worst case senario's with regard to exchange rates so we would have an extra $1,000 p.m. in the 'what if' fund..

Before we jump in and make any rash decisions we need to address our concerns of future Inheritance Tax when family in U.K pass away.. would hate to move and then find the Spanish government take a further 25% after the British Government get there hands on 40% of anything over the 325K limit.. Course that's divided up by the rest of the family, but when the dust settles we would be on the hook for a extra 25%  I just don't care for that one bit!

:confused2: Maybe the option would be to spend the alloted 183 days a year in Spain and stay in Canada for now where there is no inheritance tax...

Now with that senario, we still have our cats to consider .. :noidea: :confused2:


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Goldeneye said:


> That's awesome to hear, we are uber conservative, so I've accounted for worst case senario's with regard to exchange rates so we would have an extra $1,000 p.m. in the 'what if' fund..
> 
> Before we jump in and make any rash decisions we need to address our concerns of future Inheritance Tax when family in U.K pass away.. would hate to move and then find the Spanish government take a further 25% after the British Government get there hands on 40% of anything over the 325K limit.. Course that's divided up by the rest of the family, but when the dust settles we would be on the hook for a extra 25%  I just don't care for that one bit!
> 
> ...


If your assets are in the UK and you make a will in the UK then as I understand it your inheritance will be dealt with under UK law. Not so if you have Spanish property where the situation is more complicated and tax is due on inherited property.

As I said, it's not really a concern of ours as we don't intend to leave much in the way of funds and we no longer own properties. I don't believe in inherited wealth anyway - my son has made a very good living using his talents and education and anything we leave will be a drop in the ocean to him and his equally successful wife. But I know it's a concern to friends who own substantial properties here.

Like you, we are extremely cautious and prudent in managing our financial affairs. When we planned our move here the exchange rate was at £1= 1.22 euros but we planned on a 1:1 parity. 
My advice would be to choose an area you like then rent the biggest and nicest house that suits your tastes. It seems that such properties can be rented for half or less of what we pay in this 'posh' area so if you decide to locate somewhere less expensive you will have a substantial income cushion as your outgoings will be correspondingly lower. Most importantly, if you don't like where you live for whatever reason, you can just up sticks and move on to somewhere more congenial. We moved too quickly from my son's house to a flat in an urb. We had never lived in a flat and in such close proximity to other people so after five months we moved to where we live now. If we had bought we would be stuck there and miserable, regretting leaving Prague. But we are both happy and settled here and have been for almost five years.

In our case we are happy to be here and pay more as we are settled and frankly have no idea what we would do with the substantial monthly sum we would save in rent if we moved inland or up the coast. We've moved on from driving flash cars -not without regrets in my case! - and there's a limit to the amount of expensive clothes you can wear or dinners you can eat. Books and music downloads are relatively inexpensive and they are important to us.

This part of the CdS is unique in that for a short stretch the high-rise, the volume of tourists, the ubiquitous 'Brit' urbs, the night life...all that is associated with the CdS - just isn't here, thankfully, as we prefer the quiet life. We are on the coast yet the beach is unspoilt and has no busy road running alongside it, access being by foot. We are within easy access of two airports and one small and one large town. The village is small, dozy and Spanish and we live in a 'normal' street not in an urb or gated community.

As with everything, it's horses for courses. A lot of immigrants would not enjoy our lifestyle. But we do and as I said we worked long and hard for it and hope it may long continue!:fingerscrossed:

Don't worry about your cats. They can live safely here.


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## Jasmina (Sep 5, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> If your assets are in the UK and you make a will in the UK then as I understand it your inheritance will be dealt with under UK law. Not so if you have Spanish property where the situation is more complicated and tax is due on inherited property.
> 
> As I said, it's not really a concern of ours as we don't intend to leave much in the way of funds and we no longer own properties. I don't believe in inherited wealth anyway - my son has made a very good living using his talents and education and anything we leave will be a drop in the ocean to him and his equally successful wife. But I know it's a concern to friends who own substantial properties here.
> 
> ...


OP seems concerned about tax SHE would face on inheriting from a parent.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Jasmina said:


> OP seems concerned about tax SHE would face on inheriting from a parent.


As I said, if the assets are in the UK and subject to a UK will, any tax payable on those assets would be levied in the UK, surely.

If those assets included a house which was then rented the income from this asset would be taxed in Spain if the OP were tax resident here. Same would apply to income from any other asset not subject to a DTO.

The asset would of course have to be declared to Hacienda under the new 'disclosure' law.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

*Iht*

If you live in Spain, regardless of the will, you will pay inheritance tax on your worldwide assets;you might end up paying it in both countries depending on the value of your estate in UK.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

I meant to add wills just clarify to whom you are leaving your assets. Doesn't make any difference to IHT


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## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

Jasmina said:


> OP seems concerned about tax SHE would face on inheriting from a parent.


Yes, Jasmina is indeed correct, well after much research it looks like the sensible option for now would be the 183 days rule.

I have a meeting with my accountant here in Canada to discuss some of the issues he can address. I've discovered that we don't actually have Inheritance tax  When someone passes away the executors file a tax return for the deceased person. Shares etc are sold and of course are subject to the same capital gains tax as they would have had they been alive..

D.H. would like to be 'settled' but I think the smart choice would be to hold off for now...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Goldeneye said:


> Yes, Jasmina is indeed correct, well after much research it looks like the sensible option for now would be the 183 days rule.
> 
> I have a meeting with my accountant here in Canada to discuss some of the issues he can address. I've discovered that we don't actually have Inheritance tax  When someone passes away the executors file a tax return for the deceased person. Shares etc are sold and of course are subject to the same capital gains tax as they would have had they been alive..
> 
> D.H. would like to be 'settled' but I think the smart choice would be to hold off for now...


I think that, like many of these issues, in practice they are less damaging than one might be led to expect. They might not really affect the decision as to when and where to relocate.

In the end you have to decide which is more important to you. Only you can do that. Do you value a few extra thousand euros over being settled, over peace of mind...That can only be a personal decision. No 'right' or 'wrong'.

We could have stayed in the UK, continued in business, earned more money....for what? To what end? When is enough enough? Again, only you can decide your priorities. We chose ours. We decided we were not rats and we didn't want to stay in the race. An enjoyable tranquil life won out over the desire to accumulate.

It is so nice not to have to worry overmuch about interest rates, investments and so on. When you are of working age then yes, you have to work. But as we see it, once you have reached your personal 'comfort level', the striving for more is a distraction. I'm sure we all know people who have what to us might seem the bare minimum of possessions yet have enviably contented lives.

Of course I'm not referring to the millions Europe-wide who are at subsistence level through no fault of their own. Not for them the luxury of choosing how to live. But when you can choose and the choice is between acquiring unnecessarily superfluous filthy lucre or spending your last years where you want to be we chose to walk. It's a personal thing, there's no 'morality' in it.
As I always say, horses for courses.


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## Missmemum (Jan 25, 2013)

*UK inheritance*

Hi this is my first post. Inheritance tax in the UK is 325 but if your other parent has passed away previously and all the assets were assumed by your recently passed parent, then you can use both parents tax allowance. The tax would be only payable on a much higher figure than the 325.


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## Missmemum (Jan 25, 2013)

HI Goldeneye,
I was wondering where you're located in Canada? I'm in BC and like you, are considering either Spain or back to the UK for my next move. Your post mirrored my thoughts in the way you said here in Canada we have the 'dream life' but seem to be just existing and not living. Canada has been great for me, but now feel I need a new adventure. At the end of the day all we have are the memories we create and I don't think how big our house was or the car we drove will factor! 
As the saying goes..."nothing is more damaging to the adventurous spirit of a man than a secure future".
Good luck on whatever you decide.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Missmemum said:


> HI Goldeneye,
> I was wondering where you're located in Canada? I'm in BC and like you, are considering either Spain or back to the UK for my next move. Your post mirrored my thoughts in the way you said here in Canada we have the 'dream life' but seem to be just existing and not living. Canada has been great for me, but now feel I need a new adventure. At the end of the day all we have are the memories we create and I don't think how big our house was or the car we drove will factor!
> As the saying goes..."nothing is more damaging to the adventurous spirit of a man than a secure future".
> Good luck on whatever you decide.


We bought a property in the Ottawa Valley and intended to retire there. After much thought we decided we would most probably die of boredom. There is only so much fun we can get out of delightful scenery.

Before we moved to Spain I flew over to visit family in Montreal and went to see the very small town where we had our property. The 'main street' was a picture of desolation: empty boarded up shops, those still open looking run-down - and there were fewer than twenty shops, cafes in the whole town!!
I think we had a narrow escape and we recognised that we are after all Europeans...


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## Goldeneye (Nov 12, 2011)

Hiya Missmemum..


I've only re-found this thread while scoping out if there were any other British/Canadians lurking, we are still moving towards getting all our duckies in a row...
Small world :confused2:... laughing here as I posted exactly the same comments to you on a different forum 6 months ago.. At least you answered me!! 

Hope things are moving forward for you, and if there are any ' joint EU / Canadians' out there who moved from Canada to Spain, could you please share your experiences with us...

Introduce yourselves please


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Interesting to hear about Canada - after working on oil rigs for 6 months in and around Alberta back in 1995, I was offered a permanent job there. I turned it down because even though property and just about everything else was very affordable there back then, it was all just cowboys, lumberjacks and oil workers (and I hate country and western music). These days I read about Canada having the richest middle class in the world and I wonder what might have been, but it sounds like things haven't changed that much (well in Alberta at least)


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## El Escocés (Apr 28, 2014)

bob_bob said:


> I enjoyed the Canadian winter as it happens lol. We're trying to get our children to leave the UK, Canada or New Zealand are the top choices, the UK is pretty much finished now, nothing to offer young professionals. At least in Canada or NZ they have needed skills and ROOM, lots of space plus we're in the very fortunate position to be able afford to get out and see them a couple of times a year.
> 
> If your going to rent and don't need to work again then Spain is for you, forget the UK, its not the country it once was.


Sad but true. The industrial revolution came and went and now the UK seems to be reverting to a state of feudal serfdom again. Opportunities of any value for people of all ages are hard to come by. Spain has plenty of problems of its own but at least the weather is warmer (with regional and seasonal exceptions) and the summers are longer.


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