# 189 Invitations: August 2020



## Mr. (Oct 18, 2019)

Hopefully we have some good news tonight.

Looking forward towards August 2020 now. 

Cheers


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## Aussie1208 (Sep 23, 2017)

And what's the good news?


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## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

Aussie1208 said:


> And what's the good news?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What do you think the good news will be on a "189 invitations" thread


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## Mr. (Oct 18, 2019)

fugitive_4u said:


> What do you think the good news will be on a "189 invitations" thread


Good news for Medical related occupation is also good news right ??


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## ankur31 (Aug 20, 2018)

Eagerly waiting for the August. I hope Architects are also invited this time since Civil Engineers were invited in July round. Does anyone have the data regarding how many invites were issued in July (and June, May). I only see figures upto April round on the skillselect page
https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/working-in-australia/skillselect/invitation-rounds


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## Rahul_AUS (Jul 27, 2017)

Australia’s migrant intake to drop massively by 80 per cent in 2020-21

The Economic and Fiscal Update delivered on Thursday, ahead of the Budget to be delivered on 6 October 2020, revealed Australia’s net overseas migration will fall from 154,000 in 2019-20 to merely 31,000 in 2020-21.

https://www.sbs.com.au/language/eng...b6MH1dnOxrKlk6cT04GgLf2NjltBBlOyb_ZtHtU7ldX4E

https://budget.gov.au/2020-efu/downloads/JEFU2020.pdf


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## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

Rahul_AUS said:


> Australia’s migrant intake to drop massively by 80 per cent in 2020-21
> 
> The Economic and Fiscal Update delivered on Thursday, ahead of the Budget to be delivered on 6 October 2020, revealed Australia’s net overseas migration will fall from 154,000 in 2019-20 to merely 31,000 in 2020-21.
> 
> ...


The Government is going to reduce the income eligibility requirement for the New Zealand stream of the Skilled Independent (subclass 189) visa (the Pathway) so more kiwis will now be eligible for 189. More places to come off from total 189 skilled ceiling.


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## Mr. (Oct 18, 2019)

Invitation round May 2020 and June 2020 data:


https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/working-in-australia/skillselect/invitation-rounds


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## Aussie dreamz (Feb 20, 2020)

mustafa01 said:


> The Government is going to reduce the income eligibility requirement for the New Zealand stream of the Skilled Independent (subclass 189) visa (the Pathway) so more kiwis will now be eligible for 189. More places to come off from total 189 skilled ceiling.


In addition, the government will undertake advertising campaign, apparently contact potential NZ citizens in Australia and encourage them to become permanent residents. I wonder what Australian government intends to acheive with this strategy since NZ applicants are included under Skilled Independent SC 189 category 
https://www.sbs.com.au/language/eng...e-to-drop-massively-by-80-per-cent-in-2020-21


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Aussie dreamz said:


> In addition, the government will undertake advertising campaign, apparently contact potential NZ citizens in Australia and encourage them to become permanent residents. I wonder what Australian government intends to acheive with this strategy since NZ applicants are included under Skilled Independent SC 189 category
> https://www.sbs.com.au/language/eng...e-to-drop-massively-by-80-per-cent-in-2020-21


DHA gets to show higher number of PR grants without actually having to grant them to applicants who were not eligible to work

So during students seminars they can quote that figure as a carrot

Cheers


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## Gunnidhi (Nov 6, 2019)

Thought on computer engineers in Aug round ?


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## ajchak84 (Dec 13, 2019)

@ NB / Others - I am in the process of increasing my points. Received NAATI results today. Shall I create a new EOI and withdraw the existing one. Note my spouse is yet to appear for English test although her ACS is done. We are both from 2613 skill set and are from offshore.


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## Aussie dreamz (Feb 20, 2020)

Gunnidhi said:


> Thought on computer engineers in Aug round ?


I'm not being overly pessimistic but looking at the present situation, I think 189 Points-Tested Stream will take a big hit in 2020-2021. DoHA will continue to conduct small targeted invitation rounds for some time may be even till the end of this financial year

Australian government has recently announced that they will encourage potential NZ applicants to become permanent residents by reducing minimum income threshold requirement. Since NZers have to prove income criteria for the past 3 out of 5 years through ATO tax notice assessments, the major assumption will be that they are already working and will not be a burden on welfare arrangements in the immediate future. As targeted invitation rounds continue to happen under 189 Points-Tested Stream, I think they will try to fill 189 quota to a certain extent with this decision

As we know that Jobkeeper and Jobseeker welfare programs are extended till March 2021. Australia's unemployment rate is expected to reach 10% in December this year. With international border closures and a range of other restrictions, the labour market will take some time to return back to pre COVID times. As a result, we might see temporary reduction in federal allocations for permanent migration intake atleast for this year

I sincerely hope that I am wrong as I am already in this boat but it is only wishful thinking. I wish you all have alternative plans and not pinned all your hopes on 189 SC!


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## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

ajchak84 said:


> @ NB / Others - I am in the process of increasing my points. Received NAATI results today. Shall I create a new EOI and withdraw the existing one. Note my spouse is yet to appear for English test although her ACS is done. We are both from 2613 skill set and are from offshore.


Update the same EOI with your NAATI details. Update the same again once your spouse completes her English and ACS.

There is no need to withdraw and create all over again, if there is no change in ANZSCO code.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

ajchak84 said:


> @ NB / Others - I am in the process of increasing my points. Received NAATI results today. Shall I create a new EOI and withdraw the existing one. Note my spouse is yet to appear for English test although her ACS is done. We are both from 2613 skill set and are from offshore.


Withdraw the old EOI and submit a new one
You will get 4 months additional validity
In these uncertain times, 4 months is a long period

Cheers


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## Aussie dreamz (Feb 20, 2020)

DoHA has finally updated today on Temporary Residents entry into Australia with critical skills and sectors (medical technology, critical infrastructure, telecommunications, engineering and mining, supply chain logistics, agricultural technology, food production, maritime industry, financial technology, large scale manufacturing, film and television production and emerging technology) are eligible for travel exemption during COVID times

This decision may indicate the future trend of Skillselect invitation rounds
https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/...yWAkdMOwtzpuUDRNNFmlmQqvKlyu69FH5DuQtPEPUKuD8


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## sahi88 (Jan 2, 2020)

Aussie dreamz said:


> DoHA has finally updated today on Temporary Residents entry into Australia with critical skills and sectors (medical technology, critical infrastructure, telecommunications, engineering and mining, supply chain logistics, agricultural technology, food production, maritime industry, financial technology, large scale manufacturing, film and television production and emerging technology) are eligible for travel exemption during COVID times
> 
> This decision may indicate the future trend of Skillselect invitation rounds
> https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/...yWAkdMOwtzpuUDRNNFmlmQqvKlyu69FH5DuQtPEPUKuD8


Can we relate Financial Technology with IT occupations such as Software Engineer, Business Analyst etc. ?


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## Aussie dreamz (Feb 20, 2020)

sahi88 said:


> Can we relate Financial Technology with IT occupations such as Software Engineer, Business Analyst etc. ?


I guess Software Engineers/Business Analysts belong to Emerging Technology as it is one of the critical industries listed by the department

Regardless, you can submit a request stating how you meet one of the critical skills/sector grounds for travel exemption as it does not cost anything


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## kraft95 (May 16, 2020)

sahi88 said:


> Can we relate Financial Technology with IT occupations such as Software Engineer, Business Analyst etc. ?


In my opinion, yes. But at least you have to be a technical guy who is currently working for a bank or securities company or insurance company or something related. Otherwise it's hard to consider a simple IT programmer or BA as a fintech guy.


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## kraft95 (May 16, 2020)

Aussie dreamz said:


> I'm not being overly pessimistic but looking at the present situation, I think 189 Points-Tested Stream will take a big hit in 2020-2021. DoHA will continue to conduct small targeted invitation rounds for some time may be even till the end of this financial year
> 
> Australian government has recently announced that they will encourage potential NZ applicants to become permanent residents by reducing minimum income threshold requirement. Since NZers have to prove income criteria for the past 3 out of 5 years through ATO tax notice assessments, the major assumption will be that they are already working and will not be a burden on welfare arrangements in the immediate future. As targeted invitation rounds continue to happen under 189 Points-Tested Stream, I think they will try to fill 189 quota to a certain extent with this decision
> 
> ...


Looks like even through Australia needs some sort of migrants this year, they still prefer NZer than someone from India, Asia or Europe. That's why they're actually making it easier. 

Hopefully they may consider to give someone like me - an IT technical who have lived in Australia for years and still onshore, a chance to stay.


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## wolverine09 (Sep 12, 2019)

Aussie dreamz said:


> I'm not being overly pessimistic but looking at the present situation, I think 189 Points-Tested Stream will take a big hit in 2020-2021. DoHA will continue to conduct small targeted invitation rounds for some time may be even till the end of this financial year
> 
> Australian government has recently announced that they will encourage potential NZ applicants to become permanent residents by reducing minimum income threshold requirement. Since NZers have to prove income criteria for the past 3 out of 5 years through ATO tax notice assessments, the major assumption will be that they are already working and will not be a burden on welfare arrangements in the immediate future. As targeted invitation rounds continue to happen under 189 Points-Tested Stream, I think they will try to fill 189 quota to a certain extent with this decision
> 
> ...


I am actually one of those people who put all my hopes on 189 SC since I am under computer network professionals  I am fine with temporary reduction but I hope they will start inviting computer network prof soon. as I already have a job here.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

wolverine09 said:


> I am actually one of those people who put all my hopes on 189 SC since I am under computer network professionals  I am fine with temporary reduction but I hope they will start inviting computer network prof soon. as I already have a job here.


If you have a job, try getting sponsorship through your employer
DHA is slowly moving towards a regime where states and employers sponsor the applicant instead of 189

Cheers


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## wolverine09 (Sep 12, 2019)

NB said:


> wolverine09 said:
> 
> 
> > I am actually one of those people who put all my hopes on 189 SC since I am under computer network professionals
> ...


It will be hard to get sponsorship since the company I worked for is a startup company, the best I can get is 1 year work exp for points. Thats why 189 is my only option or else I would have done so and tried get 186


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

wolverine09 said:


> It will be hard to get sponsorship since the company I worked for is a startup company, the best I can get is 1 year work exp for points. Thats why 189 is my only option or else I would have done so and tried get 186


Biggest reason why employer sponsored PR is the most unfair system ever. My employer is a large multinational company so I may get sponsorship more easily but that doesn't mean I am better in terms of skills and economy contribution than you.

Also, this system opens up preferential bias, some of the people that got sponsored in my office way earlier than others are the ones that are mates with the management or in one case, a relative of a director from other branch. Some people I've met are blackmailed by managers in to working towards ridiculous targets in order to get chance for PR...locals go home at 4PM...these people stay until 6-7PM etc...

They should decouple PR from company sponsorship and make generic requirements for PR after certain number of years spent in the country.


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## aamien (Jan 31, 2019)

Neb Ulozny said:


> Biggest reason why employer sponsored PR is the most unfair system ever. My employer is a large multinational company so I may get sponsorship more easily but that doesn't mean I am better in terms of skills and economy contribution than you.
> 
> Also, this system opens up preferential bias, some of the people that got sponsored in my office way earlier than others are the ones that are mates with the management or in one case, a relative of a director from other branch. Some people I've met are blackmailed by managers in to working towards ridiculous targets in order to get chance for PR...locals go home at 4PM...these people stay until 6-7PM etc...
> 
> They should decouple PR from company sponsorship and make generic requirements for PR after certain number of years spent in the country.


Bro

It is very sad to know. Hope things work for everyone.

Cheers


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## Vicky2020 (Apr 11, 2020)

I am an accountant waiting onshore at 95 for 189 since July 2019  I am so hopeless now. Can anyone please advise if 491 Nsw may still be available for accounting? I am Sydney based now and have no regional experience yet. Any thoughts/suggestions would be very much appreciated.


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## haroon154 (Aug 13, 2019)

Neb Ulozny said:


> Biggest reason why employer sponsored PR is the most unfair system ever. My employer is a large multinational company so I may get sponsorship more easily but that doesn't mean I am better in terms of skills and economy contribution than you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I still think employers being able to sponsor is better than the point system for 189. The current point system is aimed at lining the pockets of NAATI, PTE and professional year institutes to name a few. Getting though the above depends on which language you speak and how much money you have incase of PY. It doesn't emphasis the applicant's skill level. And I don't think I need to stress how PTE is not a good estimate of that either. I am pretty sure every member in this group knows that.

Some employers might be a bit dodgy, but I think the number of people who are effected by this would be significantly lower than the number of people being swindled by the above institutions. At least this way, people who are employed in their fields have a fast track pathway to pr. This does not displace any Aussie jobs either. The only reason a company would hire a non citizen/ resident is because they obviously think that person is a better fit than a resident. That's what interviews are for.

If they simply split the visa system into 3 categories-
1) employer sponsored. They can sponsor employees that they deem to be a good fit for the company. High number of places for this visa. Partners can't be added to the visa. They have to get a partner visa.
2) skilled visa like the 189- same system as now, but should not be allowed to add partners to visa. Partners should have to apply for partner visa. This visa should have limited numbers depending on skill shortages.
3) partner visa- for partners and dependants of above visa holders. Can freely apply and get the visa.

This way they can control the exact number of people coming in. This will ensure that people who get pr are people who are already employed or people whose skills are needed or their dependants and partners. This was no Aussie job will be displaced. 




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## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

haroon154 said:


> And I don't think I need to stress how PTE is not a good estimate of that either. I am pretty sure every member in this group knows that.


Include IELTS too here and not just single out PTE. I remember I tried to have an easy conversation during my Speaking test and rest assured, the examiner (or should I say an English Teacher) did not like it and I ended up scoring pathetic. If I were to speak that English, which is expected out of me in IELTS here, I would be laughed upon. Weird indeed..!



haroon154 said:


> If they simply split the visa system into 3 categories-
> 1) employer sponsored. They can sponsor employees that they deem to be a good fit for the company. High number of places for this visa. Partners can't be added to the visa. They have to get a partner visa.
> 2) skilled visa like the 189- same system as now, but should not be allowed to add partners to visa. Partners should have to apply for partner visa. This visa should have limited numbers depending on skill shortages.
> 3) partner visa- for partners and dependants of above visa holders. Can freely apply and get the visa.


You need to watch "Who gets to stay in Australia" thats on SBS every Wednesday at 8:30PM. Some wonderful insights come out of this series. One of the only deciding factor is economic contribution a migrant brings in. If you were to leave out skilled spouse, then that is not going to help their cause and may even discourage potential migrants, due to uncertainty around two different visas for one family unit. Remember, this is not for a temporary visa, but for Permanent Residence. Cant think of how a spouse can be left out of this.


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## haroon154 (Aug 13, 2019)

fugitive_4u said:


> Include IELTS too here and not just single out PTE. I remember I tried to have an easy conversation during my Speaking test and rest assured, the examiner (or should I say an English Teacher) did not like it and I ended up scoring pathetic. If I were to speak that English, which is expected out of me in IELTS here, I would be laughed upon. Weird indeed..!
> 
> 
> 
> You need to watch "Who gets to stay in Australia" thats on SBS every Wednesday at 8:30PM. Some wonderful insights come out of this series. One of the only deciding factor is economic contribution a migrant brings in. If you were to leave out skilled spouse, then that is not going to help their cause and may even discourage potential migrants, due to uncertainty around two different visas for one family unit. Remember, this is not for a temporary visa, but for Permanent Residence. Cant think of how a spouse can be left out of this.


I agree. 

Skilled spouses should be able to come in as well. If they are qualified in a skilled occupation that is in high demand they can be a part of the main application. Otherwise they can come in on a partner visa. 

I was just pointing out a way to ensure that the number of skilled people coming in though employer sponsored, and 189 are controlled and monitored to meet demand set by the economy.

There is no point in supply if there is no demand. That's how wages go down and highly skilled people end up driving uber and washing dishes. 

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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

haroon154 said:


> I agree.
> 
> Skilled spouses should be able to come in as well. If they are qualified in a skilled occupation that is in high demand they can be a part of the main application. Otherwise they can come in on a partner visa.
> 
> ...


But the problem is disconnect between people employed onshore and PR invites...it's like people on temp visas are somehow less skilled than those who get PR invites, which is a total nonsense. 

The fact that you already work in that field onshore should give massive point boost not just lousy 5-10 pts. How could you even get a job if you were not skilled and incapable of proper conversation in English language? Employer interview is the ultimate skill points test...not these generic points people fight for now and then end up working something totally different than the profession they got PR for.


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## haroon154 (Aug 13, 2019)

Neb Ulozny said:


> But the problem is disconnect between people employed onshore and PR invites...it's like people on temp visas are somehow less skilled than those who get PR invites, which is a total nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you already work in that field onshore should give massive point boost not just lousy 5-10 pts. How could you even get a job if you were not skilled and incapable of proper conversation in English language? Employer interview is the ultimate skill points test...not these generic points people fight for now and then end up working something totally different than the profession they got PR for.


True. My views exactly. People who actually managed to come to Australia, study and then somehow managed to find a job in their field should be given PR regardless of the so called points. This means they are very good at what they do and there is demand for them. It is understandable if there are limitations placed on age, but every other point system doesn't make sense. How can one year of Aussie experience (5 points) equate to PY (5 points) or NAATI (5 points). That's just stupid. Any idiot can do PY and do NAATI if they speak the language. Doesn't amount to any skill or contribution to the economy. 

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## locomomo (Jul 17, 2020)

haroon154 said:


> True. My views exactly. People who actually managed to come to Australia, study and then somehow managed to find a job in their field should be given PR regardless of the so called points. This means they are very good at what they do and there is demand for them. It is understandable if there are limitations placed on age, but every other point system doesn't make sense. How can one year of Aussie experience (5 points) equate to PY (5 points) or NAATI (5 points). That's just stupid. Any idiot can do PY and do NAATI if they speak the language. Doesn't amount to any skill or contribution to the economy.
> 
> Sent from my CPH1831 using Tapatalk


That is so-called employer sponsorship visa.


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## Aussie dreamz (Feb 20, 2020)

Alright, here goes nothing. I have decided to share my perspective after reading through recent posts on this thread in relation to PY, NAATI, skilled work experience points etc. My apologies in advance for the long post!

I came to study in Australia immediately after my under-graduation. The plan was to finish my graduation, apply for 485, get work experience and go back to my country. I still remember going through job adverts on Uni Job Portals/Seek etc. during my studies. Every single job advertisement for a Graduate/Intern Position (Civil Engineer) had a pre-requisite ‘Australian Citizen/Permanent Residents or New Zealand Citizens Only’. I spoke to many friends/seniors for advice on how to find a job after studies as they were once in a similar position. Everyone suggested to do Professional Year as they said it will help you to build your professional network/find an employer during work placement

Initially, I was very sceptical and I remember telling myself who would want to pay 15k for job experience. After graduation, I spent close to 3 months and applied to ~250 job advertisements for Graduate Civil Engineer positions in every corner of Australia. My visa status took the spotlight during phone calls, initial screenings and interview stages of recruitment despite having good grades from a premier institution in Australia. The HR always stressed on the expectations of Graduate position employees and the requirements of ''long-term commitment'' towards their company. As a result of spending ~70k on a 2-year course, this is where I gradually started to divert from my initial plan of going back to my country. I explored the options of staying back after 485 in order to build my career in Australia and thus began my journey towards permanent residency

Everyone that I know who completed PY has been retained by the host employer, got their PR and started going up the ladder in their companies. Finally, I caved in and enrolled in PY program. In my opinion, PY is a great opportunity for someone who does not have prior work experience to gain practical exposure and build professional networks in their respective fields during PY work placements and of course gain 5 points towards PR

I have seen many forum members bash NAATI CCL as to how useless the test is. The truth is, it is not designed to test our capability to interpret United Nations or a global summit or a scientific conference. NAATI has clearly stated that CCL testing only determines our ability to interpret general situational scenarios (day-to-day conversations) between two people speaking different languages and does not make us certified to work as a Translator or Interpreter. Above all, CCL certification is only intended to claim 5 points for migration purposes under points-tested visa

Skilled Independent 189 is not designed to prioritise applicants with just skilled work experience. It considers Australia’s skill needs with respect to a range of other factors. There has to be a rigorous consideration and valid reasoning behind Age (30P) and Language (English:20P & NAATI:5P) taking the major proportion in Australia’s points-tested visas. The idea of General Skilled Migration is not just for economic prosperity but also to strengthen Australia’s multi-cultural environment and enhanced lifestyle options. It has been proven in many societies including Australia that diverse population from different cultural backgrounds have always made an important social contribution by bringing new languages, ideas and perspectives to their communities

Onshore/Offshore Skilled workers with work experience/highly regarded achievements in their occupations always have the option to explore a range of visas on offer including both Temporary, Permanent Employer Nominated Visas (482, 186, 494) and Global Talent Visas. The Australian government has increased the proportion of Employer Sponsored Visas in comparison with previous year allocations only to ensure that Australian businesses can still access their immediate labour requirement and fill skill shortages in the workforce. Employer Sponsored is the largest category of visas offered under Skill Stream in 2019-2020 planning levels (40,000 out of 108,682 places). Overseas skilled worker have proven skill set, availability of employment on arrival and will also assist businesses to train locals who are starting out in their careers

I can only say that prospective migrants should always choose the Visa Subclass more appropriate to their current situation/expertise

We all know that Australian government collaborates with all level of governments and industry leaders to come up with a balanced migration program. They are always subject to scrutiny and internal audits to ensure that they are in line to manage current challenges with a focus on Australia’s long-term strategies. Even individuals like you and me will have an/had the opportunity to submit our views on future migration programs by sending an e-mail to [email protected] (14 Jan 2020 was the last day to submit our views on migration planning program levels for 2021-2022) 

P.S: My views on PY & NAATI are solely based on my experience and I am not affiliated with any of these organisations. I do agree that the prices set by PY institutes and NAATI organisation are exorbitant. I have nothing but utmost respect to every forum member’s views on this thread. This forum has been an amazing found to meet people with different perspectives and have a fair discussion on these issues


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## haroon154 (Aug 13, 2019)

Aussie dreamz said:


> Alright, here goes nothing. I have decided to share my perspective after reading through recent posts on this thread in relation to PY, NAATI, skilled work experience points etc. My apologies in advance for the long post!
> 
> I came to study in Australia immediately after my under-graduation. The plan was to finish my graduation, apply for 485, get work experience and go back to my country. I still remember going through job adverts on Uni Job Portals/Seek etc. during my studies. Every single job advertisement for a Graduate/Intern Position (Civil Engineer) had a pre-requisite ‘Australian Citizen/Permanent Residents or New Zealand Citizens Only’. I spoke to many friends/seniors for advice on how to find a job after studies as they were once in a similar position. Everyone suggested to do Professional Year as they said it will help you to build your professional network/find an employer during work placement
> 
> ...


Great perspective  thanks for sharing.

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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

Aussie dreamz said:


> I have seen many forum members bash NAATI CCL as to how useless the test is. The truth is, it is not designed to test our capability to interpret United Nations or a global summit or a scientific conference. NAATI has clearly stated that CCL testing only determines our ability to interpret general situational scenarios (day-to-day conversations) between two people speaking different languages and does not make us certified to work as a Translator or Interpreter. Above all, CCL certification is only intended to claim 5 points for migration purposes under points-tested visa


It still is useless and just another fee to be paid, simple reason being that you already do a much more comprehensive test of English language. If there was no PTE or IELTS, then by all means yes, it would be fine to do NAATI. We all know what NAATI states and what are the conditions, that's not debatable, the overall logic of this test is just ridiculous and nothing more than a way of subsidizing this government agency. 

I have a friend who came 20+ years ago and back then he got the points just because he came from a country that was listed under NAATI languages, as he passed IELTS it was considered obvious that he can translate between his mother tongue and English. Now you have to pay $800 for the obvious.

This is like paying $300 for advanced Uni grade math test...and then going back and paying $800 for simple KG arithmetic test.


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## haroon154 (Aug 13, 2019)

Yeah
If NAATI is suppose to promote multiculturalism and all that stuff, then why isn't every known language on the list. If the argument for that is, it depends on the number of people in Australia that speak the language, even then it doesn't make sense. Shouldn't it be in such a way that people who speak a language that is uncommon be given advantage. 

I say it's just a way to line the pockets of those institutions. They just choose languages that most people here already speak and then create an exam for it. In this way, they can make even more money than having languages that are actually rare. And the argument of being able to interpret conversations, why is this so important for specific languages. Everyone immigrating will be able to speak and understand their mother tongue better than anyone else like the person above said. Why is there a need for an exam if it's to test the ability to understand simple conversations.

Also with py, someone commented that it's a way to build network and critical skills. I did PY last year. It doesn't do any of that. The only skills they teach you is how to write resumes, cover letters and how to talk on the phone. I am pretty sure every person having a basic degree is competent in that. If not they are competent enough to search the internet and find out how to. And with networking, the only people you can network with are the other jobless people in the class who came there just for points. Even if you go to all the events they ask you to go to, you rarely meet anyone who can help/ care about your predicament. Also, you can go to there events without doing a py. And not need to spend around 15k. 

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## Aussie dreamz (Feb 20, 2020)

Yes, NAATI CCL is not useful beyond claiming points for migration purposes. They have made it very clear on their website and CCL certification letter. I completely agree that the prices set by PY institutes and NAATI organisation are exorbitantly high. At the end of the day, it is a business which intends to be mutually beneficial for both the parties involved. Unfortunately, even many Schools/Colleges/Uni around the world is swiftly moving towards making money rather than providing quality education and care about student’s future/career but, let us save that for the future

I am sure everyone here has encountered people from their own communities in their everyday life at least once where you would have assisted them in one way or the other by speaking in your own language. Even though, CCL is designed to test our ability in understanding simple conversations does not mean that there is no need for testing one’s capability. I also understand there is a section of people in the society who raise questions like ‘’why is there a need for exam’’. I think most of us know the answer if you introspect. For most students including myself, right from the days of KG, it is what motivates me to get better at what I do

As far as my views on PY is concerned, this is exactly why I stressed on the fact that it is based on my experience, situation and the critical observations of my own friends/seniors who completed PY in a particular field of study. Yes, I agree that the initial 32 weeks classes involve resumes, interview techniques and group activities/presentations which honestly is somewhat of a stretch considering we have gone through all these workshops during Uni

It may or may not hold true for someone from an Accounting, IT or some other Engineering background. I see so many job advertisements for Accountants/Software occupations even with part-time or casual availability flexible roles. Some of these adverts even target currently enrolled students which include international students. Unfortunately, this is not the case for Graduate/Internship positions for Civil Engineering Professionals. Numero Uno pre-requisite ''Australian Citizens/Permanent Residents or New Zealand Citizens only''

To clarify further, I was very proactive, attended many networking events during Uni days, met with potential recruiters and discussed my situation. Very few of them understood the situation and asked me to contact them once my residency status change. The most important point that I would like to emphasise is that if I could find a job in my field after graduation, PY would not have existed for me. After 3 months of job hunting and the final realisation that it will take more time to establish my career is when I started to explore PR pathways, moved from a city to regional area, the current points requirement for 189 SC and then PY came into picture. The fact that you gain the valuable 5 points towards PR is what finally changed my decision. The three-month work placement is just an added bonus which will give me the opportunity or ''the first step'' in my industry

As far as networking with other ‘’jobless’’ people and PY being a waste of time is concerned. It is completely your choice on how you approach the situation. As the saying goes one man’s trash is another man’s treasure. The pain of spending so much time and money make you utilise everything that you have on the plate for your own benefit. This is the only approach I believe to be beneficial in the future


----------



## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

Aussie dreamz said:


> Yes, NAATI CCL is not useful beyond claiming points for migration purposes. They have made it very clear on their website and CCL certification letter. I completely agree that the prices set by PY institutes and NAATI organisation are exorbitantly high. At the end of the day, it is a business which intends to be mutually beneficial for both the parties involved. Unfortunately, even many Schools/Colleges/Uni around the world is swiftly moving towards making money rather than providing quality education and care about student’s future/career but, let us save that for the future
> 
> I am sure everyone here has encountered people from their own communities in their everyday life at least once where you would have assisted them in one way or the other by speaking in your own language. Even though, CCL is designed to test our ability in understanding simple conversations does not mean that there is no need for testing one’s capability. I also understand there is a section of people in the society who raise questions like ‘’why is there a need for exam’’. I think most of us know the answer if you introspect. For most students including myself, right from the days of KG, it is what motivates me to get better at what I do


Again, nobody is claiming to be tricked in to thinking NAATI was useful for anything else than 5pts. We are only discussing the actual value of it and purpose when you already had much more comprehensive test of English language.

To bring some perspective in...it would be similar situation if there was another Degree Assessment procedure, but for your primary school paperwork. So although you passed your Bachelor or Masters or PhD assessment, you can assess your primary school grades to get 5 pts more. This is what NAATI is compared to PTE or IELTS.

I understand your belief that there must be some reason for this and gov is doing their best to assess everyone equally...but really, sometimes it's just about plain old cash. The fact that NAATI is not mandatory either tells you how important it really is, or not.

And this whole resume building training is just appalling, I get graduate resumes with 5 pages. I get it that they have been taught to put everything in but really...5 pages at the start of your career? And none of it matters really, we train graduates and don't expect them to put in "Assistant Dairy Manager at Coles" as a valuable engineering experience...when I asked the guy about it I realised he was putting milk on shelves. I wish students are taught more of real engineering values rather than aggressive self marketing which really has not much use in the field.


----------



## yyctobne (Apr 1, 2020)

Neb Ulozny said:


> Again, nobody is claiming to be tricked in to thinking NAATI was useful for anything else than 5pts. We are only discussing the actual value of it and purpose when you already had much more comprehensive test of English language.
> 
> To bring some perspective in...it would be similar situation if there was another Degree Assessment procedure, but for your primary school paperwork. So although you passed your Bachelor or Masters or PhD assessment, you can assess your primary school grades to get 5 pts more. This is what NAATI is compared to PTE or IELTS.


Not sure I agree with this statement. IELTS is a test of your comprehension of the English language. NAATI is a test of your ability to interpret between English and a second language. 

Not everyone who is good at English can interpret into a second language. For example, I am a native English speaker and scored 9/9 on all sections of IELTS with relative ease. It took me about 20 hours of study. In order to pass NAATI CCL (on second attempt ), I had to study about 200 hours and spend a considerable amount of effort improving my LOTE language skills.

So, no, scoring high on IELTS/PTE does not automatically guarantee that someone can interpret to the level required for NAATI CCL. Maybe for a native non-English speaker, which many PR aspirants are, but for someone whose first language is English they are definitely two very different skills.


----------



## yyctobne (Apr 1, 2020)

haroon154 said:


> How can one year of Aussie experience (5 points) equate to PY (5 points) or NAATI (5 points). That's just stupid. Any idiot can do PY and do NAATI if they speak the language. Doesn't amount to any skill or contribution to the economy.


I don't think the points gained from NAATI/PY are meant to "equate" to one year of Australian work experience. They are separate categories. 



haroon154 said:


> True. My views exactly. People who actually managed to come to Australia, study and then somehow managed to find a job in their field should be given PR regardless of the so called points.


Maybe not automatically "given PR" but, yes, I would agree that studying onshore and then securing work in your field should be enough to warrant a reliable pathway to PR. This would be in the best interest of candidates and the Government.


----------



## Aussie dreamz (Feb 20, 2020)

The Skillselect dashboard that comprises of EOI statistics is now available again on the department's Skillselect webpage!

https://api.dynamic.reports.employm...ct_EOI_Data/hSKLS02_SkillSelect_EOI_Data.html


----------



## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

Aussie dreamz said:


> The Skillselect dashboard that comprises of EOI statistics is now available again on the department's Skillselect webpage!
> 
> https://api.dynamic.reports.employm...ct_EOI_Data/hSKLS02_SkillSelect_EOI_Data.html


Some raw insight for the number of EOIs in the queue waiting for an invite.

More than 5800 EOIs with 90 points
More than 2200 EOIs with 95 points
Around 400 EOIs for 100 Points
Around 50 EOIs for 105 points
Less than 10 EOIs for 110 Points


----------



## hyar41 (Aug 1, 2020)

I submitted EOI today for 189 and I did not get any option for identification document but eoi was created successfully. I was just wondering if the form is updated or i made any mistake.


----------



## locomomo (Jul 17, 2020)

*I love the data*



Aussie dreamz said:


> The Skillselect dashboard that comprises of EOI statistics is now available again on the department's Skillselect webpage!
> 
> https://api.dynamic.reports.employm...ct_EOI_Data/hSKLS02_SkillSelect_EOI_Data.html


Bro, you made my day! Have been exploring the data with so much relief.


----------



## locomomo (Jul 17, 2020)

*It's EOI not visa*



hyar41 said:


> I submitted EOI today for 189 and I did not get any option for identification document but eoi was created successfully. I was just wondering if the form is updated or i made any mistake.


There's no identification process. It's EOI not visa.

Cheers


----------



## giri3072 (May 8, 2020)

*Question on Architects skill list*

Hi @ankur31, 

You have mentioned on your comment that Architects are invited. In the list, i could not able to see. Also, can you please provide me some insights on how much points are required for architects in order to get the invitation and how long does it take to get ? 

Thanks In advance 

Vijay


----------



## ali_t110 (Aug 11, 2019)

I cant understand why i didnt get invitation with 95 points in july round while dha has issued invitations in this occupation.( doe 1 july)
one person confirmed 491 technologist in this round.
Really confused!


----------



## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

ali_t110 said:


> I cant understand why i didnt get invitation with 95 points in july round while dha has issued invitations in this occupation.( doe 1 july)
> one person confirmed 491 technologist in this round.
> Really confused!


Don’t believe what somebody claims and get upset
Half the claims are false

Wait for the official data and then react

Cheers


----------



## Johnathan Ho (Nov 22, 2018)

Hello everyone,

I have question regard to partner point. My partner is skilled and I get 10 pts for 189. Will it affect my EOI's ranking if I drop her out?

Cheers


----------



## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

Johnathan Ho said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have question regard to partner point. My partner is skilled and I get 10 pts for 189. Will it affect my EOI's ranking if I drop her out?
> 
> Cheers


189 EOI invite priority is based on Date of effect and total point score, not any individual component. 
What do you mean by dropping your partner out? Claim that you are single and provide misleading information in EOI? I would suggest don't try to look for loopholes as it will cost you your visa.


----------



## Silentpoison (Sep 30, 2019)

Johnathan Ho said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have question regard to partner point. My partner is skilled and I get 10 pts for 189. Will it affect my EOI's ranking if I drop her out?
> 
> Cheers


If you are dropping her out then it will affect your points as your marital status is married and doe will change whenever there is a increase/decrease in points


----------



## 1733258 (Nov 17, 2019)

Aussie dreamz said:


> The Skillselect dashboard that comprises of EOI statistics is now available again on the department's Skillselect webpage!
> 
> https://api.dynamic.reports.employm...ct_EOI_Data/hSKLS02_SkillSelect_EOI_Data.html


Can only search two parameters and even then, it shows only numbers greater than 20


----------



## locomomo (Jul 17, 2020)

*Not that bad*



mfh5001 said:


> Can only search two parameters and even then, it shows only numbers greater than 20


It has flaws. I could query [nominated state, points, occupation] for you.


----------



## Sud26 (May 13, 2020)

How do people even get 110 points for 189?


----------



## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Sud26 said:


> How do people even get 110 points for 189?


Their life is decided by points only
Nothing else matters

Cheers


----------



## sawtinnmaung (Jan 21, 2016)

Sud26 said:


> How do people even get 110 points for 189?


I guess as below.

Age------------30
English---------20
AU Exp (1yr)------5
Education-------15
AU Study-------- 5
STEM-----------10
NATTI-----------5
Regional Study----5
Professional Year--5
Partner/Single---10

Total----------110


----------



## ajchak84 (Dec 13, 2019)

Hi - I am in the process of updating my EOI and want to include my spouse and kid in the application. In such a scenario, will the no of application be 2 or 3. I being the primary applicant?


----------



## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

ajchak84 said:


> Hi - I am in the process of updating my EOI and want to include my spouse and kid in the application. In such a scenario, will the no of application be 2 or 3. I being the primary applicant?


Only 1 application. With you being Primary or Main applicant, rest of the included family members will be classified as secondary/dependents.


----------



## gsr_2339 (Feb 19, 2020)

sawtinnmaung said:


> Sud26 said:
> 
> 
> > How do people even get 110 points for 189?
> ...


Wow! they have utilised all the points in the points calculator😁


----------



## amib (Jun 12, 2019)

ICT Business Analyst. 

EOI lodged 4th August 2020 at 90 points


----------



## Sunilpau837 (Jul 25, 2019)

Just a quick query, i am currently on 85 points. I have applied in 2 occupation ( soft and app programmer and ICT security specialist). I will turn 25 next feb and will have 90 points and my acs assessment will be expiring next years August for both occupation. 
The problem is, Acs have changed the requirement for assessing ICT security specialist and as I havent done cyber security unit so I dont think I would be able to renew the ICT security occupation if it expires .
So what should I do?.
Also, does the acs assessment need to be valid till the date of invitation or till the date of grant?.
Need suggestion. Thanks in advance.


----------



## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Sunilpau837 said:


> Just a quick query, i am currently on 85 points. I have applied in 2 occupation ( soft and app programmer and ICT security specialist). I will turn 25 next feb and will have 90 points and my acs assessment will be expiring next years August for both occupation.
> The problem is, Acs have changed the requirement for assessing ICT security specialist and as I havent done cyber security unit so I dont think I would be able to renew the ICT security occupation if it expires .
> So what should I do?.
> Also, does the acs assessment need to be valid till the date of invitation or till the date of grant?.
> Need suggestion. Thanks in advance.


ACS assessment needs to be valid only till the date of final invite

Cheers


----------



## Sunilpau837 (Jul 25, 2019)

NB said:


> Sunilpau837 said:
> 
> 
> > Just a quick query, i am currently on 85 points. I have applied in 2 occupation ( soft and app programmer and ICT security specialist). I will turn 25 next feb and will have 90 points and my acs assessment will be expiring next years August for both occupation.
> ...


[email protected]
I had one more query, 
So currently I have a valid assessment for ICT security specialist. Now ACS have changed the requirement for it. If I have to renew then would they renew it straight away as It is already assessed ir they would reject because the requirement changed?
Thanks


----------



## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Sunilpau837 said:


> [email protected]
> I had one more query,
> So currently I have a valid assessment for ICT security specialist. Now ACS have changed the requirement for it. If I have to renew then would they renew it straight away as It is already assessed ir they would reject because the requirement changed?
> Thanks


There is no option of reassessment in ACS
You have to submit a complete new application with the current evidence requirements so obviously you will get rejected

Cheers


----------



## ankur31 (Aug 20, 2018)

Tonight could be it!! All the best guys 😊


----------



## SLPQ (Feb 6, 2019)

ankur31 said:


> Tonight could be it!! All the best guys 😊


Wish u luck too bruh!!!


----------



## kyle47 (Aug 10, 2020)

Sunilpau837 said:


> Just a quick query, i am currently on 85 points. I have applied in 2 occupation ( soft and app programmer and ICT security specialist). I will turn 25 next feb and will have 90 points and my acs assessment will be expiring next years August for both occupation.
> The problem is, Acs have changed the requirement for assessing ICT security specialist and as I havent done cyber security unit so I dont think I would be able to renew the ICT security occupation if it expires .
> So what should I do?.
> Also, does the acs assessment need to be valid till the date of invitation or till the date of grant?.
> Need suggestion. Thanks in advance.


I got IT Security Specialist for the 485 visa last year. And I just submitted the full skill assessment of IT security Specialist last week. My major is Data Analysis, and I only studied few related security units in my University. I will let you know when I get the result from ACS.


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## kevaljax (Sep 18, 2018)

amib said:


> ICT Business Analyst.
> 
> EOI lodged 4th August 2020 at 90 points


Are you onshore or offshore?

Sent from my RMX1971 using Tapatalk


----------



## LuckyEli (Aug 10, 2020)

*Skillselect api service*

hi guys, while playing with the skillselect api, searching for 2613 90 pointers for 189, i found these results:

As at:
01/2020 - 225
02/2020 - 247
03/2020 - 166

Last time i checked, the last invite for the above occupation has DOE 29/01/2020 with 90pts. How come there are still 225 as at 01/2020?

And how come there are more EOIs as at 02/2020 compared to 03/2020?

Hope someone can enlighten me. 
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Ash_182004 (Aug 10, 2020)

did anyone get an invite last night?


----------



## Ash_182004 (Aug 10, 2020)

*189 Invitation*

did anyone get an invite yet ( 11 august 2020)?


----------



## Sud26 (May 13, 2020)

Looks like the invitation rounds hasn't happened yet


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## locomomo (Jul 17, 2020)

*Snapshot*



LuckyEli said:


> hi guys, while playing with the skillselect api, searching for 2613 90 pointers for 189, i found these results:
> 
> As at:
> 01/2020 - 225
> ...


*As At Month* means the data snapshot at that time. When at 01/2020, the last invited DOE is not 29/01/2020 but 2/10/2019.


----------



## Aussie dreamz (Feb 20, 2020)

Sud26 said:


> Looks like the invitation rounds hasn't happened yet


Another small round only for critical occupations under 189 SC. Apparently, few GP's and registered nurse were invited this morning with latest DOE 27/07/2020 @ 90P for GP
*(Source: ISCAH FB)*


----------



## Mr. (Oct 18, 2019)

ISCAH Facebook Post:


Skill Select 11th August 2020 results 
-------------------------------------------------
Another small round of what looks like just medical and other critical occupations seem to have been invited this morning
The lowest score we have seen was 
90 points, General Practitioner 
EOI effect date of 27th July 2020 
Several nurses we have seen invited 
No details of engineering invites yet
We will post any further details we receive later on this thread


----------



## Sud26 (May 13, 2020)

Aussie dreamz said:


> Another small round only for critical occupations under 189 SC. Apparently, few GP's and registered nurse were invited this morning with latest DOE 27/07/2020 @ 90P for GP
> *(Source: ISCAH FB)*


That's ****ed up, isn't it?


----------



## Aussie dreamz (Feb 20, 2020)

Sud26 said:


> That's ****ed up, isn't it?


Well so is COVID and the Australian economic outlook!


----------



## Kunaljindal9 (Jul 14, 2020)

Has anyone here got an invitation? It does not seem like anyone got invite except a few people who reported to Iscah! Could it be people reported invites for 190/491 given that they were in critical sectors like health??

Also below message appears on Skill Select login, wouldn't it be odd to send invitations just a night before the server maintenance? It would certainly cause a bit of confusion among the invitees if they can't access their invitation. Just a thought :confused2:

_*Posted on: 6/08/2020 at 14:45

Maintenance work is scheduled for SkillSelect from 10am to 12:30pm AEST Wednesday, 12 August 2020. SkillSelect may experience outages during this period. Please try again later.*_


----------



## Sud26 (May 13, 2020)

Kunaljindal9 said:


> Has anyone here got an invitation? It does not seem like anyone got invite except a few people who reported to Iscah! Could it be people reported invites for 190/491 given that they were in critical sectors like health??
> 
> Also below message appears on Skill Select login, wouldn't it be odd to send invitations just a night before the server maintenance? It would certainly cause a bit of confusion among the invitees if they can't access their invitation. Just a thought :confused2:
> 
> ...


This and also doesn't make sense to invite all Engineering 90 points last month and restrict it this month. But Hey, DHS is unpredictable. 

Better to wait for confirmed news from a different source as well.


----------



## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

Kunaljindal9 said:


> Has anyone here got an invitation? It does not seem like anyone got invite except a few people who reported to Iscah! Could it be people reported invites for 190/491 given that they were in critical sectors like health??
> 
> Also below message appears on Skill Select login, wouldn't it be odd to send invitations just a night before the server maintenance? It would certainly cause a bit of confusion among the invitees if they can't access their invitation. Just a thought :confused2:
> 
> ...


Nothing unusual. SkillSelect can still send invites. Keep it mind these are manually adjusted rounds for hand-picking people.


----------



## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

Sud26 said:


> This and also doesn't make sense to invite all Engineering 90 points last month and restrict it this month. But Hey, DHS is unpredictable.
> 
> Better to wait for confirmed news from a different source as well.


DoHA have already made it very clear that they will invite who they believe would be benefical with the immediate and post recovery impacts of COVID-19.

Targeted invitation rounds have continued each month and prioritise skills which are in critical need and will aid Australia’s economic recovery in a way that does not displace jobs opportunities for Australians and PR.


----------



## metuli (Oct 7, 2019)

mustafa01 said:


> DoHA have already made it very clear that they will invite who they believe would be benefical with the immediate and post recovery impacts of COVID-19.
> 
> Targeted invitation rounds have continued each month and prioritise skills which are in critical need and will aid Australia’s economic recovery in a way that does not displace jobs opportunities for Australians and PR.



! What do you think about chances for 90 pointers in other non-prioritized occupations in this situation? Will targeted invitation replace point-based automatic invitation? And gradually 189 stream will no longer be available? Feeling so pessimistic!


----------



## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

metuli said:


> ! What do you think about chances for 90 pointers in other non-prioritized occupations in this situation? Will targeted invitation replace point-based automatic invitation? And gradually 189 stream will no longer be available? Feeling so pessimistic!


Covid is still not done and economy is not showing any signs of recovery. In such a developing scenario, nobody can say what may happen in 3 months from now. Heck, even the PM cannot assure he will open Int'l borders before Christmas, which is more than 4 months away. He earlier said he would, now he is not sure..!

Same holds good for Visa's and Invites.


----------



## yyctobne (Apr 1, 2020)

Yeah no idea what's going on here. Last month they invited Civil and Other Engineers at 90 points but not this month?

No way borders are opening up by Christmas. If anything they will wait until after Xmas/ School holiday season to reduce the appeal for people to travel during the break. I think February 1 could be realistic for some semblance of a border reopening.


----------



## kraft95 (May 16, 2020)

Hopefully there would be some changes this October.


----------



## liamerr (Nov 29, 2019)

My EoI was submitted 3 months ago with 80 (+5) points but I only put NSW state in there.
I am expecting to get another 5p from NAATI (hopefully in 1 month) & 5p from working experience next Jan.
Should I update it to any state now to increase my chance of getting the invite or wait til I get the extra points?


----------



## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

liamerr said:


> My EoI was submitted 3 months ago with 80 (+5) points but I only put NSW state in there.
> I am expecting to get another 5p from NAATI (hopefully in 1 month) & 5p from working experience next Jan.
> Should I update it to any state now to increase my chance of getting the invite or wait til I get the extra points?


Then it would be classified as you putting misleading information in EOI. If invited and you cannot prove your claims then your visa application will be rejected.


----------



## liamerr (Nov 29, 2019)

mustafa01 said:


> Then it would be classified as you putting misleading information in EOI. If invited and you cannot prove your claims then your visa application will be rejected.


I think you misunderstood me. I am thinking about changing my state preference to 'Any state' in stead of just 'NSW' right now. Not updating the points I have not obtained.


----------



## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

liamerr said:


> I think you misunderstood me. I am thinking about changing my state preference to 'Any state' in stead of just 'NSW' right now. Not updating the points I have not obtained.


Then that's fine, you can check any state box if you meet that state/territory requirements.


----------



## liamerr (Nov 29, 2019)

mustafa01 said:


> Then that's fine, you can check any state box if you meet that state/territory requirements.


But then that that would put me at the bottom of the list of people having the same points am I correct?


----------



## kayan (Dec 10, 2017)

liamerr said:


> But then that that would put me at the bottom of the list of people having the same points am I correct?



Not at all, your EOI date changes only when points change. This check box will not change a damn thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

liamerr said:


> But then that that would put me at the bottom of the list of people having the same points am I correct?


For state nomination(190) DOE does not play a major factor. People get picked with lowest points and earliest DOE. It's not like 189.


----------



## raghu_karam8 (May 3, 2019)

mustafa01 said:


> For state nomination(190) DOE does not play a major factor. People get picked with lowest points and earliest DOE. It's not like 189.


Would you know if offshore candidates also usually get invited for 190? I am an offshore software engineer and my wife is an electronics engineer (both got assessed), and I am going to apply next month for individual states with either 95 or 100 points.


----------



## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

raghu_karam8 said:


> Would you know if offshore candidates also usually get invited for 190? I am an offshore software engineer and my wife is an electronics engineer (both got assessed), and I am going to apply next month for individual states with either 95 or 100 points.


Pre covid, yes both onshore and offshore people who meets States criteria would normally get invited but now it's a completely different world. DoHA is running targeted invitation rounds inviting only onshore applicants from certain occupations and States have been advised to follow the same with their limited allocations. I think their priority at the moment is to invite only onshore applicants. Maybe after 6 October they might change that policy.


----------



## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

raghu_karam8 said:


> Would you know if offshore candidates also usually get invited for 190? I am an offshore software engineer and my wife is an electronics engineer (both got assessed), and I am going to apply next month for individual states with either 95 or 100 points.


State sponsorship is totally a game of luck
No one can predict what will happen
Applicants with 65 points get invited and those with 100 sit twiddling their thumbs
You have to check carefully which states allow offshore applicants and apply

Cheers


----------



## raghu_karam8 (May 3, 2019)

mustafa01 said:


> Pre covid, yes both onshore and offshore people who meets States criteria would normally get invited but now it's a completely different world. DoHA is running targeted invitation rounds inviting only onshore applicants from certain occupations and States have been advised to follow the same with their limited allocations. I think their priority at the moment is to invite only onshore applicants. Maybe after 6 October they might change that policy.


Thank you for your reply!


----------



## ajchak84 (Dec 13, 2019)

Need one suggestion, I got myself assessed for 261399(code suggested by ACS) and the plan was to apply only for 189 as this code is not applicable for most of the states under 190. As I am an offshore aspirant who is currently on 80 with good chances of being on 90 with partner points by end of this month. In order to be eligible for 190 pathway do I need to revisit my ACS process and apply for codes such as 261313 (SE) etc. Gurus , please suggest. Things look tough considering the current trend. Note that I can sustain 90 points (whenever I achieve it) for a span of 3-4 years.


----------



## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

ajchak84 said:


> Need one suggestion, I got myself assessed for 261399(code suggested by ACS) and the plan was to apply only for 189 as this code is not applicable for most of the states under 190. As I am an offshore aspirant who is currently on 80 with good chances of being on 90 with partner points by end of this month. In order to be eligible for 190 pathway do I need to revisit my ACS process and apply for codes such as 261313 (SE) etc. Gurus , please suggest. Things look tough considering the current trend. Note that I can sustain 90 points (whenever I achieve it) for a span of 3-4 years.


Yes you need to apply for a new assessment for Software Engineer.


----------



## Rahul_AUS (Jul 27, 2017)

Hi Guys,

After 2 years wait, I managed to reach 90 points. But looking at the situation it’s very unlikely anyone will get invitations these days. My code is 261312.

Sadly, My PTE is going to be expired in December and I will loose 5 points for my age too. 

I have started my migration journey 3 years back..several PTE attempts..traveled to Aus for NAATI but looking at the current situation i have no choice but just to wait till I lose my 25 points(PTE & Age). Even if I re-take PTE, I will never reach 90 points again.

Due to Covid-19, Many applicants are in the same situation as me but is there anything we can do at the moment before we lose our hardly earned points? 

Experts please advise. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

Rahul_AUS said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> After 2 years wait, I managed to reach 90 points. But looking at the situation it’s very unlikely anyone will get invitations these days. My code is 261312.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about your journey and then staring at uncertainty when you are almost there.

I would suggest you to stay put wherever you are. Get your PTE again and score 20 points, in the end you will lose only 5 points for your age

Don't pin much hopes on 189, but lets see how 190 goes in couple of months from now.

All the best..!


----------



## Silentpoison (Sep 30, 2019)

Rahul_AUS said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> After 2 years wait, I managed to reach 90 points. But looking at the situation it’s very unlikely anyone will get invitations these days. My code is 261312.
> 
> ...


Few have already lost and dropped from even 95. So many are there like you. Frankly, there is nothing to be done from our side. I would suggest you to prepare for PTE, but don’t give it immediately. Wait and see the trend if they are inviting in bulk like before .Else it’s waste of money.


----------



## Aussie dreamz (Feb 20, 2020)

July 2020 Skillselect results are out!

I'm glad to see that nearly 500 invitations were issued for 189 SC and of course targeted occupations only!
https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/working-in-australia/skillselect/invitation-rounds


----------



## Sud26 (May 13, 2020)

Aussie dreamz said:


> July 2020 Skillselect results are out!
> 
> I'm glad to see that nearly 500 invitations were issued for 189 SC and of course targeted occupations only!
> https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/working-in-australia/skillselect/invitation-rounds


So July was 500 with all critical occupations and August is less than 50 with just medical personals? Doesn't make sense but a similar trend was followed last FY.


----------



## anujtaya (Sep 17, 2019)

Rahul_AUS said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> After 2 years wait, I managed to reach 90 points. But looking at the situation it’s very unlikely anyone will get invitations these days. My code is 261312.
> 
> ...


Don't lose hope mate. Go for NATTI and get back your PTE score (e2language.com for self-study is the best option). I too waited for 2 years before receiving invite at 90 points for developer programmer. Once the situation back to normal, you will get your invite.
:fingerscrossed:


----------



## Vicky2020 (Apr 11, 2020)

Hi all, 

The occupation ceiling has been now updated for 20/21.
Hope this news helps.


----------



## anujtaya (Sep 17, 2019)

Vicky2020 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> The occupation ceiling has been now updated for 20/21.
> Hope this news helps.



Its not good for accountants. Only 1000 places.


----------



## Vicky2020 (Apr 11, 2020)

anujtaya said:


> Its not good for accountants. Only 1000 places.


I know. Also, accountant includes all other skilled visas  Only people with 100 points and above may have a chance. I already lost hope on it. Max out my points at 95.


----------



## anujtaya (Sep 17, 2019)

Vicky2020 said:


> anujtaya said:
> 
> 
> > Its not good for accountants. Only 1000 places.
> ...


Hope you get an invite in 190/491 🤞


----------



## Vicky2020 (Apr 11, 2020)

anujtaya said:


> Hope you get an invite in 190/491 🤞


Thank you. I am only eligible for NSW 190 but it looks gloomy too, so I am ready to leave Australia now. 

Hope all the best to you too.


----------



## Gunnidhi (Nov 6, 2019)

I dont think they even issue this much invites which they mention in the ceiling list.


----------



## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

Gunnidhi said:


> I dont think they even issue this much invites which they mention in the ceiling list.


They are not obliged to fill the quota. Ceiling is not target to be reached.


----------



## Gunnidhi (Nov 6, 2019)

True, read things around it again.


----------



## emios88 (Feb 2, 2017)

Accountants are officially done with only 1000 places


----------



## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

emios88 said:


> Accountants are officially done with only 1000 places


Out of those 1000, they might issue only 20-30% invitations in this FY as we have seen that from past few rounds onshore accountants who have 100+ points are not getting any invites


----------



## Architect Joe (Aug 26, 2019)

Vicky2020 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> The occupation ceiling has been now updated for 20/21.
> Hope this news helps.


 Not able to view it. Where are you all getting it?


Got it. Unable to delete. Please ignore.


----------



## gsr_2339 (Feb 19, 2020)

Gunnidhi said:


> I dont think they even issue this much invites which they mention in the ceiling list.


I agree with you mate earlier when dha used to give 30-40k invitations then those ceilings would make sense as some occutions would reach their quota before the end of FY itself but now these ceilings does not make sense as they have allocated 12000 seats for 189 out of which they are hardly giving some 8000 invitations.


----------



## ashumA (Jul 9, 2018)

Hi, 

Can anyone share the occupation ceiling link for 2020-2021

Thanks
Ashu


----------



## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

ashumA said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can anyone share the occupation ceiling link for 2020-2021
> 
> ...


https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/vis...KN-tuhnw3OliSeP5Inp8YDmZJdarnJiIcCaUV1HM1N1WQ

Almost 18 thousand spots for nurses? I really doubt they need this many, this is just wishful thinking and generic percentage across the total allowed quota.

5200 Motor Mechanics?!?!? This is insane number, hence I really doubt these make any difference to invites unless your profession is the one that got trimmed to very low quota numbers.


----------



## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

Neb Ulozny said:


> https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/vis...KN-tuhnw3OliSeP5Inp8YDmZJdarnJiIcCaUV1HM1N1WQ
> 
> Almost 18 thousand spots for nurses? I really doubt they need this many, this is just wishful thinking and generic percentage across the total allowed quota.
> 
> 5200 Motor Mechanics?!?!? This is insane number, hence I really doubt these make any difference to invites unless your profession is the one that got trimmed to very low quota numbers.


Mere mortals like you and me are not privy to the data and factors that go into making this list and ceilings that are set. So, for all you know, no matter how surprising they are, could be the real requirement of Oz economy.


----------



## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

fugitive_4u said:


> Mere mortals like you and me are not privy to the data and factors that go into making this list and ceilings that are set. So, for all you know, no matter how surprising they are, could be the real requirement of Oz economy.


I admire your full confidence in this data...I can tell you with 100% assurance, this country doesn't need 7145 Construction Managers. This is just an insane number that doesn't correspond with the actual vacancies in real life...and it's very easy to check. 

Plus I have 2-3 friends with this background who are struggling to find work at this moment...but judging by these numbers should be plenty of jobs and employers would have to fight to get these people on to their projects. So yes, I am a mere mortal in terms of gov insight but I work in the industry and have much better view on the situation in the actual work place. If we needed 7145 Construction Managers then that would translate in to 15000 Project Engineers to support them and so on...

Anyways, these numbers mean nothing...they invite 50 of them anyways and will never even be close to this cap.


----------



## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

Neb Ulozny said:


> I admire your full confidence in this data...I can tell you with 100% assurance, this country doesn't need 7145 Construction Managers. This is just an insane number that doesn't correspond with the actual vacancies in real life...and it's very easy to check.
> 
> Plus I have 2-3 friends with this background who are struggling to find work at this moment...but judging by these numbers should be plenty of jobs and employers would have to fight to get these people on to their projects. So yes, I am a mere mortal in terms of gov insight but I work in the industry and have much better view on the situation in the actual work place. If we needed 7145 Construction Managers then that would translate in to 15000 Project Engineers to support them and so on...
> 
> Anyways, these numbers mean nothing...they invite 50 of them anyways and will never even be close to this cap.


And you are saying country doesn't need 7145 Construction managers without knowing next year or more the project pipeline for entire country? 

No Confidence mate, but just doesn't make sense lamenting on things for which we don't have visibility. Ceilings are set for future and not for immediate requirement. There might not be a requirement now, but for future maybe govt has some plans to boost the same, through infra projects. Maybe? Maybe not, time will tell. Half way through if it doesn't materialise, govt will stop inviting and you will see low invitations. 

That's how I think it will work for these occupations at least. After all, it is a ceiling and not a target.


----------



## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

fugitive_4u said:


> No Confidence mate, but just doesn't make sense lamenting on things for which we don't have visibility. Ceilings are set for future and not for immediate requirement. There might not be a requirement now, but for future maybe govt has some plans to boost the same, through infra projects. Maybe? Maybe not, time will tell. Half way through if it doesn't materialise, govt will stop inviting and you will see low invitations.
> 
> That's how I think it will work for these occupations at least. After all, it is a ceiling and not a target.


Yeah sure, again people could get false hopes that these are the numbers to be invited this year.

Should be emphasized this is just a quota, that is more theoretical than what's gonna happen in real life.


----------



## juni_001 (Dec 31, 2019)

I think 'ceiling' and 'target' should be differentiated.

'target' = the point where they want to reach
'ceiling' = the point where they don't want any more

just becuz I can have 4 apples, it doesn't mean i want to have 4 apples. it seems just the maximum capacity they would like to accommodate, not they 'need'. 

Does au need 18k nurses and 7.5k construction managers? maybe they don't. but the ceiling is never about 'wants' and 'needs', it is about what they don't want.


----------



## gsr_2339 (Feb 19, 2020)

Hi guys as we have seen that 2020-21 occupation ceiling has been released and for accounts it has been slashed to 1000 seats and they have mentioned that for accountants these are distributed for other skilled visas as well is that right if so it will be a huge blow for accountants.


----------



## emios88 (Feb 2, 2017)

Neb Ulozny said:


> https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/vis...KN-tuhnw3OliSeP5Inp8YDmZJdarnJiIcCaUV1HM1N1WQ
> 
> Almost 18 thousand spots for nurses? I really doubt they need this many, this is just wishful thinking and generic percentage across the total allowed quota.
> 
> 5200 Motor Mechanics?!?!? This is insane number, hence I really doubt these make any difference to invites unless your profession is the one that got trimmed to very low quota numbers.


They just want people to spend more money on studying nursing and motor mechanic courses.By the time they are done studying they will revise the numbers.


----------



## Silentpoison (Sep 30, 2019)

emios88 said:


> Neb Ulozny said:
> 
> 
> > https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/vis...KN-tuhnw3OliSeP5Inp8YDmZJdarnJiIcCaUV1HM1N1WQ
> ...


Lol , True


----------



## emios88 (Feb 2, 2017)

Silentpoison said:


> Lol , True


now all the accounting people will start studying mechanic courses.Most have already started.By the time they complete they will remove motor mechanic


----------



## Silentpoison (Sep 30, 2019)

emios88 said:


> Silentpoison said:
> 
> 
> > Lol , True
> ...


Can’t say anything. At the least can only feel pity for those who have spent everything and returned to their native lands . As usual - hope for some good thing to happen for everyone


----------



## Gadget Guru (Jun 14, 2020)

Hi,
I can't see ICT support engineer (263212), any comments on it?


----------



## kyanar (Aug 16, 2020)

Gadget Guru said:


> Hi,
> I can't see ICT support engineer (263212), any comments on it?


You won't see it. They show the unit groups in that list, not the occupations. So for yours, the unit group is 2632 ICT Support and Test Professionals - which has no ceiling (does that mean it also has no places? Not sure).

For those talking about Accountants, they have always been subject to a lower ceiling - they are deliberately scaled down. Says so on the Home Affairs website.


----------



## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

Gadget Guru said:


> Hi,
> I can't see ICT support engineer (263212), any comments on it?





kyanar said:


> You won't see it. They show the unit groups in that list, not the occupations. So for yours, the unit group is 2632 ICT Support and Test Professionals - which has no ceiling (does that mean it also has no places? Not sure).
> 
> For those talking about Accountants, they have always been subject to a lower ceiling - they are deliberately scaled down. Says so on the Home Affairs website.


That's because 2632xx is not available under 189.


----------



## sk2019au (Nov 20, 2017)

Slightly off topic post. But since this should be the (currently) most active thread for 189 hopefuls, I'm posting my query here:
According to the FOI/RightToKnow site disclosures and correspondence over the past few weeks, the skillselect dashboard is up and running again OFFICIALLY this time, which earlier many (myself included) thought was an accidental reveal by the dept.
Now I'm trying to access it via the "EOI Data" link on skillselect page but it always seems to be not running.
Has any one has had luck trying to access that mine trove of a link?


----------



## Aussie dreamz (Feb 20, 2020)

sk2019au said:


> Slightly off topic post. But since this should be the (currently) most active thread for 189 hopefuls, I'm posting my query here:
> According to the FOI/RightToKnow site disclosures and correspondence over the past few weeks, the skillselect dashboard is up and running again OFFICIALLY this time, which earlier many (myself included) thought was an accidental reveal by the dept.
> Now I'm trying to access it via the "EOI Data" link on skillselect page but it always seems to be not running.
> Has any one has had luck trying to access that mine trove of a link?


The Skillselect EOI Data website is down for more than a week now. I am sure many of us including myself complained to the department regarding the accuracy of the statistics as EOI's with 50 Points for Accountants (2211) & many other occupations were shown as ''Invited'' for 189 SC at 07/2020. This simply cannot be true because 65 Points is the minimum required to even lodge an EOI. Hopefully, the department has realised these issues and fixing the bugs to give us access to a more accurate data for EOI statistics


----------



## kraft95 (May 16, 2020)

Just talked to a friend who worked as an agent for many years. 

He said, under current situation, if you're an accountant who already got 100 points, or other occupations like 2631 for 95 and 90 points, you still reserves a chance for 189. (Note, it must be that you've ALREADY achieved that point and submitted EOI). Otherwise, if you're still on your way for 90 points, your chance of getting 189 for the next 2 years would be really really low, a 3-5 years plan must be made.


----------



## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

kraft95 said:


> Just talked to a friend who worked as an agent for many years.
> 
> He said, under current situation, if you're an accountant who already got 100 points, or other occupations like 2631 for 95 and 90 points, you still reserves a chance for 189. (Note, it must be that you've ALREADY achieved that point and submitted EOI). Otherwise, if you're still on your way for 90 points, your chance of getting 189 for the next 2 years would be really really low, a 3-5 years plan must be made.


Absolute truth 

Anyone likely to get less then 90 points in non medical related codes, should not spend money in getting assessed 

It’s money down the drain 

Same for those already having EOI to go for plan B 


Cheers


----------



## amib (Jun 12, 2019)

That's really good to hear, some positive news in these times of hopelessness 

I lodged my EOI on 4th of August @ 90 points as an ICT Business Analyst.


----------



## kevaljax (Sep 18, 2018)

amib said:


> That's really good to hear, some positive news in these times of hopelessness
> 
> I lodged my EOI on 4th of August @ 90 points as an ICT Business Analyst.


Are you onshore or offshore? 

Sent from my RMX1971 using Tapatalk


----------



## amib (Jun 12, 2019)

kevaljax said:


> Are you onshore or offshore?
> 
> Sent from my RMX1971 using Tapatalk



I am onshore


----------



## RichardTuan (Jul 17, 2020)

kraft95 said:


> Just talked to a friend who worked as an agent for many years.
> 
> He said, under current situation, if you're an accountant who already got 100 points, or other occupations like 2631 for 95 and 90 points, you still reserves a chance for 189. (Note, it must be that you've ALREADY achieved that point and submitted EOI). Otherwise, if you're still on your way for 90 points, your chance of getting 189 for the next 2 years would be really really low, a 3-5 years plan must be made.


What your friend say is true but no secret. The cut-off is 90 and never get lower. Hopefully when everything becomes normal again, everyone with 90 will be invited. There are about 9000 profiles of 90 and higher, but half of them are accountants, so other occupations do not lose hope, try to score 90 :clap2::clap2:


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## raghu_karam8 (May 3, 2019)

RichardTuan said:


> What your friend say is true but no secret. The cut-off is 90 and never get lower. Hopefully when everything becomes normal again, everyone with 90 will be invited. There are about 9000 profiles of 90 and higher, but half of them are accountants, so other occupations do not lose hope, try to score 90 :clap2::clap2:


"but half of them are accountants" -- hi, is that a guess or something that you know somehow from official data? Thanks


----------



## locomomo (Jul 17, 2020)

*Not a guess*



raghu_karam8 said:


> "but half of them are accountants" -- hi, is that a guess or something that you know somehow from official data? Thanks


It's not a guess. At least 5000 90+ candidates are accountants.


----------



## Aussie dreamz (Feb 20, 2020)

raghu_karam8 said:


> "but half of them are accountants" -- hi, is that a guess or something that you know somehow from official data? Thanks


The information is sourced from official Skillselect data. There are ~13,500 EOI's under all occupations with 90+ points and nearly 7,000 EOI's are under Accountants at 07/2020 (More than 50%). In addition, 20% of overall EOI's in 'Submitted' status are under Accountants

You can take a look at some of the other official Skillselect statistics from this open access link below!

https://api.dynamic.reports.employme..._EOI_Data.html


----------



## ashumA (Jul 9, 2018)

Hi,

Can you please suggest, if one gets 85-90 points in next 4-6 months and then update the EOI are there any chances of getting and invite in next year 2021 (for IT,computer, mechanical applicants)

Thanks
Ashu


----------



## kevaljax (Sep 18, 2018)

ashumA said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For 85, no chances. For 90, probably next year after July 2021 based on next year budget. If you are offshore and have not started preparing PTE, my suggestion is don't go for Australia, go for Canada. Because day by day 189 is going tougher and tougher.

Sent from my RMX1971 using Tapatalk


----------



## AussizMig (Jun 7, 2017)

kevaljax said:


> For 85, no chances. For 90, probably next year after July 2021 based on next year budget. If you are offshore and have not started preparing PTE, my suggestion is don't go for Australia, go for Canada. Because day by day 189 is going tougher and tougher.
> 
> Sent from my RMX1971 using Tapatalk


What about for 85 who has been waiting for the past 13 months??

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## kevaljax (Sep 18, 2018)

AussizMig said:


> What about for 85 who has been waiting for the past 13 months??
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6000 using Tapatalk


They do not Stand chance in 189. Not in this year nor next year. Unfortunately, That is dark truth.

Sent from my RMX1971 using Tapatalk


----------



## Silentpoison (Sep 30, 2019)

AussizMig said:


> kevaljax said:
> 
> 
> > For 85, no chances. For 90, probably next year after July 2021 based on next year budget. If you are offshore and have not started preparing PTE, my suggestion is don't go for Australia, go for Canada. Because day by day 189 is going tougher and tougher.
> ...


Use the skill select tool and see the data. You will come to know where you stand and the future chances by yourself. It’s always - higher the points , higher the chances . All those days where even 75 pointers were invited are gone now.


----------



## Silentpoison (Sep 30, 2019)

ashumA said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can you please suggest, if one gets 85-90 points in next 4-6 months and then update the EOI are there any chances of getting and invite in next year 2021 (for IT,computer, mechanical applicants)
> 
> ...


The 90-95 pointers are creeping day by day and the backlog q is also growing . It’s very hard to predict a invite before even lodging the EOI. Better write IELTS which gives you an advantage of applying to multiple countries. It’s always good to have many eggs in the basket .


----------



## amib (Jun 12, 2019)

Hello,
Does anyone have the data of how many of each occupation were invited from last FY ?

Example

How many accountants were invited in 19/20 for 189
How many ICT BAs invited in 19/20 for 189


etc?


----------



## Aussie dreamz (Feb 20, 2020)

ashumA said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can you please suggest, if one gets 85-90 points in next 4-6 months and then update the EOI are there any chances of getting and invite in next year 2021 (for IT,computer, mechanical applicants)
> 
> ...


We will have more to say about points requirement for 189 SC and the future of Skillselect invitation rounds on 6 October (Expected announcements on budget/migration planning program for 2020-2021)

Alan Tudge (Acting Immigration Minister) has recently given a statement about the expected migration policy settings

1) ''Australia will be particularly attractive for students and high-skilled workers, post-COVID-19 on existing policy settings because we have done better healthwise and economically''

2) ''Migration is a significant contributor not just to GDP but per capita growth. It is making us all wealthier''

3) ''The sponsored skilled migrant stream will be much lower because there will be more Australians looking for work''

Source: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-20/population-decline-coronavirus-could-cost-economy-$117b-a-year/12580028


----------



## amib (Jun 12, 2019)

Aussie dreamz said:


> We will have more to say about points requirement for 189 SC and the future of Skillselect invitation rounds on 6 October (Expected announcements on budget/migration planning program for 2020-2021)
> 
> Alan Tudge (Acting Immigration Minister) has recently given a statement about the expected migration policy settings
> 
> ...



I highly doubt Australia will be as attractive as it was for higher education/PR as it used to be going forward.

The treatment of temporary residents in Australia compared to countries like UK, Canada clearly shows that the Australian government does not give two ****s about temporary residents here except for their money. 

It has all been exposed, I mean think about it, 90 pointers in ICT cannot get PR in Australia anymore? 

Back in 2010-2015 they used to give out PR like candy for everyone who graduated that were sitting at 65 points without even being able to properly speak English.

It used to be an attractive destination back then, it isn't now.

Everything is slowly getting exposed and I hope future international students and skilled migrant workers see straight through the BS


----------



## Aussie dreamz (Feb 20, 2020)

amib said:


> Hello,
> Does anyone have the data of how many of each occupation were invited from last FY ?
> 
> Example
> ...


Please be advised the data includes invitations issued under 189, 491/489 Family Sponsored

Source: anzscosearch

P.S: For a prospective migrant, it is so gratifying to see 189 program outcome in 2018-2019


----------



## emios88 (Feb 2, 2017)

rip


----------



## ankur31 (Aug 20, 2018)

Aussie dreamz said:


> Please be advised the data includes invitations issued under 189, 491/489 Family Sponsored
> 
> Source: anzscosearch
> 
> P.S: For a prospective migrant, it is so gratifying to see 189 program outcome in 2018-2019


Wow! What a drastic decrease this is. From 23k to just over 9k. I don't know what's gonna happen in 2020-21 seeing how shortsighted and indifferent Australia has become due to the Covid-19 pandemic. If we have 9000 invitations (same as last year) in place for current FY, then that would mean giving out an average of 1000 invitations per round starting October 11 round. I hardly see that coming!


----------



## ankur31 (Aug 20, 2018)

amib said:


> I highly doubt Australia will be as attractive as it was for higher education/PR as it used to be going forward.
> 
> The treatment of temporary residents in Australia compared to countries like UK, Canada clearly shows that the Australian government does not give two ****s about temporary residents here except for their money.
> 
> ...


Absolutely true!! Australia has shown absolutely no compassion towards temorary visa holders during the pandemic. Families have been separated, people have lost jobs and students have been put into a fear of uncertain future after investing thousands of dollars into the immigration pipeline. 

If they don't want immigrants and hate them so much, why don't they just close the visa programs! No one's gonna complain if they stop having immigrants anymore. It's giving someone hope, taking their money and then stabbing them in the back is what people are complaining about. They never reveal their true intensions regarding migration numbers, border closures, etc until it's too late. Putting a CEILING VALUE to everything is the biggest scam ever. If there's a ceiling value, then there should also be a FLOOR VALUE. It's just a way to steal money from potential immigrants by giving them hope.


----------



## gsr_2339 (Feb 19, 2020)

ankur31 said:


> amib said:
> 
> 
> > I highly doubt Australia will be as attractive as it was for higher education/PR as it used to be going forward.
> ...


Yes, agree with you mate when you have allocated 12k seats for 189 for the whole year what is the point of allocating a ceiling value of more than that for some occupations. They should plan the ceilings realistically according to the numbers allocated for 189 although it is not mandotory that ceiling values should be met. Also, why they have clubbed new zealanders in 189 queue cant they allocate a separate visa and separate numbers for new zealanders then what is the purpose of 189 points tested visa.


----------



## Silentpoison (Sep 30, 2019)

gsr_2339 said:


> ankur31 said:
> 
> 
> > amib said:
> ...


.It’s all to provoke false hopes to the applicants and the sad part is majority of the crowd falling into the trap


----------



## kraft95 (May 16, 2020)

amib said:


> I highly doubt Australia will be as attractive as it was for higher education/PR as it used to be going forward.
> 
> The treatment of temporary residents in Australia compared to countries like UK, Canada clearly shows that the Australian government does not give two ****s about temporary residents here except for their money.
> 
> ...


Agreed. It is really unfair that getting PR right now is much much harder than 5 years ago.


----------



## David30! (Dec 5, 2019)

Hi Guys, I was just curious to see of anyone is exploring the temporary visa 482 route? Has anyone tried to look for an employer at the moment that might be willing sponsor? From what I have read the DHA is still process 482 visas and if you are deemed an essential worker you should be able to get a travel extension? I had started my PR process nearly a year ago, (quantity surveyor sitting on 80 points) I'm getting desperate now and was hoping there might be some chance of finding a willing employer??


----------



## divyesh.sethi (Aug 9, 2017)

Hi Guys,

My Wife's PTE is about to expire in Jan 2021 who is a secondary applicant in our case.

If i will update her PTE score in JAN 21 , will my EOI's DOE will be changed or will remain same if the points we are claiming remains same.

Please guide!!

Thanks


----------



## GandalfandBilbo (Sep 17, 2019)

ankur31 said:


> Absolutely true!! Australia has shown absolutely no compassion towards temorary visa holders during the pandemic. Families have been separated, people have lost jobs and students have been put into a fear of uncertain future after investing thousands of dollars into the immigration pipeline.
> 
> If they don't want immigrants and hate them so much, why don't they just close the visa programs! No one's gonna complain if they stop having immigrants anymore. It's giving someone hope, taking their money and then stabbing them in the back is what people are complaining about. They never reveal their true intensions regarding migration numbers, border closures, etc until it's too late. Putting a CEILING VALUE to everything is the biggest scam ever. If there's a ceiling value, then there should also be a FLOOR VALUE. It's just a way to steal money from potential immigrants by giving them hope.


I agree, that Australia has shown no compassion towards temporary visa holders

I am not a supporter of the government. But, Blaming the government is not going to help you. When person X comes to Australia as a student the government is not responsible to give them PR, just because X came here as a student does not mean X deserves PR, Nobody has forced you to pay for PR. What situation all of us are currently, nobody could have predicted it if COVID-19 did not exist and government even with its cap of 16K 189 Seats kept inviting people the cut-off would be at 90 points for all occupations. Also, nobody is stealing money from you, it is "your" CHOICE to pour money into PR if throwing money and getting PR was possible every rich person from another country would have a PR and we would'nt stand a chance


----------



## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

divyesh.sethi said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> My Wife's PTE is about to expire in Jan 2021 who is a secondary applicant in our case.
> 
> ...


Since there is no change in overall point score, DOE will not change. You can safely update EOI.


----------



## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

divyesh.sethi said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> My Wife's PTE is about to expire in Jan 2021 who is a secondary applicant in our case.
> 
> ...


You are using the PTEA score for functional English or to claim spouse points ?

Cheers


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

amib said:


> I highly doubt Australia will be as attractive as it was for higher education/PR as it used to be going forward.
> 
> The treatment of temporary residents in Australia compared to countries like UK, Canada clearly shows that the Australian government does not give two ****s about temporary residents here except for their money.
> 
> ...


This is very much true, the only attractive part of immigration here was getting basically citizenship level of rights while collecting generic points from overseas...apart from Canada and NZ I really don't know any other country that does this? 

Meanwhile temp residents are treated as second class towards PR holders as if they are somehow inferior in terms of skills. This is so wrong and I keep saying it here...if you got high skilled job here from overseas you are the top talent. The amount of local bias employers apply here can only be confirmed by numerous PR holders who realised their points mean nothing to employers here and had to find some other job just to survive.

Covid has just exposed how much this country relies on foreign workforce and money influx, 700 thousand students...most of them hoping for a PR after studies, 2 million temp workers, again with same aspirations more or less.


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## OZ9988 (Jul 22, 2019)

divyesh.sethi said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> My Wife's PTE is about to expire in Jan 2021 who is a secondary applicant in our case.
> 
> ...



PTE is valid for 3 years from Australian immigration purpose.
If your spouse attempted in JAN 2018 then sure it will expire. 

PTE update has no impact on EOI. Its ACS assessment which affects the DOE.

Best of Luck !


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## kayan (Dec 10, 2017)

OZ9988 said:


> PTE is valid for 3 years from Australian immigration purpose.
> If your spouse attempted in JAN 2018 then sure it will expire.
> 
> PTE update has no impact on EOI. Its ACS assessment which affects the DOE.
> ...



Why would ACS re-assessment change the DOE? It might not change the point and just the reference number would change. Are you sure?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dybydx (Jul 23, 2019)

Again, many people here still missing some points.

DHA doesn't promise any international students or PY, NAATI takers to give them a PR after they cleared of these.

Also, these policies can be changed according to the current situation at that time, don't your immigration/education agent tell you that before you came here?

That's why I don't take PY, NAATI because it's expensive and useless and does not improve my employable in my area.

Eventually, with Student Visa, they expect students to finish their study here and go back home. While the 485, they already told in their website that they expect applicants to obtain "short-term" experience here before come home.

For me, as I am a bad English low pointers who currently work in my profession here, but I already accepted the truth that I will need to go back home.

At the first stage, I'm bored of overseas (Living in Aus for 4 years) so I will work in my country for a year and then will go somewhere else but not Australia anymore. I'm a skilled person and I can go anywhere without only limitation to only Australia.

Australia values the ones who has superior scam English with their superior Uber driving skills, while do not value one who has bad English but currently work as a full-stack developer in Australia.


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## Marsickk (Oct 5, 2019)

dybydx said:


> Australia values the ones who has superior scam English with their superior Uber driving skills, while do not value one who has bad English but currently work as a full-stack developer in Australia.


Lol, you made my day  it's so true


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## RichardTuan (Jul 17, 2020)

dybydx said:


> For me, as I am a bad English low pointers who currently work in my profession here, but I already accepted the truth that I will need to go back home.


I wish I can have your attitude. But dont give up just yet, give those useless PY, NAATI a chance.:fingerscrossed::fingerscrossed:


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## divyesh.sethi (Aug 9, 2017)

NB said:


> You are using the PTEA score for functional English or to claim spouse points ?
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers


Hello NB,

I am claiming spouse's 10 points including Skill assessment and PTE A both.. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## divyesh.sethi (Aug 9, 2017)

kayan said:


> Why would ACS re-assessment change the DOE? It might not change the point and just the reference number would change. Are you sure?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same is my concern, if points are not changing ,does it affect DOE if updation is done for PTE A score


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## kayan (Dec 10, 2017)

divyesh.sethi said:


> Same is my concern, if points are not changing ,does it affect DOE if updation is done for PTE A score



It won't


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

dybydx said:


> Again, many people here still missing some points.
> 
> For me, as I am a bad English low pointers who currently work in my profession here, but I already accepted the truth that I will need to go back home.
> 
> ...


Sad part is I have many people in my office who got PR few years back with very bad English level, and still haven't improved a little bit but who cares now?

But that PR paperwork means they are above you and you are a second class, not even that, you are nobody in terms of any rights in here. 

Unless you can have your employer sponsor you, might be good time to look for alternative options where you would be actually treated as skilled migration.


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## Silentpoison (Sep 30, 2019)

dybydx said:


> Australia values the ones who has superior scam English with their superior Uber driving skills, while do not value one who has bad English but currently work as a full-stack developer in Australia.


Lol 😂


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## amib (Jun 12, 2019)

Neb Ulozny said:


> Sad part is I have many people in my office who got PR few years back with very bad English level, and still haven't improved a little bit but who cares now?
> 
> But that PR paperwork means they are above you and you are a second class, not even that, you are nobody in terms of any rights in here.
> 
> Unless you can have your employer sponsor you, might be good time to look for alternative options where you would be actually treated as skilled migration.


So true
I know people who got their PR 10 years ago with graduate diplomas and they can't even put a sentence together in English, it's god awful. They drive Ubers and spend their money in brothels. 

Its all about the money for the AU gov - look at how they are bringing in 300 Chinese students to SA next month because they are bringing in the money, but a citizen in Victoria can't cross the border to go to SA even if their family members are dying. It's a scam


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## ankur31 (Aug 20, 2018)

GandalfandBilbo said:


> I agree, that Australia has shown no compassion towards temporary visa holders
> 
> I am not a supporter of the government. But, Blaming the government is not going to help you. When person X comes to Australia as a student the government is not responsible to give them PR, just because X came here as a student does not mean X deserves PR, Nobody has forced you to pay for PR. What situation all of us are currently, nobody could have predicted it if COVID-19 did not exist and government even with its cap of 16K 189 Seats kept inviting people the cut-off would be at 90 points for all occupations. Also, nobody is stealing money from you, it is "your" CHOICE to pour money into PR if throwing money and getting PR was possible every rich person from another country would have a PR and we would'nt stand a chance


I acknowledge the point you made but I beg to differ. No one has a problem if Australia says it doesn't want any immigrants. All potential immigrants will move somewhere else. The problem lies in the fact that there is no clear policy. 
If tomorrow they declare they are only gonna invite 1000 189 EOIs next year, I would happily withdraw and move on with life. The fact is that they say something else and do something else which frustrates the people who have put so much of time and energy in this process. 
Blaming the govt won't help me. But last time I checked, Australia was a democratic country where you can ask questions. If you stop questioning the system, you become a puppet of the system itself. There's no harm in critisicing the system and asking questions. I know that no govt representative is gonna check expatforum and answer my queries but you always need a platform to pour out the questions, complaints and curiosities. 
It's been often mentioned that 1st-gen immigrants end up becoming second class citizens. Most immigrants that I have seen (especially from my home country India) end up bowing down to the system as soon as they land on a foreign land. You still have rights and can still ask questions even though you might be a temporary immigrant. People tend to become second class citizens themselves even before the system makes them second class.


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## Alenko (Jul 14, 2020)

Although this thread is specifically 189 only, why are people discounting 190 which has lower score threshold. Is this visa that bad? Yes in 189 you'd need at least 95 points for a ray of hope, but in 190, even 80's has a chance.

But of course, I know States right now are closed. I'm just saying that 189 is not the only choice but it seems the discussion here is 189 or look for another country. Is there something about 190 that is really really bad that it shouldn't be considered a PR path?


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## kayan (Dec 10, 2017)

Alenko said:


> Although this thread is specifically 189 only, why are people discounting 190 which has lower score threshold. Is this visa that bad? Yes in 189 you'd need at least 95 points for a ray of hope, but in 190, even 80's has a chance.
> 
> But of course, I know States right now are closed. I'm just saying that 189 is not the only choice but it seems the discussion here is 189 or look for another country. Is there something about 190 that is really really bad that it shouldn't be considered a PR path?



You simply can't plan based on 190. You apply for it, rest is up to them whether you get selected or not. That's the thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## polar.bear (Apr 23, 2020)

Alenko said:


> Although this thread is specifically 189 only, why are people discounting 190 which has lower score threshold. Is this visa that bad? Yes in 189 you'd need at least 95 points for a ray of hope, but in 190, even 80's has a chance.
> 
> But of course, I know States right now are closed. I'm just saying that 189 is not the only choice but it seems the discussion here is 189 or look for another country. Is there something about 190 that is really really bad that it shouldn't be considered a PR path?


I guess with 190, States are very unpredictable. Hence, it is surrounded with more uncertainty compared to 189 which can be more frustrating. 
With 189, seems to be simple (at least past few years) where you got the points, you got the invitation.
With 190, one with 90points can wait forever where another with 65points can get invited in short time. People generally prefer something that they can control I would say


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## RichardTuan (Jul 17, 2020)

Alenko said:


> Although this thread is specifically 189 only, why are people discounting 190 which has lower score threshold. Is this visa that bad? Yes in 189 you'd need at least 95 points for a ray of hope, but in 190, even 80's has a chance.
> 
> But of course, I know States right now are closed. I'm just saying that 189 is not the only choice but it seems the discussion here is 189 or look for another country. Is there something about 190 that is really really bad that it shouldn't be considered a PR path?


190 is several times more unpredictable than 189. :juggle::juggle::juggle:


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## Alenko (Jul 14, 2020)

On current topic. It's really unfortunate that AU has no preferential PR path for people who are already legally working onshore. Correct me if I'm wrong but as I see it, they still need to go through the same GSM application with point tested system and if they fail the competition they would need to go home? They can't extend their working rights and eventually be automatically eligible for naturalization?

I am not AU onshore but I can sympathize for people in this situation and I think this system is kind of flawed. Most countries allow working professionals to stay indefinitely as long as they have employers and eventually get eligible for naturalization but AU seems different on this?


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## polar.bear (Apr 23, 2020)

Alenko said:


> On current topic. It's really unfortunate that AU has no preferential PR path for people who are already legally working onshore. Correct me if I'm wrong but as I see it, they still need to go through the same GSM application with point tested system and if they fail the competition they would need to go home? They can't extend their working rights and eventually be automatically eligible for naturalization?
> 
> I am not AU onshore but I can sympathize for people in this situation and I think this system is kind of flawed. Most countries allow working professionals to stay indefinitely as long as they have employers and eventually get eligible for naturalization but AU seems different on this?


I might be wrong as well, but from what I know, there is another visa subclass of 186 where employer can nominate those that they already employed as well as the other subclass of 482 (Medium Term).
Both visa seems to rely much on the employers to apply for the applicants.


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## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

ankur31 said:


> If tomorrow they declare they are only gonna invite 1000 189 EOIs next year, I would happily withdraw and move on with life. The fact is that they say something else and do something else which frustrates the people who have put so much of time and energy in this process.


Not sure what do you mean by above, as DHA does not set a target. If you mean by Occupational ceiling, then it is a ceiling as it says and not a target.


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## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

Alenko said:


> On current topic. It's really unfortunate that AU has no preferential PR path for people who are already legally working onshore. Correct me if I'm wrong but as I see it, they still need to go through the same GSM application with point tested system and if they fail the competition they would need to go home? They can't extend their working rights and eventually be automatically eligible for naturalization?
> 
> I am not AU onshore but I can sympathize for people in this situation and I think this system is kind of flawed. Most countries allow working professionals to stay indefinitely as long as they have employers and eventually get eligible for naturalization but AU seems different on this?


Just to clarify, there is a preferential Citizenship path for Onshore folks. They need to be on PR just for an year after having completed 3 years on their substantive visa in Australia, to be eligible for citizenship. Offshore PR holders need to complete 4 years. But yes, getting a PR itself has become a challenge in these times.

Also, no major country (at least USA, UK that I know of) provides path to citizenship with out permanent residency (GreenCard in USA, ILR in the UK is mandatory for becoming a citizen), which is the same case in AU.


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## ankur31 (Aug 20, 2018)

fugitive_4u said:


> Not sure what do you mean by above, as DHA does not set a target. If you mean by Occupational ceiling, then it is a ceiling as it says and not a target.


That's exactly what I mean! They don't set a target i.e. don't give us a fixed number. Ceilings give no prepective at all since they never reach ceilings these days. You can never guess if a certain occupation will reach 10% of the celing value or 50%. So ceilings are useless when invites are limited.

I know it's difficult to set a fixed number even for the govt. But they have to do it every year. Giving a range shouldn't be difficult. For example, giving a range like 5000-15000. That would mean they will invite at lease 5000 and not more than 15000. Since the EOI data is public, a potential immigrant would be easily able to make informed decisions. This would greatly help people who would otherwise take PTEs, get skills assessment, PCCs in well advance and then end up waiting for years in uncertainity. 
Taking exams and getting assessed is a long and frustrating process. My wife got 79+ in PTE in her 4th attempt. In her first three attempts, she would score 80+ in three sections but get exactly 78 in one section! It happneded three times in a row. Can you imagine the stress? We changed the center and she was finally able to get 82+ in all sections. Getting a PR is not limited to just uploading your passport and waiting for 4 months. There are like 10 different things you need to do as a part of the process.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

ankur31 said:


> That's exactly what I mean! They don't set a target i.e. don't give us a fixed number. Ceilings give no prepective at all since they never reach ceilings these days. You can never guess if a certain occupation will reach 10% of the celing value or 50%. So ceilings are useless when invites are limited.
> 
> I know it's difficult to set a fixed number even for the govt. But they have to do it every year. Giving a range shouldn't be difficult. For example, giving a range like 5000-15000. That would mean they will invite at lease 5000 and not more than 15000. Since the EOI data is public, a potential immigrant would be easily able to make informed decisions. This would greatly help people who would otherwise take PTEs, get skills assessment, PCCs in well advance and then end up waiting for years in uncertainity.
> Taking exams and getting assessed is a long and frustrating process. My wife got 79+ in PTE in her 4th attempt. In her first three attempts, she would score 80+ in three sections but get exactly 78 in one section! It happneded three times in a row. Can you imagine the stress? We changed the center and she was finally able to get 82+ in all sections. Getting a PR is not limited to just uploading your passport and waiting for 4 months. There are like 10 different things you need to do as a part of the process.


Why will DHA kill the golden egg laying goose
They want to keep dangling the carrot for the prospective students and other applicants 
It’s a money spinning venture for all those connected with Immigration 

Cheers


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## Architect Joe (Aug 26, 2019)

ankur31 said:


> fugitive_4u said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure what do you mean by above, as DHA does not set a target. If you mean by Occupational ceiling, then it is a ceiling as it says and not a target.
> ...


Know the feeling. Seven attempts and in all the 6 attempts Average was minimum 84 with one going 77 or 78 every time. And finally when succeeded in PTE, came Corona.


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## raghu_karam8 (May 3, 2019)

Architect Joe said:


> Know the feeling. Seven attempts and in all the 6 attempts Average was minimum 84 with one going 77 or 78 every time. And finally when succeeded in PTE, came Corona.



Same here man! In my case, I wasn't able to crack Speaking alone in 5 attempts over a span of 1 year. Rest all were always above 85. Changed the center, and got a bloody 89 in speaking.. and then corona came..


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

Alenko said:


> On current topic. It's really unfortunate that AU has no preferential PR path for people who are already legally working onshore. Correct me if I'm wrong but as I see it, they still need to go through the same GSM application with point tested system and if they fail the competition they would need to go home? They can't extend their working rights and eventually be automatically eligible for naturalization?
> 
> I am not AU onshore but I can sympathize for people in this situation and I think this system is kind of flawed. Most countries allow working professionals to stay indefinitely as long as they have employers and eventually get eligible for naturalization but AU seems different on this?


That's how it is here, no matter how many years you've spent in the country...if the employer doesn't sponsor you directly for PR (which is again very preferential and biased towards big companies) you go to the same queue as everyone else, onshore or offshore. 

You get additional points for being in the country but that is very misleading as they actually deduct your overseas experience at the same time once you cross 10 yrs of total experience. So actually, you get nothing for working in the country which is something I never heard of in other countries. And the more experienced you are, the more points you loose by working in Australia...how good is that?


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

fugitive_4u said:


> Just to clarify, there is a preferential Citizenship path for Onshore folks. They need to be on PR just for an year after having completed 3 years on their substantive visa in Australia, to be eligible for citizenship. Offshore PR holders need to complete 4 years. But yes, getting a PR itself has become a challenge in these times.
> 
> Also, no major country (at least USA, UK that I know of) provides path to citizenship with out permanent residency (GreenCard in USA, ILR in the UK is mandatory for becoming a citizen), which is the same case in AU.


That is citizenship, who cares about that if you get in the country on a PR? You have almost 99% of full citizenship rights vs someone on a temp visa who has to pay even for accessing public school.

OP asked for a preferential path towards PR, that is only possible via employer sponsorship and just adds another layer of inequality towards smaller employers and allows for preferential selection that is left to companies to decide on. No major country allows one to get PR without stepping their foot in the country either so...


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## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

Neb Ulozny said:


> That is citizenship, who cares about that if you get in the country on a PR? You have almost 99% of full citizenship rights vs someone on a temp visa who has to pay even for accessing public school.
> 
> OP asked for a preferential path towards PR, that is only possible via employer sponsorship and just adds another layer of inequality towards smaller employers and allows for preferential selection that is left to companies to decide on. No major country allows one to get PR without stepping their foot in the country either so...


Sorry mate, read OP's post again. The post indeed was about automatic naturalisation without having a PR to which I responded. Highlighted below.



Alenko said:


> On current topic. It's really unfortunate that AU has no preferential PR path for people who are already legally working onshore. Correct me if I'm wrong but as I see it, *they still need to go through the same GSM application with point tested system and if they fail the competition they would need to go home? They can't extend their working rights and eventually be automatically eligible for naturalization?*
> 
> I am not AU onshore but I can sympathize for people in this situation and I think this system is kind of flawed. *Most countries allow working professionals to stay indefinitely as long as they have employers and eventually get eligible for naturalization but AU seems different on this?*


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

fugitive_4u said:


> Sorry mate, read OP's post again. The post indeed was about automatic naturalisation without having a PR to which I responded. Highlighted below.


It's bit confusing though...first sentence is about how people on shore don't have preferential PR path which is true. You get few points for being on shore and that's it...or like in my case you get deducted skills points if you have more than 10 yrs experience which is bizarre.

Citizenship counts number of years spent in the country, be it on temp visa or PR. Which in a sense is equal to other countries, as you wouldn't be able to be on PR without spending some time on temp visa there in any case.


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## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

ankur31 said:


> That's exactly what I mean! They don't set a target i.e. don't give us a fixed number. Ceilings give no prepective at all since they never reach ceilings these days. You can never guess if a certain occupation will reach 10% of the celing value or 50%. So ceilings are useless when invites are limited.


Yes, that is understood, but I was asking about this statement of yours



> _The fact is that they say something else and do something else which frustrates the people who have put so much of time and energy in this process._


Govt, doesn't say something and do something in terms of ceilings. Secondly, there is an industry around Immigration as NB put it and it is business all around.


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## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

Neb Ulozny said:


> It's bit confusing though...first sentence is about how people on shore don't have preferential PR path which is true. You get few points for being on shore and that's it...or like in my case you get deducted skills points if you have more than 10 yrs experience which is bizarre.


Well, Yes and No. I've known onshore employees negotiating 186 with their employers on more than one occasion. Can anyone claim to have done this from offshore? That is a direct ticket in itself. 

Also the additional points and advantage of having Oz degree.


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## GandalfandBilbo (Sep 17, 2019)

ankur31 said:


> I acknowledge the point you made but I beg to differ. No one has a problem if Australia says it doesn't want any immigrants. All potential immigrants will move somewhere else. The problem lies in the fact that there is no clear policy.
> If tomorrow they declare they are only gonna invite 1000 189 EOIs next year, I would happily withdraw and move on with life. The fact is that they say something else and do something else which frustrates the people who have put so much of time and energy in this process.
> Blaming the govt won't help me. But last time I checked, Australia was a democratic country where you can ask questions. If you stop questioning the system, you become a puppet of the system itself. There's no harm in critisicing the system and asking questions. I know that no govt representative is gonna check expatforum and answer my queries but you always need a platform to pour out the questions, complaints and curiosities.
> It's been often mentioned that 1st-gen immigrants end up becoming second class citizens. Most immigrants that I have seen (especially from my home country India) end up bowing down to the system as soon as they land on a foreign land. You still have rights and can still ask questions even though you might be a temporary immigrant. People tend to become second class citizens themselves even before the system makes them second class.


Yes, the government is not transparent because they themselves have no idea, they think that the current system is fair when it is not like people have mentioned here that people working onshore have limited chance of PR, is absolutely true, people talk about 482 visas and 186 visas but both of them have conditions of having 3 years of work exp under your belt, which is impossible for a graduate student who has finished masters/bachelors.

Agreed Australia is a democratic country but as a PR holder and temp worker you don't get a say in what government is elected as you *cannot* vote, which essentially means you have to make do with whatever government is elected, also as a temp worker good luck changing a mind of a person who can vote.


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

fugitive_4u said:


> Well, Yes and No. I've known onshore employees negotiating 186 with their employers on more than one occasion. Can anyone claim to have done this from offshore? That is a direct ticket in itself.
> 
> Also the additional points and advantage of having Oz degree.


Yeah 186 is a direct ticket, to select few that is...I mean I work in a big multinational company that sponsors employees and also have a friend who works in a smaller one that simply cannot sponsor him. Why am I any more skilled than he is? 186 is again matter of being lucky enough as opposed to be highly skilled and of economical value to the country.

Even that said, my company sponsored a girl who could barely pass the level of English test required for 186 visa then we realised she is in relationship with the managing director. Anyways, as soon as she got it she literally resigned the next week and went to a government job. Then the company stopped sponsoring for half a year as they realised people will leave. It makes no sense for them to do it.

I've met people who got direct sponsorships after probation period as their managers liked them...some other people may be equally or more hard working and can't get it because it's management who decides about their faith. They put unrealistic demands and targets to employees like being top performer or any similar stellar end of the year review goals to be eligible for sponsorships, people work crazy long hours and put much more effort than others simply because they are blackmailed by the PR sponsorship.


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## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

Neb Ulozny said:


> Yeah 186 is a direct ticket, to select few that is...I mean I work in a big multinational company that sponsors employees and also have a friend who works in a smaller one that simply cannot sponsor him. Why am I any more skilled than he is? 186 is again matter of being lucky enough as opposed to be highly skilled and of economical value to the country.


It is a matter of negotiation. One aspirant I know of is negotiating currently with an option to pay full agent fees and also a promise (in principle) to stick on for at least 3 years with the company. It is a win-win for the company in his case.



Neb Ulozny said:


> Even that said, my company sponsored a girl who could barely pass the level of English test required for 186 visa then we realised she is in relationship with the managing director. Anyways, as soon as she got it she literally resigned the next week and went to a government job. Then the company stopped sponsoring for half a year as they realised people will leave. It makes no sense for them to do it.
> 
> I've met people who got direct sponsorships after probation period as their managers liked them...some other people may be equally or more hard working and can't get it because it's management who decides about their faith. They put unrealistic demands and targets to employees like being top performer or any similar stellar end of the year review goals to be eligible for sponsorships, people work crazy long hours and put much more effort than others simply because they are blackmailed by the PR sponsorship.


You can't blame DHA for this, can you


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

fugitive_4u said:


> It is a matter of negotiation. One aspirant I know of is negotiating currently with an option to pay full agent fees and also a promise (in principle) to stick on for at least 3 years with the company. It is a win-win for the company in his case.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't blame DHA for this, can you


Again, it's matter of luck, every company has a different people and policies. I believe this option was there to enable companies to retain very valuable people, but now since regular PR route from TSS is almost impossible it has become the only option for many. 

My company told me frankly...no matter if I pay everything or not they want to use my 4 yrs visa to the maximum to get the value back and that was it. What negotiations, they have their rules now since many people tricked them and went away the next day. 

I don't blame DHA for this option, but for lack of any other options other than going back in to the same queue with pathetic amount of points added for the time spent working here. Australian work exp should get 50 pts in my opinion, the same value the local employers seem to give it when you apply for work. Anyone applying for work here can confirm this, it's the first thing they ask and look for.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Neb Ulozny said:


> Again, it's matter of luck, every company has a different people and policies. I believe this option was there to enable companies to retain very valuable people, but now since regular PR route from TSS is almost impossible it has become the only option for many.
> 
> My company told me frankly...no matter if I pay everything or not they want to use my 4 yrs visa to the maximum to get the value back and that was it. What negotiations, they have their rules now since many people tricked them and went away the next day.
> 
> I don't blame DHA for this option, but for lack of any other options other than going back in to the same queue with pathetic amount of points added for the time spent working here. Australian work exp should get 50 pts in my opinion, the same value the local employers seem to give it when you apply for work. Anyone applying for work here can confirm this, it's the first thing they ask and look for.


Once you give 50 points for Australia experience, you are practically shutting out all those without it
It would be easier to make 189 eligible only for those with 1 year of local experience 

I am of the personal opinion that 189 should be scrapped altogether and the quota given to employer sponsored and state sponsorship 
Let the state and employers decide which skills are in shortage as they are the best judge 
If they continue with the 189, they are only ensuring that uber has no shortage of drivers and supermarkets have sufficient workers to stock shelves

Cheers


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## Alenko (Jul 14, 2020)

fugitive_4u said:


> Just to clarify, there is a preferential Citizenship path for Onshore folks. They need to be on PR just for an year after having completed 3 years on their substantive visa in Australia, to be eligible for citizenship. Offshore PR holders need to complete 4 years. But yes, getting a PR itself has become a challenge in these times.
> 
> Also, no major country (at least USA, UK that I know of) provides path to citizenship with out permanent residency (GreenCard in USA, ILR in the UK is mandatory for becoming a citizen), which is the same case in AU.


Japan and Ireland have straight path to citizenship without permanent residency requirement. I happen to be currently living in Japan at the moment and about to move in Ireland (my plan B while waiting for AU), the catch here in Japan is that you have to know the language pretty well to live comfortably. A lot of countries in EU have the same policy I think. But of course, I don't know what you exactly mean by "major countries".


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## Alenko (Jul 14, 2020)

fugitive_4u said:


> Just to clarify, there is a preferential Citizenship path for Onshore folks. They need to be on PR just for an year after having completed 3 years on their substantive visa in Australia, to be eligible for citizenship. Offshore PR holders need to complete 4 years. But yes, getting a PR itself has become a challenge in these times.
> 
> Also, no major country (at least USA, UK that I know of) provides path to citizenship with out permanent residency (GreenCard in USA, ILR in the UK is mandatory for becoming a citizen), which is the same case in AU.


Japan and Ireland have straight path to citizenship without permanent residency requirement. I happen to be currently living in Japan and about to move in Ireland (my plan B while waiting for AU), the catch here in Japan is that you have to know the language pretty well to live comfortably. A lot of countries in EU have the same policy I think. But of course, I don't know what you exactly mean by "major countries".


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## RichardTuan (Jul 17, 2020)

NB said:


> I am of the personal opinion that 189 should be scrapped altogether and the quota given to employer sponsored and state sponsorship
> Let the state and employers decide which skills are in shortage as they are the best judge
> 
> Cheers


If it's just as simple as this, then no need to go to regional, to crack PTE 79, CCL, PY, no need to even go to university for points. Many will be unhappy


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## Alenko (Jul 14, 2020)

Alenko said:


> On current topic. It's really unfortunate that AU has no preferential PR path for people who are already legally working onshore. Correct me if I'm wrong but as I see it, they still need to go through the same GSM application with point tested system and if they fail the competition they would need to go home? They can't extend their working rights and eventually be automatically eligible for naturalization?
> 
> I am not AU onshore but I can sympathize for people in this situation and I think this system is kind of flawed. Most countries allow working professionals to stay indefinitely as long as they have employers and eventually get eligible for naturalization but AU seems different on this?


For clarification, I did mean PR at first because that is usually the first step, and usually the easier one. Some countries let you choose to have PR or direct citizenship under their policy. Here in Japan where I live, PR eligibility is after 10 years while naturalization can be as short as 5 years only, 3 years for foreign spouses of a Japanese national.


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## Alenko (Jul 14, 2020)

Alenko said:


> On current topic. It's really unfortunate that AU has no preferential PR path for people who are already legally working onshore. Correct me if I'm wrong but as I see it, they still need to go through the same GSM application with point tested system and if they fail the competition they would need to go home? They can't extend their working rights and eventually be automatically eligible for naturalization?
> 
> I am not AU onshore but I can sympathize for people in this situation and I think this system is kind of flawed. Most countries allow working professionals to stay indefinitely as long as they have employers and eventually get eligible for naturalization but AU seems different on this?


For clarification, I did mean PR at first because that is usually the first step, and usually the easier one. Some countries let you choose to have PR or direct citizenship under their policy. I just mentioned naturalization as final end goal, because we are talking about immigration.

Here in Japan where I live, PR eligibility is after 10 years while naturalization can be as short as 5 years only, 3 years for foreign spouses of a Japanese national.


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## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

Alenko said:


> Japan and Ireland have straight path to citizenship without permanent residency requirement. I happen to be currently living in Japan and about to move in Ireland (my plan B while waiting for AU), the catch here in Japan is that you have to know the language pretty well to live comfortably. A lot of countries in EU have the same policy I think. But of course, I don't know what you exactly mean by "major countries".


Thats good to know and seem like an exception. Countries like USA, Canada, UK, AU and NZ (which are most sought after for migration) obviously have a pre-condition of PR prior to being naturalised.


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

fugitive_4u said:


> Thats good to know and seem like an exception. Countries like USA, Canada, UK, AU and NZ (which are most sought after for migration) obviously have a pre-condition of PR prior to being naturalised.


PR condition is fine, I personally wouldn't care if it takes 10 yrs to get citizenship, as it takes in some EU countries as long as I have PR and not being under constant pressure of felling like a temporary expendable work drone. Temp visa is a burden on anyone, especially people with families...and Australia made it one step further by reducing the healthcare and public schooling access. In many countries getting a job there is your first step towards immigration, and the others come along without too much hassle...well it's completely different here and it's the other way around.

Unfortunately, many people were coming in to countries like Canada to collect passports and return to places like Dubai where they would work as Canadian citizens without any real connections with Canada. I myself had a manager who did this and it was just hilarious how proud he was of his Canadian passport although he could barely speak English and has absolutely zero knowledge about Canada.


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## Aussie dreamz (Feb 20, 2020)

Australian government received backlash for their initial comments regarding temporary residents to ''_go back home if you cannot support yourself_''. They have since rectified and a range of government assistance is available to temporary and provisional visa holders impacted by coronavirus such as early super release, moratorium on evictions for six months from 29 March 2020 for residential/commercial tenants, emergency relief fund by states/territory governments for international students experiencing financial hardship, a small one-off emergency relief payment by Red Cross Society to support temporary visa holders who are struggling to make ends meet (no income/very limited income, no savings/very limited savings, no family support)

Now, I acknowledge that emergency relief payments are not income support and do not match the same supplements that are provided for Australian citizens/PR holders. They are very limited and we know it will not meet all the needs that we have. Nonetheless, it covers all the basic/immediate needs (food, medicine or shelter) for temporary residents who are facing genuine difficulties during these times

When Liberal government came into power in March 2019, they made it extremely clear that annual permanent migration will be reduced from 190,000 to 160,000 for 4 years, 189 will be slashed in order to build infrastructure in major cities to match the growing population, regional visas will be prioritised going forward to evenly distribute population growth in regional Australia 

A major misconception among prospective migrants is that they think 16,652 (allocations for 189 in 2019-2020) is a cap for the number of invitations that will be issued in a respective FY. However, the annual migration planning level reflects the number of visas that will be ''_*Granted*_'' for primary and secondary(family members) applicants. In case of 189, it also includes NZ applicants. More than 12,500 visas were granted under 189 in 2019-2020 (75% of the allocated places) which is an ideal proportion

The government has acknowledged on multiple occasion even during COVID crisis that 160,000 – 210,000 is an ideal cap for annual permanent migration. If you look at the previous migration program outcomes, the department has always achieved more than 80% of their allocated annual planning levels 

As far as invitations are concerned, it clearly says on Skillselect website that ''_*Invitation numbers in each round may vary depending on the number of applications being processed by the Department*_''. This explains as to why they cannot give us a definite target on the number of invitations that will be issued in future rounds. With respect to COVID, ''_*The Government is closely monitoring migration and visa settings to ensure they are consistent with public health measures, are flexible and do not displace job opportunities for Australians, so that Australia can effectively respond to the immediate and subsequent impacts of COVID-19. As such, targeted invitation rounds occurred in May, June and July 2020*_''. 

Spending money on skills/language assessments is an investment. As with all investments, no one can guarantee if you will benefit or lose. Migration is not a straightforward process as it used to be many years ago. People intending to permanently migrate to a new country should know these facts and keep themselves updated regarding changes in migration policy settings as they are frequently fine-tuned to align with their strategies

Now, if you do not understand/too busy to keep up with the updates, you should consult registered migration agents. However, you will also need to do your own research. I have seen many well known Australian registered MARA agents who have used recent updates on occupation ceilings to lure as many people as they can particularly targeting certain trade occupations with their fallacious marketing strategies. Some agents have gone as far as to claim that all you need is 65 points to lodge your EOI, you will only have to wait some time for ITA and they will help you with skills assessment/lodging EOI process. Some people (especially offshore) who are not aware of the current invitation trends will fall for this trap because they think migration agents are an authority who will genuinely look after their interests 

Anyways as the saying itself goes ‘there is light at the end of tunnel’. We will gain more clarity on new occupation lists, annual migration planning levels and the future of 189 on 6 October which will help us to make more informed decisions about our future

P.S: To all 189 aspirants and other expat members, please keep 189 thread alive with these lively discussions and your valuable insights on migration process. It makes me feel that I am not alone in this journey and we are all in this together


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## fugitive_4u (Nov 7, 2016)

Aussie dreamz said:


> Australian government received backlash for their initial comments regarding temporary residents to ''_go back home if you cannot support yourself_''. They have since rectified and a range of government assistance is available to temporary and provisional visa holders impacted by coronavirus such as early super release, moratorium on evictions for six months from 29 March 2020 for residential/commercial tenants, emergency relief fund by states/territory governments for international students experiencing financial hardship, a small one-off emergency relief payment by Red Cross Society to support temporary visa holders who are struggling to make ends meet (no income/very limited income, no savings/very limited savings, no family support)
> 
> Now, I acknowledge that emergency relief payments are not income support and do not match the same supplements that are provided for Australian citizens/PR holders. They are very limited and we know it will not meet all the needs that we have. Nonetheless, it covers all the basic/immediate needs (food, medicine or shelter) for temporary residents who are facing genuine difficulties during these times
> 
> ...


Thanks..!!

That is a well thought out post, laying out facts as it is, and coming from an aspirant..!

All the best..!


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## Aussie dreamz (Feb 20, 2020)

Meanwhile, the department has released official Skillselect results for August 2020!
https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/working-in-australia/skillselect/invitation-rounds

200 invitations were issued for targeted occupations only (110 for 189 SC; 90 for 491 FS)
Health & Welfare Services Manager (<20), Medical Laboratory Scientist (<20), General Practitioners and Resident Medical Officers (24), other Medical Practitioners (29), Registered Nurse (154)


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## RichardTuan (Jul 17, 2020)

Aussie dreamz said:


> Meanwhile, the department has released official Skillselect results for August 2020!
> https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/working-in-australia/skillselect/invitation-rounds
> 
> 200 invitations were issued for targeted occupations only (110 for 189 SC; 90 for 491 FS)
> Health & Welfare Services Manager (<20), Medical Laboratory Scientist (<20), General Practitioners and Resident Medical Officers (24), other Medical Practitioners (29), Registered Nurse (154)


Let them have all the nurses in the world in the next 12 months


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## kevaljax (Sep 18, 2018)

RichardTuan said:


> Let them have all the nurses in the world in the next 12 months


They want 1 Nurse for every covid-19 patient. Tough they have very less cases as compared to others. 

Current Australian government is not visionary. Forget about getting PR, now I am worried that whether I shall have better growth in the country. Because I don't see that current policy is beneficial for Australia economy.

Sent from my RMX1971 using Tapatalk


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

kevaljax said:


> They want 1 Nurse for every covid-19 patient. Tough they have very less cases as compared to others.
> 
> Current Australian government is not visionary. Forget about getting PR, now I am worried that whether I shall have better growth in the country. Because I don't see that current policy is beneficial for Australia economy.
> 
> Sent from my RMX1971 using Tapatalk


If you don’t believe in the Australian growth story, then no sense in getting a PR even if you have the chance of getting one
You can look for greener pastures

Cheers


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

kevaljax said:


> They want 1 Nurse for every covid-19 patient. Tough they have very less cases as compared to others.
> 
> Current Australian government is not visionary. Forget about getting PR, now I am worried that whether I shall have better growth in the country. Because I don't see that current policy is beneficial for Australia economy.
> 
> Sent from my RMX1971 using Tapatalk


You are not realising that the after effects of the covid on health of those who contracted it will be felt for a long time
Aged care will be reformed in a big way and will require several times more nurses then those that are employed at each centre now

Nurses especially those in aged care are in a for a bonanza in Australia 

Cheers


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## kevaljax (Sep 18, 2018)

NB said:


> If you don’t believe in the Australian growth story, then no sense in getting a PR even if you are eligible
> 
> You can look for greener pastures
> 
> ...


Sorry NB, but I hv not asked ur consultancy on this. I hv just shared my view on this.

I hv already started exploring other options. 

All i want that, if anyone from offshore have just started on preparing for Australia, they should see reality and explore all options, and then deside. They are investing big amount of money as well as time.

Sent from my RMX1971 using Tapatalk


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## kevaljax (Sep 18, 2018)

NB said:


> You are not realising that the after effects of the covid on health of those who contracted it will be felt for a long time
> 
> Aged care will be reformed in a big way and will require several times more nurses then those that are employed at each centre now
> 
> ...


I understand that, but government are deceiving by keeping ceiling of other occupation high. Anyways, there is no point of discussing on this. Because AUS aspirants who have sept money and time are suffering a lot and that is also devastating condition.

Sent from my RMX1971 using Tapatalk


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## Marsickk (Oct 5, 2019)

NB said:


> You are not realising that the after effects of the covid on health of those who contracted it will be felt for a long time
> 
> Cheers


What after effects on those who contracted it are we talking about? I haven't heard about any effects in those states where it's quite now in terms of covid. Is is it gonna be like Chernobyl disaster effect?


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## sainius (May 22, 2020)

ankur31 said:


> That's exactly what I mean! They don't set a target i.e. don't give us a fixed number. Ceilings give no prepective at all since they never reach ceilings these days. You can never guess if a certain occupation will reach 10% of the celing value or 50%. So ceilings are useless when invites are limited.
> 
> I know it's difficult to set a fixed number even for the govt. But they have to do it every year. Giving a range shouldn't be difficult. For example, giving a range like 5000-15000. That would mean they will invite at lease 5000 and not more than 15000. Since the EOI data is public, a potential immigrant would be easily able to make informed decisions. This would greatly help people who would otherwise take PTEs, get skills assessment, PCCs in well advance and then end up waiting for years in uncertainity.
> Taking exams and getting assessed is a long and frustrating process. My wife got 79+ in PTE in her 4th attempt. In her first three attempts, she would score 80+ in three sections but get exactly 78 in one section! It happened three times in a row. Can you imagine the stress? We changed the center and she was finally able to get 82+ in all sections. Getting a PR is not limited to just uploading your passport and waiting for 4 months. There are like 10 different things you need to do as a part of the process.



Hey mate, your are not alone, all of us are sailing in the same boat with different challenges on the way.

I can relate to you and imagine all the STRESS as it took me 8 months and five attempts to crack PTE A, when i finally scored in overall 90. In my fourth attempt i was just one short(78 in listening). But i worked hard and came up with flying colors in Feb-2020 AND THEN CORONA CAME......

So, i am at the same place which i was one year back, i have wasted my money my time and what for??? NOTHING

All what we can do is to Keep calm and believe in our FATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Try to explore other options as well while continuing yours journey towards PR.lane: 

Telecommunication Network Professional (263312)

189 @ 80 Points 08/02/2020


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

RichardTuan said:


> If it's just as simple as this, then no need to go to regional, to crack PTE 79, CCL, PY, no need to even go to university for points. Many will be unhappy


Of course you would go regional for the jobs that are in the region
It would prevent software engineers to take regional visas and then drive Uber’s
Also do you think that having 79 in PTEA really helps applicants in life
I don’t agree
Functional English is more then enough for most jobs
The objective of immigration should be to provide the requisite skilled manpower to local industries and not be a money spinning exercise for connected agencies

Cheers


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

Marsickk said:


> What after effects on those who contracted it are we talking about? I haven't heard about any effects in those states where it's quite now in terms of covid. Is is it gonna be like Chernobyl disaster effect?


Lungs to a big extent and heart to some extent will be affected of those patients who were symptomatic and will require rehabilitation 

Those who were asymptomatic will not need rehabilitation from the looks of it, but only time will tell

Cheers


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

kevaljax said:


> Sorry NB, but I hv not asked ur consultancy on this. I hv just shared my view on this.
> 
> I hv already started exploring other options.
> 
> ...


If you post something, be prepared to hear the other side
There are many hypocrites on the forum who advise others to do something while they do exactly the opposite for themselves 


Cheers


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## negi (Dec 11, 2019)

Marsickk said:


> What after effects on those who contracted it are we talking about? I haven't heard about any effects in those states where it's quite now in terms of covid. Is is it gonna be like Chernobyl disaster effect?


Especially Elderly people who got infected and recovered from the virus might suffer/become prone to various other illnesses because of the after effects of low immunity and that might/will need frequent hospitalization and much more rehabilitation. Australia has a big ageing population so seeing that they do need a lot of Nurses/Healthcare professionals for coming years.


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## RichardTuan (Jul 17, 2020)

*RichardTuan*



NB said:


> Of course you would go regional for the jobs that are in the region
> It would prevent software engineers to take regional visas and then drive Uber’s
> Also do you think that having 79 in PTEA really helps applicants in life
> I don’t agree
> ...


I mean if they scrap 189 altogether ( as u suggested), what kind of fool will pour money to those things ( regional study, PTE79) ? A lot of money will be lost. But I am not saying that it is important or that Australia gov cares about that loss.:eyebrows::eyebrows:All in all, I agree with you. But if they want to scrap it, please do it now. Do you think they will have any incentive to do it?


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## kevaljax (Sep 18, 2018)

NB said:


> If you post something, be prepared to hear the other side
> There are many hypocrites on the forum who advise others to do something while they do exactly the opposite for themselves
> 
> 
> Cheers


Agree, but other side sould be generic not personal.

Anyways thanks.

Sent from my RMX1971 using Tapatalk


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

RichardTuan said:


> I mean if they scrap 189 altogether ( as u suggested), what kind of fool will pour money to those things ( regional study, PTE79) ? A lot of money will be lost. But I am not saying that it is important or that Australia gov cares about that loss.:eyebrows::eyebrows:All in all, I agree with you. But if they want to scrap it, please do it now. Do you think they will have any incentive to do it?


They should but they will not
They need the 189 as a carrot to attract students

Cheers


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## RichardTuan (Jul 17, 2020)

NB said:


> They should but they will not
> They need the 189 as a carrot to attract students
> 
> Cheers


exactly what I think, employment-based scheme will cause Aus unis more harm than good. Anw, 189 is my main pathway so I pray they will keep it alive as long as it is needed.:juggle::juggle:


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## ankur31 (Aug 20, 2018)

sainius said:


> Hey mate, your are not alone, all of us are sailing in the same boat with different challenges on the way.
> 
> I can relate to you and imagine all the STRESS as it took me 8 months and five attempts to crack PTE A, when i finally scored in overall 90. In my fourth attempt i was just one short(78 in listening). But i worked hard and came up with flying colors in Feb-2020 AND THEN CORONA CAME......
> 
> ...


True this!! Cheers! Hope everything comes out to be good eventually.


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## RiverOne (Dec 3, 2017)

I think the points system was the result of a very elaborate study of immigration of other countries and is much more wholesome when you compare it to US and UK. If this system was so bad, those two countries would not be moving in this direction today. Because let's think about it:

- you get points for age because they want people who can join the workforce and work hard. If you're older, obviously you're more seasoned but can't be expected to have the same energy as someone in the 18-34 demographic. Plus, there is an age cap after which you can only try investor visas.

- points for English seem meaningless but when you look at the Latin immigrants in US and Desis in UK, you're just creating a cesspool of racism. Granted racism is everywhere but you know you're at least plugging some obvious triggers. They adapted the literal meaning of the idiom, "speaks my language". Despite this we know people in Aus (PRs) whose English is not even understandable.

- education, that's most obvious. again you don't want to be importing uneducated bigots and adding to the problems. 

- regional study, oz study, prof year, oz experience - you get the benefit of contributing to their economy even before becoming one of them

if anything the most unnecessary point I find is NAATI which I think is a mere purchase of 5 points, because you've a mother tongue. lol


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## dybydx (Jul 23, 2019)

RiverOne said:


> I think the points system was the result of a very elaborate study of immigration of other countries and is much more wholesome when you compare it to US and UK. If this system was so bad, those two countries would not be moving in this direction today. Because let's think about it:
> 
> - you get points for age because they want people who can join the workforce and work hard. If you're older, obviously you're more seasoned but can't be expected to have the same energy as someone in the 18-34 demographic. Plus, there is an age cap after which you can only try investor visas.
> 
> ...


The point system itself is not wrong at all, but the major problem with Australia is that they do not value the highest on skilled employment, especially onshore experience, which it is purpose of this visa category.

Australia system turns this into a point hunting game for a residency in the first world country (Really?? according to my experience, I don't think Australia is, public transportation system in Sydney is worse than back in the capital of my home country)

They should value higher on skilled employment, especially with onshore employment. 

Also, in terms of skilled migration, they should make skilled experiene points as a mandatory one. No matter what onshore or offshore but applicant will need at lest 5 points for skilled employment. 

For me, a bad English (according to many people here) low pointer who are currently working onshore, I just did a calculation on my same situation with Canada and NZ. It is totally my wrong decision to choose Australia. If I went to Canada or NZ, I would get a PR right now at this time.


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

RiverOne said:


> I think the points system was the result of a very elaborate study of immigration of other countries and is much more wholesome when you compare it to US and UK. If this system was so bad, those two countries would not be moving in this direction today. Because let's think about it:
> 
> - you get points for age because they want people who can join the workforce and work hard. If you're older, obviously you're more seasoned but can't be expected to have the same energy as someone in the 18-34 demographic. Plus, there is an age cap after which you can only try investor visas.
> 
> ...


This point system made sense in the beginning when the competition wasn't as intense, and you could score enough with reasonable amount and phase out very low pointers. Now it's just generic race to the top that means nothing to the real value of applicants.

I don't really understand your point on racism...having max PTE score somehow removes that from the equation? This score means nothing in real life use, literally, it is a money making machine that is for sure. NZ example where anything above 7 is not taken into account makes sense, you are expected to have certain level to get in but anything above is not of real value but IELTS and PTE centers. I review technical reports all day from locals here and I can guarantee you nobody speaks the language that is given in IELTS or PTE. The terms, the sentence structure and form is just totally off any real world use. And you can immediately spot someone who took that language for granted and tries to use it in real life conversation, it looks and feels very awkward. 

How do you explain that anything above 8 yrs of experience is not important for the point score? Or anything after 10 yrs overall experience is disregarded? Surely someone with 15 yrs is better for the economy than 8 yrs...I mean it's basic employment requirement. Most senior positions are above this level, yet this system equalizes someone with 8 and 20 yrs of experience. It's complete nonsense, what kind of elaborate study came up with this?

Education is not that important, there are numerous hair dressers, tennis coaches, mechanics etc...invited by NSW this year that have no higher education. In a bizarre way you have more chance of getting an invite now as Plumber than high score Engineer. It's really wrong to call anyone without a Uni degree a bigot, yes you get more points for it but mechanics or plumbers are needed too for the economy.

I think biggest flaw is undervalued local experience points, in terms of employment is a number one thing here. Somehow in the points score not really, and more points you have the more you get deducted as they balance out between overseas and local. So instead giving someone with 10 yrs overseas and 10 yrs local experience a lot of points...that person gets points deducted and his actual experience diminished in the overall score.


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## Aussie dreamz (Feb 20, 2020)

Neb Ulozny said:


> This point system made sense in the beginning when the competition wasn't as intense, and you could score enough with reasonable amount and phase out very low pointers. Now it's just generic race to the top that means nothing to the real value of applicants.
> 
> I don't really understand your point on racism...having max PTE score somehow removes that from the equation? This score means nothing in real life use, literally, it is a money making machine that is for sure. NZ example where anything above 7 is not taken into account makes sense, you are expected to have certain level to get in but anything above is not of real value but IELTS and PTE centers. I review technical reports all day from locals here and I can guarantee you nobody speaks the language that is given in IELTS or PTE. The terms, the sentence structure and form is just totally off any real world use. And you can immediately spot someone who took that language for granted and tries to use it in real life conversation, it looks and feels very awkward.
> 
> ...


I assume you are working in Australia on a TSS visa in your nominated occupation. You are a perfect candidate for permanent residency under Employer Nomination 186 TRT Stream if you work for the same employer for 3 years


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## Neb Ulozny (Feb 13, 2020)

Aussie dreamz said:


> I assume you are working in Australia on a TSS visa in your nominated occupation. You are a perfect candidate for permanent residency under Employer Nomination 186 TRT Stream if you work for the same employer for 3 years


I'm actually in the same occupation as you are...with the same number of points. 

Yeah, regarding the 186, my employer is acting stiff and they will probably wait until the last month of my 4 yr visa to initiate this as they did it with some people who work with me. Then you go to bridging visa until it's all sorted out and it's big hassle really, that is if they decide to sponsor me.

They are very reluctant though, talking about cost to business blah blah but I know it's because many people left the company as soon as they got the PR. So it doesn't make sense for them to sponsor anyone now, and it's one thing that is annoying...your whole destiny depending on a very big company and you are just another cog in the wheel. It's not even important if you have very good status at the moment...managers change, new HR lead comes in, new director who has other business ideas..etc.

It's not important if I'm the best engineer they have either...they still have thousands of others ready to jump in, so yeah it may seem like easy pathway but it's very stressful knowing that is my only hope for PR how things currently stand in the points path. Not only I depend on my employer's good will but also on their business performance, one lost big tender and they will lay off temp visa guys first. 

Honestly, if I had any idea how stressful this whole PR process would be I would never sign the contract and come here. It's completely out of my hands despite bringing 18 yrs of experience on biggest infra projects around the world to Australia...who cares. I don't have enough points and therefore not worthy of Australia's residence, no matter how crazy that sounds.


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## Rocky90 (Aug 26, 2020)

I have been a common lurker in these threads from last 2 yrs, I know I might be venting out here and describing my chase of the imaginary Australian dream, but since some people are new here, maybe it can help them to decide what they should do.

I had applied for 189 and 190 in 2018 with 70 points initially and waited for one year where my points increased to 75 due to my experience. Unexpectedly, Australian immigration dept decided to invite people with 80 and 85 points, it was basically a cat and a mouse game, where my points increased and govt decided to go for higher cut off everytime. I thought maybe the remaining people in these quota might take some months to get their invites and then they will invite people with 75 points. But boy was I so wrong, they decided to change to the system to some absurd single and married system and give 10,15 points to resp categories..

I am unmarried, and I thought this might give me a upper hand where I will get an invite but the fantastic immigration system reduced the number of invites to meagre 500 from 1000 but I still kept my hopes but the final nail in the coffin was when covid struck and finally today my EOI has expired.


1. wasted some serious amount for my agent
who did nothing other than filling my form, honestly I would never recommend anyone to go for an agent. they are just milking people.
2. wasted lots of money thrice to answer the absurd English exam which strangely expires after 2 years, imagine you forget to speak english after 2 yrs.. and your bachelor degree makes no sense but your english expires after 2 yrs.
3. Documents and their notarization should be as per their template. your skills don't matter.
4. Your first 2 yrs of career experience is slashed , coz they think you were just a toddler who spoke gibberish and suddenly you become a skilled adult at the exact moment you turn 3 years.

I know nobody really cares about my story, maybe some people might have highlighted these points earlier. I am by no means trying to demotivate you guys, I just thought of putting out my story and now I have decided never to pursue this country again.

It's sad that nobody notices the fact that skilled people actually drive the economies in every nation. I guess Australia never wants immigrants anymore or they want only people whose only goal in life is to have the highest points, anyways be whatever the reason, the only thing I can sum up about this is to stop giving hopes of immigration, there are many people who take it really seriously and waste their time in this vicious circus.

if you reached till here then I would like to say,
Good luck to everyone and those who are waiting for their invites, I know I couldn't make it, but I genuinely wish you guys get an invite.

Thanks.. signing off!!


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## fictional (Apr 6, 2019)

I feel completely hopeless right now. I applied for my PR last year in August with 80 points. Over a year later, I have not received any message from a case officer, I am unsure if a CO has even opened the file. 

My case is relatively simple as I studied in Australia and have been working here for the past 5 years. Is there something I can do? 1 year without any update sounds quite long.


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## Aussie dreamz (Feb 20, 2020)

Neb Ulozny said:


> I'm actually in the same occupation as you are...with the same number of points.
> 
> Yeah, regarding the 186, my employer is acting stiff and they will probably wait until the last month of my 4 yr visa to initiate this as they did it with some people who work with me. Then you go to bridging visa until it's all sorted out and it's big hassle really, that is if they decide to sponsor me.
> 
> ...


There are widespread allegations that most employers abuse sponsorship visas and undercut wages by hiring overseas skilled workers. I personally know a person (Software Engineer) who came to Australia on 482 TSS Visa, currently working as a Senior Consultant in a global company with a salary package of a moderate $75k despite the current designation and 8+ years of experience. Senior Consultants in IT fields have an average salary of over $100k in Australia. Fair works Ombudsman clearly outlines that temporary skilled workers should be provided with equivalent pay to that of any Australian employee who has the same occupation as you in your workplace. However, as you have mentioned several times, employers know that most overseas workers are expendables, work harder and less likely to complain

With that being said, he is single/happy with his current work arrangements, plans to gain points for Australian work experience and apply for 189/190 on his own 

I completely understand your situation having to wait for skilled PR despite your years of expertise. The current trend of targeted invitation rounds under 189 is a blessing in disguise especially for Non-Pro-Rata occupations. Civil Engineers and Registered Nurse have always received most invitations under Non-Pro Rata as per previous years outcome. More than 800 invitations have been issued for Registered Nurse since April 2020. Therefore, it is good that most of them are off the queue under our category. In addition, after seeing the Tasmania state nominations update yesterday, it is clear that the department is waiting for federal allocations to resume invitations for non-health related occupations post October budget announcements

P.S: As far as I know, there are very few Civil Engineers on this forum. It always feels great to see an active expat from the same profession and please keep posting!


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## gsr_2339 (Feb 19, 2020)

Rocky90 said:


> I have been a common lurker in these threads from last 2 yrs, I know I might be venting out here and describing my chase of the imaginary Australian dream, but since some people are new here, maybe it can help them to decide what they should do.
> 
> I had applied for 189 and 190 in 2018 with 70 points initially and waited for one year where my points increased to 75 due to my experience. Unexpectedly, Australian immigration dept decided to invite people with 80 and 85 points, it was basically a cat and a mouse game, where my points increased and govt decided to go for higher cut off everytime. I thought maybe the remaining people in these quota might take some months to get their invites and then they will invite people with 75 points. But boy was I so wrong, they decided to change to the system to some absurd single and married system and give 10,15 points to resp categories..
> 
> ...


Hey mate, this is not your story this is my story as well also, this is the story of many people who are sailing in the same boat with you. However, the unfortunate thing is that they have slashed the 189 number and introduced that regional 491 visa in order to reduce congestion in the cities. However, they are allowing many temporary visa holders like students, visitors, temporary skilled people and there is no guarantee that these people go and stay in the regional areas and hence there will always be congestion which they cannot ease unless they route all the people coming to australia to regional areas and do not allow anyone to major cities.


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## RichardTuan (Jul 17, 2020)

fictional said:


> I feel completely hopeless right now. I applied for my PR last year in August with 80 points. Over a year later, I have not received any message from a case officer, I am unsure if a CO has even opened the file.
> 
> My case is relatively simple as I studied in Australia and have been working here for the past 5 years. Is there something I can do? 1 year without any update sounds quite long.


the maximum now is 15 months, so do not worry, once you're in, you're in :clap2::clap2:


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## Warrior009 (Jun 18, 2020)

Rocky90 said:


> I have been a common lurker in these threads from last 2 yrs, I know I might be venting out here and describing my chase of the imaginary Australian dream, but since some people are new here, maybe it can help them to decide what they should do.
> 
> I had applied for 189 and 190 in 2018 with 70 points initially and waited for one year where my points increased to 75 due to my experience. Unexpectedly, Australian immigration dept decided to invite people with 80 and 85 points, it was basically a cat and a mouse game, where my points increased and govt decided to go for higher cut off everytime. I thought maybe the remaining people in these quota might take some months to get their invites and then they will invite people with 75 points. But boy was I so wrong, they decided to change to the system to some absurd single and married system and give 10,15 points to resp categories..
> 
> ...


Stay strong


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## Warrior009 (Jun 18, 2020)

fictional said:


> I feel completely hopeless right now. I applied for my PR last year in August with 80 points. Over a year later, I have not received any message from a case officer, I am unsure if a CO has even opened the file.
> 
> My case is relatively simple as I studied in Australia and have been working here for the past 5 years. Is there something I can do? 1 year without any update sounds quite long.


Some people just cry all their life


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

fictional said:


> I feel completely hopeless right now. I applied for my PR last year in August with 80 points. Over a year later, I have not received any message from a case officer, I am unsure if a CO has even opened the file.
> 
> My case is relatively simple as I studied in Australia and have been working here for the past 5 years. Is there something I can do? 1 year without any update sounds quite long.


I don’t understand the Reason for your despair
You have a bridging visa lined up in case your existing visa expires
So there is no reason for such despair
Let the grant come in its own sweet time 

Cheers


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## Muka (Jun 15, 2019)

NB said:


> fictional said:
> 
> 
> > I feel completely hopeless right now. I applied for my PR last year in August with 80 points. Over a year later, I have not received any message from a case officer, I am unsure if a CO has even opened the file.
> ...


The despair is because with 80 points the chances of PR is slim if not impossible.


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## Gunnidhi (Nov 6, 2019)

Actually, the point is too many things happened at the same time against the candidates. Increasing competition and low no. of invites caused the problem. One disadvantage, not anymore, with offshore folks was the NAATI exam. Onshore people cleared the NAATI and got additional advantage of 5 points, and with less no. of invites, those 5 points made huge difference. For me also it was cat and mouse race for those 5 points, I appeared for NAATI exam online and got those 5 points. and then CORONA happened. Time where I would have submitted my documents and waiting for the grant, I am still waiting for my invite. Hopefully soon it will be there.


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## RiverOne (Dec 3, 2017)

Muka said:


> The despair is because with 80 points the chances of PR is slim if not impossible.


He's waiting for grant, not invitation.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

fictional said:


> I feel completely hopeless right now. I applied for my PR last year in August with 80 points. Over a year later, I have not received any message from a case officer, I am unsure if a CO has even opened the file.
> 
> My case is relatively simple as I studied in Australia and have been working here for the past 5 years. Is there something I can do? 1 year without any update sounds quite long.


You have to wait patiently 
Very few to negligible grants are being done in sectors other then healthcare related Anzsco codes
Count your blessings that at least you got your invite 
It would have been practically impossible in today’s circumstances 

Cheers


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## gsr_2339 (Feb 19, 2020)

NB said:


> fictional said:
> 
> 
> > I feel completely hopeless right now. I applied for my PR last year in August with 80 points. Over a year later, I have not received any message from a case officer, I am unsure if a CO has even opened the file.
> ...


 well said, mate if he is waiting for invite it was impossible in today's time to get invite. However, he got the invitation and waiting for his grant and he is feeling hopeless eventhough he is on bridging visa and has full work rights also he is eligible for medicare as well.


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## Silentpoison (Sep 30, 2019)

September thread link ?


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## mustafa01 (Jan 29, 2017)

Silentpoison said:


> September thread link ?


Here you go
https://www.expatforum.com/expats/a...1504998-189-invitations-september-2020-a.html


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