# Does anyone take State Dept Warnings seriously?



## TooColdTooOften (Feb 27, 2014)

Reading the U.S. government's warnings and advisories can be a sobering experience, or maybe I should say frightening. Does anyone take these warnings with more than a grain of salt? I understand being careful, and aware, not flashing money or getting all drunk and stupid; common sense goes a long way. 

Especially in and around border regions, it seems like the govt of Mexico has done a good job of reducing overall violence. Am I wrong? Did anyone pick a state or city based on what the Dept of State had to say?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TooColdTooOften said:


> Reading the U.S. government's warnings and advisories can be a sobering experience, or maybe I should say frightening. Does anyone take these warnings with more than a grain of salt?


I take them (when I read them which is seldom) with salt substitute since my blood pressure is a bit on the high side!


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Evidently millions of people do since tourism is down so much the last few years. I have sat in restaurants in tourist area that have over 60 tables and besides the cashier, the waiter and cook I was the only guest in the place...que lastima


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

If the State Department didn't give these warnings and something bad happened, there would be a rush of people demanding an explanation on why they didn't. Possibly a Congressional investigation run by Issa.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

joaquinx said:


> If the State Department didn't give these warnings and something bad happened, there would be a rush of people demanding an explanation on why they didn't. Possibly a Congressional investigation run by Issa.


No doubt that's one reason why they issue them, to avoid being sued, if it's possible to sue the Federal government.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> No doubt that's one reason why they issue them, to avoid being sued, if it's possible to sue the Federal government.


It is possible to sue the Federal government, but only when they were engaged in a non-governmental activity.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

The ones sent out by Consulates tend to be regional and current .... but still can be over the top at times


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

joaquinx said:


> It is possible to sue the Federal government, but only when they were engaged in a non-governmental activity.


Such as . . .?


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## emilybcruz (Oct 29, 2013)

Well considering I live in Juarez I think my response is pretty obvious...


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

emilybcruz said:


> Well considering I live in Juarez I think my response is pretty obvious...


So, Emily, if you have ever read any of the warnings about your area, have you found them to be accurate or somewhat off the mark?


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> Such as . . .?


Running a snack bar in a federal building or park. Operating a golf course. Renting vehicles or equipment in parks. 

Most activities such as these are done by concessionaires for good reason.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

joaquinx said:


> Running a snack bar in a federal building or park. Operating a golf course. Renting vehicles or equipment in parks.
> 
> Most activities such as these are done by concessionaires for good reason.


I see. Thanks, joaquin.


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## emilybcruz (Oct 29, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> So, Emily, if you have ever read any of the warnings about your area, have you found them to be accurate or somewhat off the mark?


I tend to find them to be off the mark for the city as a whole. There are certain parts of the Juarez (like any large city) that have more criminal activity going on, more homicides particulary, and the warnings may be accurate for those areas. A couple of years ago, the warnings did seem accurate for the city as a whole though.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

joaquinx said:


> It is possible to sue the Federal government, but only when they were engaged in a non-governmental activity.


I don't think that is a very accurate statement of the situation. There is a law called the Federal Tort Claims Act which spells out the conditions under which it is possible to make a claim against a federal agency or employee.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

TundraGreen said:


> I don't think that is a very accurate statement of the situation. There is a law called the Federal Tort Claims Act which spells out the conditions under which it is possible to make a claim against a federal agency or employee.


I believe that under this law, the Feds have to give permission, while under the situations I mention, they don't have to give permission.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

joaquinx said:


> I believe that under this law, the Feds have to give permission, while under the situations I mention, they don't have to give permission.


That is correct, the Federal Government decides which suits can be brought, an interesting concept.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

TooColdTooOften said:


> Reading the U.S. government's warnings and advisories can be a sobering experience, or maybe I should say frightening. Does anyone take these warnings with more than a grain of salt? I understand being careful, and aware, not flashing money or getting all drunk and stupid; common sense goes a long way.
> 
> Especially in and around border regions, it seems like the govt of Mexico has done a good job of reducing overall violence. Am I wrong? Did anyone pick a state or city based on what the Dept of State had to say?


My observation has been that the Travel Warnings for Mexico issued by the U.S. Department of State are probably the most factually-based, correct and specific assessment of the situations described in that document or on that webpage and that the harshest critics of those warnings are eithe 1) shills for one or another segment of the tourism industry in Mexico, 2) they believe that just because they live in Mexico (or even in a region that the Warning may discuss) they know more than the people writing the Warning, or 3) they've never read the detail contained in the Warning. The Warnings are intended for people unfamiliar with current events occuring in the country which present risks. And I think they do a good job of it. The war, terrorism and related criminal activity is real and in-your-face in many parts of the country. No, not all. Advance planning (including heeding the advice in the Warnings) and applying common sense will usually substantially reduce any risks. I don't share your opinion that the Mexican government has "done a good job of reducing overall violence," not judging by the many reports I read from around the country. If anything, the country, the federal government, continues to lose control of sections of the country to the terrorists and narco cartels. There are many places to visit in Mexico where one can avoid trouble and for many travelers visiting Mexico can be a very enjoyable and inexpensive trip.


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## TooColdTooOften (Feb 27, 2014)

Longford said:


> My observation has been that the Travel Warnings for Mexico issued by the U.S. Department of State are probably the most factually-based, correct and specific assessment of the situations described in that document or on that webpage and that the harshest critics of those warnings are eithe 1) shills for one or another segment of the tourism industry in Mexico, 2) they believe that just because they live in Mexico (or even in a region that the Warning may discuss) they know more than the people writing the Warning, or 3) they've never read the detail contained in the Warning. The Warnings are intended for people unfamiliar with current events occuring in the country which present risks. And I think they do a good job of it. The war, terrorism and related criminal activity is real and in-your-face in many parts of the country. No, not all. Advance planning (including heeding the advice in the Warnings) and applying common sense will usually substantially reduce any risks. I don't share your opinion that the Mexican government has "done a good job of reducing overall violence," not judging by the many reports I read from around the country. If anything, the country, the federal government, continues to lose control of sections of the country to the terrorists and narco cartels. There are many places to visit in Mexico where one can avoid trouble and for many travelers visiting Mexico can be a very enjoyable and inexpensive trip.



That part about the government doing "a good job of reducing overall violence" could have been worded better. As soon as I hit submit, I thought... "hmmm. Wait." Am I wrong to conclude that violence has been on a downward trajectory?: it is, after all, a conclusion I hope is based on reasonable research. I'm taking a little boy with me, and I'd like to avoid inserting him into a hot LZ. That's almost how the advisories feel. They make me SO uneasy that I write off places like Xalapa, or Lake Chapala. But then I read more and feel like those warnings are overstating the potential for danger. By taking him into Chicago or Detroit when he was 3, and recently to Anaheim, didn't I expose him to more or less the same degree of danger (or more?) than those areas in Mexico?

BTW, I apologize if my questions turn into statements—it's just SO hard to resist the urge to be as verbose as possible.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TooColdTooOften said:


> That part about the government doing "a good job of reducing overall violence" could have been worded better. As soon as I hit submit, I thought... "hmmm. Wait." Am I wrong to conclude that violence has been on a downward trajectory?: it is, after all, a conclusion I hope is based on reasonable research. I'm taking a little boy with me, and I'd like to avoid inserting him into a hot LZ. That's almost how the advisories feel. They make me SO uneasy that I write off places like Xalapa, or Lake Chapala. But then I read more and feel like those warnings are overstating the potential for danger. By taking him into Chicago or Detroit when he was 3, and recently to Anaheim, didn't I expose him to more or less the same degree of danger (or more?) than those areas in Mexico?
> 
> BTW, I apologize if my questions turn into statements—it's just SO hard to resist the urge to be as verbose as possible.


I've never thought of Lake Chapala and Xalapa as dangerous locations. Are these two places that the US government advisories are warning people away from? It would be interesting if the Mexican government issued travel advisories for any of its citizens planning a vacation in the US, wouldn't it?


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## TooColdTooOften (Feb 27, 2014)

Isla Verde said:


> I've never thought of Lake Chapala and Xalapa as dangerous locations. Are these two places that the US government advisories are warning people away from? It would be interesting if the Mexican government issued travel advisories for any of its citizens planning a vacation in the US, wouldn't it?


haha. Maybe they should. "Be extremely cautious in the West and South sides of Chicago, random muggings, shootings, and numerous firefights often occur injuring and killing innocent persons. Mexican Government personnel are not allowed to travel through South Central L.A., and you shouldn't either! And people, DON'T GO ANYWHERE NEAR FLINT MICHIGAN... Wherever you DO go, go armed to the teeth. It's like the Wild West up here." -- My Travel Advisory for Mexican Citizens.

No, not specifically xalapa, but the state of Veracruz. Also, from the Travel Advisory of Jan 9, 2014: 
"Jalisco: Guadalajara, Puerto Vallarta, and Lake Chapala are major cities/travel destinations in Jalisco - Defer non-essential travel to areas of the state that borders the state of Michoacán and Zacatecas. [Well, I don't know where the state borders are, and getting from point A to B is always essential to me.] The security situation... continues to be unstable and gun battles between criminal groups and authorities occur. Concerns include roadblocks placed by individuals posing as police or military personnel [Now, who would stop at ANY checkpoint after reading that? I'll tell you who: anyone who read this next little tidbit: if you don't stop, you'll probably be murdered :rip:] and recent gun battles between rival TCOs involving automatic weapons." It goes on to say it's okay to travel during the day in this or that area, no advisory here or there. Then, I read about a couple murdered in their home in Ajiji, and crossed it off my list. Too soon, admittedly. 

Here's Jan 2014 assessment if anyone's interested: Mexico Travel Warning


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## emilybcruz (Oct 29, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> I've never thought of Lake Chapala and Xalapa as dangerous locations. Are these two places that the US government advisories are warning people away from? It would be interesting if the Mexican government issued travel advisories for any of its citizens planning a vacation in the US, wouldn't it?


Lol. Actually, several US cities made Business Insider's Most Violent Cities In The World list last year. Oakland came in at #43, Baltimore #41, St. Louis #40, Detroit #21 annnnd finally New Orleans at #17 (behind Ciudad Juarez)

The Most Violent Cities In The World - Business Insider


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Isla Verde said:


> I've never thought of Lake Chapala and Xalapa as dangerous locations. Are these two places that the US government advisories are warning people away from? It would be interesting if the Mexican government issued travel advisories for any of its citizens planning a vacation in the US, wouldn't it?


There have been a couple or several recent murders of expat residents in the Lake Chapala communities, but I don't think the U.S. Government has issued a warning for the area. The Travel Warnings are very specific, IMO, and issued only after multiple and verifiable incidents. Several "foreign" governments have issued travel warnings/cautions for parts of the USA. It's nothing new. I recall, some years ago, several countries warning their citizens against visiting MIami because a dozen or so were assaulted in rental cars. This is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Governments (not just the USA, by the way) caution citizens traveling to Mexico out of a sense of obligation/protection. The Mexican tourism industry understandably tries to paint a picture of "all is well" to counter the negatives. But the negatives are real and present, in parts of the country. It's a huge challenge for visitors to know where to go, and where to avoid. And residents in Mexico, unless they work very hard to inform themselves, are not well-informed about many current events and risks.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

The warning about Miami was more than several years ago,, it was like 20 years ago when rental cars had special plates, the attacks resulted in a change of plates for all rentals in that area and after that it was not possile to ID rental cars via their plates. I remember that very well as we rented a convertable when we arrived and proceeded to get lost in Littl Havana right away...


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Of course there are problems, but before one flies into Mexico looking for a laid back lifestyle, one should read up on the place and use what used to be called common sense.
I lived in Mexico for almost 40 years and never ever had a problem, but then I wasn't out at night late, but my kids were and while I had many a sleepless night, fortunately they both returned safe in the early hours of the morning.
Years and years ago I would hear of the friend of a cousin that got assaulted and one would say how terrible, but over the last few years I knew people who had been assaulted, but very often doing things that I would never do. My husband's cousin got assaulted at the cash point of a bank in the DF at 6am on her way to work, but the first thing I said was why was she taking money out in a very quiet spot at that time in the morning. I wouldn't do that anywhere.
Then there is always the problem of drugs. Fortunately, my family had no interest in drugs but they can be bought on many street corners, and unfortunately, the people that sell are very often checking you out. do you arrive in a flash car etc., would it be worth kidnapping you?


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## TooColdTooOften (Feb 27, 2014)

Longford said:


> There have been a couple or several recent murders of expat residents in the Lake Chapala communities, but I don't think the U.S. Government has issued a warning for the area. The Travel Warnings are very specific, IMO, and issued only after multiple and verifiable incidents... But the negatives are real and present, in parts of the country. It's a huge challenge for visitors to know where to go, and where to avoid. And residents in Mexico, unless they work very hard to inform themselves, are not well-informed about many current events and risks.


I agree with almost everything in that quote, especially the part about specificity. They are so specific one needs to do some research to figure out exactly where they're talking about. However, they seem to include very unlikely, one-off incidents. For example, the part that says, "U.S. Govt personnel were shot at..." by Federales. (Yep, it's in there.)

It looks as if the southern part of the lake borders the state of Michoacán. And, although the northern border with Zacatecas seems a safe distance north of Guadalajara, both borders were mentioned in the 1/2014 warning, as was traveling between "major population centers" at night.

From the advisory I quoted earlier in this thread (sorry for duplicating):

"Jalisco: Guadalajara, Puerto Vallarta, and Lake Chapala are major cities/travel destinations in Jalisco - Defer non-essential travel to areas of the state that borders the state of Michoacán and Zacatecas.... Except for the areas of the state that border Michoacán, there is no advisory in effect for daytime travel within major population centers or major highways in the state of Jalisco. Intercity travel at night is not recommended..."

Do you guys in Jalisco really travel between cities only during daylight hours? Do you, or would you avoid those state borders because of the State Dept's Travel Warning?

The question is sincere; do these advisories have any real affect on your day-to-day activities?


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## TooColdTooOften (Feb 27, 2014)

Justina said:


> do you arrive in a flash car etc., would it be worth kidnapping you?


Nobody with any criminal savvy could make the mistake of thinking I'm worth the hassle of kidnapping.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I live in Jalisco and Chiapas- In Chiapas I do not travel at night as a rule . I will go from Tuxtla to San Cristobal but I will not go the country at night. I also do not care for fog which is comon the mountain roads.

In Jalisco I go to the airport or Guadalajara or other well travelled road at night but I do not travel in the country at night either. Not because of the cartels but because of people and bycicles walking or riding without any light.
We also used to have animals loose on the roads but for the last few years their number seems to be way down. 
I would not go to Michoacan at night either, during the day yes but at night no. I do not go anywhere at night where I would not want to be waiting for help on the side of the road because I have some mechanical problemas either. especially at night.

I read the warnings and make my own decisions but I try not to put myself in a position to be alone at night by the side of the road..


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

ANother one, when I was travelling through Guatemala with Mexican friends they received a mesage from a Mexican agency not to go through the Peten in Guatemala which we had just done and not go to Honduras.
They got really nervous and refused to book a hotel in Honduras so we agreed to spend the night in Guatemala and go to Copan the next day during the day. 
The funny part is that Copan ruinas is a whole lot nicer town than the place we stayed at in Guatemala and felt a whole lot safer as well so you never know..


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Longford said:


> It's a huge challenge for visitors to know where to go, and where to avoid. And residents in Mexico, unless they work very hard to inform themselves, are not well-informed about many current events and risks.


You don´t think that many or most residents watch local TV news and/or listen to radio news and/or read local and National newspapers daily? How unrealistic is that? What else don´t they do in Mexico that you do or others do around the World? eep:


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

AlanMexicali said:


> You don´t think that many or most residents watch local TV news and/or listen to radio news and/or read local and National newspapers daily?


That's not just my opinion, but the opinion of every organization which tracks media penetration in Mexico - from what I've observed. Comic book viewing is high in Mexico, if someone wants to call that "news." Just because you may read and try to keep yourself informed about current events doesn't mean the rest of Mexico does. Let's get our heads out of the sand. 

On a somewhat related topic to what some are commenting on is this discussion, here's a link to a current story about someone from the USA who went to Rosarito for the weekend, or to enjoy himself with friends, and ended-up dead. Wrong place, wrong time. 

Borderland Beat: Update on the shootout in Rosarito, alleged CDS hitman was in fact innocent victim from the US.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Longford said:


> That's not just my opinion, but the opinion of every organization which tracks media penetration in Mexico - from what I've observed. Comic book viewing is high in Mexico, if someone wants to call that "news." Just because you may read and try to keep yourself informed about current events doesn't mean the rest of Mexico does. Let's get our heads out of the sand.
> 
> On a somewhat related topic to what some are commenting on is this discussion, here's a link to a current story about someone from the USA who went to Rosarito for the weekend, or to enjoy himself with friends, and ended-up dead. Wrong place, wrong time.
> 
> Borderland Beat: Update on the shootout in Rosarito, alleged CDS hitman was in fact innocent victim from the US.


I would like to see your statistics as I know most people watch TV news and think you biases are getting a bit tiresome at times.


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## joaquinx (Jul 3, 2010)

Longford said:


> Comic book viewing is high in Mexico


When I first came to Mexico in the 1960's, comic books were everywhere, but today, I don't believe that this is true. Now, if you are talking Facebook, Whatsapp, etc, yes.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

joaquinx said:


> When I first came to Mexico in the 1960's, comic books were everywhere, but today, I don't believe that this is true. Now, if you are talking Facebook, Whatsapp, etc, yes.


Take a ride on the Mexico City Metro sometime .... and look around ... and I think what you'll see... is a sea of those little pocket-sized comic books which are so popular with a certain segment of the population. Lots of pictures/cartoons!


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Longford said:


> Take a ride on the Mexico City Metro sometime .... and look around ... and I think what you'll see... is a sea of those little pocket-sized comic books which are so popular with a certain segment of the population. Lots of pictures/cartoons!


That may be true, but I recall seeing many more people reading comic books everywhere in the 1960s and 1970s.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

AlanMexicali said:


> I would like to see your statistics as I know most people watch TV news and think you biases are getting a bit tiresome at times.


I havent read longfords comments, recently, but do you really think that televisa or azteca give news. My i pad has forgotten apostrophes and question marks and cant be bothered looking for them


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Isla Verde said:


> That may be true, but I recall seeing many more people reading comic books everywhere in the 1960s and 1970s.


Those little books were stories that were drawn and they had some for children but most were for adults. They were stories and had many subjects covered. They were not cartoons, so to speak. 

People used to pass them around as if they were candy bars.

It has been awhile since I have seen many people reading them as was popular 15 years ago or before. I still see them at the news stands and with the used revistas at tianguis.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Justina said:


> I havent read longfords comments, recently, but do you really think that televisa or azteca give news. My i pad has forgotten apostrophes and question marks and cant be bothered looking for them


Local stations news covers all local and cities in the state murders, violent attacks, some roberies but as you may have noticed more politcal guys speaking and economic topics and sports than the good info. 

Azteca´s Foro TV´s Adela covers all important national and international news very well every Mon. - Fri. evening for an hour. IMO

Televisa´s national morning news is somewhat wierd to see because of the clown suit and makeup but interesting at times if you have the time to spend.


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## TOPDOG1 (Mar 20, 2014)

TooColdTooOften said:


> Reading the U.S. government's warnings and advisories can be a sobering experience, or maybe I should say frightening. Does anyone take these warnings with more than a grain of salt? I understand being careful, and aware, not flashing money or getting all drunk and stupid; common sense goes a long way.
> 
> Especially in and around border regions, it seems like the govt of Mexico has done a good job of reducing overall violence. Am I wrong? Did anyone pick a state or city based on what the Dept of State had to say?


The official warnings are for the officials the rest of us are having a blast. Fireworks, Pretty Girls,Bull fights, Cheap drugs, Horses and beer on the beach. Just remember don't bring any stinking officials with you.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

alanmexicali said:


> Local station¨s news covers all local and cities in the state murders, violent attacks, some roberies but as you may have noticed more politcal guys speaking and economic topics and sports than the good info.
> 
> Azteca´s Foro TV´s Adela covers all important national and international news very well every Mon. - Fri. evening for an hour. IMO
> 
> Televisa´s national morning news is somewhat wierd to see because of the clown suit and makeup but interesting at times if you have the time to spend.


Televisa´s Adela News


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

and various stations have various news. Most of the people I know watch the local news on tv. When something happens in the area the people working for me never fail to tell me what they heard on tv. 
The educated young people get it from their smart phones... We had a 19 year old living with us for a couple of months and she never failed to inform us every morning about the passing of new laws and all types of news. I never saw her with a comic book.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TOPDOG1 said:


> The official warnings are for the officials the rest of us are having a blast. Fireworks, Pretty Girls,Bull fights, Cheap drugs, Horses and beer on the beach. Just remember don't bring any stinking officials with you.


Wow, is your Mexico different from mine!


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

AlanMexicali said:


> Local stations news covers all local and cities in the state murders, violent attacks, some roberies but as you may have noticed more politcal guys speaking and economic topics and sports than the good info.
> 
> Azteca´s Foro TV´s Adela covers all important national and international news very well every Mon. - Fri. evening for an hour. IMO
> 
> Televisa´s national morning news is somewhat wierd to see because of the clown suit and makeup but interesting at times if you have the time to spend.


My response and opinions:

Local news stations are relatively few and far between in the country. People familiar with the country understand that. The Televisa national news report, particularly late-evening, does a good /excellent job reporting from Mexico City, with reporters contributing from throughout the country. 

The few national newspapers do just a passable job of reporting on the most important issues of the day. The cost of purchasing a daily or weekly newspaper in a nation where 50%+ of the population lives below the Mexican poverty line, however, is a principal reason readership is so very low nationwide. And let's not forget that local newspapers and other media self-censor due to threats from the narco terrorists which has resulted in the absence of accurate and important news not circulated in the media in parts of the nation. 

Word of mouth reports often start off accurate but quickly become inaccurate as their circulation multiplies in a community.

Many expats just plain lie about what happens in their communities ... because ... I believe ... they feel defensive about their choice of location to live. We saw such irresponsible "all is well" reporting from a few prolific expats posting to Mexico-specific forums when terrorists controlled the center of Oaxaca for that long period of time some years ago. We see such irresponsible comments and false reporting coming from an expat or two in Michoacán now. 

Good local advice is out there but is hard to get for expats. And for Mexicans in many communities the reports become distorted as they're passed along. As for information the average person can find in Mexico about various events ... it's a time consuming and expensive struggle ... for most.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

Longford said:


> My response and opinions:
> 
> Local news stations are relatively few and far between in the country. People familiar with the country understand that. The Televisa national news report, particularly late-evening, does a good /excellent job reporting from Mexico City, with reporters contributing from throughout the country.
> 
> ...


What a bunch of silly nonsense! 

You are so full of it lately, at times, it is hard to believe anything you post that is not from a good Google source! You should stick to Googling.

You don´t even know local stations franchized from Televisa and Aztecas have their own local news done from their individual station´s studios 2x a day. Local reporters and local events NOT censored by Televisa or Aztecas. 

All Narcos love the headlines and local stations report what they see in thier communities without all the dead bodies lying around as before, that is mot censoring, just better taste.


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## wdbarr (Mar 21, 2014)

TooColdTooOften said:


> Reading the U.S. government's warnings and advisories can be a sobering experience, or maybe I should say frightening. Does anyone take these warnings with more than a grain of salt? I understand being careful, and aware, not flashing money or getting all drunk and stupid; common sense goes a long way.
> 
> Especially in and around border regions, it seems like the govt of Mexico has done a good job of reducing overall violence. Am I wrong? Did anyone pick a state or city based on what the Dept of State had to say?


It depends on where you live. I would be more careful in the border areas than I am in the Lake Chapala area. It is fairly safe here, though we did have a murder here of two Canadians in a rather nice area of Lake Chapala, by a couple of construction workers. They had an ongoing dispute about noise and animal abuse so though it was characterized as a robbery, there is also some indication that it was a revenge murder, after they were fired from their job on the jobsite next door to the victims.

But, for us, the area is safe. We have walked through the towns at night and people are polite, we have never felt menaced. So, ask people living in the area you are considering living in. After all, I would not recommend you live in South Chicago, but you are perfectly safe in rural Springfield, Illinois. Same thing here.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Resurrecting a medium old thread…

I just received a US State Department email warning that was actually very specific and very useful.

"Please be advised that currently there is civil unrest in the area of Mercado San Juan de Dios. At this moment the police do not have the situation under control. Due to burned out vehicles and violence there are several street closings in the area. A main road Calzada Independencia is closed north and south bound from Revolucion to Estaban Alatorre. Please avoid this area until the law enforcement has restored civil order."

For those not familiar with Guadalajara, Mercado San Juan de Dios is a huge indoor market located in the center of Guadalajara. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Juan_de_Dios_Market Another name for the market is Mercado Libertad. Colliquially, it is often called "Taiwan de Dios".

According to a local news web site, the situation is now under control and the street is open again (at 5:55 pm today, 31 Oct 2014). But I only know that because the State Department email prompted me to look at the news page.

The disturbance lasted about 4 hours. I haven't seen anything that explains who was involved or why it occurred.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> Resurrecting a medium old thread…
> 
> I just received a US State Department email warning that was actually very specific and very useful.
> 
> ...


Here's what happened and why: El Universal - Los Estados - Queman 2 autos en contra de operativo en Guadalajara

When police arrived at the market to confiscate "productos pirata" from street vendors, they were attacked by the vendors who threw stones and bottles at them. They also set a couple of cars on fire and attacked reporters from various media who came to cover the story.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Isla Verde said:


> Here's what happened and why: El Universal - Los Estados - Queman 2 autos en contra de operativo en Guadalajara
> 
> When police arrived at the market to confiscate "productos pirata" from street vendors, they were attacked by the vendors who threw stones and bottles at them. They also set a couple of cars on fire and attacked reporters from various media who came to cover the story.


Thanks for the link. I guess I will have to add that newspaper to my links. It had more detail than El Informador, the first one I usually look at.

The market is well know for its pirated products. You can buy imitation Levis there that are hard to tell from the real ones. The way I can tell is that genuine Levis are made in Mexico, while the imitation ones sold there are made in Vietnam.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

That´s hilarious. Cops confiscating pirated products is, perhaps, the biggest joke in Mexcio (or anywhere else for that matter). For years, the most prominent pirated DVD selle sold those ilegal DVDs in Jocotepec just outside of the main Jocotepec police station in centro on the main square. Same in Ajijic´s principal square and at Super Lake´s parking lot among other places. If I could sell hypocisy around here I woud make a fortune.

Where we live in San Cristóbal de as Casas, Chiapas. the only DVDs available are pirated so that is what one buys or nothing. Lots of good movies available by the way. Of course, I would never buy one.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Well, tell me here t 8:0PM on Friday night, 10/31. Should I take it seriously that the U.S. authorities are warning all U.S. citizns to stay away from the Mercado de San Juan de Dios área in Guadalajaa as the área is out of control with rioting and major property destruction by massive crowds the Guaadajara cops cannot control? I don´t know if they are right or wrong but I think I´ll bed down at Lake Chapala tonight and defer any trips to Guadalajara Centro. Things seem to be comng unglued. here in Mexico. Maybe I should have retired to Colombia.


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## Caeserea (Oct 13, 2014)

Just come back from Huatolco all quiet there, but apparently, (guy I met there told me) you have to pay some guys on the road to Acapulco in order to pass. 
They just decided to collect tolls
Beats working I suppose


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

In Chiapa de Corzo the students took over the tolls booth last week , it happens every te they are protesting something so probably the same in Acapulco. Every time they do that we get a discount , the toll is 46 pesos and they collect 30..


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> In Chiapa de Corzo the students took over the tolls booth last week , it happens every te they are protesting something so probably the same in Acapulco. Every time they do that we get a discount , the toll is 46 pesos and they collect 30..


Why does the government let them get away with this minor form of highway robbery? I wonder when and how it got started.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Isla Verde said:


> Why does the government let them get away with this minor form of highway robbery? I wonder when and how it got started.


Maybe the powers that be figure it's a kind of escape valve. Let them blow off some steam for a bit and prevent the whole thing from exploding. It sure beats giving an order to "Teach them a lesson" and having them killed or disappeared. 

In a recent link on the Iguala thread a CSM article about Iguala said that many politicians continue to keep a low profile, apparently hoping this situation, too, will fade away and be forgotten, or at least lose its volatility. Only time will tell, but I've heard more than one Mexican friend wonder out loud if Iguala is the triggering event for things to boil over. Criminal impunity (and I'm not referring to students taking over toll booths or commandeering buses - let's keep things in perspective) can only go so far before the rest of society says "¡Basta ya!" (Enough already).


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## Caeserea (Oct 13, 2014)

I have only been living in DF for 3 months and I really haven't noticed or experienced anything that would make me think there is a situation waiting to 'boil over'. 
Anyone who knows more/been here longer would be interesting to hear your thoughts


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## Mextrav46 (Oct 8, 2010)

joaquinx said:


> When I first came to Mexico in the 1960's, comic books were everywhere, but today, I don't believe that this is true. Now, if you are talking Facebook, Whatsapp, etc, yes.


I think you have to join with most Mexicans as expats and follow all the newpapers and govt agencies and anonymous political bloggers (journalism is not a safe profession in Mexico today) on Facebook. When schools close for the weather it is posted on FB for all to see. When a protest march is happening it is announced on FB, usually with current updates. When there is a cultural event, a restaurant opening etc. it is on FB.I have almost 300 FB pages where I live that feed to my FB and there is a built in translator if you can't speak Spanish. 

I recently read that where in most of the world Google is the most accessed page, in Mexico it is Facebook.:noidea:


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I hink the problem is that the police is hated and either overreact or does nothing in many instances. In Chiapas it sees that he police tries to stay out of any demonstration because they are scared of starting a huge upheaval.
A couple of weeks ago something pretty outrageous in Zinacantan. The mother of the governor who is the head of DIF went there to give dispensas. She and the governor are part of the Green Party when Zinacantan is PRI. The presidente and a bunch of men got the mother of the governor and locked her up and demanded 5000 dispensas and 5000 sprayers. The governor flew in with the helicopter to ask for her release and sa down with the presidente who demanded 100 000 pesos for her release.
The governor tod them he was giving the dispensas and sprayers under protest but that he would only give 100 000 pesos if he presidente would change the town from PRI to Green. The Presidente agreed and signed off on it.
Most people in Zinacantan do not know about the party switch but will know next week when the new signs are painted at city hall.. It should get interesting..
Meanwhile if anyone other than indigenous to the governor ´sfamily they probably would be charged with kidnapping and extortion and rightly so.
Unreal things happen down here on both sides and both sides need to get their act straight. Some of the indigenous are blackmailing the government and the government is not much better. As long as this situation last their is no chance of a stable society.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Caeserea said:


> I have only been living in DF for 3 months and I really haven't noticed or experienced anything that would make me think there is a situation waiting to 'boil over'.
> Anyone who knows more/been here longer would be interesting to hear your thoughts


One of the persons who said this lives in Guerrero so maybe he is feeling a greater societal tension than in other parts of the country. The other person is (was) a journalist in Mexico. He had to leave Mexico, since it's not a safe place for a journalist who reports on certain goings on. I hope things don't explode or implode, but I think the current situation is not sustainable.


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## Caeserea (Oct 13, 2014)

Thanks for those insights.
The police academy just a couple of clicks from where I live is apparently to be converted to a 'police university' and the new chief of the academy has promised to change the culture of corruption in the police force. I suppose this is a reaction to and a recognition of the problem.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

yes great plans, but little ever changes here. As people say here " words , words .""


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Caeserea said:


> ... the new chief of the academy has promised to change the culture of corruption in the police force.


:flypig:


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