# What you need to live in Spain



## seasideman (Nov 8, 2015)

Since I have mentioned to people that we are moving to Spain, a lot of people have said it is there dream but feel they cannot afford it.

I have explained to them, that we will not have a fortune to live on because I intend to reduce my working hours by 50% (I am self employed) to spend more time with my wife. Only one of us will be working and my income will drop by 50% and my wife will not be working which will leave us with just £1,600 a month.

We are not buying a property as we are thinking of keeping our property on in the UK, and the thought of that has horrified people we have spoken to. 

A lot of people who are thinking of moving to Spain who are in my age group (46), have said they could not imagine trying to live in Spain with their income. Some of them are self employed earning, £1,200 a month, others earn £1,800, while some have said they earn £1,400. Other people who are not self employed and have looked into moving to spain, have said they know they would not get the same wage as in the uk, so therefore their income would be different. None of them have children, so I have said go for it.

Some have said they have looked into it properly, and found they would have a joint income of £1400 a month, others have said they would have a joint income of £1,700. However, they feel this joint income would not allow them to survive in Spain. I suppose different people need different things, but my research has found that is more than enough.

It seems to me that these people who want to move, are either right they do not have enough monthly income to move, or they are not ready to move from the UK yet, even though they are serious.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

seasideman said:


> Since I have mentioned to people that we are moving to Spain, a lot of people have said it is there dream but feel they cannot afford it.
> 
> I have explained to them, that we will not have a fortune to live on because I intend to reduce my working hours by 50% (I am self employed) to spend more time with my wife. Only one of us will be working and my income will drop by 50% and my wife will not be working which will leave us with just £1,600 a month.
> 
> ...


it would depend where in Spain, & what lifestyle you have

We have one member here who lives, 3 adults, on 700€ a month

others who have 3x that to live on & others with considerably more

different areas, different lifestyles

whether you have children or not, you need to ensure that you have a secure income before coming

under retirement age you need to take into account that you will need to pay for private healthcare, as well

a good rule of thumb is that if can live on whatever income you have in the UK, then you'll be able to live on it here


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## seasideman (Nov 8, 2015)

*income*



xabiachica said:


> it would depend where in Spain, & what lifestyle you have
> 
> We have one member here who lives, 3 adults, on 700€ a month
> 
> ...


That is what I have said. I have said to ignore the euro rate and treat the euro as being the same value as the pound. I have said if you can live on that income in the UK then you can live on it in Spain.

However, when I say that, i get people saying, yes but dont they tax you more. how much is private health insurance. We will get our health insurance included due to being self employed but someone said to me about also taking out private health insurance. So looking more into that.

I think people have to understand, you are not going to get the same wages in Spain as you do in the UK


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

seasideman said:


> That is what I have said. I have said to ignore the euro rate and treat the euro as being the same value as the pound. I have said if you can live on that income in the UK then you can live on it in Spain.
> 
> However, when I say that, i get people saying, yes but dont they tax you more. how much is private health insurance. We will get our health insurance included due to being self employed but someone said to me about also taking out private health insurance. So looking more into that.
> 
> I think people have to understand, you are not going to get the same wages in Spain as you do in the UK


you'd be lucky to get any wages at all.... jobs with contracts are like hens teeth


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## seasideman (Nov 8, 2015)

xabiachica said:


> you'd be lucky to get any wages at all.... jobs with contracts are like hens teeth


I am glad I am self employed and do not have to go through all that process. I think a lot of people have the wrong idea about spain, especially the younger ones. They feel if they move to a tourist area where there are lots of bars, they can get a job much easier. I doubt that is the case. Jobs are hard to come by abroad.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

seasideman said:


> However, when I say that, i get people saying, yes but dont they tax you more. how much is private health insurance. We will get our health insurance included due to being self employed but someone said to me about also taking out private health insurance. So looking more into that.


As self employed - Autonomo, you do have to pay a monthly fee. I believe there is a reduced rate for the first year, rising to approx 250€ a month, which is possibly cheaper than private health insurance 

Jo xxxx


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

jojo said:


> As self employed - Autonomo, you do have to pay a monthly fee. I believe there is a reduced rate for the first year, rising to approx 250€ a month, which is possibly cheaper than private health insurance
> 
> Jo xxxx


For a family with children it might be, but for a couple, I doubt it. Ours will be going up to €120 per month for the two of us from the beginning of next year, and bear in mind my husband is over 65, and it's comprehensive cover with no co-payments.


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## seasideman (Nov 8, 2015)

Lynn R said:


> For a family with children it might be, but for a couple, I doubt it. Ours will be going up to €120 per month for the two of us from the beginning of next year, and bear in mind my husband is over 65, and it's comprehensive cover with no co-payments.


Confused here. Are we talking about private health insurance or tax. Also, i have read that as well as having the normal insurance, you should consider having private health insurance, what do people about that.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

seasideman said:


> Confused here. Are we talking about private health insurance or tax. Also, i have read that as well as having the normal insurance, you should consider having private health insurance, what do people about that.


Normal insurance??

Jo xxx


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

seasideman said:


> Confused here. Are we talking about private health insurance or tax. Also, i have read that as well as having the normal insurance, you should consider having private health insurance, what do people about that.


Jo was saying that the autonomo contribution (which would cover you and your wife for healthcare under the Spanish state system) could be cheaper than paying for private health insurance.

I said that is unlikely for a couple and quoted the cost of our private health insurance

Of course the autonomo SS contribution also includes other things like building up a Spanish pension entitlement (might be important if you are only 46 therefore unlikely to have enough NI contributions to get a full UK state pension as you now need 35 years of NI contributions).

We have chosen to keep our private health insurance on although we are both now covered in the state system as my husband is a UK state pensioner and I am covered as his dependant. I am likely to need a heart valve replacement operation at some time in the future and want to make sure when the time comes that I am not stuck on a waiting list, we read that waiting times for some kinds of state treatment in our area are long - particularly things like physiotherapy, and I'd like to await the result of a referendum as to whether the UK wants to stay in the EU or not, and if not, how that would affect the UK Government paying for the healthcare of expat pensioners, before I'd consider cancelling it, because as I now have a pre-existing condition and my husband is over 65 it would be impossible for us to get affordable private cover should we need it in the future.

I have to say, though, that everyone I know who has been treated in the Spanish state system is full of praise for it, and if I were involved in a serious accident or collapsed in the street, that's where I'd want to go, not to a private clinic.


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## seasideman (Nov 8, 2015)

Lynn R said:


> Jo was saying that the autonomo contribution (which would cover you and your wife for healthcare under the Spanish state system) could be cheaper than paying for private health insurance.
> 
> I said that is unlikely for a couple and quoted the cost of our private health insurance
> 
> ...


The pension thing you are spot on. You have just answered my second question. Was going to ask the difference between state hospital and private insurance. My wife has c o p d, so private insurance could be something we should look at.

I have heard the hospitals in Spain are excellent, which is great as the reason we are moving is due to my wife having early signs of c o p d, so moving will be much better for her health


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

seasideman said:


> The pension thing you are spot on. You have just answered my second question. Was going to ask the difference between state hospital and private insurance. My wife has c o p d, so private insurance could be something we should look at.
> 
> I have heard the hospitals in Spain are excellent, which is great as the reason we are moving is due to my wife having early signs of c o p d, so moving will be much better for her health


But the problem is that as your wife already has COPD that would have to be declared as a pre-existing condition when you apply for private health cover. That could mean that the insurance company would either exclude that from your policy (and they often use that to wriggle out of paying for other things as well by claiming that they relate to the pre-existing condition) or, if they will cover it, your premiums would be a lot higher.

Anyone with an existing condition, particularly a potentially serious one, would be a lot better off with the state system.

Remember too that with private health insurance, you would have to pay 100% of the cost of any medication she was prescribed (I believe there are some policies which cover medication but they are likely to be a lot more expensive and may not cover everything if expensive drugs are involved). As someone of working age, if you were paying SS contributions and covered by state healthcare you would still need to pay 40% of prescription costs - 50% if you earn between €18k and €100k per year.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

And COPD can be exacerbated by hot, humid and dusty conditions
Jo xxx


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## seasideman (Nov 8, 2015)

jojo said:


> And COPD can be exasperated by hot, humid and dusty conditions
> Jo xxx


This is what I thought. I researched it and my wife researched it and found many people have moved to spain with c o p d for improvement. Her nurse also said that spain was much better for her than the uk.

They said it was better air so would help her a lot. she is only at the very early stages at the moment


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

seasideman said:


> This is what I thought. I researched it and my wife researched it and found many people have moved to spain with c o p d for improvement. Her nurse also said that spain was much better for her than the uk.
> 
> They said it was better air so would help her a lot. she is only at the very early stages at the moment


Maybe try it for a holiday - both winter and summer first to make sure??

Jo xxx


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

the air is certainly cleaner

however - when my dad (who suffered from copd) died here, of a lung infection in the August, the doctor told me that deaths from lung problems & lung infections generally, were much higher in the summer here, than in the winter

we often have 90%+ humidity... add the heat in summer & that explains it


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## seasideman (Nov 8, 2015)

xabiachica said:


> the air is certainly cleaner
> 
> however - when my dad (who suffered from copd) died here, of a lung infection in the August, the doctor told me that deaths from lung problems & lung infections generally, were much higher in the summer here, than in the winter
> 
> we often have 90%+ humidity... add the heat in summer & that explains it


That is something to think about. I think another trip to her specialist is worth thinking about


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> the air is certainly cleaner
> 
> however - when my dad (who suffered from copd) died here, of a lung infection in the August, the doctor told me that deaths from lung problems & lung infections generally, were much higher in the summer here, than in the winter
> 
> we often have 90%+ humidity... add the heat in summer & that explains it


But you are right on the coast so it is quite likely to be more humid. We live inland and in the summer it is normal to see RH of of 40% or less although the temperatures can be up to 40° or even a little more. Our max so far has been 44° but then the RH was down to 25%. It can be much hotter (summer) and colder (winter) if you are at a lower altitude. We are at 723m and 40km to the north (alt 426m) of us, temperatures can be 7-8° higher in summer or 120km NW (Alt 103m) 10-12° higher.


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## seasideman (Nov 8, 2015)

baldilocks said:


> But you are right on the coast so it is quite likely to be more humid. We live inland and in the summer it is normal to see RH of of 40% or less although the temperatures can be up to 40° or even a little more. Our max so far has been 44° but then the RH was down to 25%. It can be much hotter (summer) and colder (winter) if you are at a lower altitude. We are at 723m and 40km to the north (alt 426m) of us, temperatures can be 7-8° higher in summer or 120km NW (Alt 103m) 10-12° higher.


my wife wants to move to albir, near Benidorm. Gives her the lifestyle she wants.


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## seasideman (Nov 8, 2015)

wow just read this Nearly half Spain's population suffers chronic medical problems, but expats praise national health system's 'unusual' efficiency


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

seasideman said:


> wow just read this Nearly half Spain's population suffers chronic medical problems, but expats praise national health system's 'unusual' efficiency


But what you have to remember is that the current elderly were brought up during times of quite considerable hardship, many of them display signs of childhood rickets. Others developed many of their chronic conditions during the subsequent years when the Francoist policy was to keep the poor, poor and subdued with little work or opportunities to pull themselves out of the terrible situations they found themselves in.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> But you are right on the coast so it is quite likely to be more humid. We live inland and in the summer it is normal to see RH of of 40% or less although the temperatures can be up to 40° or even a little more. Our max so far has been 44° but then the RH was down to 25%. It can be much hotter (summer) and colder (winter) if you are at a lower altitude. We are at 723m and 40km to the north (alt 426m) of us, temperatures can be 7-8° higher in summer or 120km NW (Alt 103m) 10-12° higher.





seasideman said:


> my wife wants to move to albir, near Benidorm. Gives her the lifestyle she wants.


also on the coast & pretty humid 

Almanaque meteorológicas de Albir Valenciana España


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Cough! Cough! Splutter! Splutter!

I have bad health currently and my doctor said it would help, cough!, cough!, if I could get a few months in some nice healthy place. He suggested Javea
Xabiachica, do you know anyone, cough!, wheeze!, - who has a place there to help me?
5/6 months should pick me up?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Using the website that Xabia introduced, here are our readings and as you can see, our humidity is much lower:

Tiempo Castillo de Locubín Andalucía España

compare with

http://www.weatheravenue.com/es/europe/es/valenciana/albir-tiempo.html

both current not historical.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> But what you have to remember is that the current elderly were brought up during times of quite considerable hardship, many of them display signs of childhood rickets. Others developed many of their chronic conditions during the subsequent years when the Francoist policy was to keep the poor, poor and subdued with little work or opportunities to pull themselves out of the terrible situations they found themselves in.


Also, I'd be a bit sceptical of the findings of any research sponsored by pharmaceutical companies who have a vested interest in identifying chronic conditions they can sell meds for.

I wonder what the comparative figure is in the UK. I bet most of us on here have a chronic medical condition of some sort - I get a bit of sciatica now and again. As it says in the article, "chronic" doesn't necessarily mean it's serious or life-threatening, just long-lasting.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Also, I'd be a bit sceptical of the findings of any research sponsored by pharmaceutical companies who have a vested interest in identifying chronic conditions they can sell meds for.
> 
> I wonder what the comparative figure is in the UK. I bet most of us on here have a chronic medical condition of some sort - I get a bit of sciatica now and again. As it says in the article, *"chronic" doesn't necessarily mean it's serious or life-threatening, just long-lasting.*


Chronic never does mean serious or life-threatening, it is only people's misuse of the word. Chronic - Greek Chronos = time


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> Chronic never does mean serious or life-threatening, it is only people's misuse of the word. Chronic - Greek Chronos = time


Well, diabetes is chronic but it's also serious and life-threatening. But I get your point.


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## kingsway1 (May 1, 2015)

Just as a matter of interest - my parents were resident in South Africa for many years. The NHS paid at least some amounts for my dads health care whilst there, despite his not having lived in Europe or the UK for many years. He was a war-pensioner, however, which might have some bearing n it...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kingsway1 said:


> Just as a matter of interest - my parents were resident in South Africa for many years. The NHS paid at least some amounts for my dads health care whilst there, despite his not having lived in Europe or the UK for many years. He was a war-pensioner, however, which might have some bearing n it...


that would be why

if you're in receipt of a state pension (or certain transportable benefits), & you live in a country with which the UK has an agreement, the UK picks up the healthcare bill


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