# Permanent Residence: LegalMan Help!



## USMAN24 (Jul 15, 2014)

I have been in a domestic partner relationship with my South African partner for 6 years now and we have a 4 year old child. We both decided to move to SA and My partner recently moved with our child and has secured employment. I have also secured a spousal visa valid for 2 years and can move to SA, however here are my concerns before I make the move.

As the bread winner, my income in the US pretty much supports both my spouse and child as my partners current job does not pay enough. I do not want to move without securing employment and am wary of the amount of time it will take to get a job in South africa coupled with wait times for work endorsments and re- application to change status in South Africa. I am aware permanent residency eliminates this hassle. 

Questions:

Should I apply for permanent residence based on my partner or my child at the mission in the US and still be able to use the temporary spousal visa to vist back and forth while waiting for outcome and continuing employment here. Is this considered a violation of conditions?

If I do decide to do this what is the waiting period to complete permanent residency process so i am aware how long I will still be in the US.?


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## noriki (Jul 14, 2014)

apply based on your child easier and faster and you can use ur TR in the waiting period. and my advise don't leave your job in US before you get your PR ,, in the main time you can sort the application for the PR and look for securing employment


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Noriki is right, however you can just as well apply for PR based on your relationship.


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## USMAN24 (Jul 15, 2014)

Thank you both for your quick responses. I might just go the child based route , it really looks less cumbersome opposed to gathering a lot of info for my partner and I for all the time we have been together.

If I apply based on my child this means my application will be based on section 27(g) of the immigration law, right? and if so will my child's US birth certificate with both parents name suffice when applying here at the consulate?


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

US birth certificate? Is your child "South African" yet?


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## USMAN24 (Jul 15, 2014)

Yes, My child is registered and has a SA passport , ID # and abridged South African birth certificate which all have my last name. 

The reason I mentioned the US birth certificate is because it has both parents names on it as opposed to the abridged SA certificate which does not.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

You must then apply using an unabridged South African birth certificate (I will check this, however).


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## pb00 (Jun 15, 2013)

Yep you'll need unabrigded, I just did the same with my son, it takes about 2 months for a unabrigded cert to arrive


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## USMAN24 (Jul 15, 2014)

pb00 said:


> Yep you'll need unabrigded, I just did the same with my son, it takes about 2 months for a unabrigded cert to arrive


pb00

Did you apply for PR and the unabridged Cert in South Africa or in the UK?


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## pb00 (Jun 15, 2013)

Uk for pr and we got unabridged in uk too


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## USMAN24 (Jul 15, 2014)

pb00 said:


> Uk for pr and we got unabridged in uk too




Thanks a lot. I think I will go this route and apply based on child then. 

Any advice on waiting times to get PR after application and if any other special requirments were requested by the SA mission?


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## 2fargone (Jun 14, 2011)

USMAN24 said:


> Thanks a lot. I think I will go this route and apply based on child then.
> 
> Any advice on waiting times to get PR after application and if any other special requirments were requested by the SA mission?


Hi USMAN24

The South African Embassy is pretty good at answering their phone. Call the D.C. or the NYC one they are the most helpful.

Immigrating to South Africa

The website says it would take 12-18 months for PR not sure if that's because they send it to Pretoria and there is a backlog. But I applied for a visa through the South African Embassy in D.C. and it took 10 days. Was very very fast.


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## pb00 (Jun 15, 2013)

we were told to expect up to 2 yrs but we can ask our attorneys to apply for a court order to help speed the process (legalman will be the authority there) and we had our docs vetted by attorneys so by the time I got to HA in London it took 15 mins to process!!


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## Jennybadenhorst (May 22, 2013)

Was there clarification that it is 27(g) of the act to apply through a South African child?


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Legislation says first degree of kinship, which means parents or children.


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## USMAN24 (Jul 15, 2014)

LegalMan said:


> Legislation says first degree of kinship, which means parents or children.


I hope the embassy in the US is familiar with the above legislation and hopefully have dealt with similar cases. Sometimes they tend to give conflicting information as experienced during my TR application. 


I sent an email this time around so I can have proof incase I run into any issues. 

I will post updates as the process continues.


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## USMAN24 (Jul 15, 2014)

@ LegalMAN

Update:

OK just got a response from the South African embassy in new york today via phone call regarding filing for permanent residence under section 27 (g) first step of kinship.

The lady said that I could not file under this section and there seems to be some confusion with people mentioning section 27(g) as parents of south african citizens. She said this section usually reserved for children of south african parents since technically the 'child" who is your sponsor, if you are the parent can not sign on your behalf.

I am confused now.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

They are, as SA missions so often are, WRONG!

It is children-parents either way, it is a "direct relative".


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## Skilled (May 10, 2011)

I am 100% sure they know that that PR category is applicable to you. They are just being arrogant and dismissive.


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## USMAN24 (Jul 15, 2014)

LegalMan said:


> They are, as SA missions so often are, WRONG!
> 
> It is children-parents either way, it is a "direct relative".


This is the precisely the situation I do not want to run into, seeing that these applications take quite a while to get approved, one does not want to submit and then get the application sent back. 

What is my next course of action

Do I go ahead and file application, print the section from the immigration act that applies ?

Do I get a lawyer involved?

Do I call back and clarify issue, since the embassy are the party that recieve the intial application so they don't send back?


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Call them again and quote the Act verbatim. In any event, by law they MUST accept and process your application (or at least send it to Pretoria for PR to be processed).


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## 2fargone (Jun 14, 2011)

USMAN24 said:


> This is the precisely the situation I do not want to run into, seeing that these applications take quite a while to get approved, one does not want to submit and then get the application sent back.
> 
> What is my next course of action
> 
> ...


Please call the D.C. office and speak to someone there!


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## Yasmean (Jul 29, 2014)

USMAN24 said:


> @ LegalMAN
> 
> Update:
> 
> ...


They are definitely wrong, as a friend of mine got her permanent residency from being a parent of a South African child after her husband divorced her.


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## USMAN24 (Jul 15, 2014)

LegalMan said:


> Call them again and quote the Act verbatim. In any event, by law they MUST accept and process your application (or at least send it to Pretoria for PR to be processed).


Took your advice and called the Washington office again today. This time I quoted the act and told them what I was told by new yourk office the previous day. The response I got this time around and I am paraphrasing was that........

"well you shouldn't worry too much about what we are telling you here cause what we actually do is just recieve the application and forward to Pretoria so make sure you state the section you are applying under"

Go figure????

At this point I am gonna apply for my child's unabridged, wait to get it then apply under that section stating it clearly in the application.


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## USMAN24 (Jul 15, 2014)

Yasmean said:


> They are definitely wrong, as a friend of mine got her permanent residency from being a parent of a South African child after her husband divorced her.


My situation is slightly different, I am still with my spouse and can go that route, but as others have adviced here would like to apply where there is less paper work and less stress if possible. 

Did your friend apply here in the US or in South Africa. I am trying to guage what the process is gonna entail from here?


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

USMAN24 said:


> Took your advice and called the Washington office again today. This time I quoted the act and told them what I was told by new yourk office the previous day. The response I got this time around and I am paraphrasing was that........
> 
> "well you shouldn't worry too much about what we are telling you here cause what we actually do is just recieve the application and forward to Pretoria so make sure you state the section you are applying under"
> 
> ...


May I say, even though I am quite formal on this forum:

*LOL!!*


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## SayansiScope (Apr 19, 2014)

LegalMan said:


> May I say, even though I am quite formal on this forum:
> 
> *LOL!!*


Hi LegalMan,

I don't want to sound spooky here but I would like you to clarify what the act/law says on the following scenarios:

*Scenario 1:* 
You obtain a PR based on the spousal relationship (sect 27xx) and for some bad/good reasons (i.e., death of partner, misunderstandings etc) the marriage falls apart. 

What will be your PR status afterwards...will you be required to apply for another permit/visa or your status will fall back to the previous one before marriage/spousal relationship by default?

*Scenario 2:* 
You obtain a PR based on the child (sect 26xx) and God forbid, you loose the child through death...

Likewise, what will be your PR status afterwards...will you be required to apply for another permit/visa or your status will fall back to the previous one before the PR by default?

Based on the above; which one is the best PR route one has to choose if both options are available and why....

Regards,
Sciencescope.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

PR through spouse - required to prove relationship still exists 2 years after receiving PR. If relationship ends, PR is lost.

PR through child - if child dies, you still have PR.


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## Skilled (May 10, 2011)

LegalMan said:


> PR through spouse - *required to prove relationship still exists 2 years after receiving PR*. If relationship ends, PR is lost.
> 
> PR through child - if child dies, you still have PR.


How does one do this at the moment? VFS? Home Affairs? What is required to submit?


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Good question. I assume VFS.

Some things are not possible to do right now, e.g. passport landings (moving a valid visa from an old to a new passport). VFS doesn't accept some things that Home Affairs also doesn't accept.

It's a weird time.


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## SayansiScope (Apr 19, 2014)

LegalMan said:


> PR through spouse - required to prove relationship still exists 2 years after receiving PR. If relationship ends, PR is lost.
> 
> PR through child - if child dies, you still have PR.


Thanks LegalMan,

Just a follow-up question, is it possible for one to switch from a PR based on spouse to a PR based on a child. If yes, do one has to follow the normal/usual change of status procedure? :amen:


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Switch = no. You can never switch visas. You have to apply for any visa.


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## yojimbo (Aug 3, 2014)

*how long you waited for PR?*



pb00 said:


> we were told to expect up to 2 yrs but we can ask our attorneys to apply for a court order to help speed the process (legalman will be the authority there) and we had our docs vetted by attorneys so by the time I got to HA in London it took 15 mins to process!!


 How exactly it worked and any idea of cost involved? I'm in similar situation and do not really want to wait for years to hear an outcome. When you saying "to process " you mean that they only took your application in in 15 min or that you got our PR completed? 
If it only speed up application entry than no real speed of processing is involved. What sort of courts and attorneys we talking here?
Any info will be greatly appreciated.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

I cannot quote costs on this forum.

Timeline, roughly, is 1-2 months for a decision following our demand letters to Home Affairs, and maximum 6 months if Home Affairs doesn't grant a decision until a court order is received.


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## hopeful1986 (Feb 5, 2014)

skilled,

i dont know the procedure for the exact application you need, but i do know that VFS accepts all applications. i was turned away from home affairs in CBD BEFORE VFS even opened when all i wanted to do was collect an application form and make an inquiry and was told to refer anything i need to VFS cos basically DHA will no longer deal directly with foreigners. the VFS system is electronic, i've got a partially completed application there. not sure if you fill out the form and then submit the docs in person as obviously a pdf of a medical clearance is of little use to anyone. you pay VFS directly too.

was this your question? go to their website (where i have spent many hours) there's a load more info there than on the DHA website and their call center will answer your call in about 7min, even if their knowledge of the act they are trying to apparently enforce is limited.


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## USMAN24 (Jul 15, 2014)

UPDATE:

My spouse requested for unabridged birth certificate for my child in SA and come to find out they changed the middle name to the first name and "somehow" erased the other first names of my child, so now the middle name is the first name and the other names have disappeared from the system. AMAZING!!!

All this stemming from a simple request made about a year ago to correct the spelling of the middle name. We are now getting the run around saying it might take 3 months or so to get issue resolved before unabridged certificate can be requested. I haven't even started the PR application and already road blocks, might have to switch to PR based on spouse. 

I do have a question though, I was going through the docs on the VFS website ( though I am aware my application will be at the consulate) for PR and can see that a finger print is also requested now.

Did anyone have to do this before or after submitting the application while outside SA?


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## 2fargone (Jun 14, 2011)

USMAN24 said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> My spouse requested for unabridged birth certificate for my child in SA and come to find out they changed the middle name to the first name and "somehow" erased the other first names of my child, so now the middle name is the first name and the other names have disappeared from the system. AMAZING!!!
> 
> ...



OMG what as hassle. I really feel for you I had such issues with HA.

When I applied for TR in Washington, D.C. I had to have FBI Clearance and submit fingerprints this was a few years ago. So yes I had to do this.


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## USMAN24 (Jul 15, 2014)

2fargone said:


> OMG what as hassle. I really feel for you I had such issues with HA.
> 
> When I applied for TR in Washington, D.C. I had to have FBI Clearance and submit fingerprints this was a few years ago. So yes I had to do this.


I didn't have to do a FBI clearance for my TR but only got police clearance letters from states I have lived in for the past 10 years. 

I believe the finger printing for PR is in accordance with the new law or requirements for capturing all applicants bio-metric information so I am wondering if this would be required for PR when applying here in the states.

Probably have to call the consulate again. WooHOoo!


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## USMAN24 (Jul 15, 2014)

@ all

Additional question. If I go the PR via spousal relationship then will it be a problem because my spouse and child are already in SA and I am still here in terms of any possible interviews that will take place.

Its not a problem for her to fly in for the interview but of course will be expensive.


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