# Owning and driving a car.



## redbourn (May 8, 2013)

I have lived in Portugal for 18 months, have an NIF and am registered with the local freguesia.

Haven't yet bothered to get a car here, but there are so many inexpensive used ones for sale that I'm contemplating buying one.

I have a UK driver's license (with the EU stars) that's valid until November 2017.

Please let me know what the procedure is if I buy a car.

Thanks,

Michael


----------



## In 2 bikes (Apr 18, 2013)

we have bought from a dealer and from a private person. In the case of the dealer I had to show NIF, Residency papers, and passport.......oh and pay. It is normal for the dealer to send off the log book and have it put in your name. This usually cost 65 -ish euros. You will need to arrange insurance and probably present cover to the dealer before he/she lets the car out. The insurance companies we have used have recognised our UK no claims bonus. This was done once without the actual need to show proof - just took our word for it ( Fidelidade ). The dealer will give you a copy of the log book and papers that an insurance company may need to be satisfied you are entitled to the vehicle.

When we bought privately we saw the car on OLX.pt and arranged to meet the seller via the 'contact buyer via e-mail' part of the advert. We agreed the price and we both physically went together to the agent to put my name on the log book and take his off. The agency in this case was, again, part of Fidelidade insurance. The cost of title transfer is the same 65-ish euros and in this case it is normal for both parties to go halves. You will need to show the agency the same 'life' papers as for the case of the dealer. Fidelidade are everywhere but not all are agencies to transfer log book details.

Once you have the log book posted back to you in your name, to your home, you will see the car and its details, plus road tax ( I.U.C. ) under your personal details within the autoridade finance portal on the web.

To tax the car you need to look it up on the portal and print off the bar code document that relates to I.U.C. and your car and take it to the post office. They scan the bar code and you hand over your cash ( cash only ). The tax runs for a year and is very cheap. This normally runs yearly from the month of the car's initial registration

M.O.T.'s are done yearly at your local IMTT testing station and you get a certificate. Both this and the insurance certificate have a small square you cut out and must display in your right windscreen.

You don't have a tax disc but must keep the receipt from the post office in the car with all the other original documents including the log book.

You need to register your U.K. licence at the local I.M.T.T. office. This is not ' exchange' but just a registration of you and your licence with the authorities. It is illegal to drive a PT plated vehicle on a UK licence without doing so.

You must have your licence with you whilst you drive and in all honesty you should have your passport too, but a photo copy of the main page would do......if ever asked by plod.

When it comes to selling, make sure your buyer and yourself update the log book together otherwise you will be liable for all the fines etc that they accrue.


----------



## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

If you mean what do you do about a licence:

I was told by the DVLA that one can drive on a UK licence in PT for as long as desired but IMTT have told me otherwise and just to confuse matters further, I was recently stopped by the GNR who looked at my UK licence and told me he was going to give me a €30 fine for not having a PT licence......... I stood my ground and told him he (A) had to provide me with an officer who spoke fluent English and (B) I wouldn't accept his fine because DVLA had assured me I could drive on my (pink paper) UK licence.

We had a bit of a barney and I flatly refused to accept his argument or fine and then my (Portuguese) passenger got involved and also started kaking him out and in the end, the officer just threw his arms up in the air and told us to burger off and leave him in peace. 

Now it gets even more confusing.......... In theory, you can take your UK licence to pretty much any driving school here and they'll charge you about €40-50 and change it for a PT licence and I've also tried to do that recently but was told the IMTT are in the throes of changing the system and as part of that, the driving schools have been temporarily frozen out of the process. 

I've also been to the Leiria IMTT office to try to do it myself and found them as much use as a chocolate teapot. 

Quite honestly, I reckon the best thing you can do is to ask at one of your local driving schools and see what they have to say about what they can and cannot do and if they can still change UK licences for PT ones, I'd have them do it for you.

If you mean what do you do about car registration:

2 bikes has covered it.


----------



## In 2 bikes (Apr 18, 2013)

Portugal admin at its best once again..... I've just gone to www.IMTT.pt which, as we know, is the equivalent of the DVLA and their web site is closed / under construction.

TM you don't have to x/c your UK licence for a PT one so long as your UK licence is still within validity dates for the class of vehicle you are using. I think your problem is that the good ol' pink one doesn't carry a valid photo ( which is the thing that needs updating every 10 years ). 

The pink licence, and as far as I remember the green one too, is still valid in the U.K. and your U.K. driving authority is always valid until age, health or the courts deny you. In other words even if you lost your pink licence down a drain and didn't ever apply for a replacement you are still authorised to drive.....in the U.K. But your pink licence isn't E.U. compliant and you then become at the mercy of your host country. Yes, you have the authority to drive in PT, but you realistically can't prove it without a correct licence.

You have to let go ol' chum......get a new one.


----------



## redbourn (May 8, 2013)

In 2 bikes said:


> we have bought from a dealer and from a private person. In the case of the dealer I had to show NIF, Residency papers, and passport.......oh and pay. It is normal for the dealer to send off the log book and have it put in your name. This usually cost 65 -ish euros. You will need to arrange insurance and probably present cover to the dealer before he/she lets the car out. The insurance companies we have used have recognised our UK no claims bonus. This was done once without the actual need to show proof - just took our word for it ( Fidelidade ). The dealer will give you a copy of the log book and papers that an insurance company may need to be satisfied you are entitled to the vehicle.
> 
> When we bought privately we saw the car on OLX.pt and arranged to meet the seller via the 'contact buyer via e-mail' part of the advert. We agreed the price and we both physically went together to the agent to put my name on the log book and take his off. The agency in this case was, again, part of Fidelidade insurance. The cost of title transfer is the same 65-ish euros and in this case it is normal for both parties to go halves. You will need to show the agency the same 'life' papers as for the case of the dealer. Fidelidade are everywhere but not all are agencies to transfer log book details.
> 
> ...


You need to register your U.K. licence at the local I.M.T.T. office. This is not ' exchange' but just a registration of you and your licence with the authorities. It is illegal to drive a PT plated vehicle on a UK licence without doing so.

Thanks for all the info! 

I live in Aveiro and thinking of buying a run around car from a friend.

Right now I live in the center of town but am thinking of renting a house just outside of town and growing my own fruit and vegetables.

So no driving test?

Michael


----------



## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

In 2 bikes said:


> Portugal admin at its best once again..... I've just gone to www.IMTT.pt which, as we know, is the equivalent of the DVLA and their web site is closed / under construction.
> 
> TM you don't have to x/c your UK licence for a PT one so long as your UK licence is still within validity dates for the class of vehicle you are using. I think your problem is that the good ol' pink one doesn't carry a valid photo ( which is the thing that needs updating every 10 years ).
> 
> ...


I'd be happy to but IMTT won't accept my old pink paper licence because it has a tear or two along the folds and DVLA won't give me a new licence because I don't have a UK address. 

Gotta love bureaucracy. LOL


----------



## redbourn (May 8, 2013)

This is what I have ..

- justpaste.it

Michael


----------



## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Another aspect you need to consider is where to buy from. 

My advice would be to only buy from a well established BRANDED dealer because they're much more likely to stand by their guarantee and behave in an honourable manner. 

More especially, DON'T ever buy from Seven Sport in Condeixa a Nova near Coimbra who have the site at SevenSport - Carros Usados, Automoveis Usados em Coimbra because they DO NOT honour their guarantee or behave in an honourable manner and in my case, striped me up for more than a €1k.


----------



## In 2 bikes (Apr 18, 2013)

redbourn said:


> This is what I have ..
> 
> - justpaste.it
> 
> Michael


You have group B and B+E entitlement which is car and car + trailer. Therefore no further test required BUT your photo expires in 2017, ( 10 year validity ), and your licence must have been re-applied for when you were 70 in any case . The DVLA should have automatically sent this application to your 'licence' address, which would obviously have been the old UK one. I seem to remember this process is done every 3 years thereafter. 

I would venture to suggest that it would be better for you Michael to completely exchange' your UK licence for a PT one and deal with the IMTT in Aveiro, ( nice city by the way ), unless you still have surreptitious means of dealing with the UK's DVLA at an English address you purport to live at.

As a side bar, you can renew your 10 year photo via the internet if you look up www.gov.uk . They use your passport photo and so long as your passport has a certain period of time left on it, it is all done in the mail..............to your ' U.K. ' driving licence address.


----------



## redbourn (May 8, 2013)

travelling-man said:


> Another aspect you need to consider is where to buy from.
> 
> My advice would be to only buy from a well established BRANDED dealer because they're much more likely to stand by their guarantee and behave in an honourable manner.
> 
> More especially, DON'T ever buy from Seven Sport in Condeixa a Nova near Coimbra who have the site at SevenSport - Carros Usados, Automoveis Usados em Coimbra because they DO NOT honour their guarantee or behave in an honourable manner and in my case, striped me up for more than a €1k.


Thanks for the tips!

Michael


----------



## redbourn (May 8, 2013)

In 2 bikes said:


> You have group B and B+E entitlement which is car and car + trailer. Therefore no further test required BUT your photo expires in 2017, ( 10 year validity ), and your licence must have been re-applied for when you were 70 in any case . The DVLA should have automatically sent this application to your 'licence' address, which would obviously have been the old UK one. I seem to remember this process is done every 3 years thereafter.
> 
> I would venture to suggest that it would be better for you Michael to completely exchange' your UK licence for a PT one and deal with the IMTT in Aveiro, ( nice city by the way ), unless you still have surreptitious means of dealing with the UK's DVLA at an English address you purport to live at.
> 
> As a side bar, you can renew your 10 year photo via the internet if you look up www.gov.uk . They use your passport photo and so long as your passport has a certain period of time left on it, it is all done in the mail..............to your ' U.K. ' driving licence address.


Thanks.

Is it just a straight exchange? Any disadvantages to it?

BTW - I was told that any registered driving school can handle the car ownership paperwork.

I am very happy with Aveiro. Going to visit Braga for the first time next week and will be spending two nights in the center of Porto (13€ a night!) airbnb - at the end of the month on my way to Cork for a few nights.

Michael


----------



## wink (Aug 23, 2011)

Your statement regarding your experience with your car dealer may be factual, however, should he decide to sue for libel, it could prove very time consuming and expensive. I heard of a lady who reported her solicitor for malpractice to the PT law society and the solicitor sued her for libel, crazy but this is Portugal!


----------



## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Wink,

I assume you mean I could be sued for my statement that Seven Sport striped me up for more than €1k by refusing to honour their guarantee when my car went wrong within the guarantee period?

In which case, it's only libel if my statement is untrue but I used their complaint book and my complaint was upheld......... therefore, my statement is true.


----------



## wink (Aug 23, 2011)

Good news that your complaint was upheld, so you got your money back?


----------



## redbourn (May 8, 2013)

travelling-man said:


> Wink,
> 
> I assume you mean I could be sued for my statement that Seven Sport striped me up for more than €1k by refusing to honour their guarantee when my car went wrong within the guarantee period?
> 
> In which case, it's only libel if my statement is untrue but I used their complaint book and my complaint was upheld......... therefore, my statement is true.


The complaint book is wonderful!

I fought with Vueling Airlines for weeks and was getting nowhere.

Then somebody told me about the complaints book.

I sent Vueling a copy of what I intended to put in the complaints book and they paid me back more than I had requested within 24 hours!


----------



## In 2 bikes (Apr 18, 2013)

redbourn said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Is it just a straight exchange? Any disadvantages to it?
> 
> ...


You'll have to visit IMTT to find out more. There are no disadvantages but i would keep a photocopy of your UK licence as it is not unknown to magically 'lose' some categories of entitlement.

As for driving schools, I'm not aware of them handling car ownership papers but they have been available to use for process of updating IMTT as regards to your UK licence status. But I believe it was mentioned earlier the driving schools have been put on hold and cannot offer this service now.


----------



## redbourn (May 8, 2013)

In 2 bikes said:


> You'll have to visit IMTT to find out more. There are no disadvantages but i would keep a photocopy of your UK licence as it is not unknown to magically 'lose' some categories of entitlement.
> 
> As for driving schools, I'm not aware of them handling car ownership papers but they have been available to use for process of updating IMTT as regards to your UK licence status. But I believe it was mentioned earlier the driving schools have been put on hold and cannot offer this service now.


Thanks again.


----------



## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

wink said:


> Good news that your complaint was upheld, so you got your money back?


The way it works is you fill out the complaint book and (in time) your complain is either upheld or not but that decision does not get you your money back....... it just says you are entitled to win the case (or not) should you then take them to court. 

So you still have to go to the expense and trouble of pursuing the case. 

Frankly, it wasn't worth the hassle of doing that but I do make the point of naming and shaming them whenever I can and every time someone Googles the name of Seven Sport in condeixa a nova they see my comments about how they striped me up for over €1k when they refused to honour the guarantee.


----------



## wink (Aug 23, 2011)

Pity there is no small claims court in Portugal. I bought an expensive camera online from a UK company and when they refused to accept that it was faulty on delivery, I made a claim online to the small claims court, which was very straightforward, and was awarded the full cost of the camera plus postage and the court application costs.


----------



## redbourn (May 8, 2013)

wink said:


> Pity there is no small claims court in Portugal. I bought an expensive camera online from a UK company and when they refused to accept that it was faulty on delivery, I made a claim online to the small claims court, which was very straightforward, and was awarded the full cost of the camera plus postage and the court application costs.


Glad that you got that result!

But when I just threatened Vueling Airlines with the Complaint's Book they paid me more than I asked for almost immediately.

I wish they had had the Complaint's Book in the UK when I lived there.


----------



## jorge123 (May 12, 2015)

I guess when you purchase a vehicle in Portugal you might need to make sure you are not buying a "used and abused" ex rental car.


----------



## redbourn (May 8, 2013)

I was going to buy a cheap car just as a run around but I friend of mine recently spent more or repairs than he paid for the car.

It's been suggested that I buy a two year old car on payments, that has a three or four year warranty and maybe that's the way to go.


----------



## jorge123 (May 12, 2015)

Is always best to purchase a used car that is still under the manufacturers warranty. Car Makers are more scared of bad publicity that car dealers.


----------

