# I guess this is why we have homeowner's insurance.



## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

I've been wondering lately why we carry homeowner's insurance. Sure we have earthquakes and at times some serious winds. Walls can fall...

But we are in the process of having a wall built. Nothing all that big. Less than the 5 meters we are allowed. We have contracted with an engineer (who we have worked with before) , who has hired a 4 person crew (who he has worked with before).

Yesterday I went out to see how everyone was doing and there was a guy lying near the street moaning in pain, holding his hand and it looked like one of his fingers was bleeding. The other 3 people on the 'crew' were paying him no attention. (Actually the 20 something kid/guy was kind of frail and to me seemed like a whiner). But - I told my wife who gave him a bag of ice. We called the engineer (who had already been informed). (Turns out the guy tripped while moving a rock and when he fell the heavy rock he was carrying fell on his finger). 

The engineer came, asked the guy to try to wiggle his fingers and declared nothing was broken. They let the guy lay there holding his hand for the next 3 or so hours and then they all left for the day.
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We have a close relationship with a lot of the people who do work for us. I will only ask someone to do something I (an old man) cannot do myself. And sometimes I can do things they can not. 

But I know that people around here are generally dependent on continual work. As far as I know there is no unemployment ins. like thing here. And - if someone under our direct employ were to be hurt I would feel a responsibility. I believe our AXA homeowner's insurance would pay some sort of amount to a worker based on some sort of national average daily wage - which probably has no relevance where we live, but...

So - based on yesterday's experience - I feel a little bit better about re-upping our $700/yr (or so) AXA homeowner's policy. (Which is a LOT less than we were paying in the US).


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

If you hire a contractor, the contractor is responsible for paying socio ( medical coverage) for his workers and charging you for that coverage. 

No way I'd pay $700 US for a homeowners policy in Mexico, with a cement house that can't burn down and cracks, etc that might result from an earthquake being cheaper to repair out of pocket probably than the deductible.
I've never had a homeowners policy here. At what you're paying, I would have spent $8400 by now without one claim.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I own (just bought this year) an apartment in a "condo" building (all apartments are owned by individuals, common areas are owned by the condo association, with everyone having use rights). The association charges a monthly charge that covers all sorts of things, including some insurance. When the outside of the building got hurricane storm damage, there was an insurance claim. 

I am wondering whether I need any additional insurance. I believe that if, for example, my hot water heater developed a leak and flooded the place and water dripped down and ruined the ceiling of the apartment(s) below me, I'd have to pay. (That happened to another owner in the building, and I happened to be in the condo office when he was there making a scene about it, but ineffectually).

Or if I set my apartment on fire accidentally and burnt up all the ones above me, I guess I might be liable - who knows? 

For drywall repairs and such from leaks I think I could just cover that out of pocket. I live here full time (unlike the other owner with the leak) so I'd catch any plumbing disaster before too much damage could be done. I'm not worried about hurricanes, the apartments had basically no damage from a cat 5 direct hit a few years back - no broken windows. I have storm shutters. But fire could be something that it might make sense to pay for cover against, depending on the extent of my possible liability. 

I will get around to asking my lawyer at some point, but anyone here want to give amateur advice?


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

surabi said:


> If you hire a contractor, the contractor is responsible for paying socio ( medical coverage) for his workers and charging you for that coverage.
> 
> No way I'd pay $700 US for a homeowners policy in Mexico, with a cement house that can't burn down and cracks, etc that might result from an earthquake being cheaper to repair out of pocket probably than the deductible.
> I've never had a homeowners policy here. At what you're paying, I would have spent $8400 by now without one claim.


We all have different situations. Right near the top of the reasons for our having homeowner's insurance is in case a part-time worker were hurt (or worse). 

While it is true that a lot of our house consists of thick cement walls (with no sheet rock or wooden studs), we do have perhaps a couple hundred large 'vigas de cedro'. Over the years we have replaced ONE viga - and it was non-trivial. We inherited a 'chefs kitchen' imported from Europe and all the exterior windows and doors come from Europe as well. I don't recall an appraiser ever actually setting foot in the house. We have, from time to time, had people stop by to confirm that we actually live at this address... 

How much did you pay for insurance in Canada ? In our area of the US most houses had homeowner's, flood and windstorm insurance. Put that on top of property tax and $700 is a drop in the bucket.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

eastwind said:


> I own (just bought this year) an apartment in a "condo" building (all apartments are owned by individuals, common areas are owned by the condo association, with everyone having use rights). The association charges a monthly charge that covers all sorts of things, including some insurance. When the outside of the building got hurricane storm damage, there was an insurance claim.
> 
> I am wondering whether I need any additional insurance. I believe that if, for example, my hot water heater developed a leak and flooded the place and water dripped down and ruined the ceiling of the apartment(s) below me, I'd have to pay. (That happened to another owner in the building, and I happened to be in the condo office when he was there making a scene about it, but ineffectually).
> 
> ...


I am not a lawyer - but I believe the laws governing 'condos' (both vertical and horizontal) vary from state to state.

Here is link to what appears to be the rules covering Quintana Roo.
http://documentos.congresoqroo.gob.mx/leyes/L69-XV-16082018-741.pdf
(If you need it Microsoft Word should be able to translate it)

Regarding hurricanes - we have lived through several - including some very strong ones. But, for us, the worst storm was maybe a Cat 3 which had associated with it some large tornados. One tornado came right up our canal and took off a chunk of our second story. We went without power for 2 weeks after that storm. They re-wrote a lot of building codes and that is what led to laws requiring generators to be installed in every gas station and grocery store...


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Thanks for the link!


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

MangoTango said:


> How much did you pay for insurance in Canada ? In our area of the US most houses had homeowner's, flood and windstorm insurance.


I honestly can't remember what my homeowner's insurance was in Canada, and I don't have paperwork on it anymore, as I sold that house 11 years ago. Of course, in Canada it was required to carry insurance. Even if it hadn't been, I would have been an idiot not to have it- my house was a 100 year old wooden balloon-framed structure that would have gone up like a pile of dry kindling in a fire.

But I'm not in the habit of comparing what I paid for things in Canada with what I spend living in Mexico. If I were to compare what I paid in Canada for health coverage, which was zero, to what I pay for private health insurance in Mexico, it's 3000 times more.

Some things are more expensive here, some less.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

surabi said:


> …
> If I were to compare what I paid in Canada for health coverage, which was zero, to what I pay for private health insurance in Mexico, it's 3000 times more.
> …


I assume what you paid in Canada wasn't exactly zero. 3000 times 0 is still 0.


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

TundraGreen said:


> I assume what you paid in Canada wasn't exactly zero. 3000 times 0 is still 0.


Good catch  Yes, I paid zero in Canada, but 0 times anything is indeed zero. So let's pretend I paid $1.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

So I have a couple (few) questions.
Do most (maybe all) Canadians go with the 'free' government healthcare ? Are there other paid options ? Ignoring quality for a moment - just how timely is the service under this free plan (does the free plan have a name ?)
Based on the math mentioned above - are we to assume that you pay 60,000 pesos for your private health insurance here in Mexico ? How does that coverage compare to your free coverage in Canada ?


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

MangoTango said:


> So I have a couple (few) questions.
> Do most (maybe all) Canadians go with the 'free' government healthcare ? Are there other paid options ? Ignoring quality for a moment - just how timely is the service under this free plan (does the free plan have a name ?)
> Based on the math mentioned above - are we to assume that you pay 60,000 pesos for your private health insurance here in Mexico ? How does that coverage compare to your free coverage in Canada ?


Canada has socialized medicine, but it is administered by the individual provinces, so has different names in each province. In B.C it's B.C. Med, in Ontario it's OHIP. Yes, all Canadians who maintain the required amount of time each year are covered under these plans. You don't "choose" a plan.

It isn't free for everyone- it is based on your income. But even those who pay don't pay a lot, not like the outrageous premiums in the US.

And it isn't like govt. medical in Mexico, where you only can go to the govt. hospitals- in Canada all hospitals and doctors operate under the Canadian medical system. So it isn't a matter of getting better quality care with some different plan.

I never had any issues seeing a doctor when I lived there, or getting good care, but in some areas there are waiting lists to see doctors and some doctors have so many patients, they don't take new ones.

What I don't like about it that much is that you can't just make an appointment with a specialist, like you can in Mexico. You have to go to your GP and get a referral, and you can wait months to see a specialist.

I don't know if you can take out additional private coverage- never looked into it, and certainly don't know anyone who has done that.

I actually let my private health insurance in Mexico go this year- the premiums are just way too high for me at my age (71), and if I needed to use it, it had a $2000 deductible. I had it for 5 or 6 years, but never had to use it. I'm really healthy, have no medical issues, never go to the doctor and just keep my fingers crossed nothing super expensive to deal with happens to me.

As I get older, I may end up moving back to Canada if I do have health issues. Happens with a lot of expats.


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