# The eternal debate, buy V rent



## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Yip its a toughey

Let's be honest. If you have no experience living abroad etc and need to work there's not really a debate- you MUST rent. 

However, if like ourselves we have sufficient income without work, cash sum as well etc- the question gets more interesting. 

Renting is of course a safer option BUT if you are laying out around € 700/800 a month for a place you can buy for 80 k you may feel that after 4/5 years you will have laid out about 40k in rent whilst if you bought it and took a bath for about 20k on sale price in 5 years time you would still be ahead 


Decisions decisions...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Rabbitcat said:


> Yip its a toughey
> 
> Let's be honest. If you have no experience living abroad etc and need to work there's not really a debate- you MUST rent.
> 
> ...


So much depends on so many things. Interestingly, two of my friends who had been renting in Spain for 5 years have both just bought. The market, according to them is looking ok and they both now feel the time is right for them to put down roots. They've tried it, liked it and want to stay.

If you have a UK property, IMO, you should keep that, rent it out and offset the rental against a spanish rental. you'd probably make a bit and you always have a "get out" if something bad happens, or even if you just dont like it.

The problem with buying in Spain is that its not cheap to buy or sell and although things might be picking up, there is still much uncertainty within the EU and of course, as one gets older, one might prefer/need to be near family and friends

Jo xxx


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Rabbitcat said:


> Yip its a toughey
> 
> Let's be honest. If you have no experience living abroad etc and need to work there's not really a debate- you MUST rent.
> 
> ...


Hi Rabbitcat - You said it yourself - you can afford it; you've tested the water, to say the least. You would be stupid not to buy.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Well we have saw two areas we really like- VERY similar to a place we have owned in abroad for the last 9 years so living there and abroad in general wont be a culture shock. Will continue to check/ recheck both areas until wifey decides which one WE prefer!! Then will weigh up rental V purchase.

Bloody great having this forum to gather info and bounce ideas


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

We bought, seemed daft not to, having thankfully cut the umbilical cord with the U.K., completely sold everything there, here is now our home.


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

After much thought and a bit of looking around, we will probably buy a 1 or 2 bed apartment here and use that for an income (bonus) on top of the works pension and if we ever did need to come back for whatever reason we would have something to come to without having to sell in Spain as a matter of urgency. We will probably also buy a townhouse or something small in an area we like, currently Torrox / Velez Malaga region.

Have you seen much around the 80K mark? Are they townhouses and what sort of area.

My retirement date is end of march and paperwork through..........

Everything now seems to be moving up a gear.

Cheers Rabbitcat

Roy


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Hepa said:


> We bought, seemed daft not to, having thankfully cut the umbilical cord with the U.K., completely sold everything there, here is now our home.


Well done. I don't get the obsession with keeping something in the UK when it's done as somewhere to go back to if things don't work out. Just rent while sorting something permanent out.

A UK property is a good investment (for rental and capital gain) but that's it, and if your whole life is based in Spain then being a landlord in the UK can be a bit of a pain in the rear end.

If you think you are going to be in Spain for the next plenty of years, and if you think you have found the home you will be happy to live in, buy it. And if that means selling your UK place, sell it. Life will be a bit less complicated that way.

But, if renting out your UK place will pay the agent's administration fees for management (so you get hassled less), pay maintenance and replacement costs for wear and tear, and still leave enough money to pay off a mortgage on your place in Spain, then it's worth looking at. Then, in 20 years, you'll own the UK place and it will have paid for your place in Spain. Assuming you have no mortgage on the UK place, of course.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Roy C said:


> After much thought and a bit of looking around, we will probably buy a 1 or 2 bed apartment here and use that for an income (bonus) on top of the works pension and if we ever did need to come back for whatever reason we would have something to come to without having to sell in Spain as a matter of urgency. We will probably also buy a townhouse or something small in an area we like, currently Torrox / Velez Malaga region.
> 
> Have you seen much around the 80K mark? Are they townhouses and what sort of area.
> 
> ...


Yes Roy for the sort of property we are after there are plenty to chose from on Kyero, Thinkspain etc. We are after decent townhouse in an inland or mountain village and there seem plenty available plus we will go in with a 15% lower offer as its def a buyers market


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## Gazeebo (Jan 23, 2015)

Rabbitcat said:


> Yes Roy for the sort of property we are after there are plenty to chose from on Kyero, Thinkspain etc. We are after decent townhouse in an inland or mountain village and there seem plenty available plus we will go in with a 15% lower offer as its def a buyers market


If you would be happy to lose all your investment, then why not buy? You have to take your chances and not look back. Otherwise rent for several months to make sure it's right for you.

Perhaps it will be a buyers market for a few years - perhaps not. Go for it if you would have no regrets and could go back to Britain with no regrets and somewhere to live.

I know how you feel, as we were in your place last year. Wish you all the best for your decision.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

I certainly would not be happy to lose everything nor do I believe I would.

I have owned abroad for years and am very aware its not like at home whereby you make money on your investment. 

However as I have set out if in 5 or so years I was to be able to sell if that's what I wanted and I took a hit comparable to rent I would have out laid I don't consider that a loss.

Life is a gamble send whilst one shouldn't be careless or plain daft, you do have to take chances at times. Time will tell which way we decide to go


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

Well said Rabbitcat


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## SteveScot (Feb 11, 2013)

If it's somewhere that you want to put down roots and live in, then the investment angle is moot. Folk spend large sums on fancy cars (many of which would cost more than my house in Spain did) without them being a good investment. Sure, it's nice if what you buy holds its' value, or increases, but rent is and always has been 'dead money' to me.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SteveScot said:


> If it's somewhere that you want to put down roots and live in, then the investment angle is moot. Folk spend large sums on fancy cars (many of which would cost more than my house in Spain did) without them being a good investment. Sure, it's nice if what you buy holds its' value, or increases, but rent is and always has been 'dead money' to me.


Rent is only "dead" money if prices are static or rising. We desperately wanted to buy when we moved to spain back in 2008. We couldn't sell our UK house, so ended up renting both ends. The property prices both ends plummeted (although the UK picked up much quicker). Things we looked at in Spain dropped significantly - they almost halved in some cases. The rent in the UK more than covered the rent in Spain, we didn't have the costs involved in buying/selling. So for us, at that time it was a "win win" situation. Especially as the house we probably would have bought in Spain really wasn't the most suitable in retrospect - nor could we have re-sold it easily! 

Hence my advice to always rent first until you're sure and understand the market, the commitment, your future etc...

Jo xxx

Sent from my D5803 using Expat Forum


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I'm not sure if it makes sense money wise one way or the other, but to me it makes sense mental health wise. Many people who come here have absolutely no idea what it's like to live here seven days a week all year long. Others have never lived away from their family let alone their country for more than 2 weeks a year annual holiday.
Apart from that I think buying a house in a foreign country can be fraught with problems. Do you really understand the cost, the location you've chosen, the type of house? For example you might like the idea of a pool and a garden, but then find it a bind as who wants to garden in this heat and we never use the pool because there's no shade around it.
It can seem like paradise, but turn into as the cliche says "a living hell"


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Yip its a toughey
> 
> Let's be honest. If you have no experience living abroad etc and need to work there's not really a debate- you MUST rent.
> 
> ...


Something to consider; around here (Malaga/Cadiz) in a mountain village you could rent an €80k property for €250. For €700/800 you could get - well nothing is that expensive.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm not sure if it makes sense money wise one way or the other, but to me it makes sense mental health wise. Many people who come here have absolutely no idea what it's like to live here seven days a week all year long. Others have never lived away from their family let alone their country for more than 2 weeks a year annual holiday.
> Apart from that I think buying a house in a foreign country can be fraught with problems. Do you really understand the cost, the location you've chosen, the type of house? For example you might like the idea of a pool and a garden, but then find it a bind as who wants to garden in this heat and we never use the pool because there's no shade around it.
> It can seem like paradise, but turn into as the cliche says "a living hell"


Good on Ya! Pesky - I know many people who have swimming "ponds" in their gardens which cost an arm and a leg to run and only to collect algae and leaves.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Very true and yet another experience we have learnt over the years of foreign ownership. Pools look great, can be excellent in very hot weather and we have had one for past 7 years. We would however not have one in any future purchase abroad for a variety of reasons including those you have given


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

I dont think that everybody who wants to live in Spain wants the villa and pool in an urb or up a mountain etc. Some like us (hopefully) would like to experience a bit of Spain and integrate as best we can. Again we know to expect the unexpected, the language, health, financial situation but all you can do is plan and research, research and more research. I'm sure it will be quite stressful to start with to say the least but life is about taking a gamble sometimes and sometimes the gamble pays off but you will never know unless you try it and that might include buying instead of renting.

Don't get me wrong I'm well aware of the high numbers that have had to repatriate but there are also high numbers that have loved it and things have worked out and stayed. I am also aware that living there is nothing like holidaying in Spain. One benefit is though, you are not returning after two weeks.


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## SteveScot (Feb 11, 2013)

You just need to get your thinking cap on before committing. Yes, by all means rent short term to find the area you like and see if you settle in, but to me, personally it would do my head in not owning my own place and having the ability to do what I like with it, and having no landlord involved.

Before I bought, I:

1) Visited the town on 3 occasions on holiday at different times of the year.
2) Kept an eye on the property market via the internet from home; getting familiar with the house styles and average prices they were going for.
3) Made connections with a few different estate agents, and got utilities, IBI, water, etc. estimates to do my sums with. Finally I went with a chap who was freelance and had contacts with many different estate agents, gave him the brief of what I was looking for and let him draw up a list of suitable properties.

I decided that I wanted a small property, with no garden, that I could lock up and leave for extended periods. I didn't want a pool, or even access to a communal one, as I wanted to keep costs pared down. There are no community charges for my property. MY bills are for electric, water & bins, IBI once a year, and home insurance.

I am still living in the UK, but as soon as I have enough of a passive income coming in, I will move out to my place in Spain full time. I have no qualms about leaving family behind, having lived away from 'home' previously for 7 years. 

Research is vital. And knowing what you will want from life.


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

SteveScot said:


> .... but to me, personally it would do my head in not owning my own place and having the ability to do what I like with it, and having no landlord involved.


Yup that's me as well. In my life I've owned 6 properties and each I have had to turn into my home. For me the problem with renting is would I be able to turn it into my home or would the terms of rent restrict me?

But equally I have boat owning friends - the boat is their home, the house a dorm. Each to their own


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Excellent research checklist Steve.

Very much along the lines of our groundwork so far with more to follow. Have made a few trips already this year with 2 more to go to be sure of location. It has actually proved easier than we thought as we have the experience of a small rural village abroad for many years and so many things are similar.

I am also very much of the opinion that there's a " certain feeling" you get when you visit a town/ village- which quickly can rule it out whereas the positive " this is it" vibe can be more elusive. I say that because we have found it incredibly easy to rule places out - on one trip we narrowed 26 possibles down to 3 maybes in about 4 days.

The advantage of having lived in a similar village abroad for years is when we go looking in Spain we have something to directly compare it to- as opposed to some people without such experience who really only have their native hometown with which to make comparisons.

Visits at varying times of the year makes the process longer too but I find them vital iro temperatures, local transport, shop opening hours etc.

I must say overall we have found the search process so far quite exciting and interesting and certainly nowhere near as daunting as when we first bought abroad many years ago.


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## SteveScot (Feb 11, 2013)

Rabbitcat said:


> I am also very much of the opinion that there's a " certain feeling" you get when you visit a town/ village- which quickly can rule it out whereas the positive " this is it" vibe can be more elusive. I say that because we have found it incredibly easy to rule places out - on one trip we narrowed 26 possibles down to 3 maybes in about 4 days.


I know what you mean. I viewed a really lovely apartment in the bigger town about 20 mins away from my place, and just couldn't take to the area at all. 

I ended up with a shortlist of 4 houses. Ended up going for the one that 'felt' right, and the other deciding factor would you believe, was that it had a front and back door, so I could get a decent flow of air through the house in the summer when it's baking hot!

Still delighted with my purchase 5 years on :first:


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

You have again hit the nail on the head- it can be small " insignificant" things which can sway you one way or another

It can be a street/ road which can be noisey- but only at certain times of the day, neighbouring property with very unkempt garden, excessive pet fouling on pave ways ,limited local parking, sun direction with your outside space permanently in shade or living area too hot. The list of things can be endless and of course compromises have to be reached.

It's being aware of as many possible " downers " to check before signing the rental/ purchase contract that is the key to effective research


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## SteveScot (Feb 11, 2013)

The point about shade is one which folk from northern Europe often get wrong. They buy a place that's in the sun all day long, and then have nowhere to escape the heat!

I like the heat but dislike direct sunlight. I always sit under a shade, umbrella, tree etc. My mates always slagged me off when we holidayed in the south of France in my younger days, as they'd be basking on the beach, and I would be under a tree....

My place in Spain has a small shady terrace, a small sunny terrace, and a roof terrace with a full covering pergola awning that can be used as and when needed. 

It would be a nightmare for me without shade....


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## Roy C (Sep 29, 2012)

It's good to see this thread having so many positive messages and very useful information shared, especially for those of us in the throws of preparing for the move.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

True Roy. There is a happy- medium to be had between rose tinted spectacles and doomsday naysaying. 

In my experience of living abroad the key factors are EVERYONE involved being onboard, not wanting to replicate your country of origin, expecting to take knocks , doing your homework to point of exhaustion before deciding to settle there and expecting the unexpected!!!

Oh and in my case steeling myself to go without Cadurys creme eggs!!!!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Rabbitcat said:


> You have again hit the nail on the head- it can be small " insignificant" things which can sway you one way or another
> 
> It can be a street/ road which can be noisey- but only at certain times of the day, neighbouring property with very unkempt garden, excessive pet fouling on pave ways ,limited local parking, sun direction with your outside space permanently in shade or living area too hot. The list of things can be endless and of course compromises have to be reached.
> 
> It's being aware of as many possible " downers " to check before signing the rental/ purchase contract that is the key to effective research



Our "dream" house was in a quiet road with a small holding next to it - perfect. We only rented it, but we visited it a few times and it was lovely. Anyway, after we moved in, the small holding turned out to be a bit of an abattoir. He killed chicken every sunday morning, the squawking was awful as was the smell and a lorry would arrive to take them away - NOISILY !!

Then, although we knew of the quarry at the top of the hill, we didnt think it was still active - it was (It did eventually close I believe). At least once a day they would explode it to loosen the rocks. The dust was unbelievable, it got everywhere, in our food, drinks, on our clothes, in the house, even blocking out the sun. Then of course the enormous earth shaking lorries carrying said rocks would thunder past our house... 

The other thing I should have thought about but didnt was that to get anywhere, we had to drive, so we also had to be on taxi duty for the kids everytime they wanted to go anywhere

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> Our "dream" house was in a quiet road with a small holding next to it - perfect. We only rented it, but we visited it a few times and it was lovely. Anyway, after we moved in, the small holding turned out to be a bit of an abattoir. He killed chicken every sunday morning, the squawking was awful as was the smell and a lorry would arrive to take them away - NOISILY !!
> 
> Then, although we knew of the quarry at the top of the hill, we didnt think it was still active - it was (It did eventually close I believe). At least once a day they would explode it to loosen the rocks. The dust was unbelievable, it got everywhere, in our food, drinks, on our clothes, in the house, even blocking out the sun. Then of course the enormous earth shaking lorries carrying said rocks would thunder past our house...
> 
> ...


Don't forget the flooding making it impossible for you to get out. That's my favourite.
Oh and the electric gate that wouldn't open which also meant that you couldn't get out with the car.
Or was that a different house??


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Don't forget the flooding making it impossible for you to get out. That's my favourite.
> Oh and the electric gate that wouldn't open which also meant that you couldn't get out with the car.
> Or was that a different house??


Oh yes, dont remind me lol. That wasnt actually our first house. We moved from the house by the quarry to the house that flooded. Now that was horrendous. A beautiful house, beautiful location, but the "dry" river bed that ran across our driveway/lane, allegedly had never seen water, flooded the first winter we were there for 6 days and yes, the electric gates packed up due to the rain..... well the electricity for the whole house packed up, we ran out of gas bottles, my son tore his ligament, my dog died from pneumonia as we couldnt get him to the vet, I ran out of cigarettes ................. and I thought Spain had a warm, dry climate. We nearly starved and froze to death. 

And that is why I often bang on about Spanish winters!

That was the year of the ash cloud too. So my commuting husband couldnt even come over and rescue us  

Jo xxx


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

I have always been in favour of buying but events over the last decade have led me to change my mind in regard to buying overseas.

You can do as much research as you want but like marriages you don't always find out things until actually living with them/it. You can get the neighbour from hell in any country and we went from having lovely neighbours who were our friends to the Hell type when they moved. It could be the house needs more repairs/alterations than you can afford too. All this is ok. In the UK but Spain is still not out of the mire yet. Despite what agents say there is no massive change to properties on sale and there is no quick escape. Also the high on costs means if you don't get it right the first time you will re-enter the property market 20% down.

Do the sensible thing, buy in the UK. Rent it out and with the income rent in Spain, you would probably get a bit of surplus pin money too I am surprised there isn't more rent to buy available in Spain.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Good post Isobella.

At the end of the day it's alll down to personal choice,risk, adventure call it whatever. 

Of course you could get nasty neighbours- Spain or anywhere else and don't even think of buying in Spain as an investment.

Some people welcome adventure, others would rather be safe than sorry.many rue the decision to ever go near Spain- others would never want to leave it. Having been around the block/ globe a bit I can tell you NOWHERE is perfect

I look upon it as calculated risk and giving it a go. Still not 100% which path we will take


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Isobella said:


> I have always been in favour of buying but events over the last decade have led me to change my mind in regard to buying overseas.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No thanks, when ours sold, all those years ago, it was such a relief not to have the trouble of a bungalow two thousand miles away. Here is now home, we have done with the U.K.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Hepa you always come across as a very contented man. You have done well to get a part of the globe which you obviously love and suits you perfectly. Fair play to you.

Can only hope that if we take the plunge we equally make the right choice


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Rabbitcat said:


> Yip its a toughey
> 
> Let's be honest. If you have no experience living abroad etc and need to work there's not really a debate- you MUST rent.
> 
> ...


There is no 'one size fits all rule'. The decision depends entirely on your personal circumstances and those of your close family. You have to consider your personal situation.
We have owned properties all our lives. When we decided to leave the UK, we knew we would not be going back - we could not think of any reason why we would want or need to. So we sold all the properties we owned, residential and commercial and invested the money as we also had good retirement incomes. 
We moved to Prague and rented a large house with extensive landscaped grounds and a heated covered outdoor swimming pool for about £800 a month- the exchange rate was good then.
Friends said we were mad, throwing money away. The landlord was good, did all repairs promptly and we were living in a posh house which had we bought it would have taken a chunk out of our savings. The rent was easily affordable and we enjoyed the house.
After three years we decided to move to Spain where my son has a house. No waiting around for a buyer, just a call to the removal company ( we moved all our furniture and possessions with us when we left the UK).
Now we rent a similar property in Spain....nice house with pool in a quiet area, rent much more than we paid in Prague....but to buy a house like this would be ten times €80k, perhaps more.
But.......we don't want to own a property. We don't want the responsibility of repairs. We want the freedom to move if a bunch of noisy party people move next door. We don't care that we are 'putting money in a landlord's pocket'. We've been landlords ourselves!
My son and his wife are very high earners. His wife will inherit big time from her parents, my son will from his father. They don't need our money. Besides, they have a house in Spain they rarely use...if they inherited another one it would be a nuisance to them. They don't intend to live full-time in Spain so they would have the hassle of renting or selling it, from the UK.
So we are happy to spend our money enjoying a property we don't own. We want to die without a cent in the bank and if we can't manage that, anything left goes to Dogs Trust UK.
In a couple of years time we intend to move from the village to town. We'll be looking for a similar property to rent. One month's notice and a phone call is all we need.
If we had listened to friends we could still be stuck in Prague, waiting for a buyer...
But our circumstances are unique to us. Renting suits us. We want to spend, not save. 
Others may well have different plans, different family situations, different values and priorities.
There is no one choice 'better' than another. Horses for courses...


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Yip exactly right its soooo much down to personal choice/ circumstances therefore it is pointless in some ways to say renting/ buying is better or worse. 

Just good luck to all in whatever option suits you best


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Leper said:


> Hi Rabbitcat - You said it yourself - you can afford it; you've tested the water, to say the least. You would be stupid not to buy.


We can afford to buy, don't want to buy, don't need to buy, don't intend to buy...where's the 'stupidity'?

Not everyone is set on squeezing a deal out of every situation, viewing things with an eye to the profit and loss aspect, especially once retired.
Some of us are happy spending what we've worked for all our lives. Now's the time for running down investments and savings to make for a happy old age, not looking to make further investments for someone else to get the benefit of.
Some might call that 'stupidity'.
I just think it's up to each to choose what they find suits them. Doing something you'd rather not do when there are choices available is stupidity, as I see it.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

alborino said:


> Yup that's me as well. In my life I've owned 6 properties and each I have had to turn into my home. For me the problem with renting is would I be able to turn it into my home or would the terms of rent restrict me?
> 
> But equally I have boat owning friends - the boat is their home, the house a dorm. Each to their own


As long as we don't knock walls down, we can do what we like with our rented home....paint the walls any colour, plant what we like in the garden, hang pictures, change curtains and so on. All the furniture is ours anyway. It's been our home for seven years almost and we intend to stay for a few more years.

I was much stricter when we were landlords....

Wouldn't be without our pool either. Ten thirty at night almost, very hot and I'm going to swim beneath the stars!!


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Mrypg

As has been said it is entirely a subjective decision.

However you raise the issue of age- I had never thought of it that way. Are older people more likely to be cautious or more likely to say " sod this I am finishing my innings living the good life!!"

Again I think its totally down to individual choice as regardless of age some people will feel more secure holding their capital and renting, similarly there are younger people who can be both tight asses or big spenders.

Me, I am sooooo tight if I was a ghost I wouldn't give you a scare!!!!!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I have bought once (12 years ago) in Spain, and will do so again (in the same town, as we are very happy here and it has everything we need) if we decide to move from our current house in the future. The only thing that makes us think we should maybe move eventually is accessibility which may become more difficult with age.

We bought our present house initially as a holiday home but always with the intention of retiring to it as soon as we were able to, which due to a combination of circumstances we were able to do several years earlier than we'd originally envisaged. We sold our house ini the UK because (a) we needed the capital from it to supplement our savings to live on until our pensions became payable and (b) like Hepa we had no thought of returning and did not want the hassle and possible expense re repairs and maintenance of being an absentee owner, once we didn't have two salaries comiing in.

Over the years since we've lived here, I've often mulled over whether we should rent or buy if we sold our present house, and have come to the conclusion that it will be buy. As I¡ve said before there are very few properties available for long term rent in the town where we live, and although i often comb through websites I very rarely see one I'd be happy to live in - the advantage of looking at properties in a town where you've already lived for several years is that you know exactly where the properties being advertised are and what the drawbacks are likely to be. I see ones that would be OK but I don't like the kitchen or bathrooms, and whilst I'd be prepred to buy a house and change those, obviously that couldn't be done in a rental.

The other intangible factor for me is that I think I'd feel insecure living in someone else's property. Yes, that means more responsibility for me as an owner, but on balance I prefer that.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Rabbitcat said:


> Mrypg
> 
> As has been said it is entirely a subjective decision.
> 
> ...


I'm prudent, or rather I was. But having worked out the number of years -hopefully many yet - left to me and the money we have available plus the fact we don't have to worry about leaving anything for our heirs...we're spending.
Our problem is that we don't have wildly extravagant tastes...Dogs Trust UK could be in for a pleasant surprise, unless I get a wild urge to buy a Maserati.
And what if we run out of money whilst still alive and kicking, unlikely though that seems? My son once asked that.
The answer is simple: I told him we would turn up on his doorstep, suitcases in hand. 
He went pale.

Seriously, we will always have a roof over our heads in Spain as if in dire straits we can live in son and dil's very nice property.

We both worked for decades and we didn't do it so our biggest thrill once retired would be contemplating large sums in the bank.
We enjoyed life whilst working and we intend to enjoy life even more now our time is our own.
Which we are doing.....just back from early morning (pre 07.30) walk in campo with dogs, about to have breakfast by pool, meeting friends for coffee, planning weekend drinks party....life is to be lived, especially when most of it is behind you.
And if you are lucky to have health and the means to do so, of course.


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> I see ones that would be OK but I don't like the kitchen or bathrooms, and whilst I'd be prepred to buy a house and change those, obviously that couldn't be done in a rental.


Yup while there will always be those who truely justify renting and others who truely justify buying if you have the means (a big if) then there are many plusses to buying.

My main reasons are:

My wealth has three main parts: Guaranteed income, savings and my property. That spread offers me security. (Yes you can invest in property by other means but not with the same risk profile or in the same flexible way as your own property).

For my MIL and us in the future we have to consider changes such as widening access, access ramps, stair lifts, etc. And in my last two houses we have removed walls - ok maybe we are a little odd .

and as Lynn says the feeling of security. 

I can see why those who are happy to rent do so but it is not for me. But of course I'm grateful I have the choice


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Mrypg

Excellent, honest and bloody enthusing post 

I both envy your lifestyle and you having the kahunas to go for it

I think I still lack the total confidence aspect of really giving it a blast but a move over to Spain under whatever arrangement will for me be a step in the right direction.

Enjoy your great life


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Rabbitcat said:


> Mrypg
> 
> Excellent, honest and bloody enthusing post
> 
> ...


Thanks. A fairly simple but deeply satisfying life centred around dogs, books and friends...

I think that you can look at retirement in two ways: you either stay put, mortgage paid off, relax and enjoy doing more or less what you did before, albeit with more freedom to travel, being in control of your own time.
Or...you look on it as if you were leaving home for the second time, starting a new life, venturing out into new territory.
We had a good life in the UK, no health, family or money worries although my partner had a stressful working life running two medium sized businesses. I've always been extremely prudent, never borrowed, always thought carefully before buying anything important. I grew up in what now would be termed extreme poverty, although we were unaware of that, never cold, never badly clothed albeit in hand- me- downs and home knits, well fed with home grown fruitnand veg. I learned that poor people can't afford to buy cheap so we saved until we could buy quality, lasting things. That's still the way I see things. I wear clothes, 'good' clothes, I bought ten years or more ago.
We have two good' 4x4s, both old. One has 200000 km on the clock but bodywork and interior like new. We don't need posh new cars any more.
This may sound smug but it's not meant to be. Neither is it a way of life that appeals to everyone. We have got this far through a blend of work, caution and most of all, sheer good fortune. We both recognise this and do our bit to help others less fortunate.
When we read about horrors sucjh as the events in Tunisia, Kuwait and France and the everyday suferingof so many in the world, we should ponder the fragility of life and how careless of it we are.

Have just realised I'm getting a bit carried away. Off to the garden to pick up and bury the dog crap


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> We can afford to buy, don't want to buy, don't need to buy, don't intend to buy...where's the 'stupidity'?
> 
> Not everyone is set on squeezing a deal out of every situation, viewing things with an eye to the profit and loss aspect, especially once retired.
> Some of us are happy spending what we've worked for all our lives. Now's the time for running down investments and savings to make for a happy old age, not looking to make further investments for someone else to get the benefit of.
> ...


I was watching A Place in the Sun yesterday. A couple looking for their retirement home were shown several things, including one which would be too big for them but was ideal for use as a B&B to give them income. What is about "we are retiring and want our retirement home" that these expert personal house shoppers don't get? Understanding the lifestyle the purchasers want is surely key.

Which brings me to your point, there is nothing stupid about about spending money on rent. It's a lifestyle choice. Those with money can make such choices and probably aren't very stupid at all, otherwise they wouldn't have accrued the cash to enable such a choice.

When I eventually make the move full-time, I will continue to keep a property in the UK but it will be there as a source of income, not as a safety net in case "things don't work out". So I will continue to be a landlord in the UK. Fact is, if I didn't need the cash, i'd do exactly what you did and get rid of the lot.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Rabbitcat said:


> Hepa you always come across as a very contented man. You have done well to get a part of the globe which you obviously love and suits you perfectly. Fair play to you.
> 
> Can only hope that if we take the plunge we equally make the right choice


Hepa,

You do indeed, your level of contentment is my target 

And despite spending half the year loafing around on the Costa Blanca, when some friends go to Lanzarote later this year I shall be joining them. And then I'll jump on that boat over to Fuerteventura at least a couple of times, because it has a beach that you could travel the world looking for the equal of, and I am not sure you'd find it.

No doubt you have a similar one.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Horlics don't get me started re A Place in a The Sun

It should be renamed tyre kickers in the sun. Free loaders with no intention of buying poncing about then almost always they come out with " well we will go back to England and think it over!!"

I am convinced most of them haven't got a washer and are just there on a freebie

Rant over

Ps. I am madly in luuuurv with Amanda Lamb


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

alborino said:


> (Yes you can invest in property by other means but not with the same risk profile or in the same flexible way as your own property).


There are ways of investing in property that give you MUCH more flexibility than owning your own.

I owe Leper a thank you. He was waxing lyrically about the property market in Ireland and Dublin in particular, so I had a look at some of the managed property funds. Made 5% in not much more than 3 months. And selling this kind of property takes as long as one click of the mouse.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Rabbitcat said:


> Horlics don't get me started re A Place in a The Sun
> 
> It should be renamed tyre kickers in the sun. Free loaders with no intention of buying poncing about then almost always they come out with " well we will go back to England and think it over!!"
> 
> ...


I know what you mean about tyre-kickers, but honestly, when I see people turn up and buy one of the 3 or 5 they've been shown, on their first trip to a place they're not familiar with, I cringe.

It's OK when people know the areas, have visited a lot before, and done a lot of research, which I suppose the majority who appear have. So, yes, I understand your view about this type.

I prefer Sara. I notice the other two have been pregnant in recent shows which always leads me to speculate aloud about what Johnny gets up to. The wife is never amused.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I like the property shows, and if I'm honest I'd have to admit it was watching them that first gave me the idea that "hey, we could do that" because I'd always vaguely assumed that only the wealthy could afford to up sticks and move abroad, but once we started seeing "normal" people on this type of show with more down to earth budgets, I thought well, why not us? and started looking into all the ins and outs of a purchase in Spain (or Portugal, although we decided in favour of Spain in the end) and tax, healthcare, etc. considerations. I did all of that before ever starting to look for a property or even a location. I even had to go back to a full time job (had downshifted to 3 days a week previously), find a new job and spend 12 months in it before we could get a mortgage to buy another place, anyway, so it was quite a long process giving lots of time for research and reflection.

I could never for one moment envisage going on one trip to an area I'd never seen before and buying a house, though. We already knew this area quite well from many holidays over the years (and often in the winter) in Nerja, during which we travelled around many nearby towns and villages). However, strangely enough we'd never visited this particular town before starting our property search and had spent all of 20 minutes here before I said to my OH "yes, I could definitely live here" and we both felt the same about it, as we still do.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Horlics said:


> Hepa,
> 
> You do indeed, your level of contentment is my target
> 
> ...


We do not have many sandy beaches here and those that we have are not worth bothering with, we have charcos, man made or natural volcanic rock pools some quite large.

Have a look at the photos on the link below, you never know one day you may wish to visit the best kept secret in Spain.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Its all such a personal thing

Yes if you can afford it keeping a home in the UK would be great, but some of us do not have that sort of finances. A home is not an investment.........

Renting is great as is buying

For us renting was a no no, just not for us

We are happy, like others, we have a 3 bedroom finca, hectare of land. The past year we have spent revamping the house and land, still have about 8 months of work to go. BUT we also read spend time relaxing, reading walking the dogs. Next month Chickens Ducks and goats arrive ( building the houses now)

I like the fact that this house is ours to do with what we want


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## alborino (Dec 13, 2014)

Horlics said:


> There are ways of investing in property that give you MUCH more flexibility than owning your own.
> 
> I owe Leper a thank you. He was waxing lyrically about the property market in Ireland and Dublin in particular, so I had a look at some of the managed property funds. Made 5% in not much more than 3 months. And selling this kind of property takes as long as one click of the mouse.


And has it never lost money just as quickly?
And do you pay tax on the profits?
And can you live in a line on an excel spreadsheet?
And have you ever signed a lease?

Try to keep it real. As I said horses for courses


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

alborino said:


> And has it never lost money just as quickly?
> And do you pay tax on the profits?
> And can you live in a line on an excel spreadsheet?
> And have you ever signed a lease?
> ...


1. Yes
2. Yes
3. No
4. Yes.

I agree with the horses for courses.

Your point is?


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## andrea1968 (Feb 27, 2014)

We are letting our UK property for five years and are purchasing on a rent with option to buy basis a villa near the beach in Oliva. The owners let the property on a long term basis as they are based in Holland, We asked the estate agent if they would be interested in this option.We have negotiated a final sale price and are moving in the end of this month. We didn't want to sell our UK home as we would like to build up more equity in it first and wait for the market to improve. As we were going to be paying rent in Spain anyway we might as well be purchasing instead of paying out and having nothing to show for it.The contract was 250 euros with a local solicitor out there. We are renting through a well established estate agent in the area, who has made the whole process seamless. So, the question for us was, rent or buy, we decided to do both. My husband is in the merchant navy and can take retirement in 5 years, I think if we waited until then we would not be able to afford the kind of property we would like.


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## Dunpleecin (Dec 20, 2012)

I don't think there will ever be a right or wrong answer to this.

People have different requirements, different incomes, different outlooks on life and each one will tailor their own circumstances to what suits them. They will also staunchly defend their decision because to question their decision is seen as a personal insult.

Would you pay double the price of a mortgage to rent the same place? Especially when there's nothing to show for that money? Against that, will you lose money hand over fist if you tried to sell in a hurry having bought? Making renting effectively the same thing in terms of money lost.

People having bought a place in Spain 7-10 years ago will be disappointed at their worth now, and if they'd rented the same place, they may well have lost much less money. But if you bought in the last 2 years, for pretty much half what houses were initially sold at, then that's a completely different proposition.

The property market appears to be picking up. I believe it's a great time to buy a low cost property especially with the value of the pound against the euro. But it also depends on your age. If you're retired with, say, a pot of savings, and no one to inherit anywhere you might buy, it seems senseless to buy somewhere and you might as well rent and enjoy your savings to live the good life, buy a nice car, etc. On the other hand, if you're relatively young, perhaps had early retirement and have children, then buying somewhere with a small mortgage (if you can't buy it outright) would seem more sensible if you are considering those you leave behind.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

andrea1968 said:


> We are letting our UK property for five years and are purchasing on a rent with option to buy basis a villa near the beach in Oliva. The owners let the property on a long term basis as they are based in Holland, We asked the estate agent if they would be interested in this option.We have negotiated a final sale price and are moving in the end of this month. We didn't want to sell our UK home as we would like to build up more equity in it first and wait for the market to improve. As we were going to be paying rent in Spain anyway we might as well be purchasing instead of paying out and having nothing to show for it.The contract was 250 euros with a local solicitor out there. We are renting through a well established estate agent in the area, who has made the whole process seamless. So, the question for us was, rent or buy, we decided to do both. My husband is in the merchant navy and can take retirement in 5 years, I think if we waited until then we would not be able to afford the kind of property we would like.


As a matter of interest, how much of the rent you are paying gets knocked off the purchase price? 

The usual rent-to-buy schemes (in Spain) allow any rent paid to be offset against any future purchase price. However, I see so many people that are in these schemes but were conned into not having this clause in their contract.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Good post Dunpleecin.

As the originator of this thread I have to admit to continually flip-flopping on my preferred option. 

Doubtless my wife will eventually tell me which option I prefer but for now , just like you I can see the passionate belief each camp holds in their preferred choice.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Regardless of the rights or wrongs, the number of British buyers is certainly on the up around here. 4 houses within 200m of ours have been bought by British buyers since the start of this year, obviously the much improved exchange rate has a lot to do with it. The latest one is (so I'm told by his new next door neighbour, a Spanish artist) a sculptor. I think we're being gentrified!


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Yip Lynn as has been said with prices low and Euro rate good it sure is tempting to go for it!!

Yes a buyer must accept......

You wont make a profit when you go to sell- indeed may lose

You may not be able to sell at all

You will have the ownership upkeep costs etc


But still..............!!!!


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## andrea1968 (Feb 27, 2014)

We are paying 650 euros a month (the advertised rental price), all of which is coming off the agreed asking price of 180,000 euros. We also paid 5,000 euros deposit as the property comes fully furnished and all we need to take is our clothes.This amount is also coming off the price.

The current Dutch owners bought it in 2007 for 280,000 euros,looks to be not long before the crash. It is their holiday home. Our solicitor in Spain has checked the property is fully legal and sent us over a copy of the land registry and checked there are no debts associated with the property. The contract also covers possible outcomes, i.e. death of owners, bankruptcy etc. I have taken this to our UK solicitor and he assures me it is in line with the current rent to buy contracts regularly used here and in Spain. I trust everything is in order.

It is 3 beds, 2 baths,3 living rooms and a kitchen all on one level. It also has a 1 bedroom casita. There is a private pool and a large garden for my 2 dogs to run and swim. We are a five minute walk to the beach and five minute drive to the town of Oliva.

The move will benefit all of my family in one way or another. We are staying positive that we can make it work for us. My son is extremely sociable and makes friends easily and is itching to go.

We currently live in a town with way above average unemployment and a lot of families have left due to the poor prospects for themselves and their children. 

We cannot predict how our lives will be out there is Spain but we are going with open minds, If it doesn't work we will put it down to experience and come home. It feels the right time now to do it and if we don't we will always wonder, what if?

We will make it work, I am sure.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Not much point in selling now if you are a Brit and want to convert to sterling. Unless you are desperate. I know a few who have taken them off the market around San Pedro.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Ah but a desperate seller is catnip for an eager buyer.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

We've just come back from shopping to find one of those estate agent's leaflets saying "Do you want to sell your house, contact us now ....". That's something that certainly wasn't happening a couple of years ago, whereas when we first bought it was a common occurrence, they even used to come and knock on the door trying to persuade people to list their houses for sale. I hope it doesn't get to that again, it was a damned nuisance!

The trouble with there being desperate sellers around is that buyers assume everybody is in that position and therefore make really low offers even on properties that are already realistically priced. I suppose if they do if often enough, by the law of averages they will eventually hit on somebody who really is desperate to sell, but it must be very frustrating for those who aren't in that position.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> We've just come back from shopping to find one of those estate agent's leaflets saying "Do you want to sell your house, contact us now ....". That's something that certainly wasn't happening a couple of years ago, whereas when we first bought it was a common occurrence, they even used to come and knock on the door trying to persuade people to list their houses for sale. I hope it doesn't get to that again, it was a damned nuisance!
> 
> The trouble with there being desperate sellers around is that buyers assume everybody is in that position and therefore make really low offers even on properties that are already realistically priced. I suppose if they do if often enough, by the law of averages they will eventually hit on somebody who really is desperate to sell, but it must be very frustrating for those who aren't in that position.


I wish, I have one for sale, but despite price dropping no interest whatsoever, still we are not in a hurry, the one we want to buy is still for sale.


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