# Possible move to NZ



## K SD

My family and I visited NZ last December and loved it. We visited both islands and found it to be enchanting. My husbands job is on the long term list and has had a few interviews to date. So it looks like relocation could actually be a possibility. I was really excited until yesterday. All reviews I had read were great up to that point. Except for a few people which I feel had unrealistic expectations of what they were in for. But, yesterday I found several sites which talked very poorly of NZ including its lifestyle, gang issues, poor schooling etc... that I am now having second thoughts. My whole family (including my two teenagers) are on board with moving but I don't want to put our kids in harms way or live in a "hell hole" as it was such described and destroy our life here for what may be a false ideal. I am so confused. We never felt threatened, unsafe, unwelcome or any of the other described issues while there for our 2.5 week stay. Any thoughts or suggestions??? They would be greatly appreciated as I do not know if we should continue our process.


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## tamarisk

K SD said:


> My family and I visited NZ last December and loved it. We visited both islands and found it to be enchanting. My husbands job is on the long term list and has had a few interviews to date. So it looks like relocation could actually be a possibility. I was really excited until yesterday. All reviews I had read were great up to that point. Except for a few people which I feel had unrealistic expectations of what they were in for. But, yesterday I found several sites which talked very poorly of NZ including its lifestyle, gang issues, poor schooling etc... that I am now having second thoughts. My whole family (including my two teenagers) are on board with moving but I don't want to put our kids in harms way or live in a "hell hole" as it was such described and destroy our life here for what may be a false ideal. I am so confused. We never felt threatened, unsafe, unwelcome or any of the other described issues while there for our 2.5 week stay. Any thoughts or suggestions??? They would be greatly appreciated as I do not know if we should continue our process.


I find 'tourist' new zealand quite different from small town NZ. I would look at where you're living - avoid the worst parts of South Auckland, but beware that some (non-tourist-trail) small towns can feel quite remote and rednecky. 

I have certainly seen more crime and general aggro here than in the UK, but we were from Cornwall, so maybe we were spoiled. On the other hand, day to day it feels very safe. I realise my contradictions aren't much help, but like in the UK, there are areas you wouldn't live in, and some town centres you'd avoid at night - same here.

I would suggest giving it a go - even if you don't like it to stay forever, it will be good to have been. Just don't sell your house in the UK until you have lived here a while and you are sure you want to stay.

And, like anywhere, be careful which areas of which towns you move to.


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## topcat83

K SD said:


> My family and I visited NZ last December and loved it. We visited both islands and found it to be enchanting. My husbands job is on the long term list and has had a few interviews to date. So it looks like relocation could actually be a possibility. I was really excited until yesterday. All reviews I had read were great up to that point. Except for a few people which I feel had unrealistic expectations of what they were in for. But, yesterday I found several sites which talked very poorly of NZ including its lifestyle, gang issues, poor schooling etc... that I am now having second thoughts. My whole family (including my two teenagers) are on board with moving but I don't want to put our kids in harms way or live in a "hell hole" as it was such described and destroy our life here for what may be a false ideal. I am so confused. We never felt threatened, unsafe, unwelcome or any of the other described issues while there for our 2.5 week stay. Any thoughts or suggestions??? They would be greatly appreciated as I do not know if we should continue our process.


What can I say?? There is certainly one forum out there that is - to say the least - completely biased towards the bad side of New Zealand. You only have to read their 'mission statement' to see that they will never be balanced. 

To quote their front page: 

'...an information and community site that lays out the downside of emigrating to New Zealand....'.

I think you will find this website more balanced. We recognise that no country is without it's problems (and NZ is no exception) but I can assure you we wouldn't be here if it was as bad as these rogue forums make out!


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## Kimbella

K SD said:


> My family and I visited NZ last December and loved it. We visited both islands and found it to be enchanting. My husbands job is on the long term list and has had a few interviews to date. So it looks like relocation could actually be a possibility. I was really excited until yesterday. All reviews I had read were great up to that point. Except for a few people which I feel had unrealistic expectations of what they were in for. But, yesterday I found several sites which talked very poorly of NZ including its lifestyle, gang issues, poor schooling etc... that I am now having second thoughts. My whole family (including my two teenagers) are on board with moving but I don't want to put our kids in harms way or live in a "hell hole" as it was such described and destroy our life here for what may be a false ideal. I am so confused. We never felt threatened, unsafe, unwelcome or any of the other described issues while there for our 2.5 week stay. Any thoughts or suggestions??? They would be greatly appreciated as I do not know if we should continue our process.



I moved here two years ago from California and will *never* leave. I had a very, very comfortable upper middle class life and reputable profession in psychiatric nursing. I missed some of that at first--I do not need to work here, and my first year plus was spent coordinating things with my husband's earthquake damaged house. That situation was untenable at times compared to my life of comfort in CA--BUT, since we settled the house claim and moved on and up, I've never been so satisfied or content. This land is breathtaking, the people are friendly and kind, the lifestyle is non-aggressive (ok, sometimes annoyingly so--kiwis can't be TOO passive at times!), and the weather is basically mostly awesome (except for winters in Chch)! If you plan things properly, and allow for a good financial buffer, you will probably find that once the culture shock is over (read sticker shock at cost of living)--you may well find the life here to be *amazing!* We have zero money concerns (thanks to good financial planning and a husband that hustles), so we have no lack of toys: jet boat, jet skis, quad bike, bee hives for the garden, annual passes to the zoo and gondola here in Chch, etc. I would totally stay away from those negative sites, because, frankly, they give just enough "truth" about how NZ is that what they claim isn't an outright lie. I don't think you will ever find a country more willing to make their heritage something to be proud of. Over and over I keep returning to how fantastic the integration of Maori heritage into everyday life is. IMO, any country that has gone to such lengths to showcase and equalize things between its cultures is well worth living in, even if it is expensive and small!

Cheers,

Kim


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## tamarisk

Kimbella said:


> I moved here two years ago from California and will *never* leave. I had a very, very comfortable upper middle class life and reputable profession in psychiatric nursing. I missed some of that at first--I do not need to work here, and my first year plus was spent coordinating things with my husband's earthquake damaged house. That situation was untenable at times compared to my life of comfort in CA--BUT, since we settled the house claim and moved on and up, I've never been so satisfied or content. This land is breathtaking, the people are friendly and kind, the lifestyle is non-aggressive (ok, sometimes annoyingly so--kiwis can't be TOO passive at times!), and the weather is basically mostly awesome (except for winters in Chch)! If you plan things properly, and allow for a good financial buffer, you will probably find that once the culture shock is over (read sticker shock at cost of living)--you may well find the life here to be *amazing!* We have zero money concerns (thanks to good financial planning and a husband that hustles), so we have no lack of toys: jet boat, jet skis, quad bike, bee hives for the garden, annual passes to the zoo and gondola here in Chch, etc. I would totally stay away from those negative sites, because, frankly, they give just enough "truth" about how NZ is that what they claim isn't an outright lie. I don't think you will ever find a country more willing to make their heritage something to be proud of. Over and over I keep returning to how fantastic the integration of Maori heritage into everyday life is. IMO, any country that has gone to such lengths to showcase and equalize things between its cultures is well worth living in, even if it is expensive and small!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Kim


Yes - I quite agree - I don't know why people complain. I hate it when the forums are full of people moaning about being cold and hungry and not being able to afford to fly back to see their families, or just enduring a poor quality of life. 
It's almost as if they are poor or something - but for goodness sake, what is wrong with them? Why don't they just do proper financial planning or hustle a bit more like Kimbella and husband? 
Or at the very least they could sell their jet boat or do without one of their jet skis or quad bikes for a while? 
Yes, people who moan are just being negative and not appreciating just how lovely NZ - like anywhere really - is (when you have pots of spare cash).


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## Kimbella

tamarisk said:


> Yes - I quite agree - I don't know why people complain. I hate it when the forums are full of people moaning about being cold and hungry and not being able to afford to fly back to see their families, or just enduring a poor quality of life.
> It's almost as if they are poor or something - but for goodness sake, what is wrong with them? Why don't they just do proper financial planning or hustle a bit more like Kimbella and husband?
> Or at the very least they could sell their jet boat or do without one of their jet skis or quad bikes for a while?
> Yes, people who moan are just being negative and not appreciating just how lovely NZ - like anywhere really - is (when you have pots of spare cash).




I'm not sure if you were intending to be caustic or what, or why that would be? 

Do you think it grotesque of me to point out to a fellow American what my lifestyle here in NZ is, compared to what she has read in other forums? Or to offer a comparison on what they (likely) have there in the US, to what I have here in NZ? 

Based on her post about her and the family (I assume the 2 teens she mentioned) having been here to vacation, it's a pretty fair assumption that they have money--which is what my post was intended to highlight: yes, if you plan well, have money, and/or have a husband with a business, it will be loads easier to not only adjust, but *enjoy* the lifestyle here. Maybe you didn't mean to be caustic and sarcastic, I've no idea, but my post was intended to shed an alternative view-point, with example and perspective, to what the OP had read on other forums. 

I can't help the experiences that other people have had that have been negative, but I can relay mine to offer a counter-point that. I did not come to NZ "seeking a better life" than I had in California--I already had a good life, my life here is equivalently as good, but different. I think it's a fair assumption that if they as a family could afford to fly over and stay for 2.5 weeks, they probably aren't fleeing a miserable life in the US, but instead have the money to explore what is out in the world beyond US borders; money which will make immigrating and settling much easier than maybe it is for people who do/did immigrate looking for a "better" life. Everyone's experience is different for different reasons--I was not desperately trying to change my lot in life to get ahead-- I was already there--and moved here on a whim. It worked out, what can I say?


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## topcat83

Kimbella said:


> I'm not sure if you were intending to be caustic or what, or why that would be?


I think there's no doubt that Tamarisk was being sarcastic. Not sure what country of birth he/she is from, but I would guess from Britain, the home of sarcastic comment.

And you are dead right, Kimbella - not everyone who emigrates here is poor! And for us who did arrive with some capital (and that includes me), the life here is amazing. I have no major complaints at all - and certainly none that would make me go back to the UK.

I would also say that I have a couple of friends who are not so well off (and in fact are struggling money-wise). And I've asked the question of both of them whether they'd move back to the UK. 

Both have said that they would rather be in NZ in their current state than back in the UK.


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## Kimbella

topcat83 said:


> I think there's no doubt that Tamarisk was being sarcastic. Not sure what country of birth he/she is from, but I would guess from Britain, the home of sarcastic comment.
> 
> And you are dead right, Kimbella - not everyone who emigrates here is poor! And for us who did arrive with some capital (and that includes me), the life here is amazing. I have no major complaints at all - and certainly none that would make me go back to the UK.
> 
> I would also say that I have a couple of friends who are not so well off (and in fact are struggling money-wise). And I've asked the question of both of them whether they'd move back to the UK.
> 
> Both have said that they would rather be in NZ in their current state than back in the UK.



Yah, I don't really get sarcasm all that well. You don't heal yourself by wounding others, in my opinion. 

When I first arrived in NZ, for the first almost 18 months I was here, my (now) husband (then b/f) and I were stuck in his gawd-awful severely earthquake damaged house, we could not move, eqc and the insurer weren't doing shyte to escalate the claim or any repairs; I froze my bum off for 3 winters, the house was full and well destroyed: in the US is would have been condemned in fact. It was sunk over 164mm from one side to the next, our bedroom wall was buckled, the foundation was completely destroyed, we had liquefaction under and around the house; black mould started growing the last months we were there, etc., so, it wasn't all lollipops and rainbows, and was beyond bleak at times. But, we stuck it out, knowing it would get better, and in fact, our private joke was: it can't get any freaking WORSE! We had money to get out--which we did, ALOT--when the weather allowed, and that's what got me (personally) thru it, being away from (that) home as much as possible. Once our attorney got things settled for us, and we could move on, and access our money freely again, and move out of that house, it has been *nothing* but a breeze. I won't deny that having money to do stuff is what helped us through that period, but, it wasn't a walk in the park--at all. Even tho I could have returned to the US at any time, I chose not to. And, frankly, my experience moving into a busted EQ house is not going to be the typical immigrant experience, especially one with money. It is going to be somewhat more similar to how things are going now. I well and truly love it here!


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## mikesurf

I think these responses just about nail it on the head. If you come over with plenty of money it will be much easier to settle, period. For the majority though who spend their hard earned savings to migrate they will find things a struggle. It's all very well looking at lovely pictures of the scenery and saying how wonderfull it looks, maybe they should take photos of the quality of houses, unless you can afford that big warm house in Mission Bay of course.


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## pmbpro

topcat83 said:


> What can I say?? There is certainly one forum out there that is - to say the least - completely biased towards the bad side of New Zealand. You only have to read their 'mission statement' to see that they will never be balanced.
> 
> To quote their front page:
> 
> '...an information and community site that lays out the downside of emigrating to New Zealand....'.
> 
> I think you will find this website more balanced. We recognise that no country is without it's problems (and NZ is no exception) but I can assure you we wouldn't be here if it was as bad as these rogue forums make out!


I'm just curious... What is the purpose of such 'rogue forums'? Are they to doing this to deliberately discourage people from emigrating there?


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## mikesurf

I think that these negative forums are for people who want to let off steam after an unsuccessful attemp at immigrating. It has to be said though that a lot of the negative comments have a certain amount of truth in most cases, even if it may be exagerated. There are also plenty of forums which give nothing but a rose tinted glowing report on New Zealand and if any negative comments end up on their forum they get slammed down. In my opinion I think these forums are full of people who are going to make their life in New Zealand work whatever and want to here other people comment on how wonderfull it all is and how of course they have made the right decision.

There is absolutely no doubt that the immigration exhibitions, in the UK at least, give an unbalanced view of New Zealand and make it appear like some sort of eutopia with their 100% clean green image. Far from the truth I'm afraid as most rivers in New Zealand border on toxic and the lack of wildlife in the forests is eerie. You can literaly stand in most forests and not see or hear a single animal, including birds.


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## Kimbella

mikesurf said:


> I think that these negative forums are for people who want to let off steam after an unsuccessful attemp at immigrating. It has to be said though that a lot of the negative comments have a certain amount of truth in most cases, even if it may be exagerated. There are also plenty of forums which give nothing but a rose tinted glowing report on New Zealand and if any negative comments end up on their forum they get slammed down. In my opinion I think these forums are full of people who are going to make their life in New Zealand work whatever and want to here other people comment on how wonderfull it all is and how of course they have made the right decision.
> 
> There is absolutely no doubt that the immigration exhibitions, in the UK at least, give an unbalanced view of New Zealand and make it appear like some sort of eutopia with their 100% clean green image. Far from the truth I'm afraid as most rivers in New Zealand border on toxic and the lack of wildlife in the forests is eerie. You can literaly stand in most forests and not see or hear a single animal, including birds.


Hhmmm... well, I do agree that people will see things thru the lens of their own experience, but I don't agree that people are simply posting positive to get reinforcement from strangers that their decision was right or wonderful. I think that's a pretty degrading assumption to be made on people who made big decisions to move across the world to a new place--don't you? I don't think the types of personalities who move across the ocean need validation from other people, especially strangers-- we'd all be over 12 years old, you know ...

I don't think there is anything wrong with encouraging people who have the will and the drive--if they PLAN and know what kind of life they want, and have explored options about how to get it once they arrive. We don't have immigration exhibits (that I'm aware of or seen in the US), but there is certainly no lack of environmental toxicity in my homeland, and wherever you are that you cannot see or hear birds, is not a place in NZ that I have been to. I am awoken every morning starting at 0530 at my house, smack dab in the middle of Christchurch, and have been all over and not found the eerie quiet forest you describe. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I just don't find that to be typical for the NZ that I have traveled around. 

I get the need to vent, but I also think that people who *have* adjusted deserve to be heard as well, in order to show there is and can be absolute success for people who choose to immigrate. I'm of the personal opinion though, that the success may be largely dependent upon the circumstances under which you immigrate: immigrating *anywhere*, but especially to a place with a >well known< high cost of living, is probably not a great idea unless you have already "made it" wherever you are coming from, and can afford to pack up and go home if it doesn't work out, OR, you are starting completely from scratch as a young person, where all you can go is up. If you are "just getting by" wherever your homeland is, I don't think it's realistic to think you can pack up and move here and unilaterally have the same lifestyle or class of living. I also don't think the glowing reviews by people are all rose colored glasses, I think that people can have an honest and healthy perspective of what they have, what they compromise on, what is different, what is better, and completely integrate that into a composite picture that is great for them. I can't shop much online here, I don't have access to much gourmet cooking items, etc. Well, I also couldn't have chickens or bee hives in my town in California, the rivers there were also all hazardous to eat fish from, every year brought threat of drought, then floods, then mudslides, then wildfires.... yah, I think I can respect what I had and what I have, and realize that in both places I had a great life, with normal struggles along the way. I don't know where on earth I could move to get away from that.


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## Guest

I am not even going to bother to read all the comments just respond directly to your original post... My recommendation to you if you are concerned about poverty and gangs in NZ is just go online and read the NZ Herald and watch the TV news online. Coming from South Africa in 03 the news is a joke, and I mean that fondly. What city in the world doesn't have crime and gangs? But if you move to Auckland I encourage you to look on the North Shore where there are still pockets of reasonable houses for rent and you are close to great amenities. Auckland still always features on the list of world's best cities to live in for a reason. Read my blog _[personal website deleted]_ about why Auckland has been good to me and my family. And I still love Cape Town and had no crime or race issues when I left.


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## inhamilton

mikesurf said:


> You can literaly stand in most forests and not see or hear a single animal, including birds.


NZ doesn't have native animals. Any that exist here are introduced, including humans. That's why NZ has so many birds that can't fly, because they didn't need to due to there being no mammal predators, until humans brought in rats, possums etc that is.
As for there being no birds in the forests, that is just nonsense.


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## inhamilton

K SD said:


> But, yesterday I found several sites which talked very poorly of NZ including its lifestyle, gang issues, poor schooling etc... that I am now having second thoughts.


It's a propaganda site. Having visited here, you have to decide for yourself how accurate you think that site portrays things. Did you see anyone wearing gang patches or such while you were here? Gangs are far less visible here than say they were in the 1970's. In all honesty, I don't believe I've seen one person wearing a gang patch in the last 10 years in my day to day life. As for schooling, I think I had a pretty good education  NZ always seems to rate fairly highly on international education surveys, which you can look up on the net yourself. As for lifestyle, thats an individual thing. I guess there's no way of knowing if it would suit you until you are actually living it. People still have to go to work, do housework, make meals etc etc. It also depends on where you end up, if you immigrate. Lifestyles vary, depending on where you go. Auckland is a very different lifestyle to say Invercargill.


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## topcat83

pmbpro said:


> I'm just curious... What is the purpose of such 'rogue forums'? Are they to doing this to deliberately discourage people from emigrating there?


Yes - that was exactly why they were there. Just a group of saddos, IMHO.


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## topcat83

mikesurf said:


> I think that these negative forums are for people who want to let off steam after an unsuccessful attemp at immigrating. It has to be said though that a lot of the negative comments have a certain amount of truth in most cases, even if it may be exagerated. There are also plenty of forums which give nothing but a rose tinted glowing report on New Zealand and if any negative comments end up on their forum they get slammed down. In my opinion I think these forums are full of people who are going to make their life in New Zealand work whatever and want to here other people comment on how wonderfull it all is and how of course they have made the right decision.
> 
> There is absolutely no doubt that the immigration exhibitions, in the UK at least, give an unbalanced view of New Zealand and make it appear like some sort of eutopia with their 100% clean green image. Far from the truth I'm afraid as most rivers in New Zealand border on toxic and the lack of wildlife in the forests is eerie. You can literaly stand in most forests and not see or hear a single animal, including birds.


The issue with these forums was that they were totally biased towards the negative, and were never going to give a balanced view. 

Unfortunately it is too easy to take a grain of truth and blow it out of all proportion. I have never seen NZ as perfect - it does have it's issues - and you are right, there was a certain grain of truth in those forums. Unfortunately they took that grain and grew a wheat field! 

I truly hope that we do allow people to post the best and the worse of New Zealand here. What we _don't_ allow is the bullying and trolling that the members of those forums used to attempt over here.


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## topcat83

inhamilton said:


> NZ doesn't have native animals. Any that exist here are introduced, including humans. That's why NZ has so many birds that can't fly, because they didn't need to due to there being no mammal predators, until humans brought in rats, possums etc that is.
> As for there being no birds in the forests, that is just nonsense.


Actually there is one native mammal - a small bat. New Zealand bats: Native animal conservation. Ironic that the only mammal could fly and the birds couldn't! Oh - and don't forget the reptiles and frogs. http://www.doc.govt.nz/conservation/native-animals/reptiles-and-frogs/

And I must concur with the bird noise. We are surrounded by native birds where we live, which is on the edge of native bush. And last night was spent in Hamilton - and I couldn't believe the noise the Dawn Chorus was making!


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## Guest

I think an open, uncensored forum like this is excellent and allows all experiences to be validated whether positive or negative. Some people may have had very negative migration experiences and others very positive and we can't negate what they went thru because we didn't. But in saying that I think NZ is a highly sought after migration destination for a reason when weighed up against other options. It took some Philippino guests to remind me how clean and safe Auckland is recently and I felt quite privileged again to be reminded by outsiders of what I now take for granted.


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## mikesurf

inhamilton said:


> NZ doesn't have native animals. Any that exist here are introduced, including humans. That's why NZ has so many birds that can't fly, because they didn't need to due to there being no mammal predators, until humans brought in rats, possums etc that is.
> As for there being no birds in the forests, that is just nonsense.


Try standing in the Waitakere ranges for 5 minutes and listen, you won't hear or see anything, apart from a few hikers walking through. I know as we used to have a house right in the middle of it.


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## topcat83

mikesurf said:


> Try standing in the Waitakere ranges for 5 minutes and listen, you won't hear or see anything, apart from a few hikers walking through. I know as we used to have a house right in the middle of it.


I can't comment on the Waitaks except to say that it's not the whole of New Zealand. 

We live an hour south of Auckland. When walking through our bush we are usually surrounded by many fantails - lovely! And we also get many Tuis, Australasian Harriers and Shelducks. 

Oh - and flocks of wild turkeys & peacocks (not so native!) and the very annoying Pukeko, which look cute but are really aggressive. Pukeko attack bird walkers - environment | Stuff.co.nz


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## Guest

You just have to read the NZ Herald online to see that in terms of newsworthy items NZ news is a joke, and I mean that fondly. You will not be bombarded with the terrible internal news most countries have to cover and I think that speaks volumes about the place. I'm not allowed to make reference here by the moderator of a short blog I write but I recently wrote why Auckland has been been good to my wife and I and our 4 kids since emigrating from Cape Town 10 years ago and we didn't flee crime, violence or race issues, just wanted a calmer place with better employment prospects for my kids. Yes I could earn 30% more in Oz, yes I could return to CT to a more vibrant, energetic city but I have grown to love Auckland for what it's given my kids and now 2 grandkids born here, We are a middle class family on 1 income until 2010 when my wife started working after earning her bachelors degree in her 40's. We survive and don't starve. We afford treats. We go to movies, eat out and we walk the streets at night without fear. Not in low socio ec areas but then would you do that anywhere in the world? But even in the city centre or an evening stroll on the beach is very common. So don't ever let scaremongering be the reason for not coming to NZ. That should be the least of your considerations.


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## mikesurf

gbimmigration said:


> You just have to read the NZ Herald online to see that in terms of newsworthy items NZ news is a joke, and I mean that fondly. You will not be bombarded with the terrible internal news most countries have to cover and I think that speaks volumes about the place. I'm not allowed to make reference here by the moderator of a short blog I write but I recently wrote why Auckland has been been good to my wife and I and our 4 kids since emigrating from Cape Town 10 years ago and we didn't flee crime, violence or race issues, just wanted a calmer place with better employment prospects for my kids. Yes I could earn 30% more in Oz, yes I could return to CT to a more vibrant, energetic city but I have grown to love Auckland for what it's given my kids and now 2 grandkids born here, We are a middle class family on 1 income until 2010 when my wife started working after earning her bachelors degree in her 40's. We survive and don't starve. We afford treats. We go to movies, eat out and we walk the streets at night without fear. Not in low socio ec areas but then would you do that anywhere in the world? But even in the city centre or an evening stroll on the beach is very common. So don't ever let scaremongering be the reason for not coming to NZ. That should be the least of your considerations.


I can totally understand why any South African would find the level of crime in New Zealand to be nothing compared to your homeland. I guess everything is relative to your previous experiences in life. It may sound like not much but we had our house burgled, 2 cars stolen, 1 car broken into and the spare wheel of my 4 x 4 stolen, all within 1 year, so as you can imagine I was not too impressed with the level of crime in NZ.


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## Kimbella

mikesurf said:


> I can totally understand why any South African would find the level of crime in New Zealand to be nothing compared to your homeland. I guess everything is relative to your previous experiences in life. It may sound like not much but we had our house burgled, 2 cars stolen, 1 car broken into and the spare wheel of my 4 x 4 stolen, all within 1 year, so as you can imagine I was not too impressed with the level of crime in NZ.



By just about any first world standard, *violent* personal crime here is decidedly and refreshingly low here by modern markers. It definitely sounds like you've had a rough time of it where you are... but, we do need to be distinct between property crimes and crimes against persons. They are very different things. I don't mean to sound like I'm diminishing what you've been through, just saying we should be clear in our distinctions about the types of crimes that can be committed. I've never been the victim of any crime, neither here nor in the US, but I know that statistically I am at greater risk in the US (certain parts) of being the victim of a violent crime than I am here. 

It sounds pretty miserable where you are at, to be honest, I wouldn't like it either!


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## inhamilton

mikesurf said:


> It may sound like not much but we had our house burgled, 2 cars stolen, 1 car broken into and the spare wheel of my 4 x 4 stolen, all within 1 year, so as you can imagine I was not too impressed with the level of crime in NZ.


All the same, if I remember rightly, you live in France, a country that had 682 intentional homicides last year and are complaining about the crime rate in a country that had just 39 (NZ), according to the statistics on the old internet. Perhaps you need to be making more posts in the France forum, seeing how the crime rate there is something that directly affects you.


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## mikesurf

inhamilton said:


> All the same, if I remember rightly, you live in France, a country that had 682 intentional homicides last year and are complaining about the crime rate in a country that had just 39 (NZ), according to the statistics on the old internet. Perhaps you need to be making more posts in the France forum, seeing how the crime rate there is something that directly affects you.


That is very true, however I am commenting on my experiences in NZ due to this being the NZ forum. Every country has it's problems and I certainly would'nt say that France is without any. This was our experience while in NZ and it is the only place it has ever happened to us. I am not dissing the Kiwis or expats who decide to live there, I am only telling how it was for us.


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## mikesurf

inhamilton said:


> All the same, if I remember rightly, you live in France, a country that had 682 intentional homicides last year and are complaining about the crime rate in a country that had just 39 (NZ), according to the statistics on the old internet. Perhaps you need to be making more posts in the France forum, seeing how the crime rate there is something that directly affects you.


Also don't forget that there are 66.000.000 people living in France, I would say that balances the homicide rate out compared to NZ


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## inhamilton

mikesurf said:


> Also don't forget that there are 66.000.000 people living in France, I would say that balances the homicide rate out compared to NZ


Yes it does, but for intentional homicide, France's homicide rate per capita is still higher than New Zealand's. Although, I think a lot of crime stats are hard to compare because each country uses different criteria.


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## inhamilton

topcat83 said:


> I can't comment on the Waitaks except to say that it's not the whole of New Zealand.


Personally, I don't think it's anywhere in NZ. The Waitakere Ranges are actually being used for the Ark in the Park project, a kind of bird sanctuary. So far from it being 'toxic' it is seen as being a good place for bird relocation by NZ Forest and Bird.


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## kiwigser

*troll*

please remember that Mikesurf is our resident troll, who we tolerate. Just. He spends most of the time on NZ forum instead of France. Read some of the horror stories on that forum.


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## Guest

mikesurf said:


> I can totally understand why any South African would find the level of crime in New Zealand to be nothing compared to your homeland. I guess everything is relative to your previous experiences in life. It may sound like not much but we had our house burgled, 2 cars stolen, 1 car broken into and the spare wheel of my 4 x 4 stolen, all within 1 year, so as you can imagine I was not too impressed with the level of crime in NZ.


That's awful mikesurf. I have friends who were burgled several times in SA and then arrived in NZ and burgled within their first few weeks. But have been here over 10 years and never burgled again. So I am totally sympathetic if that has happened to you. And certainly there are some suburbs in Auckland that won't reflect where I live but my area is a high immigrant area and I think that some of the so-called "horror stories" I have read are just a bit over the top and not indicative of the kind of lifestyle we enjoy here in NZ and not fair to potential migrants. I think people who slag NZ need to go visit again overseas and get a taste of where people are coming from, and I don't just mean SA. In fact where I come from in Cape Town the only crime I ever experienced was a small break in once in 38 years so I am thankfully not one of the awful stories I so often hear about.


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## pmbpro

Speaking of burglaries, etc., I was wondering... 
Along the topic of what items to buy before moving there, would buying one of those good multi-camera security systems be worthwhile as well since they'd be much cheaper than in NZ?


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## Guest

I have a friend with an alarm business and could ask him the price of a home security camera system. You can Google Steve at wasp security and maybe do an email enquiry before you come to see. I am not a technical person so not the best to reply sorry. It is more common now for these but I don't know how many he installs.


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## Kimbella

kiwigser said:


> please remember that Mikesurf is our resident troll, who we tolerate. Just. He spends most of the time on NZ forum instead of France. Read some of the horror stories on that forum.



I'm going to have to agree with you on this one. I don't think his comments are intended to provoke people for sadistic pleasure (which is usually the motivation of 'normal' trolls), but I do think there is something pathological about being gone from a country for over half a decade, and still be lingering on the hardships experienced there. Most people who have moved on to a "better" life elsewhere would have long ago shed the dark shadow and moved out of grudge mode. There is something more going on underneath the comments, a protracted sense of disappointment or anger, maybe, that things didn't work out. 

Whatever it is, I can't help but be of the opinion that someone who hasn't lived here for 5 or more years really should be up front about that in their exchanges/comments, because their time AWAY from NZ directly affects how valid their experiences are *now*. What was 6 years ago, may well now be changed.

Just my two cents.


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## pmbpro

Kimbella said:


> *Whatever it is, I can't help but be of the opinion that someone who hasn't lived here for 5 or more years really should be up front about that in their exchanges/comments, *because their time AWAY from NZ directly affects how valid their experiences are *now*. What was 6 years ago, may well now be changed.
> 
> Just my two cents.



Wait... I'm confused.  I only went by the flags in his profile header (Originally from uk. Expat in newzealand), and Location says "UK". Had no idea about living in France.


I'm pretty new to the forum, and I'd been observing everyone's profile situations this way -- by the flags/location -- if visible, so I hope I didn't make any other mistaken assumptions about other members.


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## pmbpro

gbimmigration said:


> I have a friend with an alarm business and could ask him the price of a home security camera system. You can Google Steve at wasp security and maybe do an email enquiry before you come to see. I am not a technical person so not the best to reply sorry. It is more common now for these but I don't know how many he installs.


Thanks for that! I do have a (not-too-fancy) surveillance system for my home here that I'd could bring, but it's nice to compare prices for services.


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## Kimbella

pmbpro said:


> Wait... I'm confused.  I only went by the flags in his profile header (Originally from uk. Expat in newzealand), and Location says "UK". Had no idea about living in France.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty new to the forum, and I'd been observing everyone's profile situations this way -- by the flags/location -- if visible, so I hope I didn't make any other mistaken assumptions about other members.




Going by the comments and his admission in some of them, this particular person moved away from NZ 6 years ago and now lives in France. Someone gave him instructions on how to change his flag avatar, which he did not seem to want to do. 

While I agree that a whole spectrum of experiences are important to help people decide on where they want to go when they immigrate, purposeful misrepresentation while delivering outdated experiences is outright pathological, imo, its passive-aggressive twisting of facts. With the level of first-person (mis)guidance Mike presents in keeping his kiwi flag, then posting his firstr-person experiences, it clearly suggests that he still resides here, which apparently he has not, in over 6 years. 

In my opinion (and that's all it is), I would *never* trust someone who after six years has not recovered from their 'miserable' experience abroad, especially if they haven't been upfront about where they are currently, or how long they've been gone from the other country. If he can't be bothered to change his flag so people know he is no longer residing in NZ, and that his experiences are history from years gone past, I'd be hard pressed to be convinced of his objectivity in general about NZ. 

There's my other two cents.


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## mikesurf

Thanks folks for your two cents worth. Actually we left New Zealand last June not half a decade ago and yes maybe I will just forget about our experiences and let people just get on with it. It's been more a case of occassionally checking out the forum to see what people are talking about and putting my experiences into it, but yes I think you are right , time to move on.


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