# Selling a French House



## boilerman

Towards the end of April, we will be visiting our house in Normandy for probably the last time. We don't think we can cope with the extra expense of travel, dog health checks, upkeep of the house on our state pensions, and generally juggling two properties. Sorry, that's probably too much information for you. 
What I'd like to know, is, whats the cheapest way of selling our house after 20+ years. I know there will be capital gains to pay, thats fair enough, but can I just go with a Notaire, or do I have to go through an agent immobilier, and what fee's can I expect please.

PS, just remember the more information I can get, the quicker you can get rid of me😀, and it will make the admins life easier.

PPS, its not desperate that this happens this trip, but if it can, then at least I'll know, cheers.


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## wvdthree

I believe the agents fee is 6% if I'm not mistaken. Sorry you're having to sell up.There are many venues available to you to sell it yourself without and agent.


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## BraveHorse

If you don't live there, it would be very difficult not to use an agent immobilier.
There should not be any capital gains if you're not a French resident, and if you've owned the house many years.
For the best service, I'd recommend to avoid the big networks like Century 21, and go to a local real estate agency. Fee will be a percentage, getting lower as the price increases.


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## BackinFrance

If you had a sitting permanent tenant they would have the first option to buy, either, they have to be invited to make an offer which could be your asking price or a lower price that is acceptable to you, failing that they must be allowed to equal any offers you are considering'

Avoids agent's fees if you can find a suitable tenant and potentially inspections.
Agency agency fees agent fees 
You could also look into selling privately through pap.fr, no agency fees and they have lots of tools and information.

You will of course need to have the diagnostics done.

You don't need to leave the forum if you do decide to sell. 

Good luck.


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## Bevdeforges

You can, of course, engage a notaire to sell the property. Generally speaking, I think they tend to sell properties that are part of estates, but they can also sell regular properties, too. French notary, a real-estate expert
You're going to have to use a notaire anyhow for the eventual transfer. Might as well do an "all in one" deal on sales and marketing.


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## Clic Clac

Hello Boily. 

Sorry to hear you are thinking about selling. 
xM just sold our gaff and the buyer paid all the estate agency and notaire fees. 
I don't think she had anything to pay, apart from a Pro-rata cheque for the tax foncière. 
I'll check later for you. 

For the benefit of later followers, I've wondered about registering dogs at your French address, and getting them pet passports which were still accepted by the UK last time I checked. 

For CGT I would get tax planning advice (Rishi ? 😅). If you've kept a pile of receipts for repairs they may well be deductable.


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## suein56

boilerman said:


> Towards the end of April, we will be visiting our house in Normandy for probably the last time.
> What I'd like to know, is, whats the cheapest way of selling our house after 20+ years. I know there will be capital gains to pay, thats fair enough, *but can I just go with a Notaire, or do I have to go through an agent immobilier, and what fee's can I expect please.*


Yes .. Notaires sell houses, they usually charge around 4% of the price achieved for selling. They are knowledgeable about the CG situation too.
Unless they are very reactive the houses Notaires sell can be slower to be sold.
When you come over contact a few local estate agents .. ask them for a (verbal) estimate (that's free) .. houses are selling very well and quickly in most areas, especially if you have outside space.


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## rynd2it

boilerman said:


> Towards the end of April, we will be visiting our house in Normandy for probably the last time. We don't think we can cope with the extra expense of travel, dog health checks, upkeep of the house on our state pensions, and generally juggling two properties. Sorry, that's probably too much information for you.
> What I'd like to know, is, whats the cheapest way of selling our house after 20+ years. I know there will be capital gains to pay, thats fair enough, but can I just go with a Notaire, or do I have to go through an agent immobilier, and what fee's can I expect please.
> 
> PS, just remember the more information I can get, the quicker you can get rid of me😀, and it will make the admins life easier.
> 
> PPS, its not desperate that this happens this trip, but if it can, then at least I'll know, cheers.


It is normal for the buyer to pay all the fees, it shouldn't cost you anything to sell apart from the diagnostics. You can set the selling price at a value "net vendeur" which is what you would receive when it sells. Given that the big chain agents tend to charge higher prices, that would seem to be the way to go to maximise your return. Good luck


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## Crabtree

Yes buyer pays all fees Seller will need to get a fosse septique pass/fail certificate and the diagnostics Personally I would go through an agent as they need to sell to get their money whereas a notaire does not.This will help with CGT








Impôt sur le revenu - Plus-value immobilière


La plus-value que vous réalisez en vendant un bien immobilier est imposable, sauf s'il s'agit de votre résidence principale. Vous pouvez bénéficier d'exonérations selon les caractéristiques du bien ou votre situation personnelle.




www.service-public.fr


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## BraveHorse

I don't know if there's a capital gain tax to pay in your home country, but I'm sure there won't be any in France if you're not a French resident.


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## conky2

BraveHorse said:


> I don't know if there's a capital gain tax to pay in your home country, but I'm sure there won't be any in France if you're not a French resident.



You pay cgt on a second home, French resident or otherwise, but after 20 years there would be nothing to pay. The tax reduces on a sliding scale, I think for 10 year sownership but starts from year 5 so after 15 years you pay nothing.

That's how it was for the first home I sold in 2009.


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## BackinFrance

conky2 said:


> You pay cgt on a second home, French resident or otherwise, but after 20 years there would be nothing to pay. The tax reduces on a sliding scale, I think for 10 year sownership but starts from year 5 so after 15 years you pay nothing.
> 
> That's how it was for the first home I sold in 2009.


That sounds about right.


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## tardigrade

Thru a notaire or real estate agent you will not be able to "sell to a young french family" as to your wish/want.. The only way that works is selling yourself.


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## BackinFrance

tardigrade said:


> Thru a notaire or real estate agent you will not be able to "sell to a young french family" as to your wish/want.. The only way that works is selling the .


Whilst it may be easier for the OP to sell privately in order to achieve that end, nothing obliges the OP to accept an offer and if he wants to sell to someone he considers to be needy he can do so, even though an offer at the asking price is generally considered to be the offer that should be accepted (there are many ways to get around that, such as withdrawing the property temporarily from the market). With regard to your post on another thread, there is no such race as French.


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## boilerman

Thanks everyone, much appreciated. As travel is restrictive, both in distance and 90/180 day rule, I will probably have a word with the notaire in the first place, just to see what possibilities there are with him, if that doesn't suit us then, I'd go with an independent immobilier . We are in no hurry to sell, especially as I'd prefer selling to a French person. Thanks BIF.
Selling private, to a French person, may become awkward, as we're not fluent in French.
I presume the notaire will direct me with the diagnostic checks, and we're on the main sewage system so that should be ok.
What exactly is the extent of the diagnostics? Would a 3phase electrical supply be a problem for instance, and the plumbing in the part converted loft is done with Uk size pipework. (We were never going to sell) I would leave a selection of uk/french adaptors


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## tardigrade

the diagnostics might say "does not comply" to your UK plumbing in France. In the buyers mind they will be thinking of the cost to make it comply and your selling price.


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## tardigrade

Whether the diagnostics include the plumbing fixtures or not I would make it known to the potential buyer as that could haunt you down the line.


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## BackinFrance

boilerman said:


> Thanks everyone, much appreciated. As travel is restrictive, both in distance and 90/180 day rule, I will probably have a word with the notaire in the first place, just to see what possibilities there are with him, if that doesn't suit us then, I'd go with an independent immobilier . We are in no hurry to sell, especially as I'd prefer selling to a French person. Thanks BIF.
> Selling private, to a French person, may become awkward, as we're not fluent in French.
> I presume the notaire will direct me with the diagnostic checks, and we're on the main sewage system so that should be ok.
> What exactly is the extent of the diagnostics? Would a 3phase electrical supply be a problem for instance, and the plumbing in the part converted loft is done with Uk size pipework. (We were never going to sell) I would leave a selection of uk/french adaptors


The diagnostics will show that the electrical system is non-compliant and probably that the property needs rewiring, which is very expensive. Same goes for the plumbing, but that is less costly. Potential buyers will take that into account when making an offer.


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## boilerman

BackinFrance said:


> The diagnostics will show that the electrical system is non-compliant and probably that the property needs rewiring, which is very expensive. Same goes for the plumbing, but that is less costly. Potential buyers will take that into account when making an offer.


Thanks BIF, its what I'd expect, I suppose

So, is 3phase no good at all. Seems like a good system to me. In the UK it would be a rarity in a domestic dwelling.


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## BackinFrance

boilerman said:


> Thanks BIF, its what I'd expect, I suppose
> 
> So, is 3phase no good at all. Seems like a good system to me. In the UK it would be a rarity in a domestic dwelling.











3 Phase electricity France


3 phase electricity in France - what does it mean? Is it a problem, what do I do to change it? Your questions answered by our expert electrician in France.




thegoodlifefrance.com





Does that help? At least you could get an idea of the cost to change it over.


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## conky2

boilerman said:


> Thanks BIF, its what I'd expect, I suppose
> 
> So, is 3phase no good at all. Seems like a good system to me. In the UK it would be a rarity in a domestic dwelling.


I have no technical knowledge on this at all, but I don't believe that 3phase is a problem in itself, rather than you did it yourself and are not registered ....that is my take.

Just seen BiF's post so not sure if that changes things.


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## BraveHorse

conky2 said:


> You pay cgt on a second home, French resident or otherwise, but after 20 years there would be nothing to pay. The tax reduces on a sliding scale, I think for 10 year sownership but starts from year 5 so after 15 years you pay nothing.
> 
> That's how it was for the first home I sold in 2009.


I repeat, you don't pay any CGT if you're not a French resident. I've sold 2 properties in France, and I haven't paid anything.


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## conky2

BraveHorse said:


> I repeat, you don't pay any CGT if you're not a French resident. I've sold 2 properties in France, and I haven't paid anything.


Well I did so yah boo sucks...........


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## boilerman

conky2 said:


> I have no technical knowledge on this at all, but I don't believe that 3phase is a problem in itself, rather than you did it yourself and are not registered ....that is my take.
> 
> Just seen BiF's post so not sure if that changes things.


No Mr C, it was already installed when we bought the place. Although I did change the fuse board, for the safer circuit breakers, so that might not comply, is that right?


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## conky2

boilerman said:


> No Mr C, it was already installed when we bought the place. Although I did change the fuse board, for the safer circuit breakers, so that might not comply, is that right?


No idea boiler, I guess you will be at the mercy of the report.....


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## boilerman

conky2 said:


> No idea boiler, I guess you will be at the mercy of the report.....


OK, but if, as you say, I won't have to pay CGT, then the hit won't be so bad, if it does need a rewire. 
I'll ask the locals when we get there, if they can recommend a sparky to have a butchers. Thanks.


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## Bevdeforges

BraveHorse said:


> I repeat, you don't pay any CGT if you're not a French resident. I've sold 2 properties in France, and I haven't paid anything.


Best approach would be to speak to the Notaire. It's possible that the notaire simply takes out any CGT or other taxes due from non-residents as part of the transfer process.

And, as far as 3-phase is concerned, that shouldn't be a problem in and of itself. We have 3-phase power and have had for ages - in fact it's probably going to become more popular with folks changing over to electric vehicles. Evidently, it's possible to charge an EV overnight on house current with a 3 phase system. Charging with a single phase system takes a whole lot longer.


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## conky2

Bevdeforges said:


> It's possible that the notaire simply takes out any CGT or other taxes due from non-residents as part of the transfer process.



Yup, the notaire did the calculation and deducted the sum from the final proceeds.


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## boilerman

BackinFrance said:


> 3 Phase electricity France
> 
> 
> 3 phase electricity in France - what does it mean? Is it a problem, what do I do to change it? Your questions answered by our expert electrician in France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thegoodlifefrance.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does that help? At least you could get an idea of the cost to change it over.


Thats great thanks BIF


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## BackinFrance

Your UK power points are non-"compliant.

If you did wiring yourself with UK wiring, that may also be non-compliant.

Re the fuse box, even if you bought it in France it would probably be non-compliant if purchased 3 decades ago, but if purchased in the UK I believe it would be non-compliant.

Your best way forward is probably to get a French qualified electrician to do a check and give you a devis (quote) even if you have to pay for his or her time to do so. The quote would come in useful anyway when you put the home on the market and during negotiations.

The worst thing you can do is not to make the issues known because that would be a vice cachée under French law.


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## boilerman

BackinFrance said:


> Your UK power points are non-"compliant.
> 
> If you did wiring yourself with UK wiring, that may also be non-compliant.
> 
> Re the fuse box, even if you bought it in France it would probably be non-compliant if purchased 3 decades ago, but if purchased in the UK I believe it would be non-compliant.
> 
> Your best way forward is probably to get a French qualified electrician to do a check and give you a devis (quote) even if you have to pay for his or her time to do so. The quote would come in useful anyway when you put the home on the market and during negotiations.
> 
> The worst thing you can do is not to make the issues known because that would be a vice cachée under French law.


Thanks BIF, most of the power sockets, are the original French one, there's a couple upstairs which are easily changed. The fuseboard/box, is one I brought from the UK, so yes, thats probably not to standard. I did use some UK cable in the very first place, until I found out is was no good, then bought cable locally.. Your're right, I'll find a local sparky and he can guide me, and the quote will be handy.
I believe in Karma, so I wont be keeping any secrets about the place. It is what it is, warts an all, and the UK could learn a thing or two about disclosure, especially when selling houses.
In my defence, as I said before, we were never going to sell, then Brexit happened, then certain peoples health happened, now other things are going on.
I'm going to look pretty stupid, when we get there, and it turns out we cant live without the place, but I doubt it. I need one of Bezo's rockets to get us there easier


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## BackinFrance

Yes, I understand all that and I am sorry things are going so badly for you, but at least the electrical are nowhere near as bad as they might have been.

Unfortunately all thaese aclathings, including the lack of double glazing will reduce the price you will achieve, but there is always the right buyer out there. And I believe you have now owned the place long enough that you won't have to pay CGT.

And who knows you might manage to come back once in a while and stay in someone else's holiday home thanks to the proceeds from the sale. Though I realise that travelling from where you live in the UK is not easy. 

Anyway, I wish you and your wife all the best. Please be sure to keep us posted. 

I hope


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## EuroTrash

BraveHorse said:


> I repeat, you don't pay any CGT if you're not a French resident. I've sold 2 properties in France, and I haven't paid anything.



The logic that you are non resident and you didn't pay CGT therefore non residents are exempt, is just the same logic as tables have four legs, my dog has four legs, etc.

There are various reasons why you may have been exempt. But being non resident does not in itself constitute a reason.









Non résident : imposition sur les plus values immobilières


En tant que non résident, vous avez peut être céder des immeubles en France. Vous êtes soumis à l'imposition des plus values immobilières.




www.patrimea.com


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## BackinFrance

Boilerman if the market is str where your house is, you may be inundated with offers, but remember that you cannot as the seller back out once the compromis is signed. And in the case of a formal 'promesse' neither the seller nor the buyer can back out. If the market is strong, I would suggest you NOT enter into a 'promesse' anyhow.


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## boilerman

BackinFrance said:


> Boilerman if the market is str where your house is, you may be inundated with offers, but remember that you cannot as the seller back out once the compromis is signed. And in the case of a formal 'promesse' neither the seller nor the buyer can back out. If the market is strong, I would suggest you NOT enter into a 'promesse' anyhow.


Thanks BIF especially post 32 This is great information for us to consider. I needed reminding about the no going back clause, because we found ourselves, as buyers, with a similar problem. Well it wasn't a problem in the end, because we really wanted the house. Anyway, I didnt ask for diagnostics as we'd walked into every room, as saw the first hand what it was like. Loved the windows and still do, anything else that was needed, I wrongly thought that I could do. I didnt know that my training as a sparky, and doing extensive plumbing work, would mean nothing. Still lifes for learning eh.

One point about always wanting to sell to a French person(and I still do) is that because Barneville is just a holiday resort, there's hardly anything else going on around there. Its dead in the winter as all the second home owners retreat back from where they came. So, I'm not sure, if a, not well off, French person could afford to buy the place, as Its gone up in price in the last couple of years. Which was a shock to us. We didnt buy the place as an investment, just somewhere to holiday, and then pass it on to the kids. Like I said things have changed now.


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## tardigrade

boilerman said:


> Thanks BIF especially post 32 This is great information for us to consider. I needed reminding about the no going back clause, because we found ourselves, as buyers, with a similar problem. Well it wasn't a problem in the end, because we really wanted the house. Anyway, I didnt ask for diagnostics as we'd walked into every room, as saw the first hand what it was like. Loved the windows and still do, anything else that was needed, I wrongly thought that I could do. I didnt know that my training as a sparky, and doing extensive plumbing work, would mean nothing. Still lifes for learning eh.


That training was in another country, with different ways of doing it (codes); including a measuring system. Metric & imperial.

Your lesson learned will/could help a newcomer arriving on these shores or other so bravo for posting.


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## boilerman

tardigrade said:


> That training was in another country, with different ways of doing it (codes); including a measuring system. Metric & imperial.
> 
> *Your lesson learned will/could help a newcomer arriving on these shores *or other so bravo for posting.


Finally, we can agree


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## Ricwolfe

Having just sold after 3 years of trying, best of luck, you will need it.


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