# UK Spousal visa after entering with EEA Family Permit?



## Stephan76 (Apr 10, 2012)

Hello Forum,

I'm a US citizen currently living in London with my IRL citizen wife. I came over here 3 months ago on an EEA Family Permit but have not yet applied for my residence card. I know that with her being an IRL citizen we had the option of applying for either an EEA Family Permit or UK Spouse Visa. We chose the EEA Family Permit as it was cheaper and seemed like less of a hassle to get. 

We had originally just planned on my applying for the EEA2 residence card but I have recently come to realize that that means I will then be without my passport for 4 months while we wait for the residence card. (I of course all along knew I'd have to give up my passport while waiting for the residence card, I did not realize that it would actually take that long. I'd assumed that up to 6 months, which is what they say on the website, was more of a worst-case-scenario time scale. But perusing this and other similar boards has told me that others have waited even up to the full 6 months). I am scared to give up my passport for this long for a number of reasons including the fact that I travel very often for work and not least of which is the fact that I have elderly relatives in the US and may need to go back at a moment's notice. 

So on to the crux of my question: can I now apply for the UK Spousal Visa while here in the UK on an EEA Family Permit? OR do I need to leave the UK to apply for this type of visa (and if so, do I need to apply from within the US)? Is there any reason (other than the cost and hassle) that I should *not* be applying for the UK Spousal Visa now? Does it look bad to the UKBA that I already have an EEA Family Permit but now am applying for a different type of visa?

Thank you for your time.

Best,
Stephan


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Stephan76 said:


> Hello Forum,
> 
> I'm a US citizen currently living in London with my IRL citizen wife. I came over here 3 months ago on an EEA Family Permit but have not yet applied for my residence card. I know that with her being an IRL citizen we had the option of applying for either an EEA Family Permit or UK Spouse Visa. We chose the EEA Family Permit as it was cheaper and seemed like less of a hassle to get.
> 
> ...


When you apply for your residence card on EEA2, you will first get a certificate of application (a kind of letter), which confirms your legal status in UK as family member of an EEA citizen. And yes, it's true that average processing time for EEA2 is 3-4 months. If you then need to travel before your card is issued, you can request your passport back (which can take up to 5 days), while your application stays in the pipeline. When they are ready to issue your residence card (in fact a sticker in your passport), they will normally ask you to send in your passport. Problem with this is if your EEA family permit expires while you are abroad, strictly speaking you need to get another permit before returning to UK, because the certificate of application isn't considered a sufficient travel document. You may be lucky and they may let you in, but you can't count on it.

While you could have entered UK on spouse visa, you can't normally change tracks after entering UK with EEA family permit. So there is no option for you to apply for further leave to remain as spouse (switching), unless you are willing to return home to US and apply for spouse visa there. There is a very high fee of $1363 plus $12 carriage, and you need all the supporting documents to show you meet the requirements.


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## Stephan76 (Apr 10, 2012)

Thank you very much for the quick and thorough response.

I am now not sure which request to make (flying back to the US plus the UK Spousal visa fee will equal upwards of $2000 which is a lot). Another question if you do not mind: if I request my passport and for some reason end up outside the UK (most likely in the US) when my EEA family permit expires, could I just apply for a visitor visa? Or would I not be qualified for one since I would not be at that point a visitor?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Stephan76 said:


> Thank you very much for the quick and thorough response.
> 
> I am now not sure which request to make (flying back to the US plus the UK Spousal visa fee will equal upwards of $2000 which is a lot). Another question if you do not mind: if I request my passport and for some reason end up outside the UK (most likely in the US) when my EEA family permit expires, could I just apply for a visitor visa? Or would I not be qualified for one since I would not be at that point a visitor?


No, as an American you don't need a visitor visa but you can't re-enter UK as a visitor, as you are living here. You'll have to get another EEA family permit from British consulate where you are staying (it doesn't have to be in US). You need to meet the procedural requirement applicable for that particular consulate, such as making an appointment, online application, getting biometrics done and carrying supporting documents. In US, the turnaround time is around 10 to 14 days.


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## Stephan76 (Apr 10, 2012)

That is really helpful, thank you.


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## softatlas (Sep 4, 2012)

*Working abroad with EEA Permit*

Hey Joppa, can you please help? I'm in a similar situation...I've already applied for a spouse visa in the UK and have waited 8 months for the approval. I've had a job offer in Moscow working 3 weeks on/3 weeks off. As I'm about to lose this opportunity waiting for my passport. I have decided to withdraw my application. My husband and I currently live in the UK and on each of my 3 weeks off, I'd plan to return to the UK to be with him. Upon withdrawing my spouse application, what would be the best option. Apply for an EEA family permit and a residence card? I know the residence card takes 3-4 months at least, but I work every 3 weeks out of the country...do you know if there is anyway to continue travelling for work without having to reapply for new family permits and residence cards each time? Can I apply without a passport and send it to them when they are ready for my vignette? Alternatively, would it be better just to be granted the typical tourist visas every 3 weeks as I wouldn't be working and just staying with my husband. In addition, should I tell them I'm there to see my husband or to visit friends if I'm on a tourist visa? I don't know the best way around this. I'm American, he's Italian. 

Thanks




Joppa said:


> When you apply for your residence card on EEA2, you will first get a certificate of application (a kind of letter), which confirms your legal status in UK as family member of an EEA citizen. And yes, it's true that average processing time for EEA2 is 3-4 months. If you then need to travel before your card is issued, you can request your passport back (which can take up to 5 days), while your application stays in the pipeline. When they are ready to issue your residence card (in fact a sticker in your passport), they will normally ask you to send in your passport. Problem with this is if your EEA family permit expires while you are abroad, strictly speaking you need to get another permit before returning to UK, because the certificate of application isn't considered a sufficient travel document. You may be lucky and they may let you in, but you can't count on it.
> 
> While you could have entered UK on spouse visa, you can't normally change tracks after entering UK with EEA family permit. So there is no option for you to apply for further leave to remain as spouse (switching), unless you are willing to return home to US and apply for spouse visa there. There is a very high fee of $1363 plus $12 carriage, and you need all the supporting documents to show you meet the requirements.


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## softatlas (Sep 4, 2012)

One last question...can I apply for an EEA family permit wherever I am, regardless of what type of visa I'm on (say a tourist visa)? So for example, if I fly to Italy on a tourist visa, can I apply for an EEA family permit there and come back to the UK?

Cheers!



Joppa said:


> When you apply for your residence card on EEA2, you will first get a certificate of application (a kind of letter), which confirms your legal status in UK as family member of an EEA citizen. And yes, it's true that average processing time for EEA2 is 3-4 months. If you then need to travel before your card is issued, you can request your passport back (which can take up to 5 days), while your application stays in the pipeline. When they are ready to issue your residence card (in fact a sticker in your passport), they will normally ask you to send in your passport. Problem with this is if your EEA family permit expires while you are abroad, strictly speaking you need to get another permit before returning to UK, because the certificate of application isn't considered a sufficient travel document. You may be lucky and they may let you in, but you can't count on it.
> 
> While you could have entered UK on spouse visa, you can't normally change tracks after entering UK with EEA family permit. So there is no option for you to apply for further leave to remain as spouse (switching), unless you are willing to return home to US and apply for spouse visa there. There is a very high fee of $1363 plus $12 carriage, and you need all the supporting documents to show you meet the requirements.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

softatlas said:


> Hey Joppa, can you please help? I'm in a similar situation...I've already applied for a spouse visa in the UK and have waited 8 months for the approval. I've had a job offer in Moscow working 3 weeks on/3 weeks off. As I'm about to lose this opportunity waiting for my passport. I have decided to withdraw my application. My husband and I currently live in the UK and on each of my 3 weeks off, I'd plan to return to the UK to be with him. Upon withdrawing my spouse application, what would be the best option. Apply for an EEA family permit and a residence card? I know the residence card takes 3-4 months at least, but I work every 3 weeks out of the country...do you know if there is anyway to continue travelling for work without having to reapply for new family permits and residence cards each time? Can I apply without a passport and send it to them when they are ready for my vignette? Alternatively, would it be better just to be granted the typical tourist visas every 3 weeks as I wouldn't be working and just staying with my husband. In addition, should I tell them I'm there to see my husband or to visit friends if I'm on a tourist visa? I don't know the best way around this. I'm American, he's Italian.


What kind of a visa are you on at the moment? Has your husband lived in UK for 5 years? If not, you shouldn't have applied for a spouse visa as your husband isn't regarded as 'settled' until he's lived here for 5 years. You should have applied for EEA family permit as wife of an EEA citizen. Or if you have been legally resident in UK on another visa, you could have gone straight for residence card.

As for your job offer in Moscow, EEA family permit is valid for 6 months at a time (and multiple-entry), so you can get a new permit when about to expire, in Moscow for free. Or just apply for residence card now on Form EEA2. You can request your passport back while you wait for the card, though travelling without valid residence card means you have no other documentary, official proof of your status under EU law.


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## softatlas (Sep 4, 2012)

I was originally here on a student visa and applied for a spouse visa. My husband has been here for 5 years. Since my passport is currently with the UKBA, and my visa has not yet been approved (my student visa expired), perhaps I should go back to the US, apply for an EEA family permit, return to the UK and apply for the residence document and travel back and forth to Russia as needed until the permit expires...then just renew it in Russia. Does that sound legal/logical? Then, am I right to say that I'd be able to return to the UK as often as I need once the permit is approved, without a visa? 



Joppa said:


> What kind of a visa are you on at the moment? Has your husband lived in UK for 5 years? If not, you shouldn't have applied for a spouse visa as your husband isn't regarded as 'settled' until he's lived here for 5 years. You should have applied for EEA family permit as wife of an EEA citizen. Or if you have been legally resident in UK on another visa, you could have gone straight for residence card.
> 
> As for your job offer in Moscow, EEA family permit is valid for 6 months at a time (and multiple-entry), so you can get a new permit when about to expire, in Moscow for free. Or just apply for residence card now on Form EEA2. You can request your passport back while you wait for the card, though travelling without valid residence card means you have no other documentary, official proof of your status under EU law.


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## softatlas (Sep 4, 2012)

The other question is...if I travelled to Italy and had no valid permit or visa (other than tourist visa) would I be able to apply for an EEA permit from Italy?

You are very helpful...thank you so much. 




softatlas said:


> I was originally here on a student visa and applied for a spouse visa. My husband has been here for 5 years. Since my passport is currently with the UKBA, and my visa has not yet been approved (my student visa expired), perhaps I should go back to the US, apply for an EEA family permit, return to the UK and apply for the residence document and travel back and forth to Russia as needed until the permit expires...then just renew it in Russia. Does that sound legal/logical? Then, am I right to say that I'd be able to return to the UK as often as I need once the permit is approved, without a visa?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

softatlas said:


> I was originally here on a student visa and applied for a spouse visa. My husband has been here for 5 years. Since my passport is currently with the UKBA, and my visa has not yet been approved (my student visa expired), perhaps I should go back to the US, apply for an EEA family permit, return to the UK and apply for the residence document and travel back and forth to Russia as needed until the permit expires...then just renew it in Russia. Does that sound legal/logical? Then, am I right to say that I'd be able to return to the UK as often as I need once the permit is approved, without a visa?


Yes, that seems a workable plan.



> The other question is...if I travelled to Italy and had no valid permit or visa (other than tourist visa) would I be able to apply for an EEA permit from Italy?


Yes, you can apply for EEA family permit in any country. The only fly in the ointment is you have to follow the procedure laid down for applying for entry clearance in Italy, which involves travelling to Rome, submitting your application and giving your biometrics at the UK consulate, and then you wait for your permit to be issued. Latest info is it's taking around 3 weeks, and you just have to stay put (as you don't have your passport).


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## softatlas (Sep 4, 2012)

*Joppa*

Joppa, you are truly a champ. Thank you for all the info! I'm going to apply in Italy then!


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## softatlas (Sep 4, 2012)

Would I have to go to the British consulate/embassy in Rome for both the EEA and EEA2 permits?



softatlas said:


> Joppa, you are truly a champ. Thank you for all the info! I'm going to apply in Italy then!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

softatlas said:


> Would I have to go to the British consulate/embassy in Rome for both the EEA and EEA2 permits?


No. Only EEA family permit can be applied outside UK. EEA2 in UK only.


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## peterandyana (Jul 17, 2012)

Hello Joppa, I wonder if I can ask some specific, but similar, questions in relation my own circumstances in order I can be confident that I am understanding all research correctly?

I am a UK citizen and currently live in an EU country with my wife (non EEA national), I came here specifically to exercise my treaty rights as a self sufficient individual (ie: I continue to run my business via internet/emails etc) through means of self employment in the UK. 

We both have appointments with the immigration department here in the host country after giving 2 months notice for applying for residency permits, myself under MEU1A and my wife under MEU2A. Once these interviews are complete do the "certificate of residence" stamps, which are generally given either at the (in person) interview or shortly afterwards, act as the "EEA family permit" which in turn allows access to the UK when I take my wife back with me to visit family at the start of next year? 

(it is my understanding that all EU citizens have a 3 month right of entry to other EU countries and that this right is afforded to their family members also regardless of nationality provided they have the residence permit issued by the host country that they reside in)

Additionally, can you also advise that under the Surrinder Singh rules, if after 3 months of exercising treaty rights in another EU country, whilst having the "certificate of residence" stamp in my wife's passport, can I/we then return to the UK permanently even though I have only been exercising treaty rights as "self sufficient through UK self employment"? or would I actually have to be working (or self employed) within the host EU country during the 3 months (or more) period.

I understand from research that regardless of being eligible for the surrinder singh rules of returning permanently to the UK, we can however make visits provided they are for no longer than the 3 month initial visit period.

I thank you in advance Joppa for your kind assistance

Peter


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

peterandyana said:


> Hello Joppa, I wonder if I can ask some specific, but similar, questions in relation my own circumstances in order I can be confident that I am understanding all research correctly?
> 
> I am a UK citizen and currently live in an EU country with my wife (non EEA national), I came here specifically to exercise my treaty rights as a self sufficient individual (ie: I continue to run my business via internet/emails etc) through means of self employment in the UK.
> 
> ...


I don't think your wife is eligible for entry under Surinder Singh rule as you aren't exercising your treaty rights in Cyprus in an economic capacity, which specifically means working or being self-employed there, not running a UK business. You will need to provide a Cypriot employment contract or registration for self-employment in Cyprus, plus payment of local taxes as employed/self-employed:

_After leaving the United Kingdom, the British national resided in an EEA state and –
Was employed there (other than on a transient or casual basis); or
Established him/herself there as a self-employed person._

Home Office interprets these rules strictly and won't allow any exceptions.

As for bringing your wife as a visitor under EU rules, that only applies to non-UK EEA countries. Other than under Surinder Singh, your wife must meet UK immigration rule about visa etc.


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## peterandyana (Jul 17, 2012)

Joppa said:


> I don't think your wife is eligible for entry under Surinder Singh rule as you aren't exercising your treaty rights in Cyprus in an economic capacity, which specifically means working or being self-employed there, not running a UK business. You will need to provide a Cypriot employment contract or registration for self-employment in Cyprus, plus payment of local taxes as employed/self-employed:
> 
> _After leaving the United Kingdom, the British national resided in an EEA state and –
> Was employed there (other than on a transient or casual basis); or
> ...



Hello again Joppa and thanks for getting back to me, so even if my wife secures a certificate of residency (EEA family permit) from the host country then she will not be allowed to enter the UK? does this not go against what an EEA permit actually represents, in that this document allows entry to all european union countries for the individual?

It was also my understanding that provided i am self sufficient in the host country, regardless of the fact the self sufficiency comes from my earnings through work in the UK, that I am in fact still exercising treaty rights. is this incorrect?

thank you again for your help in clarification for me


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## peterandyana (Jul 17, 2012)

additionally Joppa, is it not the case that provided my wife has a valid EEA RC and travels back to the UK with me personally then she is actually legally entitled to enter the UK?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

peterandyana said:


> Hello again Joppa and thanks for getting back to me, so even if my wife secures a certificate of residency (EEA family permit) from the host country then she will not be allowed to enter the UK? does this not go against what an EEA permit actually represents, in that this document allows entry to all european union countries for the individual?


No, because you are a British citizen. You can only exercise your treaty right in a country you aren't a citizen of. In UK, you and your wife will be subject to UK immigration rule, and if she needs a visa, she has to obtain one in advance. Now within Schengen area, things work differently, in that a residence permit for one country allows you to stay in other Schengen states for 90-in-180 days, but UK isn't part of it. The only exception is if you are eligible to bring your wife in under Surinder Singh.



> It was also my understanding that provided i am self sufficient in the host country, regardless of the fact the self sufficiency comes from my earnings through work in the UK, that I am in fact still exercising treaty rights. is this incorrect?


I'm afraid you are under a misapprehension. Self-sufficiency isn't regarded as exercising treaty rights in an *economic capacity*, and without actual self-employment or running a business in Cyprus, you won't be eligible. Surinder Singh rule is based on a particular ruling by the European court, and only applies to those in specific cases (Mr Singh's wife, a British national, went with him to Germany to work, and tried to bring him to UK later under EU rule). Otherwise a lot more people would be able to bring in non-EEA family members, circumventing national immigration law.
Now if you can get a job or do self-employment in Cyprus - it doesn't have to be highly paid - then you should stand a chance. But it has to be a proper job/self-employment, with contract, accounts, paying local income tax etc. Or if you can transfer your business to Cyprus temporarily but officially.


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## peterandyana (Jul 17, 2012)

Joppa said:


> No, because you are a British citizen. You can only exercise your treaty right in a country you aren't a citizen of. In UK, you and your wife will be subject to UK immigration rule, and if she needs a visa, she has to obtain one in advance. Now within Schengen area, things work differently, in that a residence permit for one country allows you to stay in other Schengen states for 90-in-180 days, but UK isn't part of it. The only exception is if you are eligible to bring your wife in under Surinder Singh.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Joppa, I really appreciate all of this help and assistance you are giving me/us, so just to clarify matters, if say tomorrow I instruct one of these company formations companies to set me up as a limited company here in Cyprus and whom I believe can have it in full operation within a period of 2 weeks, will this be enough to obtain eligibility under the Surrinder Singh rules?....i will of course try and make the business work here but there is no guarantees it will secure income and/or work prior to the time that we intend to go back to the UK for the visit early next year however, it will be over the 3 month period of exercising treaty rights in order to qualify - can you confirm that this is correct?

Also, one more thing Joppa, and this is purely on the basis that you may indeed know the answer to this but if I make my wife a director of the proposed company here in the host country, does this secure residency status for her?

once again Joppa, thanking you in advance for all advice given here


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

peterandyana said:


> Joppa, I really appreciate all of this help and assistance you are giving me/us, so just to clarify matters, if say tomorrow I instruct one of these company formations companies to set me up as a limited company here in Cyprus and whom I believe can have it in full operation within a period of 2 weeks, will this be enough to obtain eligibility under the Surrinder Singh rules?....i will of course try and make the business work here but there is no guarantees it will secure income and/or work prior to the time that we intend to go back to the UK for the visit early next year however, it will be over the 3 month period of exercising treaty rights in order to qualify - can you confirm that this is correct?


I would imagine the visa officer in Cyprus will check up on the legitimacy of your enterprise and financial report before issuing EEA family permit. Can you work as a consultant or something for a long-established business in Cyprus?



> Also, one more thing Joppa, and this is purely on the basis that you may indeed know the answer to this but if I make my wife a director of the proposed company here in the host country, does this secure residency status for her?


Her residency is entirely dependent on your exercising treaty rights in Cyprus.


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## peterandyana (Jul 17, 2012)

Joppa said:


> I would imagine the visa officer in Cyprus will check up on the legitimacy of your enterprise and financial report before issuing EEA family permit. Can you work as a consultant or something for a long-established business in Cyprus?


In that regard Joppa, what is to say that it is not a legitimate business? If I am actively seeking work for the company then with our without success (financial profit) it is a still in theory a 'working business' - in regards consultancy, I am unaware of any business over here who could employ me in that basis. It is therefore probably best to register as self employed or move my uk company to here?


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## peterandyana (Jul 17, 2012)

Joppa, lets say in theory I am issued a category F immigration permit which allows me a residence permit for 5 years in host country, is my wife not therefore automatically entitled to apply for eea rc status in the host country as she is my wife and that we would both be living here?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

peterandyana said:


> Joppa, lets say in theory I am issued a category F immigration permit which allows me a residence permit for 5 years in host country, is my wife not therefore automatically entitled to apply for eea rc status in the host country as she is my wife and that we would both be living here?


Yes, of course. But you were asking me whether your wife becoming a director in a business you set up will enable her to obtain a residence permit. Her residence is 100% dependent on your status as EEA national, and her getting a job in Cyprus is immaterial.



> In that regard Joppa, what is to say that it is not a legitimate business? If I am actively seeking work for the company then with our without success (financial profit) it is a still in theory a 'working business' - in regards consultancy, I am unaware of any business over here who could employ me in that basis. It is therefore probably best to register as self employed or move my uk company to here?


What I am saying is if they suspect the company you set up in Cyprus is purely for the purpose of enabling her to obtain EEA family permit, they may refuse. Working for an existing, established business in Cyprus will be by far the easier option (other than getting a job!), but moving your business to Cyprus may also be an option.


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## peterandyana (Jul 17, 2012)

thank you Joppa, I think I am understanding the situation more clearer now


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## peterandyana (Jul 17, 2012)

just one final thing Joppa, I found the following information at this web site 

EU – Travel documents for non-EU family members – Your Europe      

If you are an EU national but you have family members who are not, they can accompany or join you in another EU country. They must carry a valid passport at all times and, depending on the country they are from, may also have to show an entry visa at the border.

Your non-EU spouse, (grand)parents or (grand)children do not need to get a visa from the country they are travelling to if:

1) the country they are travelling to belongs to the passport-free Schengen area (see list below) and they have a residence permit or visa from another country in that area, or
2) they are travelling with you or travelling to join you and have a residence card issued by any EU country (except the country you are a national of).

So if reading the above correctly, provided that my wife actually has a cypriot issued EEA RC permit via my own residency status then is it not correct that she can in fact travel back to the UK with me for a short visit?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

peterandyana said:


> just one final thing Joppa, I found the following information at this web site
> 
> EU – Travel documents for non-EU family members – Your Europe******
> 
> ...


No. The quote is badly worded, in that under 2), the words in brackets ('except the country you are a national of') don't go with _residence card _but with _*the country you are travelling to *_(i.e. UK). So what it means is, in your particular case, since you are returning to the country you are a citizen of (i.e. UK), the European rule doesn't apply and your wife is bound by UK immigration rules, and if she is a visa national, she needs a visa from UK consulate in advance. The only exception is if you are qualified to sponsor your wife for EEA family permit under the Surinder Singh rule. Her Cypriot residence card is a valid form of entry together with her passport in every other EEA country, except UK.

There is a general rule that stipulates you can't be regarded as exercising your EU treaty rights in the country you are a citizen of. Residence in another EEA country doesn't change this, except for Surinder Singh provision.

She can probably obtain a multi-entry visitor visa for UK valid 1 or more years, so that she doesn't have to get a new visa each time she comes to UK but every stay is limited to 6 months.


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

peterandyana said:


> just one final thing Joppa, I found the following information at this web site
> 
> EU – Travel documents for non-EU family members – Your Europe******
> 
> ...


Hi,

In theory yes, however you need to check with your airline carrier to ensure your wife will be allowed to board the aircraft. Often times, those employees are not fully aware nor educated in these particulars.

Please carry your marriage certificate at all the times, and any other supporting document(s) to show to any immigration/border agent, if requested. No need to fill out a landing card either.

Moreover, read the following: No visa but still want to travel? « freedom of movement in the EU

Animo
(Cheers)


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Jrge said:


> Hi,
> 
> In theory yes, however you need to check with your airline carrier to ensure your wife will be allowed to board the aircraft. Often times, those employees are not fully aware nor educated in these particulars.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but you are incorrect. The above provision is valid for travel to all EEA countries except the country where the EEA member is a citizen. In the OP's case, as he is a British national, his wife, a visa national, needs a UK visa for entry, except under the Surinder Singh provision.

Read the following from the document you've given a link to:

'2. European free movement rules apply *when traveling to an EU country different than the citizenship of the EU family member*. e.g. If the EU family member has French citizenship, then the rules apply for entry into all EU countries other than France. These rules only apply for travel back to the EU “home country” when the EU family member has recently been working in another EU member state. e.g. The rules apply for the French worker living in the UK who wishes to enter France with their non-EU family members.'


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## peterandyana (Jul 17, 2012)

Jrge said:


> Hi,
> 
> In theory yes, however you need to check with your airline carrier to ensure your wife will be allowed to board the aircraft. Often times, those employees are not fully aware nor educated in these particulars.
> 
> ...


Hello jrge, this is what i thought and had researched but joppa seems fairly adamant that this cannot be done but i tend to agree with what you are saying; in that a lot of airline and/or immigration staff are not that well educated on the rules of the eu and free movement....through the many many bits of research done myself i also read that provided you do carry the marriage certificate and also other relevant documents including the EC directive 2004/38 and highlight the relevant "articles" then it is possible to change the minds of the uneducated staff members.

joppa do you have any response on what jrge is saying here? see this page on what previous research references i have looked at 

Immigrationboards.com :: View topic - Travel to Schengen, without visa, for EEA-family members


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## peterandyana (Jul 17, 2012)

i would just like to be certain on which route to take here, especially for a visit back to see the family members in january and as we will both travel back to my wife's home country prior to that at the end of December then it does not give us much time (i think in total 18 days from arrival in her home country until travel to my home country) to apply for a visa via the UK embassy in her home country hence the necessity to find out of this other route is actually allowed and legal?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

peterandyana said:


> i would just like to be certain on which route to take here, especially for a visit back to see the family members in january and as we will both travel back to my wife's home country prior to that at the end of December then it does not give us much time (i think in total 18 days from arrival in her home country until travel to my home country) to apply for a visa via the UK embassy in her home country hence the necessity to find out of this other route is actually allowed and legal?


No, it isn't and your wife, if she travels without a UK visitor visa, will almost certainly be refused entry.

You can apply for her UK visa next month in Cyprus, as you can delay the inception date of the visa by up to 3 months. Just put the travel date (to UK) on the form which is within 3 months of application.


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## softatlas (Sep 4, 2012)

*EEA Passport Endorsement*

Hi again Joppa,

One question before I apply for the switch to EEA family visa. According to the UKBA website, I must supply my passport, a letter from my husband confirming I am joining him, his paystubs, and a copy of his passport.

My question is regarding a copy of my Italian husband's passport: "a copy of the EEA national's passport, endorsed by the EEA national's embassy in the country of application"
Does the endorsed part mean I have to take the copy of the passport in to the Italian embassy to be endorsed by them? Does this mean the passport has to be endorsed and they just need a copy of it? Could I just send his passport? If I do get an endorsement, can I provide the copy to the Italian embassy and get the endorsement without my husband being there?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!




Joppa said:


> No. Only EEA family permit can be applied outside UK. EEA2 in UK only.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

softatlas said:


> One question before I apply for the switch to EEA family visa. According to the UKBA website, I must supply my passport, a letter from my husband confirming I am joining him, his paystubs, and a copy of his passport.
> 
> My question is regarding a copy of my Italian husband's passport: "a copy of the EEA national's passport, endorsed by the EEA national's embassy in the country of application"
> Does the endorsed part mean I have to take the copy of the passport in to the Italian embassy to be endorsed by them? Does this mean the passport has to be endorsed and they just need a copy of it? Could I just send his passport? If I do get an endorsement, can I provide the copy to the Italian embassy and get the endorsement without my husband being there?


All you or your husband should do is to take the passport and a photocopy to an Italian consulate and ask them to endorse/certify the copy as a true copy. Then you send in the endorsed photocopy to UKBA for your EEA family permit application.
Phone the consulate first to make sure they do offer this service, as some small 'honorary' consulates don't have a counter service. There is likely to be a fee for this.


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

peterandyana said:


> i would just like to be certain on which route to take here, especially for a visit back to see the family members in january and as we will both travel back to my wife's home country prior to that at the end of December then it does not give us much time (i think in total 18 days from arrival in her home country until travel to my home country) to apply for a visa via the UK embassy in her home country hence the necessity to find out of this other route is actually allowed and legal?


Hi,

How are you EXERCISING TREATY RIGHTS in Greece?

Animo
(Cheers)


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Jrge said:


> How are you EXERCISING TREATY RIGHTS in Greece?


The OP is living in Cyprus with his non-EEA wife as a self-sufficient person, running his UK business remotely. I have advised him that since he doesn't qualify to sponsor his wife for EEA family permit under Surinder Singh provision (not being employed or self-employed in Cyprus), he should get a visitor visa for UK for their short stay in January.


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Joppa said:


> The OP is living in Cyprus with his non-EEA wife as a self-sufficient person, running his UK business remotely. I have advised him that since he doesn't qualify to sponsor his wife for EEA family permit under Surinder Singh provision (not being employed or self-employed in Cyprus), he should get a visitor visa for UK for their short stay in January.


Hi,

Fair enough, I should had read previous posts to think first and write later!

What's fascinating is, that whilst he meets requirements to transfer EU rights to his wife, he can't bring her to home country. I wonder if he's ready or prepare to become either employed/self-employed to challenge the Law.

*OFF TOPIC:* Have you seen the new EEA-Family Permit application form?

Animo
(Cheers)


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## peterandyana (Jul 17, 2012)

its me again  hello Joppa and hello Jrge, what i am going to do is find a job here in Cyprus for the required time of 3 months then head back to the UK with my wife claiming the SS ruling for entry, that seems to be the easiest way forward for me to do this, I did look at establishing myself as self employed in a new business here but seems there are more hurdles than its worth for this particular task....anyhoos my new question to you is revolving around the requirement for having health insurance to apply for the residence permits...as i have an EHIC card to cover myself for health over here, is it therefore just my wife who needs the full medical health cover? or do we actually both need to be covered?

also can you tell me now what the "next move" for us to do should be?, do we go along to the immigration office here in October and apply for the family permit or residency card (is this the same as the EEA FP) and then when ready to return to UK after 3 months of working, make an application to the UK home office stating that we are applying under the SS ruling and that I have been exercising treaty rights and also showing them the pay slips and tax return statements for the 3 month period? additionally, does my wife actually have to work here for the 3 month period? as from what we understand of the situation here she is not allowed to work until her residency status is sorted/confirmed.


thanks once again for the help and assistance people


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


peterandyana said:


> its me again  hello Joppa and hello Jrge, what i am going to do is find a job here in Cyprus for the required time of 3 months then head back to the UK with my wife claiming the SS ruling for entry, that seems to be the *easiest way forward for me to do this*, I did look at establishing myself as self employed in a new business here but seems there are more hurdles than its worth for this particular task....anyhoos my new question to you is revolving around the requirement for having health insurance to apply for the residence permits...as i have an EHIC card to cover myself for health over here, is it therefore just my wife who needs the full medical health cover? or do we actually both need to be covered?


Health Insurance to apply for residence permits where? In Cyprus or the UK?




peterandyana said:


> also can you tell me now what the "next move" for us to do should be?, do we go along to the immigration office here in October and apply for the family permit or residency card (is this the same as the EEA FP) and then when ready to return to UK after 3 months of working, make an application to the UK home office stating that we are applying under the SS ruling and that I have been exercising treaty rights and also showing them the pay slips and tax return statements for the 3 month period? additionally, does my wife actually have to work here for the 3 month period? as from what we understand of the situation here she is not allowed to work until her residency status is sorted/confirmed.
> 
> thanks once again for the help and assistance people


You can only apply for EEA-Family Permits outside the UK. And, you can only apply for Residence Cards/Registration Certificates in the UK.

Nonetheless, you need to show -there- in Cyprus that you have been exercising treaty rights in order to procure your wife's EEA-FP.

If you aren't exercising treaty rights at the moment in Cyprus, then I'm afraid your wife won't be allowed to work. Have you applied for her Resident Card yet? If so, under what category?

Animo
(Cheers)


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## peterandyana (Jul 17, 2012)

Jrge said:


> Hi,
> 
> Health Insurance to apply for residence permits where? In Cyprus or the UK?
> 
> ...



JRGE, the health insurance would apply for Cyprus of course and from what i understand of the situation (and am being advised by immigration lawyers yesterday) i would be applying for an EEA FP to the UK authorities after exercising treaty rights here in Cyprus and going under the surrinder singh rules - as regards the "residence card" it should be issued by cypriot authorities under the self sufficient category, ie: after presentation of bank accounts copies, confirmation from accountant of self employment in UK and confirmation from HMRC on current tax status.


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## peterandyana (Jul 17, 2012)

peterandyana said:


> JRGE, the health insurance would apply for Cyprus of course and from what i understand of the situation (and am being advised by immigration lawyers yesterday) i would be applying for an EEA FP to the UK authorities after exercising treaty rights here in Cyprus and going under the surrinder singh rules - as regards the "residence card" it should be issued by cypriot authorities under the self sufficient category, ie: after presentation of bank accounts copies, confirmation from accountant of self employment in UK and confirmation from HMRC on current tax status.


well, my wife would be applying for the EEA FP


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

peterandyana said:


> well, my wife would be applying for the EEA FP


Hi,

That's interesting and worth following. I'd like to see how far the regulations can be challenged (Its timing, not the rules). Self-sufficient for one instance, then changing to a worker to then apply under SS. 

Please share with us any outcome.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## peterandyana (Jul 17, 2012)

Jrge said:


> Hi,
> 
> That's interesting and worth following. I'd like to see how far the regulations can be challenged (Its timing, not the rules). Self-sufficient for one instance, then changing to a worker to then apply under SS.
> 
> ...


the self sufficient issue is for the residence card so thats for the cypriot authorities alone in order for us to obtain the pink slip from to allow my wife to work, whereas the UK authorities are pretty strict on the surrinder singh rules and conditions and as such one has to be exercising the treaty rights either by work and/or self employment in the host EU country, it makes no difference on whether that individual went to another EU country to exercise treaty rights only to return to UK, they cannot use this as a refusal...i very much doubt that it would even be questioned, ie: the fact my wife "obtained residency here by me being self sufficient" as its a completely different authority in which we are applying to for both issues.... all that matters in the case of applying for EEA FP to the UK under SS is that a) the exercising of treaty rights was done legally and b) me and the wife have the residency card in our hands

maybe this link will help others, its policy and law guidance on/for the UKBA on issuing of visas etc, found it whilst doing my own research..

UK Border Agency | EUN02 - EEA Family permits

thanks


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## peterandyana (Jul 17, 2012)

thats me got my residency card and now waiting on the wife's 5 year residency permit to be issued within the next few months, will keep the post updated on when we get the EEA FP to enter the UK, still looking for work


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## fernandordem (Oct 19, 2012)

*I want to travel to my country*

Hi Joppa I hope you can help me as well.I saw u have been helping a lot of people here.
Folks, who know my answer can help me as well.
I am waiting for my family visit permit i have applied in Uk about 4 months ago and i have got my certificate letter already which allow me work here but i intend to travel for Brazil for 2 or 3 week in November. i have asked for my passport already.
My doubt is when i come back from Brazil what can i do ? because when i went in Uk i hold a VISA from Ireland so in the moment i have no VISA.
I am wondering if i can go back here normaly what i need to show for the immigration when i come back?
or i need to come as a tourist VISA.

Please could you help me?

best regards,

Fernando


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## peterandyana (Jul 17, 2012)

*EEA family permit to enter UK under surrinder singh rules*



peterandyana said:


> thats me got my residency card and now waiting on the wife's 5 year residency permit to be issued within the next few months, will keep the post updated on when we get the EEA FP to enter the UK, still looking for work


Hi Joppa, I hope this message finds you and the other senior members well...an update for the situation with residency cards is that my wife was issued her 5 year one (Yellow Slip) about a month ago and after having lived here in Cyprus since last August (with my wife working for the last 4 months) and with the current economic situation here, we are now thinking of returning to the UK at the end of this year for what we believe will be better opportunities for both of us...which ultimately means that I now will have to find employment in Cyprus for at least 3 months, however perhaps you will be able to help me clarify, in regards part time work under the EU SS rules, do you know the min' amount of hours to work and/or wage to be earned to be applicable to apply?

thanking you in advance


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