# Before I spend a lot of money on a gas heater



## skip o (Aug 1, 2011)

Heating & cooling in Spain is so different compared to what I am used to in the US.

What I know:
I have a 150 sq meter apartment in Barcelona with a 10-15 year old Saunier Duval gas boiler. It heats my apartment by heating water which circulates through about 12 radiators in various rooms the apartment. It also heats the water going to my sinks and showers.

Problems:
It is about 15 years old. It has a small leak. Every day I need to twist a knob to let more water into the system. The thermostat needs to be tweaked weekly as the weather outside changes. Also, some of my radiators do not get as hot as others.

I would like my new system to be energy efficient and ideally have a digital thermostat.

The unit is called a "caldera de condensación" in Spanish, correct? And the radiators are called "radiadores?"

Is Saunier Duval a good brand, or should I check out another?

How much do you think a new unit will cost, installed?

Any other advice or tips is greatly appreciated. This is very new to me!


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

I can answer some of your questions. Saunier Duval is a highly respected brand. My own SD boiler also runs a house full of radiators plus hot water on demand and is currently 23 years of age. I have been advised not to change it as it is so good. I have had a maintenance contract for the 20 years that I've had it, which means an annual service and prompt attention if there are any problems. I would imagine that a service engineer may well fix your leak quite easily. The radiators which are not getting hot enough probably need the air bleeding out, which is quite simple and you could probably find a YouTube video to advise you if you don't know how yourself. A new boiler is going to mean a considerable outlay, which you might be able to avoid.
If the caldera is 15 years old I would doubt it is a condensation type, but it is possible.
Tweaking a thermostat shouldn't be necessary . A thermostat sets the temperature for the room it is in, so just set the temperature you want. Only if you prefer different temperatures in different weeks should you need to change it. I cannot believe you are using heating in Barcelona already!


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Also you may find out that its the rads tap(s) that need changing as these do stop working now and then & this can result in not allowing the water to pass freely.


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## Robors2 (Jun 12, 2015)

Never install new boiler with old radiators.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Robors2 said:


> Never install new boiler with old radiators.


You can although the old may benefit from flushing to clear any crud out that has built up over the years.


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## skip o (Aug 1, 2011)

Thanks everyone. I now know that the boiler and the radiators are 20 years old. Do the radiators need to be replaced now too? I wouldn't think so.

I also now know that in 2013, the previous owner was told by a local store employee that a Saunier Duval Isofast 21 F35 would cost 2900 euro and an Isomax 42 F35 would cost 3200 euro, including VAT, installed. Does that sound about right?

When I opened the valves to let air out, all that came out was water.

In case there was crud on the them, I closed and opened the valves that let the water in and that helped a few of the radiators get hotter, but did not fix all of them.

Thanks again!


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## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

You shouldn't need to replace the rads, unless they have rusted badly, hence the crud. 

Definitely get the system flushed. 

12 radiators seems a lot to serve 150m2, can they be rationalised (some removed)? Or turn some of them off? 

Consider fitting individual thermostatic valves to each rad so you can control the heat output in each space. 

The quoted prices seem about right to me (not an expert, just been round the block a few times). 

Avoid Chaffoteaux boilers, ours is crap.


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## country boy (Mar 10, 2010)

Robors2 said:


> Never install new boiler with old radiators.


EXCUSE ME??? Total rot and a generalisation.


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## country boy (Mar 10, 2010)

some reason I can't edit my post but I intended to add this link for info:

Calentador estanco | Encuentre aquí calentadores agua electricos estancos - ClimaMania


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## country boy (Mar 10, 2010)

that link did't come out right! Click Estancos under the Calderas heading on the left hand side...Spain innit!

OR click this:


http://www.climamania.com/calderas/


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

A tip to save you a bit of money; don't bother with a magnetic anti-cal thingy if they offer it. They are based on pseudo-science and don't work. I have reported several adverts for these to the ASA and the ads were removed. Trial results show they are not effective. 

As to price, I recently had a similar sounding boiler (although probably a bit smaller) replaced in a rental house I have in the UK. Installed price was about £1,700 from memory. So your price is in the right ballpark.

I too don't understand the comment about replacing the radiators.


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## Libbyzx (Aug 7, 2014)

While it's been said to replace the radiators when replacing the boiler could this be due to perhaps as well as the, someone said "crud" build up, rusting of the internal water ways so by stopping these working as efficiently as they should do.

As well we have been told the whole system is 20 years old and heating has come a long way since way back even to the point of modern radiators which conduct and transfer heat so much quicker and better.

I guess you have to check the costings out to the savings you might get with new modern radiators.


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## Robors2 (Jun 12, 2015)

Libbyzx said:


> While it's been said to replace the radiators when replacing the boiler could this be due to perhaps as well as the, someone said "crud" build up, rusting of the internal water ways so by stopping these working as efficiently as they should do.
> 
> As well we have been told the whole system is 20 years old and heating has come a long way since way back even to the point of modern radiators which conduct and transfer heat so much quicker and better.
> 
> I guess you have to check the costings out to the savings you might get with new modern radiators.


It is your call if you want to replace rads or not, but from my professional experience after 20 years there could be load of rubbish inside which could damage your brand new boiler.
Remove one radiator, drain what is inside and then decide.

New combination boiler price should not be more then £1200, plus £500 to install it, plus about £50 per radiator and I am quoting London prices.


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## skip o (Aug 1, 2011)

In the US, it is not unusual to have 50-100 year old pipes and radiators. Our water heaters (what you call boilers) are replaced every 10-15 years. And new water heaters aren't hurt by being attached to old pipes and radiators. The insides of the old system usually just has rock hard mineral build up inside it. It won't float around. 

Is water in Spain different? Is there sludge or gunk inside the pipes?


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## country boy (Mar 10, 2010)

If the system was installed with an inhibitor in the water content and hasn't had any leaks then there shouldn't be much sludge or corrosion. Also, you may have aluminium rads not steel...there are so many variables; talk to a recommended professional who will advise you.
The water in Spain is H2O same as the rest of the planet, it varies in mineral content but it is always just water!

Any reputable installer will drain down and flush out the system when he(or she) installs the new boiler anyway.


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