# Tourism vs Residency



## Rich & Wendy (May 28, 2018)

Now it appears that British tourists won't be allowed into Spain from July, (and who can blame Spanish authorities for that with our current situation ?) it would appear the move we have been planning for years is now under serious threat.

We're not just tourists, we love the area of Spain that we've visited many times, but not being allowed in before the end of the transition period due to the unfortunate crisis that has arisen could prevent us from being allowed to move at all.

Is there no kind of authority we can appeal to in Spain ?

We have every intention of buying property - indeed we'll probably have to pay twice as much in the town we wish to retire to than we will get for our UK home.
We will be contributing to the local economy, paying taxes etc...can anything be done apart from hoping for a vaccine ?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Implementation period doesn't end till 31st December, so almost 7 months from now. I seems unthinkable that the border will remain closed to British citizens that long. I'd have thought Britons can travel to Spain by August, or by September at the latest. You can apply for residency as soon as you arrive, provided you have firm intention to live in Spain for at least 3 months. You need to make an online booking for an appointment to submit your papers and application.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Rich & Wendy said:


> Now it appears that British tourists won't be allowed into Spain from July, (and who can blame Spanish authorities for that with our current situation ?) it would appear the move we have been planning for years is now under serious threat.
> 
> We're not just tourists, we love the area of Spain that we've visited many times, but not being allowed in before the end of the transition period due to the unfortunate crisis that has arisen could prevent us from being allowed to move at all.
> 
> ...


Can I ask where you saw this?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> Can I ask where you saw this?


I was just about to ask the same!

I know that some UK press has had headlines along the lines of ''Spain bans Brits'', but afaik that isn't at all true.

The health minister HAS said that they would want an improvement in the R rating etc. in the UK before allowing tourists in from there - but there's a whole month to go yet before July 1st, & time for improvement.

I wouldn't expect a final decision until nearer the time - with perhaps a target R rating among other criteria, for any country to send tourists - not just the UK.


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## Rich & Wendy (May 28, 2018)

Megsmum said:


> Can I ask where you saw this?



BBC website :
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52882177


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rich & Wendy said:


> BBC website :
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52882177


Yes, it says that 'data will have to improve' - not that no-one will be allowed in from the UK ever.


If / as & when the figures improve, then of course visitors & immigrants from the UK will be welcomed. It might not be in July though. 

July is a long way from the end of December, so I wouldn't start worrying just yet.


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## Rich & Wendy (May 28, 2018)

This is Boris and Dom we're dealing with, who I doubt will be satisfied until they've shifted at least another 50,000 citizens...plus the No Deal.


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## Mark s (Jun 6, 2019)

We are in the same boat, but, we still have 6 months left and correct me if I’m wrong, the Spainish govt has given uk citizens 6 months leeway as long as your application has been submitted by 31st December?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I've lived in Spain for some time now, and myself? I'm not making any plans more than 3 days ahead. No one, no one can say what's going to happen with any certainty,not medical experts, nor politicians nor business gurus nor your pub philosopher because no one has lived this before. For example, Sánchez said there will be four phases of deescalation, and very cautiously said that each phase would consist of approx 2 weeks. Well, he ended up inventing an intermediary stage of 0,5.
Maybe I'll be able to go to UK this summer, but I'm not prepared to spend 2 weeks in isolation there, and 2 weeks in isolation here for a few days in the UK. maybe I'll go on holiday in Spain, but maybe where I want to go will suddenly be put back into lockdown, or I won't be able to get there as it will involve travelling through an infected area, so I have no tickets, no bookings. 

Maybe I'll have work in September (I'm a teacher finishing my coontract at the end of June), maybe not and if I do, will it be online? I heard today that some offices are not contemplating going back until after Christmas!! And even then I suspect it will be in a completely different dynamic.
Don' t make any plans that are going to cost you money and or cause you heartbreak.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Mark s said:


> We are in the same boat, but, we still have 6 months left and correct me if I’m wrong, the Spainish govt has given uk citizens 6 months leeway as long as your application has been submitted by 31st December?


You get your certificate of registration on the day you submit your successful application, but I don't know if Spain has given an undertaking about 6-month leeway for submitting application till end of June 2021, though it's in the Withdrawal Agreement that UK concluded with 27 nations of EU. In the absence of specific provision by Spain, you should aim to get your residency application by the end of the year, and move to Spain no later than end of November/start of December, as you need to make an online application for appointment.


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## Rich & Wendy (May 28, 2018)

Mark s said:


> We are in the same boat, but, we still have 6 months left and correct me if I’m wrong, the Spainish govt has given uk citizens 6 months leeway as long as your application has been submitted by 31st December?


Yes, but you still have to physically be there before the end of December...and Boris won't be asking for an extension.


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## Rich & Wendy (May 28, 2018)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Maybe I'll have work in September (I'm a teacher finishing my coontract at the end of June), maybe not and if I do, will it be online? I heard today that some offices are not contemplating going back until after Christmas!! And even then I suspect it will be in a completely different dynamic.
> Don' t make any plans that are going to cost you money and or cause you heartbreak.


Whatever happens it will cost us money...Brexit has already cost us a fortune and will continue to do so...the heartbreaking part of this is having to stay in this complete farce of a country any longer.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Rich & Wendy said:


> Whatever happens it will cost us money...Brexit has already cost us a fortune and will continue to do so...the heartbreaking part of this is having to stay in this complete farce of a country any longer.


 Message understood.
I know where I'm happiest living!
I would just say though, don't expect everything to be great in Spain either, cos there is plenty of room for improvement here too! I realise that you may not be thinking of Spain= perfection, but just a gentle warning because some people do...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Joppa said:


> You get your certificate of registration on the day you submit your successful application, but I don't know if Spain has given an undertaking about 6-month leeway for submitting application till end of June 2021, though it's in the Withdrawal Agreement that UK concluded with 27 nations of EU. In the absence of specific provision by Spain, you should aim to get your residency application by the end of the year, and move to Spain no later than end of November/start of December, as you need to make an online application for appointment.


There were issues with appointments even before the confinamiento due to a huge rush to get registered, & there was talk that as long as your appointment was secured by the end of the year, even if it were for 2021, you would be able to register under EU rules. I can't remember how many months leeway they were talking about, though istr that there was a few months leeway for driving licences at least. That was aimed at people already here. 

Offices have been closed during the lockdown, but some are now opening & taking appointments again.

It's worth noting that it isn't possible to make online appointments at all offices. Some only accept face to face booking.

Whether Spain will extend the 'leeway' for people moving here but not yet arrived due to the virus is anyone's guess.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Rich & Wendy said:


> Whatever happens it will cost us money...Brexit has already cost us a fortune and will continue to do so...the heartbreaking part of this is having to stay in this complete farce of a country any longer.


I've lived in three countries and spent long periods of time in two others. Of all these countries Spain is the one I chose to finally settle down in and for twelve happy years it's been my home.

But I agree with Pesky who probably nows more about living in Spain and Spanish life - two separate things - than most on this Forum. Spain isn't paradise, it's a country comme les autres with highs and low points. For me the highs far outnumber the lows but some arrive with the idea they are about to live the 'Spanish dream' and find it turns out to be a nightmare.

No matter how many times you visit a country as a tourist actually living in a country is a totally different experience. I had visited and spent long periods of time in Prague over a period of almost forty years, spoke Czech...but when I moved there for what I thought was forever my experience entered a whole new realm. After three years I moved to Spain and have only been back once.

I would advise renting for a year, maybe even longer, before buying. You need to experience every-day life with all its differences and peculiarities before committing yourself to permanence. Get used to your new surroundings. Learn not only to speak Spanish - that part is quite easy - but to understand it which is not so easy. To do that you must get out of any 'Brit bubble'.

Don't run down the U.K. Denigrate the Government and Tories in general by all means but remember the U.K. is a well-organised wealthy and liberal country compared to many others in the modern world. People from less fortunate countries risk their lives to get to it. British immigrants to Spain may face temporary difficulties in getting here but they don't have to make the attempt in flimsy rafts or clinging to the underside of a truck.

I'm quite sure you'll be able to get to Spain sometime this year. Spain needs your money. As PW says, things change from day to day. But Spain will still be here waiting for you.


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## Nomoss (Nov 25, 2016)

Arriving in Spain before the end of the transition period is not essential for moving there permanently.

We moved there in 1980, before Spain joined the EU.

We got visas from a Spanish embassy in the UK, and had no problem getting residence permits once I satisfied the authorities that we had sufficient means to support ourselves and 2 children.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Nomoss said:


> Arriving in Spain before the end of the transition period is not essential for moving there permanently.
> 
> We moved there in 1980, before Spain joined the EU.
> 
> We got visas from a Spanish embassy in the UK, and had no problem getting residence permits once I satisfied the authorities that we had sufficient means to support ourselves and 2 children.


Now that Spain IS in the EU, no visa is required, so it isn't possible for an EU citizen to register as resident before living here. No visa is required, so it isn't possible to get one.

Of course once the UK leaves the EU visas will be required, & then yes, a visa will have to be secured before moving to Spain.

Income requirements for one thing are MUCH higher, though.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

In order to benefit from the Withdrawal Agreement, UK citizens must be resident in Spain at the end of the implementation period, which is 31st December 2020 unless an extension is agreed (vigorously opposed by UK government).
Without the benefit of WA, you will be subject to rules for third country national such as citizen of US, Canada, Russia, China etc (unless a more favourable agreement is reached in the current negotiation, which seems unlikely as UK is going to pass a new immigration law taking away freedom of movement right from EU citizens). Financial requirement is around 3-4 times more than for EU citizen and those who qualify under the WA.


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## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Joppa said:


> In order to benefit from the Withdrawal Agreement, UK citizens must be resident in Spain at the end of the implementation period, which is 31st December 2020 unless an extension is agreed (vigorously opposed by UK government).
> Without the benefit of WA, you will be subject to rules for third country national such as citizen of US, Canada, Russia, China etc (unless a more favourable agreement is reached in the current negotiation, which seems unlikely as UK is going to pass a new immigration law taking away freedom of movement right from EU citizens). Financial requirement is around 3-4 times more than for EU citizen and those who qualify under the WA.


At this point it will no doubt be of interest to the OP and many others who are
lurkers in the same position as the OP ( but do not post here ) to get some feedback
from the above third country citizens; namely Americans, Canadians, Australians,
etc who have emigrated successfully to Spain in recent years and can pass
on their knowledge and experience to Brits doing the same thing after 31st December
2020.

Particularly in view of all the reports of doom & gloom of the EU & the UK ever reaching
an agreement in recent talks.

Which would be more apt and to the point than other Brits that moved to Spain 
in other era's before Spain joined the EU.


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## Rich & Wendy (May 28, 2018)

Many thanks to everyone for their insightful and informative comments.
Obviously we won't go into this thinking any country will be perfect, but we've spent many years becoming more and more disillusioned with the UK, and I certainly have no intention of living out my retirement here under this pretence of a leadership.
Ironically I've spent a reasonable amount of time in the US over the years, having harboured teenage fancies of moving there.
I was given the opportunity once when offered a job in Passaic, New Jersey. 
The guy asked if my wife would be happy to live there.
I didn't need to think about it as I already knew the answer.
That rings even truer twenty years later.
We've visited numerous places, and hopefully the town of Albir will work for us.
If not, I'm sure we'll find somewhere that will.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Rich & Wendy said:


> Obviously we won't go into this thinking any country will be perfect, but we've spent many years becoming more and more disillusioned with the UK, and I certainly have no intention of living out my retirement here under this pretence of a leadership.


Spain's next leadership may not exactly be an improvement over Boris...

Spain's political landscape is a bit more polarised than the UK's, so just be aware that for a UK leftie, a Spanish right wing government is harder to put up with than a Tory one which said leftie may be used to. And vice-versa obviously.


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## Rich & Wendy (May 28, 2018)

Apart from Trump, I find it hard to believe that any government could be worse than the genocidal dictatorship we have in charge at the moment, but obviously you have far more experience of Spanish politics than I.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Rich & Wendy said:


> Apart from Trump, I find it hard to believe that any government could be worse than the genocidal dictatorship we have in charge at the moment, but obviously you have far more experience of Spanish politics than I.


Incompetent, mendacious and thoroughly immoral, yes. But not a genocidal dictatorship. 

The coalition government we've got in Spain at the moment is pretty good, but the Far Right is gaining strength every day. And genocidal dictatorship is something the Far Right in Spain does rather well.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Rich & Wendy said:


> Apart from Trump, I find it hard to believe that any government could be worse than the genocidal dictatorship we have in charge at the moment, but obviously you have far more experience of Spanish politics than I.


Whilst I normally live and work in Spain but presently in lockdown in the U.K. until I return in August, I personally do not recognise the U.K. government for all its failings and faults as a genocidal dictatorship 

Spain is still a relatively new democracy and many alive here now will explain what a genocidal dictatorship is.. as will many other countries across the world

We moved here in 2014 not to “get away” from the U.K., after-all , one might not agree with the politics but the U.K. is a relatively safe and desirable place to live for many millions, we came to experience a different way of life. Do not underestimate the U.K. v Spain for stability, money, benefits etc. Not everything in the other garden in green. Basically there are good people here and as many bad people here. Animal abuse is rife here, domestic violence still a major issue. What I am clumsily trying to say is life is life wherever you live same **** different country.. but with the added headaches of the language, bureaucracy and the other one million things that can thwart life anywhere.

Don’t get me wrong, we love life in Spain and would not return to the U.K. BUT if we had to there are worst places we could go to.

Good Luck with your plans, it must be hard having a dream and being thwarted equally many of us here are still in relative limbo while we wait for various governments to finalise our rights here and tell us how to proceed for our new cards


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## Rich & Wendy (May 28, 2018)

Well, we shouldn't have any money worries as long as we can get over before sterling falls to half a euro. I just can't imagine how difficult it will soon become for UK pensioners to survive on nothing more than state pension...if there even will be one soon.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Rich & Wendy said:


> Apart from Trump, I find it hard to believe that any government could be worse than the genocidal dictatorship we have in charge at the moment, but obviously you have far more experience of Spanish politics than I.


Genocidal??? Which particular nationality or ethnic group has the Johnson Government pushed into gas chambers or massacred in any way. Dictatorship? The United Kingdom is still what in Northern Europe is called a Rechtstaat, that is a country governed by rule of law. The UK has an independent judiciary and unlike Spain and many other countries has no national police force. 

With respect, the casual use of terms like genocide and dictatorship cheapens words and undermines the experiences of people who know only too well what it is like to experience real world genocide and dictatorship. Try telling a Spaniard who lived through the Franco era that the UK is a dictatorship. 

Like most people here, I keep up with Spanish politics. After over forty years active membership of the UK Labour Party - I'm still a paid-up member - now in Spain I'm an active member of PSOE, the governing Party. (In coalition with Podemos). In fact, I'm President of our local branch. Our branch has a few very elderly members whose families suffered imprisonment and even in one case execution at the hands of a dictatorship.

People here, on the whole, take politics very seriously. They've learned from bitter experience. As for diabolical political Parties - you may not have heard of Vox, the third largest Party in the Cortes. In the last municipal elections it polled very heavily in my town, coming a close second behind our popular Mayor. It is at the very least an authoritarian, reactionary Party with many aspects of fascism although not outright fascist - and there's another term cheapened by improper use. Anti-immigrant, homophobic, against women's rights, chauvinist-nationalistic....Vox makes the UK Tory Party look like weak liberals.

And if you get to Spain in the next few years you might find yourself living in a municipality governed by these ultra-rightists. There won't be genocide or dictatorship, just division, fomenting of nationalist exclusivity and oppression of contrary political opinion.

Be careful of what you wish for.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Rich & Wendy said:


> Well, we shouldn't have any money worries as long as we can get over before sterling falls to half a euro. I just can't imagine how difficult it will soon become for UK pensioners to survive on nothing more than state pension...if there even will be one soon.


Do not rely on sterling rates. Any upset in the world can and could lead to a dramatic fall in sterling v euro. As for pensions, they are a universal nail in most countries coffins, pensions as we know it will change everywhere in the world as they’ve become unsustainable.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Megsmum said:


> Do not rely on sterling rates. Any upset in the world can and could lead to a dramatic fall in sterling v euro. As for pensions, they are a universal nail in most countries coffins, pensions as we know it will change everywhere in the world as they’ve become unsustainable.


As I've said before, when we decided to relocate to Spain, the exchange rate was £1 to euros 1.22. When we got here we heard people were getting less than a euro for £1 at UK exchange bureaux. We did our planning on parity.

UK pensioners aren't the worse off group in UK society. Anybody on the basic rate of SRP is entitled to many other benefits - housing benefit, pension supplement, winter fuel allowance and other smaller in cash terms benefits.

Most retired people don't rely on the basic SRP anyway. The tail end of SERPS is still in operation (I believe) and of course very many people have occupational pensions n addition to the SRP.

But you're right, pensions are the elephant in the room in most European countries with ageing populations. The UK pension is a giant Ponzi scheme.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Given the choice I would return to UK. I am still working and have a teenager here. Southern Spain is for many the dream but take away the sun and I doubt it would hold much appeal for Brits. After some years the heat becomes a factor that actually keeps you indoors more than outdoors. August is, for me a lost month. It's too hot for anything. Aside from the weather Spain is not advisable for working folk. It may seem cheap for Brits who have pensions and income from UK but with many spanish individuals earning less than 1.000 euros a month and many on temporary contracts life can quickly become depressing. For foreigners with little spanish your job opportunities are very narrow and self employment is hard with it's fixed payments. I also feel the education system is quite simply failing to equip the next generation for global work markets. The growing mood of regional identity diverts kids learning away from diversity and inclusion into something far less progressive. The idea of, for example teaching some subjects in Valenciano when Spain lags so far behind other European countries in its percentage of high level English speakers. Finally the growing popularity of the far right is worrying especially as they begin to frame politics as a way of legitimizing an intolerance of foreigners. Only this morning I have seen people walking around with the black and green face masks with the small spanish flag
Now you can say what you like but we all know what it is: a new swastika!!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

kaipa said:


> Given the choice I would return to UK. I am still working and have a teenager here. Southern Spain is for many the dream but take away the sun and I doubt it would hold much appeal for Brits. After some years the heat becomes a factor that actually keeps you indoors more than outdoors. August is, for me a lost month. It's too hot for anything. Aside from the weather Spain is not advisable for working folk. It may seem cheap for Brits who have pensions and income from UK but with many spanish individuals earning less than 1.000 euros a month and many on temporary contracts life can quickly become depressing. For foreigners with little spanish your job opportunities are very narrow and self employment is hard with it's fixed payments. I also feel the education system is quite simply failing to equip the next generation for global work markets. The growing mood of regional identity diverts kids learning away from diversity and inclusion into something far less progressive. The idea of, for example teaching some subjects in Valenciano when Spain lags so far behind other European countries in its percentage of high level English speakers. Finally the growing popularity of the far right is worrying especially as they begin to frame politics as a way of legitimizing an intolerance of foreigners. Only this morning I have seen people walking around with the black and green face masks with the small spanish flag
> Now you can say what you like but we all know what it is: a new swastika!!



Well, Spain has never been a 'dream' of any kind for me. Neither am I so daft as to choose to live in a country or any part of it simply because there is abundant sunshine. Were that the case, I may have gone off to Dubai or some other country with wall-to-wall sunshine and swimming pools.

Mind you, wearing tshirts in January made a very pleasant change from wrapping myself up like Nanook of the North in the Czech winters. But there's a lot more to Southern Spain than sea, sun and beach. Neither is Spain 'cheap, at least not where I live, just outside Estepona. I agree that life for many Spaniards on low wages which around here is the majority is a struggle but few people I know in this situation are depressed. There is still a general enjoyment of life and the things that are free - the sea, nature and of course family and friends. But even at the height of last year's summer season unemployment in the town was never below 20%. Estepona lives from tourism so the future is bleak.

Vox is popular in the town but it's too early to say just how serious a threat they are. In spite of polling very well in May's elections last year they didn't gain a single Consejal. I wouldn't make comparisons with swastikas either, not yet anyway. There always has and always will be an ultra-right nationalist fringe in most countries, even tolerant countries like the Netherlands and Scandinavia. Time was in the UK when the BNP was a very strong force locally in many areas of the North West and the South East. Where is Nick Griffin now????

You are right about employment. Last night I had a long conversation with a friend in the UK. She owns properties in Olvera and intends to retire early and live permanently in Spain. She has a house in the UK so has no money worries and doesn't want to work. But.....she has recently taken charge of her sixteen year old grandson and will bring him to Spain with her. I tried to explain the difficulties she and he will face but she is determined to go ahead with the move regardless. Some Brits don't seem aware of how things are here. As I said in a previous post, living in Spain and Spanish life are two different things.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Moving with a 16 year old to Spain seems a strange thing to do. Without Spanish it will be hard to make friends, even harder if he doesn't attend school. My 14 year doesn't like spain at all. He speaks spanish and does very well in school but he hates being called a guiri and the way he is treated. At home he plays games and watches movies but, as he says, hes not going to watch an American movie in spanish and everything influential to these kids is in English so he basically ignores most spanish forms of media. He has spanish books to read but they are nearly all old spanish classics with zero relevance for 21st century kids. I understand him entirely, the world of technology is chained to English and that's the language he has his identity in and will never change. He simply wants to live in a world where he feels the future is happening and opportunities exist


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

kaipa said:


> Moving with a 16 year old to Spain seems a strange thing to do. Without Spanish it will be hard to make friends, even harder if he doesn't attend school. My 14 year doesn't like spain at all. He speaks spanish and does very well in school but he hates being called a guiri and the way he is treated. At home he plays games and watches movies but, as he says, hes not going to watch an American movie in spanish and everything influential to these kids is in English so he basically ignores most spanish forms of media. He has spanish books to read but they are nearly all old spanish classics with zero relevance for 21st century kids. I understand him entirely, the world of technology is chained to English and that's the language he has his identity in and will never change. He simply wants to live in a world where he feels the future is happening and opportunities exist


My guess is that the sixteen year old will be back in the UK by the time he's eighteen, for all the reasons you apply to your son.


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## CltFlyboy (Feb 11, 2020)

mrypg9 said:


> Like most people here, I keep up with Spanish politics. After over forty years active membership of the UK Labour Party - I'm still a paid-up member - now in Spain I'm an active member of PSOE, the governing Party. (In coalition with Podemos). In fact, I'm President of our local branch. Our branch has a few very elderly members whose families suffered imprisonment and even in one case execution at the hands of a dictatorship.


Do you have a list of sources that someone like me who is relatively new to the Spanish concepts of government can read? I'm trying to understand all I can about the country before we start planning a move (~3 years is the current goal). I would be highly appreciative for any really great sites/information I can get.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

CltFlyboy said:


> Do you have a list of sources that someone like me who is relatively new to the Spanish concepts of government can read? I'm trying to understand all I can about the country before we start planning a move (~3 years is the current goal). I would be highly appreciative for any really great sites/information I can get.


 In La Tasca on this forum there is a thread _Books about or set in Spain. _You might get some ideas from there. 

Another idea is to read a newspaper article a day in Spanish from a Spanish newspaper, and translate it. Doesn't have to be long, just a shortie will do,but you will get useful info and also build up your knowledge of the language.
I can't remember if you are retired or working, speak Spanish or don't, so adjust the ideas to your circumstances, but if you are learning the language or improving language skills it really makes a difference to have a contact with the the target language everyday, even if it's only 10 mins looking over some vocabulary, or re reading an article you read the day/ week/ month before.
El País also prints an English edition, some articles available online
https://english.elpais.com/


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kaipa said:


> Moving with a 16 year old to Spain seems a strange thing to do. Without Spanish it will be hard to make friends, even harder if he doesn't attend school. My 14 year doesn't like spain at all. He speaks spanish and does very well in school but he hates being called a guiri and the way he is treated. At home he plays games and watches movies but, as he says, hes not going to watch an American movie in spanish and everything influential to these kids is in English so he basically ignores most spanish forms of media. He has spanish books to read but they are nearly all old spanish classics with zero relevance for 21st century kids. I understand him entirely, the world of technology is chained to English and that's the language he has his identity in and will never change. He simply wants to live in a world where he feels the future is happening and opportunities exist


 We have had the occasional person over the years wanting to come to Spain principally for a better life for their children, but wanting to go to *Andalucia* with a *15/16* year old and fairly often wanting to enrol the child in a* state school *to better able embrace the Spanish experience.
They were always advised by people who lived here to not do it as it would at the least make for some difficult years ahead or could quite possibly ruin the child's education, confidence and self belief, career prospects and opportunity to make lasting relationships...


Good to hear you still have some work. Hope your son made it through confinement without being too badly affected.
My husband teaches FP and has students who are still too scared to go outside! Not the majority, but some and most seem to be treating the various phases with quite a lot of respect


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> > Moving with a 16 year old to Spain seems a strange thing to do. Without Spanish it will be hard to make friends, even harder if he doesn't attend school. My 14 year doesn't like spain at all. He speaks spanish and does very well in school but he hates being called a guiri and the way he is treated. At home he plays games and watches movies but, as he says, hes not going to watch an American movie in spanish and everything influential to these kids is in English so he basically ignores most spanish forms of media. He has spanish books to read but they are nearly all old spanish classics with zero relevance for 21st century kids. I understand him entirely, the world of technology is chained to English and that's the language he has his identity in and will never change. He simply wants to live in a world where he feels the future is happening and opportunities exist
> ...


My son has made it through confinement quite happily as he is more suited to working at home. In fact he really enjoyed it as he said he cant concentrate in class due to all the chatter etc. 
His problem is that he is entering a phase where he is keen to learn and feels disadvantaged doing it in spanish hence his desire to go back to UK.
I agree with your advice about trying to use a paper to better your spanish and exposure to Spain although I feel that a beginner would not get that far and would need more of a foundation before using the realia of a newspaper. Still its important to get into a habit of practising the language daily even for just 10 minutes


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Another idea is to read a newspaper artic
> El País also prints an English edition, some articles available online
> https://english.elpais.com/


You can subscribe to El Pais in English by email and receive articles in your inbox, weekly or daily. It also has a Facebook page. I don't think they do a printed edition any more.

I personally think it's the best way to get a picture of contemporary politics in Spain from a distance, if you're not fluent in Spanish.


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## CltFlyboy (Feb 11, 2020)

Pesky Wesky said:


> In La Tasca on this forum there is a thread _Books about or set in Spain. _You might get some ideas from there.
> 
> Another idea is to read a newspaper article a day in Spanish from a Spanish newspaper, and translate it. Doesn't have to be long, just a shortie will do,but you will get useful info and also build up your knowledge of the language.
> I can't remember if you are retired or working, speak Spanish or don't, so adjust the ideas to your circumstances, but if you are learning the language or improving language skills it really makes a difference to have a contact with the the target language everyday, even if it's only 10 mins looking over some vocabulary, or re reading an article you read the day/ week/ month before.
> ...


Thanks, appreciate the feedback. I'm still working and have been doing deep Spanish study for the last year (and my better half is a college Spanish profesora). I already consume the main "news" sources (El Pais, Catalan News, The Local, etc.) on a daily basis. What I'd really love to find is that politically focused without a slant source so I get the historical view as well as what the future holds. I'll look thru those books and see where they take me - thanks again!


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

New York Times used to publish artilces once a week from Cinco Días, I know because I used to translate them!

Not sure if they still do though.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> You can subscribe to El Pais in English by email and receive articles in your inbox, weekly or daily. It also has a Facebook page. I don't think they do a printed edition any more.
> 
> I personally think it's the best way to get a picture of contemporary politics in Spain from a distance, if you're not fluent in Spanish.


Yes, who prints anything these days! It was a slip of the tongue!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kaipa said:


> My son has made it through confinement quite happily as he is more suited to working at home. In fact he really enjoyed it as he said he cant concentrate in class due to all the chatter etc.
> His problem is that he is entering a phase where he is keen to learn and feels disadvantaged doing it in spanish hence his desire to go back to UK.
> I agree with your advice about trying to use a paper to better your spanish and exposure to Spain although I feel that a beginner would not get that far and would need more of a foundation before using the realia of a newspaper. Still its important to get into a habit of practising the language daily even for just 10 minutes


OMG, 14 and keen to learn! Well done! Don't know how you've done it, or how to encourage him, but feed that phase


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

CltFlyboy said:


> Pesky Wesky said:
> 
> 
> > In La Tasca on this forum there is a thread _Books about or set in Spain. _You might get some ideas from there.
> ...


I read a really good book that was all about the very modern politics of Spain which I think was called The Ghosts of Spain and another The New Spaniards. I really learnt alot from them


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## CltFlyboy (Feb 11, 2020)

kaipa said:


> I read a really good book that was all about the very modern politics of Spain which I think was called The Ghosts of Spain and another The New Spaniards. I really learnt alot from them


Thanks! I think this is the book you're talking about, I'll order it 

https://www.amazon.com/Ghosts-Spain-Travels-Through-Silent/dp/0802716741


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

CltFlyboy said:


> kaipa said:
> 
> 
> > I read a really good book that was all about the very modern politics of Spain which I think was called The Ghosts of Spain and another The New Spaniards. I really learnt alot from them
> ...


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## CltFlyboy (Feb 11, 2020)

kaipa said:


> CltFlyboy said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks! I think this is the book you're talking about, I'll order it
> ...


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