# Existing Convenio Especial



## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

Does anyone know if convenio especial is transferable to another autonomous region. Health care for early retirees.

We live in the Canaries so have our Tarjeta and Social Security Number issued via Las Palmas.

We plan to live in Murcia. Is its simply a case of registering on the Pedron and NIE etc and simply transferring 

We do use the health system here without problem.

Thanks


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expatcanary said:


> Does anyone know if convenio especial is transferable to another autonomous region. Health care for early retirees.
> 
> We live in the Canaries so have our Tarjeta and Social Security Number issued via Las Palmas.
> 
> ...


Luckily for you the convenio especial is available in Murcia, so you should be able to transfer it.

I'm not sure how that would work - whether it would be any different to transferring with a TS of any other kind.

Usually when you move, you register on the padrón & then take that & your TS to the local centro de salud in order to register locally.


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

Thanks for that.

We had great difficulty in Lanzarote applying. Nobody had heard of it. Took us just over 12 months to finally get it.

You apply here via the general hospital.

We we forced to go through our solicitor in the end as many residents here are finding. Not fair for us.
It's even different in Tenerife,

My gut told me you would just transfer it.

Cheers


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Good luck  

Let us know how you get on!


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

Thank you I have been doing my research as soon as I hear anything. I will let you know.

It might be a couple of months but will get back to you as any piece of information is so helpful..

Thanks &#55357;&#56842;


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Since you're the first person I've come across who has this, may I ask - does it cover prescription charges?


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

Hi 

We pay full costs of prescriptions. I believe you can get help depending on your income but you will need to go down a different route for that.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

expatcanary said:


> Hi
> 
> We pay full costs of prescriptions. I believe you can get help depending on your income but you will need to go down a different route for that.


Thanks!


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

This topic came up during a conversation in a local bar a couple of months ago.

According to this chap, he had moved from Valencia to Almeria. He too had the Convenio Especial in Valencia and naturally assumed it would be transferred to his new address. Unfortunately, before the Convenio Especial could come into force in Almeria, he was told that he had to reside in the province for 12 months to qualify.

Now I must stress I haven't checked this out, and this information is based solely on a hearsay conversation in a bar..........not usually the most reliable of sources. However, the guy seemed genuine and I have no reason to disbelieve him.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Blanco53 said:


> This topic came up during a conversation in a local bar a couple of months ago.
> 
> According to this chap, he had moved from Valencia to Almeria. He too had the Convenio Especial in Valencia and naturally assumed it would be transferred to his new address. Unfortunately, before the Convenio Especial could come into force in Almeria, he was told that he had to reside in the province for 12 months to qualify.
> 
> Now I must stress I haven't checked this out, and this information is based solely on a hearsay conversation in a bar..........not usually the most reliable of sources. However, the guy seemed genuine and I have no reason to disbelieve him.


I'm pretty sure it isn't yet available in Almería - is it?


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

xabiachica said:


> I'm pretty sure it isn't yet available in Almería - is it?



It has been available in all of Andalucia for over two years now.


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

It's not.

Best not go with hearsay fact much better than fiction. 

I have a very reliable source on the case as we speak.

Will get back with the findings though.


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

expatcanary said:


> It's not.
> 
> Best not go with hearsay fact much better than fiction.
> 
> ...


I can assure the Budgie fancier that the Convenio Especial is available in Almeria.

Indeed you can download an application form here:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/wp-content/uploads/MODELO-SOLICITUD-CONVENIO-ESPECIAL.pdf

It's replies like this that make it little wonder that some people are reluctant to offer any advice.

Since my earlier post, I have now received definite news that YOU DO have to reside in ANDALUCIA FOR 12 MONTHS before you can enroll for the Convenio Especial. FACT


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

Yes exactly what we did. I was aware about convenio in 2014 when we moved from the UK 2014 We applied in 2016 the process for us took nearly a year as the system is different, as explained we have to apply through our local hospital and the cost of using a solicitor. Before that we were covered by private insurance. 

My question was is this transferable,

What has been annoying for some folk is the length of time it has taken to role out across regions. Some feel but this could be hearsay more difficult to obtain since Brexit. Forcing people to get out costly private health insurance. In our case we also have to use a translator as most will refuse to speak English in clinic or hospital. So again more expense.

Hardly fair if the system is there and in place,

Thanks though


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

expatcanary said:


> Yes exactly what we did. I was aware about convenio in 2014 when we moved from the UK 2014 We applied in 2016 the process for us took nearly a year as the system is different, as explained we have to apply through our local hospital and the cost of using a solicitor. Before that we were covered by private insurance.
> 
> My question was is this transferable,
> 
> ...



I fear you haven't really grasped the fundamentals of the principles of how government works in Spain and the provision of social care in particular. Whilst Spain is not a federation, it is a highly decentralised unitary state. It's not a question of the state government having a policy and "rolling out across the regions". Indeed they are not regions they are *autonomous communities.* 

As a result, more and more responsibilities have been assumed by the autonomous communities in areas such as social welfare, health, and education. It is the autonomous communities that set the rules, and as result, there are vastly different rules between each. So, for example, the Spanish Succession Tax regime, and individual inheriting from someone who lived and then died in say Murcia may pay significantly more in tax than inheriting from a deceased individual who lived in say Andalucia.

So the simple answer to your question is that *the Convenio Especial is NON-TRANSFERRABLE * Each autonomous community will have their own rules. In Andalucia you will have to live in the community for 12 months before the Convenio Especial can be issued, regardless of whether you have had this in another community before. Each community will have their own rules, so Murcia may be different.

Finally, I do find it a bit of cheek to blame the Spanish for speaking their own language in their own country. The comment " as most will refuse to speak English in clinic or hospital" is rather sad. As an immigrant, it is your responsibility to learn the language....not the other way round. If you can't be bothered to do so, then you can hardly complain that you have to pay for a translator.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Blanco53 said:


> I can assure the Budgie fancier that the Convenio Especial is available in Almeria.
> 
> Indeed you can download an application form here:
> https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/wp-content/uploads/MODELO-SOLICITUD-CONVENIO-ESPECIAL.pdf
> ...


:doh:

That's my geography letting me down!

I totally forgot that Almería is a province of the comunidad of Andalucía

Yes, it has been available in Andalucía for a couple of years now.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Blanco53 said:


> I fear you haven't really grasped the fundamentals of the principles of how government works in Spain and the provision of social care in particular. Whilst Spain is not a federation, it is a highly decentralised unitary state. It's not a question of the state government having a policy and "rolling out across the regions". Indeed they are not regions they are *autonomous communities.*
> 
> As a result, more and more responsibilities have been assumed by the autonomous communities in areas such as social welfare, health, and education. It is the autonomous communities that set the rules, and as result, there are vastly different rules between each. So, for example, the Spanish Succession Tax regime, and individual inheriting from someone who lived and then died in say Murcia may pay significantly more in tax than inheriting from a deceased individual who lived in say Andalucia.
> 
> ...


Totally in agreement. Here there is no Convenio Especial and with so few foreigners living here, I suspect it will never come. I'm not convinced medical people " refuse" to speak English, I'm pretty sure it's because explaining medical facts to someone in another language is, if not totally fluent, fraught with dangers.


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

Hi only our experience here of the Canarian system I am afraid we do try to speak the language but as we live in a predominately tourist area. No luck

We chose to live amongst the Canarian population having one couple from Madrid one side and a couple from Valentia the other. Even they complain about the system here.

Unfortunately English and Spanish refuse to speak in my native language Welsh. I can speak English and a modicum of Spanish. 

We have no intention of ever going back to the UK.

Convenio especial is available to all British Citizens because of reciprocal agreements. I would question why you are not receiving this, why is it taking so long for your region to introduce it, especially as you are paying into the system.

My original questions still stands. Is it transferable.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expatcanary said:


> Hi only our experience here of the Canarian system I am afraid we do try to speak the language but as we live in a predominately tourist area. No luck
> 
> We chose to live amongst the Canarian population having one couple from Madrid one side and a couple from Valentia the other. Even they complain about the system here.
> 
> ...


The convenio especial is nothing to do with reciprocal agreements. 

It's a buy in arrangement for _anyone_ who has no other access to healthcare.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

many people live in tourist areas and still learn Spanish
It's not reciprocal it's nothing to do with being British it's something that the autonomous regions can offer IF the want to. 
You are probably better of contacting the Dept of health in the region you want to move to, and possibly the local office where you need to register, because experience says, one office does not always agree with another. It may be that you have to be resident in a region for a year to get it or resident in Spain i.e. Officially resident


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Blanco53 said:


> Finally, I do find it a bit of cheek to blame the Spanish for speaking their own language in their own country. The comment " as most will refuse to speak English in clinic or hospital" is rather sad. As an immigrant, it is your responsibility to learn the language....not the other way round. If you can't be bothered to do so, then you can hardly complain that you have to pay for a translator.


I wish the UK had the same policy, NHS translation budget was £23 million years ago, probably tripled now.


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

I agree Isobella I worked in the NHS.

All us foreigners who live here on this island are being pushed towards private health care. We pay 120 euro a month to cover our health needs with convenio, but still, l, we come up against obstacles.

All of us who buy homes, contribute to the economy buying, supermarket shopping, buying guide cars, furniture etc. Most Spanish children are taught English in school..

It is well known that the some Lanzoritians hate the foreigners who have brought up homes. Many left empty by absentee landlords or owners rarely coming over or illegally renting to tourists and not paying tax on their earnings. There is a shortage of housing for the local population.

This now has an impact as more homes are targets for squatters. Locals go around the urbanisation looking for properties to squat in. The law takes 5 years to evict them.

We have made the effort to live within the local population and mix and have Spanish friends and Canarian friends.

So surely the eye raising and sniggering is uncalled for when trying to get a point across in a medical situation.

Much different under private health care a translator automatically provided.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

expatcanary said:


> Much different under private health care a translator automatically provided.


I've had private health cover in Spain for over 8 years now in Andalucia, and not once at any clinic or hospital have I been even offered a translator, let alone had one automatically provided. The doctor or nurse asks ¿Habla español?, I say "si" and we proceed in Spanish. That's how it has always been. Once in a private hospital in Málaga capital someone from their Customer Services Department (a German lady who spoke fluent English) did come to visit me in my room prior to surgery to run through the process and ask if I had any questions, but that was the only time.

I do agree, by the way, that the UK should never have gone down the route of providing translators, especially free at the point of use, for those who don't speak English. It would have been far better to make English classes compulsory for anyone moving to the country and provide those free of charge. I'd be in support of that happening in Spain too, that anyone moving here should attend classes to learn the language.


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

expatcanary said:


> My original questions still stands. Is it transferable.




Today, at 08:14 AM on this thread I wrote:

".........the simple answer to your question is that the Convenio Especial is NON-TRANSFERRABLE"

So why does it still stand?

I then went on to explain:

"........Each autonomous community will have their own rules. In Andalucia you will have to live in the community for 12 months before the Convenio Especial can be issued, regardless of whether you have had this in another community before. Each community will have their own rules............"


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

I have spoken to a very nice lady in the offices in Las Palmas who dealt with our convenio.

Regardless of autonomous region our convenio number on the Tarjeta is unique to us just like our social security number. Spain are obligated to provide us health cover as that is the agreement between Spain and the UK.

All thar needs to be done is the health costs be transferred to another region just as they do in the UK. She was also alarmed that English was not offered to us and they will look into that as English is offered in all if the other islands. 

Thanks all but question now answered and feel satisfied with the response.

As we have already lived in Spain for nearly 4 years that also covers us.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

expatcanary said:


> I have spoken to a very nice lady in the offices in Las Palmas who dealt with our convenio.
> 
> Regardless of autonomous region our convenio number on the Tarjeta is unique to us just like our social security number. Spain are obligated to provide us health cover as that is the agreement between Spain and the UK.
> 
> ...



It is not an agreement between the U.K. And Spain. As for English being offered, I'm sorry I cannot believe the sheer ability of some immigrants living abroad who still think that everyone should bow down to the English language. Here in Extremadura Sry few people speak English. My husband had two operations this year, no English I translated , I didn't complain it Spain FFS why would they speak English 

I would personally confirm in the area you want to move to, because it doesn't matter what they do on the Islands, or here or in Galicia it's what your local office says that counts


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

Megsmum said:


> It is not an agreement between the U.K. And Spain. As for English being offered, I'm sorry I cannot believe the sheer ability of some immigrants living abroad who still think that everyone should bow down to the English language. Here in Extremadura Sry few people speak English. My husband had two operations this year, no English I translated , I didn't complain it Spain FFS why would they speak English
> 
> I would personally confirm in the area you want to move to, because it doesn't matter what they do on the Islands, or here or in Galicia it's what your local office says that counts


I agree with you 100%.

It appears that expatcanary only wants to believe someone who gives him the answers that he wants to hear!!!

I wish him the best of luck.......I think he's going to need it!!!


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

expatcanary said:


> I have spoken to a very nice lady in the offices in Las Palmas who dealt with our convenio.
> 
> Regardless of autonomous region our convenio number on the Tarjeta is unique to us just like our social security number. Spain are obligated to provide us health cover as that is the agreement between Spain and the UK.
> 
> ...



Actually I read this again and it can't be true

Not every region offers it, so Spain is not obligated to give it to you 
What has living in Spain four years got to do with it? No one, unless here before 2012 and Resident gets healthcare?

Again, as has been said rules are different in every autonomous region


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

And a quick google search I find

Spanish regional health authorities offer a pay-in scheme for health care services. This is called ‘Convenio Especial’ and should be available from a local social security office. This is a public health care insurance scheme that is available throughout Spain to enable expats to access state-run health care. The scheme is managed by each autonomous region, so there may be some variations between them.

The Convenio Especial is the Spanish Governmentâs health insurance scheme through which those who donât have access to state-provided healthcare (e.g. through a state pension or benefit) can join to get cover. You would also need to have been registered at the local town hall for at least a year before being about to apply for this scheme. From the information you have provided it does not appear as though you would qualify.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expatcanary said:


> I have spoken to a very nice lady in the offices in Las Palmas who dealt with our convenio.
> 
> Regardless of autonomous region our convenio number on the Tarjeta is unique to us just like our social security number. Spain are obligated to provide us health cover as that is the agreement between Spain and the UK.
> 
> ...


Please let us know how you get on

I'd be interested to know if Andalucía _does _insist that you are living there 12 months before they allow you to benefit from it. Logically they shouldn't, since it's actually a national scheme, that not all comunidades have yet activated. You already have a tarjeta sanitaria so it _should_ be able to be transferred........ but as said, individual comunidades do have their own rules.

However..... the lady in the offices in Las Palmas has one thing very wrong indeed. The convenio especial is nothing to do with any agreement between the UK & Spain. It is available to *anyone of any nationality* who fulfills the requirements.

The UK (or other country) simply has to confirm to Spain that you have no access to healthcare there. _The agreement is between you & Spain._


The only agreement that the UK or any other EU country has with Spain, is that if you have an S1, then that will be accepted by Spain, & that the UK (or whichever other EU country which issues them) will fund your healthcare by paying Spain a fixed amount per year.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Why complain about requirements around the Convenio Especial when it's far cheaper than international private health insurance? Frankly, I think expats in Spain that can access it are very fortunate, especially given the state of the Spanish economy. It seems to me extraordinary that some people choose to relocate to Spain because of the lower cost of housing and generally lower cost of living, and then complain about things like this. I guess it takes all types.

The answer about whether it is transferable has already been provided - it is not.


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

Firstly watch how you speak to a lady I am not a gentleman is that why I am getting very disagreeable posts.

I do speak a lot of Spanish but not enough to converse medically. All Lanzoritians here agree with their health system is at fault. We have to be flown over to mainland Spain or one of the other islands for surgery. Patients have to be flown over to Gran Canaria daily to have radiotherapy treatment. Why because corrupt officials stole money from their councils so no money for health care.

I was told to complain by a Spanish Surgeon a couple of days ago. I was not complying about lack of English today it just I wanted to find out about convenio.

I was a senior nurse in the NHS for 42 years and I told patients if they were not happy with treatment of any part of the service to complain to the management services and their MP.

Every Country has a patients charter to be treated with respect and dignity and kindness no matter what gender, ethnic persuasion 

I am shocked at the hostility at some of the posts and remember why I left in 2014. Rarely posts are helpful but know all in content.

I live in Spain and enjoy the culture and people more than citizens of the UK at times.

I suggest some alter their tone and try and answer a question properly without resorting to a points scoring exercise.

How rude.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

expatcanary said:


> Firstly watch how you speak to a lady I am not a gentleman is that why I am getting very disagreeable posts.
> 
> I do speak a lot of Spanish but not enough to converse medically. All Lanzoritians here agree with their health system is at fault. We have to be flown over to mainland Spain or one of the other islands for surgery. Patients have to be flown over to Gran Canaria daily to have radiotherapy treatment. Why because corrupt officials stole money from their councils so no money for health care.
> 
> ...


Actually, you brought up the issues of language 

What has been annoying for some folk is the length of time it has taken to role out across regions. Some feel but this could be hearsay more difficult to obtain since Brexit. Forcing people to get out costly private health insurance. In our case we also have to use a translator as most will refuse to speak English in clinic or hospital. So again more expense.



Most have offered you advice as to whether or not you can transfer or the fact that some of your facts were incorrect i.e. It's available to all, it's reciprocal etc. 
There are no scoring points, people are simply responding to your question and your statement that no one spoke English. 

I too was a nurse for 30 odd years, personally I agree the NHS should charge for translation services, except in an emergency


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

It seems to me it's not so long ago that the UK offered S1s to early retirees living in the EU. The UK chose to discontinue that arrangement. At the time, as I recall, many Brits living in the UK thought that was unfair (doubtless many still do). Health cover arrangements vary throughout the EU. Brexit will further complicate things for UK retirees in the EU. Unfair? Possibly, but that's the way it is. When the UK chose to freeze pensions for Brits living in Australia, that was also unfair (although frankly I heard far less outcry there - apart from the Australian government which found itself suddenly with additional responsibilities). I suspect if I were the OP I would be far more concerned with whether I would get an S1 once I reached OAP age. 

(BTW, whilst I have three nationalities I'm originally UK born and raised. I potentially could access some tiny pension payment from the UK which would then have included an S1, but have never bothered to do so. Everyone's different, so different strokes for different folks I guess. I also lived and worked in Spain well before either Spain or the UK joined the EU - got my health cover through my job, but cannot apply for my Spanish pension since Spain got into severe financial difficulties and removed that avenue for people like myself, which I see as perfectly reasonable in the circumstances.)


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

I never said once translation services should be offered free. I said as ex pats we have to pay for services here. As an ex nurse I could make a fortune per hour translating. I give my advice free.

I have got convenio especial it took us some considerable time to get it here. So my experience.

My question was is it transferable?

I got the answer from Las Palmas today and not apart from my first response were helpful

There are plenty of posts about convenio especial. A better vehicle would have been that to complain surely.

As I already had and Murcia where we are going to live has it. That is all I needed to know.

We had a great fight on our hands here so I suggest others do the same in their areas if they feel the need as it probably be a different experience again.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

expatcanary said:


> I never said once translation services should be offered free. I said as ex pats we have to pay for services here. As an ex nurse I could make a fortune per hour translating. I give my advice free.
> 
> I have got convenio especial it took us some considerable time to get it here. So my experience.
> 
> ...



But the point people were making was simply

It should/might be but it depends on where your moving to
Different regions have different interpretations of it
Not every region offers it and neither do they have to


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

We missed out on the S1 by weeks in 2014.

We realise our state pensions will be frozen and happy with that as we chose to live here.

We get by very comfortably on small private pensions but as we live in a lovely country, quite happy. 

Am happy that the president after initial annoyance seems to be trying to sort out our future requirements. 


As there seems to be a lot of confusion as to my original thread I am withdrawing from this thread


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

Megsmum said:


> But the point people were making was simply
> 
> It should/might be but it depends on where your moving to
> Different regions have different interpretations of it
> Not every region offers it and neither do they have to


Murcia has it thank you and transferable x


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

expatcanary said:


> Murcia has it thank you and transferable x


Well, there you go - no worries


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

Members my find this link informative

HEALTHCARE BOOSTER TO SUIT EXPATS | Canarian Weekly in Tenerife
HEALTHCARE BOOSTER TO SUIT EXPATS | Canarian Weekly in Tenerife


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

expatcanary said:


> We missed out on the S1 by weeks in 2014.
> 
> We realise our state pensions will be frozen and happy with that as we chose to live here.
> 
> ...


What do you mean that your state pensions will be frozen?


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

You do not get the annual cost of living increases as in the UK it stays the same as when you start collecting it.

Mrs Jones get £3.50 for instance we get nowt. It's a swizz especially as my private pension is unaffected and I get the normal rises.

A lot of the British population do not support us getting heating allowance either. Some parts of Spain get really cold most agree we shouldn't get increases in our state pension either or be allowed to vote in elections as we chose to leave the UK 

Cynical but true


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

expatcanary said:


> You do not get the annual cost of living increases as in the UK it stays the same as when you start collecting it.
> 
> Mrs Jones get £3.50 for instance we get nowt. It's a swizz especially as my private pension is unaffected and I get the normal rises.
> 
> ...


if you are a UK OAP living in Spain, you DO get annual increases. If you have not yet retired but have the prospect of less than a full pension, you can also make Cat 2 or Cat 4 contributions to buy added years to increase your ultimate pension. At the moment, if you have worked in more than one EU country, EU Pension Regulations apply and your employment in each country is taken into account when calculating your pension.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expatcanary said:


> You do not get the annual cost of living increases as in the UK it stays the same as when you start collecting it.
> 
> Mrs Jones get £3.50 for instance we get nowt. It's a swizz especially as my private pension is unaffected and I get the normal rises.
> 
> ...


ermm you do (currently) get the cost of living increase to the state pension


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

expatcanary said:


> You do not get the annual cost of living increases as in the UK it stays the same as when you start collecting it.
> 
> Mrs Jones get £3.50 for instance we get nowt. It's a swizz especially as my private pension is unaffected and I get the normal rises.
> 
> ...


UK pensioners residing in the EU get exactly the same pension as thier counterparts in the U.K. Including any increases. I thought the heating allowance had been stopped for pensioners living abroad?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> UK pensioners residing in the EU get exactly the same pension as thier counterparts in the U.K. Including any increases. I thought the heating allowance had been stopped for pensioners living abroad?


You're correct. The heating allowance is indeed no longer paid to British pensioners living in Spain.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Megsmum said:


> UK pensioners residing in the EU get exactly the same pension as thier counterparts in the U.K. Including any increases. I thought the heating allowance had been stopped for pensioners living abroad?


It has indeed been stopped. UK pensioners living in most EU countries (there are some exceptions including Italy and probably the Eastern European countries, given that the decision was based on Iain Duncan Smith's temperature test) stopped receiving the WFA with effect from winter 2016.

There has not, however, been any change as yet to the fact that UK pensioners living within the EEA (and other countries outside the EEA with which the UK has a reciprocal agreement) do still receive the same annual increases in their state pension as those residing in the UK do. That may or may not change once Brexit is concluded, none of us know whether that is likely to happen or not.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...e-pay-an-annual-increase-in-the-state-pension

Expatcanary seems a trifle confused.


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

Well pensioners here certainly got their heating allowance. Perhaps it still hasn't filtered through to he powers that be.

I am not in receipt of my state pension yet hence convenio and have been advised on my receipt of pension which is the new state pension I will not recieve any increases. You actually do not receive the full amount as my private pension was contracted out.

Not a trifle confused just a trifle deaf


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expatcanary said:


> Well pensioners here certainly got their heating allowance. Perhaps it still hasn't filtered through to he powers that be.
> 
> I am not in receipt of my state pension yet hence convenio and* have been advised on my receipt of pension which is the new state pension I will not recieve any increases.* You actually do not receive the full amount as my private pension was contracted out.
> 
> Not a trifle confused just a trifle deaf


Who advised you of that?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

According to the official UK Government website, annual increases (via the triple lock) do apply to the new State Pension.

https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/how-its-calculated

My husband did formerly receive the WFA (just for a few years, after the EU forced the UK Government to pay it to pensioners residing within the EU) but did not receive it in December 2016 after the "temperature test" was introduced. 

I wonder if those pensioners living in the Canary Islands who, Expatcanary tells us, are still receiving it, are amongst those who have never registered as residents in Spain and continue to maintain a UK address for certain purposes?


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

xabiachica said:


> Who advised you of that?


Department of Work and Pensions on asking for my forecast. Got it in writing. 

I can assure you all pensioners here did get their heating allowance. 

It made no sense to me either as we simply do not need it here. 

As one poster said maybe they haven't registered as resident here. That is not fair in my view.

I seem to do everything by the book and get penalised. Too honest


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expatcanary said:


> Department of Work and Pensions on asking for my forecast. Got it in writing.
> 
> I can assure you all pensioners here did get their heating allowance.
> 
> ...


The DWP gave you official info that living in Spain you won't get the increase? 

Yes, as suggested, the only way anyone living in Spain got the heating allowance this winter would have been by lying about where they live. Surely not ALL British pensioners in the Canaries do that?


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

xabiachica said:


> The DWP gave you official info that living in Spain you won't get the increase?
> 
> Yes, as suggested, the only way anyone living in Spain got the heating allowance this winter would have been by lying about where they live. Surely not ALL British pensioners in the Canaries do that?



No the increase is due to the new pension rules. Had that in writing as I often follow things up she advised me of that part on the phone about living in Spain. 

However, as they do not fully commit to an answer a cautionary things may well change at time of pension receipt. 

So role on 2019 and wait and see. Very annoying for sure.

I know a few people are dissapointed with the new rules on the stare pension. You are not told at the time about your pension being contracted out. It benefits them tax wise apparently. 

Pensioners get a raw deal as it is.

Some who have no private pension and paid in less than me will get the new rate.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

expatcanary said:


> No the increase is due to the new pension rules. Had that in writing as I often follow things up she advised me of that part on the phone about living in Spain.
> 
> However, as they do not fully commit to an answer a cautionary things may well change at time of pension receipt.
> 
> ...


Yet according to the govt's own website the new pension is still index linked. This is from the link Lynn posted a few posts back

https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/how-its-calculated



> *Annual increases*
> The new State Pension increases each year by whichever is the highest:
> 
> earnings – the average percentage growth in wages (in Great Britain)
> ...




I had always expected to be able to retire at 60. I now have to work until I'm 67.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I've been a member of a number of contracted-out pension schemes when I worked in the UK, and in every case the documentation I was given when I joined did make clear that it was contractd out (in fact when contracting out was first introduced, which was a long time ago now, the employer certainly did send us information leaflets and circulars about it). The advantage "tax wise" to both employers and employees was that they paid lower NI contributions than those who were not contracted out of the state second pension - 1.5% lower in the case of employees in contracted out schemes. Employers' NI contributions in contracted-out schemes were 3.5% lower.

Of course, we didn't know at the time about the effect this would have on the amount of state pension we would eventually receive - unsurprisingly, because the new state second pension scheme hadn't even been dreamed up then. However, right from the time the so called single tier pension was proposed (and in reality it's anything but single tier) if anybody bothered to read the documentation in full (the White Paper for example) it was clear that this was their intention - so it didn't take me by surprise.

Unlike many European countries, Spain being one of them, the UK state pension is not linked in any way to workers' former earnings or how much they actually contributed in NI contributions, but only to the number of years' contributions made, with protection by way of Pension Credit for those who have not been able to build up an entitlement to a full state pension. It can be tempting to feel aggrieved that someone who paid in far less than I did would get the same or more state pension than I will, but I have to remember that not everybody who didn't pay enough NI to qualify is an idle wastrel - I have an aunt who was in that position and it was because she spent a large part of what should have been her working life as an unpaid carer for my grandfather. I certainly wouldn't have wanted her life and don't begrudge her the little dignity in old age which Pension Credit affords her.


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

I am not saying that. But it seems to be a bit of a status symbol. They lie about tax on property on earnings so why not heating allowance.

At least 10 I know well did recieve it others are claims. 

I am certainly not a liar if that is what you are inferring. 

It's a badge to some at actually what they can get away with.

As you know my taxes go through the proper channels. The Canarian government are getting wise to it but to the cost of us honest ones.

I certainly would like to see threads as why they are so dishonest. Yet I seem the one you have a go at.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

:focus:

This thread is about the Convenio especial not about pensions and the WFA.

:focus:


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## expatcanary (Apr 19, 2017)

I agree Baldilocks. I started the thread about convenio.

Unfortunately this happens all the time on forums.

It helps no one. I left forum in 2014 when I first queried convenio.

I am certainly not wasting my time anymore. Just find out for yourself like I did. Not you Baldilocks and some others.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

It's a discussion forum

People discuss things & sometimes the discussion drifts.

In this case the only way we'll know the answer to the original question for sure is when expatcanary is either successful or fails to transfer the convenio especial to another region. 

Those of us who have lived here a while know that almost everything Spanish red tape wise is open to interpretation by the funcionario on duty when you roll up to their desk.

So we'll just have to wait & see what happens.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

expatcanary said:


> I am not saying that. But it seems to be a bit of a status symbol. They lie about tax on property on earnings so why not heating allowance.
> 
> At least 10 I know well did recieve it others are claims.
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone here was suggesting that, nor having a go at you. Rather, it seems that some are questioning whether some things are actually the case.

And of course the DWP have to protect their backs - after all they don't have a crystal ball and can easily find themselves in the firing line. Maybe at the time they gave you the potential worst case scenario just to be on the safe side - who knows? Only time will tell.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

expatcanary said:


> Well pensioners here certainly got their heating allowance. Perhaps it still hasn't filtered through to he powers that be.
> 
> I am not in receipt of my state pension yet hence convenio and have been advised on my receipt of pension which is the new state pension I will not recieve any increases. You actually do not receive the full amount as my private pension was contracted out.
> 
> Not a trifle confused just a trifle deaf



We have recently got our forecasts. I too get a small reduction in my state pension due to NHS pension.. approx £5 pw, not worth worrying about. However no where does it say pensions are going to be increased with inflation on an annual basis. I've searched high and low.... there is nothing about state pensions not remaining index linked for pensioners abroad. Post Brexit this may change

I'm amazed people gitbheating allowances, they must either be lying about their status or living illegally in Spain, therefore post Brexit there days may well be up !



> Brexit has heightened political interest in frozen state pensions, because the 472,000 people who have retired to other EU countries currently get automatic annual increases, but it is unclear whether the UK will strike a deal for this to continue after its departure.
> That means elderly EU expats would join the other 550,000 retirees whose payments no longer increase in line with the state pension triple lock - whichever is the highest of inflation, average earnings or 2.5 per cent - as they do if you stay in or return to the UK.



seems like the Islands are in some parallel universe to the rest of us. Where's our chapmfrom El Herro (sp)


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Is there a list somewhere of which Provinces operate the Convenio Especial?

Have looked on google but no luck so far


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Rabbitcat said:


> Is there a list somewhere of which Provinces operate the Convenio Especial?
> 
> Have looked on google but no luck so far


Healthcare is organised by _comunidad_, not by province. Comundades are made up of more than one province. For example the comunidad of Valencia consists of the three provinces of Alicante, Valencia & Castellón.

There's a list of those where the convenio especial is available here https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthcare-in-spain


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Thank you very much

You taught me two things at once

I never knew Castellon was in with us. 

Don't know how I feel about that actually. It's like being made to share a villa with a family you don't know. Who are these Castellons? Are they house trained, are they similar to us ( do they prefer Branston baked beans to Heinz?). You have raised so many questions


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

I'm not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs, but there does appear to be an element of confusion over Autonomous Communities and Provinces. The lists below may help to illustrate how Spain is governed.

Autonomous Communities: Andalusia, Aragon, Asturias, Balearic Islands, Basque Country, Canary Islands, Cantabria, Castile-La Mancha, Castile-Leon, Catalonia, Extremadura, Galicia, La Rioja, Madrid, Murcia, Navarre, Valencia.

Autonomous Communities, Capitals: Barcelona, Las Palmas de Gran Canaria, Logroño, Madrid, Mérida, Murcia, Oviedo, Palma de Mallorca, Pamplona, Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Santander, Santiago de Compostela, Sevilla, Toledo, Valencia, Valladolid, Vitoria, Zaragoza.

Spain : Provinces, Capitals: Albacete, Alicante, Almeria, Avila, Badajoz, Barcelona, Bilbao, Burgos, Caceres, Cádiz, Castellon, Ceuta, Ciudad Real, Córdoba, Cuenca, Gerona, Granada, Guadalajara, Huelva, Huesca, Jaen, La Coruña, Las Palmas de Gran Canaria, Leon, Lerida, Logroño, Lugo, Madrid, Málaga, Melilla, Murcia, Orense, Oviedo, Palencia, Palma de Mallorca, Pamplona, Pontevedra, Salamanca, San Sebastian, Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Santander, Segovia, Sevilla, Soria, Tarragona, Teruel, Toledo, Valencia, Valladolid, Vitoria, Zamora, Zaragoza.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Blanco53 said:


> I'm not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs, but there does appear to be an element of confusion over Autonomous Communities and Provinces. The lists below may help to illustrate how Spain is governed.
> 
> Autonomous Communities: Andalusia, Aragon, Asturias, Balearic Islands, Basque Country, Canary Islands, Cantabria, Castile-La Mancha, Castile-Leon, Catalonia, Extremadura, Galicia, La Rioja, Madrid, Murcia, Navarre, Valencia.
> 
> ...


Very good, now redo it with all the correct accents in their proper places (i.e. in Spanish) and matching the ACs with their capitals, likewise the provinces and showing which provinces are in which AC.


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

baldilocks said:


> Very good, now redo it with all the correct accents in their proper places (i.e. in Spanish) and matching the ACs with their capitals, likewise the provinces and showing which provinces are in which AC.


Ask and you shall get!!!

*QUIZ ONE*
Spain : Autonomous Communities - Map Quiz Game
Spain : Autonomous Communities - Map Quiz Game

*QUIZ TWO*
Spain : Autonomous Communities, Capitals- Map Quiz Game 
Spain : Autonomous Communities, Capitals - Map Quiz Game

*QUIZ THREE*
Spain : Provinces, Capitals - Map Quiz Game
Spain : Provinces, Capitals - Map Quiz Game

Give ir a go!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> seems like the Islands are in some parallel universe to the rest of us. Where's our chapmfrom El Herro (sp)


To be fair some things _are_ different in the Canaries.

That doesn't extend to agreements with Britain though.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Well now that this has all came out I sure have a lot of questions if I ever meet anyone from this interloping province of Castellon!!!!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Blanco53 said:


> Ask and you shall get!!!
> 
> *QUIZ ONE*
> Spain : Autonomous Communities - Map Quiz Game
> ...


Yes, they're all quite easy when you know them. It's a good test for Rabbit.


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

It's tough going

Am convinced some of those are wrong!!!!

And the Navarre place is just made up!!!!!

Getting ready to bounce iPad of walll


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