# Considering moving from Singapore to US



## inquisitivesoul (Aug 27, 2014)

Hi
We are Indian expats in Singapore - family with 2 young children 6 yrs and 1 yr old.
My husbands office has asked him whether he would want to shift to USA. Location mostly to consider is Warren NJ or Tampa. 
Can i pls get some expert opinion on the pros and cons of moving from singapore to usa. 
Warm regards.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

What would be the visa terms? H-1B or L-1 or other? ("Other" here could mean a diplomatic transfer, as an example. Though Tampa and Warren aren't obviously that.) That matters a fair bit.

Have they characterized total compensation yet (wages, housing assistance, relocation assistance, schooling assistance, medical insurance, retirement savings benefits, and so forth)?

This is a good time to _consider_ a move. Presumably by the time you move your 6 year old would start second grade in the U.S., and that's a pretty good time to enter the U.S. school system. (First, second, and third grades all work pretty well.)


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## inquisitivesoul (Aug 27, 2014)

Thank you BBCWatcher to respond to my query.
The visa will be a L1 visa. Compensation will be around 110K USD. there is some medical benefits provided but i think we would need to top up about 1000 dollars per month for exhaustive medical benefits (as per his colleagues in US). I am not sure about other benefits. Will ask my hubby to ask.
Can you suggest what is the approx cost of living. We eat out not more than 2 times in a month. Rest is all home cooked food. 
Wanted to understand the cost of education in USA. 

Thank you for the information. 

Warm regards


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Do you mind characterizing total compensation in Singapore for comparison?


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Between Warren, New Jersey, and Tampa there are some differences. In no particular order:

1. The overall cost of living is a bit lower in Tampa, but it's not a huge difference.

2. Tampa's weather is warmer and somewhat wetter. If you highly value Singapore's weather, Tampa will be more similar. Though both are different, especially in the winter.

3. Warren is very near New York City and all its many things to do. Tampa is not too far from Orlando and Disney World.

4. I tend to think the schools in Warren will be better quality on average, but there are so many micro-level differences -- and Tampa (and vicinity) is so big -- that's it's hard to generalize.

5. If you end up in or near Tampa I'd recommend staying some reasonable distance from the coast. Hurricanes are possible (and inconvenient) in both places -- Hurricane Sandy did a fair bit of damage in Warren -- but parts of Tampa are more prone to flooding more often. It's the flooding that's likely the biggest risk to personal safety in a hurricane. Though there are more basements (cellars) in Warren, and basements can get flooded with or without a hurricane if they're not well designed and well situated.

If the employer offers a "look-see" trip, take it. You can then at least get an initial impression of both places. If they haven't mentioned it, ask.


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## inquisitivesoul (Aug 27, 2014)

Thank you so much for the details. 
One question - with a 110k salary what would be the approx take home after tax deductions?


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Well, 7.65% of that will go into U.S. Social Security and Medicare. A married family of four with two children gets a nice standard deduction, personal exemptions, and tax credits, so the effective income tax rate won't be too high. Very roughly I'd figure about $12,000 in federal income tax, and, for New Jersey (if applicable), I'd figure another $2,500. (Florida does not have a state income tax.)

So, very, very roughly, there'd probably be about $20,000 to $23,000 in total income and payroll taxes. But please search for and try online tax estimators to get a better idea. I'm also assuming you don't take good advantage of tax-favored retirement savings programs -- 401(k) and/or IRA plans -- and that's probably a mistake.


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## ssrini (Nov 21, 2010)

inquisitivesoul said:


> Thank you so much for the details.
> One question - with a 110k salary what would be the approx take home after tax deductions?


Well based on the location, I guess employer is Citi and I have worked in Warren and I can tell you round figure will be 3100 every bi-weekly in hand if you pay 300 for medical from your own and in hand figure will change based upon medical contribution...,

Yearly there will be 26 payments and 2k of tax refund that makes it 80k in hand in an year.

Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

inquisitivesoul said:


> Thank you so much for the details.
> One question - with a 110k salary what would be the approx take home after tax deductions?


There is no state income tax in Florida, but Ohio does have one. That would be a considerable saving. Not sure of the rate, generally in the five-to-eight percent range.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> There is no state income tax in Florida, but Ohio does have one. That would be a considerable saving. Not sure of the rate, generally in the five-to-eight percent range.


Also $1,000 a month medical in addition to employer-provided does seem very high for a young, healthy family, but I don't know for sure.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

BBCWatcher said:


> What would be the visa terms? H-1B or L-1 or other? ("Other" here could mean a diplomatic transfer, as an example. Though Tampa and Warren aren't obviously that.) That matters a fair bit.
> 
> Have they characterized total compensation yet (wages, housing assistance, relocation assistance, schooling assistance, medical insurance, retirement savings benefits, and so forth)?
> 
> This is a good time to _consider_ a move. Presumably by the time you move your 6 year old would start second grade in the U.S., and that's a pretty good time to enter the U.S. school system. (First, second, and third grades all work pretty well.)


Also there is a tremendous weather difference between Ohio and Florida. Ohio is in the MidWest, characterized by bitter cold winters and huge snow falls, blizzards, that cripple cities for two-three days at a time. Also, Ohio people, and many in MidWest, New England, suffer from various levels of winter depression and pretty much hate life from Dec through March. Not the case in Florida. Sunny and cheerful year round. Forget those hurricane warnings. That is mostly for right on beach living. Some hurricanes have hit inland but that is very rare.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Who said anything about Ohio? Not the original poster. Yes, there's a Warren, Ohio. There's also a Warren, New Jersey, as the original poster stated. I think we have to assume the original poster has a choice between _New Jersey_ and Florida.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

Well, OK, but still the same miserable winter in both, and NJ has as high if not higher income tax. Same-same.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

No, it's not the same, _as pointed out upthread_ if one would care to read. Warren, New Jersey, is very near New York City, and that's an attraction/amenity all by itself. Theater, food, museums, concerts and other performing arts.... it's a world class city with many wonderful things to see and do, and it's easy to get there and back from Warren, New Jersey within the same day. Warren, Ohio, is considerably farther from New York City and nowhere close to any other comparable city (if there were such a city).

If the only things one cares about are weather and state income tax rates, then you might have a point. But most sane people care about many other attributes!


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## Bellthorpe (Jun 23, 2013)

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> Ohio is in the MidWest


It needs to be said for those not from the US, that when Americans say 'Ohio is in the mid-west', they actually mean 'Ohio is in the east' (of the country).


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Well, it's not exactly "east" either. Best to just look at a map. 

Who the heck mentioned Ohio anyway? Ignore this whole Ohio digression, please. It's a lovely state but completely irrelevant to this thread.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

BBCWatcher said:


> No, it's not the same, _as pointed out upthread_ if one would care to read. Warren, New Jersey, is very near New York City, and that's an attraction/amenity all by itself. Theater, food, museums, concerts and other performing arts.... it's a world class city with many wonderful things to see and do, and it's easy to get there and back from Warren, New Jersey within the same day. Warren, Ohio, is considerably farther from New York City and nowhere close to any other comparable city (if there were such a city).
> 
> If the only things one cares about are weather and state income tax rates, then you might have a point. But most sane people care about many other attributes!


I lived in Manhattan for nine years, BBCWatcher. It is unique. But we're talking about a family with two small children, one an infant. I also lived in Queens. Believe me, even from Queens, going to Manhattan with kids (which I had by time I moved to Queens) to partake of the delights you mentioned in just not an option except for maybe once a month, or on a weekend. But from New Jersey? Once a month at most, and there will be school events soon taking up many weekends. It'll be at least two hours each way, from Warren, N,J or four hours for a day trip. Let's be realistic. Sure, they can go in on special events, Christmas show, Bronx Zoo. And well, you're right, for these Indian expats, Manhattan does have a wonderfully vibrant Indian community of great cultural centers, restaurants and food stores, so I should've mentioned that. I don't know about Tampa's Indian expat scene.

Therefore, for all practical purposes except that one, weather and savings from no income tax are far more important, IMO. Up to OP what she takes away, right? Again, this is for a young family, not retired folks or young singles.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> Well, OK, but still the same miserable winter in both, and NJ has as high if not higher income tax. Same-same.


You tell a NJ resident that he is the same as an Ohioan and you have a problem to deal with

OP has the options Tampa or New Jersey.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Which location is more beneficial for the working spouse 's professional development such as promotion, bonus, potential Green Card, move to competitor? 110k may sound like much but what is the family used to as far as amenities of daily life are concerned? It will not allow for nanny or even an au-pair.


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## inquisitivesoul (Aug 27, 2014)

ssrini said:


> Well based on the location, I guess employer is Citi and I have worked in Warren and I can tell you round figure will be 3100 every bi-weekly in hand if you pay 300 for medical from your own and in hand figure will change based upon medical contribution...,
> 
> Yearly there will be 26 payments and 2k of tax refund that makes it 80k in hand in an year.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ExpatForum


That means about 30 k going out on social security and tax? Whew... that is a big amount. How comfortable is it with a family of 4? We then will need to condider tge cost of dducation etc plus the cost incurred on putting the 2 kids on extra cirricular activities like swimming, sports, ballet etc.


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## inquisitivesoul (Aug 27, 2014)

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> There is no state income tax in Florida, but Ohio does have one. That would be a considerable saving. Not sure of the rate, generally in the five-to-eight percent range.


The city Warren we need to consider is in NJ.


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## inquisitivesoul (Aug 27, 2014)

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> Also $1,000 a month medical in addition to employer-provided does seem very high for a young, healthy family, but I don't know for sure.


One of my hubbys colleague mentioned it. We are also not sure.


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## inquisitivesoul (Aug 27, 2014)

twostep said:


> Which location is more beneficial for the working spouse 's professional development such as promotion, bonus, potential Green Card, move to competitor? 110k may sound like much but what is the family used to as far as amenities of daily life are concerned? It will not allow for nanny or even an au-pair.


My hubby is considering the aspects related to his professional growth. Amenity wise we are very much spoilt in Singapore although we hardly save any money. I do have a full time helper. We stay in houses having a separate maid room and maid bathroom.there is a swimming pool inside the apartment and it is a gated safe community. Education is costly. Plus i send my elder one to various enrichment classes for dance, music, swimming, abacus etc. Everything is easily accessible by safe public transport.
Can we really afford all this in US?


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

inquisitivesoul said:


> My hubby is considering the aspects related to his professional growth. Amenity wise we are very much spoilt in Singapore although we hardly save any money. I do have a full time helper. We stay in houses having a separate maid room and maid bathroom.there is a swimming pool inside the apartment and it is a gated safe community. Education is costly. Plus i send my elder one to various enrichment classes for dance, music, swimming, abacus etc. Everything is easily accessible by safe public transport.
> Can we really afford all this in US?


Not with 110k gross in Tampa or Warren for four people.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

inquisitivesoul said:


> That means about 30 k going out on social security and tax? Whew... that is a big amount. How comfortable is it with a family of 4? We then will need to consider the cost of education etc plus the cost incurred on putting the 2 kids on extra cirricular activities like swimming, sports, ballet etc.


InquisitiveSoul, you've mentioned "cost of education" several times. Does that mean that you plan to place your two young children in private school rather than public school?

Usually there are two main reasons for private: religious schools and quality of education. If your reasons are religious, then there is no argument. If on quality, again up to you, but since you are concerned about overall living costs, one main factor on quality is any difference between private and public at grade school level in the two areas you're considering, Tampa and suburban New Jersey. 

If you were transferring to a major city such as New York City or Chicago, enormous problems exist in public schools that convince many parents to opt for private if financially possible at any age. In suburbs or in smaller cities such as Tampa, however, public schools, especially at elementary level, are generally much better. You have to do research on that for those two specific locales, but again, outside major cities, U.S. public schools are usually pretty good at elementary level (unless concern is religious).

If you do opt for public, costs of outside activities that you mention are not a problem for anyone at the income level that you'll have. 

You haven't mentioned whether you plan to work. If so, then obviously the cost of day care has to be considered. If not, I would suggest that you research the quality of public schools in the area you choose before deciding on the costs of private. 

Many U.S. parents who have to worry about costs often bite the bullet for private once their children reach high school age, well down the road for you, and your own economic situation will probably improve greatly by then, but again, all up to you.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

inquisitivesoul said:


> The city Warren we need to consider is in NJ.


Yes, that was my mistake. Sorry. However, one of the factors that you should still consider is that New Jersey also has a state income tax, and Florida does not. Simple research can get you that rate, but it is generally in five to eight percent range on total adjusted taxable income, usually much less than gross income, but still a financial hit.

All I suggested was that you add this consideration to the other ones that you two are debating, not that it be the determining one.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Apparently nobody is reading upthread because I really did provide pretty accurate tax figures, including estimated New Jersey state income tax.

It is _way_ too simplistic to say "urban = bad." New York City has some absolutely fantastic public schools -- better than most private schools -- and some not-so-wonderful public schools. There are absolutely _dreadful_ schools in rural and suburban areas of Florida. (Florida as a whole is rather infamous for its poor taxpayer support of public schools.) The quality of schools is variable, but it's not variable in that simplistic way.

But it's Warren, New Jersey, and Tampa. The _average_ public school in Warren is probably a bit higher quality than in Tampa, but that's not saying much because your child attends one school at a time, not a mythical average.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

Right, BBC, I agree, let's not let this thread devolve into debate on quality of urban schools. Again, I know NYC. It is true that they have some excellent schools, but places are strictly regulated, often by tests, to which only about five percent qualify, and the rest have to go to overcrowded or let's say, schools that are not very welcoming to newcomers. I don't want to say more, but to say that NYC has "some absolutely fantastic public schools -- better than most private schools" does NOT give useful information to expats seeking to move there, in my opinion only. 

In addition, are you aware of how new mayor De Blasio has thrown a monkey wrench into those schools just recently, announcing he wants to end the practice of test scores determining who gets in, and distributing places that align with NYC's racial makeup. I'm not saying that's good or bad, just something that an expat shouldn't be advised to jump into.

I'll wager that all expat execs put their NYC kids directly into private schools, or more likely, live in the suburbs and use public schools.

I do agree with your opinion of NJ suburban public schools versus Tampa ones, though. I did advise OP to research public (and private if she wants) schools in both cities. I also agree with you as well, that this is more important than state income tax, or lack thereof.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Many private schools also have admission barriers and do not accept every applicant -- or even more than a few applicants.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

BBCWatcher said:


> Many private schools also have admission barriers and do not accept every applicant -- or even more than a few applicants.


Yes, definitely another consideration for OP. She might even be surprised that admissions to many kindergartens are often tougher and much more competitive than to secondary schools.


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## inquisitivesoul (Aug 27, 2014)

Thank you so much for all the opinions and suggestions. I was continuously mentioning about education cost as the local schools/kindergartens in Singapore cost 500 dollars +. Alao any enrichment classes are about 150 to 200 dollars per month. So its pretty costly here.

I would love to actually join back work although it may take me aome time to search and find suitable opportunities. I was working in IT consultancy firms till last year. But i need to come and search for job. Any idea on the job market in Warren and nearby? 

The foremost important thing is to learn driving i guess. How long does one need to learn driving and get a license?


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## inquisitivesoul (Aug 27, 2014)

And yes i will definitely consider local schools. I do not think there is any need for me yo go for a private school for my kids


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

Re: "The foremost thing is to learn driving i guess. How long does one need to learn driving and get a license?"

It's relatively easy to get a license, but that won't make anyone a safe driver. There are many inexpensive driving schools that can teach the rudimentary skills and guide you towards the license, but then I advise you to driver slowly and carefully, as only experience, and unfortunately, many close calls, can give the skills and judgement to make you that safe driver.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

What OP refers to "enrichment" sounds like extracurricular activities which are pretty standard across the board from sports to band to field trips. Public education is free. Extras are not free. Transportation to and from those activities is hardly ever covered by school bus.

Public school districts are defined by county. Pull up maps of Tampa and Warren with county lines then google the respective school district. It seems like Tampa proper is Hillsborough.


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