# Guns



## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

My wife is a natural born Mexican citizen and therefore has the right to buy and own a gun in our own home. We will be going to Mexico City in January to purchase a gun, hopefully two. Does anyone know if she can buy a handgun and a shotgun, or are people here limited to one?

What I read said that you can purchase a gun and two boxes of cartridges, you then get a permit of 72 hours to get it home.

Has anyone here done this? Also, if you hold citizenship does this enable an American to purchase a gun as well?


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

In Mexico you are either a US citizen or a Mexican citizen you cannot be both .


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

G


citlali said:


> In Mexico you are either a US citizen or a Mexican citizen you cannot be both .


We just had a long thread about people becoming citizens of Mexico and several here have dual citizenship. Apparently you can be both as they didn't give up their US citizenship.



citlali said:


> Other US citizens take on another nationality and become dual or triple citizens..You do not have to give up the US citizenship to take on another nationality. Usually you are considered a national of the country where you live and cannot claim the US citizenship there and when in the US you can claim US citizenship and do not claim Mexican citizenship but you do not give up any nationality.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Zorro2017 said:


> G
> 
> We just had a long thread about people becoming citizens of Mexico and several here have dual citizenship. Apparently you can be both as they didn't give up their US citizenship.


I think what citlali means is that if you hold dual citizenship, when you are in Mexico, you are considered to be a Mexican citizen by the authorities and when you are in the States, you are considered to be a US citizen by the powers-that-be.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

Isla Verde said:


> I think what citlali means is that if you hold dual citizenship, when you are in Mexico, you are considered to be a Mexican citizen by the authorities and when you are in the States, you are considered to be a US citizen by the powers-that-be.


Thank you for that Isla, I was just wondering if with Mexican citizenship an American can purchase a gun. Either way we will get one next month but was just curious as to what rights are given by becoming a citizen


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Zorro.. So you understand how it works.. when you become a Mexican Citizen you are asked to give up your other nationality when living in Mexico .. which means that you cannot use the US consulate and you can lose your Mexican nationality if you claim you are a US Citizen.. outside of Mexico you can be wharever you chose. In Mexico someone who is naturalized is Mexican period no point bringing up other nationality. Ther are restrictions on what you can do but owning a gun is not one of them.
You cannot become president and I think the other one is that you cannot pilot a ship or an airplane.. otherwise eyou have the same exact rights as the other Mexicans. You can run for office as well..

The giving up the original citizenship is only when in Mexico and they do not require that you give up your citizenship officially to your country of orgin So you are only a dual citizen outside of Mexico...or you can look at it as you are a dual citizenship who can lose his Mexican citizenship if you claim being a US citizen to the Mexican authorities


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

citlali said:


> Zorro.. So you understand how it works.. when you become a Mexican Citizen you are asked to give up your other nationality when living in Mexico .. which means that you cannot use the US consulate and you can lose your Mexican nationality if you claim you are a US Citizen.. outside of Mexico you can be wharever you chose. In Mexico someone who is naturalized is Mexican period no point bringing up other nationality. Ther are restrictions on what you can do but owning a gun is not one of them.
> You cannot become president and I think the other one is that you cannot pilot a ship or an airplane.. otherwise eyou have the same exact rights as the other Mexicans. You can run for office as well..
> 
> The giving up the original citizenship is only when in Mexico and they do not require that you give up your citizenship officially to your country of orgin So you are only a dual citizen outside of Mexico...or you can look at it as you are a dual citizenship who can lose his Mexican citizenship if you claim being a US citizen to the Mexican authorities


Thank you, I understand now.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Back on subject, Our old departed friend Rolly Brook wrote quite an article on his webpage back in 2012 when the guns laws changed, here is that page:
Owning a Gun in M?xico


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

chicois8 said:


> Back on subject, Our old departed friend Rolly Brook wrote quite an article on his webpage back in 2012 when the guns laws changed, here is that page:
> Owning a Gun in M?xico


Yes, I read that long ago and reading it again I still don't see if you can buy more than one, a handgun and a shotgun, that's why I was asking.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Guess you feel the need to have a gun or rifle in the misty mountains? I will leave this post with one word: vendetta......


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

chicois8 said:


> Guess you feel the need to have a gun or rifle in the misty mountains? I will leave this post with one word: vendetta......


This is a puzzling post, chicois8.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Sumple you shoot an kill someone and the family could very well go after you or your family as well..that is how vendetta works in Corsica.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

citlali said:


> Sumple you shoot an kill someone and the family could very well go after you or your family as well..that is how vendetta works in Corsica.


And in Mexico?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Not responding to anyone particularly, but just making a comment, people have guns for lots of reasons. In my case they were a part of my childhood. I think the only thing I have left from when I was 10 or 12 years old is the two rifles and a shotgun that I got then. I long ago gave up hunting, and never thought of them as useful for self defense accept against bears when working in the field in Alaska. I occasionally use them for target shooting. But mainly I keep them for reasons of nostalgia. They are maybe my only link to a place and time a long ways away and a long time ago. I have thought about moving them to Mexico, but it hasn't risen to a high priority yet.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Yes, and I witnessed it first hand...


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## Motionlessly (Nov 16, 2017)

Interesting read here.


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## LMtortugas (Aug 23, 2013)

Zorro2017 said:


> Yes, I read that long ago and reading it again I still don't see if you can buy more than one, a handgun and a shotgun, that's why I was asking.


My understanding is that a permanent resident of Mexico is offered the same rights regarding ownership of firearms. Mexico restricts caliber, stock designs, barrel length, etc. Although not certain, I recall from my past efforts trying to import my personal firearms that a single purchase of multiple guns is allowed; check with the authorized dealer.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

I don't fear a vendetta. 

No good deed goes unpunished and 8 brand new bicycles just appeared in a very poor part of Mexico due to our toy drive. One of the recipient's parents told us, "A taxi driver was killed for his car last week here. You need to be careful, everyone knows who you are now."

This is Veracruz, Zeta territory and kidnappings are common in this state, not necessarily in our area, but a lot of bones were dug up in the cane fields less than eight miles from our home and this was cartel activity.

We love and trust our neighbors but people do talk and the perception of the ability to buy eight new bikes says "money" to some. These bikes were bought with donations from Facebook and Gofundme but that doesn't matter, if the wrong person hears of this we may have just inadvertently made ourselves a target.

There are no street names or house numbers out here in the country so a call to the police would be futile. Should someone breach the gate and go to work yanking the burglar bars off the door with a vehicle and a chain and I have a shotgun, at least I will die on my feet, not on my knees, vendetta be damned.

But if there are only 3 or 4 of them and I have a shotgun, I very well may be able to protect my wife and myself. I'd rather be armed in either case.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Ah, I love Mexico, the land of Macho Men...""I don't fear a vendetta."" would be a great line on a tombstone...


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

chicois8 said:


> Ah, I love Mexico, the land of Macho Men...""I don't fear a vendetta."" would be a great line on a tombstone...


To each his or her own, I prefer to have the ability to defend my wife, my home and myself than to be a defenseless, quivering coward should something happen. If I feared a vendetta I wouldn't be buying a gun, I don't hunt rabbits anymore.

And I'm from Texas, not Mexico, where most people have guns for home defense. Kidnappings are common in Mexico and I wouldn't hesitate to use deadly force to protect my wife and my home should the need arise. 

This is not being over dramatic, just realistic, I don't live in a gated expat community with security guards as a lot do here. We are on our own out here and my wife depends on me to protect her should the need arise. When a local tells you "You need to be careful, everyone knows who you are now." it's best to heed that advice, they know the area.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

" When a local tells you "You need to be careful, everyone knows who you are now." it's best to heed that advice, they know the area.""

So that means go out and buy a shotgun?


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

yes , I would not live in the country for that exact reason.. unless you live amongst people you can totally trust.. you need to be aware of the surrounding and having a middle class house in a very poor area attracts attention.
People get kill for cell phones and for a lot less than a washing machine or a flushing toilet...People also get kidnapped if they are thought to have money .. If you have a gun the cleaning lady will know and everyone around will know, there are no secrets.. so chances are that if they want to get you they will get you some other way..
We do not live in a gated community but we have plenty of neighbors and in Chiapas where the neighbors come out to chase or help whomever screams for help but if you are in the country it is a different matter and you need to pull the machete as you are on your own,


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

chicois8 said:


> " When a local tells you "You need to be careful, everyone knows who you are now." it's best to heed that advice, they know the area.""
> 
> So that means go out and buy a shotgun?


It's the bicycles we just gave...

"Hey, where did you get those all of those new bikes?"

"The Americans who live over that hill."

"They must have a lot of money, my cousin Enrique would be interested in this."

As I said, our neighbors are honest but this is the harvest of the cane and people are coming from the city for the work in the fields right now. We see a lot of new faces this time of year and they notice eight new bicycles or a brand new truck out here. 

Living anywhere in Mexico calls for more caution than my hometown in Texas but the Zeta's rule Veracruz and kidnapping is very common in Mexico, to deny that is just that, denial.

Being an American in a remote area of Veracruz, to me it just makes sense to be able to defend yourself. We already planned on this well before we ever got the idea of a fundraiser or getting the bicycles but now we possibly drew attention to ourselves. 

I will err on the side of caution, there is a vast difference between fear and preparation. We have no protection out here other than what we ourselves can provide as I said, we don't even have an address to call the cops to.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I sure would not call the cops anyways.. For a few years in our barrio in San Cristobal the cops would only be called by the president of the barrio.. They were told not to show up unless the president of the barrio called them. The thieves were caught by the people of the barrio and held until the president of the barrio call the cops.. The old ladies were fierce and had some of those thieves cry out in fear.. Now the cops are allowed but that does not make me feel more secure. The security is the beighbors not the cops.
Bicycles are valuable commodities...A few years ago, there was a kid in the colonia de la Hormiga that stole bikes, the neighbors caught him and burned him alive.. no more bike thieves in that area. 

The problem with a gun is that if you kill someone then you have to leave the area and if you have a house in the middle of nowhere in a poor area , you probably lost that too..

Do not kid yourself, outsiders are always blamed for committing whatever.. There ae lots of assaults on some of the roads in Chiapas and outsiders are always blamed but when they get the guys they are usually locals or related to locals..


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

I'll begin by saying I'm not an NRA fan and don't think most people need to have a gun, most especially families with small children or adults who get violent tendencies when inebriated. Too many tragedies happen. On the other hand, in reading this thread, I find myself seeing value in all the points of view expressed.

Robbery is not uncommon in Mexico, and sometimes it proves to be fatal to either the criminal or the homeowner, depending entirely on the circumstances. An ex-marine on my street was unloading groceries in his garage when accosted by some gangbanger-type teens and was foolish enough to attempt to defend himself rather than hand over his wallet. They shot him, fatally. I have a friend with a coin collection. He has a gun but has been robbed four times when away from the house. Someone obviously made a point of watching him.

I once lived out in the country in the U.S., down a long, long driveway. It was dark. I was home alone at the time, and when I saw lights coming that I knew weren't family, I got the resident rifle and sat in plain sight from the large window and went about loading that rifle. The vehicle turned around and left. Plus point for having the gun. 

After that, many years and changes resulted in living here in Mexico and having no guns in the family. However, we are probably the most low key expats in the neighborhood with no signs of wealth visible to the house cleaners or anyone else. If I were in Zorro's shoes, I'd probably think the guns would be a wise idea. Home protection makes sense.

A vendetta is a whole different matter. Nobody wins that one.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

citlali said:


> I sure would not call the cops anyways.. For a few years in our barrio in San Cristobal the cops would only be called by the president of the barrio.. They were told not to show up unless the president of the barrio called them. The thieves were caught by the people of the barrio and held until the president of the barrio call the cops.. The old ladies were fierce and had some of those thieves cry out in fear.. Now the cops are allowed but that does not make me feel more secure. The security is the beighbors not the cops.
> Bicycles are valuable commodities...A few years ago, there was a kid in the colonia de la Hormiga that stole bikes, the neighbors caught him and burned him alive.. no more bike thieves in that area.
> 
> The problem with a gun is that if you kill someone then you have to leave the area and if you have a house in the middle of nowhere in a poor area , you probably lost that too..
> ...


Mexico doesn't have a "Stand your ground" law like America does but from what we have read if apparent signs of forced entry are present judges almost always side with the residents. Just like the states if they force the gate and you kill them in your yard you will be in serious trouble.

My wife being a natural born Mexican citizen helps in the respect that we aren't exactly "foreigners" in the eyes of a judge but honest senior citizens in the case of this happening. I'd rather take my chances with a judge than not have the option of defending my wife and myself.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

well it all depends on the ID of the criminal not yours.. , if some nobody gets killed it is likely to be ok , if you kill someone with connections, whatever the connection you are toast..and then you can always go to the US consulate and ask help from them.. 
Then you also have to worry about the family, I sure would not want to live in a village where I killed someone´s relative..


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

""Mexico doesn't have a "Stand your ground" law like America does"""
Then what is a Mexican Standoff, maybe TX got the idea from Mexico since it used to be part of Mexico.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

chicois8 said:


> ""Mexico doesn't have a "Stand your ground" law like America does"""
> Then what is a Mexican Standoff, maybe TX got the idea from Mexico since it used to be part of Mexico.


Here you go:
"Mexican standoff - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_standoff

A Mexican standoff is a confrontation amongst two or more parties in which no strategy exists that allows any party to achieve victory. As a result, all participants need to maintain the strategic tension, which remains unresolved until some outside event makes it possible to resolve it. "

Maybe that's when the armed owner greets the armed robber who breaks in.


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## LMtortugas (Aug 23, 2013)

Zorro2017 said:


> But if there are only 3 or 4 of them and I have a shotgun, I very well may be able to protect my wife and myself. I'd rather be armed in either case.


In Sinaloa, where we reside, the state is identified regularly – and justifiably - with historic high rates of intentional homicide/murder as well as comparable rates of property crime with other states. But violent offenses against innocent folk, i.e. home invasions, assault, and other related physical crimes are not that common, or apparently not of much concern as seldom reported or mentioned. 

Is such crime against innocent parties that prevalent in Veracruz??? NOB I’ve owned over time a cache of firearms but have mostly decided to abandon any concerted effort to import weapons into Sinaloa as assessed risk simply doesn’t warrant the hassle; I’ve yet to recognize any real threat & need for home protection beyond common sense measures.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

In the US, stand your ground is a complicated subject. It's not quite accurate to say the US has a stand your ground law, because the laws vary by state. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

I have no idea about Mexican laws on lethal self defense. 

As for Mexican standoffs, here's the ultimate definition:


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

eastwind said:


> In the US, stand your ground is a complicated subject. It's not quite accurate to say the US has a stand your ground law, because the laws vary by state.


Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah and 
West Virginia all have "Stand your ground" laws in place. That means that you have no duty to retreat from the situation before resorting to deadly force; not limited to your property.

The "Castle doctrine" says that if someone has invaded your home, and you fear great bodily harm or death, then yes, the law will generally protect you if you shoot an intruder. Outside of those very specific circumstances, however, the question is a bit too complicated to provide a black and white answer, especially when you consider the different laws relating to self-defense among the states.

The Supreme Court has ruled that life, even that of a criminal is more valuable than property, so if you shoot someone who is running out of your home with the jewelry box you can be convicted of murder or sued for damages if the part lives.

Still, even without these standing laws I feel that most people who shoot and kill an intruder in their home will not be held liable. Of course there are states that have insane laws about guns, but most reasonable states would not convict a person for such an act.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

LMtortugas said:


> In Sinaloa, where we reside, the state is identified regularly – and justifiably - with historic high rates of intentional homicide/murder as well as comparable rates of property crime with other states. But violent offenses against innocent folk, i.e. home invasions, assault, and other related physical crimes are not that common, or apparently not of much concern as seldom reported or mentioned.
> 
> Is such crime against innocent parties that prevalent in Veracruz??? NOB I’ve owned over time a cache of firearms but have mostly decided to abandon any concerted effort to import weapons into Sinaloa as assessed risk simply doesn’t warrant the hassle; I’ve yet to recognize any real threat & need for home protection beyond common sense measures.


I have never heard of a crime in my village but then again, the people here have nothing to steal or be kidnapped for. Kidnapping is common all over Mexico_ if they think they can get money from your family._

In our area, we would be the only such targets so to me it just makes sense to be prepared. As I said, we planned on buying a gun long ago.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

citlali said:


> well it all depends on the ID of the criminal not yours.. , if some nobody gets killed it is likely to be ok , if you kill someone with connections, whatever the connection you are toast..and then you can always go to the US consulate and ask help from them..
> 
> Then you also have to worry about the family, I sure would not want to live in a village where I killed someone´s relative..


No one in our village would do such a thing, they are all honest, hard working farmers who believe it or not, like us, especially after this Christmas. It is not beyond imagination though that people from out of our village, from the city who are here harvesting the cane now might not be so honest. They see a nice house, a new truck, you just never know and this is Veracruz. 

The alternative is to sit in our home and be unarmed_ if_ something were to happen. To me it just makes sense to be prepared to defend my wife, myself and our home but this is the common mindset of most people in Texas.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I can see defending your wife but your home?? Your posession are worth more than a life to you? Have fun convincing a judge of that..


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

citlali said:


> I can see defending your wife but your home?? Your posession are worth more than a life to you? Have fun convincing a judge of that..


I won't ask what they are there for if they break in, my wife, my life or my possessions.

As I said, judges in Mexico generally rule for the homeowner if there are signs of forcible entry, I have researched this. *That is exactly why they sell guns in Mexico*, you can't have them outside of your home so even hunting can get you in big trouble. Guns are sold for self defense in Mexico, you have 72 hours to get them home.

Why else would a person buy a gun in Mexico? To look at it?

You can find many answers such as this..

Enrique Camarena Domínguez, B.A. Law, Ibero-American University
Answered Mar 31
In most Mexican states there is a right to legitimate defense but there is no definition of it, (Law abhors definitions), so there is no “stand your ground” or “duty to retreat” doctrine to follow.

Now, generally speaking, if a killing happens inside the abode of the killer and he claims legitimate defense, prosecutors and judges will err on the side of “stand for ground”, but they will require some elements to be proven, like a breaking and entering.

On the other side, if a killing happens outside, on a public space (the street, a park, etc.) they will lean towards a “duty to retreat” position, but they will consider other factors, such as if the killed person was armed with a firearm it might be unreasonable to demand a retreat, you can be shot in the back, or if the killer was in a car stuck in traffic retreat or escape is impossible.

A killing that happens during a fight is almost never considered legitimate defense.

And this...

In a real life situation what this means is that you can only use force against a intruder for example if he has the intent to commit an aggression and harm you. The key word here is intent. In Mexico, you have to prove that the aggressor had the intent (he was actually jumping at you, firing at you, throwing you knives or strangling you) so you can claim self defense. 

So, he was jumping at me. 

In either case, a man and a woman in their 60's who legally own a gun and their house is broken into at night and they defend themselves, I'm pretty confident a judge would rule in our favor. Our house has a wall and burglar bars so if they are inside they tried pretty hard.



https://www.quora.com/Do-states-in-Mexico-have-stand-your-ground”-laws


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Must be nice to be so sure of what would happen in this case because Mexican jails are pretty ugly.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Location: Central Highlands, Misty Mountains........

Misty Mountains, great name for an exotic dancer,LOL


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## 4Lionsnbaja (Nov 12, 2017)

You can purchase more than one gun, however to purchase any long gun, rifle or shotgun, your wife will need to be an active member of a gun club.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

chicois8 said:


> Location: Central Highlands, Misty Mountains........
> 
> Misty Mountains, great name for an exotic dancer,LOL


Or a novel written by Tolkien, or a Led Zepplin tune.

Keep up the personal insults please.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

4Lionsnbaja said:


> You can purchase more than one gun, however to purchase any long gun, rifle or shotgun, your wife will need to be an active member of a gun club.


I didn't see that anywhere in the laws but if that is the case we will just get an automatic pistol.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

citlali said:


> Must be nice to be so sure of what would happen in this case because Mexican jails are pretty ugly.


Not as ugly as staring down the barrel of a gun without having one, could it be that you are just anti gun?

So tell me, if someone were to break into your home knowing that you are inside, what is a good alternative?


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Zorro2017 said:


> Or a novel written by Tolkien, or a Led Zepplin tune.
> 
> Keep up the personal insults please.



No personal insult, you see the LOL kinda means it is a joke, don't be so thin skinned ...


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Cujo?


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## Jim from Alaska (Feb 20, 2017)

Zorro2017 said:


> Or a novel written by Tolkien, or a Led Zepplin tune.


Led Zeppelin is the first thing that comes to my mind :rockon::rockon::rockon:. 

But this is all very interesting and is a very sharp double edge sword because I grew up at a very young age with guns, guns have always been within an arms reach for me. I'm not a NRA supporter but I do support the thought of 'there is nothing inside worth dying over' and therefor I understand 100% Zorro's idea of wanting to protect family and whats 'inside' my home. Colorado has the 'Make my Day' law and you had better feel your or a family member's life is in danger while an intruder is inside your home before shooting.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

There is no alternative.. but when local people told me to be careful when we were looking for my housesitter son and had her family over in our house, getting a gun was not what my reaction was.. I knew the way the man had been kidnapped a local kids working with the local cartel were involved and I knew if they wanted to get me they would.. so I just kept living the way I always did and I was lucky and nothing happened.. 
If they come to rob me they can have whatever they want, I would not fight them , if they come to kill which most of them do not do then they will kill me. I got an alarm so I would be awake when they came but that is it.. 

I had guns when I was younger and lived in a bayou in Alabama, most people there had guns.. I know how to use a shot gun and practiced with a 38 but now at my age. We sold them when we moved to Mexico. 
Although we could get a gun here, we cannot be bothered and frankly I do not think it would make much difference if someone really wanted to get me.

I would be more afraid of kidnapping but they usually get you on the way to somewhere, they do not come to our house for that.


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## 4Lionsnbaja (Nov 12, 2017)

Zorro2017 said:


> I didn't see that anywhere in the laws but if that is the case we will just get an automatic pistol.


Has your wife done the due process and been preauthorized for the purchase of a handgun?


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

and she better practice because shooting a hand gun is not what it appears to be in the movies and it is pretty easy to miss if you are not used to the gun..


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Zorro2017 said:


> I didn't see that anywhere in the laws but if that is the case we will just get an automatic pistol.


I presume you mean semi-automatic. A fully automatic pistol would be illegal even under the US's liberal gun laws.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

To be honest - I'm not sure I have the right temperament to have a gun in the house. In Mexico I have had run-ins with two different neighbors which I resolved by driving the car into their driveway and honking the horn - in the early morning hours. 

I also worry that I might shoot my wife by accident.

We almost never allow anyone in the house we do not know - or who is not referred by someone we know - but some Mexican friends have warned us about flaunting a weapon to the wrong people (as in hanging a shotgun over the front door). It might become a target for theft (or worse).


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

citlali said:


> Zorro.. So you understand how it works.. when you become a Mexican Citizen you are asked to give up your other nationality when living in Mexico .. which means that you cannot use the US consulate and you can lose your Mexican nationality if you claim you are a US Citizen.. outside of Mexico you can be wharever you chose. In Mexico someone who is naturalized is Mexican period no point bringing up other nationality. Ther are restrictions on what you can do but owning a gun is not one of them.
> You cannot become president and I think the other one is that you cannot pilot a ship or an airplane.. otherwise eyou have the same exact rights as the other Mexicans. You can run for office as well..
> 
> The giving up the original citizenship is only when in Mexico and they do not require that you give up your citizenship officially to your country of orgin So you are only a dual citizen outside of Mexico...or you can look at it as you are a dual citizenship who can lose his Mexican citizenship if you claim being a US citizen to the Mexican authorities


"You cannot become president and I think the other one is that you cannot pilot a ship or an airplane"

First one makes sense but does not "allowed to become a pilot" mean commercial only? 

Seems strange that a naturalized Mexican couldn't get a private plane pilot's license, but if that's what Mexican law states, that's the law.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

I would think it would be a military thing but I do not know I signed off on it without asking because it did not concern me same with the ship or the president.
It did not make sense to me either but since I did not plan to do any of these things I did not ask.. one of the rare things I am not curious about.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

citlali said:


> and she better practice because shooting a hand gun is not what it appears to be in the movies and it is pretty easy to miss if you are not used to the gun..


You're 100% right on this. That's why I question the decision not to buy a shotgun just because it means joining a gun club. Constant practice is necessary to remain competent with a pistol, so she'd have to join a gun club for practice anyway, right?

I lived in Virginia for 25 years and was able to practice legally often. Still, never found out, thankfully, how I'd react to facing a home invader. From what I read, most inexperienced people forget their lessons, start breathing hard, usually close their eyes and pistols jump upward.

Of course, you know, unlike in movies, hard to hit anything accurately with pistol from more than 10-15 feet away.

Therefore, I'd suggest investigating gun clubs since practice necessary, and a shotgun for purely unexpected home defense needs, if only one firearm allowed. First, having a shotgun aimed at you is terrorizing. Back in 20th century, used to be a fun practice in Maine for people to explore abandoned houses (Hey, it's Maine. Not much to do away from coast). I went to college there and we (another couple, my girl friend and me) did like to explore. Never trashing, just exploring abandoned houses, which were quite common in interior with loss of manufacturing jobs.

Well, of course, one time we entered an unabandoned house and the guy walked out of a room with a double-barreled pointed right at us. Fortunately, he had more sense than we, and let us back out, babbling our apologies. But I remember those two big black holes to this day. Instantly froze all four of us.

Second reason, of course, in close up home invasion scenario, much greater chance for inexperienced person of hitting target with shotgun (and naturally spend extra money to get a semi-automatic, self-loading multi-shot one, if sold in Mexico).


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

Jim from Alaska said:


> I understand 100% Zorro's idea of wanting to protect family and whats 'inside' my home. Colorado has the 'Make my Day' law and you had better feel your or a family member's life is in danger while an intruder is inside your home before shooting.


There's an old saying, "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six." In this case it would be a judge but I feel the same way.

As long as the entry wound is in the front you are usually safe as dead men tell no tales and it's hard for anyone to prove he wasn't advancing on you telling you that her was going to kill you. The way I see it, if someone breaks into my house, the time for talking or asking intentions is over.



citlali said:


> There is no alternative.. but when local people told me to be careful when we were looking for my housesitter son and had her family over in our house, getting a gun was not what my reaction was.


Yes, I know there is no alternative but as I said, living so remote we made this decision long ago.

We aren't looking for a housekeeper, we are just considering the possibilities of someone trying to impose their will on us.



4Lionsnbaja said:


> Has your wife done the due process and been preauthorized for the purchase of a handgun?


No, but we understand the process and have time.



citlali said:


> and she better practice because shooting a hand gun is not what it appears to be in the movies and it is pretty easy to miss if you are not used to the gun..


You only get two boxes of shells, I'd be doing the shooting and I'm a good shot.



TundraGreen said:


> I presume you mean semi-automatic. A fully automatic pistol would be illegal even under the US's liberal gun laws.


Yes, semi-automatic, but what I understood from the law is that if you live in the city you are limited to a handgun, in the country you can have a shotgun or rifle, I'd opt for a shotgun.




lat19n said:


> We almost never allow anyone in the house we do not know - or who is not referred by someone we know - but some Mexican friends have warned us about flaunting a weapon to the wrong people (as in hanging a shotgun over the front door). It might become a target for theft (or worse).


There would be no flaunting of weapons.



Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> You're 100% right on this. That's why I question the decision not to buy a shotgun just because it means joining a gun club. Constant practice is necessary to remain competent with a pistol, so she'd have to join a gun club for practice anyway, right?



Again, I think this was a misinterpretation of the law, I didn't see anything about being a member of a gun club. Have you seen any shooting ranges here? 

The law reads that if you live in a rural area you can purchase a rifle or a shotgun, no military calibers are allowed.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

So you will be doing the shooting assuming you will be there when someone breaks in, I guess your wife is never alone in the house? 
So you the guy in charge out to protect the family and if you are not there the family is out of luck..Great planning..


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

citlali said:


> So you will be doing the shooting assuming you will be there when someone breaks in, I guess your wife is never alone in the house?
> So you the guy in charge out to protect the family and if you are not there the family is out of luck..Great planning..


My wife is very rarely home alone and never at night when this would more than likely happen. There are houses within sight so going over the wall in the daylight is not likely. If we are able to get a shotgun she will learn to use it with no problem.


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## LMtortugas (Aug 23, 2013)

Zorro2017 said:


> There's an old saying, "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six."


ZORRO, I really like that slogan! But…..

Having spent much of my childhood upon the familia north Texas cattle ranch I was functional with firearms long before reading a textbook. However, such credentials hardly empower one responsibly to repel with weapons and live ammo 4-5 house intruders….. or a sobrino borracho.

Sadly NOB each year thousands of innocent people kill other innocent people, or themselves, mishandling firearms and NOT under the duress of home invasion. In my insignificant opinion, 4-5 deliberate armed intruders knowing a house is occupied have a very defined purpose for their assault…and it isn’t to steal a couple big screen TVs or a laptop. The 2 folks in Sinaloa I personally knew now dead from 9mms both engaged & meddled in very “high risk” endeavors that carried equally high mortality rates.

If one chooses armed guard and protection, then all household members should be very well-versed in the weapon's function, maintenance, regular use/practice, and all safety measures. _That all said,_ my preference for home security is the short-barreled 12 gauge pump.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

LMtortugas said:


> ZORRO, I really like that slogan! But…..
> 
> Having spent much of my childhood upon the familia north Texas cattle ranch I was functional with firearms long before reading a textbook. However, such credentials hardly empower one responsibly to repel with weapons and live ammo 4-5 house intruders….. or a sobrino borracho.
> 
> ...


Short barrel shotguns are illegal in Mexico.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

LMtortugas said:


> ZORRO, I really like that slogan! But…..
> 
> Having spent much of my childhood upon the familia north Texas cattle ranch I was functional with firearms long before reading a textbook. However, such credentials hardly empower one responsibly to repel with weapons and live ammo 4-5 house intruders….. or a sobrino borracho.
> 
> ...


My house has a strategic layout that was not intentional. No matter which door you open I have cover in my hallway. There is no shot from the windows to the interior once I'm in the hall, our small dog has incredible hearing and makes for a great alarm. Our security lights are inside of the wall, sure a BB gun could take them out but my wall is topped with a Fi Shock electric fence wires that will get a bull off of the fence for 10 miles.

Sure, 4 -5 armed intruders would probably spell the end, but if there are say two and the second one hears a shotgun blast and sees the top of the first ones head disappear, he will think petty hard about making an entry.

In any case, an armed homeowner is a lot safer than an unarmed one. I wasn't afraid in Texas but kept a loaded gun, times are changing and not for the better.

I'm pretty sure we can purchase a shotgun and an extended tube looks like an ordinary piece of steel tubing, nothing about it says "gun" once out of the package, if extended tubes are not sold here.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

That is one of the sadest post I have read in a long time.. Why not move into an armed camp and shoot at anything that comes near you? I think you are watching too much tv and should get out more and breath the fresh air rather than defend yourself against your own shadow..


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

We have 24X7 'unarmed' security. Some of the people are better than others. There have been times when we have pulled up to the gate and had to wait 5 minutes or so for them to open it.

A while back - on a Friday night - a car load of armed people with an out of state tag attempted to storm the main gate around midnight. They were very unlucky because at that very moment 'Mr Mafioso' (a very wealthy neighbor) and his entourage of 3 armed vehicles were returning home and they shut the attack down until the police arrived.

I installed my own home security system. An Ademco Vista 20P. Most of it is wireless. Very easy to install. Normally we don't even have it set to alarm - it simply issues a 'ding-ding-ding' whenever a monitored opening is triggered. It also tells us if all the openings are closed - pretty useful. I have lots of add-ons I've never gotten around to installing - like an auto dial feature which will call any two numbers and play a pre-canned message. We do have a VERY powerful siren that would wake people for miles.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

Meritorious-MasoMenos said:


> "You cannot become president and I think the other one is that you cannot pilot a ship or an airplane"
> 
> First one makes sense but does not "allowed to become a pilot" mean commercial only?
> 
> Seems strange that a naturalized Mexican couldn't get a private plane pilot's license, but if that's what Mexican law states, that's the law.


Right - you are not allowed to pilot a plane or captain a vessel for hire. Kind of preserves the jobs for Mexicans. I have seen Americans 'taking the helm' of a vessel - but there has always been a Mexican captain on-board.


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## 4Lionsnbaja (Nov 12, 2017)

Zorro2017 said:


> You only get two boxes of shells, I'd be doing the shooting and I'm a good shot.
> 
> 
> The law reads that if you live in a rural area you can purchase a rifle or a shotgun, no military calibers are allowed.


You can purchase up to 200 rounds, .380 boxes are 50rds per so thats 4 boxes.

If you own rural land, and are a EJIDATARIO you can purchase a rifle or shotgun and carry it with you in the rural area. That being said, what the laws reads is one thing and the way its carried out is a whole other. Caveat Emptor


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

I don't disagree with those who feel more comfortable with a gun in the house. There are downsides to having weapons around, however. We read about them in the news only too often.

For instance, there's the people who could be having a top level disagreement with another member of the household or even an invited guest. It could be a rebelling teen or a angry spouse. It might even come to blows, but with a gun available, it's often fatal. Then, there's the accidental disasters involving little kids.

No perfect answers here.


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## 4Lionsnbaja (Nov 12, 2017)

citlali said:


> That is one of the sadest post I have read in a long time.. Why not move into an armed camp and shoot at anything that comes near you? I think you are watching too much tv and should get out more and breath the fresh air rather than defend yourself against your own shadow..



I agree to the point were if you're buying a handgun out of fear, cause you feel you need it, then somethings wrong with your neighborhood. You either need to move out or buy a dog or an alarm. A firearm is and should always be your last line of defense.

However for others, my case, its a way of life. I was born and raised on a farm and always around firearms. For us on the farm, handguns, rifles, shotguns were just another implement for different purposes. Recreation sport, competition, hunting and of course defense.


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## 4Lionsnbaja (Nov 12, 2017)

lagoloo said:


> No perfect answers here.


Yup, this has all the makings of a Controversial topic.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

When the OP says he wants a gun because the locals told him that people knew who he was or something like that , it is not part of every day life in the country. I am not anti gun but at this stage in my life I would not live in a place where I felt I needed a gun for protection. I have lives in such places and we had guns but for now no thanks m I left that behind in the US and have no desire to think that way any longer.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

citlali said:


> That is one of the sadest post I have read in a long time.. Why not move into an armed camp and shoot at anything that comes near you? I think you are watching too much tv and should get out more and breath the fresh air rather than defend yourself against your own shadow..


Opinions vary. We are currently in Puerto Vallarta at my son in law's condo. It has a wall and a gate around it. You pull up to the gate and there is a stanchion, it has a compartment in which to place your ID. You then face the camera and a photo is taken of you and your ID. Once they see that they match, they then verify that you are expected before they open the gate then look in your car before you are admitted, they don't search but they do look. You then proceed to the second gate and pass through it. Security patrols the place night and day, we just happened to walk to the store at night and when we returned a guard was talking on his radio about our truck, the tire wasn't quite past the white line.

And this is in an exclusive area occupied by expats and well to do Mexicans.

We drove here and if you undertake a trip like this you had better be aware of what you are doing.

You like slinging insults around like I'm watching too much TV and should get out more, defending myself against my own shadow and so on when in reality you don't seem to grasp the reality of what is going on in Mexico right now as far as crime goes. 

There is a section of highway called "The highway of death" It used to be Highway 101 which connects Matamoros, Tamaulipas, to Mexican Federal Highway 80 in San Luis Potosí. It passes through Ciudad Victoria, the capital of Tamaulipas, and Tula. My wife and I accidentally wound up on it when we took a wrong turn several years ago and traveled it at night.

The new "highway of death" is now linking Mexico City to the Arco Norte. Construction backs traffic up for miles and armed men go from car to car taking wallets, purses and cell phones as they can simply disappear if the police are even able to get to you in this traffic jam. I suggest that people do a search on that before making a road trip.

I keep my cards, ID and money in my sock when on a long trip. I have an old throw down wallet stuffed with those fake credit cards they send in the mail and expired credit cards, I put about 600 pesos in it and two old cell phones that I don't use any more as a very common tactic is to pull up next to you on a motorcycle with a gun and demand your money and phone, then speed off.

This isn't 1993, when I first began traveling Mexico any more. You can't go off on a road trip of 1,200 kilometers as we just did with your head up your rear. You no longer just get out the map book and plan your route without doing some research.

As far as being armed at home, gun sales have spiked 60% in the past five years in Mexico. Mexico's only gun store sold 40 weapons a day last year so obviously I'm not alone in my beliefs.

As has been said, it isn't Kansas.

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/firearms-sales-spike-over-security-worries/


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

4Lionsnbaja said:


> You can purchase up to 200 rounds, .380 boxes are 50rds per so thats 4 boxes.


That's good to know. I'll bust off a few rounds when we get the shotgun to see if any of the locals even call the police. The sounds bounce off of the mountains here, I kept hearing a piece of large equipment with a backup alarm in front of our house. I went outside to try to determine about where it was.

Later when we went to the store I discovered that it was in fact, behind our land.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

4Lionsnbaja said:


> I agree to the point were if you're buying a handgun out of fear, cause you feel you need it, then somethings wrong with your neighborhood.


Again, there is a vast difference between fear and preparation, just like I covered earlier on road trips. 

As my critic here said, "Great plan", it's better than no plan and if someone decides to break in here, that is not the time to decide to go out and buy some self defense, especially when it is legal.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

4Lionsnbaja said:


> Yup, this has all the makings of a Controversial topic.


Only because some can't keep a civil tongue in their head during a normal conversation. Insults are common when a person runs out of logic, as in all of the controversial topics.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

citlali said:


> I would not live in a place where I felt I needed a gun for protection.


Welcome to Mexico and as you said in another thread, welcome to the 21st. century.


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