# Introducing Ourselves



## Larry and Arlene

Hi All-

We are brand new to the forum. We have been retired for a while and share the all too common experienced of living in a lovely southern California home just east of San Diego that we can no longer afford. We could afford it comfortably a while back but not since some folks helped our retirement nest-egg loose a chunk of its value.

We have traveled in Italy and love it. We are very comfortable among the people and the culture. We are committed to sell this property, while we still have anything left of our depleted equity, and moving to Italy. We are focusing on Abruzzo although it is one of the few areas we have never been.

The bureaucratic tangle of getting the Elective Residence Visa with regard to a "suitable address" seems a nightmare. We could eventually consider buying but we need to see where we are after our home sells and we want to be very careful on how we commit what is left of our financial resources. It seems many things in the complex Italian bureaucracy have work-arounds. But we haven't found the one for this issue as yet.

Our timetable is to go on the market spring of 2013 and then refine the timing around when the property will close in this very unhealthy real estate market.

We are also looking for info on getting the Elective Residence Visa processing through the Italian Consulate in Los Angeles. We grasp the importance of having all the paperwork in order, but once it is past the hurdle of the Consulate accepting it, how much lead time should we allow?

Again, we are delighted to find this resource and hope to be able to contribute.

Larry and Arlene


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## sheilamarsco

hi there, hope all goes well for you there are many americans moving over permanently to abruzzo which is a beautiful area. best advice is to come over and rent for a while so that you get a feel for the different parts of a large region. there are several knowledgeable people who have moved as you are planning to do who live near me and i know would be delighted to give you help and advice. if you would like more information you can pm me. best wishes sheila


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## MaidenScotland

sheilamarsco said:


> hi there, hope all goes well for you there are many americans moving over permanently to abruzzo which is a beautiful area. best advice is to come over and rent for a while so that you get a feel for the different parts of a large region. there are several knowledgeable people who have moved as you are planning to do who live near me and i know would be delighted to give you help and advice best wishes sheila



Please do ask and answer questions on the forum, this keeps the page live and shares knowledge

Maiden,


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## Larry and Arlene

*"Suitable Address Issue"*



sheilamarsco said:


> hi there, hope all goes well for you there are many americans moving over permanently to abruzzo which is a beautiful area. best advice is to come over and rent for a while so that you get a feel for the different parts of a large region. there are several knowledgeable people who have moved as you are planning to do who live near me and i know would be delighted to give you help and advice. if you would like more information you can pm me. best wishes sheila


Hi Sheila. Thank you for the kind best wishes. We are very excited and looking forward to this expansion of our lives. We are looking at the process of getting the "Elective Residence Visa." It appears we need a "suitable address" to list at the time we apply for the visa here in the US. Your advice is very sound and is very much what we have concluded - rent for awhile and then decide what to do.
Without making a prior trip over (expensive from San Diego) how do we find a rental for 3 months or so that will agree to permit the address to be used as a residence for the visa purposes?
We plan to put our home here on the market next spring and then, who knows, we might have matters wrapped up and be ready for the move sometime by late summer or early autumn. We are really pulling up stakes and leaving only a few items in storage for now. This has become our ideal of how to spend what is left of our time together in retirement. We have all the commitment to moving to Abruzzo of religious conversion. Thanks again for the warm response. Larry & Arlene


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## pudd 2

i to live in abruzzo pretoro a pretty mountane town 20 mins from beech 15 mins from ski resort beet that if you can allso if you need any help we are here , i could menshion another forum dedicated to abruzzo by people who live here but i will get censerd iam absoluty sure of it


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## MaidenScotland

pudd 2 said:


> i to live in abruzzo pretoro a pretty mountane town 20 mins from beech 15 mins from ski resort beet that if you can allso if you need any help we are here , i could menshion another forum dedicated to abruzzo by people who live here but i will get censerd iam absoluty sure of it




Yes it will be...

Why not start a an Abruzzo thread on this forum?


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## pudd 2

MaidenScotland said:


> Yes it will be...
> 
> Why not start a an Abruzzo thread on this forum?


ok you win but at least you gave me a smile this time . ok how do you start a thread for all those who live in abruzzo all those who want to or those who just love the place


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## sheilamarsco

like pudd2 i would love to give this couple the information they need but it would entail email addresses and the website of another forum so it would be immediately deleted!!! all i can say to them is to pm me and i will be able to give them the detailed information they require.


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## MaggieBuchardt

I found that Abruzzo forum myself and they have lots of information there, pretty useful for wannaby-Italy-semi-expats like ourselves. That said, I am not even one step closer to decide where to go. I find some place and then we look at information and we say- "this is it". Then in 3 minutes I find something else and...well, I guess most of you know how it is The town of Lanciano stands up a bit, but can't find much information about rental options- we need a studio or a 1BR apartment, furnished, kitchen installed. Also-I've been reading that along the Adriatic coast there are big groups of Albanians and Africans, that make problems, don't obey the law, etc... I take that with a pinch of salt, because I don't like putting labels on people and whole nations, but- shall we expect problems? Also- is it true, that towns in the south are dirty? Unfortunately, we are only familiar with Northern Italy and all the information we gather is confusing...

So...anybody living in, or around Lanciano? All the information would be highly appreciated and I sure hope that one day I'll be able to help others as well.


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## MaidenScotland

sheilamarsco said:


> like pudd2 i would love to give this couple the information they need but it would entail email addresses and the website of another forum so it would be immediately deleted!!! all i can say to them is to pm me and i will be able to give them the detailed information they require.




Why not share what you know on this forum, sending pms just limits your knowledge to one person..


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## MaggieBuchardt

I can share which the other forum is, but isn't it against the rules? If not-will gladly share that information.


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## pudd 2

MaggieBuchardt said:


> I found that Abruzzo forum myself and they have lots of information there, pretty useful for wannaby-Italy-semi-expats like ourselves. That said, I am not even one step closer to decide where to go. I find some place and then we look at information and we say- "this is it". Then in 3 minutes I find something else and...well, I guess most of you know how it is The town of Lanciano stands up a bit, but can't find much information about rental options- we need a studio or a 1BR apartment, furnished, kitchen installed. Also-I've been reading that along the Adriatic coast there are big groups of Albanians and Africans, that make problems, don't obey the law, etc... I take that with a pinch of salt, because I don't like putting labels on people and whole nations, but- shall we expect problems? Also- is it true, that towns in the south are dirty? Unfortunately, we are only familiar with Northern Italy and all the information we gather is confusing...
> 
> So...anybody living in, or around Lanciano? All the information would be highly appreciated and I sure hope that one day I'll be able to help others as well.


hi lanciano is an old relicios center and quet a a congested town if you like trafic its ok . as for the towns in the south being dirty i find this ofencive tosh put about by the northen italians abruzzo is the green heart of italy with national parks and mountaines to die for , as for the albanase and other nats there are less here as there is not the money and turism as for romanei our neghbers are romanion and are the nicest hard working people i know . people especialy the italians seem to puy every boddy in a group good or bad . as for the black people who work the car parks they are inteligent nice helpful people and most come from nigira and speek good english . ther are good and bad in all races


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## MaggieBuchardt

I am not surprised by the truth...I thought this might be the case, people exaggerating. I know how it is to be labeled- I am from Bulgaria and have heard many horrible things about my country and Bulgarians- most of them not truth. I don't mind living in a community with nations from all over the world- after all, have been living in New York for 7 years, just the warnings about crime mad me a bit uneasy, but your post helped me relax Thank you very much for that.
As for Lanciano, it seems we are back to square one. Your feedback doesn't sound encouraging. I don't know...we are trying to escape from the cold and the snow, but no matter it is 12-15 degrees if it's gonna rain a lot.

To sum it up again, hoping to get some piece of advise on a suitable place- a big village, or a small town, that doesn't shut up completely in winter time- a place, that has food stores, preferably- a vegetable market, a restaurant, internet is a must, close to doctors and vets (we have a cat). We are going to use savings, so the cheaper the apartment- the better, but of course- to be in livable condition and since we'll be only for 4-5 months, we will not bring furniture, so the apartment has to be furnished. Some English speaking expats around would be nice and if possible- close to a bigger town/city. I'd prefer to be by the sea, but if it's not- it is not a deal-breaker.


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## NickZ

Really sounds to me you're looking at a furnished vacation rental. You're coming off season so you likely will have your pick.

The small towns are fairly safe. People still leave the doors open. 

Even the smallest town will have shops. Most will have a doctor. I assume you'll have a car? If so then at most you'll be facing a short drive. 

Avoid anything in the countryside. 

For internet you'll likely be stuck with an USB dongle/key. 

You can't count on the weather. 2007 Spring started mid Jan. This year it was almost May when it started. Still after the start of the year the weather tends to turn from mostly cloudy to more often sunny.

You might consider Termoli. It tends to be warmer then Abruzzo.


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## pudd 2

try francaviller its a sea side town in winter lots ofr cheap funished aparments only snowed once in 100 years google it


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## MaggieBuchardt

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am officially in love with Termoli. Looks just the right size, is on the coast, not totally dead in the winter and the climate seems perfect. Wow, you made it very easy for us. 

We'll come by car to Italy, so we are able to explore a bit, since we are planning after this first winter to live 6 months there and six-in Bulgaria and Norway. Now I am planning to read everything there is about this town, so I don't have to ask stupid questions.

One more time- thank you all for your help. You are wonderful people.


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## MaggieBuchardt

Pudd 2, is it Frankaviller, because I can't find such place? I found Francavilla al Mare in Abruzzo, is that the place you have in mind? If so- it is beautiful, will definitely read about it. Thank you very, very much for your time and effort


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## sheilamarsco

best to come and rent for a short while but if you do decide to do that then it would have to be in the off season as most people with property rent in the summer from about may until the end of september. re finding property check out the various websites have a look at the estate agents they sometimes have properties for rent or try the holiday websites like owners direct and contact the owners about renting for a short period off season i'm sure many would consider this. the coast is not over run with immigrants and the towns are not dirty so i'm glad you haven't believed all of what you read re earthquake risk abruzzo is a big region and in only some parts there is a risk.


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## MaggieBuchardt

Hi Sheila,
Thank you very much for your helpful information. 
As I said- I don't have issues with immigrants- very open minded and very careful not to label people, based on rase and nationality- I only have issues with people not willing to obey the law in the country that is their second home, bt who doesn't... Glad the situation is different from what I read online and in the news. By the way, I wasn't aware of the fact, that the nature in Abruzzo region is so stunning. Lakes, forests, the sea- now I want to be everywhere. I guess we can't decide from a distance where we want to settle, so I guess we'll have to go to there, travel for a few days and then decide where our home base will be...


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## PauloPievese

Well, I hope Larry and Arlene are still monitoring this thread. I'm in somewhat of a similar situation. Personal finances are such a touchy subject but y'all introduced it with the 'bad investment advice' comment. So what annual income are y'all expecting to live on in Italy. I'll open my kimono; after years of bad investments, high living, and divorce, with SSA I can probably count on a sustained E30K/yr. Hope to hear from you. =Paul=


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## Larry and Arlene

Hi Paul- The crash of 2007 was tough of those of us who retired thinking we had been careful and invested prudently to be able to live forward in a reasonable way. But that all changed. IRAs got hammered as did our home value that was supposed to be a hedge against the market. So we are, in the words of one of our daughters, "making lemoncello out of lemons." We will be living in rented space in Italy with a lot less square footage but a very much improved quality of life.

As to financials, an information sheet from the Italian Consulate in Los Angeles pursuant to applying for the Elective Residence Visa (a stay past 90 days and no work allowed) states a single applicant must have a minimum monthly income of 2,596.60 Euros at the then $1.30/Euro. The exchange ratio is a little worse currently. No indication what the expectation is for a couple under the same roof. One hopes less than double.

We have a house to sell first. We are aiming at next spring for going on the market. We are going to Italy in April to line up a rental to satisfy that part of the visa requirement. Then it is the timing game of up to 90 days to get the visa, closing on a home sale and then timing for the beginning of a lease in Italy. So nothing is simple but we fell in love with Italy some years ago so living there is going to beat a commute from the US.


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## PauloPievese

All good information. And I could limbo under the Euro limit by planning to die at 88 instead of 90. Saw your other post on the transit through Umbria and once again have to note the variability of the information available. Checking again, my map shows basically a blank east of Rome. Personally however, as Rome just looks unaffordable, I'm thinking of Parma where housing at least appears to be about 2/3 of Rome and you're roughly equidistant from Florence, Milan, Venice, and Bologna. I am more of a metro guy. Also the food. One cool thing about Rome though, you apparently can get an annual train pass for about E200 that will take you from Viterbo to Ostia and points south. Pretty good deal. Ciao. =Paul=


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## christinedelrosso

Hi, welcome to Abruzzo, I too am American/Italian and been here for 3 years. Some of the laws and social adjustments are different for us. If I can be of any assistance do not hesitate to contact me. We have a group that meets 2'xs a month for coffee and sharing if interested. We move it from town to town to include everyone. We have helped each other with all sorts of adjustments, needs and made new friends.


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## Larry and Arlene

Hi Christine-
Mille grazie for the reply. We are just starting to put our home in southern California on the market. So our timing is totally dependent on the date the sale finally closes. Any thoughts on how different the weather is in the mountain valley of Sulmona as compared to the area outside Pescara? How much worse are the winters in Sulmona?

Larry & Arlene


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## pudd 2

Larry and Arlene said:


> Hi Christine-
> Mille grazie for the reply. We are just starting to put our home in southern California on the market. So our timing is totally dependent on the date the sale finally closes. Any thoughts on how different the weather is in the mountain valley of Sulmona as compared to the area outside Pescara? How much worse are the winters in Sulmona?
> 
> Larry & Arlene


the vally that runs past sulmona an tocca is the coldest windius place in abruzzo on the a 25 to rome moterway its so hard to keep your car on the road and this is most days as the vally has a mini climate 
you only have to look at the number of electic generating wind mills in the area 
there are hardly any in the rest of abruzzo 
Were we live in pretoro the wid hardly blows winter or summer an wind mill would be a waist of time ,
If you want wamth you woul be better to look in the Chieti region francaviler al mare is a good place to look we get strawberrys in mach out side and there are lots of aparments to rent as the seaside trade has declined a bit since the resesion 
if you need any help finding rented acomadation i might be able to help you


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## Larry and Arlene

Many Thanks Pudd. That is very useful information. After many years in southern California I think Arlene and I better think twice about the cold and wind. We will look at the Chieti Province more carefully - we are Google Earth fans! We have to line uop something to rent to satisfy the Elective Residence Visa "suitable address" arranged in advance requirement. Your offer of assistance is very much appreciated.


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## PauloPievese

Spent a delightful day in Francavilla al Mare in the Chieti province. My strongest memory is of a motorist stopping to chat with someone on the sidewalk for a couple of minutes and traffic just waiting until they were done. Try that in Milan! If you're willing to get further off the (American) beaten track drift on down to the Gargano.


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## bobnease

You may want to check out southern Marche as well as Abruzzo -- lovely towns there!


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