# Residencia: Catch-22



## Alexandraxa (8 mo ago)

Hello,

I am an EU citizen planning to move to Spain. I will first move between a few different short-term rentals and explore the country before I settle, so I will not have a fixed address in the first year. Speaking to various legal advisors in Spain everyone tells me:

a) After 3 months I MUST registrer for Residencia
b) To register for Residencia I MUST have a permanent address

This presents me with a catch-22

I can't be the only one. So how is it possible for people like myself who should be able stay legally in the country after 3 months, but will not yet have a permanent contract established in such a short time? Very much appreciate your experiences and insights!

Alexandra, Sweden (EU)


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alexandraxa said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am an EU citizen planning to move to Spain. I will first move between a few different short-term rentals and explore the country before I settle, so I will not have a fixed address in the first year. Speaking to various legal advisors in Spain everyone tells me:
> 
> ...


As long as you have a proper residential rental contract, you can register as resident.


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## Alexandraxa (8 mo ago)

xabiaxica said:


> As long as you have a proper residential rental contract, you can register as resident.


Thank you! But 'A proper Residential Contract' implies long-term settlement. As someone who will be staying on 2-3 month rentals via various AirB&Bs in the first year, I am unable to obtain such a contract, yet I should still be able to stay legally in the country. What does the law suggest that we do?


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I would imagine that if you dont have have a rental contract after 3 months then you are not able to take up residency in Spain. However as many will attest EU citizens are not really subjected to any examination per se time in another EU country unless you fell foul of the law. So it isn't worth worrying about too much. Obviously it stands to reason though that you cant claim residency if you dont have a fixed place of residence!


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## Alexandraxa (8 mo ago)

kaipa said:


> I would imagine that if you dont have have a rental contract after 3 months then you are not able to take up residency in Spain. However as many will attest EU citizens are not really subjected to any examination per se time in another EU country unless you fell foul of the law. So it isn't worth worrying about too much. Obviously it stands to reason though that you cant claim residency if you dont have a fixed place of residence!


Thank you! Yes that seems logical, yet the law requires one to be registered after 3 months in the country, albeit not on a fixed address in the same country. So its is arbitrary at best. But I hear you about it not being a big deal and it already made me smile and relax!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Alexandraxa said:


> Thank you! Yes that seems logical, yet the law requires one to be registered after 3 months in the country, albeit not on a fixed address in the same country. So its is arbitrary at best. But I hear you about it not being a big deal and it already made me smile and relax!


It's actually "within 3 months if you intend staying longer". Don't forget also that you can't stay past 3 months anyway without being resident (or in the process of ...) due to the schengen rules.


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## Alexandraxa (8 mo ago)

Well if I ‘intend to stay in the country’ but not at a fixed address, how then can I fulfil this requirement? The law is arbitrary


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alexandraxa said:


> Well if I ‘intend to stay in the country’ but not at a fixed address, how then can I fulfil this requirement? The law is arbitrary


Although, as said, you're not likely to get in much if any real trouble for not registering, if you're even caught - if for any other reason you should come to the notice of the police (speeding for instance), then the lack of a resident registration document would be added to whatever else was happening.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Alexandraxa said:


> Well if I ‘intend to stay in the country’ but not at a fixed address, how then can I fulfil this requirement? The law is arbitrary


There are 'lots' (don't have a number) of other EU countries citizens who live and own property here but are still not legal resident.
We have a Dutch friend who has been in Spain for many years, drives a Dutch reg car (which can and is ITV'd here), has a Dutch drivers licence etc (licence address is her mothers), but has never registered.
She knows she should but cannot be bothered as do many of her friends because they don't see the need. 
They all say 'we are EU citizens we are free to come and go as we please'. (thats what most take the freedom of movement act for)
The law may be that in Spain you have to register after 3 months, but who if anyone is actually checking???
And if you drove here there is only a very slim chance of being stopped at any land border these days (unless the police are actually checking for someone after a tip off)

The other thing here is, what does registering as a resident actually get you, when you are already an EU citizen??
Only the fun of having to pay taxes etc here, can't see any other benefit and this would only be worth it, if you were from a higher taxing country...


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Alexandraxa said:


> The law is arbitrary


I wouldn't say the law was arbitrary, under the Schengen rules it's actually crystal clear but for EU citizens very seldom enforced.


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## Mforster (Mar 27, 2019)

Alexandraxa said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am an EU citizen planning to move to Spain. I will first move between a few different short-term rentals and explore the country before I settle, so I will not have a fixed address in the first year. Speaking to various legal advisors in Spain everyone tells me:
> 
> ...


Alexandra, don't worry about it. I've been living in Spain for 3 years now. I've bought a house, imported my (dutch licensed) car, pay IBI (taxes for the house) have an annual ITV (MOT) for the car. I have a NIE number, a Dutch passport, a Spanish bank account and everything else except a resident card. I've tried twice to apply and jump through all the hoops etc. (Application for EU citizens is at the National Police station). The main reason for not giving me a resident card is that I'm not working. Even though I have a good amount of money in my bank account (with certificate!), a Spanish private health insurance, proof of being registered at the town/village hall they still won't issue a card. Before buying the house I was renting an apartment (2 months only) and it was all inclusive. They wanted to see an electricity bill in my name.... which I obviously didn't have! So now, I can't be bothered. My partner (also EU citizen) became an autonomo (self employed) 2 years ago, he went with a lawyer to get the residence card, and got it, all within an hour! He's also now in the social security/health system. Long story..... but in my opinion it's all bureaucracy and depends whether the person you're dealing with is having a good day or not!


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## Alexandraxa (8 mo ago)

Mforster said:


> Alexandra, don't worry about it. I've been living in Spain for 3 years now. I've bought a house, imported my (dutch licensed) car, pay IBI (taxes for the house) have an annual ITV (MOT) for the car. I have a NIE number, a Dutch passport, a Spanish bank account and everything else except a resident card. I've tried twice to apply and jump through all the hoops etc. (Application for EU citizens is at the National Police station). The main reason for not giving me a resident card is that I'm not working. Even though I have a good amount of money in my bank account (with certificate!), a Spanish private health insurance, proof of being registered at the town/village hall they still won't issue a card. Before buying the house I was renting an apartment (2 months only) and it was all inclusive. They wanted to see an electricity bill in my name.... which I obviously didn't have! So now, I can't be bothered. My partner (also EU citizen) became an autonomo (self employed) 2 years ago, he went with a lawyer to get the residence card, and got it, all within an hour! He's also now in the social security/health system. Long story..... but in my opinion it's all bureaucracy and depends whether the person you're dealing with is having a good day or not!


Thank you for such an exhaustive answer and life story! But isn't the NIE number the first step towards a Residencia? I have been told my several lawyers who are happy to charge for this NIE, that even to get a NIE I need a formal long term rental contract. No fixed address - No NIE - No health coverage. It's not that I NEED to become a resident, its that the 3 month rule seems to demand it - but as many have said on here - who is checking? It seems my best option at this stage is not to bother and simply get a private health insurance to cover me for the first year in the country unless I decide where to settle. Can anyone on this amazing community suggest an affordable private health insurance provider? Thank you!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Alexandraxa said:


> Thank you for such an exhaustive answer and life story! But isn't the NIE number the first step towards a Residencia? I have been told my several lawyers who are happy to charge for this NIE, that even to get a NIE I need a formal long term rental contract. No fixed address - No NIE - No health coverage. It's not that I NEED to become a resident, its that the 3 month rule seems to demand it - but as many have said on here - who is checking? It seems my best option at this stage is not to bother and simply get a private health insurance to cover me for the first year in the country unless I decide where to settle. Can anyone on this amazing community suggest an affordable private health insurance provider? Thank you!


To get an NIE, all you need is a reason (like bank account, buying a property, buying a car etc.). You do NOT need to be living here! Your lawyer is incorrect. Many non-residents have a holiday home here and so have an NIE.

You won't get health coverage until certain criteria are met - including being resident.

Personally, I would say "do things legally" then you won't need to be constantly looking over your shoulder.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

You dont need a Spanish address for a NIE although you usually require a reason for. For example, non residents inheriting assets from Spain( including their spouses) need NIEs even if they have never set foot in Spain. Most people get them as part of the registration process and you shouldn't need to pay for it. TBH you should basically comply with the law as it is instead of fixating on what you would like to happen. In other words, do your moving around Spain in the first 3 months then find a fixed address in order to apply for residency. That is how it is designed to work. Once you have your residency you are still free to roam although you may have to accept a 9 month rental contract. You will need private healthcare for a year anyway you look at it as you are not eligible to get a community healthcare which will still cost you. In other words you cant roam around Spain and claim to be a resident for 6 months or so without an address. However be aware that if you do remain in Spain for over 183 days you will be a Spanish tax resident with or without residency or a fixed address


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## Mforster (Mar 27, 2019)

Alexandraxa said:


> Thank you for such an exhaustive answer and life story! But isn't the NIE number the first step towards a Residencia? I have been told my several lawyers who are happy to charge for this NIE, that even to get a NIE I need a formal long term rental contract. No fixed address - No NIE - No health coverage. It's not that I NEED to become a resident, its that the 3 month rule seems to demand it - but as many have said on here - who is checking? It seems my best option at this stage is not to bother and simply get a private health insurance to cover me for the first year in the country unless I decide where to settle. Can anyone on this amazing community suggest an affordable private health insurance provider? Thank you!


Alexandraxa, as mentioned in a couple of other posts you can apply for a NIE number at the Spanish embassy/consulate in your own country. You do need to give a reason for the application. (Obviously in my case to buy a house). Also, (as mentioned by others) to open a Spanish bank account or apply for private health insurance you will definitely need a NIE number. One of the biggest private health insurance companies is Sanitas. You should shop around though on the internet sites to find a good deal. Good luck with everything!


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## Alexandraxa (8 mo ago)

Mforster said:


> Alexandraxa, as mentioned in a couple of other posts you can apply for a NIE number at the Spanish embassy/consulate in your own country. You do need to give a reason for the application. (Obviously in my case to buy a house). Also, (as mentioned by others) to open a Spanish bank account or apply for private health insurance you will definitely need a NIE number. One of the biggest private health insurance companies is Sanitas. You should shop around though on the internet sites to find a good deal. Good luck with everything!


Thank you!


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## Alexander Is. (8 mo ago)

Mforster said:


> Alexandra, don't worry about it. I've been living in Spain for 3 years now. I've bought a house, imported my (dutch licensed) car, pay IBI (taxes for the house) have an annual ITV (MOT) for the car. I have a NIE number, a Dutch passport, a Spanish bank account and everything else except a resident card. I've tried twice to apply and jump through all the hoops etc.


Hello Mforster, what bank account is it without resident card please ? so far only Caixa seems to offer one, others require me to contract a 50€/month private health insurance to open account without being resident


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Alexander Is. said:


> Hello Mforster, what bank account is it without resident card please ? so far only Caixa seems to offer one, others require me to contract a 50€/month private health insurance to open account without being resident


All banks offer a non-resident account - you just have to ask.

An online account like Wefferent from CajaMar is completely free and is available to non-residents


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## Mforster (Mar 27, 2019)

Alexander Is. said:


> Hello Mforster, what bank account is it without resident card please ? so far only Caixa seems to offer one, others require me to contract a 50€/month private health insurance to open account without being resident


I have BBVA as my bank, so far I'm quite happy with them. All banks have recently (since last year or before...) changed their terms and conditions as to how much more must be in the account or how much needs to be transferred into the account each month to avoid charges/costs. As far as health insurance goes, I have no idea what the bank has to do with that...... Anyway, whichever one you end up choosing make sure it's not too far away from where you may be living because if you draw money from any other ATM than your own bank you will be charged. And.... always handy if/when you need to go there in person either to pick up a debit card or ask questions, complain.....


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## Alexander Is. (8 mo ago)

Thanks ! indeed i was at the local BBVA a last week and they told me without the green NIE and residence they only agree to open an account if you sign a contract for a private health insurance 50/month.

Well maybe things changed recently, i'll try somewhere else  Sabadell told me it was okay but also with medical insurance contracted through them.


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## Alexander Is. (8 mo ago)

Wefferent de Cajamar : 

*Necesitarás:*

Tener el *DNI o la tarjeta de residente, vigente* y a mano
Contar con *cámara* en tu dispositivo
Tener tu *teléfono móvil* cerca
Ser *mayor de edad*, residente en *España* y con capacidad de obrar *plena*


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Alexander Is. said:


> Wefferent de Cajamar :
> 
> *Necesitarás:*
> 
> ...


Many of my non-resident friends opened an account with just their NIE.

by-the-way, there's no such thing as a green NIE!


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## Alexander Is. (8 mo ago)

Interesting, wheere snikpoh ? 

About the NIE you're right, its the card which is green, the Certificado de registro : Differences between NIE, Green Card and TIE in Spain


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## manuka (May 26, 2014)

We have Caixa bank and had to take out house insurance as part of the deal


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## Alexander Is. (8 mo ago)

ah yes thanks, i guess that's always the trick to sell house or medical insurance to allow foreigners to open an account although it seems hellobank as no such requirements but is not a free account


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Banks often offer products if they are going to charge for simething. The obvious one is the cashier draft that is needed for the Notary when buying a property. It normally cost around 300 euros ( ridiculousl, I know) but they will always offset it if you buy house insurance through them ( well one they get commissions for). It is common practice in Spain and, as I said, Spanish banks are really legalised criminals which would have been reformed years ago had it not been for PP being heavily supported by them. The socialists have managed to allow individuals to instigate court proceedings against many of the heads of these banks and slowly they being prosecuted and jailed but unfortunately they still hold considerable power over those high up and clearly still feel untouchable.


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## Alexander Is. (8 mo ago)

interesting to know kaipa, thanks


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

kaipa said:


> Banks often offer products if they are going to charge for simething. The obvious one is the cashier draft that is needed for the Notary when buying a property. It normally cost around 300 euros ( ridiculousl, I know) but they will always offset it if you buy house insurance through them ( well one they get commissions for). It is common practice in Spain and, as I said, Spanish banks are really legalised criminals which would have been reformed years ago had it not been for PP being heavily supported by them. The socialists have managed to allow individuals to instigate court proceedings against many of the heads of these banks and slowly they being prosecuted and jailed but unfortunately they still hold considerable power over those high up and clearly still feel untouchable.



When the wife opened her Santander account in 2019 they said she had to take one of their offered products or she couldnt open the account.
I opened mine in 2017 with no requirements.

She opted for the healthcare as it was €150 a year cheaper than we had been quoted anywhere else and it was guarenteed good for residency. 
After checking with our solicitor who contacted Aegon and was assured we would qualify, we both took the insurance and even now three years later with no increases (as we haven't claimed) its still cheaper than the others I have enquired about since (even going with Co-pay now).
This also counts towards ensuring the account stays free of charges as well with Santander (or used to, its a guess now what they want)
We also got €100.00 bonus paid into the accounts last year for completing all the requirements of the account (this had to go on our tax return of course) 

Banks here are the way they used to be donkeys ago in the Uk and having had business accounts in the UK that charge for paying in cash, charges here are not a problem for me. 

The only thing you will get for nothing that is worth it IS NOTHING... wise bloke once told me this.....


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## Alexander Is. (8 mo ago)

Well it depends I guess. I have several accounts in several banks in Belgium, all accounts are free, debit and credit cards also free (after using various bonuses for using them), withdrawals and SEPA transfers are free in the country, no linked contracts requirements or insurance or anything, no maintenance fees. Modern mobile apps and online services.


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Alexander Is. said:


> Well it depends I guess. I have several accounts in several banks in Belgium, all accounts are free, debit and credit cards also free (after using various bonuses for using them), withdrawals and SEPA transfers are free in the country, no linked contracts requirements or insurance or anything, no maintenance fees. Modern mobile apps and online services.


Yep different rules for each country. These are the fun things about Spain.
However if a charged bank account makes anyone think twice about moving to a country, possibly they may not be that set on it really (not that Im saying this about you) 

If you want fun, be American, most banks wont deal with them as the bank has to report back to the states and its something most don't want to do. Poor US citizens have very few choices here (at least we can be tax resident here and only pay one simple lot, they still have to cough up to the US first)...


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## Baja Vicki M. (Oct 24, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> As long as you have a proper residential rental contract, you can register as resident.


The simple answer, especially if you are Air BnB ing is in the last week of your third month, go stay in an air BnB in an adjoining country (France? Portugal?) for 5 days, then return to Spain. It “resets” the clock on how long you have been there. I have done this in Mexico with 180 day tourist visa ever since I came here - all 3 years. Not settled to apply for permanent residency yet.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Baja Vicki M. said:


> The simple answer, especially if you are Air BnB ing is in the last week of your third month, go stay in an air BnB in an adjoining country (France? Portugal?) for 5 days, then return to Spain. It “resets” the clock on how long you have been there. I have done this in Mexico with 180 day tourist visa ever since I came here - all 3 years. Not settled to apply for permanent residency yet.


Doesn't work like that. Schengen rule is 90-in-180 days, so going to another country (it must be outside Schengen, so UK, Ireland, Morocco etc) doesn't reset the clock. You have to stay away at least 90 days before you can start another 90-day stay. Visa-run as you have done in Mexico, Thailand etc doesn't work in Schengen countries.


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