# Areas to Live, moving from US, working downtown



## dcdarling002

Hello all:
I will be relocating at the end of the year for a position in Singapore from the US. My company is located downtown, and I wanted to get recommendations on what districts to live in for a viable commute and manageable rent. My budget would be under $2000K per month US, and want somewhere that has great food, and is fairly walkable (I won't have a car) I have done a ton of research and of coursed spoken to the company, but I wanted to get outside perspective. Is this budget actually manageable? What are the good districts? Would I absolutely need to use an agent to find an apartment? What is the process of renting an apartment? 

Thank you in advance! lane:


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## BBCWatcher

"Downtown" meaning....? Take a look at the map and find the nearest MRT station, and note whether the office is walkable from that station. Report back the name of that station, and you can get some better advice.

Family, or just you? If the former, how many other people?

Great food? What kind(s) of food?

No, you don't need to use an agent. Make sure you get a "diplomatic clause" in your lease.


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## dcdarling002

My office will be located right in the middle of Raffles Place and Marina Bay. It looks like both stations are equal distance. 
No family, just me. 
I really just want to be in the local scene of food, perhaps a decent pub close or shopping. 

Thank you!


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## BBCWatcher

dcdarling002 said:


> My office will be located right in the middle of Raffles Place and Marina Bay. It looks like both stations are equal distance.


Check that map again.  There's a station named Downtown (appropriately enough) between those two stations. Is that going to be your #1 station of choice?


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## Linuxpro

I live in Tanjong Pagar Plaza. The rent here is pretty high. I am paying $2500. (Singapore), and I have a large flat. I also work right next to Marina Bay. I can see Raffels place from the window. My walk is about 15 min.

I recommend paying the extra rent the unit on the end, not in the middle. Get a flat high up where the breeze is better, and you can be above the exhost from the busses. If you live on a lower floor you will have to keep the windows closed and the AC running. Your utility bill will be high rather than $80-$90 like mine.

Does your company pay your rent? Is that why the $2000 limit? I pay my own, but my salary exceeds $8000. Anyway $2000 will limit your options.

Good food is everywhere in Singapore.


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## Linuxpro

You can walk underground all the way from Chinatown to Marina Bay and emerge next to Marina Blvd if you know what “tunnels” to take. You can find rentals near Chinatown, and over in Tanjong Pagar. I do not know of any inexpensive rentals near “Downtown”, “Telok Ayer”, or “Raffles Place”.

If you do not mind the walk, I recommend Duxton Park”. It is close to the Otram Park” MRT station. Expect to pay $2500 or more (Singapore).

A good food court is at Lau Pa Sat (on Cross Street). I eat there myself. There are six major USA employers right in the area you describe (AIA/AIG, Bank of America/Merrill, Citibank, Microsoft, Redhat, and Yahoo. All six, of them, are within a short walk of Lau Pa Sat. 

The food court on the second floor of the Citibank building is small, but air conditioned. There is a Subway Sandwich shop in an underground shopping area near Marina Bay (I forget the location).

I enjoy walking around the marina at lunch time. There are some very interesting park benches to look at (hard to describe on the internet). Also it is nice to walk over to “Clark Quay”. 

Unfortunately the air is so bad today that I spent little time outside. 

You do not have to use an agent, but I do not see how you will manage to locate a flat without one. The agent fees can be outrageous. The agent my employer set be up with specializes in foreigners so needless to say his rates are outrageous. Anyway, the process is up to your employer. My friends contacted the agent and got me set up. You need to get a bank account before you can rent so I suggest you do so. 

If you earn less than $5000 (Singapore) a month, you cannot bring your spouse or get married unless she qualifies on her own. I met my wife here, but we got married back in the USA (another story).

If you are single, then you can maybe rent a room. A lot of old people here supplement their income that way. 

I arrived on a Monday morning. I went to the "MOM" on Wednesday, and picked up my Employment Pass on Saturday. Officially, last I knew, it takes 3-30 working days. How long it takes depends on the backlog, and if you have any "dents" in your background. If you look clean, then they have no reason to dig deeper so it will go pretty fast.

We get paid once a month here, and odds are it will be a few weeks before you see a first paycheck. There will be some move-in costs up front. You had better bring with you $6000 (Singapore) or more with you when you arrive.

Good luck


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## BBCWatcher

Linuxpro said:


> You can walk underground all the way from Chinatown to Marina Bay and emerge next to Marina Blvd if you know what “tunnels” to take.... If you do not mind the walk, I recommend Duxton Park”. It is close to the Otram Park” MRT station. Expect to pay $2500 or more (Singapore).


True, but all of that is less convenient for getting to/from AIS. (Kids, remember? )

Bus routes 73, 105, and 159 also serve AIS. Bus 73 stops right at Ang Mo Kio MRT station, and Bus 159 isn't far off. AMK is on the North South Line to Marina Bay MRT station (North South and Circle Lines). Centro Residences, a new condo building, is practically on top of AMK station, so that particular condo building would work very well. From there it'd be Bus 159 or 73 for the kids (straight shot/single ride -- 73 meanders a bit more enroute but stops closer on the AMK end to that particular condo building), and it'd be the North South Line for work (also a straight shot/single ride). Or the kids could take the train if they prefer from AMK to Bishan (only one stop) then transfer at Bishan to Lorong Chuan (one stop again). AMK Hub, a big shopping center, is right there, too -- and yes, there's a very good FairPrice Xtra at AMK Hub. All that fits, but I have no idea how expensive that particular condo building is.


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## Linuxpro

He made no mention of a wife or children.

I gathered he is not interested in local food (too bad, he will be missing out lah). There are several pubs and Western resturants. In the Citibank building they have Triple-O's. There is a pub on Ciecel Street, and lots more over on Pub Street (long walk). They also have plenty at Clark Quway. 

There is a Postarama, and Mosburger near the CPF building. There is a Pizza place, and a sandwitch shop down the street from Telok Ayer (toward Chinatown). One street over there is a Western style salad shop.

I seldom ride the bus so I know nothing about it. I prefer the train. My favorite is the Downtown line (always plenty of seats). 

After a few months here, if he is not eating chilicrab, and downing a Carlsburg, I will be surprised!


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## BBCWatcher

Linuxpro said:


> He made no mention of a wife or children.


You're right! I'm mixing up this thread with another. Pay no attention to my confusion.


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## Linuxpro

BBCWatcher said:


> Pay no attention to my confusion.


Pay no mind for me mis-typing on my iPad.


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## mayrolllate

Congrats on making the move to SG - here's my two cents:

-downtown is called CBD here, central business district (downtown is a subway stop, but the subway here is called the MRT)

-I live in Spottiswoode and love it - it's next to Tanjong Pagar and Tiong Bahru (near Outram Park MRT) which has great eating/coffee spots. A walk to CBD would be about 30 min, which is doable but not advised because of the heat and humidity. (A note on that - don't plan on walking a bunch like in Europe or big American cities because it's always very very humid here - think of summers in the US South and imagine that all the time). It's not an extremely friendly biking city, partly because the MRT and bus have AC and are very cheap and efficient.

-You should be able to find a very small place on the edge of CBD for $2K US / month, but it will take some searching. Start with propertyguru.com, it's the most comprehensive in Singapore. By very small, I mean less than 500 sq ft. The lease process is very straightforward, you will normally sign for a year or two. Some utilities like cable have a high cancellation fee, so check out alternatives like my republic. Good luck!


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## BBCWatcher

mayrolllate said:


> Some utilities like cable have a high cancellation fee, so check out alternatives like my republic.


Yes, that's one of the good options and good advice, agreed. As another option, M1 offers one year fiber Internet service contracts at S$39/month currently and regularly, sometimes with a free service activation promotion, and including local Singapore fixed phone service, instead of the typical two year contract terms. They're another good option to reduce the risk of an early termination fee.


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## frostmore

Generally the further away you are from the city area, the cheaper your rental is.

In singapore, rental unit are split between HDB(Public housing the locals live in) and CONDOS( private housing). The differences between the 2 are:

HDB
-where most locals live
-easy access to most public transport depending on area (in SIN, buying a japanese car can cost you SGD80K easy)
-easy access to local food places if you are lucky, a mall that is close to the metro and bus interchange where you can buy food after work.
-rentals in some of these area can be around* SGD2K to 3.5K*
-no nearby pubs for drinks or hangout,if you want a drink,you can buy them at a nearby kopitiam (coffeeshops for the locals,its hot, dirty,noisy, very different from what you are used to in USA)
-no paid facilities i.e no pools,gym etc

CONDOS
-private housing where most expats on expat package stays
-paid facilities are ready for use
-not as convenient as HDBs, public transport not as accessible when compared to HDB areas
-rental can be anywhere from SGD3K to 10K a month depending on how large and luxurious you want.
-some are near town,easy access to pubs and drink and meet other expats. and these are the expensive ones.

This info is coming from someone who is local born and bred and have colleagues who were expats. So my advice to you is to choose what you want and see what prices you need to pay.

And generally you do not need an agent but having one will help you save some time.


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## BBCWatcher

frostmore said:


> HDB
> -easy access to most public transport depending on area (in SIN, buying a japanese car can cost you SGD80K easy)


I disagree on this generalization (and the corresponding, opposite one you listed for private condos).



> -easy access to local food places if you are lucky, a mall that is close to the metro and bus interchange where you can buy food after work.


This is not something that separates HDB and private condos.



> -no nearby pubs for drinks or hangout,if you want a drink,you can buy them at a nearby kopitiam (coffeeshops for the locals,its hot, dirty,noisy, very different from what you are used to in USA)


No, disagree. There are plenty of HDB units near pubs (if that matters) and plenty of private condos that aren't. (Nobody in Tanjong Pagar lives near a pub? Really?)



> -no paid facilities i.e no pools,gym etc


There are several public swimming facilities and gyms embedded in HDB developments, and they're Singapore's biggest swimming pools as it happens. If you're a _serious_ swimmer then you might be disappointed with a private condo's swimming pool (if it has one).



> CONDOS
> -paid facilities are ready for use


It depends on the condo facility. There are certainly private condos without gyms, pools, and tennis courts.



> -not as convenient as HDBs, public transport not as accessible when compared to HDB areas


Disagree, as noted. There are many, many private condo units located practically (or actually) on top of MRT stations. Centro Residences at AMK is one recent example among many.



> This info is coming from someone who is local born and bred and have colleagues who were expats. So my advice to you is to choose what you want and see what prices you need to pay.


OK, but no matter who you claim to be pseudonymously you've at least oversimplified and overgeneralized. It's really much simpler if you're in the rental market. Don't worry about HDB v. private if you're looking to rent. Start with making a list of "must haves" and "nice to haves" in terms of location, amenities, etc. Then look at both HDB and private condos that meet your requirements. If you're not happy after looking at a few units, adjust your parameters and try again. There's no need to make it more complicated than it is.

If you're _buying_ a unit the distinction between HDB and private housing is much more important and relevant.


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## frostmore

BBCWatcher said:


> I disagree on this generalization (and the corresponding, opposite one you listed for private condos).
> 
> 
> If you're _buying_ a unit the distinction between HDB and private housing is much more important and relevant.


Its a general observation and yes, its simplifies things so it makes making a decision easier.



> There are several public swimming facilities and gyms embedded in HDB developments, and they're Singapore's biggest swimming pools as it happens. If you're a serious swimmer then you might be disappointed with a private condo's swimming pool (if it has one).



paid facilities are those facilities you paid for when you live in a condo, the monthly maintenance fee which are paid are for the gyms, swimming pools, bbq pits etc. these are private and not open to the general public. the ones you mentioned are public places, which proves my point that HDBs does not have these kind of paid for facilities.and yes,you still pay for public swimming pools and gym but these are not included in the rental you pay no?

In general, renting HDBs are usually for those who want easy access to public facilities and where public transport can easily access. expecting things like pubs and other nightlife entertainment near HDBs are uncommon but not unheard of. Condos provide more comfortable quality of living with an added price on top.These condos aren't cheap to rent when compared to HDB, again in general. to prove my point, come over to neptune court, mandarin gardens,laguna park where a lot of expats live and are not close to any other metro stations but its close to schools,the beach,nearest shopping centre is at parkway or bedok depending on where you want to go.

renting is alot like buying, location and proximity to facilities that one needs/wants is usually the determining factor. buying is a whole other issue which i wouldn't be going into.


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## BBCWatcher

frostmore said:


> Its a general observation and yes, its simplifies things so it makes making a decision easier.


No, I disagree. There is no distinction here for these purposes, so why force one? Keep it simple: look at both HDB and private condos based on the amenities you want. Don't discriminate up front and potentially miss your "best" rental unit.

If you simply look at a map of Singapore you'll see HDB developments throughout the country and private condo developments throughout the country, side by side practically everywhere. For every example you give of a private condo that isn't close to an MRT station (or an HDB development that isn't near a pub) I can give you an example of one that is -- that's not hard!



> ...paid facilities are those facilities you paid for when you live in a condo...


OK, that's fine. By "paid facilities" you mean, for example, a swimming pool that's part of the building or development, and access to the swimming pool is included as an amenity within the rental rate. Yes, correct, there's a difference in how (and how much) you pay. If you want a pool or gym you can certainly access one if you live in an HDB rental unit (at least many of them), but yes, you will pay a dollar or two per access. Of course that difference in how you pay is reflected in rental rates, and there is a _significant_ market rental premium for that "free" condo pool, a premium much higher than if you were to pay the admission fee every day.



> ...these are private and not open to the general public.


Well, they're open with no admission fee to all residents of the private condo building (that has those amenities) _and their guests_. There are also "public" facilities, many embedded within HDB developments, that charge small admission fees. Which approach is "better"? Very hard to say, but it's true the rental market currently assigns an _extraordinarily_ high premium to the former. Is that premium worth paying? We simply cannot decide that question for somebody else, nor should we try.

Look at some of both. Then decide. Simple!


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## frostmore

BBCWatcher said:


> No, I disagree. There is no distinction here for these purposes, so why force one? Keep it simple: look at both HDB and private condos based on the amenities you want. Don't discriminate up front and potentially miss your "best" rental unit.
> 
> Look at some of both. Then decide. Simple!


Looks like we can agree to disagree.

My approach to rental is based on the type of properties you want to live in and what to expect from there on.

Your seems to be casting a wider net on how you can get the best by looking at both types of properties and move on from there.

what we have seem to come to agree is, at the end of the day, it depends on what kind of amenities you want and how much are you willing to pay for them.


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## BBCWatcher

Especially as Singaporeans' wealth and tastes have shifted, there are some _incredible_ HDB units available for rent...and some really awful, terrible, "dumpy" private condos. I am going to disagree with you, yes.


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## Linuxpro

They have all the free exercise equipment I could want to use right here near my rented HDB. 

I get membership to a swimming pool through my employer, even though I have to take a 20 min bus ride to the swimming pool. 

I guess if you pay extra for a condo with a nearby pool you save yourself the walk or ride.

Some of us are being moved out of the building to another location near lavendar. There will be a shuttle service twice a day that travels between the two offices. Any thougts on that?


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## BBCWatcher

Linuxpro said:


> I guess if you pay extra for a condo with a nearby pool you save yourself the walk or ride.


Or rent an HDB unit near a pool (e.g. downstairs) if that's on your requirements list.

At last count there are 26 government-supported public swimming complexes spread across Singapore in every direction. ("Complex" means many of the facilities have multiple huge swimming pools. If you're serious about swimming, this is what you want.) There are many thousands of HDB units that are at least as close to those swimming complexes as private condo units are to their more modest facilities (when they have swimming pools).

*All* I'm suggesting is "private v. HDB" is not a reasonable filtering parameter when you're searching for a rental unit. Ignore that, and just find the amenities you like and need, and put a variety of units on your viewing list. (Buying is very different, as mentioned.) Yes, I know, rental agents generally get paid more when you rent a private condo, but that's not anybody's problem except theirs. Shop around, and pick what you like.


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## Linuxpro

Now if my wife would only learn to swim!


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## BBCWatcher

The public swimming complexes offer low cost swimming lessons, and the facilities are entirely appropriate for such lessons. Private condo swimming pools generally don't, though in principle you might be able to hire a private swimming instructor if the private condo owner doesn't object and if the condo's swimming pool is adequate for this purpose.


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## Linuxpro

Very good!

Thanx


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## lisaoctavia

Hi dcdarling002

Wanted to try and help if I could- not sure if you've got yourself sorted yet or not. I was in exactly the same predicament when I moved to Singapore in April from the UK. I knew I wanted to be within a decent commutable distance to work but equally had a budget and no clue about areas. The best resource I found for info was this site: 99.co

I have done a search on there for you that shows 25 minute commuting time to Raffles Place and then set the upper budget to $3000 Sing Dollars (roughly the USD budget you mentioned- maybe a little higher but you could negotiate). It won't let me post the link to you here  sorry but it's really easy to use so you can do the same search!

There is an option for you engage a tenant's agent to search on your behalf- you will then pay them a commission to do so. However, with that link I sent you can send enquiries directly to the landlord agent who is paid by the landlord to find them tenants, so you cut out one middle man and cost for yourself.

The site also has pretty good info on their blog which is 99.co / blog / singapore (sorry no link posting here either!) like neighbourhood guides etc. that give a good flavour of the areas. 

Hope that helps


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