# Article 116



## bones774

I'm newly pensioned in US and processing for dual citizenship under Art 116 o be USA and German citizen. I would like to star spending a large part of the year in Europe particularly Germany and Spain. I understand that as a german citizen i have rights in all the EU? Does that cover medical and dental? how does one go about enrolling in these programs? Is there some organiztion some may know of to help repatriate german citizens? help with housing and langauge and what not? I would love to hear all thoughts and opinions on the matter. Thanks


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## bones774

Regarding my OP. What i am saying is i will arrive in Germany as a retired citizen with a US pension, will i be required to buy health insurance?


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## Tellus

bones774 said:


> Regarding my OP. What i am saying is i will arrive in Germany as a retired citizen with a US pension, will i be required to buy health insurance?


...I think so, cause every visit at the doctors has its price..
Im retired too, spend all my life for insurance and now if getting pension have to pay for insurance further..it´s bull...but real.


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## expatgal

bones774 said:


> I'm newly pensioned in US and processing for dual citizenship under Art 116 o be USA and German citizen. I would like to star spending a large part of the year in Europe particularly Germany and Spain. I understand that as a german citizen i have rights in all the EU? Does that cover medical and dental? how does one go about enrolling in these programs? Is there some organiztion some may know of to help repatriate german citizens? help with housing and langauge and what not? I would love to hear all thoughts and opinions on the matter. Thanks


Hello bones,
I've researched article 116, and if your application is approved, it says you will be recognized as a German citizen..as if you had never left.
As such, yes you will have a choice between the private and public insurance.
If you're thinking it will be 'free' think again. You will have to pay for it, and still it will be a bargain!
Germany has a wonderful health system (to my way of thinking), and nothing is free.
I'm not sure if it covers you while traveling through Spain and the rest of europe.
Research the forums and google it. 
Do you know if you will receive a German passport before departing the US?
Good luck!
Question...Article 116, were you or your parents born in Germany?


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## beppi

As far as I can tell, Art 116 covers previously German citizens who lost their citizenship involuntarily before the end of WWII, or who left as refugees (after 1945 probably only applicable to Eastern Germany). Are you one of these?
In any case, German health insurance is compulsory once you take residence in Germany. The public system (gesetzliche Krankenversicherung) is cheaper for older people and will cost you between EUR350 and 700 per month, depending on your world income. If you are employed here, the employer pays half of this.
With a German passport, you can freely move anywhere in the EU (incl. Spain). But you have to conform to the local rules regarding residency and other issues, incl. health insurance. Most if not all EU countries have compulsory health insurance.
For a visit (possibly up to 3 month, but please check this!) you'd be covered by your German health insurance. This requires some prior paperwork, but is doable.


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## bones774

expatgal said:


> Hello bones,
> I've researched article 116, and if your application is approved, it says you will be recognized as a German citizen..as if you had never left.
> As such, yes you will have a choice between the private and public insurance.
> If you're thinking it will be 'free' think again. You will have to pay for it, and still it will be a bargain!
> Germany has a wonderful health system (to my way of thinking), and nothing is free.
> I'm not sure if it covers you while traveling through Spain and the rest of europe.
> Research the forums and google it.
> Do you know if you will receive a German passport before departing the US?
> Good luck!
> Question...Article 116, were you or your parents born in Germany?


My US pension also includes paid for health plan within the US which it appears I would lose were i to spend some time in Germany.
I have been told that a passport is another application, just as if you were a citizen in your native country and you needed to apply. So I would have citizenship before passport.
My dad was born in Germany.


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## expatgal

bones774 said:


> My US pension also includes paid for health plan within the US which it appears I would lose were i to spend some time in Germany.
> I have been told that a passport is another application, just as if you were a citizen in your native country and you needed to apply. So I would have citizenship before passport.
> My dad was born in Germany.


I found this. Not sure how much help it is. 
Beppi may very well be correct, have you heard anything about the application?
Would you give us more info...where your parents came from, what area of Germany?
I am sure more members would like to know how your app is coming along. I know I would.
So you would be the child of such a person.

I pulled this from wikipedia, but, I have seen it on the Germany consulate web site, and many other sites.


Victims of Nazi persecution[edit]
Under Article 116 (2) Basic Law,[7] Some people who lost German citizenship under the Nazi regime may be eligible for naturalisation without requiring residence in Germany or renunciation of their existing citizenship. Children and grandchildren of such persons may also be eligible for German citizenship.[8]

I wish you well in your application. After that, the biggest hurdle will be health insurance....being able to afford it. It's never inexpensive after a certain age.


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## expatgal

*Social Security*

If I remember from my research if you become resident of Germany, your SS will be deposited into a bank account without any deductions.
If you become a citizen of Germany, an automatice 20 or 30% will be deducted, I assume this is to ensure the Feds get their share of taxes.

If anyone knows differently, please correct me.


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## bones774

expatgal said:


> I found this. Not sure how much help it is.
> Beppi may very well be correct, have you heard anything about the application?
> Would you give us more info...where your parents came from, what area of Germany?
> I am sure more members would like to know how your app is coming along. I know I would.
> So you would be the child of such a person.
> 
> I pulled this from wikipedia, but, I have seen it on the Germany consulate web site, and many other sites.
> 
> 
> Victims of Nazi persecution[edit]
> Under Article 116 (2) Basic Law,[7] Some people who lost German citizenship under the Nazi regime may be eligible for naturalisation without requiring residence in Germany or renunciation of their existing citizenship. Children and grandchildren of such persons may also be eligible for German citizenship.[8]
> 
> I wish you well in your application. After that, the biggest hurdle will be health insurance....being able to afford it. It's never inexpensive after a certain age.


I am in contact with an individual from the NY area German Consulate. I am now awaiting certain official docs from the US Govt. I think it will be a ground ball for me. The documentation is there. Perhaps some of the personal info we should communicate via PM.


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## bones774

expatgal said:


> If I remember from my research if you become resident of Germany, your SS will be deposited into a bank account without any deductions.
> If you become a citizen of Germany, an automatice 20 or 30% will be deducted, I assume this is to ensure the Feds get their share of taxes.
> 
> If anyone knows differently, please correct me.


t
I'm now getting my health insurance paid for while in he states. So paying for it in Germany will be an big expense i'm not carrying now. Can't i keep getting checks deposited in US bank?


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## bones774

My best benefit may be getting citizenship for myself and allowing my children to access the higher education universities. Correct me if im wrong but my children will be entitled to german benefits?


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## expatgal

bones774 said:


> t
> I'm now getting my health insurance paid for while in he states. So paying for it in Germany will be an big expense i'm not carrying now. Can't i keep getting checks deposited in US bank?


I understand about the insurance, it's quite dear.
Yes, you can keep your US bank account and deposits.
If you were to buy or rent a home, then you may want an account in Germany to pay expenses. deposit enough from your US account to cover. 
There are post in the forum from member explaining how they cover expenses.
I read the different forums...Uk, France, etc. and take it all in. 
There are many here who can help. This group of expats are quite brilliant. Just ask them a question.


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## bones774

expatgal said:


> I understand about the insurance, it's quite dear.
> Yes, you can keep your US bank account and deposits.
> If you were to buy or rent a home, then you may want an account in Germany to pay expenses. deposit enough from your US account to cover.
> There are post in the forum from member explaining how they cover expenses.
> I read the different forums...Uk, France, etc. and take it all in.
> There are many here who can help. This group of expats are quite brilliant. Just ask them a question.


Yes i am reading all i can. I have a particular scenario regarding retirement and health insurance.


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## Nononymous

bones774 said:


> My best benefit may be getting citizenship for myself and allowing my children to access the higher education universities. Correct me if im wrong but my children will be entitled to german benefits?


Not sure what benefits you are referring to here. 

Assuming your children could get citizenship (which is not at all clear without knowing more about the specifics of your case) there's really not much they'd be entitled to beyond basic welfare, which is a pretty miserable existence, or possibly some financial support as full-time students. As citizens they would of course have the right to live and work in the EU. (This is a good thing, and is perhaps all you mean by "benefits" - not welfare.) 

German universities don't charge (much) tuition for domestic or foreign students (unless something changed massively and I missed it) so there's no great benefit to be had there. They would need to speak German to attend university, of course, unless they were admitted to one of a small number of (highly competitive) English-language programs. See various recent threads here on similar topics.


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## bones774

Nononymous said:


> Not sure what benefits you are referring to here.
> 
> Assuming your children could get citizenship (which is not at all clear without knowing more about the specifics of your case) there's really not much they'd be entitled to beyond basic welfare, which is a pretty miserable existence, or possibly some financial support as full-time students. As citizens they would of course have the right to live and work in the EU. (This is a good thing, and is perhaps all you mean by "benefits" - not welfare.)
> 
> German universities don't charge (much) tuition for domestic or foreign students (unless something changed massively and I missed it) so there's no great benefit to be had there. They would need to speak German to attend university, of course, unless they were admitted to one of a small number of (highly competitive) English-language programs. See various recent threads here on similar topics.


Yes, Im not looking for welfare benefits, i want EU travel and work benefits for myself and possibly the kids, could make a nice summer vacation for them, working in some euro country while enjoying their summer.
Thanks.


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## Nononymous

I was using a strict definition of "benefits" then. 

Citizenship does not automatically pass down to children, but you can certainly explore this. Citizenship isn't that necessary for what you have in mind. They can travel up to 90 days without a visa, and it's not too difficult for Americans to stay on a bit longer in Germany under certain conditions. There may also be working-holiday programs for people under a certain age (there are for Canadians, not sure about the US). And, as mentioned, language is likely a far bigger barrier to higher education than citizenship, though my knowledge in this area is becoming quite dated.


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## bones774

Nononymous said:


> I was using a strict definition of "benefits" then.
> 
> Citizenship does not automatically pass down to children, but you can certainly explore this. Citizenship isn't that necessary for what you have in mind. They can travel up to 90 days without a visa, and it's not too difficult for Americans to stay on a bit longer in Germany under certain conditions. There may also be working-holiday programs for people under a certain age (there are for Canadians, not sure about the US). And, as mentioned, language is likely a far bigger barrier to higher education than citizenship, though my knowledge in this area is becoming quite dated.


Thanks for your info.


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## Nononymous

The point, really, is that while EU citizenship is great to have (I don't and I wish I did), it's also relatively easy to spend time living, working or studying in Germany if you're Canadian or American and have reasonable levels of language and/or skills and/or education.


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## bones774

Nononymous said:


> The point, really, is that while EU citizenship is great to have (I don't and I wish I did), it's also relatively easy to spend time living, working or studying in Germany if you're Canadian or American and have reasonable levels of language and/or skills and/or education.



I have a BA degree and I have 1/2 the credits needed towards my master degree, so I guess have some educational skills.


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## expatgal

bones774 said:


> I have a BA degree and I have 1/2 the credits needed towards my master degree, so I guess have some educational skills.


If your BA is transferrable and your Art 116 is accepted, you'll be able to work.
Would you consider completeing your masters in Germany?


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## bones774

expatgal said:


> If your BA is transferrable and your Art 116 is accepted, you'll be able to work.
> Would you consider completeing your masters in Germany?


The last time I attended school i said it would be the final time I went to school. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. I don't see gaining much by finishing my masters at this stage of the game. I have a pretty good resume as it is, have attended some of the best schools in my field, apart from a BA degree, i have many certificates too.

I probably should say that I would not move totally and completely but would like to spend large amounts of time and not worry about visas and such and maybe i can avoid the ugly american label with a foreign passport.


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## expatgal

*Good looking or ugly...*



bones774 said:


> The last time I attended school i said it would be the final time I went to school. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. I don't see gaining much by finishing my masters at this stage of the game. I have a pretty good resume as it is, have attended some of the best schools in my field, apart from a BA degree, i have many certificates too.
> 
> I probably should say that I would not move totally and completely but would like to spend large amounts of time and not worry about visas and such and maybe i can avoid the ugly american label with a foreign passport.


Too funny, good looking or ugly, an american is spotted a mile away. You'll need more than a foreign passport!


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## bones774

expatgal said:


> Too funny, good looking or ugly, an american is spotted a mile away. You'll need more than a foreign passport!



I'm hoping that enough time spent away from the states and the "ugly" part will wear off.


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