# Leaving UAE with debt...questions



## amerifren

Hi,

I am moving back the US and have a loan that I cannot pay in full prior to leaving. I would like to know, prior to talking to a bank, how I should go about this. I do not plan to do a runner as I plan to come back often, as some family is here. I am able to make repayments, but I don't know how it works.

1) I know that my last pay and gratuity will be taken, which is fine. It automatically go towards the loan balance, correct? Is it considered a lump sum payment or do they take it out monthly...so like would I have x amount of monthly payments already covered until the amount runs out?

2) Does anyone have any experience arranging to make payment with the bank? Is it pretty straightforward (could there ever be here?)? Will my account stay open so that I can transfer the payments into the account monthly? I have another account that I do not really use that isn't tied to my salary, can I keep this one open and make payments from a different bank account if needed?

3) Are there options to lower the payment? I can afford the payments as they currently are, but would prefer something lower. Should I wait until after I leave, pay for a bit, then try to renegotiate?

4) Have there been any stories of people repaying their debt, but still having problems getting into the country or being detained

5) Will I have any problems leaving the country if its not completely settled by the time I need to leave?

I'm just trying to get a sense of what's the way to go about the process. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Edited:

#6: It was suggested to me to not tell the bank I'm leaving as a person has 30 days to get another job. If my account is not frozen, could I not transfer the monthly payment from a different UAE account into the loan account every month? Thoughts?


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## Chocoholic

It really depends on your bank. The minute your final salary hits your account, with your employer telling them it's your final salary and gratuity, they WILL block your account because you have loans and or credit cards. There is no way around this.

Some banks will put the money aside and use as monthly payments, others will just take the entire lot towards one lump sum payment. I take it the amount you're due will not cover the debt 100%?

Banks are very VERY twitchy at the moment. I had friends leave and for 2 years they've been trying to repay their debt, the bank is totally unreasonable and even though my friends are literally offering them money, they won't listen, so they've given up.

I really had to advocate it, but I'd take the advice of leaving, then contacting them, as should they get a sniff that you're not looking for another job, it could cause all sorts of hassle.

I would ask your company - if they'll do it. To split your final payment in two. Ask them to personally give you one cheque which is your final salary, with any holiday etc owing and a second cheque which is the gratuity and send that to the bank. I did this. I also requested my company to delay paying in the gratuity cheque until I had my new visa etc sorted.


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## The Rascal

Chocoholic said:


> It really depends on your bank. The minute your final salary hits your account, with your employer telling them it's your final salary and gratuity, they WILL block your account because you have loans and or credit cards. There is no way around this.
> 
> Some banks will put the money aside and use as monthly payments, others will just take the entire lot towards one lump sum payment. I take it the amount you're due will not cover the debt 100%?
> 
> Banks are very VERY twitchy at the moment. I had friends leave and for 2 years they've been trying to repay their debt, the bank is totally unreasonable and even though my friends are literally offering them money, they won't listen, so they've given up.
> 
> I really had to advocate it, but I'd take the advice of leaving, then contacting them, as should they get a sniff that you're not looking for another job, it could cause all sorts of hassle.
> 
> I would ask your company - if they'll do it. To split your final payment in two. Ask them to personally give you one cheque which is your final salary, with any holiday etc owing and a second cheque which is the gratuity and send that to the bank. I did this. I also requested my company to delay paying in the gratuity cheque until I had my new visa etc sorted.


What choccy said.....


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## amerifren

Chocoholic said:


> It really depends on your bank. The minute your final salary hits your account, with your employer telling them it's your final salary and gratuity, they WILL block your account because you have loans and or credit cards. There is no way around this.
> 
> Some banks will put the money aside and use as monthly payments, others will just take the entire lot towards one lump sum payment. I take it the amount you're due will not cover the debt 100%?
> 
> Banks are very VERY twitchy at the moment. I had friends leave and for 2 years they've been trying to repay their debt, the bank is totally unreasonable and even though my friends are literally offering them money, they won't listen, so they've given up.
> 
> I really had to advocate it, but I'd take the advice of leaving, then contacting them, as should they get a sniff that you're not looking for another job, it could cause all sorts of hassle.
> 
> I would ask your company - if they'll do it. To split your final payment in two. Ask them to personally give you one cheque which is your final salary, with any holiday etc owing and a second cheque which is the gratuity and send that to the bank. I did this. I also requested my company to delay paying in the gratuity cheque until I had my new visa etc sorted.



Thanks for your replies.
I don't have a problem with the bank taking my final salary and gratuity. Its not a loss, its going towards what I owe. Fortunately, it won't hurt me financially as I have other income. 

Can you clarify what types of "hassles" you mean could happen if the bank knows I am not looking for employment in the UAE? Im also curious, why the bank would give your friends problems when they are repaying their loan...were they trying to pay less than what was owed?

I know my employer will not split my last pay and give me a check for the gratuity. I know they have an agreement with the bank that they will give them my last pay/gratuity. Again, I have no problem with this, they aren't just taking the money, its going toward repaying my debt. 

Anyone have any other thoughts/experience leaving then arranging repayment. Will I have any problem exiting the country or anything??


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## The Rascal

amerifren said:


> Thanks for your replies.
> I don't have a problem with the bank taking my final salary and gratuity. Its not a loss, its going towards what I owe. Fortunately, it won't hurt me financially as I have other income.
> 
> Can you clarify what types of "hassles" you mean could happen if the bank knows I am not looking for employment in the UAE? Im also curious, why the bank would give your friends problems when they are repaying their loan...were they trying to pay less than what was owed?
> 
> I know my employer will not split my last pay and give me a check for the gratuity. I know they have an agreement with the bank that they will give them my last pay/gratuity. Again, I have no problem with this, they aren't just taking the money, its going toward repaying my debt.
> 
> Anyone have any other thoughts/experience leaving then arranging repayment. Will I have any problem exiting the country or anything??


If you owe a bank and try to leave, they may well file a case against yoy for debt, so you will be stopped at the airport.

2 options, leave before or on the day of the final payment - that way the bank won't know and/or b) contact this woman :- Radha she'll sort out a proper repayment schedule for you. 
#
Emirates NBD hires debt collectors to chase expat defaulters in the US, UK - Banking & Finance - ArabianBusiness.com


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## Chocoholic

Sadly many banks won't allow you to leave until you've paid off the full amount.

As for my friends, they tried to negotiate payment plans but the banks were demanding the entire lot - theirs is a complicated tale, but not an uncommon one.

As for the debt collectors, all they can do is chase you and threaten you, they don't actually have any legal recourse - from what I've been told anyway.

One worker at a well known bank actually told me, he doesn't blame people for doing runners and leaving debt, purely because the banks make it so hard to pay back if you're not in country.


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## ttdubai

I do not have any loan here, and I do not know about the loan system in the UAE, but I am just curious to know what is written in the loan agreement regarding end of employment/leaving the country?

And: How would a bank or the authorities differentiate between normal travel (holiday, business travel etc) and being on the run? Can anybody explain?


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## The Rascal

You think that because something is or isn't written in the ts & cs makes a bank stick to them and not do other tactics?

The naivety is amazing.


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## Racing_Goats

ttdubai said:


> I do not have any loan here, and I do not know about the loan system in the UAE, but I am just curious to know what is written in the loan agreement regarding end of employment/leaving the country?
> 
> And: How would a bank or the authorities differentiate between normal travel (holiday, business travel etc) and being on the run? Can anybody explain?


In most cases employers will inform banks if a salary payment is a final payment, eg the employee is leaving their current job. 

If the leaver has outstanding debts to the bank it is fairly common for the bank to freeze the account(s) and credit card(s) and possibly cash a guarantee cheque which (if it bounced) would allow the bank to report to police and impose a travel ban. There may be other ways for banks to flag someone as having a bad debt and prevent them travelling, not sure about that.

I've only had one job in UAE but friends who have moved jobs have been required to submit contract for a new job and proof of new residency application to their bank in order to unfreeze their account.

This is one reason why many expats keep a salary account with one bank and a separate bank account, or credit cards from another bank, so they can avoid the impact of a frozen account and all access to funds and credit stopped - any banks not connected to salary payment won't be informed of a change in visa or employment circumstances.


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## twowheelsgood

amerifren said:


> ........... as I plan to come back often, as some family is here.


But presumably not a good enough family connection for them to take out a loan, repay your debt and then you owe them ?

As the bank might say, "yeah, you would say that you were going to return as all bad debtors say that .....", which is true.


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## The Rascal

twowheelsgood said:


> But presumably not a good enough family connection for them to take out a loan, repay your debt and then you owe them ?
> 
> As the bank might say, "yeah, you would say that you were going to return as all bad debtors say that .....", which is true.


If only everyone was as perfect as you.


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## twowheelsgood

The Rascal said:


> If only everyone was as perfect as you.


I don't have anything to do with it other than in your fevered desire to insult people.

The Op wants to leave without paying his debts and leave his family here unaffected, and promises to repay. Whats my state of perfection, or otherwise, got to do with it ?


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## Mr Rossi

twowheelsgood said:


> Whats my state of perfection, or otherwise, got to do with it ?


I'm sure Rascal will pipe up sooner rather than later but I'd take a guess at the judgmental, passive aggressive tone you answer just about every thread with.


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## Nursemanit

If you can not pay off a debt while getting a major tax break working in the UAE , the bank is not going to be reassured that you will be able to pay it when you are paying US taxes. Once you leave they have no real way to collect , so they will make it very hard to leave. Unless you are out of a job and can not find another you would be much better staying in the UAE.


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## amerifren

Mr Rossi said:


> I'm sure Rascal will pipe up sooner rather than later but I'd take a guess at the judgmental, passive aggressive tone you answer just about every thread with.


I was going to respond, but good point..


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## amerifren

Chocoholic said:


> Sadly many banks won't allow you to leave until you've paid off the full amount.
> 
> As for my friends, they tried to negotiate payment plans but the banks were demanding the entire lot - theirs is a complicated tale, but not an uncommon one.
> 
> As for the debt collectors, all they can do is chase you and threaten you, they don't actually have any legal recourse - from what I've been told anyway.
> 
> One worker at a well known bank actually told me, he doesn't blame people for doing runners and leaving debt, purely because the banks make it so hard to pay back if you're not in country.


I think the most shocking thing I've learned is that banks would make it hard for you to repay from outside the UAE. I really just can't understand that. It just seems like you have to be sneaky when you want to do things the right way.


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## amerifren

Racing_Goats said:


> In most cases employers will inform banks if a salary payment is a final payment, eg the employee is leaving their current job.
> 
> If the leaver has outstanding debts to the bank it is fairly common for the bank to freeze the account(s) and credit card(s) and possibly cash a guarantee cheque which (if it bounced) would allow the bank to report to police and impose a travel ban. There may be other ways for banks to flag someone as having a bad debt and prevent them travelling, not sure about that.
> 
> I've only had one job in UAE but friends who have moved jobs have been required to submit contract for a new job and proof of new residency application to their bank in order to unfreeze their account.
> 
> This is one reason why many expats keep a salary account with one bank and a separate bank account, or credit cards from another bank, so they can avoid the impact of a frozen account and all access to funds and credit stopped - any banks not connected to salary payment won't be informed of a change in visa or employment circumstances.



Good point about the separate accounts. As for a contract and residency application as proof, I could possibly do it this way. I could get another visa use a different UAE account to transfer the payments into the loan account. Again, as I said previously, it seems like in order to do this right I can't be upfront with the banks. I wouldn't actually be in the country, but once the visa expires they wouldn't necessarily know that I am not here, unless for some reason they are able to open a police file (I guess:confused2.


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## Chocoholic

amerifren said:


> I think the most shocking thing I've learned is that banks would make it hard for you to repay from outside the UAE. I really just can't understand that. It just seems like you have to be sneaky when you want to do things the right way.


Oh I know!

I have several bank accounts with a couple of different banks for exactly these reasons. When I changed job, I did everything above board, made sure my new visa was in my passport, all paperwork taken and copied by the bank and they STILL froze my cards. Boy did I tear them a new one over that fiasco.

One of the biggest pieces of advice I can give you, is DON'T talk to the customer service morons, as they literally just read from a script of standard answers. You need the personal contact details of a decision maker who can deal with you personally.

I was very lucky that after I let fly on social media, someone did contact me, gave me his personal mobile and email and dealt with everything for me. Getting hold of the right person is half the battle.


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## Chocoholic

Nursemanit said:


> If you can not pay off a debt while getting a major tax break working in the UAE , the bank is not going to be reassured that you will be able to pay it when you are paying US taxes.


Wow judgmental much? Life's not a bed of roses and people can't always afford to pay everything up front -rent in one cheque ring a bell?


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## Stevesolar

amerifren said:


> I think the most shocking thing I've learned is that banks would make it hard for you to repay from outside the UAE. I really just can't understand that. It just seems like you have to be sneaky when you want to do things the right way.


Hi,
Sneaky no - but carefully planned YES!
The banks (rightly) are very nervous when people leave the UAE with outstanding debts.
They have probably heard many people tell them that they will continue to repay debts when overseas - for those people to forget to pay once the UAE is but a distant memory!
It is also the fact that it is quite difficult (but not impossible) for the banks to recover money from people who are overseas - that they try to grab as much back whilst people are still here and within the clutches of UAE debt laws.
It is for these reasons that the banks here will instantly freeze accounts and credit cards the moment they come to know you don't have a valid residency visa - and won't release these frozen funds until you provide them a copy of a new visa.
Best of luck
Steve


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## Chocoholic

Stevesolar said:


> It is for these reasons that the banks here will instantly freeze accounts and credit cards the moment they come to know you don't have a valid residency visa - and won't release these frozen funds until you provide them a copy of a new visa.
> Best of luck
> Steve


Not strictly true. Account freezing only happens in you have a loan or credit cards with outstanding amounts. UAE Central Bank actually made it illegal for banks to freeze accounts when a final payment goes in, if there's nothing outstanding.


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## Stevesolar

Chocoholic said:


> Not strictly true. Account freezing only happens in you have a loan or credit cards with outstanding amounts. UAE Central Bank actually made it illegal for banks to freeze accounts when a final payment goes in, if there's nothing outstanding.


Agreed - but as the subject we were talking about was leaving the UAE with debt - that was a given!


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## Nursemanit

Chocoholic said:


> Wow judgmental much? Life's not a bed of roses and people can't always afford to pay everything up front -rent in one cheque ring a bell?


Where is the judgement in that ? It is simple arithmetic, moving to the US will most likely cause someone to lose up to 30% of their take home salary. That factor alone will make a loan officer not want to be forgiving when you leave the country.


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