# unlawful use of chain saw - 6 years in jail



## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

I sought a Tree trimming business in my area to trim many trees in our titled compound. None existed.

I finally found a guy who owns a chainsaw through a friend of a friend. I offered him work to trim the trees. His reply was no, that he didn't want to go to prison because it's not registered.  

Over 490 unregistered chainsaws now under PNP's custody

https://pia.gov.ph/news/articles/1032459

Interesting law to know before you get involved with the use of, or ownership of a chainsaw in the PI.

https://pcsd.gov.ph/igov/republic-act-no-9175-regulating-ownership/


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## Tukaram (Dec 18, 2014)

That is why I gave my chainsaw away before moving here. I knew I was not going to register it, and would not use it unregistered.


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## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Hey_Joe said:


> I sought a Tree trimming business in my area to trim many trees in our titled compound. None existed.
> 
> I finally found a guy who owns a chainsaw through a friend of a friend. I offered him work to trim the trees. His reply was no, that he didn't want to go to prison because it's not registered.
> 
> ...


That's interesting but makes sense... wow so maybe I won't buy a chain saw after all.


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## Rwestgate (Jan 29, 2019)

I had planned to also plus one for Tatay


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## greenstreak1946 (May 28, 2017)

WOW! That is a good ideal to register chainsaws. Maybe the ones in Brazil cutting down the rain forest would be less if they had to register them or go to jail.

art


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## Nickleback99 (Aug 6, 2011)

Well, having watched All of Narcos and Narcos Mexico on Netflix, plus Scar Face before, I'm glad there aren't so many of 'em! ...They have too many nefarious uses!


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Well Joe as always making us aware of the pitfalls of living here, ty.
We had a contractor remove a huge acacia tree as well as some smaller ones last year and we did the deal through our Barangay Capitan. I sent a chainsaw in a Balakbayan box earlier this year and have been using it to cut down all large prickle trees on our titled lot as well as our tax declared block down to the ocean of some 800M2. The Capitan is aware as we asked his permission and no one has said anything about the chainsaw and if it is registered.
Looks like another stint with bureaucracy for Ben. Thanks for the heads up.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Tim_L (Jul 14, 2018)

Wow, just when I thought that I had heard it all here. &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Tim_L said:


> Wow, just when I thought that I had heard it all here. ������


Joe is the man in the ground and continues to amaze a google freak like myself finding such things.
Not that I see it in the act but what is the law/requirements for residential home owners, I assume it's the same? Ben said just then "no that is for commercial/business use" and I said the act does not say that,,,,,,,,, the mind boggles at what locals think are the laws and the "actual law" a lot like BB guns or a bolo and the list goes on.

Off topic, Joe any idea where to buy tinned beetroot around the SFC La Union area? I have found it available online but 5 times the price we pay in Oz.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

Hey_Joe said:


> I sought a Tree trimming business in my area to trim many trees in our titled compound. None existed.
> 
> I finally found a guy who owns a chainsaw through a friend of a friend. I offered him work to trim the trees. His reply was no, that he didn't want to go to prison because it's not registered.
> 
> ...


*JUST SO YOU KNOW...*this is a great post, (thanks Hey_Joe for bringing it to our attention), because the Philippines; as well as a lot of other countries; have quite a few strange laws we all need to be aware of...

We should all practice following the local laws whether we agree with the laws or not; particularly since many of us on this Forum are foreigners...no sense in getting ourselves into unnecessary situations! *HOWEVER*...with that being said...this is *NOT* as alarming as many might think. So, I am here to clarify...

I purchased, currently own and possess 2 chainsaws on my property and use them regularly without any problems. I just had to take them down to the local DENR Office, (Department of Environment and Natural Resources), and submit them for inspection and apply for a permit, (couple of hundred pesos), and tell them that I am NOT going to cut down trees or otherwise become involved with illegal logging activities...

The guy you offered work to only refused for one and only one reason...just as you stated in your original post...*"He is NOT registered".*

That's it...the shop that will sell you a chainsaw will even tell you how to register your chainsaw as they are required by law to inform you. The Philippines is simply trying to stop the illegal harvesting of protected forested areas. Too many people were going out and cutting down trees in protected areas and selling the lumber for profit...but the trees were not theirs to cut down...hence the laws requiring the registration of all chainsaws.

The law is not intended to stop you or deter you from owning or using a chainsaw!

And simply trimming trees that are located on your own property is not included in the law. You can trim your trees any time you like.

The registration process took only a few minutes and they looked at and inspected the chainsaws and recorded the serial numbers and that was it...I went home and continued using my chainsaws. The local government units, (Barangays and Municipalities), in my area have even contacted me to help clear fallen trees after a typhoon or bad storm because they all know I have the chainsaws and many of them do not have their own chainsaws.

The Philippines; like most other countries; are not trying to stop good honest people from doing any particular task...they are just making the best attempt they can to try and stop illegal activities that eventually hurt us all in the long run.


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

bigpearl said:


> Joe is the man in the ground and continues to amaze a google freak like myself finding such things.
> Not that I see it in the act but what is the law/requirements for residential home owners, I assume it's the same? Ben said just then "no that is for commercial/business use" and I said the act does not say that,,,,,,,,, the mind boggles at what locals think are the laws and the "actual law" a lot like BB guns or a bolo and the list goes on.
> 
> Off topic, Joe any idea where to buy tinned beetroot around the SFC La Union area? I have found it available online but 5 times the price we pay in Oz.
> ...


You are correct bigpearl...the Act does not specifically say whether it covers homeowners or not nor does it say it is only for commercial or business activities but that is implied and it does ALWAYS refer to the illegal cutting and illegal harvesting of trees or the professional business of cutting trees for resale. It is like many other laws...the person who wrote the law was not necessarily very articulate in explaining exactly what they meant. As I am not a legal council or advisor in this matter and I am in no way pretending to be, so I would suggest that you visit your local DENR Office and they will tell you exactly what you need to know regarding the purchase and ownership or use of a chainsaw in the Philippines.

What I was told and have since found out...this Act applys only to people involved in illegal logging or businesses involved in the professional legal harvesting of trees for resale as lumber or timber and does not apply to homeowners.


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

bigpearl said:


> Joe is the man in the ground and continues to amaze a google freak like myself finding such things.
> Not that I see it in the act but what is the law/requirements for residential home owners, I assume it's the same? Ben said just then "no that is for commercial/business use" and I said the act does not say that,,,,,,,,, the mind boggles at what locals think are the laws and the "actual law" a lot like BB guns or a bolo and the list goes on.
> 
> Off topic, Joe any idea where to buy tinned beetroot around the SFC La Union area? I have found it available online but 5 times the price we pay in Oz.
> ...


*FOR CLARIFICATION...*

I went back over the entire Act and re-read every word of it and it is actually pretty clear. No, it does not ever specifically mention private homeowners because they ARE NOT involved in commercial activities or illegal logging.

*SECTION 2*...it clearly says that the purpose of this Act is to pursue an aggressive forest protection program geared towards eliminating illegal logging...(not private homeowner use).

*SECTION 5*...clearly lists only professional businesses that typically use chainsaws for implementation or production of forest or agro-forest products and fruit tree farmers...(no mention of private homeowners).

*SECTION 6*...clearly says that the DENR shall issue any permit to any person for the legal use of any chainsaw...(no exclusion for private homeowners).

Every part of this Act clearly discusses the elimination of illegal logging activity and specifically addresses any commercial businesses who might use a chainsaw remotely associated with any commercial logging activity or tree farming and therefore removes private homeowners from the Act, (who are not involved in these types of activities).

YES, to make it more clear, they should have simply included a clause discussing use by private homeowners just to avoid any possible confusion but they are certainly very clear about who this Act does cover even though they neglected to mention who the Act does not cover.

As I mentioned before, I had no problem registering my 2 chainsaws, (one little small one and one really BIG one), and my certificates of registration expire in five years from the date of registration, (still 3 and a half years to go), because I fell under Non-Commercial use and using them for private homeowner use only.

The easiest thing to do is if you currently own or wish to purchase a chainsaw...just go to your local community DENR Office and get it registered and there will be no problems with having a chainsaw in the Philippines.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

bigpearl said:


> Off topic, Joe any idea where to buy tinned beetroot around the SFC La Union area? I have found it available online but 5 times the price we pay in Oz.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


Just a quick foray offf topic. We have bought a glass jar of beetroot and I've seen them loose in S&R San Fernando Pampanga. They are called sweetbeets in the Philippines.


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## Tukaram (Dec 18, 2014)

bigpearl said:


> Well Joe as always making us aware of the pitfalls of living here, ty.
> We had a contractor remove a huge acacia tree as well as some smaller ones last year and we did the deal through our Barangay Capitan. I sent a chainsaw in a Balakbayan box earlier this year and have been using it to cut down all large prickle trees on our titled lot as well as our tax declared block down to the ocean of some 800M2. The Capitan is aware as we asked his permission and no one has said anything about the chainsaw and if it is registered.
> Looks like another stint with bureaucracy for Ben. Thanks for the heads up.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


I remember reading about it somewhere, back in 2011 when I was planning my move. Not sure where I read it. Wherever it was also talked about pocket knives being illegal here. Odd for me, being from Texas, and an HVAC contractor. I always had a knife with me. I did bring a couple of my knives, but they now live in my desk drawer. Not sure if my Gerber multi-tool would count as a "knife" or a "tool". It stays in the desk drawer as well...


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Tukaram said:


> ..... Not sure if my Gerber multi-tool would count as a "knife" or a "tool". It stays in the desk drawer as well...


There was a thread here back when I first joined, 2015 or so, about a foreigner who took his swiss army knife out of his pocket at a mall to use the tweeters to remove a splinter. He was seen by a guard and things escalated and he was deported.

I had carried a pocket knife or multi tool since I was about 11 years old. I do not carry it here but I have a back pack that i use to go diving and have it in there.

The law is you need a lawful purpose. I can claim that it is in case I need to do some repairs to my dive kit, others have said they were planning on buying some fruit and needed the knife to cut it.

If you have a multi tool and a ready plausible excuse for it you should not get into trouble. However I prefer to error on the side of caution on these things and no longer have it as an every day carry item.

I also heard recently that a passenger on a flight out of Cebu City had a small pocket knife in his checked in luggage and it was discovered on x-ray and he had it confiscated. (Flight was pandemic and I just heard of it in a general discussion.)


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## Tukaram (Dec 18, 2014)

Yeah, we were instructed to tell the Mexican immigration that our dive knives were 'dive tools'. It was strapped to the BC, but was definitely a knife. If we called it a tool, they would let it pass... knives got confiscated ha ha 

Here I just do not carry any kind of blade.


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

Cebu Citizen said:


> *FOR CLARIFICATION...*
> 
> I went back over the entire Act and re-read every word of it and it is actually pretty clear. No, it does not ever specifically mention private homeowners because they ARE NOT involved in commercial activities or illegal logging. *all persons* who own or are otherwise in possession of chainsaws must register the same with the Department
> 
> ...


I read it differently and posted in blue to your quote. "All" to me means "everyone" including homeowners. Notice and/or in section 2. 

You mentioned your permit is for 5 years. Are you a non-commercial orchard or fruit tree farmer?

Since this topic drifted into "Tree Cutting". This is a good article.
https://businessmirror.com.ph/2019/10/14/planning-to-cut-down-a-tree-think-again/

For Region 1 where I live, we are supposed to follow this if we want to "cut' a tree, even if it's on titled, private land.

https://r1.denr.gov.ph/index.php/69-frontline-services/forest-management/349-tree-cutting-permit 

Something to ponder is that WILCON bought Titled Land in our area and broke ground June 2020. https://www.facebook.com/bauanglaunionofficial/photos/pcb.10157102268798204/10157102268623204/?type=3&theater The gossip is they can't proceed with construction because they have no permit to cut down the Acacia Trees (own land they own). 

From Section 68 of PD 705 - Any person who shall cut, gather, collect, or remove timber or other forest products from any forest land, or timber from alienable and disposable public lands, or from private lands, without any authority under a license agreement, lease, license or permit, shall be guilty of qualified theft 
https://lawphil.net/statutes/presdecs/pd1975/pd_705_1975.html

Regarding; "any person" (private land owner) would be guilty of theft if they cut down a tree on their private land unless it's under a license agreement, lease, license or permit. Who would they be stealing from?


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

You can't just go around cutting trees down even if they are on your property. We have a stand of mahogany on our land and no way are we allowed to cut them down, you need a permit to cut any tree that can be used for timber, even coconuts.


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## Hey_Joe (Sep 13, 2016)

Gary D said:


> You can't just go around cutting trees down even if they are on your property. We have a stand of mahogany on our land and no way are we allowed to cut them down, you need a permit to cut any tree that can be used for timber, even coconuts.


A Palm Beetle and it's larvae bore a hole the top of one of our Fox Palms at our beach lot. It could no longer produce palms so we asked asked the brgy Captain could we cut it down & replace it with a hard bark palm and he said no, that it was still alive. After elections we asked the new Brgy Captain & he gave permission.


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## Tukaram (Dec 18, 2014)

Hey_Joe said:


> A Palm Beetle and it's larvae bore a hole the top of one of our Fox Palms at our beach lot. It could no longer produce palms so we asked asked the brgy Captain could we cut it down & replace it with a hard bark palm and he said no, that it was still alive. After elections we asked the new Brgy Captain & he gave permission.


That is more power than most Brgy Capts should have ha ha Honestly that should be handled by a department that knows the law, and has had training.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Tukaram said:


> That is more power than most Brgy Capts should have ha ha Honestly that should be handled by a department that knows the law, and has had training.


Yes but you should know many barangay captains have an over inflated opinion of their worth.


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Manitoba said:


> I also heard recently that a passenger on a flight out of Cebu City had a small pocket knife in his checked in luggage and it was discovered on x-ray and he had it confiscated. (Flight was pandemic and I just heard of it in a general discussion.)


For about 10 years or so I kept in my billfold a small credit card sized fold up knife. Went thru inspections going into & out of Aus, US, Korea, Japan, & Philippines multiple times each way. Was confiscated last fall going on a domestic flight from Manila to Iloilo. Still carry a small fold up knife attached to my key ring, which has also been on my person (and thru all the same inspections) for many years. 

Fred


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

fmartin_gila said:


> .... Still carry a small fold up knife attached to my key ring, which has also been on my person (and thru all the same inspections) for many years.
> 
> Fred


When I ran my own business I had some of those as giveaways with the company name on it, only cost me a couple bucks each when buying in bulk.

I lost several at airports in Canada and the US. Often went on a dozen flights, then suddenly no not allowed. Next time allowed at the same airport.


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

Hey_Joe said:


> I read it differently and posted in blue to your quote. "All" to me means "everyone" including homeowners. Notice and/or in section 2.
> 
> You mentioned your permit is for 5 years. Are you a non-commercial orchard or fruit tree farmer?
> 
> ...


Yes, I am a Non-Commercial tree grower but not fruit trees...I have about 15 cashew trees and just started planting some macadamia trees just for personal use, experimenting, messing around with something to do types of trees and to be safe we went and had our chainsaws registered with DENR and they did it for 5 years. They have never given us any hassles.

About the conversations about having small knives...it's crazy...we cannot carry a small knife in our pocket but we can walk around carrying an 18 inch or 22 inch bolo knife to use as a work tool. But maybe as was mentioned above...if we call it a knife...can't possess it...but call it a tool and it's OK!


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gary D said:


> Yes but you should know many barangay captains have an over inflated opinion of their worth.


When push comes to shove it is our word against the theirs but to date all good. When the fit hits the shan I am sure the/all Barngay Capitans will deny any knowledge of their mis givings. Better as seen here to go down the hierarchal road nip the problems in the butt. Boring but that's the nature of the beast here.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Scott E (Jun 1, 2015)

bigpearl said:


> Well Joe as always making us aware of the pitfalls of living here, ty.
> We had a contractor remove a huge acacia tree as well as some smaller ones last year and we did the deal through our Barangay Capitan. I sent a chainsaw in a Balakbayan box earlier this year and have been using it to cut down all large prickle trees on our titled lot as well as our tax declared block down to the ocean of some 800M2. The Capitan is aware as we asked his permission and no one has said anything about the chainsaw and if it is registered.
> Looks like another stint with bureaucracy for Ben. Thanks for the heads up.
> 
> Cheers, Steve.


Captain has nothing to do with it ,, and if you get in trouble he may not help ...
You need to go visit a "CENRO" (div of the DENR) .. No big deal with them, just don't tell them "What you have already done" !! Just inquire there and you can get all the info and required permits ,, Mostly inexpensive Php 500 for a chainsaw,, Then inquire about Salvage Permits for your property, and clearing permits (Biggy) !!
My experience was this: I bought a chainsaw at an american suplus seller at a huge discount. Needed parts to make it run, so I went on E-bay and got another same model chainsaw listed as "not running for parts". It was promptly confiscated by the BOC as a "Restricted" item, until I could supply the correct permit/registration. I got it sorted and found out all the other info ,, Not so inconvienient more of a delay, and other items were in the shipment !!

Regads ,, Scott E


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

The intension of the law is GOO because illegal loggiing is a huge problem in the Philippines.


Cebu Citizen said:


> *FOR CLARIFICATION...*
> I went back over the entire Act and re-read every word of it and it is actually pretty clear. No, it does not ever specifically mention private homeowners because they ARE NOT involved in commercial activities or illegal logging.


 Not SPECIALY mensioned, but aren't private homeowners INCLUDED in the rules? 
Because any chainsaw can become involved in illegal logging 
So I GUESS all chainsaws have to be registered,

- -
Concerning permit. As said it has to be from SENRO (DENR) not from baranggay captain. The common ones cost just litle for a big logging too.

A farmer got a few trees at their farmland cut down to get space for a new home. They got INVESTIGATED and handler thought of giving them a few thousand pesos fine (which is much for them). But I don't know how it ended by we lost contact.


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## Cebu Citizen (Dec 13, 2013)

Lunkan said:


> The intension of the law is GOO because illegal loggiing is a huge problem in the Philippines.
> 
> Not SPECIALY mensioned, but aren't private homeowners INCLUDED in the rules?
> Because any chainsaw can become involved in illegal logging
> ...


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

>Cebu Citizen
That's a good idea I can want to copy, but not to close as Filipinos do it 

but with the difference paying a regular employee to do the body work  My knees have done more sports than they could handle, so I can't do body work anymore myself anyway.

But if I get time after own business is up and running, I plan to assist poor people with some not body work by some Help-to-self-help projects. The such projects aid organisation Hand-in-Hand told me they want me to call them when I'm in place in Phils ready to start handling such projects for them, and perhaps I will do such volotary work for a similar American organisation too. If I get work permit for it...


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Lunkan said:


> >Cebu Citizen
> That's a good idea I can want to copy, but not to close as Filipinos do it
> 
> but with the difference paying a regular employee to do the body work  My knees have done more sports than they could handle, so I can't do body work anymore myself anyway.
> ...


What part of PH. are you heading to Lunkan to achieve your goals?

Cheers, Steve.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Cebu Citizen said:


> .....
> 
> ! It makes you become friends with everyone real quick...(1)-you cleared the road and got transportation moving...(2)-you assisted the local Municipality and Barangay...and (3)- you helped your neighbors with free wood!
> 
> A WIN-WIN situation...




(4) You got to play with your chainsaw.


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## Lunkan (Aug 28, 2020)

bigpearl said:


> What part of PH. are you heading to Lunkan to achieve your goals?


I had several favorites earlier - but NOT Palawan by it's locate some "off". Bigest favorite was NE Bohol. BUT then I saw a map showing locations of earthquakes and all my earlier favorites fell  
It don't help to build strong if the house fall into a pothole as they got e g at Bohol by an earthquake. Plan is to build living place and business for generations ahead, so it's extra important to try to avoid nature break it.

Among the main islands Palawan is the only one without earthquakes. Few hurricanes too. So I have changed my mind to sure Palawan. And sure AWAY from the tourist parts  Partly depening of it's more developing there and I want to be away from neighbours plus land cost much less if avoiding tourists's favorites and Puerto Princesa city. And I can get extra cheap by I like inland more than beach 
A disadvantage though with Palawan it's so long and narrow so there are long distances.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Gary D said:


> Just a quick foray offf topic. We have bought a glass jar of beetroot and I've seen them loose in S&R San Fernando Pampanga. They are called sweetbeets in the Philippines.


LOL, some time later Gary and also off topic but found this looking for previous posts,,,,, this one on chain saw laws.
Since your help here we buy local beetroot and I peel, boil for a couple to 3 hours with a tad of vinegar, salt, cracked pepper and a lot of sugar, honestly? Better than the canned stuff but more work, I have also roasted them successfully but boil for an hour before the roasting pan. Got my beetroot and fills in time through the lock down. Thanks and my bad not touching base sooner.

Cheers, Steve.


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