# Fights in the street!



## northwestlads (Sep 19, 2010)

Well folks, we finally made it a few weeks ago, and safely got to spain. Found a flat to rent about 10 minutes from benidorm and its lovely so thank for all the help and advice on here. Also got a job sorted out too which was a stroke of luck but like some of you have said its always best to talk in bars.

I was shocked at the weekend though, i went to benidorm for a night out and was horrified to see a fight with about 6 or 7 lads in the street. I never seen trouble before and the opinion of people on here always tend to be spain is safer than the uk but is it? I mean these lads were beating seven bells out of a spanish lad and what shocked me more was that the spanish lad retaliated and gave one of them a pasting too (something to do with his girlfriend but i couldnt make it out). luckily after a minute or two the police arrived and split them up - but the questions remains, if spain any safer than the uk or do people here wear rose tinted specs and believe it is safer because they want to?

i even saw two spanish old women walking their dogs yesterday and they were having a right verbal set to in the street about something!

Is voilence normal in spain to this level? also what do people know about petty crime, car break ins, flat break ins etc... in peoples experiences is it really any better than in the uk or not?

What i saw at the weekend shocked me, it really would be interesting to get the opinion of you guys with your experince - is spain safer than the Uk? when you go out for a drink are you just as likely to run into trouble as in the Uk?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

It probably depends where you go.
I've seen videos of Bristol at the weekend (which is near where my family live) that are a disgrace. And Weston Super grot spot Mare has it's fair share of sleaze and violence, but I'm sure you can live in either place and see nothing.
Same here. I live about 30 KM out of Madrid. Sometimes things happen. A boy was stabbed here a few years ago. There has been the occasional incident at night, but I think that's "normal" for a big town. My 16 year old daughter walks around with no problems.
I don't know much about Benidorm, I've been through it a couple of times, but I think that there are certain areas that attract that kind of behaviour and also that at least 50% of the time it's Brits who are the instigators!! I also know for a fact there are beautiful places in and around Benidorm (the castle at Guadalest for example, beautiful views)
So perhaps it was just that you were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and you need to get used to your new location.
As for the two women...
I used to get really uncomfortable walking around. Everyone seemed to be arguing, shouting and waving their hands around. BUT they are usually just having a good old chinwag. Even if they are arguing it normally doesn't go any further. The Spanish are DEFINITELY louder than us.
Hope you get used to your new life soon.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I live in a society where crime is less than the U.K. far far less!

Look at the parked cars, you will the keys left in the ignition and often the engines running. I have been here on and off for fifteen years, I have never witnessed a fight.

I have never seen a house with a burglar alarm fitted, however some of the businesses do have them.

At weekends we do occasionally get minor vandalism and sometimes graffiti, but this is rare.

Now the reason for no crime maybe that there are only three possible four English residents on the island, the vast majority here are natives. I asked a man once, "Are there any criminals here?" he replied, with a huge grin on his face " No, of course not, any that we do catch, we send them to Tenerife,"

However I am only commenting about the island where I live.

Hepa


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Sadly, what I have found is that in places where there is a high density of Brits, there seem to be more fights. It seems we come over here to escape the street violence but end up bringing it with us!

To stereotype the Spanish, they are very loud, verbal and passionate. They do shout and argue, but it seems to stop there. They also laugh, sing and talk loudly, even their dogs bark loudly lol. Spain is a loud country!

Jo xxx


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

The way you refer to a number of men and a "spanish lad" sounds almost to me like it was brits (or other "foreigners") having the fight with one spanish chap! In benidorm this would not surprise me. I have to say I rarely see fights in benidorm (or anywhere else) but when I do they are normally instigated by brits (which is sad and embarresing).

Crime here is without a doubt far far lower than in the UK. When I lived in Manchester (in a nice area) I had my car broken into 3 times. Here, as Hepa said, people often leave keys in cars and nothing happens. Crime is increasing here thanks to imigrants but the Spanish are generally not a fighting race like the brits.

Earlier in the year I went to the UK and visited a few bars in the evening. The nightclubs (and even many bars) all had seciruty "heavies" on the doors, armed police in the streets etc. On Saturday I went with my OH and some Spanish friends to a discoteca/salsa type club. There were people there of all ages, from 18 ish to pensioners, all having a great time, enjoying the amosphere. No fights, no trouble, and nobody in the toilets snorting class a drugs!

I have said it before countless times and will always say it, I always feel safe in Spain. In benidorm and oher toursty places you have to be vigilent but it isn't the spanish you need to be careful of!

As for the two ladies aruging in the street - they were probably just having a friendly converstion about where is best to buy bread - they really do look like they are arguing when often they are just talking - its their way!

Anyway I am woffling - but to summarise, I leave my front door unlocked all day (like my granny used to do in the day jaja), i only lock it to go to bed. Yes crime happens - EVERYWHERE - you will never avoid crime but compared to the UK(certainly some of the areas I have lived and worked in) I think you are very safe in Spain. Benidorm, just like many other touristy places will have crime but its still so low and the police are always there very fast if anything happens. It would be interesting to know what nationality the guys in the fight were?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

northwestlads said:


> Well folks, we finally made it a few weeks ago, and safely got to spain. Found a flat to rent about 10 minutes from benidorm and its lovely so thank for all the help and advice on here. Also got a job sorted out too which was a stroke of luck but like some of you have said its always best to talk in bars.
> 
> I was shocked at the weekend though, i went to benidorm for a night out and was horrified to see a fight with about 6 or 7 lads in the street. I never seen trouble before and the opinion of people on here always tend to be spain is safer than the uk but is it? I mean these lads were beating seven bells out of a spanish lad and what shocked me more was that the spanish lad retaliated and gave one of them a pasting too (something to do with his girlfriend but i couldnt make it out). luckily after a minute or two the police arrived and split them up - but the questions remains, if spain any safer than the uk or do people here wear rose tinted specs and believe it is safer because they want to?
> 
> ...


It really does depend where you are. Benidorm and places like it, where young Brits go to drink themselves stupid (which for some reason they define as having a good time) are definitely not typical of Spain. Most Spanish people stay well away from such places.

Spanish people do raise their voices at each other a lot, but it rarely ends up in violence. There is domestic violence against women, but that usually takes place behind closed doors. Theft with violence is rare except where drug addicts are involved, sadly an increasingly common phenomenon.

Petty pilfering happens everywhere, but more so in big cities, as you'd expect. I live in a village where everyone knows everybody else and there is virtually no serious crime, but I wouldn't go out and leave my door unlocked. My friend had his garden gnomes nicked (no s******ing please!), and on a couple of occasions fires have been started in rubbish bins.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Ooh er, the famous forum filter has blotted out the word S N I G G E R I N G! I wonder if it will let me say tittering?


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Ooh er, the famous forum filter has blotted out the word S N I G G E R I N G! I wonder if it will let me say tittering?


Some how it is blocking the Ñ enyey and the % percent sign,


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## mattferrier (Oct 18, 2010)

i dont wish to sound out of order. but i'm shocked that you were shocked to see a druken fight in benidorm. as wtih all places in the world i'm sure there will be good and bad parts there.
i'm from watford so seeing the drunken fights at the end of the night was a certainty.
and the general rule is if you want to stay away from hassle then drink in pricier places. as certain people who are trying to drink as much as they can as cheaply as possible, will be less likely to be in there so there should be less trouble.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

I'm afraid it's a sad fact that Benidorm is basically split into two parts. I go there from time to time and stay with friends who rent a front line apartment on the South Beach area, somewhere near The Coach and Horses (its owned and run by a Spaniard!). In fact I was there for the night last week on the last day of the fiesta watching the firework display.

Basically when we go there I only stay on the South side, and in the old town. We dont go to where the British Pubs are because the last time I did, we saw two women fighting in the middle of the street. Why would anyone want to go and spend their time playing bingo at the Red Lion.

Anyway, the "better" part of Benidorm is Poniente. In the summer it's where the Spanish seem to hang out. If you want to see people throwing up in the street go to the Levante


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Stravinsky said:


> I'm afraid it's a sad fact that Benidorm is basically split into two parts. I go there from time to time and stay with friends who rent a front line apartment on the South Beach area, somewhere near The Coach and Horses (its owned and run by a Spaniard!). In fact I was there for the night last week on the last day of the fiesta watching the firework display.
> 
> Basically when we go there I only stay on the South side, and in the old town. We dont go to where the British Pubs are because the last time I did, we saw two women fighting in the middle of the street. Why would anyone want to go and spend their time playing bingo at the Red Lion.
> 
> Anyway, the "better" part of Benidorm is Poniente. In the summer it's where the Spanish seem to hang out. If you want to see people throwing up in the street go to the Levante


Absolutely - I have to say I prefer to stick to the Poniente/Old town end. Funny thing is, I only go to Levante /New Town end when I am with Spanish (they seem to find it quite amusing to watch the british stag nights in nurses uniforms etc etc).

I was there for the fiesta fireworks too - had a thoroughly pleasant evening (with Spanish people, not english jaja). The Spanish do know how to party, yet they seem to be able to do it without the need for onsuming their own weight in 1€ a pint beer and decorating the streets with regurgatated (spelling?) kebab!

What I loved about the recent fiestas was the fact that everyone in the family -from toddlers to great granny were all out, dressed up, enjoying the fun.


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

northwestlads said:


> Well folks, we finally made it a few weeks ago, and safely got to spain. Found a flat to rent about 10 minutes from benidorm and its lovely so thank for all the help and advice on here. Also got a job sorted out too which was a stroke of luck but like some of you have said its always best to talk in bars.
> 
> I was shocked at the weekend though, i went to benidorm for a night out and was horrified to see a fight with about 6 or 7 lads in the street.probably a bunch of boozed up idiots, which you find anywhere in the world I never seen trouble before you must have had a sheltered life and the opinion of people on here always tend to be spain is safer than the uk but is it? I mean these lads were beating seven bells out of a spanish lad and what shocked me more was that the spanish lad retaliated and gave one of them a pasting too why is that shocking? In that situation I would be aiming to take a few of them down with me (something to do with his girlfriend but i couldnt make it out). luckily after a minute or two the police arrived and split them up - but the questions remains, if spain any safer than the uk or do people here wear rose tinted specs and believe it is safer because they want to?
> 
> ...


no, it's not normal. You just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

steve_in_spain said:


> What I loved about the recent fiestas was the fact that everyone in the family -from toddlers to great granny were all out, dressed up, enjoying the fun.


I think that sums up the difference between British and Spanish attitudes to going out and having a good time.

Those Brits on their stag nights should take their grannies with them.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> I think that sums up the difference between British and Spanish attitudes to going out and having a good time.
> 
> Those Brits on their stag nights should take their grannies with them.


Lots of Grannies and Grandads are on asbos these days, so I doubt if that will help very much.
Sometimes the slight cultural difference can cause a problem.
As mentioned previously the Spanish will often shout,scream and wave their mitts at each other for hours on end, yet nothing usually becomes of it.
Now to do that to an average British tourist after a minor traffic mishap or disagreement, can often be slightly misconstrued, ending with lights out early.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> I think that sums up the difference between British and Spanish attitudes to going out and having a good time.
> 
> Those Brits on their stag nights should take their grannies with them.


Absolutely!

Couldnt agree more!


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## casa99 (Oct 19, 2010)

steve_in_spain said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> Couldnt agree more!


Its a sad thing but it seems wherever you get 15 or 20 british lads and lasses all tanked up with beer and wine they just want to go and pick fights with every body
and it makes me feel embarrassed to be english

I can agree about the spanish people and their festives as I was stranded in april this year by the famous ash cloud and was invited to a local festival, there were a few expats but mainly spanish people, there was free food and sangria and wine all day and although a lot of people including me ( hic ) were very merry by the end of the day there was no trouble from anyone , why ? because the spanish people make it a family thing and everyone from babies to grandparents go, we in england seem to have lost this togetherness its a shame:sad:


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

casa99 said:


> Its a sad thing but it seems wherever you get 15 or 20 british lads and lasses all tanked up with beer and wine they just want to go and pick fights with every body
> and it makes me feel embarrassed to be english
> 
> I can agree about the spanish people and their festives as I was stranded in april this year by the famous ash cloud and was invited to a local festival, there were a few expats but mainly spanish people, there was free food and sangria and wine all day and although a lot of people including me ( hic ) were very merry by the end of the day there was no trouble from anyone , why ? because the spanish people make it a family thing and everyone from babies to grandparents go, we in england seem to have lost this togetherness its a shame:sad:


You are right! In spain family is important - my OH (spanish) has immense bonds to his family - something i had to adapt to, but something i now respect and admire. 

When they go out they ALL go out and have a lovely time. Everything in Spain seems so much better than spain on that repect. Families, children, parents, and grandparents, all enjoying time together. 

In england, mum and dad are at home watching telly (or down the pub getting p****d) while little johnny is in the park injecting heroin and mugging old ladies.... and i know thats a generalisation and extreme eample but compare it to Spanish way of life - huge difference!


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

I think many of you are wearing your rose tinted specs. There is violence among the Spanish, here for instance I would not go to the feria with my wife late because of fights. Last year police were injured trying to break up fights. They would have been Spanish fighting because there were wouldn't have been any Brits there. I have also seen fights in the local bars - usually drugs related. 

When I lived in Estepona previously there was certainly the odd fight amongst boozed up Brits but just as many involving Spanish. Another thing is that when the Brits fight it usually begins and ends with fists. The Spanish resort to bottles (and worse) very quickly.

Steve_in_Spain said



> Crime here is without a doubt far far lower than in the UK.


I don't know what criteria you are using to judge. Personal experience maybe? Well in my experience it's much worse here. For example, the number of people who do coke here is staggering.

I'm not knocking Spain by the way - I love it and I love the people and I feel as safe here as I feel anywhere. But there is more crime and violence here than some people seem to think.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jimenato said:


> I think many of you are wearing your rose tinted specs. There is violence among the Spanish, here for instance I would not go to the feria with my wife late because of fights. Last year police were injured trying to break up fights. They would have been Spanish fighting because there were wouldn't have been any Brits there. I have also seen fights in the local bars - usually drugs related.
> 
> When I lived in Estepona previously there was certainly the odd fight amongst boozed up Brits but just as many involving Spanish. Another thing is that when the Brits fight it usually begins and ends with fists. The Spanish resort to bottles (and worse) very quickly.
> 
> ...



I never went out late at night in the UK so I didnt witness much crime, that said I tend to go out later here simply because its more acceptable. Families are seen out later. In the UK once it gets dark families tend to shut themselves indoors, draw the curtains and the streets are left to youths. In Spain there is no doubt a safer feel when you see a mum, a dad and the kids wandering about and as a consequence, the businesses that are open are family orientated, which gives it a different feel. But of course, crime still happens!

Also I think that the british media like to make a noise about crime and street violence. In Spain they dont talk about it as much

Jo xxx


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

I'm sure there is violence here for sure, all I am referring to is what I have witnessed in Benidorm. I've actually never seen a fight or any violence that I can remember up here in our area.

All I can say is that here I dont feel "on guard" when I walk past a group of kids at the side of the road. In the UK the largest town that was close to us was Leamington Spa, where I felt somewhat different because of the seemingly aggressive attitude of the kids there


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jojo said:


> I never went out late at night in the UK so I didnt witness much crime, that said I tend to go out later here simply because its more acceptable. Families are seen out later. In the UK once it gets dark families tend to shut themselves indoors, draw the curtains and the streets are left to youths. In Spain there is no doubt a safer feel when you see a mum, a dad and the kids wandering about and as a consequence, the businesses that are open are family orientated, which gives it a different feel. But of course, crime still happens!
> 
> Also I think that the british media like to make a noise about crime and street violence. In Spain they dont talk about it as much
> 
> Jo xxx


I think you make very valid points Jo. I don't tend to go out late at night so a whole bunch of stuff goes on that I've got no idea about. And I'm sure you're right about the press. In Britain cime and street violence is big news. In Spain, in general it isn't. So I agree with you and Jimenato that violence is there, but perhaps we don't all see it. In the area where i live I wouldn't say there's more than in areas of the UK though. Also Jimenato talks about drug related crime, but that's big and has been big in the UK for a long time too. Coke and E and goodness knows what is cheap and easily accessible in both countries. I'd venture a guess and say it's the same all over europe.

As for the family thing, again, don't take everything at face value. I would say _*undoubtedly*_ there is more "family feeling" here than there, but just 'cos Pedro is still living at home at the age of 30 doesn't mean that he has a great relationship with the family. He probably does, but not necessarily. 
My experience with my Spanish family
One of my BIL's lives at home, but has a totally separate life from his mother. They go for days when they only see each other at lunch time, and sometimes not even that. It doesn't mean that they're looking after each other and sharing their lives it means that they're sharing the 4 walls of a house.
At New Year the 18 - 30's have dinner with the family, hear the bells at 12 o' clock and ten minutes later they're out the door! Again, food has brought them together, but it's get the nosh down and I'm out 'till 10 the next morning.
Two of my SIL's shared a bedroom until they were in their 30's, but they hardly spoke to each other. One would get up at 8, pull up the blind, open the window etc with the other still in bed. Typical sisters arguments, but looking in from the outside you might think they were very close because niether sister moved out into her own place...

Even so, I'm sure the family is still a strong unit here and I think there are many areas where crime is not a big issue. It happens, but is nothing out of the ordinary. And I think problems arising from drink are more commen and more violent in general in the UK


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I've seen videos of Bristol at the weekend (which is near where my family live) that are a disgrace.


I've been in Bristol city centre on a Friday night and it is certainly very lively. The worst that happened to me though was being goosed by a member of a hen party...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

jimenato said:


> I've been in Bristol city centre on a Friday night and it is certainly very lively. The worst that happened to me though was being goosed by a member of a hen party...


I dont want to know what "goosed" means do I!!!!! 

Jo xxx


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

jojo said:


> I dont want to know what "goosed" means do I!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Oh I do Jo! It sounds very interesting! I have a very vivid imagination jaja


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

And here comes the urban dictonary!!
Urban Dictionary: goosed
I just hope it was number 1 and not number 5!!


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> And here comes the urban dictonary!!
> Urban Dictionary: goosed
> I just hope it was number 1 and not number 5!!


Definitely number 1 but I suspect number 5 was on offer...


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## Nignoy (Jun 4, 2010)

There are some very valid and truthful comments both about young brits and spanish family values!but isnt it the same the world over , where ever groups of single young people no matter what nationality are on holiday together there will drunkeness and loutish behaviour, brits, septics, germans and aussies in thailand and bali , germans and septics in mexico and in all three countries local crime rates are higher than uk or spain put together, on the resort island of phuket there have been 48 violent tourist deaths this year and that is just 1 resort, and I might be wrong but I dont think 1 of them came from a brawl,surely wherever tourist resorts such as Benidorm or pattaya who in the 90,s really encouraged and openly advertised singles Booze trips and special offers for stag parties and sports clubs outings, and now it is expected, as far as local behaviour, really it has nothing to do with tourism, being an old fart who loves travelling I know not to visit the boozier parts of any towns we visit, on the coast near us at the moment is Schoolies week , 30000 young people who have finished school, average age 18, are here with the sole aim of partying for 7 days solid, the police are prepared for it and everything is usually good natured but some times the local youths cause trouble and then blood tends to flow, surely the whole trouble seems to be encouraging young tourists to binge drink with cheap alcohol and happy hours and other promotions , maybe the bar owners should be encouraged to say no to a young person under the influence , but that would mean a reduction in profits,my own personal opinion is no matter what nationality, alcohol and young people=TROUBLE


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Nignoy said:


> There are some very valid and truthful comments both about young brits and spanish family values!but isnt it the same the world over , where ever groups of single young people no matter what nationality are on holiday together there will drunkeness and loutish behaviour, brits, septics, germans and aussies in thailand and bali , germans and septics in mexico and in all three countries local crime rates are higher than uk or spain put together, on the resort island of phuket there have been 48 violent tourist deaths this year and that is just 1 resort, and I might be wrong but I dont think 1 of them came from a brawl,surely wherever tourist resorts such as Benidorm or pattaya who in the 90,s really encouraged and openly advertised singles Booze trips and special offers for stag parties and sports clubs outings, and now it is expected, as far as local behaviour, really it has nothing to do with tourism, being an old fart who loves travelling I know not to visit the boozier parts of any towns we visit, on the coast near us at the moment is Schoolies week , 30000 young people who have finished school, average age 18, are here with the sole aim of partying for 7 days solid, the police are prepared for it and everything is usually good natured but some times the local youths cause trouble and then blood tends to flow, surely the whole trouble seems to be encouraging young tourists to binge drink with cheap alcohol and happy hours and other promotions , maybe the bar owners should be encouraged to say no to a young person under the influence , but that would mean a reduction in profits,my own personal opinion is no matter what nationality, alcohol and young people=TROUBLE


Schoolies week sounds like a nightmare!!
A bit like this
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...day-resort--make-football-hooligan-blush.html


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Noise in the UK equals aggression. In Spain it signifies having a good time.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Nignoy said:


> There are some very valid and truthful comments both about young brits and spanish family values!but isnt it the same the world over , where ever groups of single young people no matter what nationality are on holiday together there will drunkeness and loutish behaviour, brits, septics, germans and aussies in thailand and bali , germans and septics in mexico and in all three countries local crime rates are higher than uk or spain put together, on the resort island of phuket there have been 48 violent tourist deaths this year and that is just 1 resort, and I might be wrong but I dont think 1 of them came from a brawl,surely wherever tourist resorts such as Benidorm or pattaya who in the 90,s really encouraged and openly advertised singles Booze trips and special offers for stag parties and sports clubs outings, and now it is expected, as far as local behaviour, really it has nothing to do with tourism, being an old fart who loves travelling I know not to visit the boozier parts of any towns we visit, on the coast near us at the moment is Schoolies week , 30000 young people who have finished school, average age 18, are here with the sole aim of partying for 7 days solid, the police are prepared for it and everything is usually good natured but some times the local youths cause trouble and then blood tends to flow, surely the whole trouble seems to be encouraging young tourists to binge drink with cheap alcohol and happy hours and other promotions , maybe the bar owners should be encouraged to say no to a young person under the influence , but that would mean a reduction in profits,my own personal opinion is no matter what nationality, alcohol and young people=TROUBLE


Sorry if I´m being dim, but what are septics? Is this an Aussie expression?

I can never understand why so many young people equate getting paralytic with having a good time. And although the availability of cheap alcohol is a major factor, it isn´t the only factor - if it were, the Spanish kids would do it too, because cheap booze is widely available here, and although they drink a lot at fiestas and ferias, they don´t end up rolling in their own vomit on the streets like the Brits in Ibiza and Benidorm.

Spanish people here tell me that it is considered very undignified and un-manly to be drunk in public; there is still a stigma attached to it, especially in rural areas. That idea seems to have disappeared in more "advanced" cultures.


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## James3214 (Jun 25, 2009)

I think he means 'septic tanks' which is Cockney rhyming slang for 'Yanks' or 'Americans'. Understandably, it's not known by a lot on this global forum!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

One of the first things I noticed when we left the UK was the absence of feral youth. We were pleased about that in both Czecho and Spain.
However.......could that be because we were lucky enough to be able to live in 'better' parts of both countries?
Czech and Spanish friends were quick to point out that big city life, certainly in the poorer parts, was nasty and brutal compared to the tranquil, bourgeois areas where we live.
I think the difference is that in the UK anti-social behaviour is widespread. It's found in all classes. Think of the infamous Cambridge Bullingdon Club (to which our illustrious PM belonged). Toff yobs. It's found in all areas, from large towns to rural villages, to a greater or lesser extent.
The sad fact is that many of us have forgotten how to behave. As someone pointed out, when grannies have ASBOs, what hope for the kids?
Foreign friends who visit the UK and are unlucky enough to be able to understand colloquial English are shocked at the aggression, foul language and lack of consideration for others that seems to be the norm.
As for stag and hen parties.....I could write a book on that topic, having lived in Prague....
It is because of unspeakably horrible flights with packs of these uncouth morons that I will use EasyJet, BMI Baby ..all budget flights...only when there is absolutely no alternative.
Scheduled airlines seem to be a lot more concerned about the sobriety of some passengers and the comfort of others than the budget airlines, in my experience.
I was once told by an inebriated Scot I had the misfortune to sit next to on an EasyJet flight that he was travelling alone as 'his friend Hughie had eaten his passport in the departure lounge'.
That is a true story.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

James3214 said:


> I think he means 'septic tanks' which is Cockney rhyming slang for 'Yanks' or 'Americans'. Understandably, it's not known by a lot on this global forum!


That´s a new one on me - thanks!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> One of the first things I noticed when we left the UK was the absence of feral youth. We were pleased about that in both Czecho and Spain.
> However.......could that be because we were lucky enough to be able to live in 'better' parts of both countries?
> Czech and Spanish friends were quick to point out that big city life, certainly in the poorer parts, was nasty and brutal compared to the tranquil, bourgeois areas where we live.
> I think the difference is that in the UK anti-social behaviour is widespread. It's found in all classes. Think of the infamous Cambridge Bullingdon Club (to which our illustrious PM belonged). Toff yobs. It's found in all areas, from large towns to rural villages, to a greater or lesser extent.
> ...


How do we reverse the trend then? Will the next generation look at this one with contempt and disgust and all turn into teetotal puritans? 

I remember a young punk kid telling me in the late 1970s that the reason the world was in such a mess was because his parents' generation (i.e. mine) were stoned all the time.

PS the Bullingdon Club was Oxford, not Cambridge.


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## dunmovin (Dec 19, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> How do we reverse the trend then? Will the next generation look at this one with contempt and disgust and all turn into teetotal puritans?
> 
> I remember a young punk kid telling me in the late 1970s that the reason the world was in such a mess was because his parents' generation (i.e. mine) were stoned all the time


I read this post, took 30 seconds and formulate an answer for "punk kid". Which would be, "if you were smart enough to see your parent's mistakes and realise they "did it wrong", why by any reason of logic, does that allow you to perpetuate the mistake?"


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## geez (Apr 4, 2010)

I would say that I feel safer here when in comes to mindless violence street violence than in any of the English-speaking countries in which I've lived. You Brits are certainly not alone: I grew up in an exceptionally violent place. Unfortunately, this is not just a memory of youth and have witnessed some awful stuff the last few times I've been back.

Having now lived six months in the main bar district of Bilbao (arguably, not Spain), and with the eye bags to prove it, I can honestly say that I have never witnessed a major act of violence. If it were a regular occurrence we would likely know about it as we hear everything that occurs in the streets as the bars disgorge at various times of the morning. We've often mused that if you poured this much alcohol down equivalent English-speaking throats you would have a blood bath every weekend. Alcohol abuse is not the only issue, it is one of culture.

Someone mentioned earlier the high level of domestic violence here in Spain and it reminded me that yesterday I saw a flag being affixed to a public building across the street. It looks like a Japanese national flag, but with a crimson rather than vermilion sun. I'm told it is a symbol for ending machista violence. Has anyone else noticed this campaign elsewhere in Spain?


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

geez said:


> I would say that I feel safer here when in comes to mindless violence street violence than in any of the English-speaking countries in which I've lived. You Brits are certainly not alone: I grew up in an exceptionally violent place. Unfortunately, this is not just a memory of youth and have witnessed some awful stuff the last few times I've been back.
> 
> Having now lived six months in the main bar district of Bilbao (arguably, not Spain), and with the eye bags to prove it, I can honestly say that I have never witnessed a major act of violence. If it were a regular occurrence we would likely know about it as we hear everything that occurs in the streets as the bars disgorge at various times of the morning. We've often mused that if you poured this much alcohol down equivalent English-speaking throats you would have a blood bath every weekend. Alcohol abuse is not the only issue, it is one of culture.
> 
> Someone mentioned earlier the high level of domestic violence here in Spain and it reminded me that yesterday I saw a flag being affixed to a public building across the street. It looks like a Japanese national flag, but with a crimson rather than vermilion sun. I'm told it is a symbol for ending machista violence. Has anyone else noticed this campaign elsewhere in Spain?


I don't think the situation regarding drink and violence in Spain is quite so black and white as most ppl seem to think.
It's a well known fact that most Spanish look on it as a disgrace to be seen drunk in public, just as there is still quite often a big stigma attached to Spanish couples being divorced.
However the level of domestic violence behind closed doors is obviously very high, some of it no doubt fuelled by excess alcohol.
Naturally its no big disgrace or humiliation if no one sees it happen,so it's a case of out of sight, out of mind as far as most Spanish are concerned.
However many of the results eventually do catch the public and media eye and have become much more of a major issue in recent years, with ever increasing numbers of battered wives either desperate for an alternative home or else trying to hide their injuries and carry on and grin and bear it.
I recently saw some figures stating that at least one third of Spanish guys admit to regularly using prostitutes, many of them thought to still be involved in what have become little more than sham marriages, rather than facing the humiliation of openly splitting up.
Another survey I saw last week stated that the average daily intake of alcohol by the Spanish is at least 50% higher than that of the Brits.
The vast majority of Spanish obviously drink in moderation in public, but behind closed doors who knows the true figures ?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> How do we reverse the trend then? Will the next generation look at this one with contempt and disgust and all turn into teetotal puritans?
> 
> I remember a young punk kid telling me in the late 1970s that the reason the world was in such a mess was because his parents' generation (i.e. mine) were stoned all the time.
> 
> PS the Bullingdon Club was Oxford, not Cambridge.



I believe trends i.e. cultural and social attitudes go in cycles. (But then I believe the idea that we as humanity can 'progress' other than in terms of science and technological avance has no basis in reality). Our vices don't disappear, they merely assume different forms.
Our current culture knows the price of everything and the value of very little. 
There are very few 'values' that are regarded as binding on everyone. Moral relativism has made self-interest our main motive behind our actions, however we try to disguise it as altruism. 
Because most of us in the rich West at least are fortunate to have easy lives where few if any really hard, life-changing choices have to be made, we have forgotten the need to think about the consequences of what we do.
How do we change things? Well, we have to accept that we can't, really, at least not by pursuing chimeras and other false hopes that we can change our basic nature, which is, sadly, destructive. **** sapiens is the most destructive animal on the planet. No other animal has perfected mass killing and violence on the scale of 'man-made-in -the -image of-god'.. 
We must accept that and take it from there. Personally, my contribution is to try to be as nice as possible and do as little harm as I can. Not much more I can do.
Yes, of course Bullingdon was Oxford. Which gives me the opportunity to add that there are posh yobs at Cambridge too.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I believe trends i.e. cultural and social attitudes go in cycles. (But then I believe the idea that we as humanity can 'progress' other than in terms of science and technological avance has no basis in reality). Our vices don't disappear, they merely assume different forms.
> Our current culture knows the price of everything and the value of very little.
> There are very few 'values' that are regarded as binding on everyone. Moral relativism has made self-interest our main motive behind our actions, however we try to disguise it as altruism.
> Because most of us in the rich West at least are fortunate to have easy lives where few if any really hard, life-changing choices have to be made, we have forgotten the need to think about the consequences of what we do.
> ...


I can't argue with any of that. I suppose that by moving here I have turned my back on most of the aspects of modern society that I don't like, and mentally pulled up the drawbridge. I can't do anything about it, so I'll just enjoy my little rural backwater until civilisation catches up with it.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> I can't argue with any of that. I suppose that by moving here I have turned my back on most of the aspects of modern society that I don't like, and mentally pulled up the drawbridge. I can't do anything about it, so I'll just enjoy my little rural backwater until civilisation catches up with it.


Well, where's the harm in that?
If everyone of us looked after the people in our immediate circle then 'humanity' would be taken care of, wouldn't it?
It reminds me of a friend's children who complained that their parents were always out doing things to save the world....and not giving much attention to their very real and needy children at home.
To some extent I was guilty of this. My son has memories of being at demos with his pushchair being festooned with various political slogans......and of sitting in the public gallery at Council meetings late at night as we couldn't get babysitters and of course we _*had*_ to be at the meeting...
He is now not very interested in politics....


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## Nignoy (Jun 4, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Sorry if I´m being dim, but what are septics? Is this an Aussie expression?
> 
> I can never understand why so many young people equate getting paralytic with having a good time. And although the availability of cheap alcohol is a major factor, it isn´t the only factor - if it were, the Spanish kids would do it too, because cheap booze is widely available here, and although they drink a lot at fiestas and ferias, they don´t end up rolling in their own vomit on the streets like the Brits in Ibiza and Benidorm.
> 
> Spanish people here tell me that it is considered very undignified and un-manly to be drunk in public; there is still a stigma attached to it, especially in rural areas. That idea seems to have disappeared in more "advanced" cultures.


Spanish kids do not normaly frequent tourist bars touting the the happy hours and such, yobs travel to places like benidorm to get drunk and get laid, and maybe forget their humdrum lives back in down town wigan or whereever, Its not very dignified to be drunk and out of control anywhere in the world, spanish bar owners and landlords are only to willing to encourage binge drinking in these holiday areas and take the tourists money, the police allow the bad behaviour, really enforcing shorter drinking hours would cut out a lot of problems, but it would also cut down the PROFIT!! , the nick name for americans is yank it rhymes with Septic Tank so here in our idiom american tourists are septics, under 35,s drunken spanish tourists here in sunny queensland are not uncommon amongst our fruit pickers, but a good siesta cures all ills no matter what nationality


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

littleredrooster said:


> I don't think the situation regarding drink and violence in Spain is quite so black and white as most ppl seem to think.
> It's a well known fact that most Spanish look on it as a disgrace to be seen drunk in public, just as there is still quite often a big stigma attached to Spanish couples being divorced.
> However the level of domestic violence behind closed doors is obviously very high, some of it no doubt fuelled by excess alcohol.
> Naturally its no big disgrace or humiliation if no one sees it happen,so it's a case of out of sight, out of mind as far as most Spanish are concerned.
> ...





> It's a well known fact that most Spanish look on it as a disgrace to be seen drunk in public,


It's a well known fact that I've never heard!



> just as there is still quite often a big stigma attached to Spanish couples being divorced


Stigma?? In small, remote villages perhaps?
Look at this quote from El País
_En la última década, España ha registrado el mayor incremento de toda Europa en el número de divorcios, pasando de 36.072 en 1998 a 110.036 en 2008, según el Instituto de Política Familiar. Según esta estadística, se produce un divorcio cada cinco minutos._
In the last decade, the biggest number increase in the number of divorces in the whole of Europe, was registered in Spain going from 36,072 in 1998 to 110,036 in 2008 according to Instituto de Política Familiar. According to this statistic, there is a divorce every 5 minutes.
Stigma?? They can't wait to get to the court room and sign those papers!

Franco is dead. He left a legacy, no doubt about it, and yes, the widows dressed in black, the farm labourers, the pious church members, the old Spain, still exist. But don't you see modern Spain besides it? Calatrava, the Guggenheim, Zara, the AVE??? Many ideas about Spain in 2010 belong to Spain of the 1970's or 80's and need to be brought up to date.



> However the level of domestic violence behind closed doors is obviously very high, some of it no doubt fuelled by excess alcohol.
> Naturally its no big disgrace or humiliation if no one sees it happen,so it's a case of out of sight, out of mind as far as most Spanish are concerned.


The level of domestic violence is indeed outrageously high. Some of these are no doubt related to drink, just as others are drug related, and others are just macho *******s. However don't forget the very high proportion of domestic violence murders that are carried out by foreigners. I can't find any reliable figures, but I've seen up to 50% being quoted...

I can believe that the Spanish intake of alcohol is more than the British, but I would say the Spanish can hold their drink a lot better and the Brits often binge drink. (Incidentally, this is becoming more common in Spain, and young people's drinking habits are changing in Spain too.)


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I can believe that the Spanish intake of alcohol is more than the British, but I would say the Spanish can hold their drink a lot better and the Brits often binge drink. (Incidentally, this is becoming more common in Spain, and young people's drinking habits are changing in Spain too.)


Hmm... You don't see many workers in Britain in bars at 7 in the morning drinking aguardiente or brandy...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jimenato said:


> Hmm... You don't see many workers in Britain in bars at 7 in the morning drinking aguardiente or brandy...



I know.
I just said that the Spanish (huge generalisation) seem to be able to hold their drink better, by which I meant not so much street violence. Of course it happens, but IMHO it's not so widespread


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Here´s an interesting little article which shows that per capita alcohol consumption in Spain and GB were about the same in 2003, but the trend figures are going up in the UK and down in Spain.

World/Global Alcohol/Drink Consumption, 2009, Ireland and European Drink Price Comparisons : Finfacts Ireland


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## Nignoy (Jun 4, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Here´s an interesting little article which shows that per capita alcohol consumption in Spain and GB were about the same in 2003, but the trend figures are going up in the UK and down in Spain.
> 
> World/Global Alcohol/Drink Consumption, 2009, Ireland and European Drink Price Comparisons : Finfacts Ireland


I dont doubt that these figures are true, but I think if the consumption of alcohol before and during working hours were recorded too the figures woul d be quite different


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

More stats on alcohol consumption in Europe - the Irish and the Czechs are leaving us way behind.
http://ec.europa.eu/health/indicators/docs/echi_11_en.pdf


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Nignoy said:


> I dont doubt that these figures are true, but I think if the consumption of alcohol before and during working hours were recorded too the figures woul d be quite different


Yes, consumption patterns differ with different cultures. When I used to work in the UK, the 20 and 30-somethings would regularly go to a bar after work and drink for several hours without eating anything. By 10 pm they were completely wasted and they would come into work next day boasting about their hangovers.

A shot of brandy with your breakfast tostada might be considered quite civilised in comparison.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

I read an article recently that put Spanish alcohol consumption per head at 50% higher than in the UK.
However it did make the point, that because it was spread out right through the day, it did not appear to cause major problems,... on the streets at least.
Whether or not much more serious drinking occurs later on behind closed doors or the almost continuous alcohol consumption puts many of them in the alcoholic category, I know not.
I would agree with the point that the younger ones are sadly beginning to move in the same direction as much of the rest of the Western World with regard to alcohol intake, and I have seen a few reports regarding trouble at botellas or bottle parties that are becoming much more commonplace.
True that divorce statistics are rapidly rising also, but once again they are not yet quite so commonly accepted as the norm throughout the whole country, as elsewhere.


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## Nignoy (Jun 4, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Yes, consumption patterns differ with different cultures. When I used to work in the UK, the 20 and 30-somethings would regularly go to a bar after work and drink for several hours without eating anything. By 10 pm they were completely wasted and they would come into work next day boasting about their hangovers.
> 
> A shot of brandy with your breakfast tostada might be considered quite civilised in comparison.


any alcohol consumption before and during the working day is not only irresponsible but very dangerous too, In the late 60,s and 70,s I employed guest workers recruited from italy and spain as qualified rural artisans and tradesmen, my only constant problem, was convincing them not to consume alcohol on or near the work place, it is one thing I think to finish work and then go and get drunk in your own time, but to have a few brandies tokeep out the cold in the winter forest can cost you or your workmates life and limb


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Nignoy said:


> any alcohol consumption before and during the working day is not only irresponsible but very dangerous too, In the late 60,s and 70,s I employed guest workers recruited from italy and spain as qualified rural artisans and tradesmen, my only constant problem, was convincing them not to consume alcohol on or near the work place, it is one thing I think to finish work and then go and get drunk in your own time, but to have a few brandies tokeep out the cold in the winter forest can cost you or your workmates life and limb


I will add to that my observation that drinking and driving in Spain is the norm. Many of the people I see in bars in the early morning are going to drive to work - or even drive as part of their work - e.g. the basura lorry driver in one village. I'm not aware of this sort of behaviour in Britain.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

littleredrooster said:


> I read an article recently that put Spanish alcohol consumption per head at 50% higher than in the UK.


That would be the million or so British residents and 5 million tourists pushing up the figures, surely?

So many expats here just sit round drinking from lunchtime onwards as if they were on a permanent holiday.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

In Egypt fighting in the street is common and no alcohol is involved.


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> In Egypt fighting in the street is common and no alcohol is involved.


:clap2::clap2::boxing:


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> That would be the million or so British residents and 5 million tourists pushing up the figures, surely?
> 
> So many expats here just sit round drinking from lunchtime onwards as if they were on a permanent holiday.


That happens in the UK as well - city centre pubs are full of people having their first drink at 11 in the morning. How do people do it? Having a drink is something I do AFTER I've done everything else I need (or want) to do.


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

jimenato said:


> That happens in the UK as well - city centre pubs are full of people having their first drink at 11 in the morning. How do people do it? Having a drink is something I do AFTER I've done everything else I need (or want) to do.


Only 4 hours behind the Spanish then.

I don't see very many expats getting properly plastered during day-time hours.

Possibly it is the case with tourists, who only have one week or two to take advantage of enjoying a cheap jar or two in the Sun, maybe their one and only opportunity in a year to do so, therefore understandable to a certain degree.

The article I referred to concerning excess drinking, related to Spanish culture/people and the fact that they were believed to consume 50% more per head per day than the average Brit., though to be honest I doubt if it's really possible to make an accurate assesment of any nations drinking habits.




Likewise best left till the end of the day


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

littleredrooster said:


> Only 4 hours behind the Spanish then.
> 
> I don't see very many expats getting properly plastered during day-time hours.
> 
> ...


I think it could well be true that many spaniards overall consume more alcohol. The problem in the UK is the way it is consumed. The UK sees a lot of so called binge drinking, people who work all week and then on a friday or saturday night make it their mission to drink 3 times their own body weight in beer or wine and finish it off with as many spirits as possible.

I think many spanish people drink more regularly but pace themselves. My circle of spanish friends ranges from people in their 20´s through to 60´s and I have never seen any of them drunk. They drink several nights a week but its usually one drink (consumed slowly) followed by a softt drink etc etc. So yes, overall perhap they do drink more but the way in which they do it means that generally they are not such a problem as many of the UK people are.

I still struggle to get my head around buying a big mac menu with a cerveca jaja


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## Nignoy (Jun 4, 2010)

I thought the purpose of the thread was to discus the bad behaviour of the yob type of english tourists not who consumes more alcohol, different countries different drinking habits.as I mentioned previously, the spanish powers that be should not on one hand issue licences and permits, that encourage binge drinking and bad behaviour, and then on the other hand condemn it, It would be the same as blackpool council giving a permit to torture and stab a few bulls to death on a sunday afternoon at the local sport arena


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Nignoy said:


> I thought the purpose of the thread was to discus the bad behaviour of the yob type of english tourists not who consumes more alcohol, different countries different drinking habits.as I mentioned previously, the spanish powers that be should not on one hand issue licences and permits, that encourage binge drinking and bad behaviour, and then on the other hand condemn it, It would be the same as blackpool council giving a permit to torture and stab a few bulls to death on a sunday afternoon at the local sport arena


But Spain still has the concept of personal responsibility. It is not a "nanny state". Yes, the bars are open all day and alcohol is widely available, and that is fine for the 99.99% of people who don't binge-drink or behave badly, but just like a nice cold beer on a hot afternoon. 

Is there any evidence that countries which severely restrict the availability of alcohol have fewer drink-related problems?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Nignoy said:


> I thought the purpose of the thread was to discus the bad behaviour of the yob type of english tourists not who consumes more alcohol, different countries different drinking habits.as I mentioned previously, the spanish powers that be should not on one hand issue licences and permits, that encourage binge drinking and bad behaviour, and then on the other hand condemn it, It would be the same as blackpool council giving a permit to torture and stab a few bulls to death on a sunday afternoon at the local sport arena


The point of the OP was to express surprise at the street violence he experienced since coming to Spain.
There is a proven correlation between violent behaviour and _excessive_ alcohol consumption.
I'm intrigued as to why and how you think the Spanish authorities 'encourage binge drinking and bad behaviour by handing out permits and licences'.
I use Spanish bars but don't binge drink or engage in 'bad behaviour'. Most of those who visit bars behaver sensibly and properly. Those that do not have _chosen_ to act irresponsibly.
Your Blackpool Council analogy doesn't make sense.
The consumption of alcohol per se does not lead to violence.
Many varied and diverse factors combine to create a certain obnoxious kind of British street thug, of which there are sadly far too many in the UK, Euirope and the rest of the world..


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

mrypg9 said:


> Many varied and diverse factors combine to create a certain obnoxious kind of British street thug, of which there are sadly far too many in the UK, Euirope and the rest of the world..


Hmmmmm .... I think thats a little unfair  ..... there are of course violent street thugs of _every_ nationality. The difference often is that, as with football for example, they goad the dim brit and when it all goes off they are clever enough to step back and blame the Brit! In fact Brit football violence has declined over the years ... which isnt difficult I agree  Of course, the Brit has a history to overcome of past acts of lunacy and thats not easy

I'd have to say that only from watching it on TV reports, alcohol does seem to be an overriding factor, I'm not saying it is the cause, but its always there it seems


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## Nignoy (Jun 4, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> But Spain still has the concept of personal responsibility. It is not a "nanny state". Yes, the bars are open all day and alcohol is widely available, and that is fine for the 99.99% of people who don't binge-drink or behave badly, but just like a nice cold beer on a hot afternoon.
> 
> Is there any evidence that countries which severely restrict the availability of alcohol have fewer drink-related problems?


you are totally missing my point, we are not talking about the availability of alcohol and having a cold beer in the afternoon, but the specific targeting of a certain type and and age group of people in their home countries offering cheap booze and sex holidays, which are a magnet for single groups of young men, for example stagparties and sporting club outings!! even in a muslim country such as bali these type of of trips are encouraged, only difference being in the tourist resorts there, is if you behave badly in public you get locked up!!I understand the spanish concept of personal responsibility, but if your own laws encourage binge drinking and openly publisize and merchandise it, for a few months a year these areas exist purely on the income from these binge drinking tourists, ban them from coming and spain will be an even worse a financial disaster than it is now, without the the badly behaving tourists spain would still be a 3rd world country


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

mrypg9 said:


> The point of the OP was to express surprise at the street violence he experienced since coming to Spain.
> There is a proven correlation between violent behaviour and _excessive_ alcohol consumption.
> I'm intrigued as to why and how you think the Spanish authorities 'encourage binge drinking and bad behaviour by handing out permits and licences'.
> I use Spanish bars but don't binge drink or engage in 'bad behaviour'. Most of those who visit bars behaver sensibly and properly. Those that do not have _chosen_ to act irresponsibly.
> ...


Nor do other analogies posted here make any sense.
Most are comparing chalk with cheese.

It's somewhat ridiculous to compare native Spanish, who probably go through the same basic repetitive routine, almost every day of their lives,with crowds of young ppl. trying to let their hair down, on possibly their one brief,main holiday of the year.
A much fairer comparison would be with Brit expats living in Spain permanently, in which case the difference would appear to be only marginal, if it exists at all.
Do ppl believe that some of the younger Spanish never go over the top when abroad on holiday, or that Britain is the only country with street thugs ?
I would say there are plenty worse in other parts of the World, many of them much more vicious and dangerous.
Has no one met up with these gangs of evil young Russians roaming the globe these last few years,...much more unpleasant in my experience.

In any event as previously mentioned all is not quite a bed of roses with many young Spaniards within their own country in recent times, with the increasing occurance of violence, disturbances and vandalism as result of the ever increasing number of drunken bottle parties.

I do not in any way condone the extreme behaviour of some British yobs on holiday, however it does need to be put into context, and not over exaggerated, in comparison to other more dangerous and unpleasant hazards awaiting tourists in holiday resorts.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Nignoy said:


> you are totally missing my point, we are not talking about the availability of alcohol and having a cold beer in the afternoon, but the specific targeting of a certain type and and age group of people in their home countries offering cheap booze and sex holidays, which are a magnet for single groups of young men, for example stagparties and sporting club outings!! even in a muslim country such as bali these type of of trips are encouraged, only difference being in the tourist resorts there, is if you behave badly in public you get locked up!!I understand the spanish concept of personal responsibility, but if your own laws encourage binge drinking and openly publisize and merchandise it, for a few months a year these areas exist purely on the income from these binge drinking tourists, ban them from coming and spain will be an even worse a financial disaster than it is now, without the the badly behaving tourists spain would still be a 3rd world country


OH pleeeeaaase, Nignoy, Spanish laws do not encourage binge drinking nor the tourism industry offers sex holidays, now do they? 

Tourism is equally important for the british economy as it is for the spanish, after all London is the most visited city in the world, yet one would expect its visitors to behave with decorium and avoid fights and violent behaviour in the streets. And it would be quite stupid from me to say that without the tourists, Uk would be a third world country, now wouldn't it?. (mind you, I would quite openly admit that my experiences with its health service resembles those of third world countries!).

YEs, turism is a great source for the economy of Spain, but that shouldn't be used as an excuse for tourists to take advantage of its services and hospitality, never mind to behave violently


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Nignoy said:


> you are totally missing my point, we are not talking about the availability of alcohol and having a cold beer in the afternoon, but the specific targeting of a certain type and and age group of people in their home countries offering cheap booze and sex holidays, which are a magnet for single groups of young men, for example stagparties and sporting club outings!! even in a muslim country such as bali these type of of trips are encouraged, only difference being in the tourist resorts there, is if you behave badly in public you get locked up!!I understand the spanish concept of personal responsibility, but if your own laws encourage binge drinking and openly publisize and merchandise it, for a few months a year these areas exist purely on the income from these binge drinking tourists, ban them from coming and spain will be an even worse a financial disaster than it is now, without the the badly behaving tourists spain would still be a 3rd world country


I don't understand the point you are attempting to make. Of course some travel companies target a certain demographic.....just as SAGA targets the over-fifties, 'Prague Piss-up'- yes, it exists - targets chavvy young people.
But at the end of the day how you behave is up to your own sense of responsibility and decorum.
Personal and public behaviour have taken a steep nosedive over the past few decades. People have more money to spend on alcohol and other diversions. So who is responsible...the people who demand these services or those who satisfy the demand?
Pointless debare, really.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Nignoy said:


> you are totally missing my point, we are not talking about the availability of alcohol and having a cold beer in the afternoon, but the specific targeting of a certain type and and age group of people in their home countries offering cheap booze and sex holidays, which are a magnet for single groups of young men, for example stagparties and sporting club outings!! even in a muslim country such as bali these type of of trips are encouraged, only difference being in the tourist resorts there, is if you behave badly in public you get locked up!!I understand the spanish concept of personal responsibility, but if your own laws encourage binge drinking and openly publisize and merchandise it, for a few months a year these areas exist purely on the income from these binge drinking tourists, ban them from coming and spain will be an even worse a financial disaster than it is now, without the the badly behaving tourists spain would still be a 3rd world country


Sorry, I was responding to your statement that " the spanish powers that be should not on one hand issue licences and permits, that encourage binge drinking and bad behaviour", you didn´t mention stag parties etc in your earlier post and I have never been anywhere near the parts of Spain where that sort of thing goes on.

But it isn´t true that the law _encourages_ binge drinking. It might enable it, but that´s different. There are laws about public drunken behaviour, and they should be enforced more strongly by the sound of it.

As for your statement that "without the the badly behaving tourists Spain would still be a 3rd world country", that´s just daft. Plenty of tourists come to my part of the country to practice sports, enjoy the scenery, the fabulous coastline, the wildlife, the culture and the architecture in the old towns and cities. They wouldn´t come if the place was full of pissheads.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> As for your statement that "without the the badly behaving tourists Spain would still be a 3rd world country", that´s just daft. .


I wonder that people still use the term 'third world'. After all, it ceased to be valid after the collapse of the Soviet Union and its satellites (second world).
'Developing countries' is a much more accurate term and implies that the user is au fait with recent political and economic changes around the globe.
I heard someone recently moaning that Spain was a 'third world country'. When challenged, the speaker was unable to explain the origin of that term or indeed to define 'first' and 'second' world countries.
In that particular case it said more about the ignorance of the speaker rather than the presumed state of backwardness of the country in question.


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## Nignoy (Jun 4, 2010)

Dizzie Izzie said:


> OH pleeeeaaase, Nignoy, Spanish laws do not encourage binge drinking nor the tourism industry offers sex holidays, now do they?
> 
> Tourism is equally important for the british economy as it is for the spanish, after all London is the most visited city in the world, yet one would expect its visitors to behave with decorium and avoid fights and violent behaviour in the streets. And it would be quite stupid from me to say that without the tourists, Uk would be a third world country, now wouldn't it?. (mind you, I would quite openly admit that my experiences with its health service resembles those of third world countries!).
> 
> YEs, turism is a great source for the economy of Spain, but that shouldn't be used as an excuse for tourists to take advantage of its services and hospitality, never mind to behave violently


spanish laws or so lax in the tourist areas bar owners in the tourist areas have practically no restrictions , without tourism there would be very little income on the costas and absolutely no building and infrastructure development and definitely no airports, tourists dont visit UK for its warm weather and cheap booze availability so I dont think they can be compared in this situation, and sex and booze holidays for the under 30,s are advertised and encouraged on the Balearics, and without out tourism those islands would just be empty lumps of rock in the ocean


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I wonder that people still use the term 'third world'. After all, it ceased to be valid after the collapse of the Soviet Union and its satellites (second world).
> 'Developing countries' is a much more accurate term and implies that the user is au fait with recent political and economic changes around the globe.
> I heard someone recently moaning that Spain was a 'third world country'. When challenged, the speaker was unable to explain the origin of that term or indeed to define 'first' and 'second' world countries.
> In that particular case it said more about the ignorance of the speaker rather than the presumed state of backwardness of the country in question.


I had no idea, I thought it was related to the infrastructure, education, health standard of life etc. Now I learnt something new.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Nignoy said:


> spanish laws or so lax in the tourist areas bar owners in the tourist areas have practically no restrictions , without tourism there would be very little income on the costas and absolutely no building and infrastructure development and definitely no airports, tourists dont visit UK for its warm weather and cheap booze availability so I dont think they can be compared in this situation, and sex and booze holidays for the under 30,s are advertised and encouraged on the Balearics, and without out tourism those islands would just be empty lumps of rock in the ocean


Wouldn't that be great? The islands would be the paceful paradises that everyone in Spain wants them to be. 

Yet Nigoy, you are referring now to tourist spots that are just that, tourist reorts. You shouldn't be judging an entire nation's industry and development based on a holiday resort. I know beautiful places in the coast that are not holiday's destinations yet they have an infrastrucuture, airports and buildings that would surprise you. 

And surprise surprise, not all the tourist visit spain to get drunk. Alcohol is equally cheap in many other parts of the world. There are many that find the scenery and arquitecture interesting.


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## Nignoy (Jun 4, 2010)

Dizzie Izzie said:


> Wouldn't that be great? The islands would be the paceful paradises that everyone in Spain wants them to be.
> 
> Yet Nigoy, you are referring now to tourist spots that are just that, tourist reorts. You shouldn't be judging an entire nation's industry and development based on a holiday resort. I know beautiful places in the coast that are not holiday's destinations yet they have an infrastrucuture, airports and buildings that would surprise you.
> 
> And surprise surprise, not all the tourist visit spain to get drunk. Alcohol is equally cheap in many other parts of the world. There are many that find the scenery and arquitecture interesting.


I thought from the start we were just talking about tourist resorts,and what goes on there, does not occur away from the coast, you can count us as people who visit your country for its countryside and its culture, but if stag tours and club booze outings are encouraged then surely shouldnt bad behaviour be expected too, but that is not to say it is not offensive and should be accepted


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Nignoy said:


> I thought from the start we were just talking about tourist resorts,and what goes on there, does not occur away from the coast, you can count us as people who visit your country for its countryside and its culture, but if stag tours and club booze outings are encouraged then surely shouldnt bad behaviour be expected too, but that is not to say it is not offensive and should be accepted


YEs Nignoy, but then you went on to say that without the drunkies in the tourist twons, Spain would be a third world country, an statement (quite a stupid one, may I say) to which I felt the urge to respond.

ANd to be honest, I never heard about stag tours but admitedly I really don't know what goes on those british tourist spots. I guess it's hard for me to understand, let alone expect, why having a good time equals getting ridiculously drunk and violent.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Nignoy said:


> I thought from the start we were just talking about tourist resorts,and what goes on there, does not occur away from the coast, you can count us as people who visit your country for its countryside and its culture, but if stag tours and club booze outings are encouraged then surely shouldnt bad behaviour be expected too, but that is not to say it is not offensive and should be accepted



Wrong. Bad behaviour is not confined to the coast.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Dizzie Izzie said:


> YEs Nignoy, but then you went on to say that without the drunkies in the tourist twons, Spain would be a third world country, an statement (quite a stupid one, may I say) to which I felt the urge to respond.
> 
> ANd to be honest, I never heard about stag tours but admitedly I really don't know what goes on those british tourist spots. I guess it's hard for me to understand, let alone expect, why having a good time equals getting ridiculously drunk and violent.



I can't understand that either. I feel like s*** the next morning if I have more than a half-bottle of wine the night before and if I drink at lunchtime sleep steals over me....
In Prague, stag weekends consist of grown men and women (hens) getting ratarsed, often whilst wearing very silly clothes. Much cheap and not so cheap alcohol is consumed. Stag and hen parties tend not to realise what total prats they appear to the locals and sensible grown-up Brits who happen to encounter them. Most of the time they are too p****d to care anyway.
Male participants often spend time and a lot of money in tacky brothels and strip clubs. They are again often too ratarsed to avail themselves of all the delights on offer but the bill is still astronomically high at the end of the evening...and presented in Czech crowns which the recipients are too inebriated to calculate in 'English money' and therefore pay without demur. If they do query it, they get beaten up.
I'm not sure what the women do but I guess they go to tacky nightclubs, get plastered on horrible sticky alcoholic beverages and dance round handbags.
All this is a mystery to most Czechs, who are however happy to take the money if they are bar or brothel owners. Others find the presence of foul-mouthed, drunken men in make-up and tutus and equally drunk women wearing devil's horns strange and assume it must be a time-honoured British custom.
As for 'Third World'.....the 'First World' was of course The West which included Japan and Souh Africa (bizarrely), the Second was the Communist Bloc and the Third the underdeveloped countries - as many of them were then.
Now....can't you tell I was a teacher


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