# Help: Irish and Italian nationals planning to move to Canada on working holiday visa



## Italirish (Jul 31, 2015)

Hello everyone,

I am an Italian national but have been living in Ireland for the past 10 years. My husband is Irish and we would like to move to Canada for a year or so (maybe more if we can!) on a working holiday visa. We are both 35, so we really have to do this quickly, i.e. in the next couple of days! However, there is a problem with me being Italian.

Basically my husband (being Iirish) can apply for the working holiday visa as the call for applications is still open (the first round was closed within 24 hours). However, the call for applications for Italian nationals is now closed for 2015 and regardless of that, I would not be able to apply anyway because it is only reserved to Italian nationals who reside in Italy (I reside in Ireland :confused2

My question is: assuming my husband is successful in his application for a working holiday visa to Canada as an Irish citizen, could I somehow join him? I am aware that this visa does not allow individuals to be accompanied by dependants. However, would I be able to join him as a visitor? Could I somehow apply for an open work permit once there? From what I could read on the Canadian government website there are only some specific categories of jobs that can get an open work permit and I don't think I fall under any of those (I am an office manager in a University). My husband is an accountant so he would fall under one of the skilled job categories, but does that mean that I could apply for an open work permit as his spouse if he is only on the working holiday visa?

Sorry for all the questions, I am a bit confused on the whole issue and I would appreciate any help at all on this.

Thank you so much

ps: we are planning to move to Toronto because we were recently on holidays in Ontario and we loved it. However, it was the most expensive city we visited and were wondering whether other cities would also be as appealing? We particularly need a place with good financial links and firms. Thanks again!


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## Auld Yin (Mar 10, 2009)

You could come as a visitor for UP TO SIX MONTHS depending on the generosity of the IO. You will not be permitted to work.
And if you think Toronto expensive you obviously haven't visited Vancouver.


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## OldPro (Feb 18, 2015)

What you want and what you can have are two different things Italirish (I like your choice of name).

You could visit Canada as a tourist but would not be allowed to work. There is no way for you to get a work permit based on his entry on a working holiday program.

It is well known that young Irish who can qualify for the IEC (International Experience Canada) are using it as a way to avoid the long wait to emmigrate to Canada through the Skilled Worker (Express Entry) program which has a long waiting time to get a Permanent Resident Visa. So while your husband could try IEC, you would have to wait years before he was able to sponsor you for entry to Canada.

Since you are talking about giving up your jobs, it seems clear to me that you aren't just looking for a working holiday. That idea was/is simply intended to give young people a chance to experience life in another country for a while. It was never intended as a way to emmigrate to a country. It is in fact being abused by those who use it to do so and at the expense of young people who simply want to try living somewhere else for a while. It is also being abused by Canadian employers who see it as a way to hire cheap foreign labour rather than Canadian youths. Quite controversial actually. You might want to do some reading here: International Experience Canada

Your husband will not be able to work as an accountant until he becomes certified as an accountant in Canada. He should read up on becoming a CPA in Canada based on his existing Irish qualifications and experience. Internationally Trained Accountants

It sounds like what you would like is some simple way to 'try it before you buy it' answer before committing to emmigrating to Canada. The IEC is one way to do that for your husband but it leaves you with no way to do so with him.

So from my perspective, your only choice is to bite the bullet and both apply for Express Entry and just have to wait as long as it takes for that process. You start here: Skilled immigrants (Express Entry)


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## Italirish (Jul 31, 2015)

Auld Yin said:


> You could come as a visitor for UP TO SIX MONTHS depending on the generosity of the IO. You will not be permitted to work.
> And if you think Toronto expensive you obviously haven't visited Vancouver.


Thanks for your reply Auld Yin...and no, I haven't visited Vancouver!

When I come as a visitor, will I have to prepare any documents in advance? To go to Toronto on holidays, as an Italian citizen, I did not have to provide any documents. The IO only asked me for how long I was going to stay (which was only six nights) and where we were going.

I am also considering studying in Toronto which would then give me the opportunity to stay for longer and also work part time. However, the university fees are outrageous!! Are there language schools that offer a language course (French) which would allow me to obtain a study visa? I would need a beginner's course, but I've always wanted to study French and it may be cheaper than embarking on a Masters degree.

Sorry for all these questions, but I am finding it hard to get my head around the different regulations.


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## Italirish (Jul 31, 2015)

OldPro said:


> What you want and what you can have are two different things Italirish (I like your choice of name).
> 
> You could visit Canada as a tourist but would not be allowed to work. There is no way for you to get a work permit based on his entry on a working holiday program.
> 
> ...




Thank you so much for your reply Old Pro! The fact is that my husband is losing his job and I can take a career break, so our intention is indeed to experience a different culture for a year or so and then, if we like it and the conditions allow it, stay. We are not planning to emigrate to Canada at this point in time. My question on whether I could work is simply related to the fact that we fear we may not be able to survive if we only have one income. Thank you so much for the link on Internationally Trained Accountants, that helps a lot!


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## OldPro (Feb 18, 2015)

You say you work at a University Italirish. Perhaps you could look into a University exchange program other than as a student. Why not make a Skype call to the University of Toronto and see what you can find out.

You can find a phone number on the following site and I did note the following comment there: "Please note that our office focuses on student mobility programs. We do not facilitate staff or faculty exchange. If you are interested in this type of exchange, you may wish to contact the appropriate divisions directly."

That indicates to me there ARE staff exchange programs, you just have to find out who to talk to. 
Staff from Abroad


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## Italirish (Jul 31, 2015)

Thanks Old Pro. Exchange of staff are usually made on the basis of an agreement between institutions and I don't think we have an agreement with U of T. I will look into that as well, but it seems to me the easiest way to join my husband would be to go on a student visa and try to obtain some part-time work. Fees for master degrees are very high, so maybe I could try a language course, I've always wanted to learn French anyway...I should have thought about this and just get Irish citizenship years ago!!!


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## OldPro (Feb 18, 2015)

Well if it were me italirish I would be looking for ways to exploit your university connection if at all possible. To make a Skype call and inquire costs nothing. If an agreement doesn't exist it doesn't mean one can't be made.

Universities enjoy a semi-privileged position when it comes to exchange programs between countries. I would be asking your university if they have any exchange happening with Canada of any kind. I would be asking Canadian universities if they would be interested in arranging an exchange with your university and you.

Or just suppose your university has a faculty exchange happening with someone from McMaster University in Hamilton (near Toronto) and that person would be interested in just exchanging homes for the time period. That alone could make things easier for you.

What if a graduate student from U of Toronto is coming to Ireland to work on a PHD for year. They might do a home exchange.

Do you know how many universities there are in Canada? Look here: A-Z list of Canadian Universities There are 98 universities in Canada!

I would be calling each and every one in some kind of order of preference (reputation, location) and talking to someone about what you would like to do (spend some time in Canada). Who knows, what someone might say. 

'You know, we would like our International Admissions Manager to get some experience from the other end of the situation. Yes, let's pursue an exchange.' 

'No, we would not be interested in an exchange but if you were to take your French courses here we would be willing to employ you on campus given your university administration experience.' 

My background is in sales Italirish and so I come from that viewpoint. I think if I started calling 98 universities and finding people to speak to, it would be next to impossible to not find one where some mutually beneficial situation could not be found.


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## colchar (Oct 25, 2011)

For the most part, PhD students do not own their homes - they rent. And one cannot go to another country to do a PhD for a year as the PhD is a minimum of a four year degree. A PhD student can go elsewhere to do research (I did during mine) but those research trips do not usually last for a year as travel funding is such that it does not usually permit year long trips.


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## OldPro (Feb 18, 2015)

Even a rental can be 'taken over' and saves both parties having to furnish, etc. I can take over your house/apartment while you take over mine. Who it is or what the circumstances are doesn't really matter. It's the idea that I was trying to get across. 

The university network simply provides a basis for a search for someone interested in a long term exchange. If I wanted to live in Ireland for a year or so, how do I go about finding someone to exchange with? Phoning Irish Universities and asking if they have anyone who is planning to spend time in my country is a pretty good source.

I happen to live across the street from a sub-campus of a well known Canadian university Colchar. If I went to them and asked who if anyone they had coming in for a year on an international exchange of some kind, chances are there would be someone. What country they were from could of course be anywhere. But let's say someone is coming from country X and I wouldn't mind spending a year in country X. They are looking for a place to stay and exchanging a fully furnished home is pretty attractive for both parties is it not?

You don't have to furnish, arrange for phone, electric, etc. as they all exist. You don't have to sell if you own or give up your rental at home, etc. An exchange is kinda like suspended animation. A year later you go back home and all is as it was. 

In the OP's case as a university administration person, the advantage she has is that she has instant credibility with someone from another university looking to do an exchange. I just live near a university but she works in one. Someone from a university interested in an exchange will pick her over me every time if we were two choices. The OPs IN would be stronger than mine. 

That's just how people think and act. People trust those who they see as being 'like them'. Trust rests on 3 legs and they are propriety (do you act appropriately), competence (do you understand) and commonality (are you like me). That's salesmanship 101 (I should know I used to teach it). The OP has a huge psychological IN with every person in another university and it's worth looking at using that IN.


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## colchar (Oct 25, 2011)

OldPro said:


> Even a rental can be 'taken over' and saves both parties having to furnish, etc. I can take over your house/apartment while you take over mine. Who it is or what the circumstances are doesn't really matter. It's the idea that I was trying to get across.



I get the idea, but that is harder to do when dealing with a landlord. Some don't care so long as they are getting their money but others do. 





> I happen to live across the street from a sub-campus of a well known Canadian university Colchar. If I went to them and asked who if anyone they had coming in for a year on an international exchange of some kind, chances are there would be someone. What country they were from could of course be anywhere. But let's say someone is coming from country X and I wouldn't mind spending a year in country X. They are looking for a place to stay and exchanging a fully furnished home is pretty attractive for both parties is it not?


I spent a decade in academia, am very familiar with the system, and considered using it myself. The issue is that, as mentioned above, there are landlords who will have issues with an exchange like that so it is not as simple as you seem to think. If you own your home no problem, but if you rent there are other issues that have to be taken into account.


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## OldPro (Feb 18, 2015)

There are always issues that have to be taken into account colchar. There are issues that have to be taken into account with the OP's original idea. I'd say IF she could swing something through her university connections, there would be LESS issues to take into account.

As I have said, my background is in sales. So I automatically see things from that perspective. Leveraging connections is something I would first look at doing without even thinking about it. Ignoring those connections and approaching something 'cold' would to me be near insanity.

Let's take the landlord 'objection' as an example. Suppose I want to do an exchange for a year, have found someone who wants to exchange with me and now have to get the agreement of my landlord.

There is one simple question you must answer for anyone if you want them to do something. That question is, 'what's in it for me?' So in the case of the landlord, I would say that I was happy with my rental, did not want to break my lease, hoped to continue renting from him/her for several more years at least. However, I had an opportunity to spend a year in another country. While wanting to take advantage of that opportunity, I would like to return to my rental after that year. So I had given thought to how I could do that in a way that would be to the advantage of my landlord and not just to myself.

I'd then say, 'As a landlord, if I break my lease you lose your tenant and have to go through the process of finding a new tenant. That means, advertising, screening and perhaps ending up with a poor tenant or one who does not stay for very long. It may also mean you have a vacancy for several months until you find a new tenant. That is not to your advantage. 

On the other hand, I have a university administration manager who wants to exchange with me for the year. She can provide references from the University where she works and from her current landlord where she has lived for X years. If you agree to it then you will receive your rent seamlessly and I will return in a year to continue renting from you. In fact, it's not hard to see that it pretty much guarantees you the next 2 years of rent at least. Can we make this work for both of us?' 

I don't see problems colchar, I only see an objection that needs a win/win solution.

In any event, the OP has not returned to continue the discussion so you and I may well be wasting our time here. LOL


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