# UK vs USA



## condorian (Dec 9, 2009)

Hello,

My wife is from American and she would like us to move back. What i would like to know is to get an unbiased viewpoint on various matters:

+ Taxation

+ Medical Insurance

+ Child Education


Many Thanks


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## pabrit (Dec 9, 2009)

condorian said:


> Hello,
> 
> My wife is from American and she would like us to move back. What i would like to know is to get an unbiased viewpoint on various matters:
> 
> ...


I understand why you phrased the question "unbiased" but I do think you should manage your expectations. There will always be a biased in a single viewpoint. Even a professional well researched viewpoint will still be an opinion on these topics!

My perspective? I work in the healthcare industry and I and my family are in PA, from the UK, on an O-1 non-immigrant visa. I expect to be here for 3 years, but we may change our minds...

*Taxation* depends on so many aspects of your personal position. If you are a high earner or have high net worth, my opinion would be find a tax expert. Otherwise, broadly speaking total taxation is a little lower in the US for middle- high middle incomes.

*Medical insurance* in the US is complex and the degree to which you are covered is dictated by the plans available to you (as you know). In the UK, basic healthcare coverage via the national health service covers acute care pretty well, but there can be wait times in different regions for different procedures. You can jump the line by adding private coverage using CIGNA or BUPA or similar providers which will cost anything from GBP70-300 a year. Look on it as a top-up to the NHS. Neither system is inherently better than the other in my opinion.. and moving from one system to the other is the most problematic part of it, because you are disoriented. Once you are used to the new system you are in exactly the same situation as before, hoping you and your family are basically healthy!

*Child Education* is heavily region dependent. In England, Local Education authorities (run at county level) run the state schools in their district and there is a national curriculum that sets standards which are tested frequently. The results of these tests, plus onsite inspections by a national government organization called OFSTED. Look for their website and identify the area you are moving to, to see which schools are best. There is controversy about the way these league tables are drawn up and the difference between top and middle is in many cases miniscule. There will be a qualifying catchment area for each school and property prices will reflect the strength of local schools accordingly. 
The private sector is no different to that in the US (maybe slightly more expensive in my experience) and is harder to assess from a distance. Typical provincial (ex-London) schools range between $25k-$50K per year. For seriously well known schools (Eton, Charterhouse, Harrow etc) it will be more..
You really do have to do on-the-ground research with schools, knowing your kids' needs.

Comparison on a macro level: There is not much difference in outcome on the three measures you asked about. It is at the micro level (your own personal needs and position) where you may see significant differences. I would not use these parameters to make a decision to move. You have to be motivated on bigger principles and be prepared for the risk that it doesn't work out. Nickel and dime comparisons just aren't possible between these two countries.

The things that made our move from UK to US were more to do with our ability to make friends, feel settled in and feel comfortable in an environment that agreed with us. No amount of background research prior to the move will have told us about that, so we decided we'd just have to do it. (Mine was a career choice)

Good luck


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## condorian (Dec 9, 2009)

Thank-you for the reply. I agree with you, sometimes you have to look above the nickel-and-dimes comparison in a place. My wife is also in the healthcare field.

Thanks
c


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

condorian said:


> Thank-you for the reply. I agree with you, sometimes you have to look above the nickel-and-dimes comparison in a place. My wife is also in the healthcare field.
> 
> Thanks
> c


You post questions for endless discussions but give no concrete information one can use to answer your questions.
a) irs.gov
b) Google "health care us" "medical coverage us"
c) Google "us department of education" "school district ... (by state"


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

condorian said:


> Hello,
> 
> My wife is from American and she would like us to move back. What i would like to know is to get an unbiased viewpoint on various matters:
> 
> ...


Even my phone bill has nine taxes added 

you are kidding ...run by billionaire crooks 

UK is better 


But its warmer here in Florida


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

condorian said:


> Hello,
> 
> My wife is from American and she would like us to move back. What i would like to know is to get an unbiased viewpoint on various matters:
> 
> ...


Let me add my two cents from the other perspective - i.e. I'm more or less in your wife's situation. And I suppose I should admit up front that I can't imagine going back there with my French husband after 15 years of living in France.

Taxation - will actually be somewhat simplified for her, as she will no longer have to file as "married, filing separately" (which carries certain inconveniences). Overall, taxes paid in the US will probably be less than in the UK, however, if you add up all the cost of all the "public services" you have to provide for yourself in the US (medical insurance being the biggie and don't forget to provide for your retirement), you'll probably find that you pay far more in the US.

Medical insurance - currently in a huge state of flux due to all the brouhaha over the attempt to systematize health care. It's dreadfully expensive, though on the other hand, you have full access to state of the art (i.e. expensive) care and treatment. There is no "right" to health care in the US and the best that is liable to come from the pending legislation is compulsory health insurance coverage (which doesn't mean all care will be covered).

Child education - as pointed out up-thread, it varies greatly from district to district. There are a few mandates from the Federal government, but normally only the "mechanics" (like the length of the school year). There is little national interference with what is taught or when, and school districts vary from absolutely abysmal to quite excellent.
Cheers,
Bev


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## serendipity700 (Dec 18, 2009)

I am an American and my husband is British. We have lived in England and in America. We are currently in America now and have been for the last 5 years. We are now moving back to England because my husband has been laid off from his job for the last 12 months now and cannot find another one. He has 20 years experience in his field and a college degree and has applied all over the states for work and cannot get anything that pays enough to support our family. We are about to lose our house and are on our last exstension for unemployment. We have no medical coverage and have a small child. This is the case with thousands of Americans at the moment. It is a very bad situation here. I would not move here. That is just my oppinion but I know of plenty of other ppl in our same position. When my husband looked into work in his field back in England there were plenty of opportunities for him there. Even with the economy in the shape its in.


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## condorian (Dec 9, 2009)

Thank-you for your replies. I am in the in IT field and my wife is in the nursing field. I have heard and read many stories. I just dont like the idea of moving there and everything just goes wrong. At least in Europe, employees are treated are well.

c



serendipity700 said:


> I am an American and my husband is British. We have lived in England and in America. We are currently in America now and have been for the last 5 years. We are now moving back to England because my husband has been laid off from his job for the last 12 months now and cannot find another one. He has 20 years experience in his field and a college degree and has applied all over the states for work and cannot get anything that pays enough to support our family. We are about to lose our house and are on our last exstension for unemployment. We have no medical coverage and have a small child. This is the case with thousands of Americans at the moment. It is a very bad situation here. I would not move here. That is just my oppinion but I know of plenty of other ppl in our same position. When my husband looked into work in his field back in England there were plenty of opportunities for him there. Even with the economy in the shape its in.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Serendipity
20 years plus a degree says absolutely nothing about your husband's qualifications. What does he do? What improvement do you anticipate in the UK

Condorian
Good workers are a lot better off in the US. It is easier to work your way up or cross over to other industries. You are not considered a professional moss back at 40:>)
To me your posts read like you are set in your ways and change does not fit the picture. Well, some of us have tap roots while others have ants in their pants. Maybe you can explain your situation to your wife and work something out with her.


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## liclgl (Dec 18, 2009)

condorian said:


> Hello,
> 
> My wife is from American and she would like us to move back. What i would like to know is to get an unbiased viewpoint on various matters:
> 
> ...





For the near future UK is better in every way...It could change in the future, assuming the Democrats will change a few things, until then, this is the reality.


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## serendipity700 (Dec 18, 2009)

twostep said:


> Serendipity
> 20 years plus a degree says absolutely nothing about your husband's qualifications. What does he do? What improvement do you anticipate in the UK
> 
> Condorian
> ...


Well to answer your question. My husband has been in the aviation field for over 20 years. most of the jobs left here in that field all want you to be a US citizen now for security clearance. He does not want to give up his British citizenship and he also has to live here another 5 yrs to even apply for American citizenship. He has put out over 400 resumes in the last year and only had 2 interviews. I have lots of family member all over the United States in many different types of jobs who have lost there jobs and cannot find new ones due to so many ppl out of work applying for the same job. The reason I think it will be better in the UK is because he already has a job waiting there for him. And we have lost our savings due to paying out for COBRA insurance. And now are about to lose our house because of the fact that his last exstension of unemployment is about to run out. I myself am in the health care field and have already spoken to some of the ppl with the NHS and was told that I should not have a problem finding work.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

serendipity700 said:


> Well to answer your question. My husband has been in the aviation field for over 20 years. most of the jobs left here in that field all want you to be a US citizen now for security clearance. He does not want to give up his British citizenship and he also has to live here another 5 yrs to even apply for American citizenship. He has put out over 400 resumes in the last year and only had 2 interviews. I have lots of family member all over the United States in many different types of jobs who have lost there jobs and cannot find new ones due to so many ppl out of work applying for the same job. The reason I think it will be better in the UK is because he already has a job waiting there for him. And we have lost our savings due to paying out for COBRA insurance. And now are about to lose our house because of the fact that his last exstension of unemployment is about to run out. I myself am in the health care field and have already spoken to some of the ppl with the NHS and was told that I should not have a problem finding work.



Again - aviation can be anything from line boy to sr. pilot:>) I am fairly familiar with the industry. Can you go into some details? PM is fine. For starters - I bet you his resume needs TLC. Sorry but I have seen maybe ten in anumbe rof years which were written well and lacked typos. 
Why are you using COBRA instead of you filing a change in lifestyle?


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## Davis1 (Feb 20, 2009)

serendipity700 said:


> most of the jobs left here in that field all want you to be a US citizen now for security clearance. He does not want to give up his British citizenship .


You do not lose your British citizeship when you get the USA citizenship 

As the husband of a US citizen he has to have a GC for 2 years and 9 months before he can apply for US citizenship


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

twostep said:


> Again - aviation can be anything from line boy to sr. pilot:>) I am fairly familiar with the industry. Can you go into some details? PM is fine. For starters - I bet you his resume needs TLC. Sorry but I have seen maybe ten in anumbe rof years which were written well and lacked typos.
> Why are you using COBRA instead of you filing a change in lifestyle?


Spiffying up the old resume and checking for typos still doesn't guarantee anyone a job these days, especially in the US if any of the reports I'm getting from over there are even half-true. COBRA at least has the advantage of being health insurance at group rates. Private insurance generally costs far more than COBRA.

If they've got jobs waiting for them back in the UK, that may well be their best option at the moment. Not every expat situation works out for everyone.
Cheers,
Bev


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

Bevdeforges said:


> Spiffying up the old resume and checking for typos still doesn't guarantee anyone a job these days, especially in the US if any of the reports I'm getting from over there are even half-true. COBRA at least has the advantage of being health insurance at group rates. Private insurance generally costs far more than COBRA.
> 
> If they've got jobs waiting for them back in the UK, that may well be their best option at the moment. Not every expat situation works out for everyone.
> Cheers,
> Bev


I hate to contradict you Bev but have been in recruting with very close ties to aviation for almost 10 years. Nobody loves writing resumes. You can forget the ones speration services write for an employee. It is a copy of a job description. The 250-1000$ professional ones are not much better as they either get written through a matrix or by non-industry writers. Save your money. My own is pathetic. My boss wrote it:>) I read resumes from the bottom up. This takes a bit longer but I cannot speed read. So far I have not seen one without at least one typo or format issue. So much for resumes. They are a calling card. They days of "all I have to do is get an interview and I can sell myself" are history. 

Without getting personal - 20 years plus college in aviation can be everything and nothing. It matters who you know and who is open to talking to you. 

OP stated she was employed in the health industry. Generally medical coverage there is reasonable.

Why does everybody say there are no jobs in the US? They are there just not like they used to be. Finding them has changed drastically. Employment seekers must adjust to these changes or their searches will be mostly unsuccessful. You will not believe how many refuse to do so. I hear "I was ..." every day. It does not matter what you were. What matters is what do you bring to the table.

If he cannot find anything in aviation in the US - it will be harder in the UK.


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## serendipity700 (Dec 18, 2009)

twostep said:


> Again - aviation can be anything from line boy to sr. pilot:>) I am fairly familiar with the industry. Can you go into some details? PM is fine. For starters - I bet you his resume needs TLC. Sorry but I have seen maybe ten in anumbe rof years which were written well and lacked typos.
> Why are you using COBRA instead of you filing a change in lifestyle?


WOW, lets just pick apart my post shall we. Non US citizens are not allowed to apply for public assistance. There for he does not qualify for government grants to go back to school to change careers. And we sure cant afford to send him to school right now. He has been in the aircraft engineering field not that its your business. (and since you want to discredit everything I say). I am just letting this person know the other side of what is going on in the states right now. I know it isn't all flowers and happiness in the UK right now as well as I have in-laws struggling there to. But our prospects,medical insurance,and general backup system of family and friends is much more promising there. I have lived both places and equally like them. But at least I can't lose everything I own over not having medical insurance in England.


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## twostep (Apr 3, 2008)

You have made your decison. Good luck!
I assume your husband holds a GC - he is entitled to unemployment benefits (which have a medical coverage option) and government funded education programs.


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## serendipity700 (Dec 18, 2009)

Bevdeforges said:


> Spiffying up the old resume and checking for typos still doesn't guarantee anyone a job these days, especially in the US if any of the reports I'm getting from over there are even half-true. COBRA at least has the advantage of being health insurance at group rates. Private insurance generally costs far more than COBRA.
> 
> If they've got jobs waiting for them back in the UK, that may well be their best option at the moment. Not every expat situation works out for everyone.
> Cheers,
> Bev


Thank you. I appreciate it. I have nothing against either country. I was just trying to put out a very realistic veiw of what alot of ppl are going through here right now.


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