# new rules for health care in spain from april 2014



## kren47 (Oct 13, 2013)

Heard on grape vine that as from 2014 uk expats by nhs health care. Is this correct, I am thinking of coming over next year. I am retired but my partner is not. Any info much appreciated. 
Thanks. Keith


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

kren47 said:


> Heard on grape vine that as from 2014 uk expats by nhs health care. Is this correct, I am thinking of coming over next year. I am retired but my partner is not. Any info much appreciated.
> Thanks. Keith


:welcome:
I'm not sure what you mean.... 

if you mean that the UK will stop issuing S1 forms in April next year for non-pensioners, then that apparently IS the case


http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...longer-available-after-31st-march-2014-a.html

if so, that's nothing to do with Spain - _*that's a new UK rule *_


----------



## Sirtravelot (Jul 20, 2011)

Is it just me, or does this mean even more British will leave Spain?


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Sirtravelot said:


> Is it just me, or does this mean even more British will leave Spain?


????

Why should they leave Spain??

If they are here already then the changes will have no effect!

If they are pensioners here then the changes will have no effect!

The changes only affect people moving to Spain after March next year and then only for NON-pensioners. Put simply, early retirees will have to fund the first couple of years health care where, in the past, they might have had reciprocal cover via the S1.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> ????
> 
> Why should they leave Spain??
> 
> ...


exactly!!

although it MIGHT (& I suspect will) affect non-pensioners who have S1s because their partner is paying NI in the UK (or elsewhere) & they qualify for them that way. These have to be renewed annually, & the UK has no legal obligation under EU rules to issue them, any more than the S1s to early retirees, which they are stopping. 

however, since Spain has just launched the 'buy in ' scheme, where you pay something like 60€ a month for full access to state healthcare, that might help.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Sirtravelot said:


> Is it just me, or does this mean even more British will leave Spain?


as snikpoh said, it won't make a difference for the vast majority already here

and it's not just Spain, either - they won't be issuing them *to anyone in those circumstances, going anywhere *


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> exactly!!
> 
> although it MIGHT (& I suspect will) affect non-pensioners who have S1s because their partner is paying NI in the UK (or elsewhere) & they qualify for them that way. These have to be renewed annually, & the UK has no legal obligation under EU rules to issue them, any more than the S1s to early retirees, which they are stopping.
> 
> however, since Spain has just launched the 'buy in ' scheme, where you pay something like 60€ a month for full access to state healthcare, that might help.


Hi Lynn, where do I find details of this 'buy in scheme' - they seem to have kept it VERY quiet?

Is that 60€ per person or per family? Would it be 300 for us (5 x 60)?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> Hi Lynn, where do I find details of this 'buy in scheme' - they seem to have kept it VERY quiet?
> 
> Is that 60€ per person or per family? Would it be 300 for us (5 x 60)?


per person I believe


I'll track the link down later - have to run to the day job now!!


----------



## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> per person I believe I'll track the link down later - have to run to the day job now!!


 I agree with Lynn, it clearly states its per individual. Having said that, as far as I can see here http://www.seg-social.es/Internet_6/Masinformacion/TramitesyGestiones/AsistenciaSanitaria/index.htm it says that children receive the same cover as spanish residents, but I can't see how they register. 

As far paying is concerned, its RD 576/2013 which you can find here http://www.boe.es/diario_boe/txt.php?id=BOE-A-2013-8190 its been in force since 1st September.


----------



## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

snikpoh said:


> Hi Lynn, where do I find details of this 'buy in scheme' - they seem to have kept it VERY quiet? Is that 60&#128; per person or per family? Would it be 300 for us (5 x 60)?


Just suddenly realised, you've been here since 2007, and i'd be surprised if you didn't register on the Registro de Extranjeros (the green certificate) before 24th April 2012. Assuming this is the case, and your income is below €100,000, then you would qualify for free heathcare under ley 1192/2012. 
http://www.boe.es/diario_boe/txt.php?id=BOE-A-2012-10477


You just need a letter from Newcastle to say you have no rights to healthcare in the UK. The link i posted to the INSS, has a link to the form. Let me know if you can't find it.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

CapnBilly said:


> Just suddenly realised, you've been here since 2007, and i'd be surprised if you didn't register on the Registro de Extranjeros (the green certificate) before 24th April 2012. Assuming this is the case, and your income is below €100,000, then you would qualify for free heathcare under ley 1192/2012.
> BOE.es - Documento BOE-A-2012-10477
> 
> 
> You just need a letter from Newcastle to say you have no rights to healthcare in the UK. The link i posted to the INSS, has a link to the form. Let me know if you can't find it.


Please, please, let's not start all this again.

We know what the law says and we know what the officials in Valencia say - they are NOT the same.

We went through the entire process twice - with all the correct paperwork and with help from the consulate. In the end the consulate admitted defeat and told us to give up trying - despite having the law on our side!


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Sirtravelot said:


> Is it just me, or does this mean even more British will leave Spain?



No as it does not effect anyone already there. We will be arriving, and not worried, as we had always included PH care in our figures, the fact the we are arriving in time to get an S1 is a bonus and for us the first thing we have ever timed properly!!


xabiachica said:


> exactly!!
> 
> although it MIGHT (& I suspect will) affect non-pensioners who have S1s because their partner is paying NI in the UK (or elsewhere) & they qualify for them that way. These have to be renewed annually, & the UK has no legal obligation under EU rules to issue them, any more than the S1s to early retirees, which they are stopping.
> 
> however, since Spain has just launched the 'buy in ' scheme, where you pay something like 60€ a month for full access to state healthcare, that might help.



 missed this one? Will wait for your link Xabiachica
x


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

> a) Proof of actual residence in Spain for a continuous period of one year immediately preceding the date of application of the special agreement.
> 
> b) Be registered voters at the time of submitting the application for subscription of the special agreement, in any municipality within the territorial scope to extend their skills to the competent public for subscription.
> 
> c) Not having access to a system of public health protection by any other means, either by application of national legislation with EU regulations on social security or bilateral agreements in this matter have been concluded by Spain with other countries.


From what I can see the main criteria is you must have already lived there a year, so if this remains then we will be ok post S1 expiring


Section B

Registered voters? Once you have your paperwork in Spain can you vote? not sure how this works


----------



## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

snikpoh said:


> Please, please, let's not start all this again.
> 
> We know what the law says and we know what the officials in Valencia say - they are NOT the same.
> 
> We went through the entire process twice - with all the correct paperwork and with help from the consulate. In the end the consulate admitted defeat and told us to give up trying - despite having the law on our side!


Well, if you want me to stop trying to make helpful comments I will. However, having said that, the law that allows you to pay is all part of the same law that entitles you to free healthcare.

I don't know when you tried, but it is of course possible that the training has caught up. The link I provided actually goes to the form you have to complete, where you certify your income, as well as it actually says on the INSS site link.

My private health expires at the of the year, and as I have to cancel by the end of the month I registered in Denia last week. Made an appointment online, went in with the paperwork. Took us 10 minutes, absolutely no problems.


----------



## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

cambio said:


> From what I can see the main criteria is you must have already lived there a year, so if this remains then we will be ok post S1 expiring
> 
> 
> Section B
> ...


When it says registered voter, it means being on the "padron" which is the voting register, and allows you to vote in local and european (but not national) elections. Y


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I shall now make myself really unpopular - altho I'm simply playing devils advocate for a moment. 

NI = national insurance. On that basis, now think about House insurance, car insurance, "private" health insurance. How many of those can you stop paying and leave, but then expect them to still cover you because you've paid them £1000s during your life time???? Should we not feel this about NI?? Staying in the UK means you would be covered

Sorry - I'll get me coat 

Jo xx


----------



## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

jojo said:


> I shall now make myself really unpopular - altho I'm simply playing devils advocate for a moment.
> 
> NI = national insurance. On that basis, now think about House insurance, car insurance, "private" health insurance. How many of those can you stop paying and leave, but then expect them to still cover you because you've paid them £1000s during your life time???? Should we not feel this about NI?? Staying in the UK means you would be covered
> 
> ...


Out the door with no coat

but seriously, they're just trying to regularise something which is already happening.


----------



## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

jojo said:


> I shall now make myself really unpopular - altho I'm simply playing devils advocate for a moment.
> 
> NI = national insurance. On that basis, now think about House insurance, car insurance, "private" health insurance. How many of those can you stop paying and leave, but then expect them to still cover you because you've paid them £1000s during your life time???? Should we not feel this about NI?? Staying in the UK means you would be covered
> 
> ...


To be honest there is a part of me that totally agrees with you. Yes if people stay in the UK they will be covered, but then again, arrive in the UK, and you are still covered. I don't know, to be honest I no longer care. If I can benefit from free health care then I will, if I have to pay, then I will, I am at this point beyond caring.
Dont get your coat:lalala: xxxxx


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

cambio said:


> To be honest there is a part of me that totally agrees with you. Yes if people stay in the UK they will be covered, but then again, arrive in the UK, and you are still covered. I don't know, to be honest I no longer care. If I can benefit from free health care then I will, if I have to pay, then I will, I am at this point beyond caring.
> Dont get your coat:lalala: xxxxx


I totally agree with you and know how you feel! I just thought I'd post another way of looking at it!!! 

Jo xxx


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

jojo said:


> I shall now make myself really unpopular - altho I'm simply playing devils advocate for a moment.
> 
> NI = national insurance. On that basis, now think about House insurance, car insurance, "private" health insurance. How many of those can you stop paying and leave, but then expect them to still cover you because you've paid them £1000s during your life time???? Should we not feel this about NI?? Staying in the UK means you would be covered
> 
> ...


NI isn't the same as private insurance. You pay your contributions over the years you are working, in order to get entitlement to certain benefits when you are no longer working, including state pensions, jobseekers' allowance and maternity allowance.

You can be entitled to free healthcare even if you have never paid a penny in NI, because in the UK access to the NHS is based (until now at least!) on residency.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Alcalaina said:


> NI isn't the same as private insurance. You pay your contributions over the years you are working, in order to get entitlement to certain benefits when you are no longer working, including state pensions, jobseekers' allowance and maternity allowance.
> 
> You can be entitled to free healthcare even if you have never paid a penny in NI, because in the UK access to the NHS is based (until now at least!) on residency.


Yes, I know its not quite the same, but initially that was how it started - but was meant to be lifelong to look after the citizens who could no longer pay in due to health, circumstance and/or age. It has got totally out of hand

Jo xxx


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

CapnBilly said:


> Well, if you want me to stop trying to make helpful comments I will. However, having said that, the law that allows you to pay is all part of the same law that entitles you to free healthcare.
> 
> I don't know when you tried, but it is of course possible that the training has caught up. The link I provided actually goes to the form you have to complete, where you certify your income, as well as it actually says on the INSS site link.
> 
> My private health expires at the of the year, and as I have to cancel by the end of the month I registered in Denia last week. Made an appointment online, went in with the paperwork. Took us 10 minutes, absolutely no problems.


Thanks for offering to help. I've probably taken up more than my fair share of time on this topic already. People tell me what the law states and I then report back the truth of the situation!

Denia comes under Alicante and not Valencia and I think this is where the problem lies.

I have filled in all the correct forms, supplied them with the necessary DWP documents only to be told that I was not eligible. I even supplied them with a copy of the Royal Decree only to be told that this did not apply to foreigners!!!

I really have been 'round this loop so many times and have also tried to escalate the problem .....


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

CapnBilly said:


> When it says registered voter, it means being on the "padron" which is the voting register, and allows you to vote in local and european (but not national) elections. Y


er - no it doesn't

if you want to vote you have to register separately


----------



## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

snickpoh, 'hojas de reclamacion' & a complaint to the EU through Solvit.


----------



## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> er - no it doesn't if you want to vote you have to register separately


 this is true, I know that


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> er - no it doesn't
> 
> if you want to vote you have to register separately


Where do you have to register to be able to vote in local elections


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Where do you have to register to be able to vote in local elections


well, here, you used to go through the door, turn left for the padrón & right for registering to vote


since the padrón registration is now in a brand new ayto/citizens attention building (very bad Spanish/English translation there, sorry  ) I'd guess that you have to go there


so - the ayuntamiento?


----------



## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

xabiachica said:


> well, here, you used to go through the door, turn left for the padrón & right for registering to vote
> 
> 
> since the padrón registration is now in a brand new ayto/citizens attention building (very bad Spanish/English translation there, sorry  ) I'd guess that you have to go there
> ...


I believe thats correct. IIRC we went to the ayuntamiento and completed the form.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

cambio said:


> No as it does not effect anyone already there. We will be arriving, and not worried, as we had always included PH care in our figures, the fact the we are arriving in time to get an S1 is a bonus and for us the first thing we have ever timed properly!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yes, they've kept it pretty quiet.....


CapnBilly has posted the link


----------



## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

snikpoh said:


> Thanks for offering to help. I've probably taken up more than my fair share of time on this topic already. People tell me what the law states and I then report back the truth of the situation!
> 
> Denia comes under Alicante and not Valencia and I think this is where the problem lies.
> 
> ...


Well, its a national law, not regional. So, my final word is that ley 6/2008 of Valencia covering public health, was amended on 21st December 2012 specifically Article 8 which covers eligibility. It was amended by article 127 of ley 10/2012 specifically to incorporate ley 16/2012, which was the law which established the rights to free healthcare. 

Otherwise I can only repeat that its all set out on the INSS link and the form.

I shall say no more.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

gus-lopez said:


> snickpoh, 'hojas de reclamacion' & a complaint to the EU through Solvit.


Tried to go through solvit - at your suggestion some time ago but had no joy.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> well, here, you used to go through the door, turn left for the padrón & right for registering to vote
> 
> 
> since the padrón registration is now in a brand new ayto/citizens attention building (very bad Spanish/English translation there, sorry  ) I'd guess that you have to go there
> ...


Well, these things change all the time and from region to region, but I've voted in local elections since 1994 and have never had to do anything. We're always told to check that our name is on the electoral list beore the election date, but I, until now anyway, have always received something through the post to say I'm registered already.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Well, these things change all the time and from region to region, but I've voted in local elections since 1994 and have never had to do anything. We're always told to check that our name is on the electoral list beore the election date, but I, until now anyway, have always received something through the post to say I'm registered already.


you must have registered at some point then 

maybe getting 'residencia' in the old days registered you on the electoral list? 

I know that you have to make a special effort to register now - it isn't just automatic when you go on the padrón


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> you must have registered at some point then
> 
> maybe getting 'residencia' in the old days registered you on the electoral list?
> 
> I know that you have to make a special effort to register now - it isn't just automatic when you go on the padrón


We went on the padrón when we arrived and voted in the last Euro elections with no problem.

Then when we wanted to vote in the municipal elections in May 2011 we were told we couldn't, because we weren't on the electoral roll - we were supposed to have checked by the end of March to see if we were on the list!

So with Euro elections coming up next year we will make sure we get ourselves on the list in good time.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> you must have registered at some point then
> 
> maybe getting 'residencia' in the old days registered you on the electoral list?
> 
> I know that you have to make a special effort to register now - it isn't just automatic when you go on the padrón


So, when are the next municipales, do you know?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> So, when are the next municipales, do you know?


2015 - May, I think?


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> 2015 - May, I think?


ok, there's time then


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> 2015 - May, I think?


That's right, they have four-year terms.

Can't wait ... our Ayto has been paralysed by a coalition where the two sides hate each other.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> That's right, they have four-year terms.
> 
> Can't wait ... our Ayto has been paralysed by a coalition where the two sides hate each other.


ours has surprisingly worked really well


although recently a few 'wrinkles' have appeared....


----------

