# Utility costs for 1700 sq ft house?



## elizadoo (Nov 12, 2014)

My husband (69) and I (55) have been visiting MX off and on over the years, as we have all Central American countries as well as Colombia, Venezuela, and Peru. We are from Key West and are very accustomed to a "Latin" attitude and lifestyle. Both of us speak intermediate (but not fluent) Spanish. 

After much soul-searching we have decided to purchase a 3 BR 3BA home in Cuernavaca appx 1700 sq ft. The house was built to not require a/c due to the direction it faces, the thick, walls, and window placement. Excellent natural light all day. For lighting we would be using LED bulbs. The house has a large cistern and 2 water tanks.

There is a shallow pool appx 12 x 24 feet. Gas stove, asher and dryer but we would not use the dryer unless absolutely necessary. Small-ish yard with no grass, primarily ferns and tiles/flagstones. We would use ceiling fans when necessary, as well as computers. Double electric garage doors. One car, a 2012 Toyota RAV4 which we would use infrequently as we would be in a central location that would allow us to walk to most services as well as Costco, the local market and farmacias, and we will take buses, taxis, and collecivos. 

Does anyone have an estimate of monthly (or annual) utility costs? We would use electric, gas, water, potable water (in the 25 gallon jugs), sewer, trash, and we would require cable/internet in the equivalent of 25-50 mbps. Also, some kind of alarm service?

Currently here in the USA in our modest 1700 sq ft ranch (Florida) we pay: electric appx $180 month (avg over 12 months), water and sewer $130 month, basic cable with internet $140 month, yard service $80 month for 2x mowing lawn, taxes $2700 year, insurance $2400 year, alarm service $25- month. Car insurance $1800 year, gas is variable. The kicker is my health insurance with no health problems and $2500- deductible $50 co-pay which is $820- A MONTH. Our ranch house, built in the 1950s and in a neighborhood of similar homes of middle-class people, has an appx. value of $330,000. The houses we are looking at in Cuernavaca of similar size (which also all include aguest cottage/bunglow) are about $250K in price. 

Thanks for any info.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

elizadoo said:


> My husband (69) and I (55) have been visiting MX off and on over the years, as we have all Central American countries as well as Colombia, Venezuela, and Peru. We are from Key West and are very accustomed to a "Latin" attitude and lifestyle. Both of us speak intermediate (but not fluent) Spanish. After much soul-searching we have decided to purchase a 3 BR 3BA home in Cuernavaca appx 1700 sq ft. The house was built to not require a/c due to the direction it faces, the thick, walls, and window placement. Excellent natural light all day. For lighting we would be using LED bulbs. The house has a large cistern and 2 water tanks. There is a shallow pool appx 12 x 24 feet. Gas stove, asher and dryer but we would not use the dryer unless absolutely necessary. Small-ish yard with no grass, primarily ferns and tiles/flagstones. We would use ceiling fans when necessary, as well as computers. Double electric garage doors. One car, a 2012 Toyota RAV4 which we would use infrequently as we would be in a central location that would allow us to walk to most services as well as Costco, the local market and farmacias, and we will take buses, taxis, and collecivos. Does anyone have an estimate of monthly (or annual) utility costs? We would use electric, gas, water, potable water (in the 25 gallon jugs), sewer, trash, and we would require cable/internet in the equivalent of 25-50 mbps. Also, some kind of alarm service? Currently here in the USA in our modest 1700 sq ft ranch (Florida) we pay: electric appx $180 month (avg over 12 months), water and sewer $130 month, basic cable with internet $140 month, yard service $80 month for 2x mowing lawn, taxes $2700 year, insurance $2400 year, alarm service $25- month. Car insurance $1800 year, gas is variable. The kicker is my health insurance with no health problems and $2500- deductible $50 co-pay which is $820- A MONTH. Our ranch house, built in the 1950s and in a neighborhood of similar homes of middle-class people, has an appx. value of $330,000. The houses we are looking at in Cuernavaca of similar size (which also all include aguest cottage/bunglow) are about $250K in price. Thanks for any info.


When you make more posts you are allowed to send a private message, send me one then
Bienvenidos!


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## Andreas_Montoya (Jan 12, 2013)

Our home is similar, our bill averaged 540 pesos a month.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

elizadoo said:


> My husband (69) and I (55) have been visiting MX off and on over the years, as we have all Central American countries as well as Colombia, Venezuela, and Peru. We are from Key West and are very accustomed to a "Latin" attitude and lifestyle. Both of us speak intermediate (but not fluent) Spanish.
> 
> After much soul-searching we have decided to purchase a 3 BR 3BA home in Cuernavaca appx 1700 sq ft. The house was built to not require a/c due to the direction it faces, the thick, walls, and window placement. Excellent natural light all day. For lighting we would be using LED bulbs. The house has a large cistern and 2 water tanks.
> 
> ...


Just a few thoughts on your post.

- I suggest you rent for at least 6 months before you buy. It could take you YEARS to sell your house should you decide you want to make a change.
- Since LED bulbs are expensive, if the house isn't already setup with LED bulbs it will be quite some time before you save the cost of the bulbs.
- I question that you will be doing all the walking you think, particularly weighed down with groceries. Crime isn't as bad as you often hear, but you have to 'use your head'.
- I think you mean 5 gallon water jugs ? We did that for a while but had a reverse osmosis system installed at the kitchen sink. Cost around $250 USD at Home Depot. It is a lot easier than lugging those water jugs around. But we are on a well.
- The power company divides Mexico up into a series of zones and the pricing varies. People in the hot coastal areas are in 'cheaper' zones. Cuernavaca is in the most expensive zone. (visit the CFE website). If you enter DAC (which is easy to do) your electric can get pricey.
- You won't need to run your pool pump as often as you do in South Florida. The pool pump could easily be half your electric bill if you are not careful.
- Don't get upset if you pay for 25-50 mbps internet and find you get less. We pay for 10 and get 5, which is enough for us to stream movies etc. Also - some ISPs might be betters than others. 
- For the peace of mind you might you might want to consider a Fracc. with security

@17.40 pesos to the dollar.
- we pay the fumigator (for the garden) $35 USD/month (1 visit - we buy chemicals)
- we pay the gardeners (3 people/3 hours/2x per month) $35 USD/visit
- our well water (house and garden) runs perhaps $250 USD / year.
- we put in a PV system and now pay $1/month for electric.
- our top of the line auto insurance is less than $1K/year/car (maybe a little less)
- I'm going to guess and say if you pay $250K for a house your property taxes will be about $1K/year (with discounts).
- IMSS insurance will cost the two of you (per year) roughly what you pay per month in the US - but it is a different experience. Also - there is an age at which it is virtually impossible to get private insurance. And there might be a cap on new IMSS subscriptions as well - don't know.
- we spend about $25 USD/month nat gas.
- we spend about $30 USD/month for land line / internet with Telmex.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Our house is similar, no pool, and built it from scratch for $65,000(wife owned the lot). We spend about 650p a month (water, gas, electric, cable with internet, cell phone (1 amigo). We had an electric fence installed above the house about 7 years ago for $500USD. Chuck846 gives a LOT of Good advice. Rent, rent, and rent. WE rented for 6 years, in 4 different areas and communities, before we decided to build. You will change your mind several times before you get it right for you. Selling can often take YEARS, unless you don't mind taking a BIG loss. Mexicans understand that Americans are always in a hurry, and will sacrifice because of that. Bottom line, you can use and lose Your money any way you decide. Good luck.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

chuck846 said:


> .
> @17.40 pesos to the dollar.
> 
> - I'm going to guess and say if you pay $250K for a house your property taxes will be about $1K/year (with discounts).


This property tax seems high to me. While our house in Tepoztlan (about 20 minutes from Cuernavaca) is currently much smaller - but getting bigger each year as we add on - this year our _predial_ (property tax) was about MXN$700 = US$40 for the year. Our lot is about 700 m2 (7500 sq ft). 

And some friends of ours have a 3 BR 2 bath house + a separate 2 BR apartment and they pay less than we do (in Tepoz). 

I know our _predial _would be higher if our house had been bigger when assessed, but that's a 25 fold difference. Or is Cuernavaca that much more expensive than Tepoz?


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

ojosazules11 said:


> This property tax seems high to me. While our house in Tepoztlan (about 20 minutes from Cuernavaca) is currently much smaller - but getting bigger each year as we add on - this year our _predial_ (property tax) was about MXN$700 = US$40 for the year. Our lot is about 700 m2 (7500 sq ft).
> 
> And some friends of ours have a 3 BR 2 bath house + a separate 2 BR apartment and they pay less than we do (in Tepoz).
> 
> I know our _predial _would be higher if our house had been bigger when assessed, but that's a 25 fold difference. Or is Cuernavaca that much more expensive than Tepoz?


I believe that the property tax relates to the tax value they place on your house. In Leon, our house was valued at 800,000p before it was complete (5-6 years ago) and they still use that. We pay 1,499.91p a year for our predial, based on that value. A house valued at 250,000USD x 17.4 =4.3M pesos, would be about 5.4 times ours, so maybe 8,000+pesos (in Leon), maybe. However, different areas have different tax rates, nothing is standard.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

ojosazules11 said:


> This property tax seems high to me. While our house in Tepoztlan (about 20 minutes from Cuernavaca) is currently much smaller - but getting bigger each year as we add on - this year our _predial_ (property tax) was about MXN$700 = US$40 for the year. Our lot is about 700 m2 (7500 sq ft).
> 
> And some friends of ours have a 3 BR 2 bath house + a separate 2 BR apartment and they pay less than we do (in Tepoz).
> 
> I know our _predial _would be higher if our house had been bigger when assessed, but that's a 25 fold difference. Or is Cuernavaca that much more expensive than Tepoz?


In January of this year we paid 17,170 predial AND 4,678 servicios municipales = 21,848 total @ 17.40 = 1255 USD. That is with the INAPAM discount and whatever 'early payment' discounts were available.

So I was wrong - I'd say in Cuernavaca on a house purchased for $250K you might spend $650 USD in property taxes per year. I believe the taxes are based on value not size/location etc.

I also am about 20 minutes from Cuernavaca - AND - about 20 minutes from Teopoztlan 

Edit : still better than the 14K USD we paid in the States !


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

chuck846 said:


> In January of this year we paid 17,170 predial AND 4,678 servicios municipales = 21,848 total @ 17.40 = 1255 USD. That is with the INAPAM discount and whatever 'early payment' discounts were available.
> 
> So I was wrong - I'd say in Cuernavaca on a house purchased for $250K you might spend $650 USD in property taxes per year. I believe the taxes are based on value not size/location etc.
> 
> ...


I agree, that is really high. I pay about $1500 mxn (< $100 usd) on about 2500 sq ft (267 m***2)


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

TundraGreen said:


> I agree, that is really high. I pay about $1500 mxn (< $100 usd) on about 2500 sq ft (267 m***2)


Perhaps - but the original poster didn't want to be YOUR neighbor, she wants to be OUR neighbor 

Edit : and there were people in line with us this year who were paying a LOT more than we were.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

GARYJ65 said:


> When you make more posts you are allowed to send a private message, send me one then
> Bienvenidos!


When the OP has made 5 posts, she will be able to send and receive private messages.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

Isla Verde said:


> When the OP has made 5 posts, she will be able to send and receive private messages.


Looks like she has already made 17 posts - no ?


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

GARYJ65 said:


> When you make more posts you are allowed to send a private message, send me one then
> Bienvenidos!


In general, Gary, it's more helpful for everyone if information is provided on the open forum rather than via PM's.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

chuck846 said:


> Perhaps - but the original poster didn't want to be YOUR neighbor, she wants to be OUR neighbor
> 
> Edit : and there were people in line with us this year who were paying a LOT more than we were.


Interesting. I assumed property taxes were different in different places, but the range is greater than I would have guessed.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

TundraGreen said:


> Interesting. I assumed property taxes were different in different places, but the range is greater than I would have guessed.


Hey man - there is a price to pay for 'Eternal Spring'


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

coondawg said:


> I believe that the property tax relates to the tax value they place on your house. In Leon, our house was valued at 800,000p before it was complete (5-6 years ago) and they still use that. We pay 1,499.91p a year for our predial, based on that value. A house valued at 250,000USD x 17.4 =4.3M pesos, would be about 5.4 times ours, so maybe 8,000+pesos (in Leon), maybe. However, different areas have different tax rates, nothing is standard.


Yes, we also had our house and property evaluated for Catastro when it was essentially a 5 m x 9 m house, so the value they used to calculate the _predial _was very low. And to the best of my knowledge there is no regular reappraisal as long as we own the house, even though the house is already nearly double what it was then, with more to come. 

Furthermore, the value they used to calculate the _predial_ was quite low based on current prices in Tepoztlan. So we definitely got a break on our property taxes.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

ojosazules11 said:


> Yes, we also had our house and property evaluated for Catastro when it was essentially a 5 m x 9 m house, so the value they used to calculate the _predial _was very low. And to the best of my knowledge there is no regular reappraisal as long as we own the house, even though the house is already nearly double what it was then, with more to come.
> 
> Furthermore, the value they used to calculate the _predial_ was quite low based on current prices in Tepoztlan. So we definitely got a break on our property taxes.


We are not looking to nickel and dime anyone. We are happy to be here and look upon the taxes as doing our part to help. (I just hope the help gets to where it is needed).


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

chuck846 said:


> We are not looking to nickel and dime anyone. We are happy to be here and look upon the taxes as doing our part to help. (I just hope the help gets to where it is needed).


Sadly, that is often not the case.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

elizadoo said:


> We would use electric, gas, water, potable water (in the 25 gallon jugs), sewer, trash, and we would require cable/internet in the equivalent of 25-50 mbps. Also, some kind of alarm service?


Our house is a similar size, although in Mexico City, so I don’t know how different costs would be than in Cuernavaca. 
•We were paying 2500 to 2800 pesos every two months for electricity, but after we installed LED bulbs we went down to under 1000. Apparently the usage went down enough to bump us into a lower rate.
•We have to fill our 300 L gas tank about every 85 days, and it currently costs about 1600 pesos, sometimes a little more if it was very empty.
•We pay about 120 pesos every two months for water.
•We pay 37 pesos for a 20-L carboy of potable water.
•Sewer isn’t billed separately.
•Trash pickup is provided by the city, but it is normal to pay extra in the form of tips. We pay about 3 to 5 pesos each time, and more if it’s an especially big load.
•We were paying 999 pesos a month for Telmex telephone plus Infinitum internet, for the package that supposedly goes up to 100 mbps, but we recently discovered there was a cap on our line  that was keeping it under 5! So we got it “fixed” and it went up to 10. We are going to move to a lower package that costs 389 a month!
•We have VeTV cable from Sky, their most basic service. It costs 185 per month, plus 100 more for each additional TV.
•No info about alarm services, but we got a dog. Then we got another dog. They bark at night, and so do the neighbours’ dogs. All of them.

In Mexico City, there’s no need for air conditioning; it never gets hot enough. A few days a year the temperature goes over 30 ºC, but only if you’re standing in the sun. The inside of the house never gets too hot. Cuernavaca always seems to be a couple degrees warmer than Mexico City, though.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

But ya know - the cost of utilities is NOT a function of the size of the house - but how the house is used - how many people are using it. Our house could be five times larger - but if it is just the two of us using it - our utilities charges won't be any different.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

Good point but only mostly true. The larger the house, the more lights, and the more room to put appliances. So a frugal couple who avoids collecting appliances might use the same amount of power no matter how large their house, but (mumble mumble new coffee maker).


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

maesonna said:


> Good point but only mostly true. The larger the house, the more lights, and the more room to put appliances. So a frugal couple who avoids collecting appliances might use the same amount of power no matter how large their house, but (mumble mumble new coffee maker).


We have a whole 'grandmother' quarters upstairs - used by the son of the previous owner when he visited from Germany. It has a kitchen, bath, living room, bedroom and outside patio. I have my desk up there because it has a great view of popo - but the energy I use for my computer upstairs - would be used downstairs if I were to move it.

But you are right - most people don't realize how much energy their coffee makers use.

And while we are talking about energy efficiency - CFE does offer a 'free' service to visit your 'place' and tell you where you are spending your energy - and gives advice on how to 'fix' it.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

chuck846 said:


> But ya know - the cost of utilities is NOT a function of the size of the house - but how the house is used - how many people are using it. Our house could be five times larger - but if it is just the two of us using it - our utilities charges won't be any different.


I could not convince the water company in Chapala of that. My water bill annually was double of my neighbors' across the street. I had a 3 bedroom, 2 bath house with small yard. He has 2 bedrooms, 1 bath and large yard. There were 2 of us in our house. My neighbor had 7. Bill was based on bedrooms and bathrooms, no meter at that time.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

coondawg said:


> I could not convince the water company in Chapala of that. My water bill annually was double of my neighbors' across the street. I had a 3 bedroom, 2 bath house with small yard. He has 2 bedrooms, 1 bath and large yard. There were 2 of us in our house. My neighbor had 7. Bill was based on bedrooms and bathrooms, no meter at that time.


In South Florida the property appraiser used bedroom/bathroom count in determining home (tax) value - which is why we didn't rush to correct their data until we moved to sell the place  Otherwise - our utilities have always been based on consumption.

But come to think about it - in South Florida they charged you differently if you had a 1/2" or 3/4" connection for water - regardless of consumption. Talk about arrogance ! They can't offer acceptable water pressure at 1/2" - so you have to pay more to get it ...


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

chuck846 said:


> - They can't offer acceptable water pressure at 1/2" - so you have to pay more to get it ...


Speaking of water pressure, when we built our house in Leon, I asked my father-in-law, who was the builder, if 1/2" was big enough to give good water pressure. He said it was plenty big. We still cry about that, as good for him is not what this Texas boy has had with 1/2" in Texas. We could have put in 3/4" for almost nothing more, but he had never seen real water pressure.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Make coffee, turn off coffee maker, pour coffee into an insulated carafe. Electric meter slows or stops.


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## maesonna (Jun 10, 2008)

Yes, indeed. We’ve never used a coffee maker in a ‘keep warm’ mode. We also gave up using our electric kettles to boil water (a Canadian custom) when we moved here. The biggest power users, though, were the space heaters. In Canada they were an efficient way to just keep one room warm instead of turning up the thermostat and heating the whole house, but here they sent the power bill shooting upwards. We invested in good duvets instead.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

Cats !


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

coondawg said:


> chuck846 said:
> 
> 
> > - They can't offer acceptable water pressure at 1/2" - so you have to pay more to get it ...
> ...


In Cuernavaca we have a gizmo on the roof to bump water pressure into the house.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

chuck846 said:


> We are not looking to nickel and dime anyone. We are happy to be here and look upon the taxes as doing our part to help. (I just hope the help gets to where it is needed).


We certainly aren't looking to nickel and dime anyone, either. We paid to register with Catastro, as it had never been registered before and no _predial_ paid in the past. This is apparently the case with many properties in Tepoztlan, especially those passed down within families. We paid for their assessor to come and evaluate the property and for their surveyor and an arquitect to draw new plans, including an aerial photograph.

The Catastro office tells us what we owe and we pay it.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

ojosazules11 said:


> We certainly aren't looking to nickel and dime anyone, either. We paid to register with Catastro, as it had never been registered before and no _predial_ paid in the past. This is apparently the case with many properties in Tepoztlan, especially those passed down within families. We paid for their assessor to come and evaluate the property and for their surveyor and an arquitect to draw new plans, including an aerial photograph.
> 
> The Catastro office tells us what we owe and we pay it.


My wife had been paying taxes on the lot. When we went for the city permits to build, they gave us a timetable, permits, and had to approve our plans (we had to change one bathroom, as it had no outside window( not allowed). When we got to the point that the house was livable, we went back and told them we were moving in, and we needed final approval. They came out, measured areas, and would not approve until we changed 2 rooftop drains that went into the street (not allowed) to within our property. They then sent us an approval and a tax value. They said that any major improvements would need another permit, or the fine would be expensive when discovered. We have made none, as we explained when they came for the inspection.


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## elizadoo (Nov 12, 2014)

From the OP--thanks for everyone's replies. You have been so helpful! Please keep the information coming.

Our biggest concern: are we going to spend more money to live in Cuernavaca than Sarasota, Florida, meanwhile reducing the quality of our life? I can't possibly imagine we would, but then again, who knows? In the past (in our Key West home, and Sarasota) we used solar water heating panels for our pool and home. In Key West we had an underground cistern. Right now in our present small ranch in Sarasota we bought $300 USD worth of LED lights and installed them throughout the house. We noticed our electric bill decrease by 1/3 (by $40-$50 a month) but more importantly we noticed how much cooler the house is when the lights are on. We bought undercounter LED strips from HD and installed those, along with a transformer. Of course when we move we will not take the strips from under our counter, but you can bet I will unscrew every LED light and bring them with me, along with the original reciepts from 9 months ago, when I purchased them. 

My husband has a sailboat with solar panels and he knows how to "do the battery thing". We are talking about PV power, although frankly, I don't know if the investment is worth it if we don't use a/c or a dryer, or space heaters. Our biggest electric usage would be: 1) the pool pump 2) the microwave and refrigerator 3) the computers, of which we might be using 2 simultaneously, and 4) the television. As far as coffee, we use a Moka on the stove burner.

I have a question regarding taxes--is the tax rate based on the size of the property, and the puchase price paid by the new owners? In Florida, once a buyer purchases a property, the rate can only increase 3% a year, regardless of property vlaue increases...for the length of however long one holds a property. 

The idea about renting is a great one; however, as my husband is almost 70 we don't have a lot of time to rent from one year to the next and test the waters. We have been to different parts of Mexico numerous times, and we have learned no place is perfect and that we will definitely have to compromise. We thought for certain we wanted Oaxaca (having visited several timess) but on this last visit, with a cancelled flight and a forced 7.5 hour OAX-DF bus ride we decided that we wanted closer access to DF for museums and airport. And Cuernavaca, although congested, sometimes smoggy and crazy with traffic, still had enough pros for us (Costco! Home Depot! decent climate!) to say it was the best option. We do not want to live on the coast (having already lived in humid Florida for 30+ years) nor did we want a rural highland like Chiapas, or a hilly dry area like my favorite city, Guanajuato...just too many steps and twisty callejones for my husband, who sometimes has a bit of a balance issue.

Anyway, since my husband can adjust to living about anywhere as long as he has a quiet reading area, internet access, and a comfy chair and nice TV, we decided that I, being younger and more energetic, am going to have to return to Cuernavaca for a month, rent a studio/kitchenette, and do a lot of investigating, i.e. go into Costco and check prices, ask around about utility and water bills, check out labor costs for minor renovations, see how long it takes me to go to the local market (and supermarket) and how much I spend....in essence, explore the everyday details of living. Get to know the nitty gritty of the community. 

As soon as I find accommodation and book a flight I need to make contact with both expats and locals and begin my work.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

elizadoo said:


> From the OP--thanks for everyone's replies. You have been so helpful! Please keep the information coming.
> 
> Our biggest concern: are we going to spend more money to live in Cuernavaca than Sarasota, Florida, meanwhile reducing the quality of our life? I can't possibly imagine we would, but then again, who knows? .


I can't imagine you spending more money to live SOB than NOB in most areas, but again that will depend on your lifestyle. My wife and I are comfortable in Leon and also in Texas on much less than chuck846 spends a month here in Mexico. You will need to find doctors, dentists, emergency numbers, emergency transportation and services, as you settle. I think it is smart that you at least spend some quality time checking the various neighborhoods (both day, night, weekends, and on holidays) before deciding on a permanent place to live, as I am sure you are aware that not too many things are the same as NOB. Neighbors can be the same, or very different. Security should be a concern. I would suggest that you do not burn all your bridges NOB, just in case you are one of many people who come to Mexico and discover it is not what they thought it was and return NOB to live. Keep banking connections, and a valid address, just in case. Do not change all of your money into pesos. Good luck.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

elizadoo said:


> From the OP--thanks for everyone's replies. You have been so helpful! Please keep the information coming.
> 
> Our biggest concern: are we going to spend more money to live in Cuernavaca than Sarasota, Florida, meanwhile reducing the quality of our life? I can't possibly imagine we would, but then again, who knows? In the past (in our Key West home, and Sarasota) we used solar water heating panels for our pool and home. In Key West we had an underground cistern. Right now in our present small ranch in Sarasota we bought $300 USD worth of LED lights and installed them throughout the house. We noticed our electric bill decrease by 1/3 (by $40-$50 a month) but more importantly we noticed how much cooler the house is when the lights are on. We bought undercounter LED strips from HD and installed those, along with a transformer. Of course when we move we will not take the strips from under our counter, but you can bet I will unscrew every LED light and bring them with me, along with the original reciepts from 9 months ago, when I purchased them.
> 
> ...


There is a Yahoo group called "Cuernads" which many expats in Cuernavaca and environs participate in. It's an "e-mail exchange", not a forum like this one, but a lot of good information is exchanged, including rentals, items for sale, events where expats can meet up, etc. You can find it by Googling Cuernads.


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## elizadoo (Nov 12, 2014)

Thanks--I just now signed up for the "Cuernads", now awaiting admission into group.


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

elizadoo said:


> Thanks--I just now signed up for the "Cuernads", now awaiting admission into group.


Cuernads is a good resource - but first and foremost - it is a place where people sell stuff (themselves, pasture raised pork, used furniture, themselves) - thus the 'ads' in Cuernads. There are some very nice people who visit Cuernads - just be a little careful. If you ask - can someone recommend someone to do X for me, you will get a lot of I can's - and a lot of people recommending their friends. I no longer ask such questions of Cuernads.

Another excellent resource is the 'library' at St Michael's church. There are some really genuinely nice people there. The library itself has a decent amount of English language books (for the most part). Most books are a little old'ish - but the membership to the library is something like 200 pesos/year/family. Personally we have kindles and a kindle unlimited membership. But my wife met a very nice woman at the library who she keeps in touch with.

Then there is this group which is called CCCC (Cuernavaca cultural yada yada) - formerly called the Newcomer's group. They meet once a month (perhaps the first Friday - I don't know). The one and only Newcomer's meeting we went to they disbanded themselves and gave birth to CCCC. Without doubt I was the youngest person in the room (and not by a few days). Most people were more your husbands age. I'm sure you can get info about them from the library.

There are probably 5 places I would shop before visiting Home Depot. Both it and Costco are not quite the same as in the US. We do visit Costco perhaps twice a week - but we really 'shop' rather than just throw stuff in the cart. Home Depot is perhaps twice as expensive as my local ferreteria (which is also a lot closer).


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

chuck846 said:


> . . . There are probably 5 places I would shop before visiting Home Depot. Both it and Costco are not quite the same as in the US. We do visit Costco perhaps twice a week - but we really 'shop' rather than just throw stuff in the cart. Home Depot is perhaps twice as expensive as my local ferreteria (which is also a lot closer).


Living in the center of Mexico City, I'm not within walking distance of any big box stores like Home Depot or Costco or Walmart. But I can usually find what I want at local stores, like the ferretería less than a block from my building. And I feel good patronizing small independent businesses rather than large corporations, be they Mexican or foreign-owned.


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## elizadoo (Nov 12, 2014)

Isla Verde said:


> Living in the center of Mexico City, I'm not within walking distance of any big box stores like Home Depot or Costco or Walmart. But I can usually find what I want at local stores, like the ferretería less than a block from my building. And I feel good patronizing small independent businesses rather than large corporations, be they Mexican or foreign-owned.


Agreed on the local ferreteria--when I was looking at real estate in Oaxaca the kindly host of the hostel where we were staying offered to take me along with him for the day to conduct his daily errands. One of them was a visit to the local ferreteria. and I was impressed by the personal attention and courtesy given to all the shoppers (one of whom had arrived with his burro to load with purcahses). Agreed, "big box" stores are one of the cultural behomoths we are trying to avoid! 

Our contacts in Cuernavaca have told us about the English library as a connecting point (since we already have tablets/ereaders) with other expats. Some of these so-called expats have lived longer in Mexico than they ever did in the USA, so I consider them as native as the rest of the population.


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## Azuledos (Jan 21, 2010)

_Annual_ costs (converted to US$) for our home in Fortin de las Flores, Veracruz. About 1800 sq ft - moderate climate so no need for any seasonal supplementary heat or cooling.

$ 26 Predial (property tax) @ 20% discount for prepay
$ 16 City water & sewer @ 50% discount for prepay
$ 16 Solid waste pickup (2x/week) @ 50% discount for prepay
$144 Electricity (CFE)
$220 Propane (Gas del Atlantico)
$570 Cable (Cablecom) - includes phone, TV and internet 10 mps
$159 Water in carboys (Santorini)
$ 49 Block nightwatch (velador)
$ 28 Cellphone (Telcel Amigo) for emergency calls only
$608 IMSS medical (incl drugs, doctor, hospital, clinic, etc) ...$304 for each of us
$118 Garden supplies & plants (we do our own yard care)

15-20 minutes from Sam's, Walmart, Home Depot, Office Depot, Chedraui, Soriana, etc in two large cities. 3 hours from CDMX and 1 hour from Veracruz Puerto


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Azuledos said:


> Annual costs (converted to US$) for our home in Fortin de las Flores, Veracruz. About 1800 sq ft - moderate climate so no need for any seasonal supplementary heat or cooling. $ 26 Predial (property tax) @ 20% discount for prepay $ 16 City water & sewer @ 50% discount for prepay $ 16 Solid waste pickup (2x/week) @ 50% discount for prepay $144 Electricity (CFE) $220 Propane (Gas del Atlantico) $570 Cable (Cablecom) - includes phone, TV and internet 10 mps $159 Water in carboys (Santorini) $ 49 Block nightwatch (velador) $ 28 Cellphone (Telcel Amigo) for emergency calls only $608 IMSS medical (incl drugs, doctor, hospital, clinic, etc) ...$304 for each of us $118 Garden supplies & plants (we do our own yard care) 15-20 minutes from Sam's, Walmart, Home Depot, Office Depot, Chedraui, Soriana, etc in two large cities. 3 hours from CDMX and 1 hour from Veracruz Puerto


$26 dollars per year for predial??????


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

GARYJ65 said:


> $26 dollars per year for predial??????


That is about what my wife paid on the lot before we built the house on it. WOW !


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## Azuledos (Jan 21, 2010)

GARYJ65 said:


> $26 dollars per year for predial??????


Yep, a one-time payment of MX$515. Lot measures 10x10 meters, about 50% covered w/2-story building, on paved street about 8 blocks from the central park in Fortin.


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## GARYJ65 (Feb 9, 2013)

Azuledos said:


> Yep, a one-time payment of MX$515. Lot measures 10x10 meters, about 50% covered w/2-story building, on paved street about 8 blocks from the central park in Fortin.


Ok for a small lot then, still, it's very very cheap
The lot value must not be high
Thanks


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Azuledos said:


> Yep, a one-time payment of MX$515. Lot measures 10x10 meters, about 50% covered w/2-story building, on paved street about 8 blocks from the central park in Fortin.


How many bedrooms and bathrooms does that house have, and how many square feet?


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## Azuledos (Jan 21, 2010)

coondawg said:


> How many bedrooms and bathrooms does that house have, and how many square feet?


Sorry, miswrote the previous. Lot measures 10 x 20 meters, and two story house measures 10 x 10 meters, so area of house is about 2000 sq feet. Upstairs has three bedrooms plus full bath. Downstairs had vanity lavatory & laundry - we added full bath anticipating converting dining room into future bedroom when we might not be able to negotiate stairs when we are older.


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