# Teaching job/young family relocating



## Yaz2013 (May 30, 2013)

Hiya, 

I am hoping there may be someone who can offer advice - a very broad view of our plans is this... we are a young family hoping to rent out our house in around two years time (in the mean time lots of research!!) and rent an apartment somewhere between Alicante and Valencia (job dependent) we will come for a trip and visit areas between the two places and check out employment opportunities, areas etc.. I have a diploma in education and training (my specialist subject is hairdressing but the teaching qualification is transferrable) I imagine I would have the most luck looking into my options teaching English? We will have three young children by the time we come over, one of which will be school age - I have read that a lot of families in Spain access child care from a young age as the maternity leave doesn't is much less than we get in the UK, are nurseries on average reasonably priced? My husband is a scaffolder and has a HGV license, although after a lot of searching online I can't seem to find much in the way of work opportunities for him? Neither of us speak Spanish although I am slowly learning. We are aiming to fund 6months apartment rental upfront and if it doesn't work out we will return back after 6months and put it down to experience! Sorry for the rambly message I guess I just wanted to get it written down and see if sounds crazy! So does anyone have any advice or reccomendations for ideal family areas we could check out when we visit? ... maybe this all sounds a bit optimistic and someone will bring me back down to earth, although hopefully not!  thanks in advance


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Yaz2013 said:


> Hiya,
> 
> I am hoping there may be someone who can offer advice - a very broad view of our plans is this... we are a young family hoping to rent out our house in around two years time (in the mean time lots of research!!) and rent an apartment somewhere between Alicante and Valencia (job dependent) we will come for a trip and visit areas between the two places and check out employment opportunities, areas etc.. I have a diploma in education and training (my specialist subject is hairdressing but the teaching qualification is transferrable) I imagine I would have the most luck looking into my options teaching English? We will have three young children by the time we come over, one of which will be school age - I have read that a lot of families in Spain access child care from a young age as the maternity leave doesn't is much less than we get in the UK, are nurseries on average reasonably priced? My husband is a scaffolder and has a HGV license, although after a lot of searching online I can't seem to find much in the way of work opportunities for him? Neither of us speak Spanish although I am slowly learning. We are aiming to fund 6months apartment rental upfront and if it doesn't work out we will return back after 6months and put it down to experience! Sorry for the rambly message I guess I just wanted to get it written down and see if sounds crazy! So does anyone have any advice or reccomendations for ideal family areas we could check out when we visit? ... maybe this all sounds a bit optimistic and someone will bring me back down to earth, although hopefully not!  thanks in advance


Having a background in education would help you if you are looking for English teaching work, but a good academy will ask you for a good English teaching qualification (CELTA or Trinity). As you're thinking of moving in 2 years you've got plenty of time to get it.
From another thread...


> I think it's vital, if you are interested in doing a good job, to get a good qualification and that means doing CELTA or Trinity and that will include a teaching practice element, and that's one of the most important aspects of the training. Make sure the course you are doing is the CELTA or Trinity and not just a TEFL.
> You will probably be looking at academy work which is usually concentrated into the afternoons from about 16:30 with kids and going on to 20:00/ 21:00/ 22:00 depending. If you only get that you'll be lucky as you could get a couple of hours at lunch time and maybe something in the morning and that really chops up your day.
> There's a lot of exam preparation going on at the moment as the crisis has made everyone more aware of howimportant English is on their curriculums so Mums and Dads are in class and so are the kids!


However the market is dynamic and forever changing. For example I used to go directly to companies with my CV and get classes. Now the vast majority of organisations contract classes through academies/ training centres and if you haven't got not only an internet presence but also online materials, it's hard to get people interested. Of course teachers rates in academies tend to be low. The government also offers more and more courses to companies through special credits. The teachers for these courses are normally contracted through training centres and again at pretty low rates. Madrid has just started intoducing their own English exams in the school system so Cambridge exams might experience a drop in the number of students preparing for their exams, but at the moment it's massive.


Save
Save​


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

2 years from now could be post Brexit.


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## Yaz2013 (May 30, 2013)

Thank you for your replies, that's interesting I will look into the CELTA, I had been feeling hopeful initially as I've seen a lot of teaching jobs advertised even for very little experience. I was looking more into teaching in a school - I imagine that you would probably have to have fluent Spanish for this although just going by the posts I've seen it doesn't always state this. 

Post brexit, yes possibly, meaning we will need visas. I know it will make the whole process a lot more complicated - but what will this mean for people already out there? 

Thanks


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I am a teacher here in Valencia region. I have been teaching for nearly 20 years and work as a Cambridge examiner. To be honest you will not make anything like enough money to support a family teaching English. Sorry to burst your bubble but unless you have income from another source it will be pretty miserable. I basically work to pay some bills and prevent us having to pay health care. 

Big cities have schools like BC and IH where there are solid contracts and reasonable wage structures and more senior teaching positions but they nearly always require fairly experience qualified teachers at a Diploma level.

No point in thinking about state schools unless you are a qualified secondary school teacher with the Spanish state entry requirements and that means fluent Castellano and Velanciano.
Private again would require at min UK state school qualifications.

To be honest without money it will be very hard to live here. Jobs are scarce. My wife speaks 3 languages and is employed as an translator/ administrator. She works full time for a reputable law firm yet her wage is very low compared to similar work in the UK. Without income from renting our house we quite simply could not afford to live here.
If you want the experience save up some money and come for a year and see how it works out but don;t burn your bridges just yet


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Yaz2013 said:


> Thank you for your replies, that's interesting I will look into the CELTA, I had been feeling hopeful initially as I've seen a lot of teaching jobs advertised even for very little experience. I was looking more into teaching in a school - I imagine that you would probably have to have fluent Spanish for this although just going by the posts I've seen it doesn't always state this.
> 
> Post brexit, yes possibly, meaning we will need visas. I know it will make the whole process a lot more complicated - but what will this mean for people already out there?
> 
> Thanks


You will not be able to work in the Spanish state education service and reputable English schools here will require you to have UK Qualified Teacher Status which means you have either a B.Ed or a degree plus PGCE.
Your husband will struggle to find work as even though the unemployment rate has dropped it is still over 20% and in some provinces still over 30%, even taking into account seasonal factors.

Another very important point is that once the UK has left the EU, any employment in Spain must be offered to EU citizens before any non-EU citizen is considered. So job opportunities for Brits will be very few.

It's good to learn Spanish but the degree of fluency needed for most jobs can only be gained in Spain, with constant exposure to the language. Speaking is relatively easy, it's understanding what is said that is the hard part.

Currently you need to provide an income of over 600 euros a head including children plus savings and provision for health insurance in order to be a resident and work in Spain. The amount seems to vary from region to region and even province to province. Benefits of any kind are contribution-based, not residence -based as in the UK.

It seems likely that post-Brexit things will change dramatically for UK job seekers hoping to work in Spain. Your six-month trial plan shows you are aware of the problems you may encounter but I think you need to consider carefully what the post - Brexit situation may be.


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## Me&MrsJones (Sep 25, 2016)

Hi there and welcome to the forums 

I can't offer you any advice on the formal teaching and qualification side of things but I can share our experience with you. I am repeating what I say in most of my posts that planning, research and goal setting.

Firstly you need to list what your dreams are, then bring yourself back down to earth and that usually starts with a budget! Obviously, in your case work will drive most of the locational part.

In the UK we found our childcare (for 2yo) was around £70 per day... in La Romana our nursery fees, full-time, are around 90€ PER MONTH! So, as you can see, a massive difference... Rip Off Britain!

My advice is to seek out a good local agent in the area you are considering and start communicating with them. I don't think I can post info like that on this page but happy to share privately as I don't think that gets me in trouble? Just PM me if you like.

Set your goals, timescale etc otherwise your timeline will just slip... we upped stick and relocated in 5 weeks after our viewing trip! We were very fortunate and had great help along the way and some great advice from these forums also.

Hope it helps


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## Yaz2013 (May 30, 2013)

Thanks again, that's a great insight and I realise we clearly have to be a little more realistic. Although we do plan on renting our house out and releasing some equity to take for the 6 months in addition to saving the apartment rental - I think we could make this work if we were paid up front and had some money to bring but I'm guessing 6months would be about our lot. It's a pretty bittersweet as we may love it and not want to return but the way I see it is you get one chance at life and we're better off trying and coming back than not doing at all. We lived in Australia for 6months and although short we always look back on the memories made there so I suppose even if we can offer our family a change of lifestyle for just 6 months - it's a lot of up heavel I know. We are hoping but not too optimistic that my husband will find work but I'm bit seeming to find anything in his area. Does anyone have any info on salons in expat areas - could this be another option for me? I know salon work is low paid but it may be my better option than trying to get into teaching and starting new courses when there are little prospects.


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## Yaz2013 (May 30, 2013)

Wow, that's pretty much the same as we pay for nursery here per day, crazy, crazy money! 

I love doing research and drive my husband mad with it - by the time we go we will feel like we've done it ten times over! 

Yes that does help, thank you!


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I came here first about 17 years ago. I has a basic CELTA qualification so was able to get some work. I wasn't married and had no children. It was relatively easy back then. It was much cheaper than the UK . Everyone was paid in cash. No one cared about residencia as we were all part of Europe and I was young and carefree. Things have changed a lot since then.

Firstly people still seem to think it is cheap and therefore easy to live here. Secondly they contextualise everything in terms of living in the UK. Spain is now on the ball. You need to have funds to live here if you wish to receive health care and to be legal. Without work those funds need to much more than most UK families have.

Working without Spanish in the south of spain is pretty much over now as many expat communities are struggling with a low pound and a severely damaged Spanish economy. People don't have money for builders, pool cleaners like they did.

Finally Brexit is going to make things much much harder to just come here and take it as it comes. Many Brits are desperately trying to sell properties and return as a fear of a hard Brexit looks more and more likely. If it wasn't for my wife being non-Uk Citizen and refusing to go back I wouldn't stay here as I fear my job will be much harder to hang on to in a few years time


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kaipa said:


> I came here first about 17 years ago. I has a basic CELTA qualification so was able to get some work. I wasn't married and had no children. It was relatively easy back then. It was much cheaper than the UK . Everyone was paid in cash. No one cared about residencia as we were all part of Europe and I was young and carefree. Things have changed a lot since then.
> 
> Firstly people still seem to think it is cheap and therefore easy to live here. Secondly they contextualise everything in terms of living in the UK. Spain is now on the ball. You need to have funds to live here if you wish to receive health care and to be legal. Without work those funds need to much more than most UK families have.
> 
> ...


In some ways our story is similar. We both came over young, single, no responsibilities and when Spain and the UK were in different places. However, I was never paid in cash by academies even back then over 30 years ago, although plenty of people I knew were. I'm now self employed which for a few years worked out well, but now...
I thought what you said about people contextualising "everything in terms of living in the UK" was interesting and I agree as I think you were implying, that this can be a drawback. I remember writing about this on the forum before. Of course people have to put things in to context and you are going to use your home country to do that, but it can be dangerous to rely on this as your point of reference. Different countries work in different ways, sometimes for the worse, sometimes for the better and sometimes just differently. When thinking about work I feel it's not very useful in some ways to compare British and Spanish salaries. Spanish salaries are lower and that's the way it is. If you come here to _live_ instead of just pass through for a couple of years that has to be accepted. I have American friends who have lived here as long as I have who still wish for that American salary, but I don't know if they wish for those American holidays or lifestyle...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Me&MrsJones said:


> Hi there and welcome to the forums
> 
> 
> 
> In the UK we found our childcare (for 2yo) was around £70 per day... in La Romana our nursery fees, full-time, are around 90€ PER MONTH! So, as you can see, a massive difference... Rip Off Britain!


No 'rip-off' though when you compare UK and Spanish salaries and welfare benefits.....

I'm retired but my pension incomes exceed the Spanish average wage....and there's still high unemployment so many are working on the black without seg. soc. cover...


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## Yaz2013 (May 30, 2013)

Taking into account the expected income of 600euro per head - as I believe I have read on another thread is children inclusive? That's a huge expectation and one I just do not think will be possible for us at all. Speaking with my husband he's extremely concerned as to what post brexit has in store job wise... whereas my fall back plan was that we would use our equity release to fund it if we could not find work but then I feel not only would that cost us a lot of money but we also wouldn't be immersing ourselves into life in Spain as we would hope and we still wouldn't be meeting the residence/income requirements to live there I assume? Oh... I think we've fallen at the first hurdle! Shame


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Yaz2013 said:


> Taking into account the expected income of 600euro per head - as I believe I have read on another thread is children inclusive? That's a huge expectation and one I just do not think will be possible for us at all. Speaking with my husband he's extremely concerned as to what post brexit has in store job wise... whereas my fall back plan was that we would use our equity release to fund it if we could not find work but then I feel not only would that cost us a lot of money but we also wouldn't be immersing ourselves into life in Spain as we would hope and we still wouldn't be meeting the residence/income requirements to live there I assume? Oh... I think we've fallen at the first hurdle! Shame


Yes, children are included in the requirements. So a family of four would have to show around 2600 euros a month plus savings.
You are right to be concerned about employment post-Brexit. As I pointed out, once we're no longer EU citizens we are only eligible for employment if no EU citizen is available. 
So unless you have a job which is 100% guaranteed to be permanent -is there such a thing? - further work opportunities could be few and far between, if available at all.
But better forewarned..


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

I teach, my income just covers my Social Security payments - which gives us both State Healthcare. I certainly could not support us both from this wage without my nursing pension and our savings.


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## Emyh (Apr 16, 2017)

Hi,
We did a similar thing to you 18 months ago and love our new life here in Spain.

As far as I am aware the 600 euros a month only applies if you do not have a legal work contract. I was certainly never asked for proof of income when I got residency for my husband, daughter and myself.

As for income, I have about 900? left after rent and bills, more than enough for a family to live on, but rent is cheap here.

I think Brexit will be the biggest hurdle for you unfortunately but good luck!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Emyh said:


> Hi,
> We did a similar thing to you 18 months ago and love our new life here in Spain.
> 
> As far as I am aware the 600 euros a month only applies if you do not have a legal work contract. I was certainly never asked for proof of income when I got residency for my husband, daughter and myself.
> ...


It seems to depend a lot on where you are wanting to live. Most places in Asturias have a small immigrant population - not so in the south of Spain. Also living costs are most likely cheaper in the beautiful province of Asturias. Which part of Asturias are you in?
BTW, by residency I presume you mean the signing on the members of the EU register and getting an NIE?


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## Emyh (Apr 16, 2017)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Emyh said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


Yes that's what I meant, the registration that you do within 3 months.

Asturias is beautiful isn't it!? We live in Mieres if you know it? About 20 mins from Oviedo.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Emyh said:


> Hi,
> We did a similar thing to you 18 months ago and love our new life here in Spain.
> 
> As far as I am aware the 600 euros a month only applies if you do not have a legal work contract. I was certainly never asked for proof of income when I got residency for my husband, daughter and myself.
> ...


And the main point is that the OP has in reality scant chance of getting a legal contract.
But the family will need to register as residents to be able to get a legal work contract, hence the requirement to show proof of income.

You are right about the post-Brexit situation but there are other issues to factor in.
I see you prudently put a question mark over the 900 euros left over after bills. Of course that depends on the exchange rate and on a tight budget a small drop can be a severe blow.
You didn't say if your 900 euros covers food, fuel, insurances, car repairs , all those contingencies that have a nasty habit of cropping up in life. A couple of months ago my partner drove our LR Discovery into a ditch to avoid running over a stray dog and the repair bill came to just under 3000 euros.
Dental care unless well insured is another potential cash drain...
But it's Brexit that's the problem as when we're non-EU employment opportunities will be severely restricted. That's the case even for Brits already working here unless they have a guaranteed 'job for life'.
If the OP were single or without dependents I'd say 'Go for it' but at least until we know where new immigrants -and immigrants here for less than the five years thought to confer right of residence - stand in the post-Brexit world you can't be too prudent where families are involved, unless you have a solid Plan B exit strategy of your own.
Incidentally, the cost of living here on the coast in Western Andalucia is no less than in the UK, for us anyway.


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## Emyh (Apr 16, 2017)

mrypg9 said:


> Emyh said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


? Was meant to be ?, I don't know how to edit it! It covers everything with plenty spare, we don't have a car though. We survived on far less in the UK.
I think area must be important, I find everything cheaper than the UK with the exception of electronics. But we live in opposite ends of the country.


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## Emyh (Apr 16, 2017)

I don't know why the euro sign keeps changing to a question mark :/


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Yaz2013 said:


> Thanks again, that's a great insight and I realise we clearly have to be a little more realistic. Although we do plan on renting our house out and releasing some equity to take for the 6 months in addition to saving the apartment rental - I think we could make this work if we were paid up front and had some money to bring but I'm guessing 6months would be about our lot. It's a pretty bittersweet as we may love it and not want to return but the way I see it is you get one chance at life and we're better off trying and coming back than not doing at all.* We lived in Australia for 6months* and although short we always look back on the memories made there so I suppose even if we can offer our family a change of lifestyle for just 6 months - it's a lot of up heavel I know. We are hoping but not too optimistic that my husband will find work but I'm bit seeming to find anything in his area. Does anyone have any info on salons in expat areas - could this be another option for me? I know salon work is low paid but it may be my better option than trying to get into teaching and starting new courses when there are little prospects.


To be honest, if you and your family can move to Auz then jump at the opportunity, better work prospects for your families skill set, no language problems, very easy for the children to 'fit in' et al.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Emyh said:


> I don't know why the euro sign keeps changing to a question mark :/


I thought you were referring to fluctuating exchange rates!!


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

€ press ctrl/alt/4 at the same time if your on a UK keyboard.


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## Emyh (Apr 16, 2017)

mrypg9 said:


> Emyh said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know why the euro sign keeps changing to a question mark :/
> ...


I wondered why you mentioned exchange rates...makes sense now .


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Emyh said:


> ? Was meant to be ?, I don't know how to edit it! It covers everything with plenty spare, we don't have a car though. We survived on far less in the UK.
> I think area must be important, I find everything cheaper than the UK with the exception of electronics. But we live in opposite ends of the country.


Yes, as they say 'Location location location'......

We ended up living where we do, in a quiet area on the edge of a village near Estepona, because my son has a place here and we stayed there when we first arrived while we were looking around for somewhere to live. The area grew on us so we decided to stay put and found the ideal house for two large dogs...
We are lucky in that we rent a house for what must be less than half the going rate. We've lived here now for nine years and have a very good landlord and as I often remind him, we are very good tenants...
A few km inland and prices for many things are a lot cheaper. We once went to visit friend and fellow poster Jimenato in Jimena de la Frontera and five of us had a superb dinner, loads of good simple food and wine...and the bill with generous tip came to 60 euros. We usually pay around 50 to 60 euros for the two of us for dinner in a reasonably good restaurant, more for somewhere posher.
Even basics like bread were cheaper in Jimena.
But we're settled here so we suck it up....


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

bob_bob said:


> To be honest, if you and your family can move to Auz then jump at the opportunity, better work prospects for your families skill set, no language problems, very easy for the children to 'fit in' et al.


It's very hard to get a permanent residence visa for Australia. The current unemployment rate is, I think, around 5.9% - that's not bad compared with Spain but there is a lot of hidden unemployment and a lot of underemployment. The mining boom is over, the budget is in a total mess, social security (which does not compare with UK social security) is being cut, etc etc. The family's skill set actually does not bode particularly well for life in Oz, although it might previously have opened up opportunities. But yes, the language is pretty much the same and it is easier for British children to fit in.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Emyh said:


> Yes that's what I meant, the registration that you do within 3 months.
> 
> Asturias is beautiful isn't it!? We live in Mieres if you know it? About 20 mins from Oviedo.


No, I don't know Mieres, but have been in the area and have been to Oviedo which I loved (mist in August!!). We have spent quite a few wonderfully relaxing holidays there. I wrote about my last trip in this thread
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/1118377-asturias.html


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## Yaz2013 (May 30, 2013)

Sorry I've neglected my post, think I slunk into a depressed slumber sulking that it wasn't going to work! Thanks for your posts  

So I may have not really read it properly or not understood properly about claiming the residence (sorry on my phone and can't go back to check out what was actually said whilst writing) I'm confused as to why some people don't need to prove income? Please explain in idiot terms, thanks ?

Australia just isn't an option for us, we looked into it around a year ago but it would involve very costly visas, lots of skills assessment and moving to a regional area. On top of that our main desire for Spain is the language culture, food and only ever being a few hours and a couple of hundred £'s away from coming home. Aus is just too far for us now. 

Presumably all the working expats won't just move back to the uk post brexit, and all the jobs currently held by them surely wouldn't automatically be freed up for the taking, especially if long established businesses/loyal employees... I don't know, I don't feel I understand it well enough to get a good grasp on it but I suppose any potential problems immediately post brexit will make it harder but I imagine there will always be a need for native English teachers just like there will be here for native Spanish teachers? ..few years down the line I think there will be a lot of problems following our decision (not saying it was the wrong one) just it will be interesting to see how it unfolds. I guess no one really knows. 

Lucky for us we have a brilliant Spanish teacher just across the road and my eldest will keep up his language (even though not near what level he would be if attending Spanish school) but it's a start then a few years from now see what happens


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## Yaz2013 (May 30, 2013)

I think also expectations on what you can live on vary hugely person to person. We are under no illusion of coming out and living like an extravagant Marbella type lifestyle, we want probably like most people to be able to get by without too much struggle but have no real desire for the unecessary material possessions sometimes felt needed to keep up with the joneses in the uk - I know it doesn't apply to everyone and I'm not meaning to massively stereo type before anyone gets offended ? But we aren't thinking we will come out and be better off we are realistic and know that we won't in any way be better off. But that's not why we want this. I understand as people are saying that cost of living is around the same but rents seem to be much much cheaper - maybe this is reflected in the low wage, we have found when visiting that supermarkets are about the same, days out to be cheaper. We would also bring a lot of things out with us in the way of household goods. Hmmm maybe I'm hanging onto it still being a possibility if I can get my head around these income requirements ??


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Everyone--AFAIK has to prove income which varies but seems to be €600pp inc children, private healthcare - unless working or self employed with social security payments at €279 pm regardless of what you earn. 

Once out of the EU it is believed, but no one knows, UK citizens will have to comply with non EU rules. I.E jobs. As for teaching English as a native teacher, I'm not so sure. Possibly if you are a qualified teacher IE degree level then maybe opportunities will exist as a native. 

There's differences of opinion on the forum as to whether or not, we get to keep our jobs or have to comply with new rules, which sums up the situation, no one knows.

As for cost of living, there are swings and roundabouts, but like living anywhere, not having any money is no fun regardless if warm weather, beaches and views. I, personally, have always advised basing a move here on like for like, some aspects you'll gain others you'll lose. 

i


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Currently EU pensioners ( with a state pension ), those working and registered self-employed, and those with a suitable work contract don't have to prove income.

After Brexit, if British citizens are treated like all other non-EU citizens, we will have to secure a visa to live and work here.

While it's unlikely that those of us already here and settled will lose our jobs etc., we're already hearing of Brits only being offered temporary contracts, if they can get any kind of contract at all.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> Currently EU pensioners ( with a state pension ), those working and registered self-employed, and those with a suitable work contract don't have to prove income.
> 
> After Brexit, if British citizens are treated like all other non-EU citizens, we will have to secure a visa to live and work here.
> 
> While it's unlikely that those of us already here and settled will lose our jobs etc., we're already hearing of Brits only being offered temporary contracts, if they can get any kind of contract at all.


In what kind of fields xabia?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> In what kind of fields xabia?


Telesales, restaurants, shops, - all kinds of things.

To be fair some of these might have been temporary anyway, & we're just hearing about more of them now. But I'm also hearing of Brits being asked to prove that they have work permits.

That happened for a short time immediately after the referendum, but it's happening again since A50 was triggered.

It's awfully difficult to prove that you have something which you don't need, to someone who can't or won't understand!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> Telesales, restaurants, shops, - all kinds of things.
> 
> To be fair some of these might have been temporary anyway, & we're just hearing about more of them now. But I'm also hearing of Brits being asked to prove that they have work permits.
> 
> ...


Yes, my immediate reaction is, but we can't get a work visa!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, my immediate reaction is, but we can't get a work visa!


exactly!

Some seem to think that Britain has already left though


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Very few would-be immigrants are likely to get permanent contracts, if we're realistic. So there will be no guarantee of work for non-EU Brits once we've left the UK. The future could be uncertain for Brits already here without permanent contracts.
That should put an end to the 'want to live the 'dream', will put my hand to anything' hopefuls...

There are reports of a new clamp-down on UK registered cars in Malaga Province. Can't say I'm sorry.


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## BigDeezel (Apr 27, 2016)

mrypg9 said:


> You will not be able to work in the Spanish state education service and reputable English schools here will require you to have UK Qualified Teacher Status which means you have either a B.Ed or a degree plus PGCE.
> Your husband will struggle to find work as even though the unemployment rate has dropped it is still over 20% and in some provinces still over 30%, even taking into account seasonal factors.
> 
> Another very important point is that once the UK has left the EU, any employment in Spain must be offered to EU citizens before any non-EU citizen is considered. So job opportunities for Brits will be very few.
> ...


In regards to the teaching in Spain the feedback to your post is is completely different to what I have experienced and three of my friends have.

They all teach in different, reputable international schools in Spain, have been here for a good couple of years and get paid pretty well.

Look at your options as the process I am currently going through requires an NIE (which is a little confusing), and again is for a teaching contract in one of the most reputable intl schools in southern Spain.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

BigDeezel said:


> In regards to the teaching in Spain the feedback to your post is is completely different to what I have experienced and three of my friends have.
> 
> They all teach in different, reputable international schools in Spain, have been here for a good couple of years and get paid pretty well.


Mrypg9 said


> You will not be able to work in the Spanish state education service and *reputable English schools here will require you to have UK Qualified Teacher Status which means you have either a B.Ed or a degree plus PGCE.*
> Your husband will struggle to find work as even though the unemployment rate has dropped it is still over 20% and in some provinces still over 30%, even taking into account seasonal factors.
> 
> Another very important point is that once the UK has left the EU, any employment in Spain must be offered to EU citizens before any non-EU citizen is considered. So job opportunities for Brits will be very few.
> ...


Are you saying that in a well respected international school you don't need those qualifications?
What qualifications do they have then? They must surely have some teaching qualifications?


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## Yaz2013 (May 30, 2013)

I am just finishing the end of my course which is a diploma in education and training, I am able to apply for QTS following this although it isn't a degree and (whether some people disagree or not) it is supposedly meant to allow teachers similar opportunity to teach as those with a degree - I don't know whether the same applies in Spain. 

Thanks for your reply that's good to know. There may still be some hope. Just been watching the brits abroad program on Spain ... can't remember what it was called, about life after brexit and it appears there's a hell of a lot of doom and gloom lurking for people until everyone knows what's going on. Such a shame


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

BigDeezel said:


> In regards to the teaching in Spain the feedback to your post is is completely different to what I have experienced and three of my friends have.
> 
> They all teach in different, reputable international schools in Spain, have been here for a good couple of years and get paid pretty well.
> 
> Look at your options as the process I am currently going through requires an NIE (which is a little confusing), and again is for a teaching contract in one of the most reputable intl schools in southern Spain.


Have to disagree. Most, if not all Reputable international schools usually require a degree in teaching. TEFL/CELTA do not count but are an advantage even if you have a degree. As a teacher myself, and as a holder of a CELTA, it is impossible to get a teaching job in a reputable international school or in any state school. I teach in local acadamies, and privately, which is why I'm autonomo, I also explain to ALL clients, I am not a qualified teacher, but I am qualified to teach English as a second language. 

In fact, if you go on many forums re teaching abroad, more and more TEFL and CELTA teachers are finding out that schools in China, Thailand etc require a degree.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Mrypg9 said
> 
> Are you saying that in a well respected international school you don't need those qualifications?
> What qualifications do they have then? They must surely have some teaching qualifications?


There's no actual governing body for British/International schools in Spain - nor anything like Ofsted - so I think in theory, schools can employ anyone they like, with whatever qualifications they choose to require - or not. I have a friend who is head teacher in a British/International school, so I'll check that out to be certain. 

Years ago, when we first came, the International school my daughters attended for a short time had 'teachers' with no formal teaching qualifications. Degrees in various subjects yes - one was a Montessori teacher - but I know for certain that quite a few didn't have BEd nor PGCE. I know someone who was teaching there until a couple of years ago who while a talented teacher who knew the subject, had no formal teaching qualifications.

However... The British Council does do checks & issue reports similar to Ofsted reports- often using NABSS to actually carry them out, & both organisations expect teaching staff to have recognised teaching qualifications. As said however, they have no legal clout. 

Some International schools also offer the Spanish 'graduado' & Bachillerato, & the teachers involved in the teaching of those have to be qualified according to Spanish requirements.


All that said - most reputable schools will indeed require their teachers to hold a formal teaching qualification. As a minimum QTS.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

There are many such schools around the Marbella/Estepona area. Some reputable, some not. One I know of got rid of the Head Teacher and replaced her with a woman with no teaching qualifications who had previously been employed as a Teaching Assistant.
No 'reputable' British International School would employ a non-qualified person and 'qualified' in UK terms means B-Ed or degree with PGCE. Then to gain full QTS a year of monitored classroom practice.
Monitoring NQTs was one of my jobs as Head .
As far as I know, nothing has changed.
Of course many schools will employ staff who lack these qualifications and I'm sure some of them do a good job. But it's very unusual for any reputable school to hire a teacher on an autonomo basis. A school with a sound clientele and good prospects could surely afford to cover staff seg. soc. and holiday/sick pay. 
A few years ago we employed someone on an autonomo basis and our employment could not exceed 75% of that person's billed working hours. Maybe that's changed now to bring Spain into line with the UK?
But even in the UK I've yet to hear of anyone employed to teach full-time on a self-employed basis...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

BigDeezel said:


> In regards to the teaching in Spain the feedback to your post is is completely different to what I have experienced and three of my friends have.
> 
> They all teach in different, reputable international schools in Spain, have been here for a good couple of years and get paid pretty well.
> 
> Look at your options as the process I am currently going through requires an NIE (which is a little confusing), and again is for a teaching contract in one of the most reputable intl schools in southern Spain.


How do you know it's 'reputable'? There are many international schools in Southern Spain, some excellent, some I wouldn't have my dog trained in.
I think you said you will be employed as 'autonomo'...may I ask if that's on a temporary basis only?

It's true and I know well from experience as a Head that paper qualifications don't automatically make anyone a good teacher but if I were a parent paying the kind of fees the best schools round here demand I would want good, experienced qualified teachers for my child and surely the school would want to keep them and give an appropriate contract of employment..


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> Have to disagree. *Most, if not all Reputable international schools usually require a degree in teaching*. TEFL/CELTA do not count but are an advantage even if you have a degree. As a teacher myself, and as a holder of a CELTA, it is impossible to get a teaching job in a reputable international school or in any state school
> .





xabiachica said:


> There's no actual governing body for British/International schools in Spain - nor anything like Ofsted - so I think in theory, schools can employ anyone they like, with whatever qualifications they choose to require - or not.
> *All that said - most reputable schools will indeed require their teachers to hold a formal teaching qualification. As a minimum QTS*.





mrypg9 said:


> There are many such schools around the Marbella/Estepona area. Some reputable, some not. One I know of got rid of the Head Teacher and replaced her with a woman with no teaching qualifications who had previously been employed as a Teaching Assistant.
> *No 'reputable' British International School would employ a non-qualified person and 'qualified' in UK terms means B-Ed or degree with PGCE. Then to gain full QTS a year of monitored classroom practice.*
> Monitoring NQTs was one of my jobs as Head .
> As far as I know, nothing has changed.
> ...


All of which carry on from my previous post, so interested to hear the reply from BigDeezel


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## BigDeezel (Apr 27, 2016)

Megsmum said:


> Have to disagree. Most, if not all Reputable international schools usually require a degree in teaching. TEFL/CELTA do not count but are an advantage even if you have a degree. As a teacher myself, and as a holder of a CELTA, it is impossible to get a teaching job in a reputable international school or in any state school. I teach in local acadamies, and privately, which is why I'm autonomo, I also explain to ALL clients, I am not a qualified teacher, but I am qualified to teach English as a second language.
> 
> In fact, if you go on many forums re teaching abroad, more and more TEFL and CELTA teachers are finding out that schools in China, Thailand etc require a degree.


Interestingly enough I lived and taught in both of those countries for about 6 years in total. The degree requirement is (and I predict always will be) hazy over there. The one gripe and same problem they keep coming across is that there are foreign teachers there who have years and years of experience yet when they were growing up chose not to pursue a degree in higher education. However, there are younger teachers who have no experience and have a degree; meaning options such as "teaching assistant" (which is actually a teacher) are available on certain visas. TBH over there it's more about how things look to the outside, not really to do with which is best.

As for Spain, in regards to English language teaching, the feedback I have had from English teachers in Madrid, Valencia and Barcelona (including within the British Council) seems to show that there are many opportunities without a degree and in addition work seems to be plentiful...at the moment.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Any language school employing someone without a relevant English language teaching qualification will be .....crap. Any real boss or DS will be au fait with required qualifications with a CELTA being the minimun requirement. Schools like BC and IH usually want experienced teachers with Diploma levels. I have been teaching for nearly 18 years now and I am fed up having to work along side people who think that just because they have been to university and are native speakers that teaching English is a piece of cake. Had one person last year marking FCE writing only on the basis of spelling and correct grammar!! They had no idea of cohesion, coherence, task achievement, non-impeding errors, discourse management etc.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kaipa said:


> Any language school employing someone without a relevant English language teaching qualification will be .....crap. Any real boss or DS will be au fait with required qualifications with a CELTA being the minimun requirement. Schools like BC and IH usually want experienced teachers with Diploma levels. I have been teaching for nearly 18 years now and I am fed up having to work along side people who think that just because they have been to university and are native speakers that teaching English is a piece of cake. Had one person last year marking FCE writing only on the basis of spelling and correct grammar!! They had no idea of cohesion, coherence, task achievement, non-impeding errors, discourse management etc.


However, the OP is talking about an international school teaching children not EFL but English (or biology, or history or whatever) in English and for those kind of jobs in a "reputable" school you need a wider teaching degree like a B Ed or PGCE. This is also true of British schools in Spain
I am also an English teacher of many years standing and know that a native speaker does not = EFL teacher


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Pesky Wesky said:


> However, the OP is talking about an international school teaching children not EFL but English (or biology, or history or whatever) in English and for those kind of jobs in a "reputable" school you need a wider teaching degree like a B Ed or PGCE. This is also true of British schools in Spain
> I am also an English teacher of many years standing and know that a native speaker does not = EFL teacher


Ah...yes. Didn't see beginning of post and assumed he meant BC itself. Having said that don't think I would be that happy paying for my child to go to an international school where the teachers didn't even have degrees never mind teaching qualifications!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

BigDeezel said:


> As for Spain, in regards to English language teaching, the feedback I have had from English teachers in Madrid, Valencia and Barcelona (including within the British Council) seems to show that there are many opportunities without a degree and in addition work seems to be plentiful...at the moment.


Have just had a thought... there is work for teaching assistants in English classes in state schools and possibly the semi private concertados and some programmes are co ordinated by the BC. Maybe this is what BD is referring to?


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## cermignano (Feb 9, 2017)

My son is teaching in China this year. There has been a big crackdown on sham teachers. He had to provide practically his tonsils when he applied for an EFL in a university in Chongqing. He had to get references from uni, summer jobs, voluntary places etc etc went on and on. Then he had to have his degree 'apostled'. Medical cert from his doctor. He works 18 weeks then 8 weeks off, 18 weeks on and another 8 weeks off. He has been observed teaching, motivating doing social corner cafe stuff etc having been told beforehand that he will be turfed out if not up to scratch.
However he is having a ball, is reasonably paid, has a free flat on campus, free transport, free leckie, free wifi etc etc. The Head of dept is European and makes sure that the duty of care as per their statement is carried out. He has skyped me after my son arraived and emailed me to reassure me re some questions I had. Provided buddies for shopping, eating out, finding out and helping him with loads of other stuff including homesickness. Sent someone to meet him at the airport on arrival. A lot of this is a pain to him but a reassurance to me. He was unable to get a job like this in Europe and wanted to travel somewhere new anyways.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

There are a great many countries in the world where CELTA without a degree is considered inadequate for teaching with reputable schools.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I found that in Prague getting a job in one of the many dubious English schools that sprang up like mushrooms post-Communism was seen as a fall-back source of employment for many people who came to Prague in search of cheap beer and easy sex and whose only qualification was that they were British and spoke a form of the language.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

EverHopeful said:


> There are a great many countries in the world where CELTA without a degree is considered inadequate for teaching with reputable schools.


Many academies ask teachers to have some kind of TEFL qualification (CELTA and Cert Trinity TESOL and the further qualifications of Diploma being recognised as the best) plus a degree, but the degree doesn't have to be a teaching degree. It could be in Marine Biology or Egyptology. It's something I don't really understand. You don't need a degree to teach EFL. You need training, but it doesn't have to be to degree level.You do need a certain amount of maturity, especially if dealing with older children and adults and a good dose of understanding goes a long way; understanding the effort and sacrifice made by people with busy lives trying to learn a language. Also if you've got experience working in another field that will probably help you if you are going to work with adults especially in company classes.
To work as a _*school teacher*_, ie the main centre where the child goes to receive education (as opposed to an after school academy) and as a teacher, not an assistant you should be asked for a full teaching qualification, a B.Ed or a PGCE and schools who don't should be avoided as they are obviously not interested in providing a good service to their pupils or parents.


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Many academies ask teachers to have some kind of TEFL qualification (CELTA and Cert Trinity TESOL and the further qualifications of Diploma being recognised as the best) plus a degree, but the degree doesn't have to be a teaching degree. It could be in Marine Biology or Egyptology. It's something I don't really understand. You don't need a degree to teach EFL. You need training, but it doesn't have to be to degree level.You do need a certain amount of maturity, especially if dealing with older children and adults and a good dose of understanding goes a long way; understanding the effort and sacrifice made by people with busy lives trying to learn a language. Also if you've got experience working in another field that will probably help you if you are going to work with adults especially in company classes.
> To work as a _*school teacher*_, ie the main centre where the child goes to receive education (as opposed to an after school academy) and as a teacher, not an assistant you should be asked for a full teaching qualification, a B.Ed or a PGCE and schools who don't should be avoided as they are obviously not interested in providing a good service to their pupils or parents.


Hey, I absolutely agree. I have an issue with CELTA as a program that is being promoted across the world by various schools/training colleges all of which are backed and approved by CELTA (i.e. the UK). It seems they believe the program will train people to teach and, at least in most countries, the program is now only available as a course that has to be completed within a very short space of time - eg. 3 months. Who is actually responsible for that and for marketing CELTA as the standard for teaching English as a foreign language?


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Could not agree more. As a CELTA teacher, I have the certificate, in no way did it teach me to teach. I do have a Nursing Degree, and I was a nurse educator, which gave me a grounding in teaching skills. Our classes are for ages 5-55. 

I'm very lucky, the academy I work for has been running for over 15 years. There is one other teacher - The owner. We work well as a team and she has taught me more in the past two years than any TEFL/CELTA course.
She concentrates on Grammar etc I reinforce with, conversation, games using the correct pronunciation, Idioms etc. She's very keen the students learn British English and not American English she's also keen that they learn about British Culture and history.
I have a few local students, usually just before exams but in August and September I tend to go Bajó (?) As I don't want to pay SS for those months and I save nearly €600 and as teaching does not pay well, that's a huge saving, plus those months give me time to prepare for the next term.

I love it, however without having a full teaching degree, I certainly could not survive on the money, and I do think it's very important to realize what an important role it is. These children and adults are relying on me to give them the correct information, I spend hours a week, preparing lessons, it's a serious business 

F


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> I love it, however without having a full teaching degree, I certainly could not survive on the money, and I do think it's very important to realize what an important role it is. These children and adults are relying on me to give them the correct information, I spend hours a week, preparing lessons, it's a serious business
> 
> F


Love this post. This realisation is one of the many things that go towards making a good English teacher. Others include enthusiasm and interest for teaching which you obviously have too.
There are as many good academies as there are bad, and the good ones realise that a newly trained CELTA teacher is starting out on their career and still requires a lot of guidance and training, (as do teachers who are trained to degree level) especially if they don't have previous teaching experience. Many ads say "no experience necessary", but if the organization is responsible they recognise that guidance and training is still needed.
I trained as a middle school teacher, but only did 2 years teaching kids, and that was in Colombia as it was impossible for an honours degree graduate to get a job in the UK at that time. All worked out for the best anyway as now I'm happy teaching adults in Spain. I did the CELTA equivalent (it wasn't called that then) before Colombia and it's true that people who didn't have a teaching background found the whole thing just more difficult in general.


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