# Reverse osmosis Home water systems?



## SierraMadreMe (Mar 26, 2015)

Anybody bought one of these for a home water system? I am really inclined to find one for the house.Our water is pretty hard (and not even mentioning the contaminants) and gunks up the toilets...faucets and the washing machine etc.One of the nieces has a friend (sound familiar to anyone?) that sells home systems.She sent over the printed fact sheet,but for P97,500 it only delivers 75GPD.Shoot.In the US you can buy a 200 GPD system for less than $200.A whole house system should probably need to deliver a reliable 200GPD at the very minimum.Shoot..flush a toilet and say goodbye to 5gals of water.That adds up in a hurry.

The problem is,that if you don't know better,these dealers can rip you a new one,and not even bat an eye.How to you go about finding a reputable dealer that sells a quality product? I don't want to appear mean or anything,but it sure seems like quality is severely lacking here,as well as any honor when it comes to people selling anything (or honoring a warranty or fixing errors).

Anyone have any firsthand experience?


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

I would only use the filter for drinking water, certainly wouldn't be flushing it down the toilet.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

RO is a very inefficient power hungry way of producing pure water. We use these systems for making de-ionised water for use in specialist klystron tube cooling systems. It is painfully slow and the cost per gallon is very high. You would do better to use a basic water filter to clean up your water supply.


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## jackstraw (Dec 28, 2014)

As others have said RO systems are very wasteful. Anywhere from 3 to 20 gallons used for every filtered gallon. I would look for a under sink model for the kitchen. Cheaper initial cost, and the filters are also significantly cheaper


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## SierraMadreMe (Mar 26, 2015)

I shouldn't have said flushing the toilet...I was being over the top.This system has a water softener portion that will remove most of the minerals causing the build up and "gunkification". I won't argue the fact that RO systems are expensive..and wasteful.Just bemoaning the fact that RO seems even more expensive here.

and the fact that it is hard to find reliable dealers..of anything.

Too bad there isn't a real effective solar distiller that would deliver enough quantity to be attractive.Maybe there is and I am just not aware...or handy.


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## Tukaram (Dec 18, 2014)

I think a lot of the dealers are not trying to rip you off - they just have no idea what they are selling. They are just selling whatever their boss said to sell ha ha... 

We had a big R/O unit on our ship and I loved it. We never needed to take "Navy showers". But, they do seem impractical for a whole house setup.


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## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

SierraMadreMe said:


> I don't want to appear mean or anything,but it sure seems like quality is severely lacking here,as well as any honor when it comes to people selling anything (or honoring a warranty or fixing errors).


As the old saying goes"Ya pays yer money & takes yer chances". My wife has to constantly remind me "that's how it is here". No such thing as Quality Control or Customer Service, these things have not been invented here yet.

Fred


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## SierraMadreMe (Mar 26, 2015)

I ended up getting a home filtration system.Our biggest complaint was the hard water and all the minerals gunking everything up.This system is supposed to help with the hard water and mineral deposits.I will spring for a RO system for under the sink drinking water.

Probably happier with this set-up.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

SierraMadreMe said:


> I ended up getting a home filtration system.Our biggest complaint was the hard water and all the minerals gunking everything up.This system is supposed to help with the hard water and mineral deposits.I will spring for a RO system for under the sink drinking water.
> 
> Probably happier with this set-up.


I wouldn't try RO for drinking water. It has very strange taste and texture on the tongue. Is bottled mineral water expensive there?


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## Tukaram (Dec 18, 2014)

hogrider said:


> I wouldn't try RO for drinking water. It has very strange taste and texture on the tongue. Is bottled mineral water expensive there?


We get our 5 gallon jugs refiled at the water station for p15. Drinking water is very cheap. 

Our well water is a bit funky though and we still had to add on a filter for the shower heater. The filter gets real nasty - I am sure it has saved the heaters life. We only filter our shower, but the well water smells bad enough it makes me question how clean are our dishes or laundry, using unfiltered water. I understand why people want a whole house filter system, I just have not looked into it myself.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

hogrider said:


> I wouldn't try RO for drinking water. It has very strange taste and texture on the tongue. Is bottled mineral water expensive there?


Bottled mineral water is just someone elses tap water. You need purified water to drink.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

Gary D said:


> Bottled mineral water is just someone elses tap water. You need purified water to drink.


Really?


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

hogrider said:


> Really?


Yes there are two types of bottled water available in the Philippines. Mineral water is just well water with the heavy bits strained out. There is then purified water, Absolute and Wilkins spring to mind. This is usually distilled. The water from the water stations should be ok if the equipment is maintained:fingerscrossed: Although not distilled it should have gone through UV treatment to kill the bugs.


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## 197649 (Jan 1, 2013)

I have 2 systems. I have a dual filter big blue ones you see in Ace and Wilcon, it filters the entire home. We then have a filter under the sink RO with UV. The other day a friend offered me Kangen.
67k for the basic up to (believe this) 257k. I did a search on Amazon they are just that expensive. In his sales pitch he did a water test. Soda Minreal Water Tap before filter tap after filter and tap after RO filter. The water after RO was Neutral the Kangen was high in Alkaline. Thats their see how healthy you can be pitch. Don't remember the cost sorry we bought it a while back. We drink a lot of water so it is well worth the cost to me. When my breaks I WILL buy another.

I personally watch the guys with the blue containers fill them from a water hose. So I don't trust them. I also think the inspections of the distributors is not done routinely.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

If the bottled mineral water is no good, wouldn't it be easier to just boil your tap water for drinking purposes. It can be put into bottles and kept in the fridge if you want it cold. RO is an extremely complicated and expensive way of producing drinking water.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

hogrider said:


> If the bottled mineral water is no good, wouldn't it be easier to just boil your tap water for drinking purposes. It can be put into bottles and kept in the fridge if you want it cold. RO is an extremely complicated and expensive way of producing drinking water.


Bottled water is cheapish and readily available, you just have to read the label then stick to one or two manufacturers. The magic words to look for are purifier or distilled. The word filtered is no indication of safety or cleanliness. You could pour any water through an old sock and it would be filtered.


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## Mountain42 (Sep 8, 2015)

Sierra,
A few years back I ran a couple of water purification companies for the Army and we used Reverse Osmosis (RO) units. RO is the best system for cleaning water, if price is no object. Also, RO can use water that other system just couldn't ever get clean. That said, RO is probably serious overkill for your needs. I'll suggest a few systems you might want to look at before buying. 

The first thing you need to know when looking for water purification systems is what are you trying to take out of the water. Sounds dumb untill you understand that most systems are better at removing one type of impurity or another. Have your water tested if at all possible. You are looking for a listing of Total dissolved solids (TDS) or the mineral content; a nitrite/nitrate test; and bacteriological sample. The TDS will tell you which filters are needed to make the water taste/look good and the nitrite and bacteria tests will tell you if the water will make you some without treatment. A quick search looks like there are a lot of testing labs in Batangas but make sure their certifications are current. In my search I found at least a half dozen places whose testing certifications lapsed last year. 

I would recommend you break your problem down into tow parts, removing TDS, and protecting agains biological hazards. 

If your water is chlorinated city water, don't worry about the second part and chlorine kills everything. If it's well water I recommend a metered chlorine pump or UV flow through system. Both chlorine and UV will kill Echoli and anything else living in the water. The advantage to chlorine is is works even if your power is off, where UV requires constant power to work so it might be a problem if you lose power after a storm. 

Removing minerals can be done by a wide variety of systems known broadly as media filters. In most systems the big particles get caught in the media and can't pass through or are destroyed by the media. I recommend looking at a "multi-media filter" or a "Manganese green sand filter". They are fantastic at removing iron and sulfur, if those are your problems, but also filtering out heavy metals. 

Last thoughts, make sure to match your required flow rate to the filters capability or you will find you can't take a shower while running the washing machine etcetera. All filters catch stuff, it's what you want, big house filters need to be back flushed to get that stuff out so the filter can get back to work. Make sure your system has an automatic back flush function. This keeps the filters running well for years and honestly you really don't want to add cleaning the water filter to your "honey do" list. 

Hope this helps, sorry it's a novel, it would have been easier over a couple beers but such is life. 

Cheers


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

An old post revisited but rightly so as it concerns health and well being. As others have said R.O. plants are expensive to buy, run and do require lots of monitoring and maintenance. These treatment plants are great if you have saline, very brackish or polluted water. Like others I have set up and run these plants and can require lots of work especially dealing with supplies for hundreds of people.
I also run 4 U.V. treatment plants on another site for the past 13 years which are very successful and a lot cheaper to run and maintain. Example, our catering team prepares and cooks food for 6 to 700 people per day and never an issue with water quality. The water comes from a creek that has waterborne pathogens such as E.coli etc. 
These systems can be purchased for as little a AU 1K depending on your supply demands and the water quality is as good as or better than bottled water according to our testing laboratory.
I will be investing in one of these systems for our house in PH. I won't need to purchase 5 gallon safe or unsafe water at 30 pesos but will have to replace filters periodically, but hey I will brush my teeth and not think about any nasties from the tap.

Cheers, Steve.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Junior56 said:


> UV is good for disinfection. However, it does nothing to reduce other contaminants in water. Furthermore, UV treatment is not effective when the water hardness is above 7 gpg, turbidity is above 1 NTU or when iron concentration exceeds 0.3 ppm. You probably need to test the water and make sure that you don't need any pre-treatment before UV.


Great info Junior, and yes we intended to have our well water analysed when we move early next year, fingers crossed we will only need one of these and not have to go down the reverse osmosis path.

https://tinyurl.com/ycqchg5r

Cheers, Steve.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

It should be noted that you only need the high end full treatment for the water you intend to drink or consume.

Water for flushing the toilet does not need any treatment unless you want to remove any suspended solids or other contaminants that will stain your fixtures. After all the purpose of that water is to flush away fecal material so in general no treatment is necessary. Same applies to water for washing clothes and most general usages, just take out any potential for the water to stain and you will be OK with it.

You may want some treatment for water for washing your body, this is usually only indicated if there is serious biological contamination in the water and then all that is needed is some disinfectant. If you would not swim in it, don't bath in it. Chlorine or uV will suffice provided the water is generally clear and free of turbidity (colour) and suspended solids.

The high end treatment like RO is only needed for water you will actually drink, generally not more than 4 l per person per day, usually less than that. An RO system is basically a microscopic filter so the inlet water to the RO part should go through several filters to take out all suspended solids or you will be replacing expensive RO filters more often when you could get away with replacing cheaper normal filters.

A family of 4 can be well served by a small under counter system with some storage capability in it.

I would also never trust a municipal system here. While I am sure that the operators do the best that they can, even in the developed countries we get problems with improper operation. Here with the poor maintenance standards you observe everywhere else plus the frequent flooding and overloading that some of these treatment plants receive, I'm not going to trust them when I can buy 20 l for 40p and be assured (as much as you can here lol) that the water is safe.


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## hogrider (May 25, 2010)

We don't do any filtering of the water coming into our house. It looks OK and doesn't taste bad, but mostly we use bottled water for drinking. No ill effects after 12 months.


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## SierraMadreMe (Mar 26, 2015)

The wife and I have been back in the US for a little over a year now,and it has been great to be home again.With the ramifications of a Trumpski administration we may have to revisit our decision to move back.I honestly don't know if I can handle moving back to the PI.Maybe if we could find a place in the boonies in Palawan.

My feelings are that a system that filters for household use would work,and then a UV for drinking water.As I understand it,the on and off (cycling) of the uv tube really shortens the bulbs life.Anyway,for the moment we have suspended the water question until we decide what we are going to end up doing.

Thanks to all who have responded to the thread.No need to end the thread tho,as there is still good information presented to the benefit of the members here both current,and future.

SMM


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

SierraMadreMe said:


> The wife and I have been back in the US for a little over a year now,and it has been great to be home again.With the ramifications of a Trumpski administration we may have to revisit our decision to move back.I honestly don't know if I can handle moving back to the PI.Maybe if we could find a place in the boonies in Palawan.
> 
> My feelings are that a system that filters for household use would work,and then a UV for drinking water.As I understand it,the on and off (cycling) of the uv tube really shortens the bulbs life.Anyway,for the moment we have suspended the water question until we decide what we are going to end up doing.
> 
> ...


Absolutely will keep the thread open and hope you will continue to contribute to the thread and the forum as a whole--Trump Notwithstanding--Hahaha. If nothing else he will seal the border and that should keep Calif part of the US---who knows. Haven't been back to the States in 15 years and sometimes miss the restaurants and culture.


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

SierraMadreMe said:


> The wife and I have been back in the US for a little over a year now,and it has been great to be home again.With the ramifications of a Trumpski administration we may have to revisit our decision to move back.I honestly don't know if I can handle moving back to the PI.Maybe if we could find a place in the boonies in Palawan.
> 
> My feelings are that a system that filters for household use would work,and then a UV for drinking water.As I understand it,the on and off (cycling) of the uv tube really shortens the bulbs life.Anyway,for the moment we have suspended the water question until we decide what we are going to end up doing.
> 
> ...


Welcome back Ted, I have certainly missed your input here. Whilst I won't get into your political problems I would suggest that no matter the country political issues are always on the agenda.
Back to water, the system I will use leaves the UV on 24/7 and the light tends to last 2 to 3 years and sometimes longer. The cost is in filter replacement, if you have reasonable water (have it tested as mountain 42 recommends) I recommend this too so you know what you are dealing with then not so bad but if you have brackish water then you really need an RO plant if you want to drink it. 
Providing you can filter water down to 5 microns, less is better the the UV will kill Pathogens as they travel past. This system works well with reasonable water but not necessarily if heavy metals are in the water.
Simply I just want to have a shower, brush my teeth and drink the water and not worry about bugs. I will have to wait until we move next year and have the water tested to see what we are dealing with.
Stay in touch Ted.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Darby Allen (Sep 22, 2014)

fmartin_gila said:


> ...No such thing as Quality Control or Customer Service, these things have not been invented here yet.


The reason for customer service being non-existent is that the workers are not paid enough to care!


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Darby Allen said:


> The reason for customer service being non-existent is that the workers are not paid enough to care!


That and not enough qualified supervision and rules that have some teeth in them.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Asian Spirit said:


> That and not enough qualified supervision and rules that have some teeth in them.


The 5 month probationary period comes into play. As I understand it, a new employee is disposable and paid a lot less for the first 5 months. After that they get some job security, benefits and pay enhancements by law.

Much easier and short term cheaper to simply hire someone for 5 months, terminate them and hire new Of course since they are only going to be employed a short time, no need to waste money training them.

Also the Asian concept of face works against people being confrontational, supervisors and customers don't want to confront a poor performer as much as would happen in a western country, especially the USA, so poor job performance goes unchallenged and uncorrected.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

bigpearl said:


> ....
> Back to water, the system I will use leaves the UV on 24/7 and the light tends to last 2 to 3 years and sometimes longer. .....


uV light disinfection systems will degrade to the point where they are not as effective long before there is visible evidence such as the light burning out. 

You should replace the bulbs annually. 

The Need to Change the UV Lamp

Why Must I Change My UV Bulb When it is Still Lit? -


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## bigpearl (Jan 24, 2016)

Manitoba said:


> uV light disinfection systems will degrade to the point where they are not as effective long before there is visible evidence such as the light burning out.
> 
> You should replace the bulbs annually.
> 
> ...


Good links and I see the logic and our supplier also recommends the same, we, on our site only replace the lamps if they blow (an audible alarm sounds,checked daily) or if the lab test comes back negative (submitted monthly) and also tested weekly onsite using a Total coliform/Ecoli bacteria indicator test kit.
As said the lamps remain effective until they fail (blow) and are replaced immediately, normally 2 to 3 years at $180.00 each and we run 4 systems.
I have been using these systems since 2005 and they work perfectly. A few years ago I was required to submit a "Water quality assurance plan" to NSW Health and passed with flying colours.

https://tinyurl.com/yb7henud

Replacing UVC lamps annually is probably a good idea if the system is not monitored with regular visual inspections and periodic biological testing.
I have also had a couple of these lamps blow after only 3 or 4 months use over the last 13 years so it does pay to inspect and have a system with an alarm in case of failure.

Cheers, Steve.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

I personally prefer chlorine to disinfect. You can test for a residual right there and if there is one then the water will be disinfected. As long as you are not overdosing there is no health risk from the chlorine in the water. 

With a uV or ozone system you need to have the water tested for biological presence. That takes time and you could be drinking contaminated water while the tests are being done. 

I have worked on municipal plants where they had banks of bulbs and daily testing and guess what? They changed the bulbs every year without fail. They would change a quarter of them every 3 months but bought an annual supply at the start of the budget year.

They still chlorinated the water after the uV but did not need as much chlorine to get the residual required. That was to protect against cross contamination after the water left the plant. People in that community would install sand points (shallow wells) and connect them to their household system. This would back flow into the municipal system in cases of high demand on it. (If you are going to supplement your municipal water then only connect to a separate water system in your house, i.e. toilet flushing loop separate from the domestic water system.)


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

Manitoba said:


> I personally prefer chlorine to disinfect. You can test for a residual right there and if there is one then the water will be disinfected. As long as you are not overdosing there is no health risk from the chlorine in the water.
> 
> With a uV or ozone system you need to have the water tested for biological presence. That takes time and you could be drinking contaminated water while the tests are being done.
> 
> ...


Many places you have to fit a non return valve to prevent backfeeding the supply, I know that when we bought a mother meter recently, we supply about 40 houses around us, that the meter had an internal one way valve.


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## Tim_L (Jul 14, 2018)

Gary D said:


> Many places you have to fit a non return valve to prevent backfeeding the supply, I know that when we bought a mother meter recently, we supply about 40 houses around us, that the meter had an internal one way valve.


A backflow preventer is pretty standard in the US.
I definitely wouldn’t want to contaminate my water source. I am not real familiar with how the whole water systems operates there, but I am learning. Or trying I should say.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Tim_L said:


> A backflow preventer is pretty standard in the US.
> I definitely wouldn’t want to contaminate my water source. I am not real familiar with how the whole water systems operates there, but I am learning. Or trying I should say.


For drinking water and or brushing teeth I use strictly the distilled water and buy it in the 11 liter plastic. I hate taking chances with health and have found the distilled water is the only way to prevent problems.


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## Tim_L (Jul 14, 2018)

Asian Spirit said:


> For drinking water and or brushing teeth I use strictly the distilled water and buy it in the 11 liter plastic. I hate taking chances with health and have found the distilled water is the only way to prevent problems.


Agreed, I use bottled water for anything that goes into my mouth including cooking.
I am in no way, shape, or form looking to get sick from bad water. 
Thankfully, unlike the US, bottled water is quite cheap over there.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Tim_L said:


> Agreed, I use bottled water for anything that goes into my mouth including cooking.
> I am in no way, shape, or form looking to get sick from bad water.
> Thankfully, unlike the US, bottled water is quite cheap over there.


Yea it's pretty low cost. Another thing to be careful of is sauces from street venders. Water used for the sauces are heated only enough to cook and don't kill the bacteria. Another is using ice when out at restaurants etc. Unless it is "tube ice" the same risks apply


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## Tim_L (Jul 14, 2018)

Asian Spirit said:


> Yea it's pretty low cost. Another thing to be careful of is sauces from street venders. Water used for the sauces are heated only enough to cook and don't kill the bacteria. Another is using ice when out at restaurants etc. Unless it is "tube ice" the same risks apply


I never eat from street vendors but thank you for the heads up on the ice in restaurants. I hadn’t even considered that one. 👍🏻
Coke, no ice for me!! 😂😂😂😂


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## Zep (Jun 8, 2017)

I get a kick out of some of the guys that use filtered water to shower and brush their teeth.  I guess they never have a drink with ice in it because guaranteed it is not filtered water. That seems like a bigger risk than brushing your teeth. 

I drink mineral water but have drank from the faucet with no ill effects. So brushing my teeth and showering with tap water is of no concern.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Zep said:


> I get a kick out of some of the guys that use filtered water to shower and brush their teeth.  I guess they never have a drink with ice in it because guaranteed it is not filtered water. That seems like a bigger risk than brushing your teeth.
> 
> I drink mineral water but have drank from the faucet with no ill effects. So brushing my teeth and showering with tap water is of no concern.


Indeed you are one of the lucky few that is able to tolerate the local, bacterial infested water from wells and water companies etc. As you age you might find that could change. This is especially true if some medications are prescribed. Some can effect the good bacteria that naturally exists in your stomach and intestines and bingo--a permanent change in water source would become necessary. This is from experience.


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## Zep (Jun 8, 2017)

I'm not suggesting to drink the tap water as your 8 glasses per day but brushing your teeth and bathing with tap water should not be a issue.

Since I plan to live here long term exposing myself (lol) to the water on occasion is a good way to build up some resistance to it. I would hate to be traveling and get sick because I ate something washed in the water. 

I have noticed that I am becoming more immune to mosquito and ant bites but will never be like the locals. My mosquito bites are no longer the size of a peso coin that stay red and itchy for weeks. They are much smaller and go away after a few days. Same with the ant stings that used to pustule up after a day and stay that way for a week. Now they are gone in 2 days.


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## Manitoba (Jun 25, 2014)

Zep said:


> I'm not suggesting to drink the tap water as your 8 glasses per day but brushing your teeth and bathing with tap water should not be a issue.
> 
> .....


Toothpaste has antibacterial properties so brushing is not that much of an issue.

Not many bacteria will enter through your skin so showering as long as you don't drink it is also not that much of a problem. Open cuts and wounds might be a problem tough. 

The idea that a single bacteria can cause illness is simply not true. Your immune system will take care of a stray bug or two or even a couple million of the little ******s.

You need millions to have sufficient in you to multiply and stay ahead of your immune system to get sick.


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## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

From time to time there are and can be Amoeba on foods. Usually contained in and transmitted through water. Once they enter the mouth they will find their way to the large and small intestines causing severe stomach cramps and diarrhea . Depending on the variety they can also cause fever and vomiting causing dehydration quickly. Horrible thing to wind up with and the antibiotic used to kill it makes you even more sick during the 7 day treatment. There is NO immunity from these but can be avoided by using only purified or distilled water. Again, I post this from experience. One learns a lot living here for 15+ years. Not always fun.


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## Gary D (Oct 28, 2013)

I only drink the absolute or watkins bottles, the family the blue tanks from a water station. We have a deep well which we use for washing etc, I'll clean my teeth with it but won't drink it. As I've said before we supply about 40 houses and many do drink it. The pipes to our house are buried so don't sit in the sun. I suspect a lot of the problem with the potable water in the Philippines is not the water source but the distribution.


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