# why are we here?



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Ok, I've been thinking recently... not a good thing for me to do and I should stop! But what is it that people expect when they come to Spain? why do they want to come? Indeed why did we all come over here? 

People "bang" on about quality of life, a better life, relaxed attitude, escaping the UK, blah blah... But is it really like that?? what is it that drives us to give up an environment we know, security, move away from all our friends and family? and is it all its cracked up to be when we finally get here?

I've been here for just over a year now and I'm happy, I love it. But it really isnt how I thought it would be, life goes on much the same as it ever did, household chores, kids and their issues, money worries, shopping, cooking, cleaning, friends.... There are days here that I often think well the only difference to my life is that the doors are open cos its warm outside and my washing dries quicker! Maybe the novelty has warn off?? dont get me wrong I wouldnt wanna ever go back and there are still the wonderful moments like driving to pick the kids up from school and looking across at the spectacular views, watching them laughing and playing in the pool, sitting outside of street bars... But these things play a very small part in my day to day life and I often find myself questioning it all. I miss my older children in the UK, was all the upheaval, hassle and cost worth it, Have I done the right thing for the children? are they gonna be happier and better people cos we're here?? or will they hate me for taking them away from their UK lives?

I'm rambling a bit, but these are all things to be considered when you plan this very big step. 

Any thoughts anyone???

Jo xx


----------



## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

jojo said:


> Ok, I've been thinking recently... not a good thing for me to do and I should stop! But what is it that people expect when they come to Spain? why do they want to come? Indeed why did we all come over here?
> 
> People "bang" on about quality of life, a better life, relaxed attitude, escaping the UK, blah blah... But is it really like that?? what is it that drives us to give up an environment we know, security, move away from all our friends and family? and is it all its cracked up to be when we finally get here?
> 
> ...


Yes, like you said you should stop thinking :lol:

Most people come to Spain for the weather and / or for a change of scenery

Dave :lol:


----------



## anles (Feb 11, 2009)

I think that is a very interesting point, what is it that makes people come to Spain in the first place and does it live up their expectations?
I came here as a child with my mother and step father, and yes, for many years I hated them for it and resented it. Although, the part of Spain we came to was nothing like the expat areas down south where I suppose is easier for children to integrate. Or maybe not intergrate with the Spanish community but at least miss England and English things and people less.
During nearly all my childhood and adolescence my sole aim was to move back but when I was finally 18 and old enough to make the move, other things got in the way so I never did.
For over 20 years I never had any contact with other English people and I suppose I had a distorted view of the UK. It was only when I started to work in my present job I had contact with other English people and it was then I started to appreciate things I have taken for granted all my life. Having English friends has been a real bonus for me although there are only relatively a few dotted about. It is wonderful to share many things in different ways. But most of all it has made me more aware of how different the UK really is to how I thought it was, it is very sad on one level, often unbelievable and it has completely cured me of any doubts. 
So, Jo, I do think it's a good thing for your children but it might take them 30 years to agree with you!!!


----------



## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Can I come back and answer this one later please, after I've had a few glasses of wine and have some mood music on in the background??!!:eyebrows::rockon:

Tallulah.xx


----------



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Hmmmmmmmmmmm - a topic Jo that is discussed in our household many a moonlit evening! usually instigated by me I might add .... and this is because it is me who has the "doubts" and my OH has none and is completely settled / happy / content here etc etc.

For me its complicated .... of course it is IM A WOMAN! I dont do simple thinking ...

I could go on for pages but I wont .... in essence I do enjoy my life here and all that Spain offers - you mention most of them in your post.

We moved here to try and achieve a better work / life balance with the "life" part being improved by sunshine, attitude, less crime, Spanish people, scenery etc etc etc etc ... and we certainly have that

BUT - its not what I expected at all really on some fronts ... I work much harder, for much longer, for less money, for less prospects - therefore my work / life balance is actually worse than it ever was in the UK. I find the winters much longer each year and I miss the usual things like friends, family and especially seeing my two children who are 24 and 21 as much as I would like.

I went through periods (and still do sometimes if Im honest) of wanting to go back - but actually I know I wont - because the UK has changed enormously in the 5 years we have been away from it - and not for the better. So when Im having a negative day or feeling "displaced" I sort of feel orphaned!!! because I have a sense of not really belonging in either place anymore ..... maybe I will try another Country before I grow old or die ! lol

But I think wherever we are living we all have periods of time when things look better over someones elses fence! its life ... we cant be happy, content and blissful all of the time....

I still love Spain ... and I can list more things here that I love than I can for the UK 

Im having a good day today so I love where I am .... tomorow ??? who knows !!

Ciao for now 
lane:

ps Tally! is the clock wrong on this forum or are you p****** at 10.30 in the morning ! lol


----------



## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> I find the winters much longer each year



Hi Sue,

May I ask, where in the North are you guys based :lol:


----------



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

SunnySpain said:


> Hi Sue,
> 
> May I ask, where in the North are you guys based :lol:


lol ... we have lived in Coin (2+ years) Elviria, San Pedo and now Estepona ... all in the South and all bloody cold in winter no matter what the brochures tell you !!! I have more fleeces and wooly socks on here between October and April than I ever did in Derbyshire! :lol:


----------



## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> lol ... we have lived in Coin (2+ years) Elviria, San Pedo and now Estepona ... all in the South and all bloody cold in winter no matter what the brochures tell you !!! I have more fleeces and wooly socks on here between October and April than I ever did in Derbyshire! :lol:



Ah well thats a subject worth discussing. It does get cold in winter, even on the Costa del Sol. So why are properties not constructed with adequate heating ?

It seems to me that properties are built purely for holidaying and not for living in all year round. I think it's a cost cutting strategy employed by the construction companies. They just don't think about or care about the people that buy the properties they constructed, all they want is money from the sale

Heating is one thing, but we have noticed numerous construction errors and yet the owners have little chance of ever getting the original builders to out it right

It's a subject that government should be addressing in my view

Dave


----------



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

SunnySpain said:


> Ah well thats a subject worth discussing. It does get cold in winter, even on the Costa del Sol. So why are properties not constructed with adequate heating ?
> 
> It seems to me that properties are built purely for holidaying and not for living in all year round. I think it's a cost cutting strategy employed by the construction companies. They just don't think about or care about the people that buy the properties they constructed, all they want is money from the sale
> 
> ...


Hi Dave ... Jo will get all official on us if we change topic (particularly when its her original post lol!!) So I will be quick here ..... absolutely agree - not constructed to cope with anything other than sunshine and warm weather - and unless you have tons of money and can get underfloor heating everywhere the tiled floors are a nightmare in winter! as are the big glass windows .... ! Maybe we Brits are just soft when it comes to coping with the cold ... I just know I would kill for carpets and radiators in Winter - but obviously its far more glamorous to walk around in very thick socks, fluffy dressing gowns and pyjamas! (which the Spanish have a fetish for Im sure as they have shops just dedicated to selling Pyjamas!!):focus:


----------



## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Hi Dave ... Jo will get all official on us if we change topic (particularly when its her original post lol!!) So I will be quick here ..... absolutely agree - not constructed to cope with anything other than sunshine and warm weather - and unless you have tons of money and can get underfloor heating everywhere the tiled floors are a nightmare in winter! as are the big glass windows .... ! Maybe we Brits are just soft when it comes to coping with the cold ... I just know I would kill for carpets and radiators in Winter - but obviously its far more glamorous to walk around in very thick socks, fluffy dressing gowns and pyjamas! (which the Spanish have a fetish for Im sure as they have shops just dedicated to selling Pyjamas!!):focus:


Well, it's a catholic country - they don't advocate the use of contraception - but what says "keep away" equally as well is a floor length winceyette nightie, quilted dressing gown and bed socks......sexy!!!

ooops!!:focus:


----------



## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Hmmmmm. Why are we here?? Well, for me it was because after living in my paradise in Turkey I could not settle back in the UK and could not work to support myself in Turkey. Spain seemed to be ideally placed where I could possibly get work and be independent. I came here alone  scary or what!!Not knowing a sole with a small amount of savings I managed to pick up work within 4 days of being here. That ec=scalated into 2 jobs and found a long term rental. 

I have found working here really harrowing tho'. Long hours, low pay without rights, no holiday pay and no pension and only on part time contracts. Added to all this has been the running around in 40deg in the height of the summer was no joke.

Why did I stay, you may ask. Well, after 4 years of being here on my own but having made some good friends along the way, my ex husband that was, came out to join me  which took the pressure off needing to work in such bad conditions. Now, I can enjoy lying in ths shade on the grass by the pool when it gets really hot. This is what Spain is all about IMHO. The outdoor life. The siiting in the cafe and watching the world go by. How often is it warm enough to do that in the UK!? The sights are lovely but for me nothing beats the green hills of england. It is such a pretty country and I intend to visit soon to get another glimps of them.

In a nutshell, if you have to work it's a hell on earth!! I am lucky enough to have computer work!! If you don't then it can be a wonderful place to live. I am lucky enough to have computer work!!


----------



## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Chica said:


> This is what Spain is all about IMHO. The outdoor life. The siiting in the cafe and watching the world go by. How often is it warm enough to do that in the UK!? The sights are lovely but for me nothing beats the green hills of england. It is such a pretty country and I intend to visit soon to get another glimps of them.



Sounds like you could fall in love with Asturias or Cantabria 

May be worth you going for a visit :lol:


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

SunnySpain said:


> Ah well thats a subject worth discussing. It does get cold in winter, even on the Costa del Sol. So why are properties not constructed with adequate heating ?
> 
> It seems to me that properties are built purely for holidaying and not for living in all year round. I think it's a cost cutting strategy employed by the construction companies. They just don't think about or care about the people that buy the properties they constructed, all they want is money from the sale
> 
> ...


dont you get me started on the cold! I've just about managed to erase this last winter from my brain... well nearly, I've never, ever been so cold for so long as I was this last winter, scraping ice off the car, huddled round the fan heater for hours, hot water bottles, coats, blankets, thick socks......!!

The Spanish houses really do need to be built for both the heat of the summer and the cold of the winter. Central heating, insulation... carpets even??? Gutters for the torrential rains???

And bringing this nicely back to topic! I had no idea that it got that cold in Spain in the winter! and I'll bet a lot of "would be" expats dont realise that either!! Something worth thinking about when you decide on living here. cos the winter lasts for half the year!!

Jo xxxx


----------



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

In a nutshell, if you have to work it's a hell on earth!! 

Well its difficult I grant you! and somedays on my mammoth journey from Malaga to Estepona after a longggggggggggggggggg day at work I truly believe its hell!! but at other times of the day ... like 10 minutes ago when I was sitting in a little square off Calle Larios in Malaga drinking my coffee and chatting to my friends on my mobile .... it was pretty cool!

In all seriousness - if you do have to work its can be very very difficult (it was even like that in the "good" times) .... and people thinking of coming over to live really do need to take that into account and plan accordingly if they can .... alternatively if you have the opportunity of working for yourself and paying your way its probably less hellish!

I look forward to the day when I win the euromillions and can spend more time in La Canada ! :cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:


----------



## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

SunnySpain said:


> Sounds like you could fall in love with Asturias or Cantabria
> 
> May be worth you going for a visit :lol:


You know, I have been giving it a lot of thought about moving further up north. The summer would probably be cooler?? And then I think about the winter 
Where there's grass, there's rain!  I love the rain now because we don't see much of it . but snow and ice!!! And since living here in my particular area it has never been cold enough to see your breath. I haven't seen ice or snow, exept for on the mountains, for 6 years. The ideal for me would be to live up north in the summer and here in the winter. Or even go back to the UK for July and August. But hey, there aren't many who have this luxury are there!??

Jo. If you really want to get away from the cold you are in the wrong place


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Chica said:


> Jo. If you really want to get away from the cold you are in the wrong place


yes, Teneriffe sounds nice in the winter?

Jo xx


----------



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Chica said:


> You know, I have been giving it a lot of thought about moving further up north. The summer would probably be cooler?? And then I think about the winter
> Where there's grass, there's rain!  I love the rain now because we don't see much of it . but snow and ice!!! And since living here in my particular area it has never been cold enough to see your breath. I haven't seen ice or snow, exept for on the mountains, for 6 years. The ideal for me would be to live up north in the summer and here in the winter. Or even go back to the UK for July and August. But hey, there aren't many who have this luxury are there!??
> 
> Jo. If you really want to get away from the cold you are in the wrong place


Chica - wherabouts in Turkey were you ? I only visited Bodrum - 3 or 4 times in the past 18 months for work - but I really like it .......


----------



## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Chica - wherabouts in Turkey were you ? I only visited Bodrum - 3 or 4 times in the past 18 months for work - but I really like it .......


On the Datca penninsula the one under the Bodrum peninsula. It's soooo beautiful and unspoilt. You would access it either by boat from Bodrum or via Marmaris. Are you planning to go again? We have no chance until/if they join the EU. It's the rich Turks play ground and not widely known. The town isn't anything special but travelling around it is breath taking. I was lucky to have befriended a tour guide who took me all over the place. The language thing tho' is really, really hard


----------



## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Ps: how on earth did you manage to find work out there???


----------



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Chica said:


> Ps: how on earth did you manage to find work out there???


Hi Chica .... No I didnt actually work in Bodrum permanently ... I worked for a company here in Spain for 3 years and part of my job was to set up overseas offices, and also "help" third parties such as Lawyers etc set up theirs ... I was therefore sent to Bodrum, Turkey 4 times for this purpose ..... usually a week at a time .... it was a good part of my job at the time! I loved the food, the people, the colour of the water and of course the markets! ... our offices over there were staffed by Turkish people mainly but with a couple of English girls who lived there ...

Sue


----------



## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Hi Chica .... No I didnt actually work in Bodrum permanently ... I worked for a company here in Spain for 3 years and part of my job was to set up overseas offices, and also "help" third parties such as Lawyers etc set up theirs ... I was therefore sent to Bodrum, Turkey 4 times for this purpose ..... usually a week at a time .... it was a good part of my job at the time! I loved the food, the people, the colour of the water and of course the markets! ... our offices over there were staffed by Turkish people mainly but with a couple of English girls who lived there ...
> 
> Sue


That's a good job you have/had there.:thumb: . The sea is the greatest swimming pool in the world. The food mmmmmmmmm yummy even for a meat eater. The vegetarian dishes are really tasty. MOH is a veggie and it's so mundane for him to eat out over here as there is not much choice. Could it be possible for you to transfer there??? Would you want to??I would be so jealous if you did out::hurt:


----------



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Chica said:


> That's a good job you have/had there.:thumb: . The sea is the greatest swimming pool in the world. The food mmmmmmmmm yummy even for a meat eater. The vegetarian dishes are really tasty. MOH is a veggie and it's so mundane for him to eat out over here as there is not much choice. Could it be possible for you to transfer there??? Would you want to??I would be so jealous if you did out::hurt:


lol ... no I cant transfer there because I left that particular company last year - but I get to travel with my current job too .... but not Turkey unfortunately ... Im off to Bulgaria in a couple of weeks time - and just waiting for them to decide I desperately need to visit our other office in Brazil but cant see that one at the moment!!! but will keep my fingers crossed


----------



## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> lol ... no I cant transfer there because I left that particular company last year - but I get to travel with my current job too .... but not Turkey unfortunately ... Im off to Bulgaria in a couple of weeks time - and just waiting for them to decide I desperately need to visit our other office in Brazil but cant see that one at the moment!!! but will keep my fingers crossed


Oh well. at least you won't have to learn the language. The other good thing, apart from getting to these other countries is that you won't have to be stuck in the traffic jams.  What are you going to do the the height of the summer?? Aaaah, you have aircon. :doh:


----------



## scharlack (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey,

The wife and I are here for a short ride that's (almost) certain. By working in IT at subcontract land we won't struggle to find jobs, but there isn't much stability and the lack of industry is something to consider, too. I mainly work for banks and a couple other big companies which very much limits things.

As much as I enjoy Spain (and I have only been here for half a year) I don't think this is the place I want to be for the rest of my life. I have no kids and would never have a kid raised in Madrid for what I have seen here ...

Food is great and the history of this country is fantastic along with a multicultural society. 

For me the weather is not any better than what I had back home 

All in all it's another great experience and we learn from it. I am thankful to have lived it all !


----------



## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Yes scharlach. how are we expected to find our utopia unless we go out and try different countries. So, Spain is not on your ideal list. Are job prospects better here than in Brazil? Without children is the best time to go out and grab the world by the b..ls if you have the :freedom and finance to do that.

Will you try another country when you leave here?


----------



## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Chica said:


> You know, I have been giving it a lot of thought about moving further up north. The summer would probably be cooler??
> 
> The ideal for me would be to live up north in the summer and here in the winter. Or even go back to the UK for July and August. But hey, there aren't many who have this luxury are there!??
> 
> Jo. If you really want to get away from the cold you are in the wrong place


Yes Chica the summers up North are far better than the South.
Much cooler, rarely gets over 27 degrees, but summer last 2 months only.

Many Spaniards head North come the summer, its the norm 

Dave


----------



## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

SunnySpain said:


> Yes Chica the summers up North are far better than the South.
> Much cooler, rarely gets over 27 degrees, but summer last 2 months only.
> 
> Many Spaniards head North come the summer, its the norm
> ...


You should check out Galicia, Chica, if you ever get the chance. Actually it can get really hot - but not unbearably (well, saying that, I did visit a beach one day and the digital sign was over 100 degrees!!). A lot of places here, although extremely green, have their own little micro climates - it could be p-ing down in Santiago, for example (as is often the case) but gorgeous where we are. The landscapes are breathtaking and the beaches - well, beautiful and with blue flags! Even though it can get cold in wiinter, it's never as bad as it was in the UK - we certainly don't scrape ice of the cars where we are - about 1 or 2 degrees at night, but it quickly warms up again during the day.....so you've got all that, the gorgeous views, snuggling around the log fire with a hot toddy....mmmmm!!! By January/February we're usually back on the beach - it's warm enough some days to walk around in a t-shirt and have a picnic there. I wouldn't swim, it's still a bit cold for me then - but you still get the odd "nutter" braving it!! Summer really starts mid May (compared to the UK) but lasts till end Sept/early Oct. Even though the weather's on the change then and becoming slightly cooler, it's still warm enough for outside activities. The environmental temperature has changed over the past few years and fruit trees, etc are definitely confused, producing much earlier than they ever did. Tempted?!?!

Tally.xx


----------



## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

scharlack said:


> Hey,
> 
> 
> As much as I enjoy Spain (and I have only been here for half a year) I don't think this is the place I want to be for the rest of my life. I have no kids and would never have a kid raised in Madrid for what I have seen here ...
> ...



Hey,

Interest viewpoint and considering you live in Madrid it does not surprise me one bit. The weather in Madrid is extreme, very cold in winter and very hot in summer

I think you would like it more on the coast, either near Barcelona or South.

We would never recommend Madrid as a place to visit nevermind live.

Honestly, you can do much better than the centre of Spain when it comes to weather. My OH was born in South America and after moving to Spain she was depressed for 4 years, missing her country, her people and the weather.

We now live down South and the weather is much better and the people are more open. It could be your ticket as you can move with work, much like us

Dave


----------



## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Tallulah said:


> You should check out Galicia, Chica, if you ever get the chance. Actually it can get really hot - but not unbearably (well, saying that, I did visit a beach one day and the digital sign was over 100 degrees!!). A lot of places here, although extremely green, have their own little micro climates - it could be p-ing down in Santiago, for example (as is often the case) but gorgeous where we are. The landscapes are breathtaking and the beaches - well, beautiful and with blue flags!
> 
> Even though it can get cold in wiinter, it's never as bad as it was in the UK - we certainly don't scrape ice of the cars where we are - about 1 or 2 degrees at night, but it quickly warms up again during the day.....so you've got all that, the gorgeous views, snuggling around the log fire with a hot toddy....mmmmm!!! By January/February we're usually back on the beach - it's warm enough some days to walk around in a t-shirt and have a picnic there.
> 
> ...



I ditto the above, although we though it was cold in January & February, but certainly there are micro climates and the Rias Baixes is a very good spot and like Tally says the scenery is absolutely incredible and that goes for nearly all the North of Spain.

If its natural beauty and mild summers you want then North is your best bet.

Dave


----------



## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

Just clocked this thread & thought it was all about life, the universe & everything (42) which is a bit too deep for me but you mean Spain! .............. right ............ I'm with you now.

1) The coffee
2) The people (Spanish not brits)
3) The laid back lifestyle (if you don't have to work)
4) The bread
5) The weather
6) ....er...... did I mention the coffee?



Doggy


----------



## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

owdoggy said:


> Just clocked this thread & thought it was all about life, the universe & everything (42) which is a bit too deep for me but you mean Spain! .............. right ............ I'm with you now.
> 
> 1) The coffee
> 2) The people (Spanish not brits)
> ...


We know, Doggy - you once said it was "orgasmic"!!!! So I guess it's pretty good then.....


Yeah I thought that too on first reading the thread title - I thought Jo's been on something and is spaced out....we need to be sitting on beanbags now - anyone play a zither/guitar?!?! That's why I asked if I could come back later and answer this after having a few glasses of wine!!!

Tallulah.x


----------



## SteveBarbosa (Mar 17, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> You should check out Galicia, Chica, if you ever get the chance. Actually it can get really hot - but not unbearably (well, saying that, I did visit a beach one day and the digital sign was over 100 degrees!!). A lot of places here, although extremely green, have their own little micro climates - it could be p-ing down in Santiago, for example (as is often the case) but gorgeous where we are. The landscapes are breathtaking and the beaches - well, beautiful and with blue flags! Even though it can get cold in wiinter, it's never as bad as it was in the UK - we certainly don't scrape ice of the cars where we are - about 1 or 2 degrees at night, but it quickly warms up again during the day.....so you've got all that, the gorgeous views, snuggling around the log fire with a hot toddy....mmmmm!!! By January/February we're usually back on the beach - it's warm enough some days to walk around in a t-shirt and have a picnic there. I wouldn't swim, it's still a bit cold for me then - but you still get the odd "nutter" braving it!! Summer really starts mid May (compared to the UK) but lasts till end Sept/early Oct. Even though the weather's on the change then and becoming slightly cooler, it's still warm enough for outside activities. The environmental temperature has changed over the past few years and fruit trees, etc are definitely confused, producing much earlier than they ever did. Tempted?!?!
> 
> Tally.xx


Just reading this post has tempted me!!

Glad to hear you are all enjoying it. I am still in the UK (Bekshire's M4 corridor!) and I can tell ya that there are many things I appreciate about where I am, but ultimately you cannot compare the best of uk with the best of spain. There are so many people living here, so much traffic, radio is always going on about travel news (yawn!), weather is still low teens (brr!), outdoor acitivites and places to visit are increasing in price and are v.expensive! Kids dont get the same education here as spain, nor do they get to live life outdoors in the same manner. Lack of real communities here mean kids become insular, in fact we all do. Is this a way to live?

Yes, winters in my part of UK are mild'ish, but hell, the rain and constant damp look I hate it!

We're coming over in july and we can't wait! I'm in IT but even that is changing here - squeezing us even more until something has to give. Downsizing or whatever you call it. Eventually we wont be able to do any more cost cutting cos we've exhausted all avenues. Will it have been worth it? Well, I hope not to be around here to tell the tale of my woes.

Look to the positives and enjoy life while you can and have good health. Life is for living - ole!

Take Care, Steve


----------



## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

SteveBarbosa said:


> Just reading this post has tempted me!!
> 
> Glad to hear you are all enjoying it. I am still in the UK (Bekshire's M4 corridor!) and I can tell ya that there are many things I appreciate about where I am, but ultimately you cannot compare the best of uk with the best of spain. There are so many people living here, so much traffic, radio is always going on about travel news (yawn!), weather is still low teens (brr!), outdoor acitivites and places to visit are increasing in price and are v.expensive! Kids dont get the same education here as spain, nor do they get to live life outdoors in the same manner. Lack of real communities here mean kids become insular, in fact we all do. Is this a way to live?
> 
> ...


Well, traffic is something we definitely don't miss, Steve! Now, bad traffic is being unlucky and catching traffic going home from the town you've just spent an afternoon shopping in, enjoying cafe bars, etc. You can spend a good 20 mins at lights and the like with cars on highways, moving at only 30 mph, but NEVER a situation where the lights change and no-one has moved an inch. 

It's a move we certainly haven't regretted - hell, even if it's raining we still prefer it here over anywhere else. There's something about the distant hills with mists which arise from the river and the rain fall when you're sitting on your porch having a hot toddy! We actually enjoy it better that way, than having 40 degrees heat and arid surroundings, but as they say, to each his own.

One other thing I would say - there's an awful lot quoted on here about the quality of construction. Clearly there have been some odd goings on in the supposed "holiday zones" down South. In our experience, obviously in the house we've built these problems don't exist but more to the point, we did not have to come up with any unusual spec. The floor/wall/roof insulation techniques were all part of the standard offering from the company and I promise you, if you saw the re-inforced concrete slab pours that are our roofs, you'd wonder what on earth they were building for.... Nothing to do with our requirements, but entirely their own specs. In our opinion, massively overengineered construction wise, but at least we know it's not going anywhere.

Even the old Galician houses with their 1m deep stone walls, are cool in the summer and warm in the winter. My husband in his younger years  did play a little bit with the booming Southern Spain property market, particularly in the Torrevieja area and he says he fully understands what the posters complaining about the cold are referring to. It really was a "get it up quick and sell it" environment he witnessed. Even to the point where things like wiring specs weren't respected simply because problems wouldn't arise for X years. Things have changed now and ten year structural guarantees and green energy efficient homes/builds have been made law by the Galician government. I assume this to be the case with other parts of Spain (?) so hopefullly no more of these quick buck builds will be allowed.

If you do come over and consider buying, don't be afraid to ask for the project if the property isn't very old. That should tell you all you need to know about how it was built - it has to be approved pre licence by the School of Architects.

Anyway, that's enough of me droning on. And welcome to the forum, Steve!!

Tallulah.x


----------



## Normatheexdiva (Jan 29, 2009)

I came here for my health. But have really come to appreciate:
1. The Coffee
2. The climate. 
3. The language
4. The great big thick granite walls of my house.
5. The wine. 
6. The seafood
All are equal really, but over the last three months my neighbours have turned my life around. The neighbours in the next village have been amazing and so it's the people. Some of the expats are lovely, some are odd and one is a brave little chica who hides a tremendous intellect and lives off her nerves, her coffee and her ****. She knows who she is....


----------



## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

I'm here to screw some under 30 Espanolas!


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

XTreme said:


> I'm here to screw some under 30 Espanolas!


.... been here for decades and still hoping!!???????????? :lol:


Jo xx


----------



## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

And I thought he was a happily married man!!! He who dares, wins, eh?!?!:juggle:


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Tallulah said:


> And I thought he was a happily married man!!! He who dares, wins, eh?!?!:juggle:


he likes to dream!! 

Jo xx


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I'm here because 
1. My husband is Spanish and he doesn't move much outside Spain
2. I'm pretty sure my standard of living is higher here than it would be in the UK. (Even though in general earnings are lower and hours are longer)
3. The weather is better, even though it gets cold here (my parents find it hard to believe we get frost let alone the 15cm of snow we had this year)
4. I find the UK depressing somehow. People just don't seem to get so much enjoyment out of life and life seems harder there


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

owdoggy said:


> Just clocked this thread & thought it was all about life, the universe & everything (42) which is a bit too deep for me but you mean Spain! .............. right ............ I'm with you now.
> 
> 1) The coffee
> 2) The people (Spanish not brits)
> ...


Coffee doesn't do it for me. I still need my daily trough of tea, and it has to be British. "Hornimans" no thankyou!


----------



## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

I have travelled a little around northern Spain whilst calling into La Caruna on a sailing course from the Isle of White. I was amazed how green it was and quite like England with it's hedgerows. We all (8 of us) wanted to see Finister Lighthouse being salty seadogs so I can appreciate what you are all saying about the north.

Ok. Here's my list:

Dramatic coastline.
No snow or ice (in the distance is ok!!)
To live in the campo without needing a car and close enough to shops etc.
Internet connection.
Not too far from an airport or ferry point.
Affordable long term rent.
A 36ft yatch that's going free :lol:

Where do you northeners suggest? Any ideas?


----------



## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Is that what you've got now and why you're here, or your wish list, Chica?

Tally.xxx


----------



## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> Is that what you've got now and why you're here, or your wish list, Chica?
> 
> Tally.xxx


It's my wish list Tally. If I was to move these are the things that I would want.


----------



## Normatheexdiva (Jan 29, 2009)

Can just about do the internet connection. But only just...
Galicia is like England. With extra strong England for added seasoning (nettles, normally) and some Scotland too and in the north, I think it can look a little like Scandinavia? 
But what do I know?
I live in the middle. So no ferry ports too close.
Rent is cheap. 
There's a catamaran on the rio Mino and one on the Sil.
The middle has a certain charm. Not sure what it is really, but it gets under your skin. 
Must be the wine. It's certainly not the Orujo. Noooooo.

xxx




Chica said:


> I have travelled a little around northern Spain whilst calling into La Caruna on a sailing course from the Isle of White. I was amazed how green it was and quite like England with it's hedgerows. We all (8 of us) wanted to see Finister Lighthouse being salty seadogs so I can appreciate what you are all saying about the north.
> 
> Ok. Here's my list:
> 
> ...


----------



## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Chica said:


> It's my wish list Tally. If I was to move these are the things that I would want.


Amazing sailing course you went on!! Can't do much about the yacht, but if you're ever serious about thinking of moving up North, pm me and I'll let you have some specifics on a couple of locations here which could very well meet your critera.

Based on what we've read here on rental prices down your neck of the woods, we have a large number of apartments in several beachfront locations that were built just before the crisis and are now either being bought in bulk by speculators or being let at silly prices (I mean cheap) compared to the South. It wasn't always like this but apart from the unfortunate first time buyers, it looks like Galician owners are going to ride the storm because there's no way properties here have dropped anywhere like 30%. So, renting won't be the problem and you could pick up a serious bargain.

Tally.xxx


----------



## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Normatheexdiva said:


> Can just about do the internet connection. But only just...
> Galicia is like England. With extra strong England for added seasoning (nettles, normally) and some Scotland too and in the north, I think it can look a little like Scandinavia?
> But what do I know?
> I live in the middle. So no ferry ports too close.
> ...


Sounds good! I like the rent thing and the boats. S'pose we need to have a drive around again but that will need to be when my job is up and running again. But then again I really fancy going by train so I can take all the sights in.


----------



## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Normatheexdiva said:


> Can just about do the internet connection. But only just...
> Galicia is like England. With extra strong England for added seasoning (nettles, normally) and some Scotland too and in the north, I think it can look a little like Scandinavia?
> But what do I know?
> I live in the middle. So no ferry ports too close.
> ...


You should try the crema de orujo, Norma. Much nicer than Baileys!!! What about the guinda (good quality home made stuff) which my husband swears by. Also made from orujo but with a 90 proof cherry tapa thrown in!! I can just about manage it if it's mixed heavily with lemonade and ice, but then I'm a lightweight!!!

Hubby and I also love the ribeira sacra wine which people seem to dish out from 2litre coke and fanta bottles, having filled them up from a massive barrel!! He says it reminds him of the ribeiro red wine as it once was that would stain the wine tazas and go down so well with the local fare. Also funny to see is at the fiestas - especially when everyone's tucking into churrasco and a little man goes around filling everyone's plastic tumblers up with rough red from a watering can!!

That bread really soaks it up though.....love it!!

Tallulah.xx


----------



## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> Amazing sailing course you went on!! Can't do much about the yacht, but if you're ever serious about thinking of moving up North, pm me and I'll let you have some specifics on a couple of locations here which could very well meet your critera.
> 
> Based on what we've read here on rental prices down your neck of the woods, we have a large number of apartments in several beachfront locations that were built just before the crisis and are now either being bought in bulk by speculators or being let at silly prices (I mean cheap) compared to the South. It wasn't always like this but apart from the unfortunate first time buyers, it looks like Galician owners are going to ride the storm because there's no way properties here have dropped anywhere like 30%. So, renting won't be the problem and you could pick up a serious bargain.
> 
> Tally.xxx


Yes. The course was with some chaps who were doing their Ocean Masters. Mine was Day Skipper.

It's getting to sound better by the minute Tally. It is certainly out of the question for the next 6 months so I just need to ride out the hot summer:tongue:. Will let you know when we are ready if we decide to go for it.


----------



## scharlack (Nov 21, 2008)

Chica said:


> Yes scharlach. how are we expected to find our utopia unless we go out and try different countries. So, Spain is not on your ideal list. Are job prospects better here than in Brazil? Without children is the best time to go out and grab the world by the b..ls if you have the :freedom and finance to do that.
> 
> Will you try another country when you leave here?


Chica, as far as IT jobs go, Brazil offers more than Spain (in average) on salaries and benefits. However, we average more working hours than the Spanish. Brazil receives lots of clients from the USA from outsourcing companies for cost reduction purposes (Brazil is much cheaper). So, one needs to see what makes him/her happy as far as work goes.

The wife holds a permanent resident status in Canada. We are possibly going to Canada after the European summer. We would like to move to Toronto, but I already told her I won't live anywhere near the city centre for God's sake! We are also considering Vancouver as the winters are much milder there. :juggle:

Cheers!


----------



## scharlack (Nov 21, 2008)

SunnySpain said:


> Hey,
> 
> Interest viewpoint and considering you live in Madrid it does not surprise me one bit. The weather in Madrid is extreme, very cold in winter and very hot in summer
> 
> ...


Yeah Dave, you got the point. Barcelona seems to be a bit more difficult though as I don't speak Català (yet) 

I would truly consider moving down south if I ever had a job offer there. That would probably change my opinion on life in Spain. 

The wife and I are possibly going to end up in Canada. Although the winters are harsh it seems like a great country to raise kids (we are planning the 1st in 5yrs time!) and there is plenty of IT industry. We shall see if we like it! :canada:


----------



## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

scharlack said:


> Chica, as far as IT jobs go, Brazil offers more than Spain (in average) on salaries and benefits. However, we average more working hours than the Spanish. Brazil receives lots of clients from the USA from outsourcing companies for cost reduction purposes (Brazil is much cheaper). So, one needs to see what makes him/her happy as far as work goes.
> 
> The wife holds a permanent resident status in Canada. We are possibly going to Canada after the European summer. We would like to move to Toronto, but I already told her I won't live anywhere near the city centre for God's sake! We are also considering Vancouver as the winters are much milder there. :juggle:
> 
> Cheers!


It seems you have it all mapped out scharlack . don't like one place, move to another. It's good that your work is portable. I always fancied Canada when I was younger. You never hear bad press about the country. Why is that I wonder!? Is it because there is no crime etc there? So this is where you are thinking to start a family. I wish you all the best with your plans. Who knows, we all might be still posting on here but from different countries...lol. You will part of the Canadian forum. I might be on one of the others (Turkey. No specific forum as yet)....lol.


----------



## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

scharlack said:


> Yeah Dave, you got the point. Barcelona seems to be a bit more difficult though as I don't speak Català (yet)
> 
> I would truly consider moving down south if I ever had a job offer there. That would probably change my opinion on life in Spain.
> 
> The wife and I are possibly going to end up in Canada. Although the winters are harsh it seems like a great country to raise kids (we are planning the 1st in 5yrs time!) and there is plenty of IT industry. We shall see if we like it! :canada:



Good luck to you 

Canada is certainly clean and a decent country, but like you say the WINTER is extremely cold. Being from Brazil I would have thought it would be too cold.

It's a shame it seems you are leaving Spain, as I think you just chose the wrong
part of the country, although saying that if its the only place you could find work then its not like you had much choice in the matter.

All the best what ever you decide..

Dave


----------



## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

scharlack said:


> Hey,
> 
> I have no kids and would never have a kid raised in Madrid for what I have seen here ...


Am curious as to why you say that about raising kids in Madrid in particular. Do you mean because of the crime and other aspects of city life in general? Or is there something particular about Madrid that makes it a bad city to move to if you have kids? Just wondered... Have been thinking about moving somewhere else, away from the south!


----------



## SteveHall (Oct 17, 2008)

Well, thanks to Jojo for raising such an interesting post and to everybody for offering such honest and incisive answers. 

I knew what I was letting myself into when I came back to Spain in 2001 as I had lived here before. I can't say much has surprised me this time except for the sheer volume of expats who think that the grass is greener on the Spanish side - they have often not worked out how to paint it. 

Actually the bit about surprises is not quite true as I have really suffered this winter with the cold. Even though I have been no more than 300/400 meters from the Med on the Costa del Sol I have found this winter very unpleasant and the worst I have known. I am already thinking that I am not sure whether I can face another one. Ironicaly, last year I was in Sweden and never ever felt so cold as I did this year. I know it is all relative but I often felt it was warmer outside in Fuengirola than it was in the house in January/March. 

I may have to consider Tenerife this time around and as I can work from adsl/a laptop anywhere in the world yet another move would not be a big issue. I have been on the Costa del Sol for 6 months even though my home is still in Alicante. This has given me the opportunity to make new friends down here and these are the only real reason I stay here. I have never been so happy in Spain as I am now. This stay has proven to me that I prefer Spain to expatshire and (bluntly) Spaniards to Brits/Scandis. It has also proven to me that the pull of Spain now completely outdraws that of Sweden even though there is much I love there too. 

Yes, it seems that (eventually) I have found my resting point and that I'll only leave Spain in a box. To get to that point there have been hundreds of flights, thousands of hotel nights and tens of thousands of motorway miles. I have discarded India, Singapore and Scandinavia. 

Spain offers me everything - well at least almost everything. Is it Paradise? NO! Does Paradise exist? That's a moot point but after all the travel and all the countries I would say only in the individual's eye. What appeals to me, would have no import to others. What "lights my fire", turns others off so in no particular order. What makes me stay, could be enough to force others back to Barnsley or onwards to Brisbane. 

*Weather (except for above) 
*Outdoor life - pavement life.
*Café life - coffee. 
*Spanish history, culture, language/literature
*Ana Obregón, Natasha Verbeke (OK, she's Argentinian!) and Los Lunnis
*The value that the family is held in. The esteem that older folk are held in.
*The respect for the seasons, fiestas, holidays, puentes
*La Liga. In fact, all Spanish football 
*Fresh salad, quality fish at sensible prices. Chovi Ajonesa.
*The great Spanish cities of Madrid, Valencia, Barcelona, Granada
*Well.......thousands of other factors
....but without ANY DOUBT at all my NUMBER ONE....the Spanish Health Service.

The things I still have to turn my eyes to 
*Expats arriving with absolutely zero idea of the reality of expatshire. Arriving on your own with no real goal and no fixed plans is "adventure" with three teenagers it's rash and is prejudicing their future
*Almost zero employment on contract. It's frustrating when I see so many people going back and giving up on their dreams. Homework before they came would have "saved" many dreams, homes, families etc
*Domestic violence
*Bureaucracy, pettiness with the papeleo. 

Spain is home so very little surprises me nowadays - I know so little about the UK that I can't comment constructively and whilst I have no personal negativity towards the land that for nearly 50 years was my home, I do not like much which I hear or read. 

Yes, I am very happy indeed in Spain and fully intend to stay and enjoy the next stage of my life journey. As the Swedes say "Borta bra, hemma bäst" (It's great to be away, but it's best to be at home - for me Spain IS home. My hope always with forums such as this is that the members find what is best for them. If Jo and I as mods can help lead the discussions and the members are willing to contribute then hopefully people will at least get the information they need to make the right decisions. Good luck to all those who are still searching.


----------



## scharlack (Nov 21, 2008)

Caz.I said:


> Am curious as to why you say that about raising kids in Madrid in particular. Do you mean because of the crime and other aspects of city life in general? Or is there something particular about Madrid that makes it a bad city to move to if you have kids? Just wondered... Have been thinking about moving somewhere else, away from the south!


Yeah, I was mainly mentioning Madrid centre. The reason is essentially great exposure to tobacco/alcohol/drugs at very early stages in life.... and the access that the kids have to them.

The weather here is also very extreme. Doesn't affect me much really ... Cold and dry winter and I am still to see what summer is like, but I can antecipate I have already had to turn on the apartment A/C. It's getting hot! I think it's going to be hell during the summer! Time to plan summer vacation out of here 

What is it that you dislike in the south?

Cheers


----------



## Normatheexdiva (Jan 29, 2009)

Oh I like that.
A Cova Crema is fantastic.
I just had an unfortunate experience once, with queimada.....I actually couldn't move until midday the next day.
I'm off to make elderflower vodka today. Before it rains or whatever that dreadful weather will be at the weekend. 
Ribeira Sacra wine rocks.
I like the red Ribeiro one too, that one with the shellfish on the label.
Everyone except us has a patch of vines and makes their own wine. At Pesqueiras though, as you know it's potato country here!
I'd love to buy a still - they are so gorgeous.
xxx



Tallulah said:


> You should try the crema de orujo, Norma. Much nicer than Baileys!!! What about the guinda (good quality home made stuff) which my husband swears by. Also made from orujo but with a 90 proof cherry tapa thrown in!! I can just about manage it if it's mixed heavily with lemonade and ice, but then I'm a lightweight!!!
> 
> Hubby and I also love the ribeira sacra wine which people seem to dish out from 2litre coke and fanta bottles, having filled them up from a massive barrel!! He says it reminds him of the ribeiro red wine as it once was that would stain the wine tazas and go down so well with the local fare. Also funny to see is at the fiestas - especially when everyone's tucking into churrasco and a little man goes around filling everyone's plastic tumblers up with rough red from a watering can!!
> 
> ...


----------



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

owdoggy said:


> Just clocked this thread & thought it was all about life, the universe & everything (42) which is a bit too deep for me but you mean Spain! .............. right ............ I'm with you now.
> 
> 1) The coffee
> 2) The people (Spanish not brits)
> ...


OWDOGGY!! Isnt it strange how we all seem to mention not liking "the brits" when we talk about what we love about Spain ..... yet we are the Brits who live here too .... and I think Im a pretty ok person .. as I think the vast majority on here are too ..... so there must be some Brits in spain that we love just as much as the Spanish !!!


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Suenneil said:


> OWDOGGY!! Isnt it strange how we all seem to mention not liking "the brits" when we talk about what we love about Spain ..... yet we are the Brits who live here too .... and I think Im a pretty ok person .. as I think the vast majority on here are too ..... so there must be some Brits in spain that we love just as much as the Spanish !!!



Funny that isnt it! We all seem to have a bit of an aversion to Brits!!?? but here we are, all brits (well nearly all!), all liking to chat to each other on here and all nice people (well, nearly all lol)

I guess its those "other" brits we dont like, the loud-mouthed, stereotypical brits you hear and see coming out ot the "british bar", shouting and swearing and being... well typically british?????????????????????

Jo xxx


----------



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

jojo said:


> Funny that isnt it! We all seem to have a bit of an aversion to Brits!!?? but here we are, all brits (well nearly all!), all liking to chat to each other on here and all nice people (well, nearly all lol)
> 
> I guess its those "other" brits we dont like, the loud-mouthed, stereotypical brits you hear and see coming out ot the "british bar", shouting and swearing and being... well typically british?????????????????????
> 
> Jo xxx


I know ... I didnt like that type of Brit was I was in the UK either !!! maybe when you live in the UK you just accept you cant get away from it most of the time .... but if you come to live maybe you can find a "piece" of Spain where they dont exist .... but that cant be right ...... Ive always felt that we underestimate just how many "nice and good" people (Brits) there are out here ...... in fact anywhere! ...


----------



## owdoggy (Jul 23, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> OWDOGGY!! Isnt it strange how we all seem to mention not liking "the brits" when we talk about what we love about Spain ..... yet we are the Brits who live here too .... and I think Im a pretty ok person .. as I think the vast majority on here are too ..... so there must be some Brits in spain that we love just as much as the Spanish !!!


I've met some really canny brits over here ....... but I have to say they seem to be the minority and it's not just what they're like to me, it's the way they treat the Spanish which really winds me up.
Politeness costs nothing and even if they can't speak much Spanish you would have thought learning the words "hello, please, thankyou & goodbye" wouldn't be beyond their grasp, we are guests in someone else's country after all.



 you started me off now!


Doggy


----------



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

owdoggy said:


> I've met some really canny brits over here ....... but I have to say they seem to be the minority and it's not just what they're like to me, it's the way they treat the Spanish which really winds me up.
> Politeness costs nothing and even if they can't speak much Spanish you would have thought learning the words "hello, please, thankyou & goodbye" wouldn't be beyond their grasp, we are guests in someone else's country after all.
> 
> 
> ...


Chilll Doggy .... its Friday, its sunny, the forecast for the weekend is good .... and you are surrounded by lovely Brits on here!!! lol :behindsofa:


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Suenneil said:


> I know ... I didnt like that type of Brit was I was in the UK either !!! maybe when you live in the UK you just accept you cant get away from it most of the time .... but if you come to live maybe you can find a "piece" of Spain where they dont exist .... but that cant be right ...... Ive always felt that we underestimate just how many "nice and good" people (Brits) there are out here ...... in fact anywhere! ...


I was chatting to an english chap the other day, a liverpudlian and he was saying how he hated the british, shaven headed, tattooed, earringed, pot bellied northerners wearing football shirts... He was a really lovely chap, my daughters friends dad, well educated, polite, funny.. BUT.... he was all those things he was moaning about!!!!!!  I looked him up and down and we both laughed!! He said he was infiltrating them from the inside!!

My point is that you cant always judge a book by its cover, some are hideous, some are full of "the brown stuff" and some are lazy good for nothings who came over here looking for a free ride.. but not all, and hey, we're all lovely on here arent we.... even Xtreme has some endearing qualities?????!!

Jo xxx


----------



## SteveBarbosa (Mar 17, 2009)

jojo said:


> Funny that isnt it! We all seem to have a bit of an aversion to Brits!!?? but here we are, all brits (well nearly all!), all liking to chat to each other on here and all nice people (well, nearly all lol)
> 
> *I guess its those "other" brits we dont like, the loud-mouthed, stereotypical brits you hear and see coming out ot the "british bar", shouting and swearing and being... well typically british?????????????????????*
> 
> Jo xxx


But do those type of brits really exist or is it not just a case of when we see one its a rare occurrence that we find it profoundly more distasteful? Maybe I'm being too kind on us brits and showing some naivety

I've not been to the 'little britain' parts of spain so I wouldn't know, but my folks used to live in a place called Estepa near Antequera Andalus. and the brits they knew were such nice people. Very friendly and always looking out for each other. Its such a shame that they had to come back to the UK else I would have had a holiday home to go to ;-)


----------



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

jojo said:


> I was chatting to an english chap the other day, a liverpudlian and he was saying how he hated the british, shaven headed, tattooed, earringed, pot bellied northerners wearing football shirts... He was a really lovely chap, my daughters friends dad, well educated, polite, funny.. BUT.... he was all those things he was moaning about!!!!!!  I looked him up and down and we both laughed!! He said he was infiltrating them from the inside!!
> 
> My point is that you cant always judge a book by its cover, some are hideous, some are full of "the brown stuff" and some are lazy good for nothings who came over here looking for a free ride.. but not all, and hey, we're all lovely on here arent we.... even Xtreme has some endearing qualities?????!!
> 
> Jo xxx


Totally agree Jo - I try not to judge in advance as much as I can (maybe its my Probation background??) anyway - I just think we should be cautious about new people but work hard at not being too cynical .... because if we judge all the Brits in the same way we would miss out on so many opportunities to make new friends etc ... which would be a shame.

And again yes ... Im sure even Xtreme has some endearing qualities .... he may only wear plain boxers for example rather than cartoony ones with Donkeys on them .... who knows !!!!????!!!who cares !!!???!?!? :clap2::clap2::clap2:


----------



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

SteveBarbosa said:


> But do those type of brits really exist or is it not just a case of when we see one its a rare occurrence that we find it profoundly more distasteful? Maybe I'm being too kind on us brits and showing some naivety
> 
> I've not been to the 'little britain' parts of spain so I wouldn't know, but my folks used to live in a place called Estepa near Antequera Andalus. and the brits they knew were such nice people. Very friendly and always looking out for each other. Its such a shame that they had to come back to the UK else I would have had a holiday home to go to ;-)


Steve ... I think you do have a point and Ive always felt similar to you about this - because we are a smaller group of people in another Country - we tend to spot each other a mile off!! and if those we do spot are unfortunately the drunken, loud, nasty variety ... then it gives a bad impression !

You sound ok, I think Im ok, Jo, Tally, Chica, Steve, Xtreme,Doggy, Sunny etc etc etc ALL SOUND GOOD to me .... so there a sure to be more of us out there!


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

scharlack said:


> Yeah, I was mainly mentioning Madrid centre. The reason is essentially great exposure to tobacco/alcohol/drugs at very early stages in life.... and the access that the kids have to them.
> 
> The weather here is also very extreme. Doesn't affect me much really ... Cold and dry winter and I am still to see what summer is like, but I can antecipate I have already had to turn on the apartment A/C. It's getting hot! I think it's going to be hell during the summer! Time to plan summer vacation out of here
> 
> ...


I'm surprised that Madrid is mentioned in such a negative way by people who have obviously travelled and therefore know other cities. 
Madrid city can be a great place to live, and has beautiful areas just as Paris, London, Barcelona and thousands of other places that I've never been to have. The cultural offer is huge and expanding. Of course there are drugs. There are beggars, drop outs, wierdos etc. Everything that a big city has. But I know plenty of people who have brought up kids in Madrid and the kids are well balanced and no more likely to throw their lives away on drugs than a country bumpkin.
Not that I don't agree that bringing up children in a big city isn't fraught with problems, but I don't think it's Madrid that the problem, it's tightly packed urbanism that's the problem in my opinion.
Yes, I moved out of Madrid when I was pregnant, but not because it was Madrid; it was a city.
PS. The weather in Madrid is extreme for SPAIN, but you can't say it's harder than Newcastle, Yorkshire, Cork etc, etc, Can you??


----------



## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Chilll Doggy .... its Friday, its sunny, the forecast for the weekend is good .... and you are surrounded by lovely Brits on here!!! lol :behindsofa:


There aren't a great deal of Brit expats where I am - but i seem to be able to spot them a mile off in the local supermarket, for example. Dunno what it is - they're not typically British looking maybe, but it's almost a sixth sense - like a Brit radar that goes off!!! I welcome the chance to speak English when I can - that's why I'm on here I guess!! And whenever someone hears us speaking English - they gravitate towards us for a little chat as well....it's really nice having a quick chat with people who seem to become more open and friendly because they're in another country. I think it's bringing out the best of us in these communities as well - haven't you noticed how people are really looking out for each other on here and where you live as well??


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I will say one thing that I have most definately found where I live and its a "spoken" rule around here... Never trust a brit tradesman!! Sorry if thats unPC or unkind. But there are a lot of Brits here that "feed" off other brits, especially the new arrivals. They charge over the odds and have dubious qualifications to say the least. We were warned when we first came here, but, being niave, I fell into the trap twice!

Jo xxx

I'm gonna get into trouble for saying that arent I


----------



## anles (Feb 11, 2009)

I agree totally with what Tallulah says. It's lovely to have the chance to speak English and the few British people I know around here are lovely; most of us know each other and I think we look out for each other too. 
The people here are very friendly and welcoming and most people who come here behave accordingly. You tend to give back what you get out, don't you? 
Maybe I'm just lucky but having other British people around has enriched my life. We choose our friends for who they are not for their nationality. The same as we join a forum, because we like the people we "see" on there.


----------



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

anles said:


> I agree totally with what Tallulah says. It's lovely to have the chance to speak English and the few British people I know around here are lovely; most of us know each other and I think we look out for each other too.
> The people here are very friendly and welcoming and most people who come here behave accordingly. You tend to give back what you get out, don't you?
> Maybe I'm just lucky but having other British people around has enriched my life. We choose our friends for who they are not for their nationality. The same as we join a forum, because we like the people we "see" on there.


Anles, I completely agree with you and Tally ..... I suppose who you meet and what "type" of person you meet depends on where you live, what you do socially, and where you socialise ..... Ive said this before - but I think me and my OH are pretty ordinary and almost dull! lol ... we dont "do" Brit bars and clubs etc .. so perhaps we are pretty sheltered from certain types of people.
I value all my friendships here - irrespective of nationality - but have to admit to gaining some comfort from having some good Brit friends! .. although the numbers of friends are much smaller than they were in the UK - they are close and strong friendships ... maybe its "sticking together" when things get difficult that helps to cement that 

Sadly one couple who are probably our best friends here are moving to Egypt in July (she is a Science teacher and moving for a job at a big international school there) .... they have struggled like we all have recently and they also have 2 youngish children so they feel the need to try something else for a couple of years ... I´´ll miss them enormously!

I dont usually use forums for personal stuff (I use them a lot for work) .. but I find this one gives me a great deal ..... and although they are only "cyber" friendships - its good to talk to familiar people over a period of time - and get to know people more and more ... and share good and bad stuff! plus I always have a laugh at some point during the day when reading the posts !

:wave:


----------



## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> lol ... we have lived in Coin (2+ years) Elviria, San Pedo and now Estepona ... all in the South and all bloody cold in winter no matter what the brochures tell you !!! I have more fleeces and wooly socks on here between October and April than I ever did in Derbyshire! :lol:


Hi Sue,

Whereabouts in Derbyshire did you live? I live an eight minutes drive from the main entrance to Chatsworth Park. And there is my dilemma, I love the Peak District National Park, Bakewell and the surrounding villages so much that it would take something very special in Spain for me to leave them forever. My wife however would leave for a life on the Benissa coast without giving it a second thought.

The compromise would be home and away, however we could end up buying something in Spain that wouldn't suit us if we decided to make the move permanent, and then find that it was hard to sell. We usually stay in a friends villa that he would dearly like to sell us, its a 4 bed, 3 bath with gas fired central heating, hot and cold air con, pool etc. If we were tempted I would want to have a wood burner in the lounge, having read you guys posts on the cold winters.

We were there a couple of years ago during the horrendous storms and floods, so have seen what it is like at its worst. We wouldn't be looking for work or wanting to live the high life. We would only have the one son and his partner to consider, free holidays would no doubt tempt them as it would some of our friends.

So no pre-conceived expectations, it will be hot in the summer and could turn cold in the winter, but all in all it will be warmer and dryer than the UK. We might even make some new friends, but if not, so be it. I can walk on a beach for hours by myself, watching the sea birds and stopping to chat to anyone who is like minded.

So if the pound strengthens against the euro and my mate comes up with a realistic price we might just be joining you.


----------



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

crookesey said:


> Hi Sue,
> 
> Whereabouts in Derbyshire did you live? I live an eight minutes drive from the main entrance to Chatsworth Park. And there is my dilemma, I love the Peak District National Park, Bakewell and the surrounding villages so much that it would take something very special in Spain for me to leave them forever. My wife however would leave for a life on the Benissa coast without giving it a second thought.
> 
> ...


Hi Crooksey

We lived in a small village Church Broughton ..... sort of on the border Derbyshire / Staffordshire ? For many years I lived just outside Sheffield so visited Chatsworth loads of times ... my kids grazed their knees many a time on the adventure park in the grounds there! plus we had loads of picnics with the sheep too ! ....

Given what you have written I think Spain may very well suit you .... and the weather is definitely more reliable, and you already know about the winters because Jo and I mention the cold a lot! so you wuoldnt get any real surprises on that front.

At the end of the day we are all different arent we ? I do enjoy it here - but there are some things you just cant forget about the UK that are so lovely .... the autumn (colours etc)....lots and lots of green grass and big trees, even sheep in fields ! May Day Village celebrations ..... pub beer gardens in summer .... it sounds like I have a rose tinted view of the UK, but I dont .... these are genuine things I miss but I know they only make up a tiny percentage of what its like over there most of the time.

Im sure you would make some friends .... admitedly it does seem harder over here but then you have a smaller pool of people to choose from particularly if you dont speak Spanish ..... but the friends you do make tend to be good ones.

If you have the option of a home here ... and one in the UK .. then thats a real bonus ! ... because making a complete move may work out - it may not - at least having something in the UK gives you a get out should you need one. True properties can take ages to sell here - so if you wanted to move quickly you could be stuck! I know that renting is generally a big thing in the UK - and it took me some getting used to - but we rent and have done for 5 years - without it we would be in a right pickle! renting has given us lots of options particularly with my job situation .... so its been the best thing for us in the long run.

Best of luck whatever you choose to do ...... lots of people on here will be sure to give you their opinion and advice if you ask for it.

Sue


----------



## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

A brief summary of our experience of life in Spain.

We love the north of Spain for its natural beauty and wonderful food, but our experience was that most Spaniards are very closed and somewhat unfriendly
with the exception of a very select group of people we can call friends and the majority of the people we met in Galicia.

Our experience of expats has not been good either, but we live in hope :lol:


After several years in the north we decided to venture south and have been living near to the costa for a short time. So far we have been delighted with the weather and have visited some lovely places, however the only people we have become friends with are the owners of the property we are renting.

It's been quite a shock to the system seeing so many expats living locally and although I am hoping to meet some nice one's; it's not happened yet :lol:

My OH is much happier now, largely due to the weather it must be said, but whether we will stay south or move back to the north much depends on what happens in the next 11 months.

Do I reget moving to Spain ? Not one iota.

Does Utopia exist ? I very much doubt it :lol:

Oh and finally, if we do end up moving back to the north it will almost certainly be a straight choice between Catalunya or Galicia, probably the latter...


Dave


----------



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

SunnySpain said:


> A brief summary of our experience of life in Spain.
> 
> We love the north of Spain for its natural beauty and wonderful food, but our experience was that most Spaniards are very closed and somewhat unfriendly
> with the exception of a very select group of people we can call friends and the majority of the people we met in Galicia.
> ...



Hi Dave

Ive been curious to ask other people (expats) .... because it seems that the majority of us find it harder to make close friends here, expat or Spanish, and if not hard then the number of friends generally seems to be lower than the number we had in the UK ... have you found that you rely more and more on your partners ? 

For example, in the UK if hubby watching footy on sky in the evening I would call a girlfriend and go round, share a bottle of wine, put the World to rights and offload anything that may be bothering me at the time - here because although I have friends non of them are really as close as my uk friends were - my hubby tends to get it all, the good, the bad and the ugly! lol ..... this is good for some people as it brings them closer together .. but for others I think it may put a strain on the relationship ..... we seem to know a lot of expat couples who have split up since being here ... more than the average statistic.


----------



## SunnySpain (Jul 30, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> Hi Dave
> 
> Ive been curious to ask other people (expats) .... because it seems that the majority of us find it harder to make close friends here, expat or Spanish, and if not hard then the number of friends generally seems to be lower than the number we had in the UK ... have you found that you rely more and more on your partners ?
> 
> For example, in the UK if hubby watching footy on sky in the evening I would call a girlfriend and go round, share a bottle of wine, put the World to rights and offload anything that may be bothering me at the time - here because although I have friends non of them are really as close as my uk friends were - my hubby tends to get it all, the good, the bad and the ugly! lol ..... this is good for some people as it brings them closer together .. but for others I think it may put a strain on the relationship ..... we seem to know a lot of expat couples who have split up since being here ... more than the average statistic.



Hi Sue,

Living here can certainly be a very lonely experience thats for sure. My OH is known to get very upset by her lack of friends in Spain. I, on the other hand just find it incredibly frustrating and although I can now speak a reasonable level of Spanish, its still very difficult to make any real friends.

My best friend in Spain lives in Cantabria and is Spanish, but I think our friendship came about because he is very keen to learn English. Both he and his partner were quite upset we were moving south. But saying that we were already a good two hours drive from them in the north.

My OH is quite shy and finds it a real challenge starting conversation with anyone, but when she has done so, she has quite often been let down.

We did meet a nice couple in Asturias who are in a similar position, in that they also have a baby. They were in fact our neighbours and were also upset at us leaving, but we are keeping in touch with all of these people (all 2 couples :lol

So in answer to your question, YES we find that life in Spain is very much a closed society and that you need your partner to also be your best friend.

Dave


----------



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

SunnySpain said:


> Hi Sue,
> 
> Living here can certainly be a very lonely experience thats for sure. My OH is known to get very upset by her lack of friends in Spain. I, on the other hand just find it incredibly frustrating and although I can now speak a reasonable level of Spanish, its still very difficult to make any real friends.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that Dave ... I do sympathise with your wife very much - I find myself getting upset on occasion for the same reasons as she does - although Im not shy I have to say! I dont think Im "picky" but I dont want to make friends with anyone and everyone just to have friends if that makes sense .... but finding likeminded people who you feel comfortable with is difficult.

And I certianly agree with you on your partner being your best friend ... that certainly applies to us ..... you dont have a choice really! lol :lol:


----------



## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm surprised that Madrid is mentioned in such a negative way by people who have obviously travelled and therefore know other cities.
> Madrid city can be a great place to live, and has beautiful areas just as Paris, London, Barcelona and thousands of other places that I've never been to have. The cultural offer is huge and expanding. Of course there are drugs. There are beggars, drop outs, wierdos etc. Everything that a big city has. But I know plenty of people who have brought up kids in Madrid and the kids are well balanced and no more likely to throw their lives away on drugs than a country bumpkin.
> Not that I don't agree that bringing up children in a big city isn't fraught with problems, but I don't think it's Madrid that the problem, it's tightly packed urbanism that's the problem in my opinion.
> Yes, I moved out of Madrid when I was pregnant, but not because it was Madrid; it was a city.
> PS. The weather in Madrid is extreme for SPAIN, but you can't say it's harder than Newcastle, Yorkshire, Cork etc, etc, Can you??


Yes Pesky Wesky, that's what I thought and why I asked if he meant Madrid in particular. I lived in London for years and I wouldnt consider bringing kids up in the centre there either because of city life. Down here on the Costa del Sol I think drugs are pretty rife and unfortunately, I dont think its possible to get away from them completely, unless you live in rural China or the like. 

When I said the south in an earlier post, I really meant the Costas. There seems to be a lot of expats on the Costas who have drink or drug or other addictive problems and the general holiday/party atmosphere doesnt help. Its a great place to live in a lot of ways and sure, you can live among the Spanish without venturing into expatshire but I dont think its a great place to bring up kids here either. I have expat and Spanish friends with teenage children and they are inevitably influenced by the availability of drugs, 24 hour party lifestyle, and the live for today not tomorrow mentality. Plus I think the limited career opportunities in a holiday resort means there are lower expectations (even in the days when there were jobs LOL ) in what you can achieve. 

I came to Spain originally to learn some Spanish, experience life in a different country/ culture before going on to travel and work in South America. As I was on my own I wasnt brave enough to go straight there, so as I had family here and had partner here, was an easy-ish choice. After having son here I decided to stay. Dont regret it at all, but not an easy choice and life can be struggle here as much as anywhere. Tho it's definitely made me stronger for it. :boxing:
Like most people, I think:
*weather is big bonus, even tho the winters _are_ cold without decent heating
*the coffee is great
*most Spanish people are friendly (though have nice neighbours of all nationalities)
*the bureaucracy is insane - no thats not a reason to stay
*in general, Spain is a good place to bring up children and definitely more child friendly
*life is never dull here

That said, I do think good friends are difficult to make here, and a lot of people of various nationalities have said to me that on the Costas, Malaga province, especially, it is more difficult, perhaps partly because of the transient population. Also some Spanish acquaintances have a negative view of Andalucia, particularly in terms of the level of education, and a lack of a global outlook. ( But this was a very poor, rural area, I understand, until tourism arrived.) Anyway, I would say most of the ordinary people here are lovely.
Like, I think, Steve said, everyone is different, and depends what you are looking for. I am thinking of moving too, for work, amongst other things, to somewhere where the main industry is not tourism but still has an international feel. Visited Valencia and it is a beautiful place but had bad experience there which put me off. Also thinking of Granada, but scared about the extreme weather, though I think in the city they may even have "real" heating. :clap2:


----------



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> Yes Pesky Wesky, that's what I thought and why I asked if he meant Madrid in particular. I lived in London for years and I wouldnt consider bringing kids up in the centre there either because of city life. Down here on the Costa del Sol I think drugs are pretty rife and unfortunately, I dont think its possible to get away from them completely, unless you live in rural China or the like.
> 
> When I said the south in an earlier post, I really meant the Costas. There seems to be a lot of expats on the Costas who have drink or drug or other addictive problems and the general holiday/party atmosphere doesnt help. Its a great place to live in a lot of ways and sure, you can live among the Spanish without venturing into expatshire but I dont think its a great place to bring up kids here either. I have expat and Spanish friends with teenage children and they are inevitably influenced by the availability of drugs, 24 hour party lifestyle, and the live for today not tomorrow mentality. Plus I think the limited career opportunities in a holiday resort means there are lower expectations (even in the days when there were jobs LOL ) in what you can achieve.
> 
> ...


Hi Caz

Im reading all these posts today and amazed at how similar our thoughts and feelings are on this topic - particularly the friends issue.
Curious to see how you get on researching any part of spain where the work is less tourist / property related ..... if you come up with any potential areas let me know! We honeymooned in Granada and its a lovely place - but dont think I would want to live there. Its difficult isnt it because to get the Spanish way of life for most things you then have to live where the jobs prospects for expats are much more limited - and unfortunately I do need to keep working for the foreseable future ...
Luckily my kids are at Uni / working in the UK and independent of me to that extent (I do really miss them though) - so I dont have the worries of where to live to bring up kids here - having said that it matters not a jot really because I just worry about what they are doing in the UK instead ... as I did when they were growing up there! ... :wave:


----------



## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Caz.I said:


> Also thinking of Granada, but scared about the extreme weather,


.....t'aint no big thing.....


----------



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

XTreme said:


> .....t'aint no big thing.....


Yes ... we know its no big thing Xtreme ... but what about the weather !!!! :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

*friends*

Just to say I agree with what Suenneil said
Im sure you would make some friends .... admitedly it does seem harder over here but then you have a smaller pool of people to choose from particularly if you dont speak Spanish ..... but the friends you do make tend to be good ones.


----------



## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

XTreme said:


> .....t'aint no big thing.....


You see, this is why sometimes its best to listen to your fears!


----------



## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Yes ... we know its no big thing Xtreme ... but what about the weather !!!! :lol::lol::lol:


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

Sue,

My office is slap bang in the middle of Sheffield City Centre, the place is full of beggars, Big Issue sales people, chavs/chavetes with abundances of kids and big fat unemployed scroats wondering about aimlessly. Half of the shops are bordered up, that is if they haven't been demolished to house a new development that will never happen.

Our holier than thou government, that has almost taxed us to extinction, has been found to be on the take, and can't see any wrong in it. Every time I switch on the news its knifings, shootings and murders of every description. I think that I saw a poiceman the other day, but he might have just been a Community Support Officer, they look the same from a distance.

We have had our home damaged from a failed bulgary, my car was stolen from our drive, we now live a Fort Knox existance. A local girl, well known to my son, was kicked to death in a car park, and one of the guys that my son used to play football with decided to strangle his girlfriend whist he was high on drugs, he's now serving life. Sue, we live in a leafy suberb bordering the Peak District National Park, not on a sink council estate, what the hell is going on?

So you guys, please feel free to ask why we would like to move to the Benissa coast.


----------



## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

Talking of friends here, how many REAL friends do we have. I can count on one hand the real friends I have and apart from one, the relationships have grown over many years. When I say real friends I mean accept them, warts an' all. It doesn't matter what they do you will still be by their side. Although I know a lot of acquaintances here I can truely say I have only 1 real friend that I would stand by thick and thin. I have always been a gregarious type of person but I have found that I have become much more choosy as I have got older. Maybe that's part of it... getting older!!! Becoming more cynical along the way. Maybe it's the batterings we've obtained thru' life. I am sure for none of us it has been a bed of roses. 

Just a few possibilities?!?"


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I have what I consider one really good friend, we went through so much together, good, bad and very sad times. Eventually we've both climbed out of our turbulent lives, both re-married and she then broke my heart and moved to France ... well I forgave her and after visiting her a few times, I decided I wanted the "good life" too. Anyway, we ended up in Spain, but we're still best friends and chat and visit each other often.

I have other friends - lots and I love them all for different reasons and I keep in touch with them on facebook, phone, e-mail, visits... But they're all in the UK

In Spain I have made one really good friend, we seemed to "click" from the moment we met and she lives just up the road, sadly she's about to return to the UK and I'm gonna be gutted, altho I'm very gregarious so I have other good friends in Spain and I enjoy meeting new people so hopefully I wont be lonely. I think I tend to be friends with everyone and then as I find out more about them and get to know them better and they me, I feel more at ease with them. Cos I am actually incredibly shy!

I like the people I've "met" on here too! I'm sure that if we were to all meet for real we'd probably have a great laugh and become proper friends. I have met Stevehall a few times now and I would count him as a good friend, he's been really sweet and helpful (I have to say that in case he reads this!!!)

Jo xxx


----------



## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Suenneil said:


> Yes ... we know its no big thing Xtreme ... but what about the weather !!!! :lol::lol::lol:


It's getting like a Carry On film in here you know!

Jo is the Barbara Windsor, I'm the Sid James, and Steve has to be the Kenneth Williams character!


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

XTreme said:


> It's getting like a Carry On film in here you know!
> 
> Jo is the Barbara Windsor, I'm the Sid James, and Steve has to be the Kenneth Williams character!


Steve'll not be happy with that Xtreme (altho hmmm ?????), and I'm less "east end" and much taller that Babs, I can think of worse likenesses !!. I'd have put you down more as a "Bernard Bresslaw" type character!!!!

 I'm going 

Jo xxxx


----------



## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

jojo said:


> Steve'll not be happy with that Xtreme (altho hmmm ?????), and I'm less "east end" and much taller that Babs, I can think of worse likenesses !!. I'd have put you down more as a "Bernard Bresslaw" type character!!!!
> 
> I'm going
> 
> Jo xxxx


I'm not tall enough for a Bernard Breslaw character Jo....I thought the lecherous Sid James badboy persona would fit me better.
Steve's definitely a Kenneth Williams though. Or possibly a Charles Hawtry!


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

XTreme said:


> I'm not tall enough for a Bernard Breslaw character Jo....I thought the lecherous Sid James badboy persona would fit me better.
> Steve's definitely a Kenneth Williams though. Or possibly a Charles Hawtry!


(sssshhhh, but I thought of charles hawtry too lol)

Ok, you can be Sid hun and I'll be babs!!! 

jo xxx


----------



## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

jojo said:


> (sssshhhh, but I thought of charles hawtry too lol)
> 
> Ok, you can be Sid hun and I'll be babs!!!
> 
> jo xxx


OK.....I'll make it my life's ambition to get in your pants Jo! 

And the rest of you Chicas can form a queue for me!

Steve....get out of the bloody queue!


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

XTreme said:


> OK.....I'll make it my life's ambition to get in your pants Jo!
> 
> And the rest of you Chicas can form a queue for me!
> 
> Steve....get out of the bloody queue!


Poor old Sid never did get it on with Babs tho did he, they werent allowed to do anything other than inuendo in the olden days!!!! 

Inspite of "everything" didnt Charles Hawtry always end up with Hatti Jaques??? 

Jo xxx


----------



## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

XTreme said:


> OK.....I'll make it my life's ambition to get in your pants Jo!
> 
> And the rest of you Chicas can form a queue for me!
> 
> Steve....get out of the bloody queue!


Jeez, thats what you said to that bloke on the other forum.


----------



## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

I've put on weight (not that much tho'...lol) since I stopped smoking so I don't mind being Hatti Jaques.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Chica said:


> I've put on weight (not that much tho'...lol) since I stopped smoking so I don't mind being Hatti Jaques.


You're not as big as she was and you're not as fierce either! I cant think of anyone in the carry ons you could be???!!! Funnily enough, 6 years ago I was not far off Hattis size, I lost over six stone in weight. So I coulda been her quite easily and I was fierce....GGGGGRRRRR!

Jo xxx


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

........ talk about going off topic LOL

Jo xx


----------



## Chica (Mar 23, 2009)

jojo said:


> You're not as big as she was and you're not as fierce either! I cant think of anyone in the carry ons you could be???!!! Funnily enough, 6 years ago I was not far off Hattis size, I lost over six stone in weight. So I coulda been her quite easily and I was fierce....GGGGGRRRRR!
> 
> Jo xxx


Aaaaaahhh. You say such nice thing Jo :angel:


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Stravinsky said:


> Jeez, thats what you said to that bloke on the other forum.


He pretends to be such a tart!! :eyebrows:

Jo xxx


----------



## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Been thinking and it's fate really. Whole load of things came together magically, rather than by any design. So yes, I think that's what it is.


----------



## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Tallulah said:


> Been thinking and it's fate really. Whole load of things came together magically, rather than by any design. So yes, I think that's what it is.



Your other half is Spanish tho isnt he?

Jo xxx


----------



## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

jojo said:


> Your other half is Spanish tho isnt he?
> 
> Jo xxx



Yes he is. Perhaps needs expanding upon - I just meant that it was wierd how it all came together at exactly the right time and we jumped - almost as if we were supposed to. Firstly it was a toss up between France and Spain and under given circumstances, at that point in our lives, and secondly yeah, he's Spanish but was taken to UK when he was 8 and returned here at almost 50 - so passports aside, he's really way more English than Spanish! 

Interesting paradox to the many posts here on the forum - he's got his parents to thank for keeping him speaking Spanish and Gallego - and had several "Spanish" friends in the UK who refused to speak in Spanish to their parents, their parents didn't kick back and in later life they speak very poor "pidgeon" Spanish. Clearly this is way more embarrassing for them when they come here on holiday than any other visitor or Expat!!!

Tally.xxx


----------



## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> Interesting paradox to the many posts here on the forum - he's got his parents to thank for keeping him speaking Spanish and Gallego - and had several "Spanish" friends in the UK who refused to speak in Spanish to their parents, their parents didn't kick back and in later life they speak very poor "pidgeon" Spanish. Clearly this is way more embarrassing for them when they come here on holiday than any other visitor or Expat!!!
> 
> Tally.xxx


Yes, and I know of people brought up in Spain who are now in their 40s and who were either born in the UK or had British parents or grandparents and they either cant speak English at all or struggle to now. I must admit I am very anxious about this happening to my son as he doesnt speak hardly any English and doesnt really want to either. And his English speaking friends usually speak to him in Spanish because he does. (Which is better for them but not for him.) His paeditrician and another doctor keep telling me, dont talk to him in Spanish at all!


----------



## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> Yes, and I know of people brought up in Spain who are now in their 40s and who were either born in the UK or had British parents or grandparents and they either cant speak English at all or struggle to now. I must admit I am very anxious about this happening to my son as he doesnt speak hardly any English and doesnt really want to either. And his English speaking friends usually speak to him in Spanish because he does. (Which is better for them but not for him.) His paeditrician and another doctor keep telling me, dont talk to him in Spanish at all!


It's a real concern and I find myself having to remind my three to speak in English now....it's great they've adapted so well and are fluent, but I can't help looking to the future and thinking, oh my god, I could have grandkids that can't speak English!! Luckily my parents come over a lot and they still watch tv programmes in English.... but there's still that question of the future when they're not around anymore. You just can't get around the peer pressure fact and the language spoken in the country you're in. Keep trying though. Does he have any other family members that speak to him in English??

Tally.xx


----------



## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> It's a real concern and I find myself having to remind my three to speak in English now....it's great they've adapted so well and are fluent, but I can't help looking to the future and thinking, oh my god, I could have grandkids that can't speak English!! Luckily my parents come over a lot and they still watch tv programmes in English.... but there's still that question of the future when they're not around anymore. You just can't get around the peer pressure fact and the language spoken in the country you're in. Keep trying though. Does he have any other family members that speak to him in English??
> 
> Tally.xx


My brother who is here does and sometimes his cousins do, though they are native Spanish speakers but now go to an English speaking school (and speak really well). But he is kind of outnumbered since his father, grandmother, his other uncle and two aunts speak Spanish. Still my father comes out quite a lot and speaks English to him, unless he wants to practise his Spanish! I think in the future I am going to have to take him to English summer camps in the UK or something. He usually watches DVDs in English but listening is not a problem as he understands everything, he just doesnt want to speak it!


----------



## scharlack (Nov 21, 2008)

All in all I think once we leave our countries all we know is that we know nothing... even though we pray and hope for the best! 

:amen:

Things like this forum will keep us up and give us a ball part figure on how life treats everyone.

Have a great weekend folks... shouldn't we all?


----------



## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> My brother who is here does and sometimes his cousins do, though they are native Spanish speakers but now go to an English speaking school (and speak really well). But he is kind of outnumbered since his father, grandmother, his other uncle and two aunts speak Spanish. Still my father comes out quite a lot and speaks English to him, unless he wants to practise his Spanish! I think in the future I am going to have to take him to English summer camps in the UK or something. He usually watches DVDs in English but listening is not a problem as he understands everything, he just doesnt want to speak it!


Hopefully what will save his English is you persevering with it at home. I know it's really hard - I speak a mixture sometimes, but mainly in English to our's. The rapidness of them switching from one language to another is amazing. It's really what's spoken at home which will have the most influence, I think. If you keep speaking to him in English - even if at first he prefers to reply in Spanish - it will remain with him and in later years he'll be glad of it. My husband's cousins returned from the UK to Spain as youngsters, and they have never lost it even though their parents spoke Spanish at home. I think the trick with them was having friends in England who visited occasionally and an interest in all things English eg films and particularly music. What's really intriguing for me, with bilingual children is no trace of an accent. We've been told by people in the know that to them, it's one big language and the barriers grown ups have of different languages do not exist. It's just additional vocabulary and accents. When they speak Spanish, they sound Spanish. When they speak English, they sound English. No trace of an accent.

My hubby is biding his time to get out of them very gently what they dream in...when they reply "Spanish", we'll start worrying about them losing their English, but I think we're a way off that for now.

Tallulah.xx


----------



## Xose (Dec 10, 2008)

scharlack said:


> All in all I think once we leave our countries all we know is that we know nothing... even though we pray and hope for the best!
> 
> :amen:
> 
> ...



We know we can always return... chr(13) 

We probably never will, but it's a huge cushion when days are a beach!

Have a good one.

Xose


----------

