# Historical number plates - is there a catch?



## m2m2012 (Oct 29, 2019)

Have a question about historical number plates for vintage cars in Spain.

Are there any restrictions or special rules that come with these plates on a car from the 1930s? 

For example, can you use the car as a daily driver to drive to work, go to the supermarket, etc.? Are you limited to how many kms you can drive per year? Do you need to be a member of a classic car club?

A website I came across mentioned their are restrictions on cars made prior to the 1940s...is this true? If so what are they?

Basically, is there any disadvantage to having these plates as opposed to normal Spanish number plates? Thanks.


----------



## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

The disadvantage is the cost of getting them!!

The law changed earlier this year which makes it a bit more difficult than before.

There is too much detail to go into here, but you will need someone to certify that the car is exactly as it came out of the factory. Any modification and it cannot be considered historic (at least strictly speaking, but I do know of motorbikes with 6V to 12V conversions on historic plates, but that was prior to the change in rules).

You should think in the region of 800€ - 1000€ to complete the process.

You are not limited by the state to the kms you can drive on the plates, but you probably would be by the insurance company. Same as for the type of use.

There is a legal "risk" to having historic plates in that theoretically the vehicle is recognised as of historic interest and is therefore easier for the government to requisition it, but of course this never happens.


----------



## Williams2 (Sep 15, 2013)

Overandout said:


> The disadvantage is the cost of getting them!!
> 
> The law changed earlier this year which makes it a bit more difficult than before.
> 
> ...


That's interesting particularly as I'm an admirer of vintage or is the correct term 'classic cars' ? that I encounter
on occasions, travelling from Britain to Spain or France & back again on the car deck of Brittany Ferries.

Tell me can a British enthusiast ( moving to Spain ) take his british RHD 'classic car' with him and matriculate it
with the Spanish authorities, together with retaining the original British number plate or would the 
number plate have to be sacrificed and replaced with a Spanish one.

Or maybe there's a market for vintage Spanish number plates that would relate to the time the classic car
was manufactured and sold; that the enthusiast could quite legally buy and use as his or her new
Spanish number plate in place of the British one ?


----------



## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

No, you can't keep a UK plate once registered in Spain, even if registered as an historic vehicle.

Neither can Spanish plates be traded or transfered like in the UK.

With regards to terminology, the classification of a "classic" vehicle is left to the corresponding authorities. That means for example, that as far as my insurer is concerned my car is a "classic car" because it meets their age requirements (25 years) and because I don't use it as my main vehicle. Similarly, the town hall where the car is registered also considers it as a "classic car" as I have applied for the tax exemption based on age and they accepted. Note that not all town halls recognise this classification and therefore offer no tax exemption, some have different age limits (e.g. 30 years), and some only recognise the formal "historic" status as being eligible for tax exemption.

But my car is NOT historic, because that is a classification at state level (DGT) which I have not applied for, even though theoretically I could, but as stated above, there is little benefit considering the cost.

In any case, there is mounting pressure from environmentalist groups to abolish any tax concessions for classic and historic vehicles, and we are already excluded from driving them in Madrid and Barcelona, so it is only a matter of time that we face even more restrictions or prohibitions from using our classic vehicles. Whether that is a good thing or not I will not judge, but I have many friends that have invested the money to register their "classic" cars as "historic" in the hope that this will allow them to continue driving them a few years more, but there is nothing on paper to suggest that this will work.


----------



## m2m2012 (Oct 29, 2019)

Overandout said:


> The disadvantage is the cost of getting them!!
> 
> The law changed earlier this year which makes it a bit more difficult than before.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply. I know about the cost; yes not cheap.

The no modification rule worries me. So you add seat belts to a car that doesn't have them and they tell you no deal because the car is modified? Or you add an ignition cut-out to prevent the car catching on fire and they tell you no deal? Is there common sense in this system? Who does the tests?


----------



## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Regarding originality. 

Where a vehicle does not have a Certificate of Conformity, clearly impossible for many older cars, it will be subject to an engineers report but whomever does it, and particularly in the case of a car otherwise wholly unknown in Spain and not conspiculously modified or altered, will have little knowledge of what's original and what isn't so will compile their report based purely on what they are presented with.

I speak from first hand experience with UK car which not only had been lowered and fitted with aftermarket uprated suspension but also been substantially altered in the engine bay and around the front wings and headlights (the wings being in fact from a much earlier car). 

Come the engineers inspection he'd never seen the model before so had no idea at all what to look for and ultimately there were just two points which prompted any meaningful discussion they being the fact that the VIN number was solely on a riveted on plaque and not stamped in the chassis anywhere - and a lack of a rear fog light.

It was signed off despite those and successfully went through an ITV later the same morning.

It's possible to register an old car as normal not historic but in that instance you will only be able to insure it for so called 'market value' (i.e. no agreed value) plus it will only be covered for total loss not damage.


----------



## m2m2012 (Oct 29, 2019)

MataMata said:


> Regarding originality.
> 
> Where a vehicle does not have a Certificate of Conformity, clearly impossible for many older cars, it will be subject to an engineers report but whomever does it, and particularly in the case of a car otherwise wholly unknown in Spain and not conspiculously modified or altered, will have little knowledge of what's original and what isn't so will compile their report based purely on what they are presented with.
> 
> ...


Thanks, great info. So with your H plates does the government or insurance company you use place any restrictions on you? Can you use the car as a daily driver, do they limit the amount of kms you can do a year, allow you to drive the car outside of Spain?


----------



## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

m2m2012 said:


> Thanks, great info. So with your H plates does the government or insurance company you use place any restrictions on you? Can you use the car as a daily driver, do they limit the amount of kms you can do a year, allow you to drive the car outside of Spain?


It does NOT have H plates so it's the same as an ordinary car and not subject to any restrictions.

Km's will only limited if you choose so to keep the price down with an insurer, I have unlimited.

That's the principal reason for avoiding Historic, immediately after the registration I took the car on a jaunt to the Jura in France (Swiss border) and did 5500 km's on that alone!


----------



## m2m2012 (Oct 29, 2019)

MataMata said:


> It does NOT have H plates so it's the same as an ordinary car and not subject to any restrictions.
> 
> Km's will only limited if you choose so to keep the price down with an insurer, I have unlimited.
> 
> That's the principal reason for avoiding Historic, immediately after the registration I took the car on a jaunt to the Jura in France (Swiss border) and did 5500 km's on that alone!


Okay, well this thread is about H plates...when you started your post "Regarding originality..." and went on to talk about modified lowered cars passing I thought you were talking about receiving H plates. Are you suggesting your modified car would get Historic?

You wrote "That's the principal reason for avoiding Historic"...what is? Are you saying you know for a fact H plates cars are limited by authorities to a certain amount of kms or banned from use as daily drivers? Any links to Spanish websites outlining these restrictions you mention?


----------



## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

The engineers inspection was required either way and although Historic would have been the default for the car I asked for it not to be and so it was.

If I were to sell it a new owner would be able to change it to Historic if they chose however it's a one way street so could never be changed back again.


----------



## m2m2012 (Oct 29, 2019)

MataMata said:


> The engineers inspection was required either way and although Historic would have been the default for the car I asked for it not to be and so it was.
> 
> If I were to sell it a new owner would be able to change it to Historic if they chose however it's a one way street so could never be changed back again.


Thanks for your reply. The question that comes to mind after reading your posts knowing you didn't apply for H plates is whether the inspection your vehicle had to pass is the same inspection which a vehicle applying to H plates has to pass. As you pointed out, the H plate inspection costs much more...is it because they hire a classic car expert (perhaps from FIVA) to do the test? You wrote you had an "engineers inspection"...H plate inspection purpose is to see if the car has been changed from factory original; doesn't sound like the same test.

Anyway, you make a good point this topic is complex and maybe H plates are not needed. So I should speak with the authorities who issue the plates as well as insurance companies.


----------



## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Just to clarify... there is no restriction imposed by the authorities (DGT or any other state or local authority) about the number of Kms you can do per year on a H plate.

And the inspection for H plate registration is NOT the same as the ITV for new registrations. To register a car "normally" after importing, and ITV station can do this, but for H plates you need a licenced engineer's report, similar to when you need to homologate any modifications to a vehicle.


----------

