# Advice on moving to spain?



## Epi (Dec 15, 2010)

Hey,
I've been planning on moving to a different country for almost a year now, and I actually just got back from Prague about 2 months ago. It was awesome there! I've been bouncing between ideas of moving to Spain or Japan for a few months now without being able to fully decide even with how much I've looked at each. Now, I feel as though I've about 80% decided on spain, and was hoping some of you could provide me with some up to date advice.

From what I've seen, the Visa is a nightmare to get for an American. Is this true? I want to live over there for at least a year or so, so a Visa is definitely needed. I prefer not to do "under the table" work.

What is the current job situation like? I was hoping to get a simple job of teaching english (surprised, I know, no one does this! lol). As an American, would it be easy or easyish for me to get a job like that, that will pay enough to live on? I'd be okay with, and actually prefer to get a roomate, or even, if possible, live with a spanish family.

I've been thinking about living in an area of Spain off of the Mediterainian. I like the warm weather! I've been bouncing between Barcelona and Valencia right now. Are there any other areas that you might recommend that I look at? I do speak a little spanish, and am currently working on improving it. I speak enough to get by normal everyday stuff if people work with me, IE speak to me like I'm 5.  

I'm planning on getting a motorcycle when I get there, for ease of transport and cheapness. If I hear right, an international driver's license with a motorcycle endorsement will allow me to ride for a year without having to go through the spanish test?

Is it fairly easy to travel between spain and other countries? One reason that I have nearly settled on Spain, is that I believe that you can just hop a train to other countries. It's a very nice feature if it's true.

Of course, the main reason for my moving to spain, is from what I hear of the friendliness of everyone!

Any help anyone can provide would be much appreciated. Sorry for the long post.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Hi and welcome. It maybe worth you taking a look thru some of the recent threads about work and employment - its grim here. Getting into teaching English isnt easy, there are one or two jobs, but there are also one or two thousand people after them lol and you would certainly need a TEFL qualification to help you to get anything and I'm not sure the pay would be enough to live comortably on. Also it seems that its all to do with who you know and not what that will help get work

I dont know about the visa issue, there are a couple of american expats on here who will, I'm sure advice you on that, but you can bet it wont be easy. I'm not sure on the legalities of riding a motorcycle either - altho it looks horrendously dangerous to me!

As for travelling between countries, I think its fairly straight forward. Going to England is possibly a little more involved, with security checks, passports etc. 


.......And friendliness here? well like everywhere else there are some and some!

Jo xxx


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## Epi (Dec 15, 2010)

Yea, I've been looking through some and have been getting a bit depressed on that lol. I did forget to mention that I do have a tefl license and also a BA in English. I may have to consider another country, though I hope I can make it work.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Hi Epi, 

Spanish people are no more or less friendly than other nationalities and the days of spaniards welcoming foreigners with open arms are long gone. 

I would go as far as to say that there is now a tendency towards resentment to foreigners especially if they are perceived as a threat or rivality to take the few jobs that are opening up at the moment. 

Sorry but the situation is no good at the moment. I hate to say that you would be much better off in Japan. 

Or Egypt. Everyone is welcome here and people are friendly for as long as you have some $$$ to spare


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2010)

Epi said:


> Hey,
> I've been planning on moving to a different country for almost a year now, and I actually just got back from Prague about 2 months ago. It was awesome there! I've been bouncing between ideas of moving to Spain or Japan for a few months now without being able to fully decide even with how much I've looked at each. Now, I feel as though I've about 80% decided on spain, and was hoping some of you could provide me with some up to date advice.
> 
> From what I've seen, the Visa is a nightmare to get for an American. Is this true? I want to live over there for at least a year or so, so a Visa is definitely needed. I prefer not to do "under the table" work.
> ...



The ONLY way you're going to get over here easily without an enormous chunk of savings in the bank right now is this program: 

Estados Unidos

Apply TODAY. I'm serious. Spots fill up *extremely* fast. Fill in your CV online and send it in ASAP. The only problem is that you have little choice over where you get sent. Unfortunately, the places you want to go are the most popular and therefore, the spots might have been filled already. 

There is almost no way you're going to find an English teaching job for an American on your own. Due to the fact that a business can easily hire someone from the UK with little to no paperwork, Americans are absolutely last in line. And unless you're some sort of university professor genius, you're unlikely to get the job over even a less qualified EU native. Sucks, but it's not easy either for an EU native to get to the US without a darn good excuse. 

You can drive for the *first six months* in Spain on your International Licence. AFTER THOSE SIX MONTHS, *you can no longer legally drive* on your International/American Licence and you need to take the equivalent of the DMV test in Spain. Unfortunately, this is an expensive process and a headache. I've been here for nearly three years now and I haven't been able to change my license over yet! 

Good luck.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I moved here two years ago after three years in Prague.
The most important point is that Spain is totally unlike Prague, not only in the more obvious ways such as climate etc. Almost everything, from dealing with bureaucracy to more mundane matters, has to be approached differently. Spanish people have a completely different view on life compared to most Czechs. The standard of living and of expectation is much higher. There is a different kind of 'casualness' here.
As a non-EU citizen you will find it extremely difficult to get work, if not downright impossible. 
The job situation for English speakers is totally dissimilar to that in Prague. 
The Czech Republic has been a EU member for only six years and isn't perhaps so at ease with the concept as Spain.
Both countries have their plus and minus points but Spain won out for us.
Otherwise we would still be in Prague...
And lastly but most importantly...in neither country were we dependent on finding paid employment.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2010)

Epi / Spain is great in many ways, but if you are the least unlucky the visa procedure will not only be a nightmare, it will be a rockyhorrorpictureshowcomedy beyond all absurdity! While struggling to get a visa for my Japanese (!) gf I read many scary stories. Our own story is no less absurd, listen.

Early this year my gf tried to contact the Spanish embassy in Tokyo, no luck. Only their website was it possible. The information given was that one could get a 6 months visa for studies or a longer one provided one had a job. She applied for the 6 months one since she intended to study some Spanish here. We filled forms, produced documents, some with the help of a Spanish lawyer, I spent days in the notaria to get stamps and signatures, we paid a language school in advance for 4 months of teaching, we deposited a ridiculous sum of money in her bank account, (200 Euros a month times 6), a formal letter from me, stamped by the notaria ofc, saying that she would stay in my house and get fed etc. We got all this together and she went 900 kms by the Shinkansen from Kyusho to Tokyo to hand it all in, no way to do by mail.... Then we waited for an answer for 3 months. After having asked them again what was going on they told us that they no longer do the 6 months visa, so it was all for nada.

We asked, so what should we do then? Well.... they said, apply for a longer visa. Ok, did this. It included a number of extra docs, police reports, (the Japanese police had never heard of her ofc), medical exams proving she did not have AIDS or being a junkie, etc etc. Sent all this in plus the original docs. Waited another 2 months, no answer... 

Finally I had my Spanish lawyer to contact them and they did answer. They said that they gone back to the 6 months visa routine again and produced a visa with a starting date which was almost 6 months old... ) I can just wonder if these people have a brain or not?

We got back to them, with the help of my Spanish lawyer, and we did get the date corrected, so finally she could come here, although months later than planned.

I do not know how much money and time was spent on all this, but it was a painful experience. The treatment from the Spanish embassy was so mean, all arrogance and negligence. I do not believe embassy people are good at all, know some Swedish rotten eggs, but the Spanish ones did get the first prize! While going through all this, I did a lot of research on the net and came across similar stories, many from the US.

So, expect extremely bad treatment, no matter how honest and sincere you are. What you try to say will probably fall off the Spanish embassy people like water on a fat goose.

Job opportunities and areas here is much covered in other threads. Driving license for non EC people I do not know.

Besides all this, it is a bit funny to me that you hesitate between Spain and Japan. I know both countries well, but they are so way, way different!


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2010)

I don't think it's fair to generalize all Spanish embassy employees as rude. 



Regarding the study visa option: Yes, he could come here on a study visa, but that means he couldn't work. So that option is out, unless he can prove means to support himself.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I've just read an interesting article about Romania in The Economist. All is not well there. After a period of amazing growth the economy is now in freefall.....


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2010)

halydia said:


> I don't think it's fair to generalize all Spanish embassy employees as rude.
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding the study visa option: Yes, he could come here on a study visa, but that means he couldn't work. So that option is out, unless he can prove means to support himself.


ofc, there might be one or two good people, but our experince is that hey are rude and useless, they also change their procedures back and forth while the information on their websites is the same old outdated one. It seems they have no clue at all what they are doing. After how they treated us I hate these people.

I do not think visa applications for other reasons than studies are treated better. There are many horror stories on the net from non-EC people having tried to go to Spain, (as opposed to many other countries). Our case can not be a single case of bad luck, I am very sorry.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I've just read an interesting article about Romania in The Economist. All is not well there. After a period of amazing growth the economy is now in freefall.....


Yes, sadly it is true. Also they still have a big problem with corruption. On the other hand Greece and Spain are not in such a good shape either, are they?


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Yes, but noone in Spain goes hungry. At least the last time I was there THere is poverty and there is POVERTY. 

About your girlfriend.... Sorry to be blunt, but has she been attending a spanish study program in Japan, via the embassy, such as Cervantes institute. I'm not trying to be rude, but one cannot just decide out of the blue that you want to study spanish and apply for a visa. I'm sure you know what I mean.


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## MaidenScotland (Jun 6, 2009)

VidaTombola said:


> ofc, there might be one or two good people, but our experince is that hey are rude and useless, they also change their procedures back and forth while the information on their websites is the same old outdated one. It seems they have no clue at all what they are doing. After how they treated us I hate these people.
> 
> I do not think visa applications for other reasons than studies are treated better. There are many horror stories on the net from non-EC people having tried to go to Spain, (as opposed to many other countries). Our case can not be a single case of bad luck, I am very sorry.




I think you may find that the embassy employs very few Spanish the majority of the employees being local to the country the embassy is located.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2010)

Dizzie Izzie said:


> Yes, but noone in Spain goes hungry. At least the last time I was there THere is poverty and there is POVERTY.
> 
> About your girlfriend.... Sorry to be blunt, but has she been attending a spanish study program in Japan, via the embassy, such as Cervantes institute. I'm not trying to be rude, but one cannot just decide out of the blue that you want to study spanish and apply for a visa. I'm sure you know what I mean.


Dizzie, not sure if your post was a comment to my postings? About poverty, I am not sure which countries you talk about.

About the gf, if you talk about my gf I do not understand how any previous studies in Japan would make the handling of a visa application better? It is simply so that the people and the systems are useless.

Why could not anyone decide "out of the blue"? If all pre-requisties are in order, why a 6 month delay and a complete mess and confusion? (6 months extra, not counting the normal 4 months it takes to handle a visa application). Why are beginners courses in Spanish arranged and marketed if one have to study first in one's home country?

We plan to get married and live here. Is it a bad idea to attend a beginner's course as a start? No, I do not know what you mean, I am very sorry, but your post made me confused, if it now was directed to me.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2010)

MaidenScotland said:


> I think you may find that the embassy employs very few Spanish the majority of the employees being local to the country the embassy is located.


The Spanish embassy merely sent all the docs to Madrid and all had to be in Spanish. I doubt Japanese people are to blame.

Ok, I give up this one, all is well and the sun is shining. Let us not criticize anything Spanish or tell any "bad" stories, salud!


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

VidaTombola said:


> Dizzie, not sure if your post was a comment to my postings? About poverty, I am not sure which countries you talk about.
> 
> About the gf, if you talk about my gf I do not understand how any previous studies in Japan would make the handling of a visa application better? It is simply so that the people and the systems are useless.
> 
> ...



I mean to say that it sounds too simple to get a visa just by paying fees at a local language school and producing some police/medical report. That would result in lots of non EU citizens flocking in to Europe. It almost sounds like some sort of scam.

I am aware of many universities or embassy affiliated programs that do offer the visa for studients that are studying spanish in their home country, and then they get a year in Spain, this is fairly common, but not jus for a beginner course in a language school. 
Sorry it just sounds new to me. BUt I am no expert.


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

VidaTombola said:


> Dizzie, not sure if your post was a comment to my postings? About poverty, I am not sure which countries you talk about.
> 
> I was talking about Romania, didn't you mention that one?
> Now I am confused...
> ...


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

VidaTombola said:


> ofc, there might be one or two good people, but our experince is that hey are rude and useless, they also change their procedures back and forth while the information on their websites is the same old outdated one. It seems they have no clue at all what they are doing. After how they treated us I hate these people.
> 
> I do not think visa applications for other reasons than studies are treated better. There are many horror stories on the net from non-EC people having tried to go to Spain, (as opposed to many other countries). Our case can not be a single case of bad luck, I am very sorry.


Hasn't it ever occured to you that Spain may not really want non-EU migrants and so sets a high tariff to discourage all but the most committed and persistent? True, they want tourist money and all (Japanese among many others can just visit with their passport), but don't really want non-EU citizens to live, compete for few jobs and make demand on overstretched public services. The government clearly doesn't want to increase investment in consular staff, offer better training or speed up visa processing when the intention is to restrict immigration from outside EU.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

VidaTombola said:


> Yes, sadly it is true. Also they still have a big problem with corruption. On the other hand Greece and Spain are not in such a good shape either, are they?


No, that's true. But neither country can be compared to Romania, a country which has only in the last twenty years emerged from a truly evil dictatorship, far worse than Greece under the Colonels or Spain under Franco.
It's often forgotten that Spain, for all its current woes, is the fourth largest economy in the EU and the ninth in the world. However dire the situation in Greece, it will be propped up by other EU and non-EU states which have financial stakes in Greece and will themselves suffer if Greece defaults.
None of this can be said for Romania, which has nothing like the same economic, political or military clout of Spain or Greece.


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2010)

Of course my girlfriend’s visa application was a scam. We made a vicious plan to bring this quite wealthy, well-educated woman of 50 here 6 months. She paid language school in advance, 1500 Euros and presented a bank account with a ridiculous 2200 Euros per month for her stay, this with housing and food already provided by me, (letter by a lawyer and stamped by the notaria). The real aim with her visit was of course to go to Almeria and work illegally in the green houses for half the pay of a Spanish worker, then return to live like a queen in Japan with this stolen money.

I get very tired when people question honest and law abiding intentions and actions. I do not like to be called a scammer either. We followed the rules and the instructions from the Spanish authorities, then they did not play by the rules, instead they treated us very badly. If the reason for this was that they do not want any foreigners, they should say so. I am sure there are many countries in the world where visa applications are treated equal and in a correct way, the Spanish failed this big time. That was the lesson I learned and that was what I wanted to mention to the OP.

Yes, Joppa, it have occured to me that foreigners are not very welcome, (except their money as you say). In fact it occurs to me every second day, but maybe that is a Costa del Sol thing?

[endofstory, endofpostings]


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

VidaTombola said:


> Of course my girlfriend’s visa application was a scam. We made a vicious plan to bring this quite wealthy, well-educated woman of 50 here 6 months. She paid language school in advance, 1500 Euros and presented a bank account with a ridiculous 2200 Euros per month for her stay, this with housing and food already provided by me, (letter by a lawyer and stamped by the notaria). The real aim with her visit was of course to go to Almeria and work illegally in the green houses for half the pay of a Spanish worker, then return to live like a queen in Japan with this stolen money.
> 
> I get very tired when people question honest and law abiding intentions and actions. I do not like to be called a scammer either. We followed the rules and the instructions from the Spanish authorities, then they did not play by the rules, instead they treated us very badly. If the reason for this was that they do not want any foreigners, they should say so. I am sure there are many countries in the world where visa applications are treated equal and in a correct way, the Spanish failed this big time. That was the lesson I learned and that was what I wanted to mention to the OP.
> 
> ...


Hey, we know it wasnt a scam and that you're not a scammer!!!!!! Sometimes language differences give the wrong tones to what is said and how, so please dont take anything personally. Its lovely to have you here. As for whether Spain welcome us foreigners???? Well I guess that they are worried about their jobs, its the same in the UK, the "average man on the street" is not happy about the idea that immigrants/foreigners/expats go there and take jobs. It isnt necessarily like that, but thats how it may look if people dont have the facts.

So carry on posting, its nice to have you here! 

Jo xxx


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## Sonrisa (Sep 2, 2010)

Hello Vida, 

I have obviously offended you and for that I apologise. I was trying to advice you and I wish you luck in trying to get your fiance on a studient visa


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

jojo said:


> Hey, we know it wasnt a scam and that you're not a scammer!!!!!! Sometimes language differences give the wrong tones to what is said and how, so please dont take anything personally. Its lovely to have you here. As for whether Spain welcome us foreigners???? Well I guess that they are worried about their jobs, its the same in the UK, the "average man on the street" is not happy about the idea that immigrants/foreigners/expats go there and take jobs. It isnt necessarily like that, but thats how it may look if people dont have the facts.
> 
> So carry on posting, its nice to have you here!


It's the same here in UK. The government has at least made it clear that they want to reduce the number of non-EU migrants, and has been raising the barrier. 
Yes of course the money comes into it. I wonder how Bill Gates will be treated if he applies for a long-stay visa for UK, Spain or anywhere else???


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Joppa said:


> Yes of course the money comes into it. I wonder how Bill Gates will be treated if he applies for a long-stay visa for UK, Spain or anywhere else???


I would imagine that he'd be welcomed in any country as he wont be a threat to jobs and I'm sure would do quite a bit of spending too!!!!!

Jo xxx


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

jojo said:


> I would imagine that he'd be welcomed in any country as he wont be a threat to jobs and I'm sure would do quite a bit of spending too!!!!!
> 
> Jo xxx


He has been known to be asked for an autograph by excited border officials!
Mind you someone like him is ushered through VIP channels away from the hoi polloi.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2010)

Joppa said:


> He has been known to be asked for an autograph by excited border officials!
> Mind you someone like him is ushered through VIP channels away from the hoi polloi.


My goal in life is to get to use the "fast lane" in customs.  
:focus:


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

halydia said:


> My goal in life is to get to use the "fast lane" in customs.
> :focus:


Just get elite frequent flyer status or travel business or first class. Nothing to it, unless there are long lines.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2010)

Joppa said:


> Just get elite frequent flyer status or travel business or first class. Nothing to it, unless there are long lines.


This requires money.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

halydia said:


> This requires money.


Or get a free upgrade


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2010)

Joppa said:


> Or get a free upgrade


And how does one go about getting those?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

halydia said:


> And how does one go about getting those?


Reserve a seat on what looks like an overbooked flight (there are websites that tell you how many seats, if any, are left). Then check in and let the airline staff know you are available to be upgraded (best option) or bumped off (denied boarding - and get paid handsomely). Airlines usually upgrade status passengers first, but have been known to upgrade others where needed. It helps if you are on your own and travelling only with hand luggage, and looking smart


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Joppa said:


> Reserve a seat on what looks like an overbooked flight (there are websites that tell you how many seats, if any, are left). Then check in and let the airline staff know you are available to be upgraded (best option) or bumped off (denied boarding - and get paid handsomely). Airlines usually upgrade status passengers first, but have been known to upgrade others where needed. It helps if you are on your own and travelling only with hand luggage, and looking smart


Sorry, that doesn't happen. Not anymore.
For several years I flew around Europe business-class because like most people who do that I wasn't footing the bill. As a result, I got a BA EXecutive Club card - not the same as frequent -flier which doesn't automatically qualify you for Executive Club membership.
I stopped working for the organisation that paid my expenses last year but to my amazement I was issued with a new Exec. Club card by BA. This is a sign of desperation, as now I pay for my own flights I still travel BA but economy class only.
Free upgrades on BA were normally given only to Gold or Silver card holders but that has stopped, as I discovered.
I've noticed all sorts of other little cutbacks, such as reduced-size bottles of the wine/champagne you get with your meal onboard, chocolates not given with coffee, no nuts etc. with pre-dinner drinks...that sort of thing.
This may be just BA but I doubt it as other airlines are feeling the pinch too.
The only time I have ever had a free upgrade on a non-BA flight was once on CSA Prague - London when the flight was overbooked and I made a scene and refused to be' bumped'.


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