# Couple in UK desiring at Dubai - options?



## c_man (Sep 21, 2015)

Hi all,

My wife and I have strongly been contemplating a move to Dubai for some time. Over the past decade we have visited enough times (around 10) to feel comfortable with the environment and heat - which incidentally is one of the attracting factors. 

Things have progressed to a stage where my wife's employers (US firm who have offices here in London) have provided a green light for her to based in their Dubai office and would arrange for the visa for her. 

Crucially, this is *without* the infamous expat package we often hear about, sadly. They are still of course being accommodating in allowing her to be based in Dubai. 

The stumbling block is this: we have learnt that whilst a Dubai-employed husband is able to provide a spousal visa for his wife, a Dubai-employed wife cannot provide a spousal visa for her husband! 

This leaves us in a difficult situation, as I cannot get a transfer, although am content to leave my current role. The difficulty is of course finding a role in Dubai without being there - not happening really! We both work in IT and are fairly confident of finding something once out there, although admittedly we are not familiar with the job market. I would happily take 'any' job if it means securing the move...

Clearly the employment and visa blocker is a huge hurdle, almost as big as contemplating how we'd settle out there: with no expat package I suppose we'd have to consider a range of challenges, from accommodation to salaries, to health care, general logistics, to things we are not yet aware of!

We returned from a short vacation to Dubai this month, and whilst out there, were informed of a 'free zone visa' by a local as something which we should look in to, to overcome my visa situation. 

Apologies for the extended post, though if there are any words of advice with the above in mind, that would be most appreciated. 

In writing this post we hope someone, somewhere, may have been in a similar situation and can advise from experience! :fingerscrossed:


----------



## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

c_man said:


> Hi all,
> 
> My wife and I have strongly been contemplating a move to Dubai for some time. Over the past decade we have visited enough times (around 10) to feel comfortable with the environment and heat - which incidentally is one of the attracting factors.
> 
> ...


Hi,
Welcome to the forum.
Two errors in your post above.
Wives can sponsor husbands - providing they meet certain criteria.
You can do a visa run every 30 days and stay living on a visit visa until you find your own job - which will then provide you with a visa.
The freezone option exists - but would not normally be required - providing you both have British passports.
Lastly - no matter how many times you have visited as a tourist - it's vastly different once you live here!!
Cheers
Steve


----------



## c_man (Sep 21, 2015)

Hi Steve,
Thanks for your prompt response. A third error was in the title, not sure how "at" found it's way there... though I cannot find a way to edit the original post!



Stevesolar said:


> Wives can sponsor husbands - providing they meet certain criteria.


Well, this is new to us, and obviously very positive. Is there any further reading available on what this criteria may be?



Stevesolar said:


> The freezone option exists - but would not normally be required - providing you both have British passports.


Interesting... it may well be our lack of understanding here, but the freezone option was described to us as a way to pay to obtain a visa, and would require me to exit the region every x days (I think a day trip to Oman was suggested?) and re-enter to achieve a refreshed visa... essentially exactly what you describe as a visa run. Is a visa-run visa a sustainable way to live out there, or is this method limited also? (maybe x times allowed per year or similar?)

Given we both have British passports, are you able to elaborate a little please on the above, and also with respect to freezone (clearly we have not understood what this involves!)

Appreciate your help!


----------



## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
Visa run is the option every 30 days for British passport holders - unlimited runs available.
You would need to sort out good health insurance if you are doing this method - because you would not normally be able to get normal UAE health insurance without a UAE visa.
The freezone option is where you setup your own freezone company and that provides you with a UAE work visa - this normally costs around 25,000 AED in first year plus annual renewal fees for the freezone license plus normal visa renewal fees - every 2 or 3 years (dependent on freezone used).
Cheers
Steve


----------



## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

Out of interest, what were your expectations of " the infamous expat package we often hear about" ?


----------



## sm105 (Jan 9, 2014)

a) You can be physically present in the UAE on a visit visa (free for UK citizens) without any formalities. This has the drawback that you won't have any residence documentation so will be restricted on getting local driving licenses, bank accounts, contracts in your name, etc.. You will need to do a visa run or extend your visa every 30 days, and this can be done pretty much indefinitely without any problems. You cannot work under any circumstances in this status.

b) You can potentially be a legal resident of the UAE sponsored by your wife if her employment meets certain conditions regarding job title, salary, etc.. This still does not permit you to work in the UAE in itself - you will need a labour card arranged by a potential employer to work under your wife's sponsorship. It is very rare for a husband under wife's sponsorship to be approved for this however, so you should not count on this as an option.

c) You can set up your own Free Zone Company (a Free Zone company can be 100% owned by a foreigner, while a local Limited Liability Company must have a local partner) and that company will then sponsor your employment visa. This will make you a legal local resident and technically an employee of that company. You can work within the scope of your company's license providing services on behalf of the company. This is not really necessary unless you have no other option to obtain a residence visa, or possibly for tax reasons.

The best course of action for you under the circumstances described is likely to be that you enter initially as a visitor while your wife obtains her residence and puts all the essential documents in her name. You can do visa runs to reset your visit visa every 30 days while you go job hunting. Once you get a job offer, the new employer will sponsor your visa and you'll be all set.


----------



## The Rascal (Aug 6, 2014)

Desiring Dubai? New one on me.


----------



## c_man (Sep 21, 2015)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> Visa run is the option every 30 days for British passport holders - unlimited runs available.
> You would need to sort out good health insurance if you are doing this method - because you would not normally be able to get normal UAE health insurance without a UAE visa.
> The freezone option is where you setup your own freezone company and that provides you with a UAE work visa - this normally costs around 25,000 AED in first year plus annual renewal fees for the freezone license plus normal visa renewal fees - every 2 or 3 years (dependent on freezone used).
> ...


Thanks again, and for mentioning health insurance. Assume from the wording in your post that 'good health insurance' will still be available for someone on a visa run, although not as easy, as say, my wife would get it (automatically?) via her work.


----------



## c_man (Sep 21, 2015)

The Rascal said:


> Desiring Dubai? New one on me.


Yes, as already covered, the thread title is poor and I already mentioned I cannot find a way to edit the opening post/title. Perhaps your next reply can be a little more helpful? Thanks in advance... eace:


----------



## Racing_Goats (Sep 5, 2015)

c_man said:


> Thanks again, and for mentioning health insurance. Assume from the wording in your post that 'good health insurance' will still be available for someone on a visa run, although not as easy, as say, my wife would get it (automatically?) via her work.


You used to be able to buy good medical còver for around 800-1000 dirhams a month - search online for long term travel/expat health cover, as local uae providers would need a residence visa. The price presumably can vary a lot depending on your history and preferred level of cover.


----------



## c_man (Sep 21, 2015)

twowheelsgood said:


> Out of interest, what were your expectations of " the infamous expat package we often hear about" ?


I had a feeling this may be picked up on, but happy to elaborate as it will hopefully help ascertain whether we've been well informed! We are led to believe that if a move out there was driven by our employers, the least we would expect to negotiate for is being paid the equivalent UK gross salary (obviously this would then be net due to no tax) plus having accommodation, medical, mobilisation and flight (minimum one per year) costs covered. We are led to believe the package would have been even better around 7-10 years ago. 

Is the above a true representation of the reality these days?

Anyway, the move would not be driven by employers, but rather ourselves. 
We are fully aware we would have to investigate and fund accommodation, medical, insurance, etc. costs covered. If my wife retained her UK salary (and I managed to secure a well paid role) this may be achievable. However one fear was the prospect of my wife being transferred to the equivilent pay grade level from UK to UAE, thus to a local salary, no doubt much lower... we have no idea what this would be, and whether it would fund costs mentioned above.


----------



## c_man (Sep 21, 2015)

sm105 said:


> a) You can be physically present in the UAE on a visit visa (free for UK citizens) without any formalities. This has the drawback that you won't have any residence documentation so will be restricted on getting local driving licenses, bank accounts, contracts in your name, etc.. You will need to do a visa run or extend your visa every 30 days, and this can be done pretty much indefinitely without any problems. You cannot work under any circumstances in this status.
> 
> b) You can potentially be a legal resident of the UAE sponsored by your wife if her employment meets certain conditions regarding job title, salary, etc.. This still does not permit you to work in the UAE in itself - you will need a labour card arranged by a potential employer to work under your wife's sponsorship. It is very rare for a husband under wife's sponsorship to be approved for this however, so you should not count on this as an option.
> 
> ...


This is really very helpful, many thanks. 

a) Great, thanks for confirming Steve's earlier points. Happy to register official docs in my wifes name so no issues there. Obviously the pressure would be on on the job hunting front as otherwise 2 or 3 months in it could begin to get very frustrating (and financially tight). Incidentally, are 'visa runs' done on the sly, or is it a well recognised process? i.e. are there established places to to go, ways to get there, etc. or does everyone keep that to themselves?

b) This clarifies things, thank you. Whilst Steve mentioned in a post above that it *is* possible for a wife to sponser a husband, my surprise came from the fact we had already been informed this extremely difficult (the tone translated to 'not possible for us'). This news came from my wife's employers, and so it appears she probably won't meet the required criteria to make this happen. 

c) Thanks again for clarifying, we now understand what this involves. 

Agree - it appears the best option is to enter as a visitor and job hunt whilst doing the visa runs. On one hand its good to know these runs are unlimited, but on the other hand there would be a huge reliance on the (IT) market being buoyant enough for opportunities.

On a similar topic, does being on a visit visa lessen the chances of employment? i.e. does one appear as a less attractive candidate due to this status?


----------



## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

c_man said:


> This is really very helpful, many thanks.
> 
> a) Great, thanks for confirming Steve's earlier points. Happy to register official docs in my wifes name so no issues there. Obviously the pressure would be on on the job hunting front as otherwise 2 or 3 months in it could begin to get very frustrating (and financially tight). Incidentally, are 'visa runs' done on the sly, or is it a well recognised process? i.e. are there established places to to go, ways to get there, etc. or does everyone keep that to themselves?
> 
> ...


Hi,
Visa run is a perfectly legitimate process and a whole industry of companies offer the service to take you from Dubai to the Oman borders.
IT sector is generally buoyant - big question is whether your qualifications and experience match those for the desirable and well paid roles (versus the help desk and fixit types).
Big growth in mobile apps, information security, CRM and cloud/networking.
Cheers
Steve


----------



## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

c_man said:


> the least we would expect to negotiate for is being paid the equivalent UK gross salary (obviously this would then be net due to no tax) plus having accommodation, medical, mobilisation and flight (minimum one per year) costs covered. We are led to believe the package would have been even better around 7-10 years ago.


It still is for any even half-decent company. 

I know of one engineering firm which offers 'equivalent after tax salary' and pockets the tax savings themselves but even those cheapskates offer a decent housing allowance, vehicle costs, return flights home and school fees. All the other companies I know and work alongside offer what you expect even for an internal transfer - but you would get your Uk salary. Dubai isn't a hardship posting like it was so salary would be about the same..

If your employer really isn;t offering a tax free salary plus the benefits, that says more about the UK employer than anything else!

Wild guess - Partner dominated company who object to paying for anything that would reduce the amount in their personal pockets ?


----------



## c_man (Sep 21, 2015)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> Visa run is a perfectly legitimate process and a whole industry of companies offer the service to take you from Dubai to the Oman borders.
> IT sector is generally buoyant - big question is whether your qualifications and experience match those for the desirable and well paid roles (versus the help desk and fixit types).
> Big growth in mobile apps, information security, CRM and cloud/networking.
> ...


Good to know there are services widely available to cover off the visa run! 

Yes, the market is a relative unknown and big worry Whilst core experience lies in BI/Analytics, many skills are transferable into the likes of PM and Service Delivery.... hopefully a level or few above the 'help desk and fixit types' - although am well aware we cannot be picky when it comes to seeking out employment and would have to consider those if job hunting wasn't going to plan! Would even consider a total change in terms of career but as you point out, the mix of experience and qualifications would be lacking for any prospective (new) path....


----------



## c_man (Sep 21, 2015)

twowheelsgood said:


> It still is for any even half-decent company.
> 
> I know of one engineering firm which offers 'equivalent after tax salary' and pockets the tax savings themselves but even those cheapskates offer a decent housing allowance, vehicle costs, return flights home and school fees. All the other companies I know and work alongside offer what you expect even for an internal transfer - but you would get your Uk salary. Dubai isn't a hardship posting like it was so salary would be about the same..
> 
> ...


We have both worked for several FTSE100/Fortune 500 companies in our respective careers and her current employer (multinational US firm, revenue $18bn, so not small) stacks up very well in terms of remuneration, work life balance and investment in employees. 

We simply assumed the likes of accommodation, medical, mobilisation and flight (minimum one per year) costs were not included because rather the business asking her to move... it is her/us asking the business to accommodate our wishes, i.e. there is no obligation for them to offer anything attractive in the first place...

IF you still feel such benefits should be included, that's an interesting take, as her moving to Dubai would bring zero benefit to the company, other than a satisfied employee (who initially signed a contract to work in the UK).


----------



## Yussif (Jul 27, 2015)

c_man said:


> We have both worked for several FTSE100/Fortune 500 companies in our respective careers and her current employer (multinational US firm, revenue $18bn, so not small) stacks up very well in terms of remuneration, work life balance and investment in employees.
> 
> We simply assumed the likes of accommodation, medical, mobilisation and flight (minimum one per year) costs were not included because rather the business asking her to move... it is her/us asking the business to accommodate our wishes, i.e. there is no obligation for them to offer anything attractive in the first place...
> 
> IF you still feel such benefits should be included, that's an interesting take, as her moving to Dubai would bring zero benefit to the company, other than a satisfied employee (who initially signed a contract to work in the UK).


Just a small side-note, take it was you will but, a happy employee I'd say is a more efficient, harder working employee, I would ask for the benefits personally.


----------



## c_man (Sep 21, 2015)

Yussif said:


> Just a small side-note, take it was you will but, a happy employee I'd say is a more efficient, harder working employee, I would ask for the benefits personally.


We totally agree. No question.

But we try to see the situation from the employers perspective too, and recognise they don't need to incentivize anything here or 'sell' the move to us. It's all our doing. I think other employees who have moved, have not benefited from a benefits 'package' and so the precedence is set. 

Note, we are happy to drive the move ourselves and fund the various aspects - IF it is actually feasible and affordable! (finding this out is one of the reason for this thread)


----------



## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

c_man said:


> Thanks again, and for mentioning health insurance. Assume from the wording in your post that 'good health insurance' will still be available for someone on a visa run, although not as easy, as say, my wife would get it (automatically?) via her work.


Hi,
No local UAE health insurance will not be available whilst you are on visa runs - you need to look at things like BUPA International insurance.
Cheers
Steve


----------



## c_man (Sep 21, 2015)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> No local UAE health insurance will not be available whilst you are on visa runs - you need to look at things like BUPA International insurance.
> Cheers
> Steve


Thanks again. Appreciate most of this is pretty fundamental stuff so appreciate the constant clarification. It really helps .


----------



## Yussif (Jul 27, 2015)

c_man said:


> We totally agree. No question.
> 
> But we try to see the situation from the employers perspective too, and recognise they don't need to incentivize anything here or 'sell' the move to us. It's all our doing. I think other employees who have moved, have not benefited from a benefits 'package' and so the precedence is set.
> 
> Note, we are happy to drive the move ourselves and fund the various aspects - IF it is actually feasible and affordable! (finding this out is one of the reason for this thread)


Yea that's fair enough but for me it depends on how comfortable your wife is with having that type of conversation with whoever it is that she needs to talk to, if she is able to have a conversation explaining how it is for most decent companies in Dubai, with things like accommodation paid for, car allowance, free holiday back and forth home once a year, medical, etc. 

If she can almost have a relaxed conversation with that person rather than a ''here are my terms'' which probably won't go down to well then you may get some kind of offer and whilst you are looking at the employers perspective, are they really looking at yours? With the happy employee working harder for the company?


----------



## sm105 (Jan 9, 2014)

c_man said:


> On a similar topic, does being on a visit visa lessen the chances of employment? i.e. does one appear as a less attractive candidate due to this status?


Not at all. I'd say the majority of "new hires" actually get their jobs exactly this way. I just hired someone 2 weeks ago who was here on a visit visa for a month going around applying for jobs in his field. We had also shortlisted other more experienced candidates on paper, but he impressed us with his presence and personality in the personal interview much better than the other candidates did via Skype. Plus, we knew he was available immediately.


----------



## c_man (Sep 21, 2015)

Yussif said:


> Yea that's fair enough but for me it depends on how comfortable your wife is with having that type of conversation with whoever it is that she needs to talk to, if she is able to have a conversation explaining how it is for most decent companies in Dubai, with things like accommodation paid for, car allowance, free holiday back and forth home once a year, medical, etc.
> 
> If she can almost have a relaxed conversation with that person rather than a ''here are my terms'' which probably won't go down to well then you may get some kind of offer and whilst you are looking at the employers perspective, are they really looking at yours? With the happy employee working harder for the company?


All good points, thanks. Luckily, she is able to have those types of conversations in a informal manner so whilst we haven't ruled out benefits, we're assuming there will be none (just like a move to any other country would require us to 'start from scratch').


----------



## c_man (Sep 21, 2015)

sm105 said:


> Not at all. I'd say the majority of "new hires" actually get their jobs exactly this way. I just hired someone 2 weeks ago who was here on a visit visa for a month going around applying for jobs in his field. We had also shortlisted other more experienced candidates on paper, but he impressed us with his presence and personality in the personal interview much better than the other candidates did via Skype. Plus, we knew he was available immediately.


That's really encouraging! Seems a daunting task but at least there is hope.


----------



## Yussif (Jul 27, 2015)

c_man said:


> All good points, thanks. Luckily, she is able to have those types of conversations in a informal manner so whilst we haven't ruled out benefits, we're assuming there will be none (just like a move to any other country would require us to 'start from scratch').


Oh sorry right I misunderstood, I thought they had declared there will be no benefits, so shes yet to have that conversation at all then?

If that's the case then happy days, when it does come up in conversation then it's a lot easier to have that chat since your wife isn't arguing an objection, let's see what happens then


----------



## c_man (Sep 21, 2015)

Yussif said:


> Oh sorry right I misunderstood, I thought they had declared there will be no benefits, so shes yet to have that conversation at all then?
> 
> If that's the case then happy days, when it does come up in conversation then it's a lot easier to have that chat since your wife isn't arguing an objection, let's see what happens then


Apologies, maybe I wasn't clear enough myself. Whilst she has had very initial conversations with her employers, they have only this far alluded to covering the visa/permit aspects, nothing more. Coupled with the fact that others who have moved have received no other 'benefits' or 'package' we strongly assume that applies to our case too. 

Talks have not advanced with her employers due to the uncertainty around my visa/job status (or lack of). This thread has helped with this, however.


----------



## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

c_man said:


> Whilst she has had very initial conversations with her employers, they have only this far alluded to covering the visa/permit aspects, nothing more. Coupled with the fact that others who have moved have received no other 'benefits' or 'package' we strongly assume that applies to our case too.


I repeat my previous assertion - they are not realistic in getting people from your part of the world to work here then.

Maybe thats right for the market but westerners don;t generally go to Dubai for salary only, and little else. I know thats a generalisation but if your employer has a company in Dubai, which can sponsor employees here I seriously doubt there would be many westerners working there.

My take is that your expectations ARE realistic as thats what westerners get so to expect anyone to come to one of the most expensive cities on the planet for simply a tax free salary is not designed to attract the best.

I'd love to be afly on the wall in your conversations with HR who probably haven't been out of their country and certainly don't appear to have an inkling of what the market is here.


----------



## c_man (Sep 21, 2015)

twowheelsgood said:


> I repeat my previous assertion - they are not realistic in getting people from your part of the world to work here then.


I am not sure if we have our wires crossed or if I've not been clear enough:

The company have no interest in wanting to 'get' my wife to work in Dubai. 
It offers them zero commercial benefit. 
They have not asked her to move and had no intention of doing so. 
They therefore offer zero incentive for her to move, as to them, she is a UK employee that is funded from within the UK part of the business.

They would be doing a favour for her, by letting her work from the Dubai office. Nothing more, nothing less. Simply a green light to be based in the Dubai office, so long as the work for the UK business is completed as it currently is, with no disruption.

"they are not realistic in getting people from your part of the world to work here then." = the simple answer is, they don't need to be! 

They are valuing their employee's wishes by being accommodating, rather than being dismissive of it. In many similar scenarios, where an employee wishes to move abroad for personal reasons, surely they'd have to resign and instigate the move themselves.
To reiterate, the company has not instigated anything here, it is us who have considered the move.


----------



## chestnut (Apr 1, 2013)

c_man said:


> Simply a green light to be based in the Dubai office, so long as the work for the UK business is completed as it currently is, with no disruption.


The sentence above may cause you some tax issues if the employment contract is not a UAE contract and her salary paid out of the UAE entity. I would suggest you check the tax position you would be in with regard to revenue earned from a UK company.


----------



## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

You've been clear enough but are missing my point.

No decent employer asks an employee to fund their employment.  Thats 'the offer' they are making.

If they have setup out here, then they know what the cost of living is, and if they are offering you less than that, then they are an employer whose judgement is suspect. 

They are NOT doing you a favour - you are doing one for them by allowing them to employ someone on a much lower salary than they could employ here.

So your original belief that the days of ex pat packages of a type you anticipated were over is untrue. 

You just have an employer who is out to do themselves a favour at your expense.


----------



## c_man (Sep 21, 2015)

chestnut said:


> The sentence above may cause you some tax issues if the employment contract is not a UAE contract and her salary paid out of the UAE entity. I would suggest you check the tax position you would be in with regard to revenue earned from a UK company.


Thank you for the caution. 

I'm sure she would be on a UAE contract, the ambiguity is around whether it would be on the equivilant pay grad for a UAE, or a AED sum directly translated from current GBP. Above all, the company has supported other transfers in the past and therefore am sure potential tax implications would not be an issue. Appreciate the perspective, though - thanks.


----------



## c_man (Sep 21, 2015)

twowheelsgood said:


> You've been clear enough but are missing my point.
> 
> No decent employer asks an employee to fund their employment. Thats 'the offer' they are making.
> 
> ...


...and you have been clear enough too - I now see the point you are making! Thank you.
We assumed (perhaps naively) that her current pay grade equivalent would be in line with a good standard/cost of living. Will bear in should we reach the stage of such discussions with her employers. 

I'm am sure if we reach that stage, I'll be starting a thread on suitable income/packages for a couple to live on (realise there are several on here already).


----------

