# Best way to pay for property in Egypt (limits on cash transfer)



## Chris Sutton

Can someone tell me what is the best way to pay for a property in Egypt if the money is in a bank account in the UK ?

(there is a limit of L.E.5,000 and $10,000 or equivalent, on the amount of cash allowed to be carried in or out of Egypt.)

Do I need to initially go out to Egypt (Sharm El Sheik), open a bank account in person, then return to UK and ask my UK bank to transfer the funds to the bank account number?

Or is it possible to go out to Sharm, set up the bank account and then simply phone my UK bank to tranfer the funds without having to come back to UK ?

Or is there another way ??

Thanks


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## Gounie

Or........maybe you find a resale property? You will be happy that the property has been built, is maintained and that there are other happy owners living there. And then maybe the seller wishes to have the money in the UK rather than have the problem of getting the money out of Egypt. There are probably a lot of Brits wanting to sell?

I bought a resale but set up a bank account when I visited the property first time and then transferred the money and returned to Egypt to finish the purchase.


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## Chris Sutton

Gounie said:


> Or........maybe you find a resale property? You will be happy that the property has been built, is maintained and that there are other happy owners living there. And then maybe the seller wishes to have the money in the UK rather than have the problem of getting the money out of Egypt. There are probably a lot of Brits wanting to sell?
> 
> I bought a resale but set up a bank account when I visited the property first time and then transferred the money and returned to Egypt to finish the purchase.




I am definitely going to buy resale. Maybe one around £60k to live in and two at around £35k each to rent out.
For one thing I can't wait 6 to 12 months while an off plan is built and you never know if the developer is going to go bust or just walk away with your cash for whatever reason.


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## MaidenScotland

Chris Sutton said:


> I am definitely going to buy resale. Maybe one around £60k to live in and two at around £35k each to rent out.
> For one thing I can't wait 6 to 12 months while an off plan is built and you never know if the developer is going to go bust or just walk away with your cash for whatever reason.




That is very true about the developers however are you sure you will be able to rent the other two out?


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## Gounie

Chris Sutton said:


> For one thing I can't wait 6 to 12 months


Why the rush? It's a buyers market right now. Have you already lived in Sharm? It's a good idea to rent to make sure you make the right decision and get the right area, etc. Even in a place like El Gouna the wrong property can be on the market for years.


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## Chris Sutton

Gounie said:


> Why the rush? It's a buyers market right now. Have you already lived in Sharm? It's a good idea to rent to make sure you make the right decision and get the right area, etc. Even in a place like El Gouna the wrong property can be on the market for years.



Why the rush? ...Well I am in no great rush to buy. But once I have bought I will be out there with no income apart from what I get from renting out the two apartments. I would not be allowed to do any work so that would be the only option.
Do you think there would be a problem in renting them out ??

What is the going rent on a £35k one bedroom furnished apartment ?


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## canuck2010

Might want to see how the elections go before committing, no one knows what the economy will be like.


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## Widget

Chris Sutton said:


> What is the going rent on a £35k one bedroom furnished apartment ?


Depends on what part of Sharm the property is in, if in Nabq or Hadaba a one bed can go for as little as 1,800LE pcm, wheoreas in Naama they go for anywhere in between 2,000 - 3,500LE PCM.

Also depends on the decor and facilities provided as well, some landlords opinion of furnished differs vastly from others!


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## Chris Sutton

canuck2010 said:


> Might want to see how the elections go before committing, no one knows what the economy will be like.



Do you think there is any chance the Egyptian government will change the law on foreigners owning and renting out property ?

...or the regulations on visas ?


Just one other thing -

I read that it's officially not permitted for non-Egyptians to own more than two properties but I've also heard that there are ways around that. Can anyone shed any more light on that ?

Thanks


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## MaidenScotland

Chris Sutton said:


> Do you think there is any chance the Egyptian government will change the law on foreigners owning and renting out property ?
> 
> ...or the regulations on visas ?
> 
> 
> Just one other thing -
> 
> I read that it's officially not permitted for non-Egyptians to own more than two properties but I've also heard that there are ways around that. Can anyone shed any more light on that ?
> 
> Thanks




Personally I think it would be foolish to be thinking of buying property just now, no one can say what this government will and can do, don't forget this is a country that has brought in regulations one day and then thrown them out a week later.. nothing is set in stone nor does it takes years or months for new laws to be passed by parliament.. 

You ask about renting out your properties please read through all the threads and see how we have been chatting about no tourists, so who will rent your properties?

Have you been to Egypt?

Maiden


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## Chris Sutton

MaidenScotland said:


> Personally I think it would be foolish to be thinking of buying property just now, no one can say what this government will and can do, don't forget this is a country that has brought in regulations one day and then thrown them out a week later.. nothing is set in stone nor does it takes years or months for new laws to be passed by parliament..
> 
> You ask about renting out your properties please read through all the threads and see how we have been chatting about no tourists, so who will rent your properties?
> 
> Have you been to Egypt?
> 
> Maiden



If I do buy it probably wouldn't be for at least six months anyway (as my rental contract is up then) so I will see how things go regarding the political situation.

As regards who will rent my properties I don't know - I suppose the same thing applies - wait and watch the situation and see if things improve. There is always the resident Egyptian populous but as to what level of rent they can realistically afford I'm not sure.
I suppose the best thing is to fly out for 2-3 weeks and do some research.

I did actually consider Thailand due to cheap property and low cost of living - but it p....s down for 3 months of the year - and its the other side of the world!


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## MaidenScotland

Chris Sutton said:


> If I do buy it probably wouldn't be for at least six months anyway (as my rental contract is up then) so I will see how things go regarding the political situation.
> 
> As regards who will rent my properties I don't know - I suppose the same thing applies - wait and watch the situation and see if things improve. There is always the resident Egyptian populous but as to what level of rent they can realistically afford I'm not sure.
> I suppose the best thing is to fly out for 2-3 weeks and do some research.
> 
> I did actually consider Thailand due to cheap property and low cost of living - but it p....s down for 3 months of the year - and its the other side of the world!





I think I can safely say in 6 months time nothing will have changed for the better here, it will be a long slow process before the country is back on its feet however the Red sea resorts due to their location will probably get there quicker than Cairo due to geography. If you are planning to come I advise you not to come during Ramadan as it is very difficult to do any business as the country stops work for a month.

Try and work out what you will need to live on, are you bringing a family? What standard of living are you used to? Renting out your property will not guarantee you an income, there are lots of properties sitting out there looking for buyers or tenants and you have them to compete with. 

Maiden


ps a loaf of sliced bread cost me 88pence sterling yesterday, and they are tiny loaves

Local bread is cheaper because it is subsided but sometime one just long for a cup of tea and a slice of toast with Lurpak butter which is now costing 2.50 sterling compared to 90p just over a year ago,


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## Gounie

I remember reading that if you register your property as a foreigner you can only own two properties and you are not allowed to sell them within five years. Maybe this will change when they write the new constitution? Not sure if this applies to Sharm as all property there is leasehold whereas everywhere else is freehold I believe. Not everyone registers their property and you cannot register your property if the land isn't registered. Here in El Gouna the private town has been growing for over twenty years. The land is registered in segments and some areas are not registered so properties cannot be registered. Once your property is registered you could apply for a residents visa if you are not working and living on an annual tourist visa.

The best thing is join an Egyptian property forum. Unfortunately so many property buyers have lost their money here in Egypt that many forums were closed as the developers/agents threatened legal action as their bad reputations spread.

Regarding Thailand, I'm sure as a foreigner you cannot own a property alone?


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## MaidenScotland

If you own rental property here what is the tax situation on your rental income if you are a resident in Egypt?


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## Chris Sutton

Gounie said:


> I remember reading that if you register your property as a foreigner you can only own two properties and you are not allowed to sell them within five years. Maybe this will change when they write the new constitution? Not sure if this applies to Sharm as all property there is leasehold whereas everywhere else is freehold I believe. Not everyone registers their property and you cannot register your property if the land isn't registered. Here in El Gouna the private town has been growing for over twenty years. The land is registered in segments and some areas are not registered so properties cannot be registered. Once your property is registered you could apply for a residents visa if you are not working and living on an annual tourist visa.
> 
> The best thing is join an Egyptian property forum. Unfortunately so many property buyers have lost their money here in Egypt that many forums were closed as the developers/agents threatened legal action as their bad reputations spread.
> 
> Regarding Thailand, I'm sure as a foreigner you cannot own a property alone?



You can own a condo in Thailand in an apartment block but no more than 49% of the apartments in the development can be owned by foreigners.

You can't own a house. You can put it in a Thai persons name - but I wouldn't recommend that.

The main reason I considered Sharm or Hurghada was the affordability of properties. But with the political situation scaring tourists away maybe I have to reconsider the whole idea of buying to let.

I will join a property forum and see what the consensus is and take it from there but at the moment it doesn't sound promising.


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## Chris Sutton

MaidenScotland said:


> If you own rental property here what is the tax situation on your rental income if you are a resident in Egypt?



I have no idea.

I'm hoping someone that has done that will reply and let me know.

How would the authorities know? do you have to show them proof of how you will support yourself ?


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## Chris Sutton

MaidenScotland said:


> I think I can safely say in 6 months time nothing will have changed for the better here, it will be a long slow process before the country is back on its feet however the Red sea resorts due to their location will probably get there quicker than Cairo due to geography. If you are planning to come I advise you not to come during Ramadan as it is very difficult to do any business as the country stops work for a month.
> 
> Try and work out what you will need to live on, are you bringing a family? What standard of living are you used to? Renting out your property will not guarantee you an income, there are lots of properties sitting out there looking for buyers or tenants and you have them to compete with.
> 
> Maiden
> 
> 
> ps a loaf of sliced bread cost me 88pence sterling yesterday, and they are tiny loaves
> 
> Local bread is cheaper because it is subsided but sometime one just long for a cup of tea and a slice of toast with Lurpak butter which is now costing 2.50 sterling compared to 90p just over a year ago,



If it's getting like that then why stay in Egypt ? It must have some attraction ? Do you get a pension out there ? Without that the only viable option is to buy to let as work is prohibited


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## Gounie

I met a guy here in El Gouna who was delivering a yacht to Thailand from the UK. He got as far as Port Ghalib and abandoned the yacht and flew the rest of the way. He then built a house, not sure how he got round the ownership. The house is beautiful with wonderful garden and pool. He has a young Thai girlfriend, fancy truck and motorbike. The bit that freaks me out are the vypers and big, fat pythons that he finds in his garden!!

I don't think anyone that rents out their properties declares the income. The rules are you must find your job before you arrive in Egypt. Many come here and then find work. But they are really clamping down on anyone working without a work permit now.

I love living here on the Red Sea coast. Been here 7 years, cost of living is cheap and I get my income from renting out my UK property. It's a wonderful life but you have to do your homework. Highly recommend coming out and renting first until things settle down and we know what's ahead and making sure when you do purchase that it is in the right area and right for you.


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## Chris Sutton

Gounie said:


> I met a guy here in El Gouna who was delivering a yacht to Thailand from the UK. He got as far as Port Ghalib and abandoned the yacht and flew the rest of the way. He then built a house, not sure how he got round the ownership. The house is beautiful with wonderful garden and pool. He has a young Thai girlfriend, fancy truck and motorbike. The bit that freaks me out are the vypers and big, fat pythons that he finds in his garden!!
> 
> I don't think anyone that rents out their properties declares the income. The rules are you must find your job before you arrive in Egypt. Many come here and then find work. But they are really clamping down on anyone working without a work permit now.
> 
> I love living here on the Red Sea coast. Been here 7 years, cost of living is cheap and I get my income from renting out my UK property. It's a wonderful life but you have to do your homework. Highly recommend coming out and renting first until things settle down and we know what's ahead and making sure when you do purchase that it is in the right area and right for you.



I suppose that's another way of doing it -- buy a UK property, get an agent to handle it and use that as income and then buy another in Egypt. No need to worry about the level of tourism in Egypt then.

Trouble is my total funds might only stretch to about £140k I would have to be clever and careful about what kind of property to buy in the UK in order to supply enough income and still leave enough to buy a place in Egypt. I live in Manchester (which has a large student population) and I know that in south Manchester 3 bedroom properties can be bought for around £90k. 
3 x £300/month (ex. bills etc) = £900 minus 15% for the agency = £765/month ...which is about £176/week to live on.

Is 15% a realistic agency fee ?

...£176 isn't a lot but then I would have no rent or mortgage to pay in Egypt, just possibly a small ground rent as it would be leasehold and (minimal?) bills

If I can muster more than £140k then it becomes more viable still


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## MaidenScotland

Chris Sutton said:


> If it's getting like that then why stay in Egypt ? It must have some attraction ? Do you get a pension out there ? Without that the only viable option is to buy to let as work is prohibited




The thread is not about why I am here.. I am trying to answer your questions/queries by telling you how I see things,


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## hurghadapat

Chris Sutton said:


> I suppose that's another way of doing it -- buy a UK property, get an agent to handle it and use that as income and then buy another in Egypt. No need to worry about the level of tourism in Egypt then.
> 
> Trouble is my total funds might only stretch to about £140k I would have to be clever and careful about what kind of property to buy in the UK in order to supply enough income and still leave enough to buy a place in Egypt. I live in Manchester (which has a large student population) and I know that in south Manchester 3 bedroom properties can be bought for around £90k.
> 3 x £300/month (ex. bills etc) = £900 minus 15% for the agency = £765/month ...which is about £176/week to live on.
> 
> Is 15% a realistic agency fee ?
> 
> ...£176 isn't a lot but then I would have no rent or mortgage to pay in Egypt, just possibly a small ground rent as it would be leasehold and (minimal?) bills
> 
> If I can muster more than £140k then it becomes more viable still



Don't forget that if you rent out property in the UK you have to pay tax on the rent as it is classed as unearned income.....also if you are letting to students you will have to remember that may be having to do quite a bit of re-decorating which all eats away at your income.
I can't remember exactly what fee i was paying my letting agent but think it was around about 12 to 15% and on top of that i had to pay the insurance for the house which is a special one for property which was let.


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## Chris Sutton

hurghadapat said:


> Don't forget that if you rent out property in the UK you have to pay tax on the rent as it is classed as unearned income.....also if you are letting to students you will have to remember that may be having to do quite a bit of re-decorating which all eats away at your income.
> I can't remember exactly what fee i was paying my letting agent but think it was around about 12 to 15% and on top of that i had to pay the insurance for the house which is a special one for property which was let.



How was it paid to you ? by international bank transfer from the letting agents account to your bank account in Egypt ?


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## hurghadapat

Chris Sutton said:


> How was it paid to you ? by international bank transfer from the letting agents account to your bank account in Egypt ?


It was payed into my UK account.


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## Chris Sutton

hurghadapat said:


> It was payed into my UK account.



Then how do you access the money from Egypt ?


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## Gounie

With my rental it is paid into my Barclays account. I cannot arrange an overseas transfer from abroad out of the account. You have to visit a branch. And when you do it is around GBP25. I believe you can from a Nationwide account and there is no charge as a friend of mine receives his pension every month?


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## hurghadapat

Gounie said:


> With my rental it is paid into my Barclays account. I cannot arrange an overseas transfer from abroad out of the account. You have to visit a branch. And when you do it is around GBP25. I believe you can from a Nationwide account and there is no charge as a friend of mine receives his pension every month?


I bank with Barclays and this is their latest info :-



If you are registered for Barclays Online Banking and use PINsentry, you can use our fast and efficient International Payments Service. Find out more

You can make international payments via telephone by calling 08457 165921** (+44 (0) 1202 648 921 from outside the UK) as long as the destination account is in your name and they are for no more than £5,000.


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## hurghadapat

Chris Sutton said:


> Then how do you access the money from Egypt ?


You can draw the money from your UK bank account at any ATM if you wish or open an Egyptian bank acc.and arrange with your bank to make regular transfers to that account...easy peasy ok.


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## marenostrum

Chris Sutton said:


> I suppose that's another way of doing it -- buy a UK property, get an agent to handle it and use that as income and then buy another in Egypt. No need to worry about the level of tourism in Egypt then.
> 
> Trouble is my total funds might only stretch to about £140k I would have to be clever and careful about what kind of property to buy in the UK in order to supply enough income and still leave enough to buy a place in Egypt. I live in Manchester (which has a large student population) and I know that in south Manchester 3 bedroom properties can be bought for around £90k.
> 3 x £300/month (ex. bills etc) = £900 minus 15% for the agency = £765/month ...which is about £176/week to live on.
> 
> Is 15% a realistic agency fee ?
> 
> ...£176 isn't a lot but then I would have no rent or mortgage to pay in Egypt, just possibly a small ground rent as it would be leasehold and (minimal?) bills
> 
> If I can muster more than £140k then it becomes more viable still


In all honesty I think you are living a pipe dream.
First of all three bedroom properties are not 90k in South manchester, more like 140k, unless you are after some crappy terraced. You can buy a crap property but that will guarantee you crap tenants most of the time. You say you want to rent to students, have you thought of what its like renting out to students? Have you taken into account a two month void during the summer? Are you aware that a lot of student accommodation is being built ie. halls of residences etc etc?

Buy to let is not for the faint hearted. OK there are many stories of whizzkids that have made tons of ££ buy buying property "portfolios" and who are driving fast cars with fancy chicks sat next to them but there are also many horror stories, ie. people getting sued because the local DHSS renter has tripped over a paving slab in the garden......

If you really want to make money out of renting buy a bigger house, split it into rooms and rent it to asylum seekers via your local council. Returns on this are about 10%. But whatever you do ask yourself if you are ready to be a landlord.

Also imho anyone that lives just off rental income over two properties needs his head checking out.


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## Ethicranger

It should be trust as a priority at last in this country  
should be tourism back until you sort out buying ( good deals i guess )


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## Mio

In the way they open the frontiers.... I hope the next president can make something for make orden ( today I stay in Tahrir, and is all most destroyed; where is the trees , the flowers, the aall near... :-( ), open the turism ( the people no stay here, they think this country not is secure) and etc. Etc ....


I waiting for the president put in job in the first hour


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## Helen Ellis

Chris Sutton said:


> I suppose that's another way of doing it -- buy a UK property, get an agent to handle it and use that as income and then buy another in Egypt. No need to worry about the level of tourism in Egypt then.
> 
> Trouble is my total funds might only stretch to about £140k I would have to be clever and careful about what kind of property to buy in the UK in order to supply enough income and still leave enough to buy a place in Egypt. I live in Manchester (which has a large student population) and I know that in south Manchester 3 bedroom properties can be bought for around £90k.
> 3 x £300/month (ex. bills etc) = £900 minus 15% for the agency = £765/month ...which is about £176/week to live on.
> 
> Is 15% a realistic agency fee ?
> 
> ...£176 isn't a lot but then I would have no rent or mortgage to pay in Egypt, just possibly a small ground rent as it would be leasehold and (minimal?) bills
> 
> If I can muster more than £140k then it becomes more viable still




£176 per week is more than enough to live on in Hurghada unless you spend all night every night out boozing. Most expats here live on a lot less than that. If you have a good trade, (plumber, electrician etc) you could probably pick up some odd jobs to supplement your income, ( or barman or dj,or baker, tailor, language or other subject teacher etc ). 
Resale prices are good now, there are some bargains around, (one apt reduced from £73k to £55K and I know they're losing a LOT on that) but as has been previously stated, who knows what's going to happen in the next year. I've seen some basic apartments, (no pool/lift) on offer for well under £20k, what standard of housing are you looking at?
I agree with another poster that student lets can be risky, and I think you'd be lucky to buy a decent student rental for 90k, having viewed several in Chorlton, Withington and Palatine Rd areas the amount of renovation/redecoration needed was more than it was worth to get a good return. In my opinion anyway but I assume you've looked more recently than I have. Long term tenancies are much easier to manage, but you still have to allow for periods when the property may be empty.
Good luck anyway.


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