# Driving restrictions in Madrid because of pollution due to be lifted



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I don't know whether you all heard about the driving restrictions put into place recently by the Ayuntamiento de Madrid. First in November, then again in December the speed limit on a motorway into Madrid was reduced and then, as the situation did not improve enough, parking was restricted inside the city so that fewer people would drive their cars into the city centre. Public transport was increased.
This has been a big problem over the years that was firmly swept under the carpet by the previous mayor Ana Botella (PP wife of ex president Aznar). Her way of tackling the problem was to move the devices that measure the quality of the air to less polluted areas of the city. That way the measurements of pollutants went down!
Madrid traffic calming measures: Madrid puts anti-pollution measures into place for second time in a month | In English | EL PAÃ�S


> For the second time in three weeks, Madrid City Hall has restricted the traffic in the center of the Spanish capital in a bid to combat high pollution levels. Drivers will not be able to park in any metered public parking spot between 9am and 9pm today, unless they have a residents’ permit.
> The council took the decision – which was made public at 9.30pm last night via social networking sites and its communication department – after a number of city measuring stations gave readings of more than 200 micrograms of nitrogen dioxide per cubic meter for three consecutive days.


But, before all of us who don't live in the city get smug and talk about the fresh country air where we live, make sure that the quality of your air really is as good as you think. Madrid is not the only place to be affected. Indeed Oviedo, capital of green Spain in the north has also implemented traffic restrictions due to pollution. In fact it closed down a major motorway going into the city all together, and the restiction was for 3 whole days
Cerrada la entrada y salida de Oviedo por la "Y" debido a los altos índices de contaminación - La Nueva España - Diario Independiente de Asturias

One of the main reasons for these increased levels of pollution is that lack of rain/ snow and the abnormally high temperatures that we are having, so think before you praise the "lovely" weather we're having. We need a bit of this...:fingerscrossed:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

On Saturday we went to Madrid for the weekend (by train) and we commented that the smog as we approached looked a bit like it did in London when we lived in Essex.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

*Pollution*



baldilocks said:


> On Saturday we went to Madrid for the weekend (by train) and we commented that the smog as we approached looked a bit like it did in London when we lived in Essex.


You should have tried Mexico City in the 80's when the pollution was ridiculously high and so high that one Xmas the kids were kept off school for over a month after the hols.
The authorities brought in a scheme of a day without a car, the biggest scam ever, cos originally it was only for x months and then by 'popular consent', was continued for several years. Go to a poor section of the city and ask a few people. The solution for those who could afford a third car was to buy a third one and make sure it had the number plates that didn't coincide with the other two cars.
I don't know what the law is here in Spain, but one great help could have been not allowing lorries to drive during the day. Of course the other is that diesal or deisal, not sure how to spell it, should be banned. I know it was promoted some years ago and indeed a lot of the buses in Spain run on it as do many cars.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Justina said:


> You should have tried Mexico City in the 80's when the pollution was ridiculously high and so high that one Xmas the kids were kept off school for over a month after the hols.
> The authorities brought in a scheme of a day without a car, the biggest scam ever, cos originally it was only for x months and then by 'popular consent', was continued for several years. Go to a poor section of the city and ask a few people. The solution for those who could afford a third car was to buy a third one and make sure it had the number plates that didn't coincide with the other two cars.
> I don't know what the law is here in Spain, but one great help could have been not allowing lorries to drive during the day. Of course the other is that diesal or deisal, not sure how to spell it, should be banned. I know it was promoted some years ago and indeed a lot of the buses in Spain run on it as do many cars.


Our car is a diesel, but so much depends on how it is used and the same applies to all vehicles. If they are just sitting in traffic then they are pumping out noxious fumes which do not disperse, however if they are just cruising along on an open road, then they offer no more pollution than a petrol driven vehicle.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Justina said:


> You should have tried Mexico City in the 80's when the pollution was ridiculously high and so high that one Xmas the kids were kept off school for over a month after the hols.
> The authorities brought in a scheme of a day without a car, the biggest scam ever, cos originally it was only for x months and then by 'popular consent', was continued for several years. Go to a poor section of the city and ask a few people. The solution for those who could afford a third car was to buy a third one and make sure it had the number plates that didn't coincide with the other two cars.
> I don't know what the law is here in Spain, but one great help could have been not allowing lorries to drive during the day. Of course the other is that diesal or deisal, not sure how to spell it, should be banned. I know it was promoted some years ago and indeed a lot of the buses in Spain run on it as do many cars.


I was in Bogotá!


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Justina said:


> You should have tried Mexico City in the 80's when the pollution was ridiculously high and so high that one Xmas the kids were kept off school for over a month after the hols.


Of course, the worst time of the year for pollution is still in the winter months, especially in January, when there is little or no rain to clean the air, and cold air inversions keep the pollution close to the ground. The air quality in Mexico City has greatly improved since the 1970s and 1980s. I remember living here back then and arriving home after a couple of hours spent downtown with black gunk under my nails! That hasn't been true in many years and is certainly not true these days. Here's a fairly objective look at the current situation: https://share.america.gov/mexico-citys-air-quality-challenge/


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

*Noxious fumes*



baldilocks said:


> Our car is a diesel, but so much depends on how it is used and the same applies to all vehicles. If they are just sitting in traffic then they are pumping out noxious fumes which do not disperse, however if they are just cruising along on an open road, then they offer no more pollution than a petrol driven vehicle.


Diesel, thank you. But there is the problem in Madrid. Many of the drivers are going towards the city and sitting in traffic jams. Watching the tele on Thursday and Friday morning, the number of cars crawling along, trying to leavd the city, reminded me of London at morning so called rush hour and to harp back to Mexico, just more and more cars.
Tell us about Bogota and did they solve the problem?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Justina said:


> Diesel, thank you. But there is the problem in Madrid. Many of the drivers are going towards the city and sitting in traffic jams. Watching the tele on Thursday and Friday morning, the number of cars crawling along, trying to leavd the city, reminded me of London at morning so called rush hour and to harp back to Mexico, just more and more cars.
> Tell us about Bogota and did they solve the problem?


Bog the smog? not while we were there but they later introduced "Transmilennio" which was supposed to replace all the old buses based on US truck bodies that spewed out stacks of smoke. The Transm were just newer buses running on a specially laid road surface and there seemed to be just as many old buses running around.

Interestingly we find here that, by comparison, the "rush hour" has negligible traffic until one gets right into the centre of Granada or Jaén


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

The roads in and out of Madrid a regularly at a standstill during rush hour as they are during peak times at the weekend.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Justina said:


> Of course the other is that diesal or deisal, not sure how to spell it, should be banned. I know it was promoted some years ago and indeed a lot of the buses in Spain run on it as do many cars.


A lot of city buses (I have certainly seen them in Granada and Sevilla) run on LPG these days - have they been introduced in Madrid too? I have seen lots of small and very quiet microbuses around Madrid when I've been there but didn't notice how they are powered.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> A lot of city buses (I have certainly seen them in Granada and Sevilla) run on LPG these days - have they been introduced in Madrid too? I have seen lots of small and very quiet microbuses around Madrid when I've been there but didn't notice how they are powered.


I noticed that many of the buses were powered by LPG in Madrid when there at the weekend. I was also interested to see the way the ramp came out for loading wheelchairs, much better than the driver having to unfold one manually.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

baldilocks said:


> I noticed that many of the buses were powered by LPG in Madrid when there at the weekend. I was also interested to see the way the ramp came out for loading wheelchairs, much better than the driver having to unfold one manually.


I thought they must be, if other Spanish cities have them.

We have those ramps on our local buses in Vélez-Málaga too, yes they are a big improvement. People can drive straight onto the bus on their disability scooter.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Justina said:


> You should have tried Mexico City in the 80's when the pollution was ridiculously high and so high that one Xmas the kids were kept off school for over a month after the hols.
> The authorities brought in a scheme of a day without a car, the biggest scam ever, cos originally it was only for x months and then by 'popular consent', was continued for several years. Go to a poor section of the city and ask a few people. The solution for those who could afford a third car was to buy a third one and make sure it had the number plates that didn't coincide with the other two cars.
> I don't know what the law is here in Spain, but one great help could have been not allowing lorries to drive during the day. Of course the other is that diesal or deisal, not sure how to spell it, should be banned. I know it was promoted some years ago and indeed a lot of the buses in Spain run on it as do many cars.


When I visited Mexico City in 1992 they said the pollution was the equivalent to smoking 20 cigarettes a day. So I happily did just that, convincing myself that it wouldn't be any worse than breathing the air.


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## el romeral (May 8, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> Our car is a diesel, but so much depends on how it is used and the same applies to all vehicles. If they are just sitting in traffic then they are pumping out noxious fumes which do not disperse, however if they are just cruising along on an open road, then they offer no more pollution than a petrol driven vehicle.


Sorry not correct. There is no such thing as a clean diesel engine. They pump out 20x more nitrous oxides than petrol engines and also copious amounts of equally health harming particulates. Some diesels (especially old ones - and new VW's lol) are worse than others but they all do it. 
The sooner the governments start focussing (and taxing) these outputs rather than CO2, the better. 
Here's a thing, how about annual taxes are paid based on the nitrous oxide and particle outputs measured during the ITV test? Right now, they seem to let all sorts of polluting diesel death traps through. Maybe if the owners were penalised financially they might either, get them running more efficiently, or switch to petrol. Either way, it would help the problem.

This pollution will continue every time we get these high pressure systems with no wind. The current measures taken to try to counteract the problem sound like a joke!

Rant over:smash::smash:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

el romeral said:


> Sorry not correct. There is no such thing as a clean diesel engine. They pump out 20x more nitrous oxides than petrol engines and also copious amounts of equally health harming particulates. Some diesels (especially old ones - and new VW's lol) are worse than others but they all do it.
> The sooner the governments start focussing (and taxing) these outputs rather than CO2, the better.
> Here's a thing, how about annual taxes are paid based on the nitrous oxide and particle outputs measured during the ITV test? Right now, they seem to let all sorts of polluting diesel death traps through. Maybe if the owners were penalised financially they might either, get them running more efficiently, or switch to petrol. Either way, it would help the problem.
> 
> ...


Instead of ranting, read post before making yourself look silly. Nobody said anything about a "clean" diesel engine and there is no disagreement about poorly maintained vehicles (both diesel and petrol) being 'dirtier!' The thread is about pollution in big cities resulting in smog and it matters very little how vehicles are taxed, because until mass-transit systems are properly installed and used there will always be pollution.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

el romeral said:


> Sorry not correct. There is no such thing as a clean diesel engine. They pump out 20x more nitrous oxides than petrol engines and also copious amounts of equally health harming particulates. Some diesels (especially old ones - and new VW's lol) are worse than others but they all do it.
> The sooner the governments start focussing (and taxing) these outputs rather than CO2, the better.
> Here's a thing, how about annual taxes are paid based on the nitrous oxide and particle outputs measured during the ITV test? Right now, they seem to let all sorts of polluting diesel death traps through. Maybe if the owners were penalised financially they might either, get them running more efficiently, or switch to petrol. Either way, it would help the problem.
> 
> ...


 Quite frankly, all of this talk pales into insignificance when you then see our governments bombing huge oil fields in Syria.

Jo xxx


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> I noticed that many of the buses were powered by LPG in Madrid when there at the weekend. I was also interested to see the way the ramp came out for loading wheelchairs, much better than the driver having to unfold one manually.


They've been in Madrid at least as long as I have (12 years) and I guess they'll gradually replace all the older diesels. They've also introduced one of those bike schemes where you can pick em up and drop em off elsewhere in town (although I hear a few have been spotted in Romania). I still find it all a bit superficial though - Madrid should be ideal for cycling around town all year round, but there aren't any dedicated bicycle lanes, and cycling on the roads among the Madrid traffic is plain dangerous.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Chopera said:


> They've been in Madrid at least as long as I have (12 years) and I guess they'll gradually replace all the older diesels. They've also introduced one of those bike schemes where you can pick em up and drop em off elsewhere in town (although I hear a few have been spotted in Romania). I still find it all a bit superficial though - Madrid should be ideal for cycling around town all year round, but there aren't any dedicated bicycle lanes, and cycling on the roads among the Madrid traffic is plain dangerous.


so they ride among the pedestrians. Saw one plough into a family group on Sunday evening which was awash with people including many small children - what makes matters worse is they can't be heard coming.


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## el romeral (May 8, 2012)

jojo said:


> Quite frankly, all of this talk pales into insignificance when you then see our governments bombing huge oil fields in Syria.
> 
> Jo xxx


Jeremy Corbyn, is that you?! :roll::roll::roll:


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

el romeral said:


> Jeremy Corbyn, is that you?! :roll::roll::roll:


 Hardly - I call him "the Morris Dancer" and I most certainly dont agree with anything I've heard him wimper out so far. 

But I dont see any logic in bombing oil fields, while spending a fortune sending our "prized" politicians to a summit on climate change and how to reduce our oil consumption

Jo xxx


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

jojo said:


> Hardly - I call him "the Morris Dancer" and I most certainly dont agree with anything I've heard him wimper out so far.
> 
> But I dont see any logic in bombing oil fields, while spending a fortune sending our "prized" politicians to a summit on climate change and how to reduce our oil consumption
> 
> Jo xxx


Well I guess bombing their oil fields is a way of reducing our consumption


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> so they ride among the pedestrians. Saw one plough into a family group on Sunday evening which was awash with people including many small children - what makes matters worse is they can't be heard coming.


A few years ago they built a park stretching several miles along the river, and decided to introduce just one mixed cycle/pedestrian/rollerblading/skateboarding/dogwalking path for everyone to "share", without any lines to separate one from the other. Once the accidents started the council's "solution" was to introduce a speed limit along the path, which of course nobody pays attention to.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

Are all cars here fitted with catalytic convertors?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Justina said:


> Are all cars here fitted with catalytic convertors?


I don't think so, especially the older ones. There are many cars around here which are more than 15 years old (the registration style changed in September 2000) but the quantity is reducing.

TBH, I haven't smelled many cats in Spain - they sometimes give off a smell of bad eggs.


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## Justina (Jan 25, 2013)

*Cars*



baldilocks said:


> I don't think so, especially the older ones. There are many cars around here which are more than 15 years old (the registration style changed in September 2000) but the quantity is reducing.
> 
> TBH, I haven't smelled many cats in Spain - they sometimes give off a smell of bad eggs.[/QUOTe
> 
> ...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Seems that some cities are planning to go a whole lot further in their restrictions



> Oslo’s new leftist city government said Monday it wants to ban private cars from the city centre by 2019 as part of a plan to slash greenhouse gas emissions.


Oslo moves to ban cars from city centre within four years | Environment | The Guardian


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

We are hitting a very difficult time for air quality, rainfall, pollution, crop failure etc.
Next week it seems that the rain we were forcast has been whittled down to one day in Madrid and by Wednesday max. temperatures will go up to 20º again. The average for December is 10º. (according to this from AEMET Valores climatológicos normales - Agencia Estatal de Meteorología - AEMET. Gobierno de España
The weather will be warm and dry all over Spain it seems.
Hard to believe that Christmas is just around the corner.


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