# Your view - moving to Spain and Work



## kingleonidas (Jun 28, 2014)

Hi all, 

I have spent significant time this year seeking opportunities with little or no response (not even a no!) from advertisements on the various job boards - with only a couple of interviews which turned out to not be a fit (either way). I spoke with someone the other day who was of the opinion that to find a job in Southern Spain (I assumed he meant anywhere) it required you to 'be there' - I wanted to find out members opinions on whether this is usually the case, I personally have a hard time believing that given I wasn't really asked whether I was already there or not!

Im starting out 'cold' - i.e. I have no network in the UK so all applications are from scratch. I even tried to look for UK companies with satelite offices in Spain so I could get an 'in' by working in the UK and getting posted out there, to no avail.

Be very interested to hear of other 'professionals' who were able to find work in another country and transfer, and typical times of how long they were looking for before opps came up. I am going to take a break now and find contracts in the UK as I am told that July/Aug is generally quiet (I guess like the UK) in Spain as everyone goes on holiday.

I am an IT Manager with 20 yrs in the IT world.

Many thanks!

Rob


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

kingleonidas said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have spent significant time this year seeking opportunities with little or no response (not even a no!) from advertisements on the various job boards - with only a couple of interviews which turned out to not be a fit (either way). I spoke with someone the other day who was of the opinion that to find a job in Southern Spain (I assumed he meant anywhere) it required you to 'be there' - I wanted to find out members opinions on whether this is usually the case, I personally have a hard time believing that given I wasn't really asked whether I was already there or not!
> 
> ...


Here's a recent thread which didn't get many replies but it does talk about IT
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...73977-what-kind-jobs-available-your-area.html


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

kingleonidas said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have spent significant time this year seeking opportunities with little or no response (not even a no!) from advertisements on the various job boards - with only a couple of interviews which turned out to not be a fit (either way). I spoke with someone the other day who was of the opinion that to find a job in Southern Spain (I assumed he meant anywhere) it required you to 'be there' - I wanted to find out members opinions on whether this is usually the case, I personally have a hard time believing that given I wasn't really asked whether I was already there or not!
> 
> ...


Obviously, you might stand more of a chance if you were actually here and fluent in Spanish and already working in IT here, just as those criteria would affect your getting a job in the UK.

Unless you are here and in work with a verifiable record of your abilities, you are, in fact, just another IT person. Your current position of "IT manager" is meaningless to a Spanish company. 

15 years ago, I was Project Manager for a computer audit company and could have walked into a job in Madrid, or Amsterdam, or Brussels, or Vienna, or Geneva, or Zurich or... with one of the clients whose IT systems we had audited simply because I pulled the MD's butt out of the mire and had proved my capabilities.


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

The only people I know here who work in IT already had jobs with international companies before they moved, and now work from home.


----------



## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

When I first moved to Spain, I could not even get an interview without a full Spanish CV, a Spanish address and phone number. Applications made before all this was in place were simply ignored.

Now that I am planning to return to Spain after some time away, I have started to apply for a few jobs. Even though I have 10 years experience in Spain, a Spanish address and phone number, I am still finding it difficult. I strongly suspect that this is because I have not yet returned.

In short, yes, I think "being there" is very, very important.


----------



## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

kingleonidas said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have spent significant time this year seeking opportunities with little or no response (not even a no!) from advertisements on the various job boards - with only a couple of interviews which turned out to not be a fit (either way). I spoke with someone the other day who was of the opinion that to find a job in Southern Spain (I assumed he meant anywhere) it required you to 'be there' - I wanted to find out members opinions on whether this is usually the case, I personally have a hard time believing that given I wasn't really asked whether I was already there or not!
> 
> ...


I found IT work in Madrid after arriving in Madrid. I've also met people who were transferred over to Madrid with their company, but I've never met anyone who got a job in Spain while living in the UK. I suspect employers feel more confident that applicants are genuine if they already live in Spain, and have their social security already sorted out. If you have skills which are in high demand then you might have more luck I guess but, to be frank, southern Spain isn't known for being a hotbed for the latest IT techniques.


----------



## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Hi Op,

If you want southern Spain you're probably going to have to try Gibraltar (which is not southern Spain, I know, but is close). There are plenty of IT jobs in Barcelona and Madrid but the VAST majority are going to want some language skills. Do you speak any other languages?

Jobs requiring certain in-demand IT skills are sometimes available to English-only speakers but generic IT managers don't fall into that bracket.

As for the question.... do you have to be here. In Madrid and Barcelona that's going to help enormously but in southern Spain, I don't think it matters. It's not where the jobs are.


----------



## Leper (May 12, 2010)

I find it difficult to believe that Kingleonidas believes he has a chance in Spain. Let's face the harsh reality that while property prices are on the favourable turn (albeit slightly) the jobs situation is still dropping at a rate of knots. 

We're looking at the Greeks and their attempts to remain within the Eurozone which they probably will by the skin of their teeth and we all know that it is only a matter of a short time before Greece defaults again. Spain is just up the road from being another Greece and will of course be somewhat saved largely by Expats.

I've see too many battle hardened expats in Spain fail. These have years of experience in Spain and have been on the breadline for years. They are dropping one by one and very shortly the UK will have more fluent Spanish speaking Brits than Spain.

Anybody with a grain of sense would dismiss Spain (as the politicians say "at this point in time") as a source of decent income.


----------



## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Hi Leper, 

I often hear Brits saying how lazy "we" are about languages. I understand why we are like that, we speak the most spoken language in the world, so we can afford to be lazy (until we go and live elsewhere, then we shouldn't be). If a foreigner decides to learn a language without any thought he/she selects English, it's the ultimate no-brainer, as they say. If a Brit who doesn't live abroad decides to learn a language it's a toss-up between French, Spanish, German and possibly one or two others.

So, I agree with you when you say you find it difficult to believe but for different reasons. With me, it's wondering what makes someone think they can go into a professional environment in a foreign country without knowing the local language. I'm not talking about the Op here because for all I know he speaks fluent Spanish, but we do see a few people who don't seem to think that the language will be a barrier. Presumably these are people who holiday in Spain and, because they can order a beer and plate of food in English, assume that everybody speaks English.

That said, there is some availability for in-demand IT skills and it seems they are ready to take English-only speakers, probably because they stand little chance of filling these positions any other way. There was a job in Alicante advertised a couple of weeks ago for someone to do an improvement programme in an IT service delivery organisation, but it appears to have gone. They're few and far between outside of the two big cities.

The battle-hardened Brits you speak of are those on the costas "making do" in a tough environment. There have always been Brits in the big cities in professional jobs and they've survived, but they are a tiny tiny fraction of the working population (the professional population, even) and as you say, it's far more rare to see one in Spain than a professional Spaniard in Britain, of whom there are many.


All people like the Op can do is keep looking for an opportunity and hope one comes up. And in the meantime, LEARN SPANISH.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Horlics said:


> Hi Leper,
> 
> I often hear Brits saying how lazy "we" are about languages. I understand why we are like that, *we speak the most spoken language* in the world,


Sorry but we don't. First is Chinese, second is Spanish, then English. When you hear some Brits talk, one can be in doubt as to whether it is a first language or just something they are picking up as they go along.


----------



## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

I thought Chinese was the most spoken first language but English was the most spoken in terms over worldwide speakers when including those whose second language it is (but I can't be a***d checking). 

I don't understand your second point.

And don't be sorry


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Horlics said:


> I thought Chinese was the most spoken first language but English was the most spoken in terms over worldwide speakers when including those whose second language it is (but I can't be a***d checking).
> 
> I don't understand your second point.
> 
> And don't be sorry


it is, if you include those who speak English as a second language - you're correct 

841 million English speakers v 489million Spanish speakers

the only reason Mandarin beats English is because China is the most populated country in the world


----------



## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

English is THE business language of the World. That would be the reason Asia is quite literally a wash with ESL teachers!


----------



## xolo (May 25, 2014)

I understand there are more English speakers in China than in the US. 

According to the Cervantes Institute Spanish is #2 in the world in terms of native speakers. It does seem to depend on who is counting, however, as sometimes Hindi or some other language is #2.

English is also the technology language which should help the OP. 

But I briefly glanced at jobserve and, my god, Spain has very, very few technology jobs (for the entire country). I would think you would need a full Spanish CV, language skills, and work permit to even try, unless you are absolutely unique in some way.


----------



## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Yes. It appears knowing SAP makes you almost unique. It's been one of the hot skills for almost 20 years!


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

más chueco que la fayuca said:


> I understand there are more English speakers in China than in the US.


Oh, really? I wonder how good their English is, or do most of them speak some form of Chinglish?


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Horlics said:


> Yes. It appears knowing SAP makes you almost unique. It's been one of the hot skills for almost 20 years!


I'm not usually renowned for being dim, but wtf is SAP?


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Isla Verde said:


> Oh, really? I wonder how good their English is, or do most of them speak some form of Chinglish?


I think there are millions of learners of English in China. For those who are interested see the Jay Walker video below. Short (less than 5 mins) and very interesting especially for TEFL teachers and also for those interested in the Chinese
Jay walker explains why 2 billion people are learning English
Jay Walker: The world's English mania | TED Talk | TED.com
I wonder when you are classified as a speaker of a language as opposed to a learner of that language?


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> I'm not usually renowned for being dim, but wtf is SAP?


No idea, but it's often asked for in job ads!


----------



## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> I'm not usually renowned for being dim, but wtf is SAP?


It's a type of software package that businesses use to manage their financial and personnel data and operations.


----------



## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I think there are millions of learners of English in China. For those who are interested see the Jay Walker video below. Short (less than 5 mins) and very interesting especially for TEFL teachers and also for those interested in the Chinese
> Jay walker explains why 2 billion people are learning English
> Jay Walker: The world's English mania | TED Talk | TED.com
> I wonder when you are classified as a speaker of a language as opposed to a learner of that language?


TEFL teachers with a DEGREE. &, as a rule, along with a degree (in anything!) you also need to be from one of the prefered Englsih speaking countries; America is usually top of the list!, then England, Australia/NZ, South Africa to be granted a work visa. 
I started to watch the video, he got on my wick very quckly! He reminded me of one of my kids humanities teachers at an International School in Asia! So apologies if I missed the point!!
Mania?? I think its just business savvy.
I can only speak for my husbands line of work but if you have a French oil company building an oil platform in South Korea with a Romanian paint superintendant, an English surveyor, an Indian project manager and a Croatian site manager, not to mention the thousands of Koreans employed at the yard, there has to be a way of communicating! & that's in English.


----------



## netkey65 (May 19, 2015)

Hi I agree with Baldilocks on this. We are moving for a trial next week, bought a house (risk yes) and will try and juggle IT from Alicante back to the offices in Glasgow all summer from this home. We think we can do it hence buying a house first. Next is to relocate us 4 (2 kids) at some point be it Autumn/Xmas or next Easter.

It helps to have the "job" and relocating should be the easier part of it.


Good luck with the search.

Grant


----------



## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

baldilocks said:


> I'm not usually renowned for being dim, but wtf is SAP?


IT system. German company. Two companies have thrashed it out for enterprise software over the past 20+ years (with a few that fell away over the years), these guys and Oracle.

For as long as I can remember SAP jobs have been easy to find and paid very well.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

angil said:


> TEFL teachers with a DEGREE. &, as a rule, along with a degree (in anything!) you also need to be from one of the prefered Englsih speaking countries; America is usually top of the list!, then England, Australia/NZ, South Africa to be granted a work visa.
> I started to watch the video, he got on my wick very quckly! He reminded me of one of my kids humanities teachers at an International School in Asia! So apologies if I missed the point!!
> Mania?? I think its just business savvy.
> I can only speak for my husbands line of work but if you have a French oil company building an oil platform in South Korea with a Romanian paint superintendant, an English surveyor, an Indian project manager and a Croatian site manager, not to mention the thousands of Koreans employed at the yard, there has to be a way of communicating! & that's in English.


Not that it's got anything to do with the thread but...
Yes, I think you missed the point!
Why you wrote


> "TEFL teachers with a DEGREE"


 I have no idea. I only said the the video was of interest to TEFL teachers, and you don't need to have a degree to watch the video. 


> you also need to be from one of the prefered Englsih speaking countries; America is usually top of the list!, then England, Australia/NZ, South Africa to be granted a work visa.


I can only asume that you're talking about teaching in China because that's not the case for teaching in Spain where British teachers are favoured and you don't need a visa
Jay Walker got on your wick for whatever reason so you didn't get to the point of the video which was
_... So is English mania good or bad? Is English a tsunami, washing away other languages? Not likely. English is the world's second language. Your native language is your life. But with English you can become part of a wider conversation -- a global conversation about global problems, like climate change or poverty, or hunger or disease_
So judging from your last sentence you agree with him.


----------



## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

más chueco que la fayuca said:


> I understand there are more English speakers in China than in the US.
> 
> According to the Cervantes Institute Spanish is #2 in the world in terms of native speakers. It does seem to depend on who is counting, however, as sometimes Hindi or some other language is #2.
> 
> ...


jobserve has always advertised mainly sap jobs for some reason. And yes they pay well. But jobserve is not what Spanish people use to find IT jobs. Try infojobs or linkedin and you'll see many more. One thing I have noticed is that job adverts requiring latest skills tend to hang around for months on end. I get the impression companies really struggle to find people with experience in advanced or recent technologies.


----------



## xolo (May 25, 2014)

The world is indeed crazy to learn English. It's emblematic of why many of the world's 7,000-odd languages are going extinct over the next few generations (or less). Our friend's daughter, who is French, is with us now and I just learned that in France public schools _everyone _takes English and the elective choice is for the 3rd language. It makes me feel somewhat different for concentrating on Spanish, which is definitely not an economically driven decision.


----------



## JonathanBignell (Jul 17, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> Sorry but we don't. First is Chinese, second is Spanish, then English. When you hear some Brits talk, one can be in doubt as to whether it is a first language or just something they are picking up as they go along.


According to the figures from last year you are correct that Mandarin is the most spoken language, however, English comes in 2nd with over 500 million speakers and Spanish is 4th with some 392 million speakers. Interestingly Hindustani is 3rd but rapidly catching English and predicted to overtake it in the next few years.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

JonathanBignell said:


> According to the figures from last year you are correct that Mandarin is the most spoken language, however, English comes in 2nd with over 500 million speakers and Spanish is 4th with some 392 million speakers. Interestingly Hindustani is 3rd but rapidly catching English and predicted to overtake it in the next few years.


I think it vey much depends on what parametres you put up. Are you talking about


native speakers
native speakers + those who have learnt ESL
native speakers + those who have learnt ESL + current learners of a C1/ C2 level
?????????

Which ever way you look at it there are a lot of English speakers and a lot of people learning English (and to a far higher level than English native speakers will ever learn their language)

And something that is taken as read is that the business language of the world is English, as mentioned earlier by another poster.


----------



## JonathanBignell (Jul 17, 2012)

Have to admit that I didn't delve into the census data that deeply, however, the figures may well be those for English + ESL, and the same for the other languages.

And absolutely, a lot of English learners will learn the language to a higher standard than native speakers do - something that has become very obvious this very week as my wife is doing a TEFL course as part of our plan to move to Spain - I don't remember 12 tenses in English even when I was taking the A level, although perhaps my memory is failing me!


----------



## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

JonathanBignell said:


> . . .
> 
> And absolutely, a lot of English learners will learn the language to a higher standard than native speakers do - something that has become very obvious this very week as my wife is doing a TEFL course as part of our plan to move to Spain - I don't remember 12 tenses in English even when I was taking the A level, although perhaps my memory is failing me!


Keep in mind that learning about a language (for example, that there are 12 tenses in English) is not the same thing as being able to communicate effectively and correctly in it on the level of a native speaker.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

JonathanBignell said:


> Have to admit that I didn't delve into the census data that deeply, however, the figures may well be those for English + ESL, and the same for the other languages.
> 
> And absolutely, a lot of English learners will learn the language to a higher standard than native speakers do - something that has become very obvious this very week as my wife is doing a TEFL course as part of our plan to move to Spain - I don't remember 12 tenses in English even when I was taking the A level, although perhaps my memory is failing me!


The thing is we, as native speakers, don't learn the language in the same way as a non native speaker does. We don't need to know how many tenses there are, nor the names of those tenses. (Actually, I don't believe that a non native speaker needs to know either necessarily) 
However, Spanish children do study all these tenses, and it makes 99% of them hate their "lengua" classes


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

However, back to the OP
There are IT jobs posted here, but none in the south of Spain and I have no idea if they are "good" jobs or not.
Search for Jobs In Information Technology - Find Jobs in Spain | 43314819 with Tip Top Job


----------

