# Inter-racial (Christian-Muslim) Marriage Questions



## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Just a quick (although somewhat long-winded) question on behalf of an English friend of mine. 

Neil (that’s not his real name) has been dating an Egyptian girl for around a year, they do make a great couple, she’s a Muslim, although doesn’t practice and if anything is a practising Christian, however her parents – esp. her mother - are particularly religious and they don’t know that she’s been baptised into Christianity, as far as they’re aware she’s 100% Muslim, she’s 31 or so and still lives at home, her father is in Egypt with his latest 23 year old wife. They now want to move things on in their relationship and are talking about getting married; she says that the only way that this can happen is if he converts to Islam. Now Neil, although anything but religious is very hesitant about this, she says it’s just “a bit of paper” and mentions something about the Egyptian laws re. passports, sponsorship by father, that sort of thing as a barrier to their impending nuptials. It doesn’t help that he’ll have to ask her father for the girl’s hand, and his first question would not be can you take care and love my daughter, but “Are you Muslim ?” If the answer is no, the follow up will be “Will you convert?” If Neil refuses, then there’s no wedding, at least not with the father’s blessing and that makes a huge difference in Egyptian law (Sharia or otherwise).

As I see it there are a few issues here – let’s forget about the love thing, that’s a given – these are; what are the ramifications and the process by which “conversion” happens, can you, once converted, convert back– the pair of them this time (yes they do know what the Koran says about this). They also want to stay in this country for the time being, can they not get married - here or abroad - as different faiths – esp. re. Egyptian law as mentioned above? 

Can anyone shed any light on the above; it would seem strange that any religion would have an “Omnipotent Being” as its head who would deny two people of their love for each other just because historically they were born into different so called faiths.

BTW I don’t want this to end up as a “My religion’s better than your religion” spat, just a few questions on behalf of two people who love each other.

Thanking you in advance.


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

Andy Capp said:


> Just a quick (although somewhat long-winded) question on behalf of an English friend of mine.
> 
> Neil (that’s not his real name) has been dating an Egyptian girl for around a year, they do make a great couple, she’s a Muslim, although doesn’t practice and if anything is a practising Christian, however her parents – esp. her mother - are particularly religious and they don’t know that she’s been baptised into Christianity, as far as they’re aware she’s 100% Muslim, she’s 31 or so and still lives at home, her father is in Egypt with his latest 23 year old wife. They now want to move things on in their relationship and are talking about getting married; she says that the only way that this can happen is if he converts to Islam. Now Neil, although anything but religious is very hesitant about this, she says it’s just “a bit of paper” and mentions something about the Egyptian laws re. passports, sponsorship by father, that sort of thing as a barrier to their impending nuptials. It doesn’t help that he’ll have to ask her father for the girl’s hand, and his first question would not be can you take care and love my daughter, but “Are you Muslim ?” If the answer is no, the follow up will be “Will you convert?” If Neil refuses, then there’s no wedding, at least not with the father’s blessing and that makes a huge difference in Egyptian law (Sharia or otherwise).
> 
> ...



Putting religion and personal opinion aside, if her father's blessing is not important for her, they can get married in a non-muslim country without being converted to Christian from her side or Muslim from his side. Here, in UAE she will be hanged if she wants to convert to Christian and yes, as per Islam, Muslim man can marry non-Muslim woman, but it can't be vice versa. Man must convert otherwise do it in another country. My Uzbek friend married to a French guy in France as here in UAE the Court refused for the same reasons.

If they really love each others and will not stop in front of everything, than getting married in UK will be a good solution for them, but let your friend expect that in future he might have big family issues. If he decides in some time to divorce his wife or cheat on her, etc, poor girl will be destroyed. Both has to understand that she gives up her family for this marriage (if as I understand she will not be supported and she will go ahead with it, they might stop communicating to her).

Any further questions, please PM me


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## Muhannad (Mar 22, 2010)

Putting religion aside, the ideal solution if he wants to be married in UAE is to convert to a Muslim, on paper. I do not think anyone would "audit" his Islam. 

Excuse my limited knowledge, but I see no implications on his conversion to Islam ( and staying a Muslim on paper in UAE) as it doesn't affect him personally and professionally here or back in UK, where the religion one holds is not relevant or declared in any official documents. 

That's as far as legalities go....

I think the most important remark was made by Ella 



> Both has to understand that she gives up her family for this marriage


I personally would not support giving up on family to get married. I have seen many marriages fail although a result of great love stories. The risk is simply too high, and I understand that this may be a source of attraction , but we need to be careful in making the right decision for us and our partners, regardless of how we feel. However, this remains my personal view.

As far as religion go, it's very simple, we all have our different beliefs which we choose to live by. I do not expect everyone to agree with Islam as I'm also not expected to agree with everything in Christianity or other religions. 

So Andy, with specific reference to your comment



> Can anyone shed any light on the above; it would seem strange that any religion would have an “Omnipotent Being” as its head who would deny two people of their love for each other just because historically they were born into different so called faiths.


Let's be clear, Islam and I would assume Christianity does not do that. 

Being born to a religion does not mean choosing a religion. If she has never chosen Islam and choose Christianity as an adult, then she has never " converted" in my view. Regardless of what the law says , as laws are different in different countries. 

But if one chooses Islam, Christianity, Buddhism...etc.. then he/she is expected to acknowledge all its rules and ideally abide by them. That's a personal view. And one of Islam laws is that you can not as a woman marry a man of another religon. You may want to search online for the rationale behind that from an islamic point of view, challenge and debate reliable sources, but ultimately, do not expect to be convinced, you shouldn't be, as with all the other belifes of Islam since you arent Muslim.


Moreover, and simply, the issue here is not about religion, but about whether the family is accepting her choice of religion. The same family issues are faced by expats wishing to convert to Islam. 

Coming back to what we do for love: 

Love is very important and is a terrible, terrible thing to give up or lose. However, if we have a belief, or a principle/value that we live by, and that we choose wisely, I do not agree with giving that up for love. The only reason we would be giving up a bile/principle/value, is by being completely convinced that it's wrong, not just because we love someone.

For instance, if one of my principles is not to marry an alcoholic ( my ex was) , then I wouldn't give that up just cause I love her. The most I would do is try to change that, but if it doesn't happen, then it doesn't happen.

This is different than sacrifice btw: for example, if I need to move to a country and work for half of my salary for the woman I love, that is sacrifice and it's different than giving up a belief/principle.


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## MiraEvans (Mar 29, 2010)

Andy , 
am Muslim and married to a christian and to marry me he had to convert to islam in dubai which it is only peace of paper , what i did is i showed my family the paper and told them that he is studying islam and he will practice islam whenever he is ready . of course he never did he is realy love each other they can work it


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## dizzyizzy (Mar 30, 2008)

MiraEvans said:


> Andy ,
> am Muslim and married to a christian and to marry me he had to convert to islam in dubai which it is only peace of paper , what i did is i showed my family the paper and told them that he is studying islam and he will practice islam whenever he is ready . of course he never did he is realy love each other they can work it


Same thing as one of my Indian colleagues just did so he could marry his Iranian wife here in Dubai and be able to sponsor her. 

To Muhannad: wow, what a beautifully explained answer and thanks for that. I think is information like that that can help to reduce the sense of separateness between people from different religions as it does make a big difference to read rational and objective from people who are clearly practising a religion and are well informed, but do respect others and make an effort to share their knowledge without imposing views. We need more of that especially here in the Middle East. :clap2:


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## Muhannad (Mar 22, 2010)

dizzyizzy said:


> Same thing as one of my Indian colleagues just did so he could marry his Iranian wife here in Dubai and be able to sponsor her.
> 
> To Muhannad: wow, what a beautifully explained answer and thanks for that. I think is information like that that can help to reduce the sense of separateness between people from different religions as it does make a big difference to read rational and objective from people who are clearly practising a religion and are well informed, but do respect others and make an effort to share their knowledge without imposing views. We need more of that especially here in the Middle East. :clap2:


Thanks for the compliment. Appreciate it.


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## Jynxgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

This was a very interesting topic. Interesting to read. ​


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Thanks for the replies, and everyone has so far been very civil.

I'll pass on the details/url...

Anyone got anything more to add?


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## SBP (Jan 4, 2010)

On a purely theological question, as "God" (regardelss of faith) is omnipotent, do they all sit next to each other "up there"? Or does each faith have its own heaven and they aren't all interlinked?


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

SBP said:


> On a purely theological question, as "God" (regardelss of faith) is omnipotent, do they all sit next to each other "up there"? Or does each faith have its own heaven and they aren't all interlinked?


who are they all? gods? maybe in hindu religion there are many gods but in Islam and Christianity there is only One with one heaven and one hell


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## Last_one_out (Mar 17, 2010)

I know a Brit who is going through this in Indonesia. He has to convert, which he will do for love, but it is clear to all (well, to their family and close friends anyway) that it is only 'on paper'. 

He won't be having the 'anatomical change', and there will be beer in the evening following their muslim wedding, so he's not hiding his 'old habits' that much.


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## SBP (Jan 4, 2010)

Ella_and_Yousef said:


> who are they all? gods? maybe in hindu religion there are many gods but in Islam and Christianity there is only One with one heaven and one hell


So Allah is the same as the Christian God. i.e the father of Jesus? Thought they were different??


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Last_one_out said:


> I know a Brit who is going through this in Indonesia. He has to convert, which he will do for love, but it is clear to all (well, to their family and close friends anyway) that it is only 'on paper'.
> 
> He won't be having the 'anatomical change', and there will be beer in the evening following their muslim wedding, so he's not hiding his 'old habits' that much.


'anatomical change'?????  What's that then?


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

SBP said:


> So Allah is the same as the Christian God. i.e the father of Jesus? Thought they were different??


In Islam Jesus is seen as a Prophet, not the son of god, but theoretically the "Omnipotent Being" is the same.


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## SBP (Jan 4, 2010)

Andy Capp said:


> In Islam Jesus is seen as a Prophet, not the son of god, but theoretically the "Omnipotent Being" is the same.



So Jesus is seen as the same as Mohammed then as both are prophets?


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## Last_one_out (Mar 17, 2010)

Andy Capp said:


> 'anatomical change'?????  What's that then?


He is apparatnly supposed to have a certain bit of excess skin removed.... he obviously isn't keen after having if for 30-something years, especially given the pain/risks involved at that age.

Supposedly, the Imam is allowed to check, but is _very_ unlikely to. He lives on the border of a region that has brought in the strictest Sharia Law, so this may be more than your friend is expected to do.


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## SBP (Jan 4, 2010)

I have always thought being circumcised as big headed as chopping a bit off before you know how big it is going to get seems rather confident..............


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## Muhannad (Mar 22, 2010)

SBP said:


> So Jesus is seen as the same as Mohammed then as both are prophets?



We believe that Jesus, like Mohammad, is prophet as Andy has mentioned, also believe in Moses, Ibraham and other prophets. 

Believing in Jesus and prophets is a mandate in islam. We believe in the same God as well, but in case of Islam we do not believe that he had a son.


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## SBP (Jan 4, 2010)

Muhannad said:


> We believe that Jesus, like Mohammad, is prophet as Andy has mentioned, also believe in Moses, Ibraham and other prophets.
> 
> Believing in Jesus and prophets is a mandate in islam. We believe in the same God as well, but in case of Islam we do not believe that he had a son.


Ah OK, much clearer


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## Dannysigma (Feb 22, 2009)

SBP said:


> I have always thought being circumcised as big headed as chopping a bit off before you know how big it is going to get seems rather confident..............


I wouldn't be too bothered. It's no skin off my nose. (Boom boom)


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## Vmoses (Sep 14, 2009)

Andy Capp said:


> Just a quick (although somewhat long-winded) question on behalf of an English friend of mine.
> 
> Neil (that’s not his real name) has been dating an Egyptian girl for around a year, they do make a great couple, she’s a Muslim, although doesn’t practice and if anything is a practising Christian, however her parents – esp. her mother - are particularly religious and they don’t know that she’s been baptised into Christianity, as far as they’re aware she’s 100% Muslim, she’s 31 or so and still lives at home, her father is in Egypt with his latest 23 year old wife. They now want to move things on in their relationship and are talking about getting married; she says that the only way that this can happen is if he converts to Islam. Now Neil, although anything but religious is very hesitant about this, she says it’s just “a bit of paper” and mentions something about the Egyptian laws re. passports, sponsorship by father, that sort of thing as a barrier to their impending nuptials. It doesn’t help that he’ll have to ask her father for the girl’s hand, and his first question would not be can you take care and love my daughter, but “Are you Muslim ?” If the answer is no, the follow up will be “Will you convert?” If Neil refuses, then there’s no wedding, at least not with the father’s blessing and that makes a huge difference in Egyptian law (Sharia or otherwise).
> 
> ...



I missed the part where this is inter-racial!!!!! 

As mentioned - they can get married abroad and come back as husband and wife.

It is a bit odd to see expats in Dubai who are not aware Allah is God or that in Islam Jesus is a prophet. It's like someone immigrating to the west and not knowing about Christmas or Easter and the roots of those celebrations. Expat bubble i guess.


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## SBP (Jan 4, 2010)

All part of the learning curve. Depends on how religious you are to begin with I suppose


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Vmoses said:


> I missed the part where this is inter-racial!!!!!
> 
> As mentioned - they can get married abroad and come back as husband and wife.
> 
> It is a bit odd to see expats in Dubai who are not aware Allah is God or that in Islam Jesus is a prophet. It's like someone immigrating to the west and not knowing about Christmas or Easter and the roots of those celebrations. Expat bubble i guess.



Who says the poster is not aware? In the UAE it is not so simple to marry if people are of different religions, so perhaps you should consider your own lack of knowledge before trying to put others down?

-


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## Andy Capp (Oct 5, 2008)

Vmoses said:


> *I missed the part where this is inter-racial!!!!!*
> 
> *As mentioned - they can get married abroad and come back as husband and wife.*
> 
> *It is a bit odd to see expats in Dubai who are not aware Allah is God or that in Islam Jesus is a prophet. It's like someone immigrating to the west and not knowing about Christmas or Easter and the roots of those celebrations. Expat bubble i guess*.


*Egyptian (Arab) and English.*

*The issue is about her family rejecting her because he won't change religion.*

*As I mentioned either later in this thread or elsewhere, I'm very aware of islam - and other religions - the fact that I don't believe in any of them isn't the issue.*

And Neil is fully aware of these issues too, as I said, this has nothing to do with religion bashing, more to do with people (her parent's) reaction to Neil and the fact he won't convert.

Elphaba, I concur.


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## M.Sharaf (Nov 19, 2008)

in two lines: 

Man Christian +Women Musilm = Men Need to Convirt to Islam other wise the court will not accpet the marriage ...
Man Muslim +Women Christian = NO ONE CARES they Can get Married ..

if the girl declare in court that she changed her religion from ISLAM the Sharia LAW will consider her guilty as its a SIN to CONVERT FROM ISLAM ...
so its better for her to keep on quite about this.

dont ask me about the point behind it ,as i have no clue ... 


hope its helpfull ..
Sharaf


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## Free_Spirit (Aug 30, 2009)

M.Sharaf said:


> in two lines:
> 
> Man Christian +Women Musilm = Men Need to Convirt to Islam other wise the court will not accpet the marriage ...
> Man Muslim +Women Christian = NO ONE CARES they Can get Married ..
> ...


Well, there is a reason for that too. If you find it correct for Muslim women to convert for every men they marry, why don't you accept the idea of Christian men to convert for their beloved ones? Islam allows Muslim man to marry Christian woman because in case of such marriage 99% of kids will still be Muslim. If Muslim woman converts to Chistian for her husband, their kids will obviously be Christians. That's it. Very easy.


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## Vmoses (Sep 14, 2009)

Andy Capp said:


> *Egyptian (Arab) and English.*
> 
> *The issue is about her family rejecting her because he won't change religion.*
> 
> ...


Sorry Andy - I wasn't clear. I was referring to SBP and the lack of basic knowledge about Islam(Sorry SBP - at least now you've learned) and not you. I didn't make that distinction.

I'm not sure that Arab is a race - an ethnic group for sure. When Arab-Americans are filling out their census forms in the States the vast majority put down white. Go figure.

Religion is part of the core identity in the mid-east - it's integral to life - so I'm not surprised by her parent's reaction.


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## M.Sharaf (Nov 19, 2008)

Ella_and_Yousef said:


> Well, there is a reason for that too. If you find it correct for Muslim women to convert for every men they marry, why don't you accept the idea of Christian men to convert for their beloved ones? Islam allows Muslim man to marry Christian woman because in case of such marriage 99% of kids will still be Muslim. If Muslim woman converts to Chistian for her husband, their kids will obviously be Christians. That's it. Very easy.


i know what you saying ,but in here i tried to Help Andy . 
i dont like discussing religion as it get alot for misunderstanding , witch is not i was looking to explain up their ..

Cheers ,


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## Brucie (Dec 29, 2011)

*Help*

Hi all, I know this is an old thread but I could do with some guidance. I want to convert to Islam in order to marry my girlfriend. Her parents do not know that we are in a relationship. I am a white English man, my girlfriend is Indonesian. 

I work in an Arab country and am learning about what muslim's beliefs are. I feel I am ready to convert but do not know where to go to do it. Someone mentioned Dubai, where, how etc. Any info will be greatly welcomed as I am planning to ask for her fathers blessing in March when we next see each other. It is a frieghtening prospect as I think he will take one look at me and make his opinion based on me not being born into Islam. 

I look forward to hearing some advice


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## Jow Arif (Dec 29, 2011)

Hi,

You should try talking to a local mosque leader, as you may be able to simply have a Muslim wedding blessing that by its nature will act as full or partial conversion to Islam.

Any local mosque should be able to advise you on the right steps to take, and mosque involvement may help you to gain acceptance from your would-be father in law. 

As you are in the Arab world already, my advice would be to approach an English speaking mosque leader, otherwise your needs could get lost in translation.

Good luck.

Jow.


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