# Entering UK without EEA family permit



## AceTravis (Apr 26, 2015)

I finally made the move to the UK and traveled into Stansted with my wife who is exercising her treaty rights in London. We weren't able to obtain an EEA FP in time so we figured we would get the EEA Dependent Stamp at the border. We had all of the documentation we thought we would need: passports, marriage certificate, pay slips, etc. At passport control, we told the officer I would be applying for the RC immediately and would be traveling to Italy in a month for her father's birthday. The officer told me to put that I would be staying for 1 month on the landing card and then took our certificate and passports and talked to his supervisor. When he came back he said he was unable to give the stamp because I had spent so much time in the UK over the last year without applying for residence. 

The thing is, the last year I've been traveling all over Europe including the UK, I wasn't married to my wife at the time, and I never overstayed my tourist visa. My wife and I were married in June. He then stamped my passport with this: Leave to enter for/until: September 18th, 2015. That is the day we are leaving to visit her father in Italy. So now I have no stamp stating I can work and I'm scared that re-entering the UK will be difficult with this September 18th Leave to Remain stamp in my passport. 

Please any suggestions would be greatly appreciate. I'm freaking out a bit.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

Why did you not obtain the Family permit which we suggested to you back in June? We said getting the Family Permit would avoid hassles at the border. The Immigration official obviously did not believe you were eligible for entry under the "exercising treaty rights basis" 

Is you wife still working in the UK? She has an Italian passport does she not?

There is no stamp saying you can work - the family permit allows you entry to the UK and with it you are allowed to work. Getting the Resident Permit provides additional proof of your ability to work.

How about going to Italy and applying from there?


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## AceTravis (Apr 26, 2015)

Yes, she is exercising her treaty rights (she has been working in London for 8 years now). We didn't get the FP because there was a mistake on our marriage certificate and we didn't get it till just a few days before our flight. We were scared we weren't going to get it at all but it arrived in the mail do we could present it at the border.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Apply for EEA family permit in Italy (you don't need to be resident there) and don't come to UK until you get it. May take 2-3 weeks. Your wife can return but should ideally accompany you when you eventually arrive in UK. It means going to Rome for biometrics. Don't try to get EEA Dependant ink stamp at the border in view of the problems you have had. Details of your problems are likely to be on the database and will be accessible to any border officer by placing your passport in a reader.


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## AceTravis (Apr 26, 2015)

Joppa said:


> Apply for EEA family permit in Italy (you don't need to be resident there) and don't come to UK until you get it. May take 2-3 weeks. Your wife can return but should ideally accompany you when you eventually arrive in UK. It means going to Rome for biometrics. Don't try to get EEA Dependant ink stamp at the border in view of the problems you have had. Details of your problems are likely to be on the database and will be accessible to any border officer by placing your passport in a reader.


Joppa, I still don't understand what happened at the border. I never overstayed my tourist visa when traveling, I wasn't using the NHS or public funds, and we had all the appropriate documentation at the border to show them. We did everything right (except for obtaining the FP). What does the stamp I received dated September 18th mean exactly?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

It's a short-term entry leave just long enough for your departure to Italy. The fact you didn't get EEA dependant stamp should act as a warning that they consider EEA family permit to be essential and don't like issuing ink stamp (so that they can spend time scrutinising every application and not have to make a snappy judgement at the border). It means you risk being turned away at UK border should you arrive next time without family permit. It's all to do with the tightening of rules and procedure to restrict net migration.


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## Crawford (Jan 23, 2011)

AceTravis said:


> Joppa, I still don't understand what happened at the border. I never overstayed my tourist visa when traveling, I wasn't using the NHS or public funds, and we had all the appropriate documentation at the border to show them. We did everything right (except for obtaining the FP). What does the stamp I received dated September 18th mean exactly?


At the end of the day, its the Immigration official's decision as to whether they let you in or not - even with, what you call, all the right documents. (Plenty of sham marriages going on at the moment and turning up with a newly issued marriage certificate and no Family permit may have triggered some suspicion)

You were told to get the Family permit before you tried entering the UK, so, this time , obtain the Family permit in Italy.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

There's always at least a slight bureaucratic risk of denial of entry even if that denial is improper or questionable. "(Bleep) happens," in other words, on occasion. As one example, the United States has occasionally deported its own citizens (in error, of course).

If you don't have an EEA Family Permit (the document you can get pre-entry) or U.K. Residence Card (the document you can get post-entry) in hand, all you can really do, as best you can, is to try to reduce the costs and consequences of possible entry denial in case you need to apply for and wait for an EEA FP outside the U.K. Here are a couple options along those lines that might apply. I'm not necessarily recommending these approaches -- they're highly situational.

1. Take the Eurostar train to London. Passport checks on are on the continental side, so at least you'll be stuck in France if there's a problem. The wine is better. 

2. You could try entering the Common Travel Area via Ireland. Though there's an airline/ferry company ID check for travel between the two islands, it's not a full blown visa/immigration check. The U.K. Border Agency only occasionally performs spot checks on travelers from Ireland to the U.K. Bonus points if you have a plausible reason to visit Ireland and an onward ticket. (But don't lie.) Irish immigration authorities of course have access to the CTA's database.

3. If possible and reasonably convenient, make sure your treaty-exercising wife is physically at the U.K. airport of entry if you fly to London, mobile phone in hand. If and only if the U.K. border officer shunts you to secondary screening, and it looks like things are going downhill, politely give him/her your wife's mobile number and encourage the officer to invite her to the "party," as it were. Not a guarantee, and they're not necessarily obliged to invite her, but bureaucratically speaking it's a little tougher to deny entry when a loving, anxious, legal EU spouse is physically there and waiting. (Keep it polite, professional, and matter-of-fact, though.)

I'd point out that if/when you attempt to enter the U.K. as a _tourist_ bearing a U.S. passport -- in every sense of the word, with an onward/return ticket, sufficient funds, etc. -- you're not particularly controversial, routinely. It's immigration that's "controversial" in the U.K. right now, even when contrary to at least the spirit of U.K. treaty obligations. But, please, don't lie, even about your intentions. Answer the questions asked truthfully.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Here are some examples of answering questions truthfully (I presume)....

Q: What is your purpose visiting the United Kingdom?
A: To see my wife.

Q: Where do you plan to stay?
A: At my wife's flat in London.

Q: How long do you plan to stay in the United Kingdom?
A: As long as I'm allowed.

Don't try to be a "wise guy," but that would be a reasonable conversation in the circumstances. They can see that you didn't overstay the last time you entered, so that's helpful -- and, I assume, you intend to comply with all the rules, thus the truthful answer to that third question. You may or may not get in, but what else is new? Of course if you do get in, get that @#$)( U.K. Residence Permit, OK?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Just apply and get EEA family permit in Italy and enter UK with it. Problems solved.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

No disagreement, Joppa. That'd be the preferred solution, and it might be the only possible solution in these present circumstances. My suggestions should all be viewed as second best (or Nth best) alternatives if and only if AceTravis wants to attempt a U.K. entry without an EEA FP, with the clear understanding that entry is at the discretion of the U.K. Border Agency (or perhaps their Irish counterparts), as always, and not guaranteed.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

With one refusal for EEA dependant ink stamp already on file (accessible also to Irish immigration), I strongly suggest OP does not attempt any further UK entry without EEA family permit. Irish immigration Garda are on the active lookout for those attempting a back-door entry into UK, and often refuse admission on that basis.


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