# Americans moving to Portugal. WTH? Help please!



## redmonkey8

Hello everyone. My wife and I intend to move to Portugal in ten months. We've saved for a house, we're self-employed with a reliable non-Portuguese income, and we know the area we want to live in. Our plan is to arrive, take up residence in an apartment, and then look for a home we want to buy.

Unfortunately, after calling ten different consulates, we are unable to ascertain exactly how to do this. One guy at one consulate says that we need only obtain a tourist visa, travel to Portugal, and then on arrival secure bank account, SSN, etc. Then apply for the residency visa.

Another consulate says that getting a bank account, fiscal number, etc, must all be done _before_ arriving by travelling first to Portugal and doing it (then returning home before applying for the residency visa--something we can't really afford to do) then returning to Portugal.

Can someone who is American and has moved to Portugal PLEASE tell us what is actually required and how to do it? The consulates--all ten of them--have been zero help. And the quality of interaction has been, shall we say, less than courteous.


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## Pablo91

Hello,

I know an American friend and lives in the Tomar and if I remember the time he had all the information on the U.S. embassy in Portugal.

I leave the link:

Home | Embassy of the United States Lisbon, Portugal

If not for that indiscretion region of Portugal think go live? : D

Cheers!

Regards


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## redmonkey8

Thanks for the info, but that seems to be for Portuguese wanting to move to the US, and not the other way around!


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## grammymissy

As Americans who have also researched moving to portugal, it is our understanding from speaking to portugal embassy in Newark New Jersey:

Newark office will send you visa application, via email.

- residency visa can be applied for in portugal, and outside of portugal, can go there and then apply. You can fly there, land and then start application for visa.
- proof of private health insurance is needed to apply for residence visa, proof of adequate funds to provide for self, no portugal funds available for medical care, etc.
- visa is needed for Americans to obtain bank accounts , etc. fiscal # application should be done ASAP upon arrival, if not applying before arrival.

*** obtaining a fiscal number is key, similar to our ss#, nothing can be done without this, obtaining this number can be time consuming***

There is no permanent visa to our understanding, they are time sensitive and you have to renew them. So if you purchase a home and then have visa not renewed - could be an issue.....

We have made several trips to portugal doing our research and have found that the slow pace is welcome in some areas of life and frustrating in other areas, patience is needed to get things done in portugal.

We have found portugal to be our chosen retirement location, and look forward to many years of residing there.

I look forward to any corrections to what I have stated since I too want to understand clearly the procedures.


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## redmonkey8

The requirements are so nebulous. This is literally, word-for-word, a snippet of the conversation I had today with the Portuguese consulate in San Francisco:

Me: It says on the requirements sheet that if you're self employed, you must present proof of eligibility to work in Portugal in order to qualify for a residency visa.

Him: Yes, that's right.

Me: And what is this proof?

Him: It shows that you can work in Portugal.

Me: Yes, that's what it does, but what is it? And where do I get it?

Him: You have to show proof that you're allowed to work in Portugal. If not, you can't get a residency visa as a self-employed person.

Me: I understand what it does, I understand why I need it. But I don't know what it actually, specifically is. Is it a form? Is it a piece of paper with writing on it?

Him: (Angry now) You can't just come to Portugal without proof that you're allowed to work.

Me: Alrighty.

I am actually not entirely sure what to do to get the answers I need. I'm considering writing a letter to the consulate at this point, but I'm not sure what good it will do. I'm also considering hiring a Portuguese speaker to call for me, and explain everything in Portuguese.


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## canoeman

The site you need is SEF the Ministry responsible for EU & Non EU nationals entry and stay in Portugal Portal SEF

You can download all forms from here Portal SEF

It's a bit of a catch22 you enter with a Schegen Visa then apply for Residency, documents required
Application Form
Valid passport plus one photocopy (Residency is granted for 5 years Passport must be valid min this time)
Two identical recent, colour passport photos
NIF (TAx number)
Proof of income / financial independence including medical insurance
Proof of accommodation
FBI check
A small fee

I must admit I was under the impression that you could apply for Residency through your local Portuguese Consulate.

You also need your D/Licences apostilled for exchange and possibly things like birth, marriage certificates.

Portugal must have banks in America, you can open a Portuguese Account with them and they will obtain a NIF number for you but it is temporary and can take time to correct to a permanent one


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## travelling-man

I don't know if this is of help to you or not but FWIW, I get the impression that the ease of getting residency for non-EU passport holders seems to vary from area to area.

For example, I was chatting to the guy who issued our residencias a few days ago & I said I know a fair number of people who would like to move to Portugal but don't have EU passports etc & he told me it's currently very easy in our area at least because they were keen to bring more people into the area and as long as they could prove they would not be a burden on the state, they'd have no problems being given residency.

I obviously can't guarantee it'd be as easy as he made it sound but he was very confident.

Also FWIW, when we went to get our residencias, we just filled out a form, told him we were financially secure & got our residencias in about 15 minutes flat & without further questioning.


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## canoeman

But your a UK National with the right to live, work, study or retire anywhere in EU providing No EU meet all criteria and have correct paperwork generally I've not heard of problems, its just finding all the right info


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## travelling-man

canoeman said:


> But your a UK National with the right to live, work, study or retire anywhere in EU providing No EU meet all criteria and have correct paperwork generally I've not heard of problems, its just finding all the right info


I agree completely but the conversation I had with him last week was about non-EU passport holders (mostly) from the USA & RSA and he gave the impression that it wasn't much harder for non EU passport holders to get residency (in this area).

I apologise for not making it clear that my better half & I are UK passport holders.

It looks like I'll be seeing him again sometime this week so if anyone needs to be put in touch with him, please let me know by PM and I'll get his email address and pass it on...... he speaks fluent English and from my experience is a very helpful man indeed.


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## canoeman

Is he a Camra employee or SEF? very different outlook always useful to have that contact


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## travelling-man

He works in the Town Hall and issues the Residencias etc so I guess that means he's employed by the Camra? 

'Fraid I don't know what SEF is?


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## canoeman

Still a useful contact but his remit very different to SEF the Goverment Department responsible for Nationality, EU and Non EU Citizens registration, Visa's, Asylum, Frontiers etc and implementing Governments laws and policies for above


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## acorey

redmonkey8 said:


> The requirements are so nebulous. This is literally, word-for-word, a snippet of the conversation I had today with the Portuguese consulate in San Francisco:
> 
> Me: It says on the requirements sheet that if you're self employed, you must present proof of eligibility to work in Portugal in order to qualify for a residency visa.
> 
> Him: Yes, that's right.
> 
> Me: And what is this proof?
> 
> Him: It shows that you can work in Portugal.
> 
> Me: Yes, that's what it does, but what is it? And where do I get it?
> 
> Him: You have to show proof that you're allowed to work in Portugal. If not, you can't get a residency visa as a self-employed person.
> 
> Me: I understand what it does, I understand why I need it. But I don't know what it actually, specifically is. Is it a form? Is it a piece of paper with writing on it?
> 
> Him: (Angry now) You can't just come to Portugal without proof that you're allowed to work.
> 
> Me: Alrighty.
> 
> I am actually not entirely sure what to do to get the answers I need. I'm considering writing a letter to the consulate at this point, but I'm not sure what good it will do. I'm also considering hiring a Portuguese speaker to call for me, and explain everything in Portuguese.


redmonkey, I could be wrong, but it seems that what we have here is a failure to communicate.. In your original scenario, you describe having employment from outside of Portugal. It seems clear to me that in this conversation with the consul, he was talking about the right to work IN Portugal. Though you would be IN Portugal while you are working, you would NOT be working IN Portugal. I think that this point is where you and the consul are confused..

You may need to prove that you have an income from outside the country (which is what I think you thought you were talking about) But you wouldn't need to prove you have the right to work in PT. (Which is what the consul was talking about).

Hope it works out.

AC


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## Richard Henry

*Yanks moving to Portugal*

Best thing we did when we purchased and moved was to hire a local English speaking attorney.
She handled everything for us legally & correctly.. Well worth the 300 euro fee she charged.


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## redmonkey8

Actually, we're from the USA, so a good deal of this won't apply to us. We can't get a Schegen Visa, nor a five year residency, as we're not EU citizens. This has actually been part of frustration--that most of the available information is for EU citizens--and what keeps us searching for answers.

Good points though, we're definitely keeping on it.


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## canoeman

Schengen Visa/s do apply to you, extended Visa/s applies to you, working Visa/s do apply to you, Residency Visa/s for *Non EU Citizens* is valid for 5 years and has to be renewed every 5 years does apply to you.

Are you misunderstanding what's required?


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## redmonkey8

canoeman said:


> Schengen Visa/s do apply to you, extended Visa/s applies to you, working Visa/s do apply to you, Residency Visa/s for *Non EU Citizens* is valid for 5 years and has to be renewed every 5 years does apply to you.
> 
> Are you misunderstanding what's required?


That's certainly possible. Is the Schengen Visa the same as a residency visa? Do working visas apply to the self-employed not working in Portugal?


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## canoeman

Scjengen Visa is for Non EU Nationals valid for a 90 day stay in EU, slight variations depending on country your from.

Work Visa is for to a Non EU National who has an employnent offer from an employer in Portugal 

As your Non EU and intend to be self employed in Portugal then I believe I'm correct in saying you will reguire a Residency Visa and supply necessary proofs as I posted, as a Resident you would be required to file a yearly IRS return and because of your self employed status probably pay Social Security the benefit to that would be you and your family then wouldn't reguire Private Health Insurance for Portugal but would it elsewhere in EU, USA etc


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## redmonkey8

canoeman said:


> Scjengen Visa is for Non EU Nationals valid for a 90 day stay in EU, slight variations depending on country your from.
> 
> Work Visa is for to a Non EU National who has an employnent offer from an employer in Portugal
> 
> As your Non EU and intend to be self employed in Portugal then I believe I'm correct in saying you will reguire a Residency Visa and supply necessary proofs as I posted, as a Resident you would be required to file a yearly IRS return and because of your self employed status probably pay Social Security the benefit to that would be you and your family then wouldn't reguire Private Health Insurance for Portugal but would it elsewhere in EU, USA etc


Ah good, then we agree that the work visa will not apply to our situation. There's that sorted. 
Also, I hope you're not under the impression that I've been suggesting that we wouldn't require a residency visa. On the contrary, I'm just trying to ascertain what steps to obtaining one are unique to citizens of the United States. We don't require the Schengen visa to travel to Portugal, even for business, as we have a reciprocal visa agreement with Portugal. But if we want to travel to Portugal _before_ obtaining a residency visa, it seems we need one in order to then obtain the residency visa (this from the woman at the embassy in Washington). If we obtain the residency visa prior to departure, then the Schengen visa never applies. At least, this is our understanding so far. 

Good to know that we'll be eligible for the national health service once we're paying taxes.


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## canoeman

It's Social Security payments that cover health care, taxes on worldwide income a separate area.

I believe that you can apply for Residency Visa before leaving USA but yes as is clearly stated on American Portuguese Embassy site would reguire a Schengen Visa if you applied for a Residence Visa whilst here.


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## jfsteere

*Contact*

Hi ... we are an American Couple planning to retire to Portugal... ages 53. My email is jfsteere @ gmail . com if you can contact me i would like to chat about a few things. thank you, Jim


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## canoeman

Moderators often point out you shouldn't post your email address on an open forum, make 5 posts then you can PM other Forum members and communicate off Forum far safer


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## Sonho

We did this years ago. When we did it, a residence visa was more difficult to get. What I did, and what was recommended by the consulate, was to get a student visa which was good for 1 year. My children then acquired residence visas to keep the family together. We are Americans and had been living in Slovenia at the time. They organized everything for me. What I needed was: 
An invitation to study Portuguese at a school
Criminal record
Proof of medical insurance
Proof on savings/income
Proof of identity

It was pretty easy and took about 6 weeks start to finish. I did it before going to PT as often there are issues about residence visas once you are already inside the country. the student visa was renewable (and I did renew it).

Once there, I sorted the NIF out (actually, when we bought a house...). That was pretty easy too.

Get to know the SEF website. You will be on it a lot.


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## Foot Ball

I have to say that all this stress is not worthy...... You are an American moving to Europe. Buy your flight one way .......and next move is geting the fiscal number for which and no one seemed to have remember of mentioning U NEED an address. Some one can come with you and sign as you are staying with them ....like I did when I was still moving from hostel to hostel. It is done in 5 min. for 6 euro. you get an A4 paper ...that will be your fiscal number document.

Next is the residency, which as an American you have 2 options ......ask where to get it , (because it may be as an American possible to get at the city hall building....which if you want I could pop in and ask, or SEF.)...... or every three months pop over to Marrocco for a few days and come back in for another 3 months as a tourist....know ppl that have done that on and on ....


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## joselema

*Portugal Residency*



redmonkey8 said:


> Ah good, then we agree that the work visa will not apply to our situation. There's that sorted.
> Also, I hope you're not under the impression that I've been suggesting that we wouldn't require a residency visa. On the contrary, I'm just trying to ascertain what steps to obtaining one are unique to citizens of the United States. We don't require the Schengen visa to travel to Portugal, even for business, as we have a reciprocal visa agreement with Portugal. But if we want to travel to Portugal _before_ obtaining a residency visa, it seems we need one in order to then obtain the residency visa (this from the woman at the embassy in Washington). If we obtain the residency visa prior to departure, then the Schengen visa never applies. At least, this is our understanding so far.
> 
> Good to know that we'll be eligible for the national health service once we're paying taxes.


I am a US citizen and have been living in Portugal for 7 years. You can work in Portugal as an independent worker. You do not need a visa to travel to Portugal, all you need is a US Passport that is valid for at least 6 months. You can enter the EU through any country that is part of the Schengen treaty and then travel to Portugal as well. You can stay in Portugal for up to 90 days and re-enter as needed. To get a Portuguese residency visa you need to prove that you can provide for your living needs. That means a place to live (can be a rental agreement), that you have money to pay for expenses ( that can be a deposit in a Portuguese Bank and you can open a bank account without being a resident) and that you have medical coverage in Portugal. You can register a company in Portugal (as I did). For this you do not have to be a resident in Portugal. You can do this online in 24 hours or can hire a Notary to do it for you (cost is 300 Euros and worth it!) Now you are required to have an accountant if you have a company registered in Portugal (cost of approximately 150 Euros per month). Once your company is registered and you have reported that you are initiating activity, you can become employeed by your company. You set your own salary but it cannot be less than 485 Euros a Month. As you are employed by a Portuguese company you have to pay social security taxes on your income. The total social security contribution for you and your company is 168 Euros per month. With this you have access to medical services and other social security benefits such as unemployment and retirement for old age. Your company does not have to generate income from Portuguese sources. I generate all of my income from sources out of Portugal.
When you are hired by your company you can apply for residency visa. This has to be done outside of Portugal or in the US. When your visa is granted you have to pick it up outside of Portugal. Once you apply for your visa you can request transfer of the documents to a consulate in Spain (Seville for example) and have it picked up there. Seville is a 4 hour drive from Lisbon.
Needless to say Portugal is a wonderfull country, not trouble free, but excellent if you have an open mind and if you can laugh if silly situations.


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