# Cars, again.



## alexdz (Nov 18, 2012)

My apologies because I know this is a repetitive subject, but changes are still happening and I need to make some decisions soon and could use some insight. It looks like my house is sold with closing at the end of June. It's my intention at that point to hit the road to Puerto Vallarta. I've been planning all along to request a Residente Permanente visa, but the car issue is complicating the matter. Ideally I'd like to be able to pack up my own car and drive down, but it's not so simple. So...

1. I can ask for a Residente Temporal on the assumption that I can still get a TIP that will last for at least a couple of years. I'd like that amount of time because I don't think my current car would be the right choice to take, which means I have to sell it and buy another. Buying now and then having to sell to Carmax within 6 months means a significant waste of money. If I can get a couple of years use out of it then that becomes less painful.

2. I can stick with the Permanente, put my stuff in storage for some period of time, fly down and buy a car in Mexico, and then drive back to get it. This is less desirable because it doubles the drive, but I can deal with that. How long does it take to buy and register a car there so that it's legal to drive it back north. Is there any issue with driving a Mexican-plated car here? I wouldn't imagine it's a problem but I've never seen one.

3. I can again get the Temporal, keep the car I have now and drive it down with the intention of taking it back out and selling to Carmax once I've bought something locally. This car is less desirable because it's a mid-size sedan which would really limit my carrying capacity, in addition to being more conspicuous than I prefer. This option would at least cut the return trip in half.

Any information or thoughts anybody has on this would be greatly appreciated. It's amazing that the car is becoming such a problem when one of the things I'm really looking forward to when I get there is parking it and needing it rarely.

Thanks!


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

you could get a permanente and drive your car to the border. put your stuff in storage at the border on the US side.
Sell your car,take a bus to Puerto vallarta get a car and go back to the border to get your things. Meanwhile you can take quite a bit of stuff on the bus even if you have to pay something for the extra luggage it will not be like the plane.
That would be a pain in the neck trip but you would not have to go back to Virginia for you things.
You can drive a Mexican car in the US as long as you are a visitor and not a resident. You have to take a US insurrance when drive it in the US,


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

Since the new law does not allow you to apply for a Permanente or Temporada visa while you are here in Mexico, your story and solution is very similar to mine.

Here is a fact you should know, when you get your Permanente Entrance Visa in DC at the Consulate (it costs $36 USD), it will allow you to drive into Mexico, be sure to stop at the border to get your FMM and your passport stamped. Once you are in Mexico, you will then have to apply for your "green card" Permanente visa to live here. The trick is in the timing.

If I was you, I'd load up my car, making sure you inventory what you have and noting all electrical things with brand name, date purchased and serial & model numbers, and head across the border. Hopefully you'll get the proverbial green light to go through. 

Please go to banjercito.com (I think) to get your TIP. Depending on your car, the TIP will cost $300 USD and is refundable. It is just your guarantee that you will not selll your USA plated car in Mexico, which is illegal. Do not apply the sticker until you are ready to cross the border. If your windshield is damaged, as mine was, you still need to have it - mine was on a small piece of glass. IF your car is stolen with the sticker, you are still responsible for the car, no matter what. Do not remove it yourself. This little sticker and the sheet of paper it comes on is very, very important.

Once you get to PV, plan on a trip back across the border within the time it will take you to get your "green card", which can be up to two months. Look for, and purchase a Mexico plated car. Drive your USA car back up across the border, stopping to get your TIP sticker removed, to sell it in the USA. Carmax in San Antonio is the closest, easiest place although don't expect to get anywhere near KBB value. See Carmax requirements for buying your car - like if it is jointly owned on the title, both you and the co-owner need to be present.

Then fly back to PV. If Interjet flies there, take it, great airline.

Your TIP will have an expiration date on it and it is referenced to your passport and visa. I only say to exploit the time it takes between applying for and receiving your "green card" because things here do not move fast, nor are the data systems as sophisticated.

Always, and I mean always, have all your personal and vehicle information with you in your car, including copies of your passport, birth certificate, proof of Mexican insurance on your USA car, any other documents, such as registration, title, etc. We keep ours in a three ring binder in page protectors hidden out of sight.

DRIVE CAREFULLY - OBEY THE LAWS - FOLLOW THE SIGNS! I cannot over emphasize this when you are driving a USA plated vehicle. DO not give the police any reason to pull you over. Wear your seat belt, use your turn signals. If you have a GPS, set it to kilometers/hour. Until you get rid of that USA plate you are more vulnerable to traffic stops than a car with a Mexico plate.

How do I know this all? I just did it three weeks ago. You can find a long winded story of my travels at "A Newbie in His Paradise" thread.

Good luck.


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## mexikatz (Mar 16, 2013)

We drove here in January from South Florida with our permanent residency visas.

If I could do it over again I would check and see if you can permanently import your car at the border on day 1.


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## mexikatz (Mar 16, 2013)

mexikatz said:


> We drove here in January from South Florida with our permanent residency visas.
> 
> If I could do it over again I would check and see if you can permanently import your car at the border on day 1.


Hmm, can't edit my last post.

btw - we drove here straight through pulling a trailer and have since a) received our RP cards at INM and b) successfully nationalized the car and trailer here without returning to the border - but it was costly and a little stressful.


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## FHBOY (Jun 15, 2010)

mexikatz said:


> Hmm, can't edit my last post.
> 
> btw - we drove here straight through pulling a trailer and have since a) received our RP cards at INM and b) successfully nationalized the car and trailer here without returning to the border - but it was costly and a little stressful.


Well, if the car is nationalized, you should have no problems, right?


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## mexikatz (Mar 16, 2013)

FHBOY said:


> Well, if the car is nationalized, you should have no problems, right?


Correct. We have imported our car. 

My point was - if we could have arrived at the crossing at Laredo and instead of asking for a TIP we could have said "Please let us import our car NOW", we would have been much better off.


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## alexdz (Nov 18, 2012)

Thanks for the responses. A couple of questions:

citlali: What is the limitation on driving a Mexican-plated car as a US citizen? I can't be a resident of Mexico or the US? My plan had been to change my state of residency to SD, so would that be a problem?

FHBOY: I've followed your adventures closely, but I guess there's one thing I was missing--you're saying that with the visa application stamp(?) in your passport you're legal to get a TIP and use the car up until you finalize your immigration status (i.e, get green card)? I've been working on the assumption that this wasn't possible, and I've partially gone through the TIP application process online and didn't see a "why traveling" option to match our situation. It was either for business or tourism or a third which I can't remember now. So I assume I'd select tourism (180 days) and that will work at the border and keep the car legal for the time needed?

I've considered doing the import process at the border, which for what I want would limit me to a 2005/6 Ford Escape. That's fine, but there still seems to be some issue with getting the car documented once imported (i.e., title, registration) to make it legal to drive beyond the border. And I believe I would actually need to have established a household to do that paperwork, which means 2 again. That's something I can talk to a broker about but it doesn't seem promising.


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## mexikatz (Mar 16, 2013)

Option 4. Buy a car in Virginia (or perhaps you already have one) which will last well into the future. Have the car serviced, maybe put new tires on it. 

If you don't already have one - you are going to want an emissions certification. Get that before crossing the border. It may come in handy.

You are going to need/want insurance when driving that car in Mexico. You can do this ahead of time (contact AAA). That will run you about $550USD. That policy will be for a year BUT only until the point you stop being a tourist (when you get the green card). Read the fine print on that policy - it may be redeemable only for up to 15 days. So in reality you will probably pay $550 for a 2-3 month policy.

With your PR 'visa' from the consulate drive the car to Texas. At the border get a 30-day TIP for $300USD. THey will only give you 30 days with your PR visa. (You will probably kiss that money goodbye because you won't have your green card in 30 days). 

Drive the car to PV and import the car there after you get your green card. You will want to use a large, competent, good customs agent. Perhaps contact one now and confirm this is possible for you. Perhaps call Aduana and ask for recommendations.

(This is pretty much what we did - none of this back and forth back and forth).

Option 5. Contact a large, competent, honest customs agent in say Laredo. Perhaps one who has offices in DF, Laredo, and some other US city. Ask them if there isn't anyway you can import your car at the border. When you import the car you will get a pedimento - that is like your Mexican title. You won't get a registration until you get to PV and apply for plates.

When you have your pedimento you can then get Mexican insurance.

Ask your customs agent if there isn't some grace period you can request to drive your car to PV. It _may_ be as simple as displaying your pedimento on the windshield until you get there. Perhaps they can get you a Permiso Provisional. 

(this or something like what we wish we had done).

Now knowing the scarcity of things we are used not to mention the costs when we find them as well as the quality - I would pack that car to the gills with stuff. We had a 5 X 8 trailer and I wish now it had been bigger and fuller.


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## alexdz (Nov 18, 2012)

Just wanted to provide an update on my process so far and thank everyone again for the help.

In the end I decided to just get the Residente Temporal so that I could get rid of my existing car here and get reasonable money for it, and buy a small SUV that would be more useful for me and allow me to carry all of my stuff down in one trip. With a TIP I'll be able to at least use it for a few years and get my money's worth out of it, even though I would have preferred not having a US-plated car.

The process to get the visa application done was surprisingly pleasant. The worst part was having to get up at 5AM so I could make it to the metro stop before the parking lot filled with commuters. I was at the consulate (DC) well before opening time, and once the consular officer arrived at the window (somewhat after opening time ) I think it took less than an hour to get it all done. I had printouts of all my bank statements for the last six months and a years worth of 401k statements. Overkill but I wanted to make sure I had something that would satisfy the paperwork requirements. In the end she was satisfied with a printout of a transaction search showing only deposits to my checking account which showed my payments from OPM. So out of 40 or 50 pages of stuff, she was happy with the first two. 

A less pleasant surprise was the single-entry limitation noted in the visa form. I had previously decided that I would fly to PV initially since it only cost a few bucks more to add to the South Dakota trip. That way I could have arranged housing before driving down with all my stuff. Now it looks like that introduces too many complications so I'm back to just driving down and finding housing when I get there. No big deal.

BTW, I did contact one broker at Nuevo Laredo about the possibility of importing a vehicle. It would have cost about $1600USD for a 2006 Ford Escape, which I thought was reasonable. They also said I'd be able to get a $60USD permit from the "federales de camino" which would have made the car legal to drive to PV. The sticking point here was the need for a Mexican citizen to be on the paperwork for the importation process. I'd seen this mentioned in one of the books I read, and the author said that there are citizens at the border that you can contract with to do that for you. I asked the broker about this but they didn't provide a response, and I decided I didn't want to deal with the uncertainty so I skipped this option.

It gets rocky sometimes, but it's all coming together. :clap2:


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Alexdz,
Have your considered just flying to PV and finding housing first, also buying a car from a dealer there? Then, within the 30 day window get your Residente document. Once the card is issued, you could drive your Jalisco plated car or SUV to the USA and pick up your stuff without time limitations, fees or deposits at the border.


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## alexdz (Nov 18, 2012)

RVGRINGO said:


> Alexdz,
> Have your considered just flying to PV and finding housing first, also buying a car from a dealer there? Then, within the 30 day window get your Residente document. Once the card is issued, you could drive your Jalisco plated car or SUV to the USA and pick up your stuff without time limitations, fees or deposits at the border.


I did consider doing that. The realtor was confident I could find a condo pretty quickly, but the time required to find, buy, register, etc. a car was more uncertain. There's a practical limit to how long I can leave my stuff up here while I get everything done, and that's just a couple of weeks.

That's alright though, I'll bring a car that qualifies to be nationalized and do that after I get there once I have a better sense of how to go about it and whether it's worth it--even if it ends up requiring a trip back to the border. Once I'm settled there's no real hurry, and there's lots of Mexico to discover yet.


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## Joycee (Jul 22, 2009)

Regarding having a Mexican citizen import the car, that should be something the importer handles. When we imported our car 2 years ago, the car importer in Laredo had us sign the title over to a Mexican citizen even though my husband was a Mexican citizen. We then had to drive to Nuevo Laredo and locate the party who then took our car for an inspection and to process the paperwork. It was a hassle.


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## Jenner (Sep 20, 2010)

I am so tired of worrying about my Canadain plated car which will not qualify for import because it is too young. I cannot drive it back to Canada until next spring and would prefer to sell it to another Canadain who perhaps has plans to return to Canada permanently. It is a van with very low milage (just passed 44,000 Kilometers) and I bought it a couple of years ago with the intention of driving it for many years, so to sell now will be a sacrifice but I have come to the conclusion that it is the only way to secure any peace of mind.

The biggest problem is that I have no idea how to go about advertising it for sale or what sort of paperwork would be involved or if I should have a lawyer handle such a transaction. If only Mexico would provide a means for me to nationalize this van I would be happy to comply but it seems that once I apply for and receive my residente permanente, in October, I will have five days to get it out of the country. Apparently I have no choice regarding the permanente status as my current FM3 has a number 4 on the back. Does anyone have any suggestions? By the way, in case it matters, I live in the Chapala area.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Jenner said:


> I am so tired of worrying about my Canadain plated car which will not qualify for import because it is too young. I cannot drive it back to Canada until next spring and would prefer to sell it to another Canadain who perhaps has plans to return to Canada permanently. It is a van with very low milage (just passed 44,000 Kilometers) and I bought it a couple of years ago with the intention of driving it for many years, so to sell now will be a sacrifice but I have come to the conclusion that it is the only way to secure any peace of mind.
> 
> The biggest problem is that I have no idea how to go about advertising it for sale or what sort of paperwork would be involved or if I should have a lawyer handle such a transaction. If only Mexico would provide a means for me to nationalize this van I would be happy to comply but it seems that once I apply for and receive my residente permanente, in October, I will have five days to get it out of the country. Apparently I have no choice regarding the permanente status as my current FM3 has a number 4 on the back. Does anyone have any suggestions? By the way, in case it matters, I live in the Chapala area.


There is no shortage of Canadians near Lake Chapala. Why not just post an ad through the Lake Chapala expat group. If you are selling a Canadian plated vehicle and the sale is between two Canadians, I don't see that Mexico or a Mexican lawyer would have any role in the transaction. I don't know about selling cars in Canada. In the US, you just trade the title for money and then report the transaction to a state department of motor vehicles to get the title changed.


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## Jenner (Sep 20, 2010)

This is probably a stupid question but how do I access the Lake Chapala Expat Group?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

The site seems to be having server problems today, but is sponsored by Caldwell Banker Realty in Chapala. Unfortunately, they do not allow open advertising on the webboard, but there is a Classifieds section that you might investigate when they are back online.


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## Jenner (Sep 20, 2010)

Thank You.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> The site seems to be having server problems today, but is sponsored by Caldwell Banker Realty in Chapala. Unfortunately, they do not allow open advertising on the webboard, but there is a Classifieds section that you might investigate when they are back online.


Is there a bulletin board in the offices in Ajijic where members can post notices?


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## Detailman (Aug 27, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> Is there a bulletin board in the offices in Ajijic where members can post notices?


I believe there is a bulletin board at the Lake Chapala Society where it should be possible to post his vehicle.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

There is also a man advertising that he will buy cars and sell cars. , I believe in Chapala .com. If you want to be able to drive another Canadian car into Mexico drive to Nuevo Laredo with the buyer, get the sticker removed and come back by bus or with the new owner you do not even have to go into Laredo or cross the border to do this. You can do it in the free zone.


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