# Newbies 😃



## D&D (Apr 29, 2016)

Hey all, we are Donna and Deek and are hoping to relocate to Spain this year. Looking for a long term 5-6 bed villa to run as B&B 
Any advice?


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

D&D said:


> Hey all, we are Donna and Deek and are hoping to relocate to Spain this year. Looking for a long term 5-6 bed villa to run as B&B
> Any advice?


Don't!


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## D&D (Apr 29, 2016)

Lol why?


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## D&D (Apr 29, 2016)

Oh dear- why do you say that? ☹


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
The reason is that "Bed and Breakfast in Spain" seems to be a very rose tinted business - that is extremely difficult to make work in Spain (and other countries).
If I was given just £1 for every question on this forum about setting up this type of business in another country - I could afford to stay in a 5 star hotel!
I am sure others will be along with their opinions and advice.
Best of luck
Steve


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

D&D said:


> Hey all, we are Donna and Deek and are hoping to relocate to Spain this year. Looking for a long term 5-6 bed villa to run as B&B
> Any advice?


:welcome:

If you're wanting to rent one, few landlords would agree to you running a B&B in a rented property.

Also, though I don't know for sure, I feel that you are unlikely to be able to get the required permissions on a rented property. 


You'll need to talk to the local town hall to find out what permissions are required in that town.


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

D&D said:


> Hey all, we are Donna and Deek and are hoping to relocate to Spain this year. Looking for a long term 5-6 bed villa to run as B&B
> Any advice?


Spain is a big country.If you say roughly where abouts possible might get answers off people living in those areas but sorry to say a B and B would not be my first choice especially how things have changed over the years.After all the years we have lived here have seen them come and seen them go.Best of luck in your search.Respect.SB,


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

It is indeed very difficult in Spain to run this type of business, or any type of business to be honest. You need to carry out loads of research on areas and viability. Firstly of course, unless taking over another business, there will be enormous amounts of work and paperwork to go through to get licensed for such a venture. Costs to be self employed in Spain are enormous compared to, for example the UK. So many people come to Spain thinking they can set up shop, open the doors and clients will be rushing to part with their money but the truth is that to make any new venture take off you will need a lot of marketing, time to become established and build a reputation and for sure a lot of money in the bank to ride through that initial period.

Although tourism is certainly picking up, Spain has a long way to go until it is back to how it was in the boom. This means that holiday accom is plentiful and people have a lot of choice. If you base yourself in an area that is a popular tourist destination then expect fearce competition. If, on the other hand you are looking to establish in a lesser known area then you have your work cut out in making people aware of you.

That being said, there are of course always going to be plenty of tourists who don't want to go to a Spanish run hotel or B&B and want a taste of home from their hosts and so I am sure there are opportunities and possibilities but whatever you do, plan and think very carefully. On my last couple of ventures to different parts of Spain for short stays I have found hotels, b&b's and villas to be in plentiful supply with only the most established and highly rated properties either being sold out of able to command decent prices. 

If you are looking to move to Spain, live the dream and build a business that will provide for you and support you in later years then you are, sadly likely to be disappointed (at least without giving it a lot of time and input). If you are looking to run something small scale to bring in a few extra euros then this is possible but really needs a lot of thinking so that you don't join the countless thousands of expats who spend up and are forced to sell up!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

There have been a couple of similar enquiries recently, but I can't find them (I went back 11 pages).
I agree with everything people say above, but, having said that people do set up businesses and do make them work, and some of them are on this forum, so...
First thing is getting access to the information needed and one place that is absolutely essential is the local Town Hall/ Ayuntamiento. Presuming you don't speak Spanish or at least a high enough level to deal with licencing laws you'll need an intermediatory and that will be a gestor, at least to start with. Later on you'll probably need a notary and a lawyer and bank officials none of which will provide paperwork in English, although you maybe lucky to find someone who can speak some Englishhttp://www.madrid.org/cs/Satellite?...dMadrid/Estructura&tipoServicio=CM_Tramite_FA
Another place which in theory can help you is the Chamber of Commerce/ Camera de Comercio 
Qué te ofrecemos | Cámara de España
I can only find this in English, which is very sketchy
Qué te ofrecemos | Cámara de España
However on this page there is an email enquiry format that you can use and a mail address. You can write in English as I'm sure people who work in the Cámera speak English
Ayudas y Atención al Emprendedor - Cámara de España

And a word about the tourist trade in Spain. It's great when it's going well, but as we saw a few years ago when "something happens" like an economic crisis on the other side of the world, Spanish tourism suffers. It's not a stable market, even though there will always be some kind of market. The dependancy on tourism creates lots of problems for the Spanish economy and is one of the reasons it can be seen as fragile.
Just yesterday new unemployment rates were released. They have gone up (I'll open another thread) but one of the criticisms was that the government hasn't invested in diversifying industry. The tourist trade recovered well from the crisis (of course, hotels were giving away holidays practically free) and has expanded - until the next crisis...
Which brings me to AirB&B... A lot of competition there, You might be just as well to go down that routr which I'm not sure how it works, but it seems you don't need licences!
Lastly I know a Spanish couple who are opening a new type of B&B in El Escorial. Ok they've got the whole building and are doing it up, but they've been working on it for a year now and are taking course on how to get in it open and up and running...

PS this is a first list of steps to be done in Madrid. Not available in English
.http://www.madrid.org/cs/Satellite?c=CM_Tramite_FA&cid=1142598117554&definicion=ComunicacionesDeclaraciones&pagename=ComunidadMadrid%2FEstructura&tipoServicio=CM_Tramite_FA


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## tonymar (Jan 29, 2015)

D&D said:


> Hey all, we are Donna and Deek and are hoping to relocate to Spain this year. Looking for a long term 5-6 bed villa to run as B&B
> Any advice?


Hi and welcome,

Do you have an area in mind ? and have you visited it on a long term biases to get a feel for the area and to see if there is a potential market for your bed and breakfast.

If not maybe it might be best to just come out here and have a look around before taking the plunge 

Any way hope it works out for you both !!

Cheers Tony , Agost Alicante


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Hotel rooms in Spain are cheap as chips so why would anybody want to stay in a B&B? You'd need to offer something special to attract the punters, some specialist hobby sort of thing...yoga/painting et al.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

bob_bob said:


> Hotel rooms in Spain are cheap as chips so why would anybody want to stay in a B&B? You'd need to offer something special to attract the punters, some specialist hobby sort of thing...yoga/painting et al.


Dungeon parties, adult babies etc. etc!!!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

bob_bob said:


> Hotel rooms in Spain are cheap as chips so why would anybody want to stay in a B&B? You'd need to offer something special to attract the punters, some specialist hobby sort of thing...yoga/painting et al.


I much prefer b&b accommodation and try to avoid hotels as much as possible.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

D&D said:


> Hey all, we are Donna and Deek and are hoping to relocate to Spain this year. Looking for a long term 5-6 bed villa to run as B&B
> Any advice?


Please don't buy somewhere unless it already has a "Casa Rural" licence.

Friends of ours bought a place with B&B in mind 8 years later and having done everything the town hall kept throwing at them (serially - one after the other) only to be told that they didn't have enough land anyway so they couldn't trade!!!


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## D&D (Apr 29, 2016)

bob_bob said:


> Hotel rooms in Spain are cheap as chips so why would anybody want to stay in a B&B? You'd need to offer something special to attract the punters, some specialist hobby sort of thing...yoga/painting et al.


Hi there
I'm a hypnotherapist and wanted to offer a 'retreat' type feel to it.
😃


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## D&D (Apr 29, 2016)

Hi, no we aren't thinking of buying at all but thanks for the info! We seem to be hitting brick walls at he mo trying to find somewhere that will even allow this &#55357;&#56833;


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## D&D (Apr 29, 2016)

Thanks for that 😊


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## D&D (Apr 29, 2016)

I did think of adult parties actually &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;
Is there a market for this?


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## Mykap (Jan 21, 2010)

D&D said:


> Hi there
> I'm a hypnotherapist and wanted to offer a 'retreat' type feel to it.
> 😃


Hypnotherapy and swinging the mind boggles.... jeez.

As for the market google is your friend, it's already been done. Sigh.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

D&D said:


> Hi, no we aren't thinking of buying at all but thanks for the info! We seem to be hitting brick walls at he mo trying to find somewhere that will even allow this ��


Even if you bought a property this would be difficult, but how you can mount a bed and breakfast in a rented property I have no idea.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

I know a couple who started a B&B about 3 miles from Javea and they're having great success. They seem to know what they're doing based on the very good Tripadvisor reports they get.

I too don't think you'll be able to do it from a rented villa. You're going to need capital to buy with.


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## Madliz (Feb 4, 2011)

If I was renting out my house I certainly wouldn't want any tenants 'sub-letting rooms per night', or my property being used as a B&B or for adult parties. Would anyone?


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

D&D said:


> I did think of adult parties actually ����������
> Is there a market for this?


Hypnotic adult parties?? 

That may send out the wrong sort of message! 

Me thinks that if you want to run a swingers club you should keep the hypnosis apart of it!


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

And don't forget the new licencing rules which become law on 16th May. This law was essentially a ploy by the big hotel groups to stop companies like AirBnB taking business away from them. This new law is a minefield in itself.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

If I wanted to flush money down the toilet, instead I would open a B & B in Spain and the job would be easier and I probably would lose more. 

Let's say the B & B gets off the ground even through the maze of paperwork that beckons. The property rental prices in the off season are so low that anybody thinking of staying in B&B for a few weeks would need their heads to be examined.

Then there are the hotels that are begging for business and under-cutting each other in the hope that somebody will spend something in the bar.

The promoting of art, poetry, other writing etc is an idea which might work. But, adult entertainment . . . . Forget it!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I agree that setting up a bed and breakfast is anything but easy, and that competition is fierce nowadays especially with new business formats like Airb&b hitting the market. Also that renting a property to make it into a B&B doesn't seem lke a way forward. However making blanket statements saying that you can't make a living off a B&B are obviously mistaken. There are plenty of people doing it, a lot who probably find it a struggle and others who make a go of it.
Here's one example. An elderly Basque couple (He doesn't actually speak Spanish well so he's like the Brit who can't communicate) set up this B&B over 25 years ago. We went there as part of our honeymoon (We really *do* prefer B&Bs) It was lovely and is still going strong
Urkixa Bekoa | Casa Rural en BERRIATUA BIZKAIA / VIZCAYA


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I agree that setting up a bed and breakfast is anything but easy, and that competition is fierce nowadays especially with new business formats like Airb&b hitting the market. Also that renting a property to make it into a B&B doesn't seem lke a way forward. However making blanket statements saying that you can't make a living off a B&B are obviously mistaken. There are plenty of people doing it, a lot who probably find it a struggle and others who make a go of it.
> Here's one example. An elderly Basque couple (He doesn't actually speak Spanish well so he's like the Brit who can't communicate) *set up this B&B over 25 years ago*. We went there as part of our honeymoon (We really *do* prefer B&Bs) It was lovely and is still going strong
> Urkixa Bekoa | Casa Rural en BERRIATUA BIZKAIA / VIZCAYA


Key words highlighted?


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## ccm472 (Jan 6, 2016)

Pesky, that's a really great example for D&D to use as help in their planning. 
The B&B is situated within an hour of Bilbao, so is useful for those travellers heading to and fro the ferries. Thus the location box is ticked. (They mention other attractions but I know nothing about them).

The price shown is 20 euros per person per night, in low season, so theoretically 11 x 20 = 220 euros a night. However as an ex B&B owner in the UK , I'd only reckon on 1 night a week being full and then only for about 40 weeks a year. The rest is hit and miss depending on fiestas, sporting activities, my own downtime etc. 

High season bookings are also iffy as ideally an owner would like a family of 5 plus one of 4 and then a couple to book but there is a risk that 2 families of 4 want to book first and then nobody will take the room for 3. I would also be somewhat surprised if a Spanish B&B would get family bookings for a full week without its own pool or similar, if it's not first line of the sea.

You also say the B&B has been going 25 years, so the mortgage is long since paid off? Have the rooms been modernised regularly? Beds, bedding and towels at our B&B were changed every 3 years, or earlier if need be, and painting of walls and woodwork was done every year. Modern guests are very demanding even when not paying a fortune. These costs have to come out of income received too. 

We thoroughly enjoyed running our B&B but IMO it is not for anybody who is reliant on the income to pay the bills. If somebody is secure monetarily, perhaps through using their pension to see them through the lean times, then it is a nice way to work long hours and meet people.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Well a lot of details differ from the OPs opening proposal, but all I wanted to say is that statements like
_Don't set up a B&B in Spain because it will fail_ 
do not give an accurate picture.
Some do succeed because they have support, because they are thought out or a small proportion, because they get lucky. (Hard work, changing with the market,investing in advertsing and other strategies are taken for given)
The people in the link, as I said, started *25 maybe 26 years ago. *They are in the *north of Spain*.They are *locals*. They had help from the Basque government to set up the business because that was when rural B&Bs started in that region, and there was a government led drive. *The farmhouse was theirs*, probably had been in the family since it was built centuries ago. I haven't been back, but I recommended it to friends of mine and they have been going for_ over 20 years _so they must be doing something right

I still think it's possible to get grants and help for this kind of thing in many regions in Spain, especially since the crisis, and especially because tourism is one of the few things Spain invests in, but it's difficult for foreigners to find out about them and difficult for us to find our way through the maze of paperwork.

And on top of all that there are foreigners who do OK out of this kind of business. Maybe more fail than succeed, that I don't know.
Does anyone have info about this?

Personally, I feel the cafe/ bar on the tourist seafront is likely to give much more grief than a well thought out B&B in the mountains.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Leper said:


> The property rental prices in the off season are so low that anybody thinking of staying in B&B for a few weeks would need their heads to be examined.


Late September we're going on a road trip with another couple. We'll be using hotels, B&Bs and Airbnb. We don't intend renting even though there is a chance we might stay somewhere for a prolonged period.

I'm off out now.... to get my head examined.

I'm know you're talking about a few weeks, I'm just saying that there is a market for B&Bs.


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