# Working Illegally



## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

I've now been employed by my FZ employer for 4 months; to date, I have no employment or residence visa's. I work on average, 12 hours per day (I've also been known to work a straight 25 and 17 hour day!!). I've had no formal training nor am I paid for the extra hours worked.

Having looked at the Labour Laws of the UAE, my employer is in serious breach of employment regulations.

My question is, according to my contract, unsigned by my employer, can I simply stop working and return to my home country? What would be the implications for me and would I be liable to pay back all costs incurred by my employer for my employment?

Many thanks in advance for any advice given.


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## alli (Mar 6, 2008)

If you don't even have a residence visa, then from where I stand, you could do pretty much whatever you want! Your company couldnt force you to pay back the money they gave you, because they have never even employed you!

I am not an expert, but I think you would have the upper hand here. If they wanted to take you to court, they couldnt, because they are breaking a zillion laws by employing you illegally like you say.

Would be worth looking further into it.


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## qwert97 (Jun 2, 2008)

Since you do not have a residence visa, it probably means that you came on visit visa and overstayed. I was just reading an article where it was talking about huge fines imposed by Immigration and Naturalization for overstaying which is calculated per day of overstay. 

Unless there are any concrete evidence to the contrary, my gut feel is that the employer would wash his hands off this situation. I suspect that he paid you cash instead of a bank transfer. If however there are evidence that he had employed you, then he too is in serious breach and you may be able to recover the salary for hours you worked overtime. But you will still need to legalise your status.


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## sgilli3 (Mar 23, 2008)

qwert97 said:


> Since you do not have a residence visa, it probably means that you came on visit visa and overstayed. I was just reading an article where it was talking about huge fines imposed by Immigration and Naturalization for overstaying which is calculated per day of overstay.


I pretty sure Pasanada went on Visa run to visit a friend (Qatar??) not that long ago, so she should have a new 60 day stamp in her passport


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## katiepotato (Apr 29, 2008)

Hi Pasanda

It is an employer's responsibility to ensure that everyone working for them has the relevant visa etc. If you're just on a visit visa and they have not begun to process your work permit then they (not you) would be in serious trouble if the Ministry of Labour turned up. Freezone visas are normally a bit quicker to process so I have no idea why they're dragging their heels. 

In terms of working hours - UAE labour law states a max. 48 hour working week, with an 8 hour working day (although a newer version states that this doesn't apply to managerial and supervisory staff - which will be how a lot of companies get round it - so it does depend on your role). You are supposed to receive your basic salary plus 25% for any overtime worked.

If you decided to quit work and go home, I don't think your company would ask for the money back - partly because they don't have a leg to stand on, and partly because it is a logistical nightmare to recover money from exited staff! 

Not sure if this will stand here but in the UK you have eight weeks from someone's start date to issue them with a contract; however if they turn up and start working as planned and the employer pays them for this, it is seen as acceptance of the terms by both parties. 

It might be worth getting some legal advice as to where you stand - PM me and I can send details of the lawyers we deal with. 

K


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## hari (Jul 12, 2008)

Authorities are making strict actions on people working on visit Visa and on their employers. From August 1 onwards new rules regarding visit visas will come in force. If you are overstaying here you will have huge fines and my get an immigration ban upto 1 year. You can stop working at any time and employer cannot take any action ( Hope your passport is with you). It is also difficult for you to make any claims of overtime as you are not authorised to work.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Thank you to everyone who has replied, your time is appreciated.

I still have my passport (I'd NEVER let anyone have that!!) and yes, I did go to Qatar to renew my visitors visa, at MY expense. My EV has only just been applied for and I was expected to sort out the boss's renewal and 2 new members of staff who will be joining the company soon. I nagged and nagged for when my visa would be sorted out but never got satisfactory replies.

My boss paid my salary by bank transfer so there would be evidence if he caused a scene that I had been employed by him. I also have my "contract" that was never signed by him nor submitted to the Ministry of Labour for stamping (not sure if this rule applies to JAFZA employee's)

I am in a Managerial post but I wasn't managing anyone as my boss HATES to spend money on employing staff!

The workload was incrediable! For one person to manage a multi million dollar business without guidance and support was to be honest, taking the piss!! I don't wish to claim the overtime back, I have now resigned from my job and will seek new employment here. I just want to forget this company and get back what resembles a normal life and where my conversations are not centred around work as thats all my life has consisted of for the past 4 months.

May I take this opportunity to thank Ogri for his support and friendship during this very difficult time for me, he has been an absolute rock (he doesn't know this so will blush! LOL) Its nice to know genuine people still exist in this world.


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

Best of luck. I'm sure that you will find a new job really quickly and hopefully, your future employer will appreciate all your hard work and effort and treat you with the respect you deserve.


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## sgilli3 (Mar 23, 2008)

Maz25 said:


> Best of luck. I'm sure that you will find a new job really quickly and hopefully, your future employer will appreciate all your hard work and effort and treat you with the respect you deserve.


Ditto.
All the best Pasanada. I hope the next employer treat you with more respect, and the job is everything you hoped for- and more.


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## Ogri750 (Feb 14, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> May I take this opportunity to thank Ogri for his support and friendship during this very difficult time for me, he has been an absolute rock (he doesn't know this so will blush! LOL) Its nice to know genuine people still exist in this world.



How dare you suggest to people that I am a nice guy. I have the tough ex-army image to portray and you have just shattered that...........

Gutted that your mind was made up this morning, but, it is probably the right thing in the circumstances, even though I did offer to "speak" to your boss 

Hope you have a good flight back to the UK in the morning, and look forward to seeing you in a couple of weeks when you come back as a tourist.

Good Luck Jen xx


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## kris78 (Jul 8, 2008)

holaaaaa 

as long as u r not on the your company residance visa u can just leave the work now

and no they cannot do anything against you coz they are already illegale


quastions here:

1- did they brought u from your home country or you just met them here?
2- did u renew your visit visa for the second time? (u r over the limit 3 months)
3- have you found any job else (in case if u wana stay in dubai)
4- did they apply to you ? 
5- r u signing on a recipt everytime taking your salary? or getting it cash? or transfer to the bank ?

when u gona travel to my home land ?


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## cairogal (Aug 11, 2007)

The problem about this scenario (and I was in it about 10 years ago) is that while your employer is breaking the law you are not legally in the clear. I don't suspect this would mean anything more than deportation and perhaps a ban on future employment in the UAE. Could you pack up and go? Probably. Could you return to the UAE and seek employment with another company? If no paperwork has been initiated (and you would want to be absolutely sure that they have not applied for a work visa-they can do this without your passport in hand) and you are simply working on a visitor's visa then I would say it's possible. Technically, the contract you signed is not a legally binding labour contract.


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## kris78 (Jul 8, 2008)

cairogal said:


> The problem about this scenario (and I was in it about 10 years ago) is that while your employer is breaking the law you are not legally in the clear. I don't suspect this would mean anything more than deportation and perhaps a ban on future employment in the UAE. Could you pack up and go? Probably. Could you return to the UAE and seek employment with another company? If no paperwork has been initiated (and you would want to be absolutely sure that they have not applied for a work visa-they can do this without your passport in hand) and you are simply working on a visitor's visa then I would say it's possible. Technically, the contract you signed is not a legally binding labour contract.


mmm here is one of my points:

did they apply to your residance or not yet?? u can bribe the PRO to know the truth  hehehe

but the other point is: if you signed a contract u have to tell us which contract you have signed
there are two kinds:

labor ministry contract
private company contract

labor ministry contract can couse a ban for 6 months if you break it before one year (automaticly from the labor office) 

IN CASE IF YOUR COMPANY NOT IN THE FREE ZONE or if its in the FZ and you will move to another company not in the FZ

BUT if your company IN the FZ and u gona move to another one also in the FZ then NO BAN

the other kind of the contracts: (the one which u r signing it in the office with the company letter head) this one is NOT recognized by the labor office BUT they can apply it in the civil court as a CIVIL LAW... but dosnot cause any ban for you and dosnot stoping any residance in the future

and usually this contract has the penalties if you work for a competator, or u left the company before the agreed period 

and usually the penalties are money no more.


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## cairogal (Aug 11, 2007)

I think we're confusing terminology here. To the best of my knowledge an employer SHOULD (if time permits) obtain a work permit prior to your arrival. This does not mean you have residency. Residency is often sorted in those first 2 months. Work permits can be obtained w/o having an actual copy of your passport. What you need to find out is if a) a work permit has been applied for b) If leaving once the work permit is under way is considered absconding. 

I worked for someone who hired me on very short notice. They could only do so many applications at one time (I think labour law limits the number of work permit applications at one time-at least that's what I was told at the time), so my information, along with 4 other colleagues, had to wait for the first batch to come back. It meant I worked w/o residency for over 3 months. Is this the only problem? That you don't have your residency permit yet? Or are there other issues, pasanada? Check out the Gulf News-there's a section called "Ask the Law" in the sidebar.


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## EMAD75 (Mar 15, 2008)

Pasanada, 

sorry to hear about your troubles! I remember reading your posts here when you were about to move as we were also considering moving at that time, and you were asking all the questions I needed answers too at the same time!
I hope you get everything sorted, and manage to find a new job where you're treated properly. 

Best of luck!


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Hi everyone!

Once again, thank you for all your replies, they have been a great help to me.

I have spoken with my ex-boss and he will not be taking any action against me. I am free to be employed elsewhere if I so wish.

I'm now back in the UK and catching up on some much needed rest!! I shall be returning to Dubai next week for a holiday with friends and once I've been back home to Spain in August, I will be searching for employment in Dubai.

I sure am missing the heat of Dubai right now!!!


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Update on the employment front - I've been offered a job in Dubai!! Not entirely sure it's for me (Environment Consultant) but certainly worth looking into!


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## sgilli3 (Mar 23, 2008)

Pasanada said:


> Update on the employment front - I've been offered a job in Dubai!! Not entirely sure it's for me (Environment Consultant) but certainly worth looking into!


Yah- good for you!
I hope it all works out.


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

sgilli3 said:


> Yah- good for you!
> I hope it all works out.


Ditto. Congratulations and hopefully, this time round, things will work out a lot better for you and you career!


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## cairogal (Aug 11, 2007)

Great news, pasanada!


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Had some bad news this morning; my ex-employer is asking me to send a copy of my visa back to him or he will have to place a ban on me (he says I'll not be able to travel to the Middle East for many years because of this ban...hmmmmm) - trouble is, I NEVER had a visa, just my visitors visa!! I'm sure the guys at Immigration would be a tad confused!!


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## hari (Jul 12, 2008)

If you are out of UAE , for what reason he can impose a ban?


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## alli (Mar 6, 2008)

Legal advice. Now.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

hari said:


> If you are out of UAE , for what reason he can impose a ban?


I'm currently in Europe but was hoping to return briefly to Dubai next week. 

However, there are ways around these things 

Alli - I will be seeking legal advice.


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## katiepotato (Apr 29, 2008)

Wow - big time sour grapes on your employer's part! 

Have sent you the lawyer's details, keep us up to date with how you get on.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Hi Katie,

Have replied to you by PM. Many, many thanks for your help, you're a star!! 

I replied to my boss stating I never had a copy of my visa as I've never had one; he's now asking for a scanned copy of my exit stamp in my passport - am I being overly cautious here in not sending it yet???


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## hari (Jul 12, 2008)

Hai, Your ex boss may try to take a visit visa in your name so that you cant apply for a visa till it expires. This seems to be why he wants visa copy or exit stamp. Be careful.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Thanks, Hari.

I will be contacting various people today, JAFZA included. I have a feeling the guy will take out a visa in my name and then have me reported for absconding, hence why I've not supplied the info he requested off me.


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

katiepotato said:


> Wow - big time sour grapes on your employer's part!
> 
> 
> > Ditto. It's unbelievable that he could treat you so badly and then turn round and act as if you're the one that has done something wrong. I believe that what goes around comes around, so give it time and I'm sure that he will get his just dessert!
> ...


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Thanks, Maz and thanks to everyone on here for their support.

My ex-boss is just trying to save his own ass from being penalised by JAFZA, his words in his last email to me. So to save his own skin, he's willing to sacrifice MINE!!! I shan't put on here what I'm thinking at the moment out of respect to you all, but it's pretty damn unladylike!! 

I hope by sharing my experiences, others will take heed and know what to watch out for when coming here to work. I've not been put off from coming back to Dubai, but I certainly won't be as naive next time!!


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## Ogri750 (Feb 14, 2008)

Jen,

I told you before a few choice phrases you could say to your boss in German.

He has no right to any copy of your VISITOR'S visa.

He needs to remember, your visa wasn't sponsored by anyone, therefore he has no legal claim to a copy for whatever reason.

You entered the country on a visit visa, and you have have left with an exit stamp on your visit visa. End of story.


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Ogri750 said:


> Jen,
> 
> I told you before a few choice phrases you could say to your boss in German.
> 
> ...



Don't worry, Si, he fully understands Spanish so will know what I'm saying if I ever get the chance to call him a pajero!! LOL

I've not send him a copy of my exit visa, nor will I in the future. I've been away visiting family the past few days, returned to check emails and thankfully, nothing from him! 

Onwards and upwards!


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## Pasanada (Feb 5, 2008)

Following on from this total cock up!!

I found out today that my visa through JAFZA had been applied for and I was "informed" on 10th July that it was ready to be collected......either I was snoozing or someone is telling rather large porkies! IF I was granted a visa, then I would have been arranging for my medical and happily still living in Dubai! The visa hasn't been cancelled yet I left this company 6 WEEKS ago!!!

Time for me to start causing some waves, me thinks!


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