# Americans want to retire in France



## Jennifer Barber

My husband and I are interested in retiring in France. We are both 60. I read that we’ll be eligible for public health insurance after living in France for 3 months. What type of private health insurance do we need to have in order to apply for our initial visa? And what kind of proof of that insurance is acceptable on the visa application? Thanks.


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## GraceS

Jennifer Barber said:


> My husband and I are interested in retiring in France. We are both 60. I read that we’ll be eligible for public health insurance after living in France for 3 months. What type of private health insurance do we need to have in order to apply for our initial visa? And what kind of proof of that insurance is acceptable on the visa application? Thanks.


I suggest you use the "Visa Wizard" on the official French government visa website. The wizard will detail all the documents--including insurance--you need in order to apply. France-visas.gouv.fr | The official website for visa application to France. 

When I applied for a long stay visa as a retired person, the health insurance requirement was: "a health insurance certificate issued by the insurance company (covering any possible costs for medical repatriation, and emergency and/or hospital treatment, for a minimum amount of €30,000, valid in France for the whole stay."

I used one of the popular companies discussed in this previous thread health insurance thread:
(1) Medical Insurance PLEASE HELP! | Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad

I made the purchase online and immediately received an insurance declaration and a letter that specified the terms of the insurance. I included both documents in my application.


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## Jennifer Barber

GraceS said:


> I suggest you use the "Visa Wizard" on the official French government visa website. The wizard will detail all the documents--including insurance--you need in order to apply. France-visas.gouv.fr | The official website for visa application to France.
> 
> When I applied for a long stay visa as a retired person, the health insurance requirement was: "a health insurance certificate issued by the insurance company (covering any possible costs for medical repatriation, and emergency and/or hospital treatment, for a minimum amount of €30,000, valid in France for the whole stay."
> 
> I used one of the popular companies discussed in this previous thread health insurance thread:
> (1) Medical Insurance PLEASE HELP! | Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad
> 
> I made the purchase online and immediately received an insurance declaration and a letter that specified the terms of the insurance. I included both documents in my application.





GraceS said:


> I suggest you use the "Visa Wizard" on the official French government visa website. The wizard will detail all the documents--including insurance--you need in order to apply. France-visas.gouv.fr | The official website for visa application to France.
> 
> When I applied for a long stay visa as a retired person, the health insurance requirement was: "a health insurance certificate issued by the insurance company (covering any possible costs for medical repatriation, and emergency and/or hospital treatment, for a minimum amount of €30,000, valid in France for the whole stay."
> 
> I used one of the popular companies discussed in this previous thread health insurance thread:
> (1) Medical Insurance PLEASE HELP! | Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad
> 
> I made the purchase online and immediately received an insurance declaration and a letter that specified the terms of the insurance. I included both documents in my application.


Thanks! This is very helpful. I didn’t know about the repatriation requirement that if you become seriously ill and require long term care you have to go back to your home country. Good to know. I’ll check out some of the companies from the other thread you mentioned.


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## Bevdeforges

You may also want to take a look at the website of the US expat group AARO. They offer tax, financial and insurance information for their members which might be of use to you in preparation for retiring to France.





AARO - Association of Americans Resident Overseas


The Association of Americans Resident Overseas (AARO), founded in 1973 and headquartered in Paris, is an international, non-partisan association with members in 21 countries. It researches issues that significantly affect the lives of overseas Americans and keeps its members informed on those...




aaro.org




Although you become eligible for the national health care plan after 3 months of residence in France, your visa may require you to have a policy for your first year in France (i.e. the term of your long-stay visa). In practical terms, this isn't a bad idea as it will take you some time to get settled in, handle all the various administrative functions related to your arrival and settling in. And, once you apply for the CPAM health care system, processing of your application can take "a few" months.


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## Jennifer Barber

Thanks! Good information. I’ll check out AARO.


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## Peasant

Jennifer Barber said:


> My husband and I are interested in retiring in France. We are both 60.


Are either of you the children or grandchildren of someone born in Ireland, Poland or Italy? That could be an "in" to getting an EU citizenship.


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## Jennifer Barber

Peasant said:


> Are either of you the children or grandchildren of someone born in Ireland, Poland or Italy? That could be an "in" to getting an EU citizenship.


Unfortunately, no.


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## Franco-Belgian Brit

Jennifer Barber said:


> Thanks! This is very helpful. I didn’t know about the repatriation requirement that *if you become seriously ill and require long term care you have to go back to your home country.* Good to know. I’ll check out some of the companies from the other thread you mentioned.


I didn't know that.

As a French citizen, that won't apply to me (I guess), but what about my wife, an EU (Belgian) citizen?


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## suein56

Franco-Belgian Brit said:


> I didn't know that.
> 
> As a French citizen, that won't apply to me (I guess), but what about my wife, an EU (Belgian) citizen?


*'if you become seriously ill and require long term care you have to go back to your home country'*

IIRC I think that only applies during the first year when private health insurance cover is in place .. so before a 'carte/titre de séjour' has been secured and French health cover has been secured.
Bev will confirm or not ..


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## BackinFrance

Franco-Belgian Brit said:


> I didn't know that.
> 
> As a French citizen, that won't apply to me (I guess), but what about my wife, an EU (Belgian) citizen?


France does not at this time separate husband and wife, at least if you are not of Arabic etc descent in which case things are somewhat unclear, but even so it is based on being a threat to security.


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## BackinFrance

BackinFrance said:


> France does not at this time separate husband and wife, at least if you are not of Arabic etc descent in which case things are somewhat unclear, but even so it is based on being a threat to security.


Even so, if you have travelled to certain countries, you could be investigated. But generally speaking if you have only been in the EU and other western democracies, or say Japan it should not be a problem. Of course if a far right party should win the upcoming election (God forbid), who knows.


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## Bevdeforges

If you are currently covered under the Belgian health plan, you may be able to live on an EHIC for the three months until you're eligible to apply for the CPAM cover, regardless of nationality. It's normally only the non-EU folks (those without an EU nationality or EU residence that would provide for an EU national cover) who need to present a full year's private policy with that repatriation clause.


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## BackinFrance

Bevdeforges said:


> If you are currently covered under the Belgian health plan, you may be able to live on an EHIC for the three months until you're eligible to apply for the CPAM cover, regardless of nationality. It's normally only the non-EU folks (those without an EU nationality or EU residence that would provide for an EU national cover) who need to present a full year's private policy with that repatriation clause.


Perhaps EU citizen are subject to some rules I am not aware of, though that seems to me a little strange given the rules that apply to French citizens who have lived elsewhere, unless they have an EU pension.


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## BackinFrance

AFAIK EU citizens moving to France must currently have health cover equivalent to the health cover provided by the French health system, and that does not include repatriation cover. It can most certainly include retirement cover by another EU country. This, of course, could change in the future. IIRC this and all the PUMA stuff was introduced by the Hollande government.


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## BackinFrance

In addition, the current government has shifted much of the cost of the pandemic to CPAM, which is now in deficit.,and significantly so. This is something that will have to be addressed post the election, irrespective of the winner. Unless of course you think the issue can be delayed indefinitely.


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## jweihl

Jennifer Barber said:


> My husband and I are interested in retiring in France. We are both 60. I read that we’ll be eligible for public health insurance after living in France for 3 months. What type of private health insurance do we need to have in order to apply for our initial visa? And what kind of proof of that insurance is acceptable on the visa application? Thanks.


My wife and I are retired americans in our early 60s. We are newly arrived (September 2021) in France so a lot of this is still fresh in our minds. Honestly, applying for (and getting) health insurance that meets the visa requirements is simultaneously not hard, but complex. There are a lot of companies with a lot of options and sorting through them was probably one of the more time consuming parts of OUR visa application preparation. I would keep these things in mind:

1. When you apply for your visa, you just have to supply the insurance policy "certificate" - it's generally a document that spells out (broadly) what's covered, who is covered, and for what period of time.
2. Most of the insurance products in this market clearly state that they meet the requirements for a Schengen Visa. Those are the same requirements as the French long stay visa requires. So long as your certificate states this, I doubt the visa application reviewer will look at it much beyond that.
3. Since you have to have insurance for a year (for the long stay visa), but you'll want to join the French healthcare system as soon as you're eligible, look for a policy that's either cancelable or convertible to a "mutuelle" (top-up insurance to cover what the French systems doesn't), so that you aren't stuck paying for redundant coverage.
4. Since there are so many options, you need to decide what level of coverage will make sense for you given your risk tolerance and health status/conditions. Policies range from extremely broad (think BCBS in the US) through barebones (really only covers you if something catastrophic happens, and possibly only up to the minimum required by the Schengen visa requirements).

We went with a middle of the road approach. Fairly broad coverage and convertible to a mutuelle. We're hoping to not even use it, and so far so good. Plus our applications to the French system are submitted and being processed, so we're just in the waiting phase. There are lots of good options out there and I'm sure that people here can provide you with places to look if you need a starting point. We ended up using: Exclusive Healthcare and it's worked well for us so far.


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## Bevdeforges

suein56 said:


> *'if you become seriously ill and require long term care you have to go back to your home country'*
> 
> IIRC I think that only applies during the first year when private health insurance cover is in place .. so before a 'carte/titre de séjour' has been secured and French health cover has been secured.
> Bev will confirm or not ..


That does indeed only apply to the one year health insurance that you need to have for an application for a long-stay visa for France. The one thing to remember is that for the EU national spouse to "sponsor" their non-EU spouse for a carte de séjour, the EU spouse will have to show proof of their own insurance cover and cover for the non-EU spouse at the time of application. But I believe the requirements for this cover are not the same as that required when requesting a visa.


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## InternationalGuy

jweihl said:


> My wife and I are retired americans in our early 60s. We are newly arrived (September 2021) in France so a lot of this is still fresh in our minds. Honestly, applying for (and getting) health insurance that meets the visa requirements is simultaneously not hard, but complex. There are a lot of companies with a lot of options and sorting through them was probably one of the more time consuming parts of OUR visa application preparation. I would keep these things in mind:
> 
> 1. When you apply for your visa, you just have to supply the insurance policy "certificate" - it's generally a document that spells out (broadly) what's covered, who is covered, and for what period of time.
> 2. Most of the insurance products in this market clearly state that they meet the requirements for a Schengen Visa. Those are the same requirements as the French long stay visa requires. So long as your certificate states this, I doubt the visa application reviewer will look at it much beyond that.
> 3. Since you have to have insurance for a year (for the long stay visa), but you'll want to join the French healthcare system as soon as you're eligible, look for a policy that's either cancelable or convertible to a "mutuelle" (top-up insurance to cover what the French systems doesn't), so that you aren't stuck paying for redundant coverage.
> 4. Since there are so many options, you need to decide what level of coverage will make sense for you given your risk tolerance and health status/conditions. Policies range from extremely broad (think BCBS in the US) through barebones (really only covers you if something catastrophic happens, and possibly only up to the minimum required by the Schengen visa requirements).
> 
> We went with a middle of the road approach. Fairly broad coverage and convertible to a mutuelle. We're hoping to not even use it, and so far so good. Plus our applications to the French system are submitted and being processed, so we're just in the waiting phase. There are lots of good options out there and I'm sure that people here can provide you with places to look if you need a starting point. We ended up using: Exclusive Healthcare and it's worked well for us so far.


Thank you for your detailed input. I am thinking about going with GeoBlue with a $2,500 deductible for the one year policy and the annual premium paid in advance, I believe it is cancelable. Would that amount be acceptable?


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## jweihl

I'm pretty sure that GeoBlue would work, but do make sure that the certificate makes it clear that the policy is Schengen compliant. I'm pretty sure that once the analyst sees those words they move on to the next item in your file. You may wish to check about how/when you can cancel. In our plan we were allowed to convert it to a mutuelle after we got our assurance maladie. Our neighbors had a different policy. It was cancellable for a (I think) full refund, so long as they had not made any claims.


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## dpdapper

On the subject of GeoBlue, at the time of the renewal of our visiteur carte we were insured by Blue Shield of California and, after becoming Medicare-eligible, our Medigap policy was and is also with Blue Shield. If you are by chance insured by Blue Shield (or, I imagine, Blue Cross) and you log into the GeoBlue site with your member number, you can print a list of doctors and hospitals in France that are, I think, considered, “in network.” I have used that printout and a copy of our Blue Shield member card to show evidence of health insurance without any problem when renewing our visiteur carte de sejour.

That said, we did not try that with our initial application for a long-stay visa, when we purchased a one-year policy.

YMMV.


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