# Rental ITP



## NBlackbourn (Feb 11, 2015)

Hello, this is my first post on the forum.

My girlfriend and I have just moved to Barcelona from the UK. We've got the flat, the wifi, the insurance, our savings etc, we're well set up and happy to have got so far.

The Impuestos sobre Transmisiones Patrimoniales tax took us totally by surprise, we owe €126 euros to el gobierno. We can afford to pay right away, but for reasons too convolute to be worth explaining in this post, we may not have the NIE in time to pay before the 30 day deadline.

I found a handy article about tax penalties which says that the penalty for late payments within 3 months for most taxes is 5%, which for us would be just over €6. If someone could confirm this is the case for ITP specifically it would be a great comfort to the two of us who are having a bit of a troubled time!

I appreciate all advice.
Thanks


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

NBlackbourn said:


> Hello, this is my first post on the forum.
> 
> My girlfriend and I have just moved to Barcelona from the UK. We've got the flat, the wifi, the insurance, our savings etc, we're well set up and happy to have got so far.
> 
> ...


Sorry, can't help you regarding the tax but I am confused why you owe ITP for a rental - I'll look out for the answers with interest.

I also don't understand your comment about a 30 day deadline for your NIE.

You can get an NIE straight away (within a couple of days anyway) as there are NO requirements like income or healthcare. 

There is also no deadline in which you MUST get it.

There is a 90 day deadline for registering as resident but that's a whole different thing.


----------



## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

NBlackbourn said:


> Hello, this is my first post on the forum.
> 
> My girlfriend and I have just moved to Barcelona from the UK. We've got the flat, the wifi, the insurance, our savings etc, we're well set up and happy to have got so far.
> 
> ...


I can't help with ITP, sorry.

Regarding NIE, I obviously don't know your specific problem, but I do know how hard it is to justify getting one in Barcelona, despite what others might say on this forum. You should find it easier to get one in Vilanova i la Geltrú, and they don't run an appointment system there either. The only sticking point would be if you don't fall into their catchment area (I think they are getting wise to Barcelonians going there because it is easier). Also, you have to go there twice (the initial visit then again 48 hours later to pick up the proper copy of the certificate). You will get the number, though, straight away.


----------



## NBlackbourn (Feb 11, 2015)

Thanks very much everyone for you info on the NIE, especially about Vilanova i la Geltrú, but I would just like to make clear that my question was about ITP on rental properties (quite specific I know).

Snikpoh, the 30 days is the deadline for payment of ITP after contract settlement (I'll need the NIE for payment of any taxes).

We have appointments for our NIEs on Monday (a week from today), we have just heard from a couple for sources that they can be hard to obtain (without work contracts) and wanted to understand what penalty we may incur on late payment of the tax if so.


PS. Just so no one thinks I'm some kind of illegitimate immigrant who is too lazy to work, my girlfriend and I worked hard and saved for a long time to be able to come here with money enough to support ourselves over an extended job hunt. I promise I'm a contributor to society!


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

NBlackbourn said:


> Thanks very much everyone for you info on the NIE, especially about Vilanova i la Geltrú, but I would just like to make clear that my question was about ITP on rental properties (quite specific I know).
> 
> Snikpoh, the 30 days is the deadline for payment of ITP after contract settlement (I'll need the NIE for payment of any taxes).
> 
> ...


snikpoh has properties which he rents out & I've been a tenant in Spain for more than 11 years

neither of us have ever heard of a tenant paying ITP on a rental property :confused2:

it certainly isn't the norm

you don't need any kind of contract, income or anything else to get a NIE number - you just have to have a good reason for needing one

since your reason is for the payment of taxes & because you live here, the extranjería will expect you to register as resident - & for that you need to show income or funds & healthcare provision, as has been mentioned


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

As Xabiachica and Snikpoh have said you should not be liable for any taxes regarding property as a tenant in any way... this is a matter and responsibility for the property owner.

As for an NIE... am I missing something? Someone said its hard to get one in Barcelona? I dont understand this.. maybe something has changed but I have helped many people get NIE numbers. You may be asked why you need one (to buy a car, to open a bank account, because you plan to buy a house, because you plan to work etc) but any EU resident should be issued an NIE trouble free (it allows you to pay tax after all). Residency may be a different thing with the requirement to often prove you can support yourself, have healthcare plans in place etc but an NIE number is usually very simple and fast (although it is a couple of years since I have had any dealings with this so as I said things may have changed).

Back to the taxes thing.... who gave you the bill and what does it say on it? I mean if you are not registered in the system anywhere for tax yet (no NIE and not in the SS system) then the authorities will not have issued you a tax bill in your name I wouldn't have thought... is this just something thr landlord is asking you for? If so I would tell him to swing for it!


----------



## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

NBlackbourn said:


> Thanks very much everyone for you info on the NIE, especially about Vilanova i la Geltrú, but I would just like to make clear that my question was about ITP on rental properties (quite specific I know).
> 
> Snikpoh, the 30 days is the deadline for payment of ITP after contract settlement (I'll need the NIE for payment of any taxes).
> 
> ...


If your Spanish isn't up to scratch, can I suggest you take someone who is fluent, if possible. It'll help you if you can because they probably won't converse in any language but Spanish and probably won't have a lots of patience either.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

steve_in_spain said:


> As Xabiachica and Snikpoh have said you should not be liable for any taxes regarding property as a tenant in any way... this is a matter and responsibility for the property owner.
> 
> As for an NIE... am I missing something? Someone said its hard to get one in Barcelona? I dont understand this.. maybe something has changed but I have helped many people get NIE numbers. You may be asked why you need one (to buy a car, to open a bank account, because you plan to buy a house, because you plan to work etc) but any EU resident should be issued an NIE trouble free (it allows you to pay tax after all). Residency may be a different thing with the requirement to often prove you can support yourself, have healthcare plans in place etc but an NIE number is usually very simple and fast (although it is a couple of years since I have had any dealings with this so as I said things may have changed).
> 
> Back to the taxes thing.... who gave you the bill and what does it say on it? I mean if you are not registered in the system anywhere for tax yet (no NIE and not in the SS system) then the authorities will not have issued you a tax bill in your name I wouldn't have thought... is this just something thr landlord is asking you for? If so I would tell him to swing for it!


what will happen when they go for the NIE is that they will be asked what they need it for

if they say 'we live here & have to have the number for xxxxx ' the extranjería will then shove an EX18 under their noses & demand that they register as resident, with the requirements that involves


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> what will happen when they go for the NIE is that they will be asked what they need it for
> 
> if they say 'we live here & have to have the number for xxxxx ' the extranjería will then shove an EX18 under their noses & demand that they register as resident, with the requirements that involves


The joys or the spanish paperwork... was always so simple... NIE with no questions and even residency was a breeze..... Although if they say "we come several times a year and want to buy a car"... might work?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

steve_in_spain said:


> The joys or the spanish paperwork... was always so simple... NIE with no questions and even residency was a breeze..... Although if they say "we come several times a year and want to buy a car"... might work?


I couldn't possibly encourage someone to be less than honest


----------



## NBlackbourn (Feb 11, 2015)

I really appreciate all the info, like I say, I'm still pretty naive to all the technicalities.

The exact phrasing of the contract is as follows:
El arrendatario satisfara en el plazo legal establecido de 30 dias, el Impuesto de Transmisiones Patrimoniales, de obligatoriedad en Catalunya, cuyo importe asciende al 0,3% de la capitalizacion del arrendamiento aqui establecido, es decir, (payment amount). Una vez satisfecho hara llegar al arrendador o su administrador la acreditacion de su pago.

I understand the laws on ITP are different between provinces so perhaps this is only true for Catalonia? We had some help on this process from some friends with fluent Spanish who work in the rental market so I'm going to double check a couple of details with them now.

We should technically get our NIEs on Monday or soon after by what people have said on this thread, in which case all of this will no longer matter (to us).


----------



## NBlackbourn (Feb 11, 2015)

Turned up with evidence of my Spanish course. They said they don't hand out NIEs for stays under three months. What I encountered was a much more strict than a lot of things we've read on the internet.

Also with regards to who's responsibility it is to pay ITP, I have been shown a host of links to agency websites stating that payment is the tenant's responsibility. Apparently it's a recent development.

Thanks to everyone for the advice so far, I'll continue to use the forum during my time here for sure.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

NBlackbourn said:


> Turned up with evidence of my Spanish course. They said they don't hand out NIEs for stays under three months. What I encountered was a much more strict than a lot of things we've read on the internet.
> 
> Also with regards to who's responsibility it is to pay ITP, I have been shown a host of links to agency websites stating that payment is the tenant's responsibility. Apparently it's a recent development.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for the advice so far, I'll continue to use the forum during my time here for sure.


OK, I think we are all confused.


They DO hand out NIE's for less than 3 months - if you ask, they MUST give you one
For a private property that you will be living in, there is NO ITP to pay - no matter where you are. No the law hasn't changed recently. 

Are we talking about living accommodation or a leased premises?


Regarding the NIE - when you get one, the piece of paper only lasts for 3 months, then it will need renewing or 'upgrading' to the certificate of registration.

If Spain is now your main residence then you will need the certificate of registration which means you are on the list of foreigners. This piece of paper will also show your NIE. 

If Spain is not your main residence and you will not be here for more than 90 days at a time (less than 183 days in a calendar year), then all you need is an NIE 


The authorities can not refuse to give you an NIE.

Imagine the following scenario;

You are resident in UK but your father lives in Spain. He dies and leaves you his house. In order to inherit that property you need an NIE even though you have no intention of ever living in Spain. In this scenario, you only need your NIE for as long as it takes to do the paperwork and for you to inherit the property!


----------



## NBlackbourn (Feb 11, 2015)

You're right, I certainly am confused and I can see in that scenario that the system would need to work that way. I am just confused over my experience at the office two days ago being different. We turned up, asked for the NIE and were not given one.

Perhaps we should have mentioned specific tasks we needed to do which required the NIE rather than 'I am here studying Spanish'. I just don't know.

The apartment is being eased to us by the owner, it's a rental.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

NBlackbourn said:


> You're right, I certainly am confused and I can see in that scenario that the system would need to work that way. I am just confused over my experience at the office two days ago being different. We turned up, asked for the NIE and were not given one.
> 
> Perhaps we should have mentioned specific tasks we needed to do which required the NIE rather than 'I am here studying Spanish'. I just don't know.
> 
> The apartment is being eased to us by the owner, it's a rental.


OK. 

Regarding the rental - you're being scammed!

Regarding the NIE. You need to fill in form EX17 and on there where it asks 'why?' Say that you are buying a holiday home. I know this is not correct but it's what I would do. However, if you are here to study, then you really need more than an NIE and that's why they are saying what they are I suspect. 

As I said previously, if you are going to be here longer than 90 days (as I think you are), then you should actually get a 'certificate of registration'. This is via form EX18. You will need to prove that you have sufficient savings to support yourself and that you have private health care in place. Without these, you won't get one.


----------



## Helenameva (Aug 15, 2014)

NBlackbourn said:


> Turned up with evidence of my Spanish course. They said they don't hand out NIEs for stays under three months. What I encountered was a much more strict than a lot of things we've read on the internet.
> 
> Also with regards to who's responsibility it is to pay ITP, I have been shown a host of links to agency websites stating that payment is the tenant's responsibility. Apparently it's a recent development.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for the advice so far, I'll continue to use the forum during my time here for sure.


Your experience with getting your NIE is much the same as mine. They seem very uptight about issuing them in Barcelona. I could legitimately go to Vilanova i la Geltrú as I mentioned before, which was very easy in comparison. If it's an option for you I would go there. If not, I don't know what to suggest. I had a multi-lingual gestor with bags of experience trying to help me to get one in Barcelona and she was stumped. I wish you luck.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> OK.
> 
> Regarding the rental - you're being scammed!
> 
> ...



EX15 for the NIE  The EX 17 is the ID card for non-EU foreigners

I agree that they probably mean that the OP needs to register as resident, rather than just get a NIE


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> EX15 for the NIE  The EX 17 is the ID card for non-EU foreigners
> 
> I agree that they probably mean that the OP needs to register as resident, rather than just get a NIE


Ooops, thanks for spotting that.


----------



## mike kelly (Aug 12, 2009)

I have experience with that office in Barcelona and found them most unhelpful and rude. They really go out of their way to make things tough for you.


----------



## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

Just to confirm that the tax is payable, it's a tax on the establishment of a lease, relating to Catalunya. It was increased to 0.5% on 1st January 2015.

Arrendamientos de fincas urbanas o rústicas:
Para hechos imponibles a partir del 1 de enero de 2015: 0,50%
Del 31 de enero de 2014 al 31 de diciembre de 2014: 0,30%

As far as fines are concerned, the standard fines for late payment are 5% per quarter. This applies to all late tax payments.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

CapnBilly said:


> Just to confirm that the tax is payable, it's a tax on the establishment of a lease, relating to Catalunya. It was increased to 0.5% on 1st January 2015.
> 
> Arrendamientos de fincas urbanas o rústicas:
> Para hechos imponibles a partir del 1 de enero de 2015: 0,50%
> ...


Thanks - I stand corrected. 

Is it called ITP (transfer tax) as suggested?


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

CapnBilly said:


> Just to confirm that the tax is payable, it's a tax on the establishment of a lease, relating to Catalunya. It was increased to 0.5% on 1st January 2015.
> 
> Arrendamientos de fincas urbanas o rústicas:
> Para hechos imponibles a partir del 1 de enero de 2015: 0,50%
> ...


is it usual for the _tenant _to pay it though?


----------



## CapnBilly (Jun 7, 2011)

snikpoh said:


> Thanks - I stand corrected.
> 
> Is it called ITP (transfer tax) as suggested?





xabiachica said:


> is it usual for the _tenant _to pay it though?


It is called a transfer tax, I guess it's about transferring the right to live there, a bit like the second homes imputed tax, and it is paid by the lessee.


Who is the taxpayer of the property transfer tax?
In general, the taxable person or person liable for payment of the tax is the person for which the Act is performed.

Therefore, it is taxable:
-in the transmission of property rights, the person that acquires the property or the right.
-the Constitution of a right of usufruct, the usufructuary/aria;
-the establishment of a lease, the lessee/aria.

Coming soon to a town near you ?


----------

