# Newbies here - retiring in Spain.



## 1759826 (Nov 27, 2020)

Hi, we are 60 and 66, with a modest budget, little dog. preferably ground floor OR apt with Preferred areas around Calida, Almeria, Murcia way, we know Spain reasonably well and speak pigeon spanish, but intend integrating so studying. So much info - but basically should we ideally come over and rent for a month, get the feel of places? What have others done?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

If you are British with no EU nationality such as Irish, then Brexit will be your first consideration. In order to live in Spain under the current, EU rules, you need to be living here by 31st December and apply for residency. This usually requires property ownership or long-term rental (minimum a year), as you need to submit padrón certificate showing you are on local population register. So I'd say get a long-term rental/lease, which should be quite easy to get (a lot of empty rental properties). You also need S1 from NHS when one of you is on state pension and the other as dependant, confirming UK will pay for your healthcare in Spain. Plus enough monthly income not to become a burden on the Spanish state. The best thing to do is to get in touch with a gestor in your desired area at once, who will assist you with application. If you want to drive, you need to exchange your licence, which must be initiated by the year end. Gestor will again help you.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

After the end of December it's going to be a lot more difficult for British citizens to move to Spain. You won't have the benefits of being an EU citizen any more, which means you´ll be treated as a foreign immigrant and will have to prove you have an income of around €30,000 (?) as well as health insurance cover. So get your skates on - and yes, rent first!


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Carjelk said:


> Hi, we are 60 and 66, with a modest budget, little dog. preferably ground floor OR apt with Preferred areas around Calida, Almeria, Murcia way, we know Spain reasonably well and speak pigeon spanish, but intend integrating so studying. So much info - but basically should we ideally come over and rent for a month, get the feel of places? What have others done?



The other posters have given you good advice. I believe the annual income requirements, after 1st January 2021, will be €25,500 for a couple or €32,000(maintained over the first 5 years) lump sum in a Spanish bank. You will need full private healthcare cover (with no co-payments) if you can't register for the S1 forms before the end of the year 2020. After that first year you can register for the Convenio especial which will give you full access to the Spanish healthcare system. 

Steve


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Are non EU residents entitled to the convenio?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

kaipa said:


> Are non EU residents entitled to the convenio?


Yes, provided they have lived in Spain for a year, confirmed by padrón certificate.


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

tebo53 said:


> The other posters have given you good advice. I believe the annual income requirements, after 1st January 2021, will be €25,500 for a couple or €32,000(maintained over the first 5 years) lump sum in a Spanish bank. You will need full private healthcare cover (with no co-payments) if you can't register for the S1 forms before the end of the year 2020. After that first year you can register for the Convenio especial which will give you full access to the Spanish healthcare system.
> 
> Steve


I don't believe it's correct to say that the lump sum needs to be maintained for even one year let alone five.

The requirement is to have sufficient resources so as not to become a burden on the state and I believe that can be cash in the bank for a years living or guaranteed monthly income from pensions etc. or possibly a combination but not both.

For the second and third two year visas that would mean lodging not €32,000 but €64,000 each time and it would be totally dead money for those whole of those four years.

Of course how rules are interpreted on a local basis in Spain is a different subject completely.

For the record the current financial requirements for no EU would be immigrants is 4x IPREM for the first person and 1x IPREM for a second, depending on whether you calculate that on a 4 weekly or calendar month basis (12 parts or 14 parts PA, Spain use both) it works out to €32,270 or €37,595.

Currently there is no reason to believe that the same would not apply to the British as non EU citizens.

IPREM 2020 Indicador Público de Renta de Efectos Múltiples


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Joppa said:


> Yes, provided they have lived in Spain for a year, confirmed by padrón certificate.


Not just lived in Spain for a year but been legally resident and had private health insurance. Residence starts from the date of receiving a green residencia or the submission of an EX23 TIE application.

On it's own a padron is proof of little more than that you're signed on it, it certainly does not prove or confirm that you've actually been living in Spain for any period if at all. Even though they have no right to be many non residents are on a padron.

The only time a padron may be taken as proof of living in Spain is by the tax man because signing on is a defacto declaration that you live at the address given.


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## 1759826 (Nov 27, 2020)

Well, Brexit is such a mess I don't think anything is written in stone yet is it. We have a worldwide pandemic and currently travel to Spain is not allowed. Not sure how to get around that one! What is a gester please? We already decided on private healthcare insurance anyhow. Guess we will wait and see!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Carjelk said:


> Well, Brexit is such a mess I don't think anything is written in stone yet is it. We have a worldwide pandemic and currently travel to Spain is not allowed. Not sure how to get around that one! What is a gester please? We already decided on private healthcare insurance anyhow. Guess we will wait and see!


In the Withdrawal Agreement it is indeed written in stone that as of Jan 1st 2021 British citizens will be treated as all other third country citizens, so the income requirement figures above are correct.

The current discussions are only about trade. The freedom of movement issue is set out in the WA.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Carjelk said:


> Well, Brexit is such a mess I don't think anything is written in stone yet is it. We have a worldwide pandemic and currently travel to Spain is not allowed. Not sure how to get around that one! What is a gester please? We already decided on private healthcare insurance anyhow. Guess we will wait and see!


Written in stone no, but signed and sealed yes.
There will be changes amendements and possibly new agreements in some aspects, but at this moment immigration, and this is an immigration issue, has been done and dealt with, so look at those figures and see what you can come up with


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## 1759826 (Nov 27, 2020)

Ah well, thanks all. Guess no one will be going out to Spain after 31st, to live or buy a home, retire or even stay longer than 90 days. So that's that, hasta luego English people, I'm sure Spain won't concede a thing, it's not as though we retirees bring any money to the country is it... !!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Carjelk said:


> Ah well, thanks all. Guess no one will be going out to Spain after 31st, to live or buy a home, retire or even stay longer than 90 days. So that's that, hasta luego English people, I'm sure Spain won't concede a thing, it's not as though we retirees bring any money to the country is it... !!


It's not Spain's fault. Spain didn't vote for Britain to leave the EU! They have bent over backwards to make sure that all Brits legally resident in Spain have their rights protected, even passing a special law to look after us. But you do have to be living here at the end of the withdrawal period.

Brits will still be able to move to Spain after then, but they won't get the freedom-of-movement benefits of being EU citizens. They will be in the same category as Americans, Australians, Russians etc.


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## 1759826 (Nov 27, 2020)

Alcalaina said:


> It's not Spain's fault. Spain didn't vote for Britain to leave the EU! They have bent over backwards to make sure that all Brits legally resident in Spain have their rights protected, even passing a special law to look after us. But you do have to be living here at the end of the withdrawal period.
> 
> Brits will still be able to move to Spain after then, but they won't get the freedom-of-movement benefits of being EU citizens. They will be in the same category as Americans, Australians, Russians etc.


I know that!! I didnt vote for Brexit! After a lifetime of scrimping and saving, and now with osteoarthritis and finally having the money to actually follow our dreams, we cant do it!! Obviously we cannot come to Spain at the moment as its out of bounds.... we just wanted to live modestly and quietly in the sun.


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## Phil Squares (Jan 13, 2017)

First of all, I am an Irish citizen, so I have no dog in this fight. However, the UK population voted to leave the EU. As has been stated already, Spain didn't leave the UK did. Those are the consequences and there isn't anyone can really do about it. I didn't vote for Brexit either, but a majority of people did and now the UK is stuck with the consequences. 

What amazes me is the number of UK citizens who live in Spain who favored BREXIT. To me, that was mind-blowing!


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Wouldn't worry Scotland and Wales will possibly go independent and rejoin so maybe English folk have blood lines to these countries


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Carjelk said:


> Obviously we cannot come to Spain at the moment as its out of bounds.... we just wanted to live modestly and quietly in the sun.


You can't come to Spain for a holiday, but can if you are moving here permanently. You will need PCR (swab) test and negative result before arriving in Spain. Get in touch with a gestor (professional helping people to deal with Spanish red tape; you pay a fee for their services but well worth it), who will advise you about what documents you need, and apply on your behalf for residency online. Provided that is done before 31st December, and your application is approved, you will become beneficiary of withdrawal agreement and can live for good in Spain.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Carjelk said:


> I know that!! I didnt vote for Brexit! After a lifetime of scrimping and saving, and now with osteoarthritis and finally having the money to actually follow our dreams, we cant do it!! Obviously we cannot come to Spain at the moment as its out of bounds.... we just wanted to live modestly and quietly in the sun.


I expect to see many more posts like yours next year, sadly, when the realities of Brexit come home to people whose plans to retire to Spain have been dealt a severe blow.

But I really dislike the assumption that the Spanish Government must or should introduce some kind of "special" immigration status and requirements for British citizens which is different to that applicable to all other non-EU citizens, because they "bring money into the country". You referred to your "modest budget" and just wanting to "live modestly and quietly in the sun". So just how much is that contributing to the Spanish economy? Your income might not even be high enough to pay income tax on in Spain.

Another point - you mentioned you have osteoarthritis, and had already decided you would take out private health insurance. Are you aware that in most cases insurance companies will exclude pre-existing conditions from cover? If you were to succeed in obtaining residency in Spain, then after the first year in most regions you could pay into the Spanish public health system via the Convenio Especial which does include any and all pre-existing conditions, but not the cost of any medications you may need (and private health insurance doens't normally cover medication either, except what may be prescribed during a hospital stay).


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I agree with Lynn here. There seem to be alot of people who think Spain are shooting themselves in the foot by not facilitating residency for Brits as Brits bring money to the economy. However many average UK pensioners pays very little income tax and probably live relatively frugally so I doubt that the 400,000 Brits who live in Spain are that vital in the overall picture. Also, there are plenty of other nationalities out there like Scandanavians who feel that the Spanish tax system is favourable to them who no doubt will fill any gap left by the Brits. Finally it wasn't Spain who created the dilemma and are still amazed that you would consider a flag more important than your economy or freedom to live in different places.


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## Nomoss (Nov 25, 2016)

Apart from all that's been said above, the Brexit referendum was in June 2016.
Brits have had about 3 1/2 years to plan their moves to EU countries, but are now beginning to complain as if it all happened suddenly..................


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

kaipa said:


> Wouldn't worry Scotland and Wales will possibly go independent and rejoin so maybe English folk have blood lines to these countries


Scotland no chance to join the EU unless they set a precedent. Have you read the background. They would open the doors to all the places wanting independence if they did. The Catalans would be first in the queue. A lot of people in England would be happy to see Scotland go.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Carjelk said:


> Ah well, thanks all. Guess no one will be going out to Spain after 31st, to live or buy a home, retire or even stay longer than 90 days. So that's that, hasta luego English people, I'm sure Spain won't concede a thing, it's not as though we retirees bring any money to the country is it... !!


Yep Hasta luego English people because Brexit was voted in and one of the most obvious results was that living in another European country was not going to be as easy or as cheap as before.
Some businesses in Spain might be affected and some companies will have to change their focus, but Spain has little reason to make exceptions for British, especially as Britain has made few if any for the Spanish. There are plenty of Europeans who can come here to live or for a holiday without visas.
It's a shame that politicians don't think about the direct effects that their decisions have on their voters and don't think about what is actually important to their voters. Or maybe in some cases it's the voters who should consider what effect their vote will have on them and their families.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Scotland no chance to join the EU unless they set a precedent. Have you read the background. They would open the doors to all the places wanting independence if they did. The Catalans would be first in the queue. A lot of people in England would be happy to see Scotland go.
[/QUOTE]

There is a difference between saying you just want independence and actually holding a referendum and proving that. At the moment polls suggest that a clear majority would vote for independence. If Sturgeon does well in May she can legitimately claim that the electorate should have the chance of a referendum. Boris Johnson would make things worse by refusing. Let people vote in a fair democratic way and let's see.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Back on topic. Saw this in Telegraph today. starts mainly with Greece but could apply to any EU country. Did not realise Portugal had extended the 90 day rule.
*With the recent news that Portugal will allow Britons to remain in the country for 180 days without a visa, however, second home-owners and long-stay visitors are hoping that other EU countries will offer workarounds. “Citizens from the EU, EEA and Switzerland who want to stay in the UK for up to six months will not require a visa post-Brexit. All we are asking for is parity,*
I thought that there were implications for anyone staying over 90 days anyway. Remember getting my hand slapped by a few regulars when we wintered for around 5 months. Can't remember what was posted, all went over my head.









Could Brexit signal the end of the road for second-home owners in Europe?


Rules will limit the amount of time Britons can spend in their foreign boltholes




www.telegraph.co.uk


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Isobella said:


> Back on topic. Saw this in Telegraph today. starts mainly with Greece but could apply to any EU country. Did not realise Portugal had extended the 90 day rule.
> *With the recent news that Portugal will allow Britons to remain in the country for 180 days without a visa, however, second home-owners and long-stay visitors are hoping that other EU countries will offer workarounds. “Citizens from the EU, EEA and Switzerland who want to stay in the UK for up to six months will not require a visa post-Brexit. All we are asking for is parity,*
> I thought that there were implications for anyone staying over 90 days anyway. Remember getting my hand slapped by a few regulars when we wintered for around 5 months. Can't remember what was posted, all went over my head.
> 
> ...


It seems that you would have to apply in the UK for "settled status". 
Stay in the UK ('settled status'): step by step - GOV.UK
Apply to the EU Settlement Scheme (settled and pre-settled status)
So, just as people from the UK in Spain having to apply for TIE's *“Citizens from the EU, EEA and Switzerland who want to stay in the UK for up to six months will not require a visa post-Brexit. All we are asking for is parity," *
ie parity, or not?
Can't read the article from the Telegraph...


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## proud.to.be.EUROPEAN (Feb 14, 2020)

Quoting telegraph, right wing newspaper, says it all.
Anyway, Schengen code is crystal clear, 90 days in 180 days, no ifs or buts.

However, some national laws allows for extension of stay past 90 days. Its not automatic and no guaranties you'll get extension. Even if you get extension for few months, its only valid in issuing country, not in rest of Schengen.

"asking for parity"? No, it's begging.
UK six month rule apply to worldwide visitors, not just from EU, its been in place for decades.


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## John P. (May 2, 2016)

1759826 said:


> Hi, we are 60 and 66, with a modest budget, little dog. preferably ground floor OR apt with Preferred areas around Calida, Almeria, Murcia way, we know Spain reasonably well and speak pigeon Spanish, but intend integrating so studying. So much info - but basically should we ideally come over and rent for a month, get the feel of places? What have others done?


You sound very much in the same position we were in, late 90's. Learned Spanish, (Medium conversation level), knew Spain had numbers of holidays 2 or 3 times a year.
Before making any firm decisions, Did about 2 years research every evening for 5/6 hours, making our way around the Med. eventually came to Turkey.
Despite what you might read in the gutter press, Turkey is friendly, there are NO problems with dress code. You often see traditional dressed ladies accompanied by modern western attired females, and they do not covet what they do not have unlike the British, continually trying to live up to the Jones household next door. Lived very happily there since 2008, in Gümüşlük, a small although expanding fishing village on the West coast of Muğla province, some 17 Km from Bodrum Town and just 50 minutes to the international airport.
Turkey has never been in the EU, and so all these new problems rules and regulations are of no consequence, you will be dealing with a well established routine for processing immigrants, leading to a permanent residency which can be gained immediately.
You will need initially to gain access to the country a visa for up to 90 days cost £20 which used to be payable "at the door" but do check on that, as I think that the "at door payment" has been withdrawn.
Application for permanent residency can begin from the day you arrive, but suggest you get some legal help, as there a number of easy enough hoops to jump through, BUT in the RIGHT order, it 's all fairly straight forward.
OK: So Turkey isn't every ones dream retirement, it wasn't ours but how pleased we are with the eventual decision to make Turkey our home.
Note the 90 day visa is 90 days in any 180, so you can cover more than one visit on a single visa.
Well I hope that helps, but whatever you do enjoy your retirement it won't last forever so be happy. Best wishes for your futures.
JP


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

What's the situation regarding healthcare in Turkey for foreign retirees?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

1759826 said:


> Ah well, thanks all. Guess no one will be going out to Spain after 31st, to live or buy a home, retire or even stay longer than 90 days. So that's that, hasta luego English people, I'm sure Spain won't concede a thing, it's not as though we retirees bring any money to the country is it... !!


The answer to that is, not a lot. Scandinavians, Russians and Chinese are more valuable.
Having said that, there may be a few areas which traditionally have seen an influx of British immigrants and they may well be feeling the effects in the short or medium term. But Spain can survive without the input of British retirees like me. It’s either the ninth or tenth leading world economy and less than 20% of its GDP comes from residential or other tourism, a sizeable chunk but Brits do not form the largest part of that 20%. 

Yes, Brexit has dashed the plans of many would- be immigrants and not only the retired. I’m honestly surprised that so many people seem unaware that the vote in June 2016 spelled the end of free movement. It’s not as if immigration was never talked about. Did some people think that meant only immigration TO the UK? If so, it reinforces my view that complex and important national issues should not be presented as referenda. Very few people on either side had much in- depth knowledge of the issues at stake. (I didn’t vote but would have voted Remain because I don’t like big changes).


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## SteveG999 (Aug 5, 2020)

Brexit and its consequences were out in the public domain since the summer of 2016. Those who have been caught out with issues about moving to Spain post Brexit ( Predominantly financial and medical ) have sadly failed to pay attention. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of plus points in gaining independence, but these forums and others and full of all the negatives too, and it was clear that leaving the EU would have serious repercussions for free movement. The old fashioned view that the country of Spain needs British £££ is frankly ludicrous. Plenty of people from the EU move to Spain, and are happy to spend significant cash on rent / buying / and everything else. The archetypal British couple living off their UK state pensions are not Spains big spenders and never will be. I strongly urge those who fall below the new IPREM monthly income etc..etc..look elsewhere if at all possible if they are determined to live in the sun...


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