# Suggestions of higher grounds please



## Der Wanderer (Mar 13, 2017)

Hola Mexicanos,

this is my first text here, so please have a heart.

I start with the question:
Could you pls suggest places to live, which are between 500 and 1500m altitude?

The background:
An international job allowed me to live in many places. Beside others I lived in Guatemala and the climate there is an old mans dream. I speak fluently spanish and have once been in Mexico, but longtime ago. 

When you move to other places, you not only miss black bread or smoked fish or pig-head-brawn you can miss the other culture. If you are only under "others", no shop will ever provide you with kale, as you are the only guy who wants it and all the others have never heard of it. 

But the most important thing for me is this wonderful climate which I would love to lock in for the restlife. Most of the expat-houses are on the beach, well fun for 14days but every day? Hell no!

So I kindly ask you to give me ideas of villages on higher grounds. Where in perfect climate one can get old. I imagine me in a garden with own veges and fruits, where I must do a little twice a week. I do not need fancy stuff or shopping malls, but clean air and some tranquility. And fast internet of course.

Many thanks!


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Der Wanderer said:


> Hola Mexicanos,
> 
> this is my first text here, so please have a heart.
> 
> ...


:welcome:

Much of central Mexico, from Puebla in the east to Guadalajara in the west, is higher than the 1500 m upper limit you specified. But there are lots of places that fall in that range, places like Tepic, Torreon, Monterrey and lots and lots of smaller places.

Incidentally, I don't think "most" expats live near the beach. Certainly, many do but there are lots of them inland as well. The beaches in Mexico are fairly unpleasant in the summer so those appeal mostly to people who want to live in Mexico part time.

If elevation is an important driver in where you live, just turn on "terrain" in one of the web mapping sites and do some virtual exploring.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

Der Wanderer said:


> Hola Mexicanos,
> 
> this is my first text here, so please have a heart.
> 
> ...


Ditto TG's welcome and the observation that much of Mexico lies between 500 and 1500 meters elevation, but here that wouldn't really qualify as "higher ground" because most of the cities, like Guadalajara, León, and Morelia are around 1800 while CDMX and surrounding area are at 2200 or more. I'll also agree that the coast--and I live there-- doesn't have ideal year-round weather, but it's pretty nice from October to April. Also, given that Mexico doesn't have a wide coastal plain, other than for the Yucatán, the elevation rises sharply from port cities like Mazatlán, Vallarta, Manzanillo and Veracruz so that higher towns with your requirements are not very far away. Might be easier to find the smoked fish you crave. As far as _pig-head-brawn_, I've no idea what that is, but Michoacán is quite famous for converting every part of a pig into something delicious. Again, :welcome:


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## RickS (Aug 6, 2009)

I personally would take Monterrey off Tundra's list due to your comment about clean air. Monterrey is seriously polluted. Tepic might fit your bill 'tho and the elevation is OK.

I would add the state of Colima, maybe even Colima city (it's not that large) or some village in the state. Maybe Comala outside Colima City or Tecoman closer to the ocean. Colima City is probably 500 meters and Tecoman not much more than 50. 

Up the road from Colima City is Cuidad Guzman (state if Jalisco) a nice little city but the elevation might be approaching your 1500 meter max. Another possibility is Las Varas Jalisco. Tons of fruits being grown in this region. Almost totally Mexican. It is about 10 miles away from the ocean and the little gem of a hideout called Chacala, but expect some ****** year-arounders there....but mainly an out of the way little bay just meant for.... doing nothing and enjoying doing so!


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## izzenhood (Jun 8, 2013)

Der Wanderer said:


> Hola Mexicanos,
> 
> this is my first text here, so please have a heart.
> 
> ...


Although I have not traveled extensively in Mexico I do have some favorite highland places, none of which I would consider to be a village, but there are most certainly pleasant villages close to each.

My favorite would be Guanajuato, at 2000 meters. The city center is extremely beautiful, although touristy. But the tourists are generally Mexican as Guanajuato is one of the historical centers of Mexico. The city is in a steep valley, and many homes are up steep streets or callejones.

Zacatecas is similar to Guanajuato, very historical, hilly, but at 2500 meters.

The Lake Chapala area, about 1500 meters in elevation, could be considered, depending on ones taste. I only mention it because I have been there, and can see why some would like it. There are plenty of expats, while in Guanajuato and Zacatecas they are relatively scarce. Mostly likely you could find kale in the Chapala area, and the towns and villages would be more conducive to gardening. I don't like cities, or beach towns, or huge expat communities like the Chapala area, but it is flat, has a pleasant climate, with all the services nearby that one might need, but still my first choice would be Guanajuato.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

The OP says between 500 and 1500m obviously he likes it war and anything at 2000 , on up is just too cold.. I know I live at 2200m..
Antigua Guatemala has a wonderful climate like the Ajijic area , Colima, Comala are nice and warm if that is what you like, Xalapa and the towns around in Vera Cruz would be another town that comes to mind. Comitan in Chiapas has a nice climate and Chiapa de Corzo is at 500 m.. way too hot and humid for me but to each its own,


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

Try Colima City ..... inland and an easy drive to the beach


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

When RickS writes:" Another possibility is Las Varas Jalisco. Tons of fruits being grown in this region. Almost totally Mexican. It is about 10 miles away from the ocean and the little gem of a hideout called Chacala, but expect some ****** year-arounders there....but mainly an out of the way little bay just meant for.... doing nothing and enjoying doing so!"

Never heard of a Las Varas, Jalisco, he may have meant Las Varas, Nayarit, about 10 miles from Chacala but at 27 meters or 89' it is far from the 500 meter min. the OP is looking for..Super hot and humid.....


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## RickS (Aug 6, 2009)

Yes, chico, I stand corrected about Las Varas. And I also guess I misread the part about 500 being a minimum.... thought he wanted to keep his upper limit between 500 and 1500 meters.

So that would also remove Tecoman Colima from my list....


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

I don't know RickS, I read "between 500 and 1500m altitude" Wouldn't that mean 500m would be a minimum?
The OP writes:
"I start with the question:
Could you pls suggest places to live, which are between 500 and 1500m altitude?"
and
"So I kindly ask you to give me ideas of villages on higher grounds." 

I would suggest Mascota, Jalisco......at 1285m or 4219 feet it seems to be in the center of his range..
80℉ temps with low humidity and only 2 hours from Puerto Vallarta and 3 hours to Guadalajara gives it a central location for 2 international airports, a real Mexican town with a pop. of about 8500 with a few day trippers from PV tourists...


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## RickS (Aug 6, 2009)

Yes chico. Yes. I stated that I misread the altitude part. Sorry. Mea Culpa. My Bad!


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Der Wanderer said:


> Hola Mexicanos,
> 
> this is my first text here, so please have a heart.
> 
> ...


To be honest - even at 1800m it can get hot - particularly if you are working in the sun at midday. You will want a nice big hat. Having said that, you probably wouldn't need A/C but you will want fans, particularly at night to sleep (and cancel the noises). You may want a fireplace at other times. 

But it can be incredible the variety of things you can grow. The other thing to consider is the rainy season which can go on for 4-6 months (perhaps not as bad as Guatemala). A realtor will tell you it only rains at night, but experience may tell you differently. And it is not unusual to have winds as strong as a Cat 1 hurricane (normally at night).

Edit : internet is very variable. 2 people living 1/4 mile from each other can have totally different access. We are currently very happy with 20mbps which is good enough to stream shows etc.


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## Der Wanderer (Mar 13, 2017)

Wow!
Many thanks for your friendlyness to all of you. I am honestly overwhelmed. 
I marked all your tipps in my map and the right region seems pretty clear - I absolutely love the result! I did not find a way to upload here, but the area for me must be west of Lake Chapala.

Almost 30 years ago I made a driving license in Waco, bought a (remember I am german) huuuuuge Ford LTD wreck for 400 bucks and drove to Guatemala (and to many NP in USA). When we came to Chiapas and entered Guatemala I thought that must be the most wonderful place on the planet.

30 years later I have almost been everywhere and I love a lot of places. But if you ever have been in Latin America and tasted the freedom... 
I have been almost ten years outside Europe now and I would not mind at all to go home. Europe is an interesting place, 100km ride brings you into another world. In Latinland you get in Texas beans&eggs for breakfast and in Panama as well - Europe is very different. But Europe is under attack and I think that political errors destroy her right now. 
To go home or not to go home - that is the question. I feel I could make the mistake of my life. 
So I looked for residency. 

Citlali says: "Antigua Guatemala has a wonderful climate like the Ajijic area..."
So why not Guatemala? 
A residency is not that easy to get. In Guatemala you need for everything a "fiador" (trustee?, a guy who pays if you do not) - nobody trusts noone. Or you get a monthly (retirement) check - but I am too young, the interests rates are negative and I have no outrented house. Bye-bye they say. And whats about my savings? Savings are without any importance. Why? They do not trust nobody!
I never thought about Mexico. Three days ago I found out - at least I understand it so - that Mexico would accept me, because I have some euro on my account. Or if buy a house, I get residency as well. That would be paradise for me. A perfect solution. 

Some words to my altitude wish.... I lived in the andes at almost 4000m (every movement is work, I lost from 112 to 86kg in less than two month) - I loved it but this is not retirement place. I lived on the coast of subsahara africa (I sweat the matrace wet, short sleeps, no really recoverings / filling batteries, you sit in a shadow place, hope for a breeze and do not move) - I hated it and everything rots, leather, paper, and the USB ports of my laptops rusted.
So I thought between the one and the other should be perfect. ;-)


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## TurtleToo (Aug 23, 2013)

RickS said:


> Yes chico. Yes. I stated that I misread the altitude part. Sorry. Mea Culpa. My Bad!


Rare is the person who takes criticism in stride with such equanimity and good humor. Much appreciated! 

.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Guatemala is one of my favourite places on the entire planet. Tepoztlán, Morelos, is another. Located about an hour south of Mexico City and 20 minutes from Cuernavaca (the City of Eternal Spring, another echo of Guate), Tepoz is technically at 1700 m altitude, but you can control that by choosing your location within the municipality (likewise for Cuernavaca, well known for its "microclimates"). In Tepoztlan, we have friends who live at 1500 m, our house is at about 1800 m, and some other friends are at nearly 2000 m. The weather is glorious.

It is one of Mexico's "Pueblos Mágicos" and is also known for many UFO sightings (I'm still hoping to see one ... ). Being on the edge of a national protected forest, the air is very clean and restorative. I'm also pretty sure they have kale in the market.

If you really want less than 1500 m, nearby Oaxtepec might fit the bill. Cuernavaca also has locations <1500 m. Check out elevationmap.net for more precise elevation data anywhere in the world. Good luck!


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## AnneLM (Aug 16, 2016)

Wanderer, There is a big difference between 4000 m and 1500 when it comes to altitude acclimation. If you can adjust your upper end to, say 2200 you will have many more options. At 4000 I am nauseated and can hardly move my feet, but I only feel 2200 for a day or two.


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## Der Wanderer (Mar 13, 2017)

horseshoe846 said:


> To be honest - even at 1800m it can get hot - particularly if you are working in the sun at midday. You will want a nice big hat. Having said that, you probably wouldn't need A/C but you will want fans, particularly at night to sleep (and cancel the noises). You may want a fireplace at other times.
> 
> But it can be incredible the variety of things you can grow. The other thing to consider is the rainy season which can go on for 4-6 months (perhaps not as bad as Guatemala).


This is what I love in Guate so much - you get a lot of fruits and veges. What surprised me most was, they smoke sausages and meat in the small villages - that is something I can really miss. And the quality of food is excellent (if you avoid supermarket pollos and find "pollos de patio").

The rainy season is not bad in Guate. I do not own car but bike and if I make it home before 1pm it is dry - always. 

@AnneLM Right I know, but all I needed was a starting point. Mex is a huge country. So I am pleased that many of our members here pointed me into a certain reagion. I am now watching yt videos to these villages and regions. I will rent something, send my stuff there and then I can run around and find the real place to settle.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Der Wanderer said:


> This is what I love in Guate so much - you get a lot of fruits and veges. What surprised me most was, they smoke sausages and meat in the small villages - that is something I can really miss. And the quality of food is excellent (if you avoid supermarket pollos and find "pollos de patio").
> 
> The rainy season is not bad in Guate. I do not own car but bike and if I make it home before 1pm it is dry - always.
> 
> @AnneLM Right I know, but all I needed was a starting point. Mex is a huge country. So I am pleased that many of our members here pointed me into a certain reagion. I am now watching yt videos to these villages and regions. I will rent something, send my stuff there and then I can run around and find the real place to settle.


Well we have had different experiences. I lived for two years just outside Guatemala City and the rains there were the most torrential I have ever seen in my 60+ years, often washing away roads and lasting for DAYS. I lived in South Florida for over 30 years and weathered several sizable hurricanes and while the winds in Guatemala were not as bad as in Florida the rains were much worse in Guatemala. You must have lived at a lower elevation in Guatemala than I - because there is no way (and I was in very good shape) I would have ever ridden a bike.

Here in Mexico we have come to love arrachera, cecina and barbecued lamb tacos.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

The food in Mexico is way superior to the food in Guatemala in my opinion. I do not remember having any memorable food in Guatemala. the everyday food is pretty bland and uninteresting.
German and Swiss came to work in the coffee industry in Guatemala and Chiapas so they probably had some influence on some food. In Chiapas they call the coffee growing area around Tapachula "little Switzerland" and in many indigenous communities will call all Europeans Alemanes ..


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

citlali said:


> The food in Mexico is way superior to the food in Guatemala in my opinion. I do not remember having any memorable food in Guatemala. the everyday food is pretty bland and uninteresting.
> German and Swiss came to work in the coffee industry in Guatemala and Chiapas so they probably had some influence on some food. In Chiapas they call the coffee growing area around Tapachula "little Switzerland" and in many indigenous communities will call all Europeans Alemanes ..


I ate fearlessly in Guatemala and that was a mistake. At one point I had hepatitis and dysentery at the same time and had to sit in a hospital until they could isolate the cause. After that I ate almost exclusively at a very good Argentine steak house - although there was also an excellent German restaurant.

My work in Guatemala required me to visit the most remote areas - and I saw some remarkable things. There were large sized villages with beautiful blonde haired, very tanned, blue-eyed people. Obviously some Germanic people at some point came over and melded with the Guatemaltecos (and prospered).


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

citlali said:


> The food in Mexico is way superior to the food in Guatemala in my opinion. I do not remember having any memorable food in Guatemala. the everyday food is pretty bland and uninteresting.
> German and Swiss came to work in the coffee industry in Guatemala and Chiapas so they probably had some influence on some food. In Chiapas they call the coffee growing area around Tapachula "little Switzerland" and in many indigenous communities will call all Europeans Alemanes ..


I don't have much experience with Guatemala but that was not my experience. The tortillas were great, hand made three times a day. The black bean dishes there were great. This was in Antigua and the Lake Atitlán area.


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## TwoBlackfoot (Jul 31, 2016)

To me 1500m is about the perfect altitude in the region that I live. Not too cold, Not too hot. Goldilocks would like it there.

Of the villages in the Sierra Gorda of Queretaro, where I live, I would recommend Santa Inez in the municipality of Landa de Matamoros. Another nice option is San Antonio-Tancoyol in the municipality of Jalpan. Both are quiet towns, and not too far off the beaten path.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

ojosazules11 said:


> If you really want less than 1500 m, nearby Oaxtepec might fit the bill. Cuernavaca also has locations <1500 m.


And "greater" Cuernavaca has locations >1500m 

I'm not sure about Oaxtepec - but we could live in Lomas de Cocoyoc. But that would depend on just how accessible the stores in Cuatla were - because I would not want to take the drive into Cuernavaca regularly. In fact - I'm not sure I'd want to take the ride into Cuernavaca from Tepoz regularly. If you live in Tepoz where is the nearest Mega ?


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

horseshoe846 said:


> And "greater" Cuernavaca has locations >1500m
> 
> I'm not sure about Oaxtepec - but we could live in Lomas de Cocoyoc. But that would depend on just how accessible the stores in Cuatla were - because I would not want to take the drive into Cuernavaca regularly. In fact - I'm not sure I'd want to take the ride into Cuernavaca from Tepoz regularly. If you live in Tepoz where is the nearest Mega ?


We buy most of our food and day to day stuff in _mercados _ and local _tiendas _not supermarkets. We might stock up on the non-food items (toilet paper, detergent, etc.) from larger stores when we are in either Yautepec, Cuernavaca, or Cuautla. 

There is a Walmart and Sam's Club along the highway between Oaxtepec and Cuautla, so fairly close to Lomas de Cocoyoc.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

ojosazules11 said:


> We buy most of our food and day to day stuff in _mercados _ and local _tiendas _not supermarkets. We might stock up on the non-food items (toilet paper, detergent, etc.) from larger stores when we are in either Yautepec, Cuernavaca, or Cuautla.
> 
> There is a Walmart and Sam's Club along the highway between Oaxtepec and Cuautla, so fairly close to Lomas de Cocoyoc.


I also mostly shop in a local mercado. When I first moved here, I would walk 15 minutes to a Soriana. My Spanish was minimal, and I wasn't completely comfortable with the system in the mercado that was 5 minutes away. However, after a couple of years, I moved closer to the mercado (2 minutes), my Spanish improved, and I learned how everything works in the mercado. Now I rarely visit Soriana or Mega Comercial. 

You really don't need much Spanish, mostly just knowing the numbers and "serian todo" is sufficient. It is different from a supermarket however. The prices are rarely marked. People often total the bill on a piece of paper with a pencil. And vendors frequently don't have change and have to take your money to one of their neighbors to make change. These differences can be a nuisance, quaint, or a more human experience depending on the attitude you bring to the market.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

ojosazules11 said:


> We buy most of our food and day to day stuff in _mercados _ and local _tiendas _not supermarkets. We might stock up on the non-food items (toilet paper, detergent, etc.) from larger stores when we are in either Yautepec, Cuernavaca, or Cuautla.
> 
> There is a Walmart and Sam's Club along the highway between Oaxtepec and Cuautla, so fairly close to Lomas de Cocoyoc.


We have never been to the large box stores along 115 that you mentioned except for the HomeDepot in Cuatla which is HUGE compared to the one in Cuernavaca and has better variety. We have tried the local carnicero a couple times and the meats looked great in his store but when they came off our grill the quality just wasn't close to the meat we get at Costco (which is double the price). Every so often we take a ride into Tepoz for a Sunday breakfast. There are a couple places we enjoy and by eating breakfast early we beat the crowds. When I visit Tepoz on a weekend I try to be on my way home by 10AM. I have been known to stop by the mercado in Tepoz and have lamb tacos 1/2 hour after finishing breakfast. We also pick up some fresh fruit.

Inflation in Mexico is nowhere more apparent than in Costco. We have been members there for many years both in the US and Mexico. Every other week or so we look forward to their 'coupon' book which comes out on Mondays. This week - no more coupons. I checked the US website - no coupons there either. I heard recently that profits were down and therefore they were raising membership fees. They seem to be replacing US products with those from Mexico - and I'm sorry to say they often don't compare. The US products and shrinking in size (but not in price).


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

I do my food shopping at several different places in my neighborhood: Superama for most things, a truck parked on the street that sells fruit and vegetables, another truck selling delicacies from Oaxaca like cheese and healthy snacks, and the Sunday tianguis for great deals on produce plus live plants and barbacoa (!) . I'm lucky to live in an area where I can walk to all of these places in just a few minutes.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

Der Wanderer said:


> So I kindly ask you to give me ideas of villages on higher grounds. Where in perfect climate one can get old. I imagine me in a garden with own veges and fruits, where I must do a little twice a week. I do not need fancy stuff or shopping malls, but clean air and some tranquility. And fast internet of course.
> 
> Many thanks!


Seems like we're drifting to suggestions about Costco and other big box stores here, and it doesn't look like the OP considers having them nearby to be a priority. Just a guess.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Isla Verde said:


> I do my food shopping at several different places in my neighborhood: Superama for most things, a truck parked on the street that sells fruit and vegetables, another truck selling delicacies from Oaxaca like cheese and healthy snacks, and the Sunday tianguis for great deals on produce plus live plants and barbacoa (!) . I'm lucky to live in an area where I can walk to all of these places in just a few minutes.


We have 2 Superamas 'near' us. I think they are owned by Walmart. There are some US products that Superama has that we have not found elsewhere. We once found bagged fresh Idaho potatoes and Uncle Bens wild rice. Prices are somewhat more than walmart or Mega but less than Costco. From time to time we pre-order a large (good quality) prime rib. They can get some really good cuts of meat if you ask.


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

perropedorro said:


> Seems like we're drifting to suggestions about Costco and other big box stores here, and it doesn't look like the OP considers having them nearby to be a priority. Just a guess.


Oh I don't know - have you ever seen those early morning TV ads where some real-estate group is trying to tell you that someplace like Belize is the ideal place to retire. They will show a beautiful tranquil bay with not a structure in sight - perhaps a couple walking hand in hand in perfectly white clothing. Have you ever been to Belize ? Can you imagine a real-world couple's impressions 1 week into their retirement ?


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## izzenhood (Jun 8, 2013)

As the OP indicated in one post that he might like the area west of Lake Chapala, perhaps we should continue the thread in that vein.

I post on several boards, and I'm never sure whether it is allowed to post links, especially those of other boards.

Anyway, here are a couple from the Lake Chapala area.

Inside Lakeside - Lake Chapala, Ajijic, and communities

Forums - Chapala.com Webboard


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## Der Wanderer (Mar 13, 2017)

perropedorro said:


> Seems like we're drifting to suggestions about Costco and other big box stores here, and it doesn't look like the OP considers having them nearby to be a priority. Just a guess.


I have to pack up my stuff as movement day comes closer. Cannot be here too much time. I know I should maintain my thread more and better... I am a little under time pressure.
Mexico was - better is a very last minute idea. Job sends me home and I feel that western Europe is... well becoming a caliphate, going in to civil war - I honestly do not know how to put it, but I am afraid of what might come. Crime rates are sky high.
Then I found out about Mexico. I will go to the embassy and ask for a way how to receive residency.
As I told before, many countries are on the retirement trip. You are invited to stay, if you can prove monthly payments. Preferably by a retirement fund. That these funds are all bankrupt - that the whole system is toast - is not in their plannings. My savings are in other places as I know for 30 years that the retirement funds would collapse (before me ). 
A week ago I heard that Mexico accepts foreigners with proven solvency. This is a huge difference to other countries and is a lot closer to (my) reality.
...
As Mexico is huge I needed some ideas, where foreigners live. I do speak spanish fluently but life is more than that. 
So I asked here, where I should put up my "base camp"? From where shall I start to find my place? Where should I send my stuff to? ...and most of you painted a triangle: Tepic - Colima - lake Chapala.

So perropedorro is right, these discussions are way to deep for me. [But I do not mind as a forum must "live" and "breathe".] I even do not understand, what horseshoe846 says:

"Inflation in Mexico is nowhere more apparent than in Costco. We have been members there for many years both in the US and Mexico. Every other week or so we look forward to their 'coupon' book which comes out on Mondays. This week - no more coupons. I checked the US website - no coupons there either. I heard recently that profits were down and therefore they were raising membership fees. They seem to be replacing US products with those from Mexico - and I'm sorry to say they often don't compare. The US products and shrinking in size (but not in price). "
- What is costco?
- One has to be a member?
- What is a coupon book?
No do not answer this - I just took it as an example to answer perropedorro's question. This is simply not my world.

Germans go into a store and buy their toilet paper without any membership card and coupon booklet (I think Latins behave here like Germans ).

The things I get out of a supermarket are mostly toilet paper, washing powder and milk. I buy on markets and live of fresh everything.

But if one is the only expat around, one does not get stuff one needs - which is in my case mostly a part for my motorbike. Or a cloth in XXXL. A bike mechanic.... etc

Do not worry - my questions are answered....

But as we open up this forum I'd like to ask one question more:
I will need to rent a little unfurnished small place to ditch my stuff and later buy a house - Could you provide me with the most frequented internet market link for renting/buying of housing (no agents please). Thanks.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Der Wanderer said:


> …
> 
> But as we open up this forum I'd like to ask one question more:
> I will need to rent a little unfurnished small place to ditch my stuff and later buy a house - Could you provide me with the most frequented internet market link for renting/buying of housing (no agents please). Thanks.


Your comment about Costco was amusing. It is too easy to get wrapped up in our own world and assume the rest of the world has the same perspective. Costco is a large (so-called "big box", because they tend to sell things in large quantities) membership store. you have to pay an annual fee to shop there. They sell a wide range of items from groceries to mattresses and everything in between.

But to get to your question about rentals online. Information about rental online tends to come from agents. Most individuals with rentals do not advertise them on the internet. Craigslist may be an exception for the 14 cities in Mexico that Craigslist covers, so you could try it. But it will include a small fraction of the rentals that would be available if you were on the ground in the city. Also Craigslist rentals tend to be expensive since they are mainly aiming at foreigners. The most effective way to find a place to rent, in my opinion, is to pick the city and neighborhood, then walk or drive around looking for "Se renta" signs. To do this, of course, you would have to book a short term stay for a week or so with a hotel, hostel, or AirBnB.


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## RickS (Aug 6, 2009)

Ditto what Tundra said about finding habitacion without an 'agent'. It is called 'on the ground'. But if you are serious about Mexico I would have the following thoughts:
+ Follow thru with your embassy idea and see if your solvency meets the test
+ If you are 'packing a lot of stuff', think about how to move it and about custom's requirements
+ Book yourself a trip to Guadalajara, either initially or 'for good' with whatever means of transportation you have. I say Guadalajara as it is central to a bunch of places that seem to meet your criteria and a rental or temporary quarters will be easy to find.
+ FROM THERE, you can visit any number places that might meet your needs AND you will there and basically only there be able to determine for yourself a good fit. Habitacion 'without agents' will require you to be on site and that's the best way anyway.
+ Pick a spot among your possibilities and..... enjoy!


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## rohbear (Feb 28, 2017)

RickS said:


> I personally would take Monterrey off Tundra's list due to your comment about clean air. Monterrey is seriously polluted. Tepic might fit your bill 'tho and the elevation is OK.
> 
> I would add the state of Colima, maybe even Colima city (it's not that large) or some village in the state. Maybe Comala outside Colima City or Tecoman closer to the ocean. Colima City is probably 500 meters and Tecoman not much more than 50.
> 
> Up the road from Colima City is Cuidad Guzman (state if Jalisco) a nice little city but the elevation might be approaching your 1500 meter max. Another possibility is Las Varas Jalisco. Tons of fruits being grown in this region. Almost totally Mexican. It is about 10 miles away from the ocean and the little gem of a hideout called Chacala, but expect some ****** year-arounders there....but mainly an out of the way little bay just meant for.... doing nothing and enjoying doing so!


I've heard that Tecoman has some drug cartel issues.

I'm looking forward to checking out Colima City in 2 weeks. 

Las Varas is in Nayarit, right?


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## RickS (Aug 6, 2009)

Yes, Las Varas is in Nayarit.


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## Der Wanderer (Mar 13, 2017)

Monday morning - back from the embassy and the info "Write an email to this address!".

So, after my letter, I am in the hands of Mexico. 
According to the rules I read on migration online, I should be able to pass. The question is, how long would the migrating process need and would Mexico want to charge the household. 

RickS says "But if you are serious about Mexico". 
As I lived over 10 years in Latinamerica I do not see why I should not be serious. Most expats make it "from Germany to Spain, live there in a street with german neighbours, go to a german bakery, a german supermarket..." you get the point. 

F.e. in Central (not South) america people like to speak english with me as I look gringolike. But it is hard work for my brain to switch from spanish to english, so no favour for me. But in Spain, people speak spanish with me and then ask three times "Do you really understand what I say?" - so unbelievable seems it to them that this guy can catch the info. 

No it depends on Mexico now. For me it is not a big deal to move to another country (again) especially if I speak the language. The big deal would be to receive acceptance in form of residency. To give residency is an act of goodwill and I would feel honored to receive it. 

I will let you know, what happened. 

Goodbye and many thanks to all of you! This forum has been a HUGE help for me.


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## Der Wanderer (Mar 13, 2017)

*last feedback....*

Well friends, I will not move to Mexico. 
I am very sad and I needed two days to change the reality of my future as all is ready for the Mexican move for 5 weeks....

I am in Guatemala with all my belongings and I can move back to Europe or to Mexico. The move to Europe is 30% cheaper(!) than the one to the neighbour country and the shipper said as explanation "Mexico is very difficult!". 
I did not believe his words as I had received my permanent residency visa without problems by providing bank accounts copies. So I felt sure and very welcomed - and this was my big mistake.

I did a very clear list of my belongings according to the Mexican rules and after 15 days long waiting for a date in the Consulate, the lady said "do it again like this". And after 90 sec I was dismissed with a copy of another example to make the list. 

So now I must open and unpack the boxes again as it is not "Ropa" anymore but "Ropa dama" or "Ropa hombre", the things must be packed separatly so no towels with bedsheets - to be honest, we talk here about a 50 hours work, I will have way more (then halffilled) boxes and all under the risk that next time they treat me again like a beggar.

When you northamericans cross the border, is lady stuff left and man stuff right side in the boot - no, all is in one suitcase. The difference is, that if one stays to the official rules, the movement of household is made impossible. 

I remember that the customs waved my thru when I drove in from USA 25y ago - there was no control at all.
And I felt save with my visa. 
My business background made me think:
- I made my money
- I am well educated
- I speak spanish
So I can easily blend in and live a happy mexican life. 
I thought "after 4 years you could become a Mexican".

And it all goes down the drain, because my wifes socks are with mine in the same box, because a I put bed sheets and towels together and dates in the Consulate come with half a month distance.

I am now 5 weeks on the Mexican move and I feel they do not want to let my stuff in. I cannot do too much as all is packed and closed, so no income generation, it is a standby. How many times would they say "come back in 2 weeks - dissmissed!" to me again? 

I remember a similar situation in subsahara Africa, there as well the treatment by officials was terrible. My experience and instinct tell me, that even if I would make this hurdle, they will give me another and another and another and in the end a big custom-bill. 

As I am also under time pressure to leave this country, I cannot afford this wait and see treatment by Mexico. The decision is therefore to go back to Europe.
I am heartbroken. 

A Mexican friend said I should try it over the Mexican Embassy in Germany, where no Latinos del sur are and beg for entry. She thinks that there I would get treated better. But sending my stuff to Germany and then back to Mexico seems complete loco to me.

Anyway - this is my last post here. I promised a feedback. I expected to send it from Mexico but no.
Lucky you - you live my dream... 
All the best to all of you - Goodbye!


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Are you sure that at some point you didn't give someone a hard time ? 

Our menaje was the simplest thing and was a single sheet of paper - with no dollar amounts at all. It contained line items like (for example); 6 boxes of used clothing, 5 boxes of used books, 2 used desktop computers with 3 monitors, 1 flat screen TV etc. All our electronics were wrapped in brand new bath towels. We received our menaje on the same day we received our RP pre-approval from the Embassy. There were a lot of things on our approved menaje which in the end we couldn't bring due to space. But - we did not use a shipper - we loaded up a trailer and drove ourselves here.

Maybe you were too 'accurate' ?


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## Der Wanderer (Mar 13, 2017)

"Too accurate?"
You mean too German? ;-)

Maybe your move was many years ago?
I have to "explain my list under oath to tell the truth".
Then you have to be accurate. I worked hard for the list and learnt new spanisch words like "soldering iron".

There was not much time for misunderstandings as few words were spoken. 
This whole situation, which makes me so afraid, could it be, that they want it simpler....? I have to admit: yes that could be, but 
- that is not what I sensed.
- the official way to do it from internet is what I did.
- that is not what my shipper told me.

So could my shipper be exaggerating which gave me a wrong interpretation?
I am unsure now, if I was biased...

See, when I received my visa, the clerk asked, why I wanted to move to Mexico. I did not understand the idea of that question as I felt invited as wealthy enough and therefore worthy. So I told the truth and said "I am extremely afraid about the political changes in Germany and EU". And the look I received was disbelief with astonishment.

I must admit - yes you could be right.

I just went thru the valley of sadness...
You know the movie "The perfect storm", horseshoe? 
I ask myself if this is the moment of sunshine, when the boat enters the eye of the hurricane...

Thank you - I can try it one more time and then I know it once and for all.


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

I think you picked the wrong shipping agent. I have spoken to several about our upcoming transfer of household goods from the US and some are crazy picky and others are more relaxed in their requirements. The more strict ones are just trying to avoid any possible problem with the Mexican customs broker agent at the border. Time is money for the shipping companies and so they go over the top on their Menaje demands to make sure the crossing will be as fast and problem free as possible.

Another thought: It sounds like you are letting your possessions define your future. Are you sure you want to do that? If you really want to live in Mexico, do so! You could sell most of your stuff in Guatemala and bring what would fit into a single vehicle. Or store what doesn't fit and make several trips. There are a number of options and, after all, they are only material items that can mostly be replaced, right?


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Just curious, why are you in Guatemala and did not enter Mexico directly from Germany?


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## horseshoe846 (Feb 8, 2017)

Der Wanderer said:


> "Too accurate?"
> You mean too German? ;-)
> 
> Maybe your move was many years ago?
> ...


My grandparents were German...

We moved here almost five years ago. I promise you that our menaje was not as 'granular' as soldering iron. As I packed I threw stuff into a box and then before closing it up I looked at the contents and in my mind I labelled the contents. So if I had a drill / soldering iron / drill bits / hammer etc in a box it got labeled 'hand tools' on the menaje.

When we had the conversation at the Embassy as to why we wanted to move to Mexico we said - We love Mexico and want to spend the rest of our lives there. We have no intention of ever coming back to the US.

Regarding the Perfect Storm - I remember it well. My employer insisted that I fly to Europe on a moment's notice and the only ticket available was first class. So coming back the flight returned to land over Newfoundland (sp ?) or so and I got to watch the storm all the way down the east coast of the US to Florida sipping champagne.


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## Der Wanderer (Mar 13, 2017)

Dear friends.
I tried again, changed the whole style of my list to the example I had received - all seemed ok.
Unfortunately I made my appointement under "certificates" and for menaje I must ask an appointement under "pasaportes". So I was send away at the gate and may come back with a new appointment in 2-3 weeks. I am six weeks into this process now and there is no assurance not to fail again. 
Six weeks with all packed in - I lost and lose income as I cannot work as I normally would - I must take "stop/loss" now. I must!
And whenever I do that - it hurts! 
It seems as if destiny does not want me in Mexico. At least not from here. This error would not have happened at the Mexican consulate in Germany, I guess, as my german is a little better than my spanish. But who knows? Maybe they prefer direct neighbour nation expats like you are - which I would understand perfectly.
I am not as sad as last time, as I was already adapted to disappointments. But it is still bitter. 

So this time I leave this forum for good. 
*Please do not answer to me as I will not reply.*

My deepest thanks to all of you. You were very kind and nice to me. I wished I could have given back a bit in the future....

Goodbye!


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## circle110 (Jul 20, 2009)

It's too bad it didn't work out for Der Wanderer. Maybe he gave up too easily?
I'm not a fan of using facilitators but it sounds like in this case it could have made all the difference.


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## CasaColibri (Jul 5, 2017)

I've lived 20 years in the mountains just above Guanajuato Capital, located in the geographic center of Mexico. Air is clean. Not too hot during the day, good cool "sleeping weather" at night. I'm about to retire and I'm staying RIGHT HERE! P.S. Also have good German friends here, Der Wanderer.


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