# That's what we get for being honest...



## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

I know - many residents of Mexico use addresses of relatives in the States. Still others use PO/mail forwarding addresses. But we were doing our best to be honest about where we truly live. A month or so back when I logged into the Bank of America website they threw up a popup asking if I was a dual-national. That concerned me a little. Then today we received an email from Citi...

"We are writing to inform you that your Citi® / AAdvantage ® Gold World Elite™ MasterCard® will be closed and you will no longer be able to make any transactions using your card as of April 23, 2021 because Citi no longer services U.S. Card products with a mailing address in your country of residence. Your creditworthiness wasn't a factor in our decision. "

That wouldn't be the end of the world except our American Airline frequent flyer miles are tied to that card and we have a pretty decent number of miles left. Yes - there are alternative ways to preserve those miles but the use of that card was a pretty easy way.

Sometimes it feels as though this new fangled world we live in is screwing with us.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

That's too bad, I feel your annoyance. At least you have the consolation that you don't have to pay for all the overhead associated with keeping a US "presence".

Mail scanning and forwarding services cost money, I'm paying about $200 a year for the scanning and then around $50 every time I want a batch forwarded (which is typically once or twice a year). Some people get it for free from relatives, but I don't have anyone in the right state or that I'd feel comfortable asking to do that.

On top of that, I keep a US telephone number active (cellphone), that's even more expensive (around $55 a month), but I think soon I will be able to switch to a cheaper alternative for that (google Fi).

Besides credit cards and bank accounts, my greater worry is that I would get jettisoned by my broker and retirement account holders. Since I think I can do enough better with US-based investment accounts, (with their greater investment choices), I believe I can easily cover the cost of maintaining a US "presence" so I just pay the overhead, for now. 

Good luck transferring those air miles.


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## Rammstein (Jun 18, 2016)

MangoTango said:


> I know - many residents of Mexico use addresses of relatives in the States. Still others use PO/mail forwarding addresses. But we were doing our best to be honest about where we truly live. A month or so back when I logged into the Bank of America website they threw up a popup asking if I was a dual-national. That concerned me a little. Then today we received an email from Citi...
> 
> "We are writing to inform you that your Citi® / AAdvantage ® Gold World Elite™ MasterCard® will be closed and you will no longer be able to make any transactions using your card as of April 23, 2021 because Citi no longer services U.S. Card products with a mailing address in your country of residence. Your creditworthiness wasn't a factor in our decision. "
> 
> ...


I got one of those messages from Citibank too. I have had the credit card account since the 80's. Just makes things more complicated here.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Regarding the US phone - we do have a MagicJack gizmo (around $50 US with shipping from Amazon). You need to have your own handset. That $50 includes 1 year service. They have an app for the phone which will ring through to the cell in Mexico. That currently is the only way I have to receive a text message from the US. Their service is dependent on the quality of your Mexican ISP. 

Schwab actually flew a guy down to Mexico City to meet with us maybe five years back. (Not that we are that big a client - I hope he had other meetings scheduled). Things change I know - but he insisted that Schwab really wanted the international business. Trying to get someone on the phone now-a-days is reminiscent of the Dell customer service of the 80/90's.

I, stubbornly, refuse to put monies into the US stock market and the US credit market returns are a joke at this point. We keep some money in T-Bills (for now) but we kind of live off the interest from our CETES (and 1 social security check). I was inches away from exchanging some dollars for pesos this week - but I had 21:1 as a target.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Rammstein said:


> I got one of those messages from Citibank too. I have had the credit card account since the 80's. Just makes things more complicated here.


I think the world is going through some changes. More than ever it important to have strong relationships in Mexico. For me - these dollar based credit cards are just a poor man's way of playing the currency swings (pretty much). Well that and the credit limits on our US cards is much higher than the Mexican ones (for emergencies). 

Citi is something. At one point - at the suggestion of a friend - we had a patrimonial account at Banamex (as in CitiBanamex). They had a US rep visiting one day who tried to talk us into opening a Citi US account. I don't think you would believe me if I told you their minimum amount to open an account. We all had a good laugh.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I have Schwab, and I have the US credit union account I had before I got schwab, and I recently (finally) got a Mexican banamex account. When I finish getting net backing set up for that, my next goal was going to be a US-based dollar-based account with Citi - because I hope that makes it easy to transfer money to banamex. (Although I can get some number of free wires a quarter from schwab). 

So don't leave me guessing, how much did they want? Was it their gold card? That has high minimums I know. But I figured they have something a little more ... plebeian.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

What is it that makes you think that a Citi to Banamex money transfer is a good thing ?

What makes it better than a Schwab to Banamex transfer ?


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

I moved down a few dollars from Schwab earlier today. I got an exchange of 20.79 at the moment the mid-market (spot) rate was 20.89. No other fees or charges, period. I think the pesos will hit my Mexican account on or around the 3rd.
(I spoke with a human being in El Paos TX who worked with me to get a good rate).
(They have all my wiring instructions already on file).


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I don't have hard data, I wanted to try and see. They are connected in their corporate structure, so I was hoping for something a bit more like an ACH transfer between the two accounts.

Schwab is very good, I moved an IRA to them so they're happy with me and give me free wires, up to a point. My renovation contractor was asking for a wire every two weeks for a while and I eventually hit the limit on free wires.

Right now my second bank is a credit union that was convenient when I was working back in the US because they had an ATM in the cafeteria. Now the only "special" thing they provide is check deposit by smartphone, which I think I can do with Schwab (haven't tried). So I was thinking to see if I could get a citi account which might be better for me than the credit union. I'd keep Schwab no matter what.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Knock yourself out. But in the end I'll bet you would have ended up with an exchange rate similar to 20.26 (at Citi) on the trade I made today (at Schwab - 20.79). So - if I am correct you would have given Citi an extra 530 pesos on a 1K USD transfer - or 5300 peoso on 10K USD transfer or ...

And for all of you (Visa) ATM/debit card users out there - today you would have received 20.35 - but the difference is you would have the pesos in hand while I have to wait until the 3rd for mine. This stuff starts to add up.

But please - correct me if I am wrong.


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## Rvgirl42 (May 27, 2020)

MangoTango said:


> I know - many residents of Mexico use addresses of relatives in the States. Still others use PO/mail forwarding addresses. But we were doing our best to be honest about where we truly live. A month or so back when I logged into the Bank of America website they threw up a popup asking if I was a dual-national. That concerned me a little. Then today we received an email from Citi...
> 
> "We are writing to inform you that your Citi® / AAdvantage ® Gold World Elite™ MasterCard® will be closed and you will no longer be able to make any transactions using your card as of April 23, 2021 because Citi no longer services U.S. Card products with a mailing address in your country of residence. Your creditworthiness wasn't a factor in our decision. "
> 
> ...


Did you ask them if you would lose the miles if the card was cancelled?


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Rvgirl42 said:


> Did you ask them if you would lose the miles if the card was cancelled?


I'm sure we would lose the miles if we did nothing before their April 23rd date. That would hurt because it looks like we have enough miles for about 4 round trip flights for the two of us - to places like Miami or St Croix. Interesting that now-a-days it costs around $150 US (per person) to book a flight using points. At one point my wife was one of American Airlines' best customers. She flew literally millions of miles with them. They really did (do ?) treat such people very well. Even when I flew by myself on business often they would approach me (the husband) and ask - would you like to sit up front ? First class to Europe used to be very special.

Looks like Barclays Bank also has an AAdvantage program. We will have a chat with them. Worst case - I think we can donate the miles to something like Make-A-Wish charity.

They do make it very difficult to be honest at the moment. Most adults have a credit history and the credit card companies use that history to determine credit worthiness. But those agencies (Equifax, TransUnion and Experian) have no concept of an international residency. So - if you want to apply for a new credit card (even one for a company which has no problem with your living in Mexico) you have to answer the 'what is your current address" question with the address which you know is listed as current on your report.


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## ABH0372 (Mar 7, 2021)

MangoTango said:


> They do make it very difficult to be honest at the moment. Most adults have a credit history and the credit card companies use that history to determine credit worthiness. But those agencies (Equifax, TransUnion and Experian) have no concept of an international residency. So - if you want to apply for a new credit card (even one for a company which has no problem with your living in Mexico) you have to answer the 'what is your current address" question with the address which you know is listed as current on your report.


So as an aspiring expat to Mexico from the U.S., how would a citizen living long-term in MX manage their finances? Is it as simple as having your retirement income direct-deposited into your Mexican bank account? Are there intermediaries that have to be involved? Are there resources that someone like me can read up on this kind of thing?

Thanks!


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

ABH0372 said:


> So as an aspiring expat to Mexico from the U.S., how would a citizen living long-term in MX manage their finances? Is it as simple as having your retirement income direct-deposited into your Mexican bank account? Are there intermediaries that have to be involved? Are there resources that someone like me can read up on this kind of thing?
> 
> Thanks!





ABH0372 said:


> So as an aspiring expat to Mexico from the U.S., how would a citizen living long-term in MX manage their finances? Is it as simple as having your retirement income direct-deposited into your Mexican bank account? Are there intermediaries that have to be involved? Are there resources that someone like me can read up on this kind of thing?
> 
> Thanks!


Since moving to Mexico in 2007, I have had my US SS monthly pension payments direct-deposited to my Mexican bank account, in my case, it's Santander. I have my other pension payment direct-deposited to my US bank account at Bank of America.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

How simple it is depends on how simple your finances are to start with. Most expats find it convenient to keep at least one US bank account (with a credit card). Ideally it should have the ability for you to deposit a paper check by smart-phone (just read the other threads about the hassles people here who don't have that are enduring to cash a paper stimulus check they received).

Another thing you want is a bank that gives you an ATM card that reimburses ATM fees, so you can pull cash from a Mexican ATM and not pay the hefty fees charged. Ideally it should also give you a decent exchange rate and not charge a foreign transaction fee if you use the card to buy something. 

If you have taxable brokerage accounts, tax-advantaged brokerage accounts (IRAs, 401ks) you need to decide what to do about those.

Schwab is recommended, as they have all the above banking/ATM features. You need to have a retirement account with them, though, to get all the benefits (which include some free wire transfers, very useful). So if you have an IRA you might consider moving it to schwab well ahead of your relocation.

Whatever US accounts you want to have, you should get them set up before you move.

And if you are a US citizen, you will still be obligated to file federal income taxes in the US even when you move to Mexico. And if you are in a state that requires filing income taxes, leaving that state for Mexico doesn't remove that requirement - they consider you their resident for tax purposes until you establish residency in another of the US states. You can't just stop filing state income taxes without issues. (The best thing is to be a resident of a state that doesn't have income taxes before you move to mexico).

It is possible to live in Mexico without a Mexican bank account, but it is easier if you have one, and if you get one you need to learn about FATCA, FINRE and FBARs, at least a little bit. The Mexican side is generally easier to deal with, it's the US side that has all the rules and restrictions on foreigners.

And if you ever want to fly back to the US for a visit and rent a car, make sure you keep a US credit card (not debit card), as a real credit-card is required by almost all rental agencies.

One thing you won't really need in Mexico is the ability to write paper checks. It may come in quite handy to have a bill pay feature on your US account, so you can send a check to someone in the US from it, but no one in Mexico is going to accept a US paper check for anything.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Nice write-up. I'll just throw in a couple thoughts.

Schwab has different types of clients - like US and international. If you are a non-US customer what you can do is limited AND you are treated differently. At the moment they determine who is calling you are routed to a 'global' customer service area. It is not uncommon to be on hold for 45-60 minutes if you are non-US. I played with it one day and did not enter my correct identifying info and they connected me to a human much more quickly. They also offered me, as a US customer, a call back feature (granted it took 2 hours). A non-US customer has to sit there waiting. Schwab international clients get a debit card but no credit card...

The exchange rate is generally established by whatever company's emblem (Visa/MC) is on the card, and you can look online to determine what today's rate will be (it is good for the whole day). 

Not all credit cards are created equal. Even bank of america, which offers perhaps 5 different cards, only has one card which has no 'foreign transaction fees'. You need to watch that. The blue rewards card is the one you want at BofA. Recently I found that Amazon has a free rewards card very similar.

Even with the simplest checking account at our Mexican banks we are offered a paper checkbook. No one has ever cashed a check I have written (that I can recall) but it doesn't hurt to have the checkbook. On maybe two occasions I have written a check to secure an arrangement. The checks were later returned to me.


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## Stevenjb (Dec 10, 2017)

eastwind said:


> And if you ever want to fly back to the US for a visit and rent a car, make sure you keep a US credit card (not debit card), as a real credit-card is required by almost all rental agencies.


Dollar Rental has a Debit card rental option.






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@MangoTango Calling from Mexico. If you can get a US VOIP number (Google Voice, etc) and use a VPN connected to the US while using the number, your call may appear to be coming from inside the US possibly avoiding the call wait times.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Stevenjb said:


> @MangoTango Calling from Mexico. If you can get a US VOIP number (Google Voice, etc) and use a VPN connected to the US while using the number, your call may appear to be coming from inside the US possibly avoiding the call wait times.


We have a VPN and we have a MagicJack US number. Schwab doesn't care about my phone number.
Schwab takes my SSN or Acct Number and recognizes me as a 'global customer'.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

I have kept my t-mobile US number. This is far from cheapest option, but it is the number on record for the US financial accounts I am keeping. T-mobile has wifi calling, and when I use that I can just dial US numbers as if I'm in the US - and I get routed as if I'm in the US. So it functions as a VPN for phone calls.

I may switch over to magic jack at some point to save money, but in the initial stages of moving I like t-mobile for it's simple choice north america plan and wifi calling.


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## AnneLM (Aug 16, 2016)

Some very good suggestions here. I will chime in with a few comments.
You do need to have a Schwab brokerage account to qualify for the no foreign fee debit card, but it does not have to be a retirement account, and the deposit required is quite modest. My daughter opened one for travel purposes when she was in grad school, and we used one to hold onto monies from the sale of our house.
We also have the 
TMobile North America plan and have used it for over 3 years with no problem. However, it is not intended for constant use outside the US and they have been known to crack down on people who use it too much in Mexico. I keep waiting to get the dreaded warning notice. We try to keep it on WiFi as much as possible, with location turned off.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

There was a post here by someone a couple years ago who got cracked down on and booted off the T-mobile plan, so I have always made sure to use wifi-calling whenever I talk on it. (That also has the advantage that US 800 numbers work the usual way). I limit the amount of roaming data I use, but I've noticed that telcel seems to cut me off after around 500MB each month of roaming data anyway. 

But I have been going on it for 4 1/2 years without a hint of a complaint from t-mobile. Most of that time I have had a phone on a payment plan (I bought a second phone on a trip back to the US a few months after I had the first one paid off). I just recently paid off the second phone. So t-mobile has less incentive to keep me now, but they've never fussed at me.

I think it's possible that their policies have changed, or their deal with telcel has evolved, either because telcel manages it (and cuts you off after a certain amount of roaming data) or just the terms of the deal changed when renewed, and that perhaps t-mobile doesn't care anymore how long or much you roam. 

Telcel plans include free roaming in the US, so I suspect the companies have a reciprocity deal that comes close enough to even that they don't hassle their customers about it anymore.

If they kick me off, I'll just get magic jack or whatever it is that others have recommended. Now that I have (just recently) got a Mexican phone number my t-mobile phone stays at home when I go out anyway.

But for people in transition from the US to Mexico, I think it makes it a lot easier to just keep your t-mobile account open for a while so you don't have to change all your US contact info until your Mexican contact info is stabilized. And maybe you don't want to change your contact info at all, to avoid getting de-nationalized or whatever.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

More details on Schwab: Schwab offers a "High Yield Investor Checking Account". To get it, you have to have a Schwab One Brokerage account. The checking account does not offer international wires, you have to move money to the brokerage account and wire it from there. The checking account is free and has no minimums, and rebates ATM fees.

The Schwab One brokerage account now has no minimums. (I think it used to, but competition in the brokerage space has been consistently lowering commissions and fees). The International Wire fee from a Schwab One brokerage account is $15 if you log in and enter the details of the wire online. 

That's already very competitive, but I get those wire fees rebated. It used to be that you needed $200k in combined accounts to get a certain number of free wires (I think it's 3 per quarter). I couldn't find that info when I looked just now. They are always making their products more competitive. If you have an IRA or brokerage account at a company that isn't giving you benefits, consider moving it to schwab while you are still a US resident. 

They've been very good to me as far as customer service goes, replacing my ATM card twice by international fast courier when it got skimmed (once) and left behind in an ATM (once). But as I say, I have a big IRA account with them.


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## dvinton (Mar 8, 2019)

A comment on T-Mobile. My wife and I have the Magenta Plus Unlimited 55 plan. This includes unlimited data. My experience is if you use too much data (not voice or text), you'll receive a warning text. When we arrived last September, I had my iPhone wide open, pulling a lot of data (Facebook, podcasts, video & music streaming, ...) from the cellular network. It didn't take long for the warnings to arrive. I configured the heavy stuff to only work on wi-fi, and the warnings stopped.

Another comment, wire transfers. Take a look at wise.com. I have a Schwab account, and wiring internationally through their website can be tedious and frustrating. I've had a couple of recipients request I use Wise, and I was impressed at how simple (compared to Schwab) it was. You know your exchange rate upfront, and depending on how you source the funds, cheaper than the $15 Schwab nicks you.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Well, we'll have to disagree there on Schwab. The only way their process could be simpler is if they weren't asking for things they should check to make sure the wire is going where its intended. And I don't pay the $15 fee, I get it waved, so free beats everybody else every time.

Whatever bank you choose, the key point is to get it set up before you move, and to pay attention to how you're going to move money internationally. The same is true for brokerages and retirement accounts.

Some people with very limited assets simply move all of what they have to Mexico, and their only problem is how to get their monthly pension or social security checks deposited. That can be set up to be deposited to a Mexican account. (At least one person here thinks the exchange rates are 'gamed' on the day those deposits are made).

Many people, even including some with very low assets, keep a US account to receive their deposits and manually transfer funds when they need them. That allows you to try to pick a day with a good exchange rate and manage how much money you keep in Mexico.

I think pretty much everyone with investment assets keeps those in the US in US accounts or "international" accounts with the same institutions.

At least until they get kicked out. It's a dont-ask, don't-tell situation. If you maintain a US mailing address and phone number, the institutions usually don't ask you if you have changed your residence, and if you don't volunteer that information, you don't get involuntarily internationalized. As far as I know you aren't legally obligated to call them up and tell them.

Some people don't trust Mexican banks to not fail as much as they trust US banks - there is a system here similar to FDIC insurance, but with lower insured amounts. Some don't really worry about it. I haven't experienced the process so I don't know how long and difficult the process would be. This is my first year with a Mexican bank account, so I'm still learning about the whole FBAR thing. I'm using citi-banamex, so I hope if the Mexican sub got in trouble they'd get bailed out by their parent rather than the government insurance fund.

Some people do invest thousands of dollars in the mexican equivalent of bank CDs, because they give a very good rate. But inflation is higher here than the US, so you have to take that into account, and then you have to file mexican income taxes on the interest (I think). Those people have some protection against wild exchange rate swings because they can draw-down their mexican money if the dollar goes into a tailspin for a couple months. Mostly the swings seem to be in the other direction - the peso will get weak for a while then recover back to the baseline - which is slowly increasing due to inflation being higher here.


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## MangoTango (Feb 8, 2020)

Hmm - my experiences / opinions seem to differ quite a bit... (But I will not claim to be an expert).



eastwind said:


> Well, we'll have to disagree there on Schwab. The only way their process could be simpler is if they weren't asking for things they should check to make sure the wire is going where its intended. And I don't pay the $15 fee, I get it waved, so free beats everybody else every time.


I prefer talking to humans when I can - especially when it comes to money matters. Schwab has (already on file) all the information it needs to complete a currency exchange and move the pesos to my Mexican bank. When I want to transfer money I give them a call and place what amounts to a forex trade (of sorts). The trade is real-time but there is a settlement period. I think they have always waived the $25 fee (without my asking). I would never bother them for anything less than 10K US. Fidelity has a similar scheme.



eastwind said:


> Many people, even including some with very low assets, keep a US account to receive their deposits and manually transfer funds when they need them. That allows you to try to pick a day with a good exchange rate and manage how much money you keep in Mexico.


The 'picking a good day' approach is very valid. But you want to have the monies 'ready' for a move which means they have to be very liquid in the US - like a close to 0% bank account. Also - you need to be aware of what potential transfer fees you could incur between your US financial institutions. For example - let's say you have an account at Bank of America and Schwab. If you log into your Bof A account and say - transfer some money to Schwab (push money to Schwab) - Bof A is going to charge you a percentage. But - if you log into your Schwab account and say - grab some money from BofA (pull money INTO Schwab) - you will incur no charges...



eastwind said:


> I think pretty much everyone with investment assets keeps those in the US in US accounts or "international" accounts with the same institutions.


Except perhaps those people who wish to diversify.



eastwind said:


> At least until they get kicked out. It's a dont-ask, don't-tell situation. If you maintain a US mailing address and phone number, the institutions usually don't ask you if you have changed your residence, and if you don't volunteer that information, you don't get involuntarily internationalized. As far as I know you aren't legally obligated to call them up and tell them.


You can keep telling yourself that as many times as you need to convince yourself you are right. I personally have never looked into the consequences of claiming an invalid address for your primary residence. But in my mind it is like living in California but claiming that I live in Florida (using a US mail service) so that my children can attend University of Florida at residence rate. I'm pretty sure that when you log into your US financial services web account and they ask you right up front "Is this your current legal address" and you answer "Yes", you are doing something wrong.



eastwind said:


> Some people don't trust Mexican banks to not fail as much as they trust US banks - there is a system here similar to FDIC insurance, but with lower insured amounts. Some don't really worry about it. I haven't experienced the process so I don't know how long and difficult the process would be. This is my first year with a Mexican bank account, so I'm still learning about the whole FBAR thing. I'm using citi-banamex, so I hope if the Mexican sub got in trouble they'd get bailed out by their parent rather than the government insurance fund.


I also have a CitiBanamex account and I have 0% expectation that Citi would lift a finger to 'help' Banamex in a crisis. (Actually I suspect it would be Citi which was in crisis). HSBC US is a totally different business entity from HSBC Mexico. Citi is a totally different business entity from CitiBanamex. HomeDepot Mexico is a totally different business entity from Home Depot US...



eastwind said:


> Some people do invest thousands of dollars in the mexican equivalent of bank CDs, because they give a very good rate. But inflation is higher here than the US, so you have to take that into account, and then you have to file mexican income taxes on the interest (I think). Those people have some protection against wild exchange rate swings because they can draw-down their mexican money if the dollar goes into a tailspin for a couple months. Mostly the swings seem to be in the other direction - the peso will get weak for a while then recover back to the baseline - which is slowly increasing due to inflation being higher here.


Couple of points here. A bank CD (or pagare or CEDE) is an investment in the BANK.
There is a percentage of the interest you make at a Mexican bank which is withheld by the bank. For likely 99% of 'investors' that will satisfy any tax due Mexico. I don't think a person, especially a resident expat, is expected to file to reclaim that interest. You should receive an annual statement from the bank reporting; real, nominal and taxes withheld. You need that info for your US tax preparation.
A CETE is an investment similar to a CEDE but is an investment directly with the Bank of Mexico.
A UDIBONO is an investment very similar to a US Treasury TIP (if you have inflation worries). UDIBONOs may be backed by a governmental agency (not sure).
For me, the prices at Costco seem to be going up. As are the prices at Pemex and our natural gas. Silver is fluctuating (but up). Copper I believe is a little down. Otherwise my utilities are pretty stable. 

Again - I'm no expert - in fact far from it.

Edit : Actually a US tax payer would claim the taxes they pay Mexico on their earnings AND of course they would be required to report the interest etc received as well...


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