# What do you do workwise in Spain?



## nimtree (Sep 29, 2015)

I know, what we do for living is very different for every individual , but just trying to find out what everyone does for work and the REAL prospects of finding work in Malaga area. 

I work in the Software industry (Databases / Digital Analytics / Project management), but if there is no work for me in Malaga area / Spain in general, I will keep on working for UK companies (from home, i.e. Spain) , living in Spain, (if it comes to that) Until I find decent work in Spain (not fussed on location for work).

I know there are many companies in Barcelona / Madrid area where they speak English in offices and may have some work matching to my skills but Malaga, Valencia , I am not sure...Please feel free to share your experience.

Thanks


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

I'm a web developer based in Madrid. Yes there is work around in Madrid if you have skills that are in demand and very fluent English, but it really helps if you have reasonable Spanish as well. In fact these days I don't need Spanish at all to do my job, but it's what people use to chat to each other in the office. 

I don't know much about Malaga I'm afraid.


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## nimtree (Sep 29, 2015)

Chopera said:


> I'm a web developer based in Madrid. Yes there is work around in Madrid if you have skills that are in demand and very fluent English, but it really helps if you have reasonable Spanish as well. In fact these days I don't need Spanish at all to do my job, but it's what people use to chat to each other in the office.
> 
> I don't know much about Malaga I'm afraid.


Thanks Chopera, yes I do speak basic Spanish and learning. I am looking to buy a seaside apartment in next 4-6 months. in the meantime I am working on my Spanish :boxing:


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

There is a large Technology Park on the outskirts of Málaga where over 15,000 people are now employed (Parque Tecnologico de Andalucia). There is an employment section on their website, although there seem to be very few vacancies on there at present. Click on Ofertas de Empleo (and there is also the facility to add your CV, although if you are not yet in Spain I am not sure how good the response is likely to be).


http://www.pta.es/es/empleo.cfm#.Vi-l27cvfnA


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

I am hoping to continue the same job I have at home


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

There are a few Malaga based vacancies on the Reed website, so I guess all the major recruitment companies in the area might be worth contacting.

IT & Telecoms jobs in Spain - reed.co.uk


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

Depending on what you mean by Malaga (city or provincia) it is well worth looking at Gibraltar - lots of work there and commutable from Estepona westwards.


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## nimtree (Sep 29, 2015)

jimenato said:


> Depending on what you mean by Malaga (city or provincia) it is well worth looking at Gibraltar - lots of work there and commutable from Estepona westwards.


Interesting...this may work for me...I heard there are some online gaming (read gambling) companies and banks based there. Low tax as well I guess in Gibraltar?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Or Linkedin:-



https://es.linkedin.com/job/empleos-en-malaga/?sort=relevance&page_num=1&trk=jserp_pagination_1


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I know a number of people around here who have jobs where they work online from home. Two of them earn in excess of €100,000 a year (IT based stuff). Someone else I know who is currently in a super income CEO position in UK has a house here (next to ours in fact) and cannot stand how hard he has to work. He is looking to find consultancy work where he can conduct much of it online and fly to wherever he is required whenever he is needed - so he can move here and be happy!! Me? Well, I am retired (early but still getting older apparently) but am now far busier than I ever intended to be, looking after five properties, gardening and teaching maths. Yes, it's a tough life, I hear you say, but I'm the one that's doing it. Soon, I promise, I am going to retire and rewrite that novel I mentioned in another thread... oh, and get the one I wrote 15 years ago published on Kindle...


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I was in Construction and Engineering in the UK, unfortunately as a Quantity Surveyor, a concept which doesn't really exist outside of Anglo Saxon education systems.
In the UK I was earning a very good salary and a company car, private pension etc....

I tried to get a job in Spain before I moved, but it was impossible, if any response was given (usually there was none) it was "contact us again when you are in Spain".

So eventually I moved without work in 2004. I was unemployed, with no income at all for the first 4 months.

Then I got a job in an English speaking call centre just outside Madrid, it was on a contract called "jornada intenisva" where you work 8 hours but effectively without a break, so I started at 8:00 and worked to 16:00. This was five days a week and I was paid 600EUR / month, which at the time was about 15% of what I had earned in the UK. At 16:00 I used to go back into Madrid, pick up an old car that we had been given and drive to 2 or 3 different places to give English lessons on behalf of a private college that took me on for evening classes. That topped up my income to around 900EUR, but I was leaving the house at 7:00 and getting home at 21:30. The costs of attending the classes (the petrol etc.) was of course mine to pay for out of the wages.

Slowly my situation improved and I changed jobs 5 times in the first 4 years, at first getting into the construction industry again, then obtaining recognition of my professional qualififcation and experience by Ministerio de la Vivienda. I became fully fluent in Spanish end eventually became a contracts manager for a large international engineering company in Madrid in 2008.

The day to day language of the company was Spanish, meetings were held in Spanish, the contracts were in Spanish and I wrote contractual letters and documents in Spanish. I write this in the hope that people reading will realise just how important it is to speak, read and write very good Spanish in order to get most professional jobs.

I travelled a lot, to Europe and to South America and later to Asia. It was hard work, long hours, and 9 years after moving from the UK in 2013, I chose to take an international assignment to Thailand. At that time, I still did not earn as much as I had been earning in the UK in 2004 when I quit my job...

Coming to Spain to work from the UK is very, very , very tough.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

I also moved to Madrid at the beginning of 2004 and got a job as a mileurista 2 months later, although I feel I got lucky in that the job was directly related to what I do and it was an English speaking office. After 3 years I felt fluent enough in Spanish to try working in a Spanish company, but it was a chaotic start-up that forced developers to work through the night at times to meet deadlines, so I left after 9 months to work with a US company. I'm still there after 8 years. If I hadn't got that job we'd probably have left Spain because the lower pay didn't justify the hours I was doing.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Workwise, officially - nothing. I am an OAP! Unofficially, I support SWMBO who is an English language teacher for a local academy (23½hrs p.w. during term time [Oct - June, inc.]) and also teaches French to Spanish adults and also does translations and interpretations for Brits and some Spanish, specialising in medical. Odd jobs around the house, walk the dogs, cook sometimes, take care of the laundry, ensure that the log-burner is kept supplied and lit during the heating season, etc.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Nimtree you mentioned the Malaga area. Did you know that the unemployment rate is about 30% and I am sure many of them will be skilled and have highly qualified IT skills too.

I don't know many expats who have gained employment in the region. They are usually self-employed doing DIY, pool cleaning, estate agents, managing and cleaning property etc. One I know is a qualified Teacher and has taught at a British school for 8 years and seems to do ok. Another works from home on the internet sending out loads, and loads of junk mail! Someone mentioned call centres, fine if you don't mind working for boiler room scams conning elderly people in the UK into buying useless land/shares etc. 

On the coast you would be better searching in Gibraltar with your skills.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Overandout said:


> I was in Construction and Engineering in the UK, unfortunately as a Quantity Surveyor, a concept which doesn't really exist outside of Anglo Saxon education systems.
> In the UK I was earning a very good salary and a company car, private pension etc....
> 
> I tried to get a job in Spain before I moved, but it was impossible, if any response was given (usually there was none) it was "contact us again when you are in Spain".
> ...


An interesting post. I'm now retired, do occasional voluntary work but although I have been offered work I'm not interested. I was a Head Teacher and teacher/translator/interpreter in the UK and it seems clear, from reading posts on this forum, that I would not have had the same level of income I enjoyed in the UK if I had moved to Spain whilst of working age. Neither do I think that my partner would have found it as smooth running to have businesses here in Spain.
The phrase 'Spanish dream' has always seemed odd to me. Life in the UK is good if you live in a pleasant neighbourhood, have enough to live on comfortably and enjoy frequent holidays. Working all hours for low pay for the sake of summer sunshine seems like anything but a dream to me.
I can't understand people who say they will 'do anything' to be able to live in Spain. In Spain or anywhere you need enough to live on and not to have to worry about what might happen next week or month.
One thing that strikes me is how low paid many professional jobs are in Spain, compared to the UK, as you have said.


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## Portugal-or-Spain? (Oct 25, 2015)

nimtree said:


> I know, what we do for living is very different for every individual , but just trying to find out what everyone does for work and the REAL prospects of finding work in Malaga area.
> 
> I work in the Software industry (Databases / Digital Analytics / Project management), but if there is no work for me in Malaga area / Spain in general, I will keep on working for UK companies (from home, i.e. Spain) , living in Spain, (if it comes to that) Until I find decent work in Spain (not fussed on location for work).
> 
> ...


Some advice.

I would a) become financially / fiscally resident in Portugal (even if you really / often / mostly live in Spain, but you must fulfil the conditions of course) under the Portuguese Non-Habitual Resident Program, b) have your business based in and paid for in the UK via a UK limited company, c) get a statement from HMRC confirming you are non-UK resident for tax purposes, d) pay yourself dividends only from your UK Ltd company (you will not ultimately be taxed on these by HMRC). I would then have a subsidiary in Spain and pay Social Security / pay yourself the minimum wage for taxes there (you will actually be able to offset more of your living expenses, such as a higher percentage of any apartment rental for business use this way). So you pay some taxes / social security in Spain. The Portuguese will not tax you on your Spanish earnings and / or UK dividends.

I deal in physical products, which is harder for me than for you to do. But I do it.

PS It would be much easier if you lived on the Spanish / Portuguese border of course.

PPS The above is 100% lawful.

PPPS The above combines the best (lowest) of both tax regimes (Portugal has this special "Beckham's Law" residency, Spain by far has the best business taxation system).


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Portugal-or-Spain? said:


> Some advice.
> 
> I would a) become financially / fiscally resident in Portugal (even if you really / often / mostly live in Spain, but you must fulfil the conditions of course) under the Portuguese Non-Habitual Resident Program, b) have your business based in and paid for in the UK via a UK limited company, c) get a statement from HMRC confirming you are non-UK resident for tax purposes, d) pay yourself dividends only from your UK Ltd company (you will not ultimately be taxed on these by HMRC). I would then have a subsidiary in Spain and pay Social Security / pay yourself the minimum wage for taxes there (you will actually be able to offset more of your living expenses, such as a higher percentage of any apartment rental for business use this way). So you pay some taxes / social security in Spain. The Portuguese will not tax you on your Spanish earnings and / or UK dividends.
> 
> ...


You should not post information like this for several reasons:
1. The various tax authorities will pick up on it and the idea will get squashed
2. British MPs will get wind of it and start using it themselves, especially if it works out better than their existing fiddles
3. We don't want the likes of Camoron and Osbroun moving here, one of them might start interfering with the producers of jamón Iberico.


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## Portugal-or-Spain? (Oct 25, 2015)

baldilocks said:


> You should not post information like this for several reasons:
> 1. The various tax authorities will pick up on it and the idea will get squashed
> 2. British MPs will get wind of it and start using it themselves, especially if it works out better than their existing fiddles
> 3. We don't want the likes of Camoron and Osbroun moving here, one of them might start interfering with the producers of jamón Iberico.


 The tax authorities already know about it. Portugal in its desperation to get rich expats to come to Portugal, left certain doors open for normal people (not just the filthy rich), which they can not close.

Cured meat and even red meat causes cancer. It is best that Cameron eats it.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> An interesting post. I'm now retired, do occasional voluntary work but although I have been offered work I'm not interested. I was a Head Teacher and teacher/translator/interpreter in the UK and it seems clear, from reading posts on this forum, that I would not have had the same level of income I enjoyed in the UK if I had moved to Spain whilst of working age. Neither do I think that my partner would have found it as smooth running to have businesses here in Spain.
> The phrase 'Spanish dream' has always seemed odd to me. Life in the UK is good if you live in a pleasant neighbourhood, have enough to live on comfortably and enjoy frequent holidays. Working all hours for low pay for the sake of summer sunshine seems like anything but a dream to me.
> I can't understand people who say they will 'do anything' to be able to live in Spain. In Spain or anywhere you need enough to live on and not to have to worry about what might happen next week or month.
> One thing that strikes me is how low paid many professional jobs are in Spain, compared to the UK, as you have said.


I must agree wholeheartedly with virtually everything you say.

Recently, there was a post on here called "The dream has shattered" or similar, and I was longing to reply saying something along the lines of "why did you think it would be a dream to move to Spain?" but I thought that I would be sounding very negative if I did, so I resisted.

Relocating, from one country to another is hard enough when you are being paid to do so by an employer and all the paperwork and tax issues are taken care of. Doing it all on your own, at your own cost is even worse. Doing it in a country where you don't speak the language makes it one step even harder,then adding the factor that the economic situation is worse in the destination country is hardly a recipe for a dream existence.

However, lots of us do it, and are happy. Believe it or not, I am really looking forward to coming back to Spain, even though I will struggle to find work and will have to take a pay cut. There are more things in life than money.

I would add that my job is quite specialised, and now, the wage difference between UK and Spain has evend out quite a bit. As a result of the crisis, there seem to be less management level jobs available in Spain, but when they come up, they do pay more or less the same as before the crisis. In the UK however, there seem to be just as many jobs as before the crisis, but being significantly lower paid. I guess its just the way that each country's industries have dealt with the squeeze.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Portugal-or-Spain? said:


> The tax authorities already know about it. Portugal in its desperation to get rich expats to come to Portugal, left certain doors open for normal people (not just the filthy rich), which they can not close.
> 
> *Cured meat and even red meat causes cancer*. It is best that Cameron eats it.


So do most things but to a lesser or greater extent. The articles that have recently highlighted those "facts" are a prime example of the journalistic malpractice of publishing only as much of the true facts as will make their story sound sufficiently shocking that joe public will not delve too deeply and accept the falsification (by omission) as 100% true when in fact, being generous, they are barely only 10% true or less.


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## Portugal-or-Spain? (Oct 25, 2015)

baldilocks said:


> So do most things but to a lesser or greater extent. The articles that have recently highlighted those "facts" are a prime example of the journalistic malpractice of publishing only as much of the true facts as will make their story sound sufficiently shocking that joe public will not delve too deeply and accept the falsification (by omission) as 100% true when in fact, being generous, they are barely only 10% true or less.


I am lucky, as the seafood where I frequent the most is unsurpassed (fresh cod, yummy, only 7 Euros per kilo, plus Galician mussels and clams; OMG). I do not eat much red meat but I have always had the suspicion it is not good for you. I guess a little is OK, but it now has ensured I buy even less beef and pork. Hopefully duck / goose / rabbit was not included in the dark / red meat category, cause I love these. BTW Spanish black piggy pork is the best in the world IMHO, but I only eat it when drunk, which is not often enough.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Portugal-or-Spain? said:


> I am lucky, as the seafood where I frequent the most is unsurpassed (fresh cod, yummy, only 7 Euros per kilo, plus Galician mussels and clams; OMG). I do not eat much red meat but I have always had the suspicion it is not good for you. I guess a little is OK, but it now has ensured I buy even less beef and pork. Hopefully duck / goose / rabbit was not included in the dark / red meat category, cause I love these. BTW Spanish black piggy pork is the best in the world IMHO, but I only eat it when drunk, which is not often enough.


You eat fish|? OMG with all the pollutants in the sea especially lead, PCBs and sewage... You'll be telling us that you eat McD's next - talk about living dangerously, but if that is your thrill, who are we to say you shouldn't?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Overandout said:


> I must agree wholeheartedly with virtually everything you say.
> 
> Recently, there was a post on here called "The dream has shattered" or similar, and I was longing to reply saying something along the lines of "why did you think it would be a dream to move to Spain?" but I thought that I would be sounding very negative if I did, so I resisted.
> 
> ...


Yes, there are indeed ore things in life than money ...but most people who aren't lucky enough to have money might not think so..
Of course it all depends on how you lived in the UK. But then, if you are unemployed or without skills in a low paid job you are likely to end u in the same situation in Spain. People tend to take their problems with them in their suitcases..


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> People tend to take their problems with them in their suitcases..


or in the back-seat (m-i-l !)


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I had enough money to live comfortably in the UK, and eventually I achieved the same in Spain, but I don't really consider that luck had a great deal to do with it. OK, so maybe I didn't get hit by much bad luck, but I sacrificed a lot, studied very hard for a long time, battled against the administration, worked extra hours, made some expensive mistakes and got very, very down about the whole experience several times.

But in general I know what you mean. If things aren't going your way in the UK, jumping on a plane to Spain is not going to solve anything, especially in the professional / career sense.

I said before in a similar post that people who need to work to support themselves should only come to Spain if they are prepared to take an economical hit in income / spending power.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Overandout said:


> ...
> 
> However, lots of us do it, and are happy. Believe it or not, I am really looking forward to coming back to Spain, even though I will struggle to find work and will have to take a pay cut. There are more things in life than money.
> 
> I would add that my job is quite specialised, and now, the wage difference between UK and Spain has evend out quite a bit. As a result of the crisis, there seem to be less management level jobs available in Spain, but when they come up, they do pay more or less the same as before the crisis. In the UK however, there seem to be just as many jobs as before the crisis, but being significantly lower paid. I guess its just the way that each country's industries have dealt with the squeeze.


Yes, a friend of mine who works in IT with decent skills and experience has recently changed jobs and found his salary has increased (which surprised him a bit). I have a feeling that the crisis has caused a shortage of people with certain skills, because many people have been unable to gain the required experience. The few who managed to not only keep their jobs, but also improve their skills now find themselves in demand.


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## Portugal-or-Spain? (Oct 25, 2015)

baldilocks said:


> You eat fish|? OMG with all the pollutants in the sea especially lead, PCBs and sewage... You'll be telling us that you eat McD's next - talk about living dangerously, but if that is your thrill, who are we to say you shouldn't?


OMG, I forgot, you live next to the Mediterranean, the cesspit for Southern Europe, Turkey, Israel, Palestine, Egypt and the whole of North Africa. No, you see, it is different for the Atlantic, the water quality is still exceptionally high, continually surpassing even the highest EU standard. Now I understand why you prefer to eat carcinogenics from intensively farmed quadrupeds. :boxing:


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

If I die today, let me be remembered (if I am to be remembered) on this forum for one thing:- If you are looking for work Spain at this moment in time is not for you. You're the best carpenter, mason, plumber, painter, fabricator, tool-maker, hairdresser, beautician, salesperson, disc-jockey, child-minder, pilot, fitness-instructor, call-centre-jockey, and almost anything else you can add; Spain will break your melt slowly but surely and costly.

. . . and the original poster wanted to know how we earn our bread . . . [loud chuckle leading to several guffaws] . . . let me answer this way . . . you find a good spot for fishing and always catch fish there . . . NEWSFLASH! you don't give your secrets to anybody else.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

One large company in that building is this one:

https://www.coritel.es/html/oficinas.html

I used to work for their parent company and have visited that office several times. It's a tough work environment, I was told, although the place had a good atmosphere about it.

Back then (about 9 years ago), it was mainly the Spanish language in use, and much of the documentation they created and used was in Spanish.

I am not sure about their Malaga office, but I know they've had vacancies in their Madrid and Barcelona offices throughout the last year. They are always looking for people but with specific skills at times, e.g. SAP.



Lynn R said:


> There is a large Technology Park on the outskirts of Málaga where over 15,000 people are now employed (Parque Tecnologico de Andalucia). There is an employment section on their website, although there seem to be very few vacancies on there at present. Click on Ofertas de Empleo (and there is also the facility to add your CV, although if you are not yet in Spain I am not sure how good the response is likely to be).
> 
> 
> http://www.pta.es/es/empleo.cfm#.Vi-l27cvfnA


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

Leper said:


> If I die today, let me be remembered (if I am to be remembered) on this forum for one thing:- If you are looking for work Spain at this moment in time is not for you. You're the best carpenter, mason, plumber, painter, fabricator, tool-maker, hairdresser, beautician, salesperson, disc-jockey, child-minder, pilot, fitness-instructor, call-centre-jockey, and almost anything else you can add; Spain will break your melt slowly but surely and costly.


and what's your insight into the software industry that the OP was asking about?



Leper said:


> . . . and the original poster wanted to know how we earn our bread . . . [loud chuckle leading to several guffaws] . . . let me answer this way . . . you find a good spot for fishing and always catch fish there . . . NEWSFLASH! you don't give your secrets to anybody else.


Firstly this paragraph makes your first paragraph meaningless, since you've admitted that if things were good in Spain you wouldn't say so. Secondly in certain industries, software being one of them, it is beneficial to create a community and share knowledge, including what skills are in demand. It is not to your advantage in the long run if you are the only SCALA developer in a country full of COBOL developers. You may find you get a big salary, but you won't progress as a SCALA developer.


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## Elyles (Aug 30, 2012)

I am a retired Psychologist but have no desire to practice now. It is better for my mental health that way!


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## Rabbitcat (Aug 31, 2014)

Errrm, never realised you were a psychologist .

Can you spot if someone's a nutter- just by their postings?

I have a friend, Ted, no Jed, no Ted- anyway he's wondering if he's a bit nuts. He sometimes posts on here using my sign-in. Do you reckon he's a bit loopy?


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