# looking into moving to Spain



## Hailzkerr (Feb 10, 2014)

HI, I'M new here looking for some advice if anyone could help please. 

My family is made up of myself (26), hubby (31)& 3 kids ages 6,2,9months.

We are really keen on moving to spain as we feel we don't have anything keeping us in the UK and would like to live in a nicer climate, more outside living and I feel it would be great for our kids to grow up with a 2nd language. I have always loved the culture and pace of life in spain.
The move will be in next 2 years as need to get a bit of money behind us 1st.

Now the question is where do we start? 
We want to be somewhere with good job opportunities (I know unemployment rate is high at min, esp in hubby 's line of work-bricklayer), good schools, I would like to be with other expats to start of with, don't want somewhere to busy or to quite. Needs to have things to do. Any suggestions? 
I was originally looking at costa del sol,but am open to all suggestions. 

Secondly is the building trade picking up? 

Where is the best place to find up to date&accurate info on:
1. Benefit entitlement? Such as child benefit? Tax credits?DLA?CA?
2. Healthcare

I would love to hear from any other family's who have made the move and how did you do it without breaking the bank? What would be a reasonable amount to move with? Did the kids start school etc straight away? Did u secure jobs before going? We would go into rented to start with.

It's such an exciting but daunting prospect. 

Any advice or guidance would be appreciated, sorry about the long post.


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Hi Hailzkerr,
Welcome to the forum. At this point in time and for many years to come Spain needs bricklayers like the UK needs the return of the Bubonic Plague. As the Americans say Do Not repeat Do Not even think of moving to Spain if you need to work for a living. You may be a skilled bricklayer, carpenter, hairdresser, beautician (and throw in a few more) you will never acquire work in Spain unless you are very very lucky. You have a better chance of a big win in the Lottery. You have a family as well . . .

Now that I have sent you into depression and you are probably calling for me to be hanged, drawn and quartered I must inform you that the amount of people in your position that I've seen retreating disoriented, confused and broke to the UK is appalling. 

Spain is a terrific country to move to if you are retired where you can enjoy a cheaper and better quality of life. If you are financially sound the move can be positive also. But, if you are looking for a job in Spain it is like walking unprotected and wearing skis across a mine field in Cambodia.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Hailzkerr said:


> ...
> 
> Now the question is where do we start?
> We want to be somewhere with good job opportunities (I know unemployment rate is high at min, esp in hubby 's line of work-bricklayer), good schools, I would like to be with other expats to start of with, don't want somewhere to busy or to quite. Needs to have things to do. Any suggestions? Unemployment is at around 30% - more in some areas. That's 1 in 3!! The construction industry is still dead!
> ...


Welcome, I have put some answers above. I'm not being negative, simply stating the situation!


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## Hailzkerr (Feb 10, 2014)

Hi, Thanks for your honest opinions. I feared it was what I was going to hear. 

Do you think the economy will pick up in next few years? I fear the construction industry will never fully recover for years and years, but what about unemployment rates? What has been put in place?


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

I don't think the cost of living here is cheaper at all. Not as a mum of 2 older kids who attend a British School, we all require private health insurance, the rent we pay is silly the electricity costs ridiculous, eating out is not great (in our area anyway) the food is of poor quality & expensive, supermarket shopping is no cheaper in fact I think it may be more expensive than the UK!. Hubby has just come back from business in London and he was dining out cheaper there! Surely there must be other country's in the EU with rosier prospects? The sun shines other places too!


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Not sure I can agree with that experience at all but then again different regions are always going to differ in prices. Plus I think paying for a British school for two kids is likely to eat up the savings made and make even more cost again.

For us grocery shopping is a third to a half cheaper each time and if we choose to get our veg from the local farm then we feel as if we are ripping them off. We have never had an issue eating out although admittedly don't do it often. Food is food though and there hasn't been a noticeable change in the way we eat, same old same old there0
Electricity is at worst comparable to what we used to pay, in summer we use less and it's cheaper considering the size of the house, pool we never had before etc...

Rents around here are excellent, we pay a bit more than we probably should but it's still cheaper than before for a house that would be way out of our price range elsewhere. In fact our plan is to find another house of similar standing in another area and we can wipe off nearly a grand a month off of the price, or pay the same as we are now for a lovely coastal villa.
Petrol is marginally cheaper too in the off season.

OK we came from Belgium but if you look at the various index's the cost of living there is comparable to London prices so either London isn't as bad an option as people say it is or and I imagine it probably is the case but in some areas of Spain it is just as pricey, not here though.

As for the rest well I agree with what others have said in regards to work etc...
I'm guessing and it's not an educated guess your best bet would be to come and try and find seasonal jobs in the summer period around the resort towns or to hit up the bigger expat towns and you may be lucky(may) to find a job as a somebodies hand who is already established but there are no guarantees in that. Maybe come for 3 months at first without moving everything and use that time to get a feel for the areas and work, you may get lucky but if you don't then you haven't given it all up just yet.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Hailzkerr said:


> Hi, Thanks for your honest opinions. I feared it was what I was going to hear.
> 
> Do you think the economy will pick up in next few years? I fear the construction industry will never fully recover for years and years, but what about unemployment rates? What has been put in place?


Unemployment is still rising and will continue to do so as the government has made it easier and cheaper to sack people.

If the economy" picks up" it will be because wages fall so low that it becomes profitable for multinationals to relocate here.

The position on the ground for ordinary working people is likely to remain dire for many years.

There is no child allowance, housing benefit or any other form of supplement to top up the miserly unemployment benefit, which you only get if you've been working here, and only for a limited time. Thousands of families who can't pay the rent or mortgage are moving in with their grandparents, living off their pensions and going to food banks.

Sorry to be the bearer of such cheery news but if you don't have an independent income, forget about moving to Spain.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

angil said:


> I don't think the cost of living here is cheaper at all. Not as a mum of 2 older kids who attend a British School, we all require private health insurance, the rent we pay is silly the electricity costs ridiculous, eating out is not great (in our area anyway) the food is of poor quality & expensive, supermarket shopping is no cheaper in fact I think it may be more expensive than the UK!. Hubby has just come back from business in London and he was dining out cheaper there! Surely there must be other country's in the EU with rosier prospects? The sun shines other places too!


And where *is* it that you live?


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Dear Pesky Wesky I am sure your interest stems from another post I commented on with regards to my current whereabouts being "dodgy, dirty & a little bit desperate". 
Do you want to know where I live so you can avoid such a place or is it so you can tell me I am wrong?! It surely can't be so difficult to believe such places exist here in Spain?! 
I can see no relevance in you asking me that question on this post.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

angil said:


> I don't think the cost of living here is cheaper at all. Not as a mum of 2 older kids who attend a British School, we all require private health insurance, the rent we pay is silly the electricity costs ridiculous, eating out is not great (in our area anyway) the food is of poor quality & expensive, supermarket shopping is no cheaper in fact I think it may be more expensive than the UK!. Hubby has just come back from business in London and he was dining out cheaper there! Surely there must be other country's in the EU with rosier prospects? The sun shines other places too!


It would help if you told us where you live. 

For us, it is about half the price to live here by comparison with UK. Here we pay as much *per year* for council tax on a five bedroomed house as we did per month in UK for a 1 bedroomed flat and here it includes water and sewage which cost us another £100 per month. Electricity here is quite costly but probably less than in UK (with all their rip-off profiteering). Fruit and veg is definitely cheaper and for much better quality and tastier produce. Meat is about the same and better value since a chicken for example, doesn't have 10% added water and sodium polyphosphate to boost its weight and is tastier. etc. etc.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

angil said:


> Dear Pesky Wesky I am sure your interest stems from another post I commented on with regards to my current whereabouts being "dodgy, dirty & a little bit desperate".
> Do you want to know where I live so you can avoid such a place or is it so you can tell me I am wrong?! It surely can't be so difficult to believe such places exist here in Spain?!
> I can see no relevance in you asking me that question on this post.


The relevance is to identify where it costs so much for a person to live since most of us find it cheaper (a little cheaper ranging up to a lot) depending on where we are living.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

angil said:


> Dear Pesky Wesky I am sure your interest stems from another post I commented on with regards to my current whereabouts being "dodgy, dirty & a little bit desperate".
> Do you want to know where I live so you can avoid such a place or is it so you can tell me I am wrong?! It surely can't be so difficult to believe such places exist here in Spain?!
> I can see no relevance in you asking me that question on this post.


Dear angil,
Of course I'm interested to know where you are because of your previous comments, but why would you think that I don't believe you? This was my reply to you on the other thread



> You can bet that your bit of Spain is not representative of the whole country as Spain is a big place and has a huge diversity - mountains, beach, built up, in the sticks, cosmopolitan and oldy fash all in one country. I know quite a few places that I'd hate to live in and others that look quite attractive.
> Where are you now and what are you looking for? Maybe we can help


If your location in Spain is too personal for you to reveal, I apologise. I have never said where I am exactly either, so I understand that, but as you yourself said maybe your area is not very representative of Spain. After all what does represent a country that goes from near desert in parts of Almeria to mountains of 2000m, to the lush grazing areas of the north? If you _wanted_, perhaps people here can give you info about other places in this country, but of course that's up to you 

Also, if you contribute to thread like this it has little relevance if the OP doesn't know where you are based...


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

I certainly know from hubby when he visited Bilbao many years ago that there are some lovely places in Spain. Actually even a relatively short drive reveals a 'softer' (cleaner) side to even this region! As I have said before in other posts I don't drive myself and my kids take public transport to school. So at the minute we are a little tied because of the school situation. 
I am used to hiking off on my own for miles, thinking "bloomin hec where am I" then hailing a taxi home for a couple of quid! That option isn't here in Spain. No hailing and they are expensive! 
Like I also said previously I have started to see glimmers of our 'normality'. & am definitely making more of an 'effort'! But we are simply in the wrong location. It is not for us. Maybe Spain is? Despite the cost!! if we were in a more suitable area? Time will tell.
But thank you so much for your offer of assistance Pesky Wesky and your information. Much appreciated. 
Balidlocks I have no doubt you can live cheaply here if you don't have children & have the time and inclination to bargain shop for groceries etc. If it wasn't for those blinkin' kids me and hubby would live a frugal happy little existence!! We are both cheap dates!
But our rent is €1000, our cheapest electricity bill was nearly €300 & just paid the monthly school bill of €1365. & that is just the tip of the Iceberg. 
We are not finding Spain cheap!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

angil said:


> I certainly know from hubby when he visited Bilbao many years ago that there are some lovely places in Spain. Actually even a relatively short drive reveals a 'softer' (cleaner) side to even this region! As I have said before in other posts I don't drive myself and my kids take public transport to school. So at the minute we are a little tied because of the school situation.
> I am used to hiking off on my own for miles, thinking "bloomin hec where am I" then hailing a taxi home for a couple of quid! That option isn't here in Spain. No hailing and they are expensive!
> Like I also said previously I have started to see glimmers of our 'normality'. & am definitely making more of an 'effort'! But we are simply in the wrong location. It is not for us. Maybe Spain is? Despite the cost!! if we were in a more suitable area? Time will tell.
> But thank you so much for your offer of assistance Pesky Wesky and your information. Much appreciated.
> ...


I agree. We are retired, no money worries, rent a large house as we have two big dogs and live well but not extravagantly. We find the cost of living as we experience it roughly the same as in the UK.
I can well imagine that living here with children is costly. It is anywhere.
I also agree that if so inclined you can live cheaply here, but we never lived 'cheaply' in the UK and have no intention of doing so now we're retired. 
If you are lucky enough to be able to do so, you choose the lifestyle that suits your tastes and your pocket.
Incidentally, our lowest electricity Bill has been around €350. I think it would be less were we in the UK but we're not, we're in Spain, so we can't and don't complain!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

angil said:


> I certainly know from hubby when he visited Bilbao many years ago that there are some lovely places in Spain. Actually even a relatively short drive reveals a 'softer' (cleaner) side to even this region! As I have said before in other posts I don't drive myself and my kids take public transport to school. So at the minute we are a little tied because of the school situation.
> I am used to hiking off on my own for miles, thinking "bloomin hec where am I" then hailing a taxi home for a couple of quid! That option isn't here in Spain. No hailing and they are expensive!
> Like I also said previously I have started to see glimmers of our 'normality'. & am definitely making more of an 'effort'! But we are simply in the wrong location. It is not for us. Maybe Spain is? Despite the cost!! if we were in a more suitable area? Time will tell.
> But thank you so much for your offer of assistance Pesky Wesky and your information. Much appreciated.
> ...



Forgot to say..we were in the wrong locatión when we first arrived here. We tried living in a flat, which we'd never done before, in a gated Community where most of the flats were unsold and the rest occupied by retired Brits or were holiday lets. We both hated it.
Then we moved to where we are now and we love it.
Location location location, as they say.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

€350? for 2 months? Pool, big house, tumble dryer etc etc?? We are in 3 bed duplex, no pool, no tumble dryer with a manic mother who is shouting "switch it off!" constantly! We still think we must be paying for the street lights! But your bill may just be the proof we need for ourselves to finally shrug our shoulders and 'give in' to at least one 'big' bill here.
(& my kids go to one of the 'cheaper' Int/British Schools in the area - chosen for that reason not its facilities!).


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> It would help if you told us where you live.
> 
> For us, it is about half the price to live here by comparison with UK. Here we pay as much *per year* for council tax on a five bedroomed house as we did per month in UK for a 1 bedroomed flat and here it includes water and sewage which cost us another £100 per month. Electricity here is quite costly but probably less than in UK (with all their rip-off profiteering). Fruit and veg is definitely cheaper and for much better quality and tastier produce. Meat is about the same and better value since a chicken for example, doesn't have 10% added water and sodium polyphosphate to boost its weight and is tastier. etc. etc.


I found a better and cheaper selection of fruit and veg in Tesco's UK, a lot of it comes from Spain, they probably export the better stuff! The special offers mean the shopping basket is the same or cheaper than Spain.
By the way we don't do the weekly shop in English shops, either
As for meat, you need a bank loan to buy a decent piece of lamb here, Though I'll agree that chicken and pork are a bit cheaper. It's also a myth that it's tastier here. 
My daughter in UK paid £250 approx a quarter for combined gas/electricity for a family of four.How can you say it's probably less here than UK?
Don't forget the expenses everyone forgets to include, flights to UK to see family, staying with them, treating grandchildren etc
Paying accountant fees in Spain
Some things are cheaper in Spain eg car tax, but half the price to live here? No way!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

I do think it's incorrect to assume that everyone in the UK eats poor quality food. Some things are obviously better here, fish and sea food for example, but many things here even from smaller shops are no better than in the UK.
Not all British food is stuffed with additives and fresh produce is fresh produce whether in Spain, the UK or Timbuktu.
I love living in Spain, don't intend to leave but I don't fool myself into thinking everything in the Spanish garden is lovely because it isn't. There's bad stuff everywhere. Many low or no income Spaniards would be wryly amused to hear British immigrants enthuse about their delightful cheeses, meat etc...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

angil said:


> €350? for 2 months? Pool, big house, tumble dryer etc etc?? We are in 3 bed duplex, no pool, no tumble dryer with a manic mother who is shouting "switch it off!" constantly! We still think we must be paying for the street lights! But your bill may just be the proof we need for ourselves to finally shrug our shoulders and 'give in' to at least one 'big' bill here.
> (& my kids go to one of the 'cheaper' Int/British Schools in the area - chosen for that reason not its facilities!).


Last bill was €411. Big house, pool, yes. Tumble dryer, no. But everything eléctrica although we use butane for heating.
Never use aircon either, no need.
Everyone round here has similar bills.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Thank you mrypg9 for the electricity info. 

I used to shrug my shoulders a lot "oh well, that's just how it is in Korea". Why am I finding that so hard to do here??!

Location, location, location??!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

extranjero said:


> I found a better and cheaper selection of fruit and veg in Tesco's UK, a lot of it comes from Spain, they probably export the better stuff! The special offers mean the shopping basket is the same or cheaper than Spain.
> By the way we don't do the weekly shop in English shops, either
> As for meat, you need a bank loan to buy a decent piece of lamb here, Though I'll agree that chicken and pork are a bit cheaper. It's also a myth that it's tastier here.


I think when you add up the pros and cons the cost of living is about the same - until it comes to rent. Housing costs here are less than half what you'd pay in the UK. Where in England could you rent a 3-bed house for €500 a month?

When you say you found a "better and cheaper" selection of fruit and veg in Tescos, what were you comparing it with? 

Spain doesn't export the best stuff by any means. UK supermarkets demand uniform shapes and sizes and they certainly don't put flavour at the top of the list of priorities. Plus the fact that the produce has been chemically treated to stop it going off during transportation! 

Here, if you buy what's in season you_ can_ eat very cheaply. This morning I bought 3 kgs of oranges for 2€ and a football-sized cauliflower for 85 cents.

You can get a leg of English lamb for €9 in Mercadona (freezer dept), and a large free-range chicken (fresh) for €6 or €7. Much of the cheap supermarket meat in the UK (and probably here, though I don't buy it) is pumped full of water, so if you spend a bit more at a decent butcher you tend to get more meat for your money.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

angil said:


> Thank you mrypg9 for the electricity info.
> 
> I used to shrug my shoulders a lot "oh well, that's just how it is in Korea". Why am I finding that so hard to do here??!
> 
> Location, location, location??!


It took us a couple of years to accept how things are. One day something happened, cant remember what, and I found I wasnt screeching and getting worked up...the sky was blue, the sun was shining...and I found myself thinking..f*** it, life's too short to worry about comparative trivia.
Which many if not most things are...trivia.
Anyway I'm now happy as a pig in muck as I've found how to switch off predictive text..which was very easy, really...ñ


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> I think when you add up the pros and cons the cost of living is about the same - until it comes to rent. Housing costs here are less than half what you'd pay in the UK. Where in England could you rent a 3-bed house for €500 a month?
> When you say you found a "better and cheaper" selection of fruit and veg in Tescos, what were you comparing it with?
> 
> Spain doesn't export the best stuff by any means. UK supermarkets demand uniform shapes and sizes and they certainly don't put flavour at the top of the list of priorities. Plus the fact that the produce has been chemically treated to stop it going off during transportation!
> ...


You could rent a 3 bed house very cheaply in some parts of the UK but as you rightly say..it's comparative...but so it is in Spain. 

I have to say that the average British consumer is pretty well educated on what constitutes good quality food these days. The days of supermarket rubbish are long gone especially in big cities or more affluent areas. But just as in Spain, poorer people can rarely afford quality meat or fish. 
There is or was a prevailing myth that British food and British cooking were dire. That may have been true of the post-war years for many people although even then as a child growing up in Dorset I enjoyed excellent fruit, vegetables from our garden, meat from our butcher and fish from the fishmonger, both locally sourced.
I cant say I ate any the worse when I left for the Big City. 
There seems equally a myth that Spanish produce is of superior quality...because it's Spanish?? Well, some is very good, some is OK and some is indifferent.
An undiscerning shopper will be fobbed off with poor goods in Barcelona or Basingstoke, Malaga or Milan.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> You could rent a 3 bed house very cheaply in some parts of the UK but as you rightly say..it's comparative...but so it is in Spain.
> 
> I have to say that the average British consumer is pretty well educated on what constitutes good quality food these days.* The days of supermarket rubbish are long gone *especially in big cities or more affluent areas. But just as in Spain, poorer people can rarely afford quality meat or fish.
> There is or was a prevailing myth that British food and British cooking were dire. That may have been true of the post-war years for many people although even then as a child growing up in Dorset I enjoyed excellent fruit, vegetables from our garden, meat from our butcher and fish from the fishmonger, both locally sourced.
> ...


I don't know how you can say that! Did you not see this report last week?



> *Fake-food scandal revealed as tests show third of products mislabelled*
> 
> Consumers are being sold food including mozzarella that is less than half real cheese, ham on pizzas that is either poultry or "meat emulsion", and frozen prawns that are 50% water, according to tests by a public laboratory.
> 
> ...


Of course, if you can afford it, there is plenty of good quality food in the UK. But the big difference between Spain and the UK is that it is still the norm here to eat a home-cooked family lunch every day, made from fresh ingredients. Go into any Spanish supermarket and you will have to search quite hard for microwaveable ready-meals. Hardly anyone cooks from fresh in the UK these days, they are too busy watching Masterchef eating defrosted lasagne off a tray.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> I don't know how you can say that! Did you not see this report last week?
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, if you can afford it, there is plenty of good quality food in the UK. But the big difference between Spain and the UK is that it is still the norm here to eat a home-cooked family lunch every day, made from fresh ingredients. Go into any Spanish supermarket and you will have to search quite hard for microwaveable ready-meals. Hardly anyone cooks from fresh in the UK these days, they are too busy watching Masterchef eating defrosted lasagne off a tray.


Sorry but to me that is a huge generalisation and just not true. The UK has become a nation of foodies, obsessed with cooking and cookery.
And most people I know still sit down every day to eat a cooked family meal together.
It depends on who you know..
I read somewhere that more and more Spaniards are eating processed and fast food..and every branch of MacDonalds Ive seen anywhere in Spain is packed..
We see the Spain we want to see, sometimes...


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> There is or was a prevailing myth that British food and British cooking were dire. That may have been true of the post-war years for many people although even then as a child growing up in Dorset I enjoyed excellent fruit, vegetables from our garden, meat from our butcher and fish from the fishmonger, both locally sourced.


The business of British food being poor is and always was a myth just as it is a myth that French cuisine is always excellent. If you were talking about school dinners, you were probably correct but, in our house, we always had excellent cooking.

What one finds these days in British supermarkets is that the foodstuffs may look good but the tastes and flavours are way behind way behind what we can get in Spain and at half the price of that in UK, but that is when you can compare similar products. Much of what might be available in a British supermarket is not available in much of Spain unless one is in a large place such as Madrid but those large places are not representative of Spain in general where many foodstuffs are subject to seasonal availability rather than being flown halfway round the world.

Lamb is not, normally, a locally produced item so it is going to be expensive. Spain sells a lot of locally produced chickens, rabbits, beef and pork, all of which are excellent quality and with good flavour without loads of additives. It *is* difficult to get a decent leg of pork joint because much of it goes for ham which, of course, keeps without refrigeration. If I want a pork joint I always buy "cinta de lomo" (loin) and I buy the whole thing, it is up to about a metre long and cut it into steaks and roasting joints according to what we need. I can usually get this at €3.99/kg. Pork steaks here tend to be wafer thin (for flash frying) but we prefer ours roughly twice that thickness and, cutting them myself, I can get them the size we want; I usually cut one or two joints in a spiral cut so that they can be stuffed with various dried (home dried of course) fruits and rolled before roasting. 

Fruits are more than plentiful when in season (often very cheap as well) and you have to do what the Spaniards do, preserve them - bottling, drying, freezing, etc according to what is practicable for the produce in question. This also applies to some of the veg of which there is also a glut when in season.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> The business of British food being poor is and always was a myth just as it is a myth that French cuisine is always excellent. If you were talking about school dinners, you were probably correct but, in our house, we always had excellent cooking.
> 
> What one finds these days in British supermarkets is that the foodstuffs may look good but the tastes and flavours are way behind way behind what we can get in Spain and at half the price of that in UK, but that is when you can compare similar products. Much of what might be available in a British supermarket is not available in much of Spain unless one is in a large place such as Madrid but those large places are not representative of Spain in general where many foodstuffs are subject to seasonal availability rather than being flown halfway round the world.
> 
> ...


That is fair and balanced comment although I cant agree that all British supermarket food is of inferior quality and taste to that in Spain. My dil who is a very discriminating shopper and an excellent cook occasionally shops in a massive Tesco supermarket near Reigate where locally grown produce is on sale, the bread is freshly baked in store and meat, eggs and cheeses are sourced from local producers. They also have a range of those rather twee pickles and jams from small 'cottage' producers and a vast selection of beers and ales from micro breweries.
Granted not all supermarkets have such a range and Reigate is a rather affluent area but there are supermarkets that are similar in every town. I have friends who live in rural Norfolk and Suffolk who have nearby small village shops selling local quality produce as well as farm shops for excellent quality meat, cheeses etc.
I must admit that the pupils on the estate where I taught rarely sat to a home- cooked meal around a table with the family. It was indeed the norm to eat whilst watch tv. To me, that was quite shocking.
This obsession with food in the UK at least seems a rather middle-class thing, or was, since programmes such as 'Come Dine With Me' are popularising the dinner party and foodie culture.
Yes, I eat well here. But I have eaten well all my life, apart from a dreadful three year interlude when I lived in Prague and poor quality food was a major reason for leaving.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Hmmm. I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer here.
I find British supermarkets have much more selection of ready cooked food and food that has been "prepared" in some way like chicken aux fines herbes, chicken in BBQ sauce etc whereas here I'm more likely to get just a cooked chicken. Both lots of chicken are likely to be full of chemicals and in both countries more organic choices are quite a lot more expensive. In the UK you can get Mr. Man yoghurts and Hello Kitty Cereals. Here you get Danone, Kellogs and maybe the supermarket's own brand. In the UK you get smoked back bacon. Here you don't. Now to many people that means that the food isn't so good here. To others it means life's more complicated 'cos you have to do a different kind of shop and to others it's not such a difference.
Making comparisons are also difficult because you should compare like with like, but as I've indicated above the same product isn't always available. No back bacon, but yes jamon serrano. No chicken crisps,but yes pipas.
Also different regions can have quite different foods, not like the UK where virtually all stores have the same, so I think it's often incorrect to say that the food in Spain is good or bad. In Lerma you get good lamb for example. In the Basque country you get good fish (even if it isn't caught near there)...
And we all have different ideas of what's good and what isn't and different experiences to draw from. In my family for example my parents equate good with the size of the meal, the bigger the better, even if it's way too much and they don't finish it. Also most people I know in the UK don't invest a lot of time in cooking and will buy fresh meat for example and add a canned sauce whereas my Spanish family wouldn't dream of doing that.
However, it's not true either that all Spaniards sit down to a family, home cooked 3 course meal every lunch time. The difference maybe is that if they have time, they will!


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## zx10r-Al (Apr 8, 2013)

As others have said, it depends where you are as to how it compares to the UK. When ever we have been unfortunate enough to eat near any of the 'built for foreigners' developments/areas, where they think people have bottomless pockets, it can seem expensive. But head into the towns where you don't hear an english voice at every bar, and you can eat for next to nothing. We usually pay around €5 for a tapas lunch with coffee - thats €5 for both of us; €1 each for coffee, €1.50 for the tapas with a basket of bread. Oh, and free wifi. Where in the UK can you sit down to lunch for £2 each? 

Our last trip there, we had 4 coffee's with friends of ours, then my partner and I had a menu del dia each, and another coffee each, and the total bill was €23. We've seen fresh whole chickens for €3.75. 

I think if you live and eat like the Spanish, it is a cheap country compared to the UK.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

zx10r-Al said:


> As others have said, it depends where you are as to how it compares to the UK. When ever we have been unfortunate enough to eat near any of the 'built for foreigners' developments/areas, where they think people have bottomless pockets, it can seem expensive. But head into the towns where you don't hear an english voice at every bar, and you can eat for next to nothing. We usually pay around €5 for a tapas lunch with coffee - thats €5 for both of us; €1 each for coffee, €1.50 for the tapas with a basket of bread. Oh, and free wifi. Where in the UK can you sit down to lunch for £2 each?
> 
> Our last trip there, we had 4 coffee's with friends of ours, then my partner and I had a menu del dia each, and another coffee each, and the total bill was €23. We've seen fresh whole chickens for €3.75.
> 
> I think if you live and eat like the Spanish, it is a cheap country compared to the UK.


Just as in any country, there are rich and poor in Spain too. You can't say :'live like the Spanish'. Not every Spanisrd lives on the same level.
In my village there are Spaniards living in luxurious villas, some living in town houses and some in modest pisos.
I don't think we can talk about 'the Spanish' as if they were a homogenous mass.
Or any nationality , really. People are diverse, thankfully.


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## zx10r-Al (Apr 8, 2013)

mrypg9 said:


> Just as in any country, there are rich and poor in Spain too. You can't say :'live like the Spanish'. Not every Spanisrd lives on the same level.
> In my village there are Spaniards living in luxurious villas, some living in town houses and some in modest pisos.
> I don't think we can talk about 'the Spanish' as if they were a homogenous mass.
> Or any nationality , really. People are diverse, thankfully.


I take your point, I was speaking from experience, having not knowingly mingled with any wealthy Spanish people. The wealthy have always been ex-pats from one country or another.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

Wow, you guys are giving a real flavour for living in Spain here. I love how you're all being so honest too, because that makes for real discussion. 

I looked up a comparison of living costs on a particular website, which includes Spain. There's a huge discrepancy from city to city, like so many of you are saying here. This is something I'm using as a guide to help me decide where to live in Spain. I had some people here on the forum verify when I first joined that these are pretty accurate. Here's the link: Cost of Living in Spain. Prices in Spain.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

zx10r-Al said:


> I take your point, I was speaking from experience, having not knowingly mingled with any wealthy Spanish people. The wealthy have always been ex-pats from one country or another.


I too am speaking from experience, having lived in a predominantly Spanish village for five years.
There are a few wealthy immigrants here, no wealthy Brits though, but in this typically Spanish comunity people of all income levels can be found.
On one side my neighbours are a retired architect and his wife, on the other a retired truck driver and his primary school teacher wife, also retired. I have friends who are what I suppose you would describe as middle class, others as 'working class'. All Spanish, all different in income levels and tastes.
Just like we immigrants.
There are communities which are predominantly British immigrant not far from here but these people are in no way 'wealthy', they are the same as their Spanish neighbours.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

AllHeart said:


> Wow, you guys are giving a real flavour for living in Spain here. I love how you're all being so honest too, because that makes for real discussion.
> 
> I looked up a comparison of living costs on a particular website, which includes Spain. There's a huge discrepancy from city to city, like so many of you are saying here. This is something I'm using as a guide to help me decide where to live in Spain. I had some people here on the forum verify when I first joined that these are pretty accurate. Here's the link: Cost of Living in Spain. Prices in Spain.


Quite so! Like all countries, you will find differences, sometimes quite huge, from region to region. Asturias and Andalucia are very different in so many ways.
It ' s a bit like the silly 'real Spain' debate: everywhere in Spain is the 'real Spain', from tourist areas like Benidorm to great industrial cities like Barcelona to quiet seaside towns like Estepona to Andalucian pueblos.
There is in some people's minds perhaps a stereotyped image of Spain as the land of manana, donkeys, castanets and whitewalled houses...but that is doing a great injustice to a very richly varied nation of fiercely proud and independent regions, each distinct in its own way.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> I looked up a comparison of living costs on a particular website, which includes Spain. There's a huge discrepancy from city to city, like so many of you are saying here. This is something I'm using as a guide to help me decide where to live in Spain. I had some people here on the forum verify when I first joined that these are pretty accurate. Here's the link: Cost of Living in Spain. Prices in Spain.


There isn't much point worrying about averages. Being told fish is cheap in one town isn't much use if you're allergic to fish. The averages are nice when it comes to weather and heating/cooling but even here it breaks down. Some people think 15C is nice others consider it a step colder then an arctic winter. The same thing with heat during the summer. Is 35C warm? Hot? Horrid? Pleasant ? How you react will cause your heating/cooling bill to vary.

Best thing is to put together a budget with a fair bit of flexibility. Try to nail down all the costs you can. These days it's a lot easier with the web. You'll find everybody from grocery shops to utility providers providing info. If it matters put in a currency buffer. If your income isn't in € sooner or later this will matter.

One final note. Most of the things mentioned in this thread are traded internationally. The truck bringing fruit/veg etc to Spain can easily cross the border to France or even keep going to Germany. That means prices tend to converge. 

If you're buying something with a large bit of labour then the local wages matter. Eating out isn't really about the material cost.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Hmmm. I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer here.
> _Totally agree_
> 
> I find British supermarkets have much more selection of ready cooked food and food that has been "prepared" in some way like chicken aux fines herbes, chicken in BBQ sauce etc whereas here I'm more likely to get just a cooked chicken. Both lots of chicken are likely to be full of chemicals and in both countries more organic choices are quite a lot more expensive. In the UK you can get Mr. Man yoghurts and Hello Kitty Cereals. Here you get Danone, Kellogs and maybe the supermarket's own brand. In the UK you get smoked back bacon. Here you don't. Now to many people that means that the food isn't so good here. To others it means life's more complicated 'cos you have to do a different kind of shop and to others it's not such a difference.
> Making comparisons are also difficult because you should compare like with like, but as I've indicated above the same product isn't always available. No back bacon, but yes jamon serrano. No chicken crisps,but yes pipas.


For the most part quite a lot of those gimmicky kids things and pre packaged food is readily available at our local Carrefour, then again that shop is huge and I doubt the local Mercadona has such a selection, in fact it doesn't but a lot of that comes down to geography. A small village is always less likely to have such excess. Still, we haven't had to change anything up and settle for something different (aside from proper pork crackle ), our shopping is quite the same as it always has been and with two fussy kids they are easily kept happy.
The one change however is the cost, if you are saving a minimum of 100 euro each shop that works out to substantial savings over the year, I could almost afford a new telescope with those savings.

Re, British food being bad? 
I don't think it was ever bad food but was definitely labeled dull from those who came from societies with more flavour and spice in their own cooking. Something which I think has long gone now as food seems to have integrated wherever you go. I imagine Aussie food was based on the principals of British cuisine and frankly we were always well fed with good food. It's just a matter of taste really. Meat and 3 veg may seem dull when you always eat curries for instance.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

zx10r-Al said:


> As others have said, it depends where you are as to how it compares to the UK. When ever we have been unfortunate enough to eat near any of the 'built for foreigners' developments/areas, where they think people have bottomless pockets, it can seem expensive. But head into the towns where you don't hear an english voice at every bar, and you can eat for next to nothing. We usually pay around €5 for a tapas lunch with coffee - thats €5 for both of us; €1 each for coffee, €1.50 for the tapas with a basket of bread. Oh, and free wifi. Where in the UK can you sit down to lunch for £2 each?
> 
> Our last trip there, we had 4 coffee's with friends of ours, then my partner and I had a menu del dia each, and another coffee each, and the total bill was €23. We've seen fresh whole chickens for €3.75.
> 
> I think if you live and eat like the Spanish, it is a cheap country compared to the UK.


I have been here for quite a time and I have never eaten that cheaply, tapas or otherwise!
I do remember in the first year I was here going around a town in the Valencia area with a friend looking for the cheapest menu de día. I seem to remember it was 600 pesetas. It was horrible - fozen flamenquines, factory made sponge cake with neon jam on the top.
Now I live near Madrid and the cheapest menu I've seen is 8€ I think, but if we do go for a menu, we usually go for 12€ ++ because we find that below that just isn't worth it.
Personally, I'd rather have a plato combinado (Madrid prices 8 - 10€).

OH,and I'm married to a Spaniard


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I have been here for quite a time and I have never eaten that cheaply, tapas or otherwise!
> I do remember in the first year I was here going around a town in the Valencia area with a friend looking for the cheapest menu de día. I seem to remember it was 600 pesetas. It was horrible - fozen flamenquines, factory made sponge cake with neon jam on the top.
> Now I live near Madrid and the cheapest menu I've seen is 8€ I think, but if we do go for a menu, we usually go for 12€ ++ because we find that below that just isn't worth it.
> Personally, I'd rather have a plato combinado (Madrid prices 8 - 10€).


Again, as we have noted before, it depends on where you are. The MOST expensive menu we regularly encounter is at a quite posh restaurant on the outskirts of Granada at €10 (low season) to €12 (high season) and the quality is excellent (even the house wine). Normally we pay €7 to €8 for really good quality menu (versus excellent). I should point out that I am a very fussy eater so the quality has to be good to please me.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> Again, as we have noted before, it depends on where you are. The MOST expensive menu we regularly encounter is at a quite posh restaurant on the outskirts of Granada at €10 (low season) to €12 (high season) and the quality is excellent (even the house wine). Normally we pay €7 to €8 for really good quality menu (versus excellent). I should point out that I am a very fussy eater so the quality has to be good to please me.


Well, I've seen before that Chopero doesn't agree with me and thinks that a good menu in Madrid can be had for cheaper, so OH and I must be even fussier than you!


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

zx10r-Al said:


> But head into the towns where you don't hear an english voice at every bar, and you can eat for next to nothing. We usually pay around €5 for a tapas lunch with coffee - thats €5 for both of us; €1 each for coffee, €1.50 for the tapas with a basket of bread. Oh, and free wifi. Where in the UK can you sit down to lunch for £2 each?
> 
> Our last trip there, we had 4 coffee's with friends of ours, then my partner and I had a menu del dia each, and another coffee each, and the total bill was €23. We've seen fresh whole chickens for €3.75.


I live outside of Seville and when we go out to eat we virtually never head into the city. So my experience is in eating at non-touristy, non-city establishments. And what I have found lines up with what Pesky says: there's no place near as cheap as that around here. It's generally 2-3€ for a tapa, 1.20-1.50€ for coffee, and 10€+ for a menu. Besides, a tapa does not a lunch make, at least not for me and I'm not a hearty eater!



zx10r-Al said:


> I think if you live and eat like the Spanish, it is a cheap country compared to the UK.


 I've never lived in the UK so I can't compare. But I agree that in general eating like the locals is the best way to go.


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## AllHeart (Nov 22, 2013)

NickZ said:


> There isn't much point worrying about averages. Being told fish is cheap in one town isn't much use if you're allergic to fish. The averages are nice when it comes to weather and heating/cooling but even here it breaks down. Some people think 15C is nice others consider it a step colder then an arctic winter. The same thing with heat during the summer. Is 35C warm? Hot? Horrid? Pleasant ? How you react will cause your heating/cooling bill to vary.
> 
> Best thing is to put together a budget with a fair bit of flexibility. Try to nail down all the costs you can. These days it's a lot easier with the web. You'll find everybody from grocery shops to utility providers providing info. If it matters put in a currency buffer. If your income isn't in € sooner or later this will matter.
> 
> ...


Hi Nick. Yes, the averages are just an initial guide as to finances. When I posted this link before, people on the forum told me how there are other expenses that vary from different areas which are not even included in this list of expenses, such as home insurance and apartment fees. 

Yes, budgeting is key. I'm still trying to get used to the conversion. The simplest conversion I've come up with is that 100 euros is $150 Canadian. I hope one day to not have to convert, like you say to have it automatic. This brings to mind when I visited Spain many moons ago, by the end of 10 weeks of immersion I was actually dreaming in Spanish.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

AllHeart said:


> Yes, budgeting is key. I'm still trying to get used to the conversion. The simplest conversion I've come up with is that 100 euros is $150 Canadian.


The problem is it changes every second. During the last ten years it's been 1.20 to 1.70 or so. People that had counted on 1.2 ended up in trouble when it went up.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

NickZ said:


> The problem is it changes every second. During the last ten years it's been 1.20 to 1.70 or so. People that had counted on 1.2 ended up in trouble when it went up.


The secret is to stop comparing. Identify how much you are getting/have got in Euros then all the costs are straight forward in Euros. It doesn't matter how much it would have cost you "back home", it is what it is going to cost you now. We had a little job done yesterday (recording a persiana) and it cost us just 60 centimos. We know that it would have cost at least £5 to have had something similar done back in UK. I could have done it myself and if I had been in UK, I probably would have done but it was only 60 c. and it was going into the trader's pocket as income and thus, in a very small way, contributing to the local economy.


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## NickZ (Jun 26, 2009)

It's not a question of comparing.

For the people trying to budget they need to understand the exchange rate will change. Any budget needs to build in a safety margin for those of us with non € income.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> However, it's not true either that all Spaniards sit down to a family, home cooked 3 course meal every lunch time. The difference maybe is that if they have time, they will!


Well, sadly most of them do have time in my town because there is 35% unemployment. But even working families _do_ eat lunch together, and it is home-cooked - nothing elaborate or expensive, usually based on rice, garbanzos or lentils. Nearly everyone has access to a huerto/allotment for fresh veg, fruit and free range eggs. They might buy natillas or cakes as a special treat, and they often eat out on Sundays and festivals.

The most popular dish is _puchero_, a stew made with ham bones, the cheapest meat, and a chorizo or morcilla for flavour. The cooking liquid is spooned off and eaten as soup first, and the remainder, a rather unappetising-looking combination known as _pringá_, is served as the main course. It tastes better than it looks!

I've read many articles about the rise of fast food in Spain and I'm sure old traditions are dying out fast in the cities. But when I asked a class of 16-year-olds here whether they'd rather have a Big Mac or a home-cooked lunch, most of them chose the latter.


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## Expatliving (Oct 21, 2013)

I'll throw my two penneth in ... Nearly three months of rain, wages being chased down by new arrivals, increased violence towards younger people, food banks and a massive division between the wealthy and the people who actually pay their taxes in the UK!!

Spain? As long as you've got some money behind you, things couldn't be any worse? Yes, you've got red tape, well guess what? So have we. 

Council tax, gas/electricity bills? Nothing like ours year on year.

To all the people who regularly slate life in Spain, why on earth do you stay? Are you trapped by your poor judgment on buying property at the wrong time? I can't understand it, unless you can't sell?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Expatliving said:


> I'll throw my two penneth in ... Nearly three months of rain, wages being chased down by new arrivals, increased violence towards younger people, food banks and a massive division between the wealthy and the people who actually pay their taxes in the UK!!
> 
> Spain? As long as you've got some money behind you, things couldn't be any worse? Yes, you've got red tape, well guess what? So have we.
> 
> ...


There are many of us who are quite content with our life here. We aren't all whingers.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Expatliving said:


> I'll throw my two penneth in ... Nearly three months of rain, wages being chased down by new arrivals, increased violence towards younger people, food banks and a massive division between the wealthy and the people who actually pay their taxes in the UK!!
> 
> Spain? As long as you've got some money behind you, things couldn't be any worse? Yes, you've got red tape, well guess what? So have we.
> 
> ...


Who's slating life in Spain?

I looked slating up and it says _ "a severe reprimand or critical attack"
_I think informing people of unemployment, house prices, changes in residency requirements and as we are doing here, of the price of food and perceived differences between shopping in the UK and Spain is just that - information - not slating.

Extremes are not helpful and not truthful either so neither rose tinted specs nor slating, just info about life in our part of Spain. Some people are happier than others. Yes, there are a couple of people who want to sell up and can't. They have their views, and why shouldn't they?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> I've read many articles about the rise of fast food in Spain and I'm sure old traditions are dying out fast in the cities. But when I asked a class of 16-year-olds here whether they'd rather have a Big Mac or a home-cooked lunch, most of them chose the latter.


Actually, I don't think the difference is whether they're in the city or not so much as if they have left home or not. You tell a twenty year old who's working and 8 - 12 hour day to make lentils, bacalao al pil pil, or puchero and most of them would tell you where to place your frying pan.
Most young people are very interested in home stuff if the stuff comes on a plate at mum's house.
And don't worry if you haven't got a Mac Donald's in your area. There's always a pizza to be had from the supermarket.
Even Pot Noodles are making an entrance!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Actually, I don't think the difference is whether they're in the city or not so much as if they have left home or not. You tell a twenty year old who's working and 8 - 12 hour day to make lentils, bacalao al pil pil, or puchero and most of them would tell you where to place your frying pan.
> Most young people are very interested in home stuff if the stuff comes on a plate at mum's house.
> And don't worry if you haven't got a Mac Donald's in your area. There's always a pizza to be had from the supermarket.
> Even Pot Noodles are making an entrance!


Pot Noodles are the ultimate depths of synthetic food experience...
I cook because I'm used to eating home-cooked food. I also eat at a well-laid table. But I don't think that' s a better or worse habit than someone who comes home from a stressful day sitting in front of the tv with a ready-made dinner on a tray. It' s just what I did as a child and carried on doing. My son and his family do it too. Must be in the genes.
When we lived in Prague I would have killed for one of those M&S dinners, so awful was food quality there. I used to salivate when I sáw the ads on tv. It gave a whole new meaning to what constitutes pornography...
I do the cooking except for when we have lunch or dinner guests when, mercifully for the guests, Sandra takes over, and Sundays when she cooks tuna steaks marinated in lemon and black pepper and with a piquant sauce she makes from tomatos, onions and peppers. She is a very good cook, I' m not. I 'construct' rather than cook and will often chuck anything in the pan or pot that takes my fancy.
Today I constructed a thick vegetable soup with about seven different vegetables, topped with cheese and served with fresh crusty bread from the village bakery. Must have cost all of €4 for huge helpings for the two of us.
I read somewhere, El Pais, I think, that young Spaniards are becoming more obese. No doubt from fast food and fizzy drinks.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Pot Noodles are the ultimate depths of synthetic food experience...
> I cook because I'm used to eating home-cooked food. I also eat at a well-laid table. But I don't think that' s a better or worse habit than someone who comes home from a stressful day sitting in front of the tv with a ready-made dinner on a tray. It' s just what I did as a child and carried on doing. My son and his family do it too. Must be in the genes.
> When we lived in Prague I would have killed for one of those M&S dinners, so awful was food quality there. I used to salivate when I sáw the ads on tv. It gave a whole new meaning to what constitutes pornography...
> I do the cooking except for when we have lunch or dinner guests when, mercifully for the guests, Sandra takes over, and Sundays when she cooks tuna steaks marinated in lemon and black pepper and with a piquant sauce she makes from tomatos, onions and peppers. She is a very good cook, I' m not. I 'construct' rather than cook and will often chuck anything in the pan or pot that takes my fancy.
> ...



How dare you? How dare you mention those filthy words P£$^% N&*(*^&* in the same sentence as "food"?
Mary we don't want to know what is in your jeans when we are talking about food!  especially when you also mention pornography in the same post. You'll be giving us recipes for _platano con C*j*n*s_ next.
Your soup sounds like you - divine! (grovel, grovel)
Your construction classes sound as though they are paying off.
For me, Cooking is akin to Chemistry, causing various elements to fuse together each adding its USP to the rest of the components to be (hopefully) a tasty and satisfying dish. (Mushroom and Walnut Cobbler on Saturday!)

Young Spaniards like the young, everywhere are influenced by the media and the need to 'hang-out' with their contemporaries in various rendezvous and to eat proper home-cooked food at home is considered "un-cool" (or so I am told!)


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> How dare you? How dare you mention those filthy words P£$^% N&*(*^&* in the same sentence as "food"?
> Mary we don't want to know what is in your jeans when we are talking about food!  especially when you also mention pornography in the same post. You'll be giving us recipes for _platano con C*j*n*s_ next.
> Your soup sounds like you - divine! (grovel, grovel)
> Your construction classes sound as though they are paying off.
> ...



my elder daughter (OMG she'll be 18 on Friday ) has just come back from a week in the UK on a school trip

they were a group of 17 - 25 year olds - 38 of them with 3 teachers & were given a fair bit of freedom & a daily allowance to explore outside the organised trips & to eat where they chose. They were staying in a B&B hostel. 

She & her friends (all the rest are Spanish natives - she's the only non-Spanish in her year at school) enjoted the KFC & McDonalds the first day or so, but by about day 3 they were desperate for something fresher & healthier!!


when they eat out here, yes they sometimes go to McDs - but far more often they go for a menú (& spend less & enjoy it more!)


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