# is Dubai sinking!



## merlin the learned (Jun 12, 2009)

A colleague recently attending a conference on international monetary investments overheard an international expert with 25 years Middle East experience including 9 years in Dubai reply when asked about Dubai’s future, “Titanic with Arab attitudes at the helm”


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## mrbig (Sep 10, 2009)

merlin the learned said:


> A colleague recently attending a conference on international monetary investments overheard an international expert with 25 years Middle East experience including 9 years in Dubai reply when asked about Dubai’s future, “Titanic with Arab attitudes at the helm”


No, but this post is!

Sounds to me like you're another xpat that couldnt hack it in Dubai so you resort to slander.


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## merlin the learned (Jun 12, 2009)

mrbig said:


> No, but this post is!
> 
> Sounds to me like you're another xpat that couldnt hack it in Dubai so you resort to slander.


Dont shoot the messanger or did it touch a nerve!!

My Dubai association has and is still financially sucessful, even with the downturn obviously not the same for some others. 

Interesting that you use the term slander...dos'ent apply if the contention is factual


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## mrbig (Sep 10, 2009)

Its ok merlin, we all understand you are bitter.. no worries.
better luck in the future.


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## Glasceb (Jul 15, 2008)

Dubai is still struggling and it'll take a very long time and some serious cash to get the confidence back. My company are having to make more redundancies and salary cuts because we are owed major money from government linked developers who despite getting some of the $10 billion bond in May are still not honouring their debts.


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## titirangi (Aug 14, 2008)

Glasceb said:


> Dubai is still struggling and it'll take a very long time and some serious cash to get the confidence back. My company are having to make more redundancies and salary cuts because we are owed major money from government linked developers who despite getting some of the $10 billion bond in May are still not honouring their debts.


Plenty of examples of SMB being squeezed by govt related clients (aren't they all?). 

Had a farewell lunch with one just 2 weeks back, consulting biz, 10 weeks without payment whilst still on the job, packed up and gone home. Projects are pretty much stuffed without them which Will cost many times more to remedy but the clients just don't have timely access to cash right now.

It will likely get better with time, just stinks right now.


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## flossie (Jun 9, 2008)

Mr. Big, why so angry?

Judging by the amount of families I know who are either still here, hanging in the hope of finding work, or are on their way home, Dubai isn't getting any better. And these are recent lay offs, not the ones that happened before the end of the last school year. I'd say it has a long way to go.

Luckily for us, we don't have to rely on the Governments abilities to pay their bills to stay here, so I guess there will still be quite a few like us who will remain and take advantage of the cheaper rents, quieter roads.


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## dizzyizzy (Mar 30, 2008)

the thing is that, like with anything, we only hear about the bad news, I still have my job, but I am not going to come here and do a post and say it, am I... ?? From my group of friends, which is around 40 people, only two lost their jobs. One packed and went back home, the other one stayed and found a new job. This was back in December. Nobody else that I know of has lost their job since then. My company has not laid off one single employee. So is not that bad. There is a massive downturn of course, but it's the same almost everywhere. But Dubai going to the sink? I don't think so. They will definitely have to rectify and start being more realistic and grounded on their planning and expectations. But this is not turning into a ghost town. Rents and property are going down to more realistic prices now, so that's good. Schools still have long waiting lists. My company is still doing business. The company next to us closed. My point, if people chose to focus their attention on the bad, they are going to find lots of that. If they chose to focus their attention on the good, they are going to find lots of that too. I rather focus on the positive


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## dizzyizzy (Mar 30, 2008)

In fact I have met MORE people who moved here because they got jobs, than the ones who are leaving because they lost theirs.


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## titirangi (Aug 14, 2008)

dizzyizzy said:


> the thing is that, like with anything, we only hear about the bad news, I still have my job, but I am not going to come here and do a post and say it, am I... ?? From my group of friends, which is around 40 people, only two lost their jobs. One packed and went back home, the other one stayed and found a new job. This was back in December. Nobody else that I know of has lost their job since then. My company has not laid off one single employee. So is not that bad. There is a massive downturn of course, but it's the same almost everywhere. But Dubai going to the sink? I don't think so. They will definitely have to rectify and start being more realistic and grounded on their planning and expectations. But this is not turning into a ghost town. Rents and property are going down to more realistic prices now, so that's good. Schools still have long waiting lists. My company is still doing business. The company next to us closed. My point, if people chose to focus their attention on the bad, they are going to find lots of that. If they chose to focus their attention on the good, they are going to find lots of that too. I rather focus on the positive


@dizzy, you are right to focus on the positive in life, surround yourself with positive energy and all that. At the same time it is prudent to keep your "eyes wide open". 

This post started out with a loose anecdote, interesting in that it was from a seemingly experienced financial analyst and touched on how cultural impacts etc, might be amplified by the significant changes to macro-economic environment.

Stuff like wasta, transparency and arab negotiation "skill" which has been "proven" tremendously successful during a rising tide, might be tested to the extreme now the tide has gone out.

Again, it is what it is and good to stay positive. Just not smart to close your mind to what is going on all around you, especially when virtually nothing is reported in the media and you have to go to a web forum to get the skinny.


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## mrbig (Sep 10, 2009)

flossie said:


> Mr. Big, why so angry?
> 
> .


Not angry silly.
Just tired of the posters who come here to post negative things about Dubai because they couldnt cut it or had a bad exp. I want to hear the fantastic stories like I made my first million here in Dubai or I did blah blah. ya feel me


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## stewart (Jun 21, 2009)

merlin the learned said:


> A colleague recently attending a conference on international monetary investments overheard an international expert with 25 years Middle East experience including 9 years in Dubai reply when asked about Dubai’s future, “Titanic with Arab attitudes at the helm”


Well I suppose in some feilds it has slowed, but my company is still going full steam ahead even though we have branched to A.D as well, but still got lots happening here in Dubai.

For the greedy that want to make millions over night and run, yes that ball game is over for now.


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## Maz25 (Jul 6, 2008)

I definitely agree with Izzy! I lost my job last year and found a new one. My company is still expanding - a clear sign that things are not as bad as it used to be. Things will improve but we definitely need to give it time and appreciate that the good old days are long gone. Different companies have been affected in different ways so it is not necessarily all good or all bad - each company is different. Whilst we need to be aware of what is going on around us, it is a waste to focus on the negative only. One thing I learnt when I was made redundant is that good things can come out of negative situations and sometimes we have to embrace the things that we have and be thankful for them rather than focus on what we do not have and seem to want! There are people out there who are still being affected and are clinging to the hope that things will improve - let's not deprive them of that! Facts rather than hearsay should be what we are communicating at the mo! The UAE is not unique - almost every country has been affected by the recession!


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## stewart (Jun 21, 2009)

Maz25 said:


> I definitely agree with Izzy! I lost my job last year and found a new one. My company is still expanding - a clear sign that things are not as bad as it used to be. Things will improve but we definitely need to give it time and appreciate that the good old days are long gone. Different companies have been affected in different ways so it is not necessarily all good or all bad - each company is different. Whilst we need to be aware of what is going on around us, it is a waste to focus on the negative only. One thing I learnt when I was made redundant is that good things can come out of negative situations and sometimes we have to embrace the things that we have and be thankful for them rather than focus on what we do not have and seem to want! There are people out there who are still being affected and are clinging to the hope that things will improve - let's not deprive them of that! Facts rather than hearsay should be what we are communicating at the mo! The UAE is not unique - almost every country has been affected by the recession!


Well said and I totally agree,


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## merlin the learned (Jun 12, 2009)

mrbig said:


> Not angry silly.
> Just tired of the posters who come here to post negative things about Dubai because they couldnt cut it or had a bad exp. I want to hear the fantastic stories like I made my first million here in Dubai or I did blah blah. ya feel me


Perhaps I have the advantage of seeing a bigger international picture...my business operation currently has long term project contracts in several countries including Dubai. You may only want good news, don't we all but thats also a sympton of denial.


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## titirangi (Aug 14, 2008)

I'm in similar boat as @merlin, plenty of projects to do in other countries which makes me a bit more critical of current position. It is what it is, it ain't personal.

As the saying goes, if you don't like it leave. My view is you keep assessing your gig objectively and when the whole deal no longer stacks up its time to go. For me the timetoleaveometer is sitting at around 7/10.


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## mrbig (Sep 10, 2009)

merlin the learned said:


> Perhaps I have the advantage of seeing a bigger international picture...my business operation currently has long term project contracts in several countries including Dubai. You may only want good news, don't we all but thats also a sympton of denial.


I've allready made my millions, still reaping the benefits from that. I have been retired for 7.5 years and I am only 33. So no, no denial here.:eyebrows:


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## marc (Mar 10, 2008)

^^ why are you in green community west?


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## GALLUS (Jan 22, 2009)

*Angry? Why?*

Dubai was build on sand, but please refrain from using derogatory sentences when talking about my Arab brothers and sisters.

We might see Dubai sinking yes, but before it does fortunes will have changed hands, and you'll be surprised where the next Dubai will be...

Best regards

Gallus


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## marc (Mar 10, 2008)

It seems who ever has not done well doesn't seem to like this place anymore and has a lot of resentment against it. - very childish. 

I personally think this is one of the top places in the world for business and find it amazing to be apart of.

everyone who lost there job / company or whoever has not made money of what they thought they would hates it.

of course there's going to be problems and things they are not used to, its an Emerging market - you shouldn't compare it to USA and London who have been around for 200 years plus.


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## mrbig (Sep 10, 2009)

marc said:


> ^^ why are you in green community west?


Why not? I have 2 nice 3m aed villas, nice schools for my kids, driving distance to dubai and abu d, what is there not to like mate? Come over and chill with me., play some ps3, see how I roll.


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## merlin the learned (Jun 12, 2009)

mrbig said:


> Its ok merlin, we all understand you are bitter.. no worries.
> better luck in the future.


Perhaps your condesending responses reflect the deeper fear and dissapointment of one that has committed himself to a failing enterprize without an escape strategy and feels if he keeps flogging the pitch, maybe someone will believe.

Unfortunately like the fate of coalmans old nag, flog away but destiny was still the nackers yard


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## MikkiD (Jun 23, 2009)

I have only been here a short while but am very optimistic about building a life here, even though my husband just had a 15% cut in his salary. (Seems like employment contracts is not worth the paper it is written on). I am sure he will find something else soon. And Mr Big is sooo right about the Green Community, we are looking at some places to rent there at the moment and I think it is lovely there. 
Dubai is still faring better economically than some other countries.


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## mrbig (Sep 10, 2009)

merlin the learned said:


> Perhaps your condesending responses reflect the deeper fear and dissapointment of one that has committed himself to a failing enterprize without an escape strategy and feels if he keeps flogging the pitch, maybe someone will believe.
> 
> Unfortunately like the fate of coalmans old nag, flog away but destiny was still the nackers yard


My bank accounts dont lie ole chap.
If you call this failing then I love it. lol. I am going to flog untill I can not flog anymore. just call me the flog master.


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## merlin the learned (Jun 12, 2009)

mrbig said:


> My bank accounts dont lie ole chap.
> If you call this failing then I love it. lol. I am going to flog untill I can not flog anymore. just call me the flog master.


"and the musicians continued to play and the barmen served passengers their drinks but all the while Titanic"...and the rest is history


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## titirangi (Aug 14, 2008)

Leave it out fellas.


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## Sean_C (Oct 20, 2009)

Dubai rocks! Just buy buy buy while the prices are down!!!


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## merlin the learned (Jun 12, 2009)

mrbig said:


> My bank accounts dont lie ole chap.
> If you call this failing then I love it. lol. I am going to flog untill I can not flog anymore. just call me the flog master.


Dubai $80 billion debt put on hold, I dont like to say it but I told you so. Sometimes Mr BIG it pays to look a liitle deeper than the comfort zone of your own circumstance!

The Dubai situ is the result of reckless Arab greed overuling common sense, due diligence and feasibility PoC. I'm not in the financial game but even I saw what was happening while managing projects for locals.

When a ruler spends $120million that he dosen't have on frivilous luxury items its time to pack up.


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## mrbig (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm very comfortable thanks.
Will be for a very long time.
Thanks for careing.


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## Elphaba (Jan 24, 2008)

Play nice or I am closing this thread.

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