# Realistic Monthly Cost of living in Mexico?



## challenger2

I'm really learning a lot from these threads and your willingness to share info from your collective brain trust. Many who are curious about the "big move" are not able to take the time or long travels needed to thoroughly sample a community of interest. Thanks again to all of you who are willing to share the good info or bad experiences. I hope to retire in a few years and I'm looking at North Baja as a destination.

I have been told by a few Americans who sell property in North Baja that a retired couple can live very comfortably on less than $1000 a month in a 3 bed/2bath home with pool in a gated golf comunity. Since that source has an interest in selling property in Mexico, I'm wary of just how truthful they may be. I'm sure it varies with your living style and location but are you willing to offer a sample of your monthly costs for:

--Utilities
--Dining out/entertainment
--Rent or mortgage
--Operating vehicles(s)/gas
--Groceries
--Medical/Dental/Rx
--Travel 
--anything else

If you'd rather just provide a total with a sample of you typical activites etc. that will be very useful info. And just as important---are you seeing stable prices or at least manageable increases in Cost of Living?


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## mickisue1

Before you start thinking about the cost of living, it is a good idea to look at the new income requirements for temporary and permanent visas to live in MX.

Beyond what you'll spend, which you wisely noted is very contingent on what you think of as necessary for a good life, is the need to show a certain level of income or assets in order to be able to live there in the first place.

There are a number of threads here and on other sites, discussing the new requirements, with links to English translation (if your Spanish is as sketchy as mine!) of those requirements.


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## mes1952

If you don't count the purchase of property in North Baja that might be realistic but I doubt it unless you are one of those Americans in Baja who don't do much but sit inside and watch TV or on the web. Baja is the most expensive place to live due to the influx of Americans and most Americans don't save much $$ because they continue to live the American lifestyle and pay more for everything. 
And things will definitely change (and prices increase) every year so your calculations won't be realistic in another 2 years esp. if the Mexican economy improves. And how much it costs depends entirely on where you live and how you live. So the best thing to do is start reading the local Mexican news of where you plan to live to see how much things will change (and they definitely will) in the next 2 years.


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## challenger2

mickisue1 said:


> Before you start thinking about the cost of living, it is a good idea to look at the new income requirements for temporary and permanent visas to live in MX.
> 
> Beyond what you'll spend, which you wisely noted is very contingent on what you think of as necessary for a good life, is the need to show a certain level of income or assets in order to be able to live there in the first place.
> 
> There are a number of threads here and on other sites, discussing the new requirements, with links to English translation (if your Spanish is as sketchy as mine!) of those requirements.


Great point on the "new hurdle" for income. I've been reading about that requirement and it appears that it will not be a problem. I've also been told that other issues (car imports & Visas?) are handled differently in the border regions or "Tourista" zones of Baja as opposed to mainland Mexico. 

The couple I referred to in my first post most likely built their Baja home after selling their SFO/Bay area home when the economy was strong and have no mortgage/rent while living on $1000 a month. Both are healthy and active outdoorsy types.


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## TundraGreen

This is a perennial question. I used to just tell people that the numbers vary so much from one individual to another that it is meaningless to answer it. I still think that, but a few answers can give you some perspective on what others' costs are. What your costs will be depends very strongly on your life style. Items that one person considers an useless luxury will be someone else's absolute necessity.

Having said that, I spend about $100,000 mxn per year (maybe $8,000 usd/year) for expenses living in Mexico. This does not include travel out of the country which might amount to several thousand dollars a year since I have a daughter in Europe that I visit every year. 

My Mexico expenses are low because:
I am single
I do not have a car, nor car expenses like gas and insurance
I own the house I live in (the number above includes maintenance items)
I do not heat or cool the house
I rarely eat in restaurants
I rarely drink in bars
Most of my recreation is free or inexpensive: movies several times a week (but they are either free or very cheap, $15 pesos), walking, running, visiting friends
I cook most of my food from scratch eating very few expensive processed products
And I don't eat animals
I do pay nearly $600 mxn/monthly for internet access probably one of my more expensive habits.

Consequently, I would guess that my cost of living is probably a lower bound on what is possible.


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## mickisue1

And, Will, you have MX government insurance, which is much less expensive than buying out of country insurance from an American company.


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## TundraGreen

mickisue1 said:


> And, Will, you have MX government insurance, which is much less expensive than buying out of country insurance from an American company.


True and, this year, I had some out of pocket medical expenses because IMSS wouldn't see me until June.


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## thinkering

*Internet Speed*



TundraGreen said:


> This is a perennial question. I used to just tell people that the numbers vary so much from one individual to another that it is meaningless to answer it. I still think that, but a few answers can give you some perspective on what others' costs are. What your costs will be depends very strongly on your life style. Items that one person considers an useless luxury will be someone else's absolute necessity.
> 
> Having said that, I spend about $100,000 mxn per year (maybe $8,000 usd/year) for expenses living in Mexico. This does not include travel out of the country which might amount to several thousand dollars a year since I have a daughter in Europe that I visit every year.
> 
> My Mexico expenses are low because:
> I am single
> I do not have a car, nor car expenses like gas and insurance
> I own the house I live in (the number above includes maintenance items)
> I do not heat or cool the house
> I rarely eat in restaurants
> I rarely drink in bars
> Most of my recreation is free or inexpensive: movies several times a week (but they are either free or very cheap, $15 pesos), walking, running, visiting friends
> I cook most of my food from scratch eating very few expensive processed products
> And I don't eat animals
> I do pay nearly $600 mxn/monthly for internet access probably one of my more expensive habits.
> 
> Consequently, I would guess that my cost of living is probably a lower bound on what is possible.


Hi TundraGreen,
For the internet that you have, what is the speed? Is it the fastest internet access available?

I'll be moving to Mexico by the end of the year (D.F.), and internet reliability is one of my main concerns as I need it for business, ok, some pleasure too!


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## TundraGreen

thinkering said:


> Hi TundraGreen,
> For the internet that you have, what is the speed? Is it the fastest internet access available?
> 
> I'll be moving to Mexico by the end of the year (D.F.), and internet reliability is one of my main concerns as I need it for business, ok, some pleasure too!


The quoted speed is 10 Mbps. As measured by speedtest.net, the actual speed is 0.7 Mbps upload and about 27 or 28 Mbps download. Faster connections may be available, if you are willing to pay for them. Megacable advertises 5, 10, 20, 50, and 100 Mbps connections, but not all speeds are available in all locations. They have an online tool that will tell you what is available in a particular location.

My connection started as 5 nominal and 4.7 actual a few years ago, then automatically upgraded, first to 10 nominal and actual, then to 20 actual, and finally to near 30 actual. They must be upgrading their equipment. Upload speeds have remained slow, but I don't do that so much so it is not a problem for me. It might be for others, depending on what you are doing on the internet. The slow upload speed did mean that when I first signed up for a cloud backup service, it took a month or more to make the first copy.


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## AlanMexicali

challenger2 said:


> I'm really learning a lot from these threads and your willingness to share info from your collective brain trust. Many who are curious about the "big move" are not able to take the time or long travels needed to thoroughly sample a community of interest. Thanks again to all of you who are willing to share the good info or bad experiences. I hope to retire in a few years and I'm looking at North Baja as a destination.
> 
> I have been told by a few Americans who sell property in North Baja that a retired couple can live very comfortably on less than $1000 a month in a 3 bed/2bath home with pool in a gated golf comunity. Since that source has an interest in selling property in Mexico, I'm wary of just how truthful they may be. I'm sure it varies with your living style and location but are you willing to offer a sample of your monthly costs for:
> 
> --Utilities
> --Dining out/entertainment
> --Rent or mortgage
> --Operating vehicles(s)/gas
> --Groceries
> --Medical/Dental/Rx
> --Travel
> --anything else
> 
> If you'd rather just provide a total with a sample of you typical activites etc. that will be very useful info. And just as important---are you seeing stable prices or at least manageable increases in Cost of Living?


I did an experiment for 15 months when living in Mexicali. I tried to keep my expenses down to $1,500 US a month and this was in the 2000s when the pesos was at around $14.00 pesos to $1 US. I had a paid off house and ate in resturants 3 times a week on average except when friends visited.

I had a paid off car I keep insured and registered in the US, never had Mexican insurance. I kept the air conditioning at 83 F and used fans to keep cool. In the end I could not keep to the $1,500 US per month almost every month of the year. I did not count my trips to San Diego, but did count my trips to TJ and Rosarito. I did a lot of driving every day. I went to many quinceneras and Cumpleanos and bought nice gifts and helped out 2 families who needed it every month with food and necessities and trips to Rosarito to have fun and escape the heat sometimes. Gas was a big expense. I had people over for dinner quite often. I has cable internet and basic cable TV, a land line and a central Alarm service. Alan


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## AlanMexicali

I forgot to mention Telcel cards every week cost quite a bit with no plans available then except 5 Telcel Amigos. This is a major expense necessity and well worth the high cost. IMO


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## mes1952

I agree with Tundra. I am in these same categories and I live on less than $900 month and I have a car (paid) and no credit cards. My exception is that I have 2 small dogs and make all their food so it's cheaper than buying the expensive Mexican pet food. I spend $100/month on gas to/from San Diego for work and buy almost everything in Mexico esp. food items.
I am single
I rent an apartment for $320/mth with security/utilities & cable included)
I pay 400 pesos/mth for mobile internet connection (which I consider a necessity)
I use fans for a couple of months here when it's too hot for my dogs.
I rarely eat in restaurants as the food I cook is much better and more variety
I don't drink in bars unless I'm with a date
I cook most of my food from scratch with very few processed products
And I 'm a strict vegetarian (no fish/any meat)
I buy most of my groceries in Mexican grocers and sometimes in the sobre rudas here which are sometimes cheaper than stores depending on the item.
I eat a very healthy diet which I feel is much cheaper to do than in the U.S. as fruits and vegetables here are much cheaper and fresher. I feed my dogs primarily a raw meat diet and the only meat I buy in the U.S. is the occasional lamb (where I purchase in Middle Eastern stores).


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## Isla Verde

AlanMexicali said:


> I forgot to mention Telcel cards every week cost quite a bit with no plans available then except 5 Telcel Amigos. This is a major expense necessity and well worth the high cost. IMO


What's a Telcel card? I have Telcel and buy "tiempo aire" online. I use my cell phone mostly to send text messages and end up spending about $100 (that's pesos) a month.


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## challenger2

Great info. Really appreciate your efforts to inform and offer your experience. I've lived abroad for many years in the military and working for private industry but it's always nice to have some measure of info in advance to minimize surprises. Since I'm also single, I'll probably eat out a few times a week and explore the region around me in retirement. I've noticed on my visits to North Baja (San Felipe) area that ATV's and sand rails are popular with groups that head out for a day in the open desert---so there could be some extra gas expenses. 

Keep the info coming. Does it appear that most people are home/condo owners vs renters...would you change it if you had to do it over? How about the cost of utilities in your area? Since Mexico has diverse climates, I'm curious how expensive it can be in the humid or desert areas.


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## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> What's a Telcel card? I have Telcel and buy "tiempo aire" online. I use my cell phone mostly to send text messages and end up spending about $100 (that's pesos) a month.


I didn't know you could buy air time on line. I will have to look into that next time my phone runs out.


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> I didn't know you could buy air time on line. I will have to look into that next time my phone runs out.


Here you go: 
Telcel: Recarga Amigo


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## joaquinx

Isla Verde said:


> What's a Telcel card? I have Telcel and buy "tiempo aire" online. I use my cell phone mostly to send text messages and end up spending about $100 (that's pesos) a month.


Yes, it's the only way to go. I have an android, so I use very few SMS text messages. I opt for Whatsapp or Facebook messages. $50 (yep, that's pesos) a month.


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## AlanMexicali

Isla Verde said:


> What's a Telcel card? I have Telcel and buy "tiempo aire" online. I use my cell phone mostly to send text messages and end up spending about $100 (that's pesos) a month.


I always get the Telcel cards for 2 reasons. When I run out of saldo they have free pesos added to the cards. If I have saldo left they sometimes do not add free pesos if I recharge the phone at an OXXO without buying a card. 

If I ask at the OXXO they tell me how many free pesos are added with which cards. Many times in those days a $500.00 peso card would have a promotion with an extra $200.00, $300.00 and occationally even $400.00 pesos added. The $200.00 peso cards quite often had an extra $100.00 or $150.00 pesos added. 

I use the phone all the time and need at least $200.00 pesos a week to survive. I called long distance in Mexico every night for years. I text message like a teenager also. :clap2: Alan

I lived 1/2 block from "my" OXXO and it gave me a good excuse to go there and hang around and meet up with my neighbors and chat, drink Coke Light and snack on potato chips in the summer when sodio is needed in larger quantities. Gossip is more like it there. Watch the caravans of federal police trucks go by etc. , pretty ladies going into OXXO: so many good reasons and such good memories.


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## TundraGreen

AlanMexicali said:


> I always get the Telcel cards for 2 reasons. When I run out of saldo they have free pesos added to the cards. If I have saldo left they sometimes do not add free pesos if I recharge the phone at an OXXO without buying a card.…


Really? The amount of gift time that I get from Telcel appears to be a constant depending on how much time I add.

Denominación	Salgo Amigo	Saldo de Regalo	Vigencia
$20.00 $20.00 N/A 10 días
$30.00 $30.00 N/A 15 días
$50.00 $50.00 N/A 30 días
$100.00 $100.00 $20.00 60 días
$150.00 $150.00 $40.00 60 días
$200.00 $200.00 $60.00 60 días
$300.00 $300.00 $150.00 60 días
$500.00 $500.00 $400.00 60 días


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## AlanMexicali

TundraGreen said:


> Really? The amount of gift time that I get from Telcel appears to be a constant depending on how much time I add.
> 
> Denominación	Salgo Amigo	Saldo de Regalo	Vigencia
> $20.00 $20.00 N/A 10 días
> $30.00 $30.00 N/A 15 días
> $50.00 $50.00 N/A 30 días
> $100.00 $100.00 $20.00 60 días
> $150.00 $150.00 $40.00 60 días
> $200.00 $200.00 $60.00 60 días
> $300.00 $300.00 $150.00 60 días
> $500.00 $500.00 $400.00 60 días


They definately have refined it down to a science lately. In the first years they were hit and miss all over the place with their promotional free saldo at best. 

I have had a plan for a couple of years and take to the 5 minutes free to another Telcel user plan [$380.00/month] and save a bundle calling these 5 numbers usually. My friend with Moviestar rarely gets a call anymore.


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## Isla Verde

joaquinx said:


> Yes, it's the only way to go. I have an android, so I use very few SMS text messages. I opt for Whatsapp or Facebook messages. $50 (yep, that's pesos) a month.


I'm just an old-fashioned girl. I have a cheapy cell phone I bought 5 years ago for $300, no Android, no smart phone. I have no idea what Whatsapp is and have an aversion to using FB.


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## AlanMexicali

Isla Verde said:


> I'm just an old-fashioned girl. I have a cheapy cell phone I bought 5 years ago for $300, no Android, no smart phone. I have no idea what Whatsapp is and have an aversion to using FB.


I had until a few months ago my cheapy Nokia from Telcel [$300 pesos and $100 pesos saldo] that died and still have the chip in another old Telcel phone my wife gave me. It served me from 2005 very well. I still buy Telcel cards for this Mexicali # when there.


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> Really? The amount of gift time that I get from Telcel appears to be a constant depending on how much time I add.
> 
> Denominación	Salgo Amigo	Saldo de Regalo	Vigencia
> $20.00 $20.00 N/A 10 días
> $30.00 $30.00 N/A 15 días
> $50.00 $50.00 N/A 30 días
> $100.00 $100.00 $20.00 60 días
> $150.00 $150.00 $40.00 60 días
> $200.00 $200.00 $60.00 60 días
> $300.00 $300.00 $150.00 60 días
> $500.00 $500.00 $400.00 60 días


When I buy TA online, I pay for $100 worth of time and messages and always get 20 pesos free. About once a month I receive a message on my cell phone offering to double my money if I pay at least $100.


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## joaquinx

Isla Verde said:


> What's a Telcel card? I have Telcel and buy "tiempo aire" online. I use my cell phone mostly to send text messages and end up spending about $100 (that's pesos) a month.





Isla Verde said:


> I'm just an old-fashioned girl. I have a cheapy cell phone I bought 5 years ago for $300, no Android, no smart phone. I have no idea what Whatsapp is and have an aversion to using FB.


Whatsapp sends messages via data. A SMS text message costs .88 pesos. The charge for data is 1 pesos per 1 or 2 mB. I have sent 243+ messages in the past few months and consumed 1.7 mB of data or around 2 pesos. SMS fees would be around 210 pesos. Of course you can only send Whatsapp messages to those who have the app.


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## Isla Verde

joaquinx said:


> Whatsapp sends messages via data. A SMS text message costs .88 pesos. The charge for data is 1 pesos per 1 or 2 mB. I have sent 243+ messages in the past few months and consumed 1.7 mB of data or around 2 pesos. SMS fees would be around 210 pesos. Of course you can only send Whatsapp messages to those who have the app.


I assume you need a smart phone to be able to use Whatsapp. Maybe I'll get one some day, or maybe not . . .


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> Having said that, I spend about $100,000 mxn per year (maybe $8,000 usd/year) for expenses living in Mexico. This does not include travel out of the country which might amount to several thousand dollars a year since I have a daughter in Europe that I visit every year.
> 
> My Mexico expenses are low because:
> I am single
> I do not have a car, nor car expenses like gas and insurance
> I own the house I live in (the number above includes maintenance items)
> I do not heat or cool the house
> I rarely eat in restaurants
> I rarely drink in bars
> Most of my recreation is free or inexpensive: movies several times a week (but they are either free or very cheap, $15 pesos), walking, running, visiting friends
> I cook most of my food from scratch eating very few expensive processed products
> And I don't eat animals
> I do pay nearly $600 mxn/monthly for internet access probably one of my more expensive habits.
> 
> Consequently, I would guess that my cost of living is probably a lower bound on what is possible.


Here's my monthly budget, más o menos: I spend from 10,000 to 12,000 pesos a month, depending on what's going on in my life at the moment. I live alone in a very small apartment in Mexico City that I rent and pay my own utilities, including electricity, water, telephone/internet connection, cell phone, and gas for cooking and hot water. Since I don't have a car, I happily walk to where I want to go or take public transportation which is plentiful and cheap. I am omnivorous and eat out a lot, mostly at inexpensive restaurants in my neighborhood. When it gets really hot (like it's been lately in Mexico City, though not today, thank God!), I turn on one of two small fans I have. In the depths of winter, I turn on a small electric space heater that I fondly refer to as R2D2. For fun, I go to the movies or museums or go out for coffee with friends, or a good book. Since I'm over 60, I am eligible for senior citizen discounts at the movies and most museums and other cultural venues. I don't smoke and rarely drink anything stronger than lemonade. I do have a monthly outlay for cholesterol and blood pressure meds, for which I also get a discount at the Superama pharmacy. My one luxury is a fabulous haircut I get from my "estilista" Omar at the beauty shop around the corner.


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## Longford

mickisue1 said:


> And, Will, you have MX government insurance, which is much less expensive than buying out of country insurance from an American company.


There are Mexican-based insurance companies which offer healthcare insurance. And other options which don't include relying solely on an often (depending on location) inadequate Mexican public healthcare system.


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## mes1952

Here in Mexico I use a regular Amigo plan cell phone month-to-month with texting. It's a lot cheaper than buying a smart phone especially if you don't use it much. I'm not sure I would use a smart phone much here in Mexico as the minutes are more expensive than in the U.S.


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## Isla Verde

Longford said:


> There are Mexican-based insurance companies which offer healthcare insurance. And other options which don't include relying solely on an often (depending on location) inadequate Mexican public healthcare system.


I've had insurance from a private company here for 3 years. I was recently turned for a policy renewal because the results of blood and other tests they had me take came out with numbers they didn't like. So now I'm going to sign up for coverage with IMSS.


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## joaquinx

mes1952 said:


> Here in Mexico I use a regular Amigo plan cell phone month-to-month with texting. It's a lot cheaper than buying a smart phone especially if you don't use it much. I'm not sure I would use a smart phone much here in Mexico as the minutes are more expensive than in the U.S.


You're right. Those who buy a smartphone (me) use it for more than phone calls and SMS texting. I use Skype on the phone, whatsapp and facebook for texting and much, much more.


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## Longford

Isla Verde said:


> I've had insurance from a private company here for 3 years. I was recently turned for a policy renewal because the results of blood and other tests they had me take came out with numbers they didn't like. So now I'm going to sign up for coverage with IMSS.


In some parts of Mexico, IMSS had been, or still is cutting-off expats who'd had coverage. The reason: pre-existing conditions it had overlooked but was now enforcing restrictions about. And, it just wants to 'cull the herd' so to speak. Best of luck with the enrollment.


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## Isla Verde

Longford said:


> In some parts of Mexico, IMSS had been, or still is cutting-off expats who'd had coverage. The reason: pre-existing conditions it had overlooked but was now enforcing restrictions about. And, it just wants to 'cull the herd' so to speak. Best of luck with the enrollment.


I haven't heard of that happening in Mexico City, so I'm just going to ignore the information you've posted and hope for the best.


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## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> I haven't heard of that happening in Mexico City, so I'm just going to ignore the information you've posted and hope for the best.


I have heard it is a problem in Chapala/Ajijic, maybe because of the concentration of foreigners there.


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> I have heard it is a problem in Chapala/Ajijic, maybe because of the concentration of foreigners there.


I've read about that too. Another good reason for not living in an expat bubble  !


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## thinkering

joaquinx said:


> You're right. Those who buy a smartphone (me) use it for more than phone calls and SMS texting. I use Skype on the phone, whatsapp and facebook for texting and much, much more.


Yes, and navigation on the smartphone! Google Navigation (turn by turn directions) now works in Mexico City, including the remote areas (outskirts). This saved me a lot of trouble this year and was not available the previous time I went. The map and navigation was surprisingly accurate and a significant improvement from trying to use a paper map at night in the city.

I didn't have this on my first several trips, and I drove around for hours at night previously trying find my destination. With the navigation working I took a wrong turn here and there but the phone automatically updated the driving instructions.


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## AlanMexicali

challenger2 said:


> Great info. Really appreciate your efforts to inform and offer your experience. I've lived abroad for many years in the military and working for private industry but it's always nice to have some measure of info in advance to minimize surprises. Since I'm also single, I'll probably eat out a few times a week and explore the region around me in retirement. I've noticed on my visits to North Baja (San Felipe) area that ATV's and sand rails are popular with groups that head out for a day in the open desert---so there could be some extra gas expenses.
> 
> Keep the info coming. Does it appear that most people are home/condo owners vs renters...would you change it if you had to do it over? How about the cost of utilities in your area? Since Mexico has diverse climates, I'm curious how expensive it can be in the humid or desert areas.


CFE has different policies on different climatic zones in Mexico. They have a tiered system of kilowatt per hour charges and gov´t. subsidizes that have a 3 tired rate called the DAC. Many places if you comsume beyond the bottom tier which is subsidized to a large degree your bill will be much less than if you go over the minimum usage into the other 2 tiers which will make your bill more than NOB per kilowatt hour usually.

In Mexicali and I presume in San Filipe they lock the heavily subsidized rate for 6 summer months per year regardless of your comsumption so going over the minimum keeps your bill low. However in the cold winter months your bill goes over some months and the bill is very high. In most of Mexico they read the meters and bill bimonthly but in Baja Norte they read and bill monthly.


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## mes1952

Here in Rosarito in Baja Norte I live in a building in downtown/hotel zone and our rates are higher than in the outlying neighborhoods because we are in a commercial zone.


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## mes1952

Talking about health insurance plans, can anyone recommend a good private insurance plan here in Mexico that is nationwide. I don't have any health problems and need a good basic policy since I will be traveling around Mexico in the near future.


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## TundraGreen

mes1952 said:


> Talking about health insurance plans, can anyone recommend a good private insurance plan here in Mexico that is nationwide. I don't have any health problems and need a good basic policy since I will be traveling around Mexico in the near future.


IMSS would be a possibility for that. They have facilities everywhere and their emergency room service is pretty good.


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## mickisue1

There is an app available for the iPhone, have no idea if it's available for Android.

It's called Viber, and, once installed, can be used both to send texts and make phone calls internationally. I learned about it when a friend was in Paris.

Because the phone doesn't "know" that you are sending text or calling another country, you just pay regular rates. We have unlimited talk and text, so if my offspring in other countries would get smartphones, we'd be all set!

As it is, though, we'll be able to use it with the two in the US, when WE are out of the country.


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## mickisue1

mickisue1 said:


> There is an app available for the iPhone, have no idea if it's available for Android.
> 
> It's called Viber, and, once installed, can be used both to send texts and make phone calls internationally. I learned about it when a friend was in Paris.
> 
> Because the phone doesn't "know" that you are sending text or calling another country, you just pay regular rates. We have unlimited talk and text, so if my offspring in other countries would get smartphones, we'd be all set!
> 
> As it is, though, we'll be able to use it with the two in the US, when WE are out of the country.


I have no idea how this ended up in this discussion. It was in response to comments about cell phones in a different conversation. Sorry for the seeming off-topicness.

The internet zombies moved it, apparently!


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## joaquinx

mickisue1 said:


> There is an app available for the iPhone, have no idea if it's available for Android.
> 
> It's called Viber, and, once installed, can be used both to send texts and make phone calls internationally. I learned about it when a friend was in Paris.
> 
> Because the phone doesn't "know" that you are sending text or calling another country, you just pay regular rates. We have unlimited talk and text, so if my offspring in other countries would get smartphones, we'd be all set!
> 
> As it is, though, we'll be able to use it with the two in the US, when WE are out of the country.


Another VOIP like Skype. I tried it once, but since I have Skype and Whatsapp, another app of the same genre would redundant.


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## mickisue1

My apologies. The post above about Viber is in the right thread. Apparently, I was commenting on an older part of this discussion, and didn't notice how far it had moved on in the meantime.


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## AlanMexicali

Isla Verde said:


> I haven't heard of that happening in Mexico City, so I'm just going to ignore the information you've posted and hope for the best.


That has happened at Lakeside where Expats had signed up for the IMSS by facilitators that had not disclosed previous chronic medical conditions, had not gone to their closest clinic for any service, had not gotten any primary medical tests and some for years paying the annual fee.

Then when they finally waltzed into the IMSS clinic or IMSS hospital to get medical service where discovered to have chronic illness not covered by IMSS and got booted. This is a fraud the facilitators caused and was finally stopped due to the years of restructuring of the IMSS and cutting costs and corruption to be able to keep paying their retirees their pensions. Alan


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## AlanMexicali

mes1952 said:


> Here in Rosarito in Baja Norte I live in a building in downtown/hotel zone and our rates are higher than in the outlying neighborhoods because we are in a commercial zone.


Well this is not exactly true. The CFE does give good rates to commercial customers and is a policy to attract factories and businesses in the "Free Zone" of Baja Norte. They also offer a 50% reduced rate if the owner supplies their own transformer and maintains it. Most savvy business owners have one and those that lease want only rentals with one. It appears your owner does not and passes the higher rate onto his renters. Maybe where you rented before they had their own transformer. Alan


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## leader1968

*Expenses*

Depends on where you live and yo0ur lifestyle. I have lived in Patzcuaro, Michoacán for a year and a half now. My very specific basic expenses are:

Apartment- 4,000 Pesos, month for about 1,000 sq ft, 2 bed, bath and a half.
Electricity- 350 pesos per m. more or less
Propane- 150 pesos m.
Megacable- 1,000 m., TV, Phone (US and Canada no limit), Internet 10mbs

Garbage service is free and water is a fixed rate paid by the landlord at this time.
Anything else I forgot? food, of course, depends on what you want to eat. Here in Patzcuaro no one starves, food is inexpensive.


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## mes1952

Well. we were told by the owners of this apartment building that it is because we are in a commercial area. So who knows what is the real reason. Fortunately, I only have one year more here in Baja and then I'm out of here to somewhere else on the mainland of Mexico that is less expensive.


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## phredo

I just have to get my 2 cents in about a cheap way to make phone calls in Mexico I (think I) have discovered, although I have not exactly used it yet. Before a recent trip from the US to San Jose del Cabo, I had just bought my first smartphone and did a lot of research on how to make cheap phone calls. My best idea, although I did not put it into practice (I was only there for two weeks) is the following.

Buy Rebtel's VOIP service, which allows you to make calls for pretty much the same price, about 1.8 cents/minute either within Mexico or the US or from one to the other. You can get an app for android and I suppose iphones that will let you dial out with either wifi or data, so that's fine if you have it. But even if you don't have those, you can place a call to a number in DF that will then make the rest of the call anywhere for the 1.8 cents/minute. What about the first part of the call, the leg to the DF number? Simple: get an amigo plan and make that one of your numbers. Since receiving phone calls in Mexico on a cell phone is free (like landline receiving is free in the US), you will therefore never pay more than 1.8 cents per minute for phone calls again.

I also believe that the Rebtel android app will make it "transparent" to dial the DF number, that it, you would just use it to dial the number you want and the app would take care of dialing the DF number. But I forget exactly if that it how it works, so in the worst case you would have to dial the DF number, then enter a PIN code and the number you want. But I think it's easier than that.

Sorry, I know this is a nice thread about living expenses in Mexico, and that's why I started reading it, but I've been waiting for the opportunity to pass my idea along. :ranger: By the way, I have used Rebtel a lot from my PC to make cheap phone calls to Mexico, and I also used it in Mexico from my smartphone to make calls when I had free wifi available. So the service works well and the app worked well for what I used it for. Also, when I paid my first $10 (all I have ever paid), they doubled it to $20, so I guess you could say I'm really paying 0.9 cents per minute.


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## joydeep.kundu

I am from India. Need to go to Guadalajara for work purpose. 

Q1. I want to know that what would be good monthly salary in US $ or Mexican Peso so that I can have a saving of 1000 US $ or 13000 Mexican peso per month. 

I have a normal life style. No drink or smoking habit. Only need to pay rent, electricity, transport, internet and foods. 

Q2. What are the taxes I need to pay. 

Thanks in advance.


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## surfrider

I have found that my medication is very expensive here in Mexico. I only take two drugs but they are both medically necessary. One drug cost me 340.00 usd a month. In fact I can order Mexican drugs from a company based in California and get them shipped to me in Mexico for $24 USD cheaper than purchasing them here in Mexico. Go figure? So if you take any medication you need to check out the price and if you can get that drug here in Mexico. Your life style will determine your expenses and that varies between all of us.


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## Bobbyb

As others have stated the OP has posed a question that is impossible to answer. What type of lifestyle do you expect to lead in Mexico? Do you eat out frequently? Will you be living in an area with lots of summer heat. How large is your house? How is it heated/cooled? Do you drive a car? Are you a person who must have NOB goods. How old are you/ Age will affect the cost of health insurance. Personally I would not use the IMSS system. BUT there are some areas in Mexico where the system is not bad. There are other areas where the Drs. are horrible and the facilities beyond description. Still 2 people living on $1000 a month is a stretch. Inflation is a big factor. lately all grocery items have risen a lot: Beef, Chicken, , dairy and even LIMES! Someone mentioned working from home on their computer. I recently read that to do this legally you need a Residente with a work permit.


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## joydeep.kundu

Bobbyb said:


> As others have stated the OP has posed a question that is impossible to answer. What type of lifestyle do you expect to lead in Mexico? Do you eat out frequently? Will you be living in an area with lots of summer heat. How large is your house? How is it heated/cooled? Do you drive a car? Are you a person who must have NOB goods. How old are you/ Age will affect the cost of health insurance. Personally I would not use the IMSS system. BUT there are some areas in Mexico where the system is not bad. There are other areas where the Drs. are horrible and the facilities beyond description. Still 2 people living on $1000 a month is a stretch. Inflation is a big factor. lately all grocery items have risen a lot: Beef, Chicken, , dairy and even LIMES! Someone mentioned working from home on their computer. I recently read that to do this legally you need a Residente with a work permit.


I Need to go to Guadalajara for work purpose. 

Q1. I have a normal life style. No drink or smoking habit. Only need to pay rent, electricity, transport, internet and foods. 

I can not cook. So keeping cook or eating outside would be a good option in Guadalajara?

Age 30 and I am single.

Keeping all this in view what is the monthly expense needed?

Q2. What are the taxes I need to pay.


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## TundraGreen

joydeep.kundu said:


> I Need to go to Guadalajara for work purpose.
> 
> Q1. I have a normal life style. No drink or smoking habit. Only need to pay rent, electricity, transport, internet and foods.
> 
> I can not cook. So keeping cook or eating outside would be a good option in Guadalajara?
> 
> Age 30 and I am single.
> 
> Keeping all this in view what is the monthly expense needed?
> 
> Q2. What are the taxes I need to pay.


Have you read all of the posts in this thread. If not, try it and see if it answers your questions. 

There is no "normal" life style. Most everyone needs to pay rent, electricity, etc. What makes the difference is how much rent, electricity etc a person feels is necessary; and, this varies a great deal from one person to the next. No one else can tell you what you need. You can look at what others have posted about their needs and their life style and then guess what you might need.


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## conorkilleen

I once did the math for gits and shiggles. I could live in Mexico (Oaxacan coast) for roughly $950 a month if I was single. The beach is free, fresh fish and veggies are cheap, and rent would be SUPER cheap and is a safe area.

Here in Mexico City, if I was single, my number increased to almost double that at $1,750 per month due to the amenities, options for entertainment, and just overall living in a good area for security.


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## Isla Verde

conorkilleen said:


> Here in Mexico City, if I was single, my number increased to almost double that at $1,750 per month due to the amenities, options for entertainment, and just overall living in a good area for security.


I'm single and live in a nice area of Mexico City, though I don't know if you would consider it "a good area for security". I doubt if I spend more than $900 a month for everything. Of course, if I had a car, that would increase my monthly expenses.


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## conorkilleen

Isla Verde said:


> I'm single and live in a nice area of Mexico City, though I don't know if you would consider it "a good area for security". I doubt if I spend more than $900 a month for everything. Of course, if I had a car, that would increase my monthly expenses.


For Mexico City, and being in my mid 30's, if I was single, I would have a one bedroom apartment in Roma or Condesa. That would be the majority of my expenses (850 usd month). 

-Rent plus utilities- 850 USD
-I would have my motorcycle and not a car. ($50 USD per month on gas) Free parking everywhere.
-Food (eat in)- $400 USD per month
-Food/cocktails (eat out)-$300 USD per month
-Extras- $100-150 USD

Granted, these are just basics. Yes I do drink. Yes I do like to grill meat. Yes I do like to socialize. If I took any of those to the extreme, I would be over 2k per month.


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## Isla Verde

conorkilleen said:


> For Mexico City, and being in my mid 30's, if I was single, I would have a one bedroom apartment in Roma or Condesa. That would be the majority of my expenses (850 usd month).
> 
> -Rent plus utilities- 850 USD
> -I would have my motorcycle and not a car. ($50 USD per month on gas) Free parking everywhere.
> -Food (eat in)- $400 USD per month
> -Food/cocktails (eat out)-$300 USD per month
> -Extras- $100-150 USD
> 
> Granted, these are just basics. Yes I do drink. Yes I do like to grill meat. Yes I do like to socialize. If I took any of those to the extreme, I would be over 2k per month.


I'm lucky to have a one-bedroom (very small) apartment in an old (but ok) building, and the monthly rent comes to about $330. Utilities including internet connection, $65. For food, both in and out, I spend around $300 a month. The cost of public transportation is negligible.

These figures in US dollars are based on the current exchange rate of 13 pesos to the dollar.


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## conorkilleen

Isla Verde said:


> I'm lucky to have a one-bedroom (very small) apartment in an old (but ok) building, and the monthly rent comes to about $330. Utilities including internet connection, $65. For food, both in and out, I spend around $300 a month. The cost of public transportation is negligible.
> 
> These figures in US dollars are based on the current exchange rate of 13 pesos to the dollar.


I realize that 850 including utilities is high, but for Condesa thats a nice little 1 bedroom with a parking space. I have seen others that are closer to 500 USD per month, but not my personal taste or "newness". Think bachelor pad.


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## surfrider

I live on 2,000. usd a month but I have a car and a child and our expenses are not what I would consider normal. By myself it would be different and a lot less expensive. We live in a large house that is paid for but still we have air conditioning because of where we live and that is very expensive. 

So you see the difference between Isla expenses and myself very greatly. Many people want to know how much it would cost to live in Mexico and really the question can not be answered for anyone else other than yourself. 

For an example I could live with my son on less than 2,000. if we had a home without doors and windows and air conditioning and water heater etc. Your choices about how and where to live would be different from anyone who has written on this post. Having said all that it is a good question to ask and ask more questions if you need to, this forum will try their hardest to answer your questions with honest and caring answers - if we can.


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## Isla Verde

surfrider said:


> I live on 2,000. usd a month but I have a car and a child and our expenses are not what I would consider normal. By myself it would be different and a lot less expensive. We live in a large house that is paid for but still we have air conditioning because of where we live and that is very expensive.


Where in Mexico you choose to live is an important factor in figuring out living expenses. One thing (among many) that I like about living in Mexico City is the climate. Since it doesn't get very hot here, I have no need for AC. It can get get a bit chilly in the winter, so I do have a small space heater I use at night for a couple of months.


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## Bobbyb

To the OP: Do you have the correct "visa" for working in Mexico. You cannot just move in and go to work.. Do you have enough income to obtain that "visa"? Actually it is a residente permanente or Residente temporal. Have you done the research to find out how and where you obtain those papers? Lots to think about.


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## joydeep.kundu

TundraGreen said:


> Have you read all of the posts in this thread. If not, try it and see if it answers your questions.
> 
> There is no "normal" life style. Most everyone needs to pay rent, electricity, etc. What makes the difference is how much rent, electricity etc a person feels is necessary; and, this varies a great deal from one person to the next. No one else can tell you what you need. You can look at what others have posted about their needs and their life style and then guess what you might need.


Thanks TundraGreen for this not so helpful answer. If you do not know or can not give a helpful answers please do not waste your time.

I think my question was not very difficult to answer. If you are from Guadalajara or was there in recent past, then you should be able to answer approximately how much expense a single person needs for rent, electricity, transport, internet and foods per month i.e; share your own experience.


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## Longford

The link below may be of some help. 

Cost of Living in Guadalajara, Mexico.


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## AlanMexicali

joydeep.kundu said:


> Thanks TundraGreen for this not so helpful answer. If you do not know or can not give a helpful answers please do not waste your time.
> 
> I think my question was not very difficult to answer. If you are from Guadalajara or was there in recent past, then you should be able to answer approximately how much expense a single person needs for rent, electricity, transport, internet and foods per month i.e; share your own experience.


I have 2 divorced friends who do this. Give about 1/2 their paycheck to their ex wife and young kids which I guess is about $350.00 US per month and live on the other 1/2 of $350.00 per month. They live in unfurnished low class 5 story walkup apartments [noisy and many drug addicts around there] and pay about $70.00 to $85.00 US per month rent I would guess. They takes busses to work. The eat basic foods and don´t socialize much and when they do plan ahead. They don´t travel and do buy Christmas and birthday presents for their children.

So one can live on $350.00 US per month if you want/have to here. I hope this helps.


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## emilybcruz

mes1952 said:


> I spend $100/month on gas to/from San Diego for work



I'm really curious about this amount. Do you work part time? Full time?

I ask because I currently spend about $360 US/month on gas for my 6 cylinder SUV and have always wondered exactly how much I would save if I was driving a small car. I work 5 days a week and only drive about 20 miles a day with about 30 min-1 hr total wait time on the bridge (there AND back to MX). 

I always assumed it would be about 30% less but your budget has me wondering if I'm under-estimating...


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## TundraGreen

emilybcruz said:


> I'm really curious about this amount. Do you work part time? Full time?
> 
> I ask because I currently spend about $360 US/month on gas for my 6 cylinder SUV and have always wondered exactly how much I would save if I was driving a small car. I work 5 days a week and only drive about 20 miles a day with about 30 min-1 hr total wait time on the bridge (there AND back to MX).
> 
> I always assumed it would be about 30% less but your budget has me wondering if I'm under-estimating...


You have a different commute. It seems like a more useful exercise would be to compare the mileage (kilometerage) you are getting with the SUV to the mileage you would get with a Prius or a Leaf or whatever car you might choose instead. The official mileage figures on cars are a little optimistic but it is not hard to find real world estimates.


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## emilybcruz

TundraGreen said:


> You have a different commute. It seems like a more useful exercise would be to compare the mileage (kilometerage) you are getting with the SUV to the mileage you would get with a Prius or a Leaf or whatever car you might choose instead. The official mileage figures on cars are a little optimistic but it is not hard to find real world estimates.



Well I guess I wasn't looking for exact figures, just asking because $100 seems extremely low. Even in a Prius, even working part time. Wait times at the San Ysidro crossing (assuming that is where this person crosses) average around 2 hours on weekdays at 6 am. I cross in 15-30 max at that same time. Plus there's the 20+ mile drive from the POE to San Diego. Even in a smart car that seems like a smoking deal. That's why I am curious about whether or not he/she works full time. 

I get about 17 MPG in my Trailblazer.


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## emilybcruz

Well, now I am doing some web searching and seeing that a Prius gets 48-51 MPG! Whoa. I had no idea. For some reason I was thinking it was somewhere around 35 MPG. Clearly I haven't car-shopped in a long while... 

Considering I pay more in gasoline than I do to rent my home it may just be time to shop around.


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## JoanneR2

emilybcruz said:


> Well I guess I wasn't looking for exact figures, just asking because $100 seems extremely low. Even in a Prius, even working part time. Wait times at the San Ysidro crossing (assuming that is where this person crosses) average around 2 hours on weekdays at 6 am. I cross in 15-30 max at that same time. Plus there's the 20+ mile drive from the POE to San Diego. Even in a smart car that seems like a smoking deal. That's why I am curious about whether or not he/she works full time. I get about 17 MPG in my Trailblazer.


OK, get a mini diesel, a Prius etc. in the Uk I was getting 64mpg from my mini, including town driving. Here in DF, which is all city driving I get about 35. Ditch the SUV gas guzzler and save money and the planet at the same time....


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## joydeep.kundu

*Are MXN and Peso are same*



Longford said:


> The link below may be of some help.
> 
> = ........ ]Cost of Living in Guadalajara, Mexico.[/url]



Thanks Longford.

One thing MXN and Peso are same thing?


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## Isla Verde

joydeep.kundu said:


> Thanks Longford.
> 
> One thing MXN and Peso are same thing?


MXN = Mexican peso


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## slats

joydeep.kundu said:


> Thanks Longford.
> 
> One thing MXN and Peso are same thing?


One of the cool things about that numbeo site is that it allows you to convert the numbers into most currencies including, I believe, Indian Rupees (IDR).


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## TundraGreen

Isla Verde said:


> MXN = Mexican peso


As a point of interest, the "N" stands for new or nuevo. Until 1993 the symbol was MXP. At that time, the value of the peso changed with 1 new peso, MXN, replacing 1000 old pesos, MXP.


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## Isla Verde

TundraGreen said:


> As a point of interest, the "N" stands for new or nuevo. Until 1993 the symbol was MXP. At that time, the value of the peso changed with 1 new peso, MXN, replacing 1000 old pesos, MXP.


Thanks, Will. I'd forgotten about that.


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## emilybcruz

emilybcruz said:


> I currently spend about $360 US/month on gas for my 6 cylinder SUV and have always wondered exactly how much I would save if I was driving a small car...


I am finally getting to read this whole thread (read bits and pieces while working yesterday) and I have no idea where I got this figure from. I guess that's what I get for trying to multi-task at the office. I fill up once a week for about $45 US, so only $180 US/month. Not sure how I managed to double that figure. Now the person's $100 budget is making a whole lot more sense. 



Anyway, our monthly budget breaks down like this:

Rent $4000 MXN (2 bd+ loft, 1.5 bth)
Gasoline $2500 MXN
Car Insurance $235 MXN (although this is paid annually & we have to have a separate policy for NOTB which runs me $1300 US annually)
Cable/Internet $380 MXN (10 Mbps & Basic channels)
Cell $2275 MXN*
Water $209 MXN
Natural Gas $300 MXN (on average - varies drastically from 200-900)
Electricity $600 MXN (on average - varies drastically from 400-1000)
Food $1600 MXN (My husband's work provides 2 meals a day, we do not typically eat out unless we're being treated by a friend)
Security $200 MXN

I felt the need to add the asterisk to our cell budget because it's certainly not typical. It is actually a US company and is about $175 US/month for 2 lines, unlimited talk and text plus 4 GB of data. However, it is a bi-national plan that allows me to travel back and forth across the border, and deep into Mexico for that matter using the same phone. It has unlimited international talk and text too and also discounted cost for calling other countries internationally which is important to me because my father lives in El Salvador 75% of the time and in Haiti 25%. The data is so that we can FaceTime/Skype with our children (who are in Missouri and in Hidalgo del Parral) during the day.


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## vantexan

emilybcruz said:


> Well, now I am doing some web searching and seeing that a Prius gets 48-51 MPG! Whoa. I had no idea. For some reason I was thinking it was somewhere around 35 MPG. Clearly I haven't car-shopped in a long while...
> 
> Considering I pay more in gasoline than I do to rent my home it may just be time to shop around.


Another advantage of the Prius is while waiting in long lines to cross over it'll be on electric only. The gas engine only starts to top off the battery, then back to electric only.


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## wdbarr

You can live for about $1500, and cover rent, utilities, internet, food, eating out (modestly) a couple of times a week and transportation (bus) in the Lake Chapala area. We live on a bit more than that, about $2300, but we can be a bit extravagant. We spend about 25% more than we need to because we like the specific house and neighborhood where we live, but we could live cheaper if we needed to - the $2300 is for two of us.


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