# British citizens moving to Portugal - temporary residence requirements



## RoninStorm (Oct 29, 2019)

I intend to move to Lisbon within the next 3 to 6 months with my partner. We are both British citizens, unmarried, but have lived together for nearly 20 years. I am employed permanently and full time by a British limited company on a salary that covers both of us easily for the purposes of assessing supporting income. My partner isn't currently working.

Ideally, we want to get resident status in Portugal before Brexit completes. My reading of official SEF rules on this is that we would need to be living in Portugal for 90 days before we could even apply for resident status, and that once that threshold has passed we have 30 days to complete that application.

However, I've been told by a reliable third party that it is also possible to acquire a temporary resident status without waiting 90 days, or even waiting at all. That source has suggested that we could go straight to the town hall in Lisbon, 30€ in cash in hand (15€ for each of us) and request a temporary residence permit with only our British passports and a temporary (overnight apartment stay) address in Lisbon.

Does anyone have any guidance on whether this quick route to acquiring temporary residence status in Lisbon is realistic?

Additional to that, three further questions:

Does the document conferring temporary residence status show the address provided when it was issued?

Linked to that, is there a problem if our address in Lisbon is different to the one associated with the temporary residence document?

Finally, does that document, along with a British passport, provide sufficient information to allow entry into Portugal without a visa even after Brexit (i.e. assuming the UK is treated as a 3rd country at that point)?

Thank you in advance for any guidance you can provide!


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

EU legislation is a magic roundabout of doublespeak where it can mean anything the individual issuing officer wants it to mean but nowhere in the legislation does it say you MUST wait 3 months before registering residency but it is littered with words such as 'ask' & 'prefer' and in many cases people have been allowed to register residency within a few days of arrival & once they have done that, they can leave Portugal for up to 6 months without risking losing that residency...................... BUT (note the big BUT) some areas have indeed been telling applicants the have to wait for at least 3 months so it's a bit of a lottery.

However, I do happen to know that several applicants have been recently issued their Residencias in Lisbon & within less than a week of arrival. ....... & the money you refer to is the normal cost of the document NOT a bribe. (Just in case anyone should think otherwise) 

Before you register residency, you need to first get your NIF number from any financas office & you'll also need to get the Attestado.............. Some Camaras require the Attestado first & others second so jut go with the flow on that one & do it whichever way they want. 

you might also be asked if you have sufficient funds or be asked to prove that & that one is again a magic roundabout of doublespeak so be prepared to go with the flow on that one as well. 

If you can't do it before Brexit is complete then the most likely scenario is you'll have to apply for the Type D2 (workers) visa and that won't be a train smash as requirements are relatively easy to fulfil.


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## RoninStorm (Oct 29, 2019)

Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated!

You make reference to an "Attestado". Is that the "Atestado De Residência"? If so, is that the same as "Certificado de Registo"?

I'm wondering if I've mixed up terms when referring to residency... it's not an entirely simple process.

As an EU citizen (until Brexit), I thought that the process was as follows:


Enter Portugal, for which I need no visa
Acquire residency certificate, for which I need my passport, payment, and an address in the area I'm requesting residency
Acquire NIF, for which I need my passport, payment, and an address as above
5 years later, apply for permanent residency

My belief is that step 2 above is the part that confers temporary residence status, probably by providing me the "Certificado de Registo", and that once that's done I have temporary residence status for 5 years. Am I barking up completely the wrong tree?

On the NIF, my read to date was that it was pretty important for most of anything financial (e.g. getting a Portuguese bank account) but that it came after the temporary residence status, and in any case wasn't technically _required_ so much as too important to skip. Is that incorrect?

The thing I'm trying to assess under all this is whether it's worth the expense of travelling to Lisbon in November for a couple of days to request temporary residence based on a temporary address knowing that I intend to move to Lisbon properly in early 2020 (ideally January, but might be 1-3 months later) and will then have a longer term address, leading to a proper rental contract within a few weeks or months, but that I can do the residence requests _before_ Brexit, but may actually end up moving _after_ Brexit.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

RoninStorm said:


> Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated!
> 
> You make reference to an "Attestado". Is that the "Atestado De Residência"? If so, is that the same as "Certificado de Registo"?
> 
> ...


At the risk of sounding like the grammar police I think it important that the correct terms are used simply to avoid confusion................ Which means there is no such thing as an EU citizen but rather a citizen of an EU member state.......... That might not sound important now but it will be later........... Also not a temporary residency. 

However: Attestado & Residencia are 2 entirely different documents. Attestado means 'attest' and is the document that attests that you live where you say you do & it comes from your local Junta/Council & has to be signed by 2 residents of Portugal who are listed on the electoral roll of your parish. 

Residenca is a certificate of registration of residency & is or rather should be valid for 5 years from time of issue and of the two, the Residencia is the most important document & that comes from your local Camara. 

The NIF number is the first document you need to obtain & can have a UK address on it but the Residencia & Attestado need a Portuguese address. 

Whether it's worth coming to Portugal to get this done before Brexit is complete is you course entirely your decision but as I was taught to be cautious, (IMO) the answer is yes & FWIW, I know several people who have come all the way from South Africa to get it done before Brexit is complete........ and have then returned to SA to sell up & get back here before the 6 month time limit. (Although there are circumstances that time limit does not apply)


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## b0ll0cks-to-brexit (Oct 25, 2019)

travelling-man said:


> At the risk of sounding like the grammar police I think it important that the correct terms are used simply to avoid confusion................ Which means there is no such thing as an EU citizen but rather a citizen of an EU member state.......... That might not sound important now but it will be later........... Also not a temporary residency.


What a load of misinformed tosh! Info from brexit party leaflet?

"All citizens of an EU country are automatically citizens of the EU.
Being an EU citizen gives you some important extra rights and responsibilities."
https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/eu-citizenship_en


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## Naaling (Apr 9, 2015)

Article 20 of the Lisbon Treaty.

Article 20

(ex Article 17 TEC)

1. Citizenship of the Union is hereby established. Every person holding the nationality of a Member State shall be a citizen of the Union. Citizenship of the Union shall be additional to and not replace national citizenship.

2. Citizens of the Union shall enjoy the rights and be subject to the duties provided for in the Treaties. They shall have, inter alia:

(a)

the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States;

(b)

the right to vote and to stand as candidates in elections to the European Parliament and in municipal elections in their Member State of residence, under the same conditions as nationals of that State;

(c)

the right to enjoy, in the territory of a third country in which the Member State of which they are nationals is not represented, the protection of the diplomatic and consular authorities of any Member State on the same conditions as the nationals of that State;

(d)

the right to petition the European Parliament, to apply to the European Ombudsman, and to address the institutions and advisory bodies of the Union in any of the Treaty languages and to obtain a reply in the same language.

These rights shall be exercised in accordance with the conditions and limits defined by the Treaties and by the measures adopted thereunder.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

b0ll0cks-to-brexit said:


> What a load of misinformed tosh! Info from brexit party leaflet?
> 
> "All citizens of an EU country are automatically citizens of the EU.
> Being an EU citizen gives you some important extra rights and responsibilities."
> https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/eu-citizenship_en


/SNIP/ 

The definition of a citizen is "a person who is a member of a particular country and who has rights because of being born there or because of being given rights, or a person who lives in a particular town or city" 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/citizen 

As the EU is not a particular country but rather a loose collection of countries it is impossible for one to be an EU citizen no matter how much one wants to identify as one any more than you self identifying as a three legged, two headed, tri-sex being from the Planet Zog actually makes you one! 

Equally, there is no such thing as an EU passport but rather a passport from or of an EU member state.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Naaling said:


> Article 20 of the Lisbon Treaty.
> 
> Article 20
> 
> ...


EU legislation is indeed littered with references to 'EU citizen' & that might be because the writers of all that drivel had an eye to the future but see my previous post where I provide the definition of the word citizen.


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## Mac62 (May 13, 2015)

I will be in the same boat as the original poster and try to get registered before the Jan 31st deadline (as of today that is!) 

My questions pertains to the inconsistency of the different Camaras' on granting applications of temporary residence. 

1. What can you do if they refuse it before the deadline?

2. I want to register in the east Algarve, so does anyone know of a Camara in that region that follows the law for registration and does not change it according to the person taking the application?

Thanks in advance!


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## Naaling (Apr 9, 2015)

travelling-man said:


> Oh the irony & (perhaps) stupidity of someone who calls itself b0ll0cks-to-brexit:
> 
> But I'll ignore the ignorance & moronic insult & rather explain why I'm right & you're wrong.
> 
> ...


Did you read my post above??? That is *THE LAW*


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## Naaling (Apr 9, 2015)

Mac62 said:


> I will be in the same boat as the original poster and try to get registered before the Jan 31st deadline (as of today that is!)
> 
> My questions pertains to the inconsistency of the different Camaras' on granting applications of temporary residence.
> 
> ...


All Cameras follow the law. 
The legal obligations start 3 months. Before 3 months you are not obliged to register and the Camera is not obliged to accept your registration, although many do.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Mac62 said:


> I will be in the same boat as the original poster and try to get registered before the Jan 31st deadline (as of today that is!)
> 
> My questions pertains to the inconsistency of the different Camaras' on granting applications of temporary residence.
> 
> ...


You actually don't need to worry about it as until the GE date was announced, the SEF Brexit page was saying that any Brit in Portugal before 30th October 2019 would have until 31st Dec 2020 to register residency as a right and that date will of course now be extended into sometime in 2021 at least so assuming you're in Portugal before Brexit actually happens then you should be fine. 

https://imigrante.sef.pt/en/brexit/


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## Naaling (Apr 9, 2015)

travelling-man said:


> If you care to spend some time reading any EU legislation you'll realise that a blind man on a galloping horse should see an immense percentage of it is drivel and is so written to mean it can mean anything the reader wants it to mean.
> 
> As an example, it talks of 'sufficient funds' but does not mention what funds are sufficient and then later explains that away but saying they're not allowed to say what funds are sufficient & elsewhere in the same legislation refers to sufficient funds (in the case of Portugal) being the equivalent of the minimum wage (currently) of €700 per month + 50% for spouse + 30% per dependent.
> 
> ...


So because you don"t understand the wording or intent of one piece of legistlation, all EU legislation is drivel! 

"1. Citizenship of the Union is hereby established. Every person holding the nationality of a Member State shall be a citizen of the Union. Citizenship of the Union shall be additional to and not replace national citizenship."

This is Paragraph 1, Article 20 of the Lisbon Treaty. I'm sure the ECJ doesn't consider it drivel. 

It clearly states that EU Citizenship does exist and that it is "additional to and (does) not replace national citizenship"

/SNIP/


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Naaling said:


> So because you don"t understand the wording or intent of one piece of legistlation, all EU legislation is drivel!
> 
> "1. Citizenship of the Union is hereby established. Every person holding the nationality of a Member State shall be a citizen of the Union. Citizenship of the Union shall be additional to and not replace national citizenship."
> 
> ...


Of course it's drivel....... If only because it refers to something that doesn't & cannot exist in that the definition of a citizen is a member of a country etc & the EU is NOT a country therefore one cannot be a citizen of that non country.......... And when Brexit finally occurs it will prove the point. 

The drivel of the doublespeak EU legislation & the ridiculous arguments being presented against my simple explanations of logic & grammar remind me of the words of George Orwell in his book 1984 which were: 

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”


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## Naaling (Apr 9, 2015)

travelling-man said:


> Of course it's drivel....... If only because it refers to something that doesn't & cannot exist in that the definition of a citizen is a member of a country etc & the EU is NOT a country therefore one cannot be a citizen of that non country.......... And when Brexit finally occurs it will prove the point.
> 
> The drivel of the doublespeak EU legislation & the ridiculous arguments being presented against my simple explanations of logic & grammar remind me of the words of George Orwell in his book 1984 which were:
> 
> “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”


You have chosen to live in the EU. It is EU laws that have allowed you to do that. It is also EU laws that give you rights and freedoms that you enjoy while living here. Now you say those laws drivel! 

EU Citizenship is real, and your "simple explanations of logic & grammar" are completely wrong. 
/SNIP/


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Naaling said:


> You have chosen to live in the EU. It is EU laws that have allowed you to do that. It is also EU laws that give you rights and freedoms that you enjoy while living here. Now you say those laws drivel!
> 
> EU Citizenship is real, and your "simple explanations of logic & grammar" are completely wrong.
> You can either man-up and admit it, or continue to look like an ignorant, delusional, brexiter fool.


/SNIP/

Oh & I didn't choose to live in the EU but rather chose to live in Portugal which happens to be an EU member state. 

The EU has nothing to do with my decision but Portugal did.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Naaling said:


> All Cameras follow the law.
> The legal obligations start 3 months. Before 3 months you are not obliged to register and the Camera is not obliged to accept your registration, although many do.


Please show me where it says you are forbidden to register residency before 3 months?


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## Naaling (Apr 9, 2015)

travelling-man said:


> Please show me where it says you are forbidden to register residency before 3 months?


Please show me where I said anything was forbiden

For your information "no legal obligation" doesn't mean forbidden.


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## Mac62 (May 13, 2015)

Ok, thanks Naaling.


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## Mac62 (May 13, 2015)

travelling-man said:


> You actually don't need to worry about it as until the GE date was announced, the SEF Brexit page was saying that any Brit in Portugal before 30th October 2019 would have until 31st Dec 2020 to register residency as a right and that date will of course now be extended into sometime in 2021 at least so assuming you're in Portugal before Brexit actually happens then you should be fine.
> 
> https://imigrante.sef.pt/en/brexit/


Thanks travelling-man. I remember that from long, long ago, just wasn't sure if it still applied with all that has transpired in between. I supposed I was thinking more along the worst case scenario of a no deal, then I assume all bets are off.


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## Mac62 (May 13, 2015)

I forgot to mention, I emailed Europe Advice and asked them the same questions about whether a Camara can refuse your application or if it's illegal and what steps you can take to rectify/appeal, and about registering earlier than the 3 month suggestion. I'll share the reply when I get it, just for general edification.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

If you have trouble and/or are refused registration of residency or NHS registration etc the best thing to do is contact the UK Embassy via their Facebook page as they have dedicated teams working on both of those issues. 

As for the legislation, it's all written in EU Doublespeak that can be interpreted any way the issuing officer wants & whilst some will issue within a day or two & with a hotel address, others are a lot less co-operative. 

https://www.facebook.com/BritsInPortugal/


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## Mac62 (May 13, 2015)

Ok, thanks again travelling-man. As much as I hate it, I suppose I'll have to open a bloody Facebook account.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Mac62 said:


> Ok, thanks again travelling-man. As much as I hate it, I suppose I'll have to open a bloody Facebook account.


The UK Embassy in general & their FB team in particular are doing an absolutely magnificent job of supporting their British immigrant citizens at what must be an incredibly difficult time for them. 

Every time they sort out a policy or announcement etc the whole Brexit situation changes so they must have to go back to square one & start again! 

I reckon they all deserve medals! 

The good news is, if you join some of the better FB immigrant groups then their admins will post all the Embassy updates as soon as they're published.

PM me if you need guidance on the better groups.


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## Mac62 (May 13, 2015)

Ok, cheers travelling-man.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

:closed_2:


Several infractions are about to be handed out & the thread is closed since you seem to find it impossible to discusss this without stooping to personal insults - unless the local mod choses to open it again.


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