# No FBAR concerns from expats in Italy?



## Cara123 (Mar 13, 2013)

Within the last 10 years of living in Italy (married to an italian spouse who has no green card), I didn't have the need to file taxes since I didn't take on a job in this country. The one exception was a short-term job in 2005 back in the USA, for which I dutifully filed the following year.

I only recently learned about FBAR and my question is this: if I haven't filed because I don't earn income, do I still need to submit an FBAR? My husband opened a savings/checking account at a local bank with both of our names when we got married. It doesn't earn interest, but as it exceeds the $10,000 threshhold, it meets the reporting criteria. This account has no connection to my checking account in the states, and I do not make any transfers between the two accounts.

That said, if I do need to do an FBAR, can I simply just send one in this year (for 2012) or should I go back to when the account was opened in 2003? I realize that this is just a report that recently made a big splash on the expat tax scene. I am just surprised that I didn't find any posts from someone in my position, as there must be other unemployed (by choice) american housewives in Italy that share atleast one joint account with their italian husbands.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

The FBAR requirement is completely separate from the requirement to file US income taxes. If you are a joint holder of an account that exceeds $10,000 or even if the total of your foreign (i.e. non-US) accounts adds up to $10,000 or more, you are supposed to file form TD 90-22.1, listing the accounts you have an ownership interest in, or signature authority over, along with the high balance for the year. 

Officially, the requirement is to back file for 6 years - however, in your case, I'd just file the form for 2012 and then going forward. For a small account held in joint name with your NRA spouse they really aren't going to dig much further into the situation. (BTW, you do not have to give them your spouse's name nor SSN/ITIN - just indicate for the joint holder "NRA spouse" and be done with it. It may mean you have to file by mail, but it's simpler than going through the rigamarole to get hubby an ITIN when he really doesn't "need" one.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## Cara123 (Mar 13, 2013)

Thanks Bevdeforges's  I'll send one out way before the due date and I'll also let several others know about it. I'm thinking that there has to be a lot of stay-at-home expat wives (or husbands) who aren't even aware of this.


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## Cara123 (Mar 13, 2013)

BBCWatcher I very much appreciate your input on this matter. In my situation, my husband is an italian national, does not have a green card, so he has none of those numbers that they ask for. Whether I should go through the process of getting him one is debatable as we don't see ourselves relocating to the US (for reasons of work or any matter) in the future.

If I were to do the 6 years (2007-2012 filed one per envelope), should I include a cover letter explaining why I hadn't reported for the first 5 years? This would seem a cut-and-dry question being that I didn't even know about this FBAR, but if there's someone else out there in my exact situation, they might want to know.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

If you do file the back FBAR forms, it's a good idea to include a note explaining that you just learned of the requirement and that these are your 6 years of back filings. (The question is also open as to whether you need to file them one per envelope or all together.)

I wouldn't bother to get my husband an ITIN if I were you. Actually I'm in the same situation - NRA husband, just no joint accounts, and I haven't bothered with an ITIN for him. Have a friend in Germany who was married to a German tax office official and he most definitely was not willing to have his wife get him an ITIN for the US. She filed for many years just indicating NRA for her husband's "taxpayer i.d. number" and no problems whatsoever. (He died a few years back, so she has never had the issue of filing FBARs with him.)
Cheers,
Bev


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## Cara123 (Mar 13, 2013)

Bev, thanks again for being an extreme help in this matter. I've started contacting american expats that I know of who might benefit from this information. A shame that it took me *this long* to join an expat forum as I've been coming across some very interesting threads. I've always used expat blogs (personal ones) to keep up with life in Europe and my country of residence, but the discussions I've found here are engaging in a different way.

I'll file the 6 reports and send them all at one go with cover letter of explanation. I suspect that once they see the numbers, they'll wonder why I was even worried at all.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

I agree that if you only have one jointly held account to report, you have very little need to fear any "repercussions" from the late filings - and probably just as well to "do the right thing" and get the matter off your conscience.

There has been lots of scare mongering in the press about the dire consequences of neglecting these FBAR and FATCA forms. But sometimes the IRS doesn't seem to understand that those of us who live overseas don't see what goes on in the US press. Frankly, other than here on the Expat Forum, I've seen nothing about it (and I have a subscription to the NY Times, even, though I confess I hardly read each issue cover to cover). 

Those who are members of certain US expat associations get regular updates on tax and other matters concerning US citizens living overseas, but other than that, there are very few effective ways to inform US citizens living overseas of these kinds of changes. Then there is also the issue of just what resources the IRS has to "enforce" these types of laws. They seem to be trying to go through the international banks to gain access to the accounts of known US citizens - but if you bank with a small, national or regional bank, you have to wonder how cooperative the bank is going to be to IRS field examiners, should they find their way to its door.
Cheers,
Bev


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