# what it like for brits over 60 trying to sell in spain to return to the UK?



## flattoswap (Sep 3, 2012)

Hi,

I know most of Europe currently has problems in the housing markets but i wondered how brit expats over 60 are finding selling their spanish properties in order to return to the UK - just as difficult as everyone else?

If so can anyone suggest the best way of getting in touch with brits over 60 trying to sell property in Spain in order to return to the UK?

Thanks


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Just out of interest...why should being over sixty be significant?

Surely age is irrelevant when selling a property anywhere?

Just curious


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## flattoswap (Sep 3, 2012)

No doubt this post will get pulled for advertising but I am wanting to exchange my 2 bedroom retirement property for a Spanish property and my property is only available to residents over 60 years of age - thats the only reason.

Ive seen a few programmes here in the UK explaining that medical care for over 60's in Spain can be an issue and its difficult to get NHS treatment once youve been out of the UK for a lengthy period of time, unless you can show strong ties.....how true that is i dont know but hopefully that answers youre question


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

flattoswap said:


> No doubt this post will get pulled for advertising but I am wanting to exchange my 2 bedroom retirement property for a Spanish property and my property is only available to residents over 60 years of age - thats the only reason.
> 
> Ive seen a few programmes here in the UK explaining that medical care for over 60's in Spain can be an issue and its difficult to get NHS treatment once youve been out of the UK for a lengthy period of time, unless you can show strong ties.....how true that is i dont know but hopefully that answers youre question


Now all is clear - or partly so.

But persons qualifying for the Statutory Retirement Pension are entitled to receive free healthcare in Spain once they have acquired the necessary documents.
So there should be no problem if you are eligible - 'strong ties' have nothing to do with it,afaik.

Once you are permanently resident in Spain you are no longer entitled to use the NHS. But if you return to the UK to take up permanent residence then you would be entitled to NHS care.

My experience of the Spanish health system has been very positive - that goes for GP visits and hospital appointments too. But I have 'back-up' from a private health care provider which costs me and partner under 40 euros a month. That covers free doctors' home visits, ambulance to hospital and GP consultations.
But I'm happy with the Regional Health Service..


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## flattoswap (Sep 3, 2012)

Thats interesting - there have been documentaries here in the UK saying pensioners have had problems with healthcare in Spain and have then been unable to return to the UK to get the care they need - perhaps its more to do with those who dont want to take up permanent residence in Spain, or just that the documentary was inaccurate - it wouldnt be the first time!

I guess im interested to know how difficult people are finding it to relocate back to the UK, and if so how i would go about finding people who may be interested in exchanging properties - do you have any advice on that?....I was in Peniscola recently and went to some agents but they didnt seem to be interested as they thought they wouldnt get any comission if there wasnt a sale taking place!


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## flattoswap (Sep 3, 2012)

And to add......the documentaries also said brit's over 60 are suffering badly from their pensions due to the changes in exchange rates which has prompted alot of them to try and return home but theyve not been able to.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

flattoswap said:


> And to add......the documentaries also said brit's over 60 are suffering badly from their pensions due to the changes in exchange rates which has prompted alot of them to try and return home but theyve not been able to.


Some are, some aren't. It depends entirely on your retirement income. 
It's misleading to portray all British immigrants here as living lives of hardship and poverty. I'm sure there are more than a few who are finding it hard to make ends meet but at the risk of sounding harsh I agree with the poster who wrote that anyone planning to move abroad should be aware of fluctuations in exchange rates and plan accordingly.

I do know that there are many people who would like to return to the Uk, not just because they're hard up but for a variety of reasons. Some are younger than sixty. They are stuck with houses they can't sell and in some cases with negative equity and unlike the US you can't just drop off the keys and leave: your debt will follow you.

All that is very sad but most British immigrants I know are very happy here and have no plans to go back to the UK. I certainly haven't.

It's the same in Spain as in the UK or anywhere....if you're short of money, life won't be good. 
I can't understand why a returning British immigrant of retirement age would be refused health care in the UK...


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## brocher (Mar 21, 2011)

flattoswap said:


> No doubt this post will get pulled for advertising but I am wanting to exchange my 2 bedroom retirement property for a Spanish property and my property is only available to residents over 60 years of age - thats the only reason.
> 
> Ive seen a few programmes here in the UK explaining that medical care for over 60's in Spain can be an issue and its difficult to get NHS treatment once youve been out of the UK for a lengthy period of time, unless you can show strong ties.....how true that is i dont know but hopefully that answers youre question



Do you own your house or is it owned by a Hsing Association or similar? If so, I'm guessing their rules might not allow you to swap with someone from outside the UK. Even if they allow "swaps" I would assume that would be with others already in social housing in the UK??


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

flattoswap said:


> And to add......the documentaries also said brit's over 60 are suffering badly from their pensions due to the changes in exchange rates which has prompted alot of them to try and return home but theyve not been able to.


Obviously the documentaries have been inaccurate.

I am over 60 Boss Lady is under 60, I get free Spanish health care and because she is my dependant Boss Lady gets the same privilege, the British N.H.S. pay the Spanish an annual lump sum per person for this privilege.

Regarding the exchange rates, they are more in our favour now than they have been for years,

Also you refer to people returning "home" Here is home on the sunny island of El Hierro.

The property market is dead, no buyers no sellers, I have my eye on a house that is on the market, but I cannot purchase until I sell an apartment.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Most of the over 60s I know round here would like to sell up and return to the UK, but nobody is buying property. Some have actually left their Spanish homes empty and gone back.

The primary reason isn't healthcare, which is fine provided you do the paperwork properly, but missing their families and grandchildren.


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

I am 64. My husband is 75. We both have health problems and, although we are covered by the Spanish health care system, we are struggling to get the treatment we need. The Spanish health system does not seem to recognise dementia or other age related conditions. They just keep saying "It happens when you get old". They expect you to have family to take care of you. We have no family support.

We cannot sell our house. We are struggling to pay our bills. There is no support for people like us in Spain.

We would love to return to the UK and live in sheltered housing. 

Unless you have family support here in Spain you are thrown on the scrap heap when things get tough. We have no help without paying about €10 an hour for home helps.


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## passiflora (Jun 28, 2012)

You might just have to "cut and run " then. Arrive homeless and poverty struck in the Uk and they will have to care for you. Know people here who have done that, just abandoned their home here that they couldn't sell and turned up in Bournemouth where the council gave them a nice flat,furniture etc plus all the health care and care they need.

Works for some it seems.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

passiflora said:


> You might just have to "cut and run " then. Arrive homeless and poverty struck in the Uk and they will have to care for you. Know people here who have done that, just abandoned their home here that they couldn't sell and turned up in Bournemouth where the council gave them a nice flat,furniture etc plus all the health care and care they need.
> 
> Works for some it seems.


You cannot just 'cut and run'. If you have a Spanish mortgage on your property the debt will follow you to the UK and will be easy to collect via the European Payment Order.


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

passiflora said:


> You might just have to "cut and run " then. Arrive homeless and poverty struck in the Uk and they will have to care for you. Know people here who have done that, just abandoned their home here that they couldn't sell and turned up in Bournemouth where the council gave them a nice flat,furniture etc plus all the health care and care they need.
> 
> Works for some it seems.


I don't know what age you are. I do not know your fitness or health levels.

I can just imagine my husband (75 years old and in very poor health) and myself (64 years old and cannot walk unassisted) getting on a flight and arriving in the UK with nowhere to live. Even if it is true that the council will find us something where do we sleep until it is sorted? On a park bench?

I was involved in local government before I left the UK and I know from experience it would take a while to convince them we needed help. If they know we have a property in Spain they are not likely to give us somewhere to live free.

How do we pay for our flights? How does my husband get the regular medical care he needs until we are accepted back into the NHS?

I was accused in another thread of not planning enough when we decided to move to Spain. What you are suggesting would be even worse and would be totally irresponsible.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Cut and run would seem to increase potential problems further, and not really a good course of action.

One of the main problems around here is people asking silly prices for their houses, wheras I have seen houses at more realistic prices sell. It's not like the UK here, you cant spend thousands of pounds on improvements and extensions and expect it to raise the value of your property. It just doesn't happen. So, house on the market nearby for €275k is getting no interest, yet one in the same road and similar sold for €175k including furniture and a car.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Depends how long you have been out of the UK and possibly your age. We had a 'young' patient in his fifties who had terminal cancer and needed palliative care which was not available to him in Spain so he came back to the UK (after over twenty years in Spain) and the NHS provided the care but initially wanted him to pay. He died with us and the NHS did not pursue payment from his estate.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

As someone who has been closely involved with local authority housing as both Councillor sitting on a Housing Committee and Director of a Housing Association I am intrigued and surprised to learn that it is apparently so easy to return to the UK and be allocated social housing and furniture. 
Few local authorities in the UK are housing providers. Their role is a strategic one and although they are by law responsible for the homeless, they will in most cases refer to B&B accommodation or 'half-way' housing until a social housing provider can come up with a suitable flat or house.
I am especially surprised that it is so easy to present as homeless in Bournemouth, a place I know reasonably well and where there are many pressures on social housing.
Most local authorities stopped building social housing in the MT era and the number declined even further under the Blair Government.
And that is the chief reason why tenants are occupying properties at exorbitant rents which are paid for ultimately by the taxpayer and which go into the pockets of landlords.
Much more sensible to build social housing at affordable rents, surely...


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## passiflora (Jun 28, 2012)

DunWorkin said:


> I don't know what age you are. I do not know your fitness or health levels.
> 
> I can just imagine my husband (75 years old and in very poor health) and myself (64 years old and cannot walk unassisted) getting on a flight and arriving in the UK with nowhere to live. Even if it is true that the council will find us something where do we sleep until it is sorted? On a park bench?
> 
> ...


You, of course know your circumstances,state of health and finances etc better than anyone---------I only mentioned it because it's an option that has worked for some and desperate times can call for desperate measures.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

The days of arriving in the UK and getting a home are gone, no homes left to give, rent is capped etc. 

I did voluntary work with age concern and our council has a shrinking stock of aging property and now work with housing associations. We had many elderly patients end up staying months on the ward because their homes were not 'safe' and there was no money for the modifications needed, so for the sake of say £5000 spent on a home its cost the NHS £30,000 providing them with care and taking up a much needed bed.


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## flattoswap (Sep 3, 2012)

Wow - there seem to be a lot of different views on this topic. Im not entirely convinced that the turn up in the UK and you'll get a house and furniture would work if you still have property in Spain as im pretty sure as others have said everything is based around your assetts etc.

Either way, it seems as though the documentaries ive seen have not been accurate - which isnt that surprising.

To answer brochers question - it is a privately owned appartment so there is no restriction on how i choose to get rid of it. The problem I have is finding someone in Spain who would be interested in such a proposal whilst I am in the UK. As i said, I tried a few agents when i was last in Spain who were not interested, I also went to the only English owned bar i knew of and havnt had any luck from people who go there either.

Dunworkin - where abouts in Spain are you based?


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

flattoswap said:


> Wow - there seem to be a lot of different views on this topic. Im not entirely convinced that the turn up in the UK and you'll get a house and furniture would work if you still have property in Spain as im pretty sure as others have said everything is based around your assetts etc.
> 
> Either way, it seems as though the documentaries ive seen have not been accurate - which isnt that surprising.
> 
> ...


We are between El Campello and Villajoyosa on the coast on the Costa Blanca.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

flattoswap said:


> Wow - there seem to be a lot of different views on this topic. Im not entirely convinced that the* turn up in the UK and you'll get a house and furniture would work if you still have property in Spain as im pretty sure as others have said everything is based around your assetts etc*.
> 
> Either way, it seems as though the documentaries ive seen have not been accurate - which isnt that surprising.
> 
> ...


You really must understand the housing shortage regardless of your assets, there are no spare houses, you *might* get put in bed and breakfast and it will be in the cheapest available.


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## javierch (Aug 2, 2012)

For the couple that wants to return to the UK. While council housing is very difficult to get Sheltered housing is not as difficult to get and I would say is fairly easy to get a place once you are on the list but you need to live somewhere to register I suppose ,otherwise they will put you in temporary accomodation for a few weeks until all the paper work is sorted ...and that would be upsetting for your husband .

First you need to check you are getting everything you are entitle to in Spain though as people without family are prioritised and entitle to help at home,meals on wheels,equipment,day centres,residential care and so on ,but you need to qualify for permanent residency,5 years of residency and also you need to have /request el certificado de minusvalia ...as that certificates gives access to all social care services .. 
I dont know if pensioners from the uk only have access to healthcare or also to social care services ...they are different things I suppose and if you dont have access to social care help you are stuck in another country with dementia but care in spain is fair to be realistic ,at least if you are in the hospital ,care home you are clean,fed,given drink,and safe ...you cant say the same of the uk unfortunally that not only they sell your home but treat you badly ..in the uk if you buy a sheltered home you may find they want to sell it to pay for care later on...so the best bet is search a good area,save enough to pay the rent,rent for 6 months or so ,or rent spanish place and rent a place in the uk with that money and get into the sheltered housing list,ring social services,g.p will refer to O.T for equipment,etc and a weight will be lifted of your shoulder as you will know what to do .

Dementia care in the Uk is poor though ,social services cuts are 25 per cent or more so you need to search things and areas well,some care homes are awful and hospital are just as bad .Maybe Scotland is better that the south of England but I dont know for sure ... so it is a question of searching,sometimes you get a better service in the UK that in Spaib not because the service is better but because you know where to ask and How to ask and when to ask and you can understand the system and the language ....


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

javierch said:


> For the couple that wants to return to the UK. While council housing is very difficult to get *Sheltered housing is not as difficult to get and I would say is fairly easy to get a place once you are on the list* but you need to live somewhere to register I suppose ,otherwise they will put you in temporary accomodation for a few weeks until all the paper work is sorted ...and that would be upsetting for your husband .
> 
> First you need to check you are getting everything you are entitle to in Spain though as people without family are prioritised and entitle to help at home,meals on wheels,equipment,day centres,residential care and so on ,but you need to qualify for permanent residency,5 years of residency and also you need to have /request el certificado de minusvalia ...as that certificates gives access to all social care services ..
> I dont know if pensioners from the uk only have access to healthcare or also to social care services ...they are different things I suppose and if you dont have access to social care help you are stuck in another country with dementia but care in spain is fair to be realistic ,at least if you are in the hospital ,care home you are clean,fed,given drink,and safe ...*you cant say the same of the uk unfortunally that not only they sell your home but treat you badly* ..in the uk if you buy a sheltered home you may find they want to sell it to pay for care later on...so the best bet is search a good area,save enough to pay the rent,rent for 6 months or so ,or rent spanish place and rent a place in the uk with that money and get into the sheltered housing list,ring social services,g.p will refer to O.T for equipment,etc and a weight will be lifted of your shoulder as you will know what to do .
> ...


You are talking a load of *()_^&* you really do need to know what your on about before spouting out rubbish like that.

I need to go from here for a day or two before I say something that will get me banned


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## javierch (Aug 2, 2012)

With sheltered housing you dont need to be in band A to get a place and many places used to go after only a few months on the list ,because the medical needs they will go in band A or B and not C or D .I will try to check an average of how long in some of the sheltered properties in the south east for dates but it isnt the typical years like in normal council housing though,last time I had a look it was pretty fast .I will try to find examples as they give the band ,date of registration in the council list,date of renting the property .

I didn't say all of the care as some care homes are very good ,some are fair but quite a few are bad,not treating people badly intentially but neglect and in hospitals the same.I have seen it personally unfortunaly and a family member had a massive stroke in a care home for people with dementia and they didnt even call an ambulance ,neither was fed properly,etc ,and that was after a first not so good care home ...only the last one was really good . I saw it in the hospital too as nurses were ignoring the people and anyway It is in the news often enough .The government is doing things to improve things and lots of reports have come through about the situation lately .hopefully it means it will happen less and less but WHat was the last government report about the care homes for people with learning difficulties talking about ???Why is the government creating a website where people can rate care homes ??
I have a kid with severe disabilities ,I have some similar disabilities but less severe as yet and we have been waiting 6 years for adaptations actually ,we have to pay for most of the respite because you wait and wait for 2 years and well when you need it you have to pay for it as they can not even find anyone ... and so on and now we have to pay for special school transport or send him to an unsuitable school instead ..so the uk is also suffering the effects of the crisis and sometimes the language barrier is the issue more that anything else but I agree that they will be better in the UK as they will know how to work the system out and get help anyway. People is caring in the UK ,I didnt mean they are not but lots of older people is not getting enough help at the moment and it is a big postcode lottery issue that causes poor care in some areas and dementia patients are particularly vulnerable so they suffer . I'm not making anything up so to speak ...some councils have made big ,big cuts to social care as well .


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## javierch (Aug 2, 2012)

Care in Crisis 2012 report | Campaigns | Age UK
The Patients Association Launches Damming Report into Poor Care in England's Hospitals - News - West Midlands QI
http://www.wmqi.westmidlands.nhs.uk...ve Been Listening, Have You Been Learning.pdf
Video: Dementia care quality report 'is shocking' - Telegraph
Exclusive: Crisis in care of elderly as £1bn cuts bite - Health News - Health & Families - The Independent
This last one link about the recent news about care homes of people with learning difficulties Half of care homes fail to meet standards, warns watchdog | Society | guardian.co.uk

Now things are changing or are going to change but well If you look properly and have a good check it would be ok but THEY NEED TO CHECK VERY WELL ,if possible look everywhere and several times at different times of the day,etc AS IT IS A POSTCODE LOTTERY and it is true !!!!


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## Mexberry (Dec 19, 2011)

Dunworkin seems to be caught between a rock and a hard place. Whatever direction she and her hubby decide to move, there will be hardships. In the past I have contacted my MP by letter, explained the problem and have at least been directed to the department, even a manager's name who could assist me. Although you might not care for their politics , most of them do care about the welfare of their constituents and they have a staff who are knowledgable about the options locally for the care of those in your situation. The UK like many other countries are strapped for cash, so there is no fat left in any social service.
Mexberry

Sent from my iPad using ExpatForum


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

flattoswap said:


> Wow - there seem to be a lot of different views on this topic. *Im not entirely convinced that the turn up in the UK and you'll get a house and furniture would work if you still have property in Spain *as im pretty sure as others have said everything is based around your assetts etc.
> 
> ?


And why should it? You have a property in Spain...why should the British taxpayer -which includes me and most other posters here - be expected to provide a home and other benefits for you......

Maybe I have misunderstood you but if it is the case that 1) you have a property in Spain which you can't sell and 2) that you wish to return to the UK regardless but 3) you will need to be given a house/flat and possibly benefits then.....you have imo no choice other than to continue living in Spain until your property is sold.

We make choices in our lives, the consequences of which don't always turn out as we might wish. Sometimes this is due to bad planning or none, sometimes it's because of factors beyond our control.

Whatever may be the case, I can see no reason why a person with unsaleable property in Spain should expect to receive social housing on arrival in the UK.
If such a person failed to report their true circumstances to the local authority in the UK it would be fraud and a rather mean-spirited despicable one imo when so many are in genuine need of housing already in the UK.

We just have to live with our choices.


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> And why should it? You have a property in Spain...why should the British taxpayer -which includes me and most other posters here - be expected to provide a home and other benefits for you......
> 
> Maybe I have misunderstood you but if it is the case that 1) you have a property in Spain which you can't sell and 2) that you wish to return to the UK regardless but 3) you will need to be given a house/flat and possibly benefits then.....you have imo no choice other than to continue living in Spain until your property is sold.
> 
> ...



If you re-read my posts you will see that I have not suggested we go to the UK and receive 'social housing'. It is others who have posted to suggest that is what we should do.

If we do manage to sell our house here we will use the money to rent in the UK in 'sheltered housing'

I also served as a Councillor in the UK on the Housing and Social Services Committee and also as leader of the opposition for many years so I am also aware of the situation.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Im my area, Council/social sheltered housing has a huge waiting list and it matters not about income, savings or circumstance, in fact round here its who you know and how many years you've been waiting which counts. However, you can buy private flats in sheltered housing accomodation and from what I know, sheltered housing simply means theres a warden on the premises. 

But if you arrive in the UK with nothing, you wouldnt have a choice in where you live and what about personal effects, furniture, friends....????

Theres no point in anyone getting stroppy about it on here is there!

Jo xxx


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

DunWorkin said:


> If you re-read my posts you will see that I have not suggested we go to the UK and receive 'social housing'. It is others who have posted to suggest that is what we should do.
> 
> If we do manage to sell our house here we will use the money to rent in the UK in 'sheltered housing'
> 
> I also served as a Councillor in the UK on the Housing and Social Services Committee and also as leader of the opposition for many years so I am also aware of the situation.


I wasn't referring to you...my post was directed at the OP.


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## DunWorkin (Sep 2, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> I wasn't referring to you...my post was directed at the OP.


Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were referring to me


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

javierch said:


> Care in Crisis 2012 report | Campaigns | Age UK
> The Patients Association Launches Damming Report into Poor Care in England's Hospitals - News - West Midlands QI
> http://www.wmqi.westmidlands.nhs.uk...ve Been Listening, Have You Been Learning.pdf
> Video: Dementia care quality report 'is shocking' - Telegraph
> ...


Sadly, most of that is true.
Whilst quality of care in any establishment will depend on the professionalism and commitment of the health care workers employed, it seems that management at all levels leaves much to be desired.
I am more and more convinced that health care *provision* should be taken out of the direct involvement of the state and an insurance-based model introduced in stead. Of course the state has a vital role to play in ensuring a level playing field -which we certainly haven't got in the UK and I doubt if it exists in Spain - and in setting the highest service level provision in every aspect of health care. At the end of the day, WHO delivers the service is less important to the non-ideologue of left or right than the QUALITY of what is delivered.
My partner's mother died recently in a charity-funded hospice. I asked her just a minute ago what she thought of the quality of care her mother had received in the Glasgow NHS hospital which treated her. After some thought she said it was not satisfactory: her mother did not get the attention she required. Her impression of the nursing staff was that they did not seem very caring - whether due to pressure of work or sloppy attitude she couldn't say.
In contrast the care at the independent charity-funded hospice was superb....and available to all as it was entirely free of charge.


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## flattoswap (Sep 3, 2012)

I didnt mean to start a debate on social care in the UK, although i can see it is relevant.

I think as I saw with the information given in the UK about expats not being able to return to the UK, the information some people have here isnt 100% correct for the UK, to say the least!

The appartment I have is a private mccarthy & stone appartment so i dont think the risk of being forced to sell or having poor care is such a factor, or its certainly not been in the time my mother was in mccarthy & stone housing or while i have been!

From the sounds of things it will be very difficult for me to find someone in Spain willing to exchange properties - are there any suggestions of places I could use to try to progress my search?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

flattoswap said:


> I didnt mean to start a debate on social care in the UK, although i can see it is relevant.
> 
> I think as I saw with the information given in the UK about expats not being able to return to the UK, the information some people have here isnt 100% correct for the UK, to say the least!
> 
> ...


Forgive my confusion.....but could I ask you to clarify the situation?

Are you a) looking for someone in the UK to swap their house/flat with your house/flat in Spain, this McCarthy and Stone property?
or b) is the flat/house you wish to swap in the UK?

Apologies if I'm the only confused poster here.... A bit slow on the uptake this morning, woken up by the dog just after 4.00 a.m.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Forgive my confusion.....but could I ask you to clarify the situation?
> 
> Are you a) looking for someone in the UK to swap their house/flat with your house/flat in Spain, this McCarthy and Stone property?
> or b) is the flat/house you wish to swap in the UK?
> ...


he's hoping that this thread will attract someone who will swap their house in Spain for his flat in the UK 

without him actually advertising as a Premium Member


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> he's hoping that this thread will attract someone who will swap their house in Spain for his flat in the UK
> 
> without him actually advertising as a Premium Member


It wasn't made very clear,then...At least,not to me.
I assumed s/he wanted to sell a property in Spain so s/he could return to the UK.....


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

flattoswap said:


> I didnt mean to start a debate on social care in the UK, although i can see it is relevant.
> 
> I think as I saw with the information given in the UK about expats not being able to return to the UK, the information some people have here isnt 100% correct for the UK, to say the least!
> 
> ...


I was just trying to think of the practicalities of you swapping with someone in Spain. Although there is recession everywhere some places are no doubt worse hit than others.

If you did a straight swap with someone in Spain a property you have here for example if it was a nice two bedroomed flat might be worth say £250,000 and the comperable property in Spain may only be worth £125,000. Would you expect the other person to pay the difference ? or would you be prepared to be out of pocket to such an extent.

It all seems fraught with problems to me. Or would you just do a kind of 'house swap' for a couple of years to see how it went ? Say they then decided they didn't want to come back to Spain, but you also didn't want to be in Spain long term, you could end up having a bit of a nightmare.

Would it not be easier just to rent out your current place for a couple of years and see how you go in Spain ? There are plently of decent rental management agencys in the UK even though they will charge a % it is worth it and you may never have to deal with your tenants. I wouldn't advise ever letting to friends or family as that is too fraught with issues if it goes wrong. You need to do it through a third party professional.

I do know someone who swaped a two bed cottage in the UK for a 3 bed semi in the UK, plus a bit of extra cash, and even that involved solicitors contracts etc and that was all done in one language, so everyone understood what was taking place.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Tilley said:


> I was just trying to think of the practicalities of you swapping with someone in Spain. Although there is recession everywhere some places are no doubt worse hit than others.
> 
> If you did a straight swap with someone in Spain a property you have here for example if it was a nice two bedroomed flat might be worth say £250,000 and the comperable property in Spain may only be worth £125,000. Would you expect the other person to pay the difference ? or would you be prepared to be out of pocket to such an extent.
> 
> ...


you're right

even if you're 'swapping' you are still essentially buying & selling - I don't see any real advantages to this


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## The Adviser (Dec 28, 2012)

Hi everybody, Ive only just joined this forum and forgive me if Im missing something here, but after reading through the posts, is it not possible for you Dunworking and you flattoswop to think about a swap?

Alternatively, perhaps in checking through the internet to find retirement housing/sheltered housing in Spain/UK and finding developments of this kind, perhaps you could contact the owners to see if there is anybody living on their developments in the same boat and willing to consider the options, or at least maybe a part exchange deal!.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

Tilley said:


> I was just trying to think of the practicalities of you swapping with someone in Spain. Although there is recession everywhere some places are no doubt worse hit than others.
> 
> *If you did a straight swap with someone in Spain a property you have here for example if it was a nice two bedroomed flat might be worth say £250,000 and the comperable property in Spain may only be worth £125,000. Would you expect the other person to pay the difference ? or would you be prepared to be out of pocket to such an extent.
> *
> ...


If I remember correctly, its not that simple, and I think when it comes down to it, it is the Spanish authorities that would be deciding the value of the Spanish house.


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## ezza (Apr 13, 2009)

flattoswap said:


> Thats interesting - there have been documentaries here in the UK saying pensioners have had problems with healthcare in Spain and have then been unable to return to the UK to get the care they need - perhaps its more to do with those who dont want to take up permanent residence in Spain, or just that the documentary was inaccurate - it wouldnt be the first time!
> 
> I guess im interested to know how difficult people are finding it to relocate back to the UK, and if so how i would go about finding people who may be interested in exchanging properties - do you have any advice on that?....I was in Peniscola recently and went to some agents but they didnt seem to be interested as they thought they wouldnt get any comission if there wasnt a sale taking place!


Hi flattoswap I have sent you a pm with details of a swap.


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## stevelin (Apr 25, 2009)

I expect this will start another discussion but do people realise they can now claim Attendance Allowance from the UK whilst living in Spain if they receive a state pension. This may help with paying for care here whilst trying to sell there property in order to return to the UK or even allow them to remain here


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## The Adviser (Dec 28, 2012)

OOh now this is something I would like to learn about more. I have been visiting Spain on and off for a number of years now and in the last 2 years have had to have 2 operations here, one for a spinal hernia removal, and last November for bowl cancer after having been diagnosed here and after being diagnosed in UK as having piles. I have the full backing of the UK government for the operations and after care through the s2 form arrangement.

I am in so much pain with my ongoing back problems and can hardly walk because I have sciatica which incidentally, the hernia operation 2 years ago was supposed to have got rid of, and am restricted in some ways due to the after effects of the cancer, I actually have applied for AA but have been told that unless I have to have more or less 24hr care due to paralysis or similar, or have lost both legs say, there is no chance. The new rules that have come into force now make it very difficult for one to get disability benefit or AA.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

flattoswap said:


> I didnt mean to start a debate on social care in the UK, although i can see it is relevant.
> 
> I think as I saw with the information given in the UK about expats not being able to return to the UK, the information some people have here isnt 100% correct for the UK, to say the least!
> 
> ...


Yes there are sites that cater for house swaps & we have often considered this ourselves as it would bypass the selling issue, or to be more correct the no buyers issue.
I do not though know what liability's you would incur here in Spain from the tax man ?, still I fancy a good Spanish lawyer would know the best route to take.

Would be interesting to find just what is entailed as this would give a lot of owners the flexibility to carry on moving as the mood takes, well at least those of us who like to move on after a few years (yes we should have rented of course)


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## stevelin (Apr 25, 2009)

AA or DLA for under 65 can now be claimed if living in an EU country> You need to check out web sites re eligibility criteria etc and the best way to word the forms if you think you may be eligible then claim and appeal if its declined. !!


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## The Adviser (Dec 28, 2012)

Perhaps you would be good enough to point out these web sites as you seem so well informed!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

The Adviser said:


> Perhaps you would be good enough to point out these web sites as you seem so well informed!


UKinSpain - the consulate website


it's in our FAQs thread


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## stevelin (Apr 25, 2009)

The Disability Law Service

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...disabled/documents/digitalasset/dg_181620.pdf

These helped us !


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## The Adviser (Dec 28, 2012)

stevelin said:


> The Disability Law Service
> 
> http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...disabled/documents/digitalasset/dg_181620.pdf
> 
> These helped us !


I thank you for your help regarding the links sent, but as I am 65, I am not entitled to DLA. I was looking more for help with claiming AA over here.


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## stevelin (Apr 25, 2009)

try this one 
Attendance allowance (AA) - Disability Rights UK Factsheet F22
the information on DLA show how to think about answering the questions as does this link. it helps to know what they are looking for when completing the form


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2013)

I want to thank everyone for such a realistic, fact based thread. I do not take lightly the difficulties of others and I hope you all well!
Bom ano novo!


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## Tilley (Jun 10, 2012)

Stravinsky said:


> If I remember correctly, its not that simple, and I think when it comes down to it, it is the Spanish authorities that would be deciding the value of the Spanish house.


Only just realised I had been quoted. Yes I understande that I think the same goes for the UK house you need to get a formal independant evaluatuation as well, I guess it is to stop people from picking numbers out of the air.


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

I'm not sure how the private message system works but I would be very grateful if you could p.m. me with the company that provides your health care policy and any details of the policy that you feel able to describe.

thanks


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## furiousfeline (Apr 4, 2011)

Alcalaina said:


> Most of the over 60s I know round here would like to sell up and return to the UK, but nobody is buying property. Some have actually left their Spanish homes empty and gone back.
> 
> The primary reason isn't healthcare, which is fine provided you do the paperwork properly, but missing their families and grandchildren.


Oh my! That is so sad to hear ..... they actually leave their Spanish homes empty to go back to the UK. Do they not try and sell them for a small price rather than nothing at all or do you mean they are rental properties?


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## furiousfeline (Apr 4, 2011)

furiousfeline said:


> Oh my! That is so sad to hear ..... they actually leave their Spanish homes empty to go back to the UK. Do they not try and sell them for a small price rather than nothing at all or do you mean they are rental properties?


I am the opposite, I am over 60 and looking to retire to Spain or Tenerife (not decided which yet) but I am constantly looking for property for long-term rental or even to buy if the price is right and the area is right. I need to make a few trips across first to check out different areas. I am looking preferably for somewhere in a residential area with a retired expat community, close to amenities, bus routes, etc. Any recommendations will be greatly appreciated.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

furiousfeline said:


> Oh my! That is so sad to hear ..... they actually leave their Spanish homes empty to go back to the UK. Do they not try and sell them for a small price rather than nothing at all or do you mean they are rental properties?


Some friends of ours have finally decided to go back to UK. 

They will be leaving a lovely house that they simply can't seem to sell for ANY price - there just aren't any buyers at the moment (at least not around here it would seem).

We have property that we would like to sell but can't get any one to view never mind make an offer!

Things are DIRE!


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

*Location, Location*

Interestingly, quite a few of the "novedades" I have been sent by Fotocasa in the past 2-3 weeks have "haz contraoferta" on the listing. One or two of my "favoritos" have gone "haz contraoferta", too.

Very few of these are actually "novedades". I see the same old stuff month in, month out. Fotocasa recycles ads as new with the addition of a photo here or there or maybe the seller pleaded with them to give it a fresh run. But many are "novedades" because of a _dramatic_ drop in the price. One of my faves was dropped Eu50k on a quick-sale original price of Eu160k. It's come down another Eu10k since. A flat I saw for myself down by the beach in El Cabanyal went from Eu199k to sell for less than EU90k. This is why offers are now coming in. These places are too cheap NOT to buy for anyone with cash in hand and an eye to the future. These are all flats in Valencia city centre.

It may possibly be that a British Valencia-specialist estate agent's announcement, 3 or 4 years ago, of the bottom of the market, has finally arrived in VLC city.

For plain vanilla holiday/retirement/resort properties, I think it will take some considerable time yet - many years, I fear.

As for that hot-spot, Valencia city centre, I'd better get my skates on.




snikpoh said:


> Some friends of ours have finally decided to go back to UK.
> 
> They will be leaving a lovely house that they simply can't seem to sell for ANY price - there just aren't any buyers at the moment (at least not around here it would seem).
> 
> ...


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