# level of language proficiency (Portuguese)



## borboleta (Apr 25, 2011)

Hello everyone!

Since I live in the Algarve I have noticed a dramatic change (positive change!) of attitude towards language learning.

Unlike before, when it was quite common expats living here for a decade, even running business here, without saying a single word in Portuguese! 
Today, more and more British expats want to learn Portuguese and are making an active effort in learning… and practice!

I'm curious ... What is your level of language proficiency?


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## Helen Ellis (Aug 9, 2008)

borboleta said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> Since I live in the Algarve I have noticed a dramatic change (positive change!) of attitude towards language learning.
> 
> ...


When I lived there I was fluent, as were most of my friends, couldn't write much, but would quite happily read a novel in Portuguese. I started with children's books and the Brazilian comics like Tio Patinhas and worked up. I was there 3 years. 
I'm rather rusty now, but on a weeks holiday last year I found I could hold simple conversations, order food and get directions etc which I don't think is bad after more than 30 years away. I spent most time in Lisbon or the north where fewer people spoke English. 
In the Algarve I found everyone wanted to speak English. It would be more difficult to practice if that is still the case. 
Having said that, I now live in Egypt and my Arabic is appalling. It is so difficult.


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## ValnGary (Dec 21, 2008)

We live in Central Portugal and not many people speak English here, whereas on a recent trip to the Algarve although we spoke in Portuguese, everyone answered back in English!


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## borboleta (Apr 25, 2011)

Helen Ellis said:


> I'm rather rusty now, but on a weeks holiday last year I found I could hold simple conversations, order food and get directions etc which I don't think is bad after more than 30 years away.


After more than 30 years... not bad at all!!  Good luck with your Arabic!!


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

Well mine is middling to good. I am lucky in that I already speak Fench fluently, good Spanish, and a couple of other languages.


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## borboleta (Apr 25, 2011)

*Helen Ellis & ValnGary*

That's why I always say if you want to learn Portuguese faster, don't come to the Algarve... here you actually don't need to speak Portuguese in your day-by-day... and that can make you "lazy" in learning. This is why many expats lived here in the past (even running business) without ever have spoken Portuguese... not even as bad as my English! 


*siobhanwf*

I recently had a student who already knew some other languages​​... the learning of Portuguese was faster, because he could relate the new skills he was learning with other he already had.


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## siobhanwf (Mar 20, 2009)

In Canberra they did a trial some years ago with regards to small children and learning a language. They used the 4 areas of the countries capital and taught a different language in each quadrant. I can't remember the actual languages but I do know that two of them were Japanese and Turkish.
They found that up until the age of 5 there is a receptor in the braich whin remains fully open until that age and then slowly starts to shut down.

_The young brain is inherently flexible, uniquely hard-wired to acquire language naturally. 
Early childhood is the best time for language acquisition. Ease of learning a second language diminishes with age. Between birth and adolescence the brain is hard-wired to acquire language naturally.

_
If you would like to look at a graph Benefits Of Children Learning A Second Language At A Young Age


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## borboleta (Apr 25, 2011)

It is truly amazing how children acquire language!! My daughter knows nothing about verbal conjugation or verbal tenses, and she does it so well!! And now she started saying some words in english (in the right context), only by listening to it! It is, indeed, amazing!! Pity we start loosing this natural hability, as well as the hability of making some particular sounds... the reason why is so difficult for some foreigners to make the nasal sound or for the Chinese to reproduce the sound "r".


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I have to say one of my big worries is thet we'll be moving to central Portugal and on arrival won't know more than the odd word of Portuguese....... In the longer term, I'm hoping I'll pick up enough of it to get by and I guess if I can learn basic Zulu and Ki-Swahili here, I should be able to learn basic Portuguese there but I suspect it ain't gonna be easy. 

Ah well, no-one ever told me life would be easy!


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## borboleta (Apr 25, 2011)

Knowing basic Zulu and Ki-Swahili will make learning Portuguese a kids game!  

Plus: if you are going to live in Central Portugal, you won't find many English speakers. With an active effort in learning, you'll get the language in no time, trust me! 

Good luck!


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I've got no choice but to learn it....... so learn it I will! 

Thanks for your good wishes! :clap2:


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## borboleta (Apr 25, 2011)

De nada.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Hope I don't make as many stuff ups with Portuguese as I did with Ki-Swahili.......... I once thought I was offering my two trackers a cup of coffee and mistakenly asked them if they'd like a cup of semen......... 

They couldn't stand up for laughing!


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## borboleta (Apr 25, 2011)

LOOOOOL That' what I'm doing right now!! 

In that case, make sure you won't ask for a "queque" (kind of a cupcake without the cover on top), until you're good enough with pronunciation! LOOOOL. Like I always say to my students: when in doubt, ask for a "pastel de nata" (kind of a small custard tart)!!


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Thanks for the tip...... it'll be gratefully recieved & faithfully applied! :clap2:


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## MrB (Jun 2, 2010)

An estate agent taught me the "3 Bs" for property buying yesterday:

barrata,bomita and bom!

cheers MrB


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## borboleta (Apr 25, 2011)

Bom, bonito e barato! (or in feminin - because our words have gender, go figure it out  - boa, bonita e barata). 

If you say bomita, it may sound like vomita (throw up)! I know, I know... Portuguese is a tricky language!! LOOOL


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## borboleta (Apr 25, 2011)

But hey, English can be tricky as well! A few weeks ago I was trying to explain what was a "javali" (wild boar), saying it is an animal that can be hunted... but with my "best English pronunciation" what I said was that it could be haunted!! LOL.

Some of us kill them with a rifle... others kill them by fright! LOOOOL


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## Liesbetje (Aug 12, 2011)

siobhanwf said:


> Well mine is middling to good. I am lucky in that I already speak Fench fluently, good Spanish, and a couple of other languages.


My French is quite good, but I have to say I find Portuguese very difficult! Written it resembles French a bit, so I can read a newspaper article with only limited use of a dictionary, but I don't manage to follow even a simple conversation. I catch the occasional word here and there, but that's it. I find that quite disappointing. 

Probably it doesn't help that I speak 3 germanic languages, and only one roman. I hope at some point that I can add Portuguese to the list! I already know now that after my return to Belgium I'll take Portuguese classes (because I really want to return here later, long term)


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## LemmingOverlord (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm a native speaker of both english and portuguese. I look 110% "foreign" to locals and they immediately approach me in english at restaurants and tourist spots. It's quite funny to see their surprise (and disappointemnt, somewhat) when I talk back to them in perfect alfacinha accent (that would be the Lisbon accent).

All I can say is it takes a very active effort to get the language under control.

- Be careful with the "r" as while in english we put teeth and facial muscles into it, in portuguese it usually comes from the back of the throat (hard "R", almost like clearing your throat) or rolls from the palate (soft "R"). Both are rather strange to english speakers. 

- Pay attention to "genders", very important, nothing screams "english" like getting your genders wrong... if you know a bit of french, then you know what I mean.

- Vowels are tremendously important. Forget anything you've learned from brazilian portuguese or spanish if you picked up any (more common than you'd think). Portuguese vowels sound to english speakers as if they are being mumbled, rather than spoken out in a clear voice. Brazilian and Spanish speakers actually put more emphasis on the vowels. It almost sounds like they are shrieking out each vowel.


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## lindyman77 (Feb 18, 2010)

Ah, the Portuguese language how I loathe thee! I would say that our Portuguese is middle right now. Our Portuguese friends say that we're doing well having only been here 18 months so far. The real trouble is in our heads. My wife and I always worried about what we'll sound like and for us that has been the worst thing to overcome- the fear of sounding like idiots. Getting over that can't be taught...


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## somanyhands (Apr 9, 2011)

lindyman77 said:


> Ah, the Portuguese language how I loathe thee! I would say that our Portuguese is middle right now. Our Portuguese friends say that we're doing well having only been here 18 months so far. The real trouble is in our heads. My wife and I always worried about what we'll sound like and for us that has been the worst thing to overcome- the fear of sounding like idiots. Getting over that can't be taught...


I can empathise with that. I still feel the same but I think what makes it harder (living in the Algarve in particular) is when I try to use Portuguese only to be responded to in English.
It's pretty disheartening but I do try to carry on and reply back again in Portuguese regardless.
That said, some places I go have started to realise this is skip the English reply now (the butchers in Pingo is one LOL. They're used to me now!)


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