# Moving to Spain



## gmagana (Jul 7, 2008)

Hello everyone!

It's great to discover this place, I love open-minded people, and it takes a pretty open mind to move to another country! I congratulate you all, first of all, for taking that gigantic step!

Ok, now for the question: I am a US-trained computer systems engineer; Dual USA/Mexico citizen (Mexican by birth). I moved back to Mexico a couple years ago, and I have discovered, to my dismay, that Mexico is not the country for me anymore. Before I came here, I had discovered that the USA was not for me anymore (anyone see a pattern here? ). So going back to the USA is completely out of the question, for at least 20 more years.

Since I have gotten married here in Mexico, my wife and I have been talking about going elsewhere, and she's willing to give Europe a try. I don't mind going to a strange country not speaking a word of the language and picking it up as I go (I did that in Moldova for a job stint a while back), but I don't want to place her in that position. She will be stressed enough going to a new country...

Sooo.... I am a highly-trained engineer type, I don't have fears about getting a job (for example, I can apply for a job at a big consulting firm in the USA and tell them I want to work out of their Spain office, they would probbaly take care of the rest). My question is more about my wife. She is a nurse (whatever type of nurse you become when you go to university for four years). She has little work experience (2 years she will have by year's end). I understand the situation for nurses is bad in Spain. How serious is the situation for nurses? I would certainly not like to force her not to work, or to take up a job doing somethign other than what she loves and studied for... Should I just look for another country?

Also, I have not been able to find this information: Is there a tech hub in Spain? In the US there is Silicon Valley, Dallas/Houston, NYC... Mexico has... Hmmm, there are great beaches here ... Is there an analogue for that in Spain?


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

I would ASK about work before you get too excited..

There are literally 100's of GOOD well trained IT folk here - many US corp trained but with IT/TELCO engineering degrees as well - and they work as PC repair men. 

I don't want to seem off hand, but my experience of US trained staff is that they're are not as flexible (generally) as European trained staff - I was the Spanish Country Tech Manager for a US based fortune 50 IT company. And was European SE manager for another large (German) Corp before. Not saying you're not flexible - just be aware that other Tech Mgrs here think the same - OK!.

Salaries are low so US corp's will hire here in preference to paying US salaries and paying relocation. Also hiring a European is less hassle - no work permits/visas etc. 

They've been shutting down telephone support operations in other European countries to set them up here. A good SE in a US corp earns about €36,000-48,000 a year incl flex portion here. OK you get a nice car but it's a taxable item. 

Most large corps are also head capped as they hired staff during the boom - at inflated salaries often and cant simply sack as they cannot rehire either due to capping OR legally.

There is NO Silicon Valley. There is work - but much is temporary and/or with terrible conditions. Unless you have a VERY specific high demand skill - I believe you'll struggle. 

I have a friend who's really excellent in his field, he's now an EMEA second/third level support engineer. He's Argentinian - and he's had to struggle to show he's the equal to (though he's imo better than) his Spanish colleagues. This type of discrimination towards Central/South Americans is, sadly, still about.

Sorry.

Me?: I'm happily out of the rat race. I'm now a lowly PC guy at at a town hall - poor salary (I could not live on it - but don't have to).


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## gmagana (Jul 7, 2008)

Thanks for you reply Chris!

Well, I wanted to ask here first. I have enough professional contacts in the US and in Spain that I know at least I will not go hungry (for example, I do from Mexico, a lot of consulting worjk for US clients, I could certainly continue to to that, even while paying the two hundred-odd euro pero month tax).

My main goal is quality of life, rather than riches, so in that sense, I am out of the rat race too.



chris(madrid) said:


> There are literally 100's of GOOD well trained IT folk here - many US corp trained but with IT/TELCO engineering degrees as well - and they work as PC repair men.


That's pretty strange to hear, there are several Spanish companies that I know that outsource stuff elsewhere. Mexico is simlar to Spain in that respect.



chris(madrid) said:


> I have a friend who's really excellent in his field, he's now an EMEA second/third level support engineer. He's Argentinian - and he's had to struggle to show he's the equal to (though he's imo better than) his Spanish colleagues. This type of discrimination towards Central/South Americans is, sadly, still about.


Yeah same thing in Mexico. Except Mexicans discriminate against Mexicans... Go figure... I experienced a little of that Spanish attitude while I was in France, the Spanish seemed *too* proud of their heritage. It's ok, I've dealt with discriminating people before (don't think all Americans are non-biased people).

Thanks for the info on the IT scene in Spain. I'd rather ask here than go look for a job over there first. I know wherever I go I will not go hungry, I just want to live a good life  Otherwise the only option is to go back to the US and rejoin the rat race, and I certainly don't want to do that.

Cheers,

gabriel


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## chris(madrid) (Mar 23, 2008)

gmagana said:


> That's pretty strange to hear, there are several Spanish companies that I know that outsource stuff elsewhere. Mexico is similar to Spain in that respect.


 Alot of PURE SPANISH communicating corp's often (naturally) outsource, jobs that don't need to be here, to South America. It's cheaper still. So there are skilled folk here not with good work - not because they're unavailable - but because they cost more. 

Also the way contracting works here is VERY DIFFERENT. My wife was in this world for a couple of years - it's NOT like US contracting. 

Freelancing is RARE - Most Spanish firms will contract some large consulting house - and these will then use inhouse resource until they cant find anybody (and I do mean anybody - i've seen total numpties used as project managers because they were available).

Then they outsource as a last resort - but pay poorly to the lowest bit of the chain - I've seen outsource chains 5 companies long - go figure. Whereas in say Holland or the UK you'd search out an expert and contract them.

But many big US corps have logistics in Holland (tax concessions for warehousing). Mfg in Eire (very highly skilled English speaking cheap workforce), and phone support in Spain - the high influx of European Nationals escaping to the sun means there are 100's of Bilingual/Trilingual youngsters here now. 

Yup the Spanish are PROUD. But less arrogant about it (away from home) than the Brits/French and US folk. We "met" a Spanish ex-pat enclave in Germany when we lived there. We went to visit just the once; first & last time. 

I'm aware of the Mexican/Mexican discrimination from a friend in DF. He's an power generating consultant - well paid - and says it's more pleasant working in the US/Germany.

Also aware of US attitudes - Being BRITISH gave me often almost regal status - Germans too - Spaniards less so. Saw this at a US SE/CE training centre.

Seriously hope you find what you want. btw - You'll find more readiness towards non-Spanish hiring techniques in the Barcelona area.


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