# rules & regulations



## lacanuta (Feb 6, 2014)

The Spanish change the rules or 'move the goal posts' as is their want and there is nothing we expats can or should do about it. If we are going to live in their country then we must comply mostly without question.

Having said that the Municipal or local authorities seem to make some crazy decisions considering the unemployment situation. The beautiful promenade along the port area in Javea is blessed with some great café/bars and superb restaurants. For many years these establishments have been allowed to spread their tables and chairs to the beach/stone wall side of the promenade with little or no hindrance to those taking a stroll along the front and enjoying the atmosphere. Now the local police enforce that trade is only offered and conducted within the curtilage of the café/bar with fines for those who do not comply. This has led to a reduction in business, tables and chairs pushed so close together that one feels like a sardine in a tin, and a resulting need for less staff to serve the concentrated customers. Such restrictions drive customers away and the resulting reduction in sales means yet more unemployment; madness but I still would not want to live anywhere else.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

And do you think Spain is the only EU member state not to change the rules/laws or' move the goalposts', as you put it?  It certainly isn't the only EU state to do 'silly things' as any regular reading of the huge sums wasted by HM Treasury or local authorities throughout the UK will demonstrate.
Within the various Treaties signed by EU member states and Directives issued by the Commission there is latitude for member states to opt out or impose their own rules. The UK opt-out of the Working Hours Regs. is one example of that. The Conservative Government's refusal to adopt the Social Chapter of Maastrict is another.
I think we'd all agree that that is the right way to proceed. Europe is not homogenous and member states with widely diverging economies, histories and cultures can't be treated as if they were, as the disaster in the eurozone shows only too well.
British and other immigrants already living in Spain just have to grin and bear any changes as do immigrants in the UK. Those contemplating immigration should acquaint themselves with the current situation and remember that rules and exchange rates change and not always for the better!


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## lacanuta (Feb 6, 2014)

I agree with everything you say although I think that the UK tends to bow before the EU far more than other member states. For my family and me, it is a case of 'eyes wide open.' We are aware of the bad points but have an overwhelming desire to live in Spain and enjoy life to the full.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

lacanuta said:


> I agree with everything you say although I think that the UK tends to bow before the EU far more than other member states.


Does it??? I'd say the UK has rather more exemptions than other EU states, because of all the things it has opted out of in the past. The working hours directive for example.

A lot of the Eurosceptic media blame the EU for any regulation they don't approve of, and Britain has been hauled up before the European court of human rights a few times. I guess that affects people's perception somewhat.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

lacanuta said:


> The Spanish change the rules or 'move the goal posts' as is their want and there is nothing we expats can or should do about it. If we are going to live in their country then we must comply mostly without question.
> 
> Having said that the Municipal or local authorities seem to make some crazy decisions considering the unemployment situation. The beautiful promenade along the port area in Javea is blessed with some great café/bars and superb restaurants. For many years these establishments have been allowed to spread their tables and chairs to the beach/stone wall side of the promenade with little or no hindrance to those taking a stroll along the front and enjoying the atmosphere. Now the local police enforce that trade is only offered and conducted within the curtilage of the café/bar with fines for those who do not comply. This has led to a reduction in business, tables and chairs pushed so close together that one feels like a sardine in a tin, and a resulting need for less staff to serve the concentrated customers. Such restrictions drive customers away and the resulting reduction in sales means yet more unemployment; madness but I still would not want to live anywhere else.


the restaurants which had tables at the sea wall were always breaking the law - the ley de las costas - but the previous administration used the constant & frequent fines imposed upon them as an easy way to make money

there are lots of us in the town happy that these tables have been removed - we can now *all *enjoy the views & sit on the benches placed along there for the purpose of doing just that, without feeling uncomfortable, surrounded by tables of diners & drinkers

we can now stroll along that paseo without running the gauntlet of waiting staff, too

the bars & restaurants all still have outside seating - it's just that it's all legal now

I guess you can't please everyone all the time though


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

The same situation of café and restaurant tables on the footpaths applies in the UK as well. In most cases the footpath is part of the highway and placing of tables on it obstructs the free passage of passers-by including the aged and infirm, Mothers with babies, etc who are forced to step out into the road. It is an illegality that should be enforced in the interests of safety. In some places, it is, but if one knows somebody in the right places....


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## lacanuta (Feb 6, 2014)

Too true


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

The Spaniards think that rules are for breaking 


For example, parks that say - Perros Prohibidos - are usually full of dogs !!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> The same situation of café and restaurant tables on the footpaths applies in the UK as well. In most cases the footpath is part of the highway and placing of tables on it obstructs the free passage of passers-by including the aged and infirm, Mothers with babies, etc who are forced to step out into the road. It is an illegality that should be enforced in the interests of safety. In some places, it is, but if one knows somebody in the right places....


So true. There is a large wooden sherry barrel on the pavement outside a bar near us, completely blocking the way. It is used as a table by smokers standing outside the bar. The irony is that it is right opposite the Ayuntamiento and the police station, and they are its main users!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Allie-P said:


> The Spaniards think that rules are for breaking


There's a lot of truth in that. Spain has a strong history of anarchism, and many good reasons not to trust the authorities!


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> There's a lot of truth in that. Spain has a strong history of anarchism, and many good reasons not to trust the authorities!


But it is a pity there are not a lot more places with the same work-ethics and community spirit as Marinaleda


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## kimuyen (Aug 8, 2013)

Allie-P said:


> The Spaniards think that rules are for breaking
> 
> 
> For example, parks that say - Perros Prohibidos - are usually full of dogs !!


I think it has something to do with the rebellious streak of the human race regardless where they live. Driving by many streets in Washington DC in the US, where you see the sign "no parking", you will no doubt find cars sitting idle blocking the streets creating traffic jams. Sigh!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> But it is a pity there are not a lot more places with the same work-ethics and community spirit as Marinaleda


Marinaleda got the publicity, but lots of Andalusian pueblos (mine included) have the same work ethic and community spirit. We may not have murals of Che Guevara on the town hall, but it's there all right.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Marinaleda got the publicity, but lots of Andalusian pueblos (mine included) have the same work ethic and community spirit. We may not have murals of Che Guevara on the town hall, but it's there all right.


It's the same here, but what of the larger towns and cities?


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

From what I have seen it is a total fallacy to think that Spaniards have some kind of 'mañana' complex. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Obviously I haven't personally inspected the work habits and ethos of every Spaniard but judging by the state of our village it's clear that cívic pride is very much alive and active.
Similarly whenever I go into Estepona, I'm structure by the sheer delightfulness of the streets and squares.
A total contrast to my experience of the Czech Republic.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> From what I have seen it is a total fallacy to think that Spaniards have some kind of 'mañana' complex. Nothing could be further from the truth.


When I see people here go off first thing in the morning with their equipment to attend to the olives (picking them at the moment) to spend a day in the freezing cold struggling to stand on a mountainside that even a mountain goat would find challenging. I admire them. If anyone has ever tried to perform that feat of working on a surface that requires one's feet to be at such angles, it is really painful and a great strain on the calves, the thighs, the back and every muscle in the body. If there is no work here they will go off to France, Germany, Switzerland, wherever to do seasonal agricultural work there. They don't just sit back and hold out their hands, they work wherever they can. It is part of their pride; not just to make a living but to be able to send their children to get a better education with the hope of a better life.



mrypg9 said:


> Obviously I haven't personally inspected the work habits and ethos of every Spaniard but judging by the state of our village it's clear that civic pride is very much alive and active.
> Similarly whenever I go into Estepona, I'm structure by the sheer delightfulness of the streets and squares.A total contrast to my experience of the Czech Republic.


Here the streets are kept clean, the housewives and occasionally bachelors will sweep their patch and that of their immediate neighbours if they are ageing or infirm. The _paseo_ is also kept clean and tidy and when one of the bars burnt down over a year ago, everybody rallied round to help, even the other bar at the other end of the park. Community spirit and (as Mary says) civic pride is alive and well in the villages of Andalucía. One only has to look at the way the streets are decorated for the likes of Corpus Christi even with even the non-religious joining in with the street decorations.


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