# Buying a property without a solicitor



## livingonbeans (May 12, 2015)

Hi,

I am after a bit of advice. Me and my wife are currently looking to buy a house in Andalucia, Spain. We have previously lived in Spain for 3 years whilst working in Gibraltar, so think we've got a pretty good idea how things work.

We've found a house we like, and have had an offer accepted, and now are starting the motions in getting the purchase sorted. When I spoke to the vendor today and asked for his solicitor details he informed me he wasn't going to use one as he didn't deem it necessary. This then got me wondering if we needed to use one ourselves.

Obviously every person is different, but this is our situation with the house/personal situation. We are buying a town house for 50k euros from an old English guy who has lived there for the last 18 years without a mortgage, and only wants to move as he wishes to be closer to the coast. The vendor is very genuine, and seems a very nice and honest guy. When looking around his house he was pulling out all the original paperwork, deeds receipts etc...and just in general I feel we can trust him. We do not require a mortgage and are paying cash, something else which makes me think the transaction may be easier than a normal purchase. We've been given a bilingual solicitor based in Gibraltar who our friends used, and she has quoted us £1,000, as this is her minimum charge. I'm not sure if this is reasonable or not, but I suppose in proportion to the house, this is actually quite a lot.

We currently do not have an NIE or bank account, and this was going to be something the solicitor was going to sort on our behalf as we are in the UK and she was including it in her fee. We are however in Spain for 1 week from Thursday, so if we decide against using her, maybe we can get the ball rolling, however I don't think we'd be able to get the NIE and bank account sorted in one week, any thoughts?

Usually I'd never consider purchasing without a solicitor, however due to the nature of the buyer, the price of the house, the fact we have no mortgage and that the current owner being debt free I'm not sure if its necessary. 

I'd appreciate any advice/help on the matter.

Thanks a lot!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

livingonbeans said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am after a bit of advice. Me and my wife are currently looking to buy a house in Andalucia, Spain. We have previously lived in Spain for 3 years whilst working in Gibraltar, so think we've got a pretty good idea how things work.
> 
> ...


Although not quite the same, I wouldnt buy a house in the UK without a solicitor and I understand the rules and the language.

Jo xxx


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## smitty5668 (Feb 25, 2015)

tempting though it is, i would personally always use a lawyer


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## Tammydog (Mar 7, 2015)

My brother bought in the Canary isles without a solicitor and lost everything and also had the previous owners bills to contend with. Had to come back and move his into my Mums one bed bungalow. Now renting in UK and unless he wins the lottery no chance of buying again. Would you buy in UK without a solicitor? I would not and I'm a retired Estate Agent.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Seriously tho, you've lived in Spain, you must know the pitfalls, the illegal builds, the corruption, the strange rules and regulations, that only a local solicitor/abogado could negotiate and see............. For the sake of £1,000 is it really worth the risk

Jo xxx


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## livingonbeans (May 12, 2015)

Well, that's exactly why I'm asking....I know its only a £1,000, but when the house is only worth £36,250 it makes you wonder. And like I've said, I can appreciate why some people do use them, I have seen a lot of people lose everything, especially on the costa del sol where I used to live, however I feel this is an exception to the rule. It is a town 3 hours inland from the coast, from an old expat. I can't see any direct risks associated to it. 

That said, that was the reason for my post, I was 80/20 going to get a solicitor to sort contracts/NIE/bank etc...out for us, and if there are no positive comments anti solicitor then I will 100% do so


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## Tammydog (Mar 7, 2015)

We lost out before with a solicitor spent 4 years back and forth with courts as well. First solicitor was bad but we did have an excellent Spanish one that had studied in UK as well in the end. Worth every penny. Small price to pay as so much more can go wrong than just the cost if property. As already mentioned. Ask about complimentary tax as well if you have not already done so?


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## livingonbeans (May 12, 2015)

Yes, all sorted with the tax. To be fair, the solicitor we have been recommended has been used by 2 friends purchasing houses in Spain who can't recommend her highly enough. Having spoken to her for at least 45 minutes on the phone she seems like a very nice lady who definitely knows what she's doing. 

So, lets just say we do go with a solicitor, does £1k sound reasonable for something on a 50k euro house? I appreciate everything has to have a minimum price, however does this sound around the right mark?


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## davexf (Jan 26, 2009)

Hola

I LIVE IN AN ILLEGAL HOUSE - nuf said? Psst wanna buy it cheap? 

Davexf


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

You absolutely don't need a lawyer. All you need is a good conveyancer - they do all the legal checks. Why pay for a service that you don't get? An gestor is just as competent as an abogado in Spain.

In the UK, whilst you might think that you're engaging a solicitor, in actual fact you're not. They tend to pass the work on to a junior clerk or someone employed solely for conveyancing - they do all the legal checks just like in Spain.


To the OP - if you had an NIE for the 3 years you were in Spain previously, then it is still valid. You do not need to (must not) get another one. Even if you've lost it, go back to where it was issued and they can re-issue the piece of paper.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

We have become friends with a couple who have rented property locally for a few months this winter and the year before, to see how they would like living in Spain and look around for properties (just as the forum always advises people to do). During this time they've asked both us and numerous other people lots of questions about the buying processs and other subjects.

Imagine our horror, therefore, when they went to view a house last Friday and the very next day signed a reservation contract with the estate agent committing them to paying a 10% deposit within one week and the balance upon completion within 60 days - all without consulting a lawyer (or a gestor). The estate agent seems like a very nice man, they said. I despair, I really do.

The agent has told them there are no debts attached to the property. I asked how old the nota simple is as I know the house has been on the market for at least a year. What's a nota simple, they said. I asked how they knew if the owner had all the required permissions to reform the house, and whether any additions had been made to it in the process, and if so were they properly registered. Blank looks. At least it isn't a rural property so highly unlikely to be at risk of demolition.

I gave them the details of a lawyer and urged them not to pay the deposit until they have consulted her, but whether they will or just go ahead in blind faith, I don¡t know. They just seem to have made the classic mistake of falling in love with a house on first sight (they didn't even ask for a second viewing, for heaven's sake) and common sense goes out of the window. I hope it isn't something they will come to regret.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

jojo said:


> Although not quite the same, I wouldnt buy a house in the UK without a solicitor and I understand the rules and the language.





Tammydog said:


> My brother bought in the Canary isles without a solicitor and lost everything and also had the previous owners bills to contend with. Had to come back and move his into my Mums one bed bungalow. Now renting in UK and unless he wins the lottery no chance of buying again. Would you buy in UK without a solicitor? I would not and I'm a retired Estate Agent.


These comments are misleading because you are implying that a solicitor in Spain has the same amount of contractual obligations as they do in the UK. In fact they don't. All they do is carry out the paperwork and if it turns out the property is illegal, or has outstanding debts they have very little liability.

Of course you may get a solicitor who happens to take an active role in warning you of any risks involved, etc, but it's not particularly in their interest to do so. You might as well save money and use a gestor instead.

Edit to add: and of course in Spain the exchange takes place at the notary's office with all present, so the solicitor does not do the conveyancing either


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

I think 1000€ is excessive. We used an abogado(a) and she did as thorough a job as could be expected but we instructed her on what we wanted checking - her fee 420€.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Chopera said:


> These comments are misleading because you are implying that a solicitor in Spain has the same amount of contractual obligations as they do in the UK. In fact they don't. All they do is carry out the paperwork and if it turns out the property is illegal, or has outstanding debts they have very little liability.
> 
> Of course you may get a solicitor who happens to take an active role in warning you of any risks involved, etc, but it's not particularly in their interest to do so. You might as well save money and use a gestor instead.
> 
> Edit to add: and of course in Spain the exchange takes place at the notary's office with all present, so the solicitor does not do the conveyancing either


You contract the abogado to do what YOU want, so whatever you contract for is what they have to do. If they fail to do so, they are in breach of contract. The trouble is most people don't know what they want the professional to do in the first place.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I'm pleased to say our friends have listened to advice and engaged the lawyer, who has told them that the deposit is to be held in her firm's client account until all the necessary checks have been completed, and it will not be released until that time. Thank goodness.


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## labob (Dec 2, 2014)

I didn't use a solicitor to buy my flat but I bought through an estate agent who could show me all the paperwork whenever I needed. Plus the notary declared the property debt free so if it wasn't I can take him to task about it.

The first thing to do is to check the cadastral register (link in the faq or do a search) and ask the guy if he has an energy certificate - you can't sell a place without one.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

labob said:


> I didn't use a solicitor to buy my flat but I bought through an estate agent who could show me all the paperwork whenever I needed. Plus the notary declared the property debt free so if it wasn't I can take him to task about it.
> 
> The first thing to do is to check the cadastral register (link in the faq or do a search) and ask the guy if he has an energy certificate - you can't sell a place without one.


The notaire will check that for you at the time of the sale.


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## Chopera (Apr 22, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> You contract the abogado to do what YOU want, so whatever you contract for is what they have to do. If they fail to do so, they are in breach of contract. The trouble is most people don't know what they want the professional to do in the first place.


What do you suggest a buyer should contract a solicitor to do then?


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## The Skipper (Nov 26, 2014)

snikpoh said:


> You absolutely don't need a lawyer. All you need is a good conveyancer - they do all the legal checks. Why pay for a service that you don't get? An gestor is just as competent as an abogado in Spain.
> 
> In the UK, whilst you might think that you're engaging a solicitor, in actual fact you're not. They tend to pass the work on to a junior clerk or someone employed solely for conveyancing - they do all the legal checks just like in Spain.
> 
> ...


I agree, a lawyer is not always necessary in Spain but legal guidance is ¡vital and a good gestor may be able to do the job just as well as an abogado. When we were buying our house the Spanish lawyer discovered that it wasn´t even in the municipality that the vendor said it was and there were many other complications that had to be sorted before we could complete the purchase. We would have inherited a legal nightmare if we had bought without the services of an abogado, despite the fact that the vendor assured us the property was total legal when we first viewed it! True, by the way, that conveyancing in the UK is normally carried out by a clerk who is not a qualified solicitor but all of their work is in theory done under the supervision of a a lawyer and, more importantly, you have the protection of the lawyer´s professional indemnity insurance if mistakes are made.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Lynn R said:


> I'm pleased to say our friends have listened to advice and engaged the lawyer, who has told them that the deposit is to be held in her firm's client account until all the necessary checks have been completed, and it will not be released until that time. Thank goodness.


Just to illustrate why it's best to use a lawyer/gestor - this couple have now been advised by their lawyer that despite the estate agent's reservation contract stating that there are no debts attached to the property, there is in fact a mortgage still outstanding on it. Also, the house is registered as a single storey dwelling although it now has 3 storeys. Problems, problems, problems. The lawyer thinks it can be sorted out by obtaining a certificate of antiquity for the alterations, but of course this needs to be done before the sale is completed.


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