# Residents tax



## Debbib (Jun 15, 2013)

Hi everyone,
I've just read the recent post on this subject and now I'm really confused.
Our plan is to sell our uk home early next year and move to Spain after 1st July next year. From everything I've read previously I understood we wouldn't be tax resident until the following year 2017. If this is not the case would we be liable for tax on our house sale and pension lump sum in Spain next year when we move.
Thanks in anticipation of your replies.


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

It depends on whether you have planned to move here permanently, which seems to be the case, so you'd be tax resident from Jan 1st according to one version. 
This muddies the waters as the 183 day rule is usually quoted, and if so then 2017, you'd declare for 2016
Take your pick, We all seem confused now!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

extranjero said:


> It depends on whether you have planned to move here permanently, which seems to be the case, so you'd be tax resident from Jan 1st according to one version.
> This muddies the waters as the 183 day rule is usually quoted, and if so then 2017, you'd declare for 2016
> Take your pick, We all seem confused now!


I just posted this on the other thread

Do you need to submit a Spanish tax return?


I think it's clear enough

Debbib - if you are still in the UK & tax resident there when you sell the property, you wouldn't be tax resident in Spain, & wouldn't have to pay Spansih taxes on the sale


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> I just posted this on the other thread
> 
> Do you need to submit a Spanish tax return?
> 
> ...


Sure? Are you saying that even if someone does spend more than 183 days in Spain, therefore tax resident for the whole year, provided they sold the house while in the UK before they moved, they wouldn't pay any tax? 
The general consensus was they they would have to declare it.
There was a long discussion on this forum about this a year or so ago.
Was it Cambio?


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

Spanish tax year starts 1st January and ends 31st of december. To be considered a tax resident you have to been habitually resident during that years for six months or 183 days. A tax declaration has to be made the following year, declaring all income.

So if you sell your house and take your lump sum in the U.K., to avoid Spanish tax, do not reside more than 182 days in Spain, in that year. Those days do not have to be consecutive.

Asking such questions on a forum like this will no doubt result in different answers, do consider professional advice, it might cost you but can save a lot of money.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

extranjero said:


> Sure? Are you saying that even if someone does spend more than 183 days in Spain, therefore tax resident for the whole year, provided they sold the house while in the UK before they moved, they wouldn't pay any tax?
> The general consensus was they they would have to declare it.
> There was a long discussion on this forum about this a year or so ago.
> Was it Cambio?



just realised that I wasn't clear - of course if you were here long enough to be tax resident (183 days) then you'd have to declare the sale - I was responding to the OP's idea that moving here here_ after 1st July _would mean that they aren't tax resident in Spain for that year - they wouldn't be


Hepa is correct - professional advice is best, though the link I provided is to a professional website


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## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Even the professional advice given in the link refers to being taxed for the whole year however short a time you spend in Spain, if you have moved your centre of interests there.
This would apply to the majority of expats , and it seems the goalposts are likely to move.


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## Debbib (Jun 15, 2013)

Thank you to you all for your helpful replies and think I will seek professional advice Hepa.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> I just posted this on the other thread
> 
> Do you need to submit a Spanish tax return?
> 
> ...


Quoting from t hat website:


> Situation 2: I became resident part way through the year
> 
> For those moving to Spain from another country, the year of transition can throw up some questions about residency status. For example, say you gave up a job working in London on 10th March 2012, spent a couple of months in Spain lining up a job for the Autumn, then went travelling round Africa between June and August before returning to Spain to rent a flat and start your job on 1st September. You submit a UK tax return for the year to 5th April 2012 then inform HMRC that you are no longer resident in the UK. Do you have to do a Spanish tax return for 2012?
> 
> ...


So if you didn't, say, move until November, then you would be considered to be UK tax resident for that year and therefore not tax resident in Spain until the next financial year.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

As I understand it, if one moves to Spain, i.e comes to live permanently, moves their home, they must register on the EU reg and they become tax resident immediately, as their centre of economic activity will have moved to Spain.

The 183 day rule: If they come on and off, if that amounts to 183 in a tax year then that would rendered them tax resident.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

larryzx said:


> As I understand it, if one moves to Spain, i.e comes to live permanently, moves their home, they must register on the EU reg and they become tax resident immediately, as their centre of economic activity will have moved to Spain.
> 
> The 183 day rule: If they come on and off, if that amounts to 183 in a tax year then that would rendered them tax resident.


The problem is, Larry, under DTT (Double Taxation Treaties) one cannot be tax resident in both countries where a DTT exists. If one moved his family/centre of economic interest from say UK to Spain in November his tax residency would have been more than 183 days in UK and less than 183 days in Spain so he would not be tax resident in Spain until July of the following year. It is always complicated where the fiscal year of one country is different from that of another plus there is the situation where the determination of tax residency in UK (different from the OECD model) is only 90 days.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

I believe that as soon as one informs HMRC that they have moved to Spain they will send the paperwork, which one takes to Hacienda, who will then liaison with HMRC. If there are problems in a particuar case, the two agencies will agree what is to be done. Thus tax resident in just one country.


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## ddrysdale99 (Apr 3, 2014)

Am I misreading the article or does is say that any time spent in Spain up to the 6th of April don't count towards the 183 days "as you will be a UK Tax Resident" during that time.
All very confusing - especially "In a further twist you could choose to submit a return" - sounds like you can choose to be tax resident if it's in your interest - or not if it isn't...


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

ddrysdale99 said:


> Am I misreading the article or does is say that any time spent in Spain up to the 6th of April don't count towards the 183 days "as you will be a UK Tax Resident" during that time.
> All very confusing - especially "In a further twist you could choose to submit a return" - sounds like you can choose to be tax resident if it's in your interest - or not if it isn't...


Of course any time up to 6th April counts towards the 183 days in Spain because the fiscal year in Spain is the same as the Calendar one. It is only the UK that has to be bl**dy difficult and go April to April (and not even from the 1st)


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## ddrysdale99 (Apr 3, 2014)

So the article is wrong when is says:-
On the face of it you could be liable to submit a return because you spent the last 4 months of the year as well as part of March and all of April and May in Spain – more than 183 days. However_* the days you spent in Spain while you were still UK tax resident (i.e. up to 5 April) are not counted for the purposes of Spanish residency determination*_ even though you were physically in Spain from 10th March.


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## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

ddrysdale99 said:


> So the article is wrong when is says:-
> On the face of it you could be liable to submit a return because you spent the last 4 months of the year as well as part of March and all of April and May in Spain – more than 183 days. However_* the days you spent in Spain while you were still UK tax resident (i.e. up to 5 April) are not counted for the purposes of Spanish residency determination*_ even though you were physically in Spain from 10th March.


Just call your tax office in UK they will tell you what you need to do, without any misunderstandings.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

I can only give you our timescales

SOLD December 2013

NHS LUMP SUM February 2014

Moved here February 2014

This year we declare tax for 1st January 2014 to 31st December 2014

house sale not declared as it was in the previous tax year (spain) and we were resident in the UK.

Lump Sum declared as although we lived in the UK at the time, we became liable for tax here as we lived here before July.

PERSONALLY would not move in the same year as I sold my house I would not want to muddy the waters.


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