# Tax Lawyer or Agent?



## Terrylovesyoghurt (Jan 14, 2019)

Hi Everyone,

Long story short I was born and raised in Australia and am a US Citizen Born Abroad. I have never lived in the US, have absolutely no tie there and only very recently became aware of the tax requirements (cue panic). I have been looking into getting my tax into compliance and the possibility of relinquishing my Citizenship (My fiancee is a UK citizen so I am looking at getting a UK citizenship once we are married). I spoke to a lawyer who quoted me approx. $25,000 CAD (cue more panic). 

I have been looking into using a Tax agent vs a lawyer to get my tax into compliance using the Streamline process but the only information I can really find on it is written by lawyers so I'm not sure if its necessary or not.

I am also wondering if it is worth going through a lawyer or to try and relinquish my citizenship myself? I have no property, and within all the thresholds and don't qualify as a covered expat. 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. The more I try and research the more confused I get!

Thanks so much


----------



## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Net-net, unless you're planning on trying to immigrate to the US, chances are you could easily just forget about the whole thing and there would never be any particular reverberations. If you were born overseas, chances are you don't have a US Social Security number and you may not have (or have ever had) a US passport.

If you really want to renounce your US citizenship, just be aware that it will cost you $2350 in fees at the US Consulate. Up to you if you want to bother - though generally speaking, there is simply a question on one of the forms asking if you are "up to date" on your taxes and they don't seem to do any checking on that if you just answer "yes." 

You may be better off just letting sleeping dogs lie - until and unless you find you have a "need" to either claim or renounce your US citizenship.


----------



## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

Do nothing! There is no reason to panic.

You do not have a US birthplace, your banks are presumably not aware of US citizenship so have no been reporting your account.

Do you know if your parents registered your birth with a US consulate, or obtained a Social Security Number for you? If not, even better, but if they did it doesn't matter because you've never been in the US tax system. I assume you've also never had a US passport?

Becoming compliant and renouncing will cost you a lot of money. Forgetting about this will accomplish exactly the same thing and cost you nothing.

If you do renounce, there are no questions about tax. It's a simple procedure for which a lawyer is not required. You can renounce without ever coming into compliance but frankly if you don't have a US birthplace and have not encountered any problems, why make the US government aware of your existence?

If you are nervous, remember this: over 85 percent of non-resident US citizens are not compliant, and that number is not likely to change. This includes a great many who where born in the US and need to deal with birthplace issues in countries where banks check that when opening accounts. You are an Australian born in Australia and nothing further. You have no reason to worry.


----------



## Terrylovesyoghurt (Jan 14, 2019)

Hey Guys,

Thanks very much!

I do have a social security number and a passport.

My worry is that my partner and I both work in film and TV which means there is a high chance we will end up working in the States at some point. I am in two minds about relinquishing for that reason (as I may end up needing it to work in the States, but on the other hand I can always apply for a visa/sponsorship through my Australian passport if I do relinquish without all the tax pitfalls).

I could just hold on until/if the jobs may happen but I am a little worried that the streamline process gets stopped I will be in a lot more trouble.


----------



## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

The "streamlined compliance" thing has been around for a very long time now in various guises. (It used to be just the "policy" of the IRS without having to write out a "confession" and explanation of why you hadn't filed.) I really wouldn't expect it to disappear any time soon.

OTOH, back in the mid 1990s, they passed a law that included all sorts of "penalties" for renouncing your US nationality. Most have been superceded by the $2350 fee and some other legislation regarding former US citizens, but the law itself is still on the books. It just happens to include something about the attorney general having the power to deny a visa to former US citizens. I'd be more concerned about that aspect of "gotchas" than over the possibility that the streamlined compliance program goes away. 

I'd just keep on as you have been doing. Unless you somehow get rich and famous and it becomes "obvious" that you are a US citizen, there's next to no chance that the IRS is going to somehow pounce on you out of the blue. They're short staffed enough as it is. (And that's before the shutdown!)


----------



## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

The fact that you may want to go work in the US does complicate matters a little. If you had no interest in setting foot in the country I'd say just ignore this and forget about it. However, until your plans have firmed up, you should probably continue to do nothing, but try to stay up to date on the situation.

If you were to renounce, it's unlikely that you'd have problems returning to the US either to visit or to work (provided of course you qualified for whatever sort of visa was necessary) but there is no guarantee - and having a US passport definitely provides that guarantee.

If you were planning on a longer move and expected to use your citizenship to obtain a green card for your spouse, be aware that you need 5 years' tax compliance before you can start the process.

At this point in time I would suggest the following: Do not renounce US citizenship. Do not renew the US passport or think about tax compliance until such time as you think you may need to work in the US. Do not inform any current or future banks about your US citizenship (i.e. use your Australian ID with Australian birthplace) so that you are not subject to any FATCA reporting.


----------



## Terrylovesyoghurt (Jan 14, 2019)

Thanks so much for your input guys.

Got a fair amount of thinking to do


----------



## sammygirl12 (Aug 29, 2019)

Terrylovesyoghurt said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Thanks very much!
> 
> ...


Just be aware that banks now asks for FACTA and that you have to declare you dual citizenship. This could result in a fine. The IRS will fine you in lump sums of 10K USD. Also issues arise with taxation on your estate in the future.


----------



## Nononymous (Jul 12, 2011)

sammygirl12 said:


> Just be aware that banks now asks for FACTA and that you have to declare you dual citizenship. This could result in a fine. The IRS will fine you in lump sums of 10K USD. Also issues arise with taxation on your estate in the future.


Could you be more specific, or provide examples of this happening?

FATCA compliance varies by country, but as I understand it, in Australia you can open an account with ID that does not show place of birth, and anyone so inclined can easily conceal US citizenship from their bank. Is there a specific fine for being caught doing this? In Canada there is not, beyond a general provision for $100 penalty against anyone who fails to provide requested information to the tax authorities (which is not the same thing as financial institutions).

The $10,000 IRS fine to which you refer is presumably for FBAR forms. There is no evidence that these fines are routinely administered to anyone who has not been compliant. Nor is there any evidence to date that the IRS is capable of using FATCA records to identify and penalize US persons who have not been filing FBAR forms. Finally, FBAR fines cannot be collected outside the US.

So all in all, staying off the FATCA radar and staying out of the US tax system remains a viable course of action. Furthermore, if it contains no US assets, the IRS cannot touch a foreign estate, which it most likely would not be aware of if the deceased had never filed US tax returns.


----------

