# Health Insurance for 77 year old Canadian?



## NoHealthInsurance

I was in the process of moving with my elderly mother to Mexico, Panama or a few other countries when I recently found out that I may not be able to find any health insurance company who will sell her insurance to be covered for emergency hospital care should anything serious happen to her while in these other countries. 

My mother is 77 years old and had a stroke 6 years ago but has slowly improved a bit since then and has never had another stroke or emergency situation since then. I take care of her myself to keep her out of a nursing home. I had hoped to move with her permanently out of canada or at least for 6 months a year at least in Mexico, panama, etc. but am not sure if this will even be possible anymore as I have not been able to find any health insurance company who will cover her at her age and with her having a stroke 6 years ago. 

My mother had a bad experience 6 years ago in Cuernavaca where she would snowbird with my father for the last 10 years for 6 months a year. They never bought health insurance for those years. In 2010 while in mexico she had a stroke and she was brought to a local hospital and stayed for only 2 weeks. She was in a coma for a short time and in the ICU and fed through a gtube, but because she had no health insurance my father was literally billed aprox $70,000 cdn which was his entire life savings, he was forced to put it on his credit card down there as well. I can never risk having this kind of exorbitant hospital bill being billed to her ever again as I could not afford such a bill, and my father has since passed away and my mother only receives a small pension and I will not risk putting her or myself in bankrupcy for an out of Canada emergency hospital bill. 

I do not want my mother to rot away in Canada until her death and had hoped to be able to move with her out of canada to a more warm climate such as mexico or panama or at least take her on trips out of canada to these places around 6 month a year, but if I can't find reasonable health insurance companies who will sell her full emergency hospital coverage then I am afraid I will have to permanently remain in Canada with her until she passes away, or risk another huge hospital bill which would take all of our remaining savings and putting us in bankruptcy. 

If anyone knows any seniors in similar situations as my mother and was able to get health insurance at age 77 or above would you please tell me the company and their contact info, especially if they had some prior health problem such as my mother had with her stroke. I really hope I can find some way to get her covered for another possible hospital stroke emergency outside of Canada, but I am not sure if it is possible anymore. 

Thank you


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## RVGRINGO

I understand your frustration, as a 78 year old who lived happily in Mexico for 13 years, until too many hospital visits forced us to move to the USA, where we have Medicare and the VA. Unfortunately, the higher cost of living is probably going to bankrupt us before we die, so we are wondering if we made the wrong decision. Maybe we should have stayed in Mexico and taken the chance of doing without the private hospitals by using only Seguro Popular.....a rather frightening thought, but so is the alternative in the USA. At least, as a Canadian, you do have the security of socialized medicine and the option of taking a few vacations to warmer climes for a few winter months. Is there a risk? Sure, but...........


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## lagoloo

After 70, it's almost impossible to get private health insurance in Mexico. The two public plans, IMSS and Seguro Popular, have been working well for many people. IMSS has a waiting period for covering pre-existing conditions, but Seguro Popular will take anyone. It sounds like this might work for you, so I'd suggest looking into it.
My spouse and I have IMSS coverage but have never used it. We pay out of pocket for our office visits, but IMSS is for a possible catastrophic event. The cost of both programs is very reasonable, especially Seguro Popular.


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## lagoloo

Sounds like you're getting really homesick, RV. My empathy.
As I told our OP, some people have had very satisfactory outcomes using S.P.
Much as I'd like to think otherwise, if you google around a bit, you'll find that although the U.S. has the highest COST of medical care, it's well down on the list for quality, world wide. Maybe you'd live longer, or at least happier, if you came "home".


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## Raypinciotti

What about this one.... ? plenitus.com.mx. 
My wife is Mexican I could have her call and find out for your mother's particular case.


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## ClinSpan

Getting private health insurance at a certain age can be tricky, anywhere in the world. I'd research local hospitals in Mexico (private and public) to see what kind of solutions they offer.


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## HolyMole

NoHealthInsurance said:


> I was in the process of moving with my elderly mother to Mexico, Panama or a few other countries when I recently found out that I may not be able to find any health insurance company who will sell her insurance to be covered for emergency hospital care should anything serious happen to her while in these other countries.
> 
> My mother is 77 years old and had a stroke 6 years ago but has slowly improved a bit since then and has never had another stroke or emergency situation since then. I take care of her myself to keep her out of a nursing home. I had hoped to move with her permanently out of canada or at least for 6 months a year at least in Mexico, panama, etc. but am not sure if this will even be possible anymore as I have not been able to find any health insurance company who will cover her at her age and with her having a stroke 6 years ago.
> 
> My mother had a bad experience 6 years ago in Cuernavaca where she would snowbird with my father for the last 10 years for 6 months a year. They never bought health insurance for those years. In 2010 while in mexico she had a stroke and she was brought to a local hospital and stayed for only 2 weeks. She was in a coma for a short time and in the ICU and fed through a gtube, but because she had no health insurance my father was literally billed aprox $70,000 cdn which was his entire life savings, he was forced to put it on his credit card down there as well. I can never risk having this kind of exorbitant hospital bill being billed to her ever again as I could not afford such a bill, and my father has since passed away and my mother only receives a small pension and I will not risk putting her or myself in bankrupcy for an out of Canada emergency hospital bill.
> 
> I do not want my mother to rot away in Canada until her death and had hoped to be able to move with her out of canada to a more warm climate such as mexico or panama or at least take her on trips out of canada to these places around 6 month a year, but if I can't find reasonable health insurance companies who will sell her full emergency hospital coverage then I am afraid I will have to permanently remain in Canada with her until she passes away, or risk another huge hospital bill which would take all of our remaining savings and putting us in bankruptcy.
> 
> If anyone knows any seniors in similar situations as my mother and was able to get health insurance at age 77 or above would you please tell me the company and their contact info, especially if they had some prior health problem such as my mother had with her stroke. I really hope I can find some way to get her covered for another possible hospital stroke emergency outside of Canada, but I am not sure if it is possible anymore.
> 
> Thank you


You haven't indicated in which Canadian province you reside, but I assume you are aware that your mother should be covered for up to 7 months (in B.C. and Ontario), in the calendar year, from the date she left her home province, up to the limits set by that province for each medical charge. Yes, those provincial limits will not cover all charges, but they will certainly cover a large portion of them.
(I'm one who believes that cases where Mexican doctor/hospital charges significantly exceed those that the province would cover are proof positive that there is a two-tiered price sytem for healthcare in Mexico: one for Mexican nationals and another for foreigners - and I'm referring here to the private system, not IMSS. But that's another issue.)
My ex-employer provides full healthcare coverage - up to $500,000 - anywhere in the world, for the first 40 days out of our home province. Beyond those 40 days, we're "on our own", since the costs for 6 months private coverage for our situations are prohibitive and out of the question. So, for the balance of the 6 months we're away each year, we keep our fingers crossed and hope that our B.C. Medicare would cover a large portion of any Mexican charges we might incurr. Fifteen or so years ago, when Mrs. H. broke her arm in Puerto Vallarta and was treated at two different private PV hospitals, B.C. Medicare covered all the charges. 
The 5 or 6 days we spend travelling through the USA on our way home are the real scary ones. Medical charges in the States are unbelievable and should be a source of shame and outrage for all Americans. 
Now I'll get off my soapbox.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

NoHealthInsurance said:


> I was in the process of moving with my elderly mother to Mexico, Panama or a few other countries when I recently found out that I may not be able to find any health insurance company who will sell her insurance to be covered for emergency hospital care should anything serious happen to her while in these other countries.
> 
> My mother is 77 years old and had a stroke 6 years ago but has slowly improved a bit since then and has never had another stroke or emergency situation since then. I take care of her myself to keep her out of a nursing home. I had hoped to move with her permanently out of canada or at least for 6 months a year at least in Mexico, panama, etc. but am not sure if this will even be possible anymore as I have not been able to find any health insurance company who will cover her at her age and with her having a stroke 6 years ago.
> 
> My mother had a bad experience 6 years ago in Cuernavaca where she would snowbird with my father for the last 10 years for 6 months a year. They never bought health insurance for those years. In 2010 while in mexico she had a stroke and she was brought to a local hospital and stayed for only 2 weeks. She was in a coma for a short time and in the ICU and fed through a gtube, but because she had no health insurance my father was literally billed aprox $70,000 cdn which was his entire life savings, he was forced to put it on his credit card down there as well. I can never risk having this kind of exorbitant hospital bill being billed to her ever again as I could not afford such a bill, and my father has since passed away and my mother only receives a small pension and I will not risk putting her or myself in bankrupcy for an out of Canada emergency hospital bill.
> 
> I do not want my mother to rot away in Canada until her death and had hoped to be able to move with her out of canada to a more warm climate such as mexico or panama or at least take her on trips out of canada to these places around 6 month a year, but if I can't find reasonable health insurance companies who will sell her full emergency hospital coverage then I am afraid I will have to permanently remain in Canada with her until she passes away, or risk another huge hospital bill which would take all of our remaining savings and putting us in bankruptcy.
> 
> If anyone knows any seniors in similar situations as my mother and was able to get health insurance at age 77 or above would you please tell me the company and their contact info, especially if they had some prior health problem such as my mother had with her stroke. I really hope I can find some way to get her covered for another possible hospital stroke emergency outside of Canada, but I am not sure if it is possible anymore.
> 
> Thank you


I don't know Canada, but if she maintains a legal address, maybe a relative's house, would she eligible for Canadian health care? I don't even know if your free system has different systems for workers and retired people, but even so, perhaps you can find a place to live in Mexico near an international airport.

Isn't there a traveler's insurance only for getting a sick person back to his/her own country? That would be good to get, though they may have age limits.

Even if emergency travel insurance is not available, then you could get her a regular doctor in Mexico, which costs far, far less than in America, anyway, and use emergency hospital care only to stabilize to the point where she can fly back to Canada.


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## AlanMexicali

lagoloo said:


> After 70, it's almost impossible to get private health insurance in Mexico. The two public plans, IMSS and Seguro Popular, have been working well for many people. IMSS has a waiting period for covering pre-existing conditions, but Seguro Popular will take anyone. It sounds like this might work for you, so I'd suggest looking into it.
> My spouse and I have IMSS coverage but have never used it. We pay out of pocket for our office visits, but IMSS is for a possible catastrophic event. The cost of both programs is very reasonable, especially Seguro Popular.


IMSS will exclude you from joining for some chronic diseases. They have a 6 month, 1 year , 2 year and 3 year waiting period on other chronic diseases and treatments and operations needed, It depends on what condition you are in when applying. 


From the IMSS website: 

Exclusions to join, 

Google Translation: 

"• not subject to insurance people who have: malignant tumors, chronic degenerative diseases (late complications of diabetes mellitus), diseases: Hoarding (Gaucher disease), chronic liver disease, kidney failure: • Some pre-existing, such as illness chronic valvular heart disease, heart failure, sequelae of ischemic heart disease (arrhythmia, angina or myocardial infarction), chronic obstructive pulmonary disease with respiratory failure, among others
• chronic systemic connective tissue diseases, addictions like alcoholism and other substance abuse, mental disorders such as psychosis and dementia; congenital and acquired immunodeficiency syndrome or Human Immunodeficiency Virus positive of diseases (HIV)" 



Asegura a tu familia para que puedan recibir servicios médicos en el IMSS.

It also states there is a minmum of 2 family members to join. 

"Individual must be at least 2 people, the head of the family group and your immediate family, as spouse or concubine , children, father, mother, or your additional family members, such as grandparents, grandchildren, siblings, cousins, children of siblings, siblings of parents. If you are the owner of the family group and if you reside abroad, you can also purchase this insurance for your family." 

Seguro Popular takes legal residents of Mexico. Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente and anyone, any age can join with any pre-medical conditions and only about 2% of the 49,000,000 members pay an annual fee or pay on the 3 year contract for their family. Renters and people without a vehicle do not pay.


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## Isla Verde

AlanMexicali said:


> It also states there is a minmum of 2 family members to join.


I know several expats who are single and were able to purchase health insurance from IMSS.


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## AlanMexicali

Isla Verde said:


> I know several expats who are single and were able to purchase health insurance from IMSS.


I asked my wife about that. She guesses because the emphasis is on family units at all Mexican socalized medicine institutes that this rule or policy is there to keep the family unit together. That being the case I might guess if one spouse doesn´t qualify for the IMSS but can join the Seguro Popular then the family unity is broken up. If the spouse doesn´t qualify for the IMSS but the other spouse does this rule seems to be in place from keeping the spouse that does qualify from joining and forces both to joing the Seguro Popular instead of one with the IMSS and one with the Seguro Popular.

She also gueses it doesn´t apply to widows/widowers or single people. This rule hasn´t been around for a long time as far as I can figure out.

Another thing some people don´t seem to realize is that a complete physical should be done when joing the IMSS to start a file and determine if the information you put on your application is true and correct regarding pre-existing chronic diseases.

Asegura a tu familia para que puedan recibir servicios médicos en el IMSS.

Google Translation: 

"• In any case, the IMSS will make full or partial repayment of the payments made, so it is very important that all information provided is correct and complete, especially referring to pre-existing conditions."

Some people have joined, not disclosed their real condition on their application and paid for years and have never been in to get service. Then when they do finally go in have been diagnosed with chronic disease which disqualifies them from treatment and got thrown out. This has happened to several or more Expats in Chapala where a faciltator purposely joined people up with chronic conditions where they did not disclose that condition and did get thrown out after they finally went in and were diagnosed.


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## AlanMexicali

Another reason for thar rule might be if the spouse is a member of another Mexican socilaized medical plan like Pemex or the ISSSTE it would encourage the other spouse to stay with them as they have no pre-existing medical condition exclusions.


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## NoHealthInsurance

*update*

pffff well i wanted to give an update for anyone interested in knowing. I was in Panama with my mother up to a few days after I wrote my first post, and they refused to sell my mother any coverage there. I then checked canadian and us companies and could not find anything that would cover her over the age of 74. So I was forced to cut our trip and return to canada otherwise I was at risk of loosing our whole life savings if something happened. I have been searching for brokers in canada and found one yesterday, he has an expat option he knows about through AIG, but guess how much it would cost per year? $37,000. I am about to throw up, with the highest deductable of $10,000 I could get it down 40% to just over $20,000 per year. Myg man, brutal.


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## ojosazules11

NoHealthInsurance said:


> pffff well i wanted to give an update for anyone interested in knowing. I was in Panama with my mother up to a few days after I wrote my first post, and they refused to sell my mother any coverage there. I then checked canadian and us companies and could not find anything that would cover her over the age of 74. So I was forced to cut our trip and return to canada otherwise I was at risk of loosing our whole life savings if something happened. I have been searching for brokers in canada and found one yesterday, he has an expat option he knows about through AIG, but guess how much it would cost per year? $37,000. I am about to throw up, with the highest deductable of $10,000 I could get it down 40% to just over $20,000 per year. Myg man, brutal.


Wow, that is brutal. Have you checked with your provincial Ministry of Health about what can be covered out of country? In Ontario OHIP will cover physician fees for medical emergencies up to the amount that would be paid in Canada. The amount for Emerg visits and inpatient coverage is outlined below. The reason it's important to have additional insurance if travelling to the US is because the costs will generally far exceed what the same service would cost in Canada. I would think that in Mexico the differential would be less. Of course under this scenario you cannot be out of the country for more than 212 days (7 months) per year (for Ontario) or you lose OHIP coverage. 

Here are the fees covered by OHIP for emergency out-of-country medical costs. I wonder if any expats on the forum have information on how much it might cost per day as an inpatient. I know last year when I took my mother-in-law to Emerg in Cuautla, it was very reasonable. All in (IV, blood tests, an X-Ray, physician services) it was incredibly reasonable. I don't remember the exact amount, but I recall it was under $50. 

_For physician services, OHIP will pay the actual cost billed by the out-of-country physician(s) or the cost of the same physician service(s) in Ontario, whichever is less. Physician services in Ontario are usually rendered at a significantly lower cost than those billed at out-of-country health facilities. Please note that out-of-country health facilities and physicians usually bill separately.
For outpatient emergency room services, OHIP will pay $50 Canadian (CDN) per day.
For inpatient services, OHIP will pay $200 CDN per day. If the services are inpatient services rendered in an operating room, coronary care unit, intensive care unit, neonatal or pediatric special care unit, then OHIP will pay at the higher rate of $400 CDN per day for hospital services._

_For outpatient dialysis services, OHIP will pay $210 CDN per day.
The "per day" rates listed above cover all hospital inpatient services including, but not limited to, accommodation, meals, prescription drugs, surgically implanted devices and nursing services.

Note: OHIP does not pay for ambulance services, transportation costs, or out-of-hospital food/accommodation/drugs or prescriptions._

Here's a link to the webpage:
Travelling Outside Canada - Ontario Health Insurance (OHIP) - Publications - Public Information - MOHLTC


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## Howler

*Am I Seeing this Correctly...?*



Raypinciotti said:


> What about this one.... ? *plenitus.com.mx*. (Planes: Cobertura médica para mayores de 60 años).
> My wife is Mexican I could have her call and find out for your mother's particular case.


Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I've been doing research into IMSS, Seguro Popular and other Mexican health plans. Plentus was suggested in the post above (I added the link), and I have to wonder if this was done as a joke...? If I read correctly on the website, coverage plans are available for approximately *$396,666* / *$103,888* / *$51,944* (US @ $18 MXP avg per dollar) - ...are you kidding??

I can only assume the amounts for the plans are one-time charges, but that is still waaaaaayyy more than anything I'd consider reasonable for the "average" person looking for medical coverage, especially as a retiree.

Any other feedback on this plan?


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## horseshoe846

Howler said:


> Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I've been doing research into IMSS, Seguro Popular and other Mexican health plans. Plentus was suggested in the post above (I added the link), and I have to wonder if this was done as a joke...? If I read correctly on the website, coverage plans are available for approximately *$396,666* / *$103,888* / *$51,944* (US @ $18 MXP avg per dollar) - ...are you kidding??
> 
> I can only assume the amounts for the plans are one-time charges, but that is still waaaaaayyy more than anything I'd consider reasonable for the "average" person looking for medical coverage, especially as a retiree.
> 
> Any other feedback on this plan?


I think you are misreading their info. Those numbers must be the amount of coverage and not the cost of that coverage.


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## Howler

*Oh..... (still more questions)*



horseshoe846 said:


> I think you are misreading their info. Those numbers must be the amount of coverage and not the cost of that coverage.


Thanks Horseshoe - you can tell I'm quite the novice at understanding this type of info... all the more reason for resorting to you & the forum for help or protection from myself.

Okay, those figures representing the limits of coverage is more reasonable. I guess the only way to get a ballpark figure of personal cost is to fill out the profile / questionaire under the "cotiza" tab. Will hold my breath & give it a try...

Still, is there anybody else on here who has this coverage or knowledge of it? How do you feel about the quality & thoroughness of their service?


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## TundraGreen

IMSS costs me about $6000 or $7000 pesos/year. It goes up slowly every year and I think it jumped when I passed 70 years of age.


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## horseshoe846

TundraGreen said:


> IMSS costs me about $6000 or $7000 pesos/year. It goes up slowly every year and I think it jumped when I passed 70 years of age.


Here's the rates for 2017.

Rango de edad	Cuota Anual
0-19	$ 2,700
20-29	$ 3,200
30-39	$ 3,400
40-49	$ 4,750
50-59	$ 5,050
60-69	$ 7,300
70-79	$ 7,650
80 y más	$ 7,700


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## horseshoe846

A while back someone suggested I look into "Christian Healthcare Ministries" (you can find it using google). I never did look into it...


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## Howler

*Yep... it sounds like we gotta get movin'*

Thanks guys! I'm still going through other threads & posts I found with the search function. You're input on any questions I have in those threads will also be most appreciated!!

One thing I've become convinced of, is that if/once I decide on a particular plan - we'd better get in high gear & make for "south of the border"... I turn 60 yrs old in about 3 hours!


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## TundraGreen

Howler said:


> Thanks guys! I'm still going through other threads & posts I found with the search function. You're input on any questions I have in those threads will also be most appreciated!!
> 
> One thing I've become convinced of, is that if/once I decide on a particular plan - we'd better get in high gear & make for "south of the border"... I turn 60 yrs old in about 3 hours!


Happy Birthday.


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## mattoleriver

Howler,
aren't you retired military? Would Tricare work for you?
HBTY, HBTY, HBDH, HBTY!arty:
matt


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## Howler

*Hey-Ho, Hoo-Ah!!*



mattoleriver said:


> Howler,
> aren't you retired military? Would Tricare work for you?
> HBTY, HBTY, HBDH, HBTY!arty:
> matt


Yep, retired military & disabled! However - TriCare, VA nor MediCare will work for me while in Mexico. I would have to be NOB to be able to receive care under each or all of those systems. Hence, the search for something that will work with my condition (and age) in Mexico.

Maybe by the time I'm done going through all the information I can make a "stickie" for the forum to avoid a lot of repeat questions in the future... 

(Thanks for the birthday wish... 18 minutes to go!)


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## RVGRINGO

Now that you are 60, the fun really begins. I was fine until that age, then I started the 20 year slide to my present condition. What a difference! I still want to do everything that I used to do, but just have to accept the fact that those days are long gone. 
So......enjoy what you can, when you can, and have as many more birthdays as are comfortable.


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## Isla Verde

Howler said:


> One thing I've become convinced of, is that if/once I decide on a particular plan - we'd better get in high gear & make for "south of the border"... I turn 60 yrs old in about 3 hours!


Belated Happy Birthday to a fellow Cancerian! ¡Feliz cumpleaños, que cumplas muchos más!


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## ojosazules11

Isla Verde said:


> Belated Happy Birthday to a fellow Cancerian! ¡Feliz cumpleaños, que cumplas muchos más!


And Happy Belated Birthday to you, Isla! I think you celebrated a few days ago yourself, right?


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## Isla Verde

ojosazules11 said:


> And Happy Belated Birthday to you, Isla! I think you celebrated a few days ago yourself, right?


Yup. Turned 72  on July 8. I have since recovered and am now doing better than ever!


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## RVGRINGO

Glad to hear that you are recovered and still getting older; but, no matter how hard you try, you cannot catch up to us old folks........until we stop. Then, just hop on over and keep on going. Buena suerte.


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## Howler

*Cool Coincident!!*



Isla Verde said:


> Yup. Turned 72  on July 8. I have since recovered and am now doing better than ever!


Cool IV!! My firstbord (daughter) was born on the 8th as an early birthday present for me! I had been in Honduras with the Army Reserve and sent my wife to Mexico to be with family & fellow nurses, mentors & doctors that she had worked with before marrying me. I managed to get there, just barely, the day before she was born...

Again, Happy Birthday to you, too!! arty::cheer2:


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## Isla Verde

Howler said:


> Cool IV!! My firstbord (daughter) was born on the 8th as an early birthday present for me! I had been in Honduras with the Army Reserve and sent my wife to Mexico to be with family & fellow nurses, mentors & doctors that she had worked with before marrying me. I managed to get there, just barely, the day before she was born...
> 
> Again, Happy Birthday to you, too!! arty::cheer2:


Thanks, Howler! You're so lucky to have a daughter whose birthday is July 8, when only the nicest people are born.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos

lagoloo said:


> Sounds like you're getting really homesick, RV. My empathy.
> As I told our OP, some people have had very satisfactory outcomes using S.P.
> Much as I'd like to think otherwise, if you google around a bit, you'll find that although the U.S. has the highest COST of medical care, it's well down on the list for quality, world wide. Maybe you'd live longer, or at least happier, if you came "home".


Think you're wrong on several points. Costs? You're confusing insurance costs with what inhabitants of single payer countries pay in taxes.

I agree that lacking good insurance is a U.S. problem, but if you have it, as 80% do, you'll get best health care in world, with global cutting edge innovations introduced in US first because companies can make money by risking capital for research.

Of course, no American would accept waiting time for elective or even life saving operations/treatments that are common in single payer places, why well off Canadians regularly go to U.S, for treatment.

People with insurance get same top rated care as rich (well, rich usually insist on paying more to some doc with reputations to set themselves apart from we commoners."

Where do wealthy go when they have serious health problems: US or private London care. That's it. Where do poor with conditions untreatable in their homeland come when they get attention of charities or media - U.S. Treatment is unparalleled.

Try reading British press and problems with their NHS - long waits, doctor strikes, age cut-offs for certain life saving treatments.

And hospital stays usually mean in wards with 20 people lined up side by side, In America, a hospital patient feels deprived if he must share a room with one person.

And look at the ongoing tragedy with that British baby. U.S. hospital offering to treat him for free with new technology not available in UK, but a judge, not parents, saying Brit doctors have right to shut off life support. I understand U.S. doctor flying to London to testify before judge, but what a cold-blooded system that gives doctors final say to let baby die, not parents. That's 1984 stuff.

I agree US system is a mess, but just as democracy, it's better than all the other messes.


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## Isla Verde

So what's the health care system like in Thailand?


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## lagoloo

I disagree with almost everything Meritorious alleges, but there's no point in going into detail about it.

Re the question of "cost", though: The U.S. *cost* of medical care in the highest in the world, according to the World Health Organization. Where are the sources that disagree?


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## citlali

For the price we get better care in France especially in Paris where the doctors compete than in the States. In the Province you have to wait much more than in Paris and the system is not as flexible as the doctors want to work in Paris rather than in the country.


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## horseshoe846

Here is another case - after 4 pages of comments what conclusions can be drawn ?


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## lagoloo

OUI? Bet more U.S. doctors would rather work in San Francisco than in Turlock, too.


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## Raypinciotti

horseshoe846 said:


> Here is another case - after 4 pages of comments what conclusions can be drawn ?


I will say IMSS. 

After having a family member die in Mexico, I would say that for EMERGENCIES, IMHO , Seguro Popular covers fewer things than IMSS, for example some medicines required by surgeons Seguro Popular will send your family members to buy them at a high cost while IMSS will cover them. Another example, burn victims, IMSS will cover 100 % of surgeries but Seguro Popular only covers 100% of certain type of burns , the very serious ones they will cover a percentage but not all. 

But so you know, in seguro popular you will see the same doctors, will be admitted in the same hospitals and get the same treatment. With IMSS you have a few more choices of hospitals, you just pay a little more upfront vs with Seguro Popular in which if you require something the hospital doesn't have or your insurance doesn't cover you have to pay out of pocket. That's without a doubt what happened in our case. 

HOWEVER, the end cost with Seguro Popular is not super high, I swear. We paid like 20,000 pesos for a month stay at the hospital and 5 surgeries. So, it boils down to your choice. Another thing to consider is to have a blood donor available, Mexico doesn't have enough voluntary donors, and they treat blood like is pure gold, so they request that you bring a family member to give blood to you. They WILL delay your surgery if you don't have a donor. So, if you are alone in Mexico make several friends with your same blood type, free from hepatitis and aids.

So, as far as coverage during an actual emergency I think IMSS is a better bet. But for regular doctor visits you should find a good private doctor. It is just smarter, easier and it is cheap, it will save you headaches. Doctors in any public hospital in Mexico are truly overworked. So it is just smart to have all of your checkups done by someone who actually had a good night sleep . 

I would still have a backup plan to come to the US for treatment of something major. Nothing against Mexico and their healthcare. I do kind of a reverse thing, I don't go to Mexico for cheap healthcare, I go to the US for the expensive healthcare. I still go to the US for dental care. It's my body we are talking about, I am not cheap when it comes to that.


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## lagoloo

"I would still have a backup plan to come to the US for treatment of something major. Nothing against Mexico and their healthcare. "

HUH? How about giving us a reason for that contradictory statement?
You must have something serious against Mexican health care if you're ready to undergo the expense and trouble of going to the U.S. for "something major".

Also, people need to be aware that blood donors not only need to be free of disease: they also must not be over a certain age: I think it's 60 or 65.


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## horseshoe846

lagoloo said:


> "I would still have a backup plan to come to the US for treatment of something major. Nothing against Mexico and their healthcare. "
> 
> HUH? How about giving us a reason for that contradictory statement?
> You must have something serious against Mexican health care if you're ready to undergo the expense and trouble of going to the U.S. for "something major".
> 
> Also, people need to be aware that blood donors not only need to be free of disease: they also must not be over a certain age: I think it's 60 or 65.


I think you can donate blood until 65 or 70. I self-donated this year at age 62. I believe the blood is 'good' for 6 months.

As an aside - the first year we were here there was a bad hurricane in Acapulco and we went looking for ways to volunteer our help. We tried to donate blood and the Red Cross wouldn't take it because we had not been in Mexico for a year.


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## lagoloo

You were 62 when you donated blood. I just checked the web and the cutoff age is 65, along with other restrictions.
Donating Blood In Mexico | The Baja Citizen

And how about that other question? The one about returning to the States for anything major?


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## horseshoe846

lagoloo said:


> You were 62 when you donated blood. I just checked the web and the cutoff age is 65, along with other restrictions.
> Donating Blood In Mexico | The Baja Citizen
> 
> And how about that other question? The one about returning to the States for anything major?


I think if you self-donate blood you are handled a little differently. I really think you get until the age of 70. The process at IMSS was much longer than 2 hours (for me anyway). They took a small sample to test. While that was being processed they took advantage of the captive audience to hold short health-related classses. Not mentioned in your article was abstinance from alcohol for (I believe) 72 hours beforehand. I got a lecture when I said I had some red wine with lunch the day before - but the doctor ok'd me anyway. I was also told to take my bp medication as normal with a small sip of water.

The surgery I had earlier this year at IMSS was really a trial balloon of sorts. It went well enough that I think IMSS is plenty good enough for me - and depending - my wife as well. 

To be honest - I think there is a pretty good chance we will never return to the States for anything - period. We have no close family left there. Our last 3 trips to the US were to eat at our old favorite places and shopping. Maybe if we were close enough to the border to drive-in we might consider that - but it is such a pain to fly into the US anymore.


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## lagoloo

I guess you know something about age limits on donating blood that none of the articles I found on Google are aware of, but enough of that.

On returning to the U.S. for just about anything at all: no thanks. This is home. Flying has become a nightmare and it's a long, long way to drive.


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## Bobbyb

I know this is an old thread but holey moley should a little closer at how Canadians are covered while out of the country. Every province is different but most have limits on what is covered. An emergency room visit might get $50. Some provinces pay $100 a night for hospital. Some do not cover drugs. BC, Saskatchewan and the maritimes are the worst. So if the posters mother had to go to a private clinic or hospital the bills would exceed what Canada pays. Unless his mother returned to Canada for 4 to 6 months she would then be with zero coverage.


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## HolyMole

Bobbyb said:


> I know this is an old thread but holey moley should a little closer at how Canadians are covered while out of the country. Every province is different but most have limits on what is covered. An emergency room visit might get $50. Some provinces pay $100 a night for hospital. Some do not cover drugs. BC, Saskatchewan and the maritimes are the worst. So if the posters mother had to go to a private clinic or hospital the bills would exceed what Canada pays. Unless his mother returned to Canada for 4 to 6 months she would then be with zero coverage.


An old thread indeed! I assume I'm the "holey moley" to whom you are referring. My only contribution to this thread was dated 2 March/16, and I see nothing in that post that was incorrect, or that has changed. Provinces will pay for out-of-province healthcare expenses up to the limits they would pay, had the expenses been incurred in that province. How those levels of home-province coverage would compare to those charged by, for example, a private hospital in Mexico, is anyone's guess. British Columbia and Ontario cover expenses incurred up to 210 days after leaving the home province. Beyond that period, you're on your own. 

Our own situation has changed since March/16. Due to healthcare concerns, we can no longer spend our usual 6 months in Mexico, but are limited to the "40 days out of home province" full coverage that my retirement benefits provides. In addition to the limited medical care available in our favourite spot in Mexico, (Zihuatanejo, Guerrero), we simply cannot risk total financial ruin should we incur healthcare expenses in the USA that occurred outside our 40 day window. Even holidaying in Zihua within that 40 day window is a risk, due to their limited or inadequate medical facilities.....at least for the kind of medical services we would likely require.

As an aside, it's not unusual to read posts suggesting that if one becomes ill in Mexico, the solution is to have purchased air evacuation insurance, or, if not, to simply jump on a plane back to the States or Canada. If only it was that simple. Unfortunately, if one is ill enough to consider flying home, they are often too ill to fly....or the airlines won't accept you...or the Mexican doctors won't authorize air travel.....or your air evacuation insurer drags their heels, or..........


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## lagoloo

I understand that the air Evac companies will not fly people until they have been "stabilized"... in Mexico. That covers a lot. Might as well stay put with doctors you know and your other support systems. Probably way cheaper as well.


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## Bobbyb

Holeymole: I am so sorry to read of your health woes. It's horrible when one is older and the insurance companies no longer want you as a customer. I must tell you that many of us have been fooled by our Canadian Medical system. Tommy Douglas is very tired of turning over in his grave! The System was supposed to be National. Your care would be available in any Province. It was not to be exclusive. Instead the system is controlled by each province and although some will accept a card from another Province some do not. We were supposed to be able to opt out and purchase private insurance. Drs. were supposed to be able to opt out and do procedures outside the system. Not so. Some Provinces do NOT pay for medical acre at the same rate as what they pay Hospitals and Drs. in Canada. A few years ago DRs. in Manitoba were paid a pittance for complicated surgeries. They could not get an agreement from the Province. Instead the Province created a supplement pool of $$. The Drs would still get that low pay for the surgery but then they got a large lumps sum to make the payment realistic. BUT if a citizen goes to Mexico ( or anywhere else) he cannot get that lump sum. Only the basic. We had an insurance claim and it took a long time to be paid. I had to pay the hospital in Mexico. When I was reimbursed I also had to get the basic$$ from the Province. The operation was around $16,000. The surgeon got $1600 from the province and the rest came from my Private Insurance. Regardless it is not right that we work hard all our lives and when it comes to retirement travel is restricted due to the lack of better health care from Canada!!! My rant for today!


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## Isla Verde

Bobbyb said:


> Holeymole: I am so sorry to read of your health woes. It's horrible when one is older and the insurance companies no longer want you as a customer. I must tell you that many of us have been fooled by our Canadian Medical system. Tommy Douglas is very tired of turning over in his grave! The System was supposed to be National. Your care would be available in any Province. It was not to be exclusive. Instead the system is controlled by each province and although some will accept a card from another Province some do not. We were supposed to be able to opt out and purchase private insurance. Drs. were supposed to be able to opt out and do procedures outside the system. Not so. Some Provinces do NOT pay for medical acre at the same rate as what they pay Hospitals and Drs. in Canada. A few years ago DRs. in Manitoba were paid a pittance for complicated surgeries. They could not get an agreement from the Province. Instead the Province created a supplement pool of $$. The Drs would still get that low pay for the surgery but then they got a large lumps sum to make the payment realistic. BUT if a citizen goes to Mexico ( or anywhere else) he cannot get that lump sum. Only the basic. We had an insurance claim and it took a long time to be paid. I had to pay the hospital in Mexico. When I was reimbursed I also had to get the basic$$ from the Province. The operation was around $16,000. The surgeon got $1600 from the province and the rest came from my Private Insurance. Regardless it is not right that we work hard all our lives and when it comes to retirement travel is restricted due to the lack of better health care from Canada!!! My rant for today!


Canadians still get a better deal than do Americans living abroad, who get no help at all from their government with paying medical expenses incurred when they are out of the country!


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## HolyMole

Bobbyb said:


> Holeymole: I am so sorry to read of your health woes. It's horrible when one is older and the insurance companies no longer want you as a customer. I must tell you that many of us have been fooled by our Canadian Medical system. Tommy Douglas is very tired of turning over in his grave! The System was supposed to be National. Your care would be available in any Province. It was not to be exclusive. Instead the system is controlled by each province and although some will accept a card from another Province some do not. We were supposed to be able to opt out and purchase private insurance. Drs. were supposed to be able to opt out and do procedures outside the system. Not so. Some Provinces do NOT pay for medical acre at the same rate as what they pay Hospitals and Drs. in Canada. A few years ago DRs. in Manitoba were paid a pittance for complicated surgeries. They could not get an agreement from the Province. Instead the Province created a supplement pool of $$. The Drs would still get that low pay for the surgery but then they got a large lumps sum to make the payment realistic. BUT if a citizen goes to Mexico ( or anywhere else) he cannot get that lump sum. Only the basic. We had an insurance claim and it took a long time to be paid. I had to pay the hospital in Mexico. When I was reimbursed I also had to get the basic$$ from the Province. The operation was around $16,000. The surgeon got $1600 from the province and the rest came from my Private Insurance. Regardless it is not right that we work hard all our lives and when it comes to retirement travel is restricted due to the lack of better health care from Canada!!! My rant for today!


I guess we've been fortunate, so I can't agree with your criticisms of our Canadian medicare system. We married in 1969, a year after Medicare came into effect. Since then, we've raised two children, helped raise a grandchild and a great-grandson. We've had our share of injuries, surgeries and emergencies, including prostate cancer for me and several by-pass surgeries for my wife. Our healthcare system has never once let us down or short-changed us. As for out-of-country medical expenses, I think 210 days coverage, (for British Columbia residents) at rates comparable to what would be paid at home is fair. You want more coverage, you'll have to pay for it. Especially, our system can't be expected to try to keep up with out-of-control and wildly excessive U.S. medical costs.
A dozen years ago, Mrs. HolyMole fractured her elbow in Puerto Vallarta. British Columbia reimbursed us for every penny that the two PV hospitals and two PV doctors charged us, (x-rays, cast on...too tight...cast off, sling made, etc). Of course we had to pay "up front" and claim reimbursement later........I don't blame the province one bit for not wanting to have to deal with the inevitable hassle of arguing billing with a Mexican hospital.
I praise our Medicare every chance I get.

ps I've never had any interest in "opting out" of the system, or in patronizing any doctor who chose to do so. In fact, I've always strongly opposed any measure that would allow opting-out, for patients or for doctors. When Medicare was being introduced, there were a number of doctors who, realizing that there would actually be some controls on their ability to become overnight millionaires, threatened to move to the States. A few actually did so. My response, and the response of most Canadians, was "good riddance".


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## ojosazules11

HolyMole said:


> I guess we've been fortunate, so I can't agree with your criticisms of our Canadian medicare system. We married in 1969, a year after Medicare came into effect. Since then, we've raised two children, helped raise a grandchild and a great-grandson. We've had our share of injuries, surgeries and emergencies, including prostate cancer for me and several by-pass surgeries for my wife. Our healthcare system has never once let us down or short-changed us. As for out-of-country medical expenses, I think 210 days coverage, (for British Columbia residents) at rates comparable to what would be paid at home is fair. You want more coverage, you'll have to pay for it. Especially, our system can't be expected to try to keep up with out-of-control and wildly excessive U.S. medical costs.
> A dozen years ago, Mrs. HolyMole fractured her elbow in Puerto Vallarta. British Columbia reimbursed us for every penny that the two PV hospitals and two PV doctors charged us, (x-rays, cast on...too tight...cast off, sling made, etc). Of course we had to pay "up front" and claim reimbursement later........I don't blame the province one bit for not wanting to have to deal with the inevitable hassle of arguing billing with a Mexican hospital.
> I praise our Medicare every chance I get.
> 
> ps I've never had any interest in "opting out" of the system, or in patronizing any doctor who chose to do so. In fact, I've always strongly opposed any measure that would allow opting-out, for patients or for doctors. When Medicare was being introduced, there were a number of doctors who, realizing that there would actually be some controls on their ability to become overnight millionaires, threatened to move to the States. A few actually did so. My response, and the response of most Canadians, was "good riddance".


As a doctor working within Canada's (Ontario) publicly funded medical system, I couldn't agree with you more. There are many doctors like me who are fiercely dedicated to preserving a medical system which is single-payer and universal, and who consider health care as a basic human right. 

In Ontario, a person's health coverage remains valid as long as they are out of the country no more than 212 days in any 12 month period. I figure when I retire I'll spend 6 months in Canada and 6 months in Mexico, leaving me an extra month of wiggle room for out of country travel. Here is what the Ontario government (OHIP) will reimburse for out of country expenses:
------------------------------------------
*Doctor services*
OHIP will pay whichever of the following is less:
- the actual amount billed by doctor(s) who treated you outside Canada
- rates listed in and paid to Ontario physicians in the Ontario Schedule of Benefits for Physicians Services

*Emergency outpatient services*
OHIP will pay whichever of the following is less:
- up to $50 (Canadian) per day
- the amount billed by the hospital
*
Emergency inpatient services*
OHIP will pay up to:
- $400 (Canadian) per day for services provided in:
- an operating room
- a coronary care unit
- an intensive care unit
- a neonatal or pediatric special care unit

- $200 (Canadian) per day for lower levels of care

*We recommend that you buy private health insurance before leaving Ontario to cover any uninsured services you may need.* _(bolding mine)_
---------------------------------------

Obviously the reimbursement rates will go a lot further in Mexico than in the US. If getting additional health insurance, be sure to read the fine print. I have one patient who travels to the US for an extended period every winter. She always requests if possible to not make any adjustments to her medication in the 6 months prior to her leaving, as that would give the insurer a loop-hole to not cover pre-existing conditions (if medication is adjusted, the condition is not considered "stable").


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## Zorro2017

A Google Maps screen shot of the line at one of our local IMSS hospitals, waiting room full, line spilling outside.


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## citlali

You should have a picture of the emergency room inside. Friends of mine turned over their truck and the boy was hurt. I took him to an IMSS /Seguro Popular clinic in a small town in Chiapas 2 hours from the accident.. no ambulance , no x ray machine.. where we had the accident , no clinic no doctor on weekends, the local gave pox, their alcohol.. to all of us which did miracles to get rid off the shake.. They were all teetotalers evangelists but it worked on them too..


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## Zorro2017

We are looking at a private policy for my wife but only have a choice of 5 or 20 million pesos with nothing in between. I think that 5 million pesos should be adequate but my wife is not sure, the average cost of even cancer treatments seems to be reasonable here.

If you take a look at Placidway, you can see that the average price for a cancer treatment around the world is $6,450. Considering this, one might assume that cancer treatments are not that expensive, however, if you look at the most expensive treatment package available, you will see that it costs $329,550. That amount of money will give you a Bone Marrow Transplant in the United States. The cheapest treatment listing on our website is just $15 for Chemotherapy in Mexico. The average price shows us that, even though there are really expensive cancer treatments out there, the majority of treatments around the world are not as expensive, and good, reliable, quality cancer treatment can be found at reduced prices, only if you look hard enough.

https://www.placidway.com/article/2051/The-Cost-of-Cancer-Treatment-Abroad


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## HolyMole

Zorro2017 said:


> We are looking at a private policy for my wife but only have a choice of 5 or 20 million pesos with nothing in between. I think that 5 million pesos should be adequate but my wife is not sure, the average cost of even cancer treatments seems to be reasonable here.
> 
> If you take a look at Placidway, you can see that the average price for a cancer treatment around the world is $6,450. Considering this, one might assume that cancer treatments are not that expensive, however, if you look at the most expensive treatment package available, you will see that it costs $329,550. That amount of money will give you a Bone Marrow Transplant in the United States. The cheapest treatment listing on our website is just $15 for Chemotherapy in Mexico. The average price shows us that, even though there are really expensive cancer treatments out there, the majority of treatments around the world are not as expensive, and good, reliable, quality cancer treatment can be found at reduced prices, only if you look hard enough.
> 
> https://www.placidway.com/article/2051/The-Cost-of-Cancer-Treatment-Abroad


I haven't read the entire Placidway article, but question the value of quoting price ranges of treatment options as $109 - $100,000 (Turkey) or $650 - $250,000 (Germany). That's like saying the average price for a car is $30,000, then showing a range of $8500 (Nissan Micra/March) to $180,000 (Maserati). Not much help.

As an aside, when reproducing an entire paragraph from an article, it's customary to enclose it in quotation marks.


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