# practical advice for moving to Spain



## sistersibling (Jul 3, 2013)

Hello all! I have spent a couple of hours on the forum now, and I have a few practical questions to ask regarding moving to Spain. Let me first start by stating that the major reason for my wanting to move is that I have been in a romantic relationship with a Spanish man who was living in Texas and has now had to go back to Valencia due to work conflicts. I'm a musician and work in a hotel as a barista in a coffee shop, so, of course I have nothing really keeping me from wanting to move to Spain. It's actually a no brainer for me and I wish the process were simpler.

My questions are as follows:

I've read about the 90/180 day rule, but since I am wanting to move to keep this relationship alive, spending 90 days on, 90 days off doesn't really make sense for me. I've thought about staying in Spain illegally and teaching English or just traveling around the country playing music, however, I can't imagine living in Europe and not wanting to take a few days to travel to France, Italy or elsewhere in the Shengen region when I have the time. So overstaying my tourist visa would obviously make that a problem. The more pressing issues are actually about health. Were I to become sick or injured as an illegal on an expired visa, is that an automatic alert to deport? Will they even treat me? 

I've read about how Spain is more lax, and that it's easier to work "under the table" so to speak, but honestly, I'd rather do what makes the most sense for being able to leave and re-enter in case of emergencies, etc. 
We have no plans of any sort to get married, and it's a little early in the relationship to really discuss it. If we did, it would be solely for citizenship, which is frankly a pretty awkward/sterile conversation to have IMO. Or maybe I'm just being nearsighted?

Has anyone moved to Spain for this reason? Any advice?


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

sistersibling said:


> Hello all! I have spent a couple of hours on the forum now, and I have a few practical questions to ask regarding moving to Spain. Let me first start by stating that the major reason for my wanting to move is that I have been in a romantic relationship with a Spanish man who was living in Texas and has now had to go back to Valencia due to work conflicts. I'm a musician and work in a hotel as a barista in a coffee shop, so, of course I have nothing really keeping me from wanting to move to Spain. It's actually a no brainer for me and I wish the process were simpler.
> 
> My questions are as follows:
> 
> ...


:welcome:

it used to be a lot easier to do that - but it's becoming harder all the time now that Spain is in deep recession - legal workers are becoming perfectly happy to report anyone working illegally - even legal residents who aren't paying tax & seguridad social are being reported

as for healthcare - you _might _be treated for an emergency in a state hospital - but then you'd be given a huge bill, & yes, if found to be 'illegal', you could be reported & deported

again - there are reports of even EU citizens here on holiday with the correct paperwork being refused treatment unless they pay upfront - there was even a baby born here to EU (UK I think) parents, both of whom are working, paying their way & with state healthcare entitlements, being refused treatment at a hospital

that was obviously a mistake .... but you see where I'm coming from


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## sistersibling (Jul 3, 2013)

So, really, my only realistic options are to either follow the 90/180 day rule, or marry the guy? Isn't it a lot more difficult to gain residency in Spain through marriage than vice versa?

I also read about a small loophole wherein you can receive an extended stay visa in, say, Italy or Sweden and then travel freely for the two years your visa is valid. Obviously, there have to be some restrictions or else everyone would be doing it. But really, I'm looking for a way to stay in Spain for at least one year. I'm aware of the economic situation, but I'm not too interested in finding "work" as much as I am in traveling throughout Spain as a musician, meeting and staying with people along the way for tips or even free room and board.
My boyfriend makes this sound completely feasible from a financial standpoint. But, again, I'd like to safeguard myself somehow, just in case.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

So how will you financially support yourself ?? Rent, food, travel, even mobile phone....... If you have savings to cover you and your boyfriend is happy to support you, then maybe - but its seriously unlikely you'll find work, legal or otherwise As things are in Spain, theres no reason why anyone would need to employ you unless you are completely legal and have qualifications that cant be found locally. Why would they?? They'd face a fine and prosecution, when there are squillions of unemployed Spanish already there who are desperate. II also know there are plenty of out of work musicians scattered around Spain too - We move in musical circles there and busking is the only way they make money and even then, you have to have a "look out" for the guardia

Healthcare would be a problem - there are so many scenarios where you may simply need to see a doctor and not only have to pay, but prove your identity - show passport, NIE number, proof of legalities etc.

Jo xxx


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## sistersibling (Jul 3, 2013)

Well ideally I'd like _not_ to be paying rent anywhere and instead be staying with friends of friends or negotiating free room/board for work on property (say, a hostel). I don't intend necessarily to expat completely for years, but it doesn't make sense for me to quit my job to go to Spain for only 3 months and come back, find a new apartment, a new job, etc etc. I mean, I suppose I could come home and stay with family for those next 90 days until I go back, but that airfare sure adds up. What I mean is, if I go, I'd like to stay a while. 

Food and travel will obviously be my greatest expenses, which is why I intend to save before I go. I'm an independent woman, so relying on my BF wouldn't really be a thing. But, again, it can't be unfeasible for me to believe that I could play music in cafe's or something here and there for a free meal, or a little extra cash from selling one of my CD's can it? As for a cellular, I don't see any reason why I couldn't use a pre-paid mobile for emergencies and quick meet-ups which is basically what Andres did while he was here.

I know it isn't glamorous. Certainly not the most ideal way to travel Spain. Of course, I've been researching more reasonable options. Au pairing, English teaching, etc. Just trying to find a balance between wanting to soak up the Spanish culture and language and doing so in a legitimate way. Whether it's a visa loophole or otherwise.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

sistersibling said:


> So, really, my only realistic options are to either follow the 90/180 day rule, or marry the guy? Isn't it a lot more difficult to gain residency in Spain through marriage than vice versa?
> 
> I also read about a small loophole wherein you can receive an extended stay visa in, say, Italy or Sweden and then travel freely for the two years your visa is valid. Obviously, there have to be some restrictions or else everyone would be doing it. But really, I'm looking for a way to stay in Spain for at least one year. I'm aware of the economic situation, but I'm not too interested in finding "work" as much as I am in traveling throughout Spain as a musician, meeting and staying with people along the way for tips or even free room and board.
> My boyfriend makes this sound completely feasible from a financial standpoint. But, again, I'd like to safeguard myself somehow, just in case.


if you were married, that would obviously be easier - we have a few posters here from non-EU countries who are married to Spaniards who could tell you more


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## elisa31bcn (Jan 23, 2013)

I'm an American who came here because of a relationship with a Spanish man. When I researched the possibilities, marriage came up as the only viable option to staying here. I think we would have come to that conclusion anyway, but the legal situation did have some bearing. And as a road to residency, it is quite easy really. I am also a professional musician
and make my living playing music. When I came here, almost all gigs were in cash, no questions asked, but in the last couple of years, there has been a serious push for facturas in many situations that would have been "black" money in the past. I think that's true generally, as I have been witness to musician friends, mainly Americans, having problems in certain situations. They control everything here now, even street musicians who have to go to an office every week and sign up.
No one can tell you what will happen to you in the situation you describe, and it's for you to decide if you want to take the risks. But you not only run a risk of being discovered in Spain, but I think the greater risk is traveling when you leave after overstaying and facing a fine or possible ban.
I empathize with your dilemna, and wish you luck...


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

I'm another American who came here because of a relationship with a Spanish man. But that was 30 years ago. Even back then it wasn't that easy to come here legally. I had to be sponsored by a Spanish company to get my work visa when I first moved over, and then my work permit and residency had to be renewed annually. Once I got married it became much easier. I still had to turn in tons of paperwork to renew but it was only once every 5 years. I now have permanent residency (renewable every 10 years), but it still depends on me married to my husband. If we got divorced I'd have to leave Spain. At this point I should just go for Spanish citizenship, but the thought of dealing with all that bureaucracy leaves me trembling. 

I don't think there's any way to get around the 90/180 day law. What you really need to move over here is to be sponsored for a job - but non EU nationals can only be hired to do jobs that EU nationals can't do. It doesn't look promising.

As for healthcare, you could always go to a private doctor/clinic and pay out of pocket. It's much cheaper than in the States. Unless you have a job you wouldn't be able to access state healthcare. 

I'm sorry this is so complicated. Best of luck.


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## elisa31bcn (Jan 23, 2013)

Actually you only need to be married for 3 years before you can apply for residency on your own...


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## sistersibling (Jul 3, 2013)

Thank you Elisa and Kalohi! Especially about the music thing. I just got word that he'll be back in September (phew!), so my only real concern now is that when I do decide to go to Spain and live as a musician, that I do so within the legal parameters. I really appreciate all the help!


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## Marie Ryan (Jul 4, 2013)

sistersibling (I love the name!), 

I'm from UK and came to Spain 30 years ago to be with my then Spanish boyfriend, so not the same complications as you have. But it was before the EU agreements for Residency came in, so perhaps a bit similar to what you are in...... I found a very poorly paid job teaching English as a Foreign Language (I got a diploma for that before I left England) We lived together for six years , (before we married and had two children! ) during which time I had to cross the border every 90 days to get my passport stamped. We lived in the North so I crossed at the Spain-France border in Hendaye. I literally crossed the border "got stamped out" , went to the local market to buy cheese, then returned to get my entry stamp and carried on for another 90 days. The process lasted for two hours. Would it be feasible for you to do that, for at least a few times, and incorporate that into your travel plans around Europe? maybe! 

Saying that, I have to also agree with lots of the previous posts. The situation here is not good. The two daughters I mentioned above have actually had to leave Spain and are working in England! The romantic idea that you can casually find work in bars might be a liitle optimistic. Remember, this is a country of music and there are literally thousands of young Spanish musicians in the big cities trying to do the same as you...there is a lot of competition. * Where would you be living? Big city/small town/ tourist resort on the coast? 
*Will you BF have a job to be able to support you till you find your niche? 
*Which instrument do you play? 
*Can you sing too? 
*Do you speak/sing in Spanish? Do you have a Spanish repertoire? 

I really hope you can make a go of it, but please consider all things very carefully!!


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Marie Ryan said:


> sistersibling (I love the name!),
> 
> I'm from UK and came to Spain 30 years ago to be with my then Spanish boyfriend, so not the same complications as you have. But it was before the EU agreements for Residency came in, so perhaps a bit similar to what you are in...... I found a very poorly paid job teaching English as a Foreign Language (I got a diploma for that before I left England) We lived together for six years , (before we married and had two children! ) during which time I had to cross the border every 90 days to get my passport stamped. We lived in the North so I crossed at the Spain-France border in Hendaye. I literally crossed the border "got stamped out" , went to the local market to buy cheese, then returned to get my entry stamp and carried on for another 90 days. The process lasted for two hours. Would it be feasible for you to do that, for at least a few times, and incorporate that into your travel plans around Europe? maybe!
> 
> ...


:welcome:

it's great to see another new member who is an 'old-timer' in terms of living in Spain!

unfortunately for sistersibling, she'd had to leave Spain for 90 days each time - the Schengen rules allow for visits of 90 days in each 180 - she could go to the UK or N. Ireland if she wanted to stay in Europe though - they are in the Schengen region 


yes, so many young people are leaving Spain for work, and I'm completly resigned to the idea that, unless things improve a lot in the next 5-10 years :fingerscrossed:, my girls will leave Spain for their careers, too


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

I agree there is little in the way of work in Spain, my daughter was born in Spain and she is now 18, the future isn't looking good in the way of finding employment full time! I have encouraged her to continue her studies, and hoping that within the next few years she will have enough experience to set up freelance or create her own position. However I'm still happy that she was bought up in Spain it's a great country  the way fwd is don't bother looking for work, create your own position & make opportunities....


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

xabiachica said:


> unfortunately for sistersibling, she'd had to leave Spain for 90 days each time - the Schengen rules allow for visits of 90 days in each 180 - *she could go to the UK or N. Ireland if she wanted to stay in Europe though - they are in the Schengen region*


*NOT * 

UK, Northern Ireland and Eire are NOT in the Schengen region!


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

sistersibling said:


> So, really, my only realistic options are to either follow the 90/180 day rule, or marry the guy? Isn't it a lot more difficult to gain residency in Spain through marriage than vice versa?
> 
> I also read about a small loophole wherein you can receive an extended stay visa in, say, Italy or Sweden and then travel freely for the two years your visa is valid. Obviously, there have to be some restrictions or else everyone would be doing it. But really, I'm looking for a way to stay in Spain for at least one year. I'm aware of the economic situation, but I'm not too interested in finding "work" as much as I am in traveling throughout Spain as a musician, meeting and staying with people along the way for tips or even free room and board.
> *My boyfriend makes this sound completely feasible from a financial standpoint.* But, again, I'd like to safeguard myself somehow, just in case.


Your boyfriend is funny. 

Will you be buying health insurance while you're here? Have you factored in police checkpoints if you decide to stay illegally? (At one of the local bus stations, plainclothes cops regularly profile folks who don't look like typical northern European tourists to check their documents.) 

Another idea would be to get a student visa...


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## Hombre62 (Jun 13, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> *NOT *
> 
> UK, Northern Ireland and Eire are NOT in the Schengen region!


That is true. However, it may work to the advantage of the OP. Since there are no frontier controls between Schengen countries, there are no opportunities to have her passport stamped. If she travels to the UK or Republic of Ireland, she will be issued with a tourist visa on entry thus resetting the 90-day clock.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> *NOT *
> 
> UK, Northern Ireland and Eire are NOT in the Schengen region!


06:23 am


note to self.......... check posts when posting at 06:23 am......:ranger:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Hombre62 said:


> That is true. However, it may work to the advantage of the OP. Since there are no frontier controls between Schengen countries, there are no opportunities to have her passport stamped. If she travels to the UK or Republic of Ireland, she will be issued with a tourist visa on entry thus resetting the 90-day clock.


that's what I meant... I just missed the 'NOT' out of my post, as Baldi was so gleefully pointing out...


way too early...............


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

elenetxu said:


> Your boyfriend is funny.
> 
> Will you be buying health insurance while you're here? Have you factored in police checkpoints if you decide to stay illegally? (At one of the local bus stations, plainclothes cops regularly profile folks who don't look like typical northern European tourists to check their documents.)
> 
> *Another idea would be to get a student visa*...



which of course entails actually _being a student......

_which doesn't allow for much time to travel


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## elisa31bcn (Jan 23, 2013)

A reminder also that she would have to leave Schengen every 90 days for another 90 days in order to return. It's not legal to go, get a stamp, and return....


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> which of course entails actually _being a student......
> 
> _which doesn't allow for much time to travel


You'd be surprised how people take advantage of the student visas.
It's just another legit idea! Heckuva lot better than being illegal, especially right now when the EU is angry with the US.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

elenetxu said:


> especially right now when the EU is angry with the US.


With the US attitude of continually trying to impose its will on the rest of the world, I would have thought that was a permanent state of affairs.


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## 213979 (Apr 11, 2013)

baldilocks said:


> With the US attitude of continually trying to impose its will on the rest of the world, I would have thought that was a permanent state of affairs.


Yes, but I get a feeling/hope someone hands our butt to us after this Snowden foolishness. I'm surprised that it seems like Germany hasn't held their line that they are angry...


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## USAKathy (Jul 12, 2013)

How do you think a 57yr old retired single female would fare in Spain(Valencia). I'm from the US and need practical advice from someone who "knows". Thanks! Kathy


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

USAKathy said:


> How do you think a 57yr old retired single female would fare in Spain(Valencia). I'm from the US and need practical advice from someone who "knows". Thanks! Kathy


Any particular reason for Valencia? It seems very specific for somebody posing that type of question. Are we to assume that you are able to show a monthly income into a Spanish bank account and/or capital similarly disposed? Do you have healthcare coverage? Do you have the relevant visas? or if these things are not in place now, they will be when the time comes.

Do you speak Spanish? Are you proposing to engage in any form of employment when here? 

Yes, I know that it should be you who is asking the questions but you give us so little information to work with that we have to ask for the information that you are not volunteering in order to help you.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

A related question, hope someone can help. Went for residency with all the needed paperwork and the 10,000 euros in our newly opened Spanish bank account as advised by our over priced relocation agent! and we were told that actually we needed 20,000euros! Family of 4 with 2 kids under 18. Hubby has a work contract but the project has been delayed. It is a huge International project generating lots of jobs for a Spanish work force so it will go a head. The residency office also wouldn't accept this contract until we had it translated into Spanish. We have private health cover, rented apt & kids school places secured with large deposit. Has anyone else been told that 10,000 euros wasn't enough for a family of 4?? We are starting to worry!!!! We are from the UK. Thanks in advance for any help / advice


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

angil said:


> A related question, hope someone can help. Went for residency with all the needed paperwork and the 10,000 euros in our newly opened Spanish bank account as advised by our over priced relocation agent! and we were told that actually we needed 20,000euros! Family of 4 with 2 kids under 18. Hubby has a work contract but the project has been delayed. It is a huge International project generating lots of jobs for a Spanish work force so it will go a head. The residency office also wouldn't accept this contract until we had it translated into Spanish. We have private health cover, rented apt & kids school places secured with large deposit. Has anyone else been told that 10,000 euros wasn't enough for a family of 4?? We are starting to worry!!!! We are from the UK. Thanks in advance for any help / advice


I'm not surprised tbh...... even us EU citizens (that's what you mean by ''we're from the UK'', yes?) have to have proof of funds & healthcare to move here now

most offices are asking for +/- 6000€ for one person, 8000€ or more for two, so for a family of four.............. there's no way 10,000€ would be enough.... you certainly couldn't live on it, could you? And that's what they're asking for - proof that you're financially self-sufficient

as for the contract - no contract is legal in Spain unless it's in Spanish (obvious really), & if it's not it could say anything as far as the extranjería is concerned - it could even be a shopping list!

the best thing you can do is start getting regular transfers made into the Spanish bank account & then go back to register again once your husband's job starts

school won't be starting for a couple of months, so hopefully it will all be sorted out by then


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Thank you for the reply. Yes we are EU citizens! We did the whole 10,000 euro like I said as we were advised by our relocation agent! (contacted her from overseas while on another expat posting). & it truly is the first time my hubby had encountered his work contract not being accepted in English which is the business language of the world and of maritime law. It is an International company. Usually his company sorts everything but we arrived a little ahead of schedule to allow us time to settle etc before his project started (in a different area of Spain to where me and the children will be living for International School reasons). We already have another appointment in place at the residency office. & will indeed go 'armed' with everything we need! Our relocation agent has done more harm than good!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

angil said:


> Thank you for the reply. Yes we are EU citizens! We did the whole 10,000 euro like I said as we were advised by our relocation agent! (contacted her from overseas while on another expat posting). & it truly is the first time my hubby had encountered his work contract not being accepted in English which is the business language of the world and of maritime law. It is an International company. Usually his company sorts everything but we arrived a little ahead of schedule to allow us time to settle etc before his project started (in a different area of Spain to where me and the children will be living for International School reasons). We already have another appointment in place at the residency office. & will indeed go 'armed' with everything we need! Our relocation agent has done more harm than good!


If English truly were the 'business language of the world' I would not have been able to earn enough money whilst living in the UK and working as a freelance translator/interpreter working 100% for businesses of all sizes and turnovers to enable me to purchase two substantial properties...

I wonder what the case would be were one to produce for official purposes in the UK a document of similar importance in, say, Chinese?

In my experience of Spain every document will be presented in Spanish and it is the responsibility of the recipient to have it translated into their language.

South Korea must be a very interesting place to live and work...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> If English truly were the 'business language of the world' I would not have been able to earn enough money whilst living in the UK and working as a freelance translator/interpreter working 100% for businesses of all sizes and turnovers to enable me to purchase two substantial properties...
> 
> I wonder what the case would be were one to produce for official purposes in the UK a document of similar importance in, say, Chinese?
> 
> ...


 & if it's for something official you might even have to get a 'legal' translation.... & they don't come cheap!


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Thank you for your help!


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

Bear in mind once you have your residency you can move money around again if you wish maybe it's easier to apply for temp residence initially (3months) allowing you time to get other stuff sorted.. have you got your padron certificates? maybe you caught them on a bad day, try and take some1 who speaks Spanish to help you.. good luck


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Hi, The lady on the desk was a little abrasive in her ways but helpful! She spoke perfect English. If the 'rules' are approx. 5000+euros per applicant in your Spanish bank account regardless of age, well thems the rules! We were just given duff info by someone we paid to assist us. The employment contract will be translated by an official translator, I am currently looking into this (actually the clerk at the residency office just said use an online translation tool! - but I don't trust that! We want those 't's crossed and 'i's dotted the next time we go). No we don't have our padron certificates? Again our relocation agent didn't mention this. She seemed to think it was in our best interest to go straight for residency. Thanks so much for your input much appreciated.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

angil said:


> Hi, The lady on the desk was a little abrasive in her ways but helpful! She spoke perfect English. If the 'rules' are approx. 5000+euros per applicant in your Spanish bank account regardless of age, well thems the rules! We were just given duff info by someone we paid to assist us. The employment contract will be translated by an official translator, I am currently looking into this (actually the clerk at the residency office just said use an online translation tool! - but I don't trust that! We want those 't's crossed and 'i's dotted the next time we go). No we don't have our padron certificates? Again our relocation agent didn't mention this. She seemed to think it was in our best interest to go straight for residency. Thanks so much for your input much appreciated.


ppfffttt...............relocation agents 

some offices will want you to be on the padrón before you register as resident, & some ayuntamientos will want you to be registered as resident before you can be on the padrón......... the only way to know for sure is to ask the respective offices yourself - local knowledge is king in everything in Spain

strictly speaking, you don't have to register as resident before you go on the padrón, but since you have to do both anyway, it hardly matters & you might as well go with what they want...

there's also no such thing as 'temp' residency - I imagine agua642 means that you can get a NIE number without having to prove income etc. - that's completely different


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

agua642 said:


> Bear in mind once you have your residency you can move money around again if you wish *maybe it's easier to apply for temp residence initially (3months)* allowing you time to get other stuff sorted.. have you got your padron certificates? maybe you caught them on a bad day, try and take some1 who speaks Spanish to help you.. good luck


There is no such thing! If you are to be here for more than 90 days, you are required to apply for residency (punto, period full-stop)! You will not normally be able to get the padron unless you have your NIE (which you normally also get with residency) and have a place to live.


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## agua642 (May 24, 2009)

Opps yes baldilocks is correct you need residencia before applying for padron, I recently presented papers for someone applying for residencia and it was fairly straight fwd


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

agua642 said:


> Opps yes baldilocks is correct you need residencia before applying for padron, I recently presented papers for someone applying for residencia and it was fairly straight fwd


As Lynne says, it depends where you are and who you see on the day.

We had to be on the padron before getting residencia - but then this was 7 or 8 years ago.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Thanks all. The most annoying thing is being given the wrong info and paying for it! Wrong info is worse than no info. This forum has proved invaluable (which is weird as I was told by my relocation agent to ignore what I read on forums - bloomin hec!!).


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