# Driving In



## ExpatEmigre (Nov 22, 2015)

I've looked through old threads, but have not found answers to my specific questions. (Feel free to point me in the right direction if I've merely overlooked the obvious.)

When entering Mexico by car, I know that one may obtain the TIP in advance from Banjercito. The online application directs applicants to first obtain a pre-authorisation. However, the online pre-authorisation indicates that it is only for tourist, transmigration, or business purposes. I have an RT (canje) visa, so none of those three situations applies. Does that mean I'm stuck taking care of everything at the port of entry? I had hoped to make that as smooth and quick as possible.

If it is possible to obtain the TIP in advance, I note that the online application requests the date of entry. How exact must that be? I will be stopping in New Orleans to see friends from law school my way to the border. I would like some flexibility to stay an extra day or two if I want, but I wouldn't want arriving a day or a few later than planned to invalidate the TIP.

Does anyone have any words of wisdom gleaned from experience? It seems that I may have to sacrifice a bit of time at the border if I want flexibility.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

You have to stop at the border and get the TIP for 30 days as you will be given a FMM "canje" card for 30 days and when you get your 1 year RT card at your local INM office your TIP will be valid until it´s expiration date and when you renew for another 1 to 3 years your TIP will be valid until that expiration date. To save the deposit from being forfeited after 15 days from the expiration date you also have to go to any local ADUANA office and show them your legal immigration status as a temporary resident of Mexico.

You need the "canje" FMM card and an entrance stamp in your passport to process the 6 month pre-approved visa from a Mexican Consulate to get the RT visa/cards once in Mexico.


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## tbh (Apr 11, 2015)

For what it's worth I went through those procedures late last September at N. Laredo on a Monday that was not after any big weekend that might bring 100s+ of weekend returnees to MX. I arrived in the building at 6:40 a.m. with no prior online TIP, but I had my RT paperwork in hand. I walked into that huge room planning to look for the end of the line -- I was the only person in the room! At 7:05 I was trying to figure out which door to use to get out of the building because I was done and on my way. 

I don't know if I was lucky or if arriving early was the answer but I breezed right on through. Others can chime in on what they think about how to hit it in a slack period. You might want to search for opinions about slack times at the border, too. By the way, the TIP procedure didn't take very long.


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## ExpatEmigre (Nov 22, 2015)

Follow-up question: 
Is it reasonable to plan to get from Laredo to Durango in one day and then Durango to Puerto Vallarta in one day?
The distances easily would be accomplished in the US, but I'm not afraid of speeding in the US & I don't plan to speed in Mexico.


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## tcreek (Sep 13, 2010)

ExpatEmigre said:


> Follow-up question:
> Is it reasonable to plan to get from Laredo to Durango in one day and then Durango to Puerto Vallarta in one day?
> The distances easily would be accomplished in the US, but I'm not afraid of speeding in the US & I don't plan to speed in Mexico.


In my years of driving in Mexico, I have found the police in Mexico more tolerant of speeders. I have driven 100 MPH on the toll roads, and they don't even blink at eye. On the secondary roads, I don't go nearly that fast, as it is just not safe enough. However I still speed on them, and the most I have gotten from that is a hand wave indicating to slow down.

In Police State USA, they look for any reason to pull you over as everyone driving north is either a drug runner, or a human smuggler.


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## tcreek (Sep 13, 2010)

tbh said:


> For what it's worth I went through those procedures late last September at N. Laredo on a Monday that was not after any big weekend that might bring 100s+ of weekend returnees to MX. I arrived in the building at 6:40 a.m. with no prior online TIP, but I had my RT paperwork in hand. I walked into that huge room planning to look for the end of the line -- I was the only person in the room! At 7:05 I was trying to figure out which door to use to get out of the building because I was done and on my way.
> 
> I don't know if I was lucky or if arriving early was the answer but I breezed right on through. Others can chime in on what they think about how to hit it in a slack period. You might want to search for opinions about slack times at the border, too. By the way, the TIP procedure didn't take very long.



Years ago I hit Nuevo Laredo at 10 AM. Was stuck there about 3-4 hours.
Ever since I always enter through Reynosa. No more than 30 minutes no matter what time of day, or night. Of course there are some exceptions like during a holiday weekend, etc.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

ExpatEmigre said:


> Follow-up question:
> Is it reasonable to plan to get from Laredo to Durango in one day and then Durango to Puerto Vallarta in one day?
> The distances easily would be accomplished in the US, but I'm not afraid of speeding in the US & I don't plan to speed in Mexico.


Laredo to Durango could be ambitious, depending on how long it takes for paperwork. 
Durango to PV is a nice drive, over the Sierra and into the jungle. Toll road takes you over the Baluarte Bridge at the Durango-Sinaloa border. Completed only two years ago, highest bridge in the hemisphere, and crown jewel of Mexican transport infrastructure. Cut the driving, Dgo-Maz, from 7 hrs. to 3. Toll roads are pricey though, usually costing at least as much as gas, and most only take pesos in cash. Check the http://app.sct.gob.mx/sibuac_internet/ControllerUI?action=cmdEscogeRuta site to see how much you'll be paying and where.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

Rutas Punto a Punto


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## tbh (Apr 11, 2015)

By the way, if you use Nuevo Laredo and want to avoid stress and wasting time make sure you know how to get from that first checkpoint at the border over to the building for immigration and the TIP. It's easy ... once you know how! There have been several excellent postings that explain it in detail and they are probably still on the internet.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

tcreek said:


> In my years of driving in Mexico, I have found the police in Mexico more tolerant of speeders. I have driven 100 MPH on the toll roads, and they don't even blink at eye. On the secondary roads, I don't go nearly that fast, as it is just not safe enough. However I still speed on them, and the most I have gotten from that is a hand wave indicating to slow down.


This has been our experience also. Lots less enforcement and selective enforcement here than NOB. Because of the drug traffic NOB, police are looking at all violators, no matter how small, and for any minor variation in driving that appears suspicious. Makes you aware that you must "toe the line" there.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

We take mostly "free roads" and are hard pressed to average 55 mph on our route from Laredo to Leon. One who has not done that route for 16 years, as I have, would struggle to get close to 50 mph. More speed available on toll roads, but mostly they are expensive and I do not find that much of an advantage to us for using them, with 2 exceptions on our route. YMMD.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

In our experience, we usually enter Nuevo Laredo about 8 p.m. on a week night (Monday -Wednesday), go under the bridge and get my tourist permit and our TIP. Takes normally about 25-30 minutes total. Then we proceed to "our hotel", where we spend the night, getting up just before daylight, and head toward Monterrey on "free roads". We can make Leon normally in about 11 hours, including stops for gas and food. We do not cross at a time when we believe there will be holiday traffic heading south, nor coming north when that traffic returns. A little planning can save a LOT of wait time.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

Cops in Mexico don't have to look for traffic violations in the drug inspection gauntlet aka Hwy 15 northbound to Nogales. At least half-dozen checkpoints, a real pain in the arse, and not without the genuine risk that the Federales will plant something in your vehicle. Once happened to me years ago. The worst part is that after they had finished their extortion, they forgot about an extra joint they had stashed. It was later found by the counterparts at the U.S. border. Told them the tale and they gave us a good tongue-lashing for being so innocent and stupid, but didn't prosecute. Apparently the experience is so common they're used to it. Anyway, you've a right to observe when they're in your vehicle, but thoroughly check it when they're done.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

perropedorro said:


> Cops in Mexico don't have to look for traffic violations in the drug inspection gauntlet aka Hwy 15 northbound to Nogales. At least half-dozen checkpoints, a real pain in the arse, and not without the genuine risk that the Federales will plant something in your vehicle. Once happened to me years ago. The worst part is that after they had finished their extortion, they forgot about an extra joint they had stashed. It was later found by the counterparts at the U.S. border. Told them the tale and they gave us a good tongue-lashing for being so innocent and stupid, but didn't prosecute. Apparently the experience is so common they're used to it. Anyway, you've a right to observe when they're in your vehicle, but thoroughly check it when they're done.


About half the time we are searched at least once on a trip. These searches are quite amusing to us, we call it a "play-like search", as they really don't seem to know how to really search like NOB, and are just playing and wasting our time.( Just the way things are.) Once, they took a cell phone and a few tools I had below my seat; didn't check until an hour later. Now, we both are right there. Often we find a Reten with a long line of cars, and when we get to the head, there is just one guy standing there doing nothing and no one else in sight. WHY? (no one knows, that is just the way things are).


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## ExpatEmigre (Nov 22, 2015)

tbh said:


> By the way, if you use Nuevo Laredo and want to avoid stress and wasting time make sure you know how to get from that first checkpoint at the border over to the building for immigration and the TIP. It's easy ... once you know how! There have been several excellent postings that explain it in detail and they are probably still on the internet.


Thank you!

Part of the reason for wanting to apply for the TIP online in advance is the fact that I will have my dog with me, but will otherwise be alone. So, he has to stand in all of the lines with me, and if they actually do the inspection/paperwork check for him, that will add still more time, lessening the likelihood of getting to Durango in one day before dark.

So I suppose the next question (and forgive me if someone down-thread has answered this already) is: driving in from Texas (and I can cross anywhere, but I want the quickest route to Puerto Vallarta) to PV, is only one intermediate stop for the night reasonable? If so, where would be a suggested stopping point, given that I have a ten-pound dog (who is mostly deaf & 13.5 yrs old)?


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## Chelloveck (Sep 21, 2013)

ExpatEmigre said:


> So I suppose the next question (and forgive me if someone down-thread has answered this already) is: driving in from Texas (and I can cross anywhere, but I want the quickest route to Puerto Vallarta) to PV, is only one intermediate stop for the night reasonable? If so, where would be a suggested stopping point, given that I have a ten-pound dog (who is mostly deaf & 13.5 yrs old)?


I haven't personally driven the route from Laredo to Puerto Vallarta. But it should take 15-16 hours if you don't encounter any unusual circumstances that cause a delay.

Either Zacatecas or Aguascalientes would be logical stayover points. It would probably take about seven hours to reach Zacatecas from Laredo, and maybe another hour-and-a-half to reach Aguascalientes. Both are good-sized cities and would have pet-friendly hotels.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

> I want the quickest route to Puerto Vallarta


I'll agree with Chelloveck in that some town in Zacatecas would make a good stopover. Aguascalientes is a really nice city also, but keep in mind that the Feria Nacional, the San Marcos fair, is in town from mid April through May 10th or so. You might want to see it...or not. Another factor on your trip is the hellish and dangerous traffic on the Guadalajara periférico. Pick your hour, before 6 am, after 10 pm or between 11 and 3 during the day. The last 150 kms. into Vallarta is a pain, with poorly marked curves and slow truck traffic. Not recommended at night.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

ExpatEmigre said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Part of the reason for wanting to apply for the TIP online in advance is the fact that I will have my dog with me, but will otherwise be alone. So, he has to stand in all of the lines with me,


If I am not mistaken, your dog will not be allowed inside the building where you will need to go to get the TIP. You may know otherwise, but in all the times I have crossed and entered that building (at least 35 times in 16 years), I have NEVER seen an animal of any type. Just a heads up. There are many places in Mexico that do not allow "pets". YMMD. You will still need to stand in that line to get your actual TIP, as they do not have a special line for those preapproved.


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## ExpatEmigre (Nov 22, 2015)

perropedorro said:


> I'll agree with Chelloveck in that some town in Zacatecas would make a good stopover. Aguascalientes is a really nice city also, but keep in mind that the Feria Nacional, the San Marcos fair, is in town from mid April through May 10th or so. You might want to see it...or not. Another factor on your trip is the hellish and dangerous traffic on the Guadalajara periférico. Pick your hour, before 6 am, after 10 pm or between 11 and 3 during the day. The last 150 kms. into Vallarta is a pain, with poorly marked curves and slow truck traffic. Not recommended at night.


Even just taking cuotas (as much as possible), my plan was to drive only during daylight while in Mexico. I have no doubt that I eventually will relax some of the rules I'm setting for myself, but for the first time driving in Mexico (but not the first time driving outside the US), being cautious is not unwarranted.


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## ExpatEmigre (Nov 22, 2015)

coondawg said:


> If I am not mistaken, your dog will not be allowed inside the building where you will need to go to get the TIP. You may know otherwise, but in all the times I have crossed and entered that building (at least 35 times in 16 years), I have NEVER seen an animal of any type. Just a heads up. There are many places in Mexico that do not allow "pets". YMMD. You will still need to stand in that line to get your actual TIP, as they do not have a special line for those preapproved.


If you are correct, then I will forfeit my RT & stay in the US or move to Europe. There is absolutely zero chance of me ever leaving him alone in a hot car. I've never had any issue flying in with him. Not that it has the same force legally outside the US as inside, but he is a service dog & generally anywhere in the world I've taken him, as long as he's wearing his vest, people don't really bother us.

Thanks for the information. Now I have to call & rescind all of the cancellations I've been making. Looks like we're not moving in June, and never to Mexico. Maybe I should check out the other country fora here to pick a better spot.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

ExpatEmigre said:


> There is absolutely zero chance of me ever leaving him alone in a hot car.


Those areas always have folks offering multiple services. I'm sure someone there will happily dog-sit, wash and watch your car, and feed your pet if he's hungry. All for a reasonable price.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

ExpatEmigre said:


> If you are correct, then I will forfeit my RT & stay in the US or move to Europe. There is absolutely zero chance of me ever leaving him alone in a hot car. I've never had any issue flying in with him. Not that it has the same force legally outside the US as inside, but he is a service dog & generally anywhere in the world I've taken him, as long as he's wearing his vest, people don't really bother us.
> 
> Thanks for the information. Now I have to call & rescind all of the cancellations I've been making. Looks like we're not moving in June, and never to Mexico. Maybe I should check out the other country fora here to pick a better spot.


Or cross at a time of day when it is not hot. I don't know the hours of the TIP office, but the last time I drove across the border, it was midnight and there was no one there except us and 3 or 4 bored guards.


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## ExpatEmigre (Nov 22, 2015)

That's a piece of good advice, TG. An option might be to enter early in the morning or after dark. This might be a bit off-topic, but, does anyone have any advice about Nuevo Laredo after dark?


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## Chelloveck (Sep 21, 2013)

ExpatEmigre said:


> This might be a bit off-topic, but, does anyone have any advice about Nuevo Laredo after dark?


Well, the CIITEV station in Nuevo Laredo is hard enough to find in full daylight if you're not familiar with it, although on my last crossing just last month I did notice that they have put up a few new signs to make it a little easier for first-timers.

Nuevo Laredo is dodgy in general. You don't want to get lost there late at night.

You could leave your dog in your vehicle for a few minutes while you run inside and ask if it's okay to bring in a service dog. If they say no, there are plenty of railings outside where you could tether the dog with a bowl of water. He should be okay for the 20-40 minutes it might take to get your TIP. There might be kids around who would be happy to watch your dog for 20-40 pesos.

If you tether the dog outside, just make sure he can't get into the line of traffic that goes to the TIP cancellation booth. So, as you face the building entrance, there are a bunch of glass doors up the steps. The cancellation booth is to the right, and the main traffic lane from the access street is right in the middle. Tether the dog to the left side of those steps.

I don't recall ever having seen dogs inside that facility, but I see them tethered outside almost every time I cross. I think you said your dog was only 10 pounds? So, he's small. If he is comfortable inside a pet carrier, bringing him inside in a carrier might be okay.


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## ExpatEmigre (Nov 22, 2015)

Chelloveck said:


> Well, the CIITEV station in Nuevo Laredo is hard enough to find in full daylight if you're not familiar with it, although on my last crossing just last month I did notice that they have put up a few new signs to make it a little easier for first-timers.
> 
> Nuevo Laredo is dodgy in general. You don't want to get lost there late at night.
> 
> ...


Re Nuevo Laredo being dodgy: I think I read somewhere that there is a Holiday Inn very close to the border (which does not accept pets, but does apparently accept service animals). I was thinking maybe that one for the night.

You give some great ideas, none of which I could bring myself to implement. I wouldn't tether him or leave him with a stranger for fear of never seeing him again. Note that has nothing to do with Mexico; I wouldn't do it here, either.

I think my best option, other than trying it at night when I can lock him in the car, is carrying him in wearing his vest, and offering to tote him in a bag if anyone complains. He weighs just under ten pounds.

I may try to make some inquiries via email or telephone, but I expect that, as with many things, the official line & what the person on duty at the time says may not match.

I may also put out feelers to friends to see if anyone wants a free trip to PV & I can just buy them a 1-way ticket back.


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## ExpatEmigre (Nov 22, 2015)

I've just read the Ley General para la Inclusión de las Personas con Discapacidad & I think I should be okay bringing my service dog into any government building. Of course, much depends on the official in front of me, but I am much more at ease now. Implementation may perhaps lag behind the letter of the law, but I am pleased by the progressive and inclusive language of the law. 

Sorry for freaking out.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

ExpatEmigre said:


> I've just read the Ley General para la Inclusión de las Personas con Discapacidad & I think I should be okay bringing my service dog into any government building. Of course, much depends on the official in front of me, but I am much more at ease now. Implementation may perhaps lag behind the letter of the law, but I am pleased by the progressive and inclusive language of the law.
> Sorry for freaking out.


I wish you well on your trip. It's a good idea to bring a copy of the law that permits your service animal, in case you run into an official who is unaware. Still, it does matter who you run into, and sometimes it's an igno-arrogant burrocrat who couldn't care less what the law says, even if you invite them to read it.


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## tbh (Apr 11, 2015)

If you need to do it at night to minimize all the possible problems with your dog you can find CIITEV if you prepare properly. Example, make the "drive" on Google Street View a few times so you know what it looks like in the daytime. Start on Nicolas Bravo, then to Blvd. Luis Donaldo Colosio and learn to recognize the pic I'll attach below. Click on it to get the full 1200 x 543 size. At full size, and on Street View, too, you can read the signs showing the Retorno to CIITEV. This is the key retorno that you have to do correctly. You make the widest possible sweep to the left (180) entering the very last lane on the far side (NE, river side) of that blue car with the red truck behind it. When the 180 is completed you will be in the right most lane going NW. That's your key maneuver.

When you are done, and if you want to get out of Nuevo Laredo you can go back the same way to the location of the retorno and cross over to the western-most lane but then go _south_ on Luis Donaldo Colosio and bypass the city.


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## ExpatEmigre (Nov 22, 2015)

tbh said:


> If you need to do it at night to minimize all the possible problems with your dog you can find CIITEV if you prepare properly. Example, make the "drive" on Google Street View a few times so you know what it looks like in the daytime. Start on Nicolas Bravo, then to Blvd. Luis Donaldo Colosio and learn to recognize the pic I'll attach below. Click on it to get the full 1200 x 543 size. At full size, and on Street View, too, you can read the signs showing the Retorno to CIITEV. This is the key retorno that you have to do correctly. You make the widest possible sweep to the left (180) entering the very last lane on the far side (NE, river side) of that blue car with the red truck behind it. When the 180 is completed you will be in the right most lane going NW. That's your key maneuver.
> 
> When you are done, and if you want to get out of Nuevo Laredo you can go back the same way to the location of the retorno and cross over to the western-most lane but then go _south_ on Luis Donaldo Colosio and bypass the city.


That's very detailed & informative! Thank you!


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## chuck846 (Jan 15, 2016)

ExpatEmigre said:


> That's very detailed & informative! Thank you!


I got turned around when we were in Nuevo Laredo and almost found myself back in the US after clearing immigration.

The handful of times we have driven into Mexico City with a specific destination in the City itself - not just passing through on the highway - we have flagged down a taxi, told him where we wanted to go and paid him to let us follow him there. For a few pesos it has been well worth it. Perhaps something like that would work in Nuevo Laredo ?


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## Chelloveck (Sep 21, 2013)

ExpatEmigre said:


> Re Nuevo Laredo being dodgy: I think I read somewhere that there is a Holiday Inn very close to the border (which does not accept pets, but does apparently accept service animals). I was thinking maybe that one for the night.
> 
> You give some great ideas, none of which I could bring myself to implement. I wouldn't tether him or leave him with a stranger for fear of never seeing him again. Note that has nothing to do with Mexico; I wouldn't do it here, either.
> 
> ...


The Holiday Inn Express in Nuevo Laredo accepts service animals. I don't know your medical situation, but if you are comfortable being without the dog for an hour or so, you could leave him in the hotel room while you go and get your TIP, then come back and get him and check out.


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## ExpatEmigre (Nov 22, 2015)

I'm dragging this thread back to life. 
I've decided to add more days into my journey. That means only spending one night in New Orleans with friends, but the extra days will keep me sane, I think.

I had originally planned to drive straight from New Orleans to Laredo. I'm wondering if that might be a little ambitious, for one day, though. Splitting that day up, I'm not sure where I would stay. I would rather not stay in Houston, because I think it is only about 5-6 hours from New Orleans. Victoria, TX, is an option, but that is close enough to Laredo that it wouldn't make sense to stop in Laredo/NL for the night, which throws my other plans into disarray. 

Assuming I stop at Laredo/Nuevo Laredo, and I take the more westerly route perrodeperro mentioned, would Torreon be a better stop, and then Mazatlan? I'm giving myself a headache.

The good news: I bought my Mexico car insurance today. So at least I'm making some progress.

Any special trip planning tips coming from Florida? (Well, really just coming from New Orleans, because I am certain that I will be stopping there.)


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## ExpatEmigre (Nov 22, 2015)

I may just be miserable & go from New Orleans to Laredo.

I found a road guide that lists travel times. It looks like Nuevo Laredo to Torreon would be about 7 ½ hours (plus breaks for gas & letting the dog do his business). That seems reasonable and would give a little bit of a cushion for backups at the border, I suppose. (Am I totally wrong about that?) I'm not sure about a dog-friendly place in Torreon. It looks like maybe the Hotel Posada del Sol takes pets. I can't see anything on their website about parking. I assume they have it; I'm just not sure how secure it is. I will have quite a bit of stuff in the car.

The next day, Torreon to Mazatlan would be a bit long, but doable. The guide I saw says about 9 ½ hours, but I think that's before the new bridge cut some of the travel time between Durango and Mazatlan. I expect finding a dog-friendly place in Mazatlan might be easier than some of the more interior locales (but I have no empirical evidence to substantiate that at all).

Then the last day, Mazatlan to Puerto Vallarta.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

ExpatEmigre said:


> I may just be miserable & go from New Orleans to Laredo.
> 
> I found a road guide that lists travel times. It looks like Nuevo Laredo to Torreon would be about 7 ½ hours (plus breaks for gas & letting the dog do his business). That seems reasonable and would give a little bit of a cushion for backups at the border, I suppose. (Am I totally wrong about that?) I'm not sure about a dog-friendly place in Torreon. It looks like maybe the Hotel Posada del Sol takes pets. I can't see anything on their website about parking. I assume they have it; I'm just not sure how secure it is. I will have quite a bit of stuff in the car.
> 
> ...


The new bridge cuts the time between Mazatlan and Durango in half. Google maps says Torreón to Mazatlan is about 5 hours now.


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## ExpatEmigre (Nov 22, 2015)

TundraGreen said:


> The new bridge cuts the time between Mazatlan and Durango in half. Google maps says Torreón to Mazatlan is about 5 hours now.


That actually sounds downright pleasant!


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

ExpatEmigre said:


> That actually sounds downright pleasant!


I haven't seen the bridge yet, but it is on my list of things to do. It is supposed to be an engineering marvel and very spectacular.


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## ExpatEmigre (Nov 22, 2015)

TundraGreen said:


> I haven't seen the bridge yet, but it is on my list of things to do. It is supposed to be an engineering marvel and very spectacular.


I'll report back in a couple of weeks.


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## ExpatEmigre (Nov 22, 2015)

The bridge is fantastic! I wish there were places to pull off the highway to take in the beauty. The physical beauty is phenomenal & that section of highway is really an interesting bit of engineering.


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