# Cover Letter/Form for CNF Application



## MIM89

Hello,

I am an Australian/French Dual citizen currently living in The Netherlands. My daughter was born here and in order to have her recognized as an Australian citizen I am required to show evidence to the Australian government showing:
"...documentation confirming the date and method of acquisition of French citizenship, such as a citizenship certificate, registration document, or other documented confirmation from the Government of France."
After some research and reading past posts here, I understand a CNF is what I need.

I have been busy preparing all of the documents as per Certificat de nationalité française (CNF) but I have some questions I would like some help on. I want to obtain the CNF form as quickly as possible. The Australian government has given me 28 days to answer their request, I already accept this is impossible and will try to request more time.

Background info:

My grandmother(deceased) was born in Paris, she moved to Australia as a French citizen, gained Australian citizenship after some time which at the time required giving up her French citizenship. Later on, the laws changed and she applied for her French citizenship back(I'm unsure of these dates) to have dual citizenship. I have copies of her French birth certificate, Identity card (from 1949 & 2010), registration card of French nationals living outside of France and her Livret de Famille showing marriage to my grandfather(non-French), and my mother's birth.
My mother was born in Australia as a dual French/Australian. I have copies of both her French and Australian birth certificate, French wedding certificate to my father(non-french), copy of the Livret de Famille showing my birth, and a copy of her current French passport.
I was born in Australia and have copies of both my Australian and French birth certificates as well as my French ID card and Australian and French Passports. I was married last year in The Netherlands and do not yet have a French marriage certificate, although I am almost ready to send that application off along with the birth registration for my daughter.
Questions:

Is there a template cover letter or form I can include with the documents in the envelope?
The French Embassy of the Ivory Coast has this form on their website, but the address to mail it to is different so I do not want to use this form. Does this form mean anything official? Various other embassy websites also use this address which differs from the one currently linked from the service-france.fr website here. 
Should I proactively include a copy of my father's Australian Birth Certificate? 
Is there any way I can speed the process up? I live 4.5 hours drive from Paris.
I plan to include my French birth certificate, my mother's French birth certificate, my parent's French marriage certificate, a copy of my passport, a recent photo, and a multilingual extract of my Dutch registration showing where I live. Should I include anything else such as a copy of my mother's French Passport?
How long can I expect this CNF process to last?
I think this is the best forum to post to for information, I hope that is ok.

Thank you for any help or advice on this subject .


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## BackinFrance

There is a form you can use. Google demandse certificat nationalité française.

HTH 

Can't help with your other questions.


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## balthy

Isn’t your French passport enough to prove French citizenship?
I’m not of much use as the CNF application is something I am in the middle of preparing for as well but as I am overseas, I understand the process can take up to 3 years so in my case, I will wait until I move to France to apply as it should be a lot shorter. 

There is information on the Service Public website as to where to send your application which will be an address in Paris. Search for CNF. 

There is an application form for the CNF which I got from the French Consulate in London.


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## Bevdeforges

The process for obtaining a French CNF can take a couple years or more. Since this is for the Australian government, not the French government, you may want to try simply using a copy of your French birth certificate - which will indicate the basis on which you obtained your French nationality. I think that would fulfill the requirement for a "registration document" from the French government. 

Contact Nantes - details here: Acte de naissance : demande de copie intégrale ou d'extrait | service-public.fr


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## MIM89

Bevdeforges said:


> The process for obtaining a French CNF can take a couple years or more. Since this is for the Australian government, not the French government, you may want to try simply using a copy of your French birth certificate - which will indicate the basis on which you obtained your French nationality. I think that would fulfill the requirement for a "registration document" from the French government.
> 
> Contact Nantes - details here: Acte de naissance : demande de copie intégrale ou d'extrait | service-public.fr


Thanks Bevdeforges for the reply, I do have a complete copy of my birth certificate but it does not mention anything about the basis of my French nationality, unfortunately. It is merely a transcription of my Australian birth certificate with some additional information stating who by and when it was transcribed into the French registration system. Is this not normal? Perhaps it would be easier to have the French birth certificate corrected?

Hi BackinFrance, Balthy,
I have searched for that term and found several forms which all seem to be supplied by French embassies around the world. Washington, Los Angeles, Kenya consulate all have forms available, they look old with the wrong address in Paris to send it to at the top, none on the UK embassy website. The UK embassy has the same text as the reply I got from the Australian & Dutch consulate: "...we are not competent to help you..." and they give a link to the Accueil Particuliers | service-public.fr website.
Australia is accepting my French passport/birth certificate as proof of citizenship, but they want to know how I obtained it. Depending on how I obtained it, I may have voided by Australian citizenship, which I think is what they are actually looking to assess.


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## BackinFrance

DEMCNF-MONDE.PDF

But I don't see how you would get it in time. 

I would suggest you visit the French Consulate in Amsterdam and see if they can come up with a solution.


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## BackinFrance

I think if you were born in Australia you would not have a problem and that your place of birth should be shown on your Australian birth certificate and maybe also on your Australian passport.


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## balthy

Your French birth certificate sounds like mine, a transcript of my British one but with the addition of a line that says my mother is a French National. 

The CNF form I got was mailed to me by the French Consulate in London after they refused my application for a passport. The CNF will take time though esp if you are not in France. I’m not sure if the form is necessary, there isn’t one to download from Service Public but there is a list of items and the address to send it to.
I don’t think there is a way to expedite the CNF, 

I did approach a lawyer in France once who could assist me with the application but the timeline was the same (upto 3 years when applying from outside France)


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## Xyz789

Fellow Aussie dual national here. When I went through the process for my kids a few years ago, they didn't require any paperwork other than birth certificates (ie on the basis of those they accepted my other nationality, not French, was from birth rather than acquired at a later date). 

I don't have any knowledge of the CNF process I'm afraid but did you receive your follow up request by email? (I did - it was a few years ago, but after the process was centralised). If so, could you contact them to ask for clarification? Would they accept a generic French gov document that explains at a high level how French citizenship by descent is conferred in your circumstances? As if they will accept an alternative to the CNF, perhaps the French consulate in Australia may have helped with similar queries in the past and can point you in the right direction. The Australian Embassy in France may not be much help, now that the process is centralised.


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## Bevdeforges

MIM89 said:


> I do have a complete copy of my birth certificate but it does not mention anything about the basis of my French nationality, unfortunately. It is merely a transcription of my Australian birth certificate with some additional information stating who by and when it was transcribed into the French registration system. Is this not normal?


Is what you have an official copy of your French birth certificate from Nantes? Should be a full page document titled "Acte de Naissance" with a Dossier number and Acte number on the top line. If you order this from Nantes (using the link in the reference I gave you) there will be a section giving your address and a section "Français par" which indicates on what basis your birth was registered in Nantes (which is where all French citizens born outside France are registered). This will also contain all the "margin notes" - like for marriages, divorces, etc. and when they send it to you they will stamp it with the date it was sent out and the signature of a civil service officer.

As it says in the link, you can request it by mail and should receive it fairly promptly. But what you'll need is an official copy from Nantes.


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## MIM89

BackinFrance said:


> DEMCNF-MONDE.PDF
> 
> But I don't see how you would get it in time.
> 
> I would suggest you visit the French Consulate in Amsterdam and see if they can come up with a solution.


Thanks for this direct term to google. I have this exact document now: https://www.tribunal-de-paris.justice.fr/sites/default/files/2018-12/DEMCNF-MONDE.pdf
I found that this DEMCNF-MONDE.PDF document is linked to from this website which does look very official. It also has a list of documents to attach. So I think this is exactly what I need, my only problem is that the addresses to send the application do not do not match.

Address from service-public.fr website: 
Parvis du Tribunal de Paris
29-45 avenue de la Porte de Clichy
75859 PARIS CEDEX 17 

Address from DEMANDE DE CERTIFICAT DE NATIONALITÉ FRANÇAISE: 
Tribunal d’instance de Paris
Pôle de la Naonalité française
Cabinets Monde Parvis du Tribunal
75017 PARIS

I think Google maps tells me these two addresses, with different postcodes, are the same building? Will my application get lost in a mailroom if I address it to the wrong one?



Xyz789 said:


> Fellow Aussie dual national here. When I went through the process for my kids a few years ago, they didn't require any paperwork other than birth certificates (ie on the basis of those they accepted my other nationality, not French, was from birth rather than acquired at a later date).
> 
> I don't have any knowledge of the CNF process I'm afraid but did you receive your follow up request by email? (I did - it was a few years ago, but after the process was centralised). If so, could you contact them to ask for clarification? Would they accept a generic French gov document that explains at a high level how French citizenship by descent is conferred in your circumstances? As if they will accept an alternative to the CNF, perhaps the French consulate in Australia may have helped with similar queries in the past and can point you in the right direction. The Australian Embassy in France may not be much help, now that the process is centralised.


Hi! The request is by email for additional info and is pretty specific in what they want. I was also thinking if I could demonstrate that under French law I am automatically French by birth it would be enough, but I think this is something I would need a lawyer to help with in order to prepare a convincing formal argument which sounds like a rabbit hole and the Australian government may not accept it anyway.



Bevdeforges said:


> Is what you have an official copy of your French birth certificate from Nantes? Should be a full page document titled "Acte de Naissance" with a Dossier number and Acte number on the top line. If you order this from Nantes (using the link in the reference I gave you) there will be a section giving your address and a section "Français par" which indicates on what basis your birth was registered in Nantes (which is where all French citizens born outside France are registered). This will also contain all the "margin notes" - like for marriages, divorces, etc. and when they send it to you they will stamp it with the date it was sent out and the signature of a civil service officer.
> 
> As it says in the link, you can request it by mail and should receive it fairly promptly. But what you'll need is an official copy from Nantes.


Yes, I do have one from Nantes, I requested a new full copy and it is now in my documents on the service-public.fr website. It is exactly a duplicate of the paper one I have from years ago which is basically a big block of text with a few numbered sections on new lines. It does say "Acte de Naissance" along with 3 different reference numbers in different places at the top, plus the digital ID at the bottom. I also requested a full copy of my mother's birth certificate, and the layout is a little different from mine, but the content is the same, only with an additional hand-written note on the left side regarding her marriage to my father. There is no mention of her nationality. It also clearly states at the top that it is a transcription, is there any alternative?

Thanks for all the replies!


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## balthy

The Australian govt has given you 28 days to come up with what you need. A CNF application can take up to 3 years when applied for outside of France.

My mothers BC is the same as you describe, it’s in the normal register for French people born in France, it looks nothing like mine which was registered in Nantes so it sounds ok.

If you need a name of a lawyer who might help in some way, I can send you details privately of a lawyer who helped me with my French passport as it was refused. This recommendation was very kindly passed to me from another poster on this forum.


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## Xyz789

MIM89 said:


> Thanks for this direct term to google. I have this exact document now: https://www.tribunal-de-paris.justice.fr/sites/default/files/2018-12/DEMCNF-MONDE.pdf
> I found that this DEMCNF-MONDE.PDF document is linked to from this website which does look very official. It also has a list of documents to attach. So I think this is exactly what I need, my only problem is that the addresses to send the application do not do not match.
> 
> Address from service-public.fr website:
> Parvis du Tribunal de Paris
> 29-45 avenue de la Porte de Clichy
> 75859 PARIS CEDEX 17
> 
> Address from DEMANDE DE CERTIFICAT DE NATIONALITÉ FRANÇAISE:
> Tribunal d’instance de Paris
> Pôle de la Naonalité française
> Cabinets Monde Parvis du Tribunal
> 75017 PARIS
> 
> I think Google maps tells me these two addresses, with different postcodes, are the same building? Will my application get lost in a mailroom if I address it to the wrong one?
> 
> 
> Hi! The request is by email for additional info and is pretty specific in what they want. I was also thinking if I could demonstrate that under French law I am automatically French by birth it would be enough, but I think this is something I would need a lawyer to help with in order to prepare a convincing formal argument which sounds like a rabbit hole and the Australian government may not accept it anyway.
> 
> 
> Yes, I do have one from Nantes, I requested a new full copy and it is now in my documents on the service-public.fr website. It is exactly a duplicate of the paper one I have from years ago which is basically a big block of text with a few numbered sections on new lines. It does say "Acte de Naissance" along with 3 different reference numbers in different places at the top, plus the digital ID at the bottom. I also requested a full copy of my mother's birth certificate, and the layout is a little different from mine, but the content is the same, only with an additional hand-written note on the left side regarding her marriage to my father. There is no mention of her nationality. It also clearly states at the top that it is a transcription, is there any alternative?
> 
> Thanks for all the replies!


I think it's still worth asking by return email exactly what they will accept before you go to the effort of a CNF / instructing a lawyer. I assume that so far you have just completed the form and uploaded your Australian birth certificate and your child's birth certificate as part of the application? In my case I also received a request for additional documentation about the date and method of acquisition of foreign citizenship but resolved it by follow up email and didn't actually have to provide any further formal evidence in the end. In your case, they may accept something that is a easier to obtain than a CNF (you could list what you already have, as mentioned above, unless I have misunderstood and you have already supplied this). 

Good luck


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## Poloss

Even for French nationals with French ancestors going back generations and living permanently in France, obtaining their CNF just isn't possible in under two or three months.
It's certainly faster if you're resident in France than living elsewhere in the world 
- you simply go to the local court of justice in the departement where you live 
if and when they're open for business (like one afternoon per week if no holidays/sick leave etc)

The French consulate in Amsterdam sends you to a "service public" webpage for a CNF application
which in turn sends you to the Tribunal Judiciaire de Paris (pôle de la nationalité française) - 
they state that you can apply by postmail or *in person.*

So you can travel to Paris - if and when they give you a rendez-vous - with all the necessary documents.
List of documents and authentified translations is on the service public webpage once you've entered some personal info.
They state that the list is only a guideline and other documents may be required ...









Certificat de nationalité française (CNF)


Vous avez besoin de prouver votre nationalité française ? Vous pouvez demander un certificat de nationalité française (CNF). Ce document officiel est délivré par le greffe des tribunaux. Le tribunal auquel adresser votre demande dépend de votre lieu de naissance et de votre domicile. La démarche...




www.service-public.fr


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## MIM89

Hi,

Thanks for your replies! Sorry, I did not respond sooner. I ended up submitting every piece of French document I could find for myself, my mother, and my grandmother and prefixed every filename with 'proof of citizenship by descent - '. Either official multilingual documents or certified translated to English. It has been 4 weeks now and I still have not had a response from the Australian government, so I still hope they will approve that. If they reject again, I will approach an immigration lawyer to draft a letter explaining the situation.

In the meantime, I gathered all of the documents finally and submitted my CNF application yesterday. Thank you for the advice in this process, it was very helpful. I mailed my application in, but I put my place of residence as my parent's house in Australia as I don't plan on living here for the next 2-3 years. I still have bank statements from Australia in my name to show the required proof of address there.

Thanks again!


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