# Heating costs



## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

As many of you know, we're involved in a building/rebuilding project & we've just had a new pellet burning boiler installed so I thought I'd give you a quick update on costs.

We run our boiler for about 15 or 16 hours a day, every day and at the moment, are heating 8 radiators consisting of a total of about 68 heating elements on them.

The diesel boiler was costing something in the region of €10 per day to run and our new wood pellet burning boiler that was installed yesterday has cost us €3 to run for the same period...... as we're testing the new boiler we've had it running at a slightly hotter setting so a like for like comparison would probably bring that €3 figure slightly lower.


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## weatherwatcher (Nov 27, 2011)

*heating costs*

Forgive us for asking and you've probably already told the forum but can we ask how much your pellet boiler has cost you and did you have new radiators or have you been able to use the old ones, have you had all the radiators switched on or are you just using a few. thanks in advance


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

We currently have 8 rads in the main house & the barn will have another 10 or so & the new boiler will serve all of them.

Prices vary immensely depending on output, quality, country of manufacture & purchase etc & of course each house has different needs so my costs are irrelevant to others but FWIW, some of the best prices are on amazon.co.uk (polish made). Good German made ones at Thermoflux Deutschland GmbH Ihr Partner für alternative Heiztechnik & a good though more expensive Portuguese make is Hidramatik.

You can search on the term 'wood pellet burning boiler'

There's a Thermo Flux agent in Leiria but I'd recommend people to avoid him like the plague.


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## Maggy Crawford (Sep 18, 2010)

I don't know if this is relevant as we don't have a pellet burning stove but at Leroy Merlin in Coimbra on Tuesday there was a sign saying that there was no supply of pellets due to a problem with the supplier. I do not know anything more than that but thought I would share it in case it is of use.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Maggy

Thanks for the tip.

FWIW, I bought my first lot & will continue to buy from the pellet manufacturer near Sintra where prices are €1 per 15 kg bag less than in Intermarche etc.

They also make & sell briquettes of the same stuff for wood burning boilers if that's of interest to you.


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## BodgieMcBodge (Mar 8, 2013)

Hi,

Are the two boilers similar output in kW? Do they both run with the same temp control, ie get up to temperature then cycle on/off to maintain the temperature OR get up to temperature then run at 25% output to maintain the temperature? Did you bulk buy oil and pellets to get discounts?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Fuel Oil you can only buy in bulk some suppliers might have min delivery quantity, price as a heating fuel now expensive due to increase in IVA from 6 to 23% plus it follows price of oil one of reasons we switched to pellet


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

The diesel boiler was in when we bought the property & at a max of 43 kw is much higher output than the house needs.

We did the calculation for both house & barn combined & it came out to 23 kw or so & so decided to put in a 30 kw pellet boiler in.

At the moment, the pellet boiler is heating just the house & even at it's lowest setting, we have to turn some of the rads off so I reckon either boiler will be more than enough to heat both house & barn combined.

The boilers each have their own controls & yes, they cycle on & off to maintain temperature.

Regarding pellet prices....... 4 of us in the same area wanted pellets or briquettes & as one has a biggish truck, we all got together & made bulk buy, filled the truck up & split the costs. 

I bought 40 bags but next time will buy 100 & I reckon that'll probably take me through to summer.


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## BodgieMcBodge (Mar 8, 2013)

Hi,

A Mazot/GasOil boiler and a pellet boiler have about the same efficency for the same spec as per UK SAP tables. 

The heat content of the fuel is usually taken as 

one liter Mazot/GasOil = 2.5 kg pellet Biomass

So if you plug in your numbers (last price I saw was bulk Pellets 20c a Kg) you can work out the relative running costs, and the payback time if fuel price remain static. Did find the strange anomaly that Mazot in 20L cans worked out cheaper then 1000L pro rata but as we had a set up running WVO (waste Veg oil) we didn't take advantage of it.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I think you mean the treated cooking oil thing instead of proper diesel?

If so, I've never tried it in either my car or my CH boiler but have always been a been a bit chary about that just in case it causes problems...... I've always worked on the principle that good oil & regular maintenance is the right way to treat these things and old habits die hard with me.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

A litre of fuel oil appo 1.309€ 2.5kilo of pellets appox 62.5c under half, this was calculation we used when deciding to replace diesel burner with pellet burner and estimated 2.5 years payback, but we are heavy handed with heat.

Don't be;believe I've seen Mazoil or reclaimed oil on salealthough produced here in Portugal and believe it's all remixed in at refineries,


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## BodgieMcBodge (Mar 8, 2013)

Waste Veg oil filtered to the standard 2 microns - not chemically treated cooking oil which is usually transesterfied Biodiesel- the burner and pump difffer slightly from a Mazot/GasOil only set up and will run the higher viscosity 100% WVO and lower viscosity 100% Mazot/GasOil and any mix of the two. There's quite a range of waste oil central heating systems commercially available and as the feed stock is generally free or sometimes the producer pays for it to be disposed of it's a fraction of the price of any other heating fuel. Mazot/GasOil is normal mineral heating oil/diesel it is not veg oil.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Maybe, but not but in Portugal with all the various controls etc you'd only be able to use this on a private under the radar basis, bulk supplies of raw material also extremely difficult to source


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## BodgieMcBodge (Mar 8, 2013)

What the source of this information? """ but not but in Portugal with all the various controls etc you'd only be able to use this on a private under the radar basis, bulk supplies of raw material also extremely difficult to source ""

The suppliers and installers of a couple of waste oil heating systems in Portugal have told me veg oil Europewide is regarded as biodegradable and a non-pollutant unlike the standard mazot heating oil so has a different UN class and ADR rules and bunkering are far easier.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Portugal is possibly one of the most "licensed" countries in EU, recycle "home" oil is now possible with collection bins widespread and a friend in the North of the country has a recycling plant not far from him at Ponte de Barca and has had a tour round but end product goes off to refineries.

Motor oil as an example my local garage won't do an oil change because of cost of licence and requirements.

I can't quote you a regulation but if motor oil & agricultural diesel is controlled and licensed to the degree it is then it is extremely unlikely veg oil is not subject to same, plus I have never seen or heard of product on sale.

If you have Portuguese contacts then maybe they can supply where and cost of this "oil" to purchase, which would be of interest to anyone still running "diesel" boilers


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I personally can't understand why anyone would own a boiler or a car worth thousands and then try to save a few cents per litre on running it on dodgy fuel that has no additives etc in it.

Definitely not for me!


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

With boiler it's only really a matter of having correct injector for fuel source, you don't have the moving parts associated with an engine


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

I can appreciate that but I just couldn't bring myself to do it....... It's a bit like owning a USD20000 custom made rifle & then putting soft lead bullets through it just to save a little on ammo costs. 

It might be silly but I just can't bring myself to do such things! lol


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

I agree with a modern diesel car but a diesel boiler is an extremely basic item and doesn't reguire the additives etc for its longevity more important to service filters regularly and replace jet at recommended intervals


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