# Realization



## 197649 (Jan 1, 2013)

It took a while 3 years to get through my thick skull. This does not apply to all but I am sure the majority. 
Growing up if I did not do as my parents told me I got my butt whipped. In school I would get the paddle or suspended my decision. So following rules is a part of my life. These days it’s the opposite. If a child is disciplined the parents are then punished, schools are sued because a parent don’t like the curriculum. 
I spend 20 years in the military and another 15 as a contractor to the military. During that time, I followed the rules and regulations. This instilled discipline in me.
Here in PI children go outside to play sometimes in the road without any adults around. They drive cars and motorcycles without licenses or insurance, they are given the freedom to do as they wish without supervision. So as an adult they do not know what discipline or rules are.
Even the laws here are only a suggestion! But then if you’re a foreigner the rules apply differently. In America this is discrimination but we are not in America so that rule does not apply.
It’s hard for me to understand because of my upbringing and career. I was taught to be honest but here if your honest you hurt peoples feeling and that is not an acceptable quality to have here. 
My wife has said a 100 times to me it’s none of your business. She is right but my upbringing and life experiences it’s hard for me to let it be. 
As the old Serenity saying goes by Reinhold Niebuhr
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. 

I just cannot find the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. 
Venting complete but still looking for this serenity place love to go there, maybe for me to get there I must consume a calming product.


----------



## lkarlovsky (Jan 4, 2013)

Feel your pain and see the same thing with the kids makes me sad. But it is not our country. Peace my friends.


----------



## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

Wife tells me the same thing when I complain in the car, she says "mind my own business" and she also adds quit worrying about it.

I've learned to relax some now while driving and have got used to the all the usual slow ups in the road, I don't even honk anymore, I just edge close and wait patiently in the car. There are no such thing as sidewalks in our area, maybe along the highway (newer construction), cars and trikes parked nearly in the center of the road or double parked, it's a challenge every day I try to get out of our Municipality.


----------



## UltraFJ40 (May 20, 2014)

Well, it affects me the same here in South Florida. Maybe not so much the mass cluster-f**k but my inability to accept things that aren't "black & white". I think the military did that to me, I mean, it either is or it isn't, right? Things are either right or wrong, pretty simple if you ask me.

I know and realize that the "line of life" is only black or white at the very ends. Everything else (98%) is grey.

This is one of my biggest obstacles regardless of where I'm located. So I guess what I'm saying we're probably just crotchety old bastids but it is nice knowing I'm not alone.


----------



## JRB__NW (Apr 8, 2015)

Nature contains many shades of grey, continuums, etc.. it is the way of life. But rules are meant to be black and white for a reason - so there is no real time interpretation going on, as everyone would come to different conclusions. This acceptance and understanding of how rules work is what we learned, and what allows increasingly more crowded societies to safely and efficiently co-exist together. Understanding that we all can't do whatever we please if it infringes on others. However, rules have to be consistently enforced in order to be effective.

Unfortunately, here in the Philippines, there is very little rule enforcement, whether on the roads or in life generally. No policing of behavior, and those that do the policing willingly accept a small 'token of appreciation' to look the other way. As a result, the way people behave here always reminds me of high school - everyone doing as they please, with no comprehension of possible negative consequences, or consideration for others. 

Walking across a crowded street with a small child in tow, driving on the wrong side, passing on blind curves, crowding into intersections when the other direction has the light.. running an open exhaust pipe that annoys others, spewing diesel exhaust smoke out of a jeepney like a cloud, and throwing trash onto the street are things one sees *constantly*. This Sunday morning I was awoken (along with many others I'm sure) by thumping pop music from the village below at 6am. Some a$$hole decided it was time to party. These are the behaviors that will ultimately limit my time here. 

Yes, I can control myself and check my ego when driving, but when the juvenile behavior affects my safety, health and wellness, I can also make the choice to leave. I do feel sorry for those, especially the elderly, who have no options but to put up with it.


----------



## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Seems we all deal with the same things wherever you are located in this country. She spent almost 2 years in the US with me before we moved here and she makes the comment that "these people are so undisiplined" and I can't do anything but agree. I have slowly raised my tolerance level in order to deal with it. You will either have to learn to tolerate it or leave, cause you certainly are not going to change this country, at least not in our lifetime.

Fred


----------



## colemanlee (Nov 17, 2014)

I think thats where the five year syndrome comes from, seems thats about the time it takes to either get use to it, or get so tired of it you just leave....at least it seems that way watching a lot of expats over the years....


----------



## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

colemanlee said:


> I think thats where the five year syndrome comes from, seems thats about the time it takes to either get use to it, or get so tired of it you just leave....at least it seems that way watching a lot of expats over the years....


For us old Military types, it is very hard to mellow out enough to deal with the undisiplined masses.

Fred


----------



## colemanlee (Nov 17, 2014)

fmartin_gila said:


> For us old Military types, it is very hard to mellow out enough to deal with the undisiplined masses.
> 
> Fred


I agree with that 100%....with everything here...from the country to family, but I have noticed with family (which is the only thing I can affect) If I stay the course, eventually they get it...to some extent...


----------



## panayjim (Apr 15, 2015)

Consideration for others, good manners, seeing it from the other person's point of view, etc., seem in short supply here. I just accept that as a given and don't expect too much. The SOP here seems to be 'me first'.... ako muna. I just accept it and am pleased when I run across nice people.


----------



## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

c_acton98 said:


> "...children go outside to play sometimes in the road without any adults around. They drive cars and motorcycles without licenses or insurance, they are given the freedom to do as they wish without supervision. So as an adult they do not know what discipline or rules are..."
> .


A civilized society needs the rule of law in order to function, and sometimes it seems that this place is backsliding into the animal kingdom. (It seems that all of my neighbors over here are addicted to shabu, and they have children as young as two or three playing in the street without any clothes on.) 

Also, I kinda wonder what's the deal with the so called "Justice Reform" that the Demos keep talking about back home, and I wonder if maybe their plan isn't actually to weaken the rule of law just enough so that certain groups are no longer being sent to prison in large numbers? (If we can't get certain people to follow the rule of law, then maybe the thing to do is remove the laws so that people are no longer going to prison.) Those who are advocating justice reform in the US should come over here and see what happens when you do away with the rule of law.


----------



## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Shabu or Cocain*



Maxx62 said:


> A civilized society needs the rule of law in order to function, and sometimes it seems that this place is backsliding into the animal kingdom. (It seems that all of my neighbors over here are addicted to shabu, and they have children as young as two or three playing in the street without any clothes on.)
> 
> Also, I kinda wonder what's the deal with the so called "Justice Reform" that the Demos keep talking about back home, and I wonder if maybe their plan isn't actually to weaken the rule of law just enough so that certain groups are no longer being sent to prison in large numbers? (If we can't get certain people to follow the rule of law, then maybe the thing to do is remove the laws so that people are no longer going to prison.) Those who are advocating justice reform in the US should come over here and see what happens when you do away with the rule of law.


In-law and her husband both are locked up for selling Shabu (Cocaine) they have 8 kids and 10 years ago we adopted our son from her. In-laws also used to dog my wife out saying she sold Cocaine and our house was used for hookers, we had no idea that they had been selling drugs for years till this in-law got locked up, it's going on 2 years...LOL and for sure the family had been not only taking care of our children but also using it as a house of prostitution because men kept coming buy after we assumed the house and kicked their hind ends out...and the other sad fact is that they don't use their names but used my wife's name, all her sisters had done that to her, real clever and cold bunch nothing phases them, they seem impossible to hurt, they don't show any embarrassment and indestructible.

Update on the other in-law she's known as Lucy but I gave her the nickname Lucifer, she had a stroke last year, she wasn't supposed to make it more than 3 days, she used to dog me out while I'm planting tree's or flowers in the yard, minding my own business ... sadly she's still kicking and starting to improve, it's been a year now.


----------



## Maxx62 (Dec 31, 2013)

mcalleyboy said:


> In-law and her husband both are locked up for selling Shabu (Cocaine) they have 8 kids and 10 years ago we adopted our son from her. In-laws also used to dog my wife out saying she sold Cocaine and our house was used for hookers, we had no idea that they had been selling drugs for years till this in-law got locked up, it's going on 2 years...LOL and for sure the family had been not only taking care of our children but also using it as a house of prostitution because men kept coming buy after we assumed the house and kicked their hind ends out...and the other sad fact is that they don't use their names but used my wife's name, all her sisters had done that to her, real clever and cold bunch nothing phases them, they seem impossible to hurt, they don't show any embarrassment and indestructible.
> 
> Update on the other in-law she's known as Lucy but I gave her the nickname Lucifer, she had a stroke last year, she wasn't supposed to make it more than 3 days, she used to dog me out while I'm planting tree's or flowers in the yard, minding my own business ... sadly she's still kicking and starting to improve, it's been a year now.


All I can say is, WOW!


----------



## Tukaram (Dec 18, 2014)

Actually I enjoy the laid back attitude here. Laws are a suggestion... but common sense takes priority - some would say the common sense here is different than ours ha ha. I do admit the laws are applied differently depending on who you are and who you know. It is the same in the US, but not as openly. I just try and avoid legal hassles.

The girls are expected to be mature and take of every thing, and the guys are spoiled. Most men (and pretty much all boys) here have no responsibility, and no discipline. That does get on my nerves somewhat, but I ain't gonna try and change anything. I just enjoy being taken care of


----------



## fuji0001 (May 5, 2014)

As someone who has only dabbled with the idea of moving to the Phils, and have read this forum for about a year, i want to thank all of you for your candor and tell-it-like-it-is posts in the forum. This thread should be nailed at the front of this forum for all the day-dreamers and hope-to's-somedays posters. Those who are interested in relo can tabulate all the cost of living speadsheets, and where-to-live profiles, to their hearts content, but at the end of the day it is can-i-handle-the-change which is still what i am thinking through. thanks again to all of you.

disclaimer -- i have met my GF's family in Davao and they are all well educated and earnest business people, so i do not face some of the issues discuss here, but the overall them of rule of law or lack thereof is telling and something i witnessed if not experienced first hand


----------



## 197649 (Jan 1, 2013)

This is as close to a lawlessness as you can get.


----------



## esv1226 (Mar 13, 2014)

We were in the Philippines almost 3 years. We needed to get away for a while. We've been in the US for 3 months, and I don't know if we'll return someday. 
"Why are you returning?". My response, "the novelty of living in the Philippines has worn off".
We were "resolved to make it here" when we moved. But there are many little things that are annoying and they don't go away. To continue to be happily settled, one must accept the flaws and shortcomings of the people and country. They won't change, would you?


----------



## colemanlee (Nov 17, 2014)

Actually, I suppose there are some/alot of us that can thrive in the atmosphere here, I seem to be even though I have my days and sometimes months that I get fed up...another forum Im on just had a discussion on the corruptness of the government...that nobody pays attention (outside of Manila) to the laws....actually if your adaptable you can use that to your advantage, yep its who you know...so get to know a lot of people....Im not talking become a criminal, Im talking making life easier on you and your family...buying land, getting paper work done, getting business permits..the list goes on....if you know folks it can be so much easier...which is why I guess I know very few expats here where I live..I learned very early in life, thanks to the USMC, if your gona play in somebody elses sand box, you better know their rules.....


----------



## Strapsure (Nov 13, 2015)

panayjim said:


> Consideration for others, good manners, seeing it from the other person's point of view, etc., seem in short supply here. I just accept that as a given and don't expect too much. The SOP here seems to be 'me first'.... ako muna. I just accept it and am pleased when I run across nice people.


Interesting and accurate point of view. I've been here 14 years and have mastered the art of the Filipino 'No'.... i.e. I say 'Maybe' and smile. Just be feckless and irresponsible like the local guys and you've got it made. I laugh at the idiotic driving and whenever anyone asks for money now I just say 'Maybe'. My wife is a middle-class, educated lady and is embarrassed herself by the way-of-life here, but even she sponges like you wouldn't believe, as do her entire family, so any request now is met with a 'Maybe'. Latest was she wanted an ipad for our daughter (actually for her, having wrecked her own!) and for the last 6/12 I've said, 'Maybe'. Now her Filipina sister (in the US!) has sent her money for one. If enough of us just stop... the penny will drop!


----------



## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Strapsure said:


> Interesting and accurate point of view. I've been here 14 years and have mastered the art of the Filipino 'No'.... i.e. I say 'Maybe' and smile. Just be feckless and irresponsible like the local guys and you've got it made. I laugh at the idiotic driving and whenever anyone asks for money now I just say 'Maybe'. My wife is a middle-class, educated lady and is embarrassed herself by the way-of-life here, but even she sponges like you wouldn't believe, as do her entire family, so any request now is met with a 'Maybe'. Latest was she wanted an ipad for our daughter (actually for her, having wrecked her own!) and for the last 6/12 I've said, 'Maybe'. Now her Filipina sister (in the US!) has sent her money for one. If enough of us just stop... the penny will drop!


I've just got to the point of a flatout "Hindi"

Fred


----------



## M.C.A. (Feb 24, 2013)

*Bank of England, Bank of America*



Strapsure said:


> Interesting and accurate point of view. I've been here 14 years and have mastered the art of the Filipino 'No'.... i.e. I say 'Maybe' and smile. Just be feckless and irresponsible like the local guys and you've got it made. I laugh at the idiotic driving and whenever anyone asks for money now I just say 'Maybe'. My wife is a middle-class, educated lady and is embarrassed herself by the way-of-life here, but even she sponges like you wouldn't believe, as do her entire family, so any request now is met with a 'Maybe'. Latest was she wanted an ipad for our daughter (actually for her, having wrecked her own!) and for the last 6/12 I've said, 'Maybe'. Now her Filipina sister (in the US!) has sent her money for one. If enough of us just stop... the penny will drop!


I like your take, I also started doing it this way, I got tired of saying "No" or I'm on a pension because nobody will buy that, so I just sit there and listen and hear them beg for money as if I'm a walking free bank and also I'd like to add a free dine in restaurant and party happening spot, but no more...

My neighbors invited me over for drinking, I brought a beer and it was okay at first and then this guy couldn't stop begging for money, he didn't want to get a loan from the 5/6 guy and he wanted an interest free one week loan. I stayed for a while and just nodded my head and smiled and after he asked me the 4th time I mentioned that I've got to go get things taken care of at the house, there's no reason to say yes or no it's a wasted cause.

Wonder how do you deal with aggressive beggars though? This lady and another guy keep dogging me at the grocery store, they carry the baby, I don't always have 5 or 10 peso's, and then the spotter also needs payment, I feel these guys watch our vehicle for a small token amount of 5 peso's, so my money went to him but they both gave signals to somebody else? that they had got or didn't get money, I kept my windows rolled up and the women kept begging me and when I didn't' give here anything she gave a signal with her arm up in the air and twisting to somebody on the other side of the car, I backed up and gave 20 pesos' (didn't have change) to the spotter and he also raised his arm up and gave another signal to somebody in the same direction, only thing I can think of it's some sort of syndicate in Pagsanjan Laguana,  they push hard in and around the malls and stores in this area, they used to be located in Sta Cruz Laguna but they seem to have moved farther south now.


----------



## Strapsure (Nov 13, 2015)

mcalleyboy said:


> I like your take, I also started doing it this way, I got tired of saying "No" or I'm on a pension because nobody will buy that, so I just sit there and listen and hear them beg for money as if I'm a walking free bank and also I'd like to add a free dine in restaurant and party happening spot, but no more...
> 
> My neighbors invited me over for drinking, I brought a beer and it was okay at first and then this guy couldn't stop begging for money, he didn't want to get a loan from the 5/6 guy and he wanted an interest free one week loan. I stayed for a while and just nodded my head and smiled and after he asked me the 4th time I mentioned that I've got to go get things taken care of at the house, there's no reason to say yes or no it's a wasted cause.
> 
> Wonder how do you deal with aggressive beggars though? This lady and another guy keep dogging me at the grocery store, they carry the baby, I don't always have 5 or 10 peso's, and then the spotter also needs payment, I feel these guys watch our vehicle for a small token amount of 5 peso's, so my money went to him but they both gave signals to somebody else? that they had got or didn't get money, I kept my windows rolled up and the women kept begging me and when I didn't' give here anything she gave a signal with her arm up in the air and twisting to somebody on the other side of the car, I backed up and gave 20 pesos' (didn't have change) to the spotter and he also raised his arm up and gave another signal to somebody in the same direction, only thing I can think of it's some sort of syndicate in Pagsanjan Laguana,  they push hard in and around the malls and stores in this area, they used to be located in Sta Cruz Laguna but they seem to have moved farther south now.



Ah, this is a region where I have a distinct advantage! At first, with street kids, I'd buy them milk when they asked for money to eat, but judging by the faces, it was as if I'd pooped in a swimming pool. 

I have two daughters and my eldest has Down syndrome. So... as the rif-raf drift towards me (I'm WASP.. so the assumption is I'm American) I do my pre-emptive strike and put my hand out asking for 'money for school' for my daughter who is 10 years old. In the Philippines schools for Special Needs kids are all private it seems. It's hard, and cruel, but I always smile and never get aggressive. That took time to learn but now I just flat refuse to give anything and until we all do the same, we are just feeding the problem. It kills tourism here stone dead. 

I bought a condo out at Boracay for holidays 10 years ago and even then it was getting over-developed. I was assured development was being regulated (this was in my early days before I understood the concept of the Filipino lie!) so went ahead. Now I note even Boracay is becoming a s%*t-hole full of hustlers and beggars ... talk about killing the golden goose! I think we all just harden up with time?


----------



## Asian Spirit (Mar 1, 2010)

Strapsure said:


> Ah, this is a region where I have a distinct advantage! At first, with street kids, I'd buy them milk when they asked for money to eat


I/we have kids also; four of them.
While we all like to help children, here in *paradise* there can be an ugly catch waiting to grab you.

In many areas the police run the street kids for everything from prostitution to selling drugs.
It pays to be most careful when giving street kids money or even food items. If that street kid is under police "ownership", they can and will charge you with attempted solicitation for sex with a minor. It's a set-up in which you can not win. Challenge it in court and you'll rot in a Philippine prison. Or you can pay the nice policeman a minimum of $2,000us dollars or whatever they demand to make the problem go away.
It happens and no matter how bad we may feel for kids--it's just not worth the risk.



Regards

Jet Lag


----------



## fmartin_gila (May 15, 2011)

Jet Lag said:


> I/we have kids also; four of them.
> While we all like to help children, here in *paradise* there can be an ugly catch waiting to grab you.
> 
> In many areas the police run the street kids for everything from prostitution to selling drugs.
> ...


All the more reason for a glaring look and a very stern "hindi"

Fred


----------

