# Do they do RSJs in France?



## philthompson23

Hi all,

just wondering if anyone knew what an RSJ would be called in French? Looking to knock down an ancient stone wall that separates kitchen from entrance room to make a bigger kitchen. Ideally like to use timber but if steel is the better bet and can be disguised maybe that’s the route.

cheers


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## Bevdeforges

Well, I find online that what you call an RSJ is an IPN here in France. (The person offering the French term admitted to not knowing what the letters stand for - but it means the same thing apparently.)

Boy, you're planning on doing lots of renovation on your place.


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## BackinFrance

Yes, it's an In France. For the sort of thing you are considering doing, it's best to get professional advice simply because you need to be sure it will take the weight.


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## philthompson23

BackinFrance said:


> Yes, it's an In France. For the sort of thing you are considering doing, it's best to get professional advice simply because you need to be sure it will take the weight.


I am but i find anecdotes from forum members interesting and informative. Obviously I’m not going to DIY it because random expat says “just go down bricodepot mate and find a bit of metal and chuck it up, jobs a goodun”


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## BackinFrance

philthompson23 said:


> I am but i find anecdotes from forum members interesting and informative. Obviously I’m not going to DIY it because random expat says “just go down bricodepot mate and find a bit of metal and chuck it up, jobs a goodun”


OK. If you really want timber, then seek out a good charpentier. If it is an old building, and certainly if it is stone, then it will have settled and the weight will not be evenly spread across the opening you want to make. In such circumstances it is certainly better to over-engineer.


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## philthompson23

BackinFrance said:


> OK. If you really want timber, then seek out a good charpentier. If it is an old building, and certainly if it is stone, then it will have settled and the weight will not be evenly spread across the opening you want to make. In such circumstances it is certainly better to over-engineer.


I’m looking at a 4 metre opening. Would timber work here or better bet steel? I’ve seen steel clad in oak that looked good


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## BackinFrance

philthompson23 said:


> I’m looking at a 4 metre opening. Would timber work here or better bet steel? I’ve seen steel clad in oak that looked good


Steel can be clad in oak and a suitable timber beam might be more expensive. You get the quotes for both and then make the decision


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## Yours truly confused

philthompson23 said:


> I’m looking at a 4 metre opening. Would timber work here or better bet steel? I’ve seen steel clad in oak that looked good


We are renovating a little house and need to replace an oak beam that holds up the floor upstairs, it is just under 6 meters long and about 30x30 cm. The new beam will cost around €500 plus then the cost of posing. We had 3 opinions on the viability of the old beam, all said the same, the local wood yard will source, cut and pose the new beam once we have dismantled the old.


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## BackinFrance

BackinFrance said:


> Steel can be clad in oak and a suitable timber beam might be more expensive. You get the quotes for both and then make the decision


TBH if it were me and I could afford it I would go for the oak beam because an oak covered steel beam will eventually de laminate and that could easily occur within 5 years or so. But that's just my opinion and I definitely favour oak.


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## philthompson23

BackinFrance said:


> TBH if it were me and I could afford it I would go for the oak beam because an oak covered steel beam will eventually de laminate and that could easily occur within 5 years or so. But that's just my opinion and I definitely favour oak.


yeha you’re right, steel beam with hollow oak wrapped around is a bit naff. Do you think you could use ancient timber or too risky?


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## BackinFrance

I happen to be of the view that the older the oak the better (some may not agree but I would expect it to be well seasoned).


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## Poloss

philthompson23 said:


> I’m looking at a 4 metre opening. Would timber work here or better bet steel? I’ve seen steel clad in oak that looked good


Seasoned timber.
Most timber sold by construction dealers is still green and may continue to twist and bend.
Find a local sawmill or buy second hand on leboncoin


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## ccm47

We wanted to create an opening onto a terrace with made to measure French doors. The installers said we had to create the RSJ ourselves as the merchants could not supply such a substantial one. My OH did just that during the early summer months. Once the cement cured the shuttering was removed and the doors installed.


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## SPGW

It depends what the beams / IPN will be supporting. I did similar: a 3.5m opening from previous kitchen to new dining area, knocking out a 60cm thick stone supporting wall, replaced by 3 x oak beams, left visible. On the other hand, a 8m length old beam was replaced with a IPN because it supports everything upstairs, and because 8m oak beams are not easily obtainable. The IPN is encased in a new partition wall, allowing also a "zone technique" for cables, water pipes, VMC conduit etc.... so it depends on your configuration. Personally, I have never seen a IPN with oak cladding that looks like anything other than a false oak beam.


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## philthompson23

SPGW said:


> It depends what the beams / IPN will be supporting. I did similar: a 3.5m opening from previous kitchen to new dining area, knocking out a 60cm thick stone supporting wall, replaced by 3 x oak beams, left visible. On the other hand, a 8m length old beam was replaced with a IPN because it supports everything upstairs, and because 8m oak beams are not easily obtainable. The IPN is encased in a new partition wall, allowing also a "zone technique" for cables, water pipes, VMC conduit etc.... so it depends on your configuration. Personally, I have never seen a IPN with oak cladding that looks like anything other than a false oak beam.


Sounds very similar to my situation. Did you do it yourself? Way beyond me I think, just want it done properly. How long does it take to break a 60cm thick stone wall down that’s 3.5m? Reckon it’ll be a pricey job ? Got any pictures ?


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## SPGW

This gives an idea. I'm not equipped to do that alone and wouldn't trust myself with structural work so had it done professionally. They were 3 and it took about a week. Hope that helps.


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## philthompson23

SPGW said:


> View attachment 102666
> 
> 
> This gives an idea. I'm not equipped to do that alone and wouldn't trust myself with structural work so had it done professionally. They were 3 and it took about a week. Hope that helps.


That looks proper! Lovely job. My I ask how much they charged? Really don’t know what something like this should cost so don’t want to get mugged off. (Appreciate this May have been some years ago?)


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## SPGW

It was in 2021, came to € 6800 before tax, including the 3 oak beams and the rebuilding with stone work...


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## philthompson23

SPGW said:


> It was in 2021, came to € 6800 before tax, including the 3 oak beams and the rebuilding with stone work...


Seems reasonable I guess. Was there a cheaper option where they dont have to make the stone work all flush like that?


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## SPGW

Yes. We could have finished it with moellons instead of Pierre de taille, but didn’t get a quote cos that’s not what we wanted.


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## philthompson23

SPGW said:


> Yes. We could have finished it with moellons instead of Pierre de taille, but didn’t get a quote cos that’s not what we wanted.


How does it look now?


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## SPGW

philthompson23 said:


> How does it look now?


The stonework and beams over the opening still look exactly the same (thankfully). There's a stone floor and kitchen fitted beyond, now with insulated walls lining the original, with new windows. Visible RSJ/IPNs would have meant a more industrial look, which doesn't fit with the house.


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## philthompson23

SPGW said:


> The stonework and beams over the opening still look exactly the same (thankfully). There's a stone floor and kitchen fitted beyond, now with insulated walls lining the original, with new windows. Visible RSJ/IPNs would have meant a more industrial look, which doesn't fit with the house.


Got a pic?


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## conky2

WuM


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## SPGW

philthompson23 said:


> Got a pic?


No.
For the “uphill waste” question from the barn, separate grey water effluent for irrigating your fruit trees, and install a dry toilet.
Sounds like you need a consultant to advise your project, where is it?


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