# Surrinder singh case



## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

I am a British national married to a non-EU. I was living & working in another European country where we were married. We decided to come and live in the UK. So my husband applied for a UK clearance visa which he got for 6 months. Now we are in the UK. As far as we know we are going to be applying for a resident card under Surrinder Singh due to the fact that I am a British citizen who was living and working abroad for many years. 

It has been 1 year that I am registered as self employed earning about £1100. So my question is my being a sponsor how much money a year do i have to show to the Home Office. 

Do the new rules affect our application despite it being under Surrinder Singh?


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


sophimari said:


> I am a British national married to a non-EU. I was living & working in another European country where we were married. We decided to come and live in the UK. So my husband applied for a UK clearance visa which he got for 6 months. Now we are in the UK. As far as we know we are going to be applying for a resident card under Surrinder Singh due to the fact that I am a British citizen who was living and working abroad for many years.
> 
> It has been 1 year that I am registered as self employed earning about £1100. So my question is my being a sponsor how much money a year do i have to show to the Home Office.
> 
> Do the new rules affect our application despite it being under Surrinder Singh?


Welcome to the Forum!

Could you elaborate further about *UK clearance visa*? Did your husband get an EEA-Family Permit? If so:

1) You/he need to complete form EEA2
2) Submit the same supporting documents you did to obtain his EEA-Family Permit + plenty of evidence (payslips, tax documents, contract of employment) you were exercising treaty rights in another country EU country.
3) If your husband was admitted in UK under the Freedom of Movement, he's not subject to UK immigration rules, yet.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Hello

Yes my husband entered the UK on an EEA family permit visa for 6 months.

With my being a sponsor do i have to be earning £18,600 a year or does it make a difference if the application is under surrinder singh?

Also as our child was born here we receive child benefit and child tax credit. Does this have any affect on the visa?

Thank you


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


sophimari said:


> Hello
> 
> Yes my husband entered the UK on an EEA family permit visa for 6 months.
> 
> With my being a sponsor do i have to be earning £18,600 a year, or does it make a difference if the application is under surrinder singh?


You do not need to earn certain amount to sponsor your husband under Surinder Singh. You need, however, to provide enough evidence you exercised treaty rights in another State, that your husband lived there with you, and that you are currently either working or are self-employed.



sophimari said:


> Also as our child was born here we receive child benefit and child tax credit. Does this have any affect on the visa?
> 
> Thank you


No, it does not.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Thank you for your reply and advice.

Concerning me being a self employed for 1 year, I haven't been depositing money into my account until 4 or 5 months ago. For how long back track must the statement of account be? Also as I have paid the national insurance every 6 months so I have a letter from HMIR on which it states I paid the tax, what else do I need for showing me being self-employed. Also I have flyers and cards. 

Thanks


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


sophimari said:


> Thank you for your reply and advice.
> 
> Concerning me being a self employed for 1 year, I haven't been depositing money into my account until 4 or 5 months ago. For how long back track must the statement of account be? Also as I have paid the national insurance every 6 months so I have a letter from HMIR on which it states I paid the tax, what else do I need for showing me being self-employed. Also I have flyers and cards.
> 
> Thanks


No worries at all!. Read this: SUMMARY 2.-

Animo
(Cheers)


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Hi. 
Thanks for the summary 2 (its quite hard for me to understand though), if I supply the home office with a bank statement of about 4 months is that ok?

Please can you elaborate a little regarding what you sent???

Much appreciated


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


sophimari said:


> Hi.
> Thanks for the summary 2 (its quite hard for me to understand though), if I supply the home office with a bank statement of about 4 months is that ok?
> 
> Please can you elaborate a little regarding what you sent???
> ...


Not a problem:
_
"*Summary:*

*2. *The right of the migrant worker to return and reside in the Member State of which he is a national, after being gainfully employed in another Member State, is conferred by Community law, to the extent necessary to ensure the useful effect of the right to free movement for workers under Article 39 EC and the provisions adopted to give effect to that right, such as those laid down in Regulation No 1612/68 on freedom of movement for workers within the Community. That interpretation is substantiated by the introduction of the status of citizen of the Union, which is intended to be the fundamental status of nationals of the Member States.

*When a worker returns to that latter Member State [UK]of which he [sophimari] is a national, after being gainfully employed in another Member State [Spain/France], a third-country national [her spouse] who is a member of his family has a right under Article 10(1)(a) of Regulation No 1612/68, which applies by analogy, to reside in the State [UK] of which the worker [sophimari] is a national, even where [sophimari] that worker does not carry on any effective and genuine economic activities.*The fact that a third-country national who is a member of a Community worker’s family did not, before residing in the Member State where the worker was employed, have a right under national law to reside in the Member State of which the worker is a national has no bearing on the determination of that national’s right to reside in the latter State."_

In a few words: What matters is what you did in the other State (worker - self-employed), no what you are doing at the moment. 

Animo
(Cheers)


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Ok that is clear for me. I worked in the other member state for over 12 years where i have the paper from its government stating the years i worked and how much national insurance i was paying. Also i have a joint bank account in that country which i can provide the home office with. I will see if i have other evidence to proove we were living together in the other member state.

But pls can you tell me about the bank statement here. Can i give them a statement that which shows only the past 4 or 5 months deposits? This is our worry too....

Thanks


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


sophimari said:


> Ok that is clear for me. I worked in the other member state for over 12 years where i have the paper from its government stating the years i worked and how much national insurance i was paying. Also i have a joint bank account in that country which i can provide the home office with. I will see if i have other evidence to proove we were living together in the other member state.
> 
> But pls can you tell me about the bank statement here. Can i give them a statement that which shows only the past 4 or 5 months deposits? This is our worry too....
> 
> Thanks


If you can provide the equivalent of a P60 per every single year you worked there or three consecutive pay slips per year, for example: Jan,Feb, Mar'05-Jan,Feb,Mar-06. This will suffice that requirement. However, it's imperative you prove you both were living together.

In the regards of the bank statements, please relax and forget about them. They aren't necessary. If I ever mentioned it, is because I must had been in a hurry helping someone else.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Hi again

I dont know if im correct and would be grateful if u can advise me if im correct. would a p60 be the form which the dept of social insurance gives you on which it states all the years (individually) you worked and the insurance contributions? This is what i got from the other member country where i worked?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

sophimari said:


> Hi again
> 
> I dont know if im correct and would be grateful if u can advise me if im correct. would a p60 be the form which the dept of social insurance gives you on which it states all the years (individually) you worked and the insurance contributions? This is what i got from the other member country where i worked?


No. P60 is issued by your employer listing your gross pay, taxable pay, tax paid and national insurance contributions made for the tax year (Apr 6 to Apr 5). You should get it around May each year.


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Thanks for the info. I managed to find only 1 for 2007 its different in the other member state country. the last company i worked for closed down. There is no way to get from there. 

Whereas i got in touch with the dept of social insurances and told thrm i need a form which states sll the years i worked individually and the ins cont i paid. Everything individually.


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

I have the following docs: national insurance contribution letter, some payslips, bank statement showing company name paing salary and smount,contract letter....is there anything else?


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


sophimari said:


> I have the following docs:
> 1) national insurance contribution letter,
> 2) some payslips,
> 3) bank statement showing company name paing salary and smount,
> ...


1) Does this letter comprise all the years you worked in the other State? If it does, you are all set!
2) Are these payslips consistent? Can you at least procure/gather one payslip per every year?
3) If you feel that bank statements must be included, then go for it. I -personally- find this extremely unnecessary.
4) It could become very handy to have.
5) Where's the evidence you lived together with your spouse? tenancy agreement(s), insurance policies, utility bills, mortgage, etc.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Hello again

1. The payslips i have (about 6) are consistent in months at the same company. I cant find others.
2. The letter from the social insurance writes each year individually and the the nat ins I paid in that year.
3. In 2008 we applied for a holiday visa to the UK from the British Consulate in the other member state and I had to supply them with documents we were living together which I dont have now. But I do have the jointbbank book we had which clearly states the address, a letter from the "sheriff" in the city we were living saying we were married and living together at the same address (this letter wad slso given and usef by the British Consulate in 2008), I had car insurance which I had my husband added (but given to the consulate). No utility bills as I own the property in the other member state but could not add my husband as he only had a temporary permit there. My husband also has what the other member country calls an alien registration booklet which registers him as legitimate to reside in the country and it has my address on it after we married and stamped officially by the government. Even after we married my husband had money transferred to his account in the other member state which writes oyr address. We found a couple of these.Are these ok too?
Im so lost as to which other document with my husbands name on and our address...


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


sophimari said:


> Hello again
> 
> 1. The payslips i have (about 6) are consistent in months at the same company. I cant find others.
> 2. The letter from the social insurance writes each year individually and the the nat ins I paid in that year.
> ...


1 & 2 seem acceptable. In regards of 3, the "alien registration booklet" seems to be the more appropriate document to include. But again, the more evidence you provide, the easier you make it for the Euro caseworker to deal with your application.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

You really took alot of stress out of my mind. I forgot to mention that we also have the original visa permit they gave my husband to live in the other member state which ended 2011 and has the address we were living.

Can you slso tell me as we are applying for EEA2 visa since I was out of the UK over 10 years, even yhough we have been living in the UK now for over 2 and s half years will the visa they give him start from the day they issue it or will they take off the time we live here?

Also how long will it take to get it as our case is still open with the Home Office but they returned all the documents to our lawyer and waiting for a fresh application. They said though its not case closed, just waiting for new documents and the new application.

What is your view regarding me being registered self employed and i have the letter from HMIR which states that i paid the Nat. Ins Contributions relevant to the amount of time im self employed. Also i have flyers and business cards. Anything else you can recommend?

Thank you so much for your help


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


sophimari said:


> You really took alot of stress out of my mind. I forgot to mention that we also have the original visa permit they gave my husband to live in the other member state which ended 2011 and has the address we were living.
> 
> Can you slso tell me as we are applying for EEA2 visa since I was out of the UK over 10 years, even yhough we have been living in the UK now for over 2 and s half years will the visa they give him start from the day they issue it or will they take off the time we live here?


The Residence Card he will receive it's valid for 5 years from the date of issuance. There's no such of thing of retroactive option/benefit.



sophimari said:


> Also how long will it take to get it as our *case *is still open with the Home Office but they *returned *all the documents to our* lawyer *and waiting for a fresh application. They said though its not case closed, just waiting for *new documents *and the new application.
> 
> What is your view regarding me being registered self employed and i have the letter from HMIR which states that i paid the Nat. Ins Contributions relevant to the amount of time im self employed. Also i have flyers and business cards. Anything else you can recommend?
> 
> Thank you so much for your help


Have I missed something?

Animo
(Cheers)


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Im registered in the UK as self employed for the past year. What do I need to show the H.O.for this?


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


sophimari said:


> Im registered in the UK as self employed for the past year. What do I need to show the H.O.for this?


I trust this has already been answered, please refer to my 3rd & 4th posts of this thread. If that still doesn't answer your query: any legal document indicating how/why/where/when you became self-employed in the UK. Moreover, you need a letter from your accountant disclosing and elaborating about your business and the nature of your services. Invoices issued for your the goods and services you have provided/supplied your clients with. The most recent bank statements showing incoming/outgoings and finally, any document from HM Revenue & Customs showing you have honorably paid your due taxes. 

Animo
(Cheers)


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Hello again

Its about 5 months that i have been putting money in the account so can i give them a statement from 5 months back?

Concerning the invoice we only have the invpice from the advertising as i brought things over when we moved here. Also a couple which i got when i bought recently some things

I dont use invoices with clients as its a mobile job and they pay cash. Or receipts.

I have all the other paperwork you stated

Please can you advise


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Hi.what do you mean by invoices? Is it possible to buy products now and get 2 or 3 invoices to give the H.O.?


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Also one more question, the accountant who has been doing my accounts from scratch is not chartered. Is it necessary to have a chartered accountant? much sppreciated


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Hello
We are trying to gather all our documents together to give them to the lawyer but are stressing out with one doc. INVOICES FROM SUPPLIERS.

I have an invoice for advertising
Invoices to prove I rented a car throughout my year as self employed as im mobile
Flyers & business cards
Proof from inland revenue that i paid my nat. Ins. Cont.
Rental houing agreement in both our namesp
Council tax bill in both our joint names
* 1 year accounts
* self assessment for firpt 6 months
* accountants letter
Bank statement for the past 4 months
All our passports

Proof we were living together in another member state
Proof that i was working and paying my nat. Ins cont. In the other member state

* = By chartered accountant

Please can anyone tell me what else i need or is this sufficient?

We are worried regarding the invoices. Can i use customer testimonials instead?

Please help as we are in dire straits


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


sophimari said:


> Hello
> We are trying to gather all our documents together to give them to the lawyer but are stressing out with one doc. INVOICES FROM SUPPLIERS.
> 
> I have an invoice for advertising
> ...


Again, you only need to prove that you worked in another EU State, and that you and your husband lived together there before coming to UK. However, I've highlighted what I have used in previous applications.

Since you can't or won't disclose why you need a Lawyer, I will personally be phoning them to make my money's worth.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Hi Jrge,
We preferred to use a lawyer because we thought we didnt want to make any errors filling out the EEA2 form as its about 22 pages. Even though I am a British National I still might make errors and this can jeapordise my husbands visa approval. My husband hasnt been able to go to see his family for nearly 4 years and last year his mother sadly passed away and this is a heavy burden on us because its because its fault of visas. My mother has been diagnosed with Parkinsons and Dimensia and I havent been to see them in the other member state either for 3 years. I must do everything legally and properly so one day he gets the visa and the next day we travel to see our families. 

The reason we point out alot on invoices, my accounts, whether chartered accountant or not, me being self-employed etc is because of the different stories we read. This is our worry. We must make sure we do everything properly.

So in your view and in few words i have the necessary docs for exercising treaty right abroad and as for here, with us living here nearly 3 yrs, 1 year me self employed i need only give the H.O. proof I am registered with inland revenue and pay my national contributions, i have an invoice for advertising and flyers and cards, and thats it?

Thanks


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


sophimari said:


> Hi Jrge,
> We preferred to use a lawyer because we thought we didnt want to make any errors filling out the EEA2 form as its about 22 pages. Even though I am a British National I still might make errors and this can jeapordise my husbands visa approval. My husband hasnt been able to go to see his family for nearly 4 years and last year his mother sadly passed away and this is a heavy burden on us because its because its fault of visas. My mother has been diagnosed with Parkinsons and Dimensia and I havent been to see them in the other member state either for 3 years. I must do everything legally and properly so one day he gets the visa and the next day we travel to see our families.
> 
> The reason we point out alot on invoices, my accounts, whether chartered accountant or not, me being self-employed etc is because of the different stories we read. This is our worry. We must make sure we do everything properly.
> ...


Whilst I'm sympathetic with your personal circumstances, retaining a Lawyer to fill out 3 pages with yours and your husband's personal information + tick in other 3 pages + ask your husband to sign the last page, in my dictionary is throwing money out the window. 

Print off Form EEA2, and fill out pages 6-8-11-12-16-18-20.

Try calmly to do this, do not panic. Should you happen to have a question/query, come back with it. Mind I will answer to you later, or Joppa will pop in to help you.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Thank you so much for your help. You have helped us quite alot. Just something that I remembered. The H.O. sent us a letter stating they need certain documents ie... Invoices and/or customer testimonials, updated letter from accountant, proof from Inland Revenue I am registered as self employed and paying my Nat. Ins. Contr, evidence of advertising. 

We are preparing the following regarding documents for the UK:
1. We bought certain things yesterday and got an invoice, 
2. I have the shipping document proving that i brought over a container from the other member state which states personal effects, 
3. invoice for advertising
4. invoice for car rental used for trsvelling as I am mobile
5. 3 customer testimonials (what must they write and what must the client know)?
6. flyers and cards
7. council tax in both our names
8. Housing rental agreement in both our names
9. bank statement for the past 4 months
10. Letter from accountant
11. Document from Inland Revenue stating I paid my contributions

Can they refuse the visa if we dont give invoices?

Please advise me if I am missing something.

Thank you so so much for your kind help and time


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


sophimari said:


> Thank you so much for your help. You have helped us quite alot. Just something that I remembered. The H.O. sent us a letter stating they need certain documents ie... Invoices and/or customer testimonials, updated letter from accountant, proof from Inland Revenue I am registered as self employed and paying my Nat. Ins. Contr, evidence of advertising.
> 
> We are preparing the following regarding documents for the UK:
> 1. We bought certain things yesterday and got an invoice,
> ...


Since you have applied and the application was rejected, it will be interesting to read the argument you were given.

In the mean time, the invoices they are referring to, are those you issue and send to your clients for the goods and services you provide them with. For example, every time one of my clients calls, I send them an invoice for the time I spent helping them.

Simple provide them with exactly they have asked you, and your application shouldn't be rejected again.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Hello, its me once again....

The reason the app was refused as they stated was because 1. wrong application the first time since the lawyer submitted the EEA not EEA2. Then it was refused because of insufficient documents regarding bank statement then 3 because they need the documents I mentioned in my last thread.

Only problem now is that I didnt use invoices as I didnt know they would ask for them but I can speak to my clients and ask them if they can do customer testimonials instead. This is what we worry about whereas we have everything else.

Also please can you tell me what do the testimonials need to state and what do the clients need to know?

Much appreciated


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


sophimari said:


> Hello, its me once again....
> 
> The reason the app was refused as they stated was because 1. wrong application the first time since the lawyer submitted the EEA not EEA2. Then it was refused because of insufficient documents regarding bank statement then 3 because they need the documents I mentioned in my last thread.
> 
> ...


It doesn't surprise me anymore to see "a lawyer" robbing people with their ignorance.

Moving on, I believe the EURO case worker needs more evidence to justify his decision, due to the several years you have been back to UK. But according to DIRECTIVE 2004/38c you only need to prove that you worked in another EU state and your spouse was living there with you.

A testimonial is just an statement a consumer makes of a product and/or service. For example: how did they hear about you, fliers, website? What kind of services that you offer attracted them to you( in home service, mobile assistance, free delivery)? Are they satisfied? But, how can a testimonial assure you are being honest with the Government? If I were you, I skip those testimonials and will lodge the application with the extra supporting documents you have gathered. 

Have you printed and filled out the form I provided you with? Any questions? If not, let's do it! We need to send that off in the next week.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Thanks for the info. It has helped alot. I will try to get 3 or 4 testimonials. My business is hairdresser thats why i dont have invoices. Even professional salons dont give invoices. So I shall proceed with the testimonials and hopefully whatever the customer decides to write she remembers in case the H.O. call them.

We must now find a chartered accountant as my one is not chartered and everyone states it must be a chartered accountant.

Do you think we can get our file from the lawyer to go ahead ourselves?

One last thing, are the documents I wrote in my thread that we are preparin sufficient to get an approval this time round?


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


sophimari said:


> Thanks for the info. It has helped alot. I will try to get 3 or 4 testimonials. My business is hairdresser thats why i dont have invoices. Even professional salons dont give invoices. So I shall proceed with the testimonials and hopefully whatever the customer decides to write she remembers in case the H.O. call them.
> 
> We must now find a chartered accountant as my one is not chartered and everyone states it must be a chartered accountant.
> 
> ...


Well, hairdressers don't issue invoices but hand out receipts. In terms of the Accountant, I wouldn't be able to rightfully say whether it needs to be Chartered or not. For as long as their practice is legit should suffice.

What documents are still in possession of your lawyer? Let's see how confident you feel after we have gathered all the documents and filled the out the form, then you will decide that on your own.

There are no guaranties on any application, hence let's make a good case.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

...


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

sophimari said:


> Hi there
> 
> Does it matter if we submit with our docs a statement of account showing deposits for the last 5 montIhis even though my business started a year ago?. Some say it does some say it doesn't.


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Can someone please tell me what does the chartered accountants letter need to write on it when submitting it to the Home Office?


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Jrge said:


> Hi,
> 
> Well, hairdressers don't issue invoices but hand out receipts. In terms of the Accountant, I wouldn't be able to rightfully say whether it needs to be Chartered or not. For as long as their practice is legit should suffice.
> 
> ...


Hello to all and happy new year.

Can someone please tell me what must the accountants letter state for the Home Office?

Also is it ok if we submit a bank statement where it shows that as self employed I only was depositing in the last 4/5 months?

Much appreciated
Thank you


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## Jrge (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi,


sophimari said:


> Hello to all and happy new year.
> 
> Can someone please tell me what must the accountants letter state for the Home Office?
> 
> ...


It should reflect the nature of your business and a brief description of the finances of it.

It is difficult to anticipate what the EURO case worker will decide based upon those bank statements.

Animo
(Cheers)


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Hello all. I had my chartered accountant write the letter to the home office which I will submit to them with the documents but he wrote on the letter the following:

To whom it may concern:

Our client has authorised us to provide you with reference in connection with visa application.

Is it suitable to write on the letter that its for visa application? If not then what would be best regarding this leter.

Thanks very much
Sophimari


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Hi people

Can someone please tell me what the difference is between the old EEA2 application form and the new EEA2 form which started july 2013? Or is it just the payment of £55.00?

Thanks


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Well, the layout is different, and differing requirements are clearly set out. There is now a special section for those applying under Surinder Singh. The regulations haven't changed nor the criteria you have to meet.
Strangely, the form for EEA family permit hasn't been revised.


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## sophimari (Dec 6, 2012)

Hi Joppa

Tnx for your reply. So basically its the same form just that they sort of refreshed it to add the new eu countries?

My other question is that my lawyer sent in the application for the previous form and they will get it tomorrow. Will they accept it as we added every document they needed? What about payment to them?


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