# Should We or Shouldn't We



## danster75 (Oct 17, 2013)

All

Here's one for you all, My wife and I have been married now for 13yrs, She is from J'burg (she was backpacking Europe and stupidly fell for moi!)

Since the beginning we have always said that we would like to live in SA one day (uk now) I have been several times to Jburg the cape etc so sort of know what im letting myself in for.., problem now is, we now have two children and obviously your life changes when they arrive!!.

My wife has her heart set on returning home, as her family is very tight knitted and I am lets say starting to get concerned re: the total change of lifestlye ie: living in closed perimeters etc etc etc..

My question is this: 

To all of those whom have made the leap of faith and have settled into SA life, should we even be considering this or do you feel the country will be in decline soon as Madiba has flown the nest?

I would be grateful for some advice etc, as I know there maybe a hard discussion to be had soon..

Thanks

Danster


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

*Yes, you should.*

Seeing as I'm first in here with a comment, let me say that you will hear many different viewpoints and usually neither the most negative nor the most positive are entirely true.

In essence, there is nothing wrong with staying in South Africa, as long as you fall into the upper income groups. That way you'll avoid most crime, most societal issues and most of the bad stuff, and that goes for most countries I've lived in, anyway.

I'd also say that since you've been here, you already know all that.

Based on years of dealing with similar situations of many clients, the real question they end up with after "the hard discussion" tends to be this: If your wife has been in your country for 13 years, can't you live in hers for a little?

Good luck and hope it goes well!

----
(Also: As far as things changing since Mandela passed away - he hasn't been influential in politics for over 10 years. So nothing much is changing because of that.)


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## Jem62 (Jul 25, 2012)

Don't know where you are planning to move to CT or JHB? Stick to the facts, in CT analysis by the DA of morgue records over 5 years shows that more than 80% of murders are drug or alcohol related i.e. major serious crime happens in townships. The unemployment rate for skilled people is 1.5% and the economy is desperate for more. Inward investment into the WC is massive, BT and Amazon calls centres in CT. Chinese opened R400m TV production plant in Atlantis, just North of CT - about six months ago. There is a FB group called return to SA, ever larger numbers of SA's are returning mainly for quality of life and family reasons. The black middle class now is larger than the white middle class according to the last census. I would suggest that you subscribe to online versions of local newspapers for a period, you can get six months for under £40 - it will give you an insight into what is happening in CT and JHB. Stick to the facts, it will stop the Afro-Pessimists getting to you and the over emotional homecoming brigade. All the best.


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## pb00 (Jun 15, 2013)

Danster75 I am in the almost identical position, wife been here in uk for 11 years, 2 kids and she desperately wants to return to J'burg to be close to her family. My worry is as much about employment as security but our plan is march-May 2015 for a permanent move, going through PR process at the moment.

Legalman we received a very good quote from your company, what are the differences between using yourselves against a company like intergate?


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

*Immigration lawyers or immigration practitioners?*



pb00 said:


> Legalman we received a very good quote from your company, what are the differences between using yourselves against a company like intergate?


I've been waiting a long time for someone to ask me that. Not specifically about Intergate, but about how immigration companies differ and who to use.

In essence, there is one difference:
*Does the immigration consultancy employ lawyers (legal services) or are they immigration practitioners?*

Assisting you with a legal process should be done by *lawyers*. Usually costly, many immigration lawyers now offer a comparatively affordable quote. Immigration practitioners on the other hand, cannot assist you if Home Affairs takes too long and cannot appear for you in court to handle a case should something no go as planned. In fact, South Africa's Department of Home Affairs has even stopped the immigration practitioner's exam due to too many complaints from the public about them.

And I can attest to the fact that for some of our clients we are re-applying or handling their cases that were incorrectly handled by immigration practitioners. A common example is speeding up the permanent residency application process from over a year to less than three months with a court order.

As a prominent immigration lawyer in South Africa once put it:
_South Africa’s immigration regime is a system of law. It boggles my mind how people, uneducated in administrative and constitutional law and unable to interpret statutes and the operations of statutory law, act as “immigration consultants”. When a foreigner wishes to obtain an immigration permit, it triggers a complex legal process. If one’s livelihood and the welfare of one’s family depend on a favorable outcome to that process, one should hire the services of an attorney with an expert knowledge in the field, a lawyer who is able to reduce the risks of failure._

I hope this explains the main reason why we differ.


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## JCL (Jan 5, 2014)

We lived in SA for many years so I do know the country very well.

Danster75, I quote from your original post....



> .....problem now is, we now have two children and obviously your life changes when they arrive!!......


When one becomes a parent, one of the primary responsibilities is to provide your children with an education that will enable them to reach their full potential.

If you are financially able to provide your children with a private education in one of the top schools in SA then that would be good. The quality of education provided by private schools in SA is outstanding and on a par with the best in the world. However, if you do not have the financial resources to do this (and private education in SA can be very expensive) then you need to investigate in depth the quality of the education provided by the government schools. 

If your wife was educated in SA in a goverment school, she must appreciate that the standard of education provided has changed dramatially since she was in school. Personally, I would be very concerned about the foundation that I was providing for my child by sending them to a government school in SA.

JCL


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

It's really hard to say because the stats say one thing, but there's also the reality of living here. I've always felt this way about crime here - it isn't likely that it will happen to you BUT if it does - you will most likely be traumatized by what happens. If that makes sense? We don't seem to do petty crime in SA....

If you have money, can live in an affluent area, can put your kid in private school, and pay for your security - then you can enjoy the life here without concern. If not - well......stay in the UK. And my last 2 cents - which is one of the reasons I'm leaving to go back to the USA in a year, the health care here is not up to the standards of the US. I'm sure that the advanced facilities are fine - but since there's a culture of diagnosing on sight as opposed to through screening, doctor's miss a lot here. I've experienced it with nearly a dozen physicians here in Cape Town ( and that's in the uuber expensive private hospital realm).


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

@MissGlobal - I'm sorry to hear that you've had some bad experiences, but there is no *"culture"* of diagnosing on sight. Maybe for the common cold or flu. But for anything that requires more than questioning and looking at one externally, I've always had tests/x-rays/etc requested.

Many, many people fly to South Africa on a Medical Treatment Permit specifically to come and have medical procedures done, and South Africa's *private* (as you correctly point out) medication is brilliant.

@JLC - Unfortunately you are very right here. Private schooling is great, while the most recent stat about our public schooling sector is that out of 148 countries surveyed, South Africa's maths and science education facilities and system came..........

148th.


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

Legalman - I can only speak from my experiences - but here's what I've come across : 

1 - staph infection in the nose - let's give you some antibiotics ( oral and topical ) - how do we know if it's bacterial or viral?

2 - My kid is running a fever of 103F - let's give her antibiotics and a sedative so she can sleep better

3 - My kid has diarrhea - let's give her antibiotics 

4 - My husband had chest pains - let's give you some antibiotics - it's probably a cold...

5 - Severe diarrhea, sweats, and fever ( me ) - let's give you antibiotics

6 - Round 2 with the crazy fever ( different private hospital ) - hmmm... let's check her for a UTI - but let's give her an antibiotic ( another one ) and see what happens 

7 - Round 3 with crazy fever ( yet another private hospital - let's give her antibiotics - but give her an x-ray and some bloodwork ( finally ). Net result from x-ray and bloodwork is viral pneumonia - therefore antibiotics destroyed her immunity and aggravated the issue . And she sat with pneumonia for 2 weeks while going through this nonsense.


These are just a handful of personal experiences - but I see it with my family ( and we have several private facilities we use here ), I see it with my extended family, and because of this I've started running a site for people to share their experiences with healthcare in SA - and I assure you - people are reporting the same behaviors. There is a culture of this whether you have experienced it or not. I also review HPCSA ethics claim judgements ( as part of working on my site) and guess what - same theme as well. Misdiagnosis and late diagnosis is extremely rampant in south africa.

Medical tourism is popular here - for many reasons including cost - but that doesn't put it on the same level as the first world....

I'm not saying this to be negative or chase folk off. But it's very important for people to have an accurate picture on things in SA - and we tend to be very polarized. We're either like - it's great here - but just do a little to avoid crime and you'll be ok - or we're like it's really bad here - and don't come. There are strengths here - and there are also significant challenges - but they often get played down and ( and this is just my opinion) but medical care is a huge one. It's not as simple as "public hospitals suck and private ones are good". Despite the facilities having proper equipment, patients aren't empowered here - which leaves this environment very ripe for inadequate performance by physicians. Which happens a lot here.


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

> I can only speak from my experiences





> it's very important for people to have an accurate picture on things in SA


Your own experiences are not those of the majority who have private healthcare in SA.


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

This is true - but with my site and research - the data is backing up my opinion....


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

I'm not cooking this up based on just my experience - just look at the HPCSA guilty verdicts here : HPCSA . There are tons of failed to assess a patient , misdiagnosis, etc convictions....

and what's worse - these are only people who are willing to register with the board.... there are many more who are unregistered. Furthermore, these are only cases where patients have even stepped up to say anything...


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

danster75 said:


> All
> 
> Here's one for you all, My wife and I have been married now for 13yrs, She is from J'burg (she was backpacking Europe and stupidly fell for moi!)
> 
> ...


My experience is a positive one however it took us about three years here to get where we wanted to be. Ups and downs for sure but we have a better life here than in the UK and dont regret coming here one bit. We both have good jobs, our daughter (3) goes to a good nursery and soon starts a good private school. We own our property, have one car each and see our family on a regular basis. I will not say that the move was easy or that the road to get here was easy but if you are determined to make it work then you should be able to create a good life here (all dependent on each persons individual circumstances obviously).

Crime, yes is an issue but as someone has previously said, it depends upon where you live and how you live and deal with it. I do not feel unsafe at all but we have had one bad incident where they tried to break into our house (whilst we were sleeping), they were unsuccessful and never gained entry but they poisoned and killed one of our dogs which obviosly was very upsetting. Never had any other real trouble and not too bothered about it (apart from losing my dog that is).

Healthcare - we have medical aid and I cannot complain about it. I gave birth to my daughter here, she has had her toncills taken out here and no complaints at all. 

Not trying to paint a rosy picture, only confirming my personal experience so far (moved here Aug 2010).


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## pb00 (Jun 15, 2013)

@legalman. Just had a confusing email from your company, they asked if I wanted to use them next year I could get a 5% discount but I wanted to start the process now to try and give us the best chance of entrance to SA next April. Can I clarify that we would travel as my wife who is SA, my son who is SA (through birth cert and passport and ID no) my new son who will be SA and I will apply for PR on the back of my first son's SA birth cert. we would apply now and travel in April 2015, just trying to figure out what the best course of action is please


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

Hi pb00

The best thing would be to direct message me or email us back and ask.

Looking forward to hearing from you.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

LegalMan said:


> Your own experiences are not those of the majority who have private healthcare in SA.


and your business relies on people moving to SA so I cannot take your position as unbiased.
My experience of 54 years in SA in which all medical treatment for at least the last 30 years has been top of the range Private Health Care is that SAMedical professionals are over worked, have too little time, and tend to adopt a shotgun approach where everything is attempted to be solved
A very fast rider is that if you open a recent copy of MIMS and have a look in your medicine cabinet, I'll bet that the first treatment you had was a broad spectrum antibiotic and usually, that antibiotics first appearance was 30 plus years ago.

As to advice in the move, everything has been said that is relevant, if you have the financial werewithal you can have a good life while your kids are young.

That freedom changes when they start driving cars and dating.

It was the final straw that made me leave.
when my then 5 year old daughter started dating in the future and coming home at 1,2 ,3 am, I would worry about car accidents anywhere in the World.

In SA, there are a whole bunch of other risk factors starting with a simple flat tyre or breakdown.

So if your kids are young,and you are healthy and well qualified, go for it, but accept that you will probably leave and have to start over again somewhere else.
lane:


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

Wow Daxk - there are some truths there but I think as for folk starting over.... It all depends on what's important to you. The USA has its challenges - and no shortage of them. SA has their challenges as well. They aren't equal at all - but they are all equally challenging - if that makes sense. For some people it will be health care, safety, crime, racism, education, private schools, public schools, employment, food handling, variety in society, language, public services, cost of living, income disparity, poverty, labor rates, etc.... These all have different meanings to people.

I joined this site because I wanted a clear no holds barred spin ( from many people) on life here ( those that are new, those that just moved here, and those that left). Then we'd add our own experiences and decide if it was a good fit. Fortunately my decision to move here was set before I joined, but my decision to stay was up in the air. So many folk ask the question - should we move to SA or not? No one can answer that but we can share what's happened to us, what we've observed, and what we think.

Ultimately minimizing challenges does a disservice to folk trying to move here - as does exaggerating them. So the whole point of this rambling piece is.... I hope we can all keep that in mind as we share our opinions and experiences. I for one would hate to move to another country or not, because someone gave me a motivated spin on things here.... I also hope we won't hold back because any bit of information could be helpful.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Miss Global, I certainly dont think I am exagerating anything.
I have no axe to grind, the more skills that go to SA, the longer it continues, is to my benefit.
But I too dont like spin, and would rather people arriving have ALL the facts to make their decision.
Its all fine and well to say that 80% of all murders are alcohol and area related, and that if you live in the Sticks you will mostly be ok, but......

The Majority of skills and higly paid expat positions are in te major Cities, and Jhbg and surrounds is still the Business centre of SA, I clearly said if you have the money and your kids are young , you can have a very good life in SA, 

Homehelp and nannies are an absolute boon,, secure homes and estates are not a guarantee but does minimise your in-home risks, no argument.

and all of that is fine, until, as I said, your kids start driving and dating and going to late night parties.

Again,a flat tyre or a car breakdown is not a guarantee of a life changing event at 2 or 3 am, but it certainly ups the ante of vulnerability.

and SA does not have the relative security of a public transport system.

That might be one of the "challenges" facing parts of America or Brazil but is it as dangerous to have a flat tyre in the UK where the a lot of expat skills are coming from?
and lastly, yes, I am biased, I have what is now a teenage daughter, Thats why I left SA after 54 years.
to reduce the risk.


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

Hey daxk - please don't think I was referring to anyone. I was more just commenting on how polarized things get - and how it feels like we're moving away from the whole point of these sites


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## Jem62 (Jul 25, 2012)

I subscribe to another group of SA's planning to return home from across the globe, someone made an excellent contribution to the discussion today, I reproduce it here since it encapsulates the mixed and complex emotions and circumstances all stayers, goers and returners have to deal with, its worth a read;

" Being away from South Africa for a long period (10-15 years) is somewhat different from being away for 5 years or so. IMO, one starts to ask the very BIG questions about life. What are our reasons for being here on this earth, what lessons need to be learnt, what is REALLY important. People that have been out the country for that long will ask questions about life etc that those that are still contemplating leaving South Africa (they haven't as yet experienced what so many of us long term ex-pats have experienced) haven't yet contemplated. I certainly am not trying to be superior in any way, but that is what I feel. I always say - keep an open mind, don't bad mouth your country as you may have to eat your words. Having lived away for 10 years (in US and in the Netherlands ), I have certainly started to question life. So many people say they are leaving for their child's future - many of these countries (US and Netherland included) have many problems with education, manners, lifestyle, social problems - no country is perfect. It's so true what others have said - you swap one lot of problems for another - that has certainly been my experience. My nieces are in South Africa and live a better life than my children in the Netherlands - by a long shot. Granted, they do attend private schools and do live on a secure estate. Even the public schools in South Africa offer more than the schools here in The Netherlands. My daughter plays on a concrete playground, no sporting facilities whatsoever - it pains me to see what she is missing. She is a good swimmer - however here she would have to join a swimming club that trains in the evening (she is only 9) - whereas back home, most public schools have swimming pools etc. Any sports that she does is done privately, expensive and often late into the evenings - taking her there in the dark and fetching in the dark. Never under estimate being away from family as well - that has been my killer - tough and difficult. We have ONE life - its not only about being safe and surviving - its about living, passion, soul, happiness and joy - something that in essence has been missing from my life for too long. Also never underestimate what bad weather can do to ones emotions and outlook on life. Life is too short to just survive - we need to live"


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Jemm, I think you have missed my point., if you have money for private schools, private health care, a secure guarded estate with a home that is a million rand plus , and the weather, your child is going to be swimmiong in ypur own pool at home, brown as a berry and obviously leading a far more outdoor type of lifestyle than it would in the Netherlands or Ireland or the UK....thats obvious.
but please tell me what happens when your child gets to 17, 18, 19 early twenties..
will that still be the same in SA as in the Netherlands, or the UK or Ireland?
when they come home late at night, as a parent there are some things you automatically worry about, car accidents etc...

In SA you have more to worry about.
even my wife on her way home from a bookclub or a night out with friends, such as tonight, if we have a flat tyre at 1am will we be exposed to the same risks here in Galway than in lets say the M1 in Sandton?

Flippant comments such as life is to short to survive, we need to live are actually just naieve.


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## Jem62 (Jul 25, 2012)

Daxk, I have two young adult children 21 and 18, we live in London. Most weekends I don't see them since they are out with their friends doing something. During 2013, 50 teenagers were either shot or knifed to death in London, rapes and robbery's are equally common. During the past 3-4 years I've been reading the Cape Argus everyday, the murder of young people outside the township(theses are gang related, fighting drug turf wars) are unheard of, plus my wife and I have a huge family and friends network which includes many young adults, nothing has ever happened to them. You have sub consciously talked yourself into believing that all black people are murderers and criminals out to kill all white people. I would hope that should your daughter ever be in a difficult situation, she would be helped by the mostly good black people. London, as in CT young people have learnt to behave sensibly, they go out in groups and know not to go into certain areas at night. It is not possible to totally secure young adults in any part of the globe even in the so called safe places you mention.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Jem62 said:


> Daxk, I have two young adult children 21 and 18, we live in London. Most weekends I don't see them since they are out with their friends doing something. During 2013, 50 teenagers were either shot or knifed to death in London, rapes and robbery's are equally common. During the past 3-4 years I've been reading the Cape Argus everyday, the murder of young people outside the township(theses are gang related, fighting drug turf wars) are unheard of, plus my wife and I have a huge family and friends network which includes many young adults, nothing has ever happened to them. You have sub consciously talked yourself into believing that all black people are murderers and criminals out to kill all white people. I would hope that should your daughter ever be in a difficult situation, she would be helped by the mostly good black people. London, as in CT young people have learnt to behave sensibly, they go out in groups and know not to go into certain areas at night. It is not possible to totally secure young adults in any part of the globe even in the so called safe places you mention.



Jem, you have immediately assumed that I am racist.
I am not.
I have lived in SA for 54 years, I dont think you have.
at a rough guess, I have far more experience of black culture and language than you have, I spoke Tswana before I spoke English and have more than conversational Zulu.
Rape and murder are not part of Black peoples phsych any more than white peoples, Black people are not inherently bad, in fact I have , as many South Africans have ,a lot more actual love for people who happen to be black, than your post indicates you could ever have.
the problem is simply this:
80% plus of SA's demographic happens to be black.
Cape Colourede aka Mullato makes up a greater percentage of of racial demographic in the Cape,
Not all white people supported Apartheid, but in real terms they had as much chnace of changing policy that anyone has in SA today.
These are facts.
so, if SA has a real poverty level of 65% of its population, and a punishment/conviction rate of 5% of all murders and 3% of all rates (as opposed to conviction rates of hose cases where the Police can actually charge someone.)
Then there is a vulnerability.

quick test:
If My daughter has a flat tyre tyre at 1 am in London and your daughter has a flat tyre at the same time on the M1 between gilloolies and the gordon rd off ramp, (covering mostly A Income ares demographic)
who is most at risk?
PS: I just re-read your post,
during 2013 50 teenagers, I repeat 50 Teenagers, out of whats your population? 64 million? do you want to go onto the SA Police services website and do a comparitive? FFS!


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## jesshall281 (Sep 19, 2012)

Hello,

I moved to SA from the UK 3 years ago and my experience has been mixed.

I hated the country at first, because I was totally clueless about visas when I arrived here, and had to wait 1.3 years for my work permit to come through, I had to work for my employer for that amount of time for free, otherwise they would have hired someone else because my permit was taking too long. Yes this was illegal but it needed to be done to secure myself a job in the long run. So because I was working for free for over a year I hated it.

Once I got my visa and was being paid I really started enjoying the country, the weather, the people and culture and I do call it home. I feel safer here in Pretoria than I do in Manchester, UK where I am from, so don't always believe the hype on violence in this country.

My husband and I will be moving back to the UK later this year because I have more family over there and he only has his parents here who can come and visit the UK, rather than me having to fly 16 members of my family over here. Also the salaries in the UK compared to SA are ridiculously high. There is no minimum wage here in SA, so if you get a job with a smaller salary you might find your quality of life has decreased when moving here, especially with children.

Also, education wise, the pass rate in the country is around 30% the last I heard, which is ridiculous.

Jessica


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

Hey Jessica, 

There actually is a minimum wage here in South Africa - but it's crazy low . It also varies by industry and number of hours a person works. It isn't anything that anyone from abroad could live off of. But you know... a lot of people don't realize how low the international standard for "middle class" is as defined by WHO ( it's about a family earning $20 USD a day!). None of us would imagine moving to another country on a budget of $400 a month!)

As for education - yeah - well the pass rates are low - but they are good in private schools and government schools in affluent areas. However no-one can argue with the belief that the school system is challenged.

Jessica - as I'm moving back to the USA in about a year - I'd be grateful if you kept us updated and shared your return process / experiences. I'm imagining the transition shouldn't be too bad since it's been just a few years - but still - it isn't an easy thing to do and I appreciate reading people's stories.


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## Orbit24 (Jul 9, 2012)

Daxk said:


> quick test:
> If My daughter has a flat tyre tyre at 1 am in London and your daughter has a flat tyre at the same time on the M1 between gilloolies and the gordon rd off ramp, (covering mostly A Income ares demographic)
> who is most at risk?
> PS: I just re-read your post,
> during 2013 50 teenagers, I repeat 50 Teenagers, out of whats your population? 64 million? do you want to go onto the SA Police services website and do a comparitive? FFS!


I agree with your point regarding the flat tyre, however Jemm was referring to the population of teens within London, a city with a total population of around 8 million, not 64.
If the number is 50 that's one teenager murdered every week in just one (1st world) city. That statistic is not something I would dismiss lightly.


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## arking (Jan 20, 2014)

*Re should we or shouldn't we*

Hi Danster

In 2010 after 11 years of living in the UK ,my hubby, I and our 2 kids the aged 4 and 2 decided to move to Johanessburg. We bought a house settled nicely unfortunately my husband couldn't find a job and he returned to the UK. I continued to live in SA for another 10 months but then was forced to rejoin my hubby. Now 3 years later we are still planning on returning and have set a date for December 2014 this time we are going with 3kids

Hopefully this time we will be better prepared financially.
I loved my return home and I look forward to our adventure again.
There were lots of things I had to change example the safety aspect. However on looking back I don't think I ever felt unsafe as I took the necessary precautions. I even drove myself and my kids to a holiday in Limpopo. I was also very very happy. Nothing compares to the quality of food, kids entertainment, gyms etc however it comes at a price.
South Africa is expansive. You need to be prepared and you need a good job.
I already know what I need to ship this time around. Please contact me if you need to any more practical advise. 

I hope that helps


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## pb00 (Jun 15, 2013)

Hi Arking

We are returning in April 2015 (return for my wife, immigrate for me and our 2 boys). I have been looking at shipping companies and wondered who you guys used and any advice for us from your experiences when moving back. We both have good experience within SA more we want to ensure we are working more than anything else! !


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## arking (Jan 20, 2014)

Hi
We used Anglo pacific on our last move and because they were so efficient I hope to use them again this time. Our shipment left in early January and arrived in Mid April.
We used a container and shipped almost everything we could except a car. The guys from Anglo Pacific were amazing about 6 guys arrived on a cold winters morning in London. I took the kids to a soft play for most of the day and when I came home it was almost empty. They were extremely efficient. They dismantled and packaged everything. Our container was opened when it arrived at our house in SA. They guys there were just as good. They assembled everything even Ikea stuff which I brought home flat packed.

I would recommend them. Get a few quotes and see what is cost effective for you guys. We will also do so as prices may have changed. I think back in 2010 it was about £3000 unfortunately we could afford to ship everything back so we have stuff in storage in Johanessburg .

Hopefully that helps.
Antoinette


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

I wanted to add - it's a VERY good idea to get multiple quotes - we got 8. Our quotes for moves basically varied by a range of $15000 for the exact same services and weight! I have no idea how shipping companies do their pricing but from what we came across - there is a lot of variation. I've also learned that even though you may go with a smaller company - they are all using the large international companies at the end of the day... So maybe it's just the markup that varies...


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## arking (Jan 20, 2014)

I couldn't agree more about ensuring you have a job first. At least one of you. 
Get in touch with a few agencies etc But if you don't have a job make sure you have enough money to take you through at least 6months. 
We made the mistake of buying an expensive car in SA as soon as we arrived. A car is essential but it needn't have used all our savings. I was so eager to get home and in hindsight we should have done better planning as the move cost us dearly. So this time it will be better planning for sure.
Antoinette


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## arking (Jan 20, 2014)

Hi 
My advice about moving back or trying to live in SA is follow your gut instinct. You would never know what it's like until you do it.
South Africa is an amazing country to live it is vibrant and it full of soul but it also has a long way to go. It is a country with such huge contrasts that one cannot explain it. You have to experience it and once you do, you may leave it but it will never leave you.
One has to accept that it has its problems and one cannot walk around with blinkers on. Poverty and crime being the major factor ( the latter of which did not affect me personally never the less I took precautions). I was sad to see so much poverty ESP women with their children on the roadside and I must have given so much money away. I was determined to try to help in any little way I could but the reality it this is Africa and I could not save a Continent.
I could only help in my small way and try to make a difference. I employed an amazing honest helper and was determined to help her and her family. I made friends very quickly. 

I had never lived in JHB before, so I was scared very scared. On my first night I couldn't sleep worrying about driving on the roads.I had heard so many awful stories that I literally froze in my belief of them.
The reality could not have been further away from the truth. It is am amazing place to live ESP with children they are loved and welcomed in almost every restaurant and place and I cannot wait to go back. This time better prepared as the cost of living in SA is high.
A


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## pb00 (Jun 15, 2013)

Hi all

Really agree with those points, we have taken around 4 quotes so far with surveys booked in to get concrete quotes arranged. They range from £3500 to £6100 so far and we have decided not to take the car but to use the car money to purchase over there,

We have both been back to Jo'burg every year for the last 8 years and are excited at the prospect while we understand the very real issues we want to be part of the potential solution (if there is one!!).

For my OH its being with her family and our friends that excites us the most.

Going over in May for a final tour and meet some job prospects and also going to the homecoming expo in March to put our name sabout there as well.

It is right for our family and we will go with an open and cautious mind but ready to have a real go at experiencing all SA has to offer.


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