# Financial Drawbacks of Condo ownership?



## gringotim

Since different countries/states/provinces etc have different rules for condo owners, thought I would see if anybody knows the answer. In Mexico, if you own a condo, and the building needs repairs, do all the condo owners have to chip in their share of the cost. Like if it needs repairs to the roof, or elevator, or pool, or central a/c or whatever. Do any of the HOA fee's go into a fund for emergency repairs, , is their a grace period for new owners, so you don't buy a condo then get hit with a huge bill one month later, or are you liable once you sign on the dotted line? And what about a condo that's for sale and the current owner still owes money for previous repairs to the building. I have heard of condo owners in Vancouver Canada being hit with $10-15,000 bills to cover major repairs, and a lot of people can't afford that so have take out a loan. Does this happen in Mexico as well?


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## kimo

gringotim said:


> Since different countries/states/provinces etc have different rules for condo owners, thought I would see if anybody knows the answer. In Mexico, if you own a condo, and the building needs repairs, do all the condo owners have to chip in their share of the cost. Like if it needs repairs to the roof, or elevator, or pool, or central a/c or whatever. Do any of the HOA fee's go into a fund for emergency repairs, , is their a grace period for new owners, so you don't buy a condo then get hit with a huge bill one month later, or are you liable once you sign on the dotted line? And what about a condo that's for sale and the current owner still owes money for previous repairs to the building. I have heard of condo owners in Vancouver Canada being hit with $10-15,000 bills to cover major repairs, and a lot of people can't afford that so have take out a loan. Does this happen in Mexico as well?


Can't believe not one condo owner has chimed in with a response, I too would like to know the rules in Mexico, if there are any. Surely theres someone on here who owns a condo , or has lived in a condo complex that has at one time needed some major work done. Roof repairs, pool repairs, elevator repairs, exterior painting, etc etc.


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## RVGRINGO

Maybe you are discovering that most full time expat residents of Mexico would not be found in a condominium.


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## Isla Verde

RVGRINGO said:


> Maybe you are discovering that most full time expat residents of Mexico would not be found in a condominium.


Or maybe they post on expat forums dedicated to condominium dwellers!


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## Longford

I haven't owned a condominium (or a home) in Mexico, so I can't say with certainty what laws or regulations apply. I know many people, expats, who own homes and condominiums and my impression has always been they mostly don't know the answer to the question ... either. It could be a federal regulation (so much in Mexico is done from the top-down rather than bottom-up), or something at the state level. 

My impression has been, and continues to be, that condominium ownership and resolution of the issues involving association finances and administration are very different in the coastal communities where you have condominiums than they are in, say, Mexico City or Guadlajara ... the stable, less seasonally-occupied communities.

I can offer some insight to condominium ownership/administration in Acapulco because I most often use the apartment of an expat friend there who keeps a place for vacations. It's one of the original condominium buildings in Acapulco, right on the water in the older section of the city. Two associations, actually. Two buildings, one in front of the other, one taller than the other. I've been in and out of the building for 15 years.

Firstly, most of the apartments there are owned by people who live in Mexico City. Acapulco is the playground for people in Mexico City because it's a 3.5 to 4 hour drive by car. Within easy reach. Though, in the early days of this building, in the 60s/70s, there were many more expats with apartments there in the building. Honests building administrators seem hard to come by. There are frequent allegations of misuse of funds, not just at this building ... but at some others I'm aware of in Acapulco. Less than half the owners pay their assessments and those who do pay only when forced to ... at Christmas/New Years and Easter when they want to use the building and need gas/water, clean facilities, etc. The rest of the year a few of the year-round residents pay ... and th expats pay. 

The situation became very frustrating and water and gas was shut off to my friend and other residents because not enough money was being paid into assessments. And cleaning services and landscaping was discontinued for the same reason. So some of the more diligent owners simply ran separate water lines to their apartment .... traversing sidewalks, walls, etc., so they had water which they paid for separately. And they did the same with gas ... installing tanks at their apartments to have a constant supply.

The pool hasn't been used in 4 years because there isn't enough money in reserves/income to repair a crack or even to pay for the water to fill it or chemicals to keep the water sanitary. My friend and a a couple of other expat owners were paying all of these costs themselves, entirely, because they wanted to use the pool ... like they paid for the gas and water for everyone in the building, previous to getting their own tanks, etc.

Several years ago when I was there in September the administrator asked to meet with me as a representative of the few expat owners left ... because one of the two buildings developed a structural problem and there were no funds to hire the engineering and pay his fee to figure out a solution so there wouldn't be continued deterioration. There are probably 10 units in this particular building, the second of the two, and none of the Mexican owners were willing to pay their share. The attitude in this building almost always is "Let the Gringos pay." So I spoke with the expat owners who paid almost all of the fees. For all of these special items my friend and the other expats apply against future monthly assessments and therefore there's even less money to keep the property in good condition.

I've seen this same situation over and over, in Acapulco. I've also seen it in Veracruz. These are older buildings for which the owners don't have the money to keep up the property and in many instances they've inherited the condos or just squatted in them long enough to become, essentially, the owner. There are also a number of abandoned units, the owners of which nobody seems certain.

So, what's the legal recourse? In Mexico, generally, the laws and regulations seem to favor the deadbeats. The legal system is so completely corrupted and ineffective there seems to be little recourse unless someone has the time and moneyh to retain a lawyer with connections and who is willing to pay bribes to resolve a matter. Expats are at a distinct disadvantage in disputes because we're most often considered "rich" in comparison to people who may be taking advantage of us. And it's not just a certain economic class which the deadbeats are drawn from. It can be from among all groups.

For the most part, you're left to fend for yourself.

Now, not all is doom and gloom and the problems I describe above aren't experienced 1005 of the time in all of Mexico. The resort/coastal areas is where many expats want to buy and they're most often seasonal visitors. There are locations/buildings where such problems are minimal. But finding whch and where is the challenge. 

If I were looking for a condominium in one of these seaside areas I would hope to find one in a building occupied mostly by expats ... people primarily from the USA and Canada. A grouping of people sharing a similar culture and standards of acceptability. In the interior of the country there are many fine condominium buildings where problems are minimal, but, once again, it depends upon the make-up of the ownership.

I've rambled a bit, but these have been my observations and experiences.

By the way, there are similar challenges, oftentimes, in rental situations. Problems aren't limited to condominium buildings. Some apartment buildings present a challenge as well.


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## RVGRINGO

As I said before, ......
Best to find a place you really like and buy it. Second best is to have a good landlord, but realize that, in Mexico, you may expect to maintain the place; not him.


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## gringotim

Thanks for those insights, and thanks Kimo for getting this post back to the top, however brief it is, guess most expats in Mexico who live in condo's don't look at Expat Forum on a daily basis, or even now about it. I know from our experience, , and friends who have rented numerous condos for vacation stays over the last 10 years or so, at least in Manzanillo, and PV, that a large %, if not all of ocean front condo's in some buildings are occupied by and or owned by nob owners, and if not, the rest are owned by well off Mexicans, or conglomerates who rent them out , could be why they are always VERY well maintained, but yet the farther away from the beach you get, the more run down SOME buildings seem to be, so maybe not so many owned by nob owners. Don't know. Have tried contacting an owner we rented from in 2011, to see if they can answer the question, but have not heard back. Guess with buying anything, anywhere, it's buyer beware.


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## Hound Dog

Dawg was not only a resident-owner of a codomniium on Russian Hill in San Franicso.a fine luxury aparftmnt tower ffiled with With classy folks but I was,for as time the,the presidiet of the condomininium assocation. A sorrier bunch of idiots I never met..


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## GARYJ65

RVGRINGO said:


> As I said before, ......
> Best to find a place you really like and buy it. Second best is to have a good landlord, but realize that, in Mexico, you may expect to maintain the place; not him.


I would suggest, for Mexico as well as for any other Country, do not expect things, you can talk beforehand and agree on every subject, then write it down and sign it.

Much easier


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## TundraGreen

GARYJ65 said:


> I would suggest, for Mexico as well as for any other Country, do not expect things, you can talk beforehand and agree on every subject, then write it down and sign it.
> 
> Much easier


Even when it is written there can be misunderstandings. I friend of mine, the landlord (and Mexican if it matters), had a written lease contract with a tenant (a North of Border type). The landlord held a deposit. The tenant decided to leave before the lease expired. The tenant was surprised to discover that the landlord was going to keep his deposit. The discussion turned very acrimonious.


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## GARYJ65

TundraGreen said:


> Even when it is written there can be misunderstandings. I friend of mine, the landlord (and Mexican if it matters), had a written lease contract with a tenant (a North of Border type). The landlord held a deposit. The tenant decided to leave before the lease expired. The tenant was surprised to discover that the landlord was going to keep his deposit. The discussion turned very acrimonious.


We should see how the contract was written, if it was clear about the deposit, they should not be any discussion if the contract states everything clearly. If one of the parts goes crazy and tries to jump over the contract, it`s rather easy to arrange it in Court or with the PROFECO


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## sparks

GARYJ65 said:


> We should see how the contract was written, if it was clear about the deposit, they should not be any discussion if the contract states everything clearly. If one of the parts goes crazy and tries to jump over the contract, it`s rather easy to arrange it in Court or with the PROFECO


Nothing legal in Mexico is easy


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## lagoloo

At a popular retirement destination area in Mexico, there is a gated community where the properties are owned individually, but there is a HOA to which fees are paid for the general grounds upkeep. So many owners do not pay that at present, it looks pathetic. Green slime in the common pool; weeds in the park area. I don't know what the consequences of non-payment are, but it seems that enforcement is the problem in all arrangements where many are supposed to pay fees for the good of all. I wouldn't invest in any of them, no how, no way.


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## GARYJ65

sparks said:


> Nothing legal in Mexico is easy


There is a legal system in Mexico, as there in every Country
None of the systems are perfect, anywhere
I did not stated all legal things are easy in Mexico, I wrote about renting with a GOOD contract. Not only a contract, a good one, and it has to be reviewed and discussed, if possible, one that has been authorized by PROFECO

I've been in the real estate business in Mexico for almost 23 yrs now, I base my opinion on that

Of course we all know terrible stories about Mexican landlords, I can tell you some about American landlords, Korean ones, Russian, etc. But things run much better if people take care of what they sign and make clearer deals.

Once again, some people break deals, that's why we have Courts and Lawyers don't we?


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## GARYJ65

lagoloo said:


> At a popular retirement destination area in Mexico, there is a gated community where the properties are owned individually, but there is a HOA to which fees are paid for the general grounds upkeep. So many owners do not pay that at present, it looks pathetic. Green slime in the common pool; weeds in the park area. I don't know what the consequences of non-payment are, but it seems that enforcement is the problem in all arrangements where many are supposed to pay fees for the good of all. I wouldn't invest in any of them, no how, no way.


You are perfectly right on not being interested on investing in that place, for sure, they do not have a good REGLAMENTO (regulations), and it would be almost impossible now to change that.
Some places I know, they can force owners to pay their fees, they can even take possession of the property in case the owner do not comply.
There you should be looking to invest


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## GARYJ65

gringotim said:


> Since different countries/states/provinces etc have different rules for condo owners, thought I would see if anybody knows the answer. In Mexico, if you own a condo, and the building needs repairs, do all the condo owners have to chip in their share of the cost. Like if it needs repairs to the roof, or elevator, or pool, or central a/c or whatever. Do any of the HOA fee's go into a fund for emergency repairs, , is their a grace period for new owners, so you don't buy a condo then get hit with a huge bill one month later, or are you liable once you sign on the dotted line? And what about a condo that's for sale and the current owner still owes money for previous repairs to the building. I have heard of condo owners in Vancouver Canada being hit with $10-15,000 bills to cover major repairs, and a lot of people can't afford that so have take out a loan. Does this happen in Mexico as well?


I would like to try to answer 
In Mexico there are perfectly well maintained condos and some that are a mess
Some work as you stated; they all pay for their fees, they have a fund for maintenance and repairs, etc.
Some condos I know, they are so close that they very very seldom sell, and if they do, they sell to people they know. 

If you buy a condo, or a house, even a car, it is kindergarten rule to verify it does not have maintenance or any kind of debts, otherwise you end up paying for them (and you deserve it)


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## Hound Dog

I got a big kick out of Longford's posting about a condo on the beach in Mexico. 

I can beat that story. 

In about 1975, we purchased a condo on Russian Hill in San Franciscco and I mention Russian Hill because this is a really nice part of town with spectacular views of the city and bay, A fine location attracting, one would think, the cream of the crop in one of the most expensive cities in the U.S. That would be San Francisco, California, not Mexico or Ouagadougou, Upper Volta (Oops!, that would be Burkino Faso) Now, San Francisco is a highly regulated city governed at the highest level by the most responsible functionaries on the planet - no?

Soon after Dawg became the (sucker) president of this high rise 60 unit condominium located in what was one of the finest neighborhoods of that city with treasured views of North Beach, the Financial District, the bay and Chinatown - a guaranteed top notch address. It subsequently came to my attention that this seven story wood frame building was illegal according to city codes as seven story wood frame buildings are illegal in San Francisco and, not only that, the building was constructed in a manner that was dangerously inadequate to the point that a hired engineer consultant informed Dawg that the whole thing might collapse in an earthquake. An earthquake in San Francisco? Not likely. Now an earthquake occurring in Dawg´s native Montgomery sitting there on the flat Gulf Coastal Plain of South Alabama was a more likely event than an earthquake occurring in the tortured, hilly lanscape of San Francisco sitting there on the San Andreas fault. 

Anyway, this engineering consulatant informed the newly elected president of the condominium association that he had a twofold problem. Fisrt of all, the remedial repair of that wooden condomimium would cost at leat $500.000 Dollarrs to make the building safe and, sceondly. the remedial work would not rectify the problem as a seven story wooden apartment structure was illegal in San Franciso and did not even remotely meet minimum code requirements. 

Now, this story gets better. Upon inquiry at city hall as to how an illegal structure was constructed in such a prominent place as Russian Hill in the heart of San Francisco, Dawg discovered that the chief building inspector for the city had retired shortly after the building was complteted back in the 1960s and moved to Mexico. No one else at city hall wanted to come within ten miles of this problem and Dawg´s condominium board developed poop pants upon hearing of this unfathomable problem and ran for the hills. 

Since Dawg is a moral type person and the condominium problem was not fixable, Dawg resigned as board president resigned as board president and move to Sonoma County. As it happened, that big assed eaththquake hit San Francisco in the |980s and Dawg was driving around San Jose at the time some 50 miles away and that earthquake shook the hell out of San Jose and turned what is known as the Avenues in San Francico into a war zone biut ole Dawg´s apartment on Russisn Hill lost not even one bottle of tequila. 

De Lawd works in mysterious ways.

Humans are disgusting.


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## TundraGreen

Hound Dog said:


> .… As it happened, that big assed eaththquake hit San Francisco in the |980s and Dawg was driving around San Jose at the time some 50 miles away and that earthquake shook the hell out of San Jose and turned what is known as the Avenues in San Francico into a war zone biut ole Dawg´s apartment on Russisn Hill lost not even one bottle of tequila.
> 
> De Lawd works in mysterious ways.
> 
> Humans are disgusting.


Not really all that mysterious. The houses in the hills were built on solid rock, those in the Marina were built on artificial fill. In some cases the fill was debris from the 1906 earthquake which was used to create new land for the 1915 Exposition. That filled land turns into soup when it is shaken and houses don't do well.


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## Hound Dog

_


TundraGreen said:



Not really all that mysterious. The houses in the hills were built on solid rock, those in the Marina were built on artificial fill. In some cases the fill was debris from the 1906 earthquake which was used to create new land for the 1915 Exposition. That filled land turns into soup when it is shaken and houses don't do well.

Click to expand...

_Now, how the hell didi you know that? I be the boy what lived in San Francisco for the better part of two decades and I did not bother to 'splain to Tapatios the topographical complexiities of that city by the bay because I thought the audience displeased with such minutia and here I am upstaged by a Guadalajaran so smuggly knowledgable about the bedrock of San Francisco´s hills(such as Russian and Nob) versus the instability of the city´s lands adjacent to the bay which are, as pointed out by TG, landfill, thus the entertainment enjoyed by Dawg upon watching the fancy mansions of the Marina Disttrict topple and burn after that 1980s earthquake while Dawg´s humble abode weathered the disaster and during following conflagration, unharmed. Perhaps TG is more worldly that Dawg had initially thought. 

OK, TG, put this in your pipe and smoke it. Since you are so knowledgable about the complexiitis of the earth, get this. The first capital of French Louisiana was Dauphin Island, Alabama, then a part of French Louisiana but it was moved to inland ton New Orleans after having first been moved to present day Mobile after having been wiped off the face of the planet by a hurricane and some unpleasant diseases rather common in the sub-tropics in those days, New Orleans was chosen because of its location far inland up the Mississippi straits.

I do declare that, while you had the good sense to move to Guadalajara, that doesn´t mean that you are smarter than the rest of us - simply more blessed.


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## TundraGreen

Hound Dog said:


> Now, how the hell didi you know that? I be the boy what lived in San Francisco for the better part of two decades and I did not bother to 'splain to Tapatios the topographical complexiities of that city by the bay because I thought the audience displeased with such minutia and here I am upstaged by a Guadalajaran so smuggly knowledgable about the bedrock of San Francisco´s hills(such as Russian and Nob) versus the instability of the city´s lands adjacent to the bay which are, as pointed out by TG, landfill, thus the entertainment enjoyed by Dawg upon watching the fancy mansions of the Marina Disttrict topple and burn after that 1980s earthquake while Dawg´s humble abode weathered the disaster and during following conflagration, unharmed. Perhaps TG is more worldly that Dawg had initially thought.
> 
> OK, TG, put this in your pipe and smoke it. Since you are so knowledgable about the complexiitis of the earth, get this. The first capital of French Louisiana was Dauphin Island, Alabama, then a part of French Louisiana but it was moved to inland ton New Orleans after having first been moved to present day Mobile after having been wiped off the face of the planet by a hurricane and some unpleasant diseases rather common in the sub-tropics in those days, New Orleans was chosen because of its location far inland up the Mississippi straits.
> 
> I do declare that, while you had the good sense to move to Guadalajara, that doesn´t mean that you are smarter than the rest of us - simply more blessed.


So maybe you can tell us when the Atchafalaya is going to take over from the Mississippi. How long will the efforts of the Corps of Engineers be able to overcome the natural course of things. Re-engineering rivers works about as well as building on landfill. And what does all this have to do with the price of a condo in Timbucktoo?:fencing:


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## Longford

GARYJ65 said:


> Once again, some people break deals, that's why we have Courts and Lawyers don't we?


I think it's a bit unrealistic to assume the Mexian judicial/legal system works effectively. I don't think it does. There's little relationship, similarity between what people experience in Canada and the USA and what exists in the Mexican system. This has been my experience and observation.


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## Hound Dog

It seems to me that he Mexican judicial system, like the Alabama judcial system works quite well if one s well conected. That is also true of Mali (wherein Timbuktoo ,sprlled as how you wish) is located and the systems in France and China and whereever are also a reflection of humaniity and you name the place on ths planett that is the excception.

I remember sitting in a court room in Lowndes County, Alabama circa 1966 wherein a close family friend and much respected associate, was the presiding circuiit judge in a case involving the shotgun murder of a white priest from Boston who had had the temerity to have puurchased an ice cream cone for a little black girl on the town plaza and had been subsequently slaughtereed with a 12 guage shotgun for that affront to the then social decorum of the day and this judge was the nicest and most civil man imaginaginable but a jury of 12 white men found the murderer not guilty and it had nothing to do with the political leanings of the judge or his family but with the societal norms of the day in that place a that time.

If you can find one nice thing to say about humans beings, I´ll kiss yor ass on that same pllaza and give you a week to draw a crowd, 

If you have warm feelings about the human race at any tine andnin any place you are a moron.


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## GARYJ65

Longford said:


> I think it's a bit unrealistic to assume the Mexian judicial/legal system works effectively. I don't think it does. There's little relationship, similarity between what people experience in Canada and the USA and what exists in the Mexican system. This has been my experience and observation.


I never said the Mexican judicial system is effective, in fact it is not.We have laws and many times are not held as expected. I was talking about contracts,; it is better to have a good one and discuss it thoroughly before signing. Then, if there is a breach of it, it is much easier to go to court and get things straight. My opinion based on 23 yrs of real estate experience.
Canada and the USA also have many law flaws O.J. Simpson is a good example


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## Longford

GARYJ65 said:


> Canada and the USA also have many law flaws O.J. Simpson is a good example


I had thought you were here for intelligent discussion ... until I read the above comment.


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## GARYJ65

Longford said:


> I had thought you were here for intelligent discussion ... until I read the above comment.


That's your opinion


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## Hound Dog

[_QUOTE=Longford;1524858]I had thought you were here for intelligent discussion ... until I read the above comment.

[/QUOTE]_

Gosh, Longford, I thought my comment was more deserving of contempt than Gary´s which drew your wrath. I learned back in the 1950s and 60s that the nicest, most civil people you could ever meet are capable of turning away from the most despicable acts of their fellow human beings from the near decapitation of O.J´s . lady friend to the slaughter of that Boston priest in the town plaza in Fort Deposit, Alabama for having affronted local customs by being a Yankee Roman Catholic priest and purchasing an ice cream cone for a little balck girl. The rules of law applied in both California and Alabama in those days and the rules of the beast prevailed despite that fact that the court houses in both Lowndes and Los Angeles Counties were surrounded by the most civil and decent people you would ever wish to meet.

Today I live in Chiapas where about 40% of the locals of indigenous heritage have something in common with about 80% of the inhabitants of Lowndes County of African American heritage in the 1960s; better not cross the street without looking both ways. and even if you do, will your soul to God because that´s the nearest court of law where you just might get a fair hearing if you get run over. 

I don´t mean to be political here but I was there in Lowndes County and Los Angeles County at the times of these events. I am not pleased to recall these episodes with which I must live so I thought I might share them with the rest of you. .


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## jahac vjetra

devil is in detail


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## Isla Verde

jahac vjetra said:


> devil is in detail


Spouting platitudes is no way to win an argument with intelligent people. By the way, that should be "The devil is in the details".


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## jahac vjetra

somewhere on the way from Bosnia to America, I lost it .... the ... as soon as I find it I'll let you know


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## jahac vjetra

I understand, but I do not know who you mean when you say intelligent people


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## lagoloo

I am trying to come up with one good reason why anyone would invest money in a situation where you have little or no control over how the Board of Directors is going to manage the complex.

Anyone?


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## surfrider

The legal document that delineates the existence of the condominium building and legally divides the property into individual units is called the regimen de condominio. This document allows for a form of co-ownership in the property’s common areas and exclusive ownership of the individual units, forming a sort of de facto partnership between the condominium owners. Each owner is assigned a percentage of ownership of the building and the common area based on the square-meter size of his or her condominium.
Each state has their own laws and each condominium building has their own ways to deal with fees and residential repairs so the question is difficult to answer. 
My personal feelings pertaining to condominiums in general is that the investment you have for the unit you own is tied too closely to the other peoples ability to maintain costs, repairs, and dues. When ever you invest money into real estate, location and resale are huge factors to consider. You section of a condominium can be maintained and improved upon but when you go to sell that unit, the whole building and the ability of the building to maintain the property will either help or hurt your sale.


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## gringotim

surfrider said:


> The legal document that delineates the existence of the condominium building and legally divides the property into individual units is called the regimen de condominio. This document allows for a form of co-ownership in the property’s common areas and exclusive ownership of the individual units, forming a sort of de facto partnership between the condominium owners. Each owner is assigned a percentage of ownership of the building and the common area based on the square-meter size of his or her condominium.
> Each state has their own laws and each condominium building has their own ways to deal with fees and residential repairs so the question is difficult to answer.
> My personal feelings pertaining to condominiums in general is that the investment you have for the unit you own is tied too closely to the other peoples ability to maintain costs, repairs, and dues. When ever you invest money into real estate, location and resale are huge factors to consider. You section of a condominium can be maintained and improved upon but when you go to sell that unit, the whole building and the ability of the building to maintain the property will either help or hurt your sale.


Wait, What?, but seriously, kinda like in Canada and probably the U.S too, guess its one of the drawbacks, but then owning a stand alone house in Mexico has drawbacks as well, 6 of 1,, anyway Thanks, and I gave you some rep power, all those post without any. hate to see that


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## RVGRINGO

Actually, most Mexican homes do not stand alone. They stand against their neighbors and yards, called patios, are interior to the property and very private. From the street, our home has absolutely no curb appeal, but there is an entrance long courtyard with a fountain and parking for a couple of cars. There are also a couple of interior patios, providing light and ventilation, as well as a veranda, which faces a large back yard full of fruit trees and other greenery, a small pool and two other garages entered from a side street. From the street, none of this is visible, as it would be in a stand alone house. The arrangement also provides great privacy and security, unlike a stand alone house in the center of a wide open lot. It is quite different from a condominium, in many ways, so one must consider what is really wanted, and where. I describe a rather typical city home with easy access to many amenities by walking only a block or three. A typical condo tends to be on the outskirts and require driving for every need; an inconvenience and an expense in areas with little parking space in the old colonial city layouts.


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## Isla Verde

RVGRINGO said:


> A typical condo tends to be on the outskirts and require driving for every need; an inconvenience and an expense in areas with little parking space in the old colonial city layouts.


That's not true in Mexico City - there are condominiums all over the place, several of them in my centrally-located neighborhood.


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## Longford

> A typical condo tends to be on the outskirts and require driving for every need; an inconvenience and an expense in areas with little parking space in the old colonial city layouts.


I don't think that's an accurate statement, for Mexico as a whole. Maybe that's the case Lakeside, though. In three places I know very well in Mexico: Mexico City, Acapulco and San Miguel de Allende ... there are condominiums right in the heart of each city, in the busy and best areas, where it's easy to walk to many things and/or utilize public transportation ... as well as many scattered throughout those communities.


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## TundraGreen

Longford said:


> I don't think that's an accurate statement, for Mexico as a whole. Maybe that's the case Lakeside, though. In three places I know very well in Mexico: Mexico City, Acapulco and San Miguel de Allende ... there are condominiums right in the heart of each city, in the busy and best areas, where it's easy to walk to many things and/or utilize public transportation ... as well as many scattered throughout those communities.


The differences in cities is interesting. I can't think of any condominium buildings in the center of Guadalajara. So, even though Guadalajara is very different from the Lake Chapala area, RV's comment seems to apply. There are condo complexes in other areas however, often with easy access to night life, mercados, and buses.


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## RVGRINGO

OK, I stand corrected ... in some areas, sometimes, often or not, etc.


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## HolyMole

I've lived in condominiums in Quebec and now, in British Columbia, (where they are called "stratas"), and from talking with owners of condos in Mexico, the concept of common ownership certainly seems to be very similar in both countries, if the nitty-gritty of rules and regulations may differ in the details. 
A Canadian-born friend who lives full-time in Ixtapa and owns several condo units there, ( not on the beach, but within a mile or two of same), says the biggest problem, by far, is the outright refusal of many absentee owners - almost exclusively wealthier Mexican city-dwellers - to pay their monthly maintenance fees, especially if their units are unoccupied for months at a time. The rationale seems to be: "I'm not using the unit or the amenities, so why should I pay for them?" Several times my friend's condo association has had to take long and costly legal means to seize a unit for non-payment of monthly fees....but only after the owner has fallen thousands of dollars in arrears. This situation may be more prevalent in tourist areas where units have been purchased as investments, or in the hope of steady rental income.

Another problem in condos in tourist areas, especially beachfront, is the fact that the residents at any one time are usually 1 or 2 week transients, who have little or no concern for the property itself. Those condos become far more like hotels than residences. Do you want to live in a hotel constantly full of "party-hardy" vacationers?

In my current Canadian condo/strata, we have a 55+ age restriction and a "no-rental, owner-occupied" policy, which virtually negates those kinds of problems. Perhaps there are condos in Mexico with similar bylaws. In their absence, my feeling as a potential investor in a Mexican condo is: "Why go into a residential situation in a foreign country, where the success of the development depends entirely on the goodwill of the owners, most or many of whom are non-resident and speak another language, and where the legal system is probably an unreliable tool to resolve ownership and maintenance issues?"


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## wonderphil

After looking at houses and Condos in Hawaii and Mexico for several years, my wife and I have just purchased a new beach front condo in Mexico; the bylaws in this condo are very strict (military strict even). ... and that is good if you agree with the bylaws.

For example you can not rent the condo for less that one month 



The developer said it is much easier relax the rules rather than try to try to be stricter after the fact or after people have signed the onto the HOA association rules. So after thinking about that I think it is true. It works for my wife and I. My condo development is nearly sold out with 40% owners being Americans and Canadians and 60% being Mexicans. I assume these Mexicans are fairly well to do Mexicans from the interior of the country. 

I was told that having a balance of Mexicans in the condo is good and I very much believe that for various reasons.

After looking at the maintenance fees of many condos I believe that many Americans and Canadians have no clue or only have a limited clue about what costs are in Mexico. So Mexicans know those cost better than gringos.

In my condo HOA, the fees are very reasonable in my opinion ( $174 per month).
They operate wisely for example; the 50x25 ft condo pool is heated by a heat pump and is covered at night to save on heat and various other maintenance costs just like my pool at home is. I like my pool warm but I do not like to waste money just for looks when no-one is looking at it at night. 


If people do not pay they suffer many consequences. For example, the electronic key card does not work for the elevator, gym, parking lot gate, etc etc. In addition, the HOA documents says that the condo can be repossessed for non payment of fees and penalties for not paying amounts due. 
.


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## AlanMexicali

HolyMole said:


> I've lived in condominiums in Quebec and now, in British Columbia, (where they are called "stratas"), and from talking with owners of condos in Mexico, the concept of common ownership certainly seems to be very similar in both countries, if the nitty-gritty of rules and regulations may differ in the details.
> A Canadian-born friend who lives full-time in Ixtapa and owns several condo units there, ( not on the beach, but within a mile or two of same), says the biggest problem, by far, is the outright refusal of many absentee owners - almost exclusively wealthier Mexican city-dwellers - to pay their monthly maintenance fees, especially if their units are unoccupied for months at a time. The rationale seems to be: "I'm not using the unit or the amenities, so why should I pay for them?" Several times my friend's condo association has had to take long and costly legal means to seize a unit for non-payment of monthly fees....but only after the owner has fallen thousands of dollars in arrears. This situation may be more prevalent in tourist areas where units have been purchased as investments, or in the hope of steady rental income.
> 
> Another problem in condos in tourist areas, especially beachfront, is the fact that the residents at any one time are usually 1 or 2 week transients, who have little or no concern for the property itself. Those condos become far more like hotels than residences. Do you want to live in a hotel constantly full of "party-hardy" vacationers?
> 
> In my current Canadian condo/strata, we have a 55+ age restriction and a "no-rental, owner-occupied" policy, which virtually negates those kinds of problems. Perhaps there are condos in Mexico with similar bylaws. In their absence, my feeling as a potential investor in a Mexican condo is: "Why go into a residential situation in a foreign country, where the success of the development depends entirely on the goodwill of the owners, most or many of whom are non-resident and speak another language, and where the legal system is probably an unreliable tool to resolve ownership and maintenance issues?"


Actually most "privadas" and "departamentos" [condo departments] inside Mexico 100% Mexican owned do not have HOAs and the developer maintains, guards [security and security guards etc.], and employs the people to do so and you pay a yearly fee for this and the developers have rules that are not strict in most cases. You have to consider in a "privada" you actually usually own your lot and the developer owns the walls, entrances, streets, and common areas. There might be no real comparison unless the condo or gated guarded community is set up in popular beach areas or other areas where there is a heavy concentration of US or Canadian investors which probably are the developers or Mexican investors who know the HOA system sells condos or houses or lots in "privadas" to foreigners and Mexicans alike. This system might also be catching on in non tourist areas but haven´t any information.


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## AlanMexicali

AlanMexicali said:


> Actually most "privadas" and "departamentos" [condo departments] inside Mexico 100% Mexican owned do not have HOAs and the developer maintains, guards [security and security guards etc.], and employs the people to do so and you pay a yearly fee for this and the developers have rules that are not strict in most cases. You have to consider in a "privada" you actually usually own your lot and the developer owns the walls, entrances, streets, and common areas. There might be no real comparison unless the condo or gated guarded community is set up in popular beach areas or other areas where there is a heavy concentration of US or Canadian investors which probably are the developers or Mexican investors who know the HOA system sells condos or houses or lots in "privadas" to foreigners and Mexicans alike. This system might also be catching on in non tourist areas but haven´t any information.


Correction- "condo apartments". I have been saying "departamentos" too long. :confused2: :smile:


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## GARYJ65

AlanMexicali said:


> Correction- "condo apartments". I have been saying "departamentos" too long. :confused2: :smile:


It is correct, in fact, DEPARTAMENTO EN CONDOMINIO or CONDOMINIO is what we use


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> It is correct, in fact, DEPARTAMENTO EN CONDOMINIO or CONDOMINIO is what we use


But in English it's "*a*partments" not "*d*epartments". That's what AlanMexicali meant, I believe.


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## AlanMexicali

Isla Verde said:


> But in English it's "*a*partments" not "*d*epartments". That's what AlanMexicala meant, I believe.


Correct. I put it in brackets in English.

Here everyone on calls condo apartments departamentos or rental apartments also departamentos and seem to not distinguish between the two unless asked as if I am supposed to know which is which by looking at the building. 

There are many new condo apartments being built here in nice areas by demolishing large very old homes on large lots. Some of them were quite old [100 to 200 years old] and beautiful.


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## Isla Verde

AlanMexicali said:


> There are many new condo apartments being built here in nice areas by demolishing large very old homes on large lots. Some of them were quite old [100 to 200 years old] and beautiful.


In my neighborhood in Mexico City, in fact, on my very street, nice old houses have been sold and knocked down to make way for rather ugly new apartment buildings - what a shame!


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## AlanMexicali

Isla Verde said:


> In my neighborhood in Mexico City, in fact, on my very street, nice old houses have been sold and knocked down to make way for rather ugly new apartment buildings - what a shame!


Yes when they do that it takes away the attractiveness of the colonial neighborhoods when they are mixed between what was once a high end street with large 2 story colonial houses on large lots. It is not so bad if the remodel the houses to become doctors offices, business offices or schools etc. 

The large boulevards exiting from el centro that at one time that had colonial mansions are slowly being demolished and the land turned into 3 story commercial buildings and you still see the odd mansion but they disappear regularly. Some societies and gov´t offices etc. still have the mansions and a few businesses, even a bank.

They seem to allow condos and offices to be built on most side streets here or houses converted to commercial use in nice residential old neighborhoods near downtown.


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## cj007

gringotim said:


> Since different countries/states/provinces etc have different rules for condo owners, thought I would see if anybody knows the answer. In Mexico, if you own a condo, and the building needs repairs, do all the condo owners have to chip in their share of the cost. Like if it needs repairs to the roof, or elevator, or pool, or central a/c or whatever. Do any of the HOA fee's go into a fund for emergency repairs, , is their a grace period for new owners, so you don't buy a condo then get hit with a huge bill one month later, or are you liable once you sign on the dotted line? And what about a condo that's for sale and the current owner still owes money for previous repairs to the building. I have heard of condo owners in Vancouver Canada being hit with $10-15,000 bills to cover major repairs, and a lot of people can't afford that so have take out a loan. Does this happen in Mexico as well?


My short answer is, "I don't know". My long answer is the "condo" form of "ownership" is an American convention. Most people in other countries actually OWN their properties. It may very exist in Mexico - but if so, as mentioned I haven't heard of it. 

I would suggest since you are researching this to strongly consider, outright ownership of a property...maybe supplement with a live in gardener, repairmen, cook type person who can assist with the typical general maintenance issues you may desire to avoid in a "condo" situation. That would be more culturally appropriate here in Mexico.


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## GARYJ65

cj007 said:


> My short answer is, "I don't know". My long answer is the "condo" form of "ownership" is an American convention. Most people in other countries actually OWN their properties. It may very exist in Mexico - but if so, as mentioned I haven't heard of it.
> 
> I would suggest since you are researching this to strongly consider, outright ownership of a property...maybe supplement with a live in gardener, repairmen, cook type person who can assist with the typical general maintenance issues you may desire to avoid in a "condo" situation. That would be more culturally appropriate here in Mexico.


Culturally appropriate?


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## cj007

GARYJ65 said:


> Culturally appropriate?


Yes, as in the adoption of some specific elements of one culture by a different cultural group. Some would argue that more culturally appropriate decisions are more sustainable as well and that traditional home ownership is more common outside the US. Do you disagree?

I'm not apposed to either, personally.


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## kcowan

We know owners in PV who have condos that are all over the map in terms of the effectiveness of the HOAs and the costs. Our has no HOA, just a building administrator and every major expense is a special assessment. It is owned by Mexicans except for us.

There is a condo on the beach in Nuevo where the maintenance fees for a 2BR/2 Bath oceanfront unit has HOA fees of USD 750/mo. The unit is currently asking $260k for sale. Another couple in Conchas Chinas pays $600 but that includes maid service weekly.

The problem is that you cannot generalize. All you can do is get someone to translate the docs and then talk to everyone about whether the rules mean anything in practice.

(I also have a friend who bought in Vancouver and then got hit with a special assessment of $35k to repair the building envelope for water damage even though they reviewed all the HOA (Strata) minutes. They are now living under tarps.)


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## Isla Verde

RobPhillips said:


> My friend is dealing with condos in Ontario Canada. The rules are so nice for buyers as well as owners here. According to the Ontario’s Condominium Act, Protection is provided to both buyers and owners. Their rights are saved and they can act accordingly. This will help the person to have a safe and profitable investment.


Did you mean to post this on the Mexico forum? Would you like me to move it to the Canada forum?


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## Hound Dog

Since this older thread has been revived, here is a horror story about beachfront condo living.

A couple of expat friends of ours owned a seafront condo on the beach in Akumal, Quintana Roo and, in those days, lived there part time and in Northern California part time. A few years ago, they rented it to us for a month for an amount just to cover their homeowners´ association fee for the month. While we only stayed there for about two weeks before we fled and hit the road traveling around the coast and over to Bacalar, , I´m glad we did this because staying there showed us unequivocally that we would never think of buying a beachfront resort condo anywhere in Mexico or, for that matter, anywhere on earth. Most of the owners in that high-rise condo were absentee, both Mexican and foreign who came to stay there periodically, renting out their units the rest of the time to vacationers through the condo management association. Thus the building was totally out of control filled with a new crowd of tourists every few days or so. Children raced up and down the halls screaming while their parents held raucous drunken parties in their rented rooms with hallway doors wide open to welcome friends or with those friends on the beach right below our window. The final straw was when a group of U.S. men came back from diving, got noisily drunk, stripped naked and proceeded to shower in the condos open beach shower area. riight in from of the condo´s open reataurant. 

Now, I have nothing against getting drunk at the beach and throwing raucous parties; a behavior in which I often engaged back on Northwest Florida´s Gullf Coast as a young man, but who the hell wants to establish permanent residency in what is essentially a hotel full of crazed, looped vacationers and uncontrolled brats running and screaming in the hallways.

Later, when we saw our friends again, they had decided to sell the Akumal condo and move to Merida where they had purchased a single family detached residence not subject to condo association or fraccionamiento management and fees. It turns out that they had long strongly suspected that, during their lengthy absences, the condo management associates were, at times, renting their condo on the QT without informing them or sending them the net rental payments due them after extraction of any management fees. Then one day they arrived without warning and found their unit rented without their knowledge. Now, even though they had confirmed that the association management company was cheating on them by occasionally renting their unit without always informing them, what could they do since they were at the management company´s mercy and trying to bring legal action would have almost certainly failed so, time to move on.


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## ftm68_99

*Condo*

it sounds as if the condo association has thought things through. Thanks for the description, wonderphil (sp?)


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## wonderphil

ftm68_99 said:


> it sounds as if the condo association has thought things through. Thanks for the description, wonderphil (sp?)


De nada. It was actually the developer who made the initial rules and He is an active US Navy captain (in the supply corp). He and his wife are Americans but his wife may be of duel citizenship. So they set up a Mexican corperation with the wife's father who is a Mexican citizen to do the development. He was really the boss as I was told and I can see that in some of the condo rules which I said might be considered to be strict by some people (but I like that too).

My wife and I moved in here a few weeks ago and are still getting furniture. I am very happy so far with the management of this condo and how things are maintained and how much help we have received. These people are great and just honest good people. 

We have a lot to learn, I want to learn conversational Spanish and the written language much better for one thing.


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## Corri

Unfortunately, I have heard from a friend that condo ownership is dangerous to your health and pocketbook. The home owners association has control of repairs and even how you live with all those other owners. If you like common living with a lot of other people and their problems I guess condos are ok but not from the horror stories I´ve heard. And, what if they decide not to pay the maintenance fees and the building starts to fall apart? What do you do? I don´t think so!


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## wonderphil

Corri said:


> Unfortunately, I have heard from a friend that condo ownership is dangerous to your health and pocketbook. The home owners association has control of repairs and even how you live with all those other owners. If you like common living with a lot of other people and their problems I guess condos are ok but not from the horror stories I´ve heard. And, what if they decide not to pay the maintenance fees and the building starts to fall apart? What do you do? I don´t think so!


If you buy a junk condo that might be true or if you overpay for what you purchased you might get burned but that burning and paying too much can happen no matter if you buy a house or a condo. 

No! condo ownership can be very beneficial to your wallet. You just have to make a good deal in a complex that you like and understand the HOA rules. and then as a member of the HOA, change the rules if you can get agreement from the other members. 

My routine maintenance fees on my own house in the USA are ridiculous high and off the chart in comparioson to what I pay at my condo in Mexico.


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## surfrider

I rented a condo - beach front in the Puerto Vallarta marina area from ReMax realestate. The air conditioner did not work. Since the owners were behind in their association fees and so were most of the other condo owners, the association would not fix the AC - I screamed so loud and carried on so much that the broker with ReMax was going to fix it himself. But he was short of funds so he hired these ---- people to come in and work on putting in mini splits...They were to install four mini splits and they cut into the walls and the roof eight different holes. They cut and broke a water pipe, somehow two of the toilets broke and the water filter system was broke . This was the penthouse unit! This thing rented for 4,000 USD a month for pity sake. Nothing Junkie about this place. There was a wonderful pool right on the ocean and there was a restaurant on the grounds for the residences but it was not open cause so many of the condo owners had not paid their association fees and the pool was always dirty because the staff was cut back and they only cleaned the pool once a week - there was sand all over the place.

Buy a condo for an investment - might as well throw your money out into a crowd of strangers and see how many will help you keep your money. 

There are condos that do have association laws that state a person can not rent out units but that still does not have any guarantee that each condo owner is going to financially maintain their unit or pay their association fees and that will directly effect your unit. 

With a single family home your neighbor can have chickens, goats etc. here in Mexico and that can also effect your investment. However their plumbing problems do not leak into your living room. Any time a property is attached to another persons property both properties are going to have their maintenance, the repairs, and the value involved with each other. When owners do not live year round in the units - When they do not pay the association fees - When they rent it out to who ever with no supervision - all of these are high risk factors.


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## RVGRINGO

No condo, apartment building, fraccionamento or other communal living arrangement for me, ever!
We want to live in a normal house in a normal neighborhood, paying our annual taxes and water bills; nothing more. We remain pretty much in control of our situation and do not have to fight with our neighbors, or fear that they might have the power to price us out of our own home.
Look around the world and you will see condos failing everywhere.


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## Hound Dog

_


wonderphil said:



If you buy a junk condo that might be true or if you overpay for what you purchased you might get burned but that burning and paying too much can happen no matter if you buy a house or a condo. 

No! condo ownership can be very beneficial to your wallet. You just have to make a good deal in a complex that you like and understand the HOA rules. and then as a member of the HOA, change the rules if you can get agreement from the other members. 

My routine maintenance fees on my own house in the USA are ridiculous high and off the chart in comparioson to what I pay at my condo in Mexico.

Click to expand...

[/I

Junk condo?

For ten years back in the 1980s, we lived in a high rise condominium building on San Francisco´s Russian Hill overlooking the city´s financial district, Chinatown, North Beach, two famous bridges and the bay. It´s possible but hard to find a nicer and more exclusive neighborhood than Russian Hill unless one is a willing to pay multi-millions for a residence and we bought this place in 1979 - a different and comparatively inexpensive time. Well,this was a nice looking, wood frame, seven story building on a beautiful park with spectacular views and inhabited by owners of financial means and seeming intellectual capacity . At that time the building was about ten years old and was a structure fully approved by the San Francsco building department, a city bureacracy famously strict in enforcing very strict building codes. In fact, the building codes were so strict in those days that ours was one of the last high-rise buildings allowed to be constructed on Russian Hill before developers could turn the hill into a wall-to-wall concrete Miami Beach on steroids.

Before we bought in this condo, and we bought for the incredible views and the fact that we could both walk to work in that compact city plus, the reputation of the neighborhood was impeccable, we reviewed the association´s by-laws and considered the monthly fees and the quality of the owners of the 60 unit structure who all appeared to be responsible to a fault. Now, I emphasize that this is no resort neighborhood attracting "junk" condominiums and this building exhibited no signs of marginal structural work from a layman´s point of view but then, who, buying a condo in a 60 unit building in a densely populated urban zone has the capacity to assess the structural integrity of such a building? .

About a year after we moved into that condo, while fixing some structurall deficiences in one area of the building, the building engineer in charge discovered major and dangerous construction deficiencies requiring an extrememely expensive remedial re-construction project to restore structural integrity to the building as a whole. It turned out that seven story wood-frame buildings were illegal in San Francisco, that the city/county building inspector who had approved the project back in the 1970s had retired shortly after taking that action and moved to the beach somewhere and, lo and behold, the approved plans, supposedly safely stored at city hall had mysteriously disappeared.

Keep in thind that all this happened in San Francisco, a place obsessed with the enforcement of building codes; not notoriously corrupt Mexico.

By the way, the solution of the condominiums´s board of directors was not to reconstruct the building in accordance with proper city codes and good construction standards, an obscenely expensive project, but to cover up the problems discovered and, now for nearly 30 years, to pretend those problems do not exist while many innocent buyers have purchased condo units in the building with no disclosure these events ever happened.

I would never buy in any highrise condo anywhere ever again. At least with my personal home sitting on my lot in my town, I can handle anything that comes along._


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## Corri

What if, the condos become vacant and you have to handle all the costs?
What if, the condos go rental and an undesirable element controls the lifestyle of the building?
What if, the owners are nothing more than combative and uncooperative to your living?
What if, you end up in court and cannot continue to live there?
Too many what ifs and not good solutions. Find a nice little home you can call your own and have control over. However, watch out for the neighborhood, as it can change from residential to commercial and party time until 4am in the morning, every day. Anybody have any more what ifs to add?


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## Longford

Corri said:


> Anybody have any more what ifs to add?


What if the sky falls? :help:

If someone has a closed mind they will always find a list of "what if's" to prove whatever point they want to make. That's been my observation in life. 

I've owned a home and I've owned condominiums. There are plusses and minuses involved with any real estate purchase. I've only rented in Mexico, however.

Generally .... tens of millions of people live in, own and enjoy condo life. In Mexico, owning a condo requires a bit more investigation and vigilence. Yes, living in this way, in this type of real estate ... is not for everyone. Neither is living in a house. For many years now, I've held the opinion that it's a foolish act for someone who is unfamiliar with Mexico, with a speciic part of Mexico ... to purchase real estate of any type. Live in a place for at least a year, then seriously consider such a purchase.


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## Hound Dog

_What if, the condos become vacant and you have to handle all the costs?_

*Well, you will not be able to handle all the costs if you are living an a multi-unit building and, even if you could afford to do so that would be a horrendous investment of your financial resources. Thus, you must evaluate the civic health of the community in which the condomininium is located as well as the condo ownership turnover in that particular building - information not easily available to you. The Russian Hill apartment building I mentioned in a previous post is an excellent example of why you should not undertake the task of evaluating the futiure marketability of any multi-unit condo structure or the quality of its construction. Believe me, there is no finer neighborhood than the Russian Hill area of San Francisco but the building was a piece of crap - a fact not discernable by the average buyer and I was a commercial real estate lender well versed in the business for many years before I bought there. Stay away from these white elephants. *

_What if, the condos go rental and an undesirable element controls the lifestyle of the building?_

*Re-read my post about the condo on the splendid beach in Akumal. * 


_What if, the owners are nothing more than combative and uncooperative to your living?_

*This is a common problem in fraccionamientos at Lake Chapala and we read and hear of these dreadful problems constantly. If you buy into a bad or poorly managed fraccionamiento at Lake Chapala with all of the nasty ramifications you can expect in a poorly managed development, expect the worst and also expect the problems to be practically insurmountable. You don´t want to take this on and, the fact is, you will never see the problems, usually involving nasty cliques involved in interrnecine warfare, until you have bought the property and lived there for a while and then it´s too late.

Avoid these places as you would a mental hospital.*_

hat if, you end up in court and cannot continue to live there_?

*You do not want, under even the best circumstances, to end up in the impossibly complicated court system in Mexico. Forget the foulest circumstances which will introduce you to hell on earth. You enter into this civic malaise and you lose. It´s that simple. Avoid involvement altogether. *


Too many what ifs and not good solutions. Find a nice little home you can call your own and have control over. However, watch out for the neighborhood, as it can change from residential to commercial and party time until 4am in the morning, every day. Anybody have any more what ifs to add?[/quote]

*Mark my words. Stay clear of condominium of fracciamianto developments completely in Mexico or risk your mental health and financial viability.*


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## lagoloo

I'll add to the caveats about finding out as much as possible about the neighborhood:

Do not buy a house behind a defunct restaurant or other business or a vacant lot zoned commercial.
Live example: A couple I know bought a beautiful home in an upscale neighborhood. The catch:
The house was a block off the main road going through the Lakeside area. The defunct restaurant directly in front of them was re-opened by a successful restauranteur and even (gasp) has music, and on Mexican Independance Day, had fireworks..... which upset their pets. The vacant lot next to it put in a car wash. The lot on the other side has livestock. The road itself produces noise from trucks, etc.
Moral of story: Check out not only what IS there, but what the potential may be. Some things cannot be anticipated. One example is a man on our street whose across-the-street neighbor remodeled to three stories (oh yeah, illegal...but they knew the "right" people) and the top story looks right down into their patio and pool area. Once a thing is built in Mexico, it tends to stay there, legal or not.
As far as HOA's and Condo's are concerned.........no way for me, for all the sensible reasons cited above by others.


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## TundraGreen

I moved a few posts from this thread to a new one titled "Aid in an emergency". They were off topic here and seemed like they warranted their own thread.


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## kcowan

Condo ownership is pretty common here in PV. Most of the owners (70%) are nationals from Guad and DF.

Collection of fees and special assessments are a continuing problem. Among new construction, getting titles can also be a problem.

We own our own condo here and we consider the extra problems more than compensate for the risks in leaving a SF home alone for many months. We thoroughly evaluated both options before buying.


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## Shawndy

We own a condo in a nice smaller complex in San Jose del Cabo that is inhabited by mostly western Canadians like us and love it! Nice weather and friendly people combined with a strong HOA makes it the best of both worlds for my wife and i.


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## SakeDads

We are coming down soon to PV for 4 to 6 weeks (have been coming for 10 years) to investigate retiring/moving there. We live in Vegas and have to decide if a) we want to sell the house b) get an apt, condo or house in PV and c) decide if we really want to move or just spend 3-6 months at a time there. Would love to meet when we are there to discuss all the decisions you went through. We don't know when we are coming as we are awaiting our old girl to decide she is done with us before we book. But probably within the next couple of months.


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## Hound Dog

You have to be* insane *to buy a condo anywhere in Mexico. There is no reasonable enforcement of rules requiring that condo owners pay their fairly and contracted dues and as for buying on the beach, that´s even worse. There you are in your condo on the beach and all the units around you are rented out to drunken morons renting and raising hell and their unruly and creepy kids are running, uncontrolled, up and down the halls screaming at the top of their lungs and the next week you have a brand new group of borrachos wth their uncontrolled little creeps running up and down the halls and there you are and, as it happens. the condo management has you by the balls and is totally dishonest and renting your condo without informing you and stealing your rent and, since they are in charge of managing the building, there is nothing you can do to stop this constant and open theft and dishonesty except confront these terrible creeps and then you leave and they screw you to the Wall. If you buy a condo in Mexico no matter how nice the área and how nice the management seems, you should have your head examined to see if there is any brain there at all.


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## kcowan

While I agree that condo ownership has it good and bad points, I consider Hound Dog's portrayal as being extreme. I am sure there are some condos like that. Fortunately, my friends and I have never experienced what he describes first hand. And I am talking about a dozen condos in PV, both on the beach and off.

In fact, of all our friends, only two couples have experienced less that honest behaviour and they were both in the same condo complex. While they were granted title, they later discovered liens against their units.


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## Isla Verde

kcowan said:


> While I agree that condo ownership has it good and bad points, I consider Hound Dog's portrayal as being extreme. I am sure there are some condos like that. Fortunately, my friends and I have never experienced what he describes first hand. And I am talking about a dozen condos in PV, both on the beach and off.
> 
> In fact, of all our friends, only two couples have experienced less that honest behaviour and they were both in the same condo complex. While they were granted title, they later discovered liens against their units.


What about the drunks and bratty kids that Hound Dog mentions?


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## Hound Dog

kcowan said:


> While I agree that condo ownership has it good and bad points, I consider Hound Dog's portrayal as being extreme. I am sure there are some condos like that. Fortunately, my friends and I have never experienced what he describes first hand. And I am talking about a dozen condos in PV, both on the beach and off.
> 
> In fact, of all our friends, only two couples have experienced less that honest behaviour and they were both in the same condo complex. While they were granted title, they later discovered liens against their units.


No matter how you slice it, these liens against a property thought to be lien free at purchase is a big deal if liens later show up once title has changed. Yhis is the worst kind of fraud and anyone who does not realize this is an idiot
.


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## Hound Dog

_


kcowan said:



While I agree that condo ownership has it good and bad points, I consider Hound Dog's portrayal as being extreme. I am sure there are some condos like that. Fortunately, my friends and I have never experienced what he describes first hand. And I am talking about a dozen condos in PV, both on the beach and off.

In fact, of all our friends, only two couples have experienced less that honest behaviour and they were both in the same condo complex. While they were granted title, they later discovered liens against their units.

Click to expand...

_Look, k, we have no dog in this hunt. We own two properties in disparate regions in Mexico from Jalisco to Chiapas, two very different states with very different laws and owned properties in Alabama and California and France before that and I will tell you this ; these places have *NOTHING *in common under the law or in the application of common sense so do not lecture me about logic. We are Mexican citizens and hold on to our properties by the seats of our pants.

Getting back to the subject; if you buy a condo in Mexico, you have to be off your rocker


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## kcowan

Condo regimes vary widely even in the same city. It is always wise to be cautious in approaching any purchase. But a few of us condo owners are not off our rockers and are experiencing a very positive outcome. Granted that is more of a rarity in Mexico than elsewhere but is certainly happens!


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## Longford

There are probably millions of condo owners throughout Mexico. Many expats own condo's. And, yes, we've discusssed the + and - of such property ownership. The culture of property ownership is different. The legal protections/enforcements are different. Mexico isn't the USA, or Canada. Not all condo owners are fools. The cautions against purchasing a condominium in Mexico are, in some ways, similar to cautions against purchasing a home or any other real estate - in Mexico. There are enough horror stories to go around.


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## AlanMexicali

Longford said:


> There are probably millions of condo owners throughout Mexico. Many expats own condo's. And, yes, we've discusssed the + and - of such property ownership. The culture of property ownership is different. The legal protections/enforcements are different. Mexico isn't the USA, or Canada. Not all condo owners are fools. The cautions against purchasing a condominium in Mexico are, in some ways, similar to cautions against purchasing a home or any other real estate - in Mexico. There are enough horror stories to go around.


That is true and I have to say condo ownership here is huge as home prices are much more to buy into now. They have built literaly tens of thousands of new "departamentos" for sale plus business locales and offices "en condómino" here and is the new way to own a business store or office and home.

I don´t think anyone is foolish to buy one as the rules are 10 pages long and have strict enforcemnet now, before stating outdated info. might not apply today.

We have 3 and are very secure in what we are doing, plus bought a lot and built in a "privada."

Buying "departamentos" here has been around for decades including the run down small INFONAVIT apartments in buildings grouped together that are 30 years old in some sections of the city. One area has thousands of them in a few block radius and I would venture to guess were very cheap to purchase by a working class family. Too bad they could not get them "kept up" as they are well constructed.

It might be where we live is much better in many legal matters and respect to people´s property than some other areas as this state is no slouch in many regards to protecing property and rights, it appears.

Friends in Puerto Vallarta have minor complaints about their condo association but no legal insecurities.


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## slats

This is a great thread, I'm so glad it was bumped. 

Before I'm completely frightened away from buying a condo in Mexico (and I'm close!), I'm curious as to what owners see as the advantage of owning one over a single-family dwelling.


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## Longford

slats said:


> This is a great thread, I'm so glad it was bumped.
> 
> Before I'm completely frightened away from buying a condo in Mexico (and I'm close!), I'm curious as to what owners see as the advantage of owning one over a single-family dwelling.


The advantages / disadvantages aren't much different as the same apply to purchasing a condominium anyplace else - in either the USA or Canada. People tend to opt to purchase a condominium because they want the association and building staff to handle upkeep, maintenance and repairs, collectively purchase gas and maybe other utilities. Such a purchase in Mexico is particularly attractive to expats who are in-country only seasonally. Theoretically, you can more easily simply lock-up your condo and be on your way as compared to if you have a home the home sits by itself when you're away and in Mexico I know of very few expats who leave their home for longer than a day or two without having someone either house-sit, a muchacha live-in or household help or a friend frequently visit the house to make certain nobody has broken-in. There are gated communities which operate similar to condo associations, but homes are still a bit more exposed. There's a good reason most homes you'll see in Mexico have bars on the windows, and oftentimes the doors, and alarm systsems. Pros and cons for both lifestyles.


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## Hound Dog

[


kcowan said:


> While I agree that condo ownership has it good and bad points, I consider Hound Dog's portrayal as being extreme. I am sure there are some condos like that. Fortunately, my friends and I have never experienced what he describes first hand. And I am talking about a dozen condos in PV, both on the beach and off.
> 
> In fact, of all our friends, only two couples have experienced less that honest behaviour and they were both in the same condo complex. While they were granted title, they later discovered liens against their units.



I´m sure you are right kcowan in asserting that there are good condo experiences to be had in Mexico but the risk of buying into a bad property is always there only to be discovered later after title has changed and one is up the creek without a paddle. In addition to that, one of the serious problems in Mexico is that enforcement of condominium association rules by legal authorities is uncertain at best.

I have never owned nor would own a condo in Mexico but did own a condo in a high rise multi-unit residential building on Russian Hill with splendid views - one of San Francisco´s most desirable áreas. A condo one would think would be inhabited by well-to-do owners of impeccable character in general. I was even the president of the condo association for a nearly year before getting the hell out of there. That experience did not reinforce any residual faith I may have had left in the integrity of all those "high falutin" folks with whom I shared ownership in that 60 unit, seven story structure. Sincé I had been elected president son after buying a unit there, I was privy to information that the building was ilegal under San Francisco´s building codes, that the city building inspector who had approved the building´s plan had shortly thereafter retired to Mexico a wealthy man, that some units in the high-rise structure were in danger of collapsing and that it would cost millions of dollars to retrofit the building to make it structurally sound in accordance with city building specifications. To make a long story short, I could get no support from the condo board to try to make necessary repairs in order to bring the structure up to proper standards, I resigned my presidency, was replaced by someone else and a new board that covered up the entire fiasco and I was out of there. About the only way that anyone of limited means could buy a view residence on Russian Hill in those days (the early 1980s) was to buy a condo unit as single family residences were impossibly expensive in that neighbohood so that is why I relented and bought a condo unit in the first place for the first time in my life.

However, that unpleasant experience in San Francisco is not the reason I wrote my seemingly "extreme" comment on the dangers of condo ownership in Mexico. Unlike California, Mexican statutes backing the governance of condominium associations and the enforcement of rules maintaining civility in accordance with board management decisions - including, importantly, collection of agreed association dues from members - are, to put it in the vernacular, somewhat toothless. 

About five years ago, we rented a beachfront condo in Akumal, Quintana Roo for a month from a friend who, at that time, lived in California and spent only one month in Akumal each year while renting out the condo the rest of the year. That is the time we discovered that she could not trust the association management company but could do nothing about their renting the unit on occasion without informing her of the rentals since she wasn´t there and could prove nothing. We also found out about the unruly behavior of beachgoing renters and their in-unit parties and uncontrolled brats running about and screeching in the hallways who had no respect for full-time residents. A raucous and intolerable environment for us, at least. Incidentally, we were not owners there but we have owned property for years on the sea and know about the costs of maintaining properties subject to seawater spray damage day after day. 

To each his/her own.


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## kcowan

Well Hound Dog, I think you have revealed the sources of your bias. It seems to stem from San Francisco. I wholeheartedly agree that condo ownership is fraught with pitfalls wherever it is. And nothing in Mexico makes it inherently safer. In fact, legal recourse is much less likely to be successful.

Like anywhere, it is Buyer Beware, and particularly so in Mexico.


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## AlanMexicali

Longford said:


> The advantages / disadvantages aren't much different as the same apply to purchasing a condominium anyplace else - in either the USA or Canada. People tend to opt to purchase a condominium because they want the association and building staff to handle upkeep, maintenance and repairs, collectively purchase gas and maybe other utilities. Such a purchase in Mexico is particularly attractive to expats who are in-country only seasonally. Theoretically, you can more easily simply lock-up your condo and be on your way as compared to if you have a home the home sits by itself when you're away and in Mexico I know of very few expats who leave their home for longer than a day or two without having someone either house-sit, a muchacha live-in or household help or a friend frequently visit the house to make certain nobody has broken-in. There are gated communities which operate similar to condo associations, but homes are still a bit more exposed. There's a good reason most homes you'll see in Mexico have bars on the windows, and oftentimes the doors, and alarm systsems. Pros and cons for both lifestyles.


I needed to have a friend live in my house in Mexicali for 1 1/2 years for free even though he used to keep my car clean and the yard and empty the mailbox. It sat empty too long a few times and bugluries started occuring and I had a central alarm that scared them off. 

Here I notice an empty house or building that is not cleaned up gets tagged and after awhile in poorer areas or commercial zones is loaded with tags and quite an eyesore at that point.


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## Longford

In Mexico City (and probably elsewhere in Mexico) _Semana Santa_ is a particularly lucrative time for home burglars - because so many people travel. Many of my friends and co-workers would draw straws amongst family members to see which one would stay behind to ward-off a burglary. Apartments and homes are oftentimes marked on the exterior in a way the burglars have pre-identified the property as ripe for the picking.

I recall one year in particular, my apartment (not condo) was broken-into when I was away in Acapulco for the week. I lived in a building in Colonia Centro where the gate into the apartment building was locked and where other residents, and a _portera _were on-site. Maybe 30 apartments. I thought everything would be fine. The windows had bars. The door had small panes of glass but no iron gate. 

I returned home from the short vacation at the beach to find my front door off its hinges and set to one side of the exterior of the second second floor apartment, and anything of value had been removed. 

When I knocked on the doors of my neighbors to see if they saw/heard anything ... they, after some discussion, sheepishly, almost to a man/woman, not looking me in the eyes, said they heard the burglary, watched the burglars cart-off my things ... and did and said nothing. I was furious in my response. My across-the hall neighbors (entrances were on the exterior of the building for each apartment - open air) confessed they were fearful that had they attempted to intervene, even call-out to scare the burglars, their apartment would then have been targeted next. So they, and other neighbors, just sat behind the curtains peeking out hoping the burglary would begin/end at my place and not continue to theirs. 

Calling the police wasn't even considered, due to distrust. One of the burglars, the one whom they described as politely knocking on my door calling out asking if anyone was home (before breaking-in) ... was _policia auxiliar_ in full uniform (or someone impersonating a policeman). Like my neighbors ... I learned, for future trips ... not to tell anyone I was going to be out of town. I put lights on a timer, radio and TV as well. And I used my cellphone to call the land-line apartment telephone, from time to time. And I paid to install an iron-bar gate in front of the door to the apartment.

One of my neighbors in particular spent time with me to explain the mind-set of the neighbors and past incidents not just in that building but in the colonia and elsewhere where friends of the family lived. He explained though he was ashamed of his inaction and the fear he and his family felt, his principal concern was himself and his family ... and their well being. I understood and to this day we remain friends who share time together when I return to the D.F. to visit.

Most of us come from backgrounds where we either still live or lived in communities where stringent property security risks weren't as necessary as they are in many parts of Mexico. That's one of the adjustments most expats transitioning into Mexico need to make. We're not in _Kansas_, anymore. Most of us are out of our element and not everyone learns/adapts as quickly as the next in line. If there's any comfort in all of this it's knowing that most of the time we're not singled-out because we're expats. Such criminals provide equal opportunity, to Mexicans and Expats alike. Crimes of opportunity rather than things which are planned-out. The best advice I've seen offered is to respond/behave as local residents do. Learn from the mistakes/experiences of others.

Now, what does all of this have to do with the discussion about condominiums? The generally accepted belief is that condominium buildings offer more and better security than apartment buildings or stand-alone homes. Many have door-persons checking on who comes/goes ... and with what. Choosing to live in a condominium property where many or most units are rented seasonally, and particularly during the two principal Mexican holiday periods of year-end and Semana Santa ... especially in waterfront destinations ... presents all sorts of different challenges that the less transient and full-time residential buildings do.


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## pv2b

*Condo owner reply*

Hola,

This is my first post so please be easy on me. I signed up for this service a couple of years ago when we were looking for information on all things Mexico. At the time we were in the process of purchasing a CONDO in Puerto Vallarta that was under construction. We had been coming to PV for many years and knew the area. 

For us it is a short flight from San Francisco. We can lock the door and leave knowing that our property manager and on site staff have everything under control. When we aren’t in PV, the unit is a rental which covers all of our expenses. Some day we plan on spending more than a few months out of the year in PV. 

For the record Mexico has basic laws that apply to condos. Local municipalities can add there unique or more specific requirements. Which PV does. The laws are very similar to what California’s laws for condos are. In fact they may be a bit more specific in some areas. Things like a clean title, no liens, property taxes up to date, etc. 

When we were negotiating our purchase (or should I say bank trust) I asked the realtor for a copy of the HOA rules, agreement, incorporation papers and local condo laws. She said that I was the first person to ever ask for or actually read the municipal condo regulations. 

Purchasing Mexican real estate directly or through a bank trust is fraught with risks. Like all real estate purchases you need to do your due diligence or you may be in for a rude awaking. 

Whether your HOA follows the rules, has the legal ability to enforce them, has a reserve account, accounting procedures in order, adequate and timely auditing of the books is another question.

My 2 pesos 

P.S. This forum in my humble opinion is one of the best.


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## Corri

Longford said:


> I haven't owned a condominium (or a home) in Mexico, so I can't say with certainty what laws or regulations apply. I know many people, expats, who own homes and condominiums and my impression has always been they mostly don't know the answer to the question ... either. It could be a federal regulation (so much in Mexico is done from the top-down rather than bottom-up), or something at the state level.
> 
> My impression has been, and continues to be, that condominium ownership and resolution of the issues involving association finances and administration are very different in the coastal communities where you have condominiums than they are in, say, Mexico City or Guadlajara ... the stable, less seasonally-occupied communities.
> 
> I can offer some insight to condominium ownership/administration in Acapulco because I most often use the apartment of an expat friend there who keeps a place for vacations. It's one of the original condominium buildings in Acapulco, right on the water in the older section of the city. Two associations, actually. Two buildings, one in front of the other, one taller than the other. I've been in and out of the building for 15 years.
> 
> Firstly, most of the apartments there are owned by people who live in Mexico City. Acapulco is the playground for people in Mexico City because it's a 3.5 to 4 hour drive by car. Within easy reach. Though, in the early days of this building, in the 60s/70s, there were many more expats with apartments there in the building. Honests building administrators seem hard to come by. There are frequent allegations of misuse of funds, not just at this building ... but at some others I'm aware of in Acapulco. Less than half the owners pay their assessments and those who do pay only when forced to ... at Christmas/New Years and Easter when they want to use the building and need gas/water, clean facilities, etc. The rest of the year a few of the year-round residents pay ... and th expats pay.
> 
> The situation became very frustrating and water and gas was shut off to my friend and other residents because not enough money was being paid into assessments. And cleaning services and landscaping was discontinued for the same reason. So some of the more diligent owners simply ran separate water lines to their apartment .... traversing sidewalks, walls, etc., so they had water which they paid for separately. And they did the same with gas ... installing tanks at their apartments to have a constant supply.
> 
> The pool hasn't been used in 4 years because there isn't enough money in reserves/income to repair a crack or even to pay for the water to fill it or chemicals to keep the water sanitary. My friend and a a couple of other expat owners were paying all of these costs themselves, entirely, because they wanted to use the pool ... like they paid for the gas and water for everyone in the building, previous to getting their own tanks, etc.
> 
> Several years ago when I was there in September the administrator asked to meet with me as a representative of the few expat owners left ... because one of the two buildings developed a structural problem and there were no funds to hire the engineering and pay his fee to figure out a solution so there wouldn't be continued deterioration. There are probably 10 units in this particular building, the second of the two, and none of the Mexican owners were willing to pay their share. The attitude in this building almost always is "Let the Gringos pay." So I spoke with the expat owners who paid almost all of the fees. For all of these special items my friend and the other expats apply against future monthly assessments and therefore there's even less money to keep the property in good condition.
> 
> I've seen this same situation over and over, in Acapulco. I've also seen it in Veracruz. These are older buildings for which the owners don't have the money to keep up the property and in many instances they've inherited the condos or just squatted in them long enough to become, essentially, the owner. There are also a number of abandoned units, the owners of which nobody seems certain.
> 
> So, what's the legal recourse? In Mexico, generally, the laws and regulations seem to favor the deadbeats. The legal system is so completely corrupted and ineffective there seems to be little recourse unless someone has the time and moneyh to retain a lawyer with connections and who is willing to pay bribes to resolve a matter. Expats are at a distinct disadvantage in disputes because we're most often considered "rich" in comparison to people who may be taking advantage of us. And it's not just a certain economic class which the deadbeats are drawn from. It can be from among all groups.
> 
> For the most part, you're left to fend for yourself.
> 
> Now, not all is doom and gloom and the problems I describe above aren't experienced 1005 of the time in all of Mexico. The resort/coastal areas is where many expats want to buy and they're most often seasonal visitors. There are locations/buildings where such problems are minimal. But finding whch and where is the challenge.
> 
> If I were looking for a condominium in one of these seaside areas I would hope to find one in a building occupied mostly by expats ... people primarily from the USA and Canada. A grouping of people sharing a similar culture and standards of acceptability. In the interior of the country there are many fine condominium buildings where problems are minimal, but, once again, it depends upon the make-up of the ownership.
> 
> I've rambled a bit, but these have been my observations and experiences.
> 
> By the way, there are similar challenges, oftentimes, in rental situations. Problems aren't limited to condominium buildings. Some apartment buildings present a challenge as well.


Boy, have you hit the nail! Your experience is very valid. In my opinion it is a big mistake to buy into a condominium complex. There are regulations that appear to make it workable, however, on the whole, they are ignored. The homeowner association consists of a group of people who inevitably end up going to war with each other. There is never enough money to pay for the basic expenses, much less any repairs needed. The administrator ends up being the King and that is part of the war. Any reasonable voices are shouted down and become silent or just go away. If there is a management company, they become the police force of the administrator. The individual homeowner of a condominium is virtually helpless and usually ends up trying to sell because of the constant stress factor. So, if you buy into the condominium hell, please don´t say you were never warned. Thanks for listening.


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## Corri

GARYJ65 said:


> I would suggest, for Mexico as well as for any other Country, do not expect things, you can talk beforehand and agree on every subject, then write it down and sign it.
> 
> Much easier


 Good idea to write down and sign your agreements. But, I have a question. Who is going to enforce the signed agreement? Is anyone going to the expense of a lawyer, much less going to court?

However, there is a recourse little known and rarely used. It takes a lot of time and patience but they are really there to help. They are PROFECO. The problem is that they have very few offices and are usually only in the big cities. You can expect a result in your favor if you have the documentation, but expect to have to visit their offices many, many, many times, and you will have to face your adversary there as well who also have their friend the lawyer with them at no cost to them. 

Lots of laws, regulations, agreements, but very little enforcement. Be very careful!


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## kcowan

I just wanted to thank Hound Dog and Longford for taking the time to point out the problems of owning in Mexico. And particularly Longford identifies that these situations affect Mexicans as often as expats. I should add that the condo complex here that had liens against all their properties was developed by a Texan who had a sterling reputation before pulling this stunt. He has left the country.

It seems that all developers start out OK and then adapt to the Mexican Way.

One other thing to beware is buying pre-construction. At that point you are totally dependent on the behaviour of the developer. They use lots of tricks to entice potential buyers. One is to offer many common services and set the HOA fees unusually low. Once enough units are sold, he can adjust the HOA fees to whatever level he desires. Multiple pools, restaurants and shops can all contribute to higher HOA fees. Also having permanent staff because they get yearly raises and all benefits paid.

A friend from WI bought pre-construction for $260k and sold 2 years later for $440k. His HOA fees were $275/mo. Now, 8 years later, it is up for resale for $260k but the HOA fees have climbed to $750/mo. Buying is like getting the right to rent.

South of town is even worse at Condo Gemelas where tiny resale units are only asking $125k but with $750/mo fees. Because the metrics from NOTB do not apply, developers get away with pre-construction sales over and over again. There is always a new batch of suckers buying while here on a 7-day all inclusive trip. Of course, they claim that you can rent out your unit. But just try to get any of that revenue. Don't rely on your neighbours to report anything. A friend has an internet cam in his condo. So it remains unrented. Even his maid quit when she learned about it.

One of my friends has just purchased his 3rd condo here. So far he has stayed on top of things by taking part in the HOA. Plus he is a young retired CEO with lots of energy. He also just purchased his 3rd yacht, a 64 foot beauty here in Vancouver. He can afford it!

So I would like to underscore the cautions being offered here. I also know a couple of people that bought pre-construction and lost of their capital in two separate condo situations!

(I had an accident with a bus. It was clearly his fault as he cut me off. We negotiated a settlement before calling the police. I paid him 1200 pesos. Pragmatism is always better than idealism here in Mexico!)


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## gringotim

*If not a Condo, then What?*

It,s clear that a lot of people, (at least on this forum), don't like the idea of condo ownership/living, The main reasons why WE would be interested in a condo is for price, a beach location and/or ocean view, security, the amenities and not having to do house repairs and yard work etc,. So what are the alternatives if you don't want to risk owning a condo in Mexico? maybe a free standing house with all the associated yard work and building maintenance, with bars on all the windows, property surrounded by 10ft high concrete walls with barbed wire and a few pitbulls? Doesn't sound like my idea of retirement. And if you choose a gated community, are you not also then paying hoa's just like a condo? 
There's another forum I read where theres always talk about breakins and burglaries that have occurred in the area, and its always free standing houses. Or they go away for a month and come back only to find the house ransacked or worse, squatters living in it. I guess its like everything, you only hear about problems people have had, maybe because people who have had no problems don't need to vent?


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## lagoloo

Hold the pitbulls, por favor.
I've lived in our current casa for seven years with no breakins, but then, I live on a wall to wall houses street in the middle of a mixed-Mexican/****** village. I have no critters on board except for the birds flocking in to our fountain.
Yes, we have bars on the windows. Most houses in the villages do. 
There are some very nice gated communities where the security is good enough that the owners don't worry. Even though there are HOA and dues, the important thing is that the homeowner has control of his/her own property.

If I were you, I'd try to find a condo to rent for a while before buying and find out for yourself whether the positives outweigh the negatives.
Personally, I would never, ever buy a condo in Mexico, for all the reasons others have cited.


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## Isla Verde

lagoloo said:


> Yes, we have bars on the windows. Most houses in the villages do.


Bars on the windows are part of traditional Mexican/Spanish architecture and not necessarily needed because of serious security problems.


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## kcowan

When we were buying our home insurance, the agent informed us that theft insurance only covered armed holdup. We spent the money on bars. So far so good. We only live here 6 months a year. But have not been robbed in 7 years of ownership.

If you are in Mexico on a non-lucrativa visa, you cannot receive rent for your place. So the sales pitch on offsetting your HOA and other costs is quite misleading. According to the law, you cannot even receive payments for craigslist sales!


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## AlanMexicali

Isla Verde said:


> Bars on the windows are part of traditional Mexican/Spanish architecture and not necessarily needed because of serious security problems.


They keep teenagers from sneaking out the window after bedtime, also.


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## RTL44

lagoloo said:


> If I were you, I'd try to find a condo to rent for a while before buying and find out for yourself whether the positives outweigh the negatives.
> Personally, I would never, ever buy a condo in Mexico, for all the reasons others have cited.



This is excellent advice. When I first decided to move to Mexico, I was intent on purchasing a condo. I stayed at a particular condo in Playacar every year for 10 years hoping to one day purchase a unit and live there. I became friends with many people down there and also the owner of this particular unit. 

It is easy to fall in love with a condo or the idea of condo ownership at first because of all of the things mentioned in regards to security and maintenance, but, there are also many negatives. Kind of like falling in love, we tend to be blinded to some hidden things that may not surface until you are already hooked.

As a few people have mentioned, HOA fees can go up astronomically and you may have no control over it. Management companies and their employees may be corrupt as well as maids or repairmen. Other owners may rent to virtually anyone and not care if they are 18 year old spring breakers who have little or no respect for anything or anyone. It is likely that there will be a lot vacationers staying in most of the condos and their excitement, while understandable, can get old if you see and hear it every day if living there full time. There is also a lack of privacy with most condo settings. 

Having said all of this, each person needs to decide what best suits their needs. I am not necessarily anti-condo, but there is more to it that meets the eye at first glance. 

Renting a condo long term before buying one makes a lot of sense. Several months should give you the insight it took me years to get (in my short 1-2 week increments).


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## kcowan

Actually, in most condo rental situations, you should be able get a good rate for 12 months. Most condos on the beach make their money between mid-Dec and mid-Mar and would prefer not to rent to Mexicans in the summer owing to added wear and tear. So getting a yearly rental that is higher than 4 months can be attractive.

You might have to vacate when the owners want to come but that can be your chance to explore the surroundings. This works really well in the Caribbean as well.

And, of course, you avoid the tax liability if you own and try to rent out.


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## sparks

Isla Verde said:


> Bars on the windows are part of traditional Mexican/Spanish architecture and not necessarily needed because of serious security problems.


Maybe if you live several stories up. Ground floor they are necessary security bars. Attractive "Spanish-ish" iron work or purely utilitarian bars ..... your choice


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## gringotim

The consensus on hear seems to be DON'T buy a condo, rent instead, but how can you settle down and live year round in a rented condo when there is always the possibility that you will have to move because the owner wants to live there or sells the condo or decides to double the rent. If reasons not to buy a condo are because contracts regarding ownership responsibilities aren't always enforced, why should one expect rental contracts to be enforced? If you say don't buy because what if hoa's aren't paid by other owners resulting in things not getting done or power or water etc being turned off to the building because the bills aren't being paid, as a renter, it would seem you have even less rights. if that happens when renting you still might not have maintenance and repairs done, and then what, pack up and move with maybe only a few days notice? The type and location of a condo we would want to live in would rent for at least $1000 U.S a month, so after 10 years, that's $120k gone, with nothing to show for it. If we buy for $200k, and for some strange reason the value in 10 years is only $100k, isn't that still better than being out $120k, especially since the odds are the value will be at the very least, the same, but probably more, especially with the number of expats with money wanting to move to Mexico from the US and Canada. I'm soooo confused.


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## lagoloo

If you really, really want the condo experience, go for it, but I think what most of us on here are advising is CAUTION before plunking down your hard earned money. 

You might well be able to get a good renting deal on a condo the owner is reduced to renting out on years lease basis since it isn't selling. What you need in any rental situation is a good lease agreement, drawn up with all the details listed and the time period named.......in English AND Spanish. (Must be in Spanish to be valid). This should protect you from being tossed out on short notice.
Don't do any deals on a verbal agreement. Ever.
They are worth the paper they aren't written on.


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## Longford

gringotim said:


> ... especially with the number of expats with money wanting to move to Mexico from the US and Canada.


I'm still waiting to see all those "... expats with money wanting to Move to Mexico ..." :whoo:


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## RTL44

gringotim said:


> The consensus on hear seems to be DON'T buy a condo, rent instead, but how can you settle down and live year round in a rented condo when there is always the possibility that you will have to move because the owner wants to live there or sells the condo or decides to double the rent. If reasons not to buy a condo are because contracts regarding ownership responsibilities aren't always enforced, why should one expect rental contracts to be enforced? If you say don't buy because what if hoa's aren't paid by other owners resulting in things not getting done or power or water etc being turned off to the building because the bills aren't being paid, as a renter, it would seem you have even less rights. if that happens when renting you still might not have maintenance and repairs done, and then what, pack up and move with maybe only a few days notice? The type and location of a condo we would want to live in would rent for at least $1000 U.S a month, so after 10 years, that's $120k gone, with nothing to show for it. If we buy for $200k, and for some strange reason the value in 10 years is only $100k, isn't that still better than being out $120k, especially since the odds are the value will be at the very least, the same, but probably more, especially with the number of expats with money wanting to move to Mexico from the US and Canada. I'm soooo confused.


Your comparison is not necessarily accurate. If you purchase a condo for $200k your aren't including the HOA fees which can range from $100-$1000/month depending on the location. If you factor that in, the costs are not that different. 

PLUS, I don't think anyone was suggesting that you rent a condo for 10 years. It was suggested that you rent for one year so you could get a feel for the area in which you would be living, get a feel for condo living, learn from the experience and make a decision based on that.


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## Longford

RTL44 said:


> PLUS, I don't think anyone was suggesting that you rent a condo for 10 years. It was suggested that you rent for one year so you could get a feel for the area in which you would be living, get a feel for condo living, learn from the experience and make a decision based on that.


Yes, that's the advice often given by persons a bit more familiar with living in Meico than a "newbie." Many people in Mexico, expats and Mexicans alike, own and live in condos ... happily. As with any other situation ... there are exceptions, and some owners are unhappy with that form of ownership, for various reasons. I live in a condominium in the USA and I have neighbors in the building who are unhappy, also.


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## gringotim

RTL44 said:


> .....PLUS, I don't think anyone was suggesting that you rent a condo for 10 years. ....


 I started this thread 10 months ago today, and although it has 100 replies, if you take out the ones that have nothing to do with the topic, and read between the lines of others, and read the ones below, then it sure sounds like renting is whats being suggested by most, if not, then what, squatting? I think this thread has run it's course, Gracias to all who replied, we will keep all suggestions in mind. :high5:

"I wouldn't invest in any of them, no how, no way." by Lagaloo

"As far as HOA's and Condo's are concerned.........no way for me" by Lagaloo

"I am trying to come up with one good reason why anyone would invest money in a situation where you have little or no control over how the Board of Directors is going to manage the complex." by Lagaloo

"No condo, apartment building, fraccionamento or other communal living arrangement for me, ever!..............Look around the world and you will see condos failing everywhere.", by RVGRINGO

"What if, the condos become vacant and you have to handle all the costs?
What if, the condos go rental and an undesirable element controls the lifestyle of the building? What if, the owners are nothing more than combative and uncooperative to your living? What if, you end up in court and cannot continue to live there?
Too many what ifs and not good solutions. " by Corri

"Mark my words. Stay clear of condominium of fracciamianto developments completely in Mexico or risk your mental health and financial viability". by Hound Dog

"You have to be insane to buy a condo anywhere in Mexico...... If you buy a condo in Mexico no matter how nice the area and how nice the management seems, you should have your head examined to see if there is any brain there at all." by Hound Dog

" Getting back to the subject; if you buy a condo in Mexico, you have to be off your rocker " by Hound Dog

"....In my opinion it is a big mistake to buy into a condominium complex. There are regulations that appear to make it workable, however, on the whole, they are ignored...... if you buy into the condominium hell, please don´t say you were never warned" by Corri 
and so on and so on.......


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## kcowan

gringotim
I own a condo and have few regrets. But I would advise that you approach it with great caution. We had vacationed in PV since 1984 and rented for 5 years before buying in 2007. Even then it is not perfect but it is the best of a bad world that we can tolerate.

YMMV


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## cowichangang

kcowan said:


> gringotim
> I own a condo and have few regrets. But I would advise that you approach it with great caution. We had vacationed in PV since 1984 and rented for 5 years before buying in 2007. Even then it is not perfect but it is the best of a bad world that we can tolerate.
> 
> YMMV


If you can, or are willing , Can you elaborate why its not perfect, ie: problems you have encountered since becoming an owner of a condo in PV, and whether they have been rectified, if so, how easy it was. How many units in your complex, Is your condo complex primarily lived in by expats, Mexicans, holiday renters, are all/most units lived in all year round etc. My sister lives in a subdivision of about 30 houses here in Duncan BC that was supposed to have rules like no suites, no rentals, no satellite dishes, no clothes lines, no dirt/gravel driveways, no travel trailers parked in driveways, no fences forward of front of house, no wood burning fireplaces etc, but guess what, none of the rules are followed or enforced, which shows it's not just Mexico that has problems.


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## ojosazules11

cowichangang said:


> If you can, or are willing , Can you elaborate why its not perfect, ie: problems you have encountered since becoming an owner of a condo in PV, and whether they have been rectified, if so, how easy it was. How many units in your complex, Is your condo complex primarily lived in by expats, Mexicans, holiday renters, are all/most units lived in all year round etc. My sister lives in a subdivision of about 30 houses here in Duncan BC that was supposed to have rules like no suites, no rentals, no satellite dishes, no clothes lines, no dirt/gravel driveways, no travel trailers parked in driveways, no fences forward of front of house, no wood burning fireplaces etc, but guess what, none of the rules are followed or enforced, which shows it's not just Mexico that has problems.


Wow! With all those "no's" it sounds like that would be a dreadful place to live, for me personally. Give me a colourful, noisy, crazy quilt Mexican neighbourhood any day! 🌺🌴🐖🐈🐓🐎🐐🐉🐞

To each their own...


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## RVGRINGO

cowichangang said:


> If you can, or are willing , Can you elaborate why its not perfect, ie: problems you have encountered since becoming an owner of a condo in PV, and whether they have been rectified, if so, how easy it was. How many units in your complex, Is your condo complex primarily lived in by expats, Mexicans, holiday renters, are all/most units lived in all year round etc. My sister lives in a subdivision of about 30 houses here in Duncan BC that was supposed to have rules like no suites, no rentals, no satellite dishes, no clothes lines, no dirt/gravel driveways, no travel trailers parked in driveways, no fences forward of front of house, no wood burning fireplaces etc, but guess what, none of the rules are followed or enforced, which shows it's not just Mexico that has problems.


That sounds like prison. Are residents allowed to fart?


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## kcowan

cowichangang said:


> If you can, or are willing , Can you elaborate why its not perfect, ie: problems you have encountered since becoming an owner of a condo in PV, and whether they have been rectified, if so, how easy it was. How many units in your complex, Is your condo complex primarily lived in by expats, Mexicans, holiday renters, are all/most units lived in all year round etc. ..


Sure.

It is an 8 storey building with 6 owners. We are the only ****** owners. The HOA is informal. We meet when there is a problem - all the owners met at our place last year. There is no reserve. There are no common services other than maintaining common areas. We pay $200/mo. including propane on average. Aside from us, there is a Parisian, an Italian and the rest are Mexican. All units are occupied year round, although the Italian lives in Guadalajara and uses it for monthly trips and us who occupy for only 6 months. There are pets allowed and rentals are OK.

Major problems need an owners meeting which is why we had one last year. It was a problem with the sewage connection to the street and needed 5000 pesos each as a special assessment. The building was constructed in 1992 so some maintenance is to be expected. We have no employees.

As I mentioned, we shopped around extensively before buying. We avoided the ****** complexes and also the absentee Mexican complexes owing to higher HOA costs. (Some of the older ones have fees of $750/mo. and so the prices have crashed.:crazy


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## kcowan

We live in a small colonia called Alta Vista. It is just up the mountain (131 steps) from the downtown area. Because the residents are all full time except us, there is no problem attending to problems with the building (other than the natural reluctance of our neighbours to spend money on anything). It is immediately north of The Vista Grill and half a block east of the new development by the owners of Sayan in lower Amapas.

The Parisian resident is proactive in getting things attended to. Cleaning up the garbage bin was one of her recent projects (it is at the end of the street and many residents from above (500 steps) dump stuff there without regard for its appearance) on their way downtown.

I would say that our building is not suited to the usual holiday rentals. We did have tenants there in the first year for 10 weeks without problems, but because there is no infrastructure, it is not suited to English speakers. Our tenant used Google Translate to communicate with our maid who speaks no English. But they were anxious to try the true Mexican neighborhood. Now they rent in an older colonial condo right on Los Muertos Beach.

Like I said, there is no substitute for trying out any place that you are considering. If you want a building that allows rentals, try renting there for 6 months and experience it. If it does not measure up, try another place until you find one that suits you. Just recognize that the experience will be a function of the current HOA and that can change overnight. And such extra expense will be well worth it for your piece of mind. There is nothing worse than buying into a place that does not meet your desires.

And all the stories relayed by Longford and Hound Dog are true. And I could relay similar stories before they reported (all second hand). Caveat Emptor applies in spades. Recognize that we had the benefit of vacationing in PV for 30 years before buying, and we had been retired for 5 years and rented in various locations before buying.

(Manana means not today. It does NOT mean tomorrow when discussing commitments.)


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## RTL44

kcowan said:


> there is no substitute for trying out any place that you are considering. If you want a building that allows rentals, try renting there for 6 months and experience it. If it does not measure up, try another place until you find one that suits you. Just recognize that the experience will be a function of the current HOA and that can change overnight. And such extra expense will be well worth it for your piece of mind. There is nothing worse than buying into a place that does not meet your desires.
> 
> And all the stories relayed by Longford and Hound Dog are true. And I could relay similar stories before they reported (all second hand). Caveat Emptor applies in spades. Recognize that we had the benefit of vacationing in PV for 30 years before buying, and we had been retired for 5 years and rented in various locations before buying.


Brilliant. :hail:


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## AlanMexicali

Why not get lucky and stay away from tourist beach zones and move to a nice city in the high plateau where these cities are not geared to NOBers at all and do not have any problems with condos at all. Here in San Luis Potosi "privadas" and "departamentos" [condo departments] inside Mexico 100% Mexican owned do not have HOAs and the developer maintains, guards [security and security guards etc.], and employs the people to do so and you pay a yearly fee for this and the developers have rules that are not strict in most cases. You have to consider in a "privada" you actually usually own your lot and the developer owns the walls, entrances, streets, and common areas. There might be no real comparison unless the condo or gated guarded community is set up in popular beach areas or other areas where there is a heavy concentration of US or Canadian investors which probably are the developers or Mexican investors who know the HOA system sells condos or houses or lots in "privadas" to foreigners and Mexicans alike. This system might also be catching on in non tourist areas but haven´t any information.


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## Isla Verde

A question from someone who knows nothing about condos, north or south of the border: what is an HOA???


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## RVGRINGO

A group of owners in a condominium or development with common grounds and/or recreational facilities, clubhouse, etc. The ones who have time, resources and a self-identified sense of superior intellect will form a Home Owners Association, a group with power to control what you may or may not do with your own property. Worse yet, they can require that which you must do and often use that power to force those who resist them into bankruptcy and out of the neighborhood. You might, for example, own a $250,000 home, but not be allowed to park your $300,000 Motorhome in your own super wide driveway; even to load it up for an extended vacation. HOAs have monthly fees which may exceed what you now pay for rent in your apartment.


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## lagoloo

Isla Verde said:


> A question from someone who knows nothing about condos, north or south of the border: what is an HOA???


It's the abbreviation for "Home Owners Association".

If they leave their weapons by the door when they have a meeting, problems can be solved and life goes on. If they don't, they can be comprised of some of the nastiest control freaks and divas on Planet Earth. Tempests in teapots abound.
Personally, I have experienced one, in the states, and that was enough.:frusty:


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## ojosazules11

Home Owners Association. Whoops - I guess I was writing my post as RV and Lagoloo were posting theirs. Feel free to delete this post, Isla, as a duplicate it has NAV (no added value). 😄


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## kcowan

lagoloo said:


> It's the abbreviation for "Home Owners Association".


Although I use the term in Mexico, it is an American term. In Canada, condos are referred to as strata-titled because you are buying the rights to a section of air (strata), and they are called the Strata Council, or also the Condo Association.

They are fraught with all the same troubles except that there are plenty of regulations to follow. But deciding against pets or RVs are common. Deciding against children is illegal but somehow there are adults-only buildings in town.:frusty:


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## Isla Verde

ojosazules11 said:


> Home Owners Association. Whoops - I guess I was writing my post as RV and Lagoloo were posting theirs. Feel free to delete this post, Isla, as a duplicate it has NAV (no added value). 😄


Your comments are always welcome, ojosazules, duplicates or not!


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## Corri

lagoloo said:


> It's the abbreviation for "Home Owners Association".
> 
> If they leave their weapons by the door when they have a meeting, problems can be solved and life goes on. If they don't, they can be comprised of some of the nastiest control freaks and divas on Planet Earth. Tempests in teapots abound.
> Personally, I have experienced one, in the states, and that was enough.:frusty:


 Well, well. Sorry, no weapons to leave by the door in most of Mexico.
However, human nature being what it is everywhere, the nasties, control f´s, etc. are also to be found wherever condos exist. Guns in the states? No, can´t believe that.


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## Corri

kcowan said:


> Although I use the term in Mexico, it is an American term. In Canada, condos are referred to as strata-titled because you are buying the rights to a section of air (strata), and they are called the Strata Council, or also the Condo Association.
> 
> They are fraught with all the same troubles except that there are plenty of regulations to follow. But deciding against pets or RVs are common. Deciding against children is illegal but somehow there are adults-only buildings in town.:frusty:


Regulations? What are those? Are they those things that nobody cares about much less abide bye? I guess regs are only as good as the enforcement. But that is in everything. What ever happened to ¨law¨ ¨enforcement¨ anyway?


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## Corri

iamkim said:


> NOTE! I was typing when you submitted your last post, so they overlapped, which is why it might seem I hadn't read it, because I hadn't.
> We are also considering PV (and maybe NV) for retirement late 2015, but right now its a toss up between PV and Mazatlan, not sure if it's year round as your profile also says Vancouver, but being that you live there, or at least own in PV, I was wondering if there are any area's you would suggest we stay away from if buying a condo to live in year round, or, without giving your address, maybe what building/complex, or street, area etc you live, and how you like it or things you don't like that you can't change. Does your building for example allow holiday rentals, and if so, does that create a problem, are you in a mostly tourist or residential or commercial area, is your building maintained as it should be? So many naysayer's on here regarding condo ownership, but I know its a generalization and not as bad overall as some make it out to be. Gracias


Check out living on the river in downtown Colima which is half way to Guadalajara and the beach. It is a beautiful city with many amenities and services. It is the one city expats from PV and Lake Chapala are discovering and moving to. You don´t need the expense of a car as the taxi service is excellent and cheap. Plus, really good entertainment abounds around the university.


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## Longford

RVGRINGO said:


> A group of owners in a condominium or development with common grounds and/or recreational facilities, clubhouse, etc. The ones who have time, resources and a self-identified sense of superior intellect will form a Home Owners Association, a group with power to control what you may or may not do with your own property. Worse yet, they can require that which you must do and often use that power to force those who resist them into bankruptcy and out of the neighborhood. You might, for example, own a $250,000 home, but not be allowed to park your $300,000 Motorhome in your own super wide driveway; even to load it up for an extended vacation. HOAs have monthly fees which may exceed what you now pay for rent in your apartment.


It's an apples-to-oranges exercise when comparing Condo associations in the USA with those in Mexico. My observations have been that there is little resemblence between the two.

Obviously, you've had bad experiences as a owner/member of a condominium association in the USA or Mexico. But I think your experiences and opinions are probably in the minority of owners overall. 

From my experiences as a condominium owner in the USA:

Condo associations are typically pre-ordained in legal documents once the ground is broken for a new project or when a building is converted by a developer from apartments to condominiums/co-ops. A minority of owners cannot establish an association and dictate rules/regulations/assessments without the support of the majority. Persons who buy a condo or townhome where there is an association know, up-front, what the situation is, what the rules are (at that point), etc. There is no reason for a later surprise - unless the buyer didn't pay attention when they made the purchase.

All apartment/townhome owners are members in the associations, vote for persons to represent them on the board of directors, have the right to attend association board of directors meetings, be involved in rulemaking and a majority vote of owners can overturn any rule/regulation or budget and the owners have a say in the level of assessments and the hiring of the management of the building or the community. 

My experience as a condominium owner and one who has been very active in condominium associations has been that people who whine about condo associations are compulsive life-spanning whiners who almost always constitute a very small minority of condo/townhome owners. Many people are too individualistic to live in a cooperative, close-knit community and for them condo living isn't a good choice. But I'll suggest that the majority of people living in condominiums are satisfied with their situations and their homeowner/condo associations.

From my experiences as an observer of condominium associations in Mexico:

I don't know or understand the law governing condos. I haven't met a condo owner in Mexico who does, either.

I know that in some parts of the country associations have prohibited foreigners from serving on the boards of directors and from participating beyond paying assessments. Condo associations in the D.F. I'm familiar with have been somewhat better managed than building associations in Acapulco and Veracruz. 

Vacation-area condo associations where there are 'snowbird' or holiday-only owner visits have seemed to be most problematic with capital reserves being under-funded, assessments not being paid on time, repairs deferred, poor or dishonest management agents and an attitude that says "Let the ****** pay the fees, but not us (Mexicans)". Mid to lower price range buidlings seem to have the most problems. There is often lax or no enforcement of rules.

But I know we have seen comments on this forum from foreigners who own condominiums in Mexico who report good situations with their condos. The challenge for the expat, and someone unfamiliar with a community generally and a condominium building specifically, is learning the 'lay of the land' before making the purchase. That's another reason why it's best to rent first ... do some investigating during the first year or two ...then buy something. 

An organization is only as strong as its members. That holds true for condominium associations.


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## kcowan

In PV, your Visa must specify that you can work to be a member of the condo board. So a retirement Visa is not adequate. This aggravates the whining.


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## Longford

kcowan said:


> In PV, your Visa must specify that you can work to be a member of the condo board. So a retirement Visa is not adequate. This aggravates the whining.


Since being a volunteer member of a condo board entails no compensation, I'm wondering: Whose requirement it is in PV that an owner must have the work endorsement/permissioin in order to serve? I doubt it's a legality, but, instead, something written into the corporate/organizational documents of the building/association. Do you know? But one need not be on the board of directors to have a say in what goes on.


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## Jolga

We are owners of a condo in the El Centro area of Mazatlan on the malecon with ocean views. The building itself is a 50-unit boutique style dual building setup. The snowbird (sunny side of the building) has smaller units while the newer side in the shade, is perfect for year-round residents who prefer a homy feel rather than a more temporary (hotel style) apartment.

As you know for the first few years the developers keep condo fees artificially low in order to attract buyers. In ours they even went so far as to have no contingency fund:eek2: Now almost all the units have been sold so the first thing our condo committee did was to vote out the former administrators ( put in by the developers) and bring in a Professional Mexican Condo administration firm that specializes in ****** buildings. They already have administer hundreds of units here and their reputation is excellent.

Of course good things have a price tag, and many owners, myself included, were wary of the price hike which they had to instigate in January when they took over. As I told my neighbours if we are going to pay higher fees we have to see tangible positive changes and a definite return on our investment. If not, then at the next meeting then we will confront them and possibly even vote them out. Well, I must say that that it looks like they have earned our business for many more years to come. Our contingency fund is full and can handle even the most dire emergencies now. Payment delinquencies are almost nil. We now have an admin office office right in the building. They organized a cleanup and landscaping of the mountainside jungle behind the building. They reduced the water flow from the mountain during Tropical Storms, to tolerable levels. They tightened up the swimming pool rules (this was an issue with the short term rentals) They intervened (with official legal letters) when our neighbours broke the noise laws ( A loud, obnoxious, obscene clown show has been shut down). Our local building rep is an intelligent, bilingual, efficient young lady with top tier customer service skills. They started a monthly newsletter to keep us all informed and up to date. All exterior contractors must register with our guard and receive passes which they wear before they can enter the building. They had an intercom system which never worked correctly repaired and they installed new ones for those who didn't have an intercom.

I could go on and on but you get the picture. Living here has always been the best thing this side of heaven but now it's even better.:bathbaby:

I think it boils down to doing your homework. Talk with your future neighbours and get the real story from them. That's what we did. Nothing is perfect of course, but if they are generally happy and would recommend the building and if they could go back in time they would buy there again, then you can probably get serious about that one.


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## RVGRINGO

By Retirement Visa, I assume that you intended to say Residente Temporal Visa, which can include working permission from INM for a specific position. It will, however, preclude driving a non-mexican plated vehicle. A Tourist Permit will not allow any type of work. A Residente Permanente Visa permits working, but INM must be notified.


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## Corri

Interesting example of following the rules in today´s world.
EXPATFORUM.COM-RULES:
¨Do not use the forum as a place for advertising¨ !

Interesting how that worked. Not!

The forum has become exposed lately to so much advertising that I thought maybe it might be a HOA, ha, ha.


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## Isla Verde

Corri said:


> Interesting example of following the rules in today´s world.
> EXPATFORUM.COM-RULES:
> ¨Do not use the forum as a place for advertising¨ !
> 
> Interesting how that worked. Not!
> 
> The forum has become exposed lately to so much advertising that I thought maybe it might be a HOA, ha, ha.


*Forum Rule #5*: Please don’t discuss moderator or admin actions in the forums. Use the PM facility to contact moderators. 

If you have any specific complaints about the way that Tundra Green and I moderate this forum, please send one or both of us PMs to explain why you're not happy with our job performance, keeping in mind that we (and all the moderators on the Expat Forum) are volunteers. Thanks for your cooperation.


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