# Remote working: non-lucrative vs digital nomad visas (latest situation?)



## Larches (Oct 16, 2021)

Hello all. My wife's job was recently made 'remote' on an official basis, after more than a year of working from home (no prizes for guessing why). This is good news for us, as we had wanted to move to a new area anyway (I am currently not in paid work for various reasons).

We _were _thinking in terms of a move within the UK, but have been getting increasingly frustrated and alarmed at the state of things here (again, for various reasons) and are beginning to wonder if we should take the chance to try living abroad. We have long harboured a dream of living in Spain (ever since we spent a year studying there over a decade ago) but the idea hasn't really fitted with life as it has turned out thus far. Maybe that is about to change, although it's pretty bad timing - just after Brexit - and distance from family (ageing parents especially) remains a real sticking point. So I'm just doing a little digging now to see whether this is an idea we should take seriously, or whether we should dismiss it as a bit crazy and stick to our original plan (which was/is quite advanced... i.e. agreed on location, schools etc and getting the house ready to sell).

So the first question would seem to be - on what basis could we move to Spain such that my wife can continue working remotely for a UK-based organisation? I have seen conflicting information online about the Non-Lucrative Visa, with some articles suggesting it is compatible with remote working as long as the income is not from within Spain, but other articles suggest that these NLVs are often declined by consulates if you express an intention to do paid work of any sort. They seem to be designed to allow people who have the means to reside in Spain without needing to work. In our case, I think we could meet the financial requirements of the NLV, but there's no way we would go down this route if my wife was (legally) unable to continue working. So things seem clear as mud (our first little taste of the infamous bureaucracy?) and I'm wondering if anyone on here might be able to share some recent knowledge / experience on this issue.

Meanwhile, I gather a new 'Digital Nomad Visa' is in the offing in Spain, which would specifically permit remote working for foreign organisations, but only for up to a year. So in this case, various questions arise... what is the likely path after the first year if you anticipate wanting to remain in the country, still working remotely on the same basis, for the foreseeable future? Would this visa cover (non-working) family members? Presumably if I then wanted to work on a similar basis, I would require my own separate DN visa? Would I have the option of applying for a work permit to seek employment within Spain? And does anyone know how far along the line these plans are, or when they might be expected to come into effect (if that's not too naive a question, given what we know about the making of new legislation!)?

If anyone can offer advice or nudge me in the right general direction, that would be much appreciated.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

If you are still a working family with children I dont advise moving to Spain simply because you are fed up with the UK. Surviving in Spain with limited work options ( remote working Visa is not in existence and there is no way you can assume it's a certainty) plus disadvantages of not having the language and being separated from relatives and friends is a recipe for disaster. It will place you under a lot of stress at a point in your life where you perhaps need your energies to be focussed on your family. I know of few young British families that have remained in Spain. Many return after the initial thrill subsides. As children become teenagers unless they and their parents are well integrated into Spanish they often become stuck in small English bubbles struggling with school and eventually dropping out. I have seen it happen so many times. The few who survive seem to all have some kind of existing Spanish family connection which keeps them anchored. Plus remember your perception of the UK is most likely formed through through media which often dwells on the negative rather than the positive. The UK is and always will remain fairly dynamic and progressive country irrespective of political dimensions. Spain struggles in many ways to match the UK in these areas. For example, Spain accepts levels of graduate unemployment which would be considered a national employment disaster if it was the case in the UK. Spain also has a very unstable political system at present which is affecting it's ability to adapt quickly to the emerging technological world and for many Spanish this could impoverish the country even more in the future.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Larches said:


> Hello all. My wife's job was recently made 'remote' on an official basis, after more than a year of working from home (no prizes for guessing why). This is good news for us, as we had wanted to move to a new area anyway (I am currently not in paid work for various reasons).
> 
> We _were _thinking in terms of a move within the UK, but have been getting increasingly frustrated and alarmed at the state of things here (again, for various reasons) and are beginning to wonder if we should take the chance to try living abroad. We have long harboured a dream of living in Spain (ever since we spent a year studying there over a decade ago) but the idea hasn't really fitted with life as it has turned out thus far. Maybe that is about to change, although it's pretty bad timing - just after Brexit - and distance from family (ageing parents especially) remains a real sticking point. So I'm just doing a little digging now to see whether this is an idea we should take seriously, or whether we should dismiss it as a bit crazy and stick to our original plan (which was/is quite advanced... i.e. agreed on location, schools etc and getting the house ready to sell).
> 
> ...


This is the current situation - we'll update as more info becomes available









Digital nomad visa for Spain?


https://www.immigrationspain.es/en/visa-for-digital-nomads/?fbclid=IwAR3vdP1rM11eLvF7sTr6qLtgcgsagjHD07kzO_F3eT2LIzLSRMOAUlGg1TY We have really good news! In a very short time, we will have a new law for startups in Spain, and with it, important changes within the immigration law. With this...




www.expatforum.com


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## Larches (Oct 16, 2021)

kaipa said:


> If you are still a working family with children I dont advise moving to Spain simply because you are fed up with the UK. Surviving in Spain with limited work options ( remote working Visa is not in existence and there is no way you can assume it's a certainty) plus disadvantages of not having the language and being separated from relatives and friends is a recipe for disaster. It will place you under a lot of stress at a point in your life where you perhaps need your energies to be focussed on your family. I know of few young British families that have remained in Spain. Many return after the initial thrill subsides. As children become teenagers unless they and their parents are well integrated into Spanish they often become stuck in small English bubbles struggling with school and eventually dropping out. I have seen it happen so many times. The few who survive seem to all have some kind of existing Spanish family connection which keeps them anchored. Plus remember your perception of the UK is most likely formed through through media which often dwells on the negative rather than the positive. The UK is and always will remain fairly dynamic and progressive country irrespective of political dimensions. Spain struggles in many ways to match the UK in these areas. For example, Spain accepts levels of graduate unemployment which would be considered a national employment disaster if it was the case in the UK. Spain also has a very unstable political system at present which is affecting it's ability to adapt quickly to the emerging technological world and for many Spanish this could impoverish the country even more in the future.


Hello @kaipa, thank you for your reply. You make some fair points, although there are a few things that I should probably have made clearer in my initial post. The motive for living in Spain would not be purely because we're fed up with the UK, but because we loved the time we spent living in Spain and our many visits since, from north to south and east to west, fascinated by the many different regional identities; what we would have in mind is not living in some sort of informal British enclave on the south coast, as that's not really our scene - we would be looking to integrate from the outset, which I know is easier said than done, but not impossible. In terms of 'not having the language', admittedly our Castilian is a bit rusty in parts, but tends to come back quickly the more we use it. We know very little of the other Spanish languages though (just a small smattering of Catalan), so that could be something to consider in terms of choosing a location.

As to our perception of the UK, it is hard not to be unnerved when even just the basic infrastructure (that we've been lucky enough to take for granted until recently) is struggling to cope - notably the food supply chain and logistics in general, energy supply, fuel supply and of course health and social care. This is not to say that other countries are not experiencing similar problems or that the UK doesn't still have plenty to recommend it, but we do seem to have a unique combination of pressures with the pandemic and Brexit among other challenges, which are surely going to take a long while to address. There are various factors that trouble us considerably about the way things are and the direction they're going in, but I don't think this is the right place to get into all of that. Your warnings about Spain are very pertinent in that we must avoid falling into the 'grass is greener' trap, and I know things have been unstable politically (almost the opposite of our political challenges here!) and that it has its own mix of ongoing economic and societal issues as anywhere does, so we certainly would want to be very careful to make any such move with our eyes fully open. Thanks again for taking the time to comment.


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## James34 (Aug 29, 2021)

Larches said:


> Hello @kaipa, thank you for your reply. You make some fair points, although there are a few things that I should probably have made clearer in my initial post. The motive for living in Spain would not be purely because we're fed up with the UK, but because we loved the time we spent living in Spain and our many visits since, from north to south and east to west, fascinated by the many different regional identities; what we would have in mind is not living in some sort of informal British enclave on the south coast, as that's not really our scene - we would be looking to integrate from the outset, which I know is easier said than done, but not impossible. In terms of 'not having the language', admittedly our Castilian is a bit rusty in parts, but tends to come back quickly the more we use it. We know very little of the other Spanish languages though (just a small smattering of Catalan), so that could be something to consider in terms of choosing a location.
> 
> As to our perception of the UK, it is hard not to be unnerved when even just the basic infrastructure (that we've been lucky enough to take for granted until recently) is struggling to cope - notably the food supply chain and logistics in general, energy supply, fuel supply and of course health and social care. This is not to say that other countries are not experiencing similar problems or that the UK doesn't still have plenty to recommend it, but we do seem to have a unique combination of pressures with the pandemic and Brexit among other challenges, which are surely going to take a long while to address. There are various factors that trouble us considerably about the way things are and the direction they're going in, but I don't think this is the right place to get into all of that. Your warnings about Spain are very pertinent in that we must avoid falling into the 'grass is greener' trap, and I know things have been unstable politically (almost the opposite of our political challenges here!) and that it has its own mix of ongoing economic and societal issues as anywhere does, so we certainly would want to be very careful to make any such move with our eyes fully open. Thanks again for taking the time to comment.


Hey Larches. I would recommend some of the groups on social media, I've never been a big Facebook user, but you will find you will be able to speak to a much wider audience and hopefully those who have recent experience. We are also planning to move to Spain, but are probably further down the road with our planning. The key (and I may be explaining the obvious) is to try and find people who have directly gone through the moving process in the last year. Otherwise you are just capturing lots of opinions such as the above, as opposed to people's direct lived experience of directly going through the same process and doing very recently. I for example have found that even attempting to get a visit to look at a home to rent can be problematic, more so than it may be in the UK and my Spanish is fairly proficient nowadays and I have sufficient funds available. 

The visa situation does seem to be in a bit of a state of flux and again you will find conflicting views on where everything stands, although it seems fairly certain that the new visa proposed to capture the demand for remote working is still in development and could be some time yet before it is ratified, if it is ratified. I would recommend contacting your local consulate to try and discuss the options you have. With regards Work Permits to work locally, Spain does want to prioritise locals (and quite rightly so) so regards to work done by other family members if your wife is employed remotely it may be difficult, certainly for the 1st year and possibly longer. It is certainly a country that if you speak to Spaniards is politically 'complicated' having so many different forms of government that can work against each other. But keep working through everything one stage at a time and good luck, I would say that saving up as much money in the meantime is important, I have spoken to people directly who have had success with their visa applications which have been aided by the funds they have in the bank. As you point out, Spain has it's problems but we now flag behind Spain and the rest of Western Europe with our health service, I can certainly say the road systems are far better in Spain and more efficient and the food and sun is better to top it off. But you know why you want to move better than anybody else. Good luck.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

James34 said:


> Hey Larches. I would recommend some of the groups on social media, I've never been a big Facebook user, but you will find you will be able to speak to a much wider audience and hopefully those who have recent experience. We are also planning to move to Spain, but are probably further down the road with our planning. The key (and I may be explaining the obvious) is to try and find people who have directly gone through the moving process in the last year. Otherwise you are just capturing lots of opinions such as the above, as opposed to people's direct lived experience of directly going through the same process and doing very recently. I for example have found that even attempting to get a visit to look at a home to rent can be problematic, more so than it may be in the UK and my Spanish is fairly proficient nowadays and I have sufficient funds available.
> 
> The visa situation does seem to be in a bit of a state of flux and again you will find conflicting views on where everything stands, although it seems fairly certain that the new visa proposed to capture the demand for remote working is still in development and could be some time yet before it is ratified, if it is ratified. I would recommend contacting your local consulate to try and discuss the options you have. With regards Work Permits to work locally, Spain does want to prioritise locals (and quite rightly so) so regards to work done by other family members if your wife is employed remotely it may be difficult, certainly for the 1st year and possibly longer. It is certainly a country that if you speak to Spaniards is politically 'complicated' having so many different forms of government that can work against each other. But keep working through everything one stage at a time and good luck, I would say that saving up as much money in the meantime is important, I have spoken to people directly who have had success with their visa applications which have been aided by the funds they have in the bank. As you point out, Spain has it's problems but we now flag behind Spain and the rest of Western Europe with our health service, I can certainly say the road systems are far better in Spain and more efficient and the food and sun is better to top it off. But you know why you want to move better than anybody else. Good luck.


It isn't that Spain wants to prioritise locals per se, it's that as part of the work visa application process the company has to prove that no EU citizen is available to take the position. Not just Spanish/local - but any citizen from the entire EU.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I think it is important not to think that the remote work Visa is a near definite. We all remember the forore over the Universal Healthcare care act which was totally misconstrued by the British expat community. I imagine any changes to visas etc are not a huge priority and exist alongside a whole plethora of government initiatives and potential law changes. It might happen it might not. You mustn't plan around it. Take the current law as the situation you need to deal with and work with that.


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## Larches (Oct 16, 2021)

Thanks everyone for your input, plenty to mull over there, and definitely some useful tips for next steps.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

The digital nomad visa appears to be closer to becoming a reality

Spain plans ‘digital nomad’ visa scheme to attract remote workers | Spain | The Guardian


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Under those terms can't see many qualifying..


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

MataMata said:


> Under those terms can't see many qualifying..


Why do you say that?

Seems pretty easy, the OP's wife would seem to qualify.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

Basically it is for those remote workers who: can earn 24.000 euros per annum, derive 20 % of that from a Spanish registered clients, have had a contract or been self employed with the business for at least a year. If you can tick your boxes you are okay. What wont work is : setting up yourself as automino to do things like teach online unless you have already done that outside of Spain for a year and earned 24 grand !! ( unlikely) or anything that hasn't been active for a year before applying. Working for a uk company remotely only works if around 5.800 euros is from a spanish client!!


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

Thats not how I read it at all.

24,000€ a year does seem to be the rough threshold, but in reality it will probably be a figure derived from the IPREM.
20% income from within Spain is not a requirement, it is the upper limit. If all your earnings come from abroad you will comply.
You don't have to have worked outside your country for 1 year, you have to have worked remotely for 1 year, quite a difference.

It is obvioulsy designed for established employees of overseas firms already working from home, or self employed people who already have an establñished customer base but who can work from anywhere.
It doesn't seem to work for people who are already in Spain and who would want to start working for a foreign company remotely however.


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