# Moving to Spain? Good or Bad idea? Jobs etc!



## lauren89

Hiya, I'm new here so apologies in advance if I'm asking questions that have been asked a million times before..and sorry for asking so much!!

My boyfriend (35) and I (22) really want to move to Spain, we are both fed up of pretty much everything in the UK, and its something we've spoken about ever since we got together.

Firstly we obviously need to save as much as we can before we move out there, I have read that you should take enough to live off for 6 months, I would rather take enough for a year, just incase! My boyfriend speaks a little spanish and picks it up very easily as he did when we went on holiday to lanzarote last year but I..well just don't! Im sure I could if I put my mind to it, just like anything! 

What sort of area is best to go, obviously the busier the better as it should hopefully be easier to get a job? Is a Canary Island a daft idea? Would we be better in mainland Spain? 

My boyfriend was thinking about doing a TEFL course and teaching english out there, are those sort of jobs easy to come by? Or not so much? He's not bothered about doing that straight away, working in a bar etc would appeal to him just as much as teaching.

We obviously just want to rent somewhere out there for 6 months initially, hopefully with bills included just so it makes it slightly easier. But what other things do you need to pay? Is there anything that you pay there that you dont have to in the UK? Im just used to paying all your normal household bills. How much are things like council tax, elec, water in Spain? (depends on how much you use i know!  ) just incase where we rent doesnt have bills included.

Lauren  x


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## lauren89

Oh, I forgot to say.....we think of all the postives about moving to Spain, and read alot on the internet, but also find alot of negatives about it. So in peoples opinion who have been there and done it all and are either still out there or back in the UK, is it a good or bad idea...and for what reasons? .... That is my last question, for now, I promise!!  x


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## Alcalaina

Hi Lauren and welcome to the forum!

The unemployment situation is far worse in Spain than anywhere else in Europe, 45% of people 25 are out of work, so it is very unlikely that you´ll manage to get find work here. It's usually a case of who you know. 

There is some work for English teachers - check out this thread. http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...iving-spain/26226-teaching-english-spain.html

The Canaries have a year-round tourist season and a healthier economy than the mainland, so you might be lucky to pick up some casual work there. But there is a lot of competition so the hours are long, the wages low, and there is no job security or unemployment/housing benefit if you are suddenly sacked. 

Depending where you are, rents are generally cheaper than the UK (except in the holiday season). Areas away from the coast are cheaper of course, but you will have even less chance of finding work.

Electricity is about the same, water is cheaper. You are unlikely to have to pay council tax equivalent (IBI) if you rent, but it is much lower here. Eating and drinking depends on your lifestyle; you can live very cheaply but it's not much fun living on cheap wine and lentils. As a rule of thumb, the cost of living is about the same as the UK especially when the exchange rate favours the euro (as it does now).

So come over and bring as much cash as you can scrape together, but don't burn your bridges.


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## MacRov

My family and I are about to move out to Costa Calida in 2 weeks time but I wouldn't even entertain the move if I didn't have a job, read through all the threads on here and you'll see work is very hard to come by (even for the locals).
Probably best to decide on an area then visit and see what the work situation is like there before making the final plunge.
Although you say you're saving enough to get by for a year so might get some work before the cash starts to run out.


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## lauren89

Thanks for your replies. I guess the best bet is just to keep saving and hopefully when we decide to do it and have saved up more than enough things may be slightly better! The more we save the longer we can stay...even if we dont manage 2 get jobs I just see it as if you don't try you will never know. 

Im pleased you said the canaries have a healthier economy as that was our preferred choice! We are off to Lanzarote at the beginning of September for our holiday... I'm sure when we get there it will make us want to do this even more than it did last time!

The places to rent I have been looking at I'm just amazed by, the rent where I live in the uk seems crazy compared to prices in Spain! ... I'm sure council tax is alot less, I currently pay £130 a month, just for a 2 bedroom flat!!  

If i wanted to have an internet shop, just on eBay while out there is there anything I have to declare or not?

I would deffinately be coming out there once we have decided on an area, to look for work in the hope of finding some sort of job and looking at places to rent...I'm not that brave (or maybe stupid) to just come out with no plans.

Thanks again 
Lauren


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## djfwells

lauren89 said:


> If i wanted to have an internet shop, just on eBay while out there is there anything I have to declare or not?


Putting aside the issue of whether what you propose to do is morally / legally right or wrong, it comes down to this : What are the chances of you being caught by the authorities for doing this ? Answer : Slim.

Firstly, if you are selling an item that you have purchased without a VAT / IVA number and are selling without charging VAT / IVA and not raisng an invoice, chances are that nobody will notice.

Secondly, If you insist on payment through Paypal, then being a US entity, they are under no obligation to provide any financial information to the UK or Spanish authorities.

Thirdly, many E bay traders do so through a PO Box address. Who says that this can't be in the UK while you live in Spain ?

Finally, and probably most importantly, the tax authorities in Spain have much, much bigger fish to fry at the moment : Black Money Employees, Illegal workers, undeclared Holiday rental income etc... making a few quid from selling a handful of CD's online is likely to be way down on their list of priorities


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## 90199

Hello Lauren,

I live in the Canary Islands, El Hierro. It has been reported in the local news media for the last two nights, that unemployment last month fell by 14,000. The tourist trade has had a dramatic increase compared with the previous years figures, staff are being re employed and further staff recruited.

This has been the sixth consecutive month that unemployment has fallen and the economy has grown in the Canary Islands. We seem to be the only province in Spain that has positive growth.

Depending on what your profession is, perhaps you should pay a visit to either Tenerife or Gran Canaria, try the south of both islands you will be able to judge the situation for yourself. The larger Islands have more tourist than the rest, you might also consider Lanzarote.

Should you get lucky and find employment, then don't forget to visit us on the smaller islands, the link below viewed as a slide show will give you an insight,

Hepa


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## lauren89

Thanks djfwells, I didnt think of it like that. It would be items that I buy and don't pay VAT on, and yes it would be through paypal. So, thats a bit of good news  Thanks!

Thanks hepa, and yet another great bit of news....Canary Islands was where we really wanted to go like I said, but thought Mainland Spain would of been better for some reason.

We went to Lanzarote last year and loved it so are going again this year, I have also visited Gran Canaria before which was lovely. Not that i'd be moaning about moving to Lanzarote, Tenerife or Gran Canaria!! 

Also another question....very random, my boyfriend is currently doing his scuba diving course and is then going to follow on my doing other courses which I think then means he could be an assistant instructor. Does anybody know if these are very rare sorts of jobs or if theres a few to come by? (I know as with all jobs at the moment, theres not alot af anything!)

Thanks guys, I really appreciate your replies! .... Although it is just getting me more and more exicted!!  x


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## jojo

djfwells said:


> Putting aside the issue of whether what you propose to do is morally / legally right or wrong, it comes down to this : What are the chances of you being caught by the authorities for doing this ? Answer : Slim.
> 
> Firstly, if you are selling an item that you have purchased without a VAT / IVA number and are selling without charging VAT / IVA and not raisng an invoice, chances are that nobody will notice.
> 
> Secondly, If you insist on payment through Paypal, then being a US entity, they are under no obligation to provide any financial information to the UK or Spanish authorities.
> 
> Thirdly, many E bay traders do so through a PO Box address. Who says that this can't be in the UK while you live in Spain ?
> 
> Finally, and probably most importantly, the tax authorities in Spain have much, much bigger fish to fry at the moment : Black Money Employees, Illegal workers, undeclared Holiday rental income etc... making a few quid from selling a handful of CD's online is likely to be way down on their list of priorities


Its never a good idea to encourage people into thinking that they "wont get caught" I know lots of people in Spain who have been caught, its foolish in the UK when you understand the system, to think you can get away with anything in a foreign country, especially one like Spain when you dont even understand their language or rules is just plain stupid!

So no, if you're planning on tax evasion, then dont come and do it in Spain.

................. and there are plenty of lookie lookie men in Spain selling cds illegally already

Jo xxx


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## djfwells

jojo said:


> Its never a good idea to encourage people into thinking that they "wont get caught" I know lots of people in Spain who have been caught, its foolish in the UK when you understand the system, to think you can get away with anything in a foreign country, especially one like Spain when you dont even understand their language or rules!
> 
> So no, if you're planning on tax evasion, then dont come and do it in Spain.
> 
> ................. and there are plenty of lookie lookie men in Spain selling cds illegally already
> 
> Jo xxx


As I said in my post ' Putting aside the issue of whether what you propose to do is morally / legally right or wrong ' , nor am I doing any encouraging - merely pointing out a few facts.

As you so rightly say, there ARE positives to paying Social Security contribuitions to Spain, I never said that there wasn't. I was answering a question as honestly and truthfully as I could - it's not our job to be somebodies moral beacon.


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## jojo

djfwells said:


> As I said in my post ' Putting aside the issue of whether what you propose to do is morally / legally right or wrong ' , nor am I doing any encouraging - merely pointing out a few facts.
> 
> As you so rightly say, there ARE positives to paying Social Security contribuitions to Spain, I never said that there wasn't. I was answering a question as honestly and truthfully as I could - it's not our job to be somebodies moral beacon.


It is not our job to tell people that Spain probably wouldnt find out cos its got "bigger fish to fry" 

Unless you're prepared to guide, negotiate and pay the fines for the poster should she get caught then yes it is our job to tell people the correct way of doing things!

Now back on topic

Jo


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## jojo

Sorry Lauren, I wouldnt want anyone to get on the wrong side of the Spanish authorities. Anyway, your best bet is to come over to Spain or the Canaries and do some fact finding and see if living here is feasable and do some fact finding. I hear the Islands are weathering the recession a little better so maybe thats the place to head.

Just dont burn your UK bridges til you're sure


Jo xxx


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## sdamazo

Hello Lauren

Spain has many interesting things but unemployment here is high, about 25%. I moved about a year ago to the country and I'm moving out to Greece within a week because I'm really fedup with the way things are run here. I work for international agencies and would only come to Spain for fun not to live.

Good luck with your choice and I know that we can change reality when we want to but local government is not that interested in changing it for a better future.


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## jojo

sdamazo said:


> Hello Lauren
> 
> Spain has many interesting things but unemployment here is high, about 25%. I moved about a year ago to the country and I'm moving out to Greece within a week because I'm really fedup with the way things are run here. I work for international agencies and would only come to Spain for fun not to live.
> 
> Good luck with your choice and I know that we can change reality when we want to but local government is not that interested in changing it for a better future.


Interesting, I would have said that Greece has a few more problems than Spain, but maybe not, maybe theres more potential there???????

Jo xxx


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## sdamazo

Indeed. But, as I said, I don't depend on local market to work. I just don't want to live in this atmosphere here, rather negative.


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## lauren89

Wow, sorry I didnt mean to cause an arguement! Second thoughts I wouldn't be running it in Spain really, my parents have a business in the UK and I would run the shop online and my Mum would be parcelling them up in the UK etc. So surely theres nothing wrong with doing that? 

I know we need to come out and find out the things out there, which hopefully we will try and do a few things while on holiday in September. I hear so many good things and get so excited then hearing bad things brings me back to reality! 

Like I said earlier in 1 of my replies, I just feel that im young enough to try it and if it doesnt work we can come home easily enough, it's not like its a family im thinking of moving to spain, that would be a lot tougher decision. If we don't try we will never know!

x


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## lauren89

The atmosphere in spain is negative?! Surely it can't be worse than the UK?!?!?!? 

I know it sounds stupid but mine and my boyfriends heart is set on somewhere in Spain, even before we met it was both something we had dreamt of...so Spain just seems right...not so right if we can't find a job i know! haha!

x


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## jojo

lauren89 said:


> The atmosphere in spain is negative?! Surely it can't be worse than the UK?!?!?!?
> 
> I know it sounds stupid but mine and my boyfriends heart is set on somewhere in Spain, even before we met it was both something we had dreamt of...so Spain just seems right...not so right if we can't find a job i know! haha!
> 
> x


I think it depends where you go. Personally if you want a happy atmosphere then anywhere that has tourism and holiday makers is gonna feel fun! Spain and Greece are both in the "brown stuff" financially and I'm not sure which one has the happiest atmosphere overall!?

I agree, while you're young, foot loose and fancy free you have to try these things, so go for it, but take some precautions just in case !!!!! If you do find Spain too negative, then maybe try somewhere else?? A different region or even Greece ????

Jo xxx


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## sdamazo

Quite right, Lauren. Then you should follow your dream and you are young enough to go for it with your boyfriend. 
I'm also a taxpayer and can choose to live wherever I want. That is what makes things negative to me here.


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## lauren89

We would want to go to somewhere touristy anyway as we have more chance of finding jobs there, hopefully!

Precautions....money? Plenty of it? Will that do? lol 

How could Spain be negative every time I have ever been everybody always seems so happy, helpful and so laid back?!

x


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## lauren89

Okay...someone telling me I should follow my dream gives me the biggest burst of excitement ever!!  Thanks!!! x


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## Seb*

lauren89 said:


> How could Spain be negative every time I have ever been everybody always seems so happy, helpful and so laid back?!
> 
> x


But that was only on holiday surely! Life is not always relaxed, no matter where you live! And even in a touristy area (I am living in one), there is something called "every day life". Try the tourist areas in winter


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## lauren89

Well yes, obviously that was just on holiday. I wouldn't be asking all this if I was already living in Spain  ... But I was actually meaning the locals and people who are working. Im sure every day life in Spain is alot better than every day life in gloomy old England! ... Surely that depends what tousrist are you are in as to how busy it is in winter, as some1 said earlier that the canary islands are an all year round touristy place...?!

x


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## Alcalaina

lauren89 said:


> We would want to go to somewhere touristy anyway as we have more chance of finding jobs there, hopefully!
> 
> Precautions....money? Plenty of it? Will that do? lol
> 
> How could Spain be negative every time I have ever been everybody always seems so happy, helpful and so laid back?!
> 
> x


But it's easy to see a country as helpful and laid-back when you are on holiday, because everyone wants you to have a good time and come back next year. 
It's a rather different scenario when you are competing with them for jobs. 

Check out _Democracia Real Ya _- a mass uprising of the Spanish people protesting about all the corruption, unemployment and injustice. There's a good summary in English here: 2011 Spanish protests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not that I'm trying to put you off, but it's helpful to know what's going on behind the happy laid-back exterior!


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## 90199

I am not a scuba diver, however the ocean off the island where I live is apparently world famous, if you "Google" El Hierro Diving Centres, or in Spanish, Busceo El Hierro, you will get umpteen links.
Perhaps you should ask your question there,

Hepa


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## lauren89

I know people on holiday are bound to be relaxed etc, and people may be nice as they want you to come back, but atleast that happens. That doesnt happen in England, most people r just stressed and nasty to whoever it may be....and always in a rush to get everywhere and do everything!

Thanks for your reply about scuba aswell Hepa  x


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> Sorry Lauren, I wouldnt want anyone to get on the wrong side of the Spanish authorities. Anyway, your best bet is to come over to Spain or the Canaries and *do some fact finding* and see if living here is feasable and *do some fact finding*. I hear the Islands are weathering the recession a little better so maybe thats the place to head.
> 
> Just dont burn your UK bridges til you're sure
> 
> 
> Jo xxx


that'd be lots of fact finding then


you're right though - that's the only way to know for sure


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## lauren89

Gotta love fact finding ey....!!


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## xabiaxica

lauren89 said:


> Wow, sorry I didnt mean to cause an arguement! Second thoughts I wouldn't be running it in Spain really, my parents have a business in the UK and I would run the shop online and my Mum would be parcelling them up in the UK etc. So surely theres nothing wrong with doing that?
> 
> I know we need to come out and find out the things out there, which hopefully we will try and do a few things while on holiday in September. I hear so many good things and get so excited then hearing bad things brings me back to reality!
> 
> Like I said earlier in 1 of my replies, I just feel that im young enough to try it and if it doesnt work we can come home easily enough, it's not like its a family im thinking of moving to spain, that would be a lot tougher decision. If we don't try we will never know!
> 
> x


If you are physically living here then you are working here & therefore have to pay your taxes & NI here

no question - no ifs, buts or maybes - sorry...............


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## Alcalaina

lauren89 said:


> I know people on holiday are bound to be relaxed etc, and people may be nice as they want you to come back, but atleast that happens. That doesnt happen in England, most people r just stressed and nasty to whoever it may be....and always in a rush to get everywhere and do everything!
> 
> Thanks for your reply about scuba aswell Hepa  x


Sure - the Spanish people are one of its biggest assets, even more important than the weather in my book. So get cracking on those Spanish lessons and go for it! lane:


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## lauren89

So me listing an item on ebay and when it sells it is getting paid into my parents bank account and me being paid by somebody in england as working in Spain?

Im not trying to get out of paying it :S It was just a question as I'm new to this, my question was just what would I have to pay if it was me ebay shop which I was making money from, thats all?!

Sorry! ......


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## lauren89

All I can think of is when I went on holiday to Lanzarote last year was in 1 restuarant we went to quite a few times, we got talking to 1 of the waiters and he was saying he had been working every day for the past 2 weeks and had been starting early having siesta and then doing another shift until late but yet he was still so happy and chatty to everybody...(maybe not so happy on the inside) But like I said thats what annoys me about this country, people are just rude...atleast the Spanish do put on a front of happy and smiley! ... Just like I do at work! Why shouldnt everyone else?! Sorry...rant over!!


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## 90199

Some years ago whilst living in England, my youngest son( then 28 and unattached) posed the same question that Lauren is asking, should he go and live in the Canary Islands.

I asked him if he had his return fare and some spare cash, which he had. I suggested that he book a two week holiday in Gran Canaria and have a look around, this he did, I took him to the airport and away he went. He stayed for over 5 years working as a bar manager in the Hipperdrome bar Playa del Inglés Gran Canaria. He now runs a restaurant in the north of England.

He enjoyed the experience of living and working in a different country, his colleagues taught him Spanish in return he helped them with their English.

So Lauren, it can be done, a big decision, but it is one that only you can make,

Hepa


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## lauren89

Thanks Hepa  I love postive posts!! I have my mind made up...I have nothing to lose, so why not?! I just need 2 get saving, and attempt 2 learn spanish...could be interesting?! Im guessing shouting at a barman when ur asking for a drink doesnt help then?! Like all chavvy brits think....!! HAHAA!!! x


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## xabiaxica

lauren89 said:


> So me listing an item on ebay and when it sells it is getting paid into my parents bank account and me being paid by somebody in england as working in Spain?
> 
> Im not trying to get out of paying it :S It was just a question as I'm new to this, my question was just what would I have to pay if it was me ebay shop which I was making money from, thats all?!
> 
> Sorry! ......


yes, strictly speaking - you'd be working here

you should register as autónomo (self-employed) & pay NI +/- 250€ a month +tax

I think you can earn +/- 20,000€ a year without paying tax - not entirely sure - my OH's accountant deals with all that for me


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## lauren89

20,000euros a year?! I wish!! But also it wouldnt be self employed as I would be working for my parents back in england, surely? Or am i getting confused?!


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## 90199

lauren89 said:


> 20,000euros a year?! I wish!! But also it wouldnt be self employed as I would be working for my parents back in england, surely? Or am i getting confused?!


You must ask this question at your Income Tax office in England, if you are employed by an English employer and your remuneration is in England you will be taxed at source.

However if you eventually leave England, you must inform the English income tax office and they will provide you with the forms to fill in once you arrive in Spain, You can then apply to be exempt from U.K. tax and pay your taxes on your earnings here. Once you are paying taxes and social security payments here, you will then be eligible for health care and other benefits,

Hepa


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## lauren89

Okay, thankyou. Bit confusing, but i think i get it


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## sdamazo

Lauren, if I understood right the issue, you can use paypal. Easy and not expensive.


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## lauren89

Use paypal for an ebay shop? I would do that its just who Im supposed to pay tax and NI to that im confused about...although it doesnt take much to confuse me to be honest!!!


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## sdamazo

I mean use as a means of receiving payment. 

No need to register in social security since you are working online. Unless you intend to live here for a very long time or retire.


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## xabiaxica

sdamazo said:


> I mean use as a means of receiving payment.
> 
> *No need to register in social security since you are working online*. Unless you intend to live here for a very long time or retire.


legally there is


please everyone, stop encouraging posters to break the law - or I shall have to close or remove the thread


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## lauren89

Social secirity...?! Whats that? Sorry!


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## lauren89

Nooooo dont close the thread! Im not asking people 2 advise me 2 do bad things lol....im just confused by 1 person telling me 1 thing and someone saying another! I thought it was a simple question haha...appears not!


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## jojo

Legally you need to pay tax in the country in which you spend the most time - the general cut off time is 6 months in a year. If you dont pay any autonomo or have a social security number, residencia and NIE number, you'll be considered a visitor. Which I believe means you will need to pay tax in the UK on your worldwide income.

Jo xxx


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## sdamazo

She will work online/remotely and will not be a permanent resident. Is it breaking the law?


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## lauren89

Thanks jo! So even if I'm being paid by an employer in the UK I still pay my tax in Spain? Sorry im being so confusing and annoying 

x


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## jojo

sdamazo said:


> She will work online/remotely and will not be a permanent resident. Is it breaking the law?


The definition of a permanent resident is someone who lives in Spain for more than 6 months. However, it does also mean that if she or her partner arent paying ino the system, then they wont be eligible for any healthcare benefits. But of course many people flit between the countries and in many cases its down to them to choose who they pay their taxes too

Jo xxx


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## sdamazo

Jo, I understand your concern. Anyway, she doesn't even know what she will do here. As far as I can see they are paying taxes in UK. Online business regulation is somehow different.


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## 90199

jojo said:


> Legally you need to pay tax in the country in which you spend the most time - the general cut off time is 6 months in a year. If you dont pay any autonomo or have a social security number, residencia and NIE number, you'll be considered a visitor. Which I believe means you will need to pay tax in the UK on your worldwide income.
> 
> Jo xxx


Jo, that is not strictly true. I have lived, here El Hierro, for years. I pay tax in the U.K. on my pension I have no other choice, the pension is a U.K. Government pension.

Hepa


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## jojo

sdamazo said:


> Jo, I understand your concern. Anyway, she doesn't even know what she will do here. As far as I can see they are paying taxes in UK. Online business regulation is somehow different.


 I'm sure that Lauren will sort it out as and when, but to work and pay taxes etc in the right place matters, especially in Spain, cos if she needs medical attention and has residency here, then she'll be expected to pay for it if she doesnt have a social security number. Working on line doesnt really have any different regulations cos its about what you are paying your taxes for. Rule of thumb is you pay them where you live!

Jo xxx


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## 90199

jojo said:


> The definition of a permanent resident is someone who lives in Spain for more than 6 months. However, it does also mean that if she or her partner arent paying ino the system, then they wont be eligible for any healthcare benefits. But of course many people flit between the countries *and in many cases its down to them to choose who they pay their taxes too*
> 
> Jo xxx


You do not have a choice, you can apply to the Inland Revenue to pay taxes in Spain, but the final decision is made by the U.K. tax authorities if they will allow exemptions from U.K. tax, and in some cases they refuse,

Hepa


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## lauren89

Okayyy, I didnt mean for this to take over the whole post!  It was just a question that got me thinking, but isnt a huge deal...I can find out im sure.


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## jojo

lauren89 said:


> Okayyy, I didnt mean for this to take over the whole post!  It was just a question that got me thinking, but isnt a huge deal...I can find out im sure.


Sorry to get boring , but it does need to be thought about. Until you settle you can get by on a EHIC, which you can get from Newcastles NHS dept. That way if you need to see an emergency doctor you'll be covered. 

Health cover goes hand in hand with the tax you pay and your social security number in Spain, unless you pay privately

Jo xxx


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## lauren89

I know it needs to be thought about, thats why I asked...I was just trying to get away from the whole post being about this  Its something I will find out about of course, its just on here everybody seems to be disagreeing with everyone else.

Lauren x


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## bernice34

This might help (taken from the website of a major international accounting firm):


_ .....Thus, where local rules infer tax liability in both countries then the fiscal residence will be deemed to exist in the country where there is a permanent home, if there is a permanent home available in both countries then fiscal residence will be deemed to exist in the country which can be shown to be the centre of vital economic interests. If even the last test is unclear then fiscal residence will be ascribed to the country of which one is a national....._

So, In English, if you can show that your work is based in the UK, and you could potentially have a home in either country (i.e. you rent in Spain and own a home in the UK, AND your main source of income is from the UK, then it's your nationality which defines where you are a _fiscal_ resident.

I hope so anyway, because I'm still paying tax in the UK (I have a business based there, but work remotely!)

Ollie (Bernice34's OH)


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## jojo

lauren89 said:


> I know it needs to be thought about, thats why I asked...I was just trying to get away from the whole post being about this  Its something I will find out about of course, its just on here everybody seems to be disagreeing with everyone else.
> 
> Lauren x


Well just you make sure you come over here with a EHIC when you do!!!! There, boring stuff out of the way LOL 

Jo xxx


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## lauren89

Okay, thanks  Are they easy to get?? Also....something else me and my bf have just thought of...the NIE card, are they easy to get and how do u do so? Can you be refused or anything like that?

Thanks x


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## jojo

lauren89 said:


> Okay, thanks  Are they easy to get?? Also....something else me and my bf have just thought of...the NIE card, are they easy to get and how do u do so? Can you be refused or anything like that?
> 
> Thanks x


How do I get an EHIC (European Health Insurance Card)?

NIE number you get from the foreigners office or national police station. Its fairly straightforward and easy, just take originals and photocopies of your passport and rental agreement. They do it differently in different areas, but generally they make an appointment for you to return once you've filled in the forms and paid the fee

Jo xxx


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## lauren89

I had just looked at the info on getting an EHIC  thanks!

Its really as easy as that?? lol!! Paid the fee? Which is..?! Does anyone know of any problems that may occur when getting an NIE or is it really that easy?? Obviously I dont want to turn up in Spain try and get an NIE card to not be able to get one for whatever reason or to have to wait ages which would delay trying to find a job? And once we have those things is it then just a simple case of searching for jobs or do you need anything else?

 x


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## 90199

Everything is different in different areas,


That is why we all argue a lot, but we only growl, never bite, well apart from Jojo


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## jojo

lauren89 said:


> I had just looked at the info on getting an EHIC  thanks!
> 
> Its really as easy as that?? lol!! Paid the fee? Which is..?! Does anyone know of any problems that may occur when getting an NIE or is it really that easy?? Obviously I dont want to turn up in Spain try and get an NIE card to not be able to get one for whatever reason or to have to wait ages which would delay trying to find a job? And once we have those things is it then just a simple case of searching for jobs or do you need anything else?
> 
> x



Its easy, but it can be really awkward. It depends on who you see on the day. Its not a card, just a number. In my area its combined with the residencia, so you have to show proof of where you live - not sure how much they cost, but its not a lot 20€ ish?????. To work legally you will also need a social security number, for that you need to find the local social security office anbd take originals and copies of everything you have thats vaguely official lol!!!

Jo xxx


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## lauren89

Ahhh a bit of growl and the odd bite is always good haha!


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## lauren89

Okay cool, well it all seems fairly simple, are you sure its that easy? Other than finding a job? LOL!!! x


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## jojo

lauren89 said:


> Okay cool, well it all seems fairly simple, are you sure its that easy? Other than finding a job? LOL!!! x







Not quite the same request, but you get the idea lol !!!

Jo xxx


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## lauren89

HAHA!!! Love it  lol x


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> YouTube - Funcionarios
> 
> Not quite the same request, but you get the idea lol !!!
> 
> Jo xxx


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## lauren89

So, theres no other majorly important must knows then??  x


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## 90199

lauren89 said:


> So, theres no other majorly important must knows then??  x


Two bed apartment, away from the tourist areas is around €350 to €450 a month, and in some cases that will include electricity and water charges.

And of course you will need to know the way to the airport

Let us know how you get on,

Hepa


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## Alcalaina

lauren89 said:


> So, theres no other majorly important must knows then??  x


Not unless you are bringing a car over, but don't get them started on that!


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## lauren89

Well I had thought about it....-m guessing not such a good idea then?! I looove my car though


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## jojo

lauren89 said:


> Well I had thought about it....-m guessing not such a good idea then?! I looove my car though


This may give you an idea http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/82708-driving-lanzarote.html

Jo xxx


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## lauren89

Well, what a bargain that is....! So I won't be taking my car over then, what are the prices of second hand cars over there like?


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## jojo

lauren89 said:


> Well, what a bargain that is....! So I won't be taking my car over then, what are the prices of second hand cars over there like?


What about little motos/scooters?????? Much more fun??? I dont know on the Islands, but mainland they're quite expensive comparatively and they're not easy to buy either - you will need a gestoria............. and an NIE number!!!

Jo xxx


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## lauren89

Gestoria...?!

I used to have a scooter over here when i was 16...never again! I never actually got on the road on it as i thought it would be a good idea to ride into a holly bush in the garden! HAHA...then refused 2 get on it ever again LOL! x


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## jojo

lauren89 said:


> Gestoria...?!



Not quite a solicitor, but someone who knows their way around the law in Spain!

Jo xxx


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## lauren89

You need that to buy a second hand car?!?! wow! x


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## jojo

lauren89 said:


> You need that to buy a second hand car?!?! wow! x


Maybe dont worry about a car initially, come over first and have a look around and see if its for you and that you can find work and a life. Then worry about a car. The rules are very different in Spain with regards to car buying and other things too. So one thing at a time!!!

Jo xxx


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## 90199

No need for a Gestoria here. I have a friend who buys and sells second hand cars, he does all the paperwork, arranges the change over documents finance everything. The Canary Islands are very different to the rest of Spain.


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## lauren89

Ahh ok great, I wasnt planning on getting a car straight away its just certain things Id like to know about so Im not shocked when I get over there 

How strange that the Canary Islands are so different to the rest of Spain...but good 4 me! 

x


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## adey

Right I'm laurens boyfriend so thought i'd join the epic post that this is turning into.

For all that lauren is looking to maintain an internet job while we are there i will be actively looking for work there and will work & pay taxes etc in spain. I know everywhere says jobs are hard to come by and unemployment is high but i hear the same things in england and across the uk, i've always seen it as a case of applying is where people falter as i've never really had a long period out of work due to proactive searching and generally bothering people in a friendly way until they eventually give in lol. When we move we plan to have enough money to support ourselves for a minimum of six months and perhaps a max of 12months this would be for things like rent, bills tax and general food money so that basically we could live breadline if unable to work at all. My personal target on a timescale to get myself into work would be 3 months if at that point i'm still having no luck then i would start to feel concerned and maybe re-evaluate things incase things stayed the same. I don't envision that it will take so long as i am very outgoing and have been able to adapt myself to moving place beforehand without major effort (i moved from birmingham to oakham to be with lauren and had to completely change my carreer, and i'm doing well in my new one now) I am however wise enough to be realistic and know that there are language and cultural differences when moving abroad so don't assume i'm niave i'm infact just well motivated when i need to be. 

From my own point of view if we sort out bills rent and the like before we move once there my aim will be to get my nie, social security number asap so i can switch focus to obtaining a job. I have spoken to a polish friend at work and he showed me his european national health card (i can't recall the abbreviation ) and that seems simple enough as we get it before we go. As to the nie card i know that it's done at police stations usually or if not they'd be able to direct me where i should be. All i know about the social security number though is that i have to apply at a local social security office. I am just curious as to if anyone has had delays or problems obtaining them aside from language barriers, is there anything i could to do to avoid lengthy waiting time on being able to start looking for work ?

'For the grammar and spelling nazis out there i don't like fullstops and commas, and spelling is fine so long as you get what it means '

Many thanks for the replies so far they have been inciteful and if nothing else good to things to know and prepare for.


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## xabiaxica

adey said:


> Right I'm laurens boyfriend so thought i'd join the epic post that this is turning into.
> 
> For all that lauren is looking to maintain an internet job while we are there i will be actively looking for work there and will work & pay taxes etc in spain. I know everywhere says jobs are hard to come by and unemployment is high but i hear the same things in england and across the uk, i've always seen it as a case of applying is where people falter as i've never really had a long period out of work due to proactive searching and generally bothering people in a friendly way until they eventually give in lol. When we move we plan to have enough money to support ourselves for a minimum of six months and perhaps a max of 12months this would be for things like rent, bills tax and general food money so that basically we could live breadline if unable to work at all. My personal target on a timescale to get myself into work would be 3 months if at that point i'm still having no luck then i would start to feel concerned and maybe re-evaluate things incase things stayed the same. I don't envision that it will take so long as i am very outgoing and have been able to adapt myself to moving place beforehand without major effort (i moved from birmingham to oakham to be with lauren and had to completely change my carreer, and i'm doing well in my new one now) I am however wise enough to be realistic and know that there are language and cultural differences when moving abroad so don't assume i'm niave i'm infact just well motivated when i need to be.
> 
> From my own point of view if we sort out bills rent and the like before we move once there my aim will be to get my nie, social security number asap so i can switch focus to obtaining a job. I have spoken to a polish friend at work and he showed me his european national health card (i can't recall the abbreviation ) and that seems simple enough as we get it before we go. As to the nie card i know that it's done at police stations usually or if not they'd be able to direct me where i should be. All i know about the social security number though is that i have to apply at a local social security office. I am just curious as to if anyone has had delays or problems obtaining them aside from language barriers, is there anything i could to do to avoid lengthy waiting time on being able to start looking for work ?
> 
> 'For the grammar and spelling nazis out there i don't like fullstops and commas, and spelling is fine so long as you get what it means '
> 
> Many thanks for the replies so far they have been inciteful and if nothing else good to things to know and prepare for.


welcome!!

no grammar & spelling nazis here


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## jojo

Hello Mr. Lauren!!! I still maintain that you go there and take a look first, sort of a fact finding holiday with a view to staying if it seems feasible or not!! Work will be your biggest challege. ~Firstly because there isnt the same level of unemployment benefits in Spain (Its only payable to those who've paid in for a signficant time and then its time limited), so therefore you'll be up against desperate people - who arent getting any money atall. Also there are employees who will pay you "cash in hand" but its irregular and if caught you'll be in trouble, or theres commission only telesales (no commission no job lol!!). But anyway, thats something you need to look into when you arrive.

Technically the EHIC is for tou rist emergencies only, altho residents do use them Altho they would have to make out they are visitors), but the problem is that the card will only cover emergencies - so if you break a leg, your first visit will be covered, but if you need to go back or need medication etc, you'll have to pay - unlike the UK, where if you have a UK address its free!!! (A broken leg will cost nearly 3000€ - I know!!!!!) But again thats something you need to find out when you get there.

As for paying tax in the UK or Spain, well if you're going to live in Spain then you/she needs to pay in Spain for the above reasons! But of course if you come over for a visit initially to see how it goes, you'll be able to do things gradually and wont be dissappointed if all fials and you wont have burnt your UK bridges. As for buying a car - the rules are not the same as the UK, you need to take advise to make sure you dont get caught!!!

Jo xxx


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## lauren89

A broken leg 3000euros?!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! x


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## MacRov

I'm sure there are people that would do it for much less but Jojo seems like a nice person so wouldn't want her legs broken haha


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## adey

Well we are due to go on holiday in september to lanzarote and we enjoyed being there last time but i think this time with this in mind we will look into moving and look at the job scene and what's being advertised and what looks long term as apposed to seasonal. A lot of our research so far has been internet based and investigative such as being on here asking people who have done it, but we are taking onboard that checking things out first is a good idea, rather than jumping on a plane and keeping our fingers crossed.


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## jojo

MacRov said:


> I'm sure there are people that would do it for much less but Jojo seems like a nice person so wouldn't want her legs broken haha


I slipped over in Mercadona last year and broke my leg!!! I initially got the x ray and plaster on the EHIC (naughty of me I know), but on my return visits I would have had to pay, but by then Mercadona had admitted liability, so I went private!!!

Back on topic tho, I think its important for potential expats to do loads of research and here is a good place to start, visit and get chatting to people who are there, who've done it and who can give the inside story. But most importantly, dont give up too much in the UK - certainly not to start with anyway! Spain is a great place to live and to be, but its not an easy place, the language, the rules, the paperwork, the recession....

Jo xxx


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## 90199

I had eye treatment none urgent with the EHIC


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## jojo

Hepa said:


> I had eye treatment none urgent with the EHIC


Of course you did LOLOL!!!! But thats not how its supposed to work 

Jo xxx


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## adey

Ah forums and their off topic antics, i don't think that'll change no matter the forum lol.

So am i to guess neither of you had any problems obtaining a social security and nie number  ?


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## xabiaxica

adey said:


> Ah forums and their off topic antics, i don't think that'll change no matter the forum lol.
> 
> So am i to guess neither of you had any problems obtaining a social security and nie number  ?


of course they didn't - as EU citizens it's just a case of filling the forms in correctly, taking photocopies of everything you think you need & everything you think NO WAY do you need - in quadruplicate - to the right place on the right day at the right time............................and as someone else on here says.........Roberto es tu tío


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## jojo

adey said:


> Ah forums and their off topic antics, i don't think that'll change no matter the forum lol.
> 
> So am i to guess neither of you had any problems obtaining a social security and nie number  ?


Sorry 

NIE is fairly straight forward, I did tell your other half a few posts ago of the possible problems see#63 ish. But essentially, you go to the foreigners office or national police station, they give you forms to fill in, bank thing to pay and an appointment to return with it all filled up. You must take originals and copies of passports, rental agreements, anything and everything that you can think of and their photo copies and then they tap their computer and you should be given your NIE/residencia certificate DO NOT LOSE IT (I lost mine once and never again lol). Once you have that, you then photocopy it, photo copy everythinbg else and take it to the social security office and if all is well and the mood is good, you should leave there with a social security certificate

However, the way things are done tends to vary from area to area. Some places make you queue for hours, only to get to the desk just as they're closing for siesta. 

The hardest part is filling ou the forms as the questions are in spanish and the answers have to be, but google translate or a friendly barman may help?????

Jo xxxx


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## 90199

adey said:


> Ah forums and their off topic antics, i don't think that'll change no matter the forum lol.
> 
> So am i to guess neither of you had any problems obtaining a social security and nie number  ?


No, it is just a bit of a faff, but that is Spain. If there is an easy and a difficult bureaucratic way then the Spanish will choose the difficult.

Go back in the thread and view the youtube link that jojo put on. Not quite as bad as that but that is the gist.


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## adey

If it's simply a matter of patience i'm not really concerned, i have it bucketloads and as i'm not going to be able to do any looking for work it'll give me something to do. I also don't mind if i have to go back if there's something i've missed to me it'll be a way of learning to find my way around - always look at the positives.


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## gus-lopez

When are you coming because July & August aren't the best times to be dealing with spanish officialdom. Most are on vacations & those that are left wish they were too !


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## lauren89

We have no idea when we are coming, as soon as we have saved up enough money really, my bf may come out first while I finish sorting things out here while I sell the place we live at the minute, and move back in with my parents to save even more money for us for when I go out there. Does anybody think thats a good idea? Ade going out first, as we also think that would give us some idea of how well it will work as to how quickly he can find a job etc. Before we both disappear together....and have nothing in the uk? Also is there a best time of year to move out to one of the Canary Islands, for finding jobs, more accomodation etc?

1 other quick question, does anybody know of any good websites for long term rentals on the Canary Islands. I have been looking on the internet, there seems to be loads in Tenerife and no where near as many on other islands....is that supposed 2 tell me something?? 

Thanks  x


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## jojo

I wouldnt recommend selling your home. Rent it out maybe, but to sell it means that it will be too easy to blow the money and then if it all goes wrong, you would go back to nothing, with nothing. 

Jo xxxx


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## lauren89

I have no choice but to sell it, it is shared ownership which you are not allowed to rent out as you are sub-letting it. Also my ex is still on the mortgage and won't get himself off so the only option I have is to sell it. I want to sell it anyway even if we weren't to move abroad...so i'm not just doing it because of this move  x


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## jojo

lauren89 said:


> I have no choice but to sell it, it is shared ownership which you are not allowed to rent out as you are sub-letting it. Also my ex is still on the mortgage and won't get himself off so the only option I have is to sell it. I want to sell it anyway even if we weren't to move abroad...so i'm not just doing it because of this move  x


As long as you have somewhere to go and a way of surviving if you cant make it in Spain. Yes, I'm being negative, but I'm also being real. Even in a good economy it may not work and for many reasons. To throw capital investment at a high risk project/whim isnt sensible, so try not to use any of that money on this until it looks like its going to work

Jo xxxx


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## lauren89

Im 22, and only had the mortgage for about 2 and a half years, the amount that I will have paid off is going to be very minimal...thats unless I make some on it, well i can always hope lol! I'm not planning on using all the money that we save just in Spain, I am sensible enough to keep a fair bit incase we have to come back, for flight, rent, to live on etc  x


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## adey

I'd just like to pop in here a huge thank you to all that have taken the time to reply and answer our questions so far, it has been invaluable so far and hugely beneficial to us both and given us a great starting platform to work from.


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## pladecalvo

jojo said:


> As long as you have somewhere to go and a way of surviving if you cant make it in Spain.


Agree 100% with this. I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it...Don't, Don't, Don't emigrate to another country unless you can afford to live there without* HAVING* to find work...just DON'T! In Spain, the chances of you finding work are slim. If you do not speak the language fluently the chances are even slimmer. What few jobs there are here are what the Spanish don't want and those jobs are being snapped up by ex Eastern bloc immigrants who will do them for about half the wages that anyone else can work for. 

The young couple living near me came over 5 years ago. Sold their UK property and all their other assets and have spent the last 5 years desperately looking for work....ANY work and have found nothing. Their capital has now been spent and they are now trying to sell their house here, in a depressed housing market and going back to Britain to live with their in-laws because they are broke and can't afford to buy a house of their own in Britain.

Too many people think that the streets are paved with gold here. I read that more than 44% of the Brits that have moved here in the past 10 years have now gone back home.....disillusioned and most of them.... stony-broke.


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## jojo

pladecalvo said:


> Agree 100% with this. I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it...Don't, Don't, Don't emigrate to another country unless you can afford to live there without* HAVING* to find work...just DON'T! In Spain, the chances of you finding work are slim. If you do not speak the language fluently the chances are even slimmer. What few jobs there are here are what the Spanish don't want and those jobs are being snapped up by ex Eastern bloc immigrants who will do them for about half the wages that anyone else can work for.
> 
> The young couple living near me came over 5 years ago. Sold their UK property and all their other assets and have spent the last 5 years desperately looking for work....ANY work and have found nothing. Their capital has now been spent and they are now trying to sell their house here, in a depressed housing market and going back to Britain to live with their in-laws because they are broke and can't afford to buy a house of their own in Britain.
> 
> Too many people think that the streets are paved with gold here. I read that more than 44% of the Brits that have moved here in the past 10 years have now gone back home.....disillusioned and most of them.... stony-broke.


Miserable b*****s arent we!!!! I dont know if anyone watches "Emmerdale", but Andy Sugden and his girlfriend are making plans to move to Spain and a recent episode had them talking about how there was plenty of work out here for farm labourers!!!!! It needs to be mentioned that this is a soap and there is not plenty of work out here for farm labourers - most Spanish farm labourers go to France to fruit pick!!!!!

I have to also say that before we came to Spain I was totally convinced that it would be easy to get work here. I thought that, unlike the UK there were no hard and fast employment laws and it was just a matter of asking around and getting work - plenty of work "cash in hand", that the cost of living would be nonepence and we could just work when we needed money. Hhhmmmm!!! Its far harder to get work here than the UK, the rules and the language make it really tough even if the work was available (and the pay is s***)! and of course, unlike the UK there are no benefits or allowances to fall back on. You're on your own.

and in some areas there is a bit of an uprising against "guiris" (foreigners) coming along and taking their jobs, which bearing in mind the social security is time limited here is kinda fair enough!?

Jo xxx


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## pladecalvo

jojo said:


> Miserable b*****s arent we!!!!


No, just realistic.

I retired 8 years ago when I was 53 and came here. But before I came I counted out my pennies and divided what I had by the number of years I had to wait until my UK pension started (in 4 years time). That gave me an annual living budget that, no matter what, I knew I could not exceed. I've managed to do that and even spend less than the budget most years.

It's the only way to do it. It is lunacy to come here knowing that you can't survive unless you find work!!!


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## xabiaxica

jojo said:


> Miserable b*****s arent we!!!! I dont know if anyone watches "Emmerdale", but Andy Sugden and his girlfriend are making plans to move to Spain and a recent episode had them talking about how there was plenty of work out here for farm labourers!!!!! It needs to be mentioned that this is a soap and there is not plenty of work out here for farm labourers - most Spanish farm labourers go to France to fruit pick!!!!!


my dad watches it & I saw that bit - I turned to my OH & said 'that's it - the forum will be overrun with farm labourers wanting to come to Spain!!!'

I hope they do come - & I hope they portray it as it really is


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## Alcalaina

xabiachica said:


> my dad watches it & I saw that bit - I turned to my OH & said 'that's it - the forum will be overrun with farm labourers wanting to come to Spain!!!'
> 
> I hope they do come - & I hope they portray it as it really is


They should show them that film about the Moroccans working in the polytunnels that we had on here a while ago - that should put them off.


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