# Spain One Of The Worst Countries To Ship Goods To?



## señorgringo (Apr 5, 2012)

We've moved to Valencia in 2012 and shipping goods internationally into Spain quickly became the proverbial bane of our existence. And if our own experiences over the past seven years are any gauge the situation has only gotten worse.

I could waste your time with various stories of being slammed with exorbitant custom fees, the constant delays, the nonsensical 'papelera' we had to put up with. Just the other week we had customs refuse a FedEx package which then was shipped back to the U.S. and cost us a $84 reversal fee (on top of the $54 it cost to ship it in the first place). 

What most disconcerting is that vendors seem to be catching on to this recurring customs nightmare and are increasingly starting to refuse shipments into Spain. It's like we are living in a 3rd world country! Oh wait - vendors actually ship there most of the time!

Case in point: I just attempted to order some contact lenses from lens.com. When I filled out the order page I somehow wasn't able to see ES-Spain in the drop down list of about 120 countries. So I got in touch with support and after some hemming and hawing they told me that they've stopped shipping to Spain due to customs issues. Mind you that they still ship to places like Yemen or Venezuela!!! 

My wife does most of the ordering actually and there are several vendors she's unable to use as well as they - you guessed it - don't ship to Spain. There is a reshipping company we use in Britain that's pretty good and has saved our butts on a regular basis. It ain't cheap but worth every penny as we effectively had to stop shipping items directly to us from anywhere outside of the EU - and we even had packages stuck in customs coming from inside the EU, e.g. Holland or Germany.

I mean - what gives?? What is the deal with customs in Spain? Why are they so hell bent on making life impossible for expats as well as their own citizens? :mad2:


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

señorgringo said:


> We've moved to Valencia in 2012 and shipping goods internationally into Spain quickly became the proverbial bane of our existence. And if our own experiences over the past seven years are any gauge the situation has only gotten worse.
> 
> I could waste your time with various stories of being slammed with exorbitant custom fees, the constant delays, the nonsensical 'papelera' we had to put up with. Just the other week we had customs refuse a FedEx package which then was shipped back to the U.S. and cost us a $84 reversal fee (on top of the $54 it cost to ship it in the first place).
> 
> ...


For contact lenses go to www.lentillasbaratas.es good quality, good service and they are from Spain.
Customs problems, in particular with stuff from the US, is a reaction to Trump and the US making it more difficult to send stuff there.


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## Hepa (Apr 2, 2018)

We have problems living in the Canary Islands, we are two Spanish provinces, but many in the Iberian part of Spain seem to be unaware of this and will not deliver goods to the Canary Islands. So we import from elsewhere in the world.


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## bikerboy123 (Sep 30, 2018)

poor attempt at having a dig at Trump, importing into Spain has been a nightmare for decades way before Trump showed up.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

bikerboy123 said:


> poor attempt at having a dig at Trump, importing into Spain has been a nightmare for decades way before Trump showed up.


Never had problems before other than with USPS not being able to tell their Spain from their Sri Lanka (next on the list alphabetically) and sending stuff halfway round the world en route to here.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

For contacts we use https://www.visiondirect.co.uk/?bus...sfkXUF4nOyN1pWvkxqdG8yCWceGD9Y1xoC0qcQAvD_BwE
Never more than 2 days to arrive, over a certain amount you are likely to get free delivery as well.
Yes stuff from the US has always been an issue customs wise so I never bother now and will only try to source from an EU supplier, same in the UK as well & that is why many sellers use a EU address from where to ship (same with Chinese goods)


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## Love Karma (Oct 10, 2018)

bikerboy123 said:


> poor attempt at having a dig at Trump, importing into Spain has been a nightmare for decades way before Trump showed up.


Agree a very pitiful attempt indeed. As you say been going on for decades, back in 2002 left my watch in Houston Texas, friend shipped it back took 5 months in all, as held in customs, then sent back then held again tried to charge exorbitant import duty and the paperwork involved was quite ridiculous. They asked for original receipt of purchase, photographs of me wearing the watch amongst many other things. Madness.


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## señorgringo (Apr 5, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> For contact lenses go to www.lentillasbaratas.es good quality, good service and they are from Spain.
> Customs problems, in particular with stuff from the US, is a reaction to Trump and the US making it more difficult to send stuff there.


visiondirect.es is cheaper.


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## señorgringo (Apr 5, 2012)

Love Karma said:


> Agree a very pitiful attempt indeed. As you say been going on for decades, back in 2002 left my watch in Houston Texas, friend shipped it back took 5 months in all, as held in customs, then sent back then held again tried to charge exorbitant import duty and the paperwork involved was quite ridiculous. They asked for original receipt of purchase, photographs of me wearing the watch amongst many other things. Madness.


Agreed. We moved here during the Obama years and getting our things shipped here was a complete nightmare. I remember being foolish enough to ship my old 32'' Mac display and Spanish customs wanted €550 which was more than the display was worth at the time. 

I think it's pure harassment mixed with greed and corruption. Plus Spaniards as a whole don't buy abroad as their English (or any other language) skills are lacking. So they see guiris order things abroad and they stick 'em with extremely high customs fees.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

señorgringo said:


> Agreed. We moved here during the Obama years and getting our things shipped here was a complete nightmare. I remember being foolish enough to ship my old 32'' Mac display and Spanish customs wanted €550 which was more than the display was worth at the time.
> 
> I think it's pure harassment mixed with greed and corruption. Plus Spaniards as a whole don't buy abroad as their English (or any other language) skills are lacking. So they see guiris order things abroad and they stick 'em with extremely high customs fees.


We shipped a whole load of stuff from FL in 2009 with no problems and no customs duty to pay. Recently we bought $60 worth of stuff and Customs wanted 36€!


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## señorgringo (Apr 5, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> We shipped a whole load of stuff from FL in 2009 with no problems and no customs duty to pay. Recently we bought $60 worth of stuff and Customs wanted 36€!


It seems to be getting worse every single year it seems. To be honest it's one of a handful of reasons why we are thinking of leaving. Dealing with anything administrative or related to customer service in this country has cost us years of aggravation and frustration. Spain is dysfunctional to the core which in part explains why their economy never gets out of the gate. :mad2:


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Just to add a thought my guitar string supplier in the US recommends using normal FedEx delivery and not the more urgent service level you pay a little extra for. They have seen many times customs slap a fee on urgent but very rarely on normal delivery. They offer this advice quite openly on their website. Make of that what you will.

My last two shipments took between three and four weeks (Ohio to NY to Madrid 3 days . Madrid to Cadiz 2.5 to 3.5 weeks .

And an aside: Why do I buy flamenco guitar strings in the US when I live in Flamencoland? Spanish supplier 14.99 Euros a set. USA 6$ a set. Funny old world layball:

And just a final aside but made me very happy  I had a guitar made for me in Granada *13 years* ago. Due to miss use the tuning machine (the bit where you turn the knobs to tune for those who are not into guitars) broke.


The company that makes them in Ohio still exists. I sent an email asking if I could buy parts or if it was necessary to buy a whole new tuning machine. It costs 350$s! I stated clearly it had broken due to my error. They replied saying, I quote:


"I am glad to hear you have enjoyed those tuners for the last 13 years! The knob should have held up even with the extra tension, you shouldn't have to repair it. We would rather send you a set of tuners that you can be happy with for many more years! Please reply with your address ……." And sure enough I now have my new tuners on my guitar.

Customer service beyond the call I think. I now buy all my guitar parts from them


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## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

sorry misread haha !


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## señorgringo (Apr 5, 2012)

nigele2 said:


> Just to add a thought my guitar string supplier in the US recommends using normal FedEx delivery and not the more urgent service level you pay a little extra for. They have seen many times customs slap a fee on urgent but very rarely on normal delivery. They offer this advice quite openly on their website. Make of that what you will.
> 
> My last two shipments took between three and four weeks (Ohio to NY to Madrid 3 days . Madrid to Cadiz 2.5 to 3.5 weeks .
> 
> ...


THIS ^^^^ Customer service above and beyond is a complete unknown here in Spain. And it's an attitude that is as deliberate as it is pervasive. I have often walked into a shop waiting to be attended and suddenly the phone rang. It seems to be a common procedure to let real live clients stand and wait whilst spending 10 minutes to answer useless questions of someone who may never even buy anything. I usually just walk out as I consider it disrespectful.

But anyway, even getting on the phone with American customer service reps is always super refreshing to us. The complete lack of customer service and general lack of care is a cultural phenomenon Spaniards take for granted and we guiris will never ever get used to.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

From the EU website:



> As soon as you buy a product from a non-EU country, then effectively you become an importer and become liable to Customs and Excise Duty as well as Value Added Tax (VAT) payments. If the terms of sale do not specify another arrangement, the goods would normally be held by the Customs Authority at entry, pending the payment of duty and tax.
> 
> Customs officers examine packages arriving from outside the EU in order to:
> 
> ...


From what I've heard, about ten percent of packages are actually checked in Spain. If any of the above conditions aren't met, there can be long delays and the procedures for notifying the recipient leave a lot to be desired.

But I've no idea whether Spain is any worse than other EU countries in this respect. I recall similar problems buying books from the US when I lived in England, more than ten years ago.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

señorgringo said:


> THIS ^^^^ Customer service above and beyond is a complete unknown here in Spain. And it's an attitude that is as deliberate as it is pervasive. I have often walked into a shop waiting to be attended and suddenly the phone rang. It seems to be a common procedure to let real live clients stand and wait whilst spending 10 minutes to answer useless questions of someone who may never even buy anything. I usually just walk out as I consider it disrespectful.
> 
> But anyway, even getting on the phone with American customer service reps is always super refreshing to us. The complete lack of customer service and general lack of care is a cultural phenomenon Spaniards take for granted and we guiris will never ever get used to.


There are cultural differences between the US and Spain which you just have to learn to live with. It's to do with attitudes to time. In the US, time is money and everything is done to a deadline. In Spain they do things sequentially, regardless of how long it takes. Once you get to the front of the line, you get all the attention you need.

This article might help!

How Different Cultures Understand Time


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## señorgringo (Apr 5, 2012)

Alcalaina said:


> There are cultural differences between the US and Spain which you just have to learn to live with. It's to do with attitudes to time. In the US, time is money and everything is done to a deadline. In Spain they do things sequentially, regardless of how long it takes. Once you get to the front of the line, you get all the attention you need.
> 
> This article might help!
> 
> How Different Cultures Understand Time


That's what we thought in the first year or two. Unfortunately after seven years here we realize that we probably will never get used to the Spanish way of doing things. Clearly it's our problem and not that of Spain, so most likely we're going to have to leave sometime this year.

By the way I appreciate your perspective and believe me it's not due to a lack of understanding. We totally grasp the WHY and HOW - it's just that we are wired differently due to our upbringing. Some people come to Spain and think it paradise because it's compatible with their own nature or perceptions. For us unfortunately it seems that we made a bad choice. Not that we would miss the time we've spent in Spain - we had many great experiences. And if nothing else we learned a lot about ourselves, that's for sure ;-)


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

We've had experiences of being "ignored" by shop assistants too busy chatting or restocking shelves to serve us, certainly, but we've also had many examples of outstanding customer service (especially from small businesses) in Spain.

As I mentioned in another thread recently, buying a tumble dryer and being asked if I'd like it delivered that same morning or later on that day. As we lived in a street with no vehicle access at the time, and about 300m from the nearest place a van could be parked, not only that appliance but also washing machines, fridgefreezers, beds, sofas and building materials all had to be carried that distance by the deliverymen, uphill and sometimes in 35C temperatures. All done cheerfully and willingly, for no extra charge. Bought a free standing fan from a small local shop and the shopkeeper insisted on assembling it for me, rather than just handing over the box. Maybe the customers waiting behind me to be served were irrritated by that, but I wasn't.

Once we bought a new glass shelf for our fridge, having broken the original one. Somehow we got the measurements wrong and when we got the new shelf home, it was too small. Sheepishly took it back to the glass shop and explained, handed over the correct measurements and asked for a new one. Pop back in 20 minutes or so, they said, which we did and it was ready and they would not accept payment although the mistake was entirely our fault.

Another time the glass door in our washing machine shattered for no apparent reason. I contacted the spares company listed in the instruction manual, by email and asked if it was possible to obtain a new one. Got a prompt reply saying certainly, and attaching fitting instructions. We could either collect it from their Málaga depot or have it delivered to the door for €6 extra, and no payment was asked for to place the order, we should just pay the deliveryman.

Countless examples of ferretarias being able (and keen) to supply some small spare part costing just pennies to enable something to be repaired, rather than being told we'd have to buy a new one. Planned obsolescence seems much less prevalent here, and make do and mend still holds sway.

Bought a pair of boots from a shop some 20km away (so they did not know me as a local) and then put them away unworn for about 4 months. When I did wear them for the first time I realised there was something sharp sticking through one of the soles. I hadn't kept the receipt so thought I might be wasting my time trying to return them, but on returning to the shop and explaining they were exchanged immediately with no quibble, despite the lack of proof of purchase.


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## señorgringo (Apr 5, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> We've had experiences of being "ignored" by shop assistants too busy chatting or restocking shelves to serve us, certainly, but we've also had many examples of outstanding customer service (especially from small businesses) in Spain.
> 
> As I mentioned in another thread recently, buying a tumble dryer and being asked if I'd like it delivered that same morning or later on that day. As we lived in a street with no vehicle access at the time, and about 300m from the nearest place a van could be parked, not only that appliance but also washing machines, fridgefreezers, beds, sofas and building materials all had to be carried that distance by the deliverymen, uphill and sometimes in 35C temperatures. All done cheerfully and willingly, for no extra charge. Bought a free standing fan from a small local shop and the shopkeeper insisted on assembling it for me, rather than just handing over the box. Maybe the customers waiting behind me to be served were irrritated by that, but I wasn't.
> 
> ...


Well, it sounds like we should have moved to Malaga! ;-)


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

señorgringo said:


> Well, it sounds like we should have moved to Malaga! ;-)


I'm in Vélez-Málaga actually, about 30km East of Málaga.

The washing machine spares company was in Zaragoza, by the way, and the shoe shop in Nerja.

Have you not experienced being given small (€5-€10) discounts on things you're buying, either, without even having asked for any reduction? We have, many times. 

Just like how the fruterias almost always round down the prices - if something comes to say €1.23, they just charge €1.20. Not very much, but it's appreciated. By some of us, anyway.


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## señorgringo (Apr 5, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> I'm in Vélez-Málaga actually, about 30km East of Málaga.
> 
> The washing machine spares company was in Zaragoza, by the way, and the shoe shop in Nerja.
> 
> ...


I don't want to derail this thread so let me just respond by saying that people in Valencia are very different. Even Spaniards from other regions complain that Valencianos are sort of rude. Anyway, I'm happy that you've found a spot where you are being treated well and appear to be appreciated by the people around you.


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## expat16 (Jun 11, 2016)

I heard the same thing about Catalans but now that I'm in Barcelona my experience has been different, most people here have been really friendly and helpful.

Customer service experience here for me has been superb, but perhaps that is my perception having come here after living 6 years in The Netherlands, where it is truly atrocious.

I'd hardly call Spain, which has one of the healthiest societies in the world in my view, 'dysfunctional to the core'. I do agree the bureaucracy can get ridiculous sometimes, but overall, having lived in Sweden, UK, and The Netherlands, I find that holistically speaking any drawbacks are more than compensated for in other aspects and prefer Spain far more than those other European countries. 

I do agree that if it's not making you happy for your needs leaving is the way to go, why stay in a place that makes you unhappy? I had strong complaints about The Netherlands and I left as soon as I got my EU permanent residence, that place was not good for my health.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

señorgringo said:


> That's what we thought in the first year or two. Unfortunately after seven years here we realize that we probably will never get used to the Spanish way of doing things. Clearly it's our problem and not that of Spain, so most likely we're going to have to leave sometime this year.
> 
> By the way I appreciate your perspective and believe me it's not due to a lack of understanding. We totally grasp the WHY and HOW - it's just that we are wired differently due to our upbringing. Some people come to Spain and think it paradise because it's compatible with their own nature or perceptions. For us unfortunately it seems that we made a bad choice. Not that we would miss the time we've spent in Spain - we had many great experiences. And if nothing else we learned a lot about ourselves, that's for sure ;-)


Interesting! I am from England therefore am also "wired differently". At first I found the Spanish way quaintly old-fashioned (being newly retired I had plenty of time so waiting 20 minutes in Correos to post a letter wasn't a problem). Then after a couple of years the tint wore off the rose-coloured spectacles and I got irritated by what I saw as gross inefficiency. However, as I made more Spanish friends and my social life changed, it all started to seem normal and sensible. They don't see waiting in line as a waste of time, but as an opportunity to have a chat.  

I only discovered that academic analysis three years ago, while doing a short course in cultural studies, but retrospectively it seemed to make perfect sense.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

There are two aspects to customer service, face to face and those responsible for handling queries or complaints when things have gone wrong. Spain fails on the second one and some employees seem to take it personally if there is a fault in a product. A shop i used to go in in San pedro the Dependiente used to embrace and kiss me if she saw me in the streets but scarcely nodded when at the check out. Suppose she was dedicated.

Yes Netherlands is not noted for pleasant shop/restaurant staff, very surly. I used to travel there several times a year to Den Haag when family lived there and loved it. Everything works well, very healthy lifestyle but don't expect friendly chats.

I remember when I was very young going with my Grandmother to the village shop and it was a bit like smaller shops are now in Spain. It seemed as if hardly anyone got served and i used to hate it if i was made to tag along.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Since we seem to have thread-drift and are now looking at the general Spanish attitude to efficiency which seems to upset so many people, we need top consider why people here tend to live longer. Many cite the Spanish diet but much more important is their attitude and the fact that they don't going banging their heads against a brick wall trying to get things done before they are due to be done - the so-called 'mañana attitude.'

We are relaxed and get prompt service because we don't get all uptight. Others, we have observed, start ranting and raving and are still waiting when we have left. Relax!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> Since we seem to have thread-drift and are now looking at the general Spanish attitude to efficiency which seems to upset so many people, we need top consider why people here tend to live longer. Many cite the Spanish diet but much more important is their attitude and the fact that they don't going banging their heads against a brick wall trying to get things done before they are due to be done - the so-called 'mañana attitude.'
> 
> We are relaxed and get prompt service because we don't get all uptight. Others, we have observed, start ranting and raving and are still waiting when we have left. Relax!


I'm not sure if it's the main cause of longevity but there's certainly an attitude of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" in rural Andalucia (can't speak for anywhere else as this is the only place I've lived). Why worry about something that might not happen? Wait till it happens, then sort it out. It can be quite maddening when you (as an uptight northerner) can see impending disaster but nobody else takes it seriously. 

An example; the storm drains installed on our road 8 years ago, to stop it turning into a river when it rains, have gradually been filling up with earth. There's now only about 10% of the original space where the water is meant to go. I've reported it several times but I know they won't open it up and clean it out until there is actually a flood. Así es Andalucía ...


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> I'm not sure if it's the main cause of longevity but there's certainly an attitude of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" in rural Andalucia (can't speak for anywhere else as this is the only place I've lived). Why worry about something that might not happen? Wait till it happens, then sort it out. It can be quite maddening when you (as an uptight northerner) can see impending disaster but nobody else takes it seriously.
> 
> An example; the storm drains installed on our road 8 years ago, to stop it turning into a river when it rains, have gradually been filling up with earth. There's now only about 10% of the original space where the water is meant to go. I've reported it several times but I know they won't open it up and clean it out until there is actually a flood. Así es Andalucía ...


I think you are right. I lost patience with Spain (although I still like the place). I like everything to be right. A slight hairline crack in a wall, a sticking door etc. Sometimes OH has been known to call me the Foreman I am not particularly tidy but don't like faults or people not dealing with them. Not as bad as someone I know who is constantly reporting even a tiniest pothole, a few leaves obscuring a road sign etc. but I admit I could be less impatient. There I have said it


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Isobella said:


> I think you are right. I lost patience with Spain (although I still like the place). I like everything to be right. A slight hairline crack in a wall, a sticking door etc. Sometimes OH has been known to call me the Foreman I am not particularly tidy but don't like faults or people not dealing with them. Not as bad as someone I know who is constantly reporting even a tiniest pothole, a few leaves obscuring a road sign etc. but I admit I could be less impatient. There I have said it


Oh dear, you'd hate Alcalá then. The electricity cables draped outside the buildings would give you heart failure!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

señorgringo said:


> visiondirect.es is cheaper.


So why did you want to order from lens.com?




señorgringo said:


> I think it's pure harassment mixed with greed and corruption. Plus Spaniards as a whole don't buy abroad as their English (or any other language) skills are lacking. So they see guiris order things abroad and they stick 'em with extremely high customs fees.


I am of the opinion that a lot of "guiris" in Spain rely on Amazon etc to send them things from the English speaking world when in reality the same or similar products exist here, but they don't know that as they don't have the language skills to know required. Other times it's a matter of not exploring the Spanish environment, being inquisitive enough, not noticing how things are done/ what products are used for xxx. Another factor can be confidence, having enough confidence to ask or enough confidence to try to speak the language. Other times it's pig ignorance and an attitude that everything is better from the "home" country.
And sometimes what you're looking for can't be found here, or is too expensive, or is of a different quality and so you make the choice of getting it sent here, or moving on and forgetting .
A lot of this of course has to do with how we live today with packages flying round the world in a few days and almost anything we want available for a click on an icon. Just a few short years ago people lived perfectly well without this that and the other, and we could do that still...




señorgringo said:


> That's what we thought in the first year or two. Unfortunately after seven years here we realize that we probably will never get used to the Spanish way of doing things. Clearly it's our problem and not that of Spain, so most likely we're going to have to leave sometime this year.
> 
> By the way I appreciate your perspective and believe me it's not due to a lack of understanding. We totally grasp the WHY and HOW - it's just that we are wired differently due to our upbringing. Some people come to Spain and think it paradise because it's compatible with their own nature or perceptions. For us unfortunately it seems that we made a bad choice. Not that we would miss the time we've spent in Spain - we had many great experiences. And if nothing else we learned a lot about ourselves, that's for sure ;-)


Well at least you've learnt what is important to you and what you now need in order to live the lifestyle that you want. It's true that to live abroad you have to be able to let go of a certain amount of your culture and your expectations of how things should be done, with a certain acceptance of how they _*are*_ going to be done. If that can't be achieved, problems will be encountered.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Interesting! I am from England therefore am also "wired differently". At first I found the Spanish way quaintly old-fashioned (being newly retired I had plenty of time so waiting 20 minutes in Correos to post a letter wasn't a problem). Then after a couple of years the tint wore off the rose-coloured spectacles and I got irritated by what I saw as gross inefficiency. However, as I made more Spanish friends and my social life changed, it all started to seem normal and sensible. They don't see waiting in line as a waste of time, but as an opportunity to have a chat.
> 
> I only discovered that academic analysis three years ago, while doing a short course in cultural studies, but retrospectively it seemed to make perfect sense.


 It's not only that, but it's knowing (and accepting) that going to the post office will take an inordinate amount of time. Every so months I have to send something for work by post and I have no idea why it takes so long, but it takes ages. The people serving are slow and the systems in place for doing everything from buying a stamp to collecting a parcel are slow. I won't pretend it doesn't frustrate me and that I enjoy my post office time, where I rarely chat to anyone BTW, but I accept it as part of Spain.
It reminds me of my first experience of Spain, living in Catalonia. I soon realised that there was no point in saying "I'm just going to nip the the shop". No "nipping" involved. A queue of people buying every part of a pig you could imagine with the butcher asking about every member of the household you could imagine!!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

I haven't been into the post office to buy a stamp or post a letter in years, since I discovered that the lady who runs the estanco would weigh the letter, sell me the stamp(s) and even stick them on for me! Our post office used to be terrible when we first came here, but improved a lot when they introduced the numbered ticket system to direct you to a particular desk depending on what type of service you want.


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## Hepa (Apr 2, 2018)

Pesky Wesky said:


> So
> 
> 
> 
> I am of the opinion that a lot of "guiris" in Spain rely on Amazon etc to send them things


We have no choice, many will not supply us with the goods once they realise we want them sent to the Canary Islands.

The "godos" on the Iberian peninsular are unaware that there are two more provinces out in the Atlantic.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> I haven't been into the post office to buy a stamp or post a letter in years, since I discovered that the lady who runs the estanco would weigh the letter, sell me the stamp(s) and even stick them on for me! Our post office used to be terrible when we first came here, but improved a lot when they introduced the numbered ticket system to direct you to a particular desk depending on what type of service you want.


That's what I used to do, or weigh it at home and tell them what the letter weighs, but now they won't do it and tell me to go to the PO. I think it's because they only have stamps for standard weights and in Spain now as there's no need to have all the stamps they used to carry -so few people sending stuff nowadays. My post is not standard weight or is to the UK (I send my dad postcards) and they don't have stamps for those any more.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Hepa said:


> We have no choice, many will not supply us with the goods once they realise we want them sent to the Canary Islands.
> 
> The "godos" on the Iberian peninsular are unaware that there are two more provinces out in the Atlantic.


Yep, the Canaries are always a case apart and it's something you have to get used to I guess when living there. Gives you something you can all grumble about together I guess, just like the Catalans and the Basques complain about "Madrid"!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> I haven't been into the post office to buy a stamp or post a letter in years, since I discovered that the lady who runs the estanco would weigh the letter, sell me the stamp(s) and even stick them on for me! Our post office used to be terrible when we first came here, but improved a lot when they introduced the numbered ticket system to direct you to a particular desk depending on what type of service you want.


I get stamps from the estancy too but sometimes need to collect packages or mail things that won't fit in the postbox.

I love the idea of a post office with more than one desk! We just have Noelia, she works her socks off but spends half her time wrestling with online systems that don't work properly. By law she has to have a mid-morning break, so occasionally there's note on the door saying back in 15 minutes, but no indication of what time she went....


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Alcalaina said:


> I get stamps from the estancy too but sometimes need to collect packages or mail things that won't fit in the postbox.
> 
> I love the idea of a post office with more than one desk! We just have Noelia, she works her socks off but spends half her time wrestling with online systems that don't work properly. By law she has to have a mid-morning break, so occasionally there's note on the door saying back in 15 minutes, but no indication of what time she went....


I guess that's one advantage of living in a large town. Our post office has had a very modern makeover and if there's a long queue (mysteriously sometimes it's empty and other times really full) at least there is seating so you can wait in comfort. We tend only to go in nowadays if we have a parcel or certified letter to collect (although I have been in to pay someone else's electricity bill, and it was much quicker than waiting in the bank!).

I prefer ours to the ones I've been in in recent years in the UK where you have to stand in a (long) queue in those roped off lines with a very annoying recorded voice saying "Cashier Number One please", "Cashier Number Five please", "Cashier Number Three please" every few seconds. That drives me mad.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Lynn R said:


> I prefer ours to the ones I've been in in recent years in the UK where you have to stand in a (long) queue in those roped off lines with a very annoying recorded voice saying "Cashier Number One please", "Cashier Number Five please", "Cashier Number Three please" every few seconds. That drives me mad.


At least if it is every few seconds, they are getting a move on, usually I've found it is roughly five minutes between each customer going out.

One thing I find annoying here in Spain is the post office no longer sells stamps, they just frank everything. How can I post anything in the few postboxes that we have, if I can't buy a stamp:?


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## andyviola (Aug 11, 2018)

Tricky to stay relaxed when police refusing an appointment to get an NIE to enable us to purchase a property that we have already signed contract for. Was surprised this part of the process so hard...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

andyviola said:


> Tricky to stay relaxed when police refusing an appointment to get an NIE to enable us to purchase a property that we have already signed contract for. Was surprised this part of the process so hard...


Refusing?


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

baldilocks said:


> At least if it is every few seconds, they are getting a move on, usually I've found it is roughly five minutes between each customer going out.
> 
> One thing I find annoying here in Spain is the post office no longer sells stamps, they just frank everything. How can I post anything in the few postboxes that we have, if I can't buy a stamp:?


Estancos sell stamps. If you have some scales, you can work out the required value from the chart on the Correos website.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> Estancos sell stamps. If you have some scales, you can work out the required value from the chart on the Correos website.


Estancos and post boxes are farther away than the PO so, apart from out of hours, there is no advantage here.


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

baldilocks said:


> Since we seem to have thread-drift and are now looking at the general Spanish attitude to efficiency which seems to upset so many people, we need top consider why people here tend to live longer. Many cite the Spanish diet but much more important is their attitude and the fact that they don't going banging their heads against a brick wall trying to get things done before they are due to be done - the so-called 'mañana attitude.'
> 
> *We are relaxed and get prompt service because we don't get all uptight.* Others, we have observed, start ranting and raving and are still waiting when we have left. Relax!


Northern Europeans in particular tend not to realise there is a certain etiquette that goes down well. Be first with your Hola- buenos dias etc., and you'll find you'll often get the prompt service. For example if you do it right, you'll always get a coffee or beer served up quicker in a Madrid cafe-bar than a London equivalent - and by a big margin. You just have to make sure you communicate verbally. Same with the shop queue - if you ask who's last in the queue, you'll know who to follow. The Brit version of physically forming a queue isn't adherred to.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

webmarcos said:


> *Northern Europeans in particular tend not to realise there is a certain etiquette that goes down well*. Be first with your Hola- buenos dias etc., and you'll find you'll often get the prompt service. For example if you do it right, you'll always get a coffee or beer served up quicker in a Madrid cafe-bar than a London equivalent - and by a big margin. You just have to make sure you communicate verbally. Same with the shop queue - if you ask who's last in the queue, you'll know who to follow. The Brit version of physically forming a queue isn't adherred to.


Quite, and when somebody greets you, don't just ignore them and walk away, respond likewise.


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## AlexNYC (Aug 2, 2017)

I love your handle "SeñorGringo" LOL

I feel sorry for everything you went through and I will make sure i DON'T ORDER ANYTHING. I bought a place in Valencia but haven't moved yet. Getting married soon to a Spaniard and will be moving there as soon as I can.

I would love to have American friends in Valencia... How can we connect? Is there a place where expats gather?

you can write me at my name dot ES

Alex Prada


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## skip o (Aug 1, 2011)

Many of the shipping companies lie and claim that they tried to deliver a package to me even though I am home all day and know no one ever rang my buzzer. FedEx has lied the most.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

skip o said:


> Many of the shipping companies lie and claim that they tried to deliver a package to me even though I am home all day and know no one ever rang my buzzer. FedEx has lied the most.


Here it is mostly ASM and Tourline. It doesn't help that the people who farm out the work (based on cost, of course) add their own label which is sometimes not accurate and the driver works on that label and not the shipper's. I have just that that problem twice in the last week.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

skip o said:


> Many of the shipping companies lie and claim that they tried to deliver a package to me even though I am home all day and know no one ever rang my buzzer. FedEx has lied the most.


We get that a lot too, with Correos Express. If they run out of time (or are just being lazy) they leave the package at the post office and I have to go and pick it up. But I still get an automated email saying it's been delivered to my house!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Alcalaina said:


> We get that a lot too, with Correos Express. If they run out of time (or are just being lazy) they leave the package at the post office and I have to go and pick it up. But I still get an automated email saying it's been delivered to my house!


Correo Express excelled themselves this week. They actually delivered our package to an address several streets away! The occupant took it to the Correos, who rang us to say it was there and could we pick it up. Shortly after that, the postwoman delivered it to us!


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## skip o (Aug 1, 2011)

I have been using https://www.citypaq.es/index.html for deliveries lately. Basically, you create a citypaq account, pick where you want your packages held (usually a fridge sized yellow box with a few small doors on it in grocery stores or metro stations) and fill out your return address with a funky ID next to your name. Like "QWE123 John Doe." The package gets delivered to the pick up location and I can pick it up whenever I want. I get email notifications when it is ready to be picked up too. It's like a PO Box but it is free, so far. I think Correos operates it.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

This was a worry when we first moved here, stories about companies not delivering to the campo, couriers not delivering 

Hand on heart we’ve had no issues, all our furniture including white goods have been delivered 9km down two tracks, never had any issues. Courier delivers to post office or garage. Always let me know when the goods have been dropped off 

I always make a note on any delivery instructions to say post office only open between 8.30 and 9,45. Garage closed between 2-5. Never lost a delivery..... yet!


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

Always make sure your mobile number is inc in the address so the driver can call you if needs be (IMO)


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

skip o said:


> I have been using https://www.citypaq.es/index.html for deliveries lately. Basically, you create a citypaq account, pick where you want your packages held (usually a fridge sized yellow box with a few small doors on it in grocery stores or metro stations) and fill out your return address with a funky ID next to your name. Like "QWE123 John Doe." The package gets delivered to the pick up location and I can pick it up whenever I want. I get email notifications when it is ready to be picked up too. It's like a PO Box but it is free, so far. I think Correos operates it.


But you have to buy at an associated shop, don't you? It's no good for Mango, Amazon...


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> But you have to buy at an associated shop, don't you? It's no good for Mango, Amazon...


and no good if you live in a village that is 75km from the main town.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

baldilocks said:


> and no good if you live in a village that is 75km from the main town.


No, but I live 30kms from Madrid for example and there are 4 in my town. They seem to be widely distributed, but I don't think the shops it services is a very wide range from what I can make out


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> I'm in Vélez-Málaga actually, about 30km East of Málaga.
> 
> The washing machine spares company was in Zaragoza, by the way, and the shoe shop in Nerja.
> 
> ...


Yes, much appreciated. In Merc Central in VLC city they round down. I now give back the odd 1-2-3 centimos if I'm given them.

The attitude to time is rather wearysome. The woman serving at my Consum deli counter served a customer and then, rather than serve me, the only other customer waiting, she decided to tidy up her stack of salchicones. 

There was a row of 6 or 8 of these, stacked two deep. The ones at the ends kept rolling off. She persisted. She rearranged them all. The ones on the ends _kept_ rolling off .... Eventually they all stayed put and I was served with smiles.

I have spent enough time in India to know that patience is the only way. Getting salty meets with incomprehension, mild schock and may turn the atmosphere sour.

However, I was prompted to make a comment at the RENFE ticket office last week. The 3 windows in Estación del Nord were only selling ticket for travel that day, despite there being 6 or 8 ticket machines. For advanced tickets I was directed to the other terminus at Joaquín Sorolla. This involves using the transfer bus.

There are no machines at J. Sorolla. You must queue. The ticket I got for queueing was in the 130s. The person being served was +/- #85. At the advance travel desk were 4 elderly ladies, one on a seat. That, I realised, meant trouble. Sure enough, they spent 35 minutes getting their tickets. I was given a ticket +/- 105 by someone who couldn't wait any longer. Fortunately, most of the 90s had made the same decision and left. 

Precisely 60 minutes after entering the ticket office I was served. I mentioned this and that I was only there because the RENFE online ticketing system was, with online apologies, U/S. The man apologised for both - staff cuts [in Spain!?] and many complaints by customers about the website being down.

The point is that in Spain, there is very little appreciation that people may well have better things to do - necessary things - urgent things, perhaps - than wait while the salchichon display is rearranged.

My gestora has never been less than 45 minutes late for any appointment.


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## skip o (Aug 1, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> But you have to buy at an associated shop, don't you? It's no good for Mango, Amazon...


I have used it for Amazon orders. I don't think if there are any restrictions on where the package comes from.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

OH got a shock today when he returned home and found a delivery driver trying to throw a parcel onto the roof terrace! They had a chat and it turns out the poor guy is on a zero hours contract, classified as self-employed. He gets his list first thing in the morning and if they don't all get delivered on the same day he is fined or could even lose the contract, so often works far more hours than he's supposed to. On the other hand if there are no deliveries he doesn't get paid. I suppose it's the same everywhere, but I'll be a bit more sympathetic from now on!


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## chrisnation (Mar 2, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> OH got a shock today when he returned home and found a delivery driver trying to throw a parcel onto the roof terrace! They had a chat and it turns out the poor guy is on a zero hours contract, classified as self-employed. He gets his list first thing in the morning and if they don't all get delivered on the same day he is fined or could even lose the contract, so often works far more hours than he's supposed to. On the other hand if there are no deliveries he doesn't get paid. I suppose it's the same everywhere, but I'll be a bit more sympathetic from now on!



Quite so. I've done a bit of the dreaded multi-drop in UK, for my sins. It's hell - literally - on wheels. 

The worst was a company that specialises in deliveries to building projects. The problem with those is the addresses/postcodes are not often any use. A huge muddy patch somewhere.... I only did one day for them. There was stuff still on the truck at the end of the day. They called my agency and I was 'sacked'. I was very pleased!

DHL was tough but you could just make it if you really hammered round. 

All my agency's clients were industrial - no domestic deliveries - so I was never met at the door by a woman in a negligée ... Well, it happens on TV


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

skip o said:


> I have used it for Amazon orders. I don't think if there are any restrictions on where the package comes from.


Soo how do you do it?


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## skip o (Aug 1, 2011)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Soo how do you do it?


The citypaq.es website explains everything. Once I had an account created, I use a special numeral&number ID in front of my name as my mailing address for anything.

QWE123 Skip O
987 Some street address that I chose on Citypaq*
Barcelona, Spain

*the address I use is for a Carrefour which has the yellow Citypaq boxes in the front of the store.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Just a positive note. A package containing a guitar support from Canada (less than half a kilo sent with invoice (27$) clearly visible, by airmail) arrived inside 5 days door to door 

ps: I was asked again today here in Flamencoland why I buy US guitar strings. It is where they make them. And I buy them direct from the US at half the price they cost in Spain. Yet all 5 of my guitars were made in Spain.

Even Andrés Segovia insisted on US strings and I assume in his times Spain did produce strings. 

Funny old world


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

Ive been reading this thread with smiles.

I ship stuff all over the world and I find that shipping to Cananda and certain parts of Africa are nightmares to ship to. As well as Italy. 

Canada from the UK tracked can take 2-3 months. I find the customs people the worst to deal with. 
The packet to italy 6 weeks ago is sitting in a holding room because its supposedly 'damaged' but neither myself or my customer can get any other information.

Anyway there are 'parcel shops' in most towns, there is one in Albir who has a row of postboxes in the shop. For a modest fee one can rent a box and get goods dropped off there. 

We only have a small box in the lobby of the apartment block and parcels don't get delivered. 
So when we move over permanently next year I will be renting one of these.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Barriej said:


> *Canada from the UK tracked *can take 2-3 months.


Barriej I expected you saw my comment above about non express plain old mail getting there faster than tracked, expressed, super, ...... delivery. Be interested to know if you have noticed that in your experience? 

Cheers


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## Barriej (Jul 23, 2012)

nigele2 said:


> Barriej I expected you saw my comment above about non express plain old mail getting there faster than tracked, expressed, super, ...... delivery. Be interested to know if you have noticed that in your experience?
> 
> Cheers


Yep. And its true.

My wife sent our daughter a birthday card to Australia by normal post and it got there in 5 working days.
Her birth certificate for her visa went tracked and took 3 weeks. 
Go figure.

There is a way to speed up international deliveries and this actually works.

What you do after you have sent any letter etc tracked to any country. Go to that countries postal service web site and sign up for updates. And then try to track your letter. For some reason because you are now 'in the system' your letters seem to be processed faster.

Did this with the US, Canada, Aus and a couple of Caribbean islands and it seems to work (or I sent stuff when they weren't busy)


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

chrisnation said:


> The point is that in Spain, there is very little appreciation that people may well have better things to do - necessary things - urgent things, perhaps - than wait while the salchichon display is rearranged.
> 
> My gestora has never been less than 45 minutes late for any appointment.


Well made point chrisnation IMHO.

I don't know why this situation is not seen as serious in Spain. It certainly harms businesses and reduces investment. And thus fuels poverty.

Some may argue that countries like Japan (if such things exist beyond Japan itself ) where they apologize for a train being one minute late (it is true, I have seen it while sitting on the platform where there were trains every 3 minutes) are too far the other way. But surely the issues are obvious?

It is although productivity and the economy are way less important than that pile of sausages 

ps: I understand why the retired and the tourists like these quaint customs. Maybe one queue for people who have things to do and one for those with time to kill?


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## skip o (Aug 1, 2011)

nigele2 said:


> I don't know why this situation is not seen as serious in Spain. It certainly harms businesses and reduces investment. And thus fuels poverty.


I agree. There are so many bad business practices in Spain ,which I think has a big hand in why Spain has such high unemployment compared to other European countries. I often find it hard to spend money locally, and resign myself to ordering online. The siesta, the lack of posted hours, the lack of adhering to hours if they are posted, the long wait times, how often some businesses seem annoyed that I am trying to give them my money, etc. It's no surprise that with some businesses relocating from the UK to other EU countries due to Brexit, very few choose Spain. 

I have a friend who works for a global consulting firm and he is literally in a different country about every other day working with businesses who are looking to be more efficient & profitable. The only time he has ever been to Spain was for a company retreat in Barcelona.


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## expat16 (Jun 11, 2016)

skip o said:


> I agree. There are so many bad business practices in Spain ,which I think has a big hand in why Spain has such high unemployment compared to other European countries. I often find it hard to spend money locally, and resign myself to ordering online. The siesta, the lack of posted hours, the lack of adhering to hours if they are posted, the long wait times, how often some businesses seem annoyed that I am trying to give them my money, etc. It's no surprise that with some businesses relocating from the UK to other EU countries due to Brexit, very few choose Spain.
> 
> I have a friend who works for a global consulting firm and he is literally in a different country about every other day working with businesses who are looking to be more efficient & profitable. The only time he has ever been to Spain was for a company retreat in Barcelona.


Wow I'm surprised by your experience as you also seem live in Barcelona (like me). Having lived in several EU countries I find the UK and Spain to be the closest to US in customer service. 

I was really surprised for example with how fast my WiFi was installed etc. Only really hate that the supermarkets are closed on Sundays. 

I also think that because I spent so many years in a country with nightmarish customer service (netherlands) I am now easily impressed over here  

Also, Spain is not a small country and it is certainly not entirely urban, so I imagine that things are run differently in the more rural areas (as would be in the rural US I've seen)...but here in Barcelona to me things have been commensurate with what I'd expect of a city this size - barring the Sunday shopping!


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> Just a positive note. A package containing a guitar support from Canada (less than half a kilo sent with invoice (27$) clearly visible, by airmail) arrived inside 5 days door to door
> 
> ps: I was asked again today here in Flamencoland why I buy US guitar strings. It is where they make them. And I buy them direct from the US at half the price they cost in Spain. Yet all 5 of my guitars were made in Spain.
> 
> ...


Have you tried MultiSon in Chiclana? They sell a range of imported strings and other guitar related stuff. OH (who has just built his tenth guitar) uses them a lot.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> Have you tried MultiSon in Chiclana? They sell a range of imported strings and other guitar related stuff. OH (who has just built his tenth guitar) uses them a lot.


Alcalaina thanks for that. If someone needed a single string in an emergency it is good to know they exist. They have a wide range of single strings.

But I wouldn't use them for 2 reasons:

Nine sets of D'addario standard strings cost 150 Euros. From the US 77 Euros - same strings. [both incl. tax and delivery]
They say they stock my favourite strings, and offer a delivery date (Tuesday), but they offer no price and you cannot add them to your cart.

But they seem about average for a Spanish supplier and as I said, to offer such a wide range of single strings is unusual. [It's odd, some players break more of either the 3rd, 4th or 6th strings than others. But to be fair you'd probably change all three treble or all three bass strings, if not them all. And the single string prices are high of course] 

A luthier in the family must be fun. Although many dedicated hours of work of course. Does your OH sell them and/or make guitars to order? I quite often get asked for Luthiers in this part of the world by people visiting from other lands. They hope to pick up not only a bargain but something authentic. That said as you may well know the market is pretty dead at the moment. (Should say I'm talking flamenco. Perhaps he is into other types).


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

nigele2 said:


> A luthier in the family must be fun. Although many dedicated hours of work of course. Does your OH sell them and/or make guitars to order? I quite often get asked for Luthiers in this part of the world by people visiting from other lands. They hope to pick up not only a bargain but something authentic. That said as you may well know the market is pretty dead at the moment. (Should say I'm talking flamenco. Perhaps he is into other types).


He isn't a luthier, it's just a hobby. He plays all sorts of styles, except classical or heavy rock. Folk, blues, ragtime, Irish trad ... He's currently doing an online jazz course at UCSF, using an electric Ibanez. He tried flamenco for a while but got "tennis elbow" from practising too long! So his flamenco guitar hasn't been touched for years sadly. He has an old Martin which is my personal favourite, an even older Strat and various copies that he's made from kits.

There is a luthier in Alcalá, Kiko Diaz, but I can't vouch for the quality.


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## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Alcalaina said:


> He isn't a luthier, it's just a hobby.


He's made 10 guitars --- and that's a hobby!! And so many genres -- Respect 

Yeah tennis elbow is a bind. I have a warm up, warm down regime when I play to keep it at bay. But still have problems.

Never heard Kiko mentioned but I'll investigate. There is nothing like having a Luthier make a guitar for you (well beyond what your OH does but that takes talent and patience not many have ). Cheers


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