# Healthcare in South Africa varies from the excellent to very poor, expats warned



## Editor (Aug 20, 2009)

Interest in living and working in South Africa has increased on the back of the country’s successful hosting of the football World Cup but potential expats are being warned that the health care can be diverse.Too many people assume wrongly that the healthcare system in South Africa is on par with the NHS in the [...]

Click to read the full news article: Healthcare in South Africa varies from the excellent to very poor, expats warned...
Please come back to discuss the story here in this thread.


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## Thatch22 (Aug 12, 2009)

*Health care in SA*

Health Care in Sa is excellent! You must have an health care insurance, or pay everything your self.
With most (big) companies you are taking part of a healtcare system and pay every month an amount.
We have here very good privat hospitals, whith a hight level of health care. And at the moment they are not on strike. Only the State hospitals are.
If you are living in the city or big estate, the water form the tap is no prblem. Rural aera's are different.
Also HIV is big, so potect your self.
No other injection are needed is you do going to live in a township or rural place. If you going to work in those area's yes you need all the medical prevention.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Rephrase : Healthcare is "good" provided you have the money.

(and don't hold your breath about how long - if you fall down in the street - you get picked up by whatever is available) - Buyer beware!


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Thatch22 said:


> Health Care in Sa is excellent! You must have an health care insurance, or pay everything your self.
> With most (big) companies you are taking part of a healtcare system and pay every month an amount.
> We have here very good privat hospitals, whith a hight level of health care. And at the moment they are not on strike. Only the State hospitals are.
> If you are living in the city or big estate, the water form the tap is no prblem. Rural aera's are different.
> ...


Thatch, the OP stated that they would be visiting other African countries.

without a certificate stating that you had recieved certain injections, you will NOT BE ALLOWED BACK INTO SA.
Yellow fever is one particular one.
If you have NOT had the yellow fever innoculation then you will wait at OR Tambo until a doctor can be found and you will PAY for it.


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## Thatch22 (Aug 12, 2009)

Daxk said:


> Thatch, the OP stated that they would be visiting other African countries.
> 
> without a certificate stating that you had recieved certain injections, you will NOT BE ALLOWED BACK INTO SA.
> Yellow fever is one particular one.
> If you have NOT had the yellow fever innoculation then you will wait at OR Tambo until a doctor can be found and you will PAY for it.


You only need Yellow fever, when you have visit a Yellow fever country like Kenya and Mozambique.
But they can aski their travel clinic, before they go, that is much better then this forum!:juggle:
I was just telling them about South Africa's health care, which is excellent!


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Thatch22 said:


> I was just telling them about South Africa's health care, which is excellent!


If you can afford it.


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## vegasboy (Apr 28, 2010)

As said in previous posts, private health care is good, very good, for NOW. See the thread http://www.expatforum.com/expats/south-africa-expat-forum-expats-living-south-africa/51579-new-national-health-insurance-nhi-will-hijack-private-hospitals.html 

Private and state hospitals will integrate, sooner or later. And the culture of strikes and abandoning of children in state hospitals will spill over to the private hospitals.

"When nurses at the Natalspruit Hospital near Johannesburg joined the strike, they left 53 premature babies unfed and unattended for a full day. Enter Netcare, the country’s biggest private hospital group, whose paramedics garnered an admiring press for spending a night transferring the children to two of its upmarket hospitals" South Africa’s striking nurses open door for private healthcare | beyondbrics | FT.com

We still have some of the best trained (and dedicated) doctors and nurses, but for how long? The new NHI will be the last straw for many doctors. From the link above: "The (NHI) system would probably oblige private hospitals to lend assistance in some form – something which could drag down their standards as they struggle to help a public sector “in disarray”, the Institute of Race Relations warned recently." And this my friend, is an understatement.

When private hospitals are forced (through contracts and the state control of health insurance) to serve ALL state patients in catchment areas, it will be chaos, regardless of where you live! These private hospitals currently serve 7 million of the 50 million population. Do the math.


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## marieannetta (Mar 22, 2010)

Quite a lot of worry was expressed around BEE too. But, it turned out not to be as devastating as originally thought.

The new NHI is being mooted by Netcare, one of SA's largest privately owned hospital chains, as challenging, but not impossible.
Netcare Expresses Support for NHI - InsuranceJunction.co.za

If you come to SA you have to contribute to a medical aid fund - there is no other way.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

I think that is an understatement - "Frog in a pot comes to mind" - Its amazing what South Africans have got used to.

I'm also amazed that a Zimbo can't see it when they have gone through this all this before.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Halo said:


> I think that is an understatement - "Frog in a pot comes to mind" - Its amazing what South Africans have got used to.
> 
> I'm also amazed that a Zimbo can't see it when they have gone through this all this before.


Sorry if this is a hijack, but may I ask you Halo, why are you so against South Africa. I notice you are an ex-pat from the UK living in Oz. What are your ties with SA and why do you feel the need to be so negative about this country? Not trying to start a fight, I am just very curious.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Johanna said:


> Sorry if this is a hijack, but may I ask you Halo, why are you so against South Africa. I notice you are an ex-pat from the UK living in Oz. What are your ties with SA and why do you feel the need to be so negative about this country? Not trying to start a fight, I am just very curious.


I spend about 20 years there - I am not against SA - I am against what its becoming. It not negativity - its reality...... Sitting in a corner chanting "I'm going to win the lottery" will not make it a reality.

I understand Africa - you obviously don't.
(or you have just accepted the reality of the situation and are prepared to live with it)


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

Would not say he is negative... maybe like many fedup of having the "rainbow nation, keep smiling no matter what" outlook / propaganda force onto from every side.

Really, what else is Netcare going to do or say... simple highschool economics apply here... the 2-3 million who pay for better medical attention have 2 choices and 2 choices only...
1: Keep paying the same rate but now support 50 million and get a rubbish service.
2: Huge increase in rates to SUPPORT for the 50 million and still get a service that is not what it was no mater how much you pay. For the simple reason we don't have the medical staff nor the medical equipment to cater for the whole population. It would take hundreds of billions of rands to have anything even approaching the NHS... who is going to foot the bill? Netcare.... er, no. Government... er, no. It is either going to be the 2-3 million tax payers directly or the 2-3 million tax payers indirectly when they go cap in hand to the World Bank.

As the saying goes wealth cannot be created by dividing it. The same applies to the medical infrastructure.


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Halo said:


> I spend about 20 years there - I am not against SA - I am against what its becoming. It not negativity - its reality...... Sitting in a corner chanting "I'm going to win the lottery" will not make it a reality.
> 
> I understand Africa - you obviously don't.
> (or you have just accepted the reality of the situation and are prepared to live with it)


I have spent most of my life year, spent only 11 years in the UK...... I think I understand Africa and yes, one has reason to worry that SA will go the same route as other African countries. On the other hand, SA and a number of other African countries are drawing investment from Europe, the USA and of course India, China etc.

Thanks for your reply!


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Johanna said:


> I have spent most of my life year, spent only 11 years in the UK...... I think I understand Africa and yes, one has reason to worry that SA will go the same route as other African countries. On the other hand, SA and a number of other African countries are drawing investment from Europe, the USA and of course India, China etc.
> 
> Thanks for your reply!


While I struggle to derive anything from your paragraph - I feel you yourself are unsure as to what you are trying to say. (or don't understand Economics 101)


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Halo said:


> While I struggle to derive anything from your paragraph - I feel you yourself are unsure as to what you are trying to say. (or don't understand Economics 101)


Oops, did not read what I was typing, apologies!
I have spen*t* most of my life *here* (not year ... )

South Africa's economy ( strangely enough) seems to be on a healthier footing than that of Europe.... that is what I was trying to say.


.... and you are correct, I did not pass Economy as I did not study economy at University!


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

LOL, and I thought I was the typo king 

On what do you base the "seems to be" - Perhaps its the 40% unemployment rate?


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

Halo said:


> LOL, and I thought I was the typo king
> 
> On what do you base the "seems to be" - Perhaps its the 40% unemployment rate?


Nope, I listen to financial reports ( I am not a huge TV fan and love listening to the radio whilst sitting at computer...)

The bank rate decreased by another 50 base points here yesterday, still a long way to go before it reaches the very low interest rate of the UK.

According to all the financial guru's there is a lot of investment from Europe,USA, Canada, Oz etc in SA ( and other upcoming economies like the BRIC countries)

Glad we can now converse properly!


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Talk is cheap... when I see unemployment, crime and cost of living going down we can talk again. I am not a gambling man so putting money, time or effort in South Africa is something I couldn't entertain when there are so many better places to be.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Did I forget a good public health system..... O, yes - I did.


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

Halo said:


> Talk is cheap... when I see unemployment, crime and cost of living going down we can talk again. I am not a gambling man so putting money, time or effort in South Africa is something I couldn't entertain when there are so many better places to be.


Violent crime has gone down just about every single year since 1994. Again last year murder is down 8.6 since the year before. South African economy is far out performing europe the past 15 years. Including the past year.


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Therooster said:


> Violent crime has gone down just about every single year since 1994. Again last year murder is down 8.6 since the year before. South African economy is far out performing europe the past 15 years. Including the past year.


1. If you believe the stats
2. 10% of loads is still loads - Europe's crime is pretty stable.


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

Rooster,

Keep living the dream... yes we have finally dipped below the 18000 murders a year... Utopia!! We only have to keep doing this for another 15-16 straight years and then we will on par with Europe.

Now I can sleep peacefully tonight. This being a healthcare thread and all please take somewhere else.


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

zambezi.king said:


> Rooster,
> 
> Keep living the dream... yes we have finally dipped below the 18000 murders a year... Utopia!! We only have to keep doing this for another 15-16 straight years and then we will on par with Europe.
> 
> Now I can sleep peacefully tonight. This being a healthcare thread and all please take somewhere else.


16 800. 

It was 27000 at one stage. And 10 million less people. It's down by half.


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

The Julius Malema school of Mathemetics and statistical studies. LOL!


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

play nice you guys please!!! Try to keep it sensible and informative

Jo xx


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

jojo said:


> play nice you guys please!!! Try to keep it sensible and informative
> 
> Jo xx


Thanks JoJo. Just beware your forum here has been infiltrated with people with no agenda to give informative or objective advice. Their agenda is neo political and devisive and based on being alarmist and scaremongering. It's highly based on their views of wanting a black government to be seen as "failing". If you think I am wrong then why are the gross majority of comments from expats that actually live here very positive ?

Think about it.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Therooster said:


> Thanks JoJo. Just beware your forum here has been infiltrated with people with no agenda to give informative or objective advice. Their agenda is neo political and devisive and based on being alarmist and scaremongering. It's highly based on their views of wanting a black government to be seen as "failing". If you think I am wrong then why are the gross majority of comments from expats that actually live here very positive ?
> 
> Think about it.


I dont know, I'm not political. All I know is that its not very nice or very useful to get too angry about it all on here - or anywhere else!! Lifes too short! 

Jo xxxx


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

jojo said:


> I dont know, I'm not political. All I know is that its not very nice or very useful to get too angry about it all on here - or anywhere else!! Lifes too short!
> 
> Jo xxxx


Agreed. But if I am not here to balance what these guys are saying, people are going to get a very skewed perception of South Africa. My only request is they ask other people who have moved here. Don't rely on the views of these politically motivated brainwashed neo racists. Don't listen to me , just listen to your own country men who have moved here. If it's so bad they can tell you and you know it's true because they have no investment is wanting the black government to fail. Does that sounds unreasonable ?


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

Which page of chairman Mao's book does that come from... you have shown your true self on many occassions... you just can't help yourself.

About your warning to JoJo... I would say someting along the lines of the pot calling the kettle black, but you would probably think I am a white racist.


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

zambezi.king said:


> Which page of chairman Mao's book does that come from... you have shown your true self on many occassions... you just can't help yourself.
> 
> About your warning to JoJo... I would say someting along the lines of the pot calling the kettle black, but you would probably think I am a white racist.


Ok guys. All I am saying is this ..

Ask someone who has moved here from the U.K if it's as bad as they are saying.

If they say yes, then don't come.

If they say "No, not at all" (as they always do.)

The decide for yourself. 

But don't let your mind be made up by South Africans who hate their country because it's now run by black people.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

zambezi.king said:


> Which page of chairman Mao's book does that come from... you have shown your true self on many occassions... you just can't help yourself.
> 
> About your warning to JoJo... I would say someting along the lines of the pot calling the kettle black, but you would probably think I am a white racist.


Just calm down, you cant save south africa by arguing on a forum. So please agree to disagree!! I personally dont understand any of the problems in south africa. The nearest my knowledge goes is that "wild at heart" was filmed there!

Jo xx


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

jojo said:


> Just calm down, you cant save south africa by arguing on a forum. So please agree to disagree!! I personally dont understand any of the problems in south africa. The nearest my knowledge goes is that "wild at heart" was filmed there!
> 
> Jo xx


They have no intention to save south Africa. Not while black people are in charge. They will only be happy if it burns. They made up their minds long before a black government was in charge that it would suck. The reality is most people who live here are loving it. So I am just trying to warn people against the "glass is half full" afro pessimists.


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

Don't you mean the "glass is half EMPTY".

Yip we have a different point of view, therefore we must racists. Sleep well comrade.


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

zambezi.king said:


> Don't you mean the "glass is half EMPTY".
> 
> Yip we have a different point of view, therefore we must racists. Sleep well comrade.


Dude, you can fool these foriengers perhaps. But don't try fool a fellow South African. I live here. I know it's not as scary as you and Daxk try pretend it is. So spare me.

You and me both know how badly you're overstating the problem an expat will face here by trying to use stats that affect the poorest of the poor and pretend that's a problem they are walking into.


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## zambezi.king (Oct 8, 2009)

Keep it up Rooster, you bring them in and I'll just warn them to be careful. If they think I'm full of it then great, good luck. My conscience is clear... I'm sure the truth for anyone who really wants to come here lies somewhere between my supposed racist view and your rose coloured fantasy world.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Is this forum a snap shot of how folks get on with one another in South Africa??

Jo xxx


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

jojo said:


> Is this forum a snap shot of how folks get on with one another in South Africa??
> 
> Jo xxx


Not really... its more complicated. Many in Saffars (or immigrants who can never leave as things are now to expensive abroad) big up the "good" news as most are stuck and its hard to focus on all the current problems.

There are many camps in SA but only one reality which is there for all to see if they look close enough.


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## dizzyizzy (Mar 30, 2008)

People, calm down. Personal aggressions are not tolerated here (please read forum rules). Obviously your discussions are going nowhere and you will just have to agree to disagree. This is is becoming a "I am right, you are wrong" drama and is totally pointless, boring except for the people involved, and is flooding the forum with clutter. You all have expressed your opinions, so chill now. If this continues, all these threads will be closed down and infractions will be given. Stop it now.


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## Therooster (Jul 1, 2010)

dizzyizzy said:


> People, calm down. Personal aggressions are not tolerated here (please read forum rules). Obviously your discussions are going nowhere and you will just have to agree to disagree. This is is becoming a "I am right, you are wrong" drama and is totally pointless, boring except for the people involved, and is flooding the forum with clutter. You all have expressed your opinions, so chill now. If this continues, all these threads will be closed down and infractions will be given. Stop it now.


Fai enough. No more personal stuff. And I do think people have the right to be informed. But I don't think things need to be overstated and the forum loaded with a handful of individuals trying to hijack it and bully their alarmist perspective into anyone who comes here. 

My final word is please ask someone who has moved here and lives here and they can tell you the reality on the ground. Just be very wary of certain older generation South Africans whose presence here is more political than anything to do with moving to South Africa.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

I'll answer this publicly so that you all know


it is against forum rules to personally insult another member



> # Expatforum.com is an interactive site. Please treat others here the way you wish to be treated, with respect, and without insult or personal attack. Personal attacks will NOT be tolerated. Trolling on this site is not tolerated, that being deliberately inflammatory posts, and trolls will be removed from the site immediately.
> 
> # Sexually explicit, racist, obscene or vulgar language, graphics or behaviour is NOT acceptable on this site. Should anyone use inappropriate language, engage in a personal attack, or use hate speech, their posting rights will be revoked immediately. In the same way, links to adult content, pages with links to adult content, near adult content, hate sites or messages describing anything against the law is not allowed and will be removed.


I suggest you all read the rest here

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/general-expat-discussions/2397-forum-rules.html


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

Can you please show me where this occurred? 
I am not know for that - Taking people up when they are untruthful, perhaps.... but insults.... Mmmmmmmmmm


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Halo said:


> Can you please show me where this occurred?
> I am not know for that - Taking people up when they are untruthful, perhaps.... but insults.... Mmmmmmmmmm


 a lot of the insulting posts have now been deleted




:focus:

or the thread will be closed


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## Halo (May 8, 2008)

xabiachica said:


> a lot of the insulting posts have now been deleted
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some of my post have been deleted... I would like to know why.


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## dizzyizzy (Mar 30, 2008)

Not only yours but from other posters as well. Read the forum rules and stick to them please. And if you have any issues with the way the forum is moderated, contact the admin directly, link on the top of the page.


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## marieannetta (Mar 22, 2010)

Medi Care Corporation (MCC) is also engaging the government over the new NHI. The MCC even has an NHI link on their website Medi-Clinic Southern Africa

So very large listed companies are engaging with government over the issue. Also most of the senior members of the ruling party, and their families, do not use the public heath system, they rather pay for private health facilities. 

Most middle income South Africans earning between R15k to 30K a month go for a hospital plan(HP) - to cover emergencies, and then pay for visits to the doctor or dentist.

There are several HP's plans to choose from. Hospital Plans in South Africa
If you are moving to SA, you'll most certainly get an HP to suit your family dynamics.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

dizzyizzy said:


> People, calm down. Personal aggressions are not tolerated here (please read forum rules). Obviously your discussions are going nowhere and you will just have to agree to disagree. This is is becoming a "I am right, you are wrong" drama and is totally pointless, boring except for the people involved, and is flooding the forum with clutter. You all have expressed your opinions, so chill now. If this continues, all these threads will be closed down and infractions will be given. Stop it now.



Well said Dizzy!!!!! Opinions have been expressed and disagreed with! There's nothing more to be said ! You cant change minds!! Now have you all finished discussing the merits (or not) of the health service??? As the topic title suggests!?

Jo


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