# How safe is gardens at night?



## martinagael (Jan 4, 2009)

Hi !!!

i need some help about the safety in Cape Town City at night, i'm moving to CT on the next Feb. with my family......lot of people are telling us that we are crazy because is one of the most unsafe places in the world and not very good for kids...i have some references but want to have more opinions, let me know yours, above all, what concern in safety in Kloof Street at night, because We are going to open a restaurant in Kloof street, what kind of precaution do you recomend me to take and also let me know how safe is the route from Kloof to Hout Bay at night also,we will be living in Hout Bay.

thank you


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

OK so you are movig to CT in a Months time, to open a business that deals in cash, has its doors open to anyone,stays open late at night, in an area that you profess to know nothing about?,
And you want to know how safe it is?

First question I would have asked when I did my look see and decide, is how many other restuarants there are? how many for sale? who the armed response Companies are and what is there advice? How many incidents have there been locally, garages, shops, etc.
but hey!


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## martinagael (Jan 4, 2009)

*hi*

Hi and thank you for your reply,
that's what i did, i've been 3 times this year before i decided and that's why i have some references but i want to have more opinions through this forum with the local people.
thanks!!


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## Martinw (Jan 2, 2009)

martinagael said:


> Hi and thank you for your reply,
> that's what i did, i've been 3 times this year before i decided and that's why i have some references but i want to have more opinions through this forum with the local people.
> thanks!!



Sorry I didnt quite understand that correctly. You have been there how many times, and you are still looking to go. I know this sounds very insensitive or something, but sometimes in these situations one has to be a bit harsh. DO you not care about your family's safety? Do you want to see your wife, daughter if you have one get raped? Go read up on rape and murder statistics in South Africa. Have you ever done any research on what goes on there? Do you think people are lying when they warn you how dangerous it is? Why would anyone want to choose to go and live in absolute fear in SA if you can come to AUS, NZ or Canada and literaaly have a stress free life worrying where to take the kids foir the holiday as your biggest headache. 
(SNIP)

Go visit thaqt website and look at the archive dates articles etc and then have a good think about how much you love your family and wahts best for therm. If you still think SA, then all I can say is may God be with you, beacuse you are really going have to pray everyday.
It sound very pesimistic and harsh, but when you are dealing with savages in that country full of hate there is no nice way of putting it.

And if you are planning to open up a restaurant surely you are not in financial difficulties so once again can not understand why in the world you would want to go .......your money away and exposing you and your family to sush violence and stress. Is that how you want to raise your children./ I sure hope not.


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## Sibella (Jul 20, 2008)

martinagael said:


> Hi !!!
> 
> i need some help about the safety in Cape Town City at night, i'm moving to CT on the next Feb. with my family......lot of people are telling us that we are crazy because is one of the most unsafe places in the world and not very good for kids...i have some references but want to have more opinions, let me know yours, above all, what concern in safety in Kloof Street at night, because We are going to open a restaurant in Kloof street, what kind of precaution do you recomend me to take and also let me know how safe is the route from Kloof to Hout Bay at night also,we will be living in Hout Bay.
> 
> thank you


Hi - Cape Town is beautiful and still reasonably safe. I would maybe invest in a security guard for the restaurant and make sure that your house is secure in Hout Bay. Lots of our family still live in Cape Town and they have a GREAT life. If you want crime figures for the area check out the saps website (google crime figures South Africa).

I'm not sure about the best driving route - it would be best to check with locals. Just lock your car doors, don't leave any valuables in eyes sight, try and take a different route each night and late at night approach a traffic light slowly so you don't need to stop. 

Cape Town is wonderful for kids, great beaches, bird park in Hout Bay, Aquarium at the Waterfront, there are also excellent schools in Cape Town. Yes, crime is high in South Africa, but most people just go on with their lives and they are fine. But just keep it in mind and be alert.


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## Martinw (Jan 2, 2009)

Sibella said:


> Hi - Cape Town is beautiful and still reasonably safe. I would maybe invest in a security guard for the restaurant and make sure that your house is secure in Hout Bay. Lots of our family still live in Cape Town and they have a GREAT life. If you want crime figures for the area check out the saps website (google crime figures South Africa).
> 
> I'm not sure about the best driving route - it would be best to check with locals. Just lock your car doors, don't leave any valuables in eyes sight, try and take a different route each night and late at night approach a traffic light slowly so you don't need to stop.
> 
> Cape Town is wonderful for kids, great beaches, bird park in Hout Bay, Aquarium at the Waterfront, there are also excellent schools in Cape Town. Yes, crime is high in South Africa, but most people just go on with their lives and they are fine. But just keep it in mind and be alert.


I am just wondering how the words "wonderful for kids" ; " GREAT life" and "Yes, crime is high in South Africa, but most people just go on with their lives and they are fine. But just keep it in mind and be alert" can be used in the same sentence.

Please can someone explain this to me, because maybe I just do not get it. I am not going to attack anyone, but am gobsmacked that anyone can say this. " OO South Africa is so great, BUT just make sure you lock your doors at night, have your gun under your pillow, dont go there, dont drive there, dont let your kids play there, dont, dont dont" and because why? BECAUSE of VIOLENT CRIME. Anyone of you can now rant on about crime statistics of AUS and NZ etc, but I can and will honestly tell anyof you and you all know it in yourselves anyway, is that none of us here even think of that fear you guys think about every minute of your life. And to all those guys and girls posting all this crap, why dont you tell what you or your wife/girlfriend's biggets fear is, but then also tewll them what your chances in SOuth Africa is of ecperiencing that biggest fear. SO why are you telling all these people all these lovely stories, but fail to mention any of this. ANd you can deny iot all you want but we ALL know it is true.

" I'm not sure about the best driving route - it would be best to check with locals. Just lock your car doors, don't leave any valuables in eyes sight, try and take a different route each night and late at night approach a traffic light slowly so you don't need to stop." Wasnt that the actual reason for a red light - for you top stop so order on the road is maintained - A good way to show law and order has gone to crap there.

What bloody Great life is that. Well I hope you sleep as well as I do tonight, but I strongly doubt that, beacuse I am exhausted after playing and enjoying my life with my family that tonight I sleep like a baby. And all of you? Yeah thought so. 

PS - Dont forget to lock your prison tonight and activate your alarm, and most of make sure the gun is ready!!!!!!!!


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## Teremok (Sep 28, 2008)

A friend (ex 32nd battalion) and I were both held at gun point in Kloof Street a few weeks ago. We were heading to a restaurant around 9pm in the evening. The guys were high on Tik or something similar. Managed to work through the situation with no harm done to us. 

The restaurant business in Cape Town is tough and at the moment very tough. I have many friends running different types of establishments in the CBD from Tapas to fine dining. All are having a terrible season. 

Good luck.


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## gearhead (Jan 6, 2009)

I have to agree with MartinW here.

How on earth can you call a city 'GREAT' when you are so scared as to recommend taking 'different route each night?' I am sorry, but when you say RSA is a 'SAFE' place, you are misguiding people who have limited information about that place 

I have couple of relatives in CT and Joberg and they are desperately trying to get out of the country. Every day their life comes to a FULLSTOP at 6.00pm and each morning they thank their stars that they are safe.

RSA is a SAFER place only compared to Iraq, Afghanistan, Zimbabwe etc. but hey at least you know there is a crisis in these places 



Sibella said:


> Hi - Cape Town is beautiful and still reasonably safe. I would maybe invest in a security guard for the restaurant and make sure that your house is secure in Hout Bay. Lots of our family still live in Cape Town and they have a GREAT life. If you want crime figures for the area check out the saps website (google crime figures South Africa).
> 
> I'm not sure about the best driving route - it would be best to check with locals. Just lock your car doors, don't leave any valuables in eyes sight, try and take a different route each night and late at night approach a traffic light slowly so you don't need to stop.
> 
> Cape Town is wonderful for kids, great beaches, bird park in Hout Bay, Aquarium at the Waterfront, there are also excellent schools in Cape Town. Yes, crime is high in South Africa, but most people just go on with their lives and they are fine. But just keep it in mind and be alert.


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## Zimtony (Jun 28, 2008)

Hey, as a South African, who used to live in Cape Town, (not far from Hout Bay, in Kommetjie) I can say that there is NO way anyone can tel you what the crime/safety situation is like in Kloof Street. You know why? Because the only time that a crime stat will really hit home is when it hapens to you!!
Give it a miss is my reccomendation, there are far safer, more relaxed and tranquil places to bring up your kids! I have lived in inland Spain for 7 years and my 15 and 12 year old cycle to their friends, I never lock the doors to the car and most nights even leave the keys in the lock. I am not saying that there is no crime in Spain, but in relative terms to South Africa, Spain is incredible. Apart from the crime in SA stats, why not do a check on how many people are trying to get OUT of SA and move to the UK, Oz, NZ, Canada etc etc etc. I am sure that you will find a few on some of the other country expat forums on this site and you could ask them directly, why they have left SA! I am certain that 99.9% of them will mention safety!!!

Do yourself and your family a favour - don't put them in a situation that you could very likely end up regretting for the rest of your life! Far al it's beauty, South Africa is the next nation on that continent that is fast going down the drain. And I say this as a South African!!


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## crookesey (May 22, 2008)

Just visiting from the Spanish site. I was recently looking through a SA property website and noticed the most magnificent 4 bed, 4 bath with double garage, pool etc, all for £90,000. I kept note a of it and brought it up when a mate who had lived in SA for 2 years called round.

He howled with laughter and pointed to the 12 feet high perimeter walls with razor wire and cctv cameras, "the're not there to keep you in", he said, think I'll stick to Spain.


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## Zimtony (Jun 28, 2008)

Hi Crooksey,

Yep it is all relative! If you invested around €100K in a property in SA, undoubtedly you could get yourself something really special. However, when estate agents start listing items such as, "electric fencing, 24hr armed response, security patrols, secure room within the house" etc etc, it should make you a bit nervous! When you put it back to money terms, I am in fact a multi billionaire (in Zimbabwe), but wouldn't want to live there with my 63€!!!!!!!!


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## CRISRAV (Feb 3, 2009)

I've just returned last week from Cape Town, where a friend of mine has bought a house in Gardens, and where we will move next year . 
We have taken walks in Koof Street and surroundings, also until the 10 pm and we never felt frear.
I have read what they have written Martinw, Teremok and Zimtony. I do not agree at all. It seems that the majority of the inhabitants of CT are all robbers and rapers. Ten yeras ago may be the City Bowl was dangerous, but not now.
Where do you live? in paradise?
I live in Italy, Milano and I can tell you that going out at night is not so safe over here. But rou can not write such a hard words. 
I am not a young ingenuous woman, I have traveled around the world for 30 years and I have been in countries much more dangerous of South Africa.


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## Zimtony (Jun 28, 2008)

Crisav,
I have never said that the majority of the inhabitants of CT are robbers and rapists. Like you, I have certainly travelled the world and have been to many places that are dangerous. Do not believe for one minute that you can compare the potential dangers in Milan with the potential dangers in Cape Town, or any city in SA. Unfortunately, your comments are typical of someone who does not understand Africa and specifically South Africa. The main difference between crime in, say, Europe and crime in Souh Africa is very fundamental: namely that crime in Europe tends not to be violent. In South Africa it is invariably followed by violence, asault, stabbing, shooting and for the woman - rape. This is not the case in Europe. The examples of violent crime in Europe are the extreme, not the norm. 
And I say this as a South African, who lived in Cape Town,but now lives in Spain.
I can almost asure you of one thing: if you carry on your naive ramblings around Kloof Street at night, I have no doubt that you will, at some time, join the statisitcs list!
Do yourself a favour: wake up and smell the roses. Check out any of the number of crime stats available on South Africa and you will see what I mean.
And do not try and compare the crime situation in Milan with Cape Town! Milan is a big city (and yes, I have been there many times and used to live in Bergamo for a short while!), but it is not a South African city!!

Be careful, be aware and most of all, do not be naive!!!!!!!!!!


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## CRISRAV (Feb 3, 2009)

Hi Zimtony
I am not at all naive. I always keep my eyes well opened.
May be you don't know but the statistics at the moment are: in Rome every 40 hours a woman is raped. What you think abou it? And I am not talking about robberys, agressions etc etc. Every days on news papers and tV, the list never finish.
all the world is country.
Yesterday I was reading this forum, and i had the sensation tha many of you, who wrote about this topic, are exaggerating. I know Johannesburg is more dangerous, but Cape Town to me, it is not so bad. Even my friends who are living there for many years, are telling me that the criminal situation is getting much better then before.
please don't scare people who are thimking to meve in South Africa.


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## Zimtony (Jun 28, 2008)

Hi Crisav
Look, I do not want to get personal, but I am afraid you are being naive. A woman raped n Rome every 40 Hours?? Do yourself a favour and check out any of the SA rape stats. Have a look at for instance rape.co.za. The following is an extract from this website "Rape is an occurrence which, according to official statistics occurred approximately 16,000 times annually during the 1980s. By 2006 the official figure for rape was over 55 000 , unofficially, based on the premise put forward by the National Institute of Crime Rehabilitation that only one in twenty rapes are reported, the figure is over 494,000 a year. 

This means that on average approximately one thousand three hundred women can be expected to be raped a day in South Africa. 

A study by Interpol, the international police agency, has revealed that South Africa leads the world in rapes. 

A woman was raped in South Africa every 17 seconds. This did not include the number of child rape victims. It was estimated that one in every two women would be raped."

1300 a day!!! and you mention Rome in the same way, having 1 rape every 40 hours!! Get real!!!!!!!!!

Look, you wil make up your own mid, but whenever you walk out at night, anywhere in SOuth Africa, you are in danger of joining these statistic


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## anirac (Feb 15, 2009)

I think you are making a huge mistake opening a restaurant in CT. But that is just my opinion. I would not open a business dealing with cash. The restaurant trade is very quiet at the moment - money is tight and crime is high. We also don't go out at night anymore. 
You have to be vigilant when out on the streets and in your home but just taking a different route at night cannot guarantee your safety. My stepson's mom lives in the Netherlands, we simply refuse to take him to the airport for a night flight - mornings are better. The R300 is very dangerous. Hout Bay is not a bad area although with the squatter camp expanding as much as it did, it did become much more dangerous to live there.
Good luck with your decision, but as a Cape Tonian - I wouldn't recommend it.


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## DannyBoy (Apr 29, 2009)

martinagael said:


> Hi !!!
> 
> i need some help about the safety in Cape Town City at night, i'm moving to CT on the next Feb. with my family......lot of people are telling us that we are crazy because is one of the most unsafe places in the world and not very good for kids...i have some references but want to have more opinions, let me know yours, above all, what concern in safety in Kloof Street at night, because We are going to open a restaurant in Kloof street, what kind of precaution do you recomend me to take and also let me know how safe is the route from Kloof to Hout Bay at night also,we will be living in Hout Bay.
> 
> thank you


Hello Martin,

did you end up moving to Cape Town and opening the Kloof Street restaurant after all, or did you abandon your original plan.
I was at a Mexican Restaurant in upper Kloof street last April on a Saturday night and it seemed "okay".
There's a bunch of restaurants next door to each other for about a block and a half.

Most of the folks out in the streets and restaurants were 20 something yuppies. Further down where Kloof street gets into the seedier part of town there were small gangs of homeless children begging and running around. 
I'm just curious as to what course you took in the end.


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## Buney (Oct 11, 2011)

I can remember going through the uncertainty and the worry of moving to Cape Town from a sleepy village in West Sussex. UK
I can remember reading the threads on this very website. I was coming here with my girlfriend through choice.
We had sold our business in the UK and could have gone anywhere, we traveled the world before we chose Cape Town in 07
Do it! We never looked back.
It,s always the expat south Africans who will try and talk you out of it. Make your own minds up, we did and never looked back.
We wanted to get away from the terrorism that was boiling up in Europe and the UK and we did, there is none here.
We travel by car all the time at night, we walk the bar routes in Cape Town late at night. It's the same as London or Lisbon or Madrid.
Just be careful where ever you are and keep your eyes open! Good luck!


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## saffer (Nov 2, 2011)

Buney said:


> I can remember going through the uncertainty and the worry of moving to Cape Town from a sleepy village in West Sussex. UK
> I can remember reading the threads on this very website. I was coming here with my girlfriend through choice.
> We had sold our business in the UK and could have gone anywhere, we traveled the world before we chose Cape Town in 07
> Do it! We never looked back.
> ...


There seems to be a trend on this forum. All the expats actually living in South Africa love it despite what three or four ex South Africans try to tell you. Who knows why these guys can't just let people be.


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