# EU Citizen Registration



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

Just for interest:- 

I was present yesterday when a Dutch citizen, under retirement age, was not allowed to present her papers for EU Citizen Registration as the medical cover had been issued outside Spain (in UK). She had been unable to get cover in Spain due to a significant previous health condition.

Her Spanish lawyer spoke on the telephony to the officer, but he still refused.

Her husband was allowed to register as he had Spanish based health cover.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

larryzx said:


> Just for interest:-
> 
> I was present yesterday when a Dutch citizen, under retirement age, was not allowed to present her papers for EU Citizen Registration as the medical cover had been issued outside Spain (in UK). She had been unable to get cover in Spain due to a significant previous health condition.
> 
> ...


this comes as no surprise at all

local health cover has always been recommended o this forum - I'd have thought it obvious that insurance with a Spanish company would be the requirement


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> this comes as no surprise at all
> 
> local health cover has always been recommended on this forum - I'd have thought it obvious that insurance with a Spanish company would be the requirement


But the lady could not get cover with any Spanish company.

They now have the 'interesting situation' that the husband now is Registered but his wife 'cannot be'. 

However, I understand that as an EU citizen she has the right to live anywhere in the EU and more importantly, I understand that Spain has signed an EU Directive which in effect says, without justification, it is illegal to prevent a couple living together.


----------



## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

larryzx said:


> But the lady could not get cover with any Spanish company.
> 
> They now have the 'interesting situation' that the husband now is Registered but his wife 'cannot be'.
> 
> However, I understand that as an EU citizen she has the right to live anywhere in the EU and more importantly, I understand that Spain has signed an EU Directive which in effect says, without justification, it is illegal to prevent a couple living together.


It doesn't actually matter that she's not registered as she has proof that she has applied and tried to get registered. 

There is therefore NOTHING that the authorities can do.

The only down side is that her husband will have to do things for her if she need to show her certificate.


Regarding health cover - I was of the belief that anyone could get cover - the only issue is price and exclusions. So, all she has to do is get cover excluding her current problems.


----------



## angkag (Oct 29, 2013)

snikpoh said:


> Regarding health cover - I was of the belief that anyone could get cover - the only issue is price and exclusions. So, all she has to do is get cover excluding her current problems.


My health cover had an exclusion due to a past health issue and my lawyer was a bit worried that the cover wouldn't be deemed to be equivalent to the state cover, which I think is the actual requirement.

As it happened, it never came up as an issue in the applicatipon process, but it sounded like it had been an issue with one of his previous applicants once. So just a heads-up that any coverage with significant exclusions might (and might not) be an issue depending on the immigration official and how technical they want to get on the day.


----------



## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> It doesn't actually matter that she's not registered as she has proof that she has applied and tried to get registered.
> 
> There is therefore NOTHING that the authorities can do.
> 
> ...


But what would happen if her current problems need attention?


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

extranjero said:


> But what would happen if her current problems need attention?


Go to a Spanish hospital and pay?


----------



## extranjero (Nov 16, 2012)

Yes, sure, most people could pay many thousands of euros? 
I don't think so!


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

extranjero said:


> Yes, sure, most people could pay many thousands of euros?
> I don't think so!


I didn't say that she or anyone would be able to afford it, but that may be her only option, that or go to her country of origin and pay there.
She is the one who has to 
A) inform herself of her options
B) decide if it's a good idea for her to come to a foreign country to live, and it sounds like she has made that decision without all the economic facts before her.

For some people living abroad is just not the thing to do perhaps through no fault of their own. I'm not unsympathetic, but are there any other ways for her, and others like her to go?


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Could the cover which this lady has, although issued in the UK, possibly be an international health insurance policy which could therefore be used for treatment in Spain? They do exist, although I believe they're very expensive. Not as expensive as facing a potential bill for major treatment, though.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> Could the cover which this lady has, although issued in the UK, possibly be an international health insurance policy which could therefore be used for treatment in Spain? They do exist, although I believe they're very expensive. Not as expensive as facing a potential bill for major treatment, though.


I don't know, but it's been refused


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I don't know, but it's been refused


Yes, I understand that it wasn't accepted for the purposes of registration, but if it is international cover then it answers the question of how she would deal with any healthcare needs whilst living here, albeit not registered as a resident, and as has already been stated, there doesn't appear to be anything the authorities could do to penalise her as she has tried to register but been refused.

If the cover excludes her pre-existing condition, though, personally I'd find that too big a risk to take no matter how much I wanted to move here (whether that type of insurance was acceptable to the Spanish authorities or not). I wouldn't want the potential danger of a massive hospital bill hanging over me.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> Yes, I understand that it wasn't accepted for the purposes of registration, but if it is international cover then it answers the question of how she would deal with any healthcare needs whilst living here, albeit not registered as a resident, and as has already been stated, there doesn't appear to be anything the authorities could do to penalise her as she has tried to register but been refused.


So, she is covered even though that cover isn't recognised by the Spanish government.
Interesting.
So how would that go through with a local hospital? Do you think it could be problematic?




> If the cover excludes her pre-existing condition, though, personally I'd find that too big a risk to take no matter how much I wanted to move here (whether that type of insurance was acceptable to the Spanish authorities or not). I wouldn't want the potential danger of a massive hospital bill hanging over me.


Me neither, but that's up to her I suppose, but it's nothing to do with the Spanish authorities as far as I can see.


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Pesky Wesky said:


> So, she is covered even though that cover isn't recognised by the Spanish government.
> Interesting.
> So how would that go through with a local hospital? Do you think it could be problematic?
> 
> ...


Well, I don't KNOW that she is, I was just putting the hypothesis forward that she might have international cover albeit not issued by a Spanish company. If she did, and went to a Spanish private hospital (she couldn't use a public one) I shouldn't think they'd care less whether she was registered as a resident or not, all they're interested in is that their bill is going to get paid.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Lynn R said:


> Well, I don't KNOW that she is, I was just putting the hypothesis forward that she might have international cover albeit not issued by a Spanish company. If she did, and went to a Spanish private hospital (she couldn't use a public one) I shouldn't think they'd care less whether she was registered as a resident or not, all they're interested in is that their bill is going to get paid.


Yes, good points!!


----------



## larryzx (Jul 2, 2014)

xabiachica said:


> this comes as no surprise at all
> 
> local health cover has always been recommended o this forum - I'd have thought it obvious that insurance with a Spanish company would be the requirement


Seems the police were wrong. I just came upon this;:-


_
Secretaría General de Inmigración y Emigración. Portal de la Inmigración

Si no se ejerce actividad laboral en España se deberá aportar: 
•	Documentación acreditativa de disponer de seguro de enfermedad público o privado, contratado en España o en otro país, siempre que proporcione una cobertura en España durante su periodo de residencia equivalente a la proporcionada por el sistema nacional de salud. Los pensionistas cumplen con esta condición aportando certificación de disponer de asistencia sanitaria con cargo al Estado por el que perciben pensión.
If work is not exercised in Spain you must submit:

• Supporting documentation for public or private sickness insurance contracted in Spain or in another country, provided that it provides coverage in Spain during their period of residence equal to the one provided by the national health system. Pensioners meet this condition when they provide certification for health care charged to the State from which they get their pension.

_


----------



## IanB (Feb 11, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> Could the cover which this lady has, although issued in the UK, possibly be an international health insurance policy which could therefore be used for treatment in Spain? They do exist, although I believe they're very expensive. Not as expensive as facing a potential bill for major treatment, though.


 Yes Lyn, "International" cover is available. We looked at the possibility of some cover just for Spain via BUPA and a specialist company that has connections with them (discounts!), i.e., The Overseas Guides Company. It was just horrendous, for me alone excluding my wife it came out at £20,000 per annum. Yes thats correct twenty thousand pounds per year. I asked about Spain alone being past retirement age and having a State pension etc. There was NO discount for a single country policy.

My wife with no reportable pre-existing conditions on top of this was close to £15,000 per annum. I have osteoarthritis ( required joints already replaced) my cardiomyopathy is now classified at NYHA Class 1 i.e. mild.

This suggests that health insurance for those past retirement age is beyond mere mortals like ourselves. However local Spanish cover looks as though it will come in rather cheaper shall we say.

regards
Ian


----------



## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

IanB said:


> Yes Lyn, "International" cover is available. We looked at the possibility of some cover just for Spain via BUPA and a specialist company that has connections with them (discounts!), i.e., The Overseas Guides Company. It was just horrendous, for me alone excluding my wife it came out at £20,000 per annum. Yes thats correct twenty thousand pounds per year. I asked about Spain alone being past retirement age and having a State pension etc. There was NO discount for a single country policy.
> 
> My wife with no reportable pre-existing conditions on top of this was close to £15,000 per annum. I have osteoarthritis ( required joints already replaced) my cardiomyopathy is now classified at NYHA Class 1 i.e. mild.
> 
> ...


Good grief! I knew they were expensive but I didn't realise they were THAT expensive. Yes, Spanish cover is likely to be much cheaper. We currently pay €110 per month for the two of us, and the premium didn't increase other than by the normal small amount because my OH turned 65 towards the end of last year.


----------



## IanB (Feb 11, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> Good grief! I knew they were expensive but I didn't realise they were THAT expensive. Yes, Spanish cover is likely to be much cheaper. We currently pay €110 per month for the two of us, and the premium didn't increase other than by the normal small amount because my OH turned 65 towards the end of last year.


It certainly scared us a bit as well. It became the final nail in the coffin at the time in us putting our plans on hold.

There were a number of providers as well who refused to to quote at all despite us qualifying for Spanish State healthcare and only really needing a "top- up" yopu might say.

A comparison on health costs showed that to have a revision on my hip (i.e. replacing the worn out replacement) privately would have cost just £10,000 (GBP). My on going heart problems have recovered from "severe" NYHA Class 3 in 2008 to "mild" now at NYHA Class 1 and are in any case fully covered in the State care arrangements. I have fallen into the very lucky and fortunate 27% world wide who achieve this "reverse re-modelling" of the heart. I have to have multiple prescriptions but had always costed that into the equations of moving to Spain.

By the way where we live the health authorities cannot even meet the minimum standards required by NICE in any area of clinical need for cardiac patients so the waiting times in Spain are unlikely to be any worse e.g an echo cardiogram is normally 26 - 36 weeks waiting and for a long time the stats showed at least three patients waiting in excess of 36 weeks.

Hence my advice to anyone from our experiences is to do the research thoroughly on this matter and to check out exactly where you stand for your own particular circumstances. It is most unwise to trust to luck or to trust the probity of the insurance companies involved. As with anything in life now get it in writing in a watertight contract.

regards
Ian


----------

