# EEA Family Permit refused twice



## sajsnesan (Feb 23, 2016)

Hi Guys,

I need your help here. I have applied for EEA family permit twice and it has been refused both times. The reason for first refusal stated that the ECO is not satisfied that the marriage is not one of convenience. Hence, I submitted all photos, chats, emails, call history in the second application. No other reason for refusal was stated in the first refusal letter.

In the decision pertaining to my second application, the ECO was convinced that our relationship is subsisting and the marriage is genuine after all evidences were submitted. However, this time ECO came up with refusal stating that he was not satisfied that my wife in the UK was exercising her treaty rights. I had provided them with her employment contract letter and the ECO said that it was electronically signed. Furthermore, there was no salary received from this employer in her bank account. That is true since she joined only on 2nd Feb 2016 and her salary was not processed until yesterday. Also her tenancy agreement was provided and signed manually but the ECO said it was signed electronically and hence the ECO was not satisfied.

I am planning to make a third application mentioning the exact page where the manual signature on the tenancy agreement has been done. I will also provide bank statement showing her salary now deposited and her payslip for Feb 2016. She has also taken a letter from her HR certifying her current address as she lives in the hospital premises. Council tax, bills are paid by her employer and hence no other evidence for address proof is currently present. However, her bank statement shows the same address. I will also be sending a manually signed employment offer letter of my wife along with the electronically signed one submitted in my previous application.

Am I on the right path and should I proceed with third application or should I appeal (for which I have no clue currently)

There is no effort made by the ECO to verify/ contact relevant authorities and cross check evidences if they feel doubt. Straight rejection and a genuine applicant needs to go through the whole printing, submitting and collection process again. Imagine the plight for people coming to VFS from a long distance. Makes me disappointed.

Please help. Your advise would be very useful.


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## ali.uk (Feb 1, 2016)

sajsnesan said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I need your help here. I have applied for EEA family permit twice and it has been refused both times. The reason for first refusal stated that the ECO is not satisfied that the marriage is not one of convenience. Hence, I submitted all photos, chats, emails, call history in the second application. No other reason for refusal was stated in the first refusal letter.
> 
> ...


HI 
sorry for these things
can you tell me, when and where did you applied. and in how many days you received the decision. 
how long you are married
where married
before marriage where you have been living together or not and how long

thnaksss


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

> There is no effort made by the ECO to verify/ contact relevant authorities and cross check evidences if they feel doubt. Straight rejection and a genuine applicant needs to go through the whole printing, submitting and collection process again. Imagine the plight for people coming to VFS from a long distance. Makes me disappointed.


The onus is on the Applicant and Sponsor to provide the requisite documents to back their application, as they're the ones seeking permission to enter the UK.

The ECO is by no way obliged to carry out any verification checks if there is any doubt... their job is to evaluate the application and the supporting documents given as evidence at the time of application and not go cross checking the validity of documents submitted.

Think of how much time it would take for the ECOs to process applications if they had to stop and "... verify/contact relevant authorities and cross check evidences if they feel doubt," especially if the relevant authorities are in a different country or time zone than where the application is being processed. People already complain how outrageously long the wait is for EEA applications to be process as it is... if those applicants also expect the ECOs to chase up every item of doubt, there's no telling how long it might take for the applications to be processed... you can't have it both ways - it's just not a feasible thing to expect them to do.


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## sajsnesan (Feb 23, 2016)

Hi Ali.uk,

I am an Indian national and my wife is Portuguese currently working in the UK since 2nd Feb 2016. I applied at Mumbai, India and each time I received a reply in 5 working days. I got married on 15th Dec 2015 in India. I provided all evidences of marriage in form of invitation cards, original marriage certificate, photos of marriage, honeymoon tickets, evidences of our calls/msgs on whatsapp, FB, Hangouts. We were in a relationship since 2009. Several email conversations as well as pictures from the past 6 years have been provided. I had only provided marriage certificate in the first application and hence the ECO would have felt whether the marriage is of convenience. However, I provided all other evidences listed above in my second application when ECO commented that he was satisfied that the marriage is genuine and relationship is subsisting. 

My second application was rejected because the ECO got only electronic offer letter of employment of my wife working in the UK. Since she had just begun her job on Feb 2nd 2016, it was not possible to provide any payslip or bank statement did not reflect the payment from her employer. Now that she has received her payslip and amount has been deposited by her employer in her bank account, she has given me all those proofs. Also, the ECO stated that tenancy agreement provided by her was only electronically signed when it was indeed signed manually by the issuing authority ! I have the following 2 questions-

1. The first refusal did not mention any reasons related to her employment or accommodation and the reason for refusal was that the ECO was not satisfied that the marriage is not one of convenience. The second refusal was because the ECO was not satisfied that my spouse was exercising her treaty rights through employment. Documents provided in the second application = documents provided in first application + proofs related to our long term relationship and subsequent marriage. So why wasn't the point of her exercising treaty right not a reason for refusal in the first application itself ? It was not as if we submitted any other documents. Does the ECO state new reason for refusal everytime if documents are only added and the previous reason for refusal has been satisfied ? 

2. I am submitting her payslip, her bank statement reflecting her first salary, her employment contract both electronically and manually signed and scanned, tenancy agreement manually signed (stating the page and name of person who signed it), letter from her HR confirming her current residential address along with previously submitted documents. Since her employer directly deducts rent from salary and pays bills, tax, those proofs are not available showing her name. Are these additional documents enough to show she exercises her treaty rights through employment and that the mentioned address is correct ?

I have a right to appeal in this case. However, there is an associated cost plus if my third application goes through, I might get the visa earlier than through appeal procedures. I believe appeal would take a lot of time. Is this correct?

Hi westcoast canadian girl,

You are correct in your argument, however rejecting the application could not be the only alternative then. Perhaps, they might ask for additional documentation to prove things they doubt. And we can collect evidences and provide them. This would prevent applicant's to and fro to VFS, multiple biometric checks and filling the same application form again and all print out related costs and paper wastages.

Regards,
Sajeet


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## sajsnesan (Feb 23, 2016)

Following is a list of documents that I would be providing:

1. My original passport and one photocopy of the same.

2. Original marriage certificate.

3. My savings account bank statement and details of my fixed deposits.

4. My passport size photograph.

5. TB test report.

6. Signed print out copy of the submitted online visa application form.

7. Passport copy, OCI copy of my wife along with her Portuguese identity card.

8. Bank statement of my wife reflecting her salary paid by NHS in Feb 2016 and her current 

residential address.

9. Tenancy agreement from Estates and Hotel Services Manager, Hywel Dda University Health 

Board and letter from the HR of Prince Philip Hospital, Hywel Dda University Health Board 

confirming the same address.

10. Her employment contract letter, both electronically signed off(1st February 2016) as submitted 

in the previous application and manually signed(22nd February 2016) by her recruiting officer.

11. Her salary slip for Feb 2016.

12. Her National Insurance document reflecting her National Insurance Number.

13. Declaration letter from my wife that she would like me to join her in the UK.

14. Declaration letter from my wife through her employer 

15. Print outs of photos taken during marriage, reception, rituals done at home and family get 

together.

16. Marriage invitation cards from both families.

17. Snapshots of Facebook showing our mutual friends, congratulation messages for our wedding, 

our recent trips together, marriage pictures, engagement pictures. There are also 

snapshots of Facebook showing we were together pre-wedding in Colva, Goa on Nov 21, 2015 

and in Mumbai on Oct 22, 2015. Few other snapshots have been provided regarding our 

communication from 2011, 2012 and 2013 on Facebook.

18. Proof of voice and video calls placed on Hangouts and WhatsApp with my wife since she left for 

the UK on 13th Jan 2016. Also a few WhatsApp conversations have been provided that have our 

pictures together.

19. Flight tickets and pictures of our honeymoon trip to Kerala, India between 25th Dec 2015 and 1st Jan 2016.

20. Photographs taken 2010 onwards showing us together when we were in a relationship.

21. Email exchanges and chat screenshots between us for the period between 2011 and 2015 on 

Gmail.

Any other documents as a proof of her exercising treaty rights or proof of her residence be required? As mentioned in the above post, her rent is deducted from the salary and payslip shows rent deduction. Bills and tax are paid of by the hospital. She is a doctor working with NHS.

Thank you.

Looking forward for any suggestions/ additional evidences that would need to be provided. 

Regards,


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

> You are correct in your argument, however rejecting the application could not be the only alternative then. Perhaps, they might ask for additional documentation to prove things they doubt. And we can collect evidences and provide them. This would prevent applicant's to and fro to VFS, multiple biometric checks and filling the same application form again and all print out related costs and paper wastages.


Again, this would cause delays in processing while the ECO waits for the requested documents to be submitted... such delays would be avoided if the required documentation is sent with the initial application. 

It also begs the question as to how long the ECO should have to wait for the documentation to be submitted? What if, for whatever reason, the applicant doesn't receive the request for more documentation? Who is to blame then?


A flat out refusal on an EEA Family permit is not as serious an issue as it would be if the partner of a UK citizen were to apply and be rejected. 

An EEA FP refusal _is *not*_ counted against the Applicant and Sponsor in future applications.
A UKVI Settlement Visa refusal _*is*_ counted against the Applicant and Sponsor on the resubmission _and_ in future visa applications and will automatically cause delays in processing their applications.


The cost to submit an EEA FP application is FREE.
A UKVI Settlement Visa application will cost £1,195 as of 06 April 2016.


So, while it may be a bit of an inconvenience to you to have to go to a VFS location to have your biometrics done, it's not like they're singling you out - the same process of submitting biometric data is required for everyone, regardless of what visa they are trying for... add to the fact that beyond the cost of travelling to the VFS location the cost to apply for an EEA FP is free and you really have no reason to complain about the time and inconvenience required. I and everyone else who have had to pay out £££ for UKVI settlement visa applications would love to have paid nothing for them instead of the £000s in cost for the application PLUS the cost of getting to the VFS location _and_ (for those applying from North America and certain other parts of the world) the cost of couriering our documents to the UK for processing.

I'm sorry that you've met with some stumbling blocks, but once you've properly cleared the deficiencies in your application, you should be able to get your permit and come to the UK.


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## ali.uk (Feb 1, 2016)

sajsnesan said:


> Following is a list of documents that I would be providing:
> 
> 1. My original passport and one photocopy of the same.
> 
> ...


May be I am wrong may be right,
but for the first three month there is no any obligation to proof of accommodation or job contracts or funds etc.

but it should be enough proofs which you already have submitted

Did you requested to consider your application under EEA REGULATIONS/DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC.


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## sajsnesan (Feb 23, 2016)

ali.uk said:


> May be I am wrong may be right,
> but for the first three month there is no any obligation to proof of accommodation or job contracts or funds etc.
> 
> but it should be enough proofs which you already have submitted


She was in the UK from Dec 2014 to Feb 2015, then in India till dec 2015 and now back to the UK in Jan 2016


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## ali.uk (Feb 1, 2016)

sajsnesan said:


> She was in the UK from Dec 2014 to Feb 2015, then in India till dec 2015 and now back to the UK in Jan 2016


aaaah sorry, I thought that she just moved,

I think new application is not a good Idea. but you should appeal and I hope this time you will got it.
because salary slips and bank statements are very important thing which were missing in your last application, obviously your sponsor have to prove herself as a QUALIFIED person, in this case need proofs. so in my views you should appeal and submit missing documents.
this will be fine for you.

one thing more, 

If her last stay was less than three months. and again her stay is less than three months. may be you are exempt of requirements.

as yo mentioned Dec 2014-Feb2015 and again Dec 2015-feb2016

look at the dates. may be this lines you can add to your appeal to support your application.


kind regards


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## walt8489 (Sep 28, 2016)

did you get the family permit done?


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