# An American and British National living in the US, moving to Portgual?



## aloewy (Sep 8, 2014)

My husband is a British National, living in the USA via a 'green card' (resident status). I am an American citizen. We are considering relocating to Portugal.

Considering our unusual circumstances, how difficult would it be for the both of us to move. I realize that Portugal being part of the EU would allow his move to be easier; however, since I am married to a National, would that make it easier for me as well?


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Welcome to the forum. 

Canoeman will be able to give you chapter and verse on this but my 2 cents on is that it should be a fairly straight forward process but that how easy may well depend on which country you got married in. 

If an EU country, then it should be easy but if in the US or elsewhere, you would be well advised to take your marriage certificate to the UK Embassy/High Commission and have them attach an apostille to it saying the marriage is legal in the country where it took place.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Yes straightforward as your Husband is a British National as a EU Citizen he can work, study, visit or retire in any EU country with little or no formality as his wife you can also accompany him and do the same, little more formality in that you enter on a Schengen Visa and he applies for unification of family to Portuguese SEF Ministry.
He follows this procedure first
Portal SEF

then this procedure for you
Portal SEF

as TM says important to have all relevant paperwork + apostiles etc if reguired and also Driving Licences which must be exchanged, can't post a link for that as IMTT site still being revamped


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## aloewy (Sep 8, 2014)

Married in the US (going on 15 years in December). All kids are grown and are living in either the UK or the US. Ready to downsize and move abroad. I did all his paperwork when he came here and his residency will be up in 2017. If we moved to Portugal, I wonder how it would affect his US residency if we decided to return, (assuming he renewed it before we left).

How many of you sold everything lock-stock-barrel and started over? I realize this would be a huge undertaking and am willing to get rid of everything but for a few family heirlooms and our dog (assuming we could take her).

And the big question.... I have background in accounting, construction administration and am a Certified Massage Therapist. Will it be that difficult for ME to get work as a non- EU?


Thanks to all in advance for the info.


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

We came from South Africa 3 years ago and shipped pretty much everything across with us but frankly, it was a mistake and we'd have been better selling it all or even giving most of it away and buying new here. 

Probably worth bringing two (good) left hand drive cars with you though as US values are so much lower than Portuguese ones...... there are however fairly strict criteria you have to comply with for that, including having owned the cars for a year before leaving the US. - Even more savings to be made with classic cars incidentally. 

Lots of unemployment here so don't bank on finding any work easily, especially if you don't speak fluent Portuguese.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

You need to check in USA how his residency would be affected
Dog/s no problem just expensive to ship

As TM says chances of work very slim, Portuguese accountants (bookeepers) are 2 a penny and tax system different, maybe possible work for US Expats and US IRS but wouldn't bank on it, construction industry in doldrums fluent Portuguese would be a basic, massage maybe a home business


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## aloewy (Sep 8, 2014)

Since Europe is well-known for it's great transportation, I'd be in no hurry to learn to drive. Give me a Vespa and I'd be a happy clam!

Would love to have my own business, but either/any way, am banking on learning Portuguese. That's a must in my book! (My Spanish may give me a head start, but it messed up my Italian when we were in Italy a few years ago....) 

Have you all been happy with the move? Is it worth it? I love Europe, the people, the food, the history...so the only difficult part for me would be leaving the kids and my granddaughter..


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

We love it here but have to admit, we do also miss our friends on the other side of the ocean.


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## aloewy (Sep 8, 2014)

travelling-man said:


> We love it here but have to admit, we do also miss our friends on the other side of the ocean.



At least the UK is only a stone's-throw.  Travel back to the US for me would be a bit more of a trek.


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## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

aloewy said:


> Since Europe is well-known for it's great transportation, I'd be in no hurry to learn to drive. Give me a Vespa and I'd be a happy clam!


Europe is well known for transportation but not sadly Portugal.
Coach services are OK town to town and city to city but rail journies are a nightmare.

As US residents I would urge you to think carefully about buying 2 large SUV´s or Pick Ups keeping them for 12 months and importing via Matriculation.

The driving standards here are terrible and the carnage on the roads is the worst in Europe. Just pick up a paper and look at the obituaries, and the accidents and you get an idea.
If you asked me what would I change then top of my list would be driving, as an example the IC2 at night is frankly terrifying.

Rob


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## aloewy (Sep 8, 2014)

robc said:


> Europe is well known for transportation but not sadly Portugal.
> Coach services are OK town to town and city to city but rail journies are a nightmare.
> 
> As US residents I would urge you to think carefully about buying 2 large SUV´s or Pick Ups keeping them for 12 months and importing via Matriculation.
> ...


Have you ever driven in Los Angeles?  Compared to the US, Europe in general has much better public transport. 

We have a mini cooper, a pick-up truck and a crossfire (sports car) here.
I could only imagine how expensive it would be to ship a car rather than just buying something to get around...?


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## robc (Jul 17, 2008)

Actually I have driven in US on a number of occasions, plus Africa (North), Australia, Italy, Germany, France, Ireland Sudan, Canada, Mexico etc. 

Of all the places I have driven I rate Portugal as by far the worst.

I think you will be staggered at the price of a run about here, plus you need to see how they treat their cars to realise that even with shipping costs it would be sensible to import your cars.

See here Standvirtual - O Nº1 em Carros Usados, Carros Baratos

Rob


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

aloewy you still need a licence to drive a Vespa and far easier to exchange a driving licence than to take a test in Portugal even for a Vespa

Happy with move very, but it's very different living in a country rather than visiting even if a longer visit


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Shipping a car isn't as expensive as you'd imagine and car values here make it well worthwhile. 

As an example, I shipped my very large 1982 Jeep Wagoneer from South Africa to Portugal at a cost of (from memory) less than €1500. 

If I'd sold it there, I'd have got the equivalent of around €3k but here, it's had 2 separate valuations of €30k.


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## aloewy (Sep 8, 2014)

canoeman said:


> aloewy you still need a licence to drive a Vespa and far easier to exchange a driving licence than to take a test in Portugal even for a Vespa
> 
> Happy with move very, but it's very different living in a country rather than visiting even if a longer visit


Wish they would toughen-up the driving requirements here in the US. Most people do not have a clue. When my husband moved here, he only showed the department of motor vehicles, his UK license and they issued him a US one... bad bad idea... even after 15 years, I have to occasionally say "Right side of the road dear."

We did notice near Napoli, that the drivers were crazy. We had a maseratti (sp) pass us on the left, between us and the railing... scariest moment of my life!


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## travelling-man (Jun 17, 2011)

Another example will be of you check ebay.com for something like a mid to late 80s Merc SL, you'll see them for the equivalent of €10k - 15k for a good one and considerably less for a not so good one.

Here, the same cars in good to excellent condition change hands for between €30k - 40k. 

Alternatively, find out how much your cars are worth and then check on that standvirtual site and check the values here.


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## aloewy (Sep 8, 2014)

travelling-man said:


> Shipping a car isn't as expensive as you'd imagine and car values here make it well worthwhile.
> 
> As an example, I shipped my very large 1982 Jeep Wagoneer from South Africa to Portugal at a cost of (from memory) less than €1500.
> 
> If I'd sold it there, I'd have got the equivalent of around €3k but here, it's had 2 separate valuations of €30k.


WOW... much much less than I would have thought! Thank you!


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Maybe driving licences are not quite as easy as US but taking a Portuguese test although you wouldn't believe it from standard of driving requires x amount of tuition with a registered driving school, a practical & theory test far easier to exchange a licence if you have one and if moving from US requires statement and Apostiles.


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## azoreseuropa (Nov 10, 2013)

canoeman said:


> Maybe driving licences are not quite as easy as US but taking a Portuguese test although you wouldn't believe it from standard of driving requires x amount of tuition with a registered driving school, a practical & theory test far easier to exchange a licence if you have one and if moving from US requires statement and Apostiles.


Yeah, I was told that an exchange a license is easier if you were from US or Canada.


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

No it's not just USA or Canada it's easier to exchange a Driving Licence from any country *recognized by EU and IMTT for that purpose* than the procedure reguired to take any Portuguese Driving test.
Minor examples
X number of hours tuition with a registered school
L drivers can only drive when accompanied by a registered instructor
Sufficient knowledge of Portuguese to learn Highway Code and take instruction from an examiner 

The easiest exchange is EU Licences, other countries like USA & Canada need to check requirements as statements & Apostles often reguired which are far easier to get before a move


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## azoreseuropa (Nov 10, 2013)

canoeman said:


> No it's not just USA or Canada it's easier to exchange a Driving Licence from any country *recognized by EU and IMTT for that purpose* than the procedure reguired to take any Portuguese Driving test.
> Minor examples
> X number of hours tuition with a registered school
> L drivers can only drive when accompanied by a registered instructor
> ...


What requirements as statements and Apostles are you talking about ? As I said I am EU citizen as well as US citizen - DUAL CITIZENS. I have Portuguese citizen card with me.

You mean those:

Application form
Valid passport or national identity card
Proof of residence (Certificate of Registration in the Central Aliens Register - the NIE number (Número de Identificación de Extranjer)
Valid driving licence to be exchanged (original and photocopy)
Two recent photographs (32 by 25 mm)
Declaration in writing that you have not been banned or suspended from driving
Declaration in writing that you do not hold another driver’s licence of the same class in another country

What is an Application form for ? 

http://portugal.angloinfo.com/transport/driving-licences/non-eu-licence-exchange/

And I read some Google statement that you have to get a written exam without a road test to exchange it but above link I didnt see about written exam required. This didnt say Portugal.. maybe other countries required it ? Here: http://claritaslux.com/blog/driving-license-eu/ The quote:

"You can exchange your US driving license for an EU drivers license. You can surrender your US drivers license to the driving office in that country and just pass the written exam without the road test. The written exams for EU drivers licenses are low stress and you can study with a computer program, you just need to memorizes the rules. This is great as you do not need a road test to get a driver’s license in the EU (usually). But you will have to speak the language of the country enough to take the drivers test in the language of the country you reside in."


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Your original nationality or present citizenship is *not* the issue or has any bearing.
*
It's the Driving Licence you hold and the country that issued it that any exchange is based on*

I can't post the link for the current Portuguese regulations for IMTT for exchanging a US Driving Licence as the IMTT site is being reconstructed.

To the best of my knowledge the current procedure is
You can drive on a US Licence for a max period of 185 days but once Residency permit is received the Licence must be exchanged
To exchange you must produce
_" "Abstract of Driving Record from one’s last US State of residence" to prove that the licence is authentic and valid. It must have the Apostille, seal given by the Secretary of State of the same State the document was issued"_
ID
2 Passport photos
Medical Certificate from Portuguese Doctor
US Driving Licence & Residency Permit

I have never heard of a requirement to pass a written exam when exchanging a Driving Licence or a declaration as you refer, in USA case the extract & Apostle would cover


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## azoreseuropa (Nov 10, 2013)

canoeman said:


> Your original nationality or present citizenship is *not* the issue or has any bearing.
> *
> It's the Driving Licence you hold and the country that issued it that any exchange is based on*
> 
> ...


That's what I thought.. 

Do I have to get 2 passport photos at Azores/Portugal, right ? 
Medical Certificate from Portuguese Doctor -- CHECK
US Driving License and Residency Permit -- Check (Staying at relative for now *Thats our plans*

Apostille, seal given approval ? You mean an notary ? At Driver License department nearby my home in Florida, right ?


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## canoeman (Mar 3, 2011)

Photographs anywhere but better in Portugal so size etc correct
As it says from the relevant departments in the USA 
_"Abstract of Driving Record from one’s last US State of residence" to prove that the licence is authentic and valid. It must have the Apostille, seal given by the Secretary of State of the same State the document was issued"_
Information from USA Embassy site surely one of places to first check? for information
http://photos.state.gov/libraries/portugal/231771/PDFs/driverlicense_eng_port.pdf


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## azoreseuropa (Nov 10, 2013)

Excellent. I rest the case. Thanks!


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## anapedrosa (Mar 21, 2011)

Check with your vet about the requirements to bring the dog. We brought ours from Canada, not a big deal, but there are some timing requirements for the shots and check ups prior to departure. the transport was not that bad, around $250 if I recall, but she is a relatively small dog. Also, there are limitations on the times you can travel.
We moved over last October, no regrets. I have Portuguese citizenship and husband came over on family reunification, SEF in Lisbon too time but were effective.


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## azoreseuropa (Nov 10, 2013)

anapedrosa said:


> Check with your vet about the requirements to bring the dog. We brought ours from Canada, not a big deal, but there are some timing requirements for the shots and check ups prior to departure. the transport was not that bad, around $250 if I recall, but she is a relatively small dog. Also, there are limitations on the times you can travel.
> We moved over last October, no regrets. I have Portuguese citizenship and husband came over on family reunification, SEF in Lisbon too time but were effective.


Nice. By the way, since you have Portuguese citizenship.. do you also have a Canadian Citizenship called dual citizens too ? I am curious because I have two dual citizenships - USA and Portuguese. I born in Azores, that's why. I can't wait to go back to Portugal - my sweet home and beautiful nature and Portuguese food and culture, oh man. I missed them. I can't wait.


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## anapedrosa (Mar 21, 2011)

Yes I do, dual Canadian. I was born in Canada, but visited family in Portugal. Late 2010, I mused to my partner (now husband) that I would love to move to Portugal. to my surprise he said, me too. So, here we are. For me it is both an adventure and a re-connection with my roots. My family here have reached out to welcome us in ways I never expected. We live near a lagoon, within walking distance to the ocean, the people of our town are very friendly.
Everyday I say to myself, I can' believe I live here. Absolutely no regrets about our decision.


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## azoreseuropa (Nov 10, 2013)

anapedrosa said:


> Yes I do, dual Canadian. I was born in Canada, but visited family in Portugal. Late 2010, I mused to my partner (now husband) that I would love to move to Portugal. to my surprise he said, me too. So, here we are. For me it is both an adventure and a re-connection with my roots. My family here have reached out to welcome us in ways I never expected. We live near a lagoon, within walking distance to the ocean, the people of our town are very friendly.
> Everyday I say to myself, I can' believe I live here. Absolutely no regrets about our decision.


Wow, that's amazing. We congratulates you for your happiness in Portugal. You guys are on retirement, right ? Cheers!


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## anapedrosa (Mar 21, 2011)

Thank you, and yes we are retired.


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## azoreseuropa (Nov 10, 2013)

anapedrosa said:


> Thank you, and yes we are retired.


You're welcome.


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