# Drinking problem in Spain



## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

I was interested to read this article and wondered what other people think .... banning Happy Hour ? would this really reduce the drinking in Spain ? particularly amongst "minors" ? I wouldnt have thought minors were partaking of the benefits of Happy Hour ??? Another interesting point that I didnt understand  

*"traditional Mediterranean pattern of drinking is being abandoned while less moderate "Nordic patterns" are emerging"*

Nordic patterns ????

Sue :spit:

*Happy Hour Ban

By James Parkes * Costa News Oct 2009
COSTA bar owners fear a severe drop in customers if the Valencia Region decides to follow suit with Cataluña, which has this week issued the first ban in Spain on Happy Hours (two drinks for the price of one) in bars and discos. 

Although the ban initially benefits the Costa Blanca, as tourists are expected to shun the Costa Brava and Costa Dorada due to the ban, bar owners fear the Catalan example will spread.

Those found breaking the ban will be fined between 3,000 and 600,000 euros.

Experts believe other regions, will follow suit, more so after a report this week showed alcohol abuse in Spain has soared.

The report concludes that the traditional Mediterranean pattern of drinking is being abandoned while less moderate "Nordic patterns" are emerging.

"The new consumption habit which is developing between Spanish youths, including minors," it says, "is characterised by alcohol consumption associated with leisure and weekend, times when large amounts of alcohol, especially distilled spirits, are drunk."

The study, which was developed by Madrid-based distillers Diageo and the IESE Business School at Navarra University, is part of their joint corporate responsibility strategy and calls special attention to the availability of alcohol to minors.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I dont think drink is the problem, its the mentality thats behind the reason for drinking thats the problem and that isnt gonna change whether they abolish happy hour or not!! You only have to look at the UK to see that the pricing and availablity do nothing to curb the problem!!


Jo xxx


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

That's not an issue for the bar and disco owners - they'll just reduce the prices accordingly to get around it on "specials". The real issue I think here is the "botellon" phenomenon which is becoming out of hand, if the reports are to be believed. We don't get too many out here in the sticks, but news reports and even programmes like "Callejeros" give the impression that major town and city have corners dedicated to what in effect is young people (incl. minors) gathering in large groups and drinking large quantities of cheap booze from plastic bottles and indulging in drugs (which are freely available in these scenarios and very cheap, by all accounts).

Tallulah.x


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Tallulah said:


> That's not an issue for the bar and disco owners - they'll just reduce the prices accordingly to get around it on "specials". The real issue I think here is the "botellon" phenomenon which is becoming out of hand, if the reports are to be believed. We don't get too many out here in the sticks, but news reports and even programmes like "Callejeros" give the impression that major town and city have corners dedicated to what in effect is young people (incl. minors) gathering in large groups and drinking large quantities of cheap booze from plastic bottles and indulging in drugs (which are freely available in these scenarios and very cheap, by all accounts).
> 
> Tallulah.x


Which has nowt to do with "happy hour"! As with all governments and authorities, they're targeting the wrong end of an issue and missing the point!

Jo xxx


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> That's not an issue for the bar and disco owners - they'll just reduce the prices accordingly to get around it on "specials". The real issue I think here is the "botellon" phenomenon which is becoming out of hand, if the reports are to be believed. We don't get too many out here in the sticks, but news reports and even programmes like "Callejeros" give the impression that major town and city have corners dedicated to what in effect is young people (incl. minors) gathering in large groups and drinking large quantities of cheap booze from plastic bottles and indulging in drugs (which are freely available in these scenarios and very cheap, by all accounts).
> 
> Tallulah.x


Ive seen those news reports recently too Tally ..... and it looks as if there is a problem with that, but Happy Hour ?? banning Happy Hour does not seem to be me to address the botellon problem - its almost like a UK Government approach to any problem - ban something thats sort of linked to an issue - even though there is no evidence to suggest its the cause of the problem - or that it will solve a problem - but it looks like we are doing something about it anyway 

Any comments or ideas on the "Nordic pattern"  I always thought other countries associated drink problems and drunkeness with the Brits! 

Sue x


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

At the end of the day, bars and clubs and discos are supposed to be licenced premises and not selling alcohol to underage drinkers....therefore yes, the authorities are going after those over which they feel they have the most control - and those which are easily fined/prosecuted if they flout the law. Or maybe, it's not minors who are being served in these locals who are causing the problem, but the "older" clientele!! Stumbling out after a happy hour and karaoke extravaganza?!?

With the botellon scenario, I did see a recent report where they were trying to contain it within a certain specified area, so that it reduced the level of nuisance to others, and the local police would patrol that area. Almost like a legalised rave.

Well, as for the Nordic pattern, kids is kids is kids....we've all been there - a bit of a blow out over the weekend. I remember coming out here years ago though, and alcohol wasn't really "in" for the younger ones - they were more into just going out to a few bars, having non-alcoholic drinks and just hanging around chatting and having a laugh...so I suppose patterns are changing. 

xx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Tallulah said:


> With the botellon scenario, I did see a recent report where they were trying to contain it within a certain specified area, so that it reduced the level of nuisance to others, and the local police would patrol that area. Almost like a legalised rave.
> 
> xx


Maybe thats the easy and most sensible option rather than the UK situation where the nuisance is spread all over towns and causing trouble everywhere - they dont ever get rid of the problem either way! In fact I'm not sure how you can reduce or eliminate the problem???

Jo xxx


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## Hombre (Sep 10, 2009)

Since when was drinking in Spain a problem ?


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Generally when the spillage of a nice glass of rioja causes a nasty stain on your outfit, Hombre!!

xx


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Hombre said:


> Since when was drinking in Spain a problem ?


I've not heard of this thing that Tallys talking about, all I know about are the Brits on holiday on the costas who get smashed and cause trouble, but banning happy hour wont sort them out either!!

Jo xxx


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## Hombre (Sep 10, 2009)

Hombre said:


> Since when was drinking in Spain a problem ?


Hey !!!!!!!!!!!...I'm a 100 messages old !!!!....happy birthday to me...happy birthday to me...happy bir......oh forget it...drinking in Spain eh...it really can be a problem


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

Congrats...don't you get another gold star for that?!?


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Hi Jo

Here is just one article about the Botellon ..... they are in the news regularly on Spanish TV ... interestingly though 

*"Under national law, the Council is obliged to provide a space for the youngsters to drink in public" *

PS Happy PostDay Mr H! Taking Mrs H out to celebrate this evening ?? Happy Hour sounds a good bet!

Sue x :spit:

September 17th, 2009

The Local Police are carrying out a much more comprehensive monitoring of the weekly ‘botellón’ held each weekend in the Parque Verano Azul due to complaints received from local residents.

The police are trying to ensure that the drinking stops by 01:30, the time limit set by the Council when it authorised this location for the botellón.

The Council acknowledges that allowing drinking in the local public park carries with it numerous problems, from disturbance to local residents to damage to municipal furniture, but also acknowledges that the situation is complex.

*Under national law, the Council is obliged to provide a space for the youngsters to drink in public,* and they have done so. What the Council wants, however, is for this to be compatible with the rest of the community, namely local residents, businesses and local bars.

Local bars complain that they lose custom as a result of the street drinking, where people buy their own booze from the supermarkets rather than patronising the bars. The Councilor for Security, Jonathan Méndez, suggested that bars should also make an effort as one of the main complaints of the youngsters, and the reason for the popularity of the botellón, is that the price of drinks in many bars is too high.

The Council is keen to redress the situation and even has the option to ban the botellón, although this would seem unlikely. Another possibility is a relocation of the botellón, especially in view of upcoming plans to carry aout comprehensive building and renovation work in the Parque Verano Azul.

It always seems a shame, in any situation, when someone, be it private individual or public authority, provides a requested service, and often despite not agreeing with the principle, only to see it abused. Usually by a minority.

Perhaps a (leading) member of the Council should address an assembled ‘botellón’ to try and make some sort of agreement regarding a bit of self-discipline in exchange for continued support.


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## Hombre (Sep 10, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> Congrats...don't you get another gold star for that?!?


Thanks Tally..(am I allowed to call you that?)..I think it's already dropped in..look at me ! are'nt I posh ?


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

I think its actually a good idea to keep em all "penned in" to get bladdered! At least you know where to look if you have an errant teenager. Much easier than trawling the streets all night!!! (I'm loath to admit that I've had my fair share of this when my eldest went thru a "difficult" phase)

Jo xxx


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

jojo said:


> I think its actually a good idea to keep em all "penned in" to get bladdered! At least you know where to look if you have an errant teenager. Much easier than trawling the streets all night!!! (I'm loath to admit that I've had my fair share of this when my eldest went thru a "difficult" phase)
> 
> Jo xxx



Me too! my boy was a nightmare on 2 bloody drunken legs in his teens! lol .... but thinking about I remember both my brothers going through a similar phase! and my sisters too! I was goodie two shoes .... I didnt drink that much as I didnt like the taste! lol 

Sue x:spit:


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## Hombre (Sep 10, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> Hi Jo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> At the end of the day, bars and clubs and discos are supposed to be licenced premises and not selling alcohol to underage drinkers....therefore yes, the authorities are going after those over which they feel they have the most control - and those which are easily fined/prosecuted if they flout the law. Or maybe, it's not minors who are being served in these locals who are causing the problem, but the "older" clientele!! Stumbling out after a happy hour and karaoke extravaganza?!?
> 
> With the botellon scenario, I did see a recent report where they were trying to contain it within a certain specified area, so that it reduced the level of nuisance to others, and the local police would patrol that area. Almost like a legalised rave.
> 
> ...


The "botellón scene is well extended all over Spain. I remember there being big problems in Madrid and in Sevilla. There were riots in Pozuelo near Madrid in the fiestas this year and it was blamed on an area the ayuntamiento had put aside for botellón. The main surprise element however was that Pozuelo is yuppilandia. People were blown away by the idea that middle and high class kids could also get drunk and out of control!!


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## Suenneil (Feb 17, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> The "botellón scene is well extended all over Spain. I remember there being big problems in Madrid and in Sevilla. There were riots in Pozuelo near Madrid in the fiestas this year and it was blamed on an area the ayuntamiento had put aside for botellón. The main surprise element however was that Pozuelo is yuppilandia. People were blown away by the idea that middle and high class kids could also get drunk and out of control!!


But banning Happy Hour isnt going to sort this lot out  Im just not sure where this idea comes from ..... Sue x


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> But banning Happy Hour isnt going to sort this lot out  Im just not sure where this idea comes from ..... Sue x


Ah no, that's true Sue.
However, I did hear some young people being interviewed. Look at the following (more or less quote)
We'll have to go drink in the street now that we can't take advantage of the happy hour. We're only students and we haven't got any money.
My heart bleeds...


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Suenneil said:


> I was interested to read this article and wondered what other people think .... banning Happy Hour ? would this really reduce the drinking in Spain ? particularly amongst "minors" ? I wouldnt have thought minors were partaking of the benefits of Happy Hour ??? Another interesting point that I didnt understand
> 
> *"traditional Mediterranean pattern of drinking is being abandoned while less moderate "Nordic patterns" are emerging"*
> 
> ...


I watched a news report about it from Barcelona

I have to admit to being a little miffed that a 'Brit' bar was chosen to illustrate the point - as if only 'foreigners' were guilty of 'over-drinking'


a report about the weather in Barcelona came from outside a clearly Spanish bar


I used to teach a 16 year old spanish boy - he freely admitted to me that he spent his weekends drinking whisky with his mates at botellones


as did a 15 year old english boy...................

it clearly is a habit with teens from both countries - whether it's a new habit for spanish kids I have no definitive proof either way


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Banning Happy Hour will not stop people binge drinking, nor will banning the Botellones.
If people, of any age, want to drink to excess they will find a way. Unfortunately.

In my day - ok we are going back a bit here, as teenagers - we always found a way. In Scotland a carry-oot was actually an early form of botellon. That's what Hogmanay (New Years eve for those not fluent) in the centre of Glasgow and Edinburgh is really. However, as a weekly event, I dont think its taken off in the same way as Spain, mainly due to the freezing temperatures.

We would bribe someone's big brother to buy it and then hopefully find someone whose parents had gone out for the night, so we could drink it in comfort. Or else sneak it into the local disco. Teenagers are so sneaky - or resourceful, depending how you look at it. That is why when mine reaches that difficult age, I think I am just going to have to chain him to the house till he's about 30-something.

Though I have to admit that I was shocked when in the school I work in, during a class exercise on creating their own newspaper, one group said they wanted to do a school survey, asking pupils which they preferred - drinking or smoking? They were 12/13.


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> ... a school survey, asking pupils which they preferred - drinking or smoking? They were 12/13.


That's the 'drugs' bit sorted. It only leaves them sex and rock&roll.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

JBODEN said:


> That's the 'drugs' bit sorted. It only leaves them sex and rock&roll.


well they can legally have sex at 13









so that leaves the rock n roll


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## JBODEN (Jul 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> well they can legally have sex at 13


What was Roman Polanski doing in the USA? He should have come to Spain! Sorry, that's sick. 13 year old's & sex????


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

JBODEN said:


> What was Roman Polanski doing in the USA? He should have come to Spain! Sorry, that's sick. 13 year old's & sex????


only with each other though - that's the spirit rather than the letter of the law

so probably he'd have still been arrested here

spain isn't alone - age of consent worldwide


the Vatican State has 12 as the age of consent


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

JBODEN said:


> What was Roman Polanski doing in the USA? He should have come to Spain! Sorry, that's sick. 13 year old's & sex????


I know, it's worrying isn't it. I'm going to lock my three up.:lock1:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> I know, it's worrying isn't it. I'm going to lock my three up.:lock1:


I'm just glad that my 13 year old has her head screwed on

we watched - with her 10 year old sister - Madres Adolescentes


I was proud of some of the scarily sensible comments they were both making



there was a 15 year old girl at dd1's school who was pregnant last year - my dd reckoned she was just plain stupid to a) have sex so young in the first place & b) get pregnant if she was stupid enough to have sex

looking at some of my dd's friends they have the bodies of children

my dd has the body of a woman & can easily look 18 if she wants to - so fingers crossed she keeps thinking straight


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## Tallulah (Feb 16, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I'm just glad that my 13 year old has her head screwed on
> 
> we watched - with her 10 year old sister - Madres Adolescentes
> 
> ...


Morning XC!!

...yes, we saw that advertised on the telly. I think the kids were pretty shocked by it. Which is a very good thing....I'll have to see if I can get a copy. 

...I know, my soon-to-be 12 yo dd is already raiding my wardroble. I've given them the "talk" already, but I think it's time to dig out a really good book I've got on all this, which includes all the STIs information etc....because god knows what, if any sex ed they get at school. I'll have to try and find out. :confused2:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Tallulah said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Morning XC!!
> 
> ...


it was a series on cuatro - finished now

I thought it was very well done - very balanced


we've never had 'the talk' - just answered questions as they came up


from what both my girls have told me sex ed seems to be very well done at both their schools (yes, even the primary school)

lots of factual info about contraception & STIs - and pregnancy


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

xabiachica said:


> I watched a news report about it from Barcelona
> 
> I have to admit to being a little miffed that a 'Brit' bar was chosen to illustrate the point - as if only 'foreigners' were guilty of 'over-drinking'
> 
> ...


 a new habit for spanish kids 
A new habit I wouldn't say that. It's been going on for years now. It might be dying down now or maybe people are just trying to get on with life because you don't hear about it so much now, but it's still going on.
It had got to the point where central squares in towns are completly taken over by hundreds of teenagers drinking stuff bought from supermarkets (and Chinese shops and garages which now can't sell alcohol) Beer, Gin, Whiskey... Think of the noise, and the dirt (no toilets...) the litter. And think of the people living around the square who get no sleep every Friday and Saturday. And for some strange reason the police can'y do anything about it.

both countries 
A couple on the Spanish side of the family sent their 16 year old son to Devon to stay with an English family this summer. On Saturday evening the mother went out to the supermarket and came back with rum, gin, cider, beer etc which she set out on the kitchen table. When the Spanish kid asked what was going on the reply was "Saturday Night!" She's bought it for her son and friends to consume! (I don't have clear whether she and her husband also took part) Is this the done thing in the UK now!!???:confused2:


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## dgjamison (Jul 6, 2009)

funny is'nt it all the same no matter where you go, poor students can't afford anything only booze, cigarettes, having a good time but poor poor poor hardworking pillars of the community eh??????


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## littleredrooster (Aug 3, 2008)

Nordic drinking patterns?
I would say the younger ones in Scandinavia are doing much the same as their counterparts in Spain.
Despite the restrictions imposed by the Soviet style State controlled alcohol outlets,only open for certain hours, 5 days a week,the kids still manage to get their weekend fix.
Large quantities are brought in from other EU countries on booze cruise trips which probably out number those from the UK.
For people out in the sticks, illegal stills are widespread and moonshine is easily and readily available for those who want it.
I would say the patterns emerging are much the same as those in Spain,though maybe a few years behind the UK.
Bottle parties in public parks are commonplace,often before a big soccer match and often leading to the same violence and disruptions as used to occur in the UK stadiums and around town.
I would believe from what I have seen that alcoholism is also a major problem,often worse in the country than the towns.
Some put it down to the tedious,boring lifestyle, together with the long hours of depressing Winter darkness.
In addition, the Swedes especially are not naturally very social animals and often need alcohol to help them go out and relax and mix in public.


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## dgjamison (Jul 6, 2009)

littleredrooster said:


> Nordic drinking patterns?
> I would say the younger ones in Scandinavia are doing much the same as their counterparts in Spain.
> Despite the restrictions imposed by the Soviet style State controlled alcohol outlets,only open for certain hours, 5 days a week,the kids still manage to get their weekend fix.
> Large quantities are brought in from other EU countries on booze cruise trips which probably out number those from the UK.
> ...


I am living in Canada right now and I have to say I think they have really got it right, there are no liquor stores here, only LCBO which is the liquor control board of canada, it is government controlled and that is the only place you can get alcohol , the police do not tolerate any drinking in public, they are very strict, I have not seen any drinking in public in three months. You go to the beach and there ar lots of teens having picnics but no alcohol, they are really doing something right and other countries should take note before it is too late.:clap2:


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## xxxxxxxxxxxxxdeanhankin (May 5, 2009)

*drinking*



dgjamison said:


> I am living in Canada right now and I have to say I think they have really got it right, there are no liquor stores here, only LCBO which is the liquor control board of canada, it is government controlled and that is the only place you can get alcohol , the police do not tolerate any drinking in public, they are very strict, I have not seen any drinking in public in three months. You go to the beach and there ar lots of teens having picnics but no alcohol, they are really doing something right and other countries should take note before it is too late.:clap2:


Maybe slightly off topic here but anyway.

I recently spent 10 days in Estepona and Cartama (sorry i didnt get to the pozo for the coffee JOJO) but I was shocked at how much wine you guys drink.

I stopped drinking 10 months ago but decided I would have to go with the flow and join in on this trip as I was there as the guest of a good friend. I can tell you from this recent experience that 3 bottles of wine each a night for 9 nights has put me off the thought of going to visit this fella anymore for the good of my health.

Everyone I spoke to whilst I was there was either hammered, in the process of getting hammered or on the way to the boozer to get hammered.

So on my arrival back in England I thought thank god for that no more booze for a while, only for a very good friend to invite me on a stag do.............in fuengirola


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

deanhankin said:


> Maybe slightly off topic here but anyway.
> 
> I recently spent 10 days in Estepona and Cartama (sorry i didnt get to the pozo for the coffee JOJO) but I was shocked at how much wine you guys drink.
> 
> ...


_*Is your friend happy with life in Spain, or the bars in Spain??*_


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## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Mmm yes. I agree Pesky. Just say no! I do think there are a lot of people (expats) out here, particularly down this way, who have serious drinking problems, unfortunately. The coast seems to attract certain types of people who have various issues in life which they deal with through various addictions.
Despite having a fairly wild youth, I dont drink vast quantities of alcohol either, so dont like being included in this generalization.
I think originally this thread was talking about drinking amongst the young but there is also a problem with older people binge drinking too!
Caz. I


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> Mmm yes. I agree Pesky. Just say no! I do think there are a lot of people (expats) out here, particularly down this way, who have serious drinking problems, unfortunately. The coast seems to attract certain types of people who have various issues in life which they deal with through various addictions.
> Despite having a fairly wild youth, I dont drink vast quantities of alcohol either, so dont like being included in this generalization.
> I think originally this thread was talking about drinking amongst the young but there is also a problem with older people binge drinking too!
> Caz. I


I think you're right Caz I. , there's a problem with binge drinking in adults too, it's just that they don't do it on street corners with a load of mates so it's not so obvious. And the Brits seem to be kings at this!!I think it's possibly more worrying than the younger generation who at least may grow out of it. We've probably all done wild things at some point in our younger days, but most of us leave it behind when we get older - for good and for bad. Some people on the forum think that makes older people sad, but I think it's about learning how to live your life...

By the way, have you noticed how TEFL teaching attracts those people "who have various issues in life" as you so delicately put it??


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## XTreme (May 17, 2008)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Some people on the forum think that makes older people sad, but I think it's about learning how to live your life...


Nothing to do with alcohol....or living a wild life. More a state of mind!

There's no rules in life that say when we get to a certain age we have to suddenly morph into boring and pedantic old people.

Example....Len Vale Onslow....got an award from the Queen and rode to the Palace on his motorcycle. At 100 years old! I think that's fantastic!

And you hear of older people taking up new interests like Martial Arts etc....and doing Open University degrees etc when they're the wrong side of 70. Again, I think that's fantastic!

Damn sight better way to live your life than playing computer games, watching Jeremy Kyle, or boring people senseless on Internet forums!


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