# Am I an Illegal Autonomo?



## CanaAutonomo (Feb 19, 2012)

Hi all, this is an incredibly silly situation I am in and unfortunately I know I wanted to have my cake and eat it too. I am legal in Spain *as far as I have a NIE *which did expire 2 years ago, and a Spanish passport. HOWEVER, I started as autonomo in March 2011. Now it is nearly March 2012, and I think I have not paid my "taxes" or done the incorrect invoicing.

The whole process seemed complicated. I don't speak Spanish well, and I wasn't sure how to file taxes etc.

I went to whatever office it is to declare myself as an autonomo (got the modelo 36), but I didn't follow the correct steps. I was supposed to go to some sort of tax office afterwards but never did that. For the last year I have been invoicing my companies, and declaring a 7 % deduction off of each invoice, but handing nothing into the government.

I work for a total of 3 companies, earning about 2700 euros per month (provided it isn't a month with too many holidays). I want to do this properly. 

I want to go to the autonomo office and just make up an excuse like "I stepped out of the country for the last 11 months and didn't know anything about Baja y alta of an autonomo. Now I want to work and go to the proper office to do my paperwork each month." I'm afraid they will tell me "you owe X amount of money per month for not going on baja for the months you were away."

I'm really screwed right now, but I need to get this in order. Any advice???


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

CanaAutonomo said:


> Hi all, this is an incredibly silly situation I am in and unfortunately I know I wanted to have my cake and eat it too. I am legal in Spain *as far as I have a NIE *which did expire 2 years ago, and a Spanish passport. HOWEVER, I started as autonomo in March 2011. Now it is nearly March 2012, and I think I have not paid my "taxes" or done the incorrect invoicing.
> 
> The whole process seemed complicated. I don't speak Spanish well, and I wasn't sure how to file taxes etc.
> 
> ...


Firstly, your NIE does NOT expire - it stays with you for life. The paperwork may need renewing, but that's all.

Regarding taxes etc. - I assume that you're not paying SS contributions either? What are you doing for health care? As far as I know, you have to submit 'returns' every 3 months so you certainly are in the 'clag'!



I would suggest going to an assessor and ask them for advice etc.


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Hi & Welcome

Sorry, I am confused. I presume from your profile you are canadian but you say you have a Spanish passport. Therefore you have Spanish citizenship? If so you wouldn't have an NIE but a NIF (me thinks). NIE's don't expire, they are with you for life. You say yours expired 2 years ago but a year ago you went autonomo?

If you have been doing IRPF deductions I am surprised nobody has caught up with you, I did a reclaim of tax once but it got held up because one client had not paid the IRPF... if you are doing IRPF then somewhere you have a tax record of these going on and if you have not been filing the quarterly returns for income tax, IRPF and IVA then they will want to know why and there may be fines etc.

If your Spanish is not good then I would find a good Gestor or Assesoria and get them to go to hacienda and get your files and sort it all out. I would't play the "i have been away" if you have been raising sales invoices and deducting IRPF from them as this won't wash... explain you got confused to your Gestor and get their advice and get them to fix it, but either way your going to have to get a return made up for all taxes, IVA etc and settle it up I am affraid!


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

snikpoh said:


> Firstly, your NIE does NOT expire - it stays with you for life. The paperwork may need renewing, but that's all.
> 
> Regarding taxes etc. - I assume that you're not paying SS contributions either? What are you doing for health care? As far as I know, you have to submit 'returns' every 3 months so you certainly are in the 'clag'!
> 
> ...


Great minds think alike! I didn't think about SS though... you are right, there will be back payments of that also... so at least a year of 250 a month! 

Sorry, not the news you want I am guessing but obviously if you are autonomo you have to pay these things. If you are NOT autonomo then I would have thought one of your clients would have been back in touch saying that the hacienda has rejected the IRPF deductions when they tried to pay them!

The problem with the Spanish tax authorities is they don't tend to write to say "you forgot your tax return: they just leave it sitting and waiting and then sting you... its your responsibility to file them and not theirs to remind you (in their opinion), so get to a professional and get the situation resolved and paid up before it gets even deeper!


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## DROOBY (Aug 5, 2008)

Hi there,

Have you been paying your monthly Autonomo payment? It is correct that you need to do quarterly tax declarations. If any are late you will receive a fine that does increase the the longer you leave it unpaid. 
Thinking you need to speak to someone and get it sorted ASAP. I have a good accountant who I'm sure would give you the proper advice. He is English if you want his contact details I can pm them to you.

D


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## CanaAutonomo (Feb 19, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> Firstly, your NIE does NOT expire - it stays with you for life. The paperwork may need renewing, but that's all.
> 
> Regarding taxes etc. - I assume that you're not paying SS contributions either? What are you doing for health care? As far as I know, you have to submit 'returns' every 3 months so you certainly are in the 'clag'!
> 
> ...


--------------------------------

Hi thank you for your opinion/advice. I have contributed to no SS. I have a degree *in my original country in Pharmacy so when I come down with something I rely on going to the pharmacy and convincing them that I know what I am talking about when it comes to "x" antibiotic to treat "x" condition.

I have contributed 0 returns so I am afraid now that if I do go to an assessor he/she may say "pay up for the last year." I don't have 2000 euros to put down all of a sudden for missed tax returns.


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## CanaAutonomo (Feb 19, 2012)

steve_in_spain said:


> Hi & Welcome
> 
> Sorry, I am confused. I presume from your profile you are canadian but you say you have a Spanish passport. Therefore you have Spanish citizenship? If so you wouldn't have an NIE but a NIF (me thinks). NIE's don't expire, they are with you for life. You say yours expired 2 years ago but a year ago you went autonomo?
> 
> ...


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Wow, amazing concrete advice. I am Canadian and I got my Spanish citizenship a year ago *due to a Spanish father. However, for bureaucratic B.S. reasons, *and this is one thing I did sort out, because I still use my Canadian Passport for some things here, I still have to utilize my NIE. 

And yes, the 7% that has been deducted from all my invoices has been for IPRF, and my academy has been taking that off from each paycheque...are they somehow involved now? Now, if I do have to settle up, would i have to pay for all those IPRF deductions in the last 12 months? That would be well over 2000 euros.

So best action- go to a Gestor, play the "long vacation card," don't acknowledge I have worked in the last year, or maybe down-play it and say I have worked for the last few months?


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## CanaAutonomo (Feb 19, 2012)

DROOBY said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Have you been paying your monthly Autonomo payment? It is correct that you need to do quarterly tax declarations. If any are late you will receive a fine that does increase the the longer you leave it unpaid.
> Thinking you need to speak to someone and get it sorted ASAP. I have a good accountant who I'm sure would give you the proper advice. He is English if you want his contact details I can pm them to you.
> ...


-----------------------------

Hi there, I am deep in sh** right now with this situation so your accountant's details would be great. I don't have 3000 euros to pay off all of a sudden, but if I could speak with him maybe we can sort this out and things could be paid off over a period of time. Regardless, it's become serious. Great, pass on his details. 

P.S.- And I know this is something to ask the accountant. But could I just go to the autonomo office and say I was out of the country for the last year, take "baja," and continue my job on contract and at a lower rate?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

CanaAutonomo said:


> -----------------------------
> 
> Hi there, I am deep in sh** right now with this situation so your accountant's details would be great. I don't have 3000 euros to pay off all of a sudden, but if I could speak with him maybe we can sort this out and things could be paid off over a period of time. Regardless, it's become serious. Great, pass on his details.
> 
> P.S.- And I know this is something to ask the accountant. But could I just go to the autonomo office and say I was out of the country for the last year, take "baja," and continue my job on contract and at a lower rate?


How can you say you've been out of the country when you've been paying IRPF??


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## CanaAutonomo (Feb 19, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> How can you say you've been out of the country when you've been paying IRPF??


Have no idea, maybe I will say I am in and out. Right now I have no idea what I will do. But if it's what people say, I will have to pay up for 250 euros per month that I did not pay over the period of 12 months (3000 euros), plus Social Security and all this other stuff. I think I owe thousands and thousands of euros. I need some sort of excuse, and take some responsibility of course, but there is no way I can pay up thousands of euros all at once! I just financially cannot do it.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

CanaAutonomo said:


> Have no idea, maybe I will say I am in and out. Right now I have no idea what I will do. But if it's what people say, I will have to pay up for 250 euros per month that I did not pay over the period of 12 months (3000 euros), plus Social Security and all this other stuff. I think I owe thousands and thousands of euros. I need some sort of excuse, and take some responsibility of course, but there is no way I can pay up thousands of euros all at once! I just financially cannot do it.


My advice is, don't lie - you fukced up, and you shouldn't have done. Any way if you atart telling stories they'll probably want some proof that you've been out of the country. Are you willing to falsify that as well? Besides which, they may be slow, but the tax authorities will catch up with you. Friends of mine have been investigated twice in the last 4 years. Luckily, they weren't doing anything illegal.
If you "confess" I believe there are ways of paying it back bit by bit. They will want their money so they give you ways to pay it back.
BTW I teach in Madrid and I pay about 260€ monthly to be autónomo and 15% IRPF. I'd love to do smth else and I speak fluent Spanish, but I haven't come up with what yet


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## CanaAutonomo (Feb 19, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> My advice is, don't lie - you fukced up, and you shouldn't have done. Any way if you atart telling stories they'll probably want some proof that you've been out of the country. Are you willing to falsify that as well? Besides which, they may be slow, but the tax authorities will catch up with you. Friends of mine have been investigated twice in the last 4 years. Luckily, they weren't doing anything illegal.
> If you "confess" I believe there are ways of paying it back bit by bit. They will want their money so they give you ways to pay it back.
> BTW I teach in Madrid and I pay about 260€ monthly to be autónomo and 15% IRPF. I'd love to do smth else and I speak fluent Spanish, but I haven't come up with what yet


Fair enough, thank you for the advice. I guess I will owe up to an English accountant, and get him/her to aid me through this process. If you say they are flexible with paying things back then I shouldn't freak out, no?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

CanaAutonomo said:


> Fair enough, thank you for the advice. I guess I will owe up to an English accountant, and get him/her to aid me through this process. If you say they are flexible with paying things back then I shouldn't freak out, no?


I'm not _sure_ about that, but someone on here will probably be able to tell you. 
I think you'll need an English speaking Spanish accountant rather than an English accountant.
I do wish you luck, but on the other hand that's why you've been earning so much - and I haven't!


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

> Wow, amazing concrete advice. I am Canadian and I got my Spanish citizenship a year ago *due to a Spanish father. However, for bureaucratic B.S. reasons, *and this is one thing I did sort out, because I still use my Canadian Passport for some things here, I still have to utilize my NIE.


That explains that one then!



> And yes, the 7% that has been deducted from all my invoices has been for IPRF, and my academy has been taking that off from each paycheque...are they somehow involved now? Now, if I do have to settle up, would i have to pay for all those IPRF deductions in the last 12 months? That would be well over 2000 euros.


You will have your social security (lets say a year) which will be 12 x 250 euros (3000) furthermore you will have IVA (depending on what your services are) which will be 18% of the gross figure of each invoice) PLUS you will have income tax of about 22% of your profit (income minus deductible expenses) but remember that 7% will come off that figure as your clients have paid it on your behalf.

So the amount you pay depends on your takings and your expenses but its gonna be a few thousand me thinks, Sorry!



> So best action- go to a Gestor, play the "long vacation card," don't acknowledge I have worked in the last year, or maybe down-play it and say I have worked for the last few months?


NOOOOOO - don't lie, you will be asked to proove it and frankly wherever you are, you have done invoices so returns have to be done. If you raise Spanish invoices you are tax resident here. I have spent a few months in the UK but still have to file my returns.

Get a SPANISH accountant who speaks english, explain everything and ask their advice. MAYBE they will let you come to an arrangement to pay it BUT don't hide from it, don't lie... it will come to bite you in the behind. The accountant will help you produce full account records and get a real idea of the situation. They will then be able to do the talking to the authorities on your behalf.

You have to deal with this FAST but be completely honest and just HOPE that they come to an agreement with you about paying... If you are going to plead anything don't lie, plead ignorance and just that you put it off and off and time ran away and now you need to sort it!

The 1st question they will ask is "why didn't you do anything?" I mean you said you were confused but why didn't you get professional help before... if you knew how to do an IRPS invoice then who taught you that? Cant you go to them for advice?


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## donz (May 5, 2010)

just reading through this, the main thing I see here is you cannot say you have been away because you have been raising invoices....there will be a paper trail so you WILL get caught out.

Is there a reason you have suddenly decided to get this sorted out? Or just conscience 

I think your best bet really is to find a good English speaking Gestor and get them to sort it out from start to finsih - you will have to tell them everything and then suck it up. As already mentioned, the money will have to be paid but they are so desperate I am pretty sure there will be ways of paying in some sort of installments

Don't forget you will also have to pay your Gestor a monthly fee too.....


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

steve_in_spain said:


> The 1st question they will ask is "why didn't you do anything?" I mean you said you were confused but why didn't you get professional help before... if you knew how to do an IRPS invoice then who taught you that? Cant you go to them for advice?


I'm not so sure they will ask that (except out of curiosity). They want the money - their job is to get the money. The whys and wherefores are not their business.
BTW teaching is not subject to VAT, at least English teaching isn't, and I pay 15% IRPF and it hasn't changed in light of new legislation


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## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm not so sure they will ask that (except out of curiosity). They want the money - their job is to get the money. The whys and wherefores are not their business.
> BTW teaching is not subject to VAT, at least English teaching isn't, and I pay 15% IRPF and it hasn't changed in light of new legislation


I wasn't sure what his line of work was, but yes if teaching then you're right (i need to learn to read more into the OP's comments!).

I think though that when it comes to the accountant or gestor arguing the case for a payment plan or some kind of agreement its always nice to have a reason why the problems... "i thought i could avoid paying tax" won't get much sympathy but "foreign and confused and thought it was something i had to do every year... sorry" might at least get the sympathy vote and help the OP to get a favourable agreement and maybe any penalties kept to a minimum!


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## CanaAutonomo (Feb 19, 2012)

steve_in_spain said:


> That explains that one then!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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I didn't do anything before because it was pure procrastination. I kept on thinking "two more months and then go to the office and clear things up....In 2 weeks when you have time go talk to someone who knows something about being an autonomo," it was a lot of "should have's" but I did nothing about it.

I was given the IRPS invoice template by an employer. He/She explained nothing to me but I figured out how to do it.

But you are right, pure ignorance is the only sympathy card I can play right now.


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