# Honest state of play



## jp_expat (Feb 18, 2014)

Hi,

I moved from SA in 1999 and have been living in the uk since. I have been naturalised in the UK so have dual UK / SA citizenship. 

Recently I've become more and more homesick and have an opportunity to return to SA but would like some honest and frank feedback on life in SA these days. 

I have a wife and 2 daughters (UK citizens) who I'll be uprooting so I really want to make sure I'm not putting them in any undue danger. I've read a lot of the SA papers online (IOL) and am worried about the crime etc, but my dad reckons most of this violence takes place in rural / semi rural areas. 

I am looking to move to Kloof area (KZN). I know it's not all good news back home but equally I'm not sure it's all bad either so would really appreciate any and all views of people 'on the ground' and your experience of a similar move and whether you are happy or regret anything.

Thanks in advance for your help.

JP


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## shumifan49 (Sep 18, 2013)

First of: Did you ask permission from the SA embassy for dual citizenship BEFORE you accepted UK citizenship? If you did not, then your SA citizenship has been lost, subject to the 'Resumption of citizenship' procedure, which requires you live in SA while you make the application for resumption of citizenship.
Check HA website for details.


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## jp_expat (Feb 18, 2014)

Hi Shumifan,

I've got the letter from the SA embassy saying they're happy for me to have dual nationality, so all good on that score 

JP


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## LegalMan (Dec 26, 2012)

The honest truth is a difficult thing to come by. This is because everyone seems to have a different view of it.

I always say: (piece of advice number one) if you have money and are well-off, South Africa will be great. Yes, there is crime, but this mostly affects poorer areas (fact). I also haven't had any grave crime committed to me or my family. My views are therefore more positive.

Contrast this with any South African who has been hijacked (etc) since 1990 and they will spurt a plethora of expletives on how our country is going down the toilet. Similarly many media trash-talk about SA as if they live here, which they don't. These views, like any that are too positive, are not to be believed.

So, piece of advice number two: You must come here first on a holiday and experience it a bit for yourself. Speak to people and get a feeling for the job market, etc. Only you can really decide if returning is a good thing, and while I may tell you it is, your perceptions are yours alone and you need to be here to feel them again.

Good luck!


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## jp_expat (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks very much for taking the time to reply LegalMan. I really appreciate it. 

Both very salient points and I couldn't agree more on the money front. Money doesn't buy happiness but it certainly makes life easier in SA. I visited SA in October last year (for a funeral - natural causes) and got the opportunity to speak to a few people on a golf day my dad invited me to and they said pretty much the same thing you said to me - so thats reassuring.

Your second point reaffirms my thinking of going out to SA first (for 6 months) to see what it's like to live and work there before bringing my family over but obviously this is a big commitment on my part which is why I was looking for others views of the state of play in SA, especially after the departure of Mandela and with the elections coming up etc....

Thanks again for your views

JP


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## arking (Jan 20, 2014)

Hi Jb

After 12 years in the UK, my hubby, I and 3 kids returned to SA in 2010 unfortunately my husband could not find a job after 10months and sadly we were forced to return to the UK. In 2010 SA was just starting a recession in the job market few companies were hiring, Now, nearly 4 years later we hope to return at the end of the year better prepared and hopefully to a job.

I can only speak from a personal view of returning to SA. I was terrified after hearing so many scary stories I think I literally froze myself with fear in JHB but I that couldn't have been further away from the truth. Yes there is crime but it does not paralyse a person. You get on with your life and you make changes in your life, for example driving with your windows up or driving alone at night etc. yes it's theses changes that you must be prepared to make if you want to live at home. 

It's it worth it for you.
For me it is as I'm very unhappy here in the England in this cold insulate society. I was very very happy in SA and so were my kids and I can't wait to return. 

There are many website offering advice, be careful of disgruntled Ex pats who will take any opportunity to put down SA. I have come across many in my time. But there are also positive expat blogs, check out the Homecoming Revolution. It offers wonderful inspirational stories and I love that people are not only painting SA as a land of milk and honey. It's a place of huge contrast. Have a look at disco pants blog ( a returning South African has some great blogs about her experience of returning) also check out Return to South Africa on Facebook. It is a great page offering advice to South Africans who have returned and how to adapt.
Good luck with your decision


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## Jem62 (Jul 25, 2012)

I am not specifically commenting on your plans since I've never lived in KZN, but if you were talking about CT, these days it is rare to hear of a crime outside of the townships, mainly among gangs who have fought each other for 200 years. Have a look at the 'return to SA' facebook group, it is populated by a large number of SA's who are returning or who have returned, it is particularly good to hear the views of those who have returned and have been here for a while. I left the UK after twenty years, fed up of the weather, exhausted by the life style of living to work and missing my family terribly. It has been worth it.


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

jp - I'll give you my spin on this - and I might get slammed for being one of those negative expats

I'm not slamming south africa but the crime is scary for me. When you live in affluent areas, the odds of being a victim of crime are significantly lower but not negligible. We live in an affluent area and had a violent home invasion 5 years ago (cape town), and my dad was just held hostage by a bunch of nigerians a week or so ago (pretoria). We do our due diligence, live in a 24/7 guarded estate, have armed response, electric fences, panic buttons, alarms etc. I have friends in greenpoint (cape town) who love it but they do the same with the alarms including having security doors inside of their flat because of multiple breakins / home invasion attempts. Your chances of being a victim to a crime are directly related to where you live and how much energy you put towards personal safety. As for rarely hearing about crimes outside of townships.... I think you should just google the news sites and look for yourself.

As for life here... there's tons to offer. It's a slower healthier pace of life than the US as far as I'm concerned. Health care is fine in the private sector - although I've been a bit jaded as I do have health issues beyond the norm and haven't found diagnostic practices adequate for my personal needs. I've been reading that the doctors in the public sector are actually better BUT most people don't want to go to those facilities because of the conditions. Others will tell you they have had better experiences than me. However, you don't need to be afraid of unsanitary conditions or outdated machinery. The private hospitals here look like hotels to be honest!!!

But here are the plusses for me:

1 - We are living in a beach-front home . This is something I'd never be able to do in the states.
2 - My kid goes to a montessori early education center at maybe a 10th of what it costs in the states
3 - Cheap domestic labor - I haven't mopped a floor in a year!
4 - Fine dining is so much cheaper
5 - It is beautiful here 

Finally - the cost of living is high here and inflation is as well. So consider that carefully as you plan your move. We earn dollars so it's fine, but for the work I do out here and get paid in rands for, the rates ( even at a consultant rate) wouldn't sustain our quality of life.


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## shumifan49 (Sep 18, 2013)

JP it's a bit like the whole country is like Brixton, except you can't avoid it.

The other part of the coin is that I expect that the UK will have more terrorist attacks. These are much more indiscriminate and fatal and as long as we are lackeys of the USA, the probability will increase. And if you live in the SouthEast, London is difficult to avoid.

The bigger danger is that criminals in SA most likely carry guns, whereas here in the UK that is very limited as personal guns are rarely allowed. However, the number of murders and general crime has increased here significantly in the 20 years I have been here (contrary to government figures - I watch the news LOL).

I remember my astonishment, when I arrived here, to see very expensive road making machinery parked on the side of the road, without guards or fences. These days farmers have to lock up their farm machinery and road works have cages where machinery is parked. We are also starting to suffer from telephone and electrical wire theft. But you should be aware of this.

I am also planning on moving back to SA to retire closer to my family. My biggest concern is trying to establish how much it costs to have a nice life down there. I managed to get some budgets from my niece indicating that standing costs are about R17000 per month excluding accommodation, running a car and internet, but including medical aid, armed response, groceries, rates and taxes etc. So realistically I guess that you need about R40 000 per month to have a reasonable life. But I cannot get confirmation of this. A close friend of mine earns R90 000 per month and I know he lives very nicely, but I have no idea of his mortgage costs, car costs and general entertainment costs. Also beear in mind that medical insurance will be double that of people that have been on medical aid before.

The hub of business is still pretty much Jo'burg, so jobs in Natal will be much harder to come by.


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## jp_expat (Feb 18, 2014)

Thank you all so much for taking the time to express your personal views on the living in SA. I really appreciate all the honest feedback. 

What are your guys thoughts on how the elections are going to go.... do you think there is any chance of the ANC losing seats? I'm concerned that if the results don't go their way (I don't think they'll lose power, but I do think they won't get as much a majority as they're looking for) they might kick up a bit of a civil war, especially if they lose them to the DA. 

Do you think I'm being overly pessimistic?

Thanks again for all your replies. Can't tell you how appreciative I am.

JP


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

Hey jp, 

I don't see the ANC losing to the DA significantly - not after the whole Mamphele Ramphele debacle. I also don't see a civil war breaking out. The DA has lost significant credibility but still stands as the only realistic opposition party.

This might sound silly but I never really saw SA at risk of a full blown civil war because there's nuclear power here - and countries with nuclear power aren't allowed to fall - at least not without foreign intervention.

I for one hope the ANC continues to lose seats because there can be no good leadership if they don't sweat during election time.... without that they will behave as if they can't be removed from power. Things need to keep getting shuffled...


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## jp_expat (Feb 18, 2014)

Hi MissGlobal,

I read about that on IOL, it is such a shame they couldn't make a go of it. I think it would have been such a good thing for the country. For what it's worth, I think it did more damage to Ramphele than the DA, but I guess the polls will tell us in due course. 

JP


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## arking (Jan 20, 2014)

Miss Global is spot on in her advice

When we lived in SA in 2010 we lived in a secure estate and I had a panic button. I never used it nor felt any danger to my life but its a consideration that we had to make. 
I have family living in lovely estates . They live wonderful lives their kids cycle ad play happily. But I also have family including my mother inlaw who lives in a stand alone house and even though she has ADT she doesn't know how to set it. She says she does not live in fear. Can you believe it. It seriously gives me shivers. 
Never the less I haven't had any family been involved in crime but I thank God for that, on saying that I have heard of many people involved in crime. Living in a secure estate is the sacrifice I am prepared to make and we had a relatively great outdoor life. Cycling early morning 94.7 etc etc. workouts in parks etc.
On the flip side I have had 2 burglaries twice since moving to Kent from Edinburgh. The Police were very good. A few weeks ago a neighbours car was stolen but recovered. Of course the crime is not violent as SA but it does happen.
On the political front. The ANC will definitely lose seats and the DA are a great contending party. It was a pity about Ramaphele but to be honest she has lost credibility here, a very interesting few months coming up. It certainly seems South Africans in all walks of life are GATVOL with the way the country is being run.


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## jp_expat (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks Arking. Sorry to hear you have experienced a buglary, its never nice. I'm in Edinburgh at the moment and we had an attempted break-in a few months ago, fortunately they didn't get in. 

I think having the right security precautions in place is a must in SA. If I do decide to bring the family over I think I will send my wife on the advanced driving courses that teach people how to be hijacked sucessfully etc (feels weird typing that  ).


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## arking (Jan 20, 2014)

I loved Edinburgh its a beautiful city but the winters are harsh. The best people in the world.
You know it may be a bit scary to go for a class like that but fully understandable. I read some great advice about how to avoid getting hijacked ( simple things like not pulling up to close to another car) or how to react in a situation it was posted on another SA expat blog. I will see if I can find it and re post. To be honest my family think I'm crazy when I talk about that as they live fairly normal lives but placing their it normal into context is being aware most times.

When worked at JHB Gen I would drive home late and at first it freaked me out but then I got used to the route and became more confident. I realised that I had worked myself into such a frenzy about the crime that I literally froze with fear as I'd never lived in JHb before. One day I was driving the kids to JHB zoo accidentally took a wrong turn landed up in downtown JHB I was panicking. But I stopped for help and the people didn't know how to direct me but they called the shop owner who helped me. Everyone was kind enough and I thought JHB centre was kinda cool but I don't know it so I avoided it and don't think I will be caught in the centre again. It's to big and one could get lost. On saying that there are great up and coming places in Braamfontein and many people converting warehouses into apartments, its just that one must know where to go and not get lost.

My family are in Durb's and the only thing they tend to complain about is the cost of living.


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

Oh - and spring for the film that you can have put on your car windows - to prevent smash and grabs. It's cheap and totally worth it....... It can also give you a few extra seconds if your hijackers don't have guns....


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## jp_expat (Feb 18, 2014)

eh? What's this film do and where can I get more information on it? 

I've never heard of this stuff so thanks for bringing it to my attention


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## 2fargone (Jun 14, 2011)

jp_expat said:


> eh? What's this film do and where can I get more information on it?
> 
> I've never heard of this stuff so thanks for bringing it to my attention


YES! This should be put on every car.

It's called Smash and Grab. You can google 'smash and grab' and find a place near you that will put it on for you.


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## jp_expat (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks 2fargone. I've had a quick look on Google, I'll need to have a look into this a bit further.

Always good to know what is available to you.


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## 2fargone (Jun 14, 2011)

jp_expat said:


> Thanks 2fargone. I've had a quick look on Google, I'll need to have a look into this a bit further.
> 
> Always good to know what is available to you.


Where I bought my car they had someone put it on for me. You can also do smash and grab with your windows tinted. Which I did. 

This link is from an insurance company talking about smash and grab
OUTsurance | Smash and grab prevention tips


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

Also - dealers will often offer it. We found out about it when buying our car. And we had it done with the tint... I can't remember how much it cost but I'm surprised it's not standard.


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## ady1976 (Nov 18, 2008)

Hi JP,

Just my 2 cents worth, I was born and bred in London and moved to Durban 5 years ago. Only had one incident which was having a very old (and unsecured) car stolen when parked many years ago.

My view is that I've learnt to be security consious from my time in London and probably feel safer in Durban than i did there in the last few years. However again just my opinion.

What I can tell you though is that my lifestyle is considerably better here than it ever was in London, i have a good job that pays reasonably well but its not a huge amount (about a 1/3 of what I earned in London) 

Dont get me wrong, crime is definitely an issue so you will have to make some lifestyle changes (i.e. dont walk the streets at night, burglar guards and electric fences) But if you have a decent income then life is good here.

I wouldnt worry about the elections personally. I would predict a slow decline for the ANC over the next 10 years but I'm no expert.

The one advantage that you have over many people here is your Uk Naturalisation, so if you ever feel like things are going to turn then you have a way out!

Good luck with your decision

Ad


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