# Visitor Visa Re-Entry Question, Please Help!



## Lilybug480 (Feb 21, 2012)

I was in the UK on a visitor visa from July 2012 and left in December 2012. I'm hoping to go back the first of April. I love it and even though I was there for so long, I didn't get the chance to see and do everything I wanted. I mainly stayed in the southern part of the country and I am hoping to visit the northern part of England and Scotland this time around. 

A chance has come available for me to stay at a friend's house (for free) while he is away at school (I will have a letter from him stating that as well). But it will be starting the first of April, only 3 months since I left, not the usual 6 months required. I have paperwork tying me to the states: I am gainfully employed with permission to take leave of absence again(I have been with my company for YEARS and yes, they are OK with this as long as I keep my clients happy ), I take care of an ailing relative (have a letter stating when I will need to be back to recuse the person that is looking after him now), have a home and bills and all of that, a return ticket...PLENTY ($20,000+) of funds to cover my stay and a free place to stay while I am there. 



My question is, I have read that usually you have to be gone for the same amount of time you stayed in the country. Will I just be automatically denied because I haven't been gone at least 6 months, or will the almost 4 months that I have been out of the country suffice?



Please help if you can...I would greatly appreciate it. The thought of being refused and having a black mark on my passport makes me a bit nauseas, but it's such a great opportunity!

Thanks!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Lilybug480 said:


> I was in the UK on a visitor visa from July 2012 and left in December 2012. I'm hoping to go back the first of April. I love it and even though I was there for so long, I didn't get the chance to see and do everything I wanted. I mainly stayed in the southern part of the country and I am hoping to visit the northern part of England and Scotland this time around.
> 
> A chance has come available for me to stay at a friend's house (for free) while he is away at school (I will have a letter from him stating that as well). But it will be starting the first of April, only 3 months since I left, not the usual 6 months required. I have paperwork tying me to the states: I am gainfully employed with permission to take leave of absence again(I have been with my company for YEARS and yes, they are OK with this as long as I keep my clients happy ), I take care of an ailing relative (have a letter stating when I will need to be back to recuse the person that is looking after him now), have a home and bills and all of that, a return ticket...PLENTY ($20,000+) of funds to cover my stay and a free place to stay while I am there.
> 
> ...


The general rule is that you can visit the you for 6 months out of 12 on a visitor visa. There is a very real possibility that you will be refused entry.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

I do believe that the_ unwritten_ rule of thumb for a USC visitor's visa to the UK is for a 6 month sojourn _once_ in every year... i.e. between July 1 2012 - June 30 2013 you could stay for 6 months from July -December, leave in December and then re-enter again for a visit after July 1 2013. 

If you'd stayed for shorter periods of time (i.e. 2-3 weeks), you'd have more flexibility in entering and quitting the UK... I visited twice between Boxing Day and the end of April (with an overnight to Paris on the second visit, so technically 3 visits)... each visit was ~2 weeks duration. I didn't encounter any problems at Heathrow or the border outpost at Gare du Nord, Paris. 

The only thing that I might suggest is for you to apply for a tourist visa. I know that visitors from Canasa and the USA don't normally need tourist visas, but in your case (wanting to return within months of leaving on a tourist visa), it might be worthwhile to inquire with your nearest British Consulate for advice as to how you should proceed. 

Good luck to you.


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## Lilybug480 (Feb 21, 2012)

Thank you both for your input.

I do understand the situation that I am in and that it is far from ideal. But I also understand that there have been occasions where the "leave-spent rule" is sometimes bypassed and the person given re-entry.

I feel like I have a strong enough case to make but I am not naive enough to think that I am any more special than anyone else attempting to do the same thing. But I do think I present a very good case of showing that I would not overstay my visa. 

I should have also noted that I am a US citizen.

I guess I'm hoping someone might have some feedback or that maybe they've been in the same situation before and can offer some tips.

It's so frustrating not knowing for sure, you know? 

I am not the kind of person that causes trouble so I am absolutely anxiety ridden over the thought of a refusal...though I know it's a real possibility.

I'm rambling now lol, but I realy do appreciate all of the help and feedback!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I am also inclined to get a general visit visa in advance. While there is a small chance of being refused outright, you want to avoid delays and hassle at UK border. Someone returning soon after 6 months is flagged up as potential visa violator and you don't want to take any chances, even though you think you have a strong case.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Lilybug480 said:


> Thank you both for your input.
> 
> I do understand the situation that I am in and that it is far from ideal. But I also understand that there have been occasions where the "leave-spent rule" is sometimes bypassed and the person given re-entry.
> 
> ...


The thing is no one can say for sure. Everything is at the discretion of the immigration officer that you happen to get on a particular day. Maybe you get lucky and maybe you don't. Keep in mind that immigration issues are a hot topic and there is increasing pressure for border agents to be more vigilante. Trying to enter 4 months after you've already spent 6 months in the UK is probably going to raise suspicion that you are trying to live here and/or work here. Not many Americans (or anybody for that matter) have the flexibility or ability to take that kind of time off work or the cash to support themselves for that length of time without working. You'll have to decide if that's a risk you're willing to take.


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## Lilybug480 (Feb 21, 2012)

Joppa said:


> I am also inclined to get a general visit visa in advance. While there is a small chance of being refused outright, you want to avoid delays and hassle at UK border. Someone returning soon after 6 months is flagged up as potential visa violator and you don't want to take any chances, even though you think you have a strong case.


Hi Joppa,

Thanks so much for the reply. Since US citizens don't require a visa beforehand, how do I go about getting one? Is this something I should use an immigration lawyer for? I have one at my disposal if that's the route I need to go but if not, I'm not sure how else to go about it.

Thanks for any continued help!


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## Lilybug480 (Feb 21, 2012)

nyclon said:


> The thing is no one can say for sure. Everything is at the discretion of the immigration officer that you happen to get on a particular day. Maybe you get lucky and maybe you don't. Keep in mind that immigration issues are a hot topic and there is increasing pressure for border agents to be more vigilante. Trying to enter 4 months after you've already spent 6 months in the UK is probably going to raise suspicion that you are trying to live here and/or work here. Not many Americans (or anybody for that matter) have the flexibility or ability to take that kind of time off work or the cash to support themselves for that length of time without working. You'll have to decide if that's a risk you're willing to take.


Thanks. It really is so frustrating to think that if someone was having a bad day they could so quicklyy ruin the next six months of your life. I understand it from their point of view, I really do. It's a shame people have taken such advantage of the more lax immigration laws of the past. I just hate that it ruins it for all of us. My parents (I'm 28) used to travel all over the world in their day witlh very little restrictions and it just (for lack of a better word) sucks that my generation is largely unable to do the same. At least not as easy. 

The Spent Leave Rule | Transpondia Immigration FAQ 

This link offered a bit of comfort and some good information, though as you said, there is no concrete guarantee that I'll get back in. 

Though, I didn't think about getting a visitor visa in advance as Joppa mentioned. I didn't even know if that was an option. Maybe that's the route to take?

Thanks again for all of your help!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

You don't need a lawyer to help you apply for a visit visa. Here is a link to the UKBA website regarding visit visas:


UK Border Agency | How to apply

As Joppa said, you can still be refused. You could also be granted a visa for a shorter period of time than you apply for.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

It would take less than 2 calendar weeks for you to get a decision once you sent in your application... this is according to the updates given on the UKBA's New York hub webpage... while there _is_ a consular office in Houston, _all_ non-settlement visa applications are processed at the consular offices in Manhattan.


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## Lilybug480 (Feb 21, 2012)

Hello again...I'm sorry to keep coming up with additional questions but I am just trying to make sure that I leave no stone unturned. 

Is it everyone's general consensus that the best thing for me to do is apply in advance? I have absolutely no problem doing that, but isn't there something to be said that they will be making their decision based solely on what is on paper and not by actually interviewing me? I am so nervous I am going to somehow screw this up and end up getting banned! That terrifies me! 

I know there is no real way to know for sure how any of this will pan out regardless of which option I choose. 

I really appreciate everything everyone has told me so far. I didn't realize that you could apply ahead of time since a visit visa for Americans is not typically needed. So I thought I had everything ready but that kind of throws me for a loop. 

Thanks in advance for any further replies!


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

I don't know what part of the Lone Star state you are in, but are you able to get to the Consulate in Houston?

If you are, I would recommend going down and asking to speak to someone there... tell them what you've told us (i.e. how you were in the UK for a 6 month visit and would really like to go back for another extended visit) and ask them what you should do to be able to legally go back for another visit. They should be able to give you some guidance as to what your options are... worst case scenario, you'll be advised to wait until after July 2013 to try to re-enter... it's practically February, so it's not much of a wait, and with a pile of civic holidays coming up, the time will go by quickly.

Even if you're not able to physically go down to the Consular offices, I'd still recommend that you try and call them and ask for information and or guidance... the telephone numbers that they list in that link aren't those G*d awful 900 toll numbers that a lot of governmental agencies seem so keen to want to use, so at least initial contact won't be much more than the cost of the call (assuming that it's long distance to call from where you are).

Good luck to you!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Lilybug480 said:


> Hello again...I'm sorry to keep coming up with additional questions but I am just trying to make sure that I leave no stone unturned.
> 
> Is it everyone's general consensus that the best thing for me to do is apply in advance? I have absolutely no problem doing that, but isn't there something to be said that they will be making their decision based solely on what is on paper and not by actually interviewing me? I am so nervous I am going to somehow screw this up and end up getting banned! That terrifies me!


I think the general consensus would be to wait until you you have been out of the UK for 6 months or longer before you visit again. If refused a visa in advance or entry at the border it's unlikely you'll be banned but you will need to apply for a visa for any future visits you wish to make to the UK.



> I know there is no real way to know for sure how any of this will pan out regardless of which option I choose.
> 
> I really appreciate everything everyone has told me so far. I didn't realize that you could apply ahead of time since a visit visa for Americans is not typically needed. So I thought I had everything ready but that kind of throws me for a loop.


Most Americans don't need to apply for a visa ahead of time. But, there are a few instances where they must like if they have any previous convictions.

It's really unlikely that the Houston Consulate will see you much less be able to help you with visa queries. Consulates mainly assist UK citizens with things like replacing lost passports or registering births and promote UK trade. It's doubtful that they have any staff dedicated to issuing UK visas to Americans.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

All visa-related queries are routed to NY, and telephone lines are manned by WorldBridge staff, who just read from prepared script taken from immigration rules. You will not get a personal reply for your exact circumstance. You will get it here, or on payment from a professional immigration lawyer or advisor.


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## Lilybug480 (Feb 21, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the replies!

While I know it isn't an ideal situation, I feel like I should try to get back, even if it's not for the enite ideal six month stay. I do feel I have a strong case and I feel like turning down a free place to stay is crazy. The timing for everything lines up too perfectly for me. I have someone looking after my father until Sept, I will have leave from my job until Sept, the funds to cover everything and then some, and the huge desire to see northern England and Scotland!

Obviously, there are situations where they don't follow the "spent-leave rule" or else it would be law, right? I may be completely off base in thinking that, but I am perhaps a stupidly optimistic person. 

I also know that in the end no one can really answer except for me but do you all feel that applying in advance would be better than in person at the border? I'm very torn as to which would be the best approach.

Sorry to keep pestering, guys!

PS. I'm in Dallas and Joppa is right. The consulates really can't do anything to help me unfortunately.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Let me put it this way.
Advantage of getting a visa in advance: You wil be 99% certain of being let in, with no nasty surprise at border, when jetlagged etc.
Disadvantage: Cost and hassle of application, but it's only $129 and takes maximum of two weeks.

Advantage of chancing at UK border: If they let you in, you will have saved visa fees and bother.
Disadvantage: You can be refused entry, and put on the next flight home, wasting your air fare. You will also get a mark on your passport and an adverse entry on immigration database. You will face hassle each time you try to enter UK, and at every application for a visa. And you cannot use priority or premium service.

No contest for me.


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## MovingOUTofFrance (Nov 1, 2012)

In the past I entered the UK several times on visitor visas - sometimes even a few times spending 8-9 months a year as a visitor but my case might be different. They questioned me but when I was able to prove that I have no need for overstaying or doing anything illegally in UK - they had no issues letting me in. Carry your documentation along, be honest completely if you lie and they catch you then you are done for life with the UK....just tell them the truth as it is. If you have intentions of staying and working under the table in UK for some reason - then be sure they will find out and refuse your entry. Also is your house in USA mortgaged or fully paid for? That might help...unfortunately just $20,000 is not enough to satisfy the Border staff...they need to see enough resources and backing that you won't be "tempted" to work under the table or do some business illegally in UK...they must be convinced that you are only entering to enjoy living there nothing else....also ailing relatives or other such family ties back home don't make a rats difference to UK border officials. They only thing they are concerned about is that you have solid financial backing in the US to want to return back there and not be tempted to do anything illegally in UK...if you have further doubts and don't want to waste your trip completely then fly into Paris or Brussels and take the Eurostar to London - this way the border checks are in France / Belgium and if they refuse entry to you then you can always say you were allowed into France without issues....worst case at least you can stay back in France if nothing else.


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