# Engineers Australia Feedback - Transport Engineer – Need help!



## tanguym92 (Dec 8, 2016)

Hi everyone,

I submitted my application to Engineers Australia to be assessed as a Transport Engineer (Professional Engineer) and received an extensive feedback on my career episodes. I have a few concerns and would really appreciate some help!

1/ feedback is extensive and technical, has anybody received something like that before?

2/ should I re-write totally my career episodes or just add paragraphs to the existing ones? I feel a bit depressed… I think I had the wrong approach in the first place and would really like some advice to get it right this time. I have coordinated multi-disciplinary teams for the feasibility/preliminary design of rail projects (it can be quite broad). I focused my career episodes on technical aspects but included project management tasks. Should I should try to focus only about any specific design (e.g. geometric design) and the process of it, and not speak about the entire project (which include geometric alignment, earthworks, drainage, environment, etc.)?

3/ I can´t totally attend comments on career episode 2. Can I simply explain why or it won´t be enough and I should change career episodes (and can I change career episode)?

4/ If I don´t get approved as Professional Engineer, can I re-apply for Engineering Manager? What are the implications of having one certification or another?

5/ Can I copy EA feedback here in the forum? Or send my CDR so it becomes clearer?

Thank you very much!


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

tanguym92 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I submitted my application to Engineers Australia to be assessed as a Transport Engineer (Professional Engineer) and received an extensive feedback on my career episodes. I have a few concerns and would really appreciate some help!
> 
> ...



hello,
can you post the feedback of EA here ?? please hide your personal details


modifying the career episodes to incorporate EA's comments will be good


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## hasansins (Sep 28, 2016)

How do you expect people to help you when you didn't even post EA feedback?


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## mnmedipa (Sep 9, 2016)

hasansins said:


> How do you expect people to help you when you didn't even post EA feedback?


Let ppl know the feedback 

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk


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## tanguym92 (Dec 8, 2016)

Sorry, I was not sure I could share the feedback and it is quite long:

GENERAL FEEDBACK FOR ALL CAREER EPISODES

To support your CDRs, please present your exposure into transportation engineering methodology details. Show your consideration within the general transportation engineering design methodology on your projects to understand your engineering value.

For example. What would you do to confirm that the design options are aligned with the project constructability and project program requirements ? Place a particular emphasis on the nature and timing of the interface between transportation options and the environment.

Give details of :
-	Your design review that you completed to determine which transportation solutions were required and the appropriate standards that were applicable ;
-	Demonstrating your consideration of geometric design issues in the context suitability ;
-	Your communication with other consultants such as getting geotechnical, environmental, architectural, landscape advice ;
-	What unusual assessment was completed by you ? For example, an assessment of the proximity to existing traffic and loadings during construction to determine their influence on the design ; or identification of likely constructability issues, environmental and social constraints ;
-	Concept design calculations that were carried out by you to determine the suitability of solutions and to confirm capacity of the permanent layouts ;
-	Your input into integration of the transportation design with urban design strategy ;
-	Ethical concerns, such as Safety in Design workshop and Risk Management workshop ; reviews, following the completion of the initial designs, a round of reviews including peer reviews, inter-disciplinary reviews and construction reviews ; finalisation of the concep tlayout – final concept designs that were completed following receipt of comments from a range of reviewers

ADDITIONAL SPECIFIC FEEDBACK ON CAREER EPISODE 2

Provide details relevant to Road design and Road Safety Audit Methodology ; Describe the RSA methodology as follows :
-	Describe the inception meeting with the design team. What methodology you utilise to familiarise with the project, determine any design issues and constraints and review background documentation and concept design plan ?
-	What safety issues have been considered ? Describe safety consideration details of all road users including light and heavy vehicles, pedestrians, cyclists, motorcycle riders and public transport.

Traffic assessment
-	What traffic assessment has been considered ? For example the Safe Intersection Sight Distance (SISD) assessments ?
-	Describe the evaluation of accessibility and subdivision of the proposed developments. How did you evaluate improvements to the road space within the local traffic area ?
-	What assessment of existed and proposed traffic volumes was completed ? Describe established measures which were implemented to alleviate safety concerns.


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## tanguym92 (Dec 8, 2016)

Also, my career episodes are:
1: patronage and revenue forecast for a new high speed rail line and economic and financial analysis - responsible for travel demand modelling and economic/financial modelling
2: optimisation/modification of the concept design of a new high speed rail line - responsible for the coordination of the "infrastructure and environment" sub-system (alignment, earthworks, drainage, hydraulics, environment, landscape)
3: feasibility study of a new freight rail corridor - responsible for the coordination of the "operation and signalling" sub-system

About the feedback on career episode 2, road interventions were limited on my project (no road level crossings –there were re-alignment of roads to pass under or over the railway). A traffic assessment had already been made previously and only an update was provided within the environmental assessment. Also no Road Safety Audit was conducted at this stage. I can still mention road traffic and road safety aspects that were considered in the re-design of roads, I can also speak about rail traffic and rail safety. I can say I know the Road Safety Audit methodology but it wasn´t applied on this project.

About the feedback on all career episodes, I can respond to all of them (mostly), but basically there are many things that I didn´t do alone, but with the project team. I had sometimes some involvement in a specific field (contributions to the geometric design for career episode 2 for example), maybe I should focus on that. Episode 1 is a bit different (no design), but I still can answer some of the points.

Thanks again!!


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## hasansins (Sep 28, 2016)

It seems they weren't satisfied with what you wrote to your CDR. Maybe they just couldn' t believe you did all these by yourself therefore, asking you for details on how you accomplished your projects. Remember CDR is "how I did it" not "how we did it".


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## tanguym92 (Dec 8, 2016)

hasansins said:


> It seems they weren't satisfied with what you wrote to your CDR. Maybe they just couldn' t believe you did all these by yourself therefore, asking you for details on how you accomplished your projects. Remember CDR is "how I did it" not "how we did it".


Yes, I think I definitly did not have the right approach in writing my CDR. In my CDR, I focused on things I have done by myself but obviously I did not include the right elements.

Maybe I did not chose well my career episodes, but this was the evolution of my career in 10 years time, which focused on the feasibility stage of rail investments from traffic/economic modeling -> coordination of infrastructure -> coordination of the whole system (including operation/signalling..). I did a short intensive course on railway engineering (before moving from traffic to start to coordinate projects) and I did not coordinate the projects alone (there was a project director and a co-coordinator), maybe that is the issue, and maybe the coordination role is the issue. The project team is varying between projects but is maybe around 20 people, and each specialist team, let´s take geotehnics/earthworks for example, has its own manager with like +20 years experience, who will check the design and calculations. I will check the consistency of the whole and its adequation to the terms of references / project requirement globally.


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

You dont have to re-write your CDR completely. Just remove unnecessary details and add what they want. 
Its nit mandatory design to be included in all career episodes. 1 is enough. But give them more details. Step by step. And add who reviewed your design. For example in my husbands CE we told "I designed ... using following methodology: 1...2...3...etc." After we told "my design outcome was reviewed by structural consultants and after getting positive feedback I started to proceed works".
If they want to see smth and you actually didnt do but you know procedure - tell that you did.
Remember that its assessing skills & knowedge - not what you are actually doing but what you know and what you can do also. 
Some points of their feedback we ignored honestly - for example about risk managment and "your input in structural designing" and concentrated on most important details.
Aim of EA is to evaluate your ability to solve "complex engineering issues", to analyze, evaluate, make decision and designing skills. They are concerned that PE has to know designing.
Ethical conerns are easy but also necessary. Add few words about it in every episode. For us EA's Code of ethics was helpfull - we understood what do expect
And check your summary statement - may be half of details which they meant are in your episodes but you didnt reflect it in SS so they didnt considered them as existing. 
You are working hard last 10 years, spend some time, show your best. For us it took about 3 months to rectify CDR but it worth it.
You deserve more than engineering technologist


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

My guess - you will get assessment, just give them little more information, otherwise you would get feedback "based on provided cdr our best outcome can be...(manager, technologyst, whatever...)"

And I forgot - thats good tgat you mentioned project managment tasks as PE role is "plan, design, organize and oversee....". One our CE was about project managment


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## tanguym92 (Dec 8, 2016)

Ola.V said:


> You dont have to re-write your CDR completely. Just remove unnecessary details and add what they want.
> Its nit mandatory design to be included in all career episodes. 1 is enough. But give them more details. Step by step. And add who reviewed your design. For example in my husbands CE we told "I designed ... using following methodology: 1...2...3...etc." After we told "my design outcome was reviewed by structural consultants and after getting positive feedback I started to proceed works".
> If they want to see smth and you actually didnt do but you know procedure - tell that you did.
> Remember that its assessing skills & knowedge - not what you are actually doing but what you know and what you can do also.
> ...


Thanks very much for all your tips, it helps a lot. So you had also this kind of detailed feedback from EA (maybe not that many details! - I think I actually read your initial thread)?

I have quite a few things to change in my CDR I guess and I realize I may not have been enough specific in my summary statement - thanks for the advice. For the design aspect, I had a real role in the geometric design for one project, but a civil drafter did the design on Autocad, I didn´t do it all by myself, it´s not an issue, is it? In relation to calculations, should I include some formulas in my CE, and some graphics as well?

The difficult thing is also that these projects were done quite a few years ago (5, 7 and 10 years ago) so it is sometimes hard to remember every details (also, I don´t have any more access to the project files), but I´ll try to be as specific as possible.

With regards to being assessed as Professional Engineer, Engineering Technologist or Engineering Manager, the difference is just about the number of invitations, or does it limit the type of work you can do once you´re in Australia?

I would be interested in seeing some CDR examples for civil engineer or transport engineer. Would anyone accept to share his CDR with me - or know where I can find some (good) examples online?

Thanks again.


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

Yep, we had tough time with "designing"). Our feedback was not so big as yours but same meaning - show your design review, methodology, input in structural engineering, ethical concerns...
About design - cant tell for sure honestly. But if you have done actual design and drafter only created a drawing - its up to you what to tell. We have put few formulas but not much, like "I computed loads using following formula..." but am not sure if its really necessary.
It doesnt matter how many years back it was. If its difficult to remember - google smth similate to refresh your memories.
Assessment will not affect your employment. Only visa process. For example, for PE you need 60 points, for ET 65. And for EM I dont know, you can check on DIBP website.
Even our assessor told initially "EA cant assess you as PE, only EA but you can be employed as civil engineer"


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## tanguym92 (Dec 8, 2016)

Ola.V said:


> Yep, we had tough time with "designing"). Our feedback was not so big as yours but same meaning - show your design review, methodology, input in structural engineering, ethical concerns...
> About design - cant tell for sure honestly. But if you have done actual design and drafter only created a drawing - its up to you what to tell. We have put few formulas but not much, like "I computed loads using following formula..." but am not sure if its really necessary.
> It doesnt matter how many years back it was. If its difficult to remember - google smth similate to refresh your memories.
> Assessment will not affect your employment. Only visa process. For example, for PE you need 60 points, for ET 65. And for EM I dont know, you can check on DIBP website.
> Even our assessor told initially "EA cant assess you as PE, only EA but you can be employed as civil engineer"


Still working on my CDR, following your tips. One more little question... is it useful/recommended to add figures/illustrations to teh career episodes?


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## ibbz87 (Jun 30, 2016)

tanguym92 said:


> Still working on my CDR, following your tips. One more little question... is it useful/recommended to add figures/illustrations to teh career episodes?


figures etc. are not recommended.
keep it as simple as possible

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

ibbz87 said:


> figures etc. are not recommended.
> keep it as simple as possible
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


i made good use of drawings, process flow and equations in my CDRs, there wasnt any issue


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## tanguym92 (Dec 8, 2016)

Thanks for your responses! Sorry I am finalizing my documents and have another doubt... I have now between 2000 and 2500 words per career episodes. In the MSA Booklet, it says that each narrative should be a minimum of 1000 and maximum of 2500 words, so it should be OK. However, in the approximate words count per section (introduction, background, personal eng. activities...), it is less (max would be 1700 following recomended ranges). For example, for personal activities, it says 500-1000 words, and I have much more (up to 2000), do you think it is an issue? As I am trying to respond to all the comments I have received, it is difficult for me to reduce text. So I really hope it is not an issue...
Regarding my summary statement, I have now 7 pages.


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

tanguym92 said:


> Thanks for your responses! Sorry I am finalizing my documents and have another doubt... I have now between 2000 and 2500 words per career episodes. In the MSA Booklet, it says that each narrative should be a minimum of 1000 and maximum of 2500 words, so it should be OK. However, in the approximate words count per section (introduction, background, personal eng. activities...), it is less (max would be 1700 following recomended ranges). For example, for personal activities, it says 500-1000 words, and I have much more (up to 2000), do you think it is an issue? As I am trying to respond to all the comments I have received, it is difficult for me to reduce text. So I really hope it is not an issue...
> Regarding my summary statement, I have now 7 pages.


as far as I remember i never checked word count in this much detailed way

i just checked for overall word count and it was more or less near the set limit


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## tanguym92 (Dec 8, 2016)

sultan_azam said:


> as far as I remember i never checked word count in this much detailed way
> 
> i just checked for overall word count and it was more or less near the set limit


It should be ok then, great, thanks!

I really appreciate your help and I hope you won´t mind too much if I continue with some additional questions....

In the summary statement, it says you have to write "a brief summary of how you have applied the element". I´ve tried to be specific, however, I still have some general statements, such as: "determined adequate transport solutions that meet project requirements" or "collected data to support analysis". I am not sure if it is OK of it is too general. Making general statements enable me to refer to several career episodes paragraphs at the same time, if I am more specific, then I need to repeat the same competency element for each career episodes describing how i did that in more details.

Any advice welcome!

I must say I am having a difficult time revising my CDR and I am really grateful to this forum and to you members! Sorry if I ask too much...


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

tanguym92 said:


> It should be ok then, great, thanks!
> 
> I really appreciate your help and I hope you won´t mind too much if I continue with some additional questions....
> 
> ...


I found the summary statement most painful and the jargons blew my mind.

better not to generalise the things, be specific and mention points related to them, I understand this will increase your work but it will be for good


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## tanguym92 (Dec 8, 2016)

sultan_azam said:


> I found the summary statement most painful and the jargons blew my mind.
> 
> better not to generalise the things, be specific and mention points related to them, I understand this will increase your work but it will be for good


Yes, I agree, the jargons are terrible and it IS painful!! And there are some repetition in the indicators.
Ok then.... I will try to detail... arghhh!!
Thanks again


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## RICTON (Oct 2, 2016)

tanguym92 said:


> Thanks for your responses! Sorry I am finalizing my documents and have another doubt... I have now between 2000 and 2500 words per career episodes. In the MSA Booklet, it says that each narrative should be a minimum of 1000 and maximum of 2500 words, so it should be OK. However, in the approximate words count per section (introduction, background, personal eng. activities...), it is less (max would be 1700 following recomended ranges). For example, for personal activities, it says 500-1000 words, and I have much more (up to 2000), do you think it is an issue? As I am trying to respond to all the comments I have received, it is difficult for me to reduce text. So I really hope it is not an issue...
> Regarding my summary statement, I have now 7 pages.


Dear tanguym
Happy New year.

Keep your word count at least 1700(Minimum) also follow the guidance of the sectional word count. and all will be ok.

Regards
RicTon


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## RICTON (Oct 2, 2016)

sultan_azam said:


> i made good use of drawings, process flow and equations in my CDRs, there wasnt any issue


Dear sultan_azam

Happy new year.

Yes drawings, process flow and equations make great difference when used, provided they are minimum since they are easy to understand, furthermore,for some of us English is not our first language

Regards
RicTon


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## tanguym92 (Dec 8, 2016)

Hi!

I am writing to say I submitted my CDR again after hours of rework and it was accepted by EA, so I got approved as Transport Engineer. 

Thanks again for all your help, it was so useful, I think I wóuldn´t have been successfull without your support!

It is my turn to give some advice:
- keep it to technical engineering
- be specific, give details on the sequence of your work (following engineering methods), if your scope was too broad, try to focus on one specific aspect
- put as much as possible in the summary statement

Also, for the career episodes, I used the the first sentence of each paragraph to clearly state what I did and what skills I applied. I used active sentences such as: I calculated, verified, determined, etc. I provided further details and evidence in the continuation of the paragraph. I think it helped, because this way assessors have direct and quick access to the information and don´t have to look for it. Maybe it doesn´t make any difference, but I found that in all cases it improved the structure of my career episodes.

Finally, I looked at some examples available on the site gettingdownunder.com, they are a bit outdated, but it helped me to understand better what was expected.

This is it. Now I still have to do my english test and get 7+ on ielts (or +65 on PTE), I hope it won´t be too difficult.

Cheers


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## RICTON (Oct 2, 2016)

tanguym92 said:


> Hi!
> 
> I am writing to say I submitted my CDR again after hours of rework and it was accepted by EA, so I got approved as Transport Engineer.
> 
> ...


tanguym92,

congrats for your achievements


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

tanguym92 said:


> Hi!
> 
> I am writing to say I submitted my CDR again after hours of rework and it was accepted by EA, so I got approved as Transport Engineer.
> 
> ...


congratulations and good luck for next step


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## badermushta (Mar 20, 2018)

Very congratulates for your EA positive outcomes. Could you please share the final CDR after incorporating all comments from EA as a sample, so that I could get some glimpse out of it. There are so many on the internet but they are simply neither approved one nor the true reflection ?


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