# Previous DUI ban and fine - will it effect visa application



## sherson (Feb 1, 2012)

About two and a half years ago my fiance received a 3 month ban and a fine after being caught Drink driving and we are worried that it will effect his visa. He has sent off for a police report so we know where we stand although, we are aware that it will be an unspent offence and will have to be declared. He was just over the limit (no excuse) - we will obviously expand the information on his visa to explain what happened and that it was out of character etc..... do you think this will mess up his chances of being granted a visa? 

Any help/advice appreciated


----------



## mme (Jan 3, 2012)

It shouldn't as long as the case is closed and all fines paid. I had a dui 9 years ago, and I know in filling out the Spouse application, I did state it, along with the case number. I haven't submitted it yet, so I don't know if I will need to send any supporting documents regarding it.


----------



## sherson (Feb 1, 2012)

mme said:


> It shouldn't as long as the case is closed and all fines paid. I had a dui 9 years ago, and I know in filling out the Spouse application, I did state it, along with the case number. I haven't submitted it yet, so I don't know if I will need to send any supporting documents regarding it.


Thanks for the quick response it has just got us a bit worried but we will explain in the further information area and submit the police report - hopefully this will be ok! Getting nervous as we are almost ready to submit everything!


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

sherson said:


> Thanks for the quick response it has just got us a bit worried but we will explain in the further information area and submit the police report - hopefully this will be ok! Getting nervous as we are almost ready to submit everything!


Unspent drink-drive conviction is one of those offences that can make you ineligible for settlement or British citizenship (under 'good character' requirement). While it isn't a requirement for spouse or fiancé(e) visa, it can be a negative factor. So give as much details as you can, including your defence submission (if any) and mitigating circumstances, and hope for the best.


----------



## sherson (Feb 1, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Unspent drink-drive conviction is one of those offences that can make you ineligible for settlement or British citizenship (under 'good character' requirement). While it isn't a requirement for spouse or fiancé(e) visa, it can be a negative factor. So give as much details as you can, including your defence submission (if any) and mitigating circumstances, and hope for the best.


This is what has us worried, he has obtained a collection of good character references from previous employees and one from when he volunteered for the fire brigade - how would he go about getting his defence submission mitigating circumstances that you mention? will that be in his police report?


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

sherson said:


> This is what has us worried, he has obtained a collection of good character references from previous employees and one from when he volunteered for the fire brigade - how would he go about getting his defence submission mitigating circumstances that you mention? will that be in his police report?


Possibly, but I don't know how the US(?) judiciary works. If he was represented by a lawyer, perhaps he may have a record of what was presented to the court in his defence, or it may be in the court record. If he can't find it or he was unrepresented, send in 'good character' reference from someone who knows him well but not a relative. In his own submission to the UKBA (attach a letter to his application together with police report etc in his supporting documents, labelled 'DUI conviction'), he should first of all accept he was in the wrong and take full responsibility for it, he deeply regrets it, he doesn't have drink problem, he has learnt a bitter lesson and it will never happen again. As you know, drink-driving is no longer socially acceptable in UK and offenders are severely punished, so the more he shows his awareness of the gravity of the offence, the better.


----------



## sherson (Feb 1, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Possibly, but I don't know how the US(?) judiciary works. If he was represented by a lawyer, perhaps he may have a record of what was presented to the court in his defence, or it may be in the court record. If he can't find it or he was unrepresented, send in 'good character' reference from someone who knows him well but not a relative. In his own submission to the UKBA (attach a letter to his application together with police report etc in his supporting documents, labelled 'DUI conviction'), he should first of all accept he was in the wrong and take full responsibility for it, he deeply regrets it, he doesn't have drink problem, he has learnt a bitter lesson and it will never happen again. As you know, drink-driving is no longer socially acceptable in UK and offenders are severely punished, so the more he shows his awareness of the gravity of the offence, the better.



Hi Joppa 
Thanks for the reply, my fiance currently lives in Australia and he represented himself at the time. He has a good selection of 'good character' references from people that work in the community (employers, teachers etc). We will just have to be honest and submit all the info with a letter of apology as you suggested and hope for the best. The 'limbo' period is so nerve wracking and stressfull. we are well prepared just waiting on his police report which can take up to 15 day before we submit. He was hoping for a May arrival if the visa is granted but I suppose it all depends on the processing timescales. 

Thanks again - you're advice has been very helpful


----------



## sherson (Feb 1, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Possibly, but I don't know how the US(?) judiciary works. If he was represented by a lawyer, perhaps he may have a record of what was presented to the court in his defence, or it may be in the court record. If he can't find it or he was unrepresented, send in 'good character' reference from someone who knows him well but not a relative. In his own submission to the UKBA (attach a letter to his application together with police report etc in his supporting documents, labelled 'DUI conviction'), he should first of all accept he was in the wrong and take full responsibility for it, he deeply regrets it, he doesn't have drink problem, he has learnt a bitter lesson and it will never happen again. As you know, drink-driving is no longer socially acceptable in UK and offenders are severely punished, so the more he shows his awareness of the gravity of the offence, the better.


Hi Joppa, just a wee update - my fiance received his police check today and this is what it says: 

Standard Disclosure 
All Recorded Unspent Offences Released 
Name Check Only 

This is to certify that there are *no disclosable court outcomes* recorded against the name of xxxxx xxxxxxx born on xxx xxxxx xxxx

In the records of the Australian Federal Police and the police in all Australian states and Territories as at 22 February 2012 

This document is not issued as form of identification 



Whats your take on this Joppa?
Does this mean that we do not have to disclose the DUI charge? or are we best to mention it anyway? 

Thanks again


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

sherson said:


> Hi Joppa, just a wee update - my fiance received his police check today and this is what it says:
> 
> Standard Disclosure
> All Recorded Unspent Offences Released
> ...


I don't know. I'm not familiar with Australian regulations. Normally you would disclose offence as serious as drink-driving, and two and a half years ago is still quite recent, so I'd suggest you disclose it with a covering letter. 
Better to be seen as honest than trying to hide!


----------



## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

A DUI lawyer will have NOTHING AT ALL to do with this since it is already litigated. 

Disclose the DUI and explain it in your covering letter, emphasizing that you've matured and it will never happen again.


----------



## Probbo (Jan 9, 2014)

Hello sherson,

I have followed your thread and I know it's been some time now but so thrilled to learn that the visa was granted. Could you kindly let me know if you guys ended up disclosing the DUI and if so what supporting documentation did you supply for it?

Congrats again.


----------



## tangotango (May 12, 2014)

It is a sham there is no update on THis. Not sure where it states they got their visa. Probbo how did you get on? Did you disclose and if so what was the outcome and what supporting documents did you submit.

My fiancee is in a similar position where in 2011 she had a 6 month ban and a fine but no points were taken off her licience and a recent police check on any crimial confictions she has on record retured none, She is from australia but comitted the offence in New Zealand. We dont know what to do. Lawyers have given us mixed advise.


----------



## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

Just to be clear: you **MUST** disclose. It is not an option. If you don't and get caught, you could get a ten year ban. Just disclose it and give details. 

You can't escape the consequences of your actions but you can show maturity by showing that you accept those consequences.


----------



## tangotango (May 12, 2014)

Yeah you are right.

So can they decline the visa for the drink drive conviction alone?

Also if we did get the finance visa are we then garenteed a Marrigae visa assuming our circumstances stay the same?

Also how does settlement work. Could we end up married but no garentees she gets settlement because of the conviction


----------



## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

No, getting a fiancé visa doesn't guarantee that you'll be approved for FLR(M). You have to apply and meet all the requirements.


----------



## tangotango (May 12, 2014)

So if she doesn't get flr(m) can she remain in uk as long as we are together but not have full citizenship?


----------



## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

No, if she doesn't get flr(m) then she must leave the UK inspite of being your wife. I am sure one of the moderators will let you know if I am wrong in saying this.


----------



## spbos (Mar 28, 2014)

Kimi2490 said:


> No, if she doesn't get flr(m) then she must leave the UK inspite of being your wife. I am sure one of the moderators will let you know if I am wrong in saying this.


Yes, that is correct. FLR(M) is leave to remain and without that a spouse can't continue to live in the UK.


----------



## tangotango (May 12, 2014)

So we could get married and after 5 years she has to leave the uk? Is there not a human rights issue??


----------



## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

Well it is unlikely to happen , however I think in your case you are worrying about the impact of the DUI right? Well truth be told, in our case, we meet all requirements, but my biggest recurring nightmare always is that what if 5 years down the line by some stroke of ill fate, we both lose our jobs? Because if this terrible but not entirely unlikely thing were to happen, we would no longer meet the financial requirement and yes, in spite of being married to him and having lived with him for 5 years in the UK, I would very much have to pack my bags and go back to my home country, with the option of him joining me  :/

It's how the cookie crumbles! We just have to meet all three requirements of - 1. genuine relationship 2. Appropriate accommodation and 3. Financial requrements each time till I get my indefinite leave to remain and or British citizenship , down the line.... scary eh? Every time he has a run off the mill disagreement with his supervisors or colleagues at work, like in any normal work environment, TRUST me i get sweaty palms and hear palpitations and a mini panic / anxiety attack. Haha :/


----------



## tangotango (May 12, 2014)

Yeah that is a worry. And with ukip and that idot who leads the. Things are getting worse. I could never leave the uk because I have 3children from a previous Marriage. How do you stand if you had a baby???

Also what do u understand of this BBC News - Immigrants 'have to earn £35,000' to settle - from 2016


----------



## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

The fiancé visa is just the 1st step. It gives you 6 months to get married. After you get married and before the fiancé visa expires you apply for FLR (M) which is good for 2.5 years. After 2.5 years you apply for FLR (M) again. After 5 years on FLR (M) you apply for ILR. No previous successful visa guarantees that the next visa will be successful. You have to meet the requirements for each visa.


----------



## tangotango (May 12, 2014)

But if they allow the fiancée visa knowing about the drink drive conviction can they then reject future visas on this reason if all other criteria is met?


----------



## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

That looks ominous. But take comfort in knowing that the rules you get your first visa under, continue to apply to your case till the very end, regardless of what laws are changed thereafter. And that seems to be the proposed plan for Tier 4 works visas and not settlement visas by the route of family ties. 

and about babies, I am not even going to consider having a child till I have my ILR in my hand. My finace and I have discussed this. As unlikely as it might be, even the slightest possibility of a split family, is too much and doesn't bare thinking about. Do take the advice of the more experienced moderators on this site as they are amazing! People with things such as DUIs to declare on their applications have had success in the past and there is no reason your story cannot be another one of those success stories if everything is handled well. Good luck with your application. I wish you every luck as leaving your kids would certainly not be an option!


----------



## tangotango (May 12, 2014)

Well in my case in 5 years time won't a drink drive be spent and so no longer an issue?

There is never a good time to have kids. I would not want to wait 5 years. Really in this day out government would send my wife and baby away???

Hmmmm don't think I want to be British anymore


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

tangotango said:


> Also what do u understand of this BBC News - Immigrants 'have to earn £35,000' to settle - from 2016


It's old news from more than 2 years ago. A lot has happened since and there's no plan to increase the current financial requirement of £18,600 for a couple, more with children.


----------



## tangotango (May 12, 2014)

And interns of my situation when in 5 years time she applies for settlement would the drink driving issue still be looked at or is it then spent and so won't be an issue


----------



## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

That is great news . However, she will be applying for a FLR(m) 2 and a half years after the initial spouse visa is granted too. Whcih will give her a another 2 and a half years leave. Which is when she will finally apply for ILR (indefinite leave to remain). Good luck!


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Unspent criminal conviction (and serious motoring conviction comes under) disqualifies you from settlement (ILR). For DD with a fine, it becomes spent 5 years from the date of conviction. While you still have to disclose all spent and unspent convictions, after 5 years you won't be denied ILR solely because of your DD record.


----------



## tangotango (May 12, 2014)

She had a 6 month ban and about a $700 fine. She was twice over the legal limit. Is this still spent in 5 years?
I know I keep asking the same question. You can probably read my desperation - its driving me mad. If we meet all the other criteria - in your opinion will this conviction prevent a fiancée visa /marriage visa and if not would it later prevent settlement? 
Also remember I said that she did not disclose this on previous visa applications. This scares me as I am worried they will think she tried to deceive. As much as I love her she actually didn’t – she was just an idiot. I did the FLR-fb with her and I believed that because the ban was over it was spent. I


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Important thing is don't let them find out about the conviction before she declares it, with apology. If they do, denial is almost certain (not for initial visa but for settlement). Best to bite the bullet now than to wait (and hide the conviction) and get denied ILR later. They often ask 'friendly' countries like Commonwealth countries, US and Canada about applicant's criminal record.


----------



## tangotango (May 12, 2014)

Im sorry - what is the 'biting the bullet' likly to result in? Just a longer process time or what?


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, and the embarrassment of having to state your lack of honesty in not declaring earlier.


----------



## Probbo (Jan 9, 2014)

Hello. We declared the DUI and sent in a copy of the QLD police and court report and a short note to give some background. My husbands visa was approved. Wishing you all the best with your application.


----------



## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

Joppa, I'm surprised by your advice here.


----------



## tangotango (May 12, 2014)

AMYD - what was wrong with Joppa advise?


having spoken to a forth lawyer today I was once again advise not to disclose because it could result in a 10 year ban if they feel that she had decived previously on her other working visa and FLR0 and FLR-fb forms. So im once again lost as to what to do.

Apparently this laywer said its likly the visa will be rejected and then you appeal under human rights for right to stay with family and this can be overturn. The lawyer also said if she did get a 10 year ban then this can also be overtuned on the same grounds even if it was clear she had deceived. So i dont know.

Its frustrating because we still dont know if its on her record. She is from Australia and her police report was clean from here. The convision was in New Zealand. We have requested a copy of her record from NZ. If this is also clean does that mean it was never recorded or can UK Borders see things we can see ourselves?

Finally she has wrote a very appologetic letter stating that she has the conviction and how sorry she was for the offence etc. Should we also appologise for not discolosing on previous forms or not mention this? I assume they look at past visa applications and would they compare notes to see if on the latest a convition wa smentions but not on the others?


----------



## Whatshouldwedo (Sep 29, 2013)

Joppa's advice was sound. Personally, I would be honest and upfront about this and very apologetic. If you are willing to risk it not being discovered then that is up to you. I, as a worrier, would be haunted!!


----------



## tangotango (May 12, 2014)

Yeah we will declare. So should in our letter mention the previous failures to declare or just declare and apologie for the conviction and not mention previous


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You should own up about non-disclosure, which they will find out anyway if they decide to look up previous applications.


----------



## tangotango (May 12, 2014)

In your opinion do you think the visa would be rejected given the conviction and the error in non discloser?


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Won't be rejected because of conviction alone, but non-disclosure may be seen as dishonesty or deliberate concealment and will impact negatively. That's why you should express remorse, your oversight in previous non-disclosure and the desire to put thus incidence firmly behind. Then see how you get on, though there's no guarantee of success.


----------



## tangotango (May 12, 2014)

if they did reject it what is the changes if winning an appeal? is it better to get married abroad and then try or marry after the rejection and try again? i dont know what o do. I cant be without her but i have 3 children so i cant leave the uk.


----------



## tangotango (May 12, 2014)

Got myself in such a state over this I was prescribed anti depressants today. What a mess! And it's at least 6 months before I can submit application and likely get a response


----------



## Kimi2490 (Nov 8, 2012)

Hang in there ! There is nothing worse than getting in a state over things that are yet to occur. I have a different sort of problem. As I am the one doing all the research and finding out all the requisites and my SO is basically letting me dictate what is needed of him, he is rather surprised and even incredulous that we even need all this proof and paperwork and documentation. Keeps trying to fight me- surely we do not need e mail correspondence from 2010? Surely we do not need skype logs that far back? Surely this? and Surely that? 

I just yelled at him this morning- either do your own research and find out how RIGHT I am or if you cannot be bothered to, just let me do my job of evidence collection  Shut him up that! 

Incidentally, why do you have to wait at least 6 months to make an application?


----------



## tangotango (May 12, 2014)

No 6 months for response. It's a good month away before I can submit my application as I sent my passport off to be renewed only oh find on the finance form as I'm the sponsor I need to put my passport details.

My fiancée has also requested a criminal record check from new zealand do to see what's on there. Her Australian record is clean and her uk just a speeding offence. 

Which thinking about she didn't disclose that either arrrrrr.


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

No need to disclose UK speeding if it was dealt by fixed penalty, i.e. the case didn't go to court.


----------



## tangotango (May 12, 2014)

It didn't go to court and she did a course so I don't think she even got points. She did 34 in a 30 zone.

In fact I'm banning her from driving I decided


----------



## tangotango (May 12, 2014)

So can someone suggest what to say? I have explained the night of conviction but I don't know what to say about the 3 non disclosers.


----------



## bells (May 19, 2014)

Does the prohibition of any criminal/conviction issues only have to do with the applicant .. or also the sponsor?


----------



## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Just the applicant.
About non-disclosure, I suggest you say something like you believed innocently you didn't have to as it was a foreign conviction, which you now realise was a wrong assumption and you regret it.


----------

