# This World is Not Perfect!



## hyper_janice

There is crime everywhere in the world. Normally one attempts to avert harm to themselves. I am not one to run and hide, but in Egypt lately it seems to be the only way I can feel safe. 

Since moving to Egypt I have had my butt grabbed by a young man (I am over 50), had many other young men attempt to speak English to me in an amorous fashion including cops (while my wedding band was on), had a man repeatedly expose his penis in front of my house, and had a knife to my throat when I opened my door to a beggar to give him food (I don't open my door for anyone now needless to say). I thought we lived in a very quiet community when I first arrived, now I don't think there is a safe place in Egypt. I cannot walk down the street without people's eyeballs popping out of their heads. 

I have repeatedly thought of how to react to these forms of harassment and have concluded in my "lateness of life" that it is just not worth the bother to attempt to "reform the world". I have thought of carrying a cane but concluded I'm too young for that since I still have a spring in my step. I would probably feel guilty if I hurt anyone.

Since I'm crazy about my Egyptian husband leaving is out of the question right now. I have made attempts to connect with his family repeatedly being disappointed by the promises to visit, preparations I've made, only to find out they have plans that appeal to them more. Yes, I have made my visits to them. There seems to be no reciprocal conscience here!

I know that life needs balance. I have seen great acts of kindness here, but my heart is sorrowful for this country right now. I have to remind myself of the irremovable healthy sights I have seen:

--an elderly man limping across the road holding his cane out to stop traffic so his wife can cross the street safely

--the beauty of a banana blossom which by the way, I'd never see in the USA

--children yelling welcome as I walk down the street

--neighbors waving with sweet smiles on their faces

--my sister-in-law's incredible hospitality and her sweet children with pure hearts

--the farmland of my husband's relatives with the healing greenness of the crops

--the grin on my husband's face when he brings home chocolate for me

--the flowering trees and bushes (God's artwork here is incredible!)

--the way the dates hang from the trees (kinda makes you laugh cuz they look like balls)

--the way the kids can entertain themselves with not even an article that resembles a toy

--Aya's answer to the question 'what do you want me to bring you from the USA', 'I only want you to come back' and the sweetness in her eyes that proves she is speaking the truth

--neighbors chasing nasty people who try to talk to me in evil ways when I'm on my balcony 


I attempt not to complain (which is probably not obvious right now). But how can I be kind, how can I live when I can't even leave my house safely without my husband's presence? :noidea:


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## Whitedesert

God bless Janice. You bought into a very different culture than your own, for the reason you stated. I hope I am not unfair by saying, "that is the bed you made". Find the good in it, it is after all your present and your future, and try to live with the "not so pleasant". The sexual harrasment is not going to go away, not while the fundamental principles of forcing young kids to grow up seperately, for debatable religious reasons persist, and they are not exposed to each other so that especially boys can "learn" the social skills of "dealing" with the female specie. You are going to have to find your peace in all of this...


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## hyper_janice

Whitedesert said:


> God bless Janice. You bought into a very different culture than your own, for the reason you stated. I hope I am not unfair by saying, "that is the bed you made". Find the good in it, it is after all your present and your future, and try to live with the "not so pleasant". The sexual harrasment is not going to go away, not while the fundamental principles of forcing young kids to grow up seperately, for debatable religious reasons persist, and they are not exposed to each other so that especially boys can "learn" the social skills of "dealing" with the female specie. You are going to have to find your peace in all of this...


My dear,

The culture is not so different in many ways. I worked as a power plant operator. Do you have any idea how much sexual harassment there is in that? The difference mainly being you are harassed emotionally and verbally, compared to physically. Another difference is that in the USA it is denied and has sundry types of ass covering by the perpetrators. 

The main point I was trying to make is yes, things are not really great here, but we all need to see the sweetness that exists also. 

It seems my main point was not made clear, story of my life!

"That is the bed you made"???????? 

"find the peace in all of this" ??????????

Thank you so much for the words of comfort and exhortation and solutions!


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## ArabianNights

Janice, not so long ago, I would have not agreed with you. This was until I experienced what you experience myself. 

I wear the Hijab, I look like an Egyptian and I am Muslim - yet I still get hassled. I have never had my butt poked on (if that ever happens, i'd happily chop his hands off) but I have had other forms of sexual harassment and my sisters have had it worse. You are lucky, somewhat that you are not alone, you have a husband. Myself and some other foreign woman are here alone and it really does make a difference. I live a lie that I have my husband here whenever a stranger asks - I have to for my own safety.

I sympathize with you and unfortunately there are stereotypes associated with being an American, white woman. Certain people on this forum are very defensive of Egyptians and the way they act and I was too, until it happened to me - to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if someone came along and told you indirectly somehow that this is all your fault and that this is Egypt and that you have to tolerate it and that you are guest in this country and all the other stuff that comes with it.

You do not have to tolerate it.


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## Qsw

Sorry to hear about your bad experiences here. I hope one day, as do the vast majority of decent Egyptians, that sexual harassment here will die down and be a thing of the past. I hope that one day people here will feel safe, as safe as is possible.

Unfortunately the problem will not go away for a long time, as there are lots of societal problems that are causing it. And the stereotypes put together by the ignorant, the ones that go unchallenged, end up becoming widespread, thus encouraging this behavior. My cousins all complain about this, they are all Egyptian, but I know it happens more frequently with foreigners.

There aren't any real solutions other than being extremely careful about where you go, even though it's not possible to avoid it completely. There's that "Harass Map" site, I'm not sure if it's useful. 

I hope you don't let this form a bad image of Egyptians as others have done. This is not something that Egyptians do, this is something that harassers who happen to be Egyptian do. Our society has more of these people for various reasons, which I am seeing in person now. Please realize that the vast majority of the decent people here find this behavior disgusting. It's not an "Egyptian" thing as some are trying to imply. It's just a lot worse here than it is in other places. 

There's not much to do to fight it right now, maybe soon more support will be given to organizations that are trying to fight this problem. The general security situation I think will be fixed once within a year or two I hope. It may take a long time, but eventually these problems will be solved. 

I really hope you never have to experience those types of situations again, good luck!


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## Lanason

My 15 year old daughter was groped by a 10 year old group of lads, in Maadi. Not a big issue, but she was well angry with them. 

i guess we are lucky - we live in a nice area with good security. My wife has had one car follow her, with the guys trying to "chat her up". She was having none of it.

I am a visitor in Egypt, I am here with my British Family, my kids go to an international school, we socialise with mostly Expat families. We live in a Villa, so no problems with shared entrances, lifts, noise above/below. So my work and social life are very separate.

Our biggest pain is a dog that barks across the road.

I work in an Egyptian owned and run business. I am the only non-egyptian in the company.
I am proud to be part of the team, most of whom are totally dedicated and work hard. We have a great team and although we have "those days" sometimes, there is always great humour. Together we are building our small part of Egypt. 

I can retreat into my Family and Social "bubble" and so am not exposed to the traumas and problems that many suffer here. I'm not sure how I would deal with the "constant aggravation" that some of you are subjected to. My heart goes out to you.


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## MaidenScotland

Lanason said:


> My 15 year old daughter was groped by a 10 year old group of lads, in Maadi. Not a big issue, but she was well angry with them.
> 
> i guess we are lucky - we live in a nice area with good security. My wife has had one car follow her, with the guys trying to "chat her up". She was having none of it.
> 
> I am a visitor in Egypt, I am here with my British Family, my kids go to an international school, we socialise with mostly Expat families. We live in a Villa, so no problems with shared entrances, lifts, noise above/below. So my work and social life are very separate.
> 
> Our biggest pain is a dog that barks across the road.
> 
> I work in an Egyptian owned and run business. I am the only non-egyptian in the company.
> I am proud to be part of the team, most of whom are totally dedicated and work hard. We have a great team and although we have "those days" sometimes, there is always great humour. Together we are building our small part of Egypt.
> 
> I can retreat into my Family and Social "bubble" and so am not exposed to the traumas and problems that many suffer here. I'm not sure how I would deal with the "constant aggravation" that some of you are subjected to. My heart goes out to you.




Sorry Adrian how you can say your daughter being groped by a group of 10 years olds is not a big issues I do not know.. these are tomorrows men,


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## MaidenScotland

Qsw said:


> Sorry to hear about your bad experiences here. I hope one day, as do the vast majority of decent Egyptians, that sexual harassment here will die down and be a thing of the past. I hope that one day people here will feel safe, as safe as is possible.
> 
> Unfortunately the problem will not go away for a long time, as there are lots of societal problems that are causing it. And the stereotypes put together by the ignorant, the ones that go unchallenged, end up becoming widespread, thus encouraging this behavior. My cousins all complain about this, they are all Egyptian, but I know it happens more frequently with foreigners.
> 
> There aren't any real solutions other than being extremely careful about where you go, even though it's not possible to avoid it completely. There's that "Harass Map" site, I'm not sure if it's useful.
> 
> I hope you don't let this form a bad image of Egyptians as others have done. This is not something that Egyptians do, this is something that harassers who happen to be Egyptian do. Our society has more of these people for various reasons, which I am seeing in person now. Please realize that the vast majority of the decent people here find this behavior disgusting. It's not an "Egyptian" thing as some are trying to imply. It's just a lot worse here than it is in other places.
> 
> There's not much to do to fight it right now, maybe soon more support will be given to organizations that are trying to fight this problem. The general security situation I think will be fixed once within a year or two I hope. It may take a long time, but eventually these problems will be solved.
> 
> I really hope you never have to experience those types of situations again, good luck!




It is very nice of you to give us your support over the sexual harassment that we encounter and yes it does happen all over the world but believe me as a foreign blond women living here I have never known it to be this bad anywhere else and I have traveled far and wide

I do not have one single friend who has not been harassed and only last week a friend was sexually attacked yards from her home on a very busy street... I used to live in the police tower and I was molested in the lift.. 

No it may not just be an Egyptian thing but it certainly is a middle east problem as men in this region do not seem to have any respect for women.

The biggest bug bear for me is the fact they get up close and personal at every opportunity


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## Lanason

MaidenScotland said:


> Sorry Adrian how you can say your daughter being groped by a group of 10 years olds is not a big issues I do not know.. these are tomorrows men,


I meant not a big issue for her (she was not traumatised) - she was sad for them . . . it a huge issue for these kids as they grow up and a sad reflection on some elements of the culture.

I gave one of my Egyptian Managers a lift home tonight and we were talking in the car - he came up with a very smart phase "there is no paradise on earth" - meaning every where has its issues.


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## aykalam

Lanason said:


> My 15 year old daughter was groped by a 10 year old group of lads, in Maadi. Not a big issue, but she was well angry with them.
> 
> i guess we are lucky - we live in a nice area with good security. My wife has had one car follow her, with the guys trying to "chat her up". She was having none of it.
> 
> I am a visitor in Egypt, I am here with my British Family, my kids go to an international school, we socialise with mostly Expat families. We live in a Villa, so no problems with shared entrances, lifts, noise above/below. So my work and social life are very separate.
> 
> Our biggest pain is a dog that barks across the road.
> 
> I work in an Egyptian owned and run business. I am the only non-egyptian in the company.
> I am proud to be part of the team, most of whom are totally dedicated and work hard. We have a great team and although we have "those days" sometimes, there is always great humour. Together we are building our small part of Egypt.
> 
> I can retreat into my Family and Social "bubble" and so am not exposed to the traumas and problems that many suffer here. I'm not sure how I would deal with the "constant aggravation" that some of you are subjected to. My heart goes out to you.


Adrian,

Please beware, this sort of thing DOES happen in Rehab too, it is NOT a safe place for a young girl. Last year a teenager was raped inside the club and another one seriously assaulted next to the food court, in the street. 

It may not have been a traumatising experience for your daughter but don't fall into a false sense of security!


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## Lanason

aykalam said:


> Adrian,
> 
> Please beware, this sort of thing DOES happen in Rehab too, it is NOT a safe place for a young girl. Last year a teenager was raped inside the club and another one seriously assaulted next to the food court, in the street.
> 
> It may not have been a traumatising experience for your daughter but don't fall into a false sense of security!


My kids dont go out alone - always together or with friends. We are careful and have drivers or parents to keep a watchful.


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## aykalam

Lanason said:


> My kids dont go out alone - always together or with friends. We are careful and have drivers or parents to keep a watchful.


and still, she got harassed?


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## Lanason

aykalam said:


> and still, she got harassed?


yes, in Maadi on the way to the restaurant with a group of them


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## canuck2010

Nowhere is safe now, can't walk anywhere after dark, must take private cars, no taxis (especially if you're a woman). There are a lot of desperate people out there roaming the streets (ie. organized criminal gangs), and the police do nothing.


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## MaidenScotland

canuck2010 said:


> Nowhere is safe now, can't walk anywhere after dark, must take private cars, no taxis (especially if you're a woman). There are a lot of desperate people out there roaming the streets (ie. organized criminal gangs), and the police do nothing.




I am going out Tuesday evening in a crowd and invited a friend along, she told me,, My husband wont allow me out at night now..


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## ArabianNights

Qsw said:


> Sorry to hear about your bad experiences here. I hope one day, as do the vast majority of decent Egyptians, that sexual harassment here will die down and be a thing of the past. I hope that one day people here will feel safe, as safe as is possible.
> 
> Unfortunately the problem will not go away for a long time, as there are lots of societal problems that are causing it. And the stereotypes put together by the ignorant, the ones that go unchallenged, end up becoming widespread, thus encouraging this behavior. My cousins all complain about this, they are all Egyptian, but I know it happens more frequently with foreigners.
> 
> There aren't any real solutions other than being extremely careful about where you go, even though it's not possible to avoid it completely. There's that "Harass Map" site, I'm not sure if it's useful.
> 
> I hope you don't let this form a bad image of Egyptians as others have done. This is not something that Egyptians do, this is something that harassers who happen to be Egyptian do. Our society has more of these people for various reasons, which I am seeing in person now. Please realize that the vast majority of the decent people here find this behavior disgusting. It's not an "Egyptian" thing as some are trying to imply. It's just a lot worse here than it is in other places.
> 
> There's not much to do to fight it right now, maybe soon more support will be given to organizations that are trying to fight this problem. The general security situation I think will be fixed once within a year or two I hope. It may take a long time, but eventually these problems will be solved.
> 
> I really hope you never have to experience those types of situations again, good luck!



Being an Egyptian, your sympathy is comforting and its nice to see. Of course, you have, by the sounds of it, spent a long time overseas and its usually the Egyptians that have spent time overseas, or those that are educated enough, fall into 'normal' category.

Until an incident that occurred recently. 

I dont know if you read this or not, I posted this incident here as part of a long post - but 2 of my sisters came to visit me recently, one of them being 17 years old. She wanted to experience riding a camel and to take some photos - and we decided to do this at the Pyramids. We went to see the Pyramids light and sound show one evening and whilst we were purchasing tickets, we were discussing amongst ourselves another trip back there the next morning, to do the camel rides during the day, as there are camels inside the Pyramids.

Whilst we were talking, a tour guide overheard us and he introduced himself to us. He was a tour guide for a travel company, and was there because his group of tourists (which only consisted of one south african couple in a nice air conditioned tourist van) were here to see the sound and light show, as part of their program. He ever so kindly said to us that he knows one man who can give us a camel ride right now.... for about 15minutes and he offered to take us to him - i.e drive us there. So, we went into his tourist van, with his customers and the driver took as to wherever the guide directed the driver. He told us that he will come and pick us up. His English was excellent, said that he has spent most of his life in Canada and now he works as a tourist guide in his native Egypt. He said that he felt 'bad' for us, because we are girls alone and its just 'human to help'.... lots of other sugar coated words, which we thought were genuine. He even told us not to trust anyone and gave us many advices. When we arrived, we noticed that we were in a remote village... near to the pyramids, but hard to find, and it was dark.

It was a village, which was in the middle of nowhere (how it felt) and this guy just drove off, left us there. We were coerced to go inside a shed and were given a sales pitch by some random men - lots and lots of men where around, ogling at us. We were the only girls there. We felt vulnerable, didnt know how to get out, it was dark and we trusted this well spoken man, who was educated, spent many years in the west and was a tourist guide and had customers with him. We were asked to pay, for a 15 minute camel ride 600LE each. We didnt want it - just one of my sisters wanted a photo op and that was it. It turned into a big scene - my sister started crying, I threw a wobbly - long story short.... we were driven back to the entrance, because they didnt want to ruin their 'reputation' and that they were 'good Egyptians'. It turned out that these people were all related to the man who owned the hotel we stayed at. Coincidentally.

We felt like we were being held for ransom. They take you to a random village in the middle of no where, with the only way out being purchasing a camel or donkey ride at extortionate costs. This is how they rip of tourists, this is how they milk their money. They emotionally force you, they suffocate you so that you have no other option, by placing themselves in places where they know tourists cannot run. I wasnt worried about myself - I know enough Arabic, to be able to find my way out of that village onto the main road, but I had my sisters with me - whose emotions and vulnerabilities they played with in order to get cash. 

Now, what do you have, which can make us believe that you are not the same as this tourist operator?

Since this incident and some others, I do not trust one single Egyptian.


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## MaidenScotland

As a foreigner and women it is hard not to be cynical in this country but I have to say I have met some lovely people but sadly getting hurt is always remembered so much more than having a good time.


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## ArabianNights

Oh yes, I am not denying that there are good people - but how do you sort the wheat from the chaff?


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## marimar

ArabianNights said:


> Now, what do you have, which can make us believe that you are not the same as this tourist operator?
> 
> Since this incident and some others, I do not trust one single Egyptian.




I think its a bit narrow minded to judge a whole nation of people by the actions of a minority. You can't say all Egyptians are bad just by what you have experienced, it would be like saying that because you are Muslim, you must be a terrorist.....its just not acceptable, it is insulting on so many levels.
I would hate to be judged by my nationality rather than who i am as a person.
Its nice to read posts coming from Egyptians living here too (Deadguy,Qsw and others), giving their perspectives and showing us that most problems are not foreigner targeting and that everyday Egyptians are living with these problems too.


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## ArabianNights

marimar said:


> I think its a bit narrow minded to judge a whole nation of people by the actions of a minority. You can't say all Egyptians are bad just by what you have experienced, it would be like saying that because you are Muslim, you must be a terrorist.....its just not acceptable, it is insulting on so many levels.


This is what I also think. And I still do think this - however, if you experienced the Egypt that I have, then I am sure that you would probably feel the same. Here is a small picture of what I have experienced:

- Before I even moved here, the International students coordinator at my University, the University of Alexandria, tried to rip me off by offering me a bedroom on campus accomodation for 6000 LE per month and this was sharing a bedroom with another person, not even my own room. 

In the city of London, I was paying the same amount for a one bedroom apartment.

- When I got here, I found out that in fact this was not campus accomodation - but the coordinators little business on the side

- Without going into the details, the Egyptian embassy has wasted a lot of my money, when my husband attempted to get an Egyptian visa, for him to join me here. Because of their in-competencies my husband was not able to join me here in Egypt and consequently, I have to be a woman on my own in Egypt and suffer the consequences of this. Fine, deal with it and move on. 

- When I moved here, there were no apartments to rent - and any that I did find wanted to charge me rip off rates because I am not Egyptian. Everywhere I went, I was ripped off. An Islamic school here offered to find me accomodation for a very high fee, which I had no choice but to pay as I did not have anywhere else to live. I was tut tutted by these same people, because I am a woman, without my husband beside me and I wanted an apartment for myself. Fine, deal with it and move on.

- When I found the place that I am in now, I was told by the Islamic school and the landlord that I have heating and air conditioning. When I moved in, turned out I didnt. Fine, deal with it and move on.

- I stopped taking cabs, unless I am going to a place that I have never been before, mainly because of the ripping off. The ripping off is everywhere, shops, souqs, even restaurants. Fine, deal with it and move on.

- You know what happened in Luxor, I wont mention it all again as I am sure you read my post about that

These are just a small picture of the things I have had to go through - not even that. 

Many people, including other Arabs have told me never to trust Egyptians and I also thought that it was not a nice thing to say.... If you look in my previous posts, you will see me defending them. There is only so much that one can take. 



> I would hate to be judged by my nationality rather than who i am as a person.


I am not judging people personally, I am talking about Egyptians as a whole. Trusting someone, only after they have proved themselves is normal. Until now, all my life I made the mistake of trusting everyone and anyone. Until I came to Egypt. Boy, was this a wake up call!



> Its nice to read posts coming from Egyptians living here too (Deadguy,Qsw and others), giving their perspectives and showing us that most problems are not foreigner targeting and that everyday Egyptians are living with these problems too.


I know for a fact that Egyptian women also have a hard time. But it is nothing like what foreign women get, and I am 100% certain that Maiden gets more hassle then I do, just because she is white and blonde. If I am a Muslim and look Egyptian and speak Arabic and I feel like this - imagine how Maiden feels!

Its very easy to speak, when one is leading a cushy life.... I could easy live in Egypt and have a nice life here, if I had a driver or my own car, my husband and family with me - It would be nice to be able to live in a place where I want to live and not in a place where I have no other choice. It would be nice if I had a dishwasher and a maid and a whatever, that most expats have, which I dont. Things like this make a huge difference. My experiences are experience of Egypt outside the western expat bubble. I am a Muslim girl who lives on her own and in her 20's and I have no family or no husband here with me. I go everywhere on my own and I have to constantly lie in order to survive. Try living one day in my shoes and you'll see how hard it is. I am an Egyptian rapists wildest dream and I am vulnerable to that.


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## ArabianNights

I forgot to add that my bowab regularly makes the elevator in my building stop working - so that he can charge us again and again to 'fix' it. He claims to collect 50 LE from each apartment, but 100 LE from me, because I am 'Agnabiyah' (foreigner) - he says it to my face. When I ask other apartments about this, they deny all knowledge about any fees to fix the elevator. When I raise this with the bowab, he says they are lying. 

I have been told that to my face many times from different people. "Ill charge you so and so, because you are a foreigner". I once asked my teacher how much I should pay for a cab ride to one place, and she said that usually it should be about 20 LE, but because you are foreigner, you should pay 50 LE. When Egyptians openly discriminate, its not an issue, but if I ever talk about an Egyptian who wants to rip me off or whatever - then I am being narrow minded. Egyptians openly discriminate, they do not even hide it.


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## CatMandoo

marimar said:


> I think its a bit narrow minded to judge a whole nation of people by the actions of a minority. You can't say all Egyptians are bad just by what you have experienced, it would be like saying that because you are Muslim, you must be a terrorist.....its just not acceptable, it is insulting on so many levels.
> I would hate to be judged by my nationality rather than who i am as a person.
> Its nice to read posts coming from Egyptians living here too (Deadguy,Qsw and others), giving their perspectives and showing us that most problems are not foreigner targeting and that everyday Egyptians are living with these problems too.


IMHO it's way beyond narrow minded. Just because someone IMHO makes poor life decisions, does not justify constant bashing of an entire nation. This constant stereotyping is extremely annoying. I don't appreciate personally, and I am sure my Egyptian Relatives wouldn't either. And to keep repeating the same boring story over and over adds NOTHING to claims, real or not. Face it, we are on a forum and most of know NOTHING about each other, yet take whatever anyone says here to be fact. HMMM


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## marimar

ArabianNights said:


> Its very easy to speak, when one is leading a cushy life.... I could easy live in Egypt and have a nice life here, if I had a driver or my own car, my husband and family with me - It would be nice to be able to live in a place where I want to live and not in a place where I have no other choice. It would be nice if I had a dishwasher and a maid and a whatever, that most expats have, which I dont. Things like this make a huge difference. My experiences are experience of Egypt outside the western expat bubble.



If this is insinuating I have a cushy life, let me fill you in....I am not here with an expat package, I have no maid, driver, houseboy, cleaner, servants of any sort, dishwasher or any of the things you think make life easier here, which going by posts of Maiden, don't make life any less hassle free.

As someone who is constantly pleading poverty, I find it amazing as you seem to be able to jet off to Dubai for a break, taking family to Luxor, thinking of travelling to Jordan, yet have to take the microbus because you can't afford a taxi!!!
I am not doubting any of your experiences here but since you joined the forum its been non stop complaining.






> I am a Muslim girl who lives on her own and in her 20's and I have no family or no husband here with me. I go everywhere on my own and I have to constantly lie in order to survive. Try living one day in my shoes and you'll see how hard it is. I am an Egyptian rapists wildest dream and I am vulnerable to that.



If I was in your situation and felt so threatened every day and was as miserable as you sound I would be on the first flight out, regardless of studies, is your quailty of life really worth all this much misery?

On a personal note, I feel sorry that you have had so many unfortunate events here but you're not the only one and the constant posts of your "awful life" are becoming tedious. I will take a leaf from another members book who has decided not to read another attention seekers posts anymore. 
I wish you luck in the future and a happier time when you return to your "wonderful" country.


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## CatMandoo

marimar said:


> If this is insinuating I have a cushy life, let me fill you in....I am not here with an expat package, I have no maid, driver, houseboy, cleaner, servants of any sort, dishwasher or any of the things you think make life easier here, which going by posts of Maiden, don't make life any less hassle free.
> 
> As someone who is constantly pleading poverty, I find it amazing as you seem to be able to jet off to Dubai for a break, taking family to Luxor, thinking of travelling to Jordan, yet have to take the microbus because you can't afford a taxi!!!
> I am not doubting any of your experiences here but since you joined the forum its been non stop complaining.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I was in your situation and felt so threatened every day and was as miserable as you sound I would be on the first flight out, regardless of studies, is your quailty of life really worth all this much misery?
> 
> On a personal note, I feel sorry that you have had so many unfortunate events here but you're not the only one and the constant posts of your "awful life" are becoming tedious. I will take a leaf from another members book who has decided not to read another attention seekers posts anymore.
> I wish you luck in the future and a happier time when you return to your "wonderful" country.


Actually this forum has a wonderful feature which I just found. The Ignore User feature. It actually REMOVES all post from anyone you put on it. :clap2::clap2:


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## ArabianNights

marimar said:


> If this is insinuating I have a cushy life, let me fill you in....I am not here with an expat package, I have no maid, driver, houseboy, cleaner, servants of any sort, dishwasher or any of the things you think make life easier here, which going by posts of Maiden, don't make life any less hassle free.


That wasn't insinuating anything about you - I was merely pointing out - as another person here did point out, that most people here are on expat packages. I didnt commit a criminal offense in saying that. 



> As someone who is constantly pleading poverty, I find it amazing as you seem to be able to jet off to Dubai for a break, taking family to Luxor, thinking of travelling to Jordan, yet have to take the microbus because you can't afford a taxi!!!


I don't take the taxi, because people here constantly say its not safe to take a taxi and if I do, then I have to make fake phone calls or take pictures of the number plate. Yes, the cost also does mount up if being ripped off constantly again and again and I would rather spend the money on nicer things then being ripped off, just because a taxi driver thinks its OK to rip me off as I am foreign. It is not about money, but it is about morals. If I didn't have to worry about being ripped off, needing to keep lying on a fake telephone call or take photos of cars, as people here have suggested, then maybe I would take taxis! Some people here even say one shouldn't take a microbus! What do you expect me to do? A microbus is said to be unsafe, a taxi is meant to be unsafe - I dont have a driver with a car to drive me places, any ideas on how exactly I should get around?



> I am not doubting any of your experiences here but since you joined the forum its been non stop complaining.


As I said before - if you were living the life I am here, then you would be too. You may not have a maid or servants or any of the things that I described earlier - but you are certainly not alone here by the sounds of it. You might not think so, but having people around you makes a huge difference, especially in countries like Egypt. As they say, the more people you have around you, the easier the battle can be won. 




> If I was in your situation and felt so threatened every day and was as miserable as you sound I would be on the first flight out, regardless of studies, is your quailty of life really worth all this much misery?


Trust me, I have thought about this doing this on many occasions. Even last night. In fact, I think about doing this every day - not so much going back home to England, but to be with my husband and not be alone in a country full of the kind of men that I have seen. Unfortunately, the consequences of this are too bad, for me to do that, and also considering how much I have had to give up personally, without getting into details, for my studies. If I leave now then I will not be able to complete my degree and I would have to re-take a whole year again - giving me another 2 years left on top of an already 4 year degree. I have also spent lots of money in course fees... and there are some other consequences. Considering I only have 4 months here, I am just trying to live it out and I am counting down each day. 



> On a personal note, I feel sorry that you have had so many unfortunate events here but you're not the only one and the constant posts of your "awful life" are becoming tedious. I will take a leaf from another members book who has decided not to read another attention seekers posts anymore.
> I wish you luck in the future and a happier time when you return to your "wonderful" country.


Thank you. No one is forcing you to read anything and you are at your own free will.


----------



## ArabianNights

CatMandoo said:


> Actually this forum has a wonderful feature which I just found. The Ignore User feature. It actually REMOVES all post from anyone you put on it. :clap2::clap2:


Good job - I can do that with you. Seriously though - I don't know what you problem is you seem to have an attitude that stinks to be quite frank.


----------



## Qsw

*RE: ArabianNights*

Well, I didn't want to derail this thread. I don't think I have a choice. 

I am by my nature a trusting person. I still am. The only thing that changed since I've arrived, is that I don't blindly trust strangers anymore. You might think that is a bad thing. I think its made me a smarter person, since I now feel that I am not as vulnerable a person as I used to be. I had to be burned a couple of times, but I learned. 

Now, wherever I go, I'll be cautious and not simply trust anybody I come across. Trust has to be something that is earned, not given, simple as that. Especially with total strangers. It's fine to trust close friends or family, but no matter where you go, you are asking for trouble if you trust a stranger blindly. You are just putting your fate into their hands at that point.

I trusted lawyers (non-Egyptian lawyers, in America) when they said they would give me proper advice; instead they were just looking to suck up money and keep stringing me along. I got burned. That's the risk you take with trusting strangers, you could get burned. My boss in America trusted his business clients. They left him out to dry with a $20,000 backlog in pay (this was a small business, that was maybe 5-10% of his yearly revenue). They racked up the bill and left, never saying a word about not being able to pay. He's learned a very expensive lesson. Trusting any stranger or acquaintance from any nationality blindly is a gamble. 

It's easy to avoid the people that would scam or steal from you openly in Western countries/countries with effective police. They are often hidden away, they know the law can track them down if they operate in the open. 

Unfortunately, there is a lack of a proper government/legal system here, and that allows scammers and thieves to operate openly as long as they have available targets. So instead of looking to scam through more elaborate means, they can just rely on smooth talking and their professional scamming experience to pick targets in the open. 

I've had taxis take me on an tour of Cairo on my way to my destination, charging me double what I should have paid because they figured out I was not familiar with it. Keep in mind I am completely Egyptian, I don't look foreign and I can speak Egyptian normally. I remember getting into a taxi from Ramses station and seeing the meter turned off after we started moving, and no idea how much I am supposed to pay. It's frustrating to constantly get ripped off. But I learned, and now I know how to handle taxis so I don't have to deal with it again. I negotiate the price, they don't like it, onto the next one. And after the first couple of bad experiences, I also found taxi drivers who behaved decently, just as the majority probably do. All the others had working meters and drove exactly as they should have.

You are probably going through culture shock, so being annoyed and frustrated is understandable. I went through it, even though I am Egyptian, because this is the first time I've actually lived here for an extended period. I may stay here, I may not; but one thing I know, I won't ever mistrust an Egyptian simply because they are Egyptian. No nation deserves that kind of judgment because of the actions of their bad apples (to put it mildly). There is a label for people that do that kind of thing, but I won't use it since I don't think you are really that kind of person. As MaidenScotland said, the good is not as easy to remember as the bad.

I'm really sad to hear about how your Pyramids guide went beyond bad. That would have been a terrifying experience. I could easily see myself falling for that same trap, when I first arrived, I would have trusted that person too. It's a mistake that can easily be made. We all make mistakes, and making a mistake in a foreign country is a very scary thing. But then using that, or some other bad experience, as a reason not to trust an entire nation is taking it to the extreme. I'm extremely grateful you and your sisters made it back without any harm.

The lady that opened this thread, and all others who have been attacked, have gone through verbal, physical, and other types of harassment, and threats, I am really sorry for them and am glad they are all safe now. Those types of problems are much more frequent here than in other places sadly. I am extremely saddened by the fact that Egyptians still have not gotten these types of problems under control. There's no justification for those crimes.

I'm not going to criticize the decisions you made. Your university, contacts, or government should have prepared you better for this experience. 

Simply accepting the mistakes I made, avoiding repeating them, and moving on from bad experiences, is the best way to make sure I can enjoy my time here. And now I do. I keep an open mind at all times, not blindly trusting strangers but not closing myself off either. I can now see myself staying here and enjoying it, even though that wasn't what I thought when I went through the culture shock, after 12 years of living in America (and before that in the gulf). 

In Egypt, you have to plan and work with verified people or companies. Lots of tourists like to go on bedouin trips in remote parts of the desert, and this is probably something common in some other ME countries. Taken alone, that seems like a death wish. But with proper planning and with verified guides, it can be a great experience, as I'm sure they wouldn't exist otherwise. 

Aren't there other international students that can keep you company? People in your classes? I'm sure there is someplace that you can go for company that is safe, since you are religious maybe that would be a mosque or some other religious place. Even if you go there just to meet people. 

To get around, there is a simple solution, if you find a taxi you like, you can just ask them for their phone number, and call them when you need a ride. Most taxis here would probably be happy with an arrangement like that (you'll have to pay them a little extra, but its well worth it). If you don't want to risk having to go through the elimination process, you could check with someone decent that you know (hopefully you've managed to find someone). Since you have a few months left, maybe just sticking with whatever you do now will work.

I freely admit, Egypt has a lot of problems, and there are many Egyptians that are also scammers, thieves and much worse. But that doesn't mean that Egyptians as a whole are like that. The vast majority are hardworking honest people, as is the case around the world. There are a lot of good people here.


----------



## SHendra

It is hard for a foreign woman in Egypt.. even hard for the Egyptian women and unlike us they get no choices in leaving! My ex sis in law many times got 'bullied/offended' simply for just being a woman! But even she would say not all are the same! And their not.

Us females on this forum all look different no doubt but at one time or another have dealt with being harrassed etc. But most of us would say not all are like this.. and their not. We as foreigners will be sniffed out more so by them and the scammers by the simple fact were foreign. So to us it would look like that most are like this but we know it isnt.

Arabian you must not think anyone is against you, I doubt anyone is. You have had a difficult time trying to settle in there and the let say the adventures you've had have not been pleasent. By the sound of it your uni somehow has misled you including your teachers.. if that was me I would not even want to study with them!! It would be a simple case of cutting the losses and going. I'm also going to say your living in one of the worse areas of Alex's for a foreigner.. you got some of Alex's most poorest living in and around that area going northwards. Maybe it why you been targetted alot there too. 

I feel kinda silly to be honest. When I was first new in Alex's my ex husband was giving me all these warnings of what areas are okay, how to deal with the taxis and what to do in certain situations and so on. I use to think he was being to over protective and it use to drive me nuts! But as time went on and I started to learn I actually found he was being correct he was actually just looking out for my interests. I soon learnt walking around Miami/Mamorna/Manshaya by myself = a hard time and was just not worth the hassle. I only ventured to those places if someone was with me. Just how it goes. 

As for the taxis it same as I always said before. Have the cash ready for your A to B in the correct amount. Get to B, get out of the car.. hand the man the money and walk away. No need to talk to him at all.. only for your destination and to hena when you wish to stop! Thats it. Said before also about the shopping stick to the supermarkets and your be fine in that to. 

Once you develope the mindset to deal in these certain ways and to just basically 'take no crap' from anyone your find the day actually not that hard to deal with. 

In addition: I met some wonderful people out there who I still actually keep in touch with! I do not regret my experiences in being out there one bit even tho I did get bothered and conned at times! Its' made me a stronger person and very grateful to have the choices in life that I do have. Because at the end of the day the country we are born into is pure luck!


----------



## MaidenScotland

Qsw said:


> Well, I didn't want to derail this thread. I don't think I have a choice.
> 
> I am by my nature a trusting person. I still am. The only thing that changed since I've arrived, is that I don't blindly trust strangers anymore. You might think that is a bad thing. I think its made me a smarter person, since I now feel that I am not as vulnerable a person as I used to be. I had to be burned a couple of times, but I learned.
> 
> Now, wherever I go, I'll be cautious and not simply trust anybody I come across. Trust has to be something that is earned, not given, simple as that. Especially with total strangers. It's fine to trust close friends or family, but no matter where you go, you are asking for trouble if you trust a stranger blindly. You are just putting your fate into their hands at that point.
> 
> I trusted lawyers (non-Egyptian lawyers, in America) when they said they would give me proper advice; instead they were just looking to suck up money and keep stringing me along. I got burned. That's the risk you take with trusting strangers, you could get burned. My boss in America trusted his business clients. They left him out to dry with a $20,000 backlog in pay (this was a small business, that was maybe 5-10% of his yearly revenue). They racked up the bill and left, never saying a word about not being able to pay. He's learned a very expensive lesson. Trusting any stranger or acquaintance from any nationality blindly is a gamble.
> 
> It's easy to avoid the people that would scam or steal from you openly in Western countries/countries with effective police. They are often hidden away, they know the law can track them down if they operate in the open.
> 
> Unfortunately, there is a lack of a proper government/legal system here, and that allows scammers and thieves to operate openly as long as they have available targets. So instead of looking to scam through more elaborate means, they can just rely on smooth talking and their professional scamming experience to pick targets in the open.
> 
> I've had taxis take me on an tour of Cairo on my way to my destination, charging me double what I should have paid because they figured out I was not familiar with it. Keep in mind I am completely Egyptian, I don't look foreign and I can speak Egyptian normally. I remember getting into a taxi from Ramses station and seeing the meter turned off after we started moving, and no idea how much I am supposed to pay. It's frustrating to constantly get ripped off. But I learned, and now I know how to handle taxis so I don't have to deal with it again. I negotiate the price, they don't like it, onto the next one. And after the first couple of bad experiences, I also found taxi drivers who behaved decently, just as the majority probably do. All the others had working meters and drove exactly as they should have.
> 
> You are probably going through culture shock, so being annoyed and frustrated is understandable. I went through it, even though I am Egyptian, because this is the first time I've actually lived here for an extended period. I may stay here, I may not; but one thing I know, I won't ever mistrust an Egyptian simply because they are Egyptian. No nation deserves that kind of judgment because of the actions of their bad apples (to put it mildly). There is a label for people that do that kind of thing, but I won't use it since I don't think you are really that kind of person. As MaidenScotland said, the good is not as easy to remember as the bad.
> 
> I'm really sad to hear about how your Pyramids guide went beyond bad. That would have been a terrifying experience. I could easily see myself falling for that same trap, when I first arrived, I would have trusted that person too. It's a mistake that can easily be made. We all make mistakes, and making a mistake in a foreign country is a very scary thing. But then using that, or some other bad experience, as a reason not to trust an entire nation is taking it to the extreme. I'm extremely grateful you and your sisters made it back without any harm.
> 
> The lady that opened this thread, and all others who have been attacked, have gone through verbal, physical, and other types of harassment, and threats, I am really sorry for them and am glad they are all safe now. Those types of problems are much more frequent here than in other places sadly. I am extremely saddened by the fact that Egyptians still have not gotten these types of problems under control. There's no justification for those crimes.
> 
> I'm not going to criticize the decisions you made. Your university, contacts, or government should have prepared you better for this experience.
> 
> Simply accepting the mistakes I made, avoiding repeating them, and moving on from bad experiences, is the best way to make sure I can enjoy my time here. And now I do. I keep an open mind at all times, not blindly trusting strangers but not closing myself off either. I can now see myself staying here and enjoying it, even though that wasn't what I thought when I went through the culture shock, after 12 years of living in America (and before that in the gulf).
> 
> In Egypt, you have to plan and work with verified people or companies. Lots of tourists like to go on bedouin trips in remote parts of the desert, and this is probably something common in some other ME countries. Taken alone, that seems like a death wish. But with proper planning and with verified guides, it can be a great experience, as I'm sure they wouldn't exist otherwise.
> 
> Aren't there other international students that can keep you company? People in your classes? I'm sure there is someplace that you can go for company that is safe, since you are religious maybe that would be a mosque or some other religious place. Even if you go there just to meet people.
> 
> To get around, there is a simple solution, if you find a taxi you like, you can just ask them for their phone number, and call them when you need a ride. Most taxis here would probably be happy with an arrangement like that (you'll have to pay them a little extra, but its well worth it). If you don't want to risk having to go through the elimination process, you could check with someone decent that you know (hopefully you've managed to find someone). Since you have a few months left, maybe just sticking with whatever you do now will work.
> 
> I freely admit, Egypt has a lot of problems, and there are many Egyptians that are also scammers, thieves and much worse. But that doesn't mean that Egyptians as a whole are like that. The vast majority are hardworking honest people, as is the case around the world. There are a lot of good people here.




I agree with most of what you have said but remember if all you meet are scammers, thieves and sexual predators then of course your view of a place will be coloured. The daily onslaught gets very weary.

It is easy to tell people how to do things.. I after all would have have stopped the taxi if he had turned my meter off and got out .. you didn't why not?

Don't do this, don't go there is not the problem.. the problem is with the people who do this and yes we must take precautions to try and prevent these thing but when are the Egyptian people going to stand up to these people who give them a bad name, who stop tourist coming and spending their dollars? This is not a new problem this has been going on for ever and I am sure each and every one of us had been had and will be again.. can you not see this is not a good view for anyone?

The victim is not to blame!!


----------



## crewmeal

ArabianNights - I'm sorry that you have had a bad time here, but as others have suggested perhaps it's time to draw a line under all this, move on and study elsewhere. I suggest Jordan. They have excellent Uni's and Colleges and your quality of life will be improved. Having lived in Jordan they will sympathise with your circumstances and help you. There shouldn't be any problems with your husband entering on a visitor's visa.

What is the point of enduring all this unhappiness in an unstable country. Your studies must be constantly interrupted and therefore learning cannot be taking place. You will be wasting time.


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## hyper_janice

Qsw said:


> Sorry to hear about your bad experiences here. I hope one day, as do the vast majority of decent Egyptians, that sexual harassment here will die down and be a thing of the past. I hope that one day people here will feel safe, as safe as is possible.
> 
> Unfortunately the problem will not go away for a long time, as there are lots of societal problems that are causing it. And the stereotypes put together by the ignorant, the ones that go unchallenged, end up becoming widespread, thus encouraging this behavior. My cousins all complain about this, they are all Egyptian, but I know it happens more frequently with foreigners.
> 
> There aren't any real solutions other than being extremely careful about where you go, even though it's not possible to avoid it completely. There's that "Harass Map" site, I'm not sure if it's useful.
> 
> 
> I hope you don't let this form a bad image of Egyptians as others have done. This is not something that Egyptians do, this is something that harassers who happen to be Egyptian do. Our society has more of these people for various reasons, which I am seeing in person now. Please realize that the vast majority of the decent people here find this behavior disgusting. It's not an "Egyptian" thing as some are trying to imply. It's just a lot worse here than it is in other places.
> 
> There's not much to do to fight it right now, maybe soon more support will be given to organizations that are trying to fight this problem. The general security situation I think will be fixed once within a year or two I hope. It may take a long time, but eventually these problems will be solved.
> 
> I really hope you never have to experience those types of situations again, good luck!


I did find the Harass Map site after all the crap happened but didn't post any thing since too much time had passed. Didn't see the point in posting old news and you're right, that is no solution, at least immediate solution.


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## expatagogo

I've tried to count the number of times I've been "ripped off" in Egypt and the answer is NEVER. Nobody can get more money than they have coming unless I give it to them because the only fingers taking money from my wallet are my own.


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## MaidenScotland

expatagogo said:


> I've tried to count the number of times I've been "ripped off" in Egypt and the answer is NEVER. Nobody can get more money than they have coming unless I give it to them because the only fingers taking money from my wallet are my own.





Good view on it... but hey I am quite street wise and still have paid far too much for things.


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## Sonrisa

expatagogo said:


> I've tried to count the number of times I've been "ripped off" in Egypt and the answer is NEVER. Nobody can get more money than they have coming unless I give it to them because the only fingers taking money from my wallet are my own.



Really? Nobody has tried to rip you off?

They must think I am imbecile, because they try to rip me off all the time. I am in cosntant arguments about the price of things. And almost daily I am shortchanged. It gets very monotonous having to count my change and rereading the check to make sure they are charging me for the correct things. 

Only the other day my husband had to take a taxi back to to Metro because he happend to read the supermarket receipt only when he arrived home, instead of charging me for baladi bananas, they had charged me for Imported Plumbs, so without realising I had paid over LE50 for a few little local banas. Cheeky little *&$%*


----------



## MaidenScotland

Sonrisa said:


> Really? Nobody has tried to rip you off?
> 
> They must think I am imbecile, because they try to rip me off all the time. I am in cosntant arguments about the price of things. And almost daily I am shortchanged. It gets very monotonous having to count my change and rereading the check to make sure they are charging me for the correct things.
> 
> Only the other day my husband had to take a taxi back to to Metro because he happend to read the supermarket receipt only when he arrived home, instead of charging me for baladi bananas, they had charged me for Imported Plumbs, so without realising I had paid over LE50 for a few little local banas. Cheeky little *&$%*




I would think that in the metro that was a genuine mistake.. hitting the wrong till key

but then again they should be watching and realise they have made a mistake, it's not as if they go that fast.


----------



## expatagogo

Sonrisa said:


> Really? Nobody has tried to rip you off?


I didn't say nobody's tried because they certainly have. 

white + blonde + female + foreign = walking ATM

Right?

But, as I said, nobody takes money out of my wallet but me and if I pay too much, it's nobody's fault but my own.


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## MaidenScotland

expatagogo said:


> I didn't say nobody's tried because they certainly have.
> 
> white + blonde + female + foreign = walking ATM
> 
> Right?
> 
> But, as I said, nobody takes money out of my wallet but me and if I pay too much, it's nobody's fault but my own.




so the first day you came here you knew what the prices of things should be?


----------



## Sonrisa

MaidenScotland said:


> I would think that in the metro that was a genuine mistake.. hitting the wrong till key
> 
> but then again they should be watching and realise they have made a mistake, it's not as if they go that fast.


Could have been a mistake. But after a while here one gets cynical about these things. I wonder why their little mistakes never go the other way round and fouvour me for once.


----------



## expatagogo

MaidenScotland said:


> so the first day you came here you knew what the prices of things should be?


I think you're missing my point, Maiden.

I'm sure I've paid too much, we probably all have. However, nobody took that money from me; I handed it over all by myself.

ETA: It's so frustrating to see all of this "I've been lied to and ripped off every corner I turn and Egypt is nothing but a bunch of liars and thieves!!!!!!!" because that's not true at all and to paint the entire country with such a wide brush is nothing short of disgusting.


----------



## MaidenScotland

expatagogo said:


> I think you're missing my point, Maiden.
> 
> I'm sure I've paid too much, we probably all have. However, nobody took that money from me; I handed it over all by myself.
> 
> ETA: It's so frustrating to see all of this "I've been lied to and ripped off every corner I turn and Egypt is nothing but a bunch of liars and thieves!!!!!!!" because that's not true at all and to paint the entire country with such a wide brush is nothing short of disgusting.




You handed over your money believing you paid the correct price for it... to be charged extra because you are foreign is imo being ripped off. If you are happy with that then fine.
If you were deliberately charged too much in the USA because you were not quite sure how much things cost.. I would guess you would say your being ripped off.

I don't get ripped off in my local shop although one of their new assistants tried to do me out of two bottles of water .. the next day he was gone from the shop.. I guess the owner got rid of him.


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## Lanason

MaidenScotland said:


> You handed over your money believing you paid the correct price for it... to be charged extra because you are foreign is imo being ripped off. If you are happy with that then fine.
> If you were deliberately charged too much in the USA because you were not quite sure how much things cost.. I would guess you would say your being ripped off.
> 
> I don't get ripped off in my local shop although one of their new assistants tried to do me out of two bottles of water .. the next day he was gone from the shop.. I guess the owner got rid of him.


I agree with expatagogo - If the price has been upped then its "buyer beware" - of course the price rises - sometimes I know, but see it as giving a bit of "charity" especially in small local shops.

I check prices with my colleagues at work to see what they pay. A lot of shops I go to have scanners and bar code readers - so price is fixed:eyebrows:


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## MaidenScotland

I shake my head in disbelief... if that happened in your home country you would not consider it as giving to charity.. so why is it acceptable practice to you here?


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## Lanason

MaidenScotland said:


> I shake my head in disbelief... if that happened in your home country you would not consider it as giving to charity.. so why is it acceptable practice to you here?


Come on - these guys are poor and a few extra pennies is no skin of my nose - they are trying to make a living it also depends on their attitude and if I'm in a good mood 

Actually the service we have had when we return to these shops is great.  so it cuts both way. Of course, if I dont like the price I either walk away or negotiate :eyebrows:

Of course in England the standard of living is much higher so don't feel the need:clap2:


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## Eco-Mariner

Come on Adrian.... You are condoning theft. 
And if they get away with it the practice surely multiplies. 
Then prices spiral out of control as we've seen over the past 5 years.


Eco-Mariner.


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## ArabianNights

SHendra said:


> Arabian you must not think anyone is against you, I doubt anyone is. You have had a difficult time trying to settle in there and the let say the adventures you've had have not been pleasent. By the sound of it your uni somehow has misled you including your teachers.. if that was me I would not even want to study with them!! It would be a simple case of cutting the losses and going. I'm also going to say your living in one of the worse areas of Alex's for a foreigner.. you got some of Alex's most poorest living in and around that area going northwards. Maybe it why you been targetted alot there too.


Your so sweet, SHendra... I dont think anyone is 'against' me per se, its just that everyone I interact with here see me as someone they can 'play about' with simply because I am foreign and everything is about the money. The University of Alexandria here have a 'link' with my University in London, which is why I came here. I am also having issues with my department back in London - because of the year abroad in regards to the fact that this program isn't organized. It is not only the fault of the University here in Alexandria, but also my University back home. In any other situation, I would happily cut the losses and move off, but the consequences are high

The area that I am living in is certainly not the best, but I do not think it is THAT bad - although if I had a choice, I wouldn't be here. I could move and find another place to live - but that would mean all the hassles that come with it and all the money I would loose in the process, and considering its *only* four months, I am not too sure its worth it.



> I soon learnt walking around Miami/Mamorna/Manshaya by myself = a hard time and was just not worth the hassle. I only ventured to those places if someone was with me. Just how it goes.


See, if I had someone with me then I am sure that I would not have encountered many of the problems that I am encountering here. Even going into a 'western style' restaurant causing eyelids of waiters to flick, when a girl on her own walks in and asks for a table for one. Its not just the place, the people and the ripping off and other stuff, its also being alone here. People keep saying there are are good Egyptians out here and that one should make efforts to socialize with them - how, where? here can I meet normal Egyptians that do not see me as a walking ATM machine and question me with *suspicion* as to why I am a girl living on her own in Egypt?

I have no choice but to walk about in Miami and all over Alex or anywhere in Egypt on my own. 



> As for the taxis it same as I always said before. Have the cash ready for your A to B in the correct amount. Get to B, get out of the car.. hand the man the money and walk away. No need to talk to him at all.. only for your destination and to hena when you wish to stop! Thats it. Said before also about the shopping stick to the supermarkets and your be fine in that to.


Yes, when I take a cab, this is what I do now. I think its just a case of dealing with taxi drivers who like to look in the mirror back at you and wondering why a female (who looks Egyptian) is traveling alone. This leads to them speaking to me, asking me questions, (a nice line is, "where exactly at your destination do you want to go to?... followed by "where are you from", after realizing I am not Egyptian) which leads to them realizing that I am in fact foreign. Then they have this idea in their mind that they can rip me off, or do even worse - who knows, they could take me down a back ally somewhere, if they wanted to and do anything. I know they are thinking this. To counter this, I have to make up a fake story - such as my husband is waiting for me at home, or that my family are waiting for me at my destination and the rest of it. I have to lie in order to survive here and its not only in the cab. Having to do this every single time I sit in a cab, can be frustrating. I try to counter this by just listening to my headphones, or closing my eyes, to make it look like I am sick (headache) and not in the mood to talk or whatever... doesnt work, they still talk. 

This is why I take a microbus, because it is not just me and the driver - buses go on a specific routing and there are many other people. Because there is no risk of being talked to by the driver or anyone on the bus, people just assume by looking at me that I am just another Egyptian. There is no reason for someone to speak to me on the bus, apart from maybe ask what the fare is, and that can be responded by me, with a few words in Arabic, which are few enough not to reveal my non-Egyptian accent. I know the fare, pay it and sit silent until I get off. Much easier then having to go through all what I explained in a taxi. 



> Its' made me a stronger person and very grateful to have the choices in life that I do have. Because at the end of the day the country we are born into is pure luck!


I agree. I think that when I do leave - I am positive that I will miss aspects of Egypt, there are good people here, not all are bad. Living here in Egypt as certainly given me lots of 'skills', shall I say  in dealing with people and being able to deal with certain situations or problems. My language has also improved here and I think that is key to living in places like Egypt. I dont regret taking my year abroad here - in fact when I leave, it will have made me into a better person and refined a lot of the characteristics that I already had.

I dont blame them sometimes, either - but its not nice to be at the brunt of their political issues or any other issues they have. Just because they are poor, it doesnt justify ripping me off. This is my thinking - I could be wrong as far as others are concerned. I dont consider myself poor, but I am not a millionaire either. I do not have an endless resource of cash, that I can handle having to accept the ripping off. Its quite normal for someone to want to keep to a budget, or want to pay a certain amount in return for something that you think is fair. A chocolate bar in Metro costs 3.50LE and to Egyptians that could be expensive, for me, I think it is fair. What is considered rich for one person can be poor for another. I am sure that in comparison to Bill Gates, I am very very poor indeed  .... Jokes aside, though, the Expats who live here on their nice expat packages may not be rich, but they fare well considering the allowances provided to them by their employer. Back home in their own country, they are still plain old Joe.


----------



## Lanason

Eco-Mariner said:


> Come on Adrian.... You are condoning theft.
> And if they get away with it the practice surely multiplies.
> Then prices spiral out of control as we've seen over the past 5 years.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.


Theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it.

So how, in heavens name, can an "Invitation to treat" or an "Offer", which is then accepted by my payment be considered theft in any form what so ever. 

By handing over the money I am giving consent.


----------



## ArabianNights

crewmeal said:


> ArabianNights - I'm sorry that you have had a bad time here, but as others have suggested perhaps it's time to draw a line under all this, move on and study elsewhere. I suggest Jordan. They have excellent Uni's and Colleges and your quality of life will be improved. Having lived in Jordan they will sympathise with your circumstances and help you. There shouldn't be any problems with your husband entering on a visitor's visa.
> 
> What is the point of enduring all this unhappiness in an unstable country. Your studies must be constantly interrupted and therefore learning cannot be taking place. You will be wasting time.


In all honesty - I kinda regret not going to Jordan. My options were Qatar, Syria and Egypt being a last resort. The reason Egypt was my last resort, was because the University of Alexandria is 'linked' to my University back home and we were led to believe that a 'link' meant that everything would be organized for those on this program - including accommodation, etc. It wasnt until a few weeks before I was going to come, that I realized that this was not the case - but I didnt know how hard everything was going to be here, especially finding a place to live, for example

Qatar was reliant on a scholarship with everything being included, but that fell through, Syria was a choice, because it had a good reputation, but due to the revolution there - it was not an option anymore, so I had to reluctantly come to Egypt. I inquired and researched about Jordan and their fees were much much higher then Egypt and living expenses much much higher too... this was what was told to me by other Arabs and my research showed this too. Actually, 2 of my classmates from London went to Jordan, but they went through an organized Christian program, for Christians wanting to learn Arabic and their curriculum apart from language was Christian based - I was not eligible. So, even if I was in Jordan, I would have been on my own - but still, prices and fees were a deciding point. Had I known that I was going to deal with these issues, I would have rather spent the bit extra and gone then. I had lived in Egypt before for a month (not long enough, of course), but not Jordan... I thought I knew what to expect... as one does...


----------



## Eco-Mariner

Because once they take it from you Adrian (which is not actually being tipped) they expect it as the norm from everyone following you.


Eco-Mariner.


----------



## expatagogo

Lanason said:


> Theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it.
> 
> So how, in heavens name, can an "Invitation to treat" or an "Offer", which is then accepted by my payment be considered theft in any form what so ever.
> 
> By handing over the money I am giving consent.


Exactly!

Nobody is stealing it if I give it to them; it's my choice to pay the price they've said or walk away without.

Paying too much for anything isn't being "ripped off" nearly as much as it is being stupid with money.


----------



## ArabianNights

Lanason said:


> Come on - these guys are poor and a few extra pennies is no skin of my nose - they are trying to make a living it also depends on their attitude and if I'm in a good mood
> 
> Actually the service we have had when we return to these shops is great.  so it cuts both way. Of course, if I dont like the price I either walk away or negotiate :eyebrows:
> 
> Of course in England the standard of living is much higher so don't feel the need:clap2:


If you think these people are so poor and need the extra few pennies and its no skin, then tip them. Thing is, these people expect to rip you off, plus tip them. 

If the service is good, then tip them. If the service is bad, then don't tip them. I was in a restaurant yesterday and had a meal - which was of bad quality, the plate itself was bigger (a lot bigger!) then the amount of food that was in it. I had a very large dinner plate, which had 6 pieces of 'chips' and was charged 45LE for it. 

Now what are you saying, that I should not question this, because its no skin off your nose?


----------



## expatagogo

ArabianNights said:


> I had a very large dinner plate, which had 6 pieces of 'chips' and was charged 45LE for it.


For 60 LE you could have had someone come in and cook, as well as give your flat a good cleaning.


----------



## hurghadapat

Sonrisa said:


> Really? Nobody has tried to rip you off?
> 
> They must think I am imbecile, because they try to rip me off all the time. I am in cosntant arguments about the price of things. And almost daily I am shortchanged. It gets very monotonous having to count my change and rereading the check to make sure they are charging me for the correct things.
> 
> Only the other day my husband had to take a taxi back to to Metro because he happend to read the supermarket receipt only when he arrived home, instead of charging me for baladi bananas, they had charged me for Imported Plumbs, so without realising I had paid over LE50 for a few little local banas. Cheeky little *&$%*


Lol...many times i have had them add on a packet of cigarettes in Metro....but always checked my bill before handing over money...even if it did hold up everyone behind me.


----------



## ArabianNights

expatagogo said:


> For 60 LE you could have had someone come in and cook, as well as give your flat a good cleaning.


Last time I had a cleaner come in, I was also ripped off there. I give up, cheaper to clean my apartment myself. I paid 100LE. It only costs around 17LE to purchase the cleaning products and that too, from Metro.


----------



## MaidenScotland

I have a shop in Spain.. please come visit it Adrian ..


----------



## hurghadapat

Lanason said:


> I agree with expatagogo - If the price has been upped then its "buyer beware" - of course the price rises - sometimes I know, but see it as giving a bit of "charity" especially in small local shops.
> 
> I check prices with my colleagues at work to see what they pay. A lot of shops I go to have scanners and bar code readers - so price is fixed:eyebrows:


Don't agree with this "giving a bit of charity" as just makes it all the harder for ex-pats who are clued up and are not on an ex-pat package....ie...the more you pay over the top and the more they think we are all able to afford to be ripped of.


----------



## ArabianNights

lol


----------



## MaidenScotland

hurghadapat said:


> Don't agree with this "giving a bit of charity" as just makes it all the harder for ex-pats who are clued up and are not on an ex-pat package....ie...the more you pay over the top and the more they think we are all able to afford to be ripped of.




And lets be honest.. we have no idea on the shop keepers bank balance.

I very rarely get my shopping delivered but I always tip the guy who puts my shopping into bags..

I will tip and tip generously but it should be my choice!


----------



## hurghadapat

MaidenScotland said:


> And lets be honest.. we have no idea on the shop keepers bank balance.
> 
> I very rarely get my shopping delivered but I always tip the guy who puts my shopping into bags..
> 
> I will tip and tip generously but it should be my choice!


Totally agree....backsheesh is a way of life in egypt...but only tip for a service and after all these tips are only small money and that is all any egyptian would give them.


----------



## Lanason

ArabianNights said:


> If you think these people are so poor and need the extra few pennies and its no skin, then tip them. Thing is, these people expect to rip you off, plus tip them.
> 
> If the service is good, then tip them. If the service is bad, then don't tip them. I was in a restaurant yesterday and had a meal - which was of bad quality, the plate itself was bigger (a lot bigger!) then the amount of food that was in it. I had a very large dinner plate, which had 6 pieces of 'chips' and was charged 45LE for it.
> 
> Now what are you saying, that I should not question this, because its no skin off your nose?


Err, if you order a meal and don't get what you expect then complain - send it back - walk out - refuse to pay. Take it a far as you want.:eyebrows: up to you.

What I am saying is that if the price for goods is more than "the norm" then either pay it or say no. Simples

for example I went to get some screws, nails etc from our local DIY store - was my price 20 LE rather than 10 LE? Maybe, but I got what I needed and the guys were nice. In the UK it would be 50 LE or more. So what the hell.


----------



## ArabianNights

The best way to give money to charity/Zakat is through a registered organization and one that is well known and has a good reputation. 

How to Give to Charity the Right Way - Money - Health.com


----------



## Lanason

MaidenScotland said:


> I have a shop in Spain.. please come visit it Adrian ..


Love to  

Send me the flight tickets when you book for me - I just need a few days notice.:eyebrows:


----------



## Eco-Mariner

I went into that shop for some screws too..... The owner asked "how long do you want them?"

To which I replied...... "I want to keep them..."


Eco-Mariner


----------



## Lanason

hurghadapat said:


> Don't agree with this "giving a bit of charity" as just makes it all the harder for ex-pats who are clued up and are not on an ex-pat package....ie...the more you pay over the top and the more they think we are all able to afford to be ripped of.


I didn't say I wasn't clued up  - but I do take your point about it being harder for ex-pats not on an expat package

Don't think there will many of these in Rehab though


----------



## MaidenScotland

Adrian

I will use Pat as an example.. I am sure she wont mind.

Adrians goes into the store and pays 5 pounds for his 2 pound nail, Pat comes in behind him to buy the same nail and of course as Adrian has just handed over 5 pounds the shopkeeper tells Pat, 5 pounds.. now Pat really needs this nail but she only has 2 pound because she is not on an expat package and cannot afford 5 pound...so giving the shopkeeper an extra 3 pounds has made life very difficult for Pat... she now has no where to hang her coat.
The shopkeeper now realises that an expat will pay 5 pound for a two pound item.. and he tells all his friends.. so now Pat cannot afford to shop anywhere because Adrian got there before her.


----------



## ArabianNights

Lanason said:


> Err, if you order a meal and don't get what you expect then complain - send it back - walk out - refuse to pay. Take it a far as you want.:eyebrows: up to you.


Trust me. Judging by my other posts here, you can see that all I do is nothing but complain. Thats all I seem to do these days, is complain. I complain about the smoking, I complain that my health has flared up due to its consequences (and my clothes stink), .... there are many other complaints. I am sick of having to complain about each and every single thing. It gets tedious and you lot have to bear the brunt of it, and then you lot complaint about my complaining 



> for example I went to get some screws, nails etc from our local DIY store - was my price 20 LE rather than 10 LE? Maybe, but I got what I needed and the guys were nice. In the UK it would be 50 LE or more. So what the hell.


I use my near-nothing student loan funding and primarily my savings to live here. Again, I will get slaps for saying this - like I have been before, but I am not on an expat package and I simply cannot afford to keep getting ripped off. When I get ripped off, it usually means paying more then English prices here in Egypt. In London, I pay 1 English pound for 4 chicken fried wings and a very generous amount of french fries (huge portion in the Halal places). Here, I have to pay 1 English pound for 4 chips.

For me, England can be much cheaper in many respects.


----------



## ArabianNights

I'm going to write a letter to Tony Blair and see what he has to say about all this.


----------



## hurghadapat

ArabianNights said:


> Last time I had a cleaner come in, I was also ripped off there. I give up, cheaper to clean my apartment myself. I paid 100LE. It only costs around 17LE to purchase the cleaning products and that too, from Metro.


I really don't get where you are coming from Arabian....one minute you are saying you are pushed for money then next thing you are saying you have been travelling to Luxor,next you had to have a trip to Dubai to get over it all,now you are saying you employed a cleaner :confused2:also you say your husband applied for a visa to be with you while you studied at uni...does he not have work in the UK.


----------



## MaidenScotland

ArabianNights said:


> Trust me. Judging by my other posts here, you can see that all I do is nothing but complain. Thats all I seem to do these days, is complain. I complain about the smoking, I complain that my health has flared up due to its consequences (and my clothes stink), .... there are many other complaints. I am sick of having to complain about each and every single thing. It gets tedious and you lot have to bear the brunt of it, and then you lot complaint about my complaining
> 
> 
> 
> I use my near-nothing student loan funding and primarily my savings to live here. Again, I will get slaps for saying this - like I have been before, but I am not on an expat package and I simply cannot afford to keep getting ripped off. When I get ripped off, it usually means paying more then English prices here in Egypt. In London, I pay 1 English pound for 4 chicken fried wings and a very generous amount of french fries (huge portion in the Halal places). Here, I have to pay 1 English pound for 4 chips.
> 
> For me, England can be much cheaper in many respects.




I don't find eating out in Egypt cheap by any means.. you see a price then it is plus plus. I can eat out much more cheaply in Spain and in the UK. Now someone will come on and say if you go to a local place you can eat very cheaply.. quite frankly I wont set foot in some of those places.. I don't eat in **** holes anywhere else so why would I here>


----------



## ArabianNights

hurghadapat said:


> I really don't get where you are coming from Arabian....one minute you are saying you are pushed for money then next thing you are saying you have been travelling to Luxor,next you had to have a trip to Dubai to get over it all,now you are saying you employed a cleaner :confused2:also you say your husband applied for a visa to be with you while you studied at uni...does he not have work in the UK.


Pat.... I think you are confused. I dont know why people say that I said I was 'poor' I never said that I was poor, I said that I am being ripped off. There is a difference between being ripped of and being poor. I employed a cleaner ONCE when I moved into my apartment, and I was ripped off. I dont know whats so confusing? :confused2: 

My husband doesnt live in the UK.

I think that people here read bits and bobs of posts, and come up with different conclusions and assumptions.


----------



## Lanason

MaidenScotland said:


> Adrian
> 
> I will use Pat as an example.. I am sure she wont mind.
> 
> Adrians goes into the store and pays 5 pounds for his 2 pound nail, Pat comes in behind him to buy the same nail and of course as Adrian has just handed over 5 pounds the shopkeeper tells Pat, 5 pounds.. now Pat really needs this nail but she only has 2 pound because she is not on an expat package and cannot afford 5 pound...so giving the shopkeeper an extra 3 pounds has made life very difficult for Pat... she now has no where to hang her coat.
> The shopkeeper now realises that an expat will pay 5 pound for a two pound item.. and he tells all his friends.. so now Pat cannot afford to shop anywhere because Adrian got there before her.


Yeah - I do understand the point being made - but thank you for your very detailed and simple explanation  

and I accepted the validity of that point:nod:


----------



## ArabianNights

MaidenScotland said:


> I don't find eating out in Egypt cheap by any means.. you see a price then it is plus plus. I can eat out much more cheaply in Spain and in the UK. Now someone will come on and say if you go to a local place you can eat very cheaply.. quite frankly I wont set foot in some of those places.. I don't eat in **** holes anywhere else so why would I here>


I used to get those cheap felafel sandwiches on my way to University every morning (not because I am 'poor'  ) and in the end, I just got sick of them. But yes, you are right, I can get more for my money in the UK then I do here. Here you have to pay out of the odds to get what you want (and saying that doesn't mean I am poor)


----------



## hurghadapat

MaidenScotland said:


> Adrian
> 
> I will use Pat as an example.. I am sure she wont mind.
> 
> Adrians goes into the store and pays 5 pounds for his 2 pound nail, Pat comes in behind him to buy the same nail and of course as Adrian has just handed over 5 pounds the shopkeeper tells Pat, 5 pounds.. now Pat really needs this nail but she only has 2 pound because she is not on an expat package and cannot afford 5 pound...so giving the shopkeeper an extra 3 pounds has made life very difficult for Pat... she now has no where to hang her coat.
> The shopkeeper now realises that an expat will pay 5 pound for a two pound item.. and he tells all his friends.. so now Pat cannot afford to shop anywhere because Adrian got there before her.


Love your example maiden and you explained it perfectly....but didn't take me long to learn how the land lay "if you get my drift" and decided the easiest way to make life a bit easier was to learn the language and also as much as possible use the same shops so they got to know me and realised i also knew the prices so that when they tried it on a quick...Bikam di/da (how much is this)...then if asking to much..Eeyda (what is this) usually did the trick.


----------



## ArabianNights

hurghadapat said:


> Love your example maiden and you explained it perfectly....but didn't take me long to learn how the land lay "if you get my drift" and decided the easiest way to make life a bit easier was to learn the language and also as much as possible use the same shops so they got to know me and realised i also knew the prices so that when they tried it on a quick...Bikam di/da (how much is this)...then if asking to much..Eeyda (what is this) usually did the trick.


Having language certainly does make a difference... this is my only 'weapon' here! :eyebrows:


----------



## hurghadapat

ArabianNights said:


> Having language certainly does make a difference... this is my only 'weapon' here! :eyebrows:


So then your life should really be much easier because in my experince once you speak to them in their own language they back off also you have to do as the egyptians do and don't be afraid to shout at them...just watch the egyptian women when they are shopping,they don't take any slack believe me.A woman on their own in Egypt who is not on an ex-pat package has to be strong believe me you have to live the day to day life and not let them get the better of you so look on every day as an adventure and a learning curve and don't let it get you down.


----------



## ArabianNights

Thanks, HughadaPat


----------



## MaidenScotland

I recall years ago buying a little book basically to start me off in Arabic.. I can't remember the title but it turned out to be a book with pick up lines, how to ask for the man to wear a condom, dirty jokes and sexual positions ...


Thinking hard now... it was something like Pick Up and get by in Arabic.. I was thought the Pick up part meant the book was small so easily to carry around.


----------



## marimar

SHendra said:


> I feel kinda silly to be honest. When I was first new in Alex's my ex husband was giving me all these warnings of what areas are okay, how to deal with the taxis and what to do in certain situations and so on. I use to think he was being to over protective and it use to drive me nuts! But as time went on and I started to learn I actually found he was being correct he was actually just looking out for my interests. I soon learnt walking around Miami/Mamorna/Manshaya by myself = a hard time and was just not worth the hassle. I only ventured to those places if someone was with me. Just how it goes.


I know what you mean, my husband is the same. He tells me something and I'm like "what, are you mad, why is it like that?" but then I just realise, he knows what he's talking about, he's Egyptian and knows the culture so well. I have learnt so much from him and that's why I try to help others by passing on these little "tips" to help others here who don't have the help of a local.

For example, women, don't get in a lift with a male if you are alone, even in my building if there is a man waiting for the lift I tell him to go ahead and i'll wait and they always tell me to use the lift first and they will wait for it to return.

Don't sit in the front of a taxi beside the driver if the car is empty, its an invitation for the driver to be chatty and possibly touchy feely.

I'm sure I'll think of others later, after all, forewarned is forearmed!!!


----------



## marenostrum

MaidenScotland said:


> I recall years ago buying a little book basically to start me off in Arabic.. I can't remember the title but it turned out to be a book with pick up lines, how to ask for the man to wear a condom, dirty jokes and sexual positions ...


In a nutshell the problem here is that egyptians make too much use of the right hand and not enough of the real thing.....:focus:


----------



## SHendra

marimar said:


> I know what you mean, my husband is the same. He tells me something and I'm like "what, are you mad, why is it like that?" but then I just realise, he knows what he's talking about, he's Egyptian and knows the culture so well. I have learnt so much from him and that's why I try to help others by passing on these little "tips" to help others here who don't have the help of a local.
> 
> For example, women, don't get in a lift with a male if you are alone, even in my building if there is a man waiting for the lift I tell him to go ahead and i'll wait and they always tell me to use the lift first and they will wait for it to return.
> 
> Don't sit in the front of a taxi beside the driver if the car is empty, its an invitation for the driver to be chatty and possibly touchy feely.
> 
> I'm sure I'll think of others later, after all, forewarned is forearmed!!!


The touchy bit actually did happen to me a taxi and yes because I got in the front! I was new to Egypt at the time and got to admit I learnt fast from that. I went to give the driver his cash which turned into an arguement I was in internet terms a noob! I refused to pay more so instead he lent over to me and tried to grab my chest .. I swore and slapped him accross the face and got out the car. With the locals staring at me! It was from that moment I had to develope a tougher side and basically learnt not to argue by just paying what I think I should and get on with my day. 

Arabian I know you say you can't help where you walk around etc as your on your own but let me make something clear here.. Even though I had my ex husband and his family in Alexs I was infact on my own 90% of the time! I went out by myself and had to get about by myself most of the time which is why I learnt quick on how to deal with things cause I to didn't have superman to my aid! Sure I could 'call' the hubby if needed but what could he do in a emergency if I'm over the other side of the city? I had to learn how to deal with all eventualities on my own. When your new in the country you do notice people looking/staring all the time or it how it seams but as time goes on you start to not notice anymore unless you go somewhere where not many outsiders go. Use to amaze me with the Alexandrian's on how they can tell who not from the city.. nevermind the country!!


----------



## hurghadapat

marenostrum said:


> In a nutshell the problem here is that egyptians make too much use of the right hand and not enough of the real thing.....:focus:


:jaw:..Now Deadguy assured us he doesn't partake of that pleasure.


----------



## marenostrum

hurghadapat said:


> :jaw:..Now Deadguy assured us he doesn't partake of that pleasure.


Maybe he is left handed........

anyhow enough of this chit chat or Maiden's big lock will appear on this thread with a big closed sign on it. :focus:


----------



## aykalam

marenostrum said:


> Maybe he is left handed........


:laugh: :clap2:


----------



## ArabianNights

Why has this thread become.... talking about DeadGuy's ***** why Deadguy? lol


----------



## expatagogo

ArabianNights said:


> Why has this thread become.... talking about DeadGuy's ***** why Deadguy? lol


Cuz he's not here to defend himself.


----------



## ArabianNights

Ohhh the poor thing.... God bless him


----------



## DeadGuy

Lanason said:


> I agree with expatagogo - If the price has been upped then its "buyer beware" - of course the price rises - sometimes I know, but see it as giving a bit of "charity" especially in small local shops.
> 
> I check prices with my colleagues at work to see what they pay. A lot of shops I go to have scanners and bar code readers - so price is fixed:eyebrows:


Not sure how do you people define tips, but for me tips is the extra money that I'd CHOOSE to leave when I'm paying for a service that someone offered me, the extra money I'd need to pay to get an ITEM that costs less than what I paid is a RIP OFF for me..........Unless I'm buying something that I REALLY need and only available in specific store and they made it clear that they're charging extra cause only their store have this item, in this case it would be more of...........Blackmail? 

Besides..............Those who actually NEED charity would never let you do it this way if they knew your intentions......


----------



## DeadGuy

marenostrum said:


> Maybe he is left handed........
> 
> anyhow enough of this chit chat or Maiden's big lock will appear on this thread with a big closed sign on it. :focus:


Nope! Right handed I swear! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Think I need to put THAT post of mine again, with a lil bigger font size 



DeadGuy said:


> CORRECTION!!!! In bed *TRYING *to sleep!!
> 
> And now that the "Egyptian favorite behaviors" was mentioned, I think I also need to confirm that *ALTHOUGH *I am an Egyptian guy, but no, I was NOT in bed trying to sleep while watching porns, nor was I making love to any of my hands thank you very much! :lol:
> 
> If anyone else got ANY doubts about what I may have been doing while I was away, just read my previous post carefully! :lol:
> 
> Thank you all again


And now I think what's said about how similar Egyptians and Italians are is true :lol:


----------



## Qsw

MaidenScotland said:


> I agree with most of what you have said but remember if all you meet are scammers, thieves and sexual predators then of course your view of a place will be coloured. The daily onslaught gets very weary.
> 
> It is easy to tell people how to do things.. I after all would have have stopped the taxi if he had turned my meter off and got out .. you didn't why not?
> 
> Don't do this, don't go there is not the problem.. the problem is with the people who do this and yes we must take precautions to try and prevent these thing but when are the Egyptian people going to stand up to these people who give them a bad name, who stop tourist coming and spending their dollars? This is not a new problem this has been going on for ever and I am sure each and every one of us had been had and will be again.. can you not see this is not a good view for anyone?
> 
> The victim is not to blame!!


I wish we could lock up all the sexual predators, and that Egyptian society as a whole would become much more vocal about how their activities are wrong, but for now it is just a problem that has to be dealt with, sadly. There are simply too many frustrated men (for a variety of reasons) and not enough of a legal/societal deterrent to discourage them from their disgusting behavior. Not that this justifies their behavior, it is despicable and cannot be justified.

The least the government can do now is announce extremely harsh laws against these crimes, and make sure that criminals know they will be enforced. The solutions will have to come from the government I think, being strongly pressured by organizations supported by the decent majority. Since this is something I believe liberals and Islamists both have a similar opinion on, its possible that it could happen. But even then, we'll need an effective, visible police force with a fast response time.

I also wish the taxis would stop ripping off people. Because there is minimal regulation of them here though, the odds of that are low. New regulations can be introduced, I hope, so that when you get ripped off there is some method to report it, and then punished accordingly. Eventually this could force them to clean up their act. I don't think the laws or regulations are in place yet to force that kind of scenario. So the only way to protect yourself is to basically prevent the rip-offs from occurring as best you can, and then moving on after they happen. 

I can certainly see how it is frustrating to have to deal with these types of situations more regularly than you would elsewhere. At the end of the day you have to look for your peace of mind. I can certainly justify to myself paying extra for something when I think the person asking for the money needs it, and is not an indecent person. Others have different views. 

Once, I believed a taxi driver was charging me more than they should have, by 1.50 LE. I let that irritate me. I realized, if I start to get this annoyed about such a small amount, I'll end up paying much more than 1.5 extra. So I simply move on, and do my best not to let the little things annoy me. Now I will argue as much as I can without letting myself get angry, and will simply tell taxis to move on if they don't like the price I negotiate before getting in. If I can't be bothered to argue, I'll take my chances and see how well they drive, and how much they decide to charge. If a big problem comes up after that, well, I haven't had to deal with that yet. I also call taxis who I like when I need to get around in Alex when I don't want to put up with the taxi process.

If a taxi driver is trying to charge you more because you are foreign, you shouldn't put up with it. I'm not saying to start fights with them, but if you know how much you should pay for the trip, give them that much + the tip if you want, and just walk out, and try to be polite. The ideal would be to work only with verified taxis.

I've even seen Egyptians get out and then pay, and they would probably be more lenient with foreigners that do that. Be careful to note though, sitting in traffic means you pay extra. I think its 0.25-0.5 LE for each minute of being in the taxi, based on what I saw sitting in a metered taxi. Since I think DeadGuy has been here much longer than I have, he might have better advice about this. I'm not trying to tell people what to do, I'm still learning myself, I guess I am just saying try to take it as a learning experience rather than let it get to you. So far I am doing that and having a much better time.

I'm certainly not blaming the victim, I didn't mean to give that impression. What I'm saying is, in terms of rip-off situations, you have to accept some of the blame if you don't try to prevent them from occurring in the future. I have learned how to avoid it for the most part and am much happier here as a result. One day I hope it won't be necessary to learn this kind of thing to have a good time here, and in other places. 

Egypt is basically a place with little regulation and lots of flexibility. The people here depend on each other and basic human decency a lot more than they would in other places, where you can simply bring down a legal hammer on deviants. Education is the only way to 'nip this problem in the bud'.

Off to Cairo now, hoping to have/make it a pleasant experience


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## hurghadapat

Qsw said:


> I wish we could lock up all the sexual predators, and that Egyptian society as a whole would become much more vocal about how their activities are wrong, but for now it is just a problem that has to be dealt with, sadly. There are simply too many frustrated men (for a variety of reasons) and not enough of a legal/societal deterrent to discourage them from their disgusting behavior. Not that this justifies their behavior, it is despicable and cannot be justified.
> 
> The least the government can do now is announce extremely harsh laws against these crimes, and make sure that criminals know they will be enforced. The solutions will have to come from the government I think, being strongly pressured by organizations supported by the decent majority. Since this is something I believe liberals and Islamists both have a similar opinion on, its possible that it could happen. But even then, we'll need an effective, visible police force with a fast response time.
> 
> I also wish the taxis would stop ripping off people. Because there is minimal regulation of them here though, the odds of that are low. New regulations can be introduced, I hope, so that when you get ripped off there is some method to report it, and then punished accordingly. Eventually this could force them to clean up their act. I don't think the laws or regulations are in place yet to force that kind of scenario. So the only way to protect yourself is to basically prevent the rip-offs from occurring as best you can, and then moving on after they happen.
> 
> I can certainly see how it is frustrating to have to deal with these types of situations more regularly than you would elsewhere. At the end of the day you have to look for your peace of mind. I can certainly justify to myself paying extra for something when I think the person asking for the money needs it, and is not an indecent person. Others have different views.
> 
> Once, I believed a taxi driver was charging me more than they should have, by 1.50 LE. I let that irritate me. I realized, if I start to get this annoyed about such a small amount, I'll end up paying much more than 1.5 extra. So I simply move on, and do my best not to let the little things annoy me. Now I will argue as much as I can without letting myself get angry, and will simply tell taxis to move on if they don't like the price I negotiate before getting in. If I can't be bothered to argue, I'll take my chances and see how well they drive, and how much they decide to charge. If a big problem comes up after that, well, I haven't had to deal with that yet. I also call taxis who I like when I need to get around in Alex when I don't want to put up with the taxi process.
> 
> If a taxi driver is trying to charge you more because you are foreign, you shouldn't put up with it. I'm not saying to start fights with them, but if you know how much you should pay for the trip, give them that much + the tip if you want, and just walk out, and try to be polite. The ideal would be to work only with verified taxis.
> 
> I've even seen Egyptians get out and then pay, and they would probably be more lenient with foreigners that do that. Be careful to note though, sitting in traffic means you pay extra. I think its 0.25-0.5 LE for each minute of being in the taxi, based on what I saw sitting in a metered taxi. Since I think DeadGuy has been here much longer than I have, he might have better advice about this. I'm not trying to tell people what to do, I'm still learning myself, I guess I am just saying try to take it as a learning experience rather than let it get to you. So far I am doing that and having a much better time.
> 
> I'm certainly not blaming the victim, I didn't mean to give that impression. What I'm saying is, in terms of rip-off situations, you have to accept some of the blame if you don't try to prevent them from occurring in the future. I have learned how to avoid it for the most part and am much happier here as a result. One day I hope it won't be necessary to learn this kind of thing to have a good time here, and in other places.
> 
> Egypt is basically a place with little regulation and lots of flexibility. The people here depend on each other and basic human decency a lot more than they would in other places, where you can simply bring down a legal hammer on deviants. Education is the only way to 'nip this problem in the bud'.
> 
> Off to Cairo now, hoping to have/make it a pleasant experience


With regard to the taxis...if you know the correct price then don't even enter into a negotiation with the taxi driver,just get in tell him where you want to go and try to make sure you have the right money...when you arrive just get out and then hand the money over and walk away immediately...he will probably start shouting after you but just ignore it.About trying not to let it get to you....believe me if you stay there for any length of time it will get to you and all long term ex-pats seem to go through the "hate everything about egypt" phase....and my advice when you get to that stage is go have a break back in your own country and get back to normality for awhile..then you are ready to start all over again when you come back to egypt.


----------



## MaidenScotland

Qsw said:


> I wish we could lock up all the sexual predators, and that Egyptian society as a whole would become much more vocal about how their activities are wrong, but for now it is just a problem that has to be dealt with, sadly. There are simply too many frustrated men (for a variety of reasons) and not enough of a legal/societal deterrent to discourage them from their disgusting behavior. Not that this justifies their behavior, it is despicable and cannot be justified.
> 
> The least the government can do now is announce extremely harsh laws against these crimes, and make sure that criminals know they will be enforced. The solutions will have to come from the government I think, being strongly pressured by organizations supported by the decent majority. Since this is something I believe liberals and Islamists both have a similar opinion on, its possible that it could happen. But even then, we'll need an effective, visible police force with a fast response time.
> 
> I also wish the taxis would stop ripping off people. Because there is minimal regulation of them here though, the odds of that are low. New regulations can be introduced, I hope, so that when you get ripped off there is some method to report it, and then punished accordingly. Eventually this could force them to clean up their act. I don't think the laws or regulations are in place yet to force that kind of scenario. So the only way to protect yourself is to basically prevent the rip-offs from occurring as best you can, and then moving on after they happen.
> 
> I can certainly see how it is frustrating to have to deal with these types of situations more regularly than you would elsewhere. At the end of the day you have to look for your peace of mind. I can certainly justify to myself paying extra for something when I think the person asking for the money needs it, and is not an indecent person. Others have different views.
> 
> Once, I believed a taxi driver was charging me more than they should have, by 1.50 LE. I let that irritate me. I realized, if I start to get this annoyed about such a small amount, I'll end up paying much more than 1.5 extra. So I simply move on, and do my best not to let the little things annoy me. Now I will argue as much as I can without letting myself get angry, and will simply tell taxis to move on if they don't like the price I negotiate before getting in. If I can't be bothered to argue, I'll take my chances and see how well they drive, and how much they decide to charge. If a big problem comes up after that, well, I haven't had to deal with that yet. I also call taxis who I like when I need to get around in Alex when I don't want to put up with the taxi process.
> 
> If a taxi driver is trying to charge you more because you are foreign, you shouldn't put up with it. I'm not saying to start fights with them, but if you know how much you should pay for the trip, give them that much + the tip if you want, and just walk out, and try to be polite. The ideal would be to work only with verified taxis.
> 
> I've even seen Egyptians get out and then pay, and they would probably be more lenient with foreigners that do that. Be careful to note though, sitting in traffic means you pay extra. I think its 0.25-0.5 LE for each minute of being in the taxi, based on what I saw sitting in a metered taxi. Since I think DeadGuy has been here much longer than I have, he might have better advice about this. I'm not trying to tell people what to do, I'm still learning myself, I guess I am just saying try to take it as a learning experience rather than let it get to you. So far I am doing that and having a much better time.
> 
> I'm certainly not blaming the victim, I didn't mean to give that impression. What I'm saying is, in terms of rip-off situations, you have to accept some of the blame if you don't try to prevent them from occurring in the future. I have learned how to avoid it for the most part and am much happier here as a result. One day I hope it won't be necessary to learn this kind of thing to have a good time here, and in other places.
> 
> Egypt is basically a place with little regulation and lots of flexibility. The people here depend on each other and basic human decency a lot more than they would in other places, where you can simply bring down a legal hammer on deviants. Education is the only way to 'nip this problem in the bud'.
> 
> Off to Cairo now, hoping to have/make it a pleasant experience



Thank you but why you are telling me how to use a taxi is a mystery.. you where the one that was done not me.. I know how to use the taxis here.. i am an expert

Sorry I don't believe the majority of sexual harassment is down to frustration.. Do you honestly believe it is just young unmarried men who whisper sweet nothings in your ears?
The first thing that needs to be change in this country is....that women are not to blame when they are assaulted, the police and a large amount of families blame the female...
Policewomen are needed as are sexual assault victim suites.


Nip this problem in the bud!!! This flower is in full bloom.



I understand you defending your country but I cannot live life as an Egyptian no more than you can live my life as a foreign single blonde female in this country..... in all honesty you have no idea what it is like for some of us.


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## MaidenScotland

DeadGuy said:


> Nope! Right handed I swear! :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Think I need to put THAT post of mine again, with a lil bigger font size
> 
> 
> 
> And now I think what's said about how similar Egyptians and Italians are is true :lol:





Awww we love you and miss you when you are not around


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## Eco-Mariner

Nature does not excuse incompetence.
I come back to Egypt for the Red Sea locations where I have businesses.... Not to see Egyptians who innevitably think I'm a target.

Regarding taxis, hurghadapat is very correct. You know the fare already so get in, say where you wish to go..... DO NOT ASK HOW MUCH !!!! That will only allow debate and frustration when it flares into an argument..... Then walk away after paying your correct fee when you exit the door.


Eco-Mariner.


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## CatMandoo

MaidenScotland said:


> Policewomen are needed as are sexual assault suites.


My coffee is on my monitor now....


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## MaidenScotland

CatMandoo said:


> My coffee is on my monitor now....




Yes I should have worded that better

sexual assault victim suites,


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## CatMandoo

MaidenScotland said:


> Yes I should have worded that better
> 
> sexual assault victim suites,


I have hotels on my mind these days, and when I read that, was thinking Suites as in hotels, hence the need for a monitor clean up


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## CatMandoo

Maybe some of you can relate to this, others not. It's just my own personal take on living in Egypt.

I have been here many years, and have gone through most of what everyone complains about, and maybe even more. 

I had complaints about my own country when living there, on a lesser scale, yes, but none the less, life is hardly rosy these days, no matter where you reside.

What I have found though, is that if you surround yourself with friends/aquaintances that complain none stop, it really does rub off on you, and starts to depress you. 

I have befriended several expats in my years here, who fit this description. Everyday, it was one complaint after another. You try to help them, offer solutions, give sympathy, but it never stops.

I even knew one lady that came here, was unhappy, returned back to her home country, was unhappy, came back here for second time, unhappy again, went back home AGAIN, same story, and AGAIN back here. Some people are just not happy where ever they are. It's like some inbred trait. 

For me, I have little tolerance for this anymore. I live in Egypt, it's now my home, and I make the best of what is put on my plate, whether it be a peanut butter sandwich or Steak.

Negativity breeds negativity.


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## MaidenScotland

I don't hate Egypt... I survive here due to having my wits about me but I would love to thrive..


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## CatMandoo

MaidenScotland said:


> I don't hate Egypt... I survive here due to having my wits about me but I would love to thrive..


I just edited my post, and used word unhappy, that is more accurate.


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## Qsw

MaidenScotland said:


> Thank you but why you are telling me how to use a taxi is a mystery.. you where the one that was done not me.. I know how to use the taxis here.. i am an expert
> 
> Sorry I don't believe the majority of sexual harassment is down to frustration.. Do you honestly believe it is just young unmarried men who whisper sweet nothings in your ears?
> The first thing that needs to be change in this country is....that women are not to blame when they are assaulted, the police and a large amount of families blame the female...
> Policewomen are needed as are sexual assault victim suites.
> 
> 
> Nip this problem in the bud!!! This flower is in full bloom.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand you defending your country but I cannot live life as an Egyptian no more than you can live my life as a foreign single blonde female in this country..... in all honesty you have no idea what it is like for some of us.


Sorry, I didn't mean to give off the impression that I know what it's like. I just am trying to say, I believe most Egyptians are disgusted by this behavior and want it to stop.

I hope one day it's a long gone problem, not for Egypt's sake, but for the sake of you who have to go through it.


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## MaidenScotland

Qsw said:


> Sorry, I didn't mean to give off the impression that I know what it's like. I just am trying to say, I believe most Egyptians are disgusted by this behavior and want it to stop.
> 
> I hope one day it's a long gone problem, not for Egypt's sake, but for the sake of you who have to go through it.




I hope it changes for the sake of Egypt.. the good Egyptian people don't deserve this.


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## ArabianNights

Qsw said:


> Sorry, I didn't mean to give off the impression that I know what it's like. I just am trying to say, I believe most Egyptians are disgusted by this behavior and want it to stop.
> 
> I hope one day it's a long gone problem, not for Egypt's sake, but for the sake of you who have to go through it.


I have asked this question many many many times. I yet do not have a definite answer. Where can I meet these normal Egyptian people?


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## expatagogo

ArabianNights said:


> I have asked this question many many many times. I yet do not have a definite answer. Where can I meet these normal Egyptian people?


Let me introduce you to my friends - normal, Egyptian, and most certainly decent people.

Really, they're out there, and I'd even venture to say the majority.


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## CatMandoo

ArabianNights said:


> I have asked this question many many many times. I yet do not have a definite answer. Where can I meet these normal Egyptian people?


Over a month ago, I gave you the name of a local Yahoo Group in Alex. A mixed group (Expats and Egyptians) of extremely nice ladies, most in your age group and who all live in Alex. 

You said you sent a request to join the group, but I have yet to see one single post from you there, not even a small introduction or request to meet up for a coffee.

I know the Group Moderator, so please don't tell me you never received authorization.


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## Qsw

MaidenScotland said:


> I hope it changes for the sake of Egypt.. the good Egyptian people don't deserve this.


Thanks, its good to see how you and others are trying not to let this affect your perception of Egyptians as a whole. For everybody's sake, hopefully the problem will go away as soon as possible.


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## ArabianNights

CatMandoo said:


> Over a month ago, I gave you the name of a local Yahoo Group in Alex. A mixed group (Expats and Egyptians) of extremely nice ladies, most in your age group and who all live in Alex.
> 
> You said you sent a request to join the group, but I have yet to see one single post from you there, not even a small introduction or request to meet up for a coffee.
> 
> I know the Group Moderator, so please don't tell me you never received authorization.


I emailed her and she responded with some questions. I answered them (from Luxor) and I never heard back. I also now one girl in my class, whose mother apparently is part of this group. I was told that she must be busy,


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## Qsw

MaidenScotland said:


> Thank you but why you are telling me how to use a taxi is a mystery.. you where the one that was done not me.. I know how to use the taxis here.. i am an expert


I wasn't directing that at you, only those who would be reading and were inexperienced like I was, in dealing with taxis here. I'm sure you could help me learn as well, as I have from the others who've added in their advice 

ArabianNights, I would offer to help, but I know how that would look on this forum. I think CatMandoo's suggestion would be a good place to start.

And, I just wanted to say, I once again feel terrible that this problem is so prevalent. Walking around with my female cousins, its extremely depressing that they can't walk on these streets alone, and that I can't simply enjoy a normal walk on the street with them, instead being constantly on the lookout for possible harassers. Almost always my fears are unfounded (no big incidents so far when I am with them), but I can see how horrible it can be for single women here, without the added layer of protection.


----------



## CatMandoo

Qsw said:


> And, I just wanted to say, I once again feel terrible that this problem is so prevalent. Walking around with my female cousins, its extremely depressing that they can't walk on these streets alone, and that I can't simply enjoy a normal walk on the street with them, instead being constantly on the lookout for possible harassers. Almost always my fears are unfounded (no big incidents so far when I am with them), but I can see how horrible it can be for single women here, without the added layer of protection.


As you have pointed out Qsw, and I will back that up with complaints I hear from my relatives who live here, this problem is not limited to foreign women. Color of hair, eyes, clothing worn etc. has little to do with it at all. What any foreign woman living here has gone through, most (applied liberally) Egyptian women have experienced equally if not worse.


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## MaidenScotland

Of course Egyptian women suffer no on has ever denied it but that doesn't make what happens to us any less troublesome yet until very very recently even on this forum people were denying it is a problem for Egyptians and foreigners. Hopefully now that is is accepted that it does happen something will be done about it.. for all womens safety and self respect


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## Eco-Mariner

A good poke in the eyes with your key works wonders.


Eco-Mariner.


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## MaidenScotland

Eco-Mariner said:


> A good poke in the eyes with your key works wonders.
> 
> 
> Eco-Mariner.




but I don't want them that close!!


----------

