# Any hope for an American to find a job?



## ulrichleland9

Hello. We are currently stuck in Albania. It is expensive and dangerous here. We need to go somewhere we can survive. Jobs that pay. Housing for kids. It seems every nation will take in Turks, Africans, Asians. But Americans need $500,000. Well, where I live, jobs pay $50 a month. So we could never pay half a million. We considered refugee status. But they split families up. So that will not work. Any suggestions? It's been a long road and we are desperate. Thank you.


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## *Sunshine*

ulrichleland9 said:


> It seems every nation will take in Turks, Africans, Asians.


That is not true. Many smugglers lie to desperate people, however, most countries in Western Europe do not have sufficient accommodation to house everyone.



ulrichleland9 said:


> We considered refugee status.


You would need to demonstrate that you would face persecution from the American government to be accepted as a refugee.

What formal educational/professional qualifications do you have? Work experience? Language skills?


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## Harry Moles

Germany is full of Americans. You don't need $500,000 to come here. With a US passport you enter the country as a tourist, then you have 90 days to find an apartment and persuade the authorities that you deserve a residence permit on the basis of a job offer that cannot be filled by an EU national. If they accept your application, you stay. If they reject your application, you leave.

If you have a university degree, skills that are in demand, enough money to get through the first months, and an understanding of how the system works, it's quite possible to move here, even without speaking German. Otherwise it will be difficult. Don't expect charity for US citizens as they are busy enough looking after refugees from the Ukraine.


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## ulrichleland9

*Sunshine* said:


> That is not true. Many smugglers lie to desperate people, however, most countries in Western Europe do not have sufficient accommodation to house everyone.
> 
> 
> You would need to demonstrate that you would face persecution from the American government to be accepted as a refugee.
> 
> What formal educational/professional qualifications do you have? Work experience? Language skills?


Yeah. I have looked into it. Can't seem to find anything. Except maybe a year of temporary stay before denial. The worst is, I don't want to separated from my family at a refugee camp. Or have our kids taken away. 

I am fluent in English. Some obscure Asian languages. Though not really well enough to do it professionally. I have worked in factories, construction, food service, automotive, street cleaning, driver, just about everything you can think of really. But no, I don't have 20 years in rocket science or brain surgery. Growing up white has left me severely disadvantaged. My "privilege" has prevented me from even receiving a high school diploma.


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## ulrichleland9

Harry Moles said:


> Germany is full of Americans. You don't need $500,000 to come here. With a US passport you enter the country as a tourist, then you have 90 days to find an apartment and persuade the authorities that you deserve a residence permit on the basis of a job offer that cannot be filled by an EU national. If they accept your application, you stay. If they reject your application, you leave.
> 
> If you have a university degree, skills that are in demand, enough money to get through the first months, and an understanding of how the system works, it's quite possible to move here, even without speaking German. Otherwise it will be difficult. Don't expect charity for US citizens as they are busy enough looking after refugees from the Ukraine.


Sounds hopeful for strict Germany. Nein. Ich kann nicht gut Deutsch sprechen. Nur klein. I don't even have a high school diploma, since I am white  But I am fluent in English. And I can do construction and factory work. I understand that many Turks do that still in Germany?


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## Harry Moles

Given your background and situation, you will almost certainly not be allowed to stay in Germany past 90 days. You might be able to eke out a marginal existence living here illegally, working manual labour or service industry jobs for cash, but sooner or later you'd be caught and thrown out.


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## *Sunshine*

ulrichleland9 said:


> Growing up white has left me severely disadvantaged. My "privilege" has prevented me from even receiving a high school diploma.


Without even a high school diploma, you don't have any chance of obtaining permits for you and your family in Germany.

If you want to change your situation, you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself, take responsibility for your actions, and be prepared to work on finding a solution. Claiming that being white prevented you from finishing high school sounds like a very lame excuse.


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## Harry Moles

Yes, the racist white victimhood narrative is extremely tiresome. Particularly given that Americans are one of a small group of "privileged" non-EU/EEA nationalities allowed to enter Germany without a visa then make their application for a residence permit within 90 days of arrival.


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## ulrichleland9

Harry Moles said:


> Yes, the racist white victimhood narrative is extremely tiresome. Particularly given that Americans are one of a small group of "privileged" non-EU/EEA nationalities allowed to enter Germany without a visa then make their application for a residence permit within 90 days of arrival.


Wait. Maybe something was lost in translation. Do you hate white people and Americans?

You call being denied jobs, denied school, denied medical care, denied free movement, denied housing, a "privilege"? My kids do not deserve a normal life, because of the colour of their skin? 

Please correct me if I misunderstood you?


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## ulrichleland9

*Sunshine* said:


> Without even a high school diploma, you don't have any chance of obtaining permits for you and your family in Germany.
> 
> If you want to change your situation, you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself, take responsibility for your actions, and be prepared to work on finding a solution. Claiming that being white prevented you from finishing high school sounds like a very lame excuse.


How is that a lame excuse? Why are you victim blaming? I didn't realise I was on some racist forum...

How am I feeling sorry for myself? How am I not being responsible? OK, maybe I am stupid. But how do I support 12 people with 30 Euros a month, when basic rents begin at 500 Euros a month? Taxes alone are 500 a month. How do I pay that with 30 Euros a month? 

Sorry I am so stupid. I am just a worthless white guy. But for the sake of my children, maybe instead of blaming me for my skin colour, you could give me just a bit of your wisdom please?


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## *Sunshine*

ulrichleland9 said:


> How is that a lame excuse? Why are you victim blaming? I didn't realise I was on some racist forum...


If you had just said that you didn't finish high school, I would have taken your statement at face value and not said anything else on the matter. 

However, claiming that being white "prevented" you from finishing high school is not a statement I'm willing to let stand if I'm going to continue this conversation.


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## *Sunshine*

ulrichleland9 said:


> But for the sake of my children, maybe instead of blaming me for my skin colour, you could give me just a bit of your wisdom please?


1. Your children need identity documents. Moving anywhere without identity documents will be next to impossible. 

Do they have birth certificates? 

2. You will have difficulty obtaining a work permit in Western Europe without formal qualifications. 

3. Your children can obtain visas for the US and then American citizenship, if you can scrape the funds together.


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## Harry Moles

*Sunshine* said:


> 3. Your children can obtain visas for the US and then American citizenship, if you can scrape the funds together.


Transmission of US citizenship to children born abroad is not always possible, particularly if neither parent has lived in the US (link to all the various rules). In certain cases, depending on the country of birth and the parents' citizenships, children can be born stateless. A US citizen parent could ultimately bring such children back to the US and then obtain citizenship for them, but doing so would require financial resources that the OP appears to lack.


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## ulrichleland9

*Sunshine* said:


> If you had just said that you didn't finish high school, I would have taken your statement at face value and not said anything else on the matter.
> 
> However, claiming that being white "prevented" you from finishing high school is not a statement I'm willing to let stand if I'm going to continue this conversation.


Why is it a lame excuse though? How am I lame for being white? Well you don't like white people, go somewhere else. Man this forum is racist.


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## ulrichleland9

*Sunshine* said:


> 1. Your children need identity documents. Moving anywhere without identity documents will be next to impossible.
> 
> Do they have birth certificates?
> 
> 2. You will have difficulty obtaining a work permit in Western Europe without formal qualifications.
> 
> 3. Your children can obtain visas for the US and then American citizenship, if you can scrape the funds together.


1. Not true. We moved to Albania. And a few places before here. Kids move around all the time without documents. How can adults do it, but not kids? A lot of nations don't even care about kids. No birth certificates. 
2. Why do I need formal qualifications? Is this another racist thing against whites?
3. How do they get visas, travel documents, and plane tickets to America though? Pretty sure that would be WAY harder than going to Switzerland or Germany. They would need visa sponsors, a home, and all sorts of things. I don't really think anyone is keen on more global travel. We have already come pretty far. I think Europe is where we will stay.


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## ulrichleland9

Harry Moles said:


> Transmission of US citizenship to children born abroad is not always possible, particularly if neither parent has lived in the US (link to all the various rules). In certain cases, depending on the country of birth and the parents' citizenships, children can be born stateless. A US citizen parent could ultimately bring such children back to the US and then obtain citizenship for them, but doing so would require financial resources that the OP appears to lack.


Yeah. We could not afford plane tickets. The US also will not let you board a plane without a travel document. They want a financial sponsor, bank accounts, house, and all sorts of things. We have of course looked into it. Seems a lot harder than just staying in Europe. We are tired. We don't want to travel much more.


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## *Sunshine*

ulrichleland9 said:


> 2. Why do I need formal qualifications? Is this another racist thing against whites?


I don't think you understand what racism actually means. 

The requirements regarding qualifications apply to work visas for Third Country Nationals (TCN) and it has nothing to do with race, but rather citizenship. 

Furthermore, Americans enjoy certain privileges in Germany over African and Asian citizens. However, you can't get much done in Germany without the proper paperwork and if your children don't have passports you should avoid Germany. 



ulrichleland9 said:


> 3. How do they get visas, travel documents, and plane tickets to America though? Pretty sure that would be WAY harder than going to Switzerland or Germany. They would need visa sponsors, a home, and all sorts of things. I don't really think anyone is keen on more global travel. We have already come pretty far. I think Europe is where we will stay.


Your children could qualify for IR2 visas for the US as well as citizenship once you get there.

If you file your US taxes you can use the Corona relief cheques to finance part of the costs.

Sure, you could try coming to Germany without any money and any prospects, however, doing that would really screw your kids over. There are many young people in Germany that were totally screwed over by their irresponsible parents who never bothered acquiring the proper papers for them and now are struggling to obtain the necessary paperwork to even get a license to drive.


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## ulrichleland9

*Sunshine* said:


> I don't think you understand what racism actually means.
> 
> The requirements regarding qualifications apply to work visas for Third Country Nationals (TCN) and it has nothing to do with race, but rather citizenship.
> 
> Furthermore, Americans enjoy certain privileges in Germany over African and Asian citizens. However, you can't get much done in Germany without the proper paperwork and if your children don't have passports you should avoid Germany.
> 
> 
> Your children could qualify for IR2 visas for the US as well as citizenship once you get there.
> 
> If you file your US taxes you can use the Corona relief cheques to finance part of the costs.
> 
> Sure, you could try coming to Germany without any money and any prospects, however, doing that would really screw your kids over. There are many young people in Germany that were totally screwed over by their irresponsible parents who never bothered acquiring the proper papers for them and now are struggling to obtain the necessary paperwork to even get a license to drive.


So Germany is worse than Albania? Do monthly wages there pay less than 30 Euros a month?

I don't file US taxes. I don't even have an SSN or TIN.

We don't qualify for the IR2. Besides, it costs $15,000. Not counting $15,000 in plane tickets. If we had that kind of money, we would be rich! We would not be worried about where to go!

I very much know what racism is. More than anyone!


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## *Sunshine*

ulrichleland9 said:


> So Germany is worse than Albania? Do monthly wages there pay less than 30 Euros a month?


Germany is worse than Albania *FOR YOUR FAMILY* because you don't have the skills need to get a work permit. Furthermore, without papers your children would have no prospects and huge problems in Germany (although the point is moot because you wouldn't qualify for a work permit).


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## ulrichleland9

*Sunshine* said:


> Germany is worse than Albania *FOR YOUR FAMILY* because you don't have the skills need to get a work permit. Furthermore, without papers your children would have no prospects and huge problems in Germany (although the point is moot because you wouldn't qualify for a work permit).


I don't need a work permit. And if Germany is such a horrible country compared to Albania, why are there so many Albanians in Germany?


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## ALKB

ulrichleland9 said:


> Hello. We are currently stuck in Albania. It is expensive and dangerous here. We need to go somewhere we can survive. Jobs that pay. Housing for kids. It seems every nation will take in Turks, Africans, Asians. But Americans need $500,000. Well, where I live, jobs pay $50 a month. So we could never pay half a million. We considered refugee status. But they split families up. So that will not work. Any suggestions? It's been a long road and we are desperate. Thank you.


Since your information is spread out over several threads in several different country forums, please let me know whether I understand your situation correctly:

-Your US parents moved to an unnamed Asian country as missionaries/members of a cult.

You were born in that unnamed country but received US citizenship due to your parents having been born in the USA and living there for a specific number of years before moving abroad.
You were denied education and services by the Asian country of your birth, presumably because your parents failed to obtain visas/residence documents for themselves and in extension their children, rather than merely due to the colour of your skin.
You grew up and (legally/offically?) married another member of said cult in a similar situation as your own.
Now you have ten children together and are trying to find a place to live after leaving the cult?
You somehow made it all the way to Albania.
(Why could you not get birth certificates for your children? Was it due to the lack of legal residence of yourself and their mother in the country they were born?)

If the above is correct, you and your wife are the victim of an often intentional strategy of cults to make it nigh impossible for their followers to leave, because they do not fulfil even the most basic of requirements for life in the regular world.

Your situation is well outside the scope of an internet forum.

I would recommend that, whomever you talk to, in whichever country you decide to try and get residency, be as structured as possible and as complete with your facts as possible. I`d not go on too much about the anti-white racism and really, really concentrate on the legal barriers you faced. (I could not get X because my parents failed to do Y/were living illegally in the country.)
I used to live in a subcontinental country for a while and have experienced the weird mix of getting job offers I was not qualified for, if they could just put my picture on their web site, drawing crowds and being stared at, being grabbed, shaken and screamed into my face, having vicious rumours spread about me having been a pole dancer, being charged 100 times as much as was the actual price, and so on. 
I can see how a whole life like this would damage you - but remember, this is not something any European official is likely to have experienced. In their experience, Americans come from America, have gone through schooling there, have a network of friends and family that could help. The idea that parents are unable to transfer their citizenship to their children due to being born abroad is also a very foreign one to Europeans and will need explaining including quoting the relevant parts of US citizenship law.

All in all, the only thing I can think of is that maybe an NGO like the European Network on Statelessness might be able to help.

Without formal qualifications you will struggle anywhere in Europe. Living expenses for a family of 12 are sky high and adequate accommodation will be very hard to come by.

Also, just for the record, the vast majority of people in Asia and Africa could not even dream of qualifying for a visa to any European country.


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## Harry Moles

You're right, of course. We're just making **** up. You don't need a work permit. Pack up the van and head for Germany. You'll be welcomed with open arms.


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## ALKB

ulrichleland9 said:


> I don't need a work permit. And if Germany is such a horrible country compared to Albania, why are there so many Albanians in Germany?


It´s not a horrible country at all.

It´s a document-happy country focused on structure, permits, certificates, etc. 

Many Albanians are in Germany illegally. Many are in Germany legally because they have needed skills and (often with additional training only) managed to get work permits. There is a huge drive for Albanian nurses to come to Germany right now, for example.

How old are your children?


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## *Sunshine*

ALKB said:


> Many Albanians are in Germany illegally.


Don't forget about all the Albanians who received work permits under the _Westbalkan-Regelung _(for which the TS wouldn't qualify either).


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## ALKB

*Sunshine* said:


> Don't forget about all the Albanians who received work permits under the _Westbalkan-Regelung _(for which the TS wouldn't qualify either).


Indeed, thank you for that.

I just meant to point out that it´s actually not all that easy for Albanians to live and work in the EU (or many other countries in the world) legally.


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## Bevdeforges

OK, I think we've exhausted this "discussion." Good luck in your further endeavors.


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