# Car Title Washing



## surfrider (Oct 4, 2011)

Just thought that I would drop in and report something that is going on in Puerto Vallarta. I had purchased a car from a used car lot in Puerto Vallarta. It is run by two brothers and on a small lot but the big Puerto Vallarta sign coming from Bucerias into P.V.

Now what happened was I bought a car and paid cash and got a title and insurance for the truck. These two guys seemed so nice and there are a lot of gringos what go there - also feeling that these two guys are their friends as I DID.

To make a very strange and long story short. Bottom line is I brought back that truck to the states and discovered a bunch of compartments under the bed of the truck. OH lovely.. Then I found out that the car that I owned had some ¨cleaver actions ¨taken from these two. 

either physically alter the first title (i.e., good old fashioned forgery), use stolen blank titles to forge a non-branded title (more forgery) or simply move the car to another state that does not use the same branding language.

Next, the cons, often using false identities, register the car in the second state. The new registry either doesn't know about the problem as reported in the first state, or it literally can't use the same branding language (because of differing state regulations) and so leaves it off the new title.

Voila! A car that was clearly branded as damaged goods in one state is taint-free in another. Basically - I am out 10,000.00 cause there is not much you can do These two guys are constantly in and out of the states with these cars. Be very careful where you buy things. 

I am in the states now but I still have a house in Bucerias that I think I will rent out that house for a while while I am fixing it up to move back into.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

But you have title and insurance and the truck ?? Not exactly out 10k


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## surfrider (Oct 4, 2011)

sparks said:


> But you have title and insurance and the truck ?? Not exactly out 10k


NOOOO I do not have title and insurance and yes I do have the truck but the truck does not pass emissions. The work on that is being done, but i have to then see if DMV will register this truck and in that registration I will find out what kind of title I have - if they accept the truck. Right now I have an open title but the open title has a question on it about what kind of title it is. 
I do have the physical truck, with a bunch of drug compartment, a truck that has been though accidents, and whatever else occurred to that thing. but hay with those hidden compartments for drugs in the bed of the truck - if I find the right buyer that could be a selling point.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

Now, I don´t get this and perhaps I am just an ignorant hillbilly but I have purchased two new cars in Guadalajara from reputable dealers, have no concerns about true title being in our names and I would never buy a used car on the street or from some shade tree mechanic here - *EVER*. What I don´t get is that I´ve never heard of the product of title insurance for a car - new or used - and I was a banker for 40 years in San Francisco so what the hell is this title insurance on a car business?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Hound Dog said:


> Now, I don´t get this and perhaps I am just an ignorant hillbilly but I have purchased two new cars in Guadalajara from reputable dealers, have no concerns about true title being in our names and I would never buy a used car on the street or from some shade tree mechanic here - *EVER*. What I don´t get is that I´ve never heard of the product of title insurance for a car - new or used - and I was a banker for 40 years in San Francisco so what the hell is this title insurance on a car business?


I didn't see anyone mention --title insurance-- for cars. I saw a discussion of --title-- and --insurance--.


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

What was the OP doing buying a US titled vehicle in Mexico? Red flag #1.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

And that tale of woe has one huge moral: Buy a used card in Mexico at your peril.

And another: Anyone ever hear of an UNPLEASANT con artist?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

RVGRINGO said:


> What was the OP doing buying a US titled vehicle in Mexico? Red flag #1.


I missed that. Is that what was going on? The car was purchased in Puerto Vallarta but supposedly had a US title?


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


TundraGreen said:



I didn't see anyone mention --title insurance-- for cars. I saw a discussion of --title-- and --insurance--.

Click to expand...

_OK, TG, you´re right and I misread the original post but I would warn anyone buying a used car on the street or from some two-bit used car lot in Mexico to remember that if you do not have clean title in Mexico - a concept that is not that simple - your insurance company may not honor your policy and, if for any reason the cops stop you for any reason, you could very well end up in the hoosegow for an indefinite period of time for having driven and presumed to own a stolen car. This is a serious offense in Mexico. Do not cross the line to save a few pesos. That is a poor investment.if there ever was one.


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## Playaboy (Apr 11, 2014)

The way I read the op's post is that he/she bought a Mexican titled car in PV. 

Now you are having trouble registering it in the USA? Am I correct?


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

He, the OP, repeatedly referred to “title“ and to “branded as damaged goods“ (Salvage title?), leading me to believe that he was given a US title and not a factura and the various other Mexican documents to prove chain of ownership. Nor does it seem that he checked the vehicle online to determine its legality.
That was reinforced by his taking the truck to the USA and attempting to register it there, which cannot be done with Mexican registration documents; a US title from some US state would be required and I thing that is pretty much empirical knowledge.
I think “his friends“ saw him coming and that he is now warning the rest of us to be careful, since he now recognizes that fact.


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## surfrider (Oct 4, 2011)

ok here is the details of the title owner 1 ) 06/2006 Puerto Rico title or registration issued title number 67877110. Owner 2 ) 02/02/2012 Puerto Rico same title number title or registration issued new owner reported. owner 3 03/27/2012 Puerto Rico Motor Vehicle department same title number.. new owner reported title or registration issued. _This is when I think that the drug compartments were put into the truck. _ now 06/29/2012 US Customs reports that the vehicle exported from Puerto Rico and imported to the US: Here is where the title washing happened..10/27/2014 Arizona motor vehicle department nogales az new owner reported junk title certificated issued dismantled title issued and in 12/04/2014 Arizona motor vehicle department in nogales issued another title number and registered the vehicle stating it recovered after theft... I come into the picture and see that there is clear US title and purchase the car. This was not a mexican title ...also the dealership is not a fly by night stand. A lot of expats in the area buy their cars there. Hugo runs the car rental but I also found out that he has several other names....as well as addresses 
These two brothers are pros and they know how to do this and have been doing it for years. I am telling this story to let you all know that this is a very serious thing and according to police is escalating very fast...and not just in Mexico but very much so in the states using Nogales as a base for the wash. I personally have been an international negotiator for real estate with the largest international relocation company around, I am not new to rodeos or to types of fraud. Yet I did not see this one coming...and without carfax or some other form of tracking title I could not have known.


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## LMtortugas (Aug 23, 2013)

BOTTOM LINE - When purchasing an identified U.S. used vehicle in Mexico serious caution should be exercised and ALL related transaction documents closely scrutinized. It is certainly difficult, probably beyond the initiative and abilities of most auto thieves, to forge a branded U.S. title into a usable clean one. 

Without fail, any potential buyer should first purchase a vehicle history from either CARFAX or AUTOCHECK These reports are highly reliable and in many cases are even warranted for accuracy. Only about $30. Further, I would be very hesitant to purchase blindly a U.S. vehicle, with U.S. title, in Mexico that has not recently been certified a US CBP export. Official export greatly facilitates reentry of vehicle back into the U.S., complies with applicable regulations of both the U.S. & Mexico, and the title & VIN are independently audited. Any seller unable/unwilling to put forward these inexpensive & accessible documents should be avoided.


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## surfrider (Oct 4, 2011)

Very true and good advice.


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## Playaboy (Apr 11, 2014)

Wow, that is a hell of a story. Sorry to hear it happened. 

This was a Mexican car dealer selling a USA titled cars? Big red flag!!! They can go to jail just for selling US titled cars.

I have bought over a dozen US titled cars in the last year of so but not one from a Mexican car dealer. They have always been from private parties needing to get their cars out of Mexico. 

Cars that have been in Mexico for years have a gap in their history with nothing reported to Carfax. It makes them harder to sell when I take them NOB. 

Most people don't export their cars thru CBP unless they are legally importing the cars into Mexico.


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