# House acquisition options



## wanghaozhi (Nov 9, 2017)

When my wife and I have rented and are thenready to own a home in the Lake Chapala area, I see these options:
1) buy a house and move in
2) buy a house, remodel it to some extent, then move in
3) buy a house, raze it to the ground, build a new home, then move in
4) buy a lot, build a house, then move in

Each one has advantages and disadvantages, of course. If we were going to do this in Seattle, I can imagine it based on our remodeling our 62-year-old house here in Seattle and the condo we remodeled in Taipei.

Remodeling in Seattle was different because our house is made with wood framing, so it was rather easy (not inexpensive) to add electrical wiring and receptacles. Changing the pipes to PEX was also rather easy (not inexpensive) because we have a crawl space. Our Taipei condo was made of concrete and steel beams, so remodeling was much more difficult (but not as expensive because of lower wages, similar to those in Mexico.)

OK, that's the background. Now for the questions: :confused2:
1) Are there unexpected difficulties (or easier things) in considering each of my 4 options above that I wouldn't know about because this will be in Mexico and this will be at Lake Chapala?
2) In general, do older houses, such as those in La Floresta, need extensive remodeling to upgrade the systems (wiring, water pipes, LPG pipes)?
3) Is there any general guidance for 'gotchas' in considering each of the 4 options?
4) Is remodeling work (architectural drawings, the actual construction and materials) usually priced in MXN?


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

I'll go with 5.) Buy a house, move in, make modifications.

We are the third owner's of our 20 year old house. The first owner built it, the second owner remodeled it : new kitchen, new windows and doors. We have improved it : PV system, a much larger cistern, replaced all the septic plumbing, tankless water heaters, RO system etc.

The one thing you can not count on are the architectural docs you might receive when you buy an existing house. The plumbing/electrical things were nowhere near reality...


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

We built from scratch so we got what we wanted. There is a lot that is different in Mexican construction as opposed to American, as you mentioned wood frame is easy to modify, brick and mortar is a different thing. I would look really hard at any existing structure as a lot of time you don't realize something that should have been obvious until it is too late.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

We bought a lot in a "privada" and designed and had it built by our Architect. All utilites were right there so no problems with that. If we would have bought our house already built it might have cost roughly 35% more and not been exactly what we wanted in all details. This is 7 years ago.

If I were to consider doing this again and had the energy and motivation I would do it again only with a larger house. If we don´t want a house in an upscale "privada" with 297 lots and 250 houses built I would consider buying a run down house on a great lot and leveling the house and building a new house there. Being in a great "privada" has advanages but costs more and our yearly "tarifa de mantenimiento" went from $12,500 pesos 7 years ago to $22,080 pesos this year. Our "predial" property tax is very close to the same amount. The noise from houses being built near ours is/has been annoying to me for 7 years but there is only 1 lot near us not built on. 5 houses near us are almost ready to move into. It is located away from walkable interesting avenues etc. We drive everywhere, park and then walk around. We are on the side of a hill and have a view of the city.

They built an OXXO outside our main gate 1000 meters from our back door last year. This is both good and bad. Cravings get fufilled now where as before they didn´t and passed away.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

bought a house from the late 60¨s in Ajijic and a ruin in the center in San Cristobal de las Casas.

We remodelled the house from the 60¨s, razed the ruin and build from scratch but we had restriction from the INAH as we live in a historical district so had to build in the same style as the old house.We live on a tiny old street and bringing in the materail and taking out the material during the permitted hours was a pain and expensive as well.

Razing a house and building is obviusly more expensive than building on an empty lot. 
If I had to do it again I would build from scratch on an empty lot.

Og course there is always the possibility of finding the dream house with minimum work to do and at this stage that would be my option..
There are old and newer houses in La Floresta so do not assume they are all old..but many od them are..

Many new houses in the hills.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

I am not a "very stable genius" but I am a perfectionist and I tend to micro manage things. If we were to have built the house we have lived in for the last 4 years we would still be building it. We looked at over a hundred houses over the course of a year. When we walked in the front door of our house the first time we knew it was the one. The husband who owned this house before us traveled the world on business. He left his Columbian wife with a checkbook and she spared no expense in remodeling - like bringing the kitchen appliances in from Europe. We could never have done nearly as good a job as she did.

We also live in a small gated community. I think there are about 60 lots, perhaps 45-50 houses. But if you go by the number of houses that put out trash three times a week only about 5-6 houses are lived in. Probably 10 houses or so are up for sale.

Our annual maintenance is pretty similar at 26,000. That is with the 10% discount for paying in December. It is based on lot size so even the empty lot owners get hit with it. Our Predial was $800 USD, with a 50% INAPAM discount - I put it on our Visa card and got a good exchange rate.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

Surabi has a really good post on this topic in another thread, "Banking options for Oaxaca...".

In fact, it might even have been meant for this thread. 

Personally, what little experience I have had with Mexican workmen completely supports that post, and I myself would want to follow the route of moving in and then having work done a bit at a time when I am there and can watch, to slowly beat the place into shape. 

And "beating the place into shape" is perhaps sadly more literal than figurative; the favorite tool of any Mexican workman seems to be a hammer.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

If you build from scratch, consider the sun on your windows if you are in a hot area or if you will use a fireplace for heat. A fireplace is massive and absorbs heat during the day, this draws cool air toward it in the cool of the night.


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## rmajijic (Jul 15, 2017)

wanghaozhi said:


> When my wife and I have rented and are thenready to own a home in the Lake Chapala area, I see these options:
> 1) buy a house and move in
> 2) buy a house, remodel it to some extent, then move in
> 3) buy a house, raze it to the ground, build a new home, then move in
> ...


This is a difficult question to answer because it is so broad but you are right with your initial 4 options although buying an razing to the ground is really not cost effective and is rarely done. Almost everyone buys and makes some improvements, and then there are a few who purchase a lot and build. (probably more so now as there is less on the market currently) 
As to your other questions:
2) Do older houses in La Floresta need extensive renovating? Varies greatly depending on the house purchased. La Floresta homes like everywhere are all in various stages of renovation and it will depend on how much you pay for the place. The more you pay, the better the house (in general).
4) All work (labor and materials) are in in Pesos.
Sorry, I didn't really understand questions 1 and 3


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Regarding unique aspects of Chapala that might make things easier or more difficult: It will be easier there to find workmen and store employees who speak some English if Spanish is an issue.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Surabi is recommending remodelling while there.. One I have done remodelling while there and learned that it is way better to rent a small place and do the remodelling, it is faster and a whole lot less stressful especially if you are redoing a kitchen..

Also I would never build or remodel and leave... that is crazy anywhere ...People do that here and I have seen how they cut corners if you are not watching and how you can end up with really strange things.. but that is true in any country .. WHen I demolished the house and rebuild it in Chiapas I rented a place for a year and was checking the site every day at the end I let go the architect, and was there all day or just about..
I have done a lot of remodelling because it is a hobby with me and I wold never remodel or build and walk away.. Right now I am redoing the roof and having the house repainted.. and I have the best guys I have seen in the 17 years I have been here so I am happy..and no loud music or carrying on whule working so that is not a Mexican trait just sign of a poor builder or maestro.


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## wanghaozhi (Nov 9, 2017)

*Does this help?*



rmajijic said:


> Sorry, I didn't really understand questions 1 and 3


Hi, rmajijic
Sorry about being unclear. Here are a couple of examples that may give you the flavor of what was in my head (but not written out, a trait my wife says I'm often guilty of). 1) The permits required for Seattle are different from those of other towns nearby; I can look those up online, but I haven't seen any way to look up zoning or codes for Lake Chapala (I suppose it's possible that there may be none, but I can't tell). 2) I can't directly buy land near the coast of Mexico and I can't legally buy ejido land; again, those are things that I found out from reading comments and watching videos online.


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## wanghaozhi (Nov 9, 2017)

citlali said:


> Surabi is recommending remodelling while there.. One I have done remodelling while there and learned that it is way better to rent a small place and do the remodelling, it is faster and a whole lot less stressful especially if you are redoing a kitchen..


I agree with you, citlali. I came to Seattle for 3 months in the winter to remodel our current house, and my daughter and I lived in the house during the remodeling. I got tired of dust, cold showers, and a month of part of the ceiling being open to the attic, etc. I would have preferred to rent a place, but we didn't have the budget for me to do that.

We'd rent while remodeling (if we chose the remodeling route), and we'd be on site every day. 

As lat19n wrote


> The one thing you can not count on are the architectural docs you might receive when you buy an existing house. The plumbing/electrical things were nowhere near reality...".


 We'll have to have a way to verify the work at each step.


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## wanghaozhi (Nov 9, 2017)

*Thanks, Zorro2017*



Zorro2017 said:


> We built from scratch so we got what we wanted.


That was my reason for putting it as one of our 4 options. I've been pleased to see that the respondents to my post have done all 4. 

One question I still have and won't know until we're there is how practical or costly each of the four options are. For example, I don't know if we will be able to find an appropriate empty lot in Ajijic (hence the option of razing and rebuilding).

I wanted to see if I needed to be disabused of naive thinking. For example, in a thread that I started earlier


> Looking for quiet and convenient location at Lake Chapala


, it soon became apparent to me that the view of Lake Chapala that I had had in my head didn't match the reality. I really appreciated the responses that helped me and my wife to focus on locations that would have a better chance of working out. As an example, we had originally considered Jocotepec since the houses (land) are cheaper, but we realized from the responses that we wanted to be closer to Ajijic.

So, I've been very pleased with the answers to this post and to my other posts.


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## wanghaozhi (Nov 9, 2017)

citlali said:


> b bringing in the materail and taking out the material during the permitted hours was a pain and expensive as well.
> 
> Razing a house and building is obviusly more expensive than building on an empty lot.
> If I had to do it again I would build from scratch on an empty lot.


Thanks, citlali. I always appreciate your very practical responses. 

Based on the answers from the many helpful respondents to my previous posts, my wife and I have narrowed our areas of interest from a bit east of to a bit west of Ajijic; it's still going to take a lot of looking, but we like to walk, and my wife is really interested in real estate. It's clear to me that we just have to take our time and not rush into this and enjoy the process.


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## wanghaozhi (Nov 9, 2017)

AlanMexicali said:


> We bought a lot in a "privada"


Hi, AlanMexicalli. I know that "privada" means private, but I'm unfamiliar with what it means in the context of Mexican real estate. Please illuminate me.

Also, I figure you might know what a "PV system" is. I've seen the term but haven't been able to find out what that is.

Thanks for your input.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

wanghaozhi said:


> Hi, AlanMexicalli. I know that "privada" means private, but I'm unfamiliar with what it means in the context of Mexican real estate. Please illuminate me.
> 
> Also, I figure you might know what a "PV system" is. I've seen the term but haven't been able to find out what that is.
> 
> Thanks for your input.


A PV system is a Photo-voltaic system aka solar panels that generate power.
An RO system is a reverse osmosis system which filters water.
A privada aka fraccionamiento is a residential community - often gated/guarded.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

a privada can also be a dead end street. Usually a smaller dead end street. That is what it is in Ajijic. We live in a privada but we are in the village and we are not in a gated community so maybe different names in different cities.

The water in Ajijic is potable at its source but we all have aljibe (cisterns) usually underground or tinaco where the water sits and the pipes on the street can be very old so it is prudent not to drink the water. Some areas have their rivate wells and treat the water so each fracc or barrio etc,, is differnt. Do not assume anything ask about the water source and also ask if you are on the sewer or on a septic which often means something more like latrins than septic tank as you may know it.. Know that electricity is expensive so a solar system is a great asset , ask for the water bills ,,. Some people pay a fee according to the size of the property size of the construction and number of rooms and bathrooms others have meters.. My bill went way up when we went to the meter.. We have a large garden on 2 lots so I had them split the bill in 2 and I have 2 meters for the electicity. the house is on the solar and the pool on a separate meter but usually unless you have 2 lots you cannot do that but it is not an absolute.. I have 2 meters in Chiapas and one small lot. The reason for the 2 meters is that the rate goes up according to consumption, th emore you use the higher the rate is...

Also be aware for your protection that many rules can be broken..I am not saying that for you to break a rule but I am thinking of a neighbor who had a house with a window very close to her property line. When a Mexican woman bought the next door property she spoke of building casitas separated by a private garden and tol the woman she would have a wonderful vire og the garden, then changed her mind built row houses and built the wall right in front of the woman´s window.. In this particular case no rule was broken but the lady who expected to have a nice view as a wall in front of her kitchen window

ANother friend got a 3 storey house built right next door to her blocking the sun on her poperty, another man got a 3 strey house blocking the view from his mirador and so on so much for the rule on height.. A little money goes a long way around her and things can change.. there is no garanty no zoning in the village except for the rules that you cannot raise pigs..


There is no zoning rules or very few in the village..which means that the empty lot next to you can become a very noisy business.. You have rules in the fracc and gated communities.
I know that in Chiapas we had rules about the heights of the building and many rules from INAH , Ajijic is way more lax.. We are supposed to have a 2 story house max but it is not well respected. Also you cannot have a window overlooking someones property if you are on the property limit. Do not assume that the 4 walls around your property are yours half yours and half your neighbor.
On our property the north wall is ours the south wall the neighbor´s the east wall the neighbor and the west wall ours.. We are also responsable for the small sidewalk in front of our property.

Also the internet access varies a lot throughout the area, the further away you are from the equipment the worst the download speed is. Also I was at Telmex and found out they are out of lines so I was talking to people who were building a new house and could not get a date or commitment for a phone line.. It looks like with the number of people moving in the infrastructure is overloaded and a phone line could become valuable again.. So check what kind of service you can get on the lot / house where you want to move. Do not assume anything...


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

citlali said:


> a privada can also be a dead end street. Usually a smaller dead end street. That is what it is in Ajijic. We live in a privada but we are in the village and we are not in a gated community so maybe different names in different cities.


Yes - like a cul-de-sac. They call them privadas here as well - but they are almost always gated (which is closed at night) but often not guarded. Maybe 5 or 6 houses.


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## citlali (Mar 4, 2013)

Not so here in Ajijic. Also some small street between 2 larger street can be called Privada like Privada Ocampo between Ocampo and Zaragossa..


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

If you decide to build, let us know, you can benefit from other's experience here.


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## rmajijic (Jul 15, 2017)

wanghaozhi said:


> Hi, rmajijic
> Sorry about being unclear. Here are a couple of examples that may give you the flavor of what was in my head (but not written out, a trait my wife says I'm often guilty of). 1) The permits required for Seattle are different from those of other towns nearby; I can look those up online, but I haven't seen any way to look up zoning or codes for Lake Chapala (I suppose it's possible that there may be none, but I can't tell). 2) I can't directly buy land near the coast of Mexico and I can't legally buy ejido land; again, those are things that I found out from reading comments and watching videos online.


Great posts by everyone here. You are getting a lot of great information!
Hopefully I am not being repetitive but as stated, there are no real enforceable zoning laws or building codes, and again, as stated, showing money can still go a long ways here.
The great thing is, as you mentioned, the properties are deeded and you can will it down to your children or whomever so it's a good investment. You just need to make a Mexican will.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

We live no where near Jalisco - but our Fracc. does have a few rules. We cannot have an exterior wall over 5 meters tall. We cannot curtail the flow of water such that it does not return to the aquifer. There actually is a covenant that each owner has to formally agree to - subject to change of course - and it is quite lengthy. One thing mentioned is to respect the right of your neighbor to enjoy a peaceful life. 

We have a very good friend who purchased a house - in a very residential fracc. - which she put a lot of money into remodeling. When she gets all done, construction begins across the street from her for a building to house an accounting firm. It provides two levels of subterranean parking !

Edit : and we do have Mexican wills. There is a period (perhaps Oct) where wills are half price.


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## wanghaozhi (Nov 9, 2017)

*Thanks, all*

Thanks, all.:tea:
I have enough to digest for a while.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

In the Lake Chapala area, September is half price wills month.

Second point: Zoning laws exist along with height limitations in certain areas, but in most cases I see around here money has a louder voice than law.


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## wanghaozhi (Nov 9, 2017)

*Thanks, eastwind, and a new question for all*



eastwind said:


> Surabi has a really good post on this topic in another thread, "Banking options for Oaxaca...".


Thanks for that reference. I've just read it and it certainly has some cautionary tales.

After reading Surabi's post and other responses to my post, I now wonder how some of you have successfully navigated remodeling or new construction? 

After reading your responses, I've rearranged my options: 1) buy a house, remodel it to some extent, then move in 2) buy a lot, build a house, then move in 3) buy a house and move in 4) buy a house, raze it to the ground, build a new home, then move in.

3) isn't 1) because I think that's quite unlikely.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

wanghaozhi said:


> Thanks for that reference. I've just read it and it certainly has some cautionary tales.
> 
> After reading Surabi's post and other responses to my post, I now wonder how some of you have successfully navigated remodeling or new construction?
> 
> ...


...


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Take this for what it's worth (free):

Friends of ours moved to the Ajijic area, rented, went house hunting, found a place that wasn't too old in a well run fracc., bought it, moved in, didn't do much at all and have lived happily there ever since. When something needs work, they hire someone to do so. Mexican workers give good value for the pesos you pay and their labor will cost much less than it would have NOB. This is probably the easiest way to go.

My spouse and I had done so much remodeling (much of it with our own four hands) that we wanted no more of it. However, we found an extremely well located old house (at least a century old) in a sorry state after various bungled attempts at improvement over the years. We tackled the project, hired some help, went through all kinds of challenging experiences and had some good laughs in the process as well as some bad days. Nine years later, we're proud of it and love the old thing. This is the hard way, but this can work, too.

Another person we've met razed the wreck and had a new house built. Sadly, the new house might as well be in tractsville NOB. Besides, Mexican workmen have a very different way of doing things and some of those are mysterious.

I'd suggest renting something agreeable enough to avoid feeling rushed in finding the house with the most "yesses" on your wants list. A few "no's" can usually be fixed.
Good luck!


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## wanghaozhi (Nov 9, 2017)

*Thanks, lagoloo*



lagoloo said:


> I'd suggest renting something agreeable enough to avoid feeling rushed in finding the house with the most "yesses" on your wants list. A few "no's" can usually be fixed.
> Good luck!


Good perspective, and worth much more than I paid.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

A fun little example of mysterious construction my housekeeper discovered yesterday. If the ocean-side sliding glass doors on the apartment are open the wind blows in. That's expected. But there is a gap of about an inch between the top of the (useless) dishwasher and the bottom of the kitchen counter top. For some reason when wind is blowing into the apartment, air blows out over the top of the dishwasher into the kitchen. It's totally unclear how the air is getting behind the dishwasher in order to blow out. If we pulled out the dishwasher we might gain a clue, but still, that's just weird. The dishwasher is facing the open glass doors, so this air coming over the dishwasher is blowing in exactly the opposite direction as the wind coming into the apartment.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

eastwind said:


> A fun little example of mysterious construction my housekeeper discovered yesterday. If the ocean-side sliding glass doors on the apartment are open the wind blows in. That's expected. But there is a gap of about an inch between the top of the (useless) dishwasher and the bottom of the kitchen counter top. For some reason when wind is blowing into the apartment, air blows out over the top of the dishwasher into the kitchen. It's totally unclear how the air is getting behind the dishwasher in order to blow out. If we pulled out the dishwasher we might gain a clue, but still, that's just weird. The dishwasher is facing the open glass doors, so this air coming over the dishwasher is blowing in exactly the opposite direction as the wind coming into the apartment.


My guess would be that the wind coming in through the glass doors is creating a low pressure zone near the dish washer, maybe somewhat like the air flowing over the top of a wing creates a low pressure on the bottom of a wing.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Good one ! 
How about this one: A previous owner of "this old house" wanted more wall room in the dirt floored kitchen, so he or she built a wall in the former spot where the kitchen archway opened to the dining room, and put the dining chairs and table on the terrazza outside. Okay in good weather only. By the time we moved in, tile floors were in the kitchen, at least. To reach the inside dining area, you needed to walk through two other rooms. Mystery. you can guess what we did about that one.
I won't get into the subject of the plumbing and wiring, except to mention that the kitchen sink drained into the neighbor's yard, and we wondered about that SMELL until the neighbor started adding a room and found it. (Fortunately, we're on good terms with them.) Not something a home inspection discovers, eh?


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

Speaking of smells - a month after moving into our house 4 years ago we noticed that there was a really foul odor in the master bath. We had some 'expert' plumbers come in and they said we needed to extend the cement drainage tubes such that they extended into the water beneath. We did all that but the smells persisted - but mostly during the rainy season.

Early in 2017 we decided to investigate the condition of our septic system. We pulled out the architectural diagrams and started digging. Nothing was where it was supposed to be. It took at least a couple days to find the line leading out of the master bath. We then followed that line to the property line. It was crushed - and in a sense our septic system had amounted to leaching into the ground under a giant avocado.

We finally found our 'tanks'. They were were pretty much filled. There were two tanks and there was a 4" PVC tube between them but the tube had shifted and no longer connected the two tanks. So the 'system' was really broken. 

Over the last 4 years we have planted a lot of stuff in our garden. Fortunately in the septic repair we really only needed to move two trees - which had adapted to the move. We had no idea what all was entailed in a septic system...


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Septic system: Had one once. Regular clean outs needed every six months to a year, (depending on number of residents) by calling the local Septic service. Honey wagon comes, slurps, and smell departs.

One advantage to living in a central town location: Usually a regular sewer system. Ours works so well that we can flush rather than collect paper in basket. Woo hoo! Great, until the main pipe breaks. Had to deal with that one last year. That becomes evident really fast.


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

lagoloo said:


> Septic system: Had one once. Regular clean outs needed every six months to a year, (depending on number of residents) by calling the local Septic service. Honey wagon comes, slurps, and smell departs.
> 
> One advantage to living in a central town location: Usually a regular sewer system. Ours works so well that we can flush rather than collect paper in basket. Woo hoo! Great, until the main pipe breaks. Had to deal with that one last year. That becomes evident really fast.


We are on a community well - but most of the surrounding areas near us are on a 'regular sewer system'/ water service. But for at least 3-4 months last year the water company had a fight with CFE and CFE cut them off. We flush paper. Our tanks are buried with no real access (perhaps 2 ft deep) - so we have to consider if we really need it.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

lat19n said:


> We are on a community well - but most of the surrounding areas near us are on a 'regular sewer system'/ water service. But for at least 3-4 months last year the water company had a fight with CFE and CFE cut them off. We flush paper. Our tanks are buried with no real access (perhaps 2 ft deep) - so we have to consider if we really need it.


A month or so ago, a huge hole opened up in the street in front of my house. On the surface there was only a small hole, maybe 10 cm by 30 cm (4x12 inches) visible in the pavement, but underneath it would have swallowed a small car. A few days later SIAPA showed up to fix it. It turned out the sewer connection to my house was broken and had been washing away the ground under the street for quite awhile. They patched the pipe, filled the hole, and repaved. There was no charge to me. And there had not been any smell.

Edit: Replace "whole" with "hole".


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

You shouldn't need septic tank cleaning if your waste is all draining into a regular sewer system.
However...I know of at least one case where the property has undergone multiple lot splits of a once large estate. Some septic tanks are on neighboring properties with the result that one house drain goes into the old septic tank and there's no clue as to where. No problem as yet, but.......
Viva Mexico.


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

lat19n said:


> Speaking of smells - a month after moving into our house 4 years ago we noticed that there was a really foul odor in the master bath. We had some 'expert' plumbers come in and they said we needed to extend the cement drainage tubes such that they extended into the water beneath. We did all that but the smells persisted - but mostly during the rainy season.
> 
> Early in 2017 we decided to investigate the condition of our septic system. We pulled out the architectural diagrams and started digging. Nothing was where it was supposed to be. It took at least a couple days to find the line leading out of the master bath. We then followed that line to the property line. It was crushed - and in a sense our septic system had amounted to leaching into the ground under a giant avocado.
> 
> ...


This story sounds extremely familiar, almost like I've heard it before, on this very forum.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

At the age of many posters on here.......the memory banks spill over sometimes, so lets be kind.
(Chuckle)


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## eastwind (Jun 18, 2016)

lagoloo said:


> At the age of many posters on here.......the memory banks spill over sometimes, so lets be kind.
> (Chuckle)


Well the thing is, I don't remember hearing it from lat19n, and it was longer ago than last August, but I'm not sure who I did hear it from. So I think it's perhaps just an extreme coincidence. Or perhaps a case of deja vu


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## lat19n (Aug 19, 2017)

eastwind said:


> Well the thing is, I don't remember hearing it from lat19n, and it was longer ago than last August, but I'm not sure who I did hear it from. So I think it's perhaps just an extreme coincidence. Or perhaps a case of deja vu


From lat19n :

I have had soo many ids on sites such as this over the years that I can hardly recognize my own comments, But - I promise you that I have always heartily believed in what I have posted. I have nothing to gain. I am not trying to mislead.

I just get in periods where some of the people posting on forums such as this nauseate me to such a point that I have to back away.


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