# Expat Enclaves in Smaller Places



## vantexan

Everyone knows about the large American expat areas such as the Lake Chapala area, San Miguel de Allende, Puerto Vallarta. Just from reading I think there might be some smaller places with enough expats to have a "community". I know there are numerous towns that may have a few foreigners, but are there smaller cities, less than say 100,000, down to small towns with a few thousand people that have a noticeable expat presence? I believe Tequisquiapan(spelling?) is such a place. Others? Jerez, Zacatecas? Coatepec, Veracruz? Alamos, Sonora? Just curious, wondering what the draw to those places is that might attract more than a few foreigners to put down roots.


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## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> Everyone knows about the large American expat areas such as the Lake Chapala area, San Miguel de Allende, Puerto Vallarta. Just from reading I think there might be some smaller places with enough expats to have a "community". I know there are numerous towns that may have a few foreigners, but are there smaller cities, less than say 100,000, down to small towns with a few thousand people that have a noticeable expat presence? I believe Tequisquiapan(spelling?) is such a place. Others? Jerez, Zacatecas? Coatepec, Veracruz? Alamos, Sonora? Just curious, wondering what the draw to those places is that might attract more than a few foreigners to put down roots.


I would like you to come to San Juan del Río, Queretaro, if you do come, let's meet for a coffee or beer, very interesting place!


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## kcowan

I believe it is the desire to blend in rather than maintain a separate ****** presence. That can be a challenge but the Nationals often welcome it.


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## vantexan

kcowan said:


> I believe it is the desire to blend in rather than maintain a separate ****** presence. That can be a challenge but the Nationals often welcome it.


Actually I'm looking for smaller places that are so pleasant, so enjoyable, that they've attracted a fair number of foreigners, particularly English speakers. Not referring to gated communities.


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## vantexan

GARYJ65 said:


> I would like you to come to San Juan del Río, Queretaro, if you do come, let's meet for a coffee or beer, very interesting place!


San Juan certainly looks to be well positioned to enjoy much of the best Mexico offers. How do you find the cost of living Gary?


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## kcowan

vantexan said:


> Not referring to gated communities.


Mexicans love gated communities. If you are the only ****** there, you have a good shot of achieving what you want.


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## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> San Juan certainly looks to be well positioned to enjoy much of the best Mexico offers. How do you find the cost of living Gary?


Great!
I have been here for about 15 yrs now


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## vantexan

kcowan said:


> Mexicans love gated communities. If you are the only ****** there, you have a good shot of achieving what you want.


Again, not looking for a gated community. Looking for places that are so nice they have attracted a number of foreign residents but aren't the bigger, well known expat colonies.


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## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> Again, not looking for a gated community. Looking for places that are so nice they have attracted a number of foreign residents but aren't the bigger, well known expat colonies.


And I disagree; "mexicans" do not love gated communities, SOME mexicans do, some others don't, some others hate gated comunities


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## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> Again, not looking for a gated community. Looking for places that are so nice they have attracted a number of foreign residents but aren't the bigger, well known expat colonies.


San Juan del Rio has a number of foreign people, not as many as to make a colony. (Nice)


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## Isla Verde

GARYJ65 said:


> And I disagree; "mexicans" do not love gated communities, SOME mexicans do, some others don't, some others hate gated comunities


I don't have any Mexican friends who live in gated communities. I wonder what sort of Mexicans do like them . . .


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## vantexan

Thanks Gary for supplying me with an actual town to consider. Seemed like a good idea to start a thread on places that people looking for alternatives to the better known expat communities would have some ideas to explore further. Of course there's always the list of Pueblos Magicos.


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## GARYJ65

vantexan said:


> Thanks Gary for supplying me with an actual town to consider. Seemed like a good idea to start a thread on places that people looking for alternatives to the better known expat communities would have some ideas to explore further. Of course there's always the list of Pueblos Magicos.


Sounds like a good thread idea!

Whenever you come to Queretaro or San Juan, let me know and I'll be more than happy to meet you and show you around


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## makaloco

vantexan said:


> Again, not looking for a gated community. Looking for places that are so nice they have attracted a number of foreign residents but aren't the bigger, well known expat colonies.


La Paz is bigger than what you have in mind (~250,000 in the municipal area), but it's spread out and has mostly one- and two-story buildings. The 2010 census shows 2,094 foreign-born individuals, although some would be Mexicans born abroad. Part-time expat residents probably weren't counted, as the census was taken in summer when most weren't here. What attracts them? Beaches, fishing, sailing, diving, kayaking and other water activities, friendly people, casual, laid-back atmosphere, good medical care, variety of products and services available. Downsides (to some): property must be owned via fideicomiso; summers are too hot for many people; nightlife is too tame for die-hard partiers (e.g. those who love Cabo San Lucas). Expats can choose to live in outlying areas where most neighbors are other expats, or (as I and many others do) in central residential neighborhoods where neighbors are Mexican.


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## Longford

GARYJ65 said:


> And I disagree; "mexicans" do not love gated communities, SOME mexicans do, some others don't, some others hate gated comunities


Mexicans who can afford it ... like, love, want the gated areas. Be those just sections of streets/colonias in Mexico City ... or an entire subdivison someplace. It's not the expats who the gated communities are designed for ... it's the Mexicans 'of means.'


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## Longford

vantexan said:


> Thanks Gary for supplying me with an actual town to consider. Seemed like a good idea to start a thread on places that people looking for alternatives to the better known expat communities would have some ideas to explore further. Of course there's always the list of Pueblos Magicos.


An expat who has found "paradise" will not be sharing that information, IMO. It's fairly easy to learn where the expats are collecting themselves. But the smart ones don't much talk about it.


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## johnmex

I like my gated community, but another ****** has moved in (and he is a cheesehead too!), so I may need to look for a new place.... ;-)


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## kcowan

Isla Verde said:


> I don't have any Mexican friends who live in gated communities. I wonder what sort of Mexicans do like them . . .


I have found them to be fine nationals who just like the extra security. They are relatives in GDL and Jocotepic of our friends who own in a gated condo in Nuevo Vallarta.


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## TundraGreen

kcowan said:


> I have found them to be fine nationals who just like the extra security. They are relatives in GDL and Jocotepic of our friends who own in a gated condo in Nuevo Vallarta.


Agreed, ordinary people. I have a young friend who lives in Querétaro. During the recession, she was laid off from a good job at GE. She got a generous separation package. So about a year ago, she and her boyfriend bought a lot in a gated community outside Qro, La Piramide, I think it is called. They have built a house there.


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## elchante

Don't totally rule out the Lake Chapala area. Just depends where around the lake you live. I live in Jocotepec (town) and there are really not that many gringos here. But there are areas even in Joco municipality (county) which are loaded with gringos. Just depends on where you live. 

Personally, I would definitely consider Sahuayo and Zamora, Michoacan, as good places to live where you can find gringos, but you'd have to look around for a while to find them. And any of the villages on the south shore of Lake Chapala would put you within easy distance of other gringos while having very few in your own community.


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## vantexan

elchante said:


> Don't totally rule out the Lake Chapala area. Just depends where around the lake you live. I live in Jocotepec (town) and there are really not that many gringos here. But there are areas even in Joco municipality (county) which are loaded with gringos. Just depends on where you live.
> 
> Personally, I would definitely consider Sahuayo and Zamora, Michoacan, as good places to live where you can find gringos, but you'd have to look around for a while to find them. And any of the villages on the south shore of Lake Chapala would put you within easy distance of other gringos while having very few in your own community.


I'm not against having other gringos around, but anywhere there are large numbers the places are pretty expensive. Not looking for someone's secret "paradise" either. Just curious about "second tier" locations that attract a fair number of foreigners without being overrun by them and jacking up prices. Enough of a population suggests, to me at least, that that town is enjoyable, and accepting of foreigners. Sayulita seems to have such a population, but I'm not really a beach person and it's geared towards partying it seems. Alamos, Sonora is a bit remote, and too hot much of the year. Was wondering about Bernal, the town with the huge monolith behind it. I'm looking for a mostly spring like climate, mountain scenery, popular with Mexicans for weekend visits and thus a fair amount of restaurants for it's size. Preferably good local produce markets. Looks like, if I stay in Mexico, I'll either try Oaxaca State or Chiapas. My fiancée wants something a bit exotic with a nice climate. We may head to Peru.


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## RVGRINGO

Why would anyone want an *enclave*?


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## vantexan

RVGRINGO said:


> Why would anyone want an *enclave*?


Why, to piss off snooty know it alls! Why else? Might have been the wrong word to use.


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## citlali

Most towns have foreigners living there, you can even find foreigners in indigenous villages too, usually loners but sometimes several of them. The foreigners in smaller communities usually blend in and are dispersed so I would not talk about enclaves.
No enclave anywhere I know in Chiapas.


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## vantexan

citlali said:


> Most towns have foreigners living there, you can even find foreigners in indigenous villages too, usually loners but sometimes several of them. The foreigners in smaller communities usually blend in and are dispersed so I would not talk about enclaves.
> No enclave anywhere I know in Chiapas.


Does San Cristobal get enough travelers to have a ****** hangout or two?


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## Longford

vantexan said:


> Does San Cristobal get enough travelers to have a ****** hangout or two?


You might call the entire city, a "hangout" for foreigners ... almost all of whom are passing through (tourists). Not just people from the USA and Canada.


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## citlali

I do not know about local ****** hang out, I do not have time to hang out and except for a handful of people, my friends are Mexicans and a few foreigners who work . We get together in each others house and not on the street as a rule.
There are lots and lots of foreigners in the restaurants most of them very young who do not know the 0¨s are long gone. There are not many Americans or Canadians and most people speak Spanish, There are a few that do not but you hear mostly Spanish with accents from all over the world.


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## gwizzzzz

Try Todos Santos


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## Isla Verde

gwizzzzz said:


> Try Todos Santos


A town, a barrio, a restaurant, a bar?


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## AlanMexicali

Isla Verde said:


> A town, a barrio, a restaurant, a bar?


It´s a cute small town in Baja Sur on the Pacific side going south half way to Los Cabos from La Paz.


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## kcowan

I have never been to Baja Sur but I have the impression that it is more like a cross between California and Arizona than the rest of Mexico. Am I way off base? Not Loreto so much as Cabo?


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## HolyMole

kcowan said:


> I have never been to Baja Sur but I have the impression that it is more like a cross between California and Arizona than the rest of Mexico. Am I way off base? Not Loreto so much as Cabo?


That's like saying Utah isn't like the rest of the United States. Baja Sur is as Mexican as any other part of the Republic. Is it different than Veracrux or San Cristobal de las Casas? Certainly.

For a smaller city with a permanent community of foreigners, try Zihuatanejo, Guerrero. The city population is somewhere in the 60 - 70 thousand range. There may be a couple of hundred full-time foreigners there, most of whom blend-in rather well. Those numbers of foreigners swell, of course, during the winter months, but nowhere near as visibly as, say, a Puerto Vallarta, Cabo San Lucas or Cancun.


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## mickisue1

HolyMole said:


> That's like saying Utah isn't like the rest of the United States. Baja Sur is as Mexican as any other part of the Republic. Is it different than Veracrux or San Cristobal de las Casas? Certainly.
> 
> For a smaller city with a permanent community of foreigners, try Zihuatanejo, Guerrero. The city population is somewhere in the 60 - 70 thousand range. There may be a couple of hundred full-time foreigners there, most of whom blend-in rather well. Those numbers of foreigners swell, of course, during the winter months, but nowhere near as visibly as, say, a Puerto Vallarta, Cabo San Lucas or Cancun.


I'm so happy to hear you say that, HM. With the advent of our grandchild in Italy, we are thinking of dividing our time between there and MX, and Zihuatanejo is way up my list for a place near the ocean for the winter.

I especially like that it's a city that happens to be near the beach, not a beach city, if that makes sense. With college students there to study, not just party, it seems to be a place where there will be a mix of ages who have lives there, not just party time.


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## Isla Verde

mickisue1 said:


> I especially like that it's a city that happens to be near the beach, not a beach city, if that makes sense. With college students there to study, not just party, it seems to be a place where there will be a mix of ages who have lives there, not just party time.


I know little about Zihuantenejo, so I need you to enlighten me, mickisue. What sort of university is located there?


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## vantexan

Thanks everyone for the tips, some very illuminating. After all that I was describing various places in Mexico to my fiancée and she is very taken with the idea of living in a near perfect climate that Atlixco is said to have. That and quick access to Puebla sounds wonderful to her, and it's certainly an area I'm interested in. I get the feeling the exotic locales she was interested in were more about making me happy but that's ok. We certainly plan to check out numerous places so who knows. Thanks again!


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## mickisue1

No places big; I may have misspoken with "university", rather, colleges and the MX equivalent of junior colleges in the US.

In Zihua, as well as the smaller communities around it. There are a couple of technical colleges, Conalep and Instituto Technologico de la Costa Grande, for the larger ones.

In looking for rental homes in the center, I saw many references to proximity to campus. Having students around is a plus, but being in the middle of a student enclave may be another animal completely.


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## Isla Verde

mickisue1 said:


> No places big; I may have misspoken with "university", rather, colleges and the MX equivalent of junior colleges in the US.
> 
> In Zihua, as well as the smaller communities around it. There are a couple of technical colleges, Conalep and Instituto Technologico de la Costa Grande, for the larger ones.


Let's keep in mind that in Mexico a "colegio" is not a college in the American sense of the word. It can refer to a school that goes anywhere from elementary school to high school. CONALEP schools exist all over Mexico and are technical high schools, not junior colleges, which really do not exist in Mexico, as far as I know. On the other hand, the Instituto that you mention is indeed an institution of higher learning, a university.


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## Longford

mickisue1 said:


> I especially like that it's a city that happens to be near the beach, not a beach city, if that makes sense.


Zihuatanejo IS a beach town/city. Not just "near" the beach, but smack, dab on the beach. It exists because it's a beach city.


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## citlali

vantexan chose a place because it has what you want or need not because it is exotic..the sense of exotic is very short lived and then here you are living it every day and the exotic is just part of daily life and it is not exotic anymore...


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## gudgrief

GARYJ65 said:


> I would like you to come to San Juan del Río, Queretaro, if you do come, let's meet for a coffee or beer, very interesting place!


Even though there may be quite a bit of English speaking tourism, there's really no expat community at all in Zacatecas.


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## MitaMs

Punta de Mita in Nayarit is nice. I've been here for a number of years and love it. Nice beaches, good neighbors. What more could you want? We have the Four Seasons resort out here, but they keep to themselves. We probably less than a hundred gringos who either live her six months or full time. The full timers are few, but we love the rain in the summer.


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## citlali

There are expats in Jerez, Zacatecas


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## gudgrief

citlali said:


> There are expats in Jerez, Zacatecas


Very true.

I keep promising myself I'll go and explore, it's less than 30 miles away.
I'm weird in that I wanted to avoid the heat. Jerez is quite a bit lower than Zacatecas city and a lot hotter.

The one time I was there was in September 2008 and it felt like an oven to, but that's just me.

The US Consulate in Monterrey put on a meeting here a couple of years ago and of the 30 US citizens who attended only 2 of US were "Anglo" expats. The others were all people of Mexican origin who had gotten US citizenship either recently or generations back and had come "home." I don't know how that compares to other parts of Mexico. Zacatecas State has had a long tradition of people going to the US, staying for a while and then returning. Along the way, many got US citizenship. For what it's worth.


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## mickisue1

Isla Verde said:


> Let's keep in mind that in Mexico a "colegio" is not a college in the American sense of the word. It can refer to a school that goes anywhere from elementary school to high school. CONALEP schools exist all over Mexico and are technical high schools, not junior colleges, which really do not exist in Mexico, as far as I know. On the other hand, the Instituto that you mention is indeed an institution of higher learning, a university.


Thank you for that correction. My Spanish is poor, and I translated as well as I could...but not that well, clearly.


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## Isla Verde

mickisue1 said:


> Thank you for that correction. My Spanish is poor, and I translated as well as I could...but not that well, clearly.


Happy to help. I wonder what (shudder) Google Translate would make of "colegio"? Translation is partly linguistic, partly contextual and partly cultural, so it can take awhile to do it well.


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## gudgrief

Isla Verde said:


> Happy to help. I wonder what (shudder) Google Translate would make of "colegio"? Translation is partly linguistic, partly contextual and partly cultural, so it can take awhile to do it well.


Simply "school." I think that's pretty universal.

There is a second meaning of colegio in the sense of College o Cardinals which means an association of people of the same profession or "level of dgnity." I put that last in quotes because I'm not quite sure of the translation.


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## vantexan

citlali said:


> vantexan chose a place because it has what you want or need not because it is exotic..the sense of exotic is very short lived and then here you are living it every day and the exotic is just part of daily life and it is not exotic anymore...


You're right, lived in a beautiful valley in Colorado for a couple of years. Cost of living was high enough that I couldn't really get out and enjoy as much as I would have liked and pretty soon the mountain backdrop wasn't that noticeable. But as Hound Dog pointed out the best produce markets at the lowest prices seem to be in heavily indigenous areas. I'm not a vegetarian but having survived a near fatal clogged artery I do want to eat as healthy as possible. Love Mexican food but much of it isn't heart healthy. I do find the "exotic" areas appealing, but if I can live comfortably in the middle of the country without financial stress then visits to those areas would be plenty. I gave up completely on Honduras in spite of the low cost due to expats there admitting you won't see the kind of open air produce markets there that are common in Guatemala. Rice and beans seem to accompany every meal in much of Central America and often are the meal. Would much rather experience quality food in Mexico with a heavy emphasis on produce at home.


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## Artster

I've lived in Tlaquepaque for about 10 years now and enjoy the small town feel within arms reach of the big city. If I stay in Tlaquepaque, its life in a small village. If I hop over to Guadalajara, its everything you'd expect in a large Mexican city.


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## da2434890

Consider San Carlos, Sonora which is a town of about 13000 of which half are US or Canadian. It is on the Sea of Cortez surrounded by mountains and desert. Harder to get to because of few flights - most people drive and stay for months. Guaymas is 250,000 and is 20 KM away, Hermosillo is 90 minutes, and it is only 6 hours to Tucson and for many a major VA hospital.


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## gudgrief

*A Cool Place in Mexico*

This may be a little off topic. I'm not looking for an enclave so much as a place in Mexico that meets certain requirements. Any suggestions would be welcome.

I picked Zacatecas because the temperature doesn't really get above the mid 80's and even then it cools off quickly after sunset. The humidity is relatively low at around 30-35%. The winter nights get a bit colder than I'd like; during the day outside it's still quite pleasant.

My main concern right now is that I may be getting too old for the 8000' altitude.

Does anyone know of a place in Mexico with decent infrastructure lower down where it doesn't get much hotter than 85 in the summer and the humidity stays pretty low and the winter temp stays around 60? I suspect Zacatecas is already as close a Mexico comes.

Again, I'll appreciate any suggestions. I'll put them on my list of places to visit if nothing else.


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## RVGRINGO

You are describing Chapala; just over 5000 feet and neither AC nor furnaces are required.


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## GARYJ65

gudgrief said:


> This may be a little off topic. I'm not looking for an enclave so much as a place in Mexico that meets certain requirements. Any suggestions would be welcome.
> 
> I picked Zacatecas because the temperature doesn't really get above the mid 80's and even then it cools off quickly after sunset. The humidity is relatively low at around 30-35%. The winter nights get a bit colder than I'd like; during the day outside it's still quite pleasant.
> 
> My main concern right now is that I may be getting too old for the 8000' altitude.
> 
> Does anyone know of a place in Mexico with decent infrastructure lower down where it doesn't get much hotter than 85 in the summer and the humidity stays pretty low and the winter temp stays around 60? I suspect Zacatecas is already as close a Mexico comes.
> 
> Again, I'll appreciate any suggestions. I'll put them on my list of places to visit if nothing else.


My suggestion: Queretaro


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## gudgrief

RVGRINGO said:


> You are describing Chapala; just over 5000 feet and neither AC nor furnaces are required.


Thanks for the response.

I had the impression that it got much hotter there. We were there, I think in April, a couple of years ago. Looks like I ought to take another pass through in June or July.

I got the impression Chapala was pretty much for homeowners. Are furnished apartments available?


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## gudgrief

GARYJ65 said:


> My suggestion: Queretaro


Thanks Gary.


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## GARYJ65

gudgrief said:


> This may be a little off topic. I'm not looking for an enclave so much as a place in Mexico that meets certain requirements. Any suggestions would be welcome.
> 
> I picked Zacatecas because the temperature doesn't really get above the mid 80's and even then it cools off quickly after sunset. The humidity is relatively low at around 30-35%. The winter nights get a bit colder than I'd like; during the day outside it's still quite pleasant.
> 
> My main concern right now is that I may be getting too old for the 8000' altitude.
> 
> Does anyone know of a place in Mexico with decent infrastructure lower down where it doesn't get much hotter than 85 in the summer and the humidity stays pretty low and the winter temp stays around 60? I suspect Zacatecas is already as close a Mexico comes.
> 
> Again, I'll appreciate any suggestions. I'll put them on my list of places to visit if nothing else.


Queretaro altitude: 5970 ft


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## adwohc

*Oaxaca*

Oaxaca is nice community of expats spread around the area. I've been wanting to visit other areas myself and would be interested in swapping my condo for a week or so???


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## gudgrief

adwohc said:


> Oaxaca is nice community of expats spread around the area. I've been wanting to visit other areas myself and would be interested in swapping my condo for a week or so???


I've been to Oaxaca a few times but never in summer. Doesn't the temp get pretty high?


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## Longford

gudgrief said:


> I've been to Oaxaca a few times but never in summer. Doesn't the temp get pretty high?




Average High/Low Temperatures for Oaxaca | Weather Underground


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## adwohc

85% with 10% difference year round....lots of humidity in summer with rain. It's in the 90's now then down to 60's at night. I' have a place year round but go back and forth


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## gudgrief

Longford said:


> Average High/Low Temperatures for Oaxaca | Weather Underground


Thanks, those average high temps up over 90 and almost 100 rules it out for me.

The place really attracts me and I will continue to visit.


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## adwohc

85 is the averages...right now it is above average and in the 90s


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## Longford

gudgrief said:


> Thanks, those average high temps up over 90 and almost 100 rules it out for me.
> 
> The place really attracts me and I will continue to visit.


Average high temperatures are about 85 during the hottest month of the year, April. Yes, there are exceptions ... but these are averages witnessed over many years.


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## tepetapan

RVGRINGO said:


> You are describing Chapala; just over 5000 feet and neither AC nor furnaces are required.


 With average highs in May at 89F and average lows Jan,, Febuary and December in the mid 40¨s They may not be required but AC and heat would sure be nice. Let´s be honest here. 

Monthly Averages for Chapala, Mexico - weather.com


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## citlali

Actually the heat is dry as a rule in May and we get a breeze, our house is under trees, facing north and we have fans, the nights are cool so we do not need A/C ever , on the other hand in Dec and Jan the house is cold and we turn on the heat after the sun goes down and in the morning until 10am. 
In Chiapas at 7000 feet we have heat in the moring and every evening most of the year.


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## tepetapan

citlali said:


> Actually the heat is dry as a rule in May and we get a breeze, our house is under trees, facing north and we have fans, the nights are cool so we do not need A/C ever , on the other hand in Dec and Jan the house is cold and we turn on the heat after the sun goes down and in the morning until 10am.
> In Chiapas at 7000 feet we have heat in the moring and every evening most of the year.


 So in all fairness
SZT, San Cristobal de las Casas Airport, San Cristobal de las Casas, Mexico Weather Averages | Monthly Average High and Low Temperature | Average Precipitation and Rainfall days | World Weather Online
Lows 4 months of the year in the mid 40´s, Highs during the hottest months of the year 70 F.
What surprised me was the wind, reaching 90 kph at times, just about any month of the year. WOW!


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## vantexan

gudgrief said:


> Thanks, those average high temps up over 90 and almost 100 rules it out for me.
> 
> The place really attracts me and I will continue to visit.


Are you the man who has the blog on living in Zacatecas? Very good blog. Would Jerez be a reasonable alternative if you wanted to stay in Zacatecas state? There's a small city, Atlixco, about 85,000, that's 20 minutes from Puebla and is reputed to have the best overall climate in Mexico. Most of the year highs are in the 70's to low 80's, lows in the mid-40's to mid-50's. 

If you don't mind my asking how does Zacatecas compare with the rest of central Mexico cost wise?


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## citlali

Yes temperatures do not tell the whole story, I guaranty you that you feel a whole colder in San Cristobal than In Ajijic when it is 40..San Cristobal damp weather is not pleasant. The colder temperature are ok as they are crisp and envigorating but the damp grey weather in the 40´s is cold. The winds blowing from the north can be pretty cold as well.
This year we had temperature in the 80´s in March and April but also hail storms. One interesting thing at that altitude is that the sun burns you if you walk on the sunny side of the street and you will feel cold if you walk on the shady side of the street.
You can easily have two or three types of climate within the same day..you just never know what is the weather going to do from one hour to the other.


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## HolyMole

Longford said:


> Zihuatanejo IS a beach town/city. Not just "near" the beach, but smack, dab on the beach. It exists because it's a beach city.


Not quite correct. Zihua was a sleepy little fishing town that mushroomed when Fonatur decided, sometime during the late 60's or early 70's, that Ixtapa, (along with Cancun) would be the next destination beach resorts. The only place within miles that had even rudimentary services was Zihua. Since then, it has grown primarily as a service centre for Ixtapa, and place of residence for the hundreds of workers first constructing Ixtapa's hotels, then servicing them. 
As for being "smack dab on the beach", that's a little misleading, since the Playa Principal is used almost exclusively by visiting Mexican national tourists....most of locals wouldn't use it, and none of the foreign tourists do either.
The next nearest beaches are Playa Madera and Playa La Ropa, both used by locals as well as Mexican tourists, with La Ropa being favoured by most foreign tourists. La Ropa is a 10 minute bus ride from Centro.
Zihua, to my knowledge, has never been known as a "party town"....the "spring breakers" from up north don't seem to want to travel that far south.
Ixtapa and Zihua are only 8 or 10 km apart, but worlds apart in other ways. Most long-time visitors to Zihua seldom bother going over to Ixtapa, and many of the "all-inclusive" crowd who favour Ixtapa don't spend a lot of time in Zihua....until they've been around long enough to recognize which spot has the more charm, is more "authentically Mexican", has the better deals on good restaurants, etc., etc.


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## gudgrief

vantexan said:


> Are you the man who has the blog on living in Zacatecas? Very good blog. Would Jerez be a reasonable alternative if you wanted to stay in Zacatecas state? There's a small city, Atlixco, about 85,000, that's 20 minutes from Puebla and is reputed to have the best overall climate in Mexico. Most of the year highs are in the 70's to low 80's, lows in the mid-40's to mid-50's.
> 
> If you don't mind my asking how does Zacatecas compare with the rest of central Mexico cost wise?


I am the guy that has the Zacatecas blog.
I don't know about all of central Mexico. I find the cost of living quite reasonable. $1,000/mo. gets me a nice 2 bedroom apartment, electric, gas, Dish TV, Telmex Internet package, taking the laundry to was and fold, a lady to come in and clean once a week, eating out a lot and a food at home budget that I don't need to scrimp.

I don't know about Jerez being an alternative. I went to look at a house for rent in Sept. 2008 and just walking a couple of blocks to see what the neighborhood was like felt like I was in an oven.

I hadn't thought about the Puebla area. On Wunderground, it's temperature profile is close to ideal for me. It's about 1100' lower than Zacatecas' 8000'. That's enough difference to notice.

It sounds like it's worth checking out.

Can you get around without a car? I don't need one here.
What would the monthly nut be like renting a spacious nicely furnished apartment?
How's the medical care? IMSS and Seguro Popular?

Thanks for your response. It certainly looks like a possibility.


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## citlali

I had a friend who lived in Jerez and he never talked about the heat but he sure talked about the bitter cold and towards the end of his life he was looking for a warmer place in the winter.


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## vantexan

gudgrief said:


> I am the guy that has the Zacatecas blog.
> I don't know about all of central Mexico. I find the cost of living quite reasonable. $1,000/mo. gets me a nice 2 bedroom apartment, electric, gas, Dish TV, Telmex Internet package, taking the laundry to was and fold, a lady to come in and clean once a week, eating out a lot and a food at home budget that I don't need to scrimp.
> 
> I don't know about Jerez being an alternative. I went to look at a house for rent in Sept. 2008 and just walking a couple of blocks to see what the neighborhood was like felt like I was in an oven.
> 
> I hadn't thought about the Puebla area. On Wunderground, it's temperature profile is close to ideal for me. It's about 1100' lower than Zacatecas' 8000'. That's enough difference to notice.
> 
> It sounds like it's worth checking out.
> 
> Can you get around without a car? I don't need one here.
> What would the monthly nut be like renting a spacious nicely furnished apartment?
> How's the medical care? IMSS and Seguro Popular?
> 
> Thanks for your response. It certainly looks like a possibility.


I'm not actually in the Puebla area, still researching from the States. Puebla is very prosperous, would have everything you'd want or need. I do know that they have direct busses to Mexico City's airport nonstop from their very large central bus station. There's a suburb, Cholula, which has one of the country's most highly regarded universities. From what I've read it's very walkable. It's right up against Puebla, which is a very large city. Can't imagine it not having a good bus system, and the centro is very popular with tourists. Wish I could tell you more and greatly appreciate the info on Zacatecas.


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## gudgrief

vantexan said:


> I'm not actually in the Puebla area, still researching from the States. Puebla is very prosperous, would have everything you'd want or need. I do know that they have direct busses to Mexico City's airport nonstop from their very large central bus station. There's a suburb, Cholula, which has one of the country's most highly regarded universities. From what I've read it's very walkable. It's right up against Puebla, which is a very large city. Can't imagine it not having a good bus system, and the centro is very popular with tourists. Wish I could tell you more and greatly appreciate the info on Zacatecas.


I do know Puebla. GM and VW both have big plants there. It's just that I hadn't thought about going that far south. I'll just have to ask around and see if anyone has family there.

Thanks and have a good one.


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## johnmex

GM doesn't have a plant in Puebla. Only VW, Audi is currently building one also. GM has plants in Toluca, Silao and Ramos Arizpe/Saltillo.


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## gudgrief

johnmex said:


> GM doesn't have a plant in Puebla. Only VW, Audi is currently building one also. GM has plants in Toluca, Silao and Ramos Arizpe/Saltillo.


Sorry, you are correct. I was thinking of Toluca and it came out Puebla. Getting old, I guess.


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## citlali

Cholula is an independent city not a burb, actually it was there before Puebla existed.


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## gwizzzzz

Take a look at Todos santos small enough to know everyone, artistic community, all the basics but only 45 minutes from La Paz on a decent highway. Climate is great cooled y the reeze off the Pacific.


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## vantexan

citlali said:


> Cholula is an independent city not a burb, actually it was there before Puebla existed.


Suburbs are independent cities. Look at the Dallas/Ft.Worth metro area. Lots of smaller cities up against the big ones. Those are the suburbs. And Cholula has the remains of the world's biggest pyramid I believe. The Cholulans had planned an attack on Cortes but he was alerted by the Tlaxcalans. Cholula was leveled, and the Tlaxcalans were pretty much left alone.


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## vantexan

gwizzzzz said:


> Take a look at Todos santos small enough to know everyone, artistic community, all the basics but only 45 minutes from La Paz on a decent highway. Climate is great cooled y the reeze off the Pacific.


I have considered it but Baja's costs are out of my range. Sounds like a nice place though.


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## citlali

Sorry but the idea of comparing Dallas /Fort Worth with Puebla Cholula is pretty funny. 
The two cities Puebla and Cholula are very different to this day they are both surrounded by burbs and most of them pretty ugly burbs where the traffic is awful. 
I guess you have to be there to appreciate the differences.


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## vantexan

citlali said:


> Sorry but the idea of comparing Dallas /Fort Worth with Puebla Cholula is pretty funny.
> The two cities Puebla and Cholula are very different to this day they are both surrounded by burbs and most of them pretty ugly burbs where the traffic is awful.
> I guess you have to be there to appreciate the differences.


No, not comparing them, just pointing out that a suburb is an independent city. I think you were thinking neighborhood when I called Cholula a suburb of Puebla. Generally speaking in a metro area you have the main city and surrounding cities, or suburbs, that are part of the main city's market area.


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## gudgrief

citlali said:


> Sorry but the idea of comparing Dallas /Fort Worth with Puebla Cholula is pretty funny.
> The two cities Puebla and Cholula are very different to this day they are both surrounded by burbs and most of them pretty ugly burbs where the traffic is awful.
> I guess you have to be there to appreciate the differences.


Just to put my two cents in:
In Mexico there are Municipios and Localidades within a state.
Municipios are more like counties even though the primary urban area has the same name as the Municipio.

Zacatecas is not only the capital city of the state of Zacatecas, there several towns, settlements and "ranchos" that are part of the Municipio of Zacatecas but not part of the capital city. You can find the list here along with maps - Localidades de Zacatecas (Zacatecas, México).

Within the capital city Zacatecas there many colonias, some as far as 2 to 3 miles from the Plaza de Armas which is the center of the colonial city.

To make matters worse there is another municipio, Guadalupe which has the center of its capital city only 5 miles from the center of Zacatecas.

The main highway Mexico 45 going east from the center of Zacatecas towards Guadalupe is bordered by some very luxurious and not so luxurious colonias on both sides to a depth of up to 2 miles belonging to both municipios.

To make matters even worse, Mexico 45 going west from Zacatecas passes a new mall and government and conference center that is attracting new hotels, businesses and fraccionamientos and extends 4mi. to where it turns north to Saltillo along the way passing several localidades.

So what's a suburb? A colonia some distance from the center of the city, a localidad or parts of a nearby municipio or localidad?

We, some of us here in the Centro Historico of Zacatecas think of the colonias bordering Mexico 45 as suburbs being less densely populated than the center of Zacatecas.

Perhaps it's not a clear enough to get excited over.


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## citlali

Exactly so why do we have to hear about the US structure when talking about a couple of Mexican cities whose history go a whole lot further back than Dallas /Fort Worth .
The two cities are in two differnt municipalities.


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## gudgrief

citlali said:


> Exactly so why do we have to hear about the US structure when talking about a couple of Mexican cities whose history go a whole lot further back than Dallas /Fort Worth .
> The two cities are in two differnt municipalities.


Two different municipalities should settle it.


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## trinitysaves

*community*



GARYJ65 said:


> I would like you to come to San Juan del Río, Queretaro, if you do come, let's meet for a coffee or beer, very interesting place!


Well, I am going back to the Puerto Vallarta area, hopefully driving if my bf (from Tepic) gets the ok from the US otherwise I will be flying. I love it in Mexico, the people are great. Don't need to be in that area but that is where the bf works. Are there jobs for nationals where you are? He has many hats from concrete, construction to restaurants cooking and serving. Is it inexpensive to live there? If you would like to tell me more about the place I would like that. Before I went to PV for a vacation I thought about Chapalla but have discovered since that the elevation is too much for me. I am much better at sea level!

If my bf didn't need to work I would, in a heart beat, move to Mexico full time if I could get healthcare. He can make more money here in Canada for 6 months than he can for several years down there so it is better for him to come back here for a few years and work so we can save up some more money. He needs to work 5 days a week in Mexico too so he feels like he is contributing which is fine by me. So we will need to get him a visa/job next spring it would appear lol  I don't like being here without him.

I also agree with what is written here, I like blending in but also feel that it is necessary to be a part of an expat community too so as to fend off those isolation, I miss home feelings. I am learning to speak Spanish and my bf is learning to speak better english (he is better at english than I am spanish)


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## vantexan

citlali said:


> Exactly so why do we have to hear about the US structure when talking about a couple of Mexican cities whose history go a whole lot further back than Dallas /Fort Worth .
> The two cities are in two differnt municipalities.


I very innocently mentioned Cholula as a suburb of Puebla, thinking GudGrief might find it an interesting area to check out, unaware that he was already familiar with the area. Was not trying to get into any hassle with anyone, you brought it up. I only mentioned DFW to illustrate my point about suburbs being independent cities. GudGrief pointed out that in Mexico it's not as clear cut as that, very good info. Was not trying to compare anything, or state that things are better in the U.S., or any of a million reasons that seem to set people off on this forum. But at any rate I'm glad I started this thread because the info about Zacatecas is exactly what I was hoping to find, and the cold air will be fine with me.


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## citlali

I am glad you got some good information Zacatecas is a beautiful city . I do not mind the cold air either, I will take it over hot any day. I did not mean to jump you , I have no dog in that hunt, actually when I go toPuebla I stay with friends who have their front door in Puebla and the rest of the house in Chollula so they live on the outskirts of both they get their water and electricity from puebla and pay their realestate taxes to Cholula.
When you live down here it gets tiring to constantly hear about the States since this is not where we are living and things are different.


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## mexine

*an alternative*



vantexan said:


> I'm not against having other gringos around, but anywhere there are large numbers the places are pretty expensive. Not looking for someone's secret "paradise" either. Just curious about "second tier" locations that attract a fair number of foreigners without being overrun by them and jacking up prices. Enough of a population suggests, to me at least, that that town is enjoyable, and accepting of foreigners. Sayulita seems to have such a population, but I'm not really a beach person and it's geared towards partying it seems. Alamos, Sonora is a bit remote, and too hot much of the year. Was wondering about Bernal, the town with the huge monolith behind it. I'm looking for a mostly spring like climate, mountain scenery, popular with Mexicans for weekend visits and thus a fair amount of restaurants for it's size. Preferably good local produce markets. Looks like, if I stay in Mexico, I'll either try Oaxaca State or Chiapas. My fiancée wants something a bit exotic with a nice climate. We may head to Peru.


Vantexan,
Your description of a "spring-like climate, mountain scenery, popular with Mexicans for weekends visits and thus a fair amount of restaurants" perfectly sums up Tequisquiapan, if you ask me. My wife and I built a home there last year and are now counting the days to retirement when we can spend 6 months or more at a time down there. Currently we're back at work in San Francisco. I'm happy to chat about it with you if you have specific questions. Tequis (for short) is at roughly 6,200' altitude so while there can be a (dry) heat as high as the 90's at times, it cools off every night to the 50's or so. Winter is cooler, of course, but it never snows and the days are full of sunshine and are quite balmy. It's been a tourist destination for many years with folks from el D.F. looking for a taste of small-town Mexico filling the streets every weekend. Some may find that a drawback but I like people-watching and frankly am pleased to live in a town that many people consider worth visiting as a special treat. There are good restaurants for sure and any number of other things that make it attractive. Finally, while there are some expats, I don't see that many as a rule, which, according to your taste and expectations can either be a plus or a minus. me, I moved here to integrate with the local culture, not to bring the U.S. with me and spend all my time speaking English. There's nothing wrong with that but it's more rewarding - for me - to learn new things on an almost daily basis.

Cheers,
Mexine


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## Yellow Rose

Must agree with GARYJ65 - San Juan del Rio is a great place to be in Mexico. We will be relocating from Texas to San Juan del Rio, hopefully in next 6 months, have been to the area to check out things, everyone may be surprised to know that there is a Sam's Club, Home Depot and Wal-Mart there if you crave U.S. necessities. There is also a Costco in the city of Queretaro, about 30 to 45 min from San Juan del Rio. 

We will be living in a gated community, but surprisingly enough most of the people there are Mexican (I am from Mexico City originally, my husband from Texas). We are looking forward to making friends with expats and Mexican folks alike when we arrive!! 

Tequisquiapan is also a very quaint, colonial town, I've heard there are more expats there, maybe not huge colonies... but also more expensive and touristy. As far as I know all the areas are extremely safe... I have a couple of friends from Mexico City who have weekend homes there and they rave about the area -- and yes, very clean too!!


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## Yellow Rose

Mexine -- I think it's so great that you moved to Tequis to integrate with the culture, that's what it's all about!!! 

Perhaps when we move to San Juan del Rio we could connect and have some coffee.


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## GARYJ65

Yellow Rose said:


> Must agree with GARYJ65 - San Juan del Rio is a great place to be in Mexico. We will be relocating from Texas to San Juan del Rio, hopefully in next 6 months, have been to the area to check out things, everyone may be surprised to know that there is a Sam's Club, Home Depot and Wal-Mart there if you crave U.S. necessities. There is also a Costco in the city of Queretaro, about 30 to 45 min from San Juan del Rio.
> 
> We will be living in a gated community, but surprisingly enough most of the people there are Mexican (I am from Mexico City originally, my husband from Texas). We are looking forward to making friends with expats and Mexican folks alike when we arrive!!
> 
> Tequisquiapan is also a very quaint, colonial town, I've heard there are more expats there, maybe not huge colonies... but also more expensive and touristy. As far as I know all the areas are extremely safe... I have a couple of friends from Mexico City who have weekend homes there and they rave about the area -- and yes, very clean too!!


I will be very glad to meet with you when you arrive!
And we have a Liverpool store now!


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## Yellow Rose

Hi There! just sharing with you that Bernal, although a beautiful colonial little place, is a very small town (at least for me), some of the restaurants and stores might not even be open during the week as the "action" starts on Friday -- I did not notice any of the grocery stores like Soriana, Comercial Mexicana or Bodegas Aurrera -- might have to go to San Juan del Rio for that. 

As suggested by other expats already living in the State of Queretaro... Tequisquiapan is worth it, San Juan del Rio too. The city of Queretaro has over 2 million population and has just about everything you can think of, including lots of traffic. 

We will be relocating to San Juan del Rio (hopefully in 6 months or so) - if you decide to end up in that area maybe we can connect and have some coffee. 

take care and good luck in your search!

P.S.: I would not strongly recommend the state of Michoacán due to safety issues.


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## Marishka

Tequisquiapan sounds very nice! Is it a walkable town with good public transportation, or is it necessary to have a car there?

Here's an article I read yesterday about the downside of living in an expat enclave:
Retirees in Mexico cut off, study says


> O'Brien says the expats in the community he studied had essentially recreated a North American lifestyle in one small corner of the Yucatan. "They are living exactly the same life they'd live at home, but in a different location," he says. Most "absolutely love" the life, but his study showed some problems.
> 
> The first, he says, is that the expat community is negatively affecting the local population "even though they don't notice it themselves." For example, he said the expats often make no attempt to learn Spanish, and expect to be dealt with in English. And their relationships with the locals are based on service, not friendship. As a result, says O'Brien, the expats' relationship to the locals is often condescending.
> 
> He also explains that expats have surprisingly little contact with their families back home. "It's kind of shocking," he says, adding that most people he talked to report that missing family members is the most difficult part of living abroad. Part of that may be due the fact that the community he studied was not on the tourist circuit, and therefore not as easy to get to as some of the cities or resorts.


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## GARYJ65

Marishka said:


> Tequisquiapan sounds very nice! Is it a walkable town with good public transportation, or is it necessary to have a car there?
> 
> Here's an article I read yesterday about the downside of living in an expat enclave:
> Retirees in Mexico cut off, study says


What can I tell you? My Mother lives here as well and she does not have a car, she does well.
I could not do without a vehicle, it's all about where you go and how you want to get there

In any case, San Juan del Rio is a very nice place to live in


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## gudgrief

*Ocotlan, Jalisco*

I'm looking for a place at a lower altitude than Zacatecas, Zac. A friend recommended Ocotlan, Jalisco which I understand is located in the Northeast corner of Lake Chapala. Is anyone familiar with the city? Does it have an up to date infrastructure? Internet and satellite/cable? Is it a place where you can get around without a car? Is there decent bus service to and from Gudalajara. Is it possible to rent a decent one or two bedroom furnished apartment or house for less than $400US a month?

Thanks for any info you can supply.


----------



## Longford

gudgrief said:


> I'm looking for a place at a lower altitude than Zacatecas, Zac. A friend recommended Ocotlan, Jalisco which I understand is located in the Northeast corner of Lake Chapala. Is anyone familiar with the city? Does it have an up to date infrastructure? Internet and satellite/cable? Is it a place where you can get around without a car? Is there decent bus service to and from Gudalajara. Is it possible to rent a decent one or two bedroom furnished apartment or house for less than $400US a month?
> 
> Thanks for any info you can supply.


H. Ayuntamiento de Ocotlán

ocotlan, jalisco - Google Maps


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## citlali

It even has a golf course. Ocotlan is a propsperous town with textiles and furniture industry, supermarket hospitals and so on not little hole in the ground. My friend rents a nice two bedroom casita in Ajijic for 500 dollars so I am sure you can find something decent for 400 over there. yes for decent infrastructure and for buses.


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## gudgrief

citlali said:


> It even has a golf course. Ocotlan is a propsperous town with textiles and furniture industry, supermarket hospitals and so on not little hole in the ground. My friend rents a nice two bedroom casita in Ajijic for 500 dollars so I am sure you can find something decent for 400 over there. yes for decent infrastructure and for buses.


Looks like I need to schedule a looksee trip in the near future. Climbing the steep hills in Zac is beginning to get to me and these old bones are beginning feel the altitude. Ocotlan is about 2000' lower and the weather profile shows it's only a little bit warmer and a lot less colder than Zac. thanks for the info.


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## mexine

Marishka said:


> Tequisquiapan sounds very nice! Is it a walkable town with good public transportation, or is it necessary to have a car there?
> 
> Marishka,
> Tequisquiapan is most definitely walkable. We walk everywhere and borrow a neighbor's car only for on occasional out-of-town excursion. The bus system is efficient as well and, finally, all taxis charge the same regardless of distance: 25 pesos. Oh, and it's very safe. We have strolled darkened streets on many late night occasions and never once felt even the slightest reason for fear.


----------



## sparks

gudgrief said:


> I'm looking for a place at a lower altitude than Zacatecas, Zac. A friend recommended Ocotlan, Jalisco which I understand is located in the Northeast corner of Lake Chapala. Is anyone familiar with the city? Does it have an up to date infrastructure? Internet and satellite/cable? Is it a place where you can get around without a car? Is there decent bus service to and from Gudalajara. Is it possible to rent a decent one or two bedroom furnished apartment or house for less than $400US a month?
> 
> Thanks for any info you can supply.


Yes, yes, yes and yes


----------



## gudgrief

Can you give me some information on what bus lines run between Guadalajara and Ocotlan? Do they run from the main bus terminal? I pulled up something from a Google search mentioning a Vieja Central de Autobuses.

Thanks


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## RVGRINGO

That is the bus station in Guadalajara, Calle Los Angeles, and very near a Walmart, etc. Guadalajara Centro is a 15 minute walk or an easy taxi ride. You can make connections to almost anywhere in Jalisco at that bus station, where many bus lines are represented.


----------



## sparks

gudgrief said:


> Can you give me some information on what bus lines run between Guadalajara and Ocotlan? Do they run from the main bus terminal? I pulled up something from a Google search mentioning a Vieja Central de Autobuses.
> 
> Thanks


The old bus station is downtown and services most nearby towns. The new bus station is for longer distances and other states


----------



## gudgrief

RVGRINGO said:


> That is the bus station in Guadalajara, Calle Los Angeles, and very near a Walmart, etc. Guadalajara Centro is a 15 minute walk or an easy taxi ride. You can make connections to almost anywhere in Jalisco at that bus station, where many bus lines are represented.


Thanks.

I've been through the humongous new bus station in Tlaquepaque many times.

I brought up Calle Los Angeles in Google Maps and located Antigua Central Camionera, cerca de Los Angeles.

Coming from Zacatecas, I guess I can't get a direct bus to la Antigua Central Camionera. There must be a local bus from the station in Tlaquepaque.


----------



## gudgrief

sparks said:


> The old bus station is downtown and services most nearby towns. The new bus station is for longer distances and other states


Thanks.
RVGRINGO helped too with the name and location.


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## RVGRINGO

Feom Zacatecas, you will arrive in the New bus station, actually in Tonala (it is not in Tlaquepaque) and is the destination station for the Guadalajra Metro Area for buses from out of state. From there, you can take a local bus or a taxi to Camionera Vieja to find buses for anywhere in Jalisco. Yes, it is near Calle Los Angeles in Guadalajara proper. A taxi would be the easiest method.


----------



## Marishka

mexine said:


> Marishka,
> Tequisquiapan is most definitely walkable. We walk everywhere and borrow a neighbor's car only for on occasional out-of-town excursion. The bus system is efficient as well and, finally, all taxis charge the same regardless of distance: 25 pesos. Oh, and it's very safe. We have strolled darkened streets on many late night occasions and never once felt even the slightest reason for fear.


Thank you so much for this info! Safe and walkable with good public transportation is a winning combination, and it looks like a charming colonial town. I did a little research on Tequisquiapan after I read your posts and I think that it's a place we'll want to include during one of our exploratory trips. 

I have to admit that one reason I like Tequisquiapan and Tlaquepaque is because the names are so much fun to say.:lol:


----------



## Isla Verde

Marishka said:


> I have to admit that one reason I like Tequisquiapan and Tlaquepaque is because the names are so much fun to say.:lol:


With a positive attitude like that, you should do very well in Mexico!


----------



## Marishka

Isla Verde said:


> With a positive attitude like that, you should do very well in Mexico!


Oh, I do hope you're right, Isla! :fingerscrossed: I'm going to give it the old college try, anyway. We're still 2 1/2 years away from retirement, but I'm really looking forward to our adventures in Mexico. I'm like a kid bouncing up and down on the back seat of the car. "Are we there yet?"


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## mzdaisy

All I know about Zacatecas is the long trip from Monterrey to Zacatecas is quite boring. From Saltillo to Zacatecas was just wide open space with nothing on it. No, farms, no animals, just land. I did not like the food transition. The meat doesn't taste the same the tortillas and they only had Corona beer!

Still, I am so jealous you are in Mexico and I am not!


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## gudgrief

mzdaisy said:


> All I know about Zacatecas is the long trip from Monterrey to Zacatecas is quite boring. From Saltillo to Zacatecas was just wide open space with nothing on it. No, farms, no animals, just land. I did not like the food transition. The meat doesn't taste the same the tortillas and they only had Corona beer!
> 
> Still, I am so jealous you are in Mexico and I am not!


It's an even longer way from McAllen, TX and between Reynosa and Monterrey about as barren as Saltillo-Zacatecas.

My solution is to take the bus round trip. My doc here gave me a prescription for Alprazolam. I get on the bus around 9PM, take a 1mg. pill and sleep till the outskirts of Reynosa arriving around 7AM. Going back, the bus leaves Reynosa at 7PM and arrives in Zacatecas around 4AM. I take my pill around 8PM and sleep through. I drove Monterrey-Zacatecas round trip in May 2008. Too tiresome at my age.

Only Corona? I find Bohemia, Superior, Leon, Indio, Dos Equis, even Bud at many locations. There's a place, I think, that claims to have over 100 brands.


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## mzdaisy

I don't drive anymore when I go there either, the bus is always the best way to travel in Mexico. I was in Loreto Aguascalientes right by Zacatecas. They only sold Corona in Loreto. I am sure if you are close to a walmart you may be able to get a better selection.


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## lagoloo

....In praise of the "expat enclaves" at the Lake Chapala area: 
Here are ten, to start:
(1)Mild year around weather, never freezing or burning hot, 
(2)no hurricanes, floods, tsunamis, or tornadoes 
(3)Hour or less drive to an international airport and world class medical facilities, shopping and entertainment in Guadalajara. Many professional "drivers" available to take you there.
(4)No pressure to join any particular group of ******-oriented activities, but plenty of variety in case you want to socialize and/or pursue an interest or sport. 
(5) local organic and regular markets; a manage-ably sized tiangus and (alas) even a Walmart as well as several specialty import stores.
(6) Many different types of restaurants, from street tacos to special occasion fancy ones
(7) Every kind of service you might need without leaving the area.
(8) Reasonable rentals. Lots of choices.
(9) Really fine doctors and dentists in town. Some even make house calls. A local clinic and Cruz Roja.
(10) A generous spattering of cranks and fools along with some likable expats with good manners.

....but if you really don't want or need those amenities, I hope you find your dream town. Chuckle.


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## mzdaisy

I have heard so much about Lake Chapala and imagine I could walk anywhere and find Americans around. In the 7 years I spent in Monterrey, I only met one American. I really wished I had more American connections when I lived there. I am in the states now and I miss Mexico profoundly. I am coming back as soon as I get the money up again!


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## Isla Verde

mzdaisy said:


> I have heard so much about Lake Chapala and imagine I could walk anywhere and find Americans around. In the 7 years I spent in Monterrey, I only met one American. I really wished I had more American connections when I lived there. I am in the states now and I miss Mexico profoundly. I am coming back as soon as I get the money up again!


Have you ever thought of becoming certified to teach English in Mexico? You won't make a fortune, but you would be able to support yourself on your earnings.


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## TigerFox

elchante said:


> Don't totally rule out the Lake Chapala area. Just depends where around the lake you live. I live in Jocotepec (town) and there are really not that many gringos here. But there are areas even in Joco municipality (county) which are loaded with gringos. Just depends on where you live.
> 
> Personally, I would definitely consider Sahuayo and Zamora, Michoacan, as good places to live where you can find gringos, but you'd have to look around for a while to find them. And any of the villages on the south shore of Lake Chapala would put you within easy distance of other gringos while having very few in your own community.


I see this was posted quite a bit earlier in the year, however, I thought I would reply anyway. We just got back from Ajijic. We ran out of time and didn't make it to Jocotepec. As you live there, would you mind sharing why you chose it and what you like about it? How long have you been there? Is it just like Chapala? I was only in Chapala one afternoon, and it seemed a bit rough.


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## lagoloo

Ajijic is where I live. I prefer it to the rest of the lakeside towns. Some parts of Ajijic are rough and some are tame. Chapala is, of course, a much larger town and has larger "rough spots".
Best to just visit and decide for yourself.


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## RickS

lagoloo said:


> Ajijic is where I live. I prefer it to the rest of the lakeside towns. Some parts of Ajijic are rough and some are tame. Chapala is, of course, a much larger town and has larger "rough spots".
> Best to just visit and decide for yourself.


It would probably be valuable to define 'rough spots'. 

While I don't live at Lakeside, I have been coming here for 15 years... sometimes for a few weeks sometimes for a few months. Over that period of time I have walked every street in Ajijic (many times), most streets in Chapala and some streets in Jocotopec. I have never felt like I should 'not be there'! 

Of course some neighborhoods have very nice homes, some have a mixture and some are truly a barrio. Some I won't walk in at night but that also doesn't mean that danger is imminent at all times but rather I don't feel like "I" fit in at that time.

Anyway, I think Chapala is a nice town as is Jocotopec. Neither have as many ****** inhabitants as Ajijic but in my book that doesn't make then 'rough'. YMMV


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## Isla Verde

TigerFox said:


> I see this was posted quite a bit earlier in the year, however, I thought I would reply anyway. We just got back from Ajijic. We ran out of time and didn't make it to Jocotepec. As you live there, would you mind sharing why you chose it and what you like about it? How long have you been there? Is it just like Chapala? I was only in Chapala one afternoon, and it seemed a bit rough.


I spent a week in Chapala recently didn't find it "rough" at all, except for the super-bumpy cobblestoned streets! It seemed to me to be a pleasant, albeit not very exciting, typical Mexican town. But, then I've lived in Mexico for over six years, so what seems pleasant to me might seem rough to a newcomer.


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## citlali

For people who have not or do not think Chapala or Ajijic have rough spots just go the the hill behind Banamex at midnight. We took a woman who had been gang raped by the cemetary in Ajiic back to her house on top of that hill at 11 o clock at night and I can tell you thee are rough spots in Chapala and Ajijic as well. Most people just do not go there at night but there is no reason to go there and you do not have to go through them to go anywhere.


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## citlali

By the way my neighbor is from Sahuayo, she tought school there for 40 years and she tells me the place is becoming dangerous.


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## Isla Verde

citlali said:


> For people who have not or do not think Chapala or Ajijic have rough spots just go the the hill behind Banamex at midnight. We took a woman who had been gang raped by the cemetary in Ajiic back to her house on top of that hill at 11 o clock at night and I can tell you thee are rough spots in Chapala and Ajijic as well. Most people just do not go there at night but there is no reason to go there and you do not have to go through them to go anywhere.


It looks like I missed the "rough parts" of Chapala and Ajijic while I was there, _gracias a Dios_.


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## sunnyinvallarta

*San Juan del Rio*

Have you moved to San Juan del Rio? I just saw your posting. Am looking at venturing around that area in a year and would prefer to see some of the smaller towns, not just touristy places! Would love to hear about this city/town.


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## RickS

Well said, citlali. But name me a 'place' on earth that does not have some dangerous spots depending on when/what time and what circumstances they visit.


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## Isla Verde

sunnyinvallarta said:


> Have you moved to San Juan del Rio? I just saw your posting. Am looking at venturing around that area in a year and would prefer to see some of the smaller towns, not just touristy places! Would love to hear about this city/town.


To whom is this post addressed? Not to me, I don't think.


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## sunnyinvallarta

Sorry, was reading from "Yellow Rose" was an old posting of theirs, apparently I do not know how to reply or respond directly to an old posting! Help!


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## Isla Verde

sunnyinvallarta said:


> Sorry, was reading from "Yellow Rose" was an old posting of theirs, apparently I do not know how to reply or respond directly to an old posting! Help!


Find the old post you want to respond to and click on "Reply with Quote" in one of the green rectangles at the bottom of Yellow Rose's post. You could also send Yellow Rose a PM.


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## citlali

Ricks S

I could name a lot of places where it is a whole lot safer than here and where there are no rough spots. Actually when I went back to France last year I was with a Mexican kid who could not believe he could walk around town and the woods at night all by himself and go for walks at any time of the day or night. He loved it and now wants to study in Europe..

One night we went to visit a castle by candlelight and returned to Paris at 1 am. My brother in law stopped in this totallly deserted area to buy gas. No attendant, actually nobody was there. My husband and I got immediately nervous while my sister and family were totally fine stopping there in the middle of the night. 
There are lots of places in the world a whole lot safer than Mexico. This said I do not care I live here and I take the bad with the good.


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## RickS

_*"There are lots of places in the world a whole lot safer than Mexico. "*_

Couldn't agree more. But my point was that almost everywhere, there are some places that one just doesn't want to go. I probably live in one of them.... Fort Collins Colorado... but occasionally someone will get murdered or raped or both, even there. Mecca it is, perfectly free of crime it is not!


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## citlali

true but unfortunately it happens a whole lot more than once in a while here....


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## GARYJ65

citlali said:


> Ricks S I could name a lot of places where it is a whole lot safer than here and where there are no rough spots. Actually when I went back to France last year I was with a Mexican kid who could not believe he could walk around town and the woods at night all by himself and go for walks at any time of the day or night. He loved it and now wants to study in Europe.. One night we went to visit a castle by candlelight and returned to Paris at 1 am. My brother in law stopped in this totallly deserted area to buy gas. No attendant, actually nobody was there. My husband and I got immediately nervous while my sister and family were totally fine stopping there in the middle of the night. There are lots of places in the world a whole lot safer than Mexico. This said I do not care I live here and I take the bad with the good.


You mean to say that in France there are no crime??


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## citlali

There is none where my mother lives, now if you want crime just go to Marseille and you will get plenty.


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## GARYJ65

citlali said:


> There is none where my mother lives, now if you want crime just go to Marseille and you will get plenty.


Wow!
I don't think I've ever been in a zero crime place


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## vantexan

GARYJ65 said:


> Wow!
> I don't think I've ever been in a zero crime place


My concern would be violent crime. There's a small city in Jalisco, don't remember the name, that is a major pilgrimage site that apparently hasn't had a murder, or just one, in the last ten years. Someone posted on some forum that it was the safest city in Mexico.


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## vantexan

vantexan said:


> My concern would be violent crime. There's a small city in Jalisco, don't remember the name, that is a major pilgrimage site that apparently hasn't had a murder, or just one, in the last ten years. Someone posted on some forum that it was the safest city in Mexico.


I believe it's San Juan de Los Lagos. Looks like a nice place on Google Images.


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## citlali

Gary 

I am speaking of murder not theft or others. It is hard to remember the last crime , acually I do not know of one but I am sure there must have been one in the last 20 years or so.
Last May we really enjoyed the peace and quiet for a week or so but I just could not live in such a quiet place, it would drive me crazy so security is not everything.


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## Isla Verde

citlali said:


> Gary
> 
> I am speaking of murder not theft or others. It is hard to remember the last crime , acually I do not know of one but I am sure there must have been one in the last 20 years or so.
> Last May we really enjoyed the peace and quiet for a week or so but I just could not live in such a quiet place, it would drive me crazy so security is not everything.


I would imagine that most super-safe places would also be super-dull, at least after a week's stay. I prefer to live in an interesting place and just avoid its dangerous areas-


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## vantexan

Isla Verde said:


> I would imagine that most super-safe places would also be super-dull, at least after a week's stay. I prefer to live in an interesting place and just avoid its dangerous areas-



El Paso consistently ranks as one of the safest big cities in the U.S.. It's not New York, but it's not dull either.


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## Isla Verde

vantexan said:


> El Paso consistently ranks as one of the safest big cities in the U.S.. It's not New York, but it's not dull either.


I wasn't speaking of relatively safe big cities but rather super-safe small places when I made my comment about being dull. Since I've never been to El Paso, I'll take your word for it that it's an interesting city.


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## Hound Dog

My mother lives in an ancient village surrounded by beautiful villages in the Loire Valley. The place is a dream place to visit. There are lots of cultural activites around lots of beautiful places to visit, great cuisine, but I did all that when I was a kid. Life there is very quiet , very conservative and everyone is expected to behave he same way. At 67 I am way to young for that, actually I may never be old enough to ever live there....

Citlali


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## citlali

sorry typo "way TOO young"


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