# Is Spain (Villa Martin, Murcia) a safe place to live with kids?



## Sweetpea68 (Mar 15, 2016)

Hi. Have been toying with the idea of moving to Spain with our 10 & 12 year old sons. Have found a school we are interested in and were not dependant on work to survive. My in-laws have been looking at this area to buy with a view to renting out until they retire. I have done some research on-line and a little bit concerned about possible crime etc on expats and wondered how save people felt in this area? How locals feel about the British? And if anyone has their children in any international schools in this area? And the quality of life in general. Positive and negative feedback appreciated. This is a big move and want to make sure it's right for our kids. Thanks


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

We don't live in that area - further south and along a bit - but for us Spain is far safer for kids than where we lived in UK. That isn't to say that there is no crime involving kids, I doubt there is anywhere in the world where that would be the case, but if I say that in UK there is simply no way we would have allowed our 5 year old to play in the local plaza (we didn't really have any plazas so substitute street for that) but here, and it took a while to adapt, we happily let him play while we chat with friends in a local bar. Of course, there are some Spanish who don't like any foreigners living here but we have only met one (he happens to be our neighbour!!) but he is still polite and has to respond to our son who is now fluent in Spanish.


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## Lily91 (Mar 10, 2016)

I moved to Madrid as the mother of a seven years old child. My daughter and me absolutely agree about the fact that Spanish people are way friendlier to children than Germans are. They are attentive and considerate. Spaniards are not that easily annoyed by children in general. 

Of course there are exceptions, but I found that my daughter was better taken care of than in Germany. Her school (I can't say for other school) let her and me feel pretty comfortable about sending her there.

Language barriers still exist (we're in Madrid since January), but all in all, I never experienced prejudges against us here and I love how Spaniards value families!


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## Monkey Hangers (Jan 8, 2009)

I live around 20 mins from there. Have no kids so can't help with that. Villa Martin is a nice area, some areas a little dated, but it's got plenty going for it, shops, bars, restaurants, close enough to the sea. It is heavily populated by Brits and other Europeans, and in the summer, it is very very busy. That part puts me off the area, as I left the UK to get away from the tattoo'd beer bellied yob culture. Just my opinion obviously


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Monkey Hangers said:


> I live around 20 mins from there. Have no kids so can't help with that. Villa Martin is a nice area, some areas a little dated, but it's got plenty going for it, shops, bars, restaurants, close enough to the sea. It is heavily populated by Brits and other Europeans, and in the summer, it is very very busy. That part puts me off the area, as I left the UK to get away from the tattoo'd beer bellied yob culture. Just my opinion obviously


My son went there last year to play golf with a group of mates....presumably it's cheap to play there as he has a house near Estepona with plenty of golf courses around so no idea why he chose to go there...although I suspect it was for a 'lads' weekend' in which case I'm glad I wasn't around.
He hasn't got a tattoo, could be described politely as 'stocky' but from what he said it seemed very much a lads' place, tacky, very Brit burger 'n' chips, nothing wrong with that, sobre los gustos and all that...but it doesn't seem to be the kind of place you'd use the words 'quiet' or 'laid back ' to describe.
But what do I know, that's just a second-hand opinion.
Son and little chums had a great time...


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Plaza or not I would not leave young children unaccompanied anywhere in the world. Only takes one pervert and there are often cases in Sur.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Isobella said:


> Plaza or not I would not leave young children unaccompanied anywhere in the world. Only takes one pervert and there are often cases in Sur.


But he is always in our vision...


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

thrax said:


> But he is always in our vision...


And in everyone else's too. Keeping an eye on the kids seems to be more of a collective responsibility here, you don't only watch your own. In parts of the UK you'd be told to mind your own business if you did that.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Alcalaina said:


> And in everyone else's too. Keeping an eye on the kids seems to be more of a collective responsibility here, you don't only watch your own. In parts of the UK you'd be told to mind your own business if you did that.


True but that assumes that the 'watchers' are aware.
Yesterday, as we were about to walk the dogs, I shut the door with the keys to house and gate inside, in the door....we keep a spare set hidden in the cellar but of course we couldn't open the door because of the key in the lock on the other side. I was about to call a locksmith when Sandra hitched up her skirt, climbed to the first floor balcony like the proverbial mountain goat, gave a kick to the doors - fortunately we hadn't activated the persianas - and got in.
It took less than a minute.
It occurred to me that a burglar could also do this and that a passerby wouldn't know whether he were a workman or a friend/relative who was getting in to help because we or he had left the keys inside.
The point I'm making is that 'outsiders' don't have the information to know who may be allowed to take a child or 'break in' to a house. If I saw someone entering a house in that way in daylight I'd assume all was well. Ditto if someone walked off with an unresisting child.
'Collective responsibility' if it works at all only works in situations of close familiarity.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Pondering over this 'collective responsibility' thing....I think in many respects it's a dodgy concept.
As I'm sure thrax would be the first to agree, supervision and care of children is first and foremost a parent's responsibility.
'Collective responsibility' is all too often an excuse for individual irresponsibility. We're told a lot these days that all kinds of problems are 'society's responsibility'. I'm not denying that some problems require collective solutions - healthcare, education, care of those unable to care for themselves or have no family - but many things should be the responsibility of the individual.
I thought Joan Bakewell's comments about anorexia were harsh but 99% true and I fail to see why the state aka the taxpayer should provide for single parents who like a friend's daughter who has not done a day's work in her life, has one child and expecting another and no stable relationship.
Some people make bad choices with zero forethought safe in the knowledge that they will not have to live with the consequences.

Rant over.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

I totally agree that it must be the parents responsibility and theirs alone to look after their children and that is absolutely the way we do it. All of our Spanish friends do so as well but we are very much aware that their attitude is considerably more relaxed than ours. We have some Swedish friends who let their kids (7 & 11) wander off wherever they want and they often encourage us to let our child go with them. We always refuse and we argue that should anything happen whilst under the care/supervision of a 7 and 11 year old it would never seem appropriate that they had been left in charge. Having said all that, we still find Spain a very safe place for children.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

I have related in other threads about how things are in this village where kids as young as 6 are seen late in the evening (about 10pm) on their way from grandma's to their own home unaccompanied and, seemingly, without supervision. BUT. here, they are not alone. There are people about, if only, like me, walking the dogs, and we all keep an eye on other children, teenagers, adults (especially the elderly or disabled) but this is a traditional village and that is what we do.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

But as they say'who watches the watchers'. Not many years ago a child disappeared at a village fiesta. May have been Ojen? She was found murdered a few hours later. The culprit was a neighbour. Amazingly no one noticed she had left the ferria ground.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Isobella said:


> But as they say'who watches the watchers'. Not many years ago a child disappeared at a village fiesta. May have been Ojen? She was found murdered a few hours later. The culprit was a neighbour. Amazingly no one noticed she had left the ferria ground.


I don't think anyone is saying it doesn't happen; dreadful things happen to children all over the world. But some places seem safer than others. Canada is probably safer than USA. UK is definitely safer than Syria. It has taken us 5 years to realise that Spain is indeed quite safe. But we never let him out of our sight. The UK taught us that and I doubt it will ever leave us. But in the villages where we live everyone knows everyone and we really do feel safer here than where we lived in UK. This is not to say that there are far safer places in UK than where we lived, I am certain there are. We just didn't happen to live in one of them.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> I have related in other threads about how things are in this village where kids as young as 6 are seen late in the evening (about 10pm) on their way from grandma's to their own home unaccompanied and, seemingly, without supervision. BUT. here, they are not alone. There are people about, if only, like me, walking the dogs, and we all keep an eye on other children, teenagers, adults (especially the elderly or disabled) but this is a traditional village and that is what we do.


It's what you like to think you do, Baldy. People often say things like that. I've heard it in Canada, the UK, the CR, all over. As if there were no crime in small places...Your 'village' has a population of almost five thousand. Like any other smallish town in Spain, France or anywhere these days, time hasn't stopped. I doubt very much whether anyone knows everyone and certainly not everyone's children. It will have its share of paedophiles, druggies, all sorts of undesirables. I doubt that anyone has nothing better to do than watch other people's children non-stop. Sad but true.
Many child abductions and murders in England and Wales in the past years have taken place in those 'traditional' villages where 'everyone keeps an eye open for everyone'.
You might find more real neighbourliness these days in an urban block of flats.


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> It's what you like to think you do, Baldy. People often say things like that. I've heard it in Canada, the UK, the CR, all over. As if there were no crime in small places...Your 'village' has a population of almost five thousand. Like any other smallish town in Spain, France or anywhere these days, time hasn't stopped. I doubt very much whether anyone knows everyone and certainly not everyone's children. It will have its share of paedophiles, druggies, all sorts of undesirables. I doubt that anyone has nothing better to do than watch other people's children non-stop. Sad but true.
> Many child abductions and murders in England and Wales in the past years have taken place in those 'traditional' villages where 'everyone keeps an eye open for everyone'.
> You might find more real neighbourliness these days in an urban block of flats.


Sorry but those "traditional" villages in the UK have long gone, because townies decided to move to them and with the mishmash of local authorities following reorganisations shunting undesirables off to parts where the councillors, chief officers and 'posh' people don't go, let alone, live... B&B and all that ...

There has not been the influx of newbies here that is often found in many places elsewhere so most people are known to varying degrees by everybody else and since it is a village with village atmosphere, the busybodies and nosey-parkers ensure that all the info is on the bush-telegraph (they use either personal contact or the telephone these days - can't use the drums anymore since they were tapped and all security was lost!) 

My experience of urban blocks of flats in UK is that nobody knows anybody else, often not even on their own landing; as for on other floors... We lived for a while on the top floor of a 12 storey block with 4 flats per floor and out of the nearly 50 families living there, we knew about 5 and if you didn't *really know* a person, nobody spoke - it was like living in a morgue. 

Here, as you are aware, everyone (except some incomers) speaks, so although you may not be known well, you are observed and mental notes are made such as we are known to always pick up after our dogs, we don't take liberties with the limited on-street parking, we contribute and help with the unofficial charities that exist in the village (the ones that get a load of essentials at the supermarkets and arrange for it to be delivered anonymously to those in need), etc.

As for druggies - we had a couple of dealers but they have been driven out.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

baldilocks said:


> Sorry but those "traditional" villages in the UK have long gone, because townies decided to move to them and with the mishmash of local authorities following reorganisations shunting undesirables off to parts where the councillors, chief officers and 'posh' people don't go, let alone, live... B&B and all that ...
> 
> There has not been the influx of newbies here that is often found in many places elsewhere so most people are known to varying degrees by everybody else and since it is a village with village atmosphere, the busybodies and nosey-parkers ensure that all the info is on the bush-telegraph (they use either personal contact or the telephone these days - can't use the drums anymore since they were tapped and all security was lost!)
> 
> ...


Until I left home aged eighteen to go to University I lived in a state of surveillance the likes of which the Stasi or KGB couldn't have attained. It was, frankly, awful. My grandmother had nine brothers and sisters, they all had children and grandchildren, many of them lived within a mile radius..Great Aunt Bessie and Auntie Hilda lived in the cottage opposite our house, Great Aunt Elsie and her brood Roy, Elsie Jnr lived next door. Everywhere I went, someone had their eye on me, or so it seemed.
When I was a teenager it was specially irksome. I'd get 'reported' for being seen smoking or hanging about with the French boys who used to come for language courses in the summer. I hated it.
But that was then and even then there were perverts and oddballs about. I wasn't allowed to go to the local fleapit cinema on my own because of 'dirty old men'.
I can't imagine there is a place in the western world that hasn't changed. People still look after each other, in our street here we have a 'network' if we need help. That isn't confined to small places either. I found neighbourliness on the North London street when I lived there.
But we were originally talking about children's safety and nowadays as in the past there are perverts and paedophiles lurking everywhere. We are more conscious now because of the media but it's nothing new. The danger isn't always from strangers either.
I don't believe there is a village, town or any community in Spain or anywhere in 2016 where a parent can assume their child is safe because there is 'collective' responsibility.
There was a recent case of a four year old girl abducted from the village green of the small rural Welsh community where she lived. Her parents let her play there because 'everyone kept an eye on the children'. 
Not well enough as she was raped and murdered by a local man.


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## Isobella (Oct 16, 2014)

Yes, and I think he was a friend of the family too. The worse I have heard was the couple in the UK. They baby sat for their friend's thirteen months child. The couple abused her and posted photos online. It is a sick world. Not scaremongering but these things happen anywhere.


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## BAnna (Mar 10, 2016)

Hi my name is Anna ! My husband n our 11yr old wit our small gang of terriers are getting ready to make the move ! I love reading wat u guys write I am always learning! We starting Spanish lesson soon ! I speak Brazilian Portuguese so I wonder if it might help me a bit?


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## stevec2x (Mar 24, 2012)

Sweetpea68 said:


> Hi. Have been toying with the idea of moving to Spain with our 10 & 12 year old sons. Have found a school we are interested in and were not dependant on work to survive. My in-laws have been looking at this area to buy with a view to renting out until they retire. I have done some research on-line and a little bit concerned about possible crime etc on expats and wondered how save people felt in this area? How locals feel about the British? And if anyone has their children in any international schools in this area? And the quality of life in general. Positive and negative feedback appreciated. This is a big move and want to make sure it's right for our kids. Thanks


Hi

If you use Facebook and search for 'orihuela costa buy and sell' and join the group - you will probably get some response from the expats who already live there. (It's a buy and sell site, but lots of people use it just to ask questions).

Steve


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## Galluslass (Mar 27, 2013)

Kids are in much more danger from those close to them and who know them - than from some random stranger lurking behind a bush.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Galluslass said:


> Kids are in much more danger from those close to them and who know them - than from some random stranger lurking behind a bush.


Like women....


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

mrypg9 said:


> Like women....


As in potential girlfriends or wives and if the latter it becomes the battle between her and his mother.


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

My perception was certainly that Spain was a safer environment than the UK for vulnerable people (women and children). For example they could (and did) walk around at night in a way that would be deemed unwise and risky in the UK.

It would be interesting to know whether or not that perception is borne out empirically.

I doubt we can know - these things are difficult to measure.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Galluslass said:


> Kids are in much more danger from those close to them and who know them - than from some random stranger lurking behind a bush.


Have I totally misunderstood your statement or are you seriously saying that my 6 year old son is in the most danger from his mum and dad?


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## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

jimenato said:


> My perception was certainly that Spain was a safer environment than the UK for vulnerable people (women and children). For example they could (and did) walk around at night in a way that would be deemed unwise and risky in the UK.
> 
> It would be interesting to know whether or not that perception is borne out empirically.
> 
> I doubt we can know - these things are difficult to measure.


I think that much depends on where you are. In this village I would say that kids are very much safer because it has a fair proportion of older people who still have that caring for others ethic versus large towns where 'I look after my own, not yours' attitudes are more common.


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## melissaspain (Feb 18, 2016)

Hello,


I am coming from France and live in Murcia, Spain since 1 year and one of the thing I really love about this place is that I really feel safe. I don´t know if Murcia is an exception but people here are really relaxed, friendly and not agressive at all although many people are jobless. I have been walking alone at night and never had a bad experience. The worst thing that happened to me is that someone stole my iphone in a bar because I left it on a chair (I was too busy dancing, so it was my fault). One of my french friend has a son of 13 years old and is going to a very good international school in Murcia. He totally adapted and even asked his mum to switch next year to a spanish school because he wants to get more integreated in the local social life. The quality of life is very nice (i come from Paris), I really enjoy the sun, the beach, montains, the delicous food (good vegetables, fish ...), the social life, and there is a lot of life in the streets of Murcia. I hope this will help you making your decision. 

All the best, Melissa


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## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

thrax said:


> Have I totally misunderstood your statement or are you seriously saying that my 6 year old son is in the most danger from his mum and dad?


I think that if Galluslass had added 'statistically' to her post it would be more accurate...thus...



> Kids are 'statistically' in much more danger from those close to them and who know them - than from some random stranger lurking behind a bush.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

thrax said:


> Have I totally misunderstood your statement or are you seriously saying that my 6 year old son is in the most danger from his mum and dad?


What Jimenato was saying is that children are more likely to be killed, injured or sexually abused by their parents or other family members than by strangers.
Sad, disturbing but true.
Same goes for women.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> What Jimenato was saying is that children are more likely to be killed, injured or sexually abused by their parents or other family members than by strangers.
> Sad, disturbing but true.
> Same goes for women.



Sadly Mary, your quite right.


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Sexual abuse of children by their natural parents remains quite rare, but not unknown; abuse by a step father (or, sadly, step mother) is far more prevalent. I believe statistics for the UK show that abuse is more often carried out by people known to the family, not necessarily relations.


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## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Statistically, US citizens are more likely to be killed by a toddler than a terrorist. Of course, that doesn't mean to say we should start locking up three-year-olds, but it's something the gun lobby are in denial about.


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