# Is it really that bad



## bshoward (Jun 18, 2012)

Hi all, i am currently living in the UK and really missing home now after 5 and a half years is it really as bad as what people are saying in regards with finding a job and cost of living, any advice would be great thanks


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## Orbit24 (Jul 9, 2012)

Hi bshoward,

Difficult and broad question to answer..

Our 'dual society' is as present as ever. 
I can only speak in terms of the circles I move in. (Electronics and IT industry) This is by no means an expert or researched opinion.

For the educated and experienced there appears to be as many jobs as there ever were.

Our global headquarters in Gauteng have resignations monthly from people who feel secure in moving to our competitors, opening up many well paying positions to both internal and external candidates. 
After the birth of our second child I founded a business for my wife to run in 2008. It has seen an average of 70% annual growth every year since then.

Crime appears to be much the same as ever. Of all the people I know personally, one family suffered a home invasion 3 years ago. The rest has been theft of possessions from houses/vehicles/businesses. 
Living in a housing estate reduces the risk of violent crime. 
It appears that crime (theft) in my area is on the way up. There was a statement issued this weekend on Facebook regarding our neighbouring suburb saying 'if it's not bolted down it's going'.
This appears to be a phase most suburbs go through from time to time.

The cost of living has gone up. On a tour of the UK last year I found that every day items appeared to be similar in price. (apart from meat) Buying a round of lagers didn't break the bank.

Hope this has given you something to think about.

Both countries have much to offer, at the end of the day it boils down to you as an individual.


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## bshoward (Jun 18, 2012)

Thanks very much for the reply, although is does all come down to the individual and from what you have said is seems not to have changed that much from when i was there in 2007, unfortunatley i am now in a position where i am asking myself why did i leave and was it as bad or was i just making it out to be worse than what it was, in the event that the grass is greener on the other side it turned out its the same colour and has the same crap on it to make it grow, thanks again


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## Orbit24 (Jul 9, 2012)

bshoward said:


> Thanks very much for the reply, although is does all come down to the individual and from what you have said is seems not to have changed that much from when i was there in 2007, unfortunatley i am now in a position where i am asking myself why did i leave and was it as bad or was i just making it out to be worse than what it was, in the event that the grass is greener on the other side it turned out its the same colour and has the same crap on it to make it grow, thanks again


bshoward if you have a minute please could I ask you to expand a little on the grass that is the same colour which has the same crap on it to make it grow?

My only option out of SA is UK ancestral and I've often wandered what the challenges are over there. I've enjoyed the UK thoroughly as a tourist, I suspect that working and living there full time may be somewhat different.


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## bshoward (Jun 18, 2012)

I hear what you are saying, i have been in the UK for 6 years and at the end of the day home is home and some times it's just time to go home, there are things here that i wont get there but home is home the difficulties are roughly the same, having no family support around you can sometimes make or break


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## d123 (May 29, 2009)

Orbit24 said:


> bshoward if you have a minute please could I ask you to expand a little on the grass that is the same colour which has the same crap on it to make it grow?
> 
> My only option out of SA is UK ancestral and I've often wandered what the challenges are over there. I've enjoyed the UK thoroughly as a tourist, I suspect that working and living there full time may be somewhat different.


If you do make the move try and avoid London, it's dirty (the cheaper areas anyway) and expensive. There is a lot more to England than London, and its cheaper, cleaner, greener and more wide open. I live in the north east of England and within 1 hour I have mountains, wild empty coastal beaches, lakes and huge open country expanses of Yorkshire and Northumberland.

The nearest 3 cities are clean and have pretty low crime rates (other than the really low class estates that are easy to avoid) and we often go out and walk in the countryside or Riverside up till midnight without any issues.

Housing is also cheaper and bigger than London, I live on an ex-council estate (majority of houses now private) in a 3 bedroom house with a large front and back gardens, in the 10 years we have been in the house we have had to call the police once (for a traffic accident when someone drove into the back of a badly parked van).


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## Orbit24 (Jul 9, 2012)

d123 said:


> If you do make the move try and avoid London, it's dirty (the cheaper areas anyway) and expensive. There is a lot more to England than London, and its cheaper, cleaner, greener and more wide open. I live in the north east of England and within 1 hour I have mountains, wild empty coastal beaches, lakes and huge open country expanses of Yorkshire and Northumberland.
> 
> The nearest 3 cities are clean and have pretty low crime rates (other than the really low class estates that are easy to avoid) and we often go out and walk in the countryside or Riverside up till midnight without any issues.
> 
> Housing is also cheaper and bigger than London, I live on an ex-council estate (majority of houses now private) in a 3 bedroom house with a large front and back gardens, in the 10 years we have been in the house we have had to call the police once (for a traffic accident when someone drove into the back of a badly parked van).


Thanks for the response D123, exactly what I was looking for.


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## d123 (May 29, 2009)

Orbit24 said:


> Thanks for the response D123, exactly what I was looking for.


No problem, work doesn't seem to be that difficult to come by either. While I run my own (small) business now I have worked in retail, when I first arrived and in a call centre (plenty around up here) and even better, the call centers seem to like the English SA accent.

Plenty of IT work around as well (Sage software for example) and other multi-nationals like Proctor and Gamble, Hitachi and Siemens.

The one thing we are starting to find expensive is the car, but then petrol is getting expensive everywhere. £1.35 a litre is just mad, but I look upon it as a tax towards medical cover and our local NHS Trust and hospitals are top class, in some respects world class (and of course totally free).

Public transport is actually pretty good, we have a Metro system light railway and a 24 hour bus system (every 10 minutes through the day Mon-Fri) as well as reasonably cheap metered taxis.

Anything else you might want to know, ask away.


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## Orbit24 (Jul 9, 2012)

Yeh I went through Northumberland and specifically Alnwick last year in Feb. Very cold. Had the best Fish and Chips of my life at Colemans, Tyne and Wear.

The public transport was great although my London based sister moans that if there is a leaf on the track ‘Elf n Safety’ have to go out and remove it.. (tongue in cheek)

Cars are becoming more expensive here too. A 1.2 TDi VW Polo will set you back R190k (£14500) without extras. Your fuel is around R4/liter more expensive than ours but the expense is more than cancelled out by the cost of our medical aid, currently R4000/month (family of four) of which my company pays half. 

I have seen a number of articles detailing how joblessness, a lagging economy and inflation are affecting the general populace in the UK, have you seen any evidence of this?

Lastly, there have been some negative comments made regarding schooling over there. Do you have kids and if so what has been you experience?

Orbit.


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## bshoward (Jun 18, 2012)

Hi, well as far as medical goes we cant really complain as it is a free service how ever i would much rather prefer to pay R4000 and get the proper medical that is required every time and i mean every time i have been to the doctor with a issue he has basically just prescribed some form of pain killer and told me if it persist after a week come back and see him, now in SA it is diagnosed relativley there and then or tests are carried out but that is just my experience.

As for schools and kids the schools are ok but again this is mainly a free service and as far as i am concerned it is a medium quality although saying that they are abviously alot better than government schools back home. 

My biggest issue i have with kids here is the intense lack of discipline do what they want and say what they want and nothing will happen. My kids currently been here 6 years and the only thing that interests them are electronics any thing that begins with an I (ipod, iphone, ipad) is all they do watch tv play on computers, phones etc and yes its not always there fault as the weather does not always permit them to play outside however saying that when it is a nice sunny day (not that often) they still inside on the gadgets and we as parents are also to blame as we try to keep them occupied hence buying these things.

I am by not means saying all kids and parents are the same but given time thats what they ALL do, i would much prefer to give my kids even 50% of the out doors life that i had.


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## Orbit24 (Jul 9, 2012)

I know what you're saying about the discipline and kids. I've always wandered what happened to all the undisciplined children in the UK who became adults. All the adults I've met seem to be great people. 

Over here they are passing or trying to pass legislation that says you may not touch a child at home or in public. Some parents strongly disagree.

My kids also like TV, computers and phones. If I left them on their own they would not leave the house. Fortunately when the sun is shining (the big difference is here that is 80% of the time) you can send them outside to play and the electronic items become a reward for constructive time spent outdoors.

I should also add that although kids don't play in the street like they did when I was young, in the two housing complexes we've stayed in the children have had an absolute ball running around on the driveway and recreational areas.

I get the sense that you are still weighing things up. I did not point out earlier that the cost of living in SA has increased substantially. If you would like an idea of current running costs here just shout.


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## d123 (May 29, 2009)

Not sure I would live as far north as Alnwick, you are starting to get into Scottish weather 

Schooling wise, they are reasonably good around here and sport plays a pretty big part of school up here (maybe because the schools up here have the space for multiple playing fields). My children have both finished school now (my daughter finished her A levels this year). Both of my kids had reasonably good A level passes, as did most of their friends at the school.

The main sporting activities at the school they were at were football (almost a religion up here), rugby, basketball, athletics and hockey, all had their own facilities at the school.

Discipline wise, the school seemed pretty on the ball (my daughter got sent home for wearing trainers one day while in 6th form as they maintain a smart casual code enforced by the deputy head).

My son was more into football and him and his mates were out in all weathers playing (other than at school there is a large outdoor multipitch site for them newcastle/gateshead). One of his football mates now plays for Liverpool FC.

Job wise, both of my children found jobs while still at school (in 6th form) my son started part time at a call centre and ended up as the Training Manager in 3 years, it was a multinational and he even gave training to the subsidiary in Cape Town and Munich (2 weeks at a time for Hewlett Packard) so the schooling must have done something right. He has since left and joined the police, again a long winded application but the vacancies were there and he left the first job on the Friday and started the new one on the Monday.

My daughter was going to university but has now decided to take a year off, she is enjoying her job and a bit of post school freedom I suppose.

Apologies if it's a little rambling, I've written the above between bits of work  .


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## bshoward (Jun 18, 2012)

Thanks i have been looking for that type of info (living costs) for some time now so any help would be appreciated, i suppose on the upside with kids and the UK is the freedom of all the security that is required there to keep safe simple things like lock the car doors, that ype of thing here is rarely necessary, the dilemas of life 😒


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## d123 (May 29, 2009)

bshoward said:


> Thanks i have been looking for that type of info (living costs) for some time now so any help would be appreciated, i suppose on the upside with kids and the UK is the freedom of all the security that is required there to keep safe simple things like lock the car doors, that ype of thing here is rarely necessary, the dilemas of life ��


It's an extremely valid point, my daughter has just turned 18 and finished school. She has bought her first car and is out all hours. I doubt very much I would be as relaxed about her if I was still in SA (or probably certain areas of London too, if I'm honest).

Edit to add

If ther are any specific costs of living up here you'd like an opinion on, ask away and I'll do my best to answer.


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## Orbit24 (Jul 9, 2012)

Have a look below:

Some of the items are close to my spend others are market related.
Yes you can live on less, but this is probably a fair representation of a typical family of four in my suburb.

You can rent a 90m square duplex/simplex 2 bed 2 bath with UCP and garden in a reasonable area for an estimated R4k - R7k/month.

Apologies for the layout, does not translate well from Word..


ITEM ZAR
Bond/Mortgage – R14000 (R1.5m home, 10% deposit, 20 years)	14000
Groceries 5000
Medical Aid - ('Comprehensive' R12k/year medical saving for GP) 4000 
Car Payment (R150 000 - 54 months) 3500
Petrol (2 Cars 3000km/Month Total 9L/100km) 3000
School Fees (2 kids, Model C, Private is upwards of double) 2500 
After School Care - If both parents work 1500
Insurance (Household + 2 Vehicles Fully Comprehensive) 1500
Mobile Phone - 500 Minutes 1400
Housing Complex Levy 1200
Council Rates 1200
Clothing 1000
Vehicle Service 1000
Extra Mural Activities, Monthly - Kids 1000
Electricity 800
ADSL - 1MB Line 550
Investments 500
Eating Out 500
Security Company with Alarm 350
Account Fees (2 Accounts no Credit Card) 350
Gifts 300
Water 300
Hardware 200
Pet Food/Vet (one Cat, Dogs are more expensive) 200 
Telkom Telephone Line and Rental 200
Parking (Malls, Car Guards) 150

46200


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## bshoward (Jun 18, 2012)

Thank alot for those i did work it roughly in my head to be R40 000 of which is a lot higher than here we basically live on about £1500 a month in Peterborough for about the same amoun of things just the one car though, also if you want a breakdown let me know


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## d123 (May 29, 2009)

Orbit24 said:


> Have a look below:
> 
> Some of the items are close to my spend others are market related.
> Yes you can live on less, but this is probably a fair representation of a typical family of four in my suburb.
> ...


Wow, things really have got expensive!

I can't believe even rent is so much higher, as an example, my son has just rented a 2 bed semi with large gardens in a good area for £550 a month, even on a £1:R13 conversion that's in a similar price bracket. 

Just renewed my phone contract, 600 minutes, 500text, unlimited internet and a Galaxy S3 is going to cost me £18 a month.

About to renew my insurance, car and household renewal quotes are coming in around £450 for the next year.

Some other prices I know without having to look them up.

Bank a/c fees £0, plenty of free current accounts, it's only if you want extras like travel insurance included that there are account fees.

Electricity and Gas are £95 a month.

Council tax (rates) £1100 per annum (£100 pm for 11 months)

Home Internet with Virgin cable - 20meg line £7.50 pm
Home phone with unlimited standard calls £17.50 pm

Water £32 pm

Garden service £25 pm


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## bshoward (Jun 18, 2012)

D123 you are spot on with those aprox the same


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## Orbit24 (Jul 9, 2012)

Thx Gents,

Very interesting, work just got busy so I will respond a little later.

Orbit.


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## Orbit24 (Jul 9, 2012)

d123 said:


> Wow, things really have got expensive!
> 
> I can't believe even rent is so much higher, as an example, my son has just rented a 2 bed semi with large gardens in a good area for £550 a month, even on a £1:R13 conversion that's in a similar price bracket.
> 
> ...



So I spent some time looking at your figures, makes SA look expensive..

If your prime lending rate is .5% then buying a house in Peterborough for £170000 and paying it off over 20 years will cost around £750/month? Does this look correct?

By direct comparison in mobiles I took the S3 on contract renewal two weeks ago. 500 minutes, 100 free texts, 1G of monthly Data over 24 months. R1500 or £115/month.

Insurance seems to be much less as are mobile phone contracts, ADSL, cars, banking charges, medical, schooling and pension. 

Now take away the threat of violent crime, signifigant corruption and extensive
annoying renaming of historical street names and I can see why the grass looked greener on the other side bshoward!

Thx for the feedback on schooling and jobs. I see that similar jobs to mine are advertised at around £30 - £35k per year with some perks. I don't think this would see me into a R170k house..

All food for thought, great thread.


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## d123 (May 29, 2009)

Orbit24 said:


> So I spent some time looking at your figures, makes SA look expensive..
> 
> If your prime lending rate is .5% then buying a house in Peterborough for £170000 and paying it off over 20 years will cost around £750/month? Does this look correct?


Mortgage rate is higher than prime, I've seen a few offered around 2.8%.

You can throw your figures in at BBC - Homes - Property - Mortgage calculator

Mortgage rates are on most bank websites. £17000 would be around £900 at 20 years, £700 at 30 years.

To add, I'm not sure of other areas, but at £150k-£160k you will get quite a bit of house for your money in the North East. For example:
http://www.pattinson.co.uk/



> annoying renaming of historical street names and I can see why the grass looked greener on the other side bshoward!


I saw the renaming starting up when I was last there, as an outsider now I found some of it quite idiotically comical. Why couldn't they just change a surname for a surname? 

I still remember the impossibly long names for some of the CBD roads like Smith, West and Gale streets. It would have been easier for everyone if they had just used the surname (perhaps they were too scared people wouldnt know who half the "heros" were).


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## whiteroses (Mar 6, 2012)

Good Morning,

I am a South African newly moved to the Uk and am needing to buy insurance for car and household. Your quoted 450 pounds sounds very reasonable - could you please advise which Insurance Company this is. Many thanks


d123 said:


> Wow, things really have got expensive!
> 
> I can't believe even rent is so much higher, as an example, my son has just rented a 2 bed semi with large gardens in a good area for £550 a month, even on a £1:R13 conversion that's in a similar price bracket.
> 
> ...


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## d123 (May 29, 2009)

whiteroses said:


> Good Morning,
> 
> I am a South African newly moved to the Uk and am needing to buy insurance for car and household. Your quoted 450 pounds sounds very reasonable - could you please advise which Insurance Company this is. Many thanks


Hi, if you are a new arrival you will unfortunately not have a UK no claims bonus and can probably expect to pay double that at the start . I would suggest going to a broker for your first policy as they can search a lot more sources than even the comparison websites. If you are still to buy a car look on Parkers.co.uk for cars in the lower insurance groups to get the premium down (1l Corsa, Ford Ka as examples).

I found my cheapest policies at Swiftcover via comparethemarket.com if you would like to try it for yourself.

EDIT: but as your location is France all off the above probably doesn't apply.


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## gushungo (Sep 3, 2012)

I recently moved from Germany to South Africa. The biggest differences I've noticed in household costs are:

1) Cars are much more expensive in SA then Western Europe. And second hand car prices in SA are just ridiculous. A 3 year old car with 70k kms on the clock in a dealership might be offered at 70% to 80% of the price of a new model. In Germany the price would be closer to 50%.

2) Car hire is much cheaper - sometimes half the price of Western Europe. In Germany a Polo will cost around at least EUR60 for a single day hire (maybe 25% cheaper weekly), in SA closer to ZAR300.

3) Eating out in SA is ridiculously cheap - a meal in a restaurant costs hardly more than the ingredients would cost in Woolies or PicknPay. In Germany the same meal would cost 4 or 5 times as much. Supermarket food prices are fairly similar between the two countries. If you go for somewhere like Netto (or Tesco Value Range in UK) then this is much cheaper than SA supermarkets - although obviously the real markets are much, much cheaper if you're brave enough to buy there.

4) Housing is much cheaper in SA, particularly outside Jozi. In Munich a tiny box would cost you EUR1k per month. In SA, say Centurion for example, ZAR10k will get you a very nice detached house with double garage and garden.

5) Home help in SA is ridiculously cheap. In Jozi R200 per day or cheaper. You'd pay that per hour in Munich.



Orbit24 said:


> So I spent some time looking at your figures, makes SA look expensive..
> 
> If your prime lending rate is .5% then buying a house in Peterborough for £170000 and paying it off over 20 years will cost around £750/month? Does this look correct?
> 
> ...


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## Johanna (Apr 13, 2009)

gushungo said:


> 3) Eating out in SA is ridiculously cheap - a meal in a restaurant costs hardly more than the ingredients would cost in Woolies or PicknPay. In Germany the same meal would cost 4 or 5 times as much. Supermarket food prices are fairly similar between the two countries. If you go for somewhere like Netto (or Tesco Value Range in UK) then this is much cheaper than SA supermarkets - although obviously the real markets are much, much cheaper if you're brave enough to buy there.
> 
> 4) Housing is much cheaper in SA, particularly outside Jozi. In Munich a tiny box would cost you EUR1k per month. In SA, say Centurion for example, ZAR10k will get you a very nice detached house with double garage and garden.
> 
> 5) Home help in SA is ridiculously cheap. In Jozi R200 per day or cheaper. You'd pay that per hour in Munich.



You are so right, eating out is very cheap and real value for money.

Having help with regards to house and garden, gardens are bigger than in Europe and there is more dust, so a cleaner and gardner are handy.

I do hope you pay more than R200 per day?


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## gushungo (Sep 3, 2012)

Johanna said:


> I do hope you pay more than R200 per day?


I have a maid one day a fortnight and pay R190 for 07:30-14:30. The maid works most days for the landlady at the B'n'B where I stayed when I first arrived and said that R190 was her normal rate so I never questionned it. Nobody at work mentioned that this was out of line with what they pay. What do you think I should offer to pay?


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

Johanna said:


> You are so right, eating out is very cheap and real value for money.
> 
> Having help with regards to house and garden, gardens are bigger than in Europe and there is more dust, so a cleaner and gardner are handy.
> 
> I do hope you pay more than R200 per day?


Yeah, saw this often, new "Madam" arrives, usually from the UK, shock and horror, starts paying double and going over the top, maid lords it over the buddies, pretty soon there are maids out of work as they want more money, then a new batch moves in who have been without work and are prepared to work at the old wage.....white suburban homes dont make payscales, supply and demand does,

if you suddenly insisted that all maids earn R10,000 a month with 50% contribution to medical and pension, ........................
how many maids will still have jobs at the end of the month?

PS: my maid always earned more than her buddies, she got the difference as a bonus.


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## Adelita (Sep 4, 2012)

You do not need anyone to tell you how bad SA is, all you have to do is read up on the latest horror stories from the news, and read between the lines. I've lived in Johannesburg, Pretoria and Limpopo - and the only difference is the varying degrees of racism, crime, filth, and the people's attitudes towards one another.

I love South Africa - I stayed right next to the Kruger National Park. Half of my family stays there, the other half in England, America and Australia. I did not have R4000 to spend on medical aid, was too scared to walk anywhere, couldn't take my kids to a public park since it's too filthy and God alone knows what my kids might step into running around there, and clung to my kids' hands when walking in town because I was scared they'll get snatched! If it was at all possible, I'd have gone to stay in the remotest part of South Africa living off the land, if it would have meant less stress about the other people around me and ensure the safety of my kids.

The very first time I went to London, I went for 2 years. Stayed in London self and didn't like it as it was nothing like what I was used to. So I went to places like Edgeworth, Cornwall and Wales. I absolutely loved it! Even though it rains 4 days out of the week, it wasn't the heavy downpour we'd experience back in SA and we still ventured outdoors to ride horses or take walks. I loved England and still regrets having had to come to South Africa. To me, it was utter peace and freedom - being able to walk when and where I wanted to without having to worry about being robbed/mobbed/raped/assaulted. Then my brother came over and opened his own business and has been here for 5 years now - in the heart of London. I've gone to visit him in May and his kids get taken on regular outdoors activities and play outside when the rain isn't too heavy. They are allowed TV during certain hours of the day and the rest of the time play games such as chess (6 years and 8 years old and masters!), Monopoly, Guess, Scrabble, Uno ect. His wife and him makes sure the kids are rather kept busy with recreational activities other than electronic devices. I've seen my brother bake mudcakes with his kids, from the porch!

As for me, I work from home and travel all over, with my kids. They love seeing all the different places, and we especially enjoy all the different accents!! England might be more rainy than SA, but I'd rather have a bit of rain than safety issues, work issues, racist issues, strike issues or any other issues that my family are suffering in South Africa at the moment.

Just my opinion


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## gushungo (Sep 3, 2012)

I could show you parts of London, or other cities in UK, France or Germany, which are nothing like this. I'm not saying that your opinion is wrong, it just shows that you've only experienced the nicer parts of UK.



Adelita said:


> You do not need anyone to tell you how bad SA is, all you have to do is read up on the latest horror stories from the news, and read between the lines. I've lived in Johannesburg, Pretoria and Limpopo - and the only difference is the varying degrees of racism, crime, filth, and the people's attitudes towards one another.
> 
> I love South Africa - I stayed right next to the Kruger National Park. Half of my family stays there, the other half in England, America and Australia. I did not have R4000 to spend on medical aid, was too scared to walk anywhere, couldn't take my kids to a public park since it's too filthy and God alone knows what my kids might step into running around there, and clung to my kids' hands when walking in town because I was scared they'll get snatched! If it was at all possible, I'd have gone to stay in the remotest part of South Africa living off the land, if it would have meant less stress about the other people around me and ensure the safety of my kids.
> 
> ...


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

gushungo said:


> I could show you parts of London, or other cities in UK, France or Germany, which are nothing like this. I'm not saying that your opinion is wrong, it just shows that you've only experienced the nicer parts of UK.


Gushungo, why would you want to stay in those places?
all Cities have no go areas, I would no more walk through Central park at night, or parts of Limerick or Dublin anymore than I would walk through Jhbg Central, or Durban's West street (new name now) after dark......

and I certainly would not live there.

I would (and did) live in Sandton and Durban North, as most of the people who frequent this and other sites would also live in middle to upper income suburbs.
especially in SA.
now kindly show me which normal 1st World Suburb in at least middle Income has the same scary stats and incidents as places we and others who visit this site, will live in, in SA.


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## gushungo (Sep 3, 2012)

Daxk said:


> Gushungo, why would you want to stay in those places?


Because that's all I could afford a few years ago. I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth. I'm very lucky that I now earn a good salary and can live in nicer areas.


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## Daxk (Jan 20, 2008)

gushungo said:


> Because that's all I could afford a few years ago. I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth. I'm very lucky that I now earn a good salary and can live in nicer areas.


and the reason I asked, was that I took your initial reply to be a variation of it happens everywhere.
when I was 22 for a very short space in time, I lived in Point Rd, Durban, then it was a redlight district across from Durbans Dockland, it was'nt great but also what I could afford as a student,.... but lot of the of people who read this Forum are well qualified and heading out to SA on a Contract, they are unlikely to be living in bad areas because of a lack of money??

and my point was that in SA, the crime everyone fears, home invasions, and hi-jackings happen EVERYWHERE, no matter where you live.


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## gushungo (Sep 3, 2012)

Daxk said:


> and my point was that in SA, the crime everyone fears, home invasions, and hi-jackings happen EVERYWHERE, no matter where you live.


A while back I went to the Midlands Meander. There were homes there where people had no security to speak of - you could walk right up to the front door, no locked gates, just walls/fences like you get in Europe - more for marking out boundaries than for keeping out trespassers. These were nice houses owned by rich(-ish) people - for example the people that sell homemade chutney or jam at ridiculous prices - certainly the type of home that burglars would see as likely to contain plenty of valuable things to take away.


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