# Trip to the hospital!!!



## stevelin (Apr 25, 2009)

Thought I would let you know about our trip yesterday to Hospital Clinico Malaga. My father 78yrs (who has heart problems and is on anticoagulants) fell and hurt his knee yesterday afternoon. We took him to our local health centre but they were unable to help as needed an Xray so off the the Clinico we went: 2 hours later we were on our way home having seen 3 doctors had x rays on knee and heavy strapping in place and another appointment made. We could not have asked for anything better, the treatment and speed of being seen was excellent all the nurses and doctors we saw spoke English which was a great help to reassure Dad :clap2::clap2:


----------



## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

stevelin said:


> Thought I would let you know about our trip yesterday to Hospital Clinico Malaga. My father 78yrs (who has heart problems and is on anticoagulants) fell and hurt his knee yesterday afternoon. We took him to our local health centre but they were unable to help as needed an Xray so off the the Clinico we went: 2 hours later we were on our way home having seen 3 doctors had x rays on knee and heavy strapping in place and another appointment made. We could not have asked for anything better, the treatment and speed of being seen was excellent all the nurses and doctors we saw spoke English which was a great help to reassure Dad :clap2::clap2:


Good to hear he is OK.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

In my experience the majority of medical care here beats the NHS. I say majority because when my wife's late godmother (in her 80s) was taken to Jaén hospital following a stroke, the staff in A&E were very brusque and not at all helpful, no warning before plunging a needle into her, etc.

For myself, the treatment has been excellent except for a trainee who damaged my cornea (now mostly better) when measuring corneal thickness.


----------



## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Two hours for a Triage, Doctor(s), xray and leg strap is nothing to boast about. As for 'brusque' staff for a stroke (or potential stroke) victim... do you have any real concept of the time corridor your dealing with? Every minute really does count. Treatment first then chit chat.

Whats the long term free after care for the elderly in Spain like, what are the free nursing homes like (and NO, they are not all awful in the UK), why so many expat self support groups in Spain if the Health service is so good?

Some here have no idea of the real world of treatment.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

bob_bob said:


> Two hours for a Triage, Doctor(s), xray and leg strap is nothing to boast about. As for 'brusque' staff for a stroke (or potential stroke) victim... do you have any real concept of the time corridor your dealing with? Every minute really does count. Treatment first then chit chat.
> 
> Whats the long term free after care for the elderly in Spain like, what are the free nursing homes like (and NO, they are not all awful in the UK), why so many expat self support groups in Spain if the Health service is so good?
> 
> Some here have no idea of the real world of treatment.


For your info the stroke victim was stabilised and also for your info my wife is a nurse with over 15 years in the profession dealing with among others stroke victims! As for brusque v. timescales it takes little or no time to say "I'm just going to give you an injection" rather than scare the living daylights out of an already frightened patient!

As for "free" after-care/free nursing homes - try getting *yourself* into the real world. Here the concept of "family" still exists so people are looked after by their own. Expats need support groups often because they are too damned lazy to learn the language and also because they don't have family members to fulfil the roles that they used to in UK and still do here.


----------



## stevelin (Apr 25, 2009)

I would just like to add the care could not have been better unlike my daughter recent experiences in the UK with her 3 year old with breathing problems. NH helpline booked appointment at "walkin centre" for her (10pm) arrived to find 3 hour wait no triage told to just sit and wait whilst 3yr old continued to cough and turn blue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so left and went to A&E instead still had an hours wait before being admitted but at least a triage nurse gave them a nebulizer.
Having worked with the elderly in the UK I would rather be here where family still help than there where carers are given 15 minutes to get somebody up washed , dressed and breakfast


----------



## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

stevelin said:


> I would just like to add the care could not have been better unlike my daughter recent experiences in the UK with her 3 year old with breathing problems. NH helpline booked appointment at "walkin centre" for her (10pm) arrived to find 3 hour wait no triage told to just sit and wait whilst 3yr old continued to cough and turn blue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so left and went to A&E instead still had an hours wait before being admitted but at least a triage nurse gave them a nebulizer.
> Having worked with the elderly in the UK I would rather be here where family still help than there where carers are given 15 minutes to get somebody up washed , dressed and breakfast


Sorry, but I really don't believe she was in cyanosis and I certainly don't believe that any A&E department would leave the child like that for 'hours'; I'm sure that your screams for help would have alerted staff even if they ignored someone short of breath and 'blue', get real. 

As for _"For your info the stroke victim was stabilised and also for your info my wife is a nurse with over 15 years in the profession dealing with among others stroke victims!"_ then she would agree with what I said, the need for speed is vital and I'm sure the situation described is a little 'fudged' compared to the reality. Had the victim who was stabilised had a stroke on the occasion of the visit? No, they would not have been allowed home, certainly not in the UK anyway.

As for the extended family taking over after care for folk...good luck and I hope they have some training and knowledge. Do Spanish social services provide the level of general care given in the UK? Do they fit free or heavily subsidised and safe showers, wheelchair ramps ect etc ? I am in the real world, it seems some here are not.

I love Spain, love Gran Canaria but don't make things up to fit some agenda you have, as a retired nurse it pees me off to see blanket slagging of the NHS, while the NHS has faults it still provides a fantastic service and combined with social services its care of the elderly certainly beats Spain.


----------



## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

bob_bob said:


> Sorry, but I really don't believe she was in cyanosis and I certainly don't believe that any A&E department would leave the child like that for 'hours'; I'm sure that your screams for help would have alerted staff even if they ignored someone short of breath and 'blue', get real.
> 
> As for _"For your info the stroke victim was stabilised and also for your info my wife is a nurse with over 15 years in the profession dealing with among others stroke victims!"_ then she would agree with what I said, the need for speed is vital and I'm sure the situation described is a little 'fudged' compared to the reality. Had the victim who was stabilised had a stroke on the occasion of the visit? No, they would not have been allowed home, certainly not in the UK anyway.
> 
> ...


I can only speak as I find & that is over the last 40 years the NHS has got progressively worse. Whether this is as a result of increased demand on services or outsourcing of services /supplies or people using A&E facilities for trivial reasons, I don't know. All I know is that from Essex, London , Gloucestershire, Wales ; Devon & Cornwall , the care , let alone the waiting , had become abysmal.
It's no good worrying about the aftercare if they've died waiting. 
I can list a catalogue of problems without being able to find one good outcome , & with two daughters who both work in the NHS ( London & Devon ) telling the same tales it appears that there's still problems.
I personally wouldn't chance my arm with an op in the UK. On the occasions that I've used the health service here , or had to take others , the service has been prompt , efficient & with good back up. I haven't had to sit in an A&E that resembled something out of Assault on Precinct 13 , with bars on all doors & windows to protect staff, guards , etc ; all sorts of drunks, drug addicts, loonies ,etc; wandering about. I'll stick with here thanks.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

bob_bob said:


> I love Spain, love Gran Canaria but don't make things up to fit some agenda you have, as a retired nurse it pees me off to see blanket slagging of the NHS, while the NHS has faults it still provides a fantastic service and combined with social services its care of the elderly certainly beats Spain.


It seems that YOU are the one who needs to get real. The NHS's services have been ruined by get rich specialists ("I'm sorry but there is a [artificial] long waiting list but if you care to 'go private', I can see you next week using the NHS facilities" - this is fact not unfounded propaganda). The other problem with the NHS is too many managers/budgets/targets and not enough health care.

Social Services is also plagued with too many managers with ridiculous targets such as giving carers barely ten minutes to get an elderly/disabled person out of bed, washed dressed and breakfasted, write a report, then get on the road and drive to the next victim.

There are parts of both services that are struggling to do a good job but they are so often held back by unrealistic 'got a degree in something' idiots who are supposed to be in charge but in reality couldn't even tie their own shoe laces without help.


----------



## stevelin (Apr 25, 2009)

I worked for many years in Social services for the elderly and spent many hours arguing with the power that be for a good level of care package for my elderly clients only to be told it was too expensive and they could only have ???? level unless they paid privately with carer who tried there best were often poorly trained and did not have enough time at least here you see what you get and our not forced into a false sense of security. There are many good things about the NHS and SSD in the UK but somewhere along the line things have gone very wrong with to much form filling and targets to meet and not enough time with people on the ground getting the service fit for purpose 
I do agree no where is perfect and we have waited over 2 hr to see our gp but once in she has spent as long as necessary with us.


----------



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

gus-lopez said:


> I can only speak as I find & that is over the last 40 years the NHS has got progressively worse. ...


That'll be why we're all dying so young these says then ...

The trouble with 'speaking as you find' (i.e. using your _personal experiences_ to judge the something like the performance of NHS) is that your personal experiences are only a minute snapshot of what is actually going on. Given that the aim of the NHS is to save lives, the evidence of our ever increasing lifespan would indicate to me that they are getting quite a lot right.


----------



## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

jimenato said:


> That'll be why we're all dying so young these says then ...
> 
> The trouble with 'speaking as you find' (i.e. using your _personal experiences_ to judge the something like the performance of NHS) is that your personal experiences are only a minute snapshot of what is actually going on. Given that the aim of the NHS is to save lives, the evidence of our ever increasing lifespan would indicate to me that they are getting quite a lot right.


Good post. I've retired from Nursing now (coming up two years) and in my time (twenty eight years in total) I worked many different wards, A&E for a long time, my last two years were with the elderly. The cost of care is frighteningly expensive, something people don't seem to understand. How many here have any idea of the cost of an ITU bed per day? Or even a bed on a standard ward?

While some emergency units look tired and tatty, they have a job to do, and overall they do it very well. Nursing is a litigation minefield these days...you have to get it right.

Expat guide to Spain: health care - Telegraph

The extended family was very strong with the Asian community in the UK but even that is now shrinking as younger family members become more 'British' and the same is happening in other parts of Europe. With Spanish youngsters exposed more and more to the 'west' via the internet etc, how long before you see the decline in family incare/aftercare in Spain. It won't be overnight but I've no doubt it will happen. Spain is changing, its not just brits who stock up on ready meals in Iceland stores now, they are full of locals snapping up ready meals, look in a typical Mac D and you will see scores of locals stuffing their faces the burgers.

I don't really understand why some here have such a massive downer on the NHS, perhaps you've been in Spain a bit too long and have lost touch with reality and mix your thoughts/what you read in the Daily Mail with the real world.

I'd not like to be elderly and with a long term illness in Spain without family to support me and that's the reality of Spanish care... there is none for long term elderly and all you who have retired out there should think long and hard on your contingency plans for the future.

It will be a sad day when we loose the NHS and I can't see how we can keep it unless we pay more tax and of course most brits while wanting the NHS, won't stump up extra to keep it.


----------



## baldilocks (Mar 7, 2010)

Excellent article:

Expat guide to Spain: health care - Telegraph

That has got it mostly right (apart from the advertorial content). Most expats should be aware that trying to use the EHIC when you are resident is illegal. Many areas are refusing to accept them, even for legitimate users (holidaymakers and other short-stay) because the issuing/home country won't pay the Spanish healthcare system for treatment because, it is claimed the user is not on a short-stay. This sometimes occurs when a frequent visitor legitimately uses the healthcare system several times in a year but more often than not it is the cheat who is trying to get something to which he is not entitled.


----------



## juancarlo (Dec 19, 2011)

I would agree with any one who says the Andalucian hospital service is better than UK NHS.

me and my partner had a baby in Puerto Real, Cadiz and we were kept in for 5 days as our baby was 3 months premature.

My brother and his partner had a baby in Pontefract Hospital, West Yorkshire and were asked by the staff to leave 1 hour later. They begged for more time incase of any problems after and the hospital (reluctantly) gave them 1 more hour. IT'S DISGUSTING!!!


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jimenato said:


> That'll be why we're all dying so young these says then ...
> 
> The trouble with 'speaking as you find' (i.e. using your _personal experiences_ to judge the something like the performance of NHS) is that your personal experiences are only a minute snapshot of what is actually going on. Given that the aim of the NHS is to save lives, the evidence of our ever increasing lifespan would indicate to me that they are getting quite a lot right.


If you don't work in a hospital the only measure you've got are your personal experiences, or are we supposed to read hospital performance records, in Spanish and English and which I don't think even exist here.
True, we should be aware that our personal treatment is just that - the treatment that we received, and it may not reflect the overall performance of the hospital. However that inevitably will be what we'll talk about if we talk about our hospital stay, so to dismiss these experiences as invalid seems ludicrous to me.
An increasing lifespan certainly is an indication that hospitals are doing a good job. It would be pretty difficult for it to go the other way unless we were at war or some similar disaster took over europe. However, don't forget better sanitation, vaccination programmes, health awareness, less smokers etc etc which have a huge effect on figures.
I think this thread is purely anecdotal and not in a negative sense. My own experiences here are 4 family hospital stays. In general the treatment was very good, the rooms good, the nursing very good but always brusque and sergant major like and the doctors good to very good, but definitely lacking in bedside manner.
In the UK we've had 2 recent hospital visits and I can say Spain wins hands down, from the moment you get the doctors appointment to leaving hospital, but that's only my experience after all
PS Like anything the hospital is only as good as the people who work there (well, and the equipment they have) and that changes. Same as schools and football teams and loads of other things so it all depends. Also, don't forget that each region will be different too.


----------



## jimenato (Nov 21, 2009)

OK then - this is true. I went to the doctor here in Spain and was twice given antibiotics. Two weeks later I was in England having body parts removed and undergoing a course of radiotherapy. If I had remained in Spain under the Spanish system I would be dead. Under the British system I received the best care imaginable. Therefore I conclude that the Spanish health service is incredibly bad and the British health service is incredibly good. That is the problem with using personal experience to judge something like this.


----------



## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

jimenato said:


> OK then - this is true. I went to the doctor here in Spain and was twice given antibiotics. Two weeks later I was in England having body parts removed and undergoing a course of radiotherapy. If I had remained in Spain under the Spanish system I would be dead. Under the British system I received the best care imaginable. Therefore I conclude that the Spanish health service is incredibly bad and the British health service is incredibly good. That is the problem with using personal experience to judge something like this.


We can all share horror stories if you want. My daughter would be dead twice over if not for the Spanish nhs staff doing their job.
Please don't forget that your experience is only, what was it? 
" a minute snapshot of what is actually going on."


----------



## xicoalc (Apr 20, 2010)

bob_bob said:


> while the NHS has faults it still provides a fantastic service and combined with social services its care of the elderly certainly beats Spain.


Sorry to butt in here, but in my experience of latter years with the NHS it appears to be completely run my pin stripe suits who are not doctors and make business decisions not clinical decisions and they think about cost cutting completely. They are also under immense pressure to meet targets regarding spending and timescales and this pressure leads to neglect, misdiagnosis, and other problems time and time again.

The Spanish system however has its problems and faults but I will say when you need help you get it.. fast. Despite their financial shortfalls they do spend money where it is needed to do whats best for the patient. I think the biggest shortfall in the spanish health service is the bedside manner and attitude of some of the medical professionals. This is just their way and culture of "respect he doctor". Nevertheless, they are swift and good at what they do.

As for pensioner care... as others have said this comes down to family much more here, and relatives of my spanish partner have family to care for them. Those who can't because of work etc tend to pay for care in the home for elderly relatives. I really don't know much about the social services side of things here.


----------

