# Piaggio MP3 Question



## Peasant

Does anyone know which models of the Piaggio MP3 that I can ride with a French (automobile) driving license?


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## 95995

This may be of help https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F45


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## Peasant

EverHopeful said:


> This may be of help https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F45


Thanks but not really. The page quoted (and I've seen it before) doesn't cover what I'm curious about. I don't want to do the lesson/testing thing, and since I was born before 1988 I don't have to to ride certain classes of scooters (up to 11kW-two wheels, up to 14kW- three wheels). It's just very difficult to find out which Piaggio MP3 models, particularly used models, fit within the regulations.


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## kaju

Peasant said:


> Thanks but not really. The page quoted (and I've seen it before) doesn't cover what I'm curious about. I don't want to do the lesson/testing thing, and since I was born before 1988 I don't have to to ride certain classes of scooters (up to 11kW-two wheels, up to 14kW- three wheels). It's just very difficult to find out which Piaggio MP3 models, particularly used models, fit within the regulations.


Look for 125cc MP3 models, they will all be 11kW, including the 125 Hybrid.

250cc models are 16-17kW, so too big, as are the 300cc models.


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## 95995

kaju said:


> Look for 125cc MP3 models, they will all be 11kW, including the 125 Hybrid.
> 
> 250cc models are 16-17kW, so too big, as are the 300cc models.


That is what I would have thought, but it seems it may not address the OP's query? But TBH I'm not at all sure what the query is, though it seems to be which specific models are actual 125cc/11kw, although granted you have said that the 125 Hybrid is one.

Frankly, I'm totally confused by the query, though I assumed and still think the OP has a Permis B and therefore he has to go for the 250cc. Clearly I am missing something somewhere


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## Peasant

kaju said:


> Look for 125cc MP3 models, they will all be 11kW, including the 125 Hybrid.
> 
> 250cc models are 16-17kW, so too big, as are the 300cc models.


My mistake is that the three wheel limit is 15kW and the current 300cc is 15.5kW. So I thought that, perhaps, some previous bigger-than-125cc models might be 15kW.


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## kaju

EverHopeful said:


> That is what I would have thought, but it seems it may not address the OP's query? But TBH I'm not at all sure what the query is, though it seems to be which specific models are actual 125cc/11kw, although granted you have said that the 125 Hybrid is one.
> 
> Frankly, I'm totally confused by the query, though I assumed and still think the OP has a Permis B and therefore he has to go for the 250cc. Clearly I am missing something somewhere



My interpretation (which I would take with a grain of salt or two)! 

To avoid the training requirement for scooters:

You need to have a B licence obtained in France, 

AND that licence needs to have been obtained before March 1, 1980,

OR you have ridden a scooter/motorbike before 2011, and can show that you have your B licence.

Either way, to avoid the training requirement, you would ALSO need to prove that you drove and insured a 3 wheeler for 5 years before 2011.

If you had a small motorbike (Not a 3 wheeler) before 2011, slightly different - show you had a B license for 2 years, and insured that for 5 years before 2011, then you can ride a motorbike of up to 125cc/11kW.

*However, 3 wheelers are different than motorcycles. I should have checked more, before saying anything! *

On investigation, it seems to me that there is a bit of a loophole in the rules - where motorbikes you can ride with a B licence are restricted by output and engine capacity, there seems to be no such limits for 3 wheelers (except that you need to be over 21 to exceed 15kW if you got your B licence from 2013 onwards).

So if you met the requirements to drive with only a B license, you could get any size Piaggio MP3 you wanted! 

Motorcycles for this are limited as per 4.3.1, here: https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affi...CTA000006159577&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006074228
but the same limits do not apply for 3 wheelers, simply a 1000kg limit, See 4.5, in the same link.

A bit of independent confirmation that no training and no engine limit applies for 3 wheelers if you meet the B license conditions, and got your B licence before 2013 AND can show insurance for 2006-2011 for a 3 wheeler : https://www.paruvendu.fr/auto-moto/I/Piaggio-MP3-LT-400-cm3-sans-permis-moto-i6962

Otherwise you'd need the training, but it seems to me that as long as you're over 21 with a B licence, no size limit applies still for 3 wheelers!

https://www.mutuelledesmotards.fr/conseils/avec-quel-permis-puis-je-conduire-mon-3-roues


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## Peasant

Sorry for not being specific in my original post.

I traded in my British license for French one. I received a B class license along with class AM and A1 endorsements.

The French government website says that, with an A1 I can ride
"a lightweight motorcycle (with or without a sidecar) with a maximum capacity of 125 cc, of a power not exceeding 11 kilowatts and having a power-to-weight ratio of not more than 0.1 kilowatt per kilogram"
or "a 3 wheels with a maximum power of 15 kilowatts."

As I was born before 1988 I don't have to have any training unless I want to go up to an A2 license.

I'm interested in finding out which Piaggio MP3 models I can ride with what I've got.


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## Peasant

kaju said:


> On investigation, it seems to me that there is a bit of a loophole in the rules - where motorbikes you can ride with a B licence are restricted by output and engine capacity, there seems to be no such limits for 3 wheelers (except that you need to be over 21 to exceed 15kW if you got your B licence from 2013 onwards).
> 
> So if you met the requirements to drive with only a B license, you could get any size Piaggio MP3 you wanted!
> 
> Motorcycles for this are limited as per 4.3.1, here: https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affi...CTA000006159577&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006074228
> but the same limits do not apply for 3 wheelers, simply a 1000kg limit, See 4.5, in the same link.
> 
> A bit of independent confirmation that no training and no engine limit applies for 3 wheelers if you meet the B license conditions, and got your B licence before 2013 AND can show insurance for 2006-2011 for a 3 wheeler : https://www.paruvendu.fr/auto-moto/I/Piaggio-MP3-LT-400-cm3-sans-permis-moto-i6962
> 
> Otherwise you'd need the training, but it seems to me that as long as you're over 21 with a B licence, no size limit applies still for 3 wheelers!
> 
> https://www.mutuelledesmotards.fr/conseils/avec-quel-permis-puis-je-conduire-mon-3-roues


Question answered, Thanks!


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## chriscor1973

Thinking of doing a road trip from UK to Spain Can I ride a Piaggio MP3 500cc on a motorway in Spain ?


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