# Double Invitations - Accountants vs External Auditors



## BulletAK (Sep 21, 2015)

Hi Guys,

This year i.e. 2017-2018, the ceilings for Accountants have been raised almost doubled. This means that many people will get invited and some of the prediction even says that even people with 65 points may also get invited.

My following request is specially for the people who have 2 EOIs for different occupations i.e. Accountant and External Auditor at the same time for same VISA type i.e. 189 or 190.

As the ceilings for accountants have been increased, the chances of invitation with this ANZSCO group (2211) with same points are very high as compared to Auditors (2212) group. I would just request to all those having 2 EOIs to please do withdraw their External Auditor's EOI if you have also filed one for Accountant. 

*The reason being*, ultimately Accountants will get invited earlier as compared to External Auditors because for Auditors the ceiling has unfortunately reduced now. I even know some few who have got invitations for both, Accountant and External Auditor. Now one could imagine that people like me, having 65 points (Internal Auditor) are waiting since more than a year in just for a hope if points decrease because being an Internal Auditor, we cant even switch occupations. However, because of this loop-hole in the system, we just see invitations getting waisted. It's like pay for a ticket and get another one free even without anyone utilizing it. 

I am not blame anyone, no one. Just asking for you guys to help others who are just behind you in queue, wishing people a best of luck ahead of them and hoping & praying for some miracle to happen that clears this queue.

*PLEA:*
1. If you have 2 EOIs for VISA 189 or 190, one for Accountant and one for External Auditor, please withdraw one for External Auditor, as you will get one earlier with Accountant for sure. If you have doubts, see my sheet for the trend here for both occupations: Pro-Rata Occupations - Invitation Trend.
2. If you are not willing to withdraw your EOI with External Auditor's occupation, then please please do withdraw it as soon as you get the invitation with your Accountant's EOI.

I hope my this post may reduce some burden on Auditors, leaving both i.e. Accountants and Auditors in a win win situation.

Many thanks.


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## BulletAK (Sep 21, 2015)

I guess no one will do so.


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## Anamica23 (Aug 17, 2016)

BulletAK said:


> I guess no one will do so.


You are right... I dont think anyone do so


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## AbsoluteVirtue (Jul 20, 2017)

So as far as I can see, you did not try to redo the PTE-A since over a year. The time you are spending in reading and writing in this forum will actually be helpful for your english skills.

Although, I am applying for IA, too and your request would be beneficial for me I am wondering why you rely on others for your own luck? Do your best to improve your english and attain 10 more points. It is solely in your hands. Improved english skills will also be beneficial for you, if you can finally make that step towards australia.

Also from my feeling - even if the group is called auditors, who says there is no distinction between internal auditor and external auditor selection? I mean, who knows if they arent selecting people by differentiating between these two even if they are in the same group? That would be just logical, since even in the job description for the skill assessment it is clearly distinguished. I do not have any proof for that, tho... just speculation.


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## BulletAK (Sep 21, 2015)

AbsoluteVirtue said:


> So as far as I can see, you did not try to redo the PTE-A since over a year. The time you are spending in reading and writing in this forum will actually be helpful for your english skills.
> 
> Although, I am applying for IA, too and your request would be beneficial for me I am wondering why you rely on others for your own luck? Do your best to improve your english and attain 10 more points. It is solely in your hands. Improved english skills will also be beneficial for you, if you can finally make that step towards australia.


Do you think I am just watching others and doing nothing to improve my English score? Well here is the explanation:

IELTS - Totally scam here in my country. LOOTING people all the time. Sometimes we score 6.5 in writing sometimes in Reading etc. Not only me, thousands of examples are here. I have a group full of whatsapp for this one!

PTE - Not available here in my country. It costs 5X times more for just a single attempt. Dont you think this isn't that easy? Scoring 79+ each is not a piece of a cake. Still trying hard and trying my best to do so. I need to manage job, cost preparations all together. If it was available in my country, it would have been really easy for me to at-least have an attempt and re-tries.



> Also from my feeling - even if the group is called auditors, who says there is no distinction between internal auditor and external auditor selection? I mean, who knows if they arent selecting people by differentiating between these two even if they are in the same group? That would be just logical, since even in the job description for the skill assessment it is clearly distinguished. I do not have any proof for that, tho... just speculation.


Look at the JDs of Internal and External Auditors. Even the bodies are different. Further, do you know, to get IAs assessment, you also have to access your job. For Accountants or External Auditors, you just need to have an assessment of your education. Hell of a difference in JDs of both Internal Auditors or Accountants / External Auditors. I can show you many Accountants who have 2 EOIs, one for Accountants and one for External Auditor. The thing is, because of rush at External Auditors / Accountants, their is more of a competition at Auditors group. And since Internal Auditors don't have any other way around, they have to compete with them although you wont find Internal Auditors in great numbers, but External Auditors.

My concern was, if External Auditors can get an invitation through an Accountant EOI, then why creating pressure on the Auditors group by submitting an extra EOI specifically with External Auditor profession, that is going to have a waisted invitation and keeping pressure, increase in cutoffs for Auditors. Don't you think, by thinking on this logically, many others (specially Internal Auditors) will get benefited too? I mean, just waisting an invite and not even caring for any other is sensible?


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## AbsoluteVirtue (Jul 20, 2017)

Did not want to offend you. Maybe I couldnt write clearly what I meant, but you are repeating the things I already wrote. 

Not gonna respond anymore as I dont want to offend you. Good luck...


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## BulletAK (Sep 21, 2015)

AbsoluteVirtue said:


> Did not want to offend you. Maybe I couldnt write clearly what I meant, but you are repeating the things I already wrote.
> 
> Not gonna respond anymore as I dont want to offend you. Good luck...


I repeated because you didn't understand what I was trying to convey. Any how, my concern is not with you. Thanks.


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## Anamica23 (Aug 17, 2016)

BulletAK said:


> Do you think I am just watching others and doing nothing to improve my English score? Well here is the explanation:
> 
> IELTS - Totally scam here in my country. LOOTING people all the time. Sometimes we score 6.5 in writing sometimes in Reading etc. Not only me, thousands of examples are here. I have a group full of whatsapp for this one!
> 
> ...


Dude. You are doing a great job by maintaining the spreadsheet and providing us all with valuable information when we require. I understand your frustration waiting for a long time... 

I had this idea of immigration before marriage and I waited for a year to be completed to get 5 points for Partner skills, since Marriage Certificate needs to be 1 year old or CO will ask for further docs to prove relationship. Also I wanted to wait for 2 years of experience to be completed during this process for ACS

He is just trying to help you and I dont think he knows that PTE is not available in respective country

I understand your feelings... Please be patient for sometime and you will definitely get it


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## BulletAK (Sep 21, 2015)

Anamica23 said:


> Dude. You are doing a great job by maintaining the spreadsheet and providing us all with valuable information when we require. I understand your frustration waiting for a long time...
> 
> I had this idea of immigration before marriage and I waited for a year to be completed to get 5 points for Partner skills, since Marriage Certificate needs to be 1 year old or CO will ask for further docs to prove relationship. Also I wanted to wait for 2 years of experience to be completed during this process for ACS
> 
> ...


Thank you for your understanding brother. Yeah, just trying to sort this thing out. In actual, this thing should be handled by DIBP, but unfortunately we cant even demand anything, who cares! They should include these waisted invitations back to the quota but they are just inviting blindly and later don't even care if those invitations are actually being used or going in a dustbin, creating hype and pressure for others who are waiting like an idiot and eventually only few are getting it by putting lot of efforts.


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## Anamica23 (Aug 17, 2016)

BulletAK said:


> Thank you for your understanding brother. Yeah, just trying to sort this thing out. In actual, this thing should be handled by DIBP, but unfortunately we cant even demand anything, who cares! They should include these waisted invitations back to the quota but they are just inviting blindly and later don't even care if those invitations are actually being used or going in a dustbin, creating hype and pressure for others who are waiting like an idiot and eventually only few are getting it by putting lot of efforts.


Your words are absolutely true bro...


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## commie_rick (Dec 15, 2012)

Subscribing. I'm an internal auditor and only have that route


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## BulletAK (Sep 21, 2015)

commie_rick said:


> Subscribing. I'm an internal auditor and only have that route


We always have this only route bro, unfortunately.


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## BulletAK (Sep 21, 2015)

Welshtone said:


> I got an Email the other day from a guy asking me to provide a realistic estimate of when he would receive an invitation, and which EOI would it be - he had 6 X 70 point EOIs from April 2017:
> 
> 189 Accountant
> 189 Management Accountant
> ...


Well, I have nothing to say!


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## BulletAK (Sep 21, 2015)

*Accountant students don’t add up*

Australia introduced their Skill Select system in July 2012 in order to invite only the highest quality applicants to migrate to Australia with their high skills. Skills that are identified as being required over the next 10 years.

This has attracted hundreds of thousands of international student who invest 20 billion dollars into our education system every year. It is a massive win to Australia and creates over 100,000 Australian jobs to support these international students.

That is the good side to this story. The bad side is horrific. What is happening to our skill select system and the administrative problems around it that is costing us thousands of highly skilled migrants and turning potential future students off studying here. Never mind the crass unfairness of it all.

In short the skill select system is broken.

To explain the current nightmare we will take an average international student. Let’s assume they are studying an Accounting degree or masters for a typical 2 years or more. They then hope to be selected by Australia for a permanent visa. To ply their trade, help the economy and of course it’s vital for our aging population.

The government put an annual ceiling on how many Accountants they want each year. In the 2016/17 program year this was 2500. They also put a ceiling on the closely related occupation of Auditor (1413). These auditing positions are in affect Accountants as well, just under a different title. So that is 3,913 invitations to lodge a 189 permanent visa that DIBP were intending to hand out. These are then divided up usually into 20 rounds, sometimes more separated 2 weeks apart so that DIBP can ensure that they only invite the top scoring Accountants.

There were likely around 6000 graduate Accountants battling for these sought after 3,913 invitations last program year. Accountants will go out and improve their english much higher than the average Australia university graduate, show exceptional skills in a second language so good that they could be a professional translator or interpreter, they will be of optimum age (25-32) that will allow Australia to tax them well and to fund all our older Australian retirements and they will have paid for all their study out of their own pocket that funds. All to get one of these precious 3,913 places.

Except there are not 3,913 places. Read on …

The skill select system by inviting the highest scoring EOIs (Expression of Interests) from applicants have created opportunity for many flaws in the system

- Many graduates will lodge an EOI for BOTH Accountant and an Auditor to improve their chances. If they are invited as an Accountant they will be stoked of course and in many cases not bother to withdraw their now unneeded EOI as an Auditor. This means that the Auditor EOI when invited takes one “fake” invitation from the yearly intake of that occupation. Worse still, 60 days later when that Auditor EOI is not taken up, it goes back into the system and is invited a second time. And again is not accepted. So that creates two wasted and “fake’ EOIs.

- An EOI lasts just 2 years in the system waiting for a prized invitation. If an applicant improves their points (let’s say from 70 to 75) during this time they will simply update their EOI with the higher score. However this does not extend their 2 year EOI. And so with long waiting periods many students find just about when they will get an invite their EOI expires and they have completely missed out. And they go back to the start of the queue with a new EOI. Students are not dumb though and they have worked out that to protect themselves from this unfairness they can lodge a new EOI every few months. So that if one expires after 2 years, they still have another one alive just a few months younger getting fairly close to an invite. The problem with this is that when finally invited, many students again do not withdraw other unneeded EOIs and those ones end up getting invited twice. So another two “fake” invites

- It gets worse, in the 20th September round someone sabotaged the skill select system and created around 239 fake EOIs as Accountants at a massive 85 points. The affect was that DIBP invited all of those (nobody gets that many points) to lodge a 189 visa. That was the exact number of Accountants that should have got an invite and so all 239 places went to “fake” invites.

The affect of all these “fake” invites can be seen in the 2016/17 figures. DIBP planned to invite a maximum of 3,913 invitations for Accountants and Auditors combined. They in fact sent out this exact amount invites and had completed all their allocation by around April 2016. They should have received 3,913 visa applications as a result, after all these are all highly prized and student graduates are waiting a long time for this. But instead only a paltry 2,534 actually lodged a visa application. That is less than 65%. While thousands of other Accountants are waiting desperately for an invitation we are wasting 35% of them.

It is not just this occupation that DIBP, the country and the students are being short changed in. IT graduates in the main pro rata occupations were over 1500 short of their invitation numbers for 2016/17 as well.

There is a very simple short term solution for this which we have proposed to DIBP many times and continue to get no feedback or response to. If an EOI ( a graduate) does not take up their invitation (whether it be because of double invites or the system being hacked like September) after the 60 days provided, that invitation is sent out AGAIN to hopefully a real person next time. There may be a lag in matching up the numbers but eventually everyone wins. At the moment everyone loses … Especially the student graduates who spent so much money on an Australian education, are so economically beneficial to our country, and believed we would be fair and accountable in our skill select system.

The long term solution is a complete rethink of the skill select system and the many flaws identified in the process.

© Iscah 2017

_Iscah: We will be sending this off to the Minister’s office as well and possibly other government departments._


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## commie_rick (Dec 15, 2012)

Hello bullet how are you


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## BulletAK (Sep 21, 2015)

commie_rick said:


> Hello bullet how are you


Hi bro, I am good. What about you.


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## commie_rick (Dec 15, 2012)

BulletAK said:


> Hi bro, I am good. What about you.


I’m good . Been looking for jobs


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## BulletAK (Sep 21, 2015)

commie_rick said:


> I’m good . Been looking for jobs


Best of luck bro. Do update us as soon as you get one. It might take some time but stick to it and you will get one soon for sure.


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## Bakhtooooooot (Oct 20, 2017)

BulletAK said:


> Best of luck bro. Do update us as soon as you get one. It might take some time but stick to it and you will get one soon for sure.


Bullet Are you already in Australia?


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## BulletAK (Sep 21, 2015)

Bakhtooooooot said:


> Bullet Are you already in Australia?


Nups. Waiting for Visa Invitation.


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## Abhishek.Mathur (Oct 25, 2017)

Hi All,

Read all the posts on this thread...I'm aspiring to apply for the Accountant post for 189 VISA but seems its a distant reality.. Can someone suggest the best possible combination of Points and Skills to be able to crack the same at the earliest as I believe this Skill is Flagged now ?
Thanks in advance..


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## commie_rick (Dec 15, 2012)

Abhishek.Mathur said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Read all the posts on this thread...I'm aspiring to apply for the Accountant post for 189 VISA but seems its a distant reality.. Can someone suggest the best possible combination of Points and Skills to be able to crack the same at the earliest as I believe this Skill is Flagged now ?
> Thanks in advance..


unfortunately there isnt best combination of points or skills. it varies from people. some have aussie education, local experience or even phd.

it is more of what points r u able to obtained with ur means
right now accountants are at 75 points for cut-off. are you able achieve that? if u cant due to lack of experience, perhaps u should wait for a few years later to apply after u have clock more experience . have u done cpa? 
are u single? u can claim spouse points if your spouse meet the requirements


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## Abhishek.Mathur (Oct 25, 2017)

commie_rick said:


> unfortunately there isnt best combination of points or skills. it varies from people. some have aussie education, local experience or even phd.
> 
> it is more of what points r u able to obtained with ur means
> right now accountants are at 75 points for cut-off. are you able achieve that? if u cant due to lack of experience, perhaps u should wait for a few years later to apply after u have clock more experience . have u done cpa?
> are u single? u can claim spouse points if your spouse meet the requirements


Looking at the current scenario, with 70 pts in the kitty, how long will it take to get the grant if i apply in Jan 2018(since I see only 30-40% positions filled so far.)


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## BulletAK (Sep 21, 2015)

> "This is primarily because many people lodge multiple EOIs to overcome some of the flaws of the EOI skill select system. Then when they receive an invitation, they do not withdraw their remaining (now unneeded) EOIs in the system."
> 
> 189 Pro Rata invitations in 2016/17 wasted and not reinvited through Skill Select - Iscah


_And... we have a winner. Guess what? *AUDITORS!* :frusty:_


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