# Fiance Visa - Help / Advice needed



## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Hi all,

Thanks for all the helpful advice on the forums here - my fiancee and I are in the process of applying for a fiancee visa and we had a few specific questions we'd appreciate some input on.

By way of general background, we have been together for over 3 years - she is Brazilian and lives in Brazil, whilst I am from the UK and live in the UK. We have been fortunate enough to regularly have been able to take turns visiting every 3 months or so to each others' country and would now like to make it permanent with her coming to live in the UK with me.

*General Questions:
*

How does it actually work in practice? My fiancee gets a visa that permits her to come to the UK with the intention of getting married within 6 months from the date the visa is granted (or date of arrival in the UK?)? How long is this visa for (e.g. 6 months or 3 years?) Assuming we then do get married, what happens thereafter? Is the visa extended or does she need to leave and apply for another visa, which would obviously be not ideal?

My fiancee is currently in the UK visiting - can she submit the online application whilst here (since we can then do it together) or does she need to wait until returning to Brazil before doing so? If there is any risk we'd rather wait since it will be clear she was technically in the UK at the time of the original application submission.

Given uncertainty of visa granting timing, am I correct that she does not need to have bought flight tickets to the UK but an itinerary print-out suffices?

Are we supposed to show return flight itinerary? If so how long should I show this for from the target departure date (e.g. 2-3 months?)?

Do you need to have a marriage booked? I have read that the policy has changed recently but people still recommend evidence of marriage planning in process?

My fiancee has previously been in a civil partnership and we know we must provide a certified translation of the dissolution certificate, which was issued in 2013. Is it necessary however to request a more recently dated dissolution certificate?


*VAF4A Form:*

6.4 ("Have you been granted any UK visa/EEA Family Permit in the last 10 years") - are we supposed to include tourist visas which have been given to her upon arrival to the UK from Brazil each time she has visited over the past 3+ years?

6.17 ("Have you ever received medical treatment in the UK?") - we once went and visited A&E when she was not very well with high fever and she was given some medication at the hospital and placed in a bed for monitoring for several hours - I do not believe she received an NHS number nor were we asked to pay for anything. What would you recommend we do here? Are we at risk of having a rejected visa since we did not pay for "treatment" even though we were never asked to? Is there any NHS contact number I can use to check what records they have on file or even request to pay for such prior "treatment"?

7.22 ("What date did your sponsor arrive in the UK") - if I have lived in the UK my whole life, are we supposed to put my birthdate?

9 ("Is there any other information you wish to be considered as part of your application?") - is it recommended to put anything in this section (such as list of supporting documents) or left blank?

*Appendix 2 Form:*

1.19 ("Have you lived with your sponsor in a relationship akin to marriage or a civil partnership at any time") - what does this mean exactly? At every opportunity (generally every 3 months) we have taken turns to go to each others' country and lived together for 2 or so weeks and on another occasion we spent 3 consecutive months together in Brazil and travelling around Europe. What is that we should be answering here therefore?

2.8 ("Do you intend to work in the UK?")- why do they ask this question? Is there a specific consideration either way we should be aware of? We were intending to answer it by saying that she does not have any specific job plans set but would like to subsequently get employment once she has the necessary permissions to work.


*Documents:*

Copy of Sponsor Passport Bio Data Page - does this need to be certified or is a simple b&w photocopy sufficient? If certified, how do I do this?

Is it correct that previous sponsor passports are not needed?

Photos for evidence - how many photos would you suggest?

Skype / whatsapp - people mention logs? What sort of sample would be appropriate and I assume people mean full message transcripts?

Bank statements and payslips - the problem I have is that everything is done online now including my payslips, bank statements, mortgage, utility bills, council tax etc. What is worse is my bank has no physical branches (FirstDirect) - any idea / experience as to what I can do here to get necessary certified evidence together?


This is the list of documents we are planning to provide overall:

*Applicant:*
VAF4A Application Form
VAF4A Appendix 2
Current passport (she has no previous passports)
2 UK-sized passport photos
English certificate (CEFR level A1) - she obtained this during the current visit to the UK which we assume is not an issue
Flight Itinerary

*Sponsor:*
Copy of Sponsor Passport Bio Data Page
Cover Letter from sponsor for applicant

*Relationship Evidence:*
Engagement evidence
Planned wedding location
Photos for duration of relationship
Birthday / valentine cards
Previous flight bookings for our respective visits to each other
Evidence of contact (e.g. Skype)
Previous invitation letters from me for her visits to the UK

*Accommodation details:*
Mortgage statement (again only get this via text, nothing postal)
[Land registry details]
Official copy of register of title (not sure how to get this)
Council tax statement in sponsors name (online as well)
[Electoral registration]
Gas and electricity bills in Sponsors name (online as well)

Financial Requirements:
Bank statements (6 most recent) - (online only, understand need stamping but no idea how given it is first direct)
Payslips (6 most recent) plus cover letter from HR department
Most recent P60


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## salix (Apr 27, 2014)

Leoforus said:


> *General Questions:
> *
> 
> How does it actually work in practice? My fiancee gets a visa that permits her to come to the UK with the intention of getting married within 6 months from the date the visa is granted (or date of arrival in the UK?)? How long is this visa for (e.g. 6 months or 3 years?) Assuming we then do get married, what happens thereafter? Is the visa extended or does she need to leave and apply for another visa, which would obviously be not ideal?


You must marry within 6 mos. of the date of issue. Give yourself enough time at the end to apply for the next visa (FLR(M)) in case there is a delay at some point. The visa is valid for 6 mos. You apply for the FLR from within the UK.



Leoforus said:


> My fiancee is currently in the UK visiting - can she submit the online application whilst here (since we can then do it together) or does she need to wait until returning to Brazil before doing so? If there is any risk we'd rather wait since it will be clear she was technically in the UK at the time of the original application submission.


You can fill out the application while she is here in the UK and save it. When she arrives back in Brazil, she can be all ready to submit. I'm assuming Brazil is a country that does online applications, I'm not sure about that.




Leoforus said:


> Given uncertainty of visa granting timing, am I correct that she does not need to have bought flight tickets to the UK but an itinerary print-out suffices?
> 
> Are we supposed to show return flight itinerary? If so how long should I show this for from the target departure date (e.g. 2-3 months?)?
> 
> ...


Just a print out of a potential flight itinerary is all you need. It can be one-way. You can no longer book a provisional wedding date, so provide other evidence of plans. Receipts for rings, dress, photographer, venue, lunch reservation, whatever you may have. No, the official dissolution certificate at the time it was produced is what you need, with the official translation.



Leoforus said:


> *VAF4A Form:*
> 
> 6.4 ("Have you been granted any UK visa/EEA Family Permit in the last 10 years") - are we supposed to include tourist visas which have been given to her upon arrival to the UK from Brazil each time she has visited over the past 3+ years?


Any visas granted should be listed.



Leoforus said:


> 6.17 ("Have you ever received medical treatment in the UK?") - we once went and visited A&E when she was not very well with high fever and she was given some medication at the hospital and placed in a bed for monitoring for several hours - I do not believe she received an NHS number nor were we asked to pay for anything. What would you recommend we do here? Are we at risk of having a rejected visa since we did not pay for "treatment" even though we were never asked to? Is there any NHS contact number I can use to check what records they have on file or even request to pay for such prior "treatment"?


Just because they didn't ask for payment doesn't mean you shouldn't have paid. You should check with where she received treatment to see if you can make arrangements to pay for the service.



Leoforus said:


> 7.22 ("What date did your sponsor arrive in the UK") - if I have lived in the UK my whole life, are we supposed to put my birthdate?


Yes



Leoforus said:


> 9 ("Is there any other information you wish to be considered as part of your application?") - is it recommended to put anything in this section (such as list of supporting documents) or left blank?


Leave blank unless you need to expand on another answer. If something didn't fit in a prior box, notate the question number and put the rest of the information here.



Leoforus said:


> *Appendix 2 Form:*
> 
> 1.19 ("Have you lived with your sponsor in a relationship akin to marriage or a civil partnership at any time") - what does this mean exactly? At every opportunity (generally every 3 months) we have taken turns to go to each others' country and lived together for 2 or so weeks and on another occasion we spent 3 consecutive months together in Brazil and travelling around Europe. What is that we should be answering here therefore?


Time spent together on tourist visas doesn't count. They are looking for joint responsibilities. The form is multi-purpose for people with different circumstances to yours.



Leoforus said:


> 2.8 ("Do you intend to work in the UK?")- why do they ask this question? Is there a specific consideration either way we should be aware of? We were intending to answer it by saying that she does not have any specific job plans set but would like to subsequently get employment once she has the necessary permissions to work.


Answer yes or no based on her intent. You don't need to explain and it won't matter.



Leoforus said:


> *Documents:*
> 
> Copy of Sponsor Passport Bio Data Page - does this need to be certified or is a simple b&w photocopy sufficient? If certified, how do I do this?
> 
> ...


Plain photo copy is all that is needed and no prior passports for the sponsor. 10-15 photos, preferably with friends/family and spread over the length of the relationship. You only want logs of communication, but they must be translated if not in English. One page per 3 months is good.



Leoforus said:


> Bank statements and payslips - the problem I have is that everything is done online now including my payslips, bank statements, mortgage, utility bills, council tax etc. What is worse is my bank has no physical branches (FirstDirect) - any idea / experience as to what I can do here to get necessary certified evidence together?


Bank statements, documents and pay slips must be original or stamped or verified by letter of authenticity. Can you convert to mailed statements?



Leoforus said:


> This is the list of documents we are planning to provide overall:
> 
> *Applicant:*
> VAF4A Application Form
> ...


Add in a cover letter from her.



Leoforus said:


> *Sponsor:*
> Copy of Sponsor Passport Bio Data Page
> Cover Letter from sponsor for applicant
> 
> ...


Cards are meaningless.



Leoforus said:


> *Accommodation details:*
> Mortgage statement (again only get this via text, nothing postal)
> [Land registry details]
> Official copy of register of title (not sure how to get this)
> ...


You don't need the utility bills if you have the Council tax bill. You are just trying to prove your residence. You should add in an employment contract with your employer letter.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

A fiance visa is valid for 6 months. Once married and before the fiance visa expires you apply for FLR (M) from within the UK which is good for 2.5 years. After 2.5 years you renew FLR (M) for another 2.5 years. Additionally, before you apply for each FLR (M) you will have to pay the NHS Surcharge of £500.

There is no work allowed on a fiance visa so answer no to the question does she intend to work.

Any treatment received in A&E is free even to visitors however if she was moved out of A&E then you need to contact the hospital to arrange payment.

If your P60 doesn't cover the period used to meet the financial requirement, leave it out. So, if you are applying before you receive the 2014 P60, you do not need to include the 2013 P60 because it will not cover the 6 months you are using to meet the financial requirement under Category A.

Ask First Direct to send you the last 6 months of bank statements by post. They will be considered originals.


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Thank you both – we really appreciate the quick and helpful input. 

A couple of clarification questions:

1.	You mention logs of communication only should suffice – sorry to be ignorant but what does this mean (i.e. not the actual conversations?) and how can one extract such logs from skype or whatsapp etc?

2.	Documents: FirstDirect will send me bank statements for the last 6 months, the council will send me a council tax statement, my mortgage lender a current mortgage statement and I have a copy of the title register from January of this year. 

a) Is the copy of the title register from January sufficient or should I print out online an “unofficial” new one and provide both? (I assume docs may need to be within the last 3 months or such?) 

b) Do I still need to try to procure details of electoral registration or should the above already suffice (i.e. title register, mortgage statement and council tax bill)? 

c) The mortgage statement and council tax bill will just be as of the current month and not for the past 6 months etc which I assume is fine?

Feedback on a couple other points in case can help anyone else reading this:

1.	Yes, Brazil does online applications.
2.	Medical treatment – I phoned up the hospital and confirmed she was admitted to an Emergency Medical Unit for a few hours within A&E and hence no fee was chargeable.

Thanks again!


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## salix (Apr 27, 2014)

If you go into Skype and click on your contact, at the bottom of the page you'll see a spot to click on for messages and the period of time. Click on one of those links and it will give you a list of calls to that contact, with dates and length. Then just copy and past the list onto a word document and print it out. I believe you can email your list of whatsapp message, but they will include content. I just selected pages that didn't include any personal messages. They aren't looking to view content, summary pages are all you need.

With the bills/council tax/registration, etc., you are just trying to prove your residence, you only need one example. You don't need six months worth, only for your bank statements and pay slips.


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Thanks.

We've now filled out the online form and had a couple of questions before submitting:

1) Documents - when and how does she submit the supporting documents? Is this done at the biometric test centre or do they need to be submitted by post prior to such date? If by post, is there a time limit from the date of the application this needs to be done by? The reason I ask is there is one document from my employer i couldn't get in time and need to post to her in Brazil (by fedex priority at some ridiculous cost!).

2) Type of visa - from searching various fora, it seems like the appropriate selection for a fiance visa is "Settlement - Settlement - Marriage" (rather than e.g. Proposed Civil Partnership)? 

3) How long do you plan to stay in the UK? - the answer is indefinitely but subject to obviously not breaching any visas. I understand the initial fiance visa is only for 6 months but can then be extended from within the UK for a further 2.5 years - so what should one put here? 6 months, 2.5 years or indefinitely?

4) Have you been issued any visa for the UK, UK Overseas Territories or Commonwealth Country in the last 10 years? 

This question is still troubling us - firstly, they ask you to list every single visa (see contrast to below with respect to visits to the UK which are just up to the last 5) and secondly they want to know:
Type of Visa Issued
Date of Issue
Date of Expiry
Issuing Authority 

She has never had to formally pre-apply for a visa but instead been granted a "tourist visa" on arrival - looking at the stamps in her passport however they do not mention the word visa and simply are a rectangular stamp that says “Immigration Officer”, then “*”, then a number, then “#”, then a date (when stamp given), and then name of the airport. Above some of them it says “Leave to enter for 6 months; employment and recourse to public funds prohibited”.

If these are Visas that should be entered how do we answer the date of expiry question? (always just add 6 months?) and, more challengingly, the authority question? (the text goes into more detail and says "What authority issued your visa i.e. British Embassy, High Commission, Consulate" which doesn't make any sense here)

5) Have you ever travelled to the UK in the last 10 years? Please Enter Details of up to your 5 most recent visits

I assume that means she only needs to specify the last 5 then? This is different to the physical form we have studied so far which doesn’t restrict to 5 and is a bit odd since there was one time she came to the UK for 2 weeks but in that period went to Amsterdam and then Paris for short breaks... so this appears as 3 visits to the UK alone! Also contrasts with the above visa question.

Thanks again all!


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Hi all - sorry to bump but if anyone could provide some thoughts on the above would really be appreciated - we are just keen to submit the application as soon as poss. Thanks!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

#1 At the biometric appointment. Read UK Visa Information - Brazil
#2 Yes, correct.
#3 6 months - the length of the visa - will be fine.
#4 Only visas she has actually obtained in advance, not a stamp at the border.
#5 Go by the online form. If it asks for 5 most recent visits, then list them.


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Thank you so much Joppa! I hope you are right re.4 since i always thought they were technically "tourist visas" even though just stamps at the border but would be odd otherwise I guess..


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

No. A visa is called entry clearance and is issued by UK visa office overseas. What you get at the border is called 'leave' and the stamp is 'leave to enter'. It will activate your entry clearance if it's already in your passport, or gives you permission to enter UK under a specified category such as a visitor.


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Joppa said:


> No. A visa is called entry clearance and is issued by UK visa office overseas. What you get at the border is called 'leave' and the stamp is 'leave to enter'. It will activate your entry clearance if it's already in your passport, or gives you permission to enter UK under a specified category such as a visitor.


ok got it, thanks


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

One more thing - I just discovered that since the beginning of this year Brazil visa applications now all get processed in Bogota rather than in the city of application such as Rio. Quite annoying since Rio had reputedly super-fast processing times.

Has anyone had any experience of processing times in Bogota and if there is any known backlog etc given it seems to now be processing for the whole of South America! On this basis, would the recommendation, notwithstanding the additional cost, be to pay for the priority service?

A few days versus a week is fine but the idea of waiting 60 working days would be a nightmare!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

There are some Bogotá applications in the thread http://www.expatforum.com/expats/br...uk/30135-post-your-uk-visa-timeline-here.html


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Ok thanks. She is just about to sign the declaration and it says "the photograph submitted with this form is a true likeness of me" - what photograph? She hasn't been asked to upload one etc and would assume this is delivered as part of the physical document package at the biometric centre?


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Leoforus said:


> Ok thanks. She is just about to sign the declaration and it says "the photograph submitted with this form is a true likeness of me" - what photograph? She hasn't been asked to upload one etc and would assume this is delivered as part of the physical document package at the biometric centre?


Anyone know the answer to this one by chance? Thanks.


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## Water Dragon (Jun 28, 2011)

Just a quick mention, since I didn't see it in any of the posts. Your latest payslip and statement can't be any older than 28 days prior to date of application (usually the date you apply and pay online).

Sorry, I don't know the answer to your last question.


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Water Dragon said:


> Just a quick mention, since I didn't see it in any of the posts. Your latest payslip and statement can't be any older than 28 days prior to date of application (usually the date you apply and pay online).
> 
> Sorry, I don't know the answer to your last question.


Thanks - my company payslips normally come out on the 25th - she is applying online today/tomorrow from Brazil with the last 6 months, the most recent one being issued on 25th March. We are relying on the fact it is the date you apply/pay online since she is not able to fly to Rio for another 2 weeks for the appointment...

can anyone confirm it is indeed the online application date rather than the date she physically goes to the biometric centre and submits supporting documents?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Yes, as Water Dragon has already said, pay slips, bank statement and also the letter of employment can be no more than 28 days old at the time of online application.


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

nyclon said:


> Yes, as Water Dragon has already said, pay slips, bank statement and also the letter of employment can be no more than 28 days old at the time of online application.


Thanks - just being extra cautious so always good to get two affirmations! you know anything re the photo question on the online application given she has not been asked to submitted a photo online at all?


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Also I didn't think so from reading elsewhere, but one of the government guidance forms mentions birth certificates... is this required in our case for the fiance visa?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

You submit 2 passport photos with a printed copy of the online application, Appendix 2 and all your other supporting documents.


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Ok, just badly worded / designed then - it implies it is asking for confirmation re a photo you have already submitted rather than one that you will do!

And birth certificates? Are these needed for just the applicant and not the sponsor?


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

Birth certificates aren't needed. Your passport is proof of age.


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Ok. Just contacted my local council town hall regarding a marriage ceremony and got this response:

"Thank you for your email.

You can provisionally book a ceremony (a £100 non-refundable but transferable deposit ((£35 admin charge for any moves)) needed to secure a booking )

The visa process might require that you have a marriage booked in so this might be helpful. You will not be able to book your notice of intent until you have the visa and you know when she will be coming to the UK.

To check availability and to book please visit our website.

If you have any other questions please get in touch.

Kind Regards"

This seems to contradict all the latest advice I have been reading here regarding not being able to book a ceremony prior to visa being obtained if one of you is a non-EEA national?

What is the recommended advice here (or even how to respond!)? The main challenge seems to be that to give notice, both persons need to have lived in England for 8 days, then the notice is a minimum of 29 days (but can be extended to 71 by UKVI) and only then can you get married... so sure we could book an appointment but the likelihood of needing to amend it is pretty significant! Saying that, at the risk of a £35 admin fee, may not be bad to get a potential date locked-in... unless of course it might be a negative for the visa application itself!

Thanks!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Some register offices seem to continue booking provisional marriage ceremony involving a non-EEA citizen, but others don't.


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Ok - but it wouldn't be a risk to our visa application to book one? Would it potentially help?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I don't think it makes any difference. As many register offices refuse to book a marriage involving non-EEA citizen without requisite visa, people in that position must find other ways of showing intention to marry which are acceptable to Home Office.


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## preetika (Apr 23, 2015)

*help needed i dont know where to post my question*

Hello everyone,

I live in Canada from past 3 years on work permit status. I am engaged to a British Citizen. Its been a year we are dating each other and got engaged in Dec 2014. I visited England about a month ago to meet him and his family. My question Is now we are looking to get married this September 2015 and I need fiancé visa to go get married there In England- financial requirement is 18,600 annually my fiancé got a pay rise in February only, so are we good to apply? Or we need to wait for 6 months- Feb till august?? 6 months pay slips needed to be according to 18,600?
Can someone please help me?
That would be greatly appreciated 


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## pyvday (Apr 23, 2015)

Good evening,

You all seem extremely helpful to Leoforus so I was desperately hoping you could help me and my fiancé. I am British and my fiancé Moroccan. To keep our families happy we have decided to get married in the U.K rather than the beautiful Morocco, and seems to be at a great cost to us!

We think we must complete the VAF4A with appendix 2, and believe we have all of our documentation ready to submit. After marriage next February (we have already booked our venue to secure the date, hence us wanting to get this completely right!) my fiancé will apply to convert to a spousal visa to stay in the U.K with me after marriage (of course before his fiancé visa expires). I really don't want him to have to go back to Morocco when we're married! Will it be the FLR(M) form he must complete? And does that mean we have to pay for an entire new visa application, or will it just convert at a concessionary cost because we're already paying £956 for a 6 month fiancé visa? 

Also, the Immigration Health Surcharge has stumped us... After registering on said website we found there is no Fiancé option, only Husband/Wife. Unmarried Partner tells us we'll have to pay £600 for a six month visa?? We had advice to pay £600 and the Home Office would reimburse us £500 at a later date they couldn't state. This fills me with dread because it doesn't make sense at all, and we could potentially lose a lot of money. Also, we just don't have £600 right now. I understand having to pay it for our upcoming spousal visa, but why so much for 6 months? I called HO and all they could tell me for free was that he doesn't have to pay IHS as his visa will be granted for 6 months or less, and we only pay when applying for spousal visa. I hope this is correct, but I wonder if they're not understanding he will be settling here after, or think that he's applying for a marriage visitor visa which is completely different, even though I tried to make it as clear as poss.
We just need the visa to be approved for our upcoming marriage so don't want any problems with payment for this surcharge, so is anyone able to clarify it at all please? This conflicting advice has left us not submitting yet out of fear we'll have our application rejected and lost our £956 visa fee!

Any help would be most appreciated, and thank you in advance.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Yes, FLR(M) after marriage, and yes, you have to pay £649 or £1049 for same-day premium service.
No need to pay IHS for fiancée visa as it's only valid 6 months. You have to pay it when going for FLR(M).


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## pyvday (Apr 23, 2015)

Joppa said:


> Yes, FLR(M) after marriage, and yes, you have to pay £649 or £1049 for same-day premium service.
> No need to pay IHS for fiancée visa as it's only valid 6 months. You have to pay it when going for FLR(M).


Thanks so much for your reply Joppa. The knowledge I have seen you post on this site eases my worry!

Can I just ask then: Is the VAF4 application technically a 'Tourist Visa' as it's <6 months, and so won't require an IHS number? Looking in detail at the VAF4 form I can't see it asking for an IHS number, but it's just I sought advice from a solicitor I paid for who told me I would still need to provide it. Needless to say, I don't trust their advice so am seeking answers myself!

After telling the solicitor this information I was then told to get proof in writing to submit with our application to say it's not needed and why I don't get an IHS number. Is that stated anywhere specifically?

Thanks ever so much again!


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## salix (Apr 27, 2014)

You don't need to pay the NHS charge for a fiancé visa as it's for six months or less. You will need to pay the charge for the next visa FLR(M).

If I were you, I'd question the service I was being provided by a solicitor that doesn't know the rules.


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## pyvday (Apr 23, 2015)

salix said:


> You don't need to pay the NHS charge for a fiancé visa as it's for six months or less. You will need to pay the charge for the next visa FLR(M).
> 
> If I were you, I'd question the service I was being provided by a solicitor that doesn't know the rules.


Hi Salix, 

Yes, I have questioned them profusely! The issue is we have already paid for the service so feel inclined to continue, but we now just double-check everything!

I wonder if you can help me please. Solicitor has just told me that we shouldn't apply for Fiancé visa until end of May. Our wedding is all booked for 14/02/2016, and she says this will give us enough time to then convert to FLR(M). I understand that as we obviously don't want to have rush stress after we marry, but I was told we can post-date the application for when we want him to arrive in the UK (I also see it on the application!) and we planned my fiancé to arrive mid-September. Solicitor has advised me that HO don't always abide by that and can grant the visa immediately. And if this was the case then the 6 months granted could be before our wedding! 

When do you think is best for us to apply? I'm conscious of worst case scenario and the visa not being granted, and needing time to go through the whole process again with enough time to ensure he is here for our booked wedding!

Thanks for any help in advance!


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## salix (Apr 27, 2014)

You can only apply at most three months before you intend to travel. They might grant the visa for the day you request or as I've seen in most cases (mine included), the start date for the visa is the day they made the decision.

You must marry within six months of the effective date of the visa, and it would be best to do it within five months to give you some leeway in your application for the following FLR(M).


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## salix (Apr 27, 2014)

So the timings are -

Can only apply for fiancé visa three months in advance.
Must marry within six months of the effective date of visa.
Must apply for FLR(M) before the fiancé visa expires (and you must be married with marriage certificate in hand).
Must be in the UK nine days before Giving Notice of Marriage.
Must Give Notice at least 28 days before the wedding.

So map it all out on a calendar and plan accordingly.


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## pyvday (Apr 23, 2015)

salix said:


> So the timings are -
> 
> Can only apply for fiancé visa three months in advance.
> Must marry within six months of the effective date of visa.
> ...


Thanks Salix!!!

I've worked out that we should apply for the VAF4 August 14th, to then hopefully get a decision within 30 days (September 14th) as most say happens. 
It will then expire (if granted Sept 14th) March 14th - giving us a month leeway to transfer to FLR(M).

The issue I now have is that it's all very up in the air and it worries me that we have to base a lot of things on when the HO decide to give us the visa. With our wedding actually booked for February 14th I don't like risking my fiancé not being here!

It now crosses my mind that maybe it will be easier to get married in Morocco, get the marriage certificate so my fiancé can come over simply on a spousal visa instead, and have the "real wedding" here in the UK on 14/02/2016 as is booked. What do you think?


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## Water Dragon (Jun 28, 2011)

pyvday said:


> Thanks Salix!!!
> 
> I've worked out that we should apply for the VAF4 August 14th, to then hopefully get a decision within 30 days (September 14th) as most say happens.
> It will then expire (if granted Sept 14th) March 14th - giving us a month leeway to transfer to FLR(M).
> ...


You only have to apply for FLR(M) before the 6 months are up; it isn't required that it be received beforehand. While it is being processed, he is allowed to be here. Since the requirements are basically the same, plus the marriage proof, if he gets the fiancé visa, he should also get FLR(M).

The main advantage is to avoid paying for 2 visas so close to each other.


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## pyvday (Apr 23, 2015)

Water Dragon said:


> You only have to apply for FLR(M) before the 6 months are up; it isn't required that it be received beforehand. While it is being processed, he is allowed to be here. Since the requirements are basically the same, plus the marriage proof, if he gets the fiancé visa, he should also get FLR(M).
> 
> The main advantage is to avoid paying for 2 visas so close to each other.


Thanks WaterDragon, I didn't know that! That means that maybe my fiancé can come early September, and then we'll have a couple of weeks after marriage to apply for FLR(M). We're hoping to do it on the premium service anyway, and because we'll be updating similar paperwork it shouldn't be too complicated to update.

Do you know then, can he still use the same TB certificate (given 26/03/15), Property Inspection Report (given 10/04/15 and we'll still be living there), and English Lang requirement (passed 16/03/14) to apply for the FLR(M)? Or will we have to do all of these things again?

Thanks!!


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## Water Dragon (Jun 28, 2011)

pyvday said:


> Thanks WaterDragon, I didn't know that! That means that maybe my fiancé can come early September, and then we'll have a couple of weeks after marriage to apply for FLR(M). We're hoping to do it on the premium service anyway, and because we'll be updating similar paperwork it shouldn't be too complicated to update.
> 
> Do you know then, can he still use the same TB certificate (given 26/03/15), Property Inspection Report (given 10/04/15 and we'll still be living there), and English Lang requirement (passed 16/03/14) to apply for the FLR(M)? Or will we have to do all of these things again?
> 
> Thanks!!


I'm not positive about your 3 questions, but from what I've read, I'm pretty sure that all 3 are current enough to use again. But.....to be sure, please wait for a reply from someone with more details. 

If you use premium one day service, you shouldn't have any problem at all. If everything is straightforward and you have the marriage certificate, a couple of wedding photos, and updated current financial documents, I can't see any reason why you wouldn't get your decision the same day.


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## skyf (Mar 26, 2015)

Check the validity of the English Test as the process changed from this month and I believe some English test Certificates issued before 1 st April will not be valid after November this year.


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## pyvday (Apr 23, 2015)

skyf said:


> Check the validity of the English Test as the process changed from this month and I believe some English test Certificates issued before 1 st April will not be valid after November this year.


Hi Skyf. Thanks! I've just checked and you are correct - his English test certificate is only valid until 5th November 2015 as he took it before 6th April 2015. Whilst in the UK he will have to pass another English Test that will be valid for 2 years, and this is what he will have to submit with the FLR(M).

His tuberculosis test and police check both expire in September so although valid for our Fiancé application, will be expired upon submission of FLR(M). Are these things necessary to be submitted for FLR(M) once in the UK?? He's unable to travel on the Fiancé visa anyway so as long as he leaves Morocco without TB, it must be assumed he hasn't contracted it whilst here so isn't needed, correct? Same with the police check - if he's not gone back to Morocco there is no way for him to commit crime anyway, and whilst in UK he won't commit crime, so will he need a UK Police Check?

So grateful for everyone's kind help so far! Thanks!


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## skyf (Mar 26, 2015)

The format for English Test at certain levels has also changed,which you need to check with the Approved Examination centre. We used Trinity College in February and they are still approved.

Am fairly sure the Police check is valid for 6 months.

The TB test may require to be done again, there is a list of Countries on the Visas and Immigration website which classifies areas which are considered high risk.


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Hi guys,

Does anyone else think that the VFS Global website is possibly the worst thing to ever exist? Another great example of the UK government outsourcing at over-priced contracts that the suppliers miserably fail to deliver upon..

So my fiance wanted to buy the user pay services - visa priority and courier

When she went to pay there was a fraud check - so the card company contacted us, confirmed it wasn't fraud and then said try again. So she went back and tried again and then got an email saying:

"Thank you for payment through VFS website. 
Please print the attached online transaction receipt and carry the copy to the UK Visa Application Centre."

However the attachment says "Transaction Status: Transaction not successful"

Of course the credit card shows a pending transaction but it won't appear for a few days so difficult to use that as evidence..

Now whenever we try to go back to the VFS global website quick links section:

(1) Retrieve receipt - completely broken since won't recognise any surname we try at all - she has a multi-part surname, being Brazilian, and whilst the original application and vfs global website show the correct name the email and faulty receipt show completely random mix of her names! (e.g. real name is "A De B C D" and addresses her as "De B C D A B C D"!! Still can't get any combination to work though.

(2) Track previous order - every time we go back to this page and try to correct, remove, or add the courier service the website is completely broken... firstly, no copy and paste accepted, no ability to remove things from the shopping cart and every time we click continue it adds ANOTHER priority service - see this rather hilarious attachment which shows we now have a shopping cart of R$16282!!

So naturally you'd then want to phone up tech support to fix...

I did that - "Sir, we can't talk to you unless you give us credit card details for this £1.37 per minute premium service" - after trying everything to explain it was a broken website, I give yet more money to them.. 10 minutes later, "Sorry, sir, we cannot help you here - I will email you an email address you can contact" (ANOTHER £10 gone on something already insanely over-priced when you consider the £400+ for priority service alone given someone had the wise idea of cutting services and having the only processing centre being in Bogota in the WHOLE of South America)

Email contact address arrives - so we send an email explaining all the above problems and fact she is flying to Rio next Tuesday so it is rather urgent.

Automated response - "we can take up to 21 days to respond".

So I think I'll also email through the online government system - only 200 characters accepted and no attachments.

This is an ABSOLUTE JOKE. We have wasted hours trying to rectify this, constantly getting charged more and more money (running at well over £2000 now for application, visa priority, courier service, 5 minute language test despite she being fluent in English, flights to Rio, hotel in Rio, premium phone calls) and yet ZERO service or ability to get the services we have paid for and no ability to contact anyone for the most broken and useless website I have EVER seen!!

She already can't wait for the impending experience in Rio De Janeiro next Thursday at the submission centre!

Anyone have any advice? 

Great start to bank holiday weekend 

PS: sorry but I had to vent somewhere... tempted to get my credit card to block the payment to the VFS Global premium service but not sure that meet's the usual conditions!


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Anyone manage to get any email address or physical address of the VFS Global company to make a complaint too? In the end she used my credit card statement to prove we had actually paid BUT I checked my credit card statement and the 5 minute phone call to the support number to try to fix their own website failure was charged for £24!!!

*super* p!ssed off with this dodgy capitalist outsourcing - I am British and its stressful enough... I feel very sorry for others

Any advice?


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

By way of update my fiance received today the following email:

Subject line: GWF00000000 UK Visa Application Status Update 3: FIRST NAME LAST NAME - GWF00000000

Message: The decision on your application for Entry Clearance has been made. Your passport and original documents will now be returned to you. Please see below for the return instructions of your documents in relation to which country you applied in.

I assume there is nothing that can be inferred as to whether this is an approval or rejection until she receives the documents back?

Thanks!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

No. There are no hidden clues or messages. It means exactly what it says. She'll know the results when her documents and passport are returned.


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Ok, thanks. And do they provide a letter explaining their decision? (e.g. if you have a rejection and want to appeal)

Sorry, a bit nervous!


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

If you are rejected there will be a letter of explanation as to what points you failed on and whether you have the right to appeal.


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Hi all,

Just to update you - my fiance received yesterday her documents back via Sedex in Brazil (went from Bogota back to Rio application centre and then onto her).

I am pleased to say there was no letter but a stamp in her visa!! Thank you so much to everyone for their advice - specifically Nyclon and Joppa - it really is a kind and selfless service.

So overall timing not too bad albeit with the benefit of the very expensive priority service!

One thing that is left confusing us: her Visa stamp says "Valid from: 03/06/15" but then "Valid until: 03/07/15" albeit it does say "Entries: Mult"

This is only a month when we thought this would be a 6 month visa? The reason we are also concerned is we had planned to go on holiday to Europe during July and August and therefore a bit worried as to whether she is allowed to do this and will be permitted re-entry!

Any advice?

Many thanks


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## skyf (Mar 26, 2015)

Leoforus said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just to update you - my fiance received yesterday her documents back via Sedex in Brazil (went from Bogota back to Rio application centre and then onto her).
> 
> ...


Check the visa date as Fiancee Visa's are for 6 months.

The Multi means she is allowed to enter and re-enter as she wishes within the period of the Visa dates.


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

It seems like an error was made. If you applied for a fiance visa is should have been issued for 6 months, not 1 month. You need to contact them and get it straightened out before she travels.


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## secretlobster (Mar 2, 2015)

I don't wish to sound rude, but are you sure this is the VISA and not the VIGNETTE?

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/br...711666-new-brp-rules-overseas-applicants.html


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## nyclon (Apr 3, 2011)

secretlobster said:


> I don't wish to sound rude, but are you sure this is the VISA and not the VIGNETTE?
> 
> http://www.expatforum.com/expats/br...711666-new-brp-rules-overseas-applicants.html


The OP applied for a fiance visa. 30 day vignettes are issued for visas of longer than 6 months so wouldn't be issued for a fiance visa.


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## secretlobster (Mar 2, 2015)

Ah yes, could be that they issued a spouse visa instead. I hope they're able to clear it up soon.


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

By way of update - my fiance received an email back from the Bogota visa office. Amazingly, they confirmed that an error had indeed been made and the date was incorrectly inserted as expiring in 1-month only on the visa.

Pretty annoying given all the cost and fact we paid extra for priority service!

Anyhow, following further email exchange/requests, they said she could travel to the UK last week on the 1-month visa and provided a pdf letter (from the UK Embassy in Bogota) for us to send along with her passport to the "Referred Casework Unit" (being an address in Croydon in the UK). We have down this now and will hopefully receive back the correct passport soon!

As a general tip for others, we found the support availability through the visa process *terrible* - the £1.70+/minute phone line was beyond useless, and the online support forms came back with generic meaningless responses about a week later - the only one where we had surprisingly helpful and prompt responses from was "[email protected]" (this is ironically supposed to be for complaints only and is evidently a Brazilian address so you will need to find other countries' equivalents, but all our help came from here). 

On one occasion we even sent the same request to the online form and this email asking why it was taking so long to receive the documents back via courier (it took 2 days to get from Bogota to Rio and then > 7 days from there) - the email address came back with a Sedex tracking code, whilst the official support just delivered a cut-and-paste "Your documents are in transit" email 3 days later AFTER she had received them already!


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Separate question:

So she is currently on the 6 month marriage visa and I understand she is unable to work (nor receive NHS treatment without paying nor "access to public funds").

My question is: clearly she is now permitted to reside here for 6 months and we will then roll into a further 2.5 year visa once married. What is she allowed to do already now in terms of laying permanent foundations here?

e.g. is she permitted to apply for any kind of national registrations? Should she be listed as resident here to the council? Can she apply for bank accounts or can I get a credit-card (under my financial guarantee) in her name?

Obviously we would like to get all of this underway sooner rather than later but don't want to jeopardise anything if there is any risk at all.

Thanks for the advice


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

As she can't work, she can't yet get NI number.
Whether she can open a bank account or get credit card is a matter for the bank, not Home Office. Normally they require a long-term visa before allowing people to open an account or even be a joint account holder, but you need to ask your bank specifically. Some may be more flexible. As she has no credit record/history in UK, it will be difficult to get a credit card in her own right (even after getting spouse visa) but there should be no problems getting a supplementary card on your card account. Again it's up to your card issuer. 
There is no registration requirement with local council in UK, but it should be possible for her to be listed on council tax statement, which may act as proof of address.
As you can see, it makes sense to get married and apply for leave to remain sooner than later.


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Understood - thanks as usual for quick response.


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Question about healthcare and what's the optimal way to handle it.. 

My fiance recently got an inflamed lump around her ear that was very tender to the touch - so we went to an NHS walk-in centre, and paid £50 to be seen by a GP. Her consultation lasted all of 3 minutes - apparently he refused to even touch it, said it was an ear infection and gave her some antibiotics.

2 days later and it is inflamed even more and is extremely tender to the touch - we went back, explained the situation and got told "That will be another £50 please but we have no appointments today".

Now I appreciate she is only here on a 6-month visa but I perversely wish she had been given the choice to pay the NHS surcharge and actually have available health treatment already! It is all rather frustrating since we know how dismissive/unhelpful GPs can be and it takes repeated visits and seems a bit unfair.. We are not adverse to paying a fair amount but this risks being just silly.

Can anyone recommend how one would ordinarily handle this on a 6-month visa when healthcare is obviously an important aspect?

Many thanks.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Get health/travel insurance from one's own country? If you were holidaying/visiting US, you wouldn't dream of going there without travel insurance, and it should be the same.


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Ok - often excess is the problem here so you still need to pay £50 every time you go and see an often unhelpful GP for 3 minutes!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Or can you get excess waiver? I always do with my annual travel insurance for about £30 extra, but I don't know if it's available in other countries' policies.


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## Lcss (Aug 24, 2015)

Hi Leoforus, 

I'm brazilian applying from Brazil to get the fiancee visa and be able to get married to my boyfriend who is scottish and then apply to spouse visa after marriage. 

I tried to send you a msg but couldn't so i guess i shoud ask here... As I'm on a similar situation as yours, I was wondering if your fiancee got the visa already and if so, how long did it take to be approved? Was everything allright?Did she pay IHS? Did she chose Rio de Janeiro to deliver her documents?

I'm sorry to bother if I'm not supposed to make a question on your post. Thanks!


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## Lcss (Aug 24, 2015)

Sorry, just now I saw she got the visa! Congratulations =D 

How long did it take for her to get an appointment in Rio when she applied online? 

I didn't know visas were now being processed in Bogota and from what I read in blogs Rio were appearently very quick in making the decisions (about 10 days!). So she delivered docs in Rio, they sent docs to Bogota and then back to her? How long did it take for visa being granted since she delivered the docs in Rio? I understand you paid for priority service, but I'm asking just to have an idea. 

I was reading some brazilian blogs and some people said they sent birth certificate and nothing to declare from the federal police. Did your fiancee sent it? I'm not sure if I should send mine.

Thanks again!


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## Kenel (Jul 11, 2015)

Hi Lcss

I applied on 05/07/2015 and biometric 07/07/15 (no priority - são paulo). Today is 33 work days and I have not received any mail about the decision. I am waiting...
About docs, I am widow but i sent birth certificate and marriage certificate and certificate from the federal police too.


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## Lcss (Aug 24, 2015)

Hi Kenel, thanks for the answer! 
You sent the online certificate or the one you get personally? 
You got any stamp on your docs to certify them (ministério das relações exteriores ou cartório)?


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Hi all,

Not sure if supposed to start new thread but we have now gotten married (after a painful 6 week wait to get the visa endorsement error corrected and being forced to re-schedule the ceremony)!

Next step is the FLR(M) visa (can’t believe it’s another £1049 for a priority service plus £500 for NHS surcharge so soon but anyway..)

We had a few questions for the experts here:

Is this the correct form? (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/447242/FLR_M__04-15.pdf) We have completed this to take with us to the appointment in Croydon but it’s a little odd since the first few pages are all about how you want to make payment but we were forced to make payment in full in order to book the appointment. I assume we just leave this section blank?

Biometric Residence Permit: I assume this is something we obtain and pay for –after- she obtains the FLR(M) visa or do we need to do anything before?

Question 2.2: it says “Is this the first time you have applied for a visa or extension of stay in one of the above categories (including previous leave granted as a fiancé or proposed civil partner) with your current sponsor?” – this seems to be contradictory – it is the first time she has applied in any one of the above categories (none of the categories are the fiancé visa) so would suggest answering YES, but she did have previously the 6-month fiancé visa so the section in brackets suggests the answer should possibly be NO. What should we complete here? (Given question 2.3 which follows I would guess the answer is NO and general consensus seems to agree from searching elsewhere)

Section 7A – I assume I need to provide updated original payslips from my employer? (i.e. we can’t rely on the ones she took to Rio back in June – a bit of hassle since I need to get my employer to write a letter to confirm the electronic payslips are valid etc)

Section 13 Police Registration Certificate – she was not ever notified to register with the police but just wanted to double-check if she should have been told and not answering this might cause issues? The fact is she wasn’t and she hasn’t so not sure much we can do other than a delayed registration now…

Six items of correspondence – the form doesn’t say anything about these not being required if it is a visa application following a short 6-month visa such as the fiancé one. I have tried updating as many utility bills as possible etc but most don’t provide a new bill on demand so at best we will have only one or two such items. Advice I have read elsewhere is this shouldn’t be relevant following a fiancé visa but I assume we should just provide what we can (which may only be one or two items) and then right a short cover note?



Documents we will definitely have:
•	Both passports
•	Original of marriage certificate
•	2x passport photos for her, 1x passport photo for me
•	English language certificate (luckily she did this before 6th April and her visa appointment is before November or we’d be needing to do even this again – please tell me she doesn’t need to do this again in 2.5 years?!)
•	Payslips for financial requirements issue
•	1 or 2 photos of us at the ceremony

Anything else missing that comes to mind?

Thanks guys!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Leoforus said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Not sure if supposed to start new thread but we have now gotten married (after a painful 6 week wait to get the visa endorsement error corrected and being forced to re-schedule the ceremony)!
> 
> ...


Yes, correct form, and leave payment section blank.



> Biometric Residence Permit: I assume this is something we obtain and pay for –after- she obtains the FLR(M) visa or do we need to do anything before?


You get one with your FLR(M) application.



> Question 2.2: it says “Is this the first time you have applied for a visa or extension of stay in one of the above categories (including previous leave granted as a fiancé or proposed civil partner) with your current sponsor?” – this seems to be contradictory – it is the first time she has applied in any one of the above categories (none of the categories are the fiancé visa) so would suggest answering YES, but she did have previously the 6-month fiancé visa so the section in brackets suggests the answer should possibly be NO. What should we complete here? (Given question 2.3 which follows I would guess the answer is NO and general consensus seems to agree from searching elsewhere)


Answer No, as you already have a fiancé visa.



> Section 7A – I assume I need to provide updated original payslips from my employer? (i.e. we can’t rely on the ones she took to Rio back in June – a bit of hassle since I need to get my employer to write a letter to confirm the electronic payslips are valid etc)


Yes. While there seems to be a concession whereby those applying for FLR following fiancé(e) visa can submit the same documentation, it's best to be cautious and send updated documents. 



> Section 13 Police Registration Certificate – she was not ever notified to register with the police but just wanted to double-check if she should have been told and not answering this might cause issues? The fact is she wasn’t and she hasn’t so not sure much we can do other than a delayed registration now…


Not needed.



> Six items of correspondence – the form doesn’t say anything about these not being required if it is a visa application following a short 6-month visa such as the fiancé one. I have tried updating as many utility bills as possible etc but most don’t provide a new bill on demand so at best we will have only one or two such items. Advice I have read elsewhere is this shouldn’t be relevant following a fiancé visa but I assume we should just provide what we can (which may only be one or two items) and then right a short cover note?


As you haven't been together for long, just supply what you have.



> Documents we will definitely have:
> •	Both passports
> •	Original of marriage certificate
> •	2x passport photos for her, 1x passport photo for me
> ...


Sponsor's British passport can be plain photocopy.
No need to repeat English test. Only at ILR stage if she hasn't passed at B1.
You need employment letter and bank statement for your current job. A few more photos will help, esp taken with other relatives.


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## Leoforus (Apr 9, 2015)

Many thanks, Joppa, for the quick and clear reply as usual - let me know your favourite charity (post or PM) and I will make a donation as a small thank-you gesture!


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## xcrossthepond (Mar 6, 2015)

Thanks, this just answered one of my main questions!


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