# Can spousal visas applications be filed from within the UK



## Minuvweyna (Aug 6, 2008)

I am in the UK currently on a student visa, and met my fiance almost immediately after my arrival. I will be finishing my course and switching to a Tier 1 Post Study visa (which will allow me to stay and work freely for 2 years). This means that I will have a current visa through January 2011. My fiance and I plan to marry in Sept 2010, so I will not have immediate visa problems. However, I have been told that the Post Study visa requires that I switch into a more permanant visa as soon as possible (and since time on a Post Study visa does not count toward Indefinite Leave to Remain or Citizenship I am happy to switch immediately to a Spousal visa).

However, I am not seeing instructions for applying for a Spousal visa from WITHIN the UK. I will be resident legally, so it seems odd that I might be required to leave the country in order to apply to change visa types. I don't like the idea of having to take my honeymoon in the US, especially since if the visa takes longer than expected, it could make our planned return to the UK problematic. I doubt many employers would be overly understanding if I were to get stranded for an extra week or two in the US...

I've scoured every web page I can find for this information, and even emailed the Home Office (who never replied, despite the fact that the address was for questions not answered by their website).

Has anyone gotten married while legally resident in the UK and switched to a Spousal visa?

Any help would be extremely helpful!

Elizabeth


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## izzysmum04 (Nov 26, 2007)

*Hi, Elizabeth! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you will have to return to the US to apply for a spousal visa, as it can only be applied for within the applicants home country, I'm afraid. That is why there are no instructions for anyone to apply within UK. Good luck with everything!*


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## Minuvweyna (Aug 6, 2008)

izzysmum04 said:


> *Hi, Elizabeth! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you will have to return to the US to apply for a spousal visa, as it can only be applied for within the applicants home country, I'm afraid. That is why there are no instructions for anyone to apply within UK. Good luck with everything!*


Any idea how long the application will take? Talk about putting a damper on good honeymoon plans...

My student visa only took a couple of weeks to get back, but do spousal visas take longer? If it takes much longer than a couple of weeks I'll undoubtedly be loosing my job when the time comes to apply... =/


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## izzysmum04 (Nov 26, 2007)

Minuvweyna said:


> Any idea how long the application will take? Talk about putting a damper on good honeymoon plans...
> 
> My student visa only took a couple of weeks to get back, but do spousal visas take longer? If it takes much longer than a couple of weeks I'll undoubtedly be loosing my job when the time comes to apply... =/


*Mine took about 2 weeks to receive, but that was 5 years ago. I am not certain what the turn around time is now. Can't see that it would be any longer than that, but just can't say for certain. *


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## Shipresa (Dec 9, 2008)

I recently received my spousal visa. It took one day out of the Los Angeles Embassy.

From experience in other consulates/embassies, using a known agent helps, and the LA British Embassy was helpful. An agent also ensures everything necessary is included, and I learned many items which are not on the Home Office lists (or Worldbridge, etc.) where taught to me from the visa agent, such as sending the British citizen's original birth certificate, or original passport, and of course certified by solicitor any docs we could not provide originals.

The visa itself only took a day, but getting a biometrics appointment took a bit longer, but I learned from the visa agent - make an appointment but if its dated later than you want, then simply go the center with your confirmation letter. I'm in a huge metro city, and the homeland security folks were so nice and took me right in, saving me weeks of waiting. 

Also look at the processing times list the Consulate puts out every few months. Right now in the LA Office it is taking 3 months.... but I got it in a day.

Note - Australian, New Zealand and USA citizens can only apply online. Other countries can apply in person to the British Consulate/Embassy of their country.

No, you cannot apply from inside UK.


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## Minuvweyna (Aug 6, 2008)

I just wanted to update this. I finally found a number and got through to an actual person at the Immigration Enquiry Bureau. Explained my situation, and that I would have a valid visa at the time of my marriage and asked what form I needed for a spousal visa and if I needed to return to the States to apply. She told me that I would NOT need to leave the UK. I don't know if this is a new method/form or if my situation is just unusual since I met my fiance in the UK, rather than us meeting abroad.

For anyone who is in the UK legally on a valid visa, you can apply for a spousal visa, from INSIDE the UK, using Form FLR(M) - Further Leave to Remain as a Spouse/Civil Partner/Same Sex Partner. The form makes a lot more sense, since it doesn't ask strange questions (like "when will you be joining your husband?" - but we live together!)

This was a huge relief for me, and I thought maybe someone else might benefit from my 15 minutes sitting on hold waiting to ask, so I thought I'd post it here.

If anyone else needs it or is just curious, here is the form http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/flr/formflrm042009

If this is a new thing, I must say it sure seems like an improvement! Huzzah, Home Office!

Elizabeth


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## izzysmum04 (Nov 26, 2007)

*Elizabeth, so sorry, you are correct, as you will be on a Tier 1 Post Study Work visa. I wasn't fully paying attention (that's what happens when you have a crying 13 week old on your lap.. lol ), and focused on you saying you were on a student visa. Anyone on a plain student visa cannot apply from within the UK. Anyone on the Tiers visas may apply from within the UK. Sorry for the confusion.*


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## PeterR (Jul 3, 2009)

My wife got a FLR (M) in UK. She was here on an entry permit accompanying her parents while her father was training for the Christian ministry with a church denomination here.


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## doppiavu (Feb 1, 2009)

I also had a difficult time tracking down the correct govt dept to speak to regarding the spousal visa and whether I could I apply from within the UK. Since my current visa is still valid for another year I was initially told I could apply from within the UK. However, when they found out that I was here on a Working Holidaymaker Visa I was told that I had to apply from outside the country as the intention of my current visa states that I have no intention of staying permanently. I'm heading off to the US to apply and have been told it will take 8-12 weeks (it takes longer during summer) but I am hoping that's not the case. My work will let me telecommute otherwise I'd be in serious trouble job-wise! Good luck!


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## littleviking (Jul 30, 2009)

*thanks!!!!*

just a random and HUGE thank you! for you investigating... i'm in the exact same situation as you (US student in the UK on student visa, soon changing to post-study and wanting to upgrade to spousal) and i've been having a nightmare of a time trying to find info on how to go about it.. i'm upgrading to the post-study visa this fall and then looking to change to the spouse visa.. have you gone through with it yet? any insight? thanks!


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## Minuvweyna (Aug 6, 2008)

I actually have not gone ahead with anything yet. My dissertation will not be turned in until the end of October, so I'm not eligible to switch to the post study yet. Then I'm not actually getting married until Sept 2010.

It looks quite straightforward however. Applying for the post study visa should be very easy, the requirements appear to be "did you get a degree from a UK institution?" "do you have £800?" Plus the cost of the application itself, of course. So I'm not very worried there.

The spousal visa should also be straightforward, I think. I'm saving things so that I can prove that I have been living with him. Going to get both sets of in-laws to write supporting letters that we are sappily in love. Photos with his family (with mine is harder since they're far away and we won't get much chance to visit them) but I'll ask them to talk about our visit to the States in the letter. Letters from friends supporting the fact that we are a couple and have been. Also taking and saving lots of photos of us together in various places (alright, mostly parties) but it still shows a relationship. Got a joint bank account, so there should be records available showing when that was opened that should help. I think we'll do fine as far as proving that we have an actual relationship.

To get married in the UK (unless you are having your wedding in the US, and I have to ask "why?" - it's so much prettier here!) you will need a Certificate of Approval which costs £295. Check here for more info UK Border Agency | What is a certificate of approval?
Because you're an American they do not know if you are married outside the UK, so you will need to supply a certificate of no impediment to marry. Since the US has no way of doing this, they will accept a sworn affidavit stating that you are free to marry legally. This website details a bit more about doing that. American Citizens and Foreign Marriages

If you marry in the US your fiance will need to provide a certificate of no impediment to the US, I imagine. I know nothing about how he would do this, though, since my fiance and I didn't consider marrying in the States. My family gets an excuse to finally take that holiday to Scotland. His family neither needs nor wants a reason to visit Michigan - yech, boring!

You will of course also have to get what, in the States, we call a marriage license. When you choose and speak to a celebrant they should go over all the legal requirements with you (at least my humanist celebrant has, not sure if the legal requirements differ at all if you are having a religious or civil ceremony). They probably won't know much if anything about visas, but they can guide you through the local legal bits, so I will leave that up to them.

Good luck!
Elizabeth


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

Just to add a bit to what Elizabeth has said, you may want to check the US Consulate's website on getting married in the UK: Embassy of the U.S. London: Consular Affairs: Marriage & Civil Partnerships in England and Wales

I'm not aware of the US requiring a "certificate of non-impediment" for anyone getting married over there, however the requirements vary by county, so anyone contemplating a wedding in the US should check with the jurisdiction in which you're planning to wed. (Be sure to mention that one of the partners is a foreigner.) Normally it's just birth certificate, photo i.d. (passport for the foreigner) and the fee for the license.
Cheers,
Bev


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## Punktlich2 (Apr 30, 2009)

Bevdeforges said:


> Just to add a bit to what Elizabeth has said, you may want to check the US Consulate's website on getting married in the UK: Embassy of the U.S. London: Consular Affairs: Marriage & Civil Partnerships in England and Wales
> 
> I'm not aware of the US requiring a "certificate of non-impediment" for anyone getting married over there, however the requirements vary by county, so anyone contemplating a wedding in the US should check with the jurisdiction in which you're planning to wed. (Be sure to mention that one of the partners is a foreigner.) Normally it's just birth certificate, photo i.d. (passport for the foreigner) and the fee for the license.
> Cheers,
> Bev


England and Wales, and presumably Scotland and N.I. do not have "certificates of non-impediment". That's what the banns are for. When a UK person intends to marry in a civil-law country that requires such a certificate then (because the UK has no "family register" or "livret de famillie/familienschein") a Register Office clerk issues the banns for such a marriage in respect of the UK party and then a quasi-licence for handing over to the authorities of the other country. Most US embassies will have a procedure for issuing a letter acceptable to the authorities of the country in which they are located serving a similar purpose. 

In the UK only certain Register Offices handle marriages involving most foreign nationals are dealt with only at "designated" register offices where staff are trained in immigration matters: http://www.staffordshire.gov.uk/community/lifeevents/marriage/foreign/ Staff will interview each party separately with a view to identifying cases of marriage and immigration fraud.

All US states (or counties within a state) now have Web sites listing the marriage licence requirements there. http://marriage.about.com/cs/marriagelicenses/a/marriagelic.htm summarizes these for each state. Generally photo ID, sometimes a social security card, or for foreigners a passport, plus a fee, an application form, and perhaps a medical certificate, divorce decree or death certificate of prior spouse (if applicable) are needed. 

Marriage by, say, a French citizen in a foreign country needs to be reported to the 
French consular official responsible for the place of the marriage.


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## PeterR (Jul 3, 2009)

If you've lived in Scotland for less than two years you do need one (if practicable):
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files1/registration/rm1text.pdf
Sorry, I can't copy text from that PDF because it is secured.

But if I remember aright (it's 5 years ago now) USA doesn't issue them so my wife couldn't get one, and the registrar will be aware of that.

Peter


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## Punktlich2 (Apr 30, 2009)

PeterR said:


> If you've lived in Scotland for less than two years you do need one (if practicable):
> http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files1/registration/rm1text.pdf
> Sorry, I can't copy text from that PDF because it is secured.
> 
> ...


Thanks to OmniPage Pro X:

IF YOU ARE DOMICILED OUTSIDE THE UNITED KINGDOM

The normal procedure of giving notice to the registrar in Scotland must be followed but, as previously mentioned, an additional requirement is placed upon you.

•	If, being domiciled in a country outside the UK, you are subject to the marriage laws of that country, you should obtain if practicable, a certificate issued by the competent authority (usually the civil authority) in that country to the effect that there is no impediment to your proposed marriage. If the certificate is in a language other than English you should also produce a certified translation

•	In the absence of such a certificate without good reason being shown, it may not be possible for you to marry in Scotland

•	If you are now resident in the UK and have lived here for the last two years or more you need not submit such a certificate

•	If you are in any doubt about what is required, or if you need further information, you should consult the registrar or write to GROS at the address shown at the start of this leaflet.


Of course the obvious question is: by "domicile" do they mean domiciled under the law of the "other" jurisdiction or under Scots law. Bad use of the term, since it is wildly improbable that a person's domicile would be changed to Scotland under Scots (or English) law except after many years. Or perhaps after the wedding. 
http://www.scotlawcom.gov.uk/downloads/rep107.pdf

That's why they have the two-year alternative. But of course there is no registration of domicile in Scotland or England or Ireland the way there is in most of Europe, nor any marking of passport on arrival if the passport is EU/EEA/Swiss.

Under American law one's domicile changes on arrival if one arrives with the intention to remain indefinitely (animus manendi) 
In re Estate of Jones (Welshman who spent working life in USA and left to retire in Wales but died aboard the Lusitania: question was whether his illegitimate Welsh daughter or the Crown would inherit; answer depended on his domicile.)

Then there is the matter of "subject to the marriage laws of that country". My daughter having four nationalities, which ones subject her to their marriage laws? (Answer: none of them, except insofar as she is married in that country, and otherwise one of them does require her to send them a copy of her marriage document. The handout wrongly assumes that only domicile is the basis for applicable marriage law; "limping marriages" valid in one country and not in another are actually quite common.) This is a holdover of old laws that restrained from re-marrying persons possessing the nationality or domicile of a country that denied the right to divorce. Italy and Ireland, most notoriously in the past. I wonder whether this rule couldn't be attacked in such cases under EU law. More likely, one can just forum-shop until some Register clerk accepts the application.

So: this is just another bureaucratic hurdle, and one that perhaps damages the economy of Gretna Green, Scotland's Reno.


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## Bevdeforges (Nov 16, 2007)

PeterR said:


> If you've lived in Scotland for less than two years you do need one (if practicable):
> http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files1/registration/rm1text.pdf
> Sorry, I can't copy text from that PDF because it is secured.
> 
> ...


Interesting to hear how you got around that one. In France they require (or used to - 15 years ago when I got married here) something called a "certificat de coutume" which basically took the place of the non-impediment thing. The Consulate wouldn't do them, so you had to find an attorney, qualified in both France and the US to review your documents and issue what amounted to a certificate of non-impediment.
Pricey little document, too - though the lawyer I worked with claimed that some mairies would accept the certificat de coutume in lieu of some of the official translations. Not all do, however.
Cheers,
Bev


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## littleviking (Jul 30, 2009)

Hello--

A very long overdue thanks to you Minuvweyna and Bevdeforges for the info! I've been burried under my dissertation which I submitted on Oct. 1. Now I'm waiting for my marks to be finalized so I can apply for my Tier 1 PSW visa. My tutor has said they won't be graded officially until the people who had extensions hand theirs in, which drives me a bit crazy and I'm really wanting to get my visa sorted. I have awhile, as my student visa is valid until the end of Jan. 2010. 

Minuvweyna, have you upgraded to PSW Tier 1 yet? I'll have to submit the official letter as I won't have the certification on paper (my degree diploma certificate), although the UKBC site says that will be sufficient. My tutor offered to write a letter (stamped on uni letterhead) saying that I'd passed everything and met all requirements, but it won't have the 'official degree completed status' so I'm wary. Guess I have to wait til the grades are in and pray it happens quick! Just wondering if you have any insight on that process although it does seem pretty straightforward. 

Anyhoo, I'm a bit off topic here, apologies. Hope all is well and thanks again!


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## Minuvweyna (Aug 6, 2008)

I'm afraid I can't give you any reassurance here. I'm a month behind you! My dissertation was submitted on 29 Oct, so I'm in an even tighter time crunch, as my visa also expires on 31 Jan 2010. I have informed them of the problem with visas and they are supposed to try to help get the graders to move at a reasonable pace. I have been encouraged to keep pestering my college office so they can keep on top of the graders. Nevertheless the graders get 8 weeks (and with the holidays coming up, that could really be more like 10 weeks). After that it seems there are more delays, so I am quite frustrated and worried.

Word of advice, when doing a masters degree on a visa, try to avoid life threatening illnesses... immigration authorities seem entirely unmoved by such difficulties for oneself or one's loved ones.

There's my vent for the day. I hope your grades come through quickly, unless you have different regulations I expect you will get yours quite comfortably by the first week of December, it may take a few more weeks to get everything sorted, but I would think you will be able to submit with a few weeks to spare on your visa.

Best wishes,
Elizabeth




littleviking said:


> Hello--
> 
> A very long overdue thanks to you Minuvweyna and Bevdeforges for the info! I've been burried under my dissertation which I submitted on Oct. 1. Now I'm waiting for my marks to be finalized so I can apply for my Tier 1 PSW visa. My tutor has said they won't be graded officially until the people who had extensions hand theirs in, which drives me a bit crazy and I'm really wanting to get my visa sorted. I have awhile, as my student visa is valid until the end of Jan. 2010.
> 
> ...


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## littleviking (Jul 30, 2009)

Hi Elizabeth!

Glad to hear I'm not the only one in this situation.. I plan on doing the same, just keeping on top of them til the grades are in! Hope your grades come quickly!! I'll keep you posted about the process. If it comes down to it, can one leave the country and then come back under a tourist visa to get the PSW visa sorted while falling under the UK rate for maintenance fees? Hopefully it won't come to that, as I wouldn't be allowed to work! 

I'm meeting with the International Welfare advisor at my uni this week so if I get any info I'll pass it along..

All the best!


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## littleviking (Jul 30, 2009)

Hi Minuvweyna,

Hope you were able to sort out PSW vias easily. It wasn't so bad once I finally got my uni to sort their end of things!! 

Also, are you going ahead with your wedding plans? I will likely be doing the same soon and I'm eager to hear any tips/the steps, etc.. I'm sure that the info is on these forums somewhere but I'm admittedly rubbish at navigating such things and we're both in the same visa status/transition situation so that's why I'm bugging you for info 

Anyhoo hope all is well.. I'm researching the certificate of approval and the first steps to take in sorting the spousal visa from within the UK while on a Tier 1 PSW visa..

Thanks!!


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## Pecosa (Nov 29, 2009)

just curious--how many years are the spousal visas valid?! i'm wanting to get one for my husband, but we are now planning on staying back in the US (just moved back) for 2 years so i want to make sure i get him the spousal visa, but don't want to go through it all just to have it expire!
any ideas?!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Pecosa said:


> just curious--how many years are the spousal visas valid?! i'm wanting to get one for my husband, but we are now planning on staying back in the US (just moved back) for 2 years so i want to make sure i get him the spousal visa, but don't want to go through it all just to have it expire!
> any ideas?!


If you haven't been married 4 years, spouse visa is for 2 years, and if you've been married 4 years+, then the visa is for indefinite leave to enter (i.e. no time limit to his stay).


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## Pecosa (Nov 29, 2009)

Great! Just what a I needed to know


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