# credit card



## dubal (Jul 28, 2014)

I was living dubai 14 years before. That time I have 2 credit card. Unfortunately i did not manage to pay my out standing. Now i am in india, bank's agent calling me and ask me to pay debts in india. I ask expert's it is not possible to pay in india and there is no jurisdiction in india for this matter. So I want to ask what happen is next. Please advise me.


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## vantage (May 10, 2012)

dubal said:


> I was living dubai 14 years before. That time I have 2 credit card. Unfortunately i did not manage to pay my out standing. Now i am in india, bank's agent calling me and ask me to pay debts in india. I ask expert's it is not possible to pay in india and there is no jurisdiction in india for this matter. So I want to ask what happen is next. Please advise me.


You can't pay, don't want to pay, or don't think you should pay?


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## LesFroggitts (Dec 30, 2013)

dubal said:


> I was living dubai 14 years before. That time I have 2 credit card. Unfortunately i did not manage to pay my out standing. Now i am in india, bank's agent calling me and ask me to pay debts in india. I ask expert's it is not possible to pay in india and there is no jurisdiction in india for this matter. So I want to ask what happen is next. Please advise me.


Just running away does not absolve you of your obligation to pay, neither legally nor morally.

By virtue of you refusing to pay what you owe to the bank simply INCREASES the costs for EVERYONE else - why do you think banks make charges for such things a credit cards, they're not granting you free money/credit simply as a favour to you.

Cough up the payment pal is what you should do. And don't forget that you're not hiding by using a user-name, your IP address will be known to the forum software and if pushed the forum owners could be made to give it up !


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## Dubai-meister (Jul 22, 2013)

lesfroggitts said:


> just running away does not absolve you of your obligation to pay, neither legally nor morally.
> 
> By virtue of you refusing to pay what you owe to the bank simply increases the costs for everyone else - why do you think banks make charges for such things a credit cards, they're not granting you free money/credit simply as a favour to you.
> 
> Cough up the payment pal is what you should do. And don't forget that you're not hiding by using a user-name, your ip address will be known to the forum software and if pushed the forum owners could be made to give it up !


well said :d


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

LesFroggitts said:


> And don't forget that you're not hiding by using a user-name, your IP address will be known to the forum software and if pushed the forum owners could be made to give it up !


So ?

He's in India so thats not going to do a lot is it ? Pointless scare mongering....

if the OP wants to stay in India and never come here again, then there is nothing the bank can do. Nothing, nil, nada nowt. Thats the correct answer to his question.

Telling him the bank might find his email address and IP address is well, meaningless. if its gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail or many others - so what - will the US disclose anything more ? No. Are there any UAE hosted email systems like Gmail - none worth mentioning.

Yes he should pay - thats a good suggestion but the rest is bluster.


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## LesFroggitts (Dec 30, 2013)

twowheelsgood said:


> if the OP wants to stay in India and never come here again, then there is nothing the bank can do. Nothing, nil, nada nowt. Thats the correct answer to his question.
> 
> Telling him the bank might find his email address and IP address is well, meaningless. if its gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail or many others - so what - will the US disclose anything more ? No. Are there any UAE hosted email systems like Gmail - none worth mentioning.


Actually I didn't make any mention about finding out the email address, just the IP address which as I am fairly sure you would know is able to be geographically located quite accurately.

The OP has mentioned that the bank's agent (probably a debt collection agency) is already in contact with him/her in India. So the geolocation of the IP address simply reinforces the location of the OP. I just did a quick 'free' iplookup for my current IP address and it gave a result accurate to within 20km of my actual location - so they are pretty good nowadays, unless various obfuscation methods are utilised.

Having been the manager of an online forum in the past, I have been approached through judicial systems to identify IP addresses - they are out there and they are watching...keep looking to the skies


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

LesFroggitts said:


> Actually I didn't make any mention about finding out the email address, just the IP address which as I am fairly sure you would know is able to be geographically located quite accurately.
> 
> The OP has mentioned that the bank's agent (probably a debt collection agency) is already in contact with him/her in India. So the geolocation of the IP address simply reinforces the location of the OP. I just did a quick 'free' iplookup for my current IP address and it gave a result accurate to within 20km of my actual location - so they are pretty good nowadays, unless various obfuscation methods are utilised.
> 
> Having been the manager of an online forum in the past, I have been approached through judicial systems to identify IP addresses - they are out there and they are watching...keep looking to the skies


Hi,
The OPs location is easy to spot from their ip address - it is showing as being in a city with approximately 14 million people - so should be really easy to track down!!
They should really pay what they owe - especially if they intend to fly to this region or even over the UAE (if plane needs to make unscheduled landing in UAE, a stopover would cause problems to anyone with a registered UAE debt).
The problem is the greedy banks really load lots of spurious charges - so that even a modest debt of 10,000 AED soon becomes nearer to 100,000 AED.
The agents chasing the debt will be on a hefty commission - so always best to negotiate directly with the bank - not the debt collectors.
Given the hopeless chance of collection if OP does not play ball - the bank should be open to some realistic negotiation (this is how all debts are settled here, after all!).
Cheers
Steve


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

Banks in GCC have (agents) in India to collect these amounts. These are not companies or anything but a group of thugs, if they find the OP they will threaten him (physically) to pay the money or start receiving a series of harassments. The deal with the bank is that if the agent returns the whole amount or part of it they get a share, otherwise the bank doesn't pay anything so it's a win-win situation for the bank.

The OP obviously is asking about the consequences of not paying and apparently he's not going to pay. The consequences GCC wise is that you will get arrested in any GCC country if there was a legal notice and the amount is big. If the amount is small the bank doesn't bother formalities and send these thugs after you.

My source is an Indian senior staff of HSBC Bahrain.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

A.Abbass said:


> The consequences GCC wise is that you will get arrested in any GCC country if there was a legal notice and the amount is big......... My source is an Indian senior staff of HSBC Bahrain.


First point is rubbish - there is no agreement across borders in the GCC for arrests over debt.

Your source is a person in the bank who has a vested interest in frightening people.


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

twowheelsgood said:


> First point is rubbish - there is no agreement across borders in the GCC for arrests over debt.
> 
> Your source is a person in the bank who has a vested interest in frightening people.


I believe before going utterly blunt and calling what others say rubbish you should seek some information.

My colleague who works in the same department and who happen to be Indian as well told me 2 incidents where similar thugs or so called agents knocked his doors to force him to pay some money dues to a Bank. I asked him about police and he replied that this is a common practice in India, banks are unable to track people legaly so they send those agents after them.

Now about the 1st point, one of the employees of our group just got arrested in Qatar and deported to UAE because he left Dubai without settling his dues to the bank, this was even published in the Gulf News.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

Got a link to that alleged article in Gulf News ?


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

Use google search.

Hint : published in July.


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## twowheelsgood (Feb 21, 2013)

Google search for what keywords ? I tried multiple variations and came up with nothing so I'm clearly missing something here.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
Article is here (although I am convinced that this is a bank funded scare story).
Debt trap in UAE: To repay or to run away? | GulfNews.com
Cheers
Steve


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

I am out with a mobile. Will search for you when I get back home to my desktoo.


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## Windsweptdragon (Aug 12, 2012)

A.Abbass said:


> Use google search.
> 
> Hint : published in July.


Why waste peoples time? You either have a link or you don't. This is a discussion forum, if you're stating something as a fact you should provide the evidence.


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

Windsweptdragon said:


> Why waste peoples time? You either have a link or you don't. This is a discussion forum, if you're stating something as a fact you should provide the evidence.


Calm down Mr Tough guy.

Here's the link, I hope you guys don't jump at threads later asking people to (search). If you can't do a proper search on the internet then don't boss others and ask for (evidence).


Debt trap in UAE: To repay or to run away? | GulfNews.com


Here's the text if you can't click or too lazy to do so :

Dubai: If you are steeped in debt and are thinking of fleeing the UAE, think again.
As simplistic as it may seem, the long arm of the law can catch up with you sooner than later.
A jobless Indian expat who fled to his homeland after borrowing Dh150,000 from a local bank learnt this the hard way when he was arrested recently in a third country – Qatar. The bank had filed a case against him, following which Qatar courts summoned him and he was sent back to the UAE where the law took its own course.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

A.Abbass said:


> Calm down Mr Tough guy.
> 
> Here's the link, I hope you guys don't jump at threads later asking people to (search). If you can't do a proper search on the internet then don't boss others and ask for (evidence).
> 
> ...


Too slow - beat you to the link 
Cheers
Steve


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

Stevesolar said:


> Too slow - beat you to the link
> Cheers
> Steve


I was busy with the kids, it's Eid et al 


On another not, I am astonished with some members in this forum being rude to others, calling what they post rubbish (am not only talking about this post, but have seen this numerous times) and posting information they claim is 100% true while they lack the simplest of knowledge about what they are talking about.

If I said I know people who met debt collectors and I personally know someone who got arrested in Qatar then I mean it. Why would I fake stuff to frighten others ?

I hope everyone is safe and gets to pay their dues in time, and I hope nobody would have to deal with these situations at all


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## Windsweptdragon (Aug 12, 2012)

A.Abbass said:


> Calm down Mr Tough guy.
> 
> Here's the link, I hope you guys don't jump at threads later asking people to (search). If you can't do a proper search on the internet then don't boss others and ask for (evidence).
> 
> ...


Why should anyone have to do a search and follow your hints? 

Certainly got better things to be doing than looking for stories on the net that may or may not exist. Now you've (and cheers to Steve also) posted the link, it's a point of discussion, what a forum is about.


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

So you dont have time to search but have time to ask others to search for you ?

I said something I am sure is correct. If you diasgree it is YOUR job to prove otherwise.


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## Windsweptdragon (Aug 12, 2012)

A.Abbass said:


> So you dont have time to search but have time to ask others to search for you ?
> 
> I said something I am sure is correct. If you diasgree it is YOUR job to prove otherwise.


That's not what happened at all though is it? Someone else asked you to provide a link to the article, you instead gave them hints so they could do a search themselves, they did the search and couldn't find what you were directing them towards. Steve looked and found, twowheelsgood looked and didn't find, who knows if anyone else looked then didn't bother posting when link was provided. At best case you wasted two peoples time. 

How do you think that looked to an outsider (like me) reading the thread? Like you couldn't be bothered to backup what you were saying maybe?


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

Windsweptdragon said:


> That's not what happened at all though is it? Someone else asked you to provide a link to the article, you instead gave them hints so they could do a search themselves, they did the search and couldn't find what you were directing them towards. Steve looked and found, twowheelsgood looked and didn't find, who knows if anyone else looked then didn't bother posting when link was provided. At best case you wasted two peoples time.
> 
> How do you think that looked to an outsider (like me) reading the thread? Like you couldn't be bothered to backup what you were saying maybe?


That's not what happened at all. I asked him to search, when he couldn't find I offered to search for him when I can, which I did.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
It's Eid - let's all stop bickering and get back to the original topic!
I belive the banks try to scare people with stories about how they chase debt outside the UAE.
In reality - it is hard to chase once you are out of the country.
However - if you venture back into the UAE ( and even other GCC countries) - then they see you as fair gane to hunt down).
To be fair - the Gulf News article referred to an Indian with a debt of 150,000 AED - not a small amount and one they would cetainly want to chase if you are within their reach.
Cheers
Steve


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## Alfred1 (Jan 4, 2014)

A.Abbass said:


> Banks in GCC have (agents) in India to collect these amounts. These are not companies or anything but a group of thugs, if they find the OP they will threaten him (physically) to pay the money or start receiving a series of harassments. The deal with the bank is that if the agent returns the whole amount or part of it they get a share, otherwise the bank doesn't pay anything so it's a win-win situation for the bank.
> 
> The OP obviously is asking about the consequences of not paying and apparently he's not going to pay. The consequences GCC wise is that you will get arrested in any GCC country if there was a legal notice and the amount is big. If the amount is small the bank doesn't bother formalities and send these thugs after you.
> 
> My source is an Indian senior staff of HSBC Bahrain.


Indian senior staff of HSBC Bahrain sends hired thugs out to beat people up if they can't legally get their money back?

Thats a bold statement and I'd like to believe it wasn't true but to be frank it wouldn't surprise me.


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

Alfred1 said:


> Indian senior staff of HSBC Bahrain sends hired thugs out to beat people up if they can't legally get their money back?
> 
> Thats a bold statement and I'd like to believe it wasn't true but to be frank it wouldn't surprise me.


No.

That's definitely not what he told me !

He just explained that bank sells the debt to private debt collector, and if they didn't acquire the money the bank doesn't pay anything. He didn't elaborate how these collectors work. When I inquired from my colleague he explained to me, that's when I asked him where is the police ? 

I believe the bank turns a blind eye on how these collectors operate, or doesn't even care to know how they operate.

That HSBC guy also told me something new I never knew. When I inquired about why car loans are becoming more tough, and why HSBC is not even giving car loans anymore without salary transfer though it's a secure loan. He told me there is an increasing rate of expats who take the car back to their home (asking a NOC from the bank for a summer vacaton) and never come back. And when I asked how would they manage to run with a car with no papers ? He said apparently they manage to do something illegal there.

As Steve said the amount is big, there's a certain threshold that would trigger the bank to take legal measures, I heard that was 40,000 Bahraini dinars over here (400,000 dhs). When I asked this guy also which amount would make you go legal he said earlier it was a big amount, now we go for anything using these collectors.


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## BedouGirl (Sep 15, 2011)

Can we please be careful about naming our sources. It would have been better to write a large bank rather than being specific.


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## londonmandan (Jul 23, 2013)

twowheelsgood said:


> First point is rubbish - there is no agreement across borders in the GCC for arrests over debt.
> 
> Your source is a person in the bank who has a vested interest in frightening people.


Why would an agreement need to be in place for someone to collect debt??

If someone in another country owed me money I would seek out debt collection agencies in that country to go find them, they obviously would get a fee for said collection.

One example of such companies would be Bilkish Associates They are an Indian company working for UAE banks.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

londonmandan said:


> Why would an agreement need to be in place for someone to collect debt??
> 
> If someone in another country owed me money I would seek out debt collection agencies in that country to go find them, they obviously would get a fee for said collection.
> 
> One example of such companies would be Bilkish Associates They are an Indian company working for UAE banks.


Hi,
If the quality of their service matches the spelling and quality of their website - then debtors have little to fear!
Cheers
Steve


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## londonmandan (Jul 23, 2013)

Stevesolar said:


> Hi,
> If the quality of their service matches the spelling and quality of their website - then debtors have little to fear!
> Cheers
> Steve


lol very true but I just used that as an example however just Google the company second link (consumercomplaints one), not very good and quite bad tactics which actually do leave a bit to be feared.


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi,
Agreed - typical bully boy tactics.
What amazes me is how companies use phone calls to intimidate people - yet you always have the ability to put the phone down!
People that I work with have had horrible calls from companies chasing them to pay their credit card bills (which they can't do when they have not been paid for four months) - they continue talking insead of using their two most powerful assets - silence or hangng up !
Cheers
Steve


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## Alfred1 (Jan 4, 2014)

A.Abbass said:


> No.
> 
> That's definitely not what he told me !
> 
> ...


You're still basically saying the same thing, the bank hires unscrupulous people to collect their debts and turns a blind eye to their activity.

And I'm still saying I'm not surprised, although I don't think its the 'bank' doing it, I think its certain types of people that think that sort of thing is acceptable in the 21st century.

As for car loans I know that some companies are blacklisted, if someone from your company has absconded whilst owing money and the debt has never been settled then they often blacklist that company, particularly if the company (as the sponsor) refuses to settled the debt for the employee.
So when you go for your bank loan and tell them who you work for they will check on a list and if the company is blacklisted then its not happening.

I'm from England, so it would be a hell of a journey for me to abscond with a car.

I do know of one person that max'd out all his credit cards and took a 400k loan, and then got on a plane to Scotland with the money and never came back. At least thats what the story was when he suddenly disappeared.
I don't know what the bank did but I don't think hired Indian thugs would last very long in Scotland


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## A.Abbass (Jun 28, 2014)

Alfred1 said:


> You're still basically saying the same thing, the bank hires unscrupulous people to collect their debts and turns a blind eye to their activity.
> 
> And I'm still saying I'm not surprised, although I don't think its the 'bank' doing it, I think its certain types of people that think that sort of thing is acceptable in the 21st century.
> 
> ...



I have heard hilarious stories about things happening in India, I am the only non indian in my place of work for 3 years and I heard ALOT. I am not surprised at all as well 

People who abscond with cars are all from middle eastern countries, it is a common practice for middle easterns to go back to their home countries during summer vacations with their GCC cars, it's cheaper for some, while others like to brag.

The internet is full of stories about UK based debt collection companies, and I just read they have power to break into your houses and even sell stuff (Not sure how far is that true).


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