# Reports From the Front?



## PauloPievese

So, it appears that I may have dodged the bullet when the Italian government refused to let me move there. While I remain inconsolable about that and have hopes for the future I'm wondering if anyone would like to make a real life report about living through the *Current Crisis*.

:flypig:


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## NickZ

We've all been grounded. If you aren't sick (Most aren't) you're likely twiddling your thumbs. For the most part people have been very accepting. How long will that last? Who knows.


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## GeordieBorn

Streets are quite empty, there is that underlying trace of fear in the air if you do venture out, looking at people and thinking do they look unwell! And we are in the UK…. From what I understand from friend’s afar (now) in Italy they have been living with this for days now and worse they are being declared as in a “red zone” with whatever that implies. Some advert here has some line like “it will be coming to a place near you soon” , seems very apt – keep safe all.


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## PauloPievese

*Usa*

Here in the USA it seems that we're in denial. "I won't get too close to people unless I want to" seems to sum it up. Selfish raids are emptying grocery stores. Efforts at governmental aid are being hampered by the tinfoil hat brigade. 

The biggest impact to me has been the ongoing collapse of the global economic system. I had planned to retire in Italy on Social Security (state pension) and a pile of cash. Well, that pile has diminished by 25% (so far), the deal being not the loss of the cash but rather the future value of the cash. Retiring to Italy seems out and now even international travel seems problematic. 

Here in the States we have an expression "it's like a slow motion train wreck" which seems apt.

:flypig:


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## NickZ

In the US you're used to stockpiling for things like hurricanes and in the north for winter storms. Many here are used to almost daily shopping. The people who go out to buy one celery stalk are the ones needing to adapt to shopping weekly.


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## PauloPievese

NickZ said:


> In the US you're used to stockpiling for things like hurricanes and in the north for winter storms. Many here are used to almost daily shopping. The people who go out to buy one celery stalk are the ones needing to adapt to shopping weekly.


You're twisting the knife a bit. My lovely little apartment in Citta della Pieve was on a corner. Exiting on one side I looked across the street at the cafe and then turned the corner where I had in succession a news stand, a laundry, a trattoria, and a Conad. Pick up a loaf of fresh bread in the morning and maybe a cutlet if I had decided to cook at home and not walk to any of the half a dozen or more good restaurants. My American friends don't get it.

Living as I do in Florida I know about the stockpiling for a hurricane but this has gone beyond that. The tinfoil hat "survivalists" are buying lifetime supplies of toilet paper for example.

:flypig:


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## NickZ

Don't know about life time but often the 48 pack at the large store is the same price of the two pack at the small local store.


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## PauloPievese

NickZ said:


> Don't know about life time but often the 48 pack at the large store is the same price of the two pack at the small local store.


When you see someone coming out of Walmart with two shopping carts full of the 48 packs and another cart full of bottled water then you'll have an idea of what I'm talking about.


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## Italia-Mx

Americans were advised to stock up. When they all rushed to the stores at the same time, they could not maintain a safe distance between themselves and they spread the virus around. You will have a big problem there because of this. By the way, it's a virus -- not a famine.


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## Crawford

PauloPievese said:


> When you see someone coming out of Walmart with two shopping carts full of the 48 packs and another cart full of bottled water then you'll have an idea of what I'm talking about.


What's with the bottled water? 

The water from the faucet is perfectly fine. Are these people expecting the main water supply to collapse due to the virus?

Never understand this mentality; and why are they buying the water in small/medium bottles and not the big jugs?


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## PauloPievese

Crawford said:


> Never understand this mentality


"Mentality" implies "mentation." Therein lies your confusion. 

Meanwhile in Italy people are singing from rooftops to maintain solidarity; charming if true. Is it? Anyone seen it?

:flypig:


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## Troz

My wife and I are stuck in Australia for the duration. I hope this doesn't break forum rules to mention another site but in the current crisis a really good source of information about Italy for anglophones, whether currently in Italy or not, is https://thelocal.it - I really recommend it.

Our part-time residence is in Umbria. If your Italian is up to it, we also find https://iltamtam.it a good source of news on the region.

As for people singing from balconies, search on Youtube for "italy singing in lockdown".


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## PauloPievese

Thanks Troz. "_Il Corriere dell'Umbria_" is great for specifically Umbrian news.

Re the singing thing, I'm certain it's there and will look at YouTube, good idea. But what I'm really about is the personal experience of the forum members, to kind of cut through the romantic clutter. If anyone has actually seen this in their town or village I would be interested in hearing about it. A one time thing? An hourly occurrence? Let me know.

My favorite un-romance of Italy story is something I picked up on the 'net when I thought about doing a hiking tour. This guy had decided to hike across Italy from side to side. Just the thing I thought. The first thing that happened to him, having decided to wet his boots in the Tyrrhenian Sea, was a rogue wave coming and filling his boot. He then describes walking along roads solidly littered with cigarette packs and condoms until he comes to a slough which was filled with stinging flies. He described it as being like something out of The African Queen. I stopped reading about there, my plans having changed. 

:flypig:


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## Italia-Mx

My region will soon be rationing water due to too much domestic use by people staying at home and because we had a warm winter with very little rain in January, February, and March. I've been in Italy 20 years and I've seen water rationing happen before. First they reduce the pressure and then the hours that water is available are cut. This is a very good reason to stock up on bottled water for anyone who doesn't understand the "mentality".


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## PauloPievese

The reference was to the USA but your point is well taken. Best of luck.
:flypig:


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## John and Cecil

I don't blame them for buying bottled water. America also has the problem of pharmaceutic laced tap water in nearly all the metropolitan areas. A lot of it is laced with antidepressants because nearly 20% or Americans have or are taking them. The AP did a study several years ago, yet the govt still refuses to test the water for drugs and they claim the reason is "the people won't understand the results".

They are not just stocking up on food and toilet paper in the US but also guns and ammunition. Right now there is an unprecedented amount of people buying up weapons there. The US has a lot of mass shootings, and some just because someone (perhaps on anti-depressants or stopped taking them) loses their job and then shoots all their coworkers. While the well-to-do are off in their vacation homes or bunkers, or worse taking up one of the precious few respirators, how is the guy with no health insurance but a closet full of guns going to react?

It may look bad in Italy but that is because we were the next in line, but I think the problem in the US is going to be much worse. I would not worry about the economy though, Trump will do everything he can to save the economy even if it means tossing 5% of the population under the bus to do so. His latest speech stated more people will commit suicide than will be killed by the virus if the US doesn't go back to work asap. He appears to believe it is better to let them die quickly and spare the economy.

I am so glad that I left the US when I did. I wish my friends in America the best and I am praying for them but I fear it will not be pretty 

Btw, it is very calm here at least where I am. Most people are listening and stay at home, the grocery stores near me are well stocked (except for occasionally eggs). No one is out arming themselves like Rambo. Plenty of toilet paper, although we have bidets here anyway. Time to sit back and do some reading, or better yet some deep thought on how our race can change and stop all these 100 year disasters that happen around the clock. I for one am going vegetarian, and I drive an electric bicycle.


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## Italia-Mx

Agree with everything you said. No problems in my area with shortages of anything at our grocery stores. It's very calm and peaceful. You can hear a pin drop in our palazzo. We are happy to be safe and sound with really nothing to worry about. We even had a check-up call from our doctor this morning with some new information on how to get a refill on a specific medication. We didn't have to call her. She called us. We also have an electric bicycle in the family.


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## PauloPievese

Italia-Mx said:


> Agree with everything you said. No problems in my area with shortages of anything at our grocery stores. It's very calm and peaceful. You can hear a pin drop in our palazzo. We are happy to be safe and sound with really nothing to worry about. We even had a check-up call from our doctor this morning with some new information on how to get a refill on a specific medication. We didn't have to call her. She called us. We also have an electric bicycle in the family.


And it's calm and peaceful where I am in the USA even though it's Florida and our Governor is a right-wing kook who refuses to enforce anything out of some bizarre libertarian impulse. Counties and cities are more proactive; the beaches are closed for example and today I actually saw the police chasing some scofflaws off of one. But I also saw large groups of people getting off boats, riding in jitneys, etc. 

I suspect that many people will get through this wondering what all the fuss was about until they look at the death count. For many others its going to be the proverbial "slow motion train wreck" watching one neighbor then another get sick and then seeing the hospitals overflow.

In the past year our President disbanded the pandemic working group in the National Security Agency and dismissed the Center for Disease Control's pandemic specialist in China. Now he wants to remove what few controls have been put in place because his investments are going down. Connect those dots to predict what's going to happen here. From reports the government of Italy is being extremely proactive even if the results have been disappointing.

I continue to communicate with friends in Umbria who seem much more perturbed than I'm hearing here.

Selah

:flypig:


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## John and Cecil

Please be safe Paulo. The numbers may be much worse that you are seeing. NY has been mass testing and they believe this is going to peak hard in about 2 - 3 weeks with 140,000 people in NY requiring to be hospitalized.

The Italians have been trying to warn everyone, but not everyone listens. They showed a convey of trucks moving bodies out of Bergamo and pleaded for everyone to stay inside  12 mayors in the northern region claim there are many more deaths that are not being tested for the virus nor reported because they happen in monasteries and convents. 

I just read a report, it appears 76% of those who died in Italy suffered from hypertension / high blood pressure. I am asking a friend to come up with a list of natural foods and supplements that lower blood pressure, I think it is a good idea for everyone to mind their blood pressure! 

Every area of Italy is different, just like every area in the US. It depends on the level of fear, when people are afraid they make bad decisions. I am on Sardinia and it is very calm here. I have read there are some people angry with all the people from the north flocking to the island after the lockdown came into effect, but mostly everyone I see are calm. This is something modern society has never experienced. The fires, floods, droughts, global warming, locust invasion, these are all 100 year events but nothing yet has compared to this. 

Perhaps it is not the Italians we should be listening too, but rather to God (or the environment). The planet is becoming hostile to us, of that I don't think anyone can deny any longer.


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## dave2020

John and Cecil said:


> I don't blame them for buying bottled water. America also has the problem of pharmaceutic laced tap water in nearly all the metropolitan areas. A lot of it is laced with antidepressants because nearly 20% or Americans have or are taking them. The AP did a study several years ago, yet the govt still refuses to test the water for drugs and they claim the reason is "the people won't understand the results".
> 
> They are not just stocking up on food and toilet paper in the US but also guns and ammunition. Right now there is an unprecedented amount of people buying up weapons there. The US has a lot of mass shootings, and some just because someone (perhaps on anti-depressants or stopped taking them) loses their job and then shoots all their coworkers. While the well-to-do are off in their vacation homes or bunkers, or worse taking up one of the precious few respirators, how is the guy with no health insurance but a closet full of guns going to react?
> 
> It may look bad in Italy but that is because we were the next in line, but I think the problem in the US is going to be much worse. I would not worry about the economy though, Trump will do everything he can to save the economy even if it means tossing 5% of the population under the bus to do so. His latest speech stated more people will commit suicide than will be killed by the virus if the US doesn't go back to work asap. He appears to believe it is better to let them die quickly and spare the economy.
> 
> I am so glad that I left the US when I did. I wish my friends in America the best and I am praying for them but I fear it will not be pretty
> 
> Btw, it is very calm here at least where I am. Most people are listening and stay at home, the grocery stores near me are well stocked (except for occasionally eggs). No one is out arming themselves like Rambo. Plenty of toilet paper, although we have bidets here anyway. Time to sit back and do some reading, or better yet some deep thought on how our race can change and stop all these 100 year disasters that happen around the clock. I for one am going vegetarian, and I drive an electric bicycle.


Your assertion that U.S. tap water is laced with antidepressants is absurd, and you know it.

This pandemic is so bad in Italy because of the population density and deficient healthcare infrastructure. I know because I lived in Italy for 8 years and my wife is Italian.

It's clear that you have a political agenda here with your ridiculous response. I've no doubt that if Barak Obama or Hilary Clinton were President you wouldn't be so critical. I'm surprised you haven't blamed this on climate change.

I'm glad you left the U.S., too


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## John and Cecil

dave2020 said:


> Your assertion that U.S. tap water is laced with antidepressants is absurd, and you know it.
> 
> This pandemic is so bad in Italy because of the population density and deficient healthcare infrastructure. I know because I lived in Italy for 8 years and my wife is Italian.
> 
> It's clear that you have a political agenda here with your ridiculous response. I've no doubt that if Barak Obama or Hilary Clinton were President you wouldn't be so critical. I'm surprised you haven't blamed this on climate change.
> 
> I'm glad you left the U.S., too


Just do a search online and you will see many, many articles on the contaminated drinking water from both left and right news sources. The AP did a huge study in 2008, and it has only gotten worse since then:

_A vast array of pharmaceuticals — including antibiotics, anti-convulsants, mood stabilizers and sex hormones — have been found in the drinking water supplies of at least 41 million Americans, an Associated Press investigation shows.Mar 10, 2008_

Political agenda? This drug laced water problem started way before Trump, and I know both parties are corrupt. Obamacare made it much easier for everyone to get the drugs and pee them into the water, or did you not think of that before your not so well thought out response? 

How about all the mass shootings, or did I make that up too? You can search for mass shooting statistics for the USA if you wish. I know, "fake news" right? 

Climate change did not cause this, but the practice that is causing climate change likely did. Destroying animals habitats and moving civilization into new areas creates new diseases. But then you understand the underlying elements of nature better than anyone, right?

I hope you are right about Italy though, because the US is exploding with cases now. NY officials have stated they only have about 1/10th of the respirators they will need in this crisis. The mayor of Bergamo stated they have some of the best hospitals in the region there too, but again all "fake news" I guess.

It must be nice to have a clear conscience and not take responsibility for what is happening in the world by merely saying the news is fake or by being ignorant. 

As for your personal attack on me, if that makes you feel power over me then I will give it to you. I am also glad that you are glad that I am no longer in the US.


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## PauloPievese

Children, take it offline.


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## John and Cecil

Sorry Paulo, I just don't like personal attacks. I would have let the ignorance go, I am used to it. He did make his account just to attack me, it was his first post and it is still awaiting confirmation.


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## dave2020

John and Cecil said:


> Just do a search online and you will see many, many articles on the contaminated drinking water from both left and right news sources. The AP did a huge study in 2008, and it has only gotten worse since then:
> 
> _A vast array of pharmaceuticals — including antibiotics, anti-convulsants, mood stabilizers and sex hormones — have been found in the drinking water supplies of at least 41 million Americans, an Associated Press investigation shows.Mar 10, 2008_
> 
> Political agenda? This drug laced water problem started way before Trump, and I know both parties are corrupt. Obamacare made it much easier for everyone to get the drugs and pee them into the water, or did you not think of that before your not so well thought out response?
> 
> How about all the mass shootings, or did I make that up too? You can search for mass shooting statistics for the USA if you wish. I know, "fake news" right?
> 
> Climate change did not cause this, but the practice that is causing climate change likely did. Destroying animals habitats and moving civilization into new areas creates new diseases. But then you understand the underlying elements of nature better than anyone, right?
> 
> I hope you are right about Italy though, because the US is exploding with cases now. NY officials have stated they only have about 1/10th of the respirators they will need in this crisis. The mayor of Bergamo stated they have some of the best hospitals in the region there too, but again all "fake news" I guess.
> 
> It must be nice to have a clear conscience and not take responsibility for what is happening in the world by merely saying the news is fake or by being ignorant.
> 
> As for your personal attack on me, if that makes you feel power over me then I will give it to you. I am also glad that you are glad that I am no longer in the US.


I wasn't attacking you personally, I was attacking your hyperbolic statements. You claimed that nearly all major metropolitan areas in the U.S. have tap water laced with pharmaceuticals, which is just not true. There's no doubt that some municipalities have contaminated water as is the case in most of the world, but you make it sound as if the U.S. is just awful. You cite a single AP "study" from 12 years ago. That study found *tiny* amounts, in parts per billion and trillion, in the drinking water of 24 major metropolitan areas - not nearly all as you stated. They found drugs in water in Canada as well. Is Canada also now a horrible place? Here's another quote from the article:
"Contamination is not confined to the United States. More than 100 different pharmaceuticals have been detected in lakes, rivers, reservoirs and streams throughout the world. Studies have detected pharmaceuticals in waters throughout Asia, Australia, Canada and Europe — even in Swiss lakes and the North Sea."
So not just the United States.

People buy guns when they are scared. They are scared because people like you and the mass media hype up events like this coronavirus outbreak and create panic. Yes, Covid-19 is serious and kills some people, but I've seen reports from a number of doctors over the past few days who say the mortality rate is actually much lower than the WHO and the media claimed a few weeks ago, somewhere in the range of 0.1-0.5%, not 3-4% or 10% as many were claiming. 

Half of the cases of Covid-19 in the U.S. are in NYC. Why? Because of the population density. I guarantee that the problem won't be as bad in the U.S. overall as it is in Italy. As to why it is so bad in Italy, who knows? The fact remains, however, that Italy was woefully unprepared for this and didn't respond quickly enough.

Yes, there are more mass shootings and serial killers in the U.S than anywhere else in the world. I don't know why this is, but it is true. 

It's clear that you enjoy making claims about how bad the United States is and how you are so much better off in Italy. If that makes you feel better than good for you.

I won't just stand by and let you or anyone else make foolish and false statements about the U.S., or Italy for that matter. 

This is now my second post. My future posts won't have anything to do with what you post as long as you post the truth and back up your exaggerated claims.


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## John and Cecil

NYC hospital report:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/27/new-york-coronavirus-elmhurst-hospital

The problem was Italy was first. The new problem is people claiming it is like "the flu" and it will "go away before you know it" and "some doctors claim this or that". All that does is keep others from preparing. Obviously population density is a factor, and a majority of the US population is in cities and along the coast.

And by saying you were glad that I left the US was an attack on me personally.

As for violence, the FBI just killed a man plotting to blow up a coronavirus hospital in Missouri this week, maybe he was just scared though. And heres an article about the US having a mass shooting every day:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mass-shootings-2019-more-than-days-365/

Here's another article that you claimed I lied about:

https://www.huffingtonpost.it/entry...ntere-generazioni_it_5e7738e3c5b63c3b649204a8

I could post 100 articles showing everything I have said is the truth. BTW, 0.1% is the flu death rate. Italy has been hit by the flu every year and they never had convoys of trucks sent in by the military to move bodies because there is no place to burn or bury them.  I never heard about people dying in the emergency room waiting for beds, or having to store the bodies in refrigerator trucks or on ice rinks from the flu.

Such a sad event, and then there is always one in a group who tries to make it look like it never happened.


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## John and Cecil

Wrong link posted above, this is the link where the mayor of Bergamo discusses the quality of the hospitals, the 12 nearby town mayors claiming much higher numbers of deaths, how they must ship bodies out because of the shear numbers, etc:

https://www.huffingtonpost.it/entry...nche-le-fabbriche_it_5e74ad81c5b63c3b648e6263

Another sad story I read about earlier today was about a 17 yo boy had symptoms of the virus and was very ill so he went to a hospital in LA (USA). They refused to admit him because he did not have healthcare insurance, they told him to try another hospital. The boy died before getting to the next hospital. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/t...se-he-didnt-have-health-insurance/ar-BB11N147

I assume I now posted enough links per your request to show proof.


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## GeordieBorn

I believe every bad thing I hear about the USA at the moment, simply because Trump is a bad guy! It matters little what US citizens think of him if the perception across the world is he’s bad… Of course the video of him grabbing women is fake… Then again the guy has his views and you could argue his statement that this will all be over in a few weeks has some validity. But then again you could ask why is he throwing $2 trillion at it? For anyone to argue that CV-19 is being seriously over hyped is madness – why take the risk?


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## NickZ

John and Cecil said:


> mayor of Bergamo.


That's the same mayor who told people to ignore the virus and go out for a pizza end of last month.


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## PauloPievese

*Stop!*

It appears that I cannot:
a) delete a post
b) delete a thread 
c) unsubscribe from a thread that I started.

I suspect that no one has continued to monitor this thread other than the troll and the lunatic therefore

*PLEASE STOP POSTING TO THIS THREAD*

To quote Elvis, I'm a thankin' ya.

:flypig:


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## Bevdeforges

I'll handle this one for you....


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