# Jalisco Violence ?



## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

Anyone heard about the violence happening in Guadalajara, Puerto Vallarta, and Leon ?


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

coondawg said:


> Anyone heard about the violence happening in Guadalajara, Puerto Vallarta, and Leon ?


From Informador:
29 bloqueos de vialidades en todo el Estado
15 detenidos
7 muertos
26 rutas de transporte público suspendidas
3 intentos fallidos de bloqueos
19 municipios afectados (6 de la metrópoli y el resto del interior del Estado)
4 enfrentamientos armados
15 heridos
11 bancos y caja popular afectados
16 gasolineras afectadas
3 intentos fallidos de incendios


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## Blast (Apr 10, 2015)

just what I read about in the news just now, sounds like quite a bit of activity, In Guad , ZAp, some other places in Jalisco < even setting fire to a Pemex station in PV.
6 dead, 12 wounded, many missing, Cars burning as roadblocks in 23 locations, helicopter full of soldiers & feds, stopped motorcade of Cartel members.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

WOW ! Looks like the last State Dept. Advisory was right about Jalisco.


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

coondawg said:


> WOW ! Looks like the last State Dept. Advisory was right about Jalisco.


Coondawg. Not a good day for gloating. At least wait until tomorrow and show a little empathy today.


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## sag42 (Mar 22, 2012)

Looks like Jalisco is turning into another Tamaulipas and Guadalajara another Reynosa.


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## cuerna1 (Mar 7, 2015)

coondawg said:


> WOW ! Looks like the last State Dept. Advisory was right about Jalisco.


. never mind


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

sag42 said:


> Looks like Jalisco is turning into another Tamaulipas and Guadalajara another Reynosa.


That would be really sad. I have several friends that still live in Chapala and they seem more worried now than a couple of years ago. This JNG cartel seems to have expanded over most of Mexico in about 6 months, making it a powerful cartel and seems to be constantly fighting others to extend it's hold and control. Seems they are making the point with authorities to not mess with them.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

This can be pretty amusing stuff. We have lived on Lake Chapala for 15 years and in San Cristóbal de Las Casas for eight years. When we moved to Chiapas in 2006 the place was kind of scary but now we find it kind of nice to be able to escape to Zapatistaland down around the Guatemala border to escape increasinngly dangerous Jalisco. One thing we learned about cockroaches in Alabama is the more you stomp on their sorry asses the more their cousins proliferate in your kitchen.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

Don't think it quite got to Leon



> "The narco-blockades in Jalisco … are due to the detention of El Mencho, leader of the CJNG," tweeted Jaime Barrera, editor of the Milenio newspapers in Jalisco. A candidate for governor of Colima also relayed the unconfirmed statement.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

We have heard reports of 3 vehicles torched in hwys in/around Leon. Have not contacted relatives yet. Other than those burnings, nothing else, so far.


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

From what I hear, extranjeros are not worried about "home invasions" or being targets, from the violence, but more that they will wind up in the middle of some situation of confrontation as they go places. Those that are not very active don't seem very concerned.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

A couple of weeks ago we were driving from San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas to Orizaba, Veracruz on our way back to Lake Chapala and on the autopista from Tuxtla Gutiérrez to Tinaja - a normally rather lonely highway - there were numerous cops and federal agents manning roadblocks here and there and, while checkpoints are not unusual in Chiapas because of the large number of Central Americans coming furtively across the Guatemala/Mexico border seeking employment opportunites in Mexico or farther north. , we were amazed at the number of cops and other officials patrolling and stopping cars along that stretch of road which is about 250 kilometers more or less through Chiapas, Tabasco and Veracruz States before one gets to Minatitlán, Veracruz. We inquired as to what was going on along the way and it seems that bandits were stopping cars along that autopista and robbing the occupants at gunpoint. The federal cops eventually nailed these creeps; killed one and arrested two others and - guess what - these incidents - which were quite serious and dangerous - never made the news either locally or nationally. Peña Nieto declared that he would reduce random, violent crime in both rural and urban áreas of Mexico and here is how he has accomplished that. These crimes are simply not reported nor even acknowledged. This is an old trick employed by George Wallace in Alabama when I was a kid in the 1950s and 1960s so it´s old news to me. His notion was that when African- American citizens marched through the streets demanding equal opportunities with European Americans - simply ignore them but he couldn´t control the big city press in Alabama so his tactic didn´t work. The free press in Mexico will also ignore Peña Nieto's desires but, tell me, how many of you media-wise people know that the autopista between Tuxtla Gutiérrez and the Veracrus border was, for a time, taken over by bandits harassing and robbing motorists at gunpoint? We only know because we happened to be driving along that route that day although we, luckily, did not encounter any of these highway theives.. 

Do not believe crime statistics you read about in the newspaper. We are all being manipulated.


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## perezl (Nov 16, 2012)

Does this affect the road towards Aguascalientes y Santa Ana area....??


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## perezl (Nov 16, 2012)

Do I need to worry about travel from Guadalajara to Queretaro or SMA? Or down into Colima?


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

perezl said:


> Do I need to worry about travel from Guadalajara to Queretaro or SMA? Or down into Colima?


For us, it usually depends on when and how we would want to go, and what the latest advisory said. Things change from day to day, so one never knows. Just do your thing and have your Plan B and Plan C ready, knowing how you would handle each type of problem, if one were to present itself on your travels. The more time you spend here without problems, the more careful and knowledgeable you have become. You will not hear from anyone here who has had bad experiences, because those people are long gone from here and put those experiences behind them. No one here can tell you how your trip will be tomorrow, all we can tell you is how our trip went, or how we have heard others went. Things change. You must decide for yourself. Good luck.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

coondawg said:


> From what I hear, extranjeros are not worried about "home invasions" or being targets, from the violence, but more that they will wind up in the middle of some situation of confrontation as they go places. Those that are not very active don't seem very concerned.


For many, ignorance is bliss.

All too many expats in Mexico, in my experience, are oblivious to current events in the country and don't sufficiently understand Spanish (written and/or spoken). I agree with the sentiment, though, that expats aren't typically, specifically targeted in these narco-terrorist activities(though some have been, more often along the USA/Mexico). As far as other crimes, such as home invasions, etc. ... yes, expats have been and are, from what I know, specifically targeted (but not in percentages larger than Mexican citizens/residents are targeted by criminals).

What's unsettling to expats, and Mexicans as well, in the narco-terrorist activities in major cities in Mexico is finding oneself on the scene of violence or threats when they occur. These are situations most North American expats are unfamiliar with in the communities where they lived in their 'home' country. Roads blocked with burning busses. Automatic gunfire. Etc. Nobody wants to be victimized, or face the fear/threat of being victimized ... as an 'innocent bystander.'


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

coondawg said:


> From what I hear, extranjeros are not worried about "home invasions" or being targets, from the violence, but more that they will wind up in the middle of some situation of confrontation as they go places. Those that are not very active don't seem very concerned.


Explanation(?):



> Similarly, the narco attacks continued early Saturday in Leon, where men used gasoline to set fire to Municipal Transit Police patrol vehicle and a gift shop. Yesterday, when questioned by these facts, the Ministerial Authorities declined to comment. That night, the local government issued a statement to clarify that there was a prisoner designated as responsible for the fires.


Source: Borderland Beat


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


Longford said:



For many, ignorance is bliss.

All too many expats in Mexico, in my experience, are oblivious to current events in the country and don't sufficiently understand Spanish (written and/or spoken). I agree with the sentiment, though, that expats aren't typically, specifically targeted in these narco-terrorist activities(though some have been, more often along the USA/Mexico). As far as other crimes, such as home invasions, etc. ... yes, expats have been and are, from what I know, specifically targeted (but not in percentages larger than Mexican citizens/residents are targeted by criminals).

What's unsettling to expats, and Mexicans as well, in the narco-terrorist activities in major cities in Mexico is finding oneself on the scene of violence or threats when they occur. These are situations most North American expats are unfamiliar with in the communities where they lived in their 'home' country. Roads blocked with burning busses. Automatic gunfire. Etc. Nobody wants to be victimized, or face the fear/threat of being victimized ... as an 'innocent bystander.'

Click to expand...

_Well said, Longford I´m not trying to suck up to you but you are actually beginnning to show some intelligence.

I re-state my earlier point. There we were driving back to Lake Chapala from San Cristóbal and we got off to a late start. The autopista from Tuxtla Gutiérrez to Tinaja was lined with cops and, as it turned out, bandits were stopping cars on that normally lonely highway, boxing them in and robbing the passengers. Had we not left home late, there is a good chance that we, especially with Jalisco license plates, would have been singled out as victims of the highwaymen. 

A couple of months before that we were driving back from the Guerrero Coast to Lake Chapala and before we entered the autopista to head north to Chapala, narco gangs had murdered an official at the toll plaza for cars entering the autopista,

Now things are going to hell in Jalisco with all sorts of banditry and killings along the roadway and in certain establishments. I think it´s time to hunker down behind tall walls and live on BLT sammiches. 

I grew up in some very violent places in the United States and lived in a number of violent places overseas but this ambushing and killing of numerous cops on patrol is a new experience for me. Watch your backs, folks.


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## sparks (Jun 17, 2007)

All kinds of military action from Autlan to La Huerta on highway 80

CANAL235 / Informativo Regional de Jalisco, Colima y Michoacán


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## AlanMexicali (Jun 1, 2011)

sparks said:


> All kinds of military action from Autlan to La Huerta on highway 80
> 
> CANAL235 / Informativo Regional de Jalisco, Colima y Michoacán


Kind of deflates coondawg´s idea that the cartel May 1st assaults were trying to make a statement for the Federal Government in Jalisco, "Don´t mess with us." When I read that the image of someone hitting a hornet´s nest with a stick popped into my head for a moment. :confused2:


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## cscscs007 (Jan 8, 2011)

The security presence in and around La Huerta is most likely because that area is where El Mencho from CJNG is known to run the cartel. This area is not very far from me so I use extra caution, as everyone else is doing also. Some of the other expats, like in Puerto Vallarta actually believe the statements issued by the Govt. and continue as if there is nothing to be cautious about, which is concerning to me.

Oh come on now you say, the Govt. wouldn't lie about something like this?...........or would they?


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## coondawg (May 1, 2014)

cscscs007 said:


> This area is not very far from me so I use extra caution, as everyone else is doing also. Some of the other expats, like in Puerto Vallarta actually believe the statements issued by the Govt. and continue as if there is nothing to be cautious about, which is concerning to me.
> 
> Oh come on now you say, the Govt. wouldn't lie about something like this?...........or would they?


Ever think that maybe the US government "gives" some in their warnings so that Mexico continues "the good fight"? This does seem to contradict those who say that the US warnings are too severe. Go figure.


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

My wife hosted a breakfast this morning. In attendance was the local priest who happens to be from the La Huerta area. Cuautitlan de Garcia Barragan to be exact but his large and extended family lives throughout the valley, with many in Villa Purificacion. He was told by those family members that the amount of people killed in last weeks confrontations near Purificacion far exceeds the official report. The number he mentioned was 40. And these people aren't known to exaggerate.


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## Hound Dog (Jan 18, 2009)

_


Cristobal said:



My wife hosted a breakfast this morning. In attendance was the local priest who happens to be from the La Huerta area. Cuautitlan de Garcia Barragan to be exact but his large and extended family lives throughout the valley, with many in Villa Purificacion. He was told by those family members that the amount of people killed in last weeks confrontations near Purificacion far exceeds the official report. The number he mentioned was 40. And these people aren't known to exaggerate.

Click to expand...

_While this may not be totally true I have no problem believing what your priest is saying. The problems in Jalisco have many characteristics of an insurrection and there is no telling where we go from here. These ongoing crimes are not reported in the Mexican or foreign press generally speaking

It´s a certainty that there is a great deal of serious violence in Chiapas that never makes the newspapers or televisión reports. We know of this because my wife listens to local radio in the morning in San Cristóbal when this ongoing violence is reported to locals just like the old "town cryer" days in isolated parts of the U.S. Much of this violence in rural Chiapas is among the indigenous living in the jungles and other isolated áreas and we are talking of multiple killings here over ongoing land and sovereignty disputes as simple at times as one village planting crops on disputed land betweeen various ethnic groups but I am just touching the surface here. The border bteween Chiapas and Guatemala is porous jungle land separated by uncontrolled rivers or unending forests. Immigration agents and federal cops are notoriously crooked and if illegal immigrants escape criminal gangs. officiasl will take them to the cleaners and leave them destitute. I admire the guts of these incredibly poor villagers who risk their lives for the most modest jobs in Southern Mexico or ride "The Beast" freight train to the U.S. border which is dangerous enough just in the act of boarding and then to perhaps become victims of extremely violent gangsters while riding north. Actually, as in the past, these are the kinds of gutsy, hard-working, adventurous people Mexico the U.S. and Canada need to boost their economies They used to be Irish, Poles and other Europeans but now they are Mexicans and Central Americans. Godspeed to them.

Foreign expats live in Mexico with no notion of what´s going on around them but, for now, I´ll limit my travel over back country roads to Southern Mexico until Jalisco settles down.


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## Cristobal (Nov 25, 2014)

In the past 3 years, 2 young men we know, and who had nothing whatsoever to do with the drug trade disappeared in the La Huerta area. One, who was a good friend of our son, worked for a mining company. Apparently the company had refused to pay the local cartel extortion money and this young man paid the price. The most disgusting detail of the whole ordeal was, he had manged to escape the pursuit and had taken up refuge in a local home where he contacted his father in Guadalajara. His father notified local law enforcement who sent officers to supposedly rescue the young man only to have them deliver him straight to the bad guys.

Another young man, the son of our insurance agent, had gone to La Huerta to pay the property taxes on farmland that had been in the family for several generations. He was abducted and held for ransom which consisted of signing over the land to someone in the cartel. He was never seen again. Apparently the cartel has people in catastro that tip them off when certain people, owners of a particular parcel, pay their property taxes.


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## Longford (May 25, 2012)

Hound Dog said:


> The problems in Jalisco have many characteristics of an insurrection and there is no telling where we go from here. These ongoing crimes are not reported in the Mexican or foreign press generally speaking.


A _narco-terrorist insurrection_ against the people in these communities ... maybe. But these are acts of narco-terrorism and criminal acts related to the narco-terrorists which have skyrocketed in number over the years and aren't the byproduct of general civil insurrection by persons unassociated with the cartels. You're right about most of what's taking place never seeing the 'light of day' in the press. The Mexican press/media has been self-censoring for a long time now because reporters who actively report on these events/activities/crimes for the regional/local newspapers are targeted for murder. 'Word of mouth' and some other few mentions in social media is how such news is being disseminated.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

Cristobal said:


> In the past 3 years, 2 young men we know, and who had nothing whatsoever to do with the drug trade disappeared in the La Huerta area. One, who was a good friend of our son, worked for a mining company. Apparently the company had refused to pay the local cartel extortion money and this young man paid the price. The most disgusting detail of the whole ordeal was, he had manged to escape the pursuit and had taken up refuge in a local home where he contacted his father in Guadalajara. His father notified local law enforcement who sent officers to supposedly rescue the young man only to have them deliver him straight to the bad guys.
> 
> Another young man, the son of our insurance agent, had gone to La Huerta to pay the property taxes on farmland that had been in the family for several generations. He was abducted and held for ransom which consisted of signing over the land to someone in the cartel. He was never seen again. Apparently the cartel has people in catastro that tip them off when certain people, owners of a particular parcel, pay their property taxes.


This is the type of information that most "outsiders" (for want of a better term) will never hear. Not just because the media self-censors, but because in a climate of intimidation and extortion people in general self-censor. They don't report it to law enforcement due to lack of trust. They generally aren't going to go around talking about it because they don't know who to trust, who may be working with whom. If a ransom is requested, should they pay, should they not? If they pay and the person isn't released what recourse do they have? If they protest or complain about what's happening, they or another family member may become the next victim. It's heartbreaking. The difference in Iguala was the safety in numbers when so many were disappeared at once. When these kidnappings/killings occur one by one, sporadically, it's riskier to try to publicize it.


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