# applying for residency



## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

hi everyone

I posted a lot on here last year, when I was on the point of buying a place in Andalucía (i.e. before the Brexit disaster).

I desperately want to live in Spain again, as I did for many years some 20 years ago. Because of this, I would like to see if I can apply for residency before Brexit. However, I do have to stay in Britain for the moment for work reasons.

I already have an NIE number. Is it going to be possible to apply for residency (for three months plus)? I am obviously prepared to spend some time at the Extranjería office 

I will not, obviously, be either employed in Spain or self-employed at this stage. I found this on the UK government site, and I think this is therefore the section that applies:

"c) People who do not work in Spain must produce documentation proving that they comply with the following two conditions:
i. Public or private health insurance contracted in Spain or in another country, provided that it ensures cover in Spain during their period of residence equivalent to the cover provided by the National Health System. Pensioners will be considered to meet this condition if they can prove, by means of the corresponding certificate, that they are entitled to health care paid for by the State from which they receive their pension
ii. have sufficient resources, for themselves and their family members, not to become a burden on Spain’s social assistance system during their period of residence. Proof of the possession of sufficient resources, whether from regular income, including work income or income of another kind, or from ownership of assets, will be given by any legally admissible evidence, such as property deeds, certified cheques, documentation proving that income from capital is received or credit cards. In this latter case, an up to date bank certificate proving the amount available by way of credit on the aforesaid card shall be produced. The assessment of sufficient resources must be carried out on an individual basis, taking into account the applicant’s personal and family circumstances. The possession of resources that are more than the amount established each year by the State General Budgets Act “Ley de Presupuestos Generales de Estado” that justifies the right to receive non-contributory benefits, taking into account the interested persons’ personal and family circumstances, will be regarded as sufficient proof to meet this requirement"

What I would like to know if what proof of finances and/or health insurance will be required of me. I am obviously currently covered by the NHS, and can provide UK bank statements.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

suiko said:


> hi everyone
> 
> I posted a lot on here last year, when I was on the point of buying a place in Andalucía (i.e. before the Brexit disaster).
> 
> ...


You cannot be resident in Spain and the U.K. Once resident in Spain, in theory you will not have access to the NHS. 

The financial stuff varies quoting 600€_ 800€
Healthcare you will need an annual private health policy

And I think proof of address?


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## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

Megsmum said:


> You cannot be resident in Spain and the U.K. Once resident in Spain, in theory you will not have access to the NHS.
> 
> The financial stuff varies quoting 600€_ 800€
> Healthcare you will need an annual private health policy
> ...


Thanks.

But surely as an EU citizen I currently enjoy access to Spanish health service through bilateral agreement? My Mum was certainly treated for an injury a few years back on production of E111.

Proof of address would involve what exactly?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

suiko said:


> Thanks.
> 
> But surely as an EU citizen I currently enjoy access to Spanish health service through bilateral agreement? My Mum was certainly treated for an injury a few years back on production of E111.
> 
> Proof of address would involve what exactly?


An E111 is for "medically necessary" (see video below) treatment for non residents. After 90 days residence in Spain you are automatically considered a resident whether or not you have signed on the EU residents list and have you certificate to prove it.
More info here
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthcare-in-spain
And here


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## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

Thanks. But if it is "automatic", and assuming you don't sign on at any official institution, how does anyone know how long you have been there?


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

suiko said:


> Thanks. But if it is "automatic", and assuming you don't sign on at any official institution, how does anyone know how long you have been there?


Because it's against the rules, we would all love to be using the Spanish health system and not working or paying out on private health, but it's against the rules. 

Proof of address. Rental contract or home ownership

Residency will not be given on an E11. That's why


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

suiko said:


> Thanks.
> 
> But surely as an EU citizen I currently enjoy access to Spanish health service through bilateral agreement? My Mum was certainly treated for an injury a few years back on production of E111.
> 
> Proof of address would involve what exactly?


But you are asking what proof of healthcare and finances you would need in order to register as a resident in Spain (presumably before a potential cut-off date potentially comes into force as a result of Brexit).

As you have been informed, you will need evidence of comprehensive private medical insurance (a policy with no co-payments). The EHIC card is not acceptable because it is for visitors, not for residents.

Proof of address would involve either an escritura (title deeds) if you own a property, or a Spanish rental contract (and probably with a copy of the owner's DNI).

We went through all this in another thread very recently where another member was hoping to do the same thing. You really cannot be considered a resident of two countries at the same time.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

suiko said:


> Thanks. But if it is "automatic", and assuming you don't sign on at any official institution, how does anyone know how long you have been there?


Not sure if this is the answer you are looking for....
You are automatically _considered_ to be resident, but you won't _legally_ be a resident if you haven't applied to be registered.

Many people don't bother to do so, but then they aren't here legally and that could cause problems for them later on down the line.

This will all change after Brexit, but what the changes will be Nobody Knows - yet.
Save​


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## suiko (Dec 7, 2015)

OK. But from what you say, Lynn, there is no reason why this would not be possible, should I be prepared to take on a rental contract and buy an insurance policy?

What an almighty ****ing mess all this is


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

suiko said:


> OK. But from what you say, Lynn, there is no reason why this would not be possible, should I be prepared to take on a rental contract and buy an insurance policy?
> 
> What an almighty ****ing mess all this is



But I'm not sure how that helps you. What about proof of income? You can't be resident here and in the U.K. You also need to look at the fiscal residency, where you declare taxes.

Yes it is a mess


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Why is it a mess?
There are lot of things to think about, but is it a mess?


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Why is it a mess?
> There are lot of things to think about, but is it a mess?


Probably the wrong word. I suppose there are lots of unknowns and lots of issues to be addressed. Whether it turns out to be a mess time will tell?


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

suiko said:


> OK. But from what you say, Lynn, there is no reason why this would not be possible, should I be prepared to take on a rental contract and buy an insurance policy?
> 
> What an almighty ****ing mess all this is


I didn't say there is no reason why it would not be possible. I said you really can't be considered a resident of two countries at the same time.

If it's a mess, then you know who to blame for it - the 52% who voted to Leave.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Megsmum said:


> Probably the wrong word. I suppose there are lots of unknowns and lots of issues to be addressed. Whether it turns out to be a mess time will tell?


Ahh, ok, sorry if I was being dense. How things are at the moment I think can appear complicated, although I think it's probably complicated to change your country of residence to most countries.
In the future, as you say, time will tell.


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## Gran Erry-Bredd (Nov 1, 2016)

No need to swear Suiko, it's you that is the problem and not the rules. You want to benefit from both Britain and Spain but you're in a panic because the rules won't allow it and you're annoyed trying to work out how to fiddle the system. :boom:


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

suiko said:


> OK. But from what you say, Lynn, there is no reason why this would not be possible, should I be prepared to take on a rental contract and buy an insurance policy?
> 
> What an almighty ****ing mess all this is


As an EU citizen registering in Spain you complete one A4 form, provide the documentation proving that you can support yourself in Spain & are covered for healthcare in Spain.

In the UK, as an EU citizen registering there, you would have to complete an *85 page application form*, provide the documentation proving that you can support yourself & are covered for healthcare.


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## Roland_O (Oct 17, 2016)

suiko said:


> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The Spanish system for proof of address is to register with the local town hall. Take your house deeds or rental agreement to them and they put you on their list of residents and give you a certificate that lets you apply for residency.

To prove funds you will need a Spanish bank account with either a ton of money in it (20k for a couple), or regular income payments arriving (600 to 800 per month). The banks here will issue a suitable certificate. 

To prove healthcare you will need Spanish private insurance, say 1,200 for a couple for a year. The insurer will give you a certificate. 

You take all these certificates and your NIE to a special center, in person, and they give you a resident card. Once done you are resident and will have to pay Spanish taxes on worldwide income. You can use a lawyer or gestor to help with this scary bit.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Roland_O said:


> The Spanish system for proof of address is to register with the local town hall. Take your house deeds or rental agreement to them and they put you on their list of residents and give you a certificate that lets you apply for residency.
> 
> To prove funds you will need a Spanish bank account with either a ton of money in it (20k for a couple), or regular income payments arriving (600 to 800 per month). The banks here will issue a suitable certificate.
> 
> ...


Official guidelines for EU citizens is that they need to register as resident & produce the resident certificate/card in order to register on the padron.
This is the case in my area, although I know that not all areas follow these guidelines


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> Official guidelines for EU citizens is that they need to register as resident & produce the resident certificate/card in order to register on the padron.
> This is the case in my area, although I know that not all areas follow these guidelines


Do you have a link to these guidelines as there seems to be a LOT of confusion as to what should happen first.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

I posted it a couple of years ago. I thought I had saved it in the FAQ thread?

In the end though, you end up doing what your local office wants


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

Megsmum said:


> You cannot be resident in Spain and the U.K. Once resident in Spain, in theory you will not have access to the NHS.
> 
> The financial stuff varies quoting 600€_ 800€
> Healthcare you will need an annual private health policy
> ...


There is a massive difference between theory and practice!

All the Residence Certificate does is allow the holder to live in Spain for more than 3 months. It also demonstrates that the holder had produced evidence of sufficient financial means to support themselves (and dependants) whilst living in Spain.

To say that once you have a Residence Certificate that you no longer have access to the NHS in the UK is wrong There are plenty of "snowbirds" who migrate and live in Spain for say 5 months in the winter, before returning "home" for the summer. These individuals still have full access to the NHS in the UK and have made their own arrangements for healthcare whilst living in Spain.

Mind you, I would suggest that for every person who has the completed the correct paperwork there may be one, maybe more who hasn't bothered. They may find things change from March 2019.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

xabiachica said:


> I posted it a couple of years ago. I thought I had saved it in the FAQ thread?
> 
> In the end though, you end up doing what your local office wants


I agree that it depends upon each office but I think if there are rules, then we should post a link to these. 

I have searched the FAQ and can't find the link you mention.

I think it would be VERY helpful to everyone to know the correct process (as defined) even if local offices haven't yet 'caught up' with the law.


Please, can you try and find the link that you've quoted - thanks.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Blanco53 said:


> There is a massive difference between theory and practice!
> 
> All the Residence Certificate does is allow the holder to live in Spain for more than 3 months. It also demonstrates that the holder had produced evidence of sufficient financial means to support themselves (and dependants) whilst living in Spain.
> 
> ...


They are not giving up there residency in the U.K.,and I doubt any have got residency in Spain as they are snowbirds as you refer to them but they still have a house etc. In UK. You cannot access healthcare in the U.K. you cannot be a full time resident in Spain and have access to the .NHS. some do, those that do are free loaders.


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

I think it should also be pointed out that the Spanish authorities are really on the ball now concerning residency and tax. Last week our joint account was blocked by Bankia because we hadn't responded to message requiring us to confirm our fiscal residency. Believe it or not. We had to wait the whole weekend using an old UK credit card as we had no access to our Spanish funds. Another friend of mine has just been fined for not declaring an account she had in Belgum following the sale of some shares. My wife works in the fiscal office of a lawyer here and often reports on Brits telling her that "how can they know if I have a house or accounts in the UK". But many are now getting caught. Oh yes, the fines are much bigger than the £150 late self-assessment in the UK


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

kaipa said:


> I think it should also be pointed out that the Spanish authorities are really on the ball now concerning residency and tax. Last week our joint account was blocked by Bankia because we hadn't responded to message requiring us to confirm our fiscal residency. Believe it or not. We had to wait the whole weekend using an old UK credit card as we had no access to our Spanish funds. Another friend of mine has just been fined for not declaring an account she had in Belgum following the sale of some shares. My wife works in the fiscal office of a lawyer here and often reports on Brits telling her that "how can they know if I have a house or accounts in the UK". But many are now getting caught. Oh yes, the fines are much bigger than the £150 late self-assessment in the UK


Very probably the automatic exchange of information between countries has something to do with it.

https://www.blevinsfranks.com/news/blevinsfranks/article/exchange-of-information-2016-2017-spain

I think a lot of people never really believed this would happen, in spite of all the reports there have been in the press about it over the last few years. Anybody who falls foul of it only has themselves to blame.


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

Megsmum said:


> They are not giving up there residency in the U.K.,and I doubt any have got residency in Spain as they are snowbirds as you refer to them but they still have a house etc. In UK. You cannot access healthcare in the U.K. you cannot be a full time resident in Spain and have access to the .NHS. some do, those that do are free loaders.


There you go again. Having a Certificate de Residencia (and this is what this thread is about) does not mean that you are a "full-time resident in Spain", it just means you can live in Spain for more than 3 months. It has absolutely no effect as to whether you have access to NHS services....which of course you have, and does not mean you are a freeloader at all!

As someone who has helped a number of "snowbirds" obtain Residencia, lays bare your rather banal statement that "I doubt any have got residency in Spain".

What you fail to understand is that by getting your Residentia you are not becoming non-resident in the UK.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Blanco53 said:


> There you go again. Having a Certificate de Residencia (and this is what this thread is about) does not mean that you are a "full-time resident in Spain", it just means you can live in Spain for more than 3 months. It has absolutely no effect as to whether you have access to NHS services....which of course you have, and does not mean you are a freeloader at all!
> 
> As someone who has helped a number of "snowbirds" obtain Residencia, lays bare your rather banal statement that "I doubt any have got residency in Spain".
> 
> What you fail to understand is that by getting your Residentia you are not becoming non-resident in the UK.



Well if you're going to take the aggressive approach no need to discuss 

You cannot be resident in theory or otherwise in two countries. 

And in theory those "snowbirds " are not entitled to healthcare in the U.K. under new rules



> Katrina Osman of IHC Employee Benefits said: “Many people don’t realise that once they move abroad then they can’t simply return for a holiday or to visit family and use the NHS for non-emergency treatment. If you live abroad for more than three months you don’t automatically qualify for NHS treatment, even if you still have a UK passport.”
> She said those returning from Spain needed to be resident in Britain for at least six months before they could access NHS services. They would then need to register with a GP and be put on the waiting list for treatment, which could result in a further six to 12-month wait.


In theory by getting a Spanish residency card, you are telling the U.K. You are no longer resident in Spain. Long term holidays are different, I suspect that's the nub of the issue and what was the nub of this thread registering and not registering. To me it's not that difficult to understand. If your here on a long term holiday i.e. That's term " snowbirds" which may I say is a tad patronizing then you are intending to return to your country of official residency, Therefore in Spain you need private medical cover and when you go home to the U.K. You carry on as before. If you retire here with an S1 you're no longer entitled to NHS care, you've relinquished that right. If you come here, get residency here and associated benefits, return to the U.K. For healthcare you are feeeloading off the NHS. Yes the rules on signing in and signing off are very dependent on officials, however post 2019 it's going to be much clearer, and those coming on long term holidays might find it a tad more complex


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Megsmum said:


> Well if you're going to take the aggressive approach no need to discuss
> 
> You cannot be resident in theory or otherwise in two countries.
> 
> ...


I do agree with you on the whole, but actually, pensioners who are resident in Spain and have an S1 whereby their healthcare in Spain is paid for by the UK Government ARE now entitled to NHS treatment in the UK as well, not instead of. This was brought in when the S1s for early retirees were scrapped. Seems mad to me (and I hope everyone notes that it was a Tory Government who gave it to them) but that's the way it is.

I completely support the principle that you cannot be resident in two countries at once, though.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Lynn R said:


> I do agree with you on the whole, but actually, pensioners who are resident in Spain and have an S1 whereby their healthcare in Spain is paid for by the UK Government ARE now entitled to NHS treatment in the UK as well, not instead of. This was brought in when the S1s for early retirees were scrapped. Seems mad to me (and I hope everyone notes that it was a Tory Government who gave it to them) but that's the way it is.
> 
> I completely support the principle that you cannot be resident in two countries at once, though.



Yes but that's for those with S1s. You can't get an S1 unless I. Receipt of a state pension now. Therefore they're resident in Spain not resident in UK. I had forgot about the changes though. The UK gov website is not clear



> As a reminder, please be aware that within the UK, free NHS treatment is provided on the basis of someone being ‘ordinarily resident’. It is not dependent upon nationality, payment of UK taxes, national insurance contributions, being registered with a GP, having an NHS number or owning property in the UK.


People here on "long term" holidays are normally resident in the U.K. 

Is there an official link to Pensioners being able to "pop back" for treatment. Which GP do they register with? If they're Ordinarily resident here, which is very different to being here on a long term holiday


Found this re Scotland.... looks like you can't just "rock up" 

https://www.nhsinform.scot/care-sup...king-abroad#uk-passport-holders-living-abroad


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

If registering for residencia doesn't mean you are necessarily a resident what does that "non-resident" mean. Surely by submitting to the conditions of residencia means showing you can support yourself for more than 3 months i.e that you are living permanently in the country.


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

Megsmum said:


> Well if you're going to take the aggressive approach no need to discuss
> 
> You cannot be resident in theory or otherwise in two countries.
> 
> ...


I am sorry you found my response aggressive. It was probably borne out of frustration of someone who will not accept that they are providing misinformation, and therefore misleading folk who come on here for advice.

At the risk of repeating myself, and as someone who does this professionally, by obtaining the Certificado de Residencia you are not becoming resident in Spain. All that the Residencia does is allow the holder to stay in Spain for more than 3 months......simple as.

We then get this amazing piece of gobbledygook: "In theory by getting a Spanish residency card, you are telling the U.K. You are no longer resident in Spain." I won't even attempt to try to explain or understand those "wise words"!

I agree that if you contact the Overseas Healthcare Team at the DWP to request a Form S1 then you are giving notice that you intend to rely on the Spanish Health Service.* HOWEVER, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RESIDENCIA*

When then get another inaccurate statement: " Long term holidays are different". No, they are not. The law is quite specific and Royal Decree 240/07 requires that all EU citizens planning to live in Spain for more than 3 months need to register in person at the Oficina de Extranjeros to obtain their Residencia.

As someone who deals with "Snowbirds" professionally, they do not find the term *PATRONISING*, (note the spelling, my clients are from the UK not the US!), indeed at our local bowls clubs there are least NINE teams that use "snowbirds" in their team name.

Indeed my "snowbird" clients are to be applauded for doing things correctly, and ignore some of the misleading statements that tend to fly around some of these boards!

In summary,* by obtaining the Certificado de Residencia you are not becoming resident in Spain. All that the Residencia does is allow the holder to stay in Spain for more than 3 months.* On its own, it does not impact on your healthcare rights in the UK, and you are certainly not a freeloader!!


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Blanco53 said:


> I am sorry you found my response aggressive. It was probably borne out of frustration of someone who will not accept that they are providing misinformation, and therefore misleading folk who come on here for advice.
> 
> At the risk of repeating myself, and as someone who does this professionally, by obtaining the Certificado de Residencia you are not becoming resident in Spain. All that the Residencia does is allow the holder to stay in Spain for more than 3 months......simple as.
> 
> ...


How do your clients in this situation satisfy the healthcare requirements in order to be able to register as residents in Spain? If they don't have an S1 (and as you say, if they do have one then they have effectively declared to the DWP that they are no longer resident in the UK), then surely they must have Spanish private health insurance, and that has to be taken out for a full year and not just for 4 or 5 months, does it not? Neither an EHIC nor travel insurance would be accepted for the purposes of registration as far as I am aware.


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

Lynn R said:


> How do your clients in this situation satisfy the healthcare requirements in order to be able to register as residents in Spain? If they don't have an S1 (and as you say, if they do have one then they have effectively declared to the DWP that they are no longer resident in the UK), then surely they must have Spanish private health insurance, and that has to be taken out for a full year and not just for 4 or 5 months, does it not? Neither an EHIC nor travel insurance would be accepted for the purposes of registration as far as I am aware.


Firstly my clients are not registering as residents in Spain, but are gaining authorisation to live in Spain for more than 3 months. I have a contact at my local Oficinas de Extranjeros that will accept the EHIC to meet the healthcare requirements of Residencia.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Blanco53 said:


> Firstly my clients are not registering as residents in Spain, but are gaining authorisation to live in Spain for more than 3 months. I have a contact at my local Oficinas de Extranjeros that will accept the EHIC to meet the healthcare requirements of Residencia.


Then your contact is not following the rules correctly.

An EHIC is for a temporary stay in Spain (in this case) - as it won't last fot 12 months how can it be accepted?


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Blanco53 said:


> Firstly my clients are not registering as residents in Spain, but are gaining authorisation to live in Spain for more than 3 months. I have a contact at my local Oficinas de Extranjeros that will accept the EHIC to meet the healthcare requirements of Residencia.



You are confusing different issues, I'm sorry you cannot get residency in most parts of Spain using the EHIC if you could, then people would not get private health care. You can not live here full time without either S1 or Private healthcare. 

I would love to see the official site which clearly states to be a resident in Spain, i.e. To get the green residencia card, you can use EHIC as proof of healthcare... if that's the case many of us on here will not need to rely on Private health or working.



> Citizens of the EU and their family members have the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the EU, subject to certain conditions. This right is conferred directly on every EU citizen by Article 21 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. As specified in directive 2004/38pdf, the following rules apply:
> Article 6: EU citizens can reside on the territory of another EU country for up to three months without any conditions other than the requirement to hold a valid identity card or passport;
> Article 7: To reside in another EU country for more than three months, EU citizens are required to meet certain conditions depending on their status (i.e. worker, student, etc.) and may also be required to meet certain administrative formalities;


https://www.gov.uk/guidance/residency-requirements-in-spain


> The temporary residence forms were replaced by the European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) on the 1st of June, 2004.
> 
> This card is valid for one individual and entitles them to receive the necessary medical health care when they are temporarily residing in one of the countries that forms part of the European Union, the European Economic Area, (Island, Liechtenstein, Norway) or Switzerland, taking into account the type of service and expected length of the stay. The period of validity is written on the European Health Card.



If you have an S1 you have declared to the U.K. you are no longer using the NHS
If you are resident in Spain you cannot be resident in the U.K., 

Your clients presumably do not have the Green residency cards then, if they're not actually residents, then they're tourists? 

I did not say if you had a residency card you were freeloading, I actually said. If you are resident ( which most people take to mean here permanently i.e. Staying here, and this is where your interests are ) in Spain and in receipt of an S1 you are/ were not entitled to free NHS treatment, although those that's "popped" back to use the NHS are freeloading, however Lynn corrected me on that point that's pensioners can access treatment on the NHS, although I've still to find any official site telling one how to do it.

If you can't answer questions without getting angry, then don't. I and many others are aware of the residency rules as they apply to us. I know of no one who got a residency card based on EHIC, I know many people who had to take out private healthcare to get residency. 



> European Health Insurance Card (EHIC)
> EU residents are entitled to free health care while in Spain for the first three months of their stay, so long as they can provide an EHIC (European Health Insurance Card). This will cover any immediate treatments needed. Medical conditions that do not require immediate treatment might incur charges. The EHIC card is not valid for health care in Spain if the holder is a Spanish resident.


And I didn't say I did not accept what you are saying, it's just what you are saying is not the advice given out by official sites....


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

snikpoh said:


> Then your contact is not following the rules correctly.
> 
> An EHIC is for a temporary stay in Spain (in this case) - as it won't last fot 12 months how can it be accepted?


Actually the Ministerio de Empleo y Seguridad Social doesn't set a precise timeframe:

_Dispone para sí y para los miembros de su familia, de recursos suficientes para no convertirse en una carga para la asistencia social de España durante su periodo de residencia. También deberá aportar un seguro de enfermedad público o privado, contratado en España o en otro país, que proporcione cobertura en España durante su período de residencia equivalente a la proporcionada por el Sistema Nacional de Salud._

In addition, I think there is now a degree of pragmatism at the Oficina de Extranjeros. They found that a number of people applying for Residencia canceled their private health insurance shortly after obtaining their card. After all the production of an EHIC will mean that the Spanish Healthcare will be reimbursed, and at the end of the day that is all the Residencia is.......proving that the holder will not be a financial burden on the State during their stay.

What I do agree with is the comment that things could well change come March 2019. And that I think was what originally gave rise to this thread. As a result, I am advising all those that do come to Spain, for 3 months or more to get their Residencia sooner rather than later, as it may not be so easy later.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

*Visitors to Spain*

The UK European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) is valid for holidaymakers and temporary visitors who need to use the state health system while in another EU country. If you are not normally a resident of the UK, and therefore do not have entitlement to a UK-issued EHIC, the Spanish authorities may decide to treat you as a private patient.
If you are a resident in the UK, you should apply for your EHIC before travelling to other European Union Member States. A UK EHIC is usually valid for three to five years – but if you stop being a UK resident, you need to return your EHIC to the Department of Health immediately.
There is a short video explaining how to use the EHIC card in Spain and further information is available on the Healthcare in Spain website. You can give feedback on the video using our online survey.
If you are a UK state pensioner living in Spain and registered for healthcare with an S1, the UK is responsible for issuing your EHIC to use on a temporary stay in the UK and a third EU country. For more information, telephone the Overseas Healthcare Team on +44 191 218 1999.
The EHIC gives you access to medically necessary, state-provided healthcare during a temporary stay in Spain.
When you show your EHIC, you will receive treatment under the same conditions and at the same cost as people insured in Spain.
Be aware that each country’s healthcare system is different. Services that cost you nothing at home might not be free in Spain (for example, prescriptions).
The EHIC is not an alternative to travel insurance. It does not cover any private healthcare or costs such as a return flight to your home country or lost/stolen property.
From 1 July 2014 you will no longer be able to apply for a reimbursement for copayments made when using your EHIC. The NHS Choices website has more information.

From here
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthcare-in-spain


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Blanco53 said:


> In addition, I think there is now a degree of pragmatism at the Oficina de Extranjeros. They found that a number of people applying for Residencia canceled their private health insurance shortly after obtaining their card. After all the production of an EHIC will mean that the Spanish Healthcare will be reimbursed, and at the end of the day that is all the Residencia is.......proving that the holder will not be a financial burden on the State during their stay.


Firstly,how would the Oficina de Extranjeros know that someone had cancelled private health insurance shortly after obtaining a card? 

Secondly, it is not possible to cancel private health insurance shortly after obtaining the card. When you take out a policy you are committed to paying the premiums for a full year, and must give two months' notice, in writing, prior to the annual renewal date in order to be able to cancel.

Thirdly, there have been instances when an individual who has been in Spain for quite some time has attempted to use their EHIC card over a period of time exceeding 90 days - their card has been refused at a hospital or health centre as the staff have twigged that they are not abiding by the rules.

If your system is reliant upon one individual "contact" at your local Oficina de Extranjeros, then it is obvious that this is an exceptional circumstance. What would happen if one of your clients turned up at the office and had to deal with another member of staff, or anyone else reading this thread went along to their local Oficina de Extranjeros clutching their EHIC and EX18 form, confidently expecting to be able to register, do you think?


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

xabiachica said:


> As an EU citizen registering in Spain you complete one A4 form, provide the documentation proving that you can support yourself in Spain & are covered for healthcare in Spain.
> 
> In the UK, as an EU citizen registering there, you would have to complete an *85 page application form*, provide the documentation proving that you can support yourself & are covered for healthcare.


I have always thought that those from the EU, for example a Spaniard of any age, who have gone to live in the UK, had automatic access to the NHS on providing proof of address. 

The application form for those EU foreigners living in the UK has only been mentioned, to my knowledge, since Brexit. I heard on a UK radio station that many of them who have been living in the UK for many, many years are now completing them.

I thought that access to the UK NHS was residence based. Here, as we know, it is contribution based.

Does that mean that the UK has been lax in enforcing the 3 month residence rule ? I have tried to google this - but there are only explanations for us living here


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Allie-P said:


> I have always thought that those from the EU, for example a Spaniard of any age, who have gone to live in the UK, had automatic access to the NHS on providing proof of address.
> 
> The application form for those EU foreigners living in the UK has only been mentioned, to my knowledge, since Brexit. I heard on a UK radio station that many of them who have been living in the UK for many, many years are now completing them.
> 
> ...


I agree, I had heard nothing about residency documentation for EU nationals living in the UK until after the referendum vote.

The UK Government website advises EU nationals that they do not need a residency certificate (probably because they didn't want to devote resources and money to processing applications for them), but EU nationals do have the right to apply for one if they want to be able to prove their residency status.

https://www.gov.uk/eea-registration-certificate/apply

The 85 page form referred to earlier is for EU citizens wanting to apply for permanent residency status after they have lived in the UK for a minimum of 5 years (in contrast to us in Spain simply needing to complete the single page EX18 form and tick the "permanente" box!).


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

Reading the guidance notes relating to a UK residency certificate (the one to register as a resident within 90 days), no wonder people didn't bother applying, especially when the Government told them they didn't actually need one. What a contrast with the simple EX18 form, and they charge a fee of 65 pounds for the application compared to the €10..40 we pay here.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/601625/EEA_QP_-03-17.pdf


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> *Visitors to Spain*
> 
> The UK European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) is valid for holidaymakers and temporary visitors who need to use the state health system while in another EU country. If you are not normally a resident of the UK, and therefore do not have entitlement to a UK-issued EHIC, the Spanish authorities may decide to treat you as a private patient.
> If you are a resident in the UK, you should apply for your EHIC before travelling to other European Union Member States. A UK EHIC is usually valid for three to five years – but if you stop being a UK resident, you need to return your EHIC to the Department of Health immediately.
> ...





Lynn R said:


> Firstly,how would the Oficina de Extranjeros know that someone had cancelled private health insurance shortly after obtaining a card?
> 
> Secondly, it is not possible to cancel private health insurance shortly after obtaining the card. When you take out a policy you are committed to paying the premiums for a full year, and must give two months' notice, in writing, prior to the annual renewal date in order to be able to cancel.
> 
> ...



So everyone on here is wrong, the official advice from the Spanish government, the U.K. Government and the EU is wrong but you are giving out correct advice to people coming on here looking for answers based on the fact that your local office does it totally different every other office in Spain! 





Blanco53 said:


> I am sorry you found my response aggressive. It was probably borne out of frustration of someone who will not accept that they are providing misinformation, and therefore misleading folk who come on here for advice.
> 
> !!


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

Lynn R said:


> I agree, I had heard nothing about residency documentation for EU nationals living in the UK until after the referendum vote.
> 
> The UK Government website advises EU nationals that they do not need a residency certificate (probably because they didn't want to devote resources and money to processing applications for them), but EU nationals do have the right to apply for one if they want to be able to prove their residency status.
> 
> ...


Yes, confusing isn't it.

I hope somebody, on here, can clarify what exactly happens when an EU national goes to live in the UK. If they are entitled to free NHS treatment, anyway - it is of no advantage to apply for residence. Pensioners are advised to do it here - because without residencia ; there is no health card.

I am sure that the residence form in the UK, also, states that they need healthcare cover ( why ?? When they are entitled to immediate access to the NHS)......and proof of sufficient resources.

It is all very, very confusing....and....lots of UK citizens automatically assume that we are all treated free in Spain !!


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Megsmum said:


> So everyone on here is wrong, the official advice from the Spanish government, the U.K. Government and the EU is wrong but you are giving out correct advice to people coming on here looking for answers based on the fact that your local office does it totally different every other office in Spain!


??Confused??

I actually agree with @Pesky Wesky and @Lynn R

The EHIC is ONLY for temporary stays and can NOT, therefore, be used as proof of health care for residency in Spain.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

I think Blanco is arguing that his clients are not permanent residents in Spain and therefore can use the EHIC, but the fact is that after 90 days you are considered a Spanish resident,. By registering on the EU citizen register and by obtaining that certificate you are indeed saying that you don't reside in the UK and therefore cannot use the EHIC. Anyway it's quite clear what the Spanish authorities expect from you.
Here is an extract of the requirements for obtaining that certificate (that is not residency) from the Spanish government website 


> *REQUISITOS*
> 
> Todo ciudadano de un Estado miembro de la Unión Europea o de otro Estado parte en el Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo tiene derecho de residencia en el territorio del Estado español por un periodo superior a tres meses si:
> 
> ...


I put the red ink, but the bold is from them

How that fits in with retired people I don't know


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

snikpoh said:


> ??Confused??
> 
> I actually agree with @Pesky Wesky and @Lynn R
> 
> The EHIC is ONLY for temporary stays and can NOT, therefore, be used as proof of health care for residency in Spain.


So does Megsmum.......

I think she felt that she was :deadhorse:


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

snikpoh said:


> ??Confused??
> 
> I actually agree with @Pesky Wesky and @Lynn R
> 
> The EHIC is ONLY for temporary stays and can NOT, therefore, be used as proof of health care for residency in Spain.



Yes that's what I'm saying. i am accused of giving out wrong information 

Yep it's certainly like FLOGGING a dead horse


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## Phil Squares (Jan 13, 2017)

After sitting back and watching the festivities, I thought I would jump in and clarify things or try to. 

1) I am an Republic of Ireland national, married to an American wife. We are moving to Valencia but just went through the process of registering as a Spanish Resident in Madrid with the help of an immigration there. I can not speak for any other location other than Valencia and Madrid, but I can assure you the EHIC, travel insurance or health insurance issued by a company outside of Spain will not fly in those two locations. In fact, a Spanish based company that issues a policy with a payment in excess of 5 Euros won't fly either! But, it's a small cost to bear. We have a policy with Sanitas with no excess, I'm 65 my wife is 55 and the cost is just over 260/month including dental, optical and prescription cover. Not bad, I think. Try getting a policy for double that amount in the US!!!

Someone asked about what happens to a UK citizen who lives in Spain who goes back for medical treatment. Here is the document you want. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...1/Overseas_visitor_hospital_charging_accs.pdf In fact, I will save you the pleasure of reading the entire document just go to Page 87, section 9.57. Very clear. 

In addition, someone asked about EU citizens who go to the UK and what happens to them. First of all, after butting heads with the Home Office regarding PR status for my children (all born in the US) I am very familiar with that. First of all, what the rules say and what the Home Office interprets them as are very, very different. Legally, if you are in work, looking for work, incapacitated and verified you do NOT need medical insurance. If you are a student, of independent means, you DO need insurance. If someone wants to be a law abiding citizen, when they register for their resident permit, which is 7 times the cost of Spain and takes a minimum of 6 months, you will have to provide the insurance or if you are working you supply that information. 

Anyhow, just trying to help out.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

So back to my question, who has a link to what comes first - padron or residency certificate (EX18)?


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

People are free to believe who they choose.

As a professional that works in this area, I know how the system works from a practical perspective rather the theory from reading articles and then lending an interpretation to them.

Obtaining a Certificado de Residencia in its own does not mean that you are permanently resident in Spain. That is why my "snowbird" clients can return to the UK and enjoy the same NHS benefits as they always have.

For the benefit of Megsmum I will type this again.

*Obtaining a Certificado de Residencia on its own does not mean that you are permanently resident in Spain*
and once more
*Obtaining a Certificado de Residencia on its own does not mean that you are permanently resident in Spain*

The certificate shows that the individual has demonstrated that they have the means to live in Spain for 3 months or more without becoming a drain on the state.

Now if an individual decides that they want to live in Spain full time a different set of circumstances apply. By applying for an S1 he or she has given notice that they are availing themselves of the Spanish Health Service. Also submitting an application to HMRC for relief at source from UK income tax clearly shows an intent to change residential status.

However, I will stress again that a Certificado de Residencia on its own does not mean that you are permanently resident in Spain. It enables those who own or rent a property in Spain who like to spend more than 3 months living in Spain (but less than 183 days), without falling foul of the law. My typical "snowbird" client.

From talking to other professionals it is now becoming increasingly common for Oficina de Extranjeros around the country to accept EHIC for this purpose.

I have helped process over 40 applications so far this year without a problem. My "snowbirds" are still using the NHS when they return to the UK, not as Freeloaders but using a service that they are still F*ULLY ENTITLED *to use.

However for readers of this thread, you can take the advice of a professional currently active in this field, or rely on the views of well-meaning amateurs. T*HE CHOICE IS YOURS!!!*

For me, my work here is done....Adiós!!!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Since when has doing routine clerical work and helping people unable to do it for themselves to fill in forms been a 'profession'?

And to think I did it all by myself without paying anyone a cent.


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Blanco53 said:


> People are free to believe who they choose.
> 
> As a professional that works in this area, I know how the system works from a practical perspective rather the theory from reading articles and then lending an interpretation to them.
> 
> ...



Please don't treat me like I am an idiot. I need no lessons for someone who is not an official in the Spanish or British government, but dealing with one person in one office somewhere in Spain. Everyone has questioned you on how the EHIC is valid, you have been given endless examples of official websites clearly both in Spanish and English, showing that the EHIC is not suitable for residency papers 

To clarify as you seem incapable of actually listening 

If someone is on holiday here they are obviously entitled to NHS care when they return home

If you have a residency card you are deemed residents in Spain, and are entitled to stay here as long as you like PROVIDING You have

Proof of income and Healthcare 

The EHIC is NOT according to every official site not deemed sufficient for healthcare with regards to residency. The EHIC covers you for emergencies only, no more no less

If you are resident in Spain, and are living here permanently but return to the U.K. For treatment you are freeloading off the NHS unless you fulfill the criteria laid out in a previous link to an official UK website. 

Please can I have the details of your local office as I would like to pass this onto mine and others, obviously really stupid lawyers and Gestor's who, like most people on here, in the U.K. Government and in the Spanish government have stated that the EHIC can not be used to gain residency in Spain but is for holidays only, which clearly your clients are - they are on holiday - they may be here longer than three months but they're not really resident, they are holidaymakers. To tell people coming on here looking for advice on healthcare that the EHIC is "generally" accepted to gain residency is wrong. Where does it say that the EHIC is valid for residency regardless of how long you are here for. 

Can you please answer the question regarding how, the Spanish officials know expats are canceling their private healthcare and how you can cancel a private healthcare plan after a few months with no loss of money.


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

Megsmum said:


> Please don't treat me like I am an idiot.


There is an easy solution to that....stop behaving like one. Perhaps I do you a disservice and English is not your first language and hence why you struggle to understand some basic concepts





Megsmum said:


> If you have a residency card you are deemed residents (sic) in Spain, and are entitled to stay here as long as you like PROVIDING You have
> 
> Proof of income and Healthcare


*FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME THAT IS WRONG* Under Royal Decree 240/07 all EU citizens planning to reside in Spain for more than 3 months need to register in person at the Oficina de Extranjeros. The successful applicant will then be issued a credit card size Residence Certificate stating your name, address, nationality, NIE number (Número de Identificación Extranjero) and date of registration.

So someone who comes to Spain for the winter....one of my "snowbirds" and stays 5 months they are not deemed to be resident in Spain by anyone inside the UK. 

As a result, they can use the NHS when they return to the UK, not as Freeloaders but can use a service that they are still FULLY ENTITLED to use.

They have a Residents Card because they need to comply with Royal Decree 240/07, *and live LEGALLY IN SPAIN * having demonstrated that they have the means to do so without becoming a drain on the state.



Megsmum said:


> The EHIC is NOT according to every official site not deemed sufficient for healthcare with regards to residency.


I have successfully processed over 40 applications so far this year without a problem. I am now told by other professionals working in this area that there are well over 30 offices all over Spain that will accept EHIC.



So there we have it, trust Megsmum who doesn't appear to undersatnd the provisions of 240/07, or someone who has successfully processed over 40 applications so far this year without a problem. *THE CHOICE IS YOURS!*

I am now really bored of keep on having to explain the obvious to someone who refuses to accept it....... so this really is Adiós!!!


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## Megsmum (Sep 9, 2012)

Blanco53 said:


> There is an easy solution to that....stop behaving like one. Perhaps I do you a disservice and English is not your first language and hence why you struggle to understand some basic concepts
> 
> 
> 
> ...



:deadhorse:

Anybody else here accept that the EHIC is valid for residency cards obviously I'm an idiot. As is my lawyer, my local national police office, government web sites and all in sundry say no, However I bow to the greater knowledge of a trained filling out forms professional - all 40 of them- who knows far more than anyone else in Spain.... the fact that her "Snowbirds" pay, would have no bearing on the advice that she gives 

Not so good at actually answering question, but very good at being rude. You have been aggressive and rude on this thread, you were rude to Baldi on another.:bored:

Name those offices, the
List can then go in the sticky thread to do with residencia


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Blanco53 said:


> There is an easy solution to that....stop behaving like one. Perhaps I do you a disservice and English is not your first language and hence why you struggle to understand some basic concepts
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are wrong and you're also rude with it.
You cannot legally be registered as living in Spain and and use the EHIC. You cannot legally use the EHIC for anything other than an emergency and you can only use it if your place of residence is the UK. If you advise your clients that they can, you are not advising them correctly. If they live legally in Spain - your words - then they cannot legally use this card.
The choice is yours


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## Blanco53 (Mar 6, 2017)

Pesky Wesky said:


> You are wrong and you're also rude with it.
> You cannot legally be registered as living in Spain and and use the EHIC. You cannot legally use the EHIC for anything other than an emergency and you can only use it if your place of residence is the UK. If you advise your clients that they can, you are not advising them correctly. If they live legally in Spain - your words - then they cannot legally use this card.
> The choice is yours


Another person who has limited powers of comprehension!

Most of my clients live in Spain for usually for up to 6 months. They are not permanently resident in Spain, and their place of residence is the UK. Consequently, they *CAN QUITE LEGALLY USE THE EHIC* in Spain if the need arises.

If helps your limited powers of understanding think as these people as being on an extended holiday. However, in order to comply with 240/07 they need Residencia. *It DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY ARE SPANISH RESIDENTS!!!!*

The DWP have agreed this isn't a problem, and a number of Oficina de Extranjeros also don't see this as a problem.

Responding to this nonsense I am now appearing to look like Theresa May.....However *this time Adiós means Adiós*


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

This is going round & round & is nothing to do with the original question.

Some extranjerías might well be accepting the EHIC. The issue will come when the UK refuses to pay up & sends a bill to the card holder because as far as the UK is concerned, they are no longer resident in the UK, or when Spain refuses to accept it makes the card holder pay, because the holder is resident in Spain.

Both situations have been well reported as happening.

The EHIC is for holidays.

That's the end of the discussion

:closed_2:


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