# Portugal V Britian .. which is best ???????



## Deancaz

Just out of interest would like to know the opinion of the expat communtity now living in portugal, also the people who have tried it and returned home, and the portuguese themselves who either live there or in britain,,, of there opinion which is the best, if you could give reasons that would be wonderful, 
Lets get voting
Its a RONALDO for portugal !!
its a Rooney for britain. !!


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## MrB

Deancaz said:


> Just out of interest would like to know the opinion of the expat communtity now living in portugal, also the people who have tried it and returned home, and the portuguese themselves who either live there or in britain,,, of there opinion which is the best, if you could give reasons that would be wonderful,
> Lets get voting
> Its a RONALDO for portugal !!
> its a Rooney for britain. !!


Preface: I haven't lived in Pt yet 

House running Costs: I have checked the detailed running costs of 2 houses in Pt (rates, heating, insurance etc), and they are very similar to the UK
Supermarkets/food: same costs as the UK
Cars: much more expensive (33%) in Pt
Housing: quite similar to the UK, but some lower cost in Pt if you look in the country
House buying and selling costs: much higher in Pt means it's difficult to make a profit on your house
Health care: haven't used it in Pt, but my impression is the UK is better
taxes: opportunity for retirees to get low tax rates in Pt. No IHT
Weather: no contest
Outdoor activites: no contest, eg golf and horse riding in Pt
People: may be a bit nicer on the surface in Pt
Language: well, it might be useful in Brazil 
Risk factors: prices keep going up in Pt, and it may leave the Euro, meaning your house value will drop in eg £ or $ terms.

summary: it all depends on your time of life and needs. And being aware of at least all the above factors.

For retirees, i vote .....

Portugal!


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## siobhanwf

*PORTUGAL*    everytime

*Health care* is on the ball and you are seen MUCH quicker than in the UK. I have had to use it twice for serious emergencies (I have a kidney transplant!)

*House running costs* on the whole are CHEAPER than the UK especially in the winter. Solar heating provides all our hot water throough even the winter months :clap2:

*SUPERMARKET shopping* I find that I spend much less than I would in the UK. B

*EATING OUT* we can have a really good meal for about 20 euros - same in the UK would cost 40 pounds  Friends had a meal last night for 35 euros for 4!!! incl lots of beer and wine

*FUEL* has risen over the past five years....but where has it not (apart from Dubai where my son still pays 8 euro cents per litre!!

*Getting work done* plumber charges 10 euros and hour general handyman 5-7 euros an hour, my house help says I pay her too much at 5 euros and hour!!!

These are however rates in the Silver Coast area NOT Algarve

*RATES* when they need to bee paid (we have the first 8 years FREE!!) will be 425 euros  a heck of a lot cheaper than the 2000 a year I wa paying in the UK

*HOUSE PRICES* again I can only speak for the Silver Coast prices ahve remained quiet static here. You can still buy a new build good size 3 bed 2 bath for 150,000.

In January this year friends bought a 5 bed with 4 acres of land for 185,000 near Caldas da Rainha


We have lived here now for 5 years and ahve no intention of returning to the UK


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## Deancaz

MrB said:


> Preface: I haven't lived in Pt yet
> House running Costs: I have checked the detailed running costs of 2 houses in Pt (rates, heating, insurance etc), and they are very similar to the UK
> Supermarkets/food: same costs as the UK
> Cars: much more expensive (33%) in Pt
> Housing: quite similar to the UK, but some lower cost in Pt if you look in the country
> House buying and selling costs: much higher in Pt means it's difficult to make a profit on your house
> Health care: haven't used it in Pt, but my impression is the UK is better
> taxes: opportunity for retirees to get low tax rates in Pt. No IHT
> Weather: no contest
> Outdoor activites: no contest, eg golf and horse riding in Pt
> People: may be a bit nicer on the surface in Pt
> Language: well, it might be useful in Brazil
> Risk factors: prices keep going up in Pt, and it may leave the Euro, meaning your house value will drop in eg £ or $ terms.
> 
> summary: it all depends on your time of life and needs. And being aware of at least all the above factors.
> 
> For retirees, i vote .....
> 
> Portugal!


Thankyou for taking the time to write all that down. all this information is invaluable
thanks again.


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## Deancaz

siobhanwf said:


> *PORTUGAL*    everytime
> 
> *Health care* is on the ball and you are seen MUCH quicker than in the UK. I have had to use it twice for serious emergencies (I have a kidney transplant!)
> 
> *House running costs* on the whole are CHEAPER than the UK especially in the winter. Solar heating provides all our hot water throough even the winter months :clap2:
> 
> *SUPERMARKET shopping* I find that I spend much less than I would in the UK. B
> 
> *EATING OUT* we can have a really good meal for about 20 euros - same in the UK would cost 40 pounds  Friends had a meal last night for 35 euros for 4!!! incl lots of beer and wine
> 
> *FUEL* has risen over the past five years....but where has it not (apart from Dubai where my son still pays 8 euro cents per litre!!
> 
> *Getting work done* plumber charges 10 euros and hour general handyman 5-7 euros an hour, my house help says I pay her too much at 5 euros and hour!!!
> 
> These are however rates in the Silver Coast area NOT Algarve
> 
> *RATES* when they need to bee paid (we have the first 8 years FREE!!) will be 425 euros  a heck of a lot cheaper than the 2000 a year I wa paying in the UK
> 
> *HOUSE PRICES* again I can only speak for the Silver Coast prices ahve remained quiet static here. You can still buy a new build good size 3 bed 2 bath for 150,000.
> 
> In January this year friends bought a 5 bed with 4 acres of land for 185,000 near Caldas da Rainha
> 
> 
> We have lived here now for 5 years and ahve no intention of returning to the UK


Thankyou also for the uselful info


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## MrB

*House running costs*

Just to clarify the detailed actual annual house running costs that I have analysed for 2 houses in the Algarve, they include:

Water, Sewage, gas, Elec, pool, alarm, insurance, council taxes, gardener, wood

These are 4 bed medium priced "villa" type houses, similar in size to ours in the UK. On averaging the 2, the total costs are similar to the UK (I cannot provide actual figures as they are private to the owners).

There seems to be a "myth" that running a house in Pt is less expensive that eg the UK. Eg live in the country, burn wood, grow your own veggies etc. 

But the individual items add up. And it isn't "cheap"


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## siobhanwf

*Water* _40pm average per month _(incl garden and pool top up UK 38GBP pm (I didn't have a pool in the UK!
*Sewage* - 0 we have a septic tank and haven't needed to have it empitied for almost 5 years cost if needed is _12 euros_ 
* gas* - _10 pm_ we use only for cooking and on average a bottle will last us for over a year 
*Electricity* 100 euros a month (includes running costs of a/c, jacuzzi and pool). 
*HOT WATER* courtesy of the sun with solar panels 
*pool* ,220 chemicals for the whole year (we look after it ourselves) 
*alarm* 25 euros (linked to the police station) basically same as UK
*insurance* 210 euros for the year , (incl earthquake cover and all risks (UK 680!!!)
*council taxes* at present 0... will be just over 400 in 3 years time
*gardener* 40 euros per month (UK 75 for less hours)
*Cleaning* 45 euros a week (in the Uk I was paying 90 pounds for the same thing!
*wood *100 euros per tonne
*car insurance* 400 fully comp incl breakdown cover for a 2011 1.9 yeti tdi. My son pays 650 in the UK for a 5 year old 1.9tdi Fabia (with full NCB)

Fuel 1.33 per litre (diesel) 1.41 petrol (in the UK the cost of a litre is the Swindon area is 134.9p (that is over 1.50 euros) and diesel is more!!!

We don't grow our own veggies. 

the above costs are NO myth but what actually comes out of our pocket.

These are also for a large 4 bed house with the same sq meterage I had in the UK.

But again as I have said before this is on the Silver Coast and not Algarve prices. 

We can still buy a bottle of Super Bock for 1 euro a bottle in a local 4* hotel and for the same in out local cafe 70cents!

I can get change from a 5 euro note for two coffees and two toasted chees and ham sandwiches. I would have to pay that for the sandwich alone in the UK

So our money DEFINITELY stretches much further here than in the UK


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## robc

I am with Siobhan on this one.................there are also the incidentals to consider, over and above the fixed or unavoidable costs. For example, we live in a remote area in the Cotswolds, both drive 4x4's, always keen to get the best possible prices so rang round the main dealers for labour rates.

Lexus are quoting £115 per hour plus VAT
Porsche are quoting £140 per hour plus VAT

So, rang a couple of volume main dealers (Ford & Vauxhall) and they were within a gnats chuff of £100 plus VAT.

Porsche at Leiria quoted 50 Euros per hour.

It will always be a subjective call, if lots of sunshine and warmer weather are your thing then I think you will be prepared to pay/sacrifice a little for that. If it is not then you won't.

Personally I/we cannot wait.

Rob


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## siobhanwf

robc said:


> I am with Siobhan on this one.................there are also the incidentals to consider, over and above the fixed or unavoidable costs. For example, we live in a remote area in the Cotswolds, both drive 4x4's, always keen to get the best possible prices so rang round the main dealers for labour rates.
> 
> Lexus are quoting £115 per hour plus VAT
> Porsche are quoting £140 per hour plus VAT
> 
> So, rang a couple of volume main dealers (Ford & Vauxhall) and they were within a gnats chuff of £100 plus VAT.
> 
> Porsche at Leiria quoted 50 Euros per hour.
> 
> It will always be a subjective call, if lots of sunshine and warmer weather are your thing then I think you will be prepared to pay/sacrifice a little for that. If it is not then you won't.
> 
> Personally I/we cannot wait.
> 
> Rob


The skoda/vw/audi/ main dealers in Caldas charge 35 euros.
For my Smart I use a local gargage at 28 euros and hour


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## robc

siobhanwf said:


> The skoda/vw/audi/ main dealers in Caldas charge 35 euros.
> For my Smart I use a local gargage at 28 euros and hour



Thanks Siobhan 

Rub it in why don't you 

I have to take the Porker into Porkland on Friday and it is going to be nastily expensive I fear.

Oh well................could be worse I guess.


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## MrB

siobhanwf said:


> *Water* _40pm average per month _(incl garden and pool top up UK 38GBP pm (I didn't have a pool in the UK!
> *Sewage* - 0 we have a septic tank and haven't needed to have it empitied for almost 5 years cost if needed is _12 euros_
> * gas* - _10 pm_ we use only for cooking and on average a bottle will last us for over a year
> *Electricity* 100 euros a month (includes running costs of a/c, jacuzzi and pool).
> *HOT WATER* courtesy of the sun with solar panels
> *pool* ,220 chemicals for the whole year (we look after it ourselves)
> *alarm* 25 euros (linked to the police station) basically same as UK
> *insurance* 210 euros for the year , (incl earthquake cover and all risks (UK 680!!!)
> *council taxes* at present 0... will be just over 400 in 3 years time
> *gardener* 40 euros per month (UK 75 for less hours)
> *Cleaning* 45 euros a week (in the Uk I was paying 90 pounds for the same thing!
> *wood *100 euros per tonne
> *car insurance* 400 fully comp incl breakdown cover for a 2011 1.9 yeti tdi. My son pays 650 in the UK for a 5 year old 1.9tdi Fabia (with full NCB)
> 
> Fuel 1.33 per litre (diesel) 1.41 petrol (in the UK the cost of a litre is the Swindon area is 134.9p (that is over 1.50 euros) and diesel is more!!!
> 
> We don't grow our own veggies.
> 
> the above costs are NO myth but what actually comes out of our pocket.
> 
> These are also for a large 4 bed house with the same sq meterage I had in the UK.
> 
> But again as I have said before this is on the Silver Coast and not Algarve prices.
> 
> We can still buy a bottle of Super Bock for 1 euro a bottle in a local 4* hotel and for the same in out local cafe 70cents!
> 
> I can get change from a 5 euro note for two coffees and two toasted chees and ham sandwiches. I would have to pay that for the sandwich alone in the UK
> 
> So our money DEFINITELY stretches much further here than in the UK


Siobhan

This is great: I can now give you the average estimated cost of 3 houses upkeep, 2 of them in the Algarve, :ranger:

and it comes to ............

7880 euros

My Uk costs for a similar house are:
8464 euros

So Pt is indeed 7% cheaper! 

But then in the UK I don't have a pool, gardener or cleaner


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## siobhanwf

MrB said:


> Siobhan
> 
> This is great: I can now give you the average estimated cost of 3 houses upkeep, 2 of them in the Algarve, :ranger:
> 
> and it comes to ............
> 
> 7880 euros
> 
> My Uk costs for a similar house are:
> 8464 euros
> 
> So Pt is indeed 7% cheaper!
> 
> But then in the UK I don't have a pool, gardener or cleaner




You are doing well :clap2:

My rates alone for my home in the UK were 2108 pa. And that was with a disability allowance

Electricity, gas and water were just under 3000 and that was 3 years ago


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## eastern wiseguy

Hi All. I am new to this thread. Plan A was to move with my American wife back to the USA(I am a Brit)but the cost of healthcare is rapidly strangling that idea at birth. What is the deal with Portugal and healthcare for retirees?
Thanks all

Bill


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## siobhanwf

eastern wiseguy said:


> Hi All. I am new to this thread. Plan A was to move with my American wife back to the USA(I am a Brit)but the cost of healthcare is rapidly strangling that idea at birth. What is the deal with Portugal and healthcare for retirees?
> Thanks all
> 
> Bill



Hi there and :welcome:to the forum

You might like to have a read of the following thread


http://www.expatforum.com/expats/po...tugal/72081-im-confused-about-healthcare.html


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## Emmis

I think healthcare is probably better in the Algarve than in Lisbon, where you have to have private health insurance. 

This is an article from The Guardian, just to keep things balanced. (hope I'm allowed to post newspaper articles - sorry if this isn't allowed!)

Tales from Portugal's debt crisis | World news | The Guardian

and

'Portugal's market has died. Banks aren't lending. Everything is blocked' | World news | guardian.co.uk


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## siobhanwf

All the major teaching hospitals are in Lisbon and Coimbra. So how does that make health care in the Algarve better?

The health system is the same in Lisbon as it is all over Portugal.
You do NOT need to have private health insurance unless you choose to do so.


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## Emmis

siobhanwf said:


> All the major teaching hospitals are in Lisbon and Coimbra. So how does that make health care in the Algarve better?
> 
> The health system is the same in Lisbon as it is all over Portugal.
> You do NOT need to have private health insurance unless you choose to do so.


Hi Siobhan,

I hugely apologise for giving the wrong impression here. I have to be honest and admit to speaking through other people's recommendations, as I personally have been advised by people to have private health insurance. I've only been to the doctors once and had to pay. The service was fine. It took over an hour to see the doctor (even though we had made an appointment) but probably that could be said for any country under certain circumstances.

I've been told by both foreign and local people to take out private healthcare insurance, but that is because of some scary stories such as the one in the newspaper article, where the hospital could not administer anesthesia because the hospital itself couldn't afford it - not because the patient couldn't afford it. Normally I would take that as simply a scare story, rather than a scary story, but I know the person who recounted the story.

However, again, I'm sure many scary (and scare!) stories could be told of hospitals in the UK, the US and anywhere.

I think I could just be hearing things from a negative perspective, both from Portuguese and foreign mouths. That happens everywhere. However, I do think it is fair to give people the option to see things as they potentially could be - for better or worse. 

However, saying all of this, I really do not know the whole situation. I've only been here for 2 months so am learning as I go. I'm only speaking, as I said, from recommendations that others have given me. 

Apologies again.


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## siobhanwf

Emmis said:


> Hi Siobhan,
> 
> I hugely apologise for giving the wrong impression here. I have to be honest and admit to speaking through other people's recommendations, as I personally have been advised by people to have private health insurance. I've only been to the doctors once and had to pay. The service was fine. It took over an hour to see the doctor (even though we had made an appointment) but probably that could be said for any country under certain circumstances.
> 
> I've been told by both foreign and local people to take out private healthcare insurance, but that is because of some scary stories such as the one in the newspaper article, where the hospital could not administer anesthesia because the hospital itself couldn't afford it - not because the patient couldn't afford it. Normally I would take that as simply a scare story, rather than a scary story, but I know the person who recounted the story.
> 
> However, again, I'm sure many scary (and scare!) stories could be told of hospitals in the UK, the US and anywhere.
> 
> I think I could just be hearing things from a negative perspective, both from Portuguese and foreign mouths. That happens everywhere. However, I do think it is fair to give people the option to see things as they potentially could be - for better or worse.
> 
> However, saying all of this, I really do not know the whole situation. I've only been here for 2 months so am learning as I go. I'm only speaking, as I said, from recommendations that others have given me.
> 
> Apologies again.



Hi Emmis.

Apologies not required 

I do however speak from personal experience.

In 1997 I received a kidney transplant in the UK and am doing really really well (or the kidney is ) I had an episode of an infection 3 years ago 2008 ending up in a 12 day stay in hospital. I couldn't fault the treatment (or the cleanliness of the hospital. The only whinge I had was I had salmon for most meals!! and baked apple  ) The state GP had me in hospital bed within 8 hours. 

In 2010 I had another emergency stay in hospital this tine requiring two cardiac stents to be fitted. Saw the doctor at 5pm(Monday) in a hospital bed by midnight and the stents fitted after a day of testing on the Wednesday.

I do during the winter months see a GP privatle (my state GP is happy with this and encourages it) as with the non rejection drugs I take I have no immune system. Too many coughs and sneezes at the Centro de Sauge  

Twice a year I go to the University hospital at Coimbra to be seen the renal transplant clinic.
Here I wait no longer than I have to wait at the hospital in the UK. In fact my blood resultws take 24 hours to come back in the UK...in Coimbra 4 hours max!!

You can jump the queue here to see a specialist by just calling their surgery and making an appointment. Your GP might even suggest one for you 

Horror stopies abound in every country.


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## Fidgety

Hello,

New to the forum and after seeing this thread thought it may be a good place to post (lots of detailed info!)

When comparing the UK to PT, I was wondering about the following costs:
Vets Bills (and standard of care)
MOTs - Anything that is the PT equivalent?
Road Tax - Exists or not?
Telephone and Internet costs (landline and mobile)

And, finally,

If anybody out there keeps animals, from dogs to livestock, what are the general costs for food and things like straw, hay etc?

I know all these things don't ultimately define which location is best, but they do help decided the pressure on your purse and ultimately the quality of life.

P.S. All the previous info in this thread has been enormously helpful!


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## wink

From my viewpoint, being neither British or Portuguese, but having now lived in both countries, (UK 11yrs - PT 7months) I much prefer Portugal. The Portuguese are far more friendly and open-minded than the British and accept foreigners much more readily, the weather is also much better.


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## siobhanwf

Vets Bills (and standard of care)
MOTs - Anything that is the PT equivalent? *the only one that is expensive is the one to matriculate a foreign registered car (80 euros) *
Road Tax - Exists or not?
Telephone and Internet costs (landline and mobile) pay as you go is not cheap. Check out the sites of Vodafone, TMN and Optimus 

If anybody out there keeps animals, from dogs to livestock, what are the general costs for food and things like straw, hay etc? Vets cost are low in comparison with the UK. Vet insurance is available for dogs but like in the UK at a cost. Dog food can be bougt at Lidl or if you prefer a specific brand why not google it on google.pt to find out the exact cost. The cost of hay I will find out later today. Chicken food costs about 3 eurso a bag while a sack of dry food for sheep anything between 11 and 15 euros


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## Fidgety

Thanks Siobhan,
All the information is very, very helpful to me!


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## siobhanwf

OOHH forgot Road Tax does exist


depends on how old the car is and if it is a Portuguese (original) car.


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## Fidgety

Oh No!

Do you have a broad range or where I would look to find out?


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## siobhanwf

Our main car is a 2010 1.9 tdi skoda Yeti and the cost is 170 euros a year.
The Fabia (2005) we had 1.4tdi was 120 (before the laws changed in 2007 it was 34 euros!!.) waiting to see how much the 2001 Smart will cost once matriculated


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## siobhanwf

Fidgety said:


> Oh No!
> 
> Do you have a broad range or where I would look to find out?




Tabela Imposto Único Circulação (IUC) 2012 - Tabela Imposto Único de Circulação - Imposto Sobre Veículos e Imposto Único de Circulação


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## b7fry

We've had a house on the Algarve for 4 yrs, only visiting for holidays etc but have always found the cost of living lower than here in the u.k apart from the gas which is very expensive. We have gas central heating but have bought extra electric walll units to use instead. Have finally sold our house here in the u.k and furniture is currently on its way round the Bay of Biscay swopping a pond for a pool, scary times but apart from my 2 children being here who I will miss dreadfully am sure we will be doing the right thing.


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## ferragudofan

re house prices and bills... you may find one of my blog posts useful - comparison of various different household bills
How much does it cost? | Algarve Blog
hope it helps!


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