# Crime on the Costas



## andrewsgibson

Hello everybody,

We are thinking about moving to the south coast of Spain but I have to admit that articles like this one put me off:

! Murcia Today - Be Careful In Supermarkets, Thieves Are On The Prowl

What do forum members who live on the Costas (especially Murcia and the Costa Brava) think? Is pickpocketing and other petty theft common or is the article alarmist?

Your thoughts appreciated.


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## mrypg9

I don't live on the Costa Brava or Murcia but I'd merely say that I'm sure that thieves and pickpockets are out there waiting to prey on the unwary in Tescos Southend, Sainsburys Harrogate, Lidl in S****horpe and even Waitrose Weybridge.
If you allow fear of crime to influence your decisions then you wouldn't move anywhere and as I said there's crime all around you, to a greater or lesser degree. 
The fear is worse than the crime and often exaggerated.

P.S. I live on the CdS and our house was burgled, largely due to our stupidity in leaving the shutters up, the alarm non-activated and the keys in the back door.


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## buble

Nothing new there, it's been going on in Spain for years. My wife was driving home and didn't realise that she was being followed by two men. They grabbed her handbag and drove off. After viewing some mugshots at the Guadia Civil, the men were caught and held in jail pending trial. The mysterious thing about this is that somehow they escaped :confused2:
Some friends and their dog were gassed while asleep (hole cut in window, tube connected to gas cylinder passed through hole). The thieves spent some time searching the house for valuables. They even sat down and had a meal there!
Distraction robberies at supermarket car parks are quite common (letting your tyres down for example).
While driving, raw eggs are thrown at your car windscreen, windscreen washers and wiper blades smear the yolk into a white mess, you stop to clean it and they are into your car!
It is a sad fact that it does happen frequently, and is often blamed on Eastern Europeans.


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## xabiaxica

buble said:


> Nothing new there, it's been going on in Spain for years. My wife was driving home and didn't realise that she was being followed by two men. They grabbed her handbag and drove off. After viewing some mugshots at the Guadia Civil, the men were caught and held in jail pending trial. The mysterious thing about this is that somehow they escaped :confused2:
> Some friends and their dog were gassed while asleep (hole cut in window, tube connected to gas cylinder passed through hole). The thieves spent some time searching the house for valuables. They even sat down and had a meal there!
> Distraction robberies at supermarket car parks are quite common (letting your tyres down for example).
> While driving, raw eggs are thrown at your car windscreen, windscreen washers and wiper blades smear the yolk into a white mess, you stop to clean it and they are into your car!
> It is a sad fact that it does happen frequently, and is often blamed on Eastern Europeans.


yes these things happen - & are on the increase due to unemployment & _la crisis

_but common? 

my husband had his wallet snatched 10 years ago 

someone nicked 500€ out of my bag a few weeks ago - in this case it was partly my own stupidity

I have read newspaper articles about serious crime incidents - but then I read them about many places in the world

I really don't believe that it's any better nor worse, on the whole, than pretty much anywhere else

just take normal precautions (unlike me the other other week )


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## andrewsgibson

Thanks everybody. Does anybody know if these incidents are as common on the north coast as in the south?


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## mrypg9

buble said:


> Nothing new there, it's been going on in Spain for years. My wife was driving home and didn't realise that she was being followed by two men. They grabbed her handbag and drove off. After viewing some mugshots at the Guadia Civil, the men were caught and held in jail pending trial. The mysterious thing about this is that somehow they escaped :confused2:
> Some friends and their dog were gassed while asleep (hole cut in window, tube connected to gas cylinder passed through hole). The thieves spent some time searching the house for valuables. They even sat down and had a meal there!
> Distraction robberies at supermarket car parks are quite common (letting your tyres down for example).
> While driving, raw eggs are thrown at your car windscreen, windscreen washers and wiper blades smear the yolk into a white mess, you stop to clean it and they are into your car!
> It is a sad fact that it does happen frequently, and is often blamed on Eastern Europeans.


Ahh...the 'gassing' myth...


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## mrypg9

andrewsgibson said:


> Thanks everybody. Does anybody know if these incidents are as common on the north coast as in the south?


Crime is everywhere.
If you are the only person in your tiny village who is robbed then it will have a big impact on you, even if it's the only crime in the village for fifty years.
You can't live your life constantly looking over your shoulder. You take sensible precautions, wherever you are.


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## LDN2ESP

Just to level the playing field here, I think on average somebody gets murdered on my side of London each week. I can honestly say that what I've read here does not concern me at all. You just have to be careful, wherever you are, and take reasonable precautions.


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## mrypg9

Yes, that's how it is. Any one of us could any day be robbed, raped, murdered, involved in a road traffic accident, get caught up in a terrorist attack, be struck by lightning..
Life is for living to the full, not for worrying about what dreadful things _might_ happen to you.


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## buble

mrypg9 said:


> Ahh...the 'gassing' myth...


Not a myth. The people who were gassed are very close friends. It happened!


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## Justina

*Gas myth*



buble said:


> Not a myth. The people who were gassed are very close friends. It happened!


Didn't the dog hear anything suspicious? Mine would wake the dead.


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## buble

Justina said:


> Didn't the dog hear anything suspicious? Mine would wake the dead.


Nope!


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## mrypg9

buble said:


> Nope!


A leading member of the Royal College of Anaesthetists debunked that myth very comprehensively. But even for a non-technical person, questions arise.
Like: what, exactly is this mysterious gas? Has any name been put to it? How is this gas administered and how is the exact amount gauged - after all, isn't it strange that no-one has died from an overdose of this 'gas'? 
How is this as brought to the house? In large canisters? After all, you'd need a lot of gas or a very toxic one to overcome adults and dogs. Doors and windows would have to be closed and the thieves themselves would need protective masks.
I have read no reports of any blood analysis on 'victims' of this form of crime.
I have friends, very good friends, who make up stories. I don't know your friends and I'm sure they are very nice people but I just don't believe these 'gassing' stories. Sometimes people just can't understand how they could have slept through a burglary, feel a little daft about it and persuade themselves that they have been gassed.


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## Simon22

mrypg9 said:


> Sometimes people just can't understand how they could have slept through a burglary, feel a little daft about it and persuade themselves that they have been gassed.


I must admit I am skeptical, there seems too many easier ways to do this than gassing people.


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## baldilocks

andrewsgibson said:


> ! Murcia Today - Be Careful In Supermarkets, Thieves Are On The Prowl


Ah the English Language Press - half a step removed from the likes of the Sun and the Mirror. A sensationalist story sells copy.

In fact almost every instance quoted is a story of stupidity. Act sensibly and responsibly and your chances of getting done fall to almost nil.


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## buble

mrypg9 said:


> A leading member of the Royal College of Anaesthetists debunked that myth very comprehensively. But even for a non-technical person, questions arise.
> Like: what, exactly is this mysterious gas? Has any name been put to it? How is this gas administered and how is the exact amount gauged - after all, isn't it strange that no-one has died from an overdose of this 'gas'?
> How is this as brought to the house? In large canisters? After all, you'd need a lot of gas or a very toxic one to overcome adults and dogs. Doors and windows would have to be closed and the thieves themselves would need protective masks.
> I have read no reports of any blood analysis on 'victims' of this form of crime.
> I have friends, very good friends, who make up stories. I don't know your friends and I'm sure they are very nice people but I just don't believe these 'gassing' stories. Sometimes people just can't understand how they could have slept through a burglary, feel a little daft about it and persuade themselves that they have been gassed.


That's your thoughts on the subject, where would you read the blood analysis, in the papers? I don't think so, patient confidentiality & all that. The burglars may well have worn gas masks initially, and then opened the doors to ventilate the rooms, before vandalising the place, they spent quite a bit of time there.
Gas is compressed into cylinders at very high pressures and when released, can take up a lot of space. The aqualung cylinders used by divers these days contain 75 cubic feet of gas (old money) not very big at all. The ratio of gas to air required to knock someone out is not within my field of expertise, maybe it is within yours 
Anyway the Guardia and the doctor believed them, as do the rest of our friends.


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## Simon22

buble said:


> That's your thoughts on the subject, where would you read the blood analysis, in the papers? I don't think so, patient confidentiality & all that. The burglars may well have worn gas masks initially, and then opened the doors to ventilate the rooms, before vandalising the place, they spent quite a bit of time there.
> Gas is compressed into cylinders at very high pressures and when released, can take up a lot of space. The aqualung cylinders used by divers these days contain 75 cubic feet of gas (old money) not very big at all. The ratio of gas to air required to knock someone out is not within my field of expertise, maybe it is within yours
> Anyway the Guardia and the doctor believed them, as do the rest of our friends.


Which gas was used?


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## jimenato

buble said:


> That's your thoughts on the subject, where would you read the blood analysis, in the papers? I don't think so, patient confidentiality & all that. The burglars may well have worn gas masks initially, and then opened the doors to ventilate the rooms, before vandalising the place, they spent quite a bit of time there.
> Gas is compressed into cylinders at very high pressures and when released, can take up a lot of space. The aqualung cylinders used by divers these days contain 75 cubic feet of gas (old money) not very big at all. The ratio of gas to air required to knock someone out is not within my field of expertise, maybe it is within yours
> Anyway the Guardia and the doctor believed them, as do the rest of our friends.


Stories like this have been around for decades.

They started I believe on French Wagons Lits and have migrated over the years to villas on the Italian, French and Spanish Rivieras and French aires where lorry drivers and mobile homes have been targeted. 

They are usually credited to eastern European gangs.

As far as I am aware (and I have searched in every way I know) there has never been one validated/documented/properly evidenced occurrence anywhere - not one.

There's lots of word of mouth evidence - including one from a member of my family who swore she had been gassed into unconsciousness in her mobile home in France (she hadn't) and a very few newspaper articles of dodgy reliability - and that's it.

I will remain very dubious about these stories until there is solid evidence - which if they were true there would be.


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## The Skipper

andrewsgibson said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> We are thinking about moving to the south coast of Spain but I have to admit that articles like this one put me off:
> 
> ! Murcia Today - Be Careful In Supermarkets, Thieves Are On The Prowl
> 
> What do forum members who live on the Costas (especially Murcia and the Costa Brava) think? Is pickpocketing and other petty theft common or is the article alarmist?
> 
> Your thoughts appreciated.


Criminals are always attracted to holiday areas by the rich pickings on offer. It happens in the UK just as much as in Spain. I lived for many years in Cornwall and crime always soared in July and August when tourism was at its peak. People let their hair down on holiday and, often under the influence of alcohol, are less careful than they might normally be, making life easier for thieves. They also tend to wear light clothes on a summer holiday (yes, even in England!) making a bulging wallet easy to spot when sticking out of the back pocket of a pair of shorts. I might add that our cottage in Cornwall was burgled twice and so far (touching wood as I speak) we have not been the victims of any crime during our seven years in Spain.


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## jimenato

I do know of a couple of people who were distraction robbed in supermarket car parks - one in Estepona and one in Palmones so it's worth being a bit careful. I always tried to keep a good lookout when loading the car and so on but it's very easy to let your guard slip.

Be careful but don't let it rule your life.


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## mrypg9

buble said:


> That's your thoughts on the subject, where would you read the blood analysis, in the papers? I don't think so, patient confidentiality & all that. The burglars may well have worn gas masks initially, and then opened the doors to ventilate the rooms, before vandalising the place, they spent quite a bit of time there.
> Gas is compressed into cylinders at very high pressures and when released, can take up a lot of space. The aqualung cylinders used by divers these days contain 75 cubic feet of gas (old money) not very big at all. The ratio of gas to air required to knock someone out is not within my field of expertise, maybe it is within yours
> Anyway the Guardia and the doctor believed them, as do the rest of our friends.


Patient confidentiality has nothing to do with dealing with crime. You can read such analyses in the reports of trials in the press.
You have no solid evidence any more than I and nothing to go on apart from your friends who may like to relate good after dinner stories. 
You keep talking about 'gas'. What gas? Didn't the Guardia know what gas? Gas leaves traces, you know. Forensic specialists can easily discover what gas had been used. And from where is this gas obtained, I wonder? Carrefour? Mercadona? The supply of toxic gases is carefully controlled. Canisters don't just casually go missing without efforts being made to trace them.
If the doctor believed them, he would have told them what type of gas was used. If the police had really believed them, they would have launched a thorough investigation and found out what gas was used. Gassing people is a serious crime. I'm guessing the Guardia had a good laugh after they had agreed, yes, you were gassed, now go away and tell your friends but seemingly did nothing more about it.

I wouldn't normally bother about these urban myths but some need knocking on the head as they needlessly cause anxiety to some gullible people.


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## VFR

The normal story about this says that they put the gas in via the air-con which of course is impossible.


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## mrypg9

_*Statement on alleged gassing in motor vehicles Royal College of Anaethetists

Despite the increasing numbers of reports of people being gassed in motor-homes or commercial trucks in France, and the warning put out by the Foreign Office for travellers to be aware of this danger, this College remains of the view that this is a myth.

It is the view of the College that it would not be possible to render someone unconscious by blowing ether, chloroform or any of the currently used volatile anaesthetic agents, through the window of a motor-home without their knowledge, even if they were sleeping at the time. Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a relatively weak anaesthetic by modern standards and has a very irritant affect on the air passages, causing coughing and sometimes vomiting. It takes some time to reach unconsciousness, even if given by direct application to the face on a cloth, and the concentration needed by some sort of spray administered directly into a room would be enormous. The smell hangs around for days and would be obvious to anyone the next day. Even the more powerful modern volatile agents would need to be delivered in tankerloads of carrier gas by a large compressor. Potential agents, such as the one used by the Russians in the Moscow siege are few in number and difficult to obtain. Moreover, these drugs would be too expensive for the average thief to use.

The other important point to remember is that general anaesthetics are potentially very dangerous, which is why they are only administered in the UK by doctors who have undergone many years of postgraduate training in the subject and who remain with the unconscious patient throughout the anaesthetic. Unsupervised patients are likely to die from obstruction of the airway by their tongues falling back. In the Moscow seige approximately 20% of the people died, many probably from airway obstruction directly related to the agent used.

If there was a totally safe, odourless, potent, cheap anaesthetic agent available to thieves for this purpose it is likely the medical profession would know about it.*_


I'm no expert but these guys are.


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## baldilocks

The most reliable and most used agent for death by gassing (following the switch from coal gas to natural gas) is carbon monoxide derived from the exhaust of internal combustion engines. This is possibly the agent used where a motorhome was broken into since bringing another motor vehicle near would be less noticed and with the aid of tubing the vehicle could be a short distance away and the engine noise less noticeable.


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## buble

mrypg9 said:


> Patient confidentiality has nothing to do with dealing with crime. You can read such analyses in the reports of trials in the press.
> You have no solid evidence any more than I and nothing to go on apart from your friends who may like to relate good after dinner stories.
> You keep talking about 'gas'. What gas? Didn't the Guardia know what gas? Gas leaves traces, you know. Forensic specialists can easily discover what gas had been used. And from where is this gas obtained, I wonder? Carrefour? Mercadona? The supply of toxic gases is carefully controlled. Canisters don't just casually go missing without efforts being made to trace them.
> If the doctor believed them, he would have told them what type of gas was used. If the police had really believed them, they would have launched a thorough investigation and found out what gas was used. Gassing people is a serious crime. I'm guessing the Guardia had a good laugh after they had agreed, yes, you were gassed, now go away and tell your friends but seemingly did nothing more about it.
> 
> I wouldn't normally bother about these urban myths but some need knocking on the head as they needlessly cause anxiety to some gullible people.


Oh dear, I have upset you  Good Night.


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## mrypg9

baldilocks said:


> The most reliable and most used agent for death by gassing (following the switch from coal gas to natural gas) is carbon monoxide derived from the exhaust of internal combustion engines. This is possibly the agent used where a motorhome was broken into since bringing another motor vehicle near would be less noticed and with the aid of tubing the vehicle could be a short distance away and the engine noise less noticeable.


But are these thieves likely to know when to stop pumping and keep their crime to robbery and not murder? 
Carbon monoxide can be lethal and besides leaves traces in the bloodstream and on furniture, clothes etc. 

It seems that stories about home robberies using gas were featured in a report in the -guess what?? - Daily Mail.
They featured a story a couple of years back about a woman who claimed she had been gassed and robbed whilst sleeping next to her husband in a hotel room in Alicante or a similar resort. The additional spice to this story was that not only had several £oos been taken, in cash, but , the woman claimed, she had been raped.
Just coincidental, of course, that it occurred on the last night of the couple's holiday...when you usually have loads of cash lying about.
I posted this story when it appeared.
Well, she reported it to the police and got a crime ref no. for the insurance company.....


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## mrypg9

buble said:


> Oh dear, I have upset you  Good Night.


No, you haven't upset me at all. Few people are capable of doing that and you certainly aren't one of them.
I and others are merely debunking a myth that if left to stand as having a shred of credibility might, just might, cause unnecessary alarm and distress to vulnerable people. There are enough real threats to worry about without people seemingly getting high on their own self-belief, no gas needed


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## jimenato

baldilocks said:


> The most reliable and most used agent for death by gassing (following the switch from coal gas to natural gas) is carbon monoxide derived from the exhaust of internal combustion engines. This is possibly the agent used where a motorhome was broken into since bringing another motor vehicle near would be less noticed and with the aid of tubing the vehicle could be a short distance away and the engine noise less noticeable.


Anybody pumping carbon monoxide into an enclosed space would be incredibly lucky not to kill someone.


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## baldilocks

jimenato said:


> Anybody pumping carbon monoxide into an enclosed space would be incredibly lucky not to kill someone.


You know, I know and most people having been brought up in the days of town gas would probably know that plus a few who had considered using that method for suicide, but would these "thieves?"


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## Simon22

baldilocks said:


> The most reliable and most used agent for death by gassing (following the switch from coal gas to natural gas) is carbon monoxide derived from the exhaust of internal combustion engines. This is possibly the agent used where a motorhome was broken into since bringing another motor vehicle near would be less noticed and with the aid of tubing the vehicle could be a short distance away and the engine noise less noticeable.


As mrypg9 stated there is a fine line between unconscious and dead. Surely a criminal willing to risk this would just grab a knife or a gun and use that instead. It seems improbable that anyone willing to go to such extreme lengths cannot find a more direct method of subduing people. 

This is the result when gas was the attempted solution to a hostage situation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis


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## jimenato

buble said:


> ...
> Some friends and their dog were gassed while asleep (hole cut in window, tube connected to gas cylinder passed through hole). The thieves spent some time searching the house for valuables. They even sat down and had a meal there!
> ...


The things that strike me about this; just one window - so did the burglars know that they were sleeping in that room - that the dog was with them - and that no-one else was anywhere else in the house.

Hole cut in window - how without risking breaking it.

Taking a long time over ransacking the house and eating a meal - how long? And did they risk the occupants waking up while this was going on or leave the gas running and risk killing them?

Sorry buble, I realise you didn't expect a grilling and probably don't know the answers anyway, I'm showing why I'm so dubious about all of this - it just doesn't ring true.


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## Helenameva

Hate to say it, but I think this mysterious gas is a byproduct of bullsh*t.


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## oronero

baldilocks said:


> The most reliable and most used agent for death by gassing (following the switch from coal gas to natural gas) is carbon monoxide derived from the exhaust of internal combustion engines. This is possibly the agent used where a motorhome was broken into since bringing another motor vehicle near would be less noticed and with the aid of tubing the vehicle could be a short distance away and the engine noise less noticeable.


As used during the second Wold War...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_van


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## Guest

baldilocks said:


> The most reliable and most used agent for death by gassing (following the switch from coal gas to natural gas) is carbon monoxide derived from the exhaust of internal combustion engines. This is possibly the agent used where a motorhome was broken into since bringing another motor vehicle near would be less noticed and with the aid of tubing the vehicle could be a short distance away and the engine noise less noticeable.


My understanding is that carbon monoxide poisoning leaves the person poisoned (the poisonee?) with a strikingly red face.


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## The Skipper

Like everyone else I think the gassing story is an urban myth. However, I have been told by a vet friend that thieves have been known to put dogs to sleep with drugged meat which they throw over the fence. In my area there are many "casas de campo" owned by Spanish families who use them as weekend retreats. They leave dogs running free inside their fenced properties for security but thieves have been known to use human sleeping pills crushed into meat to knock out the dogs long enough for them to rob the house.


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## Pazcat

Not really come across much crime since we have been here, at our rented house the area seemed well safe and having high walls with cctv probably helped a bit, I want to install both at this house now.

The only thing was that after we had brought this house and it was empty I brought a garden hose on a reel around and within 2 days some ****** had nicked it and then a day later you things had been moved around and broken in the yard. I think that is more because the house was empty more than anything.

Now we are in the house I feel much better about it.


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## baldilocks

meetloaf said:


> My understanding is that carbon monoxide poisoning leaves the person poisoned (the poisonee?) with a strikingly red face.


Or very pink - correct - it is one of the signs. CO attaches to hæmoglobin more easily than oxygen so that instead of the blood conveying oxygen around the body, it carries more CO. Another common poison at one time was cyanide gas, but it is very difficult to get cyanide salts these days, unlike in the past when they were sometime used for photographic purposes and only needed the addition of an acid to cause cyanide gas to be released - Walk into a room and you can smell bitter almonds and any person affected will have blue lips and a blueish hue to the skin. NOTE this is why you should avoid eating too many bitter almonds (often have pink blossom) because, they contain a cyanic toxin.


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## Pesky Wesky

I'm not sure if it's a myth or not, especially when people know victims, but articles like this really don't help

Look at the headline in blue, and then the declarations of some official in red
*Ladrones duermen con gas somnífero a los vecinos para robar en una urbanización*

* Los bolsos, carteras o billeteras habían desaparecido de las viviendas y fueron encontrados en los jardines exteriores de la urbanización *



Rincón de la Victoria (Málaga). (EFE).- Al menos seis viviendas de una urbanización de *Rincón de la Victoria* (Málaga) han sido asaltadas por *ladrones *que han empleado algún tipo de *gas *somnífero con el que han rociado a las víctimas para quitarles sus pertenencias mientras dormían, según los vecinos.
Los hechos se produjeron en la madrugada del pasado viernes en la urbanización Colinas de Procusan, en el núcleo de población de La Cala del Moral, en una zona de expansión del municipio al norte de la autovía del Mediterráneo.
José Luis Gómez, residente en este complejo integrado por 220 casas, ha explicado hoy a Efe que los vecinos afectados se despertaron "mareados, con dolor de cabeza, vómitos y picor en la garganta".
Los bolsos, carteras o billeteras habían desaparecido de las viviendas y fueron encontrados en los jardines exteriores de la urbanización. "Iban buscando dinero en efectivo, porque han tenido acceso a ordenadores portátiles o cámaras fotográficas, pero no se han llevado nada más", ha declarado Gómez, que ha destacado que los intrusos se aprovecharon de que las ventanas estaban abiertas a consecuencia de las altas temperaturas para entrar por ellas.
Entre los vecinos hay "mucho miedo" por el modo en que les han robado en plena noche y por los posibles efectos adversos del gas usado sobre los niños. El jardinero de la urbanización, Lorenzo Galdeano, ha precisado que los robos han tenido lugar en cinco bloques de los veinticuatro que conforman el complejo y siempre en la planta primera, "ya que los bajos tienen rejas".
Galdeano ha asegurado que los vecinos, además de asustados, están indignados por lo ocurrido, "porque han visto que todas las medidas de seguridad que tienen aquí no han servido para evitar esto".
Además del dinero en metálico, los ladrones se llevaron las llaves de varios vehículos, pero al descubrir que en los garajes había cámaras de seguridad, las dejaron junto a los coches, según ha informado el diario "Málaga Hoy".
Por su parte, el subdelegado del Gobierno en Málaga, Hilario López Luna, ha manifestado a Efe que la Guardia Civil está investigando lo ocurrido y ha explicado que de momento "no hay certeza" de que estas personas hayan sido rociadas con un gas somnífero.
En cuanto a los robos en viviendas con sus moradores dentro, López Luna ha señalado que se dan casos "aislados", pero no tiene información de que se haya utilizado en ninguno de ellos un aerosol para sedar a las víctimas.


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## Pesky Wesky

Pesky Wesky said:


> I'm not sure if it's a myth or not, especially when people know victims, but articles like this really don't help
> 
> Look at the headline in blue, and then the declarations of some official in red
> *Ladrones duermen con gas somnífero a los vecinos para robar en una urbanización*
> 
> * Los bolsos, carteras o billeteras habían desaparecido de las viviendas y fueron encontrados en los jardines exteriores de la urbanización *
> 
> 
> 
> Rincón de la Victoria (Málaga). (EFE).- Al menos seis viviendas de una urbanización de *Rincón de la Victoria* (Málaga) han sido asaltadas por *ladrones *que han empleado algún tipo de *gas *somnífero con el que han rociado a las víctimas para quitarles sus pertenencias mientras dormían, según los vecinos.
> Los hechos se produjeron en la madrugada del pasado viernes en la urbanización Colinas de Procusan, en el núcleo de población de La Cala del Moral, en una zona de expansión del municipio al norte de la autovía del Mediterráneo.
> José Luis Gómez, residente en este complejo integrado por 220 casas, ha explicado hoy a Efe que los vecinos afectados se despertaron "mareados, con dolor de cabeza, vómitos y picor en la garganta".
> Los bolsos, carteras o billeteras habían desaparecido de las viviendas y fueron encontrados en los jardines exteriores de la urbanización. "Iban buscando dinero en efectivo, porque han tenido acceso a ordenadores portátiles o cámaras fotográficas, pero no se han llevado nada más", ha declarado Gómez, que ha destacado que los intrusos se aprovecharon de que las ventanas estaban abiertas a consecuencia de las altas temperaturas para entrar por ellas.
> Entre los vecinos hay "mucho miedo" por el modo en que les han robado en plena noche y por los posibles efectos adversos del gas usado sobre los niños. El jardinero de la urbanización, Lorenzo Galdeano, ha precisado que los robos han tenido lugar en cinco bloques de los veinticuatro que conforman el complejo y siempre en la planta primera, "ya que los bajos tienen rejas".
> Galdeano ha asegurado que los vecinos, además de asustados, están indignados por lo ocurrido, "porque han visto que todas las medidas de seguridad que tienen aquí no han servido para evitar esto".
> Además del dinero en metálico, los ladrones se llevaron las llaves de varios vehículos, pero al descubrir que en los garajes había cámaras de seguridad, las dejaron junto a los coches, según ha informado el diario "Málaga Hoy".
> Por su parte, el subdelegado del Gobierno en Málaga, Hilario López Luna, ha manifestado a Efe que la Guardia Civil está investigando lo ocurrido y ha explicado que de momento "no hay certeza" de que estas personas hayan sido rociadas con un gas somnífero.
> En cuanto a los robos en viviendas con sus moradores dentro, López Luna ha señalado que se dan casos "aislados", pero no tiene información de que se haya utilizado en ninguno de ellos un aerosol para sedar a las víctimas.


Oops, forgot the link
Duermen con gas somn?fero a los vecinos de una urbanizaci?n para robarles - ABC.es


----------



## mrypg9

Pesky Wesky said:


> Oops, forgot the link
> Duermen con gas somn?fero a los vecinos de una urbanizaci?n para robarles - ABC.es


I don't believe everything my friends tell me. I have one friend who claims she has 'healing hands'. Another believes Jeremy Corbyn will lead Labour to victory in 2020.
Yet another believes we can talk to the dead.
I have lots of very different friends, like most people. All nice, normal, otherwise sane people.
So why should I believe a friend who tells me they were gassed and robbed?


----------



## Horlics

jimenato said:


> Hole cut in window - how without risking breaking it.


They read the Hull Daily Mail.

Brazen burglars cut hole in Bridlington jewellery store window - while shop was still open | Hull Daily Mail

While the shop was still open!


----------



## Horlics

mrypg9 said:


> I don't believe everything my friends tell me..... Another believes Jeremy Corbyn will lead Labour to victory in 2020.


The fabulous thing is, I think Corbyn is the best chance they've got. It may well be no chance, but it's still the best.


----------



## jimenato

Horlics said:


> They read the Hull Daily Mail.
> 
> Brazen burglars cut hole in Bridlington jewellery store window - while shop was still open | Hull Daily Mail
> 
> While the shop was still open!


 Amazing!


----------



## chica escocesa

Corbyn will probably cause the Labour Party to self combust, but I think that's what it needs.


----------



## mrypg9

Horlics said:


> The fabulous thing is, I think Corbyn is the best chance they've got. It may well be no chance, but it's still the best.


Labour has to win 100 -one hundred - currently Tory held seats to win in 2020. Corbyn, if elected and I think he will be, will merely help pile up majorities in some Labour held seats.
There is no evidence to show that Corbyn can win. Miliband couldn't, on a less leftish platform. I suspect that if he is Leader, PMQs will be a blood sport. MPs didn't want him anyway and he will be ousted after a couple of dreadful by-election results.


----------



## xabiaxica

:focus:

please don't turn this into yet another UK politics thread...


you have plenty of those to chose from already in La Tasca


----------



## mrypg9

chica escocesa said:


> Corbyn will probably cause the Labour Party to self combust, but I think that's what it needs.


Yes. The Labour Party should self-combust. Let the ordinary working people of the UK carry on with Tory rule for eternity. After all, who cares about the old, the sick, the disabled when we remain pure and untainted by anything so vulgar as the grubby realities of office.
Pure political - or rather non-political onanism. (aka as *******). Shameful.
The Labour Party in its term of office from 1997 to 2010 brought in measures I've listed before but you seem unaware of them: Sure Start, Minimum Wage, Working Family Tax Credit, the Equality Bill, signed up to the Social Chapter of Maastricht, increased spending on the NHS and education, gave Scotland its Parliament, brought in a Windfall Tax, cut waiting lists, increased the number of teachers and nurses..none of which would have happened if the Tories had won in 1997.
Did it make mistakes? Yes, what Government doesn't...Was I disillusioned by things Tony Blair did and failed to do? Of course.
But I stayed working for what I believed in in politics because for me politics isn't about gestures and holier than thou posturing, it's about creating a fairer society, building affordable houses, building new schools and helping run existing ones, improving social services and access to them and actively working within your trades union to improve wages, conditions for your fellow workers and to get fair and equal treatment for minority groups .
That is what politics is about, my kind anyway.


----------



## mrypg9

xabiachica said:


> :focus:
> 
> please don't turn this into yet another UK politics thread...
> 
> 
> you have plenty of those to chose from already in La Tasca


Move us, then...make a new thread: What is the point of the UK Labour Party?

If enough people are interested, it will take off. If not it will deservedly die.


----------



## chica escocesa

Xabia....you clearly have such authority!


----------



## mrypg9

chica escocesa said:


> Xabia....you clearly have such authority!


Indeed she does...Cross her at your peril


----------



## xabiaxica

mrypg9 said:


> Move us, then...make a new thread: What is the point of the UK Labour Party?
> 
> If enough people are interested, it will take off. If not it will deservedly die.


that was my original plan - but since there are only two posts so far I figured I'd just nip it in the bud


----------



## mrypg9

xabiachica said:


> that was my original plan - but since there are only two posts so far I figured I'd just nip in the bud


Well, with the arrival of chicaescocesa we've got one more to add to the existing group of UK political junkies (me, Lynn, Baldy, Alca, plus the odd occasional participant...)


Odd as in infrequent, that is.....


----------



## baldilocks

The thread "What is the point of the UK Labour Party?" now exists in La tasca.


----------



## el pescador

In a nutshell Spain is a lot lot safer than the nicer suburbs of London.


----------



## Simon22

mrypg9 said:


> Odd as in infrequent, that is.....


Damn, I thought you meant me.


----------



## buble

el pescador said:


> In a nutshell Spain is a lot lot safer than the nicer suburbs of London.


Nowhere near as safe, or lovely as the Isle Of Wight though!
Wonderful community spirit & very friendly people, especially in the Newport Ale House (Fantastic Real Ales, with different barrels being changed daily, thanks to my support ). 
I'm back in Coveta Fumar 23rd September for a couple of months, to see all of my Spanish friends.


----------



## Horlics

mrypg9 said:


> Labour has to win 100 -one hundred - currently Tory held seats to win in 2020. Corbyn, if elected and I think he will be, will merely help pile up majorities in some Labour held seats.
> There is no evidence to show that Corbyn can win. Miliband couldn't, on a less leftish platform. I suspect that if he is Leader, PMQs will be a blood sport. MPs didn't want him anyway and he will be ousted after a couple of dreadful by-election results.


I think it's best described as a meltdown and it will be fun to watch. 

That said, I don't like to see political parties mould themselves into something they think can win an elections. Principles, and all that.....


----------



## Horlics

xabiachica said:


> :focus:
> 
> please don't turn this into yet another UK politics thread...
> 
> 
> you have plenty of those to chose from already in La Tasca


Sorry, it's the mods here, they let it happen?????? !!!!!!!??????!!!??


----------



## Horlics

baldilocks said:


> The thread "What is the point of the UK Labour Party?" now exists in La tasca.


It would be nice to take part. If you'll excuse me until November when I am back in the UK I'll be right there. In the meantime, I'm in Spain so I am out enjoying myself far too much to get involved in such things.


----------



## Desiato

buble said:


> Nowhere near as safe, or lovely as the Isle Of Wight though!


Not so fast! For every smiley faced resident of Cowes/Shanklin/Vetnor there is a snarling pit-bull owning neanderthal in Ryde. Nice weather though


----------



## mrypg9

Desiato said:


> Not so fast! For every smiley faced resident of Cowes/Shanklin/Vetnor there is a snarling pit-bull owning neanderthal in Ryde. Nice weather though


When I was young we used to stay at my uncle's farm, Heath Farm, Colwell Bay.
It was an old-style farm with live- stock, crops and a dairy. The farmhouse was a beautiful old building,a couple of hundred years old then.
I haven't been back for many years. Last I heard the farmhouse had become a B&B.
I have very happy memories of time spent there. We used to take the paddle steamer from Lymington Pier.
It would be great to learn what happened to the place, see a photo even..


----------



## mike kelly

I can say that Barcelona is quite safe, little chance of being violently attacked. However pickpocketing is a big issue and you always need to be careful on the metro.


----------



## MagicWriter2014

We are just back from the CdS area and one thing I always do is buy a local, but English speaking newspaper to see what is happening over there and they were saying crime is going down in general apart from the holiday resort areas like Benalmadena, Fuingerola, etc which sounds about normal. The more folk you have (in the resorts ) the more chance you have of being robbed. If I go into Aberdeen or Inverness, my nearest big cities, I would expect the crime rates to be way above the small fishing town on the coast I live in.


----------



## VFR

Strange. 
F1 star Jenson Button and his wife Jessica burgled at St Tropez holiday home

Poor old aircon is getting a bad press again.


----------



## jimenato

VFR said:


> Strange.
> F1 star Jenson Button and his wife Jessica burgled at St Tropez holiday home
> 
> Poor old aircon is getting a bad press again.


Both the French and Spanish police have said this nonsense before - I wonder why they do it?:confused2:


----------



## jimenato

The Independent has it as well.



> A source close to Button, 35, who won the F1 championship in 2009, told The Sun newspaper: “Police have told Jenson they’re convinced the burglars gassed the house using the air-conditioning units.
> 
> “Over the past five years, it’s becoming an increasingly common way for top criminals to launch raids on expensive properties in the area without being disturbed.
> 
> “Jenson is convinced that’s what happened too. The burglars were in the same room as him and Jessica, rifling through all their drawers.
> 
> “But they weren’t disturbed at all because the effects of the gas gives the burglars free reign.
> 
> “It was the same for their three other friends - they were all completely out of it.”


----------



## jimenato

...and The Telegraph

Not a canister this time - it was piped.



> It is believed they piped anaesthetic gas into the property through its air conditioning vents before entering the villa in Saint-Trope.


----------



## baldilocks

Oh the advantages of being poor - no offshore asset declarations, low to nil IHT, no CGT, low to nil income tax, no beggars, no burglars...


----------



## mrypg9

The 'poor' suffer most from crime, though. Crime is more rife in less affluent areas but rarely if ever gets the publicity that a multi- million pound bank heist gets. The less well- off can less afford to lose what little they have.
I grew up 'poor' and although I'm not wealthy now I'm glad I don't have the worries and concerns that are the stuff of everyday life for less well- off people. I'm glad I'm not at either end of the wealth spectrum.
People with less spare cash can't afford alarm systems, not that they're much use as our neighbours with hi- tech systems, cameras, the lot, were robbed.
The fact is that crimeis everywhere. The sad tale of the British woman raped and murdered in a dozy Bulgarian village proves that bad things happen everywhere. It's silly to think you MUST be safer in rural areas when in many cases the opposite is true. Having close neighbours is a good deterrent.
It's rightly said that fear of crime is more prevalent than actual crime. Sensible folk don't let their life choices and daily habits be circumscribed by fear of any sort. 
Life is full of 'what ifs' and sheer contingency. You could be mugged, burgled, struck by lightning, be involved in a car or plane crash or nowadays a terrorist attack. To be completely safe, we'd never leave the house.
All you can do is take precautions.
By the way, we've started sleeping with air con at night, first time in seven years. I prowled around the house looking for pipes and vents through which thieves could pump gas. I found none.
As for Jensen Button...itjust goes to show that celebrities are as gullible and silly as some less well- known mortals.
Which most of us knew anyway.


----------



## Isobella

jimenato said:


> ...and The Telegraph
> 
> Not a canister this time - it was piped.


where did they pipe it from 

It is easy to see how the myth is perpetuated, many think if it's in the press it must be true and the Sun was the first to report it. I did see on the BBC site a lot of "could" and "may"


----------



## baldilocks

Isobella said:


> where did they pipe it from
> 
> It is easy to see how the myth is perpetuated, many think if it's in the press it must be true and the Sun was the first to report it. I did see on the BBC site a lot of "could" and "may"


The Teleprope even perpetuated that myth (falsehood- downright lie!) about more than half of the Brits in Spain are moving back to the UK


----------



## Simon22

Yes I noticed the BBC really didn't believe it and did their best to report what people said without confirming anything.


----------



## mrypg9

baldilocks said:


> Oh the advantages of being poor - no offshore asset declarations, low to nil IHT, no CGT, low to nil income tax, no beggars, no burglars...


So the Tories and the PP are really doing us a favour.....


----------



## baldilocks

mrypg9 said:


> So the Tories and the PP are really doing us a favour.....


And by keeping us poor, they are protecting our health because we can't afford to go out and eat at the likes of McD's, can't afford to smoke nor drink... it's a win, win, win situation.


----------



## Lynn R

baldilocks said:


> And by keeping us poor, they are protecting our health because we can't afford to go out and eat at the likes of McD's, can't afford to smoke nor drink... it's a win, win, win situation.


Have you got a new job as George Obsorne's speechwriter?


----------



## baldilocks

Lynn R said:


> Have you got a new job as George Obsorne's speechwriter?


No, I would put in various double/triple negatives that inverted half his plans. I have my eyes more on helping Al Gore write speeches - he is pig awful at it himself or when he ad-libs, e.g. :
A.G. "I think Climate change is very important..." Absolute balderdash. This is not the Aladdin pantomime, there is no part for Wishy Washy.
Baldi version "Climate Change is very important, in fact it is THE MOST important thing for any government of the United States to tackle right now!" " if we don't get our priorities right and roll back the changes that are occurring in our climate right now, at this very minute, there will be no future for our children and our children's children to look forward to. And whose fault will it be? - OURS. 
We are *aware* of the problem, 
we have the *means to *deal with the problem, 
all we need is the *will* to deal with the problem."

"If we just sit on our fannies and do nothing, we might as well set off all the nuclear warheads around the world and destroy it quickly, that way there may be a little less suffering as we make this planet uninhabitable." etc.

He needs to give his speeches with more oomph!


----------



## jimenato

Simon22 said:


> Yes I noticed the BBC really didn't believe it and did their best to report what people said without confirming anything.


From the BBC website...



> Hugh Schofield, BBC News
> There has been an awful lot of rumour about sleeping gas burglaries in France, but precious little hard evidence.
> A number of doubts spring to mind: What gas do they use? In what quantities? How do they ensure it will be effective in the right parts of the house? And through the air-conditioning system? Really?
> In the camping-car community, there have been persistent claims about burglars using sleeping gas.
> On chat-lines, holiday-makers share their experiences and ask about ways to protect themselves.
> But again - no-one has ever appeared in court charged with gassing and stealing. No police-officer is on the record.
> Who knows? Maybe Jenson Button was indeed the target of a gas-and-steal.
> The head of a security firm I spoke with in St Tropez says he has never heard of an actual case of a sleeping gas burglary. "I don't believe in it at all," is what he said.


----------



## Simon22

Well that just about sums it up doesn't it! :lol:


----------



## baldilocks

I think that, if the truth were known, many of these would turn out to be insurance fraud cases. Where is the evidence of breaking and entering? Usually there is none, and in fact a door or window was left open which if put on the claim form would invalidate the claim. The burglar alarm didn't sound thus failing to alert the neighbours because somebody forgot to turn it on, etc. Cover it all up by using a some tall story about being gassed - where is the evidence? have these so-called victims been tested for residues in their blood stream? of course not and by the time anyone thinks to check, any evidence would have been metabolised by the liver and kidneys of the victim and no traces remain or, of course, there weren't any in the first place.


----------



## jimenato

I've just remembered this. It's my favourite quote from a thread on this subject on another forum some time back...



> simmo1977, leicester, 2 hours ago
> This happened to me in my campervan. I came back from the pub and went sleep, when I woke in the morning there was a horrible smell in the van, I couldn't remember anything at all and had a bad headache. When I looked in my wallet it was empty. They didn't take anything else thankfully and my bad head cleared after a full English.


----------



## mrypg9

I know sod-all about medicine or science but surely the first thing the police would do would be to test to see what kind of gas had been used...surely there would be traces in the bloodstream or on furnishings and so on?
Then, having detected the gas, wouldn't they try to trace its provenance? I mean, you don't go into Carrefour and buy a canister of ether or whatever.
I don't care who alleges they've been 'gassed', I'm sure they are either self-deluded or trying an insurance scam.
Or just hung over, attention-seeking and looking to earn a few quid by selling their tale to the tabloids.


----------



## mrypg9

*Jenson Button and his wife 'may have been gassed' in St Tropez burglary

Two men broke into rented villa in St Tropez while Formula One driver and his partner were sleeping, but experts cast doubt on gassing theory*


Guardian strapline.


----------



## baldilocks

After a very long and trying day in the heat and humidity, yesterday in Granada, I went to bed and I didn't remember a thing until this morning, in fact my mind is a complete blank about what went on during the night. Do you think I might have been gassed and burgled during the night? Answers on a postcard please.


----------



## mrypg9

And: 

*Rumours of burglars using gas have circulated in recent years. But Dr Liam Brennan, vice president of the Royal College of Anaesthetists, was highly sceptical of claims that anaesthetic gas could have been used in the raid.

“We find it very difficult to understand how anaesthetic agents could be delivered in the concentrations required to produce that sort of effect,” he told Sky News. 

Asked specifically about nitrous oxide, reportedly used in previous thefts, Dr Brennan said: “Nitrous oxide is an anaesthetic agent that we use, but it is a very weak anaesthetic agent and the concentrations required to render somebody unconscious are extremely high. It would simply not be possible to pump enough into to the environment of a house.”

He nitrous oxide was a “non-starter” because it would require 90% concentration of the gas to expose any victims to oxygen starvation. “It just would not be possible to get enough nitrous oxide to do that in a house or a room.” 

He added that other gases used in anaesthetics including ethers and chloroforms would induce “coughing and spluttering” to anyone exposed to the doses required. “Even if they were in natural sleep, it would wake them and they would cough and splutter,” he said. 

A source said to be close to the Button inquiry told French agency AFP that burglaries using gas were not known in the area. “The investigation is under way. We’re not ruling out any theory and we will test to see if any drugs were used,” said the anonymous source. “We have not seen this modus operandi in the region and it certainly is not a growing problem.”*


----------



## mrypg9

baldilocks said:


> After a very long and trying day in the heat and humidity, yesterday in Granada, I went to bed and I didn't remember a thing until this morning, in fact my mind is a complete blank about what went on during the night. Do you think I might have been gassed and burgled during the night? Answers on a postcard please.


You weren't gassed and burgled and I did tell you not to open that fourth bottle of Dom Perignon but we had a great time together in that hotel in Granada and I have some very compromising photos which I won't show anyone, you old devil you.  Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks, you naughty naughty man...

P.S. It will remain our little secret.xxxxx


Postcard to Baldy.


----------



## Isobella

mrypg9 said:


> I know sod-all about medicine or science but surely the first thing the police would do would be to test to see what kind of gas had been used...surely there would be traces in the bloodstream or on furnishings and so on?
> Then, having detected the gas, wouldn't they try to trace its provenance? I mean, you don't go into Carrefour and buy a canister of ether or whatever.
> I don't care who alleges they've been 'gassed', I'm sure they are either self-deluded or trying an insurance scam.
> Or just hung over, attention-seeking and looking to earn a few quid by selling their tale to the tabloids.


The gassing myth has been debunked, sort of. They return to it At the end. Latest is the Buttons have given blood samples although the French Police said the gassing story did not come from them.

Jenson Button and his wife being gassed by thieves doubted by French police | Daily Mail Online


----------



## jimenato

Isobella said:


> The gassing myth has been debunked, sort of. They return to it At the end. Latest is the Buttons have given blood samples although the French Police said the gassing story did not come from them.
> 
> Jenson Button and his wife being gassed by thieves doubted by French police | Daily Mail Online


Why did they add that bit at the end that completely contradicts what the rest of the article says? Typical DM.

Glad to see that skeptic commentators have picked up on this...

Comment from Sharon Hill


----------



## Horlics

Having just received a quote for some aircon work, if these guys know how to put gas in a system there is no need to resort to crime given what they could earn!


----------



## Lynn R

Horlics said:


> Having just received a quote for some aircon work, if these guys know how to put gas in a system there is no need to resort to crime given what they could earn!


You're lucky you can get it done at all - here in Málaga province most suppliers are out of stock, those who do have stock have delays in being able to fit it due to a lack of installers, and manufacturers have seized the opportunity presented by the heatwave to put their prices up. That's market forces for you!

El calor deja a las tiendas de MÃ¡laga sin stock de equipos de aire acondicionado . SUR.es


----------



## Horlics

Lynn R said:


> You're lucky you can get it done at all - here in Málaga province most suppliers are out of stock, those who do have stock have delays in being able to fit it due to a lack of installers, and manufacturers have seized the opportunity presented by the heatwave to put their prices up. That's market forces for you!
> 
> El calor deja a las tiendas de MÃ¡laga sin stock de equipos de aire acondicionado . SUR.es


That's amazing! There doesn't appear to be any shortage here, there are lots of companies ready to do it, and prices have been level, I am told. Level but high!


----------



## Gazeebo

Well I am gassed most nights - eau naturel of course.


----------



## Lynn R

What do you make of this? 9 households in the same area claiming they were robbed after some kind of drug was used.

Vecinos denuncian nueve robos en chalés de Estepona tras ser rociados con espray . SUR.es


----------



## jimenato

Lynn R said:


> What do you make of this? 9 households in the same area claiming they were robbed after some kind of drug was used.
> 
> Vecinos denuncian nueve robos en chalés de Estepona tras ser rociados con espray . SUR.es


Let's wait and see what drug was used.


----------



## Lynn R

jimenato said:


> Let's wait and see what drug was used.


If it follows the pattern of previous reports we will never hear another word about it, that's the problem. I thought "insurance scam" but then read that the thieves had got in through windows which had been left open because of the heat, so I suppose that means insurance companies would refuse to pay out anyway.


----------



## baldilocks

Lynn R said:


> If it follows the pattern of previous reports we will never hear another word about it, that's the problem. I thought "insurance scam" but then read that the thieves had got in through windows which had been left open because of the heat, so I suppose that means insurance companies would refuse to pay out anyway.


Hence the attempt to use the claim of being gassed. "It wasn't our fault, normally we are light sleepers and hear everything and we would have caught the thieves but since they gassed us..." Round hairy objects! (why don't we have a smiley for that?)


----------



## mrypg9

jimenato said:


> Let's wait and see what drug was used.


Coke seems the drug of choice...but then a lot of hashish finds its way to local beaches...
I used to sleep soundly when I was in the habit of smoking a night time spliff...


----------



## mrypg9

baldilocks said:


> Hence the attempt to use the claim of being gassed. "It wasn't our fault, normally we are light sleepers and hear everything and we would have caught the thieves but since they gassed us..." Round hairy objects! (why don't we have a smiley for that?)


A smiley for coconuts??


----------



## baldilocks

mrypg9 said:


> A smiley for coconuts??


Why not? and while we are at it, how about a smiley for when we make a boob (or two)?


----------



## Isobella

Lynn R said:


> If it follows the pattern of previous reports we will never hear another word about it, that's the problem. I thought "insurance scam" but then read that the thieves had got in through windows which had been left open because of the heat, so I suppose that means insurance companies would refuse to pay out anyway.


Yes the stories always contain a Rolex, never other expensive brands like Breitling, Cartier etc. nearly all have a thousand or more cash....no safe in holiday accommodation? I know the place, nice enough but not what the real money would be attracted to. Supposed to have 24 hour security too. A few strange bits. How do they know it happened between 4.30 and 6.30 if they were gassed. If they awoke with all the usual symptoms, irritated eyes etc. you would think at least one would have gone to urgencias.

The Police cannot refute these stories as they can hardly get into a public slanging match. Mass hysteria:confused2:


----------



## Lynn R

Some interesting figures published here (more detailed than I have seen reported previously) about burglaries in Málaga province.


Los pueblos mÃ¡s pequeÃ±os, puntos ****** del mapa de robos en viviendas en la provincia . SUR.es

Although we often hear it said that the risk is least in small villages, according to these figures the incidence of robberies in some villages proportionate to the population is actually higher.

One out of every three burglaries involves a second home.

And although popular opinion often seems to blame Morroccans and Eastern Europeans for most of the crime in Spain, the figures regarding the nationality of those arrested on suspicion of such offences certainly gives the lie to that view.


----------



## Pesky Wesky

Lynn R said:


> Some interesting figures published here (more detailed than I have seen reported previously) about burglaries in Málaga province.
> 
> 
> Los pueblos mÃ¡s pequeÃ±os, puntos ****** del mapa de robos en viviendas en la provincia . SUR.es
> 
> Although we often hear it said that the risk is least in small villages, according to these figures the incidence of robberies in some villages proportionate to the population is actually higher.
> 
> One out of every three burglaries involves a second home.
> 
> And although popular opinion often seems to blame Morroccans and Eastern Europeans for most of the crime in Spain, the figures regarding the nationality of those arrested on suspicion of such offences certainly gives the lie to that view.


Some areas will always get more crime than others (houses that are easy to break into, areas where the pickings are rich etc) but in our area house break ins tend to go in waves. One year it might be urbanizacion XXX and next year pueblo YYY for a few months while one group or other work the area. 
What you can be sure of is if they want to get in they will one way or another.


----------



## mrypg9

Pesky Wesky said:


> Some areas will always get more crime than others (houses that are easy to break into, areas where the pickings are rich etc) but in our area house break ins tend to go in waves. One year it might be urbanizacion XXX and next year pueblo YYY for a few months while one group or other work the area.
> What you can be sure of is if they want to get in they will one way or another.


Yes, that's true...although leaving the house unalarmed, persianas up, keys in back door as we did does simply the task somewhat....

Interesting to note that small towns and villages are not the little enclaves of peace and tranquillity as is often assumed. As I think you mentioned in a post last week, big towns and cities usually have barrios which are villages in themselves where community spirit is very strong and neighbourliness is the norm. People watch out for each other.
I've lived in a village, a country town and a big city as well as a tiny hamlet with no shops and three pubs for about thirty houses. The area of North London I lived in was like a village, going to the shops could take hours and it was the same in the country town. You could never say 'Off out to the shops for a minute' as every step of the way you would meet someone and had to chat. Break-ins of residential premises were rare and the culprits easily identifiable.
Of course that may well be different now as I've been out of the UK ten years and last lived in London over thirty years ago


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## Alcalaina

There have been four successful and several more attempted break-ins at homes owned by foreigners in our town since we've lived here. Foreigners are presumably seen as comparatively wealthy and therefore a good target. Mostly they are second homes left empty, or the owners are away for Christmas. There must be local knowledge of when the place is unoccupied - these aren't opportunistic. 

It's absolutely essential to have secure locks on doors and windows _on all floors _and not leave anything of value. Just pulling down the blinds isn't enough. One break-in last Christmas involved the thieves climbing onto the roof terrace from a neighbouring house, prising open the persianas and opening the French windows (which weren't locked). They took a laptop and other small electricals, presumably because they had to exit the same way; the ground floor is like Fort Knox and they couldn't leave through the front door, which is deadlocked.

I'd also stress how important it is to get on well with your neighbours!

PS And don't announce on Facebook, for all to see, that you will be away for a fortnight...


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## The Skipper

A Guardia Civil car drove past our house yesterday which was quite a surprise as we live on a mountain track 400 metres from a proper road. They stopped at the end of the track and spoke to our neighbour for about half an hour. Later yesterday I saw the neighbour and he said a family who own a nearby "casa de campo" had complained to the Guardia that his dog had chased their cats. "You would think the Guardia had better things to do like catching thieves rather than worrying about a dog that chases cats," he said angrily. He has a point.


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## baldilocks

The Skipper said:


> A Guardia Civil car drove past our house yesterday which was quite a surprise as we live on a mountain track 400 metres from a proper road. They stopped at the end of the track and spoke to our neighbour for about half an hour. Later yesterday I saw the neighbour and he said a family who own a nearby "casa de campo" had complained to the Guardia that his dog had chased their cats. "You would think the Guardia had better things to do like catching thieves rather than worrying about a dog that chases cats," he said angrily. He has a point.


It might be that it was a GC Seprona vehicle. Seprona are a special division of the GC and their job is the welfare and safety of animals and it is to them that you report cases of cruelty. There may have recently been reports of dogs being deliberately set upon cats for "fun" or "sport."


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## The Skipper

baldilocks said:


> It might be that it was a GC Seprona vehicle. Seprona are a special division of the GC and their job is the welfare and safety of animals and it is to them that you report cases of cruelty. There may have recently been reports of dogs being deliberately set upon cats for "fun" or "sport."


Possibly yes. I´ve never heard of the GC Seprona so probably wouldn´t have noticed any difference from an ordinary GC patrol car. The neighbour definitely does not set his dog upon cats deliberately. Unfortunately, it keeps jumping over the 1.5m fence around the house whenever it sees a wild animal... or a cat! (the dog is a giant Belgian Shepherd). The poor thing is now being kept on a chain following a warning from the Guardia.


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## The Quilt

I'm drugged most nights anyway,alcohol.....there could be a party in the apartment some nights and I wouldn't know. There never seems to be any proof of this "Gas" thing. The whole crime thing here I reckon is exaggerated totally out of proportion. You can be sure that there is the same amount of crime or even more where most of us come from.


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