# Application for Residency Card



## rubytwo

Hello all,

I have an interview date at the local SEF office to apply for my residency card and I've been sent a list of documents to bring. I've been told that I need to bring an ID card for the national health service and that I should apply at the local health centre. The local health health centre sent me to the Office for Social Security to obtain a Social Security number. The Office for Sicial Security was surprised that I would ask for a social security number with having obtained a Residency Card 😳 And so it goes around....

But we're working on resolving that one. The problem that I'm hoping someone can assist with is that we are self funded retirees from Australia. Australia doesn't have an ID card, because we're self funded we don't have any social security documentation from Australia and so when the office of Social Security here in Portugal has required proof that we are retired were at a loss.

Are there any Australians who've had the same issue or anyone that can suggest any solutions?


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## travelling-man

Could you not simply show some kind of document that shows you're in receipt of a pension from Oz?

The thing to remember about bureaucrats in Portugal is they simply love to be able to slap their stamp on something and anything is often better than nothing in that regard. 

That said, Portuguese NHS is dependent on residency only so how can they expect you to get a PT NHS registration card before they grant you residency?

Oh & for what it's worth, as I understand it, rules changed a year or two ago and now you do not need to get a SS number to get PT NHS registration & the SS number is only required if you plan to work here........ but hopefully someone else can chime in on that one.


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## rubytwo

travelling-man said:


> Could you not simply show some kind of document that shows you're in receipt of a pension from Oz?


Thanks for your response! Unfortunately we're not currently drawing a pension from our Australian pension fund but living off savings for a long as is viable.


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## travelling-man

rubytwo said:


> Thanks for your response! Unfortunately we're not currently drawing a pension from our Australian pension fund but living off savings for a long as is viable.


OK sorry for my misunderstanding. 

Bit that still begs the question of how can you get a PT NHS card until they give you residency when PT NHS is based on residency alone?

Perhaps it might be worth asking SEF for clarification.


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## Pgmills

We had a very similar problem. The solution was to apply for child benefit which got us all SS numbers!.... As a non EU citizen I understand that you can show private health cover as an alternative to an SS number and NHS registration.


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## Naaling

TM it's very difficult to get SEF to clarify anything! Just finding someone to talk to is a major undertaking.

SEF's list of documents is a "one size fits all" situation. Don"t worry too much about documents you don't have and can't get, because you are not eligible. They will understand your situation and won't expect you to do the impossible.
As far as health care is concerned, they will probably just want to see that you have adequate Private insurance. 
For proof of income, all you can do is provide a recent bank statement, showing the current balance of your account. You may also need to provide a recent statement from your pension fund as well.
Also, don't worry about having documents translated. SEF in Setubal were quite happy to accept English language documents.


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## Naaling

Pgmills said:


> We had a very similar problem. The solution was to apply for child benefit which got us all SS numbers!.... As a non EU citizen I understand that you can show private health cover as an alternative to an SS number and NHS registration.


Every resident can get an SS number by applying for a European Health Card!


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## rubytwo

Naaling said:


> Every resident can get an SS number by applying for a European Health Card!


Even those not originally from the EU?


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## rubytwo

Naaling said:


> TM it's very difficult to get SEF to clarify anything! Just finding someone to talk to is a major undertaking.
> 
> SEF's list of documents is a "one size fits all" situation. Don"t worry too much about documents you don't have and can't get, because you are not eligible. They will understand your situation and won't expect you to do the impossible.
> As far as health care is concerned, they will probably just want to see that you have adequate Private insurance.
> For proof of income, all you can do is provide a recent bank statement, showing the current balance of your account. You may also need to provide a recent statement from your pension fund as well.
> Also, don't worry about having documents translated. SEF in Setubal were quite happy to accept English language documents.


Thank you. I hope that you're right. Because right now we're a little concerned at how we obtain all the docs on the list.
SEF. Have actually been quite responsive to requests for clarification but they certainly haven't backed away from al the docs being required including having our marriage certificate translated and notarised......

A friend actually recommended obtaining a solicitor to handle the process. Can anyone offer any suggestion on what this might cost?


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## rubytwo

travelling-man said:


> Bit that still begs the question of how can you get a PT NHS card until they give you residency when PT NHS is based on residency alone?
> .


Yes that's what I would have thought. However, at the Health centre, the lack of residency card didn't seem to be issue, only the lack of social security number


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## travelling-man

Naaling said:


> TM it's very difficult to get SEF to clarify anything! Just finding someone to talk to is a major undertaking.
> 
> SEF's list of documents is a "one size fits all" situation. Don"t worry too much about documents you don't have and can't get, because you are not eligible. They will understand your situation and won't expect you to do the impossible.
> As far as health care is concerned, they will probably just want to see that you have adequate Private insurance.
> For proof of income, all you can do is provide a recent bank statement, showing the current balance of your account. You may also need to provide a recent statement from your pension fund as well.
> Also, don't worry about having documents translated. SEF in Setubal were quite happy to accept English language documents.


I guess it's yet another example of Portuguese variable bureaucracy in action......... We used Leiria SEF for our 10 year extension & they couldn't have been more helpful but we do have UK passports which might have made a difference. 

Maybe they don't like you colonials? lol! 

Sorry about that........ I just couldn't resist!


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## Naaling

rubytwo said:


> Even those not originally from the EU?


Yes. You just have to be legally resident in Portugal. Its EU law.


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## Pgmills

Interesting quirk if true!


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## Pgmills

Have you not just hit on the eternal Portuguese conundrum. No residence without SS number, no SS number or EHIC without residence......?


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## ViaVinho

Naaling said:


> Yes. You just have to be legally resident in Portugal. Its EU law.


I have been refused the EHIC card even though I have temporary residency and access to the SNS. According to the officials Canada, except the province of Quebec, doesn't have a reciprocal SS agreement with Portugal. Therefore, I cannot get it without being covered by Portuguese SS. As I'm retired, that is no longer an option. Perhaps a permanent residency is required?


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## Naaling

ViaVinho said:


> I have been refused the EHIC card even though I have temporary residency and access to the SNS. According to the officials Canada, except the province of Quebec, doesn't have a reciprocal SS agreement with Portugal. Therefore, I cannot get it without being covered by Portuguese SS. As I'm retired, that is no longer an option. Perhaps a permanent residency is required?


I realised after posting that the situation is more complex than I implied.

I applied for an Australian pension under the reciprocal SS agreement between Australia and Portugal at the same time I registered with SS, so I'm not sure how much one affected the other. However, my wife, who is Filipino, had no trouble registering with SS at all, once she had her residency card.

I believe that both SS and the SNS regularly misinform foreigners, in verbal communication, in the hope that they will just go away. It is my understanding that anyone who has been resident in Portugal for a year can register with SS. Most reciprocal SS agreements reduce that waiting time to zero.


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## rubytwo

Naaling said:


> I applied for an Australian pension under the reciprocal SS agreement between Australia and Portugal at the same time I registered with SS, so I'm not sure how much one affected the other. However, my wife, who is Filipino, had no trouble registering with SS at all, once she had her residency card.
> .


Hi Naaling,

Neither of us have reached pension age and, even if we were, we're self funded so I don't think that route is an option.
I hope that I'm not being to personal by asking did your wife have to supply evidence of income or employment status?

All our documents ( & after previous advice from this thread I gave them a LOT!!) have been sent off to "head office" for consideration. The look on the lady's face who served us (& she was really nice!) was not optimistic.


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## Naaling

rubytwo said:


> Hi Naaling,
> 
> Neither of us have reached pension age and, even if we were, we're self funded so I don't think that route is an option.
> I hope that I'm not being to personal by asking did your wife have to supply evidence of income or employment status?
> 
> All our documents ( & after previous advice from this thread I gave them a LOT!!) have been sent off to "head office" for consideration. The look on the lady's face who served us (& she was really nice!) was not optimistic.


You should have no trouble getting registered with SS, its covered in the reciprocal agreement between Australia and Portugal. See "Article 5" of the document below.


https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-de...rity-agreement-between-australia-and-portugal


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## rubytwo

Naaling said:


> You should have no trouble getting registered with SS, its covered in the reciprocal agreement between Australia and Portugal. See "Article 5" of the document below.
> 
> 
> https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-de...rity-agreement-between-australia-and-portugal


Thank you Naaling! Do you know if Article 5 applies to the Temporary Residency that (hopefully!?!) will receive for the first five years?


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## Naaling

rubytwo said:


> Thank you Naaling! Do you know if Article 5 applies to the Temporary Residency that (hopefully!?!) will receive for the first five years?


I might be a bit confused. Were you talking about applying for residency or social security in post #17?


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## rubytwo

Naaling said:


> I might be a bit confused. Were you talking about applying for residency or social security in post #17?


I'm trying to apply for both. 
SEF wants me to bring an ID card for the National Health service to my interview for residency.
The National Health Service requires a SS number in order to provide me with the ID card
And I'm having trouble applying for a SS number without residency.....

Article 5 in the link you provided indicates that a SS number should be available if I am granted residency. I wasn't sure if this referred to the "temporary" residency you are granted for the first five years or permanent residency.


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## rubytwo

Hello again,

I've is been advised that, although I have an official apostille of our marriage certificate in the required English, French and Spanish, I will need to have it translated by an approved translator into Portuguese. Is this the usual procedure? My understanding is that countries who are signatories to The Hague Convention accept apostilles for official documents.


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## Naaling

rubytwo said:


> I'm trying to apply for both.
> SEF wants me to bring an ID card for the National Health service to my interview for residency.
> The National Health Service requires a SS number in order to provide me with the ID card
> And I'm having trouble applying for a SS number without residency.....
> 
> Article 5 in the link you provided indicates that a SS number should be available if I am granted residency. I wasn't sure if this referred to the "temporary" residency you are granted for the first five years or permanent residency.





rubytwo said:


> Hello again,
> 
> I've is been advised that, although I have an official apostille of our marriage certificate in the required English, French and Spanish, I will need to have it translated by an approved translator into Portuguese. Is this the usual procedure? My understanding is that countries who are signatories to The Hague Convention accept apostilles for official documents.


If you haven't been to the SEF interview yet, then where are you getting this information? I doubt that it is from the officer dealing with your case. 
When my wife was getting organised for her interview, she was given a list of requirements that included SS and NHS numbers. She obviously didn't have them and wasn't in a position to get them, so she just provided proof of the required level of private health insurance and this was accepted. The people at SEF know what can and cannot be done, and don't expect applicants to do the impossible.
As for the marriage certificate, ours was from the Philippines, but in English. It was accepted without translation. The only thing we had to do was have it re-authenticated, because the initial authentication was over 6 months old.
Looking back on the process I would say that it was both reasonable and predictable. It just took a lot longer than I expected

P.S.
"Resident" in Article 5 refers to any type of residency (temporary or permanent).


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## rubytwo

Naaling said:


> I doubt that it is from the officer dealing with your case.


Not sure if it was the person handling my application but it was definitely a representative of SEF, the person who sent me the list of what documents I needed to have. Her title is Technical Assistant and, initially, she was very responsive to my requests for clarification. However after she confirmed that I had to provide a translation of our marriage certificate, by an approved translator, I asked if there was information available on which translators were approved. I've never received a response.

Thanks again for your responses Naaling! Sorry for all the questions. I just want to try ensure that I have whatever it is that I need.


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## Naaling

rubytwo said:


> Not sure if it was the person handling my application but it was definitely a representative of SEF, the person who sent me the list of what documents I needed to have. Her title is Technical Assistant and, initially, she was very responsive to my requests for clarification. However after she confirmed that I had to provide a translation of our marriage certificate, by an approved translator, I asked if there was information available on which translators were approved. I've never received a response.
> 
> Thanks again for your responses Naaling! Sorry for all the questions. I just want to try ensure that I have whatever it is that I need.


I can understand the situation you are in. I was in a similar situation just over a year ago. Good luck.


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## Easyriders

Our situation is not quite like yours, as we are EU citizens (at least for now, we are from the UK).
We were also confused, because the list of required documents sent by our local Camara for our first temporary registration as resident included marriage certificate, which we don't have with us (it's not listed as a requirement on the EU site about residency in Portugal).

So yesterday, we went to see the lawyers (the same ones we used to buy the house in Portugal). They phoned the Camara to clarify. It turns out that we don't need a marriage certificate if my husband and I do two separate requests. The things we do need are:

Passport and photocopy.

Deeds for the house we jointly own in Portugal. (If you rent, you need a rental agreement).

At least one utility bill (electricity, water etc). We pay EDP by direct debit, but have printed out the last 3 bills.

Official letters regarding State and Employers pensions (I did translations, but these are not needed, we were told).

NIF certificates.

We also showed the lawyers bank details of our savings etc, but these were not needed.

Of course, your situation is different. Can I suggest you look at the website for the EU, at europa.eu. This shows, country by country, what is needed to register as resident, depending on whether you come from inside or outside the EU.

Good luck! We are going to the Camara tomorrow, following the advice of the lawyers, and feel more confident now - will post to say how we get on!


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## max92

Hello does that mean that you need to get private insurance locally - i.e. in Portugal - before you can apply for a Residence card?


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## rubytwo

max92 said:


> Hello does that mean that you need to get private insurance locally - i.e. in Portugal - before you can apply for a Residence card?


I was told that I need to have private insurance until my residency etc is sorted. Even after (if!) it's all sorted we're planning to hold on to the private cover, at least until we get a better understanding of how the public system works.

That being said the situation may be different since you're from then UK. Perhaps someone else will be able to confirm...


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## JohnBoy

The experience that Easyriders is having is yet proof again of the way that different offices work across the country. Life is confusing enough without that hassle.

At the appropriate time, I went into the Loja in Coimbra with my passport and proof of address and immediately obtained a temporary residency. Five years later I returned to the Loja with my temporary permit, most recent passport, a passport-sized photograph and new proof of address (we had moved) and they relieved me of some piffling sum of money and took my fingerprints. So small, I cannot remember but something like ten or fifteen Euro. One week later I returned to collect my 'permanent' residency card which is valid for ten years. Presumably, if I am still around then it will simply be a matter of renewing it.

@Max92 -


> Hello does that mean that you need to get private insurance locally - i.e. in Portugal - before you can apply for a Residence card?


Well I didn't and, as a citizen of the EU, I don't see why you should.


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## Easyriders

rubytwo said:


> I was told that I need to have private insurance until my residency etc is sorted. Even after (if!) it's all sorted we're planning to hold on to the private cover, at least until we get a better understanding of how the public system works.
> 
> That being said the situation may be different since you're from then UK. Perhaps someone else will be able to confirm...


Hello All! I promised to get back to you about our application for residence (see my post above).

It was all very straigntforward in the end, but had been made a lot easier by our lawyers, who had phoned the Camara, spoke to the right person, and emailed copies of the documents needed (we didn't need a marriage certificate, my husband and I each did a separate application). The 150€ we paid the lawyers was worth every cent!

We still had to sit in the Camara for an hour while the documents were recorded into the computer, and then had to return a few days later - because the certificates had to be signed by the Mayor! But we finally both have 5 years temporary residency - though what will happen after Brexit, nobody knows!

As for your situation, Rubytwo, I would guess you might need health insurance as you are not an EU citizen. I hope the europa.eu can give you some further guidance.

Good luck! Linda


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## JohnBoy

Thanks for getting back to us as promised and great news on your success. I have to say, I am struggling to understand what is so different to your residency and my own. In my case it was simply a trip to the Loja and 10€ or so, and a return visit a week later to pick up my card; no certificate! Here is the front of the card. The reverse contains all my personal data, a photograph and my fingerprint.


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## Pgmills

One is a registration of residence and the other is a permanent residence card. Neither needs a lawyer really as they are a matter of form as EU citizens.


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## JohnBoy

Pgmills said:


> One is a registration of residence and the other is a permanent residence card. Neither needs a lawyer really as they are a matter of form as EU citizens.


What is a registration of residence please? Have I missed getting something?


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## Pgmills

As an EU citizen one need to register one's presence no later than 3 months after arrival. The issued certificate of registration is good for 5 years and thereafter one can apply for permanent residence.


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## JohnBoy

Pgmills said:


> As an EU citizen one need to register one's presence no later than 3 months after arrival. The issued certificate of registration is good for 5 years and thereafter one can apply for permanent residence.


Thanks for pointing that out. The thread is titled, "Application for a Residency *Card*" and I had lost track of the fact that Easyriders (who is not the OP) was referring to an initial registration. Even less reason to employ a solicitor then as, for me at least, it was even more straightforward then the Permanent Registration. 

Temporary: Passport, proof of address and copy of recent bank statement. Paper temporary certificate issued immediately and valid, as you say, for five years.

Permanent: Back with the expiring paper certificate, passport and two passport sized photos. Have fingerprint taken and pay 5 or 10 euro and pick up Permanent Residency card a week later.


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## rubytwo

As a follow up to my previous posts I finally managed to get registered at the health centre. After they sent me off to get a social security number I returned and explained that I wasn't going to be applying for any government pensions or benefits. For whatever reason this did the trick and I received my Documento De identificação Do Utente Do SNS. Hopefully this will satisfy the SEF at my residency interview.
As for my application for a social Security number I've so far not received a response. Unless it's needed for my residency application is there any real reason that I would need a social security number?


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## Naaling

rubytwo said:


> As a follow up to my previous posts I finally managed to get registered at the health centre. After they sent me off to get a social security number I returned and explained that I wasn't going to be applying for any government pensions or benefits. For whatever reason this did the trick and I received my Documento De identificação Do Utente Do SNS. Hopefully this will satisfy the SEF at my residency interview.
> As for my application for a social Security number I've so far not received a response. Unless it's needed for my residency application* is there any real reason that I would need a social security number?*


When you have an SS number you can go online and get a European Health Card.


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## Pgmills

Naaling said:


> When you have an SS number you can go online and get a European Health Card.


Interesting. Are you saying that as a non EU citizen, once you have residence you can get an EHIC?


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## Naaling

Pgmills said:


> Interesting. Are you saying that as a non EU citizen, once you have residence you can get an EHIC?


The right to have an EHIC is based on residency not citizenship. Once a resident has an SS number, then its a straightforward process to get an EHIC. In fact its the main reason why all residents should be registered with SS.


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## Pgmills

I agree. I have one. Stupidly I thought they were only for EU citizens though. This is good news for me post brexit


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## rubytwo

As a follow up I just wanted to thank everyone who responded with advice. It was very helpful!!

Ive been advised that I am to collect my tempOrary Residency card so it looks like all went well at the interview (all in Portuguese....amazing how much you learn from a year of rosetta Stone!!)

At the interview they expected me to have ALL the documents that were on the list provided pre interview. As much as I'm still not sure how I was able to get a number for the local health centre, providing one for the interview was essential.


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## JohnBoy

Congratulations and thanks for getting back to us.


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## rubytwo

Naaling said:


> The right to have an EHIC is based on residency not citizenship. Once a resident has an SS number, then its a straightforward process to get an EHIC. In fact its the main reason why all residents should be registered with SS.


It's been a while since the last post but I've been waiting now for four months since originally applying for a SS number. Seguras Social has never actually responded officially to the application but every time I visit I get told to go home and wait for a letter. The last time I mentioned to the representative that I needed a SS number in order to apply for an EHIC I was told that I didn't need a SS number to apply for a Cartāo Europeu De Seguro De Doença. Does anyone know if this is the same as a EHIC?

Thanks


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## Pgmills

Yes it is the same.


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