# American Spouse (Only earner) moving to Spain w/ French Citizen (not working) - Right to work?



## dsardi (Mar 15, 2021)

Hi,

Amazing forum here! Saw some helpful posts, but nothing that was quite like my situation and wanted your thoughts as Embassy has been non responsive.

I'm American, wife is French. We want to move to Spain and I will be the only one working while she cares for the Children. I'll keep my job with my American company but transfer to a Spanish office. Will I have the right to work? It's unclear online as usually the spouse has to be working as well or in school it seems.

Thanks,
David


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## ksjazzguitar (Dec 22, 2010)

Your non-EU spouse and children's residence rights in the EU - Your Europe


You are an EU citizen moving to another EU country to live, work or study? Your spouse, children and grandchildren can join you, even if they are not EU nationals.




europa.eu


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## dsardi (Mar 15, 2021)

ksjazzguitar said:


> Your non-EU spouse and children's residence rights in the EU - Your Europe
> 
> 
> You are an EU citizen moving to another EU country to live, work or study? Your spouse, children and grandchildren can join you, even if they are not EU nationals.
> ...



Thank you ksjazzguitar!

I saw this as well. The challenge I found is the below language. Does my wife qualify as a pensioner? She is not working, studying, or retired - she's just not working for a few years while we raise children. As such, it feels unclear if we qualify simply by her "living there"?

If needed she could study Spanish I suppose, though it's unclear how much income would be considered sufficient. We're a family of 4 and would probably arrive with about $50K USD in savings and a 401k and I would have a full time job based in the US.

*If your EU spouse is a worker*
If your EU spouse is legally employed in another EU country, you can stay there with them without having to meet any conditions.
*If your EU spouse is a pensioner*
If your EU spouse is a pensioner living in another EU country, you can stay there with them if they have sufficient income to live without needing income support and comprehensive health insurance for the whole family in that country.
*If your EU spouse is a student*
If your EU spouse is a student living in another EU country, you can stay with them if they:

are enrolled in an approved educational establishment
have sufficient income to support your whole family without needing income support
have comprehensive health insurance for your whole family in that country


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

dsardi said:


> Thank you ksjazzguitar!
> 
> I saw this as well. The challenge I found is the below language. Does my wife qualify as a pensioner? She is not working, studying, or retired - she's just not working for a few years while we raise children. As such, it feels unclear if we qualify simply by her "living there"?
> 
> ...


Your wife can move to Spain as an EU citzen exercising treaty rights. 
You can come with her & apply for right to reside as her spouse. Once (if) that is granted then you will have the same rights to reside & work as she does.


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## dsardi (Mar 15, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> Your wife can move to Spain as an EU citzen exercising treaty rights.
> You can come with her & apply for right to reside as her spouse. Once (if) that is granted then you will have the same rights to reside & work as she does.


Thank you xabiaxica!

Is there a reason that it would not be granted? Obviously worried at the idea of uprooting the family only to have the application denied.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

dsardi said:


> Thank you xabiaxica!
> 
> Is there a reason that it would not be granted? Obviously worried at the idea of uprooting the family only to have the application denied.


Usual reasons for refusal are as simple as there not being sufficient funds/income, or the wrong health insurance with insufficient cover. 

Your wife should register first, as soon as possible after arriving, & the children if they have EU passports. You personally must apply as her spouse within 90 days of your arrival. She needs to be registered to get the ball rolling.


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## ksjazzguitar (Dec 22, 2010)

As far as the funds needed (I'm no expert here) but there are a list here. I would assume because of the wording that it would be the same as for the NL visa, that would be (for a family of 4) E3765 per month or E45,180 per year. I gather from the wording that you couldn't rely on your income (for this figure) but would have to be from the spouse. But savings can cover that.

This is complicated stuff and there are kids involved. There are Spanish immigration layers that will sit down with you for an hour for E100. I would talk to one of them and get answers specific to your case.


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## dsardi (Mar 15, 2021)

ksjazzguitar said:


> As far as the funds needed (I'm no expert here) but there are a list here. I would assume because of the wording that it would be the same as for the NL visa, that would be (for a family of 4) E3765 per month or E45,180 per year. I gather from the wording that you couldn't rely on your income (for this figure) but would have to be from the spouse. But savings can cover that.
> 
> This is complicated stuff and there are kids involved. There are Spanish immigration layers that will sit down with you for an hour for E100. I would talk to one of them and get answers specific to your case.



Good advice - I came in to this (naively) that this would be simple: I'm the husband of an EU citizen, thus can move to the EU and work. It seems there are a lot of pit falls and want to ensure I don't move my family and find out once there that there is some type of issue.

Thank you for your help!


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## ksjazzguitar (Dec 22, 2010)

I think it's relatively easy for you - compared to others. My wife and I have spent the last several years trying to get her EU citizenship straightened out. Now that she has that we'll actually be in a remarkably similar position - trying to move there on her EU passport but I'm the main bread winner (working remotely). Let us know what you find.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

ksjazzguitar said:


> As far as the funds needed (I'm no expert here) but there are a list here. I would assume because of the wording that it would be the same as for the NL visa, that would be (for a family of 4) E3765 per month or E45,180 per year. I gather from the wording that you couldn't rely on your income (for this figure) but would have to be from the spouse. But savings can cover that.


No, the financial requirement for EU citizen and their family is totally different from NLV for non-EU citizens quoted. Generally speaking, you need to show enough resources not to become dependent on social assistance system in Spain, which means enough income or lump sum equal to IPREM (minimum income rate) which is set for 2021 at 569.40 euro per month, so it's only 25% of the amount required for NLV for non-EU citizens.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

In the OP's case though, the EU citizen is a non-earner so will not be able to prove an income in her own right (as far as I have understood).
I guess that the OP's wife would have to show a lump sum amount to demonstrate the right to register as an EU citizen in Spain, or maybe it would be wise to set up a bank account in her name only (if she doesn't already have one) and start transferring money on a regular basis into that account which can then be shown as "income".

What will not work (I think) is for the EU citizen to apply to enroll as a resident in Spain based on the subsequent family rights to join her being a condition for the source of the income.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Overandout said:


> In the OP's case though, the EU citizen is a non-earner so will not be able to prove an income in her own right (as far as I have understood).
> I guess that the OP's wife would have to show a lump sum amount to demonstrate the right to register as an EU citizen in Spain, or maybe it would be wise to set up a bank account in her name only (if she doesn't already have one) and start transferring money on a regular basis into that account which can then be shown as "income".
> 
> What will not work (I think) is for the EU citizen to apply to enroll as a resident in Spain based on the subsequent family rights to join her being a condition for the source of the income.


Yes, an active bank account or lump sum is fine for her registering. 

A lump sum or active bank account is also usually accepted for the non-EU spousal support.


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## dsardi (Mar 15, 2021)

ksjazzguitar said:


> I think it's relatively easy for you - compared to others. My wife and I have spent the last several years trying to get her EU citizenship straightened out. Now that she has that we'll actually be in a remarkably similar position - trying to move there on her EU passport but I'm the main bread winner (working remotely). Let us know what you find.



I can somewhat imagine. Actually have Italian citizenship but the hoops I had to jump through were such that after 2 years I gave up and just went through my wife. Will be sure to follow up with this group when I get more info and definitely plan on speaking with a lawyer in the next couple of weeks.

For what it's worth in Spain, I heard back from two Spanish consultates in the US (French consulates told me to check with Spain), both said that I have the right to work and just need to apply for residency upon arrival. They sent me to this link:






Estancia y residencia


Ministerio del Interior, Espa�a



www.interior.gob.es


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## dsardi (Mar 15, 2021)

Overandout said:


> In the OP's case though, the EU citizen is a non-earner so will not be able to prove an income in her own right (as far as I have understood).
> I guess that the OP's wife would have to show a lump sum amount to demonstrate the right to register as an EU citizen in Spain, or maybe it would be wise to set up a bank account in her name only (if she doesn't already have one) and start transferring money on a regular basis into that account which can then be shown as "income".
> 
> What will not work (I think) is for the EU citizen to apply to enroll as a resident in Spain based on the subsequent family rights to join her being a condition for the source of the income.


You understood correctly and it's an interesting point. We can can definitely start moving money into her account if that helps, though definitely wouldn't have enough to show that both she and I have sufficient amounts to hold us for a long time, but could probably split it to show 6 months worth of savings for each. Will discuss w/ the lawyer!


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## Phil Squares (Jan 13, 2017)

FWIW, We had a similar situation only in reverse. I am an Irish Citizen and I am retired and we were moving to Spain in order to allow my wife to take a position here as a teacher at an international school. The only thing I had to do was prove I had at least the equivalent of 20,000Euros. My wife, a US citizen, could not do anything until my NIE had been approved. During her application, they didn't even want to see her contract or any financials. The thing they really wanted to see was the paperwork proving her relationship with me. The entire process was actually pretty straightforward but very time-consuming trying to get the required documents from the US with us living in the UK!


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## kellybethinks (Mar 30, 2021)

xabiaxica said:


> Your wife can move to Spain as an EU citzen exercising treaty rights.
> You can come with her & apply for right to reside as her spouse. Once (if) that is granted then you will have the same rights to reside & work as she does.


I am moving with my Danish husband who had permanent residency for 20 years. Any idea how long it will take for me to have the same rights once we have arrived and I have submitted my paperwork?


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## kellybethinks (Mar 30, 2021)

Phil Squares said:


> FWIW, We had a similar situation only in reverse. I am an Irish Citizen and I am retired and we were moving to Spain in order to allow my wife to take a position here as a teacher at an international school. The only thing I had to do was prove I had at least the equivalent of 20,000Euros. My wife, a US citizen, could not do anything until my NIE had been approved. During her application, they didn't even want to see her contract or any financials. The thing they really wanted to see was the paperwork proving her relationship with me. The entire process was actually pretty straightforward but very time-consuming trying to get the required documents from the US with us living in the UK!


This is interesting. Our embassy (Chicago) has told us to just move and then apply for my papers once we have arrived. How did you go about this process? We have not been asked to show our financials or anything...


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## Phil Squares (Jan 13, 2017)

You can do that. As long as you can get it done within 90 days you will have no problem. In our situation, we just wanted to have everything sorted before we moved. Whoever is the EU citizen will have to get their NIE first (residency) and then the Non-EU citizen would then be able to apply for their TIE (residency). You will be asked to show financials in Spain as it IS part of the process. If you are in the US, I would recommend getting all of the documents there since it would be much easier.


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## kellybethinks (Mar 30, 2021)

Phil Squares said:


> You can do that. As long as you can get it done within 90 days you will have no problem. In our situation, we just wanted to have everything sorted before we moved. Whoever is the EU citizen will have to get their NIE first (residency) and then the Non-EU citizen would then be able to apply for their TIE (residency). You will be asked to show financials in Spain as it IS part of the process. If you are in the US, I would recommend getting all of the documents there since it would be much easier.


Yes I would like to! But the embassy insists that we just apply from Spain...?


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## KVP (Apr 16, 2017)

Phil Squares said:


> You can do that. As long as you can get it done within 90 days you will have no problem. In our situation, we just wanted to have everything sorted before we moved. Whoever is the EU citizen will have to get their *NIE first (residency)* and then the Non-EU citizen would then be able to apply for their TIE (residency).


It is my understanding that the NIE is not residency, its just a number you get to do things in Spain. You can get one without residing in Spain - for example, if purchasing a property.
You must register that you are residing in Spain, at a particular location (and yes, must be done within 90 days of arriving). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

kellybethinks said:


> Yes I would like to! But the embassy insists that we just apply from Spain...?


What is being suggested is that while you are in US, get all the required documents such as marriage certificate, bank statement etc, and once you are in Spain, get them officially translated (your marriage certificate and children's birth certificate will require Hague apostille, from US State Department: see Apostille Requirements (state.gov) Then with the help of a gestor, apply for residency.
NIE is a foreigner's identification number, which is needed to apply for certificate of registration for EU citizen and their family member.


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## Phil Squares (Jan 13, 2017)

The green card is also your resident permit. It has your NIE on it. 

What I wrote about getting all the paperwork done was not the process but the supporting documents. For example, my wife and I had been married for over 30 years and they wanted a marriage license not more than 5 years old. We had to jump through hoops to get that and then get an apostille as we lived in the UK and the document was coming from TX. We had to use a family member to get the document then get the apostille. That process alone took about 3 weeks. So, the more you have the better off you will be in terms of documentation.


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## kellybethinks (Mar 30, 2021)

Joppa said:


> What is being suggested is that while you are in US, get all the required documents such as marriage certificate, bank statement etc, and once you are in Spain, get them officially translated (your marriage certificate and children's birth certificate will require Hague apostille, from US State Department: see Apostille Requirements (state.gov) Then with the help of a gestor, apply for residency.
> NIE is a foreigner's identification number, which is needed to apply certificate of registration for EU citizen and their family member.


Ahhhhhhhhh thank you for the clarification. Yes I am doing that! SALUDOS!


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## kellybethinks (Mar 30, 2021)

Phil Squares said:


> The green card is also your resident permit. It has your NIE on it.
> 
> What I wrote about getting all the paperwork done was not the process but the supporting documents. For example, my wife and I had been married for over 30 years and they wanted a marriage license not more than 5 years old. We had to jump through hoops to get that and then get an apostille as we lived in the UK and the document was coming from TX. We had to use a family member to get the document then get the apostille. That process alone took about 3 weeks. So, the more you have the better off you will be in terms of documentation.


Yes! I am ordering fresh birth certificates, marriage licenses, university transcripts, etc. I will travel to the capital to have everything stamped soon. What a process!


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

kellybethinks said:


> Yes! I am ordering fresh birth certificates, marriage licenses, university transcripts, etc. I will travel to the capital to have everything stamped soon. What a process!


Yes, paperwork can be irksome but the process to become legal residents in Spain is a lot simpler for you and your family because of EU citizenship.


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

kellybethinks said:


> Yes! I am ordering fresh birth certificates, marriage licenses, university transcripts, etc. I will travel to the capital to have everything stamped soon. What a process!


Just be careful not to jump the gun too much. Your birth certificate, marriage license, etc cannot have been issued more than 90 days previous to the date you apply. It can be very tricky getting the dates right when submitting official paperwork.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

KVP said:


> It is my understanding that the NIE is not residency, its just a number you get to do things in Spain. You can get one without residing in Spain - for example, if purchasing a property.
> You must register that you are residing in Spain, at a particular location (and yes, must be done within 90 days of arriving). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!


That's right, NIE has nothing to do with residency.

The EU half of the couple gets registered asap after arrival - that's a one appointment process & as long as financials & healthcare are in place, the EU registration card is issued on the spot.

The non-EU applies to stay as their spouse within 90 days of their arrival. They can stay until a decision is made, however long that takes.

In both cases, a NIE (essentially an ID number for fic¡scal purposes) will be issued if the applicant doesn't already have one.

@kellybethinks it's the easier & more usual way of doing things.


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