# Need advice please regarding freeze on wages on an indefinido contract



## Sherrie (Dec 31, 2010)

Hi to everyone,

I am new here - just joined today. 

I'd be grateful if anyone could give me any advice or share any first-hand experience they may have of a similar situation such as the one I’m in at the moment. I am going to get some legal advice about it in January when all the festivities are over (I can’t get an appointment to see anyone till then), but in the meantime, I wondered if anyone could offer any words of wisdom.

I will try to be as brief as possible.

I work for an English employer in Spain and I have a part-time (10 hours per week) indefinido contract with them - I have worked for my current employer for over three years. 

Recently, due to a downturn in trade (I work as a cook), my employers have not been able to pay me, so have simply told me not to bother coming in. I am currently down 16 hours in wages with no prospect of making up the time, or of course, the wages I am owed. Some of the hours in question relate to public holidays (one of which was Christmas day).

I have discussed the situation with two of my employers (there are four), both of whom have told me that there’s nothing they can do about it because trade is so slow. They even seemed surprised that I asked for the opportunity to make up the time when business picks up. Incidentally, their daughters also work there and their hours haven’t been cut at all!

I should say that there is one other member of staff in the same position as me.

I know that money is tight for my employers and I have tried to be understanding of their situation. However, their financial circumstances should not be my concern. I don’t mean to sound harsh, but that’s what it comes down to.

I’d like to know what my legal rights are on a part-time contract. I know that an infefinido contract is a good thing to have, but the way my employers are behaving, you wouldn’t think so.

Also, I recently had sciatica and was off work for five weeks. I was not paid during this time. 

Having never taken any sick leave from work since I’ve lived in Spain (11 years), I have no idea what the procedure is regarding sick pay. Nonetheless, at the request of my employer, I submitted the relevant notes, signing me off and back on again. I went back to work in October and I haven’t seen any sick pay yet. Does anyone know the score regarding this also please?

To conclude, I will say that I believe that my employers would like me to leave of my own accord, as that would be one less problem they have to deal with. I won’t though.

I would be grateful for any advice.

Thanks very much,

Sherrie


----------



## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

Sherrie said:


> Hi to everyone,
> 
> I am new here - just joined today.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that Sherrie. You should have got sick pay if you have a Social security contract since the sick notes you submit are sent to Social Security. I think I am right in saying that it is Social Security who pay sick pay to your employer at a slightly reduced rate. Usually you receive this in the period immediately following your sick leave.

I dont know the guidelines re making up your hours to honour the contract but I am sure you dont have less rights just because you are part-time. You are absolutely right not to leave voluntarily, as this can affect your right to unemployment benefit, so dont let them force you out! 

Never mind their financial difficulties, that is their problem, you have to protect your rights and your financial situation, and the fact that their daughters are being treated differently in that situation is unfair but family businesses can be like that unfortunately.

Unfortunately, too having an indefinido contract is no guarantee that you wont be sacked or treated unfairly but you are doing the right thing by seeking legal advice now, and if you are sacked just dont sign anything till then either!


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Please take note, all those people who think unions aren't needed in this day and age ...

This is exactly the sort of situation the union would sort out (or not let happen in the first place!)

Good luck Sherrie, hope it all works out for you.


----------



## Guest (Dec 31, 2010)

First off, as you've been cut back hours, can you earn 1/2 unemployment? 
Second, is there a local union office (UGT, etc) where you could ask someone for help? I've seen that unions up here are willing to give advice to folks who aren't affiliated.


----------



## leedsutdgem (Jun 3, 2010)

*Go to the Unio ( CCOO )*



Sherrie said:


> Hi to everyone,
> 
> I am new here - just joined today.
> 
> ...


Hi Sherrie,

I am so sorry that you are having to go through this. This is unfortunately one of the drawbacks of having an english employer as they do not understand the employment laws here fully (or maybe do not want to understand them).

If I were you I would go to your local union the CCOO (Comissiones Obreras). They will be able to advise you better on your situation. First of all what I can tell you is that when you were off sick you should have been paid. Their economic situation is not your problem. Please do not walk away from the job, if they want to get rid of you then they will by law have to pay you 45 days wage per year worked. It does not make any difference whatsoever if you are on a part time or full time contract.

I had a similar situation a few years back where my english employer wouldnt give me a indefinido contract. I worked there for 4 years and they kept getting me to sign contracts every 6 months. Now, if I ever needed a bank loan etc the first thing the bank would ask was for your work contract. Once they seen it was temporary then no loan. So, I went to the Union and they denounced them for me. They gave me a indefinido contract then. So, find out where you local office is, explain your situation to them and they will help you.


----------



## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

halydia said:


> First off, as you've been cut back hours, can you earn 1/2 unemployment?
> Second, is there a local union office (UGT, etc) where you could ask someone for help? I've seen that unions up here are willing to give advice to folks who aren't affiliated.


The problem is if she hasnt been paid for a while, then she wont have the payslips (nominas) to show that she is earning less. However, if she earns below a certain amount each month and can show the last 3 payslips to the INEM, she may be able to apply for "prestamo de compatibilizacion" - I think it is called. It may be worth going to the INEM office about this.


----------



## Sherrie (Dec 31, 2010)

Caz.I said:


> The problem is if she hasnt been paid for a while, then she wont have the payslips (nominas) to show that she is earning less. However, if she earns below a certain amount each month and can show the last 3 payslips to the INEM, she may be able to apply for "prestamo de compatibilizacion" - I think it is called. It may be worth going to the INEM office about this.


Hi Caz.I, Alcalaina, halydia and leedsutdgem,

Thank you all so much for your replies and advice - you've been so helpful and it's very much appreciated.

One point I forget to mention, which was highlighted in your replies, is that I don't get payslips unless I continually harass my employer for them and even then, they are very few and far between. Their excuse is either that they can't find them, or the toner cartridge in the copier has run out and they can't give them to me until they've taken copies (honestly!).

I have even contacted my employer's Gestoria's office to see if I can pick up the slips from them myself, but been told that they have to send the payslips to my employer (which they do), but thereafter, the matter is out of their hands. 

I know that when I go and get some advice in the New Year, I'll be asked to obtain all my payslips, so I'll have to see what happens then. 

As I said before, I will follow this up in the New Year and will post the outcome on here in the hope that someone else may benefit from the information.

In the meantime, I wish you a very happy, healthy and peaceful New Year and once again, a huge thank you to you all for your advice.

All the best,

Sherrie


----------



## Guest (Dec 31, 2010)

Sherrie said:


> Hi Caz.I, Alcalaina, halydia and leedsutdgem,
> 
> Thank you all so much for your replies and advice - you've been so helpful and it's very much appreciated.
> 
> ...



Oh gosh... this doesn't sound good. Please get professional advice.


----------



## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Sherrie, I wish I could offer some advice, but apart from recommending that you take proper legal advice I can't help

that said, the breadth of knowledge from the members of this forum never ceases to amaze me:clap2:


----------



## Sherrie (Dec 31, 2010)

Hi halydia and xabiachica,

Thanks for your responses. 

Yes, am going to get advice, but have learned so much already that I didn't know from the wonderful people on this forum. 

I couldn't agree with you more xabiachica - the breadth of knowledge of the members is amazing - talk about paging the Oracle!

All the best,

Sherrie


----------



## leedsutdgem (Jun 3, 2010)

Sherrie said:


> Hi Caz.I, Alcalaina, halydia and leedsutdgem,
> 
> Thank you all so much for your replies and advice - you've been so helpful and it's very much appreciated.
> 
> ...


Sherrie, this is totally illegal. Your employer MUST give you a wage slip every month! How do you even know that they are paying your social security etc. They sound like a very dodgy bunch to me. 
You need to get this sorted. 

Happy new year to you too.


----------



## anles (Feb 11, 2009)

Caz.I said:


> Sorry to hear that Sherrie. You should have got sick pay if you have a Social security contract since the sick notes you submit are sent to Social Security. I think I am right in saying that it is Social Security who pay sick pay to your employer at a slightly reduced rate. Usually you receive this in the period immediately following your sick leave.
> 
> I dont know the guidelines re making up your hours to honour the contract but I am sure you dont have less rights just because you are part-time. You are absolutely right not to leave voluntarily, as this can affect your right to unemployment benefit, so dont let them force you out!
> 
> ...


If your illness is not a professional illness, for the first three days you aren't entitled to be paid, then from the 4th to the 15th day your employer is liable and the remaining days it is covered by the Social Security. However, the Social Security applies an indirect payment by deducting it from the employer's contributions. You need to get advice from a union immediately because by not going into work, no matter what your employers have told you, you are not complying with your contract and therefore are forfeiting your rights. If you don't have your pay slips, your employers can't prove they have paid you. Under Spanish law at present workers' rights are protected and your contract has to be regulated according to a law. Each province or region has it's own law but you can access this on the net. In your contract it will state what "convenio" regulates your contract.


----------



## Sherrie (Dec 31, 2010)

Hi leedsuntgem and anles,

Some more things I didn't know!

I am so grateful for all this advice - thank you soooo much.

anles, I guess what you mean by "professional illness" is one that could have been caused by working conditions? The answer is, I don't know. 

It was certainly aggravated by being at work, because I'm on my feet all day, but whether it was caused by that, I can't say.

Thanks for the insight though.

All the best to you both,

Regards,

Sherrie


----------



## Sherrie (Dec 31, 2010)

*Update regarding this thread ...*

Hello all,

Just a quick note as I said I'd update on this situation after I'd been to get some advice.

Went to a Gestoria yesterday who told me that:

Under the terms of my contract (which is a part-time, 10 hour per week contract), I am entitled to 30 days paid holiday per year.

However, as my employers are in financial difficulty and have not been forthcoming with any outstanding holiday pay for last year, the only way to take them to task is to see a solicitor who will denounce them, and start proceedings against them. 

The only problem with that though, is that it could end up costing more than I'm owed, so the Gestoria didn't recommend it and quite frankly, much as I'd like to pursue it, I really don't want to lose any more money. 

She said that she appreciated that it was a very frustrating situation, but if someone didn't have the money, what was there to be achieved by taking action against them? 

With regard to the sick pay I was due, I was offered 50 euros last week by my employer as that was "all that's available", but when I said that I was going to take legal advice, he suddenly 'found' an extra 150 euros and gave me that too. According to the Gestoria, there is a little bit more to come, but at least I have had the greater part of it now.

Incidentally, my employer also told me last week that at the end of next month, they're going to "close the doors and do a runner". What can you say to that?!

With regard to the other stuff, holiday pay, lost hours, etc., it looks like I'm going to have to forget about it, annoying as that will be, as I don't feel inclined to spend hundreds of euros on solicitors bills. 

Disappointed with the outcome, but am just looking at it from the point of view that there are far worse things that could happen!

Time to move on ...

Thanks again to all who have given me advice on this thread.

All the best,

Sherrie


----------



## Alcalaina (Aug 6, 2010)

Sherrie said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Just a quick note as I said I'd update on this situation after I'd been to get some advice.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for updating us. It is a very sad story, but you are being very sensible and pragmatic about it. Hope something else comes along soon!


----------



## nigele2 (Dec 25, 2009)

Sherrie very interesting. Thanks and Buena suerte


----------



## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

Sherrie said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Just a quick note as I said I'd update on this situation after I'd been to get some advice.
> 
> ...


These could be of use to you . Won't cost you anything if you are on low or no income. European Commission - European Judicial Network - Legal aid - Spain


----------



## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

just another thought that it might be worth pursuing is that if he's going to shut up shop you'd be entitled to redundancy which could be considerable. Add to that all the holidaypay you've never had & it could be a tidy sum. The fact that they say they're potless doesn't come into it & should be taken with a pinch of salt. If they own anything, car ,house, etc; it can all be embargoed & the fact that they're probably going back to the uk means they can be persued their for anything they own.


----------



## anles (Feb 11, 2009)

Sherrie said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Just a quick note as I said I'd update on this situation after I'd been to get some advice.
> 
> ...


Hi Sherrie,
I don't know what kind of gestor would give you this kind of advice, unless they were working for the company! You should go to a union, you won't have to pay a huge amount in solicitors bills because when you sign up with them you agree to pay them a percentage of what they obtain on your behalf, so no win, no pay. Even if they declare themselves bankrupt you would still eventually get some compensation as all employers have to contribute to the "FOGASA" which is for this purpose. As you only have a ten hour a week contract, you aren't entitled to a huge compensation, obviously, but you are entitled to what you is yours by law. Another problem you will find is that they have to pay you if they sack you, if you resign of your own free will you will lose the right to claim unemployment benefit if you have contributed enough to receive it. If they don't terminate your contract you will still figure as employed "de alta" which will stop you from being able to register on the "paro" and if they aren't paying your social security the longer this situation exists, the bigger the problem for all involved.


----------



## Caz.I (Mar 21, 2009)

anles said:


> Hi Sherrie,
> I don't know what kind of gestor would give you this kind of advice, unless they were working for the company! You should go to a union, you won't have to pay a huge amount in solicitors bills because when you sign up with them you agree to pay them a percentage of what they obtain on your behalf, so no win, no pay. Even if they declare themselves bankrupt you would still eventually get some compensation as all employers have to contribute to the "FOGASA" which is for this purpose. As you only have a ten hour a week contract, you aren't entitled to a huge compensation, obviously, but you are entitled to what you is yours by law. Another problem you will find is that they have to pay you if they sack you, if you resign of your own free will you will lose the right to claim unemployment benefit if you have contributed enough to receive it. If they don't terminate your contract you will still figure as employed "de alta" which will stop you from being able to register on the "paro" and if they aren't paying your social security the longer this situation exists, the bigger the problem for all involved.


That is excellent advice, Anles. I hope she takes it. Too many unscrupulous employers can get away with treating their staff like this because they rely on their employees not knowing their rights or not fighting back, thinking it is all too much trouble.


----------

