# Future for children..a mothers angst!!!



## nkiera (Apr 21, 2013)

Following on from my other thread which is more my husbands side of things I have my own questions and wondered if anyone could give me their opinions and experience please

As mentioned before my husband is a doctor (57 years old) who wants to work in Cape Town for a few years then retire there, His quality of life would be so much better in Cape Town compared to the UK. He also wants to do something worthwhile with his last few years of medicine. We are working our way through that process slowly (like treacle!!)

Re: safety - we have friends living in the northern suburbs near durbanville, they live in a stand alone house which is not in a gated complex. In fact in the northern suburbs I saw very few gated communities. They don't feel unsafe, they have electric gates and alarms but so do some friends I know here in England. Their children go to state English schools not private and they are very positive and enthusiastic about life in Cape Town. My friends feel things are improving in South Africa and that a lot of the negatives are over emphasised where as the positives are under reported especially in the British media. They moved to Cape Town 4 years ago and I see how happy and settled they are.

My confusion  and dilemma is I only have their view point. Are they living in a bubble? Have I not seen the true picture?. We have visited SA twice now and returned two weeks ago from a 3 week stay. We did not feel unsafe anywhere we travelled (capetown to montagu and back plus all over Cape Town area). Their children are happy and doing brilliantly well at school - better in fact than they would in England according to their parents. More out door activities and a healthier lifestyle. My husband worked with our friend who is also a doctor for 15 years before he moved . Our friend would never return to England despite being English

I think my main dilemma is not so much for me as I already have my life, career etc (nurse 37 yrs old). I want to know more about the opportunities and difficulties my children will face. They both have and will keep irish & UK passports so could come back to uk or to Ireland if they could afford it. 

I worry about the risk to them as they get older and more independent such as assault, rape etc (I know there are similar risks anywhere in the world). Please bear in mind this is a mothers fears so will always be out of proportion !! Lol 

I worry that they wont be able to do the careers they chose because of Affirmative Action and BEE (believe me I have read around these areas but so many conflicting opinions!!)
Is South Africa going to continue to grow and settle and be a safe place to live as my friends believe or is it heading down hill for white people as many posters on numerous forums would have me believe??

I hoped that expat opinions from people currently living in Cape Town would give me a more objective view point

My secret fear is that we will make the move selfishly for us and our present circumstance and regret the impact it has on our children later in life as adults..am I the only one who finds this so scary??

Any advice on any angle would be appreciated. Did any of some of you ex pats have similar dilemmas worries etc. how did you make the final decision to up & move? Any mums on here who had similar angst and how did you make decision?

Kind regards

Nkiera


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## 2fargone (Jun 14, 2011)

Have you asked your kids what they think about moving?

I don't think you are going to find anyone to say move or don't move. That is such a BIG step that you really have to make on your own, and try to decide if it's right for you family.

To be honest a 3 week stay is not that long. If you are having doubts why not stay for few months, and rent an apartment. I think that is best way to get a feel for South African living. Rent a car, and drive around. Shop where the locals do.

I am sure others will have more suggestions. But that is what I would do. Good luck in yoru decision.


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## nkiera (Apr 21, 2013)

Hi 2fargone

thank you for your reply

We lived with friends for 3 weeks this year and three weeks a couple of years ago. On both visits we hired a car and travelled around a lot. We mainly stayed in the local area for shopping and even went to the local catholic church on easter sunday. Our friends live in the Northern Suburbs so we didn't experience Cape Town from a holiday perspective we lived as they do for the time we were there except a few days when we drove to Montagu, Robertson and around that area. My concern is that it all seemed too easy, too safe and without problem which is not the impression many people give about Cape Town. Our friends have never experienced any problems, burglary, fear, harassment or even a car prang!! So here is the dilemma is what we saw real, will it last?

My children are only just 8 I wouldn't worry them with a plan that may never happen but they would adapt any where.


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

While we can't tell you stay or go - here's my thought. I also should add a few caveats : 

1 - I'm a dual citizen ( usa and SA ) 
2 - My family is from cape town 
3 - I'm black 

I live on the west coast - in a neighborhood with 24 armed guards. My parents live in this same area - but not in a gated neighborhood. They've been attacked - 5 years ago by armed robbers - but nothing before and nothing since. Our neighborhood ( where we live) has virtually no crime - but the armed response alarm company presence is very obvious. More recently, my friend who lives in Pinelands had someone climb a drain and get into her apartment while she was in the shower. Fortunately they took only the laptop and she never saw them. I'm not saying this to make a point and say crime is bad here. I think the operative message here is that you have to be smart. You do what you can to reduce the chance of being a victim of crime. Armed response, electrified fences, dogs, high walls, beams, panic buttons, cameras etc are all part of living here. You can choose not to have those things - but you do so at your own risk. 

I've lived in major metropolitan areas in the US. I had alarm systems there. I lived in the South and almost everyone I knew owned a gun. There are 2 existences in South Africa ( although I'll speak more on Cape Town). There are the have's and the have-nots. If you have money - you will live in a low crime area, you will enjoy nice areas like the west coast, camps bay, etc. Your children will go to good schools - and Cape Town will seem not so intimidating. If you don't have money - you will see all of the dangers and challenges Cape Town / South Africa has to offer. 

What makes here different from the West is that the have-nots are suffering more than the have-nots in the West.

As for employment as a White person - I don't want to lie to you - right now things aren't easy for white people. As a black woman interviewing for jobs - I've been told countless times - You're black, you're female - you'll make money. All people want is black people to hire so they can meet their quotas. I have met plenty of White people struggling with employment here in SA. It's not impossible - but the odds are not with you. 

I don't believe that this country is going to hell in a handbasket. 15-20 years of freedom is hardly enough to gauge that. There are things I don't like about here - the general apathy. Another is the culture of strikes ( right now the busses aren't running because of strikes, a little while ago it was mining strikes, before that farming strikes). Customer service is a joke - and quality of service is even worse. But there are things I love - Kirstenbosch gardens, the beaches, the restaurants, the laid back lifestyle, etc. So it's a mixed bag - but isn't everything? I should also point out - there are things that surprisingly are more expensive than the US. For example electricity, gas, and possibly even groceries! But labor is cheap and my child's education and my housekeeper cost a fraction of what I was paying in the US... Cars ( new ones) cost more. Rent is comparable - even cheaper depending on how close you want to be to the ocean 

We are in the process of setting up our second home out here. I'm very hopeful but I'm also not sinking all of our resources into living here. I'm leaving all of my options open so that we aren't screwed if things don't work out. So far I'm loving where I live, my lifestyle and even my kid's school / early education program. That being said - by SA standards - I'm a "have" so my perspective is definitely jaded from the general populace.

I hope this helps....


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## nkiera (Apr 21, 2013)

Hi MissGlobal

Thank you so much for your reply to my posting. You really gave me some objective feedback and I am really grateful. I think we would be looking at moving to Cape Town on a retirement Visa (my husband) and then my husband could look for work once we are there and settled. The impression I get is that it's easier to get a job as a doctor in Cape Town if you are already there and can do the rounds of clinics and hospitals. I would not be looking for work initially until I was certain the children were settled into school and life etc.

I am mainly worried more for my children's future than ours. We should hopefully be able to emigrate and live on my husbands pension, a bit of extra income from locum work would be helpful too. My concern is that they would struggle as two white girls from England/Ireland living in South Africa trying to get into Universities and then jobs. I know England isn't great but it generally goes on academic achievement and skill rather than skin colour.

I need to find out options for their being able to come back to UK if things become a struggle...they will always have their Irish and British passports.

Any advice any one

Kind Regards

Nkiera


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## steveh (Apr 30, 2009)

view from a welshman,

Having moved here in 2009 on a retirement visa, we found job easily enough. However as time has gone by there have been certain makers pointing to the fact that the country is moving towards a zim situation! Like the Frog in a pot. As the heat rises slowly he doesn't realize he being cooked until it too late!

Strikes are more frequent and more violent, customers service, as said above doesn't exist, jobs are harder for whites, who will set up there own business!

We are considering returning to the UK. Not because we don't love it in SA, but markers we put in the sand when we arrived are coming to become a reality. I feel white here are in a bubble. 
politics is so corrupt is blatant. secrecy bill, Don't rely on police, as the corruption from above is filtering down to all walks of public services, Bank not allowing citizens to either re-bond (mortgage) or even take sums of money from saving. So the money you bring in, you may not get out. Electricity prices are extremely expensive with price hikes up to 16% year on year and 25% before that. plus powercuts will start again this winter!

We also have concerns for our children future here (ages 12 and 8), universities, jobs and safety! friend who kids are going to university are looking abroad, or trying to send them abroad before they look SA universities. 

Last month I was talking to my daughter about her friends uncle who was stabbed, shot and murdered in the street for a cell phone! As we discussed this, the thought went through my head that I shouldn't be having this conversation with a 12 year old. 
My children have seen dead bodies in the street from car accidents, where the emergency services take over 45 minutes to arrive! people shooting guns.
I don't want to sound dramatic or alarmist but you should know to expect these type of things happening not everyday, but you should be aware of it that these things do happen here! 

Most people have a back up plan either OZ, NZ, UK through spouse, or grand parentage! So it unsettling to find that we have come to country where everyone else is pulling out or planning to or have a plan to in the future if/when it gets bad.

Dont get me wrong I love living here and I've given up a lot being here. I wouldn't swap the experience for anything, but you have to to keep an eye on where will you and your children be in 5 yr and 10 yr time! 

Some advice - If your coming, use an immigration company to sort your visa's. it worth every penny, some people i know who have done it themselves applied 2 years before us and are still waiting. We were sorted with Visa's ID and SA drivers and it still took 3 years.

Good luck with your decision!


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## 2fargone (Jun 14, 2011)

steveh said:


> view from a welshman,
> 
> Having moved here in 2009 on a retirement visa, we found job easily enough. However as time has gone by there have been certain makers pointing to the fact that the country is moving towards a zim situation! Like the Frog in a pot. As the heat rises slowly he doesn't realize he being cooked until it too late!
> 
> ...


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

Steveh - you make a good point! We actually chose not to move our money here because of how crazy the banking is here. It is so restrictive that it isn't worth it. We wire ourselves only exactly what we need - and we use our American credit cards for everything else! I hate to say it but - whenever you consider moving to the third world - you have to keep that sort of stuff in mind. I think it's crazy to move to any country without an exit strategy. Even if you ignore the challenges there - what if you aren't happy and want to go back!

Nkiera - think about what you want for your kids. I already know that a life in the USA is what I want for my children. SA is nice but I want more opportunity, more cultural variety and more exposure than what SA can offer. The US can give our kids that. So we are working to expan our business in the US and working to extend our business to SA. That way we leave as many options as possible.


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## nkiera (Apr 21, 2013)

MissGlobal & Steveh

Thank you both for your comments, advice and replies to my questions.

We want to move to South Africa as we feel it will give my husband a better life than he will have if we stay in the Uk. Staying in the Uk means he can't retire until he is 70 due to tax, pension, young children etc. Moving to SA means he could retire now aged 58 with a tax free pension. 

We feel having seen our friends recently, living in CapeTown since 2010 that our children will have a wonderful childhood and better family life than we currently have now. More time together as a family more opportunity for activities together etc

My worry is their adult life may be harder in SA than in the UK. University places and work opportunities. My husband believes they will probably come back to the UK for University and possibly work and also says they could possibly go any where in the world anyway whether we stay in the UK or move to SA. They will have Irish and British passports, they will also hopefully have SA passports by the time they are 20 so could move back to UK

We plan to make sure we have property in the UK all be it a very small one so that if things go wrong we can move back to the UK. We also do not plan to have all our money in SA , as you say MissGlobal we would only transfer enough each month to live on.

My way of looking at it is to see it as a ten year plan similar to those families that move around the world for work with children but plan at some point to return to the UK if necessary. We may not stay in Sa or we may stay and see how it goes.

Steveh your comments about things your children witness and discuss really did worry me and had me definitely wobbling on my plans. However we talked to our friend last night via Skpe who said they have never witnessed gun crime, dead bodies or any other scary issues in 4 years living in Cape Town. My friend also has family in Cape Town and so visited every year for 30 years and has never had any problems in all that time. Is Cape Town very different to Durban or Joberg? 

My husband seems to think that our children will leave SA any way. His older daughter left UK and lives in Sweden so no guarantees your children stay near you when adult so he feels we need to plan our lives for us. 

I feel so confused as to what to do, I thought coming on an Ex pat forum would help as it would give me a more objective viewpoint. A lot of forums I have found are posted on by people who have left SA and/or are disillusioned by the country. A lot of forums I found had some very nasty racist comments on and made me feel that the issues they discussed were over exaggerated. 
I suppose I naively thought that people who were British, American etc having recently moved to SA and had obviously been through this process themselves and already done all the research and soul searching would be more positive but that is not quite the case is it? This forum has really made me slow down in my enthusiasm for moving but it hasn't entirely put me off.

My friends in Cape Town believe that the country is moving forward and that the BRICS situation is proof that the big powers feel they are capable and not "going to hell in a handcart" as so often been quoted. 

Are there any people out there who totally disagree with comments and feel that Sa is a good place to bring up children, do they not come on forums as they are happy with life.??

Nkiera


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## Saartjie (Mar 1, 2010)

nkiera said:


> MissGlobal & Steveh
> 
> Thank you both for your comments, advice and replies to my questions.
> 
> ...


Hi Nkiera, I am one of those who is totally happy with my decision to move to SA. I have been here since August 2010 and so far (apart from my constant hassle with Home Affairs) I am truly very happy with our move. I gave birth to our first child less than two months after we arrived here so my daughter is now 2 and a half. We previoulsy spent 12 years in the UK and although most of our time there was great, we made a decision that we did not want to bring up our child there. This was due to many reasons but mainly because none of us had family there and also we felt that our standard of living would be much improved in SA which in the end would benefit our daughter. I think we are able to give our daughter a much better start in life here and she seems to be thriving. We love the fact that she can see her grandparents all the time and that we can spend most of our free time out doors due to the great weather. We can afford to send her to a good Montessori school and have already secured her a place in her future school as well, something which we probably would not have been able to do in the UK.

I have a personal interest in politics and follow all events closely in SA. Therefore, I know that the future here can be very different and we do have an exit plan should it be necessary for us to leave. My daughTer has dual citizenship (SA and Swedish) and my husband is eligible for a Swedish passport should we return to my home country. This does not mean that we are planning to leave, we are just leaving a door open just in case. Given the current economic climate, it makes sense to have options, wherever you are in the world.

I do not live in fear, if that was the case then we would never have moved here. I cannot have a proper life if I am to walk around feeling scared and worried all the time. We live in a stand alone house in Johannesburg (Observatory). We have burglar bars and an alarm system but no electric fence. I have never felt unsecure there however when we first moved to Joburg we lived in a secure complex and I absoutely hated it. I felt claustrophobic and totally paranoid all the time. I think a lot of people create their own fear in that they surround themselves with high walls, electric fencing, fancy alarm systems and whatever else one can imagine but that is just my view. For some people, a secure complex provides the security that they need.

I have chosen to not be afraid here but at the same time I am not stupid or naive and I do keep my wits about me. So I adapt by keeping my windows closed in the car when I stop at a red light, by not driving alone after dark, by storing my handbag under the seat in my car etc etc. 

Taking a decision to move to SA is a huge decision and I understand that you are battling with this. You must however make your own decision. Everyone has different experiences here and noone can guarantee that crime will not happen, wherever you decide to settle. If your friends are living a wonderful life in Cape Town then that is great and you should listen to what they have to say. But their life is not your life and however nice it sounds you may end up with a totally different experience, good or bad.

All I can say is that for us, life is very good here. We love it and I have never regretted my decision.


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## nkiera (Apr 21, 2013)

Saartjie said:


> Hi Nkiera, I am one of those who is totally happy with my decision to move to SA. I have been here since August 2010 and so far (apart from my constant hassle with Home Affairs) I am truly very happy with our move. I gave birth to our first child less than two months after we arrived here so my daughter is now 2 and a half. We previoulsy spent 12 years in the UK and although most of our time there was great, we made a decision that we did not want to bring up our child there. This was due to many reasons but mainly because none of us had family there and also we felt that our standard of living would be much improved in SA which in the end would benefit our daughter. I think we are able to give our daughter a much better start in life here and she seems to be thriving. We love the fact that she can see her grandparents all the time and that we can spend most of our free time out doors due to the great weather. We can afford to send her to a good Montessori school and have already secured her a place in her future school as well, something which we probably would not have been able to do in the UK.
> 
> I have a personal interest in politics and follow all events closely in SA. Therefore, I know that the future here can be very different and we do have an exit plan should it be necessary for us to leave. My daughTer has dual citizenship (SA and Swedish) and my husband is eligible for a Swedish passport should we return to my home country. This does not mean that we are planning to leave, we are just leaving a door open just in case. Given the current economic climate, it makes sense to have options, wherever you are in the world.
> 
> ...


Saartjie

Thank you so much you have restored my enthusiasm and encouraged me to keep moving forwards with this process. We know that it is going to take a good deal of time to sort out (possibly up to 3 years before we would physically live in Cape Town) but I want to get the process as far as I can before it's in the hands of Home affairs. We need to sort out a lot of financial stuff in the Uk etc. I think a lot can change in that time either for better or downhill and I will remain as focused on moving as possible but keeping in mind it may not be an option for us in the end. I will however remain on this forum as it's been a fantastic help and I hope will continue to keep me going!! thanks again


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## Jambot (Oct 10, 2012)

Hi Nkiera

I am British born but have lived in SA since I was 2(now 43) and consider it home. We live in CT in the Southern Suburbs. Our 8 year old daughter goes to an excellent private school - costs us R4200 p.m, which is a bargain by international standards. We could also have chosen to send her to one of a number of good government schools in our area for less than half the price. 
To be honest with you, we have decided that in the next few years we have decided to move to France. Although all our family is here and it breaks my heart to make the decision, I have basically lost hope that the government is at all capable of preventing us from going down a slippery slope. And with the ANC not going anywhere soon and corruption and incompetence rife, I don't feel optimistic that SA is the best place for my daughter in ten years time when she leaves school.
With regards crime. We sold our free-standing home and moved into a gated complex because of crime in our area. We just didn't feel relaxed, especially at night. We now are much happier. Crime is a daily problem, but it still doesn't stop us walking around our neighbourhood or in the forest. We picnic on the beach and explore all CT has to offer, which is a lot, but you do become more vigilant and suspicious of strangers.
If I were you, I would come live her until the children leave school( they will receive an excellent, well rounded education), live a wonderful life in gorgeous CT, but consider that you children's long term future may not be in SA. I hope I have not sounded too negative. I love my country and sincerely pray that it will prosper and overcome its problems, but I'm also being realistic and my husband ultimately have to consider our daughter's long term future.
All the best with your decision.


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## nkiera (Apr 21, 2013)

Jambot said:


> Hi Nkiera
> 
> I am British born but have lived in SA since I was 2(now 43) and consider it home. We live in CT in the Southern Suburbs. Our 8 year old daughter goes to an excellent private school - costs us R4200 p.m, which is a bargain by international standards. We could also have chosen to send her to one of a number of good government schools in our area for less than half the price.
> To be honest with you, we have decided that in the next few years we have decided to move to France. Although all our family is here and it breaks my heart to make the decision, I have basically lost hope that the government is at all capable of preventing us from going down a slippery slope. And with the ANC not going anywhere soon and corruption and incompetence rife, I don't feel optimistic that SA is the best place for my daughter in ten years time when she leaves school.
> ...


Thank you Jambot for giving me a different perspective. Its so difficult isn't it when you have to consider your children's future. If it was just my husband and I we wold not be having any qualms as we already have our careers and life set up but when you have to think what effect your decision will have on your children 20, 30, even 50 years later it becomes a mountain of issues. I had considered the idea of moving whilst the children are at school with the plan that they would then do their university time either in England or Ireland as they have dual atonality and the way I see it it would be no different to them being away from home even if we did not move as I remember being at Uni and rarely going home (albeit unless I needed money!!).

We know it is going to be at least 2 years before we have to make a definite decision and so we are just monitoring the political and economic climate as we go through the process. I have downloaded news 24 on my phone and watch ENCA news through sky here in the UK to get an idea of whats happening over there.

Kind regards
Nkiera


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## Jambot (Oct 10, 2012)

We have a similar but different dilemma in choosing to move to France. My daughter's happiness is my first priority and I'm stressing about what school to send her to. All I can say to you is that most SA kids have a great school experience. There's still quite a bit of discipline in the classroom and manners are expected, but at the same time there's lots of school spirit, sports and after school activities. Academics is important but it's not the be all and end all. Obviously Cape Town has so much to offer, having the mountain and sea in close proximity. It's a fantastic city and very close to my heart.
Also take a look at the Southern Suburbs of Cape Town. Claremont, Kenilworth, Rondebosch and Constantia. More English than the Northern Suburbs and has some excellent schools but State and Private.
Can I suggest that you not become too obsessed with some of the daily news websites. I've stopped looking at them on a daily basis as it all seemed so negative. And because most of the stories are short news articles and don't really analyse the deeper aspects of the story. I suggest you also look at a website called The Daily Maverick. More in depth analysis that gives you a more rounded perspective on the issues of the day.
If you would like more info on schools, areas etc, feel free to ask. Louise


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## pomE (Oct 30, 2012)

I think you answer your questions yourself in the last few posts- go live and enjoy all that Cape Town has to offer while your children are young- they will benefit far more at this age than they will for eg in the UK with the outdoors lifestyle. When they are of school leaving age, re-evaluate then. 

What is most important in my opinion is that up until they are of school leaving age, they will develop a good understanding of what is sadly lacking in the young minds of many kinds in the UK, and that is respect. 

I see kids as young as 6 here in the UK displaying all the traits of disrespect for parents, teachers, authority etc etc which goes on to breed “Yoof”, culture. My wife is South African, and she is appalled at the lack of respect kids show over here in the UK. South Africans seem to be brought up with a much better ideology as to what is right and wrong, and most SA kids would never dare exhibit the kind of behaviour that is commonly seen by their English counterparts here. 

I miss Cape Town enormously, but I don’t miss the idiots who govern everyday life there. That in itself is far scarier than any crime statistic in my opinion. 

We may end up back there in the near future, we may not. Let’s see if we manage to survive another UK Winter!


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## nkiera (Apr 21, 2013)

Jambot & PomE

thank you both for your very helpful advice, I believe we will still try and obtain employment in SA if we can and move with a view to re evaluating when the children are older. Jambot (Louise) Thank you for you kind offer for further help and info and if you don't mind I may take you up on that offer a little further down the process. It is going to take us at least 12 months to get our academic transcripts accredited and register with the various Medical agencies to be able to even start looking for posts in SA.

Thanks again for your advice
nkiera


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## MissGlobal (Aug 4, 2012)

Nkiera - I think you guys will be fine. Like any international move - be cautious . Do your homework and make sure you have an exit strategy. After all - even if everything is fine - your heart may not want to stay here. You never know when you make a move like this.


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## Verdande (Apr 30, 2013)

My 2 cents worth - not that I know much about South Africa, but I do know what it is like to be moved as a child because one parent wanted to emigrate. As a child I was uprooted from the UK to the US and then as an adult moved back to an EU country. 
Some children adapt fast, some do not. The main thing I believe is to ask yourself as a responsible parent - will my children be going through this upheaval (because that is what it is - leaving friends, schools etc) to enjoy a much better, safer life with more future opportunities, or not? The fact that you mention your husband saying they may move from SA as adults anyway, seems strange to me. If the idea is to move to SA to give your whole family (not just one person) a better life, then that makes sense. If the move is not for the best of all, well that is another situation. The fact that his oldest daughter moved to Sweden is - IMHO- not relevant. Sweden is much easier and cheaper to get to from the UK, and is a very safe and non corrupt society. Think carefully of your childrens future and good luck whatever you choose.


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## nkiera (Apr 21, 2013)

Verdande said:


> My 2 cents worth - not that I know much about South Africa, but I do know what it is like to be moved as a child because one parent wanted to emigrate. As a child I was uprooted from the UK to the US and then as an adult moved back to an EU country.
> Some children adapt fast, some do not. The main thing I believe is to ask yourself as a responsible parent - will my children be going through this upheaval (because that is what it is - leaving friends, schools etc) to enjoy a much better, safer life with more future opportunities, or not? The fact that you mention your husband saying they may move from SA as adults anyway, seems strange to me. If the idea is to move to SA to give your whole family (not just one person) a better life, then that makes sense. If the move is not for the best of all, well that is another situation. The fact that his oldest daughter moved to Sweden is - IMHO- not relevant. Sweden is much easier and cheaper to get to from the UK, and is a very safe and non corrupt society. Think carefully of your childrens future and good luck whatever you choose.


Verdande

The move to south africa would give our children a great childhood and better than they have in the UK. It would give me and my husband a much better retirement life but not necessarily the best life for our children as adults. I don't think any country can give a whole family everything. The comment about children moving is a valid one because no matter where you live there is a chance children will want to live their lives in a different country and will move. Leaving you as the parents to continue your life where you are! That means we need to choose the country that suits us best long term and the children shorter term. If we stay in the UK my husbands has to work until he is 77 years old before he can afford to retire. This is due to Previous divorce arrangements and the tax system and other things in the UK. If we move to SA as our friend has done his quality of life will be better due to less time having to work, our money going further and being in a country where it is warm and more access to activities. We have very little family life here.

The point I make about Sweden is that children as adults can move anywhere in the world no matter where you bring them up..and my husbands daughter is now talking about moving to Vietnam!! Not so cosy as Sweden! I believe you have to put your children first until they are adults then they make their own decisions. My husband and I are then left to get on with our lives after they have long left home I don't want to be sat in the UK wishing I was somewhere else while my elderly husband carries on working until he drops dead to pay for us to have a life. He got a crap deal in a divorce settlement and is paying for it dearly we need to make the most of a bad job.

Thank you for your views on children who have moved around though I do feel it is an element we need to consider

nkiera


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## Jem62 (Jul 25, 2012)

Nkiera, I have two older children ages 21 and 19 but also have a nine year old from the same marraige. The two older ones remained in the UK to finish their university studies, they've made their own choices and I am pleased with it. Yours may well do the same when the time comes and attend Univ in the UK. They will be eligible for student loans as UK passport holders. My younger one can't stop smilling, his life has exploded into so many activities and social events with his cousins and other friends. The quality of life for children in CT is unmatchable. In terms of quality of life for those retired or near retired, SARS does not tax retirement income, unlike in the UK. The advantages gained by a retirement income in sterling is very powerful and appears to be getting better as I write.


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## arking (Jan 20, 2014)

Hi 
I was wondering if you had made a decision about moving to SA. I moved to the UK travelling when I was 24 and after 15 years and 3 young kids 8,6 and 2 my hubby and I have decided to return to South Africa 

Yes I do worry about the crime, but I know that my family in Johanessburg are happy and their kids have a great quality of life. I also know of people who have returned from the US. My mother in law lives alone in a stand alone house with no alarms and she says she feels fine.

I lived in SA in 2010 for almost a year and to be honest I had never felt happier. Yes there is crime and service delivery is poor compared to the UK, corruption,strikes etc featured heavily in the news. But we were happy unfortunately my hubby couldn't find work and we were forced to return to the UK. South Africa as come a long way from the civil unrest it endured in the 80s. It has a long way to go but it is moving and I for one am positive that it is moving in the right direction. Many people sad years ago that it word burn but its still going forward.
We all think about our children's future which is important, but the question is will you be happy? My children are going to find suitable paths to their lives we might be alone here in the UK. Even after 15 years here I have never felt like this is home and I can't get used to the insular society nor the weather and I would hate to be alone here in retirement. My children can always come back here to study if they like.
I am looking forward to returning before the end of the year.


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