# Codice Fiscale/Permesso Question



## editordennis (Jun 18, 2016)

My wife and I are retiring to Vicenza in September. One of the first things we have to do is obtain the codice fiscale in order to be able to rent a place to live. The next most important task is the permesso di soggiorno. We know we need to go to the Questura to do this; my question is this: Since my wife and I are both American pensioners, living on American Social Security and pensions from our work, what documents will the Questura accept? What we have are financial statements in English with figures in American dollars. I'm presuming that this will be confusing to the authorities and will cause us delays in getting the codice fiscale and permesso issue. Anyone else have any experience or advice in this area? Thank you so much if you do.


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

Getting a _codice fiscale_ is not a problem. Practically everybody with a pulse can get one of those. You just stop by the Agenzia delle Entrate office with ID, and that should be that.

To apply for a PdS you'll actually need to go to the Post Office (with "Sportello Amico" service), not the questura, if you're both Elective Residents. (If one of you is an Italian citizen then the questura is available for the other, but then your income verification question at least doesn't make as much sense.) Sure, try starting with the English language income/wealth documents if they're required, but be prepared to resubmit with Italian translations.

If your first point of entry into the Schengen Area is not Italy, and you do not obtain Italian stamps in your passports, then yes, a stop by the questura will be required within 8 days of arrival to get a "dichiarazione di presenza." But you don't need a codice fiscale or income documents for that.


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## editordennis (Jun 18, 2016)

Thank you. Happy to hear I don't have to deal with the questura. My Italian friends there seem to feel it's inevitable, but since we a) are arriving directly in Italy and b) both of us are U.S. citizens, looks like we can dodge that unpleasant experience. I was thinking of getting a translation done for the docs anyway, so hopefully it will be relatively painless. We appreciate your response. Thanks.


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

Since you didn't mention it, I have to raise a painful question: have you obtained the necessary visa yet? From your description, it sounds like your only visa option is "Elective Residency" - without such a visa, you cannot remain in Italy for more than 90 days out of any 180 day period. A visa lets you _enter_ Italy, the PdiS lets you _stay_ in Italy. You cannot obtain a PdiS unless you first have a valid visa.

ER visa requirements are quite stiff, beginning with somewhere in the neighborhood of €6,000 - €8,000 per month guaranteed income for a couple (generally, social security pensions, interest bearing bonds, etc.)

Start here Il visto per l'Italia for basic info and then contact the consulate which serves your current legal residence.


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## editordennis (Jun 18, 2016)

I have not got a visa as yet, no. With about two and a half months to go, is that even workable?


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## editordennis (Jun 18, 2016)

Based on what I read at the Ambasciata d'Italia site, without a signed contract of residence I can't qualify for a visa. That is why I need to get the codice fiscale upon arrival - does one not cancel out the other? Can a visa be obtained AFTER arrival in Italy? I can provide the fiscal support documents and all the rest, but I won't have a signed contract of residence before I get the codice fiscale so apparently I can't get the visa, etc. etc. etc.


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## editordennis (Jun 18, 2016)

They honestly expect retirees to be clearing 6,000 to 8,000 Euros per month?! Who makes that kind of money in Italy to start with?


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## BBCWatcher (Dec 28, 2012)

editordennis said:


> They honestly expect retirees to be clearing 6,000 to 8,000 Euros per month?!


At least that, as an opening bid, yes.



> Who makes that kind of money in Italy to start with?


Not too many people, _and that's precisely the point_. In principle, Italy welcomes nonworking, insured, upstanding foreigners with legal, reliable, and ample passive income (and/or the wealth equivalent).

I'm surprised so many people seem to find this arrangement surprising. Italy is a lovely place to retire, and much of the world appreciates that fact. Ergo, Italy charges a certain price. Not too many people can afford new Ferrari automobiles either, but the company is doing quite well, and the price is the price. If you cannot afford one, then you'll have to enjoy your Ferrari experience in other ways. You can buy a Ferrari keychain, for example, just as you can visit Italy as a tourist and (generally) stay for up to 90 days (counting the whole Schengen Area). Italy picks only the cream of Elective Resident applicants _because it can_. (And why not?) This really is not a difficult concept.


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## accbgb (Sep 23, 2009)

editordennis said:


> They honestly expect retirees to be clearing 6,000 to 8,000 Euros per month?! Who makes that kind of money in Italy to start with?


Editordennis, once again, my favorite question: does either of you have any Italian blood? If yes, then there may be the possibility of Italian citizenship jure/jus sanguinis - by blood right. With citizenship all your visa worries would disappear.


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