# Thick walls



## Navas (Sep 2, 2012)

Our house is one that had been added to over time, with the last additions to its overall size in 1961, as far as we're aware. The oldest part of the house has walls over two feet thick, making it feel noticeably warmer at this time of the year than in the more modern part. I have no idea how old the original bits might be as we only have information on it going back to 1941. Does anyone have any idea how long ago they stopped building houses with such thick walls?


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

Well the 60's would coincide with the arrival of mass tourism and the building of coastal hotels. This would have led to bricks, cement powder and other modern buildng materials being widely available and cheaper. Crucially the key would be availability of transport to our rural area and then onward distribution.

I am doing a project documenting older buildings in our area but limited to those uninhabited and decaying. I have been shocked at how quickly an older building with a roof but not cared for becomes just a pile of rubble. The worst example has gone from a house to rubble in nine years - the highest part left is now just over two metres high.

The old buildings are actually a testament to building with very little cash but plenty of co operation. No foundations but if you are lucky the chosen site had a rocky base. Then the 2 foot walls are just gathered rocks held in place with cob (usually without organic material). The central space was then just filled in with rocks that weren't good for building the walls. In order to save on effort, areas between the corners of rooms were often hollow. Good insulation. I have seen what look like substantial two foot thick walls that are actually incredibly thin- around 10 cm. One outer wall and one inner wall. When you come to attach something to the wall the drill just goes straight through. 

The newest new house, using the old techniques, that I have found was constructed in 1948. There may well be newer ones. I believe a lot of the houses around here were put up when Franco turned campo folk away from the cities as there weren't enough jobs and said you can have some land and grow grain for bread, a few chickens , a pig and a few olive trees (usually around the "field" perimeters). Maybe the historians on the forum can shed some light on when that happened?

Just a thought but your newer part- is it constructed using bricks or breeze blocks. Breeze blocks aren't particularly good insulation. Also what thickness is it? I am guessing single skin and 13 or so cm including outer and inner wall finishes. There are ways of improving the insulation if it is a problem going forward. 

One last point is that in rural areas, Spaniards are very trade orientated. Although things are changing, the only exception is that _every_ man is an expert builder. As a result you can see evidence everywhere of constructions erected without a plumb bob or a spirit level!


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## Navas (Sep 2, 2012)

The house is a little 'quirky' in its construction of the more modern part. There seems to be some sort of concrete (?) frame with a thin panel of about the thickness you describe filling in the gaps. As we haven't drilled into those walls yet, we have no idea what they're made of.
Because of his work, David knows a lot about the thermal properties of materials and about insulation but we're having trouble actually finding the materials we need to improve the situation - stuff that would be relatively easy to obtain in the UK. We would like to improve it by adding panels of insulation direct to the surface of the walls and the upstairs ceilings. We know where to add insulation and whether inside or outside but the only problem is sourcing a suitable product. Do you know of any good suppliers? We've tried Leroy Merlin but nothing seemed to fit the bill.
I find the history of the area really interesting and would love to learn more. I'd be interested in hearing more about your project.


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## olivefarmer (Oct 16, 2012)

Sourcing materials. 

You could try the builders merchants at Iznajar on the left over the bridge in direction Rute. They wont necessarily have it in stock but will have catalogues. Plus transport will be easier. They deliver for a small fee. 

A much better place for materials if you want to look at it and transport your self is an outlet that is part of leroy merlin in malaga. Brico depot (or brico mart) . It is hard to get at but dead easy to see. Between Ikea and leroy and mercadona in malaga. 

Project? Could be a rest of life job! I am doing an Ebook in conjunction with a 13 year old Spanish friends son. Good fun and helps with my Spanish.


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## fergie (Oct 4, 2010)

Navas said:


> The house is a little 'quirky' in its construction of the more modern part. There seems to be some sort of concrete (?) frame with a thin panel of about the thickness you describe filling in the gaps. As we haven't drilled into those walls yet, we have no idea what they're made of.
> Because of his work, David knows a lot about the thermal properties of materials and about insulation but we're having trouble actually finding the materials we need to improve the situation - stuff that would be relatively easy to obtain in the UK. We would like to improve it by adding panels of insulation direct to the surface of the walls and the upstairs ceilings. We know where to add insulation and whether inside or outside but the only problem is sourcing a suitable product. Do you know of any good suppliers? We've tried Leroy Merlin but nothing seemed to fit the bill.
> I find the history of the area really interesting and would love to learn more. I'd be interested in hearing more about your project.


There is a British building supplies place called AIM, the nearest one to you is in Malaga, their website is Abbs.es
They seem to supply a lot of very useful things, and if they don't have what you want 'in stock' they can probably order it for you. It may be worth contacting them with your enqiry of the kind of things you need.🛠


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## Navas (Sep 2, 2012)

Thank you olivefarmer and fergie. We'll investigate those places as soon as possible.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

olivefarmer said:


> Project? Could be a rest of life job! I am doing an Ebook in conjunction with a 13 year old Spanish friends son. Good fun and helps with my Spanish.


What a great project!


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## carquinyoli (Jan 5, 2016)

olivefarmer said:


> Well the 60's would coincide with the arrival of mass tourism and the building of coastal hotels. This would have led to bricks, cement powder and other modern buildng materials being widely available and cheaper. Crucially the key would be availability of transport to our rural area and then onward distribution.


Sure, many people migrated to North Península or to Germany, France or Switzerland, and arranged their old houses thinking about their retirement not always with the most accurate materials and criteria. During El desarrollismo (1950-1980 mostly ), the diffusion of ladrillo perforado, uralita (asbestos sheet) and constructive aberrations arising therefrom was habitual throughout the country. For exemple, this gave name to these kind of phenomenon in Galicia: Feísmo Gallego.

It seems that you live in an area of Andalucia where old walls were built of rock filled with escombros (demolitions). As you say very aptly "The old buildings are actually a testament to building with very little cash but plenty of co operation", and I add: "using materials that were in the vicinity" .

The closer the house gets to the Guadalquivir river, clayey zone, the more likely it is that the walls was built of tapial. Exceptionally, the richest architecture of the zone of muslim influence was of bare brick (mozárabe, for example)

There are stone walls in area near the sierras. Granite to the north of the Guadalquivir river and limestone in the southern part. Slate in mountains of Cádiz and Sierra Nevada forming an island. The old Córdoba and even the Alhambra in Granada were mostly built of tapial.

An advice: Cement plaster is harmful to the tapial because it forms an impermeable layer and the earth gets wet. The best is the traditional lime stucco, breathable. Carefully, it can last for centuries.


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Navas said:


> The house is a little 'quirky' in its construction of the more modern part. There seems to be some sort of concrete (?) frame with a thin panel of about the thickness you describe filling in the gaps. As we haven't drilled into those walls yet, we have no idea what they're made of.
> Because of his work, David knows a lot about the thermal properties of materials and about insulation but we're having trouble actually finding the materials we need to improve the situation - stuff that would be relatively easy to obtain in the UK. We would like to improve it by adding panels of insulation direct to the surface of the walls and the upstairs ceilings. We know where to add insulation and whether inside or outside but the only problem is sourcing a suitable product. Do you know of any good suppliers? We've tried Leroy Merlin but nothing seemed to fit the bill.
> I find the history of the area really interesting and would love to learn more. I'd be interested in hearing more about your project.


Be very careful. If the house is as old as I suspect then it won't have any damp proof membrane and may well be rendered with a type of lime putty.

This needs to breathe! If you start insulating and then plastering, you're stopping the wall from breathing and may then have a damp issue.


What is normally done is to put up a 'camra' wall. That is, a thin wall leaving a gap behind. This can then be insulated and rendered in the usual way.


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## Navas (Sep 2, 2012)

Thank you carquinyoli and snikpoh! That's very useful information. It's giving us lots to ponder on!


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## carquinyoli (Jan 5, 2016)

carquinyoli said:


> Exceptionally, the richest architecture of the zone of muslim influence was of bare brick (mozárabe, for example)


Not mozárabe, tontol'haba, *mudéjar.*


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