# sites for renting apartments/houses



## woof (Jan 21, 2008)

Hi!

Currently i am in the recruiting process for a couple of
jobs in Spain. While doing some search with google
efficiently results in detailed overviews on the local
tax situation (nice to see that EU inward expats qualify
for a 25% flat income tax for about 5 years , but shocking
high up to 80% taxes on heirship and gifts - PLUS taxes 
in your home country...), overviews on buying power, 
social security and health insurance and so on, i had so far 
no success with searching 

*sites for long term rentals of apartments or houses *.

Especially with the Barcelona region, which would be my 
personal favourite, the only result one gets are thousand 
of sites renting apartments to tourists.

Any recommendations? 
Thanks!!!


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

woof said:


> Hi!
> Currently i am in the recruiting process for a couple of
> jobs in Spain. While doing some search with google
> efficiently results in detailed overviews on the local
> ...


Hi woof

A bit of what you say above is not actually quite right, not sure where you researched it from.

Firstly, you dont have to pay taxes in your home country if there is a dual taxation treaty, and that applies to most eu countries. IHT (heirship) is no where near 80%, the highest rate is around 34% and there is talk of it being done away with altogether in some regions (watch for pigs flying). If you are a surviving resident spouse there are circumstances when the IHT is reduced by up to 95%. 

I know nothing about a 25% flat tax rate, but not sure why anyone would be happy with that anyway as income tax here starts at 15% and there are reasonable tax free allowances. 

What do you want to know about health insurance?


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## woof (Jan 21, 2008)

Hi Stravinsky,

thank you so much for helping with my question of searching websites with apartments for long term rental! 
Astonishingly not all EU countries have dual taxation treaties with Spain, and those treaties closed do not cover all areas of taxation. Just look to not the smallest countries in the EU, Germany. They do not have such a dual taxation treaty at all.

You are definately wrong with the height of the IHT. First they get you as soon as you stay more than 183days/year in Spain and if they should get you withholding taxes they can fine you 20% extra tax. Anyway, read my lips - I pointed out that IHT can be "*up to 80%*". 
Let me demonstrate this with a realistic example: You receive an apartment from a friend by his last will in your home country, worth 400.000€. As result you have no tax exempt amount, which is not reasonable but ridiculously low 15.000€ in other cases thus this does not make a difference. *In other countries the tax exempt amount with heirship can be 15 fold this amount.* But back to the example. Above 398.777,54€ *IHT rate is 29,75 % *and the *multiplier from tax class IV is 2,0* --> so you quickly end up with *60% heirship* (§ 21 of the tax law).  Assuming one already owns an apartment or other values anywhere in the world, the tax rises even further, but most likely you anyway have no other option than selling the apartment for paying the taxes. 

One must keep in mind that Spain was a *socialistic country for decades*. In contrast to other countries where heirship is ment to care for the recepient, Spain 's *political intention is to take away this value from you * and to redistribute it to society. 


*If you know nothing about a 25% flat tax rate, than you do not know §9 of law 62/2003* dated Dec. 30 2003. It offers inward expats the option to choose between limited (but no allowances) and unlimited taxation. Yes, income tax starts with 15% but it goes up to 48%. Already from 80.000€/year you can save up to 5000€ taxes.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

woof said:


> Hi Stravinsky,
> 
> thank you so much for helping with my question of searching websites with apartments for long term rental!
> Astonishingly not all EU countries have dual taxation treaties with Spain, and those treaties closed do not cover all areas of taxation. Just look to not the smallest countries in the EU, Germany. They do not have such a dual taxation treaty at all.
> ...


Thanks for your input.

All I can tell you is that after years of researching the internet, getting advice from tax advisors, advice from a tax specialist gestoria here in Spain, speaking to Germans, French, English, Dutch Expats, and living here in Spain ....... what I posted above is correct according to all.

Please point me to details about a tax multiplier, as I know people here who's spouses have passed away and no such multiplier has been applied or mentioned and I'm eager to see what this is as even the tax books I have mention nothing of this.

If you inherit as a non spanish or spanish resident you cannot sell the apartment, as you suggest, to pay the tax. It is not allowed here in Spain to do so and you have to raise the funds to pay the IHT to release the apartment. A good option is to take out life insurance to cover this. A surviving spouse or child who continues to live in Spain after a bereavement can pay very little in IHT. Mortgages are deductable also, and if the apartment is in joint names then the liability can be reduced even further.

As far as I am aware there has been a tax treaty between Spain and Germany since 1968. There are around 70 treaties signed by Spain with other countries

For sure there is the 180 day rule, but if you are caught witholding taxes then, like any other country, you deserve to be fined!

So what you are saying seems to differ from what tax experts and people on the ground with experience say, but I'm certainly always willing to learn so look forward to seeing the details


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## woof (Jan 21, 2008)

The answers you get always depend on the questions you ask!

Again - read my lips! *My example was not about spouses passing away but a friend*, thus not a relative. Spouses fall under tax class II, as children above 21 do. Up to a personal capital of 402.678,11€ the factor applicable is 1,00, but as soon as this amounts raises to 4.020.770,98€ they also face a factor of 1,2. (§21 tax law).
Ofcourse it's not about immediately selling real estate to cover the tax load - as long that's not completed you're not the owner who would have the right to do that, i left out the trival step of a bridging financial operation.
And the timepoint with regard to the spanish german tax treaty is correct, Jan. 20th as far as i found out, but nothing has moved for 40 years and it just did not cover heirship.


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## Stravinsky (Aug 12, 2007)

woof said:


> The answers you get always depend on the questions you ask!
> 
> Again - read my lips! *My example was not about spouses passing away but a friend*, thus not a relative. Spouses fall under tax class II, as children above 21 do. Up to a personal capital of 402.678,11€ the factor applicable is 1,00, but as soon as this amounts raises to 4.020.770,98€ they also face a factor of 1,2. (§21 tax law).
> Ofcourse it's not about immediately selling real estate to cover the tax load - as long that's not completed you're not the owner who would have the right to do that, i left out the trival step of a bridging financial operation.
> And the timepoint with regard to the spanish german tax treaty is correct, Jan. 20th as far as i found out, but nothing has moved for 40 years and it just did not cover heirship.


Can I just say .... I cant read your lips for obvious reasons, its an unfortunate turn of phrase in the UK often used in an aggressive way, which I'm sure is not your intention 

Yes I see your example, but your original post just stated inheritence tax is up to 80%, and you have to remember there are a lot of people in different situations reading this forum and that would probably cause some to have a heart attack. 

I'm not sure that any of the tax treaties address heirship .... its a really bad tax for people who live here and as you say can be terribly cash draining. Its designed to favour families, hence why in the past so many homes have passed down through families from generation to generation, as then there is hardly any inheritence tax involved. They dont cater for foreigners I'm afraid and thats why we are well and truly stuffed. There are ways and means of accomodating it though

I'll have to research the factoring that you mention as it is news to me


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