# Help me PICK!



## 1700800 (Sep 3, 2018)

**I'm reading all the old posts, too, but I want to talk to some live people, too! 

Hola, soon-to-be neighbors!

My boys and I are moving to Mexico. I work from home and recently started homeschooling them, and we decided it would be a great time to travel!

I'm having trouble deciding where to go and I'm hoping you can throw a few suggestions towards me to research. 

I live a block from the beach in Florida right now. I love the water and everything boating, but I'm realizing that by only looking at places like PV, I'm going to miss out on more of the real culture and beauty of Mexico, so I'm open...but if you know of great boating towns, do let me know! Haha! 

Important things

Walkable
We won't have a car. We already walk 4 miles a day just to get our bodies moving, so we really don't mind walking. We are young and healthy, and don't mind a few hills...but, *we eat out a lot and will need a lot of nearby food options*/taco stands within walking...safety while walking is a no-brainer.

Affordable
PV seems to be as expensive as the US! So, somewhere cheaper than there!

Quiet
I'm an editor and I meditate a lot. I know Mexico is known for parties, and I don't mind them, but I don't want to have to listen to one every night, for sure!

Great Wifi
I need solid wifi 24/7

Easy to Travel
We would like to be somewhere we could easily take weekend trips via bus to other awesome places. Again, no vehicle. An airport not horribly far would be nice as well.

As long as it's a town with lots of pools, I'll be interested! Give me some ideas, thank you so much!!


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

You seem to be describing the towns of Chapala or Ajijic at Lake Chapala, Jalisco....Since you plan to be there longer than a tourist permit allows are you getting A Temporary Visa or a Permanent Visa? If so you should visit the Mexican Consulate closest to your home in Florida to start the process...You also state it is you and two boys, where is the father? You better check to see if you need a letter of permission from him for the kids to enter Mexico without both parents...Bye the way I know of no Mexican town with lots of public pools, there may be a resort with mineral baths along the lake...


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

chicois8 said:


> You seem to be describing the towns of Chapala or Ajijic at Lake Chapala, Jalisco....Since you plan to be there longer than a tourist permit allows are you getting A Temporary Visa or a Permanent Visa? If so you should visit the Mexican Consulate closest to your home in Florida to start the process...You also state it is you and two boys, where is the father? You better check to see if you need a letter of permission from him for the kids to enter Mexico without both parents...Bye the way I know of no Mexican town with lots of public pools, there may be a resort with mineral baths along the lake...


There are lots of places with natural hot water for soaking in the area around Guadalajara. In the canyon northeast of town, there are three pools, called Pilitas, that a lot of friends of mine hike to and from. On the west side of town in the Bosque La Primavera there is a stream called Agua Brava that is popular for soaking in. Both those are free of cost in public parkland. There is a "Balneario" in San Juan Cosala on Lake Chapala near Ajijic. It is a commercial establishment with hot water and/or mud baths. I have never been but it is popular. There are also public swimming pools in Guadalajara. I think they require a modest subscription fee.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Yes, a 55 mile long lake (Lake Chapala) ought to do the trick for water. If I were thinking about boating, a Hobie Cat would be my choice.
If you want to find less expensive housing, don't bother with Ajijic. Head for Chapala or some of the other lakeside towns. In Chapala itself, there is plenty of walking available, dozens of eateries and good shopping.
Depending on where you are, there's a new fiber optic service that will provide reliable, fast internet in some areas soon. Otherwise...there's Telmex; ho hum.
If you're planning to work for a U.S. company, you should check with them about whether they'll keep you on once you move to Mexico. There are reports of some companies worrying about the security of their data and giving their people in Mexico the choice of moving back to the U.S. or being terminated. Best to know this first!

Chicois8 had some very good other tips.

Welcome and good luck!


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## JRinPV (Jul 2, 2012)

I have lived in PV for 35 years, so wonder what you think is expensive here? My 2bd apartment is 3,900 pesos - US$205 right now. I seldom eat out but when I do, I can spend 30-100 pesos.
Great walking town !


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

ReikiontheRun said:


> **I'm reading all the old posts, too, but I want to talk to some live people, too! ..........


What's in a name? "Reikiontherun" could suggest your motivations for moving to Mexico may be a tad impulsive...but what business is it of mine?
You haven't provided any information on the age of your boys - do you know if Mexico even allows home schooling?
Living at the coast in Florida, heat and humidity apparently aren't an issue. For the same reason, I can't imagine anyone emotionally attached to ocean-side living would be content in the Lake Chapala area, but that's just me. From the Guadalajara/Chapala area, the nearest ocean beaches are perhaps only a couple of hours' drive....or a 3-4 hour busride....away.
Want to be close to ocean beaches, plenty of restaurants, reasonably-priced real estate and monthly or annual rentals, a pretty good local bus/combi system, a sizeable english-speaking community for half the year and a few hundred year-rounders, a "real" Mexican small city, (as opposed to a ****** enclave), with virtually every amenity you might require, check out Zihuatanejo, Guerrero.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Just curious, Holy Mole: Do you have knowledge of the proportion of Mexican natives to Gringos in the Lake Chapala area? It's overwhelmingly a "real" Mexican area. 

An unofficial opinion on the home schooling issue: if the mom and her children aren't Mexican citizens, it's doubtful that the children would be subject to compulsory attendance at schools. But, best to get a legal opinion there if there's doubt.


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

lagoloo said:


> Just curious, Holy Mole: Do you have knowledge of the proportion of Mexican natives to Gringos in the Lake Chapala area? It's overwhelmingly a "real" Mexican area.
> 
> An unofficial opinion on the home schooling issue: if the mom and her children aren't Mexican citizens, it's doubtful that the children would be subject to compulsory attendance at schools. But, best to get a legal opinion there if there's doubt.


Many years ago I lived in California, near a part of Redwood City, California called Little Mexico. The main street was about 5 or 6 blocks of Middlefield Avenue where all the shops had a Mexican flavor. There were Mexican restaurants, Mexican bars, tortillerias. At night there were strolling mariachi bands. People on the street and in the shops spoke Spanish.

I don't know Ajijic well, I visit it less than once a year for an afternoon. But to me, it feels like the obverse of Little Mexico in Redwood City. All the shopkeepers seem to speak English, actually prefer English with people whose Spanish is not native. On the streets I hear lots of people speaking English. Many of the restaurants feel like they are aimed at people from north of the border. So, while it is undoubtedly true that the estadounidenses are nowhere near a majority of the population, they seem to have an outsized influence on the feel of the place. I don't know what it means to be a "real" Mexican area, but I would not pick Ajijic if I wanted to have learn Spanish to survive.

None of this applies to the rest of the towns around the lake. The nearby town of Chapala feels to me just like any other town. On the weekends it seems overrun with Tapatio/as (visitors from Guadalajara) but I don't feel much influence from north of the border types.

But, as I said, I am only an infrequent visitor to Lake Chapala and environs, so take my comments with a grain of salt.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Most of my memories of Ajijic were all the USA license plates, most from Texas...


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

The Texans must be in hiding, since I encounter very few of them.

I'll just conclude by saying that the reason there are so many expats there is that it's a beautiful setting with an unbeatable climate: a really fine place to live !


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## 1700800 (Sep 3, 2018)

Wow...I certainly wasn't expecting the responses I got. 

A tad impulsive? No. We have been talking about moving out of the country for the last two years. We were back and forth between a few places, including Costa Rica. We just decided for sure that it would be Mexico last month, so we are moving forward.

I'm aware of the different visas and that I will need to visit the consulate in Orlando before I go because I will be applying for temp res. I'm aware that I will be allowed to homeschool my children in Mexico. I'm certain my work will not dump me...I'm an independent contractor, anyway. But hey, thanks for the vote of confidence! Like I just got this wild hair up my you know what yesterday and decided I'd schlep my kids to another country, with no research done! Goodness!

I started looking at towns around Lake Chapala, but I noticed every time I would see a picture, there would be no boats in the water. Come to find out, there aren't many, and even if you do go out in a boat, you aren't swimming in that water...so, that kind of water isn't appealing to me. I want to boat, swim, dive, tube...not just have a view of it! 

Honestly, I just thought some people on here would be able to suggest a few places I might not have thought to look into...thanks for the Zihuatanejo suggestion...going to check it out now!


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

ReikiontheRun said:


> Wow...I certainly wasn't expecting the responses I got.
> 
> A tad impulsive? No. We have been talking about moving out of the country for the last two years. We were back and forth between a few places, including Costa Rica. We just decided for sure that it would be Mexico last month, so we are moving forward.
> 
> ...


Didn't mean to offend. I read too much into your on-line "handle". Sounds like you've done your research. Check out Zihua....and Ixtapa, only 7 or 8 km away. Lots of reasonable year-round rentals in both locations. And great beaches only a 5-10 minute bus/combi ride away.

ps You're right. Tubing, diving, swimming, and probably even boating, aren't part of the ex-pat Lake Chapala experience.


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

lagoloo said:


> Just curious, Holy Mole: Do you have knowledge of the proportion of Mexican natives to Gringos in the Lake Chapala area? It's overwhelmingly a "real" Mexican area.
> 
> An unofficial opinion on the home schooling issue: if the mom and her children aren't Mexican citizens, it's doubtful that the children would be subject to compulsory attendance at schools. But, best to get a legal opinion there if there's doubt.


I knew my comments would strike a nerve with Lake-Siders. I don't dispute that the Lake Chapala area is "really" Mexican. You've been there, so you know perfectly well of what I'm speaking. It's very popular with many ex-pats and thousands of seasonal visitors. Just hasn't been our cup of tea on the 2 or 3 short visits we've had. Benign, pleasant weather? You bet. Close to a huge, wonderful city? Yup. The lake? No thanks. For us, being on an unusable lake, hours from the coast, isn't where we'd want to be.
Now I've struck a few more nerves.


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## 1700800 (Sep 3, 2018)

HolyMole said:


> Didn't mean to offend. I read too much into your on-line "handle". Sounds like you've done your research. Check out Zihua....and Ixtapa, only 7 or 8 km away. Lots of reasonable year-round rentals in both locations. And great beaches only a 5-10 minute bus/combi ride away.
> 
> ps You're right. Tubing, diving, swimming, and probably even boating, aren't part of the ex-pat Lake Chapala experience.


No, no! None taken! It was just cracking me up!
The name is the name of a business I own...haha!

Thanks for the suggestion!


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Hole Mole: "ps You're right. Tubing, diving, swimming, and probably even boating, aren't part of the ex-pat Lake Chapala experience. "

To correct that one: There is a very active yacht club in Chapala. Most sailing and other boating is done in the deeper parts of the lake since it becomes very shallow near Ajijic and on West. There is an active kayaking group in Ajijic.

Some beach towns dump untreated sewage directly into the ocean, so there are some parts of the ocean beaches so polluted that you wouldn't want to put your body or that of your kids in it. That's something to check out.

Believe me, I'm not trying to "sell" my town. There are so many new arrivals from the States that the rental market is super tight and we're soon going to have WAY too many people here for my taste. If I could stand the heat and humidity, I'd be thinking of a small beach town, but that's not an option at this point. Every body is different, and mine is very unhappy when the temps hit 90 degrees with over 80 percent humidity.......most of the year. (I thoroughly enjoy our January trips to the coast.)


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

lagoloo said:


> Hole Mole: "ps You're right. Tubing, diving, swimming, and probably even boating, aren't part of the ex-pat Lake Chapala experience. "
> 
> To correct that one: There is a very active yacht club in Chapala. Most sailing and other boating is done in the deeper parts of the lake since it becomes very shallow near Ajijic and on West. There is an active kayaking group in Ajijic.
> 
> ...


I stand corrected on boating.....I did say "probably". We drove completely around the lake last time we were there and it looked deserted, boat-wise. I'm the last one to defend Mexico's (or any other nation's ) anti-pollution record. Coming from the country that reportedly has more lakes than the rest of the world combined....some of them still relatively pristine..... we were disappointed with Lake Chapala. 
I'll concede on another point: prior to our first visit to Lakeside, we anticipated finding " ****** Heaven" - and were surprised at how "Mexican" it is.
AND, I will also concede on the heat & humidity question, since our exposure to Mexican seaside weather has been limited to the late October - mid-April period. The OP lives on the coast in Florida, so she knows all about heat & humidity.


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## perropedorro (Mar 19, 2016)

Another option, if you're really hooked on the coast and water activities, is Barra de Navidad. I could imagine PV being like that decades ago. Small and laid-back with a few American expats and even more Euros. Great weather in December but like anywhere on the coast, hot/humid now. Another drawback is transportation: although it's only about 25 kms. from the Manzanillo airport, not very many flights go there, perhaps 3 or 4 weekly to the U.S. and not many more domestic ones. Getting a place for the winter shouldn't be a problem either, and it'll be much cheaper than PV.


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## JRinPV (Jul 2, 2012)

I have a buddy lives in Barra, he likes it, only disadvantage is it's a bit more open to weather events.
Personally I would never live in Guerrero, dodgy state, always has been.


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## 1700800 (Sep 3, 2018)

HolyMole said:


> I stand corrected on boating.....I did say "probably". We drove completely around the lake last time we were there and it looked deserted, boat-wise. I'm the last one to defend Mexico's (or any other nation's ) anti-pollution record. Coming from the country that reportedly has more lakes than the rest of the world combined....some of them still relatively pristine..... we were disappointed with Lake Chapala.
> I'll concede on another point: prior to our first visit to Lakeside, we anticipated finding " ****** Heaven" - and were surprised at how "Mexican" it is.
> AND, I will also concede on the heat & humidity question, since our exposure to Mexican seaside weather has been limited to the late October - mid-April period. The OP lives on the coast in Florida, so she knows all about heat & humidity.


I'm very familiar with that heat and humidity! 

I'm shocked...from everything I read about that area, I would expect "****** Heaven", too!


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## RVGRINGO (May 16, 2007)

Just what do you mean by "****** Heaven"? Lots of gringos, few gringos, no gringos except you?
Some places simply have too many of them, especially the tourist types. That is not 'living in Mexico'.
What are you actually looking for? Your initial list is both 'all inclusive' and vague on details.


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## 1700800 (Sep 3, 2018)

The area sounds like it would have too many gringos...I'd like to feel like I'm living in Mexico, not a cheaper US.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

****** Heaven it is not. At present, the powers that be seem to have made any money to maintain streets disappear and so, it's Pothole Heaven with no attempts being made to fix it. The rainy season is making it worse.
If you can handle the heat and humidity at the beaches, I suggest a beautiful small beach town about an hour drive North of Manzanillo: La ManzanillA. Somewhat artsy town. A small population, including some gringos and a very upscale hotel on the beach, but reasonable rents and facilities. Major shopping would be in Manzanillo, where just about everything is available. (I don't know about how good the internet connection is, though. ) 
It is Google-able with much information.


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

JRinPV said:


> I have a buddy lives in Barra, he likes it, only disadvantage is it's a bit more open to weather events.
> Personally I would never live in Guerrero, dodgy state, always has been.


"Dodgy" could be applied to every state in Mexico, amigo. I always felt "dodgy" driving through Michoacan, or Sinaloa, or Baja Norte, or Jalisco, or Coahilla or............


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## EmilyTravels (May 19, 2018)

HolyMole said:


> "Dodgy" could be applied to every state in Mexico, amigo. I always felt "dodgy" driving through Michoacan, or Sinaloa, or Baja Norte, or Jalisco, or Coahilla or............


_Every_ state in Mexico? Even the Yucatan state? I have never felt that it was the slightest bit dodgy.


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

EmilyTravels said:


> _Every_ state in Mexico? Even the Yucatan state? I have never felt that it was the slightest bit dodgy.


If you've found an oasis of calm and safety somewhere inside Mexico's pervasive (and, apparently, increasing) horror show of cartel-related mayhem, good on you. We've enjoyed walking in Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez, Culiacan, Matamoros, Ciudad Victoria, etc., and driven at night through Michoacan villages with roadblocks entering and exiting town, occupied by masked Auto Defensas armed men.....and came through without incident. Is every one of those areas "dodgy", by the generally-accepted definition of that word? You bet. 

Would we do it again? You bet.


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## ojosazules11 (Nov 3, 2013)

HolyMole said:


> Do you know if Mexico even allows home schooling?


Yes, Mexico does allow home-schooling. My daughter-in-law in Puebla has been home schooling their 7 year old daughter. There were several factors that influenced this decision, but the final straw was when the public school teacher in kindergarten scolded her mother because she had already taught her daughter to read. The teacher said children in kinder were not supposed to be reading yet and she thought it was a bad thing that she was academically ahead of the other children.


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## Meritorious-MasoMenos (Apr 17, 2014)

EmilyTravels said:


> _Every_ state in Mexico? Even the Yucatan state? I have never felt that it was the slightest bit dodgy.


You should pay more attention to the news. Unless Mexicans feel very comfortable with you, they will not relate bad news to outsiders, given their general innate courtesy.

"Narco-cartels dispute control of Yucatan and SE Mexico --

A new Stanford University report indicates that Yucatan figures among routes used by organized crime to transport drugs to the United States and Asia. At the same time, it is indicated that the Southeastern territories of Mexico are in dispute between the drug cartels that operate in the country.

The drugs arrive in Cancun by air from countries like Colombia and Venezuela, and later they are distributed by maritime and terrestrial routes in different points of the Southeast region. Yucatán is among the states along this route. Drugs then move to the north of the country to reach the United States and Asia."
Narco-cartels dispute control of Yucatan and SE Mexico – The Yucatan Times

I would be careful of driving too near dark-tinted SUVs on Yucatan roads.

To date, drug gangs have not started killing to dispute Yucatan routes, but all we "old Mexico hands" would have considered the Cancun drug violence unthinkable just five years ago. I still find it hard to wrap my head around such headlines,, from times 20 years when Cancun was safer than most U.S. beaches:

"Cancún: from tourist beach paradise to hotbed of Mexico's drug violence --

The murder of an alleged cartel boss in his hospital bed is the latest outrage in a resort city torn by trafficking and corruption.

The Playamed hospital is an unremarkable two-storey building on a quiet street lined with red-blossomed flame trees, just a few minutes’ drive from the white-sand beaches and all-inclusive resorts of Cancún’s hotel zone.

Recently, however, it was the setting for an incident underlining the relentless spread of Mexico’s drug war to cities previously best known as beach holiday destinations.

Four gunmen burst into a private room at the clinic last week, where they shot dead Alfonso Contreras Espinoza and his wife. Known as “El Poncho”, the murdered man was reputed to be the local boss for the Gulf cartel, and had been released from a local prison to receive treatment for a leg problem."

Narco-cartels dispute control of Yucatan and SE Mexico – The Yucatan Times


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## EmilyTravels (May 19, 2018)

Actually, I do pay pretty close attention to news of that area. We lived in Playa del Carmen for a year (2015), and I am well aware of how the drug cartel activity and related crime, murders, etc. has greatly increased in Q. Roo since then. That is one of the main reason we are not going back there at this time.

We will be in the small village of Chelem on the Gulf coast. I don't expect we'll have too many problems up there. Of course, we will be alert, but we don't do drugs and will not be hanging out with anyone connected to the cartels. Nor will we be driving anywhere.

It's a shame that you can hardly post on a forum anymore without getting a negative response. I don't live with my head in the sand or with rose-colored glasses on, but nor do I look for trouble everywhere I go. I still love Mexico and won't let the naysayers convince me otherwise. I am a practical person but still see the glass as half-full. 

P.S. I see that you are an expat in Thailand. Just a little curious what you are doing hanging out in a Mexico expat forum?


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## surabi (Jan 1, 2017)

anythg44 said:


> Wow...I certainly wasn't expecting the responses I got.
> 
> A tad impulsive? No. We have been talking about moving out of the country for the last two years. We were back and forth between a few places, including Costa Rica. We just decided for sure that it would be Mexico last month, so we are moving forward.
> 
> ...


Don't take it personally-you wouldn't believe how many people post on this forum and others in Mexico who DID just get the notion that they could up and move to Mexico and work here without doing any research or due diligence whatsoever, believe it or not


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## Huapango (Oct 7, 2018)

I live in an area not discussed much on this forum. It's safe. It's scenic. I drank water directly from a stream on a few occasions. People don't beg for money and I don't have to tell a guy not to wash my windows at every intersection (well, we don't have any stoplights).


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

Huapango said:


> I live in an area not discussed much on this forum. It's safe. It's scenic. I drank water directly from a stream on a few occasions. People don't beg for money and I don't have to tell a guy not to wash my windows at every intersection (well, we don't have any stoplights).


So, where is it?


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## Huapango (Oct 7, 2018)

My username is a hint. There are a few other gringos in the region (just a few), but my family is the only in my town/city that I know of. The only downside is the lack of food options.


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## HolyMole (Jan 3, 2009)

Huapango said:


> My username is a hint. There are a few other gringos in the region (just a few), but my family is the only in my town/city that I know of. The only downside is the lack of food options.


"Huapango" doesn't narrow it down much. Why the secrecy? Afraid of an influx of outsiders and.............."There goes the neighbourhood"?


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## MJD13 (Aug 11, 2014)

Try Alamos, Sonora. Authentic small colonial pueblo with a rich history. Known for architecture. About 350 pretty interesting ex-pats. Rated as 2nd most important Pueblo Magico. 8 hours back to border by car. Not on water but many compensating considerations, including cost of living. 

This site has pictures and info.

Alamos Realty – Alamos, Sonora, MX


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

MJD13 said:


> Try Alamos, Sonora. Authentic small colonial pueblo with a rich history. Known for architecture. About 350 pretty interesting ex-pats. Rated as 2nd most important Pueblo Magico. 8 hours back to border by car. Not on water but many compensating considerations, including cost of living.
> 
> This site has pictures and info.
> 
> Alamos Realty – Alamos, Sonora, MX



As you can see the OP seems to want to be near water activities:

""I live a block from the beach in Florida right now. I love the water and everything boating...
but if you know of great boating towns, do let me know! Haha! 
As long as it's a town with lots of pools,""

Do you really think Alamos is going to appeal to the OP


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## MJD13 (Aug 11, 2014)

Actually, OP might. We, too, are sailors and water lovers. Alamos isn't right on the water but there's a beautiful beach on the Sea of Cortez about 1.25 hours away. Link below. Great for a day or overnight trip...there's an inexpensive small hotel, RV park and beach restaurants. We are lucky enough to also have a sailboat and a condo in Marina Vallarta. But, for day to day living, we appreciate the small town feel of Alamos. Newcomers are immediately supported, no stop lights and a chance to build relationships with the local community. The cost of living is about half of Vallarta which allows for more funds to travel. 

https://explore-sonora.com/huatabampito/


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

You do not have to sell me on Alamos, I visited during Christmas week 1965, drove there from San Francisco...I still have the Bolo Tie sold by the prisoners from the jail on top of the hill...A couple years ago on a visit I stayed at the 7 columns B&B...In fact I will be in Navojoa next week maybe I'll take a ride up the hill for lunch...........




MJD13 said:


> Actually, OP might. We, too, are sailors and water lovers. Alamos isn't right on the water but there's a beautiful beach on the Sea of Cortez about 1.25 hours away. Link below. Great for a day or overnight trip...there's an inexpensive small hotel, RV park and beach restaurants. We are lucky enough to also have a sailboat and a condo in Marina Vallarta. But, for day to day living, we appreciate the small town feel of Alamos. Newcomers are immediately supported, no stop lights and a chance to build relationships with the local community. The cost of living is about half of Vallarta which allows for more funds to travel.
> 
> https://explore-sonora.com/huatabampito/


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

chicois8 said:


> You seem to be describing the towns of Chapala or Ajijic at Lake Chapala, Jalisco.


Chapala and Ajijic have turned into some of the most expensive places to live. Expats are raping other expats renting rooms for $600.00

Crime is skyrocketing with home burglaries, auto thefts and purse snatchings almost daily. A kidnapping resulted in a shootout there last week.

The lake is so full of pesticides and glyphosate an entire village tested positive for both in their urine, children in four villages along the lake are dying of kidney failure. The University of Guadalajara determined that these toxins become airborne as the lake evaporates and are breathed in by the population, this includes the expats. Test showed the same amounts in the urine of a 2 year old girl as a 50 year old man.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...en-fall-sick-around-mexico-lake-idUSKBN1DY11E


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Zorro,
I am puzzled why after four pages on this subject you revert back to post #2 and rant about things that had nothing to do with my post...The OP asked about a place to settle and gave a list of desirables important for her and her 2 sons...She mentioned her love for :
boating---I wouldn’t swim in Chapala but I could boat...
near by food options---from taco stands to gourmet ...
walkable---Chapala along the lake / malecon is certainly walkable...
affordable---A friend rents an apartment in Chapala for $90 USD a month...
quiet---well maybe not on weekends...
wifi---there is wifi in Chapala
close to transportation nearby---less then 45 min. to international airport, GDL...
And the bonus is some of the best climate anywhere, an eternal spring...

So it seems to me that most of her desirable items described the Chapala / Ajijic area, then you pop up 37 posts later talking about it being so expensive, every where expats settle in large numbers prices rise, take a look at San Miguel de Allende, Cabo San Lucas, Cancun and Playa del Carmen if you want expensive..
You then mention crime, every where expats settle there is crime including the towns mentioned above...
Finally you address the pollution of Lake Chapala, I would be willing to bet just about every lake, river and beach area in Mexico is polluted with human and animal feces, run
off of pesticides from farmlands and heavy metals from factories...
So Pepe where would you suggest her to look the meets her criteria ?


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## Huapango (Oct 7, 2018)

HolyMole said:


> "Huapango" doesn't narrow it down much. Why the secrecy? Afraid of an influx of outsiders and.............."There goes the neighbourhood"?


Sorry, I've been busy. I live in the Sierra Gorda. Not all of Mexico is polluted, although some of it makes it's way here. We have water activities too, but not of the motorized version.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

chicois8 said:


> Zorro,
> I am puzzled why after four pages on this subject you revert back to post #2 and rant about things that had nothing to do with my post...The OP asked about a place to settle and gave a list of desirables important for her and her 2 sons...She mentioned her love for :
> boating---I wouldn’t swim in Chapala but I could boat...
> near by food options---from taco stands to gourmet ...
> ...


Because most people are totally unaware of the serious problems in Chapala and others, such as yourself actually promote it. When children in four separate villages along the shores are dying it is well worth mentioning. There are many places that are healthy and great but a lake that is fed by the Lerma River which is killing people just from breathing the air is not one of them. 

To answer your question as to why, I started on the first page as most people do when reading a topic, I didn't "go back four pages" and informing people of a serious threat to their health is hardly a "rant."

https://harpers.org/blog/2017/04/under-the-surface/


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Quoting an article about kidney disease in populations of small villages does not apply to the OP's situation in the least. Yes, it is criminal on the part of the polluters in those areas and I personally would like to "lock them up" for what they are doing to a helpless, mostly poor, native population.

I read the entire article and have to correct the general impression Zorro is trying to offer, that the Lake Chapala area is hazardous place to live. 

It is well known that the Lerma river pollution in those particular villages is resulting in serious disease. The article does not state whether any of the victims were drinking purified water. In the areas where most expats choose to live; from Chapala west to Jocotepec, the residents usually drink from garafons of purified water delivered by several reliable companies. Others use a purifying filter system. Test results show that both of those result in safe drinking water.

I have lived a block from Lake Chapala for over ten years, so am "boots on the ground" on this issue. And no, I do not have any sign of kidney disease nor does anyone I know; Expat or Mexican. None of us drink tap water.

I don't know if the OP is still following this thread, but Zorro has offered mis-information which could discourage her from moving to an area which meets most of her desires. That would be doing a disservice.


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## TurtleToo (Aug 23, 2013)

Perhaps I am the only one who found Zorro's info and article both interesting and compelling. While the discussion of kidney disease may not apply to the OP (assuming that like all expats she will drink bottled water,) a consideration of the pollution level of the lake may still be of interest to her. Here is a discussion of the lake on a local web board from the point of view of others, like Lagoloo, who live there.

https://www.chapala.com/webboard/index.php?/topic/65781-lake-chapala-water-quality/

.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

TurtleToo said:


> Perhaps I am the only one who found Zorro's info and article both interesting and compelling. While the discussion of kidney disease may not apply to the OP (assuming that like all expats she will drink bottled water,) a consideration of the pollution level of the lake may still be of interest to her. Here is a discussion of the lake on a local web board from the point of view of others, like Lagoloo, who live there.
> 
> https://www.chapala.com/webboard/index.php?/topic/65781-lake-chapala-water-quality/
> 
> .


The University of Guadalajara determined that the pesticide and glyphosate level in the lake are so high they become airborne as the lake evaporates and are breathed in by the public, so bottled water will not help. This should be of concern to anyone considering or suggesting this as a good place to live. If you Google "Chapala glyphosate" it will take you to the web board where the residents are discussing the actual spraying of the hyacinths on the lake to kill them with glyphosate so not only is it running in from the river, but they are actually applying it themselves, or the community is. The discussions go back before they knew it was a carcinogen.


But, there is a lot of misinformation on the link that TurtleToo posted because these are people who mainly have a vested interest in the lake in the form of finder's fees, real estate sales and insurance sales. You can get the truth simply go going down the page when you search and avoid the Chapala dot com web board altogether as not only is it owned and managed by Chapala Realty and Coldwell Bankers, but they don't allow any crime reporting there. 

This is the only place you will see people say "people swim in it and eat the fish." I confronted one of them and asked if they were expat children or if she ever saw expat children swimming in the lake and she "had no idea." Any search on the Lerma River pollution will tell you the truth, not a web board owned and managed by the local realtors.

But, this discussion on the same web board is a little more honest if you go down a little past the deniers.

https://www.chapala.com/webboard/index.php?/topic/78421-swimming-in-lake-chapala/


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Yo Pepe, Why are you hijacking this thread, we could get back on topic and you can start your own thread on the Lake Chapala's pollution problems..get a life.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

chicois8 said:


> Zorro,
> I am puzzled why after four pages on this subject you revert back to post #2 and rant about things that had nothing to do with my post...The OP asked about a place to settle and gave a list of desirables important for her and her 2 sons...She mentioned her love for :
> boating---I wouldn’t swim in Chapala but I could boat...
> near by food options---from taco stands to gourmet ...
> ...


It has everything to with your post as you suggested Chapala and Ajijic. The climate there is no better than any other mountain region, your friend has a rare find of an apartment for $90.00 a month, there are not many if any to be found like that. Wifi is everywhere, walkable also is everywhere and other than boating many other locations would be a lot better considering the chemicals, toxins, heavy metals and sewage that are present in the lake, I doubt if knowing this they would want to boat there. I would suggest anywhere but that lake. besides, the OP said, 

"I love the water and everything boating, but I'm realizing that by only looking at places like PV, I'm going to miss out on more of the real culture and beauty of Mexico, so I'm open,"

So boating is not a must have. There are literally thousands of places that offer, Walkable, Affordable, Quiet, Great Wifi and easy to travel that won't kill you simply by breathing. Climate was not even mentioned. 

Matching the OP's wants I would suggest right across the highway from Puerto Aventuras where the local people live who work the resort of PA and the Hard Rock, it matches every need posted and there are individual houses as well as modern apartments that rent starting at $200.00 plus the great water of the Caribbean.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Not a word from Zorro about his misleading post about the Chapala area being unhealthy. Hmmm.
Wonder why?


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## TurtleToo (Aug 23, 2013)

Zorro2017 said:


> The University of Guadalajara determined that the pesticide and glyphosate level in the lake are so high they become airborne as the lake evaporates and are breathed in by the public, so bottled water will not help. This should be of concern to anyone considering or suggesting this as a good place to live. If you Google "Chapala glyphosate" it will take you to the web board where the residents are discussing the actual spraying of the hyacinths on the lake to kill them with glyphosate so not only is it running in from the river, but they are actually applying it themselves, or the community is. The discussions go back before they knew it was a carcinogen.
> 
> 
> But, there is a lot of misinformation on the link that TurtleToo posted because these are people who mainly have a vested interest in the lake in the form of finder's fees, real estate sales and insurance sales. You can get the truth simply go going down the page when you search and avoid the Chapala dot com web board altogether as not only is it owned and managed by Chapala Realty and Coldwell Bankers, but they don't allow any crime reporting there.
> ...


This is good to know about the ownership of the web board. At first glance I thought it was relatively balanced, because there were people representing both sides of the issue, and most of them seem to live there. But I have to agree that realtors are definitely not neutral parties.

In any event, when researching and collecting information about a potential location, I want ALL the opinions I can get, good, bad and indifferent. I'm capable of sorting through both fact and opinion, and deciding what applies to me, and what information to prioritize. So in my opinion the OP can sort out how important this issue is to her, and do further research if she wants. I, myself, would want to know about the links that Zorro has provided, just as I appreciated the links he provided about the water supply in Guanajuato a few months back. After weighing everything I knew, I still made the decision to live in Guanajuato, but my decisions about water are more informed, and I do some things differently than I might otherwise. 

Too much information is always better than too little information in my book.

.


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## Zorro2017 (Jan 9, 2017)

chicois8 said:


> Yo Pepe, Why are you hijacking this thread, we could get back on topic and you can start your own thread on the Lake Chapala's pollution problems..get a life.


I'm not hijacking anything. A person asked for suggestions and was given a terrible place to consider. I just pointed out that Chapala and Ajijic or anywhere lakeside is a very poor choice for your health. I don't see how that in any way is highjacking the thread. I made a suggestion based on what their criteria was after addressing the sewer that is Chapala.... get a life.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

I am not associated with any real estate interests. The website Chapala.com has its usefulness in finding general information on other matters, but it says up front that the board is owned by a Real Estate Agency. There are other easily seen biases. Take it for what it's worth.

Zorro throws this one out, but fails to give a link as to when and where and who. 

"The University of Guadalajara determined that the pesticide and glyphosate level in the lake are so high they become airborne as the lake evaporates and are breathed in by the public, so bottled water will not help." 

How about citing some facts and dates, such as WHERE and WHEN in the 55 mile long lake this study was done. There's the area where the kids got kidney disease as a result of industrial pollutant dumping... and there's the rest of the lake, where most of the current water is coming from dams dumping as well as rainfall. Right now, it's near flood stage and the main parking lot next to the lake is now IN the lake.

I agree that one should get as much information, both pro and con, as they can.


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## lagoloo (Apr 12, 2011)

Zorro2017 said:


> I'm not hijacking anything. A person asked for suggestions and was given a terrible place to consider. I just pointed out that Chapala and Ajijic or anywhere lakeside is a very poor choice for your health. I don't see how that in any way is highjacking the thread. I made a suggestion based on what their criteria was after addressing the sewer that is Chapala.... get a life.


How lame can you get with "get a life"? Yes, IMO, you did hijack the thread with a pile of misinformation.

Have you ever been to Chapala or known anyone who actually lives there? If the latter was so, were they sick from contact with the lake? "Terrible place" indeed. That's why it's such a popular retirement destination.


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## chicois8 (Aug 8, 2009)

Zorro2017 said:


> I'm not hijacking anything. A person asked for suggestions and was given a terrible place to consider. I just pointed out that Chapala and Ajijic or anywhere lakeside is a very poor choice for your health. I don't see how that in any way is highjacking the thread. I made a suggestion based on what their criteria was after addressing the sewer that is Chapala.... get a life.



You did hijack the thread, the OP gave a list of likes, nowhere in her post did she ask about safety or health matters until you started your rant about pollution in the lake and kidney problems. 
P.S. I have a life......


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## TundraGreen (Jul 15, 2010)

Moderator note:

Enough already! This discussion is over.


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## Isla Verde (Oct 19, 2011)

TundraGreen said:


> Moderator note:
> 
> Enough already! This discussion is over.


Thanks, Will.


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