# Does my NIE become invalid if I live outside Spain for a few years?



## Pepe_Bass (Oct 4, 2020)

Hi there. I lived in Madrid 2010-15 and had and have a NIE. I'm considering going back to Spain and haven't been able to find if my NIE would still be valid. 

As I understand it, I'd it still is valid then I would hopefully be covered under the withdrawal agreement terms as being there and registered pre 2021. But if the NIE is invalid now...I would have to go this year and register again before the cut off.

Thanks for any assistance in advance!

Cheers


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## tebo53 (Sep 18, 2014)

Your NIE is valid for Life, similar to the UK National insurance number. However, it does not give you any entitlement whatsoever to residency. You will need to apply for residency and a TIE card which involves providing evidence of earnings and income plus proof of healthcare etc, etc.

Steve


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Pepe_Bass said:


> Hi there. I lived in Madrid 2010-15 and had and have a NIE. I'm considering going back to Spain and haven't been able to find if my NIE would still be valid.
> 
> As I understand it, I'd it still is valid then I would hopefully be covered under the withdrawal agreement terms as being there and registered pre 2021. But if the NIE is invalid now...I would have to go this year and register again before the cut off.
> 
> ...


Same as previous poster - NIE is a number for life, but doesn't give you any rights. You have to come now and apply for a TIE


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## snikpoh (Nov 19, 2007)

Are you perhaps confusing NIE with the green residency registration card/certificate?

The green card/certificate will expire if you are out of Spain for more than 6 months in the first 5 years or out for 2 years after that.

Next year, by the WA rules, you can leave for up to 5 years without (in theory) losing residency.


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## Pepe_Bass (Oct 4, 2020)

snikpoh said:


> Are you perhaps confusing NIE with the green residency registration card/certificate?
> 
> The green card/certificate will expire if you are out of Spain for more than 6 months in the first 5 years or out for 2 years after that.
> 
> Next year, by the WA rules, you can leave for up to 5 years without (in theory) losing residency.


Hi,thanks for the reply. Yes I have the green certificate, which sounds like it is the residency registration certificate you refer too.

I was hoping this would still be valid and so I could be covered under the withdrawal agreement without having to Ruch back to Spain now and register again as it is difficult for my circumstances right now.

However I have breached those time periods out of Spain that you quoted for validity of the green certificate. My question now would be do you think that would be logged and the certificate officially invalidated? Or could I move next year and continue using the old certificate and pick up where I left off?

Aware I'm looking for a loophole here amongst all the papeleo.

Thanks


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## MataMata (Nov 30, 2008)

Until Jan 1st. 2021 nobody is counting so I'd be very surprised if anybody questioned or even noticed your coming back to Spain and resuming residence.

Sure if someone had a mind or motive to do so they could ask you to prove that you'd abided by the rules and verify it by cross checking with the records which are generated each time your passport is scanned at a port of entry or exit but they'd have to have a very compelling reason to do that.

Since you've had residency for over 5 years in practice there would be nothing to prevent you from immediately apply for the new TIE which would grant you permanent residence with no need to prove income or health cover.

The thing I'd be most worried about is not having engaged with the Spanish tax system for so long, did you engage while you were here before?


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

I left Spain for 3 years 2013 - 2016.

In July 2013 I went to the extranjería office and told them that I was leaving.

The official looked at my paperwork, asked when I'd be coming back (to which I replied between 3 and 5 years) and said, "well you qualify for a permanent resident certificate because you have been here over 5 years, we'll change it for you now and you can just keep it until you come back....

I now know that this was wrong of her, but it did work. I was away for 3 years, did tax returns as non-resident, took my kids out of school, deregistered my car, everything. And nobody has ever questioned where I was, or for how long or why.

I would chance it, but be prepared!


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## kaipa (Aug 3, 2013)

TBH if you submitted an application for a TIE you probably would get it. Having said that no idea what their procedure for checking is. I imagine they just check whether you are registered on the data base.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

kaipa said:


> TBH if you submitted an application for a TIE you probably would get it. Having said that no idea what their procedure for checking is. I imagine they just check whether you are registered on the data base.


Yes, there is an official foreigner's list, Central Register of Foreign Nationals (Registro Central de Extranjeros), and all those who have registered (and have not since been de-registered) will still have their name on it.


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## Overandout (Nov 10, 2012)

kaipa said:


> TBH if you submitted an application for a TIE you probably would get it. Having said that no idea what their procedure for checking is. I imagine they just check whether you are registered on the data base.


Is there any declaration which you sign when applying for a TIE?

I agree with the sentiment of Kaipa's post, but I would not recommend making a false declaration. That could get you into a worse situation.

I would just turn up with the residency certificate and act like nothing has happened, there is no obligation to swap to a TIE. Applying for a TIE just seems to be adding another step where they could "find you out".

I am assuming that the OP would return to the address on the green certificate so no other change was necessary.


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## Pepe_Bass (Oct 4, 2020)

Overandout said:


> Is there any declaration which you sign when applying for a TIE?
> 
> I agree with the sentiment of Kaipa's post, but I would not recommend making a false declaration. That could get you into a worse situation.
> 
> ...



Hi all, Thanks for your input so far, very useful. So to answer a few questions and clarify

- 2010-2014 so under 5 years initial stay
- 1 interaction with the Tax system for a declaracion de la renta for a short employment (the rest of my stay was as a student and income from becas so no tax system involvement)
- Padron registered in Madrid (and I didn't inform them of leaving, as per residencia)
- The address on my Residencia certificate is an old one and not one I would return to. In fact I am not planning on returning to Madrid, rather a different region

>I won't be really able or planning to return to Spain this year, so assuming that, and my willingness to test the the rules and checking it seems my option are:

A) Return in 2021, rent a place, get a padron for my new location and then continue as normal with my old green certificate (although I'm supposed to update my address on it so may have to face the TIE process anyway)

B) as per option A but go for the TIE, claim ignorance of having needed to update the address on it previously, and be prepared to answer questions/provide proff of my addresses and employment in the past few years (Not sure if they ask or check this kind of stuff or if it is more of a simple and less inquisitive process - I guess this is key!) 

C) as per option A but don't try and get a TIE and continue with my old certificate but not knowing if it is valid on the system still. However not sure if this would cause issues for other formal processes down the line...ie buying a property, getting a job, health system registration etc.

Has anybody gone through the TIE application that could shed light on what they ask?

Thanks again for your indulgence of helping with this situation. I'm not one to test the rules like this but desperate times thanks to Brexit and a change of life plans!

Cheers


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Pepe_Bass said:


> Hi all, Thanks for your input so far, very useful. So to answer a few questions and clarify
> 
> - 2010-2014 so under 5 years initial stay
> - 1 interaction with the Tax system for a declaracion de la renta for a short employment (the rest of my stay was as a student and income from becas so no tax system involvement)
> ...


https://www.expatforum.com/expats/s...1503318-ties-british-citizens-6-7-2020-a.html


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