# Your views on the financial requirement of £18,600



## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

Hi all 

Do you think that the UKBA will change their financial requirement of £18,600 within a year or so? or could it even become higher. I think for many of us, changes to the requirement for less income would be a dream come true. Surely there must be something we can do? This is breaching human rights.. "right to a family life - Article 8 of the ECHR" Its preventing people who are unfortunate of meeting the requirement by the only way is to work around 63 hours a week on minimum wage and working all these hours per week can actually make an individual become ill. Especially for people who are young and married meeting these requirement would mean they need to apply for higher education such as university and even at the end of a 3 year course this is also not guaranteed they will find a job that owns around £18,600 which also means that they need to wait another 4-5 years before being together with their loved ones. 

Loving someone who lives in a non- EU country is almost like a crime...

Its really sad.


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

It's really not that high, considering that someone earning £16000 or more is not eligible to access public funds and last year it was rumoured that the new minimum was going to be £25000. 

As someone who is from a non-EEA country, and a low risk Commonwealth country at that, I don't think that it's fair that an EU citizen can come over to look for work while I and my countrymen have to jump through the immigration hoops... Queen Elizabeth is the queen of my country, her image is on my currency and when I was a little school girl in the 1970's, I had to sing Gid Save The Queen at school assemblies. 

I am fortunate that my husband earns more than the required amount (and even if he didn't, I'm 'old rules') so I don't have to worry, but getting back to your question, I wouldn't be surprised if the minimum income requirement went to £19200 or more in the next 10-18 months.


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

WestCoastCanadianGirl said:


> It's really not that high, considering that someone earning £16000 or more is not eligible to access public funds and last year it was rumoured that the new minimum was going to be £25000.
> 
> As someone who is from a non-EEA country, and a low risk Commonwealth country at that, I don't think that it's fair that an EU citizen can come over to look for work while I and my countrymen have to jump through the immigration hoops... Queen Elizabeth is the queen of my country, her image is on my currency and when I was a little school girl in the 1970's, I had to sing Gid Save The Queen at school assemblies.
> 
> I am fortunate that my husband earns more than the required amount (and even if he didn't, I'm 'old rules') so I don't have to worry, but getting back to your question, I wouldn't be surprised if the minimum income requirement went to £19200 or more in the next 10-18 months.


I see where your coming from but it is high for people who are young and want to be with their husband/wife and have to work 63 hours per week to meet the requirement or the other option is to way another 4 years to go to university and find a high paid job. I also completely understand that why the requirement is at this balance but I'm finding it difficult for myself. without higher education or luck then a person needs to work 63 hours per week at 6.19! just to be with the person they love


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

Sadly, the Home Office is trying to limit net migration to the UK to under 100k/year and one of the ways that they are trying to achieve this is through stricter immigration laws, one aspect of which is the £18.6k annual income minimum. 

It's still easier to get into the UK than other places in Europe, so it's not likely that there will be any loosening up of the current rules.


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

I think it is about right. I can't think of any convincing argument that the UK should be obligated to import the very poor; it only makes England poorer. £18,600 is enough to where I don't worry (too much) that welfare will be necessary. 

I don't see a human rights violation in ensuring that each citizen can support him/herself while a guest in the UK (or any other country).


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

AmyD said:


> I think it is about right. I can't think of any convincing argument that England should be obligated to import the very poor; it only makes England poorer. £18,600 is enough to where I don't worry (too much) that welfare will be necessary.
> 
> I don't see a human rights violation in ensuring that each citizen can support him/herself while a guest in the UK (or any other country).


it prevents people who work on 6.19 an hour from bringing their husband/wife to live with them


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

No it doesn't. The applicant could live in his own country with his spouse.

Life is about being an adult and making choices. It can sometimes be a tough choice but I always found that making a plan and working the plan, and following the rules, generally gets me what I want.


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

But why should I move to my partners country when I am British Citizen and lived here most my life. why do I need to be forced out of the country when I have lived for 20 years..


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Controversial as it is, £18,600 IS actually a low wage if two or more people are living on this (the threshold is assumed as an amount to cater for a minimum two people). It's something like £1,200 take-home pay a month, and is actually low enough that it qualifies for tax credits in order to help with day to day expenses. If it was not considered a low wage, the government would not be handing out public money to top it up. Before the new rules were introduced, I think most of us here were fully expecting the government to select the highest recommended threshold of £25,700 - and we were greatly surprised (and relieved) when they instead picked the lowest (£18,600).

With average rents/mortgages being £500-£800 a month, utilities another £150-£200 a month, council tax some £100+ a month, car ownership/public transport another £100-£400, groceries £200+ - it's hard to see how anyone can afford to keep a household on such a wage. There is of course the argument of "I live with my parents/family so don't have all those costs", but the government wants to encourage independence with the sponsor proving (at least eventually) that they alone can house and take care of their overseas partner and family without being aided by others.

The only quarrels I have lie with how the threshold is applied rather than the amount itself - one example being an older couple who own their home outright and without mortgage are living comfortably on a modest pension without public assistance, another being where the UK national has been staying at home to rear the kids whilst the overseas partner has been earning. My quarrels are redundant, however. As WCCG said, the government is making no secret of the fact that immigration must be culled, and all new rules are leaning towards reducing immigration. To date, they have tried to find fair ways to achieve this and there has been some degree of success in reducing overall net migration, but how long that fairness will continue is anybody's guess.

I think most attention is currently on EU migration (specifically the lifting of the Romanian/Bulgarian restrictions in 2014) over which immigration rules have no impact, so I personally don't anticipate massive rule changes in non-EU migration in the imminent future (my thoughts only). At the same time, I feel 99% sure there will be no relaxation in existing rules and limits, and if the finance limits DO change, it is extremely likely they'll be raised rather than lowered.


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

Sel, I agree with that being a British citizen, you should be able to live in Britain - but I am not convinced you should get to go shopping on the world stage and bring home anyone you wish. The British government, as a sovereign country, has the obligation to scrutinize anyone who applies for entry. It isn't about you - it's about the goals for the UK, which are solvency and stability. Importing hoards of people who don't speak the language, and/or will be draining resources is madness. If you as a British person can't afford to support yourself, you should not be able to bring in others. 

That said, I'd rather British people be with their loved ones than to see EU people with no connection to Britain walk in with no problems and bring their families. That's annoying. 

Also annoying are the people who want to bring in their whole families: uncles, brothers, parents, grandparents. That's absurd. People are free to make a decision to try to immigrate, but that doesn't mean they should have the right to bring these others with them. This has been slowed significantly in the past few years, incidentally, due to stricter immigration rules.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

I think if anything, you will find the restrictions increase over the next few years. I wouldn't be surprised if the financial requirements increase as well as the UK attempts to bring the net migration figures lower and lower. I understand that in this job climate it isn't easy to find and keep work - I'm well qualified in my field with over 10 years experience and have struggled to find work - have had to resort to keeping two part time jobs instead. However, I definitely understand that the UK had to draw the line somewhere, and needs to protect the interest of their citizens and their country before the needs of people wanting to enter.


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

AmyD said:


> Sel, I agree with that being a British citizen, you should be able to live in Britain - but I am not convinced you should get to go shopping on the world stage and bring home anyone you wish. The British government, as a sovereign country, has the obligation to scrutinize anyone who applies for entry. It isn't about you - it's about the goals for the UK, which are solvency and stability. Importing hoards of people who don't speak the language, and/or will be draining resources is madness. If you as a British person can't afford to support yourself, you should not be able to bring in others.
> 
> That said, I'd rather British people be with their loved ones than to see EU people with no connection to Britain walk in with no problems and bring their families. That's annoying.
> 
> Also annoying are the people who want to bring in their whole families: uncles, brothers, parents, grandparents. That's absurd. People are free to make a decision to try to immigrate, but that doesn't mean they should have the right to bring these others with them. This has been slowed significantly in the past few years, incidentally, due to stricter immigration rules.


Yeah definitely, I completely understand why the rules are the way they are. In one sense I am happy that it is like this but can be very stressful on the other hand. It promotes independence and begin a life without claiming benefits. which is one wish I would like. I could not go through life living on public funds I would be ashamed, I can not wait to go to university and study to have a high paid jobs however I would like my partner by my side to support me through this. People say life isn't easy and it is important to work for your goals. 

As for people bringing their families over, I guess if it is a better life for them too then they are going to do this but it should also be stopped.


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

Leanna, 

Aren't you a pharmacist? Or was that someone else? (Maybe WCCG?)


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

AmyD said:


> That said, I'd rather British people be with their loved ones than to see EU people with no connection to Britain walk in with no problems and bring their families. That's annoying.


I completely agree with that. I know people around me were particularly surprised when I explained to her that the restrictions on EU citizens were so low when Commonwealth citizens had to jump through many more hoops to migrate to the UK. I wish there was a more universal system in place.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

AmyD said:


> Leanna,
> 
> Aren't you a pharmacist? Or was that someone else? (Maybe WCCG?)


No that's WCCG. My background is Criminal Justice!  Though thankfully not in the legislative side of things, so I didn't have to worry about Canadian Laws vs. UK Laws, but still frustrating to feel qualified and yet no one wants me!


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## WestCoastCanadianGirl (Mar 17, 2012)

AmyD said:


> Leanna,
> 
> Aren't you a pharmacist? Or was that someone else? (Maybe WCCG?)


I'm the formerly licensed drug dealer/pharmacy slave/pharmacy technician... LOL.

I've been working in the profession for about a dozen years, but since my Canadian training and experience is not equivalent to my UK counterparts, I'd be looking at up to 2 years re-training to become registered with the Pharmacy Council... that's more or less out of the question given my desire to start a family some time this year or early next and my (comparatively) advanced age (41).

Am considering my options and will likely be in a totally different career by the fall, if not sooner.


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

I think it's only fair to demand that a couple/family should be able to support themselves. If it was my country that introduced these rules I would be totally supportive. 

I do however disagree that people should not fall in love with whoever they choose. It's against human rights to tell someone they can't fall in love with someone from another country. 
Imagine if someone told a same sex couple they could not fall in love with another man/woman....how would that make them feel....violated, no?  
As long as the couple can support themselves it shouldn't be an issue.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

But a couple usually have an option of living in their partner's country, even though they may prefer not to. And if the reason for wanting to live in UK is this country offers better standard of living, more opportunities, better education etc, they are no different from economic migrants, which most EEA citizens in UK are. When a couple fall in love and get married or form other permanent union, their first and foremost desire must surely be to live together anywhere in the world, if needs be, and bettering yourselves and enjoying higher standard of living should not their main consideration.


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

I agree with you Joppa, point well made. 
However, if the one who is a British Citizen does not want to live in the other partner's country, has tried, but has not succeeded because he cannot perform daily tasks like writing in another alphabet, then surely he would want to be somewhere where he has spent most of his life, no? 
As for economic migrants, don't they contribute to the economic climate by earning and working and not taking benefits? I'm sure that with these strict rules being put in place, a non EU national would not dare claim benefits. And again, who is paying for the non EU applicants fees and translation of documents and similar expenses? Is it the government or the non EU individual himself? Who is on benefits in the UK, can you explain to me, since I am a third world person and therefore I don't quite understand your system, and obviously my education is not up to your standards, even though i seem to write and speak English quite well, French even better


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

MacUK said:


> I agree with you Joppa, point well made.
> However, if the one who is a British Citizen does not want to live in the other partner's country, has tried, but has not succeeded because he cannot perform daily tasks like writing in another alphabet, then surely he would want to be somewhere where he has spent most of his life, no?


The same argument can be used for their non-UK partner, who may not want to learn English and is happy living in their own country.



> As for economic migrants, don't they contribute to the economic climate by earning and working and not taking benefits? I'm sure that with these strict rules being put in place, a non EU national would not dare claim benefits.


An economic migrant is someone whose main reason for wanting to come to UK is to enjoy higher standard of living and better opportunities than what is available at home. It only talks about desire, not that they will succeed in getting a job, paying taxes and making a useful contribution to British society. They may, or they may not. Regardless of outcome, they are still economic migrants.



> And again, who is paying for the non EU applicants fees and translation of documents and similar expenses? Is it the government or the non EU individual himself? Who is on benefits in the UK, can you explain to me, since I am a third world person and therefore I don't quite understand your system, and obviously my education is not up to your standards, even though i seem to write and speak English quite well, French even better.


It's right that those who wish to have the opportunity to live in UK should contribute to the cost of providing immigration services, and not merely to cover the cost. UK isn't alone. Those who want to start a new life 'down under' in Australia will have to pay a visa fee of around £2,000, higher than UK. Those on benefits in UK are those who are entitled to them, including those who are settled here and in many cases EU nationals, and dare I suggest, illegal immigrants who have benefited from previous amnesties or managed to fool the system. Even if you don't claim benefits, you are still enjoying free healthcare and free education for your children, to mention just two.


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

But I already have that here, free education, free healthcare etc...
I have my family here. 
I fell in love with someone who has spent most of his life in the UK. 
Why did I convince him to stay here then, if I wanted to move to the UK? 
I still want to stay here, I don't care where we are as long as we are together, but now I don't have a choice, do I? 
People live with more, and people live with less too. 
Is living in the UK worth my peace and tranquillity, and time spent with my husband as a family? No, it's not. 
I am happy here in my country, where all of my closest family members are, where I feel at home, where I was born and raised, where my roots are. 
I didn't fall off another planet just to marry my husband...., he knows I have obligations, assets and family here. I have lived in another EU country, and I didn't like it, I was home sick all of the time! 
If you can't understand what I am talking about, then please, I am inviting you to my country to see what I see, to show you why I love my country so much. It would be an honour to have you as our guest.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

To be honest, both me and my partner would have much preferred Florida, but the US doesn't recognise same-sex marriages federally and therefore there is no immigration policy for same-sex couples. If that changes, we may well (eventually) head to Florida. For now though, the UK is our only choice.

There is a large misconception in the minds of the British public about immigration - that all immigrants can come to Britain, be given benefits and social housing whilst British people struggle. Any non-EU immigrant here knows this is simply not true, but truth doesn't always sell newspapers. The situation is being worsened as papers broadcast (on an almost daily basis) the impending doom of lifted EU restrictions on Romania and Bulgaria (relatively poorer countries) - and EU migrants actually can claim benefits and housing, though our government is trying to introduce measures to prevent this at least initially. This makes immigration an even less popular issue because most people don't separate EU and non-EU migration in their minds. In short, immigration is the scapegoat for our dire economic climate, our over-population and high unemployment, and all mainstream government parties know that strong anti-immigration policies are the only policies to win them votes at the next election.


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

Anyway, I would live in a field if my husband asked me to. I love him, I intend to spend my whole life with him, and even if I have to sacrifice seeing my family ( I am an only child by the way), and denying them too see their grandchild from their only daughter. That is how much I love my husband, I would give up everything to be with him, as he did for me when we lived here. Further more, he knows how much I love him, just by going through this ordeal and sacrificing many things, vital things, like a father to be with his child. 
I am a very down to earth person, and the only thing I ask from life is peace. I have everything else I need. I pray for the day my husband comes back to me, it has been so exhausting and painful without him. I just want to be with my husband. I am actually crying now.  
But still, I am inviting everyone of you to my country to see through my eyes, to see what a beautiful country it is, if you don't believe me, come and see for yourselves. I love Macedonia!!!!


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## cc9 (Oct 29, 2012)

UKBA assume most applicants are looking for an easy life in the UK, however it took me months to convince my husband that the UK was the best place for us to settle as i am the main earner in my relationship and I am responsible for my elderly widowed mother. He would have been delighted if I could have moved to him even though we would have taken a massive cut in our income as I would find it extremely difficult to find employment.
I have no option to move to my husbands country, however reasons like these are not always considered by the UKBA. 
I would also wonder what option are left for people who don't meet the immigration rules for either of their countries. Would they have to up sticks and move to another country were neither of them have family, employment or a home???
Just some food for thought


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## shyam74 (Mar 29, 2013)

Urgent help needed
my daughter is studying in coimbatore in igcse board. As she is moving to dubai the tc needs attestation from district educational officer but he says this is not in their purview.iam totally lost.can some body help me from where i can get attesttaion for igcse board in india


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

cc9 said:


> I would also wonder what option are left for people who don't meet the immigration rules for either of their countries. Would they have to up sticks and move to another country were neither of them have family, employment or a home???
> Just some food for thought


For some reason, me and my partner thought there would be no chance of her coming to the UK. This was a few years back when the government was broadcasting about huge changes and cuts in immigration. We knew we couldn't choose the US, so we were literally singling out different countries where UK or US had some connection and reading up on whether there was any chance. Even the British Virgin Islands! It was a miserable time because it soon became clear there would be nowhere, unless we could save a lot of money and try New Zealand or Malta (where I have relatives).

As MacUK said, we'd both said that we didn't care if we had to live in some old camper van somewhere (anywhere) provided we could be together, and often the UK is the 'only' option rather than the desired option.

MacUK - hang in there. Sending hugs to you.


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## cc9 (Oct 29, 2012)

I totally understand the feeling of helplessness when you think you have no options. My husband and I are currently looking at all our options because we have a very high chance his spouse visa application will be refused  
Ireland would have been a brilliant second option for us as its only 30 miles to my mother and It is one of the few countries that I can transfer my qualifications to. However my joint British Irish nationality and the common travel area makes this impossible   
For now the only thing we can do is wait and hope, the heart breaking pleas of my husband not to leave every time I return home from his country breaks me a little bit more every time


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

Thank you 2farapart for your kind words and also cc9. I have to admit that you and this forum have been a life saver during these difficult times. It is hell to go through, and it's not worth anything, unless you have someone you love and you are willing to go through it because of them. 
Huge hugs to you!!! XoXo


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

shyam74 said:


> Urgent help needed
> my daughter is studying in coimbatore in igcse board. As she is moving to dubai the tc needs attestation from district educational officer but he says this is not in their purview.iam totally lost.can some body help me from where i can get attesttaion for igcse board in india


Hi shyam74 - this is the forum for people moving to the UK. There is a forum for Dubai here: Dubai Expat Forum for Expats Living in Dubai - Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad where they will hopefully be able to give you some help. Good luck!


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

cc9, why do you think you have a high chance of being refused?

My fiancé and I decided on the UK because I'm a novelist and can write anywhere, but he's a lawyer and his career would be set back if he had to come to the US and take the Bar exam. I love him and I love England, so I think it's all going to work out just fine.


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

MacUK said:


> If you can't understand what I am talking about, then please, I am inviting you to my country to see what I see, to show you why I love my country so much. It would be an honour to have you as our guest.


I could imagine how beautiful Macedonia is!! the same with my countries Montenegro/Bosnia, there is no where like Bosnia/Montenegro and in your case Macedonia!


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

Oh yes, and on top of everything, all of the troubles of being alone with the baby, my Persian cat who has been with me for 6 years died from Chronic Renal Failure on the 30th December, so imagine how my holidays were....I was devastated but I kept going, like i have been for the past 10 months, and everyone else who thinks that this is easy, well, ya know what? It's not! But some people just stay strong and move on  

Btw, I love Montenegro, such beautiful beaches!!!


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

MacUK said:


> Oh yes, and on top of everything, all of the troubles of being alone with the baby, my Persian cat who has been with me for 6 years died from Chronic Renal Failure on the 30th December, so imagine how my holidays were....I was devastated but I kept going, like i have been for the past 10 months, and everyone else who thinks that this is easy, well, ya know what? It's not! But some people just stay strong and move on
> 
> Btw, I love Montenegro, such beautiful beaches!!!


I'm sorry to hear about your cat, that must of been the most difficult day especially after 6 years. People don't really understand what it is like when your not with the person you would give your life for. This is because they are not going through the sleepless nights and heartbreaking moments. I understand in life you need to work very hard for you want but why should we have to go through such as a difficult time while there are people who take advantaged of what they have and the precious things others would do everything in their power for. 

P.s definitely the most breathtaking place, I've never visited to Macedonia but I can imagine that it is very similar to Montenegro, similar words spoken


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Is it still called FYR of Macedonia?


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

Internally it's Macedonia but internationally it's called Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. Therefore, FYROM. 
You can Google it under Macedonia or FYROM, whichever you like.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I knew it was to do with Greece's claim over the name Macedonia. Any chance of a resolution?


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

Sel said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your cat, that must of been the most difficult day especially after 6 years. People don't really understand what it is like when your not with the person you would give your life for. This is because they are not going through the sleepless nights and heartbreaking moments. I understand in life you need to work very hard for you want but why should we have to go through such as a difficult time while there are people who take advantaged of what they have and the precious things others would do everything in their power for.
> 
> P.s definitely the most breathtaking place, I've never visited to Macedonia but I can imagine that it is very similar to Montenegro, similar words spoken


Yes it's very difficult, but we survive. 
The languages are very, very similar, I can understand it very well, I'm sure you would understand our language quite easily, since they are all Slavic languages.


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

Frankly, I don't know, it's something that we yet have to see.



> I knew it was to do with Greece's claim over the name Macedonia. Any chance of a resolution?


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

MacUK said:


> Yes it's very difficult, but we survive.
> The languages are very, very similar, I can understand it very well, I'm sure you would understand our language quite easily, since they are all Slavic languages.


da da, kako si uspela da zivis u velku britianju?


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

Hahahaha you're not allowed to speak on the forum in our language  
Let me translate: Sel said: How did you manage to live in the UK?
Mac UK said: I don't live in the UK, my husband does. I'm waiting for the visa  

Ja ne zivim u Velikoj Britaniji, moj suprug zivi tamo. Ja cekam vizu.


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

Hahahah  I hope your joking.

Our language is the most best language if I must say so myself! 
How did you meet your husband from the UK - countries miles apart. Is he Macedonian too?


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Macedonian is written in Cyrillic isn't it, like Македонија?


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

It's a public forum and I can't really describe everything, as you know, sorry about that  
I met him in my country, and after some time of going out we became romantically involved, we fell in love and we got married. After several months we welcomed our daughter. It felt right, mind, body and soul 



> Hahahah I hope your joking.
> 
> Our language is the most best language if I must say so myself!
> How did you meet your husband from the UK - countries miles apart. Is he Macedonian too?


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

Joppa said:


> Macedonian is written in Cyrillic isn't it, like Македонија?


   
Yes!!!!!!! It's Република Македонија. :clap2:I can write our alphabet if you like, but I think it's against the rules....


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

Thats sweet love. I'm waiting to apply for a spouse visa too for Husband in Bosnia. I wish you all the best with the visa


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

Thank you Sel, it's been a real pleasure 'talking' to you, if I can help you in any way, please let me know, theoretically I know the rules, but the result remains to be seen hahah


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## Harun (Jan 27, 2013)

£18,600 in the current recession and with trouble finding work can be looked upon as very high. Say if you were made redundant and you had to get a new job. Entry jobs are usually £16,000-£17,500. 

I know people living in London may think £18,600 is low, but you must think about the whole UK in general and especially people up north where the wage is a lot lower for the average person.

The government is definitely breaching human rights but I'm not a judge so I can't do anything 

In other news....I have now encompassed over £18,600 in this tax year with two jobs  It wasn't easy but I finally made it!


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

MacUK said:


> Thank you Sel, it's been a real pleasure 'talking' to you, if I can help you in any way, please let me know, theoretically I know the rules, but the result remains to be seen hahah


Nema na cemu  its nice to speak to people who are close to home and have a knowledge UK rules as this is new to me. I'm only young hehe, I will keep you in mind and I'll probably be asking for help i n the near future.. as I need to finish my studies first and find full-time work as well as my part - time week end jobs. any tips the best way to apply hehe


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

Harun said:


> £18,600 in the current recession and with trouble finding work can be looked upon as very high. Say if you were made redundant and you had to get a new job. Entry jobs are usually £16,000-£17,500.
> 
> I know people living in London may think £18,600 is low, but you must think about the whole UK in general and especially people up north where the wage is a lot lower for the average person.
> 
> ...


That's the problem! especially living up north the standard of the living is low. how many hours did you work a week to make 18,600 and was the pay £6.19?


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## Harun (Jan 27, 2013)

Sel said:


> That's the problem! especially living up north the standard of the living is low. how many hours did you work a week to make 18,600 and was the pay £6.19?


Well I luckily got a part time job in Feb. Since then I've been working weekends there. £6.50 p/h Good thing is that's it's 12 hour shifts so I can earn more.
I've literally scrapped through. I was on a mission to crack £18,600 by week 52 and I have achieved it. Every week I would look at the Gross income on my slips and count down the days. 

I plan to supply 12 months of pay slips from my normal job and 2 months of payslips from my second job. I've been told as long as I can encompass £18,600 in 12 months (April-April in my case) then I can apply under CAT B


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

God, I don't know any more and I don't care, I'm not supposed to know all this, all these rules, for heaven's sake, I need to be thinking about having a second baby now! I'm going to sit down my husband and make him learn his Cyrillic properly if we get refused, no escaping this time ha ha! I'm going to put him on a diet and then when he finally learns it, I'm going to let him eat some meat. He needs to lose weight anyway  
Somehow this reminded me of a scene in a movie when the aunt asks '_'What do you mean he don't eat no meat?! Oh I'll make some lamb then!''_ hahaha totally big fat Greek wedding style  Anyway, if I could learn the Greek alphabet then anything is possible!


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Harun said:


> £18,600 in the current recession and with trouble finding work can be looked upon as very high. Say if you were made redundant and you had to get a new job. Entry jobs are usually £16,000-£17,500.
> 
> I know people living in London may think £18,600 is low, but you must think about the whole UK in general and especially people up north where the wage is a lot lower for the average person.
> 
> ...


There are two parallel arguments really...

£18,600 is ridiculously high for any general job (ie a job that's not only open to a trail of highly qualified graduates). It's far, far worse for people who generally fall into less well-paid jobs: women, who stayed home to rear a family in earlier years or older people who don't have specialist or professional occupations (very young people are always going to be faced with the fact they have to 'work their way up '- few young people start on a higher salary). Many people who are professionally employed, including those in the public services of education, the prision service and NHS, barely scrape through. I don't think anyone could dispute that finding a non-graduate job at £18,600 or higher is at all easy. I agree with you.

HOWEVER, it doesn't change the fact that £18,600 is actually a low wage for two people with housing costs to bear (low enough to qualify for government tax credits), and it's this strand which UKBA considers (a totally separate argument). The poor job market is not their concern; their remit is simply to determine a minimum salary that two people can survive on without a greater burden of public funding. And on this they're right. Once you account for monthly housing, commuting and general living costs, there is no change left out of £1200 a month (estimated take-home pay at £18,600). Where it falls foul is where two people don't have housing costs or don't need £18,600 to survive comfortably.


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

Harun said:


> Well I luckily got a part time job in Feb. Since then I've been working weekends there. £6.50 p/h Good thing is that's it's 12 hour shifts so I can earn more.
> I've literally scrapped through. I was on a mission to crack £18,600 by week 52 and I have achieved it. Every week I would look at the Gross income on my slips and count down the days.
> 
> I plan to supply 12 months of pay slips from my normal job and 2 months of payslips from my second job. I've been told as long as I can encompass £18,600 in 12 months (April-April in my case) then I can apply under CAT B


Oh that's good. My plan to is to finish my studies and hold up a full-time job currently I'm working two jobs on a part time basis and carry out my studies. I bet your energy has gone working all those hours a week - its probably around 63 hours a week am I correct? the worst thing is also I think we need to work these hours all the way until our partners are able to apply for settlement after the 5 year period am I correct?


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## saw87 (Dec 2, 2012)

Sel, let me just correct you there... the cost of living up North is less not the 'standard' of living  

I live in the North East of England and I have to say I still think it would be difficult for two adults to live on £18,600 a year. It wouldn't be impossible but in my opinion it wouldn't be comfortable. I can't imagine there being much, if any, left over after paying out mortgage/rent, council tax, utilities, groceries etc each month and that's in one of the more 'affordable' places to live in the UK.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Sel said:


> Oh that's good. My plan to is to finish my studies and hold up a full-time job currently I'm working two jobs on a part time basis and carry out my studies. I bet your energy has gone working all those hours a week - its probably around 63 hours a week am I correct? the worst thing is also I think we need to work these hours all the way until our partners are able to apply for settlement after the 5 year period am I correct?


You will need to meet the financial requirement at each visa stage. In other words, you need to have either 6 (Categories A and D) or 12 months (Category B) evidence ready at each next visa for salaried employment, or a minimum full financial year's worth of earnings in the self-employment categories F and G. You don't have to apply under the same category again. For example: if you applied under Category B (income 12 months) originally, but at the next visa you have held at least £62,500 saved for 6 months, you can apply under savings Category D.

You just need to be careful when changing jobs during your 5-year visa period to ensure you don't cause some huge break in your employment. The rules are too new yet to see what might happen if an applicant was previously made redundant and has only, say, 3 months employment history in a new job when applying for a next visa extension. I would HOPE there would be some discretion exercised but we won't know about this for perhaps another 2-3 years when people on the new rules start applying for their first extensions. At least the applicant's own employment will also count for the extensions, so that alleviates some pressure.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

saw87 said:


> Sel, let me just correct you there... the cost of living up North is less not the 'standard' of living
> 
> I live in the North East of England and I have to say I still think it would be difficult for two adults to live on £18,600 a year. It wouldn't be impossible but in my opinion it wouldn't be comfortable. I can't imagine there being much, if any, left over after paying out mortgage/rent, council tax, utilities, groceries etc each month and that's in one of the more 'affordable' places to live in the UK.


Yes, exactly that.

Weighing up £18,600 against a general cost of living shows it to be a low salary. I live in a very small house in a very low-cost area of the UK, but our monthly mortgage, bills, commuting and cost of living come close to £2,000 a month. That's without car payment because the poor thing is now 12 years old.


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## MacUK (Jul 3, 2012)

But it's the same here...when I was starting out as a freelancer, I would do the most ridiculous under paid jobs, at minimum wage, but after some time, slowly but surely, I built up a reputation for myself and I could demand a higher price....

But now, as I recently became a mother, my career was put on hold, because I couldn't travel with a small baby. I had to turn down several clients concerning business trips. After that, husband decided to return to the UK, so I was stranded in the middle.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

I imagine it's either the same or far worse anywhere else. No matter how bad the UK has become, there are plenty of worse-off countries close by. 

UKBA wanted a way to simplify entry requirements (I know: 'simplify' seems to be the wrong word when looking at the extensive new rules), but it was thought that a single income figure would be easier to use rather than snap judgements on the state of people's bank balances (old rules).

With jobs at £18,600 as rare as hen's teeth for those not already in a profession, and for those in jobs finding the cost of living so high that their bank balances are non-too-healthy, it begs the question of what measure UKBA could use instead. I don't think I have a better answer.


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## Harun (Jan 27, 2013)

that 18,600 mark depends on each individual couple's situation. They could be living in a flat paying £400 a month then shopping in Aldi and 99p stores while hubby works 5 minutes down the road and the house is on the meter for energy and water. In this case there's plenty.

but 18,600 for a couple who's mortgage is over £600 and hubby commutes to work more than 10 miles a day. and lives in a good a Catchment area where the council tax is high and has a big rear garden which ups your water bill and they only shop in Sainsbury's and Tesco and have Sky HD etc... Then you would struggle.

My point is, depending on the situation £18,600 is a double edged sword.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

Harun said:


> that 18,600 mark depends on each individual couple's situation. They could be living in a flat paying £400 a month then shopping in Aldi and 99p stores while hubby works 5 minutes down the road and the house is on the meter for energy and water. In this case there's plenty.
> 
> but 18,600 for a couple who's mortgage is over £600 and hubby commutes to work more than 10 miles a day. and lives in a good a Catchment area where the council tax is high and has a big rear garden which ups your water bill and they only shop in Sainsbury's and Tesco and have Sky HD etc... Then you would struggle.
> 
> My point is, depending on the situation £18,600 is a double edged sword.


I suppose at the end of the day, UKBA had to draw the line somewhere and they settled on £18,600. From what I understand it was lower than many of the figures that had been proposed and/or speculated upon, and I imagine that figure is only going to go higher in the future.


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## 2farapart (Aug 18, 2011)

Leanna said:


> I suppose at the end of the day, UKBA had to draw the line somewhere and they settled on £18,600. From what I understand it was lower than many of the figures that had been proposed and/or speculated upon, and I imagine that figure is only going to go higher in the future.


Yes, we'd heard about the changes being posed by the Migration Advisory Committee a couple of months before they were confirmed and introduced, and the highest amount recommended was £25,700 (which is closest to the average salary in UK). We fully expected this (the highest figure) to be used, especially as this was just after the 'horror-story' that UK net migration was some 250,000 per year. There was a very long thread about it, with a lot of very worried applicants. At that time, we had no idea whether the rules would apply to everyone, including those already in the UK and part way through the visa process.

We were relieved (and surprised) that the government chose the lowest of the three recommended amounts.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

2farapart said:


> Yes, we'd heard about the changes being posed by the Migration Advisory Committee a couple of months before they were confirmed and introduced, and the highest amount recommended was £25,700 (which is closest to the average salary in UK). We fully expected this (the highest figure) to be used, especially as this was just after the 'horror-story' that UK net migration was some 250,000 per year. There was a very long thread about it, with a lot of very worried applicants. At that time, we had no idea whether the rules would apply to everyone, including those already in the UK and part way through the visa process.
> 
> We were relieved (and surprised) that the government chose the lowest of the three recommended amounts.


And I was very fortunate - I hadn't been on the forum at the time of making my fiance(e) visa application and only read about the changes when I logged on to complete the form and found out that it was a new form with a financial requirement! We were lucky that my now husband earned over the limit, but only by £300 at the time! 

If UKBA had decided on the higher, £25k limit, we would've had to look at settling in my hometown in Canada instead! Now, of course I'm much more on top of immigration news, so I'm better prepared and we have both our incomes, but I probably would've rushed our application through if I'd known about the changes back in July!


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

I guess we all need to deal with the mark of £18,600 and get our brains in gear to work enough hours and earn enough money to meet the requirement because as I've seen I don't think the government has any intentions of changing it and if I'm honest its not that high anyway. It just means a person needs to hold up two jobs if they don't earn enough money in one and work around 63 hours per week ...not to bad right?


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

Sel said:


> I guess we all need to deal with the mark of £18,600 and get our brains in gear to work enough hours and earn enough money to meet the requirement because as I've seen I don't think the government has any intentions of changing it and if I'm honest its not that high anyway. It just means a person needs to hold up two jobs if they don't earn enough money in one and work around 63 hours per week ...not to bad right?


Well, the nice thing about that is the sponsor only has to earn that amount until the non-UK partner is in the UK with permission to work - then they can work and both partner's income counts towards meeting the requirement. Granted that could be more than a year depending on the type of application and the job market, but it isn't forever.


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## Sel (Mar 17, 2013)

Leanna said:


> Well, the nice thing about that is the sponsor only has to earn that amount until the non-UK partner is in the UK with permission to work - then they can work and both partner's income counts towards meeting the requirement. Granted that could be more than a year depending on the type of application and the job market, but it isn't forever.


Definitely there is one positive thing to come out of this  then we don't need to work as many hours and spend quality time together within our married lives. 

Everything is possible when a person wants to achieve it. nothing is impossible especially for the person you want to be with for the rest of our life then you will do anything in your power to make it work.


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

Sel said:


> Definitely there is one positive thing to come out of this  then we don't need to work as many hours and spend quality time together within our married lives.
> 
> Everything is possible when a person wants to achieve it. nothing is impossible especially for the person you want to be with for the rest of our life then you will do anything in your power to make it work.


Couldn't agree more.


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## Pond (Mar 27, 2013)

I agree with it being a human rights issue in some cases. My situation Is that we live in Canada. My husband earns a good wage; $55k but I am a stay at home mum to a toddler and newborn however because the sponsor has to be the one earning 18,500 GBP we cannot apply. I am a British citizen, I just want to live at home with my family and with my husband (Canadian) and children ( who are dual citizens). In the past year my patents have been sick and the thought that I can't be near them is crushing. I could understand if my husband was not making money or if my kids were at school or something but If I want to go home I am forced to put my babies into daycare ( which is a fortune and I'm breastfeeding).


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## Leanna (Oct 22, 2012)

Pond said:


> I agree with it being a human rights issue in some cases. My situation Is that we live in Canada. My husband earns a good wage; $55k but I am a stay at home mum to a toddler and newborn however because the sponsor has to be the one earning 18,500 GBP we cannot apply. I am a British citizen, I just want to live at home with my family and with my husband (Canadian) and children ( who are dual citizens). In the past year my patents have been sick and the thought that I can't be near them is crushing. I could understand if my husband was not making money or if my kids were at school or something but If I want to go home I am forced to put my babies into daycare ( which is a fortune and I'm breastfeeding).


Yes, since the rule changes came into place last July we've seen a lot of people in your situation. I'm afraid there's really no good way out. I definitely understand wanting to be near your ailing parents, though I'm afraid the only way for you to bring your husband back with you is to be earning the requirement yourself and have a promise of work in the UK. Without that, your option would be to return without him and work for 6 months before applying which, with two little ones, isn't really an option. 

If your husband is earning a decent income as you've said, if you can scrimp & save you might be able to pull together the savings requirement, though it would definitely take a number of years to pull together the £62,500 required.


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