# Think Twice BEFORE coming to Australia (WHY YOU SHOULDNT)



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Disclaimer: I'm neither anti-Australian nor a pessimist. This thread aims to bring the stark reality of the job market to newly arriving migrants, particularly those who aim to migrate in 2017

(1) First and foremost, newly arriving migrants have to wait at least 104 weeks (that is 2 years) before you are eligible for any sort of benefits/social payment in Australia. This means that when you arrive here, don't expect the government or anyone to support you financially and help you with anything. People talk the talk, but mostly don't walk the walk.

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/newly-arrived-residents-waiting-period

(2) Housing: It is really expensive to stay on your own here. A shared flat (for a single person) is almost 250/week (suburb in Sydney). On top of that, if you are UNEMPLOYED, you're chances of independently renting out a unit or a house is ZERO. That's because there is a huge demand for housing and employed people with children are on the look out for independent units/homes, so when push comes to shove, homeowners always prefer to rent out their dwelling to people who are employed (This is a no-brainer). Yes, Ive been to a lot of open houses and I'm speaking from my own experience.

(3) Recession/"At the Brink" of Recession: Australia is heading for a recession, with the economy figures for the September quarter indicating a shrink of 0.5 per cent, WORST fall since GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS

Australian economy shrinks 0.5pc in September quarter, worst fall since global financial crisis - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Australia at risk of negative GDP after business investment fall - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
The recession we're already in - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Of course the government and the opposition will not admit that we are already in recession, and would like to instead use the term, "On the brink of recession", whatever the hell that means. All I can say is that it doesn't sound good.

(4) The job market: Now here comes the most important point. I'll try to be as concise as possible, but please feel free to ask specific questions about the points here as I aim to help as much as possible.
- The job market, especially in the IT sector is "over saturated". This is a direct quote from several recruitment consultants. They say that for a job that is posted in seek.com.au, they receive almost 50 resumes in an hour of posting the job! Over 99% of them are from new migrants located in Australia.

- Over 99% of the jobs, even if they do not mention it, ask for LOCAL experience. What does that mean? Personally, I feel it means that they don't want us taking good jobs in Australia and nothing more/nothing less. A lot of people disagree with me saying that it has got to do everything with communication skills and I laugh at that. Although I'm Indian, I've never really worked in India. My entire career, which is of 15 yrs of length, have been in countries in Europe, Middle East and Africa and along the way I've picked up a British accent (partly thanks to my ex too). I also have an 8.5 on my IELTS.

- Positive Interview outcome and offer: Just because you've done well in an interview and they've said that they'll send you the offer letter doesn't mean that they actually will. Personally I've had this experience several times. The reasons for which they may not send you an offer letter, even after they have EXPLICITLY said that they would is:
-- Hiring freeze
-- Lack of budget
-- Chose an "internal" employee over me 
-- Or stop responding to your requests for an update on the offer letter

I can count atleast 5 times this has happened to me in the eight months I've been here. No, it is not my imagination as I have recorded phone calls and e-mails to prove the same.

- Rejection: Most of the time when they reject you they don't give you a real reason. Almost definitely from one of the following statements:
-- "The high standard of applications made the selection task a difficult one and unfortunately, on this occasion, your application has not been successful."
-- "We have reviewed your application and, on this occasion, we will not be taking you through to the next stage of the selection process. We appreciate the interest you have shown in the role and we would encourage you to apply for any future roles which you think may be suitable."
-- "Unfortunately, after careful consideration, we will not be progressing with your application at this time. Based on your application, we have determined that other applicants have a closer skills match specific to the requirements we are seeking."
-- "The selection panel has reviewed all applications received and unfortunately on this occasion you have not been successful. We sincerely appreciate the time and effort you have taken in preparing your application for this vacancy and encourage you to apply for appropriate opportunities"
-- "Regrettably, at present the roles on which we are working are very specific in their demands, and the skills reflected in your résumé would not be a close enough match to reach a shortlist."

What can you do with this feedback? Nothing much. As useful as a pile of dung. The funny thing is that the interviews are not so hard they barely ask anything technical. Why are the interviews aligned in that manner? Well, because, in my opinion, if they were geared towards a point system, it would be hard for them to provide a valid reason for rejection. Instead, they conduct very light interviews and provide very vague rejections. Its a good, smart strategy; doesn't open them up to lawsuits or accusations of discrimination. They just hold their finger in the air and go "Hmmm, i think this fellow (errr) is not suitable."

- 457 visas: These are the smart ones. They come here with minimal effort, take the jobs that are intended for others (Australian companies/businesses encourage it) and then apply for PR and then eventually become citizens. People like me, who have shelled out 1000s of dollars for our PRs and then 1000s more while searching for job get the short end of the stick. Finally, the government has opened their eyes and started to restrict these visas, but it will take a long time before the changes take effect.

- NV1/NV2 security clearance for jobs: Almost certainly, newly arrived migrants cannot apply for any jobs in Canberra. They require you to be a citizen so that you can apply for security clearance and need to be present in Canberra for a period of time (I think 5 years). Also, I don't think us PRs should be left out of this, because while applying for PR, we are submitting our security clearance from countries that we have been to in the past 10 years. Also, with all this resentment with the Chinese government and how they are all about obtaining secrets through hacking, how are the people of Chinese heritage able to obtain a security clearance? Mind boggling!

- Jobs are NOT OPEN every month of the YEAR: There is a specific period during which you can apply for jobs. For instance, there is a total black out period just before and after the end of the financial year. It extends from May to August. No hiring takes place during this time. Hiring also reduces in the month of December (due to the holidays) and picks up only by second week of January. This is a cycle and repeats every year. Therefore expect to sit on your hands and do absolutely nothing during this time.

- Hidden job market - Yes it exists and it contains almost 70%-80% of jobs. These are jobs that are obtained through references, word of mouth etc. etc. Forget about them completely.

.....................contd.....


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

(3) A lot of people without jobs - I wanted to specify this as a separate point, because the overall impression is that the only stumbling block to obtaining a job is your local experience and that time and perseverance will land you a job. That sounds like a guarantee, but let me assure you that it is far from it. There are a lot of people in the IT industry who are still waiting for a job and my friend's niece just left back for home after being unemployed for almost a year. Funnily enough, she was working for an Australian firm as a QA Analyst for over a year before they had to let her go citing cut backs. She was never able to land a job again and was waiting on people at a restaurant for over a year before she called it quits and went back. 

There are many such instances and I'm sure that the only reason why we don't hear more of these stories is because of our cultural roots. We are ashamed to admit that we had to pick up other jobs apart from the ones that we aimed for, as failure is considered our personal drawback. Therefore we quietly observe the ones that have obtained jobs and BLAME OURSELVES for being unemployed. I assure you that we are not an isolated bunch. The government will never acknowledge that there is a shortage of jobs here, even though the latest unemployment figures are steady, it is clear that there has been a reduction of full time jobs. This is a widely acknowledged fact. 

(4) LACK OF SUPPORT: There is always a lack of support over here. In my experience, the migrants who have made it here do not want to help newly migrated residents with their first job. I've been only successful in interviews when the interviewers were liberal Caucasian Australians. To prove my point, here are two experiences (among many) I've had when interviewing in Melbourne:

- A phone interview at a well known university. The guy who interviewed me was of Turkish heritage. All he did was shout at me. To begin with he was 7 minutes late for a 30 minute interview, didn't allow me to answer his question completely and on top of that, he's shouting the questions at me, looking for answers that do not suit him. Asking the same questions over and over again, like a police interview. LOL. To begin with, I was surprised that they called me for an interview, because I didn't have the mandatory certification they had asked for. I think it could be because I was a TOGAF practitioner and had mentioned in my covering letter that I would be appearing for the certification in a few weeks' time. However, in the interview, he kept on harping on the fact that I didn't have the TOGAF certification. Why call me for an interview if you already know that I don't meet the minimum criteria? Well, you can only take advantage of the vulnerable, isn't it? Not surprised when I didn't get a follow up call.

- A Skype interview with a panel of two Caucasian managers and a technical architect of Chinese heritage. The interview was so easy, the gentleman barely asked me anything technical. The HR lady even made me fill out a Criminal check (indicating that I was almost certain to obtain the job). They were so happy with my responses and my skills and they indicated at the end that the outcome would be positive and that I would have to join immediately. My role would be to replace the Technical architect as he gets promoted to another section. He could barely put a sentence of English together and I could already sense that I was technically superior. I've been writing software since I was in my 11th grade and that too at a professional level. By the time I was in college, I had already programmed, delivered and maintained a production ready software. I was in love with coding and programming the day I started learning C++. This job I was interviewing for was right up my alley and I could do it with my eyes blindfolded. I was shocked when I received a call from the HR saying that the Technical Architect deemed I was unfit. LOL. No guesses why. I was always curious why the managers didn't step in to force him to accept me as a candidate

My conclusion from both these experiences? They want to show that they are pro-migrant and will make minimum effort to integrate you to the society. However, they lack the conviction and confidence to really integrate you to their society. They will talk the talk, but won't walk the walk. I mentioned my experiences in Melbourne because as everyone knows, it is the most liberal of all cities here in Australia. Sydney has the most jobs, but Melbourne is the most liberal.

(9) BIGGEST SHOCK OF ALL - The aboriginals here (the first land owners) are STILL NOT RECOGNIZED citizens of this great country.

(8) They need migrants - They need migrants, because migrants will come in and while searching for jobs spend money at the local supermarkets, occupy houses and strengthen their economy. Perth is in recession and the reason is simple, because there is a lack of migrants there and a lot of jobs have been lost. The 2 year waiting period for support from the government is aimed so that migrants can come here, spend some money, look for jobs and maybe give up after a year or so and then go back home. Its very conveniently timed. I assure you a lot of people are going back. It is the truth, whether we like it or not, it is the sad truth. RACISM? Yes, it does exist:

Australian bosses racist: study | Foreign or indigenous names 'decrease job chance'

A foreign or indigenous-sounding name gives people less chance of landing a job in Australia, a study has found. Unless your name sounds Italian and you're in Melbourne, in which case it can be an advantage.

Australian National University researchers Alison Booth, Andrew Leigh and Elena Vargonova sent out 4000 fake job applications to employers advertising on the internet for entry-level hospitality, data entry, customer service and sales jobs, changing only the racial origin of the supposed applicants' names.

Applicants with Chinese names fared the worst, having only a one-in-five chance of getting asked in for interviews, compared to applicants with Anglo-Saxon names whose chances exceeded one-in-three.

Typically a Chinese-named applicant would need to put in 68 per cent more applications than an Anglo-named applicant to get the same number of calls back. A Middle Eastern-named applicant needed 64 per cent more, an indigenous-named applicant 35 per cent more and an Italian-named applicant 12 per cent more.

My final advice planning to come here in the new year: Don't. Make your first visit, get a SIM card with roaming (VODAFONE is the best for this) and apply for jobs outside of Australia and just make sure you put your Australian number as the contact information and indicate that you are in Australia and if they do call just tell them you are visiting your home country for a short time and you'll be back soon. Don't throw away your stellar career and life away from your family for, what seems to be an increasingly intolerant Australia.


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## ArchV (Aug 25, 2013)

I like this type of raw truth. You definitely got a point here. Although some people still refuse to admit, getting into the job market takes a SERIOUS amount of effort and connections. If you ever get into that job market.

Bottom line is migrating to a new country is definitely a serious commitment and you'd better have some connections. Don't be naive to believe on job advertisements on seek.com.au

Thanks for sharing your experience with us.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

ArchV said:


> I like this type of raw truth. You definitely got a point here. Although some people still refuse to admit, getting into the job market takes a SERIOUS amount of effort and connections. If you ever get into that job market.
> 
> Bottom line is migrating to a new country is definitely a serious commitment and you'd better have some connections. Don't be naive to believe on job advertisements on seek.com.au
> 
> Thanks for sharing your experience with us.


You're welcome, ArchV. I know the Finnish, they are very direct and very helpful at the same time. I used to work for a Finnish company, one of the best times of my life!  Everyone who has been there has only good things to say about Finland! 

The intention of this article is to bring out the truth, among all the hi-5-ing here. So easy to get a job, just come, you'll eventually get it. It takes time, but no one talks about the ugly truth. Why should migrants come here and spend a good portion of their savings when no one recognizes them let alone supports or appreciate them? Let them buy a SIM card, activate their international roaming and hunt for jobs abroad. It makes no difference. Why should others make the same mistake that I did?!

Thanks for your support.


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

Awesome right up. I was bitching about not getting Pr , but after reading this I think I am in no hurry. Looks like the best way to go about this is to do a validation trip and see how well does one fare before moving for good.

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

gonnabeexpat said:


> Awesome right up. I was bitching about not getting Pr , but after reading this I think I am in no hurry. Looks like the best way to go about this is to do a validation trip and see how well does one fare before moving for good.
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


Yes, and I would like to reiterate what I said. I'll say this a thousand times if I have to, because I really don't want to see people struggle for no reason.

The intention of this article is to bring out the truth, among all the hi-5-ing here. So easy to get a job, just come, you'll eventually get it, it takes time etc., But no one talks about the ugly truth. Why should migrants come here and spend a good portion of their savings when no one recognizes them let alone supports or appreciate them? 

Come, do your first visit (turn it into a vacation) buy a SIM card (VODAFONE is the best), activate your international roaming and hunt for jobs from abroad. Save your job, your money and your time with your family and if you get a job, you can plan to come quickly. I kick myself every hour of the day for not thinking of this before; but then I had no one to tell me to do so!

Thanks for your support.


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## ashishjain (Oct 18, 2016)

Hi Simon, if you don't mind - could you please provide answer to below questions as well?

- What are your technical skills and how much experience do you possess?
- What was your strategy when you came to Australia?
- How many people did you meet, who has the same experience like you?
- Now after obtaining medicare, a bank account in Australia, local mobile number etc, are you still looking for job in Australia? If yes, then from overseas or onshore.

- Will it possible for you to write another post which targets 'Life/Job Hacks for living/working in Australia'. Though you presented reality but people of this forum will accept hope/positivism/optimism more than anything else as most of them have made up their minds.

I am saying so, because I am surprised to see your post and I wholeheartedly appreciate what you've written however my experience is strikingly different from yours.

I don't know have huge network in Australia but have 8 friends who are well-settled in Brisbane(1), Sydney (2) and Melbourne(5). Of them, the one living in Brisbane was a Quality Tester of web applications and is the only friend who faced challenge in obtaining a job and is now in the field of nursing and before that he used to make pizzas in a restaurant for his living.

Apart from him, all 7 went their on 189 independent visa and secured jobs with in 3 weeks and their job ranges from VBA developer, Web developer, Financial Model Monitoring to Financial Risk Analyst including contractor and permanent.

They all are eager to help me and have nothing worse to tell about which makes me rethink.

Also, see the enlightenment post in my signature. That's another forum member with pros and cons of immigrating to Australia.

I really appreciate you for coming out and sharing your journey/experiences so far. However, if you could answer few more questions for me, that would help me and other forum members further evaluate the prospects of immigrating to Australia. Let me reiterate that your words did totally make sense but is not the complete picture.


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## hasansins (Sep 28, 2016)

Well who said it would be a ride in the flower garden?

Moving to another country without anyone besides you will of course be very difficult at the beginnings but I believe those who work hard and are resiliant will be successful in the end.


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## OctNovDec (Oct 20, 2016)

I appreciate your honesty, but expensive housing and difficult to find employment has become a global phenomenon, almost all major cities are facing this problem. I've lived in India, Saudi and UAE, and let me tell you this problem is prevalent in all 3. Recession or not, it doesn't matter, unemployment has gripped many countries by the throat. Dubai, on a daily basis, creates thousands of jobs, but you will find endless number of immigrants in search of jobs. Some people blame it on the racism that for some jobs the employers won't hire non-Europeans, but even the Europeans are struggling to find a job in Dubai from the past few years. 

There was an article last week that engineers and MBAs cleaned drains in India to qualify for the job of a sweeper/cleaner in a public institution. India is supposed to be this booming economy with exceptional GDP growth in competition with that of China, and companies from around the globe rushing to invest there. Can you actually claim that situation in Australia is worse even with them being "on the brink of recession"? 
MBAs And BTechs Clean Drains To Qualify As Sweepers In Uttar Pradesh: Report
17000 MBAs, B Techs apply for 114 sweeper jobs in UP | The Indian Express

I feel your pain and frustration in not finding a job, but then again the forum is filled with dozens of stories with people getting jobs in no time. Some of those people aren't so well-versed with English either, their mistakes apparent in the posts they are making. Some of us will just have to try harder, go deeper, hit fiercer. I hope that you find a job soon, and the next post that you make is of your journey in claiming it.


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## Huss81 (May 17, 2013)

So when migrating to a new country, do you expect it to be a walk in the garden? There will be disappointments and there will be obstructions, but you make a provision for all such contingencies. I have been in Australia for two or more years now and honestly, I have not come across any racism. I have got interview calls and have got a job too (Finance Background) in a very short time. 

Have you tried taking up or applying for a lower level job? Or doing a casual job till the time you get a permanent one? Or is it way below your standard to do something like this cause you have worked all over the world??

And why does it bother you if they accept Indigenous as their own or not? Have you tried doing that? Have you voluntereed with any Indigenous organisation? Have you tried being part of the Aussie culture by networking? 

I have colleagues who are Aussies and they are some of the most tolerant people I have come across. From your post, I am sorry, but it sounds more like a case of sour grapes on not being able to get a job that you desire.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

ashishjain said:


> - What are your technical skills and how much experience do you possess?


First of all, congratulations to your friends for finding a job quickly in Australia. I'll answer your questions as candidly as possible:

In my last role I was a Lead Solution Architect with a good mix of Enterprise, Cloud and Software Architecture. I have almost 15 years of international experience and I am AWS Cloud Solution certified, TOGAF 9.1 certified, ITILv3 and PMI-ACP (Agile) certified. I have Project Management experience, I'm an expert in Linux, hybrid cloud, a lot of Infrastructure and JAVA/J2EE experience, and a very hands on person. I have absolutely had no negative feedback from my resume. Everyone who sees it says its quite impressive and I'm the kind of person who can find a job quickly in Australia. Although my last role was in the Telecom domain, I am a generalist Solution Architect and can fit in any vertical and that is evident by the number of calls/interviews I receive.



ashishjain said:


> - What was your strategy when you came to Australia?


Apply for all relevant jobs. I've applied for jobs that were not relevant also so that they could store my resume in their database and call me when an appropriate opportunity arises. That strategy has worked well for me because all the contracting agencies have my resume and they call me whenever they see a potential match.



ashishjain said:


> - How many people did you meet, who has the same experience like you?


A lot of people. I have met with consultants at their offices and they open up to me, well, because I'm outgoing, friendly and contrary to what my post will lead you to believe, , a pleasant person to hang out with. Here are two experiences that I can recall from my recent memory:

-- I went to meet this lady at a consultancy whose offices are at the Harbour bridge. She wanted to see in person to evaluate me and when she was done, told me that I was the best candidate she came across in a long time (local or otherwise)! She then went on to explain that they were also frustrated because the clients would send them the JD, and she would pass the resumes along, but there would be no further feedback from the client's end. Since they don't get any feedback from the client, they dont have anything to pass on to us and we don't get any feedback. She told me that there are atleast a dozen Indians and a dozen Chineese that have applied for the same position. The job market is saturated. No doubt about it. Another consultant confirmed this in writing. I have e-mails to prove it.

-- The second week I arrived here, I got a call from a consultancy for a well known Telecom company in Australia. If I were to put my profile/resume (without modification) next to the JD, it would be a perfect match. I interviewed with the CTO/Director of the consultancy and he was convinced that I was a perfect fit in the organisation and culture (he himself was an ex-employee of the prospective company) and sent his Manager to the organisation to convice them to hire me. After 3 weeks, they reverted back saying that they found some internal. What got me then was the DECEPTION. Why advertise a role that was accessible to both internals and the general public? Usually, jobs are only posted in the public domain when the companies cannot fill it internally. 



ashishjain said:


> - Now after obtaining medicare, a bank account in Australia, local mobile number etc, are you still looking for job in Australia? If yes, then from overseas or onshore.


I am still in Sydney looking for a job. I have invested too much time, money and energy and its too late for me to make a drastic change back to my old life. I also have an Australian Class C drivers' license - its one of the most difficult things to obtain and I passed my Drivers' License on my first attempt and after a gruelling 1 hour - usually the test only takes about 15-20 minutes.

My advise to you is, dont make the drastic move to Australia; use your contacts to land a job first and then make the trip here. Of course, if you are Muslim, then don't make the move because this is not a good place for Muslims in the long term. Please let me know how I can help fill the void in your knowledge about job seeking in Australia.


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## evets (Dec 7, 2015)

Interesting post Simon, and have to say I agree with a lot of the items you have mentioned since I have been looking for a new role the last year.

The rejection part of your post, I think we must have had the same recruiters  or maybe they all have standard templates they copy and paste from!!!

From what I understand the market generally is a bit of a freeze December till early Feb, Australia day end of January has an impact. This is what I got told by colleagues and recruiters.

Housing costs, well you have chosen to live in one of the most expensive cities in the world. And wage growth is pretty stagnant at the moment, not rising like house prices. If only it would... I personally do not think the wages on offer in Sydney do not really reflect the true cost of living.

And yes I agree the job market here for IT is pretty saturated, lots of locals already complaining about the 457 rorts and how difficult it is for them to find work. 

I see many Indians driving taxis who have far more qualifications than myself and cannot get a break into the IT market.

The mining boom crash has certainly not helped WA, and other expat forums I am on I read how many going back to there home country as struggling to find work here. Only so long you can go with out a job before you decide to look further afield.

Australia is in an interesting place with itself at the moment, high cost of living, high cost of wages, companies looking for ways to offshore or outsource to cut costs or reduce overhead. IT is going/has gone through a dramatic change the last few years with the cloud, thus reducing the need for as many people to look after the resources.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Huss81 said:


> So when migrating to a new country, do you expect it to be a walk in the garden? There will be disappointments and there will be obstructions, but you make a provision for all such contingencies. I have been in Australia for two or more years now and honestly, I have not come across any racism. I have got interview calls and have got a job too (Finance Background) in a very short time.


Personally I do not expect you to understand it, because this is my experience; the experience of someone who couldn't find a job, not because he is not qualified; ONLY because there aren't much opportunities. What I've written are what I've experienced since MARCH-2016, NOT 2 years ago. That is the key distinction here. This year has been bad and that is evident by reduction in the total number of FULL-TIME jobs in the recent unemployment figures. You can argue that the unemployment figures are at the lowest since many years; but critics will tell you that this is due to the increase in casual jobs owing to the holiday seasons. 

I expect obstructions and I disagree that I have to plan for all possible contingencies. I'm a citizen of a democratic, republic, socialist country. I'm not a government official who has access to confidential information that can help me predict the dire straits of the Australian economy. I couldnt predict that Turnbull would come back with a minority Parliament. I couldnt predict BREXIT. I couldnt predict Trumps victory into the seat of the President of the United States. Assuming that these did not have an effect on the economy and jobs is just being in denial.

Look at what the Australian media has reported today. Turnbull "pleading" not to have credit rating downgraded. Jobs are only created by business investment or confidence in the government. What do you think this news is going to do for investor confidence and jobs here?



Huss81 said:


> Have you tried taking up or applying for a lower level job? Or doing a casual job till the time you get a permanent one? Or is it way below your standard to do something like this cause you have worked all over the world??


Wow. It's all my fault isn't it? I didn't come here to be told that I need LOCAL experience to be CONSIDERED for a job that I am QUALIFIED for. That is what I hold an issue with. Not my willingness or my unwillingness to start small or causual jobs. Mind you, seeking a job in my field is a full time job in itself (if you read this forum closely there are testaments to that). My consultant friends tell me that they are OVERWHELMED with resumes and usually close their search within AH HOUR or so OF POSTING THE JOB, if they find a suitable candidate! In addition, to help with my chances, I'm finishing up all certifications that are relevant to my job (it's not cheap to be certified). I'm skilled already, but if this helps me find a job sooner, then that's what I have to do. I just applied for the NSW Police last week and I had to spend 3 days filling up the selection criteria!



Huss81 said:


> I have colleagues who are Aussies and they are some of the most tolerant people I have come across. From your post, I am sorry, but it sounds more like a case of sour grapes on not being able to get a job that you desire.


Have you gone through the links that I have posted? I didn't write those articles. Those articles were written by Australians in Australia. You are making an emotional outburst devoid of structure and facts. As I explained clearly in my post, there are a lot of hi5-ing here in this forum about the positives here and don't address the ugly underbelly of the job market.

Moreover, I haven't asked anyone to stop applying for jobs in Australia. All I've asked them to do is to NOT give up their means of living and CONFIDENTLY ASSUME that they will get a job here once they arrive. That's all I did. I asked them to take a SIM card and apply from abroad. I'm aiming to help here. I could have kept quiet and let more unsuspecting souls to come to Australia, become disheartened and go back. At least with my approach they have the best of both worlds. 

I will call from my own experience. I was walking back the other day from the Indian supermarket and I had grown a beard. People tell me I look like a Muslim if I grow a beard; nevertheless as I was walking back to Wentworthville Station, two skin heads start to follow me. As I stop to let them pass, surprise, surprise.. they say "****ing Muslim"! 



Huss81 said:


> And why does it bother you if they accept Indigenous as their own or not? Have you tried doing that? Have you voluntereed with any Indigenous organisation?


Why shouldn't I be bothered? I intend to make Australia my home, become a citizen eventually and in my experience, (my global insight that you despise so much), you can tell a lot about a society by the way it treats its under privileged. I didnt quite understand your point about volunteering for an Indigenous organisation. What does that have to do with anything? I am amused that they are willing to spend millions of dollars on a plebiscite for same-sex marraige and thrust that issue in the spotlight than sort out something so obvious



Huss81 said:


> Have you tried being part of the Aussie culture by networking?


Networking? Do you mean by talking to people, obtaining their e-mail address, phone number, talking to them, meeting up with them and building a relationship? WHAT THE F DO YOU THINK I HAVE BEEN DOING HERE?


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## Huss81 (May 17, 2013)

Then may be you should say that your post pertains only to IT people and not everyone. Cause Finance jobs are available in all parts of Australia - even the rural parts if you are willing to go and stay there!



Simon Matthew said:


> Personally I do not expect you to understand it, because this is my experience; the experience of someone who couldn't find a job, not because he is not qualified; ONLY because there aren't much opportunities. What I've written are what I've experienced since MARCH-2016, NOT 2 years ago. That is the key distinction here. This year has been bad and that is evident by reduction in the total number of FULL-TIME jobs in the recent unemployment figures. You can argue that the unemployment figures are at the lowest since many years; but critics will tell you that this is due to the increase in casual jobs owing to the holiday seasons.
> 
> I expect obstructions and I disagree that I have to plan for all possible contingencies. I'm a citizen of a democratic, republic, socialist country. I'm not a government official who has access to confidential information that can help me predict the dire straits of the Australian economy. I couldnt predict that Turnbull would come back with a minority Parliament. I couldnt predict BREXIT. I couldnt predict Trumps victory into the seat of the President of the United States. Assuming that these did not have an effect on the economy and jobs is just being in denial.
> 
> ...


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

evets said:


> Interesting post Simon, and have to say I agree with a lot of the items you have mentioned since I have been looking for a new role the last year. The rejection part of your post, I think we must have had the same recruiters  or maybe they all have standard templates they copy and paste from!!!


Don't you know it!  



evets said:


> From what I understand the market generally is a bit of a freeze December till early Feb, Australia day end of January has an impact. This is what I got told by colleagues and recruiters.
> 
> Housing costs, well you have chosen to live in one of the most expensive cities in the world. And wage growth is pretty stagnant at the moment, not rising like house prices. If only it would... I personally do not think the wages on offer in Sydney do not really reflect the true cost of living.
> 
> ...


Yes, you are absolutely on the money here. Exactly the point of my thread, to be honest with you. Before they jump on a plane with their family ( oh yeah, some do that) just test the waters and look for the opportunities from ashore. There are still a lot of IT jobs out there, but I can underline two major factors as issues for new arrivals:

- Local experience that they claim is necessary to get your foot into the market, but no one is willing to provide you with! Talk about a Catch22 situation. 
- The elusive job market where 80% of the jobs/opportunities are finalized using Networks. This is from the Government's migrant welcome pack! 



evets said:


> And yes I agree the job market here for IT is pretty saturated, lots of locals already complaining about the 457 rorts and how difficult it is for them to find work. I see many Indians driving taxis who have far more qualifications than myself and cannot get a break into the IT market.


I am not unwilling to take up small jobs. The issue I have is with the principle of taking up something that I hadn't dreamed of contemplating. This is partly due to the DECEPTION. That's what I can't digest. Look at the first statement in the link:

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/newly-arrived-residents-waiting-period

"From 1 January 2017, new arrivals to Australia may have to wait before getting a payment.
Read more about Removal of exemptions for the newly arrived resident’s waiting period"

What does that imply? That statement implies that if migrants were to hurry and arrive in Australia before the end of the year (2016), they could be eligible for payments, isn't it? At some point you've got to start questioning the big picture. It may be my professional inclination in consulting to think so, but I'm starting to get the feeling that they want migrants here to come and spend money even if it means that they have to go back after a certain amount of time without finding a job!

Our money here fuels the economy. That's a fact and there is no denying that. Can you imagine going through all of this BS with small children and your wife desperately looking for a break?


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Huss81 said:


> Then may be you should say that your post pertains only to IT people and not everyone. Cause Finance jobs are available in all parts of Australia - even the rural parts if you are willing to go and stay there!


You are entitled to your own opinion but I'm afraid I can't change anything in my thread, for now, because I want to people to take a good look at the situation and throw caution to the wind. It doesn't hurt to investigate the current situation on ground.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

hasansins said:


> Well who said it would be a ride in the flower garden?
> 
> Moving to another country without anyone besides you will of course be very difficult at the beginnings but I believe those who work hard and are resiliant will be successful in the end.


Contrary to popular belief, riding in a flower garden is a very difficult task. Riding on a flat surface without any obstruction, now that's a different story.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

OctNovDec said:


> I appreciate your honesty, but expensive housing and difficult to find employment has become a global phenomenon, almost all major cities are facing this problem. I've lived in India, Saudi and UAE, and let me tell you this problem is prevalent in all 3. Recession or not, it doesn't matter, unemployment has gripped many countries by the throat. Dubai, on a daily basis, creates thousands of jobs, but you will find endless number of immigrants in search of jobs. Some people blame it on the racism that for some jobs the employers won't hire non-Europeans, but even the Europeans are struggling to find a job in Dubai from the past few years.
> 
> There was an article last week that engineers and MBAs cleaned drains in India to qualify for the job of a sweeper/cleaner in a public institution. India is supposed to be this booming economy with exceptional GDP growth in competition with that of China, and companies from around the globe rushing to invest there. Can you actually claim that situation in Australia is worse even with them being "on the brink of recession"?
> MBAs And BTechs Clean Drains To Qualify As Sweepers In Uttar Pradesh: Report
> ...


Thank you for your post and consolation. I know you don't know me, but I'm pretty resilient and can ride this out. Honestly, that was not the intention of my post. Firstly, I didn't have to be here. I'm not the citizen of a country that is picked apart by extremists or under the virtual rule of the US and Israel.  I'm a citizen of a social, democratic, republic and I'm proud of my heritage. I didnt have to run away from there! LOL. If I were given the choice and made aware of the real economic situation, I would have stayed in my previous and applied remotely. It seems to make no difference now that I'm here on the ground.

I like to work and work hard. I don't like to get high on drugs or **** whores. I'm putting my time to good use by studying whatever I can, so that in the future I can be super qualified for the area I'm looking for. I want to be the best. That's the reason why I came to this country; and the reason I believe others want to come here too. If you were jobless to begin with, you can be jobless here as well. Nothing to lose, correct?

Yes, and I would like to reiterate what I said. I'll say this a thousand times if I have to, because I really don't want to see people struggle for no reason.

The intention of this article is to bring out the truth, among all the hi-5-ing here.... So easy to get a job, just come, you'll eventually get it, it takes time but you'll nail it etc., But no one talks about the ugly truth. Why should migrants come here and spend a good portion of their savings when no one recognizes them let alone supports or appreciate them? 

Come, do your first visit (turn it into a vacation) buy a SIM card (VODAFONE is the best), activate your international roaming and hunt for jobs from abroad. Save your job, your money and your time with your family and if you get a job, you can plan to come quickly. I kick myself every hour of the day for not thinking of this before; but then I had no one to tell me to do so!


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## lollymolly (Oct 13, 2015)

the answer is simple as that the last years there was a rush from lots of people to work and study in the IT section and that's the problem this section now it saturated but the people who work in it is increasing specially Indians and Chinese that's why I think in a different situation with a different field you would have found a job quit easily say in construction or engineering field its not this case 
hope you can find the suitable job for you soon


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

lollymolly said:


> the answer is simple as that the last years there was a rush from lots of people to work and study in the IT section and that's the problem this section now it saturated but the people who work in it is increasing specially Indians and Chinese that's why I think in a different situation with a different field you would have found a job quit easily say in construction or engineering field its not this case
> hope you can find the suitable job for you soon


Yes, thank you for your support lollymolly and that's exactly the intention of my post. Make everyone aware that it's not a walk in the park. There is a real crisis on going in Australia and before anyone throws away their life and arrives here, think twice. You can't say that you haven't been warned!


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## SamQS (Aug 15, 2012)

Many thanks for your posts. Really appreciate your effort sharing your experience.

However, the link you have shared with regard to the waiting periods only states that certain exemptions have been removed (new arrivals who have family members living in Australia). As I remember the two year eligibility was there for years now. I remember reading on the website advising the migrants to bring funds sufficient for at least two years. In fact, who expects to receive such payments upon arrival?








Simon Matthew said:


> Don't you know it!
> 
> https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/newly-arrived-residents-waiting-period
> 
> ...


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

SamQS said:


> Many thanks for your posts. Really appreciate your effort sharing your experience.
> 
> However, the link you have shared with regard to the waiting periods only states that certain exemptions have been removed (new arrivals who have family members living in Australia). As I remember the two year eligibility was there for years now. I remember reading on the website advising the migrants to bring funds sufficient for at least two years. In fact, who expects to receive such payments upon arrival?


Yes, precisely my point. Don't you think it gives the impression that if one were to arrive in Australia before 1-Jan-2017, they could avail of the benefits?

Btw, it used to be that you just had to wait for 2 weeks or something trivial. Experienced members can shed more light. Those were the good old days.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

who said the aboriginals are not citizens?


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Here is another news about the financial situation in Australia. Please refer to 9 news (9Finance) facebook page for more details:

"In the last financial year almost 9500 companies went bust."

I'm unable to post the link for some reason.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> who said the aboriginals are not citizens?


Not recognized in the constitution.

INDIGENOUS RECOGNITION AND CONSTITUTIONAL MYTHS - Constitutional Critique
http://www.recognise.org.au/why/why-recognition/


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

Simon Matthew said:


> Don't you know it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is just a rumour right ?

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

gonnabeexpat said:


> This is just a rumour right ?
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


Rumor? How do you mean? Dont be lazy, , just because you are on a Redmi Note 3 doesn't mean you shouldn't type complete meaningful sentences.


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

Simon Matthew said:


> Rumor? How do you mean? Dont be lazy, , just because you are on a Redmi Note 3 doesn't mean you shouldn't type complete meaningful sentences.


Gahhh you called me out  . Anyhow the thing about future residents going to be put in probation, that hasn't been confirmed right?

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

gonnabeexpat said:


> Gahhh you called me out  . Anyhow the thing about future residents going to be put in probation, that hasn't been confirmed right?
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


We already have to wait 2 years for any sort of benefits. Now they've taken away the family benefits too, starting from 1-Jan-2017. That's not a rumor. Its from official Australian government website.


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

Simon Matthew said:


> We already have to wait 2 years for any sort of benefits. Now they've taken away the family benefits too, starting from 1-Jan-2017. That's not a rumor. Its from official Australian government website.


Iam sorry, I was not aware of this.  . So apart from no time restrictions, an individual Pr holder doesn't have any other benefits is it?. I can't even get universal health care benefits as well?

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

True; I am confused too. 3 of my friend's in PR/ Banking and HR got offers in a month time. 

Simon- May be you got little unlucky in the search and by no means, you would lie to the forum members on your experience. Had you been so happy, may be you would have made us jealous by boosting about your job offer. You can change your strategy a bit. I am in HR, sometimes, we reject people, if we find them overqualified too..and yes, I am serious..So may be alter your resume per the JD and build linkedin network with locals there. We feel an overqualified person will not work as an Individual contributor.

I am not in Australia, so it will be dumb to suggest you more but from my HR experience;I will suggest to contact locals in Australia. I am surprised, few of the people in Darwin, Sydney and Melbourne responded to me in Linkedin and they were all locals..so just try to change the strategy a bit and see the difference..


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## mnmedipa (Sep 9, 2016)

Simon Matthew said:


> We already have to wait 2 years for any sort of benefits. Now they've taken away the family benefits too, starting from 1-Jan-2017. That's not a rumor. Its from official Australian government website.


This is news even to me...What about people who have stayed in Australian on different visas and then got PR?


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## mnmedipa (Sep 9, 2016)

Every one in Australia would agree with Simon's views...The only ones who think Australia is a money making and jobs factory are the lucky few who leave their jobs in home country,come to Australia directly on PR and get jobs in a month...All those ppl must know that you are the few and the people facing tough time finding jobs are many...
I came here on a student visa and worked so hard in so many part time jobs being awake countless nights working for less pays dealing with so many idiots..Every international student mostly from Asia would have undergone exploitation in Australia at some point or the other...I know the effort it takes...Also Australian Universities are business companies where education has no place...
I have found a permanent job recently as an engineer but even now if given a chance to go back in time I would go back and never come to Australia even though I have a job now...I would go to USA or Germany...They are countries which dont treat you as cash cows and give scholarships and free education for the meritorious...


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## ibbz87 (Jun 30, 2016)

although the writer's post might have some weights to it but what makes me surprised is that even though he finds Australia a nightmare and mentions so many people leaving the country, why on earth he is still insisting on himsepf settling in australia and his ultimate goal is to become citizen and bla bla.
mate if its that bad then why bother becoming a citizen then? why dont you go back too?
you mentioned racism and all, it is every where not just in australia.
I have spent a lot of time in europe too and racism is everywhere.
If we observe ourselves, we have more racist people in our countries then the first world countries.
So man if you find it so bad then please leave rhe country rather than insisting on staying there and acquiring the citizenship.
This would make your post more serious because when after writing such a lengthy post when you say oh no i wanna stay here, that gives away everything

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


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## OctNovDec (Oct 20, 2016)

mnmedipa said:


> Every one in Australia would agree with Simon's views...The only ones who think Australia is a money making and jobs factory are the lucky few who leave their jobs in home country,come to Australia directly on PR and get jobs in a month...All those ppl must know that you are the few and the people facing tough time finding jobs are many...
> I came here on a student visa and worked so hard in so many part time jobs being awake countless nights working for less pays dealing with so many idiots..Every international student mostly from Asia would have undergone exploitation in Australia at some point or the other...I know the effort it takes...Also Australian Universities are business companies where education has no place...
> I have found a permanent job recently as an engineer but even now if given a chance to go back in time I would go back and never come to Australia even though I have a job now...I would go to USA or Germany...They are countries which dont treat you as cash cows and give scholarships and free education for the meritorious...


My friend, I'm assuming from your signature that you are yet to get your PR. Non-PR holders' struggle is well-documented and well-known to even us off-shore aspirants. Hopefully things will get better for you once you get the PR. 

Secondly, USA will treat you worse than a cash cow. I can't say about Germany, but if you think the US is better than Australia then I'd just say you don't know what you're talking about.


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## ALVINPHD (Dec 14, 2016)

Thanks for sharing your experience and the reality .


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## queensland (Oct 29, 2014)

Do not sound like a loser and every one is different. I have been in this country for a while on various visa types and I absolutely understand how hard it is to find a job for a living. But think positive and try harder, who knows you would find one soon.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

ibbz87 said:


> although the writer's post might have some weights to it but what makes me surprised is that even though he finds Australia a nightmare and mentions so many people leaving the country, why on earth he is still insisting on himsepf settling in australia and his ultimate goal is to become citizen and bla bla.
> mate if its that bad then why bother becoming a citizen then? why dont you go back too?
> you mentioned racism and all, it is every where not just in australia.
> I have spent a lot of time in europe too and racism is everywhere.
> ...


That's not the point of my post, really. My first sentence of that post was that I wasn't anti-Australian or a pessimist. Did you miss that? I am not asking you NOT to look for jobs in Australia; all I'm asking you to do is
- Look for jobs remotely while still keeping your job. Please read my post about purchasing an international SIM card and searching for jobs remotely. 
- Take the situation on ground with a pinch of salt. Things are not what they seem. What I have provided as links to articles are the reality of the Australian market place/work environment.

Personally, I'm not going to give up. I have too much vested here (money, time and energy wise). I'm going to fight the establishment and get what I came here for. If I have to proceed legally, I will do that too. I know it may not give me the results that I'm looking for, but it will certainly make some noise and hopefully trigger some change.

My post is to provide a reality check for wannabe expats. Do you watch Australian news daily/hourly? No, you don't because you don't have access to it. You are a telecommunications engineer, let me give you a picture of 2 major Telecom companies in Australia:
-- Telstra has had a very bad year because it had to pay millions of dollars in compensation to its subscribers due to its poor network. The CEO also has made some strategic decisions that sent their stock crashing in September. Hiring has been slow there.
-- Optus is undergoing a strategy realignment and a lot of jobs have been lost there too. Guess what the status of new hiring at that firm is?

What makes you think that you know better about the job market here than someone who is already here?. Look at the responses I'm receiving. People from Scotland, Finland; they all agree with me. I have posted links that contain information about the ground reality. 

Please read that link about the discrimination from Australian bosses. If you have a Muslim name, your struggle to find a job will be much harder. THIS IS A FACT. 

Just ask yourself this question: Why are you being unreasonably optimistic about finding a job in Australia? 

I could keep quiet and let all of you come here and suffer, but I chose not to. If you want to prove me wrong at your own peril, be my guest. I can only care so much.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

bright future said:


> I will agree that you have raised some very important points, specially the Australian experience part! But having said that I was able to land a job within 1 month of looking for jobs. Although, it was in banking sector.
> 
> I also know some of my acquaintances who had arrived at the same time who got jobs in IT fields literally within a week! But the most important thing is every person is different and you can not generalise based on one person's experience.
> 
> ...


Thank you, but again I NEVER said that Australia isn't great. However, the Australian dream itself is slipping. How can you, an expat, say that the Australian dream is alive, when locals (Caucassian Australians who've lived here for ages). The banking sector is strong now, but you know very that if Royal Commission or something similar pops up, that sector will be hit badly.

The sad reality is that your post has received more likes than my post, even though yours doesn't contain any concrete proof or number or statistics. I'm taking time away from my life(time I can invest in studies and job seeking) to give potential expats a look at the stark reality. It's not a walk in the park.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Giri vishnu said:


> True; I am confused too. 3 of my friend's in PR/ Banking and HR got offers in a month time.
> 
> Simon- May be you got little unlucky in the search and by no means, you would lie to the forum members on your experience. Had you been so happy, may be you would have made us jealous by boosting about your job offer. You can change your strategy a bit. I am in HR, sometimes, we reject people, if we find them overqualified too..and yes, I am serious..So may be alter your resume per the JD and build linkedin network with locals there. We feel an overqualified person will not work as an Individual contributor.
> 
> I am not in Australia, so it will be dumb to suggest you more but from my HR experience;I will suggest to contact locals in Australia. I am surprised, few of the people in Darwin, Sydney and Melbourne responded to me in Linkedin and they were all locals..so just try to change the strategy a bit and see the difference..


Response is one thing, landing an offer is another. I get calls Everyday; not one or two, multiple calls. Just as I was typing this message, I got a call for an interview. This month is supposed to be the quietest time in the hiring period, yet I receive calls. Whether or not this will materialize into an interview and eventually an offer, only time will tell.

Why are you surprised?  Because, you've been sold on the Australian dream. The dream of a house, good job, great education and land of candy and fairies. Read the posts here, the posts that I haven't countered back and will give you a look at the Australian reality.

I'm watching the news now. Unemployment is up a tick today.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

mnmedipa said:


> Every one in Australia would agree with Simon's views...The only ones who think Australia is a money making and jobs factory are the lucky few who leave their jobs in home country,come to Australia directly on PR and get jobs in a month...All those ppl must know that you are the few and the people facing tough time finding jobs are many...
> I came here on a student visa and worked so hard in so many part time jobs being awake countless nights working for less pays dealing with so many idiots..Every international student mostly from Asia would have undergone exploitation in Australia at some point or the other...I know the effort it takes...Also Australian Universities are business companies where education has no place...
> I have found a permanent job recently as an engineer but even now if given a chance to go back in time I would go back and never come to Australia even though I have a job now...I would go to USA or Germany...They are countries which dont treat you as cash cows and give scholarships and free education for the meritorious...


I feel for you and congratulations on making it eventually. The reality of education sector here is that they are sitting on huge reserves of cash(a majority of them from outside Australia), but if you try to apply for an IT job, some of them ask for local experience and don't consider us fresh migrants for their positions. 

Sometimes I laugh at the hypocrisy in this country; too bad they aren't laughters of happiness.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

gonnabeexpat said:


> Iam sorry, I was not aware of this.  . So apart from no time restrictions, an individual Pr holder doesn't have any other benefits is it?. I can't even get universal health care benefits as well?
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


Medicare is not free (there is a specific tax for Medicare). It's free only if you are unemployed. LOL. On top of that you are obliged to take medical insurance; if one doesn't, they are taxed an additional amount of money every year.

Moreover the current government has watered down Medicare benefits, especially changes to bulk billing that it is almost recognizable as a social benefit anymore. However, if you have an emergency, like a heart attack or a stroke (God forbid), they'll treat you immediately with your Medicare card.


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## mnmedipa (Sep 9, 2016)

Simon Matthew said:


> I feel for you and congratulations on making it eventually. The reality of education sector here is that they are sitting on huge reserves of cash(a majority of them from outside Australia), but if you try to apply for an IT job, some of them ask for local experience and don't consider us fresh migrants for their positions.
> 
> Sometimes I laugh at the hypocrisy in this country; too bad they aren't laughters of happiness.


Surprisingly IT code is universally same and Engineering codes vary.... I thought hiring immigrants in IT would make more sense... Irony 

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

queensland said:


> Do not sound like a loser and every one is different. I have been in this country for a while on various visa types and I absolutely understand how hard it is to find a job for a living. But think positive and try harder, who knows you would find one soon.


Thank you. That's also one of the reasons for this post. Our cultural roots dictate to take every rejection personally and blame ourselves for failure. My post is targeted for asians and assure them that the problem is not completely theirs; a good portion of the blame goes to the economy and the mindset of the people here too.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

OctNovDec said:


> My friend, I'm assuming from your signature that you are yet to get your PR. Non-PR holders' struggle is well-documented and well-known to even us off-shore aspirants. Hopefully things will get better for you once you get the PR.
> 
> Secondly, USA will treat you worse than a cash cow. I can't say about Germany, but if you think the US is better than Australia then I'd just say you don't know what you're talking about.


There is no guarantee for students. Up until a month ago 457 visas were safe; now they aren't. The government targeted the 457 visa holders because of the community outcry and lack of opportunity for residents here. 

Who knows, they might target student visas next?! Nothing is guaranteed.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Personally, I want to thank you all for the intellectual discussions. I miss that, owing to my long absence from the work place. Overall the response has been engaging. I do not shut down criticism, provided it is constructive; in fact I welcome it.

<*SNIP*> *Inappropriate comments - see Rule 1, here: http://www.expatforum.com/expats/general-expat-discussions/2397-forum-rules.html kaju/moderator
*
Thank you again.


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## mnmedipa (Sep 9, 2016)

People especially Indians have this common misconception that you have to work hard and struggle to get a decent job in Australia... But working smart is required here... Instead of struggling for years getting a job in Australia list out different countries and the country with least resistance towards a job..different people will have different requirements... For some money is important for some reputation for some family welfare... use forums like this and social networking to know about other countries... . I am surprised how ppl especially with families are ready to leave everything and come to Australia with no proper planning in case things don't work out... Hard work is fine but without a path it's useless... And ultimately demand must exist... No matter how good you are if there are no opportunities then it doesn't matter... 

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

mnmedipa said:


> Surprisingly IT code is universally same and Engineering codes vary.... I thought hiring immigrants in IT would make more sense... Irony
> 
> Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk


As we talk this out, you see the point that I'm trying to make. Here is a typical checklist for landing a job in Australia:

- Communication Skills
- Education
- Right attitude
- Certifications
- Local experience

Check, Check, Check, Check and CAN'T CHECK.  How are you supposed to obtain local experience if you are not local to begin with. Also, the government in its Migrant Welcome Pack states that almost 80% of the jobs are filled using Networking (a niche that's only available for those that are in the market already). Is that fair? NO. Do we have to put up with it? I don't think so. 

I'm still contemplating what to do to change this next. I consider myself as a social activist in this situation.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

mnmedipa said:


> People especially Indians have this common misconception that you have to work hard and struggle to get a decent job in Australia... But working smart is required here... Instead of struggling for years getting a job in Australia list out different countries and the country with least resistance towards a job..different people will have different requirements... For some money is important for some reputation for some family welfare... use forums like this and social networking to know about other countries... . I am surprised how ppl especially with families are ready to leave everything and come to Australia with no proper planning in case things don't work out... Hard work is fine but without a path it's useless... And ultimately demand must exist... No matter how good you are if there are no opportunities then it doesn't matter...
> 
> Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk


Amen, especially on the "I am surprised how ppl especially with families are ready to leave everything and come to Australia with no proper planning in case things don't work out".

Remember, we have to shell out more money to get Australian dollars. The currency is one of the strongest in the world.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

mnmedipa said:


> People especially Indians have this common misconception that you have to work hard and struggle to get a decent job in Australia... But working smart is required here... Instead of struggling for years getting a job in Australia list out different countries and the country with least resistance towards a job..different people will have different requirements... For some money is important for some reputation for some family welfare... use forums like this and social networking to know about other countries... . I am surprised how ppl especially with families are ready to leave everything and come to Australia with no proper planning in case things don't work out... Hard work is fine but without a path it's useless... And ultimately demand must exist... No matter how good you are if there are no opportunities then it doesn't matter...
> 
> Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk


Also, I want to add something. What I've said and what you are saying is just logical. Purely logical. There is no exaggeration in my posts. I never do that lest I should open myself up to legal ramifications.

Also, those on PRs can wait up to 4 years to move permanently, after the first visit is done, that is. So, there is really no rush, if you think about it. I'm only against dropping everything one has, possibly a great life, and rushing over to live the Australian dream, when the reality is that the Australian dream itself is slowly dying.

Remember, what goes up, must come down.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Just In: 
Shadow Federal Minister giving a press conference on the last economy figures:
- 46,000 reduction in full time jobs
- People participation rate (Thats an indication of unemployed people looking for work) has reduced by 0.5%. This means that more people are giving up looking for work.
- WA/Perth has the second highest unemployment figure in the country at 6.9%; a personal low for WA since 2003
- More mortgage defaults
- Unemployment rate has increased to 5.7%

I wonder what Turnbull's government will do now.


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## Huss81 (May 17, 2013)

I hope you have a back-up plan to go back to India or any other country that will suit your migration requirements! Cause it doesn't seem you will stick around more - in fact you shouldn't if you find so many negatives here

Your views are good, but they are your personal views only and I don't think people should really over-think too much on that. Most of the people who are on expatforum and who get a job never come back to share their experiences. But I am sure that 95% of the migrants who come here get a job sooner or later and are happy being here. You seem to be in that 5% category.

I wish you luck


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Huss81 said:


> I hope you have a back-up plan to go back to India or any other country that will suit your migration requirements! Cause it doesn't seem you will stick around more - in fact you shouldn't if you find so many negatives here
> 
> Your views are good, but they are your personal views only and I don't think people should really over-think too much on that. Most of the people who are on expatforum and who get a job never come back to share their experiences. But I am sure that 95% of the migrants who come here get a job sooner or later and are happy being here. You seem to be in that 5% category.
> 
> I wish you luck


Thank you. Also by that logic, I can also assure you that not all expats are on this forum.  The 40 likes on this thread is not a coincidence.


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## ashishjain (Oct 18, 2016)

In the Ancient Viking wisdom of The Havamal it is said :
“ Better a humble house than none.
A man is master at home.

A pair of goats and a patched roof
are better than begging.”

It is also said :
“The brave and generous have the best lives.
They’re seldom sorry.
The unwise man is always worried,
fears favours to repay.”

Any strong man should heed this that he may be wise and prosper.


Simon, you mentioned a lot of right and correct things:
- Tough job market
- Racism (It's there, everybody knows, just a matter of noticing and luck)
- PR Visa is govt. money-making process
- Australian dream - how it is seeded and watered which results in cactus
- Get visa validated on a short trip before moving out with family leaving everything behind (Most Important Tip)
- Make your network, ask your network i.e. importance of having a network in Australia
- Value of local experience

I don't care what anyone thinks, but you are right, things are not easy. Yes, a dream has been sold upon to me, you and others.

I am not asking you to change the world, nobody can do this. But you can change things for you, for the people directly around you and in doing so, having a noble and dignified life in any country.

We both are from India, don't we know about the job market here:
- I earlier told about my Australian friends who fetched jobs but did I mentioned my 3 cousins (all B.Tech.), who are paid Rs.10000-15000 per month to the company to get internship. Yes, they paid the company and not otherwise. Later now, they are working with a salary of Rs.18000/- after spending Rs.400-500k alone in their graduation. With this rate of salary, they would recover their education expense (forget everything else) in around 6-10 years. IITians and Tier 1 graduates are exception and also they constiute less than 5% of B.Tech graduates in the market. 60% of them are picked by big IT companies like TCS, Infosys and are paid less than Rs.300k per annum.

Job market for freshers is not good anywhere, Though you are not a fresher but experienced. Still, I made this point to those who are just graduated in Australia and said that they were feed upon by Australian Universities. 

- Don't we know about racism in India. It is worse here. Biharis are neither treated well in North India and let's not talk about how Maharashtrians treat them. I have so many educated and professional friends who are Biharis and I have seen this myself that a lot of people on the streets, restaurants, banks treat them as uneducated, just because of their looks of bihari. How Czhecks are treated in UK? How blacks are still treated in US? Educated class will talk against racism, stereotyping but deep inside it is rooted. It's a bloody fact.

I am stopping here and just want to say that problems of Australia are not unique. The decision of moving to Australia may either make or destroy a man but what happens is result of our karma. I mean sometime we have to make tough choices. 

On this forum, there was a person who didn't get job in Australia in 3 months. He came back to India, found to be affected with depression. Got treated, made a plan and went back. This time he did a job there without any pay for 2 months in a small IT startup. Later, he got permanently placed with a package of $80k.

Just like we leave a company, due to our boss primarily and then coz of money (most of the times), we leave our country for a reason and money should never be primary factor to leave anyone (your family), any thing (be it your company or country).

I want to move to avoid the frustrations I faced in India.
- SC/ST/OBC quota in Education and Govt Jobs (strong reason of brain drain). My wife had to wait for 8 years and had to give an exam before being promoted in a government organization while her St friend got promoted with in 3 years due to quota and they started together, her ST friend had 2 promotions and she is boss to my wife and she don't know nothing. Such a harassment is this !
- Security
- Money making schools and colleges - It's not Australia, in every country, it is prevalent. Atleast in Australia, there is n concept of bribing and get admission. Here fools are becoming doctors on the leverage of black money their parent shave earned.

My friend, Simon, please calm down, rewrite your resume, if necessary, compromise today a little and start again after having some experience with same old resume.

You already a leader coming out with reality of Australia, You showed us another face. Made us aware. This community THANKS YOU. Just tweak your thoughts a little, grab a job and share your experiences 3 month after getting the job.

WE ARE ALWAYS HERE TO LISTEN YOU !

Tip: Show that you are the kind of person who believes in learning and sharing the knowledge in the next round of interview.

Chose the path of honor, loyalty and dignity is my advice. It is the men who make that choice who make the world a better place.


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

Crux is before leaving your jobs in India or from wherever you are relocating, have a Plan- B. Either have enough money in India or assests. If not, do not burn the bridges with your current employer and do not ooze about Australia until you settle there. Extreme situation will not give a call before coming, be ready..


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## ibbz87 (Jun 30, 2016)

seems like you yourself have something against muslims, the way you emphasis on this in each of your post.have you picked up some racist fever yourself or what?
PS: i have more australian friends then you might have mate.
i have networked with loads of australians in england and i do know the way they are.
Plus I am not a loser and if no one would hire me, i would make a difference and would set a goal to be an employer and not an employee.
good luck with your job hunt although i am a muslim but still saying good luck to you lol coz you seem very much ok the racist side lol

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


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## hari_it_ram (Jun 30, 2013)

Thanks for excellent write up. Will come and post here after getting the job. Thanks and all the best for your career. 

PS:- Many would have faced these issue even at the state/location transfer within their own country. However, I will never talk about death ceremony for the baby who just born.


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## Abubakr (May 10, 2016)

Simon Matthew said:


> Not recognized in the constitution.
> 
> INDIGENOUS RECOGNITION AND CONSTITUTIONAL MYTHS - Constitutional Critique
> Why Recognition? - RECOGNISE


Im sorry i cant get it, where in those links was it written that the aboriginals arent recognized in the constitution as citizens ??!!!


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

Simon Matthew said:


> Not recognized in the constitution.
> 
> INDIGENOUS RECOGNITION AND CONSTITUTIONAL MYTHS - Constitutional Critique
> Why Recognition? - RECOGNISE


Of course Aboriginal people are Citizens - that is not recognised in the Australian Constitution as that document does not define or address Citizenship for anyone, Aboriginal or otherwise. 

From your own link above: 

_"A further common myth is that the 1967 referendum gave citizenship to the Aboriginal people. This is incorrect. Between 1788 and 1949, everyone born in Australia (or any other part of the British Empire) acquired the legal status of “British subject” (“subject” was the term used for British nationality at that time). *In 1949, under new legislation every person born in Australia, regardless of race or colour, became simultaneously a British subject and Australian citizen.* Subsequent changes in legislation meant that Australians are no longer British subjects.

Eligibility for Australian citizenship has changed over the years. *Citizenship laws, however, have never differentiated between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal persons*.

Again, citizenship is not defined in the Constitution. A referendum would not be required to amend the citizenship law. "_


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

I may be mistaken but this is my impression after reading these few pages.

Simon, <*SNIP - inappropriate*> You struggling many months to get a gob and trying to find exuses blaming everything - local gob market, government, racism etc... But - my own opinion - if person cant find job during more than 6 months its not market problem. Its only about personal attitude and ego.

I can read in every your post that you are super star, tooo good. And you making favour to people on this forum spending your valuable time here. Judging by number and size of your posts you do have really a lot of time. Do you communicate with potential employer same way? Than no wonder why they dont want to deal with you.

Before accusing any country it would be good to compare it with your own country...I am comparing with India and Russia (as my husband is indian and I am russian)

Benefits...Which benefits do you expect from country where you are nobody? you got PR? - yor own problem. Nobody asked you to come, nobody forced you to come. Which benefits can you get in your own country? Correct - nothing. And this country doesnt owe you nothing. Your paying for getting opoortunity. Why do you expect any government support while you are jobless if your visa is "skilled"?

Now lets compare PR - in India (and in Russia also) we dont have such option like "skilled independent visa". In both countries the only way to get a job is....yes-job offer from employer. Moreover, in Russia you have to speak russian to get work permit (you need to pass exam).
To get PR in Russia first you have to stay there 1 year minimum on Temporary visa base. Same in India. Its impossible to get PR or citizenship unless you are married to citizen. Even in this case - minimum 10 years waiting and after passing exams prooving that you speak hindi and know history of India.

Medicare - we have free medicine but to get proper treatment you have to pay bribes. Both countries. 

Education - same same same. All about money, every year becoming worce.

Racism...let me tell few words about it. My husbans's father many years back had to change his christan name to hindu to get a job in government office. Very often I am reading in the news how hindu are fighting with muslims and christians. I personally was feeling naked on the streets, I used to cover my head with scarf and put on sunglasses as white girls attract to much attention. I could not even use public transport. And apart of India - I didnt get a job in South Africa beciuse I am white girl. They prefer black guys.
I know that in paricular places in Russia my husband would have same problems.
I am not blaming these countries - nobody invited me there. Dont like it - dont go..
BTW - I am not rasist, I have good friends hindu, muslims and christians. I judge people by personality not by skin colour or religious.

Cost of life. Yes its expensive in Australia but is it cheap in India or Russia? Its even more expensive because in Australia salary is bit more. Lets compare house loan - 10% interest in India, 13% in Russia, 5% in Australia.

Local experience. Its really about exerience, not about ethnicity. I dont know about IT but its understandable why they want it for example for civil engineers - civil engineer has to know all local procedures - how to get government approval before starting works, fire safety comission etc (there is a lot), local standards and rules. Moreover, he should know local market - materials, concrete etc. Nobody wants to waste time ant teach comeone from overseas if they may arrange someone who alreafy knows.

Australia has problems. Of course. Every country has and its not an exception.

Yes, its difficult in new country, as nobody is waiting us there. But we should be ready for that.


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## ibbz87 (Jun 30, 2016)

Ola.V said:


> I may be mistaken but this is my impression after reading these few pages.
> 
> Simon, <*SNIP - inappropriate*>. You struggling many months to get a gob and trying to find exuses blaming everything - local gob market, government, racism etc... But - my own opinion - if person cant find job during more than 6 months its not market problem. Its only about personal attitude and ego.
> 
> ...


very well written

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


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## Abubakr (May 10, 2016)

Giving this much of negativityis not cool at all, youre not giving solutions you are just giving negative thoughts,you are not even advising people not to apply for the australian pr and checking other country instead. No, youre talking to people who mostly already got their pr, so what can we do ??, ditch our grants after paying a fortune in it ??


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## troden (Dec 15, 2016)

*some insights*



Simon Matthew said:


> Housing: It is really expensive to stay on your own here. A shared flat (for a single person) is almost 250/week (suburb in Sydney). On top of that, if you are UNEMPLOYED, you're chances of independently renting out a unit or a house is ZERO. That's because there is a huge demand for housing and employed people with children are on the look out for independent units/homes, so when push comes to shove, homeowners always prefer to rent out their dwelling to people who are employed (This is a no-brainer). Yes, Ive been to a lot of open houses and I'm speaking from my own experience.
> 
> - The job market, especially in the IT sector is "over saturated". This is a direct quote from several recruitment consultants. They say that for a job that is posted in seek.com.au, they receive almost 50 resumes in an hour of posting the job! Over 99% of them are from new migrants located in Australia.
> 
> ...


first off, as a white australian born citizen i can assure you that when i was looking for a house 6 of the first 8 we applied for went to migrant families we finally got the 9th one.

not the job market, having several certificates in IT my self, YES the market is over saturated (reason i don't work in IT)

also at least you get interviews, i applied for over 300 jobs in one week and got 2 rejection letters. thats all, the problem in australia is 30,000 jobs are lost per year, as in business closed down or moved over seas. 10,000 new ones will take their place. then add to that 25,000+ new migrants/refugees e.c.t coming into the country. and whats left is 51% paying taxes to support the other 49% and a little over 170,000 advertised jobs for more than 1.7 million unemployed/underemployed. there are programs out there to help non whites get employment much easier, same with the indigenous population, as a middle aged white male no one cares at all, i am the one receiving racism and persecution because as a foreigner there are incentive schemes out there for you, even if every Indian i have worked for has ripped me off and constantly call my house trying to scam me.


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## pgalla (Oct 28, 2016)

Ola.V said:


> I may be mistaken but this is my impression after reading these few pages.
> 
> Simon, <*SNIP - inappropriate*> You struggling many months to get a gob and trying to find exuses blaming everything - local gob market, government, racism etc... But - my own opinion - if person cant find job during more than 6 months its not market problem. Its only about personal attitude and ego.
> 
> ...


Well said! But, I think Simon's experience was probably different. Everyone's experience is different. At the end, only positivism and hope wins! With that, let's all hope for the best in Australia!


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## troden (Dec 15, 2016)

Simon Matthew said:


> So easy to get a job, just come, you'll eventually get it, it takes time etc., But no one talks about the ugly truth. Why should migrants come here and spend a good portion of their savings when no one recognizes them let alone supports or appreciate them?


there is far more support for migrants than there is for white australian born citizens, this is why i want to leave australia, and if getting a job is so easy, how is it in 10 years i got 1 gob and that was working for a Indian migrant who ripped me off and had no plan on actually paying me. ended up i had to make my own job, pays like **** but it is allowing me to save up for a move to the USA


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## expat1234 (May 7, 2016)

Simon, I commend and thank you for writing this post. Like so many others here, I too am waiting for a grant.

And don't take the multitude of emotional, illogical and plain stupid responses to heart. When a person has committed so much time, energy and hope to an endeavor, it is very difficult to see the other side.

There was a study done on people who believed a person who said that the world would end on a particular date. Many sold their houses and everything before that date. They waited in a house together praying on the last day with their "messiah". Do you know what happened when the date passed without anything happening ? You might think that they would, at the very least, leave that messiah for good, if not beat him up. But they did not, they actually believed him again when he said it was blessing that they were saved.

There is a very nice book on this topic "Mistakes were made (but not by me)"

It's difficult to admit mistakes when you have invested a lot.


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## ibbz87 (Jun 30, 2016)

the problem here is that the OP is continuously blaming the system and all and marely admitting that this could be result of some of his mistakes that he is not landing a job.
The prime example is his continuous bragging of his certifications and qualifications which gives us an idea that he is actually trying his luck with very top end jobs, which ofcourse would not be easier for sure.
A person's failure starts when he starts to evaluate himself as incomparable and that is when you fail and this is exactly what is happening with mr simon with due respect.
Now everyone give some time to search this forum and you will get to know tons of people who landed their jobs within couple of months when they first arrived to aus.
There are loads of them without any significant exposure to multinational companies like the OP but what made them succeed was that they never over evaluated themselves and went easy on job hunting and started small.


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## expat1234 (May 7, 2016)

ibbz87 said:


> the problem here is that the OP is continuously blaming the system and all and marely admitting that this could be result of some of his mistakes that he is not landing a job.
> The prime example is his continuous bragging of his certifications and qualifications which gives us an idea that he is actually trying his luck with very top end jobs, which ofcourse would not be easier for sure.
> A person's failure starts when he starts to evaluate himself as incomparable and that is when you fail and this is exactly what is happening with mr simon with due respect.
> Now everyone give some time to search this forum and you will get to know tons of people who landed their jobs within couple of months when they first arrived to aus.
> ...


You are missing the point completely. He is giving his perspective and experience, backing it up with sources. He is saying, be smart, be realistic, it might be very difficult, have a backup plan. But you continue to make it about him. It's not about him. He is trying to help by giving us a perspective which few are willing to share.

Most who struggle, struggle silently; most who are successful boast about it, so what you get is a skewed picture. He is trying to correct that.


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## troden (Dec 15, 2016)

mnmedipa said:


> Every one in Australia would agree with Simon's views...


no where near as many as you would think, only the liberals and those well off, the mass of struggling Aussie battlers who are sick to their guts with migrants taking the few jobs left and with the government giving away these skilled jobs to foreigners rather than upskilling honest Australians, it is because the liberal governments who the 2 main party's (i.e. the only ones that get elected) have a 75% overlap on policies and have all but admitted they are not listening to the public any more, the liberals screaming for multiculturalism and more migrants only make up a small minority of the population, the only reason they get any where is because they are the loudest and most annoying.

how does a job/housing shortage get fixed by denying it actually exists and bringing in more people to an already collapsing infrastructure. 

oh and an increasing amount of Australians hate foreigners, not because Racism like the SJW's would have you believe, it is because we are loosing our country, our culture and our livelihoods. 

and to those calming Aussies hating Muslims being racist, last i checked a religion in not a race, we have no problem with Arabs just those that are Muslim because their culture and religious ideals are not compatible with ours.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

ashishjain said:


> You already a leader coming out with reality of Australia, You showed us another face. Made us aware. This community THANKS YOU. Just tweak your thoughts a little, grab a job and share your experiences 3 month after getting the job.
> 
> WE ARE ALWAYS HERE TO LISTEN YOU !
> 
> ...


Such a nice post. I wish I could "Like" it more than once.  The whole point of this article is to just show the reality and how it is a bit different from all the glossy brochures that we were provided. I will give it a 1000% more to integrate quickly into this society with a job. It's now a matter of pride for me. I NEVER EVER GIVE UP.

The reason why I wrote this post is because of a very upsetting experience I had a week ago. I was at a hotel visiting some friends when I saw this Indian couple with a 5 year old girl. I already knew what was up and I started to talk them. It turns out both of them are newly arrived expats actively looking for IT jobs in Australia. They've been here for 4 months, can't find independent accommodation, can't send their child to school because they don't know if they'll continue to be here in Australia if they don't have a job and are basically STUCK. That really struck a chord within me.

I'm essentially a single man living here. Sure I have to tighten my belt and put a cork up my bottom, but I only have to worry about me. I don't have to worry about my wife and kids as they are safe and sound back home. People believe the propaganda and board ship without realizing how difficult, expensive and slow it is to land a good job here. Also, the more you want something, the less likely it is for someone to get it.  The greatest irony of them all!


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

expat1234 said:


> You are missing the point completely. He is giving his perspective and experience, backing it up with sources. He is saying, be smart, be realistic, it might be very difficult, have a backup plan. But you continue to make it about him. It's not about him. He is trying to help by giving us a perspective which few are willing to share.
> 
> Most who struggle, struggle silently; most who are successful boast about it, so what you get is a skewed picture. He is trying to correct that.


I couldn't have said it better. Thank you.


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## ibbz87 (Jun 30, 2016)

expat1234 said:


> You are missing the point completely. He is giving his perspective and experience, backing it up with sources. He is saying, be smart, be realistic, it might be very difficult, have a backup plan. But you continue to make it about him. It's not about him. He is trying to help by giving us a perspective which few are willing to share.
> 
> Most who struggle, struggle silently; most who are successful boast about it, so what you get is a skewed picture. He is trying to correct that.


well backing it up with comments such as racism. we in sub continent are more racist than anywhere else so irrelevant.

backing it up by religion and continuously stating if you have a muslim name then forget it.
I have 5 of my school friends all muslims, all settled in australia and all working for good companies, fee in oil and gas sector.

So i dont have an issue with his perspective, i have an issue with the way he is backing his claims

Secondly i myself have lived in england for nearly 6 years and it is not a smooth ride either 
Whenever you migrate to a new country, It is hard very hard i know that.
Alrhough he does say act smart and all and yet his title says it all (YOU SHOULD NOT) and he himself keeps on stating that oh i will get austrakian citizenship and all and that us my goal.
Is not it hypocrisy?
You want something else for yourself whereas you suggest others the completely opposite. 
i hope you get my point now.

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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

So I do not wish to sound pious ,but many North Indians are like me..from Delhi. I believe you land where you have to land and some struggles are meant to happen. So people who worry too much about the PR thing, should take it easy and leave on God, he will decide the best for us..Sometimes, we go over the board about making plans, ultimately that happens, what is ought to happen. 

My friend's from Delhi, don't mind my post !!


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Ola.V said:


> I may be mistaken but this is my impression after reading these few pages.
> 
> Simon, <*SNIP - inappropriate*> You struggling many months to get a gob and trying to find exuses blaming everything - local gob market, government, racism etc... But - my own opinion - if person cant find job during more than 6 months its not market problem. Its only about personal attitude and ego.
> 
> ...


Again, you are missing my point. For people who are already in comfortable jobs and planning to come to Australia throwing everything away, expecting a great start. If the option still exists.

Your post is too emotional. It sounds like you have too much invested already. I don't know if you've ever gone through any of the links posted. Yes, I am a good candidate. But, consider this. If I'm a good candidate and couldn't land a job would it be easier or difficult for someone will less qualifications and certifications to do the same? Food for thought.

Don't think even for a minute that you can debate me and CHANGE what's going on in this country right now.  If I have ruffled a few feathers, then that was exactly the reaction I was looking for.

Another point I want to make is that I didn't come here for free. I paid $$. I am an aspiring migrant, but it goes both ways. Do they want to retain good talent in this country? If so, they have to meet me halfway.

Try to get out of the mindset that we owe EVERYTHING to them because they granted us the VISA. We are here, because we are QUALIFIED to be here. Nothing more, nothing less. All I am asking is to be treated fairly. That is not too much to ask for.

South Africa is the best country for us! We are treated with so much respect! I just LOVED it. Australia is nowhere as cool as Johannesburg


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

ibbz87 said:


> well backing it up with comments such as racism. we in sub continent are more racist than anywhere else so irrelevant.
> 
> backing it up by religion and continuously stating if you have a muslim name then forget it.
> I have 5 of my school friends all muslims, all settled in australia and all working for good companies, fee in oil and gas sector.
> ...


Nope, your point is misled. Like I said, you are just too emotional on this point. It doesn't allow you to see my point clearly. I do not want people to come and suffer. Why do that when you can just as easily apply from abroad? It makes no difference. If they really want you, they'll call you on Skype and set up an interview and take it from there.

Again, if one is having a comfortable life and is migrating to Australia ONLY to better it, then don't throw everything away IN THE HOPE that EVERYTHING WILL BE ALRIGHT FROM THE GET GO.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Giri vishnu said:


> So I do not wish to sound pious ,but many North Indians are like me..from Delhi. I believe you land where you have to land and some struggles are meant to happen. So people who worry too much about the PR thing, should take it easy and leave on God, he will decide the best for us..Sometimes, we go over the board about making plans, ultimately that happens, what is ought to happen.
> 
> My friend's from Delhi, don't mind my post !!


You are now aware of the reality. The decision to resign from your current job, come here and hunt for jobs while residing here is totally up to you. Like I said in my post, if I were to do this again, I would have stayed in France, applied for jobs and attended interviews remotely and when it was time to move to Australia, ensure that I had a job in my hand.

The final decision is yours. The both sides of the coin is there for you to see. Good luck!


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

ibbz87 said:


> seems like you yourself have something against muslims, the way you emphasis on this in each of your post.have you picked up some racist fever yourself or what?
> PS: i have more australian friends then you might have mate.
> i have networked with loads of australians in england and i do know the way they are.
> Plus I am not a loser and if no one would hire me, i would make a difference and would set a goal to be an employer and not an employee.
> ...


No I don't have a problem. Among my best friends in Dubai were Pakistanis. In Beirut, my best friends were Palestinians and Lebanese. In fact, I have a really good friend here that is Pakistani. He's young and he's just like my brother. He's also the reason why I decided to move to Australia.

Did you click on the link about discrimination? I didn't write that. Here it is again for quick perusal:

Australian bosses racist: study | Foreign or indigenous names 'decrease job chance'


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Abubakr said:


> Giving this much of negativityis not cool at all, youre not giving solutions you are just giving negative thoughts,you are not even advising people not to apply for the australian pr and checking other country instead. No, youre talking to people who mostly already got their pr, so what can we do ??, ditch our grants after paying a fortune in it ??


Are you already here? Then like I, you have already bit the bullet. We've got to ride it out. No other way.

No, I won't advise anyone, because it's not my place to tell them what to do, because I really don't know what their situation is. Everyone has their own reasons for migrating. If they are desperate and feel this is the best option for them, then they have to do it against all odds. If not, stay where you are, look for jobs remotely and when it's time make the move. Simple.

We could send an email to our local members asking for support. That's never a bad idea.


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

Oooh, my friend...
I had doubts but now I have not. Especially after your words about Johannesburg.
You need attention and public appreciation. Because you think you are unique and too qualified. But its not like this. You are not.
You expect we to come and tell Simon, thats soooo good that we have you)).

I am not too emotional and I didnt invest too much yet.

This country doesnt need you. You need it. I am sure they have enough qualified staff but they are giving you opportunity to come.

I am not going to debate you - its useless and I am not intetested in it and definitely am not going to change anything. I am realistic and I can adjust to whats going on.

The only thing is - I dont like when people are blaiming in their failure everything except themself.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Now here is an observation. Those who have opposed me in this thread (for whatever reason), if you revisit your posts, you will observe that you basically agree with me, but just don't want me to express it in the public domain.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Ola.V said:


> This country doesnt need you. You need it. I am sure they have enough qualified staff but they are giving you opportunity to come.


Fortunately for me, you're not the one who issued my visa. Thank you for your valuable time, though.


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## Ola.V (Sep 15, 2016)

Not like that.
We agree that its better to do some investigation and preparation before quitting the current job.
But we dont agree that if you dont succeed in result - its local government fault


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

I agree too few posts; but this is also not correct that Australia does not need us, if a country is inviting migrants, that in itself is self explanatory that they have less resources or the locals are too lazy to work. 
People from India/Pakistan or any other country ( who are migrating) are considered hard working, that is the reason they are selected for such posts. So it is not wise to just demean yourself by saying hey- I need Australia, yes we need it more than they need me; but they need me too, to have a better economy. By me, I mean, all the people they are inviting on PR, so let's keep our spirits high and get adjusted there. 

Australian govt did not come to my home to invite me but if they have invitations, it implies, they would also like to have us there !!


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## shets (May 18, 2016)

Good going Ashish! I liked your clarity of thought here..

As for my friend Simon, I really appreciate that you took time out to share your experiences. In the first place, before discussing Australia, at some point you were not really happy with your situation (wherever you may come from) which is why you chose Australia. I believe in this case you felt Australia is a better choice for your family as compared to India. I am too from India. I love my country. However, my current priorities have suggested me to look for answers elsewhere. I hope to make Australia my home. 

In this forum, we are primarily here to seek motivation and gain from the other person's experience. The modern world as we know today is the result of people moving from one place to another. Every country we know today was built on the basis of people movement. Trust me, it is never easy for first timers who move into another country. 

We need to understand one thing. Australia does not owe us anything. In fact, you should be grateful to Australia for letting you inside their great country. Every place will have its share of problems. It doesn't mean that once you decide to migrate to Australia; bed of roses will welcome you. You may be brilliant in your scope of work. However, you need to make efforts to blend into Aussie culture. 

Of course, this view is for people who want to make Australia their home and not here seeking for a short term solution to their life problems...

I appreciate your efforts. However, spread awareness with possible solutions. Otherwise noise created by us would not help anyone! This is not to undermine your efforts but to create a positive environment for information seekers such as myself..


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Ola.V said:


> Not like that.
> We agree that its better to do some investigation and preparation before quitting the current job.
> But we dont agree that if you dont succeed in result - its local government fault


Yes, we both agree on the same point. In fact, our first posts have a lot in common. We address the same points, albeit with a different approach. I'll open up a bit more about myself and will call upon one more experience in the job market I had in November. I had my contact at an American Tech company arrange an interview for me there. I was interviewing for the position of a Solution Architect. Nothing fancy. Not a top end job. I promise you.

This was a week before the U.S. elections. I gave them the interview, they were so happy with my skills (because I'm very hands on) and I'm waiting for the response. Trump gets elected and on that very same day, at 9:03 P.M., Australian time I get a rejection from the HR.  I obviously called up my contact and the response is that there is a hiring freeze in place because of executive instruction. I've never received any email from any business located here in Australia after 5:30 P.M!

Clearly, I'm not the only one who got the rejection. A lot of people must have received it. Is it my fault? No. One can do everything humanly possibly, but there is still that element of chance that could turn your plans upside down. This thread is not for people who have made it, it's :
- To protect aspiring migrants from deception. I would never want to see unnecessary suffering. Do I really have to do this? Absolutely not, I could keep silent and be on my way. Trust me, keeping on top of this thread is really eating away at my time, energy and personal goals.

- As we are nearing Christmas and New Year in this country, away from our families, a bit of a cheer to those people who haven't landed their first jobs here, but telling them that it's not always their fault. There are factors that are beyond our control and which include the economy, the general perception and the government confidence that determine if, and when we can get that first job.

Its my way of saying, "Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year and don't worry, there are lot of us out there without jobs. Cheer up, because it's not always your fault. Things, hopefully might be better in 2017".

and yeah,
 For those who can apply for jobs remotely, please do so. That's the best way forward.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

shets said:


> Good going Ashish! I liked your clarity of thought here..
> 
> As for my friend Simon, I really appreciate that you took time out to share your experiences. In the first place, before discussing Australia, at some point you were not really happy with your situation (wherever you may come from) which is why you chose Australia. I believe in this case you felt Australia is a better choice for your family as compared to India. I am too from India. I love my country. However, my current priorities have suggested me to look for answers elsewhere. I hope to make Australia my home.
> 
> ...


This goes to the original post in this thread. If you are looking for positive threads on Australia, you can visit every thread on this forum, expect for this one.  If I had the option to redo this, I would follow a different approach. Apply for jobs remotely and make the move to Australia when I land an offer.

In fact, statistically speaking, the interest in my profile and the interview calls that I was receiving are almost similar, regardless of where I was. But someone convinced me that it would make a huge difference if I were locally present in Australia. That is wrong!

Like I've said before, I don't know what your situation is. If you are already here, you have to fight it out just like I am doing every single hour of the day. NEVER ONCE in this thread have I asked ANYONE to give up and go back. I'll never ever dispense advice that I myself couldn't or wouldn't follow.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Giri vishnu said:


> I agree too few posts; but this is also not correct that Australia does not need us, if a country is inviting migrants, that in itself is self explanatory that they have less resources or the locals are too lazy to work.
> People from India/Pakistan or any other country ( who are migrating) are considered hard working, that is the reason they are selected for such posts. So it is not wise to just demean yourself by saying hey- I need Australia, yes we need it more than they need me; but they need me too, to have a better economy. By me, I mean, all the people they are inviting on PR, so let's keep our spirits high and get adjusted there.
> 
> Australian govt did not come to my home to invite me but if they have invitations, it implies, they would also like to have us there !!


Dont be upset, Giri. I think that response was targeted just for me. I agree with everything you say, btw.


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## FrozenAh (Apr 30, 2014)

People must realize that when they migrate to a new country, its difficult to adjust at first. You might have to face many hurdles in order to succeed, its not an easy sail for everyone. Weigh the goods and the bads, prepare yourself for the worst and be realistic. If you think everything will be served to you and that its a moneyland, then keep dreaming. I agree with the person who said most of the time people who struggle stay quiet, while people who succeed boast about their success, so this gives inaccurate view of the situation. Prepare yourself for the worst and always have a backup plan that's all I want to say.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

FrozenAh said:


> People must realize that when they migrate to a new country, its difficult to adjust at first. You might have to face many hurdles in order to succeed, its not an easy sail for everyone. Weigh the goods and the bads, prepare yourself for the worst and be realistic. If you think everything will be served to you and that its a moneyland, then keep dreaming. I agree with the person who said most of the time people who struggle stay quiet, while people who succeed boast about their success, so this gives inaccurate view of the situation. Prepare yourself for the worst and always have a backup plan that's all I want to say.


Amen, brother.


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

Simon Matthew said:


> This goes to the original post in this thread. If you are looking for positive threads on Australia, you can visit every thread on this forum, expect for this one.  If I had the option to redo this, I would follow a different approach. Apply for jobs remotely and make the move to Australia when I land an offer.
> 
> In fact, statistically speaking, the interest in my profile and the interview calls that I was receiving are almost similar, regardless of where I was. But someone convinced me that it would make a huge difference if I were locally present in Australia. That is wrong!
> 
> Like I've said before, I don't know what your situation is. If you are already here, you have to fight it out just like I am doing every single hour of the day. NEVER ONCE in this thread have I asked ANYONE to give up and go back. I'll never ever dispense advice that I myself couldn't or wouldn't follow.


Simon, I can assure you that the the time you spent to remain on top of this thread has not gone to waste. I for one, now have a realistic picture of what it means to immigra te to another country and thanks lot for painting a realistic picture. 

Now iam scrounging for plan b if things don't go all that well over there or if my application gets rejected. Once again thanks for starting a quality thread. 

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

I think people are getting riled up because of the way you have named the thread title. At a first glance , it seems like you are warning people not to come here but that's not the case. 

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

gonnabeexpat said:


> Simon, I can assure you that the the time you spent to remain on top of this thread has not gone to waste. I for one, now have a realistic picture of what it means to immigra te to another country and thanks lot for painting a realistic picture.
> 
> Now iam scrounging for plan b if things don't go all that well over there or if my application gets rejected. Once again thanks for starting a quality thread.
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


Please read the below articles (if you haven't done so already)

Australian economy shrinks 0.5pc in September quarter, worst fall since global financial crisis - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Australia at risk of negative GDP after business investment fall - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
The recession we're already in - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

The scenario that we face right now is that we are already at the brink of recession. We may not be able to get into the workplace, but those in the workplace are able to hang on. Imagine if we were to slip into recession. What would happen then? A lot of people would lose their jobs and the competition for an opportunity will be well outside the hands of a new migrant.

They'll obviously be flooded with candidates with local experience dashing our hopes and goals ever further out of reach.


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## Jahirul (Oct 24, 2015)

This is a realistic post (the post + the replies),, while most of the posts are already very informative and positive here we still need to acknowledge the truth. Everyone knows there are good and bad sides in each place you move.. We need to inspire people with the positive side and at the same time no harm to warn people to be ready to face the reality..

The smartest, qualified & lucky ones does not need any advise, however the post will be helpful to those really has shortfalls in themselves but think that fortune will come automatically once they migrate...


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## Missmolly (Dec 9, 2016)

hasansins said:


> Well who said it would be a ride in the flower garden?
> 
> Moving to another country without anyone besides you will of course be very difficult at the beginnings but I believe those who work hard and are resiliant will be successful in the end.


My friends who just migrated this year have gotten good jobs


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## mnmedipa (Sep 9, 2016)

I think everyone is upset with Simon because he is bursting everyone hopes and beliefs here...Every person needs a belief which keeps them going and for many Australia is a ray of hope...
People and their experiences are subjective and might bring on a false interpretation but facts and numbers dont...Australia is heading towards tougher times...This is not me but major economists saying...However people with good skill will and always be hired...Australia doesn't need immigrants in many fields in SOL...Note that I said many fields not all...Then how come they are on SOL...They are on SOL because opportunities exist in some remote places...However all new migrants want to come to work and in Melbourne and Sydney...thats not possible...
Most ppl in this forum are prospective immigrants who never have stepped into Australia...They hear their friends or colleague got a job and think wow Australia is easy ...It isnt...Everyone shares their success no one tells the struggles they went through to get it...
I am not discouraging anyone to come to Australia but consider your case specifically...
I chose Australia because I was starting as a student...Even if I stayed in India I had to work hard and even if I came here I had to work hard...I knew that if I did the same hard work in Australia which I had to do in India the rewards will be greater here ...But if you are in a well established job in your country with your family wife and kid then leaving everything and coming to Australia makes less sense...
Chasing the Australian dream is great but people especially with family but think about how their dream can effect their family's welfare...


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## OctNovDec (Oct 20, 2016)

Simon Matthew said:


> Thank you. Also by that logic, I can also assure you that not all expats are on this forum.  The 40 likes on this thread is not a coincidence.


The likes are an aggregate of all the likes each post in the thread has received. There is no option of liking a thread.


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## pipebritop (Sep 6, 2015)

I think that one of the problems with OP here is that he is making a Post coming from frustration. It can't be denied that what you said is truth, but is Your truth and it doesn't mean that if the path of the PR has been cruel with you, it will be the same with everybody else.

First of all, you should have been aware that it will not be easy to get a job that fits with your qualifications just because you landed here. You talked about a plan-b. Why didn'y you prepare mentally to apply to low level works while you adjust yourself to the Aussie culture? There is a famous post of this guy (I think it was mentioned here) that couldn't find a job for months. Finally he applied for a volunteer job related with his occupation, and after that, the market recognized his local experience. Remember that there are plenty (maybe millions) of people landing in Australia with IT occupations and this, certainly makes the actual scenario not too good for people sharing your occupation. Is the country fault? Maybe in some part because they are allowing to enter too much people like you, but nobody put a bullet in your head to make your decision, but under the actual circumstances, you should try to sell to the market the better version of yourself. Believe it or not, your attitude is reflected while you are in the job interwievs, and in that case, why hire someone so frustrated and aggressive?

Secondly, You talk about how much this country is misserable with you in several ways, but have you ever think about why you are not selected on the jobs (but with humility)? Maybe the other candidates have the same technical skills than you (or even better ones!) but they have even better soft skills than you. I mentioned that maybe you have some kind of asperger. That is not something bad, it only means that you have to work more than the other pople to fit into the Aussie culture. You should consider to think that maybe you are not too great as you think. 

You said that the situation of the couple with the girl generated anger in you. But, what are they making wrong? every path is different for every person and maybe, they are taking the wrong decisions too.

Finally, I think that the country doesn't owe you anything. It already gives you the opportunity to be here, but is on you to get success. It's something that everyone knows. You paid a lot of money, but if you thought that this was a waranty to get good money back, the golden aussie life and everything else, then, I think that you are a very qualified and intelligent person, but not a smart one.


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## Mithung (Feb 5, 2016)

There is nothing new in what you has listed. Everything is already known and is being discussed on this forum since ages. I am surprised that most forum members are behaving as though they discovered something new. Australia was never the land of opportunities. The mining boom is long over, manufacturing is almost dead and on an average 1000 migrants land in Australia on a daily basis. One doesnt need to go all the way to Australia to figure this out. It is all over the Internet.

Now if someone not aware of ground realities move to Australia and fails, who is responsible? The system? If someone already aware of the realities move to Australia and fails, who is responsible? The system? We are responsible for our actions. Nowhere during the visa process has the Australian government assured us of jobs. If we have fallen for the Aussie dream, who is responsible? It is not right to blame the system for our failures. Sometimes it is wise to ponder if the fault is in us. There is no shame in it no matter how over qualified or experienced we are. Nobody is perfect. 5* certifications and experience is not all that matters in an interview. Going through the posts, at times, the tone of the OP made me feel as though he is going to pop out of the screen and beat me up 

As an aspiring migrant, I am not going with the hope of getting subsidies or social benefits from the government nor am I bothered if the aboriginals are citizens or not. It is a known fact that job market is down and it is not a walk in the park. Some have been lucky to land a job within a week after arrival and I know at least 7 of them who migrated in the last 6 months. But I also know lot more who are still hunting for jobs. Not everyone's migrant story will have a happy ending. It is the harsh reality. If you weren't aware of this, you are the only one to blame.

And seriously!! you tell people why they shouldn't be coming to Australia and also offer them the SIM card solution, but your profile is so out of the world that it makes a huge difference if you are locally present in Australia? 
You also mentioned that you never dispense advice that you couldn't or wouldn't follow. So why don't you tell the forum about your SIM card experiences? Isn't it so easy to preach.

And if you have already done your research, you should be aware that it is much easier for someone with 5-8 years of experience than someone with 15+ years. This I guess is applicable in India as well.


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## appi_arpit (Dec 10, 2016)

Mithung said:


> And seriously!! you tell people why they shouldn't be coming to Australia and also offer them the SIM card solution, but your profile is so out of the world that it makes a huge difference if you are locally present in Australia?
> You also mentioned that you never dispense advice that you couldn't or wouldn't follow. So why don't you tell the forum about your SIM card experiences? Isn't it so easy to preach.
> 
> And if you have already done your research, you should be aware that it is much easier for someone with 5-8 years of experience than someone with 15+ years. This I guess is applicable in India as well.


Ok , so what you are suggesting is , its better to be physically present in Australia for job search ? Remote job search will not be that good ?


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## appi_arpit (Dec 10, 2016)

From this Post , what i understood is , It does not make any difference if you do job search remotely or Physically present in Australia ? is that true ?


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## Mithung (Feb 5, 2016)

appi_arpit said:


> Ok , so what you are suggesting is , its better to be physically present in Australia for job search ? Remote job search will not be that good ?


Yes, unless you have some niche skills. Else you will not be even entertained. You can consider yourself lucky if you at least get a rejection email. Getting an Aussie sim might get you 1 call. Do you think the recruiters/HRs aren't smart enough to figure that out.
Just think for a minute. When there are thousands available in Australia looking for a job who can join in 2 days notice, why would they even bother to look elsewhere.



appi_arpit said:


> From this Post , what i understood is , It does not make any difference if you do job search remotely or Physically present in Australia ? is that true ?


Why don't you try for yourself. You can also do a search on this forum. All your questions will be answered.




Typed from a mobile device. Ignore typos if any.


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## appi_arpit (Dec 10, 2016)

Mithung said:


> Yes, unless you have some niche skills. Else you will not be even entertained. You can consider yourself lucky if you at least get a rejection email. Getting an Aussie sim might get you 1 call. Do you think the recruiters/HRs aren't smart enough to figure that out.
> Just think for a minute. When there are thousands available in Australia looking for a job who can join in 2 days notice, why would they even bother to look elsewhere.
> 
> 
> ...


Oh  , so did you get a job now ?


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## Mithung (Feb 5, 2016)

appi_arpit said:


> Oh  , so did you get a job now ?


Not yet. I haven't moved yet, but I will be moving soon. I am fully aware of what I am up against and I am ready to take that risk.


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## Tchin (Oct 24, 2016)

Australia is the best, can't think of a life better than here!
Love it love it love it


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

gonnabeexpat said:


> I think people are getting riled up because of the way you have named the thread title. At a first glance , it seems like you are warning people not to come here but that's not the case.
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


Certainly gets their attention, doesn't it?


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

OctNovDec said:


> The likes are an aggregate of all the likes each post in the thread has received. There is no option of liking a thread.


Oh, good to know! Hahaha. You learn something new everyday


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## sridhar123 (Apr 20, 2016)

This has been a very useful thread. Remind me of what my brother always says - always think and analyze about the worst case scenario before taking any major step !!


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Jahirul said:


> This is a realistic post (the post + the replies),, while most of the posts are already very informative and positive here we still need to acknowledge the truth. Everyone knows there are good and bad sides in each place you move.. We need to inspire people with the positive side and at the same time no harm to warn people to be ready to face the reality..
> 
> The smartest, qualified & lucky ones does not need any advise, however the post will be helpful to those really has shortfalls in themselves but think that fortune will come automatically once they migrate...


Correct.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Missmolly said:


> My friends who just migrated this year have gotten good jobs


Congratulations and I'm happy for your friends


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

mnmedipa said:


> I think everyone is upset with Simon because he is bursting everyone hopes and beliefs here...Every person needs a belief which keeps them going and for many Australia is a ray of hope...
> People and their experiences are subjective and might bring on a false interpretation but facts and numbers dont...Australia is heading towards tougher times...This is not me but major economists saying...However people with good skill will and always be hired...Australia doesn't need immigrants in many fields in SOL...Note that I said many fields not all...Then how come they are on SOL...They are on SOL because opportunities exist in some remote places...However all new migrants want to come to work and in Melbourne and Sydney...thats not possible...
> Most ppl in this forum are prospective immigrants who never have stepped into Australia...They hear their friends or colleague got a job and think wow Australia is easy ...It isnt...Everyone shares their success no one tells the struggles they went through to get it...
> I am not discouraging anyone to come to Australia but consider your case specifically...
> ...


Exactly. Sometimes its difficult to see the reality when you are blinded by your own enthusiasm and optimism. I can imagine how the scenario might be. You have to spend scores of hours arranging for documentation, police clearance, prepare for IELTS, pass it with a minimum score, blood tests, lodge the application and wait for a year or so to get your PR.

All this time, your friends, family, colleagues all know you are desperately trying to get a PR, all hoping and praying for you. Some people even put family planning on hold till they get their PR. Let's wait till we get to Australia and have our first child.. It will be so nice to have our child as the first Australian citizen in our family. You get your PR, you are on TOP of the world. You think you're almost there. The reality? It's not even started to begin. The dreams, the hopes, the aspirations. Then you come to Australia and experience the five stages of the grief framework: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

pipebritop said:


> Is the country fault? Maybe in some part because they are allowing to enter too much people like you


That's the point I've tried to make. You just agreed with me.



pipebritop said:


> Finally, I think that the country doesn't owe you anything. It already gives you the opportunity to be here, but is on you to get success. It's something that everyone knows. You paid a lot of money, but if you thought that this was a waranty to get good money back, the golden aussie life and everything else, then, I think that you are a very qualified and intelligent person, but not a smart one.


The Aussies here can't achieve the golden dream then how can a newly aspiring migrant?  I think the mentality that the country/society has NO reponsibility WHATSOEVER is not right. Of course, that's your opinion and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think it must be our "development country" mentality that we stop expecting help from the government. With my experience, I can tell you, that in countries like Australia change is not impossible if you put your mind to it. I don't like to be told that I NEED local experience for jobs that I am QUALIFIED for. What would you call people who deliberately shut you out with an UNFAIR criteria (LOCAL experience)?



pipebritop said:


> Secondly, You talk about how much this country is misserable with you in several ways, but have you ever think about why you are not selected on the jobs (but with humility)? Maybe the other candidates have the same technical skills than you (or even better ones!) but they have even better soft skills than you. I mentioned that maybe you have some kind of asperger. That is not something bad, it only means that you have to work more than the other pople to fit into the Aussie culture. You should consider to think that maybe you are not too great as you think.


If you read my thread, you would understand that I did get selected but the offers didn't come through. Newly aspiring migrants need to be prepared for that too. Kindly request you not to use the names of serious diseases to curiously query behavioural gaps in healthy people. That is actually doing injustice to the people who really suffer from those terrible diseases.



pipebritop said:


> You said that the situation of the couple with the girl generated anger in you. But, what are they making wrong? every path is different for every person and maybe, they are taking the wrong decisions too.


Simple. They abandonded their previous life and came here BLINDLY believing the promise. That's what I aim to correct with this thread.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

This paragraph deserves a reply on its own.



pipebritop said:


> First of all, you should have been aware that it will not be easy to get a job that fits with your qualifications just because you landed here. You talked about a plan-b. Why didn'y you prepare mentally to apply to low level works while you adjust yourself to the Aussie culture? There is a famous post of this guy (I think it was mentioned here) that couldn't find a job for months. Finally he applied for a volunteer job related with his occupation, and after that, the market recognized his local experience. Remember that there are plenty (maybe millions) of people landing in Australia with IT occupations and this, certainly makes the actual scenario not too good for people sharing your occupation. Is the country fault? Maybe in some part because they are allowing to enter too much people like you, but nobody put a bullet in your head to make your decision, but under the actual circumstances, you should try to sell to the market the better version of yourself. Believe it or not, your attitude is reflected while you are in the job interwievs, and in that case, why hire someone so frustrated and aggressive?


Again, like I said, I have been selected for a lot of jobs, PROMISED an offer, but never receive one. Second, are you saying that I should pretend to be someone else to get a job?  Do you think that I don't know that?  That is 101. 

Don't be fooled by the aggressive tone of this thread. It was specifically written this away so that people wouldn't think that I was out looking for sympathy. I'm actually quite pleasant to talk to and be with. Trust me.


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## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

Simon Matthew said:


> The Aussies here can't achieve the golden dream then how can a newly aspiring migrant?  I think the mentality that the country/society has NO reponsibility WHATSOEVER is not right. Of course, that's your opinion and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think it must be our "development country" mentality that we stop expecting help from the government. With my experience, I can tell you, that in countries like Australia change is not impossible if you put your mind to it. I don't like to be told that I NEED local experience for jobs that I am QUALIFIED for. What would you call people who deliberately shut you out with an UNFAIR criteria (LOCAL experience)?


You need local experience for jobs because these jobs are also relevant to the local population (i.e., Australians who live, study, and work here). Essentially, you are not the only person who is qualified for these jobs. Out of 50 applicants, there are probably 10 Australians, 20 migrants who had lived in Australia for a while, and 20 migrants such as yourself. 

Your qualifications are no big deal when 50 others have similar (or even better) qualifications.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> Not recognized in the constitution.
> 
> INDIGENOUS RECOGNITION AND CONSTITUTIONAL MYTHS - Constitutional Critique
> Why Recognition? - RECOGNISE


and that means they are not citizens? How come?


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Mithung said:


> As an aspiring migrant, I am not going with the hope of getting subsidies or social benefits from the government nor am I bothered if the aboriginals are citizens or not.


And by that extension, you don't care if others come and have to struggle for 3 months or a year or have to return back empty handed. You simply don't care and I promise you that when you rise to the position of being able to select someone for your team, you'll probably not even prefer to hire someone new (You struggled, so why should you make it easy for somebody else?). This is evident by my interaction with different people in Australia: if there is an asian migrant at the selection board, you can kiss your chances goodbye. BUT I CARE. That's why I created this thread.



Mithung said:


> 5* certifications and experience is not all that matters in an interview. Going through the posts, at times, the tone of the OP made me feel as though he is going to pop out of the screen and beat me up


LOL I'm just a regular guy and those certifications are not 5*, they are just relevant to my qualifications. Yeah, I know the post is a bit aggressive, but it's to prevent sympathetic reactions. It seems to be working. 



Mithung said:


> And seriously!! you tell people why they shouldn't be coming to Australia and also offer them the SIM card solution, but your profile is so out of the world that it makes a huge difference if you are locally present in Australia?
> You also mentioned that you never dispense advice that you couldn't or wouldn't follow. So why don't you tell the forum about your SIM card experiences? Isn't it so easy to preach.


Because I already bit the bullet. I kissed goodbye to my career and everyone in my network knows that I'm seriously considering to be in Australia for the rest of my life. If I go back now, I have to look for jobs at 2 fronts. One where I'm locally located and another for Australia! If I were to land a job simultaneously, and had to anger even one valuable contact in my network, then I risk not landing an opportunity with him/her (at some point in the future) if for some reason I had to leave Australia permanently.

Who knows what the government here will decide next? With growing protectionism and political stupidity no one can predict anything. If "The One Nation" comes to power the next election, which is only a couple of years far anyways, what would happen to our PRs, 457s & student visas? Is it highly unlikely this could happen? Well, that's what they said about Trump and BREXIT.

So, now I have to plan for EVERY SINGLE contingency. My experience has taught me that. Picking fruit in Australia will not solve my problems; sorry to be blunt, but that's the reality. If you know anything about the job market, you know that you need to be ACTIVELY looking for a job. Some times consultants stop accepting profiles/resumes for a position WITHIN an hour. This is straight from the horses' mouth. Not acknowledging this fact and brushing it aside thinking that I'm writing this out of frustration is, sad to say, to be in denial. Moreover, I make it to interviews and I'm successful at interviews. I get told that I'm a very good candidate, a very good prospective employee and an excellent fit to the culture here. Trust me, there is no exaggeration here.

If I were to go back now, I have to pay for my air ticket (are the tickets cheap?) and with no job back home and no prospects here in Australia, I will be burning through my savings much quicker than if I stayed. That's just common sense. Moreover, in a few months' time, I have to bring my family over for their first visit. Money is tight. Working at McDonalds won't even scratch the surface and will further my chances at landing a job.

Also, I'm not someone who is high flying or rich. In fact, I've lost almost 15 kilos after arriving in Sydney. Maybe I had to lose it, hahahaha, no denying I was a bit plump to begin with.  But its good to see a hint of a six-pack on myself. I am pleased with that. That's me. I always see the glass half-full.



Mithung said:


> There is nothing new in what you has listed. Everything is already known and is being discussed on this forum since ages. I am surprised that most forum members are behaving as though they discovered something new. Australia was never the land of opportunities.


You agree and disagree with me at the same time.  Although, I really doubt if the struggles and insight into the day to day workings of the Australian society and economy has been documented on a real time basis.


----------



## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> Medicare is not free (there is a specific tax for Medicare). It's free only if you are unemployed. LOL. On top of that you are obliged to take medical insurance; if one doesn't, they are taxed an additional amount of money every year.
> 
> Moreover the current government has watered down Medicare benefits, especially changes to bulk billing that it is almost recognizable as a social benefit anymore. However, if you have an emergency, like a heart attack or a stroke (God forbid), they'll treat you immediately with your Medicare card.


in all honesty 2% for Medicare Levy is a steal 

You don't really want to know how much you could end up paying without it

and the Medicare Levy Surcharge vs. Private Health Fund is also a steal. You could get extra coverage via your PHF for less than the Medicare Levy Surcharge

It's ALMOST free ... imagine if you need surgery or get admitted for a prolonged period

There is no such thing as a free lunch mate, but I reckon we're getting an open buffet here for a very small price


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

dave85 said:


> You need local experience for jobs because these jobs are also relevant to the local population (i.e., Australians who live, study, and work here). Essentially, you are not the only person who is qualified for these jobs. Out of 50 applicants, there are probably 10 Australians, 20 migrants who had lived in Australia for a while, and 20 migrants such as yourself.
> 
> Your qualifications are no big deal when 50 others have similar (or even better) qualifications.


EXACTLY MY POINT! That's the reality. I hate it, but that's the reality. Whether my qualifications are inferior to others is a totally different debate.


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Mithung said:


> Not yet. I haven't moved yet, but I will be moving soon. I am fully aware of what I am up against and I am ready to take that risk.


Good, you are aware. You are welcome to make your own decision.


----------



## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

Simon Matthew said:


> EXACTLY MY POINT! That's the reality. I hate it, but that's the reality. Whether my qualifications are inferior to others is a totally different debate.


Your qualifications (and experiences) are part of the debate. The reality on the ground is that there are many other applicants who are more suitable for these jobs other than you. 

In other words, the job market is very competitive, and you are not competitive enough to secure the job. Having local experience is to help make you more competitive for the job application.


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Mithung said:


> Getting an Aussie sim might get you 1 call. Getting an Aussie sim might get you 1 call. Do you think the recruiters/HRs aren't smart enough to figure that out.


Another distorted view. If you appear to be in Australia (a ROAMING SIM can achieve this) and you claim that you are in Australia and you claim that you can join immediately; what difference does it make where you are PHYSICALLY located? You make it sound like they'll call you today (the 16th of December) and ask you to join on the (18th of December) without a screening process, a technical interview and a HR interview . In my experience, when they ask you to come down for an interview, they give you a few days' time to prepare. I've never been asked to appear in front of a selection panel without a notice of atleast 4 working days. Usually they call me on Monday and ask me to attend an interview on Thursday. It gives you ample time to make up an excuse with an employer (family problems) purchase a ticket, book a hotel and fly down to whichever city you need to interview at.

I'm at Sydney and I'm interviewing for roles in Melbourne, Brisbane and Adelade. Do you think I'm going there in person for interviews at places other than Sydney? No, they prefer Skype. Why? Because a lot of them won't commit and get my hopes up and I'm deeply appreciative of that. I'm IN AUSTRALIA and I do SKYPE interviews. Does that sound far fetched? It's the REALITY. Can anyone challenge me on this?

Moreover, if you can't convince someone that you are actively and enthusiastically looking for a job over the phone, how can you convince them to give you a job in person? It all comes down to your communication skills



Mithung said:


> Just think for a minute. When there are thousands available in Australia looking for a job who can join in 2 days notice, why would they even bother to look elsewhere.


Think longer than a minute. When there are thousands available, what makes you a cut above the rest?


----------



## pipebritop (Sep 6, 2015)

Simon Matthew said:


> Another distorted view. If you appear to be in Australia (a ROAMING SIM can achieve this) and you claim that you are in Australia and you claim that you can join immediately; what difference does it make where you are PHYSICALLY located? You make it sound like they'll call you today (the 16th of December) and ask you to join on the (18th of December) without a screening process, a technical interview and a HR interview . In my experience, when they ask you to come down for an interview, they give you a few days' time to prepare. I've never been asked to appear in front of a selection panel without a notice of atleast 4 working days. Usually they call me on Monday and ask me to attend an interview on Thursday. It gives you ample time to make up an excuse with an employer (family problems) purchase a ticket, book a hotel and fly down to whichever city you need to interview at.
> 
> I'm at Sydney and I'm interviewing for roles in Melbourne, Brisbane and Adelade. Do you think I'm going there in person for interviews at places other than Sydney? No, they prefer Skype. Why? Because a lot of them won't commit and get my hopes up and I'm deeply appreciative of that. I'm IN AUSTRALIA and I do SKYPE interviews. Does that sound far fetched? It's the REALITY. Can anyone challenge me on this?
> 
> ...


Simón you are demonstrating by yourself that you are not that smart as you think. Why you need to defend against any contrary opinion?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Mithung said:


> Getting an Aussie sim might get you 1 call. Do you think the recruiters/HRs aren't smart enough to figure that out.


This is the kind of exaggeration I hate. Posts from people who've never been in Australia and exaggerate beyond belief to win an argument. Why only one call? Do you think that the jobs are dispersed from a central location? Or that when one recruiter realizes you are not in Australia, they'll call up every other recruiter and inform them and blacklist your profile? Rubbish.

Moreover, there are areas in Australia that are so remote that operators like Vodafone, Telstra and Optus are all about to have LOCAL roaming agreements. 

Telstra exec slams Vodafone's arguments for domestic roaming

When I travelled from Sydney to Melbourne via train a few months ago, my SIM switched to Optus. In order to complete your mobile call, if your home network (HLR) has to look you up in the remote network (VLR), the call will sound different. You can tell them you are in some remote location in Australia to cut down on rental costs, because the rents are cheap in those remote areas.

This is how it will look (regardless of whether it is National or international roaming)

Vodafone HLR -> Vodafone VLR -> Telstra VLR/Airtel VLR -> Telstra HLR/Airtel VLR.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

dave85 said:


> Your qualifications (and experiences) are part of the debate. The reality on the ground is that there are many other applicants who are more suitable for these jobs other than you.
> 
> In other words, the job market is very competitive, and you are not competitive enough to secure the job. Having local experience is to help make you more competitive for the job application.


They are only part of the debate if my profile is CONSIDERED for the role I'm applying for. Moreover, it has already been assessed by the Australian assessment body. If I wasn't qualified, then I wouldn't have been granted the visa. Don't tell me why it isn't considered, tell me if it is FAIR?

When I'm denied the entry into a job market with an impossible criteria, I believe that it is a deliberate attempt having insidious intentions. I don't expect to get support from you, because in my opinion, a majority of expats don't want to help new arrivals, because:
- Then you can't jack up your rates.
- You couldn't care less.


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> in all honesty 2% for Medicare Levy is a steal
> 
> You don't really want to know how much you could end up paying without it
> 
> ...


Medicare is being watered down. No one can guarantee its existence. That's the point that I'm trying to make. You are taking a positive spin on matters and this forum is full of that. I'm giving them a realistic approach. Readers should be able to reach an impassioned conclusion on their own.

No Cookies | Herald Sun
Medicare overhaul puts patients at risk, doctors unimpressed
Cuts to Medicare set to increase costs and end bulk billing, say doctors - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

bright future said:


> I totally agree with the Medicare part. We have one of the best medical systems in the world, which actually works! I was paying US$1,500 per month for my family coverage in California. Here I pay only 1.5% of my salary pa.
> 
> Please read my blog (classified forum) and you will realise that how lucky we are here in Australia. I spent 7 years in USA and believe me the medicare system is a failure there. Go compare the stats on life expectancy etc. Please hep this thing in mind that USA is spending many times more than Australia but the results say otherwise.
> 
> ...


That is an over simplification. Life expectancy depends on a range of factors. I can compare Australia with Syria. The benefits will be much more greater. Or, let's compare it with Malawi, the poorest country in Africa. Wow, I most certainly must be in the Matrix now!

Let me ask you a question. Would you be happy if you went to apply for your Australian Citizenship and were told that you needed to be a citizen before applying for a Citizenship? 

That's exactly the same logic they are insisting on when new arrivals apply for jobs. Want a job in Australia? Sure, no problem. You must work in Australia first, though.


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## Huss81 (May 17, 2013)

I got a job without Australian experience. Infact, that was the first interview I gave and I got selected. They never asked me for any Aussie experience, and many people are not asked. I don't know why you go on harping about the Local Experience point. 

Medical facilities are top class here; imagine going to a GP and paying only 7$ for an appointment. Or paying nothing at all. Where would you get that? The 1.5% Medicare Levy is peanuts in comparison to the cost you MAY pay if God Forbid something major happens.

I have gone through all your posts, and I still believe that all you intend to do is coax people into believing that they might not be making the right decision. Each person has different circumstances , different experiences and different job profiles.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

bright future said:


> As I posted before too, I totally agree with you on the 'local experience' part. But having said that many do get the 'çitizenships even before applying for citizenships" (they get jobs without Australian experience).
> 
> I was comparing USA with Australia and not with any third world country about their Medical system and we as migrants are also enjoying the same benefits.
> 
> Have a bright future!!


LOL. If you want to compare, then compare USA with Canada. Compare Australia with New Zealand. That's a fair comparison.

Here is what medicare covers:
http://www.privatehealth.gov.au/healthinsurance/whatiscovered/medicare.htm
http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/medicare-your-questions-answered


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Huss81 said:


> I got a job without Australian experience. Infact, that was the first interview I gave and I got selected. They never asked me for any Aussie experience, and many people are not asked. I don't know why you go on harping about the Local Experience point.
> 
> Medical facilities are top class here; imagine going to a GP and paying only 7$ for an appointment. Or paying nothing at all. Where would you get that? The 1.5% Medicare Levy is peanuts in comparison to the cost you MAY pay if God Forbid something major happens.
> 
> I have gone through all your posts, and I still believe that all you intend to do is coax people into believing that they might not be making the right decision. Each person has different circumstances , different experiences and different job profiles.





Huss81 said:


> I don't know why you go on harping about the Local Experience point.


He who hasn't experienced it, will not understand it.



Huss81 said:


> I have gone through all your posts, and I still believe that all you intend to do is coax people into believing that they might not be making the right decision. Each person has different circumstances , different experiences and different job profiles.


Why does that upset you? Is it because my post will lead to a reduction in the number of migrants coming here and stop fueling the economy (eventually leading residents here to cut back on their way of life)?


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

pipebritop said:


> Simón you are demonstrating by yourself that you are not that smart as you think.


Smart? How do you mean? I don't get your point at all. Could you clarify further please?



pipebritop said:


> Why you need to defend against any contrary opinion?


This is purely a debate. We ask, answer, reason and let the readers decide for themselves. Every person has the right to two sides of a story. I'm not forcing anyone to read my thread. If they think that I am a deranged loony bird, they can tell me so and move on. In fact, if they did do that, I would have nothing to say, because it's not an intelligent remark and I would have nothing constructive to say/reply about/to that post.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> Medicare is being watered down. No one can guarantee its existence. That's the point that I'm trying to make. You are taking a positive spin on matters and this forum is full of that. I'm giving them a realistic approach. Readers should be able to reach an impassioned conclusion on their own.
> 
> No Cookies | Herald Sun
> Medicare overhaul puts patients at risk, doctors unimpressed
> Cuts to Medicare set to increase costs and end bulk billing, say doctors - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


I can't guarantee I'll be alive till tomorrow either

LNP is TRYING to decrease some of the Medicare benefits, Labor and Greens and other left wing factions (e.g. Nick Xenophon Team) aren't letting them.

The media is full of politicised bull crap ..... Even if Medicare gets "watered down" ... When Labor are back in the driver's seat they'll restore it.

Plus, I think even after being watered down it's still better off other countries with no universal health cover ..... 

In all honesty, you are oozing with negativity .... No one is trying to put a positive spin on anything but again you are saying we are cheery and you are a realist. I disagree, you are being an absolute negativist to be honest (which - according to freedom of speech - you are entitled to) ......


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> LOL. If you want to compare, then compare USA with Canada. Compare Australia with New Zealand. That's a fair comparison.
> 
> Here is what medicare covers:
> What is covered by Medicare?
> Department of Health | Your questions answered


In all honesty if it's that stuffed up here, why aren't you working on your exit plan to return to your home country or to another country? 

Again, I am not saying you do not have the right to vent or criticise, and I am in no way saying "if you don't like it, leave" because it's not up to anyone to ask you this. I am just inquiring gently, - and feel free to not answer if you don't feel like it - if it's really that bad and gloomy why are you staying?


----------



## Huss81 (May 17, 2013)

TheExpatriate said:


> In all honesty if it's that stuffed up here, why aren't you working on your exit plan to return to your home country or to another country?
> 
> Again, I am not saying you do not have the right to vent or criticise, and I am in no way saying "if you don't like it, leave" because it's not up to anyone to ask you this. I am just inquiring gently, - and feel free to not answer if you don't feel like it - if it's really that bad and gloomy why are you staying?


More in hope I guess...


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> Careful now, that sounded like a guarantee.


No, I am standing on the history

Labor restored Medicare a couple of times before when Liberals "watered it down"



Simon Matthew said:


> <*SNIP*>. One noticeable difference in the post that you made is that you aren't calling me "mate" anymore. Why is that? Am I not your "mate" anymore?


I have not been conditioned and I retain my heritage and background




Simon Matthew said:


> Migration is a business. In my conversation with a consultant, he told me that there are 3 sectors that are cash rich - Education, Banking and the Health Sector. I wonder why? If you don't have to pay a newly arriving migrant any benefits and he comes here with his own cash to spend in this economy, thats a bonus for this government?


No one owes the migrants - including myself as a migrant- anything.

The visa fee we paid is not our free pass to everything free ..... 

and yes, the government planned that program with a pragmatic view that they will bring in people who will not get benefits at the beginning so they'd work, plug the workforce gap, pay tax, increase demand on goods and services to stimulate the economy ....etc.



Simon Matthew said:


> I'm not a refugee or an asylum seeker. They WANTED me to come here, and so I have the right to criticize and complain. You are an expat, why aren't you identifying with my problems and acknowledging that there is an issue? <*SNIP*>!


Sorry, I beg to differ. They wanted you to come here, but it doesn't mean they begged you to come here, and if you hadn't come, there would've been thousands of people wishing to come

No one said you do NOT have the right to criticise, complain, or even curse. Freedom of speech is one of the main reason I am here. I made much more money overseas btw.

<*SNIP*>





Simon Matthew said:


> Would that be convenient for you? <*SNIP*>.


I don't "push" people to apply. I help people who WANT to apply. 

If a prospect asks me for their chances at a job, I vehemently refuse to give any guarantees and tell them "I can't guarantee you anything, you're on your own". 

If a prospect asks me to "convince" them to move to Australia, I tell them that it's not really my job to do so, I can help you if you want to, but I can't make you or convince you to want to.

I actually lose lots of prospects because of that, and they prefer to go to other agents/consultants who promise them the moon, but I'd rather stick to what I know only: Visas.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> An injustice has been carried out against me and I intend to change it. <*SNIP*>.


what injustice? Did anyone promise you anything before you came here and then retracted their words?


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Mate, I think we agree to disagree here. You think it's all doom and gloom, we think it's not ..... 

You think we see it rosy (we don't), we think you see it black and blue (you don't think so too) ..... 

I don't see a point in us convincing you or you convincing us of the opposite.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> No, I am standing on the history
> .
> .
> .
> ...


How can you ask me to take a page from history and yet deny the documented proof of <*SNIP*> manipulating groups and ethnicity against each other. Have you forgotten the horrors of British imperalism (Divide and Rule - The partition, Pakistan and India are not figments of my imagination) and European occupation through out Asia and Africa?

Didnt the FBI use the same divide and rule approach to destroy the Black Panther movement in the US? These are documented and not figments of my imagination. I'm not even going to touch the Middle East manipulations, because then it would never end.

The idea is simple. Throw a bone to a few people (not after they've suffered a bit), get them happy and brainwash them into thinking how important local experience is, then those people will continue the legacy. Simple and effective.



TheExpatriate said:


> No one owes the migrants - including myself as a migrant- anything.
> 
> The visa fee we paid is not our free pass to everything free .....
> 
> and yes, the government planned that program with a pragmatic view that they will bring in people who will not get benefits at the beginning so they'd work, plug the workforce gap, pay tax, increase demand on goods and services to stimulate the economy ....etc.


Did I ask for free benefits? The whole purpose of this thread is to highlight the discrimination against migrants. If you are going to bring me in and then tell me I can't find a job, because I wasnt employed here to begin with, that IS DISCRIMINATION. Since we are migrants from 3rd world countries, they can do that to us and get away with it. Why? Because we have been facing discrimination all through out our life and this is just a continuation. Nothing new, so we suffer quietly.

Of course, for those expecting any sort of support from the government can forget about it completely.



TheExpatriate said:


> I don't "push" people to apply. I help people who WANT to apply.
> 
> If a prospect asks me for their chances at a job, I vehemently refuse to give any guarantees and tell them "I can't guarantee you anything, you're on your own".
> 
> ...


Then you should have absolutely no problem. We both agree on the same point.


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> You think we see it rosy (we don't)


I've now made my point.


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

To all posters, just a reminder. 

Some posts in this thread are teetering close to personal attacks. Address the issues, and do so strongly if you wish. 

Do not use bad language, do not be racist, do not attack other posters.

Where opinions differ, sometimes tempers can fray. 

I'll accept a strong, even heated discussion but if members move outside the rules, notably Rules 1 and 2, here: http://www.expatforum.com/expats/general-expat-discussions/2397-forum-rules.html, infractions will follow.

*Expatforum.com is an interactive site. Please treat others here the way you wish to be treated, with respect, and without insult or personal attack. Personal attacks will NOT be tolerated. Trolling on this site is not tolerated, that being deliberately inflammatory posts, and trolls will be removed from the site immediately.

Sexually explicit, racist, obscene or vulgar language, graphics or behaviour is NOT acceptable on this site. Should anyone use inappropriate language, engage in a personal attack, or use hate speech, their posting rights will be revoked immediately.*


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> what injustice? Did anyone promise you anything before you came here and then retracted their words?


Yes, the government with their issuance of PR and then creating a situation that would render it useless.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> Yes, the government with their issuance of PR and then creating a situation that would render it useless.


The government did not create a situation.

The government did not promise you a job with that PR.

There is no "contract" between you and them that you will get a job in X days from arrival.

Employers can be picky and choosy, I agree

Local experience matters to some of them, but I have seen MANY people get jobs without it, and I have seen also many people suffer to get the first job, then once they do, next jobs were easier.

Job market is competitive, fair enough. Anyone with basic Google search skills or even browsing Aussie forums such as this forum or other forums will know that the first job is always the hardest.

But, discrimination, injustice, etc. or whatever you are touting here, are too big words for the real situation.



Mate you are in serious need for a reality check. 

and in all sincerity, I wish you the best and wish you get a job ASAP and feel better.


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

TheExpatriate said:


> The government did not create a situation.
> 
> The government did not promise you a job with that PR.
> 
> ...


Hi TheExpatriate,

It would be really great if you could answer the following question.

1. I have currently lodged my visa application under subclass 189, and say if i get a positive decision and move the AU without a job, Am i entitled to anyform of medicare aid from the government whilst on 189 PR visa and without a job?
2. If the government does not provide any benefits to unemployed 189 pr immmigrants, can i get any private insurance?, if yes how much would that cost me and how is the quality of coverage?


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

gonnabeexpat said:


> Hi TheExpatriate,
> 
> It would be really great if you could answer the following question.
> 
> ...


1. Yes
2. Private insurance is not cheap. Moreover, it isn't helpful if you don't have a job


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

Simon Matthew said:


> 1. Yes
> 2. Private insurance is not cheap. Moreover, it isn't helpful if you don't have a job


Thanks for the reply. To what extent am I covered on Pr visa ? Could you please elaborate?

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> The government did not create a situation.
> 
> The government did not promise you a job with that PR.
> 
> ...


If you think that issuing a PR is not a way of the government welcoming you in this country, then why issue it in the first place. They can let anyone in and try their luck here. Look at the gulf countries. They don't issue PRs. They have visit visas. They don't take your profile, judge it, put points on it and decide whether you are eligible to work there or not. They leave it to the employers to decide.

If the government of Australia doesn't control the job market, then why open and close these invitations? Right now, Victoria has closed 189 visa applications for 4 months.

Temporary closure in skilled applications for ICT occupations - Live in Victoria

Victorian Government closes skilled visa applications for ICT occupations | SBS Your Language

Yes, everyone agrees with what I say, they just dont like the WAY I said it. Just too candid for peoples taste. There is nothing wrong with my head and I promise you and everyone here that if I were to be on a selection board, I will always prefer a new migrant over one that has "local experience".

I take care to post links, use evidence from history or current news to prove my point; but the challenges to my post are purely emotional.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

gonnabeexpat said:


> Thanks for the reply. To what extent am I covered on Pr visa ? Could you please elaborate?
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


You have the same privileges of using Medicare like a citizen here does. Are you looking for something specific? Do you have a particular ailment that you need to check? A few posts above, I posted links about Medicare eligibility. You may go through them, if you like.


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

Simon Matthew said:


> You have the same privileges of using Medicare like a citizen here does. Are you looking for something specific? Do you have a particular ailment that you need to check? A few posts above, I posted links about Medicare eligibility. You may go through them, if you like.


Thanks a ton for clarifying this. No problem I will have a look at it myself. 

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## tofy79 (Dec 27, 2013)

Dear Brother Simon/TheExpatriate Basha, Form Mates;

thanks for interesting debate,
please look to my special case and give your opinion (feedback)
I am Iraqi and I am currently living and work in Dubai since 11 years as Senior IT,

As you know Iraq after 2003 turned to hell country, and I believe like hundred thousand of Iraqis the Iraq will not comeback stable even after next 50 years,
honestly says in Dubai situation is fine, and I believe also UAE is most right place for brothers from Middle-east, India, and Pakistan, I am working in environment with almost 350 IT staff from India, Egypt Pakistan, Yemen, Jordan, LOCALs, Syria, Philippine and so on, we all work as one hand and without any discrimination.
But In my case, concerns if I lost my job or for any reasons or I became in situation which make me to leave UAE, then in this case I don’t have place or home to go, As the Dirty ISIS terrorist gangster destroyed recently my city almost completely.

I was being thinking for long time for immigration, and which is best Canada or Australia, for two reasons I selected Australia (Job Opportunity and weather) is much better than Canada, also IELTS is Most Unfair Exam in the World, and PTE Academic is right replacement and this only work with Australia but not Canada.
Furthermore, still I believe in comparison between U.S, Canada, New Zealand, and Europe, with Australia, then Australia is most Racial Discrimination Country as what I am hearing frequently,
Now, as per Brother Simon, and many mates here they brought to the board Unemployment issue which is in high percentage is true. Then only the weather is feature here!
Kindly what the recommendation for my case?

@ Simon Sir, 
If the Time came back to the past, do you will again apply for Australia Immigration or you will change destination to another like Canada or New Zealand?


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

tofy79 said:


> Dear Brother Simon/TheExpatriate Basha, Form Mates;
> 
> thanks for interesting debate,
> please look to my special case and give your opinion (feedback)
> ...


First of all, my deepest sympathies to your country, fellow country men and I hope your family and loved ones are safe. I have many Muslim friends and I was in Dubai for a long time and all I can say that your treatment is unfair.

The reality: It will be much harder for you to land a job in your profession. The resentment is high and in my opinion, it might be alright for you, but your children will suffer eventually. If you still have the opportunity, please do not waste your money on your PR application, because if you do, you might end up flipping burgers or picking fruit to make a living. Where would you rather do that?

In your case, I would suggest to find a MNC in gulf, get in, then look for international transfer to the country you want to work in. I could have come here on a 457 and then worked my way up to a 189/PR. That's what I would do if I had the chance to do this all over again.


----------



## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

gonnabeexpat said:


> Hi TheExpatriate,
> 
> It would be really great if you could answer the following question.
> 
> ...


1- Yes. Full Medicare ..

2- N/A as answer to #1 is Yes


----------



## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> If you think that issuing a PR is not a way of the government welcoming you in this country, then why issue it in the first place. They can let anyone in and try their luck here. Look at the gulf countries. They don't issue PRs. They have visit visas. They don't take your profile, judge it, put points on it and decide whether you are eligible to work there or not. They leave it to the employers to decide.
> 
> If the government of Australia doesn't control the job market, then why open and close these invitations? Right now, Victoria has closed 189 visa applications for 4 months.
> 
> ...


You love to argue, don't you?

Giving a visa is not equivalent to "welcoming"

and if you think Gulf Countries with their archaic quasi-slavery employment law and "Kafeel" system is better than Australia, you seriously need help !!


----------



## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

tofy79 said:


> Dear Brother Simon/TheExpatriate Basha, Form Mates;
> 
> thanks for interesting debate,
> please look to my special case and give your opinion (feedback)
> ...


Hi Tofy

I have been living here for more than a year and I can't see any form of discrimination. 

In all honesty I would say the first developed country to give you a visa/PR, take it ! The situation in the ME is stuffed beyond repair as you said and it's not the time to be choosy.


----------



## Black_Rose (Nov 28, 2013)

Simon Matthew said:


> Disclaimer: I'm neither anti-Australian nor a pessimist. This thread aims to bring the stark reality of the job market to newly arriving migrants, particularly those who aim to migrate in 2017
> 
> (1) First and foremost, newly arriving migrants have to wait at least 104 weeks (that is 2 years) before you are eligible for any sort of benefits/social payment in Australia. This means that when you arrive here, don't expect the government or anyone to support you financially and help you with anything. People talk the talk, but mostly don't walk the walk.
> 
> ...



OOOOKKKK.. so are you back to your country?


----------



## tofy79 (Dec 27, 2013)

TheExpatriate said:


> Hi Tofy
> 
> I have been living here for more than a year and I can't see any form of discrimination.
> 
> In all honesty I would say the first developed country to give you a visa/PR, take it ! The situation in the ME is stuffed beyond repair as you said and it's not the time to be choosy.


Many Thanks Basha,

You exactly point the finger on the pain point, only few can understands the matter in ME,
To find safe place is absolutely outweigh who aim to change from normal stable country to one more development.
everyone have his/her own priority, and maybe mine is considered as human bean case than try to enhance life style.


----------



## tofy79 (Dec 27, 2013)

Simon Matthew said:


> First of all, my deepest sympathies to your country, fellow country men and I hope your family and loved ones are safe. I have many Muslim friends and I was in Dubai for a long time and all I can say that your treatment is unfair.
> 
> The reality: It will be much harder for you to land a job in your profession. The resentment is high and in my opinion, it might be alright for you, but your children will suffer eventually. If you still have the opportunity, please do not waste your money on your PR application, because if you do, you might end up flipping burgers or picking fruit to make a living. Where would you rather do that?
> 
> In your case, I would suggest to find a MNC in gulf, get in, then look for international transfer to the country you want to work in. I could have come here on a 457 and then worked my way up to a 189/PR. That's what I would do if I had the chance to do this all over again.


Many Thanks Simon Bhai,

I appreciate your transparency and your suggestion to find MNC as alternative solution.
i aim at the end to find stable country like Australia, Canada or New Zealand to move permanently and keep my family safe.


----------



## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

tofy79 said:


> Many Thanks Simon Bhai,
> 
> I appreciate your transparency and your suggestion to find MNC as alternative solution.
> i aim at the end to find stable country like Australia, Canada or New Zealand to move permanently and keep my family safe.


Exactly, in the lovely, tax-free GCC, everyone is expendable and can be sent home in an eyeblink

<sarcasm>

But many people choose to overlook this simple fact to feel better about their decision of not moving to "white-man-land" which is discriminatory and heavily taxed 

</sarcasm>


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> You love to argue, don't you?


Only when you are wrong. 



TheExpatriate said:


> Giving a visa is not equivalent to "welcoming"
> 
> and if you think Gulf Countries with their archaic quasi-slavery employment law and "Kafeel" system is better than Australia, you seriously need help !!


No, I didn't say that their system is better, but it definitely means that there is a difference, isn't there? If the Australian government deems me fit to work here, how does the Australian businesses have the right to reject that claiming I don't have local experience?

Moreover, I have a feeling you are not reading my entire post. You just pick things and then have an emotional outburst. How do I know you are not just saying these things to be politically correct or for fear of being monitored. Or worse to protect your business? You aren't really an impartial observer in all of this, are you? You stand to gain from increased migration.

Btw, there are many forms of slavery, maybe what I'm facing is economic slavery?


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> Hi Tofy
> 
> I have been living here for more than a year and I can't see any form of discrimination.
> 
> In all honesty I would say the first developed country to give you a visa/PR, take it ! The situation in the ME is stuffed beyond repair as you said and it's not the time to be choosy.


Now who needs the reality check.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> Exactly, in the lovely, tax-free GCC, everyone is expendable and can be sent home in an eyeblink
> 
> <sarcasm>
> 
> ...


He can only guarantee himself entry into Australia. But if he wants to do the job that he loves, there is not guarantee. Is it wise for him to throw away his job in Dubai and come over here on a mere promise of a job. Of course not! The way I see it, he is pretty comfortable in a multi-cultural environment.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> No, I didn't say that their system is better, but it definitely means that there is a difference, isn't there? If the Australian government deems me fit to work here, how does the Australian businesses have the right to reject that claiming I don't have local experience?
> 
> Moreover, I have a feeling you are not reading my entire post. You just pick things and then have an emotional outburst. How do I know you are not just saying these things to be politically correct or for fear of being monitored. Or worse to protect your business? You aren't really an impartial observer in all of this, are you? You stand to gain from increased migration.
> 
> Btw, there are many forms of slavery, maybe what I'm facing is economic slavery?


because Australia is not Soviet Russia. The government can't and won't force an employee on an employer or make everyone work for the state.

They never deemed you fit to work, they deemed you skilled in a certain occupation. Big difference.

I am reading your posts very well. I am not being politically correct. Fear of being monitored? LMFAO.... Monitored for what? I openly disparage and criticise the government and its actions on social media and in public. Come on, this is Australia, not Soviet Russia again !

Protecting my business? Dude, in all honesty, I have more business than I can even handle, and this forum is NOT my primary marketing platform. Migration sells as hot cakes, and I don't even think your post would even affect migration inflow to Australia let alone my tiny teeny sliver of so-called business from migrants. I am just trying to counter argue that the image though not rosy as some paint it, but is not charry as you paint it. 

Attacking my impartiality is not going to help your argument. I have been around this forum for almost 4 years now, and that is 2 and a half years before I even became an agent ! 

And no, it's not economic slavery, no one is slaving you. You can find another job, a temp/casual job to make a living while you find a job in your field, and you are free to move elsewhere, no one will stop you at Sydney International Departures.

Slavery is like in other countries where passports are kept, wages are not paid, workers abused, forced to work overtime, etc.

Here it's free-market, I am free to employ you or not employ you, you are free to work for me or for someone else. You are free to stay or leave. By no means it's slavery.


----------



## Mithung (Feb 5, 2016)

Simon Matthew said:


> And by that extension, you don't care if others come and have to struggle for 3 months or a year or have to return back empty handed. You simply don't care and I promise you that when you rise to the position of being able to select someone for your team, you'll probably not even prefer to hire someone new (You struggled, so why should you make it easy for somebody else?). This is evident by my interaction with different people in Australia: if there is an asian migrant at the selection board, you can kiss your chances goodbye. BUT I CARE. That's why I created this thread.


Oh so you are really care about other migrants. Then what are you crying for? You should be happy that some other migrant got the job instead of you. You should be happy that some migrant's struggles are over.




Simon Matthew said:


> Because I already bit the bullet. I kissed goodbye to my career and everyone in my network knows that I'm seriously considering to be in Australia for the rest of my life. If I go back now, I have to look for jobs at 2 fronts. One where I'm locally located and another for Australia! If I were to land a job simultaneously, and had to anger even one valuable contact in my network, then I risk not landing an opportunity with him/her (at some point in the future) if for some reason I had to leave Australia permanently.
> 
> If I were to go back now, I have to pay for my air ticket (are the tickets cheap?) and with no job back home and no prospects here in Australia, I will be burning through my savings much quicker than if I stayed. That's just common sense. Moreover, in a few months' time, I have to bring my family over for their first visit. Money is tight. Working at McDonalds won't even scratch the surface and will further my chances at landing a job.


Its called EGO. You are ashamed to go back. You are worried about what your contacts will think if you go back. Going back is a much better option. It is much cheaper being jobless in India than in Australia. Everybody here talks about that guy who went to Australia, failed and came back home. Went back and succeeded. You should read this thread. Your flight ticket cost will be equivalent to 2-3 weeks of stay in Sydney. It is nothing compared to what you have been spending so far.

Everybody has problems man. You should be ready to work in McDonalds if need be. In fact you should have been ready for it even before you landed in Aus. If you meet any students, talk to them and ask how much they earn working part time.



Simon Matthew said:


> You agree and disagree with me at the same time.  Although, I really doubt if the struggles and insight into the day to day workings of the Australian society and economy has been documented on a real time basis.


Like I said earlier you have listed issues that I am already aware of. So I agree with you on that. What I disagree is your way of seeing things. Everything is about YOU. I did that, I did this, I didn't get selected. You look to blame everybody else but yourself. 



Simon Matthew said:


> Yeah, I know the post is a bit aggressive, but it's to prevent sympathetic reactions. It seems to be working.


Doesn't seem to be working. If you noticed, most of the members who disagreed were aggressive in their first post, but they softened their tone in the subsequent posts and you didn't. Being aggressive is not the only way to prove your point. This thread would head nowhere if everyone got aggressive.




Simon Matthew said:


> Good, you are aware. You are welcome to make your own decision.


I think I made the right decision the day I decided to migrate to Australia. I was very well aware of the ground realities. I used to tell my friends that immigration must be a major contributor to Australian economy. I went through the process by myself and not even once did the Australian government guarantee any jobs, respect, no racism etc. Rules and policies are bound to change and there is nothing we can do about it.




Simon Matthew said:


> Another distorted view. If you appear to be in Australia (a ROAMING SIM can achieve this) and you claim that you are in Australia and you claim that you can join immediately; what difference does it make where you are PHYSICALLY located?


Did it ever occur to you, that if they caught your lie, your resume could be blacklisted for ever? 
I am Mechanical engineer and the number of recruiters are far less than what you have in IT. So if your suggestion works in my case, it would be the same guy calling me over and over again for different jobs and I give an excuse everytime? He may be the only recruiter I am dealing with, but he must have dealt with thousands like me.

And in most job applications, we need to provide address also. So we provide fake address also? If we can fake so many things, why cant be just fake our whole resume?



Simon Matthew said:


> Moreover, if you can't convince someone that you are actively and enthusiastically looking for a job over the phone, how can you convince them to give you a job in person? It all comes down to your communication skills


Something you should be thinking about. If you have been giving so many interviews and not been offered a job, something must be wrong. Now please done give me the system or Chinese thing.



Simon Matthew said:


> This is the kind of exaggeration I hate. Posts from people who've never been in Australia and exaggerate beyond belief to win an argument. Why only one call?


Wow. You spoke to couple of recruiters, failed several interviews and now you became an expert on HR processes, Australian policies etc? So does one grow a brain or have some common sense only if they are in Australia? Please don't be under the impression that you have seen it all. Just because YOU FAILED it doesnt mean EVERYBODY WILL FAIL.

I am not here to win any argument nor do I have to convince you of all the people. Unlike you, I don't take anything personally.

I have been applying for jobs from India since June. Do you want me to show you the number of mails and responses I got. I have tried everything under the sun. I have redone by cover letters, resume a zillion times, offered to be available for interviews etc. 




Simon Matthew said:


> An injustice has been carried out against me and I intend to change it. I'm not going to let those smug *******s smirking behind my back to get away with it.


Good luck with that and I really hope to see you on some newspaper when I land in Australia.
Also I hope that YOU WALK YOUR TALK



Simon Matthew said:


> Yes, everyone agrees with what I say, they just dont like the WAY I said it. Just too candid for peoples taste.


If that makes you feel better, so be it.


I am just wondering if you have worked or lived in India because I have never heard of any Simon Matthew making a noise about no medicare, no infrastructure, corruption, government policies etc in India. Why is that so?

Also, would your narrative be the same, had you secured a job in a week? Would then Australia be the most happening place on earth, the land that respects every migrant, the land that gives everything back to migrants, the land that everyone must migrate to, the land with zero corruption, the land with the best policies???

I rest my case here. I see no reason to discuss with someone who thinks he is the only one who is right and the rest are fools, any further.


----------



## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> He can only guarantee himself entry into Australia. But if he wants to do the job that he loves, there is not guarantee. Is it wise for him to throw away his job in Dubai and come over here on a mere promise of a job. Of course not! The way I see it, he is pretty comfortable in a multi-cultural environment.


yeah and it's wise to stay in Dubai where he can get deported to Iraq on any given day because

1- His sponsor feels like it
2- The government no longer wants to renew his visa without giving any reason, or citing the vague "security reasons" justification
3- He loses his job and has 28 days to depart
4- His employer lays him off

Come on, you are absolutely detached from reality to advise an Iraqi national to remain in the GCC and do away with immigration to any developed country where he'd be safe


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> 1- Yes. Full Medicare ..
> 
> 2- N/A as answer to #1 is Yes


(2) You are wrong again. You are obliged to take private insurance or pay an additional surcharge for Medicare. Read about Lifetime Health Cover and the rules about financial loading.

Department of Health | Lifetime Health Cover - Frequently Asked Questions


----------



## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> (2) You are wrong again. You are obliged to take private insurance or pay an additional surcharge for Medicare. Read about Lifetime Health Cover and the rules about financial loading.
> 
> Department of Health | Lifetime Health Cover - Frequently Asked Questions


You are wrong, read his question for crying out loud before passing judgements. He mentioned if he's UNEMPLOYED. UNEMPLOYED means he won't be paying Medicare levy, let alone Medicare levy surcharge, so he doesn't have to take out PHF to avoid a surcharge that he won't be even paying since he's unemployed

Your income (single) needs to be $90K + or $180K+ if family (not sure about the exact figures but they are in that rough neighborhood). How can an unemployed person make $90K+ ?


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Mithung said:


> Oh so you are really care about other migrants. Then what are you crying for? You should be happy that some other migrant got the job instead of you. You should be happy that some migrant's struggles are over.


Yes, I am happy for them. I congratulated them on their success.



Mithung said:


> Its called EGO. You are ashamed to go back. You are worried about what your contacts will think if you go back. Going back is a much better option. It is much cheaper being jobless in India than in Australia. Everybody here talks about that guy who went to Australia, failed and came back home. Went back and succeeded. You should read this thread. Your flight ticket cost will be equivalent to 2-3 weeks of stay in Sydney. It is nothing compared to what you have been spending so far.


No, it wont be. Because if they call me for an interview, I would have to come back and that would cost me even more money. If you really believe my rationalisations were rubbish, then so be it. Like I said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and feel free to add yours. Let the readers judge what is right and wrong.



Mithung said:


> Everybody has problems man. You should be ready to work in McDonalds if need be. In fact you should have been ready for it even before you landed in Aus. If you meet any students, talk to them and ask how much they earn working part time.


I never said that flipping burgers had no dignity. But you have to admit that for a good portion of people who gave up their good jobs to come here to further their career would be dissappointed with that kind of role.




Mithung said:


> Like I said earlier you have listed issues that I am already aware of. So I agree with you on that. What I disagree is your way of seeing things.
> 
> Doesn't seem to be working. If you noticed, most of the members who disagreed were aggressive in their first post, but they softened their tone in the subsequent posts and you didn't. Being aggressive is not the only way to prove your point. This thread would head nowhere if everyone got aggressive.


OK good. If they are softening, they could be because they are running out of reasons and eventually see it my way.



Mithung said:


> Everything is about YOU. I did that, I did this, I didn't get selected. You look to blame everybody else but yourself.
> .
> .
> .
> ...


You think coming to Australia and having a local SIM will drastically change that? If you want something to work, you can make it work. You know that you can have a Skype number that resembles a local number? ALso, if I am to be blamed for not landing a job are you also to be blamed that you couldn't land a job in Australia yet?



Mithung said:


> Did it ever occur to you, that if they caught your lie, your resume could be blacklisted for ever?
> I am Mechanical engineer and the number of recruiters are far less than what you have in IT. So if your suggestion works in my case, it would be the same guy calling me over and over again for different jobs and I give an excuse everytime? He may be the only recruiter I am dealing with, but he must have dealt with thousands like me.
> 
> And in most job applications, we need to provide address also. So we provide fake address also? If we can fake so many things, why cant be just fake our whole resume?


They will blacklist you for saying you are looking for jobs from abroad? Do you have any proof of this ever happening to anyone? I doubt it. As usual, exaggeration for the benefit of winning an argument. How do I know for sure?, because I did apply for jobs remotely for a long time, got calls and seriously thought it would be better if I were physically present in Sydney. It wasn't.

Where are you planning to stay here in Australia? With a friend? Give them that address.



Mithung said:


> I am just wondering if you have worked or lived in India because I have never heard of any Simon Matthew making a noise about no medicare, no infrastructure, corruption, government policies etc in India. Why is that so?
> 
> I rest my case here. I see no reason to discuss with someone who thinks he is the only one who is right and the rest are fools, any further.


No, because I had it great in India ( I got a campus interview and let for abroad within a short time). If you had it bad in India, feel free to write about it. I'm not naive to assume that it was perfect for everyone in India.



Mithung said:


> Also, would your narrative be the same, had you secured a job in a week? Would then Australia be the most happening place on earth, the land that respects every migrant, the land that gives everything back to migrants, the land that everyone must migrate to, the land with zero corruption, the land with the best policies???


No, it will not be the same. I would be sitting writing on this thread saying that I wouldn't understand what they were talking about. 




I have no comment on the rest of your posts, because the attacks are just too personal and emotionally driven.


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> yeah and it's wise to stay in Dubai where he can get deported to Iraq on any given day because
> 
> 1- His sponsor feels like it
> 2- The government no longer wants to renew his visa without giving any reason, or citing the vague "security reasons" justification
> ...


If his iqama has been rejected because of those reasons, that will show up in his Police Clearance and security check at Australia and won't be given entry here to begin with.


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> because Australia is not Soviet Russia. The government can't and won't force an employee on an employer or make everyone work for the state.
> 
> They never deemed you fit to work, they deemed you skilled in a certain occupation. Big difference.
> 
> ...


You are not free to discriminate against me and shut me out of the job market citing impossible criteria. It is economic slavery, when they took my money and brought me here and then took more of my money while I searched for a job and turned a blind eye towards discrimination at the market place.


----------



## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> If his iqama has been rejected because of those reasons, that will show up in his Police Clearance and security check at Australia and won't be given entry here to begin with.


so why wait till that happens?! 

Very strange logic indeed. 

Plus, if his employment is terminated it won't show up on PCC


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> You are wrong, read his question for crying out loud before passing judgements. He mentioned if he's UNEMPLOYED. UNEMPLOYED means he won't be paying Medicare levy, let alone Medicare levy surcharge, so he doesn't have to take out PHF to avoid a surcharge that he won't be even paying since he's unemployed
> 
> Your income (single) needs to be $90K + or $180K+ if family (not sure about the exact figures but they are in that rough neighborhood). How can an unemployed person make $90K+ ?


You could have clarified that, but selectively chose not to. The LHS is something he needs to be aware of, regardless of his unemployment status.


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

SECURITY VETTING INFORMATION

The security vetting process involves, but is not limited to:
 Checks on places and dates of residence up to five years;
 National Criminal History check;
 Overseas Criminal History check;
 Intelligence holdings and associations;
 Check of digital footprint and social networking sites;
 Bankruptcy and insolvency checks;
 Check of overseas travel;
 Confirmation of identity and citizenship/Residency;
 Checks/enquiries with any other person, agency or organisation which may be able to contribute information relevant to the assessment of your suitability for the security clearance proposed.

^^ From NSW Police Website.


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> so why wait till that happens?!
> 
> Very strange logic indeed.
> 
> Plus, if his employment is terminated it won't show up on PCC


No, you said that his iqama could be terminated due to "vague" security issues. If his employment is terminated due to security issues, it will show up in immigration record. A PCC check almost certainly includes an immigration check.


----------



## tofy79 (Dec 27, 2013)

Simon Matthew said:


> No, you said that his iqama could be terminated due to "vague" security issues. If his employment is terminated due to security issues, it will show up in immigration record. A PCC check almost certainly includes an immigration check.


Hehehe, Really I am laughing..
Come on guys you took me very far a way,

I am very decent and polite person and I am such person like will never loose his job because of security reason of course , also as Simeon mentioned is true i am very open mind and familiar with and like other multicultural folks like of course Middle-east, Indian, Pakistanis, Pinoy lovely Kabayan  ,and etc... 

But what i meant that may i left my work because mt current employment make cost cut the for example fire 50 % of staff , in such case I don't have place to go, So, I will be misplaced.


----------



## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> No, you said that his iqama could be terminated due to "vague" security issues. If his employment is terminated due to security issues, it will show up in immigration record. A PCC check almost certainly includes an immigration check.


and by that I mean they do terminate people on that ground with no real security issue, then why wait till it does happen !!


----------



## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

tofy79 said:


> Hehehe, Really I am laughing..
> Come on guys you took me very far a way,
> 
> I am very decent and polite person and I am such person like will never loose his job because of security reason of course , also as Simeon mentioned is true i am very open mind and familiar with and like other multicultural folks like of course Middle-east, Indian, Pakistanis, Pinoy lovely Kabayan  ,and etc...
> ...


Hi Tofy

I meant that - and definitely you are well aware of that - that many people get their visas cancelled/refused on security grounds even if they are not security threats. e.g. all Syrian citizens can't get new residence visas in UAE at the moment for "security reasons"


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

tofy79 said:


> Hehehe, Really I am laughing..
> Come on guys you took me very far a way,
> 
> I am very decent and polite person and I am such person like will never loose his job because of security reason of course , also as Simeon mentioned is true i am very open mind and familiar with and like other multicultural folks like of course Middle-east, Indian, Pakistanis, Pinoy lovely Kabayan  ,and etc...
> ...


Be happy 
A smile a day can keep the doctor away 

Yeah, we are using you as our proxy for our war; a war of words, i.e.


----------



## tofy79 (Dec 27, 2013)

TheExpatriate said:


> Hi Tofy
> 
> I meant that - and definitely you are well aware of that - that many people get their visas cancelled/refused on security grounds even if they are not security threats. e.g. all Syrian citizens can't get new residence visas in UAE at the moment for "security reasons"



Basha 100% True


----------



## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

OK Simon

Australia is BS

GCC is God's paradise on earth

No one should move here, including an Iraqi in UAE who might be sent back to Iraq, because UAE is better for him and there is no risk he'd lose his UAE visa

and only you can be right

Happy?  


Seriously, if you can put some of that energy into your job search, you'd be better off by far ......


----------



## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

tofy79 said:


> Basha 100% True


that's what I am trying to explain to Simon. Staying in the GCC is dangerous for someone who can be sent back to their country that is currently in shambles ! No matter how lucrative GCC is, it's not a stable residency solution, unless you have access to a third country (residency/citizenship) where you can safely stay


----------



## tofy79 (Dec 27, 2013)

Simon Matthew said:


> Be happy
> A smile a day can keep the doctor away
> 
> Yeah, we are using you as our proxy for our war; a war of words, i.e.


Bhai, You'ur most welcome always


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> and by that I mean they do terminate people on that ground with no real security issue, then why wait till it does happen !!


So essentially, your advise is basically to:
- Since he is Iraqi, and since he may get his employment terminated for no reason(thereby rendering unemployable in the GCC), let him apply for PR.
- On top of that, it is irrelevant whether he is qualified to work in Australia or whether he will land a job in Australia in his preferred field (IT).
- This in turn implies that the PR system is being used to allow people to guarantee an entry in Australia during hard times, even if they won't be able to land a job of their liking.
- He can come in and take up ANY job, even though he is qualified to be an IT personnel. Even if it means that he takes away the job that less qualified locals DEPEND on for their living.
<*SNIP*>. It's my turn to now say "Wow".


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> OK Simon
> 
> Australia is BS
> 
> ...


With every insult you send my way, every passive aggressive statement, you are actually giving me more insight into the working of your mind and answers my questions about the local social perspective on migrants and expats.


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> Hi Tofy
> 
> I meant that - and definitely you are well aware of that - that many people get their visas cancelled/refused on security grounds even if they are not security threats. e.g. all Syrian citizens can't get new residence visas in UAE at the moment for "security reasons"


If GCC countries deem Syrians are a security threat, why shouldn't Australia? Wouldn't they know more than Australia?


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> that's what I am trying to explain to Simon. Staying in the GCC is dangerous for someone who can be sent back to their country that is currently in shambles ! No matter how lucrative GCC is, it's not a stable residency solution, unless you have access to a third country (residency/citizenship) where you can safely stay


Its clear. I already arrived at that conclusion myself. You are advocating a shortcut for a potential refugee. It's clear as daylight.

You can't pay for these kind of feedback. As I put more pressure on you, you seem to blurt out what I've already known.


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## tofy79 (Dec 27, 2013)

Simon Matthew said:


> So essentially, your advise is basically to:
> - Since he is Iraqi, and since he may get his employment terminated for no reason(thereby rendering unemployable in the GCC), let him apply for PR.
> - On top of that, it is irrelevant whether he is qualified to work in Australia or whether he will land a job in Australia in his preferred field (IT).
> - This in turn implies that the PR system is being used to allow people to guarantee an entry in Australia during hard times, even if they won't be able to land a job of their liking.
> ...


Thanks Again Dear Simon,

Let me ask you question here,

If the time come back to the past, do you will again apply for immigration to Australia or you will choose different place like Canada or New Zealand,

from respect the privacy of other i am telling you are free to answer me or no  as you like bhai...

One more, what your opinion about canada and New Zealand for IT domain for candidates who handling Experience like me and you?


----------



## Black_Rose (Nov 28, 2013)

From my observation if you are qualified enough you will get your professional job sooner or later in Australia or Europe or Canada/US. Lots of my known people doing their own profession job in Aussi and living a high standard life. to be very specific, specially Australia is for doctors and engineers. IT is now a days such a profession, it can be found here and there, by the road or end of the hole. it's widely available and even a bus driver can do a lot of IT. Overall, professional job depends on skills and in demand occupation. there's nothing to do with the australia or europe. If someone not getting their own profession job, it's the high time to go back school and educate yourself rather than blaming someone else's country.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> So essentially, your advise is basically to:
> - Since he is Iraqi, and since he may get his employment terminated for no reason(thereby rendering unemployable in the GCC), let him apply for PR.
> - On top of that, it is irrelevant whether he is qualified to work in Australia or whether he will land a job in Australia in his preferred field (IT).
> - This in turn implies that the PR system is being used to allow people to guarantee an entry in Australia during hard times, even if they won't be able to land a job of their liking.
> ...


<*SNIP*>

You want him to stay there, at risk of being returned to Iraq at any given point, versus come here and face his chances of a job.

If you can't find a job it does not mean everyone won't find a job. Wake up0 and smell the coffee.


----------



## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> With every insult you send my way, every passive aggressive statement, you are actually giving me more insight into the working of your mind and answers my questions about the local social perspective on migrants and expats.


Where did I insult you?

I haven't insulted you in all my replies and I even wished you well (and I still do) .... 

Your temporary inability to find a job is masking your judgement


----------



## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> Its clear. I already arrived at that conclusion myself. You are advocating a shortcut for a potential refugee. It's clear as daylight.
> 
> You can't pay for these kind of feedback. As I put more pressure on you, you seem to blurt out what I've already known.


Well if he can get a Skilled PR to avoid returning to Iraq, what is the problem with that? Shortcut for a refugee? LMAO !


----------



## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> If GCC countries deem Syrians are a security threat, why shouldn't Australia? Wouldn't they know more than Australia?


You obviously don't know nothing about the GCC


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> Well if he can get a Skilled PR to avoid returning to Iraq, what is the problem with that? Shortcut for a refugee? LMAO !


Essentially, you are saying, if his country is destroyed, he is refused entry to the GCC and every other country because he is deemed as a security risk and can't earn a living anymore and since he has to live an earning anyways; it doesn't matter how he earns it, and wants to live in an affluent community. That is the VERY definition of a refugee.


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

tofy79 said:


> Thanks Again Dear Simon,
> 
> Let me ask you question here,
> 
> ...


Hahahahaa... I stick by my statement. I wouldn't have resigned my job and instead used a 457 visa to get here.


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Black_Rose said:


> From my observation if you are qualified enough you will get your professional job sooner or later in Australia or Europe or Canada/US. Lots of my known people doing their own profession job in Aussi and living a high standard life. to be very specific, specially Australia is for doctors and engineers. IT is now a days such a profession, it can be found here and there, by the road or end of the hole. it's widely available and even a bus driver can do a lot of IT. Overall, professional job depends on skills and in demand occupation. there's nothing to do with the australia or europe. If someone not getting their own profession job, it's the high time to go back school and educate yourself rather than blaming someone else's country.


No, not all of them do. You didn't read my post clearly. Your question has been asked and answered a 100 times.


----------



## hari_it_ram (Jun 30, 2013)

TheExpatriate said:


> Well if he can get a Skilled PR to avoid returning to Iraq, what is the problem with that? Shortcut for a refugee? LMAO !


Bro,

It's better to stop replying to these guys rather than making them to understand the reality.


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> Where did I insult you?
> 
> I haven't insulted you in all my replies and I even wished you well (and I still do) ....
> 
> Your temporary inability to find a job is masking your judgement


Where did you wish me well? My judgment is that not everyone gets a job here that they desire. It's not as easy as some people make out to be. Employers are unreasonable with their "LOCAL experience" criteria and the economy of Australia is not as good as it used to be. The last I checked, you agreed with that judgment.


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> You obviously don't know nothing about the GCC


Educate me then. I'm here and like you keep reminding me, I'm unemployed so I have plenty of time. I'm ready to listen.


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

hari_it_ram said:


> Bro,
> 
> It's better to stop replying to these guys rather than making them to understand the reality.


 They are being judged by the readers and digging themselves deeper, thereby providing valuable insights into how their minds work.


----------



## tofy79 (Dec 27, 2013)

Simon Matthew said:


> Hahahahaa... I stick by my statement. I wouldn't have resigned my job and instead used a 457 visa to get here.


Simon sir, This not an answer to my questions!!!

I asked you clearly if the time come back to the point before you applied to AUS, do you will choose again Australia as immigration country?
and what about Canada and New Zealand?


----------



## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

Simon Matthew said:


> They are only part of the debate if my profile is CONSIDERED for the role I'm applying for. Moreover, it has already been assessed by the Australian assessment body. If I wasn't qualified, then I wouldn't have been granted the visa. Don't tell me why it isn't considered, tell me if it is FAIR?
> 
> When I'm denied the entry into a job market with an impossible criteria, I believe that it is a deliberate attempt having insidious intentions. I don't expect to get support from you, because in my opinion, a majority of expats don't want to help new arrivals, because:
> - Then you can't jack up your rates.
> - You couldn't care less.


<*SNIP*> I am not saying that you are not qualified. In fact, I believe that you are more than qualified to do the job. 

The problem is that there are 50 (and countless more) others who can do the same jobs as you. They are likely to be equally good, hardworking, and down to earth. You are NOT the only person who migrated. You are NOT the only job-seeker in Australia right now. 

And you don't get the 'local experience' thing. It is not an impossible criteria. Getting local experience is to simply make you more competitive than the other 50 people who applied for the same job. 

I happen to work in an industry that is less competitive than yours. It seems that your industry is competitive in terms of available and qualified job-seekers. So just buckle up and compete like any other individual (Australian-born or migrant) who wants to make a honest living.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

tofy79 said:


> Simon sir, This not an answer to my questions!!!
> 
> I asked you clearly if the time come back to the point before you applied to AUS, do you will choose again Australia as immigration country?
> and what about Canada and New Zealand?


OK I'll reply in detail in an hours' time. I've got to eat my dinner. I'm ravenous today, I don't know why. Hahaha :bounce:


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## tofy79 (Dec 27, 2013)

Simon Matthew said:


> OK I'll reply in detail in an hours' time. I've got to eat my dinner. I'm ravenous today, I don't know why. Hahaha :bounce:




Cool Bhai
Wish you tasty dinner


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> Where did you wish me well? My judgment is that not everyone gets a job here that they desire. It's not as easy as some people make out to be. Employers are unreasonable with their "LOCAL experience" criteria and the economy of Australia is not as good as it used to be. The last I checked, you agreed with that judgment.


I did wish you well in an earlier comment and I still do. Go back to earlier comments and you will find it.


----------



## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> Educate me then. I'm here and like you keep reminding me, I'm unemployed so I have plenty of time. I'm ready to listen.


GCC applies arbitrary measures and sometimes blanket bans on people without proper security checks .....


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## ibbz87 (Jun 30, 2016)

Simon Matthew said:


> (2) You are wrong again. You are obliged to take private insurance or pay an additional surcharge for Medicare. Read about Lifetime Health Cover and the rules about financial loading.
> 
> Department of Health | Lifetime Health Cover - Frequently Asked Questions


mate, which country doess not charge medical surcharhe?
uk is chaeging over 200gbp to migrants to use NHS as well as you pay 7-11% national insurance too on top of income tax.
nothing comes for free.


Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


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## ibbz87 (Jun 30, 2016)

Simon Matthew said:


> Yes, I am happy for them. I congratulated them on their success.
> 
> 
> No, it wont be. Because if they call me for an interview, I would have to come back and that would cost me even more money. If you really believe my rationalisations were rubbish, then so be it. Like I said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and feel free to add yours. Let the readers judge what is right and wrong.
> ...


Mate why dont you start someting on your own?
it is a sincere suggestion, i was rejected many times from british telecom ibm sky etc and then decided to give up and started my own small it support setup.
I am sure an intelligent person like you can do the same.
Be an entrepreneur.
It is brotherly advise and nothinf taunting.


Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

tofy79 said:


> Cool Bhai
> Wish you tasty dinner


My story to come to Australia was purely by chance. I was fed up of traveling or more precisely tired of my company sending me on business travel all over. I wanted a job where I could home to my family every night and at that time, my best friend convinced me to apply to Australia. I have a lot of relatives here too, there are not from my immediate family, but from extended family. That's the story. 

I know it can't quite possibly relate to your situation, but thats the truth.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

ibbz87 said:


> Mate why dont you start someting on your own?
> it is a sincere suggestion, i was rejected many times from british telecom ibm sky etc and then decided to give up and started my own small it support setup.
> I am sure an intelligent person like you can do the same.
> Be an entrepreneur.
> ...


Thanks brother. It is received with nothing but love and respect. Yes, all options are open at this time. Things have to change in the new year.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

dave85 said:


> <*SNIP*> I am not saying that you are not qualified. In fact, I believe that you are more than qualified to do the job.
> 
> The problem is that there are 50 (and countless more) others who can do the same jobs as you. They are likely to be equally good, hardworking, and down to earth. You are NOT the only person who migrated. You are NOT the only job-seeker in Australia right now.
> 
> ...


Like I said, the industry is over saturated and like I stated many times, I've been successful at interviews and were PROMISED offers, but didn't receive it due to reasons beyond my control. Everyone needs to be prepared for the worst of the worst, even the unthinkable. That's what my thread aims to convey.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

ibbz87 said:


> mate, which country doess not charge medical surcharhe?
> uk is chaeging over 200gbp to migrants to use NHS as well as you pay 7-11% national insurance too on top of income tax.
> nothing comes for free.
> 
> ...


I have to admit that at some point the discussions lost their focus.


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## ibbz87 (Jun 30, 2016)

Simon Matthew said:


> I have to admit that at some point the discussions lost their focus.


it has not but since you gave an emphasis on medicare levy so i came back with it.
even with medicare levi and all taxes etc, the taxes are lower as compared to UK canada germany etc.
and as an unemployed you dont have to pay medicare levy whereas say in uk you still need to pay 200gbp if you are migrant and that too in advance before you step on to the uk soil.

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


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## nolimit5005 (Apr 13, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> Like I said, the industry is over saturated and like I stated many times, I've been successful at interviews and were PROMISED offers, but didn't receive it due to reasons beyond my control. Everyone needs to be prepared for the worst of the worst, even the unthinkable. That's what my thread aims to convey.


What happened to you does not mean that it will happen to everyone. In fact, a few people I know found jobs in the IT industry three to four weeks from their arrival. That happened a few months ago. If you are unable to find a job, maybe be because you lack some skills. Not necessarily technical skills. Instead of wasting time trying to find a job in your field, why don't you search for a casual job; for example, a cashier, data entry, etc.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

ibbz87 said:


> it has not but since you gave an emphasis on medicare levy so i came back with it.
> even with medicare levi and all taxes etc, the taxes are lower as compared to UK canada germany etc.
> and as an unemployed you dont have to pay medicare levy whereas say in uk you still need to pay 200gbp if you are migrant and that too in advance before you step on to the uk soil.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


To be honest with you, that isn't/wasn't the attractive factor for me to migrate so I've never given it much thought. The idea is to find something that that could keep me busy & fulfilling, bring me home to my family every night and contribute towards the society. I'm big on social/charity work.


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## ibbz87 (Jun 30, 2016)

Simon Matthew said:


> To be honest with you, that isn't/wasn't the attractive factor for me to migrate so I've never given it much thought. The idea is to find something that that could keep me busy & fulfilling, bring me home to my family every night and contribute towards the society. I'm big on social/charity work.


any thoughts on finding something casual while job hunting.
That would surly help you to not splash all the savings that you have

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

ibbz87 said:


> any thoughts on finding something casual while job hunting.
> That would surly help you to not splash all the savings that you have
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


I have few more items on my bucket list that I need to check off of and then to other plans. The problem is that they set dates for interviews, then I have to sit and prepare for them. Between preparing between interviews and my IT certification and applying for jobs, I don't have anytime. It's not an exaggeration. Don't want the universe to b*tch because I don't have the certifications.  LOL


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## JohnEE (Aug 5, 2016)

ibbz87 said:


> it has not but since you gave an emphasis on medicare levy so i came back with it.
> even with medicare levi and all taxes etc, the taxes are lower as compared to UK canada germany etc.
> and as an unemployed you dont have to pay medicare levy whereas say in uk you still need to pay 200gbp if you are migrant and that too in advance before you step on to the uk soil.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


Comparing the UK with Australia is difficult because the immigration systems are so different. In the UK for instance the £200 per year surcharge you are referring to only applies to temporary residents (i.e people on time limited visas like the Tier 2 visa - similar to the subclass 457 in OZ) and not people with PR. If you have PR you get pretty much all the benefits a citizen has from minute 1, but then again it is not really possible to self sponsor PR status at all in the UK as you need to have lived in the UK for 5 years before you get PR granted so the comparison is not really fair. In OZ if you are on a time limited visa like the 457 I think you are not entitled to free routine medical care at all and would thus need to get your own insurance.


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## ibbz87 (Jun 30, 2016)

JohnEE said:


> Comparing the UK with Australia is difficult because the immigration systems are so different. In the UK for instance the £200 per year surcharge you are referring to only applies to temporary residents (i.e people on time limited visas like the Tier 2 visa - similar to the subclass 457 in OZ) and not people with PR. If you have PR you get pretty much all the benefits a citizen has from minute 1, but then again it is not really possible to self sponsor PR status at all in the UK as you need to have lived in the UK for 5 years before you get PR granted so the comparison is not really fair. In OZ if you are on a time limited visa like the 457 I think you are not entitled to free routine medical care at all and would thus need to get your own insurance.


yes i am aware of all this but yet compare the rotal taxes that one has to pay to get that.
you would notice that in oz you have to pay lesser and everyone who have lived in the uk knows how messed up the NHS is whereas australian and canadian health system is way superior

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


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## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

Simon Matthew said:


> Like I said, the industry is over saturated and like I stated many times, I've been successful at interviews and were PROMISED offers, but didn't receive it due to reasons beyond my control. Everyone needs to be prepared for the worst of the worst, even the unthinkable. That's what my thread aims to convey.


Do you actually trust the interviewers when they say "successful" and "promised offers"? :der: I do not consider any interview to be successful until I receive an actual offer (with all the proper documentation). Anything else is just fluff. 

While your intentions are good, your industry is saturated with qualified individuals (such as yourself). Most occupations are like that as well. Even in my "less competitive" industry, I still have to compete with 5 to 10 others. Please tell me an occupation and a developed nation that has only 1 (or 2) person applying for that job opening only. Your description of the job market is not unique to Australia and it is mostly the same in any developed nation. 

Also, the funny thing is that your title (and some of your "advice") is to dissuade migrants about Australia while you are still physically here looking for jobs.... Trying to reduce the competition?


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

dave85 said:


> Do you actually trust the interviewers when they say "successful" and "promised offers"? :der: I do not consider any interview to be successful until I receive an actual offer (with all the proper documentation). Anything else is just fluff.


Again, you are missing the point. The aim is to inform that aspiring employees that a rejection doesn't necessarily mean that it's ALWAYS the candidates fault. I, through my networking, have gotten to know some of the reasons for the rejection (and have shared it here) and they were, what we call factors beyond our control.



dave85 said:


> While your intentions are good, your industry is saturated with qualified individuals (such as yourself). Most occupations are like that as well. Even in my "less competitive" industry, I still have to compete with 5 to 10 others. Please tell me an occupation and a developed nation that has only 1 (or 2) person applying for that job opening only. Your description of the job market is not unique to Australia and it is mostly the same in any developed nation.


Again, yes there are a lot of people who were able to find jobs for the same roles I was applying for with much less (A LOT less) effort, but not this year. The reason why it is so, is outlined in the first post of this thread. Kindly go through the post with an open mind. It will be difficult for you to understand, if you cannot relate to the post.



dave85 said:


> Also, the funny thing is that your title (and some of your "advice") is to dissuade migrants about Australia while you are still physically here looking for jobs.... Trying to reduce the competition?


Sometimes on this forum I feel like you are all Harry Potters and trying to destroy, what you think is Voldemort and his Horocruxes ( little pieces of his soul). This is a good point that you brought up and also one of the oldest strategies in the book. Destroy the reputation of the accuser and spray reasonable doubt and then everything he says or does will be viewed with suspicion. 

In fact, if you did read my thread carefully, I have:
- NEVER asked anyone to STOP applying for jobs. I gave them strategies to minimize their draining of savings while looking for jobs here in Australia.
- NEVER asked those who were here to go back. Like I said, I would never follow advise that I couldn't follow.
- There are a lot of aspiring migrants that do not know the ground situation here in Australia. I have always backed up my claims with links from the local news here. I didn't invent them.

Of course, my goal is to put these facts out in the open for everyone to judge for themselves. No good deed should go unpunished, right?




dave85 said:


> Also, the funny thing


I assure you, there is nothing funny about this thread. It's dead serious.


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## OctNovDec (Oct 20, 2016)

:behindsofa: This thread is just going around in circles. 

Somebody for the love of Australia, please close this thread already! :ballchain:


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## hari_it_ram (Jun 30, 2013)

Simon Matthew said:


> Again, you are missing the point. The aim is to inform that aspiring employees that a rejection doesn't necessarily mean that it's ALWAYS the candidates fault. I, through my networking, have gotten to know some of the reasons for the rejection (and have shared it here) and they were, what we call factors beyond our control.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I seriously think that you created this thread to demonstrate your rich English capabilities. So far so good mate This would have been more useful when I was struggling to clear PTE. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Please excuse typos.


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## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

Simon Matthew said:


> Again, you are missing the point. The aim is to inform that aspiring employees that a rejection doesn't necessarily mean that it's ALWAYS the candidates fault. I, through my networking, have gotten to know some of the reasons for the rejection (and have shared it here) and they were, what we call factors beyond our control.


You did not get the job. Someone else did. They were deemed to be much more suitable than you, so they got the final offer. 

This is something called "LIFE". A rejection is just that - someone else was more competitive than you and he/she got the job you had applied for. This is something almost every one of us experience in our daily lives. Why do you even need to assign "fault" in the first place?



Simon Matthew said:


> Again, yes there are a lot of people who were able to find jobs for the same roles I was applying for with much less (A LOT less) effort, but not this year. The reason why it is so, is outlined in the first post of this thread. Kindly go through the post with an open mind. It will be difficult for you to understand, if you cannot relate to the post.


Yes, I did read your initial post with an "open mind". And I am telling you this: If you are not suitable for the particular job you are applying for, you are not suitable, period. Someone else was more suitable than you. And maybe they got lucky to put in "less effort" than you. Bottom line is that those people were more competitive (and lucky) for the job and you were not. 

And take note of Canberra. Your reasoning about Canberra is nonsensical. Every country in the world has the right to implement its own security clearance criteria. Being a citizen is typically the norm because these jobs often deal with sensitive information (or at least information relevant to Australia's interests). If you want to work in a government-related business, be a citizen. How hard is it to understand that logic?

And mind you, Canberra is not a fortress where only government jobs are available. There are countless others who work in non-government companies which do not require any security clearance. 



Simon Matthew said:


> Sometimes on this forum I feel like you are all Harry Potters and trying to destroy, what you think is Voldemort and his Horocruxes ( little pieces of his soul). This is a good point that you brought up and also one of the oldest strategies in the book. Destroy the reputation of the accuser and spray reasonable doubt and then everything he says or does will be viewed with suspicion.
> 
> In fact, if you did read my thread carefully, I have:
> - NEVER asked anyone to STOP applying for jobs. I gave them strategies to minimize their draining of savings while looking for jobs here in Australia.
> ...


Now now, you are entering into some fantasy speech. This is a forum. You are not that important for people here to play a game of accusation with you. 

I hope that you do not bring this attitude to your job search. 



Simon Matthew said:


> I assure you, there is nothing funny about this thread. It's dead serious.


Yes, I am dead serious when I tell you that life is like that. Somebody else got the job you wanted. That's it, nothing more, nothing less. Somebody else is much more competitive (with a degree of luck) than you.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

dave85 said:


> You did not get the job. Someone else did. They were deemed to be much more suitable than you, so they got the final offer.
> 
> This is something called "LIFE". A rejection is just that - someone else was more competitive than you and he/she got the job you had applied for. This is something almost every one of us experience in our daily lives. Why do you even need to assign "fault" in the first place?


First of all, you can't relate with my situation because you never had to face what I had to face. When the Russian lady told me about her experiences in South Africa, I can sympathize to an extent; but I'll never be able to relate to her, because I don't identify as a Russian lady (I hope I never have to identify as a lady, lol,  ; please no offence to anyone from the LGBTQITS community, it was merely a joke). There are other genres here too: People looking for life continuity and People who are looking to be rid of discriminated against by their own. I don't fit into any of their genres. As such, I can't identify with them.

First of all, I'm not going to sit quietly while I hand my money (not to mention the time and energy I invested in obtaining the PR) and be told that I can't enter the job market because I don't have local experience. I'm applying to be obtain local experience! This is what I call a deadlock situation. Moreover, not all jobs are being filled. Here, a lot of companies AFTER THEY INTERVIEW THE CANDIDATE, decide to put the job on hold OR CHANGE THE JOB DESCRIPTION OF THE ROLE. That is not, if you are ever lucky to make it to the front of their desk (citing lack of Local Experience).




dave85 said:


> Yes, I did read your initial post with an "open mind". And I am telling you this: If you are not suitable for the particular job you are applying for, you are not suitable, period. Someone else was more suitable than you. And maybe they got lucky to put in "less effort" than you. Bottom line is that those people were more competitive (and lucky) for the job and you were not.


No, you didn't read it with an open mind. If you did you wouldn't be asking all these questions. No, I'm not less competitive than others and in most cases I would be more qualified than a "local" resource. I disagree with you 1000%.



dave85 said:


> And take note of Canberra. Your reasoning about Canberra is nonsensical. Every country in the world has the right to implement its own security clearance criteria. Being a citizen is typically the norm because these jobs often deal with sensitive information (or at least information relevant to Australia's interests). If you want to work in a government-related business, be a citizen. How hard is it to understand that logic?
> 
> And mind you, Canberra is not a fortress where only government jobs are available. There are countless others who work in non-government companies which do not require any security clearance.


First, I was making my target audience aware (newly arriving citizens) of this unfair situation. For instance, in New Zealand, you can obtain a security clearance if you are a citizen of Australia, Canada, NZ, the United Kingdom (UK) or the United States of America (USA). Of course there are various levels, but it will get you into the work place. In Australia, you can't. You are completely shut out! I call that DISCRIMINATION. Plus, I wouldn't have brought it up, if I wasn't shut out of the job market in the first place citing local experience. Mind you, I'm also shut out off the lucrative "80% network ONLY" job market. It is UNFAIR. Period.

Citizenship & Security | Defence Careers
Getting Australian Security Clearances - How to Find a Job - Job Seekers - MACRO Specialist Recruitment

Look at the second link, and scroll down to the bottom where a UK expatriate talks about this experience in Australia:
"Interesting reading. I came from the UK to Australia with a UK Secret clearance and a skilled migration visa (formerly being Principal Engineer for flight trials on an Air to Air missile system) only to find I can't be security cleared here as I'm not yet a citizen. 

18 months later of twiddling my thumbs unable to be employed in defence, and unable to be employed in any other area for 'fill in' jobs like supermarket shelfstacking due to the now typically Australian 'no experience' card constantly being waved at me, I am bemused to read that once I get my citizenship (that is, if I can financially afford to wait around for another 6 months), the history is read from my UK security clearance anywyay! How hypocritical of the Australian vetting agencies. If this is the case - what difference does citizenship make?

Frustrated and angry at this pathetic situation,
Rob Greaves."

Doesnt his experience and my experience in day to day life count? That post was in 2009! And no, I'm not Rob Greaves and I didn't write that post. 



dave85 said:


> Now now, you are entering into some fantasy speech. This is a forum. You are not that important for people here to play a game of accusation with you.
> 
> I hope that you do not bring this attitude to your job search.


Too personal, hence skipping.



dave85 said:


> Yes, I am dead serious when I tell you that life is like that. Somebody else got the job you wanted. That's it, nothing more, nothing less. Somebody else is much more competitive (with a degree of luck) than you.


They should have had more of you during the Apartheid era in South Africa. So accepting.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

hari_it_ram said:


> I seriously think that you created this thread to demonstrate your rich English capabilities. So far so good mate This would have been more useful when I was struggling to clear PTE.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Please excuse typos.


Thank you. My IELTS aggregate was 8.5. Here were my individual scores:

Reading - 8.5 ( To this day, I don't know how I lost that one mark)
Writing - 8
Speaking - 8
Listening - 9


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

OctNovDec said:


> :behindsofa: This thread is just going around in circles.
> 
> Somebody for the love of Australia, please close this thread already! :ballchain:


Yes, I agree. But don't you see that every person who has something to say is of a different psychological profile? Some posts against me are exaggerated beyond sanity. Especially the ones about discrimination. 

Let me give you my most recent experience. I was at Wentworthville station TODAY and I used the restroom opposite the station. In the first closed restroom in there, there was this message printed: "ALL THESE BLOODY BLACK INDIANS MAKE MY BODY SICK". Now, I wasn't upset or shocked by it; . 
<*SNIP*> *Rule 2: http://www.expatforum.com/expats/general-expat-discussions/2397-forum-rules.html kaju/moderator*

However, when I write about discrimination here, everyone rushes to criticize and silence me citing that discrimination does not exist! Here is one word I thought I would never have to use: Flabbergasted. Flabbergasted at thought that they would rather silence me than accept facts. FLABBERGASTED.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Simon Matthew said:


> Thank you. My IELTS aggregate was 8.5. Here were my individual scores:
> 
> Reading - 8.5 ( To this day, I don't know how I lost that one mark)
> Writing - 8
> ...


Oh, by the way, I forgot to add that 99% of the credit goes to the automatic spell check on my browser; without which none of these posts would make any sense!


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## cyberkidpk (Sep 9, 2013)

WOWWW

I did read this thread at the start and since then it has truly evolved or should I say exploded.

All of the views including Simons are right under their own circumstances.

Certainly there is no fair competition when it comes to new migrants, lack of "Local Experience" is usually the go-to reason by recruiters. A little background, I am a "skilled" migrant with 8 plus years in O&G plants as EI&C engineer and already worked in 4 countries prior to my permanent move to Australia.

Now, I tried applying for jobs which are directly by employers without any recruiters in between. I got really close to bag a 120k+ job where I cleared 2 panels interviews, had my site tour to get me familiarize with the plant, psychometric test and even reference checks. Then came the shock of rejection that they decided to go for GORA .

Then I changed my attitude, I dumb down my resume, applied for junior roles, and soon started working as a field tech , left as it was too much of travel with significant less money. I then started my role as level 1 IT support(a soul crushing job  ) enough to pay the bills.

Note that both jobs are through my contacts who referred me. There's an internal referral system in every company where they ask their existing employees to apply internally or submit a friends resume. if successful, the employee who refereed gets paid .


Before that I went to the government''s department of human services/employment and 
gave them a piece of my mind. Demanding basis for SOL calculation, did get a big bunch of numbers/charts from Engineers Australia. The department then agreed to interview me which was recorded and I expressed my deep concern over the practices of local recruiters. I asked for recognition of employers who hired skilled immigrants by state or federal government. As for the CULTURAL FIT, proposed a 2 week program, where they TEACH us the culture of an Australian Office etc

But mind it, Australians are lazy and the government is basically trying to help us but they are very proper (they try to save the bottoms) so they will weigh in every suggestion, do their research blah blah and hopefully in the next 50 years , come up with something along the lines I have suggested

The government needs migrant money for the economy to flourish. A migrant rents/buy a place to live, spends heavily in setting their place of residence (furniture, white goods, curtains etc) and then spends for the groceries, utility bills etc. Most of the money is what he/she BRINGS into Australia not earns here.

Being said that, the economy is not doing so well specially in SA, NT & WA. The mining boom is over and is going to be a case study for Business Schools of WHAT NOT TO DO in a resource boom 

Now I can go on and on about the short comings of the system however, focus I tend to focus on solutions to the issue. So here are some tips

Australians are also getting old. Just go through any mall, banks or government department, if you see a Caucasian , its likely they are in their 50's. The state government has already implemented measures to integrate color skin migrants into their offices so they actually prefer people from diverse background. Apply for your respective state jobs !!!

Most of the old migrants who are citizen now are <*SNIP*>, avoid them like plague. They came here "Legally" and worked their way up. Most of them you see quite active in your respective community meetings . They are full of legal loopholes which will get you into trouble as they can also report you if things go south. Just go through the 7-11 cases and currently Caltex scandal. The Indian/pakistanis pump owners do pay them the LEGAL rates and then poor student gotta return a portion back to the employers in a plain envlope. Its funny how we always find a way 

Volunteer in council, each local council has many events, awesome way to make contacts.


On a lighter note, Sue Coles/Woolies for some stupid reason for easy cash 


Australia is an expensive country, however hourly rates are also enough to match the living expenses. Remember theres also an opportunity cost. If you wanna dip into your savings just because you want to focus on your job search , it fine. 

A proper field job will fetch 120k to 150k easily , thats what my friends are earning and are bit*hing about the 40k tax they give to Aussie dole bludgers.

So enjoy the stay here, its a unique experience , but its worth it. You will not get a job in your own field however there are so many possibilities.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

The logic is simple. If there is a demand, the system will suck you up, no matter who or what you are. If there is no demand, you would be sitting on the sidelines waiting for someone to throw you a bone. And right now, the system is saturated.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

cyberkidpk said:


> WOWWW
> 
> I did read this thread at the start and since then it has truly evolved or should I say exploded.
> 
> ...


Taking notes from your awesome post! I would marry you NOW if I could, but since we don't know each other and since this is our first meeting, here is a KISS. MWAH! Hahahaa. 

Thanks again from the bottom of my heart, for taking the time and having the courage to share your experiences.


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## OctNovDec (Oct 20, 2016)

Simon Matthew said:


> You are not free to discriminate against me and shut me out of the job market citing impossible criteria. It is economic slavery, when they took my money and brought me here and then took more of my money while I searched for a job and turned a blind eye towards discrimination at the market place.


Simon, in the beginning, it looked like you were voicing concerns, but the more you talk, the more deluded you sound. Who was that entity that *BROUGHT* you here? Did you come on an asylum seeker visa? Did an NGO sponsor your trip? 

The other problem is how you're sick of their evaluation system of awarding points. Well, the PR is virtually citizenship, and they are well aware that 99.8% people who are taking up their PRs will stay the course and get the citizenship. Australia at no point in time of the 189 visa claimed that they are granting these visa from the goodness of their hearts. The whole point system makes it plain and clear that they want worthy citizens, and not just blue collar immigrants. The exorbitant visa fee that you keep harping about, well, Saudi Arabia changed their visa pricing recently. A multiple-entry 2 year visa now costs 8000 SAR which is just AU$600 short of the Australia PR price. Plus, you don't get any discounts for adding dependents. So for my family of 4, I will be paying 32,000 SAR. This is more than the cost of the PR for my family and the validation trip cost combined. So, the word PERMANENT in the visa makes it worth the prices especially considering the benefits that Australia offers in terms of free medical and education. 

Thirdly, if you're sick of the system then fudging sue it for crying out loud. You seem to have all the time in the world narrating every experience of your day including your visits to the loo. Use that time in finding a lawyer who will take up your case pro bono. Sue this injustice, get your reimbursement and do whatever the roo you want with the money.

Finally, Australia is not as bad as you're painting it, plain and simple. Most of us have friends and family in Aus, one of my friends lives in Brisbane, Queensland. The senator of that state is Pauline Hanson, one of those far-right bigots. Even a resident of Brisbane did not approve of your statements. She always told me the problems will be with moving to a new country, first 6-8 months will be extremely tough even if you have a well paying job. Furthermore, none of us here need anyone to tell us how difficult it is find a job. Unemployment simply sucks. It is the fear of being unemployed that keeps people stuck with their jobs even if they are working under despotic bosses. 

You think that we think that Aus is heaven, WE DON'T!
You think that we think that stepping in Aus is all that is needed to get a job, WE DON'T!
You think that we think that Aus govt is guaranteeing jobs by issuing PRs, WE DON'T!
You think that we think that life is a bed of roses, WE DON'T!
You think that we think that you are deluded, WE DO!

Australia is not a superpower, but in spite of that, ranks very highly in places that matter such HDI (Human Development Index), happiness index, medicare, education, and standard of living to name a few, and stands miles ahead of even US and UK in these rankings. The only competition Australia has in these fields are Scandinavia and Canada.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

OctNovDec said:


> Simon, in the beginning, it looked like you were voicing concerns, but the more you talk, the more deluded you sound.


Nope, I'm challenging the notion that a PR means we are obliged not to complain. That's not true. That is evident by cyberkidpk's post. I will be following up on those action points.

Guys, keep the posts coming. I'll be away for a week, but will be back on Christmas eve to reply to your posts. I'm going away to spend time with my extended family. I promise you that the thread will not be forgotten and as soon as I come back , I will reply to all posts that have been posted in my absence. Let's keep the fire burning!


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

just finished reading all the posts, it was a rollercoaster and a mystery unsolved.

I am not good in arguments/debates, hence I will not attempt that. I lack writing skills to express myself in the best way but still I will try...

the thread started well on discussion point, later it turned into a debate, a heated one later, lot many posts have been snipped or deleted for reasons best known to those who were able to see the actual content, after that the thread seems temporarily hacked by queries on healthcare and guy from Iraq.

what I infer is that everyone has a different story and experience with life or Australia(point of diiscussion here). OP has shared his journey. As a reader I will try to use the experience before making a permanent move, my friends share both sides of story, some got lucky soon, some had to struggle more, some are struggling till now. I will have to plan something and see if it works. I dont know when I will get success in this migration journey but I am taking lessons from everyone's journey. some members stopped commenting as they might have thought it is not worth it. 

it is true that no one is promising a garland on arrival and I have to keep this in mind while making the move.


I wish good luck to OP, may you succeed in getting a job and making some reforms for new immigrants, though it seems a tough to achieve thing(reforms for immigrants).

to the guy from Iraq- I pray the world becomes a better place ( toughest dream)

PS: my comment is not in favor/against of anyone, I am just taking a lesson from this thread


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## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

Simon Matthew said:


> First of all, you can't relate with my situation because you never had to face what I had to face. When the Russian lady told me about her experiences in South Africa, I can sympathize to an extent; but I'll never be able to relate to her, because I don't identify as a Russian lady (I hope I never have to identify as a lady, lol,  ; please no offence to anyone from the LGBTQITS community, it was merely a joke). There are other genres here too: People looking for life continuity and People who are looking to be rid of discriminated against by their own. I don't fit into any of their genres. As such, I can't identify with them.
> 
> First of all, I'm not going to sit quietly while I hand my money (not to mention the time and energy I invested in obtaining the PR) and be told that I can't enter the job market because I don't have local experience. I'm applying to be obtain local experience! This is what I call a deadlock situation. Moreover, not all jobs are being filled. Here, a lot of companies AFTER THEY INTERVIEW THE CANDIDATE, decide to put the job on hold OR CHANGE THE JOB DESCRIPTION OF THE ROLE. That is not, if you are ever lucky to make it to the front of their desk (citing lack of Local Experience).
> 
> ...


Well then, to add your examples of day-to-day life experience, I am of Asian descent, migrated, settled in Canberra right at the point of arrival, and started a permanent job in Canberra after 2.5 months of searching when I am in Canberra. I had no problems finding employment in Canberra. So, please add some joy to your list of bad stories and examples.

And congrats on being "being more qualified than a local resource". I hope that you are also "more qualified" than a migrant resource who have good qualifications and a down-to-earth attitude. Because you are not just competing with the Australians. You are competing with other migrants as well. Certainly, you can't have that much self-belief to look down on all of them. 

Your destiny is up to you. Many migrants work from the bottom up and learn to start somewhere (or anywhere). But if you insist that interviewers/companies discriminate you, then I don't understand why you still continue to be in Australia. Sounds like a rather bad deal when you pay thousands of $$$ and get this load of crap. Cutting your loses is an option, isn't it?


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/201...flow-systemic-rorting-australias-visa-system/

Guys please go through this comprehensive article. It seems to be driving simon's points home.

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## hari_it_ram (Jun 30, 2013)

Good job. You will like all his post and support Simon`s view until you get your grant. Hope you will stand by the same view as Simon, post your grant. Rudiculous. I dint get my grant yet, so lets share about threatening things about PR and console myself by thinking "getting PR might be a wrong decision".



gonnabeexpat said:


> Immigration overflow: the systemic rorting of Australia's visa system - MacroBusiness
> 
> Guys please go through this comprehensive article. It seems to be driving simon's points home.
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

hari_it_ram said:


> Good job. You will like all his post and support Simon`s view until you get your grant. Hope you will stand by the same view as Simon, post your grant. Rudiculous. I dint get my grant yet, so lets share about threatening things about PR and console myself by thinking "getting PR might be a wrong decision".


Lol talk about being in denial. I am not trying to rationalize or take sides. Its pretty much clear that au govmt is taking in more people inorder to boost their economy as their income from othdr sources are dwindling. 

If this makes you feel insecure then thats your problem. All iam trying to say is as an immigrant please have a contigency incase you are not able to land a job , also many people wouldnt like to flip burgers after working in big it companies back in india. That's just rediculous.

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## hari_it_ram (Jun 30, 2013)

So far how many flip burgers in Aus after working in big IT comp in India? Do you really have any data or just throw something and feel no one will question? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Please excuse typos.


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

hari_it_ram said:


> So far how many flip burgers in Aus after working in big IT comp in India? Do you really have any data or just throw something and feel no one will question?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Please excuse typos.


Well, many people in this thread in other forums were talking about how immigrants shoukd take low skilled jobs till they get a job that suite their skills.

I personally know someone who immigrated to au under ict ba job code. Its been nearly 6 months and she is yet to land a job, she has around 5 + years of experience in the it job field, when i asked her why she hasnt taken up some low skilled job to support herself, she said she didnt like how she would be treated if she worked in such a job. 

Immigrants face stiff competition against overseas students, au graduates and shoukd not expect things to be easy.

And also if you are working in a niche technology then it would be quite easy for you to get a job. I know a friend of mine who immigrated under 189 got a contract job in just a months time he specialized in bdd, cucumber, appium with core Java. 

In this thread i witnessed a lot of people getting defensive when ones view points were not accepted. this is sad and immature. Instead of resorting to personal attacks and name calling one should look at both sides of the story and make a informed decision. 

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

Here is Another anectode from my friend


> Hi
> My hubby secured the .net technical architect position within one week of time
> 
> Initially they said it is a contract position and now they are asking him to continue as permanent employee by looking at his performance
> ...


Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## hari_it_ram (Jun 30, 2013)

gonnabeexpat said:


> Well, many people in this ghread in other firums were talking about how immogrants shoukd tske low skilled jobs till thry get a job thst suite their skills.
> 
> I personally know domeone who immigrated to au under ict ba job code. Its been nearly 6 months and she is yet to land a job, she has atoumd 5 + years of experience in the it job field, when i asjed her why she hasnt taken up some low skilled job to support herself, she said she didnt like how she would be treated if she worked on such a job.
> 
> ...



You mean to say Immigrates will have tuff time in Aus to get a job whereas others will have a calk walk to fetch one? Competition is every where not just in Aus. Just because one of your friend failed to get a job does not mean others will flip burgers. 

You talking abt immature? Really? I know how "matured" you are post your visa lodge. Posts like "hurt, false hope, bad day" from your end for just 2 months wait shows how matured you are. 

Don't show off your frustration by sharing these kind of creepy things. DIBP never asked to do immigrate, it's you who want to do and applied for, not the other way around. I really hope people like should get grant very soon, else forum like this will witness more and more negativity about PR and Aus. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Please excuse typos.


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

hari_it_ram said:


> You mean to say Immigrates will have tuff time in Aus to get a job whereas others will have a calk walk to fetch one? Competition is every where not just in Aus. Just because one of your friend failed to get a job does not mean others will flip burgers.
> 
> You talking abt immature? Really? I know how "matured" you are post your visa lodge. Posts like "hurt, false hope, bad day" from your end for just 2 months wait shows how matured you are.
> 
> ...


Wow talk about getting offended. I do ***** about not getting a decision in the other thread on a daily basis but thats more of a emotional out burst than anything. The purpose of that thread is entirely different and this is entirely different.

See people like you cannot accept the fact that things are not easy as they may seem and there may come a time , god forbid, where i may be forced to come back to India because I was not able to land a job as I have ran out of cash. But the other scenario being I get a job and getting settled down their relatively soon. But this is a risk which I chose to take and I am OK to face the consequences if things go south. 

I am not saying all these out of frustration if not getting a decision. I may not even get the grant . But that does not change anything I have said.

In the article which I posted here , its clearly stated that assessment organizations like ACS, CPA are lobbying against the streamlining of PR visa procedure as a result the au govmnt is taking in more people without taking into consideration of the amount of jobs available for us. Don't you think immigration levels should be more in line with job demand rather than anything else ?. 





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## hari_it_ram (Jun 30, 2013)

As per 1st paragraph, you accepted that you showed off your emotions by posting daily on this forum. That's what I am saying here, you show your disappointment and frustration by sharing these articles. 

Your second paragraph shows as if your the only one who face these issues and rest are given red carpet. 

As per last para,

All the levels are there in place already, it's just common sense to understand that's the reason they dint call out 60pointers yet for 2613. If there is no levels or checkpoint followed by DIBP, then all will get invite the moment they apply EOI. 

I think you are totally disappointed for not getting grant. May be a time off from forum will give more clarify. After doing all the hard work don't spoil your dream by reading one or two article like this. Reach Aus, face the competition and then take the call. Don't over prepare and spoil the party. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Please excuse typos.


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

hari_it_ram said:


> As per 1st paragraph, you accepted that you showed off your emotions by posting daily on this forum. That's what I am saying here, you show your disappointment and frustration by sharing these articles.
> 
> Your second paragraph shows as if your the only one who face these issues and rest are given red carpet.
> 
> ...


If reading something that doesn't agree with your viewpoints or beliefs is disappointing then I am pretty sure you will not be able to understand the reality that surrounds you entirely. 

In my previous posts I have given two anectodal evidence of my two friends who got jobs almost immediately and are now well settled. If my only motive is to dash people's hope due to frustration of not getting a decision then i would not have bothered posting those. 

Not only those two, but many people I know who immigrated under sub class 189 have got jobs and some have come back because they were not able to get one. 

My request to you would be is, people need to talk about both positives and negatives only then we will be able to become aware of ground reality. 

It doesn't matter whether my application gets rejected or accepted but I do wish all those applied get pr and get settled son in au with a job that they are happy with. 

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

Also about those levels, since this is pro rated the 60 pointers will get invited eventually after Dibp clears existing backlog right ?

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## hari_it_ram (Jun 30, 2013)

Good luck, keep looking abt all the negative points and articles. Never mind to promote here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Please excuse typos.


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## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

gonnabeexpat said:


> Immigration overflow: the systemic rorting of Australia's visa system - MacroBusiness
> 
> Guys please go through this comprehensive article. It seems to be driving simon's points home.
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


I don't actually see how the article is driving Simon's points. This article is advocating a much tighter grip on immigration (i.e., the skilled permanent visas, not just the 457). 

"... dramatically reducing Australia’s permanent immigration program to the sensible and sustainable level of 70,000 people per year."

That will mean that a lot of people in this forum will probably never get the chance to migrate to Australia. 

That aside, the issues about 457 visas are mostly around IT (and construction) professionals. Unfortunately, there is little way around the 457, probably due to the political pressure from big businesses and assessing bodies (e.g., ACS). 

The more obvious solution is to remove some (or even all) of the IT-related occupations on the Skilled Occupation Lists. I think most people in this forum will slam you for that thought. 

Many of us (including yourself I suppose) make the choice to migrate to Australia. There is no guarantee for success, and we are all just trying to make the best that we can. It is difficult, no doubt about that. But we all have a glimmer of hope that we will succeed. A key element for successful migration is hope. 

Without hope, it makes it really difficult to uproot oneself (and/or the family) to come to Australia and to persevere on. Simon is destroying this hope in other people, while still trying to hold the hope for himself. That is selfish and a great disservice for honest/down-to-earth migrants who just want the opportunity to come to Australia - people such as yourself.


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

dave85 said:


> I don't actually see how the article is driving Simon's points. This article is advocating a much tighter grip on immigration (i.e., the skilled permanent visas, not just the 457).
> 
> "... dramatically reducing Australia’s permanent immigration program to the sensible and sustainable level of 70,000 people per year."
> 
> ...


The last part does not make any sort of sense to me. No one is destroying anything. Did you even read any of my posts above? i have given anecdotal evidence of people i know who got jobs within a week or a month of landing in AU and you are telling me that i am destroying hopes of people while i am one among them? . 

You can hope all you want and if you stop doing that then it is your fault. People persevere against all odds and only those people who do persevere come up in life great. I just presented a different side of things and you guys are going all up in arms and in denial mode.


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## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

gonnabeexpat said:


> The last part does not make any sort of sense to me. No one is destroying anything. Did you even read any of my posts above? i have given anecdotal evidence of people i know who got jobs within a week or a month of landing in AU and you are telling me that i am destroying hopes of people while i am one among them? .
> 
> You can hope all you want and if you stop doing that then it is your fault. People persevere against all odds and only those people who do persevere come up in life great. I just presented a different side of things and you guys are going all up in arms and in denial mode.


Are you reading correctly? I said "Simon" who is doing that. Are you also Simon by any chance?

I referred to you as a "honest/down-to-earth migrant" who wants to make the best out of Australia. Are you disputing that? I am complimenting you and hoping that you will succeed in Australia.


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

dave85 said:


> Are you reading correctly? I said "Simon" who is doing that. Are you also Simon by any chance?
> 
> I referred to you as a "honest/down-to-earth migrant" who wants to make the best out of Australia. Are you disputing that? I am complimenting you and hoping that you will succeed in Australia.


Apologies, i misread that  :boom:


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

just met with a bunch of ex-colleagues from the same company we all worked for (directly or indirectly) back in the GCC.

All of them work for MNCs or local big names ..... All of them are desis ...... all of them got jobs in a short (or no) time ......

Again, using 5-6 people is statistically insignificant, but again, I am just trying to say that SOME people get to their goals here easy, some get there via a bit longer/rougher route, and some don't .... doesn't mean EVERYONE falls into one or the other of the above classifications


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## hari_it_ram (Jun 30, 2013)

TheExpatriate said:


> just met with a bunch of ex-colleagues from the same company we all worked for (directly or indirectly) back in the GCC.
> 
> All of them work for MNCs or local big names ..... All of them are desis ...... all of them got jobs in a short (or no) time ......
> 
> Again, using 5-6 people is statistically insignificant, but again, I am just trying to say that SOME people get to their goals here easy, some get there via a bit longer/rougher route, and some don't .... doesn't mean EVERYONE falls into one or the other of the above classifications




Excellent. Now few CO will ask for evidence for your claim, please be ready to ignore those.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Please excuse typos.


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## girlaussie (Nov 21, 2012)

As far as I remember waiting period was never 2 weeks or less for immigrants, I think it was somewhere between 52-56 weeks, and now 104 weeks.

Girl Aussie



Simon Matthew said:


> Btw, it used to be that you just had to wait for 2 weeks or something trivial. Experienced members can shed more light. Those were the good old days.


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## girlaussie (Nov 21, 2012)

I don't understand this typical mind set " getting allowance or benefits from the State". Please tell me what benefits do you guys receive from your govt. back home?? I bet none...

Girl Aussie



Simon Matthew said:


> We already have to wait 2 years for any sort of benefits. Now they've taken away the family benefits too, starting from 1-Jan-2017. That's not a rumor. Its from official Australian government website.


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

girlaussie said:


> I don't understand this typical mind set " getting allowance or benefits from the State". Please tell me what benefits do you guys receive from your govt. back home?? I bet none...
> 
> Girl Aussie


From what I know pr holders at least get Medicare services like Normal citizens do. Please free correct me if I am wrong. 

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

TheExpatriate said:


> just met with a bunch of ex-colleagues from the same company we all worked for (directly or indirectly) back in the GCC.
> 
> All of them work for MNCs or local big names ..... All of them are desis ...... all of them got jobs in a short (or no) time ......
> 
> Again, using 5-6 people is statistically insignificant, but again, I am just trying to say that SOME people get to their goals here easy, some get there via a bit longer/rougher route, and some don't .... doesn't mean EVERYONE falls into one or the other of the above classifications


Actually it would be great if we could get a statistical data on how many among pr holders are getting employment and the duration it takes them to land a job. It would actually put a lot of arguments or claims to rest

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## girlaussie (Nov 21, 2012)

Yes all Permanent Residents do get Medicare Care to access public hospital facilities.

Girl Aussie



gonnabeexpat said:


> From what I know pr holders at least get Medicare services like Normal citizens do. Please free correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

girlaussie said:


> Yes all Permanent Residents do get Medicare Care to access public hospital facilities.
> 
> Girl Aussie


Thanks for the confirmation so we do get some benefit. 

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## shobithk (Nov 25, 2015)

I can see good future in Australian economy as per below write up.

Seven reasons to smile about Australia's future


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

bright future said:


> Yes, all PRs get Medicare from day one. They also used to get Family Tax benefits without 2 years wait(like other benefits viz unemployment etc) if they qualified (kids and income criteria).
> 
> Family tax benefits, which included rent assistance (again based on your income and the rent you paid) for a family of four with yearly income of less than $90k, were getting around $10k in government assistance.
> 
> ...


Access to Family and Childcare Benefits has not changed. What will change from 1 Jan 2017 is that new residents that have family members already in Australia will not be able to get income support payments now (https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/income-support-payment-description) - they will have to wait for the 2 years, same as all other migrants. 

Look under "Waiting Periods" here: https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/newly-arrived-residents-waiting-period

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/cu...ptions-newly-arrived-residents-waiting-period


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## Huss81 (May 17, 2013)

Don't you just love it when people throw around links without understanding what it actually means. Or when people who are in Australia just for few months start giving their expert opinions on migration policies!


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

Simon; Can you please help me understand this:


' I stick by my statement. I wouldn't have resigned my job and instead used a 457 visa to get here"

How a 457 would be better then 190..I am asking it positively, may be you can guide me..


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## Huss81 (May 17, 2013)

Because in a 457, you have a sponsor and you have a job in hand


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

Oh, Thank you Huss...I totally forgot this...


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

Guys; i do not know if people who applied for job like Simon, were better then Simon, so they got it or some other reason.

I remain shell shocked to see the results of few of my friend's, who sat for IELTS- They do not know the difference between did not know and did not knew + it's usage and to my utter shock- got 8/8.5 in IELTS. 

So, I told myself- anything is possible in this life, never think, you will get what you desire in one go, keep striving until you make it; else leave it..till when my luck will not support me, one day I will smile too...)


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## trinkasharma (Mar 20, 2013)

Giri vishnu said:


> Simon; Can you please help me understand this:
> 
> 
> ' I stick by my statement. I wouldn't have resigned my job and instead used a 457 visa to get here"
> ...


Because in a 457 you are not losing anything. It needs less documents and for salary would be much higher than your current job (If in India). In my case it would be 3 times of my job.

And you can still apply for 189/190 with much higher points in few months. Your English score, bank balance etc would normally become healthier on your 457 time.


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## trinkasharma (Mar 20, 2013)

Giri vishnu said:


> Guys; i do not know if people who applied for job like Simon, were better then Simon, so they got it or some other reason.
> 
> I remain shell shocked to see the results of few of my friend's, who sat for IELTS- They do not know the difference between did not know and did not knew + it's usage and to my utter shock- got 8/8.5 in IELTS.
> 
> So, I told myself- anything is possible in this life, never think, you will get what you desire in one go, keep striving until you make it; else leave it..till when my luck will not support me, one day I will smile too...)


Is "did not knew" a correct usage?


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## OctNovDec (Oct 20, 2016)

trinkasharma said:


> Because in a 457 you are not losing anything. It needs less documents and for salary would be much higher than your current job (If in India). In my case it would be 3 times of my job.
> 
> And you can still apply for 189/190 with much higher points in few months. Your English score, bank balance etc would normally become healthier on your 457 time.


457 is garbage compared to PR. As you are not a resident, you are taxed higher. Your salary is less than the standard rate. A PR/citizen gets 120k while a 457 will get something like 60-70k for the same job. 457s do not get the same work place rights either. The sponsor can make them work as many hours as they want. You have to pay for medical insurance. You can't live comfortably with your family on a 457, best suited for bachelors.

"Did not knew" is incorrect usage. It is did not know. 

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk


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## trinkasharma (Mar 20, 2013)

OctNovDec said:


> 457 is garbage compared to PR. As you are not a resident, you are taxed higher. Your salary is less than the standard rate. A PR/citizen gets 120k while a 457 will get something like 60-70k for the same job. 457s do not get the same work place rights either. The sponsor can make them work as many hours as they want. You have to pay for medical insurance. You can't live comfortably with your family on a 457, best suited for bachelors.
> 
> "Did not knew" is incorrect usage. It is did not know.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk


457 is not as good as 189/190 but it is way better than an Indian of equivalent job.

Work hours are not fixed in India as well.


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

No- It is not a correct usage- That only is a shocker !!


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

A friend of mine, constantly says this, rather use to say this- now, she is in Sydney on 190- IELTS- 8 score...I am still surprised; many times, I told myself to correct her, but stopped..


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

I hope, you do not feel that 489 is garbage too?


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## Marianne_ (Dec 19, 2016)

I think this thread ist not fair enough. "Think twice BEFORE coming to Australia (WHY YOU SHOULDN´T)" 

With that kind of title I expected more information that a simple case of anyone who can not get a job in any country. Is one more case, that's it! And it is not fair enough because this is a guy writting something that maybe a lot of people has the immigration to Australia like a life plan, but he has no intention to go back to his country, I think this is kind of selfish.

It is like me saying: "hey do not go to work in the company XYZ, is diffcult to get a job, wages are bad as hell, you need to work a lot." But Im trying to get a job in it! Is not just fair.

By the other hand, wouldn't be fair if I open a thread like: "Why you should go to work in Australia, my brother went to Sydney and got a job in 3 weeks!" 

We can not generalise the whole situation by one bad, good or great history. If you have done your job, then you would know that IT has the ceilings almots filled up every year, just to know, last year was filled up by 100%. Now, this fileds; IT, System or Information Engeneer have been flagged, so, is a matter of time you would have less competitors in a few years.

If you made a plan to go and live to another country, you need to adapt to the life there not backward. Im sure that the gouverment's plan's is not to accept people to give them money while they find jobs. If you want goverment's support while hunting a job, you should consider Canadá as an option.

There is no perfect country, and Australia is far to be the perfect one! I went to Sydney 3 years ago and was beautiful, I had a plenty of jobs there, and I think you should consider to be a volunteer, took it like a piece of advice, be more humble and to think why another person got the job you where applying for, there is no perfect qualified person for a job.

Im in HHRR field and once I was interviewing a "nerd", like himself said, he was talking about all the programming languages he learnt and my boss just was looking for someone who know C++; I think; I can not remember, with experience of 3 years on it. Sometimes it is better to know a lot of little, than little of a lot! 

Regards!


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## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

TheExpatriate said:


> just met with a bunch of ex-colleagues from the same company we all worked for (directly or indirectly) back in the GCC.
> 
> All of them work for MNCs or local big names ..... All of them are desis ...... all of them got jobs in a short (or no) time ......
> 
> Again, using 5-6 people is statistically insignificant, but again, I am just trying to say that SOME people get to their goals here easy, some get there via a bit longer/rougher route, and some don't .... doesn't mean EVERYONE falls into one or the other of the above classifications


"desi" is a local word in India... I am pleased to see you using this...


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## OctNovDec (Oct 20, 2016)

Giri vishnu said:


> I hope, you do not feel that 489 is garbage too?


489 is a lot better than 457. Although 489 is also not a resident visa, and thus, you pay higher taxes, it's restrictions to work in regional Australia balances it up. The housing and overall expenses in regional areas will obviously be more reasonable compared to the city. Further, 489 has an option of turning into a PR at the end of 2 years, whereas 457 doesn't necessarily have that option. It depends on the employer whether he will turn it into 186 or not. You can use that experience for points, but then again, experience keeps getting clipped in assessments if it is not directly related to the occupation you're applying for. 

The merit and demerit of 457 are the same thing i.e., the employer. 489 is state-sponsored, and so chances of exploitation are less.


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## sudarshan1987 (Oct 7, 2013)

I would like to share my experience after being in Australia for more than 2 years now. I landed in Adelaide on 10th of October 2014 on Skilled independent 189 Visa. The reason I decided to land in Adelaide because one of my old friend was living there and he had a spare room in his share house. Also being in a new country with someone you know is always a plus point. Anyways, after 2 weeks of exploring Adelaide & finishing all the formalities like getting TFN, Medicare card etc I decided to start the job hunt. Days turned in to weeks, weeks in to months and my bank balance with bleeding without any positive result. That is when I when I decided to do some reality checks and started having a deep look around me. The three Indians with whom I lived all had masters, living in Australia for more than 6 years and yet working casual jobs in retail and hospitality. I noticed that it was common and even met a guy who has a Phd driving taxi as he was unable to secure job in his profession. 

In order to keep the cash inflow, I decided to do some casual jobs and continue the job hunt. Even getting those casual jobs wasn't easy and took me nearly a month to get one. After working casual jobs for few months and not being successful in finding job in my field, I decided to move to Queensland as there were a lot of Engineering/mining jobs/construction projects booming there. I did try hard for a month but then again to maintain the cash flow had to get a casual job which turned out to be full time job as I had to work 50 hrs a week !

Having worked for few months in Queensland and not able to get a job in my profession, I decided to move to NSW and try my luck there. The FMCG company that I was working as a casual packer/cleaner had vacancies in NSW for which i applied and got transferred.

I must say that during all these months I have been actively looking for jobs, networking, socializing, attending events, meeting recruiters (waste of time in my case) and doing everything in my power to land in a job of my choice.

After moving to NSW I continued my job search. And finally after 6 months of moving here, I got a phone call on one fine day. To my surprise it was from a reputable organization asking me if I was free this week for an interview ! I said that I was free today and scheduled a meet with the General Manager. In the mean time i had to call sick at the place I was working! The interview was smooth and not a single technical questions were asked. It was more about how well I communicate, my attitude & passion towards work. I received the offer letter within a week and joined my new workplace as a Process Engineer the next week.

PS: I am a Mechanical Engineer working in FMCG industry as a Process Engineer.

I do agree with whatever the thread starter has stated. You will meet a lot of people here who will say they will help you, they know so and so person in this organization but in the end turn out to be empty vessels.


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## Marianne_ (Dec 19, 2016)

sudarshan1987 said:


> I would like to share my experience after being in Australia for more than 2 years now. I landed in Adelaide on 10th of October 2014 on Skilled independent 189 Visa. The reason I decided to land in Adelaide because one of my old friend was living there and he had a spare room in his share house. Also being in a new country with someone you know is always a plus point. Anyways, after 2 weeks of exploring Adelaide & finishing all the formalities like getting TFN, Medicare card etc I decided to start the job hunt. Days turned in to weeks, weeks in to months and my bank balance with bleeding without any positive result. That is when I when I decided to do some reality checks and started having a deep look around me. The three Indians with whom I lived all had masters, living in Australia for more than 6 years and yet working casual jobs in retail and hospitality. I noticed that it was common and even met a guy who has a Phd driving taxi as he was unable to secure job in his profession.
> 
> In order to keep the cash inflow, I decided to do some casual jobs and continue the job hunt. Even getting those casual jobs wasn't easy and took me nearly a month to get one. After working casual jobs for few months and not being successful in finding job in my field, I decided to move to Queensland as there were a lot of Engineering/mining jobs/construction projects booming there. I did try hard for a month but then again to maintain the cash flow had to get a casual job which turned out to be full time job as I had to work 50 hrs a week !
> 
> ...


That's nice dude! Hope enjoy your new job!


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

sultan_azam said:


> "desi" is a local word in India... I am pleased to see you using this...


I have friends from almost every background. Asian, African, European, Latin American, North American etc., so I know a few words from here and a few words from there.

As a matter of fact I was the only non-Pakistani in a team that was exclusively Pakistanis ..... I am an expert in Urdu and Punjabi curse words now LOL


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## satnamsakshi (May 14, 2015)

HI,

THE EXPATRIATE

I have a query, if you can help it will be great.

My query is, if i get a +ve assesment with 3 years experience from acs still i can mark that experience as irrelevant in eoi and it is legeally correct, i mean i will not face any trouble for it in future.
If there is some document or clause in this support. it will be a great help for me


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

satnamsakshi said:


> HI,
> 
> THE EXPATRIATE
> 
> ...


I think it's better to start a new thread for your inquiry (and I will answer there) to avoid sidelining this thread


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

TheExpatriate said:


> I have friends from almost every background. Asian, African, European, Latin American, North American etc., so I know a few words from here and a few words from there.
> 
> As a matter of fact I was the only non-Pakistani in a team that was exclusively Pakistanis ..... I am an expert in Urdu and Punjabi curse words now LOL


Hey, if you don't know any curse words, then you don't know the language at all. LOL.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Hi, I'm back.  Before, I go any further, I'd like to point you all to a certain fact when it comes to debating/rationalizing. We need to be empathetic towards the people responding to our posts. We neither know their mental state nor sometimes understand their reasons for rationalization. For instance, the gentleman here who cited his only major reason for moving to Australia was his "freedom of speech". Do I understand it? No, I wont pretend to understand it too. However, I can RELATE to it with another reason that prompted me to move here. The promise that I could be with my family and could return home every night to them. So, although we may not necessarily understand the individual reasons for the rationalization, we can certainly relate and more importantly, WE MUST OPEN OUR MINDS TO TRY AND UNDERSTAND IT.

Also, just because someone is not in Australia, doesn't mean that s/he couldn't have a greater understanding about the country and culture here. I rationalize with the fact that there are many residents in Australia that cannot relate with what groups of people (like me) had/have to go through. We should not smother the light of knowledge. We never know when or from whom we could learn more about what we can do to improve ourselves. When we start making this about 2 people rather than 2 ideologies, then we start losing focus of the big picture. 

Moreover, people will always measure you with their own yardstick. They will ALWAYS reflect themselves onto you and your opinions; so when they accuse me of being a cheat or having an "ego", we always have to be a bit sensitive on how we respond to those. Like I said, if we start making this about our personal traits, this thread will take the path of personal insults and its not something that I desire. 

Let's push the boundaries, but not cross the line. Let's debate, but let's not stifle.


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## benisrael (Oct 8, 2016)

Hi Simon, thanks for the advice, opened me up to other possibilities which we usually choose not to see. While it may be difficult to get a job, it's not impossible. Have you managed to get a job?

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi All,
I came across this thread today. Read the last 2 pages, though not completely.
I am a SAP consultant with nearly 12 years experience and I am currently in the process of applying for either 189 or 190 visa for Aus, but seeing the list of activities which needs to be completed, it seems that it may be that by end of next year, may be I would have any chance of getting the visa.
My wife has no Functional English, so I would need to pay the extra amount also, along with my visa application, which would have my wife and my child as dependents. So seems like I would need to put more money in my visa application.
My question is - How is the current job trend for a SAP consultant in Aus? Any information here please. Since I will not have any local exp when I will reach Aus, so how negatively it would hamper my job search? What do you say on an overall level - would it be worth for me to reach Aus and give a try for job search there? Any advice/suggestions/information is welcome. Thanks.


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## Marianne_ (Dec 19, 2016)

Come on Simon!! Give me a break! Read the title of this post and then tell us if you give us an advice that you would not follow?

So, we should not go to Australia because of your bad experience? That's it? It is a little bit selfish if you say that but you still in Australia trying to get a great job, Don't you think that? You are not helping anybody with "your truth".

By the way, my scores on ielts are 9s, 9r, 8.5w and 8.5l


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## mrIgor (Jun 27, 2015)

Simon Matthew said:


> Disclaimer: I'm neither anti-Australian nor a pessimist. This thread aims to bring the stark reality of the job market to newly arriving migrants, particularly those who aim to migrate in 2017
> 
> (1) First and foremost, newly arriving migrants have to wait at least 104 weeks (that is 2 years) before you are eligible for any sort of benefits/social payment in Australia. This means that when you arrive here, don't expect the government or anyone to support you financially and help you with anything. People talk the talk, but mostly don't walk the walk.
> 
> ...



Man, I've never heard nothing like that.


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## sk2014 (Apr 7, 2014)

misecmisc said:


> Hi All,
> I came across this thread today. Read the last 2 pages, though not completely.
> I am a SAP consultant with nearly 12 years experience and I am currently in the process of applying for either 189 or 190 visa for Aus, but seeing the list of activities which needs to be completed, it seems that it may be that by end of next year, may be I would have any chance of getting the visa.
> My wife has no Functional English, so I would need to pay the extra amount also, along with my visa application, which would have my wife and my child as dependents. So seems like I would need to put more money in my visa application.
> My question is - How is the current job trend for a SAP consultant in Aus? Any information here please. Since I will not have any local exp when I will reach Aus, so how negatively it would hamper my job search? What do you say on an overall level - would it be worth for me to reach Aus and give a try for job search there? Any advice/suggestions/information is welcome. Thanks.


I dont have idea about SAP consultants specifically but try searching on seek.com.au and see what you find.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

benisrael said:


> Hi Simon, thanks for the advice, opened me up to other possibilities which we usually choose not to see. While it may be difficult to get a job, it's not impossible. Have you managed to get a job?
> 
> Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk


Nope. Everything is shutdown here till Jan 9th.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

mrIgor said:


> Man, I've never heard nothing like that.


There is no exaggeration in that post. It's all true.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Marianne_ said:


> By the way, my scores on ielts are 9s, 9r, 8.5w and 8.5l


Congratulations on your high score. 



Marianne_ said:


> Come on Simon!! Give me a break! Read the title of this post and then tell us if you give us an advice that you would not follow?
> 
> So, we should not go to Australia because of your bad experience? That's it? It is a little bit selfish if you say that but you still in Australia trying to get a great job, Don't you think that? You are not helping anybody with "your truth".


I'm sorry, but the intent of this thread is at a different intellectual level. Let me clarify in detail. I didn't want to do it at this early stage, but it looks like it's time to clear the air. Let's try to broadly categorize the people migrating here into three:
(1) People who are trying to escape the discrimination, the unfairness and what they may perceive to be life trapped in social stigma. They may not have had their dream job and it may seem to them that among all the red tape and discrimination, they may never land one.
(2) People looking for a "safe haven" during a time of crisis.
(3) People who already have a good life, have already had international work experience, good money in their bank and want to now take the next step in their life and career. 

I don't belong to the first two categories. I can never identify with them too. I belong to the third category; I had a stellar career and was tired of all the traveling and thought to myself, why not move somewhere where I didn't have to travel for my work? Moreover, being in Australia, (I thought) will open me to land of great opportunities. Well, the opportunities are present, but the bouncer at the door tells me I need to be inside the club for me to enter it (Local experience).

So this thread is essentially for people who are going to give up their current life, thinking that a transition into Australian community is a sure shot! The truth is, the success stories are far and between and we have a LOT of people who have given up on finding the role THEY WANT and have SETTLED for a role THEY COULD FIND.



Marianne_ said:


> So, we should not go to Australia because of your bad experience? That's it? It is a little bit selfish if you say that but you still in Australia trying to get a great job, Don't you think that?


How is it selfish when I'm trying to help people save their money and apply for jobs from overseas while giving the perception that they are present locally? To this day, I haven't understood all the criticism on this point. Why are you so keen on shutting me down when all I'm telling people is to be prepared for the worst of the worst? There are several threads on here that speak of the glorious successes, but the truth for me is that if I'm told I need local experience when I'm seeking for one, that is TOTALLY UNFAIR.

Look at the information in the thread. Especially about how the consultants themselves don't get any feedback from their clients. Do you know how difficult it is to get that feedback? First, no consultant wants to openly criticize their client. They are after all running a business. Second, I need to cross verify one consultant's account with another to ensure that I'm not being taken for a ride. 

To dismiss all of this information as "selfish" is, to say the least, distorting the facts.



Marianne_ said:


> You are not helping anybody with "your truth".


I've answered this question throughout this thread and part of my answer is also reiterated above. Maybe I didn't help you with "my truth", but there are certainly a lot of people who have thanked me for this post/thread. Do you identify with the genre I mentioned above? If not, then this thread may not make sense to you.


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## baokar1 (Jul 22, 2013)

Simon are you back in India , how many months were you there in Australia ?



Simon Matthew said:


> Disclaimer: I'm neither anti-Australian nor a pessimist. This thread aims to bring the stark reality of the job market to newly arriving migrants, particularly those who aim to migrate in 2017
> 
> (1) First and foremost, newly arriving migrants have to wait at least 104 weeks (that is 2 years) before you are eligible for any sort of benefits/social payment in Australia. This means that when you arrive here, don't expect the government or anyone to support you financially and help you with anything. People talk the talk, but mostly don't walk the walk.
> 
> ...


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

baokar1 said:


> Simon are you back in India , how many months were you there in Australia ?


No, I'm still here. I've been in Sydney for almost 9 months now.


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> No, I'm still here. I've been in Sydney for almost 9 months now.


So for me, as a software engineer, what would you suggest will having 189 much more beneficial than 190 SS NSW - as the only difference between 189 and 190 for a software engineer may be that in 189 in addition to NSW, there is one more state of Vic. So will having 2 states of NSW and Vic, be much more beneficial than having only one state of NSW from the perspective of job searching and then getting a job? So will having 189 PR visa be much more beneficial than having 190 SS NSW PR visa? Please suggest. Thanks.


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## Bbay2Oz (May 10, 2010)

Hey Simon,

Just a thought. After reading your first couple of posts it occurred to me that you were probably rejected at the interviews because they (the interviewers) felt threatened by you (they've probably seldom met someone this qualified with excellent communication skills to boot). 

In a slowing economy with companies looking to trim excess fat, I guess everyone is very insecure and fighting to keep their own jobs. So quite possibly when someone really smart and articulate like you turns up at the interview they feel threatened about their future. Have you considered moving to Melbourne (at least the rental market is not as ridiculous as it is in Sydney!)?

And you're advice about not chucking it all up when you have a 5 year visa to make up your mind is very valid. We did exactly that except we took 10 years to come here (I "retired" here and my hubby works for himself) 

Anyway chin up and I wish you good luck. Hopefully this unfortunate phase in your life is temporary.


----------



## Marianne_ (Dec 19, 2016)

Of course this post does not have any sense to me, I used to live 1.5 years in Sydney, always had a job and because that, I need to encourage people to go to Australia??

If you are not happy in Australia for your bad situation you should back home and let other people do whatever they want, they deserve to try to find that kind of thing by they own way just like you did it, not because one guy told something bad, don't you think?


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## nicemathan (May 29, 2013)

*Buddy, sorry for you to go through such tough times.

May the next year bring good times.*


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## nicemathan (May 29, 2013)

I read start to end of this thread. All opinions, view point, point of view, suggestion etc etc etc etc.

Humble request please, go back home for few weeks and meet your family and kids, during this closure period. 8-9 months gap in job hunt mode is quite difficult for any person.

Is sample size of 900+ people statistically significant. That's *our* (I refine from saying *"My"* Circle, there is a reason for it) circle of contacts not Facebook not LinkedIn, mobile contacts, about 80%-90% people have got job in the range of 0-6 months. (By the way getting job means success?, I don't think so) 

*There are many many situations and scenarios but I will try to match your situation, there is this single girl from India. Her Dad passed away few year back, so mother needs to be taken cared. She was struggling for job, since last 11 months. Finally, she got her first break two weeks back, face to face interviews in Sydney and work location Melbourne. The moment she called and informed about job, I was in tears for her (call it emotional or tears of happiness)*

Kind request, please don't promote, *DISHONESTY * using an Oz number and claiming to be in Oz or spinning some story that the applicant is away from Australia for vacation/something during the call from potential recruiter, is a *BIG NO NO* please don't treat recruiters as some "Beep Sound" 

*One person does something fishy, next 10 people from similar ethnic background and genuine claims will also be seen with suspicion.*

I really liked that lines from one of member - *You think we think ........ We don't*

*Sorry to say,* this thread's starters updates are promoting and oozing with *negativity*. You may say its yet another opinion or freedom of speech or whatever jargon.

Trust me migrating aspirants, *be honest, be truthful, patience, perseverance, right attitude, help others as much as possible, these things will take you places. Never socialise with vested interest, i.e. networking for the sake of job hunt or something else*

By the way, does anyone know how much does it cost is get a* TAXI* plate, once you figure out the $ figures, please do research why it costs that much. *Driving TAXI is inferior thing?*


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## Bbay2Oz (May 10, 2010)

nicemathan said:


> By the way, does anyone know how much does it cost is get a* TAXI* plate, once you figure out the $ figures, please do research why it costs that much. *Driving TAXI is inferior thing?*


What's your point? Not sure I understand. <*SNIP*>

Currently it costs $0and you can drive a taxi without a taxi license (no regulations passed yet).

Taxi industry puts unlicensed cabs on road as Uber bites into old business model

In the past thanks to stupid Govt. controls and regulations, cost of licenses went to as high as $500,000 in 2012. And consumers paid through their noses in taxi fares. 

Then Uber happened. The taxi industry could no longer hold consumers to ransom. But this stupid govt. will/plans to introduce a $2 levy on Uber fares to protect the holders of what became drastically reduced value of historical taxi licenses.

No Cookies | Herald Sun

Taxi driving is hard work - long hours for very little pay in an over-crowded industry. Plus you need to buy a vehicle - how many newly arrived migrants have that kind of money?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/09/uber-drivers-report-sweated-labour-minimum-wage


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## nicemathan (May 29, 2013)

I am very well aware of UBER. 

That's why I mentioned TAXI.

Question was simple, Cost of getting a TAXI plate and is it inferior to drive TAXI? Because it was mentioned in this thread that so and so was driving taxi. OMG.

Bbay2OZ, my responses were for this thread starter, so please



Bbay2Oz said:


> What's your point? Not sure I understand. Are you even aware of what's happening?
> 
> Currently it costs $0and you can drive a taxi without a taxi license (no regulations passed yet).
> 
> ...


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## Bbay2Oz (May 10, 2010)

nicemathan said:


> Question was simple, Cost of getting a TAXI plate and is it inferior to drive TAXI?


Taxi plate is worthless now. So the answer to your question is $0.

Not sure what you mean by inferior. In terms of $$$ and as a business proposition it is inferior given that the taxi business model is no longer profitable at all.




nicemathan said:


> Bbay2OZ, my responses were for this thread starter, so please


This is an open forum. If you object to others responding to your posts on an open forum then that is your problem.


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## Bbay2Oz (May 10, 2010)

*Good old days*



Simon Matthew said:


> Yes, precisely my point. Don't you think it gives the impression that if one were to arrive in Australia before 1-Jan-2017, they could avail of the benefits?
> 
> Btw, it used to be that you just had to wait for 2 weeks or something trivial. Experienced members can shed more light. Those were the good old days.


Dole/new start allowance was stopped ages ago, probably 15 years ago. We've been visiting since 1999. Even when we first applied in 1999 there was a clause about having sufficient funds to see immigrants through 2 years. 

Now they're making it very tough to get Govt. handouts and there is a serious intention to clampdown on disability pension, New Start, Family tax benefits, Superannuation etc.

When my husband's sister and family arrived in 1989 (both highly qualified, IIT grads and post grads) they were jobless for about a year in which time he retrained and got a job in IT. 

Most of my extended family members from my husband's side and family friends are in IT (no surprise there....lol). One of them was retrenched after 15 years in the same company (was given several awards just before being retrenched....so go figure) and the only reason he could find another job was due to his contacts.

They used to tell us that the dole they received then was more than enough to cover all their expenses and even save (trust us Indians to do that...lol). A 2 bed apartment in a very posh suburb (median house price there is $2 million) was just $105 a week. They bought their first house for $180k in 1996 and then bought several more. Good old days indeed.


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## Bbay2Oz (May 10, 2010)

mnmedipa said:


> They are countries which dont treat you as cash cows and give scholarships and free education for the meritorious...


So does Australia. The quality of education my family have received is excellent and cannot be faulted.

My oldest is a Chancellor's scholar at the No.1. University in Australia. She went to a top (No.1 7 years in a row) secondary school in Melbourne, very nominal fees (around $1200 a year). Her university education was entirely free, in addition she was paid $5,000 a year plus given a lot of other sops. She had similar offers from all the Uni's that she had applied to.

She has also been awarded a guaranteed Commonwealth supported place (CSP) in ANY post-grad degree of her choice. 

My nephews and nieces have also had free education and CSP supported places in medicine, law and engineering.


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

*TO ALL POSTERS!
*
The subject of this thread can be an emotive one.

However, Forum Moderators will NOT accept breaches of the forum rules.

That would be the quickest way to earn Infractions, and a quick ban from the Forum.

Keep it civil please, personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Think before you post - Am I directing a comment at another member personally? Could they find what I am saying rude or insulting?

You may care to re-visit the Forum Rules: http://www.expatforum.com/expats/general-expat-discussions/2397-forum-rules.html

Please not Rules 1 and 2 in particular:

*Rule 1: Expatforum.com is an interactive site. Please treat others here the way you wish to be treated, with respect, and without insult or personal attack. Personal attacks will NOT be tolerated. Trolling on this site is not tolerated, that being deliberately inflammatory posts, and trolls will be removed from the site immediately.

Rule 2: Sexually explicit, racist, obscene or vulgar language, graphics or behaviour is NOT acceptable on this site. Should anyone use inappropriate language, engage in a personal attack, or use hate speech, their posting rights will be revoked immediately. In the same way, links to adult content, pages with links to adult content, near adult content, hate sites or messages describing anything against the law is not allowed and will be removed.*

Thank you.


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## Ajeet (Nov 24, 2015)

*Why I chose Australia over USA*

Thank you so very much for your posts. Positive people will always find a way to be successful and vice-versa.

As I keep saying - no country is perfect but to raise a family Australia is the best! 

I left USA for Australia and I am so glad, I did. Only regret is that I could have moved earlier but never gave Australia a thought. It was only after I decided that I won't wait for the Green Card for a decade, that Australia came into picture.


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## mnmedipa (Sep 9, 2016)

Bbay2Oz said:


> So does Australia. The quality of education my family have received is excellent and cannot be faulted.
> 
> My oldest is a Chancellor's scholar at the No.1. University in Australia. She went to a top (No.1 7 years in a row) secondary school in Melbourne, very nominal fees (around $1200 a year). Her university education was entirely free, in addition she was paid $5,000 a year plus given a lot of other sops. She had similar offers from all the Uni's that she had applied to.
> 
> ...


I was mentioning about international students... Even though they are meritorious they don't get scholarships and education at postgraduate level is just similar to bachelors level education... It seemed to me that the course was low par... Children who are kids of residents cannot be considered here... 

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk


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## Bbay2Oz (May 10, 2010)

mnmedipa said:


> I was mentioning about international students... Even though they are meritorious they don't get scholarships and education at postgraduate level is just similar to bachelors level education... It seemed to me that the course was low par... Children who are kids of residents cannot be considered here...
> 
> Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk


Not true. Scholarships are offered by several universities for bright international students on merit. Here's just one example:

https://studenteforms.app.unimelb.edu.au/apex/f?p=153:2:0:::2:P2_ID:245
https://futurestudents.unimelb.edu.au/admissions/scholarships


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## mnmedipa (Sep 9, 2016)

Bbay2Oz said:


> Not true. Scholarships are offered by several universities for bright international students on merit. Here's just one example:
> 
> https://studenteforms.app.unimelb.edu.au/apex/f?p=153:2:0:::2:P2_ID:245
> https://futurestudents.unimelb.edu.au/admissions/scholarships


I am not saying they aren't any scholarships... There are not any way close to that in comparison with usa and Germany... And education standards are no way comparable to usa... So they are charging international students such high fee and giving bad education means they are exploiting... I know that your daughter had free education but she was probably in the top 5% students and every developed country offers free education for residents kids... I don't see how Australia is doing anything special... Germany offers free education for their own and international students... Same does usa... Australia charges majority of the students which are non local high fees and delivers nothing education wise... 

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk


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## Bbay2Oz (May 10, 2010)

mnmedipa said:


> I am not saying they aren't any scholarships... There are not any way close to that in comparison with usa and Germany... And education standards are no way comparable to usa... So they are charging international students such high fee and giving bad education means they are exploiting... I know that your daughter had free education but she was probably in the top 5% students and every developed country offers free education for residents kids... I don't see how Australia is doing anything special... Germany offers free education for their own and international students... Same does usa... Australia charges majority of the students which are non local high fees and delivers nothing education wise...
> 
> Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk


While I agree with the points made in the OP by Simon I do draw the line at the blatant spreading of misinformation in some of the posts (both negative and positive). 

Contrary to what you've been claiming, I've found the quality of university education (at least in the Go8 universities) in Australia to be excellent. Quite a few international students who studied with my daughter were on full scholarships too. So I am not just referring to the experience of resident students.

There bad universities and colleges in the US too or for that matter same as every where else in the world. This is not unique to just Australia.

Anyway, I'm not taking this discussion any further. If you think the education in Australia is so very bad then perhaps you should consider moving to USA and Germany for the sake of your children's education. Problem solved.


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

Guys, let's take pride in what we have done this year and hope the next year brings a positive change for all.

Life is bigger than going to Australia or Canada, what matters is we should be happy & safe, wherever we are ( Think about it)..We will reach ultimately our goals sooner or later..Happy New Year to us and for some days, let's just enjoy this time !!


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## Bbay2Oz (May 10, 2010)

So for those who don't believe Simon and think that some immigrants “after having enjoyed Australia for a few months” now have an ulterior motive to stop other immigrants from “enjoying Australia”, here are some very hard hitting facts:

Proportion of Indian IT workers on 457 visas on rock bottom pay triples



> The proportion of IT professionals from India granted 457 visas and paid base salaries of $53,900 or less, much lower than experienced Australian IT professionals, has tripled under the Coalition government, a study has found.
> The Australian Population Research Institute has found that IT professionals are the largest single occupation represented in the 457 program and more than three-quarters are Indian nationals who mostly work in Sydney or Melbourne.


So thanks to IT workers on 457s it is a race to the bottom in so far as salaries and jobs are concerned for permanent residents and citizens. 


And this insightful report shows why it is getting increasingly difficult to find jobs in the IT industry.

http://tapri.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Immigration-overflow-final-3-Dec-2016.pdf


Given the virulent reactions of some posters in this thread it is no wonder that the more experienced old timers who aren't very successful seldom post here anymore. 

It takes a lot of bravery to admit failure, so there's no need to kick a person who is already down and is only trying to help. This is very poor form. Hope it doesn't put off other posters from voicing their not so good experience here.

The sensible handful that do take advantage of the advice provided by the more experienced posters and are more receptive to bad news will actually be better prepared and more likely to succeed.


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## shivam7106 (Aug 15, 2016)

Bbay2Oz said:


> Taxi plate is worthless now. So the answer to your question is $0.
> 
> Not sure what you mean by inferior. In terms of $$$ and as a business proposition it is inferior given that the taxi business model is no longer profitable at all.
> 
> ...


Hi people,

I dont know that from which place are we coming from?? Here people are targeting the whole profession - *TAXI* by calling it *INFERIOR*  . Atleast people are working and making money and able to afford their luxuries.......yes guys you read it write *LUXURIES* 

I personally know many people here in Australia who are not into white collar jobs but they are doing better than what engineers and bank managers couldn't do. Trust me taxi drivers are filthy rich here.

Don't compare Australia with any other country like USA or UK, but try to understand Australia and its economy, demography, etc. Unike US, Australia is a country of trade person. Here tradies or blue collar jobs earn more as compared to White collar jobs.

Respect the country and its culture and to be success just remeber *When in Rome, do as the Romans do*.


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

Bbay2Oz said:


> So for those who don't believe Simon and think that some immigrants “after having enjoyed Australia for a few months” now have an ulterior motive to stop other immigrants from “enjoying Australia”, here are some very hard hitting facts:
> 
> Proportion of Indian IT workers on 457 visas on rock bottom pay triples
> 
> ...


I have not read the URLs posted in above post, but from an overall level, it seems that the above post is indicating that IT professionals migrating to Aus in either 189/190 PR visa would be having much difficulty in getting a job in Aus.

So my question is - What would you suggest as to how should a software engineer approach this situation? means - what should we do - should we just drop the Aus PR idea totally? I cannot say about others, but as far as I am concerned, when I will get EOI invite and then when I will apply for PR visa, I would need to pay in total a big amount, as in my application, I will have my wife and my child included in it, plus I will have to pay the additional amount for my wife not having Functional English - so on overall, it would add up to become a big amount.

So what advice would you suggest to me and other software engineers regarding how to proceed with the above post's situation regarding job finding and job getting? Please suggest. Thanks.


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## Bbay2Oz (May 10, 2010)

shivam7106 said:


> ]
> I personally know many people here in Australia who are not into white collar jobs but they are doing better than what engineers and bank managers couldn't do. Trust me taxi drivers are filthy rich here.][/B].







Melbourne Uber protests 'could get ugly', angry Melbourne taxi drivers warn - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

WATCH: Taxi drivers protest in Melbourne | SBS Your Language

No Cookies | Herald Sun

http://www.kiis1011.com.au/newsroom/melbourne-cbd-set-to-close-as-taxi-drivers-protest

Enough or should I go on?

Trust you? Yeah right.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Bbay2Oz said:


> Hey Simon,
> 
> Just a thought. After reading your first couple of posts it occurred to me that you were probably rejected at the interviews because they (the interviewers) felt threatened by you (they've probably seldom met someone this qualified with excellent communication skills to boot).
> 
> ...


Good points on here. Everything up for consideration in the new year.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Bbay2Oz said:


> Taxi drivers protesting against Uber front of Victorian parliament Melbourne Australia 05 10 16 - YouTube
> 
> Melbourne Uber protests 'could get ugly', angry Melbourne taxi drivers warn - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
> 
> ...


 Plus you have to wait for 12 months after you get your license to apply for a Taxi license; at least that's how it is in NSW. One more link to help your case.

https://www.nswtaxi.org.au/drivers/become-driver


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

misecmisc said:


> I have not read the URLs posted in above post, but from an overall level, it seems that the above post is indicating that IT professionals migrating to Aus in either 189/190 PR visa would be having much difficulty in getting a job in Aus.
> 
> So my question is - What would you suggest as to how should a software engineer approach this situation? means - what should we do - should we just drop the Aus PR idea totally? I cannot say about others, but as far as I am concerned, when I will get EOI invite and then when I will apply for PR visa, I would need to pay in total a big amount, as in my application, I will have my wife and my child included in it, plus I will have to pay the additional amount for my wife not having Functional English - so on overall, it would add up to become a big amount.
> 
> So what advice would you suggest to me and other software engineers regarding how to proceed with the above post's situation regarding job finding and job getting? Please suggest. Thanks.


The answer is simple. Do you want to continue to work as a software engineer? That may not be guaranteed here. What is the intention of your migration? If you could shed a bit more light, then I can advise accordingly.

Yes, the visa money is huge; there is no denying that.


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

shivam7106 said:


> Hi people,
> 
> I dont know that from which place are we coming from?? Here people are targeting the whole profession - *TAXI* by calling it *INFERIOR*  . Atleast people are working and making money and able to afford their luxuries.......yes guys you read it write *LUXURIES*
> 
> ...


You've missed the point of this thread completely. You've applied for a PR using your Skills as a stepping stone and you are more than happy to throw that all away and become a tax driver even before being here?

Sorry, I don't identify with your thinking and hence cannot accept it.


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Bbay2Oz said:


> Dole/new start allowance was stopped ages ago, probably 15 years ago. We've been visiting since 1999. Even when we first applied in 1999 there was a clause about having sufficient funds to see immigrants through 2 years.
> 
> Now they're making it very tough to get Govt. handouts and there is a serious intention to clampdown on disability pension, New Start, Family tax benefits, Superannuation etc.
> 
> ...


Yes, my wife's relatives here tell me the same story. Amazing, wasn't it?


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Bbay2Oz said:


> So for those who don't believe Simon and think that some immigrants “after having enjoyed Australia for a few months” now have an ulterior motive to stop other immigrants from “enjoying Australia”, here are some very hard hitting facts:
> 
> Proportion of Indian IT workers on 457 visas on rock bottom pay triples
> 
> ...


Thanks for summing it up in a mature manner.  I also have one more point to say. We really don't need to be on the backfoot here. There is a general perception that PR holders don't have a voice or cannot complain about the treatment meted out to them. That is WRONG. We have paid for our PR visa, which means we DO HAVE RIGHTS that are ABOVE A SPONSORSHIP visa. How, you may ask? Simple. A PR is a MUTUAL AGREEMENT for both the aspirer and the host nation to play a pivotal role in the development of the country.

To decide that we should not question this injustice (especially with what's happening in the job market), is sadly DUE TO OUR OWN ASIAN MINDSET. Anyone who has worked in the international arena knows that if you put your request ACROSS POLITELY, WITH REASON and WITHOUT PREJUDICE, it will be Welcomed. This is also attested by the fact of cyberkidz post where he went to the "Department of human services/employment" and made a note of his displeasure.

I WANT TO REITERATE ON THIS POINT. If one were to follow the democratic process, the process in place by the Australian government, it would do them no harm. I am NOT CALLING FOR A REVOLUTION or a PROTEST. We can find the email addresses of our state/federal departments and send them an email. There is no harm in that. Let our voices (polite, asking for fairness) convert themselves into numbers and statistics. When the numbers are big enough, they will automatically attract the attention from the responsible government departments. There is nothing to lose, but much to gain.

Also, consider the much BROADER picture. Highly qualified migrants (No, I'm not talking just about myself) arrive here, can't find jobs they want, settle for blue collar jobs; INADVERTENTLY STEALING JOBS from the BLUE Collared workers WHO REALLY NEED IT and thereby increasing their resentment towards the newly migrated! This again means that the new arrivals will find it even harder to be accepted in the local community. It's just pure logic and can you blame them for the resentment?


----------



## sultan_azam (Sep 9, 2015)

Simon Matthew said:


> Thanks for summing it up in a mature manner.  I also have one more point to say. We really don't need to be on the backfoot here. There is a general perception that PR holders don't have a voice or cannot complain about the treatment meted out to them. That is WRONG. We have paid for our PR visa, which means we DO HAVE RIGHTS that are ABOVE A SPONSORSHIP visa. How, you may ask? Simple. A PR is a MUTUAL AGREEMENT for both the aspirer and the host nation to play a pivotal role in the development of the country.
> 
> To decide that we should not question this injustice (especially with what's happening in the job market), is sadly DUE TO OUR OWN ASIAN MINDSET. Anyone who has worked in the international arena knows that if you put your request ACROSS POLITELY, WITH REASON and WITHOUT PREJUDICE, it will be Welcomed. This is also attested by the fact of cyberkidz post where he went to the "Department of human services/employment" and made a note of his displeasure.
> 
> ...


it seems to move forward now.

what do you think is the path ahead ?? how to pave way for migrants ??


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

nicemathan said:


> Humble request please, go back home for few weeks and meet your family and kids, during this closure period. 8-9 months gap in job hunt mode is quite difficult for any person.


Yes, I miss sex very much. Hahahaahaaaa.  More importantly I miss playing with my kids and snuggling up to them whenever I could. I won't deny that.



nicemathan said:


> Kind request, please don't promote, *DISHONESTY * using an Oz number and claiming to be in Oz or spinning some story that the applicant is away from Australia for vacation/something during the call from potential recruiter, is a *BIG NO NO* please don't treat recruiters as some "Beep Sound"


No, I'll tell you my experience and then you can draw your own conclusions. When I started applying for jobs from abroad, I was receiving calls and was giving Skype interviews. Someone told me that if I were physically present in Australia, things would be so much better! My experience is that a local number (on its own) didn't give the boost that I expected it would. What did make a difference then, you would ask?. I will tell you that they were my IT certifications. That seemed to have a positive effect on job search. During this year, I had to make a few trips abroad and they all used to call me on my local roaming number and didn't seem to mind. I just told them, I took a break and will be back soon.

You can be honest with them. However, if one doesn't have the courage, then they can tell a white lie. Personally, I don't think that this is such a big issue. Moreover, everyone understands the difficulty of spending money and not having a job. Just tell them, you are wrapping up your old job or whatever (it could be true). No one is going to black list you for saying that. That's definitely not my experience here. You could even have a Skype "local" number. That works too.

I never treat anyone like "beep sounds" (?!). Most of the recruiters here are my best friends now.  Such a treat to talk to Aussies here, especially the cute ones. Hahahaahaaaa. 



nicemathan said:


> this thread's starters updates are promoting and oozing with negativity


No, that's not the intent of this thread.


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Ajeet said:


> Thank you so very much for your posts. Positive people will always find a way to be successful and vice-versa.
> 
> As I keep saying - no country is perfect but to raise a family Australia is the best!
> 
> I left USA for Australia and I am so glad, I did. Only regret is that I could have moved earlier but never gave Australia a thought. It was only after I decided that I won't wait for the Green Card for a decade, that Australia came into picture.


If mere positivity would have made you successful, then you could have stayed in USA and with your positivity turned that stay into a success story. Let's not over simplify matters with our under thinking. 

I'm really glad and happy that it worked out for you here, though; no doubt about that.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Marianne_ said:


> Of course this post does not have any sense to me, I used to live 1.5 years in Sydney, always had a job and because that, I need to encourage people to go to Australia??


So you really can't relate with this thread.



Marianne_ said:


> let other people do whatever they want, they deserve to try to find that kind of thing by they own way just like you did it, not because one guy told something bad, don't you think?


Yes, its up to them. I really can't force anyone against their will. The thread is to provide a view of both sides of the coin, and let the readers decide for themselves if they want to make the jump or not. I detailed this clearly in my previous answer to you.



Marianne_ said:


> If you are not happy in Australia for your bad situation you should back home


Firstly, with all due respect, you didn't issue me my visa, so you can't ask me to go back.  Secondly, why would I go back after spending a TON of money on PR, a TON of money to stay here and TIME, ENERGY & RESOURCES for the past one year looking for a job? The fault is not mine. I refuse to admit that. I am going to write to the government authorities in the new year and gauge their response.


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## nicemathan (May 29, 2013)

So, you miss only SEX from your spouse, is it 

I can very well understand you are going through rough phase. This too shall pass-by.

Buddy, the SIM-Roaming theory after validation and claiming to be in Oz, I personally don't support. As per me, that's *DISHONESTY*, as simple as that. 

*Doing fulltime job hunt only is tedious, on top of it, if someone were to follow the SIM-Roaming theory, factors to be included, 
Time-Zone difference, 
Your current job, 
Logistics of flying to Oz in a very short notice for interview, 
What will you do for short stay accommodation 
Saying some lie or truth or convince your current manager for leave approval
and 
Last but not least many people are very poor in lie-ing.*
Also you are projecting that *Muslims *are not welcomed in Oz and saying in the coming years they will face difficulties is *plain negativity and fear mongering* against a particular sect of people. 

*What you are currently doing is human tendency, buddy* When someone gets campus interview from one country and flies out of the country, he/she will not complaint about ground situations in origin country. *People vent out anger only when they face rough phase.*

I am not going to post some copied link from here and there. My sample size is known contacts, which I have stated already. 

Some people will post Taxi driver's protest at the same time ignore the student protests, and boast their family education credits. The point is if everything was perfect, then world will be called UTOPIA  without borders.

By the way *taxi driving or flipping burger is not at all inferior*, as long as *cheating or dishonestly* or whatever jargon, is not involved. I am not asking you to try something secondary for cash inflow.

IT industry is fine based on my sample size, the right candidates do get job, sooner or later. Again I am not going to post some economic or financial or policy link from internet. 

*Good Old Days!!!!! * *That's usually said by armchair intellectuals*

*Yesterday is history
Tomorrow is mystery 
Today is GIFT, that's why its also called as PRESENT *

Live in the present and times will change for good. Try to do everything possible within your scope to the best.

I can give more situations, quotes, suggestions, and directions, *Trust me you will not listen as you are going through rough phase.* 

It will be yet another *Beating around the bush or Running in circles, session.* So, I will restraint from it.

New year is around the corner, if this is your first new year's eve in Sydney, don't miss the fireworks at the *Coat Hanger.*

Try to enter the viewing area before 1100, with lot of sun screen, coolers, and umbrella.

*All the best for your job hunt next year.*



Simon Matthew said:


> Yes, I miss sex very much. Hahahaahaaaa.  More importantly I miss playing with my kids and snuggling up to them whenever I could. I won't deny that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Bbay2Oz (May 10, 2010)

Simon Matthew said:


> We can find the email addresses of our state/federal departments and send them an email. There is no harm in that. Let our voices (polite, asking for fairness) convert themselves into numbers and statistics. When the numbers are big enough, they will automatically attract the attention from the responsible government departments. There is nothing to lose, but much to gain.


At the end of the day it is votes that matter to these less than useful politicians. So unless you're citizens and form a sizeable vote bank they won't give a hoot. 



Simon Matthew said:


> If mere positivity would have made you successful, then you could have stayed in USA and with your positivity turned that stay into a success story. Let's not over simplify matters with our under thinking.


Isn't it obvious, why?!



Simon Matthew said:


> become a tax driver even before being here?.


Taxi drivers are netting well below minimum wage (well under $17 an hour). 

May be I ought to be selfish, start lying through my teeth and only post what 99% of the posters in this thread would like to read. 

Jobs are plentiful, you can become filthy rich driving taxis or Uber, all it takes is a positive mind set to succeed, you will eventually find a job in IT because the economy is doing very well, don't believe the copied links from here and there, unemployment is actually very low thanks to our wise and honest politicians, don't believe all the negative posts because they don't want you to enjoy Australia after having enjoyed themselves, all my friends found high paying jobs within a month of arriving due to their positivity, interest rates are so low, you can easily afford to rent in Sydney or even buy a house with just the family tax benefits.


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## gonnabeexpat (Jun 28, 2015)

nicemathan said:


> So, you miss only SEX from your spouse, is it
> 
> I can very well understand you are going through rough phase. This too shall pass-by.
> 
> ...


 

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## hari_it_ram (Jun 30, 2013)

Bro,

Very good response and please don't spend time on this matter anymore, it's not worth. If you say you are trying for Canada PR, they will come up with new thread "Think before you move to Canada". 

It`s pretty clear from the discussion that they are not comfortable with new immigrates. Previously it was local vs immigrates, these days it's old immigrates vs new one.



nicemathan said:


> So, you miss only SEX from your spouse, is it
> 
> I can very well understand you are going through rough phase. This too shall pass-by.
> 
> ...


----------



## Bbay2Oz (May 10, 2010)

Old immigrants would LOVE for new immigrants to come. 

More immigrants = higher and higher property prices, cheap labour and best of all their taxes will help fund old immigrant's future pensions. Welcome with open arms.


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## Marianne_ (Dec 19, 2016)

hari_it_ram said:


> Bro,
> 
> Very good response and please don't spend time on this matter anymore, it's not worth. If you say you are trying for Canada PR, they will come up with new thread "Think before you move to Canada".
> 
> It`s pretty clear from the discussion that they are not comfortable with new immigrates. Previously it was local vs immigrates, these days it's old immigrates vs new one.


Indeed!!

I'm tired of this thread, is the same the whole time and here anybody is going to find relevant information to immigrate to Australia, this is only one thought of one big country, so... happy new year everybody! I hope the new year brings health, well-being, work and so much love.


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> The answer is simple. Do you want to continue to work as a software engineer? That may not be guaranteed here. What is the intention of your migration? If you could shed a bit more light, then I can advise accordingly.
> 
> Yes, the visa money is huge; there is no denying that.


My plan currently is that I want to move to an onsite country and earn money. If I get Aus PR, then I would initially move alone to Aus and then may be after 1 year, if I find a job based on which I can sustain my family there, then I will bring my family to Aus. As of now, my plan is to stay in Aus for nearly say 5 years and then come back to India and I do not have any plan to settle in Aus currently. But who knows, may be in future, based on how things proceed, I might decide to settle in Aus. But in my old age, I would love to come back to my lovely country India.
If I will not get Aus PR, then I will try for another country, as the main objective currently for me to move to a foreign country is to earn money.


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## HamzaOZ (Oct 17, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> Thanks for summing it up in a mature manner.  I also have one more point to say. We really don't need to be on the backfoot here. There is a general perception that PR holders don't have a voice or cannot complain about the treatment meted out to them. That is WRONG. We have paid for our PR visa, which means we DO HAVE RIGHTS that are ABOVE A SPONSORSHIP visa. How, you may ask? Simple. A PR is a MUTUAL AGREEMENT for both the aspirer and the host nation to play a pivotal role in the development of the country.
> 
> To decide that we should not question this injustice (especially with what's happening in the job market), is sadly DUE TO OUR OWN ASIAN MINDSET. Anyone who has worked in the international arena knows that if you put your request ACROSS POLITELY, WITH REASON and WITHOUT PREJUDICE, it will be Welcomed. This is also attested by the fact of cyberkidz post where he went to the "Department of human services/employment" and made a note of his displeasure.
> 
> ...


Thanks Simon for your thread and appreciate your honesty in sharing your experience. Ok I am an IT Professional (software testing) and do understand the difficulty for IT professionals to grant a job but what are your advice for an alternative path for obtaining an income source in Australia?

I am thinking out loud and sharing the following options (maybe short term/temporary plans):

1- Network with Australian recruiters (even from offshore) to start injecting your presence in Australia.
2- Network with Aussies and begin integrating yourself in the Australian society even if you are still offshore (check with point 3 below)
3- Consider turning your hobbies into business (for me I play music) or freelancing online jobs, so maybe that would work and also enable you to network with like minded Aussies.
4- Considering starting a small business with the support of relatives/friends and totally move away from IT (if necessary) 
5- Apply for blue collar jobs...yes as you mentioned this is stealing a job from another qualified local but at the end you need to survive.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

HamzaOZ said:


> 5- Apply for blue collar jobs...yes as you mentioned this is stealing a job from another qualified local but at the end you need to survive.


there is no such thing as "stealing" a job. People choose you over someone else for a reason. No one "steals" jobs .....


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## HamzaOZ (Oct 17, 2014)

TheExpatriate said:


> there is no such thing as "stealing" a job. People choose you over someone else for a reason. No one "steals" jobs .....


Yes agree but I guess that term is used often by locals.


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## TheExpatriate (Feb 7, 2014)

HamzaOZ said:


> Yes agree but I guess that term is used often by locals.


Then we must shy away from using it .... Using it reinforces its negative connotation.

Also "locals" is a GCC term that I dislike as well.... Local here means someone who lives around the same area regardless of their national origin or visa situation.


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## FFacs (Jul 6, 2016)

misecmisc said:


> My plan currently is that I want to move to an onsite country and earn money. If I get Aus PR, then I would initially move alone to Aus and then may be after 1 year, if I find a job based on which I can sustain my family there, then I will bring my family to Aus. As of now, my plan is to stay in Aus for nearly say 5 years and then come back to India and I do not have any plan to settle in Aus currently. But who knows, may be in future, based on how things proceed, I might decide to settle in Aus. But in my old age, I would love to come back to my lovely country India.
> If I will not get Aus PR, then I will try for another country, as the main objective currently for me to move to a foreign country is to earn money.


Interesting intent. It's just my thinking, but I'm not so sure this is a workable plan for Australia. The cost of living is so very high there that it's likely to be a struggle to put away that income. I think retiring back in India is workable, but spending 5 years and returning with a lump sum of capital is not realistic.

People go to Australia because the lifestyle there appeals. Against that advantage you have to expect to live with less. I'd be very surprised if the relative disposable income you'd have would be higher in Australia vs India. I guess if you're willing to live an incredibly humble life in some craphole suburb eating gruel everyday, you could save a decent wedge... but that's true also in India.

Add to this that you're AUD10K down before you even set foot in the country from the Visa process, and that a few months out of work (not unrealistic) can wipe out any further savings and you've got a pretty poor strategy.

TL;DR: Spending 10 grand to move to one of the most expensive places on the planet may not be the best strategy for making quick money.


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

FFacs said:


> Interesting intent. It's just my thinking, but I'm not so sure this is a workable plan for Australia. The cost of living is so very high there that it's likely to be a struggle to put away that income. I think retiring back in India is workable, but spending 5 years and returning with a lump sum of capital is not realistic.
> 
> People go to Australia because the lifestyle there appeals. Against that advantage you have to expect to live with less. I'd be very surprised if the relative disposable income you'd have would be higher in Australia vs India. I guess if you're willing to live an incredibly humble life in some craphole suburb eating gruel everyday, you could save a decent wedge... but that's true also in India.
> 
> ...


Will the strategy of getting visa and then applying for jobs from India and then when I get a job in Aus, then only moving to Aus - how is this strategy? Is it even possible to get a job in Aus, without being physically present in Aus in SAP technology related IT jobs? For a 12 year experience SAP consultant, what can be the monthly wage which I should expect in Aus based on current trends, if you have some information on it please.
So please suggest. Thanks.


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## mnmedipa (Sep 9, 2016)

misecmisc said:


> Will the strategy of getting visa and then applying for jobs from India and then when I get a job in Aus, then only moving to Aus - how is this strategy? Is it even possible to get a job in Aus, without being physically present in Aus in SAP technology related IT jobs? For a 12 year experience SAP consultant, what can be the monthly wage which I should expect in Aus based on current trends, if you have some information on it please.
> So please suggest. Thanks.


For a 12 year sap consultant the local employee would demand nothing less than 100k a year... I feel 100k is very less though... 

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk


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## FFacs (Jul 6, 2016)

Bbay2Oz said:


> So for those who don't believe Simon and think that some immigrants “after having enjoyed Australia for a few months” now have an ulterior motive to stop other immigrants from “enjoying Australia”, here are some very hard hitting facts:
> 
> Proportion of Indian IT workers on 457 visas on rock bottom pay triples
> 
> ...


The second link contains a VERY sobering report that needs to be read by those applying for PR. I've noted before that I have concerns about the employability of many visaed applicants. The PR system is incredibly skewed towards recent grads with little or no experience and average English skills. I work internationally and can tell you, with no prejudice intended: there are TOO MANY recent grads, with poor soft skills, poor experience and degrees from distinctly average universities. 

I've taken issue with the OPs posting on another thread, but on this OP is bang-on: think twice. I don't agree with the rationale OP gives for all the advice, but he/she is clearly experiencing the effect of a problem in the migration system: Sydney and Melbourne are clearly overwhelmed with average-match IT candidates. If you're 26, graduated from a "non-prestigious" uni in India (or worse, qualified online), have 
little professional experience and struggle to hit Competent English, I think you're going to find it hard to find a job. 

If I view the PR system for IT dispassionately, it's clear it's broken. I screen resources for some of the bigger global projects, and can tell you the skills defined by ACS for SOL are ten-a-penny. The screening approach by ACS, as well as the points system fails utterly to identify the skills that I generally find are in-demand.


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## FFacs (Jul 6, 2016)

misecmisc said:


> Will the strategy of getting visa and then applying for jobs from India and then when I get a job in Aus, then only moving to Aus - how is this strategy? Is it even possible to get a job in Aus, without being physically present in Aus in SAP technology related IT jobs? For a 12 year experience SAP consultant, what can be the monthly wage which I should expect in Aus based on current trends, if you have some information on it please.
> So please suggest. Thanks.


Unless you have exceptionally rare skills you will not succeed in securing a role from overseas. Even then, it's likely not worth the risk to the recruiter, they'll settle for second best rather than risk you doing a no-show. The sell you need to make is: you could have me adding value from Monday 9am, no need to waste time with others, no need to delay, by this time next week I'll have taken care of these problems and you can get on with impressing your boss.


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

FFacs said:


> Unless you have exceptionally rare skills you will not succeed in securing a role from overseas. Even then, it's likely not worth the risk to the recruiter, they'll settle for second best rather than risk you doing a no-show. The sell you need to make is: you could have me adding value from Monday 9am, no need to waste time with others, no need to delay, by this time next week I'll have taken care of these problems and you can get on with impressing your boss.


I think the main problem which would arise is that the notice period in my current company will be 3 months and I think no Aus company would be ready to wait for me for 3 months and that too when I will be in India in those 3 months. Do you think an Aus company can wait for me for 3 months, even when those 3 months I will be physically not in Aus, but in India?
As far as my skills are concerned, I will not say that my skills are rare, but I can say that the areas in which I am currently working, is the latest in current cloud based SAP technologies.


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## Bbay2Oz (May 10, 2010)

FFacs said:


> I work internationally and can tell you, with no prejudice intended: there are TOO MANY recent grads, with poor soft skills, poor experience and degrees from distinctly average universities.
> 
> and
> 
> ...


You've hit the nail on its head. Very few immigrants from presitgious Indian universities migrate to Australia and those that do (mainly the mid to late-career ones), the appeal appears to be a more relaxed/slower paced lifestyle that Australia offers.

Young grads from the top tier universities in India don't even need to apply for jobs, they're either headhunted and have job offers even before they graduate or else start their own companies in India. They prefer to remain in India or else move on to greener pastures: major financial centres/IT hubs of the world, but definitely not Australia.

The immigrants you describe above seem to imagine that life will somehow be better than in India based on anecdotes from some of the few who've managed to find 'permanent' jobs relatively quickly here (how secure that job will be in the future remains to be seen and is a different story altogether).

Anyway the summary of this thread in a nutshell is to be fully prepared, have a lot of savings to fall back upon and always have a plan b. You cannot survive doing casual jobs especially if you have a family to support.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Due to request from both sides,not to make this thread repetitive, I wont answer to posts that have been already been replied to on this post. I do have some thoughts on this matter and will make it very brief:

- It's not pessimism to dissect matters in a clinical matter and look at the big picture and share your unbiased views on matters. That's the core of consultancy. Also, intellectual discussions are the CORE of progression and liberal thinking.
- Freedom of speech doesn't mean we need to stifle thinking and opinions of others. If people want to express their opinions, they should be able to do so freely. Just because we don't call it what it's called here, doesn't mean it isn't called what it's called here.

Having said that, I do welcome the posts from FFacs & Bbay2Oz. They are enlightening to say the least. 

There is a disconnect between the government agencies and the business community here. There is a giant push for migration, however it is not particularly welcomed by the community as a whole. There are no obvious incentives for businesses to hire new migrants (Internships are rewarded with a AU$10,000/- tax cut). There is no real assessment of the individual before the PR is granted. Basic English skills are tested, your experience is marked vaguely and translated to points, but all it does is buy you an expensive tourist visa for indefinite stay. That's it. If you are of below-par education, you'll have to wait for the system to suck you up.

Economic migration is nothing new. However, it's a two way ticket. It is. I know, its a shock to many of you, who want to be in Australia, NO MATTER WHAT, but it's the truth. The country that we are migrating to needs to acknowledge the talent of the people applying. If one is running away to escape social stigma or discrimination, then basic life survival instincts kick in and one will be happy just to be present in a progressive country. However, if you are genuinely looking to advance your career, then its an entirely different story.

The system is not perfect. One may not be able to even penetrate the self-protective measures in place to get integrated into the society. A PR is a big decision. If the primary applicant is not going to give it EVERYTHING, that resentment will carry over to the second generation. That's a very controversial statement and not something that particularly pertains to Indians, but its some knowledge you can use if you feel it's pertinent to you. There is NO sure shot system to find a job here. Some factors help some, but overall, you have to wait for the system to absorb you. 

Again, a PR is a big decision. If you're intent is to just make more money, then a PR is a needless way to do so. You're best bet is to get into a MNC and apply for on-site opportunities. Hope this helps.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

misecmisc said:


> I think the main problem which would arise is that the notice period in my current company will be 3 months and I think no Aus company would be ready to wait for me for 3 months and that too when I will be in India in those 3 months. Do you think an Aus company can wait for me for 3 months, even when those 3 months I will be physically not in Aus, but in India?
> As far as my skills are concerned, I will not say that my skills are rare, but I can say that the areas in which I am currently working, is the latest in current cloud based SAP technologies.


You are looking for a job as a CONSULTANT. If you have a thick Indian accent and you haven't worked in an international environment communicating with people from different backgrounds, it will be very difficult for you to land a job. In your case, a 3 month notice period will be hard to implement. You will have to be prepared to sever ties with your company citing personal reasons and leave immediately if you were to land a job performing a remote search.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Bbay2Oz said:


> The immigrants you describe above seem to imagine that life will somehow be better than in India based on anecdotes from some of the few who've managed to find 'permanent' jobs relatively quickly here (how secure that job will be in the future remains to be seen and is a different story altogether).


That's a really good point and something that is not discussed much too. People don't want to talk about these things. Why not? This is quite baffling. 



Bbay2Oz said:


> Anyway the summary of this thread in a nutshell is to be fully prepared, have a lot of savings to fall back upon and always have a plan b. You cannot survive doing casual jobs especially if you have a family to support.


Why would you want to do casual jobs in the first place? Also, I remember when I was put in software testing for a short period during the early stages of my career, I felt like killing myself. I asked my manager: "Do you want a highly qualified IT engineer (who graduated from a good university) to sit and manually test websites? I don't want to sit and do this job. Either move me or accept my resignation." Needless to say, at that time, I was told that campus recruits could not expect much better; but I fought the system then and I won. If I had just sat on my fat arse and did NOTHING, then I would have been disillusioned during the first year of my career and given up on being in the SOFTWARE field. They trained me in MAINFRAME, COBOL, FOXPRO etc., and put me in MANUAL testing!! They were out of their ****ing minds. Their rationale: They needed "resources" for manual testing. It was as simple as that. The pay was good(it was standard among all campus recruits) , but job satisfaction goes beyond a good pay.

If you don't fight the system, nothing will change. Also, I've been here for 9 months. What job can compensate me for the 9 months of unemployment and drain in savings? Will such a condition ever exist? Also, what should an aspiring migrant look for in a country. Just a job? Sure it eases a lot of pain points, but is it really the only thing we are aspiring for? Why would I move to NT? Where the temperatures vary like the Sahara Desert? My dream conditions are :
- A climate that's neither too hot nor cold.
- A tolerant society
- A fulfilling job [It's different from a highly paid one or even a high profile job]
- Security for my family and loved ones.
- Complete integration into the country where I plan to live. 

The system brought me here, claimed that it NEEDED me, so it has a responsibility to absorb me in the PROPER MANNER. That's my thinking. Is it too intellectually high? I don't think so. If it didn't need me, then it shouldn't have assessed my Skills. The system should have just done a PCC and a Medical check and then issued me a PR.


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## IndigoKKing (Jul 31, 2014)

There's a funny scene in Sacha Baron Cohen's movie The Dictator (2012). Fictional country Wadiya's former top nuclear scientist Nadal, now an exile, tells the Dictator that he's very happy in America and doesn't want to go back to being the top nuclear scientist in Wadiya.

The Dictator asks, 'what do you do here?'

Nadal says, 'Basically I wipe the screens on laptops.'

The Dictator says appreciatively, 'Wow, you're living the American dream!'

If you want to get out of Wadiya, you gotta clean the laptop screens for a job.

In Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you'll see that most people in the first world don't worry a lot about the bottom two rungs of physiological and safety needs. Most people in non-first world countries still worry about those two rungs. Of course, you can live in a bubble inside anywhere so if you're making enough money to stay in the bubble, you don't have to worry about the bottom rungs.

I know finding job is hard in Australia. I've been there. I know you'll go 10 years back in your career. I have. May be 15 years from now, you are still stuck in the same spot whereas your peers in your home country advanced to senior management. Absolutely possible. What do you get in return for all that sacrifice? If you spend 5 years in Australia and assimilate well, you can stop worrying about the first two rungs. Will you have the same level of opportunity as the dominant race of the land? Probably not. But that can happen even in Wadiya.

To anyone who is confused about why they want to emigrate, here's my advice. If you like Wadiya, stay there. If want to get out, for yourself and your kids, get ready to wipe the laptop screens.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

IndigoKKing said:


> To anyone who is confused about why they want to emigrate, here's my advice. If you like Wadiya, stay there. If want to get out, for yourself and your kids, get ready to wipe the laptop screens.


Thank you for the post. I won't say much here except for the fact that I completely agree with you. Do I relate to those group of people? No!. Do I empathize? Yes. I will reserve further comment in order to avoid the criticism that the thread is getting repetitive. Funnily enough, if those critics stopped asking the repetitive questions, the thread would cease to be one!


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## IndigoKKing (Jul 31, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> Thank you for the post. I won't say much here except for the fact that I completely agree with you. Do I relate to those group of people? No!. Do I empathize? Yes. I will reserve further comment in order to avoid the criticism that the thread is getting repetitive. Funnily enough, if those critics stopped asking the repetitive questions, the thread would cease to be one!


Most debates on such forums do get repetitive. Not just on the same thread. I've probably seen 3-4 similar debates since I joined in 2014. I only read the first page and the last, to be honest.

Anyway, do you live in Sydney? If you want to meet, do let me know. I live in North Parramatta and am free over weekends until the end of Jan. It'll be good to exchange stories and may be learn something from each other.


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## siva19 (Jan 21, 2014)

Passively watching this thread.

Case to case varies - 

I am totally agree getting job is very hard. Once you get the job life will be smooth but till that time it will be hard.

I was landed here in May 2015, I got my first job after 2.5 months. That job was an 8 weeks contract holiday coverage. (Accommodation & with Car) . I got my second job within 10 days , again that was contract job for few months , then offered me full-time permanent position from the same employer.

I just brought 6k AUD, within this I spent 960$ AUD for my driving license. Most of my Network opening / job profile asked driving license. Finally I was ran out of money so I done lots adhoc jobs like 4Hours, unloading containers (2-3 hours job), construction jobs (I have White card , safety boots, high vis jacket).

I am a Network Engineer, here they are expecting all rounder but I was working in few domain when I was in India. 

Still I know few of them struggling to get jobs here. ( Person 1 - 13+ years experience in Networking, still no luck, now he is working in Manufacturing unit but he is making 4K per month)

Person 2 - He is searching job since May 2016, 10+ years experience in IT Operations., Now he also doing part time jobs (12 hour shift * 2-3 days in a week) & searching main jobs.


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## FFacs (Jul 6, 2016)

misecmisc said:


> I think the main problem which would arise is that the notice period in my current company will be 3 months and I think no Aus company would be ready to wait for me for 3 months and that too when I will be in India in those 3 months. Do you think an Aus company can wait for me for 3 months, even when those 3 months I will be physically not in Aus, but in India?
> As far as my skills are concerned, I will not say that my skills are rare, but I can say that the areas in which I am currently working, is the latest in current cloud based SAP technologies.


I've got a different profile to yourself, but also consider my skillset as in-demand, if not super-rare. I've spoken to a number of people to assess my best approach. They were all very clear: "you need to be here". Long notice periods will NOT work; people won't wait 3 months. You need to be able to interview at short notice; i.e. they'll book you in on Friday for a Monday interview. Physical presence trumps remote presence for interviews, always. The chances of cold feet are dramatically higher for those offshore - all the onshore applicant has to do is show up; the offshore needs to book flights/arrange accommodation/sort out family/sort out funds/may be lying about their visa.


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## mnmedipa (Sep 9, 2016)

Although the approach of staying in home country and trying for jobs in Australia sounds safe I agree with FFacs that physical presence is of great value...
A person who interviews in person can have more chances than someone in some other country talking through skype...
Securing a job before moving to Australia is great but it rarely happens...Getting a job is on the whole tough and if you are all in only then you have a chance...Half measures like searching from abroad dont seem to work out...Because an employee can compromise on experience and skills if he has some faith in a candidate but having faith in a candidate interviewing half way around the world is impossible...

And the toughest part which no one can control is luck...I have seen many people with exceptional profiles missing out and people with mediocre profiles getting jobs....


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

siva19 said:


> Passively watching this thread.
> 
> Case to case varies -
> 
> ...


That's a terrifying story!


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

I think reading about container job and all, so difficult..

I feel home country is better in that case !


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

mnmedipa said:


> Although the approach of staying in home country and trying for jobs in Australia sounds safe I agree with FFacs that physical presence is of great value...
> A person who interviews in person can have more chances than someone in some other country talking through skype...
> Securing a job before moving to Australia is great but it rarely happens...Getting a job is on the whole tough and if you are all in only then you have a chance...Half measures like searching from abroad dont seem to work out...Because an employee can compromise on experience and skills if he has some faith in a candidate but having faith in a candidate interviewing half way around the world is impossible...
> 
> And the toughest part which no one can control is luck...I have seen many people with exceptional profiles missing out and people with mediocre profiles getting jobs....


I still give Skype interviews even though I'm in Australia. I give interviews for jobs in Melbourne, Brisbane etc. over Skype. In fact, in Sydney some companies follow the below process:
- Phone interview (basically a pre-screening)
- Face2Face
- They might bring you in for another interview or a HR interview, if they deem it necessary.

This has been my experience and a lot of consultants agree that this is the way it is done.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

IndigoKKing said:


> Most debates on such forums do get repetitive. Not just on the same thread. I've probably seen 3-4 similar debates since I joined in 2014. I only read the first page and the last, to be honest.
> 
> Anyway, do you live in Sydney? If you want to meet, do let me know. I live in North Parramatta and am free over weekends until the end of Jan. It'll be good to exchange stories and may be learn something from each other.


I'm at Northmead.  Not here currently, though. I'm home for a break. I'll PM you when I'm back.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Giri vishnu said:


> I think reading about container job and all, so difficult..
> 
> I feel home country is better in that case !


It is really, at least it was for me. The questions are quite simple, really:

- Are you already having a comfortable life, where you are based out of?
- If no, What effort, time and energy are you willing to invest to settle here?
- If you are not planning to settle here permanently, for generations to come, is any sort of effort and break in income justified?

Moreover, all the companies are outsourcing jobs to India. There are so many varied and challenging jobs in India, it makes no sense to travel to other countries! I think we are still living in the old mindset that leaving India is the best thing to do to fatten our wallets. If you have a good job, can provide good education to our children and keep them safe, what more do we want really?


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

True, if both the partners are earning in double digits, you can live like a king here with maids, big cars and parties every week with close friends' and families..

I sometime get confused, why are we still running there, including me?


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Giri vishnu said:


> True, if both the partners are earning in double digits, you can live like a king here with maids, big cars and parties every week with close friends' and families..
> 
> I sometime get confused, why are we still running there, including me?


Because of all the glowing success stories. Whereas the truth is, the stories come from people who had very little to lose or very little to begin with it. You can forget about child care here, you can't bring your parents immediately after you come here (for various practical reasons) and if you are thinking about buying a house in Sydney, you can forget about it. The house prices are practically out of reach for new migrants.

When you are in a position of desperation and are offered a slim ray of hope, then migration is absolutely fabulous. However, if you are in a position of good fortune, looking to migrate to shake things up, then you will be sorely disappointed. No one wants to come out and say it in the beginning. You have to push them to tell you that. There are a lot of Australians here who would KILL for the way most middle class Indians live back home. That's the sad truth here.


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## naveen1224 (May 4, 2016)

Simon Matthew said:


> They trained me in MAINFRAME, COBOL, FOXPRO etc.,


I second you Mat.

I heard that finding Software jobs (like Testing, Java, etc ) is very difficult in Aus and coming to the bygone technologies like Mainframe, it might be, next to impossible to find one. By the way I am working on mainframe :brick: .


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## tanguym92 (Dec 8, 2016)

I haven´t read all posts but I agree that depending on the situation, finding a job can be difficult. I know people who found very easily and others who struggled/are still struggling (including me - but I am on a student visa so I have some other issues, I am now trying to apply for PR).

I think it depends on the sector (nurses are in high demand for example), on your origin (if you comes from UK/Ireland/USA/Canada, it may be easier) and on your local connections. And on your luck.

Local experience is important in all cases and, yes, it is a bit deceiving when we have so much experience (i have +10 years) and have to accept underpaid and/or casual jobs just to adquire this local experience and improve our chances to get a "real job". Or when our super qualification there does not worth anything here. Also, I have the impression of being overqualified is also a problem (because it is more difficult to access these simplier and not well paid jobs as a transition).

But this is part of immigrating I guess. At least I can understand now what immigrant people are going through in my own home country (I dont think this is specific to Australia, the thing specific to Australia is that they actually enable you to come saying they need you, so you have expectation).

It is a lot of investment (financial and personal) and risk, if it is worth it, that is another question. It depends on each individual history and situation. At least, this is my perception because we all have different experiences!


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

IndigoKKing said:


> To anyone who is confused about why they want to emigrate, here's my advice. If you like Wadiya, stay there. If want to get out, for yourself and your kids, get ready to wipe the laptop screens.


Well, I can't say for others. But I can say for myself. I love my country India and I have no issues living in my country. The only thing because of which I want to go to a foreign country is to earn some money, so that I can come back to India and easily spent the rest of my life doing some small business, just for the sake of doing something to pass the time. I am planning for Aus PR so that I can see if I can get a job in Aus and earn some money there. If I get Aus PR, then I would resign my current company, serve 3 months notice period and then go to Aus. Then I will stay in Aus for maximum of 3 months - if I get a job in Aus in these 3 months, then fine, otherwise I will come back to India. Lets take the worst case scenario - that in 3 months, I do not get a job in Aus and I come back to India and then in India, I will be jobless - so the question will arise - what will I get after spending so much in Aus PR visa and then spending done in 3 months Aus stay and flight tickets of going and coming back from Aus? - the answer which I will give to myself is - when I will be dying, I would say to myself that at least, I tried to get a job in foreign country and I was unsuccessful there, at least there will be no regret at that time that I did not even tried. Same thing for Aus PR visa - I would apply for it and if in case, I do not get Aus PR visa, then also at least I can say to myself that I applied, but since in my destiny it was not written to get Aus PR visa, so even though I applied, but I did not got Aus PR visa.

May be the above reasoning would seem totally illogical to somebody else, but since the above thinking seems ok to me, so the above thinking is ok for me.

May all achieve their wholesome desired goals.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

tanguym92 said:


> Local experience is important in all cases and, yes, it is a bit deceiving when we have so much experience (i have +10 years) and have to accept underpaid and/or casual jobs just to adquire this local experience and improve our chances to get a "real job". Or when our super qualification there does not worth anything here. Also, I have the impression of being overqualified is also a problem (because it is more difficult to access these simplier and not well paid jobs as a transition).
> 
> But this is part of immigrating I guess. At least I can understand now what immigrant people are going through in my own home country (I dont think this is specific to Australia, the thing specific to Australia is that they actually enable you to come saying they need you, so you have expectation).


That doesn't make it right


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

misecmisc said:


> Well, I can't say for others. But I can say for myself. I love my country India and I have no issues living in my country. The only thing because of which I want to go to a foreign country is to earn some money, so that I can come back to India and easily spent the rest of my life doing some small business, just for the sake of doing something to pass the time. I am planning for Aus PR so that I can see if I can get a job in Aus and earn some money there. If I get Aus PR, then I would resign my current company, serve 3 months notice period and then go to Aus. Then I will stay in Aus for maximum of 3 months - if I get a job in Aus in these 3 months, then fine, otherwise I will come back to India. Lets take the worst case scenario - that in 3 months, I do not get a job in Aus and I come back to India and then in India, I will be jobless - so the question will arise - what will I get after spending so much in Aus PR visa and then spending done in 3 months Aus stay and flight tickets of going and coming back from Aus? - the answer which I will give to myself is - when I will be dying, I would say to myself that at least, I tried to get a job in foreign country and I was unsuccessful there, at least there will be no regret at that time that I did not even tried. Same thing for Aus PR visa - I would apply for it and if in case, I do not get Aus PR visa, then also at least I can say to myself that I applied, but since in my destiny it was not written to get Aus PR visa, so even though I applied, but I did not got Aus PR visa.
> 
> May be the above reasoning would seem totally illogical to somebody else, but since the above thinking seems ok to me, so the above thinking is ok for me.
> 
> May all achieve their wholesome desired goals.


Well, just to add, till now in my life, I had not experienced this feeling of what it feels like to be unemployed. When I was completing my MCA, in final year, in campus placement I got my first job. Till now I have worked in 4 companies, which are in the list of top 10 companies in India. So I really don't know what it feels like to be unemployed. So currently when I think about it, I think 3 months would be more than enough for me to face that torture of waking everyday in the hope of getting a job and sleeping at night everyday with a sad face of not getting a job, and that too when all the expenses will be going from my savings till now, thereby reducing my savings and nothing coming into my pocket. After 3 months, I will accept my defeat and I will come back to India and then since I will be jobless in India, I will try to search some job in India. At least after that I would not have any regret in my life that I did not tried to get a job in a foreign country to earn more money and I will accept that in my destiny, it is written that I will not get a job in a foreign country and then after that I will try to relax my mind and try to be happy in whatever job I get in India, if I get a job in India, as after having some gap usually big companies may not even offer a job and I would have to work on contract basis. I will see what my future has in store for me. I will apply for Aus PR and if I will not get Aus PR visa, then I will say to myself that I at least tried for getting Aus PR visa, but since in my destiny, it is written that I will not get Aus PR visa, so I did not got Aus PR visa, so it will be ok with me.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

misecmisc said:


> Well, I can't say for others. But I can say for myself. I love my country India and I have no issues living in my country. The only thing because of which I want to go to a foreign country is to earn some money, so that I can come back to India and easily spent the rest of my life doing some small business, just for the sake of doing something to pass the time. I am planning for Aus PR so that I can see if I can get a job in Aus and earn some money there. If I get Aus PR, then I would resign my current company, serve 3 months notice period and then go to Aus. Then I will stay in Aus for maximum of 3 months - if I get a job in Aus in these 3 months, then fine, otherwise I will come back to India. Lets take the worst case scenario - that in 3 months, I do not get a job in Aus and I come back to India and then in India, I will be jobless - so the question will arise - what will I get after spending so much in Aus PR visa and then spending done in 3 months Aus stay and flight tickets of going and coming back from Aus? - the answer which I will give to myself is - when I will be dying, I would say to myself that at least, I tried to get a job in foreign country and I was unsuccessful there, at least there will be no regret at that time that I did not even tried. Same thing for Aus PR visa - I would apply for it and if in case, I do not get Aus PR visa, then also at least I can say to myself that I applied, but since in my destiny it was not written to get Aus PR visa, so even though I applied, but I did not got Aus PR visa.
> 
> May be the above reasoning would seem totally illogical to somebody else, but since the above thinking seems ok to me, so the above thinking is ok for me.
> 
> May all achieve their wholesome desired goals.


You are absolutely right. Your math is spot on. Look, you and I have not to had endure any discrimination in our life, we have our own land/country and by that extension, are not de-facto refugees in our own land! There are a lot of us who have/had good jobs in India and are migrating for greener pastures. That's the only reason. The question is obviously for those people, like you and I - given the chance, given that we know what we know now, is it even worth it to migrate to another country, Australia or not?

For me, its a bit more complicated, because, although I identify as an Indian, most of my life and education has been abroad and although my roots are Indian, for me transplanting myself completely into a different host country is not undoable. However, I despise having them look at me as if I NEED IT MORE THAN THEY NEED ME. That is just NOT true. If they do not recognize the talent, skill and benefits of good migrants, then they are digging their own grave. Protectionism will help in the short term, by accepting less qualified people, people with lower level of thinking; this helps secure good jobs for the locals. However, at one stage the disconnect will appear. 

That's exactly what we see with the current extremism in Australia. The second generation are not completely integrated into the society, because the first generation are FORCED to find refuge in this country by escaping their problems from where they come from. Instead of staying where they were and fighting for what is right, they take the easy route. That resentment maybe subdued in the first generation, but the second or the third generation is going to pick up on it. History has instances of this occurring all through out major settlements.

If this community were more accepting to better talent, to people with higher thinking, the integration will be much more smoother and far more successful. Today the government has announced changes to the citizenship test as an acknowledgment to this growing problem. How radical those changes will be, only time will tell. But this is definitely a problem and I believe the root cause is not being addressed. The sooner, the Australian community accepts the fact that good migration is key to ensuring their own success, the better it will quicken itself to excellence.


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## tanguym92 (Dec 8, 2016)

Simon Matthew said:


> That doesn't make it right


True! 

And thanks for your post, I found it very useful.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Such a good post and so in line with my thinking. I'll pick this thread apart so that we can have a more meaningful discussion.



misecmisc said:


> Well, just to add, till now in my life, I had not experienced this feeling of what it feels like to be unemployed. When I was completing my MCA, in final year, in campus placement I got my first job. Till now I have worked in 4 companies, which are in the list of top 10 companies in India. So I really don't know what it feels like to be unemployed.So currently when I think about it, I think 3 months would be more than enough for me to face that torture of waking everyday in the hope of getting a job and sleeping at night everyday with a sad face of not getting a job, and that too when all the expenses will be going from my savings till now, thereby reducing my savings and nothing coming into my pocket.


Yes, me too. I was employed since the day I left college. I have been unemployed once before, but that was by choice. I was fed up of working 24x7 as a Team Leader and being denied holidays and weekends. I was newly married and wanted to start my family. My head was full of gray hair and I was only 30 years old! Believe it or not, all of my gray hair has reversed itself after I left that job. That's why I say a good paying job is not necessarily a good job. However, I can tell you this. The preparation for unemployment is much greater than being unemployed. It's hard to explain, but once you go unemployed, it's sometimes such a relief. I was unemployed for 6 months before, but I'll tell you this; being unemployed is not always bad. I got to spend time with my wife and family, got my health back in track, my blood sugar was back to normal and my eyesight was naturally restored. 

However, this time, it sucked, because it's not voluntary.  But, I've been keeping busy by applying for jobs, getting my IT certifications and getting my weight under control. For those, who took the extraordinary decision to become unemployed and then come here to do odd jobs to survive must have had a pretty ****ty life to begin with. That thought always resides at the back of my mind before I lash out at someone when they write something personal. Unemployment is pretty immasculating as it makes you feel worthless. Avoid it at all costs if you can!



misecmisc said:


> After 3 months, I will accept my defeat and I will come back to India and then since I will be jobless in India, I will try to search some job in India. At least after that I would not have any regret in my life that I did not tried to get a job in a foreign country to earn more money and I will accept that in my destiny, it is written that I will not get a job in a foreign country and then after that I will try to relax my mind and try to be happy in whatever job I get in India, if I get a job in India, as after having some gap usually big companies may not even offer a job and I would have to work on contract basis. I will see what my future has in store for me. I will apply for Aus PR and if I will not get Aus PR visa, then I will say to myself that I at least tried for getting Aus PR visa, but since in my destiny, it is written that I will not get Aus PR visa, so I did not got Aus PR visa, so it will be ok with me.


That's the part I don't get. People claim that eventually, one can land a job here in Australia. Perserverance is the key to landing a job. However, logic dictates that the longer you stay away from the workplace, the less attractive you appear to a prospective employer. Also, if you have to go back to India, how do you explain the gap? In a cutthroat environment, where 99.9% of the time, its your skill and job continuity that matters, how can you justify your absence from the professional environment? Your concerns are absolutely spot on. I just don't get it. I get asked by recruiters all the time - What have you been doing here in Australia? I tell them, I'm getting my certifications in order. If I didnt have that answer, I wonder the opinion that the recruiter would have formed. Yet, here, everyone's advise is to find a casual job and fatten my bank balance or lessen the impact on my savings. How can you apply for jobs, (which anyone will tell you is a full time job in itself), prepare and attend for interviews? Mind you, I get called for a LOT OF interviews!

This defies common sense.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

tanguym92 said:


> True!
> 
> And thanks for your post, I found it very useful.


Honestly, I should thank you for your inputs. This thread is aimed at people like you, people who appreciate the truth, no matter what the price may be. People like you, who are mature enough to see both sides of the coin without screaming "LIAR", "LOSER" or worse, a "REJECT"!! More importantly people like you who are polite and kind enough to take their time out of their busy lives to make constructive inputs to this thread.

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.


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## kunsy (Jan 3, 2017)

Simon Matthew said:


> Honestly, I should thank you for your inputs. This thread is aimed at people like you, people who appreciate the truth, no matter what the price may be. People like you, who are mature enough to see both sides of the coin without screaming "LIAR", "LOSER" or worse, a "REJECT"!! More importantly people like you who are polite and kind enough to take their time out of their busy lives to make constructive inputs to this thread.
> 
> Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.


Hi Simon, 

First of all, I'd like to thank you for sharing your insights on your job hunting experience in Australia. Secondly, I'd like to understand your situation more, hence I have a few questions for you. I hope you find some time to answer these:

1. You've been a solutions architect before coming to Australia, so are you just focused on applying for the same role? If not, what other positions did you apply for exactly for the past 9 months?

2. With regards to the question above, I reckon that the solution architect role is a high risk one. From an employer's perspective, hiring a new migrant for that leadership role without reference from their Aussie peers is a risk because they do not know if whatever you've written in your CV is true or not. I assume they're contemplating if you really are what you claim to be. What are your thoughts on this standpoint?

3. You've mentioned that you've been to a lot of interviews, but failed to get through the final cut. My question is, how was your attitude and demeanor during the interview? Have you thought that maybe, just maybe, you came a bit too strong and aggressive during the interview which might cause the panel to not consider you for the post you applied?

4. What's your plan for 2017? Until when are you going to tough it out before you raise the white flag? I just want to know your thought process.

5. Have you applied for a job in the US? If your aim is to advance your career and be the best that you can be, that's where you should aim for, right?

6. Aside from the economic situation in Australia, the abuse of 457 visa issuance is one of the biggest factor in the over saturation of IT jobs similar to the situation in the US with their gripes with H1Bs, in my opinion. If this does not stop, then most of the tech jobs will just be outsourced to third world countries. Your thoughts?

Apologies for the long post. Cheers to having a healthy discussion.


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## IndigoKKing (Jul 31, 2014)

misecmisc said:


> I love my country India and I have no issues living in my country. The only thing because of which I want to go to a foreign country is to earn some money, so that I can come back to India and easily spent the rest of my life doing some small business, just for the sake of doing something to pass the time.


I appreciate the sentiment. I moved because I knew I could do better than drive 45 minutes from Bandra to Andheri, navigating the potholes and the foul-mouthed drivers. I am not very patriotic, so I found a western society where my values agree with a majority. I moved because I have no desire to live there anymore.

If all you want to do is experience a foreign country for a while and make some money in the process (like a working holiday maker would do, for example), you should give this a shot, while also exploring the 457 route.

Anyway, it's good to know what's in store so that the expectations are right. Here's what I learnt when I came here:

1. The Government of Australia isn't going to support you or ease you into the country. The way they see it, they didn't invite you to come. They'd much rather a person from UK take that Visa instead of you because that's the closest culture to Oz. They're not going to support a Brit either, but the Brits will find it easier to integrate and make local friends within the first 3 months. The Govt.'s attitude is, you applied to come here, so it's your effort that will take you forward

2. The locals won't go out of their way to support you either. They won't be grateful to you for adding to the tax revenues that will support the welfare payouts. They don't even care about such things. Most of my colleagues, well educated Aussies, didn't even know about the PR system. All they care about is, a foreign worker is competing with them and is probably undercutting salaries to deny a local's livelihood. Why should they support a foreigner who'll cheer against Australia when their home cricket team comes visiting?

3. Lot of people here think that all foreign workers come to the country illegally in boats. They don't know about the visa system and the demographic corrections that immigration is supposed to solve etc. The politicians won't correct them because it suits their politics.

4. Employers expect to recruit people who'll survive in the company for 5 years, make friends at job, connect to the locals on sports and socially. They call it 'local experience' but what they really want is someone they can go to the pub with

Btw, it's not true that immigrants can't buy homes. I have mate from India who came with $4k in pocket to Sydney. He and his wife worked for two years, saving up money and built a 3 bedroom house in the North-west this Christmas. Countless examples like this. If you're focused and know what you want, you'll get there.

Lastly, I repeat what I said. Be ready to clean the laptop screens if you want to make it. I wrote long posts about this before too. I am a CA,CS and was a Deputy General Manager at the age of 33 in a large listed company in India. When I came here, I took a temp job paying $25 ph in a finance company until I landed a permanent job. I did not do it out of desperation. I did it to relearn the dignity of labour and to make local friends and get the 'local experience'. People respect that kind of attitude here because they know you are hungry to succeed.

All the best!


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## mnmedipa (Sep 9, 2016)

I can't speak for others but I came to Australia because if I came and failed then at least I would have the satisfaction that I tried... Luckily I got a job so things turned out fine... But as I am young and don't have a family yet I could afford to take the risk of failure... 

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

If on 190, people are not able to get jobs, with the ease to move anywhere, then what bout 489, where you are bound to a particular region?


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## kannanrvskn (Aug 23, 2016)

what are the chances for civil engineers?


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## mnmedipa (Sep 9, 2016)

kannanrvskn said:


> what are the chances for civil engineers?


It is based on luck and skills ... Opportunities are few 

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk


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## kannanrvskn (Aug 23, 2016)

is it possible for u to send private message for me...and i have added u in my friends list as well @ mnmedipa


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## mnmedipa (Sep 9, 2016)

kannanrvskn said:


> is it possible for u to send private message for me...and i have added u in my friends list as well @ mnmedipa


Yup send me your queries 

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk


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## kaju (Oct 31, 2011)

kannanrvskn said:


> is it possible for u to send private message for me...and i have added u in my friends list as well @ mnmedipa



I have already sent you a private message which you can read (as I am a forum moderator) explaining that you will not be able to send or receive private messages from other members until you have made 5 good posts (that is, not just posting to increase your post count, such posts would be deleted by moderators).


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## mnmedipa (Sep 9, 2016)

There you go... Thanks kaju

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk


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## kannanrvskn (Aug 23, 2016)

@kaju,....
noted ...i ll follow the rules....


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## kannanrvskn (Aug 23, 2016)

is salary slip must for documentation....i got some salary as cash in hand....


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

IndigoKKing said:


> 1. The Government of Australia isn't going to support you or ease you into the country. The way they see it, they didn't invite you to come. They'd much rather a person from UK take that Visa instead of you because that's the closest culture to Oz. They're not going to support a Brit either, but the Brits will find it easier to integrate and make local friends within the first 3 months. The Govt.'s attitude is, you applied to come here, so it's your effort that will take you forward
> 
> 2. The locals won't go out of their way to support you either. They won't be grateful to you for adding to the tax revenues that will support the welfare payouts. They don't even care about such things. Most of my colleagues, well educated Aussies, didn't even know about the PR system. All they care about is, a foreign worker is competing with them and is probably undercutting salaries to deny a local's livelihood. Why should they support a foreigner who'll cheer against Australia when their home cricket team comes visiting?
> 
> 3. Lot of people here think that all foreign workers come to the country illegally in boats. They don't know about the visa system and the demographic corrections that immigration is supposed to solve etc. The politicians won't correct them because it suits their politics.


I think your thread suddenly took an anti-Australian tone and I personally, completely disagree with what you've written here.  
(1) I agree with the point that there is an anti-migration sentiment, but, that could also be stemming from the fact that the migrants that their ancestors have given a chance at integrating here, have really not integrated into their society? You can't blame Australians for wanting to protect themselves from having their resources drained and having to see their family unemployed? 
(2) The anti-migration sentiment does not exclude certain nationalities, especially the British. That is a very short sighted observation and very UNFAIR to the Australians.  In fact, they are fighting to establish their own identity and in the foreseeable future will detach themselves from the crown.
(3) That's completely incorrect. Condescending even. It's not cool fight discrimination with prejuidical statements. 

Again, the point of this thread is so far apart from your thinking. The intention of this thread to give an inside view of the job seeking activities. I find it unfair, that I am denied equal footing while applying for jobs, but never once has ANYONE in Australia suggested that I lower my rates! During the countless times when I put forward that suggestion, they've advised me not to do so, as it would put me at an disadvantage with other candidates. That's my experience as a job seeker here. Also, I have been made offers, but for some reason they didnt follow through with that. The job market here is different from what someone in India might experience and I strive to make that differentiation with this thread. Here, the goverment policies, the global economic climate, the interest rate cuts etc. ALL have a bearing on the job market. In India, that's simply not the case.

Also, hiring managers are not robots. They are flesh and blood and it is naive to assume that their personal views do not reflect while hiring someone they deem fit for a job. Honestly, a person's opinion can change. It is influenced, by global, local & personal experiences. Ever hear the saying: "No good deed goes unpunished"? I'm not going to dwell on this matter much, but will conclude by saying that no one likes to feel trapped in their own country. If they feel that a certain genre of people will threaten their way of life, it is completely normal for them to shut out the said group. Does that make Australians racist? ABSOLUTELY NOT.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

kunsy said:


> Hi Simon,
> 
> First of all, I'd like to thank you for sharing your insights on your job hunting experience in Australia. Secondly, I'd like to understand your situation more, hence I have a few questions for you. I hope you find some time to answer these:
> 
> Apologies for the long post. Cheers to having a healthy discussion.


Thanks Kunsy for your post. No, its not long and I really like the questions you've posed.  Like I always say, I encourage discussion and confrontation (as long as it is non-violent) and I like intellecutal exchanges that simulate thought and progress. You look like someone I can have a civilised discussion with and I always welcome that. 

I have to apologize for the delay in getting back to you. I've been quite busy today. Shopping, cleaning & cooking! 



kunsy said:


> 1. You've been a solutions architect before coming to Australia, so are you just focused on applying for the same role? If not, what other positions did you apply for exactly for the past 9 months?
> 
> 2. With regards to the question above, I reckon that the solution architect role is a high risk one. From an employer's perspective, hiring a new migrant for that leadership role without reference from their Aussie peers is a risk because they do not know if whatever you've written in your CV is true or not. I assume they're contemplating if you really are what you claim to be. What are your thoughts on this standpoint?


I apply for all sorts of roles, like Solutions Architect, Enterprise Architect, Lead Architect, Software Architect and Senior Software Developer. Honestly, I do get called for a lot of interviews, and are successful in some and have been told that I have been selected. I just don't get the offer letter. A lot of factors influence landing an offer and I guess that's something that I wasn't expecting. I also apply for jobs in all verticals



kunsy said:


> 3. You've mentioned that you've been to a lot of interviews, but failed to get through the final cut. My question is, how was your attitude and demeanor during the interview? Have you thought that maybe, just maybe, you came a bit too strong and aggressive during the interview which might cause the panel to not consider you for the post you applied?


Have I considered that it could be me? Yes, I always introspect upon the conclusion of an interview. In person, I'm not strong or aggressive. I just took that tone in this thread, so as to drive a strong impression. Personally, I've worked in a multi-cultural environment filled with Arabs (Syrian, Lebanese, Egyptians, Emiratis, Saudis, Kuwaitis, Algerian & Armenians - I'm not sure if Armenians are Arabs(?)),Iranians, Americans, Chinese, Finnish, German, Romanian, Polish, British, Pakistanis, Indians, Italians, Africans, Australian and even Russians (OK, one Russian.  ). I've been around a bit. I know enough to tune my hearing to the inundation of their tones. I get along quite well with everyone.

Also, I do not deny the fact that I wasn't a perfect fit for ALL of the jobs I interviewed. I mean, there is something called as being over-qualified. No one is going to hire you if you are over-qualified for a certain job. It's just as bad as hiring someone under qualified for the role. I don't gripe over those. I accept those as my shortcomings. 



kunsy said:


> 4. What's your plan for 2017? Until when are you going to tough it out before you raise the white flag? I just want to know your thought process.


Good question. Very very good question. Here is what I intend to do this year:
- Apply for jobs (obviously)
- Let my displeasure known about the hiring practises to a government agency.
- Use my newly obtained contacts to push for a positions
- Finish my IT certifications. 

White flag will be raised when my family says it's time to do so. See, the issue is that if I werent getting any responses or if I'm told with absolute certainity that I wont be able to land a job (or that I'm absoultely useless), then I would read the writing on the wall and give up. However, I get called for interviews, I get positive feedback, I get oh-so-close to obtaining an offer, I get called for Christmas parties and I get told that I'm perfect to eventually be an Australian. No one tells me that I'm not a perfect fit for this country or for the job market here. In fact, I get told several times a week that my resume is impressive, I'm very impressionable and I have the right attitude to succeed in this cut throat environment. 

That's the reason that prompted me to write this thread. I mean, you could be suited for a role and perfect in every sense, but still not land a job. Also, what price are you willing to pay for a job? For some, its a lot. For others, given the chance to reconsider, they wouldn't give this a second thought. Everyone asks me if I get called for interviews and when I answer in the affirmative, I get told that, that's the very best I can hope for! 



kunsy said:


> 5. Have you applied for a job in the US? If your aim is to advance your career and be the best that you can be, that's where you should aim for, right?


US is not a place I want to settle in. I don't want my kids to be a victim of mindless gun crime. Sorry, that's the plain truth and if I offended someone, please know that it was not my intention. You really cannot comprehend the stupidity of Americans with their guns till you see it with your very own eyes. Open Carry with assault rifles will make you s**t your pants!!! I kid you not, my friend. I kid you NOT! However, in all fairness, I have to say that I was never held at gun point in the US; but when I was in Damascus, I got robbed at gun point! Scary to say the least. Every time I saw a gun in the U.S., I felt the overwhelming urge to change my underwear and wipe my bum. That is NOT AN EXAGGERATION, not in the least. 



kunsy said:


> 6. Aside from the economic situation in Australia, the abuse of 457 visa issuance is one of the biggest factor in the over saturation of IT jobs similar to the situation in the US with their gripes with H1Bs, in my opinion. If this does not stop, then most of the tech jobs will just be outsourced to third world countries. Your thoughts?


Funnily enough, the 457s do not outsource jobs! They bring resources (that may or may not be qualified to perform the job in question) to Australia under company sponsorship and at cheaper rates. Imagine this. Telstra and Infosys have a service agreement. If you were to land a permanent job in Telstra as a Solutions Architect, you could earn 130k p.a. However, the same job outsourced to Infosys will only get you 100k p.a. I know this for a fact. You can ask anyone in the industry about this too. They'll openly tell you the rates. Now, you can imagine the same job, for a 457 visa holder, will be advertised internally for 70-75k! However, people internal to the organization will jump at the chance. They may not be skilled, because, let's be honest here, no one can be a 100% match for the job they are applying. Two roles with similar names can mean different things(and have different expectations) within a company. People need some sort of training or induction to get started. Even when roles that are advertise for people who can "hit the ground running", they rarely mean what they ask for. Minimum effort for integration is probably the right key word.

Back to the topic. So, in essence a 457 rorts the system by bringing in additional people here. If the 457 did not exist, then they would be forced to hire local talent (PRs or citizens or residents). Also, these people never leave. My good friend who works at a well known Indian company here in Australia, arrived here on a 457 and then applied for a PR. Needless to say he is a PR holder now. That is very very UNFAIR. The government has recognized this and are taking steps to correct this atrocity, but these things take time to correct itself.


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Giri vishnu said:


> If on 190, people are not able to get jobs, with the ease to move anywhere, then what bout 489, where you are bound to a particular region?


You already know the answer to that question. Sadly, I have nothing new to contribute to that.  Sorry.


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## cpham (May 8, 2016)

Simon,

which certifications are you planning to appear for? I have been following this thread for a while.
Even mine is a senior profile (with 15 years experience in IT Development). Wish you all the best for your job search in the new year.


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## kunsy (Jan 3, 2017)

Simon Matthew said:


> I apply for all sorts of roles, like Solutions Architect, Enterprise Architect, Lead Architect, Software Architect and Senior Software Developer. Honestly, I do get called for a lot of interviews, and are successful in some and have been told that I have been selected. I just don't get the offer letter. A lot of factors influence landing an offer and I guess that's something that I wasn't expecting. I also apply for jobs in all verticals


Thanks for the response, mate. I am now able to understand your situation after providing a more detailed account on what you've gone through. I'm really surprised that you're not offered a job as a senior dev. Are they saying you're over qualified for the position? I reckon that with your experience, you should be really qualified as a senior dev and work your way up to the solutions architect role after proving to your superiors that you have what it takes.

If I'm in your shoes, I'll be clueless on what to do. At your age (I'm assuming you're at least over 35 because of the 15 years experience you've mentioned at the beginning of this thread. Apologies, no offense meant.) you'll be over qualified for a developer role, so the most apt role for you would be the senior dev.



Simon Matthew said:


> Back to the topic. So, in essence a 457 rorts the system by bringing in additional people here. If the 457 did not exist, then they would be forced to hire local talent (PRs or citizens or residents). Also, these people never leave. My good friend who works at a well known Indian company here in Australia, arrived here on a 457 and then applied for a PR. Needless to say he is a PR holder now. That is very very UNFAIR. The government has recognized this and are taking steps to correct this atrocity, but these things take time to correct itself.


I agree with you on this one. If the government is really serious about clamping down on 457 issuance, current PRs will have an easier time looking for jobs. I'm more worried about this issue at hand after seeing what's happening now in the US and Singapore. 

I do not blame the common IT guy from a third world country who accepts these unscrupulous deals from a consulting firm who abuses the system. If someone from a third world country is offered a job with a better pay in a first world country, it'll be foolish for him/her to let it slip. 

I place the blame on the greed of the corporate business owners who only wants to shed overhead costs and the consulting firms who are willing to exploit any loopholes possible to advance their agenda. But then again, why would they care? At the end of the day, they're not breaking any laws and their wallets are getting fatter by screwing over the labor force. This is an unsustainable business model and only God know what will happen to our industry in the future.

Given all these negative things happening to our industry, migrants like me will still try their luck in Australia. As what other people had stated, it's better to try and fail rather than not trying at all.


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## mctowel (Feb 1, 2016)

Mithung said:


> Not yet. I haven't moved yet, but I will be moving soon. I am fully aware of what I am up against and I am ready to take that risk.


I so much love this post. This applies to everything one ventures in in life from marriage to relationships to businesses. Circumstances are different, opportunities come and go, situations arise. Life is a risk. No matter how hood something seems, if its not 100% good, someone must be unlucky. If 98% with skills are employed, someone must be among the 2% unemployed. We are deciding to migrate to Australia due to higher chances than in our present situation, rather than from any full assurance. Each of us is responsible for the choices we make.

__________________________________
EA Assessment: Electronics engineer 233411
B.sc 15
Age 25
PTE 20
EOI submitted 60 points 17th Dec.
ITA: ??


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## mctowel (Feb 1, 2016)

What a thread!
Its clear the op isn't reffering to my kind. I m a fresh graduate, single and leaving a much less developed country to Australia as a PR. There is no better way to start a proper life. Thank you Australia in advance.

__________________________________
EA Assessment: Electronics engineer 233411
B.sc 15
Age 25
PTE 20
EOI submitted 60 points 17th Dec.
ITA: ??


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## IndigoKKing (Jul 31, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> I think your thread suddenly took an anti-Australian tone.


False.

I'm thoroughly pro-Australian. I am setting the expectations and directly addressing the title of this post - 'Think twice before coming to Australia (why you shouldn't)'. I made a case for why you should come to Australia and what attitude makes you succeed here, based on my own experience as a citizen-in-waiting and a volunteer for an Australian political party. I absolutely love it here and would never go back.

Anyway, I have said what I have to say on this thread. It's up to you to interpret it to your benefit.

All the best! (That invitation to meet is still open btw)


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## 95995 (May 16, 2010)

Simon Matthew said:


> Not recognized in the constitution.
> 
> INDIGENOUS RECOGNITION AND CONSTITUTIONAL MYTHS - Constitutional Critique
> Why Recognition? - RECOGNISE


That does not mean they are not citizens - they most certainly are. However they were only recognised as such in the 1960s. Sadly though, indigenous Australians to generally get the short end of the stick and face many significant issues.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

cpham said:


> Simon,
> 
> which certifications are you planning to appear for? I have been following this thread for a while.
> Even mine is a senior profile (with 15 years experience in IT Development). Wish you all the best for your job search in the new year.


Certifications that matter to your field. When you say IT development, do you mean Infrastructure development or Software development?

Thanks for your wishes,


----------



## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

IndigoKKing said:


> False.
> 
> I'm thoroughly pro-Australian. I am setting the expectations and directly addressing the title of this post - 'Think twice before coming to Australia (why you shouldn't)'. I made a case for why you should come to Australia and what attitude makes you succeed here, based on my own experience as a citizen-in-waiting and a volunteer for an Australian political party. I absolutely love it here and would never go back.
> 
> Anyway, I have said what I have to say on this thread. It's up to you to interpret it to your benefit.


It's good to hear you say it.  Your last two posts sound bitter and unhinged. It probably had more to do with the way you wrote it, but I wanted to give you a chance to clarify yourself. 




IndigoKKing said:


> All the best! (That invitation to meet is still open btw)


Absolutely. As soon as I'm back. Just because we are friends doesn't mean that I have to AGREE with everything you say.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

kunsy said:


> Thanks for the response, mate. I am now able to understand your situation after providing a more detailed account on what you've gone through. I'm really surprised that you're not offered a job as a senior dev. Are they saying you're over qualified for the position? I reckon that with your experience, you should be really qualified as a senior dev and work your way up to the solutions architect role after proving to your superiors that you have what it takes.
> 
> If I'm in your shoes, I'll be clueless on what to do. At your age (I'm assuming you're at least over 35 because of the 15 years experience you've mentioned at the beginning of this thread. Apologies, no offense meant.) you'll be over qualified for a developer role, so the most apt role for you would be the senior dev.


Honestly, it's not that simple as you make it out to be. First of all, my resume has been circulated around as a Solutions Architect. Now, if I modify my resume to be a Senior Developer, that would raise eyebrows. Second, my referees will never attest to me as Senior Developer. Years ago, when I was offshore (from India)/on-site (in a developed country), there was this sudden decision to stop ALL local development and ship all development jobs to India, Egypt, China and Pakistan. I had to adapt quickly to the changing scenario and had to work into a Technical Architect role. None of my referees will stick their head out and claim that I was a Senior developer (even though I've kept touch with software development), when I was so much more than that. In fact, if I had continued in my role in my previous company, I could be looking at a Technical Manager role today. 

That's just one aspect. Another aspect is convincing the recruiter to take you as a Senior Developer. They'll obviously ask you questions like, why aren't you applying and trying as a Solutions Architect? It doesn't matter how convincingly you sell yourself, at the back of their heads, they are thinking: "This guy may not be suitable for a senior role and that self-realization has prompted him to settle for something smaller. Do I really want to hire someone I can't trust with greater responsibility in the future?" It's not as black and white as you think. My friend, who is a hiring manager at Dell told me this clearly and he (before Dell & EMC merged and hiring freeze kicked in;now due to this huge merge his job is in jeopardy because of re-structuring, lol) would always refer me to roles that were of my capability and above. His rationalization? That's what the company wants to see. A self-confident man, who believes in what he can do and can take on new challenges.

That is in line with what I've seen all along my professional life. Dress for the job you WANT, not for the job you have. Always get to office 10 minutes before your boss gets to work and leave 10 later than he does. Work as a Team, but ensure your own personal goals are achieved. Network well, be polite and take defeat graciously. However, on this forum, the advise is entirely opposite. Settle for something small, pick up boxes and see yourself as nothing. Don't speak, just accept things as they are!! How can you expect this community to accept and respect yourself, when one doesn't respect and accept him/herself?



kunsy said:


> I place the blame on the greed of the corporate business owners who only wants to shed overhead costs and the consulting firms who are willing to exploit any loopholes possible to advance their agenda. But then again, why would they care? At the end of the day, they're not breaking any laws and their wallets are getting fatter by screwing over the labor force. This is an unsustainable business model and only God know what will happen to our industry in the future.


Welcome to the world we live in. Where bank executives were paid huge bonuses even when the U.S. was reeling under a financial crisis, a crisis that we know was brought on by the banks. Capitalism pushes CEOs to increase year on year profit, so that the director board can make the shareholders happy. Year on Year, the salaries of the CEOs increases and huge bonuses are paid out without consideration for what s/he has done for the company. Where are the huge profits going to come from? When you want to pay one person(the CEO) millions of dollars more in a financial year, that money comes from the people he has sacked and from the departments he has consolidated - isn't that common sense? More jobs will be lost in the future with the advent of Cloud. IT Operations will be a thing of the past. 



kunsy said:


> I do not blame the common IT guy from a third world country who accepts these unscrupulous deals from a consulting firm who abuses the system. If someone from a third world country is offered a job with a better pay in a first world country, it'll be foolish or him/her to let it slip.


Absolutely. We expect/need our governments to take a more serious role in regulating the industry. People will take a short cut, if offered one, especially if they are encouraged to do so.



kunsy said:


> I agree with you on this one. If the government is really serious about clamping down on 457 issuance, current PRs will have an easier time looking for jobs. I'm more worried about this issue at hand after seeing what's happening now in the US and Singapore.


Ignoring the common man's plight was the #1 reason for Trump's ascension to power. I strongly believe the worst is yet to come.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

EverHopeful said:


> That does not mean they are not citizens - they most certainly are. However they were only recognised as such in the 1960s. Sadly though, indigenous Australians to generally get the short end of the stick and face many significant issues.


The point I was trying to make is that, it doesn't get much attention as say, same-sex marriage. I always thought have giving aboriginals their constitutional identity would take precedence over anything else! Also, I'm exercising my civic responsibility in this country. I'm a resident, so I have a responsibility to call it as I see it. Civic responsibility shouldn't be constrained to yelling "Tosser" or ratting out on domestic violence or spying on people with a beard at a cafe.  It goes much more than that. 

Essentially, that's what ticked me off so much when I wrote this thread. The overwhelming response to keep my mouth shut and accept things as they are. What rubbish?! Let me tell you an experience I had last month with an Australian lady. She's just retired from a hospital as a nurse and I met her while I was waiting for a bus back to my place. As it is the case, sometimes, the bus got canceled and I'm standing there waiting for the next bus (which is in another 45 minutes) with all my grocery bags. She sees me standing there (at 9:30 in the PM) and asks me if everything is alright. Right off the bat, before I can answer, she shoots me another question: "Are you new to Australia?"  Hehehehe..  She then offers to drive me to where a live and then while driving she tells me:

To be careful of guardianship laws in Australia; essentially that means that if the husband owns all the assets and he falls tremendously sick leaving the wife to take care of him and he is incapacitated, the wife will be denied access to assets and she basically will have to find other means to treat her husband while his assets sit safe and sound.

She then goes on to say:
- A lot of us don't know this, but those who do won't tell the other, because we live in a JEALOUS society.
- Be wary of everything, don't think Australia is a bed of roses
- Sometimes this country is so disgusting and that's one of the reasons why.

This is all flowing freely from her mouth, with absolutely no prodding or encouragement from my end. Does that make her a racist? Does that make her Anti-Australian? Absolutely not. She is exercising her civic rights and her civic sense to spread the message and set things right. No modern government is well equipped to deal with the current situations in the modern world with their antiquated laws(probably created a long time ago when the constitution was created) and views. Things need constant update and meticulous changes. It will not be possible if one doesn't recognize the things that need to be changed and take action to change them. The world won't change on its own, it needs encouragement to be changed.

Yes, with all older women, she sees me as a young chap who needs guidance like her own son. lol, and here I was thinking I was grown up. Hehehee..  All this is being told while she is driving her car at a breakneck speed (for that road and conditions) and it fills up with toxic fumes from the exhaust. LOL. Heehehe... She's such a firecracker!! She tells me, don't worry about the smoke, just keep the windows all the way down! hahahaa.... God bless her.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

mnmedipa said:


> It is based on luck and skills ... Opportunities are few
> 
> Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk


That's the key point here. If there are a lot of opportunities, the system will suck you up without hesitation. If there are a surplus of candidates/job seekers, the competition will be tight and regardless of your skill level, you might get left out.


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

Well it can b vice versa too;


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

mctowel said:


> I so much love this post. This applies to everything one ventures in in life from marriage to relationships to businesses. Circumstances are different, opportunities come and go, situations arise. Life is a risk. No matter how hood something seems, if its not 100% good, someone must be unlucky. If 98% with skills are employed, someone must be among the 2% unemployed. We are deciding to migrate to Australia due to higher chances than in our present situation, rather than from any full assurance. Each of us is responsible for the choices we make.


I've already put my share of hard work to get where I am. I've put in endless hours, time away from family, given my health the hit it had to take, endured back biting, had to endure whistle-blowing, had to return the favors in kind, had to kiss ass, had to study, had to take calculated risks and had to earn the respect of my peers. Am I ready to do that again?, Hell yeah! But on my terms and on EQUAL footing. 

You obviously are not at that stage yet and have a lot more to go.  I'm sure Australia will welcome you with open arms, provided you give it the respect and love it deserves.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Giri vishnu said:


> Well it can b vice versa too;


It can't be, if they deny you equal footing for a job search citing lack of "local experience".


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

I will keep it open, till I do not land there and get a job.


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## FFacs (Jul 6, 2016)

Simon Matthew said:


> Funnily enough, the 457s do not outsource jobs! They bring resources (that may or may not be qualified to perform the job in question) to Australia under company sponsorship and at cheaper rates. Imagine this. Telstra and Infosys have a service agreement. If you were to land a permanent job in Telstra as a Solutions Architect, you could earn 130k p.a. However, the same job outsourced to Infosys will only get you 100k p.a. I know this for a fact. You can ask anyone in the industry about this too. They'll openly tell you the rates. Now, you can imagine the same job, for a 457 visa holder, will be advertised internally for 70-75k! However, people internal to the organization will jump at the chance. They may not be skilled, because, let's be honest here, no one can be a 100% match for the job they are applying. Two roles with similar names can mean different things(and have different expectations) within a company. People need some sort of training or induction to get started. Even when roles that are advertise for people who can "hit the ground running", they rarely mean what they ask for. Minimum effort for integration is probably the right key word.
> 
> Back to the topic. So, in essence a 457 rorts the system by bringing in additional people here. If the 457 did not exist, then they would be forced to hire local talent (PRs or citizens or residents). Also, these people never leave. My good friend who works at a well known Indian company here in Australia, arrived here on a 457 and then applied for a PR. Needless to say he is a PR holder now. That is very very UNFAIR. The government has recognized this and are taking steps to correct this atrocity, but these things take time to correct itself.


The thing is that this doesn't work for the client. It actually really pisses them off. The sales guy is local, the service manager/PM has been onshore for a decade as is extremely well adapted. The client thinks "this could work out", pens the contract and gets a project team that are flown in overnight from offshore. I've lost count of the times I needed to play babysitter. I've even had to go and get coats for the team because they arrived with none. The first 6 months of the contract is full of misunderstandings, fragmented communications, clearly homesick team members leading to missed deliveries and broken SLAs before the client throws in the towel and starts waving round a contract. The model doesn't work. Over the past decade I've probably personally spent at least one FTE year working through official Service Improvement Plans and dealing with legal disputes. More, even, two years.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

FFacs said:


> The thing is that this doesn't work for the client. It actually really pisses them off. The sales guy is local, the service manager/PM has been onshore for a decade as is extremely well adapted. The client thinks "this could work out", pens the contract and gets a project team that are flown in overnight from offshore. I've lost count of the times I needed to play babysitter. I've even had to go and get coats for the team because they arrived with none. The first 6 months of the contract is full of misunderstandings, fragmented communications, clearly homesick team members leading to missed deliveries and broken SLAs before the client throws in the towel and starts waving round a contract. The model doesn't work. Over the past decade I've probably personally spent at least one FTE year working through official Service Improvement Plans and dealing with legal disputes. More, even, two years.


Of course it doesn't work. Your feedback is spot on.


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

Simon Matthew said:


> You are looking for a job as a CONSULTANT. If you have a thick Indian accent and you haven't worked in an international environment communicating with people from different backgrounds, it will be very difficult for you to land a job. In your case, a 3 month notice period will be hard to implement. You will have to be prepared to sever ties with your company citing personal reasons and leave immediately if you were to land a job performing a remote search.


If I say that all my 12 years of working has been in SAP technology, have worked in 4 companies nearly and all of them are in may be the top 15 companies in India, have been to onsite projects with nearly 5 months stay in Sweden, 2 months in Austria, 2 months in Finland, 5 months in Qatar, remaining projects were offshore but their clients were in USA, UK, Brazil, Japan etc, currently I am working in SAP cloud technologies specifically Ariba - then what will you suggest is there any chance for me to get any job in Aus? Please suggest. Thanks.


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

I see dedicated recruiters for SAP, hiring in Australia, so should not be a problem for you atleast..


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## ajay23888 (Dec 27, 2015)

Hi Initiator of this threat,

Sorry to say, but first time i am writing something against anyone. I have to write this because I don't feel that your motive of writing this thread would be fulfilled.

Your motive seems to be genuine and i know that you want to make people aware about job market is not so much good and all in AUSSIE by saying whole story of yours !! 

I know man, You must be genius, even i compare you with myself, I am zero as i have struggled for almost year to get 65+ in PTE so i am not claiming that i will get job there in month but at least i can say that " I will make sure to be +1 from my previous day, though i failed for getting job for 2-3 years". and you are in Aussie, You must know that " Even all time failure have also helps you somewhere"
Think about people who just have decided to migrate to Aussie, and if he look at this thread. You are not informing people, but what i feel is that people can demotivate with this thread. If you feel the same, Ask admin to delete this entire thread. and if you don't feel that, Continue with this thread. 

You must also see that "Here people are trying from several years to get GOLDEN MAIL. They failed several times, and learning from failure makes the man better...What i believe is if guy can take decision to migrate to Aussie, He will surely make the better world !! not today but for sure tomorrow !!

PLEASE DONT REPLY AS I AM NOT GOING TO SEE THIS THREAD MORE !! BRO, I HOPE YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THAT, I AM NOT AGAINST YOU BUT THIS WILL DEFINITELY DEMOTIVATE GUY BY THAT WAY THAT- A GENIUS LIKE HIM WITH 8 EACH BAND, AND WORK EXP OF WHOLE WORLD FAILED TO GET JOB THERE, I SHOULD NOT EVEN THOUGHT TO LEAVE MY OFFICE, OR EVEN A CURRENT JOB ALSO.

AGAIN SAYING, IF YOU FEEL WHAT I BELIEVE IS NOT TRUE, CONTINUE WITH THE THREAD, ELSE PLEASE DON'T WRITE ANYTHING ON THIS THREAD MORE !! PLEASE DON'T REPLY......I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND !! FULL STOP !!


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## Attentionseeker (Jan 15, 2016)

Wow! There is so much wrong with this thread. From my personal experience, I don't agree with many things. When I was coming to Australia (about 2 years ago), I read the same things on different forums. My life has totally changed in last two years. I completed my degree, got my residency and recently secured a role in the top financial institution in Australia. Yes, the costs of living is high but so is your standard of living. Please do not discourage anybody from realising their dream. Or atleast let them try. I remember I used to read horrible stuff about job market in australia, which is not bad at all.


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## oz.productguy (May 12, 2016)

That may be a good approach. If you join Sydney groups, you'll get to see a slew of messages of people needing help in finding jobs.
I don't mean to discourage anyone. The situation is similar in the US as well. 

But yes, a little homework goes a long way. 



gonnabeexpat said:


> Awesome right up. I was bitching about not getting Pr , but after reading this I think I am in no hurry. Looks like the best way to go about this is to do a validation trip and see how well does one fare before moving for good.
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

misecmisc said:


> If I say that all my 12 years of working has been in SAP technology, have worked in 4 companies nearly and all of them are in may be the top 15 companies in India, have been to onsite projects with nearly 5 months stay in Sweden, 2 months in Austria, 2 months in Finland, 5 months in Qatar, remaining projects were offshore but their clients were in USA, UK, Brazil, Japan etc, currently I am working in SAP cloud technologies specifically Ariba - then what will you suggest is there any chance for me to get any job in Aus? Please suggest. Thanks.


Look, I would say you are in a perfect position. Wait till you get your PR and put in for an internal transfer to Australia since it looks like your company doesn't have any qualms about sending you onsite. When you are here in Australia, because of your PR status, no one can stop you from looking out for other jobs here in this country. On top of that, you may never know, you could settle in the same company in Australia indefinitely.

If your company doesn't have a presence in Australia, look for other INDIAN companies that do have a presence in Australia by RESIDING IN INDIA. If they hire you and allow you to continue to work as a SAP consultant, then that's the best way forward. Its far better than discarding everything you have and coming to Australia on the vague hopes that you could be hired.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

ajay23888 said:


> Hi Initiator of this threat,
> 
> Sorry to say, but first time i am writing something against anyone. I have to write this because I don't feel that your motive of writing this thread would be fulfilled.
> 
> ...


What? 
Your post is neither here nor there.


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## Simon Matthew (Dec 12, 2016)

Attentionseeker said:


> Wow! There is so much wrong with this thread. From my personal experience, I don't agree with many things. When I was coming to Australia (about 2 years ago), I read the same things on different forums. My life has totally changed in last two years. I completed my degree, got my residency and recently secured a role in the top financial institution in Australia. Yes, the costs of living is high but so is your standard of living. Please do not discourage anybody from realising their dream. Or atleast let them try. I remember I used to read horrible stuff about job market in australia, which is not bad at all.


Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion and I can personally assure you that I didn't band everyone up here and force anyone to read or write their opinions.


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## Attentionseeker (Jan 15, 2016)

Ofcourse you're and so are others. I would suggest all those people who are thinking of migrating to Australia to take this thread as an opinion of a person who is making gross generalizations about the job market here. I have heard all these stereotypes about the job market so many types that you won't even imagine. All these points are just stereotypes created by people who are looking for find some excuses! Please don't take them seriously!


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## HamzaOZ (Oct 17, 2014)

I appreciate Simon's thread and he is just sharing his experience which I think many may or are currently facing. I do honestly believe that any hard work you do in searching for job in Australia will pay off but when it will? this is God's will. Patience and persistence is key to success. 

Now there is no use blaming Simon for negativity or such things, the question is what next? what strategy are you going to follow to secure a job? what are your plans?


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## FFacs (Jul 6, 2016)

HamzaOZ said:


> I appreciate Simon's thread and he is just sharing his experience which I think many may or are currently facing. I do honestly believe that any hard work you do in searching for job in Australia will pay off but when it will? this is God's will. Patience and persistence is key to success.
> 
> Now there is no use blaming Simon for negativity or such things, the question is what next? what strategy are you going to follow to secure a job? what are your plans?


Clearly OP is sad and angry (and fair enough too!) and yes that might flavour the thread with dark cynicism, but there are lessons to draw from the information. 

Lesson 1: Getting PR doesn't mean your skills, on a personal level, are in demand in Australia. You can either view it as dishonesty to encourage population growth, or the problem of running an industrial-scale process when the skills shortages are likely more specific. Either way visa != job. Getting the visa is a stepping stone, it isn't the biggest challenge.

Lesson 2: If you would struggle to get another job at home, there's no reason to believe you'll get a better one in Australia. 

Lesson 3: Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. There is a chance you will need to stay without a job for 12 months+. I keep seeing these people in the Victoria 190 thread hinting around the topic of lying with respect to available funds: "Are they actually going to CHECK if I have the money available. That isn't being positive; at best it's naive, at worst self-deception.

Lesson 4: Do your research. Ask around. This isn't meant to sound pessimistic, but ask if someone with your profile is really going to be in demand. Try to remove future shocks and surprises. 

To be frank, that last one especially needs attention. So many here are running the PR process without the faintest clue what the next step will be, let alone finding out if there's any realism in making a career in Australia. This isn't about raining on parades, but about making informed decisions. I've already emigrated once; it's hard. It's bloody lonely too. Give yourself the best chance of success rather than treating the goal as being to get the visa.


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## mctowel (Feb 1, 2016)

FFacs said:


> Clearly OP is sad and angry (and fair enough too!) and yes that might flavour the thread with dark cynicism, but there are lessons to draw from the information.
> 
> Lesson 1: Getting PR doesn't mean your skills, on a personal level, are in demand in Australia. You can either view it as dishonesty to encourage population growth, or the problem of running an industrial-scale process when the skills shortages are likely more specific. Either way visa != job. Getting the visa is a stepping stone, it isn't the biggest challenge.
> 
> ...


Its all subjective bro, no matter how you paint it. What you re saying is your opinion bases on your circumstances. 

About not finding jobs if its tougher in the home country, you are wrong.Not everyone is coming from US/UK.. Some are from war torn countries, some are from countries in deep recession and inflation with exponentially increasing unemployment rate. More so, in all these economic problems, some, though few still get jobs. How exactly can it be better than Australia? 

I personally feel you guys are just being negative, based on your experiences and expectations. Its not the same for everyone. Besides, many people applying for PR are not kids and have faced challenges before and are aware that life is never 100% rosy. 
Many things complained about are also challenges in our home countries and we also live with it.

Tbh, there is a lot of negativity from this thread. 

__________________________________
EA Assessment: Electronics engineer 233411
B.sc 15
Age 25
PTE 20
EOI submitted 60 points 17th Dec.
ITA: ??


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi All,
Usually in IT jobs category, do software engineers usually get permanent jobs initially, or do they get contract types of jobs first? Also for contract based work, do people first get hired in manpower outsourcing companies, or, do they start freelancing from the start? How do usually IT people(in the field of software), after landing in Aus, go about for getting their IT job started in Aus? Please suggest. Thanks.


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## kunsy (Jan 3, 2017)

misecmisc said:


> Hi All,
> Usually in IT jobs category, do software engineers usually get permanent jobs initially, or do they get contract types of jobs first? Also for contract based work, do people first get hired in manpower outsourcing companies, or, do they start freelancing from the start? How do usually IT people(in the field of software), after landing in Aus, go about for getting their IT job started in Aus? Please suggest. Thanks.


All avenues you've mentioned are possible. It all boils down to which opportunities are open when you arrive in Australia, skills you possess, and your luck. There is no definite answer for your query.

Since you mentioned you're in SAP domain, I guess freelancing is not a popular option IMO. Most SAP resources I know are working as consultants directly hired by a firm or working as a third party contractor under a consultancy's payroll.


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## FFacs (Jul 6, 2016)

mctowel said:


> Its all subjective bro, no matter how you paint it. What you re saying is your opinion bases on your circumstances.
> 
> About not finding jobs if its tougher in the home country, you are wrong.Not everyone is coming from US/UK.. Some are from war torn countries, some are from countries in deep recession and inflation with exponentially increasing unemployment rate. More so, in all these economic problems, some, though few still get jobs. How exactly can it be better than Australia?
> 
> ...


Realism is not negativity. I've not yet migrated to Australia. I'm speaking from experience of migrating to another country with low unemployment, and apparently a shortage in ICT skills. It's tough competing against the home team. Always is, always will be. You start off on the back foot. 

What I want to do is compensate for what I perceive as an unhelpful mindset on these boards. I'm not sure of its root, but there are SO many posts with a clear air of "so when are they going to give me the call?" Incredulity that skills might be assessed negatively, asking "when can I expect to get my visa" as first question rather than "is this feasible", even asking how much housing benefit will be received when they arrive (yes, really).

Your point on coming from war torn countries or similar is fair. But I was referring to the vast majority of people who are migrating from high growth LCEs who make up the vast majority of applicants. So yeah, for those coming from war zones, fair point; for 99% of applicants my point on getting a job stands. 

The key here is that a visa is *permission* to live and work, not a begging letter from a government that needs you. Some skills are in demand, this is true, but that doesn't mean that as an individual *you* will be in demand. People really have to get this straight in their heads. Maybe I'm misinterpreting a "stiff upper lip" as nonchalance and complacency, but I have to wonder. 

I'm an old guy compared to most here. I understand that everyone has faced challenges, but I see too many people unprepared. For every inquisitive poster making informed decisions there's a "I submitted my application to ACS for ###### but it turns out no-one sponsors that skill" and similar. That scares the bejesus out of me, because when I transpose that to someone just landing in their new adoptive country it's a disaster waiting to happen.

None of this is meant with negativity, just to urge caution. Sometimes the process is so exciting (in a long, drawn out, dull way) that one forgets to ask why they are doing this.


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## hari_it_ram (Jun 30, 2013)

FFacs said:


> Realism is not negativity. I've not yet migrated to Australia. I'm speaking from experience of migrating to another country with low unemployment, and apparently a shortage in ICT skills. It's tough competing against the home team. Always is, always will be. You start off on the back foot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I accept all your views even though I won't get aligned with OP way of "care for PRs'", which is fully fake and who seems to be victim of more and more PR getting into Aus.

As you mentioned, many does not even do their research, they just want to get PR and enjoy the feel that they have their PR in hand. It's really shocking that they are talking so many process in a casual and lethargic way. 

Coming back to the jobs in Aus,

I am front end developer, if I hit the keyword in Seek or LinkedIn, I usually get 100+ openings. It does not mean that I will get red carpet entry when I submit my CV, at the same time, it also does not mean that all the roles are just for hiring sake as few believe or demands "local exp" to get the offer. If one is smart enough, works in latest tech and suits the JD, they will get the deal signed.

I have been advised by many HR that "PR" will push my CV to next rounds as companies' are not really looking for 457. 
Many be fake words, no one knows. I won't believe those words just like the entire thread unless I face it in real.

It's not going to be a cake walk in a new land, if someone feels that it is, then no one can save them for their over confidence. Even though I never had any technical interview rejections in last 5 years, I would still be prepared to wait six months to get a job.

What I really don't like is,

People (not you) who say all these things about PR and jobs being hard to come, still STAYING in Aus with their family and enjoy the lifestyle, however, they want to guide other PR aspirants to stay in their respective home land and lead their "safe" life. Why can't it be vice-versa after all the failures? If I create a thread like this, first i move to my home land and advise others.

What is really stopping those guys to step out of Aus and get a job in their home land after facing all the issues. If they are not ready to come out, they should not expect others to have safe life in home land, especially who never travelled to Aus and of course who is yet to face those challenges. 

Many won't accept the scenario just because someone faced it so badly, never and ever. No one will stop driving on the highway just because someone is met with a accident and moved to coma. 

My final point is, let everyone touch the fire and realize what the real heat is, rather than articulating what is fire in thousand ways. Because, no one will get satisfied how much ever caution one gives, unless they get their feel of heat by touching it. Who knows many can lit a cigarette using a same fire just like that, which brunt the entire body for some.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Please excuse typos.


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## vipsonik1 (Aug 2, 2016)

Helpful post 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rhassan (May 24, 2016)

hari_it_ram said:


> I accept all your views even though I won't get aligned with OP way of "care for PRs'", which is fully fake and who seems to be victim of more and more PR getting into Aus.
> 
> As you mentioned, many does not even do their research, they just want to get PR and enjoy the feel that they have their PR in hand. It's really shocking that they are talking so many process in a casual and lethargic way.
> 
> ...


Exactly my thoughts mate. I 100% support OP's right to share his thoughts but all I find is negativity and contradictions in the post. 


You exactly nailed it, when you said do your research first. I have not lodged my VISA yet but i spent a year to research whether i should move or not. For six months, i collected jobs data and what sort of certifications are in demand, what is the rent in Sydney and its suburbs and things like that. I made a datasheet for everything for 6 months. 

I was told that i should have at least a year of savings to survive in Australia. I saved money for a year, started studying to re-certify my old certifications. If i don't do my research before moving to a new place and then blame its government for not financially supporting me, it's my fault, not their. 

Although OP's qualifications are impressive and I'll be glad if i even had half of them but there is a term called "over-qualified" If local experience is mandatory, maybe i'll edit my Resume to get a low skilled job, add a year or two of local experience to my Resume and then go for big ones. There are no short-cuts to the success, you only go step by step.

The main negativity, I find in this post is looking down upon odd jobs and that's the only reason which tempted me to reply. I assume OP is from south asia, and i come from same region and in our countries doing odd job is considered a taboo or shame. If i have to survive in a new country, I'll take any legal job to feed my family.

For all the people, looking to apply for PR, i'd advise to staying away from such negative posts which suggests how not to move to Australia . When i used read such posts in the start, it would kind of break my heart but then also there are success stories of different guys who went there and made it. Its all over the forums, I have around 7 friends who migrated in last 2 years, all of them struggled for few months and now they are living happily over there.

The bottom line is, do your research before moving if you think you'll find a job as soon as you land according to your skills, or you are not prepared for worse or dont have savings to survive, reconsider your decision before moving. Doing odd jobs is not a shame. Life don't have shortcuts, it takes time to be successful, its OK if it takes you few years to settle. First think twice before moving and if you do, then don't look back.


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## aghausman (May 23, 2015)

misecmisc said:


> Hi All,
> Usually in IT jobs category, do software engineers usually get permanent jobs initially, or do they get contract types of jobs first? Also for contract based work, do people first get hired in manpower outsourcing companies, or, do they start freelancing from the start? How do usually IT people(in the field of software), after landing in Aus, go about for getting their IT job started in Aus? Please suggest. Thanks.


Hi, 

In general, contractual hiring is more common for Software Devs. I was talking to an HR the other day and he was telling me that their company is willing to hire a dev on a permanent role but didn't get the grab of a decent one because working on contract is attractive for devs. Though I am not aware of the reason  but that's the way it is. 

Initially, companies hire resources on contract for three months. Once they see value in the resource, they usually move forward with them for the permanent role. I've given an interview in few organizations where they were following the same pattern.


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## aghausman (May 23, 2015)

Guys, I was actually planning to write a detailed post but couldn't able to spare much time and then I came across this post (http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...ia/1202369-my-experience-so-far-adelaide.html) 

Which is what happened to me pretty much. I got the job after one and half month of landing but those days were difficult. I was living without family, I had to do household by myself, Australian English was new and even answering a simple question was sometimes challenging and above all, my confidence was terribly shaking by employment rejections I had in those days. 

All my friends who migrated to UK / US took at least 6 months to get a decent job. Thus, I was prepared to spend another few months without a job. But that did not happen, I was lucky enough or perhaps my family was praying very hard for me that I got it before my expected period. 

That's the way it is, Australia is difficult like every new country you move. 

Good luck to all those who are looking forward to get the PR. 

Peace Out


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

@Simon Matthew: Hi, just thought of checking with you regarding how is your job search going currently? Hope you would have got a job already. All the best to you. May all sentient beings achieve their desired wholesome goals.


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## kirst.sin (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks for sharing your lil short meaningful story


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## HarishNair2015 (Feb 23, 2015)

I do agree with original poster. Prior to applying PR while going through this forum, i always read such posts as irritating posts from people who didnt get the job they wanted to get and hence trying to spread hoax news and scare away others away from coming to australia. I'm among those few migrants who got an early break since arriving. I must say i didn't research well enough on job front prior to coming to australia(was merely looking at count of jobs in seek etc). However, even after getting the intial break , i never felt completely settled even after an year now...Clearly i was doing very well before coming here. Now i have spent an year doing worse roles taking a lower salary. Clearly there is a saturation of IT employees in sydney and melbourne now(i'm talking about common skills like java, db , .net etc etc). However if you belong to top category(say big data/aws etc etc) with niche skills, it will be cake walk for you.. For others competition is too high and most jobs usually end with 50 + applicants.. So your chances of even getting an interview is slim. There is a clear shortage of job creation vs job seekers in the market , due to the high contracting scenario in sydney and melbourne(most contractors will be looking for jobs while they are working). 

It is about time 457 visas are dealt with properly by Oz govt otherwise there will be lot of migrants temporarily arriving as PR and going back sooner than expected which begs the question on why PR is provided as a skilled visa if they are hiring 457 holders.. 

Unless some action is taken, i doubt this situation will change and economy not looking great ahead, some drastic measures are required soon.

Bottomline is think carefully before migrating .. research on your field opportunities (from someone you know here) and get a grasp of amount of people in this field here (recruiters will know this info).. unless otherwise thinking that getting IT jobs are easy is a mere myth these days .. and be prepared to slog like crazy and work for lesser pay for few yrs.. so if you are well settled in your homeland , you are better off not coming to struggle here..

PS: Coming from my personal experiences and the friends i have made here.. I have no intention to spread hoax news or discourage new migrants looking to come to australia..


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## commie_rick (Dec 15, 2012)

Subscribing


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## aghausman (May 23, 2015)

HarishNair2015 said:


> I do agree with original poster. Prior to applying PR while going through this forum, i always read such posts as irritating posts from people who didnt get the job they wanted to get and hence trying to spread hoax news and scare away others away from coming to australia. I'm among those few migrants who got an early break since arriving. I must say i didn't research well enough on job front prior to coming to australia(was merely looking at count of jobs in seek etc). However, even after getting the intial break , i never felt completely settled even after an year now...Clearly i was doing very well before coming here. Now i have spent an year doing worse roles taking a lower salary. Clearly there is a saturation of IT employees in sydney and melbourne now(i'm talking about common skills like java, db , .net etc etc). However if you belong to top category(say big data/aws etc etc) with niche skills, it will be cake walk for you.. For others competition is too high and most jobs usually end with 50 + applicants.. So your chances of even getting an interview is slim. There is a clear shortage of job creation vs job seekers in the market , due to the high contracting scenario in sydney and melbourne(most contractors will be looking for jobs while they are working).
> 
> It is about time 457 visas are dealt with properly by Oz govt otherwise there will be lot of migrants temporarily arriving as PR and going back sooner than expected which begs the question on why PR is provided as a skilled visa if they are hiring 457 holders..
> 
> ...



Though I agree with most of what my friend has mentioned but one should expect to face challenges after coming to a new place. Migration is a big decision regardless of what country you are migrating to, it's not going to be a cake walk. 

I think it would be unjustified to single point Australia for finding first-break. It's equally challenging everywhere else, even in your homeland. Remember, the first job hunting you did after passing your degree. You went through long interviews and difficult exams many times to secure a low salary job. Similarly, you have to get your first break here too. 

I rarely know anyone, who is working here in the same position he used to work in his country. I too had to take some steps back, but as @HarishNair2015 said, I was very well aware of that.


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

aghausman said:


> Though I agree with most of what my friend has mentioned but one should expect to face challenges after coming to a new place. Migration is a big decision regardless of what country you are migrating to, it's not going to be a cake walk.
> 
> I think it would be unjustified to single point Australia for finding first-break. It's equally challenging everywhere else, even in your homeland. Remember, the first job hunting you did after passing your degree. You went through long interviews and difficult exams many times to secure a low salary job. Similarly, you have to get your first break here too.
> 
> I rarely know anyone, who is working here in the same position he used to work in his country. I too had to take some steps back, but as @HarishNair2015 said, I was very well aware of that.


Well, I am planning to take the biggest risk of my life by trying to move to a foreign country to get a job there. My current company is very good and I have no issues with it. When I was completing my MCA, in the final year of MCA, I got campus placement in my first company and after that I have changed nearly 3 companies till now but it was something like I got job offer in next company and then I resigned previous company, so logically till now I have not even felt what is the feeling of being jobless. I think my job life, by God's grace, has been a cake walk for me till now and now I am planning to move to a foreign country to get a job there to earn some good money, so that I can retire soon - well this is all my planning and since future is uncertain, I don't know where my life will take me. But I am ready to take the biggest gamble in my life by leaving a well-settled life in my home country in a good company, just for the sake of earning some money and planning to retire soon. I will see where my life takes me. At the very least, at the end of my life, I will have no regret that I not even tried to get a job in a foreign country.
All the best to all of you.
May all sentient beings achieve their desired wholesome goals.


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## baokar1 (Jul 22, 2013)

misecmisc said:


> Well, I am planning to take the biggest risk of my life by trying to move to a foreign country to get a job there. My current company is very good and I have no issues with it. When I was completing my MCA, in the final year of MCA, I got campus placement in my first company and after that I have changed nearly 3 companies till now but it was something like I got job offer in next company and then I resigned previous company, so logically till now I have not even felt what is the feeling of being jobless. I think my job life, by God's grace, has been a cake walk for me till now and now I am planning to move to a foreign country to get a job there to earn some good money, so that I can retire soon - well this is all my planning and since future is uncertain, I don't know where my life will take me. But I am ready to take the biggest gamble in my life by leaving a well-settled life in my home country in a good company, just for the sake of earning some money and planning to retire soon. I will see where my life takes me. At the very least, at the end of my life, I will have no regret that I not even tried to get a job in a foreign country.
> All the best to all of you.
> May all sentient beings achieve their desired wholesome goals.


I agree to that I am also going to take that risk as I don't want to regret I never tried in my life 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi All,

I had started a new thread yesterday, seeking suggestions for next steps:
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...833-grant-may-come-next-steps-discussion.html

So request you all to also please join the above thread to share your suggestions based on your experience as to how to go about for the next steps. Thanks.


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## MnBT (Feb 28, 2017)

subscribing....


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi All,
Only due to the help of members on this forum, one task of getting PR visa got completed. Now the next major and probably the biggest task for me is getting a job in Aus.
How is the job market currently in Aus for SAP technology consultant? I may plan to resign my current company by end of this month. Since my notice period is 3 months, which would complete by June, so I may plan to go to Aus by July in this year. So is July a good month to go to Aus for searching a job? Any information here please. Thanks.


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi All,
Today I got the third major slap on my face - welcome to reality - me. I got a chance to speak to a recruiter who hires candidates in my current company's Aus branch. I asked him if any roles for my SAP technical profile is there currently, to which he said no. Then in the call, he told me that recently there was a job opening, which is for my profile, but few days later that job opening got cancelled, but during that time he said he got nearly 60 applications from Aus and other countries, out of which when he was done selecting some good profiles, he said he was able to see 15 good candidates from Aus local itself, and this was all between the 2 to 3 days that job opening was available and it closed down due to cancellation. So he said to me to imagine the number of applications if the job opening would have remained open for say something like 2 weeks. He also told me that for my profile, there is a very tough competition as there are many candidates with my profile, who are available locally. So from a preference perspective, first a candidate available locally would be considered and then a candidate who is in a foreign country will be considered.

So long story short, the only option for me now is to resign my current company, serve 3 months notice period and then go to Aus.

I am confused and at crossroad now. My current company is very good and I do not have any issue here, but only thing which I don't like is onsite team is given much importance and respect and offshore team is treated like a labour - nobody would say this explicitly, but this main difference becomes visible when the offshore team management supports onsite team and comes to question our working, without even checking if the issue raised by onsite team is really an issue or just a made up noise in order to show that only onsite team is working and offshore team is not working.

Also I have spent much money in my 189 PR visa process. The only reason I chose to apply for my Aus PR visa was that it would help me to get a job in Aus and then I would be able to earn some good money and come back to my home country India, as I do not have any plan to settle in Aus. Whether I would settle in Aus or not, this thing I will consider after I will stay there.

So friends, what do you all suggest me over my current dilemma? Is my leaving my current company going to be the worst thing, which I would do in my life? Or, is it worth taking a risk of going to Aus? Any thoughts please suggest. Thanks.


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## dave85 (Sep 8, 2015)

misecmisc said:


> Hi All,
> Today I got the third major slap on my face - welcome to reality - me. I got a chance to speak to a recruiter who hires candidates in my current company's Aus branch. I asked him if any roles for my SAP technical profile is there currently, to which he said no. Then in the call, he told me that recently there was a job opening, which is for my profile, but few days later that job opening got cancelled, but during that time he said he got nearly 60 applications from Aus and other countries, out of which when he was done selecting some good profiles, he said he was able to see 15 good candidates from Aus local itself, and this was all between the 2 to 3 days that job opening was available and it closed down due to cancellation. So he said to me to imagine the number of applications if the job opening would have remained open for say something like 2 weeks. He also told me that for my profile, there is a very tough competition as there are many candidates with my profile, who are available locally. So from a preference perspective, first a candidate available locally would be considered and then a candidate who is in a foreign country will be considered.
> 
> So long story short, the only option for me now is to resign my current company, serve 3 months notice period and then go to Aus.
> ...


Do you have enough savings to last for 6 months in Australia, including rent, living expenses, transport, etc?

Otherwise, just continue working and save up enough money before making the move to Australia.


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

I agree with Dave, either have enough savings/ house or support from family. In case God forbid, things do not go as planned in Aust, atleast you have a peace of mind !!


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## aghausman (May 23, 2015)

misecmisc said:


> Hi All,
> Today I got the third major slap on my face - welcome to reality - me. I got a chance to speak to a recruiter who hires candidates in my current company's Aus branch. I asked him if any roles for my SAP technical profile is there currently, to which he said no. Then in the call, he told me that recently there was a job opening, which is for my profile, but few days later that job opening got cancelled, but during that time he said he got nearly 60 applications from Aus and other countries, out of which when he was done selecting some good profiles, he said he was able to see 15 good candidates from Aus local itself, and this was all between the 2 to 3 days that job opening was available and it closed down due to cancellation. So he said to me to imagine the number of applications if the job opening would have remained open for say something like 2 weeks. He also told me that for my profile, there is a very tough competition as there are many candidates with my profile, who are available locally. So from a preference perspective, first a candidate available locally would be considered and then a candidate who is in a foreign country will be considered.
> 
> So long story short, the only option for me now is to resign my current company, serve 3 months notice period and then go to Aus.
> ...



Hi, 

I don't want to discourage you, but who suggest you to look for a job when you are overseas. You are doing it all wrong man, though you are still lucky to get a call from recruiters. 

Australia is a ruthless market, recruiters don't bless you with their gazes unless they became familiar with your resume. There are many genius people around, some of them are already here and some of them are planning to be here. I think you would be very lucky if a company wouldn't able to find a human resource similar to your profile. 

Many of such people took the risk of their lifetime, put their hard earned savings on the stake and came here to secure a job. I think if you are not comfortable with this risk, please don't come. 

But if you have spent a lot of money on securing 189, I would prefer you to take a recreational leave from your work and come here to spend vacations with your family. You could also look for the work and study the IT industry here. God will if you able to secure a job here, you can continue otherwise you can go back to where you came from.


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

dave85 said:


> Do you have enough savings to last for 6 months in Australia, including rent, living expenses, transport, etc?
> 
> Otherwise, just continue working and save up enough money before making the move to Australia.


Hi friend, well since I have already invested a lot of money in my 189 visa application process and considering 1500AUD per month, by God's grace I have funds to sustain me for 6 months in Aus, so few days back I have thought that I will resign my current company may be in coming few days, then serve 3 months notice period here and then go to Aus to search for a job. I am planning to go to Melbourne. I will stay in Aus for 6 months and try to find a job there. If even after 6 months, I would not be able to get any job in Aus in my field of working, then I would accept my defeat and then I would come back to my home country India. Then I will see what options I have in India at that stage. Wish me luck guys, as only because of your wishes, shall I be able to get a job in Aus. I will see where my life takes me and what my future has in store for me. I will try to keep you all updated as to how my life progresses. My complete Aus PR journey is happening only because of you all friends on this website and not because of me. Thanks to all of you on this website for helping me and giving me moral support.


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

Refrain the use of word defeat, just say- "You will get a job'' and outshine..


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## Mannath (Dec 13, 2016)

Hi All,

I have a question. I have submitted my EOI on March 1st, 2017 with 65 points for job code 261313. 

In the last round of invitation i.e March 1st,2017 the date of effect for job code is 29/01/2017 with still 914 occupation ceiling left.

Considering the next two-three rounds of invitations and my job code and the occupation ceiling left, could you people suggest whether I can get an invitation before the remaining ceilings are filled? If yes, when can I expect the invitation? 

Thanks,
Pradeep


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## sam2206 (Mar 7, 2017)

misecmisc said:


> Hi friend, well since I have already invested a lot of money in my 189 visa application process and considering 1500AUD per month, by God's grace I have funds to sustain me for 6 months in Aus, so few days back I have thought that I will resign my current company may be in coming few days, then serve 3 months notice period here and then go to Aus to search for a job. I am planning to go to Melbourne. I will stay in Aus for 6 months and try to find a job there. If even after 6 months, I would not be able to get any job in Aus in my field of working, then I would accept my defeat and then I would come back to my home country India. Then I will see what options I have in India at that stage. Wish me luck guys, as only because of your wishes, shall I be able to get a job in Aus. I will see where my life takes me and what my future has in store for me. I will try to keep you all updated as to how my life progresses. My complete Aus PR journey is happening only because of you all friends on this website and not because of me. Thanks to all of you on this website for helping me and giving me moral support.


Why don't u take the advice in the original post.. go to Australia for a holiday, get a phone number and put it on international roaming and continue with your job.. I understand the desire to move to Australia and also that you have invested a lot of money in the PR, but is it worth moving there just for the heck of moving, without any surety of a job and when the market is already tough.. go there, so that your visa is validated, meet a few recruiters, and come back and continue looking.. why quit your job, specially when you are satisfied in it.. the opportunity to move there will come, if you keep trying.. but don't need to be brash.. that's my 2 cents..

Good luck buddy..


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## carpenterrn (Feb 5, 2017)

Very interesting thread, with a lot of valid points. I would just add, for those who may be unaware, that your Australian PR allows you to fly to New Zealand and become an instant resident there, with full work rights. Not commenting on the job market there, just stating that there are always options.


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

sam2206 said:


> Why don't u take the advice in the original post.. go to Australia for a holiday, get a phone number and put it on international roaming and continue with your job.. I understand the desire to move to Australia and also that you have invested a lot of money in the PR, but is it worth moving there just for the heck of moving, without any surety of a job and when the market is already tough.. go there, so that your visa is validated, meet a few recruiters, and come back and continue looking.. why quit your job, specially when you are satisfied in it.. the opportunity to move there will come, if you keep trying.. but don't need to be brash.. that's my 2 cents..
> 
> Good luck buddy..


I think you are referring to the advice in the above post by @aghausman - just copy-pasting his reply so that all information is in one post, so his reply was:


aghausman said:


> But if you have spent a lot of money on securing 189, I would prefer you to take a recreational leave from your work and come here to spend vacations with your family. You could also look for the work and study the IT industry here. God will if you able to secure a job here, you can continue otherwise you can go back to where you came from.


Now let me analyze these 2 suggestions, which are both similar, but have a slight difference. The suggestion from @aghausman was - I take a leave of say 2 to 3 months from my current company, go to Aus, search job there and if after these 2 to 3 months, I would not be able to get a job in Aus, then I can come back and rejoin my current company. @aghausman - please correct me if my understanding of your suggestion is incorrect here. If my understanding here is correct, then there is one point here, which is getting overlooked - if i would be able to get a job in Aus within 2 to 3 months, then what - the new company is not going to give me 3 months leave so that I can come back to India, serve notice period of my current company and then go to Aus to join the new company - as I don't think the new company in Aus, which I will be joining would be immediately giving me leave and that too for 3 months. The other option is that after I get a new job in Aus in 2 to 3 months, then I just join the new company in Aus and not come back to India and so become absconding in my current company - this I will not do in any circumstance because my current company is a very good well-known MNC through out the world and I don't want to get a bad name of 'Should not be hired again' in my current company because of me becoming absconding from my current job and also who knows what adverse effect it may have in my future job search in Aus.

Now coming to @sam2206 suggestion - your suggestion is to take say a 1 week leave, go to Aus, get a mobile number of Aus, put it on international roaming, come back to India, continue my current job and in the meanwhile try searching for job online from India using my Aus mobile number - But the thing is if I get a job say from India using my Aus mobile number, then also in my current company there will be 3 months notice period, which I would need to serve - So do you think any Aus company would wait for me, who is currently not locally available in Aus and who would need 3 months to join them? The other option is that I get a job from India using Aus mobile number and then leave my current job and become absconding and go to Aus and join the new company - but this I would not do because of the reason I stated in my above paragraph.

If I am missing something in your suggestions, please suggest. Thanks.


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## mctowel (Feb 1, 2016)

carpenterrn said:


> Very interesting thread, with a lot of valid points. I would just add, for those who may be unaware, that your Australian PR allows you to fly to New Zealand and become an instant resident there, with full work rights. Not commenting on the job market there, just stating that there are always options.


This is good... I m going to look into the opportunity... More like 2 countries to search for job

__________________________________
EA Assessment: Electronics engineer 233411
B.sc 15
Age 25
PTE 20
EOI submitted 60 points 17th Dec.
ITA: ??


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## kartheish (Aug 24, 2016)

mctowel said:


> This is good... I m going to look into the opportunity... More like 2 countries to search for job
> 
> __________________________________
> EA Assessment: Electronics engineer 233411
> ...


Always with a positive note. Good work mctowel. 
I should say this here, I followed your advice in PTE and scored 83 overall. I did thank you in the other thread, I will do so here too.


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## mrIgor (Jun 27, 2015)

kartheish said:


> Always with a positive note. Good work mctowel.
> I should say this here, I followed your advice in PTE and scored 83 overall. I did thank you in the other thread, I will do so here too.


Hey, I'm in the verge to take PTE exam in the next 6 hours. :fingerscrossed: Please give me hot tips on Summarize written text and re-tell lecture?


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## mctowel (Feb 1, 2016)

kartheish said:


> Always with a positive note. Good work mctowel.
> I should say this here, I followed your advice in PTE and scored 83 overall. I did thank you in the other thread, I will do so here too.


Congrats man... I m happy for your success, though I didn't remember where I gave advice... Was it the long PTE writing tips I posted that helped?

__________________________________
EA Assessment: Electronics engineer 233411
B.sc 15
Age 25
PTE 20
EOI submitted 60 points 17th Dec.
ITA: ??


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi All,
Need your views/suggestions on the below advice, which I saw in another thread posted by another member. The suggestion given by that another member on this forum was:
_Another thing ..look at the job opening carefully.. see how much experience they want and prepare your resume according to that. I have 7 years of experience but got 0 jobs after putting 4 years of experience I got a good job. In short, prepare your resume strictly according to job description, trust me.. you will get job in 1 month (at least interviews..after that it depends upon you how you tackle the interviewer )_

Honestly speaking the above suggestion does not seem good to me because I think we should not lie about our work experience. So what do you all think about the above strategy - does the above strategy really works? If yes, then what can be said about the remaining years (in the above example, total 7 years experience, job requirement 4 years experience, modified CV with 4 years experience, then what to say for the remaining 3 years)? Your thoughts/advice/suggestions please suggest. Thanks.


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## Kumar2017 (Feb 18, 2017)

Any Quality Assurance (Manual and Automation Testing) resources here? Please share your experience. I am planning to apply for PR. 

I am doing some research on job sites about QA opportunities.


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## Kumar2017 (Feb 18, 2017)

aghausman said:


> Guys, I was actually planning to write a detailed post but couldn't able to spare much time and then I came across this post (http://www.expatforum.com/expats/au...ia/1202369-my-experience-so-far-adelaide.html)
> 
> Which is what happened to me pretty much. I got the job after one and half month of landing but those days were difficult. I was living without family, I had to do household by myself, Australian English was new and even answering a simple question was sometimes challenging and above all, my confidence was terribly shaking by employment rejections I had in those days.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing. 

In which field were you searching job?
Did you do odd jobs before getting your permanent job? Are odd job available surviving in Australia till you get permanent job?


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## tahanpaa (Mar 1, 2014)

Kumar2017 said:


> Thanks for sharing.
> 
> In which field were you searching job?
> Did you do odd jobs before getting your permanent job? Are odd job available surviving in Australia till you get permanent job?


Dear Mate,
Odd job is more than enough compare to your native country best job. confirmed 
Dont worry.


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## bulop (Dec 5, 2016)

why you shouldnt:
-vegemite 
-australian football
-hook turn

why you should:
-surfing
-clubbing
-banana bread (toasted with butter)


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## kartheish (Aug 24, 2016)

humbertomn said:


> Well done, mate! Congrats! I had a huge increase by taking the PTE too 3 weeks after doing IELTS which I believe had a very poor evaluation and no feedback at all. PTE is just more natural and with a big part with automated evaluation.
> 
> All the best to you


Thanks humbertomn..


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## kartheish (Aug 24, 2016)

mctowel said:


> Congrats man... I m happy for your success, though I didn't remember where I gave advice... Was it the long PTE writing tips I posted that helped?
> 
> __________________________________
> EA Assessment: Electronics engineer 233411
> ...


Yep, that is the one.


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## Rajnath27 (Dec 19, 2015)

ashishjain said:


> Chose the path of honor, loyalty and dignity is my advice. It is the men who make that choice who make the world a better place.


Hello Ashishjain,

Appreciate your Balanced views ! True it's no better in India and that's why we Indians are always lured to Greener pastures thinking that we have better value for Life outside. 

On the other hand, at the same time, I do give credit to Simon also for putting forward the Hard reality. No one is as realistic as Simon puts in his posts ! It's a warning to all those Happy go lucky kind of people to pause, introspect and to carefully make their career moves. 

Above all its destiny , Fate and whatever words from the standard English dictionary :juggle:

regards,
Raj


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## expatobe (Mar 20, 2017)

Boy this is scary, thanks Simon for you POV. I just landed a job offer and in process of filling out Visa applications :fingerscrossed:


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## Kumar2017 (Feb 18, 2017)

tahanpaa said:


> Dear Mate,
> Odd job is more than enough compare to your native country best job. confirmed
> Dont worry.


Can you please tell me what kind of odd jobs are present? How much salary will they provide?

Is it enough to sustain (2 ppl family) in Australia till you get job of your preference?


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi All,
I had resigned my current company in last week. I will plan to go to Aus by June. My future plan is - I will try to search for a job in Aus for 6 months and after that if I would not be able to get a job in Aus, then I will come back to my home country India and then I will see at that stage, i.e. after 6 months, what jobs can I get in India. I will see where my life takes me.


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

All the Best !!


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

Giri vishnu said:


> All the Best !!


Thanks for your wishes. Wish you also all the best for your future.
May all sentient beings achieve their desired wholesome goals.


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## NikhilR (Jan 2, 2017)

Hello Simon,

Was wondering - how are you doing?

Others - how are you coping with ground realities now that you're there?

Housing, education, jobs and cost of living. What is your personal situation?


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## trinkasharma (Mar 20, 2013)

I am in others.

Cost of living is high but so are the earnings. No unknowns in this regard. First jobs can be hard but education? Education for children?


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## NikhilR (Jan 2, 2017)

Children's education. Secondary schools - std V11 onwards. The better ones are in suburbs where rent is simply exorbitant.

What do you mean by high earnings? $100,000 ++ ?


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## trinkasharma (Mar 20, 2013)

NikhilR said:


> Children's education. Secondary schools - std V11 onwards. The better ones are in suburbs where rent is simply exorbitant.
> 
> What do you mean by high earnings? $100,000 ++ ?


100,000+ for a single individual is not unheard of. Many IT jobs pay this.


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## NikhilR (Jan 2, 2017)

And how many new migrants actually get this salary? I guess this will make ends meet nicely provided you are renting and not planning to buy. If not, it is a rocky road ahead. I cannot imagine half million dollar++ loans


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## trinkasharma (Mar 20, 2013)

My landlord is on 80K. He came here 2.5 years ago and bought a home in Dec 2016. Aus has 100% finance and even some substantial grant to buy the first home.

I would like add these.
Everyone should think two times before a big decision.
For changing a job in your own country think three times.
To move to a different city in your country think four times.
To move to a new country you should think five times.

Also, 80kaud PA is a good salary and not everyone gets this. But on two salaries, most couple will make more than 100,000. He was paid well in India as well (15 LPA). If your job is not in sufficient demand then just moving to Aus will not make you rich.

There are many homes for less than 400,000. Check this one

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-apartment-vic-footscray-122868674

Just because you got a permanent visa or short term visa does not mean that your entire life will change. But 100,000 for a working couple is easy.


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi All,
Update from myside: Will try to land in Melbourne by mid of July. Currently booked an initial accommodation for 1 month in Melbourne.
Yesterday I heard about 457 visa. How is this going to impact on searching for a new job for me in Aus? Any thoughts here please. Thanks.


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## trinkasharma (Mar 20, 2013)

It will help you slightly. 

457 visa has been replaced so the companies can still get staff from overseas. In fact 457 will be replaced by two visas.


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## zaback21 (Jan 18, 2017)

misecmisc said:


> Hi All,
> Update from myside: Will try to land in Melbourne by mid of July. Currently booked an initial accommodation for 1 month in Melbourne.
> Yesterday I heard about 457 visa. How is this going to impact on searching for a new job for me in Aus? Any thoughts here please. Thanks.


It will help you. Less 457 guys, more jobs for PR like you !


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## expatobe (Mar 20, 2017)

misecmisc said:


> Currently booked an initial accommodation for 1 month in Melbourne.


Hi, how/where did you book initial accommodation and how much did it cost you if you don't mind? Thanks!


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## Bhajjaji (Jan 16, 2017)

BH
Yes, we always need to see the other half of the cup!

So, for all, please continue shedding more lights about real Australia. So we be more ready 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## american_desi (Feb 27, 2017)

this may be an obvious observation, but why would "developer/programmer/IT skills" be in skilled immigration shortage list if there are no jobs?

I am sure the govt is doing their due diligence to actually find jobs companies are unable to fill and come up with the Short term/medium long term skilled list.

Unless we are willing to pave ways for conspiracy theories that somehow govt is trying to milk money from immigrants and screw them, something doesn't add up!


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi All,
How is the job market currently in Aus for Software Engineers, specifically in SAP technology, if someone has information on it? How difficult is it to get even an interview call for a job posting, if a candidate does not have any local work experience? Any information here please. Thanks.
I read about a strategy someone suggested in another thread - to get an Aus local number through Skype for job application - what do you all think about this strategy - is it really worth because if the company asks for a face-to-face interview, then since I will not be in Aus, would getting the Aus local number through Skype help in this situation? Any information here please. Thanks.
I am planning to move to Aus by mid of July.


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## trinkasharma (Mar 20, 2013)

If you have worked in SAP or any other IT field, you *WILL *get a call.

And when you are in the office for interview/work, then you will see lots of Indian IT workers there too.

Of course you need to be in Melbourne/Sydney for the above scenario.


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

trinkasharma said:


> If you have worked in SAP or any other IT field, you *WILL *get a call.
> 
> And when you are in the office for interview/work, then you will see lots of Indian IT workers there too.
> 
> Of course you need to be in Melbourne/Sydney for the above scenario.


Thanks for your above reply.

Hi All,
I actually applied for some job requirements online from India, but leave about getting any call on my Indian phone number, no reply even on my email address from the companies regarding my job applications. So I was wondering regarding will this situation change on me reaching Aus and then getting a local Aus number there. I have been working in SAP technology for nearly 11 years now.
Another question - what should be the initial wages on which I should settle for getting my first job in Aus, since I have no local work experience, but in IT field I think local work experience should not matter that much, but don't know how much local work experience is important in getting a job in IT industry. So what monthly salary should I target as a minimum to get the first job if I am in Melbourne or in Sydney? Any ideas/thoughts anybody here please? Thanks.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

misecmisc said:


> Thanks for your above reply.
> 
> Hi All,
> I actually applied for some job requirements online from India, but leave about getting any call on my Indian phone number, no reply even on my email address from the companies regarding my job applications. So I was wondering regarding will this situation change on me reaching Aus and then getting a local Aus number there. I have been working in SAP technology for nearly 11 years now.
> Another question - what should be the initial wages on which I should settle for getting my first job in Aus, since I have no local work experience, but in IT field I think local work experience should not matter that much, but don't know how much local work experience is important in getting a job in IT industry. So what monthly salary should I target as a minimum to get the first job if I am in Melbourne or in Sydney? Any ideas/thoughts anybody here please? Thanks.


Even after moving here, people had to wait upto a year to get a job

So you should have a surplus of 50,000 AUD minimum to transfer to Australia before landing there

Are you mentally and financially prepared to spend a year and Rs 25 lakhs in just making applications, sending CVs and Resumes, attending interviews and facing rejection after rejection.?
It really makes you frustrated and you lose confidence in yourself with every passing day.

I am making this as a generic statement and not directed at you personally or questioning your job experience or financial capability

It is just to help you take an informed decision.

There are other thread also on the forum on the same topic which you can go through

Without any international experience, I think 70K would be good point to start and then take it from there

Salaries and job opportunities for most ICT jobs are the same in Melbourne and Sydney, but the expenses are 1.5 times more in Sydney as rentals are higher

Cheers


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## australis (Mar 26, 2017)

In 2013, I landed in Australia for the very first time. My destination was Brisbane and I didn't have more than AU$1000 in cash - my only savings. I had no job or accommodation waiting, and no Australian contacts whatsoever. In total, I stayed there for a few years, while building up my life, step by step. I couldn't be happier with my experience. 

It might sound like a cliché, but life is what you make out of it and your happiness depends, above all, on your personal mindset. Snobs, posers and pessimists will always be unhappy anyway. If anyone feels let down by Australia, remember: Australia did not fail, you did. If you can't get your dream job on your first try, don't waste your savings and complain. Drive a forklift or something until you get where you want to be. Life is good anyway.


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## shets (May 18, 2016)

newbienz said:


> Even after moving here, people had to wait upto a year to get a job
> 
> So you should have a surplus of 50,000 AUD minimum to transfer to Australia before landing there
> 
> ...




Sure it is a valid point indeed! People are generally desperate to get hold of the famed Oz residency, overlook the fact that they are by themselves after the grant. One needs to take into account initial living expenses till one get holds of a job that pays back. I would say loosely 30k should suffice for the first 5-6 months. People take varied time to hunt for a job and I am not even talking about a 'suitable job' here!


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## shets (May 18, 2016)

australis said:


> In 2013, I landed in Australia for the very first time. My destination was Brisbane and I didn't have more than AU$1000 in cash - my only savings. I had no job or accommodation waiting, and no Australian contacts whatsoever. In total, I stayed there for a few years, while building up my life, step by step. I couldn't be happier with my experience.
> 
> It might sound like a cliché, but life is what you make out of it and your happiness depends, above all, on your personal mindset. Snobs, posers and pessimists will always be unhappy anyway. If anyone feels let down by Australia, remember: Australia did not fail, you did. If you can't get your dream job on your first try, don't waste your savings and complain. Drive a forklift or something until you get where you want to be. Life is good anyway.




Great attitude Mate! 

I can't agree more. Australia does not owe us anything as a matter of fact we do (in case one gets residency)..


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## Rahul_UK183 (Mar 30, 2017)

newbienz said:


> Even after moving here, people had to wait upto a year to get a job
> 
> So you should have a surplus of 50,000 AUD minimum to transfer to Australia before landing there
> 
> ...


Hey mate.. I have 4 years of UK experience which is ticking as I write this. 

Do you think that will help in Oz job hunt, considering you are already working in Oz ? 

Burning 25L INR seems way too steep :/

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

newbienz said:


> Even after moving here, people had to wait upto a year to get a job
> 
> So you should have a surplus of 50,000 AUD minimum to transfer to Australia before landing there
> 
> ...


Thanks for your above reply. As far as how long I can survive the frustration of rejection of not getting a job in Aus is concerned, I will say 1 year is too long a period for me, rather I will apply for around 4 months for getting a job in Aus, if within these 4 months I get a job, then it is ok, otherwise I will return back to my home country India and then search for a job in India.
Your financial amount as an initial amount to have to move to Aus seems to me to be a bit much on the higher side, though it also depends on which city you are talking about.
I estimated few days back reg the cost of living for one person in Melbourne for a month and 2500 AUD for one person for one month in Melbourne seems to be ok, obviously a person cannot live lavishly in this amount for a month, but at least a person can survive on it. So 10K AUD shall allow me to stay in Melbourne for around 4 months and if within these 4 months I would not be able to get a job based on my job profile in Aus, then I will return back to India and then search for a job in India.
I will see how will I cope with the frustration of being unemployed in Aus with the pressure of my savings getting reduced, since till now in my life I have never been unemployed.

@australis: You seem to have a very positive outlook, which is great. With you moving with just 1000AUD was a great brave move. But since I have my wife and my daughter, so I cannot stay for more than 4 months by just spending all my savings in order to try to get a job. Also I will try to search for job based on my job profile, since I do not have the flexibility to start to build my life from scratch by taking whatever job I get just to help me survive, till I get the job based on my job profile. I will see where my life takes me.


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## Mithung (Feb 5, 2016)

misecmisc said:


> Thanks for your above reply. As far as how long I can survive the frustration of rejection of not getting a job in Aus is concerned, I will say 1 year is too long a period for me, rather I will apply for around 4 months for getting a job in Aus, if within these 4 months I get a job, then it is ok, otherwise I will return back to my home country India and then search for a job in India.
> Your financial amount as an initial amount to have to move to Aus seems to me to be a bit much on the higher side, though it also depends on which city you are talking about.
> I estimated few days back reg the cost of living for one person in Melbourne for a month and 2500 AUD for one person for one month in Melbourne seems to be ok, obviously a person cannot live lavishly in this amount for a month, but at least a person can survive on it. So 10K AUD shall allow me to stay in Melbourne for around 4 months and if within these 4 months I would not be able to get a job based on my job profile in Aus, then I will return back to India and then search for a job in India.
> I will see how will I cope with the frustration of being unemployed in Aus with the pressure of my savings getting reduced, since till now in my life I have never been unemployed.


Just want to share my experience so far in Melbourne so that you get an idea. 
I am one of those who strongly opposed the original poster's views. I am a mechanical engineer with over 9 years experience in automotive domain and 2 years as an entrepreneur. I wasn't looking for a mechanical engineer position, but instead, was looking for a position in sales/marketing/corporate preferably in the automotive domain. 

I landed in Melbourne on 11th of January. I chose Melbourne because over 70% of auto OEMs are based out of Melbourne. Booked Airbnb accommodation for 1 week while I was in India. It was right in the city centre and was a pleasant experience. I was in contact with a forum member who was from my hometown and we met in Melbourne. He helped me in getting myki card, activating bank account, showing me around the city etc. 

I started my job search the next day itself. At the same time I was looking for a shared accommodation (flatmates, gumtree). I didn't come with a lot of money, so I had to find a shared accommodation. Finding a shared accommodation wasn't easy. If a place was available for cheap, it would be gone within seconds. Luckily on the last day of my Airbnb stay, I found a shared accommodation which was about 15 mins by train to the city centre. It was a large house with 8 private rooms and 2 shared bathrooms and a kitchen. I used to pay 750$ per month (all bills included). Phone, groceries, myki, trips around Melbourne and misc expenses would come to around 150-200$. So with 10k you can easily survive for 6-8 months or more.

Like everybody else, I too started my job hunt on seek, indeed and other portals. I connected with recruiters and company HR's on LinkedIn. Everybody accepted my invitation to connect, but never responded to messages. I called recruiters only to be told that they will get back. The number of job listings available for me was very few compared to someone from IT. One of my housemates was a PR from SriLanka and he was a network engineer. He would have nearly 100-150 job listings per day matching his profile while I would be lucky if there was at least 1 for a day. I used to see him attend interviews after interviews while I was still waiting for that elusive call. Seeing him made me sad, but I didn't lose hope. I was positive all the while. I knew I wouldn't get many chances and I had to crack the first interview I got. So I started preparing for it.

For nearly 2 months, all I did the whole day was refreshing seek, indeed, LinkedIn, making calls etc. Trust me, it is so boring to be jobless. I used to hate weekends and public holidays and prayed that it never came. My money was draining and my family's IED was approaching. It was then, I decided to look for a casual job. I wanted to do something instead of sitting idle at home everyday. I applied for several jobs listed on gumtree. No response. I wrote to several auto dealerships. Some of them called back, but wanted auto sales experience which I didn't have. So no luck there either. Finally I got a call for a casual job from one of the hundred applications that I had sent. Met the employer and started the next day (end of March) itself. I told my employer before I joined that I am a PR and I would quit if I found a permanent job and I would need leaves on short notice for interviews. He agreed to it. I was paid 650$/week. It was a nice experience since I got to interact with Aussies and people from different nationalities. It isn't easy to understand the Aussie accent when they speak fast. Initially I used to ask them to repeat at least 2 or 3 times, but soon I got used to it.

To be contd.....
(Have something to attend to at the moment)


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## kiasuvivek (Mar 21, 2017)

The sad truth is situation has changed a lot in the past 4 years. Australia is in the brink of recession now and having only hope is not going to fill the stomachs. 


australis said:


> In 2013, I landed in Australia for the very first time. My destination was Brisbane and I didn't have more than AU$1000 in cash - my only savings. I had no job or accommodation waiting, and no Australian contacts whatsoever. In total, I stayed there for a few years, while building up my life, step by step. I couldn't be happier with my experience.
> 
> It might sound like a cliché, but life is what you make out of it and your happiness depends, above all, on your personal mindset. Snobs, posers and pessimists will always be unhappy anyway. If anyone feels let down by Australia, remember: Australia did not fail, you did. If you can't get your dream job on your first try, don't waste your savings and complain. Drive a forklift or something until you get where you want to be. Life is good anyway.



Sent from my ONEPLUS A3010 using Tapatalk


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## trinkasharma (Mar 20, 2013)

Mithung said:


> Just want to share my experience so far in Melbourne so that you get an idea.
> 
> 
> I started my job search the next day itself. At the same time I was looking for a shared accommodation (flatmates, gumtree). I didn't come with a lot of money, so I had to find a shared accommodation. Finding a shared accommodation wasn't easy. If a place was available for cheap, it would be gone within seconds. Luckily on the last day of my Airbnb stay, I found a shared accommodation which was about 15 mins by train to the city centre. It was a large house with 8 private rooms and 2 shared bathrooms and a kitchen. I used to pay 750$ per month (all bills included). Phone, groceries, myki, trips around Melbourne and misc expenses would come to around 150-200$. *So with 10k you can easily survive for 6-8 months or more*.


I can confirm the same for May 2017. If you check Indian community pages on facebook, then you can find a single room in a shared house for less than 800 AUD PM in Melbourne. You may not get a job soon but 1200 AUD PM should be OK for two adults on shared accomodation.


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## Giri vishnu (Apr 9, 2014)

So, I have been reading this thread carefully and respect each and every view. However, people should refrain from saying, "I will come back". Your hard work & support from God, made you land there, imagine there are hundreds, who are awaiting to go ; do not waste a seat..Struggle & fight or do not apply at the first instance, be open to change & take up the job, which comes first; 

I know speaking is easy, however there is no short cut in life !!


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## Mithung (Feb 5, 2016)

Mithung said:


> Just want to share my experience so far in Melbourne so that you get an idea.
> I am one of those who strongly opposed the original poster's views. I am a mechanical engineer with over 9 years experience in automotive domain and 2 years as an entrepreneur. I wasn't looking for a mechanical engineer position, but instead, was looking for a position in sales/marketing/corporate preferably in the automotive domain.
> 
> I landed in Melbourne on 11th of January. I chose Melbourne because over 70% of auto OEMs are based out of Melbourne. Booked Airbnb accommodation for 1 week while I was in India. It was right in the city centre and was a pleasant experience. I was in contact with a forum member who was from my hometown and we met in Melbourne. He helped me in getting myki card, activating bank account, showing me around the city etc.
> ...


Having started casual job, next thing to do was to find a house on rent since my family was due to arrive in the last week of April. After a lot of inspections and rejections, I found a small and cosy 2 bedroom furnished house about 20 mins by train from the city. The rent was reasonable considering the proximity to the city. Thanks to the money earned from casual job I had enough to pay the bond amount and advance rent. I moved in a week before my family arrived. 

While I was on the way to the airport to pick my family, I got a call on my phone (Friday). It was from one of the several companies that I had applied to. They asked me to come for an interview on Monday. I agreed to it. I called my employer to ask for a day off on Monday. My employer wasn't ready to give me a day off on Monday since few others had already applied for day off. He asked me to take off on Tuesday. I called the HR and asked if he could postpone the interview to Tuesday. He said it was not possible since the hiring manager was leaving for an official overseas trip Tuesday morning. Finally we agreed to a telephonic interview on Monday. I had an hour long telephonic interview with 2 people during my lunch break on Monday. It had a mix of technical and business related questions. Finally they said they will get back in case they decide to proceed. I got a call again that evening from the hiring manager if I could come for a face-face interview on Tuesday. I agreed since I already had a day off on Tuesday. This time it was 2 different people in the panel. The interview went for 45 minutes. They had my resume in hand and wanted me to explain every point mentioned in it. The face-face interview went much better than the telephonic interview. 

2 days later I got a call from the HR saying that they have decided to go ahead with my application and want to do the background check (Police check, medical check, qualification check, professional reference check and visa check). I sent him my qualification and visa details, completed the police check and scheduled a medical test. I then spoke to 2 of my ex-managers whom I was planning to list as referees. The HR had sent them a questionnaire with 15-16 questions and asked them to fill and submit at the earliest. One of my ex-managers did it the same day while the other took 3 days. All checks were completed and I was waiting to hear from the HR. No news from him for 4 days. I was worried if I failed the medical test or if any of my ex-managers gave a bad feedback. Nothing of that sort happened because I got a call 2 days later from the HR congratulating me on the appointment. It was a great feeling. It was something I wanted to hear since 4 months. It was a big relief. The HR mentioned key details of the offer over phone. After the call, he emailed me the offer letter and I had to sign and email it back to him. 3 days later I received a post from them with the hard copy of the offer with other forms that had to be filled, signed and sent back. I will be starting work on the 1st of June.

From my experience in Australia so far,
1. There is a job for everyone. You just need to have a lot of patience. Some get it early while some have to wait for it.
2. Being jobless for 1 or 2 months or more can be very frustrating especially when your money is draining. Don't lose hope. Someone here posted that hope doesnt fill tummies. It doesn't, but we live with hope everyday. There is nothing without hope. Try meditating for 15 mins everyday. It will help you stay positive.
3. Get a casual job. There is no shame in doing a casual job. Everybody does it here. Having money coming in to your account can relieve you of some tension. Moreover it will keep you occupied.
4. Search and apply jobs on all portals and company websites. Contact recruiters and company HRs. Try meeting them if possible. Following up is equally important.
5. Cant comment much on IT, but the guys I know have been receiving calls and attending interviews. Be aware that there is severe competition. A recruiter receives nearly 1000 applications for 1 job listing. So you need to be at your best. Prepare for every interview like it is the only chance you have.
6. You need to evolve continuously. You need to keep changing your resume or covering letter or how you contact recruiters in case your current approach doesnt work.
7. Be honest with HRs or recruiters. If you don't know, tell that you don't know. People will forgive a mistake, but not a lie.
8. One person can easily survive with 1000-1200$ per month.
9. A family (couple + kid) is eligible for centrelink benefits. Family tax rebate and child care benefit. No other benefits for 2 years.
10. Now that 457 is banned, I think there should be more opportunities for PRs. This is just my opinion.

Some of the things I can think of the moment. I will post more as and when I remember.


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

Giri vishnu said:


> So, I have been reading this thread carefully and respect each and every view. However, people should refrain from saying, "I will come back". Your hard work & support from God, made you land there, imagine there are hundreds, who are awaiting to go ; do not waste a seat..Struggle & fight or do not apply at the first instance, be open to change & take up the job, which comes first;
> 
> I know speaking is easy, however there is no short cut in life !!



I really appreciate the way you expressed.
I agree with all my heart.


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## tahanpaa (Mar 1, 2014)

trinkasharma said:


> I can confirm the same for May 2017. If you check Indian community pages on facebook, then you can find a single room in a shared house for less than 800 AUD PM in Melbourne. You may not get a job soon but 1200 AUD PM should be OK for two adults on shared accomodation.


Dear Mate,
You will get any job by the very 1st month of your arrival if you really looking for i can give you that guarantee 
Yes it may take time to get job in your category like I took 1 yr 4 months to get a really good job in my category and sector. 
So this this really unnecessary to think you need to bring money for 6 months or more.
Really someone can sit at home without any work? unbelievable


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

@Mithung: Thanks friend for your generosity in sharing your experience. Really appreciate it.


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## scorpion24 (Mar 13, 2017)

Mithung said:


> Having started casual job, next thing to do was to find a house on rent since my family was due to arrive in the last week of April. After a lot of inspections and rejections, I found a small and cosy 2 bedroom furnished house about 20 mins by train from the city. The rent was reasonable considering the proximity to the city. Thanks to the money earned from casual job I had enough to pay the bond amount and advance rent. I moved in a week before my family arrived.
> 
> While I was on the way to the airport to pick my family, I got a call on my phone (Friday). It was from one of the several companies that I had applied to. They asked me to come for an interview on Monday. I agreed to it. I called my employer to ask for a day off on Monday. My employer wasn't ready to give me a day off on Monday since few others had already applied for day off. He asked me to take off on Tuesday. I called the HR and asked if he could postpone the interview to Tuesday. He said it was not possible since the hiring manager was leaving for an official overseas trip Tuesday morning. Finally we agreed to a telephonic interview on Monday. I had an hour long telephonic interview with 2 people during my lunch break on Monday. It had a mix of technical and business related questions. Finally they said they will get back in case they decide to proceed. I got a call again that evening from the hiring manager if I could come for a face-face interview on Tuesday. I agreed since I already had a day off on Tuesday. This time it was 2 different people in the panel. The interview went for 45 minutes. They had my resume in hand and wanted me to explain every point mentioned in it. The face-face interview went much better than the telephonic interview.
> 
> ...


Congratulations!!. Very happy for you.


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi All,
One query - do we need to take our original certificates and mark-sheets for our educational qualifications to Aus for job search? Just asking if it is mandatory to have original certificates with us when we go for job search or just having the xerox of the certificates will be sufficient? Without having the original certificates with us, will the HR team not give us the job offer in Aus? Any information here please. Thanks.


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

misecmisc said:


> Hi All,
> One query - do we need to take our original certificates and mark-sheets for our educational qualifications to Aus for job search? Just asking if it is mandatory to have original certificates with us when we go for job search or just having the xerox of the certificates will be sufficient? Without having the original certificates with us, will the HR team not give us the job offer in Aus? Any information here please. Thanks.


You should always have the original transcripts degrees etc with you.

You may be required to submit notarised copies of the same which will require you to show the originals

HR can also ask to see the originals for verification.

In my opinion. You should carry the originals with you.

At least I did.

Cheers


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## JP Mosa (Mar 14, 2013)

misecmisc said:


> Hi All,
> One query - do we need to take our original certificates and mark-sheets for our educational qualifications to Aus for job search? Just asking if it is mandatory to have original certificates with us when we go for job search or just having the xerox of the certificates will be sufficient? Without having the original certificates with us, will the HR team not give us the job offer in Aus? Any information here please. Thanks.




Do not ever use that word "XEROX".......instead use photocopy

when you attend interviews.


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## misecmisc (Jun 26, 2014)

Finally landed in Melbourne. The job search begins. Wish me luck friends. My complete Aus journey till now is happening only because of you all friends on this forum and not because of me. Thank you dear friends for helping and motivating me on my this journey.


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## yousufkhan (Jul 11, 2016)

misecmisc said:


> Finally landed in Melbourne. The job search begins. Wish me luck friends. My complete Aus journey till now is happening only because of you all friends on this forum and not because of me. Thank you dear friends for helping and motivating me on my this journey.


-
Best of luck for job and life ahead


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## charansingh.sai (Mar 1, 2017)

misecmisc said:


> Finally landed in Melbourne. The job search begins. Wish me luck friends. My complete Aus journey till now is happening only because of you all friends on this forum and not because of me. Thank you dear friends for helping and motivating me on my this journey.


Good luck mate. Keep posting updates on your job. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## NikhilR (Jan 2, 2017)

trinkasharma said:


> My landlord is on 80K. He came here 2.5 years ago and bought a home in Dec 2016. Aus has 100% finance


Can you show me any link? 100% finance? Which bank?



trinkasharma said:


> There are many homes for less than 400,000. Check this one


That apartment in your link is still on the market. Remain unsold ever since it was listed. You have to wonder why. No good public primary or secondary schools nearby - may be ok if you have no children. Also, google "Footscray crime". 

Also bear in mind that If you buy an apartment here then you have to pay high body corporate fees (at least $1500-2000 a year), plus council rates.


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## trinkasharma (Mar 20, 2013)

NikhilR said:


> Can you show me any link? 100% finance? Which bank?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


https://www.homeloanexperts.com.au/no-deposit-home-loans/

you can still get approved for a 100% home loan, subject to suitability, if you get a little creative or if you have help from your parents!

In fact first time home buyers get a grant from the Government as well. AFAIK, it is 10,000 AUD.

I don't need to google for Footscray Crime. I can see it on TV. Homes are cheaper in west Melbourne because crime is higher. 

Australia is NOT a cheap place. But it pays very well. Even labourers who speak basic English earn 200 AUD per day.

Come here if it is better for you. Australia is good for many people but may not be good for everyone. 

Migration is a big step. Anyone willing to migrate should think not just twice but ten times.


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## NikhilR (Jan 2, 2017)

trinkasharma said:


> https://www.homeloanexperts.com.au/no-deposit-home-loans/
> 
> you can still get approved for a 100% home loan, subject to suitability, if you get a little creative or if you have help from your parents!


Completely irrelevant to new migrants. How many migrants have rich parents living in Australia and able to guarantee $600,000?

FHOG of $10,000 is only available if you purchase newly built properties. No stamp duty for properties under $600,000.




trinkasharma said:


> I don't need to google for Footscr...e, think 10 times before making the big leap!


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## trinkasharma (Mar 20, 2013)

@NikhilR,

You are quite intelligent and know a lot. I am sure you would agree that:

PR gives you a right to work and live in Aus. After getting the PR you will face all the problems what Australians face. You will also get the benefits. Nothing more and nothing less.

If your job is in demand, then you get good money. The cost of living depends per person. Not everyone lives in a 600,000 home and only about half of population owns a home. 

Nocookies | The Australian

Only immigration agents tell you things that you will land in a highly paid job and buy a large home in the first year itself.


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## dreamliner (Mar 3, 2015)

Australia won't allow your to become rich so easily...

The more you earn, the more tax you pay...

They only wants you to become skilled worker in the relevant occupation and keep serving country till you die...

There is nothing like settle in Oz... Its continuous routine flow..
you get pay more and also they take more in expenditure... Savings is tough here...

Cost of living, housing is rising and wages are declining...

$350,000 house would be given on loan for 25 years would pay lesser amount with $600,000 value. So you will have to pay almost double loan amount every month with almost same salary. 

If you sell your house second time, the tax you pay is huge...

Banks are always safe here too...
Once you obtain your loan, most of the initial mortgages are you paying will be interest amount...

Migration plan is also revenue for Oz government... Hence they won't stop at this moment i believe.
Migration program is like a game.. Its up to migrants to decide if they want to play this game..

You are coming with skills to this land.. soon you will realize your exposure to your skill is not much.... its only manpower most of the time..

So, yes think 10 times before coming here..


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## insider580 (Nov 16, 2015)

dreamliner said:


> Australia won't allow your to become rich so easily...
> 
> The more you earn, the more tax you pay...
> 
> ...


There is no country that offers easy or quick money making techniques. You will always have to work hard for it no matter which country you live in. We even have to struggle in our own country sometimes. 

It is all about choices you make and what you want in your life at that particular moment. Every one of us go through a phase in life. Sometimes preference is getting a job only with a nice small house where the family can stay. Once we achieve that, our desire is always to get more. Some people who achieve all the basic things (house, car, enough money etc), they then have the urge to spend quality times with friends. 

Different phases, different desires (never-ending desires I would say)


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## NB (Mar 29, 2017)

dreamliner said:


> Australia won't allow your to become rich so easily...
> 
> The more you earn, the more tax you pay...
> 
> ...


At what stage of the PR process are you ?

Are you practising what you are teaching ?

Cheers


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## dreamliner (Mar 3, 2015)

I am living here (OZ)..

I am not teaching anyone.. its a experience sharing...

Come and experience yourself..


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## Rajnath27 (Dec 19, 2015)

*Umm....Think twice before you Step in ....*

Alright My Dear Forumers, 

I have been a silent observer of this thread and have reserved my Judgement for this interesting debate on Throwing up everything and bracing yourself for a Gold Hunt donning a Cow boy Hat Down under!! Yeah.... Let's see.

I respect the Guy who has started this thread who has advised to think twice before stepping here. It's true in every word he said. First of all, now-a-days it's not so easy to get a PR and even if you get one, it's not so easy to find a Job here. This point is as simple & Blunt and also as Straight as possible in my personal view as experienced by me here. 

I second the opinion of someone who said believing consultants is as crazy as someone believing that Pigs would someday fly (Serious Pun intended). Well this observation is only for those Consultants in India who fleece you and serve you nothing at the end. 

After getting the Big Visa Ticket, now what ? (Is the Big question) for anyone coming here. It's really painful to leave the Job (well paying or not), Family (Parents, Wife, Kids), House, Car etc like a recluse and starting here from scratch. 

Consultants in India tell you that you can go there with hardly 1.5 -2.5 Lakhs cash in hand and that you will find something soon to tide for yourself. Sadly, This is far from the truth. 

The living expenses are very high at least in Sydney.(My point of reference for this write up is only Sydney) as most IT Guys like us would prefer either Mel or Sydney when coming to Australia. (Me being a Sys Admin, I had no other choice but to choose Sydney). One must bring a minimum of 4 Lakhs even if you are coming alone to meet the initial expenses until you get a suitable job. (the least expensive option of renting a "shared room" is itself still a big Money Guzzler. If you come with family, your expenses are directly proportional to the members and obviously Add up either ways.

No one is your friend here and at the same time all are not your enemies. Basically you must grow your Network here and establish a large contact base that would help in finding a suitable job that may or may not meet your skills. Getting the first break here is very Critical and trust me folks, this is definitely going to need a lot of patience as the fear of Failure always Haunts you if you set for your self some targets and make some seemingly realistic promises to your parents/Family about securing a Job and still not being able to do so within a set frame of time. 

It is true that people with references are preferred here. If you are already in some job, moving to some other might be easy. But the window to get into that first Job is quite daunting for a Guy who lands here with a PR Visa for the first time and I feel this is the very reason this thread was started in the first place. 

Ok, Here's the deal then folks: Come here but you must have superior skills and at the same time, "paradoxically shouldn't have been at a very top level person with respect to a Job Position in India" because you are placing yourself at the top of the Pyramid and it's difficult to let go off that "special Ego" and finding something similar to what you already did in India that commands a very high Pay or excellent Job satisfaction. One must first of all, cast that ego (if any) aside and take up the opportunity and be very flexible and always open to learn new stuff. 

If you are placing yourself just at the base of the Pyramid and trying to learn new skills and come here to begin here from scratch again, you may get placed somewhere with difficulty but this wouldn't eventually fetch you that dream Job or those promised Dollars...and would again make you curse everyone....you know what I mean right.....

Well, securing that first Job is heavily dependent on every individual's case and the odds to secure the Job are heavily tied up with the personal traits like: a Candidate's Attitude (Never say Die or I give it Up without a fight); aptitude (Willingness to adapt or adopt untested or unchartered territories pertaining to career), extreme patience, Positive attitude (Well again, I would say there's a catch even for this! One must have at least 80% Positive attitude and of course that 20% Negative thinking while doing the Job search. I guess I don't have to explain the 80-20 rule here as most people already know it.), Trust in Karma, Belief in God whatever your personal faith is....and offcourse also some little amount of Luck or the Timing (depending on in what season you enter the Market here. It would be only too foolish to enter Australia in Mid November and cursing everyone here if you have not found any Job as it is the driest Season here.).

Well folks to conclude, bringing suitable finances to tide over during the crucial time, managing family in India (if you are coming alone), studying the Job market here, estimating and knowing your value (tied up with the Skills you have) are the most crucial factors in determining your first job, which no consultant worth their (70K INR Looted) salt care or dare to mention this to you before hurrying you up in making you apply for an Australian PR Visa. 

So, Best of Luck for all Future aspirants who want to eke out a living here. 

Kind regards,
Rajnath


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## behappy99 (Feb 10, 2015)

I read every single post in this thread and i'm curious to know where are you? Did you find job which suits you? Are you happy in life and in you job?


Simon Matthew said:


> Disclaimer: I'm neither anti-Australian nor a pessimist. This thread aims to bring the stark reality of the job market to newly arriving migrants, particularly those who aim to migrate in 2017
> 
> (1) First and foremost, newly arriving migrants have to wait at least 104 weeks (that is 2 years) before you are eligible for any sort of benefits/social payment in Australia. This means that when you arrive here, don't expect the government or anyone to support you financially and help you with anything. People talk the talk, but mostly don't walk the walk.
> 
> ...


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## GSM82 (Feb 22, 2018)

behappy99 said:


> I read every single post in this thread and i'm curious to know where are you? Did you find job which suits you? Are you happy in life and in you job?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


i was wondering the same thing!


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## Bhajjaji (Jan 16, 2017)

BH
Hope the best for everyone in his settlement journey


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## rvd (May 21, 2016)

behappy99 said:


> I read every single post in this thread and i'm curious to know where are you? Did you find job which suits you? Are you happy in life and in you job?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


He would have settled in Australia.

He might have posted when he was in peak of his frustration during the job search. I admire on his English written skill.

We can this as pinch of salt and be prepared to face the unexpected circumstances, if any.

All the best for everyone.


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## mazaz1988 (Aug 26, 2018)

Well, I guess thats true for every country where you are thinking of migrating.


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## Kuciwawa (Nov 4, 2018)

Hi Simon, thanks for the insight and the time you spent writing all these information.
Let's say my visa 189 application is approved, I visit Perth on for a vacation to validate the visa, buy local SIM card with roaming option and back to my current home country and carry on with work and life while looking for a job in Australia. Will there be any tax obligation for me already in Australia? Technically, I am permanent resident of Australia getting overseas earning. Is it something that I have to declare to Australian Government? if so, I will be double-taxed?

Also how would you cope for the interview invitation when you are overseas having full-time job commitment ? will the companies in Australia generally be more flexible to have a week or two waiting time before I can meet them face to face? 

How about the one-month notice period that I have to give to my current employer plus relocating internationally with family? 

Sorry, it's a lot of questions. I've been struggling to get the migration score that I wanted for years. And now that I received the invitation, I am so worried of what might happen. I am currently living as an expat in another asian country.


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