# leasing a bar



## keithyu (May 12, 2014)

hi all,
i am currently splitting from my wife after 23 years and am thinking of relocating to Spain for a fresh start. I have always fancied leasing a bar in the torremolinos/benaldemena area but obviously it is a big move and commitment. is there anyone out there who can advise me their views especially interested to hear from bar owners already out there.:yo:


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

keithyu said:


> hi all,
> i am currently splitting from my wife after 23 years and am thinking of relocating to Spain for a fresh start. I have always fancied leasing a bar in the torremolinos/benaldemena area but obviously it is a big move and commitment. is there anyone out there who can advise me their views especially interested to hear from bar owners already out there.:yo:


Leasing a bar in Spain and making a living is incredibly hard work for many reasons. I'll mention just 2 of them
a) Current economic climate(including a youth unemployment rate which is the highest in Europe at more than 50%, and unemployment in the general population of more than 30%), which may be improving, but don't hold your breath.
b) Spanish timetables are long, very long and althought your customers may be foreigners they'll probably be expecting the Spanish hours of approx 8:00 - goodness knows when.

I understand your need for a new start, but the combination of Spain + work is a bit elusive at the moment to say the least, so maybe it'd be best to move to a new place in the UK or a better placed country in the EU.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Leasing a bar in Spain and making a living is incredibly hard work for many reasons. I'll mention just 2 of them
> a) Current economic climate(including a youth unemployment rate which is the highest in Europe at more than 50%, and unemployment in the general population of more than 30%), which may be improving, but don't hold your breath.
> b) Spanish timetables are long, very long and althought your customers may be foreigners they'll probably be expecting the Spanish hours of approx 8:00 - goodness knows when.
> 
> I understand your need for a new start, but the combination of Spain + work is a bit elusive at the moment to say the least, so maybe it'd be best to move to a new place in the UK or a better placed country in the EU.


The only two pennies I can add is what I have seen with my own eyes in the 12 months I have lived here in Benalmadena. Lots of closed bars. Looks really grim. More like Whitley Bay 'now' & not 'then'! One bar across the road from me has had 3 owners in 12 months! & the 2 next door have had 2 lots of owners each. I met a lovely couple who lasted here 6 months before throwing in the towel, they had a nice little cafe just off the sea front.
As for long hours??! I can't get a coffee before 9.30am at a Spanish cafe and at a Brit one you are lucky before 10am! I am guessing everyone will look a bit livelier now the 'season' has started again. Very quiet out there at lunch time today though. I have yet to find anywhere open at 8am!! Even in the highest of seasons! 'Spanish hours' in my experience are approx. 10am - 1.30pm & then 5pm - 9pm.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

angil said:


> The only two pennies I can add is what I have seen with my own eyes in the 12 months I have lived here in Benalmadena. Lots of closed bars. Looks really grim. More like Whitley Bay 'now' & not 'then'! One bar across the road from me has had 3 owners in 12 months! & the 2 next door have had 2 lots of owners each. I met a lovely couple who lasted here 6 months before throwing in the towel, they had a nice little cafe just off the sea front.
> As for long hours??! I can't get a coffee before 9.30am at a Spanish cafe and at a Brit one you are lucky before 10am! I am guessing everyone will look a bit livelier now the 'season' has started again. Very quiet out there at lunch time today though. I have yet to find anywhere open at 8am!! Even in the highest of seasons! 'Spanish hours' in my experience are approx. 10am - 1.30pm & then 5pm - 9pm.


You mean they close at lunch time?!
Can't get my head around that one
I must be used to "normal" city timetables then, not tourist towns


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

Pesky Wesky said:


> You mean they close at lunch time?!
> Can't get my head around that one
> I must be used to "normal" city timetables then, not tourist towns


off season here, there's a bar opposite my friends' restaurant which opens at about 8:30, closes at 3ish & then opens again 6pm til about 9pm

now it's not closing in the afternoon, & stays open a bit later

another bar nearby opens at 6am & closes about 7pm - it has new owners so I don't know if they'll extend when teh season actually starts

I don't know any that close at lunchtime though!


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> You mean they close at lunch time?!
> Can't get my head around that one
> I must be used to "normal" city timetables then, not tourist towns


I'm sorry I assumed you were talking in general with regards Spanish hours and not just bar times. 
The working hours for most Spanish businesses are as I have already quoted. I know this because my days I planned around them! These aren't tourist hours! These are 'normal' working hours of Spanish small businesses I frequent.
I am used to my morning take out coffee at 7.30am not 9.30am! 
& I generally don't drink coffee at lunch times but before hubby left we tried to pop into a cafe at 1.30pm for a quickie and were shooed away as he was closing. So he must have been hungry for his lunch and not a profit!! A Spanish cafe not a Brit one (the coffee is better!).


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

xabiachica said:


> off season here, there's a bar opposite my friends' restaurant which opens at about 8:30, closes at 3ish & then opens again 6pm til about 9pm
> 
> now it's not closing in the afternoon, & stays open a bit later
> 
> ...


One of my neighbours, nice young Spanish family. They have the cafe across the street ( for the last month anyway), doesn't open til 9.30am at the earliest! Anyway he did comment on how lazy people were in these parts and how difficult it was to get anything done! So perhaps the short hours is a regional thing?! I don't know, I am new to all of this!!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Bars in our village open before 8.00 a.m. and close when the last customer goes.
Opening a new bar/ cafe here would be like setting light to yourmoney but different only in that it would vanish in much less time so you would spend less time watching it disappear...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

angil said:


> One of my neighbours, nice young Spanish family. They have the cafe across the street ( for the last month anyway), doesn't open til 9.30am at the earliest! Anyway he did comment on how lazy people were in these parts and how difficult it was to get anything done! So perhaps the short hours is a regional thing?! I don't know, I am new to all of this!!


I would hesitate to call the Spanish 'lazy'. In my experience we Brits are the idlest workers of Europe.
Spaniards are also less inclined to be 'busy fools' in that they won't slash prices to the point where they work harder for less profit.
Note I said 'in my experience'.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Benalmadena is like at ghost town at 8am NOTHING is open! Other than the gym!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

angil said:


> Benalmadena is like at ghost town at 8am NOTHING is open! Other than the gym!


When I walk Our Little Azor past our two or three cafes before eight a.m. they arepacked with workmen having coffee and something stronger..often, I've noted, from abottle kept under the counter, for some reason...
I once was invitedto partake....a clear liquid that hadto be knocked back in one gulp..that brought tears to my eyes and nearly choked me.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

mrypg9 said:


> I would hesitate to call the Spanish 'lazy'. In my experience we Brits are the idlest workers of Europe.
> Spaniards are also less inclined to be 'busy fools' in that they won't slash prices to the point where they work harder for less profit.
> Note I said 'in my experience'.


This was a quote from a Spanish young man trying to make a go of it in a Province he hadn't lived in before. Nowt to do with me! He had a bar in another area of Spain and didn't hit the brick walls he is hitting here.
I only mentioned this in relation to opening hours and perhaps they were regionally specific?


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## keithyu (May 12, 2014)

thanks for all these replies.
the type of bar i want to open is like a fun brit pub.
quizzes, karaoke, competitions, ect.
i know its all about the right pub in the right location.
i co to different parts of spain every year and my family always looks for this type of pub. but they seem to be few and far between these days.


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

The American bars I've seen open up in the last couple of years in Madrid, seem to have made a go of it. (search for Roll madrid, or Carmencita) Partly by offering event-style nights (film clubs, language interchanges and the like) and partly through good food - their brunches at weekends have gone down a storm, despite their high prices.
However the difference is that they target an audience who are in Madrid much of the year (both Spanish and the American expat community). Very different if you're operating on the coast and every week or two the population is exchanged for a new lot of incomers.

PS. I often go for a coffee in the morning, and there are no shortage of places open at 9am Indeed some places here probably make more money on the breakfast trade than anything else. Again this may be specific to the city.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

keithyu said:


> thanks for all these replies.
> the type of bar i want to open is like a fun brit pub.
> quizzes, karaoke, competitions, ect.
> i know its all about the right pub in the right location.
> i co to different parts of spain every year and my family always looks for this type of pub. but they seem to be few and far between these days.


All (most) of the Brit bars here claim to do the same sort thing. Most of the bars here look pretty dead when I walk past with my little dog! Even in the height of the season I would hardly call it jumping. 
I don't go near 24 hour square for obvious reasons!, maybe it is a hive of 'activity' along that way?! 
Perhaps it is down to the all inclusive holiday packages? The beaches are stowed out but where these people go in the evening is anyone's guess! Back to the hotels?? For the entire evening? Its not the sort of vacation I am used to taking! 
I was going to say you need to think outside the box but from what I have seen that doesn't work either.


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## tarot650 (Sep 30, 2007)

keithyu said:


> thanks for all these replies.
> the type of bar i want to open is like a fun brit pub.
> quizzes, karaoke, competitions, ect.
> i know its all about the right pub in the right location.
> i co to different parts of spain every year and my family always looks for this type of pub. but they seem to be few and far between these days.


The reason they are few and far between is because they are old hat.They have come to the end of their sell by date and I wouldn't class them as pubs.Some of them are nothing more than goryfied locals.We had fun pubs then came the irish bars and then came the music bars with open mic nights.Me and the missis have owned a bar in Benalmadena when people were making good money and it certainly was an experience.No disrespect to you but save your money.Try getting a job in a bar and when you have only got one customer in with his tubo at least you would be getting paid.One thing,don't fall for rent a crowd .Somebody will get all his mates in for the potential buyers looking at the bar to make it look busy.Wish you the best of luck.Ex bar owner.Benalmadena.


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## VFR (Dec 23, 2009)

keithyu said:


> hi all,
> i am currently splitting from my wife after 23 years and am thinking of relocating to Spain for a fresh start. I have always fancied leasing a bar in the torremolinos/benaldemena area but obviously it is a big move and commitment. is there anyone out there who can advise me their views especially interested to hear from bar owners already out there.:yo:


Hackney will be miles better & earn you some good money.


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

playamonte said:


> Hackney will be miles better & earn you some good money.


I lived in a part of London (not Hackney, more central) where unfortunately most local pubs starting closing down, but there was a bit of a revival in the last 2 years. A couple re-opened as upmarket gastro pubs, but the main growth area was in places where they had accommodation that they converted into dorms for backpackers... seemed to have done well in attracting the Euro crowd too.
But traditional style pubs? Forget it.


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## xabiaxica (Jun 23, 2009)

angil said:


> One of my neighbours, nice young Spanish family. They have the cafe across the street ( for the last month anyway), doesn't open til 9.30am at the earliest! Anyway he did comment on how lazy people were in these parts and how difficult it was to get anything done! So perhaps the short hours is a regional thing?! I don't know, I am new to all of this!!


it depends where it is

the friends with a restaurant used to have a bar - it opened at 9:30 & there would have been no point at all it opening any earlier

it also closed at 'whenever - really late' & didn't open weekends - there were simply no clients in that neighbourhood at the weekend


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## gus-lopez (Jan 4, 2010)

6a.m opening here, 7a.m at the latest.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

keithyu said:


> hi all,
> i am currently splitting from my wife after 23 years and am thinking of relocating to Spain for a fresh start. I have always fancied leasing a bar in the torremolinos/benaldemena area but obviously it is a big move and commitment. is there anyone out there who can advise me their views especially interested to hear from bar owners already out there.:yo:



Have you managed and run a bar before? 

Do you speak Spanish???

Do you understand Spanish rules, regulations and bureaucracy (very different from the UK)???

Those IMO are three essential criteria that you need before you start. Then you have to factor in the recent recession and the very strong competition in the areas you've suggest. I can think of three ex bar owners who had bars in Spain, but it didnt work. Two of them threw money at these projects and had experience. One of them couldnt even open for the first year cos he couldnt get the correct permissions

That all said, I understand that you're at a turning point in your life and want to do something different - Maybe if you have a bit of money and some time, you could visit Spain and do some fact finding and have a good nose around

Jo xxx


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## keithyu (May 12, 2014)

Thanks jo
I know all that but my wife and family were and are everything to me and I feel that after all this time I am gonna be a little bit selfish for me.
I have no home and although I have a job I am not happy. To me if I can do this it would be something for me for once. I dont want to make money just have enough to survive and take away sad memories. Something I don't think I can do in the UK.


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

keithyu said:


> Thanks jo
> I know all that but my wife and family were and are everything to me and I feel that after all this time I am gonna be a little bit selfish for me.
> I have no home and although I have a job I am not happy. To me if I can do this it would be something for me for once. I dont want to make money just have enough to survive and take away sad memories. Something I don't think I can do in the UK.


Trust me, it would be much easier to do it in the UK - MUCH!! But of course, the idea isnt as exciting. From everything I know, you wouldnt make enough to live on - in fact those I know who've done this spent their savings just trying to stay afloat.

However, back to your reasoning, I'm sure even you know that this would be a bit of a knee jerk reaction - an understandable one tho. You'd probably be financially better off if you did somehow just take a few weeks out of work and travel around spain, ask existing bar owners for their experiences, advice, have a hoiliday, a change of scenery..... And you'll get a chance to take stock and re-look at your life and where you can take it - It might be Spain, but it could be anything. You can start again, just dont do anything hasty - a bar in Spain is costly and high risk!

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

keithyu said:


> Thanks jo
> I know all that but my wife and family were and are everything to me and I feel that after all this time I am gonna be a little bit selfish for me.
> I have no home and although I have a job I am not happy. To me if I can do this it would be something for me for once. I dont want to make money just have enough to survive and take away sad memories. Something I don't think I can do in the UK.


I very much understand what you're saying, but I have to say that I seriously doubt that what you propose is going to be the solution to your problems. You will very probably be going from one bad scenario into another, and in this one you'll be in a foreign country with no background knowledge about how things work, and few, maybe no friends and family around to help you. 
Think about moving to another country when you're sure that you're not trying to escape a bad situation in the UK. In the meantime, as Jo has suggested take time off and spend some time in the area getting to know what it would be like to live there and make a living from it. OR as I suggested, look at other places in the UK.

Right now Spain is the place to come if you've retired with your own little pot of gold or if you have a firm offer from an IT company.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

keithyu said:


> Thanks jo
> I know all that but my wife and family were and are everything to me and I feel that after all this time I am gonna be a little bit selfish for me.
> I have no home and although I have a job I am not happy. To me if I can do this it would be something for me for once. I dont want to make money just have enough to survive and take away sad memories. Something I don't think I can do in the UK.


It's unlikely you will make enough to survive. If you are,understandably, miserable now it could be a lot worse if you end up broke and even in debt in Spain.
Soulboy, an ex- bar owner, is telling it like it is. Brit 'fun' bars really are old hat. Spain is allegedly attracting a more sophisticated, wealthier type of tourist who will we are told be looking for a more up- market experience. 
I'm assuming you don't speak Spanish so how would you cope with Spanish rules andregulations, suppliers etc. as well as dealing with a Spanish clientele..you can't make a living out of Brits.
The days of coming to Spain and opening a bar/cafe are long gone. There must be tens of thousands of bar/ cafes for sale all over Spain so ask yourself 'why'?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

angil said:


> I'm sorry I assumed you were talking in general with regards Spanish hours and not just bar times.
> The working hours for most Spanish businesses are as I have already quoted. I know this because my days I planned around them! These aren't tourist hours! These are 'normal' working hours of Spanish small businesses I frequent.
> I am used to my morning take out coffee at 7.30am not 9.30am!
> & I generally don't drink coffee at lunch times but before hubby left we tried to pop into a cafe at 1.30pm for a quickie and were shooed away as he was closing. So he must have been hungry for his lunch and not a profit!! A Spanish cafe not a Brit one (the coffee is better!).


No, I was only talking about bars.
It's very difficult to talk about what's the norm in Spain as things change so much in different areas of the country and even within towns. Shopping centres have very different opening hours to small shops in towns. Office hours?? Depends if you're talking about civil servants or private business. Bars? It seems from what people are saying here that's it's different if you are in an area where people are going to work or if they're on holiday or it's a residential area. Add the info that the place you're talking about is in the north or south, halfway up a mountain, in a desert area, is a beach bar in Noja or a beach bar in Nerja and you'll come up with fifty different answers to "What time does the bar/ shop usually open?"


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> No, I was only talking about bars.
> It's very difficult to talk about what's the norm in Spain as things change so much in different areas of the country and even within towns. Shopping centres have very different opening hours to small shops in towns. Office hours?? Depends if you're talking about civil servants or private business. Bars? It seems from what people are saying here that's it's different if you are in an area where people are going to work or if they're on holiday or it's a residential area. Add the info that the place you're talking about is in the north or south, halfway up a mountain, in a desert area, is a beach bar in Noja or a beach bar in Nerja and you'll come up with fifty different answers to "What time does the bar/ shop usually open?"


& as the OP was asking about Benalmadena. I will say again it is like a ghost town at 8am! & as I live across the road from 4 'bars' and have 'bars' all along the route I take my dog for her late evening walk, not exactly jumping later on either! Even in the highest of high seasons. Which I am personally very grateful for! The type of 'bars' the OP was asking about anyway. Like I said 24 hour square may to a roaring trade?! Thankfully I am far enough away to neither know nor care!


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

angil said:


> & as the OP was asking about Benalmadena. I will say again it is like a ghost town at 8am! & as I live across the road from 4 'bars' and have 'bars' all along the route I take my dog for her late evening walk, not exactly jumping later on either! Even in the highest of high seasons. Which I am personally very grateful for! The type of 'bars' the OP was asking about anyway. Like I said 24 hour square may to a roaring trade?! Thankfully I am far enough away to neither know nor care!


No need to repeat yourself angil! I don't doubt that that's life in Benalmádena
But, you posted that


> The working hours for most Spanish businesses are as I have already quoted.


And those hours were


> Even in the highest of seasons! 'Spanish hours' in my experience are approx. 10am - 1.30pm & then 5pm - 9pm.


And that's not actually true. That's not Spain's business hours, that's Benalmádena's bars and shops.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> No need to repeat yourself angil! I don't doubt that that's life in Benalmádena
> But, you posted that
> And those hours were
> And that's not actually true. That's not Spain's business hours, that's Benalmádena's bars and shops.


& no need to nit pick Pesky Wesky!! As I am sure you are all aware I am certainly no expert on Spain nor do I ever want to be. But as I am actually living in Benalmadena and that is the area the OP mentioned thought I'd stick my awe in! But thanks for the correction I will be more careful in future as to the exact wording of my posts!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Business hours in Estepona are 10.00 a.m. to 14.00 and around 17.30 to 21.00. It really does seem as if aliens have abducted everyone as siesta hour approaches.
It makes sense. Not all business premises have efficient aircon and who wants to work during the hours of most intense summer heat? And why change the habit in winter? 
Some cafes close, restaurants don't. I had to take my car for ITV to the Estepona station yesterday so decided to have lunch but I was too early..12.30....so found a tapas bar.
As the song says, only mad dogs and Englishmen (and women) go out in the midday sun so these hours make perfect sense.


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

In the town local to us it's much the same, everything is shut by 2pm and doesn't open to 5:30-6. Most of the restaurants on the main street don't open till 6 and even then it's just a guideline, if you were waiting at the door a 6 you could be in for a lengthy wait.
I was particularly miffed one Friday when at quarter to seven you couldn't even get a pizza for dinner anywhere in town. On a Friday.

That's why when we find a shop that is open or a business that actually goes out of their way to offer you a service and does so professionally we tend to always support them.

The most popular shop in town is the petrol station because it's always open.
Lease a petrol station maybe?


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

angil said:


> & no need to nit pick Pesky Wesky!! As I am sure you are all aware I am certainly no expert on Spain nor do I ever want to be. But as I am actually living in Benalmadena and that is the area the OP mentioned thought I'd stick my awe in! But thanks for the correction I will be more careful in future as to the exact wording of my posts!


You think of my post as nit picking.

I think of it as giving wider information, and I'm happy to leave it like that.


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## Calas felices (Nov 29, 2007)

"thought I'd stick my awe in" - Pesky Wesky doesn't seem to be in need of that veneration.


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## angil (Sep 24, 2012)

Calas felices said:


> "thought I'd stick my awe in" - Pesky Wesky doesn't seem to be in need of that veneration.


Oh for goodness sake!! Me 2 pennies worth / stick me neb in etc etc!! How totally and utterly unnecessarily pedantic!


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

I am quite amazed that our local off licence shuts on a Saturday morning - not to reopen until Monday.......

It would be unthinkable in the UK.......an off licence shut on Saturday night & all day Sunday. The same with the garden centre 

Methinks, the Spanish care more about their leisure/family time than their profits....( Wink, Wink )


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Off license?

I haven't seen anything resembling one of those at all around here. Not saying it doesn't exist but it's probably hidden in some tiny side street.

Again, the petrol station sells booze. 24/7


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## kalohi (May 6, 2012)

Allie-P said:


> I am quite amazed that our local off licence shuts on a Saturday morning - not to reopen until Monday.......
> 
> It would be unthinkable in the UK.......an off licence shut on Saturday night & all day Sunday. The same with the garden centre
> 
> Methinks, the Spanish care more about their leisure/family time than their profits....( Wink, Wink )


There are laws that govern when shops may open - most aren't allowed to open for long hours and 7 days a week. 

We have friends who own a small home goods shop in Seville, and they are constantly complaining about such limitations placed on them by local ordinances. 

From the outside it might look like they are more interested in their leisure time, but that's far from the truth!


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

Calas felices said:


> "thought I'd stick my awe in" - Pesky Wesky doesn't seem to be in need of that veneration.


Oh..I don't know.

A very wise woman....


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

I'm actually staggered to find out here that bars close in some towns at lunch time! I've been to various parts of Spain (Valencia, Teruel, Leon, Cantabria, Granada etc) not just Madrid, and I've found it rare that a bar-restaurante that didn't have a Menu del Dia from about 2 to 4.40 or 5. In fact I believe it was the law at one time that every place that served food had to offer a MdD. Just goes to show how varied Spain can be, I suppose..


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## thrax (Nov 13, 2008)

Bars and Chiringuitos around here open and close all at quite different times. For example, it is quite hard to find bars open for coffee in Nerja much before 9.30am yet in Torre del Mar many open at 7.00 - 8.00 am. That difference, no doubt, is because Torre is a business oriented town and Nerja is tourist orientated and since tourist aren't known to be up and about in Nerja much before 10 .... Nearly all bar/restaurants around here close at 14.30 - 15.00 and reopen anytime after 7.00pm until very late or, as often happens, very early when there are no customers. The very very best advice for the OP is to, if you can, come over for the summer, try and find a bar job (some areas are much easier to find such work than others, whilst some areas it is impossible) and see for yourself how hard and unrewarding it can be. Having said that, there are some newer bars/restaurants opening in and around Nerja/Torrox Costa that are doing extremely well but that is because they are offering high end services etc to attract the wealthy crowd who seem to be coming here in increasing numbers.


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

mrypg9 said:


> Oh..I don't know.
> 
> A very wise woman....


Gotta like that one, haven't I??


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## Leper (May 12, 2010)

Hi Keith,

You need to lease a bar on the Costas like the Spanish are pining for the return of Franco. Even in the good ol' days before the recession renting/leasing a bar/restaurant was not as it was once i.e. hardly any credit offered and credit management has got quite draconian because of Bar Renters skipping the country.

Every knack to attract people into bars has been used, Irish Bars, Bingo, Pongo, Quizzes, Showbars, Riverdance, Granny's Sunday Roast, Under-the-Counter-Horse-Raced Betting, Sports Bar, Even Flamenco dancing, Open Mike, Karaoke, Fancy Dress, Larger Fish & Chips, Childrens Painting Competitions, Freebies etc.

. . . and you don't speak fluent Spanish? - Recipe for Disaster.


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## 90199 (Mar 21, 2010)

I know nothing of Benalmadena, however here in the Canaries on the island of Gran Canaria it was reported in yesterdays press, tourism has increased 37.3% in the month of April this year………...


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## jojo (Sep 20, 2007)

Hepa said:


> I know nothing of Benalmadena, however here in the Canaries on the island of Gran Canaria it was reported in yesterdays press, tourism has increased 37.3% in the month of April this year………...



I think tourism is on the up - however, on the BBC news this morning they were saying that its because there are many more "all inclusive" holidays being taken and that isnt good for local bars or restaurants unfortunately

Jo xxx


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Hepa said:


> I know nothing of Benalmadena, however here in the Canaries on the island of Gran Canaria it was reported in yesterdays press, tourism has increased 37.3% in the month of April this year………...


Yes, tourism has really gone up in the Canaries, although it seems that the figure is 22,95% up on April of last year, so in a year it's increased by that amount, which is huge!


> El destino turístico Islas Canarias recibió en el pasado mes de abril la visita de 967.362 pasajeros procedentes del extranjero, lo que supone un incremento del 22,95% respecto al mismo período del año anterior, es decir, 180.548 pasajeros extranjeros más, según los datos aportados por Aeropuertos Españoles y Navegación Aérea (AENA). En lo que respecta a los cuatro primeros meses del año, las Islas recibieron la visita de 4.095.126 pasajeros extranjeros, 502.471 más, un 13,99% de incremento, respecto a los cuatro primeros meses de 2013.


GOBIERNO DE CANARIAS : NOTICIAS


Madrid is difficult to keep track of , but in general it seems tourism was down last year.
La llegada de turistas a la capital retrocedió casi un 5% el pasado año | Madrid | EL PAÃ�S


> El turismo de la ciudad de Madrid cayó casi un 5% en 2013, pero subió en diciembre un 7,3% en comparación con el mismo mes del año anterior. Los datos los ha dado ha conocer la alcaldesa, Ana Botella, en un acto institucional del Día de Madrid en la Feria Internacional de Turismo (Fitur)


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Pazcat said:


> Off license?
> 
> I haven't seen anything resembling one of those at all around here. Not saying it doesn't exist but it's probably hidden in some tiny side street.
> 
> Again, the petrol station sells booze. 24/7


I've never seen an off license either. I didn't know they existed here.
In Madrid there was a lot of trouble a while ago about booze being sold in the Chinese shops, and I'm not sure if they still sell it or not. If not it's supermarkets, open until 21:00, or possibly garages...


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## Allie-P (Feb 11, 2013)

Pazcat said:


> Off license?
> 
> I haven't seen anything resembling one of those at all around here. Not saying it doesn't exist but it's probably hidden in some tiny side street.
> 
> Again, the petrol station sells booze. 24/7




It surely does exist.....not prone to writing posts about imaginary shops 

A Licoreria.....which is situated in the main street of La Cala. I haven't compared prices { honest ! } - but imagine that the supermarket would be cheaper !


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

Pesky Wesky said:


> Yes, tourism has really gone up in the Canaries, although it seems that the figure is 22,95% up on April of last year, so in a year it's increased by that amount, which is huge!
> 
> GOBIERNO DE CANARIAS : NOTICIAS
> 
> ...


Tourism has gone up in Madrid more recently - up the 3 months December through to Feb this year. Plus Domestic tourism generally has risen this year..

Madrid suma tres meses seguidos de incremento de turistas | Turismo y Economía

http://elpais.com/elpais/2014/04/22/inenglish/1398181533_126499.html


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

Allie-P said:


> It surely does exist.....not prone to writing posts about imaginary shops
> 
> A Licoreria.....which is situated in the main street of La Cala. I haven't compared prices { honest ! } - but imagine that the supermarket would be cheaper !


Ahh yes, now that name does ring a bell. I have seen one, but only one, can't remember where.


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

Maybe best to research American run bars in Madrid, like Roll Madrid or Carmencita, to see how they've managed to get the customers flocking. Or even investigate franchises such as Tommy Mels, 100 Montaditos, Lizarran or la sureña. See where they do well (and where they don't do so well).


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## Pesky Wesky (May 10, 2009)

webmarcos said:


> Tourism has gone up in Madrid more recently - up the 3 months December through to Feb this year. Plus Domestic tourism generally has risen this year..
> 
> Madrid suma tres meses seguidos de incremento de turistas | Turismo y Economía
> 
> Easter results point to recovery in domestic tourism | In English | EL PAÃ�S


That's what I mean. I kept hearing it was going up and then it wasn't, it was going down and now it's up again, and at 9,1 I'd say that was pretty good, but nothing on the Canaries!

Mind you, the elections are just round the corner aren't they? Wonder if all this good news has anything to do with that?


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## Pazcat (Mar 24, 2010)

Allie-P said:


> It surely does exist.....not prone to writing posts about imaginary shops
> 
> A Licoreria.....which is situated in the main street of La Cala. I haven't compared prices { honest ! } - but imagine that the supermarket would be cheaper !



I believe you but I'm just saying I have never seen one and it is the sort of thing I would look out for. 

In Australia, this is how we do it.


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## keithyu (May 12, 2014)

i am the OP and we seem to have moved off of the original topic.
is there anyone out there that thinks i can make a go of this.
when i came to spain this is the type of place i was looking for but could never find it.
surely there must still be holidaymakers like me.


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## Lynn R (Feb 21, 2014)

keithyu said:


> i am the OP and we seem to have moved off of the original topic.
> is there anyone out there that thinks i can make a go of this.
> when i came to spain this is the type of place i was looking for but could never find it.
> surely there must still be holidaymakers like me.


Keith, I'm sorry because I know this isn't what you'll want to hear, but if you're desperately looking for someone, anyone to say yes, what you are thinking of is a good idea, but all you keep hearing is (well-intentioned) people saying do not go there, isn't that telling you something?

It's always advised to people who have gone through a very stressful and life-changing event such as divorce or bereavement that they should avoid making any decision to completely change their way of life until quite some time has passed and they have gone a long way through the grieving process. Otherwise, you run the risk of taking an unwise step because you may be so unhappy because of what's happened that you're not thinking quite as logically as you otherwise would. I'm sure none of us would want to see you do that. I'm afraid I also think the bar idea is not a good one. There may be some holidaymakers who want them, but the problem is that there are too many bars and not enough clients. People's tastes in holidays and restaurants/bars seems to be changing, certainly in the resorts nearest to where I live it's the newer, more expensive, contemporary style ones that are doing well.


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## Horlics (Sep 27, 2011)

Hi Keith.

The fact that you are asking here in this forum would lead me to saying, no, you can't make a go of this.

Although Spain is not exactly fertile ground for businesses these days, I do think that somebody in the food & pub, catering, hospitality, call-it-what-you-will trade can make money if they do their research and have the capital to put into the right project. But unless I am mistaken, you're not in the trade, haven't done any research beyond posting a message here, and may not have a large amount of capital to "do it right", as one might say.

Add to that the English man in Spain unable to speak the language factor, and it starts to look too heavily weighted against you. The importance of knowing the language really should not be underestimated.

I suggest you book a cheap flight to your preferred location and spend a week wandering in and out of bars run by English people. Ask them how it's going. Do some research that way. (and if one of them says it's going great and offers to sell to you, say no!)






keithyu said:


> i am the OP and we seem to have moved off of the original topic.
> is there anyone out there that thinks i can make a go of this.
> when i came to spain this is the type of place i was looking for but could never find it.
> surely there must still be holidaymakers like me.


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

I seem to remember seeing a few years back a "training course in running a bar in Spain" webpage. Basically you paid 700 or 800 for the privilege of being shown how to serve beers (I know it's a lot more than just that). 
No idea whether the place disppeared without trace, or not.. If it's still around, it can't have very good seo...


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

If something isn't around then it's usually because there's no demand for it. With unemployment running at over 33% on the Costas if there were a business opportunity of the kind you are interested in someone would have jumped in already.
As has been pointed out, tourism in Spain is changing. All-inclusive holidays are becoming popular and in some areas booze and sun-type tourism is being discouraged in favour of a more 'up-market' clientele with more money to spend.
Spain has changed in many ways in the last ten years.


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## webmarcos (Dec 25, 2012)

Here's a bar that is always busy, day after day (in fact I was there myself last night!)

But it's been going for donkey's years, and benefitted from being located in a barrio that has become the trendy Guiri+students' haunt over time.

http://www.gustoguides.com/eating/casa-camacho-malasana/



> Casa Camacho is one of Madrid’s best authentic bars, and one of Malasaña’s old watering holes par excellence. Popular with the kind of cool kids who would rather die than get a trendy haircut, Camacho is THE place for cheap beers and good tapas – in reality you need little more than a fiver for a good evening of nibbles, beers and the best thing about cheap Spanish bars – the swathe of new friends you will have picked up by the end of the night.


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

When I used to go to London for Conferences etc. I stayed at the Hotel Russell, Bloomsbury, very near to my alma mater, University College London University. The area around there has several pubs of the kind shown above, all with a trendy/student/trades union official clientele. They are always packed to the point of spilling out onto the pavement.
Incidentally, one of my favourite restaurants, The North Sea Fish Restaurant, is just off Marchmont Street nearby. Highly recommended to anyone finding themselves in that area of London.


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## Eddie1875 (May 29, 2013)

keithyu said:


> i am the OP and we seem to have moved off of the original topic.
> is there anyone out there that thinks i can make a go of this.
> when i came to spain this is the type of place i was looking for but could never find it.
> surely there must still be holidaymakers like me.


Have a look in Benidorm a tourist resort, every second brit bar is closed because they failed.All inclusive is killing things.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

mrypg9 said:


> When I used to go to London for Conferences etc. I stayed at the *Hotel Russell, Bloomsbury,* very near to my alma mater, University College London University. The area around there has several pubs of the kind shown above, all with a trendy/student/trades union official clientele. They are always packed to the point of spilling out onto the pavement.
> Incidentally, one of my favourite restaurants, *The North Sea Fish Restaurant*, is just off Marchmont Street nearby. Highly recommended to anyone finding themselves in that area of London.


I know that area so well, we sold a London property which was in that very area not that long ago. Do you remember the Norfolk Arms? A gastro pub/hotel I believe now. I'll be going down to see my 92 year old aunt who lives in the area, has a basement / first floor apartment there and a very very nice landlord


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## mrypg9 (Apr 26, 2008)

bob_bob said:


> I know that area so well, we sold a London property which was in that very area not that long ago. Do you remember the Norfolk Arms? A gastro pub/hotel I believe now. I'll be going down to see my 92 year old aunt who lives in the area, has a basement / first floor apartment there and a very very nice landlord


I am so envious, bob bob...If I could live anywhere in the UK it would be there....but alas way beyond our means.
Yes, I know the Norfolk Arms well...very popular with students, people from nearby trades union HQs...lovely pub.
When we lived in Prague and for a while after we moved here I used to stay at the Hotel Russell when on TU business in London and had to go to Congress House.
Most evenings after dining at the North Sea or Verdis or Spaghetti House in the Sicilian Arcade I'd take a book and sit in Russell Square..
You've made me feel quite nostalgic...alas those days are gone.


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## bob_bob (Jan 5, 2011)

Its a strange part of London in many respects, walk a few hundred metres and you go from elegant to really rough surroundings. Personally I only like London for a weekend these days, take in a show, late supper then back to the hotel.


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