# friendship and advice



## friendly scot

Hi, we are a young scottish family looking to move to newzealand, we have 2 young children and are in the early process of planning our new life, we are very excited but nervous anyone out there who are in the same position or have already moved i would love to hear from you to pass on stories and advice.


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## topcat83

friendly scot said:


> Hi, we are a young scottish family looking to move to newzealand, we have 2 young children and are in the early process of planning our new life, we are very excited but nervous anyone out there who are in the same position or have already moved i would love to hear from you to pass on stories and advice.


Hi there and welcome to the Forum

I'm sure you'll find some friendly people in here, who've been through exactly what you are looking at. Have a browse through and see what you can find.

Do you know which area you're likely to be moving to?


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## friendly scot

topcat83 said:


> Hi there and welcome to the Forum
> 
> I'm sure you'll find some friendly people in here, who've been through exactly what you are looking at. Have a browse through and see what you can find.
> 
> Do you know which area you're likely to be moving to?


My husband has applied to goughs and will hopefully get a reply soon I believe they are all over nz although we have been looking at Hamilton online. Do you have any info on the different villages or citys.


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## Siouxzee

hi friendlyscot
we are busy gathering all our documents to submit our application. we are hoping to be over there by latest end of the year.
we also have 2 small children - 19mths and 8.5mths.
a good job hunting place is seek.co.nz
we are looking at either auckland, wellington or christchurch, depending on where my husband is able to find a job. we have heard christchurch is a great place for raising a family.


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## saltybroad

Hello, 
We are a family with young children, and in (mostly) the same boat. We need to be in residence in NZ no later than August of this year to satisfy the requirements of our residence visa. We have no idea where we might end up, as this is heavily dependent upon where my husband finds work. (This is probably for the best because I would have a really hard time picking a place otherwise!) I would love any advice anyone has about finding employment - it seems that even though my husband's job is on the shortage list, openings are a bit scarce. Counter-intuitive to say the least so we must not be looking in the right places - will check out seek.co and hope for more replies from experienced ex-pats!


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## topcat83

ReinetteRenee said:


> ....Most Kiwi's put up with the cold cause its all they have ever known. My husband had never thought twice about it till he living in america and had central heating where EVERY room was warm. Winter 2009 was so cold, we were renting a house and our only source of heat was a Fujitsu Heat Pump. It would only heat the Living room and the kitchen leaving the rest of the house cold and wet. When we complained about it we were told to open our windows so that the house may air out and hopefully dry out. The problems with that, is it was raining almost all the time and the other times it was so cold i didn't want to open the windows. also our fridge was warmer then the rest of the house quite often.


...LOL - unfortunately this was true.... that's why Kathmandu does such a roaring trade  I've been educating my Kiwi friends since we've been here. A couple of them have even installed heat pumps now


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## sdh080

ReinetteRenee said:


> My tidbit of advice is Make sure you get a balanced View of New Zealand.
> 
> If you can afford to make a trip out first to make sure the place you plan on moving to is everything you hope it to be. Be prepared for the Culture shock and the home sickness. I had no idea what culture shock was till i suffered it. Many people who move to a country that is similar to theirs but still diffident experience it once they get passed the honeymoon phase. There are those who move here and love it and there are those who move here and feel the made a big mistake. So make sure your not setting your self up for the land of milk and honey.
> 
> Make sure you learn about what type of crime goes on in the city/town you plan on moving to. An example is down south around i believe its Invercargill is known for the mongrel mob. they cause lots of problems and crime where they are. Now if your white you shouldn't experience the racism but you might get mocked for you accent. If your not white i sure hope you speak really good English because i see the same kind of racism that i saw in america when it came to Mexicans as i see here to any one whom doesn't speak English very well or at all. Yes not everyone is racist but it still exists and in some areas very badly. I am from america and of very mixed decent but i guess am lucky enough to look enough white over anything else. Im in Dunedin and there is the University here and its full of students from all over the world so im not sure how racism is here but im sure the further out of the city you go the worse it may get.
> 
> Here is just a bit of wellington racism.
> 
> 
> 
> Both this man and his wife had moved from London to NZ where they were trained nurses. It was an NZIS seminar that had given them the idea that NZ was for them.
> 
> I really hope the jobs you will be taking here pay well because the cost of living is so HIGH! The thing that appears to make NZ a success for so many migrants is the amount of income they earn. If you earn more then you can do more, you will be much happier. The cost of stuff here in NZ has gone up so much sometimes it just makes things hard. *Last time i look Gas was like $1.97 a liter* and when we bought the cheep brand of milk it was $3.90 for 2 liters. My Husband is a Kiwi and so he got a decent playing job. I was told i could finish my training over her and get a good paying job. I asked all the right questions and then when i got here they gave me the run around and tones of BS and now I'm suck working a job just over minimum wage till i can get something better.


The perception of whether things are expensive or not depends on where in the world you originally came from.

For someone from the UK, $1.97 a litre of petrol is currently about 25% less than the equivalent price in the UK. 

For most people, the salary differential won't be 25% less.

Just an example.


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## Yvonne.72

sdh080 said:


> The perception of whether things are expensive or not depends on where in the world you originally came from.
> 
> For someone from the UK, $1.97 a litre of petrol is currently about 25% less than the equivalent price in the UK.
> 
> For most people, the salary differential won't be 25% less.
> 
> Just an example.


How much is the average salary differential between NZ and the UK?

Comparing differentials between NZ and Australia is something more familiar to me.

A litre of petrol here fluctuates around $1.30 or NZ$1.70. That is 15% cheaper than in New Zealand.

Average salaries in Australia are supposed to be 35% higher than New Zealand. Reference Australian wages 35pct higher than NZ - report - Story - Politics - 3 News 
but I think they're even higher for professionals.


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## friendly scot

saltybroad said:


> Hello,
> We are a family with young children, and in (mostly) the same boat. We need to be in residence in NZ no later than August of this year to satisfy the requirements of our residence visa. We have no idea where we might end up, as this is heavily dependent upon where my husband finds work. (This is probably for the best because I would have a really hard time picking a place otherwise!) I would love any advice anyone has about finding employment - it seems that even though my husband's job is on the shortage list, openings are a bit scarce. Counter-intuitive to say the least so we must not be looking in the right places - will check out seek.co and hope for more replies from experienced ex-pats!


What area of work are you looking for? What areas have you considered to live? have you any info on or have you been looking into schools?


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## friendly scot

Siouxzee said:


> hi friendlyscot
> we are busy gathering all our documents to submit our application. we are hoping to be over there by latest end of the year.
> we also have 2 small children - 19mths and 8.5mths.
> a good job hunting place is seek.co.nz
> we are looking at either auckland, wellington or christchurch, depending on where my husband is able to find a job. we have heard christchurch is a great place for raising a family.


What line of work is your husband in? Mine is diesel mechanic! He has contacted a few companies by email and awaiting reply. I have been looking at serveral areas to but it all depends on work. Not got that far yet in early stages waiting to see if we can get sponser through husband and been in contact with some agencies, which agency have you used?


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## sdh080

Yvonne.72 said:


> How much is the average salary differential between NZ and the UK?
> 
> Comparing differentials between NZ and Australia is something more familiar to me.
> 
> A litre of petrol here fluctuates around $1.30 or NZ$1.70. That is 15% cheaper than in New Zealand.
> 
> Average salaries in Australia are supposed to be 35% higher than New Zealand. Reference Australian wages 35pct higher than NZ - report - Story - Politics - 3 News
> but I think they're even higher for professionals.


I can only talk for the jobs I know a bit about, teaching and finance professionals and both of them are certainly on a par if not higher than the UK.

For example, I've got 10 years Finance experience and to get a similar salary to the one I've got in Christchurch, I'd have to live and work in London.

Primary school teachers with 5-6 years teaching experience earn slightly more in NZ than they do in the UK.


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## Yvonne.72

sdh080 said:


> I can only talk for the jobs I know a bit about, teaching and finance professionals and both of them are certainly on a par if not higher than the UK.
> 
> For example, I've got 10 years Finance experience and to get a similar salary to the one I've got in Christchurch, I'd have to live and work in London.
> 
> Primary school teachers with 5-6 years teaching experience earn slightly more in NZ than they do in the UK.


I'm confused. Why does your profile say you're in Dubai?

Are you on sabbatical?


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## sdh080

Yvonne.72 said:


> I'm confused. Why does your profile say you're in Dubai?
> 
> Are you on sabbatical?


I've not landed in Christchurch yet, been in Dubai for the last 3 years.


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## eastendoflondon

My two pence worth...anyone heard of something called currency fluctuations?
5-10 years ago you could get 3 NZD to 1 GBP.Now it's 2 to 1.That's partly why i think food is so expensive in NZ from a Brits perspective.
Brits are used to paying about £1 for 4 litres of milk at Tesco.I was recently there for 5 weeks(returned last Saturday).We went to Pak n Save/New World/Countdown most of the time.Out of those three i would say Pak n Save was the best value for money.They do have promotional days like Mad Wednesday(maybe Thursday can't remember) where a lot of items are reduced by up to 25%.
Example 12 x 355mg of Coke Zero can's normally $11.99 reduced to $9.99.Tesco in UK will sell you 15 x 330ml can's for £8($16).Pretty similar.
On average a (half decent) loaf of bread in NZ was $2.99.In the UK i always buy Kingsmill and pay £1 per loaf.Therein lies the issue.The NZD is too strong at the moment and it makes food appear more expensive.Note however that i also just spent a week in Australia and a loaf of decent bread out there costs at least 3 of their dollars.Factor in the AUD being a third stronger then the NZD and that shows you an even bigger problem!Another thing to note is that BOGOF's(buy one get one free) are very few and far between down under whereare multibuys and bogofs are everywhere here.More worrying for me was the cost of Pharmacy items such as sun lotions and anti histamine products.
A 12 pack of HayFever tablets in NZ was $30!The same tablets would cost me maybe £4 in supermarkets up and down Britain.Bottle of factor 30 sun lotion was $28 in Countdown 2 weeks ago.Same size bottle in UK would be maybe £8 in UK.
One positive note...pick and mix sweets in New World are cheap.$1.28 per 100g.


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## saltybroad

friendly scot said:


> What area of work are you looking for? What areas have you considered to live? have you any info on or have you been looking into schools?


We're insanely flexible and will land wherever we can based on a job offer. My husband is an engineer (aerospace/mechanical) so I imagine we'll be based near one of the larger cities. Having visited most of them I would be hard pressed to say which I like best, but we do have a special fondness for Christchurch, and Wellington is lovely too. 

I haven't put any effort into looking at schools since we don't know where we'll be. Can anyone speak to the quality of the school curriculum? I have read wildly differing accounts about how good the schools are - do they really vary so much or are they all teaching the same material, with any variance in quality being due to the teacher? I understand there are national standards, are they uniformly upheld? Are the schools well-funded, or is that dependent on the community?


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## Siouxzee

Hi Friendlyscot and saltybroad
My husband is a Software Developer/Engineer.
We are also very keen on Christchurch, but it also depends on where the jobs are. We have submitted his CV to quite a few agencies via Seek. Some people dont even acknowledge receipt but they do have the disclaimer that if you do not have the right to work and live there that you might not get a response. Other responses have been contact us when you have a visa or coming over for a visit.
It is quite frustrating as we are not asking companies to pay for a visa just to go through an interview process and if they are keen provide a job offer as it does move the application through quicker. Also as a family we can then move together instead of my husband going first and finding a job before moving everyone over. Plus if you dont have a job offer you might only get a work to residence visa not a skilled migrant visa  
Either way though we are very excited at the prospects and cant wait to make the move


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## Yvonne.72

saltybroad said:


> We're insanely flexible and will land wherever we can based on a job offer. My husband is an engineer (aerospace/mechanical) so I imagine we'll be based near one of the larger cities. Having visited most of them I would be hard pressed to say which I like best, but we do have a special fondness for Christchurch, and Wellington is lovely too.
> 
> I haven't put any effort into looking at schools since we don't know where we'll be. Can anyone speak to the quality of the school curriculum? I have read wildly differing accounts about how good the schools are - do they really vary so much or are they all teaching the same material, with any variance in quality being due to the teacher? I understand there are national standards, are they uniformly upheld? Are the schools well-funded, or is that dependent on the community?


You are going to notice a difference with the American system that's for sure.

I am not at all impressed with the current NCEA system in New Zealand.

National standards are being introduced but many schools are resisting them. I think they're a good idea. There is a lot of antagonism directed towards Anne Tolley, the minister for education.

Reference http://www.ppta.org.nz/index.php/-issues-in-education

Teaching materials vary widely and books are expensive therefore used less intensively than I would like.

Schools are decile rated based on the perceived affluence of their catchment area. The more affluent areas get less state funding and parents are expected to contribute more. Decile rating should not be used as an indicator of a school's academic performance.

IMO as a parent the schools are NOT well-funded, New Zealand spends less per student than the OECD average on education. For secondary schools we come 23rd out of 28 and for primary schools we come 21st.

Although private education provision exists in New Zealand it is not as popular, nor as well funded by the state as it is in countries like Australia.


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## Yvonne.72

*With reference to the NCEA*

Less than 60% of teachers support the NCEA



> NCEA
> National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA)
> 
> While the trials of achievement-based assessment in the late 1980s and early 1990s were relatively non-controversial, the replacement of that form of assessment with unit standards in the mid-1990s, and then with the achievement standards of the NCEA since 2002, have been less well-received by teachers.
> 
> As recently as 2006, in the NZCER national survey of secondary schools, only 59 per cent of secondary teachers agreed or strongly agreed with the statement: “I am supportive of NCEA.”
> 
> Clearly there is room for further work to ensure that New Zealand has an indigenous qualification that the profession supports and that has credibility with the wider community.
> 
> PPTA Annual conference is where teachers will be discussing The NCEA: A pathway to the future you can access the paper on the Annual Conference papers webpage.


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## UK2NZ

Ive just emmigrated from the uk (i was living in wales) please can some one give me an idea of temp during winter as when i left home it was minus 20 degrees. Now thats cold!
Laura


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## sdh080

Yvonne.72 said:


> Less than 60% of teachers support the NCEA


In *2006* less than 60% of them supported the NCEA.

I could go into a rather lengthy rant about the new "national standards" but we'll leave it for now.


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## sdh080

sdh080 said:


> In *2006* less than 60% of them supported the NCEA.
> 
> I could go into a rather lengthy rant about the new "national standards" but we'll leave it for now.


Here's what the Principals think of "National Standards"

National Standards


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## saltybroad

It may just be my browser but I'm not having any luck with that link - there's no actual text beyond the headline. Hence, the question I'm about to ask may well have been answered already but I don't know it so will ask anyway.

Are the national standards met by testing? This is the problem we've come into in the US - everything is based on test scores, so teachers spend all their time "teaching the test" and kids never actually learn anything - except how to tick boxes. Skills like critical thinking and reading comprehension are ghosts of the past.


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## NZCowboy

saltybroad said:


> It may just be my browser but I'm not having any luck with that link - there's no actual text beyond the headline. Hence, the question I'm about to ask may well have been answered already but I don't know it so will ask anyway.
> 
> Are the national standards met by testing? This is the problem we've come into in the US - everything is based on test scores, so teachers spend all their time "teaching the test" and kids never actually learn anything - except how to tick boxes. Skills like critical thinking and reading comprehension are ghosts of the past.


My understanding is that, it is a more general assessment, to make sure all childern have a good basic understanding/ablility in reading writing and mathematics, and to identify and hopefully prevent childern from slipping though gaps.

_National Standards
National Standards in reading, writing and mathematics provide signposts that give teachers, children, parents, families and whānau a clear idea of where children are at in their learning and what they have to do next.

From 2010, schools with children in Years 1-8 will be using National Standards in reading, writing and mathematics. Schools will report to parents, families and whānau in writing at least twice a year on their child's progress and achievement in these areas, in relation to the National Standards._
Ministry of Education - National Standards


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## sdh080

saltybroad said:


> It may just be my browser but I'm not having any luck with that link - there's no actual text beyond the headline. Hence, the question I'm about to ask may well have been answered already but I don't know it so will ask anyway.
> 
> Are the national standards met by testing? This is the problem we've come into in the US - everything is based on test scores, so teachers spend all their time "teaching the test" and kids never actually learn anything - except how to tick boxes. Skills like critical thinking and reading comprehension are ghosts of the past.


It should be a short video with various principals from around the country giving their opinion.

Yes, testing is involved which is one of the first problems, another problem is that no two kids are the same and teachers have to be able to adapt to teaching different styles, national standards wouldn't allow the same scope for that.


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## Yvonne.72

sdh080 said:


> Here's what the Principals think of "National Standards"
> 
> National Standards


Schools are starting to dump the NCEA, and not before time. Note the remark about letting the weaker students do NCEA exams in English and math.


> One of the country's most prestigious schools, Auckland Grammar, has become the first state school to dump NCEA exams.
> 
> The boys' secondary school in the upmarket suburb of Epsom will this year get its fifth form (year 11) students to sit the University of Cambridge's international exams in favour of NCEA exams, the Herald on Sunday reported today.
> 
> Headmaster John Morris said the move was backed by the board of trustees, the academic committee and the majority of parents.
> 
> The school would allow some exceptions by letting weaker students sit NCEA English and maths exams, the newspaper reported.


 Ref Auckland Grammar dumps NCEA | Stuff.co.nz

This is what the Principal said about the NCEA on the school's web pages (he says a lot more but here's the crux of it)
Ref: NCEA: An Ill-Planned Recipe for Academic Anorexia | Auckland Grammar School



> *There are many problems in the NCEA*:
> 
> * the ideological refusal to accept that much assessment requires inter-student comparisons and the consequent attempt to define all education in terms of "standards";
> * the lack of a national policy on reassessment;
> * unacceptably low levels of assessment reliability;
> * limited moderation and lack of consequences for schools making incorrect internal assessments;
> * the lack of comparability of student assessment between schools and subjects and of qualifications over time;
> * the use of only four grades;
> * difficulties in establishing the authenticity of a student's work;
> * workload and assessment overload; and so on.
> 
> Any one of these could prove to be the Achilles' heel - the weakness that brings the whole system to its knees.


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## topcat83

Yvonne.72 said:


> Schools are starting to dump the NCEA, and not before time. Note the remark about letting the weaker students do NCEA exams in English and math.
> Ref Auckland Grammar dumps NCEA | Stuff.co.nz
> 
> This is what the Principal said about the NCEA on the school's web pages (he says a lot more but here's the crux of it)
> Ref: NCEA: An Ill-Planned Recipe for Academic Anorexia | Auckland Grammar School


Here's an NZ Herald article from today - our local school is Macleans. 

Top school's revolt against NCEA - National - NZ Herald News

I will say that for academic children I think Cambridge exams are the best. But for many who are _not_ academic, I think NCEA are more balanced.


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## MadFam

*Moving to NZ with littlies*

Hello friendly Scot,

We moved here from the UK 8 years ago as a couple. Now we have two littlies (1 and 3) and I can tell you that NZ is an absolutely FANTASTIC place for children to grow up. Where we live, a little north of Auckland city, the weather is much warmer all year than we are used to, which is lovely. Kids spend heaps of time outdoors adventuring, on playgrounds, at the beach etc etc. I think all the activities they get involved in with school and out of school if you're active, give them fantastic confidence. I am a huge believer in the connection between physical and mental confidence and ability, and the lifestyle in NZ that you can have if you choose really lends itself to that. 

There are great facilities for out-of-school activities for small children. Where we live I take mine to pre-swimming classes, athletics (well, the 3-year-old anyway), a music group, there's story time at the library and a great choice of pre-schools and kindergartens.

If you're at all outdoorsy you will LOVE it. We have a fantastic surf beach 20 mins away, two great forests full of mountain biking trails (one sand - good for winter, one mud - good for summer), there's walking, vineyards, you name it.

_[deleted due to advertising] _ 

If you are house hunting (not sure if you've got that far) then the website TradeMe is really good.

p.s. some people have concerns about the quality of higher schooling here- secondary onwards, However I am confident that more and more schools here are taking the level of education provided very seriously, and many are offering internationally recognised qualifications like IB and 'A' levels.


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## friendly scot

MadFam said:


> Hello friendly Scot,
> 
> We moved here from the UK 8 years ago as a couple. Now we have two littlies (1 and 3) and I can tell you that NZ is an absolutely FANTASTIC place for children to grow up. Where we live, a little north of Auckland city, the weather is much warmer all year than we are used to, which is lovely. Kids spend heaps of time outdoors adventuring, on playgrounds, at the beach etc etc. I think all the activities they get involved in with school and out of school if you're active, give them fantastic confidence. I am a huge believer in the connection between physical and mental confidence and ability, and the lifestyle in NZ that you can have if you choose really lends itself to that.
> 
> There are great facilities for out-of-school activities for small children. Where we live I take mine to pre-swimming classes, athletics (well, the 3-year-old anyway), a music group, there's story time at the library and a great choice of pre-schools and kindergartens.
> 
> If you're at all outdoorsy you will LOVE it. We have a fantastic surf beach 20 mins away, two great forests full of mountain biking trails (one sand - good for winter, one mud - good for summer), there's walking, vineyards, you name it.
> _
> [deleted due to advertising] _
> 
> If you are house hunting (not sure if you've got that far) then the website TradeMe is really good.
> 
> p.s. some people have concerns about the quality of higher schooling here- secondary onwards, However I am confident that more and more schools here are taking the level of education provided very seriously, and many are offering internationally recognised qualifications like IB and 'A' levels.


Thankyou very much for your lovely reply. I have been very worried about how my children will fit in they are four and five and I thought this was a nice age, would like to make the move before they get any older. Like you I do want to give them a better life more outdoors. 

I would not be working for a while when we make the move and from what I have heard my husband would work fewer hours which would benefit our family, my only concern is that I have heard mixed reviews on the cost of living, what is your opinion? Do you both work? How do you find you cope with no family around to help with babysitting? I will have a look at your blog and good luck with your move.

I would love for you to keep in touch and let me know about your move to the city. What is the village called in which you live now?


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## MadFam

*Moving to NZ with littlies*

Pleased to be of some help. We live just outside a rural town called Helensville. 

My take on the cost of living is that yes, it is quite high. But you have to balance this with the quality of life you get here. For us there was a much bigger culture gap than we expected. Particularly moving from London to this little place! I think if you live in one of the cities there would be a bit less culture shock - the country and city here can really differ. For example the choice in the supermarket out here is much more limited, I can't find anyone who can cut hair (!) - but in the city you have choice, and good hairdressers. That's just a couple of examples! The NZ economy is pretty isolated, which is a good and bad thing. It means it's pretty protected from financial crises, but also means it's quite small i.e. overall there's not a lot of money here. Kiwi businesses largely don't export, so there isn't heaps of foreign money coming in and swelling the economy. We both gave up lucrative city careers when we came here and pursued artisitic ones, which don't pay all that well anywhere, let alone in NZ. So we were quite brassic, but certainly much much happier. Now we run our own business, most of which is Northern Hemisphere, so we are now unusual in that we do actually bring foreign money in. You might find that you have less disposable income, but it's free to go to the beach! And I think eating simpler food and living simpler simplifies life overall, and I can honestly say that I have been much happier here with less. 

Funnily enough the first thing I missed when we moved here was France. You get so used to being able to pop over to the continent... NZ is kind of in the middle of a big sea. But there is lots to see and do here, and there are now cheap deals to Australia, Fiji, the Cook Islands etc if you want to get away.

I didn't have children when we lived in the UK so not having family around to help has always been the way. I do notice it when my Kiwi friends have new babies and their mums arrive to help, or after a visit back to the UK. But my family aren't huge helpers really, so it's not massive.... Since having the children I have made some really good, supportive friendships, and tapped into a local support network called "Parent Aid" that has been a godsend when my husband has been overseas on work trips.


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