# Lawyer Central Portugal



## Guest

Hi, Can anyone recommend a English speaking lawyer (or one who has English speaking staff) in Central Portugal to check some property paperwork before I sign the Promissory contract? One which someone has used to do similar work would be so much easier. Thanks


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## PETERFC

*Reply*



coleio said:


> Hi, Can anyone recommend a English speaking lawyer (or one who has English speaking staff) in Central Portugal to check some property paperwork before I sign the Promissory contract? One which someone has used to do similar work would be so much easier. Thanks


Hi Coleio

It would help members of the area that you need help for.

Peterfc 666?


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## omostra06

I have the contact details of several good lawyers in central Portugal, let me know what region and i can send you some contacts.


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## siobhanwf

Again same thing where in Central Portugal?? I have a VERY RELIABLE one in the Caldas da Rainha area


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## Guest

coleio said:


> Hi, Can anyone recommend a English speaking lawyer (or one who has English speaking staff) in Central Portugal to check some property paperwork before I sign the Promissory contract? One which someone has used to do similar work would be so much easier. Thanks



Pedrageo Grand which is near the town Serta.


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## John999

I am going to share something with you guys, and i hope some of you take the time to use it. Any state agent in these days who wants to be credible has the obligation to produce whatever contract you are signing in your language. If it is a promissory contract you have the right to have it registered in your local tax office before you pay a penny. that Will show you if they are for real or not, and if you are dealing with a dodgy state agent or a dodgy builder, the council will not be able to register that contract. So if they refuse it say no. That will save you loads of money in lawyers and alow you to to hire a simple solicitor. Your local council will have a few names for you, if you ask, and the good thing about it is they are not making a penny on you.
Don`t tell this info to anyone


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## siobhanwf

coleio said:


> Pedrageo Grand which is near the town Serta.


Over to you Derek....your part of the world :clap2:


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## Guest

omostra06 said:


> I have the contact details of several good lawyers in central Portugal, let me know what region and i can send you some contacts.




Hi,
It's in Pedrageo Grand which is near the town Serta. 

thanks

Mark


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## golden future

Hi
I'm new to forum and intending to move out in October ( house sales permitting), I too am looking for a Solicitor in Central Portugal, moving to Cabacos near Alvaiazere.
My main concern at the moment is how I go about getting permission for change of use from residential to a yoga retreat - sort of B&B with yoga, because with out that then no point in buying the particular property.
Golden Future


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## paramonte

golden future said:


> Hi
> I'm new to forum and intending to move out in October ( house sales permitting), I too am looking for a Solicitor in Central Portugal, moving to Cabacos near Alvaiazere.
> My main concern at the moment is how I go about getting permission for change of use from residential to a yoga retreat - sort of B&B with yoga, because with out that then no point in buying the particular property.
> Golden Future


Main step is to ask the Council an alteration of the utilization purpose of the property from residential to B&B, which may be granted or not. Also, if there are houses nearby the closests house owners have to agree to have your house transformend in a B&B.

If the property is in a condominium ALL the owners have to agree in order to change the use of a parcel from residential to whatever, this provided that the council agrees in th first place.


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## omostra06

golden future said:


> Hi
> I'm new to forum and intending to move out in October ( house sales permitting), I too am looking for a Solicitor in Central Portugal, moving to Cabacos near Alvaiazere.
> My main concern at the moment is how I go about getting permission for change of use from residential to a yoga retreat - sort of B&B with yoga, because with out that then no point in buying the particular property.
> Golden Future


Hi and welcome to the forum.

Changing a residential property into a B&B can be complicated,(probably why most people dont register and do it legaly) 
it depends on several things but one of the biggest things that makes a differece between it being an easy change and a complicated change is the number of rooms, there are a huge amount of laws and regulations around accomodation based business that you would need to understand to avoid falling foul of the law.
if you just want to rent out one or two rooms inside your house then this is fairly simple, if you want 5 or 6 rooms or more available for guests then it gets a lot more complicated. if the rooms are to be seperate from the main building then different rules apply.
certain regulations will be applied to these types of accomodations, you need things like fire plans, fire escapes, correct numbers of toilets, dissabled access, correct size of rooms, parking, reception/office etc, the bigger the business the more rules apply.

A lot of people run B&B here and just do it quietly and unofficialy, but they normally just have one or two rooms to rent, doing it unofficialy means there is no hassle with licenses, regulations, inspections etc, but it does mean you may have problems with the tax people, if found out
also, doing it unofficialy means you have to keep it quiet so you cant list your business with the various tourism companies, tourist board, no signage, etc. this would mean less customers, not good for a new business.
So the best thing is to do it all officialy,(which is what you are asking about) get the right type of license for the size of accomodation your going to offer.
added to this your guests will be doing yoga, so this is a different activity, so really the council, tax office may see this as, you are running two businesses, I think the yoga may come under training, if so it may also require a license, but that all depends on how you do it, it may just be a free activity for guests staying in the b&b

either way change of use of a building will require planning, it may or may not be granted.
I would suggest a meeting with the local council planning dept, tell them what your plans are for the particular property, see what they will allow. this can all be done before you buy and these meeting with the council architects are free.

the other thing to think about is expansion, if you are thinking that if all goes well with your business you may want to expand the accomodation, adding some extra rooms, or self-catering units, swimming pool, yoga studio/room in the future, its important to find out if this can be done, some properties, due to the type of zone they are in will not be allowed to be increased in size, some reserve land regions no building will be allowed at all, not even pools, garages etc.
this can also be checked out before you buy.

You mention Cabacos, regions close to lakes have a lot of reserve land so best to check the zone you in, also in this region there are a few new motorway developments going on, (your agent probably already showed you the plan of the new IC3) but if not this is a major development affecting this region, to the east of Cabacos, best to check and see if/how it will effect you, a yoga retreat might not be too nice with a motorway at the edge of the garden (I have digital copies of the maps/plans for the road if you havent seen them yet)
Good luck with your plans.


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## golden future

omostra06 said:


> Hi and welcome to the forum.
> 
> Changing a residential property into a B&B can be complicated,(probably why most people dont register and do it legaly)
> it depends on several things but one of the biggest things that makes a differece between it being an easy change and a complicated change is the number of rooms, there are a huge amount of laws and regulations around accomodation based business that you would need to understand to avoid falling foul of the law.
> if you just want to rent out one or two rooms inside your house then this is fairly simple, if you want 5 or 6 rooms or more available for guests then it gets a lot more complicated. if the rooms are to be seperate from the main building then different rules apply.
> certain regulations will be applied to these types of accomodations, you need things like fire plans, fire escapes, correct numbers of toilets, dissabled access, correct size of rooms, parking, reception/office etc, the bigger the business the more rules apply.
> 
> A lot of people run B&B here and just do it quietly and unofficialy, but they normally just have one or two rooms to rent, doing it unofficialy means there is no hassle with licenses, regulations, inspections etc, but it does mean you may have problems with the tax people, if found out
> also, doing it unofficialy means you have to keep it quiet so you cant list your business with the various tourism companies, tourist board, no signage, etc. this would mean less customers, not good for a new business.
> So the best thing is to do it all officialy,(which is what you are asking about) get the right type of license for the size of accomodation your going to offer.
> added to this your guests will be doing yoga, so this is a different activity, so really the council, tax office may see this as, you are running two businesses, I think the yoga may come under training, if so it may also require a license, but that all depends on how you do it, it may just be a free activity for guests staying in the b&b
> 
> either way change of use of a building will require planning, it may or may not be granted.
> I would suggest a meeting with the local council planning dept, tell them what your plans are for the particular property, see what they will allow. this can all be done before you buy and these meeting with the council architects are free.
> 
> the other thing to think about is expansion, if you are thinking that if all goes well with your business you may want to expand the accomodation, adding some extra rooms, or self-catering units, swimming pool, yoga studio/room in the future, its important to find out if this can be done, some properties, due to the type of zone they are in will not be allowed to be increased in size, some reserve land regions no building will be allowed at all, not even pools, garages etc.
> this can also be checked out before you buy.
> 
> You mention Cabacos, regions close to lakes have a lot of reserve land so best to check the zone you in, also in this region there are a few new motorway developments going on, (your agent probably already showed you the plan of the new IC3) but if not this is a major development affecting this region, to the east of Cabacos, best to check and see if/how it will effect you, a yoga retreat might not be too nice with a motorway at the edge of the garden (I have digital copies of the maps/plans for the road if you havent seen them yet)
> Good luck with your plans.


Many thanks for all this info. I've always been one for keeping on the right side of the law - helps me sleep at night, there are 2 houses on the land one will be main retreat house the other a cottage for me to live in.
The house will be 6 rooms all ensuite, the basement will be a perfect yoga studio and there is a separate outbuilding for an office and there is an integral garage. I will want to add a pool, so need to check that one. 
It will be an all inclusive holiday of yoga and accommodation, I would see the yoga as health/leisure. However I would also offer other training courses for other holistic therapies out of season so this may well be seen as separate
My agent mentioned the new IC3 but did not show me any plans so would greatly appreciate if you can let me have a copy.
Many thanks again


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## omostra06

Send me a link to the location of the house or a link to the property on a site and i can locate it on the road plan for you.
[email protected]


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## golden future

omostra06 said:


> Send me a link to the location of the house or a link to the property on a site and i can locate it on the road plan for you.
> [email protected]


If you mean a computer type link - sorry not very IT minded - then I've no idea but 
the address is Rua dos Picanco, Jordoes.
Many thanks


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## omostra06

golden future said:


> If you mean a computer type link - sorry not very IT minded - then I've no idea but
> the address is Rua dos Picanco, Jordoes.
> Many thanks


Is it this house?
if so the road is not getting built close by, maybe one klm away,to the east of the house. so should be no problem..


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## Bubbles67

Hello Golden Future...we are very near Cabacos and have been trying to get Yoga lessons here for ages..can't wait for you to get here. If you are buying though an estate agent then get them on the case, they will be able to contact the council for you to make initial enquiries about change of use.


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## golden future

Bubbles67 said:


> Hello Golden Future...we are very near Cabacos and have been trying to get Yoga lessons here for ages..can't wait for you to get here. If you are buying though an estate agent then get them on the case, they will be able to contact the council for you to make initial enquiries about change of use.


Hi Bubbles
Can't wait to get there, not that my students here are too happy but they can come for retreats.
I know my estate agent has checked with the council that it is in area approved for commercial use, so I will follow up with her .
Joining this forum seems to be a good move you are all so helpful and good to know I'll have some contacts when I arrive.
Thanks
Golden future


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## golden future

golden future said:


> Hi Bubbles
> Can't wait to get there, not that my students here are too happy but they can come for retreats.
> I know my estate agent has checked with the council that it is in area approved for commercial use, so I will follow up with her .
> Joining this forum seems to be a good move you are all so helpful and good to know I'll have some contacts when I arrive.
> Thanks
> Golden future


Hi
My estate agent tells me I can only apply for change of use once I've bought property but to discuss with council when I come out in a few weeks time to meet with builders for quotes. Is this other peoples experience, that i have to take a leap of faith and buy when I have no confirmation that I can have change of use?
Thanks
Golden Future


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## paulmanning

golden future said:


> Hi
> I'm new to forum and intending to move out in October ( house sales permitting), I too am looking for a Solicitor in Central Portugal, moving to Cabacos near Alvaiazere.
> My main concern at the moment is how I go about getting permission for change of use from residential to a yoga retreat - sort of B&B with yoga, because with out that then no point in buying the particular property.
> Golden Future


We have been in Alvaiazere for 3 years and have two kids at school and have set up our own limited company and have second house for renovation so we have pretty much been through the mill with every possible eventuality. 

We used an excellent lawyer in Pombal who helped us out on a few issues that could have been overlooked. They also assisted in a second purchase and advised us to walk away. If you want to PM me I can give you their details.


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## omostra06

golden future said:


> Hi
> My estate agent tells me I can only apply for change of use once I've bought property but to discuss with council when I come out in a few weeks time to meet with builders for quotes. Is this other peoples experience, that i have to take a leap of faith and buy when I have no confirmation that I can have change of use?
> Thanks
> Golden Future


No, you can have it confirmed before you part with your cash.....speak to the council they will tell you if it will ever be possible, how long it will take,( a project takes around one year) costs etc.
you dont want to buy a property to run a certian type of business only to find out after you have bought that you cant use it!


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## golden future

omostra06 said:


> No, you can have it confirmed before you part with your cash.....speak to the council they will tell you if it will ever be possible, how long it will take,( a project takes around one year) costs etc.
> you dont want to buy a property to run a certian type of business only to find out after you have bought that you cant use it!


My thoughts exactly, estate agent just wants to sell property and equally not very up on this side of things, recommended I speak to engineer at council - rather than planning officer and then her accountant ? 
Itried to respond to your post re the planned road, but for some reason the system wouldn't let me, so just to confirm it is my house and thanks for info on the road.


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## omostra06

golden future said:


> My thoughts exactly, estate agent just wants to sell property and equally not very up on this side of things, recommended I speak to engineer at council - rather than planning officer and then her accountant ?
> Itried to respond to your post re the planned road, but for some reason the system wouldn't let me, so just to confirm it is my house and thanks for info on the road.


If this is indeed the house then a couple of things need to be checked out, your agent will no doubt already gone through these points with you on this particular property, but just incase you are unaware.

1, the house comes with an old cottage in the garden, you need to see if this building is registered, if its not then a project may have to be submitted showing the cottage, to get it legalised, if you intend to use it as a house in the future.

2, this property has a public right of way across it,(about half way down the land to the rear) you need to be aware of this right of way and how it will affect your plans for the property, these rights of way in Portugal can not be altered, moved or closed,(no fence or wall) even if they look like they are not well used there is nothing to say that someone may start driving cattle or sheep across it in the future, you dont want that while your guests sit by the pool.

3, if you want a swimming pool, speak to the planning department, tell them you want a pool, where you want it, location on the land, size, etc. same goes for any other structures, garage,carport, covered terraces,etc, ask the council first, see if what you want to do with the property will be allowed.

apart from that its a good size house with nice land and good views. good luck with your plans


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## golden future

omostra06 said:


> If this is indeed the house then a couple of things need to be checked out, your agent will no doubt already gone through these points with you on this particular property, but just incase you are unaware.
> 
> 1, the house comes with an old cottage in the garden, you need to see if this building is registered, if its not then a project may have to be submitted showing the cottage, to get it legalised, if you intend to use it as a house in the future.
> 
> 2, this property has a public right of way across it,(about half way down the land to the rear) you need to be aware of this right of way and how it will affect your plans for the property, these rights of way in Portugal can not be altered, moved or closed,(no fence or wall) even if they look like they are not well used there is nothing to say that someone may start driving cattle or sheep across it in the future, you dont want that while your guests sit by the pool.
> 
> 3, if you want a swimming pool, speak to the planning department, tell them you want a pool, where you want it, location on the land, size, etc. same goes for any other structures, garage,carport, covered terraces,etc, ask the council first, see if what you want to do with the property will be allowed.
> 
> apart from that its a good size house with nice land and good views. good luck with your plans


Thanks again.
I do know about the cottage and have viewed it as this will be my living accommodation and it does have a habitation licence.
However I had not been made aware of the right of way.
I had assummed I would need planning for the pool, I have drawn plans to show the alterations and additions I intend to make and I now have the name of a lawyer to contact to help me with planning application.
Luckily the garage is integral so thats one off the list.
This forum is proving incredibly useful!
Cheers


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## omostra06

golden future said:


> Thanks again.
> I do know about the cottage and have viewed it as this will be my living accommodation and it does have a habitation licence.
> However I had not been made aware of the right of way.
> I had assummed I would need planning for the pool, I have drawn plans to show the alterations and additions I intend to make and I now have the name of a lawyer to contact to help me with planning application.
> Luckily the garage is integral so thats one off the list.
> This forum is proving incredibly useful!
> Cheers


Its an architect you will need to help you if you are putting a planning application in, you dont need a lawyer to do this, it will only add to your costs unnecessarily
Asking for a pool and getting permission, the pool company should take care of the application.

i have marked the right of way across the land for you,


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## golden future

omostra06 said:


> Its an architect you will need to help you if you are putting a planning application in, you dont need a lawyer to do this, it will only add to your costs unnecessarily
> Asking for a pool and getting permission, the pool company should take care of the application.
> 
> i have marked the right of way across the land for you,


Hi
This is great to see an overview of the land. I did walk the land and as its been empty for 2 yrs its very overgrown and no sign of any pathway trodden down and it is a good distance from the house and a lonely goatherd travelling through could add to the authenticity! 
I'll use a lawyer for the change of use, I've spoken to him today and it appears that I cannot apply it has to be the present owner who lives in Canada so some complex paper work and he'll check out what I need for other therapies such as Reiki that I intend to provide. I wasn't intending to use an architect as I am absolutely clear about what I want.
This forum is the best thing ever!


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## omostra06

If you are submitting a planning application then you must use an Architect...
there is no choice, they must prepare the project for you, its not about asking the architect to come up with designs and ideas, although they will if you ask them, its just that they are the only people that can prepare and submit the drawings for the project. then if you have a project approved you need to use a registered builder, so no DIY.

However.
If the changes you are planning are internal only, then maybe no planning will be required, although for the pool you will need a license.

I just done a quick check on the house for you and I am still not sure about the cottage in the garden, I think it is not registered, have you seen a deed for this house and a seperate deed for the bigger house?
the little cottage is too old to have a habitation license so there will not be one of these, but there should be adeed showing the cottage and whatever land comes with it.?

only the property owner can apply for planning permission to the property, as has been pointed out to you by the lawyer, but its unlikely that an owner will even think about getting involved in long planning applications on property that they just want to sell, also if the application is in their name, what happens when you buy the house? do you reapply? or do you wait (upto one year) before buying the house for the planning to come through?
so normally the new owner(you) does the applying for any projects or planning, this way you own/control the application and work.
This is the normal process, now if the planning cant be done untill after you own the property and its in your name, this leaves you the problem of what happens if what you plan to do is not allowed?
which takes us right back to the original point that ALL these checks have to be done before you buy the property.

so any work that you want to do to the house, its better to know in advance if it can be done, pool, change of use etc. so speak to the council planners first before you buy, they will tell you what can be done, if they say that all the work can be done, then at least you can buy in confidence knowing that you will be able to do the changes you want. better to be safe than sorry when it comes to buying and planning.


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## golden future

omostra06 said:


> If you are submitting a planning application then you must use an Architect...
> there is no choice, they must prepare the project for you, its not about asking the architect to come up with designs and ideas, although they will if you ask them, its just that they are the only people that can prepare and submit the drawings for the project. then if you have a project approved you need to use a registered builder, so no DIY.
> 
> However.
> If the changes you are planning are internal only, then maybe no planning will be required, although for the pool you will need a license.
> 
> I just done a quick check on the house for you and I am still not sure about the cottage in the garden, I think it is not registered, have you seen a deed for this house and a seperate deed for the bigger house?
> the little cottage is too old to have a habitation license so there will not be one of these, but there should be adeed showing the cottage and whatever land comes with it.?
> 
> only the property owner can apply for planning permission to the property, as has been pointed out to you by the lawyer, but its unlikely that an owner will even think about getting involved in long planning applications on property that they just want to sell, also if the application is in their name, what happens when you buy the house? do you reapply? or do you wait (upto one year) before buying the house for the planning to come through?
> so normally the new owner(you) does the applying for any projects or planning, this way you own/control the application and work.
> This is the normal process, now if the planning cant be done untill after you own the property and its in your name, this leaves you the problem of what happens if what you plan to do is not allowed?
> which takes us right back to the original point that ALL these checks have to be done before you buy the property.
> 
> so any work that you want to do to the house, its better to know in advance if it can be done, pool, change of use etc. so speak to the council planners first before you buy, they will tell you what can be done, if they say that all the work can be done, then at least you can buy in confidence knowing that you will be able to do the changes you want. better to be safe than sorry when it comes to buying and planning.


Thanks, obviously is because I want to make all the checks before I buy that I am making these enquiries.
All the alterations to the main house are internal, so as you say no building planning permission required, it is just change of use, hence a lawyer not an architect.
The estate agents details do advertise the cottage as being sold with a habitation licence, however I take your point and will double check.
Although a discussion with the council is necessary to gauge their reaction, as you said in an earlier email, as with all planning applications, neighbours have to be consulted so I think it would be helpful to go through the present owner to get planning, I'm sure he would see it as a way of getting a sale.
Thanks so much for all your help.


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## cieloytierra

paulmanning said:


> We have been in Alvaiazere for 3 years and have two kids at school and have set up our own limited company and have second house for renovation so we have pretty much been through the mill with every possible eventuality.
> 
> We used an excellent lawyer in Pombal who helped us out on a few issues that could have been overlooked. They also assisted in a second purchase and advised us to walk away. If you want to PM me I can give you their details.


Hello--- although this post is a bit old, I am hoping you are still around in the forum  Please can you share the name and contact of that particular solicitor?

Many thanks in advance for your help


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## golden future

Hi I used this lawyer when things went badly wrong with my house and although started off full of enthusism and promises when he came up against the camara he was only inrterested in saving his own skin and let medown big time. Try Delfina Goncalves in Alvaiazere.


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## cieloytierra

golden future said:


> Hi I used this lawyer when things went badly wrong with my house and although started off full of enthusism and promises when he came up against the camara he was only inrterested in saving his own skin and let medown big time. Try Delfina Goncalves in Alvaiazere.



Thank you Golden time -- we got a solicitor which was recommended to us, contacted her urgently - said she could do the job, but we haven't her from her. Contacted her last Friday! She is doing exactly like two others solicitors we had....they seem all the same here!


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## omostra06

In my opinion, only reliable laywer in the region is luis Duis in Tomar, 
you will dissmiss many for not doing a good job, seems the standard of service from lawyers is very low, when you find a good one keep him.


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## hipdave

omostra06 said:


> I have the contact details of several good lawyers in central Portugal, let me know what region and i can send you some contacts.


Derek,

Unfortunately we need to settle back in the UK and have a wonderful property near Tomar that we will be putting on the market. It would be really helpful to have the details of good solicitors in and around the area that, preferably, speak English but essentially answer emails, normally not a Portuguese strong point.

Many thanks


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## golden future

I would not recommend this lawyer, has created the biggest mess and I've lost everything.


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## canoeman

hipdave said:


> Derek,
> 
> Unfortunately we need to settle back in the UK and have a wonderful property near Tomar that we will be putting on the market. It would be really helpful to have the details of good solicitors in and around the area that, preferably, speak English but essentially answer emails, normally not a Portuguese strong point.
> 
> Many thanks


*As the seller* you don't reguire a Solicitor unless you have some legal issues to resolve, if CGT tax will be an issue then Financas would not accept their fees as an expense


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## hipdave

Thank you


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## tayub

*lawyer required Coimbra central portugal*



omostra06 said:


> I have the contact details of several good lawyers in central Portugal, let me know what region and i can send you some contacts.




Hi there, i saw a few reliable posts from yourself and was hoping if you could help, i new to the forum. we are looking to purchase a plot in the Croimbra are of central portugal. Can you recommend any reliable yet cheaply priced lawyers and notaries at all please? Will i need both? thanks v muchlane:


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## canoeman

Yes a lawyer acts for you and checks everything is kosher or should.

Notary is a public body whose function in a sale to check everything again and register title of ownership etc


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## penpal

Coud you give me contact details for Luis Duis? I've googled him but he doesn't show in the search. Many thanks.


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## scoot

Hi Omostra
We are looking for an english speaking lawyer to do a will for us near Cabacos (Alviazera, Ansio, Tomar would work). I know your post was a long time ago but hoping you may be able to help us


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## travelling-man

scoot said:


> Hi Omostra
> We are looking for an english speaking lawyer to do a will for us near Cabacos (Alviazera, Ansio, Tomar would work). I know your post was a long time ago but hoping you may be able to help us


you need at least 5 posts before you can send/receive PMs but if you clock those up & then send me a PM I'll give you the contact details for a very good, English speaking lawyer in that area.


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## Strontium

scoot said:


> Hi Omostra
> We are looking for an english speaking lawyer to do a will for us near Cabacos (Alviazera, Ansio, Tomar would work). I know your post was a long time ago but hoping you may be able to help us


Hi, omostra06, who started this agency (I have no connection with it) Central Portugal Properties- Chavetejo Real Estate
sold up and left Portugal/this forum years ago.


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