# Partner Visa Refusal



## mrustean (Feb 20, 2014)

Hi Everyone,
Not sure how to express my total anger & frustration at this barbaric system. My partner & I applied for a partner visa & paid for the express service. My partner is British with Dual British & Australian Citizenship.
We have been in constant contact with UK Border Agency over the last 3 years & have undertaken everything we have been told to do.
My visa was refused today as UK Border agency stated that we did not prove we were a genuine couple. They insist we are just flat mates. We are totally shocked & guttered.
We were told we did not give enough proof of a genuine relationship yet we provided a whole 4 year time line of our relationship with photos, we provided proof we both lived at the same address in Australia as requested.
We in fact had a civil ceremony in October 2011 as I was unable to obtain my divorce as my ex husband was on military service & he could not be served to cut a long story short The Family Court of Australia finally granted me a divorce in 1 day in May 2013. Due to this madness we were not legally married in 2012 but as we had already cancelled the wedding 2 times we decided to go ahead with it. We asked UK Border Agency if we could marry in the UK & were told no as I was on a visitor visa we were told if we tried to marry I would be deported. So we stuck to the rules. They now say we did not take the opportunity to marry whilst I was in the UK but they said we were unable to do so.
In Australia we did not have a joint bank account as I was still going through my divorce & child support case & we were legally advised not to complicate the case by joining bank accounts. The house in Australia was already owned by my husband for 10 years prior to our meeting so we did not have a mortgage together. This is another reason we were rejected.
We did provide a brochure of the Australian house when we sold it & all correspondence addressed to us both regarding the sale.
We also provided airline tickets of proof that after I came back to Australia last year at the end of my 6 month visitor visa we met in Bangkok to see each other. In June last year we could hold out no longer so I went to Spain & rented a flat for 3 months my partner flew over 12 weekends out of 14 & we provided all the airline tickets we were told this just proved we were friends visiting each other. 
We also provide all our Skype chat printouts of the entire time we were separated this was over 100 pages again we were told just friends chatting (every day).
We provided letters from friends & family as requested this we were told today was not valid & hearsay. So why do they ask for such letters then accuse our friends of being liars.
We provided as requested a copy of our joint lease in the Uk. There response that just proved we are flat mates.
Then I was told that we had not undertaken to open a joint bank account in the Uk but as everyone knows as I was only on a visitors visa I was unable to open a UK bank account. I do have a visa debit card attacked to my husbands British bank account but we were told that we did not need to provide this. 
We also have proof that at different times we have both been sending each other financial support. We were also told that as I am not in the UK we are not living together well dah I had to leave the country to apply for the bloody visa.
So basically from what we have been told since we have not broken any laws we will never be able to proof we are a genuine couple.

Any thoughts woud be appreciated.
Not sure how to appeal this madness.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

To advise you further, please give us a timeline of your previous and current relationships, such as when the first relationship started, date of first marriage, divorce proceedings, start of new relationship, any periods of cohabitation (other than spending weekends together), any joint financial responsibility etc.
Have you studied http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/s...DIs/chp8-annex/section-FM2.1.pdf?view=Binary?


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## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

Few months back, i was in your shoes and was in a quite similar situation. Visa refusal was all about my ex, all about not having a genuine relationship with ex etc...

It is up to you if you want to appeal but I've been told it will be more expensive and longer procedure.

Best of luck.  (your post brought me back to when we received the refusal letter, it made me sad)


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## cc9 (Oct 29, 2012)

Hi I am saddened to hear if your refusal but not surprised. My husband was refused his visa as the ECO believed our relationship was not subsisting and that we do not intend to live permanently together in the UK.
He too had been married previously and had a previous visitor visa refusal which was a fairly complicated one.
We are currently in the process of appealing as we are sure that no matter how much evidence we would supply for a fresh application they will still refuse his visa. We supplied 30 photographs of us together, 2 years of phone bills, Skype records, Facebook messaging, texts and viber communication. Along with my flight history to his country.
You need to decide if you can address all their concerns in a fresh application if not appeal may be your only option. We appealed in December and currently the ECM has until the end of May to review the decision. We then face more months waiting for a tribunal date. Appeal is a long process and we have instructed a solicitor as it is also a complicated process.
I hope this information can help you make your decision. 
Good luck


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## AmyD (Jan 12, 2013)

I am not sure how helpful this will be but there is something about your tone that somehow does it make it sound like you're just roommates. I think maybe you're not adding any emotion into your statements? And you're not really saying anything that two romantic partners would say. You sound a bit wooden and businesslike, focused on the wrong thing, like the wedding that wasn't a wedding. The whole married but not married thing needs to be cut because it just confuses things. 

When you reapply, maybe add a bit more emotion into it. I say this as someone who has advised in the past not to gush because it is a business transaction. But I think your style requires it.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

UKBA look for continued devotion and commitment. It's a subjective concept but sure, emotion comes into it, which you can skilfully weave into your letters of introduction and sponsorship without making them into love letters. If you need help, let us know.


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## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

AmyD said:


> I am not sure how helpful this will be but there is something about your tone that somehow does it make it sound like you're just roommates. I think maybe you're not adding any emotion into your statements? And you're not really saying anything that two romantic partners would say. You sound a bit wooden and businesslike, focused on the wrong thing, like the wedding that wasn't a wedding. The whole married but not married thing needs to be cut because it just confuses things.
> 
> When you reapply, maybe add a bit more emotion into it. I say this as someone who has advised in the past not to gush because it is a business transaction. But I think your style requires it.


I completely agree with you.

When we re-applied for fiance visa for my partner, i had asked a hundred times to different people if my statement was right... we have to be very careful and also not too defensive or things like that.


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## mrustean (Feb 20, 2014)

*Response to Visa refusal*

Joppa,
,
I have always been more than happy to inform UK Border Agency of my previous relationship & in fact have in over 40 phone conversations over the last 2 years kept them informed. I married my first husband in May 1990 We were together officially until 3rd September 2008. We had stopped living together in September 2007 but tried to work it out. I met my new partner in March 2010 at the theatre. We knew in a very short time that we had met our soul mates. My son fell in love with my new partner from their very first meeting.
I had already tried by then to serve divorce papers on my first husband 3 times hard to do on a lock down military base. Finally after the 5th attempt & still no indication from my ex husband or the Australian Navy I was granted by The Family Court of Australia an instant Divorce nisi. I was even granted a very unusual instant divorce I did not have to wait the 30 days that are usually required as the Family Court felt that I had already endured enough.
My partner & I had already cancelled our wedding twice due to this matter & we were promised by the Chaplin to the Navy that this would be done in time for a October wedding as you can imagine it was not. We were also informed that my partners mother was in rapidly failing health in the Uk & we wanted her to share our special day. In the end we discussed our options with our friend who was going to marry us & decided to go ahead with the ceremony as to us the spiritual aspect of publically sharing our love & our friends love was the most important thing to us nothing that a piece of paper could change. 
We were able to Skype the ceremony to my partners mother in the UK prior to her death & this to us is a blessing.
I did go on a few dates after I let my husband but as I was not looking for a 1 night stand most only lasted 1 to 2 dates.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Phoning UKBA won't establish anything as they don't put contents into your file to be recalled when processing your application. Your application must be complete in every way and must contain all the information required for them to make a decision.
What did you put into your letters of introduction and sponsorship, and did they give a full picture of the state of your relationship?


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## mrustean (Feb 20, 2014)

Joppa, 
My partner & I have lived together since Easter 2010 & lived together in the same house until we left for the UK. My partner left first but after 2 weeks came home as we were unable to bear the separation we then went to the UK within 24 hours of each other in September 2012. I was on a tourist visa I stayed for the full 6 months & we were not separated during that time. I then returned to Australia in March 2013 but was unable to apply for my visa as my partner had not been in his new job for 6 months. After 6 weeks we were so desperate to see each other we met in Bangkok for a week. I again returned to Australia after 8 weeks we again were desperate to see each other so we made the decision that I would move to Spain for 3 months so my partner could fly over every weekend. In June 2013 I flew to London & we flew to Spain together. For the next 3 months my partner would every Friday night Catch a train to Bristol then a bus then a plane to Girona then another bus into town where I & our 2 puppies would be waiting for him. We then had our amazing 41 hours together before he left again. Every Sunday I would make a roast lunch & we would then walk together to the bus for his 8 hour return journey. We endured 12 weeks of this all for 41 hours but it was worth every second. In September 2013 I was able to go back to the UK on a visitor visa. We were strongly advised by UK Border Agency that even though I could finally apply for my visa in November 2013 it was to close to Christmas so stay together in the UK for Christmas. I returned to Australia in January 2014. We have kept UK Border Agency up to date at every stage . We tried to get legally married in Spain but were unable to do so as I was not an EU or Spanish resident. We asked permission to Marry when I returned to the UK & spoke with the council officer. We were advised by both the council & UK Border Agency that on a visitor visa we could not marry & if we did so I would be deported & banned from entering the UK for up to 10 years. So we followed the rules.


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## mrustean (Feb 20, 2014)

We are going to apply for visa again as we feel very strongly on this & honestly we cannot endure the separation for months. We are also lodging an official complaint against the Agency as we strongly believe we have been discriminated against. We feel very strongly that the whole visa process is unjust against our human rights, The right to family & barbaric. We feel strongly that the whole visa system needs to be held in account & made into an honest open fair process. We have already lodged an official complaint about UK Border Agency & there quit honestly questionable practices we are still waiting for a reply 10 months later. We have now involved our local MP in the UK, who is also hitting a brick wall. 
What a pity UK Border Agency do not bother having a face to face interview with couples or come into their home. I can say that as with anyone who has met us people instantly know how crazy we are for each other. In Australia our house was the center of most parties & barbeques we would host 30/50 of our friends at a time often until 3am we hosted all of our single friends for Christmas & were always sneaking away for romantic short breaks. Something that made our friends laugh. Our wedding day as described by our friends was 1 of the most fun, happy love filled days they had witnessed. We made it a huge celebration of our love. Again UK Border have no interest in this. We could happily show them our wedding dance being serenaded by our friends or the male bridal party singing to me. We could share our very personal letters to each other on our wedding day. we could share how we were so keen to see each other before the craziness of the wedding started that we met for coffee at our favorite café before the ceremony.
My husband moved into our new home in 2013 whilst I was in Australia & I moved in September 2013. Our street is small only 4 houses but already our house is the center of our little community. The neighbors all pop in for tea we have hosted the Guy faulks night, roast dinners & we also hosted the street Christmas party at our house. We also had a farewell tea party when I left. Sadly UK Border Agency are not interested in any of that. They do not ask people who know you to describe the relationship


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## mrustean (Feb 20, 2014)

Pultet,
I hope you have been able to obtain the correct visa if you are in love & genuine please never give up. Your love is worth it.


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## mrustean (Feb 20, 2014)

cc9,
I will keep positive thoughts for you.
We have made the decision to apply for the visa again as we know we are a genuine couple & we never intend to give up the fight. We were advised not to give to much information to overwhelm UKBA. We were told the only information we had to supply regarding our previous marriages were the divorce papers. We were also advised to show just 1 thing each from our Australia address as my partner had owned the house for 10 years prior to our meeting. We did supply the paperwork in both our names regarding the sale of the house. We were not told we needed to show proof we supported each other with money & in fact were advised to not to send the information we had regarding the access to each others bank accounts. Mine in Australia his in Uk. We are now going to get that mountain of proof & send it all with a very detailed letter. How dare they accuse us of been dishonest liars. We have both worked in our communities for over 20 years & have both never been in any legal trouble.


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## mrustean (Feb 20, 2014)

AmyD,
I was raised that private matters where just that & as you say I believed that we needed to conduct ourselves in a professional manner & that this was a business transaction. My partner & I believed that being to personal would be a negative. We did supply a timeline of our relationship with over 30 photos. Not sure we can inject anymore emotion into such a devastating situation. We also went over our application for a week & felt that it was everything that was asked for. We strongly believe the best way for UK Border Agency will ever know if a couple are genuine is speak with them face to face speak with people in their lives & honestly drop in on us over the next 5 years. You know we would be more than happy for UKBA to even follow us secretly at times as we know we are genuine. How to get that on paper & be professional.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

Perhaps if you had shared your application (the gist of it) with us, we might have spotted some issues and would have advised you before submitting. 
You keep using the word 'advised' - have you worked with a lawyer or professional advisor?


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## mrustean (Feb 20, 2014)

Joppa,
sorry but not sure how to achieve this. I mean we could tell them lots of personal things but how this helps I do not know as it is all hearsay. I could show them the love letters we wrote each other on our wedding day & the touch of Britain I gave my partner as a gift a little British bulldog holding a watch for my partner to wear on our special day or show them the diamond earrings that I never take off a present from my partner when we first met. I could write them a story about how my partner told me to pack for a surprise weekend away & whisked me to Tasmania to propose to me on the top of Mount Wellington, then drove me to my Aunt & Uncles to ask them for my hand in marriage as I had just lost my mother the previous year. How I organized a secret engagement dinner party in front of our closest friends & presented my partner with his own engagement ring. How he organized for my Aunt & Uncle who are in their 80's to be in Melbourne for our wedding in place of my mother.
How we wrote love poems to our bridal party our dearest friends on our special day. How my son cried with happiness as he walked me down the aisle . How my best friend serenaded me as I walked into the chapel & my partners best friend sung Ava Maria as we left the chapel. How our other dear friend sung us a special Russian wedding dance as another friend taped it.
How do we tell them about the special things we do every day. I am woken every morning with a hot cup of tea & a kiss my partner blow dry's my hair every second day rain or shine he also rubs foot cream into my feet every night as I suffer leg cramps. How every evening when I hear his key in the door I made him a cup of tea as our girls great him at the door & how I rub oil into his back every night.
How do I share that since meeting me & sharing our bed due to my medical background my partner was finally diagnosed with life threatening sleep apnea & now sleeps with a special mask. Our friends & I call him my night Dark Vader.
How do I put into words being taken to Paris for Christmas in 2012 the 1 place I had always wanted to see a place my first husband refused to take me.
As UKBA told us this is all hearsay & they are not interested in any of it. But to us this is the very fabric of who we are & our love for each other. That cannot be put into official words.

We gave a very clear picture of who we are & the status of our relationship. We gave ample proof of the lengths we have gone to not be separated. We were told that a friend or flat mate would fly to Spain every weekend for 12 weeks just to hang out for 41 hours. Total madness.

Regarding the joint finances as I was still undergoing an ongoing child support court case we were advised not to have a joint account but we did transfer money into each others accounts & have a cash debit card for each others accounts. My husband could also use my credit card facilities.

Joppa,
When we made the decision to settle back in the UK so my partner could be close to his large family. I am an only child & both my parents are deceased. We called UKBA at least 10 times prior to even leaving Australia. We were told by them to read the website keep up to date with the website & keep in contact with UKBA staff via the phone help line. We did this. We were also advised by UKBA that we did not need a visa specialist as most do not know the rules. We complied with everything we were asked to do. We were given so much incorrect & misleading information that 10 months ago we lodged a complaint & also asked our local MP in the UK to intervene on our behalf after see details of our case he agreed. We are still waiting for the outcome.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

You should really sit down with experienced lawyer/advisor and go through the refusal letter line by line, and plan a strategy for appeal or fresh application. We can't possibly advise if we haven't seen your evidence or read through your application. While I can understand your disappointment, anger and frustration, you need a cool head to prepare your next move. I always say you should work with UKBA, not against them.


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## Pultet (Sep 17, 2013)

mrustean said:


> Pultet,
> I hope you have been able to obtain the correct visa if you are in love & genuine please never give up. Your love is worth it.


I have re-applied 2nd time answering all their refusal grounds in bullet points. they were okay with it but got visa refused because of ENGLISH requirement..

We have re-applied for the 3rd time and waiting for their decision. Thank you, best of luck.


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## Joppa (Sep 7, 2009)

I am closing this thread until you have anything new to add in a new thread.


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