# Life in Japan after the honeymoon period



## densuke

I would just like to get an idea of peoples experiences of living in Japan for an extended period of time. It is possible that for both personal and professional reasons I may settle permanently in Japan (in or near Tokyo). After a certain period of time do thing start to grate on you? or do you find you adapt to the new country? I know it will largely depend on the type of person one is, but if people have any comments I would like to hear them.

Thanks.


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## larabell

My experience is that you really don't get the hang of the place till you've been there at least a year or two. Before that, there's still enough "newness" to keep you distracted. Not long after that, though, it's not unusual for little things to start to grate on you. Apparently annoyance takes a bit longer to wear off then newness -- but that has to depend a lot on the person and how willing they are to assimilate the culture. But I've found that after a number of years, even the annoyances tend to fall away as you learn more about how things *really* work and things aren't so "different" any more. That seems especially the case if you shuttle back-and-forth on a semi-regular basis. When I go back to the States, I find even more things there that grate on me than I experience here. Maybe part of the trick is to realize that no matter where you go, there will be a certain level of annoyance and that's probably more a personal matter than a cultural one.

I was also discussing with a friend a few years ago a phenomenon he called "reverse culture shock". Once you've been in a foreign place for several years and you've gotten used to the way things are in your new location, when you go back home, you have a similar reaction to when you first left because of the change. He told me he read somewhere that the expected period of reverse culture shock when you return is about half the length of time you had been away. I do recall things feelng kindof out-of-place for a while when I moved back the first time but in my case I also moved to a different city from when I left so that could have had an impact on the "shock" I experienced, too.

I think if you get past the first couple years -- and if you're flexible enough to learn new ways of doing things rather than stubbornly insisting that everything work the way it did when you grew up, you shouldn't have any trouble making Japan your permanent home. At least as long as your visa holds up ;-)...


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## densuke

Hi larabell,

Thanks for your reply. In my line of work the visa is not a problem, so one thing less to think about. I have only been in Japan for 7 months, but when I went back to the UK for Christmas I did find a big difference in politeness on things like public transport - mind you London undergound has never had a great reputation!

Yeah I think things should be OK, as long as I am able to see family and friends back in the UK form time to time. 

Thanks again for your comments.


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## Singapore Saint

I find that any annoyances are of my own making.. i.e I may get frustrated when shopping, speaking to people, ordering in restaurants, paying bills, ordering online etc, but I feel that it's of my own making as I am still learning the language. I've also only been here for 7 months but happily accept that some countries work differently to others.

However, when I first moved to Singapore, where I spent 7yrs, it was a totally different story.. Lots of "WHY CAN'T THIS COUNTRY WORK PROPERLY!" moments (shouted out at the top of my voice within my house, not to anyone's face!) and got very frustrated with even the smallest things.

You just get used to the way things work. Having been away from the UK for almost 8yrs, I'd probably have many "WHY CAN'T THIS COUNTRY WORK!" moments if I went back home, as Larabell says with the 'Reverse Culture Shock" But then, looking at the situation in the UK right now, it may be a valid question!


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## larabell

Looking at the situation in the States, I find myself asking that question all the time...


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## expatriotically

In my experience, at first there is a sense of wonderment at everything new and different. Most people soon forget, but most would agree that at first, Japan can make quite a strong positive impression on you and lure you further in. But after getting settled, study Japanese and starting a job you may start to experience your first bouts with culture shock. After a while some things can really get to you. I have had ups and downs but most of the culture shock I felt as a foreigner was a reflection of just how little I was prepared to accept foreign values and adapt. We all have our limits and you may eventually find yours here in Japan. But overall, it has been a worthwhile experience and I for one and sticking around.


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## expatpharmd

larabell said:


> Apparently annoyance takes a bit longer to wear off then newness -- but that has to depend a lot on the person and how willing they are to assimilate the culture. But I've found that after a number of years, even the annoyances tend to fall away as you learn more about how things *really* work and things aren't so "different" any more. That seems especially the case if you shuttle back-and-forth on a semi-regular basis. When I go back to the States, I find even more things there that grate on me than I experience here. Maybe part of the trick is to realize that no matter where you go, there will be a certain level of annoyance and that's probably more a personal matter than a cultural one.


Do people stage chance encounters with you? As in, do they deliberately put themselves in your path at times when they know you'll be there so when you walk by they'll pop right out at you to ambush you with forced socializing, pretending it's a coincidence that you ran into each other even though we all know they were waiting for you the entire time? Or do Japanese people have better things to do with their time? 

Do people think you owe them friendship for no reason? Or will they actually earn it instead of feeling entitled to it? 

Is it customary to say hi to neighbors and strangers on the street? Or do Japanese people prefer not to talk to strangers?


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## larabell

expatpharmd said:


> Is it customary to say hi to neighbors and strangers on the street? Or do Japanese people prefer not to talk to strangers?


That probably depends on a lot of things but that's one area which I feel is not much different from what I'm used to. In anonymous situations, like on a train, I find that people pretty much keep to themselves. But most of my neighbors and I exchange greetings when we're out and it's not unusual for someone I don't know to try to strike up a conversation when I'm hanging out at the local bar. I've lived in the same neighborhood for 14 years now so, around here, I'm pretty well known.

I've never had the experience of a "staged" social encounter. And while I've found many people here to be friendly on the surface, the status of "friend" usually has to be earned in both directions. But my experience suggests that has just as much to do with oneself as it does with the other person. If people are waiting around for the chance to impose themselves upon you, maybe you just come off as the kind of guy who welcomes chance social encounters.


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## expatpharmd

larabell said:


> That probably depends on a lot of things but that's one area which I feel is not much different from what I'm used to. In anonymous situations, like on a train, I find that people pretty much keep to themselves. But most of my neighbors and I exchange greetings when we're out and it's not unusual for someone I don't know to try to strike up a conversation when I'm hanging out at the local bar. I've lived in the same neighborhood for 14 years now so, around here, I'm pretty well known.


Are there neighborhoods where it's NOT customary for neighbors to approach you? I've lived in the same neighborhood for 2 decades somewhere else and had no neighbor ever approach me for pointless conversation, and that's the type of neighborhood I'm looking to live in. And I was able to remain completely anonymous for those 2 decades in that neighborhood, too.

EDIT: Specifically, I'm looking to live in a small house out in the middle of nowhere. I want the distance between me and the nearest neighbor to be at least a kilometer. That should minimize the chances that people will become aware of my existence and should ensure that no one will have any desire to talk to me.

EDIT: I also don't do social stuff like bars and night clubs, and spend most of my free time at home. How likely would it be that people would start caring that I exist?



> I've never had the experience of a "staged" social encounter. And while I've found many people here to be friendly on the surface, the status of "friend" usually has to be earned in both directions. But my experience suggests that has just as much to do with oneself as it does with the other person. If people are waiting around for the chance to impose themselves upon you, maybe you just come off as the kind of guy who welcomes chance social encounters.


So I should be as anti-social and unfriendly as possible so people will have no desire to talk to me. Gotcha.


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## expatpharmd

My inquiry is not just addressed to larabell, but to anybody that has lived in Japan for a significant amount of time.


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## Rube

We're gaijins, we'll be gaijins till we die. Doesn't matter how long you live here, how good your japanese is, or how well you adjust to the culture, end of the day you're a gaijin. There's always going to be a seperation that at times can be sad for long timers. In fact most of the long timers I know are semi-hermits and loners in a sense. There's always that seperation from Japanese and the longer you're here there is more seperation from other gaijins who have been here for less time than yourself. Don't get me wrong, I love it, but I accept that shade of seperation and appreciate the freedom that is the flip side.


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## expatpharmd

I'm not interested in socializing. I WANT there to be some kind of separation. As long as that separation prevents people from being interested in approaching me. I want the freedom to NOT socialize. I want the freedom to wander aimlessly through the city without concern over whether or not someone has been planted in my path, plotting to make friends with me or date me. I want the freedom to not be expected to get to know my neighbors. I want the freedom of knowing that I don't have to revolve my life around deflecting people from trying to bond with me and can revolve my life around improving its quality. I want the freedom to NOT socialize.


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## Rube

Than it's perfect for ya. As far as people coming up to you, that's probably on you, anybody will get the occasional drunk guy who wants to talk about his American football days in college, I treat it like a bird dropping after you wash your car, part of life. The whole thing in Japan is that it's so crowded you don't have any personal space so to deal with it people avoid eye contact and try not to have anything to do with people out and about. The older you get the less people will try to approach you as well. Much easier to target a fresh faced 20 something who might want the contact than a 40 something.


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## expatpharmd

Rube said:


> Than it's perfect for ya. As far as people coming up to you, that's probably on you, anybody will get the occasional drunk guy who wants to talk about his American football days in college, I treat it like a bird dropping after you wash your car, part of life. The whole thing in Japan is that it's so crowded you don't have any personal space so to deal with it people avoid eye contact and try not to have anything to do with people out and about. The older you get the less people will try to approach you as well. Much easier to target a fresh faced 20 something who might want the contact than a 40 something.


I intend to tell anyone I meet there that I'm in my 40s anyway.


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## expatpharmd

Quick question: in America, it's considered "being nice" if someone imposes themselves into your life without your permission. If someone keeps trying to force their unwanted friendship onto you in Japan, would that be considered "being nice" or would that be considered "annoying pain in the ass?"


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## Rube

Those people are just considered weird. 

The easiest thing is to just tell the dude to leave you alone. Don't go tripping over yourself trying to be polite because you think you're in the land of manners and etiquette, it's fine to tell a freak to leave you alone. 

People might disagree with me but as far as I'm concerned your basic home town American upbringing is much more polite than your average Japanese upbringing. If you consider somebody rude they most likely are.


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## expatpharmd

Rube said:


> Those people are just considered weird.
> 
> The easiest thing is to just tell the dude to leave you alone. Don't go tripping over yourself trying to be polite because you think you're in the land of manners and etiquette, it's fine to tell a freak to leave you alone.
> 
> People might disagree with me but as far as I'm concerned your basic home town American upbringing is much more polite than your average Japanese upbringing. If you consider somebody rude they most likely are.


That's interesting, because I don't think Americans are polite at all. The fact that they expect friendship from me for no reason is one of the reasons why I would rather just go to Japan and not be surrounded by people who are constantly imposing their unwanted friendship onto me. In America, it's actually considered "being nice" if someone you despise constantly tries to make friends with you, even though you want absolutely nothing to do with these people. From what I've read about Japan, the Japanese generally don't assume that you want their friendship and will only approach you if you're at a bar, night club, or party. People who are at those things clearly want to socialize, so it's fair game. Which means, all I have to do is stay away from bars, night clubs, and parties, and most Japanese people should have no reason to assume that I want to socialize. This is a damn good way of socializing, since people who want to socialize will just go to bars, night clubs, and parties, while people who don't want to socialize will stay away from those things and not have to be bothered by strangers and their unwanted friendship.

In America, even though I NEVER show up at bars, night clubs, and parties, people just automatically assume that I like those things and want to live like that. That's why I attract huge amounts of party trash in every endeavor I take on. And that's why it's pointless to pursue much of anything in America, since in anything I pursue people will think that I like bars, night clubs, and parties for no reason whatsoever, even when all the evidence suggests that I HATE bars, night clubs, and parties, they'll still think I want to surround myself with that crap and try to make friends with me. I don't make friends with people who go to bars, night clubs, or parties. Period. I sure as hell don't date them either.


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## Rube

expatpharmd said:


> In America, even though I NEVER show up at bars, night clubs, and parties, people just automatically assume that I like those things and want to live like that. That's why I attract huge amounts of party trash in every endeavor I take on.


So you mean like candy ravers are approaching you on the street? 

All I can tell you is from reading your posts, I don't think you have to worry about people going out of their way to be friends with you here in Japan. Of course I don't think that's a problem for you in America either, but maybe some ravers did throw you in the boot of their car and took you to burning man for all I know.


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## expatpharmd

Rube said:


> So you mean like candy ravers are approaching you on the street?
> 
> All I can tell you is from reading your posts, I don't think you have to worry about people going out of their way to be friends with you here in Japan. Of course I don't think that's a problem for you in America either, but maybe some ravers did throw you in the boot of their car and took you to burning man for all I know.


In America, people are so worthless that they actually take time out of their day to stage chance encounters with me. They actually pretend it's a coincidence that we ran into each other when it's clearly not. That is how stupid they are. Even supposed "professionals" holding advanced degrees are not exempt from this stupid behavior. I am not impressed. I've met Japanese people before. They don't care that I exist. They're more interested in doing their own thing than brainwashing me into living their life. Americans are the opposite. They actually care that I don't live like an American, and they are obsessed with brainwashing me into becoming one. I do NOT want to live like an American, saying hi to neighbors and strangers for no reason. People in positions of authority actually DEMAND that I make friends with people I despise. I'm not allowed to sit in the back, isolated from everyone. I'm REQUIRED to sit in the center and mingle with people that I won't even miss when they're dead and gone. That is not freedom. I want the freedom to NOT socialize. Almost everything I love comes from Japan. The fact that the Japanese will give me my space instead of smothering me like America does has won me over to their side. I have no love for America. My dream life is impossible to achieve in America, but it has a chance to thrive in Japan. The logical course of action is to start over in Japan.


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## Rube

expatpharmd said:


> In America, people are so worthless that they actually take time out of their day to stage chance encounters with me.


Of course you realize that implies that you're worthless. 



expatpharmd said:


> They actually pretend it's a coincidence that we ran into each other when it's clearly not. That is how stupid they are. Even supposed "professionals" holding advanced degrees are not exempt from this stupid behavior. I am not impressed.


Hey dude sorry you aren't impressed by the people around you, but as they say, likes attract. 



expatpharmd said:


> I've met Japanese people before. They don't care that I exist. They're more interested in doing their own thing than brainwashing me into living their life. Americans are the opposite. They actually care that I don't live like an American, and they are obsessed with brainwashing me into becoming one. I do NOT want to live like an American


You sound like somebody with a very limited experience to be honest. I'd like to tell you to get out and see more of America, but maybe you don't have the means or the desire to get over your limited views of the world.



expatpharmd said:


> People in positions of authority actually DEMAND that I make friends with people I despise. I'm not allowed to sit in the back, isolated from everyone. I'm REQUIRED to sit in the center and mingle with people that I won't even miss when they're dead and gone. That is not freedom. I want the freedom to NOT socialize.


Again, I have no idea what you're going on about. Not sure if you're talking about work situations or in school but I don't actually believe a word of your story anyway. 



expatpharmd said:


> Almost everything I love comes from Japan. The fact that the Japanese will give me my space instead of smothering me like America does has won me over to their side.


Dragon ball?



expatpharmd said:


> I have no love for America. My dream life is impossible to achieve in America, but it has a chance to thrive in Japan. The logical course of action is to start over in Japan.


And yet you're stuck in America with candy ravers waiting for you around every corner. Don't worry guy, age will cure you of your ailes. Till then I don't think you'd really enjoy any place you live.


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## larabell

expatpharmd said:


> In Japan, *giving people space* is considered being POLITE.


In general, people here won't expect you to invite them to your home or discuss private affairs. But they *are* likely to expect you to be civil in public, which is something you might want to practice a bit before arriving.



> America has ZERO EMPATHY for me.


I wouldn't expect that to be any different no matter where you live. You expect people to respect your view of the world while you have no respect for theirs? I don't think this has as much to do with where you live as it has to do with who you are trying to be.



> They are so delusional that they actually think they can date me...


Somehow I find it hard to believe anyone could be that delusional... but I'll take your word for it.



> And for some reason you think I can afford a mansion.


Your cultural studies course obviously forgot to mention that a "mansion" in Japan is a typical concrete apartment building and that a large number of ordinary Tokyo residents live in mansions.



> In Japan, there is NO requirement to make small talk with my neighbors or co-workers.


I think you have a big surprise in store for you when you get here, but... give it a shot and report back how it went.



> By going to Japan, I won't have to "be American."


Sorry... but by actually *being* an American, you're going to stick out like a sort thumb here and attract every bimbo who happens to have a couple English lessons under their belt. You can forget about blending into the crowd. If that's what you want, move to Kansas... not Tokyo.


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## nemurigusuri

I am coming up on my first year in Japan and the honeymoon period wore off about 3 months in. I think living with the in-laws had a lot to do with it. In my opinion Japan is a fun place to shop, vacation, eat, and drink. But the living is not as easy as it was back in the States. I speak fluent Japanese but I still get treated unfairly here and many people do not want me to speak Japanese to them. Almost every time I meet a new person they ask me to teach them English. They make assumptions that I am either an English teacher or a College Student (I am neither). They make crazy assumptions about my lifestyle like I only want to eat hamburgers and drink coca cola all day long (I am a vegetarian, I don't drink Soda, and I am well acclimated to Japanese food), that I always wear shoes in my house (I rarely did that in the states because it is uncomfortable), that I hate green tea(I am actually a student of Japanese Tea ceremony), and that I want to drink coffee every morning(I don't drink coffee), etc. After a while it has started to get under my skin to the point where I am completely annoyed with meeting new people who are Japanese because I don't want to deal with them projecting their stereotypes on me and/or trying to get in some free English practice. People say "When in Rome..." but when the "Romans" are either handling you with gaijin-gloves or pretending you don't exist. It gets a little chafey. As a female here I am put in very awkward situations from time to time with other foreign men because Japanese people (who don't know me very well) assume I want to date a white foreign guy (I AM MARRIED!!). 

So now I just keep completely to myself and I refuse to meet new people not business related until they have been prompted ahead of time (usually by my husband, sister-in-law, or other friends) that I do not want to speak or teach them English, I am not a teacher or a student, and I am not interested in discussing the differences between Japan and the U.S., they are not to complement my Japanese unless they mean it, and they are not to ask me why I came Japan (to me this question is rude and I will not answer because it is none of their business unless they are a customs agent at the airport). When people confront me at train stations and shops I tend to tell them in Japanese that I do not speak English (note* I don say I can't, I say I don't. -- that's not a lie! My usual line is - すみません、英語を話さないんですが。) they often give me a look of great disappointment but I can spare myself the awkward and uncomfortable banter and get on with my business. It is not ideal but it relieves any more unnecessary stress in my life. I was friends with many international students and had many foreign acquaintances and I never did any of these things to them. I was always respectful, and I require nothing less than common courtesy and respectful discourse.


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## jojo

expatpharmd said:


> Because there's literally no one worth making friends with or dating in this country. Americans are completely generic and dime-a-dozen. There's a reason why they're all the same no matter where I go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm impressive enough that every single American I meet has an unhealthy obsession with making me into one of them and absorbing me into their lives. America's problem is that it's so worthless that I have no reason to accept their worthless relationships with the worthless people everyone keeps trying to set me up with. If Americans want me to accept them, the last thing they should be doing is exhibiting the very traits which I despise. It's like going to a job interview and purposely failing it. It's ****ing stupid. The only thing impressive about Americans is their ability to be generic, dime-a-dozen, and not special.


How do you know that this attitude and people arent the same in other countries??? It does sound to me as though you're trying to escape humanity rather than one particular nation??? So go easy on your derisions - from what I've seen, humans are the same the world over. 

:focus:


Jo xxx


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## Rube

nemurigusuri said:


> I am coming up on my first year in Japan and the honeymoon period wore off about 3 months in. I think living with the in-laws had a lot to do with it. In my opinion Japan is a fun place to shop, vacation, eat, and drink. But the living is not as easy as it was back in the States. I speak fluent Japanese but I still get treated unfairly here and many people do not want me to speak Japanese to them. Almost every time I meet a new person they ask me to teach them English. They make assumptions that I am either an English teacher or a College Student (I am neither). They make crazy assumptions about my lifestyle like I only want to eat hamburgers and drink coca cola all day long (I am a vegetarian, I don't drink Soda, and I am well acclimated to Japanese food), that I always wear shoes in my house (I rarely did that in the states because it is uncomfortable), that I hate green tea(I am actually a student of Japanese Tea ceremony), and that I want to drink coffee every morning(I don't drink coffee), etc. After a while it has started to get under my skin to the point where I am completely annoyed with meeting new people who are Japanese because I don't want to deal with them projecting their stereotypes on me and/or trying to get in some free English practice. People say "When in Rome..." but when the "Romans" are either handling you with gaijin-gloves or pretending you don't exist. It gets a little chafey. As a female here I am put in very awkward situations from time to time with other foreign men because Japanese people (who don't know me very well) assume I want to date a white foreign guy (I AM MARRIED!!).


lol, stereo types are silly but it cuts both ways. Think of all the silly stereo types westerners have of Japan. One time I was asked to give a speech on American culture in front of teachers and they prepared questions for the Q&A time at the end. All kinds of crazy stuff like how many guns do I own and so on. 

It is harder to meet interesting people here at least for me. Let's face it, most people are content to watch geinojins stuff their face and say anything is delicious. It's hard and takes time but you'll meet quality people.


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## jojo

:focus::focus: to continue the USA v Japan conversation, http://www.expatforum.com/expats/japan-expat-forum-expats-living-japan/105499-usa-v-japan.html

Jo xxx


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## nemurigusuri

Rube said:


> lol, stereo types are silly but it cuts both ways. Think of all the silly stereo types westerners have of Japan. One time I was asked to give a speech on American culture in front of teachers and they prepared questions for the Q&A time at the end. All kinds of crazy stuff like how many guns do I own and so on.
> 
> It is harder to meet interesting people here at least for me. Let's face it, most people are content to watch geinojins stuff their face and say anything is delicious. It's hard and takes time but you'll meet quality people.


I know exactly what you mean! But even if Americans have stereotypes of everybody else(were all human after all) it still gets under my skin and there has to be a way for me to live a life as normal as possible here. If not for me then for my family. My partner wants us to raise our family here in his country and I wanted to raise our family in mine but we agreed on living here. If that means I have to screen people I come into social contact with to feel comfortable, then so be it. It is not the ideal situation because I am by nature a friendly and social person. Living here for me that is the name of the game. 

At the very least I am not a total a$$hole when I come into contact with other foreigners and treat them like they are the scum of the earth like I have seen. If you even happen to look in their direction they stick their noses up in the air make this face of total disgust like "How dare you look at me ******?!" But to be fair most of these people were the basement dwellers who spent their self loathing days eating hot pockets, watching Dragon Ball, Fapping to Sailor Moon, and playing Warcraft. Kind of like like Expatpharmd.


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## larabell

With very few exceptions, most of the people I've met since I've been here already are "quality" people. Yeah... I still get asked the occasional inane question but better asked and answered than having someone make assumptions based on some malarkey they heard when they were kids. For example, it used annoy me when one of the first questions someone would ask was: "How old are you?" because I was raised in a culture where that was considered private information. But as I gained experience, I realized that the Japanese ask each other that same question all the time. So in being asked, I actually was being treated as a "normal" person. It still annoys me, of course, but I realized that the annoyance has nothing to do with the other person and everything to do with my own expectations.

You're living in a different culture. There will always be things that people do here that will seem annoying. If you remember that in almost all cases the annoyance is based on your own expectations and that the locals aren't somehow conspiring to make your life miserable, you can get past those pimple issues and enjoy people for the qualities that they bring to the experience.

Sure... there are people who are prejudiced against non-Japanese just as there are people like that in your own culture. You eventually learn to recognize them and avoid them. In a nation with so many people, it's not hard to find people who are genuinely interested in real conversation -- but part of that is helping them discover who you really are, as opposed to the image in their heads and, to get there, you may have to suffer the occasional inane question. It's all part of the same inter-cultural package... you can't have one without the other.


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## nemurigusuri

larabell said:


> With very few exceptions, most of the people I've met since I've been here already are "quality" people. Yeah... I still get asked the occasional inane question but better asked and answered than having someone make assumptions based on some malarkey they heard when they were kids. For example, it used annoy me when one of the first questions someone would ask was: "How old are you?" because I was raised in a culture where that was considered private information. But as I gained experience, I realized that the Japanese ask each other that same question all the time. So in being asked, I actually was being treated as a "normal" person. It still annoys me, of course, but I realized that the annoyance has nothing to do with the other person and everything to do with my own expectations.
> 
> You're living in a different culture. There will always be things that people do here that will seem annoying. If you remember that in almost all cases the annoyance is based on your own expectations and that the locals aren't somehow conspiring to make your life miserable, you can get past those pimple issues and enjoy people for the qualities that they bring to the experience.
> 
> Sure... there are people who are prejudiced against non-Japanese just as there are people like that in your own culture. You eventually learn to recognize them and avoid them. In a nation with so many people, it's not hard to find people who are genuinely interested in real conversation -- but part of that is helping them discover who you really are, as opposed to the image in their heads and, to get there, you may have to suffer the occasional inane question. It's all part of the same inter-cultural package... you can't have one without the other.


I understand where you are coming from and I respect your view. I also understand that my opinions may change but as for now I have to do what I truly feel is best for my own sanity for lack of a better word. So far this is the only way I have been able to keep the peace and not formulate an unhealthy resentments or neurosis (like certain disillusioned weeaboos who think Japan is a Perfect Kawaii Utopia *cough*expatpharmd*cough*). Because contrary to what some people may think. Japanese people do approach and try to make vacuous monotinous small talk with you ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE FOREIGN. This includes your neighbors and co-workers who will always single you out and refer to you as the gaijin. You will never be anybody's friend. You will always be their gaijin friend. I don't like it but it is something I do understand. People even this morning (a Japanese woman who teaches English) sat right next to me on the train and with no reserve asked me "How long have you been in Japan?" In English. No greeting and no Introduction. This bothered me because this is none of her concern and maybe she was just trying to be cool and casual I don't know. Or maybe I just have that "Hey I'm a bubbly friendly 20-something blue dough-eyed white girl TALK TO ME!!" look on my face that provokes constant confrontation with curious natives. Or maybe it is simply because I am a foreigner and they are compelled to try and "welcome" me. I don't know but it gets stale fast. I simply don't have the patience. Long story short I gave her my one liner and politely said "Sorry I don't speak English." and she immediately shut down, pulled out her phone, and ignored me till I got off of the train. This happens to me literally on a daily basis. Eh. Oh well.


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## expatpharmd

I'm an ass to others because they're an ass to me. Forcing unwanted friendship into my life with people I don't want or need is something I despise. How would you feel if people you don't want in your life constantly try to force their way in? Why the hell should I make friends with or date anybody I don't like?

What larabell said about expectations is true. I expect people to keep to themselves but that obviously doesn't happen in America. Which is why moving to a country where people prefer not to talk to strangers is ideal.


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## nemurigusuri

expatpharmd said:


> I'm an ass to others because they're an ass to me.


I am willing to bet you are an ass because you are just as ass. Don't blame others for your crazy neurosis. 



expatpharmd said:


> Forcing unwanted friendship into my life with people I don't want or need is something I despise. How would you feel if people you don't want in your life constantly try to force their way in?


That happens to me on a daily basis since I moved here to JAPAN. And I do not like it. If this is what you are trying to avoid I suggest you move to a Forest or live in a cave. You sure as hell aren't going to get away from that here. The unwanted attention you will have to deal with is exponential to the attention you get in your own country. 



expatpharmd said:


> Why the hell should I make friends with or date anybody I don't like?


If it makes you feel any better. I don't want to be your friend or date you. Now that you feel better, you can check that one off of your list.



expatpharmd said:


> What larabell said about expectations is true. I expect people to keep to themselves but that obviously doesn't happen in America.


Or in JAPAN Mr. Unrealistic-Steretype-Of-Japanese-Society.



expatpharmd said:


> Which is why moving to a country where people prefer not to talk to strangers is ideal.


Happened to me this morning on the train. Also happens to me on almost a daily basis like clockwork at the grocery store, train station, bank, post office, softbank store, at the corner cafe, family restaurants, the library.. You name it and a stranger has approached me and tried to make ENGLISH CONVERSATION with me. I AM NOT AN ENGLISH TEACHER. And even if I was. I would not be giving it away for free. You will deal with people asking these basic questions to you every time you leave your home. "How long have you been in Japan?", "Where are you from?", "Oh your Japanese is so good!", "I am studying English. Please speak English to me!", "What is your name?", "Do you like Japanese food?". I am thinking of printing out an FAQ card and handing it out to people who approach me. That might make things easier.

Have you even seriously lived here for an extended period of time before? Seems doubtful.


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## expatpharmd

nemurigusuri said:


> I am willing to bet you are an ass because you are just as ass. Don't blame others for your crazy neurosis.


And yet the people who never attempt to force unnecessary friendship in my life have no issue with me.





> That happens to me on a daily basis since I moved here to JAPAN. And I do not like it. If this is what you are trying to avoid I suggest you move to a Forest or live in a cave. You sure as hell aren't going to get away from that here. The unwanted attention you will have to deal with is exponential to the attention you get in your own country.


That remains to be seen for ME. Your experiences are yours. I'll have to live there myself to get first hand experience. I am not you, which means I won't have the same effect on people that you do. And if Japan doesn't work out for me, I already have alternative options to explore.





> If it makes you feel any better. I don't want to be your friend or date you. Now that you feel better, you can check that one off of your list.


You were never on "the list" to begin with.





> Or in JAPAN Mr. Unrealistic-Steretype-Of-Japanese-Society.
> 
> 
> 
> Happened to me this morning on the train. Also happens to me on almost a daily basis like clockwork at the grocery store, train station, bank, post office, softbank store, at the corner cafe, family restaurants, the library.. You name it and a stranger has approached me and tried to make ENGLISH CONVERSATION with me. I AM NOT AN ENGLISH TEACHER. And even if I was. I would not be giving it away for free. You will deal with people asking these basic questions to you every time you leave your home. "How long have you been in Japan?", "Where are you from?", "Oh your Japanese is so good!", "I am studying English. Please speak English to me!", "What is your name?", "Do you like Japanese food?". I am thinking of printing out an FAQ card and handing it out to people who approach me. That might make things easier.
> 
> Have you even seriously lived here for an extended period of time before? Seems doubtful.


And your experiences are YOUR experiences. This is why I intend to live there for awhile to see for myself. I am not you. Which means I won't have the same effect on people that you do. You said so yourself that you're naturally friendly. I'm not. For me, being friendly is a job. Only a total nutcase would look at me and see a friendly person that wants lots of social interaction.


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## nemurigusuri

expatpharmd said:


> And yet the people who never attempt to force unnecessary friendship in my life have no issue with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That remains to be seen for ME. Your experiences are yours. I'll have to live there myself to get first hand experience. I am not you, which means I won't have the same effect on people that you do. And if Japan doesn't work out for me, I already have alternative options to explore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were never on "the list" to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And your experiences are YOUR experiences. This is why I intend to live there for awhile to see for myself. I am not you. Which means I won't have the same effect on people that you do. You said so yourself that you're naturally friendly. I'm not. For me, being friendly is a job. Only a total nutcase would look at me and see a friendly person that wants lots of social interaction.


I may be naturally friendly, but I am also a private person. I relish my privacy and anonymity. I do not look at or make eye contact with people I do not know. I keep to myself. Yet it doesn't faze many Japanese people from approaching me.

I am a bit confused by your presence here in the first place. Expatforum is obviously a place for Americans who live elsewhere. But if you hate us so much, one would think it logical to steer clear of this place at all costs. It makes no sense. Unless you are here to annoy us. In which case-- job well done! Nothing is more irritating than the blathering of a self loathing weeaboo with an nationality-identity crisis. Why don't you go on a message board for people who dream of becoming Asian like yourself. Go to a salon and get a Japanese looking haircut. Go buy clothing that looks like something a guy from a Johnny's Junior boy band would wear. Eat copious amounts of rice morning noon and night. Do whatever it is you have to do to make yourself forget that you are not Asian. Unlike the States you can not naturalize here (even with permanent residency). You will never be Japanese. The only way that could happen is if after you die and are then reincarnated as a Japanese person.


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## expatpharmd

nemurigusuri said:


> I may be naturally friendly, but I am also a private person. I relish my privacy and anonymity. I do not look at or make eye contact with people I do not know. I keep to myself. Yet it doesn't faze many Japanese people from approaching me.


Then you just look friendly.




> I am a bit confused by your presence here in the first place. Expatforum is obviously a place for Americans who live elsewhere.


You don't have to be from America to be an expatriate. Someone who abandons Canada for Italy would be considered an expatriate.




> But if you hate us so much, one would think it logical to steer clear of this place at all costs. It makes no sense. Unless you are here to annoy us. In which case-- job well done! Nothing is more irritating than the blathering of a self loathing weeaboo with an nationality-identity crisis. Why don't you go on a message board for people who dream of becoming Asian like yourself. Go to a salon and get a Japanese looking haircut. Go buy clothing that looks like something a guy from a Johnny's Junior boy band would wear. Eat copious amounts of rice morning noon and night. Do whatever it is you have to do to make yourself forget that you are not Asian. Unlike the States you can not naturalize here (even with permanent residency). You will never be Japanese. The only way that could happen is if after you die and are then reincarnated as a Japanese person.


I have no intention of "becoming Japanese". I never saw any need to be a part of another group before, and I sure as hell don't see any need now. It's not my intention to "become Japanese". My intention is to find a little corner of the world where I can make my dream life come true. I intend to stay true to myself and my dream. I will not change for anybody or anything, and if Japan is not the place where I can live my dream life I already have other potential sites lined up for assessment. But nothing will stop me from trying Japan out first. The fact that the people that are against me living my dream life are trying so hard to dissuade me from going tells me that I need to live in Japan for awhile to see if its a good fit for me. At the very least, I'll have first hand experience of living in Japan.


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## jojo

Thread closed as its now being dragged to far off topic. expatpharmd, if you wish continue trolling and flame throwing, do it on the other thread I provided or start a new one. I do think that you are proving by continuing your self assassination that you should really have a think about your strange ideas about your kinsmen


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