# Taking a low-paying job to get a foot in the Dubai job market



## Minddrift (Apr 1, 2016)

Hi all,

I'm currently considering moving to the UAE. After having spent two months looking a job, I've recently got an offer from one of the small companies in Dubai. The pay is much lower than I hoped for, but I was thinking I could use this opportunity as a way to get settled in Dubai and network my way into a better job, perhaps in a year from now.

Do you think this is a good idea? Does the fact I'm based in Dubai improve my career prospects, or is the visa process so easy that employers don't prioritize local candidates?

Thank you for shedding some light on this matter.

PS: The salary is enough for me to support myself, but not enough to make any valuable savings.


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## LewsTT (Dec 7, 2015)

Local experience matters a lot here, as does being physically present in the country when you are applying for jobs. So yes, if you think you can sustain yourself on that salary for a year or two than it might be worth it. 

Of course selling yourself low etc is an altogether different matter. I suppose you have done enough research to know what the minimum starting salary for someone in your profession with zero local experience should be. Also take into account future prospects for your profession/industry. Remember its tough times in the GCC right now. 

So there's a lot to think about, eventually only you know whats right under the circumstances. In short, if you think the offer is not too bad for someone with your profile and there's reasonable chances of you finding a better job here a year from now then it might be worth it.


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## Racing_Goats (Sep 5, 2015)

It's worth checking if your offer is for a limited or unlimited contract and looking over the UAE Labour law, there are different rules related to changing job after different periods of time - based on contract, salary, immigration and ministry of labour rules and your employers approach to HR..


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## LewsTT (Dec 7, 2015)

Yeah good point. Make sure you carefully read the contract and look out for terms which the employer could use to stop you from leaving or impose an employment ban etc. Apparently things have gotten better in this regard after the new labour law but be careful still. There are a lot of shoddy employers here.


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## Balla Boy (Jan 3, 2015)

It will be easier to get the next role, but don't be too optimistic about getting a dramatic rise in salary. It's reasonably difficult to work your way back up the salary scale if you take a cut. Your next employer is going to be pretty reluctant to give you more than a 20% increase on your base.


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## Minddrift (Apr 1, 2016)

Thank you for your replies. To my knowledge, once your contract ends, you have to wait for 6 months before you can take up another job (unless your employer signs a non-objection letter) Is that correct?

Balls Boy, I see your point but why would I have to reveal my salary history in the first place? When asked about my income, I usually try divert the question by telling them about my target salary instead.


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## Durise (Mar 1, 2016)

For now I think this job is okay for you. Since the salary is good enough to cover your expenses. Keep looking for better job opportunities.


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## Horus_88 (Mar 11, 2014)

Minddrift said:


> Thank you for your replies. To my knowledge, once your contract ends, you have to wait for 6 months before you can take up another job (unless your employer signs a non-objection letter) Is that correct?


Not anymore, I remember in 2012 it was like this and was like if you resign before staying for 2 years with your company , Ministry of Labour (if LLC company) will impose a 6-month ban unless you get a job of certain salary but starting 2016 every body is free to leave / change sponsorship, just be careful with your offer letter too, cause _I heard_ its now legally-binding and employers are submitting it to the Ministry of Labour, hope someone can correct me or confirm .


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## Minddrift (Apr 1, 2016)

By the way, are most companies currently on a hiring freeze, or is this not the right time to apply for a job? There are very few jobs advertised on Linkedin and company websites.


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## Balla Boy (Jan 3, 2015)

Minddrift said:


> Thank you for your replies. To my knowledge, once your contract ends, you have to wait for 6 months before you can take up another job (unless your employer signs a non-objection letter) Is that correct?
> 
> Balls Boy, I see your point but why would I have to reveal my salary history in the first place? When asked about my income, I usually try divert the question by telling them about my target salary instead.




If they allow themselves to be diverted like that, then they either don't care (in which case you're in luck) or they're a bit dim. 

Your current salary is a starting point for any salary negotiation and (whether it suits your current planning or not) is the guide price for your value in the market. 

I work as a headhunter, and when people tell me what they'd like to earn, I generally think "That's great. I'd like to earn more too. Now what do you actually earn?"

I wouldn't enter into a salary negotiation with someone who wouldn't declare their current income.


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## T'challa_Udaku (Nov 14, 2014)

Balla Boy said:


> If they allow themselves to be diverted like that, then they either don't care (in which case you're in luck) or they're a bit dim.
> 
> Your current salary is a starting point for any salary negotiation and (whether it suits your current planning or not) is the guide price for your value in the market.
> 
> ...


On a separate note, and as a headhunter, how would you know if I inflated my current income say from 10k a month to 30k a month?


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## Stevesolar (Dec 21, 2012)

T'challa_Udaku said:


> On a separate note, and as a headhunter, how would you know if I inflated my current income say from 10k a month to 30k a month?


Agreed - your current income should have no bearing (and is no business of) a future employer.
It is all about what you can bring to the new company and the value that this has to them.


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## Minddrift (Apr 1, 2016)

How do you prove the figure they stayed is accurate? Do you ask for a salary certificate?
Most companies are reluctant to give away such information.
They consider it confidential.

I've only been asked once about what I'm currently earning. Most HR managers ask about my salary expectations.
I find it a bit hypocritical for companies to ask you to be honest, when they are not willing to the reveal the salary range for their position.


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## Balla Boy (Jan 3, 2015)

I'm not sure why it would be hypocritical. You're looking for a job, and the person employing you has a responsibility to their business not to over pay you. And over paying you means offering significantly more than that salary you'd be willing to do the job for.

Either way, they don't have a way of verifying unless they request proof of earnings (which some will for sales related roles - I've been asked to produce my P60 in the uk). But if you're dealing with as specialist in that field they'll know. I could tell most people I meet in the industry that I work with what they earn within about a 20% margin of error. 

You're under no obligation to disclose, obviously. But I'd interpret that as an automatic indicator that you're not earning as much as those that will and know that you're reaching for a far bigger package.

I probably interview about 150 board level directors a year. I could count on one hand the number who won't give me a comprehensive breakdown of their package, including bonuses, stock options etc. Their priority is making sure that I'm not wasting their time and can secure them a package that would work for them.


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## Mambo21 (Mar 19, 2016)

Balla Boy said:


> I'm not sure why it would be hypocritical. You're looking for a job, and the person employing you has a responsibility to their business not to over pay you. And over paying you means offering significantly more than that salary you'd be willing to do the job for.
> 
> Either way, they don't have a way of verifying unless they request proof of earnings (which some will for sales related roles - I've been asked to produce my P60 in the uk). But if you're dealing with as specialist in that field they'll know. I could tell most people I meet in the industry that I work with what they earn within about a 20% margin of error.
> 
> ...




I agree. It doesn't mean it's fair or right, but most companies would work from your existing package as a starting point. Your existing company knows what you're worth and should be paying you accordingly. What you would like to earn is what you think you're worth to a future employer. So both should be taken as points of reference for any potential employer to work out an offer.


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## LewsTT (Dec 7, 2015)

You're not necessarily overpaying someone if you pay them significantly more than their previous employers. Its possible they were being underpaid previously and we know this happens in Dubai. 

Basing the pay on previous salary is just lazy, and I dont think companies that do that should complain when a year later someone else picks up the same guy by offering 10% more. You're contributing towards that sort of market then.


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## Balla Boy (Jan 3, 2015)

You're not overpaying them if you pay more than their last company. But you are overpaying them if you're paying them a larger figure than they'd have been willing to work for. 5/10% doesn't make much odds, but if you're paying a guy 50% more than you could have secured him for that's not a lack of laziness - it's poor financial discipline and bad business management.


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## LewsTT (Dec 7, 2015)

Balla Boy said:


> You're not overpaying them if you pay more than their last company. But you are overpaying them if you're paying them a larger figure than they'd have been willing to work for. 5/10% doesn't make much odds, but if you're paying a guy 50% more than you could have secured him for that's not a lack of laziness - it's poor financial discipline and bad business management.


Completely disagree. If the previous company is paying 30% less than what you know most people of that profile are getting in the region, and you pay only marginally more than you are also underpaying. I find it strange having to explain this to an HR professional. 

Yeah I get the logic. Its a cut throat world, your boss will appreciate you securing someone for less amount. Your bonuses will be linked to it. I wont go so far as to call it immoral, but its not strictly fair either. We take advantage of people from 3rd world countries often desperate for jobs. You can call that financial discipline or whatever. I get thats how the world works. But lets not sit on our high horse and pretend its perfectly fine. 

What I find ironic and hypocritical is recruiters and employers complaining about employees leaving in a year or two for better money. I mean, if its all about money and financial discipline then why shoudnt the employee do the same?


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## Balla Boy (Jan 3, 2015)

I don't employ any desperate people from the third world, and the candidates I deal with are all on 60,000 a month plus as a minimum. So I think we're talking about quite different job markets.

I think that people should earn as much as they can extract. But I think they're foolish if they think that they can expect to extract huge salary increases and that the company they're moving too won't look to their current earning as a benchmark.

Industry standard is about a 20% uplift on moving. If you get 30% you've done well. Above that, you're negotiating with someone who you don't want to work for.

And don't worry - you're not explaining anything. If jobs are way below market level they won't get filled. If you can get the right skills at a particular rate, then that's the market rate.


It's not about impressing your boss or earning bonuses. It's about the sort of commercial and financial discipline that keeps companies sustainable and profitable, and keeps all of their employees in jobs. Profligacy is bad for everyone, even (in the long run) for the guy who thinks he's making out like a bandit.


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## LewsTT (Dec 7, 2015)

Yup, very different market. Your points probably hold true for the level of people you're employing. 

There's a very different side to Dubai though, for entry level and mid tier professionals and those are the ones Im referring to.


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## LewsTT (Dec 7, 2015)

As for what constitutes 'market rate' as an accountant my idea of that is probably quite different from yours so lets leave it at that.


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## Balla Boy (Jan 3, 2015)

Fair enough. I've no sympathy at all with businesses trying to drive low earning workers into the ground, and at that level there are both moral and business arguments for a business to forego profit to protect the wellbeing of its people (though it may not have come through here, I'm generally pretty left leaning).

I was talking solely about the salary negotiations of experienced, well rewarded people.

And as I said - best of luck to anyone in getting as much as they can. To go back to the original point, I was just trying to caution the original poster that his "foot in the door" strategy to get into the local market could leave him in a bit of a bind in terms of long term earnings.


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## Fat Bhoy Tim (Feb 28, 2013)

Balla Boy said:


> I wouldn't enter into a salary negotiation with someone who wouldn't declare their current income.


And I don't deal with recruiters that want to know what I currently earn, as it has no bearing on whatever the role being discussed is worth. 

More than a few times I've had recruiters - to their credit, upfront and honestly - say their client expects this, and I always decline to continue. Usually Arab or Asian firms (but I do generalise) which doesn't surprise me.


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## Balla Boy (Jan 3, 2015)

As I said, I deal with 150 plus board level candidates a year, and virtually no one refuses to disclose their package. It may be far more common in mid-market, but for a c-suite ,-1 or even -2 role disclosure is the price of entry.

It's in no way restricted to local or Indian businesses either. I spent 15 years doing board search in the UK, and it's completely expected right across Europe. 

Refusal to disclose is taken as a a sign that you're talking to someone who's not senior enough for the role, as the assumption is that the motive for non-disclosure is that their package is too low to be negotiated up to the rate we're looking at.

For clarity, we give total disclosure about the package on offer at the same time, and if we genuinely believe there's a case for it will argue to our client that they should go to that mark for the candidate (the case being that they could, for whatever reason, command that elsewhere even though they're not earning it now). 

Generally, there's not much messing around with salaries at the level we work. People know what they're worth, and are generally being paid it already.


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## kavita74 (Mar 13, 2014)

Pls do not go for under paying jobs.
Here the salary at the time of change is linked to your last drawn. 99% of the times. 

If it can help, would share my experience. I am an engineering graduate and have masters in management. But most of the times, I have been employed here. Or to put it his way, preferred not to work. 
I worked for low paying salaries thinking that once i gain local experience, it would be easier to demand a fair wage. Even worked without any labour card also just to be employed assuming that would improve my chances for a better job. But when that moment comes, and you demand a respectable salary, the employer won't pay. Simply because he is not getting the advantage of a low salaried qualified worker. If you could let someone elae take that advantage, they also expect to continue to reap the same benefit. And if you are not willing for that, why should they hire you? 
People may have their views about it. But my reason is simple- I am not open for exploitation. I am better at home than doing charity for these millionaires. Not being paid what you are worth and the kind of work being demanded, is like a charity i believe. And i have had my enough share of it. 

Have not received tens of thousands of dirhams of my salary and other dues just because I compromised to the point of working without contract and labour card. Reason- to be in the market and employed. 
Worked for an acquaintance for his start-up after his repeated requests for a very low salary. But at the end of the day, a businessman is a businessman. Relations come much later for them. 

So think well before you accept any low paying offer just for the sake of getting a foothold. Things may or may not work as you assume or would prefer them. Be ready to face the consequences in case it doesn't. 

To think positive is good. But be aware of the negatives as well.

All the best for your future and may you take a well informed decision.


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## Fat Bhoy Tim (Feb 28, 2013)

Balla Boy said:


> As I said, I deal with 150 plus board level candidates a year, and virtually no one refuses to disclose their package. It may be far more common in mid-market, but for a c-suite ,-1 or even -2 role disclosure is the price of entry.
> 
> Refusal to disclose is taken as a a sign that you're talking to someone who's not senior enough for the role, as the assumption is that the motive for non-disclosure is that their package is too low to be negotiated up to the rate we're looking at.


You have your biases and I have mine. A role is worth what a role is worth, but you're on is irrelevant unless you're going above-and-beyond to secure the candidate. 

The vast majority of the time it's offering different packages for the same role, based on the candidate's current package. I know this because I work in an industry and firm regularly head-hunted from, and my colleagues will receive the same calls and be given different package ranges depending on their answers.


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## Balla Boy (Jan 3, 2015)

I don't hold with the practices of most recruiters - there's a reason that those of us who work board level do so for a reason. The rest of the industry is largely unspeakable. 

If several of your colleagues are receiving calls about the same role, then I wouldn't consider the people approaching them to be headhunters. They're rec cons. I wouldn't employ them, and I have sympathy with anyone who has to deal with them.


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## Minddrift (Apr 1, 2016)

Balla boy, if you're dealing with candidates who make 60,000 AED month then they must be CEOs or something.
I wouldn't mind disclosing my last salary if it was 60,000 AED month. I would use it as leverage 

In the marketing field, I know there's a salary range for every position, based on what I hear and salary surveys published by recruiters. I usually try to push for a figure towards the end of the range.


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## Fat Bhoy Tim (Feb 28, 2013)

Balla Boy said:


> I don't hold with the practices of most recruiters - there's a reason that those of us who work board level do so for a reason. The rest of the industry is largely unspeakable.
> 
> If several of your colleagues are receiving calls about the same role, then I wouldn't consider the people approaching them to be headhunters. They're rec cons. I wouldn't employ them, and I have sympathy with anyone who has to deal with them.


I wouldn't consider a headhunter to just be recruiting for the c-suite level, although it's usually geared to it I admit.


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

So your remit is to employ people on as low a salary as possible? 

Given the sheer amount of jokers here, punching so above their weight they're taking on elephants - it looks like recruiters are as hopeless as everyone else then.

(PS Bad day! )


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## LewsTT (Dec 7, 2015)

kavita74 said:


> Pls do not go for under paying jobs.
> Here the salary at the time of change is linked to your last drawn. 99% of the times.
> 
> If it can help, would share my experience. I am an engineering graduate and have masters in management. But most of the times, I have been employed here. Or to put it his way, preferred not to work.
> ...


Yeah you should be reasonable. If you know most people with your profile are picking up around 12k and you accept 10 because you need the money. Then it seems alright and with a year or two of experience you'll have the chance to negotiate a better pay with your employer or look elsewhere. But if you accept 3 or 4k then you're just being plain silly. 

Doing anything illegal such as working without a contract should be a no go no matter what. You're just harming yourself.


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## LewsTT (Dec 7, 2015)

Mr Rossi said:


> So your remit is to employ people on as low a salary as possible?
> 
> Given the sheer amount of jokers here, punching so above their weight they're taking on elephants - it looks like recruiters are as hopeless as everyone else then.
> 
> (PS Bad day! )


That was the impression I got initially too, but to be fair to him he seems to be working within a niche where this may be a bit more acceptable.


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## Racing_Goats (Sep 5, 2015)

LewsTT said:


> That was the impression I got initially too, but to be fair to him he seems to be working within a niche where this may be a bit more acceptable.


Surely as with any job there's a requirement to get the best deal, save costs/work efficiently and effectively or deliver the best service for your employer and/or clients, in good time and to spec. don't see why anyone would expect otherwise in any professional field..


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## LewsTT (Dec 7, 2015)

Racing_Goats said:


> Surely as with any job there's a requirement to get the best deal, save costs/work efficiently and effectively or deliver the best service for your employer and/or clients, in good time and to spec. don't see why anyone would expect otherwise in any professional field..


Erm yes but its not as simple..

Like I said before, low pay not only means dissatisfied employees but also that you'll be hiring pretty soon again when they leave in a year. Some firms here have tried to counter act that by having clauses such as a fine equal to 3 months salary if you leave before 3 years etc etc. Its quite pathetic frankly. 

High turnover is so common for mid level professional level jobs here. I dont think its very efficient or effective from the employers point of view. But hey if they seem happy with it what can I say...


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## Mr Rossi (May 16, 2009)

LewsTT said:


> High turnover is so common for mid level professional level jobs here. I dont think its very efficient or effective from the employers point of view. But hey if they seem happy with it what can I say...


When I was a kid, the wealthiest people in my town where the trade businesses - plumbers, mechanics, electricians etc. What made them rich was down to two things 1) Keeping key customers happy so they kept giving them returning business/recommendations and 2) A capable workforce that they took a long term view towards.

30 years on and I don't see how there's much deviation from that. 80% of income will come from 20% of clients and good personal are worth their salary ten fold.

Both theories totally at odds with "doing the good business"


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## Balla Boy (Jan 3, 2015)

Minddrift said:


> Balla boy, if you're dealing with candidates who make 60,000 AED month then they must be CEOs or something.
> I wouldn't mind disclosing my last salary if it was 60,000 AED month. I would use it as leverage
> 
> 
> ...



60,000 is about Director/VP level depending on industry. The upper end of salaries that we deal with here are 150-180,000 a month, some as high as 2-300,000. 

As you say, people at that level will put their salary up front pretty quickly to make their value to their current organisation lead, and to ensure that you're not wasting their time.


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## Balla Boy (Jan 3, 2015)

Mr Rossi said:


> So your remit is to employ people on as low a salary as possible?
> 
> Given the sheer amount of jokers here, punching so above their weight they're taking on elephants - it looks like recruiters are as hopeless as everyone else then.
> 
> ...




No - my remit is to ensure that my client doesn't get taken to the cleaners, while securing them the best talent available at the price that they can pay.


For most professional roles, there's a floor that no one is going to go below. No one is getting robbed or forced into a job at gunpoint.

It's very rarely an issue. I've only once in twenty years had to go back to someone with an offer that was lower than their current base, and that was because they were moving into a role with a charity.

And most recruiters have fees that are based on a percentage of the candidate's salary. They're not incentivized to knock candidates down on reasonable expectations.


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## Fat Bhoy Tim (Feb 28, 2013)

And who drives the top of the range?

Perhaps more pertinently, are you on a fixed-free retainer or a salary-based commission?


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## Balla Boy (Jan 3, 2015)

Fat Bhoy Tim said:


> And who drives the top of the range?
> 
> Perhaps more pertinently, are you on a fixed-free retainer or a salary-based commission?




Most retained models are based on a percentage of projected salary. Some are fixed fee.


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## LewsTT (Dec 7, 2015)

Mr Rossi said:


> When I was a kid, the wealthiest people in my town where the trade businesses - plumbers, mechanics, electricians etc. What made them rich was down to two things 1) Keeping key customers happy so they kept giving them returning business/recommendations and 2) A capable workforce that they took a long term view towards.
> 
> 30 years on and I don't see how there's much deviation from that. 80% of income will come from 20% of clients and good personal are worth their salary ten fold.
> 
> Both theories totally at odds with "doing the good business"


Yup. Completely agree.

My dad owned a departmental store for about 10 years before selling it. During the initial years we had a few lads doing all the manual labour etc. But they were always treated well and paid fairly. I found it amazing just how much loyalty that instilled. Some of them even went on to become cashiers, bookkeepers and managing inventory etc even though they were not educated in those things at all. 

If your employees believe that the company they work for is 'their company' so to speak, you will reap the benefits long term.


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